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General => Movies and TV => Topic started by: XJDenton on December 13, 2017, 04:06:08 PM

Title: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: XJDenton on December 13, 2017, 04:06:08 PM
Old thread was over 150 pages, and with the new film out it seems like a good place to start a new one.

Old one here: http://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=2459.0
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: XJDenton on December 13, 2017, 04:59:41 PM
So, on topic. Saw the film tonight. A lot different to what I was expecting.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: lonestar on December 13, 2017, 05:18:17 PM
Try not to chalk up too many pages till Monday when I see it guys, ok?
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: faizoff on December 13, 2017, 05:54:00 PM
Different is good in my books. 24 hrs to go. Don't think I've waited for a movie with so much anticipation in forever.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Polarbear on December 13, 2017, 11:45:54 PM
I'm starting to like The Last Jedi more and more, as i'm going through it in my head.

I't cannot be overstated how different and unexpected this is!
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Logain Ablar on December 14, 2017, 02:44:07 AM
As a last minute decision I went to the midnight showing last night.

I'm sorry to say that it was a disappointment for me.  :'( Maybe my expectations were unrealistic going in, but for me it didn't live up to the hype. There were too many moments that were so jarring that they took me out of the movie.

I'll say more when others get a chance to watch it and weigh in here..
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: soupytwist on December 14, 2017, 04:28:00 AM
What an odd film.  On one side it's not what I expected at all....yet depict a lot of things happening (it's a very busy film) nothing much actually happens.   I'd say the big questions we had from 'The Force Awakens' mostly remain unanswered (or in one case, dismissed rather than answered!), and this films asks a couple of new ones.  Anyone expecting a film darker in tone probably won't be happy - there is a lot of slapstick in this film (tonally I actually got a Marvel vibe).

At the end I feel it's a bit of a placeholder, albeit a interesting placeholder, happy to stall the story for the 3rd part.   Not as enjoyable as 'Force Awakens' for me. 
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Polarbear on December 14, 2017, 04:53:20 AM
It is a weird movie, that's for sure!

But, i'm finding myself enjoying it more and more as i think about it. It throws a curveball to the Star Wars fans and puts them out of their comfort zone. And i like that!

I enjoyed the central themes of the film, but let's not go to the spoilers just yet! It doesn't open in the America until tomorrow, correct?
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: IDontNotDoThings on December 14, 2017, 05:13:25 AM
Okay, hold on, can we just talk about how freakin' good this movie was? I just came back from seeing it, & honestly, (while I'm by no means one to judge the accurate quality of a film), the level of tension I felt in this movie rivaled that of when I saw Empire for the first time. I'll admit I went in with very little hype (I've ignored most of the press surrounding the movie) & I'm by no means a die-hard Star Wars fan, but I think this movie delivered in every front it could've for me & it's hard to say I've ever been more exhilarated by a Star Wars movie in my life (again, besides maybe Empire).  :hefdaddy :hefdaddy :hefdaddy :hefdaddy

So anyway, what'd you guys think of it?
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: soupytwist on December 14, 2017, 05:43:09 AM


So anyway, what'd you guys think of it?

As my previous post.  I think I'd give it a 6/10 - It was interesting and fun but ultimately didn't really do much, and the slapstick was over the top - then there is Leia's space Mary Poppins sequence that is probably the worse Star Wars moment since that conversation about sand.   Also there were a couple of unexpected moments, that I didn't see coming - but actually felt flat.

Not sure if we are doing spoilers in here or not....but to be safe.

Snoke - really, that's it?  and Luke is just totally wasted, his hologram fight/death is a massive WTF moment.

I get the feeling it's going to be a very marmite film with the real hardcore fans.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: IDontNotDoThings on December 14, 2017, 06:26:11 AM


So anyway, what'd you guys think of it?

As my previous post.  I think I'd give it a 6/10 - It was interesting and fun but ultimately didn't really do much, and the slapstick was over the top - then there is Leia's space Mary Poppins sequence that is probably the worse Star Wars moment since that conversation about sand.   Also there were a couple of unexpected moments, that I didn't see coming - but actually felt flat.

Not sure if we are doing spoilers in here or not....but to be safe.

Snoke - really, that's it?  and Luke is just totally wasted, his hologram fight/death is a massive WTF moment.

I get the feeling it's going to be a very marmite film with the real hardcore fans.

I'll respond to in tiny-text mode because I don't think the thread's spoiler-ready yet,

Honestly I wasn't too bothered by Leia's space-force-thing scene, but I can see why some others may find it odd (it was certainly paced weirdly). & to be honest, I thought Luke's final few scenes were some of the highlights. Yeah, I'll admit it was really weird seeing him survive the full onslaught empty handed (hell, I think even the movie itself made fun of it), but I think when that twist that it was a spirit was finally revealed, it sort of gave a last "ohhh shit what a twist" moment of the film while his actual death at the end still gave closure to the whole "wtf why isn't he dead" mentality that enters your mind when you first watch the scenes. Plus I feel like part of it was in response to people calling Rey overpowered in ep 7, where this time when a character seemed to have what seemed like the ultimate overpowered moment, it still resolves with the closure of knowing that that's all he could save within himself & that we know he was able to push himself to the limit to save everyone at the end.

As for Snoke, yeah, that was totally a shock, but I never felt it as a "really? that's it?" moment because of how much buildup was put into that scene. I feel like it was just the right amount where you knew something big was about to happen but there weren't quite enough clues to make it totally obvious. Plus with all that happening & with the "holyshititssilentandtheresanexplosionandalaserwentthroughtheshipohmygod" part afterwards, I honestly felt like it was the true climax of the movie, which is the main criticism I'll give it - it feels like the part around the 2hr mark is the overall climax part of the film &
 the continuance on from that point had to do a lot to get me back into again. But like I said, it was definitely a satisfying set of events once it picked up again.

Okay I'll stop gushing about this movie, but you get the point, I really liked it & I didn't feel like the flaws were as pronounced as I'm sure some fans will make them out to be (not that there's anything wrong with that, they just didn't bother me as much personally).


So yeah  :corn
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Logain Ablar on December 14, 2017, 06:31:28 AM
I totally agree, soupy. I said to the guys in work this morning it was a 6/10 as well.

That amount of slapstick humour has no place in a Star Wars movie, in my view. The odd moment, yes ok, but this was far too much. I was cringing within the first 5 mins at a particular thing.

There were good points too, but overall I'd say that for me at least, it's worse that TFA.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: BlobVanDam on December 14, 2017, 06:43:16 AM
SPOILERS BECAUSE FUCK SMALL FONT AND IF YOU'RE COMING INTO A THREAD CALLED THE LAST JEDI AND GET MAD ABOUT SPOILERS IT'S YOUR OWN FAULT :biggrin:



I thought it was ok. Story-wise, I sorta don't feel it justified the run time, but on the other hand, it didn't feel bloated at all and was well paced throughout, so I guess it was fine.
The movie definitely had unexpected turns, but I'm not sure how I feel about some of those. The stuff with Snoke, and Rey's past/lineage felt like they undermined what was set up in TFA (unless that was a swerve for now), and it didn't set up enough of its own points imo. Also, the humour was very oddly placed and for me hurt many if not most scenes, at least in the first 2/3 of the film. Every scene you knew they would deflate the moment with some predictable sitcom humour. After the start with Hux, I got this sinking feeling with Rey/Luke meeting that they'd do something similarly silly, then when the music stopped I knew it was coming, and then he just tosses the lightsabre. I actually groaned out loud there. Also it again undermined TFA. Not that I was in love with TFA, but I think they hurt the trilogy with some of their choices. I feel like the humour got wedged in there to make it more family friendly, but I found it too jarring. Star Wars should be fun, but there's also a time and a place for it. Too many scenes had that obvious joke setup and instant predictable payoff.

On the plus side, the Porgs were fine, and used fairly well as comic relief. I liked how much the resistance took a beating, and how Poe learned from it. The reunion between Luke and Leia was touching especially in light of Carrie Fisher's death. I can see why they didn't make any changes to kill her off in this movie, given Luke's ending. Yoda's cameo was fun. Nice to see the classic puppet look and movement.

Overall, I definitely enjoyed it, but I didn't love it. I'd give it 6 or 7/10, depending on how generous I'm feeling.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Polarbear on December 14, 2017, 07:14:27 AM
Full spoiler mode ahead, click away if have not seen it!

As i said, i like it more as i think about it!

One of the things that i enjoyed so much in this film, was the theme of heroes and family.

Two years people have been speculating about Rey's parentage, how can she be so powerful? She must be related to this or that. In the end, it didn't matter where she came from. She came from nothing, her parents were abusive drunks who sold her to that junk dealer for some gambling money! She ended up becoming The Last Jedi.

Rose also comes from nothing, yet she also becomes a hero in the end after saving Finn! That slave boy on the casino planet also can become a hero one day, after being inspired by Rose.

It doesn't matter where you come from, everyone can be a hero! Whether it be Rey, Rose or that boy in the stables at the end..

Movie isn't perfect but i loved that subtle theme that ran across the film!

Film is 8/10 for me at the moment.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: twosuitsluke on December 14, 2017, 08:11:24 AM
**Spoilers**

I agree a lot about many moments being jarring and taking me out of the moment. The lightsaber toss was really annoying actually, it totally undermined TFA.

This was the message I sent my friend after seeing it this morning:

Yea, some of the comedy missed the mark. Try as I might, I can't really like Poe as a character. You are spot on with Kylo Ren and his development. The scene with Smoke dying was also awesome. Bit of an anticlimax in regards to building Snoke up to be the main villain! Some of the plot was daft though. Like the slow chase as the resistance ship runs outta fuel, really lame. LOVED the Yoda force ghost scene, they fucking nailed it! Also loved a few of the call backs, like the Falcon going through the underground cave mimicking the death star run in RotJ (including the music) and the final scene with Luke calling back to the Tatooine scene in A New Hope where he's staring at the two suns 😍 biggest 'WTF' though was Leia being some sort of fucking God, where she can survive in space and that bullshit. It was ridiculous and NOT Star Wars! Just because you are a force user it doesn't mean that you can breathe in space and your body won't die from freezing temperatures. You are still a mortal!
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Logain Ablar on December 14, 2017, 08:26:27 AM
I'm glad they didn't make Rey related to the Skywalker line in any way. I think that would have been too obvious.

One of the things that i enjoyed so much in this film, was the theme of heroes and family.

Two years people have been speculating about Rey's parentage, how can she be so powerful? She must be related to this or that. In the end, it didn't matter where she came from. She came from nothing, her parents were abusive drunks who sold her to that junk dealer for some gambling money! She ended up becoming The Last Jedi.

Rose also comes from nothing, yet she also becomes a hero in the end after saving Finn! That slave boy on the casino planet also can become a hero one day, after being inspired by Rose.

It doesn't matter where you come from, everyone can be a hero! Whether it be Rey, Rose or that boy in the stables at the end..

I hear what you're saying, and I did like the Rose character, her link to her sister on the bomber, and her rescue of Finn. I think that was fine, and even inspiring the young boy. But, showing the boy using the force with the broom was a step too far. I think it's fine to say that everyone can be a hero in their own way, but it seemed to me like they were implying that anyone can be a Jedi, and I'd have a problem with that.

Now that we're not caring about spoilers, some more in-depth thoughts:

What I liked


What I didn't like


What I'm on the fence about
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: gborland on December 14, 2017, 10:41:01 AM
I did not like that stupid pointless diversion in the middle. Casino and horse racing? Fuck off. Also the final Oliver Twist scene: this is supposed to be fucking Star Wars. Did we not learn from The Phantom Menace that kids in Star Wars just DOES NOT WORK?

Honestly they could have cut 30 minutes out of the middle and it would have been a better film.

I did like some of it, though.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Kattelox on December 14, 2017, 10:42:13 AM
Since I won't see it til Christmas and I'm not deeply invested in Star Wars hype, I spoiled some big points of this movie for me. I really hope it's more entertaining than what I'm reading, because this sounds like it's near prequel levels of disaster for some characters and the lore.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: IDontNotDoThings on December 14, 2017, 05:40:11 PM
***spoilers***

One thing I also noticed was that I found Rose's character a lot more interesting than the main 3, despite this being (afaik) her debut. It's a real shame they killed her off near the end because I was honestly looking forward to her character developing further.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Accelerando on December 14, 2017, 11:49:58 PM
Itís going to be really interesting to see what happens from here, because Kathleen Kennedy implied episode 9 was suppose to be, out of the original cast, Leiaís time to shine. This is probably an unpopular opinion, but I rather have a recast than any CGI make up. Carrie will always be our Princess, no matter what.

Iím still digesting this film...i need a another viewing. There were a lot of moments I loved, and a few that I didnít care about....

And everyoneís Snoke theory did indeed, suck.

And I think Kylo was toying with Rey about her lineage.

Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Polarbear on December 14, 2017, 11:55:03 PM
I'm going for round.2 with The Last Jedi on Monday!

I love that this is becoming a controversial film!
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: lonestar on December 15, 2017, 12:21:40 AM
As I posted elsewhere, I thoroughly enjoyed it, but then again I'm a total sucker for SW films. I even liked TFA man.


Best parts- I actually was all for the whole development of Kylo killing Snoke to become the supreme master, and immediately trying to get Rey as his apprentice, thought that was a very interesting twist that made this trilogy it's own. Visuals were outstanding, highlights being the salt planet with the red dirt underneath, and when they nailed Snoke's ship, that was fucking cool as hell. (really liked how they killed the sound so you can hear all the peeps in the theater going "Holy shit" and "fuck yeah!!!"). Rose's character was awesome, and she had the best line in the movie ("Not about destroying those you hate, but saving those you love...").

Bad Parts- I agree with the humor, trying to hard in all the wrong places, especially with Luke, he's way to flippant for someone with that type of baggage to carry, that was a blown opportunity for a real emotional redemption. Finn in the leaking water suit was painful to watch, can't believe the director watched that again and said "yup, that's a keeper...". And yeah, Leah should never had made it out of outer space, that was just lame, they surely could've written that one better.


And anyone who didn't like the Porgs has no soul. :heart
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Logain Ablar on December 15, 2017, 01:49:17 AM
I'll be seeing it again next Saturday, so it will be interesting to see if my opinions soften on it.

The porgs were fine, and played such a small part anyway that it didn't really matter. Chewy sweeping the porg from the console of the Falcon was more like classic SW humour to me. Just simple beats that temporarily relieve the tension of a scene. Not this hipster humour

The part where Chewy is about to tuck into a delicious looking roast dinner, and one of the porgs is looking on as if it's some sort of close family relation, that was ok, but just was dragged out too long and ruined the moment. Anyway, would Chewy not prefer his meat raw, like in ROTJ where they end up trapped in the cargo net?

My thought for this morning is: space bombers dropping bombs above their target in zero gravity? Maybe I'm overthinking this..  :lol

I'm glad others enjoyed it and I don't meant to spoil it for anyone. Each to their own and all that..
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: soupytwist on December 15, 2017, 02:54:52 AM
Lot of negativity on the net this morning regarding this film - those 'Disney buys positive reviews' comments cropping up again  :corn  ::)

Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: XJDenton on December 15, 2017, 03:31:47 AM
My thought for this morning is: space bombers dropping bombs above their target in zero gravity? Maybe I'm overthinking this..  :lol

Star war space battles have always played out more like naval battles than actual space battles, and have priorities visual clarity (at least if you ignore the prequels) over realistic physics and tactics.

The more I think over this film, the more and more I like the fact it took the lore in unexpected directions. There are some choices I wouldn't have made but overall I think its quite a strong addition, although I can understand why some hardcore fans might dislike it.

That being said :

Jesus christ that hyperdrive suicide ramming scene was awesome. Possibly one of the best moments in star wars.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: BlobVanDam on December 15, 2017, 03:36:12 AM
That bit bothered me a bit too, and the girl not being sucked out of the ship along with the bombs (I assume they don't have the shieldy things?).
But it's plausible that the bombs had some limited propulsion to get them up to speed? (but not enough for mid-space maneuvering to change trajectory)
The thing with Leia coming back from space via the force was the bigger issue for me. I think the force in general was used in some weird ways imo. I don't know how the EU treated this stuff, but the force has just become a story shortcut.

Yes, the ram was awesome.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: XJDenton on December 15, 2017, 03:38:25 AM
See, that didn't bother me at all. It's essentially just a force pull, but pulling a massive object in zero-G, which would make you move.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Logain Ablar on December 15, 2017, 03:43:05 AM
Agreed on the ramming thing. The fact that they cut the sound completely made it all the more powerful.

I liked the Holdo character. I just wish there was a little more made of the conflict between her and Poe.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: twosuitsluke on December 15, 2017, 04:00:12 AM
It's not even Leia force pulling herself back to the ship. It's the fact that the Force somehow allowed her to survive in space in unimagineably cold temperatures and, you know, being in a vacuum! I don't mind (too much) some of the other force stuff that we saw in this movie, that had never been part of Star Wars lore. But the Leia thing infuriates me. She's not even a strong force user (not that I think anyone should be able to do what she did). She was sucked out into space and then unconscious! Even if you could do something to survive in space using the force (which I call bullshit on) she was unconscious! It make it look more like there was divine intervention or some bullshit. The more I think about it the more it annoys me. Luke, Vader, the emperor, they were all mortal men who could be killed like any other. If you are going to make force users more like gods then I'll be pissed off with where they take the films next!

Rant over.......for now
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: BlobVanDam on December 15, 2017, 04:03:08 AM
It's not even Leia force pulling herself back to the ship. It's the fact that the Force somehow allowed her to survive in space in unimagineably cold temperatures and, you know, being in a vacuum! I don't mind (too much) some of the other force stuff that we saw in this movie, that had never been part of Star Wars lore. But the Leia thing infuriates me. She's not even a strong force user (not that I think anyone should be able to do what she did). She was sucked out into space and then unconscious! Even if you could do something to survive in space using the force (which I call bullshit on) she was unconscious! It make it look more like there was divine intervention or some bullshit. The more I think about it the more it annoys me. Luke, Vader, the emperor, they were all mortal men who could be killed like any other. If you are going to make force users more like gods then I'll be pissed off with where they take the films next!

Rant over.......for now

Basically that was my issue. The move itself wasn't a problem, it was the circumstances of being pulled out into space and unconscious/dead, and Leia not being a force user as far as we've been shown, just force sensitive.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: twosuitsluke on December 15, 2017, 04:28:32 AM
It's not even Leia force pulling herself back to the ship. It's the fact that the Force somehow allowed her to survive in space in unimagineably cold temperatures and, you know, being in a vacuum! I don't mind (too much) some of the other force stuff that we saw in this movie, that had never been part of Star Wars lore. But the Leia thing infuriates me. She's not even a strong force user (not that I think anyone should be able to do what she did). She was sucked out into space and then unconscious! Even if you could do something to survive in space using the force (which I call bullshit on) she was unconscious! It make it look more like there was divine intervention or some bullshit. The more I think about it the more it annoys me. Luke, Vader, the emperor, they were all mortal men who could be killed like any other. If you are going to make force users more like gods then I'll be pissed off with where they take the films next!

Rant over.......for now

Basically that was my issue. The move itself wasn't a problem, it was the circumstances of being pulled out into space and unconscious/dead, and Leia not being a force user as far as we've been shown, just force sensitive.

Good point. I'm pretty sure in the EU she trained and was able to use the force but in the films she's only ever been shown to be force sensitive. That was partly why I didn't like the bit with the kids force grabbing the broom at the end. In Star Wars lore (up until this point) you have to be trained to be able to do shit like that. No one just DOES it. Actually Rey was the first to just DO stuff in TFA, with no training. But I didn't mind that as much as she was shown to be way stronger than any other untrained force user. Plus the force had awoken in her, she was special (potentially the real chosen one to bring balance to the force). Unless this kid is in the next film (and a total badass) this doesn't sit well with me.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Logain Ablar on December 15, 2017, 04:37:44 AM
I don't really care for any of the EU stuff, but agree about the kid with the broom thing. Luke and even Anakin had to be trained to tap into the force, and it seemed like very few people could actually do it.

Implying that anyone can be a Jedi kinda weakens the whole purpose of the Jedi order and religion.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: IDontNotDoThings on December 15, 2017, 05:07:07 AM
That was partly why I didn't like the bit with the kids force grabbing the broom at the end. In Star Wars lore (up until this point) you have to be trained to be able to do shit like that. No one just DOES it.

I mean, unless I remember it wrong, the only thing the kid did was hold up a broom. Last I checked, you don't need the force to do that  :lol
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: kaos2900 on December 15, 2017, 07:21:35 AM
Saw it last night and LOVED it! Easily the best Star Wars films since Empire and honestly it might end up being my new favorite. I definitely plan on seeing it again. I didn't mind the humor and didn't find it forced at all. Poe chiding Hux was a stalling maneuver so there was an actual reason for him doing that. I initially felt a little let down about Rey's parents but the more I think about it I think it was the right choice and goes a long with the theme of the film. I'll admit that the Leigh space scene threw me, but maybe in the face of death she was able to tap into the force. I also had no problem with Luke tossing the light saber. 

Now for the double edged sword. I think killing Snoke was an amazing move and totally unexpected and following fight with Rey/Kylo vs. Snokes gaurds was fantastic. With that being said who the hell was Snoke? I think that is really the only unanswered question from episode 7 so I really hope that they dive into that in episode 9. My theory is that Sidious cloned himself and that Snoke will be back again as another clone in 9. We'll see.

Any predictions for Episode 9? All signs point that it will be the conclusion of the Skywalker Saga and all future films will be focused on something else. I'm assuming the remaining rebels take down the first order, rey builds a new jedi temple since the texts survived and trains a new generation of Jedi. I'm also assuming that there will be a pretty decent time jump between 8 & 9.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: ronnibran on December 15, 2017, 08:28:54 AM
Spoilers (obviously)


Disappointed here.  Maybe after seeing it again I'll warm up to it a bit.  The weird "twists" and Leia surviving in space, etc. didn't bother me, nor did the humor.  I felt the movie was missing "something" that every other Star Wars movie had.  No interesting back stories (except for the Luke/Kylo thing, but I don't know that I even really "buy" that as an "oh that makes sense" thing).  One of my favorite things in Star Wars is the bad guys and how they turn evil but now it turns out that Snoke has no back story and was beaten by someone who couldn't even beat someone who had no force related training...

All other Star Wars movies make you think, make you wonder about characters and where they're from, how they came to be who they are, etc.  This one kind of just was a glimpse into a moment of time...  I thought the ending was cheesy as hell also, "oh, it's not about just Jedi, let's just show one random kid and imply that anyone can feel the force".  I know I'm speculating, maybe he didn't even have force sensibilities and maybe was just inspired by the resistance ring.

I did however, like the Yoda part, I thought that part was written and done well.  They still didn't develop Rey's character very well I think either.  Is she wholly good?  Somewhere between?  What motivates her?  We know far more about Kylo than we do Rey.  IMO at least.

<edit> One more thing.  The ending may as well have been the ending to Episode 9.  It feels "over", there's no suspense left or things that make you excited for the next film.  It feels like it may as well have been a good ending for a trilogy or stand alone film.  Again, just my opinion and personal feelings.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: gmillerdrake on December 15, 2017, 08:43:02 AM
Saw it last night and I liked the movie. I'd have liked to seen a bit less of the casino excursion and more of Luke/Rey 'training' or whatever it was she was doing with him. I don't think you can call it outright training.....and they cleverly covered that hole in her abilities by having Yoda tell Luke there was nothing in the books in the temple that wasn't already in Rey.

The Leah space force deal was just dumb though. Seriously, the film would be that much better had that scene never happened...and I'm confused as to how that even made it past the 'I have an idea' part of brainstorming a sequence. It'd have been better had they blown the bridge up and she'd have just been severely injured that way. Just a silly story point overall.

I like the fact they didn't try to tie Rey to Obi Wan or Luke or anyone we know. It'd have been a tough story to tell and they'd have tied their hands with any future shoot off stories had it been someone 'close' to the main characters or original cast. It didn't bother me that Rey is a random person chosen by the Force yet I have a feeling Kylo was lying to her to get her to side with him and that her parentage will probably be more significant than they let on.

I was however bummed we didn't get any answer as to who Snoke was or how he was able to have been around and seen so much and be so powerful. I loved the death scene of his and fight....it was awesome and you could feel it coming....but to not have gotten a clue as to his origin was a bummer. Maybe they'll address it in the next film.

I would have liked to have seen Luke in a realistic battle and show off some major Jedi skills but I guess the skill he demonstrated was the ultimate top tier skill a Jedi can learn. Having him choose to face down Ren in that fashion to prove a point to him and then choose to transcend his physical body and join the ranks of Yoda and Obi Wan seemed fitting. Just wish they'd have spent that half hour of the casino side show on Luke rather than some horses and stable boys if that was the case. I felt like he wasn't given a 'proper' send off.

Anyone else notice that the scene in the Falcon at the end when Finn opened a drawer that all the old Jedi manuals and books were stacked in it? They were all in there so apparently Rey must have taken them without Luke knowing.

Is it possible that Luke knew Rey would have to free the resistance by lifting all the rocks when he told her that knowing the Force is more than lifting Rocks? I think that was intentional and could have shown Luke had forseen it.

Both Hux and Ren botched their chances at crushing the Rebels and ending it all due to their arrogance. Hux by ignoring the turning ship and focusing on the escape pods and Ren by focusing solely on Luke.

I guess the Red Guards were the Knights of Ren....the student Ren had enlisted from Luke's temple? If so, then Ren and Rey have wiped them out.

I just assumed the bombs were magnetized and was why they dropped instead of floating off.

I doubt that's the last you'll see of Benicio Del Torro's character. He's like a Choatic Nuetral Han Solo.


All in all I'd say 7/10 for me. I'm gonna see it again sunday with the kiddos, that'll allow me to take a closer listen and look at some sections. But, I wasn't floored by the movie but certainly wasn't disappointed. Solid SW movie in my eyes and leagues better than any of the prequels.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: lonestar on December 15, 2017, 10:34:10 AM
I agree completely on that last part. I wanted an ending that'd leave me burning in suspense for two years, without any hole for the resistance. Maybe somewhere around where the cannon was blowing through the door, a truly hopeless scenario.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: faizoff on December 15, 2017, 11:04:50 AM
Saw it last night as well and man, when everyone said it was really different, they were right. The more I think of this movie the more I love it and I think will be one of the best in the series for me. I think I like it more than Force Awakens already. I'd say it's a 9/10 right now.

Going to see it again for sure. The only rant I have right now is against the 3D projectionist who didn't adjust the brightness, things were so dark in some scenes that I couldn't see the faces clearly. I'm never seeing any more movies in 3D again and my friend apparently bought it by mistake thinking they were all regular shows.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: MetalJunkie on December 15, 2017, 11:05:08 AM
Only thing I didn't really like was Leia Supermanning through space. Fucking. Dumb. I'm Carrie Poppins, y'all!
Everything else I could deal with.

Yoda
The Leia recording
Kylo/Rey fight
Luke wtfpwning at the end

all gave me raging boners.

Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: kaos2900 on December 15, 2017, 12:22:07 PM
I think this movie felt more like Star Wars movie than anything since Empire. It checked all of the boxes for me. And while it wasn't a cliffhanger like the end of TFA, I really have no idea what the final film is going to be. My biggest disappointment is not knowing who the hell Snoke is. I really hope that is explained.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Implode on December 15, 2017, 12:49:52 PM
Thought the movie as a bloated mess with far too much unnecessary wank and drawn out pointless plot points.

That said, there were still amazing things that happened in the movie. If it we're trimmed down to half the length, I'm sure it could've been as strong as VII. For now I give it like 5/10.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Polarbear on December 15, 2017, 01:48:29 PM
Leia flying through space could have been little less cheesy, but i'm fine with it.

I'm predicting that the next movie takes place many years after The Last Jedi. Leia has died of old age. Rey has to jumpstart the new jedi order, she did steal the old jedi books after all. And everyone has to band together to defeat the Emperor Ben, and his new First Order/Empire.

I also have a sneaking feeling that Snoke is not done somehow. Maybe he comes back as a evil force ghost, or something...
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: IDontNotDoThings on December 15, 2017, 03:09:17 PM
@ people saying the ending was too satisfying

Yeah, I'll honestly agree with this. I kept thinking they were going to leave a cliffhanger where Kylo & Ren were face to face, but then again that would've left everyone confused about how he survive everything that was fired at him so idk. Like I said, I loved the movie, but there was some points where it felt like it could've ended but kept going anyway.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Implode on December 15, 2017, 03:51:37 PM
It really felt like they didn't know how to end the movie.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: twosuitsluke on December 15, 2017, 05:27:32 PM
That was partly why I didn't like the bit with the kids force grabbing the broom at the end. In Star Wars lore (up until this point) you have to be trained to be able to do shit like that. No one just DOES it.

I mean, unless I remember it wrong, the only thing the kid did was hold up a broom. Last I checked, you don't need the force to do that  :lol

No, as he walked out he held his hand out and the broom came to him, he force grabbed it.

About Rey's lineage, although there is a possibility that Kylo was right that her parents were nobodies, there's a greater chance he was fucking with her. He wanted her to join him, what better way than to make her feel like he was the only one there for her.

Only thing I didn't really like was Leia Supermanning through space. Fucking. Dumb. I'm Carrie Poppins, y'all!

Totally this. I just felt there was absolutely zero need for this scene to happen!

Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: jammindude on December 15, 2017, 05:50:38 PM
 I canít believe any of you are buying into Kylo Renís version of Raiís parentage. To me, it IMMEDIATELY seemed like a ploy. The first thing any abuser will do to gain control is to destroy  your entire history to make you think that they are the only things in your life.  He was trying to beat her down emotionally so that she would feel worthless without him.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: lonestar on December 15, 2017, 06:05:29 PM
It really felt like they didn't know how to end the movie.

Yeah, it almost seemed like they didn't want to leave any loose ends,yet the best part of epV was that big ass loose end of Vader /father.

Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Accelerando on December 15, 2017, 11:07:26 PM
I canít believe any of you are buying into Kylo Renís version of Raiís parentage. To me, it IMMEDIATELY seemed like a ploy. The first thing any abuser will do to gain control is to destroy  your entire history to make you think that they are the only things in your life.  He was trying to beat her down emotionally so that she would feel worthless without him.

100%
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Zantera on December 16, 2017, 02:07:07 AM
Do we honestly NEED for Rey to be a Skywalker or Kenobi though? I thought what we got on her parents was satisfying in its own right. Sure, I won't lie, if it was revealed that she was a Kenobi I probably would have gone crazy and loved that too, but I don't mind her coming from just a normal lineage.

Overall I thought TLJ was really great, some minor issues (like that casino subplot) but overall really good. Not sure if I liked it as much as TFA, but still a really great movie.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: BlobVanDam on December 16, 2017, 02:26:06 AM
Do we honestly NEED for Rey to be a Skywalker or Kenobi though? I thought what we got on her parents was satisfying in its own right. Sure, I won't lie, if it was revealed that she was a Kenobi I probably would have gone crazy and loved that too, but I don't mind her coming from just a normal lineage.

I'm not keen on her being related to Skywalker/Kenobi either, but with the buildup and hype surrounding her past, as well as how insanely quick she has taken to using the Force and being drawn to the saber etc, the current explanation of being the daughter of some random deadbeats isn't satisfying imo.
I'd like there to be a better backstory revealed in the next movie, hopefully something that isn't so obvious as long lost second cousin of Obi-wan though.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: TheOutlawXanadu on December 16, 2017, 05:44:35 AM
What an odd film. I really enjoyed watching it, but I also left the theater thoroughly baffled by what I saw. Need to see again. Couldnít rate right now if I tried.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Zantera on December 16, 2017, 06:44:16 AM
The movie took some risks and deserves a lot of praise for that. There were issues but I feel like overall it worked pretty well. A lot of criticisms I see are rooted in what people expected VS what they got, and to me it's always a poor excuse to be mad at something because it wasn't what you thought in your head going into it. A good example was Luke. There was plenty of people who probably expected this Vader-hallway scene of Luke completely dominating 20-30 first order guys and coming in to rescue Rey against Ren/Snoke, instead we got a scene reminiscent of Obi-Wan vs Vader in a New Hope where the duel isn't about winning or losing but rather the sacrifice means something. Some people will be mad because Luke is gone and won't be there again to have that "badass moment", but in the context of the film I thought his exit worked and he filled the role that the movie needed him to fill.

There's a lot of things you can dissect and point out, for example what happened with C3PO's red arm? And I thought it was weird how TLJ didn't seem to care much about certain things set up as big mysteries in TFA (Rey's parents, the origin/identity of Snoke, the other Knights of Ren) and some were brushed over, but I also feel like Episode 9 might help to explain things. Hard to get the full picture without the final piece. Leia floating through space like Superman didn't work for me and I thought the whole Casino subplot could have been cut out, but other than that there were some excellent scenes in here, and overall the movie was really great.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: BlobVanDam on December 16, 2017, 07:12:09 AM
I see a lot of people defending the criticism of it just not being what people expected, but I haven't actually personally seen many criticize it for that at all.

The problem for me was more with how they told that story rather than the story they chose, and a lot of the details just not being consistent with what is established, and not capitalizing on what TFA set up, but instead undoing it. And the humour was added to the film in a way that wasn't natural, and hurt so many important moments that should have been serious. It took me out of the film. When a film makes me groan out loud within the first ten minutes, it's a bad sign.

I think the overall plot was just fine, and there were a lot of good scenes, but I don't think they knew how to tell this story most effectively and got some details very wrong for the bigger picture imo. Maybe it was too many cooks in the kitchen trying to appeal to the mass audience, or maybe it didn't quite fit Rian Johnson. TFA and Rogue One were both very enjoyable films for me, but this movie makes me concerned for the franchise going forward, and I'm not even a SW fanatic.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: YtseJam on December 16, 2017, 08:22:17 AM
I agree with so much of what I read in this thread but a couple of things that kind of irked me:

The CGI - Snoke was very cheesy looking. A main character should be more realistic, the CGI made him a joke. All of the flying around looked corny too. Princess Leia flying through space like the wicked witch was silly. Yoda looked cheap too. I felt like the CGI was better in the force awakens.

You can tell the Disney execs had their hands in this movie far too much.

In general the movie could have cut the fat and been a deeper and darker film if it had focused more on the characters.

One last thing, the ending was unnecessary even if they are using it as a setup for future story lines, it felt out of place and ruined the mood. It was good but not great.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: BlobVanDam on December 16, 2017, 08:25:13 AM
One last thing, the ending was unnecessary even if they are using it as a setup for future story lines, it felt out of place and ruined the mood. It was good but not great.

I didn't like that either. It felt kinda tacked on to end it on a more positive note perhaps. And to place it at such a point in the film, it better be really important, but it didn't feel like it was. Maybe they'll bring it back at some point, but I don't feel like it's meant to have any bearing on IX.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: lordxizor on December 16, 2017, 08:34:07 AM
Saw it yesterday and I liked it. It did not live up to my wildest hopes and dreams which has left me feeling a little disappointed, but it was extremely unlikely to do that. It had me on the edge of my seal for the last third of the movie or so, which was good. I plan on seeing it again in the next couple weeks.

The issues I had while watching it:
The caretakers and the milking seal things were completely unnecessary.
Leia should have died in space or never gotten sucked out in the first place, that super-Leia thing was stupid.
The scene with Maz was stupid and unnecessary.
The casino part dragged a bit and really could have been left out altogether.
I wish they would have used Phasma better.

Issues I've thought of since:
I really hope that both Snoke's and Rey's back stories don't get swept under the rug. I'm ok with one, but not both. You can't set something up like that in the first movie and then just brush it off as if it doesn't matter. I suspect Kylo wasn't being truthful with Rey.
Maybe it was tacky given Carrie Fisher's death to have Leia die, but I wish they would have had Leia do the suicide run instead of that new admiral. Then let her take Leia's place in Ep. 9.

Thoughts on Ep. 9:
I'm guessing they'll have several years in between 8 and 9 in order for the Resistance to grow again. They set up a younger generation of rebels, so they need to grow up to contribute.
I'm guessing Leia will have died off-screen during the in between time, but I'll be interested to see how they address it.
Luke will obviously come back as a force ghost to complete Rey's training.
I think one of two things will happen: Ben Solo is redeemed and comes to the light side or Rey somehow has Skywalker blood. I think Disney will continue on past Ep 9 and there needs to be a Skywalker in order to do that. They have stated explicitly that the main Saga is about the Skywalkers.
I'll be annoyed if they don't explain how Maz got Luke's lightsaber. They set that up and then had a dumb cameo basically of Maz in 8 so we don't forget about her.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: BlobVanDam on December 16, 2017, 08:48:05 AM
Maybe it was tacky given Carrie Fisher's death to have Leia die, but I wish they would have had Leia do the suicide run instead of that new admiral. Then let her take Leia's place in Ep. 9.

I think it came down to a couple of reasons why they didn't go that route. First of all, having both Luke and Leia go in the same film might have been too bold a move. And secondly, they may have needed CGI to make such a change, and that might have seemed tacky with Carrie Fisher's death being relatively recent. I think it was a better tribute to her to leave her part in the movie intact, and plan it from day 1 in IX instead. I think they made the better choice here, although I wish they could have removed the being sucked out into space thing afterwards, because it felt a little cheap in hindsight.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: jammindude on December 16, 2017, 09:22:34 AM
I think the humor in the opening scene worked because that type of humor has already been established as being a part of Poe's character.  I.e....so, do you go first or do I talk first?   He just has that type of disarming snarkiness in tense situations.  It's a part of who he is.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: BlobVanDam on December 16, 2017, 09:35:26 AM
I think the humor in the opening scene worked because that type of humor has already been established as being a part of Poe's character.  I.e....so, do you go first or do I talk first?   He just has that type of disarming snarkiness in tense situations.  It's a part of who he is.

I agree it's part of who he is, and that he would try that in that situation, but on the other hand, I think the way Hux reacted to it was poor and damaged his character at an important point in the film, and I don't think it was something they should have opened with. Just imo.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Logain Ablar on December 16, 2017, 09:38:33 AM
I think the humor in the opening scene worked because that type of humor has already been established as being a part of Poe's character.  I.e....so, do you go first or do I talk first?   He just has that type of disarming snarkiness in tense situations.  It's a part of who he is.

That ďwho talks first?Ē bit bothered me in TFA as well, but here it was dialled up to 11 in that first scene. It just smacked of Buffy type humour rather than what weíre used to in SW. Iíve seen it described as ďhashtag humourĒ, which is probably a good description.

Iím probably too old to appreciate it.  :lol
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Implode on December 16, 2017, 09:42:12 AM
In TFA the same gag worked much better because Kylo was still intimidating in that scene. He still had all the power. He kept his composure and ignored him. Poe's snark was his way of rebelling and giving him the middle finger.

In TLJ Hux was made out to be a weenie buffoon because of that. So it immediately took away all the tension and drama for me. He became like a silly person you couldn't take seriously.

So agreed. The joke fell flat for me, not because of Poe's delivery but because of Hux's response. It actually would've worked better as a completely serious scene imo.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: jammindude on December 16, 2017, 10:09:39 AM
Hux always came across as a whiny little bitch to me anyway.  Even in TFA, he just reminded me of Rowan Atkinson's Black Adder character.   Or Rimmer from Red Dwarf.  Just a wimpy weasel who happened to get a promotion.   I thought him being bamboozled was perfect for his character, and Kylo making him his bitch at the end was particularly satisfying. 
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: lordxizor on December 16, 2017, 10:15:32 AM
I thought that opening scene worked well. It maybe drug on a hair too long, but I think it fit well with Poe's character.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: BlobVanDam on December 16, 2017, 10:15:52 AM
Hux always came across as a whiny little bitch to me anyway.  Even in TFA, he just reminded me of Rowan Atkinson's Black Adder character.   Or Rimmer from Red Dwarf.  Just a wimpy weasel who happened to get a promotion.   I thought him being bamboozled was perfect for his character, and Kylo making him his bitch at the end was particularly satisfying. 

That would be fine if he wasn't the leader pursuing our main heroes and a driving force behind the entire film. I think it diminished the seriousness of the situation.
I do agree it was fine from Poe's perspective though.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Implode on December 16, 2017, 10:50:58 AM
Yeah Hux is portrayed as a whiney child and so is Kylo....

So now our main villains are children? :/
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: ronnibran on December 16, 2017, 11:01:09 AM
So Monday at work we were going to have some huge discussion about our theories on the movie and where we think the main story is headed.  Going to be a short discussion, TLJ didn't really leave any exciting things to think about. 

But that aside, I think once I see it again I'll warm up to it a bit.  Maybe I was expecting it to be too much like The Force Awakens, which I thought was amazing.  And I think episode 9 now has kind of a blank canvass where they can take that in almost any direction.  Based on how much I liked TFA I'm kind of glad JJ Abrams is behind Ep 9.  Maybe they'll give the interesting back stories that TLJ was missing. 

My biggest complaint is that Snoke kind of was nobody, you never learned anything about him.  I was so intrigued when he started talking about how he wanted to make Kylo the next Vader and then that conversation ended immediately and never went anywhere.  And I don't think enough of the new movie was about Rey if she's supposed to be part of the main story.  TLJ had too much time invested in all of the side stories instead.  Again, this is still just my first impression, I may change my views after seeing it again.  On the bright side, we paid to see it in 3d and the movie theater screwed up and played regular so we got free passes when we left.  So I'll use that to see it again.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Accelerando on December 16, 2017, 12:29:43 PM
Anyone else sad that Chewie has been rendered down to a mere stagnant character without Han?  :-[
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: jammindude on December 16, 2017, 12:40:25 PM
In retrospect ... While I did enjoy the movie, Iím reflecting back now and Iím not sure Iím happy with how they handled Luke. I get how it fit into ďfailure being the best teacher...yada yada yadaĒ But I still canít picture him, even for a moment, contemplating the outright murder of his own nephew.

I can see why Mark had a problem with it.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Polarbear on December 16, 2017, 12:50:39 PM
Anyone else sad that Chewie has been rendered down to a mere stagnant character without Han?  :-[

Seems to me that they are building up Rey and Chewie to be the new Millenium Falcon duo! I liked their banter in this movie, i hope it is expanded in the next one!

In retrospect ... While I did enjoy the movie, Iím reflecting back now and Iím not sure Iím happy with how they handled Luke. I get how it fit into ďfailure being the best teacher...yada yada yadaĒ But I still canít picture him, even for a moment, contemplating the outright murder of his own nephew.

I can see why Mark had a problem with it.

I think he didn't want to end up like Obi Wan, being responsible for Vader. Kinda sad that, in that moment he realizes that he has gone to far, but it is already too late. Wheels are in motion, and he is responsible for creating another Vader

Rian Johnson has some serious balls, doing some of the things he does with this movie.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: gmillerdrake on December 16, 2017, 02:09:23 PM
In retrospect ... While I did enjoy the movie, Iím reflecting back now and Iím not sure Iím happy with how they handled Luke. I get how it fit into ďfailure being the best teacher...yada yada yadaĒ But I still canít picture him, even for a moment, contemplating the outright murder of his own nephew.

Well he did say when he explained that night to Rey that it was only a brief moment after he discovered just how far gone Ben was. I think it's fair to say that the fact he WAS his nephew was the only reason he hesitated and didn't kill him immediately.




I'm going to see it again tomorrow with the family, but the more I reflect on the movie the 'better' it sits with me. I still think the Leah space walk was utterly retarded and that excursion to find the code breaker wasn't needed....but other than that I'm pretty good with the rest of what went down.

I don't think the lineage theory that Ren told Rey was true....as has been mentioned it was a ploy by him to rope her in....AND I'm wondering whether or not Snoke stays dead. Meaning....his body was clearly mauled and wretched...dare I say pieced together and maybe even decaying.....who's to say he's really dead? Dude seemed to have next level powers by opening a bridge between Rey and Ren so perhaps it takes more than a slice from a light saber to beat the guy?

Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Accelerando on December 16, 2017, 02:13:11 PM
A buddy of mine brought up that in some of the EU, Luke became so powerful he was able to travel throughout the galaxy without a spaceship. I wonder if that Leia scene was a nod to that. Rian Johnson definitely followed all that EU, or Legends
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: twosuitsluke on December 16, 2017, 03:10:36 PM
So in a message to a friend this was my view on Luke's arc (And my disappointment in it):

If his death had 'saved' Kylo Ren from going completely to the dark side or had done the same for Rey then that would've been something. Nothing Luke did in the movie changed the path Kylo or Rey were on. He didn't even really give Rey any training. He sat on his island, refused to really get involved, caused a distraction. Then drifts off like he's fulfilled some higher purpose. It was a really shit end to the whole arc of his character throughout the whole saga.

It's not a justifiable end to Luke's character for me. The more I think about it the more it annoys me. I just don't feel Luke really did enough in this film. That's my feeling anyway.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: ronnibran on December 16, 2017, 04:21:02 PM
I honestly don't have a huge issue with the ending and what happened to Luke....  But when I realize that The Force Awakens, the whole plot revolved around finding Luke and the map to Luke (which I assumed he left at least partially with R2 in case of emergency?) I just think WTF? Did he leave a map to himself, or did he really want to disappear? 
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: lordxizor on December 16, 2017, 05:16:16 PM
I see Luke's "death" being similar to Obi Wan's. I can't imagine that he won't be back to help train Rey in 9 as a force ghost. I was fully expecting him to say "If you strike me down I will become more powerful than you can possibly imagine" to Kylo when they were fighting before we realized he was a projection. I'm on the fence about whether that would have been a better end.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: jammindude on December 16, 2017, 05:33:52 PM
I see Luke's "death" being similar to Obi Wan's. I can't imagine that he won't be back to help train Rey in 9 as a force ghost. I was fully expecting him to say "If you strike me down I will become more powerful than you can possibly imagine" to Kylo when they were fighting before we realized he was a projection. I'm on the fence about whether that would have been a better end.

I thought about that as it was happening....but Iím glad they didnít. With as much call back as this trilogy has had, I think that would have been over the line.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: bosk1 on December 16, 2017, 09:10:48 PM
Overall, I loved this film.  It could be my favorite of the bunch, although it still has its newness going for it and giving it a probably unfair advantage.  I stayed spoiler-free, but had just heard vague rumblings about it being very different and about the humor being maybe a bit too much for a SW film, so I did have a bit of trepidation and had lowered my expectations going in.  Maybe that helped, but this movie was a complete home run for me. 

As others have pointed out, if there are things I have to point out that bothered me a bit, they would be the Leia space scene and the casino planet diversion.  But the Leia scene was...I guess not too bad.  And the casino planet, while completely unnecessary in and of itself, had a satisfying payoff at the end of the film, so that was cool. 

One other thing that bugged me a bit, and that I have NOT seen discussed is this:  How did Benicio Del Toro's character know about the escaping ships?  He was with Fin and Rose the whole time, and neither of them were privy to that.  So how did he know?  Was that explained and I just missed it?
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: BlobVanDam on December 16, 2017, 09:29:06 PM
So in a message to a friend this was my view on Luke's arc (And my disappointment in it):

If his death had 'saved' Kylo Ren from going completely to the dark side or had done the same for Rey then that would've been something. Nothing Luke did in the movie changed the path Kylo or Rey were on. He didn't even really give Rey any training. He sat on his island, refused to really get involved, caused a distraction. Then drifts off like he's fulfilled some higher purpose. It was a really shit end to the whole arc of his character throughout the whole saga.

It's not a justifiable end to Luke's character for me. The more I think about it the more it annoys me. I just don't feel Luke really did enough in this film. That's my feeling anyway.

He sacrificed himself to save the resistance when they were about to be wiped out (never mind that the entire resistance after all this time is that small but whatever), also saving his sister. I also wish he did more in his final outing, but I don't mind how he went so much.

A lot of characters were under-used in this movie. Chewbacca did nothing much, C3PO and R2D2 were nothing but fan service (not too different to Rogue One or TFA). I think they've got too many characters.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: orcus116 on December 16, 2017, 09:39:27 PM
One other thing that bugged me a bit, and that I have NOT seen discussed is this:  How did Benicio Del Toro's character know about the escaping ships?  He was with Fin and Rose the whole time, and neither of them were privy to that.  So how did he know?  Was that explained and I just missed it?

Wasn't Poe saying something about it to Finn over the comm while his character was trying to open the door? That's where I figured it came up.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: lordxizor on December 17, 2017, 07:42:59 AM
I think they've got too many characters.
I find myself agreeing with this. I was actually hoping they would pull a Game of Thrones and kill Fin and Rose on the First Order ship.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: gmillerdrake on December 17, 2017, 08:24:37 AM
I think they've got too many characters.
I find myself agreeing with this. I was actually hoping they would pull a Game of Thrones and kill Fin and Rose on the First Order ship.

That'd have been awesome. I like the Finn character but if he's only going to be used for silly little 'side' stories like that then might as well off the dude.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Logain Ablar on December 17, 2017, 09:21:25 AM
I agree, I think having Finn killed by Snoke, Kylo or even Phasma would have been a bold move, and would have given extra motivation to Rey.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: orcus116 on December 17, 2017, 09:52:55 AM
Disney wouldn't want to have the PR outrage at a black lead dying while the white leads stayed alive despite it being a good move from a storyline standpoint.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: pogoowner on December 17, 2017, 12:14:35 PM
I enjoyed the movie, but there are also a lot of things in the plot that I think make no sense whatsoever. They also could have cut pretty much that whole Casino planet storyline and the movie would've been better for it.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: gmillerdrake on December 17, 2017, 12:23:51 PM
Disney wouldn't want to have the PR outrage at a black lead dying while the white leads stayed alive despite it being a good move from a storyline standpoint.

Yet itís fine with the over the top Ďwoman powerí theme of this movie.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: kingshmegland on December 17, 2017, 02:11:36 PM
What bosk1 said about the payoff at the end of the movie with the casino.   overall I really like the film could they tighten a few things up yep, but I still really enjoyed it.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: lordxizor on December 17, 2017, 03:41:30 PM
As I've been thinking about it that last couple of days, I'm liking it more and more. The issues are falling to the wayside of the things I liked. Honestly, the biggest reason I'm liking it a lot is that it was not what I expected. TFA was great, but it was exactly what i anticipated. TLJ was a complete break from that. It definitely had it's flaws though. I'm going to go see it again on a $5 Tuesday this week or next.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Adami on December 17, 2017, 04:38:23 PM
It was pretty good. Not great. I'd give it a good 7/10 I guess.

Had some really great stuff, some of the best in the saga, honestly, but also had some of the worst stuff in the saga, including like 30 completely pointless minutes that did nothing at all.

Could have been a lot better, but had great moments and ideas. I definitely liked their ideas of the force a lot more.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: gmillerdrake on December 17, 2017, 05:17:58 PM
Just got back from seeing this a second time and I have to be honest.....I REALLY like this movie. I think I was put off the first viewing because I had my own idea of what the movie 'should' be...especially concerning Luke and when it didn't meet that I was initially a bit disappointed.

But watching this again and taking it in I think this was a great film. Still don't like the Leah space flying scene but even the casino excursion was more tolerable the second time. One thing I paid close attention to this time was the murder of Snoke. And, if you listen to his monologue as Ren is gearing up to kill Rey Snoke is detailing bit by bit that he knows that Ren is about to kill him.

He says things like "I am in his mind" ... "I know his every thought"...."I can see him turning the saber"  as the light saber turns on his chair and then he says "and now I can see him activating the saber and killing his TRUE enemy"    I think Snoke knew and/or orchestrated that entire 'murder' for a purpose....what yet I don't know, but just as I don't think we've seen the last from Luke I think the same about Snoke. It could be the Dark Side version of Force Ghosts...who knows?

And, while I was initially disappointed with Luke's fate I think what they did in this movie was perfect. I wanted him to....like Zantera mentioned a page or two ago.....to have this Rouge One Vadar esk scene of just an ultimate battle showing off his massive Jedi skills. And, that's actually what they gave us. First, he connected to Leah I'm thinking to 'know' where to project himself....then he pulls of the greatest Jedi trick we've ever seen on film by battling someone from light years/star systems away.

Rain Johnson even gives you clues prior to that that he's not really there. Outside of the physical appearance change Johnson made a big deal in several scenes to show the red dirt below the salt in footprints...he did it several times including with Ren. But, he showed a couple close ups of Luke's feet in that battle that showed Luke not leaving any footprints...thought that was cool touch.

Anyway....I enjoyed this film greatly the second time....I'll probably go see it a couple more times in the theaters....definitely in IMAX.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: sneakyblueberry on December 17, 2017, 05:23:57 PM
He says things like "I am in his mind" ... "I know his every thought"...."I can see him turning the saber"  as the light saber turns on his chair and then he says "and now I can see him activating the saber and killing his TRUE enemy"    I think Snoke knew and/or orchestrated that entire 'murder' for a purpose....what yet I don't know, but just as I don't think we've seen the last from Luke I think the same about Snoke. It could be the Dark Side version of Force Ghosts...who knows?

Yeah definitely.  I think Snoke, like the Emperor in ROTJ, knew that Ren killing his master was exactly what he needed to kill the uncertainty in Ren ('strike me down with your hatred and your journey to the dark side will be complete').
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Adami on December 17, 2017, 07:15:35 PM
Why is Hux in charge of anything? Dude seems like an idiot. I have no idea how he is in charge of the whole first order.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: kingshmegland on December 17, 2017, 07:18:12 PM
Why is Hux in charge of anything? Dude seems like an idiot. I have no idea how he is in charge of the whole first order.

His dad is Brenden Gleeson.  He has some pull. LOL
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: gmillerdrake on December 17, 2017, 08:24:33 PM
With Rey having both pieces of Anakin/Luke/Bens old Blue Light Saber I hope that when she repairs it she constructs it in a way to give her the double sided saber ala Darth Maul. Sheís already proficient with a staff and thatíd be a perfect configuration for her. And itíd lead to some cool choreography in future fight scenes.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: lonestar on December 17, 2017, 08:45:37 PM
This is the only place I can post this without being called an asshole spoiler...

(https://scontent-sjc2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t34.0-12/25530217_1430221440409292_2055963833_n.jpg?oh=6f9db599aac8a92a2b9654aab81d29ba&oe=5A3A221B)
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Phoenix87x on December 17, 2017, 10:24:17 PM
Just got back from Empire strikes back, or was it return of the jedi? Hard to tell since it incorporated some many parts from both.

What the hell was that? seriously. Do something original. It didn't bother me all that much that TFA followed so many of ANH's story beats, but I really want nothing to do with it this time around.

Alright so here we go:

I loved snoke. Wasn't all that impressed with him in TFA, but here in person, I was captivated. He really came off a someone not to be screwed with, and I LOVED when he was on screen, which made me shocked beyond words when he died. I loved the character so I was sad to see him go, BUT I respect a bold move like that. My major complaint was that Snoke has NO development. Who the hell is he? Why is he all messed up looking.

seriously, how can someone with the power and influence of the emperor just show up. Like this guy just showed up out of nowhere? And I'm gonna tell you right now, there is NO WAY the emperor would have let someone that powerful just wander around. He would have killed him or had him under his command.

On to the next complaint. The hour long SLOW speed pursuit. This is really insane. At least in the original version of Empire strikes back, we had that kick ass pursuit of the falcon, out maneuvering the empire, weaving in and out of asteroids, then outsmarting the empire. Something like that is cool. But now in the new Return of the empire jedi film I just watched, we get that laughable slow speed pursuit. Out of range? What? So there's no tiny fighters or BOMBERS that could fly up to the capital ships and take out their engines? This whole scenario was really bad and lame writing.

Luke's "training" was super underwhelming. Those scenes could have been tightened up or at the very least, he could have actually trained her. His not training her made it all feel like a waste.

So Finn and Rose just happen to be into a prison cell with a guy that not only can break out at ANY moment, but has the EXACT skills needed that they came to the planet for. The whole casino planet sequence felt like I was watching the prequels honestly.

I thought the Luke projection thing was pretty cool, but I would have liked to see more of a fight between Kylo and luke. It didn't have to be overboard or anything, but just give me a little bit more. Luke just letting himself die at the end was a real let down to me. I waited two years to watch Luke in action, but he really did almost nothing the whole film. Honestly most of what luke did felt out of character.

So phasma shows up for a hot minute JUST to get beat again and fall away. She is basically Team Rocket at this point.

So rey comes from nothing, but yet is Super OP, is a master pilot with no training, rivals and bests an Heir of vader, with no training? I let all that go in TFA because I thought she was someone of importance.

Kylo with Knights of ren in the rain from TFA. So that no longer happened? I was under the impression that Kylo along with knights of ren destroyed the jedi temple mach 2. Now, he as a student brings the roof down on luke and then just goes and starts murdering? I just don't get it.

Ok, the stuff I like:

1. First space battle was tight and gave me goosebumps
2. Snoke was incredible
3. The snoke throne room scene, surprise death and Rey and kylo teaming up against the royal guards may have been one of the most badass moments in any star wars movie. Mother of god, it was awesome.
4. I find Hux very entertaining. Don't know why, I just really like that character.
5. Poe is cool as always

Overall, I would describe The Last Jedi as a hot steaming turd, that had some sparkling diamonds sticking out of it. I really wanted to say this is my least favorite SW film, but alas, Attack of the clones still exists, so oh well. I hated TLJ, but Loved TFA though.

Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: jammindude on December 17, 2017, 10:50:13 PM
My theory about the code breaker that should have been explained.....but I felt was implied all along. 

He WAS the guy they were looking for.   He was thrown in jail having lost an incredible amount of money, and in the taking away of all his personal possessions.....someone else ended up with his personal pin on their lapel.   So by being thrown in jail, they actually found THE guy they had been looking for the entire time.   (That was my immediate conclusion that I kept waiting for them to explain....but then they didn"t ....which I thought was weird because it seemed pretty obvious)
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Adami on December 17, 2017, 10:52:44 PM
My theory about the code breaker that should have been explained.....but I felt was implied all along. 

He WAS the guy they were looking for.   He was thrown in jail having lost an incredible amount of money, and in the taking away of all his personal possessions.....someone else ended up with his personal pin on their lapel.   So by being thrown in jail, they actually found THE guy they had been looking for the entire time.   (That was my immediate conclusion that I kept waiting for them to explain....but then they didn"t ....which I thought was weird because it seemed pretty obvious)

I doubt weird alien girl was going to give a high recommendation to the guy they ended up with. Pretty sure if he's willing to betray them THAT quickly, she would have known what kind of guy he was.

So no, I don't think it was the guy.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: soupytwist on December 18, 2017, 02:05:59 AM
I can't help but think the film ended to neatly for a second part of a trilogy, there is no real hook leading into part 3 (or IX).  How awesome would it have been if this one ended with Kylo successfully turning Rey to the Dark side.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: BlobVanDam on December 18, 2017, 02:57:18 AM
I think their main setup was for the resistance to take a battering going into the final part so they'd be the major underdogs. The Rey / Kylo storyline only really tried to make their plot more personal, without actually achieving much over the course of two and a half hours.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Logain Ablar on December 18, 2017, 05:04:27 AM
https://youtu.be/ROoWg3-F9Hc

I had a bit of a laugh at this video..  :lol
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Bolsters on December 18, 2017, 05:24:47 AM
The look at the end... :lol
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: lordxizor on December 18, 2017, 06:27:49 AM
My major complaint was that Snoke has NO development. Who the hell is he? Why is he all messed up looking.
I was originally annoyed by this as well, but the more I thought about it, the more I'm OK with it. We knew nothing about the Emperor in the original trilogy. No back story, no knowledge of how he came to power, etc, and we never questioned that. We seem to expect to know everyone's full story before we're satisfied these days, which I don't think is necessary. He's just a powerful bad dude same as the emperor was.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: TheOutlawXanadu on December 18, 2017, 06:35:19 AM
What an odd film. I really enjoyed watching it, but I also left the theater thoroughly baffled by what I saw. Need to see again. Couldnít rate right now if I tried.

This forum is the only place where I still have any kind of online presence, so apologies in advance if it feels like I'm just using this page as a place to get all of my thoughts out...

I haven't seen the film since I last checked in. I plan on seeing it Friday night. However, since I first saw it, I haven't been able to stop thinking about it. I can't put a finger on exactly why, but I feel as though the film genuinely moved me, even if I didn't totally realize it at first. What happened to Luke was both tragic and hopeful... The film was very bittersweet in a lot of ways. I'm anxious to catch it again.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: BlobVanDam on December 18, 2017, 06:36:09 AM
My major complaint was that Snoke has NO development. Who the hell is he? Why is he all messed up looking.
I was originally annoyed by this as well, but the more I thought about it, the more I'm OK with it. We knew nothing about the Emperor in the original trilogy. No back story, no knowledge of how he came to power, etc, and we never questioned that. We seem to expect to know everyone's full story before we're satisfied these days, which I don't think is necessary. He's just a powerful bad dude same as the emperor was.

The difference is that with the OT, we knew nothing of the universe before the films. In these new movies, I think there needs to be some explanation for who this big bad dude is who popped up in the time between ROTJ and TFA. What, who, why etc. Like many things in TLJ, it felt like afizzle after the setup of TFA.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Polarbear on December 18, 2017, 06:37:05 AM
My major complaint was that Snoke has NO development. Who the hell is he? Why is he all messed up looking.
I was originally annoyed by this as well, but the more I thought about it, the more I'm OK with it. We knew nothing about the Emperor in the original trilogy. No back story, no knowledge of how he came to power, etc, and we never questioned that. We seem to expect to know everyone's full story before we're satisfied these days, which I don't think is necessary. He's just a powerful bad dude same as the emperor was.

Couldn't agree more! Snoke served he's purpose in the story, as a a final push for Ben to the dark side. It would have been cool to find out more about him, but i'm fine if he doesn't return in 9.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: gmillerdrake on December 18, 2017, 06:45:04 AM
I can't help but think the film ended to neatly for a second part of a trilogy, there is no real hook leading into part 3 (or IX).  How awesome would it have been if this one ended with Kylo successfully turning Rey to the Dark side.

I think it ended perfectly. It set up a major time jump for the next movie, probably 5-10 years to where Rey is a legit...full on Powerful Jedi and with her having the ancient texts possibly be training more. With Lukeís lore increased with his actions (his story already being told by stable boys at the end) he indeed sparked the rebellion and was the hero the galaxy needed and inspiration so the resistance will be large and strong. Ren will be strong as well and by then even more bitter because i has the sense that he again was ashamed of his actions....he was kneeling with his head bowed to the ground after Rey shut the door on him.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: gmillerdrake on December 18, 2017, 06:47:44 AM
What an odd film. I really enjoyed watching it, but I also left the theater thoroughly baffled by what I saw. Need to see again. Couldnít rate right now if I tried.

This forum is the only place where I still have any kind of online presence, so apologies in advance if it feels like I'm just using this page as a place to get all of my thoughts out...

I haven't seen the film since I last checked in. I plan on seeing it Friday night. However, since I first saw it, I haven't been able to stop thinking about it. I can't put a finger on exactly why, but I feel as though the film genuinely moved me, even if I didn't totally realize it at first. What happened to Luke was both tragic and hopeful... The film was very bittersweet in a lot of ways. I'm anxious to catch it again.

My second viewing completely changed my look at the film. Thought it was OK the first time....left the second screening loving it......minus the Leiah space float scene. Thatís still dumb.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: jingle.boy on December 18, 2017, 06:50:55 AM
Oh man... that took a lot of catching up.  I think Phoenix's post is the closest to how I feel about this now that I've reflected on it over night.  It had some gem-worthy moments, but there were more wat the actual fuq moments.  The big ones listed already - Casino sequence, Leia Poppins, too much ill-placed humour (scratching BB-8 like he's a goddamned puppy!?!?), Luke's character overall, the space-chase, bad utilization of MANY characters - I think that's my biggest beef.  Not to mention a few little nits not mentioned yet:

- why the hell were four Destroyers just sitting on the sidelines watching the Rebels attack the Dreadnaught?
- Space-chase ... why not just jump to hyper space a few parsecs ahead, then jump back right in front of the fleeing rebels?
- Maz... who the hell is going to take a phone call in the middle of a shoot-out?!?!?
- Ackbar should've been the one to hyperspace the cruiser thru Snoke's ship - that would've been far more satisfying (as a great tip of the cap to an original character) than to give it to a (literally) throw away character.
- I'm a little conflicted that Ren goes from 'knowing what he has to do' and killing his father dad, to sparing Rey and killing Snoke this time around.  I get his motivation of 'letting go of the past... letting it die', but how is someone so far down the dark path with his master that he'll just turn on him so easily for Rey?  At least in ROTJ, Vader did it for his son.

