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General => General Music Discussion => Topic started by: Nick on September 27, 2017, 01:19:59 PM

Title: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Nick on September 27, 2017, 01:19:59 PM
Old thread here: https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=49857.0

Folks, as we move forward with this thread a couple of things we would like to remind everyone of.

1. Personal attacks are not allowed. Please keep the discussion civil among your follow posters.

2. You can constructively critique anything you want, but outright bashing or personal attacks on Portnoy or Sherinian (or the other members) will not be tolerated.

3. As a simple request, let's try to enjoy the upcoming release and not get too bogged down in any negative comments or events. That's not a rule or anything, just me being a temporary hippie so we can all be a little happier.

What we have so far:
Coming Home Video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J_1N8kVYfkE

Signs of the Time video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TLVWkqnN3Ck

Press release:
Quote
APOLLO: The ancient Greek and Roman God of music and poetry.
SONS OF APOLLO: The new supergroup featuring members of Dream Theater, Mr. Big, Guns ‘N Roses, and Journey.

For the past few months, rumors have been circulating about a new secret project including former Dream Theater members Mike Portnoy and Derek Sherinian. Now, the time has come to make the grand and highly anticipated introduction to their new band, SONS OF APOLLO.

Reuniting to form SONS OF APOLLO, Portnoy and Sherinian have joined forces with Ron “Bumblefoot” Thal (ex-Guns N’ Roses), Billy Sheehan (The Winery Dogs, Mr. Big, David Lee Roth) and Jeff Scott Soto (ex-Journey, ex-Yngwie Malmsteen’s Rising Force). Their debut album, PSYCHOTIC SYMPHONY, will be released October 20 on InsideOutMusic/Sony Music.

PSYCHOTIC SYMPHONY was produced by the dynamic production duo of Portnoy and Sherinian, also affectionately known as “The Del Fuvio Brothers,” which is the nickname given to them over 20 years ago during their time together in Dream Theater.

SONS OF APOLLO got together very organically, as Portnoy explains: “Derek and I reunited shortly after I left Dream Theater in 2010 and we put together an all-instrumental touring band with he and I, Billy Sheehan, and Tony MacAlpine. That was my first time working with Derek since the ‘90s when he was in Dream Theater and it was just great to be working with him again. Ever since that tour, which was really just a one-off live thing, he has been nudging me to start a real, original, full-time band. The timing just had never been right, because I had too many other things on my plate. Long story short, the time was finally right to take the bait and put together a band.”

“Mike and I work at a relentless pace in the studio,” continues Sherinian. “The music is modern, but we have an old school soul. What is unique about SONS OF APOLLO is that we have true rock n’ roll swagger along with the virtuosity– a lethal combination!”

But what to call the next great supergroup? “Derek was mainly the one behind the name,” says Portnoy. “I have a list that I keep on my phone of about a hundred different band names, which I constantly have to refer to every time I have a new band every year (laughs). So, I pulled up the list and Apollo was one of the names on the list. It was a word that both of us really liked. We started fiddling with different variations of the word. One of the original band names we were working with was Apollo Creed, the character from the ‘Rocky’ movies, but after lots of different discussions on different variations, Derek suggested SONS OF APOLLO and it seemed to stick. Apollo is the God of Music so with that in mind it seemed like a fitting name.”

Mike Portnoy, Derek Sherinian and Billy Sheehan previously toured together in 2012 and 2013 as PSMS (along with guitarist Tony MacAlpine), playing all instrumental versions from each of their previously recorded music. SONS OF APOLLO is the next logical progression by adding a vocalist and creating all-original material. The band incorporates the progressive style and individual technical prowess that Portnoy & Sherinian shared together in Dream Theater combined with the swagger and groove of Van Halen, Deep Purple and Led Zeppelin.

“I have known Mike and Derek for a long time, so when they came to me with Sons of Apollo, I jumped on this straight away,” says Thomas Waber, Label Manager/A&R International of InsideOutMusic. “However, the album they ended up recording exceeded my already high expectations by a long mile! We couldn’t be happier about it!”

SONS OF APOLLO will hit the road in 2018 for their first worldwide tour.

“This is a real band,” Portnoy declares. “This is going to pick up for me and Billy where The Winery Dogs left off, in terms of this being the next logical full-time thing for us. I’m not saying The Winery Dogs have broken up, because we haven’t, we’re just on a break. SONS OF APOLLO is absolutely going to be a full-time band and we plan on touring all over the world all throughout 2018 and, honestly, it is the priority for all five of us.”

Sherinian agrees, “We will go on a worldwide crusade in 2018 to bring SONS OF APOLLO to as many people as possible. Apollo was the God of Music, and we are his mighty offspring!”

PSYCHOTIC SYMPHONY

1. God of The Sun
2. Coming Home
3. Signs of the Time
4. Labyrinth
5. Alive
6. Lost In Oblivion
7. Figaro's Whore
8. Divine Addiction
9. Opus Maximus
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: SystematicThought on September 27, 2017, 01:25:22 PM
I’m gonna check it out when it is released.

Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Mindflux on September 27, 2017, 01:26:29 PM
I have it preordered.. reserving final judgement for release day.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: King Postwhore on September 27, 2017, 01:36:02 PM
If not, Nick will bash you with his extremely grotesquely large  fists.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Samsara on September 27, 2017, 01:43:52 PM
Thanks, Nick.

I'm pretty excited for this record. I loved Falling Into Infinity, and continue to really love Derek's work (Black Country Communion rocks). His tone is just amazing. I really haven't sat down and listened to the first two preview tracks (which are probably not indicative of the record anyway, given the prog nature of the project).

I'm a bit on the fence about JSS, Billy Sheehan, and Bumblefoot. I really wish Mike and Derek would have gone elsewhere on both bass and guitar. Nothing against those two, but I'm sorta tired of seeing Billy in everything Mike does, and Bumble...he's an amazing player, but he has never really resonated with me.

I really enjoy JSS, but have a hard time placing him in what my personal expectation is for the band. I hope it works out really well. What I really hope is that this is a permanent band, rather than an MP project. My suspicion is, this will be a band until DT needs a drummer again, and then it'll fold up.

But in the meantime, I am thrilled to have Sons of Apollo, because I very much enjoy what Derek brings as a keyboardist and writer, and of course the drumming of Portnoy. HOpefully it all comes together in a great way. Bring on the record!
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Polarbear on September 27, 2017, 01:49:19 PM
Thanks, Nick.

I'm pretty excited for this record. I loved Falling Into Infinity, and continue to really love Derek's work (Black Country Communion rocks). His tone is just amazing. I really haven't sat down and listened to the first two preview tracks (which are probably not indicative of the record anyway, given the prog nature of the project).

I'm a bit on the fence about JSS, Billy Sheehan, and Bumblefoot. I really wish Mike and Derek would have gone elsewhere on both bass and guitar. Nothing against those two, but I'm sorta tired of seeing Billy in everything Mike does, and Bumble...he's an amazing player, but he has never really resonated with me.

I really enjoy JSS, but have a hard time placing him in what my personal expectation is for the band. I hope it works out really well. What I really hope is that this is a permanent band, rather than an MP project. My suspicion is, this will be a band until DT needs a drummer again, and then it'll fold up.

But in the meantime, I am thrilled to have Sons of Apollo, because I very much enjoy what Derek brings as a keyboardist and writer, and of course the drumming of Portnoy. HOpefully it all comes together in a great way. Bring on the record!

Well said! I'm pretty excited as well. I liked the two songs released so far!

And for the record, i love seeing Billy in all these different projects.

Let's hope this thread doesn't fly off the rails like the previous one. :lol
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: emtee on September 27, 2017, 01:53:43 PM
Looking forward to see what the longer songs do for me. When I first heard that JSS was going to be the vocalist I was thinking
he would have more of that Steve Perry tonality but I was WAY off on that one :-*

Nothing wrong a a good rock album that incorporates some proggish elements and with MP on the skins you really can't go wrong
IMO.

Soon.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: TAC on September 27, 2017, 02:00:17 PM
Thanks for posting the links to the released tracks in the OP.


Just watched the Coming Home vid again. What's the point of the double neck guitars? Sheehan doesn't isn't even shown playing the top neck, and Bfoot surely didn't need both either.

I just think that's lame. Like some 13 year old kid might be like "Oh cool!".

Oh, and the tuning on Sign Of the Times. I hope there's not more of that.

Forget the twitter nonsense. What has really turned me off to this album are these two tracks.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: kaos2900 on September 27, 2017, 02:04:26 PM
Thanks for posting the links to the released tracks in the OP.


Just watched the Coming Home vid again. What's the point of the double neck guitars? Sheehan doesn't isn't even shown playing the top neck, and Bfoot surely didn't need both either.

I just think that's lame. Like some 13 year old kid might be like "Oh cool!".

Oh, and the tuning on Sign Of the Times. I hope there's not more of that.

Forget the twitter nonsense. What has really turned me off to this album are these two tracks.

I had the same thought. I get Bumblefoot with the fretless neck but I think Sheehan busted his out just to look cool.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: TAC on September 27, 2017, 02:06:12 PM
Oh, one neck was fretless? I didn't even notice.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ariich on September 27, 2017, 02:07:29 PM
I'm definitely looking forward to the album. Just listened to Signs of the Time for the first time since it was first released, and it's a really solid song. Decent riff, strong chorus, and some really nice soloing.

Coming Home is... fine. Nothing wrong with it, but nothing very exciting either. But I'm assuming it's right at the simpler end of the album and was released as a single to cater to a different audience, so it hasn't really dampened my anticipation.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bosk1 on September 27, 2017, 02:13:19 PM
Just watched the Coming Home vid again. What's the point of the double neck guitars? Sheehan doesn't isn't even shown playing the top neck, and Bfoot surely didn't need both either.

I just think that's lame. Like some 13 year old kid might be like "Oh cool!".

Well, as pointed out, Bumblefoot's is because he likes using the fretless on some parts, but not the entire song, so that's cool.  For Billy, if it were in a live setting, the only practical use I could see since they are both 4 string fretted necks is if they are in different tunings.  It's also possible he has different strings on them (with either a lower string like a standard 5 string, or a higher string like a 5 string tenor).  But I tend to think it was strictly for show.  And Billy has ALWAYS been about showmanship.  That's just kinda his thing.  And if that's all it is, that's cool too.  Why slag the guy for it?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: MirrorMask on September 27, 2017, 02:15:56 PM
Coming Home is... fine. Nothing wrong with it, but nothing very exciting either. But I'm assuming it's right at the simpler end of the album and was released as a single to cater to a different audience, so it hasn't really dampened my anticipation.

But one has to wonder: what's the kind of audience of a band that has two ex members of Dream Theater?

As I said in the other thread before it got nuked, in this day and age you don't need to strictly adhere to the old "singles" rules. They can sure have a video for Coming Home, but they could as well do a lyric video of the opening 10 minutes track and post it a week or so before the release to spark the interest of those longing for more intricate pieces.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: The Walrus on September 27, 2017, 02:16:38 PM
Any time I see multiple necks/unnecessary things it just brings me back to the Rhapsody - Unholy Warcry video with the keyboardist standing behind 6 keyboards in the grass not even plugged into anything. It's silly, but if that's Billy's thing to have two necks, his call.  :lol
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: TAC on September 27, 2017, 02:19:15 PM
Just watched the Coming Home vid again. What's the point of the double neck guitars? Sheehan doesn't isn't even shown playing the top neck, and Bfoot surely didn't need both either.

I just think that's lame. Like some 13 year old kid might be like "Oh cool!".

Well, as pointed out, Bumblefoot's is because he likes using the fretless on some parts, but not the entire song, so that's cool.  For Billy, if it were in a live setting, the only practical use I could see since they are both 4 string fretted necks is if they are in different tunings.  It's also possible he has different strings on them (with either a lower string like a standard 5 string, or a higher string like a 5 string tenor).  But I tend to think it was strictly for show.  And Billy has ALWAYS been about showmanship.  That's just kinda his thing.  And if that's all it is, that's cool too.  Why slag the guy for it?

So I had no idea about the fretless thingy. But to me, the double neck bass comes off as a cheap gimmick.


Actually, looking at the SOA logo, it seems that the double necks are part of it.

Anyway, I just feel like if you're gonna have the double necks, then let's f'n use them for something complex. But to have them for show on a pretty average track, if just comes off as cheap to me.

But that's me. :)
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: The Silent Cody on September 27, 2017, 02:29:20 PM
Thanks for summing it up! New, fresh thread ;)
Well, 20th of October is coming and it will be a very good day for me, two releases that I'm waiting for. New Europe album, and Sons Of Apollo of course. Where are my thoughts now according to Sons Of Apollo? Well, for the first - I think that it is a really bad band name... I don't like it. Hope that I will like the music on Psychotic Symphony, I'm looking forward to it. When I heard Signs Of The Times I was very satysfied, solid modern riff, catchy chorus, some shredding, and I have to say that I enjoyed JSS singing. Like his voice since I heard Him with Yngwie. I have some good hopes that this will be a very good album. My second favourite bass player, Portnoy, Sherinian... I'm not familiar with Bumblefoot records, but he seems to be a great musician. All to sum it up, I'm waiting unpatiently for 20th October :)
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Architeuthis on September 27, 2017, 02:35:07 PM





As I said in the other thread before it got nuked,
  :rollin
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Podaar on September 27, 2017, 02:55:07 PM
If not, Nick will bash you with his extremely grotesquely large  fists.

 :lol
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ariich on September 27, 2017, 03:15:26 PM
But one has to wonder: what's the kind of audience of a band that has two ex members of Dream Theater?
I dunno, MP has done loads of non-prog stuff and JSS and BS are hardly "prog" guys (and arguably Bumblefoot isn't really either - experimental, certainly, but more in the hard rock genre). So in terms of people that might be checking the band out, it makes some sense.

Quote
As I said in the other thread before it got nuked, in this day and age you don't need to strictly adhere to the old "singles" rules. They can sure have a video for Coming Home, but they could as well do a lyric video of the opening 10 minutes track and post it a week or so before the release to spark the interest of those longing for more intricate pieces.
Indeed, I basically agree. I mean, Signs of the Time was proggier and longer, so the first release hinted at that sort of thing at least.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Orbert on September 27, 2017, 03:48:56 PM
I will check this out because it has Mike and Derek.  As many have already pointed out, the "hype" about the band/music doesn't seem to match the early singles, but we'll see.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ErHaO on September 27, 2017, 05:02:19 PM
I am enjoying both released tracks quite a bit and while think they are a talented bunch. Some akward tweets or wonky PR aren't going to ruin my fun. One of my most anticipated albums this year still. But I am not expecting midpoint career DT-esque progmetal at this point, outside of some elements, based on the material so far.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Sycsa on September 27, 2017, 05:49:51 PM
Damn, the other thread is closed? Hope you're not gonna close down the entire Forum.


On a serious note, I'm really looking forward to the album, I dig almost everything about it, even the more "controversial" aspects of it (straightforward songwriting, Billy's tone, singer's tone).

The only thing I'm not too hot about is Mike repeating the same old fills. Also, I hope that Derek will use more traditional, diverse, and organic keyboard sounds in the rest of the songs (Hammond, Moog), he's all up and about his "real, no cheese keys srsly," but he mostly uses the same old digital, plastic sounding lead he had for decades. 

The other day I was just about to buy the album on iTunes, but then I remembered how Derek and Mike acted lately, and just said "fuck it," and bought another album instead. All in all, still my most anticipated album of the year. edit: on second thought, maybe Icefish took that spot.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: erwinrafael on September 27, 2017, 05:53:42 PM
Disappointed with the singles so far because they are wasting Jeff Scott Soto's voice. He is not singing to his strengths. After Portnoy's criticisms of JLB and his fit with DT, I was hoping they would show how to write a song that fits JSS or to select a singer that fits the songs. It is not the case, so far.

My anticipation for this band is being tempered by my comparison with the teasers of another upcoming prog band, Icefish, and even by the better single released so far by JSS himself.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: TAC on September 27, 2017, 06:28:22 PM
Disappointed with the singles so far because they are wasting Jeff Scott Soto's voice. He is not singing to his strengths. After Portnoy's criticisms of JLB and his fit with DT, I was hoping they would show how to write a song that fits JSS or to select a singer that fits the songs. It is not the case, so far.


That's a real interesting comment. That's exactly how I felt about SC and BC&SL regarding James. Since MP left DT, James was again able to use his range, especially on The Astonishing. Not sure if it was directly related to MP's direction or simply a coincidence.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: gzarruk on September 27, 2017, 06:42:52 PM
Disappointed with the singles so far because they are wasting Jeff Scott Soto's voice. He is not singing to his strengths. After Portnoy's criticisms of JLB and his fit with DT, I was hoping they would show how to write a song that fits JSS or to select a singer that fits the songs. It is not the case, so far.


That's a real interesting comment. That's exactly how I felt about SC and BC&SL regarding James. Since MP left DT, James was again able to use his range, especially on The Astonishing. Not sure if it was directly related to MP's direction or simply a coincidence.

As someone commented on the previous thread, JSS and DS said they had strong disagreements over the vocal direction of the songs during the recording. It was Derek producing the vocal tracks, as MP was absent from the vocal recording sessions.

Anyway, I like JSS as a vocalist, but I don't think he's the best fit for this project, neither is Billy. But that's just my opinion, if it works for them, great.

About the singles, I liked Signs of the Time, specially the instrumental section. The other one, I listened to it once and didn't care for it at all, it's just not my cup of tea, same as with TWD.

Still want to listen to the rest of the album, specially the first track. Really want to get some good prog metal.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: TAC on September 27, 2017, 06:57:59 PM

As someone commented on the previous thread, JSS and DS said they had strong disagreements over the vocal direction of the songs during the recording. It was Derek producing the vocal tracks, as MP was absent from the vocal recording sessions.

I didn't read that. That is very interesting. Why bring a guy in and not utilize his talents?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Peace and Love on September 27, 2017, 07:09:58 PM
I'm sorta tired of seeing Billy in everything Mike does

I really don't understand this opinion - of actual bands that recorded original music, Winery Dogs is the only other MP band that Sheehan is a part of.

I get that he was in PSMS - which is just a live covers band - but still, even if you count that that's far from everything.

If you look at MP's albums of original music, Sheehan has only been on 2 Winery Dog albums. He wasn't in Flying Colours, Adrenaline Mob, Metal Allegiance, Neal Morse Band...
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: gzarruk on September 27, 2017, 07:15:13 PM

As someone commented on the previous thread, JSS and DS said they had strong disagreements over the vocal direction of the songs during the recording. It was Derek producing the vocal tracks, as MP was absent from the vocal recording sessions.

I didn't read that. That is very interesting. Why bring a guy in and not utilize his talents?

I think they talked about it on one of the band interviews Inside Out posted. Supposedly, things got very uncomfortable with them for a while, because Derek had a strong vision on where to go with the vocals and, apparently, Jeff wasn't too on board with that.


I'm sorta tired of seeing Billy in everything Mike does

I really don't understand this opinion - of actual bands that recorded original music, Winery Dogs is the only other MP band that Sheehan is a part of.

I get that he was in PSMS - which is just a live covers band - but still, even if you count that that's far from everything.

If you look at MP's albums of original music, Sheehan has only been on 2 Winery Dog albums. He wasn't in Flying Colours, Adrenaline Mob, Metal Allegiance, Neal Morse Band...

I think that the main issue here is that this is the third time Mike includes Billy on a project in just a few years, when there's a lot of other great bassists that would fit a "prog metal supergroup" much better.

Also, Billy's playing and tone are either love them or hate them, so I can see why people are tired of seeing him involved on recent MP projects, as it could turn some people off. His tone and overrall over thee top playing bother me, for example.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Ben_Jamin on September 27, 2017, 07:21:59 PM
Opus Maximus sounds intriguing, so does Figaro's Whore. Billy's bass tone and the mix doesn't help excite me much though. JSS i'm sure is way better, but from what was released it's alright. I will check this out once it's released.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Kwyjibo on September 27, 2017, 11:57:36 PM
The two released songs haven't really convinced me, but I will sure check this out when it's released.

And the double neck bass? Almost every drummer has a double bass drum, maybe Billy got envious and wanted something double too?

A double neck guitars/basses sure have their uses but they don't excatly look bad ass rock 'n' roll.  :biggrin:
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: The Silent Cody on September 28, 2017, 12:16:43 AM
When I'm thinking about two-neck guitars, only one Man appears in my mind :)
(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/bFB98nZZKIc/hqdefault.jpg)
I hope that we will hear more from those two Bumblefoot's necks on the rest of Psychotic Symphony.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: erwinrafael on September 28, 2017, 01:21:20 AM
Disappointed with the singles so far because they are wasting Jeff Scott Soto's voice. He is not singing to his strengths. After Portnoy's criticisms of JLB and his fit with DT, I was hoping they would show how to write a song that fits JSS or to select a singer that fits the songs. It is not the case, so far.


That's a real interesting comment. That's exactly how I felt about SC and BC&SL regarding James. Since MP left DT, James was again able to use his range, especially on The Astonishing. Not sure if it was directly related to MP's direction or simply a coincidence.

As someone commented on the previous thread, JSS and DS said they had strong disagreements over the vocal direction of the songs during the recording. It was Derek producing the vocal tracks, as MP was absent from the vocal recording sessions.

Anyway, I like JSS as a vocalist, but I don't think he's the best fit for this project, neither is Billy. But that's just my opinion, if it works for them, great.

JSS already lost his range because of age. His strength now is the "soul" in his voice, which gives it character and which made his vocals fit a lot of Journey songs before.

Some of the released singles for his upcoming solo album:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lGlcU-Jqsh4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yvA7OcCaWmE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1c8V7PeDNRQ

In Sons of Apollo, his vocals sound harsh. He tried this vocal style before with SOTO, but it did not really work.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Cruithne on September 28, 2017, 04:10:14 AM
When I'm thinking about two-neck guitars, only one Man appears in my mind :)

I always think it comes across as a bit of a cheap trick.

(https://www.premierguitar.com/ext/resources/archives/72f241ea-009c-46db-8f08-62da9879696a.JPG)

:natalieportman:

Still not as bad as keytars though.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: King Postwhore on September 28, 2017, 04:50:23 AM
But I've seen Rick use that guitar live and he played all 5 necks.  What's wrong with a little fun?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ReaperKK on September 28, 2017, 05:13:15 AM
I've listened to both songs and JSS is definitely the weakest link. I'm just not into his voice.

I'll check it out on release but I'm not expecting much.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: the keyboard wizard on September 28, 2017, 05:45:53 AM
To answer some questions that were asked in the previous thread:
the next song to be released is Lost in Oblivion...but it will be released on the 20th of October :D
Derek will use classic instruments especially his hammond organ. There's a song that was described as "Deep Purplesque" so you can imagine that it will be a B3 fest!
Stay tuned if you want a real description of the songs as, Your Majesty will publish the interview next week and we asked Derek and Mike to describe the album track by track :D
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bosk1 on September 28, 2017, 07:54:05 AM
Looking forwards to it, Keyboard Wiz.  Thanks for letting us know.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Samsara on September 28, 2017, 08:15:55 AM
I'm sorta tired of seeing Billy in everything Mike does

I really don't understand this opinion - of actual bands that recorded original music, Winery Dogs is the only other MP band that Sheehan is a part of.

I get that he was in PSMS - which is just a live covers band - but still, even if you count that that's far from everything.

If you look at MP's albums of original music, Sheehan has only been on 2 Winery Dog albums. He wasn't in Flying Colours, Adrenaline Mob, Metal Allegiance, Neal Morse Band...

As someone else guessed correctly, I was more referring to how much Sheehan is with Portnoy recently. He's now in three bands with him in the last handful of years. Don't get me wrong, I love Billy Sheehan. Big fan of his starting with Mr. Big (which is the first time I heard him). But it's like he's MP's go-to bassist, and I wish he would have went elsewhere this time, that's all. I am sure his playing will be phenomenal as always.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: RodrigoAltaf on September 28, 2017, 09:10:10 AM
I for one am quite excited about this release. Have you noticed how MP avoided FII tracks in The Shattered Fortress shows? I'm sure he'll bring some of them back with SOA.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bosk1 on September 28, 2017, 09:12:50 AM
Have you noticed how MP avoided FII tracks in The Shattered Fortress shows? I'm sure he'll bring some of them back with SOA.

I don't think SOA had anything to do with why they didn't play any FII tracks at the Shattered Fortress shows.  Mike only chose songs he wrote the lyrics for.  I think he knows there isn't a high demand for New Millenium, Just Let Me Breathe, or Burning My Soul.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: the keyboard wizard on September 28, 2017, 09:17:12 AM
I for one am quite excited about this release. Have you noticed how MP avoided FII tracks in The Shattered Fortress shows? I'm sure he'll bring some of them back with SOA.
You'll get the answer next week ;)
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Nick on September 28, 2017, 09:21:04 AM
I for one am quite excited about this release. Have you noticed how MP avoided FII tracks in The Shattered Fortress shows? I'm sure he'll bring some of them back with SOA.

Aside from the songs you know he was playing as part of the main feature you can say he avoided every album except Scenes and Awake. First SoA tour I would have to expect similar to the first Flying Colors or Transatlantic tour. Basically all their original material and a cover from each of their most well known bands.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: axeman90210 on September 28, 2017, 10:05:01 AM
Would not mind seeing this band have some fun with a Mr. Big tune.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: RodrigoAltaf on September 28, 2017, 10:24:27 AM
Would not mind seeing this band have some fun with a Mr. Big tune.

Addicted to that Rush!!!
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Samsara on September 28, 2017, 10:43:31 AM
My guess is, after Portnoy's comments about Shattered Fortress being the last time he'd do DT, that Sons of Apollo will likely only do their own material, and covers perhaps from bands not associated with them. While that is a bummer to a degree, if that is indeed what happens, it makes sense to me. They are trying to forge a new identity entirely. So, it makes sense NOT to play stuff from their other bands.

I imagine Sons of Apollo would probably do their entire record in a headline set, and then maybe something from Deep Purple, or something along those lines.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: axeman90210 on September 28, 2017, 10:47:50 AM
I could see that as well, maybe instead of each member doing a song from their past each one picks a song that was influential for them or something.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Ben_Jamin on September 28, 2017, 10:49:56 AM
Have you noticed how MP avoided FII tracks in The Shattered Fortress shows? I'm sure he'll bring some of them back with SOA.

I don't think SOA had anything to do with why they didn't play any FII tracks at the Shattered Fortress shows.  Mike only chose songs he wrote the lyrics for.  I think he knows there isn't a high demand for New Millenium, Just Let Me Breathe, or Burning My Soul.

I could see them playing those songs live.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bill1971 on September 28, 2017, 10:58:43 AM
My guess is, after Portnoy's comments about Shattered Fortress being the last time he'd do DT, that Sons of Apollo will likely only do their own material, and covers perhaps from bands not associated with them. While that is a bummer to a degree, if that is indeed what happens, it makes sense to me. They are trying to forge a new identity entirely. So, it makes sense NOT to play stuff from their other bands.

I imagine Sons of Apollo would probably do their entire record in a headline set, and then maybe something from Deep Purple, or something along those lines.

I took MP as meaning a headlining show of all DT tunes, not that he will never play DT tunes again. Unless I missed a quote.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Adami on September 28, 2017, 10:59:57 AM
I could see that as well, maybe instead of each member doing a song from their past each one picks a song that was influential for them or something.

That would be awesome. Hopefully it won't be the prog standards, but some more fun songs. I like when SoA were covering VH and stuff at their first show.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Stadler on September 28, 2017, 11:47:22 AM
Any time I see multiple necks/unnecessary things it just brings me back to the Rhapsody - Unholy Warcry video with the keyboardist standing behind 6 keyboards in the grass not even plugged into anything. It's silly, but if that's Billy's thing to have two necks, his call.  :lol

Or every picture of Rick Wakeman from 1974 through 1986.  :)
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: The Walrus on September 28, 2017, 11:54:59 AM
Any time I see multiple necks/unnecessary things it just brings me back to the Rhapsody - Unholy Warcry video with the keyboardist standing behind 6 keyboards in the grass not even plugged into anything. It's silly, but if that's Billy's thing to have two necks, his call.  :lol

Or every picture of Rick Wakeman from 1974 through 1986.  :)

Me not being big on Rick's bands - here's ample time to let everyone be aghast - I had to go with a somewhat more obscure reference, but yes, that is spot on  :lol
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ozzy554 on September 28, 2017, 12:25:10 PM
JSS still has a damn good range for his age.....when he decides to show it.

The man can still belt out a pretty good version of Ill see the light tonight.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bosk1 on September 29, 2017, 12:32:11 PM
A reminder:  This thread is for discussion of SoA.  That may include discussion of what Mike, Derek, and others are saying about the project and how they are promoting it, including respectful critique, if applicable and if you feel the need.  However, forum rules still apply in full force.  As stated in the original post in the thread:

2. You can constructively critique anything you want, but outright bashing or personal attacks on Portnoy or Sherinian (or the other members) will not be tolerated.

A lot of what was posted in the last couple of pages crossed the line, and what arguably didn't came close enough.  Those posts have been deleted.  Posts that come across as mocking the band or its members reflect poorly on the forum and will not be allowed.  This is a general warning.  Those that persist will be banned without further warning.  Keep it respectful.  If you can't, keep your thoughts to yourself.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: JayOctavarium on September 29, 2017, 12:33:52 PM
Even after everything, I am still looking forward to this release.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: SwedishGoose on September 29, 2017, 12:40:44 PM
Even after everything, I am still looking forward to this release.

Not really looking forward to it at this point in time but will give it a spin on Spotify and if I like what I hear I will buy it despite all the hoopla.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: JayOctavarium on September 29, 2017, 12:44:51 PM
Even after everything, I am still looking forward to this release.

Not really looking forward to it at this point in time but will give it a spin on Spotify and if I like what I hear I will buy it despite all the hoopla.


I am a huge fan of Derek and Mike musically, and Bumblefoot is pretty cool. I'm not going to go out of my way to buy it, but if I can listen to it on Google Music, I'll do so.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Skeever on September 29, 2017, 01:09:34 PM
Even after everything, I am still looking forward to this release.

Not really looking forward to it at this point in time but will give it a spin on Spotify and if I like what I hear I will buy it despite all the hoopla.

I never buy music anymore, but yeah, I'll listen on Spotify when the time comes, and go see the show if I like the album.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: JayOctavarium on September 29, 2017, 01:13:41 PM
Even after everything, I am still looking forward to this release.

Not really looking forward to it at this point in time but will give it a spin on Spotify and if I like what I hear I will buy it despite all the hoopla.

I never buy music anymore, but yeah, I'll listen on Spotify when the time comes, and go see the show if I like the album.


Seems like the only physical albums I buy now are Dream Theater and JLB solo albums. I can't remember the last time I bought a CD that wasn't those. 

Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: gmillerdrake on September 29, 2017, 01:18:54 PM
Seems like the only physical albums I buy now are Dream Theater and JLB solo albums. I can't remember the last time I bought a CD that wasn't those.

Dream Theater and Neal Morse. Only physical copies I still buy. Everything else is obtained through my $9.99 monthly Apple subscription. On occasion there are artists that haven't agreed to whatever terms are in place and aren't on there so I can't find them to hear them....but there are SO many good bands that are on there it really doesn't break my heart when those occasions. arise.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: portnoy311 on September 29, 2017, 03:02:45 PM
Not to go down this rabbit hole, but I still buy CDs of my favorite bands. Pink Floyd (David Gilmour), Mastodon, Pearl Jam, AiC, Brad Mehldau, Joshua Redman, BtBaM, Insomnium, and a few others all get physical purchases from me.


Sadly, SoA will not.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: SwedishGoose on September 29, 2017, 03:07:14 PM
Any CD that I feel will get repeat listens will get bought.... right now I do not think I will listen to SoA more than once or twice.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ProfessorPeart on September 29, 2017, 03:20:17 PM
Saw an interesting comment from someone on Blabbermouth under a story about the Galactic Cowboys. They said Cowboys / SOA 2018 tour. Never occurred to me, but I can absolutely see MP taking these guys back out with him. Could be a double headline since SOA only has one album of material.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: portnoy311 on September 29, 2017, 03:33:20 PM
Saw an interesting comment from someone on Blabbermouth under a story about the Galactic Cowboys. They said Cowboys / SOA 2018 tour. Never occurred to me, but I can absolutely see MP taking these guys back out with him. Could be a double headline since SOA only has one album of material.

For better or worse, MP has never been shy about playing covers. Just look at the introductory concert of Sons of Anarchy. In between calls of history being made were a long string of Van Halen and other modern relevant covers. I could see him calling for a headline gig for the new kings of prog, peppered with tons of cover tunes.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Dave_Manchester on September 29, 2017, 03:38:44 PM
Saw an interesting comment from someone on Blabbermouth under a story about the Galactic Cowboys. They said Cowboys / SOA 2018 tour. Never occurred to me, but I can absolutely see MP taking these guys back out with him. Could be a double headline since SOA only has one album of material.

Just look at the introductory concert of Sons of Anarchy.

I still make this mistake too ;)
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bill1971 on September 29, 2017, 03:46:47 PM
I think the last CD I bought was The Astonishing. I usually just buy music through Amazon music that way it winds up right on my phone where I listen to it anyhow.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Peace and Love on September 29, 2017, 04:08:27 PM
I watched DS and MP talking about Signs of the Time (the only song I've heard and the only song I will hear) on Youtube, and it struck me that the genuinely seem passionate proud of the music, which I give them credit for.

Also I realized that they said JSS sounds likes "Kansas with balls", but I actually prefer the original Kansas without balls, and that Bumblefoot sounds like "Allan Holdsworth on steroids", but I actually like the original Allan Holdsworth without performance enhancement better.

One of my main issues with the song is the main riff itself - it's just not strong enough to build a song around. The kind of riff James Hetfield wouldn't even consider worthy of being used under a guitar solo in a B-side.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: portnoy311 on September 29, 2017, 04:13:11 PM
Saw an interesting comment from someone on Blabbermouth under a story about the Galactic Cowboys. They said Cowboys / SOA 2018 tour. Never occurred to me, but I can absolutely see MP taking these guys back out with him. Could be a double headline since SOA only has one album of material.

Just look at the introductory concert of Sons of Anarchy.

I still make this mistake too ;)


Lol, I had to read your comment and my quote twice to realize what was even wrong.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: nobloodyname on September 29, 2017, 04:20:22 PM
Also I realized that they said JSS sounds likes "Kansas with balls", but I actually prefer the original Kansas without balls, and that Bumblefoot sounds like "Allan Holdsworth on steroids", but I actually like the original Allan Holdsworth without performance enhancement better.

And that's okay. You can go and listen to Kansas. Or Allan Holdsworth. Some people wouldn't listen to either, but may enjoy their apparent influence on Sons of Apollo's music.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bill1971 on September 29, 2017, 04:57:01 PM
I watched DS and MP talking about Signs of the Time (the only song I've heard and the only song I will hear) on Youtube, and it struck me that the genuinely seem passionate proud of the music, which I give them credit for.

Also I realized that they said JSS sounds likes "Kansas with balls", but I actually prefer the original Kansas without balls, and that Bumblefoot sounds like "Allan Holdsworth on steroids", but I actually like the original Allan Holdsworth without performance enhancement better.

One of my main issues with the song is the main riff itself - it's just not strong enough to build a song around. The kind of riff James Hetfield wouldn't even consider worthy of being used under a guitar solo in a B-side.

Personally I like my Yes on HGH and Pink Floyd on Amphetamines
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: portnoy311 on September 29, 2017, 05:07:53 PM
Not to pile on, but the "... with balls" remark just kinda rubs me the wrong way, which is something I haven't been able to put my finger on before. They're marketing this as a super macho manly prog metal band. Kansas with balls! No anus puckering screams! We have metal swagger! It just strikes me all as lame and hell, and not even true. Their bassist is 64 years old, and has never been considered a metal artist. They're rocking double keyboards, double necked guitars, and a double necked bass with 4 strings on both. They're so overly worried about image they can't decide if they want to be the "more is more" prog wankfest band (which is fine), or the tough guy metal band that is taking cues from Anselmo. It's the same issue Adrenaline Mob fell into. Russ made his name singing about prophets and sages. MP didn't start getting full sleeve tats and dying his goatee (don't get me started) well into his 40s. Singing about knocking about wannabes (in AMob's case), and buying into a machismo version of progressive giants (SoA) is such a misguided poor attempt at credibility. It's like they're trying way too hard to maintain a trumped up and false image when it's all transparent and belies the actual music they're putting out. Over the top machismo from musicians who are trying to push their 'virtuosity' in a genre such as this just screams of ... well... I don't need to finish that sentence. That's probably my biggest turn off of this band, other than the actual songs.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Skeever on September 29, 2017, 05:21:13 PM
Not to pile on, but the "... with balls" remark just kinda rubs me the wrong way, which is something I haven't been able to put my finger on before. They're marketing this as a super macho manly prog metal band. Kansas with balls! No anus puckering screams! We have metal swagger! It just strikes me all as lame and hell, and not even true. Their bassist is 64 years old, and has never been considered a metal artist. They're rocking double keyboards, double necked guitars, and a double necked bass with 4 strings on both. They're so overly worried about image they can't decide if they want to be the "more is more" prog wankfest band (which is fine), or the tough guy metal band that is taking cues from Anselmo. It's the same issue Adrenaline Mob fell into. Russ made his name singing about prophets and sages. MP didn't start getting full sleeve tats and dying his goatee (don't get me started) well into his 40s. Singing about knocking about wannabes (in AMob's case), and buying into a machismo version of progressive giants (SoA) is such a misguided poor attempt at credibility. It's like they're trying way too hard to maintain a trumped up and false image when it's all transparent and belies the actual music they're putting out. Over the top machismo from musicians who are trying to push their 'virtuosity' in a genre such as this just screams of ... well... I don't need to finish that sentence. That's probably my biggest turn off of this band, other than the actual songs.

This is essentially an aftertaste of every MP album since DT went ahead and did ToT.
What can you say, the man loves ass and balls.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: devieira73 on September 29, 2017, 05:48:51 PM
https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=Jxfm8dUPazg
MP sign of times drum cam
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ReaperKK on September 29, 2017, 06:36:49 PM
Pretty cool :tup

I always enjoyed watching MP's drum cam videos
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Peace and Love on September 29, 2017, 06:54:58 PM
https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=Jxfm8dUPazg
MP sign of times drum cam

That was great! MP is awesome to watch, no matter what I think of the song. Hell, I even like watching his Adrenaline Mob drum cam videos.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bill1971 on September 29, 2017, 07:27:29 PM
That's the part of MP I really like the drum cams. Really fun to watch.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: devieira73 on September 29, 2017, 07:49:43 PM
Interesting to note that Jeff don't sing alone almost the entire song.
Also interesting to note, despite the double necks guitars and bass, the multiple keyboards, MP didn't use a siamese drum kit ;D
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: mikeyd23 on September 29, 2017, 08:02:27 PM
https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=Jxfm8dUPazg
MP sign of times drum cam

Good stuff, MP is always a joy to watch work regardless of the band or the drama. Also, and I’ve said this before, these drum cam videos are such a great idea. Throw a couple video cameras up in the studio and edit the thing together. You’ve got a super easy to make product his die hards will buy every time. No clue why MM hasn’t done this with DT stuff yet, could potentially be a nice little amount of bonus money around an album release.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Adami on September 29, 2017, 08:18:48 PM
I do love those videos of him drumming. Even if he's not doing anything mind blowing or pushing the genre forward, he's always inspirational to me as a drummer.



SEE STADLER?!?!
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: mikeyd23 on September 29, 2017, 08:20:37 PM

SEE STADLER?!?!

 :lol
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Zook on September 29, 2017, 08:24:00 PM
God of the Sun isn't bad at all... Or so I've heard.


Would be better with Russell Allen.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Herrick on September 29, 2017, 08:36:09 PM
https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=Jxfm8dUPazg
MP sign of times drum cam

Cool thanks for posting that, devieira73   :metal
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: PepeLePew on September 30, 2017, 08:27:58 AM
The video fulfilled its purpose (at least for me) - my excitement for the album is re-ignited! Just love to see MP play!  :metal
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: gzarruk on September 30, 2017, 08:38:52 AM
Great video, indeed! I just don't understand why he has to include his vocal recording shots on his DRUM CAM videos :lol
But, anyway, I liked the video, please don't take this as more MP criticism.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: SjundeInseglet on September 30, 2017, 09:01:26 AM

This is essentially an aftertaste of every MP album since DT went ahead and did ToT.
What can you say, the man loves ass and balls.

I don't think that applies to Flying Colors or the Neal Morse Band at all. Not even by a longshot.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Lethean on September 30, 2017, 12:30:25 PM
Here's a new interview with Mike:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=26&v=h5rBPxl-UMc
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: rumborak on September 30, 2017, 12:51:39 PM
I may, or may not, have heard the album in its entirety, but let me just write down the following words: "Accidental Karate Kid credits"
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Sycsa on September 30, 2017, 12:57:10 PM
-
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Anguyen92 on September 30, 2017, 12:58:25 PM
I may, or may not, have heard the album in its entirety, but let me just write down the following words: "Accidental Karate Kid credits"

I was hoping you would say something along the lines of "You're The Best!"  I would be legitimately more pumped for the album if the songs would be somewhere along the lines of that.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: rumborak on September 30, 2017, 01:05:13 PM
Well ... the album just went up a notch for you. :lol
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: King Postwhore on September 30, 2017, 01:08:37 PM
Well ... the album just went up a notch for you. :lol

Nothing's gonna ever keep Anguyen92 down......
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Anguyen92 on September 30, 2017, 01:14:39 PM
Well ... the album just went up a notch for you. :lol

I was only partially kidding on that one, but all right.  I'll just give it the old listen through Spotify when it comes out and determine whether or not I probably would hear more songs on repeat or not.

I mean the singles are all right, but I don't know if I want to listen to those more often.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Schurftkut on September 30, 2017, 02:02:55 PM
ok so after hearing the first few tracks of this album i'm not too warm about it, but looking forward to seeing/hearing this being performed live with a band who aren't statues like DT nowadays. The music is definitely proggy and virtuosic in a lot of places. Many melodic riffs and kind of "safe" vocals that do work well with the songs.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Adami on September 30, 2017, 02:08:07 PM
Based solely off what I’ve read and the two released songs, are we all equating elongated soloish sections with prog now? So if I hear a song is prog on the album, I can assume it has a few longer solos and standard MP style instrumental stuff?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Schurftkut on September 30, 2017, 02:11:42 PM
avant-garde flashy 80s rock/metal with a modern production would describe this band better.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ytserush on September 30, 2017, 02:13:56 PM


Not to pile on, but the "... with balls" remark just kinda rubs me the wrong way, which is something I haven't been able to put my finger on before. They're marketing this as a super macho manly prog metal band. Kansas with balls! No anus puckering screams! We have metal swagger! It just strikes me all as lame and hell, and not even true. Their bassist is 64 years old, and has never been considered a metal artist. They're rocking double keyboards, double necked guitars, and a double necked bass with 4 strings on both. They're so overly worried about image they can't decide if they want to be the "more is more" prog wankfest band (which is fine), or the tough guy metal band that is taking cues from Anselmo. It's the same issue Adrenaline Mob fell into. Russ made his name singing about prophets and sages. MP didn't start getting full sleeve tats and dying his goatee (don't get me started) well into his 40s. Singing about knocking about wannabes (in AMob's case), and buying into a machismo version of progressive giants (SoA) is such a misguided poor attempt at credibility. It's like they're trying way too hard to maintain a trumped up and false image when it's all transparent and belies the actual music they're putting out. Over the top machismo from musicians who are trying to push their 'virtuosity' in a genre such as this just screams of ... well... I don't need to finish that sentence. That's probably my biggest turn off of this band, other than the actual songs.

Perhaps "rock and roll swagger" is not what you're looking for?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ytserush on September 30, 2017, 02:16:02 PM
avant-garde flashy 80s rock/metal with a modern production would describe this band better.

There's nothing avant-garde about this band.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Schurftkut on September 30, 2017, 02:21:24 PM
it's intentionally disjointed at times? ;) :P
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ytserush on September 30, 2017, 02:34:45 PM
it's intentionally disjointed at times? ;) :P

I'm sure it's that, but I've not heard anything yet.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Schurftkut on September 30, 2017, 02:46:43 PM
like someone said, it's out there now. i couldn't finish the last track though.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Peace and Love on September 30, 2017, 03:25:39 PM
Here's a new interview with Mike:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=26&v=h5rBPxl-UMc

Thanks, that was a nice interview.

A genuine question: can anyone think of any examples of genuine bands (not solo projects) where one band member is so vocal and public about being the "leader"? The nearest to it I can think of is Steven Wilson, he definitely looked upon himself as the leader of PT - and eventually decided to break it up and go solo because he couldn't get the others to conform to his broad taste in styles of music.

Just curious - don't mean for this to be an invitation to yet another MP-bashing session. But MP's insistence on being known as the leader, the man in charge, etc. for a band where he clearly doesn't write most of the music (arrangements, sure) struck me as quite unusual.

...maybe Noel Gallagher in the case of Oasis?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ReaperKK on September 30, 2017, 03:29:09 PM
Are we holding off to discuss the album until it releases in case of leak?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Adami on September 30, 2017, 03:32:41 PM
A genuine question: can anyone think of any examples of genuine bands (not solo projects) where one band member is so vocal and public about being the "leader"?

Iced Earth
Stratovarius (before he left)
Nightwish
Opeth
Megadeth
Evanescence


That's just off the top of my head and not nearly complete.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: MirrorMask on September 30, 2017, 03:33:30 PM
Are we holding off to discuss the album until it releases in case of leak?

Well, I suppose it's common courtesy and netiquette, downloading albums and discussing them before the release date should be seen as masturbation - everyone's doing it, but it's not nice to talk about it openly.


And about MP being "known" as the leader... I think this comes more from his recent past. He was burned out in overseeing everything in DT, he was "just the drummer" with many projects, and now he's back to directing things. I assume it's more of an information for his longtime fans rather than a sudden burst of ego.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Peace and Love on September 30, 2017, 03:38:56 PM
A genuine question: can anyone think of any examples of genuine bands (not solo projects) where one band member is so vocal and public about being the "leader"?

Iced Earth
Stratovarius (before he left)
Nightwish
Opeth
Megadeth
Evanescence


That's just off the top of my head and not nearly complete.

Slightly embarassed to admit that I don't listen to any of those bands except Megadeth...

But that's a great example! Mustaine is definitely the uncontested leader of that band and makes it known to all. Good call!
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Sycsa on September 30, 2017, 03:40:57 PM
Quote
2b. With regard to "leaked" material, you are not allowed to discuss the leaking or sharing of an album by any artist, or that an album has leaked. In addition to the above, with regard to Dream Theater and side-projects by the members of Dream Theater, you may not discuss the leaked material whatsoever.  For other bands, you can in most cases discuss the content of the leaked material as long as you do not reference the leak, where you obtained the material, or sharing the leaked material.
I don't know how to interpret this tbh. If it were just the first paragraph, it'd be straightforward, no leak discussion at all. But then the last paragraph muddles up the situation. For all intents and purposes, it's not possible to discuss the content of leaked material without at least indirectly referencing the leak itself, since it is known that the given album hasn't yet been released at that point. That's the definition of "leak," piracy before release. This seems like a paradoxical rule.   
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: faizoff on September 30, 2017, 03:46:30 PM
Mike's answered a bunch of SoA q's on his twitter right now, of course, I took the chance to ask him about the new Blade Runner movie instead. :biggrin:
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: KevShmev on September 30, 2017, 04:02:18 PM


A genuine question: can anyone think of any examples of genuine bands (not solo projects) where one band member is so vocal and public about being the "leader"? The nearest to it I can think of is Steven Wilson, he definitely looked upon himself as the leader of PT - and eventually decided to break it up and go solo because he couldn't get the others to conform to his broad taste in styles of music.

Just curious - don't mean for this to be an invitation to yet another MP-bashing session. But MP's insistence on being known as the leader, the man in charge, etc. for a band where he clearly doesn't write most of the music (arrangements, sure) struck me as quite unusual.

...maybe Noel Gallagher in the case of Oasis?

I don't even think Steven Wilson is a good example, since he was never so brash as to publicly declare, "I am the leader! I run this band! I am in charge!"

And about MP being "known" as the leader... I think this comes more from his recent past. He was burned out in overseeing everything in DT, he was "just the drummer" with many projects, and now he's back to directing things. I assume it's more of an information for his longtime fans rather than a sudden burst of ego.

I don't think this alleged burst of ego would be sudden. :lol :lol

Let's face it, I don't think there is a bigger Mike Portnoy fan on the planet than Mike Portnoy himself.

Mike's answered a bunch of SoA q's on his twitter right now, of course, I took the chance to ask him about the new Blade Runner movie instead. :biggrin:

It's cool that he does that, but it's always amazing to me the unimaginative questions fans ask. :lol :lol

Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: noxon on September 30, 2017, 04:04:06 PM
https://dreamtheater.club/blog/2017/09/30/sons-of-apollo-psychotic-symphony/
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: nobloodyname on September 30, 2017, 04:21:22 PM
https://dreamtheater.club/blog/2017/09/30/sons-of-apollo-psychotic-symphony/

Good read (nice apostrophe abuse here and there :biggrin:), thank you for writing and sharing. I broadly agree with your opinion on each song. God of the Sun is my personal highlight. I just wish the album contained more songs like it.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: SystematicThought on September 30, 2017, 04:25:29 PM
It's cool that he does that, but it's always amazing to me the unimaginative questions fans ask. :lol :lol
And he usually always answers those ones too and doesn't answer interesting ones
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: nobloodyname on September 30, 2017, 04:27:58 PM
Edit: Never mind.

(Can't work out how to delete a post.)
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: RodrigoAltaf on September 30, 2017, 04:29:35 PM
Boy, how times have changed here in DTF...in 2015 I posted in the Maiden thread the following: "the album has leaked", referring to The Book of Souls. I was banned for 90 days just for that!!!
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Sycsa on September 30, 2017, 04:45:55 PM
Boy, how times have changed here in DTF...in 2015 I posted in the Maiden thread the following: "the album has leaked", referring to The Book of Souls. I was banned for 90 days just for that!!!
I don't think that this is the case, probably the mods just haven't been here yet. It's Saturday, they're out with the family enjoying a quiet little picnic.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: faizoff on September 30, 2017, 04:54:57 PM
I could be wrong but all the people talking about the album are most likely reviewers and were given the album by the label. Don't think there's a review embargo either since MP himself has been tweeting them out.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Madman Shepherd on September 30, 2017, 05:22:55 PM
Here's a new interview with Mike:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=26&v=h5rBPxl-UMc

Thanks, that was a nice interview.

A genuine question: can anyone think of any examples of genuine bands (not solo projects) where one band member is so vocal and public about being the "leader"? The nearest to it I can think of is Steven Wilson, he definitely looked upon himself as the leader of PT - and eventually decided to break it up and go solo because he couldn't get the others to conform to his broad taste in styles of music.

Just curious - don't mean for this to be an invitation to yet another MP-bashing session. But MP's insistence on being known as the leader, the man in charge, etc. for a band where he clearly doesn't write most of the music (arrangements, sure) struck me as quite unusual.

...maybe Noel Gallagher in the case of Oasis?

I thought it was interesting that he broke down just how exactly he was the leader and it still doesn't seem like he really does that much more than the other guys.  Just that he gets final say?
A genuine question: can anyone think of any examples of genuine bands (not solo projects) where one band member is so vocal and public about being the "leader"?

Iced Earth
Stratovarius (before he left)
Nightwish
Opeth
Megadeth
Evanescence


That's just off the top of my head and not nearly complete.

I don't know about most of those but with Megadeth, Dave has been the only consistent member and owns the name.

In Iced Earth, Jon is the only original member and owns the name.

Not great examples. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Adami on September 30, 2017, 05:33:35 PM
He asked for examples of bands with decisive leaders. My examples are of that. Even if they don’t match up with SoA.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: RodrigoAltaf on September 30, 2017, 05:40:46 PM
Dire Straits are an example of that.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ReaperKK on September 30, 2017, 05:51:55 PM
Completely agree on the Dire Straits comment.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: The Walrus on September 30, 2017, 06:34:02 PM
Adami offered great examples. Not sure how those are bad at all. They're spot on, especially Iced Earth and Strato. Jon Schaffer and Timo Tolkki basically commanded the lyrical and musical composition of their respective bands. Tuomas steers the ship in Nightwish. Tony Kakko in Sonata Arctica is another one, he writes almost every bit of the music and all the lyrics.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Adami on September 30, 2017, 06:38:20 PM
How did I forget my favorite band? Pain of Salvation!
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Madman Shepherd on September 30, 2017, 06:42:27 PM
Adami offered great examples. Not sure how those are bad at all. They're spot on, especially Iced Earth and Strato.

People have also called Iced Earth a solo project.  Not trying to parse words but Jon has been the only original member since the late 90s.  Of course he is the band leader.  As for whether he called himself the band leader in the early 90s when there were still some original members, I don't know. 

Peace and Love brought up an interesting thought.  I personally would like to know if there are any other bands with original members who has a member who may not be the main song writer that insists on being referred to as the band leader. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Zook on September 30, 2017, 06:57:18 PM
The bass sounds like the snarling pig. Kinda weird.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: faizoff on September 30, 2017, 07:06:50 PM


A genuine question: can anyone think of any examples of genuine bands (not solo projects) where one band member is so vocal and public about being the "leader"? The nearest to it I can think of is Steven Wilson, he definitely looked upon himself as the leader of PT - and eventually decided to break it up and go solo because he couldn't get the others to conform to his broad taste in styles of music.



Do you have a article or interview sources for this? I always remembered that Steven Wilson just wanted to experiment with different styles of music outside of what Porcupine Tree had become and he ended up liking that direction quite a bit and then stayed on that path. I don't ever remember hearing/reading the other band members were told to conform and they disagreed which is why PT is no more.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: The Walrus on September 30, 2017, 07:07:28 PM
Adami offered great examples. Not sure how those are bad at all. They're spot on, especially Iced Earth and Strato.

People have also called Iced Earth a solo project.  Not trying to parse words but Jon has been the only original member since the late 90s.  Of course he is the band leader.  As for whether he called himself the band leader in the early 90s when there were still some original members, I don't know. 

True. I have nothing to back that up either, other than Sons of Liberty being the 'true' solo project rather than IE (although for all intents and purposes they might as well be the same outfit). I just took a few glances back over the early albums' writing credits and even then he dominated the song credits, so I suppose he was the de facto leader even then :)
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Peace and Love on September 30, 2017, 07:19:50 PM


A genuine question: can anyone think of any examples of genuine bands (not solo projects) where one band member is so vocal and public about being the "leader"? The nearest to it I can think of is Steven Wilson, he definitely looked upon himself as the leader of PT - and eventually decided to break it up and go solo because he couldn't get the others to conform to his broad taste in styles of music.





Do you have a article or interview sources for this? I always remembered that Steven Wilson just wanted to experiment with different styles of music outside of what Porcupine Tree had become and he ended up liking that direction quite a bit and then stayed on that path. I don't ever remember hearing/reading the other band members were told to conform and they disagreed which is why PT is no more.

https://www.ultimate-guitar.com/news/general_music_news/steven_wilson_why_i_ended_porcupine_tree.html
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Madman Shepherd on September 30, 2017, 07:34:39 PM
Adami offered great examples. Not sure how those are bad at all. They're spot on, especially Iced Earth and Strato.

People have also called Iced Earth a solo project.  Not trying to parse words but Jon has been the only original member since the late 90s.  Of course he is the band leader.  As for whether he called himself the band leader in the early 90s when there were still some original members, I don't know. 

True. I have nothing to back that up either, other than Sons of Liberty being the 'true' solo project rather than IE (although for all intents and purposes they might as well be the same outfit). I just took a few glances back over the early albums' writing credits and even then he dominated the song credits, so I suppose he was the de facto leader even then :)

...and Dave Mustaine dominated the writing of Megadeth since the beginning but I don't know if he ever was vocal about being the band leader.  De facto leader, sure.  Proclaimed?  Not so sure. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Adami on September 30, 2017, 07:43:55 PM
So it's gone from bands that have had a decisive leader, to bands with all original members who have a non-writing musician in the band that has publicly proclaimed himself to be the leader?

I'll admit I don't have much for that.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: faizoff on September 30, 2017, 07:44:59 PM


A genuine question: can anyone think of any examples of genuine bands (not solo projects) where one band member is so vocal and public about being the "leader"? The nearest to it I can think of is Steven Wilson, he definitely looked upon himself as the leader of PT - and eventually decided to break it up and go solo because he couldn't get the others to conform to his broad taste in styles of music.





Do you have a article or interview sources for this? I always remembered that Steven Wilson just wanted to experiment with different styles of music outside of what Porcupine Tree had become and he ended up liking that direction quite a bit and then stayed on that path. I don't ever remember hearing/reading the other band members were told to conform and they disagreed which is why PT is no more.

https://www.ultimate-guitar.com/news/general_music_news/steven_wilson_why_i_ended_porcupine_tree.html

Thanks for that! so weird I never came across that interview before. It's a shame, all this time I've been thinking that they were on a really extended hiatus with a possibility of coming back much later once SW has had his fill of exploring other musical directions.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Adami on September 30, 2017, 07:56:15 PM
Anyone else notice that Derek looks a whole lot like a slightly younger Paul Stanley?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ReaperKK on September 30, 2017, 08:39:48 PM
Yes, I thought a much tanner younger Paul Stanley.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Madman Shepherd on September 30, 2017, 08:53:26 PM
So it's gone from bands that have had a decisive leader, to bands with all original members who have a non-writing musician in the band that has publicly proclaimed himself to be the leader?

I'll admit I don't have much for that.

I would even settle for *some* original members. 

Not trying to nitpick but I do think this situation is a tad unusual. 

Tony Iommi is an interesting case.  He was the band leader in many ways but I don't think he ever called himself that.  He handled a lot of the business and even when they first started he was the one that got them to dedicate themselves to rehearsal and would borrow his dad's van to haul them around.  When Ozzy was fired and Bill quit responsibilities were more evenly divided now that Dio was writing songs and lyrics but Geezer and Tony still owned the name.  Once Geezer quit and he was the sole owner, he was clearly the leader. 

Just haven't seen it done the way SoA is doing it. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Adami on September 30, 2017, 08:58:32 PM
But it's hard to compare SoA to long running bands and their members because SoA doesn't even have their first album out yet and have only played one show, kind of.

If it 10 years or whatever, they have the same members and MP is still the leader, then we can talk.

Also, DS seems to be just as much the leader in this band as MP. If not more so.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Madman Shepherd on September 30, 2017, 09:16:22 PM
But it's hard to compare SoA to long running bands and their members because SoA doesn't even have their first album out yet and have only played one show, kind of.

If it 10 years or whatever, they have the same members and MP is still the leader, then we can talk.

Also, DS seems to be just as much the leader in this band as MP. If not more so.

This is my point though.  Over time I think it is more natural for one person to take on a leadership role.  But also, like you said, Derek seems to lead just as much if not more so it is a tad unusual for someone to say they are a leader. 

So far Derek and Mike started the band but Mike picked the other members.  Derek and Mike and Bumblefoot wrote most of the music although Derek and Bumble look like the main songwriters.  It looks like Jeff wrote most of the lyrics.   Mike had the name Apollo floating around but Derek added "Sons of".  They both produced it although Derek was more involved when it came to recording the vocals.  The album name came from one of Jeff's lyrics.  They haven't mentioned whose idea it was for the album cover.  We have no setlists which I'm sure would be mostly Mike's call but I doubt he would ignore any input from band members. 

So at the very least I would say Derek and Mike are the band leaders.  In the most recent interview he said when it comes to production they are more 50/50.  I just don't see what else Mike does that would make him more of a band leader than Derek. 

Honest theories welcome.  Are there some extra responsibilities I'm missing?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Adami on September 30, 2017, 09:22:55 PM
Yea, I don't see MP as being a big leader in this.

Thought he wasn't the leader of DT either. He just was more outspoken.

He said he wanted a band where he had a similar to DT and this sounds like it. He does his drums and gives ideas on structure and a general direction and the rest of the guys do everything else.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Madman Shepherd on September 30, 2017, 09:29:31 PM
In DT he definitely had a bigger role from naming the albums to special concerts to official bootlegs, etc.  I don't necessarily think that makes him a band leader, either.  More of a creative director if we had to put a title to it.   

With SoA he doesn't even have those responsibilities... at least not yet.  So I don't see what there is to lead in a bigger capacity than what he and Derek are doing. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Herrick on September 30, 2017, 10:52:29 PM
Quote
2b. With regard to "leaked" material, you are not allowed to discuss the leaking or sharing of an album by any artist, or that an album has leaked. In addition to the above, with regard to Dream Theater and side-projects by the members of Dream Theater, you may not discuss the leaked material whatsoever.  For other bands, you can in most cases discuss the content of the leaked material as long as you do not reference the leak, where you obtained the material, or sharing the leaked material.
I don't know how to interpret this tbh. If it were just the first paragraph, it'd be straightforward, no leak discussion at all. But then the last paragraph muddles up the situation. For all intents and purposes, it's not possible to discuss the content of leaked material without at least indirectly referencing the leak itself, since it is known that the given album hasn't yet been released at that point. That's the definition of "leak," piracy before release. This seems like a paradoxical rule.

Yeah it does seem to be a contradiction. I think we can talk about the music but nothing else that references the L Word? I'll just play it safe and say nothing until a mod clarifies it...
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: noxon on October 01, 2017, 06:14:16 AM
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10155669711004454&set=a.10152002648949454.1073741829.509689453&type=3&theater

Well, okay then :)
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Cyclopssss on October 01, 2017, 06:18:56 AM
Quote from Mike's FB:
Mike Portnoy: Hmmm...Not my favorite review...seems like some of the DelFuvian Bravado may have puckered the anus of the "Dream Theater Club"...
Oh well...everything can't be Astonishing!!

 :facepalm:
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Cyclopssss on October 01, 2017, 06:20:25 AM
Oh and this is what Derek had to say:


Derek Sherinian Their anai (anus plural form) will soon heal, and will soon welcome the bravado willingly!

Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Peace and Love on October 01, 2017, 06:42:31 AM
Honestly, reading that entire conversation between MP, DS, and noxon was surreal.

Everytime DS puts his foot in his mouth I think, "OK, this has got to stop soon, maybe MP will ask him to refrain" but he is the gift that keeps on giving - completely oblivious to how his "humour" is perceived by others. He even participated in MP's twitter Q&A yesterday, asking him "how do you feel about breathy vocals?".

There are rules in place here to prevent me from honestly saying what I think of him, and that's probably for the best...
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Peace and Love on October 01, 2017, 06:46:08 AM
Quote from Mike's FB:
Mike Portnoy: Hmmm...Not my favorite review...seems like some of the DelFuvian Bravado may have puckered the anus of the "Dream Theater Club"...
Oh well...everything can't be Astonishing!!

 :facepalm:

This kind of knee jerk response from the dude that said that all 2 of the reviews before this one were "unanimous" makes me realize that the competitiveness with Dream Theater is not coming only from DS. The fact that MP immediately equates a neutral-to-positive review to "not as good as The Astonishing" does reveal something about his own mindset.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: TAC on October 01, 2017, 06:53:24 AM
Anyone else notice that Derek looks a whole lot like a slightly younger Paul Stanley?

No, he looks like the Kardashian Mom.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: The Walrus on October 01, 2017, 07:11:16 AM
Honestly, reading that entire conversation between MP, DS, and noxon was surreal.

Everytime DS puts his foot in his mouth I think, "OK, this has got to stop soon, maybe MP will ask him to refrain" but he is the gift that keeps on giving - completely oblivious to how his "humour" is perceived by others. He even participated in MP's twitter Q&A yesterday, asking him "how do you feel about breathy vocals?".

There are rules in place here to prevent me from honestly saying what I think of him, and that's probably for the best...

I realize this is the second SoA thread, and it was started to get away from discussions about things like this. But I agree. I have to bite my tongue on what I *really* want to say because Mike and Derek are showing no class at all and they're actually fueling a divide. He made it sound like a guy asked a stupid question over Twitter and several of his fans jumped on it calling the guy (who asked a perfectly acceptable question) 'dumb,' 'an idiot', etc. - they're doing the exact opposite of trying to keep 'peace and love' despite Mike saying that's all he wants. Disgusting
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: mikeyd23 on October 01, 2017, 08:14:40 AM
Quote from Mike's FB:
Mike Portnoy: Hmmm...Not my favorite review...seems like some of the DelFuvian Bravado may have puckered the anus of the "Dream Theater Club"...
Oh well...everything can't be Astonishing!!

 :facepalm:

 :facepalm: for sure.

Anyway, good review Noxon. I feel like it was the first actual review of the album, the strengths and weaknesses and giving a good description of the songs. Thanks for posting.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: KevShmev on October 01, 2017, 08:19:19 AM
What are we thinking the shelf life on this "real band' is? 

2 years before there is a member change.

3 years before they take a "break."

I'm taking the Under on both. :lol :lol
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: mikeyd23 on October 01, 2017, 08:28:57 AM
^ not sure really, I think it’ll depend on what the expectations of the guys really are at this point. They’ve been hyping SoA up as the next great thing, but that might just be PR. They, behind closed doors, may have a realistic expectation of this thing moving a few thousand copies the first week and playing to a few hundred (maybe 1,000 depending on the market) people on tour per show. If that’s the case, I could see this lasting maybe a couple albums and tour cycles.

On the other hand if they actually have other, bigger expectations and they don’t feel the band is meeting those, it could be a short run. Time will tell.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Skeever on October 01, 2017, 08:38:12 AM
What are we thinking the shelf life on this "real band' is? 

2 years before there is a member change.

3 years before they take a "break."

I'm taking the Under on both. :lol :lol

Yup, and let's be honest. Bumblefoot and JSS have better things to do than stick around in a flop of a band where two members can't stop stirring media drama up for the most childish reasons.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: erwinrafael on October 01, 2017, 09:08:57 AM
I think JSS is actually more excited with his solo album than this Sons of Apollo gig.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: devieira73 on October 01, 2017, 09:11:41 AM
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10155669711004454&set=a.10152002648949454.1073741829.509689453&type=3&theater

Well, okay then :)

Noxon, thanks for sharing the review! It's really detailed, very good read.
My only "criticism" about your review is that you wrote so many really good things about the album and, in the end of it all, you say '"it's not a bad album". It seems that you thought the album is better than that.
By the way, I'm pretty sure, I'll think this album will be excelent. I mean, reaaally pretty sure  ;). I'm glad I've pre-ordered the media book edition.
But I'm feel really sorry the way MP and Derek treated you on that. You made a totally professional review.They are really promoting this CD totaly the wrong way. Unfortunately they're constantly pushing away the perfect public for this CD.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: noxon on October 01, 2017, 09:16:16 AM
That's fair feedback - I will alter my statement. When I said "it's not a bad album", i could just as well have been saying "It's a good album" - because it is, even if it has a few flaws.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Lethean on October 01, 2017, 09:17:50 AM
Well, I left the review with the impression that there's a lot of good playing, but not good song writing.  Which doesn't, to me, translate to a "good" album.  (I would agree with the lack of good song writing, by the way...)
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Lethean on October 01, 2017, 09:18:38 AM
And I wouldn't change that sentence - unless you really really want to - that's how you felt when you wrote it, and it's probably pretty accurate. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Peace and Love on October 01, 2017, 09:19:02 AM
What are we thinking the shelf life on this "real band' is? 

2 years before there is a member change.

3 years before they take a "break."

I'm taking the Under on both. :lol :lol

I'll go under as well. Mainly because the Scientologist will be turning 65 soon after their world tour starts - and it's pretty hard to play heavy music that's this rich in balls and chunk at that age. I imagine touring in a heavy metal band is very taxing as you get in your 60s. That double neck bass guitar looks heavy - can't be easy on the back and neck muscles.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: erwinrafael on October 01, 2017, 09:24:45 AM
SOA has to release more music to make that the focus of this promotion. Not these social media shenanigans of their own making.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ProfessorPeart on October 01, 2017, 09:26:42 AM
I don't know why I bother to keep poking my head in here. Too much drama when all I care about is the music. I briefly took a quick look at the review but really didn't read much beyond a certain comment which summed everything up for me:

Unfortunately, the drama has already colored some potential fans expectations of the album… I hope you can look past the silly drama and judge the music on its own.

That pretty much ain't gonna happen with the majority of the people visiting this thread.

To be clear, I'm not apologizing or defending anything that is happening in social media. The fact is, I Don't Care. I really don't. As I think I said in the locked thread, if I cared about the behavior/political leanings/childishness of musicians then I would have very little music in my life. I don't know them on a personal level so I could care less about a perceived insult that is potentially aimed at me.

Eh, whatever. I said my peace.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Lethean on October 01, 2017, 09:27:18 AM
I have no idea how long this band will last or how successful it will be.  I think it will be more successful than you might think, just because each member of the band has their own fan base and there will be at least some portion of each of those fans who like the album, or at the very least, want it for their collection.  I know a few guitar player friends who are interested in it just to hear Ron Thal, and don't really care if (they think) the songs aren't that good.  There will also be those who do like the songs.  They may not be selling out arenas, but I think they'll do well enough. 

What I'm pretty sure is not going to happen is this:  Mike said that this is what his prog/DT fans have been waiting for since he left Dream Theater.  I don't think said fans are going to find that this album delivers that at all.  He presented this whole project as if it would, as if DT fans were the target audience, but I think the audience has shifted.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: gmillerdrake on October 01, 2017, 09:31:18 AM
Quote from Mike's FB:
Mike Portnoy: Hmmm...Not my favorite review...seems like some of the DelFuvian Bravado may have puckered the anus of the "Dream Theater Club"...
Oh well...everything can't be Astonishing!!

 :facepalm:

FFS Mike. Seriously? I love listening and watching him play drums and think he's an incredible musician but this is an utter Dick thing to say. There is no defending this brat like statement either because this childish response was related to a review that didn't spend the entire article blowing smoke up he and Derek's a$$. He needs to come to grips with the fact all these 'bands' that he's tried to start to eclipse DT just ain't gonna ever be near DT in talent, recognition and most of all CLASS.

Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ganpondorodf on October 01, 2017, 09:36:18 AM
Oh dear...

Well just a few weeks to go to hear it I guess.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: erwinrafael on October 01, 2017, 09:47:29 AM
The frustrating things for me in all of this is that I am following this band because of Jeff Scott Soto. Wow, JSS is in an all-star band that built themselves up as the new kings of prog, maybe he will finally get the big break he really really deserves even though it's already late in his career.

But based on what's happening (and what I have listened to) so far, it ain't gonna happen.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Madman Shepherd on October 01, 2017, 09:49:07 AM
What are we thinking the shelf life on this "real band' is? 

2 years before there is a member change.

3 years before they take a "break."

I'm taking the Under on both. :lol :lol

Yup, and let's be honest. Bumblefoot and JSS have better things to do than stick around in a flop of a band where two members can't stop stirring media drama up for the most childish reasons.

I do honestly wonder how into it Bumblefoot (or JSS) will be.  I suspect the same thing happened with Ritchie Kotzen.  New band comes along and it's kind of exciting.  There's a potential to make some better money with it.  In the end, the money made is comparable to what you made doing your solo thing.  The crowds might be a little bigger but you're getting a smaller share of the profits.  You also have to compromise a lot more.  So you go back to your solo stuff.  The money is about the same but you're happier. 

Just a theory. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Lowdz on October 01, 2017, 10:32:54 AM
It seems a very strange marketing ploy to piss of your intended market.
Not very bright.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Lowdz on October 01, 2017, 10:38:42 AM
Anyone else notice that Derek looks a whole lot like a slightly younger Paul Stanley?

No, he looks like the Kardashian Mom.

He always reminds me of Liberace...
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: TAC on October 01, 2017, 10:40:21 AM
It seems a very strange marketing ploy to piss of your intended market.
Not very bright.

Especially when it seems like it's the ONLY market.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Adami on October 01, 2017, 10:41:05 AM
(https://www.dereksherinian.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/derek-bnr2-0x0.jpg)

(https://www.thefamouspeople.com/profiles/images/paul-stanley-3.jpg)

Just saying.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: King Postwhore on October 01, 2017, 10:46:25 AM
He does.  Wow.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Sycsa on October 01, 2017, 10:57:56 AM
It's like he got a hair implant and a slightly botched face job.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: TAC on October 01, 2017, 10:59:20 AM
It's like he got a hair implant and a slightly botched face job.

It's like they called the same doctor.

Dr. Love.
:neverusethis:



I was just thinking about a SOA live show, and I bet JSS would do a killer Lines In The Sand.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: jammindude on October 01, 2017, 11:29:58 AM
EDIT - fixed link


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XaG6BbAP5BY
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Zook on October 01, 2017, 11:58:56 AM
I don't think MP can live without drama. He feeds off it. Derek is just a bitter troll though. Actually, they're both bitter.

And no, Mlike. Not everything can be The Astonishing, especially not Sons of Apollo. Tell Billy his bass sounds like ass.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: majo on October 01, 2017, 12:07:52 PM
Honestly, reading that entire conversation between MP, DS, and noxon was surreal.

Everytime DS puts his foot in his mouth I think, "OK, this has got to stop soon, maybe MP will ask him to refrain" but he is the gift that keeps on giving - completely oblivious to how his "humour" is perceived by others. He even participated in MP's twitter Q&A yesterday, asking him "how do you feel about breathy vocals?".

There are rules in place here to prevent me from honestly saying what I think of him, and that's probably for the best...
link please? if it's still put there.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Sycsa on October 01, 2017, 12:12:59 PM
I don't think MP can live without drama. He feeds off it. Derek is just a bitter troll though. Actually, they're both bitter.

And no, Mlike. Not everything can be The Astonishing, especially not Sons of Apollo. Tell Billy his bass sounds like ass.
Yeah, that bitterness is getting heavy and way too awkward. They're like a couple of old friends you don't want to see anymore because they've become overbearing with negativity. I wish they'd cut their losses already.

Billy's bass tone is great though. Don't tell me you don't love this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KK78q3D6q6w
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Peace and Love on October 01, 2017, 12:13:17 PM
Honestly, reading that entire conversation between MP, DS, and noxon was surreal.

Everytime DS puts his foot in his mouth I think, "OK, this has got to stop soon, maybe MP will ask him to refrain" but he is the gift that keeps on giving - completely oblivious to how his "humour" is perceived by others. He even participated in MP's twitter Q&A yesterday, asking him "how do you feel about breathy vocals?".

There are rules in place here to prevent me from honestly saying what I think of him, and that's probably for the best...
link please? if it's still put there.

it's in the original link already posted in this thread:

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10155669711004454&set=a.10152002648949454.1073741829.509689453&type=3&theater

click on "comments"
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: contest_sanity on October 01, 2017, 12:16:17 PM
I don't really care too much about the silly trash-talk from the SOA camp, but it's a really weak move to so heavily slam a 7/10 review that was quite detailed in its analysis.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: majo on October 01, 2017, 12:20:50 PM
Honestly, reading that entire conversation between MP, DS, and noxon was surreal.

Everytime DS puts his foot in his mouth I think, "OK, this has got to stop soon, maybe MP will ask him to refrain" but he is the gift that keeps on giving - completely oblivious to how his "humour" is perceived by others. He even participated in MP's twitter Q&A yesterday, asking him "how do you feel about breathy vocals?".

There are rules in place here to prevent me from honestly saying what I think of him, and that's probably for the best...
link please? if it's still put there.


it's in the original link already posted in this thread:

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10155669711004454&set=a.10152002648949454.1073741829.509689453&type=3&theater

click on "comments"

thanks.
Just read it and jeez... those guys (DS especially) act like 12 yo. Butthurt with everything which isn't a pure praise.  :loser:
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ganpondorodf on October 01, 2017, 12:37:11 PM
The only thing worse than being talked about is not being talked about I guess?

Yeesh. I get the need to promote a new release but they could maybe do that by emphasising what they think is good about their product rather than insulting something/someone else? Can you imagine if JJ Abrams promoted the Star Wars movies by being passive aggressive about Star Trek?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ReaperKK on October 01, 2017, 12:41:11 PM
(https://www.dereksherinian.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/derek-bnr2-0x0.jpg)

(https://www.thefamouspeople.com/profiles/images/paul-stanley-3.jpg)

Just saying.

That's uncanny
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: gmillerdrake on October 01, 2017, 12:52:55 PM
but it's a really weak move to so heavily slam a 7/10 review that was quite detailed in its analysis.

This. Not only does the review compliment them more than it calls them out for the moments of 'cheese' and 'been done' moments....it's very detailed and any intellectually honest reader can gleen from reading it that it was done in a fair, pragmatic way.

At this point the only reason I will ever purchase another musical output from MP or see him play live again is Neal Morse. So utterly sick of and disappointed by MP with this last Facebook whine fest being the straw that broke the camels back for me.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: TAC on October 01, 2017, 12:57:05 PM
He finally does a project that actually interests me, and you know what? I'm not interested.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: mikeyd23 on October 01, 2017, 01:10:55 PM
Back to a portion of Noxon’s review that caught my eye - when he basically discussed a lot of great playing on the record, but he felt like there was a lack of that nailed on songwriter guy in the band. That’s an interesting observation from the perspective of listening to the entire record. Those were my thoughts after listening to the two singles, so it’s a bit disappointing to hear that carried through to the rest of the album, but not totally surprising when I think about it. All the guys in this band are great talents but have never been known as great songwriters.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Metro on October 01, 2017, 01:17:39 PM
.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Lethean on October 01, 2017, 02:58:11 PM
Hey, what do you know, another glowing review:  https://heavymag.com.au/sons-apollo-psychotic-symphony/

This one seems a tad more serious than the other two, but still - is there anyone "professional" reviewing this album?

"Initially, you’re not sure what way the album is going to go down the route of as it has an oriental feel at the start of track one followed by some guitar play from Bumblefoot."
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: JayOctavarium on October 01, 2017, 03:06:28 PM
some guitar play from Bumblefoot."

Bumblefoot plays guitar? Gee I thought he was just there for his looks.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: SystematicThought on October 01, 2017, 03:55:02 PM
Vented on that Facebook post, Derek responded, I felt bad and backtracked  :lol

But now he told me to get over it and I’m confused
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Peace and Love on October 01, 2017, 04:00:32 PM
Vented on that Facebook post, Derek responded, I felt bad and backtracked  :lol

But now he told me to get over it and I’m confused

I read the new comments on the post and I love Sons of Apollo's approach to album promotion!! It's just so classy.

MP style: All the reviews are unanimously positive except the ones the aren't, and those are written by people with puckered anuses.

DS style: All the rude things I say are "Del Fuvian bravado" and you know they're true! And don't dare call me out you loser virgin! Don't you have a girlfriend?

JSS style: Reviews suck!! (except the ones on Koreaguitar)
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: gzarruk on October 01, 2017, 04:04:05 PM
Vented on that Facebook post, Derek responded, I felt bad and backtracked  :lol

But now he told me to get over it and I’m confused

"Focus on important things!"... said the guy who tweets daily about not using ipad apps  :lol
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bl5150 on October 01, 2017, 04:27:41 PM
I'm a big fan of a few of the guys in the band but I'm over it before I even hear it.

Banning myself from this thread  :lol
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ganpondorodf on October 01, 2017, 04:30:43 PM
Vented on that Facebook post, Derek responded, I felt bad and backtracked  :lol

But now he told me to get over it and I’m confused

Yeah this has nothing to do with 'oh that's just Derek's sense of humour!' anymore. He's being a dick. It's one thing to be a dick if you're also funny or witty or whatever but he's not. There's nothing clever or amusing about how he's been portraying himself lately, he's just being a prick for the sake of it.

Edit: I'm all about being a dick for the sake of it, but I'm also not a professional musician
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Skeever on October 01, 2017, 04:31:44 PM
Revisiting my earlier post, but I for one kind of like the form of "basic post grunge" that Sons of Apollo seem to represent. It's not my favorite genre, but I grew up listening to grunge bands and later stuff like Alter Bridge. I think it's a genre that can do decent music, when done well.

That said... out of the songs available to the public so far anyway... for that kind of straight-forward rock music, JSS and Bumblefoot pull it off. Sheehan is mostly on point, not distracting, but also not stealing the show.

And, that brings me to the point I can't help but make now... the worst things, by far, are the "Del Fuvia Brothers of Prog". Derek's 15 year old keyboard patches just sound so out of date, and inexplicable when, as a friend mentioned, there are a ton of vintage keyboard sounds that don't sound dated. And Mike's unremarkable playing is only highlighted by his unremarkable attitude.

So, can't believe I'm about to voice this heresy, but dammit I'm gonna say it. I might be more excited about this project if Derek and Mike bowed out.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ganpondorodf on October 01, 2017, 05:21:35 PM
I admit I trolled a little on that Facebook post. I said I was looking forward to SoA playing the Royal in Glasgow (where DT played last time they were in Scotland, close to 2000 capacity), and Derek took the bait.

Oh me oh my...
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Anguyen92 on October 01, 2017, 05:25:33 PM
Revisiting my earlier post, but I for one kind of like the form of "basic post grunge" that Sons of Apollo seem to represent. It's not my favorite genre, but I grew up listening to grunge bands and later stuff like Alter Bridge. I think it's a genre that can do decent music, when done well.

I've been a follower of post-grunge music for basically my whole music listening life.  When I think of early post-grunge, the obvious bands would be Creed, Nickelback, Foo Fighters.  Then you got bands like Three Days Grace and Shinedown (when they were good, not like now though where they are not as great), Stone Sour, Breaking Benjamin, Skillet and Alter Bridge.  I do think it is a genre that can do great music when done well (four of the five of my favorite albums in 2016 came from what qualifies as post-grunge bands.  The other one was from DT, of course) and it is a genre where I have heard some pretty bad stuff (Shinedown, Skillet, and Five Finger Death Punch's latest album was lacking a lot).

I can honestly say from what I heard from Sons of Apollo is that they aren't a post-grunge band which is all right.  They are more like something along the veins of classic rock sounds with a hint of prog metal, I guess.  I don't know.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Cool Chris on October 01, 2017, 06:03:35 PM
If you guys don't quit this bullshit talk of puckered anuses, excuse me... ani.... anytime someone Googles "Puckered Anus" this site is going to come up as a search result. "IS THAT WHAT YOU WANT?"
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ganpondorodf on October 01, 2017, 06:07:17 PM
If a Google image search of 'puckered anus' returns shots of Derek's face I'd count it as a win
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: As I Am on October 01, 2017, 06:10:08 PM
Quote from Mike's FB:
Mike Portnoy: Hmmm...Not my favorite review...seems like some of the DelFuvian Bravado may have puckered the anus of the "Dream Theater Club"...
Oh well...everything can't be Astonishing!!

 :facepalm:

 :facepalm: for sure.

Anyway, good review Noxon. I feel like it was the first actual review of the album, the strengths and weaknesses and giving a good description of the songs. Thanks for posting.

Ok. FIRST, I am completely in "camp MP". That being said, how can a review that gives a pretty damn good detailed description of an album (with pros & cons) that receives a 7/10 be considered a bad "bias" review? I'm sorry Mike, but "THIS TIME" you're DEAD WRONG! Aside from the 2 officially released songs, I've only heard of one other "GOTS" (online) and while I LOVED the song, the review "completely NAILED it" on that one (the good and the questionable). I understand MP's derision of this site because there are SO MANY members that just have nothing better to do than to ignorantly rip him WRONGLY, but I believe he completely F'D UP on this one, by stating his quote. SO UNNECESSARY! I pay no mind to DS's quotes because, while he is a phenomenal keyboadist, he seems like noting but a "sarcastic shit stirrer" as a person and obviously has an axe to grind against DT.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ganpondorodf on October 01, 2017, 06:13:11 PM
So nice you to join us, Mr President!
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: KevShmev on October 01, 2017, 06:29:51 PM
It's no wonder Sherinian is such a big fan of Van Halen: he comes off a far less successful David Lee Roth.  Ya know, the guy who has so much arrogance that it's comical and just not believable.

On the other hand, I actually feel sorry for Portnoy at this point because, for all of his success, he comes off as a guy filled with a lot anger and bitterness, not to mention being such an overly sensitive soul that any criticism bugs the crap out of him.  It's gotta be hell be inside your own head as much as he is.

Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Zook on October 01, 2017, 06:37:35 PM
Quote from Mike's FB:
Mike Portnoy: Hmmm...Not my favorite review...seems like some of the DelFuvian Bravado may have puckered the anus of the "Dream Theater Club"...
Oh well...everything can't be Astonishing!!

 :facepalm:

 :facepalm: for sure.

Anyway, good review Noxon. I feel like it was the first actual review of the album, the strengths and weaknesses and giving a good description of the songs. Thanks for posting.

Ok. FIRST, I am completely in "camp MP". That being said, how can a review that gives a pretty damn good detailed description of an album (with pros & cons) that receives a 7/10 be considered a bad "bias" review? I'm sorry Mike, but "THIS TIME" you're DEAD WRONG! Aside from the 2 officially released songs, I've only heard of one other "GOTS" (online) and while I LOVED the song, the review "completely NAILED it" on that one (the good and the questionable). I understand MP's derision of this site because there are SO MANY members that just have nothing better to do than to ignorantly rip him WRONGLY, but I believe he completely F'D UP on this one, by stating his quote. SO UNNECESSARY! I pay no mind to DS's quotes because, while he is a phenomenal keyboadist, he seems like noting but a "sarcastic shit stirrer" as a person and obviously has an axe to grind against DT.

Chaossystem upgraded to underline and bold. Neat!
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Dave_Manchester on October 01, 2017, 06:39:49 PM
Jeff Scott Soto has also just dismissed Noxon's review as a "misrepresentation" of their album. Apparently any fawning and wafer-thin veneration of the album is "just his perspective guys!", but a properly-written, balanced and in-depth appraisal is a "misrepresentation".

Anyway, good review Noxon, I thought it was well-researched and very fair.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: NoseofNicko on October 01, 2017, 06:50:26 PM
Yeah I don’t think I’m gonna buy the album now. I didn’t really mind Derek’s shitty comments, but this review thing is just too much. These guys don’t deserve my money.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ErHaO on October 01, 2017, 06:59:55 PM
Yeah, this is a bit too much.  Seeing these older artists, who have been succesfully in the game for a long ass time, pile on a well written review that gives a solid/good grade seems so odd. Sorry if this is all offtopic, but this review is written by a fellow member and I just want to say I think it is well written and ironically it makes me look forward to the album, which is kind of negated by the band's sad behavior.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: SystematicThought on October 01, 2017, 07:26:56 PM
I realize that I really didn't need to say anything in response to Mike and Derek's comments, it just bothered me, especially coming off of Mike's great post after the Shattered Fortress show. I don't know how two musicians who have people saying that they are turned off by comments from musical heroes ripping on other musicians can be so passive and rude about it. I understand that they are proud of their work and want people to like it, but ripping down others isn't the way to do it. Most people don't care about all of the social media drama, and that's fine, it just seems like a weird way to market your product.

Also, I wasn't expecting that second response from Derek after I tried to be a bit more positive, it went a different direction then I was expecting.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bill1971 on October 01, 2017, 09:52:54 PM
I thought it was a very fair review. You even put that it's your opinion. Ironically didn't MP just defend the koreanguitar review because of his opinion?

Anyhow Im not going to say anything else because I believe the natural consequences of their behavior will harm them far more than what I will post. Also, they will not be getting my money.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bosk1 on October 01, 2017, 10:03:36 PM
Funny how, if they wanted, they could have almost unanimous support from the DT community.  But due to the way Mike and Derek are handling themselves publicly and privately, they are completely shooting themselves in the feet by alienating some of the fanbase.  Pretty shortsighted to alienate the very fanbase that started out predisposed to support them.  Oh well.  If this project flops, they have no one to blame but themselves.

I will say again:  As far as this site is concerned, follow the rules and be respectful.  But at the same time, this isn't Facebook or MP.com.  As long as criticism is constructive and doesn't become personal, it is permitted in the interest of open discussion. 

With regard to discussing the album:  If you have been given an authorized pre-release promo, you are authorized to post that.  If you have not, posting that you have heard it, that it has leaked, any details, or anything like the preceeding will get you banned from here.  No further warnings on the subject.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Architeuthis on October 01, 2017, 11:43:34 PM
I wouldn't want spoilers anyway. I don't care about any controversial hoopla surrounding all this. It has no effect on me personally and won't stop me from buying the cd when it's released. I look forward to hearing it..  :metal
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ariich on October 02, 2017, 02:49:56 AM
I wouldn't want spoilers anyway. I don't care about any controversial hoopla surrounding all this. It has no effect on me personally and won't stop me from buying the cd when it's released. I look forward to hearing it..  :metal
I basically agree - I think it's a shame there's this drama, and I don't really understand why both the band and a chunk of the potential fanbase seem to think there need to be two "sides".

I'll also vouch for Kim, whose DT reviews are always similarly professional and quite neutral in tone, which I guess could be taken as being critical (I remember some fans feeling that way about some of his recent DT reviews) but are actually just objective, especially for such a dedicated fan. In this particular case, given the "sides", I wonder if the simple fact that it's from the DT fanclub could make it seem biased in SOA's eyes.

But anyway, all this nonsense doesn't affect my enjoyment of the music at all, and I've enjoyed what I've heard so far a great deal. Looking forward to hopefully getting my promo copy soon - we always seem to get InsideOut promos later than most other places, for some reason.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: the keyboard wizard on October 02, 2017, 03:33:03 AM
we always seem to get InsideOut promos later than most other places, for some reason.
It really depends as I already got my promo link for an album to be released after Psychotic Symphony (the new PFM to be precise) and the promoter told me that I would get the link one day before the album release (they don't trust me :D my relations with Inside Out are new so I think they are a bit distrustful which is understandable).
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: noxon on October 02, 2017, 04:54:48 AM
Regarding the DT.club supporting ex-members;

One of the things I stipulated as a non-negotiable requirement for me to take the reins of the new fan club I was building, as that I wanted full editorial freedom. The right to choose the content on the sites and social media that I control.

The reason for this was I wanted this to be a true "Dream Theater World" - not only uniting the fans all across the globe into one fan club, but to ensure that we would have the ability to objectively cover anyone and anything connected to Dream Theater. Current members, staff, ex-members, side projects and so forth. There's no Dream Theater breathing down my neck making sure I only post stuff they approve.

So I really don't get this bias argument. I have covered Charlie Dominicis attempt at crowdfunding. I have covered the Kevin Moore patreon and new tracks. I have covered Mike Portnoys bands (specifically Neal Morse Band, Shattered Fortress and Sons of Apollo as they're the ones that have been relevant during the period the fan club has existed). I don't take sides! I don't even see it as sides. It's a bunch of musicians creating music. Some of it good, some of it maybe not so good. What on earth would my gain be in being intentionally biased against Sons of Apollo? If anything, Sons of Apollo would provide me of yet another source for content. Sucking up to Mike and Derek would be in my best interest, if I was a man without any integrity. But I've prided myself on having the ability to try to stay objective and neutral even considering the fact that I have had personal access to people others simply do not have.

Now, let it be said: The bias "tag" only came after I started engaging Derek, so I might have brought that on myself :P
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: faizoff on October 02, 2017, 05:16:42 AM
noxon, I thought your review was pretty good and odd as it may sound I'm really excited to hear the album now. It's an honest observation from a fan and as such written so. I will check it out when the album is out, regardless of the behavior meted out to you by the band members.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: rumborak on October 02, 2017, 05:40:13 AM
I definitely agree with whoever said that no matter how the album pans out, it looks like a good concert to attend. All of the guys are pretty good showmen, and I suspect the show would be an absolute riot.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ariich on October 02, 2017, 06:28:14 AM
Regarding the DT.club supporting ex-members;

One of the things I stipulated as a non-negotiable requirement for me to take the reins of the new fan club I was building, as that I wanted full editorial freedom. The right to choose the content on the sites and social media that I control.

The reason for this was I wanted this to be a true "Dream Theater World" - not only uniting the fans all across the globe into one fan club, but to ensure that we would have the ability to objectively cover anyone and anything connected to Dream Theater. Current members, staff, ex-members, side projects and so forth. There's no Dream Theater breathing down my neck making sure I only post stuff they approve.

So I really don't get this bias argument. I have covered Charlie Dominicis attempt at crowdfunding. I have covered the Kevin Moore patreon and new tracks. I have covered Mike Portnoys bands (specifically Neal Morse Band, Shattered Fortress and Sons of Apollo as they're the ones that have been relevant during the period the fan club has existed). I don't take sides! I don't even see it as sides. It's a bunch of musicians creating music. Some of it good, some of it maybe not so good. What on earth would my gain be in being intentionally biased against Sons of Apollo? If anything, Sons of Apollo would provide me of yet another source for content. Sucking up to Mike and Derek would be in my best interest, if I was a man without any integrity. But I've prided myself on having the ability to try to stay objective and neutral even considering the fact that I have had personal access to people others simply do not have.

Now, let it be said: The bias "tag" only came after I started engaging Derek, so I might have brought that on myself :P
Completely agree and I hope you didn't think I was saying anything otherwise.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Peter Mc on October 02, 2017, 06:48:47 AM
I thought the review seemed balanced and generally pretty positive, actually made me want to give it a try moreso than before reading it.  The only thing I could see anyone taking offence to (if you're in the band) is the suggestion that none of them are great songwriters, no one probably likes hearing that!  It's a fair point though.

My only point on DS comment would be this.  It's only natural surely that the DT fan community would review a prog metal record where the band contains two former members of Dream Theater.  All things being equal, DT fans should be biased towards SOA because of this and they should be a large percentage of their fan base.  If DT fans are biased against this band (and DS clearly expects them to be based on his comment) then clearly DS/MP aren't doing it right. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: kaos2900 on October 02, 2017, 07:25:37 AM
but it's a really weak move to so heavily slam a 7/10 review that was quite detailed in its analysis.

This. Not only does the review compliment them more than it calls them out for the moments of 'cheese' and 'been done' moments....it's very detailed and any intellectually honest reader can gleen from reading it that it was done in a fair, pragmatic way.

At this point the only reason I will ever purchase another musical output from MP or see him play live again is Neal Morse. So utterly sick of and disappointed by MP with this last Facebook whine fest being the straw that broke the camels back for me.

I'm with you on that. I'm to the point where I wish Neal would find a new drummer.

Noxon, anyway you could post your review? I don't have facebook and would like to read it.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: The Walrus on October 02, 2017, 07:26:58 AM
It is really sad that 20 years, many albums and several projects later, Derek is still salty about being the second fiddle to Jordan. Technical proficiency isn't all that matters, in the end it's the music you make that counts. And it's really sad that he doesn't seem to understand that since he's still taking puerile digs at Jordan and the rest of DT. Same goes for Mike. How on Earth is it even possible for that man to have won so many awards - consecutively, at that - and still have such thin skin for criticism and disagreement?

I won't say anything about the album yet. But...  :tdwn
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Stadler on October 02, 2017, 07:29:39 AM
(https://www.dereksherinian.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/derek-bnr2-0x0.jpg)

(https://www.thefamouspeople.com/profiles/images/paul-stanley-3.jpg)

Just saying.

That's uncanny

...and Paul Stanley is 15 years older... (14 exactly).
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: rumborak on October 02, 2017, 07:33:08 AM
To some degree, the way I perceive it, is that the two seem to view us as "musical morons" who will eat up anything that has odd meters and fast solos in it. Because, how can we have taste if we still listen to that unspeakable band that MP was once a part of?!
So, DS and MP form a band to pander to the likes us, but because neither of them even is into prog all that much these days, it becomes a shoehorned effort. Us musical morons pick up on that, but between their incredulity and fragile egos, they quickly conclude that we are indeed the morons they took us for, only for a different reason.
Tldr: "We pandered to morons but they didn't like it, which shows they're even more moronic than we thought."
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ganpondorodf on October 02, 2017, 07:36:13 AM
How on Earth is it even possible for that man to have won so many awards - consecutively, at that - and still have such thin skin for criticism and disagreement?

