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General => General Music Discussion => Topic started by: AcidLameLTE on April 27, 2009, 10:00:57 AM
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Discuss this awesome "80's band" (briang's words, not mine :neverusethis2:) here :hat
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One of my favorite bands ever. I just wish there were more live material from the early (Ozzy) days.
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Do you have any of their DVDs? I've only got The Last Supper and The Black Sabbath Story - Volume 1.
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Just got the first 6 albums a weeks ago.
My God!!!! Black Sabbath fucking owns!!!
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Do you have any of their DVDs? I've only got The Last Supper and The Black Sabbath Story - Volume 1.
I only have The Black Sabbath Story Volume 1, which is an excellent dvd. That performance of War Pigs in Paris KILLS. :metal :metal :metal But that dvd left me hungry for more videos of the old days... when Bill Ward was a beast on drums.
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Do you have any of their DVDs? I've only got The Last Supper and The Black Sabbath Story - Volume 1.
I only have The Black Sabbath Story Volume 1, which is an excellent dvd. That performance of War Pigs in Paris KILLS. :metal :metal :metal But that dvd left me hungry for more videos of the old days... when Bill Ward was a beast on drums.
Bill Ward suprised me a lot! Man he could fucking kill on those early days!
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These guys get too much credit in metal.
The first metal song was obviously "I Wanna Hold Your Hand"
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Great band! My favourite period is definitely the Ozzy era. I have nothing against Dio, but without Ozzy it just wasn't the same band any more. His voice WAS Black Sabbath, for me anyway.
Favourite albums are Paranoid and Sabbath Bloody Sabbath, while Never Say Die! is a really underrated album.
The Last Supper is a great DVD with the original lineup :metal
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I listened to Sabbath Bloody Sabbath this morning. Their best, no doubt. :metal
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I listened to Sabbath Bloody Sabbath this morning. Their best, no doubt. :metal
That and Sabotage are my 2 faves.
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Whilst stuck in MP's forum for the last week I participated in the ultimate Sabbath polls for the first 7 albums. I was amazed that every one of those albums had 2 or 3 songs that were nearly impossible to choose from. No other bands can do that. If I were to go through and pick again, I'd probably wind up with 7 different picks.
The only one that was easy for me was favorite album.
On the edge of the blade, but no one makes the hero bleed.
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Ozzy era..now...
My Top 10 Sabbath tunes:
1.Megalomania
2. Into The Void
3. Spiral Architect
4. Junior’s Eyes
5. Sabbath Bloody Sabbath
6. The Writ
7. Supernaut.
8. NIB
9. Symptom Of The Universe
10. War Pigs
I love the Riunion Live album!
But my fave studio Ozzy era album is definitely Sabotage. I do like Never Say Die. I just do....
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TAC... WHERE IS YOUR MAIDEN AVATAR?!?!
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Definitely one of my favorite bands of all time. The Ozzy era is unparalleled (those first 6 albums are all 10/10 for me). My favorite albums are Sabbath Bloody Sabbath, Master of Reality, Self Titled, Paranoid, Vol. 4, Sabotage and Heaven and Hell. So pretty much the whole of the Ozzy era except for the last 2 and Heaven and Hell.
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briang is silly. Everybody knows that bands who were great in the 70's put out inferior music in the 80's. It's a rule. The corollary of course is that you never refer to such bands as "80's bands" because that's actually an insult to 70's bands. Violators of the rules deserve to be violated.
Anyway, Ozzy era blah blah blah, Dio is great but blah blah blah, Iommi is underrated and his fingers you know blah blah blah.
Sorry, I love the original Sabbath, but it gets tough to come up with new things to say about them. The first five are solid gold. For some reason, though, I broke up with Sabbath after that, and never really checked out Sabotage, which seems to be highly regarded. I should remedy that situation.
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i think it would be cool if they had a tour with all three singers. each full sets
there was a singer after dio named tony martin for thoes who dont know that.
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briang is silly. Everybody knows that bands who were great in the 70's put out inferior music in the 80's. It's a rule.
Rush would like to have a word with you.
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Sabbath are one of the greatest metal bands ever. I've only gotten into the Ozzy and Dio eras, nothing more.
I was actually listening to Symptom of the Universe this morning, wow, what an incredible song.
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briang is silly. Everybody knows that bands who were great in the 70's put out inferior music in the 80's. It's a rule. The corollary of course is that you never refer to such bands as "80's bands" because that's actually an insult to 70's bands. Violators of the rules deserve to be violated.
Anyway, Ozzy era blah blah blah, Dio is great but blah blah blah, Iommi is underrated and his fingers you know blah blah blah.
Sorry, I love the original Sabbath, but it gets tough to come up with new things to say about them. The first five are solid gold. For some reason, though, I broke up with Sabbath after that, and never really checked out Sabotage, which seems to be highly regarded. I should remedy that situation.
Mos def. You might end up loving Sabotage more than those first five.
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briang is silly. Everybody knows that bands who were great in the 70's put out inferior music in the 80's. It's a rule. The corollary of course is that you never refer to such bands as "80's bands" because that's actually an insult to 70's bands. Violators of the rules deserve to be violated.
Anyway, Ozzy era blah blah blah, Dio is great but blah blah blah, Iommi is underrated and his fingers you know blah blah blah.
Sorry, I love the original Sabbath, but it gets tough to come up with new things to say about them. The first five are solid gold. For some reason, though, I broke up with Sabbath after that, and never really checked out Sabotage, which seems to be highly regarded. I should remedy that situation.
Mos def. You might end up loving Sabotage more than those first five.
Indeed. I mentioned earlier having a hard time picking a favorite from each album. Sabotage gave me the hardest time. The Thrill of it All, Megalomania, and the Writ. How can you choose a favorite? Fuck.
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Dio-era owns all other Sabbath eras. The Ozzy stuff is certainly groundbreaking, and I love it, but it's way too overplayed for me.
Tony Martin is incredibly underrated. I wish those 80's albums were still in print. The only one I've got is Eternal Idol.
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Oh yeah, I have an Epiphone Iommi SG. It's pretty good, it's even got the pickups they use in the Gibson model :hat
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Dio-era owns all other Sabbath eras. The Ozzy stuff is certainly groundbreaking, and I love it, but it's way too overplayed for me.
Tony Martin is incredibly underrated. I wish those 80's albums were still in print. The only one I've got is Eternal Idol.
The Ozzy era will ALWAYS be king in my book, the music is just legendary, but I love every other era of the band too, even when it essentially just became Tony Iommi's solo band. I agree that Tony Martin is an underrated singer. The guy could definitely wail, especially on songs like The Shining, or Headless Cross. I keep meaning to check out some of his solo stuff (I think he came out with an album at some point recently).
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Dio-era owns all other Sabbath eras. The Ozzy stuff is certainly groundbreaking, and I love it, but it's way too overplayed for me.
Tony Martin is incredibly underrated. I wish those 80's albums were still in print. The only one I've got is Eternal Idol.
Hey Grapp, good to see you here!!
I was just on Best Buy's website yesterday and they had a couple of the Martin era albums available. I ignored them myself during this time. The last thing I got from them was Seventh Star (the one with Glenn Hughes). I am planning on going back and rediscovering the Martin era.
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Anybody listen to Iommi's solo stuff?
His album "Fused" with Glenn Hughes is amazing :hat
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Anybody listen to Iommi's solo stuff?
His album "Fused" with Glenn Hughes is amazing :hat
I have not. Does Hughes sing on the whole thing,?
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Hell yeah he does.
I really can't recommend Fused enough, it's such a good album. In fact, I'm going to listen to it right now.
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The Ozzy era will ALWAYS be king in my book, the music is just legendary
QFT!
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briang is silly. Everybody knows that bands who were great in the 70's put out inferior music in the 80's. It's a rule.
Rush would like to have a word with you.
We talked about it, and have reached an understanding.
Geddy admits that his lame attempts to play keyboards and add a dimension to their sound that wasn't lacking in the first place wasn't as lame as I make it out to be, and I admitted that it actually does add something, whether it was needed or not. I did point out to him that Oberheim is not the only keyboard manufacturer in the world, and that their synths actually have more than one patch and he said "What? No way!"
Alex explained to me that his penchant for cranking the pre-gain while simultaneously dropping post-gain was all just an attempt to make it harder for budding guitarists to figure out what chords he was playing the first place, and he admits he might have taken it just a bit too far. I told him that he inverts chords like nobody's business and his parts are already impossible to copy anyway and he went "Oh shi-".
Neil of course is perfect, and wouldn't talk to me because, well, he's perfect. I think he was writing a book or something and couldn't be bothered.
We ended up agreeing to disagree, because while we all agreed that Moving Pictures is their best album, it's really an 80's album that came out in the 70's, and that just plain mucked up anything else we could say about it.
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Orbert, I completely agree with you. Thank you very much!
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Butler's tone on Master of Reality kills.
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For some reason, though, I broke up with Sabbath after that, and never really checked out Sabotage, which seems to be highly regarded. I should remedy that situation.
Yes you should! Megalomania is great!
Dio-era owns all other Sabbath eras. The Ozzy stuff is certainly groundbreaking, and I love it, but it's way too overplayed for me.
Tony Martin is incredibly underrated. I wish those 80's albums were still in print. The only one I've got is Eternal Idol.
Hey Grapp, good to see you here!!
I was just on Best Buy's website yesterday and they had a couple of the Martin era albums available. I ignored them myself during this time. The last thing I got from them was Seventh Star (the one with Glenn Hughes). I am planning on going back and rediscovering the Martin era.
I picked up a used copy of the remastered Eternal Idol today. Tony Martin is OUTSTANDING! Really! I completely ignored them in the mid to late 80's.
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Okay, I checked out "side one" of Sabotage on the way home yesterday, and "side two" on the way in to work today.
That some good shit!
I like that there's more of the upbeat stuff, not so much slow heavy BOM BOM BA-DA-BOM! Also, the sound seems more refined or better produced. And "Supertzar" - what the hell was that?! What a crazy track. Choir juxtaposed with electric guitars? I like. I'm glad they didn't stop with the instrumentals and experimental stuff. The occassional acoustic rhythm guitar here and there, Ozzy screaming in head voice (which I'm sure he can't even do anymore), that kind of thing. Gonna give it another spin or two over the next few days, but initial rating is 8/10, with a strong chance of going higher.
Also, I need to revisit Heaven and Hell, which was actually one of the first ones I bought on vinyl, like 100 years ago. I used to really like it, then someone told me it sucked because Dio is so inferior to Ozzy, and I listened to them. Teenagers are so impressionable. In some ways I like Dio better; his voice doesn't bug the fuck out of me like Ozzy's does from overexposure to bad post-Sabbath material. But it's not on my iPod and I know I've got it somewhere. Probably on my external hard drive...
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That's cool that you're diggin Sabotage. That is one my-t-fine album.
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Listened to it again tonight, all the way through. Still good, rating stays at 8/10.
Still have to load Heaven and Hell onto the iPod, but in the meantime I noticed I have Technical Ecstasy. Might as well check that one out next. I always liked the cover, though it's pretty low-tech by today's standards.
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Sabotage is great. Technical Ecstacy not so great. I personally like Never Say Die. Junior's Eyes is in my Top 10.
Also, just had my first listen to Tony Martin yesterday. He is outstanding!!
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I've got everything from the Ozzy era which is easily in my top 3 favorite bands. However, I don't have much other stuff of theirs, just two Dio albums: Heaven and Hell and Mob Rules. I absolutely love Mob Rules but I was never able to get into Heaven and Hell... I should give it another try sometime.
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I'd specifically keep an ear out again for Die Young, the title track, Children Of The Sea, and Lonely Is The Word.
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Listened to most of Technical Ecstasy this morning. I have some mixed feelings so far.
I'm a keyboard player, and used properly, I think keys have the potential to add something to the sound of a band. Dream Theater is a good example of a band that is clearly in the Metal vein, but incorporates synthesizers. Deep Purple had Jon Lord and his suped-up Hammond. But with Black Sabbath, I'm having a little trouble. Yeah, it still sounds like Sabbath, and the Moog on the opening track is cool. But by time they start adding piano, especially too much piano, it might sound okay, but it doesn't sound like Black Sabbath anymore. "You Won't Change Me" is a rather weak song anyway, and I can't help but feel that the piano actually helped weaken it. It reminds me of bad Ozzy solo stuff.
I can't fault them for trying to expand their sound - you can't just keep cranking out the same thing over and over - but there's a difference between showing a different side of the band and just plain putting something out there that doesn't sound like anything else you've ever done. Which song was it that had the rockin' piano? "Rock 'n' Roll Doctor"? Again, not a bad song, but if it wasn't Ozzy singing, I would never have guessed it was Sabbath. "It's Alright" is not a bad song. The acoustic guitar work is nice, and Bill Ward's voice is fine. But again, right there you've got two things that make it not sound anything like Black Sabbath.
Oddly enough, I didn't have trouble with the keys on Sabbath Bloody Sabbath. Probably because they were used more sparingly, and possibly because I'm a Wakeman fanboy and was busy digging what he could do in a very different setting from his usual work with Yes. (I need to listen to that one again too.)
Overall, I can see why die-hards have trouble with this one. It's less consistent and generally has weaker songwriting. But I'm not through it yet, and I guess the closer, "Dirty Women" is supposed to knock my socks off. I'm looking forward to that.
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I love all three of the distinct eras of Sabbath - Ozzy, Dio, and Tony Martin. The only vocalist that did not do it for me was Ian Gillan. As much as I love him with Deep Purple, he was not a good fit for Sabbath.
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Black Sabbath's debut is one of my favourite albums. Last time I made a Top 10 albums list, it snuck in there, I think.
I dunno which I'd like most after that. Perhaps Sabotage.
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I have nothing but pure love for
Black Sabbath
Master of Reality
Paranoid
i could listen to those all day every day as far as im concerned.
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I love all three of the distinct eras of Sabbath - Ozzy, Dio, and Tony Martin. The only vocalist that did not do it for me was Ian Gillan. As much as I love him with Deep Purple, he was not a good fit for Sabbath.
I actually quite liked Sabbath with Ian Gillan on the Born Again album. Too bad he only made that one album with them.
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I love all three of the distinct eras of Sabbath - Ozzy, Dio, and Tony Martin. The only vocalist that did not do it for me was Ian Gillan. As much as I love him with Deep Purple, he was not a good fit for Sabbath.
I actually quite liked Sabbath with Ian Gillan on the Born Again album. Too bad he only made that one album with them.
But Born Again isn't great. A missed opportunity IMO.
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Also, just had my first listen to Tony Martin yesterday. He is outstanding!!
He's awesome. Definitely an underrated vocalist. From the bootlegs I've heard from when he was in the band, he also did a fine job with the Ozzy and Dio material live.
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I love all three of the distinct eras of Sabbath - Ozzy, Dio, and Tony Martin. The only vocalist that did not do it for me was Ian Gillan. As much as I love him with Deep Purple, he was not a good fit for Sabbath.
I actually quite liked Sabbath with Ian Gillan on the Born Again album. Too bad he only made that one album with them.
But Born Again isn't great. A missed opportunity IMO.
Oddly enough, that's why a lot of poeple wanted to hear a second album from that same lineup. Sometimes the first album from a new lineup is shaky, but the second one nails it. They grow into the new sound, the guys learn to work together and write together. Now we'll never know.
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I decided to check out all of the Sabbath stuff that nobody listens to and there's some great stuff there. I never really gave the Tony Martin era a chance, but it's great. Tyr is fantastic, as it turns out. More people should appreciate this.
As for Ian Gillan, I though Born Again was a great album. There was a thread about the best 3 song run, and if it weren't for the two short interludes, Trashed, Disturbing the Priest and Zero the Hero would definitely merit consideration. Side two lags a bit, but the title track is greatness, as well.
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It amazes me that even though there has been a countless number of death and thrash metal bands since Sabbath, I STILL have yet to hear a riff that sounds more evil than Symptom of the Universe.
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Black Sabbath is amazing. That's really all there's to be said. And seeing Ozzy Osbourne perform "Rat Salad" at Ozzfest 2010 was fucking awesome. The whole thing was perfect, including extended guitar and drum solos. As overplayed and well-known as it is, Paranoid is probably my favorite album. You'll be hard-pressed to find many riffs heavier than some on that album (read: "Electric Funeral"). Big fan of Sabbath Bloody Sabbath too, but I've been listening to a lot of Black Sabbath Vol. 4 lately... goddamn they're too good!
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I decided to check out all of the Sabbath stuff that nobody listens to and there's some great stuff there. I never really gave the Tony Martin era a chance, but it's great. Tyr is fantastic, as it turns out. More people should appreciate this.
Absolutely. I thumbed my nose at the Martin era as it was happening. I just wasn't interested. And they played in Boston a number of times, and I never gave it any thought. But those albums, with the exception of Forbidden, are GREAT. I love Cross Purposes probably the most, but Headles Cross, Tyr, and Eternal idol are all outstanding. Has to be the most underrated band going. Tony Martin was outstanding. He does a great Children Of The Sea live.
As for Ian Gillan, I though Born Again was a great album. There was a thread about the best 3 song run, and if it weren't for the two short interludes, Trashed, Disturbing the Priest and Zero the Hero would definitely merit consideration. Side two lags a bit, but the title track is greatness, as well.
Calling this a great album is a bit generous I think. The 3 songs you mentioned are indeed great, but the album has nothing left to offer after those. It's a 7 song album with only 3 remarkable tracks. On a good day, I might consider the title track OK...
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Ozzy performed Rat Salad? That makes no sense. How does a vocalist perform a song that's entirely instrumental?
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El Barto, thanks for resurrecting this thread. I thought I'd killed it.
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Ozzy performed Rat Salad? That makes no sense. How does a vocalist perform a song that's entirely instrumental?
Probably the same way that he takes songs with vocals and slurs them into instrumentals!
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Ozzy performed Rat Salad? That makes no sense. How does a vocalist perform a song that's entirely instrumental?
Probably the same way that he takes songs with vocals and slurs them into instrumentals!
Nice :lol
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Ozzy performed Rat Salad? That makes no sense. How does a vocalist perform a song that's entirely instrumental?
Probably the same way that he takes songs with vocals and slurs them into instrumentals!
:lol
Ozzy performed Rat Salad? That makes no sense. How does a vocalist perform a song that's entirely instrumental?
I wasn't sure how to say it... Ozzy Osbourne would be the act on stage, so I just referred to it as that.
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As for Ian Gillan, I though Born Again was a great album. There was a thread about the best 3 song run, and if it weren't for the two short interludes, Trashed, Disturbing the Priest and Zero the Hero would definitely merit consideration. Side two lags a bit, but the title track is greatness, as well.
Calling this a great album is a bit generous I think. The 3 songs you mentioned are indeed great, but the album has nothing left to offer after those. It's a 7 song album with only 3 remarkable tracks. On a good day, I might consider the title track OK...
Perhaps my wording was off. I wasn't thinking great as in an official status, like a great presidency. However, I do disagree with regards to the title track. I think it's one where Gillan gets to shine.
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As for Ian Gillan, I though Born Again was a great album. There was a thread about the best 3 song run, and if it weren't for the two short interludes, Trashed, Disturbing the Priest and Zero the Hero would definitely merit consideration. Side two lags a bit, but the title track is greatness, as well.
Calling this a great album is a bit generous I think. The 3 songs you mentioned are indeed great, but the album has nothing left to offer after those. It's a 7 song album with only 3 remarkable tracks. On a good day, I might consider the title track OK...
Perhaps my wording was off. I wasn't thinking great as in an official status, like a great presidency. However, I do disagree with regards to the title track. I think it's one where Gillan gets to shine.
Yeah, he's great on that. I just find that the song drags a little bit. Like I said, for me, it just depends on my mood.
But I busted out Tyr for the treadmill tonight. Man, I love Cozy Powell. I liken Tony Martin to a hybrid of Ronnie James Dio and David Coverdale. He really is that good.
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This was just posted on Blabbermouth.
https://www.roadrunnerrecords.com/blabbermouth.net/news.aspx?mode=Article&newsitemID=148736
Something Halford said seems a little off.
So that's why I feel that first SABBATH album for me — much like 'Sad Wings Of Destiny' for JUDAS PRIEST — is a very important release.
wut
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This was just posted on Blabbermouth.
https://www.roadrunnerrecords.com/blabbermouth.net/news.aspx?mode=Article&newsitemID=148736
Something Halford said seems a little off.
So that's why I feel that first SABBATH album for me — much like 'Sad Wings Of Destiny' for JUDAS PRIEST — is a very important release.
wut
You cut the context out of that quote:
"If you look back at the history of your favourite band, generally the first couple are the ones that really kind of grab you. So that's why I feel that first SABBATH album for me — much like 'Sad Wings Of Destiny' for JUDAS PRIEST — is a very important release.
And it's a trip hearing Rob try to sing down to Ozzy's level. I kept expecting to hear him throw one of those screams in there, and it never happened. Really sounded crappy. Much better is hearing rob sing Dio's songs. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y-_P3sS1DHw It's just a shame he didn't do the story part. I'd like to hear him do the burn in fire scream.
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So I'm not the only one here who thinks the Tony Martin era was overlooked? AWESOME! :metal
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He's not omitting Rocka Rolla, just saying that it was an important early work, much like Sabbath's first record.
Yes, Tony Martin is a fantastic vocalist and his contributions to the band should never be overlooked.
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Oh damn. I misread it. Sorry.
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I heard Master Of Reality cranked on the cans last week to hear any buried things too. Honestly it's one of the best albums ever.
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I can't wait to pick up the re-releases of Seventh Star and The Eternal idol. 2 essential Sabbath albums.
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Strangely, 7th Star didn't do much for me. Strange because I really dig Glenn Hughes, but he just never really sounded like himself on that one. I definitely liked Gillan and Martin better in Sabbath.
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Strangely, 7th Star didn't do much for me. Strange because I really dig Glenn Hughes, but he just never really sounded like himself on that one. I definitely liked Gillan and Martin better in Sabbath.
The music is just better on the Martin albums than on Seventh Star.
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I can't wait to pick up the re-releases of Seventh Star and The Eternal idol. 2 essential Sabbath albums.
What's so "re-release" about these albums?
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I can't wait to pick up the re-releases of Seventh Star and The Eternal idol. 2 essential Sabbath albums.
What's so "re-release" about these albums?
https://www.black-sabbath.com/news/2010/09/seventh_star_eternal_idol_pres.html
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I can't wait to pick up the re-releases of Seventh Star and The Eternal idol. 2 essential Sabbath albums.
What's so "re-release" about these albums?
https://www.black-sabbath.com/news/2010/09/seventh_star_eternal_idol_pres.html
Ahh yeah! Those deluxe editions are always a great idea. Some unheard material and whatever else is a great surprise :tup
I have me the Paranoid and Master Of Reality ones so far.
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I haven't bothered to get any of them as yet, but will be getting these. I'm pissed they skipped Born Again, that is one amazing metal album.
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It's in dire need of a remix though.
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It's in dire need of a remix though.
A remixed and remastered Born Again would be bliss!
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So whatever came about with the H&H anniversary DVD? I don't even know what the thing was supposed to be. They kept saying they were working on it, but never description or anything else.
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So whatever came about with the H&H anniversary DVD? I don't even know what the thing was supposed to be. They kept saying they were working on it, but never description or anything else.
I'm not sure exactly what you are talking about, but they are releasing this;
https://www.roadrunnerrecords.com/blabbermouth.net/news.aspx?mode=Article&newsitemID=147626
Would this be what you are talking about?
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So whatever came about with the H&H anniversary DVD? I don't even know what the thing was supposed to be. They kept saying they were working on it, but never description or anything else.
I'm not sure exactly what you are talking about, but they are releasing this;
https://www.roadrunnerrecords.com/blabbermouth.net/news.aspx?mode=Article&newsitemID=147626
Would this be what you are talking about?
Pretty sure that's what he's talking about. Shit looks awesome as hell :metal
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So whatever came about with the H&H anniversary DVD? I don't even know what the thing was supposed to be. They kept saying they were working on it, but never description or anything else.
I'm not sure exactly what you are talking about, but they are releasing this;
https://www.roadrunnerrecords.com/blabbermouth.net/news.aspx?mode=Article&newsitemID=147626
Would this be what you are talking about?
Pretty sure that's what he's talking about. Shit looks awesome as hell :metal
First day buyer right here.
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It's in dire need of a remix though.
A remixed and remastered Born Again would be bliss!
I think they'll do it in time. They maybe have to tell Ian Gillan if they want to do it because it will be another outlet of royalty payments for him. That's what I think. But yeah! I say just go for it, I love how it sounds now and I'd love it to be also remastered/remixed in a more dry way or something. It might be hard to top the evil sound of it.
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It's in dire need of a remix though.
A remixed and remastered Born Again would be bliss!
Indeed. Fantastic album, with cringeworthy production...
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So whatever came about with the H&H anniversary DVD? I don't even know what the thing was supposed to be. They kept saying they were working on it, but never description or anything else.
I'm not sure exactly what you are talking about, but they are releasing this;
https://www.roadrunnerrecords.com/blabbermouth.net/news.aspx?mode=Article&newsitemID=147626
Would this be what you are talking about?
That will make a great companion to the Dio Live At Donnington shows being released next week.
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Okay so it's n00b time.
Until a few days ago, the only Black Sabbath songs I'd ever heard were on Paranoid and 1992's Dehumanizer (with Dio). Seriously. I've always had a desire to get into their music, particularly this year when War Pigs became something of a signature song for my band, but for whatever reason I never got around to it. I listened to Heaven and Hell and Mob Rules first and enjoyed them as songs in the same vein as those from Dehumanizer.
Tonight, I listened to their eponymous first album and I just can't get over how awesome it is. I've always liked Paranoid but this absolutely blew it out of the water. I seriously wanted to sit down and learn every song on the album on the spot. It's so kickass!
I'm going to keep going through their discography and probably stopping after Sabotage.
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Don't forget Master Of Reality, Vol 4, Sabbath Bloody Sabbath.
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No I meant through all of the albums until Sabotage.
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Black Sabbath rules! The first 5 albums are amazing, Sabotage and Technical Ecstacy are really underrated.
Get into the Tony Martin era too, very underrated and some fantastic albums in there.
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Get ready for Master of reality. One of my favorite albums of all time. :metal
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No I meant through all of the albums until Sabotage.
Bad idea. Never Say Die has some interesting moments. Born Again is a dark, underrated masterpiece IMO. Seventh Star is great classic rock, and Headless Cross, TYR, Eternal Idol and Cross Purposes are my preferred Sabbath works. Completely different from their early stuff but amazing music nevertheless.
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No I meant through all of the albums until Sabotage.
Bad idea. Never Say Die has some interesting moments. Born Again is a dark, underrated masterpiece IMO. Seventh Star is great classic rock, and Headless Cross, TYR, Eternal Idol and Cross Purposes are my preferred Sabbath works. Completely different from their early stuff but amazing music nevertheless.
Interesting. The reason I was planning on stopping at Sabotage (aside from the three later albums with Dio I already mentioned) was simply because I heard the rest just weren't very good.
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Never Say Die is a great underappreciated album. Check it out :)
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Black Sabbath Reunite!
https://www.classicrockmagazine.com/news/black-sabbath-reunite-official/
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Yeah, I read that. Super stoked. :caffeine:
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This is great news. Since the Dio lineup is no longer possible, this is the best thing to happen. Ozzy's last two solo albums weren't very good, but we all know Tony Iommi is still the master, so an album is a win-win to me.
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This is great news. Since the Dio lineup is no longer possible, this is the best thing to happen. Ozzy's last two solo albums weren't very good, but we all know Tony Iommi is still the master, so an album is a win-win to me.
Scream was pretty good I thought.
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This is great news. Since the Dio lineup is no longer possible, this is the best thing to happen. Ozzy's last two solo albums weren't very good, but we all know Tony Iommi is still the master, so an album is a win-win to me.
Scream was pretty good I thought.
I personally thought that was his first album with zero redeeming value. It's just slop to me. At least Black Rain had a few great tracks.
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This is great news. Since the Dio lineup is no longer possible, this is the best thing to happen. Ozzy's last two solo albums weren't very good, but we all know Tony Iommi is still the master, so an album is a win-win to me.
Scream was pretty good I thought.
I personally thought that was his first album with zero redeeming value. It's just slop to me. At least Black Rain had a few great tracks.
Ah, I feel Black Rain as his worst album and Scream as big Redeemer. To each their own :P
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I don't know about the new album, but man, I'd love to see them live! :metal
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Yawn. Ozzy has no voice left, so this is basically another cash grab by that evil witch Sharon Osbourne. And with Dio no longer living, Sabbath either has to go with Ozzy (the only other singer the public will accept) or call it a day.
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**UPDATE**: According to Classic Rock magazine, Tony Iommi's management has strongly denied the authenticity of this story, claiming that the guitarist hasn't spoken to Birmingham Mail for two months. ***
https://www.roadrunnerrecords.com/blabbermouth.net/news.aspx?mode=Article&newsitemID=162051
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LOL
https://www.roadrunnerrecords.com/blabbermouth.net/news.aspx?mode=Article&newsitemID=162068
BLACK SABBATH Guitarist Says There Has Been No Official Confirmation Of Reunion - Aug. 16, 2011
BLACK SABBATH guitarist Tony Iommi has released the following statement regarding the reports of a reunion of the band's original lineup:
"I'm saddened that a Birmingham journalist whom I trusted has chosen this point in time to take a conversation we had back in June and make it sound like we spoke yesterday about a BLACK SABBATH reunion.
"At the time I was supporting the Home Of Metal exhibition was merely speculating shooting the breeze on something all of us get asked constantly, 'Are you getting back together?'
"Thanks to the Internet it's now gone round the world as some sort of 'official' statement on my part; absolute nonsense. I hope he's enjoyed his moment of glory, he won't have another at my expense.
"To my old pals, Ozzy, Geezer and Bill, sorry about this, I should have known better."
The original SABBATH lineup has not toured together since summer 2005, and last convened for their induction into the Rock And Roll Hall Of Fame in early 2006.
SABBATH did try to record a new album 12 years ago, their first since 1978, but abandoned the attempt after just a couple of songs.
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???
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Good, it just wouldn't work. Ozzy is finished and I don't see Bill going through with a full tour. Iommi should either make Whocares a full time project, get Tony Martin back and do an album, or do another collaboration with Glenn Hughes.
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Yeah, Bill would be the major problem with a reunion, not Ozzy. Sharon would force Ozzy to do it for the money. But Bill has a mind of his own, and I can't see him voluntarily choosing to do this.
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As if Ozzy needs more money.
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I never said Ozzy needed money. $haron does.
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A reunion with Tony Martin would be very very cool. I don't see there being much money in it, but I doubt Iommi needs the cash. The cult fan following for the Martin era would be very happy to see it though.
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I guess I'm not up on current events. Why would Bill Ward be the problem?
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He comes across in interviews as an old man who's basically saying, in so many words, "I'm too old for this shit." Which there's nothing wrong with, btw. I don't blame him.
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Yeah, rock stars used to actually retire when they got old. Now it seems like they're "expected" to keep playing, keep touring, until they die. At one time, the dream was to get filthy rich, then retire and live it up.
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That sucks. An album would have been awesome. They should just go with the H&H lineup, but with Ozzy.
Yeah, rock stars used to actually retire when they got old. Now it seems like they're "expected" to keep playing, keep touring, until they die. At one time, the dream was to get filthy rich, then retire and live it up.
When and who? :lol
Pretty much any good rockstar in history either died or is still playing.
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Yeah, rock stars used to actually retire when they got old. Now it seems like they're "expected" to keep playing, keep touring, until they die. At one time, the dream was to get filthy rich, then retire and live it up.
I don't really understand this either. Black Sabbath are some of the oldest rockstars. There wasn't too much time to be able to say "used too" before Black Sabbath came around.
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Black Sabbath are some of the oldest rockstars.
What? Black Sabbath didn't even release their first album until 1970.
Rock and Roll has been around since the early 60's and traces its roots back to the 50's. How many of those guys do you remember still touring in the 60's and 70's? They made some records, then stopped when they weren't "hot" anymore. The ones who did really well retired, the rest got "real jobs" and were never heard from again. It wasn't until the 70's when reunion tours became big. Around the same time, bands figured out that you don't have to officially break up and stop recording at some point; you just take an indefinite hiatus and can always get back together some time in the future. This most definitely was not the norm prior to the 70's.
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:lol
Looks like it has taken another twist:
"After news yesterday that Black Sabbath were reforming, Tony Iommi published a statement which suggested the claims were unfounded. However, Ultimate Guitar can confirm that a Black Sabbath reunion is still a possibility, and that they’ve probably been writing new material for months. The story began when Metal Talk claimed that the band were reforming and were due to begin rehearsals yesterday. Evidence seemed thin on the ground, but then a Birmingham Mail journalist, Andy Coleman, seemed to confirm the rumour when he quoted a conversation with Iommi from June.
"We’re really looking forward to it and I think the stuff we’ve been writing is really good," Iommi said. "It’s all been very hush-hush."
Today, the Black Sabbath guitarist appeared to quash the story in a statement on his website: "I'm saddened that a Birmingham journalist whom I trusted has chosen this point in time to take a conversation we had back in June and make it sound like we spoke yesterday about a Black Sabbath reunion. "I hope he's enjoyed his moment of glory, he won't have another at my expense." As a result, the majority of the music press reported today that the rumours were false. But we couldn’t help but notice that Iommi doesn’t deny the reunion.
Today, the Birmingham Mail confirmed this by posting a conversation with Iommi’s manager, Ralph Baker, which suggests the idea of a Black Sabbath reunion are still alive. It seems Iommi acknowledges that he never denied a reunion, or the statemenets he made in June. "We haven’t got anything in place," said Baker. "He’s not denying that the guys have been talking," before rudely adding "A very insignificant little website [Metal Talk] put something out about Sabbath getting back together and being in the Midlands." Apparantly, Iommi was upset that the Birmingham Mail gave weight to the Metal Talk story. "That’s why Tony’s p----d off, because the story would have died a death."
Speaking to UG, Andy Coleman said he was only confirming the story after the reunion first leaked on Metal Talk, but the Iommi statement had given him a busy day. Why reveal Iommi’s comments now, and not before? "Once a story is out there, it’s out there," Coleman said. So the question is, are Back Sabbath reforming? Iommi hasn’t denied it, and even said that the band had written new material. All he said today was that he was disappointed in a journalist for publishing what he felt was an off-record conversation. So ignore the reports on other metal sites today - Black Sabbath have written new material, and are seriously considering a reformation. Rock on!"
https://www.ultimate-guitar.com/news/general_music_news/black_sabbath_never_denied_reunion_today.html
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Wow, is this getting confusing or what?
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I'll go with: what?
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Black Sabbath are some of the oldest rockstars.
What? Black Sabbath didn't even release their first album until 1970.
Rock and Roll has been around since the early 60's and traces its roots back to the 50's. How many of those guys do you remember still touring in the 60's and 70's? They made some records, then stopped when they weren't "hot" anymore. The ones who did really well retired, the rest got "real jobs" and were never heard from again. It wasn't until the 70's when reunion tours became big. Around the same time, bands figured out that you don't have to officially break up and stop recording at some point; you just take an indefinite hiatus and can always get back together some time in the future. This most definitely was not the norm prior to the 70's.
Yeah, I get what you mean.
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inb4 Iommi releases another statement denying everything.
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You know who would be an awesome singer for Sabbath (IMO)? Blaze Bayley. I think his voice would suit Sabbaths music fairly well (not as well as Ozzy did, but I don't think they should try and recreate the Sabbath of old.
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Black Sabbath are some of the oldest rockstars.
What? Black Sabbath didn't even release their first album until 1970.
Rock and Roll has been around since the early 60's and traces its roots back to the 50's. How many of those guys do you remember still touring in the 60's and 70's? They made some records, then stopped when they weren't "hot" anymore. The ones who did really well retired, the rest got "real jobs" and were never heard from again. It wasn't until the 70's when reunion tours became big. Around the same time, bands figured out that you don't have to officially break up and stop recording at some point; you just take an indefinite hiatus and can always get back together some time in the future. This most definitely was not the norm prior to the 70's.
Yeah, I get what you mean.
I guess I still forget that 70's rock has been around longer than many people on this board. Music really changed a lot in the 80's, and when just about any 70's band released a new album, people went "What? Are they still around?" I'm not exaggerating. The MTv generation really thought they'd invented music or something, and anything more than a year old was dead.
When The Doobie Brothers announced their reunion tour in the mid-80's, it was huge, huge news. They were the first 70's band to actually get back together and go back on the road; no one had done it before. As I said, prior to then, bands either made a specific decision to keep recording and/or touring, or they broke up with an official announcement.
Eagles had been on hiatus for several years before anyone noticed that they hadn't recorded or toured in a while, but they never announced that they were breaking up. Again, this was very, very unusual, and when Don Henley finally said something years later in an interview confirming that they'd broken up, people were blown away. "Wow, that's right! I never heard anything!"
But anyway, things are different now, and I really need to get used to it. Bands don't break up anymore, or if they do, there's always a chance that they'll reform later anyway, so there's really no point in announcing a breakup. Anyone can do a solo album, or do a side project, then get back together with their main gig and do an album or tour. Peter Gabriel stunned the hell out of the rock world in 1975 when he left Genesis. He wanted to do a solo album, and back then, you were either in a band or you were a solo artist, so left quit the band. Nowadays, he would've just done his solo album, then gotten back together later to work on the next Genesis album. It was only a few years later that Phil Collins did exactly that. He made his first solo album, then Genesis was back in the studio the following year.
/boring history lesson
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That was interesting, thanks Orbert :)
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Very interested to hear what the new material will sound like. I haven't been impressed with any Ozzy material after Ozzmosis, so hopefully this reunion will motivate him. How long will this last? Any predictions. Also curious as to see what the live set list will be; hopefully more then the usual 10-12 songs.
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I just heard about it today. Supposedly Iommi, Ozzy, Ward, and Butler are all on board? I'll be optimistic. Cautiously optimistic, but we're not gonna get any better than this.
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Considering how... 'dilapidated' Ozzy has been, both in studio and live performance, for quite some time, I'm skeptical, but I'll give the album a listen.
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As long as Iommi's there, something good will happen. The Devil You Know was awesome, and as long as Ozzy doesn't suck royally, I don't see how this could fail.
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Ozzy sucked 6 years ago. Not expecting him to sound any better.
We shall see if Rubin can work his magic and at least muster a decent album out of these guys, but I doubt the live show will be anything to write home about. So long as that puppet is on vocals.
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Ozzy sucked 6 years ago. Not expecting him to sound any better.
We shall see if Rubin can work his magic and at least muster a decent album out of these guys, but I doubt the live show will be anything to write home about. So long as that puppet is on vocals.
I agree with everything here except that I think he's mostly sucked for 30 years. (Ok...NMT was a final dying gasp of greatness...but even that IMHO was mostly the work of ghost writers and had very little to do with Ozzy himself. DoaM was the last time you heard from Ozzy "the artist"...but, that is only my opinion and I have no facts to back it up)
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I'm looking forward to this :metal
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As long as Iommi's there, something good will happen. The Devil You Know was awesome, and as long as Ozzy doesn't suck royally, I don't see how this could fail.
This. I think Ozzy's sounded just fine on records until Black Rain. On the last two it's basically sounded like "Weekend at Ozzy's", but still passable. He's obviously got nothing on Dio, but as long as they can get a tune out of him in the studio, this could be great. Live I have no expectations for Ozzy (I saw him a few years ago), but I would go and see that in a heartbeat.
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I hope they don't charge too much on the tour... if they come to Perth I'm going for sure.
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World tour - OMG :hefdaddy :metal :omg: :metal :hefdaddy :tup :metal
New album - OK, we'll see...
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A reunion album would be great with the original lineup. :metal
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Definitely excited for the album and tour. Hopefully they come close to Toronto!
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They are officialy headlining the Sunday night of the Download Festival in England next year :) I know where my money will be going :metal
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I know where my money will be going :metal
To Sharon?
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I know where my money will be going :metal
To Sharon?
If It will make sure that Ozzy is there, then yes
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This could go either way, although the money in it for them would be incredible. I just wish ithe news would stop saying "first studio album in 33 years." Well, yes for this lineup but, it's technically the first Sabbath album in 16 years. let's not forgot the two studio tracks they did on the runion album.
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I count The Devil You Know as a Sabbath album too.
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I count The Devil You Know as a Sabbath album too.
It very well could have the name Black Sabbath.
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Its cool original Sabbath is back, but unfortunately when people like Ozzy and Gene Simmons do ridiculous reality shows it turns them into cartoon characters for me. I can't take Ozzy serious anymore. I just doubt he has much left as a performer. I will be interested to see if they can put out a decent album.
Its hard to get that excited about a ancient artifact (Ozzy)being reanimated for money sake.
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I'm reading all this thinking it's really a shame that Dio did not outlive Ozzy.
This news only leaves me with skepticism. The two songs I've heard from Ozzy's last album were terrible. He sounded so technically propped up, it was like it wasn't even his voice.
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Coincidentally (?) I just saw a short programme on the making of 'Paranoid'. Awesome.
Sabbath's always been a bit in the fringes/periphery of my interest, but I'd go see the original lineup when they came near me.
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All I've been listening to has been Sabbath lately, which makes me wonder, best Ozzy-era album? I vote for Master Of Reality.
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Probably Paranoid, but theyare all great.
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Sabotage or Master of Reality
Paranoid and Sabbath, Bloody Sabbath are very good too.
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Sabbath Bloody Sabbath is a classic as well
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My favourite's their first, by a fair margin. They have better songs on most of their albums than the best on that one, but it's the most well-rounded, and it's damn good all the way. And I really like the bluesier feel of that album.
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Been cranking Headless Cross today. Amazing record.
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Sabbath Drummer says he may pull out of reunion (https://omg.yahoo.com/news/black-sabbath-drummer-says-may-pull-reunion-143055692.html;_ylt=A2KJNTuTECxPVAcAyorWwOZ_)
LONDON (Reuters) - Black Sabbath drummer Bill Ward has said he will not participate in the British heavy metal band's reunion recordings and tour unless he is offered a "signable" contract.
The statement on his website casts further doubt on the much-hyped return of the veteran rockers, who announced last November that the original line-up were getting back together to write and record their first album in more than 30 years.
They also unveiled plans for a world tour in 2012.
But last month, guitarist Tony Iommi was diagnosed with the early stages of lymphoma and, to accommodate his treatment, the band moved from the United States to Birmingham in Britain to continue writing and recording.
The founding members of the heavy metal pioneers were Ozzy Osbourne on vocals, Iommi, Geezer Butler on bass guitar and Ward.
"At this time, I would love nothing more than to be able to proceed with the Black Sabbath album and tour," Ward said on his website.
"However, I am unable to continue unless a 'signable' contract is drawn up; a contract that reflects some dignity and respect toward me as an original member of the band."
He said he worked with the other Black Sabbath members "in good faith" last year and agreed to appear alongside them at the November press conference in Los Angeles.
"Several days ago, after nearly a year of trying to negotiate, another 'unsignable' contract was handed to me."
He said he was keen to play on the new album and tour, and was already packed and ready to leave the United States for Britain to join the band.
Ward described feeling "lousy and lonely," but added that he stood to lose his "rights, dignity and respectability as a rock musician" if he signed the contract offered to him.
"If I'm replaced, I have to face you, the beloved Sabbath fans. I hope you will not hold me responsible for the failure of an original Black Sabbath lineup as promoted."
He also said his motives were not "greed-driven" and that he was not holding out for a big pay day "like some kind of blackmail deal."
I can't imagine what a more wonderful place the world would be if cancer had gotten Sharron Osbourne 10 years ago. Or better yet, her father's dogs 20 years prior.
I'd be willing to bet that Ward and Butler understand they're not the draw that Ozzy's braindead, crippled ass is, but they're still an integral part of the band and deserve to be treated as such. History's shown that the Osbournes have never given a shit about the musicians behind them, and it's a constant source of annoyance for me.
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I can't imagine what a more wonderful place the world would be if cancer had gotten Sharron Osbourne 10 years ago. Or better yet, her father's dogs 20 years prior.
I'd be willing to bet that Ward and Butler understand they're not the draw that Ozzy's braindead, crippled ass is, but they're still an integral part of the band and deserve to be treated as such. History's shown that the Osbournes have never given a shit about the musicians behind them, and it's a constant source of annoyance for me.
Good God Barto I'm glad I read that post before I posted the exact same thing.
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What kills me is when people still give the Osbournes money, since they can't resist getting the lastest Ozzy remaster or seeing the latest Sabbath reunion tour. If she is so evil, stop giving her money by paying for anything relating to Ozzy Osbourne. If it means you miss out on a tour, so be it. That is how I see it.
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But if I buy my remasters used, then it's all good ;D
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There's no more recent remasters than the ones from 2004, right?
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I'm not playing the devil's advocate here; I honestly don't know. Do we know for a fact that Sharon Osbourne is the problem? I read Bill Ward's entire statement, about how he deserves some dignity and respect as a founding member (which I totally agree with) and I was thinking the whole way through that he's probably just looking for 1/4 of the take, just as each of the other three deserve. Then I got to the last sentence and he says it's not about the money, so now I don't even know.
People can argue all they want about how Black Sabbath is "more" about Tony or Ozzy, but it seems to me that when it's the original four getting back together, you just split the take four ways. Anything less than that is a slap in the face.
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Keep in mind, Ward didn't take part in Heaven and Hell. IMO they should just get Vinny Apice, worked real nice for H&H, why not for this?
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Keep in mind, Ward didn't take part in Heaven and Hell. IMO they should just get Vinny Apice, worked real nice for H&H, why not for this?
I suspect that's the fallback option. While I like Vinnie, he's a far cry from Bill Ward, though. Seeing Ward is a big part of the equation.
There's no more recent remasters than the ones from 2004, right?
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I'm not sure, but I think they re-remastered the first two albums with the original members on them. Ironically, the Trujillo/Bordin versions might actually wind up being collectors items at some point.
What kills me is when people still give the Osbournes money, since they can't resist getting the lastest Ozzy remaster or seeing the latest Sabbath reunion tour. If she is so evil, stop giving her money by paying for anything relating to Ozzy Osbourne. If it means you miss out on a tour, so be it. That is how I see it.
I swore off giving those assholes money after the San Bernardino Ozzfest fiasco. As far as I'm concerned, that bitch owes me money. That wouldn't prevent me from buying a $10 scalper seat, though.
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Interesting views from Bill. I guess we really don't know the reasons behind it, but Bill is always genuine, so maybe what he is saying and where he is coming from is right. Why shouldn't they all get a quater each, seems only fair. IMO, Ozzy should take home the least.
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If there is no Bill Ward, it is NOT a Black Sabbath reunion. Period. :hat
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Interesting views from Bill. I guess we really don't know the reasons behind it, but Bill is always genuine, so maybe what he is saying and where he is coming from is right. Why shouldn't they all get a quater each, seems only fair. IMO, Ozzy should take home the least.
Yeah I agree. I don't think they should have even brought Ozzy back anyway...
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Interesting views from Bill. I guess we really don't know the reasons behind it, but Bill is always genuine, so maybe what he is saying and where he is coming from is right. Why shouldn't they all get a quater each, seems only fair. IMO, Ozzy should take home the least.
Yeah I agree. I don't think they should have even brought Ozzy back anyway...
Totally agree with you. I would have brought back Martin, Hughes or Gillan before even thinking about Ozzy.
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Regardless of whether or not it's Sharon's fault, this is hardly surprising. Bill is a flaky dude. Not speaking ill of his drumming abilities, but we all know he's a bit of a curmudgeon. I bet he's using whatever legal thing he mentions as an excuse for his heart not being in it. Just a hunch.
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Gadough's right, Bill has pulled out of things like this quite a few times. Remember he was suppose to be the drummer of H&H, but pulled out due to his health issues.
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There's no indication that his health issues were anything other than genuine. IIRC, he bailed last time because of a heart attack. Not exactly trivial. And when you factor in the Osbourne's past history towards the musicians behind Ozzy, this all makes pretty good sense.
Interesting views from Bill. I guess we really don't know the reasons behind it, but Bill is always genuine, so maybe what he is saying and where he is coming from is right. Why shouldn't they all get a quater each, seems only fair. IMO, Ozzy should take home the least.
That's a tough one. He's certainly the freeloader insofar as talent goes. He's also (quite stupidly) the main draw. Plenty of us would go to see Butler/Ward/Iommi regardless, but we'd see them in a club or theater. Ozzy makes it an arena.
I'd love to see a Sabbath reunion of Tony Martin era stuff, but he couldn't sing his material live 20 years ago, much less now. His last attempt at a solo tour had a guy off stage singing parts of the songs.
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I don't think either one of us were implying that his reasons weren't/aren't legitimate. Perhaps flake was the wrong word to use.
If he has health problems or simply doesn't want to take part, that's fine. Both perfectly good reasons.
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Yeah, Ozzy's a wreck now, Bill's health and attitude are questionable, and there have been some other great lineups over the years, but there's still something extra cool about the original four getting back together. My hope is that it happens, and somehow being on stage with the others extracts some amazing performances from Ozzy (and everyone else involved, for that matter).
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Yeah, something else to consider is that you can generally count on Ozzy to miss a handful of shows each tour. I wouldn't want to spend money up front for a show that might or might not happen. Had a friend arrive to an empty venue after driving to California once, sorta like Clark Griswald. Fuck that. All the more reason to buy the giveaways at the venue from scalpers.
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I think you all are giving Ozzy a little too much Flak. If it's anyone to hate it's Sharon, I saw Ozzy on his Black Rain tour and he did pretty well, and to say Ozzy's not bringing much is real untrue, as his vocals are part of the reason I even got into metal. His Solo Career has always been quite enjoyable to me, and Sabbath has always been awesome as well, but my favorite material from them are when Ozzy's at the helm.
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I'd love to see a Sabbath reunion of Tony Martin era stuff, but he couldn't sing his material live 20 years ago, much less now. His last attempt at a solo tour had a guy off stage singing parts of the songs.
Seriously??
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Interesting views from Bill. I guess we really don't know the reasons behind it, but Bill is always genuine, so maybe what he is saying and where he is coming from is right. Why shouldn't they all get a quater each, seems only fair. IMO, Ozzy should take home the least.
Yeah I agree. I don't think they should have even brought Ozzy back anyway...
Totally agree with you. I would have brought back Martin, Hughes or Gillan before even thinking about Ozzy.
And in that case they would have been thinking about playing bars and clubs instead of playing arenas. Face it, the Ozzy lineup is the only classic and popular lineup they can perform with since Dio's death.
Even though Ozzy's vocals recently even on studio records are like "Weekend at Ozzy's", I'm excited to hear the original line-up that wrote all of those classic songs. And even though it sucks to have Bill Ward have to pull out for something like this, I'm actually perfectly fine if they go with Vinny Appice. I would have expected them to do it at some point anyway considering Bill Ward's physical condition. I just didn't see him holding up for a world tour.
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I totally agree, Ozzy was the only one to give Sabbath the attention back, I know that, I personally just would prefer any of the other three singers before Ozzy. I know they would never do it. And even I've been hoping for a new Martin album for over ten years, I know it will never happen.
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Well I won't argue that any of those other singers could do an infinitely better job than Ozzy. And I'd be just as interested in anything they release, and go to see them live regardless of who they get on vocals (I mean, it's Tony. TONY!) But from a business perspective, this was the right move for them, and I'm still a big Ozzy fan despite the fact he's gone downhill.
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I'd love to see a Sabbath reunion of Tony Martin era stuff, but he couldn't sing his material live 20 years ago, much less now. His last attempt at a solo tour had a guy off stage singing parts of the songs.
Seriously??
In the more recent videos, Geoff Nichols doubles most of his vocals, and does all of the higher parts. Turns out he's not offstage, but just never shown in the crowd shot videos--my bad. Regardless, Martin's managed to muster up awesome studio performances, but that's about it. Here he is from '95 with Sabbath bluffing his way through The Shining (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iRkbsWWjbkw). Very unfortunate because there was some awesome music during that era.
And in that case they would have been thinking about playing bars and clubs instead of playing arenas. Face it, the Ozzy lineup is the only classic and popular lineup they can perform with since Dio's death.
Absolutely correct. Better for them, but from my perspective, I'd pay good money to see Iommi, Rondinelli, Murray, Nichols and some singer play in a club. I wouldn't pay much more than $15 to see the latest Ozzfest lite, with 3 warm up acts and a 70 minute set from Ozzy/Sabbath. And with Appice instead of Ward, it'd probably have to be free to warrant giving up an evening at home.
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Martin always suffered live, Cross Purposes show that. And even the live in Moscow bootleg DVD shows Martin at the top of his range live. A good performance but he must have struggled a lot in the studio to get some of the performances that he did, as on the DVD he still changes melodies a lot to avoid the highs.
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Unfortunately, Iommi's really only got two options. Hire a new singer and play clubs to people like me, or hook up with Ozzy and play for 12k kids. Quite honestly an easy choice.
And upon further reflection, the opportunity to see Iommi shred his way through Dirty Women while teenage AX7 fan-girls and their skanky moms all show their tits probably puts it back into the I'd-pay-to-see range (though not by a whole lot).
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Really disappointed at the fight between Bill and the rest of the band but I think they made the right decision to press on without him. Black Sabbath went ahead with Dio after they fired Ozzy and the band was still called Black Sabbath so maybe this would be an analogy to that. But of course I'd love to see Bill join the lineup and feature on the record. If he won't do it then they can just call Vinny Appice again.
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I would have brought back Martin, Hughes or Gillan before even thinking about Ozzy.
Yeah, because that tour would sure make a lot of money. ;D
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I personally would love to see Martin, Hughes or Gillan before even thinking about Ozzy.
Yeah, because that tour would sure make a lot of money. ;D
I have changed my wording on this quote as my personal preference and a decision from a business point of view are two totally different things.
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Fair enough, it makes sense. I don't know if there are enough huge Martin era fans to sell out a concert, but if they want to have a profitable tour, the reunion with the original members is the only way. I don't wanna blame the guys, it's the money we're talking about. But still, for all the fans, what matters is hearing those good old songs, even if we try to forget who will be sitting on a drum stool.
I'm personally not too happy about the situation, but what can you do. It's still Ozzy, Tony and Geezer.
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According to The Pulse Of Radio, a source has told MetalTalk.net that the three remaining original members of BLACK SABBATH have recruited Tommy Clufetos, who plays drums in singer Ozzy Osbourne's solo band, to sit behind the SABBATH kit for the foreseeable future. The source added that manager Sharon Osbourne has effectively "fired" founding drummer Bill Ward, who announced last week that he could not participate in the recording sessions or tour plans due to his unhappiness with the contract he was offered.
Ozzy, guitarist Tony Iommi and bassist Geezer Butler responded to Ward's February 2 statement by saying, "We have no choice but to continue recording without him although our door is always open."