The overall story definitely felt like a stitching together of some of best elements of ESB and ROTJ, it doesn't take much to see that.  I hope that means they will finally do something ORIGINAL with ep9 - they've run out of ideas to repurpose.

I'm really struggling to give this a 6/10.  The great parts were great; the bad parts were prequel bad.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Nekov on December 18, 2017, 09:04:17 AM
I'm still not sure where I stand on this one. I think I had high expectations and that's one of the things that's bumming me a little. As Blob said, the story could have been told in a better way and the humour is just misplaced most of the time. I need to give it some time to sink in and re-watch it before I pass more judgement on it.


Rose also comes from nothing, yet she also becomes a hero in the end after saving Finn! That slave boy on the casino planet also can

What I didn't like
  • The burning of the Jedi temple tree, and the ancient Jedi texts didn't work for me. This doesn't strike me as something Yoda would do

Well, at the end there is a cameo of Finn opening a drawer in the millenium falcon where you can see the Jedi text books. So Yoda knew pretty well that the Jedi Order would go on even if the tree wasn't there. He was just pushing Luke to do the right thing.

It's not even Leia force pulling herself back to the ship. It's the fact that the Force somehow allowed her to survive in space in unimagineably cold temperatures and, you know, being in a vacuum!

Well, according to real science and not movie science, you don't immediately die in a vacum, you can actually survive for a couple of minutes without freezing or exploding because of pressure diffrence. Even if that was the case, SW space works differently than normal space so that may also be a reason why she doesn't die immediately.

It's not even Leia force pulling herself back to the ship. It's the fact that the Force somehow allowed her to survive in space in unimagineably cold temperatures and, you know, being in a vacuum! I don't mind (too much) some of the other force stuff that we saw in this movie, that had never been part of Star Wars lore. But the Leia thing infuriates me. She's not even a strong force user (not that I think anyone should be able to do what she did). She was sucked out into space and then unconscious! Even if you could do something to survive in space using the force (which I call bullshit on) she was unconscious! It make it look more like there was divine intervention or some bullshit. The more I think about it the more it annoys me. Luke, Vader, the emperor, they were all mortal men who could be killed like any other. If you are going to make force users more like gods then I'll be pissed off with where they take the films next!

Rant over.......for now

Basically that was my issue. The move itself wasn't a problem, it was the circumstances of being pulled out into space and unconscious/dead, and Leia not being a force user as far as we've been shown, just force sensitive.

Good point. I'm pretty sure in the EU she trained and was able to use the force but in the films she's only ever been shown to be force sensitive. That was partly why I didn't like the bit with the kids force grabbing the broom at the end. In Star Wars lore (up until this point) you have to be trained to be able to do shit like that. No one just DOES it. Actually Rey was the first to just DO stuff in TFA, with no training. But I didn't mind that as much as she was shown to be way stronger than any other untrained force user. Plus the force had awoken in her, she was special (potentially the real chosen one to bring balance to the force). Unless this kid is in the next film (and a total badass) this doesn't sit well with me.

Well, I think Disney said that anything outside the movies was not part of the cannon anymore so whatever happened in the EU is inconsecuential. We can just assume that Luke gave her some training on the basinc use of the force just in case.
And regarding people not using the force without training, I think we can safely say Anakin did in episode I because there is no way a kid could succeeed in those races without some help of the force in order to react at that speed or some can of ability to forsee what was coming.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: lordxizor on December 18, 2017, 10:46:15 AM
As I've read comments from the director of TLJ and other things, I find it a little disturbing that it seems like they didn't have the whole storyline plotted out for these three movies. The director made some comment that he decided Rey would have parents that were nobody important. How was that not something that was already determined before TFA was even filmed? It also seemed like he just decided that he didn't want to bother with some of the set-ups from TFA (Snoke's backstory, where Maz got Luke's lightsaber, etc). Again, how were these things not already established up front? Maybe Ep 9 will reveal answers to some of these questions, but it seems to me that the basic plot on things that were meant to be carried over between movies should have been defined up front.

I don't necessarily think these things detract from TLJ, though it will detract from the whole trilogy if they go unanswered. Mostly it will make TFA worse in retrospect if it's just decided that these things don't matter after all. With JJ Abrams back at the helm for Ep. 9 maybe he'll make a point to close the loop on some of these things.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Implode on December 18, 2017, 10:48:56 AM
I think the TLJ made it really obvious that they didn't have a concrete plan across all three movies.  :-\
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: lordxizor on December 18, 2017, 11:40:14 AM
I guess it became pretty clear over time that George Lucas was just making things up as he went along, so it's probably not that big of a deal, but I still find it bizarre they wouldn't have had it all mapped out from the start.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: gmillerdrake on December 18, 2017, 12:41:15 PM
I still find it bizarre they wouldn't have had it all mapped out from the start.

But we don't really know if they haven't mapped it out over three movies because there is still one to go. How do we know Ren wasn't lying to Rey about her lineage or that Snoke is really even dead? Dude's body before he died looked like he'd been put back together a few dozen times anyway. Even if he is dead and that is that......so what? Who made the big deal about Snoke's backstory? It wasn't anyone in TFA it was the fans wanting to know. It'd be cool to know but is it really all that important?

And if Rey is just the daughter of some bums it fits in just fine with the them of TLJ.......if she happens to be the kid of Palpatine's third cousin or A love child of Vadar then cool. Luke will most likely still make an appearance or two as a Force Ghost like Yoda so he's not really gone either.....But until the final scene of the last film we can't say for certain they haven't mapped it out.



Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: lordxizor on December 18, 2017, 12:47:21 PM
They definitely could have had it figured out from the beginning. My suspicion is based more on TLJ's director's comments and some other things I've read than the events of the movies themselves that make me think it wasn't planned out.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: twosuitsluke on December 18, 2017, 05:20:32 PM
Oh man... that took a lot of catching up.  I think Phoenix's post is the closest to how I feel about this now that I've reflected on it over night.  It had some gem-worthy moments, but there were more wat the actual fuq moments.  The big ones listed already - Casino sequence, Leia Poppins, too much ill-placed humour (scratching BB-8 like he's a goddamned puppy!?!?), Luke's character overall, the space-chase, bad utilization of MANY characters - I think that's my biggest beef.  Not to mention a few little nits not mentioned yet:

- why the hell were four Destroyers just sitting on the sidelines watching the Rebels attack the Dreadnaught?
- Space-chase ... why not just jump to hyper space a few parsecs ahead, then jump back right in front of the fleeing rebels?
- Maz... who the hell is going to take a phone call in the middle of a shoot-out?!?!?
- Ackbar should've been the one to hyperspace the cruiser thru Snoke's ship - that would've been far more satisfying (as a great tip of the cap to an original character) than to give it to a (literally) throw away character.
- I'm a little conflicted that Ren goes from 'knowing what he has to do' and killing his father dad, to sparing Rey and killing Snoke this time around.  I get his motivation of 'letting go of the past... letting it die', but how is someone so far down the dark path with his master that he'll just turn on him so easily for Rey?  At least in ROTJ, Vader did it for his son.

The overall story definitely felt like a stitching together of some of best elements of ESB and ROTJ, it doesn't take much to see that.  I hope that means they will finally do something ORIGINAL with ep9 - they've run out of ideas to repurpose.

I'm really struggling to give this a 6/10.  The great parts were great; the bad parts were prequel bad.

Yep, I can agree with pretty much all of this. I also agree that Phoenix's post is closest to how I feel about this film.

It's not even Leia force pulling herself back to the ship. It's the fact that the Force somehow allowed her to survive in space in unimagineably cold temperatures and, you know, being in a vacuum! I don't mind (too much) some of the other force stuff that we saw in this movie, that had never been part of Star Wars lore. But the Leia thing infuriates me. She's not even a strong force user (not that I think anyone should be able to do what she did). She was sucked out into space and then unconscious! Even if you could do something to survive in space using the force (which I call bullshit on) she was unconscious! It make it look more like there was divine intervention or some bullshit. The more I think about it the more it annoys me. Luke, Vader, the emperor, they were all mortal men who could be killed like any other. If you are going to make force users more like gods then I'll be pissed off with where they take the films next!

Rant over.......for now

Basically that was my issue. The move itself wasn't a problem, it was the circumstances of being pulled out into space and unconscious/dead, and Leia not being a force user as far as we've been shown, just force sensitive.

Good point. I'm pretty sure in the EU she trained and was able to use the force but in the films she's only ever been shown to be force sensitive. That was partly why I didn't like the bit with the kids force grabbing the broom at the end. In Star Wars lore (up until this point) you have to be trained to be able to do shit like that. No one just DOES it. Actually Rey was the first to just DO stuff in TFA, with no training. But I didn't mind that as much as she was shown to be way stronger than any other untrained force user. Plus the force had awoken in her, she was special (potentially the real chosen one to bring balance to the force). Unless this kid is in the next film (and a total badass) this doesn't sit well with me.

Well, I think Disney said that anything outside the movies was not part of the cannon anymore so whatever happened in the EU is inconsecuential. We can just assume that Luke gave her some training on the basinc use of the force just in case.
And regarding people not using the force without training, I think we can safely say Anakin did in episode I because there is no way a kid could succeeed in those races without some help of the force in order to react at that speed or some can of ability to forsee what was coming.

I know that the EU is no longer canon but even within the original trilogy (and prequel trilogy) no untrained force user can force grab/throw etc. In the original trilogy Luke is not able to do anything like that until he has had training (and the force is strong with him). The same with Anakin, he only learns to do this once he starts training. In regards to Podracing, it is explained that Anakin has lightening quick reflexes. This is a by-product of being a force user, regardless of training. It was the same with Luke in the OT, he was said to be the best pilot on Tatooine and could "shoot the tail of a Wamp Rat". This is not the same as being trained to lift rocks using the force. Luke wasn't shown to be using the force, like a Jedi would, until he started training. That was the same for Anakin.

I know that Disney can now take Star Wars in any direction they want but I feel they need to respect the source material. Some people like fresh things being added in but I feel they have to respect the world this story is told in and what has previously been shown to be possible/impossible. If they suddenly decided to allow force users to fly and shoot lasers from their eyes, would we be cool with that? That's why I don't like the Leia in space scene. If you are going to do that then why not just have her flying around in space and never travelling in a ship at all??

Star Wars is just something that has been a big part of my life for the entirety of it. I have watched all the films, read countless books, played the computer games, learnt all the character names/planets/races/vehicles etc. I feel like I have a good grasp on what Star Wars is, better than most. I know there will people who know even more than me though, I'm not saying I know it all. The EU (at least the books I read) all kept within the universe that George Lucas built and never felt out of place. I know there are plenty of casual fans out there and that's fine. But when a film feels like it has been directed by a casual fan, that's when it angers me. I feel like that anyone who directs a SW film should know the series inside and out. Unfortunately TLJ doesn't feel like this to me.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: bosk1 on December 18, 2017, 05:26:49 PM
Well, at the end there is a cameo of Finn opening a drawer in the millenium falcon where you can see the Jedi text books. So Yoda knew pretty well that the Jedi Order would go on even if the tree wasn't there. He was just pushing Luke to do the right thing.

???  How was that a cameo?  Finn is a major character in the trilogy.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Adami on December 18, 2017, 05:30:48 PM
Well, at the end there is a cameo of Finn opening a drawer in the millenium falcon where you can see the Jedi text books. So Yoda knew pretty well that the Jedi Order would go on even if the tree wasn't there. He was just pushing Luke to do the right thing.

???  How was that a cameo?  Finn is a major character in the trilogy.

I think he just meant a shot of finn. In Nekov's country, the wort for shot, and the word for cameo are very closely related.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: lonestar on December 18, 2017, 09:18:48 PM
They definitely could have had it figured out from the beginning. My suspicion is based more on TLJ's director's comments and some other things I've read than the events of the movies themselves that make me think it wasn't planned out.

Which to me is inexcusable and a discredit to the Star Wars universe. If the MCU can at least kind of map out and keep faith to the general overall universe they've created, you'd think they'd attempt to do the same for the massive guaranteed fanbase that comes with SW. We're really not that hard of a fanbase to please, they just seem to be trying to please everyone instead of just committing to a complete and intriguing story.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: gmillerdrake on December 18, 2017, 10:05:13 PM
I guess I just don't subscribe to the thought that since they've either punted Reys true lineage reveal OR the fact she really is a nobody chosen by the force as an indication they haven't planned it out. And, if they left Snokes story as is or chose to elaborate.....agsin, doesn't mean there isn't a plan in place.

They've used Luke,his lore and his incredible Jedi feat of projecting himself across light years and galaxies to spark the rebellion...a rebellion that was all but dead but in the next film will be rebuilt and strong again thanks to him. That appears to have been planned out.

They've connected Rey and Ren in a way that surely is going to play out over the next film......Benicio del Torrid character will most likely play a role in the next film.....I mean, there is an underlying story going on.

If they had made Reys parental reveal a more appealing and fan approved reveal people would be bitching that it was an Empire rehash..... "So lame they used the second film to reveal just like Empire" and so on. The "reveal" works for the narrative of that movie of the nobody's becoming someone  AND the fact Ren can't be trusted to have told her the truth 

I was a bit turned off after the first viewing but something happened the second time around d where it really clicked for me. I like it a lot.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Adami on December 18, 2017, 10:08:25 PM
I think Rey's parents being nobodies is actually an important plot point that plays right into the entire theme of the force that Luke said.

It's not just for special people, it's for anybody. That's why that random kid was able to use it at the end. They emphasize that by saying Rey isn't special. She has no crazy lineage. She's just a person. If she can master the force, so can other people. You don't have to be a Skywalker or anything.

So I, personally, hope they maintain that her parents are just random nobodies. I like that message way more than needing to be from some elite group to be special.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: gmillerdrake on December 18, 2017, 10:49:25 PM
I think Rey's parents being nobodies is actually an important plot point that plays right into the entire theme of the force that Luke said.

It's not just for special people, it's for anybody. That's why that random kid was able to use it at the end. They emphasize that by saying Rey isn't special. She has no crazy lineage. She's just a person. If she can master the force, so can other people. You don't have to be a Skywalker or anything.

So I, personally, hope they maintain that her parents are just random nobodies. I like that message way more than needing to be from some elite group to be special.

I agree 100%, it was the theme of the movie. Curious as to why thatís not good enough for some people? (Not specifically here)
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Adami on December 18, 2017, 10:51:42 PM
I think Rey's parents being nobodies is actually an important plot point that plays right into the entire theme of the force that Luke said.

It's not just for special people, it's for anybody. That's why that random kid was able to use it at the end. They emphasize that by saying Rey isn't special. She has no crazy lineage. She's just a person. If she can master the force, so can other people. You don't have to be a Skywalker or anything.

So I, personally, hope they maintain that her parents are just random nobodies. I like that message way more than needing to be from some elite group to be special.

I agree 100%, it was the theme of the movie. Curious as to why thatís not good enough for some people? (Not specifically here)

I had a considerable amount of problems with this movie. Rey's parents being nobodies wasn't one of them. In fact, the big mystery around it from Force Awakens onward was incredibly annoying and dumb, so I really hope JJ doesn't undo it and just leaves it be.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Polarbear on December 18, 2017, 11:51:01 PM
Saw it with a couple of my friends yesterday, i really like this movie now! Two friends i was with, loved it.

I agree with gmillerdrake's previous posts. What he said feels closest to how i feel right now!

Everything just seemed to fall into place on the second viewing. Canto Bight excursion felt shorter, and was a nice change of scenery from the rest of the movie. Luke being a "failed legend" was really compelling. Leia's space walk didn't bother me as much. The themes of "Heroes can come from anywhere", and "Failure being the best teacher" hit home strongly on the second viewing.

This movie is easily better than Rogue One, and might even be better than TFA. Don't know if i prefer it over any of the originals right now..

Also about the trilogy being mapped out. I disagree! That would have seriously tied Johnson's hands when making this movie. From what i've read, there is an end game planned. But how the trilogy gets there, is yet to be decided.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: BlackInk on December 19, 2017, 12:26:20 AM
I will post my thoughts on the movie at some point, but I have so many opinions that I need to gather my thoughts some more. Iíve even considered making a video because thereís so much to say.

For now though, I would just like to let you all know that just because youíre out of a planetís atmosphere doesnít mean that youíre also out of its gravitational pull. It would never have occured to me to be a viable criticism for a Star Wars movie, but if it makes anyone feel any better, the bombs dropping in that moment was completely scientificly correct.

EDIT: Also, thatís assuming that the bombs werenít machanically propelled downwards by the massive contraption they were placed in.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Polarbear on December 19, 2017, 01:25:32 AM
I hate to overanalyze, but it seemed pretty clear to me that those launching devices on the bomber propelled the bombs downwards..
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Logain Ablar on December 19, 2017, 01:57:52 AM
I'm ok with Rey's parents not being anyone of significance. I went into this movie with almost a blank slate of expectations, but that was one thing I was hoping they wouldn't do. To make her the daughter of a Skywalker or Kenobi would have seemed a bit too contrived for me.

The other thing I was hoping was that Snoke didn't turn out to be this Darth Plagueis character, somebody who's only mentioned briefly in ROTS. I'm ok with his background not being explained, just like the Emperor's wasn't, but I still feel he was dispatched far too easily.

I'll be going to see it again this Saturday, so we'll see if my opinions change any.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: bl5150 on December 19, 2017, 03:48:43 AM
Well I have seen the first hour or so....... >:(

Took my son along tonight and the movie stopped at the first appearance of Snoke.  They then fluffed around for 10 mins and we got a restart that then stopped at the first appearance of Luke - same thing.  Then at the one hour mark water started flooding in through the roof (massive storms outside) and we were evacuated.  The freaking force ain't with me I can tell ya  ::)

What I saw I thought was okay - visually spectacular but I just don't have the connection with characters like Finn and Po  vs the movies I grew up with. They don't drive me nuts like Hayden C did in the prequels but I just don't find them particularly convincing or likeable. 

Not sure if I can be bothered making the trip again based on what I saw.......  Ben (son) and I were pumped to see it but really flat after the initial viewing being stuffed.  We might just wait for the stream on cable.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Nekov on December 19, 2017, 06:03:45 AM
Well, at the end there is a cameo of Finn opening a drawer in the millenium falcon where you can see the Jedi text books. So Yoda knew pretty well that the Jedi Order would go on even if the tree wasn't there. He was just pushing Luke to do the right thing.

???  How was that a cameo?  Finn is a major character in the trilogy.

I think he just meant a shot of finn. In Nekov's country, the wort for shot, and the word for cameo are very closely related.

Sorry if cameo is not the correct word, as Adami says it was a shot of Finn opening a drawer, I just used that word becuase it was short and if people weren't paying attention they might have missed it.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: lordxizor on December 19, 2017, 08:42:02 AM
I think Rey's parents being nobodies is actually an important plot point that plays right into the entire theme of the force that Luke said.

It's not just for special people, it's for anybody. That's why that random kid was able to use it at the end. They emphasize that by saying Rey isn't special. She has no crazy lineage. She's just a person. If she can master the force, so can other people. You don't have to be a Skywalker or anything.

So I, personally, hope they maintain that her parents are just random nobodies. I like that message way more than needing to be from some elite group to be special.

I agree 100%, it was the theme of the movie. Curious as to why thatís not good enough for some people? (Not specifically here)
I don't inherently have issues with it. It depends in large part how Episode 9 turns out and what happens after that. I think that the main saga should end after 9 if there are no Skywalkers standing at the end. I suspect that it was supposed to be Leia atoning for her family's failure to close out the Skywalker story in Ep. 9, but now that Carrie Fisher is gone I'm not sure how that works. Luke didn't do enough for Rey in TLJ to make it seem like he's atoning for his or his family's failure through her. I guess that's the only reason I have a potential issue with Rey being unrelated to the Skywalkers, but it all depends on how Ep. 9 plays out.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Implode on December 19, 2017, 08:54:18 AM
While I didn't think the movie was that great, I thought Rey's parents being no one special was actually a good thing. If the Star Wars franchise is going to remain interesting after these movies, we need to move away from the Skywalker extended family and friends.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: kaos2900 on December 19, 2017, 09:51:44 AM
As this is the final trilogy of the Skywalker saga a lot of people are assuming that Rey has to be connected to the Skywalker clan. I'm not buying it. I think Kylo was telling the truth and based on the directors explanation as to why he went that direction I have no issues with it. I remember reading that George Lucas considered Anakin/ Vador to be the primary character of the original 6 films. The more I think about it I think that Kylo/Ben is the primary lead of the story. For one he is directly related to Anakin. Two, he's gone full on dark side so I think Luke/Rey will have some influence on his fate in the final film. I'm guessing Rey kills him and the skywalker line goes extinct with the deaths of Luke, Leah, and now Ben. The end of the Skywalker Saga should mean the end of the bloodline.

Read an interesting theory about Rey being a clone made from Luke Hand. Cool idea, but doubt it will happen in the film.

I really hope the story of Snoke is told in some capacity. That's really the only thing I don't like about the film. Don't mind that he was killed, but wish they fleshed him out a bit more. Maybe he was a clone of the emperor?

Also, I hope John Williams lives long enough to finish Episode 9. The score was amazing as always.

I'm guessing Leia's death will be handled in the opening scroll. Maybe she gets assassinated? I do think there will be a time jump of at least a year. 5-10 seems a bit much.

I didn't mind the Maz Kanata scene. She needs to stay relevent since the story of how she got Luke's sabre needs to be told.

I also expect the Knights of Ren to show up and go against Rey's new troop of jedi.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: jingle.boy on December 19, 2017, 09:58:13 AM
My beef with Snoke isn't that they didn't give us a back-story (hell, we don't know Yoda's back story - at least in the movie universe).  My beef is they introduce him as a mysterious character in TFA, he's the "supreme leader" and clearly super-powerful with the force, but they kill him off after just a few scenes.  No development in the character at all.  Even Rose is getting better treatment than that.

Ditto with Phasma.  One minor hand-to-hand fight, and the floor collapses ... which begs the question, why didn't Finn's platform collapse along with it?

Lunch bag letdown on those two (supposedly) powerful and menacing characters.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Implode on December 19, 2017, 10:05:30 AM
since the story of how she got Luke's sabre needs to be told.

Does it really need to be told though? I feel like that's the line of thinking that lead to R1, Han Solo stand alone film, Yoda film, and even the prequels. I mean sure. We can take any of these ideas and turn them into great movies, but a lot of times it seems exhausting where people try to find meaning and significance in every little detail, like the people coming up with theories as to who the kid at the end is and how he will be significant. It seems like things can't just happen anymore. We need movies explaining everything.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: bosk1 on December 19, 2017, 10:13:49 AM
I didn't mind the Maz Kanata scene. She needs to stay relevent since the story of how she got Luke's sabre needs to be told.

Agreed on both points.  Yeah, having her expound on where to find the master codebreaker when she is in the middle of a gunfight is ridiculous and silly.  But in a fun, "I can suspend belief for this in this type of movie" kind of way. 

And, yeah, I really hope the lightsaber issue is explained at some point.

I also expect the Knights of Ren to show up and go against Rey's new troop of jedi.

I could be wrong, but I seem to remember reading somewhere awhile back that Snoke's elite guard were the Knights of Ren.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: kaos2900 on December 19, 2017, 10:18:54 AM
I didn't mind the Maz Kanata scene. She needs to stay relevent since the story of how she got Luke's sabre needs to be told.

Agreed on both points.  Yeah, having her expound on where to find the master codebreaker when she is in the middle of a gunfight is ridiculous and silly.  But in a fun, "I can suspend belief for this in this type of movie" kind of way. 

And, yeah, I really hope the lightsaber issue is explained at some point.

I also expect the Knights of Ren to show up and go against Rey's new troop of jedi.

I could be wrong, but I seem to remember reading somewhere awhile back that Snoke's elite guard were the Knights of Ren.

I think they are officially called the Praetorean (Spelling) Guard. Everything I've read is they are not the Knights. Could be wrong.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: bosk1 on December 19, 2017, 10:24:05 AM
since the story of how she got Luke's sabre needs to be told.

Does it really need to be told though? I feel like that's the line of thinking that lead to R1, Han Solo stand alone film, Yoda film, and even the prequels. I mean sure. We can take any of these ideas and turn them into great movies, but a lot of times it seems exhausting where people try to find meaning and significance in every little detail, like the people coming up with theories as to who the kid at the end is and how he will be significant. It seems like things can't just happen anymore. We need movies explaining everything.

I don't know that it needs to be "told" in terms of getting the whole story.  But a couple lines of exposition could take it from "oh, what a marvelously serendipitous piece of serendipity there" to, "Oh, that makes sense and serves some purpose in the grand scheme of things."  Lucas definitely had his issues, both as a writer, but moreso as a director.  But one thing he did right in the OT was that he could have a few lines of dialog in a conversation give a LOT of exposition without hitting you over the head with "hey, I'm giving you necessary backstory exposition here!"  There isn't screen time given to tell the backstory of Alderaan.  But we have enough in a few lines of dialog to get the impact of its destruction.  We don't get a ton of backstory on the state of the government in ep. IV, but a few lines of dialog aboard the death star tell us enough that we see the empire as a force that is in the process of establishing an authoritarian stranglehold by snuffing out a senate.  We get zero exposition about the conflicts of the past, other than the fact that something called the "clone wars" was somehow a major series of conflicts that happened, and there were a lot of jedi back then, and Anakin was a jedi and ace pilot and jedi himself that had something bad happen to him.  We get that the emperor is VERY strong in the force and not to be trifled with because Vader, who is imposing as it gets from his very first appearance, kneels to this dude and calls him "master."  There was a lot done with few words that kept the mystery, but gave you enough to feel like things had a context.  Personally, I think VII and VIII are better movies overall.  But they lack that simple gift of providing that rich context through only a few lines of dialog or short scenes that gave you enough to make you feel like things had a context and purpose instead of just being random.  To me, the lightsaber thing is one of those areas that needs a bit of filling in to not feel so random and serendipitous. 
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: BlobVanDam on December 19, 2017, 10:24:53 AM
I think they are officially called the Praetorean (Spelling) Guard. Everything I've read is they are not the Knights. Could be wrong.

I think you're right.
That reminds me, when I saw the movie, when one of them got the lightsabre to the face, the entire theater went OOOOHHHHHHHHH :lol Pretty cool fight scene.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: lordxizor on December 19, 2017, 10:25:29 AM
since the story of how she got Luke's sabre needs to be told.

Does it really need to be told though?
It only needs to be told because Maz told us it was a story for another day. Take away that line from TFA and no, it doesn't need to be told. If they choose not to discuss it further it just makes for an annoying inconsistency, but I doubt the story is anything we really need to know.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Implode on December 19, 2017, 10:37:45 AM
big paragraph

Good point. I fully agree with you here. For example, the relationship between the First Order and Republic and exactly what was at stake were things that should've been explained far better, even with a few throwaway lines of dialogue, much like what was done in the OT with things like the origin of Darth Vader.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Podaar on December 19, 2017, 10:49:35 AM
My beef with Snoke isn't that they didn't give us a back-story (hell, we don't know Yoda's back story - at least in the movie universe).  My beef is they introduce him as a mysterious character in TFA, he's the "supreme leader" and clearly super-powerful with the force, but they kill him off after just a few scenes. No development in the character at all.  Even Rose is getting better treatment than that.

I thought that was brilliant. Granted, I don't have an emotional investment in the SW franchise so my views are probably not very relevant to the discussion. But, here is Snoke going into cliche super-bad-guy monologue vulgar-display-of-power mode and Kylo takes him down with low cunning and by playing on Snokes hubris. The unexpectedness of it was excellent.

I for one welcome the changes in the franchise. To me, these current movies aren't about what worked in the past for the partisan factions of The Force but is about its evolving influence in the galaxy as a whole. I'm happy to see characters like Snoke, Luke, Yoda, Vader, etc. be consigned to the past. A powerful force user like Rey who balances her compassion and anger is a much more compelling character. I'm actually hoping she ends up convincing Kylo (Ben) to follow her (although, I doubt that's where Disney is going with this.)
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: bosk1 on December 19, 2017, 10:58:32 AM
@Implode:  Yeah, I think you get me.  I mean, I'm not in favor of giving an origin story to everything.  I had a lot of trepidation about Rogue One being a story that didn't need to be told.  But I think they nailed it, so it's all good.  I think that, while the prequels do some cool things and do some things right, they also highlight how doing too much origin story (especially when not done well) actually takes away from the whole instead of enhancing it.  Unfortunately, I feel like both Vader and Boba Fett and less cool because of the backstories given them in the PT.  That's why I think Solo is a bad idea (I would love to be proven wrong).  But giving a bit of backstory to help things feel real and feel like they have a context is good.  To take another example, killing off Snoke so unceremoniously and not giving him any backstory could very well serve the theme of TLJ that it doesn't matter nearly so much where you've been and how your family is, as much as who YOU are and what YOU do.  It could also be that they were sloppy and didn't have any good ideas.  A bit of expository backstory on things that are important to the fans would, IMO, make us trust those in charge of the film and feel like the Snoke thing was the former and not the latter.  With them not nailing that in a lot of obvious areas leaves doubt.  Does that make sense?

@Podaar:  Agreed.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: bosk1 on December 19, 2017, 01:59:28 PM
Interesting.  Hadn't picked up on this from Rogue One:

Quote
In Rogue One, when Jyn Erso is looking for plans to the Death Star on the Empireís massive database on Scarif, she mentions a few other top-secret developments the Empireís scientists and engineers are working on. Among them? Hyperspace tracking.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Logain Ablar on December 19, 2017, 02:43:07 PM
Interesting.  Hadn't picked up on this from Rogue One:

Quote
In Rogue One, when Jyn Erso is looking for plans to the Death Star on the Empireís massive database on Scarif, she mentions a few other top-secret developments the Empireís scientists and engineers are working on. Among them? Hyperspace tracking.

That is interesting. Youíd think that if they went to the trouble of planning details like this, and having them follow through to subsequent movies, then there must have been at least a high level plan for the story arc for the whole sequel trilogy.

I found this review. I think itís pretty balanced and I can agree with a lot of it:

https://www.starwarsnewsnet.com/2017/12/spoiler-review-star-wars-the-last-jedi-this-didnt-go-the-way-we-thought.html
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Big Hath on December 19, 2017, 10:08:21 PM
regarding if Kylo Ren was telling the truth about Rey's parents:  If they were truly nobodies, how would he even know that/who they were?
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Adami on December 19, 2017, 10:11:29 PM
regarding if Kylo Ren was telling the truth about Rey's parents:  If they were truly nobodies, how would he even know that/who they were?

I dunno. The force? Maybe he saw the memories that she can't recall. Who knows.

So I was watching the Red Letter Media review and they asked a good question. Where is there left to go next?

Other than good guy fight bad guy, what are they going to do that this movie dealt with? I mean, I guess they can keep up the whole "everybody can use the force" thing, but I don't see where any of the characters are actually going besides Rey fights Kylo.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Big Hath on December 19, 2017, 10:18:14 PM
just thought of something.  We've already seen the first Order/Resistance chase before:



(https://thumbs.gfycat.com/EquatorialEvenAngelfish-small.gif)
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: lonestar on December 19, 2017, 10:36:04 PM
Just saw it again, this time in the bright shiny new IMAX theater that just opened last Thursday. For sure a better experience and the way to see it in my opinion (I loathe 3D). My feelings on the movie remain the same, there are still the same wtf moments, and the whole casino planet arc is still stupid, but man, the three main sequences (opening battle, the sequence surrounding Snoke's death, and the salt planet sequence) were even better this time around. In that they nailed, for me at least, the spirit of Star Wars.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Phoenix87x on December 20, 2017, 04:55:34 AM
Interesting.  Hadn't picked up on this from Rogue One:

Quote
In Rogue One, when Jyn Erso is looking for plans to the Death Star on the Empireís massive database on Scarif, she mentions a few other top-secret developments the Empireís scientists and engineers are working on. Among them? Hyperspace tracking.

Its a shame they didn't research ludicrous speed as well.


(http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/steven-universe/images/1/1d/Spaceballs-ludicrous-speed-o.gif/revision/latest?cb=20150812152815)

(https://i.imgur.com/q9nz8cJ.gif)
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: gmillerdrake on December 20, 2017, 01:59:08 PM
Two continuity errors I was thinking about:

1.) In the moment that Rey sees Kylo Ren shirtless......he has no visible laser wound on his side where Chewbacca shot him? I'm guessing it's been what, a matter of three or four days....a week? Maybe he's been healed like his face was but it's never specifically addressed. In TFA they made a point to show how powerful Chewie's crossbow laser gun was...then him get shot and blood was oozing out onto the snow. Not a mention of that wound in TLJ

2.) Luke walks out to the line of Imperial Walkers.....takes an onslaught of blasts then it's over....he's fine....shakes it off but that was a ton of shots that tore up the area. The next scene Finn is dragging Rose through the opening of the blast door. Wouldn't Finn have been in the line of fire or at least near the debris field of all those shots?
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: bosk1 on December 20, 2017, 02:35:49 PM
Oh, wow.  Hadn't thought about the first one, but that's actually a pretty major oversight.  On the second one, not sure if that is an error or not.  I'll have to see that sequence again.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: lonestar on December 20, 2017, 03:31:50 PM
I did notice Ren had the one round scar on his left shoulder...or maybe the scar from Chewie's shot was below his waistline, his pants were riding hella high in that scene.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: lordxizor on December 20, 2017, 04:21:04 PM
I did notice Ren had the one round scar on his left shoulder...or maybe the scar from Chewie's shot was below his waistline, his pants were riding hella high in that scene.

he pants were very high, so that's an easy explanation of that. I assume it's been weeks since that incident, not just days but there's no way to know for sure.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: BlobVanDam on December 20, 2017, 09:58:33 PM
Two continuity errors I was thinking about:

1.) In the moment that Rey sees Kylo Ren shirtless......he has no visible laser wound on his side where Chewbacca shot him? I'm guessing it's been what, a matter of three or four days....a week? Maybe he's been healed like his face was but it's never specifically addressed. In TFA they made a point to show how powerful Chewie's crossbow laser gun was...then him get shot and blood was oozing out onto the snow. Not a mention of that wound in TLJ

2.) Luke walks out to the line of Imperial Walkers.....takes an onslaught of blasts then it's over....he's fine....shakes it off but that was a ton of shots that tore up the area. The next scene Finn is dragging Rose through the opening of the blast door. Wouldn't Finn have been in the line of fire or at least near the debris field of all those shots?

I would definitely assume he healed the shot wound first since it was kinda life threatening, then we saw he got interrupted while healing the less crucial face one. It would have been nice to see some of that on screen though, just to strengthen that connection with Rey from the last movie and justify Kylo's state of mind a bit more.
The second point annoyed me a little bit while watching it. Finn would have been dragging Rose towards the entrance the whole time, and the close timing seemed like he'd have been in some danger. I think they just wanted us to overlook that one.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: soupytwist on December 21, 2017, 01:38:06 AM
Calling all rankers...

Great.
1. A New Hope.
2. The Force Awakens.
3. Empire Strikes Back.
---
Good.
4. Return of the Jedi.
---
Decent.
5. The Last Jedi
6. Rogue One.
---
Watchable.
7. Revenge of the Sith.
---
Trash.
8/9 The Phantom Binks/Attack of the Sand.   (Only watched these movies once each).


Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Adami on December 21, 2017, 01:48:54 AM
Great.
1. Empire
2. New Hope
3. Rogue One

Good
1. Return of the Jedi
2. The Force Awakens
3. The Last Jedi

Prequels
1. Phantom Menace
2. Revenge of the Sith
3. Attack of the Clones
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Polarbear on December 21, 2017, 02:20:57 AM
Classic.
1. Empire
2. New Hope

Good.
1. Return of the Jedi
2. The Last Jedi
3. Force Awakens

Decent.
1. Rogue One

Passable.
1. Revenge of the Sith

Dumpster Fire.
1. Phantom Menace
2. Attack of the Clones

Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Implode on December 21, 2017, 06:41:46 AM
Excellent
1. Empire
2. New Hope
3. Force Awakens

Good
4. Return of the Jedi

Meh
5. The Last Jedi

Not good
6. Rogue One
7. Revenge of the Sith

Die
8. Phantom Menace
9. Attack of the Clones
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: cramx3 on December 21, 2017, 08:36:43 AM
Saw it last night and while I definitely enjoyed it, there were some issues that I had with it that really make it hard for me to really enjoy the movie as much as I think I could have.  Specifically the actors and acting.  I don't think any of the new characters were interesting and fun to watch.  At all.  I still think Kylo Ren looks ridiculous (especially the scene with his shirt off which felt really out of place) and his acting is cringe worthy, but it was really the newer characters that I had to just sigh throughout the movie watching.  This episode felt just as cheesy as the prequal trilogy with some really dumb humor and poor acting.  Also this excessive use of the force is kind of leaving me with the feeling the movie has gone too far.  I guess anything can happen if Leia can survive after being frozen in space.  I did think the storyline otherwise was fine and very star wars esque.  Mostly felt right even if the chase was really slow and plodding, but I had no issues with the side missions and the similar Empire Strikes Back Yoda/Luke and Rey/Luke similarities (and there were other similarities).  The action sequences were really fun and I had no issues with the ending.  Sadly, Mark Hamill seemed to be by far the best actor in this new trilogy and we didn't get enough of him though.

My rankings (of course subject to change as I see the movie again at some point and maybe my views change):

Return of the Jedi
A New Hope
Empire Strikes Back
The Force Awakens
Revenge of the Syth
The Last Jedi
Phantom Menace
Rogue One
Attack of the Clones
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: lonestar on December 21, 2017, 08:47:20 AM
Rankings....


Return of the Jedi
A New Hope
Rogue One
Empire Strikes Back
The Last Jedi
Revenge of the Sith
The Force Awakens







Attack of the Clones
The Phantom Menace
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: bosk1 on December 21, 2017, 09:04:39 AM
I'm still giddy about the movie and willing to overlook its flaws.  Hard to say at this stage whether that will hold up and I will continue to hold the movie in such high regard down the road, or if I will end up feeling like it just wasn't well done.  Right now, I just really like it and feel like it was a great story with some parts that were well done, some parts that weren't, and some parts in between.  And I can say that about a LOT of movies that I like a lot.

I do want to come back to the Leia thing for just a second though, because something occurs to me.  I have heard that, as much as VII was Han's movie, and VIII was Luke's movie, the plan was for IX to be Leia's movie.  If that is true, maybe part of the plan was for her to be revealed to be much more in tune with the force than we had previously realized and much more than had previously been revealed, and her space walk was something that was supposed to help set that up?  And if that is the case, her untimely and obviously unanticipated passing away AFTER they had the entire film shot would have made it really difficult and impractical to remove that.  But if there was indeed some sort of planned context for it that actually would have made it have a big, more satisfying payoff later, I can be a bit more forgiving of what I think most of us would consider the biggest (or at least one of the two biggest) flaws in this film.  Yeah, even if it was planned to set up something rewarding later, it's still a silly and awkward scene that could have been done any number of ways to reduce or eliminate the silliness/awkwardness.  But still, it may have at least had a grander purpose than we realize.  Just speculating here.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: gmillerdrake on December 21, 2017, 09:18:07 AM
I'm still giddy about the movie and willing to overlook its flaws.  Hard to say at this stage whether that will hold up and I will continue to hold the movie in such high regard down the road, or if I will end up feeling like it just wasn't well done.  Right now, I just really like it and feel like it was a great story with some parts that were well done, some parts that weren't, and some parts in between.  And I can say that about a LOT of movies that I like a lot.

Yeah....this statement fits me as well. As I said the first time I saw it I was just bummed because 'I' had this idea of how Luke's story should go. I really anticipated this massive fight scene with him just light saber fighting a ton of people and kicking a$$. When that didn't happen I was so distracted and upset I didn't enjoy or even try to understand how they used him in the story.

Second viewing changed it all for me and I can overlook the Leah deal and the casino run....even the moments when the humor fell flat. I thought it was a beautiful 'end' to Luke's story (although I can't imagine he doesn't show back up as a Force Ghost at some point next film) and it used his legend and never before seen Jedi power perfectly to rekindle the rebellion.

But this movie is certainly a divider of SW fans. And, I don't think it's going to reach the $2 billion mark which will probably tick Disney off a bit.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Logain Ablar on December 21, 2017, 12:28:09 PM
My current ranking would be:

Empire
A New Hope
Return of The Jedi
Rogue One
The Force Awakens
Revenge of the Sith
Phantom Menace
Attack of the Clones

Iím not going to attempt to slot TLJ in until after a second viewing. At this point Iím thinking it was worse than TFA, but is it worse than any of the prequels? Will see after Saturday.

Return of the Jedi
A New Hope
Empire Strikes Back
The Force Awakens
Revenge of the Syth
The Last Jedi
Phantom Menace
Rogue One
Attack of the Clones

^ Iím a bit surprised to see RO so low down. Did you really not like it very much?
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: cramx3 on December 21, 2017, 12:36:19 PM
Yea, thought it was boring and had really uninteresting characters that I really didn't care at all about when they died.  Looked well made and had an awesome ending with Vader, but I actually fell asleep in the theater for a few minutes cause I was so uninterested, plus you knew the ending so it was all just meh.  I did debate internally about putting it above Phantom Menace though, but I actually enjoyed my first watch of that movie on some level, I really didn't care for RO at all at the end of the day.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: bosk1 on December 21, 2017, 12:42:04 PM
I feel like it's too early, but after I saw TLJ last Saturday, I immediately said, "That may be the best one yet."  I still feel that way, but I know I could very well lose interest and feel it doesn't age well as time goes by.  I really like what has been done since Disney took over, but I am REALLY expecting to not like Solo.  Then again, I fully expected to not like Rogue One either.  Anyhow, I guess my rankings at this moment would be:

The Last Jedi
Rogue One
The Force Awakens
The Empire Strikes Back
Return of the Jedi
A New Hope
Revenge of the Sith
The Phantom Menace
The Clone Wars
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Logain Ablar on December 21, 2017, 01:00:00 PM
Fair comment about Rogue One, cram. It definitely had itís ropey parts. Slow start, characters like Saw werenít really fleshed out, some of the Vader dialogue was a bit strange and forced, but I thought the crescendo to the end of the movie redeemed it.

Iím wondering what it would be like to go back in time to 77/80/83 and view the original movies for the first time, but with my current 42 year old selfís eyes. What would I think of them? Would I see plot holes and undeveloped characters, and all that, or would I just get swept along for the ride?
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: cramx3 on December 21, 2017, 01:12:55 PM
Yea, I think that's a good question.  Also, let those movies sit for 30 years too.  I only saw TLJ last night for the first time, maybe on future watches I realize I actually love it?  I definitely liked TFA more after my second watch. 

My coworker and I have talked a lot about TLJ today and he said "HBO has spoiled us" which got me thinking that it may be true.  Such awesome TV show productions have kind of leveled the playing field with big time movies.  HBO has had some really amazing acting as well. 

I'd like to also add that maybe my favorite new (well to in the latest trilogy) character is General Hux.  Him being trolled was a great scene.  But also his rivalry with Kylo is interesting to me.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: gmillerdrake on December 21, 2017, 01:43:37 PM
Yea, I think that's a good question.  Also, let those movies sit for 30 years too.  I only saw TLJ last night for the first time, maybe on future watches I realize I actually love it?  I definitely liked TFA more after my second watch. 

I've recently re-watched the OT, and I still love them. BUT...when you take a step back and try to separate the emotional connection and view them just as critically as TFA and TLJ have been viewed.....they have plenty of issues as well. It's just they are forgiven due to the fact the majority of us were very young and were just captivated by the story and all the cool stuff to where we overlooked things like Luke/Leah/Han being in some weird love triangle in ANH then suddenly Luke and Leah are siblings?

I hadn't watched TFA in probably a year prior to re-watching it a couple weeks ago and it aged well and I enjoyed it greatly. I'll probably go see TLJ two more times in the theaters....once in IMAX and probably take the kiddos to see it again and I can see myself enjoying it more each time.



My coworker and I have talked a lot about TLJ today and he said "HBO has spoiled us" which got me thinking that it may be true.  Such awesome TV show productions have kind of leveled the playing field with big time movies.  HBO has had some really amazing acting as well. 

It's not just HBO...there's a lot of great series/movies out there. NETFLIX, AMAZON....have great shows.....shoot 'Mr. Robot' on USA could possibly be the best show on air right now. Vikings on History channel....and I'm sure there are dozens others that are just Really Good. So many outlets for people to tell amazing stories....very spoiled.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: bosk1 on December 21, 2017, 02:03:53 PM
Yea, I think that's a good question.  Also, let those movies sit for 30 years too.  I only saw TLJ last night for the first time, maybe on future watches I realize I actually love it?  I definitely liked TFA more after my second watch. 

I've recently re-watched the OT, and I still love them. BUT...when you take a step back and try to separate the emotional connection and view them just as critically as TFA and TLJ have been viewed.....they have plenty of issues as well. It's just they are forgiven due to the fact the majority of us were very young and were just captivated by the story and all the cool stuff to where we overlooked things like Luke/Leah/Han being in some weird love triangle in ANH then suddenly Luke and Leah are siblings?

Well, and context matters as well.  We forgive a lot in ANH because nobody was doing sci-fi when it came out.  We've had a LOT of good sci-fi in the 40 years since then that we can now (unfairly) compare it to.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: cramx3 on December 21, 2017, 02:25:22 PM
For me, I didn't even see the original trilogy until they released the newer editted versions in the theaters.  So for me, and I imagine other younger people, they OT was still watched up against other newer sci-fi classics.  For me, the OT was still really awesome.

My friend was saying that maybe my view of the attempt at comedy was a bit too much as maybe the SW audience is a bit younger.  I'm not sure I buy that.  There wasn't anyone laughing in my theater (packed last night) and I can't say if a younger version of myself would have found it funny.  Having said that, I did really enjoy the couple who oversaw the Jedi island and also the one shot of the iron that looked like it could have been a ship landing.  I thought those were good thought out comedic moments, the rest of the one liners were otherwise terribly not funny.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: bosk1 on December 21, 2017, 02:33:13 PM
The only slight spoiler I had going in (aside from the trailers themselves) was that I had heard the tone was very different from prior films, and that that was attributable to the humor.  That really made me nervous.  I was pleasantly surprised that I liked the humor.  I can't think of any jokes/humor that missed, unless you count the milk scene as "humor."  Well, actually, as I type this, there were also a few moments of slapstick humor on Canto Bight in the casino that didn't work for me.  But I thought that those slapstick bits were actually very consistent with what Lucas gave us in ROTJ and the PT films, so I felt they were easy to overlook as just part of the SW universe anyway.  I was fine with that aspect of the film and actively enjoyed a good deal of it.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: cramx3 on December 21, 2017, 02:52:02 PM
But I thought that those slapstick bits were actually very consistent with what Lucas gave us in ROTJ and the PT films, so I felt they were easy to overlook as just part of the SW universe anyway.  I was fine with that aspect of the film and actively enjoyed a good deal of it.

I agree with that too, and that's a big part of the PT that I didn't like either.  Which really I guess just comes down to execution for me.  There was nothing inherently wrong with it, it just didn't work out for my tastes, and I kind of felt most of the movie went that way. 

A lot of people didn't like some of the plots of Luke's character (Mark Hamill himself didn't like it I read today) but none of that really bothered me.  I actually kind of dug the story in this one.  Luke, to me, had one of the most interesting storylines in this episode and actually had a arc fleshed out from beginning to end of the movie.  I liked that.  It may have not been totally within the character that Lucas created in the OT, but I do think it did work.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Phoenix87x on December 21, 2017, 04:24:35 PM
Mark hamil's thoughts on Luke in TLJ:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EIY-PsHrj9A
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: bosk1 on December 21, 2017, 04:45:42 PM
Mark hamil's thoughts on Luke in TLJ:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EIY-PsHrj9A

I had read those comments, but hadn't seen the clip.  A couple of thoughts:

First, he isn't really saying what some of the headlines of articles that quote parts of that say that he is saying.  He isn't saying he "hates" the new film.  It's more that the interpretation of Luke's character in this trilogy is so different than what he thought the character should be that it was (and still is) having difficulty wrapping his mind around how the same Luke could have arrived at the mindset we find him in in TLJ.

Second, notwithstanding that he played the character of Luke Skywalker and, as such, had to internalize the character and come up with his own deep understanding of what motivated Luke, he is wrong that that same Luke couldn't have, 30 years later, become THIS Luke.  The motivation is there by the backstory given by Abrams and Johnson, and if he doesn't understand that, he doesn't really understand human nature.  If he disagrees that Luke wouldn't have arrived at that mindset, that's cool.  But he can't really disagree that Luke couldn't have arrived there.

Third, again, despite the fact that he WAS Luke, Mark Hammill is, at the end of the day (1) just an actor and not the creative vision behind the character, and (2) just kind of is and always has been a bit odd in the way he thinks about things.  If you go back and read/watch interviews through the years, he always has been.  And he disagreed with and was outspoken about a lot of Lucas' vision of the character as well, which he seems to have forgotten. 

So, at the end of the day, his opinion does mean something.  But it doesn't mean a lot.  If anything, the job he did with Luke in this film, both in terms of quality and in terms of him being able to pull it off despite apparently serious misgivings, shows that his acting chops have grown quite a bit. 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

On a completely different note, this is infuriating:

Quote
One big question writer/direct Rian Johnson left fans with wasóagain, spoiler warningówho is that Force-sensitive child at the end of the film? Predictably, there are already theories about the kid's identity and the role he may play in Episode IX.

Fan theories about who the kid is and what role he will play completely miss the point of Ep. VIII.  He is nobody.  And he will probably NOT show up again.  He doesn't need to.  That's the point.  If he shows up and is a significant character, that pretty much undermines one of the major themes of this film.   :facepalm:
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: noxon on December 21, 2017, 06:01:36 PM
I loved The Last Jedi, and I am a huge Star Wars fan. I do not get the outrage about the movie at all. The flaws in the movie is nothing worse than any flaws in any of the other movies - they've always been movies that we loved BECAUSE of the silly stuff ;)

Here's an interesting article going through a bit of what the series was originally supposed to be like:

http://www.gamesradar.com/the-secret-history-of-the-star-wars-movies-we-never-got-to-see-and-one-that-could-still-happen/
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: TioJorge on December 22, 2017, 01:43:09 AM
I'm not putting spoiler warnings because if you're in here not expecting spoilers, you deserve to be spoiled; that said I won't be saying anything totally abrupt and obvious. Saw it, I enjoyed it. I'm not into SW much, and thus this is through the eyes of someone that quite literally saw it because it was a good date night and there was nothing else out that looked remotely up my ally. So pretty much like every other SW movie I've seen.

So things that stood out to me as someone viewing the series as such, the EXTREMELY Marvel-esque comedy routine jumped right out at me, some in a great way, but most in a "eh, reaching" way. Nothing that was as cringe inducing as many describe but noticeable nonetheless. Also very surprised they killed off two very (one seemingly, one obviously) important characters in a fairly quick fashion (maybe?). It was awesome seeing the OG shorty master and I thought the way they portrayed him was really perfect; the scene was really touching and introspective (par the course for his scenes) and it was to the point and didn't have too much fan service.

Overall I thought it was really fun. Definitely had some of the greatest sci/fi aerial battle scenes I've ever seen, that initial dreadnaught scene with Poe was just awesome and really set the tone for the action. It's really funny seeing so many people rage like temperamental teens over this though (hardly read the thread at all so I'm not talking about anyone here), and makes me think about series that I care about just as much that I may overreact to or may be jaded and blind to towards certain aspects. Because it's very obvious some people had and held expectations that were never going to be met. That's clear with most hardcore fans of anything, but it truly seems like SW fans just take that shit and get as serious as a fucking heroine addiction with it. And meth. And cocaine. And alcohol. And skooma. Fucking psychos, some of you bastards.  :lol :-*

(Seriously though, I've felt the same, it's just funny being on the outside for once; that doesn't happen all that often with me)

Ed: Going through some previous comments. If I had any thoughts on Luke, it'd probably be what Bosk has said. I can see why fans would be confused/angry over his extreme turn in the movie. I can also see how they are abso-fucking-lutely letting their own fantasy of what the character "should" be to them get in the way of what was actually shown in the movies. When you like something so much that it becomes more than just a "whatever" (game/movie/book/song), you fantasize about it and in a way make it your own, tailor it to your own self. Which can be great, but it can also lose what is actually there somewhere along the line. A whole hell of a lot of people had theories that were pulled straight from the very depths of people's asses.

Speaking as someone who has seen the movies a few times and other than playing KOTOR, has no other SW knowledge, I thought the turn was surprising but also could be followed very logically and realistic. The whole problem with it is that we have no info other than the extremely short bursts of backstory we get in the movie itself. There was no easing and transition. Last we saw Luke, he was the shining poster boy for all things Light. Then we're thrown into the current film and he is a totally different character. That'd be jarring for any character and with that much of a time skip. No one in the world, however big a fan, can really say jack about any character change when there is that much of a gap in time and that little info about said change. With what he said in the movie and what crumbs they gave us, it all fits together about as nicely as it can considering that. What's funny is that so many of the people protesting such change always refer back to fantasy scenarios with what Luke "should've" been or what Luke "would've" done, yadda yadda. Again, idealistic thoughts for what they want the character to be. There's really nothing to cite other than...well, the originals, and who the hell can accurately compare a young adult to an old man and with the info of what amounts to a few fleeting moments say "yes, I understand how he became who he is today". Nobody.

Ed ed: Wow I wrote a lot more than I thought I would. Well the movie got me to speak more about SW than I ever have before soooo...  :tup :tup :lol
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Cruithne on December 22, 2017, 03:51:10 AM
1.) In the moment that Rey sees Kylo Ren shirtless......he has no visible laser wound on his side where Chewbacca shot him? I'm guessing it's been what, a matter of three or four days....a week?

Whilst TLJ essentially picks up straight where TFA left off, the amount of time Rey actually spends on the island with Luke is unspecified movie time and we don't know when the opening of the film is in relation to Rey's time on the island... they don't put captions up on the screen in Star Wars films saying things like "Three months earlier", so we have to take an (un)educated guess.

Anyway. I'd have to watch the scene when he gets shot again and compare it to the shirtless scene to see if the impact point should actually be visible.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: IDontNotDoThings on December 22, 2017, 04:40:48 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J08fHeAWWiU

Usually I don't post reviews, but this one made me  :angry:
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Podaar on December 22, 2017, 05:42:51 AM
I'm not putting spoiler warnings because if you're in here not expecting spoilers, you deserve to be spoiled; that said I won't be saying anything totally abrupt and obvious. Saw it, I enjoyed it. I'm not into SW much, and thus this is through the eyes of someone that quite literally saw it because it was a good date night and there was nothing else out that looked remotely up my ally. So pretty much like every other SW movie I've seen.

So things that stood out to me as someone viewing the series as such, the EXTREMELY Marvel-esque comedy routine jumped right out at me, some in a great way, but most in a "eh, reaching" way. Nothing that was as cringe inducing as many describe but noticeable nonetheless. Also very surprised they killed off two very (one seemingly, one obviously) important characters in a fairly quick fashion (maybe?). It was awesome seeing the OG shorty master and I thought the way they portrayed him was really perfect; the scene was really touching and introspective (par the course for his scenes) and it was to the point and didn't have too much fan service.

Overall I thought it was really fun. Definitely had some of the greatest sci/fi aerial battle scenes I've ever seen, that initial dreadnaught scene with Poe was just awesome and really set the tone for the action. It's really funny seeing so many people rage like temperamental teens over this though (hardly read the thread at all so I'm not talking about anyone here), and makes me think about series that I care about just as much that I may overreact to or may be jaded and blind to towards certain aspects. Because it's very obvious some people had and held expectations that were never going to be met. That's clear with most hardcore fans of anything, but it truly seems like SW fans just take that shit and get as serious as a fucking heroine addiction with it. And meth. And cocaine. And alcohol. And skooma. Fucking psychos, some of you bastards.  :lol :-*

(Seriously though, I've felt the same, it's just funny being on the outside for once; that doesn't happen all that often with me)

Ed: Going through some previous comments. If I had any thoughts on Luke, it'd probably be what Bosk has said. I can see why fans would be confused/angry over his extreme turn in the movie. I can also see how they are abso-fucking-lutely letting their own fantasy of what the character "should" be to them get in the way of what was actually shown in the movies. When you like something so much that it becomes more than just a "whatever" (game/movie/book/song), you fantasize about it and in a way make it your own, tailor it to your own self. Which can be great, but it can also lose what is actually there somewhere along the line. A whole hell of a lot of people had theories that were pulled straight from the very depths of people's asses.

Speaking as someone who has seen the movies a few times and other than playing KOTOR, has no other SW knowledge, I thought the turn was surprising but also could be followed very logically and realistic. The whole problem with it is that we have no info other than the extremely short bursts of backstory we get in the movie itself. There was no easing and transition. Last we saw Luke, he was the shining poster boy for all things Light. Then we're thrown into the current film and he is a totally different character. That'd be jarring for any character and with that much of a time skip. No one in the world, however big a fan, can really say jack about any character change when there is that much of a gap in time and that little info about said change. With what he said in the movie and what crumbs they gave us, it all fits together about as nicely as it can considering that. What's funny is that so many of the people protesting such change always refer back to fantasy scenarios with what Luke "should've" been or what Luke "would've" done, yadda yadda. Again, idealistic thoughts for what they want the character to be. There's really nothing to cite other than...well, the originals, and who the hell can accurately compare a young adult to an old man and with the info of what amounts to a few fleeting moments say "yes, I understand how he became who he is today". Nobody.

Ed ed: Wow I wrote a lot more than I thought I would. Well the movie got me to speak more about SW than I ever have before soooo...  :tup :tup :lol

Great post, TJ. I agree with everything that isn't explicitly vulgar, which could be said for every post you've ever made on this forum.  :lol
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: kaos2900 on December 22, 2017, 07:48:34 AM
I didn't have problem with the humor. I've been very impressed with every answer the director has given in regards to some the controversial choices he made. He was focused on story and character development, not fan service. This is why TLJ and Empire are in my opinion the two best Star Wars Films. They both took risks and are really not like any of the other films.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: gmillerdrake on December 22, 2017, 08:15:44 AM
1.) In the moment that Rey sees Kylo Ren shirtless......he has no visible laser wound on his side where Chewbacca shot him? I'm guessing it's been what, a matter of three or four days....a week?

Whilst TLJ essentially picks up straight where TFA left off, the amount of time Rey actually spends on the island with Luke is unspecified movie time and we don't know when the opening of the film is in relation to Rey's time on the island... they don't put captions up on the screen in Star Wars films saying things like "Three months earlier", so we have to take an (un)educated guess.

Is there an 'agreed upon' estimate of how much time has passed? Finn is just waking up from his wound/hospital stay.....Ren's wounds are healed/near healed....tough to say how many days Rey has been on the island....3 or 4? Maybe a week has gone by?

Anyway. I'd have to watch the scene when he gets shot again and compare it to the shirtless scene to see if the impact point should actually be visible.

Having just watched it....it looks to me that it was his left/lower rib cage....with a mix of maybe a glancing blow or just right on his side. 
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: gmillerdrake on December 22, 2017, 08:16:28 AM
I didn't have problem with the humor. I've been very impressed with every answer the director has given in regards to some the controversial choices he made. He was focused on story and character development, not fan service. This is why TLJ and Empire are in my opinion the two best Star Wars Films. They both took risks and are really not like any of the other films.

totally that.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Implode on December 22, 2017, 08:34:28 AM
I'm gonna be that guy and chime in that pretty much every joke fell flat for me. They all felt terribly out of place and kind of embarrassing.  :P
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Adami on December 22, 2017, 08:57:56 AM
I'm gonna be that guy and chime in that pretty much every joke fell flat for me. They all felt terribly out of place and kind of embarrassing.  :P

I'd say, for me personally, about 80% or so missed completely. I can't think of too many that took me out of the movie, but there were a few.



Also I really like the director's ideas and intentions, I'm just not sold on the execution for all of it. A good idea isn't a good execution.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: TioJorge on December 22, 2017, 10:43:02 AM
Big post is big.

Great post, TJ. I agree with everything that isn't explicitly vulgar, which could be said for every post you've ever made on this forum.  :lol

 :P Thanks! To my credit that's a lot less vulgar than my posts a year or two ago.  :angel: I had a whole lot of coffee yesterday evening. Oops!

I'll echo the statements made about the director's comments, he's been fairly neutral and even keeled about the whole thing and you gotta respect that when there's a whole lot of people doing the exact opposite and basically grabbing pitchforks en masse. It really seems to me that the vast majority of the people who abhorrently defy the film are those that could be considered big fans. That's obviously not always the case (especially here), but I think it does speak volumes about hype and expectations in general (also fan theories).
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: masterthes on December 22, 2017, 10:51:04 AM
regarding if Kylo Ren was telling the truth about Rey's parents:  If they were truly nobodies, how would he even know that/who they were?
Here's a really weird, out there theory: did Han have any siblings? 
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: bosk1 on December 22, 2017, 11:05:38 AM
regarding if Kylo Ren was telling the truth about Rey's parents:  If they were truly nobodies, how would he even know that/who they were?
Here's a really weird, out there theory: did Han have any siblings? 
Not that we know of.  My initial reaction to a theory like that is that it would seem too out of nowhere and, thus, contrived.  But who knows?  I suppose it could be done in a way that is convincing enough. 

As far as Kylo Ren knowing, if he is indeed telling the truth, I'm sure there are plausible ways he could have found out, especially with his powers. 
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: kaos2900 on December 22, 2017, 11:37:45 AM
Kylo was digging around in Rey's head in TFA so maybe he saw her parent then.

In regards to the outrage from fans, I'm not sure really where that's coming from. I'd say 90% of the people I know who are star wars fans loved it.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: kaos2900 on December 22, 2017, 11:40:59 AM
Mark hamil's thoughts on Luke in TLJ:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EIY-PsHrj9A

My problem with his comments is the timing. Why throw fuel on the fire? I can't imagine Disney was happy with that.  Based on the other cannon, specifically Rebels and The Clone Wars, I think it's very realistic for a jedi to do what Luke did. I never thought that Luke gave up. I viewed it more that he was sacrificing himself via seclusion to protect others whom he loved. There are lots of examples of Jedi losing confidence and needing a shove in the right direction which is why Yoda showed up.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: lordxizor on December 22, 2017, 01:12:33 PM
Kylo was digging around in Rey's head in TFA so maybe he saw her parent then.
But how would he know they are dead in a pauper's grave or whatever it was that he said? He couldn't have learned that from Rey's mind. Either he has powers to search the galaxy for specific people, he did some research after learning about then through Rey's mind, or was making shit up to get what he wanted from her. Personally I think they never address how he knew and that what he said was correct, but it is a bit of a gap.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: TheOutlawXanadu on December 22, 2017, 01:49:44 PM
This is more of a half-baked observation than anything else, but I feel like backlashes are becoming the norm, at least with regards to huge franchises. I first saw it happen with the Mass Effect series a few years back when people didn't like the ending. It started happening with Game of Thrones this year when people felt the writing dropped off. It happened with the DC Universe. Now it's happening with Star Wars.

We can debate all day about why these backlashes are happening and whether they're justified. I just feel like they're becoming more and more common, for whatever reason, you know?
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: TioJorge on December 22, 2017, 01:56:55 PM
Eh, I mean all of those series you mentioned have huge legions of zealots as well, I'd say that's the main factor and no coincidence.  :lol

I get what you're saying though, but I feel like that kind of culture is just apart of the internet and I feel like it's been around pretty much as long as millions of people have had a voice has.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: jingle.boy on December 22, 2017, 02:09:29 PM
Kylo was digging around in Rey's head in TFA so maybe he saw her parent then.
But how would he know they are dead in a pauper's grave or whatever it was that he said? He couldn't have learned that from Rey's mind. Either he has powers to search the galaxy for specific people, he did some research after learning about then through Rey's mind, or was making shit up to get what he wanted from her. Personally I think they never address how he knew and that what he said was correct, but it is a bit of a gap.