If MP was just starting out in this day and age he wouldn't last five minutes. I've said it before and I'll say it again: he needs to step back. He needs to not read reviews or social media or anything. Engaging with your fans can be a good thing but he's too sensitive for it.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: MirrorMask on October 02, 2017, 07:41:15 AM
Speaking generally, I think that a musician has only to lose and nothing to gain by commenting on reviews.

If they're unprofessional, trolling and insulting reviews, giving even the credit of the acknoledgment is a victory for the unprofessional reviewer / troll.

If they're professional and express critics in a tasteful and argumented ways, still commenting on them gives to the casual follower the impression that the musician has too much of a thin skin to accept any kind of critic.

Just share positive reviews and ignore the rest, nobody's gonna ask to a band  to repost on their social media negative reviews anyway.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: noxon on October 02, 2017, 07:49:20 AM

Noxon, anyway you could post your review? I don't have facebook and would like to read it.

https://dreamtheater.club - it's the newest post.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bill1971 on October 02, 2017, 08:17:01 AM

Noxon, anyway you could post your review? I don't have facebook and would like to read it.

https://dreamtheater.club - it's the newest post.

What did you and Derek say? I don't have Facebook.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: gzarruk on October 02, 2017, 08:26:39 AM
Regarding the DT.club supporting ex-members;

One of the things I stipulated as a non-negotiable requirement for me to take the reins of the new fan club I was building, as that I wanted full editorial freedom. The right to choose the content on the sites and social media that I control.

The reason for this was I wanted this to be a true "Dream Theater World" - not only uniting the fans all across the globe into one fan club, but to ensure that we would have the ability to objectively cover anyone and anything connected to Dream Theater. Current members, staff, ex-members, side projects and so forth. There's no Dream Theater breathing down my neck making sure I only post stuff they approve.

So I really don't get this bias argument. I have covered Charlie Dominicis attempt at crowdfunding. I have covered the Kevin Moore patreon and new tracks. I have covered Mike Portnoys bands (specifically Neal Morse Band, Shattered Fortress and Sons of Apollo as they're the ones that have been relevant during the period the fan club has existed). I don't take sides! I don't even see it as sides. It's a bunch of musicians creating music. Some of it good, some of it maybe not so good. What on earth would my gain be in being intentionally biased against Sons of Apollo? If anything, Sons of Apollo would provide me of yet another source for content. Sucking up to Mike and Derek would be in my best interest, if I was a man without any integrity. But I've prided myself on having the ability to try to stay objective and neutral even considering the fact that I have had personal access to people others simply do not have.

Great post and excellent review of the album. I think the band members that commented on it (MP, DS and JSS) are just too blinded by the novelty of SOA that are, at this point, incapable of seeing any flaw on their own work. They're saying something like "We've created the most amazing album you could ever listen to in your entire lives. If you don't agree with it, then you're retarded, biased, or some crap like that". And, imo, that's the worst thing a new band can do (or any band, actually).


I basically agree - I think it's a shame there's this drama, and I don't really understand why both the band and a chunk of the potential fanbase seem to think there need to be two "sides".

There's no need to split this into two "sides" that are at conflict with each other. In fact, when this was first announced, I was very excited about this new band/album and had big amounts of respect/admiration for DS, and, to a lesser degree, MP. However, they were the ones who started taking sides as in "if you like them, I don't want to have anything to do with you". So it's bassically their fault that people are taking sides on this topic.

Also, as many other people have said on previous posts, it's really a very bad move to start taking shots at the people who conform pretty much around 90% of you potential fanbase. At this point, SOA is a band directed mostly (mainly because of MP's and DS' actions) to hardcore fans that will buy anything that has MP and/or DS names on it.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Stadler on October 02, 2017, 08:38:11 AM
I'm closest to "As I Am" here.  I am Team Mike - for the record I think Derek IS joking, it's just not as clear and funny as he would perhaps like it to be - but here's where it gets real for me:   we're not building a good stable relationship with the fans.     

Think about this;  you're slagging reviews that give a 7/10 (full disclosure: haven't read the review yet) on the grounds that it's "biased", but what happens when the album comes out?   That's a LOT of eggs in one basket, right there.   Most artists would, I would think, take a 7 out of 10, but since they've set the bar at "you're either for us or against us", and seven out of ten is "against us", what happens when or if the vast majority of reviews are 7 or lower?  This won't be the first - nor the last - album that has been good but not universally perfect (what album has been?)    The Zeppelin albums, even the legendary IV, notoriously got poor reviews (at least from Rolling Stone) the first time around. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: emtee on October 02, 2017, 08:48:43 AM
This bravado attitude and the drama it's unleashing across the community is truly hard to understand. I've tried to stay away from
all of it and let each camp fight their own battles but DS and MP are making it really hard to buy into this 'I heard you took one in
the face' attitude.

Dang.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: MirrorMask on October 02, 2017, 08:50:50 AM
I think when the album will be out, all of this will be like Maiden's Dance of Death cover: it will no longer matter, or anyway it's gonna be a minor footnote.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Sycsa on October 02, 2017, 09:07:17 AM
Maiden's Dance of Death cover
What's the story with that?

Anyway, everytime "Del Fuvio brothers/bravado" is meantioned, I cringe harder and harder. None of this is funny or edgy. I also gotta wonder, since they polarized the fanbase so much, who even is in their "corner?" MP's forum was shut down, because they didn't unanimously conform to the desired opinion, they alienated DTF, heavily moderate FB, while reddit is also pretty lukewarm. I guess the YouTube comments are pretty positive.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bosk1 on October 02, 2017, 09:09:06 AM
I think when the album will be out, all of this will be like Maiden's Dance of Death cover: it will no longer matter, or anyway it's gonna be a minor footnote.
I'm not so sure.  It's one thing to put out a sloppy looking product that sounds good.  It's another thing entirely to attack and alienate a significant portion of your fanbase.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: noxon on October 02, 2017, 09:16:25 AM
Realistically - most people will never have seen or heard above this so-called drama. While we’d all like to think we’re the center of the universe - the fact of the matter is that only a few hundred people have seen it and care... I know this cause I see the stats on Facebook and my review. Even when mike posted my interview with him it only racked up some 10000 views... this is reality.

So I’m not sure any of this matters.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bill1971 on October 02, 2017, 09:19:29 AM
It is funny. MP says all reviews are unanimous except the bad ones, they don't count because they are biased. At least DS posted it on his page unlike MP.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Sycsa on October 02, 2017, 09:22:49 AM
Realistically - most people will never have seen or heard above this so-called drama. While we’d all like to think we’re the center of the universe - the fact of the matter is that only a few hundred people have seen it and care... I know this cause I see the stats on Facebook and my review. Even when mike posted my interview with him it only racked up some 10000 views... this is reality.

So I’m not sure any of this matters.
Yeah, this. Also, how many album sales can be expected, a few tens of thousands? 97% of those won't be aware of this whole BS.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Art on October 02, 2017, 09:33:04 AM
Even though MP and Derek have been displaying extremely poor taste in the online "jokes"* about the SOA x DT rivalry (which really doesn't exist), i am, for the time being, still excited to listen to the album. I like the two songs that have been released, and i think this album might be good for my tastes.

But yeah, this attitude from the band is really silly and childish, and i doubt it's helping them to get more fans, if anything, it's just alienating a part of the fanbase.

*i am taking them as jokes, even if they are in extremely poor taste. If they seriously think they are the new kings of prog metal, i think they have gone completely crazy.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bosk1 on October 02, 2017, 09:36:40 AM
Realistically - most people will never have seen or heard above this so-called drama. While we’d all like to think we’re the center of the universe - the fact of the matter is that only a few hundred people have seen it and care... I know this cause I see the stats on Facebook and my review. Even when mike posted my interview with him it only racked up some 10000 views... this is reality.

So I’m not sure any of this matters.

I'm not so sure.  I mean, I agree with your general point that we are a small portion of the fan base and not a big deal.  The problem for SoA is, they appeal to only a small niche fan base as it is.  They NEED the word to get out if they want to sell albums/tickets.  And the very people who stand to want to buy their product are the ones they are attacking.  If you had a Metallica-sized fan base, numbers like us wouldn't matter.  For a likely SoA-sized fan base, I think it's a different story altogether.

But either way, it's still a pretty dumb move on their part.  If there is no measurable impact on their success, great.  But if they lose even a single fan more than they gain by this, then it's a mistake on their part.  And I would wager that they have lost more than that.  But that's on them to figure out how to deal with.  All I can say for certain is this:  For me, I'm still likely to buy the album.  I like what I've heard.  But I am less enthusiastic about it.  So if I end up being lukewarm on it, that could still have an impact on my overall fandom of the band because the extra-curricular stuff could make me less likely to give them the benefit of the doubt next time around.  And when it comes to live stuff, if they were to come close enough to think about going to a show, unless it were extremely cheap and convenient, this extra-curricular stuff has me thinking I am not likely to make much effort to see them in person.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: kaos2900 on October 02, 2017, 09:38:26 AM
Realistically - most people will never have seen or heard above this so-called drama. While we’d all like to think we’re the center of the universe - the fact of the matter is that only a few hundred people have seen it and care... I know this cause I see the stats on Facebook and my review. Even when mike posted my interview with him it only racked up some 10000 views... this is reality.

So I’m not sure any of this matters.
Yeah, this. Also, how many album sales can be expected, a few tens of thousands? 97% of those won't be aware of this whole BS.

I think that is pretty optimistic estimate.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Stadler on October 02, 2017, 09:46:38 AM
Surely Mike knows all this? After 30+ years in the business?  Surely MARLENE knows this? 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: MirrorMask on October 02, 2017, 09:48:31 AM
Maiden's Dance of Death cover
What's the story with that?

Not really a story, but it's just that the cover art upon release was universally panned and loathed. The album got much better appreciation for the actual music, so while before the release date the ugly cover was everything fans could talk about, over time and over the years the album got remembered for its standout songs, not for an ugly cover.

Now let's say the Sons of Apollo album is absolutely amazing, in the long run people will talk more about the song itself rather than some tweets... as long as the whole thing does not get taken to the next level by the band members, the music will overshadow the tweets.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Sycsa on October 02, 2017, 09:51:19 AM
Realistically - most people will never have seen or heard above this so-called drama. While we’d all like to think we’re the center of the universe - the fact of the matter is that only a few hundred people have seen it and care... I know this cause I see the stats on Facebook and my review. Even when mike posted my interview with him it only racked up some 10000 views... this is reality.

So I’m not sure any of this matters.
Yeah, this. Also, how many album sales can be expected, a few tens of thousands? 97% of those won't be aware of this whole BS.

I think that is pretty optimistic estimate.
I don't know, my only point of reference is that according to Billboard 200, DT can usually ship between 30-40k albums on the first week of release in the US alone. I think in a longer time and worldwide, given the star power in SoA, they can sell 10-20k.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Herrick on October 02, 2017, 10:18:11 AM
Realistically - most people will never have seen or heard above this so-called drama. While we’d all like to think we’re the center of the universe - the fact of the matter is that only a few hundred people have seen it and care... I know this cause I see the stats on Facebook and my review. Even when mike posted my interview with him it only racked up some 10000 views... this is reality.

So I’m not sure any of this matters.

I was thinking the same thing. How many Dream Theater fans are following the drama? How many of them post on message boards and follow Twitter? And for the ones who aware of the drama, how many of them care enough to not check out Sons of Apollo? I'm going to see Dream Theater in November with a friend who has been to a few concerts and he doesn't know anything about Sherinian & Portnoy's comments. He probably doesn't even know about Sons of Apollo.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Skeever on October 02, 2017, 10:23:03 AM
To some degree, the way I perceive it, is that the two seem to view us as "musical morons" who will eat up anything that has odd meters and fast solos in it. Because, how can we have taste if we still listen to that unspeakable band that MP was once a part of?!
So, DS and MP form a band to pander to the likes us, but because neither of them even is into prog all that much these days, it becomes a shoehorned effort. Us musical morons pick up on that, but between their incredulity and fragile egos, they quickly conclude that we are indeed the morons they took us for, only for a different reason.
Tldr: "We pandered to morons but they didn't like it, which shows they're even more moronic than we thought."

Yup, I agree with this assessment. And I think the other fatal tragedy here is that MP doesn't seem to "get" who his real fans are. Some of the people who wish he'd stop with this "with us or against us" attitude? The very same who attend his special TSF shows, his cruises, buy his albums and box sets, etc. In a way, it's starting to feel like the inverse of Never Enough has become true: it's no longer that fans are ungrateful for MP, it's that no fan can ever live up to the fanboy that MP wants. It's not enough to spend hundreds of dollars per year seeing the man's various projects; all Mike knows or cares about is that one time you gave said one of his projects wasn't your cup of tea.
l
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: rumborak on October 02, 2017, 10:36:09 AM
Interacting with fans on social media is a bit like "Wargames": the only winning move is to not play. The moment you start discussing publicly with a fan, you implicitly stepped down from the pedestal that a lot of people had put you on in their minds. That already is a huge loss on the side of the artist.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Sycsa on October 02, 2017, 11:00:55 AM
Yeah, "don't meet your heroes" is a pretty good saying, which is often true. Interacting with them on social media is a version of that.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: The Walrus on October 02, 2017, 11:19:33 AM
Honestly the stuff over the last few days has made me reconsider even buying Mike's stuff in the future, SOA related or not. His ego's inflated like a balloon over the last few years and it really shows with his promotion of SoA. Getting tired of it and I don't feel like feeding his ego with my hard earned and precious dollars.

Question: what is the difference - morally, not legally, which should be obvious - between listening to a leaked album and listening to it for free on a platform like Spotify? I pay for Spotify but even if I wasn't I'd be able to listen to Psychotic Symphony for free and they'd be making a fraction of a penny that way, I'd have to play the album a thousand times for them to see any monetary compensation.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: antigoon on October 02, 2017, 11:29:03 AM
Up to you and your God, I guess.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: MirrorMask on October 02, 2017, 11:30:22 AM
Well, Spotify, for the little next to nothing that it makes, is endorsed by the band and the label, or at the very least accepted and agreed upon, the album floating around on the net is not.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: gzarruk on October 02, 2017, 11:33:22 AM
Yup, I agree with this assessment. And I think the other fatal tragedy here is that MP doesn't seem to "get" who his real fans are. Some of the people who wish he'd stop with this "with us or against us" attitude? The very same who attend his special TSF shows, his cruises, buy his albums and box sets, etc. In a way, it's starting to feel like the inverse of Never Enough has become true: it's no longer that fans are ungrateful for MP, it's that no fan can ever live up to the fanboy that MP wants. It's not enough to spend hundreds of dollars per year seeing the man's various projects; all Mike knows or cares about is that one time you gave said one of his projects wasn't your cup of tea.

That's a very interesting point, Skeever. I think you're right. Mike has replied with sarcastic/satirical comments and tweets to fans that asked him something on social media and he answered something like "If you were a true fan, you WOULD know or do this or that".

For example, I remember that someone asked him a while ago if the TSF shows were going to be recorded for a future release, since he, and many many many others, myself included, didn't live anywhere near the places/countries that had been announced for the tour. Mike replied with something along the lines of "This is a once in a lifetime event, and if you were a true fan, you would do whatever it takes to catch one of these shows" (Not his exact words).
Some people just can't afford to travel to another country or get in a cruise for a few days just to see Mike (or any other artist) perform a show, and that doesn't mean they aren't true fans or anything like that. It's just silly.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Stadler on October 02, 2017, 11:40:50 AM
I know for me, I've long grown out of the "battle" mentality of music.  I'm not a standard bearer for METAL! or PROG! and I can easily listen to Harry Styles and Sons of Apollo with no irony or no confusion.   My last five shows are Gene Simmons, Iron Maiden, Neal Morse, Shattered Fortress, and Night Ranger.   

I was at Night Ranger Friday - by myself (it was a fairground, and my wife and step-daughter were elsewhere in the fair) - and I can remember when Sing Me Away came on and some old fat guy (not me) and his girl looked over at me and we traded horns and cheesy guitar faces, but we were having a fucking BLAST.  That's what it's about.  Not this nonsense about what's a "real" review or not.   I don't give a flap about apps and wizardry and cheese.  Jack Blades is a walking block of cheddar as far as that goes, and yet there were 5,000 people (at least) rockin' out like it was a Beatles reunion.   I just want good, honest, heart-felt music.   
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Stadler on October 02, 2017, 11:44:37 AM
Honestly the stuff over the last few days has made me reconsider even buying Mike's stuff in the future, SOA related or not. His ego's inflated like a balloon over the last few years and it really shows with his promotion of SoA. Getting tired of it and I don't feel like feeding his ego with my hard earned and precious dollars.

Question: what is the difference - morally, not legally, which should be obvious - between listening to a leaked album and listening to it for free on a platform like Spotify? I pay for Spotify but even if I wasn't I'd be able to listen to Psychotic Symphony for free and they'd be making a fraction of a penny that way, I'd have to play the album a thousand times for them to see any monetary compensation.

I think MirrorMask is saying this, but it's Flying Colors' art, and their choice to release it and how it gets released.  There are quality issues (perhaps) and if FC says "Spotify is within our marketing plan", it's their call.   Perhaps the version you get is the same, perhaps it's not.   I would hate to think that I worked on a record for months and someone doesn't like it because it sounded like shit on a 128Kbps burn.   Yeah, of course that could happen otherwise, but you said MORALLY.  And MORALLY, I would prefer to listen to the album in as reasonably close a fashion to what the artist intended as I can.  And officially sanctioned outlets are a way of doing that. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Stadler on October 02, 2017, 11:47:04 AM
Yup, I agree with this assessment. And I think the other fatal tragedy here is that MP doesn't seem to "get" who his real fans are. Some of the people who wish he'd stop with this "with us or against us" attitude? The very same who attend his special TSF shows, his cruises, buy his albums and box sets, etc. In a way, it's starting to feel like the inverse of Never Enough has become true: it's no longer that fans are ungrateful for MP, it's that no fan can ever live up to the fanboy that MP wants. It's not enough to spend hundreds of dollars per year seeing the man's various projects; all Mike knows or cares about is that one time you gave said one of his projects wasn't your cup of tea.

That's a very interesting point, Skeever. I think you're right. Mike has replied with sarcastic/satirical comments and tweets to fans that asked him something on social media and he answered something like "If you were a true fan, you WOULD know or do this or that".

For example, I remember that someone asked him a while ago if the TSF shows were going to be recorded for a future release, since he, and many many many others, myself included, didn't live anywhere near the places/countries that had been announced for the tour. Mike replied with something along the lines of "This is a once in a lifetime event, and if you were a true fan, you would do whatever it takes to catch one of these shows" (Not his exact words).
Some people just can't afford to travel to another country or get in a cruise for a few days just to see Mike (or any other artist) perform a show, and that doesn't mean they aren't true fans or anything like that. It's just silly.

I agree with this.  I consider myself a "true fan" in the knowledge sense of the word, and the dedication sense of the word, but I missed a LOT of the epic shows in the New York area (Score, Radio City) because I was living in the south, with a newborn, working full time and going to school at night.  It just wasn't in the cards to drop everything, spend money I didn't have, to cavort to NYC to see a concert.   And I refuse to acknowledge that that somehow dictates what level "fan" I am.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Sycsa on October 02, 2017, 11:51:02 AM
Question: what is the difference - morally, not legally, which should be obvious - between listening to a leaked album and listening to it for free on a platform like Spotify? I pay for Spotify but even if I wasn't I'd be able to listen to Psychotic Symphony for free and they'd be making a fraction of a penny that way, I'd have to play the album a thousand times for them to see any monetary compensation.
I think that pirating music isn't really frowned upon by most artists, especially regarding markets like Eastern Europe, for instance. Dream Theater just did 2 shows in Romania. Without piracy in the 90s, early 2000s, and without YouTube, it's a safe bet that they wouldn't have such a big market in these post-eastern bloc countries. The band themselves see way more money from these markets this way. Morally speaking, that's the best case scenario, a win-win for everybody. If a band brings me joy, I'll make sure to support them financially too.


Also, this FC promo is hysterical: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zwkg2waXKFA "the eagerly awaited record, that nobody anticipated, became the unprecedented album that everybody wasn't expecting." :lol If only MP decided to promo SoA in a similar fashion. It also would have been way more in-line with the "cool rocking dudes" image they're trying to push.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bosk1 on October 02, 2017, 11:52:59 AM
Yup, I agree with this assessment. And I think the other fatal tragedy here is that MP doesn't seem to "get" who his real fans are. Some of the people who wish he'd stop with this "with us or against us" attitude? The very same who attend his special TSF shows, his cruises, buy his albums and box sets, etc. In a way, it's starting to feel like the inverse of Never Enough has become true: it's no longer that fans are ungrateful for MP, it's that no fan can ever live up to the fanboy that MP wants. It's not enough to spend hundreds of dollars per year seeing the man's various projects; all Mike knows or cares about is that one time you gave said one of his projects wasn't your cup of tea.

That's a very interesting point, Skeever. I think you're right. Mike has replied with sarcastic/satirical comments and tweets to fans that asked him something on social media and he answered something like "If you were a true fan, you WOULD know or do this or that".

For example, I remember that someone asked him a while ago if the TSF shows were going to be recorded for a future release, since he, and many many many others, myself included, didn't live anywhere near the places/countries that had been announced for the tour. Mike replied with something along the lines of "This is a once in a lifetime event, and if you were a true fan, you would do whatever it takes to catch one of these shows" (Not his exact words).
Some people just can't afford to travel to another country or get in a cruise for a few days just to see Mike (or any other artist) perform a show, and that doesn't mean they aren't true fans or anything like that. It's just silly.

I agree with this.  I consider myself a "true fan" in the knowledge sense of the word, and the dedication sense of the word, but I missed a LOT of the epic shows in the New York area (Score, Radio City) because I was living in the south, with a newborn, working full time and going to school at night.  It just wasn't in the cards to drop everything, spend money I didn't have, to cavort to NYC to see a concert.   And I refuse to acknowledge that that somehow dictates what level "fan" I am.

I think we're basically saying the same thing, but I would just choose to word it a bit differently:  For me, if it is not in the budget or if I don't think it is in the best interest of my family to spend the time or money to go to a show, the show has to take a back seat to that.  My family comes first, and since stewardship of my time and money belongs to my family just as much as me individually, I'm going to sometimes have to prioritize in a way that causes me to miss some things.  If that makes me less than a "true fan," then I'm just not a "true fan."  And I'm okay with that. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Stadler on October 02, 2017, 11:55:17 AM
How exactly do you eagerly await something and yet not anticipate it at the same time?   Isn't that like taking a bath and not getting wet?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: As I Am on October 02, 2017, 11:55:45 AM
Funny how, if they wanted, they could have almost unanimous support from the DT community.  But due to the way Mike and Derek are handling themselves publicly and privately, they are completely shooting themselves in the feet by alienating some of the fanbase.  Pretty shortsighted to alienate the very fanbase that started out predisposed to support them.  Oh well.  If this project flops, they have no one to blame but themselves.



agreed. Very strange way to "promote"! :facepalm:
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: MirrorMask on October 02, 2017, 12:01:08 PM
Went back to listen to the two songs. I kinda like them by now. Signs of the Time is the better of the two, very nice vocal melodies, maybe the solo runs a little too long. Coming Home has a nice groove, but I'm just totally NOT into the lyrics subject. Never cared for those kind of lyrics, maybe one out of 100 come out nice and catchy but in the majority of cases they just sound a bit cheesy.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bill1971 on October 02, 2017, 12:02:16 PM
How exactly do you eagerly await something and yet not anticipate it at the same time?   Isn't that like taking a bath and not getting wet?

I have been eagerly waiting for you to explain that analogy for the past few years now.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Sycsa on October 02, 2017, 12:06:56 PM
Went back to listen to the two songs. I kinda like them by now. Signs of the Time is the better of the two, very nice vocal melodies, maybe the solo runs a little too long. Coming Home has a nice groove, but I'm just totally NOT into the lyrics subject. Never cared for those kind of lyrics, maybe one out of 100 come out nice and catchy but in the majority of cases they just sound a bit cheesy.
I can picture MP, when he saw the lyircs, he was like "dude, I'm gonna have to sing that "I'm coming home" part, since I'm coming back to prog to kick some ass, you know, heh heh." Depending on my mood, that's walking a fine line between being emotional/moving and cringey/cheesy.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Lethean on October 02, 2017, 12:10:05 PM
I know for me, I've long grown out of the "battle" mentality of music.  I'm not a standard bearer for METAL! or PROG! and I can easily listen to Harry Styles and Sons of Apollo with no irony or no confusion.   My last five shows are Gene Simmons, Iron Maiden, Neal Morse, Shattered Fortress, and Night Ranger.   

I was at Night Ranger Friday - by myself (it was a fairground, and my wife and step-daughter were elsewhere in the fair) - and I can remember when Sing Me Away came on and some old fat guy (not me) and his girl looked over at me and we traded horns and cheesy guitar faces, but we were having a fucking BLAST.  That's what it's about.  Not this nonsense about what's a "real" review or not.   I don't give a flap about apps and wizardry and cheese.  Jack Blades is a walking block of cheddar as far as that goes, and yet there were 5,000 people (at least) rockin' out like it was a Beatles reunion.   I just want good, honest, heart-felt music.

Which is totally fine....  but, what if the artist is bring the "battle mentality" to you?  I decided after the split that I wasn't going to take sides, and I didn't.  I've followed DT and I've followed MP.  I went to shows of MP projects that I don't actually like (AM and TWD) just to see him play.  If this album came out without all of the nonsense that's been going on - I would do the same; I'd be disappointed because I don't like it (and was hoping to), but I'd do what I've always done.  Say "fair enough, I'm not going to like everything, maybe the next one will grab me."  I'd still buy it and still see them live.

Now?  No.  I'm not going to the show, or bringing anyone else with me.  MP is as close as he's ever been to completely losing me as a fan.  Not because I'm offended on behalf of JP or JR or JLB.  Or JM for that matter. But precisely because I hate this "battle mentality." If you just want to brag about how your album is the best thing ever, great - I might roll my eyes, but will probably ignore it.  Belittling fans and reviewers, engaging in personal attacks... it's all just too much.

Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ariich on October 02, 2017, 12:40:50 PM
I know for me, I've long grown out of the "battle" mentality of music.  I'm not a standard bearer for METAL! or PROG! and I can easily listen to Harry Styles and Sons of Apollo with no irony or no confusion.   My last five shows are Gene Simmons, Iron Maiden, Neal Morse, Shattered Fortress, and Night Ranger.   

I was at Night Ranger Friday - by myself (it was a fairground, and my wife and step-daughter were elsewhere in the fair) - and I can remember when Sing Me Away came on and some old fat guy (not me) and his girl looked over at me and we traded horns and cheesy guitar faces, but we were having a fucking BLAST.  That's what it's about.  Not this nonsense about what's a "real" review or not.   I don't give a flap about apps and wizardry and cheese.  Jack Blades is a walking block of cheddar as far as that goes, and yet there were 5,000 people (at least) rockin' out like it was a Beatles reunion.   I just want good, honest, heart-felt music.

Which is totally fine....  but, what if the artist is bring the "battle mentality" to you?  I decided after the split that I wasn't going to take sides, and I didn't.  I've followed DT and I've followed MP.  I went to shows of MP projects that I don't actually like (AM and TWD) just to see him play.  If this album came out without all of the nonsense that's been going on - I would do the same; I'd be disappointed because I don't like it (and was hoping to), but I'd do what I've always done.  Say "fair enough, I'm not going to like everything, maybe the next one will grab me."  I'd still buy it and still see them live.

Now?  No.  I'm not going to the show, or bringing anyone else with me.  MP is as close as he's ever been to completely losing me as a fan.  Not because I'm offended on behalf of JP or JR or JLB.  Or JM for that matter. But precisely because I hate this "battle mentality." If you just want to brag about how your album is the best thing ever, great - I might roll my eyes, but will probably ignore it.  Belittling fans and reviewers, engaging in personal attacks... it's all just too much.
Personally, I started out like you not taking sides, and have continued that way, and frankly I don't find it difficult at all.

You're right that the band (well, MP and DS) appear to be bringing the battle mentality, but how I respond to that is up to me. If someone baits me on here to the point where I launch into abuse and personal attacks, I'll still get banned (an unlikely scenario, but an apt analogy!).
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bosk1 on October 02, 2017, 12:43:32 PM
I know for me, I've long grown out of the "battle" mentality of music.  I'm not a standard bearer for METAL! or PROG! and I can easily listen to Harry Styles and Sons of Apollo with no irony or no confusion.   My last five shows are Gene Simmons, Iron Maiden, Neal Morse, Shattered Fortress, and Night Ranger.   

I was at Night Ranger Friday - by myself (it was a fairground, and my wife and step-daughter were elsewhere in the fair) - and I can remember when Sing Me Away came on and some old fat guy (not me) and his girl looked over at me and we traded horns and cheesy guitar faces, but we were having a fucking BLAST.  That's what it's about.  Not this nonsense about what's a "real" review or not.   I don't give a flap about apps and wizardry and cheese.  Jack Blades is a walking block of cheddar as far as that goes, and yet there were 5,000 people (at least) rockin' out like it was a Beatles reunion.   I just want good, honest, heart-felt music.

Which is totally fine....  but, what if the artist is bring the "battle mentality" to you?  I decided after the split that I wasn't going to take sides, and I didn't.  I've followed DT and I've followed MP.  I went to shows of MP projects that I don't actually like (AM and TWD) just to see him play.  If this album came out without all of the nonsense that's been going on - I would do the same; I'd be disappointed because I don't like it (and was hoping to), but I'd do what I've always done.  Say "fair enough, I'm not going to like everything, maybe the next one will grab me."  I'd still buy it and still see them live.

Now?  No.  I'm not going to the show, or bringing anyone else with me.  MP is as close as he's ever been to completely losing me as a fan.  Not because I'm offended on behalf of JP or JR or JLB.  Or JM for that matter. But precisely because I hate this "battle mentality." If you just want to brag about how your album is the best thing ever, great - I might roll my eyes, but will probably ignore it.  Belittling fans and reviewers, engaging in personal attacks... it's all just too much.

Great post, Lethean.  That about sums it up for me as well.  Other than "I went to shows of MP projects that I don't actually like (AM and TWD)" (I didn't) and "I don't like it [the present SoA album]" (based on what I've heard so far, I do like it), that post could have been written by me.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Stadler on October 02, 2017, 12:51:24 PM
How exactly do you eagerly await something and yet not anticipate it at the same time?   Isn't that like taking a bath and not getting wet?

I have been eagerly waiting for you to explain that analogy for the past few years now.

Huh?  It's a fresh one from me, I think. 

If you "eagerly await" something, you are by definition anticipating it.
If you "take a bath" you are by definition getting wet.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bill1971 on October 02, 2017, 02:47:08 PM
How exactly do you eagerly await something and yet not anticipate it at the same time?   Isn't that like taking a bath and not getting wet?

I have been eagerly waiting for you to explain that analogy for the past few years now.

Huh?  It's a fresh one from me, I think. 

If you "eagerly await" something, you are by definition anticipating it.
If you "take a bath" you are by definition getting wet.

I know I was just trying to show an example of anticipating something I didn't know about. :)
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Anxiety35 on October 02, 2017, 03:26:53 PM
It would have been better all around if the guys would have just announced the band, released the tracks for promo purposes, and done interviews about the music while refraining from comments about their stints in DT or anything DT related. I get the fact that DT is what makes them well known (MP much more than DS) and DT is the connection between MP & DS. They could have kept it simple and said something to the fact of DT being a great band and they enjoyed their time in the band, etc. Kept it somewhat "politically correct" while not potentially burning any bridges or causing unnecessary friction.

Why so much emphasis on the past? It's the past. Can't go back there. All you can do is focus on today and what's to come.

Notice how we've heard absolutely nothing from the DT camp regarding SOA, MP or DS? In my opinion, that's the more professional move.

Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Dave_Manchester on October 02, 2017, 03:31:58 PM

For example, I remember that someone asked him a while ago if the TSF shows were going to be recorded for a future release, since he, and many many many others, myself included, didn't live anywhere near the places/countries that had been announced for the tour. Mike replied with something along the lines of "This is a once in a lifetime event, and if you were a true fan, you would do whatever it takes to catch one of these shows" (Not his exact words).
Some people just can't afford to travel to another country or get in a cruise for a few days just to see Mike (or any other artist) perform a show, and that doesn't mean they aren't true fans or anything like that. It's just silly.

Yeah, there was one occasion where a South American fan wrote to him a message saying how much he loved him and then expressed regret that he wasn't touring in his country. MP's word-for-word response to the guy: "You are aware there's this invention called an airplane, right?" I was tempted to point out to him that there's this other invention called 'money' and not everybody has a lot of it, but it was too late, the Emergency Response Unit of the MP Warriors had already set about publicly humiliating the guy.


A word on a comment Stadler wrote, about whether or not Mike and/or Marlene are savvy to how these things play out: I once had a nice exchange with his sister Sam over at his Forum. It was in the aftermath of his Facebook rant 'calling out' the London hospital for prioritising all those fucking malingering British taxpayers instead of famous American drummers with gigs to get to. Some guy politely and respectfully responded to him on Facebook, and MP doubled down, once again siccing the Warriors on him. In the relevant thread on his Forum, Sam popped in to defend her brother, which I actually thought was a cool thing to do. She said that she herself sometimes tries to persuade Mike to be less impulsive on the internet, and that she's lost her temper with him now and again over how he occasionally reacts. So I don't know how Marlene feels about his outbursts, but his sister for one isn't entirely down with it.

For what it's worth (which is nothing of course, but I'm absolutely positive MP reads this thread, so just so he knows), I'm not financially supporting this band because of Derek's 'burger flipper' comment; not because of anything MP has done or said regarding this project.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ganpondorodf on October 02, 2017, 03:47:16 PM
I think someone needs to sit MP down and explain to him that although he's a professional musician, he's not a rock star. He's a million miles from being a household name and can't get away with being a jerk to his fans in the same way, say, Morrissey can.

Anyway, anytime I read 'Coming Home' it just puts Rock You Like a Hurricane in my head
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bill1971 on October 02, 2017, 04:39:15 PM
It would have been better all around if the guys would have just announced the band, released the tracks for promo purposes, and done interviews about the music while refraining from comments about their stints in DT or anything DT related. I get the fact that DT is what makes them well known (MP much more than DS) and DT is the connection between MP & DS. They could have kept it simple and said something to the fact of DT being a great band and they enjoyed their time in the band, etc. Kept it somewhat "politically correct" while not potentially burning any bridges or causing unnecessary friction.

Why so much emphasis on the past? It's the past. Can't go back there. All you can do is focus on today and what's to come.

Notice how we've heard absolutely nothing from the DT camp regarding SOA, MP or DS? In my opinion, that's the more professional move.

I doubt we will hear anything from DT, they all seem happy where they are in life.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: rumborak on October 02, 2017, 05:30:37 PM
Luckily, LUCKILY, DT is smart enough to stay away from this sort of shit. Granted, they have a whole lot of problems in their own camp to deal with, but they definitely know that acknowledging any of this stuff means lowering yourself.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: noxon on October 02, 2017, 05:35:00 PM
https://metalwani.com/2017/10/review-sons-of-apollo-psychotic-symphony.html

This review is insulting to Derek.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: SwedishGoose on October 02, 2017, 05:43:59 PM
https://metalwani.com/2017/10/review-sons-of-apollo-psychotic-symphony.html

This review is insulting to Derek.

Anything less than a 9 out of 10 would be insulting to him...

If they feel it is soo strong then why can't they let rhe music do the talking.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: KevShmev on October 02, 2017, 06:16:16 PM
To some degree, the way I perceive it, is that the two seem to view us as "musical morons" who will eat up anything that has odd meters and fast solos in it. Because, how can we have taste if we still listen to that unspeakable band that MP was once a part of?!
So, DS and MP form a band to pander to the likes us, but because neither of them even is into prog all that much these days, it becomes a shoehorned effort. Us musical morons pick up on that, but between their incredulity and fragile egos, they quickly conclude that we are indeed the morons they took us for, only for a different reason.
Tldr: "We pandered to morons but they didn't like it, which shows they're even more moronic than we thought."

I cannot disagree with this in any way whatsoever.



I was at Night Ranger Friday - by myself (it was a fairground, and my wife and step-daughter were elsewhere in the fair) - and I can remember when Sing Me Away came on and some old fat guy (not me) and his girl looked over at me and we traded horns and cheesy guitar faces, but we were having a fucking BLAST.  That's what it's about.  Not this nonsense about what's a "real" review or not.   I don't give a flap about apps and wizardry and cheese.  Jack Blades is a walking block of cheddar as far as that goes, and yet there were 5,000 people (at least) rockin' out like it was a Beatles reunion.   I just want good, honest, heart-felt music.

What was the encore?  :metal
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: The Walrus on October 02, 2017, 06:16:28 PM
So I hate to draw parallels but this situation very eerily reminds me of Timo Tolkki's Symfonia back in 2011. For those who don't know, this supergroup (Symfonia) was supposed to blow the goddamn roof off the power metal house. This was hyped to be unlike anything else, and I and plenty of other people were soiling themselves over the lineup: 2 ex-Stratovarius members (Timo Tolkki and Jari Kainulainen), Mikko Harkin on keys, Andre Matos singing, and Uli Kusch drumming. Unbelievable lineup, amazing chops, and a well respected songwriter in Tolkki. How could this be bad? They hyped the living daylights out of this thing, Tolkki talking about a contract for 4 albums and world tour, band interviews, extremely polished hype videos with flashy hi def graphics, reviews praising the unbelievable power metal pyrotechnics on the album...

... and it completely fell flat. One album. A very small tour. Everyone got tired of playing small crowds, they barely sold copies (I don't have numbers, but I was told it was not a pleasant amount despite all the hype and relatively big names attached to it). Worst of all - the music was nothing more than a Stratovarius clone. You could've replaced Andre with Timo and it would've been a B-rate Stratovarius album. And, on top of that giant shit sundae, apparently there was tension in the band because of the behavior of two of the members. Huh.

I fear the same for Sons of Apollo, but it's only made worse by Derek and Mike not only pushing people away from buying the album or going to gigs, but literally making them lose longtime fans like myself. Now, lots of people don't give a shit. That's totally fine and I hope they enjoy the music, and I honestly hope it isn't disappointing for them. But for people like me and others to whom this stuff kinda matters (for whatever reasons), it's sorely disappointing
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on October 02, 2017, 06:25:05 PM
It would have been better all around if the guys would have just announced the band, released the tracks for promo purposes, and done interviews about the music while refraining from comments about their stints in DT or anything DT related. I get the fact that DT is what makes them well known (MP much more than DS) and DT is the connection between MP & DS. They could have kept it simple and said something to the fact of DT being a great band and they enjoyed their time in the band, etc. Kept it somewhat "politically correct" while not potentially burning any bridges or causing unnecessary friction.

Why so much emphasis on the past? It's the past. Can't go back there. All you can do is focus on today and what's to come.

Notice how we've heard absolutely nothing from the DT camp regarding SOA, MP or DS? In my opinion, that's the more professional move.

What's interesting is in interviews they do say the "politically correct" thing.  For example, in the Shattered Fortress interview series on youtube, MP comes off very well and says all the right things about DT.  However, when it comes to twitter, we see a different side.  It would be nice if they stayed "politically correct" even on twitter. I don't see much of a difference since both are public representations of themselves.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: KevShmev on October 02, 2017, 06:27:22 PM


What's interesting is in interviews they do say the "politically correct" thing.  For example, in the Shattered Fortress interview series on youtube, MP comes off very well and says all the right things about DT.  However, when it comes to twitter, we see a different side.  It would be nice if they stayed "politically correct" even on twitter. I don't see much of a difference since both are public representations of themselves.

In interviews, you can almost always tell that he is doing everything he can to not go off, because he knows how poorly it would come off, especially with having the visuals of him saying this or that, but when it comes to social media, where most people in general have difficulty self-censoring themselves, he gets major diarrhea of the mouth.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Spiritus on October 02, 2017, 06:51:00 PM
Yup, I agree with this assessment. And I think the other fatal tragedy here is that MP doesn't seem to "get" who his real fans are. Some of the people who wish he'd stop with this "with us or against us" attitude? The very same who attend his special TSF shows, his cruises, buy his albums and box sets, etc. In a way, it's starting to feel like the inverse of Never Enough has become true: it's no longer that fans are ungrateful for MP, it's that no fan can ever live up to the fanboy that MP wants. It's not enough to spend hundreds of dollars per year seeing the man's various projects; all Mike knows or cares about is that one time you gave said one of his projects wasn't your cup of tea.

That's a very interesting point, Skeever. I think you're right. Mike has replied with sarcastic/satirical comments and tweets to fans that asked him something on social media and he answered something like "If you were a true fan, you WOULD know or do this or that".

For example, I remember that someone asked him a while ago if the TSF shows were going to be recorded for a future release, since he, and many many many others, myself included, didn't live anywhere near the places/countries that had been announced for the tour. Mike replied with something along the lines of "This is a once in a lifetime event, and if you were a true fan, you would do whatever it takes to catch one of these shows" (Not his exact words).
Some people just can't afford to travel to another country or get in a cruise for a few days just to see Mike (or any other artist) perform a show, and that doesn't mean they aren't true fans or anything like that. It's just silly.

I agree with this.  I consider myself a "true fan" in the knowledge sense of the word, and the dedication sense of the word, but I missed a LOT of the epic shows in the New York area (Score, Radio City) because I was living in the south, with a newborn, working full time and going to school at night.  It just wasn't in the cards to drop everything, spend money I didn't have, to cavort to NYC to see a concert.   And I refuse to acknowledge that that somehow dictates what level "fan" I am.

I think we're basically saying the same thing, but I would just choose to word it a bit differently:  For me, if it is not in the budget or if I don't think it is in the best interest of my family to spend the time or money to go to a show, the show has to take a back seat to that.  My family comes first, and since stewardship of my time and money belongs to my family just as much as me individually, I'm going to sometimes have to prioritize in a way that causes me to miss some things.  If that makes me less than a "true fan," then I'm just not a "true fan."  And I'm okay with that.

You should sacrifice your life, neglect your kids and wife and better see Mike at these shows or you are not a true fan.
I know, I know,  but those lyrics seems fitting, ironic? Hypocritical. Whichever.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Lethean on October 02, 2017, 07:50:25 PM


Yeah, there was one occasion where a South American fan wrote to him a message saying how much he loved him and then expressed regret that he wasn't touring in his country. MP's word-for-word response to the guy: "You are aware there's this invention called an airplane, right?" I was tempted to point out to him that there's this other invention called 'money' and not everybody has a lot of it, but it was too late, the Emergency Response Unit of the MP Warriors had already set about publicly humiliating the guy.

Really? :(  That's completely awful.  I just don't understand that; shouldn't he feel happy that he has fans that want to see him live?  Even if they can't afford it?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Lethean on October 02, 2017, 07:56:43 PM
I know for me, I've long grown out of the "battle" mentality of music.  I'm not a standard bearer for METAL! or PROG! and I can easily listen to Harry Styles and Sons of Apollo with no irony or no confusion.   My last five shows are Gene Simmons, Iron Maiden, Neal Morse, Shattered Fortress, and Night Ranger.   

I was at Night Ranger Friday - by myself (it was a fairground, and my wife and step-daughter were elsewhere in the fair) - and I can remember when Sing Me Away came on and some old fat guy (not me) and his girl looked over at me and we traded horns and cheesy guitar faces, but we were having a fucking BLAST.  That's what it's about.  Not this nonsense about what's a "real" review or not.   I don't give a flap about apps and wizardry and cheese.  Jack Blades is a walking block of cheddar as far as that goes, and yet there were 5,000 people (at least) rockin' out like it was a Beatles reunion.   I just want good, honest, heart-felt music.

Which is totally fine....  but, what if the artist is bring the "battle mentality" to you?  I decided after the split that I wasn't going to take sides, and I didn't.  I've followed DT and I've followed MP.  I went to shows of MP projects that I don't actually like (AM and TWD) just to see him play.  If this album came out without all of the nonsense that's been going on - I would do the same; I'd be disappointed because I don't like it (and was hoping to), but I'd do what I've always done.  Say "fair enough, I'm not going to like everything, maybe the next one will grab me."  I'd still buy it and still see them live.

Now?  No.  I'm not going to the show, or bringing anyone else with me.  MP is as close as he's ever been to completely losing me as a fan.  Not because I'm offended on behalf of JP or JR or JLB.  Or JM for that matter. But precisely because I hate this "battle mentality." If you just want to brag about how your album is the best thing ever, great - I might roll my eyes, but will probably ignore it.  Belittling fans and reviewers, engaging in personal attacks... it's all just too much.
Personally, I started out like you not taking sides, and have continued that way, and frankly I don't find it difficult at all.

You're right that the band (well, MP and DS) appear to be bringing the battle mentality, but how I respond to that is up to me. If someone baits me on here to the point where I launch into abuse and personal attacks, I'll still get banned (an unlikely scenario, but an apt analogy!).

Completely agreed. I have no intention of personal attacks against Mike or anyone else. I suppose there may come a day when I say something unfortunate, but I try not to.  Or at least, I try to just say those things to myself and then post later. :)
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ganpondorodf on October 02, 2017, 09:14:30 PM


Yeah, there was one occasion where a South American fan wrote to him a message saying how much he loved him and then expressed regret that he wasn't touring in his country. MP's word-for-word response to the guy: "You are aware there's this invention called an airplane, right?" I was tempted to point out to him that there's this other invention called 'money' and not everybody has a lot of it, but it was too late, the Emergency Response Unit of the MP Warriors had already set about publicly humiliating the guy.

Really? :(  That's completely awful.  I just don't understand that; shouldn't he feel happy that he has fans that want to see him live?  Even if they can't afford it?

I think he's just totally lost touch.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: gzarruk on October 02, 2017, 09:19:01 PM
Yeah, there was one occasion where a South American fan wrote to him a message saying how much he loved him and then expressed regret that he wasn't touring in his country. MP's word-for-word response to the guy: "You are aware there's this invention called an airplane, right?" I was tempted to point out to him that there's this other invention called 'money' and not everybody has a lot of it, but it was too late, the Emergency Response Unit of the MP Warriors had already set about publicly humiliating the guy.

Yeah, I remember that one too...  :facepalm:
He expects people to do whatever it takes to follow him, but, if you don't, he calls you a troll or treats you like you're worth nothing.

Luckily, LUCKILY, DT is smart enough to stay away from this sort of shit. Granted, they have a whole lot of problems in their own camp to deal with, but they definitely know that acknowledging any of this stuff means lowering yourself.

Rumbo, could you elaborate more on the bolded part? I don't necessarily disagree with you on that, but I'd really like to know what are you talking about, they seem to be having a blast lately.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ganpondorodf on October 02, 2017, 09:22:18 PM
And yeah that 'MP Warriors' thing is hilarious and pathetic
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: MirrorMask on October 03, 2017, 02:37:27 AM
Luckily, LUCKILY, DT is smart enough to stay away from this sort of shit. Granted, they have a whole lot of problems in their own camp to deal with, but they definitely know that acknowledging any of this stuff means lowering yourself.

Rumbo, could you elaborate more on the bolded part? I don't necessarily disagree with you on that, but I'd really like to know what are you talking about, they seem to be having a blast lately.

I'm curious too, the only problems I can think of are a series of misunderstanding with the venues for some US dates, and not being allowed to play at an indonesian temple.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Sycsa on October 03, 2017, 02:57:28 AM
Luckily, LUCKILY, DT is smart enough to stay away from this sort of shit. Granted, they have a whole lot of problems in their own camp to deal with, but they definitely know that acknowledging any of this stuff means lowering yourself.

Rumbo, could you elaborate more on the bolded part? I don't necessarily disagree with you on that, but I'd really like to know what are you talking about, they seem to be having a blast lately.


I'm curious too, the only problems I can think of are a series of misunderstanding with the venues for some US dates, and not being allowed to play at an indonesian temple.
Mangini seemed pretty dissatisfied with his position in DT in recent interviews (not being included in the songwriting and such), plus, as far as I know, the Astonishing tour was a financial flop. It's possible that they're doing such an extensive tour, focusing heavily on their biggest hits (I&W, ACoS), to recuperate some of that loss. I don't imagine that it's too much fun doing multiple strings of consecutive nights, and it took its toll on James' voice as well.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: MirrorMask on October 03, 2017, 03:17:02 AM
I think they're on record saying how they wanted the I&W celebreation relatively short, and that, understandably, they got floode by promoter requests worldwide. I assume they're touring this lot because they're being asked and offered to, not because "Damn people don't like The Astonishing, let's remind them we wrote also Metropolis and A Change of Seasons".
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Logain Ablar on October 03, 2017, 03:25:19 AM
Mangini seemed pretty dissatisfied with his position in DT in recent interviews (not being included in the songwriting and such), plus, as far as I know, the Astonishing tour was a financial flop. It's possible that they're doing such an extensive tour, focusing heavily on their biggest hits (I&W, ACoS), to recuperate some of that loss. I don't imagine that it's too much fun doing multiple strings of consecutive nights, and it took its toll on James' voice as well.

Do we know for sure that it lost money, or maybe just that it didn't make the money that was hoped for, with venues that weren't completely sold out?

BTW - this thread is a great lurk, but personally I don't like this type of trash talk between musicians. It's self defeating. Even with the drama aside, I haven't liked the two tracks released enough to make me want to buy the album. It was the same with the Winery Dogs - that spark of interest just isn't there for me.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: noxon on October 03, 2017, 05:51:04 AM
The Astonishing was not s commercial flop for the band - but noe did it bring in a lot of money. The contracts with the promoter guarantuee the band their asking price, it’s almost always the promoter that bears the risk of the concert. There may be a bonus agreement which cuts the initial price in hopes of greater shares of the profit should they sell very well, but it’s not the standard (for DT at least).
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Peter Mc on October 03, 2017, 06:33:42 AM
Luckily, LUCKILY, DT is smart enough to stay away from this sort of shit. Granted, they have a whole lot of problems in their own camp to deal with, but they definitely know that acknowledging any of this stuff means lowering yourself.

Rumbo, could you elaborate more on the bolded part? I don't necessarily disagree with you on that, but I'd really like to know what are you talking about, they seem to be having a blast lately.


I'm curious too, the only problems I can think of are a series of misunderstanding with the venues for some US dates, and not being allowed to play at an indonesian temple.
Mangini seemed pretty dissatisfied with his position in DT in recent interviews (not being included in the songwriting and such), plus, as far as I know, the Astonishing tour was a financial flop. It's possible that they're doing such an extensive tour, focusing heavily on their biggest hits (I&W, ACoS), to recuperate some of that loss. I don't imagine that it's too much fun doing multiple strings of consecutive nights, and it took its toll on James' voice as well.

Don't DT get paid a flat rate by the promoter whether they sell lots of tickets or not, can't see the tour being a flop for them financially.  The show I saw at the London Palladium looked pretty full and they were doing two nights.  Attendance may not have been all they hoped at some of the shows but that's not their problem, it's the promoter who loses money.  It may mean of course that the promoter thinks twice before booking them for so many shows again or won't pay the same money next time around.

They all seem fairly happy to me, maybe Mangini would like to be more involved but TA was a one off Petrucci project and not a standard DT album.  I'm sure he will be more involved this time around as he was with DT12.  Glad they haven't got involved in all the "banter" with DS/MP as they are far too classy to do so.  Their albums sell themselves based upon one of the most stellar, consistent back catalogues in rock/metal history.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: RoeDent on October 03, 2017, 06:37:47 AM
This whole promo saga has got to the point where I'm questioning whether I will buy anything from Portnoy ever again. It's put a really really sour taste in my mouth. It's obvious that there is a divide, nay, a chasm, between DT fans who stuck with the band (and have been treated to three of their most wonderful albums), and those who jumped ship when MP left. And MP and DS are only highlighting, and widening, that chasm now with their "us vs them" attitude.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: jcmoorehead on October 03, 2017, 06:59:48 AM
I'm not sure if I'll be taking the stance of never buying anything from Portnoy again because of this, it depends on the project I guess and the attitudes of it. I'll probably still buy Neal Morse stuff as an example. (Although I've been saying I'd get Simultude for about a year now and still not gotten around to it  :P )

I am however one of the people who is going to be avoiding this particular project, I usually try to not let the attitudes of the artists dissuade me but the way Derek/Mike have been, especially with them now starting to have a go at the fans is really off-putting.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Stadler on October 03, 2017, 07:22:15 AM
Luckily, LUCKILY, DT is smart enough to stay away from this sort of shit. Granted, they have a whole lot of problems in their own camp to deal with, but they definitely know that acknowledging any of this stuff means lowering yourself.

Or they just don't have an album to push at this point.   It's a really tough thing for me to read too much into "silence".  "Silence" is too easily "anything we want it to be".    For me, no indication of how they feel is exactly that:  no indication.    They could be pissed off, they could be laughing their asses off, they could be having a heart-to-heart with their management about how to move forward... who knows?    It's the worst sort of speculation. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Stadler on October 03, 2017, 07:23:23 AM


I was at Night Ranger Friday - by myself (it was a fairground, and my wife and step-daughter were elsewhere in the fair) - and I can remember when Sing Me Away came on and some old fat guy (not me) and his girl looked over at me and we traded horns and cheesy guitar faces, but we were having a fucking BLAST.  That's what it's about.  Not this nonsense about what's a "real" review or not.   I don't give a flap about apps and wizardry and cheese.  Jack Blades is a walking block of cheddar as far as that goes, and yet there were 5,000 people (at least) rockin' out like it was a Beatles reunion.   I just want good, honest, heart-felt music.

What was the encore?  :metal

Sister Christian
(You Can Still) Rock In America
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: TAC on October 03, 2017, 07:27:05 AM
Luckily, LUCKILY, DT is smart enough to stay away from this sort of shit. Granted, they have a whole lot of problems in their own camp to deal with, but they definitely know that acknowledging any of this stuff means lowering yourself.

Or they just don't have an album to push at this point.   It's a really tough thing for me to read too much into "silence".  "Silence" is too easily "anything we want it to be".    For me, no indication of how they feel is exactly that:  no indication.    They could be pissed off, they could be laughing their asses off, they could be having a heart-to-heart with their management about how to move forward... who knows?    It's the worst sort of speculation.

The thing is, even if they said anything, they'd say NOTHING. The only chance for honesty/a slip would be from James.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Stadler on October 03, 2017, 07:30:08 AM
They all seem fairly happy to me, maybe Mangini would like to be more involved but TA was a one off Petrucci project and not a standard DT album.  I'm sure he will be more involved this time around as he was with DT12.  Glad they haven't got involved in all the "banter" with DS/MP as they are far too classy to do so.  Their albums sell themselves based upon one of the most stellar, consistent back catalogues in rock/metal history.

Do we know any of this or is it speculation?   I admit I didn't follow it as closely as I perhaps should have (DT isn't "that band" for me anymore) but I never got the sense that it was a "one-off Petrucci project".  I know Jordan took great pride in his contributions to the record.   There is also little to indicate that he will again be "more involved this time". 

As for the last sentence, I'd be very surprised.   VERY surprised.  This is not the Maiden or Rush catalogue, after all.   
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on October 03, 2017, 07:33:41 AM
I'd say TA was JP's baby, but not a JP solo project by any means. JR was very much involved.  However, it was pretty much those two.  I'd say it's almost a guarantee that the other members are more involved in the next album, although that is just speculation on my part.  MM has expressed publicly that he wants to be more involved, I think it would be smart on DT's part to hear his ideas out at least.  I'd love some more JM lyrics as well. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: SjundeInseglet on October 03, 2017, 09:09:34 AM
Luckily, LUCKILY, DT is smart enough to stay away from this sort of shit. Granted, they have a whole lot of problems in their own camp to deal with, but they definitely know that acknowledging any of this stuff means lowering yourself.

Or they just don't have an album to push at this point.   It's a really tough thing for me to read too much into "silence".  "Silence" is too easily "anything we want it to be".    For me, no indication of how they feel is exactly that:  no indication.    They could be pissed off, they could be laughing their asses off, they could be having a heart-to-heart with their management about how to move forward... who knows?    It's the worst sort of speculation.

Except they never used to "us vs. them" approach to sell any of their post-breakup records. Not to mention that the comments about the split from the DT side have been few and far between since 2011 or so.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: gzarruk on October 03, 2017, 09:18:50 AM
They all seem fairly happy to me, maybe Mangini would like to be more involved but TA was a one off Petrucci project and not a standard DT album.  I'm sure he will be more involved this time around as he was with DT12.  Glad they haven't got involved in all the "banter" with DS/MP as they are far too classy to do so.  Their albums sell themselves based upon one of the most stellar, consistent back catalogues in rock/metal history.

Do we know any of this or is it speculation?   I admit I didn't follow it as closely as I perhaps should have (DT isn't "that band" for me anymore) but I never got the sense that it was a "one-off Petrucci project".  I know Jordan took great pride in his contributions to the record.   There is also little to indicate that he will again be "more involved this time". 

Mangini has said multiple times on his social media/web that he's going to be much more involved on the next album. I just hope it actually happens.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bosk1 on October 03, 2017, 09:35:45 AM
They all seem fairly happy to me, maybe Mangini would like to be more involved but TA was a one off Petrucci project and not a standard DT album.  I'm sure he will be more involved this time around as he was with DT12.  Glad they haven't got involved in all the "banter" with DS/MP as they are far too classy to do so.  Their albums sell themselves based upon one of the most stellar, consistent back catalogues in rock/metal history.

Do we know any of this or is it speculation?

No, we pretty much know it.

As for the last sentence, I'd be very surprised.   VERY surprised.  This is not the Maiden or Rush catalogue, after all.   

Exactly.  Hence why it is both a "stellar" AND "consistent" back catalog.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: TAC on October 03, 2017, 09:52:11 AM
Did everybody see what Bosk just did there?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Stadler on October 03, 2017, 10:03:30 AM
Pretty impressive actually. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Lethean on October 03, 2017, 10:18:18 AM
:)  Nicely done.  Though I'd put Rush in with DT on the stellar and consistent back catalog.  I know not everyone likes their whole discography, but everyone disagrees (vehemently at times) about which ones are the weak ones.  :)  I know at least Stadler has my back on Grace Under Pressure being a *great* album...
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: the keyboard wizard on October 03, 2017, 10:21:55 AM
Here is the interview. Lots of info and insights

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v7exJyAgjhk
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Sycsa on October 04, 2017, 02:24:27 AM
Here is the interview. Lots of info and insights

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v7exJyAgjhk
Very cool, interesting all around!

Some standout tidbits for me:
- The SoA logo/album cover is also a reverse Armenian coat of arms (where the eagle and the lion face opposite directions)
- MP actually said that he's "coming home" by playing prog metal again, confirming my theory about the lyrics he sang in Coming Home (later Derek calls it the MP theme song)
- They'll play DT covers live
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: the keyboard wizard on October 04, 2017, 03:14:09 AM
And I bet they will play Lines in the Sand.
Derek admitted in another interview that I did : https://blog.yourmajesty.net/2017/08/29/interview-in-english-derek-sherinian/  that I wanted to play Lines in the Sand and Hell's Kitchen (which makes sense).
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Sycsa on October 04, 2017, 03:33:51 AM
And I bet they will play Lines in the Sand.
Derek admitted in another interview that I did : https://blog.yourmajesty.net/2017/08/29/interview-in-english-derek-sherinian/  that I wanted to play Lines in the Sand and Hell's Kitchen (which makes sense).
Yeah, Lines in the Sand is an obvious choice, it will showcase Derek & Mike in the intro. Bumblefoot has a nice high singing voice, he can sing James' parts, while Soto sings the more raspy parts of Doug Pinnick. That chorus will come out great.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: noxon on October 04, 2017, 04:52:55 AM
Something that struck me; MP is coming off "high" on the adrenaline from the Shattered Fortress shows and wants that type of energy again (which he didnt get as much from any of the other bands hes been trying out since 2010). But the nostalgia factor of Shattered Fortress was 90% of why the audience reacted as they did. FII does not have that same nostalgia factor, and the rest is all new tracks from a new album. I dont think the audience will have NEAR the same energy as they had at the SF shows.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: The Walrus on October 04, 2017, 04:56:52 AM
... so they've been (well, mostly Derek) been taking jabs at DT but they're going to play DT music live? Well... that's interesting... not sure why they don't play some of Derek's solo stuff instead, show us what the #KingofKeys is all about
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ErHaO on October 04, 2017, 05:23:43 AM
Something that struck me; MP is coming off "high" on the adrenaline from the Shattered Fortress shows and wants that type of energy again (which he didnt get as much from any of the other bands hes been trying out since 2010). But the nostalgia factor of Shattered Fortress was 90% of why the audience reacted as they did. FII does not have that same nostalgia factor, and the rest is all new tracks from a new album. I dont think the audience will have NEAR the same energy as they had at the SF shows.

Hmm, I don't know. I have seen him recently with the Neal Morse Band and the energy of those shows was as high as any great/fantastic concert I have seen. Sure, SF shows had special value for many DT fans, but great entertainers and a good crowd can come a very long way.

But there are possibly cultural differences as well. For example, I recently watched some Sonata Arctica clips of them playing in South America, and the crowd was really into their newest songs (and loudly singing along), whereas in homecountry Finland the crowd is (relatively) silent for almost any song, including classics.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Skeever on October 04, 2017, 06:09:54 AM
- They'll play DT covers live

Are you kidding? I thought The Shattered Fortress was the "last time ever".
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: rumborak on October 04, 2017, 06:16:12 AM
They could play Anna Lee, which DS put as an instrumental on one of his solo albums. That way they play a DT and tune, and not.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: noxon on October 04, 2017, 06:20:25 AM

Hmm, I don't know. I have seen him recently with the Neal Morse Band and the energy of those shows was as high as any great/fantastic concert I have seen. Sure, SF shows had special value for many DT fans, but great entertainers and a good crowd can come a very long way. .

The energi thing isnt something im assuming, it comes from MP interviews. ITS something he has commented on.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Peter Mc on October 04, 2017, 06:32:47 AM
They all seem fairly happy to me, maybe Mangini would like to be more involved but TA was a one off Petrucci project and not a standard DT album.  I'm sure he will be more involved this time around as he was with DT12.  Glad they haven't got involved in all the "banter" with DS/MP as they are far too classy to do so.  Their albums sell themselves based upon one of the most stellar, consistent back catalogues in rock/metal history.

Do we know any of this or is it speculation?   I admit I didn't follow it as closely as I perhaps should have (DT isn't "that band" for me anymore) but I never got the sense that it was a "one-off Petrucci project".  I know Jordan took great pride in his contributions to the record.   There is also little to indicate that he will again be "more involved this time". 

As for the last sentence, I'd be very surprised.   VERY surprised.  This is not the Maiden or Rush catalogue, after all.

I'm not suggesting that Jordan did not contribute but this whole project (including whatever spin offs have happened or are intended) was Petrucci's vision.  He wrote the story and all the lyrics, he shut out the rest of the band apart from his writing partner Jordan when composing the music as he needed that focus as it had to be meticulously planned out.  It was not a flat out solo project but it was a one off in the way the album came together, very different to any of their other albums and, from stuff I've read, we will be going back to a more standard DT album next time around.

Maiden and Rush both also have excellent back catalogues, I agree, although there are one of two duds in the Maiden catalogue (Virtual XI and No Prayer For The Dying spring to mind).  Not many bands though have 13 albums released and not a bad one in there.  Sure there are some I like more than others but there's not one, I would say is a bad album or was just phoned in.  Maiden, Rush and DT are the exception rather than the rule.

Anyway I digress, this is not the DT thread, it is the SOA thread.  I will still give this a listen when it comes out despite the circus around it but it won't be a blind purchase like MP projects used to be.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: the keyboard wizard on October 04, 2017, 06:49:57 AM
They could play Anna Lee, which DS put as an instrumental on one of his solo albums. That way they play a DT and tune, and not.
Same interview : https://blog.yourmajesty.net/2017/08/29/interview-in-english-derek-sherinian/ Derek has no interest in playing Anna Lee.

@Skeever : Mike said it was the last time he would assemble a band to play only DT songs. And they are not going to play songs from SFAM, TOT or other albums recorded without Derek.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: gzarruk on October 04, 2017, 07:29:31 AM
And I bet they will play Lines in the Sand.
Derek admitted in another interview that I did : https://blog.yourmajesty.net/2017/08/29/interview-in-english-derek-sherinian/  that I wanted to play Lines in the Sand and Hell's Kitchen (which makes sense).
Yeah, Lines in the Sand is an obvious choice, it will showcase Derek & Mike in the intro. Bumblefoot has a nice high singing voice, he can sing James' parts, while Soto sings the more raspy parts of Doug Pinnick. That chorus will come out great.

I think playing BMS/HK/LITS is the way to go. BMS has MP lyrics (and he loves to play the DT songs he wrote the lyrics for) and has a great Derek keyboard solo. Also, these 3 songs flow so well toghether, that, imo, it's best to play them back to back.

As for using Bumblefoot's voice, I don't think they'll use it too much, maybe not at all. Don't ask me why...
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: RodrigoAltaf on October 04, 2017, 07:30:30 AM
The coolest thing about the latest interview is the fact that there's a nugget in one of the SOA songs that stemmed from the Scenes From a Memory demo.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: RodrigoAltaf on October 04, 2017, 07:35:29 AM
And I bet they will play Lines in the Sand.
Derek admitted in another interview that I did : https://blog.yourmajesty.net/2017/08/29/interview-in-english-derek-sherinian/  that I wanted to play Lines in the Sand and Hell's Kitchen (which makes sense).
Yeah, Lines in the Sand is an obvious choice, it will showcase Derek & Mike in the intro. Bumblefoot has a nice high singing voice, he can sing James' parts, while Soto sings the more raspy parts of Doug Pinnick. That chorus will come out great.

Ever since they played LITS with PSMS I kept imagining how that song would sound with a different style of singing. It think it has the potential of sounding amazing live. Only a handful of weeks until we find out!!!
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: noxon on October 04, 2017, 07:45:12 AM
The coolest thing about the latest interview is the fact that there's a nugget in one of the SOA songs that stemmed from the Scenes From a Memory demo.

I dont think thats what they said at all... More that they wanted to, to see if fans wouldve recognized it.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: the keyboard wizard on October 04, 2017, 07:45:59 AM
The coolest thing about the latest interview is the fact that there's a nugget in one of the SOA songs that stemmed from the Scenes From a Memory demo.
No there is not. It's a joke they could do for the next album.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Stadler on October 04, 2017, 07:46:03 AM
And I bet they will play Lines in the Sand.
Derek admitted in another interview that I did : https://blog.yourmajesty.net/2017/08/29/interview-in-english-derek-sherinian/  that I wanted to play Lines in the Sand and Hell's Kitchen (which makes sense).
Yeah, Lines in the Sand is an obvious choice, it will showcase Derek & Mike in the intro. Bumblefoot has a nice high singing voice, he can sing James' parts, while Soto sings the more raspy parts of Doug Pinnick. That chorus will come out great.

Or they could just skip the Doug Pinnick parts altogether, since they absolutely ruin the song for me.  :)  :)  :)  :)  :)
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Stadler on October 04, 2017, 07:51:22 AM
Maiden and Rush both also have excellent back catalogues, I agree, although there are one of two duds in the Maiden catalogue (Virtual XI and No Prayer For The Dying spring to mind).  Not many bands though have 13 albums released and not a bad one in there.  Sure there are some I like more than others but there's not one, I would say is a bad album or was just phoned in.  Maiden, Rush and DT are the exception rather than the rule.

Thanks for the clarification re: The Astonishing.    I appreciate that.

As for catalogues, I suppose I'll give you that.   I mean, I think there are debates to be had; is SC a "dud?  Some seem to think so (I don't).  Is p/g a dud?  I certainly think so, but others don't.   I think the thing I was going for was Rush as a reputation - I think well deserved - for having one of the most consistent catalogues in rock history.   They also came from a different time, having been given a three- album head start on their career, and having had a career where they actually evolve, meaningfully.   I don't like p/g at all, but I can't honestly say it's so far out of whack that it ruins the catalogue.  It's certainly a reasonable avenue of exploration from Signals and a logical precursor to Power Windows.   I also think Virtual IX is quintessentially Maiden, and suffers only for not having Dickinson on it, and that's not really the same as "losing the plot".  Anyway... good discussion.  Back to SoA.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bill1971 on October 04, 2017, 08:07:44 AM
New Youtube video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b-vcUEf0v8E

Of course it starts off with Derek making remarks.

Regardless, fun to watch.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Mindflux on October 04, 2017, 08:10:11 AM
New Youtube video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b-vcUEf0v8E

Of course it starts off with Derek making remarks.

Regardless, fun to watch.

Yeah aside from that stuff it's a fun video.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: The Letter M on October 04, 2017, 08:39:22 AM
Derek's remarks at the beginning sure are...interesting, and depending on how you feel about them may increase your distaste for him and/or this band.

Regardless, I'll let the music speak for itself and it sounds neat enough. Glad to see we've got minotaurs in there...so prog.

Anyone else notice a lack of Billy Sheehan? I wonder how late into the sessions he came on board...

-Marc.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: OpenYourEyes311 on October 04, 2017, 08:50:27 AM
The thing that gets me is that Jordan has been the only member of DT that has publicly been friendly and seen with Mike since the split. To let Derek continuously make those comments, let alone laugh at them, makes Mike look really bad in my eyes.

And honestly, I don't get the comments anyway. You're a freakin' KEYBOARD player. Your whole thing is emulating sounds that you cannot make acoustically... that's what a keyboard does. So why are you making fun of someone who's doing the same thing you're doing, but in a more interesting way... oh, I guess I answered my own question
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bosk1 on October 04, 2017, 08:54:59 AM
I think playing BMS/HK/LITS is the way to go. BMS has MP lyrics (and he loves to play the DT songs he wrote the lyrics for) and has a great Derek keyboard solo. Also, these 3 songs flow so well toghether, that, imo, it's best to play them back to back.

Good observation.  My only reason for believing they will not do all of those is that that is a pretty long chunk of the set to do all three.  I don't think they would do that.

As for using Bumblefoot's voice, I don't think they'll use it too much, maybe not at all. Don't ask me why...

Well, they already have been using him in that capacity, so no reason to believe they wouldn't do so on a cover.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: The Walrus on October 04, 2017, 08:56:09 AM
"No iPads, no apps, no cheesy ass gadgets."

(https://www.metal-rules.com/zine/images/stories/Interviews/DEREK%20SHERINIAN06/072006%20508.jpg)
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bosk1 on October 04, 2017, 09:00:21 AM
"No iPads, no apps, no cheesy ass gadgets; no class."

(https://www.metal-rules.com/zine/images/stories/Interviews/DEREK%20SHERINIAN06/072006%20508.jpg)
Fixed.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ganpondorodf on October 04, 2017, 09:01:36 AM
Eat my apps and balls?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Samsara on October 04, 2017, 09:04:49 AM
Cool video. Looking forward to hearing the record. They need to have at least one tour shirt with a Minotaur on it.  :lol
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: devieira73 on October 04, 2017, 09:20:56 AM
"No iPads, no apps, no cheesy ass gadgets; no class."

(https://www.metal-rules.com/zine/images/stories/Interviews/DEREK%20SHERINIAN06/072006%20508.jpg)
Fixed.
Oh, Derek, why, why?! ::)
Anyway, this won't take away my appreciation for the album  :metal
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: rumborak on October 04, 2017, 09:28:53 AM
As a serious question, that way of angling the keyboards must be better for the wrists, no?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: MirrorMask on October 04, 2017, 09:30:42 AM
As a serious question, that way of angling the keyboards must be better for the wrists, no?

I thought it was just showmanship but now that I think about it, you could be right...
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: gzarruk on October 04, 2017, 10:08:20 AM
I think playing BMS/HK/LITS is the way to go. BMS has MP lyrics (and he loves to play the DT songs he wrote the lyrics for) and has a great Derek keyboard solo. Also, these 3 songs flow so well toghether, that, imo, it's best to play them back to back.

Good observation.  My only reason for believing they will not do all of those is that that is a pretty long chunk of the set to do all three.  I don't think they would do that.

Their album is just about an hour long, going by the song lenghts posted, so they should have a lot of extra time on their set to add these songs without worrying too much about the time. It could definitely work.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Stadler on October 04, 2017, 10:31:55 AM
The thing that gets me is that Jordan has been the only member of DT that has publicly been friendly and seen with Mike since the split. To let Derek continuously make those comments, let alone laugh at them, makes Mike look really bad in my eyes.

And honestly, I don't get the comments anyway. You're a freakin' KEYBOARD player. Your whole thing is emulating sounds that you cannot make acoustically... that's what a keyboard does. So why are you making fun of someone who's doing the same thing you're doing, but in a more interesting way... oh, I guess I answered my own question

But isn't that between them?   It's not up to us to say whether Jordan should be uncomfortable or pissed off or amused, or whatever, at Mike or Derek or both.   Maybe it's me; having lived through a marriage where most of my friends (at least the ones that mattered) hated my wife (and vice versa) I kind of see a different side.  It isn't always be a clear, "us or them" environment.     Then again, the opposite could be true:  Jordan could be "this is fucking ridiculous".  :)

As for the "more interesting"... that's personal taste.  It's kind of a less-exaggerated difference between Jon Lord and Rick Wakeman.    Potayto, potahto.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bill1971 on October 04, 2017, 10:35:38 AM
The thing that gets me is that Jordan has been the only member of DT that has publicly been friendly and seen with Mike since the split. To let Derek continuously make those comments, let alone laugh at them, makes Mike look really bad in my eyes.

And honestly, I don't get the comments anyway. You're a freakin' KEYBOARD player. Your whole thing is emulating sounds that you cannot make acoustically... that's what a keyboard does. So why are you making fun of someone who's doing the same thing you're doing, but in a more interesting way... oh, I guess I answered my own question

But isn't that between them?   It's not up to us to say whether Jordan should be uncomfortable or pissed off or amused, or whatever, at Mike or Derek or both.   Maybe it's me; having lived through a marriage where most of my friends (at least the ones that mattered) hated my wife (and vice versa) I kind of see a different side.  It isn't always be a clear, "us or them" environment.     Then again, the opposite could be true:  Jordan could be "this is fucking ridiculous".  :)

As for the "more interesting"... that's personal taste.  It's kind of a less-exaggerated difference between Jon Lord and Rick Wakeman.    Potayto, potahto.

If it is just between them, then why is Derek making it public?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Orbert on October 04, 2017, 10:37:39 AM
As a serious question, that way of angling the keyboards must be better for the wrists, no?

It is.  It's a much more natural position for playing.  The disadvantage is that you don't have great visibility to the controls, but since Derek only ever uses the same two patches, that's not an issue for him.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bosk1 on October 04, 2017, 10:38:54 AM
The thing that gets me is that Jordan has been the only member of DT that has publicly been friendly and seen with Mike since the split. To let Derek continuously make those comments, let alone laugh at them, makes Mike look really bad in my eyes.

And honestly, I don't get the comments anyway. You're a freakin' KEYBOARD player. Your whole thing is emulating sounds that you cannot make acoustically... that's what a keyboard does. So why are you making fun of someone who's doing the same thing you're doing, but in a more interesting way... oh, I guess I answered my own question

But isn't that between them?   It's not up to us to say whether Jordan should be uncomfortable or pissed off or amused, or whatever, at Mike or Derek or both.   Maybe it's me; having lived through a marriage where most of my friends (at least the ones that mattered) hated my wife (and vice versa) I kind of see a different side.  It isn't always be a clear, "us or them" environment.     Then again, the opposite could be true:  Jordan could be "this is fucking ridiculous".  :)

As for the "more interesting"... that's personal taste.  It's kind of a less-exaggerated difference between Jon Lord and Rick Wakeman.    Potayto, potahto.

If it is just between them, then why is Derek making it public?

Exactly.  The point is--and has always been--what Mike and Derek have been saying publicly.  Whatever is going on privately, whether real or imagined, should be kept private.  They don't have any business taking shots publicly, even if there hypothetically could be "more to the story" that could somehow make the shots "justified."  Dirty laundry shouldn't be aired publicly.  That's why people keep responding to Stadler that any other behind-closed-doors fact are "irrelevant."  The "whole story," assuming there is more, may be perfectly relevant to why certain people may be justified in feeling a certain way.  But it is irrelevant to whether any of it should be aired publicly. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Stadler on October 04, 2017, 10:39:10 AM
The thing that gets me is that Jordan has been the only member of DT that has publicly been friendly and seen with Mike since the split. To let Derek continuously make those comments, let alone laugh at them, makes Mike look really bad in my eyes.

And honestly, I don't get the comments anyway. You're a freakin' KEYBOARD player. Your whole thing is emulating sounds that you cannot make acoustically... that's what a keyboard does. So why are you making fun of someone who's doing the same thing you're doing, but in a more interesting way... oh, I guess I answered my own question

But isn't that between them?   It's not up to us to say whether Jordan should be uncomfortable or pissed off or amused, or whatever, at Mike or Derek or both.   Maybe it's me; having lived through a marriage where most of my friends (at least the ones that mattered) hated my wife (and vice versa) I kind of see a different side.  It isn't always be a clear, "us or them" environment.     Then again, the opposite could be true:  Jordan could be "this is fucking ridiculous".  :)

As for the "more interesting"... that's personal taste.  It's kind of a less-exaggerated difference between Jon Lord and Rick Wakeman.    Potayto, potahto.

If it is just between them, then why is Derek making it public?

I meant the interpretation and feelings.  I can only speculate, like you, why he's posting what he's posting.  My personal guess, based on his response and Mike's, is to be funny and to continue the dialogue, good or bad.  Not my sense of humor, then again, most comedy isn't.   Patton Oswald isn't funny either, and yet he keeps posting.  :)   
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Stadler on October 04, 2017, 10:40:16 AM
As a serious question, that way of angling the keyboards must be better for the wrists, no?

It is.  It's a much more natural position for playing.  The disadvantage is that you don't have great visibility to the controls, but since Derek only ever uses the same two patches, that's not an issue for him.

You should do that at your next church gig.  I'll bet lunch after you get at least two people coming up to you and saying "do you need help fixing your keyboard stand? I have tools in the car..."
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: OpenYourEyes311 on October 04, 2017, 10:54:08 AM
The thing that gets me is that Jordan has been the only member of DT that has publicly been friendly and seen with Mike since the split. To let Derek continuously make those comments, let alone laugh at them, makes Mike look really bad in my eyes.

And honestly, I don't get the comments anyway. You're a freakin' KEYBOARD player. Your whole thing is emulating sounds that you cannot make acoustically... that's what a keyboard does. So why are you making fun of someone who's doing the same thing you're doing, but in a more interesting way... oh, I guess I answered my own question

But isn't that between them?   It's not up to us to say whether Jordan should be uncomfortable or pissed off or amused, or whatever, at Mike or Derek or both.   Maybe it's me; having lived through a marriage where most of my friends (at least the ones that mattered) hated my wife (and vice versa) I kind of see a different side.  It isn't always be a clear, "us or them" environment.     Then again, the opposite could be true:  Jordan could be "this is fucking ridiculous".  :)

As for the "more interesting"... that's personal taste.  It's kind of a less-exaggerated difference between Jon Lord and Rick Wakeman.    Potayto, potahto.

As has been previously stated, it's NOT between them. It is now public. As soon as you post a video with Derek making a joke clearly at JRs expense, and Mike laughs at that joke, it's public. And they both don't look good because of it.

And I think you missed the point of my second paragraph. The point was not who I or anyone else thinks is more interesting. It's about who cares how either one makes the sound, as it's not an acoustic sound anyway. Derek is playing Keyboards. Jordan is playing Keyboards and apps on the iPhone (most of which he created) and keytar, etc... they're all noise makers. None of them are guitars or drums or piano. They're not acoustic instruments. They are literally doing the same thing (making noise by pressing buttons designed to make a specific noise), and Derek feels the need to make fun. I just don't get it.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Orbert on October 04, 2017, 11:05:05 AM
As a serious question, that way of angling the keyboards must be better for the wrists, no?

It is.  It's a much more natural position for playing.  The disadvantage is that you don't have great visibility to the controls, but since Derek only ever uses the same two patches, that's not an issue for him.

You should do that at your next church gig.  I'll bet lunch after you get at least two people coming up to you and saying "do you need help fixing your keyboard stand? I have tools in the car..."

I would!  No bet.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: vtgrad on October 04, 2017, 11:17:28 AM
Luckily, LUCKILY, DT is smart enough to stay away from this sort of shit. Granted, they have a whole lot of problems in their own camp to deal with, but they definitely know that acknowledging any of this stuff means lowering yourself.

Or they just don't have an album to push at this point.   It's a really tough thing for me to read too much into "silence".  "Silence" is too easily "anything we want it to be".    For me, no indication of how they feel is exactly that:  no indication.    They could be pissed off, they could be laughing their asses off, they could be having a heart-to-heart with their management about how to move forward... who knows?    It's the worst sort of speculation.

I would argue that the bold quote above is the best way to handle any situation like this (or most situations in general); why does the aggressive party need to know what the other party is feeling... for that matter, why does anyone need to know what the other party is feeling?  Feelings are fluid things ("life turns on a dime" to quote SK) and change with the wind in some cases... why clue-in the aggressive party in a situation like this as to how you are feeling about anything that's spoken or done, when those feelings may change suddenly?  Why not keep your own council within your own circle and go about your own business in the best way that you see fit?

I believe that King Solomon was right: "He that hath knowledge spareth his words: and a man of understanding is of an excellent spirit.  Even a fool, when he holdeth his peace, is counted wise: and he that shutteth his lips is esteemed a man of understanding."  Proverbs 17:27-28
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: The Silent Cody on October 04, 2017, 11:35:56 AM
I enjoyed the video from the studio, funny to watch :) How was the working title from the end? ;) Fuck Stand 45? :p or probably I'm misspelling something very badly ;)
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: MirrorMask on October 04, 2017, 12:03:14 PM
Saw the video. Jeff Scott Soto starts to sing and after 5-6 seconds  it cuts away. DAMN!

I tell you, there aren't nearly enough videos of singers recording vocals where you hear only their bare voice and nothing else. I understand many are into instruments and so it's nice to see drum cams, people recording guitars etc but there should be more videos of singers just singing in the studio, and hearing all the nuisances of their actual voice rather than hearing it along with the other instruments on the final, mastered and mixed record.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Stadler on October 04, 2017, 12:08:26 PM
Saw the video. Jeff Scott Soto starts to sing and after 5-6 seconds  it cuts away. DAMN!

I tell you, there aren't nearly enough videos of singers recording vocals where you hear only their bare voice and nothing else. I understand many are into instruments and so it's nice to see drum cams, people recording guitars etc but there should be more videos of singers just singing in the studio, and hearing all the nuisances of their actual voice rather than hearing it along with the other instruments on the final, mastered and mixed record.

If memory serves, there is a great passage in the doc that came along with Iron Maiden's "A Matter of Life or Death", which does just that.  It gives me the chills.  There's no studio tomfoolery or hijinks, at least with Maiden. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Dave_Manchester on October 04, 2017, 12:08:32 PM
I can only speculate, like you, why he's posting what he's posting.  My personal guess, based on his response and Mike's, is to be funny and to continue the dialogue, good or bad. 

If his intention is to "continue the dialogue, good or bad" then why does he delete absolutely every reply which pushes back a little on his 'Jordan jabs', no matter how politely or respectfully expressed they are? You said your guess is based on his "response", but his response so far has been to shut down every instance of counter opinions. How is that continuing a dialogue?

And you've already addressed the issue of making this stuff public, but your marriage scenario was an apt one, though for a slightly different reason. When you were going through your divorce I don't imagine you walked through the public streets of Philadelphia wearing a sandwich board declaring "My Wife Is The Spawn Of Satan", and then when people asked you what you were doing, responded with "Do you mind, this is a private matter between my wife and I"

I've said it before and I'll say it again: this stuff should be private, yes. That it isn't is entirely down to Mr Sherinian.

On the general theme, my opinion is that this forced camaraderie between MP and DS had better be founded on something more than just a mutual grudge against Dream Theater, because if not then I can see 2018 being a difficult year for the band. They have said that they are spending all next year on this band, touring the world, which is great, but I simply don't see them being very successful. I honestly don't think this album is going to take off on any charts and I don't think they're going to be playing decent sized venues, and it'd be wise for Derek and Mike to practice now not simply lashing out at everyone who doesn't unconditionally love what they've done. It'll be interesting to see how this band survives the long, difficult road ahead as they hit the small clubs and play the gigs night after night. There are 5 strong personalities in this band (with rumours of small clashes already between Derek and Jeff), all of whom have known what comparatively big success is to varying degrees. If by March or April of next year Sons of Apollo haven't taken off, will we see the first unfortunate case of "scheduling conflicts"? I suspect so.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bosk1 on October 04, 2017, 12:21:36 PM
Yup, I agree, Dave.  I personally want them to do well because I want the music to succeed.  But the abominable public face these guys have put forward puts me on the fence in terms of whether or not I will support it.  I am only inclined to do so because I like the music I have heard so far.  The public face the band members themselves have been putting forward is having the opposite effect, and if I liked the music any less, I wouldn't even consider buying it, as I have lost any desire whatsoever to support these guys just because of who they are.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Stadler on October 04, 2017, 12:50:13 PM
I can only speculate, like you, why he's posting what he's posting.  My personal guess, based on his response and Mike's, is to be funny and to continue the dialogue, good or bad. 

If his intention is to "continue the dialogue, good or bad" then why does he delete absolutely every reply which pushes back a little on his 'Jordan jabs', no matter how politely or respectfully expressed they are? You said your guess is based on his "response", but his response so far has been to shut down every instance of counter opinions. How is that continuing a dialogue?

And you've already addressed the issue of making this stuff public, but your marriage scenario was an apt one, though for a slightly different reason. When you were going through your divorce I don't imagine you walked through the public streets of Philadelphia wearing a sandwich board declaring "My Wife Is The Spawn Of Satan", and then when people asked you what you were doing, responded with "Do you mind, this is a private matter between my wife and I"

I've said it before and I'll say it again: this stuff should be private, yes. That it isn't is entirely down to Mr Sherinian.

I don't disagree with that, with the caveat that I wouldn't answer that person that way, unless and until they said they were offended and thought it childish (the latter of which is happening here, more or less).  At that point, you are, I guess, entitled to make of that sandwich board what you will (as long as it is keeping with the facts that you know or that are available) but the EMOTIONAL response to it is solely that of my wife.  If she thinks it's childish and inappropriate, that's all that matters.  If she chuckles and says "That's my Stadler..." then no one else has anything to say about it. 

A good example of what I'm talking about is actually Bill and Hillary Clinton.  She took a lot of shit from people for staying with him, and how it's not feminist to stay with him, and how she's an opportunist (which, generally, she is) for staying with him... and I was then and am now of the opinion that it is HER choice and HER prerogative whether to stay, and no one else can make that decision for her, or judge her for that decision.   That's all I'm saying.   

Quote
On the general theme, my opinion is that this forced camaraderie between MP and DS had better be founded on something more than just a mutual grudge against Dream Theater, because if not then I can see 2018 being a difficult year for the band. They have said that they are spending all next year on this band, touring the world, which is great, but I simply don't see them being very successful. I honestly don't think this album is going to take off on any charts and I don't think they're going to be playing decent sized venues, and it'd be wise for Derek and Mike to practice now not simply lashing out at everyone who doesn't unconditionally love what they've done. It'll be interesting to see how this band survives the long, difficult road ahead as they hit the small clubs and play the gigs night after night. There are 5 strong personalities in this band (with rumours of small clashes already between Derek and Jeff), all of whom have known what comparatively big success is to varying degrees. If by March or April of next year Sons of Apollo haven't taken off, will we see the first unfortunate case of "scheduling conflicts"? I suspect so.

I agree with this wholeheartedly.  100%.  I think some of the members of SoA have an awful lot of eggs in one, flimsy basket.   Here in CT, Dream Theater played the Oakdale Theater in Wallingford, about 5,000.   The last two times I've seen Mike was at the Ridgefield Playhouse, a fantastic place to see a show, but that only seats about 500.   I feel like SoA is far more likely to be playing the latter.  Couple that with the multiple reviews that cite Jeff as perhaps one of the more open to interpretation decisions (I know for me, it's the one area that troubles me the most about SoA), and I don't see the road ahead paved with stadium headlining shows and platinum records.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Herrick on October 04, 2017, 01:12:02 PM
Here is the interview. Lots of info and insights

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v7exJyAgjhk

Sherinian really can't stop talking about Dream Theater. I wonder if it's something that eats away at him. I hope not.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: The Walrus on October 04, 2017, 01:26:29 PM
It definitely eats at him. Why else would he constantly make jabs at JR and DT two full decades after the fact? It's sad.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Samsara on October 04, 2017, 01:27:31 PM
*sigh*

Can it just be about the music? I mean, yeah, there are egos involved, and DS said some stupid things that should have been kept private. But once you get the music, and put it on, can you separate the online drama from the tunes?

I know personally that if I am remotely connected to something, that no, I can't. I need distance. But in this situation, with very few exceptions, we're all just fans here. Nothing that goes on with DT/MP/DS affects us in any way in our real lives. So, that said, are people REALLY going to not check out the record and go see them just because of their big mouths? REALLY? I mean, in bosk1's case, who has had direct contact with MP, and with members of Dream Theater because of this forum, I get it (trust me, I get it better than most).

But for the rest of us, come on...

Just put on the tunes and let all this promotional squabble and BS go away...
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bosk1 on October 04, 2017, 01:32:34 PM
It would be much easier to disconnect from it if it was one, or two, or even a handful of relatively isolated comments.  But it's not.  There's something new every couple of days, it seems.  And Mike and Derek are actively trying to get it all out there by making sure it is on social media.  It's more than a few careless comments on social media or in interviews--it is actively using social media to troll on a regular basis now.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Stadler on October 04, 2017, 01:35:30 PM
Here is the interview. Lots of info and insights

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v7exJyAgjhk

Sherinian really can't stop talking about Dream Theater. I wonder if it's something that eats away at him. I hope not.

We know one of the commenters. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Anxiety35 on October 04, 2017, 01:47:08 PM
Derek said that he wanted to keep it real, old school, and make it rocking. That's great. That should have been all he needed to say.

Why the obvious jab at JR with the reference to the iPad, keytar, apps, and gadgets? The technology side of things is another element that sets JR apart from the rest of the keyboard world, besides his playing ability.

In my opinion Derek will never be the player Rudess is. Just like I will never be the drummer Neil Peart is. I like Derek's playing but I don't care for his current attitude. Just be what makes you Derek Sherinian and let everything else fall into place.

Let it go dude.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Samsara on October 04, 2017, 01:51:51 PM
It's just really sad (not meaning that against anyone here) that what could be a really cool musical experience is being tainted -- not just by the commentary from DS and MP, but by the "need" to respond to it, and the pot that gets stirred because of that reaction.

Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: kaos2900 on October 04, 2017, 02:16:39 PM
I'm going to be greedy and say that I hope this goes no where just so Mike can focus his time and energy on Flying Colors 3 and The Neal Morse Band. I think Neal is the Angel and Derek is the devil on Mike's shoulder at this point. Mike needs a positive influence, not someone like Derek who is going to egg him on.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Nekov on October 04, 2017, 02:31:04 PM
I'm going to be greedy and say that I hope this goes no where just so Mike can focus his time and energy on Flying Colors 3 and The Neal Morse Band. I think Neal is the Angel and Derek is the devil on Mike's shoulder at this point. Mike needs a positive influence, not someone like Derek who is going to egg him on.

I would like this so much (the flying colors part) and agree that he needs to spend a lot more time with Neal. I'd also love if they could put together another Transatlantic album
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: PixelDream on October 04, 2017, 02:42:12 PM
What I've heard so far from Sons of Apollo seems like enjoyable music, but really nothing new at this point. Alas, I'm not expecting anything groundbreaking either from DT anymore.

Derek's remarks are very childish I agree, but if I empathise real hard I can see where he's coming from. I really like Falling Into Infinity and Derek's work on it, and it must have been devastating to be replaced like that while doing such a good job. Still, this is two decades after the fact, DT is late-career and it just all seems so damn futile. Especially when Sons of Apollo sounds as generic prog metal as it does.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Herrick on October 04, 2017, 02:46:00 PM
I enjoyed the video from the studio, funny to watch :) How was the working title from the end? ;) Fuck Stand 45? :p or probably I'm misspelling something very badly ;)

I thought it was Fuck Stain 45.

*sigh*

Can it just be about the music? I mean, yeah, there are egos involved, and DS said some stupid things that should have been kept private. But once you get the music, and put it on, can you separate the online drama from the tunes?

I can but since there's only two tracks officially released, there's not much else to talk about. 12 more days!


We know one of the commenters.

Huh?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: MirrorMask on October 04, 2017, 02:47:29 PM
Imagine if the album is insanely good. Or obscenely bad. I'd wish for one of the two extremes just to see what happens  :lol
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Dave_Manchester on October 04, 2017, 02:49:00 PM
*sigh*

Can it just be about the music? I mean, yeah, there are egos involved, and DS said some stupid things that should have been kept private. But once you get the music, and put it on, can you separate the online drama from the tunes?

I know personally that if I am remotely connected to something, that no, I can't. I need distance. But in this situation, with very few exceptions, we're all just fans here. Nothing that goes on with DT/MP/DS affects us in any way in our real lives.

This is technically true but I don't think it's how the vast majority of us relate and react to the world. Chris Brown (for example) beating the shit out of Rihanna didn't "affect us in any way in our real lives" either but I still think it was understandable for people to have a reaction to it, and perhaps not want to support the guy's career. It's how we're wired as people, it's why we emotionally respond to news stories that don't 'directly affect us'. Even you, for example, are clearly annoyed by people being negative in this thread, even though it doesn't affect your life in any way.

To your point about separating the music from the drama once I've hit 'play' - absolutely I can, and I have. My reaction to this band's music is totally separate from my decision not to give them any money. When I play their songs, I care only about the songs, and the furthest thing from my mind is anything Derek or Mike have said or done. Buying the album is a different issue entirely, and not connected to my experience of the music. That part is based on a desire to one day see Derek Sherinian having to flip burgers to provide for his family and to then see how well he takes being mocked.

It's as I was saying to Stadler, when you dismiss and deride anyone who 'criticises' your music as 'biased burger-flipping Dream Theater fanboys' then it's you (Derek) who have taken it all beyond the music and made it personal, not us.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ganpondorodf on October 04, 2017, 02:53:30 PM
I do wonder how John Lennon would have been perceived if he'd been around in the age of social media. He was one of the great songwriters of the 20th century but was also a complete piece of shit. How well known were his personal foibles at the time?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Dave_Manchester on October 04, 2017, 02:53:42 PM
I enjoyed the video from the studio, funny to watch :) How was the working title from the end? ;) Fuck Stand 45? :p or probably I'm misspelling something very badly ;)

I thought it was Fuck Stain 45.


Which could be code for Donald Trump (the 45th president), whose initials are 'DT', which is also...ah fuck it, I'm probably over-analyzing it here.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Mosh on October 04, 2017, 02:55:56 PM
It really is too bad. This should’ve been THE most exciting MP project and it has been bogged down by drama. I’ve always felt that the internet is generally good for music discovery and connecting with artists, but this release has proved to be an exception.

I mentioned early on that friendly competition is a good thing, I still stand by that, but this has crossed the line into distracting and somewhat childish. We don’t know how DT feels about it because they’ve been silent, but the one sidedness of the whole thing does not come off well.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Samsara on October 04, 2017, 02:59:49 PM
It really is too bad. This should’ve been THE most exciting MP project and it has been bogged down by drama. I’ve always felt that the internet is generally good for music discovery and connecting with artists, but this release has proved to be an exception.

I mentioned early on that friendly competition is a good thing, I still stand by that, but this has crossed the line into distracting and somewhat childish. We don’t know how DT feels about it because they’ve been silent, but the one sidedness of the whole thing does not come off well.

Agreed. I admire DT for taking the high road and ignoring them -- as they should in their position.