The absence of Ward effectively prevents this from being the full-blown regrouping of the original SABBATH lineup that was first envisioned last year.
A number of SABBATH fans have rallied around Ward and have launched a new Facebook page dubbed "1,000,000 Black Sabbath Fans Say Yes To Bill Ward".
I'd really like to know what the unsignable contract looked like. The fact that Iommi and Butler seem to be fine with this is kind of troubling. If they were broke, I could understand it, but I highly doubt that's the case.
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https://www.metalsucks.net/2012/02/08/did-sharon-osbourne-fire-bill-ward-from-black-sabbath-reunion/
Read this, Metaltalk.net is most likely a bogus site. Also go to Metaltalk.net and it just seems more and more bogus.
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The way I interpreting the thing was that their management, Sharon Osbourne, decided not to consider a different contract, and the decision was made to go on without him. Note that the article said "effectively" fired him, which is how I'd describe the situation as we currently know it.
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BILL WARD's Son: 'What A Way To F**k Up Such A Powerful, Influential And Inspirational Legacy' - Feb. 8, 2012
https://www.roadrunnerrecords.com/blabbermouth.net/news.aspx?mode=Article&newsitemID=169439
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I'm actually not too concerned about not having Bill Ward (*puts up shield*), but just going with Ozzy's solo drummer is a terrible choice. First of all, I was hoping they'd avoid a newer generic metal drummer and go with someone like Vinny Appice who had some history with the band already. And going with someone already with Ozzy's band makes this feel more blatantly like Sharon Osbourne just pulling the strings, rather than an honest Sabbath reunion. It's 50% of Ozzy's existing solo band now. That's not cool.
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I'm actually not too concerned about not having Bill Ward (*puts up shield*), but just going with Ozzy's solo drummer is a terrible choice. First of all, I was hoping they'd avoid a newer generic metal drummer and go with someone like Vinny Appice who had some history with the band already. And going with someone already with Ozzy's band makes this feel more blatantly like Sharon Osbourne just pulling the strings, rather than an honest Sabbath reunion. It's 50% of Ozzy's existing solo band now. That's not cool.
Like I said, no one can back up Metaltalk.net's claims that Ozzy's solo drummer is in, I'd still place bets on Vinny. And Ozzy is only one part of Black Sabbath, Tony Iommi and Geezer are still capable of making decisions of their own.
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I'm actually not too concerned about not having Bill Ward (*puts up shield*), but just going with Ozzy's solo drummer is a terrible choice. First of all, I was hoping they'd avoid a newer generic metal drummer and go with someone like Vinny Appice who had some history with the band already. And going with someone already with Ozzy's band makes this feel more blatantly like Sharon Osbourne just pulling the strings, rather than an honest Sabbath reunion. It's 50% of Ozzy's existing solo band now. That's not cool.
Like I said, no one can back up Metaltalk.net's claims that Ozzy's solo drummer is in, I'd still place bets on Vinny. And Ozzy is only one part of Black Sabbath, Tony Iommi and Geezer are still capable of making decisions of their own.
In that case, you can take my post as a response to the unconfirmed hypothetical, and I really hope it doesn't end up being the case.
With Bill Ward out due to an apparent bad contract, I do wonder how much say Tony and Geezer are having in the whole process, but I'm really hoping for Vinny Appice too.
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Vinnie is wrapped up in a different project. While not officially out of the picture, he's out of the picture. And honestly, he's an average drummer at best.
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Vinnie is wrapped up in a different project. While not officially out of the picture, he's out of the picture. And honestly, he's an average drummer at best.
My hope for Appice only stems from keeping it as close as possible to the Sabbath family, rather than drumming ability. Do you think that as of 2012 his drumming would be any worse than Bill Ward could manage these days?
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Vinnie is wrapped up in a different project. While not officially out of the picture, he's out of the picture. And honestly, he's an average drummer at best.
My hope for Appice only stems from keeping it as close as possible to the Sabbath family, rather than drumming ability. Do you think that as of 2012 his drumming would be any worse than Bill Ward could manage these days?
I think Appice would do his own thing and play just fine. I think Bill Ward would do the right thing, and also play just fine. Something to consider is that Vinnie is content to sit in the background and do nothing more than rudimentary drum work*. Bill Ward played with a great deal of style that actually added to the music. That's something he's still quite capable of, even if he has slowed down a notch. And, last time I saw Ward he really whipped some ass.
Were it me, I think I'd be on the phone with Bobby Rondinelli right now. He recorded an album with Geezer and Iommi, and he plays a better Sabbath style than Appice.
*In fairness, I actually like Vinnie Appice. Much like his brother, he's got a very distinctive, though somewhat limited, style that serves him pretty well in his original composition. I always thought We Rock was an outstanding bit of drumming. His is just a very different approach than Ward's.
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Well that's all fair enough. I'm not familiar with Bobby Rondinelli, so I don't know what he's like. As long as they find a fitting drummer (such as any of the suggestions thrown around on this page, or somehow miraculously working things out with Ward), I'm not too fussed. I just don't want a younger metal drummer who doesn't really fit in with the Sabbath style as well, and I don't think Ozzy's solo drummer would be a good fit at all.
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Ah well, it was fun while it lasted. I'm sort of glad I didn't get my ticket now.
and oh yeah....fuck Sharon. :tdwn
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and oh yeah....fuck Sharon. :tdwn
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On a lighter note, Birmingham may create a Black Sabbath Day to highlight the legendary act’s contribution to music.
https://www.birminghammail.net/news/birmingham-news/2012/01/31/birmingham-may-hold-a-black-sabbath-day-97319-30230603/
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Music Business 101
If one of your band mates is unhappy with the royalty share he will receive - just sack him and get someone else ! Leaving you free to award yourself more royalties ! Also being married to your manager is a plus !
Think what you want about U2 - but at least they split everything 25% each. Which is the best way. Saves this type of argument.
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Think what you want about U2 - but at least they split everything 25% each. Which is the best way. Saves this type of argument.
Same way with Rush, who split everything three ways regardless of who wrote what or who does what or whatever. And it's no coincidence that Rush and U2 have more longevity (when talking years AND keeping the same members) than almost every other band out there (ZZ Top notwithstanding).
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Slight tangent - but U2 are one of the only bands ( maybe THE only band ) that has been around for over 30 years and NEVER had a lineup change.
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BWWWAAAAHAHAHAHAHA!!!
Another "Hitler" video regarding the current Black Sabbath situation...the idea is getting a little tired, but I honestly laughed my butt off at this one...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=E78dXfhf04g
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On Blabbermouth some guy made a comment like "black sabbath won't be the same without bill fuck."
Obviously, he should have put a comma after Bill, so it would read "black sabbath won't be the same without bill, fuck."
But since he didn't it's become a running joke to call him Bill Fuck. :lol
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The clips from the Birmingham show are just awesome. It almost makes me not care about the whole Bill Ward thing as callous as that sounds. I really hope they mend fences with him, but for the meantime the band are still going plenty strong without him. Can't wait for the new album!
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*In fairness, I actually like Vinnie Appice. Much like his brother, he's got a very distinctive, though somewhat limited, style that serves him pretty well in his original composition. I always thought We Rock was an outstanding bit of drumming. His is just a very different approach than Ward's.
I'm not a fan of Vinnie at all. He's got a strange style of drumming.
I'd love to hear what Nicko McBrain could do with those songs. A Pipe dream, I know.
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I think Nicko would do some great stuff, his work on the Out of My Mind track fitted really well with the Sabbath style.
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I think Nicko would do some great stuff, his work on the Out of My Mind track fitted really well with the Sabbath style.
Yeah agreed!
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Been hearing a few Sabbath songs in random places lately and occurred to me again I don’t own anything of theirs. Currently limited funds means I am probably not going to invest in anything more than 1 or 2 CDs… any chance of their being a solid compilation of theirs out there?
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Just get Paranoid and maybe the debut as well. Compilations are never the way to go!
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The Best of Black Sabbath covers the Ozzy era very well, and crams in as best it can for a double disc. It doesn't really cover anything else though. I believe it has maybe one Dio era song on there.
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Compilations are never the way to go!
I would agree with this 95% of the time, but sometimes a band will have a good one that will suffice. But it is usually something an artist/band has a lot of involvement in, like Ayreon’s Timelime, instead of the usual record label money-grab compilation.
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Looking at the track list for the Best Of that Blob mentioned, you should consider it as the way to go. A great cross section. Also contains 2 Dio and 1 Gillan tracks.
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If you want a sampler, then yeah, Best Of isn't a bad idea. It'll give you an idea of what each version of the band was about, so you can dig further. But I'd still recommend either the first album or Paranoid as well because unlike many bands of their time, Black Sabbath was often album-oriented. Mini-suites with instrumentals hooked up to main songs, shorter or longer tunes that no one puts on compilations but which give you a better overall picture of the band and what they were going for, that kind of thing.
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Yeah, Sabbath really is an album oriented band. I'd trade Paranoid for SBS or Sabotage, though. The first album is vital, and while Paranoid is very good, it'd make more sense to get something from a later era, which was equally good if not better. With The Writ and Megalomania, I'd recommend Sabotage to go along with the debut album.
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Thanks guys, only know them via the radio and their hits. Didn't realize they were that album oriented.
Usually check out bands via the web and means of questionable legality, but trying to steer myself away from that.
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Try the Dio era, that's some of my favorite music period. The one two punch of heaven and hell/mob rules is amazing
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Yeah, Sabbath really is an album oriented band. I'd trade Paranoid for SBS or Sabotage, though. The first album is vital, and while Paranoid is very good, it'd make more sense to get something from a later era, which was equally good if not better. With The Writ and Megalomania, I'd recommend Sabotage to go along with the debut album.
SBS and Sabotage are my fave two Ozzy era albums!
Megalomania is incredible!!
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Try the Dio era, that's some of my favorite music period. The one two punch of heaven and hell/mob rules is amazing
Never was much of a Sabbath fan apart from these two albums.
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Heaven And Hell is a TAC Top 25, and nothing with Ozzy even comes close, but if someone is going to start with Black Sabbath it HAS to be Ozzy era.
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Been in an old school Sabbath mood lately, was spinning Sabotage and Vol 4 just the other day, man the nostalgia.
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Ah, old Sabbath. Lazyass summer music at its finest. I'd almost forgotten how awesome Master of Reality is. I'd say it's their best, even in spite of being barely a wank long. Sweet Leaf, Lord of this world, and Into the Void are all top 5 songs. The latter's my top song, full-stop.
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Into the Void was probably the heaviest song of the 70's, full-stop.
Even with death metal, black metal and post-shoegaze grindcore around, it's still crushing today.
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You are right, I listened to MOR, SBS, S, and V4 all the other day and remembered just how heavy they were and really, they are more powerful than most of my heavy metal/death/black metal albums.
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Into the Void was probably the heaviest song of the 70's, full-stop.
After Megalomania, Into The Void is my 2nd fave Ozzy era track.
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In past years, I never really appreciated Megalomania, but after listening to the album the other day, it blew me away.
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In past years, I never really appreciated Megalomania, but after listening to the album the other day, it blew me away.
Hell yeah, mate! :metal :metal
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What does everyone think of Technical Ecstasy and Never Say Die? I personally enjoy them, but not to the extent of the first six. However, I think "Dirty Woman" is one of my favorite Sabbath tracks period.
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Never Say Die is a great album, haven't listened to TE enough to say.
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What does everyone think of Technical Ecstasy and Never Say Die? I personally enjoy them, but not to the extent of the first six. However, I think "Dirty Woman" is one of my favorite Sabbath tracks period.
I'm a fan of both but I probably am the biggest fan of Never Say Die! here so I have it above TE.
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Just yesterday I had the most random urge to listen to Never Say Die (just the title track). Then I listened to some Sabbath for the first time in ages. I really need to get more full albums, because I have surprisingly few.
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Which one's do you have, anyhow?
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Every single song on Never Say Die is fantastic IMO.
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Never Say Die is a great album, haven't listened to TE enough to say.
Pretty much this. Whenever people discuss underrated albums I always bring up Never Say Die. A really great album.
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The first side is solid and the other's not half bad. I wouldn't put it up there with the first 3 or 4, but it's about as good as Sabbath Bloody Sabbath.
I've only heard Technical Ecstacy once and remember nothing.
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TE is a great album too. You have Dirty Women, All Moving Parts, Rock N Roll Doctor, Back Street Kids and my personal fav You Won't Change Me, one of Sabbath's most underrated songs.
Saying that still, NSD >>> TE
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Which one's do you have, anyhow?
From the Ozzy era, I have Paranoid, Master of Reality, Vol 4, Sabotage, and a 2 disc best of. That's actually not quite as bad as I thought now that I look at it, but it's still lacking.
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If you're looking to get more, get the self-titled. It's pretty much in-line with Paranoid and such, all trippy and jammy, assuming you like that version of Sabbath. The other one I'd recommend is Sabbath Bloody Sabbath. It's lighter and more rock than metal at times, but there are some heavy tunes, as well. It does have a couple short, weirdass fillers, but unlike the ones on Master of Reality, they are longer and outlast their welcome. The albums's still good. Technical Ecstacy and Never Say Die could be real good or disappointing; opinions tend to skew positive or way, way negative. They're a lot less heavy than the first 6 and even throw in random synths, but AFAIC, the latter has it's fair share of good tunes.
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Fortunate to say I caught the original line-up at Ozzfest 2004 & 2005. Although, Halford stepped in for Ozzy since he came down with bronchitis in 2004, so I have actually seen the original line-up just once.
Like the typical Sabbath fan, I prefer the first 6 albums with Ozzy (although, Dirty Women from Technical Ecstacy is one of my top Sabbath songs) and the 3 albums with Dio. The albums with Tony Martin aren't bad either...
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Two weeks until I see Sabbath with Ozzy at Lollapalooza. Should be fun.
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Legendary heavy metal band BLACK SABBATH has set "13" as the title of its new album. The group's first LP with Ozzy Osbourne since 1978 will be released in June via Vertigo/Universal Republic in the U.S. and Vertigo in all other territories. The drum tracks on the CD were laid down by RAGE AGAINST THE MACHINE sticksman Brad Wilk following original drummer Bill Ward's decision to bow out of the reunion.
Huh? Did not expect him to be the drummer but of course that was just a session job for him so it dosen't mean he will tour with them. He is a good drummer no doubt about that, just unexpected.
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I get that it's just a number associated with bad luck and that's probably the only reason. But I was trying to figure if there was an alternative interpretation.
If you were to discount everything but the Osbourne and Dio albums...this would be #12. Can't really count the live album unless you count them both. Maybe if you count the best of collection WSOSFRNR???
Or have I been a DT fan for so long, I just look for nuggetz everywhere? :loser: :coolio
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Just today, my friend said that Sabbath is a grunge band.
Ooookay.
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I'm not that excited about the new album but I may try to see them live if they end up doing a full North American tour.
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Shoulda gotten Portnoy
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Shoulda gotten Portnoy
Not sure if joking or not, but no. He wouldn't really fit Black Sabbath's sound.
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Weird drummer choice. I still don't know why Vinny Appice isn't involved. Maybe there's a reason, I just missed it.
Also, Cross Purposes is incredible.
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Shoulda gotten Portnoy
Not sure if joking or not, but no. He wouldn't really fit Black Sabbath's sound.
joking of course.. too lazy for green text.
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Weird drummer choice. I still don't know why Vinny Appice isn't involved. Maybe there's a reason, I just missed it.
Also, Cross Purposes is incredible.
Vinnie's in Kill Devil Hill, and as I recall, he pretty much put that band together. When Bill Ward bowed out, Kill Devil Hill was in their debut album/tour cycle.
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I've heard two tracks from the last Ozzy album and they both sucked, and were autotuned to death.
I don't think I'm even looking forward to this new Sabbath album.
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I've heard two tracks from the last Ozzy album and they both sucked, and were autotuned to death.
Or as I like to call it, "Weekend at Ozzy's". It's the first Ozzy album that I've found no redeeming value in. I even liked several tracks on Black Rain.
Hopefully the style of the Sabbath album will be a bit more fitting, and a bit less overproduced. I'll give it a chance.
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I've heard two tracks from the last Ozzy album and they both sucked, and were autotuned to death.
Or as I like to call it, "Weekend at Ozzy's". It's the first Ozzy album that I've found no redeeming value in. I even liked several tracks on Black Rain.
The redeeming quality in Black Rain (IMO) was Zakk. I can't stand Gus G or whatever his name is...
Funny... I have been on a Sabbath kick the last week oir so. I can't wait for new album
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The problem with Gus G's playing on the last album was...he was basically told "play it like Zakk." Absolutely none of his personality as a guitar player came through...not that the shitty songs on that album would have been helped by that, but Gus doesn't naturally play like Zakk Wylde.
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>_>
<_<
I liked the last Ozzy album.
*flees*
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The problem with Gus G's playing on the last album was...he was basically told "play it like Zakk." Absolutely none of his personality as a guitar player came through...not that the shitty songs on that album would have been helped by that, but Gus doesn't naturally play like Zakk Wylde.
Pretty much! I listened to it with an open mind... (even though I am a Zakk fan boy in ways) and it just sounded... forced.
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>_>
<_<
I liked the last Ozzy album.
*flees*
Same here
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I've heard two tracks from the last Ozzy album and they both sucked, and were autotuned to death.
I don't think I'm even looking forward to this new Sabbath album.
Yeah, I'm kinda in the same boat. Add to that my unwillingness to give any money to Ozzy and his filthy cunt wife. At the same time, given Tony Iommi's health, I'm pretty sure I'll have to go and see them on tour. I suppose I'll have to buy a ticket from somebody who didn't pay for theirs; shouldn't prove too difficult. As for the show, it'll be a greatest hits thing with 2 new songs and suspiciously flawless vocals. I'll get to see Geezer and Tony and lots of titties while Iommi shreds his way through Dirty Women.
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Gus wasn't given a chance on that album. Short solos spots and really he had no room to show what he was capable of. The songs were shit, Gus is not to blame.
I'm also not looking forward to this. I would take a Who Cares album, another Iommi solo album with Hughes, or a new album with Tony Martin anyday of the week.
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I would take a Who Cares album,
Wasn't that the Project with Jon Lord, Newsted and others?
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>_>
<_<
I liked the last Ozzy album.
*flees*
Same here
Me 3 ;)
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Dave Mustaine is gonna sue!
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No, because they aren't spelling it like a 5 year old
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The problem with Gus G's playing on the last album was...he was basically told "play it like Zakk." Absolutely none of his personality as a guitar player came through...not that the shitty songs on that album would have been helped by that, but Gus doesn't naturally play like Zakk Wylde.
It sounds nothing like Zakk Wylde to me (at least, nothing like the Zakk Wylde era Ozzy stuff). It's just slop. It looks like he doesn't even have a writing credit on the album. Why even bother getting someone who contributes nothing?
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I would take a Who Cares album,
Wasn't that the Project with Jon Lord, Newsted and others?
That's the one. The two tracks they did were killer.
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Yes. They were.
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I saw Black Sabbath at Lolla and Ozzy's vocals were quite good. I'm not sure how I feel about a new Sabbath album from this lineup though.
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BIRMINGHAM, ENGLAND (January 13, 2013)--Today, the 13th of January 2013, rock legends BLACK SABBATH have announced the title of their new album, 13, which will be released this June (exact date TBA). The original BLACK SABBATH--OZZY OSBOURNE (vocals), TONY IOMMI (guitar) and GEEZER BUTLER (bass)--have recorded the album primarily in Los Angeles and were joined at the sessions by drummer Brad Wilk (Rage Against The Machine). Produced by Rick Rubin (seven-time Grammy winner, two of those as Producer of the Year), the album will be released on Vertigo (worldwide) and Vertigo/Republic in the U.S. 13 marks the Grammy-winning, Rock and Roll Hall of Fame inductees’ return to Vertigo, the band’s original label; it’s the group’s first studio album together since 1978’s Never Say Die! They have sold over 70 million albums together.
You lost me at Rick Rubin.
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I saw Black Sabbath at Lolla and Ozzy's vocals were quite good. I'm not sure how I feel about a new Sabbath album from this lineup though.
If he makes it to the venue and remembers the lyrics, Ozzy usually sings just fine. Keep in mind that unless you're talking about Spiral Architect of The Writ or something, Ozzy's vocals have never been of the sort that he'd have too hard a time pulling them off. And of course tuning down always helps. Most importantly, don't play SBS!
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I saw Black Sabbath at Lolla and Ozzy's vocals were quite good. I'm not sure how I feel about a new Sabbath album from this lineup though.
If he makes it to the venue and remembers the lyrics, Ozzy usually sings just fine. Keep in mind that unless you're talking about Spiral Architect of The Writ or something, Ozzy's vocals have never been of the sort that he'd have too hard a time pulling them off. And of course tuning down always helps. Most importantly, don't play SBS!
Bart, Spiral Architect and The Writ are two of my favorite Ozzy era tracks!!
Ozzy can always rely on the karaoke machine for his lyrics like he usually does.
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Spiral Architect is my favourite Sabbath song ever, by any era.
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Yeah, we won't be hearing either of those live ever again, and honestly, it's for the best. Like I said, Ozzy can sing detuned versions of most of their songs just fine, but those would be train wrecks. In looking at a couple of recent videos, it would seem that he teases people with the beginning of SBS, which segues into Paranoid before the vocals come in. Another song he wouldn't stand a chance of pulling off live.
Checked out Who Cares last night. Wasn't particularly impressed with Holy Water; sounds like modern DP, really. Out of my Mind was fucking outstanding, though. Agree with others. They should have done more if they were capable of that.
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Spiral Architect is my favourite Sabbath song ever, by any era.
The version on the Reunion live album is incredible.
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"Warning" is freaking awesome.
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Spiral Architect is my favourite Sabbath song ever, by any era.
The version on the Reunion live album is incredible.
Ozzy's a little rough, but he was able to pull it off and it wasn't a disaster so I'd give it a thumbs up.
"Warning" is freaking awesome.
Yeah, that ain't no shit. The whole suite's awesome.
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Spiral Architect is my favourite Sabbath song ever, by any era.
The version on the Reunion live album is incredible.
Ozzy's a little rough, but he was able to pull it off and it wasn't a disaster so I'd give it a thumbs up.
"Warning" is freaking awesome.
Yeah, that ain't no shit. The whole suite's awesome.
When is Ozzy not a little rough? :lol
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This clip sounds so good. Artwork isn't bad either. :metal
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d4p86ALnIzo&feature=player_embedded (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d4p86ALnIzo&feature=player_embedded)
(https://www.blabbermouth.net/soulflypremiere/sabbath13cover.jpg)
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Nice artwork. Very simple, but Black Sabbath really doesn't need an attention grabber cover at this point. The sample got me interested as well.
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Absolutely! Looking forward to them announcing the tour schedule..... :metal
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Not a fan of that artwork at all to be honest. It's just not Sabbath in any way.
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Did anyone ever figure out where the 13 came from? There's only been 8 Ozzy albums, and 11 if you include the three Dio albums. If you include Live Evil you'd have to include Reunion as well, which would make this 14.
I'm confused...
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Nevermind. Just read on Wiki that the title was taken from both the year of release, and the fact 13 tracks will be on the album.
Mystery solved.
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I don't like the cover art, but I'm digging the snippet. It sounded heavy, but classic Sabbath heavy, not modern high gain sludge heavy. And Ozzy was sounding better than on his last couple of solo albums. Nothing amazing of course, but it seems like the realistic best case so far.
I'm a bit more optimistic about this now.
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new interview with Ozzy about the album: https://www.blabbermouth.net/news.aspx?mode=Article&newsitemID=188376&utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter (https://www.blabbermouth.net/news.aspx?mode=Article&newsitemID=188376&utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter)
"three seven-plus-minute behemoths" :metal
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I am so looking forward to this :metal
Not sure about the cover though.
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I like the cover- simple but effective. Snippet sounds promising, looking forward to hearing more of it.
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The very first part of the snippet sounded like something from the Martin era to me. It's sounds okay, we'll see.
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Ozzy came across like a really honest guy in that interview. The part where he talks about finding the mistakes makes me realize they really cared about this album turning out well.
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Album art is meh, but that doesn't matter, it's Black Fucking Sabbath, they're past that point where they need great album art, it's a non-factor, and I really liked that snippet so I'm even more excited for the album now :)
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The snippet reminded me of the opening riffing in Hole In The Sky.
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Artwork is great. Snippet was great, old Sabbath sounding. But a 10 sec. Clip doesn't do it justice at all....can't wait for a full songto appear soon.
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I like the album art. I have a bunch of Dio and Ozzy albums, but this will be my first Black Sabbath purchase.
I'm weird like that.
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So a thirty second snippet and everyone´s pretty exited, eh? ;)
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It's even funnier when you realize it's 20 seconds long. ;D
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Thinking about doing a Sabbath survivor.
https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=36576.0
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I say go!
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Go to the thread please and vote.
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I voted.
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Sabbath survivor starting tonight, get reday.
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Out April 19.
(https://www.blabbermouth.net/soulflypremiere/sabbathgodsingle.jpg)
https://www.amazon.com/God-Is-Dead/dp/B00CBEPK08/ref=sr_shvl_album_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1366010591&sr=301-1 (https://www.amazon.com/God-Is-Dead/dp/B00CBEPK08/ref=sr_shvl_album_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1366010591&sr=301-1)
Pretty interesting that the first single is the longest track on the album. Can't wait to hear it!
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So with that kind of track length, this should be as signature Sabbath as to be expected from the album, which I'm hoping is why they chose it. I can't wait!
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https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=36624.0
Survivor has started.
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From Ozzy's Facebook (https://www.facebook.com/ozzyosbourne/posts/10151607133627318):
"For the last year and a half I have been drinking and taking drugs. I was in a very dark place and was an asshole to the people I love most, my family. However, I am happy to say that I am now 44 days sober.
Just to set the record straight, Sharon and I are not divorcing. I’m just trying to be a better person.
I would like to apologize to Sharon, my family, my friends and my band mates for my insane behavior during this period………and my fans.
God Bless,
Ozzy"
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44 days? Whoa. I thought he'd cleaned up permanently a while back, but apparently he slipped. I guess nothing is permanent when you're Ozzy. I'm not ragging on him. He is who he is. Still a damned shame.
Wait... so the new album was recorded while he was drinking and drugging? I'm trying to figure out if that's good or bad, for the music.
So many conflicted feelings.
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You´re not the only one, with mixed emotions. ::)
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Here's the new song: https://consequenceofsound.net/2013/04/listen-to-black-sabbaths-new-song-god-is-dead/ (https://consequenceofsound.net/2013/04/listen-to-black-sabbaths-new-song-god-is-dead/)
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Here's the new song: https://consequenceofsound.net/2013/04/listen-to-black-sabbaths-new-song-god-is-dead/ (https://consequenceofsound.net/2013/04/listen-to-black-sabbaths-new-song-god-is-dead/)
I'd give it a listen right now, but alas my World Religions class just started. The irony here is killing me.
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I'm torn. I tend to agree with my stepson who said that if he had waited 35 years for *that*, it would be underwhelming. However, it is 1) better than I expected and 2) *FAR* better than anything Ozzy has done since No More Tears.
It does feel *a bit* like "Sabbath by the numbers", but it wasn't bad. Just....safe. I know that releasing the long song first was a bit of a risk, but I'm speaking of the nature of the song itself. It's got that Sabbath "mood"....but it just doesn't feel as dangerous and scary as the original stuff did. But I'm sure hardcore Sabbath fans will hail it as a return to form.
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I ♥ Radio On Demand
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I ♥ Radio On Demand
:lol Came in here to post that. Pretty fucking annoying.
Halfway through the song now -- I'll voice my thoughts when the song's over.
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It was alright. The best part about the song was the sound -- the bass in particular sounds kickass. On the whole it was kind of repetitive and plodding. Hopefully that's one of the weaker songs on the album.
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Yeah, it did sound good. The song itself just wasn't that interesting, but this is coming from someone who stopped finding Black Sabbath interesting a long time ago. I kinda was hoping for something to respark my interest, but I would've settled for anything that caught my attention. I got about halfway through it, and the "I ♥ Radio" announcements every minute or so just got so annoying that it wasn't worth it. I wanted to give the song a fair chance, and I suppose I failed. Or it failed, or I ♥ Radio failed, or something.
It was a return to form, really, but in a way, that's the problem that so many bands like Black Sabbath have. Fans want to feel the same magic they did when they first put on Paranoid or even the debut album. But it can't just be more of the same. It has to be better, or go further, or somehow be a modern take on the classic sound, or something. But it can never be all of these things at once, and let's face it, 35-40 years later, it's not even going to be close. So I'm willing to settle for "pretty good, they've still got it" as I am with any band that's still making new music after all these years. The problem is, I didn't hear anything to convince me of that.
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Sounded boring to me, and lacked any sort of drive or power. Sounds like old Sabbath I guess, just without any spark.
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The three main problems for me are the unnecessarily long intro part, the lack of variety riff-wise, and the lack of a solo. Otherwise it's actually a pretty good song. I give it 8/10.
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Hmmmm....quite boring IMO. And seriously, no solo? It doesn't sound like Sabbath really, to me it sounds like it could have come off of Iommi's last album Fused. Saying that, I think this would have been better with Glenn Hughes, or even Tony Martin, Ozzy has just lost it for me. The faster part was nice but the slower parts were too long and repetitive.
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Better quality version at 53:20 https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b01rv4z1/Zane_Lowe_Sebastian_Ingrosso_and_Ozzy_Osbourne/ (https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b01rv4z1/Zane_Lowe_Sebastian_Ingrosso_and_Ozzy_Osbourne/)
Edit: The solo's in this version! Pretty short though.
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Official version: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wVfUimq2KeI (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wVfUimq2KeI)
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Pretty good but could have been better. I think Ozzy did well for what was in the song. Bass sounds great! Was actually disappointed with Iommi's riffs early in the song.. doesn't really kick in much at all till near the end. I'd initially judge it 7.5/10. Not bad but still hoping for some gems in the rest of the material.
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I liked it. Not the greatest song, but it was very Sabbath-y, and the change in feel near the end was classic stuff. The production sounded really nice and clear, and not overcompressed. Oh man, Geezer's bass at the end. :metal
If the whole album is at least of this quality, I'll be happy, although it would need a fair bit to beat The Devil You Know.
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Official version: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wVfUimq2KeI (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wVfUimq2KeI)
I'm actually pretty cool with that. It does seem like it's a bit long and complex just for the sake of length and complexity. Would probably have been better at 6 minutes than 9. That said, I really liked the vocal structure and melody. And as usual, Gezzer's the fucking man. While I'm alright with the drums, they're not particularly Sabbathy. Still, better than I was expecting, and I certainly didn't expect Ozzy to be the strongest part of the song.
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Official version: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wVfUimq2KeI (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wVfUimq2KeI)
I'm actually pretty cool with that. It does seem like it's a bit long and complex just for the sake of length and complexity. Would probably have been better at 6 minutes than 9. That said, I really liked the vocal structure and melody. And as usual, Gezzer's the fucking man. While I'm alright with the drums, they're not particularly Sabbathy. Still, better than I was expecting, and I certainly didn't expect Ozzy to be the strongest part of the song.
Ozzy is definitely sounding better than his last couple of solo albums, and didn't sound so pitch corrected. It doesn't seem like he'll be a big liability on the album.
I didn't have a problem with the drums. While they weren't distinctly Sabbath-y, I don't think they were distinctly unSabbath-y either. They were safe. I'm ok with that.
At least you always know Tony and Geezer are going to bring it. :hat
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I wasn't too crazy about it either. It's mostly way too slow for too long, it really drags until 6:20 where something finally happens. Aside from that section, there wasn't anything I really liked, and I did miss a slightly more epic guitar solo.
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Official version: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wVfUimq2KeI (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wVfUimq2KeI)
I'm actually pretty cool with that. It does seem like it's a bit long and complex just for the sake of length and complexity. Would probably have been better at 6 minutes than 9. That said, I really liked the vocal structure and melody. And as usual, Gezzer's the fucking man. While I'm alright with the drums, they're not particularly Sabbathy. Still, better than I was expecting, and I certainly didn't expect Ozzy to be the strongest part of the song.
Ozzy is definitely sounding better than his last couple of solo albums, and didn't sound so pitch corrected. It doesn't seem like he'll be a big liability on the album.I didn't have a problem with the drums. While they weren't distinctly Sabbath-y, I don't think they were distinctly unSabbath-y either. They were safe. I'm ok with that.
At least you always know Tony and Geezer are going to bring it. :hat
As a commentor on that site said, he's singing in the key of "talk" though. Not exactly taxing on the vocals.
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The song is alright. A little too plodding though. Surprised they would pick this as the first single; not likely to get much, if any, radio play.
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Just listened to the song again for the second time, it's not bad actually. I really quite like teh production and sound on it to be honest, I like the mix of the guitar and bass, the volumes mesh well together. Although Ozzy's vocals could be a tad lower.
It's still a little plodding, but it works okay. Still reminds me of Fused and really you can't compare this to anything pre Never Say Die.
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Official version: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wVfUimq2KeI (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wVfUimq2KeI)
I'm actually pretty cool with that. It does seem like it's a bit long and complex just for the sake of length and complexity. Would probably have been better at 6 minutes than 9. That said, I really liked the vocal structure and melody. And as usual, Gezzer's the fucking man. While I'm alright with the drums, they're not particularly Sabbathy. Still, better than I was expecting, and I certainly didn't expect Ozzy to be the strongest part of the song.
Ozzy is definitely sounding better than his last couple of solo albums, and didn't sound so pitch corrected. It doesn't seem like he'll be a big liability on the album.I didn't have a problem with the drums. While they weren't distinctly Sabbath-y, I don't think they were distinctly unSabbath-y either. They were safe. I'm ok with that.
At least you always know Tony and Geezer are going to bring it. :hat
As a commentor on that site said, he's singing in the key of "talk" though. Not exactly taxing on the vocals.
Ye Gods! Does anybody actually want to hear Ozzy taxed? The dude's strong suit has always been vocal melodies, and I'd prefer he leave it at that.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=d7wkNL9oR_8#!
New Black Sabbath song played live. Sound quality isn't bad, Ozzy doesn't sound great. As for the song, a little slow and drawn out, and channeling the song Black Sabbath BIG time.
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Heard the song on the radio at the gym the other day. I thought it was all right. Got a War Pigs vibe here and there.
-J
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and channeling the song Black Sabbath BIG time.
DEFINITELY. I felt like I knew the song before I ever heard it. :lol
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=d7wkNL9oR_8#!
New Black Sabbath song played live. Sound quality isn't bad, Ozzy doesn't sound great. As for the song, a little slow and drawn out, and channeling the song Black Sabbath BIG time.
I dunno, I actually really like this song. Can't wait to hear the studio version! :metal
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I agree with Lord Snow.
I feel like this is going to be a great album
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=d7wkNL9oR_8#!
New Black Sabbath song played live. Sound quality isn't bad, Ozzy doesn't sound great. As for the song, a little slow and drawn out, and channeling the song Black Sabbath BIG time.
I dunno, I actually really like this song. Can't wait to hear the studio version! :metal
I liked the song too, especially the outro section with the guitar solo. I don't have a problem with it being inspired by their older stuff, I just thought the comparison was pretty obvious in this case. :metal
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I'm excited about this and the tour.
I so wanna see Symptom of the Universe live.
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the CSI performance: https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=zVWH9v6w-mE (https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=zVWH9v6w-mE)
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Pretty blatant cross promotion there, but from Sabbath I'll allow it. :lol
Ozzy sounds better than he did on his last solo album, and it sounds very Sabbathy. The production sounds good too, not too heavy or overcompressed, and I can hear dat bass clearly. Of course, that's only based on CSI, but it's a good start!
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There's.. there's no hot young girls dancing at the front line of a Black Sabbath audience..
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CSI, putting the meticulous effort into accuracy as always. Black Sabbath don't play for sluts in night clubs.
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Why is Tommy good enough to tour and be present here but not to play on the album.
Also, what a shameless, promotion, why are they even on CSI?
Plus, :lol @ the crowd.
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Pretty lame scene overall, but the song sounded good. And the one girl in the front row had nice cans.
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Totally shameless, but you do what you have to do. CSI is a popular show, and a large percent of the audience is old enough to be Black Sabbath fans. They may not know that there's a new album coming out. Gotta get the word out, get some interest generated.
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Damn copyright claim. I wanted to see the nice cans. :(
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Pretty lame scene overall, but the song sounded good. And the one girl in the front row had nice cans.
Yeah, the blonde, noticed that too.
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There's.. there's no hot young girls dancing at the front line of a Black Sabbath audience..
Damn, still need to send you my Ozfest review. :lol
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Why was the CSI cameo considered a "World Premiere of End of the Beginning" when it was only like 3:00 of an 8:00 song? Unless I missed something...
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This drummer is at the wrong gig (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BW_YNzd5hvY&feature=endscreen&NR=1)
And Ozzy really sounds terrible in the videos I've seen thus far.
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He sounds like Ozzy to me. Pretty good for his age and condition. I'm sure there are still ants crawling around in his brain.
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Whole album's streaming!!
https://itunes.apple.com/us/artist/black-sabbath/id165907 (https://itunes.apple.com/us/artist/black-sabbath/id165907)
Edit: Loner, The End of the Beginning, Zeitgeist, and Damaged Soul are my standouts. It could use a little more variety, but 13 is still better than I expected. And Ozzy actually sounds pretty good.
Overall I'm leaning towards a 9/10 after two listens.
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As a side note, the Best Buy version of the deluxe edition will have an extra track in addition to the other three. Just in case anyone cares. :millahhhh
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How do I stream the album? I go to the Itunes page and it only shows "God is Dead?", and only as a preview ???
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https://gunshyassassin.com/news/black-sabbath-new-album-stream-available/
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Nevermind, it suddenly worked, schweet.
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Giving it my first spin through now. Will post my thoughts on it once I've listened to it once or twice. :metal
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Just finished listening to the album for the first time. I won't write a full-on review until I've heard it a few more times, but I'll say this. There's two immediate brand new Black Sabbath classics IMO (Age of Reason and Dear Father), four great songs that I might come to like even more with repeated listens (Loner, Zeigeist, Live Forever, Damaged Souls), one pretty good song that seems to work a lot better in a live setting than it does on the album (End of the Beginning) and one 'meh' song (God Is Dead?).
Granted, I initially liked GID a good bit, but it wore off pretty quickly. VERY surprised by how great this album is. Doubt it will be the Album of the Year for me, but very likely to be somewhere in my Top Ten this year.
I'd probably give the album a 9 out of 10. :metal
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Wow, unexpected. Thanks for the review, such as it is.
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Wow, unexpected. Thanks for the review, such as it is.
Yeah, I'm in the middle of my second listen through right now, and I can definitely say that the album really picks up after the first two songs. I haven't heard any of the bonus tracks, but I almost feel like the album might have been better if they had switched out End of the Beginning and God Is Dead? with one of those songs. Just a guess.
But yeah, Age of Reason absolutely slays. :metal
EDIT: Hearing it a second time, I think I'll move Damaged Souls up to classic status with Age of Reason and Dear Father. Very, very nice stuff on this song. :metal :tup :hefdaddy
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How do I listen to it if I don't have and never will have iTunes?
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How do I listen to it if I don't have and never will have iTunes?
Wait until June 11th to buy the CD? :tup
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How do I listen to it if I don't have and never will have iTunes?
Wait until June 11th to buy the CD? :tup
Yeeeeeeeahhh............. I'm sure I'll find another way. This is the internet. :lol
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Seems to be a pretty good album IMO. I really enjoyed "Age of Reason" and "Damaged Soul" on first listen. Won't spoil it (it could be well known news for all I know) but there is a pretty significant ending to the album "Dear Father" that most will catch immediately. :tup
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Managed to listen to the stream. On first listen, it feels a bit samey with the exception of Planet Caravan pt 2 in the middle. I think the opening track is my favourite so far, and I think it had the best vocals.
The rest of the album felt like it all had the slow doomy opening section, then switches to the swung 6/8 kind of feel with a lot of soloing till the end. All of the band performances are really good, and the production sounds like it's going to be great, so hopefully it will grow on me over time.
Seems to be a pretty good album IMO. I really enjoyed "Age of Reason" and "Damaged Soul" on first listen. Won't spoil it (it could be well known news for all I know) but there is a pretty significant ending to the album "Dear Father" that most will catch immediately. :tup
I finished listening to it a few minutes after reading this, and knew exactly what it was going to be from this comment alone. Predictably obvious, but still neat.
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SPOILERS MAYBE BUT NOT REALLY
Iommi is absolutely on fire. The doom in these riffs is phenomenal. Geezer sounds great too. The bass tone sound a tad over processed, but still great. Brad Wilk did a good job at playing well, and powerfully, but also kept his place in the reunion. Didn't overplay, just rocked out. Ozzy has a few standout moments, but overall I'd have to say he's the weakest link on this album. I ge that he's old and obviously unable to perform like he used to, and given that he did a good job. Saying that he's the weakest link isn't saying that he's weak, the others just performed better.
Standout tracks for me are: Dear Father, Loner, Zeitgeist, and End of the Beginning.
I'm holding this at a 7.5/10 for now. I forsee it getting better with age.
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After two full streams of the album I'm ready to say I'm BLOWN AWAY! They outdid themselves...this coming from someone who grew up on the Ozzy albums as they were released. Personally, I feel that Ozzy, Iommi, and Butler hit the ball out of the park. It's phenomenal really what they have done after all these years. The chemistry is undeniable. My hats off to them all.
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They definately hit a home run with this album, and I love the classic Sabbath sound. I set my expectations moderately low on purpose, but this was a very pleasant surprise indeed. :metal
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End of the Beginning and Age Of Reason are instant classics.
Edit million years later:Nah,they're mediocre.
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Just heard Methademic. That song will hit you like a ton of bricks. Heaviest track on the album.
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Never Say Die Survivor has started in the polls section.
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Picked up the 2 cd edition yesterday. I really had no expectations for this cause I haven't been too keen on Ozzy and his last couple of albums. I gotta say after only one spin, this is a really great album. Tony's riffs are incredible and the production is pretty stellar and thick. The first two songs are highlights as is the closer. Love the ending too, nice touch.
Also, I don't know why anyone wouldn't buy the 2 cd edition for only $2 extra. Methademic is by far the heaviest and could be the most exciting song on the whole album, awesome. Pariah is worthy too. Ozzy sounds good, not great, but considering his state and his vocals lately, they have written around his voice really well.
Really surprising album.
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Yeah I like this one a lot. Great album.
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I'm really trying to give a listen to the new album, but I keep returning to the classics all day instead. Maybe tomorrow. :lol
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Don't need to add anything to this discussion except: this could be my personal best album of 2013. Well, wait until DT delivers its effort :lol
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Has anyone heard the other bonus track Naïveté in Black?
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Some people I talked to didn't even know the song existed. Gotta remember to get to Best Buy on Tuesday. Hope that song's worth the extra gas. :lol
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Lyrics are up: https://lyrics.wikia.com/Black_Sabbath:13_%282013%29 (https://lyrics.wikia.com/Black_Sabbath:13_%282013%29)
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I say it´s a rocking album. Big thumbs up from me.
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Wow, I'm impressed. It sounds pretty much like the sound from their first four 70's albums, but with modern production. It's pretty cool listening to dirty Black Sabbath, only clean sounding. If that makes any sense.
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Wow, I'm impressed. It sounds pretty much like the sound from their first four 70's albums, but with modern production. It's pretty cool listening to dirty Black Sabbath, only clean sounding. If that makes any sense.
It makes perfect sense. It's modern, but still screams classic Sabbath.
I'm still kind of indifferent to the album after 3 full listens. It's enjoyable enough to stick on and listen to as a whole, but aside from the first track or two, nothing really jumps out at me as a keeper. I really dig the first track a lot though.
I really want to love this album. It's got Tony ripping loose in every song, lots of Sabbathesque riffage, Ozzy sounding decent for him, and Geezer being Geezer. Most of the songs just blur together though. Maybe I'll feel differently after a few more listens.
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Age of reason shows potential. :metal
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I kind of like Zeitgeist. Sounds like a Planet Caravan 2.0 but it has great stuff in it.
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I kind of like Zeitgeist. Sounds like a Planet Caravan 2.0 but it has great stuff in it.
When I first heard that song, I laughed the second the percussion came in. It's sooooo Planet Caravan 2.0. Not a bad song though, especially the leads further in.
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Does this mean that somewhere out there, Bill Ward will be implying that Black Sabbath is trying to rewrite history? :P :lol :lol
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I actually laughed at the shameless Planet Caravan Rip off. There's also a shameless verse riff of War Pigs that is ripped off too.
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Yeah, some of it is pretty shameless. It really does sound just like 70's Black Sabbath, even down to using the same riffs and everything.
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Wow, I'm impressed. It sounds pretty much like the sound from their first four 70's albums, but with modern production. It's pretty cool listening to dirty Black Sabbath, only clean sounding. If that makes any sense.
It makes perfect sense. It's modern, but still screams classic Sabbath.
I'm still kind of indifferent to the album after 3 full listens. It's enjoyable enough to stick on and listen to as a whole, but aside from the first track or two, nothing really jumps out at me as a keeper. I really dig the first track a lot though.
I really want to love this album. It's got Tony ripping loose in every song, lots of Sabbathesque riffage, Ozzy sounding decent for him, and Geezer being Geezer. Most of the songs just blur together though. Maybe I'll feel differently after a few more listens.
I did notice Ozzy doing that kind of 4th - minor 3rd - Root vocal melody quite a bit. But hey - it sounds good, so why not :P
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Does this mean that somewhere out there, Bill Ward will be implying that Black Sabbath is trying to rewrite history? :P :lol :lol
LO effin' L :tup
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I used to really like Black Sabbath back in the 70's, but eventually moved on to other things. There aren't an awful lot of Ozzy solo songs that I really like, because basically his voice just didn't do it for me anymore. To be blunt, I just found it annoying after a while. I had trouble listening to older Sabbath because I got so tired of Ozzy's voice in the 80's and 90's.
So here's the weird thing. I'm now on "Peace of Mind", the 10th song, and I just realized that Ozzy's voice isn't annoying me. At all. It's not as great as it used to be, but it suddenly occurred to me that I'm listening to Ozzy sing, but it doesn't bother me at all because it's Black Sabbath.
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I kind of like Zeitgeist. Sounds like a Planet Caravan 2.0 but it has great stuff in it.
Having heard the song now, the drum sound being similar is the only similarity. The songs are otherwise completely different.
End of the Beginning definitely has that Black Sabbath (the song) vibe, however.
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I used to really like Black Sabbath back in the 70's, but eventually moved on to other things. There aren't an awful lot of Ozzy solo songs that I really like, because basically his voice just didn't do it for me anymore. To be blunt, I just found it annoying after a while. I had trouble listening to older Sabbath because I got so tired of Ozzy's voice in the 80's and 90's.
So here's the weird thing. I'm now on "Peace of Mind", the 10th song, and I just realized that Ozzy's voice isn't annoying me. At all. It's not as great as it used to be, but it suddenly occurred to me that I'm listening to Ozzy sing, but it doesn't bother me at all because it's Black Sabbath.
Having heard the whole album now, it is funny you say this, cause the album does not remind me of early Black Sabbath at all (except for the obvious nods, like in the first song), mainly because Ozzy's voice so different now. Most of the vocals he did remind me of how his voice sounded on the Ozzmosis album, not of early Sabbath material.
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Yeah, but that's just the vocals, which to me are the least important part of a band's sound. I don't know; to me, it just "feels" like old-school Sabbath. I get the same vibe.
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I used to really like Black Sabbath back in the 70's, but eventually moved on to other things. There aren't an awful lot of Ozzy solo songs that I really like, because basically his voice just didn't do it for me anymore. To be blunt, I just found it annoying after a while. I had trouble listening to older Sabbath because I got so tired of Ozzy's voice in the 80's and 90's.
So here's the weird thing. I'm now on "Peace of Mind", the 10th song, and I just realized that Ozzy's voice isn't annoying me. At all. It's not as great as it used to be, but it suddenly occurred to me that I'm listening to Ozzy sing, but it doesn't bother me at all because it's Black Sabbath.
Having heard the whole album now, it is funny you say this, cause the album does not remind me of early Black Sabbath at all (except for the obvious nods, like in the first song), mainly because Ozzy's voice so different now. Most of the vocals he did remind me of how his voice sounded on the Ozzmosis album, not of early Sabbath material.
The vocal production reminded me of Ozzmosis in places too, I think due to the doubling/chorus kind of effect. But otherwise his vocals on Ozzmosis are some of Ozzy's best, whereas his vocals in the past decade or so have been about his worst.
A lot of the vocal melodies on this album remind me a lot of classic Sabbath though, especially when he's singing a major key kind of melody over the heavy riff.
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Yeah, I think it's the outro of the first song, but it reminds me heavily again of something from old Sabbath. I'm thinking Dirty Women.
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The video clip for God is Dead can be found on youtube. Great song, but the video is a piece of shit.
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Oh man, that video makes the one for Bible Black look like a masterpiece. Fuck yeah stock footage montage.
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I turned it off half way through. What a waste of time and money.
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Same. I made it to about the 3 minute mark, then skimmed the rest to see if it got any better, or had actual band participation in it. It's sad to watch a music video that you know you could literally have done a better job of.
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So, are you guys recommending this?
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So, are you guys recommending this?
It's pure fan service, not really relevant by itself.
If you're a 70's Sabbath fan, it's a must. If you're not, this album won't do anything for you.
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I am not even sure that is true. I am a fan of 70s Sabbath, and this album did not do a whole lot for me, so I am not sure I would go along with that kind of recommendation.
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As a fan of 70's and Dio Sabbath, I had very low expectations. I thought it would be Iommi doing, "must-be-doom-and-gloom-diminished-chords" riffs... and with Ozzy being brain-dead... I thought it was just a final kick at the can cash-grab.
I was pleasantly surprised and it's one of my favorite albums this year. :hefdaddy
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Love the Sabbath representation in This Is The End :metal
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So, are you guys recommending this?
I've had it for about a week. Bought it (the MP3 album) with Amazon.com reward points so it was technically "free" to me.
It's decent, but has a bit of a "phoned in" feel to it. It gets a little monotonous after a while with just about every track at a similar tempo.
Ozzy sounds OK, but kind of....tired. There were a few sections here and there that reminded me of the band that once wrote songs like "The Wizard" or "Sabbath Bloody Sabbath" but most of it is slow, prodding, doom.
If you're a hard-core Sabbath fan, it's probably worth owning. Had I been given a chance to hear the entire album once or twice before buying I probably would have passed on it.
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The Born Again survivor has started;
https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=37823.0
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Seventh Star survivor is up.
https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=37908.0
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The Devil You Know survivor has started.
https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=38795.0
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I've been asking myself: while Dio was the vocalist, did he sing any songs from Ozzy-era? At least Paranoid, Children of the grave, Black Sabbath, anything?
When they delivered Heaven and hell to the public, they surely didn't play only that album and nothing else. Or did they?!
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Good question. I have no idea, but I'm interested in the answer, too. Someone needs to find a setlist from that period.
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I've been asking myself: while Dio was the vocalist, did he sing any songs from Ozzy-era? At least Paranoid, Children of the grave, Black Sabbath, anything?
When they delivered Heaven and hell to the public, they surely didn't play only that album and nothing else. Or did they?!
When Dio was in the band during Heaven and Hell and Mob Rules era, of course they played Ozzy stuff, as heard on Live Evil. With Heaven and Hell they just played songs from the Devil You Know, and the 3 Dio Sabbath albums I think.
Dio sang Black Sabbath, Children of the Grave, NIB, Iron Man, War Pigs, Paranoid and I think Sweet Leaf a few times.
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Taken from RonnieJamesDio.com
Center Coliseum, Seattle, WA
19 July 1980
1. War Pigs
2. Neon Knights
3. N.I.B.
4. Children Of The Sea
5. Sweet Leaf
Drum Solo - Bill Ward
6. Black Sabbath
7. Heaven And Hell
8. Iron Man
9. Guitar Solo - Tony Iommi
10. Die Young
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Ahhhh yeah, thanks. Capable guy!
If I won a meet&greet with Black Sabbath, I think I'd ask Ozzy "WHY U NO SING MOB RULZ?" :biggrin:
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Went to the show in Phx last Friday, 8/30. Fucking awesome! Easily in my top 5 concerts of all time. :hefdaddy :2metal:
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BS to release a new DVD :heart
https://www.blabbermouth.net/news/black-sabbath-to-release-gathered-in-their-masses-dvd/
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Sabbath rules. First saw them on the Mob Rules tour in 1982, and saw them just a month ago in DC, both shows were amazing.
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13 Survivor
https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=39056.msg1676234#msg1676234
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I love the Ozzy era... and only the Ozzy era...
Didn't dig the last album...
My favorite album is... surprise: Never Say Die! :biggrin: SBS a close second.
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Never Say Die is a terrific album.
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Never Say Die is a terrific album.
Damn straight it is! Criminally underrated/dismissed.
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13 is my first ever Sabbath album with Ozzy.
I'm more of a Dio/Martin fan, but it's pretty decent and Iommi's riffs are colossal.
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https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=39287.0
Consolation rounds have started. Would love to see some more voters.
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Never Say Die is a terrific album.
Wolfking knows what he's talking about. ;)
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I had a dream I met Ozzy and he said they hope to do one more album. :p
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Never Say Die is a terrific album.
Wolfking knows what he's talking about. ;)
:metal :tup
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Never Say Die is a terrific album.
Damn straight it is! Criminally underrated/dismissed.
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https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=39576.0
Please come and vote in the finals.
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Went to a Black Sabbath (w/Ozzy) tribute band that played in my neighbourhood..... except from the usual Croatian die-hard fan syndrome tribute band members have ("We don't play our fav band's latest albums because those are soldouts, we only love the first 3-5 albums which are the real deal......" ) they delivered a great show and setlist:
1. War pigs
2. After forever
3. Fairies wear boots
4. Into the void
5. Electric funeral
6. Snowblind
7. Medley (contained instrumental parts from Heaven and hell, Sabbra Cadabra and some other, don't remember)
8. Embryo/Children of the grave
9. Sweet leaf
10. Sabbath Bloody Sabbath
11. Dirty woman
--------------------------------------------------
12. Black Sabbath
13. NIB
14. Paranoid
15. Iron Man
--------------------------------------------------
16. Crazy train
:metal
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That looks awesome. :metal
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It absolutely was! The guitar player in his 40s, who has a great reputation in town for brilliant performance in an AC/DC tribute, really injected some "live energy" into the riffs. :coolio
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https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=39938.0
Hey people, we need some help. Due to the overload of Martin era songs in the BS survivor it seems that people have turned away from it. It has become a strategic game between three of us and not much fun. At the moment we have a tie between Heaven and Hell and Sabbath Bloody Sabbath. If people could just pop in there each day and see what's going on and put a vote in where they can, they would help out a lot.