Sure he could.  She could very easily have suppressed memories from childhood - especially traumatic ones.  Or, he maybe he's bullshitting her.  Either way, this story point was not one of the (many) problems/annoyances with the movie.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Implode on December 22, 2017, 02:14:02 PM
Xanadu, I think you're right. But I also think that huge corporations lazily making products that will simply sell and then be immediately forgotten as become a big thing. Not saying that's what TLJ is, but many big movies nowadays feel like that.

TLJ isn't the worst thing ever. It doesn't need to have petitions saying it should be written out of canon. I thought the characters were amazing, and it had some of the greatest star wars moments ever. Over all it just had too many issues for me to say it was great. That's just my opinion though. I don't think it ruined anything of is some sort of scar on the star wars universe like some people are making it out to be.

At the same time I find it interesting that so many more people are coming out now and saying TFA was terrible, when I actually thought it was totally solid. Not AMAZING, but definitely good. All these new movies seem like they are just going to be really polarizing from now on...so basically we'll always be arguing about the latest star wars movie during every future holiday season.  :|

Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Destiny Of Chaos on December 22, 2017, 02:45:25 PM
Finally saw TLJ and loved just about everything about it. Going to let it marinate for a few days before attempting to rank.

I do think Snoke is still alive and that Kylo Ren Mary Poppined his mom back to the ship.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: bosk1 on December 22, 2017, 02:46:44 PM
Kylo Ren Mary Poppined his mom back to the ship.

That's an interesting theory I hadn't thought of.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Polarbear on December 22, 2017, 02:53:28 PM
At the same time I find it interesting that so many more people are coming out now and saying TFA was terrible, when I actually thought it was totally solid. Not AMAZING, but definitely good. All these new movies seem like they are just going to be really polarizing from now on...so basically we'll always be arguing about the latest star wars movie during every future holiday season.  :|

Trying to please the entire Star Wars fanbase, is pretty much a no win situation at this point.

I have lost count at the amount of rage filled meltdown videos, i've encountered on youtube this past week regarding TLJ.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: jingle.boy on December 22, 2017, 03:52:15 PM
Probably better for the humour thread, but whatever.

Don't Stop Darth Vader (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F19hsXoBdw0)
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: soupytwist on December 23, 2017, 01:29:11 AM
For those boring people (like me) who follow box office numbers - TLJ is currently well down on where the Force Awakens was after a week, but up on Rogue One.  If that trend continues its heading for around 1,5 billion worldwide.    if the backlash is genuine then it could end up lower, and it misses out on the all important repeat viewing, this second weekend drop off will tell us more.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Phoenix87x on December 23, 2017, 06:57:37 AM
So, did every single person on the casino planet get rich from selling weapons or was that just an overassumption from Rose?

This is her quote:

"Who do you think these people are, there's only one business that will get you this rich, selling weapons to the first order"

I thought only Sith deal in absolutes?  ;)

Rose gets super judgmental and high and mighty, yet the rebellion has done some nasty, guerrilla warfare shady shit to survive over the years. They aren't squeaky clean and free of criticism, and those in glass houses shouldn't be throwing stones.

And I was shocked that the first order's sensors didn't pick up on Finn and rose flying away from the fleet on their way to the casino planet. In ANH, the empire was ready to blow up a tiny escape pod seconds after it launched. A way they could have given Phasma more to do would have been to have her track the ship to the casino planet and unravel or antagonize Finn/roses plans. 

And also, Ren and his 3 back up tie fighters were now out of range of the First order's cover fire, so they were called back. Well, they have hundreds if not thousands of tie fighters (and disposable pilots) that they could just launch and decimate the last remaining pieces of the resistance. Like a chess game, sacrificing pawns could have gotten them the checkmate. But instead we got the slow speed pursuit.

And are we really to believe that in all that time on the island, Rey never once asks "hey, who's this Snoke guy", seriously?  Knowing nothing about this villain or his motivations makes him flat and one-dimensional. And I was actually really getting into his character. Just one single scene with a couple mins of luke saying "here's the deal with snoke" or even him at the the least acknowledging like "rey, I don't know where this evil presence came from, but I do know that he has immense power and is not to be underestimated" throw me a bone

And why does luke/anakin's lightsaber "call to" some random junk orphan girl. Since when do inanimate objects call to people? I found that strange while watching TFA but was like "well, its got all this history and heavy emotions surrounding it from it's skywalker users, so maybe it would react a little to a skywalker". That stretch I was willing to accept, but not to some random junk girl who is nobody and came from nothing and is just some nobody. And if she was a skywalker, then I could kind of buy her inate abilities, but being nobody who came from nothing special, for her to be a master fighter, master pilot, master engineer, master jedi and defeater of a trained, experienced heir of Vader for god's sake is bullshit. I dismissed her being a mary sue in TFA since I thought there would be some justification, but now as far as I'm concerned is 100% Mary sue and a very boring character for that. Ultimately, I would be totally cool with her coming from nothing, but there should be a struggle and effort for her success and ability. For it to come without earning or working for anything makes for a boing character that I can't invest in.

And the impression I got from TFA is that Luke went to the island to gain some knowledge, recover and rise from the ashes stronger than before so that he could face his unfinished business of Ren and Snoke. Not someone who just gave up. TLJ luke thinks the best thing to do is let the Jedi end, but by doing so he's willingly letting the Dark side rise. I just can't get behind that. And if you absolutely don't want to be found and absolutely want to just give up, then why provide a map of how to get to you. I took away from TFA that he was like "I'm going away so I can get my shit together. If shit really hits the fan before I am back, then here's a way for you to get to me, and then we will figure out a plan from there".   TFA and TLJ just feel so wildly different and unconnected.

The score is weak as well. Nothing really memorable, with the exception of the re-used themes from previous films. And in all honesty I don't put the fault with john williams. The dude's 85 for god's sake and he's delivered more than enough excellent material throughout his career. So it is what it is.

The more I think about The last jedi, the more I realize that its just like sand. Its coarse and rough and it gets everywhere. Ugh...
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: BlobVanDam on December 23, 2017, 07:26:44 AM
I'd say definitely an assumption/exaggeration on her part (wouldn't expect her to really know), although as we later found out, these people apparently sell stuff to the good guys too, even though the good guys now consists of 5 people on a second hand ship.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: jingle.boy on December 23, 2017, 09:12:59 AM
*snip*
The more I think about The last jedi, the more I realize that its just like sand. Its coarse and rough and it gets everywhere. Ugh...

:clap:

And I agree with you 100% again.

I'd say definitely an assumption/exaggeration on her part (wouldn't expect her to really know), although as we later found out, these people apparently sell stuff to the good guys too, even though the good guys now consists of 5 people on a second hand ship.

Not just ANY second hand ship, one that did the Kessel Run in less than 12 parsecs.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Logain Ablar on December 23, 2017, 10:54:40 AM
Just back from a second viewing, and fair play, it was a bit better the second time around. Some parts were still as bad - that floating Leia scenes is one of the stupidest things Iíve ever seen - but most bits that annoyed me last time were less grating this time. Some things about Luke still bug me, but there is more to like than there is to dislike.

Even the humour, even though I still found it misplaced at times, I have to grudgingly admit that itís the humour of this generation, not mine.

So do I like it better than TFA? Itís close, but I think TLJ may just sit ahead of it, but still behind Rogue One for me. I think my original 6/10 rating may go up a point, but will let it settle some more before deciding.

One thing Iíd say though is that itís too long. 10 or 15 mins less would have felt like a more comfortable length.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: TheOutlawXanadu on December 23, 2017, 03:41:37 PM
Alright. Just saw it for the second time. My opinion right now is that itís an enjoyable movie with great moments. I must admit that I probably overhyped myself on this one. I got myself thinking it would be the second coming, but there ainít no problem with a merely ďfunĒ Star Wars flick.

My current rankings:

Tier I: Empire, ANH, TFA
Tier II: Return, Last
Tier III: Rogue, Sith
Tier IV: Menace, Clones

Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Phoenix87x on December 23, 2017, 05:11:42 PM
1. Empire
2. Rogue 1
3. TFA
4. RotS
5. RotJ
6. ANH
7. PM
8. Clones
9. TLJ
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Destiny Of Chaos on December 23, 2017, 06:02:38 PM
1. Revenge of the Sith
2. The Phantom Menace
3. The Empire Strikes Back
4. The Force Awakens
5. Rogue One
6. Return of the Jedi
7. Attack of the Clones
8. A New Hope


Will include The Last Jedi after its had time to settle....but I see it landing somewhere in the middle.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: noxon on December 23, 2017, 06:04:12 PM
54R786231
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Zantera on December 24, 2017, 04:54:19 AM
1. Empire
2. Force Awakens
3. Last Jedi
4. Return
5. New Hope
--
--
6. Rogue One
7. Phantom Menace
8. Clones
9. Revenge
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Destiny Of Chaos on December 24, 2017, 07:28:03 AM
I think that TLJ did suffer from not having the 3 plus years of development that the other films had. Disney's zeal for having something Star Wars to sell every December may have hurt this one a bit. However can't blame Disney for cashing in if the consumer is willing to pay.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: fadetoblackdude7 on December 24, 2017, 11:57:31 AM
I saw the film only once so far, and while I thought it was good, I was disappointed. Same things that most people were criticizing:

- Killing Snoke without giving his background was the biggest problem for me, given that he was so mysterious in TFA
- Little to no character development
- Bad humor just for the sake of it
- Luke's entire role in this movie - something just seemed off to me
- Leia's Superman moment - what was RJ thinking??

I gotta see the movie again, hopefully my opinion changes but right now, I rank this one towards the bottom
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: orcus116 on December 24, 2017, 02:17:46 PM
Was I the only one who didn't really have any feeling either way about Snoke? Even from the first movie I kept seeing him mentioned and I had to struggle to remember who he was because he's been handled in both movies as a really sterile plot device and nothing else.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Adami on December 24, 2017, 02:23:12 PM
Was I the only one who didn't really have any feeling either way about Snoke? Even from the first movie I kept seeing him mentioned and I had to struggle to remember who he was because he's been handled in both movies as a really sterile plot device and nothing else.

Yea, I keep seeing Snoke being pointless and Rey's parents being a misdirect as a bad thing. I'm fine with her parent's being nobodies. Snoke....eh. I think that was JJ's fault for trying to make it all mysterious and out of sync with everything else we know about that universe.

Dude seems VERY powerful, and very old. Yet NO ONE had any idea who he was before this? No one sensed a major Sith player? But in the end, you're right. He was never important.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: ProfessorPeart on December 24, 2017, 03:33:13 PM
I loved the movie. I like being challenged and as a 41 year old, this is my franchise and I had no complaints. I've seen every film in the theater since Return of the Jedi.

The biggest thing I am struggling with is people's total disbelief in Luke. Have they not seen the prior films?

First time we see Obi-wan - he is an hermit living in isolation on a desert planet with the cred of a wackjob.
Yoda - living as a hermit in isolation on a rain-forest planet with no interaction outside of creatures in the forest.
Luke after being a Jedi master - living as a hermit in isolation on a tiny island in the middle of nowhere on an unknown planet.

How is this a stretch? It seems that after you become a Master, things don't exactly work out the way you planned and you end up in hiding trying to live out your days.

In this day and age, it seems that people can't find enjoyment in anything. They go into something just waiting to pick it apart rather than just enjoying the ride and end up bashing the content creators. I could never come up with stuff like this. Thankfully, it allows me to garner more enjoyment than most, it seems, out of music/movies/TV. I'm fine with that.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Adami on December 24, 2017, 03:38:32 PM
I loved the movie. I like being challenged and as a 41 year old, this is my franchise and I had no complaints. I've seen every film in the theater since Return of the Jedi.

The biggest thing I am struggling with is people's total disbelief in Luke. Have they not seen the prior films?

First time we see Obi-wan - he is an hermit living in isolation on a desert planet with the cred of a wackjob.
Yoda - living as a hermit in isolation on a rain-forest planet with no interaction outside of creatures in the forest.
Luke after being a Jedi master - living as a hermit in isolation on a tiny island in the middle of nowhere on an unknown planet.

How is this a stretch? It seems that after you become a Master, things don't exactly work out the way you planned and you end up in hiding trying to live out your days.

In this day and age, it seems that people can't find enjoyment in anything. They go into something just waiting to pick it apart rather than just enjoying the ride and end up bashing the content creators. I could never come up with stuff like this. Thankfully, it allows me to garner more enjoyment than most, it seems, out of music/movies/TV. I'm fine with that.

I think you're not understanding the arguments against the Luke thing. Personally, I really liked where they brought his character, so this isn't an issue with me.

However, the issue other people have isn't that he's a hermit living on an island. It's that he has abandoned the force and think the Jedi need to end. It's that basic mentality.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: jammindude on December 24, 2017, 06:17:13 PM
Greatest Star Wars post Iíve ever seen!!! ROFLMBO

By Gus Krieger

This EMPIRE STRIKES BACK movie doesnít make any sense at all. So they blow up the Death Star but the Empireís just like NOT AFFECTED? They can still show up anywhere and do anything? Glad so many rebel pilots sacrificed themselves in A NEW HOPE, I guess. Plus uuuhhhh I donít think humans can survive in the arctic overnight with just a coat or some animal intestines. Itís called Biology 101. And since when can smugglers use lightsabers?? Oh and I guess now we have ghosts in this universe too. Ugh. To make no mention of the tiny insane frog person whoís apparently the galaxyís GREATEST JEDI MASTER?! Gimme a break. And while Luke is training, Han and Leia (who have NO IMPACT on the overall plot) get captured in like two seconds, so when Luke goes to rescue them, heís done his massive grand Jedi training in, what, forty-eight hours?! Makes no sense. And donít even get me started on this ďI am your fatherĒ horse crap. A whole entire galaxy and Vader JUST HAPPENED to be passing over his freaking ESTRANGED SONíS home planet when he lost the Death Star plans one movie earlier??? SMH. And OHMYGOD the ultimate cheap-ass-machina when Leia just kinda INTUITS they should turn around and go pick up dangling Luke. The franchise has officially jumped the shark. Hoping Marquand can turn it around for Episode VI, but Iím not holding my breath.

(In unrelated news, ďThe Last JediĒ is the best Star Wars film in over thirty years.)
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: jingle.boy on December 24, 2017, 06:29:57 PM
What Adami said.  Obi-Wan and Yoda still had their sense of duty to the Jedi ways, and still acted to help in the opposition of the Empire.  Luke was flippant and obstinate about everything from the first scene, tossing the lightsaber aside.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: jammindude on December 24, 2017, 06:40:44 PM
The more I think about the context of the entire thing, I thought it fit perfectly.   He's bitter.    The "legend status" had him thinking he could do anything....and then then coming face to face with his own failure dropped him all the way to the bottom after being on top of the world.   Completely a natural response.   
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Adami on December 24, 2017, 06:46:18 PM
The more I think about the context of the entire thing, I thought it fit perfectly.   He's bitter.    The "legend status" had him thinking he could do anything....and then then coming face to face with his own failure dropped him all the way to the bottom after being on top of the world.   Completely a natural response.

Yup!

Him tossing the light saber was still poorly executed.


I agree with Destiny in that it feels like the production was too fast for the movie. I think it could have benefited from another year or so of reflection on the script and so forth. It had some brilliant ideas that seemed a bit half baked.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Polarbear on December 25, 2017, 02:05:04 AM
The more I think about the context of the entire thing, I thought it fit perfectly.   He's bitter.    The "legend status" had him thinking he could do anything....and then then coming face to face with his own failure dropped him all the way to the bottom after being on top of the world.   Completely a natural response.

Yup!

Him tossing the light saber was still poorly executed.


I agree with Destiny in that it feels like the production was too fast for the movie. I think it could have benefited from another year or so of reflection on the script and so forth. It had some brilliant ideas that seemed a bit half baked.

Agree with both post's!

I disagree with some people (and even Mark Hamill apparently?) who say that it is not Luke Skywalker in this movie. He feels 100 percent like Luke. He's just Luke that has been dragged to hell and back, and then back to hell again. He's character arc is one of the best things about this movie!

Some things in the story could have been tighter. They could have used a bit more time with the production. But overall the positives far outweigh the negatives for me..
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: kingshmegland on December 25, 2017, 06:31:05 AM
What Adami said.  Obi-Wan and Yoda still had their sense of duty to the Jedi ways, and still acted to help in the opposition of the Empire.  Luke was flippant and obstinate about everything from the first scene, tossing the lightsaber aside.


I actually love that.  Not everybody act the same in real life so why would every Jedi react the same?  He let his emotions get the best of him.  He saw the dark and did not look past that.  A human emotion that I was glad to see.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: jingle.boy on December 25, 2017, 07:57:39 AM
What Adami said.  Obi-Wan and Yoda still had their sense of duty to the Jedi ways, and still acted to help in the opposition of the Empire.  Luke was flippant and obstinate about everything from the first scene, tossing the lightsaber aside.


I actually love that.  Not everybody act the same in real life so why would every Jedi react the same?  He let his emotions get the best of him.  He saw the dark and did not look past that.  A human emotion that I was glad to see.

I see your point, but I still think you're full of shit.   :biggrin:
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: kingshmegland on December 25, 2017, 08:35:05 AM
Well yeah but.....
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: ronnibran on December 25, 2017, 03:21:27 PM
Seeing the movie a second time definitely made me like it better.  Pretty much every specific complaint I had the first time around I realize I was over reacting about.  I mainly thought the story didn't feel like the middle of a trilogy (maybe wanted more of a cliffhanger?) and thought they should have developed Rey's character better.  But second time around I don't feel that way at all.  I thought Rey's character grew into something quite interesting (she was my favorite character from the film), and the story really kind of is at a cliff hanger in a way (can't think of the resistance being at more of a desperate state, and the First Order still has the upper hand).  And, it definitely doesn't feel like "the Jedi's" are going away (Luke said Kylo was wrong about him being the last Jedi, and you see that Rey has the Jedi books).

Great movie.  Not quite ready to rate it higher than TFA yet having only seeing it twice, but it's definitely jumped above the prequels for me.  My current rating is 4765832R1.  (I'm not a huge fan of Rogue one as you can see...  It's a decent movie, but doesn't have the replay value that the others have).  I imagine a few more views once I buy the blu ray and it may move up a couple spaces in my ranking, possibly.

edit:  One other thing that jumped out at me, that I don't recall being discussed (maybe it has and I missed it)...  Kylo told Hux when they were checking out Snoke's dead body that "the girl" killed Snoke.  Is that a possibility considering Snoke was supposedly reading Kylo's mind at the time of his death?  Or is it a clear lie from Kylo?  I would like to assume that Kylo did it, but then why would he even say that to Hux?  I would think he'd want to take responsibility for it and immediately instill fear as someone clearly stronger than Snoke. 
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: gmillerdrake on December 25, 2017, 06:06:26 PM
I think Ren was lying to Hux. Snokes attention was directed at keeping Rey immobilized so heíd have sniffed that out if it were her.

I think Ren fully betrayed Snoke and it was all him who killed him. His fist clenched to light the saber as well so I think it was Ren.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Adami on December 25, 2017, 06:13:10 PM
Yea, Ben killed Snoke. It was actually pretty clever doing both lightsabers at the same time so that he didn't notice.

He told Huxtable that Rey did it because I'm pretty sure the first order isn't cool with Klingon style promotions.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: lordxizor on December 25, 2017, 08:15:10 PM
Rumors that the Solo movie is going to suck. Not tremendously surprised, but still a bummer if it turns out to be true. Disney is bound to make a bad Star Wars movie eventually (I know many think TLJ is bad, but I don't.)

https://screenrant.com/han-solo-movie-bomb-disney-lucasfilm/
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Adami on December 25, 2017, 08:17:52 PM
It'll probably be mostly fine, but all things considered, it's going to stick out like a bit of a sore thumb in the box office. No way that movie does big numbers.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: BlobVanDam on December 25, 2017, 08:24:06 PM
I doubt it's *quite* as dire as they're suggesting, but I don't have high hopes for it at all, and I can't believe they're still going with a May release. Push it back to December and get it right. They'll lose a lot of goodwill having TLJ and Solo back to back, especially in the span of half a year. I think they'll be a lot more cautious going forward with who they trust to direct.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: lordxizor on December 25, 2017, 08:32:38 PM
I agree, push it back to December. Hopefully they'll learn that slapping Star Wars in the title isn't enough to make a movie successful.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Adami on December 25, 2017, 08:33:56 PM
I doubt it's *quite* as dire as they're suggesting, but I don't have high hopes for it at all, and I can't believe they're still going with a May release. Push it back to December and get it right. They'll lose a lot of goodwill having TLJ and Solo back to back, especially in the span of half a year. I think they'll be a lot more cautious going forward with who they trust to direct.

Still time to change it. I just assumed December was universal Star Wars moth from now on. Seems to work.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: BlobVanDam on December 25, 2017, 08:40:20 PM
I doubt it's *quite* as dire as they're suggesting, but I don't have high hopes for it at all, and I can't believe they're still going with a May release. Push it back to December and get it right. They'll lose a lot of goodwill having TLJ and Solo back to back, especially in the span of half a year. I think they'll be a lot more cautious going forward with who they trust to direct.

Still time to change it. I just assumed December was universal Star Wars moth from now on. Seems to work.

It seems to be the thing now to initially announce a May release then change it to December. I would have thought it would be a pretty late stage to change the release date by that much though.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Kattelox on December 25, 2017, 09:56:48 PM
I saw it tonight and just had a big ol' post written up airing every one of grievances but I'm going to sleep on it. For now, this movie sucks. I enjoyed it until the credits rolled and then after I left the theater my friend and I started bouncing our questions and problems off each other and boy howdy absolutely nothing holds up to analysis. Awful. Ocean wide, puddle deep, this trilogy. Episode IX probably isn't going to answer anything meaningful either and introduce another handful of characters that'll either die by the end or fall by the wayside along the heap of other useless garbage they foisted upon us here.

Very good effects though with an amazing lightsaber fight scene and some absolutely stunning cinematic shots (the shots after Holdo hits the Supremacy, WHOA).
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: lordxizor on December 26, 2017, 08:55:23 PM
Just got back from my second viewing. I loved it this time. Still a couple minor issues, but overall I really like this movie. I think my reservations from the first viewing mostly stemmed from it just not being what I expected.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: gmillerdrake on December 26, 2017, 09:18:03 PM
Just got back from my second viewing. I loved it this time. Still a couple minor issues, but overall I really like this movie. I think my reservations from the first viewing mostly stemmed from it just not being what I expected.

This was my experience exactly as well. I've said it a couple times already in this thread but my initial let down from the movie was the fact that none of what I 'thought' would happen....happened. After getting over that and then seeing it again, I love(d) the movie. going to see it again Thursday in IMAX
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: lordxizor on December 27, 2017, 05:41:16 AM
My biggest issue with TLJ after last night's viewing is Holdo. She's just completely unnecessary. Her role should have been filled by Ackbar. Instead of him being unceremoniously killed off and replaced with a character we don't care about, he should have been the one to take over for Leia and sacrifice himself. There was no emotional response at all to Holdo sacrificing herself since our only knowledge of her was that she was kind of a bitch. Ackbar has been a fan favorite for decades and it would have had more emotional punch.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: BlackInk on December 27, 2017, 08:05:38 AM
I donít mind Holdo. Her being a ĒbitchĒ is more a fault with the writers ignoring logical communication just to keep the plot moving rather than there being a character flaw. If anything, Poeís more at fault here, which was one of the more pleasant conceptual surprises of the movie even if the execution wasnít all that great. Iím a big Star Wars fan, but who the heck cares about Ackbar? Heís funny meme, and while I guess him sacrificing himself would have technically worked, I donít see why it matters.

In my opinion, of all the problems this movie has, Holdo isnít one of them.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: BlobVanDam on December 27, 2017, 08:12:16 AM
I agree that given that he's become more of a meme in recent years, it might have come across as silly to the audience if Ackbar sacrificed himself, and I'm not sure you could have fleshed him out enough in one movie to overcome that for that big moment.
I thought Holdo was a decent character, but she did come across as a bit unlikable for most of the movie (more because she was played as an antagonist to Poe, rather than her actually being a bitch I think), and we didn't find out until the end what she was up to. Finding out her plan was a nice enough part of Poe's arc, but it didn't help me care about her character when she sacrificed herself.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: jingle.boy on December 27, 2017, 08:16:37 AM
If they had made it Ackbar, what would've been great (in the cheesiest of possible ways) would've been for someone on the Bridge of Snoke's ship shout out "It's a trap!" when they realize they're gonna get hyperspace-rammed.

:itsatrap:
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: lordxizor on December 27, 2017, 08:23:47 AM
Her being a ĒbitchĒ is more a fault with the writers ignoring logical communication just to keep the plot moving rather than there being a character flaw.
Agreed. It just bugged me that they introduce a character only to have us hate her, then have her make a self sacrifice which was supposed to be an emotional moment. Just didn't work for me.

If anything, Poeís more at fault here
He definitely is, which I think was a good turn for this movie. The good guys make some major mistakes which cost them dearly.

I agree that given that he's become more of a meme in recent years, it might have come across as silly to the audience if Ackbar sacrificed himself, and I'm not sure you could have fleshed him out enough in one movie to overcome that for that big moment.
I guess I get that. It just seemed unnecessary to add a new character when there were existing characters that could have performed that role. Hell, even that giant nosed officer woman (no idea what her name is) would have worked. She was at least already in earlier scenes. One of my coworkers joked that the director must have owed Laura Dern a favor or something. Let's create an unnecessary character for her to play just so she can be in the movie.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: lordxizor on December 27, 2017, 08:28:35 AM
If they had made it Ackbar, what would've been great (in the cheesiest of possible ways) would've been for someone on the Bridge of Snoke's ship shout out "It's a trap!" when they realize they're gonna get hyperspace-rammed.

:itsatrap:
That would have been better than a few of the other cheesy jokes that made it in.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: BlobVanDam on December 27, 2017, 08:59:18 AM
If they had made it Ackbar, what would've been great (in the cheesiest of possible ways) would've been for someone on the Bridge of Snoke's ship shout out "It's a trap!" when they realize they're gonna get hyperspace-rammed.

:itsatrap:
That would have been better than a few of the other cheesy jokes that made it in.

And probably no more self-aware either.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: El Barto on December 28, 2017, 12:32:26 PM
A year out of date, but I watched Rogue One last night. I couldn't figure out why that Cassian fellow kept making me laugh. Then about halfway through I realized that he's Doctor Nick. Short swarthy guy with floppy hair, peach fuzz, and a goofy accent. Couldn't stop seeing it once I figured it out.

As for the movie, not particularly good from a cinema standpoint, but perfectly entertaining and enjoyable. There's something interesting to me about a movie where all of the main characters have to die by the end.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: jingle.boy on December 28, 2017, 12:45:08 PM
There's something interesting satisfying to me about a movie where all of the main characters have to die by the end.

Fix'd.  Thins seem so contrived when all the bad guys die/lose at the end, and most/all the good guys come out no worse than they started.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: MrBoom_shack-a-lack on December 28, 2017, 12:56:40 PM
Haven't followed the thread so i'm not sure what the general opinion is but I enjoyed the movie. The humour felt a bit cheap at times and the story was a bit to much back and forth like someone doing something heroic and suddenly getting cut off, i'm not saying that's a bad thing but I guess i'm not used to that in Star Wars movies.


That shot of Holdo going lightspeed through the dreadnought was awesome.

Luke being a hologram was cool which I wasn't expecting honestly even though it makes sense.

Lightsaber through Snoke...awesome!
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: El Barto on December 28, 2017, 01:02:19 PM
There's something interesting satisfying to me about a movie where all of the main characters have to die by the end.

Fix'd.  Thins seem so contrived when all the bad guys die/lose at the end, and most/all the good guys come out no worse than they started.
Well, R1 was plenty contrived enough anyway. But, some of the characters were perfectly likeable and not ones you'd particularly want to see dead. However, it was the fact that they had to die which made it strangely interesting to me. The core characters were all significant enough that had they survived we'd know about them now. Despite being likeable and showing some growth they're by necessity disposable.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: bosk1 on December 28, 2017, 01:06:00 PM
But how is it "contrived?"  Just because the overall fate for many of the characters was a foregone conclusion doesn't necessarily make it "contrived."  I'm not sure I understand what you guys are saying.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Kattelox on December 28, 2017, 01:08:43 PM
Me personally, I just could not stay interested in Rogue One. Going into a story like that already knowing the plot (they're going to steal the plans for the Death Star and they're disposable characters who are going to die) really killed any desire to stay interested in the characters. There was no emotional weight there for me, basically. No surprises except Vader at the end.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: El Barto on December 28, 2017, 01:50:31 PM
But how is it "contrived?"  Just because the overall fate for many of the characters was a foregone conclusion doesn't necessarily make it "contrived."  I'm not sure I understand what you guys are saying.
I don't think it was contrived because of the predetermined fate of the characters. I think the film itself was, though perhaps amazingly formulaic would be a better description.

Me personally, I just could not stay interested in Rogue One. Going into a story like that already knowing the plot (they're going to steal the plans for the Death Star and they're disposable characters who are going to die) really killed any desire to stay interested in the characters. There was no emotional weight there for me, basically. No surprises except Vader at the end.
Perhaps I'm just dense, but it didn't really dawn on me that everybody had to die until about halfway through the movie, by which point there were a couple of characters I'd grown fond of.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Implode on December 28, 2017, 02:38:38 PM
Just saw TLJ again last night. 70% of the movie is just a miserable slog to get through. But the 30% that's interesting is truly amazing.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: MrBoom_shack-a-lack on December 28, 2017, 04:22:53 PM
Even though it's been said so many times, I still have to mention that after all these years I still get goosebumps when hearing the main theme.  :metal
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: lordxizor on December 28, 2017, 07:26:28 PM
Even though it's been said so many times, I still have to mention that after all these years I still get goosebumps when hearing the main theme.  :metal
Me too. That and the sound of a lightsaber.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: El Barto on December 28, 2017, 09:17:14 PM
Even though it's been said so many times, I still have to mention that after all these years I still get goosebumps when hearing the main theme.  :metal
Me too. That and the sound of a lightsaber.
TIE-fighters. They've got a weird wild animal sound to them. Love hearing them.

As for music the main theme never did much for me, but the various leitmotifs get me all the time. Even the aforementioned opening fanfare when used as a callback.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: contest_sanity on December 28, 2017, 10:43:17 PM
I thought of an interesting parallel with Episode III. Figured I would share so that I would finally start getting updates on this thread. I've seen some people getting upset that Luke even drew his lightsaber on Ben Solo, even if he immediately thought better of actually taking him down. While we might reasonably disagree on whether or not this was "in character" for Luke, I realized this was not the first time we have seen a young Jedi, heavily tempted by the Dark Side, only complete their full turn into evil with the aid of possible Jedi malpractice.

In the case of Ben Solo, Luke drawing his blade (and of course the consequent perception -- even if untrue -- that Luke was in fact trying to kill him). I could not help but think back on Episode III how Anakin wanted to arrest Palpatine and put him on trial, but Mace Windu had devolved into wishing to execute him, a seeming violation of the Jedi code. And therefore, whether it was intended by the writers or not, during the flashback sequences of Luke drawing his light saber over a sleeping Ben Solo, I could hear Mace saying, "He's too dangerous to be left alive..."
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Adami on December 28, 2017, 10:46:02 PM
I thought of an interesting parallel with Episode III. Figured I would share so that I would finally start getting updates on this thread. I've seen some people getting upset that Luke even drew his lightsaber on Ben Solo, even if he immediately thought better of actually taking him down. While we might reasonably disagree on whether or not this was "in character" for Luke, I realized this was not the first time we have seen a young Jedi, heavily tempted by the Dark Side, only complete their full turn into evil with the aid of possible Jedi malpractice.

In the case of Ben Solo, Luke drawing his blade (and of course the consequent perception -- even if untrue -- that Luke was in fact trying to kill him). I could not help but think back on Episode III how Anakin wanted to arrest Palpatine and put him on trial, but Mace Windu had devolved into wishing to execute him, a seeming violation of the Jedi code. And therefore, whether it was intended by the writers or not, during the flashback sequences of Luke drawing his light saber over a sleeping Ben Solo, I could hear Mace saying, "He's too dangerous to be left alive..."

Not sure comparing it to the prequels is helping the argument.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: contest_sanity on December 28, 2017, 11:07:22 PM
^ I wasn't really making an argument, just noting a parallel. Though upon reflection I personally thought it might have been a slight stretch that Luke would really have immediately drawn his light saber so quickly, who really knows? If all of a sudden he had deep suspicions as to Ben's temptation, and was also increasingly paranoid that he had missed it because of his own hubris, maybe to look upon Ben and so strikingly "see" the extent of his darkness: perhaps I can understand drawing the light saber as a reflex.

Hell, maybe I was just in a dark place myself, or perhaps Luke's characterization really was that convincing, but  when Kylo told "his version" of the story the first time, part of me thought that perhaps he was telling the truth. Like maybe Luke really did try and kill him...

Of course, the "truth is somewhere in the middle" version of the third time we saw it makes a lot more sense, and makes me feel a lot better, but for a moment there they had me wondering...

EDIT: but I'm also still liking Runaways, so what do I know, lol
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: BlackInk on December 29, 2017, 12:10:43 AM
For me, Luke drawing his lightsaber makes sense enough. It seems that he was not only Ēsuspicious of Benís temptationsĒ, but from what we heard it seemed more like Luke could see and hear what he would come to do. Suddenly there is an incredibly powerful dark side enemy right in front of you who youíve just witnessed through visions destroy your entire world. I can certainly understand taking the blade out, just in a brief moment of fear and insinct.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Destiny Of Chaos on December 29, 2017, 04:33:33 AM
I thought of an interesting parallel with Episode III. Figured I would share so that I would finally start getting updates on this thread. I've seen some people getting upset that Luke even drew his lightsaber on Ben Solo, even if he immediately thought better of actually taking him down. While we might reasonably disagree on whether or not this was "in character" for Luke, I realized this was not the first time we have seen a young Jedi, heavily tempted by the Dark Side, only complete their full turn into evil with the aid of possible Jedi malpractice.

In the case of Ben Solo, Luke drawing his blade (and of course the consequent perception -- even if untrue -- that Luke was in fact trying to kill him). I could not help but think back on Episode III how Anakin wanted to arrest Palpatine and put him on trial, but Mace Windu had devolved into wishing to execute him, a seeming violation of the Jedi code. And therefore, whether it was intended by the writers or not, during the flashback sequences of Luke drawing his light saber over a sleeping Ben Solo, I could hear Mace saying, "He's too dangerous to be left alive..."


That is an interesting parrellel.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: IDontNotDoThings on December 29, 2017, 05:02:34 AM
I thought of an interesting parallel with Episode III. Figured I would share so that I would finally start getting updates on this thread. I've seen some people getting upset that Luke even drew his lightsaber on Ben Solo, even if he immediately thought better of actually taking him down. While we might reasonably disagree on whether or not this was "in character" for Luke, I realized this was not the first time we have seen a young Jedi, heavily tempted by the Dark Side, only complete their full turn into evil with the aid of possible Jedi malpractice.

In the case of Ben Solo, Luke drawing his blade (and of course the consequent perception -- even if untrue -- that Luke was in fact trying to kill him). I could not help but think back on Episode III how Anakin wanted to arrest Palpatine and put him on trial, but Mace Windu had devolved into wishing to execute him, a seeming violation of the Jedi code. And therefore, whether it was intended by the writers or not, during the flashback sequences of Luke drawing his light saber over a sleeping Ben Solo, I could hear Mace saying, "He's too dangerous to be left alive..."


That is an interesting parrellel.

Maybe that's why Luke took it so personally & abandoned the Jedi ways altogether. Not just the "almost murdering his nephew" thing, but also the idea that he was becoming more like his father Darth Vader (spoilers lol) had probably loomed over his mind for some time, which could factor into why he became so overcome with guilt once he realised what he had done & what it could mean for him as a person.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: jingle.boy on December 29, 2017, 06:32:03 AM
But how is it "contrived?"  Just because the overall fate for many of the characters was a foregone conclusion doesn't necessarily make it "contrived."  I'm not sure I understand what you guys are saying.

I just meant (most) movies in general... bad guys lose; good guys win with no/few casualties.

Me personally, I just could not stay interested in Rogue One. Going into a story like that already knowing the plot (they're going to steal the plans for the Death Star and they're disposable characters who are going to die) really killed any desire to stay interested in the characters. There was no emotional weight there for me, basically. No surprises except Vader at the end.

Don't bother watching Apollo 13 then.

Even though it's been said so many times, I still have to mention that after all these years I still get goosebumps when hearing the main theme.  :metal

Ditto... I just miss the 20th-Century Fox orchestral segue.   :sad:
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: BlackInk on December 29, 2017, 07:08:41 AM
Yeah, knowing the characterís fates doesnít lessen the amount I care. If it did then some real-life based movies would lose their value, or no movies would have any re-watchability.

I dislike Rogue One because I think the characters are just straight up bad, not because I knew theyíd die.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Kattelox on December 29, 2017, 07:28:15 AM
Me personally, I just could not stay interested in Rogue One. Going into a story like that already knowing the plot (they're going to steal the plans for the Death Star and they're disposable characters who are going to die) really killed any desire to stay interested in the characters. There was no emotional weight there for me, basically. No surprises except Vader at the end.

Don't bother watching Apollo 13 then.

Already ahead of you. That's partially why I've still not seen it (the other part being I never had interest in watching it anyway).  :lol

The thing about Rogue One though is that the whole story was something that I don't think necessitated a movie. But that's just my opinion. I honestly don't think any of the Star Wars films are actually great films. The lore, the universe of Star Wars, is amazing - but the films don't do it enough justice in my opinion. I try to reason with myself and understand that the EU came way after the original trilogy, but my first taste of SW was seeing Phantom Menace in theaters when I was 8. I didn't actually see the OT until my late teens.

Also I watched the despecialized version of Empire (again) last night. Apart from Harrison Ford's god awful acting and the lame humor it is easily the best Star Wars, the second half *never* gets boring to me. But I also don't understand why some have said TLJ is the Empire of this trilogy at all. Don't see many similarities.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: El Barto on December 29, 2017, 08:14:37 AM
Me personally, I just could not stay interested in Rogue One. Going into a story like that already knowing the plot (they're going to steal the plans for the Death Star and they're disposable characters who are going to die) really killed any desire to stay interested in the characters. There was no emotional weight there for me, basically. No surprises except Vader at the end.

Don't bother watching Apollo 13 then.

Already ahead of you. That's partially why I've still not seen it (the other part being I never had interest in watching it anyway).  :lol
There are plenty of reasons to watch movies aside from the suspense of the unknown. One of my favorite movies is The Longest Day, but there wasn't a whole lot of suspense there (Spoiler alert--the Allies won WWII). For one thing, I never get tired of witnessing true depictions of great heroism. A13 certainly has its fair share, mostly from the guys back on the ground. It also allowed us to see recreations of various aspects that technology couldn't show at the time, as well as the remarkable contributions of guys most would otherwise never have heard of (how many people know who Sy Leibergot is?).
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Kattelox on December 29, 2017, 08:21:20 AM
Right, there are lots of reasons to watch films. But Apollo 13 has never sounded interesting to me, so I don't plan to watch it, that's it.  :)
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: bosk1 on December 29, 2017, 09:28:42 AM
Well, I really liked R1.  A lot.  I can't say I "loved" the characters.  But for the roles they had to fill, I liked them enough.  The one who seemed glaringly underdeveloped given his role was Saw.  But I still can't separate in my own mind whether I feel that way because the plot really needed him to be more developed and would have been better served by that, or it I am unduly swayed by the fact that having an actor like Forrest Whitaker playing the role alone gives the character so much gravitas that underdevelopment just feels almost criminally wasteful.  I guess I probably suspect it is mostly the former, but definitely influenced a bit by the latter as well.  But, again, I think the characters were mostly very good for what they had to do.

I really liked the juxtaposition of genres where you have the war/suicide assault subgenre coupled with basically a heist/treasure hunt genre.  It's already a fairly rare combination as it is, and is even more novel when set in a sci-fi universe.  And pretty unexpected for the Star Wars universe.  It is a bit jarring and disorienting at the beginning of the film on first viewing to have it jump all over the place.  But I feel that it isn't too hard to keep it in perspective, even if some of the specifics of "where are we, and why are we here again?" get lost the first time around.  I thought it was fun and effective.

There are some things at the end that seemed off and bother me a bit.  But that's just part of the package.  We can basically go through the entire Star Wars saga and pick apart each and every film if we want to.  And, honestly, every franchise that grows beyond a film or two seems to have continuity errors where something doesn't quite match up or rules that are established early on get broken later.  It's just the nature of the beast where you don't have one person or one team sit down in the beginning and write out the entire story (which is a virtual impossibility).  Even Marvel, as painstaking as they have been about building the MCU, has had this problem.  It just is what it is, and I've resigned myself to the fact that it's just meant to be fun and entertaining, and even beyond my own subjective expectations and "wants" as a fan, there are going to be continuity problems and other flaws.  Can't let those get in the way of enjoying something that is just meant to be a bit of frivolous fun.  That doesn't mean the films are above critical analysis.  And it doesn't mean that there aren't big, important themes or deep symbolism that can't be explored.  But the main purpose isn't to reveal some deep human truth.  It's just to give us a fun story.  And I think the franchise has largely succeeded, even if there have been some speed bumps along the way.  Rogue One and The Last Jedi are just two examples to me of that very thing: flawed movies that, notwithstanding their flaws, are really well-executed and fun as a whole.  In fact, I would say that since the move to Disney, all three films we have thus far are among the best in the franchise because, IMO, they have kept the fun factor and feel and nostalgia of the original franchise, while not OVERLY dumbing things down like the PT, not having as much bad acting and direction as the PT, and solving some of the plodding an pacing issues that the OT had.  In so many ways, again despite flaws that I recognize and acknowledge, they are just spot on and satisfying when I let go of expectations (some of which are unreasonable; some of which are not) and just enjoy.

But expectations coupled with the "new toy"/"new car smell" aspect of TLJ had me thinking some interesting thoughts this morning.  I liked TLJ.  I really, really liked it.  But there were some obvious issues as well, which we have discussed.  I'm just wondering how much those issues will overshadow the positive once this whole thing is wrapped up.  I think back to the PT.  When it was announced that Lucas was finally doing it, the excitement was off the charts.  Those of us who had grown up on Star Wars were starved for new content as it was, and the backstory of Anakin becoming Vader had become legend.  We were all dying to see how it would play out on screen.  And the Republic.  And all kinds of Jedi running around doing...jedi stuff!  When TPM came out, the reception was overall pretty positive.  People had no problem overlooking and glossing over the flaws, for the most part, because "Darth Maul!" and "epic lightsaber fight/space battle montage!" and "Galactic Republic!" and "jedi everywhere!" and such.  It had problems.  And people called out the problems and discussed them.  But overall, I feel like the general consensus was "yeah, it had major issues--and don't get me started on Jar-jar; bleh!!!--but it is Star Wars, and it was fun and good, despite any issues it might have had."  It wasn't really until after the PT had concluded that I really started to have issues with this film.  Then came AotC.  People, myself included, had MAJOR issues with this one.  A lot of it was the horrible acting and directing.  But some of it was purely story-driven as well.  The criticism was much more out there from the beginning.  But still, the reaction wasn't overly bad simply because we were all far too enamored with a TON of jedi drawing lightsabers in the arena battle and finally getting to see the start of the actual clone wars.  And Christopher Lee was in it.  Those things distracted us from totally slamming the film (and are still pretty redeeming to this day, actually).  And for those that played the Dark Forces games, the falling ship sequence was actually really cool too.  There was still an air of, "well, it is flawed, sure, but it's Star Wars, and it's still fun and cool, so I'm going to love it anyway."  So, where I'm going with this is:  I am a bit concerned that I find myself saying the similar things about the three Disney Star Wars films to date.  I am a bit concerned that my nostalgia and love of the franchise might be fueling an unspoken need deep within me to defend these movies and overlook their flaws, and that they will actually not stand the test of time and eventually be thought of in a similar light as the PT.  Part of me feels that it really COULD end up playing out like that.  I hope I'm wrong.  And, for what it's worth, I really think I will be wrong on that count.  These latest films DO feel qualitatively more solid than the PT.  They just do.  And going back to the word "contrived" that was used early, the fun in these films feels much less "contrived" to me than it did in the PT films.  I guess only time will tell whether these movies stand up, and how well.  But, again, they just feel more solid to me and feel like they will wind up holding up better over time.  Thoughts?

tl;dnr:  I have no sympathy for you.  Just grow an attention span and read it.  :lol
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: kaos2900 on December 29, 2017, 10:46:53 AM
You said it right when you mentioned that EVERY Star Wars film and show (Clone Wars and Rebels) are flawed. There are moments of brilliance, meh, and eye rolling scenes that make you want to stab your eyes out. That all being said I FREAKING LOVE STAR WARS! I love the characters, the lore, and the universe. I like all the shows and movies, some more than others obviously. I still think that TLJ is great and most people I know think the same. I don't get the outrage around the film. People complained about TFA being too similar to ANH and then TLJ comes out taking a ton of risks, just like Empire if you think about it, and people are pissed because they didn't get the answers they were expecting. I've come to the conclusion that there is a subset of Star Wars fans comprised mainly of people who grew up with the original trilogy who will not like any thing post ROTJ. I'll be the first to admit that nothing in Star Wars is perfect but I'll be shocked if something comes out that I end up hating. People are too damn critical now a days. Look at the response to The Hobbit films. Not perfect, but not the atrocity that the internet makes it out to be.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: bosk1 on December 29, 2017, 11:08:20 AM
I still think that TLJ is great and most people I know think the same. I don't get the outrage around the film. People complained about TFA being too similar to ANH and then TLJ comes out taking a ton of risks, just like Empire if you think about it, and people are pissed because they didn't get the answers they were expecting.

Yeah, I hear you.  I think you can largely lump most people who didn't like it into two categories (although there are plenty who fall into both categories, and plenty of others who had different issues):  (1) Those that are mad because they didn't get answers and/or didn't get answers they were expecting; and (2) Those that felt the underlying premise of the "slow chase" was just silly and that the other major plot point, the side question to Canto Bight, didn't work.  As to the former, yeah, that's just being overly critical.  If you didn't like not getting answers, fine.  But that isn't the film's fault--it's just that you don't happen to like the choice they made.  That's on you.  As to the second, I get it.  I'm okay with it.  But ultimately, both premises (or, probably more accurately, the way in which they were executed) are open to criticism.  Again, I'm ultimately okay with what they did, but both could have been done much, much better, IMO.  And I think a well-reasoned argument that the execution of ideas like that fell short is always valid, even if I might personally disagree with that assessment.

You said it right when you mentioned that EVERY Star Wars film and show (Clone Wars and Rebels) are flawed. There are moments of brilliance, meh, and eye rolling scenes that make you want to stab your eyes out. That all being said I FREAKING LOVE STAR WARS! I love the characters, the lore, and the universe. I like all the shows and movies, some more than others obviously.

Yeah, I would describe myself similarly.  But I had an interesting and, I guess, somewhat unconventional relationship with Star Wars.  As a 7-year-old, I wasn't reall aware of the lead-up to the release of the first one.  My uncle worked at a drive-in theater in town, and began hyping it, which got me excited.  We went and saw it, and I thought it was fun.  But the pacing was an issue, even back then.  It didn't manage to hold a 7-year-old's attention during the slower paced parts, even with their stunning visuals.  But I liked it.  But that following entire school year, it was hyped to the hilt by other kids, and by the release of toys and other merch, to the point where I came to love it through all of that rather than on the film's own merits.  I spend endless hours drawing space battles, playing with all the toys I got for Christmas that year and the following year, and building other scenes out of legos.  For whatever reason, while I still liked it, my excitement had died down a bit by the release of Empire, and I somehow managed to not see that one in the theater.  I wouldn't see it until sometime far later when it was out on video.  And I went through a similar cycle of initially growing to love it more through the extra stuff than through the film itself.  But by the time ROTJ came out, I had seen the two previous films many times and was firmly a fan on the merits themselves.  But looking back, it is an interesting and strange journey to have arrived there.

Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Kattelox on December 29, 2017, 01:48:38 PM
 Just seems like Rey and Kylo had massive plot armor for that scene in Snoke's chamber. Dude can track people at light speed (new ability apparently never seen before...), and bridge people's minds across the galaxy (also new ability), but... couldn't sense his own apprentice moving the lightsaber right next to him? C'mon. That's my biggest problem with the films, they're fun, but these really pivotal moments (in every one of them) don't make much sense when you think about it, after all these are seriously powerful and clever people we're discussing. And I wish they did because the universe is so rich and fascinating and these moments/characters deserve better!
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: bosk1 on December 29, 2017, 02:12:13 PM
I liked your original post before you edited it better.  ;)  And what I meant by "that isn't the film's fault" has to do with just not being satisfied by not getting answers to questions like "who is Snoke?" and "who are Rey's parents?"  Not giving answers wasn't an "oops, we missed that," which would imply fault.  It was an intentional creative decision to address those with different forms of "it doesn't matter."  So for fans who don't like the answers/non-answers they were given, it isn't an issue of "fault."  It isn't an issue of the movie having "objective" flaws.  It is an issue of the film doing something a viewer subjectively feels they disagree with.  And that's fine.  If someone doesn't like it or isn't satisfied with it, cool.  But that is an issue of taste, not an issue of bad film making that would somehow justify an online petition to have the film removed from canon.  :lol

Your beef is different, so my post wasn't really addressing you.  But I still think it falls more into the category of "this didn't work for me, and I think it could have been done better."  But to address couple of your points, for what it's worth:

Dude can track people at light speed (new ability apparently never seen before...)
Well, no.  That isn't his ability.  It isn't something he does with the force.  It's a technological development.  They (the First Order) developed the technology to track ships at light speed, and there were devices on the ships that could do that.

...and bridge people's minds across the galaxy (also new ability)

Yes. 

...but... couldn't sense his own apprentice moving the lightsaber right next to him? C'mon.

Well, okay...again, you're entitled to feel that that was too much of a stretch and it didn't work for you.  I get it.  There were definitely things in the film that had that feel for me as well.  But (1) see below; and (2) let me explain why, at least for me, this isn't one of those things that bothered me:  We still don't know exactly how the force, or a lot of specific force abilities work.  Kylo could get inside people's minds as well.  But we don't know what that looks like.  We don't know how specifically he can see things.  Same with Snoke, even though he is (was) more powerful and experienced.  But apparently, I think we are supposed to infer that there are degrees.  Either he can't see certain specifics, or, in his arrogance, he chose not to look too deeply and misinterpreted what he was seeing.  I think it's a bit of both.  He "saw" what Kylo was doing in terms of the steps Kylo was taking.  Kylo was going to raise his saber.  He was going to strike down one strong in the force.  He was going to ignite his saber.  But he wasn't seeing clearly.  Could he have?  I think we are meant to think that, probably, yes, he could have.  But in his hubris, he didn't.  He thought he had it figured out, so he didn't strive to see clearly, and that was also probably influenced by Kylo (and possibly Rey as well) obscuring his vision so that he would be tricked.  In other words, he mentally let his guard down because he arrogantly thought he had everything and everybody figured out, and it cost him.  I buy that.  It fits the theme of the film, and it feels plausible within the boundaries of what was revealed to us about how things work.  If you feel otherwise, that's cool.  Just sharing why it works for me.

As to the "see below" portion, I want to come back to this:
That's my biggest problem with the films, they're fun, but these really pivotal moments (in every one of them) don't make much sense when you think about it, after all these are seriously powerful and clever people we're discussing. And I wish they did because the universe is so rich and fascinating and these moments/characters deserve better!

Okay, but I think you are perhaps elevating the films too much, which my longer post above kind of addresses.  I think we have a tendency to revere some things too much, and in our culture, Star Wars is one of those things that we have put up on a pedestal and look at through rose colored glasses.  I just think it is easier to enjoy it for seeing it for what it is:  a series of fun stories that, yes, have many flaws and HAVE ALWAYS had many flaws, but are still fun nonetheless if we stop holding them to such high standards that even the originals don't really meet.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Kattelox on December 29, 2017, 02:40:34 PM
See, that's my thing. I said what I said because I'm afraid that they really do not have any idea what to do with Snoke and don't have a backstory for him, and even if they go into it in episode 9, I fear that will take away time from other important things they have to cover. It's apprehension. I do think that is the first film's fault because it set Snoke up as this fearsome baddie.

Your beef is different, so my post wasn't really addressing you.  But I still think it falls more into the category of "this didn't work for me, and I think it could have been done better."  But to address couple of your points, for what it's worth:

Kinda, yeah :)

Dude can track people at light speed (new ability apparently never seen before...)
Well, no.  That isn't his ability.  It isn't something he does with the force.  It's a technological development.  They (the First Order) developed the technology to track ships at light speed, and there were devices on the ships that could do that.

Honest question, was it described in film as technology? If so I missed it. I just remember them saying something along the lines of, "He tracked us!" and I attributed it to Snoke since he is so powerful, and was bridging Rey's and Kylo's minds (although I'm not sure if that was revealed before or after the light speed tracking - after, right?).

...but... couldn't sense his own apprentice moving the lightsaber right next to him? C'mon.

Well, okay...again, you're entitled to feel that that was too much of a stretch and it didn't work for you.  I get it.  There were definitely things in the film that had that feel for me as well.  But (1) see below; and (2) let me explain why, at least for me, this isn't one of those things that bothered me:  We still don't know exactly how the force, or a lot of specific force abilities work.  Kylo could get inside people's minds as well.  But we don't know what that looks like.  We don't know how specifically he can see things.  Same with Snoke, even though he is (was) more powerful and experienced.  But apparently, I think we are supposed to infer that there are degrees.  Either he can't see certain specifics, or, in his arrogance, he chose not to look too deeply and misinterpreted what he was seeing.  I think it's a bit of both.  He "saw" what Kylo was doing in terms of the steps Kylo was taking.  Kylo was going to raise his saber.  He was going to strike down one strong in the force.  He was going to ignite his saber.  But he wasn't seeing clearly.  Could he have?  I think we are meant to think that, probably, yes, he could have.  But in his hubris, he didn't.  He thought he had it figured out, so he didn't strive to see clearly, and that was also probably influenced by Kylo (and possibly Rey as well) obscuring his vision so that he would be tricked.  In other words, he mentally let his guard down because he arrogantly thought he had everything and everybody figured out, and it cost him.  I buy that.  It fits the theme of the film, and it feels plausible within the boundaries of what was revealed to us about how things work.  If you feel otherwise, that's cool.  Just sharing why it works for me.

I do see why that makes sense to some people, but to me... it just doesn't feel natural. It feels contrived, and unbelievable. Snoke shows he can do incredible things, and regardless of the piece of work being discussed, I absolutely cannot stand cheap deaths like that. It is a crap way to get rid of a powerful character. Game of Thrones gets rid of powerful characters and it feels satisfying, there is an emotional reaction. Star Wars... it's like amateur hour in comparison. I don't feel the weight of Snoke being cut down by Kylo because I don't know anything about Snoke, he's just another big evil dude with a title to me.

As to the "see below" portion, I want to come back to this:
That's my biggest problem with the films, they're fun, but these really pivotal moments (in every one of them) don't make much sense when you think about it, after all these are seriously powerful and clever people we're discussing. And I wish they did because the universe is so rich and fascinating and these moments/characters deserve better!

Okay, but I think you are perhaps elevating the films too much, which my longer post above kind of addresses.  I think we have a tendency to revere some things too much, and in our culture, Star Wars is one of those things that we have put up on a pedestal and look at through rose colored glasses.  I just think it is easier to enjoy it for seeing it for what it is:  a series of fun stories that, yes, have many flaws and HAVE ALWAYS had many flaws, but are still fun nonetheless if we stop holding them to such high standards that even the originals don't really meet.

My perception of Star Wars is different from yours, I believe. I was 8 when TPM came out. At that time, I was going to the hospital a lot, and there was this room with all sorts of Star Wars toys in it. Hundreds of action figures, posters, cereal boxes, a gigantic R2D2 and C3PO, in this tiny little hospital room. All original trilogy. I grew up reading and listening to people talk about how amazing the characters are, how deep the messages are, how important Star Wars is. So, my whole life, I have always had people putting Star Wars on this pedestal of how rich and fantastic the series is. If I turn off my brain and watch them as fun movies, yeah, that's great. But we have what, 10 films and a whole extended universe to look at. When these filmmakers are bringing this universe to life, I feel like they do a fantastic job on one hand, but on the other, I don't believe any of them do it enough justice to justify all the rabid praise the franchise gets. And I keep expecting someone to come out and really blow my mind. That's why I would love to see this series given a Game of Thrones TV-series treatment and really give these characters the development they deserve instead of making 2.5 hour films where they have to cram in as much as possible. The universe is too rich to be limited to such a small amount of time for even part of a big story.

Like, I dunno. When I finally watched the OT as a teenager I was almost offended by how horrible they were (to me, and at the time). Today I still cringe at the humor and Ford's acting. It just doesn't match this 'legendary' praise the fans give them. Fun movies, yes, but always failing to live up to the universe's potential. But, just so I'm clear, I totally understand your views and what you're saying - I'm just expressing my... disappointment, I suppose, with this amazing franchise. I honestly, truly believe there is untapped potential and I want to see them run with it someday.

Sorry that was so long. I'll stop derailing if this is taking away from the thread.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: bosk1 on December 29, 2017, 03:20:57 PM
Not a derailment at all.

Dude can track people at light speed (new ability apparently never seen before...)
Well, no.  That isn't his ability.  It isn't something he does with the force.  It's a technological development.  They (the First Order) developed the technology to track ships at light speed, and there were devices on the ships that could do that.

Honest question, was it described in film as technology? If so I missed it. I just remember them saying something along the lines of, "He tracked us!" and I attributed it to Snoke since he is so powerful, and was bridging Rey's and Kylo's minds (although I'm not sure if that was revealed before or after the light speed tracking - after, right?).

Yeah, Rose described it as tech.  And that was literally the whole point of their excursion to Canto Bight and then their infiltration of Snoke's ship.  They were trying to find the dude who could sneak them onto the ship so they could disable the tech, not to confront Snoke.  And they also explained that they only then had a short window for the fleet to escape after doing so, because once they detected that they were no longer tracking the fleet because it had been disabled, the other ships in Snoke's contingent could turn on their trackers that they were also likely equipped with.  They were pretty obvious that it was a technology, not a force ability.  And I'm not knocking you for missing it--I missed some obvious things in my first viewing as well--we all do.  I'm only saying it was "obvious" to point out that I'm not guessing on the issue and that it was actually spelled out.   

And on this note:
As to the "see below" portion, I want to come back to this:
That's my biggest problem with the films, they're fun, but these really pivotal moments (in every one of them) don't make much sense when you think about it, after all these are seriously powerful and clever people we're discussing. And I wish they did because the universe is so rich and fascinating and these moments/characters deserve better!

Okay, but I think you are perhaps elevating the films too much, which my longer post above kind of addresses.  I think we have a tendency to revere some things too much, and in our culture, Star Wars is one of those things that we have put up on a pedestal and look at through rose colored glasses.  I just think it is easier to enjoy it for seeing it for what it is:  a series of fun stories that, yes, have many flaws and HAVE ALWAYS had many flaws, but are still fun nonetheless if we stop holding them to such high standards that even the originals don't really meet.

My perception of Star Wars is different from yours, I believe. I was 8 when TPM came out. ...  So, my whole life, I have always had people putting Star Wars on this pedestal of how rich and fantastic the series is. ...  Like, I dunno. When I finally watched the OT as a teenager I was almost offended by how horrible they were (to me, and at the time).

But see, you pretty much acknowledge that the fact that they are put on a pedestal is somewhat unjustified, right?  The bolded part especially, where you indicate that when you objectively watched the OT, you weren't impressed--quite the opposite.  Doesn't that suggest that, really, when people idolize the films, they've kind of just left their objectivity behind and made the SW universe into something it isn't?  Many in my generation do it simply because of the nostalgia factor.  But many in your generation do it because you've been told to by those who are influenced by the nostalgia factor.  :lol  :dunno:  I like where you say, "I don't believe any of them do it enough justice to justify all the rabid praise the franchise gets. And I keep expecting someone to come out and really blow my mind."  I think that nails it.  The rabid praise isn't justified.  But the thing is, that's okay.  It doesn't have to be black and white of either "this is AMAZING on every level!" or if it falls short of that, "this is an abject failure."  It can be somewhere in the middle, can't it? 

But it's all good.  At the end of the day, I'm just offering my own thoughts, and you're just offering yours.  For me, I can just suspend expectations and enjoy it as some frivolous and flawed fun, and doing so helps me not get bent out of shape when things don't play out on screen the way I want them to.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Kattelox on December 29, 2017, 05:27:05 PM
Yeah, Rose described it as tech.  And that was literally the whole point of their excursion to Canto Bight and then their infiltration of Snoke's ship.  They were trying to find the dude who could sneak them onto the ship so they could disable the tech, not to confront Snoke.  And they also explained that they only then had a short window for the fleet to escape after doing so, because once they detected that they were no longer tracking the fleet because it had been disabled, the other ships in Snoke's contingent could turn on their trackers that they were also likely equipped with.  They were pretty obvious that it was a technology, not a force ability.  And I'm not knocking you for missing it--I missed some obvious things in my first viewing as well--we all do.  I'm only saying it was "obvious" to point out that I'm not guessing on the issue and that it was actually spelled out.

Thanks for explaining that - I didn't pick up on that the first time, or I forgot after viewing, whichever. That makes more sense.

But see, you pretty much acknowledge that the fact that they are put on a pedestal is somewhat unjustified, right?  The bolded part especially, where you indicate that when you objectively watched the OT, you weren't impressed--quite the opposite.  Doesn't that suggest that, really, when people idolize the films, they've kind of just left their objectivity behind and made the SW universe into something it isn't?  Many in my generation do it simply because of the nostalgia factor.  But many in your generation do it because you've been told to by those who are influenced by the nostalgia factor.  :lol  :dunno:  I like where you say, "I don't believe any of them do it enough justice to justify all the rabid praise the franchise gets. And I keep expecting someone to come out and really blow my mind."  I think that nails it.  The rabid praise isn't justified.  But the thing is, that's okay.  It doesn't have to be black and white of either "this is AMAZING on every level!" or if it falls short of that, "this is an abject failure."  It can be somewhere in the middle, can't it?

That's a great point, and you're totally right. It's probably just easier for me to gripe about the faults I find in them because they've been put on a pedestal unjustly my whole life. But it's probably a generational thing, since like you said, nostalgia, and I don't have that, and you're right, those older than myself have always raved about it, so what was I to expect? ;) Having said all that though there are so many great things about the films that I feel I've been a bit unfair to them. I should try to view the OT in the context of 1970s filmmaking.

Now tell me why Obi-Wan's force ghost didn't also show up in TLJ.  :biggrin:
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: BlackInk on December 30, 2017, 02:44:30 AM
I do think that is the first film's fault because it set Snoke up as this fearsome baddie.

Yeah, this is sort of where I come down on this. I like TFA a lot, but TLJ sort of undermines the things that the first one tried to set up. On it's own, Snoke just dying isn't that bad, but just the fact that he exists in TFA and has the power he has implied that he was important. I don't have a problem with him dying, I have a problem with it feeling so unceremoneous and ultimately insignificant. Now in retrospect it just feels like our time has been wasted any time Snoke was on screen. He could have died there in that room, but if we knew more about him before that, and if they had built to that moment more, it would have felt more satisfying. But now it just feels like they went "HAHA SUBVERSION, BET YA DIDN'T SEE THAT COMING". To keep the Game of Thrones examples going, the Red Wedding was a huge surprise, but looking back, it had all been building towards it for a long time.