As for connecting with artists, I've found it can be good and bad. This is an example of the bad for sure. To be honest, I've been slowly severing most of my ties on social media with artists as I see them ramp up with political posts and such, or band drama. Just not worth my time.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: MirrorMask on October 04, 2017, 03:08:31 PM
Well, to be fair - DT are currently on tour celebrating Images and Words, and the last guy that posted an interview with James said he was instructed to ask mainly about Images and Words since that's what they were touring about, so unless someone sneaks in an interview a specific question, when would they even have time to address the situation? it's not that DT have a new album coming out soon and they're doing press where questions about another band with two ex DT members would be perfectly legitimate.

How would they even react now? Jordan posting a comment "We rocked the house in Indonesia, the fans seemed to not mind at all my apps while we were playing the album everyone was dying to hear, unlike Falling Into Infinity"? it would just be forced.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ganpondorodf on October 04, 2017, 03:12:58 PM
I don't really see why DT would give a shit. Are SoA gonna deprive them of ticket sales? I can't see a scenario where that's really a choice for many people.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: TAC on October 04, 2017, 03:31:42 PM
How would they even react now? Jordan posting a comment "We rocked the house in Indonesia, the fans seemed to not mind at all my apps while we were playing the album everyone was dying to hear, unlike Falling Into Infinity"? it would just be forced.

JR would be like #No Lavalamp
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: noxon on October 04, 2017, 03:37:50 PM
I don't think DT is even aware that this is happening. And if they are, it's most likely something they laugh / scoff at and ignore. It's basically just noise to them. If you see the interview I did with JP and JM they basically say they don't pay much attention to social media and stuff. It's a promotional tool to them. They keep a distance exactly to restrict the exposure to unnecessary drama.

It's a very one sided grudge shit fest.

And to the person saying "nothing that goes on with DT/DS/MP affects you in real life" - weeeeeell ;) But I'm a special case ;) But as such, the reaction from MP and DS to my review was pretty much the same as when JR reacted badly to my BCSL review. I'm worried about what I will be able to do with MP and DS going forward... Will I -want- to do anything? I mean, the reason I started "Dream Theater World" and named it as such was that I wanted to gather the "world" into one umbrella, on both sides. I wanted to cover all aspects. I wanted give exposure to everyone connected to DT. I don't even know if that is possible right now...
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Madman Shepherd on October 04, 2017, 03:39:47 PM
*sigh*

Can it just be about the music? I mean, yeah, there are egos involved, and DS said some stupid things that should have been kept private. But once you get the music, and put it on, can you separate the online drama from the tunes?

I know personally that if I am remotely connected to something, that no, I can't. I need distance. But in this situation, with very few exceptions, we're all just fans here. Nothing that goes on with DT/MP/DS affects us in any way in our real lives. So, that said, are people REALLY going to not check out the record and go see them just because of their big mouths? REALLY? I mean, in bosk1's case, who has had direct contact with MP, and with members of Dream Theater because of this forum, I get it (trust me, I get it better than most).

But for the rest of us, come on...

Just put on the tunes and let all this promotional squabble and BS go away...

Music is an immersive experience.  If it wasn't then concerts would just be people playing music with the houselights on in whatever polo shirt they were wearing that day.  If it wasn't nobody would bother reading any interview with any band member or even looking at or caring about the album cover. 

But all of those things have an effect on our enjoyment or interest of a band.  I'd like to think I can separate all of that stuff from the music and I think I can for the most part you're fooling yourself if you think music is the only thing that matters. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Ben_Jamin on October 04, 2017, 03:51:24 PM
Day of The Dead. If there is a song like that on here. Then, I won't complain.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bill1971 on October 04, 2017, 04:23:22 PM
How would they even react now? Jordan posting a comment "We rocked the house in Indonesia, the fans seemed to not mind at all my apps while we were playing the album everyone was dying to hear, unlike Falling Into Infinity"? it would just be forced.

JR would be like #No Lavalamp

JR could also be like #IWasnttheonewhowasfired

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b-vcUEf0v8E&t=178s

By the way in the youtube comments in the replies to the 1st comment about shots being fired Derek is getting destroyed.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: RodrigoAltaf on October 04, 2017, 05:55:34 PM
I'm interviewing Derek in a week, and was given a copy today. I won't say too much about it, but with the risk of being banned, I'll say this much: IT IS AMAZING!!!!
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bill1971 on October 04, 2017, 06:33:23 PM
I'm interviewing Derek in a week, and was given a copy today. I won't say too much about it, but with the risk of being banned, I'll say this much: IT IS AMAZING!!!!

Good to hear! Good luck with the interview.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: RodrigoAltaf on October 04, 2017, 06:53:01 PM
Thanks man. I have about 12 questions already - this was tough because a lot of the ones I had have already been addressed in other interviews - but if you have any suggestions, feel free to PM me.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: DT2003 on October 04, 2017, 08:26:10 PM

Hmm, I don't know. I have seen him recently with the Neal Morse Band and the energy of those shows was as high as any great/fantastic concert I have seen. Sure, SF shows had special value for many DT fans, but great entertainers and a good crowd can come a very long way. .

The energi thing isnt something im assuming, it comes from MP interviews. ITS something he has commented on.

I have seen both The Neal Morse Band and The Shattered Fortress in the past month and a half. I enjoyed both shows, but enjoyed The Neal Morse Band show more as they are my favorite band right now and The Similitude of a Dream is one of my favorite albums of all time. With that said, the energy levels at the two shows was not even close. The energy at The Shattered Fortress show was through the roof and definitely the highest I've seen in the several shows I've seen with MP since he left DT.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: KevShmev on October 04, 2017, 08:47:00 PM
I'm going to be greedy and say that I hope this goes no where just so Mike can focus his time and energy on Flying Colors 3 and The Neal Morse Band. I think Neal is the Angel and Derek is the devil on Mike's shoulder at this point. Mike needs a positive influence, not someone like Derek who is going to egg him on.

Yep, this is along the lines of what I have said for a while.

Even though I find Portnoy to usually have an overbearing and annoying personality, he usually seems more low key and likable when around Neal Morse.  Neal clearly brings out the best in him (not counting his temper tantrum when he was sick over in Europe a year or two ago).

On the flip side, all of those annoying personality traits he possesses seems magnified these days thanks to being around Sherinian so much.  Sherinian seems to bring out the worst in him.


I have seen both The Neal Morse Band and The Shattered Fortress in the past month and a half. I enjoyed both shows, but enjoyed The Neal Morse Band show more as they are my favorite band right now and The Similitude of a Dream is one of my favorite albums of all time. With that said, the energy levels at the two shows was not even close. The energy at The Shattered Fortress show was through the roof and definitely the highest I've seen in the several shows I've seen with MP since he left DT.

I am guessing you didn't see the NMB at Morsefest, right?  Their energy both nights at that was pretty high.  Not bad for a band full of older guys (vs the DT cover thing, which is Portnoy and a handful of young guys).
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: DT2003 on October 04, 2017, 09:02:01 PM

I have seen both The Neal Morse Band and The Shattered Fortress in the past month and a half. I enjoyed both shows, but enjoyed The Neal Morse Band show more as they are my favorite band right now and The Similitude of a Dream is one of my favorite albums of all time. With that said, the energy levels at the two shows was not even close. The energy at The Shattered Fortress show was through the roof and definitely the highest I've seen in the several shows I've seen with MP since he left DT.

I am guessing you didn't see the NMB at Morsefest, right?  Their energy both nights at that was pretty high.  Not bad for a band full of older guys (vs the DT cover thing, which is Portnoy and a handful of young guys).

No unfortunately I wasn't able to go to Morsefest. Just to be clear when I was talking about energy I was referring to the crowd, not the bands. NMB (particularly Neal and Mike) certainly have plenty of energy.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: KevShmev on October 04, 2017, 09:03:42 PM
Well, Dream Theater's music is heavier and more rocking than Neal Morse's, so that is naturally going to translate to a more energetic crowd, although the crowd was pretty bananas at Morsefest, especially the second night.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: gzarruk on October 04, 2017, 10:55:15 PM
On the general theme, my opinion is that this forced camaraderie between MP and DS had better be founded on something more than just a mutual grudge against Dream Theater, because if not then I can see 2018 being a difficult year for the band. They have said that they are spending all next year on this band, touring the world, which is great, but I simply don't see them being very successful. I honestly don't think this album is going to take off on any charts and I don't think they're going to be playing decent sized venues, and it'd be wise for Derek and Mike to practice now not simply lashing out at everyone who doesn't unconditionally love what they've done. It'll be interesting to see how this band survives the long, difficult road ahead as they hit the small clubs and play the gigs night after night. There are 5 strong personalities in this band (with rumours of small clashes already between Derek and Jeff), all of whom have known what comparatively big success is to varying degrees. If by March or April of next year Sons of Apollo haven't taken off, will we see the first unfortunate case of "scheduling conflicts"? I suspect so.

I agree. As you say, they don't seem to be willing to put the hard work into it. They want to become "the kings of prog metal" inmediately even before their first, and already controversial, album is released. To me, they're definitely going to be disappointed, not necessarily because the album is going to be badly received, but because they have some very unrealistic expectations, and a new band, doesn't matter who's in it, can't achieve that much in such short time.


I'm going to be greedy and say that I hope this goes no where just so Mike can focus his time and energy on Flying Colors 3 and The Neal Morse Band. I think Neal is the Angel and Derek is the devil on Mike's shoulder at this point. Mike needs a positive influence, not someone like Derek who is going to egg him on.

Bingo.


Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: PepeLePew on October 04, 2017, 11:20:37 PM

I thought it was Fuck Stain 45.


That's what I heard, too...  :omg:
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: PepeLePew on October 04, 2017, 11:26:23 PM

Which could be code for Donald Trump (the 45th president), whose initials are 'DT', which is also...ah fuck it, I'm probably over-analyzing it here.

:rollin
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: nobloodyname on October 04, 2017, 11:36:30 PM
But as such, the reaction from MP and DS to my review was pretty much the same as when JR reacted badly to my BCSL review.

I've seen you reference this before but I don't think I've read the story behind it. Are you able to share what happened, please?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: The Silent Cody on October 05, 2017, 03:43:51 AM

Which could be code for Donald Trump (the 45th president), whose initials are 'DT', which is also...ah fuck it, I'm probably over-analyzing it here.

:rollin
:rollin :rollin :rollin
That kind of deduction is quite inspiring  :lol
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: devieira73 on October 05, 2017, 06:16:29 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VHSUT-ClRo8
DS and MP commenting on God of the Sun. That chorus reminds me a lot of the style of Rainbow or 80's MSG :tup
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: PepeLePew on October 05, 2017, 06:43:04 AM
I like what I'm hearing!!! Can't wait!  :metal
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Samsara on October 05, 2017, 08:22:36 AM

And to the person saying "nothing that goes on with DT/DS/MP affects you in real life" - weeeeeell ;) But I'm a special case ;) But as such, the reaction from MP and DS to my review was pretty much the same as when JR reacted badly to my BCSL review. I'm worried about what I will be able to do with MP and DS going forward... Will I -want- to do anything? I mean, the reason I started "Dream Theater World" and named it as such was that I wanted to gather the "world" into one umbrella, on both sides. I wanted to cover all aspects. I wanted give exposure to everyone connected to DT. I don't even know if that is possible right now...

I was talking about the average joe, not someone who has any sort of connection with the band in any regard. Obviously, the moment you have interaction that is more one-on-one, you're not an average joe any longer. You have some sort of connection with that person. If I didn't explain that fully, sorry. I thought I did. Trust me, I completely understand your perspective (and have gone through something similar myself).
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bill1971 on October 05, 2017, 08:39:56 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VHSUT-ClRo8
DS and MP commenting on God of the Sun. That chorus reminds me a lot of the style of Rainbow or 80's MSG :tup

I love DS's passion for the song, you can tell he is very proud of it. Looking forward to hearing it.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bill1971 on October 05, 2017, 09:30:20 AM
On the general theme, my opinion is that this forced camaraderie between MP and DS had better be founded on something more than just a mutual grudge against Dream Theater, because if not then I can see 2018 being a difficult year for the band. They have said that they are spending all next year on this band, touring the world, which is great, but I simply don't see them being very successful. I honestly don't think this album is going to take off on any charts and I don't think they're going to be playing decent sized venues, and it'd be wise for Derek and Mike to practice now not simply lashing out at everyone who doesn't unconditionally love what they've done. It'll be interesting to see how this band survives the long, difficult road ahead as they hit the small clubs and play the gigs night after night. There are 5 strong personalities in this band (with rumours of small clashes already between Derek and Jeff), all of whom have known what comparatively big success is to varying degrees. If by March or April of next year Sons of Apollo haven't taken off, will we see the first unfortunate case of "scheduling conflicts"? I suspect so.

I agree. As you say, they don't seem to be willing to put the hard work into it. They want to become "the kings of prog metal" inmediately even before their first, and already controversial, album is released. To me, they're definitely going to be disappointed, not necessarily because the album is going to be badly received, but because they have some very unrealistic expectations, and a new band, doesn't matter who's in it, can't achieve that much in such short time.


I'm going to be greedy and say that I hope this goes no where just so Mike can focus his time and energy on Flying Colors 3 and The Neal Morse Band. I think Neal is the Angel and Derek is the devil on Mike's shoulder at this point. Mike needs a positive influence, not someone like Derek who is going to egg him on.

Bingo.

Neal is his future and Derek is his past. I think with Derek he is living too much in the past and wants SOA to be the next DT immediately. It feeds into his bitterness of what he could have had, same with Derek. Neal is a fresh and separate entity from his past with a great musical future. Plus I agree Neal is so mush more positive and Derek is like a jealous kid.

Well, I have now analyzed people I don't know based on some interviews and tweets. Good grief. :)
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Stadler on October 05, 2017, 09:43:27 AM

We know one of the commenters.

Huh?

Wasn't that our own Kotowboy weighing in in the comments section?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: gzarruk on October 05, 2017, 10:23:01 AM

We know one of the commenters.

Huh?

Wasn't that our own Kotowboy weighing in in the comments section?

Does anyone know what happened to him on DTF?  :huh:
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Adami on October 05, 2017, 10:24:40 AM

We know one of the commenters.

Huh?

Wasn't that our own Kotowboy weighing in in the comments section?

Might be a coincidence.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: antigoon on October 05, 2017, 10:45:11 AM

We know one of the commenters.

Huh?

Wasn't that our own Kotowboy weighing in in the comments section?

Does anyone know what happened to him on DTF?  :huh:

Mike called in one last favor to the Adrenaline Mob.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on October 05, 2017, 10:48:23 AM

We know one of the commenters.

Huh?

Wasn't that our own Kotowboy weighing in in the comments section?

Might be a coincidence.

Its not.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: nobloodyname on October 05, 2017, 11:04:58 AM

We know one of the commenters.

Huh?

Wasn't that our own Kotowboy weighing in in the comments section?

Does anyone know what happened to him on DTF?  :huh:

Banned.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on October 05, 2017, 11:06:50 AM
Probably for making comments like in that youtube video. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Mindflux on October 05, 2017, 12:21:57 PM
Banned.

Oh is that why it's been so nice and peaceful in here?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: the keyboard wizard on October 05, 2017, 12:57:38 PM
I don't think DT is even aware that this is happening. And if they are, it's most likely something they laugh / scoff at and ignore. It's basically just noise to them. If you see the interview I did with JP and JM they basically say they don't pay much attention to social media and stuff. It's a promotional tool to them. They keep a distance exactly to restrict the exposure to unnecessary drama.
I agree concerning JP and JM but Rudess is active on social medias AND he is following Derek on Twitter so he must have read the tweets.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Mindflux on October 05, 2017, 01:22:04 PM
I don't think DT is even aware that this is happening. And if they are, it's most likely something they laugh / scoff at and ignore. It's basically just noise to them. If you see the interview I did with JP and JM they basically say they don't pay much attention to social media and stuff. It's a promotional tool to them. They keep a distance exactly to restrict the exposure to unnecessary drama.
I agree concerning JP and JM but Rudess is active on social medias AND he is following Derek on Twitter so he must have read the tweets.

Jordan is following over 3,000 people. It's highly unlikely he saw them... I follow under 200 people and I miss all sorts of stuff in the feed.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: MirrorMask on October 05, 2017, 01:33:38 PM
Anyway - that little piece of God of the Sun looks promising!
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Madman Shepherd on October 05, 2017, 03:54:21 PM
Anyway - that little piece of God of the Sun looks promising!

From what little I've heard it sounds the best of the three so far
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bill1971 on October 05, 2017, 06:11:21 PM
Anyway - that little piece of God of the Sun looks promising!

From what little I've heard it sounds the best of the three so far

It sounds like the most time went into it. Derek has been working on it for a while. Which is great! Despite my thoughts on DS and MP's attitude I am curious to hear this album. Sign of the Times is decent the other is a bit generic but anxious to hear the rest.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bosk1 on October 05, 2017, 06:25:07 PM
I couldn't tell from that clip whether they were saying they spent more time on that one (I actually got the opposite impression, because they mentioned how Derek basically wrote the whole thing before anyone else could really give any input, and they decided to leave it alone).  But what I did get is that Derek felt very inspired on it, which is often the best thing for composition of a song.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Madman Shepherd on October 05, 2017, 07:02:19 PM
Anyway - that little piece of God of the Sun looks promising!

From what little I've heard it sounds the best of the three so far

It sounds like the most time went into it. Derek has been working on it for a while. Which is great! Despite my thoughts on DS and MP's attitude I am curious to hear this album. Sign of the Times is decent the other is a bit generic but anxious to hear the rest.
I couldn't tell from that clip whether they were saying they spent more time on that one (I actually got the opposite impression, because they mentioned how Derek basically wrote the whole thing before anyone else could really give any input, and they decided to leave it alone).  But what I did get is that Derek felt very inspired on it, which is often the best thing for composition of a song.

They may have spent the least time honing it in the studio but it may be the song that had the most time spent on it overall if Derek kept writing it on his own.  I think there was a discussion in the other thread about how they write but I (like others) think they should spend more time writing rather than devoting 2-3 weeks to pound out ideas.  If I'm not mistaken, Dream Theater would spend in upwards of 3 months writing an album from scratch.  Of course, I&W was written over the course of several years. If I could sum up my main complaint with the other two songs it would be that they are just kind of there.  Decent riffs, decent vocals, and basically seems like it was put together in a few days. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ganpondorodf on October 05, 2017, 07:02:26 PM

We know one of the commenters.

Huh?

Wasn't that our own Kotowboy weighing in in the comments section?

Does anyone know what happened to him on DTF?  :huh:

Mike called in one last favor to the Adrenaline Mob.

 :hat
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Fritzinger on October 06, 2017, 09:26:37 AM
I'm also very much looking forward to this release. I find MPs & DSs behavior nothing but childish and embarrassing. They're grown men, not in the middle of their puberty. Also I love how DT simply said NOTHING about this whole nonsense. I haven't heard anything from the new album, but I gotta say the whole shenanigans by MP & DS have lowered my anticipation for the album a bit.

But has anyone ever thought of those two doing this on purpose and the absolute awareness that they're pissing off fans? A lot of people have become famous in music business through scandals... Not saying this is the case but what do you guys think?

Also I think they should have put more thought into the whole name giving thing. Sons Of Apollo sounds like MP talking about Kaleidoscope ("I just like the word I always wanted to make an album with it" - not exact words) all over again. And Psychotic Symphony? That's the most pretentious, prog-stereotypical album name ever. Same with Opus Maximus :D
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: The Walrus on October 06, 2017, 09:36:30 AM
Yeah 'Opus Maximus' just sounds corny and egotistical but whatever.

As far as notoriety... if that's the path they wanna take, fine, but I won't give money to someone talking about their fans flipping burgers
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: mikeyd23 on October 06, 2017, 09:41:13 AM
With the climate and culture of the music industry in 2017 and with the type and style of this music, I doubt any kind of "drama" will gain them fans.

If this was the 1980's, yeah it might but I'm pretty sure the industry couldn't be more different from what it was then for a multitude of reasons.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: MirrorMask on October 06, 2017, 09:50:33 AM
And Psychotic Symphony? That's the most pretentious, prog-stereotypical album name ever. Same with Opus Maximus :D

It's a very typical and cliched prog metal title... "Static Impulse" and "Impermanent Resonance" from James LaBrie aren't much better.

The titles are by far the thing I like the least about JLB's solo albums however, and I hope it's gonna be the same for this record as well!
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: mikeyd23 on October 06, 2017, 09:54:07 AM
And Psychotic Symphony? That's the most pretentious, prog-stereotypical album name ever. Same with Opus Maximus :D

It's a very typical and cliched prog metal title... "Static Impulse" and "Impermanent Resonance" from James LaBrie aren't much better.

The titles are by far the thing I like the least about JLB's solo albums however, and I hope it's gonna be the same for this record as well!

You certainly can't judge a book by it's cover and in this case an album by it's title. That said - I really like the title Impermanent Resonance.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: TAC on October 06, 2017, 10:03:00 AM
The title is fine. The album? Not so much.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Fritzinger on October 06, 2017, 12:56:36 PM
And Psychotic Symphony? That's the most pretentious, prog-stereotypical album name ever. Same with Opus Maximus :D

It's a very typical and cliched prog metal title... "Static Impulse" and "Impermanent Resonance" from James LaBrie aren't much better.

The titles are by far the thing I like the least about JLB's solo albums however, and I hope it's gonna be the same for this record as well!

You certainly can't judge a book by it's cover and in this case an album by it's title. That said - I really like the title Impermanent Resonance.

Yes all those albums are just named with two cool words put randomly together. But the term symphony always hints that this is going to be something extraordinary, which it usually isn't (not having heard PS, it still could be though). Just like the epic concept masterpiece beginning with a tuning orchestra. Mike has been in the Prog genre way too long; he must know that those things are just cheesy prog stereotypes.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: devieira73 on October 06, 2017, 01:09:02 PM
Just to let you know, Jeff said in a interview that the album title came from one of his lyrics from the album. So, like it or not, it didn't came out of the blue at least.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Sycsa on October 06, 2017, 02:48:05 PM
You certainly can't judge a book by it's cover and in this case an album by it's title. That said - I really like the title Impermanent Resonance.
I don't. To me, "impermanent" comes across like such a useless word, a pretentious way of saying "temporary." Psychotic Symphony is worse though.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: The Walrus on October 06, 2017, 03:01:32 PM
You certainly can't judge a book by it's cover and in this case an album by it's title. That said - I really like the title Impermanent Resonance.
I don't. To me, "impermanent" comes across like such a useless word, a pretentious way of saying "temporary." Psychotic Symphony is worse though.

 ??? ??? It's what's called a synonym.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Sycsa on October 06, 2017, 03:14:51 PM
You certainly can't judge a book by it's cover and in this case an album by it's title. That said - I really like the title Impermanent Resonance.
I don't. To me, "impermanent" comes across like such a useless word, a pretentious way of saying "temporary." Psychotic Symphony is worse though.

 ??? ??? It's what's called a synonym.
Well, of course. And I'd never use it instead of temporary, neither in speech, nor in writing, beacuse it comes across as pretentious. What's confusing you?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: The Walrus on October 06, 2017, 03:28:44 PM
You certainly can't judge a book by it's cover and in this case an album by it's title. That said - I really like the title Impermanent Resonance.
I don't. To me, "impermanent" comes across like such a useless word, a pretentious way of saying "temporary." Psychotic Symphony is worse though.

 ??? ??? It's what's called a synonym.
Well, of course. And I'd never use it instead of temporary, neither in speech, nor in writing, beacuse it comes across as pretentious. What's confusing you?

Just pointing out it is neither useless nor inherently pretentious... synonyms help color up a vocabulary... sorry
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Sycsa on October 06, 2017, 04:31:24 PM
You certainly can't judge a book by it's cover and in this case an album by it's title. That said - I really like the title Impermanent Resonance.
I don't. To me, "impermanent" comes across like such a useless word, a pretentious way of saying "temporary." Psychotic Symphony is worse though.

 ??? ??? It's what's called a synonym.
Well, of course. And I'd never use it instead of temporary, neither in speech, nor in writing, beacuse it comes across as pretentious. What's confusing you?

Just pointing out it is neither useless nor inherently pretentious... synonyms help color up a vocabulary... sorry
Who said inherently? I distinctly stated "to me." For someone so keen on linguistics, you sure have a hard time interpreting a simple statement.

Anyway, if the songs are good, I don't really care what they're called. Also, Kansas already did "Opus Insert" and "Magnum Opus." Pretty good songs.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: The Walrus on October 06, 2017, 05:38:36 PM
No need to attack my intelligence.

Sorry for the derail folks
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: RodrigoAltaf on October 06, 2017, 05:47:12 PM
Time to lock up yet another thread related to SOA, because this one has gone off the rails too.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Ben_Jamin on October 06, 2017, 08:29:28 PM
You know, I'm thinking this is their plan. They released two 'safe' songs to give us a hint of the album. Most of these comments are made without even hearing the album. I can undertsand how they feel with people constantly giving them scrap when the album itself hasn't been released. That's why I think they're acting the way they are, being trolls to rile you all up.

Sure most of us don't enjoy what we heard so far and thats fine. Yet, just because he said its progmetal, and then released those more metal songs, doesn't mean the rest are not proggy. Also, he may have his own definition of what prog is? Like all of us do when we talk about progressive music.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Adami on October 06, 2017, 08:36:19 PM
You know, I'm thinking this is their plan. They released two 'safe' songs to give us a hint of the album. Most of these comments are made without even hearing the album. I can undertsand how they feel with people constantly giving them scrap when the album itself hasn't been released. That's why I think they're acting the way they are, being trolls to rile you all up.

Sure most of us don't enjoy what we heard so far and thats fine. Yet, just because he said its progmetal, and then released those more metal songs, doesn't mean the rest are not proggy. Also, he may have his own definition of what prog is? Like all of us do when we talk about progressive music.

I feel like the majority of people who don't like the two new songs feel that way because they just don't like them.

Yes, some people might be let down because it's not prog but I doubt there's much "wow these two songs are great, but they're not technically what I assumed they would be....so I better hate them".
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: devieira73 on October 06, 2017, 08:51:24 PM
About the album itself,  I've asked on insideout Facebook and MP said that the instrumental CD is without the solos. If anyone is considering to buy the 2 CD version, it's interesting to know that  :tup
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Herrick on October 06, 2017, 09:29:40 PM
About the album itself,  I've asked on insideout Facebook and MP said that the instrumental CD is without the solos. If anyone is considering to buy the 2 CD version, it's interesting to know that  :tup

That's an odd decision. Why would they release the instrumental tracks without solos?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Adami on October 06, 2017, 09:31:12 PM
About the album itself,  I've asked on insideout Facebook and MP said that the instrumental CD is without the solos. If anyone is considering to buy the 2 CD version, it's interesting to know that  :tup

That's an odd decision. Why would they release the instrumental tracks without solos?

I think DT did the same thing. This way people can use them as backing tracks to practice the solo or whatever.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Herrick on October 06, 2017, 10:05:24 PM
About the album itself,  I've asked on insideout Facebook and MP said that the instrumental CD is without the solos. If anyone is considering to buy the 2 CD version, it's interesting to know that  :tup

That's an odd decision. Why would they release the instrumental tracks without solos?

I think DT did the same thing. This way people can use them as backing tracks to practice the solo or whatever.

I see.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Fritzinger on October 07, 2017, 05:13:57 AM
For all German speaking people here: Nik Brückner has just released the first review on the Babyblaue Seiten website and it's pretty positive!
https://babyblaue-seiten.de/album_16873.html#oben
I guess all people who can't speak German could use Google translator :)
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: devieira73 on October 07, 2017, 05:57:12 AM
About the album itself,  I've asked on insideout Facebook and MP said that the instrumental CD is without the solos. If anyone is considering to buy the 2 CD version, it's interesting to know that  :tup

That's an odd decision. Why would they release the instrumental tracks without solos?
MP response:
Just rhythm tracks to make them that much different from the final mixes
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Sycsa on October 07, 2017, 05:59:47 AM
I wish they'd release individual stems instead for each instrument. That'd be way more interesting and everybody could create their own personalized mix.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: devieira73 on October 07, 2017, 06:04:24 AM
On Black Clouds MP said that the idea was to people hear more clearly the arrangements beneath the solos.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: devieira73 on October 07, 2017, 06:06:29 AM
Just an idea that I had and I never saw any band do: to make as a bonus CD an instrumental version of the album replacing the vocals melodies by guitars, keyboards or another instrument.  This would be more work for the band for sure, but I think this could be really cool!
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: RodrigoAltaf on October 07, 2017, 07:39:54 AM
I'm curious to find out what covers they'll play live. Burn and "...and the cradle will rock" sounded amazing! Maybe some Queen or The Who would be a great fit.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: The Letter M on October 07, 2017, 04:40:19 PM
I'm curious to find out what covers they'll play live. Burn and "...and the cradle will rock" sounded amazing! Maybe some Queen or The Who would be a great fit.

Definitely some Deep Purple, I think it fits their vibe a bit more if they wanna do some classic rock/metal stuff. Maybe a Rush tune, something heavier like "The Necromancer"?

In reality, they'll probably play covers of their respective past bands (non-DT), though it'd be interesting to hear MP try to nail some of Derek's solo and Planet X stuff.

-Marc.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ganpondorodf on October 07, 2017, 04:57:17 PM
I wish they'd release individual stems instead for each instrument. That'd be way more interesting and everybody could create their own personalized mix.

And possibly make some interesting songs. Don't think Mike or Derek want that
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Mebert78 on October 07, 2017, 05:52:22 PM
Didn't see this posted anywhere yet...


Mike Portnoy on Sons of Apollo: "It's the way it was in Dream Theater, where I'm calling the shots and I'm in control."

Link: https://www.blabbermouth.net/news/mike-portnoy-on-sons-of-apollo-its-the-way-it-was-in-dream-theater-where-im-calling-the-shots-and-im-in-control/

My immediate thought was... and maybe that's partly why you're no longer in DT? :o

Personally, I think he and Derek would really be wise to stop bringing up DT on social media and in interviews and just let the music speak for itself.

EDIT: Let me clarify... I just felt like one of his reasons for leaving DT was because he was burnt out the band and was seemingly handling too much responsibility, so him taking on the same exact role in SoP seems... ironic.  So that's why I said maybe that's part of the reason he's no longer in DT.  If it's what's best for him and the band so be it, but the whole "I'm calling the shots" persona should be kept private within the band, in my opinion.

:)
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Herrick on October 07, 2017, 06:19:35 PM
Didn't see this posted anywhere yet...


Mike Portnoy on Sons of Apollo: "It's the way it was in Dream Theater, where I'm calling the shots and I'm in control."

Link: https://www.blabbermouth.net/news/mike-portnoy-on-sons-of-apollo-its-the-way-it-was-in-dream-theater-where-im-calling-the-shots-and-im-in-control/


My immediate thought was... and maybe that's partly why you're no longer in DT? :o

Personally, I think he and Derek would really be wise to stop bringing up DT on social media and in interviews and just let the music speak for itself.

I haven't read that one but I watched the interview linked on the last page (or two pages ago?). Portnoy said he was calling the shots like he did for the last 10 years he was in Dream Theater but the music writing was collaborative. I'd really like to see this go down because I always wondered how a drummer or singer who don't play any other instruments write music. Not saying it couldn't be done but it would be interesting to see. I'm guessing Sherinian and Bumblefoot did most of the real writing.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Adami on October 07, 2017, 06:22:16 PM
I was hoping the headline was grossly overstated and that the article wasn't like that, but I was wrong. He blatantly states multiple times that he is not only the man completely in charge of SoA but that he was also completely in charge of DT.

He also says that Sheehan just kind of came into the project near the end and only contributed a little and that JSS had some contribution, but not a ton.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ErHaO on October 07, 2017, 06:25:13 PM
Just an idea that I had and I never saw any band do: to make as a bonus CD an instrumental version of the album replacing the vocals melodies by guitars, keyboards or another instrument.  This would be more work for the band for sure, but I think this could be really cool!

Alestorm recently did this, but, eh, they replaced the vocal melodies with crappy dog key patches and added the word "dogs" in each song title. So I guess it is not entirely what you are looking for  :lol
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Mebert78 on October 07, 2017, 06:29:58 PM
I'm guessing Sherinian and Bumblefoot did most of the real writing.

I'm actually pretty psyched to hear Bumblefoot on this album.  I'm not really familiar with any of his past work aside from Chinese Democracy, which I only listened to a couple times, so I'm going in pretty fresh with him.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: TAC on October 07, 2017, 06:31:01 PM
My immediate thought was... and maybe that's partly why you're no longer in DT? :o

 :lol
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: DTA on October 07, 2017, 06:39:13 PM
I'm just getting so tired of the quantity over quality work ethic of MP. He says he wants complete control so he doesn't have to deal with hundreds of emails about arrangements, but that's what collaboration and creating music is. I know he's not bringing in riffs or anything so why does he imagine that his say is somehow more important (or correct?) than the actual creators of the music? What's the point of shitting out lackluster album after album rather than taking lots of time and creating something really unique and interesting? I'll never understand how taking time in the studio to refine the music and live with it a bit before recording is seen as a negative thing in his world.

SoA could've been a rival to Haken in the prog-metal realm, but it's just another cash grab with no real longevity since his bandmates will most likely get tired real quick of having to deal with his need for complete control. I'm sure there'll be some cool moments but the two songs released so far are as bland and stale arrangement-wise as it gets. I knew how the songs would go before I even finished them.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Herrick on October 07, 2017, 06:46:56 PM
I'm just getting so tired of the quantity over quality work ethic of MP. He says he wants complete control so he doesn't have to deal with hundreds of emails about arrangements, but that's what collaboration and creating music is. I know he's not bringing in riffs or anything so why does he imagine that his say is somehow more important (or correct?) than the actual creators of the music? What's the point of shitting out lackluster album after album rather than taking lots of time and creating something really unique and interesting? I'll never understand how taking time in the studio to refine the music and live with it a bit before recording is seen as a negative thing in his world.

SoA could've been a rival to Haken in the prog-metal realm, but it's just another cash grab with no real longevity since his bandmates will most likely get tired real quick of having to deal with his need for complete control. I'm sure there'll be some cool moments but the two songs released so far are as bland and stale arrangement-wise as it gets. I knew how the songs would go before I even finished them.

This is a problem with juggling so many musical projects. Portnoy may not have the time to spend months doing serious writing (or overseeing the writing?) then record & tour just for one band. On top of that they have to merge the schedules of the other guys since they're all doing different projects too.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: devieira73 on October 07, 2017, 07:32:11 PM
Just an idea that I had and I never saw any band do: to make as a bonus CD an instrumental version of the album replacing the vocals melodies by guitars, keyboards or another instrument.  This would be more work for the band for sure, but I think this could be really cool!

Alestorm recently did this, but, eh, they replaced the vocal melodies with crappy dog key patches and added the word "dogs" in each song title. So I guess it is not entirely what you are looking for  :lol
:D no, I was thinking more in a Satriani style.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: As I Am on October 07, 2017, 07:39:02 PM
Didn't see this posted anywhere yet...


Mike Portnoy on Sons of Apollo: "It's the way it was in Dream Theater, where I'm calling the shots and I'm in control."

Link: https://www.blabbermouth.net/news/mike-portnoy-on-sons-of-apollo-its-the-way-it-was-in-dream-theater-where-im-calling-the-shots-and-im-in-control/

My immediate thought was... and maybe that's partly why you're no longer in DT? :o

Personally, I think he and Derek would really be wise to stop bringing up DT on social media and in interviews and just let the music speak for itself.

OR...maybe that's why DT ISN'T DT anymore! :tdwn
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Mebert78 on October 07, 2017, 07:42:36 PM
OR...maybe that's why DT ISN'T DT anymore! :tdwn

Touché.  :tup
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Zook on October 07, 2017, 07:44:16 PM
Didn't see this posted anywhere yet...


Mike Portnoy on Sons of Apollo: "It's the way it was in Dream Theater, where I'm calling the shots and I'm in control."

Link: https://www.blabbermouth.net/news/mike-portnoy-on-sons-of-apollo-its-the-way-it-was-in-dream-theater-where-im-calling-the-shots-and-im-in-control/

My immediate thought was... and maybe that's partly why you're no longer in DT? :o

Personally, I think he and Derek would really be wise to stop bringing up DT on social media and in interviews and just let the music speak for itself.

OR...maybe that's why DT ISN'T DT anymore! :tdwn

They sound like DT to me. Natural progression after BCSL would see even more lead MP vocals including even more ridiculous tough guy vocals and other elements that don't sound like DT.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Anguyen92 on October 07, 2017, 07:49:58 PM
Didn't see this posted anywhere yet...


Mike Portnoy on Sons of Apollo: "It's the way it was in Dream Theater, where I'm calling the shots and I'm in control."

Link: https://www.blabbermouth.net/news/mike-portnoy-on-sons-of-apollo-its-the-way-it-was-in-dream-theater-where-im-calling-the-shots-and-im-in-control/

My immediate thought was... and maybe that's partly why you're no longer in DT? :o

Personally, I think he and Derek would really be wise to stop bringing up DT on social media and in interviews and just let the music speak for itself.

OR...maybe that's why DT ISN'T DT anymore! :tdwn

Even if that's the case, it's probably for the best when it comes to my enjoyment.  I've enjoyed all of their three post-MP albums quite well.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Adami on October 07, 2017, 07:52:55 PM
Last I checked, DT was still DT.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: NoseofNicko on October 07, 2017, 08:03:54 PM
Didn't see this posted anywhere yet...


Mike Portnoy on Sons of Apollo: "It's the way it was in Dream Theater, where I'm calling the shots and I'm in control."

Link: https://www.blabbermouth.net/news/mike-portnoy-on-sons-of-apollo-its-the-way-it-was-in-dream-theater-where-im-calling-the-shots-and-im-in-control/

My immediate thought was... and maybe that's partly why you're no longer in DT? :o

Personally, I think he and Derek would really be wise to stop bringing up DT on social media and in interviews and just let the music speak for itself.

OR...maybe that's why DT ISN'T DT anymore! :tdwn

Ugh...
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Adami on October 07, 2017, 08:06:58 PM
I'm pretty sure DT is still DT.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Lethean on October 07, 2017, 08:10:12 PM
Didn't see this posted anywhere yet...


Mike Portnoy on Sons of Apollo: "It's the way it was in Dream Theater, where I'm calling the shots and I'm in control."

Link: https://www.blabbermouth.net/news/mike-portnoy-on-sons-of-apollo-its-the-way-it-was-in-dream-theater-where-im-calling-the-shots-and-im-in-control/

My immediate thought was... and maybe that's partly why you're no longer in DT? :o

Personally, I think he and Derek would really be wise to stop bringing up DT on social media and in interviews and just let the music speak for itself.

OR...maybe that's why DT ISN'T DT anymore! :tdwn

They sound like DT to me. Natural progression after BCSL would see even more lead MP vocals including even more ridiculous tough guy vocals and other elements that don't sound like DT.

This.  I like all of DT's albums, and I was *really* upset when MP left DT.  But when I started to accept that this is how it was and he really wanted to do other things and wasn't going to be in the band anymore, the first silver lining for me was the thought of no more MP vocals.  These last 3 albums have been incredible and I'm not sure they would have been so good with MP trying to push things in a different direction and insisting on singing.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Madman Shepherd on October 07, 2017, 08:10:36 PM
I'm just getting so tired of the quantity over quality work ethic of MP. He says he wants complete control so he doesn't have to deal with hundreds of emails about arrangements, but that's what collaboration and creating music is. I know he's not bringing in riffs or anything so why does he imagine that his say is somehow more important (or correct?) than the actual creators of the music? What's the point of shitting out lackluster album after album rather than taking lots of time and creating something really unique and interesting? I'll never understand how taking time in the studio to refine the music and live with it a bit before recording is seen as a negative thing in his world.

SoA could've been a rival to Haken in the prog-metal realm, but it's just another cash grab with no real longevity since his bandmates will most likely get tired real quick of having to deal with his need for complete control. I'm sure there'll be some cool moments but the two songs released so far are as bland and stale arrangement-wise as it gets. I knew how the songs would go before I even finished them.

This is a problem with juggling so many musical projects. Portnoy may not have the time to spend months doing serious writing (or overseeing the writing?) then record & tour just for one band. On top of that they have to merge the schedules of the other guys since they're all doing different projects too.

Also, shouldn't bands tour in support of an album within a month or two?  With Mike juggling all of these bands he isn't free until 2018.  If they do a tour in January then the album will be over 2 months old.  Unless this new band takes the world by storm and is played all over radio, the lack of promotion through touring may hurt it pretty bad. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Lethean on October 07, 2017, 08:11:55 PM
I'm just getting so tired of the quantity over quality work ethic of MP. He says he wants complete control so he doesn't have to deal with hundreds of emails about arrangements, but that's what collaboration and creating music is. I know he's not bringing in riffs or anything so why does he imagine that his say is somehow more important (or correct?) than the actual creators of the music? What's the point of shitting out lackluster album after album rather than taking lots of time and creating something really unique and interesting? I'll never understand how taking time in the studio to refine the music and live with it a bit before recording is seen as a negative thing in his world.

SoA could've been a rival to Haken in the prog-metal realm, but it's just another cash grab with no real longevity since his bandmates will most likely get tired real quick of having to deal with his need for complete control. I'm sure there'll be some cool moments but the two songs released so far are as bland and stale arrangement-wise as it gets. I knew how the songs would go before I even finished them.

This is a problem with juggling so many musical projects. Portnoy may not have the time to spend months doing serious writing (or overseeing the writing?) then record & tour just for one band. On top of that they have to merge the schedules of the other guys since they're all doing different projects too.

Also, shouldn't bands tour in support of an album within a month or two?  With Mike juggling all of these bands he isn't free until 2018.  If they do a tour in January then the album will be over 2 months old.  Unless this new band takes the world by storm and is played all over radio, the lack of promotion through touring may hurt it pretty bad.

I think that's more because of JSS than MP.  I believe JSS is doing TSO again this year so he won't be available to tour until next year. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: BelichickFan on October 07, 2017, 08:22:09 PM
Didn't see this posted anywhere yet...


Mike Portnoy on Sons of Apollo: "It's the way it was in Dream Theater, where I'm calling the shots and I'm in control."

Link: https://www.blabbermouth.net/news/mike-portnoy-on-sons-of-apollo-its-the-way-it-was-in-dream-theater-where-im-calling-the-shots-and-im-in-control/

My immediate thought was... and maybe that's partly why you're no longer in DT? :o

Personally, I think he and Derek would really be wise to stop bringing up DT on social media and in interviews and just let the music speak for itself.

OR...maybe that's why DT ISN'T DT anymore! :tdwn
If this album is what Portnoy's vision was for Dream Theater, I'm glad he left.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Madman Shepherd on October 07, 2017, 08:23:41 PM
I'm just getting so tired of the quantity over quality work ethic of MP. He says he wants complete control so he doesn't have to deal with hundreds of emails about arrangements, but that's what collaboration and creating music is. I know he's not bringing in riffs or anything so why does he imagine that his say is somehow more important (or correct?) than the actual creators of the music? What's the point of shitting out lackluster album after album rather than taking lots of time and creating something really unique and interesting? I'll never understand how taking time in the studio to refine the music and live with it a bit before recording is seen as a negative thing in his world.

SoA could've been a rival to Haken in the prog-metal realm, but it's just another cash grab with no real longevity since his bandmates will most likely get tired real quick of having to deal with his need for complete control. I'm sure there'll be some cool moments but the two songs released so far are as bland and stale arrangement-wise as it gets. I knew how the songs would go before I even finished them.

This is a problem with juggling so many musical projects. Portnoy may not have the time to spend months doing serious writing (or overseeing the writing?) then record & tour just for one band. On top of that they have to merge the schedules of the other guys since they're all doing different projects too.

Also, shouldn't bands tour in support of an album within a month or two?  With Mike juggling all of these bands he isn't free until 2018.  If they do a tour in January then the album will be over 2 months old.  Unless this new band takes the world by storm and is played all over radio, the lack of promotion through touring may hurt it pretty bad.

I think that's more because of JSS than MP.  I believe JSS is doing TSO again this year so he won't be available to tour until next year.

True.  Maybe they should have delayed the release.  Then again, if Mike had more time earlier in the year they could have finished the album sooner (I think they took a few months break between recording and finishing it), put it out in august and toured through September/October. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Herrick on October 07, 2017, 08:25:44 PM
I'm just getting so tired of the quantity over quality work ethic of MP. He says he wants complete control so he doesn't have to deal with hundreds of emails about arrangements, but that's what collaboration and creating music is. I know he's not bringing in riffs or anything so why does he imagine that his say is somehow more important (or correct?) than the actual creators of the music? What's the point of shitting out lackluster album after album rather than taking lots of time and creating something really unique and interesting? I'll never understand how taking time in the studio to refine the music and live with it a bit before recording is seen as a negative thing in his world.

SoA could've been a rival to Haken in the prog-metal realm, but it's just another cash grab with no real longevity since his bandmates will most likely get tired real quick of having to deal with his need for complete control. I'm sure there'll be some cool moments but the two songs released so far are as bland and stale arrangement-wise as it gets. I knew how the songs would go before I even finished them.

This is a problem with juggling so many musical projects. Portnoy may not have the time to spend months doing serious writing (or overseeing the writing?) then record & tour just for one band. On top of that they have to merge the schedules of the other guys since they're all doing different projects too.

Also, shouldn't bands tour in support of an album within a month or two?  With Mike juggling all of these bands he isn't free until 2018.  If they do a tour in January then the album will be over 2 months old.  Unless this new band takes the world by storm and is played all over radio, the lack of promotion through touring may hurt it pretty bad.

I think that's more because of JSS than MP.  I believe JSS is doing TSO again this year so he won't be available to tour until next year.

True.  Maybe they should have delayed the release.  Then again, if Mike had more time earlier in the year they could have finished the album sooner (I think they took a few months break between recording and finishing it), put it out in august and toured through September/October.

I thought I read or heard in an interview that Sons of Apollo would be touring all next year.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Madman Shepherd on October 07, 2017, 08:34:05 PM
Yeah that's what they're saying.  Nothings been announced yet.  I just think if they're going to start touring in February then maybe they should have waited to release the album in January.  It's just that most bands tour in the month after the release.  Strike while the iron is hot. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: RodrigoAltaf on October 07, 2017, 08:52:21 PM
MP has said in front of the other members that he´s the leader of SOA. And there´s one onterview where Derek openly acknowledges that. I really don´t see a problem with him saying that. I´ve said this many times here and I´ll say it again - there´s a lot of people in this forum that while seemingly try to have a positive attitute towards MP, always try to pick things here and there to find fault in what he does. Relax people! He´s doing just fine, juggling a gazillion different bands, he´ll tour and promote whichever band he wants when the right time comes...and hey, look at the activity in DTF: Dream Theater is on tour, but the most talked about subject here is, hands down, Sons of Apollo. Some of us care about MP A LOT MORE than we´re ready to admit.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Herrick on October 07, 2017, 10:20:02 PM
MP has said in front of the other members that he´s the leader of SOA. And there´s one onterview where Derek openly acknowledges that. I really don´t see a problem with him saying that. I´ve said this many times here and I´ll say it again - there´s a lot of people in this forum that while seemingly try to have a positive attitute towards MP, always try to pick things here and there to find fault in what he does. Relax people! He´s doing just fine, juggling a gazillion different bands, he´ll tour and promote whichever band he wants when the right time comes...and hey, look at the activity in DTF: Dream Theater is on tour, but the most talked about subject here is, hands down, Sons of Apollo. Some of us care about MP A LOT MORE than we´re ready to admit.

I've no problem with that. Even if I end up disliking the album, I still hope the band is successful because I like the musicians.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Adami on October 07, 2017, 10:22:09 PM
MP has said in front of the other members that he´s the leader of SOA. And there´s one onterview where Derek openly acknowledges that. I really don´t see a problem with him saying that. I´ve said this many times here and I´ll say it again - there´s a lot of people in this forum that while seemingly try to have a positive attitute towards MP, always try to pick things here and there to find fault in what he does. Relax people! He´s doing just fine, juggling a gazillion different bands, he´ll tour and promote whichever band he wants when the right time comes...and hey, look at the activity in DTF: Dream Theater is on tour, but the most talked about subject here is, hands down, Sons of Apollo. Some of us care about MP A LOT MORE than we´re ready to admit.

Is there anything wrong with him controlling the band? Nah.

Does it make people excited or help him look better to publicly brag about being in control? Nope.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: KevShmev on October 07, 2017, 10:26:53 PM


OR...maybe that's why DT ISN'T DT anymore! :tdwn

I have to admit, your hit and run style of posting, that always smacks of "DT sucks without MP; MP rules!" is nothing if not entertaining.  Keep up the good shtick.  :lol :lol :tup :tup
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: rumborak on October 08, 2017, 03:21:03 AM
I think the timing of the song releases is a bit unfortunate. They released Sign of the Times and Coming Home in pretty short succession, and now there's a drought of positive news that is instead filled with drama that's turning off a lot of people. Releasing the songs a bit closer to the actual album release would have been better I think.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: MirrorMask on October 08, 2017, 03:39:19 AM
I'm curious to find out what covers they'll play live. Burn and "...and the cradle will rock" sounded amazing! Maybe some Queen or The Who would be a great fit.

Definitely some Deep Purple, I think it fits their vibe a bit more if they wanna do some classic rock/metal stuff. Maybe a Rush tune, something heavier like "The Necromancer"?

In reality, they'll probably play covers of their respective past bands (non-DT), though it'd be interesting to hear MP try to nail some of Derek's solo and Planet X stuff.

-Marc.

No I'll See the Light Tonight and a famous Guns n' Roses tune as set closers? if I had to round up a setlist made of only one album with cover songs, I'd place in the middle of the set the more specific ones (like Lines in the Sand) and close it off with songs everyone knows.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: wolfking on October 08, 2017, 04:55:56 AM
I thought the headline for the article might have been overblown and taken out of context tto but that's certainly no the case.

This is absolutely mine and Derek's band. We essentially put it together and produced the album and he and I are kinda doing this as partners, with the understanding that I am the leader, to be honest. I don't want to sound brash, but it's the truth. When Derek approached me about doing this last year [he said] 'Let's finally do it and get a singer and turn it into a real band.' I was like 'Look, I already have FLYING COLORS, METAL ALLEGIANCE, THE NEAL MORSE BAND, THE WINERY DOGS. I can't handle another band where I have to get a thousand e-mails every morning from everybody making a decision.' So I said to him, 'If I do another band, it has to be the way I ran DREAM THEATER. It has to be the same dynamic. I have to have creative control. I have to be able to call the shots, make decisions on my own and everybody's got to trust me and my direction as a leader.' And Derek was like 'Absolutely. We'll be partners in terms of business and in terms of producing the album,' but beyond that, it's the way it was in DREAM THEATER where I'm [calling] the shots and I'm in control. I just had to have that to be able to move forward with this band. Everybody is cool with it and understands it and supports that."

 :facepalm:

This band is going to last a long long time.  ::)  So let me get this straight, Mike has too much on his plate, so for him to be in with this band he has to take on the full responsibility and take on a bigger workload for the runnings of the band.  He has to have full control, because it wouldn't be possbile to split responsibilies because talking to the other bandmates and answering emails everyday about business decisions is just too much.  Right Mike, wake up to yourself.

Derek: Hey Mike, I think we should start a proper prog metal band with a kickass singer.  We can call it Sons of Apollo.
Mike: Hey Derek, what a great idea, I'm glad I thought of it

Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Sycsa on October 08, 2017, 05:33:55 AM
Yeah that's what they're saying.  Nothings been announced yet.
They're headlining a prog festival called "Be prog! My friend" next June in Spain (or maybe by that time it will be independent Catalonia).
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: MirrorMask on October 08, 2017, 05:44:20 AM
Well, to be honest, I don't see something terribly wrong with what he said. Sure, he may come off as egoistical, but I see nothing but blunt honest truth in what he said. That's his way of seeing things, and of course we can disagree about it with him, but for the way he's used to work, he sees being in control of a band as less of a burden than being in yet another situation where there have to be compromises on everything.

So if that works for him, good for him I guess, then of course I can see why people would frown upon this. And I don't see him bragging about DT too much either, it was the way it was in the end, he's not saying false things or that we didn't know anyway.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: erwinrafael on October 08, 2017, 07:34:20 AM
So he had creative control of Dream Theater?

This contrasts with JR's candid claim in TA interviews that the crediting of JP and JR as main songwriters was reflective of how it actually has been since he joined the band.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Madman Shepherd on October 08, 2017, 07:52:07 AM
I thought the headline for the article might have been overblown and taken out of context tto but that's certainly no the case.

This is absolutely mine and Derek's band. We essentially put it together and produced the album and he and I are kinda doing this as partners, with the understanding that I am the leader, to be honest. I don't want to sound brash, but it's the truth. When Derek approached me about doing this last year [he said] 'Let's finally do it and get a singer and turn it into a real band.' I was like 'Look, I already have FLYING COLORS, METAL ALLEGIANCE, THE NEAL MORSE BAND, THE WINERY DOGS. I can't handle another band where I have to get a thousand e-mails every morning from everybody making a decision.' So I said to him, 'If I do another band, it has to be the way I ran DREAM THEATER. It has to be the same dynamic. I have to have creative control. I have to be able to call the shots, make decisions on my own and everybody's got to trust me and my direction as a leader.' And Derek was like 'Absolutely. We'll be partners in terms of business and in terms of producing the album,' but beyond that, it's the way it was in DREAM THEATER where I'm [calling] the shots and I'm in control. I just had to have that to be able to move forward with this band. Everybody is cool with it and understands it and supports that."

 :facepalm:

This band is going to last a long long time.  ::)  So let me get this straight, Mike has too much on his plate, so for him to be in with this band he has to take on the full responsibility and take on a bigger workload for the runnings of the band.  He has to have full control, because it wouldn't be possbile to split responsibilies because talking to the other bandmates and answering emails everyday about business decisions is just too much.  Right Mike, wake up to yourself.

Derek: Hey Mike, I think we should start a proper prog metal band with a kickass singer.  We can call it Sons of Apollo.
Mike: Hey Derek, what a great idea, I'm glad I thought of it

It's interesting that he says it's his and Derek's band and that they call the shots except when they don't and he gets to call the shots.

Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: MirrorMask on October 08, 2017, 08:04:07 AM
So he had creative control of Dream Theater?

This contrasts with JR's candid claim in TA interviews that the crediting of JP and JR as main songwriters was reflective of how it actually has been since he joined the band.

Probably he was more an orchestrator of the direction; even if he didn't actually compose the music with an instrument in his hands, maybe he was saying stuff like Give me a heavy piece, try a slow piece, how about we make this section a little more intense, like, dunno, dadedudida, "ah you mean like this?" "Exactly!", and so on.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: King Postwhore on October 08, 2017, 08:15:15 AM
Watch the TOT doc with them in the studio.  He definitely was.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: devieira73 on October 08, 2017, 08:41:53 AM
So he had creative control of Dream Theater?

This contrasts with JR's candid claim in TA interviews that the crediting of JP and JR as main songwriters was reflective of how it actually has been since he joined the band.

Probably he was more an orchestrator of the direction; even if he didn't actually compose the music with an instrument in his hands, maybe he was saying stuff like Give me a heavy piece, try a slow piece, how about we make this section a little more intense, like, dunno, dadedudida, "ah you mean like this?" "Exactly!", and so on.

For sure. In interviews even Jordan refered to Mike as a "musical director" of the band a lot of times. So there's no contradiction neither arrogance from MP on this at all.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: DT2003 on October 08, 2017, 10:58:16 AM
EDIT: Let me clarify... I just felt like one of his reasons for leaving DT was because he was burnt out the band and was seemingly handling too much responsibility, so him taking on the same exact role in SoP seems... ironic.  So that's why I said maybe that's part of the reason he's no longer in DT.  If it's what's best for him and the band so be it, but the whole "I'm calling the shots" persona should be kept private within the band, in my opinion.

:)

Yeah Mike calling the shots is perfectly fine and I think he did a great job of doing that in DT.  The fact that Mike has to make it known that he is calling the shots though I think is part of what turns so many off to him. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: DT2003 on October 08, 2017, 11:18:25 AM
I'm just getting so tired of the quantity over quality work ethic of MP. He says he wants complete control so he doesn't have to deal with hundreds of emails about arrangements, but that's what collaboration and creating music is. I know he's not bringing in riffs or anything so why does he imagine that his say is somehow more important (or correct?) than the actual creators of the music? What's the point of shitting out lackluster album after album rather than taking lots of time and creating something really unique and interesting? I'll never understand how taking time in the studio to refine the music and live with it a bit before recording is seen as a negative thing in his world.

With the exception of Adrenaline Mob, I don't feel that anything Mike has released since he left DT could be considered lackluster.  His work with Neal Morse/NMB, Flying Colors, and Transatlantic is top notch IMO. 

At the same time I have loved everything DT has released since Mike left so to me it's been the best of both worlds by Mike leaving the band.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ytserush on October 08, 2017, 11:37:59 AM
... so they've been (well, mostly Derek) been taking jabs at DT but they're going to play DT music live? Well... that's interesting... not sure why they don't play some of Derek's solo stuff instead, show us what the #KingofKeys is all about

I'd love to hear Derek's songs in this context.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ytserush on October 08, 2017, 11:55:24 AM
I do wonder how John Lennon would have been perceived if he'd been around in the age of social media. He was one of the great songwriters of the 20th century but was also a complete piece of shit. How well known were his personal foibles at the time?

Very interesting point, actually.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: The Walrus on October 08, 2017, 11:59:09 AM
I'm just getting so tired of the quantity over quality work ethic of MP. He says he wants complete control so he doesn't have to deal with hundreds of emails about arrangements, but that's what collaboration and creating music is. I know he's not bringing in riffs or anything so why does he imagine that his say is somehow more important (or correct?) than the actual creators of the music? What's the point of shitting out lackluster album after album rather than taking lots of time and creating something really unique and interesting? I'll never understand how taking time in the studio to refine the music and live with it a bit before recording is seen as a negative thing in his world.

With the exception of Adrenaline Mob, I don't feel that anything Mike has released since he left DT could be considered lackluster.  His work with Neal Morse/NMB, Flying Colors, and Transatlantic is top notch IMO. 

At the same time I have loved everything DT has released since Mike left so to me it's been the best of both worlds by Mike leaving the band.

I love Mike's playing on Hot Streak by The Winery Dogs. IMO it doesn't get nearly the praise it should (the record, that is) - it's my favorite album with MP on it over the last 10 years. His playing on that one doesn't show off or get too flashy, he plays just enough to complement the rest of the song (like the ballad Fire). That's why I'm disappointed they're on this indefinite hiatus because Richie wants to do solo stuff. I'd honestly rather see Mike do more of that these days than technical, flashy prog metal.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: devieira73 on October 08, 2017, 12:08:38 PM
I was watching Live in Chile today... what awesome band!
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ytserush on October 08, 2017, 12:43:22 PM
At the same time I have loved everything DT has released since Mike left so to me it's been the best of both worlds by Mike leaving the band.

It's been pretty much like that for me.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Fritzinger on October 08, 2017, 02:24:36 PM
I'm just getting so tired of the quantity over quality work ethic of MP. He says he wants complete control so he doesn't have to deal with hundreds of emails about arrangements, but that's what collaboration and creating music is. I know he's not bringing in riffs or anything so why does he imagine that his say is somehow more important (or correct?) than the actual creators of the music? What's the point of shitting out lackluster album after album rather than taking lots of time and creating something really unique and interesting? I'll never understand how taking time in the studio to refine the music and live with it a bit before recording is seen as a negative thing in his world.

With the exception of Adrenaline Mob, I don't feel that anything Mike has released since he left DT could be considered lackluster.  His work with Neal Morse/NMB, Flying Colors, and Transatlantic is top notch IMO. 

At the same time I have loved everything DT has released since Mike left so to me it's been the best of both worlds by Mike leaving the band.

This. I don't like TWD too much but at least the prog stuff he did (FC, TA, NMB and I hope SoA) is pretty awesome imo. Still I think he and his bandmates (of whatever band) could take some more time for their records and produce something even more awesome. Like Haken. They take their time for their albums and they always turn out to be something completely new and amazing.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: XeRocks81 on October 08, 2017, 02:47:41 PM
I do wonder how John Lennon would have been perceived if he'd been around in the age of social media. He was one of the great songwriters of the 20th century but was also a complete piece of shit. How well known were his personal foibles at the time?

Very interesting point, actually.

The thing with Lennon is, yes he was a piece of shit for a long time but towards the end of his life he was much better, taking a few years off to be with his wife and young child (the way he totally wasn't for his first wife and child) wich is why it being cut short like that is all the more tragic.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: KevShmev on October 08, 2017, 06:28:48 PM
EDIT: Let me clarify... I just felt like one of his reasons for leaving DT was because he was burnt out the band and was seemingly handling too much responsibility, so him taking on the same exact role in SoP seems... ironic.  So that's why I said maybe that's part of the reason he's no longer in DT.  If it's what's best for him and the band so be it, but the whole "I'm calling the shots" persona should be kept private within the band, in my opinion.

:)

Yeah Mike calling the shots is perfectly fine and I think he did a great job of doing that in DT.  The fact that Mike has to make it known that he is calling the shots though I think is part of what turns so many off to him.

I think he does that because a) he always assumes everything he does will turn to gold, and b) he wants to make sure he gets the bulk of the credit when things go well.  "I am the leader and look how well we are doing!"  He's always been like this.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bosk1 on October 08, 2017, 08:35:13 PM
Yeah, so I am pretty trying to paint Jordan as agreeing that Mike "called all the shots" in DT or was the "musical director" in DT is misquoting him and is not accurate at all.  I would like to see what quotes you are referring to.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Madman Shepherd on October 08, 2017, 09:11:24 PM
EDIT: Let me clarify... I just felt like one of his reasons for leaving DT was because he was burnt out the band and was seemingly handling too much responsibility, so him taking on the same exact role in SoP seems... ironic.  So that's why I said maybe that's part of the reason he's no longer in DT.  If it's what's best for him and the band so be it, but the whole "I'm calling the shots" persona should be kept private within the band, in my opinion.

:)

Yeah Mike calling the shots is perfectly fine and I think he did a great job of doing that in DT.  The fact that Mike has to make it known that he is calling the shots though I think is part of what turns so many off to him.

I think he does that because a) he always assumes everything he does will turn to gold, and b) he wants to make sure he gets the bulk of the credit when things go well.

When things go well is the key.  When he gets a lot of blowback, suddenly it's a "band decision."  e.g. not letting John Myung write lyrics. 

Sure Petrucci might have been annoyed with the process but as soon as Mike was gone, Myung starts writing again and Petrucci doesn't have much of a problem working a little extra to get Myung's lyrics into shape for a song. 

This also is goes along with the argument that Mike should take more time writing and recording.  Sure it may have been extra work to format and organize John Myung's lyrics, but when the results are Learning to Live, Trial of Tears, and Breaking All Illusions, for the love of god just work a little more because the results are amazing. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Herrick on October 08, 2017, 09:42:17 PM
EDIT: Let me clarify... I just felt like one of his reasons for leaving DT was because he was burnt out the band and was seemingly handling too much responsibility, so him taking on the same exact role in SoP seems... ironic.  So that's why I said maybe that's part of the reason he's no longer in DT.  If it's what's best for him and the band so be it, but the whole "I'm calling the shots" persona should be kept private within the band, in my opinion.

:)

Yeah Mike calling the shots is perfectly fine and I think he did a great job of doing that in DT.  The fact that Mike has to make it known that he is calling the shots though I think is part of what turns so many off to him.

I don't think it's a big deal if an interviewer asks Portnoy how the band functions and Portnoy says he's in charge.

I wonder how much creative control he has when he is "The Leader". If the rest of the band really likes a musical part and Portnoy doesn't, does he have veto power or something?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: devieira73 on October 09, 2017, 06:41:49 AM
Yeah, so I am pretty trying to paint Jordan as agreeing that Mike "called all the shots" in DT or was the "musical director" in DT is misquoting him and is not accurate at all.  I would like to see what quotes you are referring to.
From memory, I'm 90% sure that I've read or watch somewhere Jordan saying something like that (the musical director part). But I tried google and couldn't find it, sorry.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: devieira73 on October 09, 2017, 06:46:51 AM
While in search for that, I found this, about Jordan joining DT:
https://www.getreadytorock.com/rock_stars/jordan_rudess.htm

"In 1999 you became a member of the Dream Theater family. I was about to ask you whether your participation in the Liquid Tension Experiment project was the thing that made them become interested in you, but I guess that you already named the reason that generated their interest in you.

Jordan: Yeah, yeah - well what happened is that when they originally asked me to join the group eleven years ago, I was also asked to join the Dixie Dregs, and I also had this job with the instrument company. Most importantly, my wife and I had just had our first child, and that's why I said no to them. Kevin Moore had just left the band, they had just finished the - Awake” album and they needed a new Keyboard player. I agreed to make one gig with them, a very important gig called the Foundations Forum. I did that gig and it was all cool, the vibe was great but I didn't want to do the job as a keyboard player in the band. Quite some time after that, I got the offer to participate in the - Liquid Tension Experiment” – that was a band with Mike Portnoy and John Petrucci from Dream Theater and Tony Levin, and I thought - wow, this is cool”. I mean I didn't get to join Dream Theater, but I was working with some of the main guys in the band anyway.

We ended up making two albums together as this, and even though it was a side project for them, believe me when I say that it was a very well-focused effort. After the second Liquid Tension Experiment album we had so much experience working together, composing music together, that we all saw something really brewing there. I saw Portnoy and Petrucci talking about stuff and I thought - Hm, something is happening here”. So then, they re-approached me and asked me again - you know, we've been working for some time together and we have a good vibe with you. What do you think if we asked you again, if you would become member of Dream Theater, would you join?” and I then said - Well, I think so, it's a very good time to join now” (laughs). So, we started a very good working relationship soon after Liquid Tension was over, I was in the studio with the next group which featured John Petrucci, Mike Portnoy and this other bass player who didn't look at all like Tony Levin, but was equally good, and also this quite long-haired singer who wasn't in the studio at the time but he eventually came to record his vocals for the album (laughs)."

Eddie Trunk really caught Mike off guard on that, so I truly believe he just blame "the band decision" for that, because he felt constrained by the question made, right in front of Derek.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: MirrorMask on October 09, 2017, 07:04:07 AM
I know the situation became current again because of the recent comments, but I thought it was common and widespread knowledge anyway that it was Petrucci and Portnoy wanting to bring Rudess in.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: faizoff on October 09, 2017, 07:31:32 AM
Still another 10 days left before the album drops, would be nice to talk about hating the music for a change.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: devieira73 on October 09, 2017, 07:39:58 AM
Still another 10 days left before the album drops, would be nice to talk about hating the music for a change.
Yes, you're right, sorry for bringging back that subject again. Let's talk about music, I also think it's much better :tup
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: mikeyd23 on October 09, 2017, 09:07:40 AM
I don't think there is generally anything wrong with that MP interview, I honestly would just hate to be in a band like that. Seems like Bumblewhatever, Billy, and Jeff are just kinda hired guns.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Grappler on October 09, 2017, 09:34:06 AM
I don't think there is generally anything wrong with that MP interview, I honestly would just hate to be in a band like that. Seems like Bumblewhatever, Billy, and Jeff are just kinda hired guns.

Not necessarily.  In a true band democracy, everyone gets their say and they hash it out until everyone agrees.  In this instance, Mike's not saying that members don't have a say - he's just saying that he makes the final decision.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: As I Am on October 09, 2017, 10:25:02 AM


OR...maybe that's why DT ISN'T DT anymore! :tdwn

I have to admit, your hit and run style of posting, that always smacks of "DT sucks without MP; MP rules!" is nothing if not entertaining.  Keep up the good shtick.  :lol :lol :tup :tup

 ;)

I have never said "DT sucks without MP". They're still a very good band. But, IMO, they're not anywhere near as good as when he was in the band and calling the shot. Pretty simple. But, that's just MY opinion ;D
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Skeever on October 09, 2017, 11:35:23 AM
I miss the DT of of Scenes/Six Degrees dearly.
But if this Sons of Anarchy business is any indication, we were never getting back to that. With or without Mike.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Lethean on October 09, 2017, 12:18:24 PM
The Astonishing reminded me quite a bit of Six Degrees.  In the best way - it hinted at it without being an attempt to recreate it, which never works.  Scenes and Six Degrees are my favorite DT albums, but I wouldn't say I miss that DT. The 3 MM albums have all been amazing and I don't want them to purposely try to do a part 2 of my favorites. If something is reminiscent, that would be cool.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Dreammajesty on October 09, 2017, 12:28:46 PM
Ooh i remember the Rudes experiment,hearing Jordan play the DT tunes.Holy crap i really wanted him to join DT :tup
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: mikeyd23 on October 09, 2017, 12:40:28 PM
I don't think there is generally anything wrong with that MP interview, I honestly would just hate to be in a band like that. Seems like Bumblewhatever, Billy, and Jeff are just kinda hired guns.

Not necessarily.  In a true band democracy, everyone gets their say and they hash it out until everyone agrees.  In this instance, Mike's not saying that members don't have a say - he's just saying that he makes the final decision.

Yup, I get that. Like I said, I would hate to be in a band like that, I'd personally want everyone's opinions to hold the same amount of weight. "Our band" rather than "his band".
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: MirrorMask on October 09, 2017, 02:12:45 PM
Still another 10 days left before the album drops, would be nice to talk about hating the music for a change.

Well, now you can hate the package in which said music will come in!

Pics from the various editions from Mike on FB:

https://www.facebook.com/mikeportnoyofficial/photos/pcb.1918731748144458/1918722124812087/?type=3&theater

https://www.facebook.com/mikeportnoyofficial/photos/pcb.1918731748144458/1918722398145393/?type=3&theater

https://www.facebook.com/mikeportnoyofficial/photos/pcb.1918731748144458/1918722381478728/?type=3&theater
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: SwedishGoose on October 09, 2017, 02:26:53 PM
Not gonna hate those packages I think they look great.. not gonna make the music sound better though

Still hoping that the rest of the songs fit me better than the released ones.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Stadler on October 09, 2017, 02:31:55 PM
I don't think there is generally anything wrong with that MP interview, I honestly would just hate to be in a band like that. Seems like Bumblewhatever, Billy, and Jeff are just kinda hired guns.

Not necessarily.  In a true band democracy, everyone gets their say and they hash it out until everyone agrees.  In this instance, Mike's not saying that members don't have a say - he's just saying that he makes the final decision.

The idea that most bands are a "democracy" is kind of a fallacy.  They are all run differently, but most bands have a decision-maker, even if that decision-maker wields a benevolent hand.   Steve Harris.  Mick Jagger.  The Edge.   Lennon (at first); McCartney (later).    Chris Squire.  Jerry Garcia.   Tony Banks.   Noel Gallagher.   Paul Stanley. 

Rush is one of the very few that really do operate as a democratic collective.   
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: gmillerdrake on October 09, 2017, 02:40:00 PM
Not gonna hate those packages I think they look great..


That's one thing I won't argue. the packaging and presentation looks awesome!!! Love the album cover.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Adami on October 09, 2017, 02:41:30 PM
Yup, the design looks lovely.

Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ganpondorodf on October 09, 2017, 03:51:12 PM
Rush is one of the very few that really do operate as a democratic collective.

From what you know. Maybe their public statements are sarcastic? Maybe Peart writes every note and it's an elaborate joke to which we'll never be privy?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bill1971 on October 09, 2017, 04:02:56 PM
Still another 10 days left before the album drops, would be nice to talk about hating the music for a change.

Well, now you can hate the package in which said music will come in!

Pics from the various editions from Mike on FB:

https://www.facebook.com/mikeportnoyofficial/photos/pcb.1918731748144458/1918722124812087/?type=3&theater

https://www.facebook.com/mikeportnoyofficial/photos/pcb.1918731748144458/1918722398145393/?type=3&theater

https://www.facebook.com/mikeportnoyofficial/photos/pcb.1918731748144458/1918722381478728/?type=3&theater

That is a very funny comment.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: KevShmev on October 09, 2017, 05:21:17 PM


OR...maybe that's why DT ISN'T DT anymore! :tdwn

I have to admit, your hit and run style of posting, that always smacks of "DT sucks without MP; MP rules!" is nothing if not entertaining.  Keep up the good shtick.  :lol :lol :tup :tup

 ;)

I have never said "DT sucks without MP". They're still a very good band. But, IMO, they're not anywhere near as good as when he was in the band and calling the shot. Pretty simple. But, that's just MY opinion ;D

I didn't say you did; I said your posting smacks of that, which means you say it without actually saying it.  Hey, we're all entitled to our opinions, if you think they are a lesser band without their bossy ex-drummer, more power to ya, but the lack of substance in your posts is always glaring. You never seem interested in any real discussion, which is why I said you are a hit and run poster.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Schurftkut on October 09, 2017, 06:25:06 PM
does anyone else think the font used for Sons of Apollo resembles the Dream Theater font?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: devieira73 on October 09, 2017, 07:15:29 PM
Yes it has that glass/steel feel too, for lack of a better term.
I loved the cover from the beginning!

Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: devieira73 on October 09, 2017, 07:16:30 PM
or lack of a better english  ;D
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: nobloodyname on October 10, 2017, 12:23:06 AM
Still another 10 days left before the album drops, would be nice to talk about hating the music for a change.

Well, now you can hate the package in which said music will come in!


Very well done :biggrin:
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: As I Am on October 10, 2017, 10:49:37 AM


OR...maybe that's why DT ISN'T DT anymore! :tdwn

I have to admit, your hit and run style of posting, that always smacks of "DT sucks without MP; MP rules!" is nothing if not entertaining.  Keep up the good shtick.  :lol :lol :tup :tup

 ;)

I have never said "DT sucks without MP". They're still a very good band. But, IMO, they're not anywhere near as good as when he was in the band and calling the shot. Pretty simple. But, that's just MY opinion ;D

I didn't say you did; I said your posting smacks of that, which means you say it without actually saying it.  Hey, we're all entitled to our opinions, if you think they are a lesser band without their bossy ex-drummer, more power to ya, but the lack of substance in your posts is always glaring. You never seem interested in any real discussion, which is why I said you are a hit and run poster.

That's basically because I let Stadler do my talking for me. He's much better at it! ;)
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: devieira73 on October 10, 2017, 09:28:48 PM
From MP Facebook:
We're gonna step up the Track Commentaries to give you MORE clips before the Oct 20 release...stay tuned for LABYRINTH tomorrow, followed by OPUS MAXIMUS on Fri and LOST IN OBLIVION on Monday!

Maybe a change of strategy to show more of the prog side of SoA? Cool, bring it on!
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: SwedishGoose on October 10, 2017, 10:23:24 PM
And a good way to get people to talk about the music rather than the Del Fuvianisms..... I approve
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: pcs90 on October 10, 2017, 10:30:50 PM
Smart move. Hopefully they stick to this strategy and stop the silly drama.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ariich on October 11, 2017, 02:55:31 AM
Not gonna hate those packages I think they look great.. not gonna make the music sound better though

Still hoping that the rest of the songs fit me better than the released ones.
You're crucially missing DT and JP from that list.

There really aren't that many bands that are true democracies. And there's nothing wrong whatsoever with that.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: KevShmev on October 11, 2017, 05:57:48 AM
Smart move. Hopefully they stick to this strategy and stop the silly drama.

No such luck.

https://www.thenationalstudent.com/Music/2017-10-10/strategic_wankery_an_interview_with_sons_of_apollo.html

And given the melodic and hugely intricate nature of Sons of Apollo, as well as their affinity for big, lengthy songs, many fans and commentators have compared the new group to Dream Theater. But that’s an idea that the Del Fuvio Brothers seem to soundly reject.

“Even though we have sick chops, we’re a rock band,” Derek states. “They’re a progressive band, there’s no rock n’ roll in their DNA. None of them have ever played in a rock band in their entire lives. We’re a whole different animal.
“That’s what separates Sons of Apollo from all the other prog bands out there, it’s that this band has serious rock pedigree. And you can’t download an app for that. If you don’t have it, you don’t have it.”
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: The Silent Cody on October 11, 2017, 06:04:59 AM
 :corn  :corn :corn :corn
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: KevShmev on October 11, 2017, 06:07:24 AM
Yep, the band that wrote the music to The Glass Prison has no rock in their DNA. :rollin :rollin :rollin :rollin
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Nekov on October 11, 2017, 06:10:09 AM
 :facepalm:

Jesus Christ, these guys just can't stop saying the wrong things
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: The Walrus on October 11, 2017, 06:42:42 AM
I already can't wait for this fucking band to call it a day
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: devieira73 on October 11, 2017, 06:51:50 AM
Well, Derek keeps saying things in a... not too diplomatical way, but I understand what he's saying, I also agree that DT don't have that "rock and roll attittude" in its DNA. They seem like a bunch or nerds/geeks playing rock and that's why I identify myself with them so much. So what if they don't have that rock n roll vibe? In fact, I think its their charm.
I'm a tremendous fan of MP and, in different dregrees, I like all the bands he's involved. I like a lot Planet X, Platypus, Derek solo albums and BCC. But DT is my favorite band of all the time (still it is), my fave phase of the band is from I&W to Metropolis 2 and I do think the last 3 albums are better than SC and BC&SL (which I still like a lot). I also think JR>KM>DS (but for a close margin) and, at last, I think TA is a great album, it has some of the finest moments of the band, but have some flaws. ;D
That was just to say, I'm happy that SoA exists and I think we don't have to treat music like if we have to choose some side of it. I know, this applies to Derek or anybody too, and it would help if the musicians treated that in a more diplomatical or "letting the music do the talk" way (which I think DT do well).
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: devieira73 on October 11, 2017, 06:52:33 AM
Sorry, double post.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: gmillerdrake on October 11, 2017, 07:00:17 AM
I already can't wait for this fucking band to call it a day

No kidding. Not that I ever developed an opinion towards Derek when he was in DT given he was FIRED so quickly, but this guy is just a friggin asshole. Period. Paragraph. End. It's not his 'funny' persona or some schtick.....more than enough evidence out there now to successfully diagnose him.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Orbert on October 11, 2017, 07:01:52 AM
Derek says DT has no rock and roll in their DNA, but SoA does.  At one time, he and Mike were 2/5 of DT.  Did they have rock and roll in their DNA then?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: devieira73 on October 11, 2017, 07:04:09 AM
Derek says DT has no rock and roll in their DNA, but SoA does.  At one time, he and Mike were 2/5 of DT.  Did they have rock and roll in their DNA then?
Only then. Also only then DT had personalities! :rollin
Music:
https://www.youtube.com/results?sp=EgIIAlAU&search_query=sons+of+apollo
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: MirrorMask on October 11, 2017, 07:12:47 AM
The idea to draw the attention of DT fans not happy with the latest outputs is ok, it's the execution that leaves a lot to be desired.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: devieira73 on October 11, 2017, 07:13:29 AM
Ok, not a lot of new music then! Cool intro/vocals, great bass lines in the end and a mini tour! :biggrin:
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: The Walrus on October 11, 2017, 07:19:44 AM
I already can't wait for this fucking band to call it a day

No kidding. Not that I ever developed an opinion towards Derek when he was in DT given he was FIRED so quickly, but this guy is just a friggin asshole. Period. Paragraph. End. It's not his 'funny' persona or some schtick.....more than enough evidence out there now to successfully diagnose him.

Why don't we try shock treatment? It might really do him some help.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: mikeyd23 on October 11, 2017, 07:26:56 AM
Yep, the band that wrote the music to The Glass Prison has no rock in their DNA. :rollin :rollin :rollin :rollin

Yeah for real.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: RoeDent on October 11, 2017, 07:52:32 AM
They must just get a kick out of taking advantage of humans' tendency towards getting riled up at things. It's a conscious effort to ignore them. An analogy: Say someone gets bullied at school, then the bullied ends up joining the bully's side, so to speak. That's what this feels like to me. Portnoy fired Sherinian from DT (as he claims he was the one in control, he assumes responsibility for all decisions, including firing Derek). Now they've teamed up outside DT and have these ridiculous digs at DT.

Although technically, shouldn't DS be alienating MP with that statement? Portnoy was part of the DT that had/have no rock n roll in their DNA for 25 years. So Portnoy has no rock n roll in his DNA then.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: MirrorMask on October 11, 2017, 07:56:10 AM
Well, they could always turn it around and saying that Portnoy was the only one with rock n' roll DNA - he was the most "metal" of them anyway.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: AngelBack on October 11, 2017, 07:59:57 AM
I think Derek may have some WWE in his DNA.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Samsara on October 11, 2017, 08:02:16 AM


No such luck.

https://www.thenationalstudent.com/Music/2017-10-10/strategic_wankery_an_interview_with_sons_of_apollo.html

And given the melodic and hugely intricate nature of Sons of Apollo, as well as their affinity for big, lengthy songs, many fans and commentators have compared the new group to Dream Theater. But that’s an idea that the Del Fuvio Brothers seem to soundly reject.

“Even though we have sick chops, we’re a rock band,” Derek states. “They’re a progressive band, there’s no rock n’ roll in their DNA. None of them have ever played in a rock band in their entire lives. We’re a whole different animal.
“That’s what separates Sons of Apollo from all the other prog bands out there, it’s that this band has serious rock pedigree. And you can’t download an app for that. If you don’t have it, you don’t have it.”


I don't have a problem with what DS said here. It is truth. All of the guys in Sons of Apollo have played in blues-based rock bands, including Portnoy (Winery Dogs). The members of Dream Theater...really haven't. There's a swagger to that, that honestly, Dream Theater doesn't really have. Sure, they can play ANYTHING, but there is an attitude and swagger in rock bands that Dream Theater just doesn't have.

I get it -- DS is taking another swipe at DT. But this one, to me, really wasn't as bad. He's just stating the truth, bluntly.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on October 11, 2017, 08:13:58 AM
Derek says DT has no rock and roll in their DNA, but SoA does.  At one time, he and Mike were 2/5 of DT.  Did they have rock and roll in their DNA then?

(https://blog.memes.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/Philosoraptor-meme3.jpg)

These guys definitely say a lot of baffling things that can easily be tossed back at them.  I don't get it like the rest of you.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: faizoff on October 11, 2017, 08:16:54 AM
I get what Derek is talking about and he may be right. I don't take it as a bad thing. It's kinda like AC/DC has a swagger with their songs that just have this rock n roll thing. At this point I think DS is just saying shit along his line of humor and whether anyone likes it or laughs with him it doesn't matter.

It's hard to drown out the noise of all this back and forth jabs and frankly I'm trying not to care. So going by those comments of his I'm not sure it warrants the purchase of the instrumental version for me. I think I'll just stick to the regular CD.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: The Walrus on October 11, 2017, 08:22:11 AM
I think Derek may have some WWE in his DNA.

Stone Cold Sherinian?

(https://s1.postimg.org/1rpx5mtjjz/Untitled.jpg)
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Orbert on October 11, 2017, 08:38:16 AM
I get it -- DS is taking another swipe at DT. But this one, to me, really wasn't as bad. He's just stating the truth, bluntly.

"None of them have ever played in a rock band in their entire lives. We’re a whole different animal."

That's the part I have trouble with.  We all grew up playing in rock and roll bands.  Taking cheap shots is bad enough, but just plain making shit up is a different level of heinous.  Fuck Derek.

By the way, Derek, it's Progressive Rock -- by definition, a subgenre of Rock.  Saying DT is not a rock band is just stupid.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: the keyboard wizard on October 11, 2017, 08:43:48 AM
Alright, I finally managed to get a promo link from the French promoter. If you have specific questions, you can ask. If the mods want a proof, I can send a screenshot of my promo link. All I can say already, is that I totally agree with noxon's review.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: gmillerdrake on October 11, 2017, 08:45:44 AM


I get it -- DS is taking another swipe at DT. But this one, to me, really wasn't as bad. He's just stating the truth being a dick, bluntly.

fixed that.

Derek and MP can't have it both ways. Are you 'the new kings of Prog' like you billed yourself up until your first singles came out which revealed....ehhh....not so much royalty going on.....or are you a rock band with occasional 'sick chops'? Take your pic because in Derek's own definition they can't be both? Can't be progressive AND be in a 'rock band'.....he said it, not me.

Kuddos to those of you who can ignore him and MP's continued swipes at DT. More power to you. I can't ignore it when someone continues to insult people I look up to, and yes I look up to JP/JR/JMX and JLB. (Love MM also, but his history w/ me is new) What their music has done for me personally can't be quantified in words so when jealous a$$hats like Derek start slinging mud at them it ticks me off.

And, this whole Del Fuvio brother act or whatever it is...really...is this a middle school club?....is not only old already....it's just an "excuse" and fall back for them to say..."just playing, you don't 'get' us" when they say utter ignorant and ridiculous crap like this.

These guys are too talented NOT to have some cool sounding songs/riffs on this album...I'm sure there will be some moments. But at this point in my eyes they are just some really hot chic with a smoking body who you really want to shag...then when you start talking to her everything she says is racist, she burps and farts every three seconds and you find out she has anal warts. Not interested. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bill1971 on October 11, 2017, 08:45:52 AM
Smart move. Hopefully they stick to this strategy and stop the silly drama.

No such luck.

https://www.thenationalstudent.com/Music/2017-10-10/strategic_wankery_an_interview_with_sons_of_apollo.html

And given the melodic and hugely intricate nature of Sons of Apollo, as well as their affinity for big, lengthy songs, many fans and commentators have compared the new group to Dream Theater. But that’s an idea that the Del Fuvio Brothers seem to soundly reject.

“Even though we have sick chops, we’re a rock band,” Derek states. “They’re a progressive band, there’s no rock n’ roll in their DNA. None of them have ever played in a rock band in their entire lives. We’re a whole different animal.
“That’s what separates Sons of Apollo from all the other prog bands out there, it’s that this band has serious rock pedigree. And you can’t download an app for that. If you don’t have it, you don’t have it.”


Ok Derek, so what? Most of my favorite bands haven't, Rush, Dream Theater, Yes, Queensryche, Pink Floyd. I don't understand how that is a selling point.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Lethean on October 11, 2017, 08:46:05 AM
There's The Jelly Jam as well, which seems like a rock band to me.

(Whether it's considered "rock and roll" or not - I guess that depends. I've heard people say that Van Halen isn't rock and roll - they're hard rock.)

From my perspective, there's a way to say something and a way not to. If you want to describe your band as having more hard rock or rock and roll influences, great. Go for it.  No need to bring up apps and stuff like that.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Hourglass Prison on October 11, 2017, 08:49:47 AM
Lava lamps and shag carpeting, omg SO hardcore you guys.  :\
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: emtee on October 11, 2017, 08:55:51 AM
From what I've heard they are not going to be "a whole different animal"...they are going to be the same kind of animal
I've heard many times before. And yes, IMO, it all falls under the rock header. Prog. Metal. Blues. It's rock music.

It's feeling kind of like Spinal Tap. Let's see if DS goes for the sausages during their performances.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Stadler on October 11, 2017, 08:57:54 AM
Derek says DT has no rock and roll in their DNA, but SoA does.  At one time, he and Mike were 2/5 of DT.  Did they have rock and roll in their DNA then?

Well, whether you agree with the comment or not, you have Derek Sherinian (Alice Cooper, Yngwie Malmsteen, Kiss, Black Country Communion) and Mike Portnoy (Adrenaline Mob, A7X, Twisted Sister, Metal Allegiance) versus Jordan Rudess (Annie Haslam, Prefab Sprout, David Bowie).  I understand the impetus for the comment, just not the need or the execution.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Stadler on October 11, 2017, 09:00:55 AM


I get it -- DS is taking another swipe at DT. But this one, to me, really wasn't as bad. He's just stating the truth being a dick, bluntly.

fixed that.

Derek and MP can't have it both ways. Are you 'the new kings of Prog' like you billed yourself up until your first singles came out which revealed....ehhh....not so much royalty going on.....or are you a rock band with occasional 'sick chops'? Take your pic because in Derek's own definition they can't be both? Can't be progressive AND be in a 'rock band'.....he said it, not me.

Kuddos to those of you who can ignore him and MP's continued swipes at DT. More power to you. I can't ignore it when someone continues to insult people I look up to, and yes I look up to JP/JR/JMX and JLB. (Love MM also, but his history w/ me is new) What their music has done for me personally can't be quantified in words so when jealous a$$hats like Derek start slinging mud at them it ticks me off.

And, this whole Del Fuvio brother act or whatever it is...really...is this a middle school club?....is not only old already....it's just an "excuse" and fall back for them to say..."just playing, you don't 'get' us" when they say utter ignorant and ridiculous crap like this.

These guys are too talented NOT to have some cool sounding songs/riffs on this album...I'm sure there will be some moments. But at this point in my eyes they are just some really hot chic with a smoking body who you really want to shag...then when you start talking to her everything she says is racist, she burps and farts every three seconds and you find out she has anal warts. Not interested.

I was wondering what your point was, then I saw anal warts. I get it now.  :) :) :) :) :)
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: DTA on October 11, 2017, 09:02:28 AM
I'm still waiting for a clip of anything that sounds remotely proggy and not "Adrenaline Mob + Keyboards".
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: gmillerdrake on October 11, 2017, 09:03:16 AM
Lava lamps and shag carpeting, omg SO hardcore you guys.  :\

Don't forget that very metal 'soul patch'    :metal   
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: gmillerdrake on October 11, 2017, 09:04:39 AM
I was wondering what your point was

point is you either have class or you don't. You can't download an app for it.....
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: The Walrus on October 11, 2017, 09:07:40 AM
'Del Fuvian Bravado' - is 'Del Fuvian' Armenian for asshole?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ariich on October 11, 2017, 09:19:22 AM
Right, this thread has descended into insults directed towards Derek and Mike, which is not cool. Cut it out now. Next person who does that is getting a week off.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Stadler on October 11, 2017, 09:22:37 AM
Smart move. Hopefully they stick to this strategy and stop the silly drama.

No such luck.

https://www.thenationalstudent.com/Music/2017-10-10/strategic_wankery_an_interview_with_sons_of_apollo.html

And given the melodic and hugely intricate nature of Sons of Apollo, as well as their affinity for big, lengthy songs, many fans and commentators have compared the new group to Dream Theater. But that’s an idea that the Del Fuvio Brothers seem to soundly reject.

“Even though we have sick chops, we’re a rock band,” Derek states. “They’re a progressive band, there’s no rock n’ roll in their DNA. None of them have ever played in a rock band in their entire lives. We’re a whole different animal.
“That’s what separates Sons of Apollo from all the other prog bands out there, it’s that this band has serious rock pedigree. And you can’t download an app for that. If you don’t have it, you don’t have it.”


Ok Derek, so what? Most of my favorite bands haven't, Rush, Dream Theater, Yes, Queensryche, Pink Floyd. I don't understand how that is a selling point.

You might not be the only one buying this.    I'm not saying I agree with his comment - I don't (see above and see below) - but my first handful of records were Kiss, Maiden, Priest, Sabbath, and Zeppelin.   I got into prog later, but even when I did, the prog that got to me the most was the prog that could ROCK.  Yes was a ROCK BAND at heart, as was Genesis m(when Collins joined), whereas a lot of prog just wasn't.   Crimson was awesome when it rocked (Red, "Fracture").  At the time, I thought they sucked when they didn't (it took me a long time to get into the Discipline/Beat/3OAPP trilogy), and was thrilled when they went back to the "heavy" for Thrak and (especially) the Power To Believe.   

This particular quote isn't selling me, because a) I've heard two songs, and b) that's not what I'm looking to this band to give me, but I can definitely see why the idea might appeal to some. 

The thing that got me into Dream Theater was that it was a cool and new amalgamation of things.  I like to say "Iron Maiden and Rush, with Steve Perry singing".   
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Stadler on October 11, 2017, 09:24:50 AM
I was wondering what your point was

point is you either have class or you don't. You can't download an app for it.....

No, no, your comment was that she was hot but all these other things ruin it for you, and I was joking that it wasn't ruined until the anal warts.   It was funny in my head.  ;) 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: mikeyd23 on October 11, 2017, 09:28:55 AM
I was wondering what your point was

point is you either have class or you don't. You can't download an app for it.....

No, no, your comment was that she was hot but all these other things ruin it for you, and I was joking that it wasn't ruined until the anal warts.   It was funny in my head.  ;)

 :lol It was funny, I got it at least. That said - I tend to agree with Gary's larger point.

Also - isn't DT pretty much known for making Progressive Metal a thing? Meaning they are in some form a metal band? Since when is metal not rock?

This discussion of genre labels is tailor made for DTF.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on October 11, 2017, 09:38:21 AM
If Derek was talking about a Rock N Roll swagger, than I guess he is right. I do think him and MP have more of a rock n roll attitude than the guys currently in DT.  But there's some pretty awesome hard rock moments in DT's music that to me, if someone said they aren't a genre of rock or they don't have rock in their DNA, then I think they are way off base. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bill1971 on October 11, 2017, 09:45:37 AM
If Derek was talking about a Rock N Roll swagger, than I guess he is right. I do think him and MP have more of a rock n roll attitude than the guys currently in DT.  But there's some pretty awesome hard rock moments in DT's music that to me, if someone said they aren't a genre of rock or they don't have rock in their DNA, then I think they are way off base.

I guess they do have more rock n roll swagger as a band than Dream Theater. In that case I am now going to buy the album. How can I resist?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: vtgrad on October 11, 2017, 10:05:33 AM
I was wondering what your point was

point is you either have class or you don't. You can't download an app for it.....

No, no, your comment was that she was hot but all these other things ruin it for you, and I was joking that it wasn't ruined until the anal warts.   It was funny in my head.  ;)

Nah... you can still shag her.  Just wear cloths-pins for the nose, ear-buds for the ears (maybe listen to Repentance while your working up a lather), and double the condoms up (thinking of Murr).  Some anti-fungal spray for cleanup afterwards and your good to go...

But I do see Gary's point.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: pcs90 on October 11, 2017, 10:28:47 AM
If Derek was talking about a Rock N Roll swagger, than I guess he is right. I do think him and MP have more of a rock n roll attitude than the guys currently in DT.  But there's some pretty awesome hard rock moments in DT's music that to me, if someone said they aren't a genre of rock or they don't have rock in their DNA, then I think they are way off base. 
Yeah...I understand what Derek's saying, but at the same time, as usual, it wasn't the best way to say it. Also pretty sure the members of DT did grow up playing in rock bands, no? Or at least JP and JM...

I like variety in my music. DT has really heavy moments that rock hard. They also have lots of more emotional moments, really technical prog ones, etc... The vibe I get is this new album will have a very similar sound throughout, which so far does not interest me. We'll see...
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: rumborak on October 11, 2017, 10:57:49 AM
I must have missed the memo that Rock and Roll is the measuring stick for good music. As if the existence of it immediately put a band into the next higher shelf.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Ben_Jamin on October 11, 2017, 11:06:09 AM
That quote really caters to the fans that say MP was DT.

I'll check out those clips when released, if I remember about them. Or else I'll just wait till the album is out.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Samsara on October 11, 2017, 11:45:08 AM
I get what Derek is talking about and he may be right. I don't take it as a bad thing. It's kinda like AC/DC has a swagger with their songs that just have this rock n roll thing. At this point I think DS is just saying shit along his line of humor and whether anyone likes it or laughs with him it doesn't matter.

It's hard to drown out the noise of all this back and forth jabs and frankly I'm trying not to care. So going by those comments of his I'm not sure it warrants the purchase of the instrumental version for me. I think I'll just stick to the regular CD.

yup, exactly what I am thinking as well. I also only purchased the standard CD. Not really into buying instrumentals. Had they did some covers on a second CD, that would have been an automatic purchase.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Schurftkut on October 11, 2017, 12:30:48 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yQd9H-qdUR8

Jeff is such a difference in personality from the Del Fuvio bros
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: RodrigoAltaf on October 11, 2017, 12:53:16 PM
I just got off the phone with Derek, and he was so cool!!! I'll publish the interview in Portuguese in a few days.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Nekov on October 11, 2017, 12:53:52 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yQd9H-qdUR8

Jeff is such a difference in personality from the Del Fuvio bros

I had never heard the guy before, and out of that interview only I can say I really like the guy. As you say, miles away from what MP and DS are doing right now, he should probably call them and ask them to tone it down a little bit.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: emtee on October 11, 2017, 12:59:54 PM
JSS seems like a great guy. When I first heard he was in this band I went back and found some vids of his brief stint with
Journey and I was thinking we were going to get more of his Perry'esque vocals...more mid to higher range but so far
he is far more like Russel Allen than I was suspecting. I hope there are some songs where he can utilize that range in his
voice. The dude can truly sing.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: gzarruk on October 11, 2017, 01:45:28 PM
I get it -- DS is taking another swipe at DT. But this one, to me, really wasn't as bad. He's just stating the truth, bluntly.