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Did my part and voted for Sabbath Bloody Sabbath.
...mind you it took a coin flip. :lol
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Those two are pretty close for me, but I had to vote for Heaven and Hell. Sorry.
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Got another tiebreaker going on. Seems to be the only way to get voters nowadays. :lol
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https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=39999.0
Little help?
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Don't know if everyone's seen this band and this 11 year old girl, but it's pretty impressive :metal :metal :metal
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vdVDy8ioG_o
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Musically, how would you describe and compare the sounds of the Heaven & Hell album, and 13?
I own 13. Love it. Especially God is Dead and the acoustic number- It's like Planet Caravan pt 2. I'v always loved Ozzy sabbath more because for the most part it's more downbeat and sinister sounding. Dio Sabbath is, for the most part, more uptempo, but still dark and heavy. But that sinister vibe isn't there.
BTW i'v always wondered who writes most of BSs lyrics. With the Dio era, did Dio write any of the lyrics? Did Ozzy write any of his BS lyrics? And who wrote the H&H lyrics, and 13s lyrics? ;) im quite curious, if anyone can tell me ;) Did BS inherit any of the dragon slaying concepts with dio?
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During the Ozzy era, 99% of the lyrics are written by Geezer.
During the Dio era, I think all lyrics were from Dio, H&H and MR definitely, not sure about Dehumanizer but I think they are Dio too.
I'm not sure about Born Again but I think perhaps lyrics are by Gillan.
On Seventh Star, I think it was both Tony and Glenn that penned the lyrics.
Tony Martin wasn't part of the writing for Eternal Idol, so I'm not sure, I think just Tony, maybe Nicholls wrote too.
I think the rest of the Tony Martin album the lyrics are from Martin.
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What about the recent H&H album, The Devil You Know? I'v yet to hear it. Did Dio write the lyrics?
And on 13, some of the lyrics i caught sounded like they were about addiction, leading me to think they were written by Ozzy. Did he do 13s lyrics?
I'v yet to hear The Devil You Know, but I'm very curious about how it compares to 13. Musically, is it as sombre and downbeat as 13? Or heavier or faster?
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The Devil You Know is mostly the slow Sabbathy stuff. The only uptempo song is Eating The Cannibals, and even that isn't super fast.
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Tony Martin wasn't part of the writing for Eternal Idol, so I'm not sure, I think just Tony, maybe Nicholls wrote too.
I think the rest of the Tony Martin album the lyrics are from Martin.
Yeah, I some snippets from an interview where he discussed writing the lyrics. The gist of it was that since he was writing Sabbath stuff he figured it all needed to be about hell and atheism and such. Iommi told him to maybe tone it down a little, so he went out and wrote Tyr about stuff that actually interested him.
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From what I know, seen read and gather, the Ozzy's only contribution to the songwriting is humming a melody.
That said some of the lyrics on 13 are pretty average by Geezer's usual high standards.
But Ozzy never wrote any lyrics during his 'solo' career.
Not sure about the Dio era stuff, though I would say it sounds mostly Dio and maybe the odd one from Geezer.
The Martin era was definitely TM, he went a little too far with The Headless Cross, with the devil, dungeon and hell stuff.
I also suspect that Geoff Nichols was uncredited for a lot of 'ghost' contributions from his various stints in BS.
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Slight OT, but how much of Ozzy's solo stuff is actually written by him? More recently. I know Zakk Wylde was kicked out partly because the material he was writing, for Scream, i believe, sounded too much like BLS. ( i actually agree with that. Black Rain is where it became too obvious. But back in the no more tears day, Zakk could write awesome Ozzy songs). I assume most he does in terms of music is hum tunes, listen to what his guitarist come up with, suggest things, listen, hum/suggest....guess i answered my own question, im sure thats how it is ;p. I forget the name of the guy replacing Zakk, but did he write a lot of Scream? Does Ozzy write his solo lyrics?
(btw, who else thinks Black Rain and Scream are very unoriginal? Black Rain had a few decent tunes, but that's it. And couldn't Ozzy just tell Zakk to write in a less BLS sounding style rather then kick him out? i mean, come on- it's zakk fuckin Wylde!)
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I don't think Ozzy does much writing music, aside from a bit of input here and there. Gus G didn't write anything at all for Scream. I don't like anything off that album, except for maybe Let Me Hear You Scream, which is merely ok. Black Rain at least had a few redeeming tracks among the filler.
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Yeah, the 80s Ozzy albums had lyrics written by Bob Daisley, who tended to co-write a lot of the music too. Lemmy actually wrote the lyrics to four songs on No More Tears, and Daisley did some uncredited lyric work on it too.
Musically, other than melodies he hums, Ozzy doesn't write music. He got credit for writing all of Bark at the Moon by himself, but that was part of the deal that Sharon cut with Bob Daisley for the writing on that album. In fact, if you want to give one person credit for who Ozzy is as a solo artist, it's Bob Daisley.
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Speaking of Bob Daisley, he only lives 10 minutes away from me, though I haven't seen him, I rarely go to the suburb he lives in.
But would be cool to meet him someday.
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Speaking of Bob Daisley, he only lives 10 minutes away from me, though I haven't seen him, I rarely go to the suburb he lives in.
But would be cool to meet him someday.
Wait, aren't you an Aussie? So he lives here?
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Yes and Yes and Bob is also and Aussie.
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Fuck, I never knew that.
I guess that explains how the Living Loud project happened. I loved that album with Jimmy Barnes, I wish they did more albums.
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Daisly seems like a really cool guy, and he's a rock solid player; always been a fan. There's an extended interview with him on Youtube where he discusses all of his projects, but obviously provides some real insights into the whole Blizzard of Ozz thing (and Ozzy's cunt wife).
Personally, I always greatly preferred Diary for the simple reason that while Blizzard was primarily Airy/Rhodes driven while Diary was all about Daisly and Kerslake. Those two made that album awesome.
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Daisley also just released his autobiography, For Fact's Sake.
I must pick it up.
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You guys should check out the Living Loud project with Daisley and Kerslake. Also features Steve Morse, Jimmy Barnes and Don Airey. Half the album was Ozzy covers and the other half was original material. The album is really excellent. More rock style and the Ozzy covers were pretty different, but they were cool.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LEHXx3b4Qk8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eXQ-MWmKJDk
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Fuck, I never knew that.
That makes 2 of us! So where abouts does Bob Daisley live these days?
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Back in the day, there was a song that just happened to appear on my computer. I featured Ozzy, Lemmy, and Slash on guitar. What CD was this released on? Maybe a Slash album? BTW, does Slash have any band he's in? Cuz that guy is a living legend, is he just doing solo stuff, are there singers? I'm out of the loop with Slash. I do remember when Velvet Revolver split. That disappointed me, cuz i actually liked their music and I want to see Slash in a BAND, cuz thats here i guy like his should be.
Back to Black Sabbath. 13 is really kickass. Really really great way to end a career. Too bad Ozzy will probably keep doing bland albums like Scream. 13 would be a great career topper. Not just for Ozzy, but all of them.
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Back in the day, there was a song that just happened to appear on my computer. I featured Ozzy, Lemmy, and Slash on guitar. What CD was this released on? Maybe a Slash album? BTW, does Slash have any band he's in? Cuz that guy is a living legend, is he just doing solo stuff, are there singers? I'm out of the loop with Slash. I do remember when Velvet Revolver split. That disappointed me, cuz i actually liked their music and I want to see Slash in a BAND, cuz thats here i guy like his should be.
Back to Black Sabbath. 13 is really kickass. Really really great way to end a career. Too bad Ozzy will probably keep doing bland albums like Scream. 13 would be a great career topper. Not just for Ozzy, but all of them.
Well Slash is doing his own thing with Myles Kennedy... I'd consider them a band... kinda
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I like the Crowley cover a lot. The original song isn't really my thing, but still very well done (hard not to be given the talent). I'd certainly pay $25 to see them live if they toured.
Interestingly, Tommy Aldridge lived right down the street from here. Which early 80's Ozzy bandmember were you neighbors with, Tim? :lol
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I'm sorry, which Ozzy song was named after you? :lol
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Touche.
Here's the Daisly interview. The man's had a helluva career. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pIhAiHeh9j4
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About Velvet Revolver, wikipedia still lists them as Active, says slash is still a member. Whatever....
I love everything about 13. I love how it sounds just like classic Sabbath. Yet it does sound new. And i love the fact that it hit number 1 and so many people bought it and love it. They're considered by many to be the first Heavy Metal band. To see them come back all these years later, after so many music trends, and in the middle of so many music trends, and be such a succeess- man, is that great to see.
What other Sabbath records would you compare 13 to. Their first one?
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I like the Crowley cover a lot. The original song isn't really my thing, but still very well done (hard not to be given the talent). I'd certainly pay $25 to see them live if they toured.
Unfortunately, they only did one album and they never really took off. I think conflicting schedules didn't help. Check the whole album, all the Ozzy covers are a bit different like that, really enjoyable.
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During the Ozzy era, 99% of the lyrics are written by Geezer.
During the Dio era, I think all lyrics were from Dio, H&H and MR definitely, not sure about Dehumanizer but I think they are Dio too.
I'm not sure about Born Again but I think perhaps lyrics are by Gillan.
On Seventh Star, I think it was both Tony and Glenn that penned the lyrics.
Tony Martin wasn't part of the writing for Eternal Idol, so I'm not sure, I think just Tony, maybe Nichols wrote too.
I think the rest of the Tony Martin album the lyrics are from Martin.
On Seventh Star, the lyrics were written by Geoff Nichols and Glenn Hughes. Tony Iommi has never written any lyrics. I believe After Forever is credited only to Iommi but that was a mistake in the liner notes. Funny note about Seventh Star, In Memory was originally written about Geoff Nichols dog that died. Glenn pitched a fit and insisted on using his own lyrics which were about his grandfather that recently died. It has been years since I read that account but I'm 90% sure thats the story.
On Dehumanizer, Dio wrote all the lyrics except Master of Insanity. Strangely enough, Geezer had written a song in the 80s called Computer God that has nothing to do with the Sabbath song except the title. My understanding is Dio took the idea and wrote new lyrics.
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So i don't know too much about Black Sabbath other then the Ozzy and Dio albums. I'v listened to a lot of the Ozzy stuff cuz i'v always liked the vibe more, but want to get into the dio stuff. I know H&H is a favorite and classic, but are the other i believe 2 Dio Sabbath albums any good?
Other then Dio and Ozzy, is the Deep Purple guy to only other vocalist who was on a Sabbath album? And how is the other non-Dio/Ozzy stuff? How does it compare in style and sound etc?
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During the Ozzy era, 99% of the lyrics are written by Geezer.
During the Dio era, I think all lyrics were from Dio, H&H and MR definitely, not sure about Dehumanizer but I think they are Dio too.
I'm not sure about Born Again but I think perhaps lyrics are by Gillan.
On Seventh Star, I think it was both Tony and Glenn that penned the lyrics.
Tony Martin wasn't part of the writing for Eternal Idol, so I'm not sure, I think just Tony, maybe Nichols wrote too.
I think the rest of the Tony Martin album the lyrics are from Martin.
On Seventh Star, the lyrics were written by Geoff Nichols and Glenn Hughes. Tony Iommi has never written any lyrics. I believe After Forever is credited only to Iommi but that was a mistake in the liner notes. Funny note about Seventh Star, In Memory was originally written about Geoff Nichols dog that died. Glenn pitched a fit and insisted on using his own lyrics which were about his grandfather that recently died. It has been years since I read that account but I'm 90% sure thats the story.
On Dehumanizer, Dio wrote all the lyrics except Master of Insanity. Strangely enough, Geezer had written a song in the 80s called Computer God that has nothing to do with the Sabbath song except the title. My understanding is Dio took the idea and wrote new lyrics.
There is a demo of Geezers Computer Good, I have it somewhere.
Sounds totally different to the Sabbath version.
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So i don't know too much about Black Sabbath other then the Ozzy and Dio albums. I'v listened to a lot of the Ozzy stuff cuz i'v always liked the vibe more, but want to get into the dio stuff. I know H&H is a favorite and classic, but are the other i believe 2 Dio Sabbath albums any good?
Other then Dio and Ozzy, is the Deep Purple guy to only other vocalist who was on a Sabbath album? And how is the other non-Dio/Ozzy stuff? How does it compare in style and sound etc?
Of the Dio albums, I consider H&H the weakest of the three. Mob Rules is my favorite, and Dehumanizer is awesome.
There were two Deep Purple guys to sing for Sabbath; Ian Gillan and Glenn Hughes. Both good albums but certainly different than usual. Then there's Tony Martin who was on 5 albums, 4 of which were very good, but again fairly different. In fact, each singer had their own very distinct influence on Sabbath's sound and style. One thing I will say is that if you like Ozzy's vibe more, then the other guys (except for possibly Gillan) won't be as much your thing. Martin was more of a Dio clone, and Hughes was unique.
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Earlier i was listening to some of the more 'obscure' Sabbath albums on Youtube. I was impressed by what i heard of the stuff with Tony Martin, particularily Tyr which had a darkness i really liked. The albums with Martin sound quite good actually. The problem was Iommi kept putting the Sabbath name out there for far too long. But some of them, like Tyr, definately give me the impression that they could stand with the classics, tall and proud.
I heard something about Gillian and sabbath once, was suprised he actually recorded albums with them. Not only that tho, but 2 Deep purple guys were part of sabbath. I would love to get all BS albums and listen to them straight thru. I bet a lot of these lesser know ones would end up being favorites of mine. But some of them, from what Wikipedia says, have a very un-BS vibe, that disappoints me. Hearing that something like Tyr is very dark just makes sense. was surprised Iommi didn't like what Martin did with the lyrics.
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Tyr is a favorite of mine, and judging from the current survivor plenty of others here. Good album, and unlike some of the others from that era, quite consistent. Add to that, Cozy Powell and Niel Murray were great together. As much as I love Dehumanizer, it's a shame that it shut down that great lineup.
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As Bart & Wolf will vouch, I'm a big fan of the Martin era Sabbath. For the most part its fallen off the face of the earth. Its a shame, because its some top quality material.
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Back in the day, there was a song that just happened to appear on my computer. I featured Ozzy, Lemmy, and Slash on guitar. What CD was this released on?
Motörhead - I ain't no nice guy
...is the song
March ör die - album
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I was listening to Tye earlier and I think it is a really strong album. It's a shame how underrated and unknown some of their albums are, especially Tyr. I'm talking about the stuff without Dio and Ozzy.
I think it's really cool how Sabbath survived losing Ozzy. People love the Dio stuff. Heaven&Hell is considered one of their best. I think Dio's success with BS has inspired Jorn Lande to find a successful band to join. Just thought i'd mention that cuz i just read it in an interview ;p
But yea. People know the Ozzy Sabbath. They know the Dio Sabbath. People accept both era's as being Black Sabbath. But the other stuff know one talks about. I'm sure there is stuff that is really different and hard for people to accept. But the Dio stuff and the Ozzy stuff is VERY different. But there is something Sabbath about each. Headless Cross, Tyr sound like Sabbath. Tyr is very dark, the lyrics are great. I think it's one of the best things in the Sabbath catalog. The Tony Martin albums are like secret bonus's for those willing to delve deep enough in the catalog. I havn't listened to much of the stuff with the Deep Purple guys. There were 2 DP vocalists in BS, right? I only know of Born Again. I don't like it though....
Sounds like it was a big mistake to kick Martin out for Dio's return, because it doesn't seem like many liked Dehumanizer. Based on Tyr alone, i would have loved if Iommi and Martin had just formed a band with a new name rather then used the sabbath name. They probably would have had more success, because it doesn't sound like they had much success beating the dead horse that was Black Sabbath at the time.
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Dehumanizer is one of my favourite Sabbath albums. :tup So I'm glad that lineup reformed, even if only shortly. I've listened to Tyr and Headless Cross, and they didn't really interest me when I listened to them.
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Dehumanizer is one of my favourite Sabbath albums. :tup So I'm glad that lineup reformed, even if only shortly. I've listened to Tyr and Headless Cross, and they didn't really interest me when I listened to them.
Dehumanizer was actually the very first Sabbath album I ever purchased, aside from previously picking up a Dio-era Greatest Hits CD. It's constantly battling it out with Mob Rules as my favorite Sabbath album. I loved hearing Dio's voice sing over the heavier, doomier side of the band.
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I have just finished reading Mick Wall's book on Sabbath, called 'Symptom Of The Universe', which was a really good read.
It had a lot of the usual stories, but did contain of LOT of stuff that I never knew about the band.
This has let me to be actually interested in the Ozzy era, something that I had previously no interest in.
So I know there are a few different versions of the first 6 albums, different remasters.
Can anyone recommend which ones to get, which have the best sound?
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So I know there are a few different versions of the first 6 albums, different remasters.
Can anyone recommend which ones to get, which have the best sound?
I have the 1997 remasters. They sound fine, but I'm not sure how they compare to other versions. There is deluxe 2CD versions of the first few albums, but they are pretty pricey and again I'm not sure how they compare.
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Also a huge Dehumanizer fan. The downside is that while Martin returned, they lost Powell and Murray. Part of the reason that Tyr was such a strong album was because it was just a damn fine line up.
Was checking out some Cross Purposes videos last night, and I'm still amazed by how weak Martin is live. He always sounds out of breath. It was cracking me up how he'd be up front singing weakly and then Geoff Nichols would belt out backing vocals that blew him away. It seems that with TM's solo stuff, Nichols was pretty much carrying him the whole show. Great studio singer; terrible live.
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So I know there are a few different versions of the first 6 albums, different remasters.
Can anyone recommend which ones to get, which have the best sound?
there is a huge thread (or two) about this over at the Steve Hoffman forums.
Here is part one: https://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/rolands-favorite-cd-versions-of-black-sabbath-albums.116489/
I saw part two the other day, but for some reason I can't find it at the moment
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Also a huge Dehumanizer fan. The downside is that while Martin returned, they lost Powell and Murray. Part of the reason that Tyr was such a strong album was because it was just a damn fine line up.
Was checking out some Cross Purposes videos last night, and I'm still amazed by how weak Martin is live. He always sounds out of breath. It was cracking me up how he'd be up front singing weakly and then Geoff Nichols would belt out backing vocals that blew him away. It seems that with TM's solo stuff, Nichols was pretty much carrying him the whole show. Great studio singer; terrible live.
I wouldn't pass judgement on TM by this obviously poor performance.
I have heard other shows, I have the Los Angeles 1994 boot on silver CD and Martin sounds great, despite being only an average audience recording.
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I so regret blowing off the Martin era as it was happening. They came to town so many times, and I just scoffed at it.
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I so regret blowing off the Martin era as it was happening. They came to town so many times, and I just scoffed at it.
What types of venues were they playing at that point?
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They were hitting The Orpheum in Boston. It's the same place DT has been playing on their winter legs since 2002.
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Was checking out some Cross Purposes videos last night, and I'm still amazed by how weak Martin is live. He always sounds out of breath. It was cracking me up how he'd be up front singing weakly and then Geoff Nichols would belt out backing vocals that blew him away. It seems that with TM's solo stuff, Nichols was pretty much carrying him the whole show. Great studio singer; terrible live.
Martin did never live up to his studio performances but he was pretty ill during that show. The Headless Cross bootleg DVD Live in Moscow is a decent performance from Martin.
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Skimmed through the Moscow Boot and he sounds much better. Still, he doesn't come close to the studio version, nor does he try.
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What I find kinda funny and also kinda sad about the recent Sabbath reunion with Ozzy and the new album is how it's been put out there like the return of Sabbath after a long silence, where Sabbath hasn't been gone for THAT long; people have just forgotten or in some cases don't even know about the later Sabbath ventures.
I think the H&H reunion tour and album were great. It's great to see a band like this survive a vocalist change with so much success, so much that there was enough reason to reunite with Dio. But it sucks how no one even mention's the stuff after Dio. The Tony Martin albums were amazing IMHO, but i guess after Dio left fans gave up. Some saw the later singers as Dio wannabe's, but i don't think that at all. The original material they came up with with some of them was some of BS's best IMO.
But seeing Sabbath finish off with an album like 13 is sooooo satisfying to see. The album was huge. People didn't care this much about Duran Duran's reunion ;3
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I think Sabbath had a massive identity problem after Ozzy and Dio.
With the revolving door of singers and band members, the reunion with Dio, the on-off again Ozzy saga and everything else.
I guess a lot of fans had enough and lost interest. Also the Tony Martin era albums were in the IRS Metal label, which
from what I have read didn't do a lot of promotion for the band, specially in the USA.
I also think that Martin as good as he was in the studio, wasn't quite up to it live.
The footage I have seen of him, he looks uncomfortable, awkward, and nervous. Maybe the burden of singing for Sabbath was too much for him?
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I think Sabbath had a massive identity problem after Ozzy and Dio.
With the revolving door of singers and band members, the reunion with Dio, the on-off again Ozzy saga and everything else.
I guess a lot of fans had enough and lost interest. Also the Tony Martin era albums were in the IRS Metal label, which
from what I have read didn't do a lot of promotion for the band, specially in the USA.
I also think that Martin as good as he was in the studio, wasn't quite up to it live.
The footage I have seen of him, he looks uncomfortable, awkward, and nervous. Maybe the burden of singing for Sabbath was too much for him?
Certainly, and the fact that the two intermediary singers between Dio and Martin weren't particularly successful didn't help matters. I dig Born Again, but it was by any reasonable standards a flop. Seventh Star wasn't really even a legitimate Sabbath album. By the time they got to Eternal Idol they were pretty much off anybody's radar. Dehumanizer and Dio's return got them back out there (and Wayne's World certainly helped), but even that was short lived and when Dio booked again they went back to being Iommi plus random guys.
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So I know there are a few different versions of the first 6 albums, different remasters.
Can anyone recommend which ones to get, which have the best sound?
The 2009 remasters are very good. If you want to keep it simple, just get the 2009 version of an album you're interested in.
For more details, follow the link to the steve hoffman forum posted above. Just make sure to disregard any posts before 2010.
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I'v never really listened to Deep Purple, at all. Other then Smoke on The Water... I should give them a listen, considering the ties to Sabbath. Were Deep Purple a metal band? I havn't listened to them, but I'v always had the impression they were more of psychadelic Rock type band. Whereas Sabbath is metal.
I do think Tony Martin had a similar style to Dio. But I much prefer the music on Headless Cross and Tyr then anything on the Dio albums. One thing that Sabbath didn't really lose in all that time around was the dark persona. Which in my eyes is a good thing. Black Sabbath should be dark and heavy, that's what attracts me so much to their music. And the Martin albums fit right in with the rest of them. Too bad they ditched him for Dio, cuz they knew it would up their popularity. I'm listening to the Headless Cross CD right now, and man are the lyrids dark! I love it! Sabbath has had some great lyricists. Funny how the masses seem to like them best with an untalented vocalist and the guitarist writing the lyrics, whereas he only did that for Ozzy. Every other BS singer wrote their own lyrics.
Did Dio ever sing anything from Tyr? I listen to some of the Dio albums, then I listen to the Martin stuff, and i simply think the Martin ones are much better. It must have had to do with promotion. And as you said, they must have had an identity problem. If people don't see Ozzy, and to a lesser extent Dio, they think Sabbath is dead, and dry, and sucks.
Are any of the Gillian or Hughes albums any good? I believe they only sang 1 album each, right? I'v heard bad things about Born Again, although the tour sounds like it was successful.
But yea El Barto, i agree, the 2 albums with the Deep Purple singers didn't help. But it does seem like they were still doing well when Born Again came out, like i said it sounds like the tour was successful. I just think that if they had gone straight from Dio to Tony Martin and his albums, they may have fared better with people.
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You should check out Dehumanizer then. It's possibly the heaviest and one of the darkest Sabbath albums ever. Dio briefly changed his approach to lyrics during the 90's, starting with this album and continued with it for the following solo album or two after that.
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So I know there are a few different versions of the first 6 albums, different remasters.
Can anyone recommend which ones to get, which have the best sound?
The 2009 remasters are very good. If you want to keep it simple, just get the 2009 version of an album you're interested in.
For more details, follow the link to the steve hoffman forum posted above. Just make sure to disregard any posts before 2010.
Yeah thanks mate, I'm looking at the 2009 remasters via the Japanese SHM-CD released in 2011. They are a decent price so I might go with them.
Plus the Hoffman forum and posts their are way too confusing and I have no idea about the abbreviation's they mention all the time :xbones
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I'v never really listened to Deep Purple, at all. Other then Smoke on The Water... I should give them a listen, considering the ties to Sabbath. Were Deep Purple a metal band? I havn't listened to them, but I'v always had the impression they were more of psychadelic Rock type band. Whereas Sabbath is metal.
They're simply Hard Rock with some elements of Progressive, most apparent in their early albums (before Deep Purple In Rock).
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I'v never really listened to Deep Purple, at all. Other then Smoke on The Water... I should give them a listen, considering the ties to Sabbath. Were Deep Purple a metal band? I havn't listened to them, but I'v always had the impression they were more of psychadelic Rock type band. Whereas Sabbath is metal.
I do think Tony Martin had a similar style to Dio. But I much prefer the music on Headless Cross and Tyr then anything on the Dio albums. One thing that Sabbath didn't really lose in all that time around was the dark persona. Which in my eyes is a good thing. Black Sabbath should be dark and heavy, that's what attracts me so much to their music. And the Martin albums fit right in with the rest of them. Too bad they ditched him for Dio, cuz they knew it would up their popularity. I'm listening to the Headless Cross CD right now, and man are the lyrids dark! I love it! Sabbath has had some great lyricists. Funny how the masses seem to like them best with an untalented vocalist and the guitarist writing the lyrics, whereas he only did that for Ozzy. Every other BS singer wrote their own lyrics.
Did Dio ever sing anything from Tyr? I listen to some of the Dio albums, then I listen to the Martin stuff, and i simply think the Martin ones are much better. It must have had to do with promotion. And as you said, they must have had an identity problem. If people don't see Ozzy, and to a lesser extent Dio, they think Sabbath is dead, and dry, and sucks.
Are any of the Gillian or Hughes albums any good? I believe they only sang 1 album each, right? I'v heard bad things about Born Again, although the tour sounds like it was successful.
But yea El Barto, i agree, the 2 albums with the Deep Purple singers didn't help. But it does seem like they were still doing well when Born Again came out, like i said it sounds like the tour was successful. I just think that if they had gone straight from Dio to Tony Martin and his albums, they may have fared better with people.
Dio has never sung anything besides his own Sabbath era songs and a few Ozzy era songs.
Ozzy will only ever sing his songs (thank goodness), can you imagine him even attempting a Dio/Martin song?
Yes the Hughes sung Seventh Star is a great album, forget that it a so called Sabbath album.
Iommi had intended it to be his first solo album, and if it's treated as such, you'll hopefully find it well worth a listen.
It's actually the first of 3 albums that Iommi has collaborated with Hughes on.
All are very good, with the last one from 2005 'Fused' being the best and containing some classic Iommi riffs.
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If people don't see Ozzy, and to a lesser extent Dio, they think Sabbath is dead, and dry, and sucks.
This i don't agree.
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I'v never really listened to Deep Purple, at all. Other then Smoke on The Water... I should give them a listen, considering the ties to Sabbath. Were Deep Purple a metal band? I havn't listened to them, but I'v always had the impression they were more of psychadelic Rock type band. Whereas Sabbath is metal.
They're simply Hard Rock with some elements of Progressive, most apparent in their early albums (before Deep Purple In Rock).
Yes this, add some classical music influences and live they jammed a lot, adding lots of different and improvised bits.
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I'm a big Dehumanizer fan too. :tup
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I'm a big Dehumanizer fan too. :tup
I'm in the middle of relistening to that album for the umpteenth time right now. It's such a phenomenal album! :metal: Criminally underrated work by the band.
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I'v never really listened to Deep Purple, at all. Other then Smoke on The Water... I should give them a listen, considering the ties to Sabbath. Were Deep Purple a metal band?
The qualifier would be "for its time"....and the answer would be an emphatic "yes"...
It's not really metal by today's standards, but when it was new, it was some of the heaviest music being produced. Songs like "Speed King" were darn near thrash for its time.
Deep Purple In Rock and Machine Head are both really fantastic albums from start to finish. Heck...check out DT's cover of the entire Made In Japan live album!!
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I'v never really listened to Deep Purple, at all. Other then Smoke on The Water... I should give them a listen, considering the ties to Sabbath. Were Deep Purple a metal band?
The qualifier would be "for its time"....and the answer would be an emphatic "yes"...
It's not really metal by today's standards, but when it was new, it was some of the heaviest music being produced. Songs like "Speed King" were darn near thrash for its time.
Deep Purple In Rock and Machine Head are both really fantastic albums from start to finish. Heck...check out DT's cover of the entire Made In Japan live album!!
Hell, Highway Star is metal by today's standards, and retrospect it was essentially prototypical speed metal. Fireball was as heavy as what Sabbath was doing that year (71). I certainly wouldn't call DP a metal band, but some of what they were doing back then is metal doesn't really need to be qualified.
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When people say Black Sabbath was the first real metal band, the most common opponent for the title that people say is Deep Purple. I think it was Sabbath. And of course there are always the weirdos who say Zeppelin was the first metal band.....Sabbath does have a few rare LZ moments, but they are usually the least metal parts of their music!
I was reading about Zakk Wyldes comments about BS and how Dio-sabbath wasn't really Sabbath. He was saying things like, can you imagine Ozzy singing the Dio songs? And it's a good argument. So i was listening to Sabotage the album earlier, and I was thinking can you imagine Dio singing this? And, yea, there were a few songs I could imagine Dio singing. Back then, and maybe still today, Ozzy did sing notes and tunes that are like what Dio does with his vocals. Just sayin...
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Well we will never know that Ozzy cannot sing the Dio era songs, but I honestly wouldn't want him to.
But we've all heard Dio do the Ozzy era songs on the Live Evil album, and he doesn't do a bad job at all on most songs.
Zakk can say whatever he wants, but Dio was a success with Sabbath and the fans warmed to him.
Back in High School in 1983, Live Evil was the first ever Sabbath album I heard, so for me I will always associate Sabbath with Dio more than Ozzy.
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Speaking of Ozzy, his last 2 albums were terrible.....IMO....
I liked Down To Earth a lot. But Black Rain didn't work for me. And it's true, it often sounded like BLS. But did they have to fire Zakk? just tell him to change direction. He's in the past written classic ozzy songs. And Scream i just can't get into at all.
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Speaking of Ozzy, his last 2 albums were terrible.....IMO....
I liked Down To Earth a lot. But Black Rain didn't work for me. And it's true, it often sounded like BLS. But did they have to fire Zakk? just tell him to change direction. He's in the past written classic ozzy songs. And Scream i just can't get into at all.
Black Rain does have a couple of redeeming tracks (I especially love the opening track), but overall I agree, so I was hoping 13 was going to be a much stronger album. I do find it much more listenable than Scream, but it's still not as good as I usually expect from Iommi.
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Scream has one good track that I like (Life Won't Wait) but other than that, it's pretty forgettable.
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I agree about the Ozzy albums - the last one I listen to much is Ozzmosis and the last one I rate really high is No More Tears.
I think sometimes almost subconsciously we gravitate toward the music we grew up with during out peak influence years - for me that was 12-20yo. During that time I was exposed to many bands , including Black Sabbath and Pink Floyd as examples, when they'd lost key members and I was often told - "don't listen to that , that's not a real Sabbath/Floyd album" etc....... as if I gave a fuck?
I was an Ozzy fan from a young age but never really worked my way back to his Sabbath stuff until much, much later. So the first Sabbath album I bought/heard was Tyr and I really like that (esp the second half) - I rate it higher than the more fancied albums like Headless Cross, Eternal Idol and even a lot of the Dio material.
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The last 3 Ozzy albums have been rubbish.
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Well we will never know that Ozzy cannot sing the Dio era songs, but I honestly wouldn't want him to.
But we've all heard Dio do the Ozzy era songs on the Live Evil album, and he doesn't do a bad job at all on most songs.
Indeed. Dio did a very good job with the Ozzy era songs that he sang, and gave out superior performances on some of them than Ozzy originally did (i.e. "Black Sabbath"). But Ozzy would never be able to really do any justice to the songs from Dio's run with the band.
Zakk can say whatever he wants, but Dio was a success with Sabbath and the fans warmed to him.
Back in High School in 1983, Live Evil was the first ever Sabbath album I heard, so for me I will always associate Sabbath with Dio more than Ozzy.
Hell, I was introduced to the band (and the Heavy Metal genre in general) through the Dio lineup, so I totally understand. If I think of a "classic" Sabbath riff, my gut reaction will always be "Heaven and Hell."
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It's pretty easy to forget that at one point Ozzy was a very good singer. There are some live performances from back in the day where he was just awesome. That said, he wasn't even playing the same sport as Dio. I'm happy to engage in discussion about whether Sabbath was better with Ozzy or Dio; valid question. I'd probably vote Ozzy. Any discussion about whether or not one could sing the other's material is just plain silly.
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I grew up with original Black Sabbath, and I don't know if I ever considered Ozzy a very good singer. But that depends on what one's definition of "very good singer" is. Ozzy's voice was pretty limited in range of expression and wasn't exactly high quality, but in his own way, he could really wail, and it was perfect for what they were doing at the time. I used to really love Ozzy's unique voice, but I got really tired of it when he went solo and it seemed like all his stuff sounded the same. Fast, slow, in between, they all just sounded like Ozzy whining.
Dio brought a whole new dimension to Sabbath. His voice also is unique, and they almost sound like a different band just because of him. Heaven and Hell is still one of my favorite Black Sabbath albums.
Were they "better" with Ozzy or Dio? That comes down to personal preference. And I agree that whether one could sing the other's material is pretty pointless. They were very different singers.
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Just look at the reunions albums, H&H and 13.
13 sounds very much like the best Ozzy/Sabbath albums. The tone is just right, and just simply feels natural for them. It has the downbeat darkness they're known for, mostly for the Ozzy albums, especially the first 3 or 4.
The H&H album i havn't listened to as much as 13. But that also sounds right. It sounds like the Dio/Sabbath albums. It also has the darkness BS is known for, but it's more uptempo like the Dio albums. But it doesn't have as much variety as 13. I love the acoustic one on 13. Reminds me of Planet Caravan.
Iommi wrote quite differently with both singers. I think he would have rather had Dio as the frontman, but people wanted Ozzy so he took him when he could. Ozzy sells more. H&H's Devil You Know is also a Black Sabbath reunion album, and most people who care know this. But 13 had much better sales numbers.
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The H&H album i havn't listened to as much as 13. But that also sounds right. It sounds like the Dio/Sabbath albums. It also has the darkness BS is known for, but it's more uptempo like the Dio albums.
... Huh? If anything, TDYK and Dehumanizer (possibly MR too) are the darkest and most doom-y albums in Sabbath's discography. The only real 'light' album Dio ever did with Sabbath was H&H. MR continued the fantastical lyrics, but it's notably darker than its predecessor.
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I grew up with original Black Sabbath, and I don't know if I ever considered Ozzy a very good singer. But that depends on what one's definition of "very good singer" is. Ozzy's voice was pretty limited in range of expression and wasn't exactly high quality, but in his own way, he could really wail, and it was perfect for what they were doing at the time. I used to really love Ozzy's unique voice, but I got really tired of it when he went solo and it seemed like all his stuff sounded the same. Fast, slow, in between, they all just sounded like Ozzy whining.
Yeah, I certainly thought about qualifying my remark, but then I decided that nobody was going to think I was comparing him to 80's Tate. :lol Ozzy was what he was, but it's easy now to hear him struggling to even mumble, much less sing, and forget that he did just fine back in the day.
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Just look at the reunions albums, H&H and 13.
13 sounds very much like the best Ozzy/Sabbath albums. The tone is just right, and just simply feels natural for them. It has the downbeat darkness they're known for, mostly for the Ozzy albums, especially the first 3 or 4.
The H&H album i havn't listened to as much as 13. But that also sounds right. It sounds like the Dio/Sabbath albums. It also has the darkness BS is known for, but it's more uptempo like the Dio albums. But it doesn't have as much variety as 13. I love the acoustic one on 13. Reminds me of Planet Caravan.
Iommi wrote quite differently with both singers. I think he would have rather had Dio as the frontman, but people wanted Ozzy so he took him when he could. Ozzy sells more. H&H's Devil You Know is also a Black Sabbath reunion album, and most people who care know this. But 13 had much better sales numbers.
Some good points young man ;D
Ozzy with Sabbath is a brand name, bums on seats and album sales.
Sabbath with anyone besides Ozzy and Dio singing, nobody are really interested.
Ozzy's own career is probably on the downward spiral, so the reunion is good allround.
Yes I would say Iommi/Dio would write different together, after all Dio is a great songwriter himself, being able to offer a lot more than Ozzy's vocal melodies.
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I would much rather Ozzy not make any more solo records, or at least a lot less. I'd rather see him back in Sabbath. But that wont happen. And I don't ACTUALLY want Sabbath back full time, at least with Ozzy. The last record was a great way to end. I'd like Iommi and Geezer to make more music together, though. Like a record with Tony Martin ;)
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Yeah I have no interest in Ozzy outside of Sabbath, his best days are many years ago, but I'm sure the 13 album and tour are all good PR for a new Ozzy album :xbones
I don't know if there is any bad blood between TM and Iommi, after TM being totally dicked around over the years?
But yeah I can dream about an Iommi/Butler/Martin line up with Vinny Appice on drums and Geoff Nichols on keys!
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I watched that Ozzy documentary that was done recently. His son Jack had a part in making it. And I have to say, ever since The Osborne's TV show my view of Ozzy has been growing dimmer. With that show and other documentaries like the one i watched, Ozzy has revealed what a fragile old man he is. And it takes away from music he has been making recently. Before he became the TV personality he has become, around 2000 or so with the tv show, I used to view Ozzy as a hardcore rock god. I know he was all they say he was when he was younger, but nowadays his reputation has gone so far downhill from the awesome lord of darkness we used to see him as. I can't listen to his last few albums like i do his earlier stuff.
on a side not, i was listening the the mob rules album today. Goddamn that is an awesome record. Seems like most people view the H&H album as the only good Dio/sabbath record; mob rules and dehumanizer having nowhere near the reputation h&h does. That's just how it seems to me.
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on a side not, i was listening the the mob rules album today. Goddamn that is an awesome record. Seems like most people view the H&H album as the only good Dio/sabbath record; mob rules and dehumanizer having nowhere near the reputation h&h does. That's just how it seems to me.
I wouldn't say that most people see H&H as the only good Dio-era Sabbath record, but rather that they see it as the definitive Dio-era Sabbath album. I personally find it to be the weakest of the Dio albums as a whole, but H&H does have several incredible classic songs on it. There's a lot of 'star power' to that album, as it were; the title track, Children of the Sea, Die Young and Neon Knights are all considered to be some of the greatest heavy metal songs of all time.
In a way, H&H is to the Dio-era what Paranoid is to the Ozzy-era. It might not be the strongest album from that lineup overall, but it'll always be the best known by the majority for its several classics. Mob Rules is pretty popular too, I think, though I'd definitely say that Dehumanizer is one of the most underrated albums in the band's discography.
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Yea I would have to say i enjoy Mob Rules much more then H&H. I don't listen much to radio anymore. But I don't remember hearing much Dio sabbath being played, as much as Ozzy stuff. Or at all. I should also check out Dio's solo stuff. I'm pretty sure his only hit was Holy Diver, from what i can tell.
I'v always loved Sabbath Bloody Sabbath. That's a great album. Spiral Architect was always one of their best songs IMO. It's different. I always think of Sabbath, especially ozzy stuff, as being brooding, sludgy, but i forget there is some stuff other than that. There's stuff with synths and keyboards and stings etc.
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In a way, H&H is to the Dio-era what Paranoid is to the Ozzy-era. It might not be the strongest album from that lineup overall, but it'll always be the best known by the majority for its several classics.
Yeah, i would agree with that.
But to me, if i can take one Dio era album with me to a dessert isle, it would be H&H.
As far as Dehumanizer goes, i love the sound and feel of it, im just not nuts about the songs. Theres only one song that I really love, Buried Alive. Such an awesome chorus.
Spiral Architect was always one of their best songs IMO. It's different. I always think of Sabbath, especially ozzy stuff, as being brooding, sludgy, but i forget there is some stuff other than that. There's stuff with synths and keyboards and stings etc.
I love Spiral Architect too. One of my Ozzy era Top 5.
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I love Spiral Architect too. One of my Ozzy era Top 5.
It's my favourite Sabbath song ever.
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What? Black Sabbath with keyboards? Get the phuk out!
Just kidding. I love Sabbath Bloody Sabbath because it's so different, and because of Wakeman.
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I watched that Ozzy documentary that was done recently. His son Jack had a part in making it. And I have to say, ever since The Osborne's TV show my view of Ozzy has been growing dimmer. With that show and other documentaries like the one i watched, Ozzy has revealed what a fragile old man he is. And it takes away from music he has been making recently. Before he became the TV personality he has become, around 2000 or so with the tv show, I used to view Ozzy as a hardcore rock god. I know he was all they say he was when he was younger, but nowadays his reputation has gone so far downhill from the awesome lord of darkness we used to see him as. I can't listen to his last few albums like i do his earlier stuff.
on a side not, i was listening the the mob rules album today. Goddamn that is an awesome record. Seems like most people view the H&H album as the only good Dio/sabbath record; mob rules and dehumanizer having nowhere near the reputation h&h does. That's just how it seems to me.
Time is rolling on and Ozzy already had a lot of drug/alcohol abuse wearing on him. I actually haven't really enjoyed much of his music since Ozzmosis and I'm a major Ozz-head but I do like Scream, no matter how much everyone else bags on it (I can understand most peoples sentiment there). IF you listen to his last solo album the majority of the songs are about getting older and saying goodbye. I dunno if that will be his last solo album (who can tell with Sharon behind him) but the themes around it seem to make it out that way.
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I think I should give Scream another listen, and maybe even Black Rain. I'm curious as to who wrote the music and lyrics on Scream.
Was listening to the new H&H CD today and thought Dio was singing 'candy bowl' on one song.....
In the documentary i was talking about 'God Bless You Ozzy Osborne', there was a scene where it showed Ozzy warming up for a show. I can't help but feel that was a sad scene to watch. He's a senior fuckin citizen. I know there are a lot of older rockers out there, but Ozzy is just in bad shape man. I guess, he's always seemed like he was in bad shape, but now that age is really doing him in. Watching him stand there on stage like a scarecrow sucks, and when he hops in one spot....my god.
Hey so i was just on wikipedia, and I saw that Zakk Wylde wasn't credit on any song on Down To Earth. While Wylde was with Ozzy, I'm pretty sure he had a large part in the writing. Anyone know why he didn't write songs for Down To Earth?
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I think I should give Scream another listen, and maybe even Black Rain. I'm curious as to who wrote the music and lyrics on Scream.
Was listening to the new H&H CD today and thought Dio was singing 'candy bowl' on one song.....
In the documentary i was talking about 'God Bless You Ozzy Osborne', there was a scene where it showed Ozzy warming up for a show. I can't help but feel that was a sad scene to watch. He's a senior fuckin citizen. I know there are a lot of older rockers out there, but Ozzy is just in bad shape man. I guess, he's always seemed like he was in bad shape, but now that age is really doing him in. Watching him stand there on stage like a scarecrow sucks, and when he hops in one spot....my god.
Hey so i was just on wikipedia, and I saw that Zakk Wylde wasn't credit on any song on Down To Earth. While Wylde was with Ozzy, I'm pretty sure he had a large part in the writing. Anyone know why he didn't write songs for Down To Earth?
One guess...two syllables...a proper name beginning with the letter 'S'.
I honestly think Ozzy(tm) has been using ghost writers for 30 years. His way of writing a song is being surrounded by 'yes men' collaborators (and $haron) and stating, "I want to write a song about death!" Collaborators: "Ozzy(tm), you're a genius!" (picks up giant pile of songs submitted by thousands of hopefuls on the coffee table) "Which one would you like to put your name on?"
This is not an exaggeration of what I believe. This is honestly what I believe happens. Writing credit is only about collecting royalties, nothing more. If you have a name, you can pay someone a flat fee and take all the credit. It's been a common practice in pop forever, and as brain dead as Ozzy(tm) is, and as money hungry and controlling $haron is, my deep seated suspicion is that this is common practice in the Ozzy(tm) musical empire.
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Yep I'm with you, Ozzy's actual contribution for the most is humming a melody and 'singing'.
He dosen't write lyrics or music, so he relies on other for that.
His name is on the album, Ozzy is brand name that sells.
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Oh yea i really don't believe he does much more then hum a melody. I'm sure Zakk or whoever just came in with a collection of riffs to show ozzy, or more likely entire songs! I wonder what Wylde has said about songwriting for him.
Ozzy does not play guitar.
And Scream aint bad actually. Was listening to it today and have grown to really like it. I wonder how the writing went for that. he has a credit for all the songs.
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Classic Sabbath Albums re-enter Billboard Charts!
https://www.blabbermouth.net/news/classic-black-sabbath-albums-re-enter-billboard-chart/
Great news and I love this:
'mastered specifically for iTunes, ensuring the delivery of the music to listeners with increased audio fidelity, more closely replicating what the artists, recording engineers, and producers intended'
Oh I almost fell off my chair laughing at this....
Compressed audio files through those shitty iPod earphones, guaranteed to sound, 'amazing'.
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Well done to Black Sabbath for their Grammy win.
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Well done to Black Sabbath for their Grammy win.
I called it happening before they even released the single last April. But yeah, props to them.
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I'd like to see what'd happen if they had included something like Dehumanizer or a Martin album in that rerelease and promoted it just the same. I think it it would result in some surprising amazing album sales.
Man I have been listening to TDYK and 13 one after the other a lot the last 2 days. Both such strong albums. I find 13 to be a bit more "progressive" though; not like DT progressive, but like Maiden progressive. I hope that makes sense.
TDYK has tighter songs; nothing negative implied about either albums. I love that Dio-era and TDYK are so loved, with their 5 or so minute mid-tempo songs about the devil and religion. Seems like it wouldn't be fast enough or slow enough for the general public. Just a thought. I love Iommi on this record. Some of his best riffs of his career. I don't pay much attention to how many guitar tracks are there, but i'v been thinking about it a lot and talked about it in the Maiden thread. The sound here is so full, it must have been hard to replicate that live without a second guitarist. Unless I'm mistaking and it was only one guitar track that happened to just be so heavy and crunching it sounds like more.
But 13 i'd say is the more impressive album. Geezer and Iommi obviously know the different between a Dio-BS and Ozzy-BS record. I made a comparison between Sabbath and Tool somewhere, i don't think here. What I was mostly comparing were the Ozzy albums with Tool. I hear a lot of Adam Jones style riffs on 13. God Iommi is fuckin badass, i love his style. He just wants to sound fuckin heavy and crunching, and it seems on 13 he had more space to play in a more textured way, in a way I think is comparable to Jones.
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Iommi style is so unique, his playing sounds so damned heavy.
But Geezer also has a lot to do with that sound, he plays the same notes as Iommi.
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When I actually try to single out the bass while listening to Sabbath, I can hear it more then with some other bands. Some bands I really can't hear the bass at all. Listening to TDYK and 13 I can hear Geezer and he did an awesome job. I hate when bands have a bass player that is very seldom utilized in an interesting or audible way.
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Totally opposite to Geezers sound and style is Neil Murray.
He plays bass on the Tyr album that I was listening to today in my car.
It's sonically one of my favourite albums to digest and enjoy.
It sounds like Sabbath, but in many ways it also doesn't, mainly because of the bass.
The bass is pretty high in the mix, but also very subtle many in places.
Whether you think this is a 'true' Sabbath album or not, this album is one of my fave Iommi album.
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Yep, TYR is absolutely brilliant.
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Yeah, Murray with Powell was really something else. I think I said earlier that the worst thing about Dehumanizer is that it meant the end of the Tyr lineup.
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Yeah i should pay more attention to the bass when i next listen to Tyr.
Tyr, and i guess the other Martin albums, are most comparable to the Dio stuff, as opposed to the Dio stuff. Martin's lyrics about ancient god seem Dio-ish, even though Dio doesn't write about that himself. But Tyr is so much more cinematic then any other BS.
And was listening to Technical Ecstasy today (i'm on a huge Sabbath bender i guess). It was very...err, not very great. It has none of that ominous, darkness they usually have elements of. When I was talking about how i could see Dio singing some of the Ozzy stuff, what i had in mind was the Technical Ecstasy songs.
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Musically Tyr is nowhere near any of the Dio stuff, but maybe as you pointed out, lyrically could be a distant cousin of Dio.
I was listening to Cross Purposes today in the car and one song, Virtual Death, I could picture and hear Ozzy singing that.
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I rant through the Zmartin albums this week and I completely agree with you Gaz on Virtual Death.
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Yes i agree. Tyr is nowhere near the Dio stuff, or the Ozzy stuff. I love Tyr. It's got a style that is similar to what you might hear from newer power metal bands, with the keyboards and such. But of course not as fast, as Sabbath is not power metal. At the moment I can't think of any bands to compare Tyr to, but i know there's some out there.
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The best thing about is the actual sound, the mix is great, everything has room to breath.
Mastered at low volume, compared to today's standard, hard to believe that Tyr is 24 years old this year.
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I was listening to Masterplans new album, and I thought to myself they sound like a modern version of the band that recorded Tyr. Maybe it was just that I was listening to them back to back, but hey, something to think about..... (if you're a nerd like me who thinks about these things a lot ;)
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Cross Purposes 20 years old today, wow where did the time go...
https://www.black-sabbath.com/2014/01/happy-20th-cross-purposes/
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Cross Purposes is an awesome disc; hopefully one day it will be re-released, just like the rest of the TM albums.
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Cross Purposes I will definitely have to check out. Black Sabbath has had a long road. They've done a lot of different variations. I gotta say though, Sabotage I am not a huge fan of. It's good, but not the best Ozzy for sure. I just started listening to Geezer and Ozzy on Howard Stern. Should be interesting...
And what I meant earlier was, well, what I said. The Dio stuff is more uptempo and faster, overall, then the Ozzy stuff. But yes it its very dark and doomy. TDYK is fuckin crushing. Atom and Evil is sooo good. Dark as shit. How does Iommi pull this stuff off live?
Technical Ecstasy is an odd one. I keep listening to it. They lost the heart of what Sabbath was about on that one. Luckily they found it with Dio and came back more doom filled then ever.
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Cross Purposes is an awesome disc
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Cross Purposes is an awesome disc; hopefully one day it will be re-released, just like the rest of the TM albums.
Yeah, I'd wish they would do a re-release package for Headless and TYR.
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Jerusalem is fuckin awesome. The style of Tyr is so different for a Sabbath album. There are so many people who, if they heard HC or Tyr, probably wouldn't believe they're Sabbath albums if they weren't already aware. Iommi needs more credit as a guitarist and songwriter. He should be up there with Jimmy Page and co. From what i can tell, he's not usually put in the same category as those guys.
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Notepad: after reading Mick Wall's recent Sabbath book 'Symptom of the Universe', your comments are not surprising.
Since day one Sabbath got no credit for anything from the critics, and have always been treated as 'second class' by the industry.
Iommi is an incredible guitarist, and those who know metal and know guitar, he is an icon, legend and unique.
He does things that most guitarist can only dream of, get sounds and has a heaviness that no one can match.
As you eluded to, during the Martin era was responsible for some incredible songwriting, bar one album with Geezer did it all on his own
with writing some of his best riffs and songs.
As for the 4 remaining Martin era albums that are long deleted, I'm sure it's in Iommi hands when these are released.
I know that Joe Seigler from black-sabbth.com is in Iommi's management ear about what should be on any re-issues.
I reckon they would be held back until the whole Sabbath 13 album, touring cycle, 13 album re-issue (with the 4 remaining 13 session unreleased tracks)
is done, as to avoid any confusion with the current line up.
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Now that I'v been digging really deep into Sabbath, I'm starting to see that the most impressive performer on any of their albums was Iommi. It's clear he's the heart and soul of the band. Ozzy is not the Prince of Darkness, Ton Iommi is.
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Dammit, show Iommi proper respect and call him the Creator of darkness! :metal
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So I've done a little listening to Martin era songs on youtube.
Fucking A... this is awesome
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Jerusalem is fuckin awesome. The style of Tyr is so different for a Sabbath album. There are so many people who, if they heard HC or Tyr, probably wouldn't believe they're Sabbath albums if they weren't already aware. Iommi needs more credit as a guitarist and songwriter. He should be up there with Jimmy Page and co. From what i can tell, he's not usually put in the same category as those guys.
Iommi blows Page out of the water.
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If the Zepheads see that there'll be trouble ;D
Re Martin era ......my first Sabbs album was actually Tyr and (aside from the first couple of songs) there's not anything in their catalogue that I like much better tbh. Very good album.
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If the Zepheads see that there'll be trouble ;D
I aint scared, it's true. :laugh:
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Iommi blows Page out of the water.
I love Led Zeppelin more than I will probably ever love Sabbath and I kinda agree. Page is awesome... but in the studio setting. Live he just sounds so sloppy IMO
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In his prime, Iommi couldn't touch Page for soloing. From 1969 to 1973 or so, Page played fantastic solos, especially live, then the heroin made his fingers sticky. If you heard Page in his later days, yeah, he's very sloppy and sticky fingered, but in the early days, he was awesome.
Page however couldn't touch Iommi for writing memorable riffs at any part of his career, though, and that's what Iommi is known for: he's a riff machine.
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Tony Iommi is the king of writing memorable riffs. For example, When he's with Dio and doing the Sabbath-dio/H&H thing, he makes it look so easy. I noticed while listening to TDYK that the songs are more of a tradional song structure then that on 13. It's seems so easy for Iommi to come up with these awesome riffs that sound so dark and compile them into songs. I could see it being very easy for him to do another H&H album, or something like it. With 13 the riffing is more spread out. But just as awesome.
Am i wrong if i say i hear some Zepplin influence in some of the early Sabbath stuff with Ozzy?
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Oooh-kay.. Jimmy Page vs. Tony Iommi
I'm a Zep-head for sure but I wouldn't be one to rage over those who favored Iommi. Both are visionary guitarists in their own right. I just think that Page embraced a wider scope of styles, which worked to bring Zep's music to a much broader audience. Iommi focused on developing that very specific sound that has come to be known as heavy metal. As someone already suggested, Iommi is the true Prince of Darkness when it comes to heavy music. Page, on the other hand, had his philosophy of injecting 'light and shade' in Zep's overall sound.
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Biggest difference for me is that Iommi is still writing killer riffs and playing live.
Page has really done nothing since LZ split.
Iommi is a living and practicing legend, while Page living off his past works.