Damn I have so much to say about this movie that I don't say becuase it will be too much. But despite what it might sound like, I do enjoy it. There is some awesome stuff in there too. But fuck Canto Bight.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Cool Chris on December 30, 2017, 05:43:06 PM
Just got back from the film. Too lazy to read through 8 pages. I liked it a lot. I don't recall feeling this positive a few hours after seeing TFA, and honestly can't remember much from that film at this point beyond the awesomeness of seeing Harrison Ford back in the Han Solo outfit. It feels like a distant memory and a JJ Abrams "yay I get to make a SW movie finally!" TLJ felt too long, but I was never bored. Don't know how this one will endure in my mind, but it's mostly positive now.

Should have added... my my are those some dull, uninspired antagonists. Would have been nice to see Capt Sneers-a-lot do something other than scream "FIRE AT WILL!!!!!!" at a subordinate who probably realizes his job is to fire at will.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: faizoff on January 01, 2018, 09:22:46 AM
Watched it last night for the second time. Good to watch in a near empty theater while everyone outside is celebrating new years.

After a second viewing, I loved this movie even more. There are things that I wished were done differently/better but all in all still an excellent watch which makes me want to go and watch it again.

Although the light speed jump by the cruiser is an amazing intense scene, I just wished they showed the Rose-Finn fallout a little more convincingly. I mean they're almost about to be executed and are surrounded by whole battalions of storm troopers and Captain Phasma, next thing you know no one but the two of them are there. That and the Rose saving Finn scene really could've been done or executed better personally.

Though when I think about it now, to me the whole side adventure of those two was probably written for them to specifically do something with the plot while we see the Rey-Luke story play out. The arc with Rey, Kylo, Luke and the island felt like it flowed a lot better and felt a lot less forced than Rose-Finn. I was ok on first viewing with Rose and Finn pairing up but I think now I don't see their chemistry work that well. I much prefer the pairing of Rey and Finn in the first movie.

I might check it out one more time hopefully in an Imax non 3D screen if I can find one.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: kaos2900 on January 02, 2018, 06:46:35 AM
I also had my second viewing this weekend. A couple of theories changed.

1. I think Snoke knew Kylo was going to kill him. The whole Sith mantra is built around the apprentice destroying the master at some point. And while Snoke seemed powerful he looked like he was close to kicking the bucket.
2. I think Kylo was telling the truth about Rey's parent, BUT I think he was wrong. He said he saw them and I think Snoke put that vision in his head to help get Rey on his ship.

I actually enjoyed the Canto Blight section more. It was just fun, maybe out of place in the film but still enjoyable. Felt like an episode from Clone Wars.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: cramx3 on January 02, 2018, 08:34:18 AM
Yeah, knowing the characterís fates doesnít lessen the amount I care. If it did then some real-life based movies would lose their value, or no movies would have any re-watchability.

I dislike Rogue One because I think the characters are just straight up bad, not because I knew theyíd die.

This, exactly for me.  THe characters I found little interest in, I don't think the movie did much to make me care for them, so when they all died as expected (knowing this didn't ruin the movie, but it didn't help), I just shrugged and felt "Finally it happened" and didn't have any emotional attachment.  So that's the main reason why I felt the movie wasn't good.  Otherwise, from an action standpoint, it was fine.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: gmillerdrake on January 02, 2018, 10:24:50 AM
1. I think Snoke knew Kylo was going to kill him. The whole Sith mantra is built around the apprentice destroying the master at some point. And while Snoke seemed powerful he looked like he was close to kicking the bucket.

I left my second viewing thinking the same thing. Especially since I paid close attention to Snoke's dialogue in that scene and at first watch it appears he's narrating to describe Ren killing Rey....but IMO he's knowingly narrating his own death...particularly him saying "I know his every thought"...."I cannot be betrayed"...."he now turns the saber to strike down his TRUE enemy"..... I think it's along the lines of Obi Wan telling Vadar if you strike me down I become more powerful than you can imagine.....only from the 'dark side' aspect this time.

Snoke's body looks like it's been pieced together before anyway....even still in a bit of decay....so...I wouldn't be surprised to see that character again although I doubt they'd do that.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Kattelox on January 02, 2018, 10:34:52 AM
That's an interesting theory but the look of shock on Snoke's face makes it hard for me to believe that he knew Kylo was going to do that. Snoke's expression to me read like 'oh I done fucked up' more than 'good, good, let the hate fill you' - but I admit I could be wrong  :)
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: gmillerdrake on January 02, 2018, 10:48:38 AM
That's an interesting theory but the look of shock on Snoke's face makes it hard for me to believe that he knew Kylo was going to do that. Snoke's expression to me read like 'oh I done fucked up' more than 'good, good, let the hate fill you' - but I admit I could be wrong  :)

I'm sure that it's a LONg shot theory....it was just interesting the second watch how Snoke's dialogue spoke more to Ren's relationship to Snoke than Rey, especially the 'true' enemy line. It'd be a way for them to rebound from the rather abrupt ending to a character we all assumed would have this detailed backstory though, if he were to show up again. But I think the safe bet is he's dead and we won't see him again. 
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: lordxizor on January 02, 2018, 12:54:37 PM
I don't think Snoke is necessary at all at this point. I hope he stays dead.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: gmillerdrake on January 02, 2018, 01:02:21 PM
I don't think Snoke is necessary at all at this point. I hope he stays dead.

I don't see how they could bring him back without having to spend a considerable amount of time explaining it all.

I imagine in order to deal with Carrie Fishers death....there will be a considerable time jump (3..4..5? yrs) to where Ren is even more powerful and feared.....and Rey is equally powerful as a now Jedi. They wouldn't 'need' Snoke any longer.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: BlackInk on January 03, 2018, 01:37:59 AM
My main reason for not completely dismissing that Snoke is still in play is that at the end of the movie Rey and Kylo are connected again. Admitedly, itís never specified if Snoke actively connected them on each occasion or if he just established the connection and then stepped back. But thatís why Iím having some difficulties just accepting his death.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: kaos2900 on January 03, 2018, 07:05:10 AM
Personally I would love if they do something with Snoke in the final film. Maybe make him a clone of the Emperor. I've read a cool fan theory that Rey was a clone of Luke's taken from his had found on Bespin. Maybe another Snoke shows up and Kylo not only has to contend with a threat from Rey but a threat from another dark sider. Maybe there is another force out there orchestrating/profiting from the conflict in the galaxy. There are so many different directions JJ could take the next movie I'm already ridiculously excited. Only 717 more days!
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: BlobVanDam on January 03, 2018, 07:08:35 AM
That sounds like some EU-level crap right there. :lol No thanks.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Logain Ablar on January 03, 2018, 07:22:15 AM
(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/02/6c/46/026c460f2021f1c71f550acb5b6544d8.jpg)

 :lol

I wouldn't be keen to see any more of Snoke. Leave him be and work on developing the existing characters further.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Implode on January 03, 2018, 09:19:44 AM
I think not explaining Snoke was kind of a direct little middle finger to all the theorists out there and everyone still thinking there's some secret Snoke plot is giving the writers a bit too much credit. He's done and forgotten. Maybe he'll be in a flashback, but I'll be amazed if they do anything meaningful with him in the next movie.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: bosk1 on January 03, 2018, 09:36:09 AM
I hadn't really thought about him orchestrating his own death or anything like that, but it's not a bad theory.  While I'm still leaning toward him being gone, I don't think a theory like that is too farfetched, and I wouldn't be that surprised if it played out that way if done well.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: gmillerdrake on January 03, 2018, 09:53:49 AM
I hadn't really thought about him orchestrating his own death or anything like that, but it's not a bad theory.  While I'm still leaning toward him being gone, I don't think a theory like that is too farfetched, and I wouldn't be that surprised if it played out that way if done well.

After my second viewing I had myself convinced he did just that. Even the way Snoke berates Ren about his mask and how much he's failed seems like he's just pushing him to do it.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: bosk1 on January 03, 2018, 10:07:51 AM
I hadn't really thought about him orchestrating his own death or anything like that, but it's not a bad theory.  While I'm still leaning toward him being gone, I don't think a theory like that is too farfetched, and I wouldn't be that surprised if it played out that way if done well.

After my second viewing I had myself convinced he did just that. Even the way Snoke berates Ren about his mask and how much he's failed seems like he's just pushing him to do it.

Yeah, that all makes sense.  And if that is the case, I could see it from a couple of different perspectives.  He sees both Kylo and Rey as being VERY powerful, and perhaps sees the "threat" of a more general awakening where other powerful force users are out there as well.  Along these lines, his "and the light rises to meet it" comment may be more generally prophetic.  It may be that he needed to "die" and be reborn in order to, essentially "level up" himself.  It may also be that he needed to push Kylo to take some drastic act, like "killing" his master, for Kylo to take the next step.  Or he may simply have seen that Kylo was too divided in himself to be useful, and so he forced the issue (no pun intended).  I'm not discounting at all that something like that could play out in the next installment.  And it could set Snoke up as the perpetual baddie indefinitely, if they chose to go that route.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Polarbear on January 03, 2018, 01:04:22 PM
I think the biggest hint that Snoke may not be dead after all, is the fact that the force link still exists between Rey and Ren in the end. Wouldn't it disappear, if he's dead. Maybe he is using the force link as a backup plan, to somehow sustain himself in the link between Rey and Ren after his death?

Anyway that is just me spitballing. I'm perfectly fine if he doesn't return. He served his purpose..
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: gmillerdrake on January 03, 2018, 01:32:32 PM
I think the biggest hint that Snoke may not be dead after all, is the fact that the force link still exists between Rey and Ren in the end. Wouldn't it disappear, if he's dead. Maybe he is using the force link as a backup plan, to somehow sustain himself in the link between Rey and Ren after his death?

Anyway that is just me spitballing. I'm perfectly fine if he doesn't return. He served his purpose..

I can't get past his extremely disfigured and what still looks to be actively decaying body as well? As if, he's long been technically dead and he's really just a Force Ghost going all 'Weekend at Bernies' with that body already anyway?
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: jammindude on January 03, 2018, 03:54:34 PM
 Just an idea I had half the top of my head that has absolutely no basis in anything at all....

 What if Snoke WAS the dark side? The living embodiment of the dark side of the force that finds a new host every time on the old host dies. That is why the cycle must continue.  The apprentice inherits the fullness of the dark side upon killing his master. Everyone else up til now has just been an imitation...the sith just a training ground...and weíre only just now being introduced to the source.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Phoenix87x on January 03, 2018, 06:11:15 PM
I want Episode IX to start out with Rey waking up, still on ahch to, and she hears the shower running. When she opens up the door, Luke is standing there alive and is like "ready to go take on Snoke and Kylo together?"  Dallas style baby  :biggrin:
 

(https://i.makeagif.com/media/6-14-2016/-F0F_p.gif)
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Architeuthis on January 04, 2018, 01:41:52 AM
So I just saw the movie for the first time tonight, and it was Awesome!!! My favorite since Return of the Jedi, a few little quirks but that's ok. I'll post a more detailed review later, but as for now,, REST, rest I need!
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: TheLordOfTheStrings on January 04, 2018, 03:57:30 AM
I thought it was 70% garbage and 30% the greatest star wars movie ever made. So it pretty much evened out to "pretty good" for me.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Architeuthis on January 04, 2018, 02:41:21 PM
My only minor complaints,  MILK,, Casino,, and the ending with Luke but wasn't terrible. At least he went on in a blaze of glory unlike Han Solo. The Han Solo we know wouldn't have fallen for that trick like he did in The Force Awakens.
 The Last Jedi was a great experience in the theater, lots of action and cool space scenes. I just don't know how the people on those big ships survive after coming to a sudden stop out of hyper-space, lol!
The lack of physics are ok because movies like this are supposed to be fun.
There are alot of Empre Strikes back similarities. The resistance taking refuge on a strange planet in a mountain with imperial walkers showing up. Ren trying get Rey to join forces with him to rule the galaxy like Vader did With Luke. Rey getting training in a remote area, kind of like Luke did with Yoda. The resistance fleeing from The first order in a big spaceship Chase with no Death Star like battle station in the picture.
I also wonder if Benicio's character is almost like another version of Lando, he didn't have a choice because he was caught in a catch 22 but redeems himself later?
I liked the length of the movie, I didn't want it to end and it didn't disappoint. The artwork in this movie is fantastic, so much going on I need to see it again..
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: gmillerdrake on January 04, 2018, 04:00:01 PM
The Han Solo we know wouldn't have fallen for that trick like he did in The Force Awakens.

He didn't fall for anything. He knew his son was going to kill him. Watch every interaction between he an Leah when they talk about their son and Leah is insisting that 'he's still good' and for Han to 'bring him home'. His face says it all. He knows it's a done deal that Kylo is going to kill him. He even pauses a moment prior to calling Ben's name out and walking out onto that walkway. The ONLY reason he did so was because of his love for Leah....not because he loved his son.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: TheOutlawXanadu on January 04, 2018, 04:32:31 PM
I think not explaining Snoke was kind of a direct little middle finger to all the theorists out there and everyone still thinking there's some secret Snoke plot is giving the writers a bit too much credit. He's done and forgotten. Maybe he'll be in a flashback, but I'll be amazed if they do anything meaningful with him in the next movie.

I've listened to a couple of interviews with Rian Johnson where he discusses spoilers in the film. It's clear that, even if you vehemently disagree with what he did, he didn't make any choices with malicious intent. He carefully thought everything through and did what he genuinely felt was best for the franchise.

(Not saying that you thought those things or anything. It was more of a general comment that I thought might be of interest. Look up Slash Film Rian Johnson on YouTube if interested.)
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: lordxizor on January 05, 2018, 06:05:55 AM
The ONLY reason he did so was because of his love for Leah....not because he loved his son.
See I interpreted it as love for Ben which made him have to give it one last shot to try and save him. I agree he knew he would likely be killed, but being a father he had to try and save his son. His love for Leia certainly helped push him to do what he did.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: jingle.boy on January 05, 2018, 06:10:28 AM
The ONLY reason he did so was because of his love for Leah....not because he loved his son.
See I interpreted it as love for Ben which made him have to give it one last shot to try and save him. I agree he knew he would likely be killed, but being a father he had to try and save his son. His love for Leia certainly helped push him to do what he did.

Bingo.  Leah convinced him there was a small chance, so Han had to try.  Any (good) father would do this.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: gmillerdrake on January 05, 2018, 06:27:54 AM
The ONLY reason he did so was because of his love for Leah....not because he loved his son.
See I interpreted it as love for Ben which made him have to give it one last shot to try and save him. I agree he knew he would likely be killed, but being a father he had to try and save his son. His love for Leia certainly helped push him to do what he did.

Bingo.  Leah convinced him there was a small chance, so Han had to try.  Any (good) father would do this.

It most likely was a mixture of both, but he knew he was gonna he killed by him. Hans expressions in each of the three instances he and Leah spoke about it said it all. Which is why I donít think he was tricked or fell for anything.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: BlackInk on January 05, 2018, 06:48:36 AM
Can we just establish once and for all that her name is íLeiaí?
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: bosk1 on January 05, 2018, 07:12:50 AM
1.  He wasn't "tricked"
2.  It's "Leia"
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Phoenix87x on January 05, 2018, 08:12:19 AM
So, for Snoke to connect rey's mind to Kylo's, would he need to know where she is or at least sense her presence in some location? Which in that case he knows where she and luke are at, so they could just go there?
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: TheOutlawXanadu on January 05, 2018, 08:20:38 AM
On a semi-related note: During my second viewing of the film, I noticed that Kylo says, "You're not doing this. The effort alone would kill you" the first time he and Rey connect. Later in the film, the effort does indeed kill Luke when he projects himself. I feel like TLJ has a lot of little nuggets like that, which is cool.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: bosk1 on January 05, 2018, 08:24:52 AM
So, for Snoke to connect rey's mind to Kylo's, would he need to know where she is or at least sense her presence in some location? Which in that case he knows where she and luke are at, so they could just go there?
I doubt it.  But I think you're probably overthinking it.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: BlackInk on January 05, 2018, 08:40:47 AM
On a semi-related note: During my second viewing of the film, I noticed that Kylo says, "You're not doing this. The effort alone would kill you" the first time he and Rey connect. Later in the film, the effort does indeed kill Luke when he projects himself. I feel like TLJ has a lot of little nuggets like that, which is cool.

Yeah that was clearly set up for the finale.

Additionally, during one of the scenes with Snoke, donít remember which one, the score most definetely plays the emperorís theme.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Architeuthis on January 05, 2018, 01:12:04 PM
The ONLY reason he did so was because of his love for Leah....not because he loved his son.
See I interpreted it as love for Ben which made him have to give it one last shot to try and save him. I agree he knew he would likely be killed, but being a father he had to try and save his son. His love for Leia certainly helped push him to do what he did.

Bingo.  Leah convinced him there was a small chance, so Han had to try.  Any (good) father would do this.
I still think it was a lame way for Solo to go out. He may have been trying to be a good father, but c'mon man, he sacrifices his life just to see if maybe Ren would turn back to Ben. Instead he gets killed by an ungrateful punk who is bent on ruling the galaxy. They just found a lame way to kill off Solo so Harrison Ford could go work on his stupid Blade Runner movie. I would have MUCH rather have him in these three installments of Star Wars. He chose POORLY!
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Implode on January 05, 2018, 03:11:26 PM
On a semi-related note: During my second viewing of the film, I noticed that Kylo says, "You're not doing this. The effort alone would kill you" the first time he and Rey connect. Later in the film, the effort does indeed kill Luke when he projects himself. I feel like TLJ has a lot of little nuggets like that, which is cool.

Yeah that was clearly set up for the finale.

Man I didn't catch that. That's really cool. I wish they would've brought more attention to that. Awesome setup.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: ariich on January 06, 2018, 02:48:20 AM
So, I thought The Last Jedi was awesome, and I honestly haven't seen one material complaint that doesn't also apply to the original trilogy. I'm not saying there's any reason that everyone should love or even like it, just that the specific complaints that some people are making a huge deal over are nothing remotely new for the franchise.

Think this is probably my second favourite SW film behind Empire.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Elite on January 06, 2018, 06:43:12 AM
So, I thought The Last Jedi was awesome, and I honestly haven't seen one material complaint that doesn't also apply to the original trilogy. I'm not saying there's any reason that everyone should love or even like it, just that the specific complaints that some people are making a huge deal over are nothing remotely new for the franchise.

I agree! Saw it this morning, after having watched the original trilogy in the past week. It was a very fun ride and an enjoyable watch. Definitely, some things seem (very) far-fetched, but nothing that stood between me and the enjoyment of the whole. Favourite moment of the film (apart from the gorgeous aftershots of the light-speed ramming); the Millenium Falcon coming in to shoot down the TIEs on the salt-planet. I saw it coming, it was ridiculously predictable, but it worked out wonderfully.

(By the way, how did Rey get on the Falcon anyway? If we're going to nitpick things..)
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Polarbear on January 06, 2018, 08:49:23 AM
So, I thought The Last Jedi was awesome, and I honestly haven't seen one material complaint that doesn't also apply to the original trilogy. I'm not saying there's any reason that everyone should love or even like it, just that the specific complaints that some people are making a huge deal over are nothing remotely new for the franchise.

I agree! Saw it this morning, after having watched the original trilogy in the past week. It was a very fun ride and an enjoyable watch. Definitely, some things seem (very) far-fetched, but nothing that stood between me and the enjoyment of the whole. Favourite moment of the film (apart from the gorgeous aftershots of the light-speed ramming); the Millenium Falcon coming in to shoot down the TIEs on the salt-planet. I saw it coming, it was ridiculously predictable, but it worked out wonderfully.

(By the way, how did Rey get on the Falcon anyway? If we're going to nitpick things..)
Saw it for the third time today, with my dad! I think i'll wait for the Blu-Ray now. ;D

There was this whole episode before the movie started. They started playing the 4K version of the movie on a 2K screen. It took about ten minutes for the staff to figure out what was happening, and they had to start the movie again...

Some poor intern lost his job today. :lol

I still like it very much, and it held up even with my third viewing! My dad also enjoyed it, but we agreed that the biggest problem with it was the running time. They could have trimmed some things a bit. As it is, it is quite long, and i think that it is hurting the repeat viewings with the movie.

But again, it is a great SW movie!

(By the way, how did Rey get on the Falcon anyway? If we're going to nitpick things..)

During the chaos when the cruiser hit Snoke's flagship at warp speed, she stole Snoke's escape craft and rendezvoused with Chewie and the Falcon. Seemed pretty clear to me..
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: faizoff on January 06, 2018, 09:10:41 AM
(By the way, how did Rey get on the Falcon anyway? If we're going to nitpick things..)

During the chaos when the cruiser hit Snoke's flagship at warp speed, she stole Snoke's escape craft and rendezvoused with Chewie and the Falcon. Seemed pretty clear to me..

Right, it's subtle but I had missed that and several other things on the first watch. Chewie basically comes back to the same spot and she back gets on board the ship via the escape pod from Snoke's throne room.

I definitely want to watch it one more time in the theater before it leaves. I definitely love it more each time I watch it and keep discovering other things.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Elite on January 06, 2018, 02:52:27 PM
^
But does it show her getting back on the Falcon in the film? I canít remember seeing that.

Truth be told, I am nitpicking here. Thereís a whole lot of more stuff that I could go on about that was far-fetched or downright unbelievable. It was a good film to watch and I enjoyed it a lot.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Adami on January 06, 2018, 02:58:03 PM
So, I thought The Last Jedi was awesome, and I honestly haven't seen one material complaint that doesn't also apply to the original trilogy. I'm not saying there's any reason that everyone should love or even like it, just that the specific complaints that some people are making a huge deal over are nothing remotely new for the franchise.

Think this is probably my second favourite SW film behind Empire.

I disagree with this as a blanket statement. Some of the complaints? For sure! But I can't think of any of the original films where an entire elongated subplot amounted to virtually nothing and could have been completely cut out without much consequence.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: BlackInk on January 06, 2018, 03:13:33 PM
^
But does it show her getting back on the Falcon in the film? I canít remember seeing that.

No, she tells Chewie to drop her off and go to the Ērendezvous pointĒ I think, which is all we get as explanation for how they later meet up. Which is enough for me.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: ariich on January 07, 2018, 02:15:58 AM
So, I thought The Last Jedi was awesome, and I honestly haven't seen one material complaint that doesn't also apply to the original trilogy. I'm not saying there's any reason that everyone should love or even like it, just that the specific complaints that some people are making a huge deal over are nothing remotely new for the franchise.

Think this is probably my second favourite SW film behind Empire.

I disagree with this as a blanket statement. Some of the complaints? For sure! But I can't think of any of the original films where an entire elongated subplot amounted to virtually nothing and could have been completely cut out without much consequence.

Without much consequence? The way the casino/codebreaker plot line played out had huge consequences on pretty much everything in the last hour of the film. If it hadn't gone down that way, the First Order wouldn't have found out about the hidden shuttles escaping to that planet, they'd have simply destroyed the main ship unaware that it only had one person on it, and then pissed off with dreadnought fully in tact. Meanwhile the resistance would have all made it down to the planet and set up in the rebel base. No epic battle. Luke wouldn't have needed to project himself across the galaxy, so would still be alive. Rey's journey would have played out differently.

If by "amounted to nothing" you essentially mean it was unsuccessful for the protagonists, then yes there's plenty of that in the original trilogy. Han and Leia's entire plot line in Empire Strikes Back, for example.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: BlackInk on January 07, 2018, 03:04:08 AM
Yeah but itís a bit sad that itís only direct consequence was for the coder to tell the First Order that there were smaller shuttles breaking off. Absolutely nothing in the canto bight story was necessary to have that very unrelated outcome.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: IDontNotDoThings on January 07, 2018, 03:12:41 AM
Yeah but itís a bit sad that itís only direct consequence was for the coder to tell the First Order that there were smaller shuttles breaking off. Absolutely nothing in the canto bight story was necessary to have that very unrelated outcome.

I thought that sequence was a huge part of Rose's character development, seeing where she came from & learning what the fight against the first order meant for her as a person. At least that's what the subplot served for me. Plus I think it made the circumstances more dire, having them not finding the master coder stacked the odds that bit extra against them & in my opinion, made the finale to the subplot that much more engaging. I kind of agree that it wasn't totally necessary to the MAIN plotline, but I think the movie wouldn't have been as strong without it.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: ariich on January 07, 2018, 03:14:13 AM
Yeah but itís a bit sad that itís only direct consequence was for the coder to tell the First Order that there were smaller shuttles breaking off. Absolutely nothing in the canto bight story was necessary to have that very unrelated outcome.
The only reason they met DJ was because of how things went down, otherwise they'd have come back with the codebreaker they were supposed to meet. And the only reason everything else afterwards happened the way it did was because they met DJ, who sold them out. The entire final act of the film was a direct consequence.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Elite on January 07, 2018, 03:50:38 AM
I think what the Canto Bight stuff also showed us, was that there's essentially a lot more to the First Order / Resistance battles than we've seen in all the films this far. The film showed us multiple angles from which to view all the conflicts happening. In essence, the Canto Bight sequence enriched the Star Wars universe to some account. Also, the 'big reveal' that Rey's parents were apparent nobodies, coupled with the broom boy at the end force-grabbing his broom, shows us that heroes can be born from anywhere. Underneath the seemingly jolly atmosphere of Canto Bight, a rebellion is being born. It was necessary to show this, because it actively speaks 'hope' in a time where the entire resistance is stuck on the Falcon at the end of the film.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Polarbear on January 07, 2018, 04:03:11 AM
I've said it before, but i loved the theme that heroes can come from anywhere! Blood of heroes is no guarantee that you become a hero yourself, as seen in Ben/Kylo.

Also can we talk about the throne room scene! I was completely fine that there wasn't a traditional lightsaber duel in this movie. That throne room scene was awesome! Could be one of my favorite action scenes in the entire saga. Insanely well choreographed and shot! It was like straight out of The Matrix!
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Elite on January 07, 2018, 04:33:32 AM
the throne room scene was amazingly well executed. I also didn't mind there being no 'proper' lightsaber battle. Actually, I've read somewhere that stuff like that could potentially get stale. Every Star Wars film features a lightsaber battle, it's not that special anymore to see yet another one. This film did great in that respect on multiple instances; lots of expectations were smashed and killed off. The film really brought some fresh stuff to the table, which was a fine welcome.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Podaar on January 07, 2018, 05:22:44 AM
While we're discussing the throne room action scene. What is everyone's view on the lack of "force-acrobatics" in these recent movies. I was very happy that the "prequel" level was abandoned (of course) but I thought the original trilogy was fun for having a few flips and super jumps, especially to help distinguish between the light and dark force users.

I also like the creative choice that Kylo Ren actually uses the force without grace or mastery but like a huge sledge hammer and with brute force. Vader disdainfully and gracefully deflected blaster shots (in spite of his physical limitations) but Ren grabs them in the air like he wants to choke them to death. When Ren fights, he tends to plant his feet wide and bend at the waist like he's ready to take on a hurricane. There's a juvenile "hey look how evil and bad-ass I am" quality to Ren that I think is great too. It makes people underestimate him (I'm looking at you Snoke). He's turning out to be a pretty good manipulator, although it was fun seeing Luke get in the last punch on that front.  :)
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: BlackInk on January 07, 2018, 05:52:59 AM
The only reason they met DJ was because of how things went down, otherwise they'd have come back with the codebreaker they were supposed to meet. And the only reason everything else afterwards happened the way it did was because they met DJ, who sold them out. The entire final act of the film was a direct consequence.

But itís thematically and dramatically unrelated to everything that went on on Canto Bight. There is a huge bullshit animal cruelty subplot and war profiteering subplot here that played absolutely zero into relevant events. Although the war profiteering stuff was at least somewhat relevant, at least thematically, and I wish they would have focused on that more instead of all the other crap that story line gave us. Yes, the third act is a censequence, but only because DJ overheared a phone call, something that did not need like 30 minutes of really boring set up. Nothing else that happened mattered even though they try to make it seem like it.

ĒNow itís worth it.Ē
I gasped in disbelief at that line because itís astronomically stupid. They will have rebuilt that city and recaptured those animals tomorrow. They did way too little of value for the story to justify that much time being wasted on their side quest.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: ariich on January 07, 2018, 06:12:30 AM
The only reason they met DJ was because of how things went down, otherwise they'd have come back with the codebreaker they were supposed to meet. And the only reason everything else afterwards happened the way it did was because they met DJ, who sold them out. The entire final act of the film was a direct consequence.
But it’s thematically and dramatically unrelated to everything that went on on Canto Bight. There is a huge bullshit animal cruelty subplot and war profiteering subplot here that played absolutely zero into relevant events. Although the war profiteering stuff was at least somewhat relevant, at least thematically, and I wish they would have focused on that more instead of all the other crap that story line gave us. Yes, the third act is a censequence, but only because DJ overheared a phone call, something that did not need like 30 minutes of really boring set up. Nothing else that happened mattered even though they try to make it seem like it.

”Now it’s worth it.”
I gasped in disbelief at that line because it’s astronomically stupid. They will have rebuilt that city and recaptured those animals tomorrow. They did way too little of value for the story to justify that much time being wasted on their side quest.
That's fine, but there's plenty of that in the original trilogy too. Everything to with Jabba the Hut, for example. And the Ewoks, good lord.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Elite on January 07, 2018, 06:16:54 AM
Like people complaining we never got to know who Snoke is or where he came from.. I must say, I am rather intrigued and want to know if there's some deeper connection as well, and I'm sure that if it's relevant we will find out eventually, but are the complainers forgetting that the Emperor in the original trilogy also didn't have any back-story whatsoever? Nobody knew who he was or where he came from, he was just the 'big bad guy'.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: BlackInk on January 07, 2018, 06:25:43 AM
That's fine, but there's plenty of that in the original trilogy too. Everything to with Jabba the Hut, for example. And the Ewoks, good lord.

I wonít defend the ewok stuff in terms of quality, but at least they joined in the fight against the empire, so purely from a relevance standpoint they werenít completely pointless. Still pretty ridiculous though.

And while the Jabba stuff isnít that important other than getting Han out of the carbonite, and the scenes tend to drag a bit, at least it feels more interesting and less preachy than Canto Bight.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: ariich on January 07, 2018, 06:31:49 AM
That's fine, but there's plenty of that in the original trilogy too. Everything to with Jabba the Hut, for example. And the Ewoks, good lord.

I wonít defend the ewok stuff in terms of quality, but at least they joined in the fight against the empire, so purely from a relevance standpoint they werenít completely pointless. Still pretty ridiculous though.

And while the Jabba stuff isnít that important other than getting Han out of the carbonite, and the scenes tend to drag a bit, at least it feels more interesting and less preachy than Canto Bight.
But that's not what the complaint was. You found the Canto Bight stuff boring, that's fine, I think I was pretty clear that I'm not talking about whether people like or dislike something, whether it speaks to people, or whatever. That's a matter of taste and that's all cool. My post was that there are dozens of specific complaints trying to justify why the new movie is inherently inferior to others.

This complaint was that the Canto Bight subplot was irrelevant and unnecessary, and my point is (1) it's actually extremely relevant to the main plot in terms of how things play out, and (2) there's plenty of equally on-a-tangent stuff in all the films. One or both of these applies to literally every complaint I've read (again, not counting where people just haven't liked it/enjoyed it or aspects of it, which is fine).
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: BlackInk on January 07, 2018, 07:43:59 AM
Well, arenít the two different complaints related though? My dislike for the Canto Bight scenes is based both on poor execution and irrelevance to the main plot. Iím not saying thereís nothing of relevance, just not enough to justify all the focus so the whole subplot ends up sticking out like a sore thumb, and that I found it boring only made that worse.

As to if this makes TLJ better or worse than the other SW movies, I donít really care, Iím certainly not an OT purist or anything. Iím mostly interested in the content of the movie as it relates to the best potential version of itself. And in that area, Canto Bight is the largest offender.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: jingle.boy on January 07, 2018, 07:48:54 AM
For me, the difference between Canto and Jabba (in ROTJ) is that without the Jabba/Tatooine storyline to rescue Han, the movie has no meaningful opening sequence, and we lose 30 minutes from the film.  Sure, you could rescue Han in 5 minutes or so, but then the movie is 1:45.  TLJ feels bloated because of Canto (it's already 2:32), and condensing/changing the sequence to get the outcome necessary to the rest of the film wouldn't have hurt it whatsoever.

The biggest takeaway I get from the opening of ROTJ is how much Luke's jedi skills have grown since the end of ESB.  You wouldn't get that from a quick snatch-and-grab.

Plus, Slave Leia.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: jammindude on January 07, 2018, 09:30:44 AM
IMO....they did get the codebreaker they were looking for.   Immediately I thought that the guy wearing the lapel pin looked A) nothing like a "code breaker" of any sort", and B) nothing like the type of people that Maz would ever have in her inner circle.    Plus C) magically finding another (apparently extremely rare) expert code breaker who just happened to be sharing a cell with them is a major issue.   

For those reasons, I never thought even for one second that DJ was anything but the original expert code breaker they had been looking for all along, and I figured that (as gamblers often do) he had lost everything on a bet with the guy who had the lapel pin. 
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: lordxizor on January 07, 2018, 10:03:30 AM
That's what I assumed too.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: jingle.boy on January 07, 2018, 10:52:22 AM
That's what I assumed too.

Me three.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Adami on January 07, 2018, 11:15:58 AM
I already explained why I don't think he was the original code breaker. I doubt tiny alien lady would have recommended someone who would so easily betray everyone else. But whatevs.


Also Ariich, I dunno what to tell you. You could literally find a reason to discount every single complaint about anything ever beyond "personally don't like it, but for some reason, I walked out of TLJ thinking "many, a lot of that felt absolutely pointless "when I didn't feel any of that with the other movies (prequels aside). There has to be a reason for that.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: jingle.boy on January 07, 2018, 01:43:03 PM
I already explained why I don't think he was the original code breaker. I doubt tiny alien lady would have recommended someone who would so easily betray everyone else. But whatevs.


Also Ariich, I dunno what to tell you. You could literally find a reason to discount every single complaint about anything ever beyond "personally don't like it, but for some reason, I walked out of TLJ thinking "many, a lot of that felt absolutely pointless "when I didn't feel any of that with the other movies (prequels aside). There has to be a reason for that.

Even with the prequels, I felt there was a point to pretty much all of the sub-plots, even if the acting was atrocious, and the storyline itself was ridiculous.  There was always a point contributing to the bigger picture.  Canto - especially the PETA stuff - I'm not so sure about the point.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: jammindude on January 07, 2018, 02:00:52 PM
Many stories in the sci-fi universe are riddled with anti-hero characters that have earned the trust of many, and then turned out not to be trustworthy, and I don't see why the Star Wars universe would be immune to a character such as that.   It's a big universe.   And the chosen profession (you can call it "code breaker" if you want, but he's a gambler and basically a thief) is automatically shifty in its loyalties.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Adami on January 07, 2018, 02:04:17 PM
Don't get me wrong, you can make an argument for that, as well as just about anything else.

You could argue that lizard lazy sent them there just to see the truth about the socio-economic stuff in the galaxy and that it was all just a big lesson.

Problem is, it's just making an argument. The story told us something and didn't give us any reason to doubt what they told us. So I'm just sticking with what the story told us.


Also the story is FILLED with subverted expectations. So him NOT being the real guy actually fits more in line with what Rian was doing for much of the movie,.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: TheOutlawXanadu on January 08, 2018, 07:24:00 AM
So, I thought The Last Jedi was awesome, and I honestly haven't seen one material complaint that doesn't also apply to the original trilogy. I'm not saying there's any reason that everyone should love or even like it, just that the specific complaints that some people are making a huge deal over are nothing remotely new for the franchise.

Think this is probably my second favourite SW film behind Empire.

I disagree with this as a blanket statement. Some of the complaints? For sure! But I can't think of any of the original films where an entire elongated subplot amounted to virtually nothing and could have been completely cut out without much consequence.


If memory serves, the ten or fifteen minute sequence in Return of the Jedi where our heroes get captured by Ewoks feels similar. It's not an apples-to-apples comparison by any means, but both feel very "bathroom break" and "this could have been done better" to me.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Architeuthis on January 08, 2018, 10:20:44 AM
For me, the difference between Canto and Jabba (in ROTJ) is that without the Jabba/Tatooine storyline to rescue Han, the movie has no meaningful opening sequence, and we lose 30 minutes from the film.  Sure, you could rescue Han in 5 minutes or so, but then the movie is 1:45. 

Plus, Slave Leia.

 Exactly, the whole Jabba scene was necessary in ROTJ.  Jabba had a bounty on solos head because he owed him a lot of money. It wasn't gonna be any easy task to rescue Han Solo, so they had to make a pretty extensive scene out of the process.  It was executed very well. I liked how Jabba was totally immune to Jedi mind tricks or use of the Force, lol!
 The Rancor scene was awesome! I remember that monster freaked me out when I saw that movie for the first time in a big Theater (UA 150 in Seattle) at 11 years old.. I would like to see how Jabba aquired that thing and where it came from.
The scene at the Sarlaac pit was awesome too, good way for Boba-fett to go out followed by a nice belch!
 Too bad Lucas had to ruin part of the Jabba Scenes when he added the different song and CGI characters to the music scene with Sy Snootles,, ughh!  The remasters are an epic fail..
 
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Polarbear on January 08, 2018, 12:00:13 PM
Return of the Jedi got the short end of the stick when it comes to the remasters!

I don't have problems with the changes to Empire. New Hope changes i can tolerate. But the sing/dance number by the cgi monstrosities in Jabbas palace is wrong on so many levels. Vader shouting NOOO, just destroys the tension in the throne room scene!

For the record, i like the new victory celebration song better than Yub Nub though.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Orbert on January 08, 2018, 01:21:10 PM
I finally saw The Last Jedi last night.  I thought it was pretty good, but really long.  It had flaws, it had good stuff, it was a Star Wars movie.

I can't think of anything to add that others haven't already said.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Architeuthis on January 08, 2018, 01:24:24 PM
I do like the new victory song, but I still like the original Yub Nub better. I hated they way the original Anakin ghost was replaced with the Christian Hayden one. I can see why, but it doesn't work. So wrong.
Yeah ROTJ got screwed the worst on the remasters.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Elite on January 08, 2018, 04:04:10 PM
Exactly, the whole Jabba scene was necessary in ROTJ.

Was it now? There's what, three years(?) between the events of ANH and ESB and there was no way whatsoever Han could have paid back the bounty on his head?

Apart from that, the overall improbability of the entire first half hour of ROTJ makes it my least favourite 30 minutes out of the entire original trilogy.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Architeuthis on January 08, 2018, 04:14:56 PM
Exactly, the whole Jabba scene was necessary in ROTJ.

Was it now? There's what, three years(?) between the events of ANH and ESB and there was no way whatsoever Han could have paid back the bounty on his head?

Apart from that, the overall improbability of the entire first half hour of ROTJ makes it my least favourite 30 minutes out of the entire original trilogy.
Well that's just weird, because the whole Jabba Scene kicks arss!  :biggrin:
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: BlackInk on January 12, 2018, 06:43:58 AM
(https://scontent-arn2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-0/p480x480/26219957_589723708044365_3953430896771247937_n.jpg?oh=05360158367998bbaad53e10f9fe3a7a&oe=5AFCE63D)
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Phoenix87x on January 12, 2018, 07:34:34 AM
^^^  :lol
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Orbert on January 12, 2018, 08:08:35 AM
That whole thing with Rose and Finn was the biggest WTF in the entire movie for me.  For one, Rose was the younger sister of someone we'd seen die valiantly, and I thought she was supposed to be like 12 years old, but okay I figured you're never too young to join the resistance.  Then they went on that whole mission to find the hacker, didn't find him but did manage to find a guy who claimed to be a hacker, but then he betrayed them and the mission failed.  Nice waste of half an hour there.

Then Finn is ready to sacrifice himself to take out the nuclear battering ram thing, and Rose takes him out.  Why!?  After wasting the entire movie, I figured Finn was gonna at least go out with a heroic exit, but no.  Somewhere in there, she kissed him, and I finally realized that she's not supposed to be 12.  15 maybe?  But that whole thing made no fucking sense.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: BlobVanDam on January 12, 2018, 08:12:58 AM
That whole thing with Rose and Finn was the biggest WTF in the entire movie for me.  For one, Rose was the younger sister of someone we'd seen die valiantly, and I thought she was supposed to be like 12 years old, but okay I figured you're never too young to join the resistance.  Then they went on that whole mission to find the hacker, didn't find him but did manage to find a guy who claimed to be a hacker, but then he betrayed them and the mission failed.  Nice waste of half an hour there.

Then Finn is ready to sacrifice himself to take out the nuclear battering ram thing, and Rose takes him out.  Why!?  After wasting the entire movie, I figured Finn was gonna at least go out with a heroic exit, but no.  Somewhere in there, she kissed him, and I finally realized that she's not supposed to be 12.  15 maybe?  But that whole thing made no fucking sense.

What? I know asians look young, but she's 28 man. She's older than John Boyega. :lol
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Orbert on January 12, 2018, 08:34:26 AM
I guess it was my first impression and I couldn't get past it.  In that whatever-suit she was wearing when we first met her, she looked like a little kid in pajamas, the suit was too big for her and I figured it was supposed to be that way.  I didn't help that Boyega isn't exactly tall, and she was much smaller that him.  I thought she was supposed to be a kid, and even as the story unfolded, I couldn't shake that image.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: BlackInk on January 12, 2018, 08:50:58 AM
We didnít see much of Paige, but after getting a whole movie with Rose, I love Paige. Wish we could have gotten that sister for all of it.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Kattelox on January 12, 2018, 08:58:16 AM
Rose was a waste of time and money, shouldn't have even been in the film other than a throwaway character as Finn tries to leave. But nope... ugh
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: jingle.boy on January 12, 2018, 12:28:47 PM
That whole thing with Rose and Finn was the biggest WTF in the entire movie for me.  For one, Rose was the younger sister of someone we'd seen die valiantly, and I thought she was supposed to be like 12 years old, but okay I figured you're never too young to join the resistance.  Then they went on that whole mission to find the hacker, didn't find him but did manage to find a guy who claimed to be a hacker, but then he betrayed them and the mission failed.  Nice waste of half an hour there.

Then Finn is ready to sacrifice himself to take out the nuclear battering ram thing, and Rose takes him out.  Why!?  After wasting the entire movie, I figured Finn was gonna at least go out with a heroic exit, but no.  Somewhere in there, she kissed him, and I finally realized that she's not supposed to be 12.  15 maybe?  But that whole thing made no fucking sense.

What? I know asians look young, but she's 28 man. She's older than John Boyega. :lol

I know right.  It's like Bob's racist or something!  :lol  Is this like a case where black people are allowed to use the N word?  Asians can bitch about how young other Asians look?
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: ariich on January 12, 2018, 12:50:28 PM
I guess it was my first impression and I couldn't get past it.
I think this might be an indication of your age, rather than hers. ;)

Rose was awesome.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Orbert on January 12, 2018, 01:00:32 PM
That whole thing with Rose and Finn was the biggest WTF in the entire movie for me.  For one, Rose was the younger sister of someone we'd seen die valiantly, and I thought she was supposed to be like 12 years old, but okay I figured you're never too young to join the resistance.  Then they went on that whole mission to find the hacker, didn't find him but did manage to find a guy who claimed to be a hacker, but then he betrayed them and the mission failed.  Nice waste of half an hour there.

Then Finn is ready to sacrifice himself to take out the nuclear battering ram thing, and Rose takes him out.  Why!?  After wasting the entire movie, I figured Finn was gonna at least go out with a heroic exit, but no.  Somewhere in there, she kissed him, and I finally realized that she's not supposed to be 12.  15 maybe?  But that whole thing made no fucking sense.

What? I know asians look young, but she's 28 man. She's older than John Boyega. :lol

I know right.  It's like Bob's racist or something!  :lol  Is this like a case where black people are allowed to use the N word?  Asians can bitch about how young other Asians look?

Yep.

I guess it was my first impression and I couldn't get past it.
I think this might be an indication of your age, rather than hers. ;)

Yep.

Rose was awesome.

Nope.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Polarbear on January 12, 2018, 01:16:49 PM
I guess it was my first impression and I couldn't get past it.
I think this might be an indication of your age, rather than hers. ;)

Rose was awesome.

Yep!

They could have done a lot more with Rose, but the movie is pretty overstuffed as it is. Her speech at the end could have been cut altogether though! :biggrin: Okay, let her save Finn, but the collision could have just knocked her out.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Architeuthis on January 12, 2018, 07:43:06 PM
Quote from: Orber

What? I know asians look young, but she's 28 man. She's older than John Boyega. :lol
[/quote

I know right.  It's like Bob's racist or something!  :lol  Is this like a case where black people are allowed to use the N word?  Asians can bitch about how young other Asians look?
  :rollin
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: gmillerdrake on January 17, 2018, 07:55:30 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/3qfCGxA.jpg)
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: ariich on January 17, 2018, 09:49:31 AM
:lol

Although I'd hardly call Poe trusting.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Orbert on January 19, 2018, 12:20:07 PM
(https://imgur.com/HEEMtoJ.jpg)
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: kaos2900 on January 19, 2018, 01:13:41 PM
Any word on when there will be a trailer for Solo? Seems odd that the movie will be out in less than 4 months and there hasn't been anything release yet. I still think they should move it to December. I sense that regardless of how good or bad the film turns out that it's going to bomb in May for number of reasons including lack of marketing, fatigue from The Last Jedi, and The Avengers film.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: jingle.boy on January 19, 2018, 03:00:34 PM
Any word on when there will be a trailer for Solo? Seems odd that the movie will be out in less than 4 months and there hasn't been anything release yet. I still think they should move it to December. I sense that regardless of how good or bad the film turns out that it's going to bomb in May for number of reasons including lack of marketing, fatigue from The Last Jedi, and The Avengers film.

And Deadpool 2
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: BlobVanDam on January 19, 2018, 09:24:44 PM
I don't know how this trainwreck hasn't been pushed back to December yet. We're not that far out yet, and we've yet to see a single second of footage from this movie. It would be in their best interest to give this more time, not just for the sake of this movie, but the franchise in general.

I can just imagine Disney mentioning a big Solo announcement and everyone expects a trailer, only for them to announce a new December date. :biggrin:
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: faizoff on January 20, 2018, 05:29:14 AM
I also wonder if this delay in releasing a trailer is them deciding if this movie should be pushed back to December. I personally like others would not mind a Star Wars release every December.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: BlobVanDam on January 20, 2018, 05:38:54 AM
I've been quite liking the regular December releases, and I think having two SW movies only half a year apart could cause some franchise fatigue.
On top of that, expectations for this movie are quite low, and coming off the mixed reception to TLJ, it could hurt them in the long run. Hopefully the rumours of this movie being bad are overstated as they were with Rogue One, but there's no buzz for this right now.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: jammindude on January 20, 2018, 10:33:22 AM
Ron Howard does give me hope.   He's not incapable of making a bad movie (as I've heard the DaVinci Code was a steaming turd), but he's got a pretty good track record.   He's certainly had far more good outings than bad. 
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: BlobVanDam on January 20, 2018, 11:29:49 AM
Ron Howard was put in a tough situation, being a replacement director at such a late stage, so I won't blame him if it turns out to be a turd.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Architeuthis on January 20, 2018, 08:54:37 PM
I like the idea of having an early summer release. Star Wars every six months is fine with me if they can have the capacity and creativity to keep it exciting. I think the Solo movie will be fun, it makes me wonder if that movie will be a little more light hearted? I mean, a young Han Solo on his adventures being a smuggler for Jabba and cruising the Melleniam Falcon around the galaxy. I hope they have a lot of Jabba The Butt in this movie and his dealings with Solo and the Wookie.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: kaos2900 on January 22, 2018, 06:51:27 AM
There is no reason to have this released in May. If Disney goes this route then I think it will be their first major mistake with the Franchise. They won't be hurting for money considering they have 3 Marvel films being released in a 7 month time frame. The only way I see them releasing this in May is if they know they fucked up and made a shitty movie and want it out and forgotten once the Avengers comes out.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: lordxizor on January 22, 2018, 08:53:43 AM
The only way I see them releasing this in May is if they know they fucked up and made a shitty movie and want it out and forgotten once the Avengers comes out.
Or they have a completed film and want to stick with the original schedule. No reason to think that in and of itself is a bad sign.

Marvel releases several movies a year and they're all at least partially interrelated. While I think there is a bit of Marvel fatigue going on, they are mostly really enjoyable movies and do well commercially. No reason they can't have two Star Wars movies released within 6 months of each other. Though I would prefer they stick to one December release per year.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Orbert on January 22, 2018, 09:24:39 AM
The reason why people are tending toward "negative speculation" regarding the Solo movie is because there has been zero promotion for it thus far, and overall very little media buzz (other than all the behind-the-scenes issues).  If the movie is coming out in four months, especially a Star Wars movie, we would normally be getting hammered by promo for it by now.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Adami on January 22, 2018, 09:25:56 AM
Well itís the lack of promo AND all the negative buzz.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: lordxizor on January 22, 2018, 09:41:38 AM
Sure, I get all that. There's plenty of reason to be worried. I just don't think sticking to the original schedule, even with all the reshoots, is one of them. Now if they are doing reshoots in April, it would make me worried.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Polarbear on January 22, 2018, 09:41:49 AM
Calling it now, they are going to delay it for a couple of months, possibly even as far as December!

Four months out, and not even a teaser trailer, weird...
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: lordxizor on January 22, 2018, 09:48:32 AM
It is weird. Even with all the rumored issues, I find it hard to believe they couldn't have come out with a teaser trailer by now. They could have cobbled together something with the original footage they ended up supposedly tossing out. If they movie is so bad they can't even put together a 1 minute teaser, they might as well cut their losses and can the whole thing. I suspect there are other reasons, and I also suspect that they would have delayed the release date by now if they were going to. But we'll see. Wouldn't be surprised either way.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Adami on January 22, 2018, 09:57:44 AM
I heard a rumor that we'll get a teaser this week maybe.

In the end, I doubt the movie will be terrible. Obviously some people will hate it, just as they hated every other SW movie (even SW fans), some people will love it cause it will be fun and have tons of fan service, and most people will think it's just okay.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: bosk1 on January 22, 2018, 10:01:00 AM
The only way I see them releasing this in May is if they know they fucked up and made a shitty movie and want it out and forgotten once the Avengers comes out.
Or they have a completed film and want to stick with the original schedule. No reason to think that in and of itself is a bad sign.

Marvel releases several movies a year and they're all at least partially interrelated. While I think there is a bit of Marvel fatigue going on, they are mostly really enjoyable movies and do well commercially. No reason they can't have two Star Wars movies released within 6 months of each other. Though I would prefer they stick to one December release per year.

Yeah, I agree with all of that, lordxizor. 

And with the "Marvel fatigue," we've been getting MCU films at the clip of 2-3 a year for several years now (which they know they can afford to do because most fans are onboard at least until Infinity War concludes).  We're nowhere near that level of market saturation with Star Wars.  I don't see the timing as an issue in and of itself.  The main issue will simply be the quality of the film.  If it is good, the timing will work in favor for the SW universe.  If it is bad, I don't really see the timing having an impact other than people trying to argue that it was "rushed."  But I don't really see timing being the issue if the quality is just lacking because I don't see anything suggesting that things have been rushed on this film.

It is weird. Even with all the rumored issues, I find it hard to believe they couldn't have come out with a teaser trailer by now. They could have cobbled together something with the original footage they ended up supposedly tossing out. If they movie is so bad they can't even put together a 1 minute teaser, they might as well cut their losses and can the whole thing. I suspect there are other reasons, and I also suspect that they would have delayed the release date by now if they were going to. But we'll see. Wouldn't be surprised either way.

Yeah, same here.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: bosk1 on January 22, 2018, 10:04:10 AM
I heard a rumor that we'll get a teaser this week maybe.

In the end, I doubt the movie will be terrible. Obviously some people will hate it, just as they hated every other SW movie (even SW fans), some people will love it cause it will be fun and have tons of fan service, and most people will think it's just okay.

I really don't know what to expect and cannot predict how I will feel about it.  My interest level in a Solo-specific film is low.  And my expectations for it are low.  But as I've mentioned before, I felt that way about Rogue One as well before I had seen a trailer for it, and I ended up loving that film. 
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: BlobVanDam on January 22, 2018, 10:52:24 AM
I heard a rumor that we'll get a teaser this week maybe.

I've been seeing rumours speculating for just about every day this month, but there will have to be some info very soon, whether it be a trailer or delay announcement (I haven't seen any actual rumours of delays though surprisingly)

Rogue One is the main reason I'm trying to reserve judgement, as the word on that movie was not good concerning reshoots and editing, and the trailer ended up containing a lot of things that weren't even in the movie, and yet it's been my favourite of the Disney Star Wars movies so far.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: YtseJam on January 26, 2018, 03:46:06 PM
Disney is being reserved because they know they are going to lose potential profits by having two back to back shitty movies. Solo has probably been re-written 50 times. They should just scrap it!
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: jammindude on January 26, 2018, 06:22:27 PM
What was the other one?   The Last Jedi was amazing!
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: gmillerdrake on January 26, 2018, 07:27:54 PM
The Last Jedi was amazing!

Agreed  :tup
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: YtseJam on January 27, 2018, 08:03:26 PM
Amazing?  :loser:

It was okay but far far away from amazing.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: ariich on January 28, 2018, 01:48:03 AM
Nah it was awesome, the more I think about it, the more I think it's probably my second favourite behind Empire.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Polarbear on January 28, 2018, 01:58:23 AM
I can't say that i prefer it over any of the originals, but it was still very good!

Ben/Ren is just as compelling of a villain as Vader IMO.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: BlobVanDam on January 28, 2018, 02:27:11 AM
The more I think about TLJ, the more I think what the hell were they thinking.
It goes without saying that it's still better than the prequels, but that's not saying much in itself. The whole tone of the film was off, and it did a lot of damage to the trilogy. I don't envy JJ having to follow that. When all is said and done, I think this is going to be a really odd and jarring trilogy to watch back to back. There were good moments in there, but it's not a movie I'd ever want to watch again.

And what is happening with this Solo film?? Is it coming out in May or not? It's alarming that we're potentially this close to a release date without seeing so much as a single frame of the film. Apparently they're renaming the movie in China to remove any association with Star Wars after the poor performance of TLJ there. Is it even worth releasing it at all there in that case? The main appeal of this movie is that it's a backstory to a beloved OT character, which means nothing to the Chinese audience.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: BlackInk on January 28, 2018, 05:12:33 AM
It's really difficult to decide what I actually think of The Last Jedi. The highs are so high, the lows are pretty darn low to be honest, and there's a lot of just weird stuff and decisions throughout. It makes for an overall enjoyable experience, but tainted so deeply by certain parts that it's nearly impossible for me to maintain a consistant view of it.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: jingle.boy on January 28, 2018, 05:19:12 AM
Nah it was awesome, the more I think about it, the more I think it's probably my second favourite behind Empire.

Certainly makes sense, since it's a clone of ESB.  :neverusethis:
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: jammindude on January 28, 2018, 09:13:02 AM
TLJ actually REALLY ticked me off at first, but itís almost like the first time I heard Frank Zappa....you could tell there was a lot of thought behind it, but it was jarring....it challenged me. 

Now I think itís an absolutely brilliant film.   Iíve said it elsewhere, and I canít remember if I said it here or not, but The Force Awakens was pop music, and The Last Jedi is jazz.   I love this trilogy so far.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: BlobVanDam on January 28, 2018, 05:50:43 PM
I can't say I see that comparison at all. They're both Hollywood pop music.
I had a lot of problems with TFA coming out of the cinema despite really enjoying it for what it was, but after thought and discussion, a lot of those problems could either be explained, or were acceptable pending where they took those plot points in the next film.
I had even more issues with TLJ coming out of the cinema, and the more I think about it, the more those decisions just bother me in the grand scheme of the franchise. And even more unfortunately, it's also hurt TFA by destroying most of what it established. So it was not only a disappointing movie, but it made TFA worse for me too.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: IDontNotDoThings on January 28, 2018, 08:41:45 PM
TLJ actually REALLY ticked me off at first, but itís almost like the first time I heard Frank Zappa....you could tell there was a lot of thought behind it, but it was jarring....it challenged me. 

Now I think itís an absolutely brilliant film.   Iíve said it elsewhere, and I canít remember if I said it here or not, but The Force Awakens was pop music, and The Last Jedi is jazz.   I love this trilogy so far.

Does that mean the prequels were Metal Machine Music?  :lol
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Cool Chris on January 28, 2018, 09:12:19 PM
I had a lot of problems with TFA coming out of the cinema despite really enjoying it for what it was, but after thought and discussion, a lot of those problems could either be explained, or were acceptable pending where they took those plot points in the next film.
I had even more issues with TLJ coming out of the cinema, and the more I think about it, the more those decisions just bother me in the grand scheme of the franchise. And even more unfortunately, it's also hurt TFA by destroying most of what it established. So it was not only a disappointing movie, but it made TFA worse for me too.

Interesting assessment.  Unlike you though, I didn't think TFA had many problems, other than I didn't find it very interesting. I support your feeling TLJ destroyed much of what TFA established, if you feel it established anything worthwhile. I don't.

Looking back, for me the most interesting thing about TFA was Han, the most interesting thing about TLJ was Luke. *shrug.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Polarbear on January 29, 2018, 01:08:52 AM
I didn't feel that TLJ destroyed any of the foundations set by TFA.

I felt that it shifted the focus away from things that were not important. I don't think anyone is going to miss a cgi emperor knockoff..

Most interesting part of this trilogy for me is Kylo Ren, and i liked that he moved into the spotlight as the main villain.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: noxon on January 29, 2018, 01:47:59 AM
Speculation, fan theories and expectations based on that destroyed The Last Jedi. Familiarity of something makes it easier to like it. When the fan theories on the internet were all about "Rey must be a Skywalker (child of either Luke or Leia) - the fact that the movie revealed that she's a nobody was a kick in the groin to the already "established truth". The same goes for the fan theories about Snoke. And an imense heap of stories in the expanded universe (or rather as Disney calls it now - "Legends") also established some truths - like what powers Jedis actually have and how the light and dark side of the force works. I think the sum of it is as simple as "fandom ruined Star Wars". I don't really understand how else to explain the discrepancy between the critic reviews and the audience reactions...

Me, personally, I loved it. The experience was powerful and imense. There were things I took issue with - but man, it wouldnt be a Star Wars movie if there wasnt something incredibly dumb in it too ;)
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: ariich on January 29, 2018, 02:52:44 AM
Speculation, fan theories and expectations based on that destroyed The Last Jedi. Familiarity of something makes it easier to like it. When the fan theories on the internet were all about "Rey must be a Skywalker (child of either Luke or Leia) - the fact that the movie revealed that she's a nobody was a kick in the groin to the already "established truth". The same goes for the fan theories about Snoke. And an imense heap of stories in the expanded universe (or rather as Disney calls it now - "Legends") also established some truths - like what powers Jedis actually have and how the light and dark side of the force works. I think the sum of it is as simple as "fandom ruined Star Wars". I don't really understand how else to explain the discrepancy between the critic reviews and the audience reactions...

Me, personally, I loved it. The experience was powerful and imense. There were things I took issue with - but man, it wouldnt be a Star Wars movie if there wasnt something incredibly dumb in it too ;)
This so much.

I personally find the notion that TLJ ruined anything about TFA or the original trilogy very silly.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: jingle.boy on January 29, 2018, 05:01:58 AM
Good post Noxon, though I will dispute one point regarding Jedi powers... two glaring examples from TFA that created the whole interwebz discussion on what powers they "should" have

1) 'freezing' a blaster bolt.  Vader couldn't (Cloud City dining room); Ren can.
2) Extracting memories.  Vader couldn't (Leia); Ren can.

I think that films in a franchise should respect the boundaries of what had been previously established - new technology and filming capabilities notwithstanding - eg, the evolution of light saber battles.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: BlackInk on January 29, 2018, 05:24:18 AM
Firstly, in terms of force abilities one should or should not have, I kind of see it as athletic feats. Most records keep being broken. They build on each other and improve naturally overtime. So I donít find that implausible.

Secondly, while fan expectation absolutely plays a part, I donít think itís the whole issue. I love the ĒRey is nobodyĒ twist, but I take issue with ĒSnoke is nobodyĒ. Why that is seems to be a very complicated matter, of which my personal expectations plays a minor part. That Snoke dies and Kylo Ren replaces him; great! Kylo is probably the most interesting character in this new trilogy so I love that he will take the top spot. But I have a bit of a problem with how it happened, because I felt that it lacked something from a storytelling perspective.

And of course, Canto Bight, which is just a bad sequence and has nothing to do with expectations.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: YtseJam on January 29, 2018, 09:57:42 AM
I had even more issues with TLJ coming out of the cinema, and the more I think about it, the more those decisions just bother me in the grand scheme of the franchise. And even more unfortunately, it's also hurt TFA by destroying most of what it established. So it was not only a disappointing movie, but it made TFA worse for me too.

I feel the same as you describe.

As far as Solo goes, my biggest question is why? Why F with Harrison Ford's Han Solo legacy? I get that he was a popular character but look at young Indiana Jones for that matter. It's way too soon for a Solo movie for me. I will not give them a penny for the viewing of that film even in concept.  :tdwn
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: lordxizor on January 29, 2018, 10:09:24 AM
As far as Solo goes, my biggest question is why?
I feel the same way. Why mess with iconic characters? I'll still go see it though.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Architeuthis on January 29, 2018, 10:49:45 AM
Good post Noxon, though I will dispute one point regarding Jedi powers... two glaring examples from TFA that created the whole interwebz discussion on what powers they "should" have

1) 'freezing' a blaster bolt.  Vader couldn't (Cloud City dining room); Ren can.
2) Extracting memories.  Vader couldn't (Leia); Ren can.

I think that films in a franchise should respect the boundaries of what had been previously established - new technology and filming capabilities notwithstanding - eg, the evolution of light saber battles.
Yeah but Vader is more of a bad-ass. He could just deflect the blaster bolt using the palm of his hand. Notice when Solo fires at him when the door opens to the banquet room. I'm sure Vader could have used the force to freeze it in mid-air, but he just handled it old school. lol
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: lordxizor on January 29, 2018, 11:33:55 AM
Is Einstein any less of a genius because scientists today understand all of his theories and have expanded on them? Of course not. Kylo Ren simply took what Vader knew about the force and has expanded on it. Its no different than any field of study or athletics really. I don't need to have a manual about what is and is not possible with the force. As long as they make what seem to be incremental increases in force power rather than huge jumps, I'm OK with new force powers.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Aelon on January 29, 2018, 11:54:33 AM
I'm not positive, but don't different Sith Lords specialize in different aspects of the force? Kind of like Jedi get to choose the color of their lightsaber?
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: jingle.boy on January 29, 2018, 02:49:30 PM
Is Einstein any less of a genius because scientists today understand all of his theories and have expanded on them? Of course not. Kylo Ren simply took what Vader knew about the force and has expanded on it. Its no different than any field of study or athletics really. I don't need to have a manual about what is and is not possible with the force. As long as they make what seem to be incremental increases in force power rather than huge jumps, I'm OK with new force powers.

I see what you're saying, but I still think you're full of shit.   :rollin

Kidding!

It's my new favorite line to use.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: gmillerdrake on January 30, 2018, 09:23:54 AM
Speculation, fan theories and expectations based on that destroyed The Last Jedi. Familiarity of something makes it easier to like it. When the fan theories on the internet were all about "Rey must be a Skywalker (child of either Luke or Leia) - the fact that the movie revealed that she's a nobody was a kick in the groin to the already "established truth". The same goes for the fan theories about Snoke. And an imense heap of stories in the expanded universe (or rather as Disney calls it now - "Legends") also established some truths - like what powers Jedis actually have and how the light and dark side of the force works. I think the sum of it is as simple as "fandom ruined Star Wars". I don't really understand how else to explain the discrepancy between the critic reviews and the audience reactions...

Me, personally, I loved it. The experience was powerful and imense. There were things I took issue with - but man, it wouldnt be a Star Wars movie if there wasnt something incredibly dumb in it too ;)
This so much.

I personally find the notion that TLJ ruined anything about TFA or the original trilogy very silly.

Completely on board with you two.