"None of them have ever played in a rock band in their entire lives. We’re a whole different animal."

That's the part I have trouble with.  We all grew up playing in rock and roll bands.  Taking cheap shots is bad enough, but just plain making shit up is a different level of heinous.  Fuck Derek.

By the way, Derek, it's Progressive Rock -- by definition, a subgenre of Rock.  Saying DT is not a rock band is just stupid.

Derek was with Myung on Platypus, before they became a trio as The Jelly Jam. This means, since none of the DT guys has ever played in a rock band, that Platypus was never rock? That’s cool, Derek  :tup
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: RodrigoAltaf on October 11, 2017, 02:03:52 PM
Why did Derek leave Platypus?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ganpondorodf on October 11, 2017, 02:07:58 PM
Key issue is whether or not JSS has heard that I took one in the face
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Nekov on October 11, 2017, 02:11:54 PM
Why did Derek leave Platypus?

Not sure but I googled it and came across this interview with DS. https://www.ram.org/music/articles/sherinterview.html (https://www.ram.org/music/articles/sherinterview.html)

Quote
How do you feel about the whole dream theatre situation?

I feel that bands change members all the time. They had a distinct vision of where they want to take the band and I have no hard feelings. The last four years have been very good for me and I've had a lot of good opportunities. I don't want to get into a negative thing because I don't have any bad feelings.. Jordan is a friend of mine and he's an amazing keyboard player and I'm sure they'll do great with him.

Nice way to show it...
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: The Walrus on October 11, 2017, 02:13:03 PM
I don't think Derek 'left' Platypus. I don't know much about that group other than it became The Jelly Jam without Derek there, but it seems like they just called it a day after the second album and then the guys formed a 'new' group.

Also: Interview with MP in 2000 as part of a 'who do you prefer?' questionnaire: (https://metalsludge.tv/classic/?p=27262)
Quote
Kevin Morgan or Derek Sherinian = Who’s Kevin Morgan? Do you mean our first keyboard player Kevin Moore? If so, my answer is: Jordan Rudess.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: MirrorMask on October 11, 2017, 02:19:29 PM
I remember that interview! It was brutally honest both with the questions asked, and the answers given.

That Metal Sludge site had an habit of doing interviews like that - I still remember one with Ripper Owens and one of the questions was "How long do you think you have before they boot you out and bring back Rob Halford?"  :biggrin: (His reply was "Longer than you'll be around", adding that it was a joke, he took all the interview in good spirits)
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Samsara on October 11, 2017, 02:38:35 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yQd9H-qdUR8

Jeff is such a difference in personality from the Del Fuvio bros

I had never heard the guy before, and out of that interview only I can say I really like the guy. As you say, miles away from what MP and DS are doing right now, he should probably call them and ask them to tone it down a little bit.

Jeff is really awesome. I interviewed him seven years ago as we were approaching Christmas 2010 -- https://breakdownroom.net/jss-110.html. Talk about down to earth. What's not in that article (and should have been, looking it back over), was the story of Jeff as a person. He called me after getting back from Christmas shopping on a day off from TSO, exhausted, talking about life, etc. Totally down-to-earth, and as non-egotistical as they come. Sure, he was talking to the media, but if you do enough of these interviews, you can tell who is legit, and who isn't. JSS is.

I called him one other time in prep for a bigger story I ended up ultimately not doing, to see if he was up for an interview (he was), and he completely remembered the piece I did earlier. Nice guy, and here's hoping Sons of Apollo does well for him.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Madman Shepherd on October 11, 2017, 03:31:15 PM
I remember that interview! It was brutally honest both with the questions asked, and the answers given.

That Metal Sludge site had an habit of doing interviews like that - I still remember one with Ripper Owens and one of the questions was "How long do you think you have before they boot you out and bring back Rob Halford?"  :biggrin: (His reply was "Longer than you'll be around", adding that it was a joke, he took all the interview in good spirits)

Didn't Mike also rip on Neil Peart for (surprise, surprise) taking something Neil said out of context?  Then he showed some real class and said something like, "I feel bad because of the personal stuff he is going through (this was around the time Neil lost his wife AND daughter) but I lost all respect for him."
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: KevShmev on October 11, 2017, 05:07:27 PM
On the bright side, once this band falls apart, Portnoy and Sherinian can tour together again and display their rock pedigree in 2024 when Twisted Sister and Billy Idol co-headline a tour at casinos all over America!
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: SystematicThought on October 11, 2017, 05:59:54 PM
That... would... actually be kind of a cool tour. Billy's last album was actually quite good.

When I saw Cheap Trick and Peter Frampton out at a casino conference room ballroom in the middle of Nowhere, Minnesota, it was actually a really cool and intimate show.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: PetFish on October 11, 2017, 06:15:54 PM
It's hard to drown out the noise of all this back and forth jabs and frankly I'm trying not to care.

Except that there's NO back, or there's no forth, whatever, it's ONE SIDE relentlessly taking stupid shots at the other.

If it really was a back-and-forth where it's a bunch of chums trash talking each other, then it actually would be kind of fun, but we all know it's not like that at all which makes the one side that's doing all the mouthing-off that much more shameful.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: faizoff on October 11, 2017, 07:02:55 PM
I meant the back and forth between members here in this thread.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: DragonAttack on October 11, 2017, 09:13:33 PM
Jeff Scott Soto at a UK Queen convention in 2003

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yob0Wpgcxns

Met him at the North American convention around that time.  Had the 'star' attitude, along with being down to earth.  Spoke a few times, and his Queen IQ and love of the band was way up there.  'Stone Cold Crazy' and the redo before 'Dear Friends' are worth checking out.  As well as 'Somebody To Love' and a pretty good accounting on 'The Show Must Go On'.

I've been following this thread from the outset.  I was hoping SoA would get a good roll going, so that next year they'd be playing to decent to larger sized crowds.  Would like to see JSS as THE front man of a band of this type.  MP is what really drew me into a band back in 2003 when I went to see Queensryche, knowing nothing of DT.  Bought just about everything under the sun that was offered afterwards.  Followed him on his forum occasionally, which is where I learned of his departure.  I have the two Flying Colors' releases, but nothing else.  AMob and MA songs weren't worth more than a ten second check in per track (just not my style of music). Sheehan and Bumblefoot are more than talented, down to earth, clever and fun guys to be around from viewing the interviews.  And they have a talented and known keyboardist in these circles.

The often negative comments directed towards a majority of what should be their fan base, seems to be a wash/rinse/repeat as far as shooting themselves in the foot.  You can't afford to alienate a single fan, because the numbers grow.  If it's only a hundred or so, that's a significant portion of your fan base.  I really enjoy Mike's enthusiasm and passion during his interviews.  It's missed in Dream Theater.  The stress and drama are not.  That was apparent during the 'Tour of Events' concert I attended. 

I've gone from all out enthusiasm to varying degrees on a daily basis of 'will I buy this or not?'  Which is a shame.  I can only assume that there are others who feel the same way.

Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: KevShmev on October 11, 2017, 09:22:39 PM
The only reason I am still paying attention to this thread is for the silliness of their comments and the entertainment that results in this thread as a result. :lol :lol

I have already tuned out the band as being one I will check out.  The first two songs sounded rather blah.  Not interested.  Too music good music out there already to waste my time on what sounds like A-Mob plus keys, with a singer who doesn't appeal to me at all.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: gzarruk on October 11, 2017, 09:24:47 PM
On the bright side, once this band falls apart, Portnoy and Sherinian can tour together again and display their rock pedigree in 2024 when Twisted Sister and Billy Idol co-headline a tour at casinos all over America!

 :rollin :rollin
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: pcs90 on October 11, 2017, 10:05:40 PM
The only reason I am still paying attention to this thread is for the silliness of their comments and the entertainment that results in this thread as a result. :lol :lol
Same here!
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: RodrigoAltaf on October 11, 2017, 10:38:26 PM
I´m not a musician, but listening to Signs of the Time just now, it struck me how some of the verses and chorus have a similar structure to The Glass Prison. Could anyone who understands composition ellaborate on that?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: noxon on October 12, 2017, 04:16:42 AM
If you start going down that rabbithole, you can get almost any song to sound like its based on the songstructure of another song. it just depends on which areas you decide to focus on, and which to ignore. Which is why that analysis for "adtoe" just being "iaw" is so flawed - he's focusing only on the things he arbitrarily set up as similarities and ignoring everything thats not similar.

I can get God of the sun to sound like it really is just a remake of Nightmare to remember...
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: MirrorMask on October 12, 2017, 04:23:39 AM
I´m not a musician, but listening to Signs of the Time just now, it struck me how some of the verses and chorus have a similar structure to The Glass Prison. Could anyone who understands composition ellaborate on that?

I'm not a musician either so that disqualifies me from a professional opinion, but the last thing I think about when I hear Signs of the Time is The Glass Prison. I actually like the song a lot, the chorus is very good.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Fritzinger on October 12, 2017, 05:29:58 AM
I´m not a musician, but listening to Signs of the Time just now, it struck me how some of the verses and chorus have a similar structure to The Glass Prison. Could anyone who understands composition ellaborate on that?

I haven't heard Sign Of The Times, but I get that that can happen sometimes. I sometimes tend to compare songs to each other in terms of structure, used harmonies or intervals in riffs or just their feeling or atmosphere. I guess to a certain point this is also a subjective thing, especially in terms of the last factor. Also I think that it's neither a bad thing to do this, nor is it a bad thing if a song resembles another (only if it's shamelessly copied).
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Stadler on October 12, 2017, 07:44:31 AM
That... would... actually be kind of a cool tour. Billy's last album was actually quite good.

When I saw Cheap Trick and Peter Frampton out at a casino conference room ballroom in the middle of Nowhere, Minnesota, it was actually a really cool and intimate show.

I saw Asia - all original members - for free at Mohegan Sun, in what equates to a small(er) club setting.  Can't beat that. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: King Postwhore on October 12, 2017, 07:49:31 AM
That... would... actually be kind of a cool tour. Billy's last album was actually quite good.

When I saw Cheap Trick and Peter Frampton out at a casino conference room ballroom in the middle of Nowhere, Minnesota, it was actually a really cool and intimate show.

I saw Asia - all original members - for free at Mohegan Sun, in what equates to a small(er) club setting.  Can't beat that.

I saw Toto and Nelson there as well.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: The Walrus on October 12, 2017, 08:11:45 AM
I saw Toto in a casino once, cheap fold-out chairs and all. I'm almost positive I was the youngest person there.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bill1971 on October 12, 2017, 08:36:12 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yQd9H-qdUR8

Jeff is such a difference in personality from the Del Fuvio bros

I had never heard the guy before, and out of that interview only I can say I really like the guy. As you say, miles away from what MP and DS are doing right now, he should probably call them and ask them to tone it down a little bit.

Jeff is really awesome. I interviewed him seven years ago as we were approaching Christmas 2010 -- https://breakdownroom.net/jss-110.html. Talk about down to earth. What's not in that article (and should have been, looking it back over), was the story of Jeff as a person. He called me after getting back from Christmas shopping on a day off from TSO, exhausted, talking about life, etc. Totally down-to-earth, and as non-egotistical as they come. Sure, he was talking to the media, but if you do enough of these interviews, you can tell who is legit, and who isn't. JSS is.

I called him one other time in prep for a bigger story I ended up ultimately not doing, to see if he was up for an interview (he was), and he completely remembered the piece I did earlier. Nice guy, and here's hoping Sons of Apollo does well for him.

That's very cool to hear. I do get a good vibe from interviews I've seen with him. Maybe I'll check out his solo album instead of Sons of Apollo.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bosk1 on October 12, 2017, 08:58:22 AM
On the bright side, once this band falls apart, Portnoy and Sherinian can tour together again and display their rock pedigree in 2024 when Twisted Sister and Billy Idol co-headline a tour at casinos all over America!
That... would... actually be kind of a cool tour.

:lol  I was actually thinking the exact same thing.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bill1971 on October 12, 2017, 09:08:50 AM
The only reason I am still paying attention to this thread is for the silliness of their comments and the entertainment that results in this thread as a result. :lol :lol

I have already tuned out the band as being one I will check out.  The first two songs sounded rather blah.  Not interested.  Too music good music out there already to waste my time on what sounds like A-Mob plus keys, with a singer who doesn't appeal to me at all.

That's why I keep coming back to this thread as well, to see the newest shoot themselves in the foot comment.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Kwyjibo on October 12, 2017, 09:16:44 AM
I've seen Derek with Billy Idol some years ago and if anyone had rock 'n' roll and swagger, it was Billy and Steve Stevens and not necessarily Derek.

And for something completely different: Maybe Derek still holds a grudge against DT from being fired, but I dare say, if he hadn't been in DT he wouldn't be known as much as he is, and he would still be only the sideman and touring musician for some of the big names. But maybe I'm wrong.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ganpondorodf on October 12, 2017, 10:13:12 AM
Speaking as a keyboard player... You can't play keyboards and be cool. You just can't. Derek is coming across like a guy who wishes his parents had pushed him to be a guitarist
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Evermind on October 12, 2017, 10:17:48 AM
Speaking as a keyboard player... You can't play keyboards and be cool. You just can't. Derek is coming across like a guy who wishes his parents had pushed him to be a guitarist

Speaking not as a keyboard player and, I suppose, as a big fanboy too, I think Jon Lord was fairly cool. Depends on your definition of "cool", of course.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bill1971 on October 12, 2017, 10:34:20 AM
Speaking as a keyboard player... You can't play keyboards and be cool. You just can't. Derek is coming across like a guy who wishes his parents had pushed him to be a guitarist

Speaking not as a keyboard player and, I suppose, as a big fanboy too, I think Jon Lord was fairly cool. Depends on your definition of "cool", of course.

What about Wakeman and his big flowing capes???
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: TAC on October 12, 2017, 10:39:31 AM
Heck, what about Orbert??
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Adami on October 12, 2017, 10:53:03 AM
I just hope they release 10 more albums after this so they can call it “Sons of Apollo 11”
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on October 12, 2017, 10:54:31 AM
Coen Janssen from Epica seems pretty cool especially with his keyboard stand that moves around the stage. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Orbert on October 12, 2017, 10:59:40 AM
Heck, what about Orbert??

Thanks, but let's not get too crazy here.  Nihil-Morari is the epitome of cool keyboard players.  I've seen the pictures.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: RodrigoAltaf on October 12, 2017, 11:15:26 AM
My interview with Derek was published here:

https://whiplash.net/materias/entrevistas/271468-sonsofapollo.html
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bill1971 on October 12, 2017, 11:16:30 AM
I just hope they release 10 more albums after this so they can call it “Sons of Apollo 11”

There is no doubt they will get there, didn't you read they can play technical parts AND have rock n roll swagger???
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: The Walrus on October 12, 2017, 11:21:11 AM
Speaking as a keyboard player... You can't play keyboards and be cool. You just can't. Derek is coming across like a guy who wishes his parents had pushed him to be a guitarist

I think it's definitely possible to be cool (as a keyboardist myself) but it's hard to overcome the stigma of 'cheesy keyboards.' It really is. Especially when, for most keyboardists, those sounds most people call 'cheesy' are actually really fucking cool. Jordan Rudess and Jens Johansson have the two best lead voices on the planet imo. Those are cool leads, and if you got the chops like they do, you can be cool af, as the kids say.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: mikeyd23 on October 12, 2017, 11:28:46 AM
Speaking as a keyboard player... You can't play keyboards and be cool. You just can't. Derek is coming across like a guy who wishes his parents had pushed him to be a guitarist

I think it's definitely possible to be cool (as a keyboardist myself) but it's hard to overcome the stigma of 'cheesy keyboards.' It really is. Especially when, for most keyboardists, those sounds most people call 'cheesy' are actually really fucking cool. Jordan Rudess and Jens Johansson have the two best lead voices on the planet imo. Those are cool leads, and if you got the chops like they do, you can be cool af, as the kids say.

I agree, keyboardists can certainly be cool.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Stadler on October 12, 2017, 11:51:51 AM
Speaking as a keyboard player... You can't play keyboards and be cool. You just can't. Derek is coming across like a guy who wishes his parents had pushed him to be a guitarist

I think it's definitely possible to be cool (as a keyboardist myself) but it's hard to overcome the stigma of 'cheesy keyboards.' It really is. Especially when, for most keyboardists, those sounds most people call 'cheesy' are actually really fucking cool. Jordan Rudess and Jens Johansson have the two best lead voices on the planet imo. Those are cool leads, and if you got the chops like they do, you can be cool af, as the kids say.

It's possible, just not a given. 

Cool:
(https://i.imgur.com/OdhK45X.jpg)

Not cool:
 (https://i.imgur.com/HaiKUMY.jpg)
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Stadler on October 12, 2017, 11:52:48 AM
Still Cool:
(https://i.imgur.com/zBZa9tL.jpg)

As cool as keyboards get:
(https://i.imgur.com/QOrRUVS.jpg)
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bill1971 on October 12, 2017, 11:53:36 AM
Speaking as a keyboard player... You can't play keyboards and be cool. You just can't. Derek is coming across like a guy who wishes his parents had pushed him to be a guitarist

I think it's definitely possible to be cool (as a keyboardist myself) but it's hard to overcome the stigma of 'cheesy keyboards.' It really is. Especially when, for most keyboardists, those sounds most people call 'cheesy' are actually really fucking cool. Jordan Rudess and Jens Johansson have the two best lead voices on the planet imo. Those are cool leads, and if you got the chops like they do, you can be cool af, as the kids say.

I agree, keyboardists can certainly be cool.

I think so too but piano players are definitely cool. Look at Billy Joel
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: The Walrus on October 12, 2017, 11:54:59 AM
Now, see, I don't think James Hetfield is cool, *and* I think that pic of Geoff Downes rocks. So THERE. :)
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: KevShmev on October 12, 2017, 11:59:20 AM
(https://wac.450f.edgecastcdn.net/80450F/ultimateclassicrock.com/files/2013/01/Keith-Emerson.jpg)
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: pcs90 on October 12, 2017, 12:00:47 PM
I think it's definitely possible to be cool (as a keyboardist myself) but it's hard to overcome the stigma of 'cheesy keyboards.' It really is. Especially when, for most keyboardists, those sounds most people call 'cheesy' are actually really fucking cool. Jordan Rudess and Jens Johansson have the two best lead voices on the planet imo. Those are cool leads, and if you got the chops like they do, you can be cool af, as the kids say.
Jordan's lead patches are always really cool and well thought out, and there's a ton of work involved in designing them. That SFAM lead has at least 10 layers in it. There's a clip where he goes through all of them somewhere. To me a lot of his solos lately have been boring (just runs,) but the sounds themselves can be super expressive, like his current Kronos lead with all the different feedback harmonics. Every once in a while I'll hear a slower track with him playing a more melodic solo on that sound and it just rocks.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: The Walrus on October 12, 2017, 12:07:39 PM
I think it's definitely possible to be cool (as a keyboardist myself) but it's hard to overcome the stigma of 'cheesy keyboards.' It really is. Especially when, for most keyboardists, those sounds most people call 'cheesy' are actually really fucking cool. Jordan Rudess and Jens Johansson have the two best lead voices on the planet imo. Those are cool leads, and if you got the chops like they do, you can be cool af, as the kids say.
Jordan's lead patches are always really cool and well thought out, and there's a ton of work involved in designing them. That SFAM lead has at least 10 layers in it. There's a clip where he goes through all of them somewhere. To me a lot of his solos lately have been boring (just runs,) but the sounds themselves can be super expressive, like his current Kronos lead with all the different feedback harmonics. Every once in a while I'll hear a slower track with him playing a more melodic solo on that sound and it just rocks.

Oooh I'd love to see that clip. You hear what he does in Enigma Machine, I think it's around the 2 or 3 minute mark, right after the bass solo? THAT'S the JR soloing I love. And I'd love for Derek to do some absolutely batshit playing like that on SoA too.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: pcs90 on October 12, 2017, 12:19:16 PM
Oooh I'd love to see that clip. You hear what he does in Enigma Machine, I think it's around the 2 or 3 minute mark, right after the bass solo? THAT'S the JR soloing I love. And I'd love for Derek to do some absolutely batshit playing like that on SoA too.
I believe it was from a DVD he made. Search for "Jordan Rudess Performance Programming" and it should come up. There's a 50-minute video showing all sorts of different layers, splits and other tricks he used for live performances, and the last 10-15 mins are focused on leads. I have programmed a similar patch (using only 2 layers!) but the feedback is a lot different as a result and I'd really need to use some pedals to thicken up the sound. Surprisingly close though.

I would have to say my favorite crazy JR solo is the one during Mike Mangini's audition jam, near the end. That one is just nuts! And within all those runs there are still melodies (the simple chord structure probably helps.) If it's just crazy with no melodies or feeling I just get bored.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: faizoff on October 12, 2017, 12:24:05 PM
Speaking as a keyboard player... You can't play keyboards and be cool. You just can't. Derek is coming across like a guy who wishes his parents had pushed him to be a guitarist

Speaking not as a keyboard player and, I suppose, as a big fanboy too, I think Jon Lord was fairly cool. Depends on your definition of "cool", of course.

What about Wakeman and his big flowing capes???

Not only that but girls would ask Wakeman to sign their tits. Actually didn't Kevin Moore do that in the Japan Live DVD as well?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Stadler on October 12, 2017, 12:28:42 PM
Speaking as a keyboard player... You can't play keyboards and be cool. You just can't. Derek is coming across like a guy who wishes his parents had pushed him to be a guitarist

Speaking not as a keyboard player and, I suppose, as a big fanboy too, I think Jon Lord was fairly cool. Depends on your definition of "cool", of course.

What about Wakeman and his big flowing capes???

Not only that but girls would ask Wakeman to sign their tits. Actually didn't Kevin Moore do that in the Japan Live DVD as well?

I watched Tommy Lee do that once before a show (I was a security guard at the Hartford Civic Center for a while).  Later on, between the opening act and Crue, I was walking on the concourse level and she was walking around, with her boob out, showing anyone who would look her autograph. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Anguyen92 on October 12, 2017, 12:34:14 PM
Speaking as a keyboard player... You can't play keyboards and be cool. You just can't. Derek is coming across like a guy who wishes his parents had pushed him to be a guitarist

I think it's definitely possible to be cool (as a keyboardist myself) but it's hard to overcome the stigma of 'cheesy keyboards.' It really is. Especially when, for most keyboardists, those sounds most people call 'cheesy' are actually really fucking cool. Jordan Rudess and Jens Johansson have the two best lead voices on the planet imo. Those are cool leads, and if you got the chops like they do, you can be cool af, as the kids say.

It's possible, just not a given. 

Cool:
(https://i.imgur.com/OdhK45X.jpg)

In all fairness, I think The Table has his moments of being cheesy along with being cool.  Him going all "Metallica Famileh!" sometimes is a good example of that.

I honestly do think Jordan fiddling around with his gadgets and his keytar.  That looks cool to me.  I think typically, it's a good way to get the crowd going when he brings those out.  Tiresome and cheesy at times?  Sure, but still cool nonetheless.  He still can bring some good emotions out with just a piano-like sound (honestly, the intro to Hymn of a Thousand Voices was really compelling and he didn't need anything more fancy to pull that off).
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: The Walrus on October 12, 2017, 12:38:20 PM
Oooh I'd love to see that clip. You hear what he does in Enigma Machine, I think it's around the 2 or 3 minute mark, right after the bass solo? THAT'S the JR soloing I love. And I'd love for Derek to do some absolutely batshit playing like that on SoA too.
I believe it was from a DVD he made. Search for "Jordan Rudess Performance Programming" and it should come up. There's a 50-minute video showing all sorts of different layers, splits and other tricks he used for live performances, and the last 10-15 mins are focused on leads. I have programmed a similar patch (using only 2 layers!) but the feedback is a lot different as a result and I'd really need to use some pedals to thicken up the sound. Surprisingly close though.

I would have to say my favorite crazy JR solo is the one during Mike Mangini's audition jam, near the end. That one is just nuts! And within all those runs there are still melodies (the simple chord structure probably helps.) If it's just crazy with no melodies or feeling I just get bored.

Thanks dude!! On my Krome, I had a (downloaded) group of patches and one of them had JR's lead sound. It was almost spot on, a bit different and more reverb but holy shit it's the most fun synth lead I've ever used in my life. Nothing I've made has come close and I'll never replicate Jens's so yeah. I know which solo you're talking about too re: Mangini's audition - I've always loved that. :)

Okay, that's enough derailing for me...
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: pcs90 on October 12, 2017, 12:43:55 PM
Oooh I'd love to see that clip. You hear what he does in Enigma Machine, I think it's around the 2 or 3 minute mark, right after the bass solo? THAT'S the JR soloing I love. And I'd love for Derek to do some absolutely batshit playing like that on SoA too.
I believe it was from a DVD he made. Search for "Jordan Rudess Performance Programming" and it should come up. There's a 50-minute video showing all sorts of different layers, splits and other tricks he used for live performances, and the last 10-15 mins are focused on leads. I have programmed a similar patch (using only 2 layers!) but the feedback is a lot different as a result and I'd really need to use some pedals to thicken up the sound. Surprisingly close though.

I would have to say my favorite crazy JR solo is the one during Mike Mangini's audition jam, near the end. That one is just nuts! And within all those runs there are still melodies (the simple chord structure probably helps.) If it's just crazy with no melodies or feeling I just get bored.

Thanks dude!! On my Krome, I had a (downloaded) group of patches and one of them had JR's lead sound. It was almost spot on, a bit difference and more reverb but holy shit it's the most fun synth lead I've ever used in my life. Nothing I've made has come close and I'll never replicate Jens's so yeah. I know which solo you're talking about too re: Mangini's audition - I've always loved that. :)

Okay, that's enough derailing for me...

Yeah, I programmed a couple of prog-style leads on the Roland synth I own. Jordan's keytar one, Derek's, the Octavarium continuum, the snarling pig, and a few others. And then the SFAM one on my Moog. When I play with other people I rarely get to use those, I usually stick to jazzier / funkier leads, but they're loads of fun to screw around with at home.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Stadler on October 12, 2017, 12:45:03 PM
How old are you, Anguyen92?  I mean that sincerely.  I'm 50, so to me, the whole notion of a "keytar" is based on the early guitar synths from the mid-80's, not the current wizardry of a Jordan Rudess.   That may have a lot to do with it.

Oh, and Firewings, I mean Kattelox, I mean Firewings (what was I going to call you? It wasn't either of them... I forget now) but "Cool" calls James Hetfield up to ask for hints and tips.   "Cool" says "I want to be James Hetfield when I grow up".   "Cool" has a James Hetfield poster on it's bedroom wall.  :) :) :) :) :)
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Stadler on October 12, 2017, 12:46:20 PM
Oooh I'd love to see that clip. You hear what he does in Enigma Machine, I think it's around the 2 or 3 minute mark, right after the bass solo? THAT'S the JR soloing I love. And I'd love for Derek to do some absolutely batshit playing like that on SoA too.
I believe it was from a DVD he made. Search for "Jordan Rudess Performance Programming" and it should come up. There's a 50-minute video showing all sorts of different layers, splits and other tricks he used for live performances, and the last 10-15 mins are focused on leads. I have programmed a similar patch (using only 2 layers!) but the feedback is a lot different as a result and I'd really need to use some pedals to thicken up the sound. Surprisingly close though.

I would have to say my favorite crazy JR solo is the one during Mike Mangini's audition jam, near the end. That one is just nuts! And within all those runs there are still melodies (the simple chord structure probably helps.) If it's just crazy with no melodies or feeling I just get bored.

Thanks dude!! On my Krome, I had a (downloaded) group of patches and one of them had JR's lead sound. It was almost spot on, a bit difference and more reverb but holy shit it's the most fun synth lead I've ever used in my life. Nothing I've made has come close and I'll never replicate Jens's so yeah. I know which solo you're talking about too re: Mangini's audition - I've always loved that. :)

Okay, that's enough derailing for me...

Yeah, I programmed a couple of prog-style leads on the Roland synth I own. Jordan's keytar one, Derek's, the Octavarium continuum, the snarling pig, and a few others. And then the SFAM one on my Moog. When I play with other people I rarely get to use those, I usually stick to jazzier / funkier leads, but they're loads of fun to screw around with at home.

In simple, layman's terms, how do you do that?  How do you "program a sound"?  Sample it?  Code?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: mikeyd23 on October 12, 2017, 12:52:59 PM
Now, see, I don't think James Hetfield is cool, *and* I think that pic of Geoff Downes rocks. So THERE. :)

What now?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: pcs90 on October 12, 2017, 12:54:12 PM
In simple, layman's terms, how do you do that?  How do you "program a sound"?  Sample it?  Code?

In my case, the simplest answer would be by turning knobs on the synths themselves. If you search for "subtractive synthesis" you'll probably get a much clearer explanation than I could give. No sampling or coding as the devices I own don't even have screens. I like the old school synths with knobs and buttons for everything.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: El Barto on October 12, 2017, 12:55:13 PM
(https://wac.450f.edgecastcdn.net/80450F/ultimateclassicrock.com/files/2013/01/Keith-Emerson.jpg)
Yeah, I think this wins the cool contest.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bill1971 on October 12, 2017, 01:15:38 PM
Speaking as a keyboard player... You can't play keyboards and be cool. You just can't. Derek is coming across like a guy who wishes his parents had pushed him to be a guitarist

Speaking not as a keyboard player and, I suppose, as a big fanboy too, I think Jon Lord was fairly cool. Depends on your definition of "cool", of course.

What about Wakeman and his big flowing capes???

Not only that but girls would ask Wakeman to sign their tits. Actually didn't Kevin Moore do that in the Japan Live DVD as well?

I never understood that. If I went to Heart concert I wouldn't have them sign my ding a ling.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: King Postwhore on October 12, 2017, 01:21:45 PM
So just initials then? :neverusethis:
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bosk1 on October 12, 2017, 01:24:32 PM
:lol
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: nattmorker on October 12, 2017, 01:24:59 PM

Oh, and Firewings, I mean Kattelox, I mean Firewings (what was I going to call you? It wasn't either of them... I forget now) but "Cool" calls James Hetfield up to ask for hints and tips.   "Cool" says "I want to be James Hetfield when I grow up".   "Cool" has a James Hetfield poster on it's bedroom wall. :) :) :) :) :)

Totally agree with that!  :lol :lol :lol James Hetfield is the person I immediately think of when I say "cool" in terms of rock/metal.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Sycsa on October 12, 2017, 02:13:51 PM
Speaking as a keyboard player... You can't play keyboards and be cool. You just can't. Derek is coming across like a guy who wishes his parents had pushed him to be a guitarist
When I was 15 years old, I thought the coolest person ever was Jon Lord. 12 years later, I still think he was mighty cool. Having a big burly Hammond C3 on stage certainly helps. As the man himself put it:
Quote
I can’t play a keyboard that’s no longer than my arm in front of 20,000 people. When we played the California Jam in 1974, there were more than 300,000 people in the audience. I was behind my Hammond, and I was cool.
(https://bobbyowsinskiblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/Jon-Lord.jpg)
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: SwedishGoose on October 12, 2017, 02:40:34 PM
Not just having it on stage... playing with it, tilting it on stage.... yeah he was definitely cool
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Anguyen92 on October 12, 2017, 02:47:21 PM
How old are you, Anguyen92?  I mean that sincerely.  I'm 50, so to me, the whole notion of a "keytar" is based on the early guitar synths from the mid-80's, not the current wizardry of a Jordan Rudess.   That may have a lot to do with it.

I'm only 25.  I'm sure somewhere in the back in my mind when I think keytar, I would think chessy 80s dance music.  That stated, when I watched Jordan with the keytar on the Breaking the Fourth Wall DVD, I marked out for it.  I'm easy to please, honestly, so seeing the wizard with that keytar making some great noises, I thought that was cool.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: rumborak on October 12, 2017, 02:51:31 PM
His recent additions of the two iPads glued to his keytar is maybe a bit much. At the same time, I applaud his "fuck it, I'm doing it" attitude :lol
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: The Walrus on October 12, 2017, 02:54:33 PM
In simple, layman's terms, how do you do that?  How do you "program a sound"?  Sample it?  Code?

In my case, the simplest answer would be by turning knobs on the synths themselves. If you search for "subtractive synthesis" you'll probably get a much clearer explanation than I could give. No sampling or coding as the devices I own don't even have screens. I like the old school synths with knobs and buttons for everything.

I've always wanted old school synths for the knobs and badassery of it all but I just never had the money or space for it all.

In my case, on my Krome, there was an LCD touch screen you could navigate. I used a Nintendo 3DS stylus, actually, because everything was ridiculously cramped. But you could go into a single voice - say a simple Nintendo-style square lead, beep beep doot doot etc. - and edit the parameters. But each parameter of the sound would be available to tweak, and I mean EVERY imaginable parameter. Oscillators. Attack/release. Tuning etc. etc. There would literally be charts showing the shape of the sound, a line that would change as you tweaked the parameters. And then you could combine up to 16 voices into a single sound, and you could tweak every imaginable parameter of each individual sound. The synth takes almost a full minute just to boot up. It's... incredibly complex even as a synth player. But it's incredibly powerful, too.

But I actually sold it and my amps and my other synths about a year ago, partially because I just got sick of dealing with the technology and all the editing. So now all I have is a digital piano. Ideally I'd have a grand piano but there's no space or money for that  :biggrin:
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: The Walrus on October 12, 2017, 02:55:58 PM
Now, see, I don't think James Hetfield is cool, *and* I think that pic of Geoff Downes rocks. So THERE. :)

What now?

I have... controversial opinions on Metallica.  :lol

Oh, and Firewings, I mean Kattelox, I mean Firewings (what was I going to call you? It wasn't either of them... I forget now) but "Cool" calls James Hetfield up to ask for hints and tips.   "Cool" says "I want to be James Hetfield when I grow up".   "Cool" has a James Hetfield poster on it's bedroom wall.  :) :) :) :) :)

Fishwings, for taking the bait that one time? :) "Cool" should find itself a younger role model now  :lol
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: pcs90 on October 12, 2017, 03:30:30 PM
In simple, layman's terms, how do you do that?  How do you "program a sound"?  Sample it?  Code?

In my case, the simplest answer would be by turning knobs on the synths themselves. If you search for "subtractive synthesis" you'll probably get a much clearer explanation than I could give. No sampling or coding as the devices I own don't even have screens. I like the old school synths with knobs and buttons for everything.

I've always wanted old school synths for the knobs and badassery of it all but I just never had the money or space for it all.

In my case, on my Krome, there was an LCD touch screen you could navigate. I used a Nintendo 3DS stylus, actually, because everything was ridiculously cramped. But you could go into a single voice - say a simple Nintendo-style square lead, beep beep doot doot etc. - and edit the parameters. But each parameter of the sound would be available to tweak, and I mean EVERY imaginable parameter. Oscillators. Attack/release. Tuning etc. etc. There would literally be charts showing the shape of the sound, a line that would change as you tweaked the parameters. And then you could combine up to 16 voices into a single sound, and you could tweak every imaginable parameter of each individual sound. The synth takes almost a full minute just to boot up. It's... incredibly complex even as a synth player. But it's incredibly powerful, too.

But I actually sold it and my amps and my other synths about a year ago, partially because I just got sick of dealing with the technology and all the editing. So now all I have is a digital piano. Ideally I'd have a grand piano but there's no space or money for that  :biggrin:

A lot of the knob-per-function synths are smaller! 25, 37 or 49 keys. 25 is really too small for anything IMO  unless you control it from another board, but I'd rather not. There are some nice relatively inexpensive digital synths with knobs everywhere, like the Roland Gaia (sells for $300-425 used all the time.) Most demos of this thing make it sound like crap. But it can do A LOT of things well. No screen, no menus, all hands on and unlike some true analog synths in that price bracket it lets you save presets and it has effects. Lots of JR / DS - style leads in that machine...
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Lowdz on October 12, 2017, 03:32:57 PM
How old are you, Anguyen92?  I mean that sincerely.  I'm 50, so to me, the whole notion of a "keytar" is based on the early guitar synths from the mid-80's, not the current wizardry of a Jordan Rudess.   That may have a lot to do with it.

I'm only 25.  I'm sure somewhere in the back in my mind when I think keytar, I would think chessy 80s dance music.  That stated, when I watched Jordan with the keytar on the Breaking the Fourth Wall DVD, I marked out for it.  I'm easy to please, honestly, so seeing the wizard with that keytar making some great noises, I thought that was cool.

Jordan also layers several sounds on top of each other to get his sounds, including his lead tone.

I don't get the stick JR is getting from Derek for the iPad stuff. They aren't toys, they are working synths with a new interface. What's to be scared of? Just jealousy I'm afraid. He's coming over as such a spoilt brat.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ganpondorodf on October 12, 2017, 03:39:33 PM
Good God keytars need to fucking die.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Lowdz on October 12, 2017, 03:41:46 PM
Good God keytars need to fucking die.

The worst thing is the cheesy shape. But there are some bloody awful looking guitars out there too 😀
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Samsara on October 12, 2017, 03:48:29 PM
Good God keytars need to fucking die.

AMEN.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Orbert on October 12, 2017, 03:52:14 PM
Good God keytars need to fucking die.

I've honestly never understood the hatred.  Keyboard players are essentially nailed to a spot because of their gear, not unlike drummers.  Someone figured out that you could package a keyboard in something portable and allow keyboard players some mobility.  What's the problem?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bosk1 on October 12, 2017, 03:53:05 PM
Good God keytars need to fucking die.

I've honestly never understood the hatred.  Keyboard players are essentially nailed to a spot because of their gear, not unlike drummers.  Someone figured out that you could package a keyboard in something portable and allow keyboard players some mobility.  What's the problem?

I'm with ya', Orbert.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Ben_Jamin on October 12, 2017, 03:54:17 PM
Good God keytars need to fucking die.

I've honestly never understood the hatred.  Keyboard players are essentially nailed to a spot because of their gear, not unlike drummers.  Someone figured out that you could package a keyboard in something portable and allow keyboard players some mobility.  What's the problem?

Edgar Winter...the OG keytarist.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ganpondorodf on October 12, 2017, 03:55:50 PM
If you don't know why, nothing I say will convince you
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: metrojam on October 12, 2017, 04:03:25 PM
Coen Janssen from Epica seems pretty cool especially with his keyboard stand that moves around the stage.

He IS damn cool, especially when he goes crowd surfing in a song and still continues to play the keytar  :)
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: rumborak on October 12, 2017, 04:11:08 PM
Good God keytars need to fucking die.

I've honestly never understood the hatred.  Keyboard players are essentially nailed to a spot because of their gear, not unlike drummers.  Someone figured out that you could package a keyboard in something portable and allow keyboard players some mobility.  What's the problem?

In the end, I think it will always come down to the impression that the keyboard player is trying to look like a guitar player. Even more so, while a guitar, especially with string bending, has some justification for physically getting into the motion, keyboards are just plastic levers that you could push with your nose if you wanted to. So when a keyboard player makes theatrics as if he was wrangling with the instrument to get that bombastic sound, it strikes a lot of people as fake, far more fake than what guitarists do.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on October 12, 2017, 04:37:01 PM
Good God keytars need to fucking die.

I've honestly never understood the hatred.  Keyboard players are essentially nailed to a spot because of their gear, not unlike drummers.  Someone figured out that you could package a keyboard in something portable and allow keyboard players some mobility.  What's the problem?

In the end, I think it will always come down to the impression that the keyboard player is trying to look like a guitar player. Even more so, while a guitar, especially with string bending, has some justification for physically getting into the motion, keyboards are just plastic levers that you could push with your nose if you wanted to. So when a keyboard player makes theatrics as if he was wrangling with the instrument to get that bombastic sound, it strikes a lot of people as fake, far more fake than what guitarists do.

Well you mention theatrics.  I do kind of see how sometimes when playing a keytar, some players do as you say and it does look a bit cheesy.  I don't think the instrument in and of itself is cheesy though personally. 

Coen Janssen from Epica seems pretty cool especially with his keyboard stand that moves around the stage.

He IS damn cool, especially when he goes crowd surfing in a song and still continues to play the keytar  :)

and what about this?  What kind of keyboard is this?  This one is a mobile keyboard but not in the shape of a guitar.  Is that less, more, or equally as cheesy?

(https://scontent-sjc2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/22096180_165996080645653_1528071038093854683_o.jpg?oh=4a0542d6881db24b1cd64cf70f9b59fc&oe=5A6DE309)
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: King Postwhore on October 12, 2017, 06:03:35 PM
Lucky for us the Red Hot Chili Peppers never had a keyboard player.  Imagine playing keyboards in a sock?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: nattmorker on October 12, 2017, 06:17:08 PM
Good God keytars need to fucking die.

I've honestly never understood the hatred.  Keyboard players are essentially nailed to a spot because of their gear, not unlike drummers.  Someone figured out that you could package a keyboard in something portable and allow keyboard players some mobility.  What's the problem?

In the end, I think it will always come down to the impression that the keyboard player is trying to look like a guitar player. Even more so, while a guitar, especially with string bending, has some justification for physically getting into the motion, keyboards are just plastic levers that you could push with your nose if you wanted to. So when a keyboard player makes theatrics as if he was wrangling with the instrument to get that bombastic sound, it strikes a lot of people as fake, far more fake than what guitarists do.

Well you mention theatrics.  I do kind of see how sometimes when playing a keytar, some players do as you say and it does look a bit cheesy.  I don't think the instrument in and of itself is cheesy though personally. 

Coen Janssen from Epica seems pretty cool especially with his keyboard stand that moves around the stage.

He IS damn cool, especially when he goes crowd surfing in a song and still continues to play the keytar  :)

and what about this?  What kind of keyboard is this?  This one is a mobile keyboard but not in the shape of a guitar.  Is that less, more, or equally as cheesy?

(https://scontent-sjc2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/22096180_165996080645653_1528071038093854683_o.jpg?oh=4a0542d6881db24b1cd64cf70f9b59fc&oe=5A6DE309)

I remember JR once uploaded a video of him playing a christmas song on that same keyboard. It looks kind of uncomfortable.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: KevShmev on October 12, 2017, 06:22:15 PM
The funny thing about keytars is that professional music critics have pretty much universally panned that instrument for decades, yet in one of the new Arcade Fire videos, Régine Chassagne is playing a keytar.  I am sure the heads of critics everywhere are still spinning since Arcade Fire is one of their darlings. :lol :lol
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: TAC on October 12, 2017, 06:26:10 PM
Who's Arcade Fire?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Anguyen92 on October 12, 2017, 07:11:23 PM
^^ It's all right, TAC.  You don't need to know who they are.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: King Postwhore on October 12, 2017, 07:24:18 PM
Get him a warm glass of milk and send him to bed.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: SystematicThought on October 12, 2017, 08:37:46 PM
Who's Arcade Fire?
It's an old pinball machine
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Orbert on October 12, 2017, 08:39:09 PM
In the end, I think it will always come down to the impression that the keyboard player is trying to look like a guitar player. Even more so, while a guitar, especially with string bending, has some justification for physically getting into the motion, keyboards are just plastic levers that you could push with your nose if you wanted to. So when a keyboard player makes theatrics as if he was wrangling with the instrument to get that bombastic sound, it strikes a lot of people as fake, far more fake than what guitarists do.

Pitch-bending on a keytar is accomplished via wheel or ribbon controller.  It is a physical action not unlike bending a string.  There's also modulation which can be applied either via touch-sensitivity or the other wheel, both physical actions as well.  The sound being produced is electronic rather than electric, but simply plucking a guitar string didn't produce the screaming feedback and distortion you hear coming from the guitar either.  Ultimately, keyboards and guitars are just different ways of producing pitched sounds.

Keyboardists think of it as enjoying the same degree of mobility as a guitarist, not "trying to look like a guitar player".  That's an association made by the observer.  And because there are few basic layouts which are feasible for a mobile keyboard -- right hand here, left hand here -- they end of looking like guitars.  But again, that's an association made by the observer.  If guitars didn't exist, it would just be the shape of a mobile keyboard.

(https://scontent-sjc2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/22096180_165996080645653_1528071038093854683_o.jpg?oh=4a0542d6881db24b1cd64cf70f9b59fc&oe=5A6DE309)
I remember JR once uploaded a video of him playing a christmas song on that same keyboard. It looks kind of uncomfortable.

That looks horrible to play.  The only possible justification for that design is that it doesn't look like a keytar.

(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/34/7b/9a/347b9a26c62034fb6f71e8e8ef1b76bd.jpg)
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: sfam2112 on October 12, 2017, 10:04:07 PM


(https://scontent-sjc2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/22096180_165996080645653_1528071038093854683_o.jpg?oh=4a0542d6881db24b1cd64cf70f9b59fc&oe=5A6DE309)

I remember JR once uploaded a video of him playing a christmas song on that same keyboard. It looks kind of uncomfortable.

I believe he also used it during the ending of The Mirror early on the Along For The Ride tour.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: DT2003 on October 12, 2017, 10:44:30 PM
Good God keytars need to fucking die.

I've honestly never understood the hatred.  Keyboard players are essentially nailed to a spot because of their gear, not unlike drummers.  Someone figured out that you could package a keyboard in something portable and allow keyboard players some mobility.  What's the problem?

I'm with ya', Orbert.

I agree as well. When Jordan plays his keytar, it definitely seems like one of the high points of DT shows as far as the crowd goes and it gives him a chance to let loose.  I felt the same way about Diego at The Glass Prison show.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bosk1 on October 12, 2017, 11:14:28 PM
That looks horrible to play.  The only possible justification for that design is that it doesn't look like a keytar.

Nah, I think he actually prefers it.  He usually has a big grin while playing it, and he is quite proficient, playing some pretty intricate parts when he has it on.  And he will sometimes have it on for stretches of a few songs at a time, so it probably isn't nearly as uncomfortable and awkward as it looks once you are used to it.  You can't tell from the pic, but it has a padded brace that rests up against your belt buckle area to keep it stabilized and out a few inches from your torso, just like some drum racks for marching drummers.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Fritzinger on October 13, 2017, 03:53:24 AM
I think these two dudes are incredibly kewl:
(https://img.rammsteinworld.com/rammstein/materiel/christian-flake-lorenz/live.jpg)
(https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/images/ic/960x540/p01bqh4p.jpg)
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Kwyjibo on October 13, 2017, 05:04:17 AM
If coolness was a factor, we wouldn't be listening to prog
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: MirrorMask on October 13, 2017, 06:04:55 AM
Without the album out yet, we're still going in tangents and offtopic, but we've moved from the online comments of Derek and Mike to an history of coolness of keyboard players over the years, I'd say it's an improvement.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Nekov on October 13, 2017, 06:47:28 AM
Without the album out yet, we're still going in tangents and offtopic, but we've moved from the online comments of Derek and Mike to an history of coolness of keyboard players over the years, I'd say it's an improvement.

They still have 7 more days to say things they shouldn't on the internet which will put us back on track :P
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: devieira73 on October 13, 2017, 07:09:32 AM
About Opus Maximus (edited :D):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3addS-uEkmo

I thought the origin of the title was kind of a joke with prog rock, but it is much cooler in fact. And, really, Max is really excellent on Phases. Listen to Kek, sincerely it's my favourite prog metal song of the year.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: New World Rushman on October 13, 2017, 07:12:37 AM
Geddy Lee's foot is cooler:

(https://www.cygnus-x1.net/links/rush/images/books/guitar-legends-12.2007/guitar-legends-12.2007-31.jpg)
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Orbert on October 13, 2017, 07:40:02 AM
That looks horrible to play.  The only possible justification for that design is that it doesn't look like a keytar.

Nah, I think he actually prefers it.  He usually has a big grin while playing it, and he is quite proficient, playing some pretty intricate parts when he has it on.  And he will sometimes have it on for stretches of a few songs at a time, so it probably isn't nearly as uncomfortable and awkward as it looks once you are used to it.  You can't tell from the pic, but it has a padded brace that rests up against your belt buckle area to keep it stabilized and out a few inches from your torso, just like some drum racks for marching drummers.

It takes about 1.3 seconds for your fingers to adjust to the smaller keys, but the asymmetrical curve to the keyboard itself looks really weird and seems like it would be horrible to play.  Maybe the adjustment there isn't so bad, either.  Obviously I've never played one, never even seen one before.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Ben_Jamin on October 13, 2017, 07:43:33 AM
Labryinth and Opus Maximus sound pretty good. Thats what I was expecting from this project. Especially Labryinth.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: MirrorMask on October 13, 2017, 07:43:54 AM
That looks horrible to play.  The only possible justification for that design is that it doesn't look like a keytar.

Nah, I think he actually prefers it.  He usually has a big grin while playing it, and he is quite proficient, playing some pretty intricate parts when he has it on.  And he will sometimes have it on for stretches of a few songs at a time, so it probably isn't nearly as uncomfortable and awkward as it looks once you are used to it.  You can't tell from the pic, but it has a padded brace that rests up against your belt buckle area to keep it stabilized and out a few inches from your torso, just like some drum racks for marching drummers.

It takes about 1.3 seconds for your fingers to adjust to the smaller keys, but the asymmetrical curve to the keyboard itself looks really weird and seems like it would be horrible to play.  Maybe the adjustment there isn't so bad, either.  Obviously I've never played one, never even seen one before.

A guy from a local band played the entire 45' minute set of their show with that, when I saw them in summer, he didn't seem really bothered by it.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: The Walrus on October 13, 2017, 07:46:19 AM
I was going to post a picture of Zorak:

(https://cdn.static.ovimg.com/episode/304297.jpg)

But then I found this. Game over, folks:

(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/7LHa-wAZxh8/maxresdefault.jpg)
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: emtee on October 13, 2017, 07:52:12 AM
This has turned into a keyboard thread.

Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: gzarruk on October 13, 2017, 07:55:04 AM
This has turned into a keyboard thread.

We're just waiting for more unnecesary tweets by Derek  :)
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Orbert on October 13, 2017, 08:24:09 AM
That looks horrible to play.  The only possible justification for that design is that it doesn't look like a keytar.

Nah, I think he actually prefers it.  He usually has a big grin while playing it, and he is quite proficient, playing some pretty intricate parts when he has it on.  And he will sometimes have it on for stretches of a few songs at a time, so it probably isn't nearly as uncomfortable and awkward as it looks once you are used to it.  You can't tell from the pic, but it has a padded brace that rests up against your belt buckle area to keep it stabilized and out a few inches from your torso, just like some drum racks for marching drummers.

It takes about 1.3 seconds for your fingers to adjust to the smaller keys, but the asymmetrical curve to the keyboard itself looks really weird and seems like it would be horrible to play.  Maybe the adjustment there isn't so bad, either.  Obviously I've never played one, never even seen one before.

A guy from a local band played the entire 45' minute set of their show with that, when I saw them in summer, he didn't seem really bothered by it.

Okay, now I'm actually curious.  What keyboard is that, and who's the guy in the picture?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bosk1 on October 13, 2017, 08:44:54 AM
Coen Janssen, keyboardist for Epica. 

Check this video:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0u2eePiXahI

Or see 35:51 onward from this video:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SrXRxp-sDVY

Watching those clips, you can see a couple of advantages to that design for a "mobile" keyboard.  A keytar design doesn't easily allow for playing with both hands.  This does.  A flat keyboard mounted the same way could work, but I think for moving around, which is the whole point, it looks like this design provides a better center of gravity. 

EDIT:  Actually, here is the site for it where they discuss it and have some Epica videos that highlight Coen playing it:  https://nu-motion.com/?lang=en
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Ben_Jamin on October 13, 2017, 08:45:30 AM
I liked the Labryinth story of...Mi-No-Taur. Then they decided not to use that word. Haha.

Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Tick on October 13, 2017, 08:46:25 AM
I love MP but the over the top hype for this project is a bit obnoxious. (Just my opinion)
And Derek is coming off as an ass clown, but taking very unnecessary shots at JR.



Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Ben_Jamin on October 13, 2017, 08:49:41 AM
Coen Janssen, keyboardist for Epica. 

Check this video:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0u2eePiXahI

Or see 35:51 onward from this video:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SrXRxp-sDVY

Watching those clips, you can see a couple of advantages to that design for a "mobile" keyboard.  A keytar design doesn't easily allow for playing with both hands.  This does.  A flat keyboard mounted the same way could work, but I think for moving around, which is the whole point, it looks like this design provides a better center of gravity.

Haha the best part is when he plays them on Simones baby bump.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bill1971 on October 13, 2017, 09:02:37 AM
The new video for the making of Opus Maximus is up. Actually no obnoxious comments from either one of them. It was actually pretty nice that they named it after Max Portnoy for his 18th birthday.
I was afraid MP would say it is the MOST complex piece I have ever written on any band or something, but he didn't so shame on me. :)
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: gzarruk on October 13, 2017, 09:07:21 AM
The new video for the making of Opus Maximus is up. Actually no obnoxious comments from either one of them. It was actually pretty nice that they named it after Max Portnoy for his 18th birthday.
I was afraid MP would say it is the MOST complex piece I have ever written on any band or something, but he didn't so shame on me. :)

Well, he DID say something similar for an instrumental track (forgot the name) on TSOAD (he compared it to TDOE), and it ended up being ... meh, imo.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Orbert on October 13, 2017, 10:02:02 AM
Coen Janssen, keyboardist for Epica. 

Check this video:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0u2eePiXahI

Or see 35:51 onward from this video:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SrXRxp-sDVY

Watching those clips, you can see a couple of advantages to that design for a "mobile" keyboard.  A keytar design doesn't easily allow for playing with both hands.  This does.  A flat keyboard mounted the same way could work, but I think for moving around, which is the whole point, it looks like this design provides a better center of gravity. 

EDIT:  Actually, here is the site for it where they discuss it and have some Epica videos that highlight Coen playing it:  https://nu-motion.com/?lang=en

Interesting.  In the picture upthread, it looked like the curve was asymmetrical, but it must've just been the angle, and he's a pretty big guy so I guess that's why the keys didn't look full size.

It still seems to me that one of the main selling points is that it isn't laid out like a keytar.  For people instantly turned off by the keytar design, I suppose that's a plus.  The ability to use both hands is definitely a plus.  The only thing, therefore, distinguishing the Revo-1 from any other controller that you could mount and wear around is the curved shape, because it would otherwise look like someone just mounted a controller on a harness so they could walk around with it (which is basically what it is).  So the curve distracts from that.  A guy walking around with a keyboard attached to his waist would look kinda stupid, but if it's a curved keyboard, then that's obviously much cooler (sarcasm, but of indeterminate degree).

So for keyboardists, the choices would seem to be the keytar design ("you're trying to look like a guitarist!"), this (which kinda screams "gimmick" but at least isn't a keytar) or fixing a regular keyboard with a strap and wearing it in front of you (which I've seen but can't find a picture for).  Or just standing behind your keys.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bosk1 on October 13, 2017, 10:13:06 AM
Well, yeah.  But this one is curved!
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bill1971 on October 13, 2017, 10:55:37 AM
The new video for the making of Opus Maximus is up. Actually no obnoxious comments from either one of them. It was actually pretty nice that they named it after Max Portnoy for his 18th birthday.
I was afraid MP would say it is the MOST complex piece I have ever written on any band or something, but he didn't so shame on me. :)

Well, he DID say something similar for an instrumental track (forgot the name) on TSOAD (he compared it to TDOE), and it ended up being ... meh, imo.

I guess he learned his lesson. That track on TSOAD was good but song writing is Neal Morse's strength and not crazy instrumentals. he mentioned throwing in some parts of unreleased Metropolis Part 2 which Derek played on. I wonder if he would have to give Petrucci a writing credit on that track?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on October 13, 2017, 11:09:43 AM
I think these two dudes are incredibly kewl:
(https://img.rammsteinworld.com/rammstein/materiel/christian-flake-lorenz/live.jpg)

 :lol I love the treadmill, I think it's great

If coolness was a factor, we wouldn't be listening to prog

And yea at the end of the day, this.  :lol
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: RodrigoAltaf on October 13, 2017, 11:19:56 AM
The new video for the making of Opus Maximus is up. Actually no obnoxious comments from either one of them. It was actually pretty nice that they named it after Max Portnoy for his 18th birthday.
I was afraid MP would say it is the MOST complex piece I have ever written on any band or something, but he didn't so shame on me. :)

Billy's solo on Opus Maximus is incredible. Aside from that, he's rather tame in the album, compared to The Winery Dogs and Mr. Big
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: gzarruk on October 13, 2017, 11:45:41 AM
The new video for the making of Opus Maximus is up. Actually no obnoxious comments from either one of them. It was actually pretty nice that they named it after Max Portnoy for his 18th birthday.
I was afraid MP would say it is the MOST complex piece I have ever written on any band or something, but he didn't so shame on me. :)

Billy's solo on Opus Maximus is incredible. Aside from that, he's rather tame in the album, compared to The Winery Dogs and Mr. Big

To me, this is great news  :biggrin:

The new video for the making of Opus Maximus is up. Actually no obnoxious comments from either one of them. It was actually pretty nice that they named it after Max Portnoy for his 18th birthday.
I was afraid MP would say it is the MOST complex piece I have ever written on any band or something, but he didn't so shame on me. :)

Well, he DID say something similar for an instrumental track (forgot the name) on TSOAD (he compared it to TDOE), and it ended up being ... meh, imo.

I guess he learned his lesson. That track on TSOAD was good but song writing is Neal Morse's strength and not crazy instrumentals. he mentioned throwing in some parts of unreleased Metropolis Part 2 which Derek played on. I wonder if he would have to give Petrucci a writing credit on that track?

I don't think they'll give any writing credit to JP at all. Same with DT not giving Derek any writing credits on SFAM (because they took out all Derekisms anyway).
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: MirrorMask on October 13, 2017, 11:49:29 AM
That was a joke, just an idea they had just to see if people would have noticed it. They did not actually used riffs from the Metropolis pt 2 demo on the album.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Stadler on October 13, 2017, 12:29:41 PM

(https://scontent-sjc2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/22096180_165996080645653_1528071038093854683_o.jpg?oh=4a0542d6881db24b1cd64cf70f9b59fc&oe=5A6DE309)

Who is that (both of them)?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Podaar on October 13, 2017, 12:38:02 PM
It looks like Simone and Coen of Epica, right?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: JayOctavarium on October 13, 2017, 12:40:32 PM
It looks like Simone and Coen of Epica, right?

It is.


Source: I looked it up when bosk  posted the video links
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Shadow Ninja 2.0 on October 13, 2017, 12:44:41 PM
Plus bosk said so in this post. :P

Coen Janssen, keyboardist for Epica. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bosk1 on October 13, 2017, 01:10:10 PM
:lol  Been listening to them all morning after posting that.  They've become on of my most-listened-to bands over the past year or two.  Can't get enough of their sound.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: The Walrus on October 13, 2017, 01:19:13 PM
*tolls the bell for Stadler*

Shame. Shame.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bosk1 on October 13, 2017, 01:37:28 PM
:rollin :metal  Orbert, did you watch the entire song from the Graspop video I linked to?

Or see 35:51 onward from this video:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SrXRxp-sDVY

I have never just watched that one before.  About halfway through the song, he jumps off the stage and is walking back and forth between the barricade and stage while playing, hi-fiving fans, and taking selfies.  :lol  Then he crowd surfs with it on at the end of the song.  Yeah, you can't really do that with a standard keyboard rig.

Man, I REALLY wish this show had an official BluRay release.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: nattmorker on October 13, 2017, 01:51:51 PM
:rollin :metal  Orbert, did you watch the entire song from the Graspop video I linked to?

Or see 35:51 onward from this video:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SrXRxp-sDVY

I have never just watched that one before.  About halfway through the song, he jumps off the stage and is walking back and forth between the barricade and stage while playing, hi-fiving fans, and taking selfies.  :lol  Then he crowd surfs with it on at the end of the song.  Yeah, you can't really do that with a standard keyboard rig.

Man, I REALLY wish this show had an official BluRay release.

Thanks for posting that, I already liked Epica and these days I was listening more of them, now with these posts I'm wishing I would have seen them lilve when they were in Mexico a few weeks ago.

Well, I think we were from talking about DS tweets to wether or not Keytars are cheesy to Epica's keyboard player (and curved keyboard).
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Orbert on October 13, 2017, 02:16:14 PM
I watched the first link, but "35:51 onward" in the second link is like half an hour, and ain't nobody got time for that.  Also, by then I kinda felt like I'd seen enough, though I must admit that I've never seen a keyboard player crowd surfing while playing (and I still haven't).
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bosk1 on October 13, 2017, 02:28:06 PM
I watched the first link, but "35:51 onward" in the second link is like half an hour, and ain't nobody got time for that.  Also, by then I kinda felt like I'd seen enough, though I must admit that I've never seen a keyboard player crowd surfing while playing (and I still haven't).

Well, no, I just meant that one song that starts at 35:51--not the entire rest of the show (unless you so choose).  Do yourself a favor and watch it.  It's just a lot of fun seeing him (and the rest of the band) have so much fun.

Well, I think we were from talking about DS tweets to wether or not Keytars are cheesy to Epica's keyboard player (and curved keyboard).

Wait, why are we talking about DS tweets in the Epica thread?  ???
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Schurftkut on October 13, 2017, 02:30:26 PM
Bosk I warn you, do not further derail this thread any more!!

Also, if they'd release Labyrinth as the first single, all those in need of a good progmetal song would've been satified.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bosk1 on October 13, 2017, 02:35:22 PM
Bosk I warn you, do not further derail this thread any more!!

:ontome:
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bill1971 on October 13, 2017, 02:37:30 PM
I watched the first link, but "35:51 onward" in the second link is like half an hour, and ain't nobody got time for that.  Also, by then I kinda felt like I'd seen enough, though I must admit that I've never seen a keyboard player crowd surfing while playing (and I still haven't).

Well, no, I just meant that one song that starts at 35:51--not the entire rest of the show (unless you so choose).  Do yourself a favor and watch it.  It's just a lot of fun seeing him (and the rest of the band) have so much fun.

Well, I think we were from talking about DS tweets to wether or not Keytars are cheesy to Epica's keyboard player (and curved keyboard).

Wait, why are we talking about DS tweets in the Epica thread?  ???

because Derek tweeted

"And no girly bent keyboards, we swear!"
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Ben_Jamin on October 13, 2017, 02:37:48 PM
Bosk I warn you, do not further derail this thread any more!!

Also, if they'd release Labyrinth as the first single, all those in need of a good progmetal song would've been satified.

I'll say thats true. JSS vocals sound great so does that awesome string intro.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Dave_Manchester on October 13, 2017, 02:37:58 PM
I'm late to the discussion, but a shirtless Richard Wright playing the keyboard sections of Echoes in the Pompeiian ruins is possibly the coolest thing I've ever seen. And him bashing the hell out of the piano on A Saucerful of Secrets on the same video would be a close 2nd.

Keyboardists can be cool. The very sharply dressed Tony Banks (Genesis) on The Way We Walk DVD is a case in point, or Tuomas Holopainen (Nightwish) on End of an Era.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: JayOctavarium on October 13, 2017, 02:49:11 PM
I'm late to the discussion, but a shirtless Richard Wright playing the keyboard sections of Echoes in the Pompeiian ruins is possibly the coolest thing I've ever seen. And him bashing the hell out of the piano on A Saucerful of Secrets on the same video would be a close 2nd.



YES
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Orbert on October 13, 2017, 02:49:51 PM
I watched the first link, but "35:51 onward" in the second link is like half an hour, and ain't nobody got time for that.  Also, by then I kinda felt like I'd seen enough, though I must admit that I've never seen a keyboard player crowd surfing while playing (and I still haven't).

Well, no, I just meant that one song that starts at 35:51--not the entire rest of the show (unless you so choose).  Do yourself a favor and watch it.  It's just a lot of fun seeing him (and the rest of the band) have so much fun.

Oh, I did watch it for a while, several minutes at least.  Just not the whole thing from that point on.

I'm completely torn on this.  As a keyboard player who's often wondered what it would like to front a band, or even just be able to move around while playing, I think any device which facilitates this is good.  But as a lover of watching live performances, part of me will always see it as a gimmick.  Coen strolls back and forth across the stage, seemingly just because he can.  To me, that's not just enjoying the mobility, but showing off.  Hey, it's Rock and Roll, and showcasing is a big part of that, so for many that's not a major crime.  But most guitarists don't do that.  They'll move around because it's boring standing in one place all the time, and because they can.  But it tends to look more natural to me.  During a jam, walk over here, make eye contact with the bassist and smile, make a face at the drummer, strike some Awesome Rock Poses, that kind of thing.  Coen seems like "Hey check me out!  I'm walking around, back and forth, while playing a keyboard!"

Double standard?  Absolutely.  Coen is moving around because it's boring standing in one place all the time, and because he can.  Exactly the same thing I said about guitarists.  But at some point it becomes distracting.  Most of the time, your attention is still supposed to be on the singer.  A bunch of guys walking around behind her/him doesn't add to the stage show; it confuses it.  During instrumentals, the rules are different, but it should still look natural.  Maybe that's my problem.  After all these years, it just doesn't look natural for a keyboard player to be moving around like that.  Get the fuck back to your corner and stay there!  Leave being cool to the guitarists.

Also:

If coolness was a factor, we wouldn't be listening to prog

I know, it's green.  But it's also true.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: XeRocks81 on October 13, 2017, 03:12:56 PM
I'm late to the discussion, but a shirtless Richard Wright playing the keyboard sections of Echoes in the Pompeiian ruins is possibly the coolest thing I've ever seen. And him bashing the hell out of the piano on A Saucerful of Secrets on the same video would be a close 2nd.

Keyboardists can be cool. The very sharply dressed Tony Banks (Genesis) on The Way We Walk DVD is a case in point, or Tuomas Holopainen (Nightwish) on End of an Era.

I don' t know that anyone's ever referred to Tony Banks as "cool"  :lol
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ganpondorodf on October 13, 2017, 04:40:30 PM
Keyboard is important to a lot of music, and often sounds cool. But the visual aspect of playing keyboards just never looks anything other than a bit dorky at best and downright embarrassing (See: keytars) at worst.

Fight me.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: RodrigoAltaf on October 13, 2017, 04:57:38 PM
My interview with Derek in English: https://lotsofmuzic.weebly.com/home/derek-sherinian-keyboadist-of-sons-of-apollo-interview
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: rumborak on October 13, 2017, 05:18:38 PM
Quote
For the first time we´ll really get to see Jeff Scott Soto shine with a great band behind him.

lol
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: King Postwhore on October 13, 2017, 05:47:10 PM
Quote
For the first time we´ll really get to see Jeff Scott Soto shine with a great band behind him.

lol

Off of my aura. :lol :lol :lol
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Shredzorz on October 13, 2017, 06:05:08 PM
Keyboard is important to a lot of music, and often sounds cool. But the visual aspect of playing keyboards just never looks anything other than a bit dorky at best and downright embarrassing (See: keytars) at worst.

Fight me.
All rock/metal/prog is dorky and embarrassing, that's what makes it entertaining.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Lethean on October 13, 2017, 06:14:28 PM
My interview with Derek in English: https://lotsofmuzic.weebly.com/home/derek-sherinian-keyboadist-of-sons-of-apollo-interview

I read the first one, but my Portuguese is pretty limited. However, glancing over this, I think I got most of it. :)  I figured out the "strategic wankery" line from context and having heard them say it before.  Which is good, because what it looks like in the Portuguese translation is a bit more, um, direct...


Edit: but did he really say they have octopus pedigree?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: The Walrus on October 13, 2017, 06:15:31 PM
Keyboard is important to a lot of music, and often sounds cool. But the visual aspect of playing keyboards just never looks anything other than a bit dorky at best and downright embarrassing (See: keytars) at worst.

Fight me.

Fisticuffs at dawn, sir. *leaves the bar in a huff*
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Lethean on October 13, 2017, 06:29:17 PM
Keyboard is important to a lot of music, and often sounds cool. But the visual aspect of playing keyboards just never looks anything other than a bit dorky at best and downright embarrassing (See: keytars) at worst.

Fight me.

Fisticuffs at dawn, sir. *leaves the bar in a huff*

I'm down the middle, I suppose.  Most of the time, I don't really think of anything as cool or not cool; if I really like the music, that's enough, and it probably makes me think more favorably of the band visually as a result.  I don't believe I've ever actively thought that Jordan looks either cool or embarrassing with his keytar - but, I like to watch him when he brings it out, so I suppose that means I think it's cool.  I have no problem with keytars and if there's a moment in a show where it really makes sense for all of the focus to be on the keyboard player, then by all means, let's see it.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: RodrigoAltaf on October 13, 2017, 06:32:06 PM
My interview with Derek in English: https://lotsofmuzic.weebly.com/home/derek-sherinian-keyboadist-of-sons-of-apollo-interview

I read the first one, but my Portuguese is pretty limited. However, glancing over this, I think I got most of it. :)  I figured out the "strategic wankery" line from context and having heard them say it before.  Which is good, because what it looks like in the Portuguese translation is a bit more, um, direct...


Edit: but did he really say they have octopus pedigree?

Yes he did.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Herrick on October 13, 2017, 07:33:41 PM
My interview with Derek in English: https://lotsofmuzic.weebly.com/home/derek-sherinian-keyboadist-of-sons-of-apollo-interview

Thanks Rodrigo.

 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: RodrigoAltaf on October 13, 2017, 07:40:41 PM
No problem, let me know what you think of the interview - should I have asked anything else?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: The Walrus on October 13, 2017, 07:44:39 PM
I think 'Octopus Maximus' would have been an even cooler song title, personally
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: gzarruk on October 13, 2017, 09:48:28 PM
I think 'Octopus Maximus' would have been an even cooler song title, personally

Did Mike put Octavarium nuggetz here too?  :rollin
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ytserush on October 13, 2017, 10:17:36 PM
The only reason I am still paying attention to this thread is for the silliness of their comments and the entertainment that results in this thread as a result. :lol :lol
Same here!

I'll admit that's why I'm still here.

I may eventually get this (with the instrumental version) but I don't really have to decide until I find out about tour dates and even then I might just grab a ticket on the day of the show. Or I might not.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ytserush on October 13, 2017, 10:22:18 PM
That... would... actually be kind of a cool tour. Billy's last album was actually quite good.

When I saw Cheap Trick and Peter Frampton out at a casino conference room ballroom in the middle of Nowhere, Minnesota, it was actually a really cool and intimate show.

I saw Asia - all original members - for free at Mohegan Sun, in what equates to a small(er) club setting.  Can't beat that.

Saw Rush in a casino once. (Poster is hanging on the wall actually.)

Strange experience that was. Great seats, small venue, but the crowd was pretty indifferent because I'm convinced most of the tickets were comps.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ytserush on October 13, 2017, 10:25:22 PM
Speaking as a keyboard player... You can't play keyboards and be cool. You just can't. Derek is coming across like a guy who wishes his parents had pushed him to be a guitarist

He was trying to be Eddie Van Halen when he was in Dream Theater.(Another reason Why I never thought it was a good fit.)
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ? on October 14, 2017, 12:12:29 AM
My review is online! (https://www.musicalypse.net/2017-sons-of-apollo-psychotic-symphony-english/)

Waiting for Mike and Derek to start dissing me in 3, 2, 1... :lol
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: RodrigoAltaf on October 14, 2017, 01:16:11 AM
My review is online! (https://www.musicalypse.net/2017-sons-of-apollo-psychotic-symphony-english/)

Waiting for Mike and Derek to start dissing me in 3, 2, 1... :lol

Hey, good call on the Haken influence on Labyrinth! That but does remind me of 1985 as well!
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: noxon on October 14, 2017, 04:39:28 AM
Pretty sure I called out Labyrinth for the 1985 ripoff in my review as well ;)
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: MirrorMask on October 14, 2017, 05:29:44 AM
Quote
Derek: Jeff Scott Soto wrote the majority of the lyrics, and I came up with a couple of the titles of the songs. Jeff did all the heavy lifting of the lyrics. I did a lot of the vocal melodies, and Mike also did both. Between the three of us, we really wanted to make sure that the vocals and the melody lines were as strong as the music tracks that we had recorded earlier

If that will be true, I'll be very happy! prog music caters obviously to a lot of people interested in instruments, but there are also many people for whose the vocals are still the primary point of interest in a song!
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Madman Shepherd on October 14, 2017, 07:15:49 AM
Pretty sure I called out Labyrinth for the 1985 ripoff in my review as well ;)

If they are indeed intentional ‘nuggets’, then I guess that’s a pretty cool idea… However, if they were desperate attempts of secretly re-writing the past…hmm, maybe not so much… I guess only they will know the real reason for it….
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Elite on October 14, 2017, 07:32:57 AM
My review is online! (https://www.musicalypse.net/2017-sons-of-apollo-psychotic-symphony-english/)

Waiting for Mike and Derek to start dissing me in 3, 2, 1... :lol

Wow, that was a very good review, very well written :)

I'll reserve my own thoughts until I hear the full album!
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Hourglass Prison on October 14, 2017, 09:03:59 AM
Pretty sure I called out Labyrinth for the 1985 ripoff in my review as well ;)

If they are indeed intentional ‘nuggets’, then I guess that’s a pretty cool idea… However, if they were desperate attempts of secretly re-writing the past…hmm, maybe not so much… I guess only they will know the real reason for it….

 :rollin
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: devieira73 on October 14, 2017, 09:11:07 AM
Pretty sure I called out Labyrinth for the 1985 ripoff in my review as well ;)
Well, I guess it's only the tone and ELP used it before those bands...
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Lowdz on October 14, 2017, 09:33:21 AM
My review is online! (https://www.musicalypse.net/2017-sons-of-apollo-psychotic-symphony-english/)

Waiting for Mike and Derek to start dissing me in 3, 2, 1... :lol

Wow, that was a very good review, very well written :)

I'll reserve my own thoughts until I hear the full album!

Hmm, not sure I can agree that JSS is just a competent hard rock AOR singer. He’s a damn sight better than that.

And although it’s a well written review I don’t imagine it’s going to get shared on the SoA social media 😀
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ChuckSteak on October 14, 2017, 10:31:55 AM
So many interviews, videos, reviews, posts and masturbation about the band and the upcoming album. I've never seen a band who's about to release its first album receive so much attention.

I just wish they would record and stop all this DAILY update.

I won't be surprised if Portnoy or Sherinian post some update about what color underwear they are wearing.

OMG OMG SONS OF APOLLO

It seems like they have been around for 50 years and the new album is eagerly awaited.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: KevShmev on October 14, 2017, 10:40:19 AM
Even funnier is that if you look at the Cruise to the Edge 2018 banner, they are listed as one of the top acts alongside Steve Hackett and Marillion (just below Yes). How does a band with ZERO PEDIGREE get equal billing as those proven (over numerous DECADES) acts? 

Many would argue that Haken has been the top prog act of the 10s, yet they are billed underneath a band that has no proven track record, never done a full length show, etc. 

It's almost comical.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: MirrorMask on October 14, 2017, 11:44:07 AM
Even funnier is that if you look at the Cruise to the Edge 2018 banner, they are listed as one of the top acts alongside Steve Hackett and Marillion (just below Yes). How does a band with ZERO PEDIGREE get equal billing as those proven (over numerous DECADES) acts? 

Back in 2000 Demons & Wizards, a side project by Iced Earth guitarist Jon Schaffer and Blind Guardian singer Hansi Kurch, got second bill at a local festival only behind the mighty Iron Maiden. The sum of the famous components of the band guarantee a big spot, even if the band itself is technically a newcomer.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Elite on October 14, 2017, 12:54:46 PM
Even funnier is that if you look at the Cruise to the Edge 2018 banner, they are listed as one of the top acts alongside Steve Hackett and Marillion (just below Yes). How does a band with ZERO PEDIGREE get equal billing as those proven (over numerous DECADES) acts? 

Many would argue that Haken has been the top prog act of the 10s, yet they are billed underneath a band that has no proven track record, never done a full length show, etc. 

It's almost comical.

I've made this point before, but then it was about MP's Shattered Fortress, this time it's even more ridiculous indeed.

Be Prog, My Friend! (annual prog festival in Barcelona with very good line-ups every year so far) announced SoA together with Pain of Salvation as their first two acts. SoA currently occupies the largest spot (by far) in their Facebook banner.

It boils down to the indiviual band members being well known enough to warrant such publicity. What I think sucks is that this band doesn't even need to prove itself (same thing went for Shattered Fortress, or even his son's band Next to None, who just 'happened' to join Haken on their NA and Europe tours), while all bands started out anew take years or even decades to get to that spot. That said, obviously all the guys in the band have paid their dues. They all started out as smaller artists as well. Having Portnoy/Sherinian be an opening act on a prog festival would be equally flawed. It's a tough tightrope.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: The Walrus on October 14, 2017, 01:13:19 PM
But then you'd have prog acts playing mighty prog early in the billing and then SoA with Coming Home during the peak  :lol :lol
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Skeever on October 14, 2017, 01:17:58 PM
Even funnier is that if you look at the Cruise to the Edge 2018 banner, they are listed as one of the top acts alongside Steve Hackett and Marillion (just below Yes). How does a band with ZERO PEDIGREE get equal billing as those proven (over numerous DECADES) acts? 

Many would argue that Haken has been the top prog act of the 10s, yet they are billed underneath a band that has no proven track record, never done a full length show, etc. 

It's almost comical.

To be quite honest, even if the whole is not good, the individual members of SoA amount to far more notoriety than a band like Haken ever will. I really don't think Haken will ever achieve great success than they have right now, because they are simply not that good.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Anguyen92 on October 14, 2017, 01:23:30 PM
Even funnier is that if you look at the Cruise to the Edge 2018 banner, they are listed as one of the top acts alongside Steve Hackett and Marillion (just below Yes). How does a band with ZERO PEDIGREE get equal billing as those proven (over numerous DECADES) acts? 

Many would argue that Haken has been the top prog act of the 10s, yet they are billed underneath a band that has no proven track record, never done a full length show, etc. 

It's almost comical.

Funny that you should state that they have Zero Pedigree when Derek claims that they have in fact Octopus Pedigree.  Whatever that means.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Architeuthis on October 14, 2017, 01:32:25 PM
I just ordered the cd for release day.  I think the biggest thing they will have working against them is the band name. They have all those high caliber musicians and all they could come up with is Sons of Apollo??  :facepalm:
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: nattmorker on October 14, 2017, 01:32:42 PM
Even funnier is that if you look at the Cruise to the Edge 2018 banner, they are listed as one of the top acts alongside Steve Hackett and Marillion (just below Yes). How does a band with ZERO PEDIGREE get equal billing as those proven (over numerous DECADES) acts? 

Many would argue that Haken has been the top prog act of the 10s, yet they are billed underneath a band that has no proven track record, never done a full length show, etc. 

It's almost comical.

I've made this point before, but then it was about MP's Shattered Fortress, this time it's even more ridiculous indeed.

Be Prog, My Friend! (annual prog festival in Barcelona with very good line-ups every year so far) announced SoA together with Pain of Salvation as their first two acts. SoA currently occupies the largest spot (by far) in their Facebook banner.

It boils down to the indiviual band members being well known enough to warrant such publicity. What I think sucks is that this band doesn't even need to prove itself (same thing went for Shattered Fortress, or even his son's band Next to None, who just 'happened' to join Haken on their NA and Europe tours), while all bands started out anew take years or even decades to get to that spot. That said, obviously all the guys in the band have paid their dues. They all started out as smaller artists as well. Having Portnoy/Sherinian be an opening act on a prog festival would be equally flawed. It's a tough tightrope.

I've always thought the same about Next to None, they played in Mexico a month ago with TSF and Haken. There are many excellent bands that have never been able to come to Mexico. I know that in the "real world" it's not just about the music but it's also about who do you know (and not just talking about the music business), but it still sucks for new/not-so-known bands that this happens. Not everybody has the same chance.

Sorry if I'm derailing the thread even more.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ErHaO on October 14, 2017, 01:48:16 PM
Even funnier is that if you look at the Cruise to the Edge 2018 banner, they are listed as one of the top acts alongside Steve Hackett and Marillion (just below Yes). How does a band with ZERO PEDIGREE get equal billing as those proven (over numerous DECADES) acts? 

Many would argue that Haken has been the top prog act of the 10s, yet they are billed underneath a band that has no proven track record, never done a full length show, etc. 

It's almost comical.

To be quite honest, even if the whole is not good, the individual members of SoA amount to far more notoriety than a band like Haken ever will. I really don't think Haken will ever achieve great success than they have right now, because they are simply not that good.

While I do think Haken is a great band (while personally not enjoying them due to the vocals), I think their appeal is limited, even amongst prog metal fans. I honestly don't think they will ever come close to Opeth, let alone Steven Wilson in terms of prog crowd sizes or record sales in European countries.

Sons of Apollo is listed higher because of the reputation of it's individual members, and in my opinion rightfully so. Each of these guys has delivered fantastic performances over the decades for many different types of crowds (spanning many different artists). I don't think it is baffling SoA is listed high to be honest. It is because of the artists and each has gained a (loyal) fanbase over the many years.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Elite on October 14, 2017, 01:56:25 PM
Yes, BUT

While I get that the individual member have earned a reputation of creating music (I'm leaving subjective opinions on quality aside), we're dealing with a band that has no music (apart from the two singles they released) out yet. These festivals are booking them merely on the merit of their previous reputation and not on the quality of their new music and that's what's bothering me.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ErHaO on October 14, 2017, 02:07:38 PM
Yes, BUT

While I get that the individual member have earned a reputation of creating music (I'm leaving subjective opinions on quality aside), we're dealing with a band that has no music (apart from the two singles they released) out yet. These festivals are booking them merely on the merit of their previous reputation and not on the quality of their new music and that's what's bothering me.

I have seen plenty of bands that played setlists consisting almost of entirely new music from their latest album that were booked way in advance (also on festivals, though that happens less). And then some well known songs here and there in the setlist. Assuming Sons of Apollo plays some material of DT and of the other solo artists, there could be enough "proven" songs. And who knows what the band communicated when they were booked.

Furthermore, Coming Home has about as much youtube views as any official Haken clip I can find, in like one month. Take that as you will, but festivals are business and I think Sons of Apollo is a band that will get enough interest from the types of crowds attracted to these festivals. As do the organizers, otherwise they wouldn't book them and bill them as high as they did.

I am not talking about quality either. Some of my favorite artists ever hardly get any recognition, as bothering as that may be.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Madman Shepherd on October 14, 2017, 02:23:11 PM
I just ordered the cd for release day.  I think the biggest thing they will have working against them is the band name. They have all those high caliber musicians and all they could come up with is Sons of Apollo??  :facepalm:

As someone that has no remaining interest in the band, I can say that I personally find nothing wrong with the name.  It's not great but it's not terrible.  I mean, I never thought Dream Theater was a great name either.

Even funnier is that if you look at the Cruise to the Edge 2018 banner, they are listed as one of the top acts alongside Steve Hackett and Marillion (just below Yes). How does a band with ZERO PEDIGREE get equal billing as those proven (over numerous DECADES) acts? 

Many would argue that Haken has been the top prog act of the 10s, yet they are billed underneath a band that has no proven track record, never done a full length show, etc. 

It's almost comical.

I've made this point before, but then it was about MP's Shattered Fortress, this time it's even more ridiculous indeed.

Be Prog, My Friend! (annual prog festival in Barcelona with very good line-ups every year so far) announced SoA together with Pain of Salvation as their first two acts. SoA currently occupies the largest spot (by far) in their Facebook banner.

It boils down to the indiviual band members being well known enough to warrant such publicity. What I think sucks is that this band doesn't even need to prove itself (same thing went for Shattered Fortress, or even his son's band Next to None, who just 'happened' to join Haken on their NA and Europe tours), while all bands started out anew take years or even decades to get to that spot. That said, obviously all the guys in the band have paid their dues. They all started out as smaller artists as well. Having Portnoy/Sherinian be an opening act on a prog festival would be equally flawed. It's a tough tightrope.

I've always thought the same about Next to None, they played in Mexico a month ago with TSF and Haken. There are many excellent bands that have never been able to come to Mexico. I know that in the "real world" it's not just about the music but it's also about who do you know (and not just talking about the music business), but it still sucks for new/not-so-known bands that this happens. Not everybody has the same chance.

Sorry if I'm derailing the thread even more.

I hate to say it but almost all tours have an opening act that has more to do with what the label wants or whether the label has someone whose cousin is in the band or whatever.  It's like that in every facet of life including jobs, contracts, etc.  Cronyism, nepotism...it rarely has anything to do with who is best for the job.  So this is nothing new and in no way unique to Mike Portnoy. 

On that same token, he always bragged about handpicking the opening bands and giving up and comers an opportunity so one would think he would chill out with Next to None.  I mean, I fault him in no way at all for having his son open for one or maybe two or three tours.  Probably time to give someone else a shot now. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ReaperKK on October 14, 2017, 03:04:56 PM
I just ordered the cd for release day.  I think the biggest thing they will have working against them is the band name. They have all those high caliber musicians and all they could come up with is Sons of Apollo??  :facepalm:

I have to agree with you. I think I dislike the album name more than the band name. It seems like the laziest, put together title out there. I know they say it's from a lyric in one of the songs but surely there are better lines to take from.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ariich on October 14, 2017, 03:05:42 PM
Yes, BUT

While I get that the individual member have earned a reputation of creating music (I'm leaving subjective opinions on quality aside), we're dealing with a band that has no music (apart from the two singles they released) out yet. These festivals are booking them merely on the merit of their previous reputation and not on the quality of their new music and that's what's bothering me.
Festival billing is based on who will draw a crowd, rather than quality of music.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ? on October 15, 2017, 03:14:37 AM
Pretty sure I called out Labyrinth for the 1985 ripoff in my review as well ;)
Oh yeah, looks like you did indeed! I like your review btw, it's closest to my thoughts out of the ones I've read.
My review is online! (https://www.musicalypse.net/2017-sons-of-apollo-psychotic-symphony-english/)

Waiting for Mike and Derek to start dissing me in 3, 2, 1... :lol

Wow, that was a very good review, very well written :)

I'll reserve my own thoughts until I hear the full album!
My review is online! (https://www.musicalypse.net/2017-sons-of-apollo-psychotic-symphony-english/)

Waiting for Mike and Derek to start dissing me in 3, 2, 1... :lol

Wow, that was a very good review, very well written :)

I'll reserve my own thoughts until I hear the full album!

Hmm, not sure I can agree that JSS is just a competent hard rock AOR singer. He’s a damn sight better than that.

And although it’s a well written review I don’t imagine it’s going to get shared on the SoA social media
Thanks guys! I tried to be fair and judge the album purely on its own merits despite the childish social media antics. I doubt they'll share it, but after reading Rodrigo's interview with Derek I got the impression that at least he reads every review he can find. And yeah, I'm sure Soto is a great singer in his own right, but I don't think he's totally at home in the prog metal genre.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Enigmachine on October 15, 2017, 03:37:48 AM
Assuming Sons of Apollo plays some material of DT

I don't think that would be a very good move. At this point, Mike needs to show that he's over the band. I get the Mike Portnoy's Shattered Fortress thing, as that was a one-off act that he had to get out of his system, but Sons of Apollo should be Sons of Apollo, not 'Mike Portnoy's Dream Theater' like some sort of Rhapsody thing. I think they'd just play the whole album plus a few covers to close the set (like this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j8JprfyQ_XM). Add in some improvisation and you've easily got a 90 min set.

Also, is it just me or does the name of the band sound like something that a country rock band would have?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: MirrorMask on October 15, 2017, 04:09:34 AM
They basically confirmed that they were gonna play Lines in the Sand, probably that's gonna be the only DT song in the set, if not, there will be another one maxium I guess. It's not gonna be 1/3 of DT covers for sure.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: RodrigoAltaf on October 15, 2017, 06:05:40 AM
Pretty sure I called out Labyrinth for the 1985 ripoff in my review as well ;)
Oh yeah, looks like you did indeed! I like your review btw, it's closest to my thoughts out of the ones I've read.
My review is online! (https://www.musicalypse.net/2017-sons-of-apollo-psychotic-symphony-english/)

Waiting for Mike and Derek to start dissing me in 3, 2, 1... :lol

Wow, that was a very good review, very well written :)

I'll reserve my own thoughts until I hear the full album!
My review is online! (https://www.musicalypse.net/2017-sons-of-apollo-psychotic-symphony-english/)

Waiting for Mike and Derek to start dissing me in 3, 2, 1... :lol

Wow, that was a very good review, very well written :)

I'll reserve my own thoughts until I hear the full album!

Hmm, not sure I can agree that JSS is just a competent hard rock AOR singer. He’s a damn sight better than that.

And although it’s a well written review I don’t imagine it’s going to get shared on the SoA social media
Thanks guys! I tried to be fair and judge the album purely on its own merits despite the childish social media antics. I doubt they'll share it, but after reading Rodrigo's interview with Derek I got the impression that at least he reads every review he can find. And yeah, I'm sure Soto is a great singer in his own right, but I don't think he's totally at home in the prog metal genre.

I really liked the album, but it would be silly of me to ignore the reasons why other reviewers graded it 7/10. I totally see the points you guys made, and although personally they didn't prevent me from enjoying (and grading) the album as much as I did, I understand why you didn't like it as much as I did. But yeah, the band clearly cares about the not-so-flattering reviews. Honestly I was not expecting that answer from Derek, I was quite surprised when he singled out that 7/10.

Hey, both Derek and MP posted links to my interview... major fanboy moment for me!!!!
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Enigmachine on October 15, 2017, 06:16:23 AM
They basically confirmed that they were gonna play Lines in the Sand, probably that's gonna be the only DT song in the set, if not, there will be another one maxium I guess. It's not gonna be 1/3 of DT covers for sure.

Fair enough then. I think it's probably okay to do that song, considering the line-up. Just so long as there are no more, or that they are kept to FII. Coming to think of it, that song would really fit Jeff's voice.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: max_security on October 15, 2017, 06:47:37 AM
Quote
And yeah, I'm sure Soto is a great singer in his own right, but I don't think he's totally at home in the prog metal genre.

There was a time where he was perfectly at home in what we were calling " progressive heavy metal " at the time. His vocals on the first two Yngwie albums were awesome to say the least . I have not kept up with his musical endeavors in the past 32 years and I'm sure he has lost a step or two , but I would bet on other factors ( direction or production ) before I would doubt Jeff's abilities.

The whole DS twitter events will have everything picked apart on this album good grief. Should have been Tony MacAlpine or Jens Johanasson , both are at least as good and a lot less bs.   
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Fritzinger on October 15, 2017, 07:59:28 AM
Even funnier is that if you look at the Cruise to the Edge 2018 banner, they are listed as one of the top acts alongside Steve Hackett and Marillion (just below Yes). How does a band with ZERO PEDIGREE get equal billing as those proven (over numerous DECADES) acts? 

Many would argue that Haken has been the top prog act of the 10s, yet they are billed underneath a band that has no proven track record, never done a full length show, etc. 

It's almost comical.

To be quite honest, even if the whole is not good, the individual members of SoA amount to far more notoriety than a band like Haken ever will. I really don't think Haken will ever achieve great success than they have right now, because they are simply not that good.

While I do think Haken is a great band (while personally not enjoying them due to the vocals), I think their appeal is limited, even amongst prog metal fans. I honestly don't think they will ever come close to Opeth, let alone Steven Wilson in terms of prog crowd sizes or record sales in European countries.


I think that's really not fair. They are a band that is changing their sound and influences with every album, and still gaining more and more fans. I have turned on friends of mine to Haken who used to listen to nothin but Bonobo and Mac Demarco, and now they love them not only because their music is fantastic (and btw has a strong pop-appeal next to the technical and metal side), but also because they're young, cool and nice guys. They have a good marketing strategy, they make good jokes, they have a close relationship to their fans (for gods sake, I drank beer with the guys on the center place in Dresden) - AND YES! They are SIMPLY THAT GOOD, and I am sorry but I get angry when someone says that Haken are "simply not that good". Please give me another band that has influenced the prog metal scene that well in the last 8 years.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: KevShmev on October 15, 2017, 08:03:13 AM
Yes, BUT

While I get that the individual member have earned a reputation of creating music (I'm leaving subjective opinions on quality aside), we're dealing with a band that has no music (apart from the two singles they released) out yet. These festivals are booking them merely on the merit of their previous reputation and not on the quality of their new music and that's what's bothering me.
Festival billing is based on who will draw a crowd, rather than quality of music.

And Sons of Apollo has a history of being a good draw?

Oh wait, they have Mike Portnoy, whose name is guaranteed to draw big crowds, right?  Shoot, look at those big crowds Adrenaline Mob drew...oh wait. :lol :lol
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Elite on October 15, 2017, 08:28:07 AM
I think that's really not fair. They are a band that is changing their sound and influences with every album

Sorry, but as much as I enjoy Haken (and I've been with them since Aquarius and have seen them a dozen times), to say they are changing their sound on every album is simply not true. Although the sound may have gotten more refined on their latter records, it's still very much based on 'traditional' progressive metal, whatever that may mean.



Please give me another band that has influenced the prog metal scene that well in the last 8 years.

Leprous & Steven Wilson, both bands that have actually changed their sound on every album they released.

---

Sorry for derailing the thread.

Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: KevShmev on October 15, 2017, 08:29:34 AM
Steven Wilson is not metal.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Elite on October 15, 2017, 08:31:21 AM
Steven Wilson is not metal.

Strawman.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: TAC on October 15, 2017, 08:33:13 AM
Steven Wilson is not metal.

Strawman.

What?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: KevShmev on October 15, 2017, 08:35:10 AM
Steven Wilson is not metal.

Strawman.

 :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Elite on October 15, 2017, 08:37:15 AM
Steven Wilson is not metal.

Strawman.

What?

A 'straw man' is a logical fallacy. Misrepresenting what I said to make it easier to attack.

From wikipedia: A straw man is a common form of argument and is an informal fallacy based on giving the impression of refuting an opponent's argument, while refuting an argument that was not presented by that opponent.

---

derailing the thread even further!  ;D
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: TAC on October 15, 2017, 08:38:34 AM
I KNOW what a Strawman is.

How anyone would put Steven Wilson and Metal in the same sentence does not compute.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: KevShmev on October 15, 2017, 08:42:18 AM
Exactly.

"AC/DC influences country music."

"AC/DC is not country."

"STRAWMAN!!!"

 :biggrin: :biggrin: :lol :lol
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Fritzinger on October 15, 2017, 08:52:14 AM
I think that's really not fair. They are a band that is changing their sound and influences with every album

Sorry, but as much as I enjoy Haken (and I've been with them since Aquarius and have seen them a dozen times), to say they are changing their sound on every album is simply not true. Although the sound may have gotten more refined on their latter records, it's still very much based on 'traditional' progressive metal, whatever that may mean.



Please give me another band that has influenced the prog metal scene that well in the last 8 years.

Leprous & Steven Wilson, both bands that have actually changed their sound on every album they released.

---

Sorry for derailing the thread.

Cant say much about Leprous. But Steven has also taken influences and is building his signature sound around them.
I don't call what Affinity is "traditional" or even generic (to use a word that has been used in this thread quite a lot) Progressive Metal. I call what Redemption makes traditional, generic Progressive Metal. But Haken have evolved masterfully from Aquarius to Affinity. The Mountain was a friggin masterpiece, and I never thought they would top that, until they did.
For me, this band is the brightest star at the Prog Metal sky right now. Let's see what SoA will put out but I doubt it will ever reach the complexity and musicality of Affinity.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ariich on October 15, 2017, 09:31:37 AM
Yes, BUT

While I get that the individual member have earned a reputation of creating music (I'm leaving subjective opinions on quality aside), we're dealing with a band that has no music (apart from the two singles they released) out yet. These festivals are booking them merely on the merit of their previous reputation and not on the quality of their new music and that's what's bothering me.
Festival billing is based on who will draw a crowd, rather than quality of music.