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Oooh-kay.. Jimmy Page vs. Tony Iommi
I'm a Zep-head for sure but I wouldn't be one to rage over those who favored Iommi. Both are visionary guitarists in their own right. I just think that Page embraced a wider scope of styles, which worked to bring Zep's music to a much broader audience. Iommi focused on developing that very specific sound that has come to be known as heavy metal. As someone already suggested, Iommi is the true Prince of Darkness when it comes to heavy music. Page, on the other hand, had his philosophy of injecting 'light and shade' in Zep's overall sound.
I'm glad you found this conversation. I meant to bring it to your attention the other day.
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Oooh-kay.. Jimmy Page vs. Tony Iommi
I'm a Zep-head for sure but I wouldn't be one to rage over those who favored Iommi. Both are visionary guitarists in their own right. I just think that Page embraced a wider scope of styles, which worked to bring Zep's music to a much broader audience. Iommi focused on developing that very specific sound that has come to be known as heavy metal. As someone already suggested, Iommi is the true Prince of Darkness when it comes to heavy music. Page, on the other hand, had his philosophy of injecting 'light and shade' in Zep's overall sound.
Wow. Pretty much this.
And I've always seen it as:
Ozzy is Ozzy. Iommi is Black Sabbath.
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Also - Iommi pretty much spearheaded a new genre whilst Page arguably stole a load of blues songs and turned them up.
And I *like* Led Zep ! :lol
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new footage from 1970 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v6l0Co3EE6k (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v6l0Co3EE6k)
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I guess they were opening for the touring company of The Wiz. Good footage, though.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E6-Z0gKTpCM
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Just listened to Tyr and Cross Purposes for the first time, and Headless Cross for the first time in nearly 2 decades. Surprised to find I really enjoyed them. Tony Martin was awesome.
When do these albums get the Deluxe treatment? Will be a definite buy for me.
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Just listened to Tyr and Cross Purposes for the first time, and Headless Cross for the first time in nearly 2 decades. Surprised to find I really enjoyed them. Tony Martin was awesome.
When do these albums get the Deluxe treatment? Will be a definite buy for me.
Same here, i've always found that entire era to be severely underrated.
There is a deluxe edition of the eternal idol which comes with the alternate version with Ray Gillen on vocals.
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Yeah I've got that. Gillen was a great singer.
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Lots of good material in the Martin era. I cmpletely disregarded it as it was happening. Thought it was a joke that they were out as "Black Sabbath". Passed on seeing them with Martin a number of times. I remember reading a lot of positive reviews on the albums, but I just couldnt give it the time of day. I really wish I had.while I did see Cozy Powell live a couple of times, it wouldve been awesome to see him with Iommi.
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Cross Purposes doesn't do much for me but I'm a fan of Tyr , especially the last 2/3rds.......
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Martin era = Best Sabbath.
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Martin era = Best Sabbath.
A close second behind Dio for me!
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Nothing will ever beat the first four albums with Ozzy (with the possible exception of Heaven and Hell), but the Martin era is underrated for sure.
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Martin era = Best Sabbath.
A close second behind Dio for me!
Over the Ozzy era? Wow!
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Martin era = Best Sabbath.
A close second behind Dio for me!
Over the Ozzy era? Wow!
DIO for me, never a huge BS fan with Ozzy, though there best tracks are awesome there's lots of stuff I don't like.
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Martin era = Best Sabbath.
A close second behind Dio for me!
Over the Ozzy era? Wow!
+1 Dio era over Ozzy. Not to say I don't love early Sab, cause I do, but Dio's Sab is a whole different beast. As far as the Page remarks earlier.... Jay covered it well. In the studio Page is the master, and sloppy live a good percentage of the time. That being said, weighing everything out... Page is much better than Tony IMO.
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Easy to sum up for me, Iommi still creating new music.
Page, since the demise of Zep has done buggar all, a couple of albums with The Firm, Coverdale and little else.
Iommi = Innovator
Page = Imitator
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Iommi = Innovator
Page = Imitator
What?? One... everyone imitates to an extent. It's called influence yes? Page's innovations have influenced musicians overall more than Tony's. Bottom line, while I didn't know it was a question of longevity, Page's studio accolades simply are in a different league than Iommi's. If you go by longevity, then I guess Keith Richards is better than Tony yeah? :lol
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Tony Iommi shits all over Page.
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Iommi = Innovator
Page = Imitator
What?? One... everyone imitates to an extent. It's called influence yes? Page's innovations have influenced musicians overall more than Tony's. Bottom line, while I didn't know it was a question of longevity, Page's studio accolades simply are in a different league than Iommi's. If you go by longevity, then I guess Keith Richards is better than Tony yeah? :lol
Just how do you know for anything resembling an actual fact that Page is more of an influence than Iommi?
Fact is that Iommi invented the heavy metal riff and sound, which influence is genre defining and without, metal would/may not be the same as we know it today.
The blues that Page plays, was around long before him and long after his creative output dried up.
What has Page done, of any great note since LZ split, besides rehashing the Zep back catalogue numerous times?
While Iommi is still cranking out those unique sounding riffs and playing live.
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Tony Iommi shits all over Page.
No question.
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I think the Page vs Iommi debate is fascinating.
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Iommi = Innovator
Page = Imitator
What?? One... everyone imitates to an extent. It's called influence yes? Page's innovations have influenced musicians overall more than Tony's. Bottom line, while I didn't know it was a question of longevity, Page's studio accolades simply are in a different league than Iommi's. If you go by longevity, then I guess Keith Richards is better than Tony yeah? :lol
Just how do you know for anything resembling an actual fact that Page is more of an influence than Iommi?
Fact is that Iommi invented the heavy metal riff and sound, which influence is genre defining and without, metal would/may not be the same as we know it today.
The blues that Page plays, was around long before him and long after his creative output dried up.
What has Page done, of any great note since LZ split, besides rehashing the Zep back catalogue numerous times?
While Iommi is still cranking out those unique sounding riffs and playing live.
My quantifier is what I've heard bands say over the decades as to who influenced them. I've heard many more say Page than Iommi. Is that absolute? Of course not, just what I've heard. Back to the longevity thing. Doesn't matter a bit. Like I said, going by your logic, Richards is more creative and relevant than Iommi. Do you believe that? I sure don't. Also, I never said Page was the "Father of Metal" You're correct, he's more blues based. That doesn't mean he was not unique. As far as Tony being the father of the metal riff? Probably so ... but... there are others who played some pretty heavy riffs back in the 60's, and even earlier. I love Tony and Sabbath, just don't see the necessity of trashing Page, a legendary guitarist.
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I've heard many things over the years too, but it does not make them true.
I never insinuated that you stated anything about Page being the father of metal.
Page has never been anything related to metal, that is common knowledge.
No Iommi is widely regarded as the father of metal, and if there are 'others who played heavy riffs in the 1960's'', then please name them?
My intention was never to trash Page, but he has been accused many times of plagiarism, while Iommi never has (except maybe his own riffs).
Once again I'll state that Iommi has been prolific over the past 30 years, while Page has done next to nothing.
Why you are adding Keith Richards to the equation is baffling to say the least.
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I named 2, 60's guitarists who are considered by some to be fore fathers of Metal. Well...I guess we're just not listening to each other... :lol pointless to continue ...
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No Iommi is widely regarded as the father of metal, and if there are 'others who played heavy riffs in the 1960's'', then please name them?
Pete Townshend.
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No Iommi is widely regarded as the father of metal, and if there are 'others who played heavy riffs in the 1960's'', then please name them?
Pete Townshend.
Who?
;D
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I accidentally tripped into listening to Technical Ecstasy for the first time in 25 or more years. I've forgotten how much I enjoyed this album and still to this day can't figure out why it is so universally panned.
:metal
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I accidentally tripped into listening to Technical Ecstasy for the first time in 25 or more years. I've forgotten how much I enjoyed this album and still to this day can't figure out why it is so universally panned.
:metal
So you haven't listened to it in 25 years and even then it was by accident.
Hmm..
:lol
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Hey, he said he was tripping. You do all kinds of crazy stuff when you're tripping.
:hat
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Oh yeah, I like Technical Ecstasy, too. I remember when it came out, I thought the cover was so, so cool. Now... not so much, although I guess it's still kinda cool.
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TE is a good release. I would say "Dirty Women" is my favorite Ozzy era Sabbath song.
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Interesting how some of the music on Techical Ecstacy and Never Say Die foreshadows Ozzy's solo stuff. Some of those songs would fit right into Bark at the Moon or Ultimate Sin.
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Interesting how some of the music on Techical Ecstacy and Never Say Die foreshadows Ozzy's solo stuff. Some of those songs would fit right into Bark at the Moon or Ultimate Sin.
Maybe Ultimate Sin, but I don't hear anything on those albums that would fit on Bark At The moon. :)
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Interesting how some of the music on Techical Ecstacy and Never Say Die foreshadows Ozzy's solo stuff. Some of those songs would fit right into Bark at the Moon or Ultimate Sin.
Maybe Ultimate Sin, but I don't hear anything on those albums that would fit on Bark At The moon. :)
Okay I'll give you that Mr. Picayune :).
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Saturday was a gorgeous, sunny, Autumn day and while driving home from the locally brewery with a growler full of Pilsner for the football game, Fairies Wear Boots came on the shuffle.
Man, what a great intro to a song. It perfectly builds and still kicks my ass after all these years. :metal
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:metal
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Due to a conversation with Stadler in the "7 songs in 7 days" thread, I listened to Technical Ecstasy a couple of times today. It has been a while.
"She's Gone" blew me away. Damn... Ozzie's voice gives this song a twisted vibe that slays me.
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They'll be releasing an EP in two days, only to be sold at their final tour.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_End_(EP (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_End_(EP))
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I'll be seeing them live on the 27th.
Interested to see what the set list will be. The usual supects will be played, but it sounds like a few obscure tracks that havent been played since the 70's may make an appearance.
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Due to a conversation with Stadler in the "7 songs in 7 days" thread, I listened to Technical Ecstasy a couple of times today. It has been a while.
"She's Gone" blew me away. Damn... Ozzie's voice gives this song a twisted vibe that slays me.
I know it's a much maligned album, and I know the band doesn't think too highly of it (though having said that, they do play songs from it on occasion. usually Dirty Women) but I love that album. It's brighter than the sludge-fests that came later, and I absolutely consider Geezer to be one of my top three favorite lyricists. I think "Gypsy" is a top ten Sabbath song.
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Due to a conversation with Stadler in the "7 songs in 7 days" thread, I listened to Technical Ecstasy a couple of times today. It has been a while.
"She's Gone" blew me away. Damn... Ozzie's voice gives this song a twisted vibe that slays me.
Yeah I just gave it a spin as well. I cannot even remember the last time I played it. In fact, I've never bothered to even get it on CD. But I will now.
I really enjoyed my listen, except for It's Alright.
I think "Gypsy" is a top ten Sabbath song.
Damn, it really is pretty awesome. What a hidden jewel. Like I said, maybe 25 years since I listened.
Gypsy musically reminds me a lot of the original Alice Cooper band, a band that was really ahead of its time and severely underrated.
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Iommi : " it'll be great to finish with all the same guys we started with..."
Umm....... :|
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Iommi : " it'll be great to finish with all the same guys we started with..."
Umm....... :|
yeah seems to be missing an important part lol
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I honestly prefer Never Say Die to TE, mostly on the basis of Junior's Eye's, and to a lesser extent the title track and Johnny Blade. Aside from Dirty Women there's nothing on TE that really grabs me, and that's mostly limited to seeing Iommi play it live.
Pretty sure I have a ticket to see the final tour somewhere, but since they went on sail a year before the show I've forgotten about it. I probably wouldn't have bothered, honestly, as I have a real beef with Sharon Osbourne's entire existence (God damned shame her father's dogs didn't get her, but at least he tried) and I'm pretty annoyed about the Bill Ward thing. But, tickets were reasonable and it's important to see Geezer and Iommi again before they croak. My preference would have been to buy scalper tickets so as not to support that filthy whore, but I wasn't in charge of the ticket procurement.
edit: It's brighter than the sludge-fests that came later, and I absolutely consider Geezer to be one of my top three favorite lyricists.
Not sure what constitutes the sludgefest, although Born Again is certainly pretty dark. Personally, I consider the first few Tony Martin albums, TYR in particular, to be among the best they've done. Not on a par with SBS and Sabotage, but as good as or better than everything else.
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I honestly prefer Never Say Die to TE, mostly on the basis of Junior's Eye's, and to a lesser extent the title track and Johnny Blade. Aside from Dirty Women there's nothing on TE that really grabs me, and that's mostly limited to seeing Iommi play it live.
Pretty sure I have a ticket to see the final tour somewhere, but since they went on sail a year before the show I've forgotten about it. I probably wouldn't have bothered, honestly, as I have a real beef with Sharon Osbourne's entire existence (God damned shame her father's dogs didn't get her, but at least he tried) and I'm pretty annoyed about the Bill Ward thing. But, tickets were reasonable and it's important to see Geezer and Iommi again before they croak. My preference would have been to buy scalper tickets so as not to support that filthy whore, but I wasn't in charge of the ticket procurement.
"Dirty Women" is not only the standout for me from TE, but one of, if not my favorite, song from the Ozzy era.
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Never Say Die is such an underrated Sabbath album, lots of great tracks there.
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edit: It's brighter than the sludge-fests that came later, and I absolutely consider Geezer to be one of my top three favorite lyricists.
Not sure what constitutes the sludgefest, although Born Again is certainly pretty dark. Personally, I consider the first few Tony Martin albums, TYR in particular, to be among the best they've done. Not on a par with SBS and Sabotage, but as good as or better than everything else.
I love the martin era as well; I was referring to much of Dehumanizer and the Heaven And Hell record. It seemed like when they reunited with Dio it just became "how heavy can it be?". Sabbath is not known for it's subtlety, but it is the subtle moments I like best. The intro to Spiral Architect. Over To You. Gypsy. Tomorrow's Dream.
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Dehumanizer is one of my very favorites, but you're right that it's not subtle. There seems to be some genuine anger going on there. Still, I remains one of the standouts from Dio's entire catalog, IMO. The only problem I have with Dehumanizer is that it prevented a followup to TYR with Cozy/Niel Murray. Those two were awesome together, but five years later they cranked out some real crap with Forbidden.
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"I" is completely awesome. Good call there, El Barto.
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My favorite tune from Dehumanizer is Buried Alive.
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"I" is a major standout for me. Love the version from H&H Neon Knights live album!
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"I" is a major standout for me. Love the version from H&H Neon Knights live album!
That album is a tour de force for both Dio and Iommi.
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Dehumanizer is one of my very favorites, but you're right that it's not subtle. There seems to be some genuine anger going on there. Still, I remains one of the standouts from Dio's entire catalog, IMO. The only problem I have with Dehumanizer is that it prevented a followup to TYR with Cozy/Niel Murray. Those two were awesome together, but five years later they cranked out some real crap with Forbidden.
You know it's funny you mentioned the lack of subtlety and presence of anger. I've often thought that Dio's next album, Strange Highways was less subtle and a lot angrier than what he had done before, and I've often thought that it was a reflection of the Black Sabbath thing not working out at that time.
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Dehumanizer is one of my very favorites, but you're right that it's not subtle. There seems to be some genuine anger going on there. Still, I remains one of the standouts from Dio's entire catalog, IMO. The only problem I have with Dehumanizer is that it prevented a followup to TYR with Cozy/Niel Murray. Those two were awesome together, but five years later they cranked out some real crap with Forbidden.
You know it's funny you mentioned the lack of subtlety and presence of anger. I've often thought that Dio's next album, Strange Highways was less subtle and a lot angrier than what he had done before, and I've often thought that it was a reflection of the Black Sabbath thing not working out at that time.
Well they have a similar vibe.
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Dehumanizer is one of my very favorites, but you're right that it's not subtle. There seems to be some genuine anger going on there. Still, I remains one of the standouts from Dio's entire catalog, IMO. The only problem I have with Dehumanizer is that it prevented a followup to TYR with Cozy/Niel Murray. Those two were awesome together, but five years later they cranked out some real crap with Forbidden.
You know it's funny you mentioned the lack of subtlety and presence of anger. I've often thought that Dio's next album, Strange Highways was less subtle and a lot angrier than what he had done before, and I've often thought that it was a reflection of the Black Sabbath thing not working out at that time.
Yeah, SH was definitely a lot angrier. To be honest I never considered that shift in tone there in relation to the same shift with Sabbath (Dehumanizer was a completely different sound than TYR). Unfortunately Strange Highways, as well as Angry Machines, were also both shit so I never put much thought into analysis. I always just assumed "well, must be Tracy G" and moved onto the next ones. Since Magica was seriously kick ass I had little reason to think about those two albums ever again.
edit: and now that I think about it, Lock Up the Wolves (a much, much better album than the Tracy G ones) wasn't angry at all. It's like as soon as Dio and Iommi (and at that point Geezer) got into the same room they all switched from writing good interesting music to writing musical hostility. :lol Fortunately, as in the case of Dehumanizer that occasionally works very well.
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Lock Up The Wolves is AWESOME!!!!!
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Dehumanizer is one of my very favorites, but you're right that it's not subtle. There seems to be some genuine anger going on there. Still, I remains one of the standouts from Dio's entire catalog, IMO. The only problem I have with Dehumanizer is that it prevented a followup to TYR with Cozy/Niel Murray. Those two were awesome together, but five years later they cranked out some real crap with Forbidden.
You know it's funny you mentioned the lack of subtlety and presence of anger. I've often thought that Dio's next album, Strange Highways was less subtle and a lot angrier than what he had done before, and I've often thought that it was a reflection of the Black Sabbath thing not working out at that time.
Yeah, SH was definitely a lot angrier. To be honest I never considered that shift in tone there in relation to the same shift with Sabbath (Dehumanizer was a completely different sound than TYR). Unfortunately Strange Highways, as well as Angry Machines, were also both shit so I never put much thought into analysis. I always just assumed "well, must be Tracy G" and moved onto the next ones. Since Magica was seriously kick ass I had little reason to think about those two albums ever again.
edit: and now that I think about it, Lock Up the Wolves (a much, much better album than the Tracy G ones) wasn't angry at all. It's like as soon as Dio and Iommi (and at that point Geezer) got into the same room they all switched from writing good interesting music to writing musical hostility. :lol Fortunately, as in the case of Dehumanizer that occasionally works very well.
We've got a lot of commonality here. Love Dio solo, but really, for me, it goes "Dream Evil", "Magica", "Killing The Dragon" and "Master of the Moon". I really like Craig Goldie, but there is little in those other records (that I didn't name) that I like much.
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You have those albums listed in the right order.
But to me, Goldie has no personality. Traci G had personality. I didn't care for it, but his albums had an undeniable feel. Goldie? What's his mark on an album. Hell Rowan Robertson owned LUTW as Vivian did on the first few albums. What exactly does Goldie add?
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I don't mean to take it too far off-topic, but the only thing I agree with is that Angry Machines was Dio's worst album. Other than Big Sister, Double Monday, and especially Hunter of the Heart, I won't even LISTEN to the rest of that album.
However, I DO like Tracy G's guitar playing, and Strange Highways actually has about the same number of songs that I like on it as Dehumanizer does.
Also Master of the Moon and The devil You Know only had four songs each that I liked.
For some reason the quality just wasn't there for me like it was on Heaven & Hell, Mob Rules, and those first few Dio albums.
But it did get better on Magica and Killing the Dragon, so it's possible that the Magica sequel(s) he was planning at the time of his passing would have been better, as well...
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For some reason the quality just wasn't there for me like it was on Heaven & Hell, Mob Rules, and those first few Dio albums.
But it did get better on Magica and Killing the Dragon, so it's possible that the Magica sequel(s) he was planning at the time of his passing would have been better, as well...
I have a wholly unsubstantiated and unproven theory on this. I think when Dio just... "created", he was magic. Same with Iommi. Iommi was Johnny on the Spot for Sabbath from Sabotage through Never Say Die, and I LOVE those records. Same with Dio in Rainbow, and when Viv was in Dio. But as time went on, it almost seemed like he had to be "metal", and when he and Iommi got together it was like Iommi HAD to be the sludge-king Riffmaster General. It's the same beef I have with some of the guys that have 4 different projects (and yes, Mike Portnoy falls into this sometimes). When you have the "metal" project, and ONLY the metal ideas are brought out, or the "prog" project, and ONLY the prog ideas get brought out, you suffer from the false constraint.
I liked with Martin that Iommi could do what he wanted; "Can't Get Close Enough" isn't a "heavy metal song", but it RULES.
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I put Magica way above DE, KtD and MotM.
You have those albums listed in the right order.
But to me, Goldie has no personality. Traci G had personality. I didn't care for it, but his albums had an undeniable feel. Goldie? What's his mark on an album. Hell Rowan Robertson owned LUTW as Vivian did on the first few albums. What exactly does Goldie add?
Not sure where you're looking for personality. Whether it's in his actual playing or as a contributor to the material. I found him more soulful as a player than most of Dio's other guitarists (RW excepted), and I found the tone of their albums unique. As for his mark on an album, I'd go with Annika on the Japanese issue of Magica. Shame it was left off the US release, as it was perfect where it was supposed to be.
As an aside, the Magica tour was one of the best Dio shows I've seen. Despite being completely shitfaced and battling a nasty case of the spins off and on, I remember it very well and I definitely remember that Goldie owned that show.
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For some reason the quality just wasn't there for me like it was on Heaven & Hell, Mob Rules, and those first few Dio albums.
But it did get better on Magica and Killing the Dragon, so it's possible that the Magica sequel(s) he was planning at the time of his passing would have been better, as well...
I have a wholly unsubstantiated and unproven theory on this. I think when Dio just... "created", he was magic. Same with Iommi. Iommi was Johnny on the Spot for Sabbath from Sabotage through Never Say Die, and I LOVE those records. Same with Dio in Rainbow, and when Viv was in Dio. But as time went on, it almost seemed like he had to be "metal", and when he and Iommi got together it was like Iommi HAD to be the sludge-king Riffmaster General. It's the same beef I have with some of the guys that have 4 different projects (and yes, Mike Portnoy falls into this sometimes). When you have the "metal" project, and ONLY the metal ideas are brought out, or the "prog" project, and ONLY the prog ideas get brought out, you suffer from the false constraint.
I liked with Martin that Iommi could do what he wanted; "Can't Get Close Enough" isn't a "heavy metal song", but it RULES.
Both Dio and Sabbath were at their best when doing stuff outside of what was expected of them. Note that some of their best work was on albums that the mainstream doesn't like.
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I put Magica way above DE, KtD and MotM.
You have those albums listed in the right order.
But to me, Goldie has no personality. Traci G had personality. I didn't care for it, but his albums had an undeniable feel. Goldie? What's his mark on an album. Hell Rowan Robertson owned LUTW as Vivian did on the first few albums. What exactly does Goldie add?
Not sure where you're looking for personality. Whether it's in his actual playing or as a contributor to the material. I found him more soulful as a player than most of Dio's other guitarists (RW excepted), and I found the tone of their albums unique. As for his mark on an album, I'd go with Annika on the Japanese issue of Magica. Shame it was left off the US release, as it was perfect where it was supposed to be.
As an aside, the Magica tour was one of the best Dio shows I've seen. Despite being completely shitfaced and battling a nasty case of the spins off and on, I remember it very well and I definitely remember that Goldie owned that show.
Bart, I think you like Magica way more than I do. I think I have a few boots from the Magica tour that are good.
I just find nothing remarkable in his playing. Sure live he may have torn it up. I honestly don't remember since it has literally been 29/30 years since I saw Goldie play with him. I love Dream Evil, and I think a handful of Magica tunes are very good, but there's nothing about Goldie himself that makes me go Wow.
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For some reason the quality just wasn't there for me like it was on Heaven & Hell, Mob Rules, and those first few Dio albums.
But it did get better on Magica and Killing the Dragon, so it's possible that the Magica sequel(s) he was planning at the time of his passing would have been better, as well...
I have a wholly unsubstantiated and unproven theory on this. I think when Dio just... "created", he was magic. Same with Iommi. Iommi was Johnny on the Spot for Sabbath from Sabotage through Never Say Die, and I LOVE those records. Same with Dio in Rainbow, and when Viv was in Dio. But as time went on, it almost seemed like he had to be "metal", and when he and Iommi got together it was like Iommi HAD to be the sludge-king Riffmaster General. It's the same beef I have with some of the guys that have 4 different projects (and yes, Mike Portnoy falls into this sometimes). When you have the "metal" project, and ONLY the metal ideas are brought out, or the "prog" project, and ONLY the prog ideas get brought out, you suffer from the false constraint.
I liked with Martin that Iommi could do what he wanted; "Can't Get Close Enough" isn't a "heavy metal song", but it RULES.
Both Dio and Sabbath were at their best when doing stuff outside of what was expected of them. Note that some of their best work was on albums that the mainstream doesn't like.
EXACTLY. Bulls-eye. Nailed it.
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Has anyone seen or is going to see them on 'The End' tour?
I've never seen them live, so I'm planning to see them in Sydney.
They are selling a concert exclusive CD (The End) with 8 songs 4 leftover's from the 13 albums sessions and 4 live songs from the last tour.
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Has anyone seen or is going to see them on 'The End' tour?
I've never seen them live, so I'm planning to see them in Sydney.
Ditto! I was bummed I missed them last tour (too many people touring at once), so I'm glad I got another opportunity to see them in Sydney.
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I think I might have to go and see them too. Never seen them before so my it's last chance obviously.
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Regardless of how Ozzy sounds these days, Black Sabbath is one of those bands I feel I need to see while I can, and I'd regret missing it. Tony and Geezer. Enough said. (I know, shame about Ward, but I can deal with it)
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Ward not being there does leave a sour taste in the mouth, but yeah, Tony is one of my idols so I'll probably try and go.
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I also figured it was the last chance to see such a legendary band. Will be seeing them in two nights!
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:metal Let us know how it goes Jason.
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Will do!! Has anyone heard who is opening for them on this tour?
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Yeah good question. You'd think it would be someone pretty well known.
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Will do!! Has anyone heard who is opening for them on this tour?
I think its rival sons
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Will do!! Has anyone heard who is opening for them on this tour?
I think its rival sons
Copy. Thanks dude
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Never heard of 'em.
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I've heard of them, not my cup of tea
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Christ, I had no idea the tour was starting this early. They're not coming here until late August. Which now compels me to assume that they never make it this far. No chance in hell Ozzy holds up 7 months on tour.
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Christ, I had no idea the tour was starting this early. They're not coming here until late August. Which now compels me to assume that they never make it this far. No chance in hell Ozzy holds up 7 months on tour.
After each leg of the tour they take a few weeks to a month off.
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Christ, I had no idea the tour was starting this early. They're not coming here until late August. Which now compels me to assume that they never make it this far. No chance in hell Ozzy holds up 7 months on tour.
Ozzy? Iommi, given the last four weeks...
And is it any wonder that they aren't caving to Bill's unreasonable and delusional demands to be the full tour drummer?
I'm going to go, though, in August when they come to Connecticut.
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And is it any wonder that they aren't caving to Bill's unreasonable and delusional demands to be the full tour drummer?
What were they?
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And is it any wonder that they aren't caving to Bill's unreasonable and delusional demands to be the full tour drummer?
What were they?
I think it was just along the lines of "I drum for the whole tour or not at all."
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I thought it was just a matter of wanting an equal cut or something like that, at least according to him.
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I thought it was just a matter of wanting an equal cut or something like that, at least according to him.
That's what I recall too. He was saying something like it wasn't split equally between the four or something along those lines. I think he was aiming it all at Sharon.
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I thought it was just a matter of wanting an equal cut or something like that, at least according to him.
That's what I recall too. He was saying something like it wasn't split equally between the four or something along those lines. I think he was aiming it all at Sharon.
Here's my understanding:
Ward wanted to be THE drummer for the album and tour. No "co-drummer", no "drummer in the wings", no "drummer backstage". THE GUY. He wanted 25% of EVERYTHING, including writing and publishing credits, even though by most (if not all) accounts, the material was at least frameworked out before he ever got involved.
Everyone keeps blaming Sharon, but honestly, I'm pointing the finger at Tony Iommi. When it comes to Sabbath, Ozzy's involvement is tied to Sharon, but Sabbath as a unit doesn't fart without Tony's giving the A-ok. Even Geezer has sort of conceded the torch to Iommi, though because of the lyrical contributions, he does get a writing credit.
The fact is, this is an investment of YEARS, and TENS of millions of dollars. If you've got a guy that all three of the other guys do not believe can cut the mustard, it's not fair to them to hold them hostage over your petty gripes. In fact, I would imagine that the management - I don't mean Sharon, I mean the tour promoters, insurers, labor providers, etc. - have a say in this too; if I'm being asked to provide insurance for this tour, and they tell me that Bill Ward is a quarter of the endeavor, I'm saying "NOPE." Because my investment is now at multiples of risk from what it was.
Finally, everyone talks about the "fans". The "fans" this, and the "fans" that, but how happy are the fans going to be when they shelled out $125 for a ticket that is now unredeemable because the drummer had a heart attack and couldn't go on? Or that they shelled out $125 THINKING it was Bill and finding out it's some guy named Clusterfuck or whatever his name is? Think about the flack that James got for his voice after the food-poisoning incident. Do you think fans gave a fuck that he "toughed it out"?
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Even with tonys illness it was bills health I was most concerned about.
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Man what a great show last night. If you get a chance to see them on this tour, I highly recommend it. The show was much better than I thought it was going to be and Ozzy sounded great. Awesome set list too!
Rival Sons didn't float my boat whatsoever though
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Cool shit Jason. Looks like I might definitely have to see them now.
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Cool shit Jason. Looks like I might definitely have to see them now.
You'll love it!
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Everyone keeps blaming Sharon, but honestly, I'm pointing the finger at Tony Iommi. When it comes to Sabbath, Ozzy's involvement is tied to Sharon, but Sabbath as a unit doesn't fart without Tony's giving the A-ok. Even Geezer has sort of conceded the torch to Iommi, though because of the lyrical contributions, he does get a writing credit.
While Iommi controls Black Sabbath, Sharron controls Ozzy and there's no way that filthy cunt has him participating if she has limited involvement in this. The truth is that Iommi needs Ozzy more than the Osbournes need Black Sabbath and they all know that. If FCSO didn't want Ward inolved, there wouldn't be much Iommi could do about it. Moreover, despite, or perhaps because of, her being a wretched bag of pus, she does make money. From Iommi's perspective it might well be in his best interest to let her call the shots. It happens because he gets Ozzy hogging the spotlight and it slashes and burns its way to a gazillion dollars as she squeezes every last pence from the market.
I did see that Rival Sons got the opening slot because they impressed Sharon and Ozzy. Further lending credence to my opinion that she's calling the shots. Personally, I wonder how much they had to pay for that spot.
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Everyone keeps blaming Sharon, but honestly, I'm pointing the finger at Tony Iommi. When it comes to Sabbath, Ozzy's involvement is tied to Sharon, but Sabbath as a unit doesn't fart without Tony's giving the A-ok. Even Geezer has sort of conceded the torch to Iommi, though because of the lyrical contributions, he does get a writing credit.
While Iommi controls Black Sabbath, Sharron controls Ozzy and there's no way that filthy cunt has him participating if she has limited involvement in this. The truth is that Iommi needs Ozzy more than the Osbournes need Black Sabbath and they all know that. If FCSO didn't want Ward inolved, there wouldn't be much Iommi could do about it. Moreover, despite, or perhaps because of, her being a wretched bag of pus, she does make money. From Iommi's perspective it might well be in his best interest to let her call the shots. It happens because he gets Ozzy hogging the spotlight and it slashes and burns its way to a gazillion dollars as she squeezes every last pence from the market.
I did see that Rival Sons got the opening slot because they impressed Sharon and Ozzy. Further lending credence to my opinion that she's calling the shots. Personally, I wonder how much they had to pay for that spot.
I can't argue with any of that, other than to say, if Iommi felt that bad about it, he COULD go off and do his thing. But I think you're right; cash in for one last BIG payday while the fingers still move and the bodies are still warm, and if the only wreckage is a drummer who might or might not have been able to cut the gig to start with, so be it. Though Ozzy does claim to still be mates with Bill, though I find that hard to believe.
I saw Rival Sons on Jools Holland's show, and I thought they ROCKED. I remember thinking the singer sounded like someone excellent (Paul Rodgers? I don't remember) and I thought it might be need to see them. Well, I'm going to Sabbath in August, so perhaps I will...
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I just find it odd that it's Ward that they're concerned about being unable to hack it. Ozzy has a pretty spotty track record. With Ozzfest it was an easy enough thing to get the other big bands to cover the show. With this, however, Ozzy comes up lame and it's refund time. At least with Bill Ward you could have found a drummer to cover for him.
Years ago, my concert buddies were traveling around Cali with plans to catch Ozzfest somewhere North. They rolled into the venue like the Griswolds to find the place deserted, as Ozzy's health had led to a postponement. There were several postponements and several times that Maiden played full sets because there was no Sabbath on that tour. I can only imagine that he's less capable now, ten years later.
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https://www.blabbermouth.net/news/lita-ford-details-alleged-abusive-relationship-with-tony-iommi-in-her-memoir/
Wow! Why bring this up now? Seems a bit far fetched, Tony seems so super chill.
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Tony doesn't seem like the guy to me, although coke is a hell of a drug. There may be some truth to it, but I expect it's largely exaggerated.
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Tony doesn't seem like the guy to me, although coke is a hell of a drug. There may be some truth to it, but I expect it's largely exaggerated.
I really dunno what the hell to make of Lita Ford these days - the father of her children (Jim from Nitro) is crazy as they come and yet a court decided to award him custody of their children. Makes you wonder.
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Yeah, as much as I admire her as a musician, she never across to me as all that stable mentally.
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Read over at Eddie Trunk; there is a sort of synopsis and if she is correct, she banged Jon Bon Jovi, Richie Sambora, Aldo Nova, Nikki Sixx, Tony Iommi, Ritchie Blackmore, Dee Dee Ramone, John Entwhistle, Glenn Tipton, Eddie Van Halen... it just strains credibility.
You don't think that even ONE of these stories would have come out sooner? Even just one?
I was never really a fan, and this isn't going to change anything. Even if it was all true, what's the point other than ruining other people's lives? Who's going to buy this?
And then the kicker... she allegedly says "out of respect for my children, I won't talk about Gillette"??? But it's okay for her children to know she fucked her way across Los Angeles and now put any credibility she might have had as a player in doubt (c'mon, you don't think the sex had ANYTHING to do with her getting and keeping a record contract? NOTHING?)
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I don't think Iommi will really give a fuck anyways.
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I don't think Iommi will really give a fuck anyways.
I think this sums up the entire situation.
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I don't think Iommi will really give a fuck anyways.
I think this sums up the entire situation.
And, I don't think any of his fans would give a fuck anyway, I certainly don't.
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Great news for fans of the Tony Martin era of the band:
https://www.blabbermouth.net/news/tony-iommi-wants-to-record-new-music-with-ex-black-sabbath-singer-tony-martin/
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This should be awesome..............hopefully
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Hell yeah! I wish they were doing a whole new album, but I'll take anything!
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Love the Tony Martin era, and this is good news for me.
But fuck Blabbermouth; they're whores. The whole premise of the current info is that Iommi is NOT ignoring the Martin years; he very clearly just said his priority is the Ozzy thing, but they WILL be re-released in their entirety. So why re-print the four year old quote that is now totally and utterly irrelevant???
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Why does anyone even use Blabbermouth when Bravewords is much better?
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Tony Martin only yesterday hinted that he would be working with Iommi in 2017, via FB.
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:bump:
I saw Sabbath on their farewell tour in Helsinki a month ago. Unfortunately I didn't get The End CD, because there were only overpriced signed copies available at the merch stand, but Ozzy sounded surprisingly good and it was a cool show with a cool line-up, including Opeth, Rival Sons and Amorphis. :metal I wrote a report, which you can read here (https://www.musicalypse.net/monsters-of-rock-kaisaniemen-puisto-helsinki-07-07-2016-english/).
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I don't post in this thread a lot, mainly because it seems like the discussion is never about the early material, but I just wanted to drop in to say that Sabbra Cadabra is easily a top 5 Sabbath tune (along with Hand of Doom, Fairies Wear Boots, Children of the Sea and either Black Sabbath or War Pigs). :metal
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War Pigs is one of the greatest songs ever by any band, it's one of those songs that I never get tired of hearing. The namesake song on the other hand has never done much for me. I get that it was super heavy and revolutionary for it's time, but I've always just found it kind of boring.
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I've got tickets to see them in Birmingham UK in February, coz hell, it's Sabbath, but the tickets were hideously overpriced all things considered (Ozzy being a f**king mess these days, short set punctuated by lengthy drum and bass solos, odd setlist choices).
As for Lita Ford - what Kim Fowley alledgedly put the Runaways through, it's surprising she's as sane as she is.
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Apparently Tony's cancer is in remission :metal
https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/news/midlands-news/black-sabbaths-tony-iommi-reveals-11726966 (https://www.ultimate-guitar.com/news/general_music_news/tony_iommis_cancer_is_in_remission.html?no_takeover)
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Great fucking news.
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War Pigs is one of the greatest songs ever by any band, it's one of those songs that I never get tired of hearing. The namesake song on the other hand has never done much for me. I get that it was super heavy and revolutionary for it's time, but I've always just found it kind of boring.
War Pigs. That's one of those songs that on paper is SO FUCKING EASY, I could teach my 8 year old, uncoordinated, purely and utterly unmusical son to play, and yet... I don't think I've ever heard anyone play it EXACTLY like Tony does, with the little slides into each chord, the harmonics as the chord rings... I think they do him an injustice when they limit him to being the "RIFFMEISTER GENERAL", but he's amazing (though for me, there is no Sabbath without Geezer).
For what it's worth, Sabbath Bloody Sabbath is in my top ten albums by any band ever category. I love that record from top to flipping bottom.
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I've got tickets to see them in Birmingham UK in February, coz hell, it's Sabbath, but the tickets were hideously overpriced all things considered (Ozzy being a f**king mess these days, short set punctuated by lengthy drum and bass solos, odd setlist choices).
As for Lita Ford - what Kim Fowley alledgedly put the Runaways through, it's surprising she's as sane as she is.
I respectfully disagree with most of your post - all accounts are that Ozzy is delivering on this tour like few in the past 20 years, the setlist has some interesting nuggets for fans (though I'd personally like to switch out Dirty Women for something from SBS or Sabotage), and Lita Ford isn't within 560 miles of 'sane' (if you believe her, she slept with every single guitar player in LA that released an album between the years of 1986 and 1991 while high on coke and while Tony Iommi batted her about the head) - but I have to say, I'm envious of you seeing Sabbath in their hometown on one of their two final gigs EVER. That's magic, man.
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I respectfully disagree with most of your post - all accounts are that Ozzy is delivering on this tour like few in the past 20 years, the setlist has some interesting nuggets for fans (though I'd personally like to switch out Dirty Women for something from SBS or Sabotage), and Lita Ford isn't within 560 miles of 'sane' (if you believe her, she slept with every single guitar player in LA that released an album between the years of 1986 and 1991 while high on coke and while Tony Iommi batted her about the head) - but I have to say, I'm envious of you seeing Sabbath in their hometown on one of their two final gigs EVER. That's magic, man.
I know Ozzy was a mess on some of the 13 tour dates, so I am so hoping he's on form this time round - I'm pretty sure the atmosphere will more than make up for any shortcomings. But from what I've seen, he does still seem to think the lyrics to every song are "Let me see your fookin hands in the air!" - which gets tiring after a while. For me, SBS and Sabotage are the best 2 albums, so I'm a little disappointed they're being overlooked, and yes, Dirty Women is one of the worst songs in rock history.
But yes, I'm really looking forward to it! Even if they're awful, it's still BLACK FECKING SABBATH! :metal :metal :metal
I can't really comment on Lita Ford's sanity. She was very young when she came into the business, and by all accounts was used and abused by the industry from the start. It's not uncommon for victims of abuse at a young age to have a warped view of adult relationships, so if she claims she grew up to be a slut, I'm inclined to believe her, especially given some of the stories that have emerged about Fowley since his death. Mental Health is a serious issue, and the woman deserves a little empathy is all I'm saying.
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They just did a promotion at the local venue, one ticket for $20 including taxes and fees. So I picked up two, going to ask my father to come see them in two weeks. My father saw them as a kid at MSG and had mentioned the idea of wanting to go. I've really never listened to them besides the hit songs although I've seen them once before in 2005 at Ozzfest with Iron Maiden.
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I'm going to drive up to Boston to see them on the 25th (they are playing CT on the 27th, but I'm going to be away).
I saw Ozzy solo with Joe Holmes, and it was average at best (@Orange, you're right about the "get your fookin' hands in the air", though then I think it was "let's go fookin' cray-zeeeeee!") and I saw Sabbath with Tony Martin twice. Once with Geezer and it was unbelievable, and once with Neil Murray and it was okay. I don't think most people realize how much Geezer has to do with the sound of Sabbath.
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I don't think most people realize how much Geezer has to do with the sound of Sabbath.
Seeing them live, you have to notice it. His playing is amazing. Heavy, massive and very much "in your face". I think he´s as much responsible for their sound as Iommi.
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Apparently Tony's cancer is in remission :metal
https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/news/midlands-news/black-sabbaths-tony-iommi-reveals-11726966 (https://www.ultimate-guitar.com/news/general_music_news/tony_iommis_cancer_is_in_remission.html?no_takeover)
The Iron Man :metal
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I'm a huge fan of the Tony Martin era. At the same time, he was never very good live and at this point his voice is completely shot. Last few videos I've seen he had Claude Schnell singing the high parts off stage while he sang the harmonies. The other problem is that little of the Martin stuff featured Geezer. Not sure he'd want to be focusing on material that didn't involve him.
Glad to hear Tony's cancer is in remission, but I thought that it had been for a couple of years. This doesn't strike me as new news.
My problem with Ozzy's antics is that the "lemme see your fucking hands"* is always happening when somebody else is doing something kick ass. Unlike Stadler, I'd watch them play 2 hours of Dirty Women. Last time I saw it live the whole time Tony is whipping ass Ozzy is running around, screaming and throwing buckets of water at people.** He's always done that. He behaves as if Sabbath is his backing band, which I find offensive.
Even Geezer's subtle stuff is great. His quiet work during Southern Cross is thrilling to watch live.
In the videos I've seen of this tour (admittedly quite some time ago) Ozzy sounded pretty awful. However, I always assume that to be the case and then if he's not then I'm pleasantly surprised. That makes for a double bonus, in that I'm also pleasantly surprised if he's even able to attend and the show's not cancelled.
Sharron Osbourne is still one of the most vile and repulsive things on the planet. I'm going to see them at some point, don't know when because the tickets were purchased a year ago, and I still feel rotten that awful creature will make a buck or two off of it. As far as I'm concerned she still owes me ~$800.
*Ozzy is English, not Swedish. I don't recall his "fucking" sounding any different than us yank's.
**As anybody that's heard the story might recall, there was a lot more interesting stuff going on that Ozzy's antics. Hell, Iommi's southpaw'd SG mayhem was probably second or third on the list.
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*Ozzy is English, not Swedish. I don't recall his "fucking" sounding any different than us yank's.
To be fair, everything Ozzy says does not sound like anything from us yanks or any other human being :lol
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I'm a huge fan of the Tony Martin era. At the same time, he was never very good live and at this point his voice is completely shot. Last few videos I've seen he had Claude Schnell singing the high parts off stage while he sang the harmonies. The other problem is that little of the Martin stuff featured Geezer. Not sure he'd want to be focusing on material that didn't involve him.
Glad to hear Tony's cancer is in remission, but I thought that it had been for a couple of years. This doesn't strike me as new news.
My problem with Ozzy's antics is that the "lemme see your fucking hands"* is always happening when somebody else is doing something kick ass. Unlike Stadler, I'd watch them play 2 hours of Dirty Women. Last time I saw it live the whole time Tony is whipping ass Ozzy is running around, screaming and throwing buckets of water at people.** He's always done that. He behaves as if Sabbath is his backing band, which I find offensive.
Even Geezer's subtle stuff is great. His quiet work during Southern Cross is thrilling to watch live.
In the videos I've seen of this tour (admittedly quite some time ago) Ozzy sounded pretty awful. However, I always assume that to be the case and then if he's not then I'm pleasantly surprised. That makes for a double bonus, in that I'm also pleasantly surprised if he's even able to attend and the show's not cancelled.
Sharron Osbourne is still one of the most vile and repulsive things on the planet. I'm going to see them at some point, don't know when because the tickets were purchased a year ago, and I still feel rotten that awful creature will make a buck or two off of it. As far as I'm concerned she still owes me ~$800.
*Ozzy is English, not Swedish. I don't recall his "fucking" sounding any different than us yank's.
**As anybody that's heard the story might recall, there was a lot more interesting stuff going on that Ozzy's antics. Hell, Iommi's southpaw'd SG mayhem was probably second or third on the list.
I saw the Cross Purposes tour (the one WITH Geezer) and the Forbidden tour, exactly (to the day) one year apart in the same venue with the same opening act (Motorhead). CP RULED, Forbidden, eh (even though Cozy was on that tour). Both shows Martin struggled (sounded sick, and was eating cough drops like they were, well, cough drops). Psychophobia was worth the price of admission alone.
The "*" is of course correct. He has that gravelly growl when he screams, but you're right, he doesn't sound like Ringo Starr or anything.
The "**" demands a retelling, because it sounds like there is a story there. ;)
I actually LIKE the song Dirty Women, but it's sort of the "song they pull out when they don't want to stick to the first four albums". It's been on every tour since the tour that gave us "Reunion". It's not because I dislike the song (I actually LOVE Technical Ecstacy as an album) but I'd like to hear Gypsy or Spiral Architect (also played on the Reunion tour), Shock Wave or Over To You, or Megalomania or... you get the drift.
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For what it's worth, Sabbath Bloody Sabbath is in my top ten albums by any band ever category. I love that record from top to flipping bottom.
I can only imagine if the 'net had been around when it came out. Sabbath fans would have bitched non-stop..."OMG, what is with all of those keyboards??" "WTF is Who Are You??" :lol :lol
But yeah, great album, and probably my 3rd favorite of theirs (after the first two). I like it just a bit more than Heaven and Hell & Sabotage (which would be 4th and 5th).
Oh, and Master of Reality is highly overrated. There it is. :biggrin:
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Well, Sweet Leaf sure is. But Into The Void is so freaking great.
My favorite Ozzy era album is Sabotage.
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Yeah Master of Reality is pretty overrated, but Into The Void is still a fantastic song. How about some love for Volume 4 though? Lots of cool stuff there. The outro section of Under The Sun is probably one of my favorite Iommi riffs. Supernaut and Wheels of Confusion are amazing as well, and Snowblind is a top Sabbath song for me. And Laguna Sunrise is one of my favorite "pretty" Iommi pieces.
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I've never really gotten the love for Into the Void. I don't dislike it, but it's just kind of there for me. The only songs I ever go for from that one are After Forever and (wait for it) Solitude.
Volume 4 is really good. Wheels of Confusion is a top 10 Sabbath tune, and Under the Sun is chock full of Iommi godliness, in the main riffs and the outro.
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Forgot to address this...
My favorite Ozzy era album is Sabotage.
Despite the suckage that is Am I Going Insane, it's a fantastic record. The Writ and Symptom of the Universe are two of my favorite Sabbath tunes, and Megalomania and The Thrill of It All are not far behind. Such great tunes. :hat
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My favorite is Sabbath Bloody Sabbath, but Paranoid and Sabotage come really close.
Wouldn't be a DTF discussion without a list:
1: Sabbath Bloody Sabbath
2: Paranoid
3: Sabotage
4: Volume 4
5: Master of Reality
6: Never Say Die!
7: Technical Ecstasy
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Every time I see a discussion like this on Sabbath I give myself a big WTF? for never really bothering with Ozzy era Sabbath. I am a massive Ozzy solo fan from Blizzard through No More Tears (RR Tribute was #3 in my DTF Top 50, an album that includes a couple of Sabbath tracks ) but somehow I never seem to get around to it. Makes the usual note to myself to remedy that ::)
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I've never really gotten the love for Into the Void. I don't dislike it, but it's just kind of there for me. The only songs I ever go for from that one are After Forever and (wait for it) Solitude.
Volume 4 is really good. Wheels of Confusion is a top 10 Sabbath tune, and Under the Sun is chock full of Iommi godliness, in the main riffs and the outro.
For the longest time I didn't really get Into The Void either. I didn't dislike it but I didn't love it either. Then one day a few months ago it just clicked and I loved it. Geezer's got some great bass work on that song. I tried typing out this detailed explanation of this one riff he plays, but it was just really confusing, it's much easier to just say Geezer is amazing.
I love Solitude too, I was going to name drop it but I didn't want to be laughed out of the thread.
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In the videos I've seen of this tour (admittedly quite some time ago) Ozzy sounded pretty awful.
Based on the videos I've watched, he was pretty bad at the start of the tour (wasn't he sick back then?), but he improved a lot in the summer. When I saw them he sounded good for the most part and was noticeably off-key on just a few songs.
As for rankings, my top 3 is Master of Reality, Paranoid and Sabbath Bloody Sabbath. Into the Void is actually my favorite Sabbath song. :P
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My favourite Sabbath song is Spiral Architect, and my favourite album is probably Master Of Reality. Sabbath Bloody Sabbath is up there too.
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I listen to some albums on regular basis but often forget to spin others. So yesterday I listened to Sabotage, pretty good album :metal
Master of Reality is my favorite, Paranoid and Sabbath Blood Sabbath are almost as great in my book. Anyone else love Technical Ecstasy?
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Forgot to address this...
My favorite Ozzy era album is Sabotage.
Despite the suckage that is Am I Going Insane, it's a fantastic record. The Writ and Symptom of the Universe are two of my favorite Sabbath tunes, and Megalomania and The Thrill of It All are not far behind. Such great tunes. :hat
AIGI isn't a bad song once you get past the cheesy keyboard intro. The problem is that it falls in the middle of what would otherwise be a God damned onslaught of Megalomania, The Thrill of it All, Supernaut and The Writ. If they'd moved AIGI to side one, side two could well be the single greatest album side of any album. But man, you get over the insane heavyness of Supernaut and plow right on into that awful keyboard intro and it's a complete downer.
As for favorite albums, my top three would probably have to be SBS, Sabotage and Tyr. Sucks to have followed Ozzy and Dio, but the Tony Martin era is full of great stuff.
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Saw Bush era Anthrax play Supernaut and it was unreal.
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Anyone interested in me doing a Sabbath discography, like I did with Kiss a while back? Or Priest (the problem with Priest is I don't have the two Ripper albums, and I'm not going to get them)?
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If you did Priest, I'd be happy to guest-host the two Ripper albums. And that would definitely be something that I'm interested in, a Priest discography.
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I'd be interested in both but would rather see them in chronological order. Will participate regardless of how you decide to do it though.
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I'm interested in Priest indeed.
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I'll be interested, I like reading people's discography threads.
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My favorite is Sabbath Bloody Sabbath, but Paranoid and Sabotage come really close.
Wouldn't be a DTF discussion without a list:
1: Sabbath Bloody Sabbath
2: Paranoid
3: Sabotage
4: Volume 4
5: Master of Reality
6: Never Say Die!
7: Technical Ecstasy
Not too different from my ranking:
1: Paranoid
2: Sabbath Bloody Sabbath
3: Sabotage
4: Master of Reality
5: Vol. 4
6: S/T
7: Never Say Die!
8: Technical Ecstasy
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You guys missed the first album!
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You guys missed the first album!
Good catch! edited :laugh:
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All right. Priest it is, in chronological order, skipping the Ripper albums (or with Scorpion guesting, at his pleasure). Gimme the weekend to listen up and start (plus I'm traveling).
Awesome.
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Oops. Black Sabbath is in between Master of Reality and Never Say Die.
Would like to see at least Jugulator included. Don't care about Demolition.
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1. Master of reality
2. Paranoid
3. Black sabbath
4. Sabotage
5. Sabbath bloody sabbath
6. Vol 4
7. Technical ecstasy
8. Never say die
3 and 4 switch around sometimes, and so to 6 and 7.
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Ranking Sabbath with Ozzy:
1 - Sabbath Bloody Sabbath
2 - Master Of Reality
3 - Sabotage
4 - Vol. 4
5 - Paranoid
6 - Black Sabbath
7 - 13
8 - Never Say Die
9 - Technical Ecstasy
With Dio:
1 - Heaven And Hell
2 - The Devil You Know (poetic license here :lol)
3 - Dehumanizer
4 - The Mob Rules
With Tony Martin:
1 - Headless Cross
2 - The Eternal Idol
3 - TYR
4 - Cross Purposes
5 - Forbidden
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AIGI isn't a bad song once you get past the cheesy keyboard intro. The problem is that it falls in the middle of what would otherwise be a God damned onslaught of Megalomania, The Thrill of it All, Supernaut and The Writ. If they'd moved AIGI to side one, side two could well be the single greatest album side of any album. But man, you get over the insane heavyness of Supernaut and plow right on into that awful keyboard intro and it's a complete downer.
Wait, Supernaut is from Volume 4; did you mean Symptom of the Universe or Superztar?
I will admit I have a hard time getting past that keyboard intro of ...Going Insane. It's so bad.
And I have to admit that I have never heard any Sabbath from the Tony Martin era. *ducks*
Gimme some songs to check out and I will rush over to YT to check them out. 4-5 will work (in other words, don't be like, Hey, check out these 39 songs :lol).
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I certainly wouldn't want to overrate the Martin era, as I do see that around here. But there are some great moments.
I completely thumbed my nose at it while it was happening. It's one of my biggest "music regrets". They came around a few times. Not even having Cozy Powell could get me to buy into it. And I feel like if it wasn't called Black Sabbath, I would've approached it completely differently.
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Gimme some songs to check out and I will rush over to YT to check them out. 4-5 will work (in other words, don't be like, Hey, check out these 39 songs :lol).
The Battle of Tyr -> Odin's Court -> Valhalla (two short interludes/intros and a proper song)
When Death Calls
The Shining
Headless Cross
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[/quote] AIGI isn't a bad song once you get past the cheesy keyboard intro. The problem is that it falls in the middle of what would otherwise be a God damned onslaught of Megalomania, The Thrill of it All, Supernaut and The Writ. If they'd moved AIGI to side one, side two could well be the single greatest album side of any album. But man, you get over the insane heavyness of Supernaut and plow right on into that awful keyboard intro and it's a complete downer.
Wait, Supernaut is from Volume 4; did you mean Symptom of the Universe or Superztar?
I will admit I have a hard time getting past that keyboard intro of ...Going Insane. It's so bad.
And I have to admit that I have never heard any Sabbath from the Tony Martin era. *ducks*
Gimme some songs to check out and I will rush over to YT to check them out. 4-5 will work (in other words, don't be like, Hey, check out these 39 songs :lol).