ROTJ was on television last night. I watched it with the kiddos.....it was neat to see it again and I 'like' that movie. BUT.....if you hold it to the standard that TFA and TLJ are being held to it'd be shredded to pieces as well.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: BlobVanDam on January 30, 2018, 10:08:04 AM
ROTJ was on television last night. I watched it with the kiddos.....it was neat to see it again and I 'like' that movie. BUT.....if you hold it to the standard that TFA and TLJ are being held to it'd be shredded to pieces as well.

It DOES get shredded to pieces. As do the prequels. They get held to a similar standard.
But if there's a significant contradiction or discrepancy, it's the recent film that's at fault, not the originals. One of the many many reasons why the prequels failed. That and the fact they just sucked on every level of film making. :lol
There are plenty of bullshit criticisms of the recent films, especially regarding Rey, but there are also plenty of very valid ones even compared objectively to the originals. And the originals are not without their own flaws either of course.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Orbert on January 30, 2018, 10:49:10 AM
Not funny enough for the Funny Stuff thread, just weird and kinda twisted.  So it goes here.

(https://imgur.com/NIvJCpF.jpg)
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Phoenix87x on January 30, 2018, 11:15:59 AM
 :rollin
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Polarbear on January 30, 2018, 11:55:05 AM
 :biggrin: :lol

That's funny!
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: bosk1 on January 30, 2018, 11:59:19 AM
Personally, I would have put it in the Harvey Weinstein thread.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Orbert on January 30, 2018, 12:20:22 PM
 :omg:
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: YtseJam on January 30, 2018, 05:16:03 PM
ROTJ was on television last night. I watched it with the kiddos.....it was neat to see it again and I 'like' that movie. BUT.....if you hold it to the standard that TFA and TLJ are being held to it'd be shredded to pieces as well.

It DOES get shredded to pieces. As do the prequels. They get held to a similar standard.
But if there's a significant contradiction or discrepancy, it's the recent film that's at fault, not the originals. One of the many many reasons why the prequels failed. That and the fact they just sucked on every level of film making. :lol
There are plenty of bullshit criticisms of the recent films, especially regarding Rey, but there are also plenty of very valid ones even compared objectively to the originals. And the originals are not without their own flaws either of course.

It was easier to overlook any flaws because the movies drew real emotions from the audience. None of those movies made me feel like I did when I saw this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H9xytMepcj8
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Architeuthis on February 01, 2018, 07:01:06 PM
Not funny enough for the Funny Stuff thread, just weird and kinda twisted.  So it goes here.

(https://imgur.com/NIvJCpF.jpg)
The most cringeworthy part of the whole movie!  Why Disney,, WHY?!?!
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Orbert on February 01, 2018, 08:38:53 PM
I guess the idea was to explain how Luke had been surviving there all this time.  What did he eat, what did he drink?  This answered part of that, and I guess the scene where Chewy was roasting a puffin was the rest of the answer.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: BlobVanDam on February 01, 2018, 09:30:06 PM
Was the milk that came out the blue milk? If so, it might have been a dumb easter egg to explain where blue milk comes from. Mostly I think it was just stuck in as a dumb joke though.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: gmillerdrake on February 01, 2018, 10:15:46 PM
I guess the idea was to explain how Luke had been surviving there all this time.  What did he eat, what did he drink?  This answered part of that, and I guess the scene where Chewy was roasting a puffin was the rest of the answer.

Thy also showed him spearing a huge fish.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Orbert on February 01, 2018, 10:39:03 PM
I thought he did, but I've only seen the movie once. 
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: BlobVanDam on February 01, 2018, 10:46:10 PM
Also Orbert, it's a Porg, not a Puffin. This is important.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Adami on February 01, 2018, 11:00:18 PM
Honestly, for most of lonely island Luke, I was just thinking to myself "BUT HOW IS HE EATING AND DRINKING AND STUFF!?!?!?"

So I'm glad they answered those important questions.

Jedi temple history? Nah. Weird Sith underground chamber of mirrors? Nah.

Milk and fish? YES!
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Orbert on February 02, 2018, 06:25:35 AM
Also Orbert, it's a Porg, not a Puffin. This is important.

Same genus, different species.  They all taste exactly the same.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: jingle.boy on February 02, 2018, 07:15:19 AM
Honestly, for most of lonely island Luke, I was just thinking to myself "BUT HOW IS HE EATING AND DRINKING AND STUFF!?!?!?"

So I'm glad they answered those important questions.

Jedi temple history? Nah. Weird Sith underground chamber of mirrors? Nah.

Milk and fish? YES!

(https://memegenerator.net/img/instances/500x/57592800/the-sarcasm-is-strong-with-this-one.jpg)
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: TheOutlawXanadu on February 02, 2018, 10:17:18 AM
I think that the official episodes will always be fighting an uphill battle because of fan expectations. Not only do they have to meet expectations as far as specific theories, but if the films are anything less than perfect, people will be disappointed because of the missed opportunity.

Speaking for myself, I went into VIII with no specific expectations. I enjoyed the movie. It's a solid 7/10 in my book. However, even though I consider myself to be a pretty low-maintenance fan, I can't shake a feeling of disappointment that I didn't enjoy it more. This is obviously completely unfair to the film, but that's kind of where Star Wars is now. It's hard to be logical about this stuff.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Orbert on February 02, 2018, 10:34:10 AM
I'm pretty much in the same boat.  While I was watching it, it was fine.  Funny stuff, action stuff, drama stuff, Star Wars stuff.

I try to avoid spoilers and pretty much anything else about a movie until after I've watched it, then afterwards, I like reading what others have to say.  I often get more out of the original experience, because people point of stuff I'd missed and other cool stuff I didn't even realize.  In a sense, I get more out of the movie because I can appreciate more of what it did.

In this case, however, there was a lot more "So that's it?  We never find out anything about Snoke?  Rey's parents were nobodies?  Luke and Leia's final scene together didn't actually happen?" and so on.

So I did it to myself, because I was okay with the movie until I realized all the stuff it didn't have and didn't explain or follow-up on from The Force Awakens.  After I watched The Force Awakens, I was expecting all that stuff, but I guess I'd forgotten all that.  A lot of movies are like that; plenty of fun to watch, but if you think too much about it later, you'll realize that there are holes.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: bosk1 on February 02, 2018, 11:29:07 AM
I'm much closer to TOX.  I just liked it, period.  I get that some people don't like the issues you pointed out, Orbert.  I just object to them being called "holes."  They aren't.  They were conscious decisions, albeit controversial ones.  If people choose not to like them, that's all fine.  But they aren't just mistakes--they were conscious, creative decisions that are intentionally jarring.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Orbert on February 02, 2018, 12:07:41 PM
You're right.  None of those are actual holes.  They're just stuff that people wanted but didn't get.

But at the same time, The Force Awakens did seem to hint at much more to be revealed, and we didn't get it (yet?)

No real background on Snoke, I can live with.  Stuff we thought we'd get but didn't, okay.  Chewy and Finn are now bit players.  But if Rey's parents really were nobodies, and she's not related to the Skywalkers, then what the hell was that when she first touched Luke's light saber back at Maz's place?  All the voices, including Obi-Wan's for some reason.  That really seemed to indicate much more than "Oh, she's Force-sensitive and picked up vibes from it."
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: bosk1 on February 02, 2018, 12:20:58 PM
But if Rey's parents really were nobodies, and she's not related to the Skywalkers, then what the hell was that when she first touched Luke's light saber back at Maz's place?  All the voices, including Obi-Wan's for some reason.  That really seemed to indicate much more than "Oh, she's Force-sensitive and picked up vibes from it."

But I think the point from TLJ is that BOTH are true.  She IS force-sensitive.  AND she is not related to the Skywalkers.  She is force-sensitive just because she is.  The force "chose" her for some reason unrelated to the Skywalker line, and that's kinda cool, isn't it, for at least a couple of reasons?  First, I think it makes for a better overall story that, as Rian Johnson really tried to highlight in this last installment, the potential to be a hero is for EVERYBODY (in varying degrees), and the force is, to an extent, an extension of that.  Second, just from a creative storytelling point of view, it makes sense after all this time to start to shift away from the Skywalkers, doesn't it? 

So, my point is, I don't see why there is any conflict between VII and VIII. 
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: kaos2900 on February 02, 2018, 12:36:28 PM
Rian Johnson has stated several times that Rey's parentage was done the way it was because it was the hardest thing for her to hear at the time. It's still possible, especially with JJ coming back to direct the next film, that she really isn't a nobody but that Snoke deceived both Kylo and Rey with that information. Now whether or not she's a Skywalker, or Kenobi or whatever is yet to be seen. Personally I like the way that TLJ ended because it really leaves pretty much everything up in the air for Episode 9. Really the only thing we know that's going to happen is that Leia won't be in it and Kylo will either die or turn good.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Orbert on February 02, 2018, 01:03:09 PM
I guess.  It's not a rule that the Star Wars saga has to be The Skywalker Family saga.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Adami on February 02, 2018, 01:04:58 PM
I guess.  It's not a rule that the Star Wars saga has to be The Skywalker Family saga.

It mostly is. I just don't think EVERYTHING has to be. Ren is still kind of a skywalker. I don't think Rey needs anyone important.

In fact, one of the best things, I feel, about TLJ was saying that Rey's parents were nobodies.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: kaos2900 on February 02, 2018, 01:31:33 PM
I had a post a while back stating that I felt that Kylo's ark really is primary one in this trilogy. He's a Skywalker, and now with Luke and Leia gone he's the last Skywalker. We know that Episode 9 is the final film in the Skywalker saga so it would make sense that Kylo dies and the Skywalker line goes extinct. Rey will probably be responsible for the Jedi 2.0 so to speak and the galaxy moves on to a time of relative peace as it was prior to the Clone Wars.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Cool Chris on February 02, 2018, 01:33:05 PM
We know that Episode 9 is the final film in the Skywalker saga...

Funny. In 1983 we knew that Episode 6 was the final film in the Skywalker saga.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: lordxizor on February 02, 2018, 02:09:51 PM
I think the core saga should be about the Skywalker's. If Ben Solo dies in 9, it should end. That doesn't mean there can't be more movies with Rey restarting the Jedi order or something. They just shouldn't be "Episodes".
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Orbert on February 02, 2018, 09:05:06 PM
Also Orbert, it's a Porg, not a Puffin. This is important.
Same genus, different species.  They all taste exactly the same.

Oh, come on!  Nobody?

Too obscure, I guess.  That's a quote from ALF.  Oh well.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: jingle.boy on February 02, 2018, 09:55:11 PM
Also Orbert, it's a Porg, not a Puffin. This is important.
Same genus, different species.  They all taste exactly the same.

Oh, come on!  Nobody?

Too obscure, I guess.  That's a quote from ALF.  Oh well.

Don't worry Bob, no one will judge you for that either.   :lol
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: BlobVanDam on February 04, 2018, 05:59:55 PM
I don't know why they wasted time on that teaser if they're releasing a full trailer tomorrow. They really need to come out of the gate with all they've got on this, because this does nothing at all to give me confidence yet. On the plus side, there's nothing bad in there, but there's just kind of nothing. Very little shown of Han yet, very little of the Falcon (I can't even tell if those leaked promo images were true or not). Lando still managed to steal the show with his one shot though. :lol
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Orbert on February 04, 2018, 07:23:43 PM
Saw the Solo trailer tonight during the Super Bowl.  Didn't hear it, just saw it.  I was working out and had my iPod on while watching the game.

Looked like a Star Wars movie.  Sounded like Chicago at Carnegie Hall.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Phoenix87x on February 04, 2018, 08:21:33 PM
Looks really cool.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Adami on February 04, 2018, 09:46:45 PM
Looks really cool.

I mean, the effects looked cool. The trailer didn't look like anything at all. Just a bunch of establishing shots.

Did anyone expect bad effects and visuals?

But this is a trailer for the trailer tomorrow? I dunno. Obviously that one will include more.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: BlobVanDam on February 04, 2018, 10:16:58 PM
I find it hard to get excited about nothing but CGI and a few glancing shots of characters. My last concern on a big budget Hollywood movie is the visuals.
Should I be concerned how little they showed of the main character given the reports of so many reshoots and needing an acting coach? I don't even know yet. Am I going to be able to sit through this movie for two hours and pretend this dude is Han Solo? No idea. A teaser doesn't show enough to address those concerns. This doesn't even get me excited about seeing the full trailer.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Polarbear on February 05, 2018, 12:51:45 AM
Looked cool on first glance! But let's judge this thing tomorrow when we have the full trailer..

I'm wondering though, where in the timeline this takes place?

Falcon looks really clean inside, and Han looks like barely a teenager.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: BlobVanDam on February 05, 2018, 12:59:05 AM
Looked cool on first glance! But let's judge this thing tomorrow when we have the full trailer..

I'm wondering though, where in the timeline this takes place?

Falcon looks really clean inside, and Han looks like barely a teenager.

Alden Ehrenreich is about 7 years younger than Harrison Ford was for ANH, so maybe 5-10 years before ANH. The movie may not be that specific about it.
I'm pretty sure Han wins the Falcon in this movie (along with every other bit of backstory they could shoehorn in), so I guess it was either new or well kept before Han got his hands on it and started smuggling.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: BlobVanDam on February 05, 2018, 07:04:26 AM
Well, the full trailer did not make any difference. I'm not feeling that this is Han Solo, and the Falcon isn't even the familiar design from the OT (but I guess they needed new merch to sell to the kiddies). Didn't see any dialogue from Lando either. The start of the trailer was just a massive WTF and I thought it was a joke at first. The rest was eh.
I'll be seeing the movie anyway, but I'm expecting it to be very average.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Logain Ablar on February 05, 2018, 07:20:51 AM
Hmmm, I'm not feeling it either. From what I've seen so far I think it will be an uphill battle to convince people that this guy is Han Solo.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: BlobVanDam on February 05, 2018, 07:28:39 AM
That was always going to be a problem from the moment this film was announced, which is why many people have not been too happy about it happening at all.
Wanna bet the action sequence at the end of the trailer is Han doing the Kessel run?
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: gmillerdrake on February 05, 2018, 07:43:38 AM
Hmmm, I'm not feeling it either. From what I've seen so far I think it will be an uphill battle to convince people that this guy is Han Solo.

The only way itíll even be close is if this dude was able to capture Harrison Fords mannerisms and speech patterns that he used portraying Han. IF he did that then thatíd be easier to digest him as young Han. I just donít see how one could pull that off though......Han is so Iconic that itís a near impossible task.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Logain Ablar on February 05, 2018, 07:58:13 AM
Definitely "iconic" is the word for such a character.

I'm not sure what choice the filmmakers had - you either get someone to do a good impersonation of Harrison Ford, maybe like that guy from Age of Adaline, but who possibly isn't that great of an actor. Or, you get someone else with their own style, but with an equal amount of charm and charisma.

I don't think we got either of those things in that trailer. Still, time will tell..
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Adami on February 05, 2018, 08:00:48 AM
That somehow looked worse than the initial teaser trailer.


In the initial teaser, that shot of the star destroyer in the whatever vortex looking thing was really cool, but the expanded scene of it was just silly and over the top.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: BlobVanDam on February 05, 2018, 08:04:27 AM
Definitely "iconic" is the word for such a character.

I'm not sure what choice the filmmakers had - you either get someone to do a good impersonation of Harrison Ford, maybe like that guy from Age of Adaline, but who possibly isn't that great of an actor. Or, you get someone else with their own style, but with an equal amount of charm and charisma.

I don't think we got either of those things in that trailer. Still, time will tell..

After this trailer, plus the reports of them bringing in an acting coach for Alden, I'm kinda wishing they'd gone with the lookalike. I don't think Harrison Ford's acting was all that great in the OT, so at least give me someone who looks the part.
Alden Ehrenreich is definitely in a no-win position here though, so it was always going to be a tough sell for audiences. Play it too close, and people will say you're impersonating. Stray too far, and people won't accept you playing the part.

That somehow looked worse than the initial teaser trailer.


In the initial teaser, that shot of the star destroyer in the whatever vortex looking thing was really cool, but the expanded scene of it was just silly and over the top.

The whole Fast and Furious section didn't help either.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Polarbear on February 05, 2018, 08:40:34 AM
I generally liked what I saw, in the trailer.

But there is something that feels off from Ehrenreich's portrayal of Han in this trailer. He doesn't sound like Han at all. There are some vague similarities, which really makes me wonder where in the timeline this takes place? I can sort off buy him as a 18 year old Han, but any older than that and it start's to be on really shaky ground.

I don't envy Ehrenreich in the position that he's in. He is sure as hell going to get trashed by a certain corner of the fanbase.

But again, i liked what I saw! Shame Donald Glover didn't have any lines in this trailer..
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: lordxizor on February 05, 2018, 08:52:30 AM
I liked what I saw, but trailers don't usually tell a whole lot about the quality of the film. As with others, I'll see this, but don't have high expectations.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Cool Chris on February 05, 2018, 08:55:16 AM
That almost looked like a parody, as if Seth McFarland or someone made a mock trailer of a movie no one would actually make.

Ehrenreich (I'm never going to learn how to spell that so it's going to be CTRL-C/V for me) seemed alright. Having someone do an impersonation is never going to work in a situation like this. DeNiro didn't do an impression of Brando in Godfather II. He incorporated a few mannerisms, but he it was largely his own role, and no one ever said "He doesn't look/act enough like Brando!"

The biggest weakness will probably be the story. Rogue One had a story to tell, regardless if you think it was told well. What's the story here?
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: jingle.boy on February 05, 2018, 09:20:10 AM
Ewan McGregor worked his ass off to come across as a legitimate young Obi-Wan - studying/practicing Sir Alec for months to get his tone, accent, inflections, mannerisms etc...  I know it's only a couple of minutes, but I get NONE of that here.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: kaos2900 on February 05, 2018, 09:48:56 AM
I like the tone and grittiness of the trailer. Very similar to Rogue One. I have the same concerns about the actor portraying Han. I agree with whoever said that if this is 18-20 year old Han the experiences in this film may make him the character we see in Episode IV so I'm not expecting a 100% Ford impersonation. I have low expectations which mean I'll probably love it.  ;)
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Architeuthis on February 05, 2018, 10:48:45 AM
I was hoping to hear Jabba's laugh at the very end of that trailer as the screen goes black for a moment.. 
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: lordxizor on February 05, 2018, 11:55:28 AM
If Jabba's in it I hope he's a giant giant rubber slug with two dudes inside and not CGI.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: lordxizor on February 05, 2018, 11:57:45 AM
I really hope they don't try to cram too much into one movie. We don't need to learn how he met Chewie, won the Falcon, met Lando, and did the kessel run all in one film, but I think that's what we're going to get. Not that I necessarily wanted them to plan on a Solo trilogy right off the bat, either...
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Adami on February 05, 2018, 12:11:55 PM
I really hope they don't try to cram too much into one movie. We don't need to learn how he met Chewie, won the Falcon, met Lando, and did the kessel run all in one film, but I think that's what we're going to get. Not that I necessarily wanted them to plan on a Solo trilogy right off the bat, either...

All of that plus how he got his name.




Honestly if they ditched Chewie and Lando, redid the ship as the Outider, and changed his name to Dash Rendar, youíd have something.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Orbert on February 05, 2018, 01:04:00 PM
I really hope they don't try to cram too much into one movie. We don't need to learn how he met Chewie, won the Falcon, met Lando, and did the kessel run all in one film, but I think that's what we're going to get.

I would think that that's exactly what we're going to get.  But if you think about it, they should be able to include those four things in a movie without it feeling overpacked.  A couple of well-scripted scenes each would cover each of the first three, and the Kessel Run could be the big "action" sequence.  Throw in a couple of scenes with him smuggling and evading the Empire bad guys, and you've got a movie.  I'm saying that that they can do it, but I think it's possible, and those are the four things I'm pretty sure most fans would want to see. 
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: bosk1 on February 05, 2018, 01:19:03 PM
I think it would make for a better movie if they included all those things EXCEPT for the Kessel run, and just either alluded to it or left it dangling at the end, something like:  Final scene is Han has to smuggle something really important, and has an impossibly short time to do it or there will be bad consequences, and he is being warned that NOBODY could possibly do it, and he smugly says, "Never tell me the odds," and the movie just ends at that point, or something like that.  Yeah, fans would probably rage endlessly about "WE NEVER ACTUALLY GOT TO SEE HAN DO THE KESSEL RUN!"  But who cares?  It would be a better film.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Architeuthis on February 05, 2018, 01:20:41 PM
If Jabba's in it I hope he's a giant giant rubber slug with two dudes inside and not CGI.
Agreed 100%
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: jammindude on February 05, 2018, 06:06:37 PM
We know that Episode 9 is the final film in the Skywalker saga...

Funny. In 1983 we knew that Episode 6 was the final film in the Skywalker saga.

Not really.   George himself stated around the time of ESB that he had 3 trilogies in his head....9 movies altogether.  He just decided he was sick of doing it after RotJ.   Then he went back to the prequels for a giant payday, and then ultimately decided he just wasn't going to tell the final 3 stories.    Then, after he sold out, he did submit his original ideas to (not sure if it was Disney or JJ, but one of the two), but we're still not sure how much they used and how much they threw away.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Cool Chris on February 05, 2018, 11:19:29 PM
I was being a little flippant, but I am not sure how many people knew all of that about Lucas in 1983. I don't think I knew any of that in 1993.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: jingle.boy on February 06, 2018, 05:33:37 AM
I was being a little flippant, but I am not sure how many people knew all of that about Lucas in 1983. I don't think I knew any of that in 1993.

I thought it was pretty common knowledge. 
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Orbert on February 06, 2018, 06:59:39 AM
That's how I remember it, too.  The first Star Wars film was just Star Wars.  Then for some reason, it was "Episode IV -- A New Hope".  George explained that it's really the first of a trilogy, and that there will be nine "episodes" altogether, a trilogy of trilogies if you will.  Then after the prequel trilogies sucked, he said that there was only ever going to be six episodes.  I think I read at least one thing where he specifically denied ever saying that there would be nine, that it was always six.  The public is stupid and memory is fallible, but not everybody just forgot what you said before, George.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: BlobVanDam on February 06, 2018, 07:04:28 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4UGV7WVB-bA
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Orbert on February 06, 2018, 07:14:32 AM
Nice find!  I've never seen that before, but it all fits.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Accelerando on February 06, 2018, 01:32:45 PM
Every frame weíve gotten of Donald Glover as Lando is the suavest space shit I ever seen!
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Adami on February 06, 2018, 01:36:58 PM
Every frame weíve gotten of Donald Glover as Lando is the suavest space shit I ever seen!

I'm pretty sure he is the one aspect of this movie that no one is the least bit worried about.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: cramx3 on February 06, 2018, 02:02:19 PM
http://www.ign.com/articles/2018/02/06/game-of-thrones-showrunners-to-write-produce-star-wars-movies (http://www.ign.com/articles/2018/02/06/game-of-thrones-showrunners-to-write-produce-star-wars-movies)

Interesting.  As much as I love the GoT show and admire the work those two did on it, I do wonder how much of that credit should go to GRRM, since once GRRM left the show, most would agree the writing went downhill.  But who knows, if they are going to do a totally different series in the universe, maybe these two could make it really interesting.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Logain Ablar on February 06, 2018, 02:45:36 PM
^

I was just going to post the same story. This is another set of movies, separate from the new trilogy given to Rian Johnston.

I wonder if these movies will be more hard edged, aimed at an older audience maybe? That would be very interesting.

http://www.starwars.com/news/game-of-thrones-creators-david-benioff-and-d-b-weiss-to-write-and-produce-a-new-series-of-star-wars-films
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Polarbear on February 06, 2018, 03:20:53 PM
I'm always happy to watch new Star Wars movies..

But two different trilogies, possibly running in theaters roughly at the same time?? That's to much.

Star Wars will lose the "Event film" quality, if they start to pump out movies at the same rate as Marvel.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: cramx3 on February 06, 2018, 03:29:46 PM
I'm always happy to watch new Star Wars movies..

But two different trilogies, possibly running in theaters roughly at the same time?? That's to much.

Star Wars will lose the "Event film" quality, if they start to pump out movies at the same rate as Marvel.

It kind of feels like it already has after TLJ.  Maybe I am wrong since I kind of live in my own bubble, but I didn't really experience the hype and fan craziness that the previous movies had.  It's already now been three years in a row with a SW movie. 
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: lordxizor on February 06, 2018, 03:38:46 PM
I can imagine Rian Johnson's trilogy and this series will alternate release years or something. More than one Star Wars movie a year is pushing it for me. Though if they're good I won't care much.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: gmillerdrake on February 06, 2018, 05:41:22 PM
I wonder if these movies will be more hard edged, aimed at an older audience maybe? That would be very interesting.

This. I love a Star Wars movie as the next guy but to keep it fresh and to keep from diluting the market I think in one of these iterations Kennedy has to give the green light to some gritty....dare I say R rated type Star Wars stories.

Release after Release of watered down stories for all may get old.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: BlobVanDam on February 06, 2018, 10:03:33 PM
I'm always happy to watch new Star Wars movies..

But two different trilogies, possibly running in theaters roughly at the same time?? That's to much.

Star Wars will lose the "Event film" quality, if they start to pump out movies at the same rate as Marvel.

It kind of feels like it already has after TLJ.  Maybe I am wrong since I kind of live in my own bubble, but I didn't really experience the hype and fan craziness that the previous movies had.  It's already now been three years in a row with a SW movie. 

Having TLJ and Han Solo only half a year apart is already wearing out the novelty for me. It will be interesting to see how Solo compares to Rogue One. I really doubt it will hit a billion like the other movies have.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: PowerSlave on February 06, 2018, 11:31:04 PM
I wonder if these movies will be more hard edged, aimed at an older audience maybe? That would be very interesting.

This. I love a Star Wars movie as the next guy but to keep it fresh and to keep from diluting the market I think in one of these iterations Kennedy has to give the green light to some gritty....dare I say R rated type Star Wars stories.

Release after Release of watered down stories for all may get old.

I don't think that Disney would allow that. I might be way off with this, but have they ever had an r-rated movie? I can't think of any, but I'm not a huge movie buff.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: jammindude on February 06, 2018, 11:40:57 PM
I wonder if these movies will be more hard edged, aimed at an older audience maybe? That would be very interesting.

This. I love a Star Wars movie as the next guy but to keep it fresh and to keep from diluting the market I think in one of these iterations Kennedy has to give the green light to some gritty....dare I say R rated type Star Wars stories.

Release after Release of watered down stories for all may get old.

I don't think that Disney would allow that. I might be way off with this, but have they ever had an r-rated movie? I can't think of any, but I'm not a huge movie buff.

Not under the Disney banner....but Disney has owned other studios that have. Touchstone probably being the most popular.   
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: BlobVanDam on February 07, 2018, 12:14:41 AM
I doubt that Disney would ever go that adult with a well known family franchise like Star Wars, even given this latest news. It will probably be a little bit darker than the main series, but still within their usual rating. They want to maximize their audience and profit.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: lordxizor on February 07, 2018, 06:13:32 AM
No way does Disney allow an R rated Star Wars movie. Not anytime soon anyway. A gritty PG-13, sure. They're leaving too much possible money on the table if they went R.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: cramx3 on February 07, 2018, 06:29:06 AM
No brothel scene in a future Star Wars?   :lol
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: kaos2900 on February 07, 2018, 07:31:59 AM
I would assume that there wouldn't be two star wars movies per year. If there are going to be two new trilogies at the same time it would make sense that a new film is released every December and the trilogies alternate years. There would always be something to look forward too. I don't see any negatives around this. It will be interesting to see what the two new series are based around. I hope one is about the old republic or the rise of the Jedi/Sith and the other is something new. The question I have is that if one of these series is something brand new in the Star Wars universe what things from the existing films need to stay around to make it Star Wars?
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: lordxizor on February 07, 2018, 11:07:31 AM
That's a good point. Does that fact that it's a space based sci-fi movie make it Star Wars, does there need to be Jedi or at least the mention of the force?
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: gmillerdrake on February 07, 2018, 11:17:30 AM
Personally, I will be disappointed if at least one of these new trilogies don't focus on or heavily include Jedi/Sith and Force users. The 'force' is what makes Star Wars IMO....without it or the Jedi/Sith it's just another sci fi story.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: TioJorge on February 08, 2018, 11:43:40 AM
While I understand the sentiment, I completely disagree and I think that Rogue One kind of proved that it absolutely could make at least a few films work (and flourish, if Rogue is any indication) while using very little Force aspects and little to zero use of the Jedi/Sith.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: BlobVanDam on February 08, 2018, 11:51:46 AM
For as long as people have the mindset that a Star Wars movie needs lightsabres, the force, Skywalkers etc, we're going to keep getting the same old regurgitated shit.
I love that Rogue One limited a lot of those elements, so they remain special and rare when used, rather than the TLJ approach of "everybody's special and can use the force now"
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: cramx3 on February 08, 2018, 12:02:20 PM
But if you take all that out, what makes it a Star Wars film? Just the location?  I'm not sure how I feel about it.  RO wasn't very good in my eyes, but it had nothing to do with a lesser amount of force/jedi.   They certainly could make a good movie in the universe without all that, but what's the point really?
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: BlobVanDam on February 08, 2018, 12:08:40 PM
There's a lot more to Star Wars than just light swords and magic. There's an entire universe of other ideas to explore. There are only so many times you can see the same few ideas before it gets stale.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: gmillerdrake on February 08, 2018, 12:09:31 PM
While I understand the sentiment, I completely disagree and I think that Rogue One kind of proved that it absolutely could make at least a few films work (and flourish, if Rogue is any indication) while using very little Force aspects and little to zero use of the Jedi/Sith.

But arguable the best part of RO was the ending sequence with Vadar....using the Force and his light saber.

I'm not saying EVERY SW Film has to have Force users and Sabers. I think there's plenty of story to be told. My petition is for at least one of the two separate Trilogy's that Disney has announced....to have Force Users/light sabers etc involved in it. Otherwise, these are just sci fi space movies with the Star Wars name attached to it.



Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: gmillerdrake on February 08, 2018, 12:11:14 PM
There's a lot more to Star Wars than light swords and magic. There's an entire universe of other ideas to explore. There are only so many times you can see the same few ideas before it gets stale.

If Clone Wars is any indication though......they've merely scratched the surface on what types of 'force' powers and light saber battles are possible.

Like I said, I think there's plenty of room for both. I don't think you can eliminate the force/saber stuff though.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: bosk1 on February 08, 2018, 12:21:44 PM
Honestly, I don't see what the issue is either way.  Just because the force and lightsabers are involved doesn't mean it's just rehashing the same old thing.  Not sure what your problem is with that, Blob, but people obviously enjoy the films.  If you don't, don't watch them.  Not sure where the hostility is coming from.

And on the flip side, if they want to do some standalone films in the SW universe that don't have anything to do with the force, that's cool too.  The "point" is that it is supposed to be an entire galaxy, so there is plenty of story to be told if they have some good ideas.  To use an example, thus far, Daredevil has had no crossover whatsoever that I am aware of with the Avengers-based Marvel Universe.  So what's the point of even telling that story and having it be Marvel?  The point is that it's a good story.  And it doesn't NEED to have the Avengers in it to be a good Marvel story. 
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: BlackInk on February 10, 2018, 03:29:48 AM
While I get that analogy, and mostly agree with it, I think the case could be made that it would be more like if Marvel did a movie/TV show without someone ĒspecialĒ fighting crime as the main plot. Itís sort of what they do. Like if they did a season of Daredevil with only legal drama, I think people would feel weird about them taking away the very thing that they come to Marvel movies for.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: gmillerdrake on February 10, 2018, 10:30:32 AM
While I get that analogy, and mostly agree with it, I think the case could be made that it would be more like if Marvel did a movie/TV show without someone ĒspecialĒ fighting crime as the main plot. Itís sort of what they do. Like if they did a season of Daredevil with only legal drama, I think people would feel weird about them taking away the very thing that they come to Marvel movies for.

Thatís kind of my point in a nut shell. SW captivated imaginations with the idea of the Force and some cool light saber battles/scenes. To remove those aspects completely from future movies just turns those movies into cool sci fi movies.

Iím not saying it wouldnít be cool to have separate stories unrelated to the Force/Jedi/with etc. certainly a huge universe to explore. But one of the upcoming trilogies HAS to be related to what captivated 98% of the audience in the first place.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Shadow Ninja 2.0 on February 10, 2018, 10:34:08 AM
Not commenting on Star Wars or anything, but honestly if Daredevil had just been Matt and Foggy trying to start a legal practice I probably would have liked the show more. :lol
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Orbert on February 15, 2018, 10:57:44 AM
How Star Wars The Last Jedi Should Have Ended (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rCB8DUGpYQQ)

I love these.  This one even addresses a few things the critics and fanboys had trouble with, which is extra fun.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Adami on February 15, 2018, 10:58:38 AM
How Star Wars The Last Jedi Should Have Ended (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rCB8DUGpYQQ)

I love these.  This one even addresses a few things the critics and fanboys had trouble with, which is extra fun.

The Ackbar stuff was hilarious.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Accelerando on February 15, 2018, 02:12:38 PM
ďDo you know what this is? ITS. A. TRAAAPPPP!!!Ē  :lol
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Adami on February 15, 2018, 02:20:36 PM
The beginning is actually really spot on. The First Order had no issues blowing up entire god damn planets on a whim, yet they will casually have an Abbot and Costello act with an x-wing fighter pilot? No, they're blowing him up on the spot.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Phoenix87x on February 15, 2018, 02:54:44 PM
I agree with the entire video. Would have strongly preferred that it went that way.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: BlackInk on February 15, 2018, 09:06:57 PM
Don't agree with everything, but yeah some of the stuff pretty decently addresses issues I had with the movie.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Adami on February 15, 2018, 11:37:04 PM
Don't agree with everything, but yeah some of the stuff pretty decently addresses issues I had with the movie.

You don't agree with Kylo on the toilet? Psht.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: BlackInk on February 16, 2018, 12:34:51 AM
It offends me greatly.  :censored
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: TheOutlawXanadu on February 22, 2018, 08:19:04 AM
Honestly, I don't see what the issue is either way.  Just because the force and lightsabers are involved doesn't mean it's just rehashing the same old thing.  Not sure what your problem is with that, Blob, but people obviously enjoy the films.  If you don't, don't watch them.  Not sure where the hostility is coming from.

And on the flip side, if they want to do some standalone films in the SW universe that don't have anything to do with the force, that's cool too.  The "point" is that it is supposed to be an entire galaxy, so there is plenty of story to be told if they have some good ideas.  To use an example, thus far, Daredevil has had no crossover whatsoever that I am aware of with the Avengers-based Marvel Universe.  So what's the point of even telling that story and having it be Marvel?  The point is that it's a good story.  And it doesn't NEED to have the Avengers in it to be a good Marvel story. 

I think that Star Wars will always face an uphill battle when it comes to originality versus tradition.

Go too far in one direction and you lose the magic. For example, it sounded like the Han Solo movie was going to be a slapstick comedy in the Star Wars universe. I think that would have reduced Star Wars to merely a setting and missed the point a bit. Star Wars is way more than just a universe to do random stuff in. You need adventure, characters, a hint of seriousness, etc.

On the other hand, I also think that if you repeat yourself too much, things start to feel pointless. For example, while I enjoyed The Last Jedi, I also feel like we're right back to where we were during the original trilogy. It's the Rebels / Resistance versus the Empire / First Order for all the marbles. The more the same conflict happens, the less significant each trilogy seems, at least to me. That said, Episode IX could do something crazy and send us on a whole new course. I'm excited to see what happens.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: kaos2900 on February 22, 2018, 09:25:34 AM
Anyone watch the new episodes of Rebels? Sad that there are only 4 episodes left but I'm excited to see how they conclude the series.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: gmillerdrake on February 22, 2018, 09:43:00 AM
Anyone watch the new episodes of Rebels? Sad that there are only 4 episodes left but I'm excited to see how they conclude the series.

I'm anxiously awaiting Rebels to hit Netflix or another streaming service. By the time I and my kiddos got in to Clone Wars, Rebels had already been on for a couple seasons so we were behind. We'll just have to wait for the series to hit streaming.....
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: bosk1 on February 22, 2018, 09:50:59 AM
I still haven't finished Clone Wars.  Every time I start, I forget where I left off.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: BlackInk on February 23, 2018, 01:08:59 AM
Surprise and impressed by the latest Rebels.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Phoenix87x on February 25, 2018, 01:26:52 PM
'Star Wars: The Last Jedi' Novel Opens With a Line About Luke Skywalker's Wife

http://comicbook.com/starwars/2018/02/25/star-wars-the-last-jedi-novel-lukes-wife/

Wut... 
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: BlobVanDam on February 25, 2018, 10:33:19 PM
Hm, interesting. Since this isn't in the movie, I bet JJ will just ignore it, since they don't have any overarching plan.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: gmillerdrake on February 26, 2018, 09:47:19 AM
so NOW we know the real reason as to why Luke marooned himself on an island, not to be found. He was F'n married and hiding from his nag of a wife.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Adami on February 26, 2018, 09:47:54 AM
so NOW we know the real reason as to why Luke marooned himself on an island, not to be found. He was F'n married and hiding from his nag of a wife.

Maybe that was his wife on the beach with the milk?

MIND BLOWN!
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: jingle.boy on February 26, 2018, 10:08:36 AM
so NOW we know the real reason as to why Luke marooned himself on an island, not to be found. He was F'n married and hiding from his nag of a wife.

Maybe that was his wife on the beach with the milk?

MIND BLOWN!

And the Porg's are their offspring?
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: bosk1 on February 26, 2018, 10:10:08 AM
so NOW we know the real reason as to why Luke marooned himself on an island, not to be found. He was F'n married and hiding from his nag of a wife.

Maybe that was his wife on the beach with the milk?

MIND BLOWN!

And the Porg's are their offspring?

Is that even in question?
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Polarbear on February 27, 2018, 11:45:07 AM
Did anybody catch the two latest Rebels episodes?

SPOILERS!!

In the episode, Ezra goes into a Jedi temple and ends up in a "world between worlds". Basically it is a time travel conduit of the "cosmic force" or whatever. And he uses the conduit to save Ahsoka from her duel against Vader.

It was weird. Not sure how I feel about time travel being possible in Star Wars..
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: kaos2900 on February 28, 2018, 12:24:20 PM
Did anybody catch the two latest Rebels episodes?

SPOILERS!!

In the episode, Ezra goes into a Jedi temple and ends up in a "world between worlds". Basically it is a time travel conduit of the "cosmic force" or whatever. And he uses the conduit to save Ahsoka from her duel against Vader.

It was weird. Not sure how I feel about time travel being possible in Star Wars..

Just watched last night. I think the idea is interesting and opens a ton of possible scenarios going forward. I'm cool with it.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: BlackInk on March 01, 2018, 11:39:56 PM
Iím also not sure what to think. ĒWhoever controls it, controls the universeĒ, is almost so big it becomes silly. Gaining control of this temple should have been the main focus of every single movie and TV show if that was the case. Also, what stops the Emperor from just getting in there? The episode clearly demonstrated that he knew how to do it.

It was a cool inclusion, but I think it was a bit overly ambitions and didnít make much sense. Glad Ashoka is back, though.

I also freaked out a bit when I heard Reyís voice.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Accelerando on March 07, 2018, 03:49:47 AM
That was a nice wrap up to Rebels, and it actually opened up to MORE Star Wars stories to be explored in other mediuns, maybe a movie!

Captain Rex fighting with the Rebel alliance in the OT timeline is HUGE!
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Polarbear on March 07, 2018, 04:35:26 AM
Finale episode was solid. I'm not sure what to think of Ahsoka and Ezra? surviving the Original Trilogy era. "When gone am I, the last of the Jedi you will be". Beside Luke, there is at least one and possibly two other surviving Jedi. That seems like a retcon to me.

And the finale leaves little doubt in my mind, that the next animated series takes place between RoTJ and TFA. Ahsoka and Sabine are searching for Ezra. We get to see the rise and fall of Luke's academy, and the origins of the First Order.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: BlackInk on March 07, 2018, 05:45:20 AM
I think Yoda just didnít know about the others. Heís powerful, but heís not all-knowing.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: kaos2900 on March 07, 2018, 07:19:44 AM
Finale episode was solid. I'm not sure what to think of Ahsoka and Ezra? surviving the Original Trilogy era. "When gone am I, the last of the Jedi you will be". Beside Luke, there is at least one and possibly two other surviving Jedi. That seems like a retcon to me.

And the finale leaves little doubt in my mind, that the next animated series takes place between RoTJ and TFA. Ahsoka and Sabine are searching for Ezra. We get to see the rise and fall of Luke's academy, and the origins of the First Order.

I would be down for that show. Sabine was easily my favorite character from Rebels and Ahsoka is an amazing character as well.

Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: gmillerdrake on March 07, 2018, 08:28:28 AM
Ahsoka is an amazing character as well.

Disney HAS to find a way to 'educate' the average Star Wars fan who doesn't know her character to where they can make a stand alone movie centered around her. I've yet to watch Rebels.....but have seen clips on youtube of her appearances.....but I plan to watch the series. But, I'm sure there's plenty of things they could do with her story that haven't been explored.

Has anyone read the book that was written about her? I've thought about getting it and reading it.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: bosk1 on March 07, 2018, 08:30:20 AM
I don't think anyone "needs" to be educated about a cartoon character.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: BlobVanDam on March 07, 2018, 08:36:09 AM
I don't think anyone "needs" to be educated about a cartoon character.

That.
And there's little Disney can do to make a character from a cartoon spinoff recognizable/bankable enough for a standalone movie. Too niche for the average SW fan (like me), and there are many more obvious side movies worth making first.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Adami on March 07, 2018, 08:38:08 AM
Can we finally get a 3 hour spin off movie about how the Sarlack digests people for 1000 years?
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: gmillerdrake on March 07, 2018, 08:55:40 AM
I don't think anyone "needs" to be educated about a cartoon character.

And there's little Disney can do to make a character from a cartoon spinoff recognizable/bankable enough for a standalone movie. Too niche for the average SW fan (like me), and there are many more obvious side movies worth making first.

I think that character would be incredible to explore. Far more enjoyable than say a Boba Fett or other ancillary character that was 'cool' merely because of his costume. If done correctly they could make a solid 2 plus hour movie about Ahsoka where you wouldn't need to be 'educated' about who she is to still enjoy the movie and leave loving her character.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: bosk1 on March 07, 2018, 09:13:08 AM
Yes, she probably is a much "better" or more compelling character than, say, Boba Fett.  But that misses the point.  There isn't likely a big enough market for her character to justify a movie, nor is there likely to be even if she were marketed to the general public.  Disney has a pretty careful plan for Star Wars, and they aren't going to screw it up by making something that wouldn't have a market.  The market is getting somewhat "saturated" by having a film every year or so, and I would expect that to continue through about 2025 or so.  By then, I think people will be tired of Star Wars, unless the franchise takes on a new direction in the next trilogy that people find REALLY compelling.  But otherwise, they will make a TON of money for the next 6-8 years, and then likely let it die down for awhile before doing anything new.  And in terms of marketing strategy, they're golden by doing that.  Again, they will have made a ton from the films themselves.  They will also have had Star Wars lands up and running for awhile in their parks.  The combination will have a whole new generation of Star Wars fans locked in and loving the franchise, which will sell merchandise pretty steadily for at least another decade beyond that.  So, they don't need to take a risk on a character like Ahsoka for a film.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: gmillerdrake on March 07, 2018, 09:59:44 AM
Yes, she probably is a much "better" or more compelling character than, say, Boba Fett.  But that misses the point.  There isn't likely a big enough market for her character to justify a movie, nor is there likely to be even if she were marketed to the general public.  Disney has a pretty careful plan for Star Wars, and they aren't going to screw it up by making something that wouldn't have a market.  The market is getting somewhat "saturated" by having a film every year or so, and I would expect that to continue through about 2025 or so.  By then, I think people will be tired of Star Wars, unless the franchise takes on a new direction in the next trilogy that people find REALLY compelling.  But otherwise, they will make a TON of money for the next 6-8 years, and then likely let it die down for awhile before doing anything new.  And in terms of marketing strategy, they're golden by doing that.  Again, they will have made a ton from the films themselves.  They will also have had Star Wars lands up and running for awhile in their parks.  The combination will have a whole new generation of Star Wars fans locked in and loving the franchise, which will sell merchandise pretty steadily for at least another decade beyond that.  So, they don't need to take a risk on a character like Ahsoka for a film.

I completely agree with what you're saying and understand that her character is a risk. It's just a bummer to think about being that it's such a cool character. Wonder if they'd consider another animated series based around her 'lost' years or something? Seems like such a waste to NOT do something with her.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: gmillerdrake on March 07, 2018, 10:01:50 AM
But otherwise, they will make a TON of money for the next 6-8 years, and then likely let it die down for awhile before doing anything new. 

do you think they'd ever re-boot the original story.....start from the beginning and redo Episodes 1 thru 6? Say in, fifteen....twenty years?
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: lordxizor on March 07, 2018, 10:06:42 AM
I hope they don't do that. They're much better off starting a whole new saga in the Star Wars universe than redoing the original one. But, once George Lucas is dead and gone and the money and ideas are drying up a bit for new Star Wars films, it's not outside the realm of possibility that they would do a complete reboot.

Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: bosk1 on March 07, 2018, 10:09:37 AM
She's a cool character.  But she has gotten great character treatment in The Clone Wars.  I'm not sure we really "need" more in any format.  I'm not against it.  I'm just saying I don't see the need.

Going back to Boba Fett, that really is an interesting case.  There is no real reason he should have been so popular, other than George decreed it.  I remember the hype way back even before Empire was released, and he was a limited edition action figure that you could ONLY get by mailing in so many proofs of purchase from other action figures.  Nobody knew ANYTHING about the character at that point.  But he was suddenly mysterious and cool just because he was advertised as being mysterious and cool.  Then Empire came out sometime later, and we were prepared for him to be mysterious and cool.  And since he didn't say or do anything to detract from that, he was still mysterious and cool.  Then ROTJ, where there really isn't any need for him to appear, but he is there.  ...and doesn't really do anything other than fail to recognize Lando, fail to shoot any good guys despite that Luke is the only one with a weapon, and then fall into a sarlaac pit. 

As far as rebooting, hard to say.  I really don't see the need or benefit.  It seems like there is FAR more potential risk than reward.  But that has never stopped studios in the past, so...  :dunno:  But what they really SHOULD do is a Bluray release of the original trilogy in their original versions, with only effects cleanups and no additional/changed scenes.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: kaos2900 on March 07, 2018, 10:17:08 AM
There is a new interview with Andy Serkis saying that Snoke's background was intentionally kept vague to keep the option open of doing a prequel. I'm going to assume that one of the new series is going to be at least 100 years before episode 1 and the other series will be after Episode 9. The new show(s) will be between episode 6 and 7.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: bosk1 on March 07, 2018, 10:19:05 AM
See, now THAT is something there is definitely a market for.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Cool Chris on March 07, 2018, 10:34:45 AM
I maintain the Snoke character was vague due to lazy writing.

But what they really SHOULD do is a Bluray release of the original trilogy in their original versions, with only effects cleanups and no additional/changed scenes.

This is problematic because one person's "effects cleanups" are another person's unnecessary changes. You might want Luke's Landspeeder vaseline effect fixed up, someone else might not. If you are going to ask for the "Original Trilogy" doesn't it need to be the original theatrical prints (if they even still exist)?
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Architeuthis on March 07, 2018, 10:57:13 AM
[quote author=bosk1 link=topic=51448.msg2412898#msg2412898 date=1520442577  But what they really SHOULD do is a Bluray release of the original trilogy in their original versions, with only effects cleanups and no additional/changed scenes.
[/quote]
THIS THIS THIS!  I think that's what every SW purist wants, including myself. I have no doubt there would be a huge market for that. The revamped versions are disastrous imo, especially ROTJ.  The originals need to be released on modern digital format.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: bosk1 on March 07, 2018, 11:13:00 AM
I maintain the Snoke character was vague due to lazy writing.

But what they really SHOULD do is a Bluray release of the original trilogy in their original versions, with only effects cleanups and no additional/changed scenes.

This is problematic because one person's "effects cleanups" are another person's unnecessary changes. You might want Luke's Landspeeder vaseline effect fixed up, someone else might not. If you are going to ask for the "Original Trilogy" doesn't it need to be the original theatrical prints (if they even still exist)?

I am almost positive I heard that they exist.  And I would be fine with them being released as-is.  The first reissue that Lucas did is more in line with what I am talking about.  Cleaning up effects, but not altering scenes.  So, yeah, fixing the landspeeder effect, cleaning up the lightsabers in IV, and so on--yes.  Making Greedo shoot first, adding characters to scenes for a big "dance number," and the like--no.  Yeah, there's some subjectivity there, but you are less likely to have a significant portion of the fan base upset with a release like that than ones altering the actual content of scenes.  The one thing I would subjectively miss from limiting it that way is the augmenting of a few of the scenes in ANH to just make the scope of them "bigger" (Mos Eisley, more fighters in the battle of Yavin), but that's okay.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Cool Chris on March 07, 2018, 01:25:46 PM
I am not trying to argue. I just feel that if you do an "original trilogy" release, you have to 1) identify what you mean by "original" and 2) accept that whatever you do, you are only going to please a percentage of your market, and minimize those you are going to annoy.

I was a big mark for the "Special Editions" in 1997(?). I loved - almost - every minute of them. Even the Jedi Rocks bit didn't bother me. I was born in 76 so old enough to see Empire and Jedi in the theater, not quite old enough to remember it, but at the right age where everything Star Wars was cool, the action figures, the crappy Atari 2600 games..... So I did enjoy seeing SW on the big screen, even if it wasn't in their original form.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Architeuthis on March 07, 2018, 05:07:44 PM
Return Of The Jedi got ruined by the altered scenes. Especially in Jabba's palace, and the ending of the movie..
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Adami on March 07, 2018, 05:10:58 PM
I wish there was a DIY version.

Like, I'd keep all of the updated effects. I'd even keep the added x-wings and so forth. It doesn't negatively influence anything, just adds a bit more that they couldn't back then.

But I'd ditch a ton of them. The random changing of sounds or dialogue, the added dance scene, etc. Stuff that actually detracts from the movie.

Sadly that's not an option. It's either terrible additions, or terrible original effects etc.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Cool Chris on March 07, 2018, 05:27:41 PM
I actually liked the changes to the end of Jedi, and still do in some ways. The added visuals make it seem that the Rebellion had a greater purposes, it was bigger that Luke, Han, and Leia. The music change I still to this day don't have a definitive opinion.

A DIY option would actually be the awesomest thing ever. Until Youtube was flooded with people uploading theirs and proclaiming their version to be the best ever.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Accelerando on March 07, 2018, 05:36:27 PM
I really like the change to Empire where after Vader tells Luke that he is his father, Luke jumps and doesnít scream. I  feel like it added an emotional weight with nothing coming from Luke...as if he gave up and fully intended to commit suicide... I dunno, but thatís a change I do really like. What is everyoneís thoughts on that particular moment?
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: BlackInk on March 07, 2018, 09:02:39 PM
Wasn't aware that there was a scream at one point. I agree that the moment seems to be more powerful without it.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Cool Chris on March 07, 2018, 09:07:30 PM
I honestly couldn't remember if the scream was original or added on. I was always bothered by how silly he looked ending up sliding in to that shaft.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Phoenix87x on March 08, 2018, 02:13:42 AM
In the original theatrical release, he didn't scream

For the 97 special edition, the scream was added

Any version after that, it was removed.

I grew up with the scream, so its natural to me, but I think its better without it. As far as empire goes and its changes I am not down with hearing Mr. New Zealand when Boba fett speaks. I much prefer the original actors voice.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: BlackInk on March 08, 2018, 03:53:45 AM
Just purely for the sake of internal consistency I like the changed Boba Fett voice. I donít really have a preference when it comes to the sound itself.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: jingle.boy on March 08, 2018, 12:11:54 PM
Just purely for the sake of internal consistency I like the changed Boba Fett voice. I donít really have a preference when it comes to the sound itself.

Same thing with the change in the Emperor's hologram.  The original is kinda bad actually.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Adami on March 08, 2018, 12:16:52 PM
Just purely for the sake of internal consistency I like the changed Boba Fett voice. I donít really have a preference when it comes to the sound itself.

Same thing with the change in the Emperor's hologram.  The original is kinda bad actually.

Exactly. It's a shame that if we want the new hologram and updated light saber effects, we also need a big song and dance number that no one likes. I mean, maybe Staler loves it, I dunno.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: jammindude on March 08, 2018, 01:05:41 PM
Anyone see the news today about Jon Favoreu (sp?) writing and producing a SW series?

Iím assuming they mean a TV series...

Very interesting.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: gmillerdrake on March 08, 2018, 01:21:02 PM
Anyone see the news today about Jon Favoreu (sp?) writing and producing a SW series?

Iím assuming they mean a TV series...

Very interesting.

Yeah. I saw that. Not a lot of detail in it though....just that he was going to be involved in a SW series.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: jingle.boy on March 09, 2018, 05:29:19 AM
And that it's gonna be exclusive to Disney's streaming service.  Guess I'll never (legally) see it.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: BlobVanDam on March 09, 2018, 05:47:27 AM
Oh, they're pulling that shit too? I guess that's the new trend.

Won't stop me checking it out, but obviously they're not getting a cent out of it.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: kaos2900 on March 09, 2018, 07:02:35 AM
Yeah because god forbid we actually pay for content that we want to enjoy.  ::)
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: BlackInk on March 09, 2018, 07:56:17 AM
More like god forbid we pay full price for 20 different services when what we really want access to is only an outrageous minority of their actual content.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: lordxizor on March 09, 2018, 09:07:59 AM
Pay for one month, binge on everything you want to see, then cancel. Not that big of a deal.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: TheOutlawXanadu on March 13, 2018, 12:12:13 PM
Pay for one month, binge on everything you want to see, then cancel. Not that big of a deal.

Yup, this is my strategy with HBO Now once a year when Game of Thrones comes out. I wait until most of the episodes are available, then pay $15 for a month of streaming.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: MirrorMask on March 17, 2018, 04:33:00 PM
So.... I finally saw The Last Jedi. I liked it!

I've read online, not in detail of course, about controversies on Luke Skywalker. What exactly was wrong with him? the choice to have made him run away from it all was already made in the first movie. The reasons are belieavable - shame for not being able to help his sister's son and for having pondered to kill him. It's only obvious that he's reluctant to help Rey, and in the end he still trains her. Then shows up like a total badass to buy time to the resistance (the dusting off from this shoulder and "Every word you said was wrong" are kickass moments) and dies peacefully at "home". What was so horribly wrong about this?

For the rest of the movie, they still riffed a bit here and there from the original trilogy. Snoke was good but we've already seen a disfigured ruler being a master of manipulation. At least the "kill the master not for good but to take his place" twist was nice.

Another thing they kinda took from Empire Strikes Back is the confusing timeline. The chase of the rebels seemed pretty straightforward to me, in the time it took the First Order to follow them through lightspeed and fire at them while they were on low fuel Finn went to the casino and Rey took forever to convince Luke to train him?

Oh, and I also assume we're supposed to absolutely and totally not believe at all in any kind of way that Rey's parents were nobodies, am I right?

btw, I teared up at the end with the dedication to "Our princess Carrie Fisher"
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: jammindude on March 17, 2018, 04:36:48 PM
So.... I finally saw The Last Jedi. I liked it!

I've read online, not in detail of course, about controversies on Luke Skywalker. What exactly was wrong with him? the choice to have made him run away from it all was already made in the first movie. The reasons are belieavable - shame for not being able to help his sister's son and for having pondered to kill him. It's only obvious that he's reluctant to help Rey, and in the end he still trains her. Then shows up like a total badass to buy time to the resistance (the dusting off from this shoulder and "Every word you said was wrong" are kickass moments) and dies peacefully at "home". What was so horribly wrong about this?

For the rest of the movie, they still riffed a bit here and there from the original trilogy. Snoke was good but we've already seen a disfigured ruler being a master of manipulation. At least the "kill the master not for good but to take his place" twist was nice.

Another thing they kinda took from Empire Strikes Back is the confusing timeline. The chase of the rebels seemed pretty straightforward to me, in the time it took the First Order to follow them through lightspeed and fire at them while they were on low fuel Finn went to the casino and Rey took forever to convince Luke to train him?

Oh, and I also assume we're supposed to absolutely and totally not believe at all in any kind of way that Rey's parents were nobodies, am I right?

btw, I teared up at the end with the dedication to "Our princess Carrie Fisher"

I'm always amazed when someone is literally point for point with me on all of this.   The Last Jedi is actually REALLY good, and I just don't get the hate for it AT ALL.   
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: ariich on March 18, 2018, 01:44:00 AM
The argument that Luke wouldn't have run away and hid like that because he's a jedi are hilarious, because it's exactly what Yoda and Obi-Wan did in the original films.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Polarbear on March 18, 2018, 04:26:28 AM
So.... I finally saw The Last Jedi. I liked it!

I've read online, not in detail of course, about controversies on Luke Skywalker. What exactly was wrong with him? the choice to have made him run away from it all was already made in the first movie. The reasons are belieavable - shame for not being able to help his sister's son and for having pondered to kill him. It's only obvious that he's reluctant to help Rey, and in the end he still trains her. Then shows up like a total badass to buy time to the resistance (the dusting off from this shoulder and "Every word you said was wrong" are kickass moments) and dies peacefully at "home". What was so horribly wrong about this?

For the rest of the movie, they still riffed a bit here and there from the original trilogy. Snoke was good but we've already seen a disfigured ruler being a master of manipulation. At least the "kill the master not for good but to take his place" twist was nice.

Another thing they kinda took from Empire Strikes Back is the confusing timeline. The chase of the rebels seemed pretty straightforward to me, in the time it took the First Order to follow them through lightspeed and fire at them while they were on low fuel Finn went to the casino and Rey took forever to convince Luke to train him?

Oh, and I also assume we're supposed to absolutely and totally not believe at all in any kind of way that Rey's parents were nobodies, am I right?

btw, I teared up at the end with the dedication to "Our princess Carrie Fisher"

I'm always amazed when someone is literally point for point with me on all of this.   The Last Jedi is actually REALLY good, and I just don't get the hate for it AT ALL.

I still believe that Rey is just a random orphan girl. Rian Johnson commented about this in an interview, saying something like: "Ren truly believes that she is just a nobody, but that isn't necessarily the whole truth". I'm paraphrasing, but I think that there is still some wiggle room in her origins, for JJ to play with.

Can't wait to get TLJ on blu ray! The making of documentary looks really interesting.

The argument that Luke wouldn't have run away and hid like that because he's a jedi are hilarious, because it's exactly what Yoda and Obi-Wan did in the original films.

The circumstances between Obi-Wan's and Luke's exile are eerily similar. Obi-Wan was directly responsible in the tragedy of Vader. And Luke is directly responsible for making Ren who he is.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: MirrorMask on March 18, 2018, 05:18:19 AM
The thought dawned on me right now, it could be a clever twist: maybe Kylo Ren was technically right in defining her parents as "nobodies", but maybe they were nobodies in the same sense that Yoda was an annoying goblin fooling around on Dagobah when Luke first met him.

Maybe Kylo Ren didn't see anything special about the parents, but they are somehow very important instead. Ok, Rey is one of the many force sensitive people in the universe, but to be so good and be drawn to Luke's saber there has to be something else more, right?
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: gmillerdrake on March 19, 2018, 09:10:30 AM
Random Thought:

Could we see a Force Ghost Battle between Luke and Snoke in the next movie? I have little doubt that Luke will appear as a Force Ghost....he almost has to show up for Rey in at least a scene ala how Obi Won did for Luke. But, with Yoda showing that Force Ghost's can still manipulate the physical world.....maybe Luke and Snoke have a spiritual brawl?
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: pg1067 on March 19, 2018, 10:16:46 AM
So.... I finally saw The Last Jedi. I liked it!

I've read online, not in detail of course, about controversies on Luke Skywalker. What exactly was wrong with him? the choice to have made him run away from it all was already made in the first movie. The reasons are belieavable - shame for not being able to help his sister's son and for having pondered to kill him. It's only obvious that he's reluctant to help Rey, and in the end he still trains her. Then shows up like a total badass to buy time to the resistance (the dusting off from this shoulder and "Every word you said was wrong" are kickass moments) and dies peacefully at "home". What was so horribly wrong about this?

For the rest of the movie, they still riffed a bit here and there from the original trilogy. Snoke was good but we've already seen a disfigured ruler being a master of manipulation. At least the "kill the master not for good but to take his place" twist was nice.

Another thing they kinda took from Empire Strikes Back is the confusing timeline. The chase of the rebels seemed pretty straightforward to me, in the time it took the First Order to follow them through lightspeed and fire at them while they were on low fuel Finn went to the casino and Rey took forever to convince Luke to train him?

Oh, and I also assume we're supposed to absolutely and totally not believe at all in any kind of way that Rey's parents were nobodies, am I right?

btw, I teared up at the end with the dedication to "Our princess Carrie Fisher"

I'm always amazed when someone is literally point for point with me on all of this.   The Last Jedi is actually REALLY good, and I just don't get the hate for it AT ALL.

Count me in as well.  I think you and I briefly discussed this on Facebook:  this is the problem when people decide ahead of time what a movie should be like or how a character should develop.  Judging a movie based on preconceptions is just silly.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: gmillerdrake on March 19, 2018, 10:52:25 AM
So.... I finally saw The Last Jedi. I liked it!

I've read online, not in detail of course, about controversies on Luke Skywalker. What exactly was wrong with him? the choice to have made him run away from it all was already made in the first movie. The reasons are belieavable - shame for not being able to help his sister's son and for having pondered to kill him. It's only obvious that he's reluctant to help Rey, and in the end he still trains her. Then shows up like a total badass to buy time to the resistance (the dusting off from this shoulder and "Every word you said was wrong" are kickass moments) and dies peacefully at "home". What was so horribly wrong about this?

For the rest of the movie, they still riffed a bit here and there from the original trilogy. Snoke was good but we've already seen a disfigured ruler being a master of manipulation. At least the "kill the master not for good but to take his place" twist was nice.

Another thing they kinda took from Empire Strikes Back is the confusing timeline. The chase of the rebels seemed pretty straightforward to me, in the time it took the First Order to follow them through lightspeed and fire at them while they were on low fuel Finn went to the casino and Rey took forever to convince Luke to train him?

Oh, and I also assume we're supposed to absolutely and totally not believe at all in any kind of way that Rey's parents were nobodies, am I right?

btw, I teared up at the end with the dedication to "Our princess Carrie Fisher"

I'm always amazed when someone is literally point for point with me on all of this.   The Last Jedi is actually REALLY good, and I just don't get the hate for it AT ALL.

Count me in as well.  I think you and I briefly discussed this on Facebook:  this is the problem when people decide ahead of time what a movie should be like or how a character should develop.  Judging a movie based on preconceptions is just silly.

Yeah. I've posted here when the movie first came out that my first viewing of TLJ I was underwhelmed....and it was largely due to the fact that the movie didn't fit in line with what I THOUGHT it should have. After I worked through that 'disappointment' I went back and watched it again and completely loved the movie. IMO it was really well done (outside of Mary Poppins Leia...hated that scene)
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: BlackInk on March 19, 2018, 10:54:12 AM
Count me in as well.  I think you and I briefly discussed this on Facebook:  this is the problem when people decide ahead of time what a movie should be like or how a character should develop.  Judging a movie based on preconceptions is just silly.

I'm not actually sure that's the problem. I mean, I don't feel like being surprised or movies taking them in directions they don't expect is necessarily something people generally dislike. But some movies do it better than others.

Of three big curve balls in this movie (1. Snoke's death 2. Luke's uninvolvment 3. Rey's parents), I liked two and disliked one. I don't think judging it on preconcieved notions are as big a problem as people who loved the movie want to make it.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: pg1067 on March 19, 2018, 11:03:18 AM
Count me in as well.  I think you and I briefly discussed this on Facebook:  this is the problem when people decide ahead of time what a movie should be like or how a character should develop.  Judging a movie based on preconceptions is just silly.

I'm not actually sure that's the problem. I mean, I don't feel like being surprised or movies taking them in directions they don't expect is necessarily something people generally dislike. But some movies do it better than others.