And Sons of Apollo has a history of being a good draw?

Oh wait, they have Mike Portnoy, whose name is guaranteed to draw big crowds, right?  Shoot, look at those big crowds Adrenaline Mob drew...oh wait. :lol :lol
Not MP alone, but the lineup as a whole (particularly at a prog festival), yeah I think that's a definite draw.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: PROGdrummer on October 15, 2017, 11:07:24 AM
The argument that this group shouldn't get top billing or decent billing at a festival is so stupid.

If Slash, Dave Grohl, Flea, and , idk, let's say Miles Kennedy formed a new band, they would hands down get top or near top billing at whatever festivals they were playing at.  Even if they didn't have a lick of original material out there for public consumption. The Plastic Ono Band got the exact same opprotunity back when that was a thing.

When you draw the lines from SoA, you'll see the connections they have are pretty huge. Between Kiss, Alice Cooper, Van Halen, Creed, Scott Stahp, Trans-Siberian Orchestra, Zakk Wylde,  Joe Bonamossa, Jason Bonham, Dream Theater, Twisted Sister, Avenged Sevenfold...

I mean, holy fucking shit. Why would this band NOT get top billing. News flash: every single member of this band has paid their dues, they've all established their names, and they all have massive "street-cred" when it comes to the rock and metal scene.  They deserve it.  If James Labrie was the singer of some random supergroup and they got top billing, I doubt most of you would be making the same fuss you are making here. You would be applauding.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: RodrigoAltaf on October 15, 2017, 11:15:36 AM
Well said
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: devieira73 on October 15, 2017, 11:40:33 AM
That's it. Unfortunately everything that comes from SoA on this forum, if there's 0.0001% chance to be interpreted in the worst way, it will be by the majority here, no doubt.
I don't have a crystal ball, but I do think this CD has a lot of potential to be a sucess in the genre AND be very well received by rock fans in general. If this will happen, I'm curious to see the reaction here.
"Sucess doesn't mean quality ...", of course, and on and on... ::)
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: The Walrus on October 15, 2017, 11:41:25 AM
I respectfully disagree with the premise that these guys are on equal footing as, say, Slash. I don't think any of the members of SoA are on the same level as Slash, or Flea, etc. as far as popularity goes, however. Especially Sheehan, or Bumblefoot, or even Soto. Most people who know rock music will recognize Flea or Slash or Dave Grohl. Not a single person I know knows any of these guys except Portnoy.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: MirrorMask on October 15, 2017, 11:49:53 AM
So you know people that while they listen to Dream Theater, they never bothered with Guns n' Roses, Malmsteen, Journey and Trans Siberian Orchestra?

At the very worst I knew them all by name already, even though I was not following closely those bands except for TSO.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Adami on October 15, 2017, 11:56:14 AM
So you know people that while they listen to Dream Theater, they never bothered with Guns n' Roses, Malmsteen, Journey and Trans Siberian Orchestra?

At the very worst I knew them all by name already, even though I was not following closely those bands except for TSO.

That’s us. I knew who they all were too. But the general public? You expect them to know the bassist for Mr. big by name? You expect them to know one  of the half dozen guys in GNR by name? You expect them to know one of the more than a dozen TSO singers by name? Very unlikely.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: The Walrus on October 15, 2017, 11:58:12 AM
With all due respect, MM, while I myself am familiar with all of those artists, not everyone is a huge music buff. I have a friend who is a big Portnoy fan but only knows his DT era stuff, and doesn't really consider himself a big DT fan in the first place. He doesn't listen to neoclassical shred, Journey, TSO, and knows nothing about Bumblefoot era GNR because he like many other people (sadly) jumped ship well before Chinese Democracy came out.

I live in a rural area. If I mentioned Mike Portnoy (probably the most popular name in this group) to 100 people in my town I bet maybe 10 people max would go 'oh I know him.' Not an exaggeration. I'd be lucky to get 5 I bet. But I'd wager a much larger portion would know who Dave Grohl, Slash, etc. are. My coworkers know about Journey and GnR etc. but they don't know Jeff Scott Soto and barely know Mike Portnoy.

Basically, what Adami said ^
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: TAC on October 15, 2017, 11:59:10 AM
So you know people that while they listen to Dream Theater, they never bothered with Guns n' Roses, Malmsteen, Journey and Trans Siberian Orchestra?

At the very worst I knew them all by name already, even though I was not following closely those bands except for TSO.

Are we saying that Slash, Flea, and Dave Grohl have the same name recognition as Bumblefoot, Portnoy, Sheehan, and Soto?

Slash, Flea, and Grohl are rock music icons.



Educated hard rock fans certainly should recognize the SoA names. Soto sang on the Malmsteen albums over 30 years ago. So he did a bit with Journey. OK, but what did they do, anything?? I've heard of TSO, but couldn't name a single performer other than saying it's the Savatage guys, but even then, I couldn't even name them.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: The Walrus on October 15, 2017, 12:01:12 PM
Hell, even with me, a music buff: I'm a fan of Bill Hudson. I've been a fan since 06 when Cellador released their first album. I didn't even know he was in TSO (edit: not years, just 2015 I think) until a few months ago, and I follow musicians I enjoy like crazy!
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: TAC on October 15, 2017, 12:02:41 PM
Hell, even with me, a music buff: I'm a fan of Bill Hudson. I've been a fan since 06 when Cellador released their first album. I didn't even know he was in TSO (edit: not years, just 2015 I think) until a few months ago, and I follow musicians I enjoy like crazy!


They released one of my favorite albums of 2017.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Madman Shepherd on October 15, 2017, 12:09:33 PM
So you know people that while they listen to Dream Theater, they never bothered with Guns n' Roses, Malmsteen, Journey and Trans Siberian Orchestra?

At the very worst I knew them all by name already, even though I was not following closely those bands except for TSO.

That’s us. I knew who they all were too. But the general public? You expect them to know the bassist for Mr. big by name? You expect them to know one  of the half dozen guys in GNR by name? You expect them to know one of the more than a dozen TSO singers by name? Very unlikely.

On that same token, if Slash and those other guys formed a band, they could get top billing for Lollapalooza or some other huge festival and expect to get 30 - 50,000 people in the crowd each night.  Sons of Apollo are headlining a cruise and some prog festival in Barcelona.  From pictures I just looked up it looks like there may be 5000 people max at the festival and on the cruise ship, who knows?  1500 people? The prog festival in Atlanta isn't that big either and people travel from all over the world for that and bring in a few thousand. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: TAC on October 15, 2017, 12:13:13 PM
But the general public? You expect them to know the bassist for Mr. big by name? 

I wouldn't think the general public would've ever even heard of Mr. Big.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: PROGdrummer on October 15, 2017, 12:16:33 PM
So you know people that while they listen to Dream Theater, they never bothered with Guns n' Roses, Malmsteen, Journey and Trans Siberian Orchestra?

At the very worst I knew them all by name already, even though I was not following closely those bands except for TSO.

Are we saying that Slash, Flea, and Dave Grohl have the same name recognition as Bumblefoot, Portnoy, Sheehan, and Soto?

Uh, no? I never even implied that they were on the same level. All I'm saying is that collectively, SoA already has established their street cred just solely based on who is in the band. All you have to do is put those names on a bill together and the value of the group goes up.

And for the record, most average people and normie music listeners dont know jack shit about ANY band, regardless of their fame. If I go up to random people (or even my own peers) and asked them if they knew who Flea, or Dave Grohl, or David Lee Roth was, I guarantee half of the people I asked would have no idea.

Last month, my parents went to see Deep Purple, Foreigner, and The Jason Bonham Zeppelin Experience live with their friends. My dad doesnt know a single Purple song aside from Smoke on The Water, and he didnt even know who Jason Bonham was. People will get hyped over something that they don't even know about. I asked my dad if he saw Steve Morse play, and told him that he was in a band with Portnoy and Neal Morse. He had know idea what I was talking about. But he didnt even know that drummer of Led Zeppelin's name was Bonham, so it's not like that's saying much.

For people who actually give a shit about music, the names on SoA hold value and weight. At Morsefest '17, I was in a room full of hundreds of people who had the discographies of every obscure 70s, 80s, and 90s art-rock band committed to memory.  The people who go to festivals are a decent balance of musically oblivious normies who will listen to anything that the promoter tells them is going to be "cool" and people who actually know what they bought tickets for.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: KevShmev on October 15, 2017, 12:18:04 PM
The argument that this group shouldn't get top billing or decent billing at a festival is so stupid.

If Slash, Dave Grohl, Flea, and , idk, let's say Miles Kennedy formed a new band, they would hands down get top or near top billing at whatever festivals they were playing at.  Even if they didn't have a lick of original material out there for public consumption. The Plastic Ono Band got the exact same opprotunity back when that was a thing.

When you draw the lines from SoA, you'll see the connections they have are pretty huge. Between Kiss, Alice Cooper, Van Halen, Creed, Scott Stahp, Trans-Siberian Orchestra, Zakk Wylde,  Joe Bonamossa, Jason Bonham, Dream Theater, Twisted Sister, Avenged Sevenfold...

I mean, holy fucking shit. Why would this band NOT get top billing. News flash: every single member of this band has paid their dues, they've all established their names, and they all have massive "street-cred" when it comes to the rock and metal scene.  They deserve it.  If James Labrie was the singer of some random supergroup and they got top billing, I doubt most of you would be making the same fuss you are making here. You would be applauding.

Which member of this band played in Van Halen?

Also, no one said they haven't paid their dues, but let's not act like these guys are household names (none of them are), or that all of them were known names in prog circles. I was not in alone in having never heard of the singer or Stumblebum prior to this project.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: MirrorMask on October 15, 2017, 12:22:08 PM
So you know people that while they listen to Dream Theater, they never bothered with Guns n' Roses, Malmsteen, Journey and Trans Siberian Orchestra?

At the very worst I knew them all by name already, even though I was not following closely those bands except for TSO.

That’s us. I knew who they all were too. But the general public? You expect them to know the bassist for Mr. big by name? You expect them to know one  of the half dozen guys in GNR by name? You expect them to know one of the more than a dozen TSO singers by name? Very unlikely.

On that same token, if Slash and those other guys formed a band, they could get top billing for Lollapalooza or some other huge festival and expect to get 30 - 50,000 people in the crowd each night.  Sons of Apollo are headlining a cruise and some prog festival in Barcelona.  From pictures I just looked up it looks like there may be 5000 people max at the festival and on the cruise ship, who knows?  1500 people? The prog festival in Atlanta isn't that big either and people travel from all over the world for that and bring in a few thousand.

That's basically what I was saying, that with due comparisons to the popularity of the names of the previous example, it's not far fetched for someone who knows Dream Theater to know that JSS is a singer popping up here and there, that Bumblefoot was the name of one of the guitarists for Guns n' Roses etc... I was supporting the idea that a high billing for the band in the kind of festival they are booked is in the end justified.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: TAC on October 15, 2017, 12:24:57 PM
The only high billing they'd get would be on the next Mike Portnoy cruise.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Anguyen92 on October 15, 2017, 12:30:22 PM
The argument that this group shouldn't get top billing or decent billing at a festival is so stupid.

If Slash, Dave Grohl, Flea, and , idk, let's say Miles Kennedy formed a new band, they would hands down get top or near top billing at whatever festivals they were playing at.  Even if they didn't have a lick of original material out there for public consumption. The Plastic Ono Band got the exact same opprotunity back when that was a thing.

That's a funny thing about that.  When Them Crooked Vultures were touring around 2010 and doing festivals like Download, they only had one album worth of material and yet they had high billing for the most part.  Of course, as people have mentioned already, the band members there were way more recognizable than the guys of SOA.  You had Josh Homme (Queens of the Stone Age leader), Dave Grohl (Foo Fighters leader), and John Paul Jones (bassist of Led Zeppelin and the guy that incorporated all kinds of weird instruments for Zeppelin that gave them the ability to be as diverse as they were).  Very big big mainstream names.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: PROGdrummer on October 15, 2017, 12:31:38 PM
Which member of this band played in Van Halen?

Sorry, not Van Halen per say, but Sheehan has worked with David Lee Roth several times. I mis-spoke  a bit there.
But you'd be surprised how many legendary rockstars are really not "household names" at all. People have heard their songs, and maybe even seen them play, but still not know who they are. Success doesnt always equal fame. Michael Jackson is a household name. Peter Gabriel is a household name. Dee Snyder? Maybe not as much, honestly. Tony Banks who? Taylor Hawkins who?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Lethean on October 15, 2017, 12:35:13 PM
I agree with Mirror Mask on this.  While those who are saying that SoA doesn't have the name recognition that Slash and Dave Grohl have are correct, I think MM is also correct that SoA have enough recognition to get top festival billing on a prog cruise or festival.  Just about everyone interested in attending such a festival knows who Mike and Derek are.  I would guess Billy Sheehan too.  That's probably enough right there.  Then you have Jeff Scott Soto who maybe isn't a big prog name, but a lot of people know him through Yngwie. 

In a perfect world, Haken and Pain of Salvation would get the higher billing over SoA (and I say that as someone who strongly dislikes PoS). It's not, and I really don't have a problem with SoA getting the higher billing.  James LaBrie is headling ProgPower USA next year, and I think deservedly so.  His name, like SoA, will bring people in who might be attending the festival for the very first time, and that's something.  However, a lot of people like "us" may not consider his recent output to be prog metal, and may find it odd that his band, though established, would headline over a band like Redemption that a lot of prog metal fans know and love.  It's just the way it is.

It doesn't mean SoA is going to be this great new prog metal band, but people are going to see them and probably many are going to like it.  It doesn't really do it for me, but I can see it appealing to segments of all 5 members existing fan bases. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: KevShmev on October 15, 2017, 12:44:27 PM
Which member of this band played in Van Halen?

Sorry, not Van Halen per say, but Sheehan has worked with David Lee Roth several times. I mis-spoke  a bit there.
But you'd be surprised how many legendary rockstars are really not "household names" at all. People have heard their songs, and maybe even seen them play, but still not know who they are. Success doesnt always equal fame. Michael Jackson is a household name. Peter Gabriel is a household name. Dee Snyder? Maybe not as much, honestly. Tony Banks who? Taylor Hawkins who?

It's a different world now, to be honest. Shoot, growing up in the 80s, everyone could name a few guys from at least every band that was popular at all, but not anymore.  Shoot, for a big as Muse is, go up to 100 people on the street and you'd be lucky to find 10 who could even identify Matt Bellamy as being one of the guys in that band.  Unless you are a massive pop star (Katy Perry, Beyonce, etc.) or a media attention whore (K West), the average public doesn't know your name anymore.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: King Postwhore on October 15, 2017, 12:48:57 PM
He's the dude thst got sloppy seconds after Chris Robinson. :biggrin:
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: KevShmev on October 15, 2017, 12:51:02 PM
I doubt he was the second... :rollin :rollin
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: King Postwhore on October 15, 2017, 12:52:40 PM
 :lol
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: TAC on October 15, 2017, 01:14:14 PM
I wouldn't know Matt Belamy if he walked up and introduced himself.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: RodrigoAltaf on October 15, 2017, 06:38:45 PM
Just to use one very broad parameter: which band is getting more movement in their thread here in DTF: Haken, Leprous, POS or Sons of Apollo?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: gzarruk on October 15, 2017, 06:41:50 PM
Just to use one very broad parameter: which band is getting more movement in their thread here in DTF: Haken, Leprous, POS or Sons of Apollo?

Which band's members started to talk crap about their previous band and offended a big part of their potential market?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: RodrigoAltaf on October 15, 2017, 06:47:05 PM
Just to use one very broad parameter: which band is getting more movement in their thread here in DTF: Haken, Leprous, POS or Sons of Apollo?

Which band's members started to talk crap about their previous band and offended a big part of their potential market?

There's no such thing as bad publicity. I highly doubt anyone would not see them or any other band because "their keyboard player makes jokes about apps"
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: KevShmev on October 15, 2017, 06:48:12 PM
Just to use one very broad parameter: which band is getting more movement in their thread here in DTF: Haken, Leprous, POS or Sons of Apollo?

That doesn't mean jack squat. Just about any band that gets talked about around here at all always sees a lot of chatter in the weeks/months leading up to the album's release, especially if that CD is by Dream Theater or a former member.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: King Postwhore on October 15, 2017, 06:48:29 PM
Just to use one very broad parameter: which band is getting more movement in their thread here in DTF: Haken, Leprous, POS or Sons of Apollo?

Who's coming out with a new album? When Haken cones out with a new album thst thread will be through the roof. It's all timing.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: RodrigoAltaf on October 15, 2017, 06:52:23 PM
Haken just finished a huge North American tour... Dream Theater is touring extensively their most famous/best album, and yet a lot of people here seem more compelled to discuss this band. And not necessarily the music aspects of it. Are you guys 100% sure this doesn't mean anything?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: King Postwhore on October 15, 2017, 06:53:39 PM
 Dream Theater is not touring behind a new album but neither is Haken.  That's why you're hearing the buzz. Both come out new albums threads are going through the roof.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Mosh on October 15, 2017, 06:54:44 PM
I dunno, there's not much to talk about with a tour. There's probably a good week of buzz before people lose interest.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: KevShmev on October 15, 2017, 06:56:55 PM
Haken just finished a huge North American tour... Dream Theater is touring extensively their most famous/best album, and yet a lot of people here seem more compelled to discuss this band. And not necessarily the music aspects of it. Are you guys 100% sure this doesn't mean anything?

100%, yep.  There was a ton of activity in the A-Mob threads, and most people agreed that they sucked major ass.  Mike Portnoy in general always creates chatter (which you know he loves, even if the criticism drives him nuts).
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: The Walrus on October 15, 2017, 06:59:01 PM
Just to use one very broad parameter: which band is getting more movement in their thread here in DTF: Haken, Leprous, POS or Sons of Apollo?

Which band's members started to talk crap about their previous band and offended a big part of their potential market?

There's no such thing as bad publicity. I highly doubt anyone would not see them or any other band because "their keyboard player makes jokes about apps"

Except it isn't as benign as "their keyboard player makes jokes about apps" - you'd know that if you read the thread  :biggrin: ;)
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: KevShmev on October 15, 2017, 07:11:08 PM


Except it isn't as benign as "their keyboard player makes jokes about apps" - you'd know that if you read the thread  :biggrin: ;)

Well, based on the interview he did that he posted, I think it's clear that he was in clear fan boy mode with this band.  :lol :lol
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: RodrigoAltaf on October 15, 2017, 07:13:30 PM
I read the thread. And yes, I love the album! 5 days until release day. I think you'll all enjoy it.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Lethean on October 15, 2017, 07:20:36 PM
Haken just finished a huge North American tour... Dream Theater is touring extensively their most famous/best album, and yet a lot of people here seem more compelled to discuss this band. And not necessarily the music aspects of it. Are you guys 100% sure this doesn't mean anything?

It does mean something. Just like it meant something when people were talking about Geoff Tate and his shenanigans.  Doesn't mean that it means something good though. I'm neither buying the album nor seeing them live, unless there's a change in behavior (or even, an apology). I won't be holding my breath for those things to happen, however.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: RodrigoAltaf on October 15, 2017, 07:26:32 PM
Haken just finished a huge North American tour... Dream Theater is touring extensively their most famous/best album, and yet a lot of people here seem more compelled to discuss this band. And not necessarily the music aspects of it. Are you guys 100% sure this doesn't mean anything?

It does mean something. Just like it meant something when people were talking about Geoff Tate and his shenanigans.  Doesn't mean that it means something good though. I'm neither buying the album nor seeing them live, unless there's a change in behavior (or even, an apology). I won't be holding my breath for those things to happen, however.

I think that´s a bit extreme...I don´t think I would not see an artist I like because of his behaviour. Maybe if he was a neonazi of some kind. But because they´re taking jabs at a band you like? I don´t approve this, and would never do it myself, but life is short, and I take all the chances I get to see artists I´m interested in. Malmsteen in a major a$$hole, but I´d still see him if I had the chance. But hey, that´s just me.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: BelichickFan on October 15, 2017, 07:28:07 PM
Quote from: Rodrigo Alta
Hey, both Derek and MP posted links to my interview... major fanboy moment for me!!!!
Not that surprising when you called the album mind blowing in the first question. Even if you believe that (I doubt many will) that was a total ass kissing way to start.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Adami on October 15, 2017, 07:29:26 PM
Hm but you're not starting from a neutral position. You're starting from a pro position. You already want to see this band, and their behavior just isn't enough to change your mind.

However, many of us are coming from a neutral position. It's not that we need a reason to not see them, we're looking for reasons TO see them, and some of us aren't finding that.

When we have the choice to pay X amount of (insert currency here) for an event, we have to see if we want to do that. Right now, the music they released thus far and their behavior is enough to put many of us into the "nah" category. We're just choosing NOT to see them. We're not holding tickets we already bought and then choosing to waste them.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: RodrigoAltaf on October 15, 2017, 07:30:40 PM
Quote from: Rodrigo Alta

Hey, both Derek and MP posted links to my interview... major fanboy moment for me!!!!
Not that surprising when you called the album mind blowing in the first question. Even if you believe that (I doubt many will) that was a total ass kissing way to start.

You may not believe it, but that was an honest comment on my part. I really like it, and have been listening to it daily since it was sent to me to prepare for the interview.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: KevShmev on October 15, 2017, 07:32:18 PM
Quote from: Rodrigo Alta

Hey, both Derek and MP posted links to my interview... major fanboy moment for me!!!!
Not that surprising when you called the album mind blowing in the first question. Even if you believe that (I doubt many will) that was a total ass kissing way to start.

You may not believe it, but that was an honest comment on my part. I really like it, and have been listening to it daily since it was sent to me to prepare for the interview.

That is fine, but I cringe any time an interviewer comes off like a total fanboy and you passed go and collected $200 after the first question. :lol

  I'm neither buying the album nor seeing them live,

Same here.  If the album pops up on YT, I will check it out, but considering how bland the first two songs are, I have no interest in spending money on it.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: BelichickFan on October 15, 2017, 07:33:50 PM
Quote from: Rodrigo Alta

Hey, both Derek and MP posted links to my interview... major fanboy moment for me!!!!
Not that surprising when you called the album mind blowing in the first question. Even if you believe that (I doubt many will) that was a total ass kissing way to start.

You may not believe it, but that was an honest comment on my part. I really like it, and have been listening to it daily since it was sent to me to prepare for the interview.
I believe you (despite disagreeing). But it's weird to start with that then be excited that they linked to the review. Whatever, I'm not really in this thread, just thought it was a weird way to start an interview.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: RodrigoAltaf on October 15, 2017, 07:36:04 PM
Quote from: Rodrigo Alta

Hey, both Derek and MP posted links to my interview... major fanboy moment for me!!!!
Not that surprising when you called the album mind blowing in the first question. Even if you believe that (I doubt many will) that was a total ass kissing way to start.

You may not believe it, but that was an honest comment on my part. I really like it, and have been listening to it daily since it was sent to me to prepare for the interview.

That is fine, but I cringe any time an interviewer comes off like a total fanboy and you passed go and collected $200 after the first question. :lol

  I'm neither buying the album nor seeing them live,

Same here.  If the album pops up on YT, I will check it out, but considering how bland the first two songs are, I have no interest in spending money on it.

Are you implying that I got paid to compliment the album? That was not the case, I write concert reviews 100% for free. That website is done by volunteers - the only one collecting money is the website owner, and the source of income is advertising.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: KevShmev on October 15, 2017, 07:38:29 PM
Hm but you're not starting from a neutral position. You're starting from a pro position. You already want to see this band, and their behavior just isn't enough to change your mind.

However, many of us are coming from a neutral position. It's not that we need a reason to not see them, we're looking for reasons TO see them, and some of us aren't finding that.

When we have the choice to pay X amount of (insert currency here) for an event, we have to see if we want to do that. Right now, the music they released thus far and their behavior is enough to put many of us into the "nah" category. We're just choosing NOT to see them. We're not holding tickets we already bought and then choosing to waste them.

Great post!

Even though I am longtime Mike Portnoy critic, I still have no problem buying CDs he is one as long as the music is really good.  Shoot, I am all in on any future Flying Colors studio album, as well as Neal Morse and Transatlantic of course, but I am not "Team Mike" to where I reach for my wallet any time he has a new project.  So far, what I have heard from this project sounds pretty uninteresting, and like you said, the way they have handed themselves on social media tilted the scaled the wrong way. If the music was good enough, I could ignore the white noise.  So far, it is not.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: KevShmev on October 15, 2017, 07:39:14 PM

Are you implying that I got paid to compliment the album? That was not the case, I write concert reviews 100% for free. That website is done by volunteers - the only one collecting money is the website owner, and the source of income is advertising.

 :facepalm: :facepalm:

I take it you have never played Monopoly.  :lol :lol
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: RodrigoAltaf on October 15, 2017, 07:41:29 PM
Quote from: Rodrigo Alta

Hey, both Derek and MP posted links to my interview... major fanboy moment for me!!!!
Not that surprising when you called the album mind blowing in the first question. Even if you believe that (I doubt many will) that was a total ass kissing way to start.

You may not believe it, but that was an honest comment on my part. I really like it, and have been listening to it daily since it was sent to me to prepare for the interview.
I believe you (despite disagreeing). But it's weird to start with that then be excited that they linked to the review. Whatever, I'm not really in this thread, just thought it was a weird way to start an interview.

Why is it weird to compliment an artist´s work at the start of an interview? I´ve seen a lot of interviewers do that. Maybe not that effusively, but first and foremost I´m a fan, and I do this because I like to write about music - I did tell him that before we started. I don´t get paid ANYTHING to write my reviews. It would be nice of course, but that´s not the case yet, and I have zero expectations that it will ever be.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: TAC on October 15, 2017, 07:45:24 PM
Rodrigo, if I may...it's cool.

I think Kev's Monopoloy joke was lost in translation.

It's just that Mike and Derek's comments have been real turn offs. So much so that many may not be willing to even support this project. You like it, that's cool. Honestly, I'd leave it at that.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: RodrigoAltaf on October 15, 2017, 07:48:08 PM

Are you implying that I got paid to compliment the album? That was not the case, I write concert reviews 100% for free. That website is done by volunteers - the only one collecting money is the website owner, and the source of income is advertising.

 :facepalm: :facepalm:

I take it you have never played Monopoly.  :lol :lol

When I was six years old, yes...but never again, and I´m 43 now.

Anyway, I don´t buy EVERYTHING that MP plays in - I don´t have any Transatlantic or Neal Morse albums. And just the same, I own the official Dream Theater releases, but not Yellow Matter Custard or all the gazillion side projects. The last time DT played at my neck of the woods it was The Astonishing, and I chose not to go because I didn´t like that album one bit, despite having given it every chance it deserved. But they´re coming to Toronto now for I&W and I plan on seeing them. Petrucci will be back next year with G3, and count me in - I´ll be there for sure. If I like the material, I´ll go see a band, like I said before. And I like MP live, he has a very cool persona - flaws and questionable choice of backing vocals considered.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Adami on October 15, 2017, 07:51:09 PM
Also complimenting the band in the interview is fine and normal.

I watch people interview actors/directors all the time and they always include a compliment for the upcoming film. I never saw it as a problem.

Now, it CAN go too far, but it didn't seem like it did here.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: King Postwhore on October 15, 2017, 07:52:49 PM
Also complimenting the band in the interview is fine and normal.

I watch people interview actors/directors all the time and they always include a compliment for the upcoming film. I never saw it as a problem.

Now, it CAN go too far, but it didn't seem like it did here.

I'm going there.  Where's my sexy pick with the robe I got you? :lol
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Adami on October 15, 2017, 07:54:55 PM
Also complimenting the band in the interview is fine and normal.

I watch people interview actors/directors all the time and they always include a compliment for the upcoming film. I never saw it as a problem.

Now, it CAN go too far, but it didn't seem like it did here.

I'm going there.  Where's my sexy pick with the robe I got you? :lol

The robe is....no longer here. True story. When I went to visit my mom and our cat (of 14 years) in Israel last May, I brought the robe with me to show off. At one point I laid it down on the bed and then it officially became the cat's. I had no say the in matter. He spent almost all day on that thing, so clearly he claimed ownership. He still has it there and it's his favorite thing in the world last I checked.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: King Postwhore on October 15, 2017, 07:56:03 PM
It seems poetic.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Adami on October 15, 2017, 08:00:33 PM
It seems poetic.

Actually I found one I took as a joke for a girl I was dating!

(https://image.ibb.co/eBaZkm/IMG_3054.jpg)
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: pcs90 on October 15, 2017, 08:08:29 PM
For me personally, regardless of what may have been said by a band member, I will always give the music a chance if I have any interest in checking it out. I just do not care for this album. Their comments certainly don't help, but if the music stands on its own I could totally disregard them and enjoy the tunes. Just doesn't click with me. Meanwhile I love The Astonishing even though it is a bit cheesy. Different tastes.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: RodrigoAltaf on October 15, 2017, 08:11:21 PM
For me personally, regardless of what may have been said by a band member, I will always give the music a chance if I have any interest in checking it out. I just do not care for this album. Their comments certainly don't help, but if the music stands on its own I could totally disregard them and enjoy the tunes. Just doesn't click with me. Meanwhile I love The Astonishing even though it is a bit cheesy. Different tastes.

I see your point. And the only comment I have is: give the other tracks a chance. The ones released so far are not the best representation of the album. You may enjoy the rest of it!
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Lethean on October 15, 2017, 09:38:41 PM
Hm but you're not starting from a neutral position. You're starting from a pro position. You already want to see this band, and their behavior just isn't enough to change your mind.

However, many of us are coming from a neutral position. It's not that we need a reason to not see them, we're looking for reasons TO see them, and some of us aren't finding that.

When we have the choice to pay X amount of (insert currency here) for an event, we have to see if we want to do that. Right now, the music they released thus far and their behavior is enough to put many of us into the "nah" category. We're just choosing NOT to see them. We're not holding tickets we already bought and then choosing to waste them.

Good points.  For myself, I actually didn't start neutral - I started from a "pro" position.  I wanted to like it, I wanted to be excited for it; I wanted to be "all in" so to speak.  If I had stayed that way, I would have supported them even though the music turned out to be not what I was hoping for.  I would have recommended them to people I thought would like them more than I do.  I would have seen them live (I saw Adrenaline Mob after all; this should at least be better than that).  Now, no thanks.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Madman Shepherd on October 15, 2017, 10:16:49 PM
Just to use one very broad parameter: which band is getting more movement in their thread here in DTF: Haken, Leprous, POS or Sons of Apollo?

Which band's members started to talk crap about their previous band and offended a big part of their potential market?

There's no such thing as bad publicity.

Well then, I guess Harvey Weinstein's career is really going to take off now!
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: The Silent Cody on October 15, 2017, 10:24:05 PM
So, 4 days to release left, 20th October will be a very painful day for my wallet I suppose... New Europe, Trivium and SoA... I wasn't around here for 3 days, did I miss something? ;)
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: nobloodyname on October 16, 2017, 12:29:54 AM
I wasn't around here for 3 days, did I miss something? ;)

Same people, same points. Same people, same points. Same people, same points. Same people, same points.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ganpondorodf on October 16, 2017, 02:36:55 AM
I wasn't around here for 3 days, did I miss something? ;)

Same people, same points. Same people, same points. Same people, same points. Same people, same points.

Welcome to the internet, you must be new
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: MirrorMask on October 16, 2017, 02:42:51 AM
If at all, this thread proves that we metalheads (or progheads) are not that much dissimilar from pop music fans, when it comes to discussing their heroes  :lol

Pop music has almost zero substance, so all that you have is gossip, celebrities flirts and the occasional hit song. With "our" music there's more to the plate and actual dedication to the music itself to discuss, but when such online drama occours, we're just drawn to it like other people are interested in seeing how Lady Gaga and Madonna are at odds, or how Jennifer Aniston comments on Angelina Jolie.

Let's admit we like musical gossip too  :D
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: SjundeInseglet on October 16, 2017, 05:18:53 AM
Haken just finished a huge North American tour... Dream Theater is touring extensively their most famous/best album, and yet a lot of people here seem more compelled to discuss this band. And not necessarily the music aspects of it. Are you guys 100% sure this doesn't mean anything?

I've seen you say this before but fail to understand its reach. The Images, Words & Beyond 25th Anniversary Tour started back in January and it was widely and rountinely discussed in the following months. You can easily dig up a ton of threads about the tour if you care to do so. Considering the band is playing a fixed setlist, it's perfectably understandable that the tour itself is no longer a hot topic around these parts.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: devieira73 on October 16, 2017, 05:40:37 AM
Lost in Oblivion: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YyPQjVUVq4s
That rhythm part reminds of DT's Let Me Breathe.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ariich on October 16, 2017, 05:47:20 AM
If at all, this thread proves that we metalheads (or progheads) are not that much dissimilar from pop music fans, when it comes to discussing their heroes  :lol

Pop music has almost zero substance, so all that you have is gossip, celebrities flirts and the occasional hit song. With "our" music there's more to the plate and actual dedication to the music itself to discuss, but when such online drama occours, we're just drawn to it like other people are interested in seeing how Lady Gaga and Madonna are at odds, or how Jennifer Aniston comments on Angelina Jolie.

Let's admit we like musical gossip too  :D
As a group of people, absolutely. I find it all a load of silly nonsense myself, but there's no denying that people are drawn to drama. The funny thing is that this particular drama is frankly so tame and unexciting. :lol
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Peter Mc on October 16, 2017, 06:15:24 AM
So you know people that while they listen to Dream Theater, they never bothered with Guns n' Roses, Malmsteen, Journey and Trans Siberian Orchestra?

At the very worst I knew them all by name already, even though I was not following closely those bands except for TSO.

Got to be honest, I don't follow TSO at all, couldn't tell you one band member other than JSS and that's only because of this thread.  Plenty of people who follow Guns N' Roses would generally think of Slash or maybe Izzy Stradlin when talking about guitar players.  Even on Chinese Democracy there was much more publicity around Buckethead and Robin Finck than Ron Thal.  I pretty much guarantee that most GNR fans wouldn't know him if they fell over him.  Same with Soto and Journey, he did one tour with them and does not appear on any album.  Again most Journey fans would not be taking any great interest in JSS, Malmsteen's band is a revolving door and no one really cares about anyone else in the band apart from the man himself.  That's not to say that I don't follow JSS, I thought he was Yngwie's best ever singer and was great with Axel Rudi Pell as well.  He surprised me with his more smooth AOR vocals in Journey but I've always seen him as a metal singer.

To the guy throwing in the likes of Kiss, Alice Cooper etc.  I bet pretty much no one could name the current keyboard player for Kiss or Alice Cooper so why would anyone know that Derek Sherinian was.  DT made him a bit of a name and he has done his best to run with it but that is it.  Portnoy is big in the drumming world undoubtedly but by no means a household name to anyone who is not a fan of DT.  He was drummer for a bit in Twisted Sister but I couldn't name any of their previous drummers or indeed any band member apart from Dee Snider.  A7X was his most high profile gig but again, only one album and tour and that was really all about the Rev more than MP.  Sheehan has played with Mr Big (not so big outside of the US) and DLR but he's a bass player, no one goes to a show to see a bass player do they?

Had I personally heard of all of them? Yes but I'm the type who still buys cd's and reads the booklets from cover to cover!

After saying all that, I'd put them on a bill above Haken who are undoubtedly well thought of but not a big band at all.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: noxon on October 16, 2017, 08:03:01 AM
And to be fair, we're talking cruise to the edge and be prog my friend here. Not Graspop or Wacken or Download. Mike Portnoy in name alone is bigger than most everyone else on those types of festivals.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Hourglass Prison on October 16, 2017, 08:19:58 AM
I was always under the impression that Mr. Big was much more successful outside of the US. I know we have that one big radio hit that we know them by here, but aren’t they huge in Japan or something?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: RodrigoAltaf on October 16, 2017, 08:26:43 AM
Yeah, Mr. Big are still huge in Japan.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: The Walrus on October 16, 2017, 08:55:33 AM
Derek's Twitter: "There will NOT be a novel adaptation of "Psychotic Symphony", but we will have SOCKS OF APOLLO available soon!"

Criiiiiinge... why of all things are they marketing socks?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Mindflux on October 16, 2017, 08:56:56 AM
Derek's Twitter: "There will NOT be a novel adaptation of "Psychotic Symphony", but we will have SOCKS OF APOLLO available soon!"

Criiiiiinge... why of all things are they marketing socks?

I'm pretty sure that was sarcasm.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Madman Shepherd on October 16, 2017, 09:03:18 AM
Derek's Twitter: "There will NOT be a novel adaptation of "Psychotic Symphony", but we will have SOCKS OF APOLLO available soon!"

Translation: Even if we wanted to we do not have the type of popularity to warrant a novelization of our album.  #clubband   
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: The Walrus on October 16, 2017, 09:12:14 AM
Derek's Twitter: "There will NOT be a novel adaptation of "Psychotic Symphony", but we will have SOCKS OF APOLLO available soon!"

Criiiiiinge... why of all things are they marketing socks?

I'm pretty sure that was sarcasm.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DMDYX2cUIAAmD8d.jpg:large)

That's some convincing sarcasm  :lol
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Mindflux on October 16, 2017, 09:14:32 AM
Derek's Twitter: "There will NOT be a novel adaptation of "Psychotic Symphony", but we will have SOCKS OF APOLLO available soon!"

Criiiiiinge... why of all things are they marketing socks?

I'm pretty sure that was sarcasm.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DMDYX2cUIAAmD8d.jpg:large)

That's some convincing sarcasm  :lol

It's a shop, I can tell by the pixels.

Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bosk1 on October 16, 2017, 09:14:41 AM
Well, in all fairness, it's hard to argue that you have metal pedigree and swagger if you don't have socks, so...
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: rumborak on October 16, 2017, 09:17:42 AM
Is that because ... they will rock our socks off?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: RodrigoAltaf on October 16, 2017, 09:25:10 AM
Where are those socks being sold????
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: MirrorMask on October 16, 2017, 09:25:15 AM
Wacky idea but I have to admit they look kinda pretty   :biggrin:
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: RodrigoAltaf on October 16, 2017, 09:27:44 AM
There are stores in Toronto that sell socks by Slayer, Motorhead and Maiden.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ariich on October 16, 2017, 09:35:10 AM
Haken sell all kinds of weird merch too, normally as a limited run so that people want to buy them before they run out. Seems to be quite a good money maker.

Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: RodrigoAltaf on October 16, 2017, 09:36:56 AM
Haken sell all kinds of weird merch too, normally as a limited run so that people want to buy them before they run out. Seems to be quite a good money maker.

Yeah, at the show I went to they were selling Haken coffee...wtf!!  :D
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on October 16, 2017, 09:41:58 AM
Haken sell all kinds of weird merch too, normally as a limited run so that people want to buy them before they run out. Seems to be quite a good money maker.

Yeah, at the show I went to they were selling Haken coffee...wtf!!  :D

Been getting the facebook ad for the Haken Joggers  :lol  Whatever works. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: RodrigoAltaf on October 16, 2017, 09:49:10 AM
I got it too, cramx
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Stadler on October 16, 2017, 09:49:49 AM
Just to use one very broad parameter: which band is getting more movement in their thread here in DTF: Haken, Leprous, POS or Sons of Apollo?

Which band's members started to talk crap about their previous band and offended a big part of their potential market?


I think you're vastly overstating the impact of Derek's jokes.     Even here, a place that actually cares about what he's saying, the reaction is 50-50 at best.   The "big[gest] part" of the audience doesn't give a crap either way and is going to buy a good album (if it's good) and ignore a shit album (if it's shit). 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: millahh on October 16, 2017, 09:53:18 AM
Derek's Twitter: "There will NOT be a novel adaptation of "Psychotic Symphony", but we will have SOCKS OF APOLLO available soon!"

Criiiiiinge... why of all things are they marketing socks?

Sons of Apollo...THE FLAMETHROWER!
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Madman Shepherd on October 16, 2017, 09:57:27 AM
Derek's Twitter: "There will NOT be a novel adaptation of "Psychotic Symphony", but we will have SOCKS OF APOLLO available soon!"

Criiiiiinge... why of all things are they marketing socks?

Sons of Apollo...THE FLAMETHROWER!

Sons of Apollo...THE TOILET PAPER!

(https://static.libsyn.com/p/assets/1/9/4/a/194a754152768e4b/spaceballs_toilet_paper.jpg)
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Aythesryche on October 16, 2017, 10:06:12 AM
Derek's Twitter: "There will NOT be a novel adaptation of "Psychotic Symphony", but we will have SOCKS OF APOLLO available soon!"

Criiiiiinge... why of all things are they marketing socks?

Sons of Apollo...THE FLAMETHROWER!

DT Already did it, though.

(https://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w265/llamabearduck/flamethrower1_zpsc6c0etwh.jpg~original)
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Samsara on October 16, 2017, 10:16:06 AM
Derek's Twitter: "There will NOT be a novel adaptation of "Psychotic Symphony", but we will have SOCKS OF APOLLO available soon!"

Criiiiiinge... why of all things are they marketing socks?

I have the SOA album coming on Friday. And I am trying to look the other way with some of the cringe-worthy stuff. But what I don't understand is...why the continued veiled shots at Dream Theater? Why is it necessary?

At some point, you just move on. If Derek is releasing 20 years of pent up frustration...I mean, shouldn't he have gotten over that by now? Even if it is just his quirky sense of humor...I get it, I have friends that poke fun at stuff for a laugh. But it is getting harder and harder to give Derek and Mike the benefit of the doubt.

I have no doubt SOA will be right up my alley as a music fan. But if DS continues to be this way...
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Sycsa on October 16, 2017, 10:26:30 AM
Yeah, Mr. Big are still huge in Japan.
They should rename themselves Mr. Big in Japan.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: RodrigoAltaf on October 16, 2017, 10:38:41 AM
Yeah, Mr. Big are still huge in Japan.
They should rename themselves Mr. Big in Japan.

Tonight?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: pcs90 on October 16, 2017, 10:40:48 AM
Derek's Twitter: "There will NOT be a novel adaptation of "Psychotic Symphony", but we will have SOCKS OF APOLLO available soon!"

Criiiiiinge... why of all things are they marketing socks?

He's obviously trying to target the "JR has no feel, TA sucks balls, DT is crap without MP" crowd. In that market he may be very successful.
Many fans did love the direction DT was going in with MP, with the heavier metal-y songs. This album seems to be an answer to that. So if you think about it like that, the jabs at DT do make more sense even if I think they're unprofessional.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ganpondorodf on October 16, 2017, 10:56:32 AM
So Derek is still coming across as a sad little boy. Whatever works for him I guess!
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: the keyboard wizard on October 16, 2017, 11:01:55 AM
Where are those socks being sold????
It's not fake, they are real. You will get news soon.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: emtee on October 16, 2017, 11:04:23 AM
Is there a reason why SoA would not be listed anywhere on Progarchives? I've been visiting that site for many
years and there are ample examples of bands that straddle the prog fence but still appear there with reviews
and info. Maybe MP requested postponing discussion until after the release?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Mebert78 on October 16, 2017, 11:14:33 AM
Is there a reason why SoA would not be listed anywhere on Progarchives? I've been visiting that site for many
years and there are ample examples of bands that straddle the prog fence but still appear there with reviews
and info. Maybe MP requested postponing discussion until after the release?

I believe they have a comprehensive process with regard to adding bands to ProgArchives.  Certain information must be submitted about the band and the music is reviewed to make sure it's progressive enough to be included on the website, if I recall correctly.  I could be wrong, but that's my understanding from reading up on their website in the past. 

I was able to find an old link detailing the requirements to add a band to ProgArchives: https://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=11993
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: emtee on October 16, 2017, 11:19:32 AM
Interesting. Seeing as how many people there know about MP and DS and all things prog I would have thought they would
have been set up months ago but maybe it was deemed by the chair of that committee that they didn't meet the criteria.

Thanks Mebert. I'll keep my eyes open over there and see if anything changes. I was looking for reviews which seem
far and few between with only a couple weeks left until release.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: MirrorMask on October 16, 2017, 11:31:34 AM
Derek's Twitter: "There will NOT be a novel adaptation of "Psychotic Symphony", but we will have SOCKS OF APOLLO available soon!"

Criiiiiinge... why of all things are they marketing socks?

He's obviously trying to target the "JR has no feel, TA sucks balls, DT is crap without MP" crowd. In that market he may be very successful.
Many fans did love the direction DT was going in with MP, with the heavier metal-y songs. This album seems to be an answer to that. So if you think about it like that, the jabs at DT do make more sense even if I think they're unprofessional.

I agree with this, I totally understand the desire to cater to disgrunted DT fans, but there are better ways to do that. Also because it's not black and white, I absolutely love The Astonishing and don't miss MP in DT, but I don't see why I should not like also Psychotic Symphony. If I'll like it, I'll like it, just like people who don't like The Astonishing may not even like this new album.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Fritzinger on October 16, 2017, 11:36:44 AM
Haken sell all kinds of weird merch too, normally as a limited run so that people want to buy them before they run out. Seems to be quite a good money maker.

Yeah, at the show I went to they were selling Haken coffee...wtf!!  :D

Been getting the facebook ad for the Haken Joggers  :lol  Whatever works.

My girlfriend asked for my pants size in the S-M-L-XL measurements the other day, and wouldn't say why.  I think she will surprise me with a pair of those.. and I can't wait! Actually I love that kind of merch, it's way more creative than just a black shirt with an album cover on it.
On the other hand: those socks... nope thanks, but that is just because of my personal taste.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: mikeyd23 on October 16, 2017, 11:42:11 AM
Derek's Twitter: "There will NOT be a novel adaptation of "Psychotic Symphony", but we will have SOCKS OF APOLLO available soon!"

Criiiiiinge... why of all things are they marketing socks?

He's obviously trying to target the "JR has no feel, TA sucks balls, DT is crap without MP" crowd. In that market he may be very successful.
Many fans did love the direction DT was going in with MP, with the heavier metal-y songs. This album seems to be an answer to that. So if you think about it like that, the jabs at DT do make more sense even if I think they're unprofessional.

I agree with this, I totally understand the desire to cater to disgrunted DT fans, but there are better ways to do that. Also because it's not black and white, I absolutely love The Astonishing and don't miss MP in DT, but I don't see why I should not like also Psychotic Symphony. If I'll like it, I'll like it, just like people who don't like The Astonishing may not even like this new album.

Like I've said all along, it doesn't make good sense the way they are approaching all this. They would have pulled in the sub-set of DT fans that want MP back without trashing DT and maybe in the process wouldn't have turned off all the other DT fans they have by acting this way.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Skeever on October 16, 2017, 11:56:25 AM
Y'know, I think there's a point to be made about the peripherals that came with The Astonishing. Some were cool ideas, but just came too late (such as the novel), and others were simply poorly executed, like the model NOMAC or the web game. But I don't think there was anything wrong with the idea of The Astonishing's extras, and, at the very least, you can say that The Astonishing was interesting enough to support extras, whereas this Sons of Apollo album sounds like it'll barely be interesting enough to justify its own existence.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: gmillerdrake on October 16, 2017, 12:20:04 PM
Like I've said all along, it doesn't make good sense the way they are approaching all this. They would have pulled in the sub-set of DT fans that want MP back without trashing DT and maybe in the process wouldn't have turned off all the other DT fans they have by acting this way.

I'm not a 'want MP back in DT' guy but nonetheless I was pumped about this collaboration until Derek and MP began the trash talk. Started with the 'new kings of prog' proclamation and hasn't ended since.....I'm not saying I won't give it a listen, I will because I like MP's drumming....but, this will have to be the end all be all of albums and musical output for me to consistently listen to it. My hunch is that this statement will be common:

That rhythm part reminds of insert DT or other countless other Band's Name

and while I'm sure there will be some cool moments that won't warrant me 1.) spending $$ to go to a show and 2.) tempt me to add them to my regular rotation. I hope I'm wrong and it's just a monster of an album and music worthy of Royalty as they've insisted they are....but....per the reviews of people who have heard it my expectations could be classified as 'low'. Would love to be surprised though....
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: devieira73 on October 16, 2017, 12:42:45 PM
Lost in Oblivion: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YyPQjVUVq4s
That rhythm part reminds of DT's Let Me Breathe.
Just to clarify, I wrote this with the intention to do a comparision in a good way. It wasn't my intention to say that it's a blatant copy or something like that.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Ben_Jamin on October 16, 2017, 12:44:17 PM
Derek's Twitter: "There will NOT be a novel adaptation of "Psychotic Symphony", but we will have SOCKS OF APOLLO available soon!"

Criiiiiinge... why of all things are they marketing socks?

Well duh, because Psychotic Symphony doesn't have a story.

But the socks, now I want NOMAC socks.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: AngelBack on October 16, 2017, 01:26:48 PM
Lost in Oblivion: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YyPQjVUVq4s
That rhythm part reminds of DT's Let Me Breathe.
Just to clarify, I wrote this with the intention to do a comparision in a good way. It wasn't my intention to say that it's a blatant copy or something like that.

That was worth watching for Derek's fart at 1:58,  :lol
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: pcs90 on October 16, 2017, 01:31:54 PM
Lost in Oblivion: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YyPQjVUVq4s
That rhythm part reminds of DT's Let Me Breathe.
Just to clarify, I wrote this with the intention to do a comparision in a good way. It wasn't my intention to say that it's a blatant copy or something like that.

That was worth watching for Derek's fart at 1:58,  :lol
hahaha! Sounds like he did it twice, once around 50 seconds in.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Skeever on October 16, 2017, 01:46:52 PM
Nothing good has ever come out of MP saying something "sounds like Meshuggah"
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: devieira73 on October 16, 2017, 01:55:53 PM
But, but it was like RUSHuggah ;D
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Mebert78 on October 16, 2017, 01:57:54 PM
That was worth watching for Derek's fart at 1:58,  :lol

HA!!!!  Nice catch!  :rollin
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: SwedishGoose on October 16, 2017, 01:59:49 PM
Nothing good has ever come out of MP saying something "sounds like Meshuggah"

Well the Meshuggah riff that broke the PA during The Dance of Eternity at Progressive Nation certainly made it a very memorable night.... and shows why MP is highly regarded as an entertainer...

https://youtu.be/n3lkERYDH7M
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on October 16, 2017, 02:10:16 PM
That was worth watching for Derek's fart at 1:58,  :lol

HA!!!!  Nice catch!  :rollin

 :lol I noticed that too, but just kind of overlooked it thinking it wasnt what I thought it was

Y'know, I think there's a point to be made about the peripherals that came with The Astonishing. Some were cool ideas, but just came too late (such as the novel), and others were simply poorly executed, like the model NOMAC or the web game. But I don't think there was anything wrong with the idea of The Astonishing's extras, and, at the very least, you can say that The Astonishing was interesting enough to support extras, whereas this Sons of Apollo album sounds like it'll barely be interesting enough to justify its own existence.

I think part of the reasoning (besides the timeline like you said) the peripherals with TA seem too much is because the album wasn't overall well received.  Like if the album was a huge success, then I can see why the band would want to continue promoting it through novels, video games, and the like.  But since the fan base is pretty split about the album, it does seem a bit much to continue pushing it, especially when so much time has passed since the release.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Ben_Jamin on October 16, 2017, 02:20:56 PM
That was worth watching for Derek's fart at 1:58,  :lol

HA!!!!  Nice catch!  :rollin

 :lol I noticed that too, but just kind of overlooked it thinking it wasnt what I thought it was

Y'know, I think there's a point to be made about the peripherals that came with The Astonishing. Some were cool ideas, but just came too late (such as the novel), and others were simply poorly executed, like the model NOMAC or the web game. But I don't think there was anything wrong with the idea of The Astonishing's extras, and, at the very least, you can say that The Astonishing was interesting enough to support extras, whereas this Sons of Apollo album sounds like it'll barely be interesting enough to justify its own existence.

I think part of the reasoning (besides the timeline like you said) the peripherals with TA seem too much is because the album wasn't overall well received.  Like if the album was a huge success, then I can see why the band would want to continue promoting it through novels, video games, and the like.  But since the fan base is pretty split about the album, it does seem a bit much to continue pushing it, especially when so much time has passed since the release.


I'm actually glad JP decided to do the book. Plus, it takes time to find the right author, the author needs time to write the book, publishing and printing. So I can see that reasoning. I don't know about the game though.

But people were also complaining about no War and bloodshed in the album story, they're getting it in the book. The NOMACS killed Evangeline with their horrible sound they use to control the people outside of TGNE.


Also, its finally happened. People are excited about a band members fart.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: The Walrus on October 16, 2017, 02:22:11 PM
Not sure why people think releasing a book is too much... for a concept album... that tells a story... with its own characters and world... they're not releasing a book based on Images & Words
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Elite on October 16, 2017, 02:25:23 PM
well, it's kind of pretentious, right?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: MirrorMask on October 16, 2017, 02:29:39 PM
they're not releasing a book based on Images & Words

Synopsis: a guy has Hamlet-like conflicts with his family, heightened by the loss of his dear father. He tries to start a band with the difficulties that comes with it, and has spacey and trippy thoughts about being surrounded by the light under a glass moon, and eventually gets into a love affair in early May with a girl that gets a chapter for herself when she goes to sleep, and in the end they realize that love is the most important thing but they're scared to get AIDS.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: mikeyd23 on October 16, 2017, 02:33:57 PM
well, it's kind of pretentious, right?

I think that's a leap. John thought it would be good expand the story since there was a lot that wasn't unpacked in the lyrics, he found an author, it's being written. Doesn't necessarily make it pretentious.

they're not releasing a book based on Images & Words

Synopsis: a guy has Hamlet-like conflicts with his family, heightened by the loss of his dear father. He tries to start a band with the difficulties that comes with it, and has spacey and trippy thoughts about being surrounded by the light under a glass moon, and eventually gets into a love affair in early May with a girl that gets a chapter for herself when she goes to sleep, and in the end they realize that love is the most important thing but they're scared to get AIDS.

 :lol  :tup
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: The Walrus on October 16, 2017, 02:54:05 PM
they're not releasing a book based on Images & Words

Synopsis: a guy has Hamlet-like conflicts with his family, heightened by the loss of his dear father. He tries to start a band with the difficulties that comes with it, and has spacey and trippy thoughts about being surrounded by the light under a glass moon, and eventually gets into a love affair in early May with a girl that gets a chapter for herself when she goes to sleep, and in the end they realize that love is the most important thing but they're scared to get AIDS.

 :lol :lol 8/10 - no dancing turtles?!
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: twosuitsluke on October 16, 2017, 02:57:17 PM
This is the only time I've had the urge to post in this thread and here it is....



















I also want to get the Haken joggers :hat
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Fritzinger on October 17, 2017, 01:16:24 AM
Mike Portnoy about Akerfeldt:

Quote
Mike Portnoy: “I love Mikael dearly. He and I are kindred spirits. First of all, I love the music he makes. You won’t get a bigger Opeth fan than me. I love everything they’ve done, from the most brutal music to the most prog epics. You put it together and you get ‘bru-tiful music.’ As a fan, it moves me so much.

But as a friend and as a person, we’re both music enthusiasts and historians and record collectors. We get together and we can just talk music and rock’n’roll trivia and history together – I love and respect and admire him so much.

He is the one person that I have yet to work with. We’ve toured together, and I’ve taken Opeth out when I was in Dream Theater, and he and I constantly flirt with the idea of doing something together. We’ve been talking about it for 10 or 15 years now. We’re just waiting for the right moment, for the right vehicle.

It’s the one collaboration that’s still eluded me and I’m still patiently waiting for. I would do it tomorrow – Mike knows that. I think he’s a bit more hesitant. I’m obviously very good juggling 87 bands. I think he’s a little more, ‘Can I do this? Is the time right? What will it be?’ I keep trying to nudge him: ‘Mike, dude, whatever it is it’ll be great – let’s just fucking get in a room and play together.’”

I can see him do a project with him and totally forgetting that Sons Of Apollo was going to be his new full time band. Also, Mikael is not the only guy he still wants to do a project with, I presume.
At the same time I thought: Why didn't he invite Mikael for SoA? He is a great singer, a killer second guitarist AND he has music composition and writing chops!
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Elite on October 17, 2017, 01:50:25 AM
Because Åkerfeldt likely has no interest whatsoever in being in a prog-metal band.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Kwyjibo on October 17, 2017, 02:02:36 AM
I'm not sure if a collaboration really would be that great. MA and MP are going in completely different musical directions. Could be interesting or could be leading nowhere.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ReaperKK on October 17, 2017, 05:01:03 AM
Not that I think this collaboration will ever happen but I'm curious what a band with Steven Wilson, MP and MA would be.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ganpondorodf on October 17, 2017, 05:04:25 AM
Because Åkerfeldt likely has no interest whatsoever in being in a prog-metal band.

Yep. I don't think Akerfeldt and MP really have much crossover in terms of musical interests. Akerfeldt and Steven Wilson both have very broad interests but MP basically likes rock music, he doesn't really have broad tastes
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: faizoff on October 17, 2017, 06:19:07 AM
MP does listen to different types of music, he was into more old school hip hop and rap, I think these days he's settled into the rock spectrum. MA's music interests these days don't align much with MP's by the looks of it but they could still do something, I think it would be great to see what that backdrop what music gets produced.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: King Postwhore on October 17, 2017, 06:22:25 AM
I'm not sure if a collaboration really would be that great. MA and MP are going in completely different musical directions. Could be interesting or could be leading nowhere.

I think when you have different directions with 2 people that want to work together something beautiful comes out of that.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Podaar on October 17, 2017, 06:35:06 AM
I think when you have different directions with 2 people that want to work together something beautiful comes out of that.

But is it two people? I've heard Portnoy mussings about collaborating with MA for years, yet I can't think of a single time Michael has mentioned it. It could be that Akerfeldt is just more private and doesn't share this kind of stuff, but I suspect the hero worship is a bit one sided.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: King Postwhore on October 17, 2017, 06:40:08 AM
And that may be true.  Steven Wilson before In Absentia didn't play the "heavy" side of PT.  Akerfeldt didn't go without the growls until he worked with Wilson.  two different musical sides of the track yet both meshed very well together and it expanded their music.

It's not like Mike doesn't play multiple style of Prog.  I do agree through that I've never read Akerfeldt talk about working with MP.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: kaos2900 on October 17, 2017, 06:41:24 AM
I think when you have different directions with 2 people that want to work together something beautiful comes out of that.

But is it two people? I've heard Portnoy mussings about collaborating with MA for years, yet I can't think of a single time Michael has mentioned it. It could be that Akerfeldt is just more private and doesn't share this kind of stuff, but I suspect the hero worship is a bit one sided.

Yeah, I can see that. MA is probably friendly with MP but I think if those two ever tried to work with each other it would be a disaster. I don't think their personalities would mesh well.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Kwyjibo on October 17, 2017, 07:30:13 AM
I'm not sure if a collaboration really would be that great. MA and MP are going in completely different musical directions. Could be interesting or could be leading nowhere.

I think when you have different directions with 2 people that want to work together something beautiful comes out of that.

I think something beautiful CAN come out of it, but it could also be that the result is a half-baked mesh-up.

And I get the feeling, as others have said, it's more MP that wants to collaborate, not necessarily MA. Sometimes I think that MP throws his wishes for musical collaboration out there without there being any substance to it. It's more like "I would like too/wouldn't it be cool" than "we've talked about it and it's only a matter of time".
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Skeever on October 17, 2017, 09:07:02 AM
I highly doubt the MP style of writing appeals to MA.

Not the biggest Opeth fan, but MA seems like the kind of guy who sits down at a keyboard or in a DAW and slaves over things for hours and hours at a time, over several weeks if not months/years. The MP style of doing an album seems to be more like "get everyone in the studio for two weeks, write and record whatever comes out as quickly as possible, send the files off to production, and never think about it again until the album is 'finished' and it's time for tour". I highly doubt MA is into that kind of thing. 

There's a good reason why every post-DT MP album has either been 1.) formulaic rock or 2.) largely composed separately by Neal Morse. Only so much you can do when you rush everything.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Samsara on October 17, 2017, 09:10:17 AM
I've been able to hold out and not listen to really anything on the SOA record except for brief snippets of the two songs that debuted first. I'm pretty excited to hear the whole thing on Friday. Anyone else been holding out?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Stadler on October 17, 2017, 09:16:36 AM
Me.  I hate snippets. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: TAC on October 17, 2017, 09:20:48 AM
I can't tell you how much the public comments from Derek and Mike have soured me on this. Seriously.

That said, I still can't see my self not getting this. Trying to decide to buy the Amazon mp3 or the CD. It's a $4 difference.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: MirrorMask on October 17, 2017, 09:38:27 AM
I've been able to hold out and not listen to really anything on the SOA record except for brief snippets of the two songs that debuted first. I'm pretty excited to hear the whole thing on Friday. Anyone else been holding out?

Nope, usually I can hold out when I want (I didn't hear a single note or snippet from The Astonishing) but I've heard the two songs and also the snippets in the commentaries... God of the Sun sounds promising!
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: mikeyd23 on October 17, 2017, 09:40:59 AM
I listened to the two singles, but nothing else. Probably won't until the album is released, then I'll check it out on Spotify. Unless it totally blows me away, I don't intend to purchase it based off of what I've heard (and frankly what I've seen - read social media stuff) thus far.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Anxiety35 on October 17, 2017, 10:20:34 AM
If they're doing SOA socks, might as well go full on with SOA rompers.  :biggrin:

Here are my current thoughts...

As far as MP doing a project with (insert musician name here), it may seem good in theory. I used to think that it was cool for members of bands to collaborate with members from other bands in a side project but now it happens a lot and I don't think we get great music from it. Maybe one or two worthwhile tracks on a release. Is it because my expectations are too high? Maybe. The only side project I think knocks it out of the park as far as great songs from start to finish is Liquid Tension Experiment - both releases.

Hopefully SOA will be MP's full time landing spot post DT. I never thought The Winery Dogs would be the full time band. Neal Morse is awesome, but that's not MP's big destination either. Flying Colors and Transatlantic, as awesome as they are, have too many moving parts (members being in other full time gigs).

I do see SOA changing members with MP and Derek being the core two for the long haul if the band lasts. Billy Sheehan can't keep grinding out tours at 64 years of age and older, so I think he will be the first to bow out after a while. I think Soto and Bumblefoot have potential to last longer.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ErHaO on October 17, 2017, 10:30:08 AM
Now that more and more reviews are trinkling in, I am getting more excited. Even the "lesser" scores, around the 7 (thus far), give a description that suits my tastes. Seems like a very solid debut effort and I like both singles.

While Mike and especially Derek have been annoying, they didn't cross the line to the point where I won't buy their material. Just to the point where I won't go the extra mile to give them exposure if I end up really liking the album. It is still so mild compared to many pop artists or especially artists in film and theatre.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Podaar on October 17, 2017, 10:53:35 AM
Yeah, I'm starting to really look forward to hearing the album too... but mostly to see what Bumblefoot brings to the project. His contributions to the first two songs are pretty damned cool.  :hat
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: The Walrus on October 17, 2017, 10:56:19 AM
Let me sum up Bumblefoot's contributions to the album:

1. *riffs gurgling alongside Billy Bass*
2. *meedly weedly Bumbleshred*
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Herrick on October 17, 2017, 11:15:53 AM
Hopefully SOA will be MP's full time landing spot post DT. I never thought The Winery Dogs would be the full time band. Neal Morse is awesome, but that's not MP's big destination either. Flying Colors and Transatlantic, as awesome as they are, have too many moving parts (members being in other full time gigs).

I do see SOA changing members with MP and Derek being the core two for the long haul if the band lasts. Billy Sheehan can't keep grinding out tours at 64 years of age and older, so I think he will be the first to bow out after a while. I think Soto and Bumblefoot have potential to last longer.

Agreed but I really thought The Winery Dogs was going to be a full time band. I wasn't into them anyway so it wasn't a big deal to me when they called it quits or took a hiatus or whatever.

Why isn't The Neal Morse Band Portnoy's main band at this point?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Podaar on October 17, 2017, 11:18:08 AM
Let me sum up Bumblefoot's contributions to the album:

1. *riffs gurgling alongside Billy Bass*
2. *meedly weedly Bumbleshred*

Yes, but before he gets to the 'meedly weedly' (as you so derisively put it) there is some original style there, or so it seems to me. Personally, I'm pretty fond of shred guitar playing and see nothing wrong with enjoying it. Hopefully it will all be applied tastefully and appropriate to the song at hand. That's part of why I'm looking forward to hearing it.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: The Walrus on October 17, 2017, 11:33:35 AM
Let me sum up Bumblefoot's contributions to the album:

1. *riffs gurgling alongside Billy Bass*
2. *meedly weedly Bumbleshred*

Yes, but before he gets to the 'meedly weedly' (as you so derisively put it) there is some original style there, or so it seems to me. Personally, I'm pretty fond of shred guitar playing and see nothing wrong with enjoying it. Hopefully it will all be applied tastefully and appropriate to the song at hand. That's part of why I'm looking forward to hearing it.

Easy, my dude. I have plenty of shred guitar albums on my shelves. But when I think Bumblefoot, I think of what I call 'Bumbleshred' which is Bumblefoot's signature sound... plus shredding. You can hear it all over Chinese Democracy, and it's on this album, too. And when he's not doing that, his riffs blend in with the bass. Nothing really derisive about it...
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Schurftkut on October 17, 2017, 11:37:38 AM
on a more positive note......:  https://magazine.100percentrock.com/interviews/201710/235153
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: MirrorMask on October 17, 2017, 11:58:10 AM
on a more positive note......:  https://magazine.100percentrock.com/interviews/201710/235153

Nice interview! they should just let JSS doing all the promotion  :lol
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: AngelBack on October 17, 2017, 12:45:22 PM
on a more positive note......:  https://magazine.100percentrock.com/interviews/201710/235153

Nice interview! they should just let JSS doing all the promotion  :lol

You know that is a great point.  I was totally unfamiliar with JSS but I like what I see in the interviews so far as far as his personality goes.  I could hang with him.  MP I'm kinda used to as I have been a fan since the 90's and Derek, well I'm just not warming to him at all.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: devieira73 on October 17, 2017, 01:07:57 PM
JSS even talk about the "rock'n"roll pedigree" of the band and other a bit controversial themes (at least for us ;D), but in a total classy way :tup
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: MirrorMask on October 17, 2017, 01:10:26 PM
Indeed, I'm starting to warming up to him. In the interviews and from comments of people here he looks very nice and humble, and his voice is very good. Out of curiosity I listened on YouTube to a solo song from him, I may have picked wrong but it felt like it could have been the next Sons of Apollo song. I'll have to look better in his discography I guess, I always knew at the very least that he existed but never really followed his bands.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bosk1 on October 17, 2017, 01:11:38 PM
Mike and Derek should take note.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: gmillerdrake on October 17, 2017, 01:21:33 PM
JSS even talk about the "rock'n"roll pedigree" of the band and other a bit controversial themes (at least for us ;D), but in a total classy way :tup

Yep, very tactful and classy and HUMBLE. In fact, his approach in this interview shaved off a layer of the hardened heart I had been forming towards the album due to the antics and comments of MP and DS

Mike and Derek should take note.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Schurftkut on October 17, 2017, 01:26:01 PM
Mike and Derek should take note.

no further comments
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Schurftkut on October 17, 2017, 01:27:17 PM
well maybe they should look to Dio as well, he always stayed a sweet human being. And he had rock/metal pedigree or whatever they call it nowadays..
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: rumborak on October 17, 2017, 01:39:27 PM
(https://herepup.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/12/Pedigree-Dog-Food-Reviews.jpg)
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Lethean on October 17, 2017, 01:53:34 PM
I think I might simply buy JSS' solo album just because. He seems like a cool guy and this way I can still support him.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Orbert on October 17, 2017, 02:12:32 PM
"I don't get it.  Since our album dropped, Jeff's and Bumblefoot's solo albums have spiked, Mr. Big is up, even Falling Into Infinity got a boost, but no one's buying Psychotic Symphony.  And it's the best damned album in the past 40 years!"
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: SwedishGoose on October 17, 2017, 02:21:55 PM
"I don't get it.  Since our album dropped, Jeff's and Bumblefoot's solo albums have spiked, Mr. Big is up, even Falling Into Infinity got a boost, but no one's buying Psychotic Symphony.  And it's the best damned album in the past 40 years!"

Is this a fake qoute or where did you see it?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Orbert on October 17, 2017, 02:27:21 PM
I went into the future a few weeks to see what's Mike's reaction will be to the album sales, and this was a quote I found on Blabbermouth.  I then came back to this time frame to post it.  At least I think it's this time frame.  With infinite possibilities, it's hard to tell sometimes.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bill1971 on October 17, 2017, 02:59:52 PM
I went into the future a few weeks to see what's Mike's reaction will be to the album sales, and this was a quote I found on Blabbermouth.  I then came back to this time frame to post it.  At least I think it's this time frame.  With infinite possibilities, it's hard to tell sometimes.

Well be careful  next time, because for some reason my car is now red.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Orbert on October 17, 2017, 03:08:18 PM
Sorry about that.  On the other hand, my wife is much hotter now and I drive a Ferrari, so I call it a win.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Anxiety35 on October 17, 2017, 03:19:32 PM
Hopefully SOA will be MP's full time landing spot post DT. I never thought The Winery Dogs would be the full time band. Neal Morse is awesome, but that's not MP's big destination either. Flying Colors and Transatlantic, as awesome as they are, have too many moving parts (members being in other full time gigs).

I do see SOA changing members with MP and Derek being the core two for the long haul if the band lasts. Billy Sheehan can't keep grinding out tours at 64 years of age and older, so I think he will be the first to bow out after a while. I think Soto and Bumblefoot have potential to last longer.

Agreed but I really thought The Winery Dogs was going to be a full time band. I wasn't into them anyway so it wasn't a big deal to me when they called it quits or took a hiatus or whatever.

Why isn't The Neal Morse Band Portnoy's main band at this point?

Neal is the main songwriter, arranger, lyricist, sets vision, and so forth. It's Neal's band, not Mike's. MP simply provides his services in the drum department. I could be wrong, but I think MP longs for and thrives most in a leadership role instead of a support role.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Madman Shepherd on October 17, 2017, 03:57:49 PM
well maybe they should look to Dio as well, he always stayed a sweet human being. And he had rock/metal pedigree or whatever they call it nowadays..

I love Dio.  One of my all time favorites.  I still am in awe I got to meet him but I don't know if I'd use him as an example.  He had two sides.  There was the cool humble side he showed to his fans and some of his band and then there was the dark vindictive side.  Some of it may have been warranted.  I don't know enough details but if you read interviews with some of his past band members they elude to it.

Sorry to get off topic.  But yeah, Dio fucking rules.  Any band, any era...one of the all time greats.   
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Ben_Jamin on October 17, 2017, 04:02:05 PM
Everybody has a good and bad side. It just depends on when you catch them. They could have a bad day and don't feel like talking to anyone. Just like you could catch them on their brightest day and they're joyous like a giddy schoolgirl.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: TAC on October 17, 2017, 04:02:21 PM
I love Dio.  One of my all time favorites.  I still am in awe I got to meet him but I don't know if I'd use him as an example.  He had two sides.  There was the cool humble side he showed to his fans and some of his band and then there was the dark vindictive side.  Some of it may have been warranted.  I don't know enough details but if you read interviews with some of his past band members they elude to it.

There's always this classic.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zOwZBo8FQvo
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bill1971 on October 17, 2017, 04:10:52 PM
Sorry about that.  On the other hand, my wife is much hotter now and I drive a Ferrari, so I call it a win.

Eye alsso kompleetly lostt te abbiidy 2 spel
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Madman Shepherd on October 17, 2017, 04:24:59 PM
Everybody has a good and bad side. It just depends on when you catch them. They could have a bad day and don't feel like talking to anyone. Just like you could catch them on their brightest day and they're joyous like a giddy schoolgirl.

This was more of a long term thing between some of his bandmates.  Not just a bad day.   Not even talking about Vivian Campbell who I'm glad finally came to terms with his time in Dio.  He has been much more tactful talking about it.  But there were quite a few burnt bridges.

When it came to the fans though, Dio was always on his game.  Signing autographs, taking pictures, etc.  Near impossible to find him every being a jerk to a fan. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ? on October 17, 2017, 04:28:36 PM
I highly doubt the MP style of writing appeals to MA.

Not the biggest Opeth fan, but MA seems like the kind of guy who sits down at a keyboard or in a DAW and slaves over things for hours and hours at a time, over several weeks if not months/years. The MP style of doing an album seems to be more like "get everyone in the studio for two weeks, write and record whatever comes out as quickly as possible, send the files off to production, and never think about it again until the album is 'finished' and it's time for tour". I highly doubt MA is into that kind of thing. 

There's a good reason why every post-DT MP album has either been 1.) formulaic rock or 2.) largely composed separately by Neal Morse. Only so much you can do when you rush everything.
Yeah, I think Mikael has said he's not a jamming kind of guy, and he seems pretty reluctant about doing side projects nowadays anyway. I also remember reading that MP asked Jim Matheos to play on the first Transatlantic album, but Jim wasn't into the idea of the "let's go into the studio and start jamming until we have 70 mins of music" method, so that style of writing is definitely not for everyone.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Hourglass Prison on October 17, 2017, 04:30:29 PM
I love Dio.  One of my all time favorites.  I still am in awe I got to meet him but I don't know if I'd use him as an example.  He had two sides.  There was the cool humble side he showed to his fans and some of his band and then there was the dark vindictive side.  Some of it may have been warranted.  I don't know enough details but if you read interviews with some of his past band members they elude to it.

There's always this classic.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zOwZBo8FQvo

Woooowww. Lol I’ve never heard Dio talk like that before.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: goo-goo on October 17, 2017, 04:31:44 PM
I also remember reading that MP asked Jim Matheos to play on the first Transatlantic album, but Jim wasn't into the idea of the "let's go into the studio and start jamming until we have 70 mins of music" method, so that style of writing is definitely not for everyone.

And this where I struggled a bit with DT post SFAM/Six Degrees. I feel like with MP leaving, JP started demoing a bit more at home rather than writing and recording everything in the studio. I prefer the demoing way.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Lethean on October 17, 2017, 07:34:15 PM
Audio interview with JSS:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=78i8c97s_W0

I found interesting to hear him talking about how he expected this to be more like PSMS and was excited to try to sing some prog, even though he wasn't sure he would be able to deliver.  Then it turned into "something else" and while he doesn't say anything negative at all, I got the feeling that maybe he'd be hoping it would be a little more progressive than it turned out to be.

I'd like to hear the vocal melodies that he was trying to come up with for the more straight forward tracks (from the written interview Schurftkut posted).  It might be that he was trying to hard to make it complex, but on the other hand, maybe it would have made Coming Home more interesting.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Ben_Jamin on October 17, 2017, 07:51:02 PM
Thats great that he was down for the challenge.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Fritzinger on October 18, 2017, 03:29:23 AM
I've been able to hold out and not listen to really anything on the SOA record except for brief snippets of the two songs that debuted first. I'm pretty excited to hear the whole thing on Friday. Anyone else been holding out?

Havent listened to a single note yet. Cant wait.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bill1971 on October 18, 2017, 08:33:24 AM
I highly doubt the MP style of writing appeals to MA.

Not the biggest Opeth fan, but MA seems like the kind of guy who sits down at a keyboard or in a DAW and slaves over things for hours and hours at a time, over several weeks if not months/years. The MP style of doing an album seems to be more like "get everyone in the studio for two weeks, write and record whatever comes out as quickly as possible, send the files off to production, and never think about it again until the album is 'finished' and it's time for tour". I highly doubt MA is into that kind of thing. 

There's a good reason why every post-DT MP album has either been 1.) formulaic rock or 2.) largely composed separately by Neal Morse. Only so much you can do when you rush everything.
Yeah, I think Mikael has said he's not a jamming kind of guy, and he seems pretty reluctant about doing side projects nowadays anyway. I also remember reading that MP asked Jim Matheos to play on the first Transatlantic album, but Jim wasn't into the idea of the "let's go into the studio and start jamming until we have 70 mins of music" method, so that style of writing is definitely not for everyone.

I sometimes get the impression that MP just does some  of the bands and playing with other people as a checklist of sorts to say he did it. Hence him being proud of being in as he says 87 bands. It turns into that artist or artist playing their style and MP just playing drums over it  more than a collaboration.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: faizoff on October 18, 2017, 09:04:59 AM
I don't see it that way, while one or two projects may have that line of thought to it, I think a guy like him just wants to be busy all the time and release his musical energy out in one form or the other. He might find that being in several bands playing different styles and having different levels of input in each appeals to him at some level. I think that's just how he's wired. After all the man is a musical encyclopedia when it comes to drum fills and remembering songs of almost all the music he listens to.

I'm sure the self-adulation that comes along with it is rewarding to some degree, but mostly I always feel he just enjoys doing it rather than having a checklist of 'hey I need to be in a million bands, and that's great so everyone look at me'. I think it mostly comes out of sincerity.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: gzarruk on October 18, 2017, 09:57:11 AM
I don't see it that way, while one or two projects may have that line of thought to it, I think a guy like him just wants to be busy all the time and release his musical energy out in one form or the other. He might find that being in several bands playing different styles and having different levels of input in each appeals to him at some level. I think that's just how he's wired. After all the man is a musical encyclopedia when it comes to drum fills and remembering songs of almost all the music he listens to.

Yet, he decides to play the same old ones over and over again  :lol
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: faizoff on October 18, 2017, 10:05:14 AM
I wasn't referring to just his music, I was talking about all the music he listens to. He practically memorizes all the drum parts to any song he's ever listened to.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Elite on October 18, 2017, 10:05:41 AM
I wasn't referring to just his music, I was talking about all the music he listens to. He practically memorizes all the drum parts to any song he's ever listened to.

How do you know this? Seems like a bold statement.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bill1971 on October 18, 2017, 10:10:09 AM
I don't see it that way, while one or two projects may have that line of thought to it, I think a guy like him just wants to be busy all the time and release his musical energy out in one form or the other. He might find that being in several bands playing different styles and having different levels of input in each appeals to him at some level. I think that's just how he's wired. After all the man is a musical encyclopedia when it comes to drum fills and remembering songs of almost all the music he listens to.

I'm sure the self-adulation that comes along with it is rewarding to some degree, but mostly I always feel he just enjoys doing it rather than having a checklist of 'hey I need to be in a million bands, and that's great so everyone look at me'. I think it mostly comes out of sincerity.

You may be right, I can't read his mind. It just seems like he almost always brings up how many bands and projects he is in so to me it seems like a point of being proud of that. Not really a bad thing just seems to be his emphasis.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: The Walrus on October 18, 2017, 10:41:14 AM
Wasn't there a vid last year or a couple years ago where they played drum fills or beats and Mike guessed most of them almost immediately? The man does know music to an incredible degree.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: faizoff on October 18, 2017, 10:48:25 AM
I wasn't referring to just his music, I was talking about all the music he listens to. He practically memorizes all the drum parts to any song he's ever listened to.

How do you know this? Seems like a bold statement.

While right now I don't have a particular article or video clip, I think it's the cumulation of all the things I've seen that knows it's true. On one of Eddie Trunk's radio show, Eddie asked 'how do you remember all of these drum parts?' and this was back when he was in DT and MP would casually fill in for several bands like Fates Warning, Spock's Beard or Overkill, etc..

The dude is a memory machine. I don't have concrete proof of this, it's just something many of his fans acknowledge.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: rumborak on October 18, 2017, 02:02:14 PM
I think that's also a bit of an Achilles heel for him. These commentaries of his always have a "yeah, this section is like Haken meets Meshuggah", "the love child of Deep Purple and Gentle Giant" etc. If this was all *after* the fact, i.e. entirely descriptive of a tune that came naturally, that wouldn't make a difference. But I think, just like the "inspiration sections" in DT, part of his directing of the music is to suggest a certain style upfront and the band then writes in that vein. As one of the reviews seems to suggest, Psychotic Symphony falls into that trap as well.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Stadler on October 18, 2017, 02:58:59 PM
I think that's also a bit of an Achilles heel for him. These commentaries of his always have a "yeah, this section is like Haken meets Meshuggah", "the love child of Deep Purple and Gentle Giant" etc. If this was all *after* the fact, i.e. entirely descriptive of a tune that came naturally, that wouldn't make a difference. But I think, just like the "inspiration sections" in DT, part of his directing of the music is to suggest a certain style upfront and the band then writes in that vein. As one of the reviews seems to suggest, Psychotic Symphony falls into that trap as well.


That's the problem, in my eyes, with "87 bands".   When you're in your prog-metal band, you have to be in prog-metal mode.  When you're in your trad prog band, you have to be trad-prog mode.   

For me, and I've said this many times in the past, the best bands, and best music, has been at the crossraods of music, when you have a jazz drummer (Bruford) with a country guitar player (Howe), a rock bassist (Squire) and a classical keyboardist (Wakeman).    Classic Yes wouldn't be classic Yes if Wakeman was playing what he thought a prog keyboardist SHOULD be playing, etc. etc. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Madman Shepherd on October 18, 2017, 03:11:37 PM
I highly doubt the MP style of writing appeals to MA.

Not the biggest Opeth fan, but MA seems like the kind of guy who sits down at a keyboard or in a DAW and slaves over things for hours and hours at a time, over several weeks if not months/years. The MP style of doing an album seems to be more like "get everyone in the studio for two weeks, write and record whatever comes out as quickly as possible, send the files off to production, and never think about it again until the album is 'finished' and it's time for tour". I highly doubt MA is into that kind of thing. 

There's a good reason why every post-DT MP album has either been 1.) formulaic rock or 2.) largely composed separately by Neal Morse. Only so much you can do when you rush everything.
Yeah, I think Mikael has said he's not a jamming kind of guy, and he seems pretty reluctant about doing side projects nowadays anyway. I also remember reading that MP asked Jim Matheos to play on the first Transatlantic album, but Jim wasn't into the idea of the "let's go into the studio and start jamming until we have 70 mins of music" method, so that style of writing is definitely not for everyone.

I sometimes get the impression that MP just does some  of the bands and playing with other people as a checklist of sorts to say he did it. Hence him being proud of being in as he says 87 bands. It turns into that artist or artist playing their style and MP just playing drums over it  more than a collaboration.

I agree.  It made me think of an analogy (and I swear it has nothing to do with marriage). I love food and trying different restaurants.  One time I went to a restaurant that had a HUUUUUGE menu.  I mean, everything you can imagine.  It got me wondering how much care the chef was actually putting into this stuff or if he was just grabbing a recipe off the internet.  When I got my food, I have to say it was good.  I was satisfied.  And ya know what, I've never been back.  I haven't been tempted.  It didn't blow me away and if I want a specific type of food, I'll go to a restaurant that specializes in it.  If I am with a group of friends and they really want that restaurant, I guess I'll settle but I'll never go out of my way.

Soon my wife and I will celebrate our anniversary and we have reservations at a restaurant that has a one page menu.  Basically a handful of options and the food is amazing.  It's also expensive which is why we only eat there once a year but because they specialize in only a few things we know it will almost all be quality even a few choices might not be to our particular taste.  So we go out of our way that one night to drive out of town, we pay no attention to the prices, and we have a great night with quality food.  If the chef was throwing random things on the menu (now I want to create a sushi dish!  now I'm going to serve BBQ) or the chef was advertising in a tactless manner then we would pick some other place. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on October 18, 2017, 03:13:16 PM
One time I went to a restaurant that had a HUUUUUGE menu.  I mean, everything you can imagine.  It got me wondering how much care the chef was actually putting into this stuff or if he was just grabbing a recipe off the internet.  When I got my food, I have to say it was good.  I was satisfied.  And ya know what, I've never been back.  I haven't been tempted.  It didn't blow me away and if I want a specific type of food, I'll go to a restaurant that specializes in it.  If I am with a group of friends and they really want that restaurant, I guess I'll settle but I'll never go out of my way.

Was it a Cheesecake Factory?  That menu is like a book.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Madman Shepherd on October 18, 2017, 03:27:09 PM
One time I went to a restaurant that had a HUUUUUGE menu.  I mean, everything you can imagine.  It got me wondering how much care the chef was actually putting into this stuff or if he was just grabbing a recipe off the internet.  When I got my food, I have to say it was good.  I was satisfied.  And ya know what, I've never been back.  I haven't been tempted.  It didn't blow me away and if I want a specific type of food, I'll go to a restaurant that specializes in it.  If I am with a group of friends and they really want that restaurant, I guess I'll settle but I'll never go out of my way.

Was it a Cheesecake Factory?  That menu is like a book.

Holy shit dude.  I was going to keep it intentionally vague but yes, that was it.  Decent food but no desire to go back. I'll stick with restaurants that are a passion of one or two people. 

God, I'm hungry now. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bosk1 on October 18, 2017, 03:28:19 PM
:lol  I was thinking your post reminded me an awful lot of Cheesecake Factory as well. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on October 18, 2017, 03:42:48 PM
I ate at one last week so it was in my recent memory  :lol
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: King Postwhore on October 18, 2017, 03:44:18 PM
I remember thinking how the hell am I going to pick a cheesecake?  I want them all!
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: TAC on October 18, 2017, 03:46:26 PM
Cheesecake is nasty.

Unless of course we're talking:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cUpeTFY8jlc
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: The Walrus on October 18, 2017, 03:47:20 PM
Cheesecake is nasty.

Unless of course we're talking:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cUpeTFY8jlc

I make a mean cheesecake. Sour cream is the secret. In-freaking-credible.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: MirrorMask on October 18, 2017, 03:51:51 PM
From nasty discussions about tweets to the history of coolness of keyboard players to cheesecakes. If Psychotic Symphony is like this thread, with something for everyone and full of variety and unpredictability, it's gonna rock the charts  :lol :lol :lol
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Dave_Manchester on October 18, 2017, 03:58:14 PM
I highly doubt the MP style of writing appeals to MA.

I'm late to this discussion, but I agree that the desire to collaborate is probably on MP's part rather than MA's. Akerfeldt recently said he's taking a break from music to spend time with his family and will get around to recording the next Opeth album sometime in 2019. Plus, I don't mean any disrespect to Portnoy, but he is not a composer, so I don't know what the appeal would be for MA to spend his 'down time' working with him of all people. Between Storm Corrosion and the last 6 years of Opeth releases, MA has been exploring a style of music which doesn't seem to appeal to MP (I'm basing that only on the fact that none of those albums made his 'albums of the year' lists on his forum). I think that back in 2003 or so, a collaboration could have been very interesting, but now, not so much. Still, I'll be happy to one day be proven wrong.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: TAC on October 18, 2017, 04:48:02 PM
Cheesecake is nasty.

Unless of course we're talking:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cUpeTFY8jlc

I make a mean cheesecake. Sour cream is the secret. In-freaking-credible.

Sour cream is nasty too. :P
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Orbert on October 18, 2017, 04:51:30 PM
Keep it in the fridge, and be more careful about watching the sell-by date.



:neverusethis:
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Madman Shepherd on October 18, 2017, 05:30:20 PM
Cheesecake is nasty.

Unless of course we're talking:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cUpeTFY8jlc

I make a mean cheesecake. Sour cream is the secret. In-freaking-credible.

Sour cream is nasty too. :P

Well, I'm no sour cream fan but if done in moderation it can really add to a recipe.  Also it's worthless to know you make a mean cheesecake without actually making it for us. 

Maybe we could schedule a Psychotic Symphony listening party with Kattelox Katering (I named a potential company for you). Possibly invite Derek Sherinian just so we could hear him say witty things like "This is more cheesy than Jordan's last app" and leave him hanging as he goes for a high five. 

Whatta ya say guys?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: pcs90 on October 18, 2017, 05:34:12 PM
Sounds like a good plan to me!
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ytserush on October 18, 2017, 05:50:47 PM
I've been able to hold out and not listen to really anything on the SOA record except for brief snippets of the two songs that debuted first. I'm pretty excited to hear the whole thing on Friday. Anyone else been holding out?

I guess I am, but I'm not sure it rises to the level of "holding out" for me in this case.

 I held out for Robert Plant though and I'm glad I did. Another damn fine album from him in my opinion.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: King Postwhore on October 18, 2017, 05:54:20 PM
I need to get Plant's new album.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ytserush on October 18, 2017, 05:58:34 PM
I need to get Plant's new album.

I need to see his new band live, but I don't know yet how I'm going to pull that off.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: The Walrus on October 18, 2017, 06:39:29 PM
Cheesecake is nasty.

Unless of course we're talking:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cUpeTFY8jlc

I make a mean cheesecake. Sour cream is the secret. In-freaking-credible.

Sour cream is nasty too. :P

Well, I'm no sour cream fan but if done in moderation it can really add to a recipe.  Also it's worthless to know you make a mean cheesecake without actually making it for us. 

Maybe we could schedule a Psychotic Symphony listening party with Kattelox Katering (I named a potential company for you). Possibly invite Derek Sherinian just so we could hear him say witty things like "This is more cheesy than Jordan's last app" and leave him hanging as he goes for a high five. 

Whatta ya say guys?

Kattelox Katering... I think you're onto something. Cheesecake for everyone! Except Derek. Derek can have Chex Mix.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Madman Shepherd on October 18, 2017, 07:02:47 PM
Cheesecake is nasty.

Unless of course we're talking:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cUpeTFY8jlc

I make a mean cheesecake. Sour cream is the secret. In-freaking-credible.

Sour cream is nasty too. :P

Well, I'm no sour cream fan but if done in moderation it can really add to a recipe.  Also it's worthless to know you make a mean cheesecake without actually making it for us. 

Maybe we could schedule a Psychotic Symphony listening party with Kattelox Katering (I named a potential company for you). Possibly invite Derek Sherinian just so we could hear him say witty things like "This is more cheesy than Jordan's last app" and leave him hanging as he goes for a high five. 

Whatta ya say guys?

Kattelox Katering... I think you're onto something. Cheesecake for everyone! Except Derek. Derek can have Chex Mix.

Hahahaha :rollin of course then he'll just claim he never liked cheesecake and Chex mix has more swagger  :-\
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: King Postwhore on October 18, 2017, 07:21:14 PM
Chex mix crust for the cheesecake.  Derek wins again! :lol
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: KevShmev on October 18, 2017, 07:24:25 PM
We know Portnoy doesn't consume alcohol anymore, but given his bitterness towards DT, Derek's drink of choice at this listening party should be a Salty Dog. :biggrin:
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: As I Am on October 18, 2017, 09:36:15 PM
Received the SOA cd today  ;D and after 4 consecutive listens, I'm of the opinion that this is THE album of the year! I wouldn't call it prog rock, prog metal or hard rock, but I would definitely call it "Melodic Prog-Metal". From the INCREDIBLE opener "God of The Sun" throughout the album, there isn't one bad, or even mediocre  song. Strangely enough, the instrumental "Opus Maximus" is my least favorite on the cd (and I seriously question its placement at the end of the cd). It's high quality stuff, but I actually expected to be blown away which I wasn't. I think many of the jam parts of other songs are far more interesting.
Jeff Scott Soto & Bumblefoot just knock it out of the park, while MP, Derek and Billy shine as they always do. There are influences all through this cd. From Deep Purple to the melodic melody of The Winery Dogs, to the rock attack of Van Halen & Alter Bridge and of course the progressiveness of  Derek's solo albums and even Planet X. There is something for everyone of Psychotic Symphony. This is certainly not a Dream Theater clone at all (as it shouldn't be as there is already a Dream Theater giving us what we need in their style). If you can get past Derek's not so subtle shots at DT (I don't know where people get the idea that MP has knocked them at all in any of these SOA interviews), you will find a tremendous cd! 9.5/10
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Adami on October 18, 2017, 09:40:43 PM
How can you say there are no mediocre songs when two have already been released?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: KevShmev on October 18, 2017, 09:49:36 PM
How can you say there are no mediocre songs when two have already been released?

Excellent point.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: RodrigoAltaf on October 18, 2017, 10:11:35 PM
Received the SOA cd today  ;D and after 4 consecutive listens, I'm of the opinion that this is THE album of the year! I wouldn't call it prog rock, prog metal or hard rock, but I would definitely call it "Melodic Prog-Metal". From the INCREDIBLE opener "God of The Sun" throughout the album, there isn't one bad, or even mediocre  song. Strangely enough, the instrumental "Opus Maximus" is my least favorite on the cd (and I seriously question its placement at the end of the cd). It's high quality stuff, but I actually expected to be blown away which I wasn't. I think many of the jam parts of other songs are far more interesting.
Jeff Scott Soto & Bumblefoot just knock it out of the park, while MP, Derek and Billy shine as they always do. There are influences all through this cd. From Deep Purple to the melodic melody of The Winery Dogs, to the rock attack of Van Halen & Alter Bridge and of course the progressiveness of  Derek's solo albums and even Planet X. There is something for everyone of Psychotic Symphony. This is certainly not a Dream Theater clone at all (as it shouldn't be as there is already a Dream Theater giving us what we need in their style). If you can get past Derek's not so subtle shots at DT (I don't know where people get the idea that MP has knocked them at all in any of these SOA interviews), you will find a tremendous cd! 9.5/10

I'm glad someone else agrees with me!!!! I can't wait for the tour!!!
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: NoseofNicko on October 18, 2017, 10:16:55 PM
How can you say there are no mediocre songs when two have already been released?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Ben_Jamin on October 18, 2017, 10:42:37 PM
I let the music speak for itself. Regardless what anyone says. Most of the albums I like are ones that people say are the bands worst.

They should've just done those commentary videos from the start. That would've been the smart move.

So bring on the album.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: pcs90 on October 18, 2017, 10:44:14 PM
How can you say there are no mediocre songs when two have already been released?

In fact there are more than two!

The highlight of the album for me is Bumblefoot. There are a couple of very nice solos which have a good mix of emotion and speed. My favorite is definitely on "Alive." Does he compare to Petrucci's emotional solos? No, but there's some very nice playing and also some totally insane playing as well that is quite unique.

Overall though I find the album boring as a whole. Portnoy's playing the same fills as he has for the past 20 years, Derek's playing the same runs that he's been playing for 20 years, and many of the instrumental sections are just boring IMO. I do enjoy the use of the B3 organ throughout, and Derek's solos on that instrument are much better than his synth ones, which except for 1 or 2 are just warm-up exercises.

Almost the entire album is rocking or otherwise heavy...very few soft sections to be found. I find this tiring. Some will love it. It's similar to TOT in this aspect.

Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Ben_Jamin on October 18, 2017, 10:59:37 PM
Yeah. Some of the songs remind me Day of The Dead heavy.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: The Silent Cody on October 18, 2017, 11:45:18 PM
How can you say there are no mediocre songs when two have already been released?

Excellent point.
:police: :police:
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Kwyjibo on October 19, 2017, 02:48:22 AM
Strangely enough, the instrumental "Opus Maximus" is my least favorite on the cd (and I seriously question its placement at the end of the cd).

I haven't heard it but I predict this will be a disjointed wank fest, but hope to be proved wrong. I would like a cohesive piece with strong melodies but that's probably not prog enough.  :biggrin:
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ariich on October 19, 2017, 04:14:06 AM
Strangely enough, the instrumental "Opus Maximus" is my least favorite on the cd (and I seriously question its placement at the end of the cd).