Yeah, definitely Supertzar. I actually despise Supernaut. Go figure.
From the Sabbath Survivor a few years back. Pretty reasonable assessment, though certainly not perfect.
Ancient Warrior
- 0 (0%)
The Shining
- 0 (0%)
Glory Ride
- 0 (0%)
When Death Calls
- 0 (0%)
Headless Cross
- 0 (0%)
The Sabbath Stones
- 0 (0%)
Anno Mundi
- 0 (0%)
Cross of Thorns
- 1 (16.7%)
I Witness
- 0 (0%)
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I certainly wouldn't want to overrate the Martin era, as I do see that around here. But there are some great moments.
I completely thumbed my nose at it while it was happening. It's one of my biggest "music regrets". They came around a few times. Not even having Cozy Powell could get me to buy into it. And I feel like if it wasn't called Black Sabbath, I would've approached it completely differently.
Tony Martin era doesn't do it for me at all.
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I think Wolf and myself are the same when it comes to Sabbath. More of a casual fan of the Ozzy era, but a mega fan of the Dio and Martin era. Plus love Born Again, Seventh Star and the Ray Gillen demos.
Ozzy era- 1) Sabbath Bloody Sabbath 2) Paranoid 3) Master of Reality 4) Sabotage 5) Black Sabbath 6) Vol 4 7) Never Say Die 8) Technical Ecstasy 9) 13
Dio era- 1) Heaven & Hell 2) Mob Rules 3) Dehumanizer 4) Devil You Know
It just shows how good the first three Dio fronted albums are because I would say The Devil You Know is one of my favorite new metal albums of the last ten years and still ranks last of the four Dio albums
Martin era- 1) Headless Cross 2) Eternal Idol 3) Tyr 4) Cross Purposes 5) Forbidden
Forbidden is easily the worst of the Martin albums but still has some great tunes. I will try and ignore that ice T song though lol. Now that the reunion tour seems to be winding down, hopefully Tony can finish up releasing the Martin deluxe albums. Sounds like Tony is open to recording something new with Martin as well. Hopefully on the Headless Cross deluxe, they release that Russia live show from 1989. Great stuff!
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7 - 13
Holy shit, how did I forget about this one?
It would be one spot above Never say die for me. Not a bad album by any means, I just didn't find it too memorable.
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I actually despise Supernaut. Go figure.
Interesting. It's not a favorite of mine, but it sure does rock and sounds fine when I listen to Volume 4 (Changes is one I always skip).
Anyway, I checked out a couple Tony Martin-era tunes on YT last night. Anno Mundi (The Vision) was pretty good; I could see listening to that one again. Valhalla was alright.
Big Hath, I will try those others you recommended. :coolio
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Annu Mundi is awesome.
My fave Martin era album is Cross Purposes. I Witness, Crown Of Thorns, Imaculate Deception, and Psychophobia are all great tunes.
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I actually despise Supernaut. Go figure.
Dude, that makes like zero sense. :)
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Haha, I agree. I mean, it's not a top tier Sabbath tune, but it's still a nice rocker. :metal
Back to Master of Reality, even though I think it is easily the least best of the first six, I get why so many love it. It was kind of the start of the whole doom and sludge thing, which became big in the metal world, so I get why that appeals to a lot of people; I am just not a big sludge or doom metal guy, so there ya go.
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I really like Sweet Leaf, Into the Void, and Children of the Grave. As for the rest, I can take it or leave it.
With early Sabbath there's definitely two major sides to the band: the more doom-y stuff and then the more progressive sounding stuff. I like both sides but naturally I gravitate more toward Sabbath Bloody Sabbath and Sabotage.
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I think the first album might still be their best (if we count Wicked World as the 2nd to last track, not Evil Woman).
Side 1 has to be one of the greatest album sides of the early 70s:
Black Sabbath
The Wizard
Behind the Wall of Sleep (most underrated awesome Sabbath song from the classic era!!)
N.I.B.
:metal :metal
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I actually despise Supernaut. Go figure.
Dude, that makes like zero sense. :)
My thoughts exactly. :o
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Sabotage is my Favorite Ozzy era album. The writ and Megalomania are also two of my favorite Sabbath songs. I was really surprised to learn that The Writ was mostly written by Ozzy.
My least Favorite Ozzy era album is Technical Ecstasy. The rest I have no idea how to rank. Though I do think Never Say Die is underrated.
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Never Say Die certainly has its moments and is far superior to the previous album. I think the problem is mostly lack of direction. It feels like they are taking 2 or 3 different directions instead of settling on one and building on that. Everything just seems really half baked.
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Sabotage is my Favorite Ozzy era album. The writ and Megalomania are also two of my favorite Sabbath songs.
Same here.
Never Say Die certainly has its moments
I love Junior's Eyes. Amazing. Johnny Blade and the title track as well. And even though I've often defended NSD, if I'm being honest, there really isn't much beyond that.
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As great as The Writ is, it sounds like one of those songs they had no clue how to end. The last 40 seconds or so is basically that heavy riff repeated over and over, with no real progression to it, eventually fading out.
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Hey, I like that part!
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Hey, I do, too!
It just sounds like they had no clue how to end the song, so they just did that. Drugs can do that to your mind. :lol :lol
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Woah, Junior's Eyes just blew my mind. Johnny Blade was great too. Prior to this the only song off NSD I knew was the title track. Now I'm kind of regretting all the times I've found this album for a couple bucks and passed on it.
This thread really makes me want to even up my Sabbath collection.
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The thing about Never Say Die was that it moved away from the doom metal thing that Sabbath was known for. It had more of a straightforward hard rock sound which I honestly think was a blueprint for Ozzy's solo stuff.
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Woah, Junior's Eyes just blew my mind. Johnny Blade was great too.
:metal
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Never Say Die is a wonderful album. I always loved Air Dance, so good. Tony's jazz influences in full flight here.
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Never Say Die is a wonderful album. I always loved Air Dance, so good. Tony's jazz influences in full flight here.
I agree, on both accounts. Such a great album.
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Back to Master of Reality, even though I think it is easily the least best of the first six, I get why so many love it. It was kind of the start of the whole doom and sludge thing, which became big in the metal world, so I get why that appeals to a lot of people; I am just not a big sludge or doom metal guy, so there ya go.
Disagreed. Vol. 4, for me, is easily the worst of the first six albums. Never understood the love that one gets.
I'm not sure how I'd rank the albums exactly, but some combination of Paranoid, SBS, Sabotage, and Heaven and Hell would be my favorites. Master of Reality is a great album but a bit uneven and, while I do enjoy it, I much prefer the sludgier doom and weird experimentation of the later albums over the bluesier noodling of the debut.
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I guess, for me, Volume 4 has two of their all-time good ones in Wheels of Confusion and Under the Sun, and most of the rest is good (Changes, notwithstanding). In my eyes, nothing on Master of Reality can touch those two greats from Vol. 4.
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I definitely would take Vol 4 over MOR, but Into The Void is the best song on either. I also love The Straightener. Wish they could've formed that into something a bit more.
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I think Solitude is highly underrated and pretty damn good actually. Love the vibe.
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I think Solitude is highly underrated and pretty damn good actually. Love the vibe.
Same here. I always wished Sabbath would've done more songs in the Solitude/Planet Caravan style. Zeitgeist was alright, but not quite the same.
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Woah, Junior's Eyes just blew my mind. Johnny Blade was great too.
:metal
Yeah, took me forever to finally listen to NSD, and when I did I had the exact same reaction. J's really floored me. JB is alright, but pretty disjointed.
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Have you guys heard this cover of Changes?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xi49yirJiEA
Gave me new appreciation for the song.
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WOW! That's awesome!! Nice find.
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Have you guys heard this cover of Changes?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xi49yirJiEA
Gave me new appreciation for the song.
What an odd song to cover :lol
Well that was certainly better than the original, which probably ranks as my least favorite Ozzy - era Sabbath song.
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Your least favorite?
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Yeah. I find it to be dirge-like.
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Gord, where are you on Master Of Reality?
I listened to it yesterday. I do agree with Kev that it is sludgey. It was the first Sabbath album (I had the 8 track) that I had. It's probably the reason why I never really got into Ozzy era Sabbath in my formative years.
It was only when Halford fronted them in Cosa Mesa in 1991 that I truly bought into Into The Void, which is now a Top 5 Ozzy era track for me.
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Gord, where are you on Master Of Reality?
I listened to it yesterday. I do agree with Kev that it is sludgey. It was the first Sabbath album (I had the 8 track) that I had. It's probably the reason why I never really got into Ozzy era Sabbath in my formative years.
It was only when Halford fronted them in Cosa Mesa in 1991 that I truly bought into Into The Void, which is now a Top 5 Ozzy era track for me.
I love Master of Reality but I do understand why Kev and others might not be crazy about the album. It's not as diverse as the rest of the discography. There's a saminess in all the song tempos and riffing. I think I put it 4th or 5th, flip flopping with Vol 4 depending on my mood.
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Have you guys heard this cover of Changes?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xi49yirJiEA
Gave me new appreciation for the song.
What an odd song to cover :lol
Well that was certainly better than the original, which probably ranks as my least favorite Ozzy - era Sabbath song.
Charles Bradley is a soul singer, so it's actually an appropriate song for him to cover. The whole album is in a similar vein. Highly recommended btw.
I think there are far worse Sabbath era Ozzy tunes. Changes is a good song that is just totally inappropriate for Ozzy.
Who Are You, for example, is far worse. Probably my least favorite. You can give a song like Changes to a real soul singer and improve it a lot but a song like Who Are You is pretty unredeemable.
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The Changes cover by Charles Bradley is awesome.
Speaking of great covers, i love Pantera's version of Planet Caravan and Ulver's Solitude. And i am a big fan of the first Nativity in Black album, with some cool versions from Biohazard, Bruce Dickinson, White Zombie, Type O Negative (best version of Black Sabbath ever) and others.
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Back to Master of Reality, even though I think it is easily the least best of the first six, I get why so many love it. It was kind of the start of the whole doom and sludge thing, which became big in the metal world, so I get why that appeals to a lot of people; I am just not a big sludge or doom metal guy, so there ya go.
Disagreed. Vol. 4, for me, is easily the worst of the first six albums. Never understood the love that one gets.
While I like Vol. 4, I find it less focused than the rest of the first five albums, and it pales in comparison with the albums that came before and after it (MOR and SBS).
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I have a theory that stuff like Never Say Die! and even Technical Ecstasy was Sabbath trying to be more like Led Zeppelin. Those albums show how diverse they could really be, unfortunately although they're good i prefer darker Sabbath. That's what made them so great. Other albums like the Dio stuff and the Martin era, especially Tyr, showed a different side to them that was still dark and awesome. It's too bad the general public doesn't recognize those albums. Some of the post-Ozzy stuff was like a precursor to power metal.
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The general public most definitely recognizes the Dio era.
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Yeah, Heaven and Hell is by some accounts (not mine, but close) their best album.
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Yeah, Heaven and Hell is by some accounts (not mine, but close) their best album.
By TAC's account it is.
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It's one of my favorites as well.
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Yeah, Heaven and Hell is by some accounts (not mine, but close) their best album.
By TAC's account it is.
:metal
Plus I have always maintained that Dio's absolute vocal peak was Mob Rules. Maybe into Holy diver era as well.
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For Dio's peak, I'm partial to Holy Diver.
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Yeah, Heaven and Hell is by some accounts (not mine, but close) their best album.
By TAC's account it is.
I think it's top 5, but I can't say it's better than the first two, Sabbath Bloody Sabbath or Sabotage.
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Add me to the list of putting Heaven and Hell as all time #1. As much as I love Ozzy era Sabbath, every single album has at least one song that just isn't that good. Everything on H&H is awesome and Dio is a much better singer.
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For Dio's peak, I'm partial to Holy Diver.
I'm willing to give you that. But those two albums back to back are it.
Add me to the list of putting Heaven and Hell as all time #1. As much as I love Ozzy era Sabbath, every single album has at least one song that just isn't that good. Everything on H&H is awesome and Dio is a much better singer.
Though I rate H&H very highly, Walk Away is horrible and Lady Evil negligible.
I think it's top 5, but I can't say it's better than the first two, Sabbath Bloody Sabbath or Sabotage.
Rating these things in hindsight does lead to greater objectivity, but H&H had a huge impact on my musical formative years. Ozzy era, believe it or not, had none.
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Totally understand. I have plenty of albums I rank higher, because they were key in my development as a fan of said band or maybe they were the first album to come out after I got into them, than I might if I simply ranked them all in a vacuum. I get it. :tup :tup
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Back to Master of Reality, even though I think it is easily the least best of the first six, I get why so many love it. It was kind of the start of the whole doom and sludge thing, which became big in the metal world, so I get why that appeals to a lot of people; I am just not a big sludge or doom metal guy, so there ya go.
Disagreed. Vol. 4, for me, is easily the worst of the first six albums. Never understood the love that one gets.
While I like Vol. 4, I find it less focused than the rest of the first five albums, and it pales in comparison with the albums that came before and after it (MOR and SBS).
That's a good way of describing Vol. 4. It does seem a bit... all over the place and not in a good way.
I think it's top 5, but I can't say it's better than the first two, Sabbath Bloody Sabbath or Sabotage.
I would personally put it over the debut and maybe even Sabotage. As much as I love it, Sabotage is all over the place quality wise at times while H&H is just one good song after the next.
Though I rate H&H very highly, Walk Away is horrible and Lady Evil negligible.
I think, compared to some of Sabbath's other questionable songs, these two really aren't that bad to me. Walk Away is not great but Lady Evil is fun.
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I love Lady Evil. I'll agree Walk Away is somewhat forgettable but not bad.
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DUDES! WTF!!! "Walk Away" is a Top Ten Sabbath song for me. Well, maybe Top 15, but it's way up there. I LOVE that song, and it's one of the few later period examples of where Tony didn't feel like he had to be General Riffmaster von Sludgefest. I always preferred the Sabbath where it was more... musical. Spiral Architect, Over To You, Gypsy... I like the heavy stuff, don't get me wrong (Megalomania and Psychophobia are essential listening for any metal guitarist) but I'll take Tomorrow's Dream over some of the heavier stuff.
By the way, there's a riff in the middle of "Lady Evil" that gets played once, and I think it's a quote of something else. I thought for awhile it was ELO "Evil Woman" (there are a lot of ties between ELO and Sabbath: Birmingham, Bev Bevan) but I listened to Evil Woman a couple times and it wasn't there that I could tell. Any thoughts?
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Heaven & Hell is my favorite Sabbath album and top three all time from any band! I just love everything about it and to me there isn't any filler on it. The title track is just epic
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What are everybody's opinion on Seventh Star? It is clearly a Tony Iommi solo album, but i do like some of it. But i think the partnership between Iommi and Hughes worked much better on the DEP sessions and especially on Fused, which i think is just amazing.
I like how Iommi got to record a "final" album with almost every Sabbath singer (Fused, The Devil You Know, 13). I do wish for a new album with Tony Martin but i know that´s almost impossible.
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Fused is indeed a very great album!
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I understand that Tony Martin has indicated that he WILL be working with Tony in 2017, after the completion of The End tour. I for one would love that. I really like Martin, and the Cross Purposes tour was one of my favorite shows ever. Great setlist, Geezer Butler on bass, and even though Martin was under the weather, still strong.
I liked Seventh Star; I don't know if it's "Sabbath" or not; I think "Sabbath" has commercially been "Iommi", though for me, while I count Eternal Idol, Tyr, and Forbidden, Geezer is a big part of that.
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I understand that Tony Martin has indicated that he WILL be working with Tony in 2017, after the completion of The End tour. I for one would love that.
Yeah that would be awesome!
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Love Seventh Star, really good album. Fused is a killer heavy ass record too.
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Hah, I don't even know what Fused is!
I'll believe in the Martin thing when I see it. How many things has he been linked to over the years?
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nAbM18siZSA
Get that into ya Tim!
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Cool. I must've totally ignored that. I must say that having Bob Marlette does not excite me.
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So I haven't been a Sabbath fan, just knew a few songs, but since purchasing a ticket to see them a couple weeks ago, I've been listening and learning the setlist. Pretty good stuff for the most part, awesome guitar work, but have this question
Dirty Women Live video (NSF)
https://youtu.be/smfNUkp7jWc (https://youtu.be/smfNUkp7jWc)
So do girls typically take their tops off for this song like they seem to do in the live video? If so, I am now even more excited to see them :lol
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The dirty ones do.
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The dirty ones do.
We are talking New Jersey here, plenty of dirty girls :biggrin:
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That was from the Reunion tour with Bill Ward, and it was likely not from the States (one of the girls was smoking; they won't stop you showing your cans, but they will make you put the butt out). Let's be honest, though. I think your chances of seeing "boob" (especially young boob) at a Sabbath show in New Jersey is probably only as good as the chances of the girl you going with showing you hers in the car in the parking lot before/after the show.
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I remember checking out Fused a couple of years ago and being so hugely disappointed.
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That was from the Reunion tour with Bill Ward, and it was likely not from the States (one of the girls was smoking; they won't stop you showing your cans, but they will make you put the butt out). Let's be honest, though. I think your chances of seeing "boob" (especially young boob) at a Sabbath show in New Jersey is probably only as good as the chances of the girl you going with showing you hers in the car in the parking lot before/after the show.
Yea, I agree, was just shocked to see any at all and was wondering, "wait, is this a thing?!" :lol
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I remember checking out Fused a couple of years ago and being so hugely disappointed.
Since I think it's a really excellent album, this doesn't surprise me.
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Just saw them in Mansfield, MA.
The bad: predicable set (same 14 songs; Ozzy still screwed up the intro to "Behind The Wall Of Sleep"); Ozzy, same "Show me your fucking hands!"; Geezer didn't stray from the same five-foot circle the entire night, and Tony spent 90% of his time WAAAYYYY over on stage left. Adam Wakeman literally behind a black curtain (though they did introduce him and he poked his head out).
The good: everything fucking else. Ozzy sounded great. I was in the fourth row, center right, and Geezer was right in front of me, and the man is a fucking monster. Didn't even break a sweat, yet he nailed After Forever, Hand of Doom, Bassically... a king. Tony is so frustrating; he makes it look SO FUCKING EASY, it's ridiculous. But not a missed note, and during... Dirty Women I think it was, he extended his solo, and Ozzy just looked at him like "can you fucking believe this?" There was a quick flash where it looked like he was getting exasperated, but I could be wrong; the rest was pure admiration. After easily half the songs, Tony and Ozzy met in front of the drum riser and exchanged laughs. They were CLEARLY having fun and it wasn't just for the money.
I've long said that I dig watching old guys who have been doing this for years play. Cheap Trick, Kiss, Aerosmith... add Sabbath to the list. They were really good. Enough so you know it wasn't piped in, but close enough where you know they can play every note of the songs they wrote.
By the way, Rival Sons blew me out of the water. They are REALLY good. The singer sang every note like his life depended on it, and the guitar player was cool as shit. Plus, I could see the guitar players daughter sitting cross-legged on the side of the stage with her teddy bear watching Dad (I know it was his kid because the guy behind me knew the keyboard player). I'm a dad of a daughter and it was very cute.
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Did you get the CD?
Also, I never did my own mini review of the concert from the other night.
I got there a bit late and was walking towards the amphitheater when I heard the opening chords to Black Sabbath which was actually really cool to hear echo over the parking lot. Anyway, got into the venue in time for the second song. The whole band sounded pretty good. Tommy was pretty much AWESOME. Ozzy sounded pretty well too. Really can't complain about the sound at all which was crystal clear even all the way in the back. I had a blast overall, but the setlist was pretty short. I was home before 10pm which is the earliest for any concert I have gone to in who knows how long (maybe ever?).
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Did you get the CD?
Also, I never did my own mini review of the concert from the other night.
I got there a bit late and was walking towards the amphitheater when I heard the opening chords to Black Sabbath which was actually really cool to hear echo over the parking lot. Anyway, got into the venue in time for the second song. The whole band sounded pretty good. Tommy was pretty much AWESOME. Ozzy sounded pretty well too. Really can't complain about the sound at all which was crystal clear even all the way in the back. I had a blast overall, but the setlist was pretty short. I was home before 10pm which is the earliest for any concert I have gone to in who knows how long (maybe ever?).
Well, you gave me the heads up on that. 8:40 and they took the stage. It helped that Sabbath's setup was exceedingly simple. Drum set, two backlines, and Ozzy. It was about as no-frills (In a good way) as a rock show gets.
I did get the CD. I ran in like a school girl at 6:30 sharp, chugging my beer as I went.
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Great post, Stadler. I was also very impressed by Rival Sons few months ago.
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Did you get the CD?
Also, I never did my own mini review of the concert from the other night.
I got there a bit late and was walking towards the amphitheater when I heard the opening chords to Black Sabbath which was actually really cool to hear echo over the parking lot. Anyway, got into the venue in time for the second song. The whole band sounded pretty good. Tommy was pretty much AWESOME. Ozzy sounded pretty well too. Really can't complain about the sound at all which was crystal clear even all the way in the back. I had a blast overall, but the setlist was pretty short. I was home before 10pm which is the earliest for any concert I have gone to in who knows how long (maybe ever?).
Well, you gave me the heads up on that. 8:40 and they took the stage. It helped that Sabbath's setup was exceedingly simple. Drum set, two backlines, and Ozzy. It was about as no-frills (In a good way) as a rock show gets.
I did get the CD. I ran in like a school girl at 6:30 sharp, chugging my beer as I went.
Yea, a really basic set up and rock gig overall. No issues on my end from that, if the band is good (Black Sabbath was great) then I can't say I need any extras with a stage show, although I'm sure some real fire would always be an added bonus.
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Given their ages, I wouldn't hold it too much against Sabbath if they don't move around too much on stage; the fact that they are out there at all is pretty amazing.
As for Ozzy live, I remember hearing his solo Tribute live album back in the day and finding it weird that he felt the need at the beginning of every song to tell the crowd what song it was. Does he think the crowd is that stupid that they won't know what it is, or is it is just a cheap way of getting a pop from the crowd? Probably the latter, but still kinda weird.
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Ozzy was actually pretty mobile for Paranoid during the encore, walked all over the stage. Otherwise no one really moved from thier spots. Agreed about the age, I can't say I expected a Bruce Dickinson type of performance. As long as the band sounded good, which they did, it's hard to complain about anything else. My only real complaint was the early start time and maybe that is due to old age as well. Van Halen had the same problem last year, starting at 8:30pm, not the traditional 9pm or later for headliners (at least at this venue).
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Just read the last couple of posts after seeing the show last night, and the lack of any production was one of the things we all noticed. I thought at the time that DT is touring with more gear than Sabbath nowadays. Regardless, good show. Nice setlist. Ozzy was weak, but not bad at all. Fake Bill Ward was very good, so his presence was only offensive in principle. I was pleased to see them sell out the venue. It's very rare for metal bands to accomplish that (only Metallica).
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I was pleased to see them sell out the venue. It's very rare for metal bands to accomplish that (only Metallica).
Yea, they didn't sell out here (like 25,000 venue) but it was the most packed I'd seen the venue the entire summer. Really huge crowd which is always fun.
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Fake Bill Ward was very good, so his presence was only offensive in principle.
Hahaha, this is why I look forward to each of your posts. Classic (and exactly right).
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Wish I was at the show tonight. But I'm happy because I got to see them at least.
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Mob Rules is ridiculously underrated. Same goes for Dehumanizer.
I'm also a huge Tyr fan. Classic Sabbath IMO.
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Falling off the Edge of the World and Over and Over are what I would call ridiculously underrated when it comes to that album. And on Dehumanizer Too Late is absolutely great as well.
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Falling off the Edge of the World and Over and Over are what I would call ridiculously underrated when it comes to that album.
I don't know if they're underrated. They are both awesome, and have always thought they were well received.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kvqvglMdXXk
^ Relevant.
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Falling off the Edge of the World and Over and Over are what I would call ridiculously underrated when it comes to that album.
I don't know if they're underrated. They are both awesome, and have always thought they were well received.
Falling off the Edge of the World is one of the best songs of the Dio era.
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Easily. By far. Definitely. No doubt.
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Easily. By far. Definitely. No doubt.
without question
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Falling off the Edge of the World and Over and Over are what I would call ridiculously underrated when it comes to that album.
I don't know if they're underrated. They are both awesome, and have always thought they were well received.
Falling off the Edge of the World is one of the best songs of the Dio era.
Yes.
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Falling off the Edge of the World really is fantastic.
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Falling off the Edge of the World and Over and Over are what I would call ridiculously underrated when it comes to that album.
I don't know if they're underrated. They are both awesome, and have always thought they were well received.
Falling off the Edge of the World is one of the best songs of the Dio era.
Absolutely. It's also probably the best vocal performance Dio gave on any of his songs with Black Sabbath imo- which is saying a lot. By far my favorite era of the band. :hefdaddy
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https://www.blabbermouth.net/news/former-black-sabbath-keyboardist-geoff-nicholls-dies-after-battle-with-lung-cancer/ (https://www.blabbermouth.net/news/former-black-sabbath-keyboardist-geoff-nicholls-dies-after-battle-with-lung-cancer/)
He contributed a lot to Sabbath and its a shame that he didn't get the recognition he deserves for his time with the band.
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https://www.blabbermouth.net/news/former-black-sabbath-keyboardist-geoff-nicholls-dies-after-battle-with-lung-cancer/ (https://www.blabbermouth.net/news/former-black-sabbath-keyboardist-geoff-nicholls-dies-after-battle-with-lung-cancer/)
He contributed a lot to Sabbath and its a shame that he didn't get the recognition he deserves for his time with the band.
Fuck! And John Hurt died as well. 2017 begins badly. RIP Mr Nicholls.
B.Lee
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Noooooo that's very sad news :'(
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Damn.
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Just read that sad news. Definitely never got the recognition he deserved. his work on everything from Heaven and Hell forward was just brilliant. His sound on the Martin albums in particular gave them such a special atmosphere and sound.
RIP Geoff.
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Well said.
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Well said.
:tup
To me, he was so important to the sound of those Martin albums. Wouldn't be as good without him.
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Very few keyboardists could play as well as he could behind a black curtain. :)
Iommi will tell you, he was a big part of Sabbath.
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Just read that sad news. Definitely never got the recognition he deserved. his work on everything from Heaven and Hell forward was just brilliant. His sound on the Martin albums in particular gave them such a special atmosphere and sound.
RIP Geoff.
Perfect.
RIP :(
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Listened to Heaven and Hell today. Die Young was the song that made me a Sabbath fan, and that song just wouldn't be the same without the keyboards.
RIP
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Listened to Heaven and Hell today. Die Young was the song that made me a Sabbath fan, and that song just wouldn't be the same without the keyboards.
Great call!
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Geoff Nichols should have been the bass player on that album, while Geezer was out. He returned, Geoff switched to keyboard, and remain there until on 2004.
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It's officially over now, they did their very last show together last night in Birmingham.
A clip of 'Paranoid'.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BIlPLCc0WnA
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It's officially over now, they did their very last show together last night in Birmingham.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BIlPLCc0WnA
Maybe I'm being a grumpy old bugger, but as far I'm concerned the so-called reunion was no such thing without Bill. To quote Ozzy on the Last Supper DVD. "Black Sabbath is Tony Iommi, Bill Ward, Geezer Butler and Ozzy Osborne". Bill Ward's treatment was nothing short of disgraceful.
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They had a good run. We're forever in their debt.
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" What a sad , sad day "
Um.. They're all pushing 70 and the band has been around for like 50 years.
It's not like anyone died and you can no longer listen to the albums.
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" What a sad , sad day "
Um.. They're all pushing 70 and the band has been around for like 50 years.
It's not like anyone died and you can no longer listen to the albums.
So it can't still be sad that one of the greatest metal bands of all time that pioneered the very genre will never play again? Ok.
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Apparently they haven't even ruled out *NEVER* playing again. Just not a full tour.
Although it is weird they disband 1 year before their 50th.
Wouldn't be shocked if they did one more big show with Bill Ward next year for the actual anniversary.
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Well, I was at the penultimate show on Thursday, and it has to be said it was not great. They're looking tired, and should really call it a day. The setlist was also a bit stale, being almost exclusively from the first 3 albums. They played a short instrumental medley of the riffs from Supernaut, Sabbath Bloody Sabbath and Meglomania, which just reminded you how strong those albums were. And then they went back to playing sh1t like Hand of Doom and Dirty Women. And the 20 minute drum solo was inexcuseable.
The "golden circle" extended half way back the arena floor. A shocking money-grabbing exercise. There were far too many people crammed into the standing area at the back, and once the surge started, fights were breaking out left right and centre.
I'm glad I went to see them, but it really was nothing special.
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" What a sad , sad day "
Um.. They're all pushing 70 and the band has been around for like 50 years.
It's not like anyone died and you can no longer listen to the albums.
Why even post this?
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" What a sad , sad day "
Um.. They're all pushing 70 and the band has been around for like 50 years.
It's not like anyone died and you can no longer listen to the albums.
Why even post this?
Agreed. wtf?
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It's officially over now, they did their very last show together last night in Birmingham.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BIlPLCc0WnA
Maybe I'm being a grumpy old bugger, but as far I'm concerned the so-called reunion was no such thing without Bill. To quote Ozzy on the Last Supper DVD. "Black Sabbath is Tony Iommi, Bill Ward, Geezer Butler and Ozzy Osborne". Bill Ward's treatment was nothing short of disgraceful.
Except that Bill is his own worst enemy. It's not the "treatment of Bill" that's so bad. It's BILL that's so bad. There is literally no such thing as "an unsignable contract". If he wanted to do it, he could have; he was holding out for things that he had never received at any point in his time in the band, and yet now, he wants to play hardball? AND make it public? The funny thing is, everyone jumped to conclusions and blamed "Sharon", but IOMMI was the guy that was most vocal in "this is ridiculous".
I saw "The End" show in Mansfield, MA in August, and Bill could not have drummed that show. He just couldn't have done it.
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I'm not saying " ::) Who cares about Sabbath ?? " or " Boo hoo - people's fave band has quit - Get Over It ".
To me it would have meant more if they'd quit at the top of their game and not when they're all 70 odd years old and just hanging on for the cash.
The band are all still alive. They've hinted at one off shows here and there. Plus the albums still exist. . . And they'll no doubt be an album of unreleased material and live stuff etc etc...
So yeah.
Probably still didn't come out right :lol.
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I'm glad I saw them last year. Fantastic show!
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Personally, I thought Ozzy sounded very good (not GREAT, but very good) and to see the legends - tony and geezer - doing that intro to War Pigs, the way it's supposed to be, and that intro to After Forever... well, it's maybe more an intangible than simply "they're at the top of their game!".
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Personally, I thought Ozzy sounded very good (not GREAT, but very good) and to see the legends - tony and geezer - doing that intro to War Pigs, the way it's supposed to be, and that intro to After Forever... well, it's maybe more an intangible than simply "they're at the top of their game!".
Yea, I thought they sounded overall pretty good. Maybe at the end of the tour they are pretty tired, but over the summer I thought they were way better than when I saw them in 2005.
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It's officially over now, they did their very last show together last night in Birmingham.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BIlPLCc0WnA
Maybe I'm being a grumpy old bugger, but as far I'm concerned the so-called reunion was no such thing without Bill. To quote Ozzy on the Last Supper DVD. "Black Sabbath is Tony Iommi, Bill Ward, Geezer Butler and Ozzy Osborne". Bill Ward's treatment was nothing short of disgraceful.
Except that Bill is his own worst enemy. It's not the "treatment of Bill" that's so bad. It's BILL that's so bad. There is literally no such thing as "an unsignable contract". If he wanted to do it, he could have; he was holding out for things that he had never received at any point in his time in the band, and yet now, he wants to play hardball? AND make it public? The funny thing is, everyone jumped to conclusions and blamed "Sharon", but IOMMI was the guy that was most vocal in "this is ridiculous".
I saw "The End" show in Mansfield, MA in August, and Bill could not have drummed that show. He just couldn't have done it.
I thought Fake Bill Ward did a great job, but it wasn't the same at all. And I'm not sure if Bill would have been able to do the tour or not, but it seems they could have looked into that before assuming he couldn't. He says he could have, and he's on youtube playing drums last year looking just fine.
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I was lucky enough to see them on the 13 and The End tour. While I liked the set they did for the 13 tour more, their performance when I saw them on The End tour was much better. The band sounded great and Ozzy only missed one note that was really noticeable. Also it will forever be sentimental for me as it was the last show I was able to attend with my dad.
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Just saw a snippet on news quoting Tony Iommi about how he / they are not ruling out anything, that he's just sick of touring and does not want to do anymore long tours but they're all open to something.
So, once again, confirmation that you should never ever believe a rock band when they have a "final" gig :D
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It's officially over now, they did their very last show together last night in Birmingham.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BIlPLCc0WnA
Maybe I'm being a grumpy old bugger, but as far I'm concerned the so-called reunion was no such thing without Bill. To quote Ozzy on the Last Supper DVD. "Black Sabbath is Tony Iommi, Bill Ward, Geezer Butler and Ozzy Osborne". Bill Ward's treatment was nothing short of disgraceful.
Except that Bill is his own worst enemy. It's not the "treatment of Bill" that's so bad. It's BILL that's so bad. There is literally no such thing as "an unsignable contract". If he wanted to do it, he could have; he was holding out for things that he had never received at any point in his time in the band, and yet now, he wants to play hardball? AND make it public? The funny thing is, everyone jumped to conclusions and blamed "Sharon", but IOMMI was the guy that was most vocal in "this is ridiculous".
I saw "The End" show in Mansfield, MA in August, and Bill could not have drummed that show. He just couldn't have done it.
I thought Fake Bill Ward did a great job, but it wasn't the same at all. And I'm not sure if Bill would have been able to do the tour or not, but it seems they could have looked into that before assuming he couldn't. He says he could have, and he's on youtube playing drums last year looking just fine.
Remember too that if I'm not mistaken, they've had tours booked with him TWICE now (I know at least once) that had to be scuttled because he COULDN'T do it. Look, I love Bill. Anyone who's seen the video of them back in "Paris" (It's called "Live In Paris", but I think it was recorded in Brussels) knows he's a monster when he's on. He was every bit a part of the Sabbath sound as anyone else (and in my opinion, no one has captured that sound 100% since) but I was okay watching what I saw last August. To me, seeing Geezer and Tony together is like 80% of it.
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Think I read something a while ago that Iomi said he'd wished they could have been nicer to Bill, 'but I don't know what the fuck happened'. Yeah, maybe some day....
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To me, seeing Geezer and Tony together is like 80% of it.
That's pretty much how I feel. Having seen Heaven and Hell :metal back when they toured Australia in 2007, I'll die happy. The fact that I'll never get to see the original Black Sabbath disappoints me, but I was never going to shell out my hard earned cash to see Ozzy, Tony, Geezer and some other bloke.
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To me, seeing Geezer and Tony together is like 80% of it.
That's pretty much how I feel. Having seen Heaven and Hell :metal back when they toured Australia in 2007, I'll die happy. The fact that I'll never get to see the original Black Sabbath disappoints me, but I was never going to shell out my hard earned cash to see Ozzy, Tony, Geezer and some other bloke.
I respectfully say, "your loss". Watching the three of them having fun and playing classics (if you're a Dead fan, you can certainly criticize the setlist, but for what it was, it was SOLID) was a really entertaining moment. I've seen Ozzy solo (once) and Sabbath with Tony twice, and having seen the show this past August, I feel like I can rest easy knowing I've "seen Sabbath the way it's supposed to be".
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Band's Twitter said the final copies of The End EP that was sold at show's are being sold through eBay now. I picked up a copy, but fuck, was that expensive (over $30). Part of it goes to St. Jude's for charity, though.
Just a heads up, if anyone wanted a copy before it disappears forever.
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It's officially over now, they did their very last show together last night in Birmingham.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BIlPLCc0WnA
Maybe I'm being a grumpy old bugger, but as far I'm concerned the so-called reunion was no such thing without Bill. To quote Ozzy on the Last Supper DVD. "Black Sabbath is Tony Iommi, Bill Ward, Geezer Butler and Ozzy Osborne". Bill Ward's treatment was nothing short of disgraceful.
Except that Bill is his own worst enemy. It's not the "treatment of Bill" that's so bad. It's BILL that's so bad. There is literally no such thing as "an unsignable contract". If he wanted to do it, he could have; he was holding out for things that he had never received at any point in his time in the band, and yet now, he wants to play hardball? AND make it public? The funny thing is, everyone jumped to conclusions and blamed "Sharon", but IOMMI was the guy that was most vocal in "this is ridiculous".
I saw "The End" show in Mansfield, MA in August, and Bill could not have drummed that show. He just couldn't have done it.
I thought Fake Bill Ward did a great job, but it wasn't the same at all. And I'm not sure if Bill would have been able to do the tour or not, but it seems they could have looked into that before assuming he couldn't. He says he could have, and he's on youtube playing drums last year looking just fine.
Remember too that if I'm not mistaken, they've had tours booked with him TWICE now (I know at least once) that had to be scuttled because he COULDN'T do it. Look, I love Bill. Anyone who's seen the video of them back in "Paris" (It's called "Live In Paris", but I think it was recorded in Brussels) knows he's a monster when he's on. He was every bit a part of the Sabbath sound as anyone else (and in my opinion, no one has captured that sound 100% since) but I was okay watching what I saw last August. To me, seeing Geezer and Tony together is like 80% of it.
There's a DVD from the Never Say Die tour where Ward steels the show. Totally fucked up, big giant caveman beard, monster drum kit, everything you want to see. You should check it out.
Like I said, I was alright with Fake Bill Ward. I thought he did a great job. It's just that I saw the real deal way back when and recall him really kicking my ass. I never saw the fake one make me think "holy shit, check that dude out!" It's like Pino Paladino vs The Ox, or Trujillo vs Newstead. The originals brought something else to the table besides what they played.
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It's officially over now, they did their very last show together last night in Birmingham.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BIlPLCc0WnA
Maybe I'm being a grumpy old bugger, but as far I'm concerned the so-called reunion was no such thing without Bill. To quote Ozzy on the Last Supper DVD. "Black Sabbath is Tony Iommi, Bill Ward, Geezer Butler and Ozzy Osborne". Bill Ward's treatment was nothing short of disgraceful.
Except that Bill is his own worst enemy. It's not the "treatment of Bill" that's so bad. It's BILL that's so bad. There is literally no such thing as "an unsignable contract". If he wanted to do it, he could have; he was holding out for things that he had never received at any point in his time in the band, and yet now, he wants to play hardball? AND make it public? The funny thing is, everyone jumped to conclusions and blamed "Sharon", but IOMMI was the guy that was most vocal in "this is ridiculous".
I saw "The End" show in Mansfield, MA in August, and Bill could not have drummed that show. He just couldn't have done it.
I thought Fake Bill Ward did a great job, but it wasn't the same at all. And I'm not sure if Bill would have been able to do the tour or not, but it seems they could have looked into that before assuming he couldn't. He says he could have, and he's on youtube playing drums last year looking just fine.
Remember too that if I'm not mistaken, they've had tours booked with him TWICE now (I know at least once) that had to be scuttled because he COULDN'T do it. Look, I love Bill. Anyone who's seen the video of them back in "Paris" (It's called "Live In Paris", but I think it was recorded in Brussels) knows he's a monster when he's on. He was every bit a part of the Sabbath sound as anyone else (and in my opinion, no one has captured that sound 100% since) but I was okay watching what I saw last August. To me, seeing Geezer and Tony together is like 80% of it.
There's a DVD from the Never Say Die tour where Ward steels the show. Totally fucked up, big giant caveman beard, monster drum kit, everything you want to see. You should check it out.
Like I said, I was alright with Fake Bill Ward. I thought he did a great job. It's just that I saw the real deal way back when and recall him really kicking my ass. I never saw the fake one make me think "holy shit, check that dude out!" It's like Pino Paladino vs The Ox, or Trujillo vs Newstead. The originals brought something else to the table besides what they played.
I don't disagree with any of that, I just don't think NOT having the original drops it down to "no go". I saw the Quadrophenia tour back in the late '90's, with Zak Starkey and Pino, and just watching Roger and Pete interact was enough for me. I get that it wasn't like seeing Isle of Wight in '69, but it was still The Who, and it kicked ass.
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I think any Sabbath with Ozzy and Iommi would be enoug for me to go. The Who, the same thing I guess. Just hearing those songs live while these guys are still alive, I'd see them.
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This looks awesome: Black Sabbath "The End of The End" 60 Sec Trailer (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lXLzMEpGP7M)
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I was able to get a boot of the show I saw - Mansfield, MA - and both of the Birmingham shows. They really sounded good. Ozzy was flat at times, but not distractingly so (and at least he was singing, right?) and the band was on fire. They went out on a good note, pun intended. :)
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Yea I kind of thought Ozzy wouldn't be the greatest live anymore, but to my surprise, he sounded really well at the NJ show and of course the band sounded fantastic.
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"I" may be the greatest metal song ever conceived. :metal :metal
I'm just sayin'
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It's not even my favorite on its own album but yes, it's quite great. Heard it live and it rocked :metal
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Forgive me if I asked this a long time ago and forgot. It *might* not even be a Black Sabbath song, but it definitely involved Ronnie James Dio.
I have a very distant memory of a live song where Dio goes off on some rant about being invited in a vision to follow a sheep, but in the end he tells the sheep to go away, because he's going straight to hell.
The guy who showed it to me on a cassette said that it was from a live performance where this almost spoken word portion of the song had been extended and embellished from the original version. Do any of you hard core Dio or Sabbath fans have any idea what I'm talking about?
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It's not a sheep, but a "shape". This was during live versions of Heaven and Hell.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o3i-2nYatmU
Section starts at 7:40
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Are you sure? He was attacked and almost died at the hands of a garden gnome.
https://www.blabbermouth.net/news/ronnie-james-dio-talks-about-being-attacked-by-killer-garden-gnome/
(Which, by the way, was up for auction, and I almost - ALMOST - bought it).
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@ Stadler :rollin
@ TAC Thanks....that's definitely the rant. The version I heard was when I was at job corps in 1986, so I'm sure it was an older recording. (does he do this on Live Evil maybe?) but it might have been a bootleg. Seemed like the one I heard was a longer rant, but that is most definitely the gist of it.
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Yes, it's on Live Evil, right after the Southern Cross part of H&H. He has always done it. It may have been how the song was originally written, but I don't know for sure.
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Listening to Born Again after long time and...i really like it this time. The actual recordig is terrible, but the songs are mostly cool.
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Random thought of the evening....
Was Psycho Man the final recording of the original lineup?
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Listening to Born Again after long time and...i really like it this time. The actual recordig is terrible, but the songs are mostly cool.
Listen to the remixed version, it’s really immensely better:
https://open.spotify.com/album/3rdD2LHEFi6FxrhlBA3Dot?si=nJrC-s_ER2aDbdq81Zjuyg
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Listening to Born Again after long time and...i really like it this time. The actual recordig is terrible, but the songs are mostly cool.
Listen to the remixed version, it’s really immensely better:
https://open.spotify.com/album/3rdD2LHEFi6FxrhlBA3Dot?si=nJrC-s_ER2aDbdq81Zjuyg
I'll need to check this out. I wonder if I can get a version other than Spotify.
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Random thought of the evening....
Was Psycho Man the final recording of the original lineup?
As far as we can tell... there are rumors that there are some tracks that were recorded in 2001 with Rick Rubin. I don't know if these songs were reused for 13 or not, but it was rumored that they had Ward in, not Bordin (who played the tours around then) or Welk (who played on '13').
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https://youtu.be/pU7mJvGmLQo?t=991
They played a new song in 2001 that was never released and seems to be forgotten. It also seems (to me anyway) to be incomplete and uninspired.
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Been on a Sabbath binge. Interestingly enough, it seems the Tony Martin era of the band is finally clicking for me! Interestingly, Headless Cross and Tyr both feel like a natural conclusion of the musical shift from Heaven & Hell. Possibly more so than The Mob Rules was, despite my personal affection for that album. Maybe Geoff Nichols was more involved in the songwriting on those two albums?
Also damn, Martin's pipes on those two albums! In general, that might have been the most technically proficient era of the band. It doesn't quite feel like Sabbath proper to me without Geezer, but the bass work on Headless Cross is especially nice. And of course, Cozy Powell giving a killer performance as always on the drums!
Wish these albums were available on iTunes. I'd buy 'em in a heartbeat.
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Been on a Sabbath binge. Interestingly enough, it seems the Tony Martin era of the band is finally clicking for me! Interestingly, Headless Cross and Tyr both feel like a natural conclusion of the musical shift from Heaven & Hell. Possibly more so than The Mob Rules was, despite my personal affection for that album. Maybe Geoff Nichols was more involved in the songwriting on those two albums?
Also damn, Martin's pipes on those two albums! In general, that might have been the most technically proficient era of the band. It doesn't quite feel like Sabbath proper to me without Geezer, but the bass work on Headless Cross is especially nice. And of course, Cozy Powell giving a killer performance as always on the drums!
Wish these albums were available on iTunes. I'd buy 'em in a heartbeat.
SUPPOSEDLY, Iommi is preparing that last phase ("Headless..." through "Forbidden") for re-release in deluxe versions. I'll be all over that. I saw the Cross Purposes tour and the Forbidden tour (almost exactly one year apart, same venue, same opening act (Motorhead)). CP had Geezer and Bobby Rondinelli, and the F tour had Neil Murray and Cozy Powell. The first show blew away the second one. It was at that point that I decided there was no Sabbath, truly, without Geezer. He adds SO much to the sound that it's noticeable when he's not there.
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Been on a Sabbath binge. Interestingly enough, it seems the Tony Martin era of the band is finally clicking for me! Interestingly, Headless Cross and Tyr both feel like a natural conclusion of the musical shift from Heaven & Hell. Possibly more so than The Mob Rules was, despite my personal affection for that album. Maybe Geoff Nichols was more involved in the songwriting on those two albums?
Also damn, Martin's pipes on those two albums! In general, that might have been the most technically proficient era of the band. It doesn't quite feel like Sabbath proper to me without Geezer, but the bass work on Headless Cross is especially nice. And of course, Cozy Powell giving a killer performance as always on the drums!
Wish these albums were available on iTunes. I'd buy 'em in a heartbeat.
SUPPOSEDLY, Iommi is preparing that last phase ("Headless..." through "Forbidden") for re-release in deluxe versions. I'll be all over that. I saw the Cross Purposes tour and the Forbidden tour (almost exactly one year apart, same venue, same opening act (Motorhead)). CP had Geezer and Bobby Rondinelli, and the F tour had Neil Murray and Cozy Powell. The first show blew away the second one. It was at that point that I decided there was no Sabbath, truly, without Geezer. He adds SO much to the sound that it's noticeable when he's not there.
That'd be nice! Hopefully they'll also re-release the albums digitally too.
And yeah, I have to agree. Geezer might not necessarily be the most accomplished bassist ever, but he's got a vibe and style that feels just as integral to Black Sabbath as Tony's guitar work. You can switch the singer or the drummer around, but it just doesn't feel quite like Sabbath without Geezer to compliment Tony's guitarwork.
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Geezer Butler is pretty accomplished! :D
I might be all over some remasters. Except Forbidden. :lol
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Geezer Butler is pretty accomplished! :D
I might be all over some remasters. Except Forbidden. :lol
:D Heh, yeah, he absolutely is. I meant to write 'most technical bassist,' but clearly I had a misstep along the way. :lol
I'd definitely pick up Headless Cross and Tyr. I need to get a bit more used to Crossed Purposes before deciding whether I'd get it or not. Though if Tony were to release it in a deluxe edition with a CD version of one of the several live shows from the CP tour with Geezer as a bonus disk, I'd probably buy it in a heartbeat. I watched the CP lineup play Symptom of the Universe live on YouTube earlier and damn would that be nice to have to listen to at leisure.
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Cross Purposes is my favorite of the bunch.
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I'm a Tyr man, myself. Cozy Powell and Neil Murray, while not Geezer and Ward, were great, and Tony Martin had settled in nicely. Really, I think they're all great albums right up to the surprisingly dreadful Forbidden.
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I'm a Tyr man, myself. Cozy Powell and Neil Murray, while not Geezer and Ward, were great, and Tony Martin had settled in nicely. Really, I think they're all great albums right up to the surprisingly dreadful Forbidden.
Yeah, the bass work isn't bad at all on Tyr. It just feels a bit 'off' for a Sabbath album to not hear Geezer on there alongside Tony, though it's by no means bad.
I was just watching a bootleg from the Tyr tour and that lineup was tight live. Tony Martin was at the top of his game and the rest of the group had a solid chemistry together. Cozy was especially great on the drums, as expected.
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And now, for that moment when a random dude praises a random obscure song: Crown of Thorns is a kickass song from Cross Purpouses :metal
I'd talk about a "deep cut", but come on, basically the entire Tony Martin era is a deep cut.
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Geezer Butler is pretty accomplished! :D
I might be all over some remasters. Except Forbidden. :lol
:D Heh, yeah, he absolutely is. I meant to write 'most technical bassist,' but clearly I had a misstep along the way. :lol
I'd definitely pick up Headless Cross and Tyr. I need to get a bit more used to Crossed Purposes before deciding whether I'd get it or not. Though if Tony were to release it in a deluxe edition with a CD version of one of the several live shows from the CP tour with Geezer as a bonus disk, I'd probably buy it in a heartbeat. I watched the CP lineup play Symptom of the Universe live on YouTube earlier and damn would that be nice to have to listen to at leisure.
Well, there was a CD/VHS release not long after the Cross Purposes album called "Cross Purposes Live" and it's pretty damn good. I would hope that the deluxe version would have the Japanese-only track "What's The Use?" and the full VHS set list of the CP-Live set (the CD cuts three songs for space).
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I'm still pissed at myself for skipping those shows.
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For me, in the Martin era:
Cross Purposes
Tyr
Forbidden
The Eternal Idol
Headless Cross
I actually love a couple tunes on Forbidden; "Can't Get Close Enough" and "Rusty Angels" I think are excellent. You can have "The Illusion of Power"; that's an embarrassment.
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I'm a Tyr man, myself. Cozy Powell and Neil Murray, while not Geezer and Ward, were great, and Tony Martin had settled in nicely. Really, I think they're all great albums right up to the surprisingly dreadful Forbidden.
Yep Tyr for me too. I never managed to get into anything much on Cross Purposes.
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A lot of you know my thoughts on this era already. My fav Sabbath era. TYR for me too, closely followed by Headless Cross.
Eternal Idol seem to be the forgotten one out of all those records. Forbidden is more remembered for the wrong reasons. Born to Lose, The Shining, Ancient Warrior, Glory Ride, lots to like on that record.
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A lot of you know my thoughts on this era already. My fav Sabbath era. TYR for me too, closely followed by Headless Cross.
Eternal Idol seem to be the forgotten one out of all those records. Forbidden is more remembered for the wrong reasons. Born to Lose, The Shining, Ancient Warrior, Glory Ride, lots to like on that record.
I'm starting to see why! TYR and Headless Cross both have some ridiculously tight songwriting and musicianship. The Martin era definitely feels like the proggiest era of the band too, which I really like.
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The Dio era of Sabbath is my favorite easily by miles and miles, but the Martin era is definitely underrated and great. Headless Cross and Eternal Idol are the best of the five Martin albums IMO; Forbidden would be easily be fifth place. With Forbidden , there are a handful of great songs but the rapping on the opening track is just something I'm not into.
I know Tony has had health issue, but I'm curious to see what these deluxe editions of Headless Cross, Tyr, Cross Purposes and Forbidden will actually contain, if they happen. I would say that Moscow performance from 1989 was the peak of the Marin era, so that should be included if possible. Would also be cool if Tony and Tony could get together for a new track or two.
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The Dio era of Sabbath is my favorite easily by miles and miles, but the Martin era is definitely underrated and great. Headless Cross and Eternal Idol are the best of the five Martin albums IMO; Forbidden would be easily be fifth place. With Forbidden , there are a handful of great songs but the rapping on the opening track is just something I'm not into.
I know Tony has had health issue, but I'm curious to see what these deluxe editions of Headless Cross, Tyr, Cross Purposes and Forbidden will actually contain, if they happen. I would say that Moscow performance from 1989 was the peak of the Marin era, so that should be included if possible. Would also be cool if Tony and Tony could get together for a new track or two.
I've got that on DVD, great show. I've also got Cross Purposes live on DVD but it only contains half the songs. Tony was sick on that tour but I also had an old copy on VHS which had the whole set and I loved it. I really would like the full set released on DVD. Including those shows on these reissues would awesome.
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The Dio era of Sabbath is my favorite easily by miles and miles, but the Martin era is definitely underrated and great. Headless Cross and Eternal Idol are the best of the five Martin albums IMO; Forbidden would be easily be fifth place. With Forbidden , there are a handful of great songs but the rapping on the opening track is just something I'm not into.
I know Tony has had health issue, but I'm curious to see what these deluxe editions of Headless Cross, Tyr, Cross Purposes and Forbidden will actually contain, if they happen. I would say that Moscow performance from 1989 was the peak of the Marin era, so that should be included if possible. Would also be cool if Tony and Tony could get together for a new track or two.
I know I'm just splitting hairs here, but I'd argue the Martin era's peak in live shows might actually be the Tyr tour one year later in 1990. It's hard to say for sure, since there's no professional level recordings of that period as far as I know, but the couple of bootlegs I've heard were pretty terrific performances. Either way, that live lineup would have been one hell of a show to see in person in 1989/1990. Tony Martin in his prime, Iommi working with a solid lineup and Cozy Powell on drums? Divine stuff right there.
That said, I think the Cross Purposes tour probably had the best setlist. I never understood why the band never brought out songs like Sabbath Bloody Sabbath or Symptom of the Universe in the Dio era or waited so long to play those tracks with Tony Martin. The vocal melodies on those songs (especially SBS) seem far better suited to Dio or Martin than Ozzy and could have made for dynamite performances live.
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That said, I think the Cross Purposes tour probably had the best setlist. I never understood why the band never brought out songs like Sabbath Bloody Sabbath or Symptom of the Universe in the Dio era or waited so long to play those tracks with Tony Martin. The vocal melodies on those songs (especially SBS) seem far better suited to Dio or Martin than Ozzy and could have made for dynamite performances live.
Strangely, the Sabbath singer that could sing every one of the songs best is the one that nobody remembers. Ray Gillen sang Ozzy's stuff, Dio's stuff, and even Gillan's and Hughes's stuff perfectly. None of them, despite being better singers, could ever really capture what Ozzy did, except Ray. The Montreal show (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GH3prrkO_L8) really covered all the ground and he nailed every bit of it.
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All of Ray's history with Sabbath was weird as hell, and he came just at the wrong time.
Sabbath was basically - and unofficially - done, Tony Iommi wanted to do a solo album and so he got Glenn Hughes, but he was forced to call it a Sabbath album and Glenn - in a not so excellent moment of his life - wasn't up for that.