Of three big curve balls in this movie (1. Snoke's death 2. Luke's uninvolvment 3. Rey's parents), I liked two and disliked one. I don't think judging it on preconcieved notions are as big a problem as people who loved the movie want to make it.

You may be right that it's not the problem, but it sure seems like it based on what I've read (which admittedly is only a small handful of articles and social media comments).

Taking the three things you mentioned, why would anyone be disappointed with Snoke dying unless that person had built up in his/her head what would happen with Snoke?  It's not like he was an important character in TFA.  Same with Rey's parents.  Who cares, unless someone built up in his/her head what would happen with that plotline?  Moreover, even one was disappointed about her parents being "nobodies," who says Ren was telling the truth or that he wasn't merely stating a personal opinion?  The only complaint that I see as having any potential legitimacy is a complaint that how Luke behaved in TLJ was inconsistent with his character.  I don't happen to agree with that point of view, but it's at least a legitimate complaint not founded in preconceived notions.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: BlobVanDam on March 19, 2018, 11:57:29 AM
Preconceived notions have little to do with the dislike of TLJ that I've seen.

Sure, it swerved from preconceived notions in a few obvious ways, but the problem wasn't that it subverted expectations, it's that it did so in a way that didn't actually benefit the film at all, on the contrary it largely detracted mostly for the sake of trying to be different. Unexpected doesn't equate to good, especially when it's at the expense of a logical payoff to a setup. It still bothers me that it seemingly went out of its way to piss away every single setup from TFA. I wouldn't have cared where those plots went, as long as they went somewhere. Instead they were like "haha nope, fuck that" every single time, and little nothing of value in its place. It became predictably unpredictable.

But worst of all for me was the cringey sitcom humour that undermined the importance and emotional weight of the first 2/3 of the film. I dreaded every single scene inevitably ending with a dumb one liner that would just crap all over it. Yes, Star Wars has always had a good humour element that is an important part of the formula, but the style in this film broke the fourth wall for me and took me right out of the film literally from scene 1.

Overall, there's the lack of continuing on from TFA effectively, a very weak and uncompelling story in its own right, and doing a poor job of setting up something for the next movie that I care about. This movie has highlighted the problem with Disney's approach to the franchise, with no grand plan in advance for the trilogy.  TLJ has such an inconsistency with the franchise, in tone, character, plot, and world.

I know a film is bad when it actually makes me glad that JJ is taking over again. :lol That's not something I'd ever think I'd say after his treatment of Star Trek.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: bosk1 on March 19, 2018, 12:25:34 PM
Preconceived notions have little to do with the dislike of TLJ that I've seen. 

Then, respectfully, you aren't really in tune with the general consensus of those who complain about it, because that is exactly what most of the public criticism has been.  And that's fine.  Your own personal criticism doesn't have to follow the masses.  But if that's the case, you can't really claim to speak for the masses either. 

It still bothers me that it seemingly went out of its way to piss away every single setup from TFA.

No, it doesn't really do that at all.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: MirrorMask on March 19, 2018, 12:44:48 PM
Well, if the setup from TFA was "Luke ran away to nowhere and doesn't want to be found", it could have hardly followed with "Ok, I'll follow you straight away, unknown girl who brought me my lightsaber".

And about the growth of Kylo Ren to the Dark Side... he (almost) accomplished what Darth Vader himself set out to do. "Join me and we'll rule the galaxy as father and son". Darth Vader would have killed the Emperor with Luke at his side. Kylo Ren did kill his master, if Rey had joined him, he would have surpassed Vader's desires.

And I suspect that Rey's parents are "nobodies" in the same way that Yoda is an annoying goblin fooling around on Dagobah when we first met him. Maybe Kylo Ren was even sincere but he didn't realize the importance of those "nobodies" whose daughter is absurdingly skilled in the Force and drawn to Luke's saber.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: bosk1 on March 19, 2018, 01:10:32 PM
And I suspect that Rey's parents are "nobodies" in the same way that Yoda is an annoying goblin fooling around on Dagobah when we first met him. Maybe Kylo Ren was even sincere but he didn't realize the importance of those "nobodies" whose daughter is absurdingly skilled in the Force and drawn to Luke's saber.

Although there are a lot of reasons why part of me feels like her parents really should turn out to be people of some "significance," I think I would prefer if they let Kylo Ren's statement persist at face value.  It just feels more emotionally satisfying that the major players that are strong in the force have no direct connections to the major past heroes and that truly anyone can be a hero.  That was a pretty important theme, and having Rey be, say, a Skywalker or Kenobi seems to subvert that.  And also, having her parents be nobodies would seem to be consistent with the studio's statements about the series breaking from the past going forward.  So I really do think Kylo Ren was right.  But who knows?  They've done a good job with the series so far, so I'm sure whatever they do going forward will continue to be as good. 

That said, I do find it hard to imagine the franchise keeping me interested once this trilogy is complete.  But who knows?
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: T-ski on March 19, 2018, 03:27:48 PM
Preconceived notions have little to do with the dislike of TLJ that I've seen.

Sure, it swerved from preconceived notions in a few obvious ways, but the problem wasn't that it subverted expectations, it's that it did so in a way that didn't actually benefit the film at all, on the contrary it largely detracted mostly for the sake of trying to be different. Unexpected doesn't equate to good, especially when it's at the expense of a logical payoff to a setup. It still bothers me that it seemingly went out of its way to piss away every single setup from TFA. I wouldn't have cared where those plots went, as long as they went somewhere. Instead they were like "haha nope, fuck that" every single time, and little nothing of value in its place. It became predictably unpredictable.

But worst of all for me was the cringey sitcom humour that undermined the importance and emotional weight of the first 2/3 of the film. I dreaded every single scene inevitably ending with a dumb one liner that would just crap all over it. Yes, Star Wars has always had a good humour element that is an important part of the formula, but the style in this film broke the fourth wall for me and took me right out of the film literally from scene 1.

Overall, there's the lack of continuing on from TFA effectively, a very weak and uncompelling story in its own right, and doing a poor job of setting up something for the next movie that I care about. This movie has highlighted the problem with Disney's approach to the franchise, with no grand plan in advance for the trilogy.  TLJ has such an inconsistency with the franchise, in tone, character, plot, and world.

I know a film is bad when it actually makes me glad that JJ is taking over again. :lol That's not something I'd ever think I'd say after his treatment of Star Trek.

this.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Phoenix87x on March 19, 2018, 05:31:08 PM
Preconceived notions have little to do with the dislike of TLJ that I've seen.

Sure, it swerved from preconceived notions in a few obvious ways, but the problem wasn't that it subverted expectations, it's that it did so in a way that didn't actually benefit the film at all, on the contrary it largely detracted mostly for the sake of trying to be different. Unexpected doesn't equate to good, especially when it's at the expense of a logical payoff to a setup. It still bothers me that it seemingly went out of its way to piss away every single setup from TFA. I wouldn't have cared where those plots went, as long as they went somewhere. Instead they were like "haha nope, fuck that" every single time, and little nothing of value in its place. It became predictably unpredictable.

But worst of all for me was the cringey sitcom humour that undermined the importance and emotional weight of the first 2/3 of the film. I dreaded every single scene inevitably ending with a dumb one liner that would just crap all over it. Yes, Star Wars has always had a good humour element that is an important part of the formula, but the style in this film broke the fourth wall for me and took me right out of the film literally from scene 1.

Overall, there's the lack of continuing on from TFA effectively, a very weak and uncompelling story in its own right, and doing a poor job of setting up something for the next movie that I care about. This movie has highlighted the problem with Disney's approach to the franchise, with no grand plan in advance for the trilogy.  TLJ has such an inconsistency with the franchise, in tone, character, plot, and world.

I know a film is bad when it actually makes me glad that JJ is taking over again. :lol That's not something I'd ever think I'd say after his treatment of Star Trek.

this.

Double this.   Very well said Blob and I agree 100%
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: BlackInk on March 19, 2018, 10:48:48 PM
Triple that.

The attempts at humour and Canto Bight are this movieís biggest immediate flaws.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Logain Ablar on March 20, 2018, 03:39:52 AM
I've been staying away from TLJ discussion, as I know others here enjoyed it, but I really agree with Blob on this one. The movie has massively dented any enthusiasm I had for Star Wars.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: BlackInk on March 20, 2018, 03:53:50 AM
I seem to be relatively alone in the middle here. There are things about this movie that I thought were fantastic, but also decisions they made that are really really questionable and that hurt the movie tremendously for me.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: BlobVanDam on March 20, 2018, 06:15:47 AM
I seem to be relatively alone in the middle here. There are things about this movie that I thought were fantastic, but also decisions they made that are really really questionable and that hurt the movie tremendously for me.

There were certainly good elements to the movie, I just felt its shortcomings overshadowed it to the point that I couldn't get into it and enjoy those good parts. A lot of their story elements could have worked effectively, but most of them were handled badly imo. For example, Holdo sacrificing herself to save the resistance was a nice idea, and the part where the ship splits apart was a cool scene, the problem was that I didn't care about her sacrifice at all because they spent two hours playing her off as the bitchy antagonist to Poe, one of the main characters. They could have managed to make her a more sympathetic character even with clashing with Poe.

But after 30 something years, of course Luke should be reluctant to do anything. He felt responsible for causing the problem, and wasn't confident that he should be the one to try and fix it. And it made perfect sense that he didn't want to repeat his mistake with Rey either.
I did however have a problem with him being used too often for comic relief, tossing away the lightsaber immediately (great job deflating two years of anticipation with that one, guys), and the milk drinking bit. It clashed with the seriousness of his self imposed exile to me. The tone of the film was just all over the place. And his redemption at the end of the film was a bit underwhelming for me. It wasn't bad, and it served its purpose for the story, but his fade away was a bit whatever to me. I hope they do something with him as a force ghost in the next one. It would make sense, given that they were able to bring Yoda back, and now there's a hole left by Carrie Fisher's absence.


Preconceived notions have little to do with the dislike of TLJ that I've seen. 

Then, respectfully, you aren't really in tune with the general consensus of those who complain about it, because that is exactly what most of the public criticism has been.  And that's fine.  Your own personal criticism doesn't have to follow the masses.  But if that's the case, you can't really claim to speak for the masses either. 

It still bothers me that it seemingly went out of its way to piss away every single setup from TFA.

No, it doesn't really do that at all.

Respectfully, I spend a lot more time on the internet than you and in generally nerdy locations, so I think I have a perfectly good sense of the general criticisms of the film, especially from fans who can well articulate their issues with the film. I didn't claim to speak for the masses any more than you have, I just disagree with that defense, then gave my own opinions on the matter, which is all any of us are doing here. :)
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: soupytwist on March 20, 2018, 06:20:10 AM
I've been staying away from TLJ discussion, as I know others here enjoyed it, but I really agree with Blob on this one. The movie has massively dented any enthusiasm I had for Star Wars.

I didn't think it was great, a tad underwhelming - but Star Wars survived the horror of back to back drivel of Phantom Menace/Attack of the Clones.   Both those films are/were much, much worse (Not just bad Star Wars but legit bad movies period.)  and I'd take the unwelcome slapstick of TLJ over Jar Jar in a heartbeat.

The whole TLJ hate feels like a massive internet circle jerk.  The guy who I saw it with thought it was decent when we talked about it on the journey home from the cinema, now he claims to hate it because spent to much time reading all the negativity on the net.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: MirrorMask on March 20, 2018, 06:21:54 AM
Well, what should have done Luke with the lightsaber? he's in self imposed exile since forever, of course he doesn't want it. Maybe tossing it was a bit too much (but I like how Rey's expectations were drastically turned around, she must have gone through it in her head... "What do I say? I introduce myself? I make a speech? got it, I'll handle him his lightsaber, that will do!"), but realistically what would have been acceptable? just not taking it and walking away from Rey? saying something like "Keep it, I don't care for it"? it would have been anyway anti climatic.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: BlobVanDam on March 20, 2018, 06:41:40 AM
Well, what should have done Luke with the lightsaber? he's in self imposed exile since forever, of course he doesn't want it. Maybe tossing it was a bit too much (but I like how Rey's expectations were drastically turned around, she must have gone through it in her head... "What do I say? I introduce myself? I make a speech? got it, I'll handle him his lightsaber, that will do!"), but realistically what would have been acceptable? just not taking it and walking away from Rey? saying something like "Keep it, I don't care for it"? it would have been anyway anti climatic.

I think that last idea would have worked just fine, much better than what we got. But for me it's not so much about what they did, it's how they did it. Ending one film with this hugely epic shot of Luke glaring seriously at Rey as she hands him his own lightsaber, then starting the next movie with it turning into a comedy skit where he tosses it away for the cartoon birds to play with, it was such a jarring shift in tone to me that didn't work for the moment.


I've been staying away from TLJ discussion, as I know others here enjoyed it, but I really agree with Blob on this one. The movie has massively dented any enthusiasm I had for Star Wars.

I didn't think it was great, a tad underwhelming - but Star Wars survived the horror of back to back drivel of Phantom Menace/Attack of the Clones.   Both those films are/were much, much worse (Not just bad Star Wars but legit bad movies period.)  and I'd take the unwelcome slapstick of TLJ over Jar Jar in a heartbeat.

I think it survived because the 3 major films 3 years apart each is all we got, and the fanbase wasn't as segmented or jaded at that point. Now Disney are churning out movies every single year by obligation (and in the case of TLJ/Solo only half a year apart), so there's the risk of oversaturation watering down the novelty and appeal of a new SW movie, and now the fanbase is even more segmented with OT fans, PT fans, and a new generation of ST fans. TFA was a huge event because it was the first Star Wars film we'd had in a decade. We're now about to have the 4th Star Wars film in only two and a half years.
The novelty of Star Wars may wear off as people take it for granted that each year there'll be another one. It hasn't happened yet, as Rogue One and TLJ did excellent numbers, and Solo is yet to open, but Disney have to keep the quality up in future for it to work.

I think Ep IX could be a make or break film going forward, but I expect JJ will do a pretty good job with what he's been given. But then what about Rian Johnson's next trilogy, and the other trilogy from the GOT guys, and whatever side movies are next?
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: BlackInk on March 20, 2018, 06:42:59 AM
On paper, the idea of Luke throwing the lightsaber away is a perfectly acceptable one, Iíd even say that itís a pretty good idea. Playing it for comedy though... horrible choice. A choice that was a massive middle finger to to an audience that has been anticipating this moment for two years, like Blob said.

Ninjaíd
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: BlobVanDam on March 20, 2018, 06:46:07 AM
If Luke had tossed away the lightsaber in a serious moment without a word, like a whole bunch of raw emotions and history had just been brought up by the sight of someone tracking him down and handing him the saber, it would have been a powerful moment. Having the musical cue stop dead, him pulling a dopey "whatever" face and comically tossing it away, not so much.
On paper that's only a small change, but in practice, it's a world of difference to the emotion of the scene, and the film.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: MirrorMask on March 20, 2018, 06:48:02 AM
If Luke had tossed away the lightsaber in a serious moment without a word, like a whole bunch of raw emotions had just been brought up by the sight of someone tracking him down and handing the saber to him, it would have been a powerful moment. Having the musical cue stop dead, him pulling a dopey "whatever" face and comically tossing it away, not so much.
On paper that's only a small change, but in practice, it's a world of difference to the emotion of the scene, and the film.

Well, I can see how this precise detail of the scene and music combined could be annoying.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Polarbear on March 20, 2018, 07:00:48 AM
I've been staying away from TLJ discussion, as I know others here enjoyed it, but I really agree with Blob on this one. The movie has massively dented any enthusiasm I had for Star Wars.

I didn't think it was great, a tad underwhelming - but Star Wars survived the horror of back to back drivel of Phantom Menace/Attack of the Clones.   Both those films are/were much, much worse (Not just bad Star Wars but legit bad movies period.)  and I'd take the unwelcome slapstick of TLJ over Jar Jar in a heartbeat.

The whole TLJ hate feels like a massive internet circle jerk.  The guy who I saw it with thought it was decent when we talked about it on the journey home from the cinema, now he claims to hate it because spent to much time reading all the negativity on the net.

I've seen some claim that this movie is the death of Star Wars, why? Lucasfilm will make Star Wars movies until the day stars expire, I'm sure those who dislike TLJ find something to enjoy in those future Star Wars movies.

I also find interesting, how this movie in particular is such a source of controversy. I think it is a little too long, has some awkward tonal shifts and some unnecessary stuff that could have been left on the cutting room floor. It's a middle of the pack Star Wars movie for me. Not one of the best, far from being the worst.

A pretty good movie, that has strengths that outweigh it's weaknesses imo.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: lordxizor on March 20, 2018, 07:05:18 AM
One of the Iron Man movies (can't recall which off hand) was pretty terrible and it didn't kill the MCU. One Star Wars movie with mixed reception won't kill Star Wars if the prequel trilogy didn't. Now, if they churn out two mediocre Star Wars movies a year for the next few years, there will definitely be a slow decline in interest. The reality is we will get some good and some just OK Star Wars movies. Hopefully we won't get any that are really bad, though obviously that's up to each individual interpretation.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: kaos2900 on March 20, 2018, 07:11:57 AM
I still think TLJ is a top 3 SW movies. None of them are perfect but I still contend that the majority of discontent for TLJ comes from fan theories not coming true.

My Top 3 SW Films
The Last Jedi
The Empire Strikes Back
The Revenge of the Sith
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: jammindude on March 20, 2018, 07:17:32 AM
I think the reason for the controversy is how polarizing it is. What I mean is, the fan boys who hated it honestly thought they would be the overwhelming majority. When they realized there were more than a few OG fanboys who loved it, there was a spark of further outrage.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: BlackInk on March 20, 2018, 08:51:31 AM
I also feel like the narcissism of small differences is somewhat at play.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: soupytwist on March 20, 2018, 08:58:36 AM
PT fans

Is there such a thing?  And if so, why?
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: BlobVanDam on March 20, 2018, 09:45:16 AM
PT fans

Is there such a thing?  And if so, why?

There is apparently such a thing. As far as I can tell, it's only people who were under the age of 10 when they first saw them, and possibly even saw them before the OT, and have some kind of deep twisted childhood nostalgia for them. I have not found any other reasonable explanation for people loving those movies (1 and 2 at least).
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: bosk1 on March 20, 2018, 10:23:41 AM
Actually, this sums it up pretty nicely:  https://medium.com/@thejohnprice/star-wars-fans-dont-deserve-the-last-jedi-5bd167dfc033

A bit rude and on the nose, and I think overstates some things, but still. 
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Samsara on March 20, 2018, 11:57:42 AM
I did not like The Last Jedi the first time I saw it. I talked the film over with friends, realized I missed some of the brilliance in how the film was done. Went to see it again, and fell in love with it. It still has some warts (SUPERLEIA!!!!), but overall, I think it was excellent.

I am really excited to have it in 4k UHD. It will be my first "new release" on a 4k UHD blu-ray. Can't wait to see how it looks and sounds.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: gmillerdrake on March 20, 2018, 01:04:22 PM
Actually, this sums it up pretty nicely:  https://medium.com/@thejohnprice/star-wars-fans-dont-deserve-the-last-jedi-5bd167dfc033

A bit rude and on the nose, and I think overstates some things, but still.

Seemed pretty spot on to me.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: BlackInk on March 20, 2018, 01:46:01 PM
I really don't know if what that article says is true or not, I only know that it's completely irrelevant to my personal issues with the movie. It's basically playing the "you just didn't get it" card, only it doesn't matter whether I got it or not here, I just found some elements of the movie poorly executed.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: gmillerdrake on March 20, 2018, 01:50:19 PM
I really don't know if what that article says is true or not, I only know that it's completely irrelevant to my personal issues with the movie. It's basically playing the "you just didn't get it" card, only it doesn't matter whether I got it or not here, I just found some elements of the movie poorly executed.

What I liked about the article was that it pointed out the fact that the OT weren't cinematic masterpieces filled with mind bending dialogue and plot devices. They were just simple, fun kid stories....that had been told in one form or another for quite some time. I think those of us who were enamored with SW from a young age have built this aura about and around the OT and have made them out in our minds to be better 'movies' than they actually are.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: kaos2900 on March 20, 2018, 01:54:53 PM
Great article.

In addition to the on-screen story, The Last Jedi tells a meta-narrative about Star Wars itself: Kylo Ren is a Vader cosplayer who grew up playing with dark side toys. Snoke is an internet troll whining that Kylo Ren got beat by a girl. Rey believes in The Legend and wants nothing more than for Luke to come to the galaxyís rescue with a laser sword. Poe doesnít care about the human element, as long as the explosions look cool. And Finn is a naive rube, new to the universe and bumbling his way through the adventure knowing that the rules of storytelling mean itíll magically work out in the end. Every one of us went into The Last Jedi as one of those five: Kylo the entitled cosplayer, Snoke the myopic troll, Rey the true believer, Poe the adrenaline junkie, or Finn the blind simpleton. And what happened? All of these charactersí assumptions, beliefs, and assurances blew up in their faces. The fans spent two years between The Force Awakens and The Last Jedi coming up with theories and speculation and expectations for what they would see. And what happened? All of the fansí assumptions, beliefs, and assurances blew up in their faces.

Thatís a heckuva lot deeper than ďfarmboy rescues princess and fights the evil empire.Ē

Agreed 100%.

Also, I'm a fan of the PT.  :D
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: MirrorMask on March 20, 2018, 02:04:19 PM
Lol at the whole part, especially "Kylo Ren is a Vader cosplayer who grew up playing with dark side toys."

Snoke even calls him out on that while he and Rey are in his presence. But I guess that's precisely the entire point: Kylo Ren is a Vader wannabe, we're not meant to see how badass and iconic he is, we're meant to see him for what he is: someone who wants so bad to be Vader, but will never match up to him.

Still, he did what only Vader dreamt of, killing the Emperor.

Oh, LOL at "If you think that the Darth Vader turn was some brilliant Shyamalan twistÖ youÖ should read more Shakespeare. The guyís name is literally ďDark Father.Ē "... even though I think it's pretty safe to say that the whole Vader is Luke's dad was totally made up during the writing of Empire (no, not the Queensryche album).
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: BlackInk on March 20, 2018, 02:07:44 PM
I love Star Wars, but I never had any illusion that they were objectively great movies. No SW movie would get near any top 10 movies of all time list for me. You won't hear me say that any SW movie should have been nominated for best picture. But that has no bearing on the critisisms of The Last Jedi.

As for the meta-narrative. That may very well be true, what do I know, but it also seems like reading too much into it. You can basically asign any meaning you want to any narrative ever if you want it badly enough. So yeah, compelling theory, but not something that immediately strikes me as something to take seriously.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: ProfessorPeart on March 27, 2018, 10:21:38 PM
Just finished watching the feature length doc and some of the smaller supplements on the Last Jedi blu. Kudos to Lucasfilm for not hiding. During the doc, Hamill's unhappiness with the script was an ongoing thread. Several interviews and comments from Hamill on what he thought was wrong, etc. Nice to see them address things head-on. Kudos to Hamill for being such a pro through it all. The man is all class.

In another supplement, Johnson gives details and explanations on several of the plot points that pissed people off. He gives some great explanations on what he did and why he did it. I gained a lot of respect for him from watching these docs. He's a genuine fan and seems like a really nice guy to boot.

All in all, I love the movie and support pretty much every decision he made. The 10 minute mini-doc with the plot explanations really cemented what I already liked. He gave them even more validation for me.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: BlackInk on March 27, 2018, 11:59:46 PM
Need to see that one. Sounds really interesting.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Polarbear on March 28, 2018, 12:24:36 AM
In my country, the Blu Ray doesn't come out until the middle of next month. Need to see that doc now!

Kudos for Hamill for being candid. He could have very easily hammed up he's performance in the film, but he knocked it out of the park despite he's personal feelings toward the script..
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Adami on March 28, 2018, 12:42:59 AM
Yea, he hasn't kept his feelings hidden.

He recently gave an interview talking about how the script didn't have time for Luke's character development, but it had plenty of time for drinking alien milk.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: gmillerdrake on March 28, 2018, 12:11:31 PM
Just picked up the Blu Ray and Bonus material. Looking forward to watching it...especially now with the opinions I've read
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: kaos2900 on March 29, 2018, 07:52:18 AM
What's interesting is that I think Luke's story was handled great. I'm guess Mark has had 30 years to make up in his head how Luke's story should go and he was disappointed with the direction taken. In other words he's a typical star wars fan.  ;)
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: lordxizor on March 29, 2018, 07:57:15 AM
I wasn't really disappointed that he choose to be a hermit all those years and didn't want to intervene. I was more disappointed that we didn't really see him train Rey much. Having her slowly open him up to her and train her a little more would have been nice. Especially given that we got that damn casino scene at the expense of more time with Luke and Rey. My main annoyance with the new trilogy is that Rey is becoming a very powerful Jedi with virtually no training at all. Jedi used to train for 20-ish year before they became a Jedi Knight. Now some girl just has the Force awaken within her and she's good to go. Overall I've liked both movies a lot, but I understand the general complaints about them.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: bosk1 on March 29, 2018, 08:40:37 AM
My main annoyance with the new trilogy is that Rey is becoming a very powerful Jedi with virtually no training at all. Jedi used to train for 20-ish year before they became a Jedi Knight. Now some girl just has the Force awaken within her and she's good to go.

I hear you.  But keep in mind that Empire did the same thing with Luke.  He trained for, what, a couple of days tops with Yoda before running off to fight Vader.  And then in ROTJ, his powers have grown, despite that he apparently never returned and finished his training.  That could have easily been fixed by just doing a time lapse and explaining that Luke was on Dagobah for a few months, or even a couple of years, while Han, Leia, and Chewie spent that time hiding and on the run before finally ending up in Cloud City and being tracked there by the Empire.  And then have him return for more training between Empire and ROTJ.  But, no.  He trained for a couple of days and was good to go. 

So while I agree with your criticism wholeheartedly, it's kind of silly to hold that only against the new films when it was actually bad precedent that was set in the OT. 
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: YtseJam on March 29, 2018, 09:43:50 AM
Luke is also the son of Vader and it is clearly explained that he and his sister inherited his fathers ability to use the Force. Rey just has it  :tdwn
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: bosk1 on March 29, 2018, 10:25:17 AM
Yes, but (1) who cares?  And (2) who cares?
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Kattelox on March 29, 2018, 10:37:53 AM
I do, but I also point out all the things that make the original trilogy god awful, too, so...  :biggrin: Like in bosk's post above, all I think is, "This is just making the case that Star Wars in general is not good"  :rollin
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Orbert on March 29, 2018, 10:38:02 AM
I care.  I think that's a good point.  Luke started his training with Obi-Wan, then went to Dagobah to train further with Yoda.  We didn't see a lot with Yoda, but there was definitely enough to evoke the passage of time.  I always figured he was there at least a few weeks if not months.  But as the son of Anakin Skywalker, he had the natural ability already; it just needed focus.

Rey is supposedly the daughter of a couple of "nobodies" and we really saw very little to indicate that she trained with Luke for more than a couple of days.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Samsara on March 29, 2018, 10:53:56 AM
Here's the thing, like many, Luke was one of, if not my favorite character. And like many, on first watch, I hated what they did. On second watch, I changed my mind. Yesterday was the first time I watched it at home instead of the theater, and found myself really appreciating what Johnson did.

Luke develops from a bitter old man who feels like he let the universe down, to a man who realizes he's been wallowing in self-pity and redeems himself and becomes a hero again, even showing just how strong (more than anyone else who we've seen) in the force he really is at the end with his iconic appearance. He ends up being the spark that drives a renewed upsurge (I assume) in the force and the rebellion.

The only thing I didn't like (aside from Super Leia, which is ridiculous) is Luke's flippant toss of the lightsaber at the beginning. If that particular move was cut, and he instead gave it back to Rey, I think it would have set a better tone from the outset.

Trust me, I am a Luke fanboy who wanted him to be the Luke of old. But by the time we got to the end, the Luke I've always known was once again there to save the day. And to be honest, I think Luke will have a critical role in the next film, as he will train Rey as a force ghost. I am guessing, but I do think there is more to Luke's story.

Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Orbert on March 29, 2018, 10:57:56 AM
Luke develops from a bitter old man who feels like he let the universe down, to a man who realizes he's been wallowing in self-pity and redeems himself and becomes a hero again, even showing just how strong (more than anyone else who we've seen) in the force he really is at the end with his iconic appearance. He ends up being the spark that drives a renewed upsurge (I assume) in the force and the rebellion.

The only thing I didn't like (aside from Super Leia, which is ridiculous) is Luke's flippant toss of the lightsaber at the beginning. If that particular move was cut, and he instead gave it back to Rey, I think it would have set a better tone from the outset.

Yes.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: bosk1 on March 29, 2018, 11:00:39 AM
I care.  I think that's a good point.  Luke started his training with Obi-Wan, then went to Dagobah to train further with Yoda.  We didn't see a lot with Yoda, but there was definitely enough to evoke the passage of time.  I always figured he was there at least a few weeks if not months.  But as the son of Anakin Skywalker, he had the natural ability already; it just needed focus.

Rey is supposedly the daughter of a couple of "nobodies" and we really saw very little to indicate that she trained with Luke for more than a couple of days.

Yes, but (1) so what?  And (2) so what?

Oh, and:
Luke trained for maybe a couple of hours on the Falcon with Obi Wan.
Luke trained for maybe a couple of days max with Yoda.  It is clear there is no significant passage of time because the Falcon isn't on the run for that long. 
So you will find that it is you who are mistaken.  About a great many things.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Orbert on March 29, 2018, 11:18:40 AM
I care, and I know that you don't care that I care, but I don't care that you don't care that I care.

It is indeed a flaw in the script/directing/whatever that tries to show passage of time on Dagobah while apparently very little time has passed for Han and Leia.  I just don't care.  And I know that you don't care that I don't care, but...
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: BlackInk on March 29, 2018, 11:58:42 AM
The way Luke carries himself at the beginning of RotJ, I always assumed that he went back and trained more between the movies. Haven't ever looked into it, but that's what I just naturally assumed.

Also, who knows how long it takes to get to Cloud City without a functioning hyper driver. I think there could be a legit case made that Luke was training with Yoda for a significant longer period than the movie makes it appear.

A clear difference however, is that while Rey seems to have far less training, she has been put in situations where she has had a lot more success. Luke wasn't sufficiently trained when he first faced Vader, something both Yoda and Obi-Wan were keen to point out and were right about, he suffered terrible consequences because of it. He lost, hard. Vader was playing around with him, as he should have. I love Rey and think she is arguably the best thing about the new trilogy (even though she took the back seat a bit in TLJ), and while I'm usually on the other end of this argument, I can't deny that her lack of any apparent flaw or proper failure makes it easier for people to call her a Mary Sue.

I am personally all for the idea that her parents were nobodies, that is a brilliant twist in my opinion (aside from the fact that TFA doesn't seem to agree).
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Samsara on March 29, 2018, 01:01:04 PM
The "nobodies" factor is important, and I do believe Rey's parents were nobodies. Note at the end, with the boy sweeping (note he called the broom to him using the force) was, as it appears, a "nobody." The overriding theme is that you don't have to be "someone" to make a big impact. Age-old theme. And a good one.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: MirrorMask on March 29, 2018, 01:02:36 PM
The "nobodies" factor is important, and I do believe Rey's parents were nobodies. Note at the end, with the boy sweeping (note he called the broom to him using the force) was, as it appears, a "nobody." The overriding theme is that you don't have to be "someone" to make a big impact.

"That was the point. Anyone could be the Batman"

Ehr, wrong franchise.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Samsara on March 29, 2018, 01:09:59 PM
The "nobodies" factor is important, and I do believe Rey's parents were nobodies. Note at the end, with the boy sweeping (note he called the broom to him using the force) was, as it appears, a "nobody." The overriding theme is that you don't have to be "someone" to make a big impact.

"That was the point. Anyone could be the Batman"

Ehr, wrong franchise.

 :lol

And totally wrong with Batman (even though I am a Nolan trilogy fanboy). But it works for Rey and TLJ
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: lordxizor on March 29, 2018, 02:09:53 PM
I'm with those who think that Dagobah was at least weeks if not months of time, but I guess there's no way to know for sure. And realistically, Luke got as much actual Jedi training from Obi Wan on the Falcon that Luke gave to Rey during her time on the island. He didn't really train her at all other than having her reach out with the Force.



Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Cool Chris on March 29, 2018, 02:16:56 PM
No one cared about those things with ESB/RotJ because they were too busy being wrapped up in an exciting, entertaining story.

We are also in the CinemaSins generation. As they themselves say, there is no movie without sins. In 1980 we didn't make videos pointing out all the plotholes every movie had.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Adami on March 29, 2018, 02:26:38 PM
In 1980 we didn't make videos pointing out all the plotholes every movie had.

(https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/3mwZr54h9ZoGeB1mBmL1qAILaDk=/0x0:970x595/920x613/filters:focal(408x221:562x375):format(webp)/cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_image/image/55412265/fullwidth.1a850c31.0.jpg)
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Cool Chris on March 29, 2018, 02:32:23 PM
That was a crappy show making fun of crappier movies. But.... touche.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: MirrorMask on March 30, 2018, 07:34:02 AM
We are also in the CinemaSins generation. As they themselves say, there is no movie without sins. In 1980 we didn't make videos pointing out all the plotholes every movie had.

Like Indy preventing the Ark from reaching successfully Berlin, and therefore melting just the faces of some random goonies rather than the entire head of the Reich instead  :lol
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: TheOutlawXanadu on March 31, 2018, 06:39:49 PM
I just finished the Blu-Ray bonus content. While I understand that Lucasfilm carefully crafts these things to present a certain image, I was still taken aback by all the genuinely awesome moments that were captured. Say what you want about the film, but I think that Rian Johnson's heart was in the right place. He poured a lot of love into it. You can also tell that the movie genuinely meant something to Carrie Fisher and others. :metal

Also, count me in the "I Don't Care That Rey Wasn't Trained" camp. Mostly because... Who cares? But also because the original trilogy set the precedent that training is merely a bonus. :millahhhh
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: gmillerdrake on March 31, 2018, 10:00:48 PM
Just watched TLJ again with the kiddos. Every subsequent viewing I gain more and more appreciation for it. I just think itís a really good movie. Looking forward to the Bonus material.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Grappler on April 02, 2018, 08:29:50 AM
Finally watched The Last Jedi after a nearly 5 month wait.  Skipped it in the theaters - it's too hard to get out with two young kids.  I avoided most spoilers, except for three:  Luke dies, Luke isn't his old self, and Yoda appears.  I had no idea of how any of that happened or tied together, so the spoilers didn't really bother me.

I thought it was amazing on my first watch.  Yeah, I'd love a big, badass Jedi Knight Luke right from the get go, but within the story, it fully made sense to me where he's at and why he's done with being a Jedi.  Life isn't always happy.  We all go through experiences that beat us down - so why can't our favorite characters be that real as well?  I'm not going to re-read this thread, but I did see bosk note that preconceived notions are pretty much the stem of the movie's criticism, and I completely agree.  We all thought we'd know where this movie was headed and that it would answer all of those questions from TFA, and it didn't, and I'm glad for that.  You all thought TFA was a rip off?  Fine, here's a movie that isn't a rip off - we're going to take your favorite character and flip him on his head..  "Waaaaaah, it isn't what we wanted." 

Leia flying through space was silly, but the prequels all featured Force Pushing heavily, so why can't she reach out to the force in her greatest need and use it to pull herself through space?  It's just the opposite of a force push, and she was certainly incapacitated due to the event as well.  It's not like she got back onto the ship and was all fine and dandy from the get go.  I can overlook that stuff easily when these movies do exactly what I want - which is make me feel like I'm 10 years old again and draw me into this amazing universe. 
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: BlackInk on April 02, 2018, 12:36:34 PM
To once again address the Ēpersonal preconcieved notions being everyoneís problemĒ bit, that hasnít been the case for me or the people Iíve spoken to. A lot of peopleís grievances seem to be based on perfectly legitimate critisisms. And as far as I can tell, the few critisims that actually are based on expectations are not personal at all, but often based on specific set-up from or questions raised by TFA, which is just not the same thing.

As for the Leia flying through space thing, I donít personally mind it happening, I just wish it hadnít looked so freakiní dumb. Thatís what ruined it for me.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Accelerando on April 06, 2018, 03:01:59 PM
Something was pointed out to me that i didnít think about before. Johnson wrote TLJ during production for TFA, in which it was announced during said production that JJ would be an Executive Producer. Thereís no way JJ and Johnson never had a conversation about the direction to go for Episode 8. I think the answers that people want are going to have to wait until Episode 9 (im in the crowd that thinks Kylo was lying to Rey about her lineage), and we are in the movie generation that wants the answers and twists right away. What Johnson did which I thought was brilliant was he gave us key character arcs for Kylo and Rey thats going to pay off moving forward. We know that Kylo will never be turned, that he killed both the conflicts that he was struggling with (Han and Snoke). Yeah, it would be interesting to know more of Snokeís backstory, but I find it more intriguing that Kylo is the ultimate baddie going into episode 9. Iíll only be dissapointed if we never get to see any Knights of Ren action.

Something Iíve thought about the past few days.

My gf and are going to watch TLJ with Rian Johnsons commentary tonight. I hope itís as insightful as that ďThe Dirctor and The JediĒ bonus feature on the blu-ray
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: YtseJam on April 06, 2018, 04:59:49 PM
I hardly think it was brilliance... more like a total disconnect from the audience perspective. Commentary is just there to explain his bad story telling.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Accelerando on April 06, 2018, 05:20:28 PM
Hardly bad storytelling, but to each his own!

I guess The Last Jedi is the new ďDont bring up politics during Thanksgiving dinnerĒ  :lol
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: CrimsonSunrise on April 07, 2018, 01:15:38 AM
Every subsequent viewing I gain more and more appreciation for it.
  I REALLY hope this is how it turns out for me.  When I saw it in the theaters certain things really bugged me.  The comic relief stuff, and of course Leia thwarting serious damage to herself out in the vacuum.  Anyone who knows me knows I'm pretty liberal with my reviews, and I like a LOT of movies that the gen pop critiques.  Such as the Prequels.... I enjoyed them.  Or the Matrix 2/3.  Loved those too!

This movie though....I picked up the BR yesterday and had a bit of a tough time watching it.  NEVER have I had that experience with a SW's movie.  :sadpanda:
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Cool Chris on April 08, 2018, 09:53:24 PM
New Solo trailer our and up on youtube. Not following this movie's production at all. So not really sure what the story is. And I sure ain't getting it from the trailers. I get it, I am not supposed to (ignoring that some trailers go out of their way to show the entire movie in 2:30, but that's beside the point). On the surface, "Here's the backstory of the Han Solo we met in Ep4" isn't enough to get me interested.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Polarbear on April 09, 2018, 01:07:07 AM
The moment Lando said "buckle up baby" I was sold! :lol Donald Glover is going to give Billy Dee a run for his money.

I dug the trailer! I'm even starting to warm up to Ehrenreich as Han. From the trailer I got the feel of what Star Wars was originally about, a fun and slightly cheesy space adventure in the vein of the old adventure serials.

So, yeah! I'll go see it in the theater.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: BlobVanDam on April 09, 2018, 01:10:36 AM
This trailer was definitely better than what we've previously seen, and Donald Glover looks like he's gonna kill it, but I'll be giving this one a miss.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Logain Ablar on April 09, 2018, 06:06:07 AM
Trailer was ok. I'm still not convinced that this dude is Han Solo, but I'm open to persuasion.

I'm intrigued about that extra bit on the front of the Falcon, between the two front "jaws". What is it? Some kind of escape pod?
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: lordxizor on April 09, 2018, 06:18:33 AM
I thought the trailer was good. Honestly my only hold-up about this movie is that it's supposed to be Han Solo. If he was supposed ot some other character I'd be super excited about it.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: gmillerdrake on April 09, 2018, 06:28:31 AM
Trailer was ok. I'm still not convinced that this dude is Han Solo, but I'm open to persuasion.

That was always going to be the make or break for this film. I still canít believe they thought that they could capture Han Solo from a different actor. Harrison Ford is Han Solo....heís an iconic character. As with you, Iím open to the persuasion from the film and actor that itís a young Han. I just donít see how you can emulate what Harrison Ford did with that character. We shall find out soon....
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Logain Ablar on April 09, 2018, 07:00:21 AM
It's a difficult one, because if he were to play it too close to Harrison Ford, he'll be accused of doing a bad impersonation, and if he does his own thing, people will also complain that it's not true to the original.

But even so, for me, he'll still need to have that cocky, overconfident "swagger" to play the character. (Maybe even more so, if it's a younger version of Han) I'm not sure I've seen that yet, from the short clips we've seen, but hopefully we will get it in the movie.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Orbert on April 09, 2018, 07:29:29 AM
I won't see Solo in the theater, but I'll check it out once it comes around to cable.  The movie wasn't "necessary" but hey, they made it anyway, so I might as well see what they came up with.  I don't worship Star Wars like some do, but I like most of it and the universe they've created.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: kaos2900 on April 09, 2018, 09:09:56 AM
Looks like a fun Star Wars action movie. It appears that Han was miscast and I'm concerned with the reported talent issues with him. That being said, the trailer looks cool and I think it will be a good fun film.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: gmillerdrake on April 09, 2018, 09:47:20 AM
Looks like a fun Star Wars action movie. It appears that Han was miscast and I'm concerned with the reported talent issues with him. That being said, the trailer looks cool and I think it will be a good fun film.

I think it looks cool as well and predict it'll be a much bigger success than the negative 'buzz' around the internet is leading us to believe. I mean, the production alone looks incredible.




Question is.....will this be the first SW movie that does not have a light saber in it?
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: gmillerdrake on April 09, 2018, 10:33:19 PM
Ran across this fan video....thought it was pretty neat.


https://youtu.be/pykJCXKhllA
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: YtseJam on April 11, 2018, 06:48:41 PM
Trailer was ok. I'm still not convinced that this dude is Han Solo, but I'm open to persuasion.

I'm intrigued about that extra bit on the front of the Falcon, between the two front "jaws". What is it? Some kind of escape pod?

Yeah I'm sure they have some silly explanation, a sister ship, a makeover after they crash it, lightened it up to be faster than the average freighter or some crap.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: lordxizor on April 12, 2018, 06:08:39 AM
Han did say that he had made some special modifications to the Falcon in ANH, so it makes sense that it looks different when he first gets it.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Aelon on April 12, 2018, 07:01:36 AM
I think I saw somewhere in the toy version that it was a separate ship that ejects or something.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: jingle.boy on April 12, 2018, 07:19:29 AM
This trailer was definitely better than what we've previously seen, and Donald Glover looks like he's gonna kill it, but I'll be giving this one a miss.

Agreed.

Trailer was ok. I'm still not convinced that this dude is Han Solo, but I'm open to persuasion.

I wlth you on this as well.  I'm open to persuasion, but I'm not feeling it AT ALL at the moment.  Look, he doesn't need to *be* just like Harrison Ford, but he has to be believable that he could grow in to the same character as Harrison Ford.  To me, Ewan McGregor nailed the prequel Obi-Wan.  He had the mannerisms, altered his accent ever so slightly, and adapted the style/inflection of his voice.  He studied Sir Alec a LOT to prepare and give an authentic younger Obi-Wan.  And he convinced me he was a younger Obi-Wan.

I get none of that from this guy (not even bothered to look up his name).  To me, it feels like they didn't even care - completely ignoring/disregarding Harrison's delivery of Han.  It's tantamount to completely swapping out actors for the same character (ala Terrence Howard/Don Cheadle in the MCU)
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: gmillerdrake on April 12, 2018, 08:24:05 AM
Started on 'Rebels' last night.....only watched the first episode but it was pretty neat.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: kaos2900 on April 13, 2018, 08:18:08 AM
Started on 'Rebels' last night.....only watched the first episode but it was pretty neat.

It's a good but not great series. There are some really great episodes and some duds, similar to clone wars which I prefer. Still a worthy addition to the Star Wars cannon. Looking forward to the next iteration. 
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: gmillerdrake on April 13, 2018, 08:44:18 AM
Started on 'Rebels' last night.....only watched the first episode but it was pretty neat.

It's a good but not great series. There are some really great episodes and some duds, similar to clone wars which I prefer. Still a worthy addition to the Star Wars cannon. Looking forward to the next iteration.

I hammered out another three episodes last night. If it sticks to what you're saying and is similar to Clone Wars as far as the frequency of dud vs cool episodes....I'm cool with it. Plus, I know from just seeing here and there that Ahsoka comes back at a later date so that'll keep me hooked. For whatever reason I have an odd fascination and attraction to her character. Curious to see how she's used in 'Rebels'.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: kaos2900 on April 13, 2018, 11:33:00 AM
Started on 'Rebels' last night.....only watched the first episode but it was pretty neat.

It's a good but not great series. There are some really great episodes and some duds, similar to clone wars which I prefer. Still a worthy addition to the Star Wars cannon. Looking forward to the next iteration.

I hammered out another three episodes last night. If it sticks to what you're saying and is similar to Clone Wars as far as the frequency of dud vs cool episodes....I'm cool with it. Plus, I know from just seeing here and there that Ahsoka comes back at a later date so that'll keep me hooked. For whatever reason I have an odd fascination and attraction to her character. Curious to see how she's used in 'Rebels'.

I'd have to watch the series again to say for sure, but based on memory season 2 is best probably because of Ahsoka and Vader. Season 1 is easily weakest season of the show.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: BlackInk on April 13, 2018, 02:54:23 PM
The end of season 2 is fantastic. By any standard. The rest of the show is as you've described, sometimes good, sometimes a bit silly.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: bosk1 on April 17, 2018, 11:34:42 AM
Okay, here is something that REALLY bothers me about the Star Wars films.  More than Jar-Jar.  More than probably anything else, even though it is a seemingly minor detail.

R2-D2 and C-3PO do not belong in ANY of the prequel trilogy films or Rogue One.  Neither does Chewbacca, but I can tolerate his presence in ROTS because it sort of makes sense that he could have been at the battle of Kashyyyk.  But still, I prefer to think he was more of a solitary rogue even at that point, because it better suits the character that was portrayed in the OT and beyond.  But anyway, the droids do not belong in the PT or R1.  Or if they were portrayed there, their appearances should have been brief and minor.  There was plenty of other fan service and plenty of other callbacks.  We didn't need the stupid droids.

Perhaps the most important reason is that, in the OT, neither Obi Wan nor Vader appear to recognize the droids.  The EXTENSIVE and rather intimate interaction the two had with those two droids in the PT just doesn't make sense and appears to obviously retconned that it takes me out of the moment almost whenever they are onscreen in the PT.  Second, their interaction and character arcs in the OT don't really make much sense given the extent of their close interaction with one another in the PT.  Third, as I alluded to above, their presence in the PT was completely unnecessary. 

As far as R1, I think they actually should have been in that film, but just not where they were placed.  There is no evidence that Leia or the Tantive IV were on Yavin 4 at any point during the events in R1.  Therefore, the droids shouldn't have been there.  If they were to be given a cameo in that movie, it should have been at the end aboard the Tantive IV when the plans are given to Leia.  Yeah, there could be any number of ways in which they actually got from Yavin 4 to the Tantive IV in the interim.  But the events that occur between the time we see the droids and the time the battle of Scarif occur in such a rapid-fire manner in such a short period of time that it would seem very odd for the droids to have been picked up and taken along, which leads some of us in the audience to stop and have to think about how it could have happened and how unlikely it would be.  And, IMO, if it is likely that the audience will do that, then the storytellers haven't done a good job.  And that brings me to another problem altogether that I had with an otherwise stellar R1.  The Tantive IV shouldn't have been there to begin with.  It wasn't a war ship, and Leia was too important a leader to have been present at a battle that was likely to be a suicide mission or at the very least result in HEAVY casualties for the rebellion.  They could have done the ending sequence basically the same, but had it be some other ship.  That other ship beams the plans away just as Vader kills the person who did it.  The Imperials then look at the ship's computers and determine that the plans were beamed to the Tantive IV and are able to ascertain its location from the transmission, and have a line about jumping to hyperspace to immediately pursue it near Tatooine.  THEN it should cut to the scene were Leia is given the plans and delivers her "hope" line, with the droids present, if necessary.  That would be a much cleaner way to do it and still bridge us directly to the opening of Ep. IV.

/rant
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: lordxizor on April 17, 2018, 11:38:31 AM
I recall decades ago (like probably early 90s) hearing that Lucas planned on having the droids be the only characters who would be in all 9 episodes. So at least at some level they were always vaguely planned. I agree though that the way they were in the prequel trilogy made no sense given the lack of recognition from Obi-Wan.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Orbert on April 17, 2018, 12:08:09 PM
Yep, back when Lucas said that there would be nine episodes (before he changed it to six and swore he never said nine), he'd also said that R2-D2 and C-3P0 would be the only two characters in all nine episodes.  I always pictured them as being somewhat in the background, popping up once in a while but basically only making cameo appearances.  But it was at least possible since droids "live" a long time.

Then he somehow decided that an eight-year-old kid could build a "protocol droid" (fluent in 400,000 forms of communication) out of scrap metal, and it only went downhill from there.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: bosk1 on April 17, 2018, 12:10:02 PM
Yeah, and if they happened to show up or were just used differently and in a way that was actually consistent with the PT, I wouldn't have had a problem with it.  But the way they showed up was just all wrong.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Orbert on April 17, 2018, 12:35:53 PM
The retcon is strong with this prequel trilogy.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: bosk1 on April 17, 2018, 12:47:17 PM
:lol  Yeah.

Since my rant did include R1 in a major way, I do want to back up and express again how much I love that film.  I think it's still my favorite movie in the franchise, if I had to pick one.  It just provides so much richness and texture to the Star Wars universe, and it is gritty in all the right ways without going too far and taking us out of that universe.  It's funny how a movie I had so little interest in when I initially heard about it ended up being my favorite of the bunch.

I was reading the Wikipedia summary to look up something in one of my previous posts, and found the following about the sound track.  I love the alternate titles.  :lol

Quote
All music was composed by Giacchino except where noted. Giacchino, who has a history of using track titles that contain wordplay, shared his alternate list in the liner notes of the soundtrack release. These names are listed in the notes.

1. "He's Here for Us" ("A Krennic Connection") 3:20
2. "A Long Ride Ahead" ("Jyn and Scare It") 3:56
3. "Wobani Imperial Labor Camp" ("Jyncarcerated") 0:54
4. "Trust Goes Both Ways" ("Going to See Saw"; includes "The Force Theme" by John Williams) 2:45
5. "When Has Become Now" ("That New Death Star Smell"; includes "Death Star Motif" by John Williams) 1:59
6. "Jedha Arrival" ("Jedha Call Saw") 2:48
7. "Jedha City Ambush" ("When Ambush Come to Shove") 2:19
8. "Star-Dust" ("Erso-Facto") 3:47
9. "Confrontation on Eadu" ("Go Do, That Eadu, That You Do, So Well"; includes "Death Star Motif" by John Williams) 8:05
10. "Krennic's Aspirations" ("Have a Choke and a Smile"; includes "Imperial Motif" and "The Imperial March" by John Williams) 4:16
11. "Rebellions Are Built on Hope" ("Erso in Vain") 2:56
12. "Rogue One" ("Takes One to Rogue One"; includes "The Force Theme" by John Williams) 2:04
13. "Cargo Shuttle SW-0608" ("World's Worst Vacation Destination") 3:59
14. "Scrambling the Rebel Fleet" ("Scarif Tactics"; includes "The Force Theme" and "Star Wars Main Theme" by John Williams) 1:33
15. "AT-ACT Assault" ("Bazed and Confused"; includes "Rebel Fanfare" and "Imperial Walkers" by John Williams) 2:55
16. "The Master Switch" ("Switch Hunt") 4:02
17. "Your Father Would Be Proud" ("Transmission Impossible") 4:51
18. "Hope" ("Live and Let Jedi"; includes "The Imperial March", "Death Star Motif", "Rebel Blockade Runner", and "The Force Theme" by John Williams) 1:37
19. "Jyn Erso and Hope Suite" 5:51
20. "The Imperial Suite" 2:29
21. "Guardians of the Whills Suite" 2:52
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Orbert on April 17, 2018, 01:05:38 PM
Most of those are pretty great! :lol
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: pg1067 on April 17, 2018, 06:24:15 PM
Perhaps the most important reason is that, in the OT, neither Obi Wan nor Vader appear to recognize the droids.  The EXTENSIVE and rather intimate interaction the two had with those two droids in the PT just doesn't make sense and appears to obviously retconned that it takes me out of the moment almost whenever they are onscreen in the PT.

Well...the whole thing about Obi-Wan claiming not to recall ever owning a droid has been the subject of tons of discussion online.  The most plausible explanation (IMO) is that he was being poker faced so as not to reveal too much to Luke too soon.  Obi-Wan's facial expression when he told Luke he didn't recall ever owning a droid was completely consistent with someone concealing something he didn't want to disclose.  After all, he lied to Luke about what happened to Anakin, so it's not too surprising that he wouldn't say, "Oh yeah!  Those are the droids I hung around with during the Battle of Naboo and the Clone Wars.  I had their memories wiped after your father turned into Darth Vader.  Oh, hey, fun fact:  your father actually built C3PO!  Small galaxy, eh?!"

As far as Darth Vader's seeming ignorance of the droids, I don't think Vader ever saw either of them in ANH (except maybe briefly after he killed Obi-Wan and everyone was running into the Millennium Falcon).  In Empire, Vader saw both of the droids in Cloud City, but what was he supposed to do, say, "Hey!  Those are MY droids!"  And, for all we know he was slack-jawed underneath his mask when he saw them.  By that point, why would he give a crap about a couple droids he owned before he became "more machine . . . than man."  He had actively buried his prior identity as Anakin, so any sort of emotional reaction on seeing the droids would have been grossly inconsistent with the character.

So, from that point of view, I don't think any of this is problematic.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Polarbear on April 18, 2018, 04:36:57 AM
Bought TLJ on blu ray, and finally had the chance to watch the feature length documentary. One of the best "making of" documentary's made about a SW movie, and just a plain great documentary period!

It was great to see Rian Johnson and the producer Ram Bergman, being like kids lost in a candy store! An indie director and producer with no experience with large productions, just going at it. Say what you want about the film, but Johnson and Bergman were swinging for the fences, during every single day of the production. Rian stood 100% behind his vision, and it shows!

Some of The Last Jedi worked for me, some it didn't. But even after another rewatch, I still like it very much.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Orbert on April 18, 2018, 07:12:43 AM
That's one thing I've gotten from pretty much everything I've read about Rian Johnson.  Whether you think he's a genius, completely shit on what The Force Awakens had set up, or anything in between, he definitely had his vision and went for it.  He's shown a true love of the Star Wars universe and franchise, and got his chance to make a Star Wars movie and did it, his way.  Whether or not one might agree with any given thing he did, well, that's down to individual taste and experience.

A lot of The Last Jedi was pretty cool, some of it didn't really work for me, and the rest is somewhere in between.  Overall, it was entertaining and I try not to think about the flaws too much.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: BlackInk on April 18, 2018, 08:57:36 AM
Michael Giacchino is often pretty funny with his track titles. Just look up his stuff for the new Planet of the Apes movies.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Accelerando on April 21, 2018, 05:30:33 PM
I finally saw the picture that Empire put out of Paul Bettany standing near the Mandalorian armor. I know a lot of people are speculating thatís how Boba Fett might get his armor, but Iím thinking, based on the scars on Bettanyís face, that he is playing a Mandalorian warlord, and he probably came across some Jedi in his characters backstory. If thereís any connection to Boba Fett, it will be through Bettanyís character. The seeds of Hanís rivalry with Fett could be at play here. If the film warrents it, I rather another adventure of Young Han Solo and Chewie with Boba as an antagonist rather than a solo Boba Fett movie.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: ganpondorodf on April 24, 2018, 04:31:33 PM
Did Han Solo and Boba Fett have any kind of long standing connection? I just assumed Boba Fett was a random bounty hunter with some nifty armor
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: BlackInk on April 25, 2018, 12:26:24 AM
I donít know, the only thing that could hint at that that can think of is just before Boba Fett dies Chewie yells something about him and Han seems to know the name. I also assume itís possible that theyíve run into each other while both doing work for Jabba.

Also, saw The Last Jedi again for the first time since the theater. Every subsequent viewing of this movie pretty much cements my initial sentiment: much to love, much to hate, probably making it the most difficult Star Wars movie to actually pin down how I feel about it overall because of how vastly uneven its quality is.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: bosk1 on April 25, 2018, 02:43:06 PM
Periodically, when I think about Star Wars, I often stop and wonder--why doesn't Chewbacca wear any pants?
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: PowerSlave on April 25, 2018, 05:49:41 PM
Periodically, when I think about Star Wars, I often stop and wonder--why doesn't Chewbacca wear any pants?

He's a hippy free love child. It explains all of the hair...
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: gmillerdrake on April 25, 2018, 06:44:48 PM
The end of season 2 is fantastic. By any standard. The rest of the show is as you've described, sometimes good, sometimes a bit silly.
I'd have to watch the series again to say for sure, but based on memory season 2 is best probably because of Ahsoka and Vader. Season 1 is easily weakest season of the show.

I'm 8 Episodes in to season 2 and really enjoying it.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: BlobVanDam on April 25, 2018, 11:44:18 PM
Periodically, when I think about Star Wars, I often stop and wonder--why doesn't Chewbacca wear any pants?

According to the EU book "Secrets of the Kashyyyk", Wookiees have retractable penises that only extend during extended foreplay of several hours, with their sexual encounters lasting several days, so they typically don't have any visible genitalia to cover up under most circumstances.
Also Wookiees have extremely sensitive fur that they use to detect subtle disruptions in localized conditions such as invaders moving through a forest, which is what makes them such a good warrior race. Wearing clothes apparently interferes with that.




Also I just made that all up, but it's probably the kind of thing they'd stick in the EU anyway.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: bosk1 on April 26, 2018, 08:44:53 AM
:lol

Even if all that were true (and part of me oh so wishes that it is!), there is still the issue of unwanted wookie butt sweat everywhere they sit.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: BlobVanDam on April 26, 2018, 08:51:48 AM
Chewbacca's bandolier is actually full of wipes to remove unwanted butt sweat. Read the EU some time, people.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: bosk1 on April 26, 2018, 09:12:51 AM
I confess that I hadn't even considered that possibility.


By the way, what prompted my post was an article in my newsfeed yesterday titled "Fully Shaved Chewbacca Is The Most Horrifying Thing Ever."  :lol
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Orbert on April 26, 2018, 11:01:19 AM
By the way, what prompted my post was an article in my newsfeed yesterday titled "Fully Shaved Chewbacca Is The Most Horrifying Thing Ever."  :lol

There are many things on the Internet that I would not even considering clicking.  This is one of them.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: bosk1 on April 26, 2018, 11:58:13 AM
:lol  Same here.  But I found the title quite amusing.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: MirrorMask on May 04, 2018, 03:42:59 AM
May the Fourth be with you  :tup
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: PowerSlave on May 04, 2018, 03:59:32 AM
By the way, what prompted my post was an article in my newsfeed yesterday titled "Fully Shaved Chewbacca Is The Most Horrifying Thing Ever."  :lol

There are many things on the Internet that I would not even considering clicking.  This is one of them.

Turns out that it was actually a picture of my ex mother in law. She's been letting herself go, lately.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: TheOutlawXanadu on May 04, 2018, 10:16:59 AM
May the Fourth be with you  :tup

And to you as well! I think it's been a weird six months for Star Wars fans, but at the end of the day, I will always cherish my once-a-year marathon of the original trilogy. It allows for me to reconnect with my childhood in a way that is hard to replicate elsewhere. And also... Lightsabers. They're pretty cool.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: ariich on May 11, 2018, 10:10:41 AM
First reactions to Solo are rather positive so far!
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Adami on May 11, 2018, 10:13:28 AM
First reactions to Solo are rather positive so far!

Indeed! Minus the first act, which I've read (in most reviews) is not great, but that it picks up.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: gmillerdrake on May 24, 2018, 09:59:47 AM
Anyone else going to see ĎSoloí tonight? Iím taking the kiddos to an 8:30 show.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: The Trooper on May 24, 2018, 12:10:21 PM
Saw it last night. Agree the beginning is slow but it picks up. It is what it is, nothing great but not horrible.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: kaos2900 on May 24, 2018, 12:18:01 PM
When people say the first half is slow is that bad thing? Sometimes I actually like character development which some people consider slow. Or is it slow as in boring/poorly paced?
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: The Trooper on May 24, 2018, 12:25:54 PM
kind of a mix of all that .for me it just dragged.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: pg1067 on May 24, 2018, 12:34:58 PM
I'm going Saturday evening with my kids.  The wife took a pass.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: jingle.boy on May 24, 2018, 08:38:23 PM
jingle.son saw it with friends and just got in.  Said it was just a smidge above 'ok'.  I'll probably go see it Tuesday, jingle.son isn't sure he wants/needs to see it a 2nd time.  So I might be going .... wait for it ....

Solo.  :neverusethis
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: gmillerdrake on May 24, 2018, 10:20:24 PM
Just got back, I thought it was good. It was fun and entertaining. Kids loved it and I bought that was a young Han and young Lando.

It didnít redefine anything by any means nor did it stand out as some Ďall time greatí but Iíd see it again.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: lordxizor on May 25, 2018, 05:16:25 AM
I liked it as well. Definitely the worst of the four Disney Star Wars films, but it was still good. I went in with low expectations and it exceeded those. If it does we'll financially I fully expect a Han Solo Trilogy.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: kaos2900 on May 25, 2018, 06:44:17 AM
I've heard mostly positive things. Though it will be awhile before I get to see it.

Sounds like there will be an Obi-Wan movie that takes place before Episode 4 and Bobba Fett movie. I'm hoping Disney has the balls to make a rated R Bobba Fett movie that is dark and gritty.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: gmillerdrake on May 25, 2018, 07:36:25 AM
I'm curious as to how the re-introduction of Darth Maul will incorporate into future films....if it does at all. Or if it was just thrown in there to make sure a SW film had a light saber fire up? He had his metal legs so this film took place some time after Clone Wars.....and obviously prior to ANH. Could he be used in the Obi Wan spin off or if they do a Boba Fett one?
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Destiny Of Chaos on May 25, 2018, 07:41:11 AM


HOLY FUCK! The one time I read a spoiler on this forum!

I've got to see this movie now.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Grappler on May 25, 2018, 08:01:14 AM
I read the full plot summary this morning, since making it to a theater is pretty much impossible for me now.  It seems like everything I'd want from a story about Han Solo.  I'm looking forward to renting it.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: gmillerdrake on May 25, 2018, 08:12:39 AM


HOLY FUCK! The one time I read a spoiler on this forum!

I've got to see this movie now.

Aww man....sorry. I was hoping the small font wouldn't be too enticing. However, I don't think that will ruin the film for you as what I eluded to is a very small....yet cool....part of the film.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Destiny Of Chaos on May 25, 2018, 08:15:41 AM


HOLY FUCK! The one time I read a spoiler on this forum!

I've got to see this movie now.

Aww man....sorry. I was hoping the small font wouldn't be too enticing. However, I don't think that will ruin the film for you as what I eluded to is a very small....yet cool....part of the film.

No need to apologize. I know what small font means, and 99 out of 100 times I scroll right past it... but I said to myself "There's nothing happening in Solo that I would be pissed about it being spoiled".  That'll teach me!
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: gmillerdrake on May 25, 2018, 08:16:55 AM
I read the full plot summary this morning, since making it to a theater is pretty much impossible for me now.  It seems like everything I'd want from a story about Han Solo.  I'm looking forward to renting it.

My 10 year old said it was his favorite SW film that he's seen recently......as far as R1 and TLJ. He really liked it.

I think the 'lowered expectations' and lack of massive hype and over thought fan theories really helps this film just be a good....fun, movie. Alden Ehrenreich did a pretty good job of portraying Han Solo. He was believable and that was my largest concern going in but I think he got it.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: lordxizor on May 25, 2018, 09:47:01 AM
I thought Ehrenreich did a pretty good job. I totally bought him as a younger Han who is still building up that confidence and swagger he has in ANH.

Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Accelerando on May 25, 2018, 11:51:27 AM
Agreed. Ehrenreich was an excellent young Han. However, it took a moment for me to get settled with him as Han.