I haven't heard it but I predict this will be a disjointed wank fest, but hope to be proved wrong. I would like a cohesive piece with strong melodies but that's probably not prog enough.  :biggrin:
It's pretty good, but in my opinion its placement is wrong. Instrumental prog isn't normally the most exciting thing, so without any vocal songs to look forward after it, I find it easy to tune out a bit.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Fritzinger on October 19, 2017, 04:36:28 AM
Received the SOA cd today  ;D and after 4 consecutive listens, I'm of the opinion that this is THE album of the year! I wouldn't call it prog rock, prog metal or hard rock, but I would definitely call it "Melodic Prog-Metal". From the INCREDIBLE opener "God of The Sun" throughout the album, there isn't one bad, or even mediocre  song. Strangely enough, the instrumental "Opus Maximus" is my least favorite on the cd (and I seriously question its placement at the end of the cd). It's high quality stuff, but I actually expected to be blown away which I wasn't. I think many of the jam parts of other songs are far more interesting.
Jeff Scott Soto & Bumblefoot just knock it out of the park, while MP, Derek and Billy shine as they always do. There are influences all through this cd. From Deep Purple to the melodic melody of The Winery Dogs, to the rock attack of Van Halen & Alter Bridge and of course the progressiveness of  Derek's solo albums and even Planet X. There is something for everyone of Psychotic Symphony. This is certainly not a Dream Theater clone at all (as it shouldn't be as there is already a Dream Theater giving us what we need in their style). If you can get past Derek's not so subtle shots at DT (I don't know where people get the idea that MP has knocked them at all in any of these SOA interviews), you will find a tremendous cd! 9.5/10

Sounds good, I never got why they chose an instrumental song to be the last.
I hope my vinyl arrives tomorrow, I ordered it from insideout, which is a german label, and now I live in Austria...
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ariich on October 19, 2017, 05:03:09 AM
Much as I like MP and DS, I'd pretty much agree with As I Am that the MVPs on the album are JSS and Bumblefoot. I'm really digging Soto's voice, and I love Bumblefoot's playing. I wasn't all that interested in Lost in Oblivion until a few listens in when I really noticed the guitar work which makes the song that much more quirky and engaging.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: devieira73 on October 19, 2017, 05:41:21 AM
About JSS, it seems some people here are expecting to hear JSS from 20 years ago, but this won't be the case:
"the first thing I thought was I hope they don’t expect me to sing in that sort of Dream Theater, higher range that I don’t really do any more. That’s not really my wheelhouse these days. And if that was the case they’re going to have to find another guy because that’s not where my voice lives any more. But, thankfully that was the opposite of that they wanted. It actually worked to my advantage on every level, especially once the songwriting process began.”

https://www.musiclifemagazine.net/jeff-scott-soto-thrilled-to-be-part-of-sons-of-apollo/
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: RodrigoAltaf on October 19, 2017, 05:55:44 AM
My favourite song off this album is Alive. Derek really charges on the keyboard, the guitar solo is amazing, with notes stretched to the limit, and what a great chorus!
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: nobloodyname on October 19, 2017, 06:04:39 AM
I'm with others who say they're impressed by Ron Thal on this album. Some fantastic playing on a very good album.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: BelichickFan on October 19, 2017, 06:26:13 AM
I've tried and tried but I am not getting there.  It's well played but the songwriting is lacking for me.  It's generic, not a lot of interesting melodies and the best ones sound so much like Symphony X leftovers, I might as well just listen to the real thing.  There are parts I really like but the leader forgot to get himself a songwriter.  Petrucci/Rudess are way under rated as pure songwriters.  They're creative and interesting.  For my taste there's not a single track that is creative and interesting.  30 second parts of tracks ?  Sure there's some parts I like - some I really like - but as songs and then as an album it's too generic for me to really care about.

I'm going to listen to The Astonishing.  Almost two years later and having heard it a few hundred times, it's still more interesting to me.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: BelichickFan on October 19, 2017, 06:34:09 AM
Strangely enough, the instrumental "Opus Maximus" is my least favorite on the cd (and I seriously question its placement at the end of the cd).

I haven't heard it but I predict this will be a disjointed wank fest, but hope to be proved wrong. I would like a cohesive piece with strong melodies but that's probably not prog enough.  :biggrin:
It's pretty good, but in my opinion its placement is wrong. Instrumental prog isn't normally the most exciting thing, so without any vocal songs to look forward after it, I find it easy to tune out a bit.
The good thing about living in today's digital world is you can just move it.  As for why ?  Mike probably thought it would be such a cool, prog thing to do to end with a 10+ minute instrumental.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ariich on October 19, 2017, 06:37:05 AM
Strangely enough, the instrumental "Opus Maximus" is my least favorite on the cd (and I seriously question its placement at the end of the cd).

I haven't heard it but I predict this will be a disjointed wank fest, but hope to be proved wrong. I would like a cohesive piece with strong melodies but that's probably not prog enough.  :biggrin:
It's pretty good, but in my opinion its placement is wrong. Instrumental prog isn't normally the most exciting thing, so without any vocal songs to look forward after it, I find it easy to tune out a bit.
The good thing about living in today's digital world is you can just move it.  As for why ?  Mike probably thought it would be such a cool, prog thing to do to end with a 10+ minute instrumental.
A part of me wonders if it's actually the other way round. Maybe they figured the album would be more accessible for those who wouldn't get a 10-minute prog instrumental, as they can just ignore it.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: faizoff on October 19, 2017, 06:49:35 AM
So to those have heard it so far, would you get the instrumental version of the CD?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: The Walrus on October 19, 2017, 07:14:52 AM
So we can freely discuss this album now?

Meh. I don't want to rain on the parade so I'll just leave at this, it's a massive disappointment. Redefining prog metal, my ass... I wouldn't get the instrumental version. I'd rather watch Heartbeeps again than listen to an instrumental of Coming Home.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: MirrorMask on October 19, 2017, 07:34:25 AM
So we can freely discuss this album now?

Isn't tomorrow the release date? maybe the ones who are talking about it all got promo copies.

Anyway, imagine this funny scenario... before the album is out:

"No discussions of leaks!!!"

"Ok!"

The day the album comes out: a lot of in depth reviews describing in precise details all the songs  :lol
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: BelichickFan on October 19, 2017, 07:37:54 AM
So we can freely discuss this album now?

Isn't tomorrow the release date? maybe the ones who are talking about it all got promo copies.
Some on-line places mail them out before the release date so that they arrive on release date and it's not unusual for them to arrive a day or two early.  They don't tell the post office to hold onto them until a certain day ;)
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: goo-goo on October 19, 2017, 07:49:36 AM
So to those have heard it so far, would you get the instrumental version of the CD?

I bought the 2CD mediabook edition. I like mediabooks more than digipacks. I should be getting it in a couple of days.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: goo-goo on October 19, 2017, 07:53:37 AM
Quote
BelichickFan

Just quoting you because you have an awesome username!  :metal go Pats!
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: RodrigoAltaf on October 19, 2017, 07:54:10 AM
I have a promo copy. And I never understood the interest in "instruments-only" versions, so my answer is no, I wouldn't buy the 2CD version of this release.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ErHaO on October 19, 2017, 08:26:35 AM
So we can freely discuss this album now?

Isn't tomorrow the release date? maybe the ones who are talking about it all got promo copies.

Anyway, imagine this funny scenario... before the album is out:

"No discussions of leaks!!!"

"Ok!"

The day the album comes out: a lot of in depth reviews describing in precise details all the songs  :lol

Over here it can occur that people get copies early. In rare cases even like a week or so. I recall people getting The Source by Ayreon very early. Probably as the controls on niche products are not very tight? Don't know, I rarely buy something on release/blind. However, dates for major releases (games especially) are rarely broken I think.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Stadler on October 19, 2017, 08:36:39 AM
So to those have heard it so far, would you get the instrumental version of the CD?

I bought the 2CD mediabook edition. I like mediabooks more than digipacks. I should be getting it in a couple of days.

What's a "mediabook"?  Is it worth it if I'm not interested in the instrumental tracks? 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bill1971 on October 19, 2017, 08:56:59 AM
So we can freely discuss this album now?

Meh. I don't want to rain on the parade so I'll just leave at this, it's a massive disappointment. Redefining prog metal, my ass... I wouldn't get the instrumental version. I'd rather watch Heartbeeps again than listen to an instrumental of Coming Home.

That made me laugh. :)

I am curious to hear this album but based on the reviews it's not super promising. Not bad but not ground breaking. I do like JSS's voice and would love to hear more of Ron Thal. I hate to say it but MP is the least interesting part of this. I'd rather hear Virgil on this. Also as someone else said MP has not been negative towards DT at least not in the press for this release it has been all DS.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Fritzinger on October 19, 2017, 09:03:22 AM
So we can freely discuss this album now?

Meh. I don't want to rain on the parade so I'll just leave at this, it's a massive disappointment. Redefining prog metal, my ass... I wouldn't get the instrumental version. I'd rather watch Heartbeeps again than listen to an instrumental of Coming Home.

That made me laugh. :)

I am curious to hear this album but based on the reviews it's not super promising. Not bad but not ground breaking. I do like JSS's voice and would love to hear more of Ron Thal. I hate to say it but MP is the least interesting part of this. I'd rather hear Virgil on this. Also as someone else said MP has not been negative towards DT at least not in the press for this release it has been all DS.

I feel Virgil wouldn't fit in this band.. IMO he sometimes overdoes it. His music is sometimes complex just for the sake of it.
Maybe Mike is the least interesting part for us since we have already heard 1000 hours of him playing Prog Metal?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Samsara on October 19, 2017, 09:08:02 AM
I ordered the 1 CD edition. I like media books, but I didn't see it necessary to buy instrumental versions of the songs. Had they done a disc of cover tunes, or something like that, I would have.

Looking forward to hearing it.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: goo-goo on October 19, 2017, 09:43:13 AM
So to those have heard it so far, would you get the instrumental version of the CD?

I bought the 2CD mediabook edition. I like mediabooks more than digipacks. I should be getting it in a couple of days.

What's a "mediabook"?  Is it worth it if I'm not interested in the instrumental tracks?

It's one of those packages that are thicker than a digipack, kind of like a mini-book hardcover version. The mediabook is only available for the 2CD edition.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: As I Am on October 19, 2017, 09:54:22 AM
Meh. I don't want to rain on the parade so I'll just leave at this, it's a massive disappointment. Redefining prog metal, my ass...

But, that's EXACTLY what it does! It's not your typical prog-metal, it's more of a hard rock melodic prog metal, if you will, and to me, THAT IS "re-defining" in its essence. If you're not a fan, that's fine. I understand how "disappointment" could be, since most of us (including me) expected more of a DT type sound (well for me that was until the 3 other players were announced). This album is NOTHING like DT. It's much more of a hard rock approach to progressive music. The first 2 songs released to us, certainly had me scratching my head, but in the context of the entire cd, they both work very well (especially "Coming Home"). :metal
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: devieira73 on October 19, 2017, 10:19:27 AM
So we can freely discuss this album now?

Meh. I don't want to rain on the parade so I'll just leave at this, it's a massive disappointment. Redefining prog metal, my ass... I wouldn't get the instrumental version. I'd rather watch Heartbeeps again than listen to an instrumental of Coming Home.

That made me laugh. :)

I am curious to hear this album but based on the reviews it's not super promising. Not bad but not ground breaking. I do like JSS's voice and would love to hear more of Ron Thal. I hate to say it but MP is the least interesting part of this. I'd rather hear Virgil on this. Also as someone else said MP has not been negative towards DT at least not in the press for this release it has been all DS.

I feel Virgil wouldn't fit in this band.. IMO he sometimes overdoes it. His music is sometimes complex just for the sake of it.
Maybe Mike is the least interesting part for us since we have already heard 1000 hours of him playing Prog Metal?

I guess it's really it. I think it's impossible after a while any musician sounds so inovative or original. Let's say, even Carter Beauford - a monster drummer that I LOVE and is incredible creative - is sounding samey to me nowadays and I'm totally OK with that, I'm still enjoy a lot his drumming (like MP)
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: devieira73 on October 19, 2017, 10:22:08 AM
Sorry, double post
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Lethean on October 19, 2017, 10:23:50 AM
Meh. I don't want to rain on the parade so I'll just leave at this, it's a massive disappointment. Redefining prog metal, my ass...

But, that's EXACTLY what it does! It's not your typical prog-metal, it's more of a hard rock melodic prog metal, if you will, and to me, THAT IS "re-defining" in its essence. If you're not a fan, that's fine. I understand how "disappointment" could be, since most of us (including me) expected more of a DT type sound (well for me that was until the 3 other players were announced). This album is NOTHING like DT. It's much more of a hard rock approach to progressive music. The first 2 songs released to us, certainly had me scratching my head, but in the context of the entire cd, they both work very well (especially "Coming Home"). :metal

Sorry to say, I don't think this redefines anything.  Nothing here is new. And you'd need that to redefine the genre. As someone else mentioned, much of this sounds like really weak Symphony X. And hard rock isn't exactly ground breaking either. Not to say it can't be good, or have great playing. But it's not fresh, it's not new.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: noxon on October 19, 2017, 10:36:25 AM
This is a generic hard rock album with some proggy instrumental stuff in between. It's dad rock written by wannabe toughtguys who have an idea of what "tough bands" write, but none of them have actually BEEN in a "tough band". It sounds like it wants to be everything else than original. If you think this album redefines a genre - man, you can't have heard much of the genre...
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: mikeyd23 on October 19, 2017, 10:39:37 AM
Meh. I don't want to rain on the parade so I'll just leave at this, it's a massive disappointment. Redefining prog metal, my ass...

But, that's EXACTLY what it does! It's not your typical prog-metal, it's more of a hard rock melodic prog metal, if you will, and to me, THAT IS "re-defining" in its essence. If you're not a fan, that's fine. I understand how "disappointment" could be, since most of us (including me) expected more of a DT type sound (well for me that was until the 3 other players were announced). This album is NOTHING like DT. It's much more of a hard rock approach to progressive music. The first 2 songs released to us, certainly had me scratching my head, but in the context of the entire cd, they both work very well (especially "Coming Home"). :metal

Sorry to say, I don't think this redefines anything.  Nothing here is new. And you'd need that to redefine the genre. As someone else mentioned, much of this sounds like really weak Symphony X. And hard rock isn't exactly ground breaking either. Not to say it can't be good, or have great playing. But it's not fresh, it's not new.

Yea for real. There are actually bands pushing the genre forward, from the singles, I'm guessing this isn't that. Which is totally fine, I honestly didn't expect a group of guys in their 50s and 60s to push the prog-rock, prog-metal genre forward in a new direction.

Edit - noxon said it better than I.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: The Walrus on October 19, 2017, 10:42:11 AM
Meh. I don't want to rain on the parade so I'll just leave at this, it's a massive disappointment. Redefining prog metal, my ass...

But, that's EXACTLY what it does! It's not your typical prog-metal, it's more of a hard rock melodic prog metal, if you will, and to me, THAT IS "re-defining" in its essence. If you're not a fan, that's fine. I understand how "disappointment" could be, since most of us (including me) expected more of a DT type sound (well for me that was until the 3 other players were announced). This album is NOTHING like DT. It's much more of a hard rock approach to progressive music. The first 2 songs released to us, certainly had me scratching my head, but in the context of the entire cd, they both work very well (especially "Coming Home"). :metal

Sorry to say, I don't think this redefines anything.  Nothing here is new. And you'd need that to redefine the genre. As someone else mentioned, much of this sounds like really weak Symphony X. And hard rock isn't exactly ground breaking either. Not to say it can't be good, or have great playing. But it's not fresh, it's not new.

Bingo. There's absolutely nothing new here. Well said, Lethean and noxon... to the bolded part: it's redefining the genre by taking steps backwards? I mean, it's an interesting take, but not one that I'd say benefits PROG music

EDIT: Not to shit on anyone who likes the album. I seriously hope people enjoy it! But it's a far cry from what Derek hyped it to be. Making history? Well... we'll see  :)
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: the keyboard wizard on October 19, 2017, 10:50:18 AM
This album is NOTHING like DT. It's much more of a hard rock approach to progressive music.
This album is nothing like DT? What do you make of God of the Sun? a total rip off of Lines in the Sand and Home. What do you make of Signs of the Time and especially the break which sounds like Trial of Tears? What do you make of Opus Maximus: an instrumental that is built the way DT compose their long songs now: copy pasting riffs without coherence. SOA even managed to sound like post Portnoy DT sometimes! I remember hearing something that was close to Breaking All Illusions :D

I understand how "disappointment" could be, since most of us (including me) expected more of a DT type sound (well for me that was until the 3 other players were announced).
I was more disappointed by the fact it was supposed to redefine the genre and put the level higher.  I wasn't expecting a DT album and didn't want to have one. It's a good album of hard/prog metal but not the expected revolution. When I listen to the album I hear some Deep Purple, Van Halen, Dream Theater, Rush, Transatlantic, Marillion, Ayreon...how is it new in the world of prog metal?

Now I have to say I liked the album after a few listenings. The first was "meh, it's not the ground-breaking album they sold us": a bit like when your friend teases you about "that awesome movie that you need to watch asap" and after watching it, you're disappointed. Then I listened to it a lot and I like it but you need to go past the idea that it will change the face of prog metal.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: erwinrafael on October 19, 2017, 10:54:29 AM
My only interest here is JSS. Should I buy?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: gzarruk on October 19, 2017, 10:56:31 AM
This album is NOTHING like DT. It's much more of a hard rock approach to progressive music.
This album is nothing like DT? What do you make of God of the Sun? a total rip off of Lines in the Sand and Home. What do you make of Signs of the Time and especially the break which sounds like Trial of Tears? What do you make of Opus Maximus: an instrumental that is built the way they compose their songs now: copy pasting riffs without coherence. They even managed to sound like post Portnoy DT sometimes! I remember hearing something that was close to Breaking All Illusions :D

I wouldn't say post MP DT write songs that way. From TOT to BC&SL? Maybe, but the last 3 records are the complete opposite, imo. The only exception could be Illumination Theory, and still, it's one of my favorites.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ariich on October 19, 2017, 11:29:32 AM
Wait, why was anyone expecting this to be redefining anything? Why would that even matter?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: erwinrafael on October 19, 2017, 11:32:04 AM
This album is NOTHING like DT. It's much more of a hard rock approach to progressive music.
This album is nothing like DT? What do you make of God of the Sun? a total rip off of Lines in the Sand and Home. What do you make of Signs of the Time and especially the break which sounds like Trial of Tears? What do you make of Opus Maximus: an instrumental that is built the way they compose their songs now: copy pasting riffs without coherence. They even managed to sound like post Portnoy DT sometimes! I remember hearing something that was close to Breaking All Illusions :D

I wouldn't say post MP DT write songs that way. From TOT to BC&SL? Maybe, but the last 3 records are the complete opposite, imo. The only exception could be Illumination Theory, and still, it's one of my favorites.

I think you misunderstood the keyboard wizard's post. He meant "What do you make of Opus Maximus: an instrumental that is built the way MEMBERS OF SONS OF APOLLO compose their songs now: copy pasting riffs without coherence. SONS OF APOLLO even managed to sound like post Portnoy DT sometimes! I remember hearing something that was close to Breaking All Illusions :D
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: the keyboard wizard on October 19, 2017, 11:37:41 AM
You were both wrong :D  an instrumental that is built the way DT compose their long songs now: copy pasting riffs without coherence (Illumination Theory, the disco crazy break of BAI, Enigma Machine, Outcry) . SOA even managed to sound like post Portnoy DT sometimes!
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: As I Am on October 19, 2017, 11:39:23 AM
Not to shit on anyone who likes the album. I seriously hope people enjoy it! But it's a far cry from what Derek hyped it to be. Making history? Well... we'll see  :)

I agree with this. It's NOT what was hyped many months ago, but that doesn't mean what they have developed isn't great.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: erwinrafael on October 19, 2017, 11:44:25 AM
You were both wrong :D  an instrumental that is built the way DT compose their long songs now: copy pasting riffs without coherence (Illumination Theory, the disco crazy break of BAI, Enigma Machine, Outcry) . SOA even managed to sound like post Portnoy DT sometimes!

Ah...then I don't agree with you.  :rollin Except Outcry.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: emtee on October 19, 2017, 11:52:30 AM
So a couple people like it and far more seem meh on it.

I'll need to hear it before I make the purchase.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on October 19, 2017, 11:56:14 AM
Wait, why was anyone expecting this to be redefining anything? Why would that even matter?

Probably due to the way they hyped the album creating expectations.  For me, the two singles didn't meet any of the expectations the band put out about the album "Kings of Prog" and the singles were hardly even prog.  Granted, if you can separate the hype from the music, it shouldn't matter in terms of enjoying the end product.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Ben_Jamin on October 19, 2017, 12:11:56 PM
We can still enjoy the album. But King of Prof, and re-defining prog it is not.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: goo-goo on October 19, 2017, 12:20:11 PM
My only interest here is JSS. Should I buy?

I think he comes off a bit weak on the vocal department. He pretty much stays in the angry-mode middle range voice. Nothing exciting to be honest.

I will say that the highlight of the album for me is Derek and probably Bumblefoot. Derek's playing was pretty high quality throughout the album.

Aside that, it's a massive disappointment for me. Sheehan and MP did not bring anything new to the table. Pretty much a prog version of the Winery Dogs/Adrenaline Mob with Keys.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Metro on October 19, 2017, 12:22:06 PM
I've listened to this album several times over the past couple weeks. I enjoyed it quite a bit on my first listen but with every subsequent listen I find another thing I dislike about it. Some of those things have been stated already.
First, It doesn't live up to the hype. This is not the genre-defining prog masterpiece that DS and MP have boasted about.
Instead this is what you get:
This is a generic hard rock album with some proggy instrumental stuff in between. It's dad rock written by wannabe toughtguys who have an idea of what "tough bands" write, but none of them have actually BEEN in a "tough band". It sounds like it wants to be everything else than original. If you think this album redefines a genre - man, you can't have heard much of the genre...

I couldn't have said it better myself. I previously stated that Coming Home sounded like Adrenaline Mob with Keyboards, and I think statement is true for a lot of the heavier moments on this album.
I don't dislike it because it's not prog, I dislike it because it's uninspired, unmemorable, and dare I say, unnecessary. I don't think it's a coincidence that this came out after DT's The Astonishing.  The Astonishing was definitely lacking in terms of heavy tracks, and I think this album was written in response to that (as evidenced by Derek's tweets). It was written to appeal to those fans who are fans of the heavier side of DT. The thing is, they try too hard to make this a heavy album and to me it feels very forced. The other problem is, as others have said before, even though you have 4 extremely talented musicians and a great singer, you don't have a real songwriter in the band. And the album suffers because of that.
As many times as I've listened to it, the only riff that I find memorable is the main riff to Signs of the Time, and that's only because it's a rip off of Roots Bloody Roots - Sepultura. The rest of the songs don't have any real memorable riffs or melodies. And the riffs and melodies that are there, to me, sound uninspired and quickly thrown together. Almost like this album was written in a little over a week. Hmmm.. :justjen
On that note, the line "Cuz I'm coming home" from Coming Home sounds EXACTLY the same as the line "Cuz I am alive" from Alive. https://www.dropbox.com/s/m6c2qtechpghyo4/Untitled.wav?dl=0

I also have to mention the track "Figaro's Whore". In addition to being a stupid name, it's a totally unnecessary track. It's like Eddie Van Halen's Eruption, but for keyboards. It's a minute-long organ solo by Derek with some accented notes from the other guys, but it's neither melodically nor rhythmically interesting. We already know Derek can shred a keyboard. His previous solos on the album prove that. We don't need a solo track to prove that further. This track is pointless.

JSS is wasted on this album. I believe he can be a great vocalist in the right setting, but this isn't it.
As others have said, Bumblefoot shines on this album. To me he's the MVP of this album. I'm definitely gonna check out some of his solo work. He has some very cool solos on this album, but as I said, most of the main riffs are very bland.
Billy Sheehan, surprisingly, plays the role of a bassist on this album. I was initially disappointed to hear that he would be a part of this, but he manages to restrain himself and play for the song.
MP is a great drummer, I will not deny that, but he doesn't do anything new or creative on this album. He's using the same fills he's been using for the last 10 years or so. Nothing surprises me.
Derek is also on this album.

I didn't mean for this to turn into a full review. That's all I've got to say about this disappointing project.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: RodrigoAltaf on October 19, 2017, 12:23:00 PM
I have a question for those who didn't like the album all that much. Would you guys still see the band live if they came to your city?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Schurftkut on October 19, 2017, 12:27:03 PM
i plan on seeing them yes. I don't think the music is that interesting, but it's good enough for a cool liveshow. I'm mostly wanting to go to see these 5 entertainers on the stage together.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: The Silent Cody on October 19, 2017, 12:27:32 PM
I have a question for those who didn't like the album all that much. Would you guys still see the band live if they came to your city?
Hmmmm, good question...I think no, honestly...
And that is what I think literally about that album 
I've listened to this album several times over the past couple weeks. I enjoyed it quite a bit on my first listen but with every subsequent listen I find another thing I dislike about it. Some of those things have been stated already.
First, It doesn't live up to the hype. This is not the genre-defining prog masterpiece that DS and MP have boasted about.
Instead this is what you get:
This is a generic hard rock album with some proggy instrumental stuff in between. It's dad rock written by wannabe toughtguys who have an idea of what "tough bands" write, but none of them have actually BEEN in a "tough band". It sounds like it wants to be everything else than original. If you think this album redefines a genre - man, you can't have heard much of the genre...

I couldn't have said it better myself. I previously stated that Coming Home sounded like Adrenaline Mob with Keyboards, and I think statement is true for a lot of the heavier moments on this album.
I don't dislike it because it's not prog, I dislike it because it's uninspired, unmemorable, and dare I say, unnecessary. I don't think it's a coincidence that this came out after DT's The Astonishing.  The Astonishing was definitely lacking in terms of heavy tracks, and I think this album was written in response to that (as evidenced by Derek's tweets). It was written to appeal to those fans who are fans of the heavier side of DT. The thing is, they try too hard to make this a heavy album and to me it feels very forced. The other problem is, as others have said before, even though you have 4 extremely talented musicians and a great singer, you don't have a real songwriter in the band. And the album suffers because of that.
As many times as I've listened to it, the only riff that I find memorable is the main riff to Signs of the Time, and that's only because it's a rip off of Roots Bloody Roots - Sepultura. The rest of the songs don't have any real memorable riffs or melodies. And the riffs and melodies that are there, to me, sound uninspired and quickly thrown together. Almost like this album was written in a little over a week. Hmmm.. :justjen
On that note, the line "Cuz I'm coming home" from Coming Home sounds EXACTLY the same as the line "Cuz I am alive" from Alive. https://www.dropbox.com/s/m6c2qtechpghyo4/Untitled.wav?dl=0

I also have to mention the track "Figaro's Whore". In addition to being a stupid name, it's a totally unnecessary track. It's like Eddie Van Halen's Eruption, but for keyboards. It's a minute-long organ solo by Derek with some accented notes from the other guys, but it's neither melodically nor rhythmically interesting. We already know Derek can shred a keyboard. His previous solos on the album prove that. We don't need a solo track to prove that further. This track is pointless.

JSS is wasted on this album. I believe he can be a great vocalist in the right setting, but this isn't it.
As others have said, Bumblefoot shines on this album. To me he's the MVP of this album. I'm definitely gonna check out some of his solo work. He has some very cool solos on this album, but as I said, most of the main riffs are very bland.
Billy Sheehan, surprisingly, plays the role of a bassist on this album. I was initially disappointed to hear that he would be a part of this, but he manages to restrain himself and play for the song.
MP is a great drummer, I will not deny that, but he doesn't do anything new or creative on this album. He's using the same fills he's been using for the last 10 years or so. Nothing surprises me.
Derek is also on this album.

I didn't mean for this to turn into a full review. That's all I've got to say about this disappointing project.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Metro on October 19, 2017, 12:28:24 PM
I have a question for those who didn't like the album all that much. Would you guys still see the band live if they came to your city?

Nope. Mainly because no one comes to Richmond :P
I'd have to drive to D.C. or Maryland to see them and I don't think it'd be worth taking time off of work.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ErHaO on October 19, 2017, 12:31:14 PM
When I look at some of my favourite records from recent times, the absolute majority of the songs on these albums do nothing new nor do they redefine a genre. These albums include To The Bone (Steven Wilson), The Source (Ayreon), Amber Galactic (Night Flight Orchestra), Stimiltude of a Dream (Neal Morse band) etc. I never expected that from this band nor do I need it. Marketing be damned, many bands overhype their latest album as the next big thing and their best ever. Unlike Adrenaline Mob I don't get "wanna be" tough music vibe from these guys (no disrespect in light of their recent tragedy, it is just my opinion of their material, despite me enjoying them occasionally), just solid rock/metal tunes with a proggy edge. If that is what the rest of the album sounds like, I am in.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: AngelBack on October 19, 2017, 12:36:09 PM
I love the disco crazy break in BAI.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: noxon on October 19, 2017, 01:07:33 PM
Wait, why was anyone expecting this to be redefining anything? Why would that even matter?

Actual quote:
"Derek: We’re redefining the genre!"
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: mikeyd23 on October 19, 2017, 01:09:59 PM
Wait, why was anyone expecting this to be redefining anything? Why would that even matter?

Actual quote:
"Derek: We’re redefining the genre!"

 :lol Yup! To the answer the original question, it doesn't matter - until they (DS) said that's what they were doing.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: gzarruk on October 19, 2017, 01:16:11 PM
I've listened to this album several times over the past couple weeks. I enjoyed it quite a bit on my first listen but with every subsequent listen I find another thing I dislike about it. Some of those things have been stated already.
First, It doesn't live up to the hype. This is not the genre-defining prog masterpiece that DS and MP have boasted about.
Instead this is what you get:
This is a generic hard rock album with some proggy instrumental stuff in between. It's dad rock written by wannabe toughtguys who have an idea of what "tough bands" write, but none of them have actually BEEN in a "tough band". It sounds like it wants to be everything else than original. If you think this album redefines a genre - man, you can't have heard much of the genre...

I couldn't have said it better myself. I previously stated that Coming Home sounded like Adrenaline Mob with Keyboards, and I think statement is true for a lot of the heavier moments on this album.
I don't dislike it because it's not prog, I dislike it because it's uninspired, unmemorable, and dare I say, unnecessary. I don't think it's a coincidence that this came out after DT's The Astonishing.  The Astonishing was definitely lacking in terms of heavy tracks, and I think this album was written in response to that (as evidenced by Derek's tweets). It was written to appeal to those fans who are fans of the heavier side of DT. The thing is, they try too hard to make this a heavy album and to me it feels very forced. The other problem is, as others have said before, even though you have 4 extremely talented musicians and a great singer, you don't have a real songwriter in the band. And the album suffers because of that.
As many times as I've listened to it, the only riff that I find memorable is the main riff to Signs of the Time, and that's only because it's a rip off of Roots Bloody Roots - Sepultura. The rest of the songs don't have any real memorable riffs or melodies. And the riffs and melodies that are there, to me, sound uninspired and quickly thrown together. Almost like this album was written in a little over a week. Hmmm.. :justjen
On that note, the line "Cuz I'm coming home" from Coming Home sounds EXACTLY the same as the line "Cuz I am alive" from Alive. https://www.dropbox.com/s/m6c2qtechpghyo4/Untitled.wav?dl=0

I also have to mention the track "Figaro's Whore". In addition to being a stupid name, it's a totally unnecessary track. It's like Eddie Van Halen's Eruption, but for keyboards. It's a minute-long organ solo by Derek with some accented notes from the other guys, but it's neither melodically nor rhythmically interesting. We already know Derek can shred a keyboard. His previous solos on the album prove that. We don't need a solo track to prove that further. This track is pointless.

JSS is wasted on this album. I believe he can be a great vocalist in the right setting, but this isn't it.
As others have said, Bumblefoot shines on this album. To me he's the MVP of this album. I'm definitely gonna check out some of his solo work. He has some very cool solos on this album, but as I said, most of the main riffs are very bland.
Billy Sheehan, surprisingly, plays the role of a bassist on this album. I was initially disappointed to hear that he would be a part of this, but he manages to restrain himself and play for the song.
MP is a great drummer, I will not deny that, but he doesn't do anything new or creative on this album. He's using the same fills he's been using for the last 10 years or so. Nothing surprises me.
Derek is also on this album.

I didn't mean for this to turn into a full review. That's all I've got to say about this disappointing project.

I won't post my thoughts untill tomorrow, because, like some people here, I got the (insert the "L" word here) album and can't comment on it yet, but I have to say that this is 100% accurate, imo.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Nick on October 19, 2017, 01:18:54 PM
Wait, why was anyone expecting this to be redefining anything? Why would that even matter?

Actual quote:
"Derek: We’re redefining the genre!"

:lol
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Elite on October 19, 2017, 01:25:36 PM
From everything I'm reading and the only song I heard (the first one they released) this sounds like a great contender for 'most boring album of the year'.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: w_marano on October 19, 2017, 01:50:55 PM
I've listened to this album several times over the past couple weeks. I enjoyed it quite a bit on my first listen but with every subsequent listen I find another thing I dislike about it. Some of those things have been stated already.
First, It doesn't live up to the hype. This is not the genre-defining prog masterpiece that DS and MP have boasted about.
Instead this is what you get:
This is a generic hard rock album with some proggy instrumental stuff in between. It's dad rock written by wannabe toughtguys who have an idea of what "tough bands" write, but none of them have actually BEEN in a "tough band". It sounds like it wants to be everything else than original. If you think this album redefines a genre - man, you can't have heard much of the genre...

I couldn't have said it better myself. I previously stated that Coming Home sounded like Adrenaline Mob with Keyboards, and I think statement is true for a lot of the heavier moments on this album.
I don't dislike it because it's not prog, I dislike it because it's uninspired, unmemorable, and dare I say, unnecessary. I don't think it's a coincidence that this came out after DT's The Astonishing.  The Astonishing was definitely lacking in terms of heavy tracks, and I think this album was written in response to that (as evidenced by Derek's tweets). It was written to appeal to those fans who are fans of the heavier side of DT. The thing is, they try too hard to make this a heavy album and to me it feels very forced. The other problem is, as others have said before, even though you have 4 extremely talented musicians and a great singer, you don't have a real songwriter in the band. And the album suffers because of that.
As many times as I've listened to it, the only riff that I find memorable is the main riff to Signs of the Time, and that's only because it's a rip off of Roots Bloody Roots - Sepultura. The rest of the songs don't have any real memorable riffs or melodies. And the riffs and melodies that are there, to me, sound uninspired and quickly thrown together. Almost like this album was written in a little over a week. Hmmm.. :justjen
On that note, the line "Cuz I'm coming home" from Coming Home sounds EXACTLY the same as the line "Cuz I am alive" from Alive. https://www.dropbox.com/s/m6c2qtechpghyo4/Untitled.wav?dl=0

I also have to mention the track "Figaro's Whore". In addition to being a stupid name, it's a totally unnecessary track. It's like Eddie Van Halen's Eruption, but for keyboards. It's a minute-long organ solo by Derek with some accented notes from the other guys, but it's neither melodically nor rhythmically interesting. We already know Derek can shred a keyboard. His previous solos on the album prove that. We don't need a solo track to prove that further. This track is pointless.

JSS is wasted on this album. I believe he can be a great vocalist in the right setting, but this isn't it.
As others have said, Bumblefoot shines on this album. To me he's the MVP of this album. I'm definitely gonna check out some of his solo work. He has some very cool solos on this album, but as I said, most of the main riffs are very bland.
Billy Sheehan, surprisingly, plays the role of a bassist on this album. I was initially disappointed to hear that he would be a part of this, but he manages to restrain himself and play for the song.
MP is a great drummer, I will not deny that, but he doesn't do anything new or creative on this album. He's using the same fills he's been using for the last 10 years or so. Nothing surprises me.
Derek is also on this album.

I didn't mean for this to turn into a full review. That's all I've got to say about this disappointing project.

100000000% Agree!
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: kaos2900 on October 19, 2017, 02:25:31 PM
For me this album has been a game changer and not in a good way.

1. It led to the MP forum being shut down.
2. It lowered my personal opinion of MP and DS
3. It's the first MP related album I'm refusing to purchase and listen to simply due to the actions and attitudes of the above 2 mentioned band members. I did hear the first 2 singles and they weren't enough to overcome the negativity
4. It will probably lead to the delay of MP's far superior projects (Flying Colors & Neal Morse Band)

Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Madman Shepherd on October 19, 2017, 03:01:52 PM
I've listened to this album several times over the past couple weeks. I enjoyed it quite a bit on my first listen but with every subsequent listen I find another thing I dislike about it. Some of those things have been stated already.
First, It doesn't live up to the hype. This is not the genre-defining prog masterpiece that DS and MP have boasted about.
Instead this is what you get:
This is a generic hard rock album with some proggy instrumental stuff in between. It's dad rock written by wannabe toughtguys who have an idea of what "tough bands" write, but none of them have actually BEEN in a "tough band". It sounds like it wants to be everything else than original. If you think this album redefines a genre - man, you can't have heard much of the genre...

I couldn't have said it better myself. I previously stated that Coming Home sounded like Adrenaline Mob with Keyboards, and I think statement is true for a lot of the heavier moments on this album.
I don't dislike it because it's not prog, I dislike it because it's uninspired, unmemorable, and dare I say, unnecessary. I don't think it's a coincidence that this came out after DT's The Astonishing.  The Astonishing was definitely lacking in terms of heavy tracks, and I think this album was written in response to that (as evidenced by Derek's tweets). It was written to appeal to those fans who are fans of the heavier side of DT. The thing is, they try too hard to make this a heavy album and to me it feels very forced.

Which is funny because this *should* appeal to me.  I HATED the Astonishing.  It has a few good songs and you can tell the band has the same great songwriters, musicians, and vocals, but it did nothing for me and I haven't listened to it in a long time.  I never really thought of it, but inadvertently I think that is why I was kind of excited for this SOA project even though I'd pretty much given up on Portnoy doing anything to excite me. 

Still won't be buying it unless I'm blown away. My friend is coming into town to see DT next month and he will be bringing SOA.  I'll give it a chance then but I'm doubtful it'll do much for me.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ariich on October 19, 2017, 03:29:03 PM
Wait, why was anyone expecting this to be redefining anything? Why would that even matter?

Actual quote:
"Derek: We’re redefining the genre!"
And people are taking silly hype and banter seriously why, exactly?

And again to my second question, so what? Even if he'd genuinely seriously meant that they were doing something completely original, why would it affect whether the music is enjoyable or not? I guess I just struggle a bit with how many people go into music with pre-conceptions and have their opinions skewed by these.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Madman Shepherd on October 19, 2017, 05:02:40 PM
Wait, why was anyone expecting this to be redefining anything? Why would that even matter?

Actual quote:
"Derek: We’re redefining the genre!"
And people are taking silly hype and banter seriously why, exactly?

And again to my second question, so what? Even if he'd genuinely seriously meant that they were doing something completely original, why would it affect whether the music is enjoyable or not? I guess I just struggle a bit with how many people go into music with pre-conceptions and have their opinions skewed by these.

That's kind of a weird statement to be honest.  You had preconceived notions that it would be good album. Your opinion like everyones will have a degree of subjectivity but you saw things that you liked based off of preconceived notions and it got you excited.  That's great.  Same thing happens with every album for every band and every fan. 

If people shouldn't let interviews and statements and tweets color their excitement for something then should bands just not promote their albums at all?  Furthermore, how is this the fan's burden rather than the person making these statements?



Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Adami on October 19, 2017, 05:08:58 PM
Wait, why was anyone expecting this to be redefining anything? Why would that even matter?

Actual quote:
"Derek: We’re redefining the genre!"
And people are taking silly hype and banter seriously why, exactly?

And again to my second question, so what? Even if he'd genuinely seriously meant that they were doing something completely original, why would it affect whether the music is enjoyable or not? I guess I just struggle a bit with how many people go into music with pre-conceptions and have their opinions skewed by these.

I get that from an intellectual perspective, but think of it this way.

If you were going on a blind date that your friend set up, and he told you over and over and over how the girl looks JUST like (insert a beautiful celeb you like here). He went on for a while about it. So you're pretty excited for that thing. You were also told she loves DT or SW or whatever. Then you get on the date and the girl looks....fine, but not at all like what your friend hyped, and turns out she's not into DT or SW at all.

She's a fine girl, but a part of you is going to be disappointed and that will affect things at first, at least. I doubt you, or anyone else, would be 100% open minded and not even a little disappointed or let down when she didn't at all live up to the hype being given.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Dave_Manchester on October 19, 2017, 05:40:33 PM
For my own part I don't really see anyone "taking silly hype and banter seriously", I think the people you're (ariich) talking about are simply mocking Derek's words now that they've heard the album. To me this album is dreary shit, an hour of insipid riffs awkwardly punctuated by shoehorned solo sections and unremarkable technical exercises, and Derek's perception of it only amuses me. I certainly can't describe myself as taking it at all "seriously". And in any case Derek enjoys internet repartee and has, I'm told, a quirky and sarcasm-based sense of humour, so I'm sure he also won't take any of this seriously.

As to your 2nd question about why an artist's words about their upcoming album affects people's enjoyment of it when it drops - I don't suppose it does. I think people will experience this album (any album) in two stages. First, they'll listen to decide if they enjoy it, and that will be 99.99% of their relationship with the record. Then, perhaps in an idle moment, they may remember how the artist described it before release and judge whether their own perception of the album matches the artist's. That's all really. I haven't really seen anyone say "I dislike this album because it isn't what Derek promised it would be". I've instead seen "I dislike this album, and by the way, on a separate issue, I don't feel it's what Derek promised it would be".
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: LTE777 on October 19, 2017, 05:48:27 PM
Just listened to this album 5 times all way through on Spotify.

This album is ok, but nothing special here and sounds like a blend of about 5 different bands and probably wont listen to this again.

Its like they had 8 hard rock songs then pasted some progressive metal sections in random places and it sounds like a bit of identity crisis.

Also, what's with the complete Haken 1985 rip off at the end of Labyrinth?????  Not even subtle....

Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: IDontNotDoThings on October 19, 2017, 05:54:09 PM
Hopefully I'll be able to get my pre-order this afternoon. I'll post first impressions when I listen to it for the first time.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: KevShmev on October 19, 2017, 07:04:31 PM
I have a question for those who didn't like the album all that much. Would you guys still see the band live if they came to your city?

No.  Some might scoff at this, but I am not a fan of giving money to scientologists.  I never buy anything with Billy Sheehan's name on it.

For me this album has been a game changer and not in a good way.

1. It led to the MP forum being shut down.
2. It lowered my personal opinion of MP and DS
3. It's the first MP related album I'm refusing to purchase and listen to simply due to the actions and attitudes of the above 2 mentioned band members. I did hear the first 2 singles and they weren't enough to overcome the negativity
4. It will probably lead to the delay of MP's far superior projects (Flying Colors & Neal Morse Band)

Agreed.  It will be really annoying if the next Neal Morse Band album and tour doesn't happen for a while because Portnoy is dicking around with this mediocre project.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Grappler on October 19, 2017, 07:20:07 PM
I think a lot of people put way too much stock into what these guys say.  A bunch of DT fans.will foam at the mouth over comments like "redefining prog metal."  But to really expect them to?  I don't...not when I listen to DT, Symphony X, and stuff like Tesseract and Teramaze.  But I do agree that it's not going to be typical prog metal.

I haven't heard the full record, but I'm guessing that the two songs released are representative of it.  If you like it, great.  If not, move along.  But to expect some crazy, prog metal masterpiece just because the musicians say so and after hearing those two songs? 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: erwinrafael on October 19, 2017, 07:34:05 PM
Already heard it.

What a waste of Jeff Scott Soto. He better focus on his solo album.

Rom Thal is amazing.

Billy Sheehan is not calling attention to himself, playing like how he did with Vai. Good.

Portnoy is stuck in the BC&SL era. Derek is stuck in the FII era.

It's bad when every song makes you go "it reminds me of something."
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: rumborak on October 19, 2017, 07:36:45 PM
Yeah, I essentially have mental nicknames for most tunes on the album. There's "Led Zeppelin writes Rocky II soundtrack", "that Deep Purple song", "Amob leftover tune" etc
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: TAC on October 19, 2017, 07:40:02 PM
"Amob leftover tune"

 :lol
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: erwinrafael on October 19, 2017, 08:35:11 PM
And for some reason, I hear some Mr. Big.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Adami on October 19, 2017, 08:42:32 PM
I think this might be a problem of someone like MP calling the shots.

When you don't write actual music, and you're a HUGE music fan, then your directions become "I think a Haaken riff, followed up by a Deeper Purple solo and then closing it out with a FII type bridge."
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ReaperKK on October 19, 2017, 09:01:51 PM
I've heard the album a few times already and it's pretty much right where BCSL left off with some FII keyboards. It's better than TA IMO but I don't see myself revisiting it often. I'm not a fan of JSS (this is my first exposure to him) and MP doesn't bring anything new to the table but is still a good listen.

Big fan of Ron though.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: rumborak on October 19, 2017, 09:05:22 PM
I'm with what most people here have said, I think JSS is actually a lot better than what he shows on this album.

That said, I was really surprised how poorly he sung that soft section in Labyrinth.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: LTE777 on October 19, 2017, 09:05:44 PM
I think this might be a problem of someone like MP calling the shots.

When you don't write actual music, and you're a HUGE music fan, then your directions become "I think a Haaken riff, followed up by a Deeper Purple solo and then closing it out with a FII type bridge."

or the end of Labyrinth which is an EXACT rip off of a Haken and not even trying....



Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: erwinrafael on October 19, 2017, 09:10:36 PM
I'm with what most people here have said, I think JSS is actually a lot better than what he shows on this album.

That said, I was really surprised how poorly he sung that soft section in Labyrinth.

Maybe he was "coached" to sing it in a peculiar manner. I don't know. I heard him sing soft sections like that very well. That's actually his forte now that he lost his range.

Labyrinth is my buggest frustration. There is a good song in there. Then it suddenly loses its identity.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: NoseofNicko on October 19, 2017, 09:21:29 PM
Average album is average. $20 saved.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Adami on October 19, 2017, 10:02:28 PM
I actually looked up JSS's new solo album out of interest. I was listening to the song Breakout when he sang "Liar....those pants on fire" and I had to turn it off. I can take some bad lyrics, but those are pretty awful. And it was a prechorus or chorus, so it keeps getting repeated!
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Bertie_Wooster on October 19, 2017, 10:39:24 PM
Opus maximus 👎👎👎👎
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: NoseofNicko on October 19, 2017, 10:44:57 PM
What is the point of Figaro’s Whore? There’s absolutely nothing enjoyable about that thing. It’s probably the most pointless instrumental I’ve ever heard.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: NoseofNicko on October 19, 2017, 10:50:07 PM
he sang "Liar....those pants on fire"

Oh man...
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: The Silent Cody on October 19, 2017, 11:10:21 PM
So it's 20th of October in Poland so I can speak about my opinions freely now :) I quoted a few posts up what I think about Psychotic Symphony, now I only want to add some things. When I first heard it, I was dissapointed. Why? Songs were unmemorable, even after couple of listens one thing that I catched singing myself day after was chorus froom The God Of The Sun. And that's the best song on album for me, next to Signs Of The Times. Unfortunately, any other track didn't catched my attention for more than three listens... Labyrinth is weak and boring, Alive sounds like Coming Home, Lost In Oblivion... meh, Opus Maximus is really nothing special, nothing memorable. Figaro's Whore... ??? ???
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: faizoff on October 19, 2017, 11:45:10 PM
Listened to this on google music. Hmm not sure what to make of it just yet. It starts out promising with the first few tracks and kinda ends on a sort of blandish note. I mean there's some great stuff in there. Not sure of it as an album on the whole. Will have to feel it out some more.

Also not sure why google music marked Figaro's Whore with an Explicit mark lol.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Anguyen92 on October 19, 2017, 11:47:25 PM
Also not sure why google music marked Figaro's Whore with an Explicit mark lol.

Spotify also has the Explicit mark on Figaro's Whore as well.  Maybe, their program has flagged the word whore as explicit?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ariich on October 19, 2017, 11:53:07 PM
That's kind of a weird statement to be honest.  You had preconceived notions that it would be good album.
I did? Where?

Quote
Your opinion like everyones will have a degree of subjectivity but you saw things that you liked based off of preconceived notions and it got you excited.  That's great.  Same thing happens with every album for every band and every fan. 

If people shouldn't let interviews and statements and tweets color their excitement for something then should bands just not promote their albums at all?
There's a difference between getting interested or even excited in something (not that I was ever particularly "excited" in this case), or indeed feel disinterested, and having that affect our opinion of the thing itself. Besides which, hype from the artist or label? Literally every album has that so we'd be excited by every single album if we let that affect us.

Quote
Furthermore, how is this the fan's burden rather than the person making these statements?
I never said it was, but why is it not both? Especially when the artists are widely known to overhype everything.

I get that from an intellectual perspective, but think of it this way.

If you were going on a blind date that your friend set up, and he told you over and over and over how the girl looks JUST like (insert a beautiful celeb you like here). He went on for a while about it. So you're pretty excited for that thing. You were also told she loves DT or SW or whatever. Then you get on the date and the girl looks....fine, but not at all like what your friend hyped, and turns out she's not into DT or SW at all.

She's a fine girl, but a part of you is going to be disappointed and that will affect things at first, at least. I doubt you, or anyone else, would be 100% open minded and not even a little disappointed or let down when she didn't at all live up to the hype being given.
Odd analogy, but let's go with it. How reliable is my friend? Does he tend to say that about every woman he meets? Does he have a vested interest in getting me to like this girl, is she a friend of his for example?

In most cases, I wouldn't take someone's word for it. If my friend had a track record of reliable judgement, yeah I'd probably get a bit excited. And maybe I'd feel let down by him, although if I liked the girl for who she was then I don't imagine I'd care much.  But for the most part, I wait and make up my own mind, especially on subjective matters.

For my own part I don't really see anyone "taking silly hype and banter seriously", I think the people you're (ariich) talking about are simply mocking Derek's words now that they've heard the album. To me this album is dreary shit, an hour of insipid riffs awkwardly punctuated by shoehorned solo sections and unremarkable technical exercises, and Derek's perception of it only amuses me. I certainly can't describe myself as taking it at all "seriously". And in any case Derek enjoys internet repartee and has, I'm told, a quirky and sarcasm-based sense of humour, so I'm sure he also won't take any of this seriously.

As to your 2nd question about why an artist's words about their upcoming album affects people's enjoyment of it when it drops - I don't suppose it does. I think people will experience this album (any album) in two stages. First, they'll listen to decide if they enjoy it, and that will be 99.99% of their relationship with the record. Then, perhaps in an idle moment, they may remember how the artist described it before release and judge whether their own perception of the album matches the artist's. That's all really. I haven't really seen anyone say "I dislike this album because it isn't what Derek promised it would be". I've instead seen "I dislike this album, and by the way, on a separate issue, I don't feel it's what Derek promised it would be".
That's fine, then my statement doesn't apply to you. There are a number of people stating disappointment that the album is not what it was hyped up to be.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Anguyen92 on October 20, 2017, 12:06:34 AM
Well, finished listening to the album now.  I think the album is a bit ehh.  I mean the playing is strong, and it should be strong given the caliber of musicians.  I think with the exception of Coming Home and Alive, I don't think there are really any songs I want to go and say I want to listen to that again.  I mean I probably would not listen to Opus Maximus as much as say "Stream of Consciousness" or even Enigma Machine.

I noticed Derek has taken some "subtle" shots, even if he is joking about it, about The Astonishing, but even in its 2+ hour "opera"-like format, there were plenty of moments and songs that I want to relisten to and have enjoyed. I really can't say the same for Psychotic Symphony.  I feel like the songwriting could have been a lot better and maybe there could have been much more memorable/enjoyable songs to me.

Heck, Bumblefoot had another album released earlier this year with Art of Anarchy and their "The Madness" album and I kinda enjoyed that better than Psychotic Symphony (and I don't like Scott Stapp, at all, and, oddly enough, in the build-up to that album release, he wasn't taking any public shots at all at either Mark Tremonti or Myles Kennedy or Alter Bridge on the level that Derek had delivered at DT).

So in the end, it's not a bad album.  It's just one that I would not see myself listening to again, but I hope the band does well, and maybe the next album, if there is a next album, will be enjoyable to me.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: SwedishGoose on October 20, 2017, 12:15:49 AM
Listened once on Spotify..... some cool parts but overall it feels rather  unmemorable. Also some to me rather cringe worthy moments.....
It is definitely not "The new kings of Prog", it is definiteley not "redefining prog-metal"....
Had they said we have created a good hardrock album with prog tendencies I could agree but they did not...

Agree with what a lot of others have said that the album shows a severe lack of songwriters.

Will not be buying this album. There are so many other albums that I need to get. The savings from not getting this will get good use elsewhere. For instance.... I need to get the new Myrkur album.

Not even sure if I want to listen more times to this on Spotify
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: erwinrafael on October 20, 2017, 12:22:37 AM
The best song for me is Alive. Oddly the one with no prog elements. It has good JSS vocals.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Polarbear on October 20, 2017, 12:52:46 AM
There are some good parts, and you can hear the talent in the people involved..

But still, what a colossal waste of a great lineup! I like Signs of the Time and Alive. Labyrinth was good, up until it flies of the rails halfway through!

Every solo album from Sherinian sounds better than this.

What a disappointment. I'd love to hear a Winery Dogs 3 over this. Their second album was pretty awesome!
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Kwyjibo on October 20, 2017, 01:04:07 AM
My first thoughts after hearing this record: Solid but generic.

It isn't a bad record but it isn't prog-metal and it isn't redefining anything. But that's not the problem. I think this record would work better as a pure rock record, the prog elements feel tacked on and are (mostly) not connected to the song itself. Gods Of The Sun being the prime example. You have an intro the reminds me strongly of Home and a little bit of Lines In The Sand, then they kick into a nice hard rock song. Enjoyable, even the out of the blue change to the softer section is ok, and then you have a passage which tries to emulate Metropolis' instrumental section and doesn't really fit into the song imo.

The instrumental is what I feared, apart from the beginning one or two minutes and the ending it's them trying to put as many notes as possible in seemingly random parts somehow glued together.

The rock song parts are actually quite enjoyable but have very predictable and safe melodies.

JSS is a good singer but shows very little variety in his singing, expected more from him.

Ron Thal is actually the positive surprise for me, didn't really know him before but he has some really cool solos going on.  :tup

So overall a record I like and will probably listen to a couple of time, but really nothing special.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ? on October 20, 2017, 01:27:51 AM
I have a question for those who didn't like the album all that much. Would you guys still see the band live if they came to your city?
If I was allowed in as a journalist for free, then sure. :P
The best song for me is Alive. Oddly the one with no prog elements. It has good JSS vocals.
Yeah, Alive is my favorite as well, and with the exception of God of the Sun I'd say the least proggy and more hard rock-oriented songs are actually the best.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Elite on October 20, 2017, 01:46:16 AM
quote author=Anguyen92 link=topic=50945.msg2367772#msg2367772 date=1508479594]
Things.
[/quote]

I listened to The Astonishing in the car this morning, because I bought it this week after not hearing it for over a year. I found it very enjoyable!
Oh - and Enigma Machine is actually one of the best tracks from DT12, as far as I'm concerned.

I'm not that interested in wasting my time with this SoA record, but I'll guess I'll put it on some time next week.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Madman Shepherd on October 20, 2017, 02:20:12 AM
That's kind of a weird statement to be honest.  You had preconceived notions that it would be good album.
I did? Where?



Oh really? You had absolutely no thoughts about whether it or any other album out there would be good? People buy albums based on speculation all the time. Why else would they do it? Why even click on a link to discuss your interest in an album if you are truly neutral?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: JLa on October 20, 2017, 02:30:09 AM
Didn't care for the singles. Don't care for the album.

Luckily MP has like 50 bands going on simultaneously, so there's bound to be something for me eventually.  :corn
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ganpondorodf on October 20, 2017, 02:47:29 AM
Didn't care for the singles. Don't care for the album.

Luckily MP has like 50 bands going on simultaneously, so there's bound to be something for me eventually.  :corn

Maybe if he could focus on one thing for five damn minutes he'd come up with something worth listening to
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Renzo on October 20, 2017, 03:23:53 AM
Song ranking:
1. God of the Sun
2. Opus Maximus
3. Lost in Oblivion

4. Alive
5. Labyrinth
6. Coming Home
7. Divine Addiction

8. Signs of the Time

9. Figaro's Whore (why???)

I like this album, it DOES actually sound like BC&SL and FII but I find it enjoyable. Mike and Derek are OK, Ron Thal absolutely slays in this record, Jeff's voice suites very well, I expected more from Billy Sheehan to be honest, except in Opus Maximus his bass playing doesn't exactly suites his name.

8/10

If this was a DT album I would rank it at the 9th position, ahead of TOT but just behind DT12.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: svend_inge on October 20, 2017, 04:25:12 AM
I have also received the CD and listened to it several time. I am very pleased  :). I really like it. It is, in my humble opinion, a very good album!

Song ranking:

1. God of the Sun
2. Labrinth
3. Alive

4. Opus Maximus
5. Lost in Oblivion
6. Divine Addiction

7. Signs of the Time
8. Coming Home

9. Figaro's Whore

I think it is much better than post MP Dream Theater.

Overall: 9/10
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: the_silent_man on October 20, 2017, 04:30:54 AM
Really enjoy this album. Not sure why people believed the hype of it "redefining prog" or whatever, that's just usual pre-album hype that most artists do. It's akin to metal artists saying "this is the heaviest album we've ever done". To me, it's just foolish to buy into that.

Anyway...
Great album. No, it's nothing new, but it balances prog and hard rock/metal nicely and, to be completely honest, I found it more interesting and satisfying than both DT12 and Astonishing. Vocals are good, instrumentally it's great without too much 'wank'. Love Derek's sound, brings a lot of atmosphere. There are some real standout moments on the album aswell... the incredible bass solo on Opus Maximus instantly springs to mind as one. The singles are the weakest tracks, but they work better in the context of the album.

In short, not sure what people are complaining about. Plenty of prog here with a welcome dash of hard rock/metal to give it some 'balls' (no ass though ;) ).

Highlights include:
God of the Sun
Labyrinth
Divine Addiction (deep purple? love it anyway, so catchy)
Opus Maximus
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: nobloodyname on October 20, 2017, 04:38:58 AM

No.  Some might scoff at this, but I am not a fan of giving money to scientologists.  I never buy anything with Billy Sheehan's name on it.

Fascinating.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: metrojam on October 20, 2017, 05:05:44 AM
Really enjoy this album. Not sure why people believed the hype of it "redefining prog" or whatever, that's just usual pre-album hype that most artists do. It's akin to metal artists saying "this is the heaviest album we've ever done". To me, it's just foolish to buy into that.

Anyway...
Great album. No, it's nothing new, but it balances prog and hard rock/metal nicely and, to be completely honest, I found it more interesting and satisfying than both DT12 and Astonishing. Vocals are good, instrumentally it's great without too much 'wank'. Love Derek's sound, brings a lot of atmosphere. There are some real standout moments on the album aswell... the incredible bass solo on Opus Maximus instantly springs to mind as one. The singles are the weakest tracks, but they work better in the context of the album.

In short, not sure what people are complaining about. Plenty of prog here with a welcome dash of hard rock/metal to give it some 'balls' (no ass though ;) ).

Highlights include:
God of the Sun
Labyrinth
Divine Addiction (deep purple? love it anyway, so catchy)
Opus Maximus

I agree totally with that. God of the sun is a brilliant opener and the highlight for me but there are some other good metal/prog songs throughout (apart from the totally unneccessary Figaro's Whore).
Enjoying it and think it will be one of those albums that grows on you with more listens. Don't quite understand all the negativity in here for it, but thinking again, yes I do, as its more "personal" than actual "musical" negativity, I suspect!!
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: nobloodyname on October 20, 2017, 05:19:44 AM
Far less fuss about Figaro's Whore had it simply been part of the next track rather than being split out.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Kwyjibo on October 20, 2017, 05:21:29 AM
Don't quite understand all the negativity in here for it, but thinking again, yes I do, as its more "personal" than actual "musical" negativity, I suspect!!

For sure there are people who don't like it because of the persons involved and their actions, but this goes both ways, there will be fanboys who will declare everything MP and the rest do as album of the year, no matter the actual quality. And then there are a lot of people in between.

Reading the reviews and opinions here I can't know what they are based on, so I take them for what they probably are, the opinions of someone who listened to the record and made up his own mind about it.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: metrojam on October 20, 2017, 05:39:24 AM
Don't quite understand all the negativity in here for it, but thinking again, yes I do, as its more "personal" than actual "musical" negativity, I suspect!!

For sure there are people who don't like it because of the persons involved and their actions, but this goes both ways, there will be fanboys who will declare everything MP and the rest do as album of the year, no matter the actual quality. And then there are a lot of people in between.

Reading the reviews and opinions here I can't know what they are based on, so I take them for what they probably are, the opinions of someone who listened to the record and made up his own mind about it.

Thats a very fair point. I have no axes to grind either for or against MP and DS and have listened to it with a totally open mind and I like it a lot whilst agreeing its not anywhere near up there with DT's finest moments (but i.m.o. [if that is allowed in here these days!!] its better than their last 2).
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: wolfking on October 20, 2017, 05:49:56 AM
I probably won't bother buying this, but sampled God of the Sun to see if sampling something might change that.  Nothing flash. Ron's solo was great and I didn't mind the TOT style section after that, but the song felt disjointed.  That part I just mentioned didn't work around the rest of the song, it's like two different songs.  It's like they said, "oh shit, this is just a standard hard rock song, better throw some DT stuff in there in the middle to say we are all prog and shit."
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: wolfking on October 20, 2017, 05:52:11 AM
New video;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tG7hYazcfOw

After hearing this and God of the Sun, is this album just Mike copying sections of This Dying Soul over and over?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Kwyjibo on October 20, 2017, 05:55:03 AM
I probably won't bother buying this, but sampled God of the Sun to see if sampling something might change that.  Nothing flash. Ron's solo was great and I didn't mind the TOT style section after that, but the song felt disjointed.  That part I just mentioned didn't work around the rest of the song, it's like two different songs.  It's like they said, "oh shit, this is just a standard hard rock song, better throw some DT stuff in there in the middle to say we are all prog and shit."

This is my main gripe, some of the songs just don't flow well and some of the proggier parts just feel tacked on for the sake of being proggy.

When the first two songs were released I complained and asked where the prog was. Now I think less prog would have made this record stronger as I enjoy the rocking parts much more then the proggy bits.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: wolfking on October 20, 2017, 05:57:37 AM
I probably won't bother buying this, but sampled God of the Sun to see if sampling something might change that.  Nothing flash. Ron's solo was great and I didn't mind the TOT style section after that, but the song felt disjointed.  That part I just mentioned didn't work around the rest of the song, it's like two different songs.  It's like they said, "oh shit, this is just a standard hard rock song, better throw some DT stuff in there in the middle to say we are all prog and shit."

This is my main gripe, some of the songs just don't flow well and some of the proggier parts just feel tacked on for the sake of being proggy.

When the first two songs were released I complained and asked where the prog was. Now I think less prog would have made this record stronger as I enjoy the rocking parts much more then the proggy bits.

This was evident to be before the prog section was even over, just sounds like two completely different songs altogether.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: SwedishGoose on October 20, 2017, 05:58:16 AM
Don't quite understand all the negativity in here for it, but thinking again, yes I do, as its more "personal" than actual "musical" negativity, I suspect!!

For sure there are people who don't like it because of the persons involved and their actions, but this goes both ways, there will be fanboys who will declare everything MP and the rest do as album of the year, no matter the actual quality. And then there are a lot of people in between.

Reading the reviews and opinions here I can't know what they are based on, so I take them for what they probably are, the opinions of someone who listened to the record and made up his own mind about it.

Thats a very fair point. I have no axes to grind either for or against MP and DS and have listened to it with a totally open mind and I like it a lot whilst agreeing its not anywhere near up there with DT's finest moments (but i.m.o. [if that is allowed in here these days!!] its better than their last 2).

Opinions are totally fine... glad you like it

Personally I love The Astonishing and find it to be DTs crowning achievement.
I put all three Mangini albums over the last three albums DT did with Portnoy.
I put Sons of Apollo below all albums by Dream Theater. Below the Neal Morse Band. Below Flying Colours. Below Transatlantic. Below Winery Dogs.

I think I would put it above Adrenaline Mob and Metal Allegiance but thats about it at this point.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: devieira73 on October 20, 2017, 06:06:16 AM
Just to give one more opinion about the album, I think it's excelent and rouhgly describing it, it indeed seems a cross beetwen BC&SL and FII. I do think it's well composed and arranged. By the way, I don't understand at all the argument of "there's no real songwritters in this band". From what I know, Ron, Derek, Billy and Jeff all have solo albums (from Derek and Billy I have and I think they're very good) in which they wrote almost everything on them (I only don't know if its Jeff's case). I liked a lot the production of the album, it has a good mix, clarity with heaviness and a great drum sound.
I also think that predominant style of the album is prog metal, very influenced by classic rock and some newer metal.
The only relative flaws on the album are that it is a bit safe, it lacks some "WTF" or "I never heard anything like that before" moments, but not much of a problem to me, because the music is really good; and Jeff vocal's, although very enjoyable, it seems that could have been a bit more explored in its range.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on October 20, 2017, 06:59:14 AM
New video;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tG7hYazcfOw

After hearing this and God of the Sun, is this album just Mike copying sections of This Dying Soul over and over?

It's funny how all the videos are in this same room, this time they just have some drapes and different lighting.  It feels like the guys were together for one week and threw this whole thing together.  And honestly, the album sounds that way as well.  I gave it a listen on my way in this morning.  It's not bad by any means, certainly not redefining anything either.  That's OK.   The sound kind of feels like what DT might have sounded if they continued following MP's lead.  Definitely has some BCSLness to it and more metal than prog overall, but there's no doubt after listening to the whole album that I'd consider them a prog metal band, they are.

I have two main gripes with the album and that's just that it sounds thrown together as I mentioned, there doesn't seem to be any heart or soul in the music, at least I don't sense any of that.  My other issue is JSS.  His vocals aren't cutting it for me.  I feel like he is the safe singer.  He isn't bad and he doesn't ruin the music, but he also doesn't lift it up either.  There's definitely a few awkward sounding "yea!"s throughout the album as well that just seem weird.  Fine live, but on the recording I wish it wasn't there.   Now I don't think the vocal melodies help JSS either, there's very few vocal hooks that had me wanting to sing along or come back cause it was stuck in my head (Alive may be the only one).  Now maybe this also comes back to making me feel like there is no heart/soul to this music, because I don't feel connected to the vocals.

Having gotten the negative out of the way, let's get to the positive.  The music is heavy and definitely rocking.  I think the music is mostly fantastic.  I am most impressed with Bumblefoot.  I hadn't heard any of his other music so I didn't know what to expect, but I am pleasantly surprised.  Some of his solos are really impressive and he's got some sick riffage going on in some songs.  I've always liked Billy's bass playing, but I think he takes a back seat here besides a few spots.  It works well, he's not in your face at all which I think, from reading this thread, that some people expected and would likely be turned off by.  DS also has some really cool spots and solos.  I enjoyed hearing his playing again.  MP is MP, he sounds just like I expect him to at this point of his career.  There's tons of DT like parts in the album that clearly have MP written all over it.  Stuff like that doesn't bother me as long as it sounds good.  I think it mostly does here.

Granted, I gave a good listen this morning, but it's too early to judge as a whole just yet.  But I think it's sitting around 6-7 out of 10 for me.  Musically awesome, but vocally I'm having a hard time enjoying it.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Art on October 20, 2017, 07:00:41 AM
Discounting the whole drama surrounding this band here, i like the album. It doesn't reinvent anything (and, for me, it didn't have to), but it's a nice hard-"prog"-rock record.

The only song i don't care much for is Opus Maximus, it feels kinda unnecessary.

On the first listen, JSS gives the stand-out performance here, i think he is singing very well on the album, and he is the element that brings the songs "together".

As for the musicians, Derek is playing very well, Bumblefoot surprised me, i love his tone on the album. MP is giving his standart performance, that works for me. Sheehan is more buried in the mix that i thought, which kinda works. Everybody gives good performances.

I get the later-Symphony X vibe, especially in the production.

All in all, a very fun record to listen.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Skeever on October 20, 2017, 07:06:48 AM
This sucks.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: faizoff on October 20, 2017, 07:09:43 AM
I do here shades of FII, Systematic Chaos and some BCASL. I mean Coming Home's intro sounds like an outtake of SC. I can see where everyone is coming from when they say this part reminds me of that, etc.. There are quite a few of them but I think it is hovering around 7/10 album for me. Time will tell.

Also, really don't care much for that instrumental, not feeling it at all.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Kwyjibo on October 20, 2017, 07:20:56 AM
This record could have used some breathy vocals for variety :biggrin:
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Adami on October 20, 2017, 07:23:25 AM
I listened to the samples, and did the chorus of Alive and Coming Home literally have the exact same melody/call back vocals?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: The Walrus on October 20, 2017, 07:32:49 AM
They sure do.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ariich on October 20, 2017, 07:33:11 AM
Does anyone even slightly like Figraro's Whore? It just seems so pointless. :lol
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: rumborak on October 20, 2017, 07:44:32 AM
That one has the mental nickname "Let it Rock opener" (from Slippery When Wet) for me.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Nick on October 20, 2017, 07:46:27 AM
Metal Injection review: https://www.metalinjection.net/reviews/sons-of-apollo-psychotic-symphony
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: kaos2900 on October 20, 2017, 07:47:10 AM
quote author=Anguyen92 link=topic=50945.msg2367772#msg2367772 date=1508479594]
Things.

I listened to The Astonishing in the car this morning, because I bought it this week after not hearing it for over a year. I found it very enjoyable!
Oh - and Enigma Machine is actually one of the best tracks from DT12, as far as I'm concerned.

I'm not that interested in wasting my time with this SoA record, but I'll guess I'll put it on some time next week.
[/quote]

I'm actually listening to The Astonishing for the first time in a year or so. I've cut out some tracks and the story still doesn't really work for me, but the important this is the music and vocals are superb and catchy. I still rank this in the bottom third of DT's discography, but there a ton of strong and memorable tracks on this albu.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Nekov on October 20, 2017, 07:50:57 AM
On the first listen I enjoyed this much more than I originally thought I would and that's probably becuase of JSS mostly, I really love how the guy sings.

This is my main gripe, some of the songs just don't flow well and some of the proggier parts just feel tacked on for the sake of being proggy.

I've been complaining about this for years with most of the prog bands these days and that includes Haken and DT so I'm not surprised that these guys did the same. I think there's not a lot of bands that

Does anyone even slightly like Figraro's Whore? It just seems so pointless. :lol
I don't even remember listening to it  :lol
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: kaos2900 on October 20, 2017, 07:59:40 AM
New video;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tG7hYazcfOw

After hearing this and God of the Sun, is this album just Mike copying sections of This Dying Soul over and over?

Just turned this on to give it a shot and promptly closed Youtube as soon as the vocals came in. I have no doubt that JSS is good singer but his style on these songs just sounds awful to me.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: gmillerdrake on October 20, 2017, 08:00:37 AM
I'm going to state my opinion and try not to get banned.

No need for a track by track analysis....as I suspected there are a couple riffs/moments throughout the album that sound cool but that's more or less by default given the level of talent that was in that room for a week jamming.

Outside of those few moments this is a very forgettable CD. I'll probably be fair and listen to it once more all the way through but honestly I can't see how that'd make a difference as it really is just a jam session that was recorded and mixed....and as was speculated in early pages and has been mentioned there are a TON of moments where your mind says 'oh, that sounds like ______ or ______'  It's kind of sad actually.

And to address the sentiment that DS and MP's bravado and 'promotion' of the album was just them hyping the album by stating they're the new kings of prog and they're redefining the genre.....I could dismiss it all as colorful promotion had they not continually insisted to take outright pot shots at specific members of DT. That is where it crossed the line from being 'promotion' to being outright dicks.

 And one thing I've learned from playing sports or even in the workplace....if you're going to talk sh%t and call out people you best be able to back it up. Now that the full album is released and the evidence is free for all to hear it's completely safe to say that they couldn't back up the smack talk at all. Mish mashed elements of prog and chunky rhythms in haphazard time signatures aren't redefining anything....just constitutes another swing and miss for MP. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Metro on October 20, 2017, 08:25:26 AM
I listened to the samples, and did the chorus of Alive and Coming Home literally have the exact same melody/call back vocals?

Yep.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/m6c2qtechpghyo4/Untitled.wav?dl=0
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: emtee on October 20, 2017, 08:25:56 AM
Is there a place to hear this legally before I decide to buy it?

Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: rumborak on October 20, 2017, 08:27:01 AM
Google Music has it, I assume so does Spotify.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: gmillerdrake on October 20, 2017, 08:29:38 AM
Google Music has it, I assume so does Spotify.

if you have an Apple Music account it's on there as well....
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bill1971 on October 20, 2017, 08:35:17 AM
I'm going to state my opinion and try not to get banned.

No need for a track by track analysis....as I suspected there are a couple riffs/moments throughout the album that sound cool but that's more or less by default given the level of talent that was in that room for a week jamming.

Outside of those few moments this is a very forgettable CD. I'll probably be fair and listen to it once more all the way through but honestly I can't see how that'd make a difference as it really is just a jam session that was recorded and mixed....and as was speculated in early pages and has been mentioned there are a TON of moments where your mind says 'oh, that sounds like ______ or ______'  It's kind of sad actually.

And to address the sentiment that DS and MP's bravado and 'promotion' of the album was just them hyping the album by stating they're the new kings of prog and they're redefining the genre.....I could dismiss it all as colorful promotion had they not continually insisted to take outright pot shots at specific members of DT. That is where it crossed the line from being 'promotion' to being outright dicks.

 And one thing I've learned from playing sports or even in the workplace....if you're going to talk sh%t and call out people you best be able to back it up. Now that the full album is released and the evidence is free for all to hear it's completely safe to say that they couldn't back up the smack talk at all. Mish mashed elements of prog and chunky rhythms in haphazard time signatures aren't redefining anything....just constitutes another swing and miss for MP.

You don't get banned here for criticizing MP's work. There was a place that isn't a "thing" anymore that you would.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Dreammajesty on October 20, 2017, 08:36:47 AM
i've listend to it till halfway through the fifth song and put an end to it it's boring and meh heard it all before.To me it's more Power Metal style.That's what i call it.Not my cup of tea.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Samsara on October 20, 2017, 08:40:17 AM
I bought it on Amazon, and it will be delivered today, but I got the autorip last night apparently. I am currently on my first listen, and up to Lost in Oblivion. So far, I like it. Way too early to really throw out opinions on the album. But it is what I generally expected.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Stadler on October 20, 2017, 08:48:31 AM
I'm going to state my opinion and try not to get banned.

No need for a track by track analysis....as I suspected there are a couple riffs/moments throughout the album that sound cool but that's more or less by default given the level of talent that was in that room for a week jamming.

Outside of those few moments this is a very forgettable CD. I'll probably be fair and listen to it once more all the way through but honestly I can't see how that'd make a difference as it really is just a jam session that was recorded and mixed....and as was speculated in early pages and has been mentioned there are a TON of moments where your mind says 'oh, that sounds like ______ or ______'  It's kind of sad actually.

And to address the sentiment that DS and MP's bravado and 'promotion' of the album was just them hyping the album by stating they're the new kings of prog and they're redefining the genre.....I could dismiss it all as colorful promotion had they not continually insisted to take outright pot shots at specific members of DT. That is where it crossed the line from being 'promotion' to being outright dicks.

 And one thing I've learned from playing sports or even in the workplace....if you're going to talk sh%t and call out people you best be able to back it up. Now that the full album is released and the evidence is free for all to hear it's completely safe to say that they couldn't back up the smack talk at all. Mish mashed elements of prog and chunky rhythms in haphazard time signatures aren't redefining anything....just constitutes another swing and miss for MP.

You don't get banned here for criticizing MP's work. There was a place that isn't a "thing" anymore that you would.

No, but sometimes you take a lot of stick (being called a "fan boy" comes to mind) if you deviate from the anti-Mike sentiment on certain topics.   
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: SwedishGoose on October 20, 2017, 08:53:03 AM
Would be interresting with a poll on this one....

I guess we would se some very high score, some very low and most just above the mid point
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: erwinrafael on October 20, 2017, 08:57:42 AM
I can's see how God of the Sun is a good intro when the first thing that came to kind when I heard it is "Home?"
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on October 20, 2017, 09:00:01 AM
Metal Injection review: https://www.metalinjection.net/reviews/sons-of-apollo-psychotic-symphony

Pretty much how I feel.  Been listening non stop this morning to get a better feel for the album. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Anxiety35 on October 20, 2017, 09:00:11 AM
I think it's sold, but not a release that will stand the test of time. I like how it sounds (produced, engineered). Sounds powerful. I imagine that this wold be a fun live experience in concert.

My initial thoughts.

-->MP brings nothing new in the drum department. It's the same fills and patterns he has used for years (decades even). He's good at what he does but I'd like to see him progress or bring something new to the table. However, he does play to the song which is a very valuable quality for a drummer to have.

-->JSS sounds good and he is a good singer but I'm not sure if he is the right singer for this project. Best vocal track is Divine Addiction.

-->Bumblefoot is great.

-->Sheehan is great.

-->DS brings the most color to the project. I have always loved his lead tone. He adds a lot more to the keyboard department than he did in FII. You can hear snippets of his solo work, BCC, and Planet X in this release.

As far as Figaro's Whore, I think it's meant to be an intro to Divine Addiction. Might see it that way live. Divine Addiction is the most "sounds like another band" song. Like if Deep Purple and Rainbow merged.

There were times I was thinking "this sounds like Rainbow" or "this sounds like Deep Purple" or "this has a Pink Floyd vibe" or "this sounds like Led Zeppelin" or "this sounds like Uriah Heep" and whatnot. Nothing in the music really defining the band as Sons of Apollo. The scale runs and odd time signatures are there and I like that. But I think a lot of these were thrown into the middle of songs and as a result disrupted the songs. Kinda what was happening with the last couple of DT albums with MP. Why not write a song around the odd time signatures or chord progressions? I'm not asking for a DT part 2, but prog bands have a knack for being able to do that and do it well. The guys can play and I get it.

Just write a cohesive song.

I've listened to it twice. Favorite song is God of the Sun.

6.5/10 for me.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: emtee on October 20, 2017, 09:01:01 AM
Well...God Of The Sun certainly kicks my ass!! Very cool song.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: SwedishGoose on October 20, 2017, 09:02:15 AM
Searched for reviews on progarchives... Sons of Apollo is not even listed.
Tells you something, right?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: emtee on October 20, 2017, 09:04:30 AM
Searched for reviews on progarchives... Sons of Apollo is not even listed.
Tells you something, right?

I brought this up a few days ago. There is a committee that has to approve whether a band is allowed on their
site and it seems this band does not meet their criteria.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on October 20, 2017, 09:05:02 AM
Searched for reviews on progarchives... Sons of Apollo is not even listed.
Tells you something, right?

Neither is VUUR, another debut prog metal band on the same record label.  Not sure this means anything specific to the band.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Anxiety35 on October 20, 2017, 09:08:19 AM
Searched for reviews on progarchives... Sons of Apollo is not even listed.
Tells you something, right?

Neither is VUUR, another debut prog metal band on the same record label.  Not sure this means anything specific to the band.

I wouldn't consider it prog. It's more metal/rock with prog elements thrown in. Maybe that's why?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: SwedishGoose on October 20, 2017, 09:09:56 AM
Searched for reviews on progarchives... Sons of Apollo is not even listed.
Tells you something, right?

Neither is VUUR, another debut prog metal band on the same record label.  Not sure this means anything specific to the band.

I wouldn't consider it prog. It's more metal/rock with prog elements thrown in. Maybe that's why?

I think that's spot on....
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: New World Rushman on October 20, 2017, 09:10:47 AM
Was not bowled over by the two pre-released songs, but I'm digging what I'm hearing so far on the album. I'm getting a bit of a Star One/space metal vibe (not a bad thing).
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bill1971 on October 20, 2017, 09:17:34 AM
Gods of the Sun's part towards the end sounds like Sleepy Time Gorilla Museum's Widening Eye. The four songs I've heard are not bad but nothing I would need to own. I feel like it all has a been there done that and been done better feel to it.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: JayOctavarium on October 20, 2017, 09:25:31 AM
So...

I've listened to it many times already. I like it. Do I love it? NO. Are they the #KingsOfProgMetal?  NO.  But I do like it. Hard rock with prog sprinkled in. The star of the album IMO is Bumblefoot. Totally digging his playing.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: BelichickFan on October 20, 2017, 09:31:39 AM
So happy Portnoy left if this was his vision. I appreciate everything he did with, and for, Dream Theater. But if this was "the leader's vision", then no thanks. It can't touch the artistry of DT's last three albums.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Mindflux on October 20, 2017, 09:38:02 AM
So far 1 spin through and on to the new GWAR album.   I'm enjoying the GWAR album more.

Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: faizoff on October 20, 2017, 09:48:31 AM
I think I'm liking it more now. God of the sun is definitely standing out. I think even the two singles are pretty good. Still not feeling the last three tracks.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Stadler on October 20, 2017, 09:52:03 AM
There is a committee that has to approve whether a band is allowed on their
site and it seems this band does not meet their criteria.

Is there a forum there?  I'd love to sign up and ask opinions of the "Rock and Roll Hall of Fame".   
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: nobloodyname on October 20, 2017, 09:57:26 AM
I think I'm liking it more now. God of the sun is definitely standing out. I think even the two singles are pretty good. Still not feeling the last three tracks.

God of the Sun is a monster of a tune and, for me, easily the best track of the album. I wish the rest of the album was more like it. Agree with your assessment of the last three tracks and the two singles.

Probably a 7/10 for me.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on October 20, 2017, 09:58:50 AM
I think I'm liking it more now. God of the sun is definitely standing out. I think even the two singles are pretty good. Still not feeling the last three tracks.

God of the Sun is a monster of a tune and, for me, easily the best track of the album. I wish the rest of the album was more like it. Agree with your assessment of the last three tracks and the two singles.

Probably a 7/10 for me.

Yea I think that may be my favorite track as well, from my first few listens
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: mikeyd23 on October 20, 2017, 10:05:15 AM
Made it one listen through the album on Spotify. Confirmed most of what I was thinking with the singles. It was okay, not good, not bad. Just okay.

I feel like this was a missed opportunity to a degree, but whatever. As others have said, it definitely shows that there wasn't much time spent on this. I know DS and MP talked about how quickly the album came out and everything flowed, etc.... and that's great, but it clearly shows itself as rushed at times. I think some of these songs would have greatly benefited from simply taking more time to work through arrangements, melodies, and leaving some things on the cutting room floor.

Bumblefoot plays well, Billy is Billy, Mike is Mike, Derek has a couple cool moments and Jeff feels totally underutilized.

God of the Sun is definitely my favorite track, after that it is a lot similar sounding stuff that kinda blurred together.

Definitely not buying this one.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: RoeDent on October 20, 2017, 10:05:23 AM
I know lots of artists do this pre-album hype stuff, but Portnoy (and Sherinian, so it seems) takes it waaaay over the top. And what are we expected to do if not believe them? What's the point of them even saying those things if they are essentially lies? They should get arrested under the Trades Descriptions Act or false advertising if that's the case. A simple thing like "This is the album we're most proud of" will do, but don't go with all this "redefining *genre*/*adjective*-est album ever" rubbish. It sets up expectations that will only ever lead to disappointment when the music does come along.

And yes, I know we can all ignore it, but still...why do they do it? (rhetorical)
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ariich on October 20, 2017, 10:08:09 AM
Overall I'm thinking around 7-8/10, which is a solid score and a good debut album.

I find it fascinating how the tone of what people can say about something can be so very different, yet produce similar ratings. That metal injection review was incredibly negative, but gave a 6.5/10 rating which is pretty good (what on earth do they say about 3/10 albums?). Noxon's review was medium with the odd negative leaning, and I think he gave 7/10 which is similar to me and I would consider a good score. Whereas my view is it's a good album with some great stuff and very enjoyable overall.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Adami on October 20, 2017, 10:09:23 AM
Overall I'm thinking around 7-8/10, which is a solid score and a good debut album.

I find it fascinating how the tone of what people can say about something can be so very different, yet produce similar ratings. That metal injection review was incredibly negative, but gave a 6.5/10 rating which is pretty good (what on earth do they say about 3/10 albums?). Noxon's review was medium with the odd negative leaning, and I think he gave 7/10 which is similar to me and I would consider a good score. Whereas my view is it's a good album with some great stuff and very enjoyable overall.

To be fair, 6.5 out of 10 is still a D.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ariich on October 20, 2017, 10:09:57 AM
Overall I'm thinking around 7-8/10, which is a solid score and a good debut album.

I find it fascinating how the tone of what people can say about something can be so very different, yet produce similar ratings. That metal injection review was incredibly negative, but gave a 6.5/10 rating which is pretty good (what on earth do they say about 3/10 albums?). Noxon's review was medium with the odd negative leaning, and I think he gave 7/10 which is similar to me and I would consider a good score. Whereas my view is it's a good album with some great stuff and very enjoyable overall.

To be fair, 6.5 out of 10 is still a D.
I don't know what that means.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bill1971 on October 20, 2017, 10:11:20 AM
So happy Portnoy left if this was his vision. I appreciate everything he did with, and for, Dream Theater. But if this was "the leader's vision", then no thanks. It can't touch the artistry of DT's last three albums.

Yes I 100% agree. MP may have been the supposed leader of DT but he sorely misses Petrucci and also Jordan as song writers. The playing is very good, not DT level on any instrument but very unoriginal. I actually like JSS's vocals. Gives it an 80's rock feel.  Also have a new found appreciation of Ron Thal's playing.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: rumborak on October 20, 2017, 10:11:35 AM
I would give the first 30 minutes a solid 7-8/10. It's what comes after that pulls it down towards a 5/10 for me.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Adami on October 20, 2017, 10:11:57 AM
Overall I'm thinking around 7-8/10, which is a solid score and a good debut album.

I find it fascinating how the tone of what people can say about something can be so very different, yet produce similar ratings. That metal injection review was incredibly negative, but gave a 6.5/10 rating which is pretty good (what on earth do they say about 3/10 albums?). Noxon's review was medium with the odd negative leaning, and I think he gave 7/10 which is similar to me and I would consider a good score. Whereas my view is it's a good album with some great stuff and very enjoyable overall.

To be fair, 6.5 out of 10 is still a D.
I don't know what that means.

It's a 65% technically. If I got a 65% on a test, that would be a D and would be a very bad grade. Granted it would be better than a 30%, but it's still not good. In grad school, it's failing.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ariich on October 20, 2017, 10:21:08 AM
Overall I'm thinking around 7-8/10, which is a solid score and a good debut album.

I find it fascinating how the tone of what people can say about something can be so very different, yet produce similar ratings. That metal injection review was incredibly negative, but gave a 6.5/10 rating which is pretty good (what on earth do they say about 3/10 albums?). Noxon's review was medium with the odd negative leaning, and I think he gave 7/10 which is similar to me and I would consider a good score. Whereas my view is it's a good album with some great stuff and very enjoyable overall.

To be fair, 6.5 out of 10 is still a D.
I don't know what that means.

It's a 65% technically. If I got a 65% on a test, that would be a D and would be a very bad grade. Granted it would be better than a 30%, but it's still not good. In grad school, it's failing.
Ah ok, I don't know about American grading systems. In the UK it depends on the exam - in many systems that would be the equivalent of a B.

But I'm not sure it's a very good analogy anyway as this isn't a test, it's an opinion on the quality and obviously we all have different gradings, which is what I find interesting. I consider 5/10 average, 6/10 good, 7/10 very good, 8/10 excellent, 9/10 amazing and 10/10 is reserved for only my favourite albums. Clearly others see the ratings differently.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Lethean on October 20, 2017, 10:29:11 AM
Overall I'm thinking around 7-8/10, which is a solid score and a good debut album.

I find it fascinating how the tone of what people can say about something can be so very different, yet produce similar ratings. That metal injection review was incredibly negative, but gave a 6.5/10 rating which is pretty good (what on earth do they say about 3/10 albums?). Noxon's review was medium with the odd negative leaning, and I think he gave 7/10 which is similar to me and I would consider a good score. Whereas my view is it's a good album with some great stuff and very enjoyable overall.

To be fair, 6.5 out of 10 is still a D.
I don't know what that means.

It's a 65% technically. If I got a 65% on a test, that would be a D and would be a very bad grade. Granted it would be better than a 30%, but it's still not good. In grad school, it's failing.
Ah ok, I don't know about American grading systems. In the UK it depends on the exam - in many systems that would be the equivalent of a B.

But I'm not sure it's a very good analogy anyway as this isn't a test, it's an opinion on the quality and obviously we all have different gradings, which is what I find interesting. I consider 5/10 average, 6/10 good, 7/10 very good, 8/10 excellent, 9/10 amazing and 10/10 is reserved for only my favourite albums. Clearly others see the ratings differently.

I think there are a lot of reviewers who would be reluctant to give a lower rating than 6 or 7 just because of the caliber of the players, and there certainly *is* good playing on this album. And if they feel the songs are generic or they borrow too much from other bands, it might not be an album that they enjoy or want to listen to. But they save the 2 or 3 out of 10 for something they hate or strongly dislike.

(BTW if Stadler gives you a 6.5 out of 10, he really didn't like it ;) )
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: rumborak on October 20, 2017, 10:29:53 AM
https://teamrock.com/feature/2017-10-20/sons-of-apollo-talk-us-through-their-new-album

Quote
DS: It hadn’t made a solo record in five years, so I had all this shit bursting to get out. I immediately went into the studio and started writing. I had this one piece, God Of The Sun, and I kept working it and working it, and it just turned into this 11-minute thing. [...]

MP: “That was pretty much the only existing sketch when we began the album. Everything else after that was stuff we collaborated on and worked on together.

QED. The best song on the album is the one someone actually labored over.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: King Postwhore on October 20, 2017, 10:31:28 AM
Shit bursting?  Get Derek some Imodium! Stat!
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: gzarruk on October 20, 2017, 10:50:13 AM
Metal Injection review: https://www.metalinjection.net/reviews/sons-of-apollo-psychotic-symphony

I wonder if MP will still say that all the reviewers are unanimously loving this album  :biggrin:

Or maybe Metal Injection people are just a bunch of "biased DT fanboys"  :lol
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ganpondorodf on October 20, 2017, 10:51:47 AM
SAD!
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: pcs90 on October 20, 2017, 10:54:59 AM
The one good thing about this album is it may cause me to check out more of Bumblefoot's work. As I said a few pages back he has some great solos on here. The one in Alive should be longer than it is, had a very nice vibe to it.

Everyone is hating on Figaro's Whore and in my opinion rightfully so, but why hasn't anyone mentioned that awful keyboard solo in OM? Not only is the playing boring, it even sounds a bit sloppy to me, not as in wrong notes but just the cleanness of it. Derek has two very nice Organ solos on the album (Labyrinth and Divine Addiction,) and the synth solos in God of the Sun and Alive are fine. Rest sound totally uninspired. It takes a certain amount of skill to make very technical solos interesting for me and Bumblefoot is the only one in this group who can accomplish that.

As far as the instrumental CD, I think Alive would be a nice track to practice improvising on. Would I buy the disc just for that? No. I don't think the arrangements are interesting enough for an instrumental only album, to be honest. Stems may have been cooler though.

Also, for those disappointed with JSS, I was pretty sure there was some conflict when recording between him and Derek over vocal melodies and/or arrangements, so it is possible some of the issues discussed here are not actually his fault, but Derek's. But no way to say for sure.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Nick on October 20, 2017, 10:55:40 AM
Overall I'm thinking around 7-8/10, which is a solid score and a good debut album.

I find it fascinating how the tone of what people can say about something can be so very different, yet produce similar ratings. That metal injection review was incredibly negative, but gave a 6.5/10 rating which is pretty good (what on earth do they say about 3/10 albums?). Noxon's review was medium with the odd negative leaning, and I think he gave 7/10 which is similar to me and I would consider a good score. Whereas my view is it's a good album with some great stuff and very enjoyable overall.

To be fair, 6.5 out of 10 is still a D.
I don't know what that means.

It's a 65% technically. If I got a 65% on a test, that would be a D and would be a very bad grade. Granted it would be better than a 30%, but it's still not good. In grad school, it's failing.

Yes, and this plays against a larger problem I have when reviewing things. Generally, if I'm giving an album seriously ear time and consideration, it's something I'm expected to some degree to enjoy. I can't imagine this lineup producing an album I considered a 5/10, even if I had a ton of horrible things to say about it. They are just too good and experienced I think to put out something on that level. In addition I just love music and it's hard for me to say anything with any degree of pedigree is so bad as to warrant a 5/10. It's hard to basically say you're so bad maybe music isn't your thing, which is basically what that score says.

All that being said, if a band like SoA gets a 6.5 or 7/10 I find that pretty damning given who they are. Bunch of random kids, that score can still show a lot of hope and promise. From these guys, you just need to expect better.

Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Elite on October 20, 2017, 11:01:40 AM
Metal Injection review: https://www.metalinjection.net/reviews/sons-of-apollo-psychotic-symphony

That's not positive at all
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Nick on October 20, 2017, 11:04:00 AM
I will say, I had hopes that tonight SoA and Vuur would be competing for which I enjoy more, but as I've seen reactions roll in it's more likely they'll be fighting to see which disappoints me less. I very much hope I'm wrong on that of course, but we shall see.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Podaar on October 20, 2017, 11:05:10 AM
Well, I've got two listens under my belt which has caused me to order my first Bumblefoot CD.  :lol
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: gzarruk on October 20, 2017, 11:14:07 AM
I will say, I had hopes that tonight SoA and Vuur would be competing for which I enjoy more, but as I've seen reactions roll in it's more likely they'll be fighting to see which disappoints me less. I very much hope I'm wrong on that of course, but we shall see.

I haven't listened to the whole Vuur album yet, but I can say I've enjoyed it much more than Psychotic Symphony. The mix and musicianship is amazing! My only complaint so far is that it got me a little bored after a while, that's why I didn't finish it inmediately (I'm busy with other things, though)
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Ben_Jamin on October 20, 2017, 11:15:36 AM
So a sitar automatically means its Home? Ok. I liked that intro, it fits the God of the Sun title. The dawn of the day in Egypt.

I barely started listening and so far God of The Sun is pretty good. But a lot of sudden atops and it has the A Nightmare to Remember syndrome.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Skeever on October 20, 2017, 11:17:04 AM
This is probably the least meaningful work of music I've heard all year
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: mikeyd23 on October 20, 2017, 11:17:33 AM
https://teamrock.com/feature/2017-10-20/sons-of-apollo-talk-us-through-their-new-album

Quote
DS: It hadn’t made a solo record in five years, so I had all this shit bursting to get out. I immediately went into the studio and started writing. I had this one piece, God Of The Sun, and I kept working it and working it, and it just turned into this 11-minute thing. [...]

MP: “That was pretty much the only existing sketch when we began the album. Everything else after that was stuff we collaborated on and worked on together.

QED. The best song on the album is the one someone actually labored over.

Exactly.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bill1971 on October 20, 2017, 11:18:46 AM
Metal Injection review: https://www.metalinjection.net/reviews/sons-of-apollo-psychotic-symphony

That's not positive at all

Obviously written by a DT fanboy who flips burgers as their side job.

:)
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Ben_Jamin on October 20, 2017, 11:21:37 AM
One thing that really bugs me....Billy Sheehans gritty bass tone. It works at points but Damn is it gritty. Compared to DS organ grittiness and Bumblefoots distortion.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: FlamTap on October 20, 2017, 11:28:18 AM
I hate to say this but.......YAWN. It sounds like a session of FII outtakes thrown into a blender with Symphony X. Nothing new, nothing real catchy. Oh well, just my opinion so far.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Lowdz on October 20, 2017, 11:37:01 AM
I like it.








There. I said it.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on October 20, 2017, 11:39:28 AM
I will say, I had hopes that tonight SoA and Vuur would be competing for which I enjoy more, but as I've seen reactions roll in it's more likely they'll be fighting to see which disappoints me less. I very much hope I'm wrong on that of course, but we shall see.

Damn, VUUR getting bad reviews too?  Since that is in the mail, I haven't been following today like I am SoA since I just got the digital download of that and therefore listening today.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Anguyen92 on October 20, 2017, 11:39:37 AM
I like it.








There. I said it.