He had to fire Glenn Huges in the middle of a tour, he hired Ray Gillen who just happened to pass by basically, ended the tour with him, and then the Eternal Idol album got stuck in the musical equivalent of development hell, with a lot of band members coming and going, to the point that Ray got fed up and left as well.
Definitively being in the right place, but at the wrong time.
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That said, I think the Cross Purposes tour probably had the best setlist. I never understood why the band never brought out songs like Sabbath Bloody Sabbath or Symptom of the Universe in the Dio era or waited so long to play those tracks with Tony Martin. The vocal melodies on those songs (especially SBS) seem far better suited to Dio or Martin than Ozzy and could have made for dynamite performances live.
Strangely, the Sabbath singer that could sing every one of the songs best is the one that nobody remembers. Ray Gillen sang Ozzy's stuff, Dio's stuff, and even Gillan's and Hughes's stuff perfectly. None of them, despite being better singers, could ever really capture what Ozzy did, except Ray. The Montreal show (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GH3prrkO_L8) really covered all the ground and he nailed every bit of it.
I'm trying to figure out why that video refers to Montreal when it was actually recorded in London (England, not London, Ontario, Canada).
That aside, Gillen's pitch control was ridiculous! I listened to about 30 minutes and don't think I heard a single note out of tune or that even sounded strained. Very impressive.
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That said, I think the Cross Purposes tour probably had the best setlist. I never understood why the band never brought out songs like Sabbath Bloody Sabbath or Symptom of the Universe in the Dio era or waited so long to play those tracks with Tony Martin. The vocal melodies on those songs (especially SBS) seem far better suited to Dio or Martin than Ozzy and could have made for dynamite performances live.
Strangely, the Sabbath singer that could sing every one of the songs best is the one that nobody remembers. Ray Gillen sang Ozzy's stuff, Dio's stuff, and even Gillan's and Hughes's stuff perfectly. None of them, despite being better singers, could ever really capture what Ozzy did, except Ray. The Montreal show (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GH3prrkO_L8) really covered all the ground and he nailed every bit of it.
Oh for sure. Ray Gillen is actually the reason I ever started to slowly branch out and check out the non-Dio/Ozzy/Ian Gillan Sabbath material after I heard a bootleg of his take on Heaven & Hell years back. On a technical level, I think it's fair to say Ray was probably the best singer the band ever had. It's a shame he didn't stick around long.
That said, I'd say that Ian Gillan typically did a great job with Ozzy-era songs live, even if I'm not too fond of his takes on Neon Knights or Heaven & Hell. Gillan had a similar nasal-y quality to his voice, but with far more range to make theatrical changes that helped add to the song. Gillan's take on "Black Sabbath," for instance, is almost certainly my favorite of the whole lot.
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The Dio era of Sabbath is my favorite easily by miles and miles, but the Martin era is definitely underrated and great. Headless Cross and Eternal Idol are the best of the five Martin albums IMO; Forbidden would be easily be fifth place. With Forbidden , there are a handful of great songs but the rapping on the opening track is just something I'm not into.
I know Tony has had health issue, but I'm curious to see what these deluxe editions of Headless Cross, Tyr, Cross Purposes and Forbidden will actually contain, if they happen. I would say that Moscow performance from 1989 was the peak of the Marin era, so that should be included if possible. Would also be cool if Tony and Tony could get together for a new track or two.
I know I'm just splitting hairs here, but I'd argue the Martin era's peak in live shows might actually be the Tyr tour one year later in 1990. It's hard to say for sure, since there's no professional level recordings of that period as far as I know, but the couple of bootlegs I've heard were pretty terrific performances. Either way, that live lineup would have been one hell of a show to see in person in 1989/1990. Tony Martin in his prime, Iommi working with a solid lineup and Cozy Powell on drums? Divine stuff right there.
That said, I think the Cross Purposes tour probably had the best setlist. I never understood why the band never brought out songs like Sabbath Bloody Sabbath or Symptom of the Universe in the Dio era or waited so long to play those tracks with Tony Martin. The vocal melodies on those songs (especially SBS) seem far better suited to Dio or Martin than Ozzy and could have made for dynamite performances live.
I've never heard anything from the TYR tour. Will definitely have to try and track something down.
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The Dio era of Sabbath is my favorite easily by miles and miles, but the Martin era is definitely underrated and great. Headless Cross and Eternal Idol are the best of the five Martin albums IMO; Forbidden would be easily be fifth place. With Forbidden , there are a handful of great songs but the rapping on the opening track is just something I'm not into.
I know Tony has had health issue, but I'm curious to see what these deluxe editions of Headless Cross, Tyr, Cross Purposes and Forbidden will actually contain, if they happen. I would say that Moscow performance from 1989 was the peak of the Marin era, so that should be included if possible. Would also be cool if Tony and Tony could get together for a new track or two.
I know I'm just splitting hairs here, but I'd argue the Martin era's peak in live shows might actually be the Tyr tour one year later in 1990. It's hard to say for sure, since there's no professional level recordings of that period as far as I know, but the couple of bootlegs I've heard were pretty terrific performances. Either way, that live lineup would have been one hell of a show to see in person in 1989/1990. Tony Martin in his prime, Iommi working with a solid lineup and Cozy Powell on drums? Divine stuff right there.
That said, I think the Cross Purposes tour probably had the best setlist. I never understood why the band never brought out songs like Sabbath Bloody Sabbath or Symptom of the Universe in the Dio era or waited so long to play those tracks with Tony Martin. The vocal melodies on those songs (especially SBS) seem far better suited to Dio or Martin than Ozzy and could have made for dynamite performances live.
I've never heard anything from the TYR tour. Will definitely have to try and track something down.
Here's the bootlegs that I've been listening to from that tour!
Wolverhampton 1990: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ep8E7o77TEM
Hammersmith 1990: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q239HhcsTIM
Amsterdam 1990 (with video): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dLqF4ROxJIc
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Watched quite a few songs from that Amsterdam one. Jeez, I didn't know Tony ever had those pipes live at any time with the band. He's ripping it up. Still a few melody variatikns to avoid the highs but a lot of mrlodies replicating originals. The Dio stuff sounded great and, Sabbath Stones and Headless Cross especially were amazing.
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Watched quite a few songs from that Amsterdam one. Jeez, I didn't know Tony ever had those pipes live at any time with the band. He's ripping it up. Still a few melody variatikns to avoid the highs but a lot of mrlodies replicating originals. The Dio stuff sounded great and, Sabbath Stones and Headless Cross especially were amazing.
Yep! It's a little hard to go from Tony Martin 1990 nailing it live like that to the improved setlists of 1994 with a sadly noticeable step down in live performance from Tony. Obviously he doesn't sound horrible in 1994, but it'd be amazing to hear 1990!Tony singing SBS and Symptom of the Universe right alongside those epic Dio era performances and Sabbath Stones and Headless Cross.
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I get it, he's a singer and should take care of himself, but I know for the two shows I saw, it was February in the north east, and they weren't exactly playing cozy arenas (the place I saw them in, The Sting in New Britain, I think shared a bar with a strip club). For one of the shows, I went with a friend and we got a foot of snow that night and his car was towed (snow ban!). So in the typical "Murphy's Law Sabbath Way", I think Martin was under the gun from the get go. He struggled a bit both shows, but he was visibly sick in the second show.
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I get it, he's a singer and should take care of himself, but I know for the two shows I saw, it was February in the north east, and they weren't exactly playing cozy arenas (the place I saw them in, The Sting in New Britain, I think shared a bar with a strip club). For one of the shows, I went with a friend and we got a foot of snow that night and his car was towed (snow ban!). So in the typical "Murphy's Law Sabbath Way", I think Martin was under the gun from the get go. He struggled a bit both shows, but he was visibly sick in the second show.
Yeah, I'm not blaming Tony or anything! He had a rough time during the 1994 tour from what I've heard. It's more that I just wish we could hear him singing certain Sabbath classics when he was at his peak. Nothing against him or the rest of the band.
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Amsterdam 1990 (with video): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dLqF4ROxJIc
I just watched this concert. :omg: :hat :2metal:
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I read he was sick for the majority of that 94 tour.
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Hasn't Tony Martin pretty much done jack shit since his stint in Sabbath ended? Why is that?
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Hasn't Tony Martin pretty much done jack shit since his stint in Sabbath ended? Why is that?
Did a solo album in 2005 which was rubbish. He also sang with Aldo Giuntini. I have one of those albums, number 3 I think which is pretty damn good actually. He also did the Cage albums with Dario Mollo. Again I have one album which wasn't bad also.
The Rondinelli album was quite good too. I think Brent brought my attention to that one.
The song he did with Magnus was great too and he does 2 songs on the upcoming one.
Dunno why he hasn't been more prolific than he has post Sabbath though.
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Amsterdam 1990 (with video): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dLqF4ROxJIc
I just watched this concert. :omg: :hat :2metal:
It's so great! Love when part of the roof collapses behind the band near the end of the show. Very visibly one heck of a show! :metal :metal :metal
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One of the suggestions of YT for that Amsterdam concert is this performance of Headless Cross by Tony in 2014, excellent sound and good performance from him:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rbVToMjGu5o
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One of the suggestions of YT for that Amsterdam concert is this performance of Headless Cross by Tony in 2014, excellent sound and good performance from him:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rbVToMjGu5o
Yeah, Tony's tone is perfect here, though it's clear he can't hit the insane high notes anymore and seems to play it a bit safe how long he holds a lot of notes. Still, he's making great use of what he's still got here and sounds great.
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Agree, he sounds really good on that one!
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He had put together a band called Headless Cross that did some shows in England with Geoff Nichols in the band along with Tony's son on guitar. They played tiny clubs. He even tried to put together a US tour that was canceled about 3 weeks after it was announced.
He can still do the high notes in the studio, except not with as much power.
Iommi and him have talked about getting together and doing a side project. Wish it would happen.
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Hasn't Tony Martin pretty much done jack shit since his stint in Sabbath ended? Why is that?
Did a solo album in 2005 which was rubbish. He also sang with Aldo Giuntini. I have one of those albums, number 3 I think which is pretty damn good actually. He also did the Cage albums with Dario Mollo. Again I have one album which wasn't bad also.
The Rondinelli album was quite good too. I think Brent brought my attention to that one.
The song he did with Magnus was great too and he does 2 songs on the upcoming one.
Dunno why he hasn't been more prolific than he has post Sabbath though.
Yeah, he does a lot of guest spots and I have sought out most of those tracks. The first song I ever heard Tony on was the track he did on the second Star One record in 2010. Loved his vocals on that. The majority of the output has been with Giuntini and Mollo. Mollo also produced all 3 Giuntini albums that Tony sang on.
These are all of the albums that I have that Tony handles all lead vocals on:
Giuntini (sometimes also called Giuntini Project, have seen it both ways)
Giuntini Project II (1999)
Giuntini Project III (2006)
Giuntini Project IV (2013) - https://youtu.be/yB1IXjDDwCQ
Dario Mollo / Tony Martin
The Cage (1999)
The Cage 2 (2002)
The Third Cage (2012) - https://youtu.be/4y83C_DX81E
Silver Horses
Silver Horses (2012)
Silver Horses is a 70's kind of rock with a heavy Zeppelin vibe.
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He had put together a band called Headless Cross that did some shows in England with Geoff Nichols in the band along with Tony's son on guitar. They played tiny clubs. He even tried to put together a US tour that was canceled about 3 weeks after it was announced.
He can still do the high notes in the studio, except not with as much power.
Iommi and him have talked about getting together and doing a side project. Wish it would happen.
I really wished the 'black' project with Andy LaRocque and Magnus Rosen eventuated. That would have been special.
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Oh man. I forgot all about that. Yeah, that would have been great.
After listening to the Amsterdam bootleg and hearing how great Tony Martin sounded, I realize he was blessed with a great voice and amazing range but I doubt he was ever trained properly. From the Cross Purposes tour onward, he could never hit the high notes again. Aging has something to do with it but I also wouldn't doubt if he prematurely screwed up his voice.
I'm still a fan though.
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Oh man. I forgot all about that. Yeah, that would have been great.
After listening to the Amsterdam bootleg and hearing how great Tony Martin sounded, I realize he was blessed with a great voice and amazing range but I doubt he was ever trained properly. From the Cross Purposes tour onward, he could never hit the high notes again. Aging has something to do with it but I also wouldn't doubt if he prematurely screwed up his voice.
I'm still a fan though.
Yeah, it's hard to tell what exactly happened. Hell, for all we know, Tony might have had a similar run in with food poisoning or something of that ilk in his time out of Sabbath during the Dehumanizer era like James LaBrie did after Awake and never quite recovered from it.
Speaking of Dehumanizer... god, I love that album. The OG Martin era was terrific and listening to Tyr makes me wonder where the band might've gone had the reunion not happened, but Dehumanizer might be my favorite of the Dio era. The band's never been heavier and I love Dio's work on that album, both vocally and lyrically. Which in turn makes me wonder where those guys might've gone had Tony and Geezer not fallen hook, line and sinker for Ozzy and Sharon's "Original Lineup Reunion Tour" bait at the end of 1992...
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I think Computer God might hsve been the first Sabbath song I heard. My guitar teacher put it on a mix tape for me. Blew me away, that voice.
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I think Computer God might hsve been the first Sabbath song I heard. My guitar teacher put it on a mix tape for me. Blew me away, that voice.
It was Heaven & Hell for me. But Dehumanizer was the first proper album I bought; I had most of the older big hits available to me already after buying The Dio Years compilation CD as my first intentional dive into metal (for some reason 14 year old me didn't put together that Megadeth was a metal band and not a rock band until after I checked out Dio-era Black Sabbath :lol ).
Honestly one song on the album that I think deserves way more recognition is Buried Alive. Dio's on fire on that song and Tony churns out some of his filthiest riffs ever. Sounds almost like something from either a groove metal or death metal band!
Actually Master Of Insanity and Too Late are both terrific, underrated songs on the album too.
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I think Computer God might hsve been the first Sabbath song I heard. My guitar teacher put it on a mix tape for me. Blew me away, that voice.
It was Heaven & Hell for me. But Dehumanizer was the first proper album I bought; I had most of the older big hits available to me already after buying The Dio Years compilation CD as my first intentional dive into metal (for some reason 14 year old me didn't put together that Megadeth was a metal band and not a rock band until after I checked out Dio-era Black Sabbath :lol ).
Honestly one song on the album that I think deserves way more recognition is Buried Alive. Dio's on fire on that song and Tony churns out some of his filthiest riffs ever. Sounds almost like something from either a groove metal or death metal band!
Great riff, brilliant chorus and really good leads from Tony too. Definitely an underrated cut.
I think Heaven and Hell was on the same mix tape. I might have known Paranoid, but hearing this Dio stuff just floored me. I made my guitar teacher copy the whole Dehumanizer album not long after.
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I think Computer God might hsve been the first Sabbath song I heard. My guitar teacher put it on a mix tape for me. Blew me away, that voice.
It was Heaven & Hell for me. But Dehumanizer was the first proper album I bought; I had most of the older big hits available to me already after buying The Dio Years compilation CD as my first intentional dive into metal (for some reason 14 year old me didn't put together that Megadeth was a metal band and not a rock band until after I checked out Dio-era Black Sabbath :lol ).
Honestly one song on the album that I think deserves way more recognition is Buried Alive. Dio's on fire on that song and Tony churns out some of his filthiest riffs ever. Sounds almost like something from either a groove metal or death metal band!
Great riff, brilliant chorus and really good leads from Tony too. Definitely an underrated cut.
I think Heaven and Hell was on the same mix tape. I might have known Paranoid, but hearing this Dio stuff just floored me. I made my guitar teacher copy the whole Dehumanizer album not long after.
Seriously. Some of Dio's best lyrics too, even if I don't necessarily agree wholly with the overall sentiment. Actually I'm listening to Dehumanizer now and I'm kinda taken aback by how modern it sounds compared to all of the other Dio albums (including TDYK). Tony's doing some really interesting stuff his riffs on this album, Dio altered his lyrical style and the production sounds crisp and heavy. It's a much fresher feeling album than either TDYK or 13 imo (not to bash either of those albums).
I already knew Iron Man, vaguely, but kinda like my history with Megadeth, I hadn't fully connected that it was the same band and genre until after I discovered Dio. But yeah, I completely relate. Discovering Dio's voice in conjunction with those big booming riffs struck a chord for me and I rapidly became an addict. :lol
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Thanks to this thread I have been revisiting a lot of my rare Tony Martin stuff.................didn't realise how many albums I have with him on (somewhere in the 20's) , but the word that comes to mind when I hear him is "presence." The second he enters a song it's just like "Hey........the man is here." - even more so than Dio to my ears and that's saying something..
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Thanks to this thread I have been revisiting a lot of my rare Tony Martin stuff.................didn't realise how many albums I have with him on (somewhere in the 20's) , but the word that comes to mind when I hear him is "presence." The second he enters a song it's just like "Hey........the man is here." - even more so than Dio to my ears and that's saying something..
Hey Brent, I’d certainly follow a Tony Martin Discography And Listening Party Thread. ;D
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Thanks to this thread I have been revisiting a lot of my rare Tony Martin stuff.................didn't realise how many albums I have with him on (somewhere in the 20's) , but the word that comes to mind when I hear him is "presence." The second he enters a song it's just like "Hey........the man is here." - even more so than Dio to my ears and that's saying something..
Hey Brent, I’d certainly follow a Tony Martin Discography And Listening Party Thread. ;D
Once I finish going through all my Riot albums..............some time in 2023 is my best estimate :biggrin:
I am lucky to listen to one album a week at the moment.........not good. When I said "revisiting" Tony Martin , that means maybe a dozen random tracks off some of the rarer albums.
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Glad to see Dehumanizer getting some love! Also stoked to hear Buried Alive getting some credit.
Seeing them as Heaven & Hell, I was very glad that they played a few Dehumanizer songs.
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I saw too Heaven and Hell, I will forever be happy and proud about it, and it's a consolation for not having seen Blackmore and Dio together. A reunion of those two... I would have traveled on the other side of the planet to see it.
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Thanks to this thread I have been revisiting a lot of my rare Tony Martin stuff.................didn't realise how many albums I have with him on (somewhere in the 20's) , but the word that comes to mind when I hear him is "presence." The second he enters a song it's just like "Hey........the man is here." - even more so than Dio to my ears and that's saying something..
Hey Brent, I’d certainly follow a Tony Martin Discography And Listening Party Thread. ;D
I would too; I'm only familiar with his Sabbath material, but I like him as a singer. I enjoy most of the Martin-era (oddly, the heavier they get the less I like it, but that's me).
I'd be interested in his solo work and the other projects he's done; I've been looking at one of his solo albums to buy, but it's expensive to buy sight un-, uh, heard.
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Glad to see Dehumanizer getting some love! Also stoked to hear Buried Alive getting some credit.
Seeing them as Heaven & Hell, I was very glad that they played a few Dehumanizer songs.
Missing out on those Heaven & Hell tours is still one of my biggest regrets in life. Bums me out far more that I missed catching Dio live than missing Ozzy. Heck, I didn't even know that Dio was fighting cancer when news of his death broke out. Completely blindsided me when it happened.
Dehumanizer is probably my favorite Sabbath album. It's hard for me to be absolutely positive, as the band has so many great albums to their name, but Dehumanizer's always had a particularly special place in my heart. And yeah, Buried Alive is a stunner. Still baffles me that hardly anyone ever brings it up! Or Master of Insanity for that matter!
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Glad to see Dehumanizer getting some love! Also stoked to hear Buried Alive getting some credit.
Seeing them as Heaven & Hell, I was very glad that they played a few Dehumanizer songs.
I saw H&H in 2007, and the set list was, with maybe one exception, basically what I would have chosen (I'd have swapped out Voodoo for Country Girl). When they started into "I" after "Children of the Sea," I just about lost it (and my friend, who didn't know Dehumanizer, didn't know the song).
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Glad to see Dehumanizer getting some love! Also stoked to hear Buried Alive getting some credit.
Seeing them as Heaven & Hell, I was very glad that they played a few Dehumanizer songs.
I saw H&H in 2007, and the set list was, with maybe one exception, basically what I would have chosen (I'd have swapped out Voodoo for Country Girl). When they started into "I" after "Children of the Sea," I just about lost it (and my friend, who didn't know Dehumanizer, didn't know the song).
Ah man! They actually played Country Girl in 2009, a bit abbreviated.
I saw them in 2007 and 2009, the latter of which was maybe the 5th to last show Dio ever played :'(
I caught two guitar picks from Iommi at each of those shows. The first one I gave one to my gf at the time which she later lost. The second time a guy ran up to me and offered 20 bucks for one of them. I was broke at the time so it was much appreciated although normally I would just give an extra to somebody. Still have the two I kept.
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Not Sabbath related, but I was front row at the Yngwie show I saw about a year ago, and I literally had like 10 or 15 picks (he's got this cool move where he kicks them out to the crowd; would've been great at Wembley, not so much at the Ridgefield Playhouse, cap. 500). I was handing them out after the show like I was a member of the f-----g band.
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Thanks to this thread I have been revisiting a lot of my rare Tony Martin stuff.................didn't realise how many albums I have with him on (somewhere in the 20's) , but the word that comes to mind when I hear him is "presence." The second he enters a song it's just like "Hey........the man is here." - even more so than Dio to my ears and that's saying something..
That's indeed saying something mate, but happy to read it, love his voice.
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I really enjoy the TM albums. I'm really weird in some ways about music. I actually
prefer the TM albums over most everything, with a couple exceptions.
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Strangely, the Sabbath singer that could sing every one of the songs best is the one that nobody remembers. Ray Gillen sang Ozzy's stuff, Dio's stuff, and even Gillan's and Hughes's stuff perfectly. None of them, despite being better singers, could ever really capture what Ozzy did, except Ray. The Montreal show (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GH3prrkO_L8) really covered all the ground and he nailed every bit of it.
I'm trying to figure out why that video refers to Montreal when it was actually recorded in London (England, not London, Ontario, Canada).
I'm pretty sure a cleaner version of the audio is the bonus disk on the Seventh Star reissue. That disk has nine songs from the Hammersmith Odeon in London on 2 June 1986. The Eternal Idol reissue has the Ray Gillen versions of those songs as the bonus disk.
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I really enjoy the TM albums. I'm really weird in some ways about music. I actually
prefer the TM albums over most everything, with a couple exceptions.
Nothing weird about that mate.
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The Tony Martin Sabbath albums while they have a solid enough fanbase really don't get the recognition they deserve. I hope that they can re-issue them at some point because I would buy them in a heartbeat.
I know Iommi is working on a remix of Forbidden that I'm interested to hear. While it is my least favorite Martin album it really isnt THAT bad. Though opening the album with Illusion of Power was a terrible decision as for me and many others it's the worst song on the album. Starts off on such a bad foot that for many people it just never recovered. I think if they buried it in the middle of the disk it wouldn't be as infamous but it's literally the first thing you hear.
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If memory serves correct my first exposure to Black Sabbath was Tyr so as in many cases what is current when you're growing up can be a big factor. It's weird thinking back to that time (mid to late 80's) - I was in my early-mid teens and was a massive Ozzy fan (and had worked my way back to Blizzard) , loved Martin era Sabbath and didn't get the relationship until I fell in love with Randy Rhoads Tribute and the rocked up versions of Paranoid and Children of The Grave and started asking around where they came from.
Regardless , I agree that the TM era is very under rated.
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Glad to see Dehumanizer getting some love! Also stoked to hear Buried Alive getting some credit.
Seeing them as Heaven & Hell, I was very glad that they played a few Dehumanizer songs.
I saw H&H in 2007, and the set list was, with maybe one exception, basically what I would have chosen (I'd have swapped out Voodoo for Country Girl). When they started into "I" after "Children of the Sea," I just about lost it (and my friend, who didn't know Dehumanizer, didn't know the song).
It was really a helluva thing to see. I caught Houston and Dallas and it was great to see something again that you thought was gone forever. Southern Cross and I were both standouts, and it was probably the best H&H rendition I've seen. My only gripe was playing E5150 as the intro and then interjecting After All before Mob Rules. Really odd decision, and I have no idea why they'd have done that.
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They must have realized it themselves 'cause they dropped it after some shows, when I did see them, they opened with Mob Rules.
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Pretty decent fan made video for 'Devil and Daughter' from the Headless Cross album.
https://youtu.be/LJMqxats_9c
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Pretty decent fan made video for 'Devil and Daughter' from the Headless Cross album.
https://youtu.be/LJMqxats_9c
One of the most underrated Martin era tracks. Iommi rips on this.
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Southern Cross and I were both standouts, and it was probably the best H&H rendition I've seen. My only gripe was playing E5150 as the intro and then interjecting After All before Mob Rules. Really odd decision, and I have no idea why they'd have done that.
Hmmm...they went straight from E5150 into Mob Rules at my show (10/6/07). Looks like the shows you saw were in the spring, and they seem to have "fixed" that when the tour moved to Europe in early June.
For the, the #1 highlight was Falling off the Edge of the World. Absolutely epic song, and when those first heavy chords kick in, it gives me goosebumps.
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Pretty decent fan made video for 'Devil and Daughter' from the Headless Cross album.
https://youtu.be/LJMqxats_9c
One of the most underrated Martin era tracks. Iommi rips on this.
Hey Wolfster, remember the huge turn outs for the Tony Martin era survivors lol. So many great tunes from the TM era, but Headless Cross was the first song I heard with Martin, and is still my favorite.
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Pretty decent fan made video for 'Devil and Daughter' from the Headless Cross album.
https://youtu.be/LJMqxats_9c
One of the most underrated Martin era tracks. Iommi rips on this.
Hey Wolfster, remember the huge turn outs for the Tony Martin era survivors lol. So many great tunes from the TM era, but Headless Cross was the first song I heard with Martin, and is still my favorite.
I was determined to keep running them with only like 3 of us voting. :lol seems like we'd get a couple more now which is good. Although doing them daily for next to no one was a bit torturous lol.
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25th April 1980.
HEAVEN AND HELL is released! :metal another landmark album in the history of heavy metal goes forty!
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25th April 1980.
HEAVEN AND HELL is released! :metal another landmark album in the history of heavy metal goes forty!
:metal :metal
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Still one of my favorites! :hat
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25th April 1980.
HEAVEN AND HELL is released! :metal another landmark album in the history of heavy metal goes forty!
:hefdaddy
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:metal :metal :metal :metal
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Along with Computer God, my guitar teacher back when I was like 13 also put Neon Knights and Heaven and Hell on a mixtape. Simply couldn't beleive my ears.
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Massive bump. But I have a good reason for it. It turns out, I've spent the last decade and a half living in a lie.
A friend of mine burned me a copy of Master of reality fifteen years ago. I've carried this copy around ever since and even burned it to my PC, which is how I've been listening to the album for years now. The copy obviously contained a short instrumental bit called Embryo before Children of the grave kicks in.
Today, for some reason, I decided to listen to the album via Spotify. Embryo starts, and it is the guitar intro that originaly kicked off Children of the grave itself on my copy. At the end of Children of the grave on Spotify, there is a short atmospheric bit with whispers that go around (I did some research, and the section is called The Haunting). The thing is this - The Haunting was actually titled Embryo on my original copy and it went on BEFORE Children of the grave. I've spent half my life thinking The Haunting is Embryo. :lol
So, here's the question. Has there ever been a reissue that features The Haunting before Children of the grave, or has it always been a part of Children of the grave ending?
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Massive bump. But I have a good reason for it. It turns out, I've spent the last decade and a half living in a lie.
A friend of mine burned me a copy of Master of reality fifteen years ago. I've carried this copy around ever since and even burned it to my PC, which is how I've been listening to the album for years now. The copy obviously contained a short instrumental bit called Embryo before Children of the grave kicks in.
Today, for some reason, I decided to listen to the album via Spotify. Embryo starts, and it is the guitar intro that originaly kicked off Children of the grave itself on my copy. At the end of Children of the grave on Spotify, there is a short atmospheric bit with whispers that go around (I did some research, and the section is called The Haunting). The thing is this - The Haunting was actually titled Embryo on my original copy and it went on BEFORE Children of the grave. I've spent half my life thinking The Haunting is Embryo. :lol
So, here's the question. Has there ever been a reissue that features The Haunting before Children of the grave, or has it always been a part of Children of the grave ending?
I have had four versions of the album proper: LP, Cassette, Original CD, and remastered deluxe version, and I have the song on the "We Sold Our Souls..." compilation. None have that reversed. Embryo is often broken into a separate song; if mentioned at all (and it's not always, like on WSOSFRNR) "The Haunting" isn't a separate track, but rather a footnote, either "Children Of The Grave/The Haunting" or "Children Of The Grave (with "The Haunting")". On the new deluxe version, "The Haunting" isn't even mentioned at all on the outer packaging or on the pictures of the tape boxes in the artwork.
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That is so interesting, thanks for the information. It's unbelievable how I even got to see Sabbath live, the set list said "Embryo/Children of the grave" afterwards, and I remember thinking "wait, I haven't heard Embryo!" :lol
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That is so interesting, thanks for the information. It's unbelievable how I even got to see Sabbath live, the set list said "Embryo/Children of the grave" afterwards, and I remember thinking "wait, I haven't heard Embryo!" :lol
Haha.
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Wow, I never even knew about The Haunting. First I'm hearing about it. Have to go back and check it out.
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Hmm, I always knew it as Embryo and I'm old enough to have seen Black Sabbath live with Ozzy and later with Dio on vocals. God, I was tripping SO hard when I saw them with Dio that it kind of freaked me out during "Sign of the Southern Cross" I was peaking on 2 hits of Window Pane Acid. :rollin That was a crazy night. I couldn't drive home until about 6 am because I was still tripping my balls off and didn't want to risk it.
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Wow, I never even knew about The Haunting. First I'm hearing about it. Have to go back and check it out.
Sabbath did that a lot.
Wasp/Behind The Wall Of Sleep
Bassically/N.I.B.
A Bit Of Finger/Sleeping Village
War Pigs/Luke's Wall
Jack The Stripper/Fairies Wear Boots
The Elegy/After Forever
Step Up/Lord OF This World
Deathmask/Into The Void
Wheel's Of Confusion/The Straightener
Under The Sun/Every Day Comes And Goes
Some are real (the "Bassically" intro to N.I.B., the instrumental outro Luke's Wall) some are more iffy, like The Elegy, which is basically 15 seconds of keyboard swirl. I can't even tell you what "Step Up" and "Deathmask" really are, other than the intro riff to the actual song.
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Hmmm...I had a record back in the day. For whatever reason, I didn't replace it with a CD at or before the time that I dumped the last of my vinyl records in the late 90s, and I only bought a CD for Master of Reality last year.
I'm pretty sure Embryo has always been Embryo, and I can't recall ever hearing of "The Haunting" and always attributed that stuff at the end of Children of the Grave to "crap they did at the end because they had time and were stoned."
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The Embryo (https://youtu.be/zpR7dbZAprk)
Children Of The Grave/The Haunting (https://youtu.be/jN0h_x5qHgo) "The Haunting" starts at 4:25
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Yeah, I know all them but literally never heard of The Haunting before. Huh!
Pretty sure Step Up and Deathmask are just that, the intro riffs to the songs.
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Another demo has been released by the estate of Geoff Nicholls. The title of the song appears to be Slapback https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jG758iBHa_Y (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jG758iBHa_Y)
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Another demo has been released by the estate of Geoff Nicholls. The title of the song appears to be Slapback https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jG758iBHa_Y (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jG758iBHa_Y)
That was kinda meh, but here's the link for a demo of Heaven and Hell posted on the same channel about a month ago: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uAk4Z3sX0F4
Interesting and raw as fuck.
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Whoa, he sounds a lot like Dio, holy shit :eek
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Just noticed that the bass line is different from the final version too. Interesting
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That is Dio singing. It's Geoff Nichols playing bass.
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That is Dio singing. It's Geoff Nichols playing bass.
There was another guy in early, too, as Geezer had left shortly after Ozzy did, thinking it was over; I want to say it was Craig Gruber, though it might have been Mark Clark (both ex-Rainbow). Then Geezer came back, and while there has been some discussion about this, Geezer re-recorded everything.
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That is Dio singing. It's Geoff Nichols playing bass.
oops, I thought it was a different vocalist. Well that explains the different bass line then :lol
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From Lommi re the Martin-era reissues...
“It's unfortunate that over the years Tony Martin has got buried in all this Ozzy and Dio stuff and everything,” Iommi added. “There will be a period now where we'll be able to release the box set with the Tony Martin albums with some good outtakes as well. I've already mixed [it] here at home, so that's all ready to go, but we have to wait until the time is right. We can't put all these things out together — it would cause confusion.”
https://www-loudersound-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/www.loudersound.com/amp/news/tony-iommi-dismisses-rock-is-dead-talk-readies-tony-martin-era-sabbath-box-set?amp_gsa=1&_js_v=a6&usqp=mq331AQFKAGwASA%3D#amp_tf=From%20%251%24s&aoh=16175081276153&csi=0&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&share=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.loudersound.com%2Fnews%2Ftony-iommi-dismisses-rock-is-dead-talk-readies-tony-martin-era-sabbath-box-set
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That's awesome. I've been listening to a lot of Headless Cross, TYR and Cross Purposes over the last few days. I'd love remastered or remixed versions.
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Iommi has been saying similar things for quite a few years now.
Forbidden is being remixed, the rest Headless Cross, Tyr and Cross Purposes will be remastered.
Lets hope there not just brick walled and some of the unreleased material is decent.
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Yes some of the recent reviews for the newly remastered H&H and Mob Rules suggest they're way too loud so not sure whether to pursue those yet or not :(
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I only have the 2017 remasters and they sound great.
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From Lommi re the Martin-era reissues...
“It's unfortunate that over the years Tony Martin has got buried in all this Ozzy and Dio stuff and everything,” Iommi added. “There will be a period now where we'll be able to release the box set with the Tony Martin albums with some good outtakes as well. I've already mixed [it] here at home, so that's all ready to go, but we have to wait until the time is right. We can't put all these things out together — it would cause confusion.”
https://www-loudersound-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/www.loudersound.com/amp/news/tony-iommi-dismisses-rock-is-dead-talk-readies-tony-martin-era-sabbath-box-set?amp_gsa=1&_js_v=a6&usqp=mq331AQFKAGwASA%3D#amp_tf=From%20%251%24s&aoh=16175081276153&csi=0&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&share=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.loudersound.com%2Fnews%2Ftony-iommi-dismisses-rock-is-dead-talk-readies-tony-martin-era-sabbath-box-set
First day buyer on a box set with the Martin albums.
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I've listened to the Tony Martin stuff about ten years after I've discovered the rest of the catalogue. Maybe it was a bit late for me, but I wasn't too crazy about the albums. Tyr is solid, but the rest didn't work for me.
I also remember being disappointed with Headless cross, given that a lot of my friends love it. But then again, perhaps I should give it another shot.
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Headless Cross is a top 50 album for me.
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I hope the Martin era releases come out somewhat soon as they will be a day one buy for me. Cross Purposes is the most underrated album in the bands entire discography IMO.
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Cross Purposes is easily my favorite of the Martin Era.
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Cross Purposes and The Eternal Idol are essentials IMO :metal
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All Martin era is great but Eternal Idol takes the win which is kind of sad to say considering Martin had the least to do with that. It's also amazing how great that album is considering what a mess it was. They had at least two musicians for every instrument it seems (minus keyboards and guitar) and nobody wanted to be in the band but between Bob Daisley and Eric Singer whose performances remained and Tony Martin who I feel is way better than Ray Gillen, that album holds up with just about any other great Sabbath album.
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I'd probably put Headless Cross at the top for me, closely followed by TYR. Cross Purposes is a very mature album IMO and sounds great.
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From Lommi re the Martin-era reissues...
“It's unfortunate that over the years Tony Martin has got buried in all this Ozzy and Dio stuff and everything,” Iommi added. “There will be a period now where we'll be able to release the box set with the Tony Martin albums with some good outtakes as well. I've already mixed [it] here at home, so that's all ready to go, but we have to wait until the time is right. We can't put all these things out together — it would cause confusion.”
https://www-loudersound-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/www.loudersound.com/amp/news/tony-iommi-dismisses-rock-is-dead-talk-readies-tony-martin-era-sabbath-box-set?amp_gsa=1&_js_v=a6&usqp=mq331AQFKAGwASA%3D#amp_tf=From%20%251%24s&aoh=16175081276153&csi=0&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&share=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.loudersound.com%2Fnews%2Ftony-iommi-dismisses-rock-is-dead-talk-readies-tony-martin-era-sabbath-box-set
First day buyer on a box set with the Martin albums.
As am I. I even like Forbidden. I saw the Cross Purposes and Forbidden tours, and even though Tony was suffering on the latter - sick; it was a cold snowy February when I saw them in Connecticut - it was still good (though Cross Purposes was so much better because of Geezer being there).
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Count me in as another first day buyer of the Martin set. I only own the Deluxe Eternal Idol set. Everything else I had to get via other means. I have been craving proper versions for years now.
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There's material there, too. There are Japanese bonus tracks for both Cross Purposes ("What's The Use") and Forbidden ("Loser Gets It All") that are very hard to find. There are a couple B-sides that are on CD singles, but the CD singles are wicked expensive ("Cloak And Dagger" from the "Black Moon" single, some live stuff on the "Feels Good To Me" single). The Cross Purposes Live CD is missing a couple tunes that came on the VHS video (you can get DVD versions, but they are not official).
I'm giddy if this is a real thing on the near horizon.
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There's material there, too. There are Japanese bonus tracks for both Cross Purposes ("What's The Use") and Forbidden ("Loser Gets It All") that are very hard to find. There are a couple B-sides that are on CD singles, but the CD singles are wicked expensive ("Cloak And Dagger" from the "Black Moon" single, some live stuff on the "Feels Good To Me" single). The Cross Purposes Live CD is missing a couple tunes that came on the VHS video (you can get DVD versions, but they are not official).
I'm giddy if this is a real thing on the near horizon.
All this stuff would be nice but all of the above has pretty much been released, I would be hoping for genuine unreleased stuff, live or studio.
Even the infamous Headless In Moscow bootleg (https://youtu.be/4oPajl7zV0A) might be a push as the master tapes were 'confiscated' by Russian authorities soon after recording.
Although the set list isn't very Martine era friendly. Still a better performance than the Cross Purposes Live set, as Martin isn't at his best due to illness at the time.
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There's material there, too. There are Japanese bonus tracks for both Cross Purposes ("What's The Use") and Forbidden ("Loser Gets It All") that are very hard to find. There are a couple B-sides that are on CD singles, but the CD singles are wicked expensive ("Cloak And Dagger" from the "Black Moon" single, some live stuff on the "Feels Good To Me" single). The Cross Purposes Live CD is missing a couple tunes that came on the VHS video (you can get DVD versions, but they are not official).
I'm giddy if this is a real thing on the near horizon.
All this stuff would be nice but all of the above has pretty much been released, I would be hoping for genuine unreleased stuff, live or studio.
Even the infamous Headless In Moscow bootleg (https://youtu.be/4oPajl7zV0A) might be a push as the master tapes were 'confiscated' by Russian authorities soon after recording.
Although the set list isn't very Martine era friendly. Still a better performance than the Cross Purposes Live set, as Martin isn't at his best due to illness at the time.
Fair enough, you're right. It can be pricey to collect, though. It'd be nice to have it all in one place.
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There's material there, too. There are Japanese bonus tracks for both Cross Purposes ("What's The Use") and Forbidden ("Loser Gets It All") that are very hard to find. There are a couple B-sides that are on CD singles, but the CD singles are wicked expensive ("Cloak And Dagger" from the "Black Moon" single, some live stuff on the "Feels Good To Me" single). The Cross Purposes Live CD is missing a couple tunes that came on the VHS video (you can get DVD versions, but they are not official).
I'm giddy if this is a real thing on the near horizon.
All this stuff would be nice but all of the above has pretty much been released, I would be hoping for genuine unreleased stuff, live or studio.
Even the infamous Headless In Moscow bootleg (https://youtu.be/4oPajl7zV0A) might be a push as the master tapes were 'confiscated' by Russian authorities soon after recording.
Although the set list isn't very Martine era friendly. Still a better performance than the Cross Purposes Live set, as Martin isn't at his best due to illness at the time.
Pretty sure I have an unofficial DVD of that Moscow show. I didn't really have an issue with him on Cross Purposes Live. He definitely is under par nut enjoyable to watch.
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There's material there, too. There are Japanese bonus tracks for both Cross Purposes ("What's The Use") and Forbidden ("Loser Gets It All") that are very hard to find. There are a couple B-sides that are on CD singles, but the CD singles are wicked expensive ("Cloak And Dagger" from the "Black Moon" single, some live stuff on the "Feels Good To Me" single). The Cross Purposes Live CD is missing a couple tunes that came on the VHS video (you can get DVD versions, but they are not official).
I'm giddy if this is a real thing on the near horizon.
Never understood why Loser Gets it All was a bonus track, it's brilliant.
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Agreed. Same with What's the Use.
I hope there's audio from earlier in the Cross Purposes tour that they can release as he sounded much better. It's commendable that he did most of that tour while ill but it clearly messed up his voice as he was never the same afterwards live.
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Tony Martin who I feel is way better than Ray Gillen.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=97-1mUmljdw
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Tony Martin who I feel is way better than Ray Gillen.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=97-1mUmljdw
I agree with Madman, frankly. I LIKE Tony Martin.
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Tony Martin who I feel is way better than Ray Gillen.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=97-1mUmljdw
I agree with Madman, frankly. I LIKE Tony Martin.
I kept hearing about those mythical demos with Ray and how much better they were and when I finally heard them....underwhelmed. great vocalist of course but compared to Tony just a tad more....generic.
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The Tony Martin era has always been my fav, and still is. Always loved his voice.
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The absolute holy grail of Tony Martin BS demo's is the alleged Dehumanizer sessions.
Folk lore has it that Iommi brought in TM in case Dio jumped again.
There are loads of demo's with the Powell/Iommi/Butler/Dio line up easily found, but so far nothing with TM.
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The absolute holy grail of Tony Martin BS demo's is the alleged Dehumanizer sessions.
Folk lore has it that Iommi brought in TM in case Dio jumped again.
There are loads of demo's with the Powell/Iommi/Butler/Dio line up easily found, but so far nothing with TM.
I'd pay to hear that. I'm all in with the first two Dio records - H&H, MR - but I thought the Dehumanizer and Heaven And Hell were a step down, and were trading on cliches. I've since gone back to Dehumanizer, and it's better than I remember, but I think I prefer Tony Martin to those latter two. So to hear Tony sing on some of that material would be a treat!
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The absolute holy grail of Tony Martin BS demo's is the alleged Dehumanizer sessions.
Folk lore has it that Iommi brought in TM in case Dio jumped again.
There are loads of demo's with the Powell/Iommi/Butler/Dio line up easily found, but so far nothing with TM.
I'd pay to hear that.
Without question.
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The absolute holy grail of Tony Martin BS demo's is the alleged Dehumanizer sessions.
Folk lore has it that Iommi brought in TM in case Dio jumped again.
There are loads of demo's with the Powell/Iommi/Butler/Dio line up easily found, but so far nothing with TM.
I'd pay to hear that.
Without question.
+1
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Folk lore has it that Iommi brought in TM in case Dio jumped again.
Actually there's a non official site, Black-Sabbath.com, that has a fantastic timeline page detailing in excruciating detail every single lineup change. It seems that Dio DID jump ship, Tony Martin was really brought in not as a just-in-case basis, but specifically 'cause Dio didn't work out. Only when the label put their feet down both parties (Sabbath / Dio) decided to give it a go.
It's incredible how much Dio and Sabbath had a love / hate relationship. He came, he saved the band from near dissolution, then after two awesome albums their egos got the better of them, and the straw that broke the camel's back was the infamous sneaky mixing of Live Evil, where apparently Dio was changing the mixes to his favor in the night and Iommi was doing the same in the morning (or the other way around).
A decade goes by, Dio finally rejoins Sabbath, the thing falls apart even before the album is released only to be patched back together, and after one album Ozzy "retires" and the band folds AGAIN (tanks btw to Rob Halford to step in and creating two legendary, unique and heavily bootlegged nights).
It's only in 2006 that finally the guys get together for a third time, we get an amazing tour based only on Dio material, a new heavy, doomish and uncompromising album, and then Dio gets ill and dies.
I am so, so, SO glad to have seen Dio and Iommi together in Black Sabbath, twice. The other dream will remain one - Dio and Blackmore back together, gosh what a marvel it could have been (especially if Cozy Powell didn't die - I believe there were some talks in 1998 but Cozy died and the thing fell apart, with Blackmore going medieval instead).
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The first split is interesting because you get a different story from each person. Dio's side of the story was that him and Vinny would be in the studio for hours by themselves because Iommi & Geezer were usually very late due to their drug usage at the time. So instead of just sitting around they would experiment with the mix a bit just to see how it would sound. Essentially it was a Cocaine fueled misunderstanding between Tony & the engineer. There were other problems in the band at the time and this just pushed it over the edge.
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Folk lore has it that Iommi brought in TM in case Dio jumped again.
Actually there's a non official site, Black-Sabbath.com, that has a fantastic timeline page detailing in excruciating detail every single lineup change. It seems that Dio DID jump ship, Tony Martin was really brought in not as a just-in-case basis, but specifically 'cause Dio didn't work out. Only when the label put their feet down both parties (Sabbath / Dio) decided to give it a go.
It's incredible how much Dio and Sabbath had a love / hate relationship. He came, he saved the band from near dissolution, then after two awesome albums their egos got the better of them, and the straw that broke the camel's back was the infamous sneaky mixing of Live Evil, where apparently Dio was changing the mixes to his favor in the night and Iommi was doing the same in the morning (or the other way around).
A decade goes by, Dio finally rejoins Sabbath, the thing falls apart even before the album is released only to be patched back together, and after one album Ozzy "retires" and the band folds AGAIN (tanks btw to Rob Halford to step in and creating two legendary, unique and heavily bootlegged nights).
It's only in 2006 that finally the guys get together for a third time, we get an amazing tour based only on Dio material, a new heavy, doomish and uncompromising album, and then Dio gets ill and dies.
I am so, so, SO glad to have seen Dio and Iommi together in Black Sabbath, twice. The other dream will remain one - Dio and Blackmore back together, gosh what a marvel it could have been (especially if Cozy Powell didn't die - I believe there were some talks in 1998 but Cozy died and the thing fell apart, with Blackmore going medieval instead).
If that's the site I'm thinking of, it's by a guy named Joe, and it's unofficial, but he's got a relationship with the band (Geezer in particular if memory serves) and his info is pretty solid.
It's also my understanding that Cozy was really pushing to get the Rising lineup back together. Who knows if it would have happened? I know Blackmore reconciled with Coverdale, but it's limited to the social/personal, not the musical.
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Tony Martin who I feel is way better than Ray Gillen.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=97-1mUmljdw
I agree with Madman, frankly. I LIKE Tony Martin.
I kept hearing about those mythical demos with Ray and how much better they were and when I finally heard them....underwhelmed. great vocalist of course but compared to Tony just a tad more....generic.
I'm a big Tony Martin fan, and you may be on to something about Gillen sounding generic, but Gillen really was the better singer. It's shown in two ways. One, Martin was hit or miss singing live, and his hits weren't all that great. He was never able to pull off live what he could do in the studio. Second, Martin was the only singer who sounded great singing from every era. He even sounded good singing Ozzy's stuff, which none of the others could claim. Rather than the demos, you might check out the Montreal video. With all respect to Tony Martin, I don't think he could have ever pulled this off this well.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GH3prrkO_L8
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Folk lore has it that Iommi brought in TM in case Dio jumped again.
Actually there's a non official site, Black-Sabbath.com, that has a fantastic timeline page detailing in excruciating detail every single lineup change. It seems that Dio DID jump ship, Tony Martin was really brought in not as a just-in-case basis, but specifically 'cause Dio didn't work out. Only when the label put their feet down both parties (Sabbath / Dio) decided to give it a go.
It's incredible how much Dio and Sabbath had a love / hate relationship. He came, he saved the band from near dissolution, then after two awesome albums their egos got the better of them, and the straw that broke the camel's back was the infamous sneaky mixing of Live Evil, where apparently Dio was changing the mixes to his favor in the night and Iommi was doing the same in the morning (or the other way around).
A decade goes by, Dio finally rejoins Sabbath, the thing falls apart even before the album is released only to be patched back together, and after one album Ozzy "retires" and the band folds AGAIN (tanks btw to Rob Halford to step in and creating two legendary, unique and heavily bootlegged nights).
It's only in 2006 that finally the guys get together for a third time, we get an amazing tour based only on Dio material, a new heavy, doomish and uncompromising album, and then Dio gets ill and dies.
I am so, so, SO glad to have seen Dio and Iommi together in Black Sabbath, twice. The other dream will remain one - Dio and Blackmore back together, gosh what a marvel it could have been (especially if Cozy Powell didn't die - I believe there were some talks in 1998 but Cozy died and the thing fell apart, with Blackmore going medieval instead).
If that's the site I'm thinking of, it's by a guy named Joe, and it's unofficial, but he's got a relationship with the band (Geezer in particular if memory serves) and his info is pretty solid.
It's also my understanding that Cozy was really pushing to get the Rising lineup back together. Who knows if it would have happened? I know Blackmore reconciled with Coverdale, but it's limited to the social/personal, not the musical.
Yes I know the site well and have read it quite a few times.
The guy who runs the site has a direct line to Iommi and/or his manager.
Joe actually has given a list of material that he would like to be included on any remastered album and/or box set.
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Never been to that site. That's a good one.
Oh, and every year and a half or so when the Tony Martin Era comes up, and everyone declares their love for it, I usually run through the albums and wonder what the hubbub is all about.
Probably going to take the cheese again...
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With the expectation that you will now hate them, I LOVE:
- The Sabbath Stones
- Jerusalem
- Crown of Thorns
- Psychophobia
- Can't Get Close To You
- Rusty Angels
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Psychophobia is awesome!
I'll run through the albums I guess.
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Actually there's a non official site, Black-Sabbath.com
I used to use visit this site religiously back when I was in my discover mode with Sabbath I'd say early 2000's, it's a gold mine of information. That and the now discontinued Iron Maiden Commentary fan site were my go-to sites for all sorts of trivial information regarding the band and albums.
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Actually there's a non official site, Black-Sabbath.com
I used to use visit this site religiously back when I was in my discover mode with Sabbath I'd say early 2000's, it's a gold mine of information. That and the now discontinued Iron Maiden Commentary fan site were my go-to sites for all sorts of trivial information regarding the band and albums.
I used to spend a lot of time at the Iron Maiden Commentary as well.
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With the expectation that you will now hate them, I LOVE:
- The Sabbath Stones
- Jerusalem
- Crown of Thorns
- Psychophobia
- Can't Get Close To You
- Rusty Angels
Jerusalem is a hidden gem of the Martin era, magic song.
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Just ran through The Eternal Idol.
This is a real solid album. The production neuters the guitars and the vocal mix feels a bit off in places, like in the verse to Ancient Warrior. It feels like a vocal track added to the music, but doesn't quite feel part of the music.
Tony Martin sounds incredible though. Very Dio-like in spots.
Lost Forever smokes and has a great melodic solo.
The middle run of Hard Life To Live-Glory Ride-Born To Lose is really consistant.
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Just ran through The Eternal Idol.
This is a real solid album. The production neuters the guitars and the vocal mix feels a bit off in places, like in the verse to Ancient Warrior. It feels like a vocal track added to the music, but doesn't quite feel part of the music.
Tony Martin sounds incredible though. Very Dio-like in spots.
Lost Forever smokes and has a great melodic solo.
The middle run of Hard Life To Live-Glory Ride-Born To Lose is really consistant.
Glory Ride and Born to Lose are probably my favs. Tony stepped up his soloing in this era too. That solo in Ancient Warrior is tremendous.
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With the expectation that you will now hate them, I LOVE:
- The Sabbath Stones
- Jerusalem
- Crown of Thorns
- Psychophobia
- Can't Get Close To You
- Rusty Angels
Crown of Thorns is absolutely awesome and if it was on a Dio album, it would be a greatly revered track.
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It's only in 2006 that finally the guys get together for a third time, we get an amazing tour based only on Dio material, a new heavy, doomish and uncompromising album, and then Dio gets ill and dies.
Which album was that?
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It's only in 2006 that finally the guys get together for a third time, we get an amazing tour based only on Dio material, a new heavy, doomish and uncompromising album, and then Dio gets ill and dies.
Which album was that?
The Devil You Know!
https://open.spotify.com/album/49z8GQTJCQBXVT81k0gXzV
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https://www.discogs.com/Heaven-Hell-The-Devil-You-Know/master/98550
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It's only in 2006 that finally the guys get together for a third time, we get an amazing tour based only on Dio material, a new heavy, doomish and uncompromising album, and then Dio gets ill and dies.
Which album was that?
Check it mate.
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Shout out to the 3 studio tracks on the Dio Years collection, they were very cool.
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Shout out to the 3 studio tracks on the Dio Years collection, they were very cool.
Yeah! I often forget about those, but they are killer songs.
I normally tag those on to the end of 'The Devil You Know' when I put it on my iPod.
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It's only in 2006 that finally the guys get together for a third time, we get an amazing tour based only on Dio material, a new heavy, doomish and uncompromising album, and then Dio gets ill and dies.
Which album was that?
Check it mate.
Oh that one. I thought he was saying they made an album with Dio in 2006. I never got into that Heaven and Hell album. Twas a bit boring.
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As good as Dio sounded on it, the album is tough to get through.
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I liked the Devil you Know. My least favorite from that lineup but I still enjoy it. Also while we're on the subject of the martin era these are my personal favorites.
Born to Lose
Lost Forever
Glory Ride
Devil & Daughter
When Death Calls
Black Moon
Anno Mundi
Jerusalem
Heaven in Black
I Witness
Immaculate Deception
What's the Use
I won't Cry For You
Shaking Off the Chains
Guilty As Hell
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I'm going to run through them before I make a list. Most of the material has just never stuck with me.
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Shout out to the 3 studio tracks on the Dio Years collection, they were very cool.
Yeah! I often forget about those, but they are killer songs.
I normally tag those on to the end of 'The Devil You Know' when I put it on my iPod.
I re-sequenced the album to include them. And yes, three songs, three killer tracks.
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I'm not a Queen fan but the solo on When Death Calls is probably one of my top 5 Sabbath moments. Top song too but that solo from May is just unbelievable. Wish he did some metal.
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With the expectation that you will now hate them, I LOVE:
- The Sabbath Stones
- Jerusalem
- Crown of Thorns
- Psychophobia
- Can't Get Close To You
- Rusty Angels
Crown of Thorns is absolutely awesome and if it was on a Dio album, it would be a greatly revered track.