With Donald Glover as Lando, that wasnít the case. He hit the ground running the moment heís on screen!
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: gmillerdrake on May 25, 2018, 12:03:35 PM
Agreed. Ehrenreich was an excellent young Han. However, it took a moment for me to get settled with him as Han.

With Donald Glover as Lando, that wasnít the case. He hit the ground running the moment heís on screen!

Agreed. After Ehrenreich nailed a couple mannerisms once he met up with Emily Clark it started to settle in.

But with Glover as Lando.....even before we see him as you hear his voice it sounded like Billy Dee Williams...same tone....same dialect mannerisms. It was uncanny.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Logain Ablar on May 25, 2018, 02:25:49 PM
Iíll most likely be going to see it tomorrow night with the kids. I think ďlowered expectationsĒ is the key for me. Iím not expecting to be blown away, but if itís a good fun adventure  then thatís a result.

No spoilers, but for those who have seen it, do you think thereís enough scope for more movies with the same cast? I read that Ehrenreich has signed on for 3 movies, but maybe thatís just standard practice these days.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: gmillerdrake on May 25, 2018, 03:18:02 PM
No spoilers, but for those who have seen it, do you think thereís enough scope for more movies with the same cast? I read that Ehrenreich has signed on for 3 movies, but maybe thatís just standard practice these days.

I would say 'yes'.....merely because unlike 'Rouge One' and the main series......this movie really didn't have anything that impacted the 'main' storyline of what we know of the SW universe other than revealing how Han and Chewie met....and how they obtained the Falcon (which we already knew)  It really was just a 'run of the mill' action/adventure movie and it worked. They did a good enough job with the injection of a character or two to where they could explore some particular loose ends should they choose....but it's not mandatory IMO.

I could see a future 'Solo' movie or two where you're just seeing Han and Chewie as they build their legacy so to speak.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Ninjabait on May 25, 2018, 04:29:03 PM


HOLY FUCK! The one time I read a spoiler on this forum!

I've got to see this movie now.

No kidding! I was barely interested in this movie, but reading that DEFINITELY piqued my interest. I probably still won't see it in theaters, but I'll definitely get it rent it comes out on DVD/steaming now.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Logain Ablar on May 26, 2018, 04:49:04 PM
I took the kids to see it tonight. Yeah, pretty good, once it gets going. The first 15 mins or so are a bit clunky, especially the dialogue, but it settles down.

Characters were decent - Beckett, Qira and Dryden Vos (sp. ?) served their purposes and were given enough to do. Donald Glover was great as Lando, I just wish we hadíve seen a bit more of him.

Han and Chewieís introduction worked well, and the dynamic between was good. Fair play to Alden Ehrenreich - I definitely donít think he has the charm and charisma of Harrison Ford (who does?), but he did a decent job with the character.

Oh, and *that* cameo. Iím glad I didnít read the tiny letters further up this thread. Initially, Iím not really sure it was a good idea, but Iíll take some time to process it.

All things considered, not wonderful, but decent, and definitely not the train wreck it could have been.

And to answer my own question from before: yes, I think thereís enough to build on for another movie or two.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Skeever on May 26, 2018, 11:15:12 PM
I've more or less "liked" all the Star Wars movies to date (yes, ALL), but this was the first that just completely underwhelmed.

I just felt nothing, at the end. No joy, no curiosity, no sadness, nothing at all. Feels like so much great lore was squandered on a movie where the filming just got out of control. They should have pushed it back, because it wasn't ready, and they wasted a lot of potential as well as a great cast on a below average movie.

10/10s
ESB
ANH

8 or 9/10s
TLJ
ROTJ
TFA

7/10s
ROTS
RO

6/10s
TPM

5/10s
AOTC

4/10s
SOLO
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: MetalJunkie on May 26, 2018, 11:39:43 PM
I've more or less "liked" all the Star Wars movies to date (yes, ALL), but this was the first that just completely underwhelmed.
You seem to be in the minority. 7.1 on imdb, 71% on rottentomatoes, and everyone I've talked to/seen it with loves it so far. I liked it better than Rogue One, Last Jedi, and all the prequels.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: lordxizor on May 27, 2018, 08:30:54 AM
So it sounds like Solo is not doing particularly well at the box office despite decent reviews and pretty much everyone I've heard thinking it was good. I'll be curious how this plays out for future Solo sequels, which were clearly planned.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Skeever on May 27, 2018, 09:23:02 AM
I've more or less "liked" all the Star Wars movies to date (yes, ALL), but this was the first that just completely underwhelmed.
You seem to be in the minority. 7.1 on imdb, 71% on rottentomatoes, and everyone I've talked to/seen it with loves it so far. I liked it better than Rogue One, Last Jedi, and all the prequels.

The audience score on Rotten Tomatoes is 58% so...

It seems just as divisive as the Last Jedi without the insane critical praise TLJ got.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Polarbear on May 27, 2018, 11:23:47 AM
Saw Solo today, it was pretty much what I expected!

It was fun! Ehrenreich did to Han Solo, pretty much exactly what Chris Pine did to Kirk, he was good. Glover was fantastic just as I expected!

The much talked about cameo, felt a little forced imo. Although It technically makes sense in the grand scheme of things, with he's other appearances in the animated shows etc.

7/10 for me. It's pretty remarkable that the movie was not pushed back, considering the production issues. It felt like a complete movie.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Podaar on May 27, 2018, 01:17:50 PM
I really enjoyed Solo a lot. A very fun movie and I think it's the first Ron Howard directed movie that enjoyed in quite a while.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Ninjabait on May 27, 2018, 07:03:42 PM
Haven't seen Solo yet, but here'd be my ranking of the different Star Wars movies:

4.5/5ish:
Rogue One
The Force Awakens
Empire Strikes Back
Return of the Jedi
The Last Jedi
Revenge of the Sith

4/5ish:
A New Hope

3.5/5ish
The Phantom Menace
Attack of the Clones

imo Rogue One is seriously underrated.

So it sounds like Solo is not doing particularly well at the box office despite decent reviews and pretty much everyone I've heard thinking it was good. I'll be curious how this plays out for future Solo sequels, which were clearly planned.

Well, keep in mind that it has to compete with the tail end of Infinity War (which is STILL crushing almost everything a month later), as well as Deadpool 2. It got released at a really terrible time tbh and word of mouth hasn't kicked in yet.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: ronnibran on May 28, 2018, 07:06:10 AM
I thought the Solo movie was great.  I didn't like Rogue One when I first saw it (I think it's decent now but in my SW rankings it's still at the bottom).  Didn't like The Last Jedi (now I like it, although it's in my lower half of SW rankings).

Without spoiling anything, I thought they did a really good job with the story.  There were some things I'd assumed would happen in the film and they did it in a way that was really nice.  And the cameo was great.

Can't wait to see it again, but will probably wait for it to come out on video now.

My current ranking (take the Solo rank with grain of salt since I've only seen it once):

New Hope
Force Awakens
Return of the Jedi
Empire Strikes Back
Solo
Revenge of the Sith
Last Jedi
Attack of the Clones
Phantom Menace
Rogue One
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: kaos2900 on May 29, 2018, 08:18:38 AM
I plan on seeing Solo but I'm not surprised at the numbers. I said before that they made a mistake releasing in May. They should have pushed it to the fall when there was less competition and was farther away from The Last Jedi.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: gmillerdrake on May 29, 2018, 08:33:14 AM
I plan on seeing Solo but I'm not surprised at the numbers. I said before that they made a mistake releasing in May. They should have pushed it to the fall when there was less competition and was farther away from The Last Jedi.

Yeah....that has always been a curious decision. I wonder if they just chose to do that so there'd be more time between Solo and Ep. 9....maybe help 'build' anticipation for that one? Who knows. All I know is that Solo was a pretty solid effort and enjoyable movie and it's a bummer the numbers aren't there for it.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: lonestar on May 29, 2018, 08:48:25 AM
Going to see it today, I have zero expectations and am just going for some good old 'pew pew pew' fun, so I expect to leave happy. I also wonder at the release date, they had to know Infinity War would be killing it for a while, with Deadpool to boot.




Also, saw this on FB, and had to share...

(https://scontent.fsnc1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/33892847_10155313660065759_5509695664918888448_n.jpg?_nc_cat=0&oh=256b873b278f62de27d114bb7fe7cfb6&oe=5BBC8D69)
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Grappler on May 29, 2018, 08:51:33 AM
Yeah....that has always been a curious decision. I wonder if they just chose to do that so there'd be more time between Solo and Ep. 9....maybe help 'build' anticipation for that one? Who knows. All I know is that Solo was a pretty solid effort and enjoyable movie and it's a bummer the numbers aren't there for it.

I think this was the primary factor:

Star Wars: A New Hope:   May 20, 1977

Solo: A Star Wars Story:   May 20, 2018


The Friday release date lined up nicely, 41 years later.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: lonestar on May 29, 2018, 08:56:44 AM
Ahhh, that makes some sense.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: gmillerdrake on May 29, 2018, 11:14:05 AM
I've been having a small Twitter conversation with a local movie reviewer who is a huge SW fan and a really good 'movie' guy.....where I suggested that Disney needs to abandon the 'kid' friendliness of the SW movies when it comes to the Boba Fett stand alone movie and shoot for a gritty, dark R or NC-17. Something, tough and rugged.....ala 'Sicario' or 'Heat'. Really get into the criminal aspect of things.

I'm all for marketing towards kids and what not but given that Disney has SO many characters...stories....etc etc they can do that with I say take a gamble with the Boba Fett story
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: kaos2900 on May 29, 2018, 11:18:14 AM
I've been having a small Twitter conversation with a local movie reviewer who is a huge SW fan and a really good 'movie' guy.....where I suggested that Disney needs to abandon the 'kid' friendliness of the SW movies when it comes to the Boba Fett stand alone movie and shoot for a gritty, dark R or NC-17. Something, tough and rugged.....ala 'Sicario' or 'Heat'. Really get into the criminal aspect of things.

I'm all for marketing towards kids and what not but given that Disney has SO many characters...stories....etc etc they can do that with I say take a gamble with the Boba Fett story

100% agree.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: pg1067 on May 29, 2018, 11:54:48 AM
I saw Solo on Saturday.  I was underwhelmed.  Not bad, but I think my overall impression is that this was an origin story that really didn't need to be told.  I also felt like the movie was fairly generic, in the sense that the story didn't feel like it could only have been about Han Solo.  Change Chewbacca and the Falcon to some other sidekick and ship, and this could have be just any other space story.  I was also confused by big surprise toward the end because I haven't seen either Clone Wars or Rebels.  Maybe I'll get into those some day, but I'm going to be somewhat unhappy if they start pulling stuff for the moves from the "extended universe" (or whatever the proper term is).  Maybe I'll feel differently about this movie if there are sequels, but right now, I wouldn't rank this terribly highly.

By the way, if coinciding with the release date of ANH was really "the primary factor" in deciding when to release this movie, that's just nuts.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: kingshmegland on May 29, 2018, 12:25:56 PM
I've been having a small Twitter conversation with a local movie reviewer who is a huge SW fan and a really good 'movie' guy.....where I suggested that Disney needs to abandon the 'kid' friendliness of the SW movies when it comes to the Boba Fett stand alone movie and shoot for a gritty, dark R or NC-17. Something, tough and rugged.....ala 'Sicario' or 'Heat'. Really get into the criminal aspect of things.

I'm all for marketing towards kids and what not but given that Disney has SO many characters...stories....etc etc they can do that with I say take a gamble with the Boba Fett story

Like the new Muppets movie coming out Gary?! :lol  Have you seen the trailer?
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Polarbear on May 29, 2018, 12:40:45 PM
I've been having a small Twitter conversation with a local movie reviewer who is a huge SW fan and a really good 'movie' guy.....where I suggested that Disney needs to abandon the 'kid' friendliness of the SW movies when it comes to the Boba Fett stand alone movie and shoot for a gritty, dark R or NC-17. Something, tough and rugged.....ala 'Sicario' or 'Heat'. Really get into the criminal aspect of things.

I'm all for marketing towards kids and what not but given that Disney has SO many characters...stories....etc etc they can do that with I say take a gamble with the Boba Fett story

Disagree with you on this one..

We definitely don't need an rated R Star Wars movie. A little bit darker, sure. But not rated R.

Rated R Star Wars goes against the original vision of Lucas, who has said multiple times over the years, that Star Wars is a kids movie first and foremost.

Like I said, a little darker is fine but not hard R.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: gmillerdrake on May 29, 2018, 01:04:55 PM
I've been having a small Twitter conversation with a local movie reviewer who is a huge SW fan and a really good 'movie' guy.....where I suggested that Disney needs to abandon the 'kid' friendliness of the SW movies when it comes to the Boba Fett stand alone movie and shoot for a gritty, dark R or NC-17. Something, tough and rugged.....ala 'Sicario' or 'Heat'. Really get into the criminal aspect of things.

I'm all for marketing towards kids and what not but given that Disney has SO many characters...stories....etc etc they can do that with I say take a gamble with the Boba Fett story

Disagree with you on this one..

We definitely don't need an rated R Star Wars movie. A little bit darker, sure. But not rated R.

Rated R Star Wars goes against the original vision of Lucas, who has said multiple times over the years, that Star Wars is a kids movie first and foremost.

Like I said, a little darker is fine but not hard R.

Maybe not a 'hard R'.....but I'm thinking something more gritty than R1. Just a change of pace and different take. I get that the original vision was a kids movie but given how saturated the SW market is now and is going to continue to be you have to start thinking about using different approaches on some of these movies. They can't all be pillow fights and tickle wars.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: pg1067 on May 29, 2018, 01:19:36 PM
They can't all be pillow fights and tickle wars.

Back in the 90s, I read a bunch of Star Wars novels (which I guess no longer officially exist).  I remember the Thrawn novels being REALLY good (and would make great movies), but there was one (don't remember the name) that centered around the discovery that Han Solo was actually the "King of Corellia."  I don't remember the plot, but I thought back to that plot when the new Solo film opened on Corellia.  The other thing I recall was that C3PO made up a song that went something like, "Han Solo; what a man, Solo."  I assume this was before Han and Leia married and was designed to incline her towards Han, but it was SO ham-handed.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: lonestar on May 29, 2018, 03:58:34 PM
Just got out of Solo. Pretty much what I expected, entertaining in a way only a Star Wars movie can be, predictable with a few surprises (hard not to be predictable when you know exactly where the hero is supposed to end up), but nothing earth shattering. Did enjoy the cameo, though it confused the shit out of me until a little google search showed it was possible. Doubt I'll see it again until it comes out on video.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: MetalJunkie on May 31, 2018, 10:32:47 PM
I've more or less "liked" all the Star Wars movies to date (yes, ALL), but this was the first that just completely underwhelmed.
You seem to be in the minority. 7.1 on imdb, 71% on rottentomatoes, and everyone I've talked to/seen it with loves it so far. I liked it better than Rogue One, Last Jedi, and all the prequels.

The audience score on Rotten Tomatoes is 58% so...

It seems just as divisive as the Last Jedi without the insane critical praise TLJ got.
It's up to 63. Seems this movie started out low and moved UP in ratings. I think everyone voted before seeing it, then people who liked it started weighing in to bring the average up. It started out with a mid 6 on imdb.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: kaos2900 on June 01, 2018, 07:36:39 AM
I still plan on seeing this but I've not heard any really negative reviews from people who have seen it. I think the poor numbers are attributed to poor scheduling on Disney's end. There was no need to release this in such a crowded time at the box office. I bet it would have done way better in the fall or even December. It's not like Disney is hurting after Avengers and they have Incredibles 2 and Ant Man and the Wasp coming soon. I bet it actually does pretty well over the weekend.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Accelerando on June 02, 2018, 01:43:49 PM
I think itís a mix of both scheduling AND marketing. We got the first teaser for Solo only a few months ago during the Superbowl. What made the previous Disney era films so successful was building that anticipation. The trailer release during Celebration in a hall with thousands of Star Wars fans, and then another one a few months after. The music choices that evoked nostalgia also included both Leiaís and Reyís theme. They were able to strategically stretch it out nearly flawlessy...until Solo because it was released 5 months after The Last Jedi.

I think the firing of Lord and Miller, Colon Travorrow, and also Josh Trank with the Boba Fett movie messed up Disneyís strategy. If I remember correctly, Episode 9 was suppose to start filming last year for a 2018 release, The Last Jedi was suppose to have a May 2017 release, and Solo was suppose to be December 2018.

This is where im in agreement with Kristian Harloff over at Collider. Kathleen Kennedy is a terrific producer, but isnít the Kevin Feige type of storyteller these films need if we are going to start getting two films a year. And this where Iíd like to see Dave Filoni take the reigns of that role and guide these movies.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: ariich on June 02, 2018, 02:34:05 PM
I was also confused by big surprise toward the end because I haven't seen either Clone Wars or Rebels.  Maybe I'll get into those some day, but I'm going to be somewhat unhappy if they start pulling stuff for the moves from the "extended universe" (or whatever the proper term is).
Just to clarify that Clone Wars and Rebels aren't "extended universe", they're official canon as far as I know. Other than the movies, I think they're only other canon products.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: axeman90210 on June 02, 2018, 07:52:14 PM
Caught Solo last night, and I'm not sure if lowered expectations played into it but I came out pretty happy with it. Donald Glover was definitely the highlight, though I quite enjoyed Paul Bettany's role as well.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: kaos2900 on June 04, 2018, 07:39:43 AM

SPOLIERS


Saw Solo on Friday and I feel like I need to see it again to form a proper opinion. I enjoyed it and it was definitely not a bad film, but I still feel like it's my least favorite Star Wars film after one viewing. The whole story just seemed unnecessary. It was basically a two hour story showing how Han met Chewie and Lando. There were good action scenes and had it's funny moments but it just felt off a bit. Disney would have been better off making this move all about Quira. I think fans are ready for NEW stories with NEW characters. Rogue One was great and successful. There are plenty of character cameos that could be used like in Rogue One and Rebels. I hope after episode 9 this is the direction they go. I could be down for Bobba Fett if it's a dark hard PG-13 or R and Obi-Wan would be good ONLY if Ewan Mcgregor returns.

Honestly, I'm much more interested in what could be a followup film. I'd love to see Quira go to Dathomir with Maul and see her turn full on evil. Solo could have a small role or maybe even have this merge into the Bobba Fett film.

Disney is kicking themselves in the ass over this one though. I bet they double their profits if it releases in December. They'll still get a ton of money once it's released on blu-ray/digital but I'm guessing a direct sequel is not going to happen.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: pg1067 on June 04, 2018, 10:36:46 AM
I was also confused by big surprise toward the end because I haven't seen either Clone Wars or Rebels.  Maybe I'll get into those some day, but I'm going to be somewhat unhappy if they start pulling stuff for the moves from the "extended universe" (or whatever the proper term is).
Just to clarify that Clone Wars and Rebels aren't "extended universe", they're official canon as far as I know. Other than the movies, I think they're only other canon products.

"Canon"..."extended universe"...whatever.  While I understand what Disney did in terms of decreeing these cartoon series to be "canon" -- thereby technically making them fair game to draw from for the movies -- I'm guessing that a strong majority of otherwise devout Star Wars fans (like me) have never seen a single second of any of these cartoons.  That becomes a big problem when they pull something from the cartoons that appears to be complete nonsense to someone who has only seen the movies.  I saw Solo on 5/25, and my wife (who has also never seen anything other than the movies) saw it last Thursday.  She had a different interpretation of the scene under discussion, and, when I explained to her what was actually going on (based on research I did after seeing it myself), she thought it was completely B.S. and has now basically sworn off further Disney Star Wars product.

How much of this supposed "canon" do I need to digest for future movies to make sense?  Apparently there's two separate "Clone Wars" series (25 and 121 episodes) and something called "Rebels" (75 episodes) and something coming later this year called "Resistance"?  Are all of these things "canon" that I'll need to watch on the off chance that some future movie won't make sense if I don't?

This isn't yet a problem for me, but the need to have pre-existing knowledge from thousands of comic books contributed in large part to my quick loss of interest in the various Marvel/DC movies.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Grappler on June 04, 2018, 11:23:11 AM
This isn't yet a problem for me, but the need to have pre-existing knowledge from thousands of comic books contributed in large part to my quick loss of interest in the various Marvel/DC movies.

Says who?  I don't read comics at all and I can enjoy the movies just fine.  Do I miss little easter eggs in the movie that a comic reader would notice?  Sure?  Does it make the movie worse for me?  Not at all.  They're fantastic films, and not watching them because I don't have time to read EVERY comic book associated with the stories is extremely silly.  Just watch them and enjoy them for what they are.

I don't watch any other Star Wars shows aside from the main films.  Maybe the Solo cameo scene would confuse me, since the last I've seen of that character was very definitive in preventing them from coming back, but the internet is fully available and ready for me to figure out how and why they are back.

It is entirely possible to not consume 100% of the "canon" materials from a franchise and still enjoy watching the films.  That's what I do and it works out well.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: pg1067 on June 04, 2018, 12:36:22 PM
This isn't yet a problem for me, but the need to have pre-existing knowledge from thousands of comic books contributed in large part to my quick loss of interest in the various Marvel/DC movies.

Says who?

Says me.  Since my comments that you quoted are exclusively about my personal enjoyment of Star Wars movies and my lack of enjoyment of the various superhero movies, my opinions are the only ones that matter.  I cannot, of course, speak for anyone else.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: gmillerdrake on June 04, 2018, 01:03:34 PM
I think it's a bummer that Clone Wars and Rebels aren't as 'well known' as the movies because there are some really cool characters in them. As Bosk and others have pointed out anytime I mention a spin off concerning any of those characters.....they use basically your (pg1067) point of view as the perfect example of why they won't work. Not enough fans 'know' about CW's or Rebels....which would make those movies a tough sell. Which is unfortunate because there's a ton of potential there.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: pg1067 on June 04, 2018, 01:56:21 PM
I think it's a bummer that Clone Wars and Rebels aren't as 'well known' as the movies because there are some really cool characters in them. As Bosk and others have pointed out anytime I mention a spin off concerning any of those characters.....they use basically your (pg1067) point of view as the perfect example of why they won't work. Not enough fans 'know' about CW's or Rebels....which would make those movies a tough sell. Which is unfortunate because there's a ton of potential there.

It would be one thing if they took something from one of the Cartoons and put it in a movie with enough explanation for it to make sense.  The problem is putting something in a movie (Solo) that makes absolutely no sense based on the existing movies.  From what I've read, the explanation of what we're alluding to seems awfully far-fetched, and that's my wife's point of view.  Maybe I'll try out the Clone Wars over the summer while none of my regular prime time shows are active.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: lordxizor on June 04, 2018, 02:03:57 PM
I assume that Solo 2 would have done some explaining of Maul and how he is still alive since even Disney is smart enough to realize most people don't watch the animated tv shows. I viewed the reveal of Maul being a WTF moment that would be further explained in future movies. I think it's unlikely at this point Solo 2 ever gets made but who knows. Though a movie with Maul and Ki'ra being badass gangsters that we love to hate would be kind of interesting.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: gmillerdrake on June 04, 2018, 02:04:33 PM
Maybe I'll try out the Clone Wars over the summer while none of my regular prime time shows are active.

It's a pretty cool show. I'd say 80% of it is worth it. They throw in episodes here and there that are duds but all in all it's neat. And, they're only like 22 minutes long each so you can jam out a few in the same amount of time if you were watching a movie. The best thing about Clone Wars is the fact you get to see Anakin in action as a full on Jedi and warrior prior to him turning to the Dark Side.

I'm half way through Season 3 of Rebels and it's about the same. There are some cool episodes then some that are just 'filler'.


But I totally get where you and your wife are coming from.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: bosk1 on June 04, 2018, 02:25:33 PM
The best thing about Clone Wars is the fact you get to see Anakin in action as a full on Jedi and warrior prior to him turning to the Dark Side.

I would say similar things about the way a lot of the characters (Obi-Wan, Dooku, Grievous) are handled.  Taken together with the PT, it really does flesh out the PT and make those films "better" and smooth over some of the problems.  It still feels somewhat reconned.  But it does help. 

@pg1067, not sure what Marvel TV shows, if any, you have followed.  But I would compare it somewhat with Agents of SHIELD.  It provides a lot of backstory and universe expanding with what is going on in the Marvel films, but isn't essential viewing for any of them.  On the other hand, you have TV shows like Daredevil, and Jessica Jones, etc. that are MUCH more stand-alone--at least, in terms of not really being tied into the films much at all.  The Clone Wars is in the vein of AOS.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: pg1067 on June 04, 2018, 04:09:40 PM
@pg1067, not sure what Marvel TV shows, if any, you have followed.  But I would compare it somewhat with Agents of SHIELD.  It provides a lot of backstory and universe expanding with what is going on in the Marvel films, but isn't essential viewing for any of them.  On the other hand, you have TV shows like Daredevil, and Jessica Jones, etc. that are MUCH more stand-alone--at least, in terms of not really being tied into the films much at all.  The Clone Wars is in the vein of AOS.

Let's put it this way:  according to Wikipedia, there are 19 movies to date in the "Marvel Cinematic Universe."  I believe I have seen 11 or 12 of those, with the last being Civil War.  I am familiar that some TV shows exist, but I've never watched any of them.

Part of my reluctance with the Star Wars cartoon series is that I didn't think much of the Clone Wars movie.  We'll see.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: bosk1 on June 04, 2018, 04:39:23 PM
Just for clarification, are you talking about The Clone Wars animated movie or Attack of the Clones?  The series is much better than at least the first two films of the prequel trilogy, and perhaps better than the third (depending on who you ask).  I don't have a really clear recollection of the quality of the animated Clone Wars film, but seem to recall that it felt kind of like a "warmup" for the series.  It was decent, but not great.  And like a lot of series, it took a little while to get going and get its feet.  But once it got going, I felt it was pretty good.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: pg1067 on June 04, 2018, 05:09:46 PM
Just for clarification, are you talking about The Clone Wars animated movie or Attack of the Clones?

The former (although I didn't think much of Attack of the Clones either).


I don't have a really clear recollection of the quality of the animated Clone Wars film, but seem to recall that it felt kind of like a "warmup" for the series.  It was decent, but not great.  And like a lot of series, it took a little while to get going and get its feet.  But once it got going, I felt it was pretty good.

I would say the animated movie was decent at best.  I don't remember it well either, but what I do remember is that it felt a bit ham-handed and the female jedi apprentice was annoying.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: bosk1 on June 04, 2018, 05:18:34 PM
I just looked up the plot synopsis to refresh my memory.  Yeah, it wasn't very good.  I forgot that that was the baby Jabba episode.  And in fairness, I think there are episodes of TCW series that are of that quality.  But they are few and far between, especially once you get a few episodes in and it finds its feet.  The vast majority are a lot better than that.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: PowerSlave on June 04, 2018, 05:47:16 PM
I seen the movie last night. It appears that my opinion is vastly different than most people. I thought it was easily one of the best movies in the series. I would rank it around 4th or 5th.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Accelerando on June 04, 2018, 07:13:23 PM
I just realized, in The Empire Strikes Back, when C-3PO says "I don't know where your ship learned to communicate, but it has the most particular dialect"....he was absolutely referring to L3  :omg:
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: kaos2900 on June 05, 2018, 07:41:29 AM
There is no doubt in my mind that The Clone Wars series easily made Episode I and Episode II better. There are a few dud episodes as mentioned but on the whole it totally worth checking out. Same goes for Rebels.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: gmillerdrake on June 05, 2018, 08:12:29 AM
There is no doubt in my mind that The Clone Wars series easily made Episode I and Episode II better. There are a few dud episodes as mentioned but on the whole it totally worth checking out. Same goes for Rebels.

Yeah, I can agree.....a bit. I still don't like Ep. I and II all that much but at least Clone Wars 'helped' those movies out.

Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Phoenix87x on June 09, 2018, 04:53:06 AM
kathleen kennedy might be leaving

https://movieweb.com/kathleen-kennedy-leaving-lucasfilm-star-wars/
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: pg1067 on June 13, 2018, 10:27:57 AM
I just looked up the plot synopsis to refresh my memory.  Yeah, it wasn't very good.  I forgot that that was the baby Jabba episode.  And in fairness, I think there are episodes of TCW series that are of that quality.  But they are few and far between, especially once you get a few episodes in and it finds its feet.  The vast majority are a lot better than that.

I started watching The Clone Wars series a few days ago and am six episodes in.  The first episode was really bad.  It felt like the writer was trying to insert "Star Warsy" phrases at every opportunity and thought that to put the predicate of the sentence at the beginning is the only thing needed to write dialog for Yoda.  I almost gave up.  It's improving.  Although Ahsoka is still fairly annoying, they've managed to make Anakin into something other than a whiny, sand-hating bitch.  I found a chart titled "So you want to watch The Clone Wars but don't want to watch every episode."  I'll watch all of it, but I will be sure to pay a bit more attention to the "key" episodes.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Phoenix87x on June 15, 2018, 03:31:06 PM
Just watched solo. I enjoyed it quite a bit

I really loved Woody Harrelson's character.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: noxon on June 15, 2018, 06:01:44 PM
Just to clarify that Clone Wars and Rebels aren't "extended universe", they're official canon as far as I know. Other than the movies, I think they're only other canon products.

Clone Wars was the only non-movie product created before the disney acquisition that is considered canon. But everything produced after is canon too. That accounts for at least 30 books, and 400 comics (as released by Marvel), and Rebels.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Adami on June 15, 2018, 11:44:53 PM
Finally saw Solo.


Meh. I'd give it a C+ or so.

The main dude playing Han was good. Lando was great. In fact, most of the characters were good. The directing was mostly good as well. But the writing was just REALLY weak. I saw everything coming a mile away, and a ton of it made me cringe.

I know it's from the dude who wrote Empire, but this felt like a completely heartless and soulless movie. It's sad. But yea, not sure I'll even buy this on blu ray. Probably only better than Episodes II and III.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: T-ski on June 17, 2018, 06:19:13 PM
my kid took me to Solo for Fathers Day.

every time I saw Alden Ehrenreich I kept seeing a mix of a young Dennis Quaid and Bill Hader.  Movie was fun but pretty much paint by numbers.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Accelerando on June 20, 2018, 02:59:44 PM
Collider is reporting that LucasFilm is putting A Star Wars Story spin-offs on hold

http://collider.com/star-wars-spinoffs-on-hold/

The article says that the rumored Obi-Wan movie was in pre-production, and because of this decision, has been ultimately shut-down. Same with James Mangold Boba Fett film.

That does not mean LucasFilm won't be doing Star Wars Stories or will not revisit Obi-Wan/Boba Felt in the future. It just means at this point in time, the focus is on Episode 9 and the Rian Johnson trilogy.

In my opinion, this is a good thing. As the article states, the Star Wars Story films haven't exactly been produced smoothly. Josh Trank being fired and his Boba Fett movie being cancelled. Rogue One's reshoots. Solo's directors firing and extensive reshoots with Ron Howard. I think with a better plan for these films going forward, I think there will be a better reward and merit. 



Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: fadetoblackdude7 on June 20, 2018, 05:31:07 PM
If anything should be put on hold itís Rian Johnsonís movies. Make that permanently too.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Polarbear on June 21, 2018, 12:38:32 AM
Collider is reporting that LucasFilm is putting A Star Wars Story spin-offs on hold

http://collider.com/star-wars-spinoffs-on-hold/

The article says that the rumored Obi-Wan movie was in pre-production, and because of this decision, has been ultimately shut-down. Same with James Mangold Boba Fett film.

That does not mean LucasFilm won't be doing Star Wars Stories or will not revisit Obi-Wan/Boba Felt in the future. It just means at this point in time, the focus is on Episode 9 and the Rian Johnson trilogy.

In my opinion, this is a good thing. As the article states, the Star Wars Story films haven't exactly been produced smoothly. Josh Trank being fired and his Boba Fett movie being cancelled. Rogue One's reshoots. Solo's directors firing and extensive reshoots with Ron Howard. I think with a better plan for these films going forward, I think there will be a better reward and merit.

Assuming that this is true and not just a clickbait from Collider, this is a good thing.

Looking at the numbers, R1 and Solo didn't do as well as the new trilogy movies. So it makes business sense.

Hopefully they have realized that multiple SW movies a year, is a recipe for disaster. Return to releasing one movie a year, or every two years. They can build up the hype for each movie better that way. And good thing IMO that the Rian Johnson trilogy is still happening. I liked TLJ, and I'm interested to see what he does with a blank canvas.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Logain Ablar on June 21, 2018, 02:01:37 AM
If it's right, I can understand the decision to put the spin off movies on hold, but I think there would still be a reasonable amount of interest in an Obi-Wan movie. Solo was a bit of a risk, to introduce a brand new actor into an iconic role. Any potential Obi-Wan movie won't have that same risk, assuming Ewan has got the part already, but the challenge will be to create a story that's worth telling.

I think if they are taking time to focus on quality, rather than churning out a movie every year or so, then that's gotta be a good thing.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: kaos2900 on June 21, 2018, 06:38:49 AM
I'd love to see a continuation of the Solo story based on Q'ira and her interaction with Maul. Solo doesn't even need to be in it. My opinion is the same with the Marvel films. Make as many as possible as long as they are good. Solo, while unnecessary, was good and I still believe the weak turn out was mostly due to the release date.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: BlackInk on June 21, 2018, 07:02:29 AM
Not upset the slightest about throwing the spin-off movies in the trash.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: jingle.boy on June 21, 2018, 11:04:53 AM
Hopefully they have realized that multiple SW movies a year, is a recipe for disaster. Return to releasing one movie a year, or every two years. They can build up the hype for each movie better that way. An

But why?  If they're good movies, why can't they make more than one/year or 2 years?  Marvel seems to have figured out how to do it.  The hype around BP and IW was immense, and they were only 2.5 months apart.  Both took in a shit-ton of money.

The franchise's problem isn't source material or quantity.  It's the movie-making process, execution, and resulting quality.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: The Trooper on June 21, 2018, 11:10:03 AM
Hopefully they have realized that multiple SW movies a year, is a recipe for disaster. Return to releasing one movie a year, or every two years. They can build up the hype for each movie better that way. An

But why?  If they're good movies, why can't they make more than one/year or 2 years?  Marvel seems to have figured out how to do it.  The hype around BP and IW was immense, and they were only 2.5 months apart.  Both took in a shit-ton of money.

The franchise's problem isn't source material or quantity.  It's the movie-making process, execution, and resulting quality.

This is so dead on right.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Accelerando on June 21, 2018, 11:22:56 AM
My feelings are conflicted.

Part of me is like "The more Star Wars, the better!"

But there's also a part of me that says Star Wars is incredibly special, that I feel like 2 or 3 Star Wars films a year might take that speciality away.

Marvel Studios can get away with it because there's been a build up towards a certain story arc and you have to introduce all these characters and there's also actor contracts to be considered as well. There's a streamline that the casual movie goer can follow.

I don't think it can be like that for Star Wars. The casual movie goer was already confused with the Timeline jumps between the saga films and R1/Solo...doing 2 or 3 Star Wars movies a year with a different timeline will make it more confusing for people who aren't into these movies like us!

I think if they are taking time to focus on quality, rather than churning out a movie every year or so, then that's gotta be a good thing.

Agreed. Be safer than sorry. And again, they've had so many production problems for all the Star Wars Story movies, they need to take a step back for a moment and gauge the situation.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: The Trooper on June 21, 2018, 11:36:00 AM
The thing that Marvel/Disney now does so well is that they have a visionary in Kevin Feige. The man is brilliant. Sure there have been less than great movies such a Dark world etc. But for  the most part Feige has created an unprecedented volume of films with different directors.

Think about it, Jon Favreau basically started it, Russo Bros have taken it to a new level,  James Gunn has done wonders.

That is what is amazing about Infinity. The Russo Bros. took all of the actors/characters from various movies and seamlessly put them in an iconic film that works on all levels
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: The Trooper on June 21, 2018, 11:41:35 AM
Think about it, Disney has it down, wether you like them or not. They have acquired a monster universe (no pun intended). Which is a bit suprising that they had a brain fart on Solo. Disney as a company in all their ventures, parks, movies, hotels etc. pay attention to details.

Bob Iger who runs Disney knows what he is doing.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Kattelox on June 21, 2018, 11:52:42 AM
About the quoted portion above... I thought there was only one major Star Wars film a year? The Force Awakens was 2015, Rogue One was 2016, Last Jedi was 2017, Solo was 2018. Marvel cranks out 3-4 every year, for several years running.

I have a friend who couldn't be happier about the side films being tossed out even thought he enjoyed Rogue One, but he thinks they're ruining the original stories with episodes 7 and 8. I thought Rogue One was incredibly boring and I don't plan on seeing Solo, and was disappointed with much of The Last Jedi, so I don't understand what they're doing in Star Wars land that they're messing things up so badly (just my opinion). I guess I should do some reading on all that behind the scenes problems plaguing these films, because with such a rich lore from which they could adapt countless stories and worlds, I'm really waiting for them to do something truly new and focus on a completely different aspect of the Star Wars universe.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: BlackInk on June 21, 2018, 02:13:48 PM
Agreed with the point above. Iím not really saying no to all future Star Wars movies, I just donít care about a Death Star plan origin movie, or a Han Solo origin movie, or a Yoda origin movie, or a Obi-Wan spin-off movie, or a Boba Fett spin-off movie, or a íyoung Aragorní TV-show. I donít care. Iíd much rather they pick something new from the vast universe they now have access to. Thatís why Iím still on board with the sequel trilogy, theyíre advancing the universe, not retconning it.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: bosk1 on June 25, 2018, 08:49:42 AM
Collider is reporting that LucasFilm is putting A Star Wars Story spin-offs on hold

http://collider.com/star-wars-spinoffs-on-hold/

The article says that the rumored Obi-Wan movie was in pre-production, and because of this decision, has been ultimately shut-down. Same with James Mangold Boba Fett film.

That does not mean LucasFilm won't be doing Star Wars Stories or will not revisit Obi-Wan/Boba Felt in the future. It just means at this point in time, the focus is on Episode 9 and the Rian Johnson trilogy.

In my opinion, this is a good thing. As the article states, the Star Wars Story films haven't exactly been produced smoothly. Josh Trank being fired and his Boba Fett movie being cancelled. Rogue One's reshoots. Solo's directors firing and extensive reshoots with Ron Howard. I think with a better plan for these films going forward, I think there will be a better reward and merit.

Yeah, I think that is a good thing as well.  I agree with the points about Marvel being able to do it.  But for a lot of reasons, Star Wars isn't Marvel. 

The one thing I will push back on in this post, however, is the R1 reshoots.  That was a very typical occurrence.  It's just that for most films, we don't hear about it.  The way the news of the reshoots was released appears to have really created a false narrative about what was going on. 
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Skeever on June 25, 2018, 09:11:23 AM
I think the main series is still going well, but now does seem to be a good time to pump the breaks on a lot of the "expanded" universe stuff. As others noted, Star Wars is NOT Marvel. I don't think Star Wars benefits from the Marvel-like approach the Solo strongly moved the series into, i.e., movies that all neatly tie-in together with each other and the main films.

And it doesn't need to. Star Wars is a great universe. I've heard it described as a "sandbox" where various types of stories can be told. They can do Star Wars movies that take place 1000 years before or after the OT, for all I'm concerned. The sheer breadth of the universe is what makes it impressive. What is less impressive is the current approach of taking the existing stories and characters we know about and filling in the granular details as much as they possibly can.  Star Was has had great characters but IMO the characters are secondary to the massive scale of the universe which is always the more interesting focus.

Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Cool Chris on June 25, 2018, 05:36:01 PM
What is less impressive is the current approach of taking the existing stories and characters we know about and filling in the granular details as much as they possibly can. Star Was has had great characters but IMO the characters are secondary to the massive scale of the universe which is always the more interesting focus. 

Interesting thought I totally agree with. We know Han won the Falcon from Lando, and that history they share informs their relationship, and fleshes out their dymanic in Ep5. And that's really all we need to know. There is no need, desire, or benefit to go in to how it all went down. The fact that it happened, is addressed, and that the characters act appropriately is what is most important.

This may be a bad example, I haven't seen Solo.

Hell we could apply this line of thinking to Anakin and Eps 1-3. Of course with that there was an opportunity to craft a truly original and emotional story arc on the backdrop of a new era of the SW universe we've never seen before. But alas....
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: gmillerdrake on July 11, 2018, 09:21:05 AM
Finally finished Rebels. All in all I thought it was a cool series. The last two episodes were certainly interesting being how Ezra 'saved' Ahsoka and then the finale where Ezra and Thrawn's fate were left in limbo kind of. Until I read that the showrunner confirmed they both are indeed alive.

What I'm not excited about at all is the next series....Resistance I think they are calling it? Anyway, seems like a cool concept but I cannot get past the way they are animating it....in that 'anime' style. I know it's a cartoon and all but the cool thing about Clone Wars and Rebels was that although it was a cartoon there were still some cool visuals. From what I've seen of the style they're going for with Resistance it looks WAY too cartoony and silly for me to have any interest in watching it at all. I'd prefer them to go the other direction and make it as realistic as possible.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Accelerando on July 19, 2018, 11:24:24 PM
THE CLONE WARS IS BACK!!!!!
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Polarbear on July 20, 2018, 12:43:46 AM
Pretty exciting to get twelve new episodes of Clone Wars!

I was fine with the "ending" we got back in the day, but it's great that they get to properly finish it!
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: kaos2900 on July 20, 2018, 07:01:20 AM
Yes! Very excited to have a proper ending for an amazing series.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: gmillerdrake on July 20, 2018, 01:22:03 PM
Yes! Very excited to have a proper ending for an amazing series.

Yep. Gonna be fun to watch.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Polarbear on July 28, 2018, 07:05:03 AM
Cast for Episode IX got unveiled this morning!

All the usual suspects are back:

Daisy Ridley, Adam Driver, John Boyega, Oscar Isaac, Mark Hamill, Anthony Daniels, Lupita Nyongío, Domhnall Gleeson, Kelly Marie Tran, Joonas Suotamo and Billie Lourd.

New cast members include:

Naomi Ackie (Lady Macbeth), Richard E Grant (Logan, Game of Thrones, Downton Abbey) and Keri Russell (Mission Impossible 3)

Also returning is the one and only Billy Dee as Lando! What is most interesting, is the fact that Carrie Fisher will be back. She will supposedly make a return via some manipulated, deleted footage from The Force Awakens. No recasting or CGI. That will be pretty interesting to see.
It's also great that Luke will return to give some force ghost advice to Rey. Notably absent are Benicio Del Toro, and Andy Serkis. So all the theories about Snoke's resurrection can be put to rest. He is dead.

Pretty interesting cast!
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: jingle.boy on July 29, 2018, 07:04:56 AM
Kinda bummed that Del Toro's character isn't coming back.  Honestly, he was the most interesting new character from TFA, and more interesting (to me) than some of the existing characters.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: TheOutlawXanadu on August 07, 2018, 07:13:02 AM
Cast for Episode IX got unveiled this morning!

All the usual suspects are back:

Daisy Ridley, Adam Driver, John Boyega, Oscar Isaac, Mark Hamill, Anthony Daniels, Lupita Nyongío, Domhnall Gleeson, Kelly Marie Tran, Joonas Suotamo and Billie Lourd.

New cast members include:

Naomi Ackie (Lady Macbeth), Richard E Grant (Logan, Game of Thrones, Downton Abbey) and Keri Russell (Mission Impossible 3)

Also returning is the one and only Billy Dee as Lando! What is most interesting, is the fact that Carrie Fisher will be back. She will supposedly make a return via some manipulated, deleted footage from The Force Awakens. No recasting or CGI. That will be pretty interesting to see.
It's also great that Luke will return to give some force ghost advice to Rey. Notably absent are Benicio Del Toro, and Andy Serkis. So all the theories about Snoke's resurrection can be put to rest. He is dead.

Pretty interesting cast!

I heard about this last week. Interesting stuff, indeed. The possibilities for what they do with Ep. IX are endless. While I usually avoid doing this kind of thing, I hope that Luke has a meaningful role to play. The fact that he is in the main cast list makes me think he will. Either way, I'm sure I will be very excited come December 2019!
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Cool Chris on August 07, 2018, 04:07:52 PM
Also returning is the one and only Billy Dee as Lando...

Carrie Fisher will be back...

Luke will return...

Way to move the franchise forward, fellas. Staing in Ep 9 we have from Eps 4-6 a mid-carder, a character whose actress passed away, and a character who was killed off.

At least Snoke, the most boring, uninteresting villain in film history is gone. Wait... forgot about General Hux. Make that the second most boring, uninteresting villain in film history
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: bosk1 on August 07, 2018, 04:38:30 PM
Wow.  It's like you are a homeless person and Star Wars is a downtown Seattle sidewalk.  You just can't help crapping all over it, can you?
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Cool Chris on August 07, 2018, 05:02:01 PM
Bad analogy. If I was homeless and the SW franchise was a Seattle sidewalk, I would be camping out on one, setting up a tent mansion and inviting all my homeless acquaintances to move here and join me for all the handouts and non-existent law enforcement.

The homeless use the alleys, parks, and green spaces for their excrement.

On topic, I don't have a good way to articulate why I don't care for the Eps 7 and 8 and possibly 9. I was as big of a SW fan as a kid could be growing up in the early 80s. Empire was my first time at a drive in (though I barely remember it). I had a clipping from the paper with the movie times in my scrap book. I was as excited for Ep 1 as I have ever been or may ever be for a movie. It was ultimately disappointing, but that might have been mitigated had I not knew a ton about the movie going in. I enjoyed Eps 2 and 3 at the time, and would still find enjoyment in them if I popped them in the DVD player now. I still get wrapped up in the mythos and am not bothered by the shortcomings in the writing and dialogue.

I didn't feel that mythos with Eps 7 and 8. I enjoyed them in the theater, but just as middle of the road action films. I just didn't care about the story as much I would have liked. I did quite enjoy Rogue One, though I saw it late at night when I was really tired.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Adami on August 07, 2018, 05:09:15 PM
Wow.  It's like you are a homeless person and Star Wars is a downtown Seattle sidewalk.  You just can't help crapping all over it, can you?

Actually, it's more like Cool Chris is Cool Chris, and SW is like homeless people in Seattle.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Destiny Of Chaos on August 10, 2018, 10:49:45 AM
This trilogy is a mess. JJ set things up nicely with TFA.... then TLJ happens..... I couldn't be any less excited for Episode 9.....the magic is gone. They're making movies for the sake of making movies now.

I also heard that they might make 2 movies out of episode 9....... do they not know what an "episode" is?
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: TheOutlawXanadu on August 10, 2018, 11:07:53 AM
This trilogy is a mess. JJ set things up nicely with TFA.... then TLJ happens..... I couldn't be any less excited for Episode 9.....the magic is gone. They're making movies for the sake of making movies now.

I also heard that they might make 2 movies out of episode 9....... do they not know what an "episode" is?

In fairness, while the corporate overlords at Disney and Lucasfilm are probably just making movies for the almighty dollar, the people on the ground who are putting the films together seem to really enjoy it. Everyone from JJ to Rian to Kasdan loves Star Wars. That doesn't mean the films can't stink, but I don't think they stink because of a lack of care. I'm not totally sure how Rian thought The Last Jedi was the best possible film for the series, but his heart was in the right place. Just my two cents.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Cool Chris on August 10, 2018, 11:12:31 AM
This trilogy is a mess. JJ set things up nicely with TFA.... then TLJ happens.....

I've always seen this as a big issue when different directors get assigned to do different movies in a series. For better or worse (let's not get in to it here) Eps 1-3 felt like a series because the same team worked on all three, from the director, writer, and producer to the sound guys on down. Eps 4-6 had different directors and producers and developing technology, but it was still Lucas at the top so the vision didn't change. hen different directors come on to a series they (rightly or wrongly) they give their film their vision, and if it doesn't mesh with the preceding movies, it can make the series feel disjointed.

I also heard that they might make 2 movies out of episode 9

It's the formula now. See Twilight/Harry Potter/Hunger Games.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: kaos2900 on August 10, 2018, 11:16:09 AM
This trilogy is a mess. JJ set things up nicely with TFA.... then TLJ happens..... I couldn't be any less excited for Episode 9.....the magic is gone. They're making movies for the sake of making movies now.

I also heard that they might make 2 movies out of episode 9....... do they not know what an "episode" is?

Care to share where you heard about splitting episode 9 because this is the first I'm hearing of it.

And I couldn't disagree more with the rest of the post. It has never been a better time to be Star Wars fan. You can not like the movies but I don't think anyone can question the level of passion thatRyan Johnson and JJ Abrams have about Star Wars. Even Solo was a good film hampered by an abysmal marketing strategy.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: bosk1 on August 10, 2018, 11:24:10 AM
Care to share where you heard about splitting episode 9 because this is the first I'm hearing of it.

I saw an article about that yesterday.  It said that it was being considered because of the amount of content, but not that a final decision had been made.  The dilemma apparently is that with the story they want to tell, they have more than enough footage for one film.  So they are either going to have to make massive cuts, which could impact the quality of the story, or spread it out into two films, which could dilute the quality of the story. 
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Cool Chris on August 10, 2018, 11:32:21 AM
So they are either going to have to make massive cuts, which could impact the quality of the story, or spread it out into two films, which could dilute the quality of the story. 

Could being the appropriate word. It could also mean there is too much (potentially unnecessary or uninteresting) material and the script could use a good trimming.

My examples are not good analogies because they are based on novels as their source material. But Deathly Hallows isn't any longer or more dense than its three predecessors. Mockingjay is equivalent in size and narrative to Hunger Games/Catching Fire.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: bosk1 on August 10, 2018, 11:52:58 AM
So they are either going to have to make massive cuts, which could impact the quality of the story, or spread it out into two films, which could dilute the quality of the story. 

Could being the appropriate word. It could also mean there is too much (potentially unnecessary or uninteresting) material and the script could use a good trimming.

My examples are not good analogies because they are based on novels as their source material. But Deathly Hallows isn't any longer or more dense than its three predecessors. Mockingjay is equivalent in size and narrative to Hunger Games/Catching Fire.

Oh, of course.  We obviously don't know anything about the existing content and how necessary it is or isn't.  I'm just paraphrasing what the article said is all.

I didn't read the Harry Potter books, but the two films for the finale felt bloated and unnecessary.  Mockingjay, on the other hand, felt well-paced spread over two films.  For splitting a chapter in a film's series into multiple films, I don't have strong feelings one way or the other.  It just depends on whether or not it is executed effectively.  If they give us Ep. IX in one film and it works well, great.  If they give it to us in two films and it works well, great.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: kaos2900 on August 10, 2018, 11:55:55 AM
Bosk you nailed it. I'm all for what makes for the best movie/story. Of course if they split it you'll have a contingent of "fans" shaking their fist at ol' greedy Disney. IF they split it I'd call part 1 Episode 9 and part two Episode 10. Having a 10 film story feels just as good as three separate trilogies. Of course they have already started filming so you'd think they would have made a decision by now.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: TheOutlawXanadu on August 10, 2018, 02:09:32 PM
Bosk you nailed it. I'm all for what makes for the best movie/story. Of course if they split it you'll have a contingent of "fans" shaking their fist at ol' greedy Disney. IF they split it I'd call part 1 Episode 9 and part two Episode 10. Having a 10 film story feels just as good as three separate trilogies. Of course they have already started filming so you'd think they would have made a decision by now.

It's funny how the number ten has a certain ring to it, doesn't it? I agree that ten films feels like a nice, round number. Then again, Russell Westbrook won the MVP because he averaged a nice, round triple-double, which now seems kind of silly in hindsight, so maybe nine is better. :lol
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Orbert on August 10, 2018, 04:00:01 PM
Nine episodes is kinda cool because it's "a trilogy of trilogies".  Ten would also be cool.

Just as long as they don't do it as two films and call them Episode IX, Part 1 and Episode IX, Part 2.  That would be dumb.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: bosk1 on August 10, 2018, 04:03:58 PM
Just as long as they don't do it as two films and call them Episode IX, Part 1 and Episode IX, Part 2.  That would be dumb.

If it is two films, I fully expect them to do it that way.  And I'm not sure what is so "dumb" about that.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Orbert on August 10, 2018, 04:22:25 PM
It's dumb because the films are not based on books or any other existing medium, and thus are not already split into defined episodes.  In episodic storytelling, an episode is just the next installment of the story.  The next episode is Episode IX.  If there's one after that, it's Episode X.

The Harry Potter films and the Hunger Games films were based on books that were adapted to film.  Since they split the final film of each series, and stories already had names, then it made perfect sense to call the parts Part 1 and Part 2.  But the next Star Wars episode is just the next episode.  If it's split into two films, they will be the next two episodes.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: bosk1 on August 10, 2018, 04:45:27 PM
Overthinking it, dude.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Adami on August 10, 2018, 05:19:52 PM
I think there's also a psychological element to it. Since the early 80's, it's been described as 9 movies. At the time, people thought all we'd get is 3 of those nine. Then in the early 2000's, it was a 2nd trilogy. Still sticking to the idea of a final 9. Then, in 2018......with almost 40 years of 9 being in the social zeitgeist, to have it be 10, is....psychologically....unsettling. It's a matter of priming and changing that information so late in the game. If it hadn't been considered 3 sets of 3, thus 9, for so many decades, it wouldn't matter.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: countoftuscany42 on August 10, 2018, 09:02:18 PM
Overthinking it, dude.
But thatís the point though? The ďEpisodeĒ only really exists to help differentiate the films especially in context to the timeline of the story. Each film is an episode, it just becomes redundant if you add in another part to an episode. You might as well just list them all as Star Wars: The Phantom Menace, etc up to Star Wars: (Episode IX title) parts 1 and 2 without using Episode in the title. If an Episode can be two films, using Episode to differentiate them makes no sense when there are already more specific titles the movies are known by
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Phoenix87x on August 10, 2018, 09:13:17 PM
This trilogy is a mess. JJ set things up nicely with TFA.... then TLJ happens..... I couldn't be any less excited for Episode 9.....the magic is gone. They're making movies for the sake of making movies now.

I also heard that they might make 2 movies out of episode 9....... do they not know what an "episode" is?

I completely agree. I really enjoyed 7 and thought it was excellent, but think 8 is hot steaming dogshit, So I could care less about 9.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: gmillerdrake on August 11, 2018, 09:12:06 PM
Iíve thoroughly enjoyed both 7 and 8. I thought JJ did a great job with 7 considering the pressure behind that release.....and with every watch of TLJ it gets better and better in my eyes. Outside of being a good SW movie I think itís just a really good movie in general.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Samsara on August 13, 2018, 03:44:56 PM
I disliked TLJ when I saw it the first time. Put a lot of thought in, liked it a whole lot better the second time, and again the third time. That said, I still don't "like" how certain things happened. I can nitpick three things in particular - how they handled Luke (there was a better, and more fitting way to do it, IMO), Rose (not needed), and "Super Leia." But again, I still enjoy it.

Frankly, for my money, the best Star Wars movie ever made (after Empire) is Rogue One. I am an absolute Rogue One fanboy. Brilliant war movie set within the Star Wars universe.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Phoenix87x on August 13, 2018, 04:53:23 PM
Rogue one I enjoyed a lot as well. I though Mads did a fantastic job, and Krenick was a solid villain. Absolutely LOVED the final space battle. Just a cool, different kind of SW movie. Despite not having any Jedis or anything, I felt like it really delivered.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Logain Ablar on August 14, 2018, 02:19:45 AM
For me, Rogue One has been the best of the new batch. Maybe that's because it's the one that felt most like the OT. One criticism I'd have is that there are just too many characters to keep up with and care about, but apart from that it's a really good fun adventure.

Solo was enjoyable, but forgettable. (The more I think about that cameo at the end, it felt wrong and out of place. Just an excuse to leave a trailing thread to stitch in to some future movie.)

I enjoyed TFA, as I saw it as a kind of resetting of what SW should be, so I was reasonably forgiving of the some of the copy and paste criticisms that have been directed at it. I was always going into TLJ with higher expectations, but unfortunately it was a big disappointment for me.

I'm sorry to say that TLJ has dampened my enthusiasm for 9. I'm sure I'll bring the kids to see it when it comes out, but the eagerness has gone, and I certainly won't be going to the midnight show like we did for TLJ.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Polarbear on August 14, 2018, 06:13:42 AM
I liked both Rogue One and TLJ when I first saw them.

I like TLJ more every time I watch it, where as I dislike R1 after every subsequent rewatch to the point where I won't even bother anymore.

TLJ is very well acted, has likable characters and even though the structure of the movie is a bit messy I enjoy the adventure they are on. Cinematography is also great, and I'm behind the changes that it brings to the Skywalker saga, however controversial.

R1 has a great score, and beautiful cinematography but I have a lot of problems with it. Acting is wooden, half the characters look like they are falling asleep in the middle of the scene. They could have chosen to focus on a smaller group of characters, and properly develop them instead of shoving in too many main characters, to the point where some of them have only a few lines of dialogue.

Vader's cameo was unnecessary, although it was great to hear James Earl Jones do the voice one last time. What I'm trying to say is that it's a movie that doesn't need to exist. You are not missing anything if you choose to skip it. Pretty much like Solo, which is a slightly better film.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: lordxizor on August 14, 2018, 06:17:34 AM
I really don't get how TLJ can piss off fans so much that they'e almost no longer interested in Star Wars, when the prequels, which range from god-awful at the worst to passable at the best didn't drive them away. I get most of the criticisms of TLJ, and I think many of them could be very valid depending on where they go with Ep 9. But overall I liked the movie a lot.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Grappler on August 14, 2018, 07:13:53 AM
I really don't get how TLJ can piss off fans so much that they'e almost no longer interested in Star Wars, when the prequels, which range from god-awful at the worst to passable at the best didn't drive them away. I get most of the criticisms of TLJ, and I think many of them could be very valid depending on where they go with Ep 9. But overall I liked the movie a lot.

That's exactly how I feel.  It's a movie - who cares if they didn't give Luke super-Jedi powers and let him kick ass on screen like we all thought he would.  I loved that it flipped the entire trilogy on its head.  "You thought TFA was a re-hash of A New Hope?  Well check this out, let's do something radical and completely original......oh, you're still going to complain?"

So yeah, there were silly things like Leia flying around in space, but in all, it was a really neat story and I loved that Luke was so human with tremendous internal conflicts and finally saying "screw it all."  I wonder if the amount of butthurt would be less if Mark Hamill had kept his mouth shut.   :lol
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Destiny Of Chaos on August 14, 2018, 07:48:24 AM
The prequels were Star Wars. The tragedy of Anakin was a sight to behold.

The Last Jedi is a complete and total abomination. What a colossal missed opportunity.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: jammindude on August 14, 2018, 01:41:09 PM
The prequels were Star Wars. The tragedy of Anakin was a sight to behold.

The Last Jedi is a complete and total abomination. What a colossal missed opportunity.

More the sight of Anakin was a tragedy to behold.

I defended the prequels for a long time, but they are just flat out poorly made in every way. TLJ wasnít poorly written, acted, or executed....it just pissed people off.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Destiny Of Chaos on August 14, 2018, 02:47:10 PM
It wasn't poorly written? A quick google search will show all the poor decisions with the writing
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: pg1067 on August 14, 2018, 04:41:37 PM
I really don't get how TLJ can piss off fans so much that they'e almost no longer interested in Star Wars, when the prequels, which range from god-awful at the worst to passable at the best didn't drive them away. I get most of the criticisms of TLJ, and I think many of them could be very valid depending on where they go with Ep 9. But overall I liked the movie a lot.

That's exactly how I feel.  It's a movie - who cares if they didn't give Luke super-Jedi powers and let him kick ass on screen like we all thought he would.  I loved that it flipped the entire trilogy on its head.  "You thought TFA was a re-hash of A New Hope?  Well check this out, let's do something radical and completely original......oh, you're still going to complain?"

So yeah, there were silly things like Leia flying around in space, but in all, it was a really neat story and I loved that Luke was so human with tremendous internal conflicts and finally saying "screw it all."  I wonder if the amount of butthurt would be less if Mark Hamill had kept his mouth shut.   :lol

Agree.  TLJ is no worse than the 3rd best of the ten Star Wars movies.  Maybe folks just want more pod racing and bitching about sand.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Cool Chris on August 14, 2018, 04:52:30 PM
Eps 1-3 is a good story told poorly. Eps 7 and 8 is a poor story told well.

Chew on that one for a bit :)
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: bosk1 on August 14, 2018, 05:35:17 PM
Eps 1-3 is a good story told poorly.

Yeah, for the most part, I agree.

Eps 7 and 8 is a poor story told well.

Eh, not really.  Seems like a pretty good story told pretty well, so far.  But IMO, the jury's still out until we see how it all ends up.  Too early to tell.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Orbert on August 14, 2018, 06:23:26 PM
That's basically the draw with Episode IX for me, now.  I'm curious to see how well things come together and Episodes VII and VIII went in such completely different directions.

I'll see it anyway, since I've seen them all and have to see how the story ends (or continues, or whatever), but while my excitement about IX is somewhat diminished by VIII, my curiosity about how JJ's gonna pull it off or not mostly makes up for it.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Phoenix87x on August 14, 2018, 07:05:18 PM
If JJ is listening, all I want is for Rey to wake up and walk to the shower and Patrick duffy to be standing there



(https://guidelive.imgix.net/1484068245-bobby.gif?fit=crop&crop=faces,top,right&q=50&w=400&h=300)

And its just starts right where Episode 7 left off, and let the past that is 8 die.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Orbert on August 14, 2018, 07:39:42 PM
I still remember that scene when it first aired.  Everybody was going "Wait... What?!"  And I just thought "Ha ha, the show was dying without him, so they brought him back, shamelessly.  The whole previous season never happened.  Astounding."  And as the episode played out, it became more and more clear that that was it.  It was just a dream, all in Whatsername's head.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Cool Chris on August 14, 2018, 07:50:25 PM
What the hell reference is that?

-Everyone on this forum under 60.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Orbert on August 14, 2018, 08:24:30 PM
In 1978, prime-time television got its first "nighttime soap opera".  The show was Dallas (https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0077000/?ref_=nv_sr_5), the story of the Ewing family, oil barons in the great state of... you guessed it... Texas.

Prior to Dallas, daytime television was dominated by talk shows, game shows, and "soap operas".  Soap operas were heavily serialized stories with lots of drama and sexual innuendo (but not too much -- this was still the 70's).  But evening belonged to half-hour sitcoms, one-hour police dramas, both strictly episodic, and movies of the week.  To have an evening show that was actually serialized was a breakthrough.  To have it be a drama with sexual innuendo was downright scandalous.  But the time was right, and Dallas was huge.  Since my parents and my girlfriend at the time were both fans, I ended up watching it one way or another.

Patrick Duffy played Bobby, the second-oldest Ewing son, and was tired of being second fiddle to Larry Hagman, the eldest son and basically the star of the show.  So he wanted out of the show, and they killed off his character.

The ratings started to tank.  Hagman's character, J.R., was awesomely evil and brutal and people loved to hate him, but Duffy was the one the ladies loved (see gif above).

So the first episode of the following season, his widow wakes up and hears someone in the shower.  What the...?  She goes into the bathroom, and there's Bobby in the shower.  He says something like "Oh, sorry I woke you up."  Widow/wife is in shock, as is the rest of television-watching America.  Bobby is alive.  The entire previous season was just a dream.  She dreamt the entire season.  It never happened.  And the show went on from there.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Phoenix87x on August 15, 2018, 04:12:14 AM
What the hell reference is that?

-Everyone on this forum under 60.

Dallas

Guy dies. Show goes off the rails, but then it ends with it all being a dream and everything resets. At least that's how I think it works. I wasn't alive in 86.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: jingle.boy on August 15, 2018, 07:53:58 AM
Pretty sure Chris is well aware of this... he's in that age bracket.  I'm mid 40s, and I knew exactly what that was.  I think he was making a joke that most of this forum would be all "da fuq?"
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Phoenix87x on August 15, 2018, 07:57:27 AM
Oh, I know.  I just can't get enough Patrick Duffy. Couldn't resist a chance to bring him up  :heart


(http://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0439/1253/products/patrick_duffy_lg_print_grande.jpg?v=1412871871)


Eat your heart out shirtless Kylo  :-*
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: ariich on August 16, 2018, 02:17:34 AM
It wasn't poorly written? A quick google search will show all the poor decisions with the writing
Those kinds of article are hilarious to be honest. Always written by someone who simply didn't like something, who then takes a really pedantic and forensically critical approach which could equally be applied to most similar films.