And good for you, it's great that people like/love this album.  It just so happens that it's an album that people are on the fence about or just do not like after the first listen.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Mark Levinson Jr. on October 20, 2017, 11:40:57 AM
As a DT fan for 22 years, I'm amazed that I'm saying this.... but I just can't get all the way through a single track. This seems like really unauthentic music to me; rushed, forced, and trying way too hard. Like DS and MP are trying to prove something that they don't even need to prove. This is just an ugly project IMO.

But I sure agree that Bumblefoot is surprisingly interesting!
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Nick on October 20, 2017, 11:44:04 AM
I will say, I had hopes that tonight SoA and Vuur would be competing for which I enjoy more, but as I've seen reactions roll in it's more likely they'll be fighting to see which disappoints me less. I very much hope I'm wrong on that of course, but we shall see.

Damn, VUUR getting bad reviews too?  Since that is in the mail, I haven't been following today like I am SoA since I just got the digital download of that and therefore listening today.

I wouldn't say it's been getting bad reviews, I'd just say that aside from Anneke fanboys and girls nobody has made me overly excited about it.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on October 20, 2017, 11:48:53 AM
I will say, I had hopes that tonight SoA and Vuur would be competing for which I enjoy more, but as I've seen reactions roll in it's more likely they'll be fighting to see which disappoints me less. I very much hope I'm wrong on that of course, but we shall see.

Damn, VUUR getting bad reviews too?  Since that is in the mail, I haven't been following today like I am SoA since I just got the digital download of that and therefore listening today.

I wouldn't say it's been getting bad reviews, I'd just say that aside from Anneke fanboys and girls nobody has made me overly excited about it.

Yea sounds similar.  I got to say though, at the end of the day I would generally say I like Psychotic Symphony.  Even with my negative comments from my review earlier, it's far from a bad album IMO.

On another note, another band released it's debut album today, Cyhra (https://open.spotify.com/album/4N85L88CanUTGEQ3Z9UBau (https://open.spotify.com/album/4N85L88CanUTGEQ3Z9UBau)) and I must say I am digging this album from my first listen and this is the one I didn't buy  :lol (but this is not Prog so I can't quite compare it to SoA or VUUR).
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bill1971 on October 20, 2017, 11:52:12 AM
As a DT fan for 22 years, I'm amazed that I'm saying this.... but I just can't get all the way through a single track. This seems like really unauthentic music to me; rushed, forced, and trying way too hard. Like DS and MP are trying to prove something that they don't even need to prove. This is just an ugly project IMO.

But I sure agree that Bumblefoot is surprisingly interesting!

Yes, same here. Labyrinth started then after 4 minutes I had to leave my car and I really don't care to hear the rest of it, although to be fair I will listen to the end of it.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Mosh on October 20, 2017, 11:53:26 AM
Most of what I’ve heard of Anneke’s recent work (outside stuff with Devin or Luccassen) is really mediocre. So I’m not surprised to hear Vuur is getting a lukewarm response.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: The Walrus on October 20, 2017, 11:55:18 AM
I tried listening to PS again at work earlier and just got bored right away. There's a vibe to this album and I think it boils down to 'trying too hard.' To sound cool? To replicate DT-esque prog metal? To show off? Not sure. But it definitely tries too hard to do too many things.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Ben_Jamin on October 20, 2017, 11:59:14 AM
People who love generic metal will love this album. The energy is there, which will translate to an awesome live show. Which is where this band will shine.

Some songs have good ideas in them, but its not my cup of tea. JSS vocals are top notch, reminds of Shattered Skies singer. Its the gritty tone I don't really like. But then, the album cover metal color does fit that tone.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: JPX on October 20, 2017, 11:59:29 AM
I was listening to the song Breakout when he sang "Liar....those pants on fire" and I had to turn it off. I can take some bad lyrics, but those are pretty awful. And it was a prechorus or chorus, so it keeps getting repeated!

Ewwwwwwwwwwwwwww
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: RoeDent on October 20, 2017, 12:06:07 PM
It is kind of funny how they were all like "we're redefining prog" and most of the reviews have highlighted how prog-metal-by-numbers it is. Doesn't exactly feel like "redefining" to me.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on October 20, 2017, 12:09:37 PM
It is kind of funny how they were all like "we're redefining prog" and most of the reviews have highlighted how prog-metal-by-numbers it is. Doesn't exactly feel like "redefining" to me.

I feel like the expectations would have been more tame and maybe the reactions better if they had said "This is what my vision for DT would have been if I was still writing music for DT"  because that's honestly what it sounds a bit like.  Nothing redefining, nothing new, but sounds a lot like the end of MP's tenure with DT.  Raw Dog might have fit well on this album.  (and to be clear, I've always enjoyed Raw Dog for what it is and I find this album much easier to enjoy when I enjoy it for what it is, not what it was advertised as).
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bill1971 on October 20, 2017, 12:13:17 PM
Divine Addiction may be my favorite song so far. Sounds like an 80's rock song but I like the vibe .
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: gmillerdrake on October 20, 2017, 12:15:12 PM
It is kind of funny how they were all like "we're redefining prog" and most of the reviews have highlighted how prog-metal-by-numbers it is. Doesn't exactly feel like "redefining" to me.

I feel like the expectations would have been more tame and maybe the reactions better if they had said "This is what my vision for DT would have been if I was still writing music for DT"  because that's honestly what it sounds a bit like.  Nothing redefining, nothing new, but sounds a lot like the end of MP's tenure with DT.  Raw Dog might have fit well on this album.  (and to be clear, I've always enjoyed Raw Dog for what it is and I find this album much easier to enjoy when I enjoy it for what it is, not what it was advertised as).

honestly, had they just said from the get go that "hey, here's who the members are....we locked ourselves in a studio for a week....threw some songs together and had a blast. there's some prog for those of you who like prog....some rock.....a bit of something for all.....hope you all like it as we're excited about it"

simple...honest and to the point. the way DS and MP pimped this project out and handled the 'promotion' of this album really soured me personally and I have no problems admitting that has affected my listening experience towards the album. Had they been cool and humble ala JSS was in his interviews for it I'd be willing to bet I'd have received it better than I have. But, it wouldn't have dismissed the glaring issue that is these songs are just ho hum songs.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: MirrorMask on October 20, 2017, 12:23:58 PM
Imagine an alternative scenario where the album was described like this:

"Well, you know how I always had a clear direction in mind for the albums when I was in DT, and that vision clearly stopped when I left the band. I'm not gonna say that this is me picking up where I left off with DT, 'cause this is a totally different animal and I'm back with Derek and we have the unique styles of Bumblefoot, Billy and JSS joining in, but let me say that if, for whatever reason, you're one of those whi miss my contributions in DT, this is totally the album you were waiting for! and hey, I hope that even those who don't miss me may find something they like in this album 'cause we have a little bit for everyone, the prog fans and the rock fans!"

(I work as customer support so I had to learn to be as diplomatic as possible  :D )
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Metro on October 20, 2017, 12:26:11 PM
Imagine an alternative scenario where the album was described like this:

"Well, you know how I always had a clear direction in mind for the albums when I was in DT, and that vision clearly stopped when I left the band. I'm not gonna say that this is me picking up where I left off with DT, 'cause this is a totally different animal and I'm back with Derek and we have the unique styles of Bumblefoot, Billy and JSS joining in, but let me say that if, for whatever reason, you're one of those whi miss my contributions in DT, this is totally the album you were waiting for! and hey, I hope that even those who don't miss me may find something they like in this album 'cause we have a little bit for everyone, the prog fans and the rock fans!"

(I work as customer support so I had to learn to be as diplomatic as possible  :D )

Mike should hire you as his PR guy
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Herrick on October 20, 2017, 12:29:13 PM
Neal is the main songwriter, arranger, lyricist, sets vision, and so forth. It's Neal's band, not Mike's. MP simply provides his services in the drum department. I could be wrong, but I think MP longs for and thrives most in a leadership role instead of a support role.

I thought it was more of a band effort rather than another Morse solo project.

Wait, why was anyone expecting this to be redefining anything? Why would that even matter?

The more Sherinian hyped up the album, the less I believed the hype. So I wasn't massively disappointed when I heard the album. It's ok. Maybe it'll grow on Herrick.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: RoeDent on October 20, 2017, 12:32:42 PM
and that vision clearly stopped when I left the band.

I take issue with this, but it's still a more diplomatic effort than MP managed.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on October 20, 2017, 12:33:30 PM
Yea, something just more honest would have worked.  I get bands hype their latest releases and they kind of need to really, but "kings of prog" "redefining the genre" are things that are above just hyping yourself.  I've always found honestly goes a long way towards earning respect.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bill1971 on October 20, 2017, 12:49:59 PM
I think they were in need of a good PR person. Maybe say something like

"If you like generic prog metal with a mix of 80's rock, check us out!"
"If you like prog metal but it bothers you that the members don't look tough enough, check us out"
"If you think bands spend too much time crafting their songs and working them out until they feel complete, then check us out"
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Podaar on October 20, 2017, 12:51:24 PM
Well, I've got two listens under my belt which has caused me to order my first Bumblefoot CD.  :lol

Okay, three listens in and I find more to like than dislike. Strike that, I don't dislike anything about it, but there are points when I kinda zone out. I don't think I'll be purchasing the whole album, but God of the Sun, Labyrinth, and Alive belong in my library. Ron Thal is great and for the most part I enjoy JSS. Sound wise, I think it's a good recording. MP's drums sound fantastic as usual.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: gzarruk on October 20, 2017, 01:10:32 PM
I still haven't got time to post my full thoughts on the album yet, but am I the only one who thinks they missed a huge oportunity by not using Bumblefoot's voice? He has a nice voice (I find his singing more interesting than JSS) but it seems that most (if not all) of the backing vocals were done by MP  :huh:
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: rumborak on October 20, 2017, 01:32:30 PM
That is a very good point. The guy has a great singing voice and could have complemented JSS.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Podaar on October 20, 2017, 01:39:02 PM
:iagree:
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Kwyjibo on October 20, 2017, 01:41:10 PM
I like it.








There. I said it.

Even if I am critical I like this record. It could have been better had they put more effort in the writing imo, but it's a good record. Surely not album of the year material, but as of now I would rate it 7/10.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Nick on October 20, 2017, 02:20:29 PM
Well, through no fault of the band we're off on a bad start...

Opened up the CD and one of the discs is missing! I believe it's the instrumental disc at least, and I suppose I'll find out after Vuur. :lol
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Cool Chris on October 20, 2017, 02:22:41 PM
Listening on Spotify. Not much to add. Thal is the star on this album by far. Derek doesn't add anything special. I don't get caught up in drum fills and such like other people have been commenting on. Same with bass tones/playing, so don't have much to add in the drums/bass department. JSS is good, but doesn't do anything to elevate the songs to a higher level.

So yeah... Thal rocks on this.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on October 20, 2017, 02:24:42 PM
So yeah... Thal rocks on this.

That's seems to be something we all agree on  :metal
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bill1971 on October 20, 2017, 02:43:48 PM
So yeah... Thal rocks on this.

That's seems to be something we all agree on  :metal

Agreed. Ron Thal sounds very good.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Madman Shepherd on October 20, 2017, 02:46:02 PM
I won't be listening to this album for a while because I'm not buying it and I don't do spotify but I will say that Lost in Oblivion is the best of the three songs I have heard so far.  Not that it's great but it is by far the most interesting. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on October 20, 2017, 02:50:51 PM
I won't be listening to this album for a while because I'm not buying it and I don't do spotify but I will say that Lost in Oblivion is the best of the three songs I have heard so far.  Not that it's great but it is by far the most interesting.

I think that may have been a better single, it's more musically interesting and might have hit the prog fans a bit more than the other two.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: The Walrus on October 20, 2017, 03:01:59 PM
People were getting so upset over my negative review of the band on Facebook that I just removed it. There. Hopefully the sorely damaged egos of the musicians to whom my genuine criticism was directed, and the fans who were deeply offended, will heal over time...

... Sheehan's a scientologist?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: pcs90 on October 20, 2017, 03:06:58 PM
People were getting so upset over my negative review of the band on Facebook that I just removed it. There. Hopefully the sorely damaged egos of the musicians to whom my genuine criticism was directed, and the fans who were deeply offended, will heal over time...

If you posted it on a page managed by the band, I imagine it'd get deleted soon enough anyway. :lol
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on October 20, 2017, 03:10:53 PM
... Sheehan's a scientologist?

According to wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Billy_Sheehan), yes

Quote
Sheehan has been an active member of the Church of Scientology since 1971
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: rumborak on October 20, 2017, 03:14:40 PM
... Sheehan's a scientologist?

Yup. That personally has never bothered me TBH. Most artists are total space cadets.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bill1971 on October 20, 2017, 03:16:21 PM
People were getting so upset over my negative review of the band on Facebook that I just removed it. There. Hopefully the sorely damaged egos of the musicians to whom my genuine criticism was directed, and the fans who were deeply offended, will heal over time...

If you posted it on a page managed by the band, I imagine it'd get deleted soon enough anyway. :lol

Seriously, I am surprised it lasted that long.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Dave_Manchester on October 20, 2017, 03:17:07 PM
... Sheehan's a scientologist?

Part 1 of a fairly confrontational 'interview' with a (needlessly dickish, but still correct in my opinion) guy about his beliefs:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQZxv1kdrvY
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Elite on October 20, 2017, 03:27:17 PM
People were getting so upset over my negative review of the band on Facebook that I just removed it. There. Hopefully the sorely damaged egos of the musicians to whom my genuine criticism was directed, and the fans who were deeply offended, will heal over time...

What? That's actually self-censorship. Why did you write that review, if not to be written by others?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: The Walrus on October 20, 2017, 03:30:45 PM
People were getting so upset over my negative review of the band on Facebook that I just removed it. There. Hopefully the sorely damaged egos of the musicians to whom my genuine criticism was directed, and the fans who were deeply offended, will heal over time...

What? That's actually self-censorship. Why did you write that review, if not to be written by others?

'cause I got tired of people bitching about my genuine criticism about the band. I was the lone negative review getting a shitload of attention whereas the positive reviews were just there and ignored. I just figured instead of fanning the flames I'll remove it and they can continue living in a self-inflating echo chamber and I don't have to be continuously called a DT fanboy.

Also had a moment of hippie clarity. Bad juju! Bad vibes! Cleanse! Yada yada.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Anguyen92 on October 20, 2017, 03:50:13 PM
Honestly, bands' official facebook page is not really the best place for "constructive" reviews especially if there's any hint of negativity or wanting something to be improved.  I understand that bands want a good aura and positivity on their official Facebook/Twitter pages, but still, let's not act like all bands are the perfect bands (and this goes for my favorite bands as well).
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Lethean on October 20, 2017, 03:56:02 PM
People were getting so upset over my negative review of the band on Facebook that I just removed it. There. Hopefully the sorely damaged egos of the musicians to whom my genuine criticism was directed, and the fans who were deeply offended, will heal over time...

What? That's actually self-censorship. Why did you write that review, if not to be written by others?

'cause I got tired of people bitching about my genuine criticism about the band. I was the lone negative review getting a shitload of attention whereas the positive reviews were just there and ignored. I just figured instead of fanning the flames I'll remove it and they can continue living in a self-inflating echo chamber and I don't have to be continuously called a DT fanboy.

Also had a moment of hippie clarity. Bad juju! Bad vibes! Cleanse! Yada yada.

Was it something you already posted here?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Herrick on October 20, 2017, 03:57:08 PM
... Sheehan's a scientologist?

Part 1 of a fairly confrontational 'interview' with a (needlessly dickish, but still correct in my opinion) guy about his beliefs:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQZxv1kdrvY

I remember watching that some time ago. Sheehan was really cool & nice throughout the interview but I didn't believe him for a second when he said the stuff floating around on the Internet was not the Tr00 unedited stuff.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Dave_Manchester on October 20, 2017, 04:20:53 PM
I can certainly appreciate bands wanting their social media pages to be nothing but positivity, but it's then not the wisest idea for the band to boast on those same pages that the praise for the album is "unanimous". That becomes a redundant claim when you're deleting all remotely 'negative' reviews.


On the album, I'll paraphrase what I wrote in my review - I do think there is potential for this band if they decide to stick around. To me this debut album is mostly dreck, but when they slow down they are ok, and even hint at beauty. Despite my now thinking he's a tedious try-hard MP lapdog, Derek is actually the star of this album for me, he has a superb (and frustratingly brief) keyboard solo in God of the Sun, and all the decent parts of the instrumental track are down to him. He's as close as this outfit gets to an actual song-writer (the main problem for this project is that it does not have a John Petrucci or a Neal Morse, it only has virtuoso technicians, which is unimpressive in this age of children covering guys like Steve Vai and Buddy Rich on YouTube). Too often whenever these songs threaten to become natural music with tension and dynamics, a tiresome wankfest gets dumped in the middle of it all, like a parodic stereotype of 'prog metal'. God of the Sun is probably the best song here (Labyrinth is decent too), and as others have said, it's the one that Derek actually spent a lot of time on.

If they are successful enough to make them want to do a 2nd album, then there's enough in this album to convince me they can produce something decent. Derek is without doubt a talented player, and has some good musical ideas. MP doesn't push his boundaries anymore, but I don't mind that, he does what he does very well, and I still love him as a drummer. If nothing else, he always gets a lovely, crisp drum sound, to my ears. The singer is ok for this kind of thing. Maybe now they've got the yapping DT inferiority complex out of their system they can settle down and be themselves, and write music which breathes and sounds like it was composed rather than thrown together to tick a bunch of boxes.

Tracks I'll listen to again are God of the Sun, Coming Home, and Labyrinth. The rest is ersatz shit. My rating was 3/10.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Destiny Of Chaos on October 20, 2017, 04:27:23 PM
Omg God of the Sun is fan fn tastic. Mike delivers again!!
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: The Silent Cody on October 20, 2017, 04:28:50 PM
Tell me - how those Guys could put the same vocal melody in Coming Home and Alive??? If it is done in purpose, what is the point? If not by purpose but accidentaly...?If so, that is a big fail... anyway I will give this album a chance one more time, I like a few songs from it so I will try to know them better
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: KevShmev on October 20, 2017, 04:53:32 PM
As expected, some of the songs are already on YT, and if God of the Sun is the best song, like many are saying, I will have a hard time bothering with the rest. It's not a bad song, but it suffers badly from the copy and paste style of writing.  Shoot, even if the transition into the first vocal line was too herky-jerky.  And the singer's voice just does nothing for me whatsoever.  There was some good stuff in that song, but what a structural mess.  Honestly, if I had heard that song, with no knowledge of who the players were, I would have thought it was a band trying a lot to sound like Dream Theater...and coming off like a poor man's one at that.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ganpondorodf on October 20, 2017, 05:01:17 PM
Ersatz shit eh? Have we a Christgau padawan in our midst?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: The Walrus on October 20, 2017, 05:02:50 PM
People were getting so upset over my negative review of the band on Facebook that I just removed it. There. Hopefully the sorely damaged egos of the musicians to whom my genuine criticism was directed, and the fans who were deeply offended, will heal over time...

What? That's actually self-censorship. Why did you write that review, if not to be written by others?

'cause I got tired of people bitching about my genuine criticism about the band. I was the lone negative review getting a shitload of attention whereas the positive reviews were just there and ignored. I just figured instead of fanning the flames I'll remove it and they can continue living in a self-inflating echo chamber and I don't have to be continuously called a DT fanboy.

Also had a moment of hippie clarity. Bad juju! Bad vibes! Cleanse! Yada yada.

Was it something you already posted here?

No, it was wholly original for the page, but it wasn't far off the valid criticisms presented here. Lost potential with Soto, Figaro's Whore being a baffling addition, lack of soul and genuine songwriting that wasn't hurried, instrumental sections that sound smashed together for the sake of it... Made mention of how I was super excited for it but was very disappointed in the end. But I even responded individually to some of the rebuttals telling them I hoped they enjoyed it. Still got called a DT fanboy, and had no less than 3 people I believe mention how bad The Astonishing was. Oh, well.  :)

I can fully understand not wanting negative reviews on their page but oddly enough the band (Derek/MP, basically) stayed out of it entirely. It was the fans in full force attack mode. The review, actually, was up there for... quite a while. Two weeks I think. People were already reviewing how amazing the album was as far as back as mid-September, so I thought I'd chuck my two cents into the mix. Lord was that a mistake.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: twosuitsluke on October 20, 2017, 05:04:25 PM
Well I'm just finishing up my first (possibly last) listen. Everyone has said it already but that was 'ok'.

It was pretty much what I expected, it wasn't bad at all but I've just got way more to listen to that justs excites me in ways this never will...
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Lethean on October 20, 2017, 05:34:36 PM
People were getting so upset over my negative review of the band on Facebook that I just removed it. There. Hopefully the sorely damaged egos of the musicians to whom my genuine criticism was directed, and the fans who were deeply offended, will heal over time...

What? That's actually self-censorship. Why did you write that review, if not to be written by others?

'cause I got tired of people bitching about my genuine criticism about the band. I was the lone negative review getting a shitload of attention whereas the positive reviews were just there and ignored. I just figured instead of fanning the flames I'll remove it and they can continue living in a self-inflating echo chamber and I don't have to be continuously called a DT fanboy.

Also had a moment of hippie clarity. Bad juju! Bad vibes! Cleanse! Yada yada.

Was it something you already posted here?

No, it was wholly original for the page, but it wasn't far off the valid criticisms presented here. Lost potential with Soto, Figaro's Whore being a baffling addition, lack of soul and genuine songwriting that wasn't hurried, instrumental sections that sound smashed together for the sake of it... Made mention of how I was super excited for it but was very disappointed in the end. But I even responded individually to some of the rebuttals telling them I hoped they enjoyed it. Still got called a DT fanboy, and had no less than 3 people I believe mention how bad The Astonishing was. Oh, well.  :)

I can fully understand not wanting negative reviews on their page but oddly enough the band (Derek/MP, basically) stayed out of it entirely. It was the fans in full force attack mode. The review, actually, was up there for... quite a while. Two weeks I think. People were already reviewing how amazing the album was as far as back as mid-September, so I thought I'd chuck my two cents into the mix. Lord was that a mistake.

I would like to have read it.  I thought about writing one to put somewhere, but I've never written a real album review, and I think I would be bad at it.  Maybe not as bad as "Prog Nick," however.... 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Lethean on October 20, 2017, 05:37:30 PM
I still haven't got time to post my full thoughts on the album yet, but am I the only one who thinks they missed a huge oportunity by not using Bumblefoot's voice? He has a nice voice (I find his singing more interesting than JSS) but it seems that most (if not all) of the backing vocals were done by MP  :huh:
No, you're definitely not the only one.  When I found out how well he could sing I thought it would have been much better to have him do all of the backing vocals on the album, and perhaps even a few lead lines for some contrast.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: TAC on October 20, 2017, 05:45:36 PM

No, you're definitely not the only one.  When I found out how well I could sing I thought it would have been much better to have him do all of the backing vocals on the album, and perhaps even a few lead lines for some contrast.

Maybe you should've done the backing vocals. ;D
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: The Walrus on October 20, 2017, 06:02:39 PM
Haha.  Lethean, you already know what I think about the album anyway.  :biggrin:
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Lethean on October 20, 2017, 06:28:34 PM

No, you're definitely not the only one.  When I found out how well I could sing I thought it would have been much better to have him do all of the backing vocals on the album, and perhaps even a few lead lines for some contrast.

Maybe you should've done the backing vocals. ;D

Fixed it, thank you. :P  And no, I don't believe anyone would have wanted to hear that. :)
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: TAC on October 20, 2017, 06:29:23 PM
 :lol
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: erwinrafael on October 20, 2017, 09:27:15 PM
So a sitar automatically means its Home? Ok. I liked that intro, it fits the God of the Sun title. The dawn of the day in Egypt.

No,it's not just the sitar. It's the notes played and the combination of the notes. If it doesn't remind you of Home, then I don't know if it'sn willful denial or something else.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: gzarruk on October 20, 2017, 10:25:44 PM
As expected, some of the songs are already on YT, and if God of the Sun is the best song, like many are saying, I will have a hard time bothering with the rest. It's not a bad song, but it suffers badly from the copy and paste style of writing.  Shoot, even if the transition into the first vocal line was too herky-jerky.  And the singer's voice just does nothing for me whatsoever.  There was some good stuff in that song, but what a structural mess.  Honestly, if I had heard that song, with no knowledge of who the players were, I would have thought it was a band trying a lot to sound like Dream Theater...and coming off like a poor man's one at that.

The whole album suffers from that. The "prog" songs are just a disjointed wank fest mixed with old school hard rock.

I still haven't got time to post my full thoughts on the album yet, but am I the only one who thinks they missed a huge oportunity by not using Bumblefoot's voice? He has a nice voice (I find his singing more interesting than JSS) but it seems that most (if not all) of the backing vocals were done by MP  :huh:
No, you're definitely not the only one.  When I found out how well he could sing I thought it would have been much better to have him do all of the backing vocals on the album, and perhaps even a few lead lines for some contrast.

I wanted some leads too. That was, probably, my biggest disappointment with the album. Well, that and JSS... he just sang on the same range... FOR THE ENTIRE ALBUM!  :tdwn :facepalm:
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Mosh on October 20, 2017, 11:14:43 PM
Copy pasting from Maidenfans:

It's not too bad actually. First song is cool, there are some moments throughout. Songwriting isn't great but there's some really entertaining instrumental stuff. I actually kinda prefer the instrumental work on here to what DT has been doing over the past 10 years or so. That includes when Portnoy was in the band so I'm not really implying that Portnoy is the missing element, in fact it kinda feels like he phoned in the arrangement side of things despite that usually being one of his strong suits. The songs are kind of a mess structurally.

Soto sounds good but his voice can be monotonous and weak. I wish this was the project Portnoy used Russell Allen on because there are definite Symphony X vibes. Also some major obvious callbacks to FII (expected).

Love Bumblefoot's playing, although I wish he was doing more outside of his guitar solos. Doesn't seem like he found his role in the band. Still, the guitar playing is very good and there are some great solos.

Sheehan takes a major backseat. I forget he's on the album most of the time, but that's a good thing tbh. I've always felt like he approaches bass too much like a lead instrument and when you've got two really capable lead instrumentalists already, there was a risk of things being overbearing. Total opposite of Bumblefoot in that Sheehan has recognized his role in the band as rhythmic/harmonic support. He takes a necessary back seat.

Portnoy is Portnoy, his playing hasn't changed much since the 00s and he's probably the only drummer whose style I can immediately recognize (I suppose that would go for Nicko too, but he never does work outside of Maiden so it's hard to say). It's cool hearing him do the super technical stuff again though. This might sound silly, but he's been involved with so many straight forward rock projects over the past few years that I've kinda forgotten that he used to play stuff like The Dance of Eternity. Even his playing in DT was starting to become really streamlined. I know he's done stuff like PSMS but that project was short lived and I don't know if I'd call most of the Neal Morse projects technically demanding.

I really like Sherinian's playing. Getting Rudess in DT was obviously the right choice, but it's a bummer Sherinian didn't get as much time in the band and joined at a bad time. Wasn't a big fan of the hubris during the album's promotional cycle, but I thought the keyboard work was refreshing compared to DT. I preferred the more traditional patches and his playing style.

Overall, it wasn't the worst thing I've heard lately but it is kinda average prog Metal. If you like that sort of thing (and miss DS and MP playing together) there's really nothing wrong with it. I think one thing to keep in mind is that this is a new band. The musical chemistry isn't quite there yet and the songs are pretty rushed. I'd like to see a followup album cause there's some potential. Of all the Portnoy side projects, this does seem to have the most legs. Like I said, there was some more interesting instrumental work; however, DT is better at having great songwriting around the instrumentals to give them more impact. The Sons of Apollo stuff just sounds kind of contrived and pasted in there. Still, a lot of it can be fun to listen to.

BTW the drama around this release has been ridiculous and seems even sillier for an album that is, at best, only pretty good. I feel like there's a lesson in here about the internet and music, but I'm not sure what it is.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: erwinrafael on October 20, 2017, 11:20:55 PM
This has bettet instrumentals than DT for the last ten years? Even over BAI? Or ANB?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: pcs90 on October 20, 2017, 11:51:14 PM
This has bettet instrumentals than DT for the last ten years? Even over BAI? Or ANB?
Yeah, I don't get that at all...BAI and ANB are far more interesting instrumentally than the ones on this album. And if we are going for a more technical one I prefer Outcry to the ones on PS any day.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Mosh on October 20, 2017, 11:59:18 PM
Not better than everything, there have definitely been some highlights from DT. It's close but for me it really comes down to nitpicky things like types of chords used (it seems like SoA are taking a more jazz fusion approach which I prefer to DT's more classical style) and keyboard patches. Some of the odd time stuff was also exciting and more Planet X than Dream Theater, especially in the bookending epics.

One thing I also like is how spacious a lot of the solos are. Guitar solos don't have rhythm guitar tracks underneath and Derek is sticking to airy patches and long chords. Sometimes the stuff underneath JP's solos can be a little too busy for me. They were on the right track in that area with DT12 but the instrumentals on there were intentionally pretty brief and they didn't really go further with it on the next album (apart from A New Beginning).
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: erwinrafael on October 21, 2017, 12:07:16 AM
Ok, got it. I think Bumblefoot brings a lot of that fusion feel. My gripe about that it almost becomes predictable that they would slow down than Ron Thal enters with his solo. As if they can not incorporate his playing to thr wanky stuff.

The odd time stuff, I don't know if I just changed tastes but it doesn't do much for me anymore. I like it when it fits structurally and melodically to the rest of the song. In this album though, anlotnof the odd meters are like the chaotic ending of the Metropolis Pt. 1 instrumental.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: majo on October 21, 2017, 12:59:22 AM
6/10
Title: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: SwedishGoose on October 21, 2017, 01:15:00 AM
As I said in the Sons of Apollo thread I think it would be interresring to see how DTF ranks this album.

Everyone is allowed one vote but you can change it if your view of the album changes.

So vote away.....

And feel free to give your impressions too.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: SwedishGoose on October 21, 2017, 01:16:30 AM
6/10

A new poll thread started over here:

https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=51084.0

please vote there
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: Crow on October 21, 2017, 01:38:15 AM
gave it one spin. it's very meh. not interested in relistening so i'm giving the laziest possible score of 5
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: Kwyjibo on October 21, 2017, 01:44:08 AM
Good but a lot of wasted potential. 7/10.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Kwyjibo on October 21, 2017, 01:48:23 AM
Tell me - how those Guys could put the same vocal melody in Coming Home and Alive??? If it is done in purpose, what is the point? If not by purpose but accidentaly...?If so, that is a big fail... anyway I will give this album a chance one more time, I like a few songs from it so I will try to know them better

All those vocal melodies are thrown together quickly, very safe, predictable and generic like a hundred other rock songs. And when you compose like that it can happen that you repeat yourself. I don't think it's done on purpose but I wonder why they didn't hear it and therefore change it.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: SwedishGoose on October 21, 2017, 01:57:23 AM
Tell me - how those Guys could put the same vocal melody in Coming Home and Alive??? If it is done in purpose, what is the point? If not by purpose but accidentaly...?If so, that is a big fail... anyway I will give this album a chance one more time, I like a few songs from it so I will try to know them better

All those vocal melodies are thrown together quickly, very safe, predictable and generic like a hundred other rock songs. And when you compose like that it can happen that you repeat yourself. I don't think it's done on purpose but I wonder why they didn't hear it and therefore change it.

With just one week in the studio they had to rush through it and probably did not notice.
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: The Silent Cody on October 21, 2017, 02:28:52 AM
5/10
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: NoseofNicko on October 21, 2017, 02:31:48 AM
2 votes for 1/10? I don’t care for the album, but that’s just ridiculous.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Kwyjibo on October 21, 2017, 02:38:36 AM
As often stated this approach of writing in the studio and doing it in a short amount of time is really hurting these projects imo. Give the music time to develop, demo it, argue over it, add details, change melodies, chords, structures until you find nothing to improve, then go into the studio and record it.

It's good when you can come up with decent music on the spot but sometimes you gotta go the extra mile to make it special.
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: Polarbear on October 21, 2017, 02:40:34 AM
4/10

Pretty disappointed honestly..
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: SwedishGoose on October 21, 2017, 02:42:01 AM
2 votes for 1/10? I don’t care for the album, but that’s just ridiculous.

Yeah I would not put it that low. I mean it's not great but it's still better than a lot of music around.
I gave it a 6 myself.
Not sure what I would put at 1 actually.... most music (even albums from artist that I don't like) have some redeeming qualities
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: NoseofNicko on October 21, 2017, 02:44:12 AM
2 votes for 1/10? I don’t care for the album, but that’s just ridiculous.
Not sure what I would put at 1 actually.... most music (even albums from artist that I don't like) have some redeeming qualities

Yeah very few albums deserve 1/10. And this isn’t one of them.
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: majo on October 21, 2017, 02:46:21 AM
6/10
love God, Labyrinth and Lost.
won't be buying, sorry.
EDIT: haven't rated anything from DT after 6DOIT higher than this neither though  :(
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: RodrigoAltaf on October 21, 2017, 02:47:10 AM
9/10 for me. And I honestly hope those guys get the chance to record a second album and really prioritize this band.
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: Bolsters on October 21, 2017, 02:50:55 AM
I'm leaning towards 5 at the moment, but I might listen to it again before I cast my vote.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: MirrorMask on October 21, 2017, 02:53:51 AM
It's good when you can come up with decent music on the spot but sometimes you gotta go the extra mile to make it special.

Sometimes I feel that Liquid Tension Experiment was a double edged sword. It had the rightfully deserved critical acclaim, and allowed Portnoy and Petrucci to bring Jordan in DT, but it also proved that they could write awesome music in a short amount of time... and that "could" somehow translated in "should" and that was the approach for many of their following projects, especially MP's.

I've heard the album by now, I'd agree that God of the Sun is a great track - and as someone pointed out, it was the one that Derek spent more time working on. It can't be coincidence.
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: SwedishGoose on October 21, 2017, 03:03:30 AM
I'm leaning towards 5 at the moment, but I might listen to it again before I cast my vote.

You should be able to change your vote at any time...
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: Mladen on October 21, 2017, 03:38:41 AM
I'm on my second listen, it's gonna take time to rate the album. But I'm looking forward to listening to it next week.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Kwyjibo on October 21, 2017, 03:58:48 AM
But LTE was a jam band from the beginning, at least for me, and it sounded like it. It was good for what it was, but from DT, DT related bands and prog bands in general I mostly expect something more worked out and defined.

Jazz, blues and the like, music with big improvisational percentage can be created almost on the spot, it's mostly inherent in the musical style and I like a lot of it. Prog on the other hand always fascinated me because it was composed, thought and worked out, defined and not (mostly) just a band jamming away.

MP obviously thinks different about it and that's okay, but I don't have to like that approach.
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: Kwyjibo on October 21, 2017, 04:13:46 AM
A 1/10 rating for me would mean that not only the record leaves me cold but that it actually causes me pain when listening to it, not even St. Anger is that bad.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: PixelDream on October 21, 2017, 05:13:08 AM
Just heard the first two tracks from the album. It's nothing new, but I'd be lying if I didn't enjoy some balls to the wall prog metal once in a while. Enjoyable stuff.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ganpondorodf on October 21, 2017, 06:10:28 AM
Started to listen to the album again to see if I'd like it any better but half way through the first song I realised life is too short for this passionless, copy-paste landfill. Just... Really bad, and the worst crime of all: boring
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: SwedishGoose on October 21, 2017, 06:17:22 AM
Have you voted in

https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=51084.0

Rate the album from 1 to 10....
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: ganpondorodf on October 21, 2017, 06:24:07 AM
2/10, which is kind of worse than 1/10. I can get a kick out of something that's so bad it's good, but this album is just so fucking boring. If it was Lulu bad it might be kind of interesting but it just kind of exists
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: Herrick on October 21, 2017, 06:37:51 AM
I've only heard it twice and I wasn't really paying attention during that second time. My initial score would be 6.5 out of 10 but I need to listen to the album more.  So...I haven't voted yet.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: KevShmev on October 21, 2017, 06:54:36 AM
I forgot to mention this, but in that middle section of God of the Sun, when it stops and the keys come in, that is pretty much the same melody as what plays at the end of Scarface.  :lol :lol
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Hourglass Prison on October 21, 2017, 07:03:03 AM
Hey at least they’re throwing some different promotional material out there.
https://youtu.be/F5dLYIRLiXw
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: KevShmev on October 21, 2017, 07:03:45 AM
A 1/10 rating for me would mean that not only the record leaves me cold but that it actually causes me pain when listening to it, not even St. Anger is that bad.

Even though I've only heard four of the songs so far, I can't see it being a 1/10.

1/10 is saved for the truly awful, like Queensryche albums from the 00s and Kiss records.
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: Mladen on October 21, 2017, 07:05:29 AM
Yeah, everything below 5/10 looks ridiculously harsh.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ganpondorodf on October 21, 2017, 07:08:12 AM
I forgot to mention this, but in that middle section of God of the Sun, when it stops and the keys come in, that is pretty much the same melody as what plays at the end of Scarface.  :lol :lol

It made me think of Funeral for a Friend by Elton John but Scarface is a better call
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: ReaperKK on October 21, 2017, 07:09:00 AM
5/10, it really shines in spots but is largely forgettable.
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: Art on October 21, 2017, 07:11:23 AM
7/10.

Good musicianship, a lot of good ideas, but it sounds just like it was done: a buch of guys got together and wrote/recorded an album in a week. they could do a lot better if they've worked the songs a little more, IMHO.

But it's ok, a fun record, and nothing more. Very well played and produced.
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: SwedishGoose on October 21, 2017, 07:12:43 AM
Personally I am as baffled by 10/10 as by 1/10.

A perfect score would mean that it is a masterpiece. A flawless album.... and I fail to se how anyone can think of this as a masterpiece. I'm happy for those who like it though.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: KevShmev on October 21, 2017, 07:12:48 AM
Lost in Oblivion, which is probably the best song of the four I have heard this far (not saying a whole lot), also features that keyboard intro that sounds like the horn they use in The Shawshank Redemption when they realize Andy is missing. I guess movies were the inspiration corner on this. :lol :lol
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: nobloodyname on October 21, 2017, 07:18:34 AM
Personally I am as baffled by 10/10 as by 1/10.

A perfect score would mean that it is a masterpiece. A flawless album.... and I fail to se how anyone can think of this as a masterpiece. I'm happy for those who like it though.

It's all subjective, of course. Based on what you've written about The Astonishing, for example, I suspect you'd give it 10/10. I suspect, in response to that, some might say, "I fail to see how anyone can think of [The Astonishing] as a masterpiece".

Me, I gave it 7/10 although 6.5 might be more appropriate. Too great a decline in the latter third of the album.
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: SwedishGoose on October 21, 2017, 07:26:58 AM
You are right... it's all subjective. However I feel like no one can deny that the care that has gone into the songwriting in the Astonishing shows and that the jammed and stitched together "songwriting" on Psycotic Symphony shows as well.

I definitely understand how you can prefer the direction of Psycotic Symphony over Astonishing  though.

And yeah I would probably have voted 10 for Astonishing  (9,5).....
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Madman Shepherd on October 21, 2017, 07:27:39 AM
Ok so I wasn't planning on listening to anymore but came across the song Alive. My wife asked what I was listening to and I told her it was a new Mike Portnoy project. She said, "Oh. Sounds like Nickelback."

Sooooooo..... :blush
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: rumborak on October 21, 2017, 07:28:11 AM
Labyrinth starts out decent but man, it drops off a 1000ft cliff from there and drags the shattered carcass of the song across the desert floor for another 5 minutes.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Cool Chris on October 21, 2017, 07:28:50 AM
Hey at least they’re throwing some different promotional material out there.
https://youtu.be/F5dLYIRLiXw

Ah, The Evergreen State College, educating the leaders of tomorrow, in feeling good about themselves, making sure we have "safe spaces," and receiving smiley faces instead of letter grades.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: KevShmev on October 21, 2017, 07:32:00 AM
Ok so I wasn't planning on listening to anymore but came across the song Alive. My wife asked what I was listening to and I told her it was a new Mike Portnoy project. She said, "Oh. Sounds like Nickelback."

Sooooooo..... :blush

Ironically, I just listened to that song (yay for YT putting more songs up for me to listen to for free!), and I can sorta see it.  That song could have worked with, wait for it, James LaBrie as the singer, but with the guy they have, not at all.  That song needed a singer who can deliver a great melody, but Soto singing it in the same gritty voice that he used for all of the other songs by them I have thus far sucked out any melody that song might have had. That is a recurring theme I am noticing with these songs: lack of melodies to grab on to.  Some of the riffs are really good (the main one in Lost in Oblivion is really cool), and Sherinian has some nice moments, but the lack of melody is striking.
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: cramx3 on October 21, 2017, 07:34:26 AM
Gave it a 6-7 in my review yesterday, I've had a few more listens since then.  I voted 7 here.  It's really not as bad as some make it out to be, but it's not a memorable album for me.  Some awesome Bumblefoot spots that I really like, I'd say that's the best part of the album.  It's good metal and instrumentally fine, but nothing catchy and nothing memorable that makes me want to keep coming back to it.  If it weren't for the awesome music, I'd give it a 4, but they did get something right IMO.  If they spend time touring and working on new material, giving it air to breathe, there's potential for a good follow up.  We'll see.
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: Phoenix87x on October 21, 2017, 07:44:40 AM
Meh

And I was looking forward to this one too. Oh well
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Mladen on October 21, 2017, 07:54:28 AM
Labyrinth starts out decent but man, it drops off a 1000ft cliff from there and drags the shattered carcass of the song across the desert floor for another 5 minutes.
That song starts off very strong but loses me in the second half as well.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: DT2003 on October 21, 2017, 08:26:25 AM
After one listen I definitely think there’s some cool stuff on this album, but time will tell how it will hold up over time. Don’t know that it’s an album I will keep coming back to, but at the same time I really don’t get how there’s so much hate for it.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Elite on October 21, 2017, 08:31:00 AM
The ‘hate’ comes from the agressive promotional campaign, mainly because of Derek and Mike. On top of that it’s them claiming that they will ‘take back the throne of progressive metal’ and ‘redifining the genre’ and all that silly stuff. Then people listen to it and concluding that it’s merely generic progressive metal (an oxymoron, but whatever) and does nothing new whatsoever. It doesn’t live up to the self-imposed hype and feels like a dull, hastily written and altogether uninspired record.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: erwinrafael on October 21, 2017, 08:36:53 AM
Ok so I wasn't planning on listening to anymore but came across the song Alive. My wife asked what I was listening to and I told her it was a new Mike Portnoy project. She said, "Oh. Sounds like Nickelback."

Sooooooo..... :blush

So what's wrong? I think it's the best vocal performance in the record and it has grown on me a lot I think it will be on regular rotation. If they did more songs like this, which is disciplined and not trying hard to be prog, the album would be mich better.

As for Soto singing in the same range for the whole album, I would put the onus on that on the songwriters.
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: Fritzinger on October 21, 2017, 08:54:46 AM
I don't quite get that reactions here are THAT negative. Sure, MP overhyped it as per usual (Similitude was supposed to be the greatest album of his career too remember?) and Derek was being a total dick about pretty much everything everyone said ever (hope I don't get banned for this, but I just can't find any other way to phrase it), but the album is not bad at all in my opinion!

Sure, it's not the revolution they built it up to be, but it's juicy, all-American, body-builder fun-Progmetal with legs apart, and a lot of garlic, sauce and butter.
The album has a perfect sound, the best MP drum sound I have heard since FII (which btw is the best sounding DT record ever imo). If you do a little math, it has 3 prog songs that are more or less 10 mins long which already takes more than half of the album. Lost In Oblivion has a lot of proggy parts and so has Sings Of The Times. Figaros Whore (stupid name, I agree) is just an intro and I wish they would have just included it into Divine Addiction. Alive is a pop-rock ballad - but whats bad about a Creed-Nickelback ballad (Ron has played with Scott Stapp btw)? If you don't want that, go listen to Nova Collective.

I do, however, agree on the behavior of MP and especially DS online, I never thought DS was a guy like that. I always liked what he did on FII (cool jazzy approach f.e. in Lines In The Sand), but now I somehow can understand why the guys let him go. And I can't be the only one. How can Derek not see it coming, that he is just making a fool out of himself? Besides, the whole DelFuvio bulls**t sounds like DS and MP are two high school teens who think they are the coolest dudes around. They haven't done anything together since 1997 (except for maybe the PSMS stuff which for me is barely worth mentioning), they are NOT brothers, they are NOT best friends - they USED to play in the same band twenty years ago, until one kicked the other one out and now came crawling back after he got kicked out himself. And now they call them selves The DelFuvio Brothers? C'mon guys.

Besides all this childish stuff these two have been saying, I really like the music and I am trying to ignore all the aforementioned. And until now, it works. I think the album rocks, it's very cool and I think they will put on a hell of a show.

But please, Derek, shut up about Jordan and the guys. They have accomplished more than you, Jordan is the better keyboarder, get over it.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Kwyjibo on October 21, 2017, 08:58:07 AM
Ok so I wasn't planning on listening to anymore but came across the song Alive. My wife asked what I was listening to and I told her it was a new Mike Portnoy project. She said, "Oh. Sounds like Nickelback."

Sooooooo..... :blush

There's a review on a german prog board (linked some pages ago) that compares the whole thing to Nickelback, but the writer confesses that he likes Nickelback and gives a rating of 13/15 for SoA.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Fritzinger on October 21, 2017, 09:09:02 AM
Ok so I wasn't planning on listening to anymore but came across the song Alive. My wife asked what I was listening to and I told her it was a new Mike Portnoy project. She said, "Oh. Sounds like Nickelback."

Sooooooo..... :blush

There's a review on a german prog board (linked some pages ago) that compares the whole thing to Nickelback, but the writer confesses that he likes Nickelback and gives a rating of 13/15 for SoA.

I love reading that guys' reviews. His name is Nik Brückner. He says:
Quote
[...] sind die Sons of Apollo stärker auf der Seite kraftigen, verschwitzen, breitbeinigen, heterosexuellen Männerrocks. Zwar gibt es hier auch Staccatopassagen und polymetrische Parts, das Ganze ist aber weitaus saftiger, amerikanischer, kraftvoller, rockt klassischer und ist mit ordentlich Zwiebeln und BBQ-Sauce. Geil!

This translates more or less to: "the Sons Of Apollo are more on the side of strong, sweaty, legs-apart, heterosexual man-rock. There are staccato passages and polymeric parts here as well, but the whole thing is way more juicy, American, stronger, it's more in the direction of classic rock and is made with a lot of onions and BBQ-sauce. Awesome!"

I actually loved the "American-barbeque-food" comparison and used it in the other thread as well, now you reminded me where I got that thought from :D I think what Nik says is describing the album pretty well.
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: Podaar on October 21, 2017, 09:14:19 AM
Since I only bought part of the album (individual songs) and only enjoy them, not love them, I gave the album a 6 rating.
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: BelichickFan on October 21, 2017, 09:18:53 AM
I don't quite get that reactions here are THAT negative. Sure, MP overhyped it as per usual (Similitude was supposed to be the greatest album of his career too remember?) and Derek was being a total dick about pretty much everything everyone said ever (hope I don't get banned for this, but I just can't find any other way to phrase it), but the album is not bad at all in my opinion!
I kind of like it through (and including) Labyrinth.  I don't love it but I like it.  After that, though, I legitimately don't like it.  Not because of internet behavior, not because of DT vs. MP/DS, I just don't like it.
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: Lowdz on October 21, 2017, 09:33:33 AM
9

I love JSS’ voice anyway. I love the songs, though the two they released ahead of the album are probably my least favourites.
I love MP’s drumming. And it sounds great.
Bumble is a beast.
Derek’s keyboards are nice and familiar - I like that they sound like keyboards, something JR often doesn’t.
I love the Blackmore-sequel Eastern riffs and melodies.

I love shredding.

Dislikes?
I don’t particularly like low sounding guitars but hey, these days it’s prettymuch a given.
Derek and Mikes behaviour during the run up.
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: Tick on October 21, 2017, 09:39:11 AM
I've not listened yet but from what I'm reading I'm not in a big hurry to.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Sycsa on October 21, 2017, 09:43:12 AM
Well, I took the album for a few spins.

The pros:
- Derek's keyboard sounds are a rare treat. Hearing a classic Hammond & Leslie, plus real analog synths in a modern sounding metal album has been a longtime desire of mine, and the album delivers on this front. Still, it could be better, Derek distorts that organ way too much, to the point where it almost sounds "fake" (as in digital). But I'll take what I can get. 
- Some good melodies and neat moments here and there, everyone gets their chance to shine. I squeezed out some fun from every single track, except for Opus Maximus, which is a total throwaway. 

The cons:
- Without going into detail, this is basically a poor man's post-2007 Symphony X with a hard rock edge.
- I think I have MP-fatigue. The drumming is so familiar that it's a problem for me at this point. I actually realized this not while listening to PS, but when I popped in So Far Gone by The Neal Morse Band (which is a far better song than anything on PS - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rL5u8nCI8FY). MP almost ruins it with the same-y, overdone drum fills. Having an entire album filled with the same old bag of tricks is tiresome.

Some observations:
- Figaro's Whore spawned from Deep Purple's Hey Joe - https://youtu.be/DPbEXzQPYAc?t=7s. Why? I have no idea.
- Labyrinth has the ELP Fanfare for the Common Man synth at 2:30, which was a nice touch.
- Divine Addiction structurally is the exact carbon copy of Perfect Strangers, from the organ intro right to the exotic/operatic outro. Still my favorite song on the album.
- At first, God of the Sun's main riff almost sounds like it's in odd-time, but it's actually in 4/4. One of those rare riffs that can pull this off. Still comes off as a bit generic.

That's it. Maybe it will grow on me in the future, but at this point, I don't feel like revisiting it too much. No real depth, it was a rushed, phoned-in, rough-and-ready effort, and it shows. My 16-yeard-old self, who only listened to Deep Purple and ELP, would have probably loved it, but it falls short for my current self.
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: Dave_Manchester on October 21, 2017, 10:07:10 AM
Gave it a 3. A few decent moments but overall I think any collection of competent musicians could have thrown this together.

Interesting mini-discussion above about what could ever constitute a 1/10 album. I'm trying to think of an album I'd give a 1 to, but can't come up with anything. Even the worst stuff I've ever heard had something likeable about it.
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: Metro on October 21, 2017, 10:35:55 AM
5/10. I posted my review in the main thread. It has potential. It could have been a lot better if they had taken their time rather than rushing to throw this album together in 10 days. It also could benefit from an outside producer and an actual songwriter in the band.
God of the Sun and Signs of the Time are the only tracks I can see myself revisiting later on. Coming Home is still garbage. Figaro's Whore is pointless. Everything else is forgettable.
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: Schurftkut on October 21, 2017, 11:04:39 AM
5/10 for me.

For them to be a true worthy progmetal band, they'd need to utilise JSS much better, actually work on all the arrangements and add/remove stuff that makes more sense for the songs to flow nicely.
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: Renzo on October 21, 2017, 11:16:03 AM
A 1/10 rating for me would mean that not only the record leaves me cold but that it actually causes me pain when listening to it, not even St. Anger is that bad.

Even though I've only heard four of the songs so far, I can't see it being a 1/10.

1/10 is saved for the truly awful, like Queensryche albums from the 00s and Kiss records.

Or for Green Day's "Uno!" my god.. It's creeping how bad it was. IMHO
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: The Walrus on October 21, 2017, 12:09:23 PM
Massive disappointment and - just my opinion - the album where Mike has 'jumped the shark' so to speak. 3/10.
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: Crow on October 21, 2017, 12:20:14 PM
a 0/10 or 1/10 is total useless garbage like merzbow imo. or by-the-numbers pop rap. something completely devoid of artistic merit.
i also gave the new leprous a 5/10 (which really is only "average" on the overall scale of things but definitely not a good score)
this one i dunno if listening more would make me like it more but i have zero interest in listening to it again
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: The Silent Cody on October 21, 2017, 12:43:00 PM
OK, I can see similarity with Home in God Of The Sun, but in Labirynth there is a total rip off from Haken's 1985, that piano melody...
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: The Walrus on October 21, 2017, 01:00:48 PM
Not knowing a whole lot of Haken, I just checked that out. Jesus, the 1985 comparison is spot on. That's so blatant.

God of the Sun reminds me a lot of Home and a bit of Lines In The Sand too. I showed it to a friend of mine who doesn't listen to Dream Theater much but Home is his favorite song, and he was shocked at how similar they sounded.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Fritzinger on October 21, 2017, 01:29:09 PM
Not knowing a whole lot of Haken, I just checked that out. Jesus, the 1985 comparison is spot on. That's so blatant.

God of the Sun reminds me a lot of Home and a bit of Lines In The Sand too. I showed it to a friend of mine who doesn't listen to Dream Theater much but Home is his favorite song, and he was shocked at how similar they sounded.

I hope you get into Haken this way, they're absolutely awesome ;)
I noticed that too, I wonder if MP did. He's a big Haken fan.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: The Walrus on October 21, 2017, 01:33:06 PM
Not knowing a whole lot of Haken, I just checked that out. Jesus, the 1985 comparison is spot on. That's so blatant.

God of the Sun reminds me a lot of Home and a bit of Lines In The Sand too. I showed it to a friend of mine who doesn't listen to Dream Theater much but Home is his favorite song, and he was shocked at how similar they sounded.

I hope you get into Haken this way, they're absolutely awesome ;)
I noticed that too, I wonder if MP did. He's a big Haken fan.

I actually do have The Mountain. I think it's a wonderful album, although the vocals grate on me a little. But musically yeah it is fantastic. I just haven't heard the others. Too much music to catch up on. Soon. :)
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: Mosh on October 21, 2017, 01:41:48 PM
I'm feeling a 6 right now. Not amazing but not bad, some good moments throughout.
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: jakepriest on October 21, 2017, 01:48:43 PM
The first song is very good.
All the rest is more or less bad except for Signs of Time which is okayish.

4/10

Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: Mark Levinson Jr. on October 21, 2017, 02:16:00 PM
For someone new to the Progressive Metal genre, I can't think of a worse introduction.
For someone under the age of 30, I can't imagine them thinking these guys were cool, in any way.

As someone who likes also likes Prog Rock (Tull, Crimson, Yes), the whole "Van Halen swagger" thing is lost on me. Embarrassing.
Musically, it's nostalgic. The opposite of progressive.

Personally, The DT guys seem bitter, juvenile, and stuck in the past. I'll struggle my whole life to have a fraction of their money and influence. They seem to be squandering the respect they've earned. I don't understand them.

2/10

Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Fritzinger on October 21, 2017, 02:25:41 PM
Not knowing a whole lot of Haken, I just checked that out. Jesus, the 1985 comparison is spot on. That's so blatant.

God of the Sun reminds me a lot of Home and a bit of Lines In The Sand too. I showed it to a friend of mine who doesn't listen to Dream Theater much but Home is his favorite song, and he was shocked at how similar they sounded.

I hope you get into Haken this way, they're absolutely awesome ;)
I noticed that too, I wonder if MP did. He's a big Haken fan.

I actually do have The Mountain. I think it's a wonderful album, although the vocals grate on me a little. But musically yeah it is fantastic. I just haven't heard the others. Too much music to catch up on. Soon. :)

The Mountain is a fantastic album imo and my personal album 2013. Affinity takes the throne of the best Haken album for me though. Visions is less freaky and raw, has a little more Neo-Prog influences if you ask me. Aquarius is one of the greatest debut albums I have ever stumbled upon. Compared to Affinity and The Mountain it seems a bit immature but only those albums make it look like that. Standing on its own it's just outstanding.
Needless to say, Haken has become one of my favorite bands ever and in case DT call it quits in the next 10 years, I can't see anyone fill their footsteps except for those guys. NOT EVEN Portnoys new project  :rollin
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Zook on October 21, 2017, 02:34:11 PM
I haven't listened to the whole album, but after watching the video for Lost in Oblivion (which is a really good song) I still think this band would be better with Russell Allen on vocals. Not that Soto is bad, but Russell has the charm and charisma that would take SoA to the next level. They'd be Symphony X lite, but I'd certainly enjoy them more.
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: Destiny Of Chaos on October 21, 2017, 02:52:46 PM
I typically wait like 6 months before putting a rating on anything.  See how it grows on you....
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: Adami on October 21, 2017, 02:57:33 PM
First listen I gave it a 5. Just not very good. Few cool moments but just very very boring and samey.

Oddly enough Portnoy was the most boring part for me.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ErHaO on October 21, 2017, 03:10:34 PM
Listening to this album, this band is more like what I wanted/expected from Adrenaline Mob when I first heard their samples. And that mainly has to do with that every member of Sons of Apollo delivers a solid to great performance, depending on each song. Whereas Amob has guitars I don't like (in any given track), and the rest is just there (drums, bass) aside from some catchy/cool bits from Russel Allen. That said, I do like some Amob material. But this band is more interesting to listen to. The reason I state this is because many seem to be comparing these bands.

This album hits a right balance between classic rock with a modern sound and heavier parts of prog metal. I don't like the instrumental that much though, I wish they made a short one and gave us another track in the vein of Labyrinth or Gods of the Sun as a closer. But overall I dig it.

I haven't listened to the whole album, but after watching the video for Lost in Oblivion (which is a really good song) I still think this band would be better with Russell Allen on vocals. Not that Soto is bad, but Russell has the charm and charisma that would take SoA to the next level. They'd be Symphony X lite, but I'd certainly enjoy them more.

I mean, Russel Allen is one of my favourite vocalists, so he would make a lot of rock/metal albums better for my tastes. But I think Soto did a good job on this album. And having checked some of his solo material, I don't really hear that big of a difference. Sure, he could've done with more variety (like in the song Labyrinth), but I like his vocals.
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: Chris Hinton on October 21, 2017, 03:12:10 PM
Very disappointed.  I expected way more with the talent involved.  Sounds a lot like Derek playing along with Adrenaline Mob.

4/10.
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: King Postwhore on October 21, 2017, 03:22:59 PM
6/10. Average.  Nothing standing out but the vocals for me.
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: Anguyen92 on October 21, 2017, 03:26:33 PM
Yeah, I gave it a 6.  My rule of thumb is that if I added like 5 songs to my Spotify playlist and want to relisten to them at my leisure, it's an easy 7/10 which possible room to see if it aged well.  This album however.  I don't know if I do want to relisten to it.  I liked Alive.  The first track was good as well, but I felt like I honestly did not care for the album as a whole, but the playing was really good and that was just it.  Aside from Alive and maybe God of the Sun, I don't think I have the urge to relisten to this one any time soon.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Adami on October 21, 2017, 03:33:04 PM
The album is very very meh. Nothing new in the slightest bit. Song writing is mostly very bland. Oddly enough, the worst performance for me is Portnoy.

The guy wants to do a fill every 20 seconds or so, which is fine, but then he just uses the same 4 or so fills over and over. When we hear so few fills repeated so many times, it sticks out like a sore thumb.

I found myself checking out during the instrumental sections.

It feels like everyone had a "let's just get this done as quickly as possible" mentality, except Ron Thal who really deserves better than this band.
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: bl5150 on October 21, 2017, 03:49:40 PM
I gave it a 7 which is probably a little generous.  If anything I found that the proggy sections were often just "there" and detracted from the song.   I did like the classic rock vibe at times and am a big fan of a few of the band members.   However I think they are all guys who need a better songwriter working with them and when they all come together that's what I feel is lacking for the most part - memorable songs.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: jakepriest on October 21, 2017, 04:02:44 PM
except Ron Thal who really deserves better than this band.

He was definitely the best part of the band for me. He has some really tasteful solos, and the fretless guitar doesn't seem to be just a gimmick.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: The Silent Cody on October 21, 2017, 04:08:46 PM
except Ron Thal who really deserves better than this band.

He was definitely the best part of the band for me. He has some really tasteful solos, and the fretless guitar doesn't seem to be just a gimmick.
Yeah, this. His solos are mindblowng, really. Some of these seem to be just impossible to play when You hear it. I like his sound too, definitly Ron shines here the most. And about JSS, I love his voice ffrom Yngwie albums, and I love his tone but here it just... I don't know, it's like he could do very very very much more, very safe vocal parts. But still, I love his voice overall.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: nobloodyname on October 21, 2017, 04:08:56 PM
The EMP reissue of Bumblefoot's (would prefer to call him Ron Thal but this album is recorded in the name of Bumblefoot) Little Brother is Watching arrived today. I hate to say it, but it really does knock Psychotic Symphony into a cocked hat.

Ron Thal most certainly is an excellent songwriter.
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: ronnibran on October 21, 2017, 04:23:55 PM
I gave it a 4.  Decent music, but really only one song that I've gone back to  (Labyrinth).  If every song was as good as that one, it would probably be an 8. 
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: Adami on October 21, 2017, 04:26:55 PM
Thus far a little over half of the votes are for 5/10 or below, which I consider a failing score.

Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: Shadow Ninja 2.0 on October 21, 2017, 04:43:38 PM
I haven't heard the whole album so I won't vote, but while every song I've heard so far I enjoyed, at least to the extent that I don't want to turn it off, I don't really remember much about them and have no real desire to relisten.

Probably could have done with a bit more variety in the vocal melodies, but I think Jeff Scott Soto sounds fantastic anyway.

Maybe I'll give the whole album a run through soon.
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: ChuckSteak on October 21, 2017, 04:57:09 PM
I listened to it once and I liked it.

And I can guarantee one thing: if Mike hadn't been acting like he has been lately on social media, I think people would have enjoyed this album a lot more. I think they kinda developed a bias with anything related to MP, even if unconsciously.

Anyway, it is kinda early to rate the album. One listen is not enough.
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: Adami on October 21, 2017, 05:08:40 PM
I listened to it once and I liked it.

And I can guarantee one thing: if Mike hadn't been acting like he has been lately on social media, I think people would have enjoyed this album a lot more. I think they kinda developed a bias with anything related to MP, even if unconsciously.

Anyway, it is kinda early to rate the album. One listen is not enough.

I can't speak for anyone else, but not me. My score of 5/10 is 100% due to the music and not their online nonsense. They could have been saints and I'd still think this is a below mediocre album.
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: NoseofNicko on October 21, 2017, 05:20:23 PM
And I can guarantee one thing: if Mike hadn't been acting like he has been lately on social media, I think people would have enjoyed this album a lot more.

Yeah... Except no.
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: Dave_Manchester on October 21, 2017, 05:32:17 PM
Yeah, my experience of the album is separate from Derek's public display of insecurity.

I'm actually listening to the songs again now as I type this, and here is a perfect example of why I think this album is quite poor but nevertheless shows the band has potential: the section of God of the Sun from 4:55 to 6:52 is quite beautiful. I like it a lot, it's a wonderful, emotional stretch of music. But then why on earth do they abruptly end it, break out the chugging riff, and then segue awkwardly into the most generic instrumental wankery? The same thing happens 5 and a half minutes into Labyrinth. As much as I love them, this was exactly the thing I found a bit tiring about some of the later MP Dream Theater albums, where songs would be 'interrupted' in order to go on long-winded tangents.

As I wrote yesterday, I hope this band makes it to a 2nd album, and takes its time to compose it, because there are flashes of good ideas on this album but too often they get interrupted or drowned out by some apparent need to start playing lots of notes quickly.
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: bill1971 on October 21, 2017, 06:24:28 PM
I am a bit tainted by DS's silly comments and MPs pasy attitude but on the other hand I like other 3 members so tried listening with that perspective. I seen to be in the minority but I like Labrinth. I like God's of the Sun at least part of it and the Addiction song.

I agree with others that if they made this their main song writing priority they could have something special there. A lot of Talent in the band.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: gzarruk on October 21, 2017, 10:46:16 PM
I haven't listened to the whole album, but after watching the video for Lost in Oblivion (which is a really good song) I still think this band would be better with Russell Allen on vocals. Not that Soto is bad, but Russell has the charm and charisma that would take SoA to the next level. They'd be Symphony X lite, but I'd certainly enjoy them more.

On all the times I've listened to the album in full, probably 3, I've felt the same exact way. I can only imagine how much better and more diverse the vocals could've sounded with Russell singing on the album.

I agree on what most of you are saying about Bumblefoot, he's definitely the one who shines the most. About the rest:

- JSS used the same range and approach for the whole album. Not my cup of tea.
- Billy was surprisingly filling the role of a bassist and not overplaying on everything.
- Derek used the same sounds he's been using since FII and some sound very cheesy (oh, the irony...)
- MP did nothing new or creative on the drumming, same as in TSOAD.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: erwinrafael on October 21, 2017, 10:55:18 PM
If you listen to other JSS records, he usually sings with versatility. There have been talks that JSS had disagreements with DS on the vocal styles in this album. I wonder how that translated to what we hear in the album.
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: SwedishGoose on October 22, 2017, 12:11:05 AM
I gave it a score of 6/10..... that was based on the music and nothing else.
The only thing Dereks shenanigans have changed was that I did not preorder the album. Listened on Spotify instead and based on what I hear I will not buy the album.. too mediocre
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: Crow on October 22, 2017, 12:13:10 AM
I listened to it once and I liked it.

And I can guarantee one thing: if Mike hadn't been acting like he has been lately on social media, I think people would have enjoyed this album a lot more. I think they kinda developed a bias with anything related to MP, even if unconsciously.

Anyway, it is kinda early to rate the album. One listen is not enough.
i have not followed the hype or social media campaign or anything for the album. i just listened to it once when it came out and that's it
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: PetFish on October 22, 2017, 01:19:22 AM
There should be a "0" vote for those of us who refuse to listen or support it due solely to the attitudes of MP and DS.

My vote is "0".
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: SwedishGoose on October 22, 2017, 01:34:21 AM
There should be a "0" vote for those of us who refuse to listen or support it due solely to the attitudes of MP and DS.

My vote is "0".

Your wish is my command...
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: PepeLePew on October 22, 2017, 02:31:31 AM
9/10 for me. The album has exactly the right mixture of hard rock/ metal/ prog for me to enjoy it very much.
Looking forward to seeing then live (hope they will announce tour dates soon).

Also, I have to agree what others said before, I like Bumblefoot's playing a lot! Haven't heard ANY of his past material - where should I start?
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: erwinrafael on October 22, 2017, 02:47:35 AM
From the beginning. Ron Thal - the Adventures of Bumblefoot
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: Fritzinger on October 22, 2017, 03:48:36 AM
Will I be able to change my vote later? I tend to change my mind on albums after a few months.
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: MirrorMask on October 22, 2017, 03:48:45 AM
I'm actually listening to the songs again now as I type this, and here is a perfect example of why I think this album is quite poor but nevertheless shows the band has potential: the section of God of the Sun from 4:55 to 6:52 is quite beautiful. I like it a lot, it's a wonderful, emotional stretch of music. But then why on earth do they abruptly end it, break out the chugging riff, and then segue awkwardly into the most generic instrumental wankery? The same thing happens 5 and a half minutes into Labyrinth. As much as I love them, this was exactly the thing I found a bit tiring about some of the later MP Dream Theater albums, where songs would be 'interrupted' in order to go on long-winded tangents.

I'll elaborate more better after some more listenings, but I have to say I completely agree with this. That was basically the only thing I never really liked in late DT with MP; I appreciated all the songs, all the styles, even the strong influences from other bands, but I never liked the solo sections that basically take you out of the song.  I accept long instrumental passages, but they have to fit within the song, otherwise any skilled enough musician can conjure up a "prog song" by sticking a 3-4 minute jam inside a tune.

Let's take Iron Maiden's Empire of the Clouds for example - the solo section alone is 6 minutes long, longer than basically every song on the early albums except for the epics, and yet it keeps you in the song, because the continous build-up reminds you thematically of the storm that rages ever stronger against the Zeppelin that would ultimately crash. Nothing like this happens with the longest songs of the album, or happened with some of the songs in the last MP albums.
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: Lowdz on October 22, 2017, 03:55:20 AM
9/10 for me. The album has exactly the right mixture of hard rock/ metal/ prog for me to enjoy it very much.
Looking forward to seeing then live (hope they will announce tour dates soon).

Also, I have to agree what others said before, I like Bumblefoot's playing a lot! Haven't heard ANY of his past material - where should I start?

I come from an 80shard rock/metal background and I’m not much of a prog fan. Rush are about as prog as I get. I’d rather listen to Asia than Yes. This probably explains why I like it.

I have no problem with the DT like habit of veering off on an instrumental tangent,

Yeah, I like this album.

DS and MP didn’t do themselves any favours with all the rhetoric as it built up an expectation that it doesn’t meet but I’m quite happy with that because if it was an out and out progfest I’d probably hate it.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Lowdz on October 22, 2017, 04:03:43 AM
Russell Allen is great but versatile? He doesn’t show that on AMob or SymX. He would have sounded just the same as JSS does here. Just how DS and MP told him to.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Adami on October 22, 2017, 04:05:03 AM
Yea, Russell wouldn't have added much at all. Unless you think he would have re-written the vocal melodies. The problem is the vocals, not the vocalist.


Though I wasn't into Portnoy's backing vocals.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Fritzinger on October 22, 2017, 04:08:48 AM
I thought I posted this somewhere here already, but I can't find my post anywhere anymore  :huh:
Anyway: I think with Russel the album would have sounded like an Underworld ripoff. Not that they're really copying anything from SX but some hook lines and choruses remind me of the later SX albums sometimes.

(That being said, I JUST remembered how much I actually loved that album after its release, so I just ordered it on clear vinyl on eBay, thanks SoA  :biggrin: )
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: MirrorMask on October 22, 2017, 04:09:40 AM
Russell Allen is great but versatile? He doesn’t show that on AMob or SymX.

I think he showed that in Symphony X, until the band in later albums pushed the pedal on the "chugga chugga Pantera tough metal grrr" vibe. Also on his solo album he has quite some good songs in different styles.
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: PepeLePew on October 22, 2017, 05:13:06 AM
Will I be able to change my vote later? I tend to change my mind on albums after a few months.

Same here. I often find that when I like an album instantly it doesn't age as well and after multiple listens over a short time period I rarely have the urge to go back to it.  Albums that take me a little longer to get into (Similitude Of A Dream , for example) tend to stay in my rotation way longer.
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: SwedishGoose on October 22, 2017, 05:29:59 AM
You should be able to change your mund in this poll...
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: dream416 on October 22, 2017, 06:34:50 AM
This album rocks imo. Some very catchy hooks.
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: max_security on October 22, 2017, 06:44:07 AM


I come from an 80shard rock/metal background and I’m not much of a prog fan. Rush are about as prog as I get. I’d rather listen to Asia than Yes. This probably explains why I like it.

I have no problem with the DT like habit of veering off on an instrumental tangent,

Yeah, I like this album.

DS and MP didn’t do themselves any favours with all the rhetoric as it built up an expectation that it doesn’t meet but I’m quite happy with that because if it was an out and out progfest I’d probably hate it.

Instead of guitar solos and instrumental arrangements they should have incorporated some long , slow " Pink Floyd " ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh  , ( up two whole step ) , ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh. Get a muddy sounding bass with a low B ( and bury it in the mix ) , Prog ( 2017 definition )
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: Architeuthis on October 22, 2017, 07:40:32 AM
I liked it after the first spin while driving, great drum sound and overall production. I dont know if JSS's vocal range was showcased enough, I need to give it a few listens but he sounded good from what I could hear, although a bit conservative. That guitar player is a beast with great tone and skill!
DS was pretty awesome throughout, I liked the analog sound. I don't know if it was intentional, but it sounded like he gave quick little knod to BOSTON in the song Divine Addiction ( If I remember right). A snippet from the intro to Foreplay/Longtime. Anybody else catch that?.
 I also really dig the instrumental track at the end..  :metal
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: devieira73 on October 22, 2017, 07:46:23 AM
Just to say, tastes and all, but I can't believe the instrumental got little praise here. That middle section, kind of Sheehan's festival, is wonderful, sorry!
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: devieira73 on October 22, 2017, 08:05:37 AM
Also I find a bit odd that here Gods of the Sun gets so much more praises than Labyrinth. To me, they are easily at same level. I have a feel that, if the band had told that Gods.. was written in the studio and Labyrinth was composed before, with one member spending a lot more demoing it, it would the opposite apprecitation.
Also, a lot of praise to Ron's guitar work, but a lot of criticisms about the music in itself, being that a lot of it is carried by his guitar work! Just two observations...
Yes, I'm one of the few that gave 9 to the album ;D
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: Skeever on October 22, 2017, 08:12:47 AM
So DTF's opinion on Sons of Apollo, visually, is something like a Christmas Tree  :lol
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: TAC on October 22, 2017, 08:14:02 AM
I'd so much rather hear James Labrie on Labrynth.
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: gborland on October 22, 2017, 08:17:53 AM
It's brickwalled to hell. Horrible mix and mastering.
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: rumborak on October 22, 2017, 08:19:52 AM
Just to say, tastes and all, but I can't believe the instrumental got little praise here. That middle section, kind of Sheehan's festival, is wonderful, sorry!

You mean that section where Billy's muddy tone prevents you from discerning what he's actually planning?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: DT2003 on October 22, 2017, 08:32:37 AM
For me Russell Allen’s voice was perfect in the earlier Symphony X albums. I don’t enjoy his voice much in Adrenaline Mob and the later Symphony X albums.
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: devieira73 on October 22, 2017, 08:33:12 AM
Just to say, tastes and all, but I can't believe the instrumental got little praise here. That middle section, kind of Sheehan's festival, is wonderful, sorry!

You mean that section where Billy's muddy tone prevents you from discerning what he's actually planning?
:D :D yeah, that amazing section!
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: PROGdrummer on October 22, 2017, 08:49:23 AM
Can you imagine an alternate timeline where Mike's first project after leaving DT was this instead of AMob?  With Russell on vocals, Derek on keys, probaby Sheehan on bass. He might've had MacAlpine or Bumblefoot on guitar.

A new prog metal band right out of the gate with nothing to compare it to besides A Dramatic Turn of Events and then eventually Flying Colors.

Hate to say it but that would be a much nicer world. AJ Pero and Dave Z could still be here (I'm not blaming anyone for their deaths, I know that's a dark thing to say but I'm just talking hypothetically).

You think the reception to this band would be different?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Fritzinger on October 22, 2017, 08:52:24 AM
Can you imagine an alternate timeline where Mike's first project after leaving DT was this instead of AMob?  With Russell on vocals, Derek on keys, probaby Sheehan on bass. He might've had MacAlpine or Bumblefoot on guitar.

A new prog metal band right out of the gate with nothing to compare it to besides A Dramatic Turn of Events and then eventually Flying Colors.

Hate to say it but that would be a much nicer world. AJ Pero and Dave Z could still be here (I'm not blaming anyone for their deaths, I know that's a dark thing to say but I'm just talking hypothetically).

You think the reception to this band would be different?

MP & DS probably would have misbehaved even more online...
I would have loved that though! Also, we'd already have 3-4 more SoA albums by now  :biggrin:
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: SwedishGoose on October 22, 2017, 08:54:36 AM
If the music was the same I think the reception would have been the same...
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: PROGdrummer on October 22, 2017, 09:05:09 AM
If the music was the same I think the reception would have been the same...

For me, I feel like this album really just came 6 years too late. I think it would have fit into the prog-metal scene better in 2011-2012, before bands like BTBAM, Tesseract, Periphery and Animals as Leaders really started blowing up. Back then albums like Iconoclast and ADTOE were still hot.
The prog game has changed a fair bit since Mike left DT. I don't mean to imply that SOA would have gone djent by now (lol),  but I just think this album would have resonated better in the market back then.  Most of the reviews call this "outdated" and "treading old ground". 6 years ago, this album would have been striking when the iron was hot (in my opinion).
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: KevShmev on October 22, 2017, 09:18:28 AM
Were standards lower then to where this mediocre product would have been more acceptable? 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: PROGdrummer on October 22, 2017, 09:34:48 AM
Were standards lower then to where this mediocre product would have been more acceptable?

...why are you always trying to bust my balls Kev?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: The Walrus on October 22, 2017, 10:08:05 AM
I do prefer Russell to Soto immensely, but I'm also not sure he would've done much to change this. But, I do think the heavy sections would've been heavier (Russell can really 'roar' when he wants to) and that awful cringey vocal part at the beginning of Labyrinth would've been way better.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Lethean on October 22, 2017, 10:39:12 AM
Yeah, what's up with that part? I thought it sounded horrible.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Fritzinger on October 22, 2017, 10:51:07 AM
Wow, not to sound bitter.. but all the negative comments are starting to take the fun out of this album for me...  :-\ Of course it's not the masterpiece it was built up to be.. but it's not that bad either is it? You guys seem to find something bad in everything of this album...
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: MirrorMask on October 22, 2017, 10:58:43 AM
I have to agree, reading the comments I was expecting a clusterfuck of an album, but c'mon, it's good... it's more than good. All the songs are great. Of course from this to a masterpiece there's a loooooong way, but I think people may have been so put off by the online drama that they "want" to not like it (then of course some may just don't care for the drama and genuinely not liking it, of course).

All the songs are quite good and Jeff Scot Soto sings them all nicely, he's a solid singer and I think he fits the songs. I remember a comment from soneone saying that he would "space out" during the solo sections... same for me, I get lost into them, barely realizing they're going on, and then I remember I'm hearing the same song when finally Jeff starts to sing again the chorus.

I think that a different attitude during promotion and more importantly way more time spent on the songs would have made wonders for this record. And God of the Sun is a fantastic track, the true standout of the album... not a coincidence that it's the song that it took more time to work on (aside from the solo section I guess).
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: jakepriest on October 22, 2017, 11:00:22 AM
Wow, not to sound bitter.. but all the negative comments are starting to take the fun out of this album for me...  :-\ Of course it's not the masterpiece it was built up to be.. but it's not that bad either is it? You guys seem to find something bad in everything of this album...

Because it's not good.
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: MirrorMask on October 22, 2017, 11:03:15 AM
I gave it a 7, consider it a 7,5. Overall I like it, it's not a masterpiece but it's very good.

What I like:

- All the (sung) songs, basically. When it comes to the vocal lines and the choruses, there's not a single song on here that I dislike, they're all good.
- Jeff Scott Soto. Good singer, he fits the songs, and from the few interview he did, he seems like a nice and humble guy.
- I'm not too much of a musical expert to realize all the intricacies of the music, but I find nothing to complain about the musicians' performances.

The devil however is in the details, so here we go with...

What I dislike:
- God of the Sun's solo section. Too long and takes me away from the song mood.
- Coming Home's lyrics. Not a fan at all of those kind of tough guy lyrics. And what's even the sense in warning someone that they're coming home? it's a parent talking to a kid that is having a secret party?
- Signs of the Time's solo section. Too long and takes me away from the song mood.
- Labyrinth's solo section. Guess what....? yeah. Too long. Kills the mood. Starting to see a pattern here.
- All the less melodic parts of Opus Maximum.

Basically a quite strong and solid album, whose little time it had to be created influenced negatively on the cohesiveness of the longer songs. It deserved way more time spent in the studio.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Lethean on October 22, 2017, 11:03:19 AM
Yes, I do think it's that bad in general. But in my post above, what sounds horrible is the way JSS sings temptation, and whatever other word that rhymes with it.  It sounds like he just woke up and can't get his voice out yet, it sounds like his voice breaks. 
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: jakepriest on October 22, 2017, 11:19:59 AM
But... Signs of the Time's solo section is like the best part of the album. The rest of the track is rather boring.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: gzarruk on October 22, 2017, 11:37:14 AM
Russell Allen is great but versatile? He doesn’t show that on AMob or SymX. He would have sounded just the same as JSS does here. Just how DS and MP told him to.

Listen to Paradise Lost (the song) and tell me Russell is not veratile.
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: Fritzinger on October 22, 2017, 11:45:09 AM
I gave it a 7, consider it a 7,5. Overall I like it, it's not a masterpiece but it's very good.

What I like:

- All the (sung) songs, basically. When it comes to the vocal lines and the choruses, there's not a single song on here that I dislike, they're all good.
- Jeff Scott Soto. Good singer, he fits the songs, and from the few interview he did, he seems like a nice and humble guy.
- I'm not too much of a musical expert to realize all the intricacies of the music, but I find nothing to complain about the musicians' performances.

The devil however is in the details, so here we go with...

What I dislike:
- God of the Sun's solo section. Too long and takes me away from the song mood.
- Coming Home's lyrics. Not a fan at all of those kind of tough guy lyrics. And what's even the sense in warning someone that they're coming home? it's a parent talking to a kid that is having a secret party?
- Signs of the Time's solo section. Too long and takes me away from the song mood.
- Labyrinth's solo section. Guess what....? yeah. Too long. Kills the mood. Starting to see a pattern here.
- All the less melodic parts of Opus Maximum.

Basically a quite strong and solid album, whose little time it had to be created influenced negatively on the cohesiveness of the longer songs. It deserved way more time spent in the studio.

I find most of the solo sections pretty awesome!
Sounds like you want a Hardrock album, since you are criticizing all the instrumental parts  :biggrin:
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: The Walrus on October 22, 2017, 12:08:23 PM
I do think it is genuinely that bad. Just as some people thought The Astonishing was so poor they used it as a frisbee or a coaster. Okay... maybe not that petty.  :lol
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: JayOctavarium on October 22, 2017, 12:15:29 PM
Gave it a 7..would have been an 8 or a 9 if it wasnt overhyped as the reinvention of prog metal. It's good... But it's not a Dream Theater killer. It is like if Flying Colors was pushed as a DT killer. It wasn't.. We knew what to expect. Not with SOA though..
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: MirrorMask on October 22, 2017, 12:19:32 PM
Nah, I'm fine with long instrumental passages, but they have to fit with the song. I don't mind at all Metropolis' solo section for example, these ones instead feel generic enough that they could have been swapped with each other without too much difference.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ? on October 22, 2017, 12:59:32 PM
Ok so I wasn't planning on listening to anymore but came across the song Alive. My wife asked what I was listening to and I told her it was a new Mike Portnoy project. She said, "Oh. Sounds like Nickelback."

Sooooooo..... :blush
I didn't mention Nickelback in my review, but that's basically what I was thinking as well (I like the song though) :D https://www.musicalypse.net/2017-sons-of-apollo-psychotic-symphony-english/
Quote
“Alive” is a post-grunge/alternative rock-sounding melodic anthem
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: Fritzinger on October 22, 2017, 01:00:56 PM
Nah, I'm fine with long instrumental passages, but they have to fit with the song. I don't mind at all Metropolis' solo section for example, these ones instead feel generic enough that they could have been swapped with each other without too much difference.


How do you think about, let's say, Beyond This Life, Outcry or - to take a completely different example - Fading Lights by Genesis?
Not trying to annoy you here, just to understand ;)
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: ? on October 22, 2017, 01:03:45 PM
I gave it a 7 when I wrote my review (https://www.musicalypse.net/2017-sons-of-apollo-psychotic-symphony-english/), but in hindsight 6 would've been more appropriate. To put it short, I like the hard rock-style songs, but with the exception of God of the Sun the proggy stuff is pretty generic, and Soto's vocals work much better on the straight-ahead tracks. Derek and Bumblefoot do rock on the album, though. I didn't take the "redefining prog metal" marketing hype seriously, so I wasn't really let down.
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: Adami on October 22, 2017, 01:04:43 PM
Why are we already discounting negative opinions? It's very possible we just didn't like it. It doesn't mean the online drama is the reason. It doesn't mean it's because we expected X and got Y. Some of us....just....don't....like it.
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: King Postwhore on October 22, 2017, 01:06:34 PM
Who's saying that Adam? A high percentage of the reviews are average to poor at best.
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: Adami on October 22, 2017, 01:07:42 PM
Who's saying that Adam? A high percentage of the reviews are average to poor at best.

Adam? I'll just assume you're not talking to me  :P


Yes, you're right, but there are now a growing number of people (not a ton still) who are discounting people who didn't like it. I just am never a fan of discounting peoples opinions on either side.
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: King Postwhore on October 22, 2017, 01:11:58 PM
Damn auto correct.   Yeah I get you but in all mediums there are fanboys that always defend.  It sounded better today mowing the lawn but still for me, an average album.
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: Adami on October 22, 2017, 01:12:52 PM
Damn auto correct.   Yeah I get you but in all mediums there are fanboys that always defend.  It sounded better today mowing the lawn but still for me, an average album.

Oh man, I went all anti-Stadler, didn't I?


You're right boss.  :millahhhh
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: MirrorMask on October 22, 2017, 01:14:49 PM
Nah, I'm fine with long instrumental passages, but they have to fit with the song. I don't mind at all Metropolis' solo section for example, these ones instead feel generic enough that they could have been swapped with each other without too much difference.


How do you think about, let's say, Beyond This Life, Outcry or - to take a completely different example - Fading Lights by Genesis?
Not trying to annoy you here, just to understand ;)

Fine with BTS, it's long but it keeps the mood. Fine just enough with Outcry, it's outrageous but has enough cool moments. On that album I prefer Breaking All Illusions' solo section howver, that is very long but always melodic and in line with the style of the song. Don't know Fading Lights, I'll have to hear it  :D
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: King Postwhore on October 22, 2017, 01:15:25 PM
 :lol

I KNOW! I'm defending an average album. :lol

One thing nobody's talking about. How much better will the DT album sound knowing how disappointed a lot were to this album?
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: SwedishGoose on October 22, 2017, 01:15:39 PM
Could it have anything to do with the bubble that DS and MP are maintaining around this project. Deleting any negative views.... still calling it unanimously praised although there are tons of lukewarm reviews for it.

I don't think the poll here is representativ of the overall view of the album but I think it gives a more balanced view of how the prog world views the album.

The hard rock community might see it in a better light than the prog conmunity.
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: rumborak on October 22, 2017, 01:20:43 PM
Quote from: SwedishGoose

I don't think the poll here is representativ of the overall view of the album but I think it gives a more balanced view of how the prog world views the album.

The hard rock community might see it in a better light than the prog conmunity.

RYM has an average of 3.5/5. We're a bit below that with 5.4/10, but in the end both scores say the same thing: meh.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ganpondorodf on October 22, 2017, 01:22:59 PM
It's been said elsewhere by others but just having technical chops isn't all that impressive in this day and age when you can watch children on youtube play the craziest stuff without breaking a sweat. With this album you're just left with a bunch of bits that rarely, if ever, flow together. It's just constantly jarring; the occasional left turn can work well (ragtime bit in The Dance of Eternity for example) but this album always feels like throwing shit at the wall to see what sticks
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: Anguyen92 on October 22, 2017, 01:53:41 PM
I just simply did not enjoy Psycotic Symphony too much.  There were plenty of albums I heard this year, most of them which did not have the "drama" baggage that SOA had, where I went, "I heard it.  Sounds all right.  Don't know if I will listen to most of the songs again on a regular basis.  Moving on to the next album to listen to." 

Heck, Trivium released their new album on the same day and they have a fair amount of baggage (especially with their revolving door of drummers) and I enjoyed that album way more than SOA and want to relisten to the songs there again (and I'm not a fan of harsh vocals in general).

There are people that just do not simply like the SOA album, but there are people that do.  No need for people to invalidate other people's opinion of the album.
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: tristl on October 22, 2017, 03:06:25 PM
I don't know, gave it a five, listened to it two times, actually I tend more to a three.
For me it does not sound as a unit, everybody plays his stuff, on german you say,
They really tried hard but couldn't deliver(viel gewollt, nicht gekonnt).
And.  I really liked portnoys drumming in DT, the las CD where i really digged his drumming was Nightmare, his drumming would have been perfect for AS.
I will check them out live, if theey come close, but overall I am dissapointed  :tdwn
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Madman Shepherd on October 22, 2017, 03:57:57 PM
If the music was the same I think the reception would have been the same...

For me, I feel like this album really just came 6 years too late. I think it would have fit into the prog-metal scene better in 2011-2012, before bands like BTBAM, Tesseract, Periphery and Animals as Leaders really started blowing up. Back then albums like Iconoclast and ADTOE were still hot.


Kind of like AMob came 6 years too late.  Had AMob come out in 2005-2006 I think it would have made a bigger impact.  Might not have still been considered "successful" but I think might have had a few songs on the radio and had a bit longer of a shelf life. 
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: ariich on October 22, 2017, 04:04:26 PM
Quote from: SwedishGoose

I don't think the poll here is representativ of the overall view of the album but I think it gives a more balanced view of how the prog world views the album.

The hard rock community might see it in a better light than the prog conmunity.

RYM has an average of 3.5/5. We're a bit below that with 5.4/10, but in the end both scores say the same thing: meh.
3.5 stars is 7/10, which is a good rating for RYM (though only 53 ratings so far, so it's early days).

We're definitely rating it lower, on average, here, but that doesn't surprise me at all.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Lowdz on October 22, 2017, 04:05:01 PM
Russell Allen is great but versatile? He doesn’t show that on AMob or SymX. He would have sounded just the same as JSS does here. Just how DS and MP told him to.

Listen to Paradise Lost (the song) and tell me Russell is not veratile.

Yes, that’s his ballad voice. And it’s awesome.

The intro to Alive is JSS’s only real chance to sing in his. JSS is very versatile, he just isn’t given any chance to show it here.
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: rumborak on October 22, 2017, 04:22:03 PM
3.5/5 isn't the same as 7/10, since the numbering system starts from 1, not 0.
3/5 is actually exactly average, so SoA is 0.5 above that.
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: Fritzinger on October 22, 2017, 04:23:14 PM
Quote from: SwedishGoose

I don't think the poll here is representativ of the overall view of the album but I think it gives a more balanced view of how the prog world views the album.

The hard rock community might see it in a better light than the prog conmunity.

RYM has an average of 3.5/5. We're a bit below that with 5.4/10, but in the end both scores say the same thing: meh.
3.5 stars is 7/10, which is a good rating for RYM (though only 53 ratings so far, so it's early days).

We're definitely rating it lower, on average, here, but that doesn't surprise me at all.

Amazon.com has a 3,8/5 rating, german Amazon.de has an even 5/5 rating. Now I'm not "trusting" those reviews generally. The German Prog review website Babyblaue Seiten has a 12,5/15 rating, which is pretty good for this site since they're usually pretty critical (Affinity by Haken only had 10/15).
I agree, a 3,5/5 rating is NOT a bad rating. There's always people liking it and people not liking it. But I don't feel that people are rating this album bad in general, like for instance Heaven & Earth by Yes, which I think got mostly negative reviews.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: JayOctavarium on October 22, 2017, 06:06:26 PM
I honestly think that if they let JSS and Bumblefoot open up more for the second album, we have potential for a really cool album.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Adami on October 22, 2017, 06:10:59 PM
I honestly think that if they let JSS and Bumblefoot open up more for the second album, we have potential for a really cool album.

Eh, I think they let Ron open up a lot. He's a great player, but not a really strong writer. Honestly, if they stepped up the writing...A LOT...and ditched Portnoy, it could have potential. I feel like many of our complaints are the direct result of his "direction".
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: erwinrafael on October 22, 2017, 06:13:03 PM
Russell Allen is great but versatile? He doesn’t show that on AMob or SymX. He would have sounded just the same as JSS does here. Just how DS and MP told him to.

Listen to Paradise Lost (the song) and tell me Russell is not veratile.

Yes, that’s his ballad voice. And it’s awesome.

The intro to Alive is JSS’s only real chance to sing in his. JSS is very versatile, he just isn’t given any chance to show it here.

That's the reason why I find Alive as the best song in the album. It sort of showed us how good JSS is.

I honestly think that if they let JSS and Bumblefoot open up more for the second album, we have potential for a really cool album.

Eh, I think they let Ron open up a lot. He's a great player, but not a really strong writer. Honestly, if they stepped up the writing...A LOT...and ditched Portnoy, it could have potential. I feel like many of our complaints are the direct result of his "direction".

I suspect that as well because the parts I don't like remind me a lot of the drawn out sections in TDS and ANTR.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Madman Shepherd on October 22, 2017, 08:25:42 PM
For anybody that got the physical copy of the album, how are the writing credits presented?  Does God of the Sun of Derek listed as a solo contributor?  How about lyrics since Derek says he helped out with those here and there.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: SystematicThought on October 22, 2017, 08:33:28 PM
Wow, not to sound bitter.. but all the negative comments are starting to take the fun out of this album for me...  :-\ Of course it's not the masterpiece it was built up to be.. but it's not that bad either is it? You guys seem to find something bad in everything of this album...
I find it no different to how Derek took all of the excitement and fun out of the album for me with his comments throughout the pre-release and his attitude towards fans who called him out on those comments. I found it unnecessary and alienating. Others are different and can separate the man from the music, I can't.

That's why it bothers me that I find the first three minutes to God of the Sun so cool.  :lol
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: PetFish on October 22, 2017, 09:21:14 PM
There should be a "0" vote for those of us who refuse to listen or support it due solely to the attitudes of MP and DS.

My vote is "0".

Your wish is my command...

Thanks.  How do I change my vote?  I don't see that option.  I also know there are people who will check out the music but still not support the project financially but I'm probably the only one not doing either so I'll probably be the only "0".
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ? on October 23, 2017, 12:22:07 AM
For anybody that got the physical copy of the album, how are the writing credits presented?  Does God of the Sun of Derek listed as a solo contributor?  How about lyrics since Derek says he helped out with those here and there.
You can see the writing credits on Discogs: https://www.discogs.com/Sons-Of-Apollo-Psychotic-Symphony/release/11025456
Quote
LP-A1   God Of The Sun
Lyrics By – Derek Sherinian
Music By – Derek Sherinian
11:12
LP-A2   Coming Home
Lyrics By – Derek Sherinian, Jeff Scott Soto, Mike Portnoy
Music By – Derek Sherinian, Mike Portnoy, Ron Thal
4:23
LP-A3   Signs Of The Time
Lyrics By – Jeff Scott Soto
Music By – Derek Sherinian, Mike Portnoy, Ron Thal
6:43
LP-B1   Labyrinth
Lyrics By – Jeff Scott Soto
Music By – Derek Sherinian, Mike Portnoy, Ron Thal
9:23
LP-B2   Alive
Lyrics By – Jeff Scott Soto
Music By – Billy Sheehan, Derek Sherinian, Mike Portnoy, Ron Thal
5:06
LP-B3   Lost In Oblivion
Lyrics By – Derek Sherinian, Jeff Scott Soto
Music By – Derek Sherinian, Mike Portnoy, Ron Thal
4:28
LP-C1   Figaro's Whore
Music By – Derek Sherinian
1:04
LP-C2   Divine Addiction
Lyrics By – Derek Sherinian, Jeff Scott Soto
Music By – Billy Sheehan, Derek Sherinian, Mike Portnoy, Ron Thal
4:42
LP-C3   Opus Maximus
Music By – Billy Sheehan, Derek Sherinian, Mike Portnoy, Ron Thal
10:39
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: nobloodyname on October 23, 2017, 12:37:03 AM
Eh, I think they let Ron open up a lot. He's a great player, but not a really strong writer.

Little Brother is Watching would appear to indicate the opposite.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: erwinrafael on October 23, 2017, 01:02:57 AM
Billy wrote in Alive and Dvine Addiction, the songs that had the most coherence.

Billy should write more.
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: RoeDent on October 23, 2017, 01:48:04 AM
0 for me too. And it's not that I was particularly up for it either. With the exception of Flying Colors, I've not really had the urge to try anything else Portnoy's been involved with post-DT. I'll probably stick with Flying Colors though. The other guys' work on it is awesome.
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: erwinrafael on October 23, 2017, 01:51:29 AM
If you haven't listened to it, why would you rate it?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ariich on October 23, 2017, 02:45:24 AM
Eh, I think they let Ron open up a lot. He's a great player, but not a really strong writer.

Little Brother is Watching would appear to indicate the opposite.
Personally, I don't find that album especially interesting, but Normal and Abnormal are excellent (if you like quirky).
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ariich on October 23, 2017, 02:46:34 AM
Billy wrote in Alive and Dvine Addiction, the songs that had the most coherence.