It was: "Children Of The Sea". :) :)
I kid, and that shows a lot more disrespect to CoT than it deserves. Though having said that, I remember playing that track to a friend who was a hard core Dio fan, and he had trouble telling the voices apart at first.
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As good as Dio sounded on it, the album is tough to get through.
I think I'm alone in this, but I feel the two latter day Dio-Sabbath albums are underwhelming. I think they fell into stereotypes at that point. Dio had to be the growling heavy metal wizard, and Iommi had to be the Riff-master General. I think 13 absolutely BLOWS away both the later Dio records. There are bits and pieces on 13 that are reminiscent of all eight Ozzy-era Sabbath records, and that's a good thing. It's 3D. It's got character.
Controversial statement alert: I think Dio is only the second best lyricist in that band. I MUCH prefer Geezer's lyrics over Dio's.
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As good as Dio sounded on it, the album is tough to get through.
I think I'm alone in this, but I feel the two latter day Dio-Sabbath albums are underwhelming. I think they fell into stereotypes at that point. Dio had to be the growling heavy metal wizard, and Iommi had to be the Riff-master General. I think 13 absolutely BLOWS away both the later Dio records. There are bits and pieces on 13 that are reminiscent of all eight Ozzy-era Sabbath records, and that's a good thing. It's 3D. It's got character.
Controversial statement alert: I think Dio is only the second best lyricist in that band. I MUCH prefer Geezer's lyrics over Dio's.
I see no issues with that.
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Yeah that’s not really controversial.
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Well Geezer is one of my favorite lyricists from any band so no disagreement there. Dio was no slouch in that department but he could get a bit repetitive with his themes.
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Well Geezer is one of my favorite lyricists from any band so no disagreement there. Dio was no slouch in that department but he could get a bit repetitive with his themes.
There's a guy who has done a series of songs/videos where he has an AI bot write lyrics in the style of a particular artist by inputting every set of lyrics that artist ever did. The guy then writes music in the style of the artist and performs the song (this one's my favorite: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vpEVsDN84Hc ). I'm waiting for him to do Dio. It'll be nothing but "wolves and wheels and magic and wizards and dragons!"
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Well Geezer is one of my favorite lyricists from any band so no disagreement there. Dio was no slouch in that department but he could get a bit repetitive with his themes.
There's a guy who has done a series of songs/videos where he has an AI bot write lyrics in the style of a particular artist by inputting every set of lyrics that artist ever did. The guy then writes music in the style of the artist and performs the song (this one's my favorite: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vpEVsDN84Hc ). I'm waiting for him to do Dio. It'll be nothing but "wolves and wheels and magic and wizards and dragons!"
Don’t forget the rainbows!
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Well Geezer is one of my favorite lyricists from any band so no disagreement there. Dio was no slouch in that department but he could get a bit repetitive with his themes.
There's a guy who has done a series of songs/videos where he has an AI bot write lyrics in the style of a particular artist by inputting every set of lyrics that artist ever did. The guy then writes music in the style of the artist and performs the song (this one's my favorite: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vpEVsDN84Hc ). I'm waiting for him to do Dio. It'll be nothing but "wolves and wheels and magic and wizards and dragons!"
That's a wonderful idea, and the guy did a great job of making it a song. The thing is, it's not really writing lyrics in the style of ACDC, but rather taking lyrics from ACDC and mashing them all together. In any case, Too many Women with Too Many Balls was absolutely inspired. :lol
Also, I'm pretty sure that the "AI" would just spit out My Eyes (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G9hSZIQPFB8) and call it a day. It's the same trick.
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I've been listening to a TON of Headless Cross and TYR lately - Headless Cross has to be one of the best Tony Martin-era songs. Both records are really good though.
Also listening to a bit of The End and it's hard to believe that the last Black Sabbath concert happened four years ago already.
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Was pumping Headless Cross this morning travelling around for work. Outstanding.
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I've been listening to a TON of Headless Cross and TYR lately - Headless Cross has to be one of the best Tony Martin-era songs. Both records are really good though.
Also listening to a bit of The End and it's hard to believe that the last Black Sabbath concert happened four years ago already.
I listened to 13 yesterday, and what I call "13 1/2" (the four bonus songs from the "13" album deluxe version, plus the four studio songs from "The End" EP) and I love that album. Ozzy doesn't sound great, but it all works. I saw that show in Mansfield, MA, with Rival Sons opening. What a good show.
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I've been listening to a TON of Headless Cross and TYR lately - Headless Cross has to be one of the best Tony Martin-era songs. Both records are really good though.
Also listening to a bit of The End and it's hard to believe that the last Black Sabbath concert happened four years ago already.
I listened to 13 yesterday, and what I call "13 1/2" (the four bonus songs from the "13" album deluxe version, plus the four studio songs from "The End" EP) and I love that album. Ozzy doesn't sound great, but it all works. I saw that show in Mansfield, MA, with Rival Sons opening. What a good show.
Agreed and I got to see Hand of Doom live which is one of my favorites.
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I've been listening to a TON of Headless Cross and TYR lately - Headless Cross has to be one of the best Tony Martin-era songs. Both records are really good though.
Also listening to a bit of The End and it's hard to believe that the last Black Sabbath concert happened four years ago already.
Headless Cross has grown on me so much over the past few years I'd almost rank it ahead of Cross Purposes maybe not The Eternal Idol but that's saying something ;D
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Tony Martin isolated vocals from Headless Cross.
https://youtu.be/5f9MGHvvt98
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Happy Birthday to Anthony Philip Harford who is 63 years young today.
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Those isolated vocals are amazing!
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Those isolated vocals are amazing!
I found them fascinating. I never would have guessed that so much reverb went into vocal tracks. I certainly don't hear it on the album, but I suspect that I'd instantly notice if the reverb were removed. I imagine there are a lot of things like that which go into making an album sound good, and HC does, that we never really pick up on.
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Iommi is thinking about remixing Born Again as they finally tracked down the masters. He also mentions a Tony Martin box. I'm on board for both. Let's get them out already.
https://bravewords.com/news/black-sabbaths-tony-iommi-says-he-may-be-remixing-born-again-we-have-found-the-original-tapes
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I'd be all over a Tony Martin box set, but not for the Born Again EP.
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I'm all over the Tony Martin box set. In a heartbeat.
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Yeah same, although I have all the original Martin era on CD, hopefully the remasters (Forbidden remix) will bring something new.
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I'm all over both of those.
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Maybe we'll see one of these projects released this decade.
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New instrumental Tony posted up couple days back sounds quite great! :metal
(sorry if posted elsewhere already I didn't see it ;))
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xala32PZ5vU
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Sounds amazing, great to hear and see something new from Tony.
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https://bravewords.com/news/black-sabbath-born-again-master-tapes-found-tony-iommi-planning-to-remix
Hopefully there's additional tracks.
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New instrumental Tony posted up couple days back sounds quite great! :metal
(sorry if posted elsewhere already I didn't see it ;))
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xala32PZ5vU
Cool shit.
https://bravewords.com/news/black-sabbath-born-again-master-tapes-found-tony-iommi-planning-to-remix
Hopefully there's additional tracks.
I love this album. I never really had an issue with the production but I could definitely see why people would. Such a strong album and Gillan rips on the whole damn thing.
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Born Again is more like an EP. But an awesome one at that.
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One of the few times when band members ripping on an album bothered me. I LOVE Born Again. It's not the best ever, but for what it was, when it came out, I was into it and still am. Though my friend Jim calls it "Zero The Album".
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Born Again is more like an EP. But an awesome one at that.
What do you mean?
One of the few times when band members ripping on an album bothered me. I LOVE Born Again. It's not the best ever, but for what it was, when it came out, I was into it and still am. Though my friend Jim calls it "Zero The Album".
Yeah, I never understood the criticism. Heavy, raw, energetic, unique just a wonderful album. As I said, Gillan is amazing here. His vocals on the title track are ridiculous.
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Born Again is more like an EP. But an awesome one at that.
What do you mean?
Well, if you remove The Dark and Stonehenge, you're at 7 tracks @ 37m.
Not a fan of Hotline or Keep It Warm so now I'm down to 5 tracks @ 28ms
5 tracks @ 28m = EP!
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Born Again is more like an EP. But an awesome one at that.
What do you mean?
Well, if you remove The Dark and Stonehenge, you're at 7 tracks @ 37m.
Not a fan of Hotline or Keep It Warm so now I'm down to 5 tracks @ 28ms
5 tracks @ 28m = EP!
Man, Keep it Warm is so good. Tony's solo here rips. One of his best moments and such a great buildup.
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OK, add it back in, and it's still like 33 minutes.
Honestly, the only songs I really like are Disturbing The Priest and Zero The Hero. Born Again and Trashed are fine and Digital Bitch fucking smokes but that chorus? WTF?
So I have a story about Born Again..
I went to a private catholic high school (my father taught there, and I got into trouble in junior high) which meant that I went to school with kids from all different towns. In the 10th grade, I was in English class and the kid two seats in front of me, who I really didn't know, had a Born Again tour shirt that I could see through his white dress shirt.
Anyway, I started a conversation with him about it, and we became really good friends. In fact he's the only person from high school that am still in contact with. (He's the same guy that had Rik Emmet sing at his wedding.)
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That's a cool little story.
I've never thought or had an issue with the length. Obviously it was a strained and confusing time for the band, and it showed in the album. Probably a reason why I like it so much.
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That’s classic. A shirt with a satanic devil-baby on it being worn at catholic shool. I read somewhere that when Ian Gillian saw the cover for the album he just did vocals on, he was appalled. :lol
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Reign In Blood is just over 28 minutes.
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I've never thought or had an issue with the length.
You're a lucky guy!
:zydarscouch:
Even the live show for that tour was short as hell. But there is something cool as hell about the album, I'll give you that. Hopefully whatever they release includes a live show.
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:lol
Yeah, a decent sounding bootleg would be awesome.
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Born Again and Trashed are fine and Digital Bitch fucking smokes but that chorus? WTF?
You mean the chorus lyrics? Are they really any worse than "her big fat daddy was a money machine," "she's a greedy emotional looter" and "her life is just one ginormous thrill"?
So I have a story about Born Again..
I went to a private catholic high school (my father taught there, and I got into trouble in junior high) which meant that I went to school with kids from all different towns. In the 10th grade, I was in English class and the kid two seats in front of me, who I really didn't know, had a Born Again tour shirt that I could see through his white dress shirt.
Anyway, I started a conversation with him about it, and we became really good friends. In fact he's the only person from high school that am still in contact with. (He's the same guy that had Rik Emmet sing at his wedding.)
I also went to a private Catholic High School (which apparently is currently the #1 ranked HS football team in the country). We had to wear collared shirts, but they could be any color (or striped). My friends and I always had the baseball sleeve style concert shirts under our collared shirts (which got peeled off pretty much as soon as the school day was done). A lot of our lunch time was spent avoiding the deans who didn't think our sleeves were consistent with the dress code.
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Born Again is 41:04 which is pretty average length for the time period. Most albums (with some progressive bands being the exception) tried to keep LP sides down around 20 min per side, because sound quality was compromised if you pushed it past 22 or so.
I believe it was Iron Maiden who was one of the first wildly popular bands from the 80s who pushed for the technology to get LP sides up to 25 minutes without compromising sound quality.
Up until then, it wasn’t uncommon to have some LP sides to be in the teens. (See Rush’s AFTK-PEW run)
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Born Again is 41:04 which is pretty average length for the time period.
Yes, I'm aware of this, Fogey. ;D
Heaven & Hell is only 40 minutes, but at least it still feels like a complete album. Born Again never felt complete to me, like it was thrown together. 2 of the 9 tracks are interludes.
I always considered Born Again a huge missed opportunity. I don't know how much time was spent writing the album, but it feels like it was thrown together on a weekend.
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If you bought the deluxe edition, like I did, you'd have the show from Reading 1983. It's a BBC recording and it sounds good.
This is the edition I have:
https://www.discogs.com/release/8120133-Black-Sabbath-Born-Again
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If you bought the deluxe edition, like I did, you'd have the show from Reading 1983. It's a BBC recording and it sounds good.
This is the edition I have:
https://www.discogs.com/release/8120133-Black-Sabbath-Born-Again
I would never buy that. I already have the CD.
Besides, there's no way that's the complete Reading show.
I have the SB Worcester show, and that's barely 70 minutes.
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If you bought the deluxe edition, like I did, you'd have the show from Reading 1983. It's a BBC recording and it sounds good.
This is the edition I have:
https://www.discogs.com/release/8120133-Black-Sabbath-Born-Again
I'll see what this remix has. Never looked into these editions much
Born Again is 41:04 which is pretty average length for the time period.
Yes, I'm aware of this, Fogey. ;D
Heaven & Hell is only 40 minutes, but at least it still feels like a complete album. Born Again never felt complete to me, like it was thrown together. 2 of the 9 tracks are interludes.
I always considered Born Again a huge missed opportunity. I don't know how much time was spent writing the album, but it feels like it was thrown together on a weekend.
I can kind of understand that.
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If you bought the deluxe edition, like I did, you'd have the show from Reading 1983. It's a BBC recording and it sounds good.
This is the edition I have:
https://www.discogs.com/release/8120133-Black-Sabbath-Born-Again
I'll see what this remix has. Never looked into these editions much
Not a remix. Just a remaster. A remix is not possible without the original master tapes which Iommi just now found. If he follows through on his promise, it would be the first remix of the album.
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If you bought the deluxe edition, like I did, you'd have the show from Reading 1983. It's a BBC recording and it sounds good.
This is the edition I have:
https://www.discogs.com/release/8120133-Black-Sabbath-Born-Again
I'll see what this remix has. Never looked into these editions much
Not a remix. Just a remaster. A remix is not possible without the original master tapes which Iommi just now found. If he follows through on his promise, it would be the first remix of the album.
Sorry, I meant the upcoming remix if it eventuates. I know these ones are remasters, that's why I skipped them. The editions I have are good enough.
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I was a late to the party Sabbath collector. My copies of Born Again and Eternal Idol were the deluxe editions to begin with. I did have Mob Rules, but I waited for a deal on the deluxe so I could snag the Dio Hammersmith show.
Otherwise, I have the original Black Box for the Ozzy recordings and The Rules Of Hell box for the Dio stuff.
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Reign In Blood is just over 28 minutes.
Master of Reality: 34:29, and if you ditch the instrumentals, we're at like 32 and a half.
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Not to get on my old geezer soapbox but let’s face it; most albums have no business being over 45 minutes. The 75-80 minute album is a new phenomenon thanks to streaming where bands don’t really need to self-edit anymore, $ is based on streams so the financial incentive is for MORE songs, and the album format (as an art form) has suffered for it.
~40 minutes is perfect for a metal album
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Not to get on my old geezer soapbox but let’s face it; most albums have no business being over 45 minutes. The 75-80 minute album is a new phenomenon thanks to streaming where bands don’t really need to self-edit anymore, $ is based on streams so the financial incentive is for MORE songs, and the album format (as an art form) has suffered for it.
~40 minutes is perfect for a metal album
Albeit there's some tasty exceptions particularly so in the prog genre, I would otherwise concur with this 100% :tup
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Just chiming in to sat that I'm on Tim's side here. Born Again is one of those albums that I condense down to four or five songs. When he said it was a glorified EP I thought to myself "I'll be damned, that's exactly how I've always thought of it."
Also, Reign in blood was a bunch of songs. They were just short, but they were varied.
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https://youtu.be/_-gy9Cjv8rw
New Tony Martin song. Surprisingly bloody excellent. A shame there's no solo but good stuff.
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This came up on my Youtube feed tonight
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pX2aOie0Fys
Pretty glorious footage if you ask me.
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https://youtu.be/_-gy9Cjv8rw
New Tony Martin song. Surprisingly bloody excellent. A shame there's no solo but good stuff.
Have not heard it yet, but I have had the album pre-ordered for a while now. Really looking forward to this one.
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Wow, Tony Martin sure gets some love around here.
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https://youtu.be/_-gy9Cjv8rw
New Tony Martin song. Surprisingly bloody excellent. A shame there's no solo but good stuff.
Have not heard it yet, but I have had the album pre-ordered for a while now. Really looking forward to this one.
Nice. It's heavier than I expected. i have the album pre-ordered too.
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Wow, Tony Martin sure gets some love around here.
Yeah, I was actually a bit shocked the song I posted didn't get a bite. I'll check your link tonight.
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Listened to Thorns today. Man, how does Tony's voice still hold up like it does? The man sounds phenomenal! I really enjoyed the album. The only oddity was This Is Your Damnation. Just out of place with the vibe of the rest of the album. Should have made it like a bonus track or something. It's not terrible, but I think it needs to grow on me a bit. Maybe outside of the rest of the album.
Funny thing, when I put the CD in my PC and had iTunes pull the data, the genre was Easy Listening :lol. I mean, I found it easy to listen to, but, yeah.
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Yeah, the album is generally excellent. I think there were two oddballs in the mix, but other than that it was really good. I may pick it up. It makes you wonder WTF has he been doing all these years.
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Why can't he get this to Spotify (at least in this end of the world it isn't?)... Will be buying on CD if ticks the boxes but YT seems only option to stream (damn the wretched adds)...
Anyway checking it out today Cheers 🤘
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It makes you wonder WTF has he been doing all these years.
I mean, between '99 and '13 he did 3 albums with Dario Mollo and 3 albums with Aldo Giuntini. I have all 6 and they are pretty good. Other than that, he's just been a hired gun guest on songs all over the place.
I'd love for Iommi and Geezer to team up with him, but I doubt it. Tony is still struggling to get the Martin era albums reissued.
EDIT: I forgot to mention an oddity in the booklet that I noticed. Danny Needham plays drums on the album, but is not credited at all. He does have the next largest 'thank you' block after Tony. So he thanked a ton of people and somehow got no credit for his instrument. Found that weird.
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Listened to Thorns today. Man, how does Tony's voice still hold up like it does? The man sounds phenomenal! I really enjoyed the album. The only oddity was This Is Your Damnation. Just out of place with the vibe of the rest of the album. Should have made it like a bonus track or something. It's not terrible, but I think it needs to grow on me a bit. Maybe outside of the rest of the album.
Funny thing, when I put the CD in my PC and had iTunes pull the data, the genre was Easy Listening :lol. I mean, I found it easy to listen to, but, yeah.
There's an American singer named Tony Martin from the '40s and '50s.
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Listened to Thorns today. Man, how does Tony's voice still hold up like it does? The man sounds phenomenal! I really enjoyed the album. The only oddity was This Is Your Damnation. Just out of place with the vibe of the rest of the album. Should have made it like a bonus track or something. It's not terrible, but I think it needs to grow on me a bit. Maybe outside of the rest of the album.
Funny thing, when I put the CD in my PC and had iTunes pull the data, the genre was Easy Listening :lol. I mean, I found it easy to listen to, but, yeah.
There's an American singer named Tony Martin from the '40s and '50s.
When Thorns came to the end when I was listening yesterday, Spotify put him on next.
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I just listened; I dug that. It didn't blow me away, like some of his work with Sabbath, but it was good. He certainly hasn't lost anything vocally.
I'd really, really like another Tony Martin Sabbath album.
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They reformed as Heaven and Hell with Dio. Reform as Headless Cross with Tony.
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They reformed as Heaven and Hell with Dio. Reform as Headless Cross with Tony.
:lol
That's a good idea.
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They reformed as Heaven and Hell with Dio. Reform as Headless Cross with Tony.
:lol
That's a good idea.
I'd take that. I don't care what the name is; I just enjoy those albums very much (though, against the general consensus, Forbidden is one of my favorites).
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Yeah, I'd absolutely love that too.
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The new Tony Martin is a great record. He sounds amazing, like he could just go out and nail Headless Cross, which is fantastic to hear. :metal
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The new Tony Martin is a great record. He sounds amazing, like he could just go out and nail Headless Cross, which is fantastic to hear. :metal
I was having the same thought when listening to it. I was thinking he could still nail that song as well. The dude is going to turn 65 soon and still has pipes like that. Amazing.
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Listened to Thorns today. Man, how does Tony's voice still hold up like it does? The man sounds phenomenal! I really enjoyed the album. The only oddity was This Is Your Damnation. Just out of place with the vibe of the rest of the album. Should have made it like a bonus track or something. It's not terrible, but I think it needs to grow on me a bit. Maybe outside of the rest of the album.
Funny thing, when I put the CD in my PC and had iTunes pull the data, the genre was Easy Listening :lol. I mean, I found it easy to listen to, but, yeah.
There's an American singer named Tony Martin from the '40s and '50s.
When Thorns came to the end when I was listening yesterday, Spotify put him on next.
Thorns is part of the Amazon AutoRip thing so it got added to my digital library. The artist picture is of the other Tony Martin. I can't change it and it drives me nuts.
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They reformed as Heaven and Hell with Dio. Reform as Headless Cross with Tony.
Martin actually started a band called Headless Cross and announced a tour through the US shortly after the Heaven & Hell thing. The cities were weird. One was in Oklahoma. A friend of mine who is not into heavy metal at all like to go traveling to weird places so we planned on going to the Oklahoma date since we'd never been there. I looked up the "venue" which was like some sort of county fairgrounds. Outdoors too. I began to have a bad feeling. Sure enough, within a couple weeks the tour was canceled and Martin was like, "Yeah a booking agent contacted me and convinced me to do it but he was full of shit."
He did have some shows throughout England though.
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County fairs are a thing, or at least they were before Covid. Around here, some of the bigger county fairs have had acts like Kansas, Heart, and others. If I saw an act I wanted to see playing a county fair, I might even go. I don't do concerts, but fairs are cool.
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County fairs are a thing, or at least they were before Covid. Around here, some of the bigger county fairs have had acts like Kansas, Heart, and others. If I saw an act I wanted to see playing a county fair, I might even go. I don't do concerts, but fairs are cool.
We have the Big E here in Massachusetts, which is just a northeast version of a county fair (even down to the livestock). I've seen some good bands there, and if you play your cards right, you can see them for free (albeit from far back).
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County fairs are a thing, or at least they were before Covid. Around here, some of the bigger county fairs have had acts like Kansas, Heart, and others. If I saw an act I wanted to see playing a county fair, I might even go. I don't do concerts, but fairs are cool.
We have the Big E here in Massachusetts, which is just a northeast version of a county fair (even down to the livestock). I've seen some good bands there, and if you play your cards right, you can see them for free (albeit from far back).
Our county fair is a big thing too. Alice Cooper and Def Leppard have played there along with a ton of country acts.
This was not to be at the fair. Simply the fairgrounds. And this did not appear to be a significant county fairgrounds either. I also doubt Tony Martin is very big in Oklahoma.
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In that case, it sounds like a weird-ass gig. Playing a non-venue in a place where he doesn't really have a fanbase?
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From Tony Martin's FB, a post from the man himself:
'So i got a call from Tony Iommi's manager ... it seems there is now a record deal for my era of Sabbath albums !!!.... so It looks like a re-issue is actually going to happen!!! 🙂 There could be a LOT of "Tony Martin" around this year! .... Sorry about that!'
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Sounds good to me. :metal
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I think I read something from Tony Martin that somewhere along the lines, Black Sabbath, contractually became Tony/Ozzy/Geezer/Bill. That limits what can be done with the Tony Martin records.
They can re-issue the records and attach any bonus material that was recorded at the time those records were originally released, but they can't attach any brand new material written currently and release it as Black Sabbath.
Either way - I'd love to see some reissues of those albums!
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Yeah, that's why they had to call that Dio reunion Heaven and Hell - Once they did the Reunion with Ozzy, they had to give him a chunk of the Sabbath name. effectively stopped them from working with any other vocalist ever again. I don't know why Iommi did it, but he sold his soul to Sharon there.
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Yeah, that's why they had to call that Dio reunion Heaven and Hell - Once they did the Reunion with Ozzy, they had to give him a chunk of the Sabbath name. effectively stopped them from working with any other vocalist ever again. I don't know why Iommi did it, but he sold his soul to Sharon there.
While that was the general consensus, I remember reading on Black-sabbath.com, a fan site made by someone who knows more about the band than the band themselves, that in reality it was their own free decision to go the "Heaven and Hell" route, both to avoid the headaches and be free of having to play Paranoid, Iron Man and the likes - at that time Tony Iommi was still the sole owner of the Black Sabbath name, he probably relinquished some rights with the 2011 reunion.
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Yeah, that's why they had to call that Dio reunion Heaven and Hell - Once they did the Reunion with Ozzy, they had to give him a chunk of the Sabbath name. effectively stopped them from working with any other vocalist ever again. I don't know why Iommi did it, but he sold his soul to Sharon there.
While that was the general consensus, I remember reading on Black-sabbath.com, a fan site made by someone who knows more about the band than the band themselves, that in reality it was their own free decision to go the "Heaven and Hell" route, both to avoid the headaches and be free of having to play Paranoid, Iron Man and the likes - at that time Tony Iommi was still the sole owner of the Black Sabbath name, he probably relinquished some rights with the 2011 reunion.
This is likely correct on both accounts, and certainly regarding Heaven and Hell. Heaven and Hell was just a way to get out of the expectation of having to play the Ozzy-era songs.
I think any changes surrounding the ownership of the Sabbath name happened when Sharon and Ozzy sued Tony for the rights to the name around the time of the reunion. He may have had to make some concessions to them, which limit what can be put out in the future as Black Sabbath.
So it's pretty likely that we'll see Tony Martin re-issues, but they can't attach any brand new material.
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Yeah, that's why they had to call that Dio reunion Heaven and Hell - Once they did the Reunion with Ozzy, they had to give him a chunk of the Sabbath name. effectively stopped them from working with any other vocalist ever again. I don't know why Iommi did it, but he sold his soul to Sharon there.
While that was the general consensus, I remember reading on Black-sabbath.com, a fan site made by someone who knows more about the band than the band themselves, that in reality it was their own free decision to go the "Heaven and Hell" route, both to avoid the headaches and be free of having to play Paranoid, Iron Man and the likes - at that time Tony Iommi was still the sole owner of the Black Sabbath name, he probably relinquished some rights with the 2011 reunion.
The guy you are referring to is Joe Siegler. He has contact with Iommi via his manager and Geezer Butler. He even send a wish list of bonus stuff for the re-issues to Iommi and hopefully if that material is available, the bonus stuff should be pretty decent.
I also remember Tony M posting on FB that he had been to Iommi's residence/studio to do some recording for the re-issues.
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I mean if they wanted to they could get around the legality with the name really enough. Just say that any new song is from the band "headless Cross" or something.
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I mean if they wanted to they could get around the legality with the name really enough. Just say that any new song is from the band "headless Cross" or something.
Makes me remember when the three new Dio / Iommi songs came out in the compilation "Black Sabbath - The Dio Years", from the same lineup that toured as Heaven and Hell.
The Devil Cried, Shadow of the Wind and Era in the Wall are on a Black Sabbath (compilation) album and therefore are Black Sabbath songs, but everyone associates them with the "Heaven and Hell" entity anyway.
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I mean if they wanted to they could get around the legality with the name really enough. Just say that any new song is from the band "headless Cross" or something.
It would have to be on a separate EP. If they attach new songs to a reissue of a Black Sabbath album, then they would be Black Sabbath songs.
The new songs from the Dio Years compilation all came out prior to any changes involving the ownership of the Black Sabbath name. Tony was free to do as he wanted in 2007.
https://www.blabbermouth.net/news/tony-martin-says-record-deal-has-been-secured-for-reissues-of-albums-he-recorded-with-black-sabbath/
Earlier in the month, Martin discussed the possibility of the LPs from his era of SABBATH being reissued in an interview with Canada's The Metal Voice. At the time, he said (as transcribed by BLABBERMOUTH.NET): "We had a guy in BLACK SABBATH called Geoff Nicholls. He was the keyboard player. He died four years ago. And when we [were] at Geoff Nicholls's funeral service, I bumped into Tony Iommi there, and he said, 'I've got loads of stuff to play you. And we have to get together and see if we can write some new songs. And then maybe we can re-release the Tony Martin-era albums.' And I thought, 'Well, that's cool. Okay. Whatever.' Then the phone went dead for ages — months and months and months and months. So I called him back and he said, 'Come over to the house and we'll talk about it.' So I said, 'Okay.' So I went to his house and he said, 'We can't do it.' And I went, 'What?' He said, 'We can't do it.' I said, 'Why not?' He said because there's an agreement with the guys of SABBATH that they can only release something [new] under the SABBATH name if it's the original SABBATH members. Nobody else can record anything [new] under the SABBATH name…. What he said was what we can do is reissue the albums. We can't add anything to it. So what we're expecting, if he ever gets around to it, is for the Tony Martin-era albums, apart from 'Eternal Idol', 'cause that's owned by someone else, to be reissued. Remixed probably in the case of 'Forbidden', but I think it'll just be as it was… [We can add] only stuff that's already been recorded at the time."
According to Martin, he has already found loads of recordings in his personal collection that would be perfect for inclusion on proposed issues of the SABBATH albums from his era of the band.
"I've searched through… I've got hundreds of tapes — things from the writing sessions," he said. "I've got the tapes when Eddie Van Halen was with us writing on 'Cross Purposes'. I sent that over to Tony. That appeared on YouTube; I don't know how that got out. But I've got all sorts of stuff like that. And I thought that was the kind of thing that they would reissue the albums with. But I have no idea. You probably know more than me."
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Yeah, that's why they had to call that Dio reunion Heaven and Hell - Once they did the Reunion with Ozzy, they had to give him a chunk of the Sabbath name. effectively stopped them from working with any other vocalist ever again. I don't know why Iommi did it, but he sold his soul to Sharon there.
While that was the general consensus, I remember reading on Black-sabbath.com, a fan site made by someone who knows more about the band than the band themselves, that in reality it was their own free decision to go the "Heaven and Hell" route, both to avoid the headaches and be free of having to play Paranoid, Iron Man and the likes - at that time Tony Iommi was still the sole owner of the Black Sabbath name, he probably relinquished some rights with the 2011 reunion.
Joe Seigler or something like that. That's my understanding as well.
EDIT: TWICE now I've been ninja'd by Gazinwales in a thread (the "Live Bullshit" thread is the other).
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https://www.blabbermouth.net/news/tony-martin-says-record-deal-has-been-secured-for-reissues-of-albums-he-recorded-with-black-sabbath/
He said because there's an agreement with the guys of SABBATH that they can only release something [new] under the SABBATH name if it's the original SABBATH members. Nobody else can record anything [new] under the SABBATH name….
So hold on a second - if this is true, then why was "Black Sabbath" able to do 13 without any involvement from Bill Ward? Was this agreement made just when the idea of doing new Black Sabbath material with Tony Martin came up?
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So hold on a second - if this is true, then why was "Black Sabbath" able to do 13 without any involvement from Bill Ward? Was this agreement made just when the idea of doing new Black Sabbath material with Tony Martin came up?
I have no idea, I'm only going on what I read from Tony Martin that I quoted above. The Ozzy vs Iommi lawsuit over the Sabbath name was settled in 2010, before the 2011 reunion. If I remember right, the Bill Ward situation was about money - he wanted more money than they (Sharon) wanted to pay him, and he wouldn't sign the contract that he was given.
So basically, Sharon and Ozzy have some control over what happens within Black Sabbath now as opposed to it having always been Tony's band through the 80's, 90's and 00's. I would imagine that was a concession in the settlement with Ozzy. Give the Osbournes some rights, and they can dictate what is or isn't Black Sabbath after a final album and tour with Ozzy.
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https://www.blabbermouth.net/news/tony-martin-says-record-deal-has-been-secured-for-reissues-of-albums-he-recorded-with-black-sabbath/
He said because there's an agreement with the guys of SABBATH that they can only release something [new] under the SABBATH name if it's the original SABBATH members. Nobody else can record anything [new] under the SABBATH name….
So hold on a second - if this is true, then why was "Black Sabbath" able to do 13 without any involvement from Bill Ward? Was this agreement made just when the idea of doing new Black Sabbath material with Tony Martin came up?
I had heard that the agreement was actually just between Ozzy and Tony, so they own it 50/50. That doesn't make sense to me, though, because Geezer is a part of the "current" Sabbath and Gloria, his wife and manager, was an active part of a lot of the Sabbath business. Purely speculation, but I wonder if that ownership stake (or lack thereof) was a part of that "unsignable contract" thing that Bill kept talking about.
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I mean if they wanted to they could get around the legality with the name really enough. Just say that any new song is from the band "headless Cross" or something.
The bottom line here is, we don't really know, this is all; hearsay, speculation, I heard, I read, I thought, etc
TM mentioned yesterday on FB that he thinks the release will be a box set only, which opens up the possibility of a bonus disc under a different moniker to Black Sabbath.
Which could be almost anything, 'Headless Cross Sessions' 'Iommi and Martin Outtakes' etc...
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I mean if they wanted to they could get around the legality with the name really enough. Just say that any new song is from the band "headless Cross" or something.
The bottom line here is, we don't really know, this is all; hearsay, speculation, I heard, I read, I thought, etc
TM mentioned yesterday on FB that he thinks the release will be a box set only, which opens up the possibility of a bonus disc under a different moniker to Black Sabbath.
Which could be almost anything, 'Headless Cross Sessions' 'Iommi and Martin Outtakes' etc...
I'm buying that. As long as the b-sides and live tracks are on there, I'm full in.
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I mean if they wanted to they could get around the legality with the name really enough. Just say that any new song is from the band "headless Cross" or something.
The bottom line here is, we don't really know, this is all; hearsay, speculation, I heard, I read, I thought, etc
TM mentioned yesterday on FB that he thinks the release will be a box set only, which opens up the possibility of a bonus disc under a different moniker to Black Sabbath.
Which could be almost anything, 'Headless Cross Sessions' 'Iommi and Martin Outtakes' etc...
I'm buying that. As long as the b-sides and live tracks are on there, I'm full in.
Absolutely.
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In that case, it sounds like a weird-ass gig. Playing a non-venue in a place where he doesn't really have a fanbase?
Hence the whole tour being canceled about a month after it was announced. I don't remember any other venues but I can't imagine they were much more legit.
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Happy Birthday to the man who changed the face of guitar playing, Tony Iommi 74 years young today.
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OZZY OSBOURNE Announces New Album “Patient Number 9,” Music Video for Title Track Available
https://www.sonicperspectives.com/news/ozzy-osbourne-announces-new-album-patient-number-9/
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That was possibly the most "meh" thing I've heard in a long time.
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As much as I look at Sabbath as Ozzy, I do love the Dio era. Currently loving Seventh Star and Eternal Idol, Glenn is amazing on Seventh Star and I think Eternal Idol is the best Tony Martin era album. Bottom line comparing songs from these eras is not practical at all as the styles are so different. If there was a countdown I think it should be 2 parts. 1) Ozzy/Dio 2) Tony Martin/ Glenn Hughes/ Ian Gillan. Thoughts?????
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As much as I look at Sabbath as Ozzy, I do love the Dio era. Currently loving Seventh Star and Eternal Idol, Glenn is amazing on Seventh Star and I think Eternal Idol is the best Tony Martin era album. Bottom line comparing songs from these eras is not practical at all as the styles are so different. If there was a countdown I think it should be 2 parts. 1) Ozzy/Dio 2) Tony Martin/ Glenn Hughes (might as well toss Seventh Star in with Tony era). Thoughts?????
I can see where you are coming from, but I've looked at Sabbath as a whole, from start to finish. Sabbath has always been Iommi and his unmistakable guitar tone and playing make each Sabbath album a Sabbath album for me. They just progressed through the eras like as any other band.
I think the thing is, we've seen the Blaze stuff get quite shafted in the current Maiden countdown, I think everything that's not Dio or Ozzy will get just as shunted or even more so. I know there's a few of us that like the Martin stuff so might be surprised depending on how many participate.
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Dio would have been 80 today :hefdaddy
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:metal :hefdaddy
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Dio would have been 80 today :hefdaddy
:heart :heart :metal :metal
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So I decided I'd make a Black Sabbath Top 50 list across all eras.
I have nominated songs 58 songs:
Ozzy-24
Dio-18
Gillan-3
Hughes-2
Martin-11
This is going to be tough.
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So I decided I'd make a Black Sabbath Top 50 list across all eras.
I have nominated songs 62 songs:
Ozzy-28
Dio-18
Gillan-3
Hughes-2
Martin-11
This is going to be tough.
WOW! Totally discounted Born Again. Great songs, atrocious recording. Gillan is amazing.
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Born Again is fucking incredible. A couple of songs from it would make my list too.
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Born Again is fucking incredible. A couple of songs from it would make my list too.
What an album :metal
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Just ran the ranker. Gotta make an adjustment or two.
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I'd be intrigued on the splits I'd end up with also. Not sure I'll bother doing it unless we are doing a countdown though.
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I guess I got too curious myself, and since we were all kind of talking about, I figured I'd bang it out.
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I might next weekend if I get some time. I am kinda curious.
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Today would have been Dio's 80th birthday, and I did an interview with Vinnie Appice to discuss his legacy. There are tons of Sabbath information throughout the interview. Hope you like it:
https://www.sonicperspectives.com/interviews/interview-with-vinnie-appice/
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Final Breakdown:
Ozzy-21
Dio-16
Gillan-3
Hughes-2
Martin-8
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Born Again is fucking incredible. A couple of songs from it would make my list too.
Trashed, Digital Bitch, Disturbing The Priest.
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Born Again is fucking incredible. A couple of songs from it would make my list too.
Trashed, Digital Bitch, Disturbing The Priest.
Disturbing The Priest, Zero The Hero, and Born Again made it.
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Born Again is fucking incredible. A couple of songs from it would make my list too.
Trashed, Digital Bitch, Disturbing The Priest.
Disturbing The Priest, Zero The Hero, and Born Again made it.
Iommi says he's going to remix it. That would be great. Its too shrieky.
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Disturbing The Priest made my Black Sabbath Top 10, but that album is way short on material IMO.
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No way, Born again is outstanding :metal
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No way, Born again is outstanding :metal
Yeah, an outstanding EP.
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:lol
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Born Again is fucking incredible. A couple of songs from it would make my list too.
Trashed, Digital Bitch, Disturbing The Priest.
Disturbing The Priest, Zero The Hero, and Born Again made it.
Possibly the same 3 for me just eyeballing. The title track would do well for me.
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Born Again is fucking incredible. A couple of songs from it would make my list too.
I'm a big fan of that album too (though I agree that in modern terms, it's an EP).
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Born Again is fucking incredible. A couple of songs from it would make my list too.
I'm a big fan of that album too (though I agree that in modern terms, it's an EP).
Couldn't most albums of that time be considered an EP then?
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Born Again is fucking incredible. A couple of songs from it would make my list too.
I'm a big fan of that album too (though I agree that in modern terms, it's an EP).
Um… in 1983 it was an EP.
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Born again is longer than most KISS, Aerosmith and Gentle Giant albums from the previous decade. 40 minutes was still a normal length album in the 80s as far as I know. It might only have seven song when you exclude the instrumentals, but then again, so does Moving pictures and it's not an EP.
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Born again is longer than most KISS, Aerosmith and Gentle Giant albums from the previous decade. 40 minutes was still a normal length album in the 80s as far as I know. It might only have seven song when you exclude the instrumentals, but then again, so does Moving pictures and it's not an EP.
It definitely is longer than the early Kiss records, or the Van Halen records, as well. Even without the instrumentals, it's still 38:05. Hell, compare it to Masters of Reality, which is 34+ minutes long, with two instrumentals, and 32:30 without them. THAT'S even shorter. So it's not about "time" necessarily; it just FEELS like an EP. It feels a little dashed off. And that's not to say I don't like it; it's actually one of my favorite Sabbath records, but it is what it is.
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Born Again is fucking incredible. A couple of songs from it would make my list too.
I'm a big fan of that album too (though I agree that in modern terms, it's an EP).
Couldn't most albums of that time be considered an EP then?
Born Again: 40:43
Van Halen: 35:34
Van Halen II: 31:36
Women and Children First: 33:35
Fair Warning: 31:11
Diver Down: 31:04
Total: 163:00 (146:15 if you don't include cover songs)
Every album in Rush's run from the debut through Moving Pictures (except for Caress of Steel) was also shorter than Born Again.
Born again is longer than most KISS, Aerosmith and Gentle Giant albums from the previous decade. 40 minutes was still a normal length album in the 80s as far as I know.
Yup. 20 minutes (give or take) per album side was standard.
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I just remastered Born Again from the original release. It sounds better but not incredible. I only did the 7 songs leaving off Stonehenge and The Dark which are pointless and its still 38 minutes. The songs are excellent!
Most 80's albums were under 45 minutes. I remember making tapes from my records to play in the car or my walkman and a 90 minute tape was able to hold an album on each side. Not every album but most.
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Guys, I am well aware of the time lengths of all of the albums listed. I am a Fogey, remember.
I am mostly talking about the quality of the tunes on Born Again, which I think is kind of an iffy album at best. Feels thrown together. Such a wasted opportunity.
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Guys, I am well aware of the time lengths of all of the albums listed. I am a Fogey, remember.
I am mostly talking about the quality of the tunes on Born Again, which I think is kind of an iffy album at best. Feels thrown together. Such a wasted opportunity.
I said the same thing. I think you and I are in the same boat here. I think I like it more than you do, though.
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I remember making tapes from my records to play in the car or my walkman and a 90 minute tape was able to hold an album on each side. Not every album but most.
I remember having to split Suite Sister Mary between two sides in order to get Operation: Mindcrime to fit on a 60-minute cassette. Fortunately, I had a tape deck that allowed me to fade out and fade in so that it sounded somewhat professional.
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I remember making tapes from my records to play in the car or my walkman and a 90 minute tape was able to hold an album on each side. Not every album but most.
I remember having to split Suite Sister Mary between two sides in order to get Operation: Mindcrime to fit on a 60-minute cassette. Fortunately, I had a tape deck that allowed me to fade out and fade in so that it sounded somewhat professional.
Dude! That is classic shit! Ive been there but it would stop abruptly and restart on the other side. The struggle was real but we made it work!!!! :metal :lol
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To this day, I still half expect the fade-out when listening to that song. :lol
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To this day, I still half expect the fade-out when listening to that song. :lol
Of course you would, I totally get it. I taped Diary of A Madman from my LP that skipped on the guitar solo of Over The Mountain and to this day I'm used to the solo missing a note and it didn't sound right for a while when I got the CD. :lol
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So, I have talked about missing out on the Tony Martin Era in real time. I just thought it was a complete joke to call the band Black Sabbath, and I took it as an insult as a fan.
After the very mediocre Born Again, which I consider nothing more than a glorified EP with two good songs and a couple more OK ones, "Black Sabbath" released Seventh Star with Glenn Hughes on vocals.
I bought it when it came out, but I didn't think it was very good, and I felt ripped off.
I actually listened to Seventh Star this week, and yup...it still kind of blows.
So when "Black Sabbath" emerged with yet a third vocalist in as many albums since Dio left, I ignored it. At least I was familiar with Glenn Hughes.
And that's why I never gave the Tony Martin Era a chance.
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So, I have talked about missing out on the Tony Martin Era in real time. I just thought it was a complete joke to call the band Black Sabbath, and I took it as an insult as a fan.
After the very mediocre Born Again, which I consider nothing more than a glorified EP with two good songs and a couple more OK ones, "Black Sabbath" released Seventh Star with Glenn Hughes on vocals.
I bought it when it came out, but I didn't think it was very good, and I felt ripped off.
I actually listened to Seventh Star this week, and yup...it still kind of blows.
So when "Black Sabbath" emerged with yet a third vocalist in as many albums since Dio left, I ignored it. At least I was familiar with Glenn Hughes.
And that's why I never gave the Tony Martin Era a chance.
So, yeah. You fucked up. Is there a point to your post?
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Well, I guess that I came to realize that the sucky Seventh Star really impacted how I viewed the next “Black Sabbath”. It wasn’t just a straight out dismissal of the Martin Era on its face, but more of a culmination of how I felt about the two previous albums.
Just musing.
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But why didn't you at least give Eternal Idol a chance when it came out?
Seventh Star would have worked much better if the record company let Tony have it as a solo album like he wanted.
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Seventh Star would have worked much better if the record company let Tony have it as a solo album like he wanted.
Exactly. Seventh Star sucks as a Black Sabbath album because it was never meant to be a Sabbath album.
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I hated it at first, but it grew on me over time. There's a few killer tunes on there. Danger Zone particularly.
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Seventh Star would have worked much better if the record company let Tony have it as a solo album like he wanted.
Exactly. Seventh Star sucks as a Black Sabbath album because it was never meant to be a Sabbath album.
It kind of sucks whatever name it would be under.
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You say Born Again feels like an EP but Seventh Star always felt that way to me. It's kind of only really 7 songs and most are very short.
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Yeah and I know albums were shorter back then. But in real time I thought Born Again felt so incomplete. Like they rushed it.
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Seventh star is so middle-of-the-road to me that even a different name on the cover wouldn't have made it better. I would have listened to it in different context, but I still wouldn't find the songs to be better.
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I've always liked Seventh Star, despite the rather dated 1980's sound/production is sounds great and even a massively f***ed up Glenn Hughes sounds amazing :hefdaddy
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But why didn't you at least give Eternal Idol a chance when it came out?
I sort of felt the same as Tim about the parade of vocalists post-Dio, along with the departure of Geezer Butler. However, The Shining got a bunch of radio play, and I loved it (still do), so I bought the album. I think Ancient Warrior is the only other song even remotely worth listening to (although I haven't listened to anything other than The Shining in years).
After that, I was done. When Tyr was released, my friends and I joked that they should have called it "Tyred" (even though I don't think any of us had heard a single note from it).
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Headless Cross, Anno Mundi, The Shining, maybe one or two from Cross Purposes - those are all top-tier Sabbath songs. Great riffs and vocals.
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Cross Purposes is great from beginning to end. Love that album.
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But why didn't you at least give Eternal Idol a chance when it came out?
I sort of felt the same as Tim about the parade of vocalists post-Dio, along with the departure of Geezer Butler. However, The Shining got a bunch of radio play, and I loved it (still do), so I bought the album. I think Ancient Warrior is the only other song even remotely worth listening to (although I haven't listened to anything other than The Shining in years).
After that, I was done. When Tyr was released, my friends and I joked that they should have called it "Tyred" (even though I don't think any of us had heard a single note from it).
Wow! I find TYR quality from start to finish and Headless Cross made my top 50.
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Like I said, we were mocking out of ignorance (I think I was 22 when it came out). :)
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Yeah fair enough. Perhaps the lack of popularity during that period was pure stubornness from hard core fans not even giving these albums a chance.
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I like Seventh Star and absolutely love Eternal Idol. I just don't view them as "Black Sabbath". When Seventh Star came out I had zero expectations and enjoyed it but Eternal Idol is a classic to me. The Tony Martin stuff is absolutely amazing but once again, I just don't compare them to old Sabbath that I grew up on. Sabbath IS Ozzy, after that it was " Dio Sabbath" which I like too but Black Sabbath will ALWAYS be Ozzy to me.
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I discovered Sabbath pretty much as a whole after the fact. To me Sabbath is Iommi.
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I've come to really appreciate Seventh Star. I used to have a bug up my ass about Glenn Hughes for ruining Deep Purple (his "funky" singing was no bueno to me at all then, and I still don't care for it) but when I later realized he could sing - the Iommi solo record, and Black Country Communion - I went back to 7th Star and it's decent. I love No Stranger To Love, Danger Zone and In Memory.
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I've come to really appreciate Seventh Star. I used to have a bug up my ass about Glenn Hughes for ruining Deep Purple (his "funky" singing was no bueno to me at all then, and I still don't care for it) but when I later realized he could sing - the Iommi solo record, and Black Country Communion - I went back to 7th Star and it's decent. I love No Stranger To Love, Danger Zone and In Memory.
I'm actually reading Glenn Hughes' autobiography right now.
Burn is still the best Deep Purple album. ;D
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I discovered Sabbath pretty much as a whole after the fact. To me Sabbath is Iommi.
Ditto..............I actually think my first (bought) Sabbath album was Tyr , so I associate Martin with Sabbath more than most. I was an Ozzy solo fan long before I was a Sabbath fan.
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I discovered Sabbath pretty much as a whole after the fact. To me Sabbath is Iommi.
Ditto..............I actually think my first (bought) Sabbath album was Tyr , so I associate Martin with Sabbath more than most. I was an Ozzy solo fan long before I was a Sabbath fan.
I'm trying to think which came first, might have been Sabbath for me. I should associate Dio because Dehumanizer and H&H were my first but I fell in love with those Martin albums big time. I did spin the shit of of the old stuff but nothing has had the longevity of the Martin albums for me.
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While I was around during OG Sabbath, I didn't buy my first Sabbath album until Sabatage...of course I bought the back catalog soon after. Then when Heaven and Hell arrived, that's when I went totally bonkers for Sabbath. The Martin/Hughes albums did nothing for me even though I bought them all. Not 'til Dehumanizer came out did I really pay attention again. Sadly that was short lived.
Thus, Sabbadio is my most listened to incarnation. With the possible exception of Sabbath Bloody Sabbath. I think I've listened to it more than any other, in my opinion it's a must have for any rock fan.
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I'm going to go out on a limb here... I love Heaven and Hell, no question, but ON THE WHOLE, I think the Dio incarnation of Sabbath is slightly over-rated.
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I'm going to go out on a limb here... I love Heaven and Hell, no question, but ON THE WHOLE, I think the Dio incarnation of Sabbath is slightly over-rated.
That's not out on a limb to me. I absolutely love the Heaven and Hell album but Sabbath is Ozzy all the way for me.
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I'm going to go out on a limb here... I love Heaven and Hell, no question, but ON THE WHOLE, I think the Dio incarnation of Sabbath is slightly over-rated.
I don't think that's all that controversial.
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I'm going to go out on a limb here... I love Heaven and Hell, no question, but ON THE WHOLE, I think the Dio incarnation of Sabbath is slightly over-rated.
Well, it's really only a two album run, not counting a reunion in 1992 and another 15 years later.
I don't know how that could be all that overrated.
I think kids my age didn't come up on Black Sabbath, and the Dio Era is where we jumped on.
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I love Dio's voice, and the title track from Heaven and Hell, but the rest of the album is largely forgettable for me. Maybe it's the songwriting. If Dio did another album with Sabbath, I must never have picked it up because I thought there was only the one.
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I love Dio's voice, and the title track from Heaven and Hell, but the rest of the album is largely forgettable for me. Maybe it's the songwriting. If Dio did another album with Sabbath, I must never have picked it up because I thought there was only the one.
I love the Heaven And Hell album. The only real dud is Walk Away. It was an early album in my musical discovery and it was very impactful.
Mob Rules was the followup the following year.
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Maybe I should give it another chance. It's been a while. Being an old fogey, I grew up on original Sabbath of course, then came Heaven and Hell. I probably just didn't give it much of a chance, because I know I never picked up Mob Rules or anything after that. I was getting into prog by then, and basically just moved on.
I did check out 13 a few years back, just to see. It was about what I'd expected. Not horrible, but not really exciting either.
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I had We Sold Our Souls For Rock N Roll, and I liked it, but I never considered it awesome.
I like a lot of Ozzy Sabbath but I don't love it or elevate it amongst my favorite bands.
Highlights to me are Sabotage and Sabbath Bloody Sabbath.
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I'm going to go out on a limb here... I love Heaven and Hell, no question, but ON THE WHOLE, I think the Dio incarnation of Sabbath is slightly over-rated.
Well, it's really only a two album run, not counting a reunion in 1992 and another 15 years later.
I don't know how that could be all that overrated.
I think kids my age didn't come up on Black Sabbath, and the Dio Era is where we jumped on.
I think that's actually the exact reason why Bill would think it was somewhat overrated, considering the hype it gets.
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I'm going to go out on a limb here... I love Heaven and Hell, no question, but ON THE WHOLE, I think the Dio incarnation of Sabbath is slightly over-rated.
Well, it's really only a two album run, not counting a reunion in 1992 and another 15 years later.
I don't know how that could be all that overrated.
I think kids my age didn't come up on Black Sabbath, and the Dio Era is where we jumped on.
I think that's actually the exact reason why Bill would think it was somewhat overrated, considering the hype it gets.
I made his point, didn't I? :lol
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:tup :lol
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Nah, not over-rated. Over and Over from Mob Rules is better than the majority of the rest of the catalog. The lyrics, the tasty bass, the moody drums, the vocal melody and performance…but especially Iommi’s guitar work!! Just a perfect metal-blues hybrid.
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Nah, not over-rated. Over and Over from Mob Rules is better than the majority of the rest of the catalog. The lyrics, the tasty bass, the moody drums, the vocal melody and performance…but especially Iommi’s guitar work!! Just a perfect metal-blues hybrid.
This could possibly be their most underrated and overlooked song. It's fucking incredible and definitely a top 5 Iommi song in terms of guitar soloing.
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I knew you would understand, mate.
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I knew you would understand, mate.
For the longest time, I much preferred Lonely is the Word of the two but one day Over and Over just clicked and completely floored me. This year especially I've warmed to it even more. The somber atmosphere and the lyrics also just almost bring a tear to the eye. Could be the best Dio era song for me.
With Iommi's solos, both this and Lonely are two of my favs to jam to. Just beautiful space and a template to improvise over also, love it.
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“Too many flames, with too much to burn
And life’s only made of paper”
Sublime
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Over And Over is indeed a great outro solo, but I've never considered Iommi a great soloist. He's a much better rhythm player IMO.
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Calling the first Dio era overrated doesn't resonate with me because I don't know how it's rated.
As far as I'm concerned, Heaven and Hell and Mob Rules are the two best Sabbath albums. For my money, the first eight Sabbath albums have anywhere between 0-4 songs that I really want to listen to. By contrast, there are no skippers on either H&H or Mob.
My gateway into Sabbath was Ozzy's Speak of the Devil, which I probably bought either shortly before or shortly after Bark at the Moon was released. I didn't become a fan until after Rhoads had died so it wasn't weird to me like I'm sure it was for some others. I went back and bought Paranoid, Sabotage and Never Say Die (and maybe also Master of Reality), but the Speak of the Devil versions are still the definitive versions of all those songs. I guess my point is that, since I didn't really hold any allegiance to the original incarnation of Sabbath, I found myself comparing speak of the Devil against H&H and Mob. They compare favorably, but the rest of the original Sabbath catalog does not, so, while the best of the original Sabbath catalog compares favorably to the first Dio era, the overall original catalog does not. And, I generally like Dehumanizer, but I've never hear The Devil You Know or any of the stuff Ozzy did with Sabbath over the last what...15 years?
Also, WHY THE FUCK does the discography section at the Black Sabbath website only cover Ozzy-era stuff?
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Also, WHY THE FUCK does the discography section at the Black Sabbath website only cover Ozzy-era stuff?
(https://c.tenor.com/czXWTvHYHRAAAAAC/sharon-osbourne-laugh.gif)
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Over And Over is indeed a great outro solo, but I've never considered Iommi a great soloist. He's a much better rhythm player IMO.