TLJ was genuinely excellent, probably my second favourite SW film behind Empire.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: lordxizor on August 16, 2018, 06:22:53 AM
I don't get the push to try and prove that it was objectively a bad move. You just didn't like it dude. That's OK. It's fine to not like a movie. I'm sorry if you didn't like it so much that it sours you on future Star Wars movies, but that's your problem, not Star Wars' problem. Star Wars, Marvel, DC, Harry Potter, etc will all make movies that individuals like and don't like. Only with Star Wars do fans have reactions like this.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: gmillerdrake on August 16, 2018, 06:29:59 AM
TLJ was genuinely excellent, probably my second favourite SW film behind Empire.

Same here, followed by TFA.

Iíve said it before in here but, once I got over the fact Johnson didnít take Lukeís character the way ĎIí thought or wanted him too...or the way that had been speculated he Ďshouldí......then went back and watched the film a second time to watch it without any expectations.....I really started to dig the movie. Subsequent viewings just make it better and better for me.



I still donít like force flying Leia at all.....but as far as Luke and his story and how he was handled, I think it was perfect.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Destiny Of Chaos on August 16, 2018, 07:55:16 AM
It wasn't poorly written? A quick google search will show all the poor decisions with the writing
Those kinds of article are hilarious to be honest. Always written by someone who simply didn't like something, who then takes a really pedantic and forensically critical approach which could equally be applied to most similar films.

TLJ was genuinely excellent, probably my second favourite SW film behind Empire.

A lot of them are hilarious and way too nit-picky. I'll grant you that. But others address serious issues with the film. And I agree with many of the points.


I don't get the push to try and prove that it was objectively a bad move. You just didn't like it dude. That's OK. It's fine to not like a movie. I'm sorry if you didn't like it so much that it sours you on future Star Wars movies, but that's your problem, not Star Wars' problem. Star Wars, Marvel, DC, Harry Potter, etc will all make movies that individuals like and don't like. Only with Star Wars do fans have reactions like this.

There are a lot of people that feel the same way that I do. Our opinions are just as valid as those who enjoyed the film. It's not like I'm trying to talk down a movie that is universally loved, such as Episode V.

I can't speak for Harry Potter, but there are plenty of people who react to Marvel films poorly, particularly when things deviate from the source material. But even then, Marvel has done nothing that can come close to being compared with Episode VIII.

Also want to note.... I'm not one of these clowns that are upset about the diversity in casting.. I'm actually all for that, and Rose was one of my favorite characters from VIII, and the trolling of the actual actors is something that I don't condone whatsoever.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: bosk1 on August 16, 2018, 08:05:57 AM
It wasn't poorly written? A quick google search will show all the poor decisions with the writing
Those kinds of article are hilarious to be honest. Always written by someone who simply didn't like something, who then takes a really pedantic and forensically critical approach which could equally be applied to most similar films.

TLJ was genuinely excellent, probably my second favourite SW film behind Empire.

A lot of them are hilarious and way too nit-picky. I'll grant you that. But others address serious issues with the film. And I agree with many of the points.

...

There are a lot of people that feel the same way that I do.

And that still amounts to little more than:

I don't get the push to try and prove that it was objectively a bad move. You just didn't like it dude. That's OK. It's fine to not like a movie. I'm sorry if you didn't like it so much that it sours you on future Star Wars movies, but that's your problem, not Star Wars' problem.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: lordxizor on August 16, 2018, 11:23:38 AM
I can't speak for Harry Potter, but there are plenty of people who react to Marvel films poorly, particularly when things deviate from the source material. But even then, Marvel has done nothing that can come close to being compared with Episode VIII.
I can completely understand being upset that a movie isn't true to the source material, whether its a novel or a comic or whatever. But Star Wars has no source material to be true to, so it's really not an apples to apples comparison to people who are angry at those other movies. Your opinion is certainly a valid one and I thought TLJ was far from perfect, though I enjoyed it. I just don't get the completely visceral responses people have had to TLJ. I've never seen that kind of a response to a movie before except when it deviated greatly from source material, and even then it's never seemed this bad.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Destiny Of Chaos on August 16, 2018, 11:47:01 AM
I can't speak for Harry Potter, but there are plenty of people who react to Marvel films poorly, particularly when things deviate from the source material. But even then, Marvel has done nothing that can come close to being compared with Episode VIII.
I can completely understand being upset that a movie isn't true to the source material, whether its a novel or a comic or whatever. But Star Wars has no source material to be true to, so it's really not an apples to apples comparison to people who are angry at those other movies. Your opinion is certainly a valid one and I thought TLJ was far from perfect, though I enjoyed it. I just don't get the completely visceral responses people have had to TLJ. I've never seen that kind of a response to a movie before except when it deviated greatly from source material, and even then it's never seemed this bad.

Well I didn't mean for it to be an apples to apples comparison.

I wanted to love TLJ. I wanted to at least like it. And it was visually stunning. But The bombs dropping in space, Leia's Mary Poppins moment, The complete mishandling of Snoke, The whole Casino planet thing and Del Toro's character, Holdo,  the 1st Order being content to slowly follow the rebels and wait till they.....run out of fuel? A "Your Mamma" Joke in a Star Wars film? Lack of lightsabre battles......

The Snoke thing is probably the worst. but I'm sure some other fn cashgrab trilogy will come along to explain him.

Not trying to convince anyone of anything. Movie's been out for like 9 months. Everyone's where they're at with it and it is what it is.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: bosk1 on August 16, 2018, 11:54:07 AM
Not trying to convince anyone of anything.

Clearly.

This trilogy is a mess. JJ set things up nicely with TFA.... then TLJ happens..... I couldn't be any less excited for Episode 9.....the magic is gone. They're making movies for the sake of making movies now.

:lol
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: pg1067 on August 16, 2018, 12:16:18 PM
I wanted to love TLJ. I wanted to at least like it. And it was visually stunning. But The bombs dropping in space, Leia's Mary Poppins moment, The complete mishandling of Snoke, The whole Casino planet thing and Del Toro's character, Holdo,  the 1st Order being content to slowly follow the rebels and wait till they.....run out of fuel? A "Your Mamma" Joke in a Star Wars film? Lack of lightsabre battles......

The Snoke thing is probably the worst. but I'm sure some other fn cashgrab trilogy will come along to explain him.

I assume the "bombs dropping in space" is a complaint about "space" being a "zero gravity" environment (which it isn't).  To the extent anyone needs their sci-fi/fantasy fiction to conform to "real world" rules of physics in order to be enjoyable, there are plausible explanations for the "bombs dropping in space."  Do people really need their fiction to explain the science?

The rest of this amounts to nothing more than "I don't like it," although I'm at a loss to understand how Snoke was "complete[ly] mishandl[ed]."  There's nothing objectively "bad" about any of it, and my biggest problem is with folks who, more than simply not liking it, feel the need to convince folks that the things they don't like are objective flaws.

As I wrote previously, IMO, TLJ is no worse than the third best of the ten Star Wars movies (or eleven if you count Clone Wars).  I would probably rank them as follows:

Empire
Star Wars
TLJ
Rogue One
RotJ
TFA
RotS
Solo
TPM
AooC

On the right day, I might put TLJ ahead of Star Wars.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Grappler on August 16, 2018, 12:20:59 PM
The rest of this amounts to nothing more than "I don't like it," although I'm at a loss to understand how Snoke was "complete[ly] mishandl[ed]."  There's nothing objectively "bad" about any of it, and my biggest problem is with folks who, more than simply not liking it, feel the need to convince folks that the things they don't like are objective flaws.

I think the thing about Snoke is that they didn't reveal him to be some widely known, Expanded Universe sith lord.  Fanboys wanted to shoehorn Darth Plaegus into the story.  So by making him just this regular character (which Darth Vader and Palpatine were just regular characters in the OT until subsequent films gave them a backstory), they took away some kid's wet dream and subsequently ruined the story for them.

I like that - Vader was just the Lord of the Sith in A New Hope.  He went through two entire films and was accepted of just being a badass villain until it was revealed that he was Anakin Skywalker.  Why does everyone need Snoke to be someone else?
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: bosk1 on August 16, 2018, 12:22:36 PM
The rest of this amounts to nothing more than "I don't like it," although I'm at a loss to understand how Snoke was "complete[ly] mishandl[ed]."  There's nothing objectively "bad" about any of it, and my biggest problem is with folks who, more than simply not liking it, feel the need to convince folks that the things they don't like are objective flaws.

Exactly. 

I'm still not sure how to rank it.  The casino planet storyline and how the casino "planet" was portrayed REALLY bother me.  But the rest of the movie (and even parts of that part) were close to 10/10 and right up there with or above my all-time favorites of the franchise.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Cool Chris on August 16, 2018, 12:34:30 PM
I like that - Vader was just the Lord of the Sith in A New Hope.  He went through two entire films and was accepted of just being a badass villain until it was revealed that he was Anakin Skywalker.  Why does everyone need Snoke to be someone else?

I personally didn't need Snoke to be someone else. I did however need him to be somewhat interesting or compelling. He certainly wasn't a "badass villain" like Darth Vader. That dude blew a hole in a ship, marched through after his troops blasted anyone standing in their way, and choked to death someone who didn't give him the answer he wanted, all within the first 5 minutes of the film. I have only seen TFA/and TLJ once each, and I cannot tell you one thing Snoke did other than sit in a chair. 
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: ariich on August 16, 2018, 12:55:59 PM
I assume the "bombs dropping in space" is a complaint about "space" being a "zero gravity" environment (which it isn't).  To the extent anyone needs their sci-fi/fantasy fiction to conform to "real world" rules of physics in order to be enjoyable, there are plausible explanations for the "bombs dropping in space."  Do people really need their fiction to explain the science?
I hadn't seen that one before, but it's probably the silliest of the lot. Star Wars and indeed most sci-fi is completely not based in science fact.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: jingle.boy on August 17, 2018, 06:08:47 AM
I hadn't seen that one before, but it's probably the silliest of the lot. Star Wars and indeed most sci-fi is completely not based in science fact.

Fair, but suspension of disbelief only goes so far sometimes.  In films of the style that are grounded in similar real life 'rules (humans, air, gravity) there also has to be some continuation of reality.  Spaceships - fiction; hyperspace - fiction; the Force - fiction; light-sabres - fiction; interacting with aliens - fiction.  I'm ok with all of that.  Gravity in space?  Not sure I'm ok with that.  Why did Leia need to force pull herself to the ship if there's gravity?  Surviving in space for as long as she did - why are we to assume space operates differently in this galaxy?

If this was the only problem (or at least one of a few), I could overlook it.  But there were so many small and medium sized wtf/lolpalm moments, it was like death by a thousand paper-cuts for me.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: lordxizor on August 17, 2018, 06:29:04 AM
Ships clearly have some sort of artificial gravity since the people in them don't float. Maybe it's strong enough to allow bombs to drop. Or maybe the bombs were propelled downwards out of the ship and not just let to free fall. Two very obvious solutions to the problem. I think people are overthinking that particular "issue".

Leia would have been propelled outward away from the artificial gravity of the ship. She would have needed to reverse that momentum, so using the Force makes sense there. And people don't die instantly in space, so the time it took may be reasonable, especially someone with at least a small amount of Force abilities. I do think it was a dumb scene though, but not because it somehow didn't fit into the laws of the Star Wars universe.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Grappler on August 17, 2018, 06:35:01 AM
Leia would have been propelled outward away from the artificial gravity of the ship. She would have needed to reverse that momentum, so using the Force makes sense there. And people don't die instantly in space, so the time it took may be reasonable, especially someone with at least a small amount of Force abilities. I do think it was a dumb scene though, but not because it somehow didn't fit into the laws of the Star Wars universe.

I just started watching the audio commentary from Rian Johnson, and he said that the flying Leia scene is a result of Kathleen Kennedy and a number of other people reminding him that Leia is a Skywalker.  Luke told her in ROTJ that someday she may learn to use the force, but we have yet to ever see her do anything.  So this is Leia instinctually reaching out to the force in a dire moment of need.  I don't think it had anything to do with reversing any law of physics as much as it did that she is a descendant of a family that is strong in the force and despite having zero training, it was there for her when she needed it the most.

Sure, it looks awfully silly on screen, but given that Carrie Fisher is now gone, it's nice that she got to have a moment in the film where Leia finally can use the force after being told about her lineage so long ago.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: pg1067 on August 17, 2018, 11:13:39 AM
Gravity in space?  Not sure I'm ok with that.  Why did Leia need to force pull herself to the ship if there's gravity?  Surviving in space for as long as she did - why are we to assume space operates differently in this galaxy?

Gravity exists everywhere (including "in space").  The extent of the gravitational pull between two bodies is proportional to the product of their masses and inversely proportional to their distance from each other.  There is a gravitational pull between a human standing on Earth and the planet.  However, there is also a gravitational pull between that same human and the moon and between that human and the sun.  Obviously, the pull between the human and the sun or between the human and the moon is relatively negligible to that between the human and the Earth.  Therefore, it's not noticeable.  But it's still there.  If you're "floating" "in space," the gravitational pull between you and the various celestial bodies is more balanced.  One of the more obvious results of that is that, if an object is propelled in a particular direction, it will continue to move in that direction in that direction unless it is acted on by some other force.

If I recall correctly, the battle involving the bombs was fought relatively close to a planet.  Therefore, that planet would have exerted a gravitational pull on the bombs (albeit perhaps not a strong one).  Regardless, it is certainly plausible that the bombs were ejected in a manner such that they would "fall" in the same way that bombs fall when dropped from a plane flying at a few thousand feet over the surface of a planet.  It is also plausible that each bomb has a small propulsion system that caused it to fall in that manner.  It's also plausible that gravity "in space" works differently in the Star Wars universe (the scene in ESB when Han landed the Falcon on a tiny asteroid demonstrates that).

The point is that there are plausible explanations for many of these perceived scientific inconsistencies that no good storyteller would waste time explaining.

As far as Leia Poppins, I agree that this was one of the hokier parts of the movie, but every Star Wars film has had some degree of hokiness, and Leia's Force sensitivity has been well-established for 35+ years.  It had nothing to do with gravity; it had to do with the Force.  Did the film makers take time to tell us what (if anything) Leia had done in the X years between RotJ and TFA to learn about and control her force-based powers?  No; nor should they have done so.  One doesn't need to suspend disbelief to assume that she did that or that what happened was merely instinctual.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: lordxizor on August 17, 2018, 11:34:28 AM
To get off the topic of TLJ and it's issues, let's have some speculation for Ep. 9.

What does everyone think: Will Kylo Ren be redeemed and come back to the good side, or will he be defeated by Rey?
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: gmillerdrake on August 17, 2018, 11:49:20 AM
What does everyone think: Will Kylo Ren be redeemed and come back to the good side, or will he be defeated by Rey?

 I guess it depends on what they've done with the character in the 'time jump' that is hinted at happening. Has he surpassed Vadar's ruthlessness? Is he just outright 'evil' to the point of you don't even want him to 'come back' to the light? IMO he kind of sealed his fate with Rey at the end of TLJ....I don't think she's going to have any interest in wanting to 'save' him....only to kill him.

Plus I'd think that despite them saying that Leia is going to be in the film I'd think that it'll be limited to a few scenes of which she dies....probably by a raid or strike led by Ren. That'll tick Rey off even more.....so, I think she'll be more interested in killing him than trying to get him to come back to the light again.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: ariich on August 18, 2018, 06:37:37 AM
Gravity in space?  Not sure I'm ok with that.
Then why are you ok with the ludicrously unrealistic artificial gravity in the spaceships?
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: jingle.boy on August 19, 2018, 05:04:58 AM
Gravity in space?  Not sure I'm ok with that.
Then why are you ok with the ludicrously unrealistic artificial gravity in the spaceships?

Perhaps because we don't have a realistic point of comparison in real life.  I dunno... I've always wondered how artificial gravity would work, but not too much.  Because we know there is no gravity in space, I have a realistic point of comparison as to why the bombs shouldn't just "drop" on their own.  Maybe I'm nitpicking, but as I said, if it was just a few issues, I'd probably get over it pretty quick.  But (for me), the movie had a lot of issues I couldn't get over.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: ronnibran on August 19, 2018, 07:41:22 AM
The one part from the whole series that bugs me, but not enough to not enjoy the movie, is when they get off the Milennium Falcon in Empire, looking for Minochs.  I always assume the pressure and/or temperature would be an issue.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: ariich on August 19, 2018, 12:25:38 PM
The one part from the whole series that bugs me, but not enough to not enjoy the movie, is when they get off the Milennium Falcon in Empire, looking for Minochs.  I always assume the pressure and/or temperature would be an issue.
It would. There'd be no meaningful atmosphere on an asteroid, and certainly not enough gravity for them to just walk around like that.

Not that it matters at all, but if people are going to nitpick over the falling bombs (which could actually easily be explained by the ship pushing them downwards, meaning no need for gravity) then they should certainly nitpick over this where there is no plausible scientific explanation.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: pg1067 on August 20, 2018, 12:40:54 PM
The one part from the whole series that bugs me, but not enough to not enjoy the movie, is when they get off the Milennium Falcon in Empire, looking for Minochs.  I always assume the pressure and/or temperature would be an issue.
It would. There'd be no meaningful atmosphere on an asteroid, and certainly not enough gravity for them to just walk around like that.

Not that it matters at all, but if people are going to nitpick over the falling bombs (which could actually easily be explained by the ship pushing them downwards, meaning no need for gravity) then they should certainly nitpick over this where there is no plausible scientific explanation.

Yup.

Also, "there is no gravity in space" is a demonstrably incorrect statement.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Adami on August 20, 2018, 12:47:18 PM
I would say that, if there are times when people aren't nitpicking, and times when they are, I would look at maybe why.

For instance, I can only speak for myself as a casual SW fan. I didn't care in the slightest bit about the gravity in the worm monster thing because I was so engaged with the plot, the characters, etc, that it just didn't matter. However, I did actually notice and think about the gravity of the bomb dropping moment in TLJ as well as how Rose' sister was able to so freely breathe in such an environment. At the time, I wasn't even a little engaged with the plot, the characters, etc. So the flaws stuck out to me more.

I think that's a big issue. I don't think it's fair to assume or imply some ulterior motives for people who notice and complain at times but not others. Sometimes the movies are good enough that we don't care, and sometimes they're not.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Grappler on August 20, 2018, 12:50:50 PM
So we're now debating if one's enjoyment of a story involving characters (and aliens, talking humanoid animals, and robots), that can use some magical power called 'The Force,' wield laser swords and ray-guns and participate in large space battles and interstellar travel at the speed of light, are completely and utterly hung up on whether or not the film appropriately shows how gravity might work in space?

You can suspend your belief for a bunch of crazy made up shit, but can't suspend your belief of something like bombs dropping in space? 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WUL7q8eyig8
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: ariich on August 20, 2018, 01:25:50 PM
I would say that, if there are times when people aren't nitpicking, and times when they are, I would look at maybe why.

For instance, I can only speak for myself as a casual SW fan. I didn't care in the slightest bit about the gravity in the worm monster thing because I was so engaged with the plot, the characters, etc, that it just didn't matter. However, I did actually notice and think about the gravity of the bomb dropping moment in TLJ as well as how Rose' sister was able to so freely breathe in such an environment. At the time, I wasn't even a little engaged with the plot, the characters, etc. So the flaws stuck out to me more.

I think that's a big issue. I don't think it's fair to assume or imply some ulterior motives for people who notice and complain at times but not others. Sometimes the movies are good enough that we don't care, and sometimes they're not.
But this is exactly my point.

I get that some people didn't enjoy the film as much. They can just say that. There's nothing wrong with just saying "I didn't like" it and explaining what you felt was lacking, whether that's in story terms or character or whatever.

What I find absurd is the way people also nitpick in this way to try and prove that a film is objectively inferior.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Adami on August 20, 2018, 01:59:51 PM
Oh I get you, but then you'd have all the fans discussing all the things they loved, in detail, while everyone else would be relegated to "I didn't personally care for it". Seems a bit boring. There's reasons they didn't care for it.

And I don't know why they'd have to point out first that they didn't care for it. That's obvious. It's like demanding you put "In my opinion" after every statement. Obviously it's your opinion, and obviously they didn't care for it.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: lordxizor on August 20, 2018, 02:10:52 PM
I think there's a big difference between saying "I didn't care for the portrayal of Luke Skywalker and it ruined the movie for me" and "it was so unrealistic that the bombs would drop in space and it ruined the movie for me". The first is a major part of the film and to me an extremely valid reason to not care for it, the second is a tiny passing moment and really shouldn't be listed high up on a list of why someone didn't like a movie. There really isn't an equivalent for the opposite opinion of liking the movie. People don't usually pick out inconsequential moments as reasons they love a movie. I can see a combination of several inconsequential moments bringing a movie down a notch or two, but not listed as a primary reason many don't like a film like it seems to be with the stupid bombs dropping.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: ariich on August 20, 2018, 02:20:05 PM
Oh I get you, but then you'd have all the fans discussing all the things they loved, in detail, while everyone else would be relegated to "I didn't personally care for it". Seems a bit boring. There's reasons they didn't care for it.

And I don't know why they'd have to point out first that they didn't care for it. That's obvious. It's like demanding you put "In my opinion" after every statement. Obviously it's your opinion, and obviously they didn't care for it.
I'm not sure you properly read my post (which is unusual for you, to be honest).

Of course people can talk about what they didn't like. Normally it will be down to pacing, or character, or plot, or all sorts of  things like that. People can talk about why they didn't enjoy those things. There are lots of ways that people can discuss their dislike of something (or why they like something less than another thing) that don't involve double standards.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Adami on August 20, 2018, 03:14:41 PM
Oh I get you, but then you'd have all the fans discussing all the things they loved, in detail, while everyone else would be relegated to "I didn't personally care for it". Seems a bit boring. There's reasons they didn't care for it.

And I don't know why they'd have to point out first that they didn't care for it. That's obvious. It's like demanding you put "In my opinion" after every statement. Obviously it's your opinion, and obviously they didn't care for it.
I'm not sure you properly read my post (which is unusual for you, to be honest).

Of course people can talk about what they didn't like. Normally it will be down to pacing, or character, or plot, or all sorts of  things like that. People can talk about why they didn't enjoy those things. There are lots of ways that people can discuss their dislike of something (or why they like something less than another thing) that don't involve double standards.

Nope! Totally misread your post. hah. I guess it's what happens when I try to read this between therapy sessions. My bad dawg!

But I think my overall point about double standards stands. For instance, I can complain all day long how horrible the CGI was in Wonder Woman, but not complain much about it in Infinity War because the movie didn't give me a reason to care. When the end of Wonder Woman came, I was so disengaged with everything that I focused on that nonsense and then that REALLY took me out of the movie. I would be lying if I didn't include the CGI at the end as a reason I didn't like it. That doesn't mean that every instance of sub-par CGi bothers me to the same degree or that it should. Or else I'm not allowed to complain about the poor writing of Jar Jar Binks while not batting an eye at (insert whomever from the original trilogy).
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Cool Chris on August 20, 2018, 08:34:50 PM
For instance, I can only speak for myself as a casual SW fan. I didn't care in the slightest bit about the gravity in the worm monster thing because I was so engaged with the plot, the characters, etc, that it just didn't matter.

Would have typed this if I could have articulated it this concisely.

Incidentally, I have been very critical of TLJ, but it never occurred to me that it could have anything to do with Space Bombs or other weird Sci-Fi movie junk. I ju
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Adami on August 20, 2018, 08:39:40 PM
For instance, I can only speak for myself as a casual SW fan. I didn't care in the slightest bit about the gravity in the worm monster thing because I was so engaged with the plot, the characters, etc, that it just didn't matter.

Would have typed this if I could have articulated it this concisely.

Incidentally, I have been very critical of TLJ, but it never occurred to me that it could have anything to do with Space Bombs or other weird Sci-Fi movie junk. I ju

Oh yea, I probably should have mentioned that even though I did notice the flaw in the scene, it does not even come close to the list of complaints I have against it. Those complaints really are based around writing and so forth.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Cool Chris on August 20, 2018, 09:34:18 PM
What the hell was I writing?! Did I pass out while typing?!

"I ju....." I just swallowed some poison... I just saw Eliza Dushku walk in to the room...
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Bolsters on August 20, 2018, 09:44:41 PM
Perhaps because we don't have a realistic point of comparison in real life.  I dunno... I've always wondered how artificial gravity would work, but not too much.  Because we know there is no gravity in space, I have a realistic point of comparison as to why the bombs shouldn't just "drop" on their own.
I had a thought about this.

If we accept that the bomber ship contains some form of artificial gravity, which it demonstrably does when you watch that scene, then the bombs would "drop" while inside the ship and inside the artificial gravity's field (which they are). If that artificial gravity ends at the opening of the bay doors or even a little further out if it's more of a bubble shape around the ship, when the bombs cross from the artificial gravity's area of effect into a zero-gravity environment, they would still retain their inertia and velocity, and would appear to fall in whatever direction the bottom of the ship was facing. The bombs essentially get launched in a sense, by the artificial gravity.

So if you can suspend disbelief and accept the existence of their artificial gravity technology, this is a scientifically sound way to rationalise how the bombs would drop/fall (or at least appear to do so) from the bomber to their target.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: jingle.boy on August 21, 2018, 06:49:59 AM
^ Totally fair and legit.

To some of the comments from the other posts... I never try to objectively prove anything.  Entertainment is entirely 100% subjective - hence my repeated use of "TASTES!" as a response to these types of discussions.  I'm just articulating the reasons for my displeasure.  And it's not as though this one scene ruined the movie for me... there are lots of reasons I disliked the movie - this is just one example that we happened to zone in on the past page or so.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: ariich on August 21, 2018, 07:47:49 AM
Relevant: https://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/arts-entertainment/man-complains-sci-fi-film-is-a-bit-far-fetched-20180821176455

:biggrin:
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: TheOutlawXanadu on August 21, 2018, 08:58:25 AM
I think that Star Wars is a good example of how good will influences our subjective opinions. If you are generally enjoying a movie or at least respect its intentions, you're more likely to let stuff go. If the movie feels off, then you're more likely to notice issues. For some people, mostly trolls, that is an intentional distinction. They might go into the movie determined to hate it or love it. However, for most people it is more subconscious.

For a number of reasons, some legitimate and some not, Star Wars has lost a lot of good will. People are noticing plot holes that they didn't notice before. Movies like Solo are deemed terrible when, at least in my opinion, they are decent films. I've seen a lot of horrific cinema in my time. Solo is not on that level.

By contrast, Marvel has a lot of good will right now, which they deserve. Kevin Feige is brilliant and runs a really tight ship. When a lesser-received film comes out like Thor 2, people just shrug and assume the next one will be better. Star Wars receives no such charity, which I think is somewhat deserved but mostly unfortunate. 90% of the people who make Star Wars movies genuinely love the property, there have just been some missteps along the way. I don't agree with the idea that Lucasfilm doesn't care about Star Wars or are just on a cash grab. I think the new films deserve a little more good will than they are getting, but again, it's all subjective.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Destiny Of Chaos on August 21, 2018, 09:40:58 AM
Respect your opinion, but disagree. No good will for the corporation pumping these movies out as fast as possible. Plenty of good will for the actors themselves and those who are well-intentioned in their involvement of the franchise.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: TheOutlawXanadu on August 21, 2018, 10:15:34 AM
But it's kind of hard to separate the two, isn't it? For example, maybe the executives at Lucasfilm just want some cold, hard cash. However, they hire a lot of very talented people to make their movies, and those people generally have good intentions.

Does that mean that the film deserves good will or ire? And perhaps in contradiction to what I said earlier, does it have to be either? Can a film be both a cash grab and a genuine attempt at art? In the case of The Last Jedi, can it be both a missed opportunity and a decent film?

I think the answer to a lot of these questions is potentially grey. However, in today's climate, everything is a 0/10 or a 10/10. I can't remember reading a single review of The Last Jedi that wasn't overwhelmingly negative or positive.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Destiny Of Chaos on August 21, 2018, 10:26:40 AM
You're right... and I didn't mean to give the impression that I was considering the fact that they're in pump out movies when judging the movies themselves. But I can't help to think that is part of the issue. Could TLJ have benefited from the traditional 3 years instead of 2? Perhaps. And with all of that said, I really liked TFA and LOVE R1.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: gmillerdrake on August 21, 2018, 10:30:54 AM
Could TLJ have benefited from the traditional 3 years instead of 2? Perhaps.

Outside of a couple points from what I can see the issue with TLJ with most 'fans' is the fact they didn't turn Luke into this 'great' Jedi Knight who spent the whole movie light saber dueling and kicking butt.

I personally like the way they handled his story....but admittedly 'wish' they'd have gone a different direction to fit my personal desires but when looking at the film subjectively taking my ambition out of it I like his story better that way
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: pg1067 on August 21, 2018, 10:43:38 AM
I think that Star Wars is a good example of how good will influences our subjective opinions. If you are generally enjoying a movie or at least respect its intentions, you're more likely to let stuff go. If the movie feels off, then you're more likely to notice issues. For some people, mostly trolls, that is an intentional distinction. They might go into the movie determined to hate it or love it. However, for most people it is more subconscious.

For a number of reasons, some legitimate and some not, Star Wars has lost a lot of good will. People are noticing plot holes that they didn't notice before. Movies like Solo are deemed terrible when, at least in my opinion, they are decent films. I've seen a lot of horrific cinema in my time. Solo is not on that level.

I generally agree with all of this.  However, I think there's also something to the fact that social media and discussion boards didn't exist when Eps. 4-6 were released and were still in their relative infancy when Eps. 1-3 were released.  There is simply a lot more opportunity to discuss and dissect these new movies.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: TheOutlawXanadu on August 21, 2018, 10:44:07 AM
You're right... and I didn't mean to give the impression that I was considering the fact that they're in pump out movies when judging the movies themselves. But I can't help to think that is part of the issue. Could TLJ have benefited from the traditional 3 years instead of 2? Perhaps. And with all of that said, I really liked TFA and LOVE R1.

Amen!
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: ariich on August 21, 2018, 11:02:55 AM
I think that Star Wars is a good example of how good will influences our subjective opinions. If you are generally enjoying a movie or at least respect its intentions, you're more likely to let stuff go. If the movie feels off, then you're more likely to notice issues. For some people, mostly trolls, that is an intentional distinction. They might go into the movie determined to hate it or love it. However, for most people it is more subconscious.

For a number of reasons, some legitimate and some not, Star Wars has lost a lot of good will. People are noticing plot holes that they didn't notice before. Movies like Solo are deemed terrible when, at least in my opinion, they are decent films. I've seen a lot of horrific cinema in my time. Solo is not on that level.

I generally agree with all of this.  However, I think there's also something to the fact that social media and discussion boards didn't exist when Eps. 4-6 were released and were still in their relative infancy when Eps. 1-3 were released.  There is simply a lot more opportunity to discuss and dissect these new movies.
I'd also add that (according to my parents anyway) a lot of people disliked Empire when it first came out, and now it's regarded by many fans as the best in the series.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: pg1067 on August 21, 2018, 11:14:47 AM
I think that Star Wars is a good example of how good will influences our subjective opinions. If you are generally enjoying a movie or at least respect its intentions, you're more likely to let stuff go. If the movie feels off, then you're more likely to notice issues. For some people, mostly trolls, that is an intentional distinction. They might go into the movie determined to hate it or love it. However, for most people it is more subconscious.

For a number of reasons, some legitimate and some not, Star Wars has lost a lot of good will. People are noticing plot holes that they didn't notice before. Movies like Solo are deemed terrible when, at least in my opinion, they are decent films. I've seen a lot of horrific cinema in my time. Solo is not on that level.

I generally agree with all of this.  However, I think there's also something to the fact that social media and discussion boards didn't exist when Eps. 4-6 were released and were still in their relative infancy when Eps. 1-3 were released.  There is simply a lot more opportunity to discuss and dissect these new movies.
I'd also add that (according to my parents anyway) a lot of people disliked Empire when it first came out, and now it's regarded by many fans as the best in the series.

Can't say I remember that, but I was just shy of 10 years old when I saw Star Wars at a drive-in theater with my sister, brother-in-law, and crying >1 year old niece and only 12 1/2 years old when I saw Empire.  But yeah...a sense of nostalgia shields the original trilogy from the sort of scrutiny to which the new movies are subjected.

This brings something else to mind.  While some people went and saw Eps. 4-6 multiple times in the theater, most folks saw them only once or twice in the theaters and then didn't see them again for several years until they were released on VHS, Beta, etc.  The opportunities that now exist for folks to nit pick (and to publicize their nit picking) simply didn't exist back then.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: pg1067 on August 21, 2018, 11:31:59 AM
Random curiosity:  What is/was the oldest Star Wars home video release you own (or owned)?

This is mine (from 1992), and I still have it.

(https://starwarsblog.starwars.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/ColBox-Boxed.jpg)

(https://starwarsblog.starwars.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/ColBox-spread.jpg)
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: jingle.boy on August 21, 2018, 11:56:22 AM
Outside of a couple points from what I can see the issue with TLJ with most 'fans' is the fact they didn't turn Luke into this 'great' Jedi Knight who spent the whole movie light saber dueling and kicking butt.

On that matter, I can see why - especially for 'fogeys' - this was a big fucking deal.  The franchise spent three fucking movies (IV-VI) setting Luke up to be exactly that, and in one fell swoop, wiped that out when he tossed his light-sabre over his shoulder.  From that point, he was just a grumpy old man.

For me personally, it wasn't a *huge* deal, just a let-down that TFA had set it up for him to be the 'saviour' for Rebellion 2.0', and instantly Rian ditched that notion.. and then that took Rey - the anchor character of this trilogy - out of the primary storyline for what?? .. 1/2 of the movie?
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: ProfessorPeart on August 21, 2018, 11:57:58 AM
I have the same set. I believe it cost me $100 at Blockbuster Music. Yes, Blockbuster Music.

Still looks brand new.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: ariich on August 21, 2018, 12:12:58 PM
and then that took Rey - the anchor character of this trilogy - out of the primary storyline for what?? .. 1/2 of the movie?
For sure, it's not like the original trilogy took the anchor character out of the main storyline for half the middle movie or anything. :P

As for Luke's story, and indeed other things that appeared to be set up but got subverted (like Rey's heritage), I can appreciate that some people don't like that sort of thing. Personally I enjoy it when things are unexpected or surprising. Again back to the OT, Vader being Luke's father came entirely out of nowhere but it was brilliant and ended up hugely iconic. A lot of the OT (especially A New Hope) doesn't subvert expectations like that, and I just find it less interesting. Empire was phenomenal because (for me) it did things that were unexpected and subverted expectations. TLJ is probably my second favourite in the franchise for exactly the same reason.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: jingle.boy on August 21, 2018, 12:42:48 PM
and then that took Rey - the anchor character of this trilogy - out of the primary storyline for what?? .. 1/2 of the movie?
For sure, it's not like the original trilogy took the anchor character out of the main storyline for half the middle movie or anything. :P

Touche.  I guess the difference for me is that Luke on Dagobah was a critical piece of the growth of Luke's character.  I'm still not sure I understood the growth of the Rey in that stretch with Luke.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: ariich on August 21, 2018, 01:08:18 PM
and then that took Rey - the anchor character of this trilogy - out of the primary storyline for what?? .. 1/2 of the movie?
For sure, it's not like the original trilogy took the anchor character out of the main storyline for half the middle movie or anything. :P

Touche.  I guess the difference for me is that Luke on Dagobah was a critical piece of the growth of Luke's character.  I'm still not sure I understood the growth of the Rey in that stretch with Luke.
I don't have a strong view either way on it yet, I mean I thought TLJ was fantastic overall, but it's part of an ongoing story and so I'll need to see how it plays out.

But yeah mainly I was being facetious. :lol
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: bosk1 on August 21, 2018, 01:08:52 PM
and then that took Rey - the anchor character of this trilogy - out of the primary storyline for what?? .. 1/2 of the movie?
For sure, it's not like the original trilogy took the anchor character out of the main storyline for half the middle movie or anything. :P

Touche.  I guess the difference for me is that Luke on Dagobah was a critical piece of the growth of Luke's character.  I'm still not sure I understood the growth of the Rey in that stretch with Luke.

It is pretty similar.  But the problem is, IMO, it is much clearer that Rey's journey takes place so quickly.  Luke's does as well, but it is less clear that he is only on Dagobah and apparently grows enough to survive a battle with Vader after only a couple of days of training.  It feels like it could possibly be longer, even though it isn't.  With Rey, we KNOW it is only a similarly short timespan because we have the space chase in the back of our minds.  This is one area where I feel like modern moving making has fallen down that could SO easily be remedied.  In TLOTR, you really FEEL the heroes' journey AS A JOURNEY because it takes so long and there are many cues that show the passage of time.  In Star Wars, the Marvel films, etc., you don't.  Everything happens almost instantaneously, and it doesn't feel genuine as a result.  I know this doesn't bother most people, but I guess it bothers me both because it is so unrealistic and because it could easily be cured just by saying that time passed, and having some cues in the film showing that time passed.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: pg1067 on August 21, 2018, 01:53:18 PM
I have the same set. I believe it cost me $100 at Blockbuster Music. Yes, Blockbuster Music.

Still looks brand new.

My guess is that I got mine at Suncoast Video at a mall near where I live.  The pictures I posted are not mind (just images I found on the web).  I used to have three or four different sets of VHS tapes of the original trilogy (plus a set of DVDs).  I think I may have gotten rid of some of the VHS sets when we moved about five years ago.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Cool Chris on August 21, 2018, 08:26:38 PM
(https://starwarsblog.starwars.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/ColBox-Boxed.jpg)

Dang, haven't seen the word "Letterbox" in forever. I remember trying to explain that to everyone and the difference between that and Pan and Scan and having to argue against "BUT IT DOESN'T FILL MY TV SCREEN"
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: ProfessorPeart on August 22, 2018, 10:40:28 AM

Dang, haven't seen the word "Letterbox" in forever. I remember trying to explain that to everyone and the difference between that and Pan and Scan and having to argue against "BUT IT DOESN'T FILL MY TV SCREEN"

I was one of the 'it doesn't fill my screen' idiots. Then I bought Star Trek IV on VHS and it opened with a little documentary hosted by Leonard Nimoy, as he was the director, and he explained the difference between Letterbox and Pan and Scan with split screen examples. From that moment on, I changed sides. Spock schooled me on aspect ratios.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Samsara on August 22, 2018, 03:10:56 PM

Dang, haven't seen the word "Letterbox" in forever. I remember trying to explain that to everyone and the difference between that and Pan and Scan and having to argue against "BUT IT DOESN'T FILL MY TV SCREEN"

I was one of the 'it doesn't fill my screen' idiots. Then I bought Star Trek IV on VHS and it opened with a little documentary hosted by Leonard Nimoy, as he was the director, and he explained the difference between Letterbox and Pan and Scan with split screen examples. From that moment on, I changed sides. Spock schooled me on aspect ratios.


hahaha. I did the same thing when I saw that on Star Trek IV.  :lol
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Phoenix87x on August 22, 2018, 05:38:26 PM
My oldest version that I have (or used to have) was the 97 special edition VHS tapes

(https://pictures.abebooks.com/isbn/9780767729307-us.jpg)

Got it for christmas that year and Boy oh boy, did I watch the ever living shit out of those tapes. Good times.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Cool Chris on August 22, 2018, 06:12:03 PM
I had that too, found it recently going through some old stuff at my parents' house. But mine was silver. Is there a difference? Widescreen/P&S?

I was one of the 'it doesn't fill my screen' idiots. Then I bought Star Trek IV on VHS and it opened with a little documentary hosted by Leonard Nimoy, as he was the director, and he explained the difference between Letterbox and Pan and Scan with split screen examples. From that moment on, I changed sides. Spock schooled me on aspect ratios.

Roger Ebert was a big proponent of it early on. I remember seeing him talk about it in a very clear "Let me educate you without talking down to you" way which he was good at. The video store I frequented had a nice binder prepared with pictures and such to show to customers.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Phoenix87x on August 22, 2018, 06:19:10 PM
I had that too, found it recently going through some old stuff at my parents' house. But mine was silver. Is there a difference? Widescreen/P&S?


You are correct and oh man, did that question drive me nuts as a little kid. "oh, its silver. It must be better. It must have different stuff, what could it be?"  :lol   

But yeah, the silver was just wide screen, which I didn't even know what that was back in 97. We just had the full screen tv.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: jammindude on August 22, 2018, 07:07:46 PM
I still got this bad boy....

(http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r47/jammindude/7CFDC646-6AEC-4C39-9D14-355D913EE7D1_zps0jal4ral.jpg)
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Adami on August 22, 2018, 07:14:38 PM
Oh sorry, I was looking for the Star Wars thread, not sure how I accidentally clicked on the Old Fogey's thread.


Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: jammindude on August 22, 2018, 07:49:00 PM
Oh sorry, I was looking for the Star Wars thread, not sure how I accidentally clicked on the Old Fogey's thread.

Ahhhh yes, I remember when I first saw your grandmother.   It was in a mosh pit at an Alice in Chains concert in the summer of ought two.....

[glazed look of nostalgia]   Ahhhh, she was a cute little filly.  She was wearing her nipple ring....you see, that was the style at the time...   
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Cool Chris on August 22, 2018, 09:08:15 PM
I had that version jammindude has - might still be at my parents' house unless they purged it as part of the "You are 40 we aren't keeping all your shit in our house no more."
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: pg1067 on August 23, 2018, 10:53:08 AM
My oldest version that I have (or used to have) was the 97 special edition VHS tapes

(https://pictures.abebooks.com/isbn/9780767729307-us.jpg)

Got it for christmas that year and Boy oh boy, did I watch the ever living shit out of those tapes. Good times.

I had that too -- the silver one, which I think was the letterbox version, whereas the gold version was "pan and scan."  I think I got rid of the VHS version when I got the DVD version.


I still got this bad boy....

(http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r47/jammindude/7CFDC646-6AEC-4C39-9D14-355D913EE7D1_zps0jal4ral.jpg)

I think I had that one too.  It was released in 1995 -- in between the "Special Letterbox Collector's Edition" (1992) and the "Special Editions" (1997)."  I'm not sure if I still have it somewhere or, if not, why I got rid of it.  If nothing else, the box is cool.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: cramx3 on August 23, 2018, 12:26:55 PM
My oldest version that I have (or used to have) was the 97 special edition VHS tapes

(https://pictures.abebooks.com/isbn/9780767729307-us.jpg)

Got it for christmas that year and Boy oh boy, did I watch the ever living shit out of those tapes. Good times.

Same here, I had these Gold VHS tapes.  Got many plays with them back as a kid.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: gmillerdrake on August 23, 2018, 12:46:36 PM
Would be curious to know just how much $$$ Lucas made off of re-re-releasing the OT those multiple times?
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: pg1067 on August 23, 2018, 01:24:35 PM
Would be curious to know just how much $$$ Lucas made off of re-re-releasing the OT those multiple times?

I believe the technical term is "shitload."
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: bosk1 on August 23, 2018, 01:59:25 PM
Yes, but metric or English standard?
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: pg1067 on August 23, 2018, 03:16:10 PM
Yes, but metric or English standard?

The term my 16yo son used to use was "metric poop-ton."
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: lordxizor on August 24, 2018, 05:31:36 AM
So I watched The Last Jedi last night for the first time since the theaters. The funny thing is, I get every single criticism of the movie that I've read about. I don't love the way they went with Luke for the first half of the movie. There a ton of little nit picky things that I would prefer were done differently. But that being said, I still really love this movie. The highs really overcome the lows for me. I almost wish they had gone even farther with the unexpected twists. Killing Snope I thought was great. I almost wish Rey had joined Kylo Ren or that he had turned good, something to take the unexpected even farther. Really looking forward to seeing how Ep. 9 wraps it all up.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: cramx3 on August 24, 2018, 07:38:23 AM
I rewatched Rogue One for the first time since seeing it in theaters.  I was pretty harsh on it after my first viewing.  I rank it pretty close to the bottom of all SW movies.  However, I definitely enjoyed it more on a second watch.  My biggest criticisms were towards the characters being uninteresting, as in, I never really grew to care about them.  I still feel this way, there's really very little build up to any of the characters storylines to make me feel very emotional when the end comes for them all.  But I will say, putting that aside, I defintiely just enjoyed the entertainment factor of the movie a lot more.  Maybe because I understood the characters more so I wasn't so focuses on trying to care, and more about just enjoying the action scenes which I think were all well done.  The storyline itself isn't really bad either and the tie in to episode 1 is great.  Overall, I think it's better than I first thought, but still would say it's one of my least favorites based on the strengths of the rest of the movies (episodes 1 and 2 are probably below it and I haven't seen Solo, yet).
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Samsara on September 05, 2018, 10:28:17 AM
Re: Rogue One

I think I mentioned a few times how much I love the film. It has probably ascended to be my favorite Star Wars film (I know, I know, maybe 1a and 1b with Empire Strikes Back). I dove into the extended universe related to the film recently, reading Catalyst by James Luceno, which set the stage for Rogue One. Wow, talk about the PERFECT intro to the movie. I wish I would have read it before watching Rogue One, honestly. I would have loved it even more. I picked up a couple of other novels (one that tells Jyn's story, and one that is a short story telling the tale of Baze and Chirrut) that I'll start next. And then read the novel adaptation of Rogue One itself (which apparently fills in some more gaps).

I just find the whole Rogue One series to be really compelling (I ended up buying up a ton of toys and collectables for the collection as well during the TRU blowout). Just great stuff.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: bosk1 on September 05, 2018, 10:45:10 AM
It is so hard to find time to read things like that nowadays, but that all sounds pretty cool.  I might have to take the plunge at some point since R1 is also MY favorite SW film (the ending STILL makes me mad, but oh well).
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Samsara on September 05, 2018, 10:53:18 AM
It is so hard to find time to read things like that nowadays, but that all sounds pretty cool.  I might have to take the plunge at some point since R1 is also MY favorite SW film (the ending STILL makes me mad, but oh well).

The Vader/Leia thing? I don't think we ever talked about it. I sorta like it because it ties it directly in.

Catalyst is absolutely worth your time to read, bosk1. No-brainer.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: bosk1 on September 05, 2018, 11:06:47 AM
It is so hard to find time to read things like that nowadays, but that all sounds pretty cool.  I might have to take the plunge at some point since R1 is also MY favorite SW film (the ending STILL makes me mad, but oh well).

The Vader/Leia thing? I don't think we ever talked about it. I sorta like it because it ties it directly in.

I must be misremembering, but I thought we had talked about that fairly recently.  I LOVE the Vader part.  The Leia thing was great to tie into ANH, in principle.  In execution, it was stupid.  Her ship should not have been there.  It just shouldn't.  There is no way one of your most important non-military leaders is present for a Hail Mary mission that is likely a suicide mission.  Seriously.  There is just NO WAY that makes any sense.  The way it SHOULD have gone down is, they get the plans and communicate with Leia's ship that they are going to rendezvous with her ship a short distance away, and Vader intercepts that transmission and shows up at the rendezvous point.  Having that happen AT SCARIF was not believable and annoyed me.  Related to that, the R2/C3PO cameo on Yavin IV was a bit silly.  I'm okay with them being in the film as well.  But it should have been on the ship, not on Yavin IV. 

The other thing that bothered me a bit was the fact that X-Wings can travel vast distances in a matter of seconds to launch an assault, but that is a gripe of modern Star Wars in general and not limited to this film.  I wish they would just allow a believable lapse in time for things rather than making everything instantaneous.

Anyhow, those are fairly minor gripes.  But they also would have been SO easy to fix to make the film more believable without adding any additional run time.

Catalyst is absolutely worth your time to read, bosk1. No-brainer.

Yeah, maybe I'll just start there then.  Thanks for the gateway drug book suggestion, my pusher.  :lol
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Samsara on September 05, 2018, 11:14:04 AM

Yeah, maybe I'll just start there then.  Thanks for the gateway drug book suggestion, my pusher.  :lol

Any time. Catalyst tells the story of the Ersos and their relationship with Krennic - where it started and how it evolved. Just a super read.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: MirrorMask on September 22, 2018, 03:45:55 PM
Finally got around to see Solo. I've read that it didn't do that good and I was half resigned to a suckage, but it was quite good after all!

Sure, the mandatory "origin story" beats were there: meeting Chewie, Lando, getting the Millennium Falcon.... but they could have been much more on the nose. Some callbacks were clever, like  "I have a very good feeling about this" for a change, and "I hate you" - "I know" with Lando. And come on, the scene where Han and Chewie first sit together at the commands with the Star Wars theme playing was awesome, fan service sure, but great fan service!

There were also some things I didn't anticipate, like the pirate mercenaries being led by a young girl, and Q'ira going to the dark side so to speak (What was up with Not-Darth Maul? they regretted killing him off so quickly in Episode I and now they want a lookalike for future spinoffs?). The presence of a love interest not to be seen in later movies had "Tragic death" written all over her, but they were unpredictable. Can you imagine how cheesy would have been if she had died and as she lay dying she'd tell Han "go on with your life, you'll find someone else" with him replying something like "where will I find another smart princess like you?".... I like how they handled her character.

Not a masterpiece but not a sucky movie either. And also we find out that the famous (and scienticially incorrect) "Kessel run in 12 parsecs" thing was not entirely accurated and tha Han cheated with the calculations, hehe!
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: jingle.boy on September 23, 2018, 06:39:31 AM
Can you imagine how cheesy would have been if she had died and as she lay dying she'd tell Han "go on with your life, you'll find someone else" with him replying something like "where will I find another smart princess like you?"....

That would have been gloriously cheesy!
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: eric42434224 on September 23, 2018, 10:43:46 AM
Finally got around to see Solo. I've read that it didn't do that good and I was half resigned to a suckage, but it was quite good after all!

Sure, the mandatory "origin story" beats were there: meeting Chewie, Lando, getting the Millennium Falcon.... but they could have been much more on the nose. Some callbacks were clever, like  "I have a very good feeling about this" for a change, and "I hate you" - "I know" with Lando. And come on, the scene where Han and Chewie first sit together at the commands with the Star Wars theme playing was awesome, fan service sure, but great fan service!

There were also some things I didn't anticipate, like the pirate mercenaries being led by a young girl, and Q'ira going to the dark side so to speak (What was up with Not-Darth Maul? they regretted killing him off so quickly in Episode I and now they want a lookalike for future spinoffs?). The presence of a love interest not to be seen in later movies had "Tragic death" written all over her, but they were unpredictable. Can you imagine how cheesy would have been if she had died and as she lay dying she'd tell Han "go on with your life, you'll find someone else" with him replying something like "where will I find another smart princess like you?".... I like how they handled her character.

Not a masterpiece but not a sucky movie either. And also we find out that the famous (and scienticially incorrect) "Kessel run in 12 parsecs" thing was not entirely accurated and tha Han cheated with the calculations, hehe!

That was Darth Maul.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: MirrorMask on September 23, 2018, 11:23:32 AM
And how they decided he survived his fall in a bottomless chasm with the minor injury of being cut in half?
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Adami on September 23, 2018, 11:26:31 AM
And how they decided he survived his fall in a bottomless chasm with the minor injury of being cut in half?

I'm thinking they should make a team of everyone who has fallen thousands of feet to their death but somehow survived.

Get Palpatine in there and, hell...let's even give Han Solo some metal legs and bring him back too!
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: MirrorMask on September 23, 2018, 12:47:18 PM
I wonder if they'll ever dare make a "young Palpatine" movie, showing his origins. I mean, his pre-origins before the Prequel Trilogy.

Think of it, the Prequel Trilogy was all about a very criticized and maligned Darth Vader origin story.... while actually hidden within it was an awesome origin story for Palpatine. Come on, I dare anyone to say that Palpatine (and in great part thanks to Ian McDiarmid) wasn't one of the best things about the prequel.... his rise to power was simply awesome to behold.

Now that I think of it, what was the reaction, for those of you being fans back in the day, to see the actor portraying the Emperor being cast as a senator of the republic? was it a dead giveaway that George Lucas made no mystery about or they thought that new fans would just go along with it not being acquainted with each and every single actor of the original trilogy? I mean, if you watch The Phantom Menace alone Palpatine flies really under the radar, it's since Attack of the Clones that is starting to become obvious he's the one under Darth Sidious' cloak as well.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Logain Ablar on September 24, 2018, 03:03:37 AM
I thought Palpatine's development through the prequels was fine, and the scene in the opera where Palpy is luring Anakin to the dark side was well done, really dark and brooding. It was very evident that he was using Anakin's grief, together with some vague promises of dark side abilities to turn the screw.

Though, where it fell off a cliff for me is his actual transformation into the Emperor. There's some very OTT acting ("Powahh, unlimited powahhh!!"  :lol), then he produces a lightsaber and starts bouncing about with Yoda. Just far too much for me. I didn't care for the makeup/prosthetics either - to me the whole look seemed totally different than what we'd seen in RotJ.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: MirrorMask on September 24, 2018, 03:15:46 AM
Well, it made sense that he'd secretly sneak in the lightsaber, to use it in case of extreme peril.

And he used it against Mace Windu, the battle with Yoda was later, when he was already Emperor. And that has some badass lines.  "Powaaaaah, unlimited powaaah" was indeed over the top, but him gloating and fiendishly laughing at Yoda and saying calmly and savoring the moment "I have waited a long time for this moment.... finally, the Jedi are no more" was a kickass line. Also Yoda's retort "Not if anything to say about it I have" was great.

Almost related, I also think that with a little tweaking Anakin's conversion could have been more convincing. He snaps all of a sudden, all it took was some severe pains for Padme, with her shrugging it off as "it's normal Anakin, it's some contractions, don't worry about it", and Anakin panicking "oh shit I'm gonna lose my baby, Palpatine was right all along", and then running frantically to him and completely losing it over fear and panic, thus justifying in that state of mind his hand-slicing of Mace Windu.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: pg1067 on September 24, 2018, 11:45:04 AM
And how they decided he survived his fall in a bottomless chasm with the minor injury of being cut in half?

It was his identical twin:  Darth Paul.

Seriously...it turns out there is a story line from one of the cartoon series (can't remember if it's The Clone Wars or Rebels) that explains this, and Maul's appearance in Solo is an offshoot of that story line.

I complained earlier in this thread about the use of story lines from those cartoons in the movies, given that a significant percentage (maybe even a majority) of folks who see the movies haven't seen the cartoons and will therefore be completely baffled.  I know that the cartoons are "officially" "canon," but I still find it annoying.

My biggest gripe with Solo was I didn't really need an "origin story" and, while Solo wasn't bad, I didn't think it was all that good either (and having anyone other than Harrison Ford play Han had very little chance of succeeding).
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: ZirconBlue on September 24, 2018, 07:03:02 PM
(and having anyone other than Harrison Ford play Han had very little chance of succeeding).


I watched Solo and Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade the same week recently.  River Phoenix absolutely nailed the part of a young Indy. 
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Cool Chris on September 24, 2018, 07:26:45 PM
River Phoenix had worked with Ford prior to that and knew some of his mannerisms. Though it is hard for me to pinpoint how he incorporated that in to his performance, it was spot on regardless. He also had the guy who directed Ford twice in the role direct him as well.

"Origin" stories can work, even if no one really wanted them to begin with. Not sure if in 1973 people were clamoring for Vito Corleone's backstory. But we got it. And it's generally regarded as not only one of the best sequel's of all time, but one of the landmark films in cinema*. And the dude who played the role of young Vito was showered with accolades.

* I think I still prefer the first movie b a slim margin.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: pg1067 on September 25, 2018, 10:23:17 AM
(and having anyone other than Harrison Ford play Han had very little chance of succeeding).


I watched Solo and Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade the same week recently.  River Phoenix absolutely nailed the part of a young Indy.

That worked because it was what...10 minutes in a much larger movie?  If it had been a whole movie, I don't think it would've been well received.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: ronnibran on September 26, 2018, 04:00:54 PM
I wonder if they'll ever dare make a "young Palpatine" movie, showing his origins. I mean, his pre-origins before the Prequel Trilogy.

Think of it, the Prequel Trilogy was all about a very criticized and maligned Darth Vader origin story.... while actually hidden within it was an awesome origin story for Palpatine. Come on, I dare anyone to say that Palpatine (and in great part thanks to Ian McDiarmid) wasn't one of the best things about the prequel.... his rise to power was simply awesome to behold.

Now that I think of it, what was the reaction, for those of you being fans back in the day, to see the actor portraying the Emperor being cast as a senator of the republic? was it a dead giveaway that George Lucas made no mystery about or they thought that new fans would just go along with it not being acquainted with each and every single actor of the original trilogy? I mean, if you watch The Phantom Menace alone Palpatine flies really under the radar, it's since Attack of the Clones that is starting to become obvious he's the one under Darth Sidious' cloak as well.

If you are into reading, the book ďDarth PlageusĒ is just as much a Palpatine origin story as it is about Darth Plageus. First Star Wars novel I ever read, was very good.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Samsara on September 27, 2018, 08:54:39 AM
Since Solo is out on Blu-ray this week, I wanted to pop in and say how much I have enjoyed both of the non-Skywalker films. I think Solo got a tremendously bad rap it didn't deserve. Frankly, it was a better movie than The Last Jedi, IMO.

I haven't re-watched Solo yet (I bought it on 4k this Tuesday, but waiting to watch it with the fam), but I did watch part of the bonus disc that had a roundtable with the cast and other stuff. They all really did a good job. I don't think Solo suffered from quality. I think its more measured return at the box office was more due to Star Wars overload in general. Glad they are hitting pause on some stuff (or appear to be). Need to spread it out, and stop being so greedy and immediate.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: bosk1 on September 27, 2018, 09:20:11 AM
I haven't seen it yet.  But now that it is out, I will shortly. 
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Phoenix87x on September 27, 2018, 02:52:23 PM
Since Solo is out on Blu-ray this week, I wanted to pop in and say how much I have enjoyed both of the non-Skywalker films. I think Solo got a tremendously bad rap it didn't deserve. Frankly, it was a better movie than The Last Jedi, IMO.


I agree 100%. I have really enjoyed both Rogue one and Solo as well.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Orbert on October 01, 2018, 07:35:29 AM
Saw Solo over the weekend.  It was fun.  I avoided as much as I could about the movie before seeing it, and was surprised at some of the cast.  I knew about Glover as young Lando, and Emilia as The Girl Person, but Woody was a surprise, as was Paul Bettany.

The story was okay, had a twist or two, and like all Star Wars movies, moved along so quickly that you didn't have time to think about whether or not any of it made sense, so you just sit back and enjoy the ride.  All the required bits were there, as mentioned earlier, and pretty well done.  Maybe not how I would've done them, but no one asked me.

The Darth Maul thing was silly.  I was like "Okay, so he's the local Sith dude, we know there are a bunch of them, like cartel bosses or whatever... wait, is this before or after Episode... which one was he in before?  Ah, fuck it..." and I stopped thinking about it because I realized that the story had moved on and I was missing some of it worrying about something they're obviously not going to explain.  And just to make sure we all knew who he was, he actually extended both beams of his light saber for no reason while just sitting there.  Okay.

The scene with Lando and L3 was surprisingly moving.  I bought it.  She was right!  It was played for laughs earlier (or at least I took it that way), but she was right.

Han shot first.  Ha!  It was the right call, objectively, and his opponent even told him so.  That was a great scene.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: lordxizor on October 01, 2018, 08:09:28 AM
I honestly hope Solo does well enough on home video to justify the two sequels that were originally planned. Obviously with a lower budget, but I'm intrigued where the Maul thing was going. I'd hate to just see it end like that. Heck a Qi'ra and Maul movie with them being bad-ass gangsters would be kinda fun.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: MirrorMask on October 01, 2018, 08:12:39 AM
The story was okay, had a twist or two, and like all Star Wars movies, moved along so quickly that you didn't have time to think about whether or not any of it made sense, so you just sit back and enjoy the ride.

You just discovered the secret to 95% of the twists and reveals of any movie ever  :lol

A good twist should be like the Bruce Willis one in the Sixth Sense. You should feel silly for not getting it ("of course he was dead... nobody was talking to him!"), not say "Wait, what?".

Also, the guy playing Han Solo got perfectly Harrison Ford's mannerims of posing with a gun. Very great job on his behalf. I assume most of us can, even for fun, pretend to be a character, but to portray accurately someone else's way of speaking and walking, that's what being an actor is really about.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: TheOutlawXanadu on October 01, 2018, 08:54:21 AM
I haven't re-watched Solo yet (I bought it on 4k this Tuesday, but waiting to watch it with the fam), but I did watch part of the bonus disc that had a roundtable with the cast and other stuff. They all really did a good job. I don't think Solo suffered from quality. I think its more measured return at the box office was more due to Star Wars overload in general. Glad they are hitting pause on some stuff (or appear to be). Need to spread it out, and stop being so greedy and immediate.

Releasing Solo in May instead of December was a terrible move. If they had waited until Christmas, like the other recent movies, the film might have grossed twice as much.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Orbert on October 01, 2018, 06:32:40 PM
The story was okay, had a twist or two, and like all Star Wars movies, moved along so quickly that you didn't have time to think about whether or not any of it made sense, so you just sit back and enjoy the ride.

You just discovered the secret to 95% of the twists and reveals of any movie ever  :lol

A good twist should be like the Bruce Willis one in the Sixth Sense. You should feel silly for not getting it ("of course he was dead... nobody was talking to him!"), not say "Wait, what?".

Totally agree.  Sure, you want to be entertained in the moment, and that's good enough for a lot of people.  But I like to think back on what I've just seen, usually discuss it with people, take it apart.  Others will point out things that I missed, and in a way I feel like I'm getting more out of it.  If a "twist" doesn't survive any kind of scrutiny, then it was literally just there to fuck with the audience, not because it made any actual sense.  And I don't like being fucked with.

The Sixth Sense (I know, we're getting off topic) is one of my all-time favorite twists because it works.  They established that Willis' character doesn't talk a lot anyway.  The editing is such that you just assume that you've come into the scene at a quiet point, so there's no talking, and your brain fills in the rest.  Like when the kid comes home, and Willis is sitting there in a chair across from the mom.  Mom gets up to go do something else and let the two of them talk.  You buy it because it all seems normal.  Only on reflection do you realize that you've been played, but you bought it.  It all worked.

Also, the guy playing Han Solo got perfectly Harrison Ford's mannerims of posing with a gun. Very great job on his behalf. I assume most of us can, even for fun, pretend to be a character, but to portray accurately someone else's way of speaking and walking, that's what being an actor is really about.

Story of course is important, and special effects in a Star Wars movie are a given, so for me it came down to whether or not you accept him as a younger version of Han Solo.  I bought it.  He looked close enough, and had the mannerisms and speech patterns good enough for me to buy in.  And Glover as Lando was even better.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Samsara on October 02, 2018, 11:47:06 AM

Story of course is important, and special effects in a Star Wars movie are a given, so for me it came down to whether or not you accept him as a younger version of Han Solo.  I bought it.  He looked close enough, and had the mannerisms and speech patterns good enough for me to buy in.  And Glover as Lando was even better.

I went in skeptical. But both won me over. Particularly Glover as Lando. IMO, he stole the show.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Orbert on October 02, 2018, 12:01:35 PM
Yeah, that first scene with Lando was great.  You hear his voice before you see him, and you just known it's Lando.  Glover had the part down tight.
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: Polarbear on October 04, 2018, 02:25:49 AM
New live action Star Wars show by John Favreau, will be called "Star Wars: The Mandalorian".

In His tweet Favreau said that the main character will be a lone Mandalorian gunslinger, who travels the Outer Rim. It is set in the years between Return of the Jedi and The Force Awakens.

I'm getting a real western vibe from this, I hope the show delivers!
Title: Re: Star Wars Discussion Thread v.The Last Jedi
Post by: pg1067 on October 04, 2018, 10:12:21 AM
I'd rather see a show about a Midichlorian gunslinger.