He was one of my earliest influences. He's not technically a great soloist but something always resonated with me in terms of his guitar solos. However, I didn't take to much of his soloing outside the Martin era to be honest. Over and Over and Lonely are exceptions but to rattle off a few songs of his that made me a mega fan;
Born to Lose
Glory Ride
Ancient Warrior
Kill in the Spirit World
Jerusalem
Immaculate Deception
The Hand That Rocks the Cradle
Devil and Daughter
So many tasty solos. Always simple in nature but just melodically pleasing. I was also shocked and stunned when I found out When Death Calls is actually Brian May. That would rank as one of my all time fav solos and I'm not even a fan of May or Queen.
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Also, WHY THE FUCK does the discography section at the Black Sabbath website only cover Ozzy-era stuff?
www.black-sabbath.com is a much more complete, better and fan-run website.
And the Dio-era is definitely not overrated. I view the band just like Van Halen. The original singers (Ozzy, DLR) are absolutely iconic, but not the best singers in the world. The second singers in each band (Dio, Hagar) have much better, more melodic voices and really opened up the songwriting to new levels.
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I love Dio's voice, and the title track from Heaven and Hell, but the rest of the album is largely forgettable for me. Maybe it's the songwriting. If Dio did another album with Sabbath, I must never have picked it up because I thought there was only the one.
I love the Heaven And Hell album. The only real dud is Walk Away. It was an early album in my musical discovery and it was very impactful.
Mob Rules was the followup the following year.
LITERALLY my favorite song on the album, but that should surprise NO ONE who reads mine and TACs banter about albums. :) :) :) :)
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Calling the first Dio era overrated doesn't resonate with me because I don't know how it's rated.
As far as I'm concerned, Heaven and Hell and Mob Rules are the two best Sabbath albums. For my money, the first eight Sabbath albums have anywhere between 0-4 songs that I really want to listen to. By contrast, there are no skippers on either H&H or Mob.
My gateway into Sabbath was Ozzy's Speak of the Devil, which I probably bought either shortly before or shortly after Bark at the Moon was released. I didn't become a fan until after Rhoads had died so it wasn't weird to me like I'm sure it was for some others. I went back and bought Paranoid, Sabotage and Never Say Die (and maybe also Master of Reality), but the Speak of the Devil versions are still the definitive versions of all those songs. I guess my point is that, since I didn't really hold any allegiance to the original incarnation of Sabbath, I found myself comparing speak of the Devil against H&H and Mob. They compare favorably, but the rest of the original Sabbath catalog does not, so, while the best of the original Sabbath catalog compares favorably to the first Dio era, the overall original catalog does not. And, I generally like Dehumanizer, but I've never hear The Devil You Know or any of the stuff Ozzy did with Sabbath over the last what...15 years?
Also, WHY THE FUCK does the discography section at the Black Sabbath website only cover Ozzy-era stuff?
Well, for me, it was WSOW(FRnR), then Vol. 4, Paranoid and Sabbath Bloody Sabbath on cassette. To this day, SBS is probably my favorite Sabbath record and Spiral Architect my favorite Sabbath song. I'm not saying that Dio-era Sabbath is BAD; Heaven And Hell is all killer and no filler, for sure. But I think there's more drama and extra-curricular stuff around the Ozzy era that I think has diminished it in the eyes of many. There seems to be a sort of mystique around the Dio era, and the presumption that he's a way better singer (he is, but that's not relevant) that I don't really get 100%.
You either like Ozzy's tone or you don't, I get that, but if you listen to the studio tapes from the new Vol. 4 Deluxe Edition, Ozzy CAN sing, and sing pretty well. They're rehearsing in the studio and he steps up to the mike and even with made up shitty words, it's album quality. The guy nails it.
KEV!!!! WE NEED A SABBATH RANKING! Even if it's just the albums.
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Well, for me, it was WSOW(FRnR), then Vol. 4, Paranoid and Sabbath Bloody Sabbath on cassette.
And I think that makes all the difference in the world. If you're old enough to have experienced the Ozzy era firsthand or got introduced to that material first, then you're likely to have an entirely different point of view. We're seeing similar things in the Fates Warning countdown thread with people who got into the band during the John Arch era or shortly after Ray Alder joined, as opposed to newer fans.
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I am a huge Ozzy fan and a huge Ozzy Sabbath fan. To me the first 6 Sabbath albums are all pretty much equally awesome, just some amazing stuff and I think Ozzy's voice on these albums is also perfect for the music. Ozzy doesn't seem to have that many fans on here and I sometimes wonder if that is because we all associate him with his more recent antics etc then how amazing he was in his prime. At the end of the day, I also get that his tone can be a bit polarising but it really works for me.
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I am a huge Ozzy fan and a huge Ozzy Sabbath fan. To me the first 6 Sabbath albums are all pretty much equally awesome, just some amazing stuff and I think Ozzy's voice on these albums is also perfect for the music. Ozzy doesn't seem to have that many fans on here and I sometimes wonder if that is because we all associate him with his more recent antics etc then how amazing he was in his prime. At the end of the day, I also get that his tone can be a bit polarising but it really works for me.
I love the Ozzy era equally. There are times where I binge the Dio albums and times where I binge the Ozzy stuff. Like I noted above, I think they're different in terms of songwriting - Dio really let Iommi open up and write some different stuff and those records have big, soaring vocals.
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KEV!!!! WE NEED A SABBATH RANKING! Even if it's just the albums.
My songs are already ranked.
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I loved the original Black Sabbath sound. Dark and doomy, and Ozzy's voice worked very well with that. But after Ozzy went solo and was pretty popular for a while, I got really tired of his voice. Just got tired of the same whiny stuff, because let's face it, he doesn't have great range or even expression. Then something horrible happened and I realized I had trouble enjoying the original Sabbath albums because of Ozzy. The music is still great, but then Ozzy starts singing and I realize I just don't want to hear it.
Definitely a first-world problem, but there it is.
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Over And Over is indeed a great outro solo, but I've never considered Iommi a great soloist. He's a much better rhythm player IMO.
He was one of my earliest influences. He's not technically a great soloist but something always resonated with me in terms of his guitar solos. However, I didn't take to much of his soloing outside the Martin era to be honest. Over and Over and Lonely are exceptions but to rattle off a few songs of his that made me a mega fan;
Born to Lose
Glory Ride
Ancient Warrior
Kill in the Spirit World
Jerusalem
Immaculate Deception
The Hand That Rocks the Cradle
Devil and Daughter
So many tasty solos. Always simple in nature but just melodically pleasing. I was also shocked and stunned when I found out When Death Calls is actually Brian May. That would rank as one of my all time fav solos and I'm not even a fan of May or Queen.
Always loved the Ancient Warrior solo. It's got a wonderful, Gilmouresque quality to it.
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Sabbath ranking?! Oh yes please!
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KEV!!!! WE NEED A SABBATH RANKING! Even if it's just the albums.
I could possibly be talked into doing the albums...maybe. :P
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KEV!!!! WE NEED A SABBATH RANKING! Even if it's just the albums.
I could possibly be talked into doing the albums...maybe. :P
Well, since the albums have songs, do songs instead. ;D
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Nah, that would take too long. Besides, the backlog of ideas is already getting long, so it's not like this is happening any time soon.
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A backlog of ideas? Any good ones?
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Top 100 favorite moments on Promised Land is on deck after I finish the favorite singers countdown.
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Top 100 favorite moments on Promised Land is on deck after I finish the favorite singers countdown.
:rollin
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Top 100 favorite moments on Promised Land is on deck after I finish the favorite singers countdown.
I'll be disconnected from that one.
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Top 100 favorite moments on Promised Land is on deck after I finish the favorite singers countdown.
I'll be disconnected from that one.
So TAC is out then. Someone Else?
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Top 100 favorite moments on Promised Land is on deck after I finish the favorite singers countdown.
I'm sorry could you say that one more time? 100 fav moments? I will be damaged and totally out of mind if I participated in that one!
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I pulled up Heaven and Hell and gave it another spin this morning. Much better than I remembered! Solid rock and roll, great riffs, and of course Dio's voice. I'm on my second spin right now.
I think at the time, it was just too different, too much "not Black Sabbath" (which at the time meant everything up to that point). The doom and gloom of their original sound was all but gone. Still heavy, but not all dark and dreary like the early stuff. Some of it reminds me of Deep Purple.
In 1980 I had already dived headfirst into prog, so "basic" rock and roll wasn't doing it for me. I remember listening to this album and thinking it was nothing special at all. No Ozzy, and it's so much lighter that it almost sounds happy, which is not Black Sabbath. Today, I can look back and appreciate things more for what they are, not dismiss them for what they're not. Funny how that works.
Sometimes I'm a bit jealous of people who get into classic bands long after the fact, and the thrill you can get when you first encounter something great. And there's also a perspective you get that obviously isn't possible if you're there as it's unfolding.
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Top 100 favorite moments on Promised Land is on deck after I finish the favorite singers countdown.
1. Damaged
2. I Am I
3. Jack
4-100. Shit
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Good news, I saw Tony Martin reveal in an interview that his albums are coming out in 2023 per contact with Iommi. Today, Iommi celebrated Cozy Powell in a tweet and mentioned he can't wait for the release of the I.R.S. label albums in 2023. Seems like we are very close to getting these finally. Martin mentioned a box set, but who knows. I don't care, I just want to finally have these albums.
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Good news, I saw Tony Martin reveal in an interview that his albums are coming out in 2023 per contact with Iommi. Today, Iommi celebrated Cozy Powell in a tweet and mentioned he can't wait for the release of the I.R.S. label albums in 2023. Seems like we are very close to getting these finally. Martin mentioned a box set, but who knows. I don't care, I just want to finally have these albums.
If the content is there, I'll happily repurchase these. :metal
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I really only have these on digital burned to CD. I did buy a used copy of Eternal Idol. I'd grab a box set of the Marting Era for sure.
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Yeah, a box set of all the albums would be exceptional.
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I've got all of them and will be rebuying, assuming the remastering job is noticeable. I can't imagine it won't be, possibly with the exception of Cross Purposes which probably doesn't need it.
Tony Martin said they can't put any new recordings on as part of the (bullshit) lawsuit ozzy filed several years ago, but anything previously recorded is ok. Hopefully there will be good bonus content.
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Finally. I don't own any of these albums physically so I'll be a day one buyer.
Now I know they can't release any new recordings under the sabbath name but it would be cool to get any new material from them. Even if its just a song or two that goes straight to Spotify. Especially if Martin has any more unused Cozy Powell drum tracks like he used for Raising Hell from Scream.
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I own all the OG pressing from the Martin era, all by modern standards are very low volume.
Remastering will bring that up, but hopefully not brick walled.
The bonus material I am guessing will be all live stuff with TM, Iommi or his management are reluctant to release demo's (Dehumanizer is a perfect example).
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Looks like we are also getting a new Iommi solo album https://blabbermouth.net/news/black-sabbath-guitarist-tony-iommi-is-getting-ready-to-write-another-album (https://blabbermouth.net/news/black-sabbath-guitarist-tony-iommi-is-getting-ready-to-write-another-album)
I can't wait for that as it's been way too long since Fused. Whether it's another one with Glenn or with a bunch of special guests I can't wait.
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I own all the OG pressing from the Martin era, all by modern standards are very low volume.
Remastering will bring that up, but hopefully not brick walled.
The bonus material I am guessing will be all live stuff with TM, Iommi or his management are reluctant to release demo's (Dehumanizer is a perfect example).
There are three or four b-sides and Japanese-only bonus tracks that I am looking forward to.
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I own all the OG pressing from the Martin era, all by modern standards are very low volume.
Remastering will bring that up, but hopefully not brick walled.
The bonus material I am guessing will be all live stuff with TM, Iommi or his management are reluctant to release demo's (Dehumanizer is a perfect example).
There are three or four b-sides and Japanese-only bonus tracks that I am looking forward to.
Headless Cross and Tyr, there no Japan bonus tracks, but HC single had 'Cloak and Dagger'.
Cross Purposes has 'What's The Use' and Forbidden adds 'Loser Get's It All'.
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Loser Gets It All is really the only worthwhile bonus track IMO. Better than most songs on the album.
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Sorry for de bump, but it seems like Tony Iommi and Tony Martin had a meeting about something. It could very well be related to the I.R.S. reissues.
https://www.ultimate-guitar.com/news/general_music_news/tony_iommi_and_ex-black_sabbath_singer_tony_martin_had_a_meeting_about_something.html (https://www.ultimate-guitar.com/news/general_music_news/tony_iommi_and_ex-black_sabbath_singer_tony_martin_had_a_meeting_about_something.html)
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Sorry for de bump, but it seems like Tony Iommi and Tony Martin had a meeting about something. It could very well be related to the I.R.S. reissues.
https://www.ultimate-guitar.com/news/general_music_news/tony_iommi_and_ex-black_sabbath_singer_tony_martin_had_a_meeting_about_something.html (https://www.ultimate-guitar.com/news/general_music_news/tony_iommi_and_ex-black_sabbath_singer_tony_martin_had_a_meeting_about_something.html)
I wonder if they'll tour in support of the reissues. They have to look at the gobs of money that is being paid and drool.
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Sorry for de bump, but it seems like Tony Iommi and Tony Martin had a meeting about something. It could very well be related to the I.R.S. reissues.
https://www.ultimate-guitar.com/news/general_music_news/tony_iommi_and_ex-black_sabbath_singer_tony_martin_had_a_meeting_about_something.html (https://www.ultimate-guitar.com/news/general_music_news/tony_iommi_and_ex-black_sabbath_singer_tony_martin_had_a_meeting_about_something.html)
I wonder if they'll tour in support of the reissues. They have to look at the gobs of money that is being paid and drool.
If they did, they would have to go out as "Headless Cross" or some other name, like what they did with Heaven and Hell. Sharon and Ozzy settled with Tony Iommi for some of the ownership of the Black Sabbath name.
I really enjoyed Tony Martin's solo album that came out a few years ago - it would be cool to see him front Sabbath again.
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Sorry for de bump, but it seems like Tony Iommi and Tony Martin had a meeting about something. It could very well be related to the I.R.S. reissues.
https://www.ultimate-guitar.com/news/general_music_news/tony_iommi_and_ex-black_sabbath_singer_tony_martin_had_a_meeting_about_something.html (https://www.ultimate-guitar.com/news/general_music_news/tony_iommi_and_ex-black_sabbath_singer_tony_martin_had_a_meeting_about_something.html)
Don't be sorry; I'm actively anticipating that rumored box set. I love the Martin era, and I saw it twice live. I got to see the Cross Purposes tour, with Motorhead opening and the Forbidden tour, also with Motorhead opening, in a small 1,200 seat (well, it was standing) club.
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I too am eagerly awaiting something......
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Sorry for de bump, but it seems like Tony Iommi and Tony Martin had a meeting about something. It could very well be related to the I.R.S. reissues.
https://www.ultimate-guitar.com/news/general_music_news/tony_iommi_and_ex-black_sabbath_singer_tony_martin_had_a_meeting_about_something.html (https://www.ultimate-guitar.com/news/general_music_news/tony_iommi_and_ex-black_sabbath_singer_tony_martin_had_a_meeting_about_something.html)
Don't be sorry; I'm actively anticipating that rumored box set. I love the Martin era, and I saw it twice live. I got to see the Cross Purposes tour, with Motorhead opening and the Forbidden tour, also with Motorhead opening, in a small 1,200 seat (well, it was standing) club.
I remember those tours. I completely thumbed my nose at the whole thing, calling it Black Sabbath and trying to take my money. Fuck that! :lol
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Sorry for de bump, but it seems like Tony Iommi and Tony Martin had a meeting about something. It could very well be related to the I.R.S. reissues.
https://www.ultimate-guitar.com/news/general_music_news/tony_iommi_and_ex-black_sabbath_singer_tony_martin_had_a_meeting_about_something.html (https://www.ultimate-guitar.com/news/general_music_news/tony_iommi_and_ex-black_sabbath_singer_tony_martin_had_a_meeting_about_something.html)
Don't be sorry; I'm actively anticipating that rumored box set. I love the Martin era, and I saw it twice live. I got to see the Cross Purposes tour, with Motorhead opening and the Forbidden tour, also with Motorhead opening, in a small 1,200 seat (well, it was standing) club.
I remember those tours. I completely thumbed my nose at the whole thing, calling it Black Sabbath and trying to take my money. Fuck that! :lol
Haha, it was good though. Cross Purposes was Geezer and Iommi and Bobby Rondinelli, and it ROCKED. SO good. The Forbidden tour was Cozy Powell, Neil Murray and Iommi, and it was pretty good; Martin was sick, though, and you could tell. Plus I was about 10 feet from Lemmy both nights. :)
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Yeah, I really regret not going, or even buying the albums. I bought Seventh Star and swore I wouldn't be duped again.
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additionally there was a recent 25th anniversary expanded edition release for Reunion if anyone was interested in that
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additionally there was a recent 25th anniversary expanded edition release for Reunion if anyone was interested in that
What was expanded about it?
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Out of curiosity, why the interest in these re-issues? I love these albums as much as the next guy--Eternal Idol through Tyr are god tier stuff. I don't see any reason to switch versions, though. And for my ears the originals are likely to sound much better. In me experience remasters mostly just sound louder and a bit punchier on modern, digital equipment. That's not to say bad or anything, the Priest remasters were actually pretty good, but I think I'd still go for the older versions, myself.
Is there some other angle I'm overlooking?
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not entirely sure, that's just what the release is called on streaming, lol
looks like two studio songs were included from the time period? and remixes of them or something?
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Out of curiosity, why the interest in these re-issues? I love these albums as much as the next guy--Eternal Idol through Tyr are god tier stuff. I don't see any reason to switch versions, though. And for my ears the originals are likely to sound much better. In me experience remasters mostly just sound louder and a bit punchier on modern, digital equipment. That's not to say bad or anything, the Priest remasters were actually pretty good, but I think I'd still go for the older versions, myself.
Is there some other angle I'm overlooking?
For me, I actually only own the CD proper of Eternal Idol. I do have digital versions of the rest. I'd be interested in the package though, the booklet and liner notes and shit.
I'm not generally a reissue kind of guy, and I'll consider the price, but if it's reasonable, I do plan on getting it.
Also, I'm not one that romanticizes about the Tony Martin Era either.
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"romanticizes"??.........The Tony Martin era is great stuff.
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Out of curiosity, why the interest in these re-issues? I love these albums as much as the next guy--Eternal Idol through Tyr are god tier stuff. I don't see any reason to switch versions, though. And for my ears the originals are likely to sound much better. In me experience remasters mostly just sound louder and a bit punchier on modern, digital equipment. That's not to say bad or anything, the Priest remasters were actually pretty good, but I think I'd still go for the older versions, myself.
Is there some other angle I'm overlooking?
You make a good point. I have the originals and they are great but foe me, the Martin era us so important to me that it would just feel wrong not getting any reissues that are brought out.
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I would absolutely get the reissue of Headless Cross because, well, I don't have it at all :)
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Out of curiosity, why the interest in these re-issues? I love these albums as much as the next guy--Eternal Idol through Tyr are god tier stuff. I don't see any reason to switch versions, though. And for my ears the originals are likely to sound much better. In me experience remasters mostly just sound louder and a bit punchier on modern, digital equipment. That's not to say bad or anything, the Priest remasters were actually pretty good, but I think I'd still go for the older versions, myself.
Is there some other angle I'm overlooking?
Iommi confirmed some time ago that he finished remixing Forbidden, which I would LOVE to hear. That title track is so heavy and I'd love to hear it with a big, fat, clear mix. I think that's the big draw to this rumored box set, other than the fact that the physical albums have been out of print forever.
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Sorry for de bump, but it seems like Tony Iommi and Tony Martin had a meeting about something. It could very well be related to the I.R.S. reissues.
https://www.ultimate-guitar.com/news/general_music_news/tony_iommi_and_ex-black_sabbath_singer_tony_martin_had_a_meeting_about_something.html (https://www.ultimate-guitar.com/news/general_music_news/tony_iommi_and_ex-black_sabbath_singer_tony_martin_had_a_meeting_about_something.html)
I wonder if they'll tour in support of the reissues. They have to look at the gobs of money that is being paid and drool.
If they did, they would have to go out as "Headless Cross" or some other name, like what they did with Heaven and Hell. Sharon and Ozzy settled with Tony Iommi for some of the ownership of the Black Sabbath name.
I believe that when "Heaven and Hell" came to be, it was their own decision to go like that. They avoided headaches from the Ozzy camp, and they were free from the obligation to play Paranoid and Iron Man. With the Heaven and Hell monicker, you knew what you were getting, Dio songs. If you go out billed as Black Sabbath, peple want to hear Ozzy songs also.
The settlement for the ownership of the name, if it indeed happened, must have occoured in 2011 with the proper "reunion" for the 13 album.
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Out of curiosity, why the interest in these re-issues? I love these albums as much as the next guy--Eternal Idol through Tyr are god tier stuff. I don't see any reason to switch versions, though. And for my ears the originals are likely to sound much better. In me experience remasters mostly just sound louder and a bit punchier on modern, digital equipment. That's not to say bad or anything, the Priest remasters were actually pretty good, but I think I'd still go for the older versions, myself.
Is there some other angle I'm overlooking?
Iommi confirmed some time ago that he finished remixing Forbidden, which I would LOVE to hear. That title track is so heavy and I'd love to hear it with a big, fat, clear mix. I think that's the big draw to this rumored box set, other than the fact that the physical albums have been out of print forever.
Yep, that song is unreal. Pretty sure it's the lowest tuned Sabbath song too in C Standard......from memory.
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The settlement for the ownership of the name, if it indeed happened, must have occoured in 2011 with the proper "reunion" for the 13 album.
I think it was done about the time of the 1997 Reunion.
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I believe that when "Heaven and Hell" came to be, it was their own decision to go like that. They avoided headaches from the Ozzy camp, and they were free from the obligation to play Paranoid and Iron Man. With the Heaven and Hell monicker, you knew what you were getting, Dio songs. If you go out billed as Black Sabbath, peple want to hear Ozzy songs also.
The settlement for the ownership of the name, if it indeed happened, must have occoured in 2011 with the proper "reunion" for the 13 album.
That's all correct. The Tony/Ozzy settlement was either 100% financial, or Tony had to give up a little control over the name to appease Ozzy and Sharon. She was really big on saying that "Ozzy IS Black Sabbath" around that time. So there could be an element where Tony can't use the name without Ozzy and/or Geezer, which is what I suspect.
Either way, he and Tony Marin could always voluntarily use a different name like they did with Heaven and Hell. I still say that I saw Ronnie front Sabbath, despite it being a separate band.
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Out of curiosity, why the interest in these re-issues? I love these albums as much as the next guy--Eternal Idol through Tyr are god tier stuff. I don't see any reason to switch versions, though. And for my ears the originals are likely to sound much better. In me experience remasters mostly just sound louder and a bit punchier on modern, digital equipment. That's not to say bad or anything, the Priest remasters were actually pretty good, but I think I'd still go for the older versions, myself.
Is there some other angle I'm overlooking?
For me, I actually only own the CD proper of Eternal Idol. I do have digital versions of the rest. I'd be interested in the package though, the booklet and liner notes and shit.
I'm not generally a reissue kind of guy, and I'll consider the price, but if it's reasonable, I do plan on getting it.
Also, I'm not one that romanticizes about the Tony Martin Era either.
I have the Deluxe version of Eternal Isol Lommi released several years ago which included the second disc of original Ray Gillen demos and that whole package, from the remaster the demos and booklet is so well put together.
I wouldn't hesitate to own the entire Martin era in this format if the price is right \m/
2c
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I believe that when "Heaven and Hell" came to be, it was their own decision to go like that. They avoided headaches from the Ozzy camp, and they were free from the obligation to play Paranoid and Iron Man. With the Heaven and Hell monicker, you knew what you were getting, Dio songs. If you go out billed as Black Sabbath, peple want to hear Ozzy songs also.
The settlement for the ownership of the name, if it indeed happened, must have occoured in 2011 with the proper "reunion" for the 13 album.
That's all correct. The Tony/Ozzy settlement was either 100% financial, or Tony had to give up a little control over the name to appease Ozzy and Sharon. She was really big on saying that "Ozzy IS Black Sabbath" around that time. So there could be an element where Tony can't use the name without Ozzy and/or Geezer, which is what I suspect.
Either way, he and Tony Marin could always voluntarily use a different name like they did with Heaven and Hell. I still say that I saw Ronnie front Sabbath, despite it being a separate band.
I agree.
I saw Heaven and Hell twice, in 2007 and 2009. On stage there were people who at a time were, all together, members of Black Sabbath, who recorded albums presented as Black Sabbath and in the show they played songs by Black Sabbath. If you ask me if I ever saw Black Sabbath live, I reply "yes, the version with Dio".
In an alternate scenario where the Bruce Dickinson version of Iron Maiden falls apart time and time again, and Steve Harris, Dave Murray, Dennis Stratton, Clive Burr and Paul Di'Anno come together to play songs from the 1980 debut album billed as "Opera Phantoms", that counts as seeing Iron maiden to me.
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Out of curiosity, why the interest in these re-issues? I love these albums as much as the next guy--Eternal Idol through Tyr are god tier stuff. I don't see any reason to switch versions, though. And for my ears the originals are likely to sound much better. In me experience remasters mostly just sound louder and a bit punchier on modern, digital equipment. That's not to say bad or anything, the Priest remasters were actually pretty good, but I think I'd still go for the older versions, myself.
Is there some other angle I'm overlooking?
You make a good point. I have the originals and they are great but foe me, the Martin era us so important to me that it would just feel wrong not getting any reissues that are brought out.
Well, for me, there's the unreleased - well, they were released in Japan - songs and b-sides. The other, non-Ozzy deluxe versions were generally pretty good with additional material; live stuff, and what not. There was a live release (Cross Purposes Live) that was done, and the CD and the VHS were not identical; it would be nice to get a DVD of the show (it's got more songs than the CD).
And not for nothing, I'm with you Bart: remasters generally suck in that they're the same thing, just louder. BUT... there are a batch of remasters from the Ozzy years that are NOTICEABLY better. Cleaner, and not just "louder" per se, but more depth. The Martin years generally sound good (I think all but Forbidden are produced by Iommi, with help from Cozy) but if they get treated the same way as the Ozzy years, a little clarity wouldn't hurt anyone.
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Just listening to "The Shining". What an awesome song :metal
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Just listening to "The Shining". What an awesome song :metal
One cannot argue with this post.
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Just listening to "The Shining". What an awesome song :metal
:metal
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Just listening to "The Shining". What an awesome song :metal
That song popped up on my Spotify "Discover Weekly" list a while back, and I loved it instantly. Other than that and Headless Cross, I haven't heard any of the Martin-era Sabbath. That's really something I need to rectify.
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Just listening to "The Shining". What an awesome song :metal
That song popped up on my Spotify "Discover Weekly" list a while back, and I loved it instantly. Other than that and Headless Cross, I haven't heard any of the Martin-era Sabbath. That's really something I need to rectify.
I did that a long time ago after hearing The Shining. I finally found some of the Martin records and fell in love with them, just as I did with the Dio albums 20 years ago. There's definitely plenty of great songs from Tony Martin's time as the frontman.
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Love The Shining, great tune! Am I in the minority that likes the Seventh Star album?
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I wouldn't say it's among my favorites, but I do like it...
One thing I never quite understood is the "Black Sabbath featuring Tony Iommi" thing...I mean, I get that for a while this was supposed to be a Iommi solo record, but then there were pressures to release it as "Black Sabbath". Once that was decided, though, what was the point of adding "Featuring Tony Iommi"?? :biggrin: He was the ONE permanent fixture of the band the whole time! Of course it was going to "feature" him...??
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I really like Seventh Star, Danger Zone is fantastic. With the Martin era, I think The Shining and Headless Cross are the two standouts, but always thought Black Moon and The Lawmaker were two underrated gems.
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I listened to Seventh Star a couple of months ago, and it fucking blows monkey chunks.
The fact that they called it Black Sabbath, and that it sucked so fucking bad, totally turned me off to the Tony Martin Era and caused me to completely ignore it.
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I listened to Seventh Star a couple of months ago, and it fucking blows monkey chunks.
The fact that they called it Black Sabbath, and that it sucked so fucking bad, totally turned me off to the Tony Martin Era and caused me to completely ignore it.
I can only vaguely remember hearing Danger Zone and thinking it sucked, so I ignored Seventh Star (after seeing and scoffing at the cover with the "Black Sabbath" name on what was obviously a Tony Iommi solo album). When I heard The Shining the next year, it was so good that I went out and bought The Eternal Idol, but the rest of the album didn't hold up. Sabbath was dead to me at that point until Dehumanizer came out in '92.
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I wouldn't say it's among my favorites, but I do like it...
One thing I never quite understood is the "Black Sabbath featuring Tony Iommi" thing...I mean, I get that for a while this was supposed to be a Iommi solo record, but then there were pressures to release it as "Black Sabbath". Once that was decided, though, what was the point of adding "Featuring Tony Iommi"?? :biggrin: He was the ONE permanent fixture of the band the whole time! Of course it was going to "feature" him...??
Now that you point it out it kinda feels weird ;D
My guesses:
- Compromise. Iommi wanted it labeled as a Tony Iommi album. The label wanted Black Sabbath. They met halfway to distinguish it somehow from other Sabbath albums.
- Recognition. Let's remember that the band was basically dead at the time. When Ian Gillian left, the band tried to go on with a couple of singers and then folded. The name was a way of saying "so, Black Sabbath is back and in case you wonder if any of the original guys is there, well, it's Iommi".
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80's Black Sabbath is such an interesting era.
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I fucking hated SS when I first heard it. I was so confused. I must say though, over time, it's not all that bad in my eyes.
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Wolf, I know you love AOR. Seventh Star seems right up your alley. It 100% isn't monkey chunks.
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I fucking hated SS when I first heard it. I was so confused. I must say though, over time, it's not all that bad in my eyes.
It's not bad in my eyes either. It's in my ears that it's terrible.
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Take back the Monkey Chunks review :lol
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Take back the Monkey Chunks review :lol
It's an industry technical term. :lol
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haha :lol
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How can anything with Glenn Hughes voice on it blow monkey chunks? I think it’s a fine album.
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Speaking of Glen Hughes, I recently read his autobiography, and really found this time period interesting. He was fucked up.
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What do you think about Ian's Sabbath time? Disturbing the Priest is awesome, you can't even remotely call that Monkey Chunks?
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What do you think about Ian's Sabbath time? Disturbing the Priest is awesome, you can't even remotely call that Monkey Chunks?
I think Disturbing The Priest is one of the best songs ever under the Black Sabbath banner.
Overall, I find Born Again a glorified EP. It feels rushed and it's quite short. The shows on that tour were quite short too and the setlists were the most predictable and boring things ever.
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Not sure, but wasn't Stonehenge from the Ian Sabbath tour based on Spinal Tap? One of my favorite movies of all time.
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Not sure, but wasn't Stonehenge from the Ian Sabbath tour based on Spinal Tap? One of my favorite movies of all time.
Probably the other way around. That Sabbath tour was before Spinal Tap came out.
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Right, the other way around
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To be fair Seventh Star was never intended to be a Black Sabbath album. I enjoy it but it definitely sticks out like a sore thumb sound wise. Which is kinda impressive with a band with so many lineup changes.
As for Born Again (which also wasn't supposed to be a Sabbath album) I recently gave it a re-listen after many years and dogshit mix aside I like it a lot more now. Hot Line, Disturbing the Priest, and Born Again being the highlights for me. Honorable mention to The Fallen which 100% should have made the album because it would've been the best song on it imo.
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Honorable mention to The Fallen which 100% should have made the album because it would've been the best song on it imo.
Never heard it before, but listening to it now.
There was definitely room for it for sure.
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Have been on a huge run of the DIO Sabbath's particularly Dehumanizer and Dio's Strange Highways which feel like sister albums of sorts, both well up on my faves list and anyway digging through Born Again recently.
Hindsight tells us that dogshit sound, along with other issues with the album the cover art, some of the lyrics, Gillan and such, while contributed to the album's failings at the time (although think it initially charted well?) has become the album's appeal and why the album grows in popularity, a cult favorite if you will to this day?
Of course that can also be attributed to fans yearning for new Sabbath and rediscovering these records all these years later but all that aside, I'm not sure I'd ever want a remix of the album because much like Dehumanizer much of why I appreciate it so much is because of its sound and whatnot.
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I’ve always liked Seventh Star. I think ‘In for the Kill’ and ‘No Stranger to Love’ are awesome songs. Are they awesome “Black Sabbath songs”? I don’t know. But I like them.
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"romanticizes"??.........The Tony Martin era is great stuff.
Tony was the perfect guy to bridge the gap and keep things afloat between the Dio/Ozzy reunion eras. He could do both eras justice while singing live and some of his eras' songs are unfairly forgotten. Headless Cross deserves to be in the conversation with the best songs that Sabbath made.
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I wouldn't say it's among my favorites, but I do like it...
One thing I never quite understood is the "Black Sabbath featuring Tony Iommi" thing...I mean, I get that for a while this was supposed to be a Iommi solo record, but then there were pressures to release it as "Black Sabbath". Once that was decided, though, what was the point of adding "Featuring Tony Iommi"?? :biggrin: He was the ONE permanent fixture of the band the whole time! Of course it was going to "feature" him...??
Now that you point it out it kinda feels weird ;D
My guesses:
- Compromise. Iommi wanted it labeled as a Tony Iommi album. The label wanted Black Sabbath. They met halfway to distinguish it somehow from other Sabbath albums.
- Recognition. Let's remember that the band was basically dead at the time. When Ian Gillian left, the band tried to go on with a couple of singers and then folded. The name was a way of saying "so, Black Sabbath is back and in case you wonder if any of the original guys is there, well, it's Iommi".
I always thought it was the first one.
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Yep. It was supposed to be Tony's first solo record. Sharon's Dad and the label forced him to change the name to sell more copies.
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I’ve always liked Seventh Star. I think ‘In for the Kill’ and ‘No Stranger to Love’ are awesome songs. Are they awesome “Black Sabbath songs”? I don’t know. But I like them.
I think this sums it up. As a Sabbath record, it fails, but for a general record around that era, it's like anything else out there and is solid. First two songs are great, Danger Zone is excellent too.
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Yep. It was supposed to be Tony's first solo record. Sharon's Dad and the label forced him to change the name to sell more copies.
Who the fark is Sharon's Dad? I know, I could look it up.
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Yep. It was supposed to be Tony's first solo record. Sharon's Dad and the label forced him to change the name to sell more copies.
Who the fark is Sharon's Dad? I know, I could look it up.
He was Black Sabbath/Ozzy’s manager.
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Disgusting.
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For anyone interested I've also done a "Ranking every Black Sabbath" album video. Has the same crappy production techniques as my Dream Theater version but, hey, that just shows I'm genuine!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fzSWIUkAP9g&t=57s&ab_channel=TheRock%26RollSoapBox
Again, the cribnotes version for those unable or unwilling to go down a one hour video rabbit hole:
(https://i.imgur.com/t674j1w.png)
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Iommi has confirmed via his social media that the Tony Martin box set is finally coming out in May this year :biggrin:
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Iommi has confirmed via his social media that the Tony Martin box set is finally coming out in May this year :biggrin:
Awesome \m/
Couldn't believe my luck and actually grabbed a near mint copy of TYR on LP a few weeks ago for absolute dirt cheap :metal
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That ranking above is pretty impressive. :tup
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Iommi has confirmed via his social media that the Tony Martin box set is finally coming out in May this year :biggrin:
(https://media.tenor.com/NtfcAVPEAgEAAAAM/omg-yes-antonio-banderas.gif)
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Yeah sounds like the legal stuff was more annoying to settle than anticipated. Glad to see it's finally coming though. Can't wait to hear the Forbidden remix.
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Well, I'd call that a happy new year.
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Agreed.
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They announced the Tony Martin set yesterday.
https://blabbermouth.net/news/black-sabbath-box-set-of-tony-martin-era-recordings-anno-domini-1989-1995-to-arrive-in-may
Looks cool. I just pre-ordered on Amazon. Excited for it. TAC made me copies of a couple of the records, but it'll be nice to have the actual albums in my collection. Glad they have not forgotten about this underrated era of Sabbath.
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I can't wait to hear the remix of Forbidden. I'm one of the few that actually enjoys a good chunk of that album.
Remasters of Headless Cross and TYR and Cross Purposes will be nice to have too.
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I don't know if this was already discussed, but why was The Eternal idol excluded from the set? That's kind of odd that one of the five albums Tony Martin released with the band isn't in the box.
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I don't know if this was already discussed, but why was The Eternal idol excluded from the set? That's kind of odd that one of the five albums Tony Martin released with the band isn't in the box.
Might have been a label thing, but I also know it got a Deluxe reissue a few years ago. I own that so I am not mad it is missing. Pre-ordering soon.
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I don't know if this was already discussed, but why was The Eternal idol excluded from the set? That's kind of odd that one of the five albums Tony Martin released with the band isn't in the box.
It's already been released in "deluxe" format, if that matters, and is on a different label. The box set is essentially "the IRS years".
EDIT: Ninja'd by the Prof.
EDIT II: Purchased.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VwEWf3RXseg
Remastered video for Headless Cross. My favorite Tony Martin-era song, and it sounds slamming. :metal
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Yeah Eternal Idol was Warner Brothers/Vertigo so that probably would've been an addition legal hurdle to try and include in the set.
Also along with Headless Cross Anno Mundi landed on Spotify today.
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Got my order in. One minor disappointment is the missing live album. Was hoping to see that in the box. Dio's had Live Evil in it. Was hoping for Cross Purposes Live in this one.
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Got my order in. One minor disappointment is the missing live album. Was hoping to see that in the box. Dio's had Live Evil in it. Was hoping for Cross Purposes Live in this one.
yeah, especially since the CD (and I think the VHS, too) were truncated. Put out the whole show!!!
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Joe Siegler over at Black-Sabbath.com included this bullet point for the box set announcement whatever it means.
Cross Purposes Live is not part of this, but I’m told will probably make an appearance somewhere else down the line.
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Joe Siegler over at Black-Sabbath.com included this bullet point for the box set announcement whatever it means.
Cross Purposes Live is not part of this, but I’m told will probably make an appearance somewhere else down the line.
That guy's website is awesome and a real treasure trove of Sabbath history.
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So wait...the Sabbath/Martin box set does NOT contain The Eternal Idol, NOR does it contain the live show?
Yeah....fuck that.
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Not sure why people are bitchin' about no TEI in the IRS years box set?
It was remastered (first 1996) and re-issued as a deluxe edition in 2010.
Yes it would be nice to have all the TM albums together in one box, but obviously this is not possible.
I do agree with the lack of a full-set live album is disappointing, given that besides the CP Live set, there are several widely available radio broadcast bootlegs from the TM era around.
I've just listened to the remastered Headless Cross and Anno Mundi via YT music and I am very impressed with the sound.
Even an audio nerd can hear the difference and IMO a great improvement on the OG sounds.
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Not sure why people are bitchin' about no TEI in the IRS years box set?
It was remastered (first 1996) and re-issued as a deluxe edition in 2010.
Well what interested me was having the complete set in one place with liner notes and shit. I didn't realize there'd be an omission. I would've bought the thing to thumb through it, but I'll settle for Spotify now.
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Yes it would be nice to have all the TM albums together in one box, but obviously this is not possible.
Why not? :) I'm sincerely asking...is it a label thing (disclaimer: I haven't read any press release)? Just seems odd...not like there are a ton of albums with TM to start with.
Incidentally, I already own TEI. The one I don't own and I'd love to have is Headless Cross, but I won't be buying the set just for that...
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This is the version of Eternal Idol I have. Bought it years ago. Definitely a different label.
https://www.amazon.com/ETERNAL-IDOL-BLACK-SABBATH/dp/B004222UC8
EDIT: Just watched the video. That sounded excellent, even for a YouTube video. Really looking forward to legit copies of these.
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WTF really???
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They announced the Tony Martin set yesterday.
https://blabbermouth.net/news/black-sabbath-box-set-of-tony-martin-era-recordings-anno-domini-1989-1995-to-arrive-in-may
Looks cool. I just pre-ordered on Amazon. Excited for it. TAC made me copies of a couple of the records, but it'll be nice to have the actual albums in my collection. Glad they have not forgotten about this underrated era of Sabbath.
No bonus live stuff? No Eternal Idol? No full Cross Purposes CD? No demos or any unreleased studio cuts that aren't already released? What the fuck!? So disappointing. :tdwn :censored
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They announced the Tony Martin set yesterday.
https://blabbermouth.net/news/black-sabbath-box-set-of-tony-martin-era-recordings-anno-domini-1989-1995-to-arrive-in-may
Looks cool. I just pre-ordered on Amazon. Excited for it. TAC made me copies of a couple of the records, but it'll be nice to have the actual albums in my collection. Glad they have not forgotten about this underrated era of Sabbath.
No bonus live stuff? No Eternal Idol? No full Cross Purposes CD? No demos or any unreleased studio cuts that aren't already released? What the fuck!? So disappointing. :tdwn :censored
Eternal Idol, different label.
Cross Purposes is complete.
Most cds have a bonus track only released in Japan.
Word is, Sharon won't let them release anything that hasn't already been released.
Sucks Cross Purposes Live wasn't included but a completely remixed Forbidden and remastered everything else and you're complaining?
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Word is, Sharon won't let them release anything that hasn't already been released.
I remember reading this somewhere else. I want to say that Tony Martin mentioned it in an interview - that they wouldn't be able to release any additional live songs.
I share your view - despite not having EVERYTHING, it's still a really cool set that they're putting out. The remixed Forbidden is huge for me.
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Yeah the way Martin worded it, it could mean they simply can't release any *new* Martin/Iommi collaborations on the albums as bonus tracks but I would imagine it means they can't release anything like bonus live tracks from the era or demos.
I'm glad other people are stoked about Forbidden. I've always been a fierce defender eve though I can admit it's probably earned a place at the bottom of the rankings. "Bad" Black Sabbath is still excellent music for the most part.
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Meh I prefer my EI Remaster with the Ray Gillen demos anyway so sure while it doesn't feel 'complete' as it should it's still a darn miracle we finally got this box.
Looks awesome and I sure as heck will be wanting a copy :metal
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They announced the Tony Martin set yesterday.
https://blabbermouth.net/news/black-sabbath-box-set-of-tony-martin-era-recordings-anno-domini-1989-1995-to-arrive-in-may
Looks cool. I just pre-ordered on Amazon. Excited for it. TAC made me copies of a couple of the records, but it'll be nice to have the actual albums in my collection. Glad they have not forgotten about this underrated era of Sabbath.
No bonus live stuff? No Eternal Idol? No full Cross Purposes CD? No demos or any unreleased studio cuts that aren't already released? What the fuck!? So disappointing. :tdwn :censored
Eternal Idol, different label.
Cross Purposes is complete.
Most cds have a bonus track only released in Japan.
Word is, Sharon won't let them release anything that hasn't already been released.
Sucks Cross Purposes Live wasn't included but a completely remixed Forbidden and remastered everything else and you're complaining?
I meant Cross Purposes Live CD. My mistake, I know the studio album is complete.
And yes, I'm complaining. Did my post not give that away? I don't care about remasters, the originals all sound amazing. The Forbidden remix would be interesting though.
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Even if it was allowed or not, this set really needed a quality boot from each tour at least. It's nice to have all the bonus tracks but I was at least expecting maybe some demos or live boots.
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As someone who has never had the opportunity to own these and only has (cough) pirated (cough) copies, this set is exactly what I needed. I have the Deluxe reissues of Eternal Idol and Gillan's Born Again. The only studio albums I have never had are exactly what is in this set.
Guess your excitement sits on when exactly you became a fan and what your purchasing opportunities were. For me, this is nearly perfect. Hoping the nugget that the live album might be coming later comes true. Maybe they are remastering the video for a deluxe release with the whole show on CD and remastered video. One can dream.
As always, I hate Sharon and the fact the she has Iommi by the balls. I know he initially wanted to record some new stuff for this box with Martin but that stupid contract stipulation quashed it.
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They announced the Tony Martin set yesterday.
https://blabbermouth.net/news/black-sabbath-box-set-of-tony-martin-era-recordings-anno-domini-1989-1995-to-arrive-in-may
Looks cool. I just pre-ordered on Amazon. Excited for it. TAC made me copies of a couple of the records, but it'll be nice to have the actual albums in my collection. Glad they have not forgotten about this underrated era of Sabbath.
No bonus live stuff? No Eternal Idol? No full Cross Purposes CD? No demos or any unreleased studio cuts that aren't already released? What the fuck!? So disappointing. :tdwn :censored
Eternal Idol, different label.
Cross Purposes is complete.
Most cds have a bonus track only released in Japan.
Word is, Sharon won't let them release anything that hasn't already been released.
Sucks Cross Purposes Live wasn't included but a completely remixed Forbidden and remastered everything else and you're complaining?
I meant Cross Purposes Live CD. My mistake, I know the studio album is complete.
And yes, I'm complaining. Did my post not give that away? I don't care about remasters, the originals all sound amazing. The Forbidden remix would be interesting though.
With the exception of Cross Purposes, I don't think they sound great at all. So the remasters are most welcome.
As someone who has never had the opportunity to own these and only has (cough) pirated (cough) copies, this set is exactly what I needed. I have the Deluxe reissues of Eternal Idol and Gillan's Born Again. They only studio albums I have never had are exactly what is in this set.
Guess your excitement sits on when exactly you became a fan and what your purchasing opportunities were. For me, this is nearly perfect.
Well i've been a fan so long that I was able to purchase most of these at a used cd store because they practically couldn't give them away. The exception is forbidden which I got at best Buy in the $2 bin in 1996. That was about the time I became a fan and had no interest in non Ozzy years but I couldn't pass that up considering most CD's were 15 or $16 Back when I earned $13 a week, delivering a newspaper 1 day per week.
Took years but I grew to love the Martin years INCLUDING Forbidden but the mix is definitely Sabbath's worst. The others could benefit from a remastering job. TYR and Headless Cross sound a bit 80s but the songs are killer. Cross Purposes I used to love but have grown to feel it's one of Sabbath's blandest.
Anyway, I've got all the bonus songs as illegal downloads so the quality isn't the greatest. Happy to have good versions and psyched for the improved sound.
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Tyr and Headless Cross sound a bit 80's? No shit! :lol
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Tyr and Headless Cross sound a bit 80's? No shit! :lol
Eternal Idol doesn't sound 80s. It sounds timeless. Same with Heaven and Hell and Mob Rules. So yeah, the other two sound relegated to a specific time when poppy sounding drums and not the greatest synth sound played a bigger role than they should have. Very 80s.
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For me, Forbidden goes back to Christmas 1995. I was 15 and only liked a handful of bands - Metallica, Megadeth, Ozzy/Sabbath, etc. My mom bought me the new album from Black Sabbath and I was stoked....though I had only ever heard the Ozzy era. I had no idea they had different singers! I remember not digging the album and sold it off. Years later, I got back into it after hearing the title track.
I have some nostalgia for it due to my mom's alzheimers now and remembering that moment when I was becoming a metalhead. She wanted me to have a new cd from a band that I liked.
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Yeah it's these stories and all the history that comes with these albums that make them so dear to us all these years later.
Thanks for sharing!
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For me, Forbidden goes back to Christmas 1995. I was 15 and only liked a handful of bands - Metallica, Megadeth, Ozzy/Sabbath, etc. My mom bought me the new album from Black Sabbath and I was stoked....though I had only ever heard the Ozzy era. I had no idea they had different singers! I remember not digging the album and sold it off. Years later, I got back into it after hearing the title track.
I have some nostalgia for it due to my mom's alzheimers now and remembering that moment when I was becoming a metalhead. She wanted me to have a new cd from a band that I liked.
That's awesome! My mom bought me Headless Cross. Of course, she asked what I wanted for my birthday and I told her that and this independent record store would be the only one to have it. The guy at the counter looked at it, then looked at her and said, "Grest album!" She sort of nodded and he said, "but I'm assuming you're not buying it for yourself."
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Tyr and Headless Cross sound a bit 80's? No shit! :lol
Eternal Idol doesn't sound 80s. It sounds timeless. Same with Heaven and Hell and Mob Rules. So yeah, the other two sound relegated to a specific time when poppy sounding drums and not the greatest synth sound played a bigger role than they should have. Very 80s.
They all sound timeless to me. Always said this era is by far my fav from Sabbath and HC was in my top 50.
I guess I should just be happy they are getting some attention, as these albums are some of the most underrated ever in my book.
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Tyr and Headless Cross sound a bit 80's? No shit! :lol
Eternal Idol doesn't sound 80s. It sounds timeless. Same with Heaven and Hell and Mob Rules. So yeah, the other two sound relegated to a specific time when poppy sounding drums and not the greatest synth sound played a bigger role than they should have. Very 80s.
They all sound timeless to me. Always said this era is by far my fav from Sabbath and HC was in my top 50.
I guess I should just be happy they are getting some attention, as these albums are some of the most underrated ever in my book.
100% agreement.
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Tyr and Headless Cross sound a bit 80's? No shit! :lol
Eternal Idol doesn't sound 80s. It sounds timeless. Same with Heaven and Hell and Mob Rules. So yeah, the other two sound relegated to a specific time when poppy sounding drums and not the greatest synth sound played a bigger role than they should have. Very 80s.
They all sound timeless to me. Always said this era is by far my fav from Sabbath and HC was in my top 50.
I guess I should just be happy they are getting some attention, as these albums are some of the most underrated ever in my book.
100% agreement.
Great that we can agree. I guess I just wanted more from this amazing batch of albums, but I'm sure they did whatever was possible.
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Eternal Idol doesn't sound 80s. It sounds timeless. Same with Heaven and Hell and Mob Rules. So yeah, the other two sound relegated to a specific time when poppy sounding drums and not the greatest synth sound played a bigger role than they should have. Very 80s.
They all sound timeless to me. Always said this era is by far my fav from Sabbath and HC was in my top 50.
I guess I should just be happy they are getting some attention, as these albums are some of the most underrated ever in my book.
100% agreement.
Great that we can agree. I guess I just wanted more from this amazing batch of albums, but I'm sure they did whatever was possible.
Tony did hint in a video a few months ago that legal stuff was holding this release up
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Tony did hint in a video a few months ago that legal stuff was holding this release up
Yeah, I remember that. I'm sure Tony would have liked a bit more out of this release too I would guess.
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I thought the Sharon restriction was on releasing NEW material (which makes sense, since the whole "name thing" was from circa 2008/2009 around the time of "Heaven And Hell") specifically under the Black Sabbath name, but I could be wrong.
I don't know; I'm fired up for this. I've always like Forbidden - except the first song - and that was the one that I kind of wanted to see what they would do with it. I don't have a problem with the sound of the other records; in fact, Cross Purposes to me sounds decent. Then there's the three Japanese songs; I mean, $55 isn't worth "three songs" but I've really liked the job that Sabbath has done with their remixes/remasters. They've sounded really, really good.
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I thought the Sharon restriction was on releasing NEW material (which makes sense, since the whole "name thing" was from circa 2008/2009 around the time of "Heaven And Hell") specifically under the Black Sabbath name, but I could be wrong.
It's not entirely clear what the agreement is but it doesn't look favorable to Iommi.
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It's not entirely clear what the agreement is but it doesn't look favorable to Iommi.
I think generally it governed what could be released under the "Black Sabbath" name, and I think it basically has to include Ozzy or get his permission, is the gist of it. Then again, I haven't seen it. :)
I remember reading an article where it was said that it was "confusing" otherwise. WTF? We're not idiots.
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From what I recall, anything not previously released under the Sabbath name could ever be released unless Ozzy was involved. So the Tony's could not record some new tracks and attach them to the new box because they never were released before (think along the lines of the 3 new tracks that were recorded for the Dio-era Hits album). She essentially made it so that anything that might be vaulted and did not contain Ozzy, that could not be released under the Sabbath name. Same goes for any new material, it's Ozzy or nothing.
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And honestly, that's not completely unreasonable. I mean, I guess there ought to be a mechanism for Ozzy to approve two or three songs from Tony Martin, but generally speaking, I would've asked for the same thing if I was Oz.
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Going on a massive Sabbath binge of all eras lately. I'm listening to the live stuff on the Seventh Star remaster, and never realized that was Ray Gillen singing for that tour. He sang his ASS off and sounds fantastic on those songs.
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Going on a massive Sabbath binge of all eras lately. I'm listening to the live stuff on the Seventh Star remaster, and never realized that was Ray Gillen singing for that tour. He sang his ASS off and sounds fantastic on those songs.
Yeah, Glenn Hughes started the tour until it was clear he was too fucked up.
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I remember reading the notes from the Seventh Star remaster about Hughes and yeah, he was I think at his lowest point around that time, absolutely fucked up.
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I remember reading the notes from the Seventh Star remaster about Hughes and yeah, he was I think at his lowest point around that time, absolutely fucked up.
I read his autobiography last year. It was actually kind of unbelievable.
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From memory it wasn't only drugs he was getting fat and also addicted to Mars Bars. :lol
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Going on a massive Sabbath binge of all eras lately. I'm listening to the live stuff on the Seventh Star remaster, and never realized that was Ray Gillen singing for that tour. He sang his ASS off and sounds fantastic on those songs.
Excellent singer for sure but I always thought he was a bit overrated for Sabbath. A lot of it is the lore of what Eternal Idol could have sounded like. I mean, he sounds good on those demos but I think with maybe one exception, Tony Martin owns those songs
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Excellent singer for sure but I always thought he was a bit overrated for Sabbath. A lot of it is the lore of what Eternal Idol could have sounded like. I mean, he sounds good on those demos but I think with maybe one exception, Tony Martin owns those songs
I haven't heard that yet - I already had Eternal Idol when that re-issue came out and never bought it. I was just talking about the live stuff, he sounded really good on those older songs, with tons of high notes.
I'm still a big Tony Martin fan, especially on Headless Cross. I've just been in the mood to explore all of their records again and see what pops for me - random live tracks, old favorites.
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I haven't heard that yet - I already had Eternal Idol when that re-issue came out and never bought it. I was just talking about the live stuff, he sounded really good on those older songs, with tons of high notes.
I'm still a big Tony Martin fan, especially on Headless Cross. I've just been in the mood to explore all of their records again and see what pops for me - random live tracks, old favorites.
It's definitely worth a purchase.
If you wanna go real deep, look up Dave Donato singing The Shining with completely different lyrics and melodies
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Snippet of the Forbidden remix about halfway in https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KaJUhsbvAr8 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KaJUhsbvAr8)
Sounds great
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Snippet of the Forbidden remix about halfway in https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KaJUhsbvAr8 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KaJUhsbvAr8)
Sounds great
That sounds awesome! :metal