Billy should write more.
I think it's probably more relevant to the fact that those are the most classic hard rock in style, rather than the coherence.
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: Fritzinger on October 23, 2017, 04:35:19 AM
If you haven't listened to it, why would you rate it?
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: MirrorMask on October 23, 2017, 04:37:04 AM
It's specifically written in the option:

Their online behaviour ruined it (won't listen)

It was added to let people voice their discontent that led them to refuse to listen to it.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: nobloodyname on October 23, 2017, 05:05:15 AM
Eh, I think they let Ron open up a lot. He's a great player, but not a really strong writer.

Little Brother is Watching would appear to indicate the opposite.
Personally, I don't find that album especially interesting, but Normal and Abnormal are excellent (if you like quirky).

Which is fine. Nothing wrong with not finding an album interesting.

I just find common criticism of an artist apparently not being a song writer to often be baseless. Who defines what a song writer is? Is it literal? Is it in the sense of a song not being memorable? Lacking a melody? A song being disjointed?

(As an aside: how many songs must a song writer write before they can be considered a song writer, eh? :lol)

It's easy, throwaway criticism. Just like people saying an album is 'shit' or 'uninspired'.
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: nobloodyname on October 23, 2017, 05:10:40 AM
So it's apparently possible to change your vote. But how do we do that, please? There doesn't seem to be any option to do so (same for a couple of others, I think).
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ReaperKK on October 23, 2017, 05:16:36 AM
It's interesting to hear what MP being charge sounds like. You get a sense of who lead the direction of DT in the later MP-DT years.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ariich on October 23, 2017, 06:08:23 AM
Eh, I think they let Ron open up a lot. He's a great player, but not a really strong writer.

Little Brother is Watching would appear to indicate the opposite.
Personally, I don't find that album especially interesting, but Normal and Abnormal are excellent (if you like quirky).

Which is fine. Nothing wrong with not finding an album interesting.

I just find common criticism of an artist apparently not being a song writer to often be baseless. Who defines what a song writer is? Is it literal? Is it in the sense of a song not being memorable? Lacking a melody? A song being disjointed?

(As an aside: how many songs must a song writer write before they can be considered a song writer, eh? :lol)

It's easy, throwaway criticism. Just like people saying an album is 'shit' or 'uninspired'.
Oh yeah, I 100% agree. It's the sort of criticism that doesn't really mean anything but gets used because for some reason people can't just say "I don't like it" or "it doesn't grab me" or whatever.
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: ariich on October 23, 2017, 06:09:52 AM
So it's apparently possible to change your vote. But how do we do that, please? There doesn't seem to be any option to do so (same for a couple of others, I think).
It wasn't possible before, but I've edited the poll to allow users to change their votes. Under the poll, hit the "Remove vote" button and you can re-vote.
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: SwedishGoose on October 23, 2017, 06:20:15 AM
So it's apparently possible to change your vote. But how do we do that, please? There doesn't seem to be any option to do so (same for a couple of others, I think).
It wasn't possible before, but I've edited the poll to allow users to change their votes. Under the poll, hit the "Remove vote" button and you can re-vote.

Thanks.... It was possible until I added the zero option I think.
Could not see the option then...
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: kaos2900 on October 23, 2017, 07:15:35 AM
I went with 0.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Adami on October 23, 2017, 07:54:08 AM
So all musicians (who write) are great song writers?

By your definition, if we're not allowed to say that the writing is bad, then you guys can't say the writing is good. If all we can say is we don't like it, then all you can is that you do like it.

Seems like a pretty boring discussion.

Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: The Silent Cody on October 23, 2017, 08:05:52 AM
C'mon, God Of The Sun is a very good song, it deserves more than 0 just by presence of this track.
  :police:
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: mikeyd23 on October 23, 2017, 08:34:20 AM
I went with a 5. For me, a 5 is a super average, forgettable album. Which is what this album was for me.
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: cramx3 on October 23, 2017, 08:36:03 AM
C'mon, God Of The Sun is a very good song, it deserves more than 0 just by presence of this track.
  :police:

Well I guess 0 means you didn't actually listen to that song, or any song.  But I think I could say the same for anyone giving it a 1.  Like, as much as someone dislikes something, how is it that bad that it gets a 1?  To me, that's like trolling the poll.  I feel like getting a 1 is harder than getting a 10.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: nobloodyname on October 23, 2017, 08:38:38 AM
Why not say why you think someone is a poor song writer? Add some colour to the discussion.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: gmillerdrake on October 23, 2017, 08:41:46 AM
Finished a second listen to the album and it's a very safe bet to say I won't actively seek out and listen to another one of those songs ever again. Too much good music out there to waste time on music that does nothing for me. It'd be beating a dead horse for me to rip on these tracks individually so I won't.....I just hope that The Neal Morse band doesn't suffer a long hiatus because Mike's on and adventure with this silly project.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: The Walrus on October 23, 2017, 08:45:14 AM
I take the 'not a songwriter' thing as... well, not literally 'can't write a song' but rather 'aren't known for writing earworms or memorable tunes.' Technical chops and flashy songs, sure, all of these guys are known for their technical prowess. But that doesn't translate to good songwriting or even good playing on record. Outside of Derek and Mike I can't tell you a single song Soto, Sheehan, or Bumblefoot are known for. Same with Derek - Lines in the Sand, okay, but that's not that big of a DT tune, and his solo stuff? Can't tell you a single 'hit' or 'definitive Sherinian solo song' and I even own two of his albums. Can't make a fair call on Mike because I own so much of his work and know every DT song, but I'd wager not many non-DT fans know exactly which songs Mike Portnoy himself wrote. Because he writes lyrics, he's not a composer.

So I don't take it literally, but rather, they're not known for writing, they're known for their skills on their given instrument. EDIT: Ugh that was a mess of a post, hope that makes sense. Need... coffee...
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: Skeever on October 23, 2017, 08:58:38 AM
Yeah, giving it a 1 is a little extreme. But if 5/10 or 6/10 is "average", I could easily score this below that. This is, at best, no more interesting than the year's run of the mill prog/rock releases.
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: SwedishGoose on October 23, 2017, 09:05:55 AM
C'mon, God Of The Sun is a very good song, it deserves more than 0 just by presence of this track.
  :police:

Zero is a special case... it's for those who won't even listen as the online shenanigans of DS and MP ruined it for them
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: Adami on October 23, 2017, 09:16:35 AM
Yeah, giving it a 1 is a little extreme. But if 5/10 or 6/10 is "average", I could easily score this below that. This is, at best, no more interesting than the year's run of the mill prog/rock releases.


Yea, I scored it 5/10 because I found it very much below average. So I guess some people might look at our poll and think that most DTFers liked the album to some degree and that only a few people didn't, which I don't think is accurate.
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: ZKX-2099 on October 23, 2017, 09:20:49 AM
I feel it's a high 7. But the lack of a full on slow ballady song bumped it to an 8.

Good fun. Will be listening to it a lot.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bosk1 on October 23, 2017, 09:29:05 AM
I was up in the mountains with my boys since Wednesday night of last week, and once we got back, I had a tough time actually tracking down a physical copy of the album in my local record shops, so I am a bit late getting this album. 

My reaction after one listen (and in the middle of my second):  Wow.  I like this a lot more than I was expecting.  Part of that is due to the fact that the album seems to have gotten somewhat of a lukewarm response from more if its "built-in" fanbase than probably expected.  Part of it is Derek's and Mike's online conduct souring some fans on the album before we even got to hear it.  And part of it is simply that, while the album has many moments that may not be what fans like me were expecting, it's just a flat-out good album. 

God of the Sun is an interesting choice to start off the album.  It is a risky choice for several reasons.  It opens with a sitar and keyboard intro that are reminiscent of both Home and Lines in the Sand.  It tries very hard to be an epic album opener.  And that alone is a risky move.  Is it epic or is it cliché?  I'm not really sure.  Perhaps a bit of both.  But I think it mostly works.  And as the song progresses, I find myself asking that same question several times, whether it be in connection with the instrumental section, the abrupt transitions between disparate segments of the song, or other things.  But I keep arriving back at the same answer:  maybe a bit of both, but I think it mostly works.

For those that heard the two promo tracks (can we even really call songs "singles" anymore?), we are in familiar territory for the next two songs.  I liked both of them initially anyway, but it was nice to get to crank them on a good system and really hear them.  But I was also anxious to get past them and really see what the album had to offer that I hadn't heard yet.  And, to me, the big payoff on this album was yet to arrive.

Labrynth REALLY had some cool moments, and I felt like the album was really starting to hit its stride with this song.  I think those expecting big, "proggy" epics should feel like their needs were catered to with God of the Sun and Labrynth.  And I was staring to feel at this point in the album that, despite it maybe feeling a bit clichéd at the outset, there was definitely sufficient variety and depth to give this album its own identity and credibility rather than it simply being sort of a "progressive metal-by-numbers" album, as some fans feared it would be.  But it is really the three more "straightforward" tracks that came next, Alive, Lost in Oblivion, and Divine Addiction, where the album really takes off for me.  Prior to that, although I was liking the album, one thing that I felt was a bit lacking was a dearth of fun, memorable riffs.  These last few songs bring that, as well as melody, hooks, and just fun songwriting.  Divine Addiction in particular, with its obvious nods to Deep Purple, is incredibly catchy and is a cool "false ending" to the album before wrapping it up with the big instrumental.

As far as the individual member playing and contributions, I think everybody does a pretty solid job.  There are definitely times when I feel like Derek's keyboards are too upfront and flamboyant.  But, hey, it's prog metal.  Really, I feel like each member brings something good to the table and does a nice job on this album.  There is a lot of variety here, and each one of the guys shows he is more than capable of doing a fine job of being bombastic, subtle, or whatever else the music requires of him in the moment.

Overall, I think this is a pretty strong debut.  There is definitely room to improve.  And as these guys spend time touring and writing more together, I fully expect that they will become tighter and more cohesive.  But this is a solid album, and I am pretty happy with it.  Initial impression:  8/10
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: erwinrafael on October 23, 2017, 09:33:22 AM
Billy wrote in Alive and Dvine Addiction, the songs that had the most coherence.

Billy should write more.
I think it's probably more relevant to the fact that those are the most classic hard rock in style, rather than the coherence.

Or maybe they write more coherent tunes when they do more straightforward rock than prog, so they should stick to that.

Alive still in constant rotation in my playlist.
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: bosk1 on October 23, 2017, 09:34:37 AM
I liked the two promo tracks.  I thought they were "very good," but perhaps not great.  From what I had read, I assumed there was a SEVERE dropoff from those two tracks.  That, and Mike's and Derek's online behavior, had me expecting this to be a "low 7" or a 6.  After two listens, I give it a solid 8/10 and am pretty happy with it.  Full review here:  https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=50945.msg2369087#msg2369087

Overall, this exceeded expectations for me.  It's a shame that Mike and Derek shot themselves in the foot by pissing of a segment of their built-in fanbase who either won't give this a chance or whose opinions will be tainted because of the way those two have acted in the lead-up to the album's release.  Really bad move on their parts.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bosk1 on October 23, 2017, 09:37:10 AM
Billy wrote in Alive and Dvine Addiction, the songs that had the most coherence.

Billy should write more.
I think it's probably more relevant to the fact that those are the most classic hard rock in style, rather than the coherence.

Or maybe they write more coherent tunes when they do more straightforward rock than prog, so they should stick to that.

Alive still in constant rotation in my playlist.

Alive is great.  I agree that the more "straightforward" songs are where these guys shine.  But the less conventional songs are still pretty solid and provide a nice variety on the album, IMO.  I'm glad they didn't put themselves in a particular box and just stick to one main type of song structure.

I take the 'not a songwriter' thing as... well, not literally 'can't write a song' but rather 'aren't known for writing earworms or memorable tunes.' Technical chops and flashy songs, sure, all of these guys are known for their technical prowess. But that doesn't translate to good songwriting or even good playing on record. Outside of Derek and Mike I can't tell you a single song Soto, Sheehan, or Bumblefoot are known for. Same with Derek - Lines in the Sand, okay, but that's not that big of a DT tune, and his solo stuff? Can't tell you a single 'hit' or 'definitive Sherinian solo song' and I even own two of his albums. Can't make a fair call on Mike because I own so much of his work and know every DT song, but I'd wager not many non-DT fans know exactly which songs Mike Portnoy himself wrote. Because he writes lyrics, he's not a composer.

So I don't take it literally, but rather, they're not known for writing, they're known for their skills on their given instrument. EDIT: Ugh that was a mess of a post, hope that makes sense. Need... coffee...

I get what you are saying, Kattelox.  Good post.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: faizoff on October 23, 2017, 09:46:47 AM
I need to take a break from this album. My very initial rating was 8/10 and now it's probably 3/10. I can't remember the last album that I felt such an oscillating feeling towards. I'll shelve it for sometime and come back to it later.

I don't think I have any issues with the first 3 tracks, it's the songs after that which I have to listen to in a certain mood to enjoy. Really weird vibe.
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: Nick on October 23, 2017, 10:32:26 AM
Unfortunately I'm only two listens in, but I have to say my overall opinion is positive.

Couple of things, it's not many of the things they claimed it to be, which is just poor on their end, but that doesn't effect what the product is, just how people judge it going into it. It's not revolutionary, and yet it's still enjoyable. It is hard rock prog, it does sound at times like Rainbow, etc, but I think it's a pretty solid effort. Not contending for album of the year, but I look forward to future listens.
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: bosk1 on October 23, 2017, 10:39:58 AM
Unfortunately I'm only two listens in, but I have to say my overall opinion is positive.

Couple of things, it's not many of the things they claimed it to be, which is just poor on their end, but that doesn't effect what the product is, just how people judge it going into it. It's not revolutionary, and yet it's still enjoyable. It is hard rock prog, it does sound at times like Rainbow, etc, but I think it's a pretty solid effort. Not contending for album of the year, but I look forward to future listens.
I agree with most all of that.  One of my few caveats is that, for me, it is an album of the year contender.  But that is just as much a factor of this being a weak year for new releases as it is a factor of it being a good album.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: MirrorMask on October 23, 2017, 11:32:31 AM
Funny thing: the first time Labyrinth started, I was unsure if it was the song, or the Spotify commercial  :lol
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: devieira73 on October 23, 2017, 11:33:14 AM
Reading all the discussion about SoA, MP and Derek tweets etc and for those who thinks that we can evaluate a CD (or anything) isolating another aspects surround the music (or any matter), I remembered about a book and I strongly recomend to anyone to read, "Subliminal: How Your Unconscious Mind Rules Your Behavior" by Leonard Mlodinow. And, yes, maybe despite all MP and Derek's misbehaves, I still like the guys very much and I'm giving a 9 to the album because of that (also)!
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: cramx3 on October 23, 2017, 11:59:40 AM
Unfortunately I'm only two listens in, but I have to say my overall opinion is positive.

Couple of things, it's not many of the things they claimed it to be, which is just poor on their end, but that doesn't effect what the product is, just how people judge it going into it. It's not revolutionary, and yet it's still enjoyable. It is hard rock prog, it does sound at times like Rainbow, etc, but I think it's a pretty solid effort. Not contending for album of the year, but I look forward to future listens.
I agree with most all of that.  One of my few caveats is that, for me, it is an album of the year contender.  But that is just as much a factor of this being a weak year for new releases as it is a factor of it being a good album.

Yea I feel the same, gave it a 7.  It's solid for what it is and once you get passed expectations and judge it for what it is, it's really a decent album.  I can't get into JSS though, for me, that's hurting this from being better, he's not bad or anything, but doesn't add anything to the music.  However, I do think there's lots of room for improvement on the next album.  These guys spending significant time together touring may bring out more cohesive writing on the next album.  I guess besides the vocals, my number 2 let down was the songs just aren't coherent enough.  There's so much potential but it really feels like it was rushed and not enough time spend ironing out ideas and making them better and catchier.
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: Lowdz on October 23, 2017, 12:13:40 PM
Hopefully for album number two they spend more time writing for it. GotS is the strongest track and that’s one Derek brought pretty much finished. There’s a lesson to be learned there.

Still, I’ve played it half a dozen times already and still really like it. Going to have to buy it as JSS, Billy and Bumble deserve my money.

It’s certainly up there for aoty for me.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Mladen on October 23, 2017, 12:15:19 PM
While I did enjoy the weekend I spent with this album, Psychotic symphony does leave me thinking that there's a certain spark missing in the songwriting department. There are some truly great melodies and hooks throughout (Sign of the time, Alive, Labyrinth), but there wasn't a single song that I loved in its entirety. Sometimes the virtuostic instrumental bits sound underwhelming to me and I would have liked some of the songs better had the instrumentals been trimmed down. The closer does feature some fantastic themes, though, and there's plenty to like about the opener as well.

But still, overall, there wasn't even that one track that really blew my mind. Hopefully the album does generate enough excitement in the prog community so that we get another release by these guys - they can certainly improve on their next album.
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: The Walrus on October 23, 2017, 12:15:41 PM
No mercy on your bleeding soul... steal mah soul
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Lowdz on October 23, 2017, 12:21:32 PM
Billy wrote in Alive and Dvine Addiction, the songs that had the most coherence.

Billy should write more.
I think it's probably more relevant to the fact that those are the most classic hard rock in style, rather than the coherence.

Or maybe they write more coherent tunes when they do more straightforward rock than prog, so they should stick to that.

Alive still in constant rotation in my playlist.

Alive is great.  I agree that the more "straightforward" songs are where these guys shine.  But the less conventional songs are still pretty solid and provide a nice variety on the album, IMO.  I'm glad they didn't put themselves in a particular box and just stick to one main type of song structure.

I take the 'not a songwriter' thing as... well, not literally 'can't write a song' but rather 'aren't known for writing earworms or memorable tunes.' Technical chops and flashy songs, sure, all of these guys are known for their technical prowess. But that doesn't translate to good songwriting or even good playing on record. Outside of Derek and Mike I can't tell you a single song Soto, Sheehan, or Bumblefoot are known for. Same with Derek - Lines in the Sand, okay, but that's not that big of a DT tune, and his solo stuff? Can't tell you a single 'hit' or 'definitive Sherinian solo song' and I even own two of his albums. Can't make a fair call on Mike because I own so much of his work and know every DT song, but I'd wager not many non-DT fans know exactly which songs Mike Portnoy himself wrote. Because he writes lyrics, he's not a composer.

So I don't take it literally, but rather, they're not known for writing, they're known for their skills on their given instrument. EDIT: Ugh that was a mess of a post, hope that makes sense. Need... coffee...

I get what you are saying, Kattelox.  Good post.

JSS was in a band called Talisman that has a high ear worm quotient. He can write a melody.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: mikeyd23 on October 23, 2017, 12:30:54 PM
Funny thing: the first time Labyrinth started, I was unsure if it was the song, or the Spotify commercial  :lol

 :lol I did the same!
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: emtee on October 23, 2017, 12:51:30 PM
I don't love it but I like it. I think they have the potential to make a really great album and maybe this was a warm up.

One thing I will say is this kind of music fares pretty well on FM rock radio. They might get lucky and have one of these songs
catch on like PMU did and if that happens they may get to another level quickly. In this regard they may have played their
cards right. Time will tell.

Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Mosh on October 23, 2017, 12:54:14 PM
So Coming Home is the first Portnoy lyric contribution since leaving DT?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Adami on October 23, 2017, 12:55:01 PM
I don't love it but I like it. I think they have the potential to make a really great album and maybe this was a warm up.

One thing I will say is this kind of music fares pretty well on FM rock radio. They might get lucky and have one of these songs
catch on like PMU did and if that happens they may get to another level quickly. In this regard they may have played their
cards right. Time will tell.

None of this stuff plays well on radio. The style would work on a station that played music from the 90s but they don’t really break new bands. This band isn’t going to catch a big break from radio. Though it their live shows are as fun and entertaining as I think they might be, maybe they can get some good opening spots on a tour and get some fans that way.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Adami on October 23, 2017, 12:56:05 PM
So Coming Home is the first Portnoy lyric contribution since leaving DT?

He sang a song on the first FC album. I assume he wrote the lyrics to that.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: emtee on October 23, 2017, 01:00:00 PM
I don't love it but I like it. I think they have the potential to make a really great album and maybe this was a warm up.

One thing I will say is this kind of music fares pretty well on FM rock radio. They might get lucky and have one of these songs
catch on like PMU did and if that happens they may get to another level quickly. In this regard they may have played their
cards right. Time will tell.

None of this stuff plays well on radio. The style would work on a station that played music from the 90s but they don’t really break new bands. This band isn’t going to catch a big break from radio. Though it their live shows are as fun and entertaining as I think they might be, maybe they can get some good opening spots on a tour and get some fans that way.


I guess our ears differ  ;D because it sounds on a level playing field with such bands as Volbeat, Five Finger Death Punch, Disturbed,
etc. You've got double bass, heaviness, catchy hooks with a decent chorus and a vocalist that doesn't sing with a high register.
Any of their songs that get edited down to radio length would work just fine IMO. It's the kind of heavy rock that is more universally
liked than our little proggy world here. I think you could even throw Nickelback into the mix of bands whose fans would
like this music.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on October 23, 2017, 01:01:03 PM
I don't love it but I like it. I think they have the potential to make a really great album and maybe this was a warm up.

One thing I will say is this kind of music fares pretty well on FM rock radio. They might get lucky and have one of these songs
catch on like PMU did and if that happens they may get to another level quickly. In this regard they may have played their
cards right. Time will tell.

None of this stuff plays well on radio. The style would work on a station that played music from the 90s but they don’t really break new bands. This band isn’t going to catch a big break from radio. Though it their live shows are as fun and entertaining as I think they might be, maybe they can get some good opening spots on a tour and get some fans that way.

Yea, radio near me doesn't play this music.  This day and age, the music needs to go viral on youtube or something.  Catching that radio break just seems unlikely for this music.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: emtee on October 23, 2017, 01:07:05 PM
Depends on the market. Bigger markets with stations that play heavier rock DO play stuff like this. Add Breaking Benjamin, Pop Evil,
Stone Sour, Shinedown, and other heavier rock bands. The rock station here in Orlando plays this stuff all day long.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: mikeyd23 on October 23, 2017, 01:08:26 PM
Yeah I don't see this stuff hitting it big on FM radio... And also it's 2017, so I'm not sure even if it did, it would matter.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Anguyen92 on October 23, 2017, 01:13:46 PM
Depends on the market. Bigger markets with stations that play heavier rock DO play stuff like this. Add Breaking Benjamin, Pop Evil, Stone Sour, Shinedown, and other heavier rock bands. The rock station here in Orlando plays this stuff all day long.

I'm a fan of some of those bands from the active rock radio format and I'm a fan of the radio stations that plays those kinds of bands.  I honestly do not see SOA getting played.  Felt like their sound and their age seems to go against what active rock radio stations are looking for in a newer act.  Take Greta Van Fleet.  Their song, Highway Tune, has been blasted a lot on the active rock radio station I listen to and they are a really young band.  That's the sorta band that can go far in that format than say Sons of Apollo.

That stated, SOA's best bet of getting somewhere would be to open for one of those bands though.  Opening for a band like Disturbed would be a good starting platform for them.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Lethean on October 23, 2017, 01:19:23 PM
Emtee, I don't think they sound like the bands you mentioned (that I'm familiar with, like Disturbed). True that they don't have soaring vocals, but aside from that, they sound much more like an 80s rock band than Disturbed.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ariich on October 23, 2017, 01:20:45 PM
So all musicians (who write) are great song writers?

By your definition, if we're not allowed to say that the writing is bad, then you guys can't say the writing is good. If all we can say is we don't like it, then all you can is that you do like it.

Seems like a pretty boring discussion.
I never said any of that. There is absolutely tons that can be discussed around "why I like/dislike it" or "why it grabs/doesn't grab me" or even "why I don't like the songwriting".

I take the 'not a songwriter' thing as... well, not literally 'can't write a song' but rather 'aren't known for writing earworms or memorable tunes.' Technical chops and flashy songs, sure, all of these guys are known for their technical prowess. But that doesn't translate to good songwriting or even good playing on record. Outside of Derek and Mike I can't tell you a single song Soto, Sheehan, or Bumblefoot are known for. Same with Derek - Lines in the Sand, okay, but that's not that big of a DT tune, and his solo stuff? Can't tell you a single 'hit' or 'definitive Sherinian solo song' and I even own two of his albums. Can't make a fair call on Mike because I own so much of his work and know every DT song, but I'd wager not many non-DT fans know exactly which songs Mike Portnoy himself wrote. Because he writes lyrics, he's not a composer.

So I don't take it literally, but rather, they're not known for writing, they're known for their skills on their given instrument. EDIT: Ugh that was a mess of a post, hope that makes sense. Need... coffee...
I'm not following this I'm afraid. Are you saying it's about being known for writing songs, or about writing good hooks/melodies/riffs/whatever (which is all rather subjective)? For me the hooks are a strength on this album.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on October 23, 2017, 01:21:16 PM
Yea I'm really curious as well about their touring next year. Given the musicians I can't really see them touring as an opener but I'd think piggybacking off one of the top metal acts would do wonders for exposure which I think a band of older musicians might need to get younger people into them.  Too bad Avenged Sevenfold has an opener, id think that would be sweet tour package.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: The Walrus on October 23, 2017, 01:30:37 PM
I take the 'not a songwriter' thing as... well, not literally 'can't write a song' but rather 'aren't known for writing earworms or memorable tunes.' Technical chops and flashy songs, sure, all of these guys are known for their technical prowess. But that doesn't translate to good songwriting or even good playing on record. Outside of Derek and Mike I can't tell you a single song Soto, Sheehan, or Bumblefoot are known for. Same with Derek - Lines in the Sand, okay, but that's not that big of a DT tune, and his solo stuff? Can't tell you a single 'hit' or 'definitive Sherinian solo song' and I even own two of his albums. Can't make a fair call on Mike because I own so much of his work and know every DT song, but I'd wager not many non-DT fans know exactly which songs Mike Portnoy himself wrote. Because he writes lyrics, he's not a composer.

So I don't take it literally, but rather, they're not known for writing, they're known for their skills on their given instrument. EDIT: Ugh that was a mess of a post, hope that makes sense. Need... coffee...
I'm not following this I'm afraid. Are you saying it's about being known for writing songs, or about writing good hooks/melodies/riffs/whatever (which is all rather subjective)? For me the hooks are a strength on this album.

The first. When I think about any name in SoA, I think of people with great chops (holy shit that guy with braids in his beard can shred!), not "oh so-and-so wrote [insert song here], he's a great writer." Put enough monkeys in a room with a typewriter and they'll eventually write Shakespeare; put 5 monkeys in a room for 2 weeks with some gear and they'll write Psychotic Symphony.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: mikeyd23 on October 23, 2017, 01:33:19 PM
Yea I'm really curious as well about their touring next year. Given the musicians I can't really see them touring as an opener but I'd think piggybacking off one of the top metal acts would do wonders for exposure which I think a band of older musicians might need to get younger people into them.  Too bad Avenged Sevenfold has an opener, id think that would be sweet tour package.

Yeah, I don't know if the personalities in this band will look to open for someone. I feel like they will want to headline their own shows.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on October 23, 2017, 01:37:35 PM
Yea I'm really curious as well about their touring next year. Given the musicians I can't really see them touring as an opener but I'd think piggybacking off one of the top metal acts would do wonders for exposure which I think a band of older musicians might need to get younger people into them.  Too bad Avenged Sevenfold has an opener, id think that would be sweet tour package.

Yeah, I don't know if the personalities in this band will look to open for someone. I feel like they will want to headline their own shows.

I agree, but they can play to 1k-500 person venues of people who know who they are, or play to 10-15k people who don't know them.  To me, for a new band, you gotta get your name and music out there.  Plus with only one album, I think it would be good for them to focus on playing just the new music, not do covers and whatnot to fill a full headline set. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: DragonAttack on October 23, 2017, 01:40:10 PM
Am surprised that 'God Of The Sun', 'Labyrinth' and 'Opus Maximus' aren't divided up into 'a,b,c,d, and e' segments for their track listings.  So many different sounds and styles that don't seem to mesh, or could have been shuffled and placed in any other track, or just removed entirely.

'Labyrinth' seems to steal from 'The Ministry of Lost Souls' in parts, and the opening synth is more than vaguely familiar to Queen's 'The Show Must Go On'  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t99KH0TR-J4

I do like MPs drumming and sound, and hope like hell that MM would be allowed some moments like this on the next DT studio album. 

The shorter tracks were quite good for the most part.  Thal and JSS are good for the most part.  DS is good at times.  IMO, just a drawn out rather 'meh' release.  If MP and DS had spent some of the 'foot in mouth' PR session time to refining and tweaking this with the rest of their 'band', I wouldn't have been so disappointed. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: mikeyd23 on October 23, 2017, 01:40:54 PM
Yea I'm really curious as well about their touring next year. Given the musicians I can't really see them touring as an opener but I'd think piggybacking off one of the top metal acts would do wonders for exposure which I think a band of older musicians might need to get younger people into them.  Too bad Avenged Sevenfold has an opener, id think that would be sweet tour package.

Yeah, I don't know if the personalities in this band will look to open for someone. I feel like they will want to headline their own shows.

I agree, but they can play to 1k-500 person venues of people who know who they are, or play to 10-15k people who don't know them.  To me, for a new band, you gotta get your name and music out there.  Plus with only one album, I think it would be good for them to focus on playing just the new music, not do covers and whatnot to fill a full headline set.

I agree 100%. I just don't think they will do that  :lol
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: Nekov on October 23, 2017, 01:50:55 PM
5/10
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Adami on October 23, 2017, 01:59:30 PM
So all musicians (who write) are great song writers?

By your definition, if we're not allowed to say that the writing is bad, then you guys can't say the writing is good. If all we can say is we don't like it, then all you can is that you do like it.

Seems like a pretty boring discussion.
I never said any of that. There is absolutely tons that can be discussed around "why I like/dislike it" or "why it grabs/doesn't grab me" or even "why I don't like the songwriting".


Well it's hard to say WHY something doesn't grab you. It just doesn't. I constantly found myself just zoning out for the instrumental sections. I can't quantify exactly what about them caused such a reaction, but that's what happened every single listen without fail. I can add that many of the songs seem to be within the same few notes of each other for much of it, not a ton of diversity. The rhythms aren't terribly interesting either. The parts where they're actually playing a song and not just running up and down warm up exercises were not bad. It just never caught me as anything new or interesting. Like I said, there's nothing really AWFUL about this album, it's just so bland, uninspired, and lifeless (to me) that I don't think much of it. I feel like if an unknown band did this album, a lot of us would quickly just move on.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Cool Chris on October 23, 2017, 02:06:24 PM
I will echo what Adami said. I was doing some online training this weekend and spent most of it listening to music. Some of it was from my roulette, some was this album. When my roulette songs came on, I mostly lost track of what I was working on because the high quality of the music was taking away all my focus. When SoA was playing, I lost track of the music because it wasn't interesting enough to me to stop my training.

Honestly, however, this album was better than I expected after listening to the two singles/early releases. The rest of the songs are much better. I am not sure about this decision to tour so long after an album drops. And I wouldn't bet even money on these guys releasing another album, unless it is done in the next 18 months. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ariich on October 23, 2017, 02:47:38 PM
The first. When I think about any name in SoA, I think of people with great chops (holy shit that guy with braids in his beard can shred!), not "oh so-and-so wrote [insert song here], he's a great writer." Put enough monkeys in a room with a typewriter and they'll eventually write Shakespeare; put 5 monkeys in a room for 2 weeks with some gear and they'll write Psychotic Symphony.
Gotcha, thanks.

Personally, I never think of it that way as I don't normally know (or necessarily care) who wrote what song (or bit of song), especially as so many bands share the writing credits. I do know that I dig a lot of Bumblefoot's solo stuff, but that's solo material so easier to know.

Well it's hard to say WHY something doesn't grab you. It just doesn't.
Yeah I get that, I'm often the same, and indeed it's often not easy to define why something does grab you either, beyond how it makes you feel. But having said that, you then went on to give a pretty good explanation of why you don't like the album, so obviously not THAT difficult. :lol
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on October 23, 2017, 02:53:48 PM
Personally, I never think of it that way as I don't normally know (or necessarily care) who wrong what song (or bit of song), especially as so many bands share the writing credits. I do know that I dig a lot of Bumblefoot's solo stuff, but that's solo material so easier to know.

Tell that to James LaBrie  :lol
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ariich on October 23, 2017, 03:08:24 PM
Personally, I never think of it that way as I don't normally know (or necessarily care) who wrong what song (or bit of song), especially as so many bands share the writing credits. I do know that I dig a lot of Bumblefoot's solo stuff, but that's solo material so easier to know.
Tell that to James LaBrie  :lol
Touche. :lol
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bosk1 on October 23, 2017, 03:13:55 PM
Who?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bill1971 on October 23, 2017, 03:48:49 PM
Who?

Star Lord
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Sycsa on October 23, 2017, 04:02:26 PM
Who?

Star Lord
Dude has great taste in music.
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: ProfessorPeart on October 23, 2017, 04:27:58 PM
7/10

It's exactly what I was expecting from the moment the project was announced. No surprises at all. An enjoyable Prog Metal listen.
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: rumborak on October 23, 2017, 04:34:40 PM
I'm listening to "Little Brother Is Watching". It's a bummer that Thal didn't have more songwriting influence on SoA. I think his quirky sense of melodies combined with the prog aspects of MP and DS would have made for a really innovative record.
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: Fritzinger on October 23, 2017, 04:39:16 PM
I am surprised that Labyrinth isn't getting the positive resonance that God Of The Sun is getting. Imo it's even more compact and structured very clearly. The parts flow into each other better than in God Of The Sun. The only thing about this song (apart from the small 1985 ripoff) I realized that it doesn't really have a chorus. The "Cause it takes me in and I can't let go" part seems more like a bridge to me, which is not follow by a real chorus. But apart from that, I think Labyrinth is a really great song. I wonder what people would have said if Derek said, THIS song was the only song he worked on before going into the sessions instead of God Of The Sun.
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: rumborak on October 23, 2017, 04:49:33 PM
Labyrinth ist pretty good in the first half, and then it becomes This Dying Soul, where it's just one dissonant section after the other glued together.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: KevShmev on October 23, 2017, 05:10:07 PM
Were standards lower then to where this mediocre product would have been more acceptable?

...why are you always trying to bust my balls Kev?

 ???

Just asking a simple question.  :)
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bill1971 on October 23, 2017, 05:25:59 PM
Who?

Star Lord
Dude has great taste in music.

Agreed. GOTG2 was my soundtrack for May and a lot of June.

Anyhow back to SOA Gods of the Sun is a pretty good song as well. The album is not bad, it's a fairly good prog metal album with some interesting parts but it does not in any way compare to DT of the past or present.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: gzarruk on October 23, 2017, 05:52:50 PM
Listened to the whole album again today. Still can't get through Opus Maximus, it feels like a lifeless, incoherent piece with terrible flow between its parts. Is it just me?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Sycsa on October 23, 2017, 05:55:03 PM
Listened to the whole album again today. Still can't get through Opus Maximus, it feels like a lifeless, incoherent piece with terrible flow between its parts. Is it just me?
Nope.
I squeezed out some fun from every single track, except for Opus Maximus, which is a total throwaway.
I wouldn't even have put that track on the album, let alone close with it.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Metro on October 23, 2017, 06:00:53 PM
Listened to the whole album again today. Still can't get through Opus Maximus, it feels like a lifeless, incoherent piece with terrible flow between its parts. Is it just me?

Not just you. I have no desire to ever hear it again.
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: Madman Shepherd on October 23, 2017, 06:03:14 PM
So I was going to wait to borrow my friends copy but I couldn't resist checking out what I could find from various sources which is almost the whole album.  I am actually quite surprised.  I think the first three tracks released are by far the worst.  They complete fucked up the roll out of this album with Mike's tantrums about people guessing it was Bumblefoot, Derek's jealous sophomoric jabs, and some unexciting introductions.  They should have been bold and released God of the Sun first or Labyrinth.  Both are actually quite good.  The latter has some parts lifted from other songs though.  I noticed a very similar vocal line from Change of Seasons, the drum part half way through with the keyboards coming in is very similar to John Arch's song Relentless.  There is also a part which is pretty similar to a part of Metropolis.  All of these would be a cool nugget if Mike wasn't such a turd about the bullshit ADTOE "similarities" but I guess if it's a desperate attempt to rewrite his past....

Anyway, I think their behavior made my expectations so low that I was pleasantly surprised by the two songs I mentioned.  Also, Divine Addiction is badass.  Great riff.  Great melodies. 

Since I can change my vote, I decided to give it a five temporarily and will go back and rerate it when I can listen to these songs on an actual stereo system.  In fact, based off of the three songs I think are good, I would probably bite the bullet and buy the album if Mike could restrain himself for more than a week.  Another slam on DTF today by the way with another reference to a "bubble" and his imaginary unanimously positive responses online.   ::)
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: gzarruk on October 23, 2017, 06:05:01 PM
Listened to the whole album again today. Still can't get through Opus Maximus, it feels like a lifeless, incoherent piece with terrible flow between its parts. Is it just me?

Not just you. I have no desire to ever hear it again.

Listened to the whole album again today. Still can't get through Opus Maximus, it feels like a lifeless, incoherent piece with terrible flow between its parts. Is it just me?
Nope.
I squeezed out some fun from every single track, except for Opus Maximus, which is a total throwaway.
I wouldn't even have put that track on the album, let alone close with it.

That one and Figaro's Whore  :facepalm:
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Sycsa on October 23, 2017, 06:12:31 PM
Listened to the whole album again today. Still can't get through Opus Maximus, it feels like a lifeless, incoherent piece with terrible flow between its parts. Is it just me?

Not just you. I have no desire to ever hear it again.

Listened to the whole album again today. Still can't get through Opus Maximus, it feels like a lifeless, incoherent piece with terrible flow between its parts. Is it just me?
Nope.
I squeezed out some fun from every single track, except for Opus Maximus, which is a total throwaway.
I wouldn't even have put that track on the album, let alone close with it.

That one and Figaro's Whore  :facepalm:
I don't have a problem with that, mainly because I really enjoy the sound of an isolated Hammond, and I think of it as an intro to Divine Addiction, which is my favorite track on the album. Derek could have done a better job with it though, no doubt.
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: Adami on October 23, 2017, 06:49:01 PM
So I want to revise my rating.

As a musical album, I'm still giving it a 5/10.

As background music to my studying? 10/10. At no point am I forced to stop studying to pay attention to a great part.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: gzarruk on October 23, 2017, 07:08:55 PM
I don't have a problem with that, mainly because I really enjoy the sound of an isolated Hammond, and I think of it as an intro to Divine Addiction, which is my favorite track on the album. Derek could have done a better job with it though, no doubt.

To me, it just sounds like Derek messing around with the organ, trying to become Jon Lord. I didn't enjoy Divine Addiction that much, either. If I wanted to listen to something that sounds A LOT like Deep Purple, I would just listen to Deep Purple  :biggrin:
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: TAC on October 23, 2017, 07:34:42 PM
Yeah, that's a big thing as I'm listening. Derek is the weak link. Just above MP. And were they afraid JSS would steal the show? MP treated the vocals just as he did on SC and BC&SL, secondary. Which is too bad because he had fantastic vocalists at his disposal.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Adami on October 23, 2017, 07:39:39 PM
Yea, I'd oddly enough rank the members of this band as such

1. Bumblefoot
2. Sheehan
3. Sotto
4. Derek
5. MP
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: KevShmev on October 23, 2017, 07:43:14 PM
I'm not as big on God of the Sun as most seem to be (and yet it is still probably one of the few songs on this I would say is not a throwaway), but when that guitar lead comes in after the intro, that is pretty cool, and then Sherinian almost immediately overtakes it with his synths and puts the kibosh on what could have been an extended cool lead by Stumblebum. Major wasted opportunity, but par for the course given the choppy, cut and paste structure of the song.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: pcs90 on October 23, 2017, 07:45:25 PM
Yea, I'd oddly enough rank the members of this band as such

1. Bumblefoot
2. Sheehan
3. Sotto
4. Derek
5. MP
I agree with this ranking.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: rumborak on October 23, 2017, 07:45:30 PM
MP treated the vocals just as he did on SC and BC&SL, secondary.

I remember hearing the instrumental version of BCSL for the first time and it struck me like lightning. That's how the songs had been written, without vocals. They were incredibly round and complete, and to this day, with the exception of TCOT, I enjoy the instrumental version of the album more.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: TAC on October 23, 2017, 07:51:58 PM
I have never listened to the instrumental versions. I have them, but I have never listened to the disc.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Grappler on October 23, 2017, 08:20:41 PM
I think it's a pretty rocking album.  JSS kills it like always, and musically it has enough to offer for me, especially with some nice heavy guitars.  I love some of these riffs!  I'm not familiar with Billy Sheehan (other than that he was the defacto "hey, we need a guest on That Metal Show) or Bumblefoot, so I can't offer much to say about them.  I do agree that Derek seems to have some random keyboard parts on occasion, but it doesn't really distract me from the songs.

I've only listened to the album once and am on my second way through it, and I'm happy with it.
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: majo on October 23, 2017, 11:50:44 PM
about 10 listens in... still 6/10 (haven't rated anything from DT after 6DOIT higher than this neither though)
meh, i fail to see any potential for something unique/original/fresh from this band in future.
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: bl5150 on October 24, 2017, 12:05:33 AM
about 10 listens in... still 6/10 (haven't rated anything from DT after 6DOIT higher than this neither though)
meh, i fail to see any potential for something unique/original/fresh from this band in future.

Congrats on having the patience to listen to something ten times in a week or so that you rate 6/10  ;D   
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: tristl on October 24, 2017, 12:08:12 AM
I listend yesterday to the whole album doing my workout,
it just does not touch me, by the way, after soa I had the new trivium on my iphone, that is really sounding great :metal
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: nobloodyname on October 24, 2017, 12:16:48 AM
I'm listening to "Little Brother Is Watching". It's a bummer that Thal didn't have more songwriting influence on SoA. I think his quirky sense of melodies combined with the prog aspects of MP and DS would have made for a really innovative record.

Completely agree. (Even if the album does peter out just a little towards the end.)
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: majo on October 24, 2017, 12:19:51 AM
about 10 listens in... still 6/10 (haven't rated anything from DT after 6DOIT higher than this neither though)
meh, i fail to see any potential for something unique/original/fresh from this band in future.

Congrats on having the patience to listen to something ten times in a week or so that you rate 6/10  ;D   
well... 6/10 isn't that bad in my books. There is about 30 minutes of music I kinda dig. It's not very original or unique 30 mins but still solid. I wouldn't be able, for instance, go through even half of something like The Astonishing 10 times in one week. Also, I've had SoA for longer than a week   :yarr
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: PetFish on October 24, 2017, 12:35:31 AM
I'm giving away some MP-specific items:

https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=51106.0
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: MirrorMask on October 24, 2017, 01:24:49 AM
Listened to the whole album again today. Still can't get through Opus Maximus, it feels like a lifeless, incoherent piece with terrible flow between its parts. Is it just me?

Well, it has life in its most melodic parts, but as a whole, it's kinda meh.

I remember my fears when I learnt that on the then new Train of Though, the instrumental was 11 minutes long, and I was happy to find that it was riff driven and not jam driven, and that it has a coherent mood throughout the song, this doesn't happen with Opus Maximus.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: IDontNotDoThings on October 24, 2017, 04:33:25 AM
So my pre-order finally arrived...


...in a damaged case.  :angry:



Oh well, I'm about to start listening. I'll post my opinions of the songs as I go along. I enjoyed the singles, so let's hope this thing is good.  :metal
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: IDontNotDoThings on October 24, 2017, 04:49:58 AM
God Of The Sun - Killer opening track. It's got a great swaggery groove to it while not letting up in the slightest in terms of heaviness. I will say that the section from 7-9 minutes didn't need to be there at all (& this is coming from someone who usually enjoys those sorts of sections), though maybe it'll become more natural with more listens. I do however, like the sheer epicness of the song, & while part of that may be due to its length, I think it has an overall good sense of pacing minus that section, & by the time the final chorus hits, it has a million times more impact than the first one (which seemed underwhelming at first, but I quickly "got" it later on). Apart from that, I enjoy the mystical-sounding intro (for lack of a better term) & how it has slight reincarnations in later parts of the song, which adds a bit of variety to it. Overall a solid (although shaky at times) listen & a good starting point for the album.

Coming Home - Like I said the first time, I like this track way more than people gave it credit for. Time has passed & I think it's only gotten better with age. That riff is just so powerful & the song's groove is immense. Because of that, I feel like it (again) has a good sense of pace, probably better than God Of The Sun due to it being more direct. Another thing I like is how the chorus, instead of building up, it instead cuts back to basics just to emphasise how solid that riff is. Then, of course, there's the solo, in which Ron's guitar tone really makes this work. I don't really know how to put it, but to a certain extent it's light & airy with just the right amount of power to have it stick out. I think it also works really well with Derek's keyboard tone & together they truly make that section an experience. So yeah, I still really love this song. At the moment I'm finding it a little bit better than God Of The Sun, though maybe that's just because I'm more familiar with this one. I don't know, let's see.

Signs Of The Time - Okay, maybe I regret what I said about Ron's guitar being light & airy. That intro scared the shit out of me.  :lol Needless to say, this is where the heaviness of the album really starts to be emphasised, but I feel like that effort's a little misplaced on this track. I don't really care for the main riff too much or the heavy guitar tone or the brooding metal lyrics, but I feel where the song really shines is in the melodic elements. That chorus is fantastic & once again, when given some dynamics, Ron's soloing is top-notch. I just wish they placed a little more emphasis on those elements because the heavy elements on this track don't have nearly as much to offer. While Coming Home was a little bit of a grower for me, I feel like this song works better as a single. It especially doesn't work as well after two majorly groove-laden tracks. I don't hate this song (hell, I even said I liked it when it came out), but what majorly strikes me about it is that it's just okay & could've been better. That, & from an album's perspective, my interest is starting to wane a little bit. Let's see what's next.

Labyrinth - Now this is what I'm talking about. A good variety of all different types of sections interlaced with each other & helping each other to grow. As the second epic from the album, I definitely get that "epic" vibe from this a lot more than I do from God Of The Sun. While both songs have offshoot sections & vary greatly from their source material, I feel like Labyrinth does a lot better of a job at conveying its changes without losing any impact, & I feel like a big part of that is in MP's drumming. While it hasn't particularly stuck out to me on the last three songs, it does such a great job on this song at holding everything together when realistically it should all be going to chaos. One more thing, I love that guitar solo, it's just so great at building up from a starting point to a satisfying climax, & the ending to that solo is the true epicness I was expecting from this song, & it did not disappoint in the slightest. Great song, best one so far. Now we'll just have to see how they follow this up.

Alive - A ballad? Have to admit, not what I was expecting at this point in the album, but I'll take it regardless. I feel like this songs sets up a pretty great atmosphere in its opening sections & the first verse sets up quite a bit of potential. While the chorus is a little generic, it's certainly nothing terrible, but then after that comes the riff & that's where my MAJOR problem with the song starts. Every time this song changes sections, the momentum it's gained from its previous sections is completely lost & the song comes to a screeching halt. Like, that heavy riff comes in right after the chorus with no introduction & after it happens it just goes into the second verse like nothing ever happened. & this is an issue that unfortunately extends into the solo too. I do look the quiet & atmospheric solo sections & all, but at this point in the album, you've gotta wonder if they're only doing this because they don't have any other ideas because it doesn't work for the song whatsoever, nor is it that impressive seeing as the rest of it isn't even that loud by comparison. I guess what I'm saying is, this song had a lot of potential to be great, but it kills its own mood several times within the transitions & it just makes it extremely difficult for it to be immersive (like these types of tracks generally are). Overall, it's a pretty big disappointment, let's see what's next.

Lost In Oblivion - Well, it's certainly heavy, but that's about all I can say about it. If you enjoy songs that are brutally heavy beyond any reasonable measure, then go ahead, this is right up your alley, but other than that, you can obviously tell that this is it's only real focus. Not that there's anything wrong with that - after all, a brutally heavy song can be fun as hell to listen to if you're in the right mood, but this doesn't quite reach out to me like let's just say Avenged Sevenfold's 'God Hates Us' does for example. These types of songs do tend to grow on me, so maybe my opinion will change, but as of right now, it's just "I understand what it's trying to do & I can see myself enjoying it sometime else, but it doesn't do much for me now". The only other thing I have to mention is that I can't be the only one who notices structural similarities to Signs Of The Time, right? Okay, let's move on.

Figaro's Whore - Oh really Derek, you're all about the feel & #nogadgetsfakery? I find that hard to believe when this song is basically "let's play 10000 notes per second that are only vaguely in key & don't contribute any rhythmic or melodic quality whatsoever". Delet this.

Divine Addiction - This is a nice little hard-rock track. It's influence from Deep Purple's 'Perfect Strangers' is pretty obvious, but I don't think that's necessarily an issue. This song just has a nice sense of power to it, especially in the outro. The verses & chorus come & go & it's all very fast-paced with quick buildups. & I think this is necessary because of how rhythmically oriented the song is. The pulse is pretty much tangible & you feel it with every beat of this song as it progresses. While there may not be an ultra-stellar section or solo that really sticks out, this track works well as a coherent whole, & as a homage to classic hard rock. It works well for what it tries to do, but that isn't exactly the most ambitious thing in the world is what I'm trying to say. Still an enjoyable listen though & a good change of pace from the disappointment of the past three tracks. Now let's just see if they can end it well.

Opus Maximus - Interesting ending for this album. This final track has the band take a daring experiment to actually construct a progressive metal song. & that it does. The whole song is very brooding (or at least it begins that way) & has a lot of variety between groove-oriented parts, solo-oriented parts & metal-oriented parts. I will say however that the onslaught of new sections can get pretty overwhelming & there's not a whole lot sticking it together. That said, it forces you to be fully engaged with it until the end due to it's sheer intensity, & for once on this album, the heaviness doesn't come off as forced, but instead as legitimately dark & threatening, especially in the intro. & the bassline-driven section has a ton of groove to it, which again, gives the song more variety. That said, a lot of sections just kind of come up out of nowhere, especially in the 3-minute mark, & I will admit that near the end I was about ready for the song to be over. Nonetheless, it did prove to be an interesting ending to the album & I fully expect this song to majorly grow on me once I get my head around how it's structured. It's just a little different & strange is all, but definitely not bad.

Verdict - This album was... disappointing. While it definitely had its moments & took influence from many different sources, the end result suffered from poor flow, unnecessary sections, some shallow songwriting choices, & nearing the end of the album, most of the songs started to bleed together for me. I will stand by my opinion that the highs on this album are great achievements that shouldn't go unnoticed, but with all that said, I wish they'd constructed a better album experience rather that a mixed bag of songs. While it's not bad by any means, & if someone's into metal, I'd suggest they'd at least check it out, but just be prepared for a shaky ride. Again, it's not terrible or anything, but it's far below what I expect from these musicians, what I expected from the hype surrounding it, & my own expectations from the singles. I defended them until this point, but they haven't made an album that's worth defending here.

5/10

Ranking:

#1. Labyrinth
#2. Opus Maximus
#3. Coming Home
#4. God Of The Sun
#5. Divine Addiction
#6. Signs Of The Time
#7. Lost In Oblivion
#8. Alive
#9. Figaro's Whore
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Skeever on October 24, 2017, 06:36:03 AM
Opus Maximus starts strongly enough, but after 3-4 minutes, it devolves into ITNOG territories of wankery, except, unlike ITNOG, it never circles back around to something big and satisfying. So, it's not as bad as Raw Dog as far as instruments go, but it's certainly close.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: MirrorMask on October 24, 2017, 06:45:50 AM
I'd have a hard time ranking them. For sure the two instrumentals are my least favorites, and God of the Sun is my clear favorite.

I can't however pick between the remaining songs, they're all good in their own way and it's even hard for me to compare the long Labyrinth, the balladesque alive and the retro Divine Addiction. All solid stuff.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bosk1 on October 24, 2017, 08:07:39 AM
Did someone say...ranking?  :biggrin:

Hard to really do one this early, but I'll give it a shot based on initial impressions:

1.  Alive - #1 and #2 were a tossup.  Alive is incredibly beautiful, and I gave it the #1 spot due to its focus.  Once I have a chance to have really digested Labrynth, the order could very well switch.
2.  Labyrinth
3.  Signs Of The Time - I wish the riffing was a bit less muddy.  But still solid.
4.  Divine Addiction - Cool closer.  That big organ sound is just right for this song.
5.  Coming Home - Another solid one.
6.  God of the Sun - This is where there is a slight dropoff for me.  I like the song.  There are some amazing moments.  But it seems to lack cohesion.
7.  Lost In Oblivion - The only vocal track that feels a bit like "filler" where there were some good ideas, but this might not have made the cut if they had something else a bit stronger.
8.  Opus Maximus - As mentioned above, some cool moments, but meanders all over the place and doesn't seem to have focus.
9.  Figaro's Whore - Fun, short instrumental/solo spot. 

Not a bad song in the lot, as far as I'm concerned.  But the standouts really stand out.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Metro on October 24, 2017, 08:49:18 AM
1. God of the Sun

2. Signs of the Time

3-7. For me, nothing really stands out from the rest of the album. It's boring, and it all blends together.

8. Opus Maximus

9. Figaros Whore
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: emtee on October 24, 2017, 09:07:05 AM
The most positive takeaway for me is that this band does have the potential to create something great. With
MP's schedule and commitments to all his other projects it's hard to envision him being able to take any
large chunk of time in the studio with SoA. And while there is not a direct correlation to time-in-studio vs.
standing the test of time, I think it helps to have a few months to fine tune and demo the songs. Everything
MP does in the studio has time constraints and so he can't spend any substantial amount of time on parts
for each song. And while he is always rock solid in the studio and I have loved his drumming for many years,
he hasn't really pulled out any truly unique parts for many years. This band has a great foundation and possibly
a landmark album in their future but IMO it won't happen unless they spend a generous amount of time together
during the creative process.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: New World Rushman on October 24, 2017, 09:09:08 AM
Put enough monkeys in a room with a typewriter and they'll eventually write Shakespeare; put 5 monkeys in a room for 2 weeks with some gear and they'll write Psychotic Symphony.

[quote lerxt] Who's going to clean all those typewriters?![/quote]
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ariich on October 24, 2017, 09:09:37 AM
Did someone say...ranking?  :biggrin:

Hard to really do one this early, but I'll give it a shot based on initial impressions:

1.  Alive - #1 and #2 were a tossup.  Alive is incredibly beautiful, and I gave it the #1 spot due to its focus.  Once I have a chance to have really digested Labrynth, the order could very well switch.
2.  Labyrinth
3.  Signs Of The Time - I wish the riffing was a bit less muddy.  But still solid.
4.  Divine Addiction - Cool closer.  That big organ sound is just right for this song.
5.  Coming Home - Another solid one.
6.  God of the Sun - This is where there is a slight dropoff for me.  I like the song.  There are some amazing moments.  But it seems to lack cohesion.
7.  Lost In Oblivion - The only vocal track that feels a bit like "filler" where there were some good ideas, but this might not have made the cut if they had something else a bit stronger.
8.  Opus Maximus - As mentioned above, some cool moments, but meanders all over the place and doesn't seem to have focus.
9.  Figaro's Whore - Fun, short instrumental/solo spot. 

Not a bad song in the lot, as far as I'm concerned.  But the standouts really stand out.
I'd put Alive a bit lower and God of the Sun a bit higher, but otherwise this looks about right for me.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: The Walrus on October 24, 2017, 10:04:26 AM
Put enough monkeys in a room with a typewriter and they'll eventually write Shakespeare; put 5 monkeys in a room for 2 weeks with some gear and they'll write Psychotic Symphony.

Who's going to clean all those typewriters?!

 :lol
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: devieira73 on October 24, 2017, 10:08:00 AM
https://allthatshreds.com/ron-bumblefoot-thal-discusses-sons-apollo-exit-guns-roses/
I have no complaints about the end result, but, yes, the writing process did seem a bit rushed.
Even DT spends at least a month on it (isn't the case for ADToE?)
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: rumborak on October 24, 2017, 10:34:48 AM
And while he is always rock solid in the studio and I have loved his drumming for many years,
he hasn't really pulled out any truly unique parts for many years.

There is one interesting section drumming wise, it's a complicated meter in Opus Maximum. I suspect it's the section he referred to in an interview having to sit down and practice it for half an hour.

Quote
This band has a great foundation and possibly
a landmark album in their future but IMO it won't happen unless they spend a generous amount of time together
during the creative process.

If the general public perception of the album is like ours, I don't quite see them doing a second album.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Fritzinger on October 24, 2017, 10:39:16 AM
And while he is always rock solid in the studio and I have loved his drumming for many years,
he hasn't really pulled out any truly unique parts for many years.

There is one interesting section drumming wise, it's a complicated meter in Opus Maximum. I suspect it's the section he referred to in an interview having to sit down and practice it for half an hour.

Quote
This band has a great foundation and possibly
a landmark album in their future but IMO it won't happen unless they spend a generous amount of time together
during the creative process.

If the general public perception of the album is like ours, I don't quite see them doing a second album.

I think that section was the "Rushuggah" riff Bumble came up with, it's the opening riff for Lost In Oblivion.

The general public perception is not like in this forum. Most reviews I have read are pretty positive.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: devieira73 on October 24, 2017, 10:45:56 AM
Yes, if you google "Sons of apollo psychotic symphony review", it's really easy to verify that.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: SwedishGoose on October 24, 2017, 11:32:18 AM
Yes, if you google "Sons of apollo psychotic symphony review", it's really easy to verify that.

I guess the top three are written by DTF members.... or scratch that. All reviews that do not praise the album as the best thing sinced sliced bread must be written by mebers of this board.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Herrick on October 24, 2017, 11:52:49 AM
Yea, I'd oddly enough rank the members of this band as such

1. Bumblefoot
2. Sheehan
3. Sotto
4. Derek
5. MP
I agree with this ranking.

I'd go with:

1. Bumblefoot
2. Sotto
3. Sherinian
4. Sheehan
5. Portnoy

And really Sotto & Bumblefoot are tied for me. I haven't listened to the album enough to catch all of the cool things Bumblefoot might've done. To be fair, that probably applies to Sheehan too. He's not very up front in the mix. With Sotto, it's a straight up love fest for Herrick. If they do another album, I'd really like to hear Sotto do some different vocal stuff.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ariich on October 24, 2017, 11:58:48 AM
The general public perception is not like in this forum. Most reviews I have read are pretty positive.
Indeed, more so than I would have expected actually, even though I like the album a lot.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Adami on October 24, 2017, 12:09:54 PM
I haven't looked at too many reviews, but I do wonder how many of them are legit reviews, as opposed to huge MP fans that love whatever he does? Many of the reviews posted here have been far too over the top for many of us to take seriously. I guess I would just be skeptical of how many reviews are of unbias listeners or people who would have loved/hated whatever it was.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bill1971 on October 24, 2017, 12:15:20 PM
Yea, I'd oddly enough rank the members of this band as such

1. Bumblefoot
2. Sheehan
3. Sotto
4. Derek
5. MP
I agree with this ranking.

I'd go with:

1. Bumblefoot
2. Sotto
3. Sherinian
4. Sheehan
5. Portnoy

And really Sotto & Bumblefoot are tied for me. I haven't listened to the album enough to catch all of the cool things Bumblefoot might've done. To be fair, that probably applies to Sheehan too. He's not very up front in the mix. With Sotto, it's a straight up love fest for Herrick. If they do another album, I'd really like to hear Sotto do some different vocal stuff.

I agree MP is the weak link here, sadly like he was in DT towards the end as well. I think if this is the first album you heard from him it would be a different story. He is obviously a great player but I feel like I've heard all of his fills and patterns by now.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ariich on October 24, 2017, 12:20:53 PM
I haven't looked at too many reviews, but I do wonder how many of them are legit reviews, as opposed to huge MP fans that love whatever he does? Many of the reviews posted here have been far too over the top for many of us to take seriously. I guess I would just be skeptical of how many reviews are of unbias listeners or people who would have loved/hated whatever it was.
I don't know about bias necessarily, but for sure many (most?) of the reviews that are either gushing praise or harsh digs are going to be either that or simply strong opinions/tastes/whatever. But places like TeamRock (which runs Classic Rock, Prog, Metal Hammer and so on) gave it 4 stars, for example. And there are a bunch of reviews that read pretty neutrally giving 7-9/10 or equivalents.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Adami on October 24, 2017, 12:23:24 PM
Oh totally. Like I said, I haven't seen them. I generally don't read reviews anyway. I just hope the reviews from the very very odd places "koreauguitar" or whatever, or sites that looked like they were just made for the reviews, aren't being seen as genuinely reliable reviews.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: kaos2900 on October 24, 2017, 12:28:17 PM
I doubt the number of albums sold will determine if another record is made. I'm guessing the turn out at the shows will be a bigger indicator of their success. Also, I'd be curious if JSS and Billy want to continue. Billy is old and has other commitments and it sounds like JSS didn't have a lot of creative freedom.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ariich on October 24, 2017, 12:29:31 PM
Oh totally. Like I said, I haven't seen them. I generally don't read reviews anyway.
Same, the only reason I looked some up were because of this conversation. :lol
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bill1971 on October 24, 2017, 12:34:32 PM
I doubt the number of albums sold will determine if another record is made. I'm guessing the turn out at the shows will be a bigger indicator of their success. Also, I'd be curious if JSS and Billy want to continue. Billy is old and has other commitments and it sounds like JSS didn't have a lot of creative freedom.

I think everyone besides Derek have a lot of other things on their plate, so I would be surprised if this is a full time project past 2018. This seems like a fun one off project.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on October 24, 2017, 12:34:59 PM
Maybe, but to me, it's MP being MP and it's hard to rate him low for doing what he does.  I guess I'll give a shot at my rankings:

1. Bumblefoot - easily the most impressive on this album and that could be due to me not being familiar so I didn't know what to expect, but he really shines here.
2. Sheehan - I've always enjoyed his playing, but I think he takes a back seat in the production and the music benefits from it.  It's not like he's not there, he is and his playing is great, but it's not in your face and it's not disrupting the sound of the album or the other instruments.  Part of me wants to put MP here, but I think that him taking the back seat is actually an advantage and he should be credited for that instead of injecting his tone all over this album.
3. Mike Portnoy - MP being MP.  Nothing new here but also still does his thing and his drums are great on the album.  If the complaint is that he isn't breaking boundaries, fine, that's fair, but it doesn't mean his drumming is bad.  It's great and it's still better than lots of other drumming I personally listen to.
4. Derek - He shines in some spots and in others he just does nothing.  Figaro's Whore is terrible.  His contributions to God of the Sun could have had him higher in this ranking but between Figaro's Whore and his mouth, he goes here.  He didn't live up to his own hype.
5. JSS - Eh, I think from reading others reviews, I am alone here.  But he isn't bad at all, but he also doesn't bring anything to the table for me.  His singing is fairly straightforward for the entire album.  I think I like his softer singing better personally like in Alive, but by the time the album is coming to an end, I feel like I am happy to have an instrumental to let the other guys do their thing vs hearing more of the same from JSS.  It doesn't help that the vocal melodies aren't that interesting either.
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: bill1971 on October 24, 2017, 12:40:32 PM
So I want to revise my rating.

As a musical album, I'm still giving it a 5/10.

As background music to my studying? 10/10. At no point am I forced to stop studying to pay attention to a great part.

I'll keep my 6/10 for musical aspects

10/10 as a way to not spend money and not being good enough to purchase.

Your post inspired me. :)
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Architeuthis on October 24, 2017, 12:47:25 PM
Yeah, thats what I was talking about in the other thread. I thought JSS's vocals were a little on the conservative side for this album. I don't remember him having a really shining moment where he really belts it out. The harmonies in the choruses are the highpoint. 
 Reminds me of BC&SL where JLB's vocals were good but conservative..
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: bill1971 on October 24, 2017, 12:55:36 PM
So I was going to wait to borrow my friends copy but I couldn't resist checking out what I could find from various sources which is almost the whole album.  I am actually quite surprised.  I think the first three tracks released are by far the worst.  They complete fucked up the roll out of this album with Mike's tantrums about people guessing it was Bumblefoot, Derek's jealous sophomoric jabs, and some unexciting introductions.  They should have been bold and released God of the Sun first or Labyrinth.  Both are actually quite good.  The latter has some parts lifted from other songs though.  I noticed a very similar vocal line from Change of Seasons, the drum part half way through with the keyboards coming in is very similar to John Arch's song Relentless.  There is also a part which is pretty similar to a part of Metropolis.  All of these would be a cool nugget if Mike wasn't such a turd about the bullshit ADTOE "similarities" but I guess if it's a desperate attempt to rewrite his past....

Anyway, I think their behavior made my expectations so low that I was pleasantly surprised by the two songs I mentioned.  Also, Divine Addiction is badass.  Great riff.  Great melodies. 

Since I can change my vote, I decided to give it a five temporarily and will go back and rerate it when I can listen to these songs on an actual stereo system.  In fact, based off of the three songs I think are good, I would probably bite the bullet and buy the album if Mike could restrain himself for more than a week.  Another slam on DTF today by the way with another reference to a "bubble" and his imaginary unanimously positive responses online.   ::)

Yes, he said this.

Mike Portnoy And honestly, that seems to be the ONLY place online with negative comments....
You should listen for yourself and make your own judgement.
There's a MUCH bigger world out there than that small little online bubble!
Just seems to be a lot of prejudice over there between my history with them and now Derek's DelFuvian comments of late...
Can't please em all...shame...oh well...
We're gonna have a blast with or without em!


Anyhow, I get it, he's proud of this album and in his mind the only way someone wont like it will be for personal reasons not for musical content. Someone a few posts down mentioned that rate your music didn't rate it that high. Someone else pointed out that there are some on DTF that love the album.
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: cramx3 on October 24, 2017, 01:02:44 PM
Was this a tweet today?  I am curious to find it.  I do think he has some points though, not the "bubble" but the "Just seems to be a lot of prejudice over there between my history with them and now Derek's DelFuvian comments of late..." I think that is true for some people.  Calling this place a bubble just seems ridiculous to me, but I don't think he's that far off with respect to some of the negative reviews here (not all).
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: SwedishGoose on October 24, 2017, 01:06:37 PM
It was in the comments on this Facebook post

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=1936384026379230&id=116713035013014


My comment that was alluded to previously  in full:

Quote
Sorry to say but Rate your music has it quite low as well at 3.5 / 5 and there are quite a few lukewarm reviews around. So DTF is definitely not the only place online with negative comments.

Surpriced it's still there....
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: Metro on October 24, 2017, 01:10:36 PM
For me it doesn't matter what was said by MP and DS prior to this album. It certainly lowered my opinion of them as people, but it had no effect on my enjoyment of this album(or lack thereof).
It wouldn't matter if they had dropped this album out of nowhere with no promotion whatsoever. A bad album is a bad album.
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: ariich on October 24, 2017, 01:15:57 PM
Was this a tweet today?  I am curious to find it.  I do think he has some points though, not the "bubble" but the "Just seems to be a lot of prejudice over there between my history with them and now Derek's DelFuvian comments of late..." I think that is true for some people.  Calling this place a bubble just seems ridiculous to me, but I don't think he's that far off with respect to some of the negative reviews here (not all).
Indeed, DTF certainly isn't a bubble, but the negative reactions to MP and DS have been off the chart here and the response to the album is more negative than pretty much anywhere else.

It was in the comments on this Facebook post

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=1936384026379230&id=116713035013014


My comment that was alluded to previously  in full:

Quote
Sorry to say but Rate your music has it quite low as well at 3.5 / 5 and there are quite a few lukewarm reviews around. So DTF is definitely not the only place online with negative comments.

Surpriced it's still there....
FYI a 3.5 rating at RYM is actually pretty good.
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: bill1971 on October 24, 2017, 01:25:17 PM
It was in the comments on this Facebook post

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=1936384026379230&id=116713035013014


My comment that was alluded to previously  in full:

Quote
Sorry to say but Rate your music has it quite low as well at 3.5 / 5 and there are quite a few lukewarm reviews around. So DTF is definitely not the only place online with negative comments.

Surpriced it's still there....

I didn't know it was you. Good post. I am surprised it's still there too. I completely disagree with MP. If that were the case I would not like Labyrinth so much. Also I LOVE the members of Rush as people, very classy but it does get me to like Rivendell.
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: Madman Shepherd on October 24, 2017, 01:34:49 PM
Was this a tweet today?  I am curious to find it.  I do think he has some points though, not the "bubble" but the "Just seems to be a lot of prejudice over there between my history with them and now Derek's DelFuvian comments of late..." I think that is true for some people.  Calling this place a bubble just seems ridiculous to me, but I don't think he's that far off with respect to some of the negative reviews here (not all).
Indeed, DTF certainly isn't a bubble, but the negative reactions to MP and DS have been off the chart here and the response to the album is more negative than pretty much anywhere else.

This is also the only place that has discussed it in this much detail. There has also been quite a positive reaction including from some of MP and DS's biggest critics so I don't know why you or Portnoy for that matter are ignoring that.
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: Anxiety35 on October 24, 2017, 01:35:30 PM
Here are my initial thoughts that I posted in the other SOA thread...

-----------------------------------------

I think it's sold, but not a release that will stand the test of time. I like how it sounds (produced, engineered). Sounds powerful. I imagine that this wold be a fun live experience in concert.

My initial thoughts.

-->MP brings nothing new in the drum department. It's the same fills and patterns he has used for years (decades even). He's good at what he does but I'd like to see him progress or bring something new to the table. However, he does play to the song which is a very valuable quality for a drummer to have.

-->JSS sounds good and he is a good singer but I'm not sure if he is the right singer for this project. Best vocal track is Divine Addiction.

-->Bumblefoot is great.

-->Sheehan is great.

-->DS brings the most color to the project. I have always loved his lead tone. He adds a lot more to the keyboard department than he did in FII. You can hear snippets of his solo work, BCC, and Planet X in this release.

As far as Figaro's Whore, I think it's meant to be an intro to Divine Addiction. Might see it that way live. Divine Addiction is the most "sounds like another band" song. Like if Deep Purple and Rainbow merged.

There were times I was thinking "this sounds like Rainbow" or "this sounds like Deep Purple" or "this has a Pink Floyd vibe" or "this sounds like Led Zeppelin" or "this sounds like Uriah Heep" and whatnot. Nothing in the music really defining the band as Sons of Apollo. The scale runs and odd time signatures are there and I like that. But I think a lot of these were thrown into the middle of songs and as a result disrupted the songs. Kinda what was happening with the last couple of DT albums with MP. Why not write a song around the odd time signatures or chord progressions? I'm not asking for a DT part 2, but prog bands have a knack for being able to do that and do it well. The guys can play and I get it.

Just write a cohesive song.

I've listened to it twice. Favorite song is God of the Sun.

6.5/10 for me.

------------------------------------------------------------

I voted 6 on this thread. My vote was solely based on the music, not the drama made by MP & DS leading up to the release. After being able to listen to it in small chunks since then, I'm getting a better feel for the music. But I am still standing behind my statement, "Just write a cohesive song." The prog parts/solos/scales just thrown into songs, albeit display impressive musicianship, lends no value to the song.

It seems that the reviews are not too favorable here in this forum. Read comments on YouTube for the Lost in Oblivion video. Quite different than here. This community is geared towards DT and is looking for something other than what SOA have delivered.

Maybe a second release in 5 years will produce a better offering.
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: cramx3 on October 24, 2017, 01:37:09 PM
Was this a tweet today?  I am curious to find it.  I do think he has some points though, not the "bubble" but the "Just seems to be a lot of prejudice over there between my history with them and now Derek's DelFuvian comments of late..." I think that is true for some people.  Calling this place a bubble just seems ridiculous to me, but I don't think he's that far off with respect to some of the negative reviews here (not all).
Indeed, DTF certainly isn't a bubble, but the negative reactions to MP and DS have been off the chart here and the response to the album is more negative than pretty much anywhere else.

This is also the only place that has discussed it in this much detail. There has also been quite a positive reaction including from some of MP and DS's biggest critics so I don't know why you or Portnoy for that matter are ignoring that.

I dont disagree with that
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: The Walrus on October 24, 2017, 01:43:20 PM
This "Del Fuvian" garbage is so cringe. Is he a band member or a fucking superhero?

EDIT: This isn't the only place online with lukewarm reactions. I see them on various sites online. YouTube even has them. Facebook has them, literally on Mike's own Facebook. The way he frames this place tells me a few things: he reads this thread, he cares about what is said in this thread, and he holds a big grudge against fans who aren't drooling over everything he does with their noses six inches up his backside. Newsflash, Mike: lots of DT fans don't like every DT album, either. They still went out and bought your music and saw your concerts and talked about it all with their friends. And this "Del Fuvian" schtick is embarrassing. Call a spade a spade: he talked shit about DT and JR and you sat back and let it happen. Try and explain what that was about 10 years from now when you do a one-off reunion with DT, just like you had to tell Derek 20 years after the fact that you were the one "most upset" by his departure from DT.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: gzarruk on October 24, 2017, 01:50:13 PM
After quite a few listens to this album, and being disappointed with it, I wanted to make a better representation of what MP + DS are capable of doing. So, I made a playlist, the lenght of an actual album, with, in my opinion, a better selection of songs from Mike and Derek.

I think it works/flows pretty well, but maybe I should've included a couple more soft songs. What do you think?

1. Signs of the Time
2. Raise The Knife
3. Lost in Oblivion
4. Labyrinth
5. Burning My Soul
6. Hell's Kitchen
7. Lines in the Sand
8. God of The Sun
9. Trial of Tears

(78 minutes)
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: Stadler on October 24, 2017, 01:53:56 PM
it's like the Glimmer Twins (Mick and Keef), or the Toxic Twins (Joe and Stephen).
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Stadler on October 24, 2017, 01:56:52 PM
I'm a third of the way through, and I'm in the same place I was before:   Pretty damn good music, technically strong singing, but I would have preferred for a more operatic approach to the melodies and vocals.   JSS can do it, he's an amazing singer, but I think he plays it safe.   The same "metal scream" three times in "Coming Home" is a great example.   

You know the double neck guitar (Bumble) and the double neck bass (Billy)?   He needed the vocal equivalent of that.  He needed to be able to send it to the next level and so far I haven't heard him do that. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bill1971 on October 24, 2017, 02:31:31 PM
After quite a few listens to this album, and being disappointed with it, I wanted to make a better representation of what MP + DS are capable of doing. So, I made a playlist, the lenght of an actual album, with, in my opinion, a better selection of songs from Mike and Derek.

I think it works/flows pretty well, but maybe I should've included a couple more soft songs. What do you think?

1. Signs of the Time
2. Raise The Knife
3. Lost in Oblivion
4. Labyrinth
5. Burning My Soul
6. Hell's Kitchen
7. Lines in the Sand
8. God of The Sun
9. Trial of Tears

(78 minutes)

Here is a good representation on what DS and MP can do together

Raise the Knife – 11:40
Where Are You Know? – 7:27
Take Away My Pain – 6:49
You or Me – 6:24
Anna Lee – 6:36
Burning My Soul – 8:57
The Way It Used to Be – 7:47
Lines in the Sand – 13:32
CD 2
Just Let Me Breathe – 5:24
Peruvian Skies – 6:47
Trial of Tears – 12:54
Cover My Eyes – 3:23
Hollow Years – 6:26
New Millennium – 8:19
Speak to Me – 6:25
Labyrinth
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: pcs90 on October 24, 2017, 02:43:59 PM
While we're on the subject of what Derek can do, I found this video last night. Wish he'd do more like this. For all his talk about soul and emotion I rarely hear it, but this is perfect.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jP-aruQIdV0
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: ariich on October 24, 2017, 03:04:17 PM
Was this a tweet today?  I am curious to find it.  I do think he has some points though, not the "bubble" but the "Just seems to be a lot of prejudice over there between my history with them and now Derek's DelFuvian comments of late..." I think that is true for some people.  Calling this place a bubble just seems ridiculous to me, but I don't think he's that far off with respect to some of the negative reviews here (not all).
Indeed, DTF certainly isn't a bubble, but the negative reactions to MP and DS have been off the chart here and the response to the album is more negative than pretty much anywhere else.

This is also the only place that has discussed it in this much detail. There has also been quite a positive reaction including from some of MP and DS's biggest critics so I don't know why you or Portnoy for that matter are ignoring that.
Huh? Where did I ignore that?
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: Madman Shepherd on October 24, 2017, 03:07:43 PM
Was this a tweet today?  I am curious to find it.  I do think he has some points though, not the "bubble" but the "Just seems to be a lot of prejudice over there between my history with them and now Derek's DelFuvian comments of late..." I think that is true for some people.  Calling this place a bubble just seems ridiculous to me, but I don't think he's that far off with respect to some of the negative reviews here (not all).
Indeed, DTF certainly isn't a bubble, but the negative reactions to MP and DS have been off the chart here and the response to the album is more negative than pretty much anywhere else.

This is also the only place that has discussed it in this much detail. There has also been quite a positive reaction including from some of MP and DS's biggest critics so I don't know why you or Portnoy for that matter are ignoring that.
Huh? Where did I ignore that?

See previously quoted post.
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: The Silent Cody on October 24, 2017, 03:46:12 PM
5th listen today, and it's still 5 of 10 for mems. Though I truly enjoy God Of The Sun, especially Derek's solo. My another favourites are Alive, than Sign Of The Times. Then long is nothing, and Labyrinth. Other songs doesn't catch my ear. My opinion isn't driven with any tweets or comments from anybody, it's driven with my love to music. To sum it up, I will definitly go back to mentioned tracks and I'm looking forward for the next album. Guys definitly got to take some more time for writing, not only one week.
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: rumborak on October 24, 2017, 03:54:48 PM
EDIT: This isn't the only place online with lukewarm reactions. I see them on various sites online. YouTube even has them. Facebook has them, literally on Mike's own Facebook.

Actually, somebody (MP?) is virtually hovering over the SoA page and deletes any post that isn't 100% praise.
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: ariich on October 24, 2017, 04:20:39 PM
Was this a tweet today?  I am curious to find it.  I do think he has some points though, not the "bubble" but the "Just seems to be a lot of prejudice over there between my history with them and now Derek's DelFuvian comments of late..." I think that is true for some people.  Calling this place a bubble just seems ridiculous to me, but I don't think he's that far off with respect to some of the negative reviews here (not all).
Indeed, DTF certainly isn't a bubble, but the negative reactions to MP and DS have been off the chart here and the response to the album is more negative than pretty much anywhere else.

This is also the only place that has discussed it in this much detail. There has also been quite a positive reaction including from some of MP and DS's biggest critics so I don't know why you or Portnoy for that matter are ignoring that.
Huh? Where did I ignore that?

See previously quoted post.
The existence of strong negative reactions, and the fact that the overall response has been more negative than elsewhere, does not imply in any way an absence of positive reactions. Not sure why you inferred that from my post, but for clarity: that's not at all what I was saying.
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: The Walrus on October 24, 2017, 05:01:09 PM
EDIT: This isn't the only place online with lukewarm reactions. I see them on various sites online. YouTube even has them. Facebook has them, literally on Mike's own Facebook.

Actually, somebody (MP?) is virtually hovering over the SoA page and deletes any post that isn't 100% praise.

I believe it. I've seen several literally disappear on his own page while I was reading it, both this week and a few weeks ago (when he blocked me) - not surprised it happens on SoA
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: Madman Shepherd on October 24, 2017, 06:55:05 PM
Was this a tweet today?  I am curious to find it.  I do think he has some points though, not the "bubble" but the "Just seems to be a lot of prejudice over there between my history with them and now Derek's DelFuvian comments of late..." I think that is true for some people.  Calling this place a bubble just seems ridiculous to me, but I don't think he's that far off with respect to some of the negative reviews here (not all).
Indeed, DTF certainly isn't a bubble, but the negative reactions to MP and DS have been off the chart here and the response to the album is more negative than pretty much anywhere else.

This is also the only place that has discussed it in this much detail. There has also been quite a positive reaction including from some of MP and DS's biggest critics so I don't know why you or Portnoy for that matter are ignoring that.
Huh? Where did I ignore that?

See previously quoted post.
The existence of strong negative reactions, and the fact that the overall response has been more negative than elsewhere, does not imply in any way an absence of positive reactions. Not sure why you inferred that from my post, but for clarity: that's not at all what I was saying.

Yet you only focus on the negative thus ignoring the positive.
EDIT: This isn't the only place online with lukewarm reactions. I see them on various sites online. YouTube even has them. Facebook has them, literally on Mike's own Facebook.

Actually, somebody (MP?) is virtually hovering over the SoA page and deletes any post that isn't 100% praise.

I believe it. I've seen several literally disappear on his own page while I was reading it, both this week and a few weeks ago (when he blocked me) - not surprised it happens on SoA

Blocking people with negative yet constructive views? Did somebody say bubble?
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: ? on October 25, 2017, 03:04:57 AM
Was this a tweet today?  I am curious to find it.  I do think he has some points though, not the "bubble" but the "Just seems to be a lot of prejudice over there between my history with them and now Derek's DelFuvian comments of late..." I think that is true for some people.  Calling this place a bubble just seems ridiculous to me, but I don't think he's that far off with respect to some of the negative reviews here (not all).
Indeed, DTF certainly isn't a bubble, but the negative reactions to MP and DS have been off the chart here and the response to the album is more negative than pretty much anywhere else.

It was in the comments on this Facebook post

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=1936384026379230&id=116713035013014


My comment that was alluded to previously  in full:

Quote
Sorry to say but Rate your music has it quite low as well at 3.5 / 5 and there are quite a few lukewarm reviews around. So DTF is definitely not the only place online with negative comments.

Surpriced it's still there....
FYI a 3.5 rating at RYM is actually pretty good.
It is, but there are only 64 ratings at the moment, which is not that much. Even on other sites like Sputnikmusic and Progarchives there are only a dozen ratings or so, which shows that the interest in this band is not that high outside the core DT fanbase.
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: kaos2900 on October 25, 2017, 07:07:42 AM
The fact the core audience for this would be primarily DT fans makes the fact that MP and DS talked so much shit about DT even more ridiculous.
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: bl5150 on October 25, 2017, 07:09:36 AM
The fact the core audience for this would be primarily DT fans makes the fact that MP and DS talked so much shit about DT even more ridiculous.

yup
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: mikeyd23 on October 25, 2017, 07:14:47 AM
The fact the core audience for this would be primarily DT fans makes the fact that MP and DS talked so much shit about DT even more ridiculous.

yup

Yup yup
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: Mladen on October 25, 2017, 07:19:59 AM
I think there are a lot of people who were always aware of Dream Theater (individual members too) and liked them for their metal, in-your-face songs, but were never huge fans in general. Those people are getting hooked on Sons of Apollo, from what I can see in my circle of friends and acquaintances.
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: The Walrus on October 25, 2017, 07:35:36 AM
I think there are a lot of people who were always aware of Dream Theater (individual members too) and liked them for their metal, in-your-face songs, but were never huge fans in general. Those people are getting hooked on Sons of Apollo, from what I can see in my circle of friends and acquaintances.

That's my best friend, his favorite MP moments are actually in Dark Eternal Night, that's one of his all-time favorite DT songs - but he thinks SoA is pretty awful
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: ariich on October 25, 2017, 08:37:42 AM
I do find the banter strategy (assuming it's a strategy) a bit strange. I can only guess that they figure there are enough people who are disillusioned with DT (e.g. who were particularly disappointed) and so they're specifically targeting them, even at the expense of others. I would have thought in general it's better to try and spread your appeal as wide as possible. There are definitely cases where getting high levels of interest from a small niche is better in terms of sales, gigs, etc. then moderate interest from everyone, but I'm not sure that's the case here.
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: MirrorMask on October 25, 2017, 08:41:49 AM
The idea to draw attention from disappointed DT fans is just fine. The execution was quite bad however.
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: bill1971 on October 25, 2017, 08:44:38 AM
I think there are a lot of people who were always aware of Dream Theater (individual members too) and liked them for their metal, in-your-face songs, but were never huge fans in general. Those people are getting hooked on Sons of Apollo, from what I can see in my circle of friends and acquaintances.

That's my best friend, his favorite MP moments are actually in Dark Eternal Night, that's one of his all-time favorite DT songs - but he thinks SoA is pretty awful

Your friend is obviously biased because of Derek's comments. :)
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: mikeyd23 on October 25, 2017, 09:11:07 AM
I do find the banter strategy (assuming it's a strategy) a bit strange. I can only guess that they figure there are enough people who are disillusioned with DT (e.g. who were particularly disappointed) and so they're specifically targeting them, even at the expense of others. I would have thought in general it's better to try and spread your appeal as wide as possible. There are definitely cases where getting high levels of interest from a small niche is better in terms of sales, gigs, etc. then moderate interest from everyone, but I'm not sure that's the case here.

The strategy doesn't make any sense. If they wanted to attract disillusioned DT fans, let the music do the talking and attract those folks as opposed to alienating DT fans by insulting DT.
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: bill1971 on October 25, 2017, 09:40:12 AM
I do find the banter strategy (assuming it's a strategy) a bit strange. I can only guess that they figure there are enough people who are disillusioned with DT (e.g. who were particularly disappointed) and so they're specifically targeting them, even at the expense of others. I would have thought in general it's better to try and spread your appeal as wide as possible. There are definitely cases where getting high levels of interest from a small niche is better in terms of sales, gigs, etc. then moderate interest from everyone, but I'm not sure that's the case here.

The strategy doesn't make any sense. If they wanted to attract disillusioned DT fans, let the music do the talking and attract those folks as opposed to alienating DT fans by insulting DT.

The entire thing is weird.
MP quits the band and puts them in a tough spot.
They succeed even with MP putting THEM in a tough spot.
MP then complains about them and insults them now tries to appeal to the fans who are disillusioned with DT because he quit on them.
Joins up with DS who MP fired and stands by while DS insults Rudess who MP was part of choosing  to replace DS with.
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: The Walrus on October 25, 2017, 09:44:58 AM
Ego's a bitch, innit.
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: Nick on October 25, 2017, 09:49:18 AM
With the latest round of online drama all I can say it Portnoy can't have it two ways. You can't accuse a group of people living in a bubble while routinely having non-positive posts deleted. If that's the type of FB page he wants that's fine and good, but at least recognize that you want that bubble experience.
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: bill1971 on October 25, 2017, 09:53:14 AM
With the latest round of online drama all I can say it Portnoy can't have it two ways. You can't accuse a group of people living in a bubble while routinely having non-positive posts deleted. If that's the type of FB page he wants that's fine and good, but at least recognize that you want that bubble experience.

Exactly, if this place was a bubble, Bosk would delete all positive reviews of the album, including his own.
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: ariich on October 25, 2017, 10:07:16 AM
With the latest round of online drama all I can say it Portnoy can't have it two ways. You can't accuse a group of people living in a bubble while routinely having non-positive posts deleted. If that's the type of FB page he wants that's fine and good, but at least recognize that you want that bubble experience.

Exactly, if this place was a bubble, Bosk would delete all positive reviews of the album, including his own.
In fairness, bosk has banned himself before. :lol
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: bosk1 on October 25, 2017, 10:08:30 AM
With the latest round of online drama all I can say it Portnoy can't have it two ways. You can't accuse a group of people living in a bubble while routinely having non-positive posts deleted. If that's the type of FB page he wants that's fine and good, but at least recognize that you want that bubble experience.

I dunno.  I'm completely over whatever he or anyone else chooses to think.  If he wants an accurate view, he can read for himself and talk to me any time.  He knows that.  From there, whatever he chooses to do or not do is a matter of his own choice and no one else's.
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: bosk1 on October 25, 2017, 10:08:48 AM
With the latest round of online drama all I can say it Portnoy can't have it two ways. You can't accuse a group of people living in a bubble while routinely having non-positive posts deleted. If that's the type of FB page he wants that's fine and good, but at least recognize that you want that bubble experience.

Exactly, if this place was a bubble, Bosk would delete all positive reviews of the album, including his own.
In fairness, bosk has banned himself before. :lol

:glare:
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: Architeuthis on October 25, 2017, 10:25:31 AM
I'm really liking Divine Addiction. I wonder if the BOSTON reference is unintentional or a nugget?
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: bosk1 on October 25, 2017, 10:36:44 AM
I don't get any Boston from that song.  But it is an intensely fun song for a lot of reasons.
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: Stadler on October 25, 2017, 11:03:04 AM
I do find the banter strategy (assuming it's a strategy) a bit strange. I can only guess that they figure there are enough people who are disillusioned with DT (e.g. who were particularly disappointed) and so they're specifically targeting them, even at the expense of others. I would have thought in general it's better to try and spread your appeal as wide as possible. There are definitely cases where getting high levels of interest from a small niche is better in terms of sales, gigs, etc. then moderate interest from everyone, but I'm not sure that's the case here.

The strategy doesn't make any sense. If they wanted to attract disillusioned DT fans, let the music do the talking and attract those folks as opposed to alienating DT fans by insulting DT.

The entire thing is weird.
MP quits the band and puts them in a tough spot.
They succeed even with MP putting THEM in a tough spot.
MP then complains about them and insults them now tries to appeal to the fans who are disillusioned with DT because he quit on them.
Joins up with DS who MP fired and stands by while DS insults Rudess who MP was part of choosing  to replace DS with.

This is one side of a two-sided story.

MP discusses with band taking a break.
They say no, and calls his bluff.  He offers to resume his duties, but they spurn him.
They have the exact same success (maybe a little less) that they had before, by calling on a close friend of the singer.
MP admits to roiled emotions, but generally handles the relationship with respect and dignity, including reigniting friendships with at least 2 if not 3 of the four remaining members.
Rekindles (again; PSMS) a working relationship with DS, who MP asked to leave, and stands by while DS engages in some light-hearted, ironic jokes that poke fun at, among other things, the notion that MP asked him to leave, and, because he is a keyboard player, pokes fun at the guy that replaced him.


Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: bosk1 on October 25, 2017, 11:15:31 AM
Even by Portnoy's own account, a great deal of that is inaccurate. 
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: Adami on October 25, 2017, 11:20:35 AM
Yea, that’s a spin. Not a legitimate side.
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: bill1971 on October 25, 2017, 11:21:10 AM
I'm really liking Divine Addiction. I wonder if the BOSTON reference is unintentional or a nugget?

I get more of Deep Purple vibe. It is probably my second favorite on the album.
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: The Walrus on October 25, 2017, 11:21:29 AM
Quote
MP discusses with band taking a break.

Somewhat inaccurate - it wasn't a 'discussion' but rather Mike asking the band to go on hiatus. Nobody else in the band was thinking of the break.

Quote
They say no, and calls his bluff.  He offers to resume his duties, but they spurn him.

Spurn means to reject with contempt or disdain. Not what happened. Mike decided 'okay, I need a break then' so the band went and got a new drummer. When Mike realized he wasn't going to be A7X's new full time drummer, then he asked to get back in. No 'spurning' just cold reality.

Quote
MP admits to roiled emotions, but generally handles the relationship with respect and dignity, including reigniting friendships with at least 2 if not 3 of the four remaining members.

Also inaccurate - MP banned discussion of James's music and touring on his forum (a thread I made about JLB's US tour was deleted with no explanation, and the mods told me to fuck off when I PMed about its deletion). By all accounts there is bad blood between MP and James. I would say of all the people involved, MP is the one who has handled it worst.

Quote
Rekindles (again; PSMS) a working relationship with DS, who MP asked to leave, and stands by while DS engages in some light-hearted, ironic jokes that poke fun at, among other things, the notion that MP asked him to leave, and, because he is a keyboard player, pokes fun at the guy that replaced him.

There's a lot of spin you're putting on this part
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: Architeuthis on October 25, 2017, 11:32:15 AM
I don't get any Boston from that song.  But it is an intensely fun song for a lot of reasons.
Right around the 3:32 mark. Just for a few seconds. Can you hear it?
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: Architeuthis on October 25, 2017, 11:36:36 AM
I'm really liking Divine Addiction. I wonder if the BOSTON reference is unintentional or a nugget?

I get more of Deep Purple vibe. It is probably my second favorite on the album.
I definitely hear the Deep Purple vibe even more so. The Boston reference us posted above.
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: Mark Levinson Jr. on October 25, 2017, 11:41:26 AM
Quote
MP discusses with band taking a break.

Somewhat inaccurate - it wasn't a 'discussion' but rather Mike asking the band to go on hiatus. Nobody else in the band was thinking of the break.

Quote
They say no, and calls his bluff.  He offers to resume his duties, but they spurn him.

Spurn means to reject with contempt or disdain. Not what happened. Mike decided 'okay, I need a break then' so the band went and got a new drummer. When Mike realized he wasn't going to be A7X's new full time drummer, then he asked to get back in. No 'spurning' just cold reality.

Quote
MP admits to roiled emotions, but generally handles the relationship with respect and dignity, including reigniting friendships with at least 2 if not 3 of the four remaining members.

Also inaccurate - MP banned discussion of James's music and touring on his forum (a thread I made about JLB's US tour was deleted with no explanation, and the mods told me to fuck off when I PMed about its deletion). By all accounts there is bad blood between MP and James. I would say of all the people involved, MP is the one who has handled it worst.

Quote
Rekindles (again; PSMS) a working relationship with DS, who MP asked to leave, and stands by while DS engages in some light-hearted, ironic jokes that poke fun at, among other things, the notion that MP asked him to leave, and, because he is a keyboard player, pokes fun at the guy that replaced him.

There's a lot of spin you're putting on this part

I heard that when MP asked to rejoin, Mangini already quit his job and moved his family across the country. Possibly also started working on ADTOE. If I quit my job, they'd HAVE to replace me. I'd no right to fuss about it, no legal claim to my old job, etc.
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: bosk1 on October 25, 2017, 11:45:50 AM
I don't get any Boston from that song.  But it is an intensely fun song for a lot of reasons.
Right around the 3:32 mark. Just for a few seconds. Can you hear it?

The keyboard solo?  I hear Derek noodling away, but I don't hear any reference to a particular band or song.  Not saying it isn't there.  But I'm not making any connection.  Which Boston song?
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: El Barto on October 25, 2017, 11:51:25 AM
As somebody who genuinely believes his departure made two members of the band absolutely fucking ecstatic, I think spurn is a reasonable description to their rejection.
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: Adami on October 25, 2017, 11:57:17 AM
As somebody who genuinely believes his departure made two members of the band absolutely fucking ecstatic, I think spurn is a reasonable description to their rejection.

Eh. I doubt JM cared. He seems like he's happier, but I doubt he was ever ecstatic about anything. So one member being really happy doesn't mean he was spurred. Plus it's not like James had a say in any of it anyway. It was likely Petrucci and Ruddess who made the ultimate decision.
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: The Walrus on October 25, 2017, 11:58:17 AM
As somebody who genuinely believes his departure made two members of the band absolutely fucking ecstatic, I think spurn is a reasonable description to their rejection.

What makes you believe that though? Like, is there proof, or are you just extrapolating? I can think James, can't think of the second name you're hinting at.
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: bill1971 on October 25, 2017, 12:00:35 PM
Quote
MP discusses with band taking a break.

Somewhat inaccurate - it wasn't a 'discussion' but rather Mike asking the band to go on hiatus. Nobody else in the band was thinking of the break.

Quote
They say no, and calls his bluff.  He offers to resume his duties, but they spurn him.

Spurn means to reject with contempt or disdain. Not what happened. Mike decided 'okay, I need a break then' so the band went and got a new drummer. When Mike realized he wasn't going to be A7X's new full time drummer, then he asked to get back in. No 'spurning' just cold reality.

Quote
MP admits to roiled emotions, but generally handles the relationship with respect and dignity, including reigniting friendships with at least 2 if not 3 of the four remaining members.

Also inaccurate - MP banned discussion of James's music and touring on his forum (a thread I made about JLB's US tour was deleted with no explanation, and the mods told me to fuck off when I PMed about its deletion). By all accounts there is bad blood between MP and James. I would say of all the people involved, MP is the one who has handled it worst.

Quote
Rekindles (again; PSMS) a working relationship with DS, who MP asked to leave, and stands by while DS engages in some light-hearted, ironic jokes that poke fun at, among other things, the notion that MP asked him to leave, and, because he is a keyboard player, pokes fun at the guy that replaced him.

There's a lot of spin you're putting on this part

Thank you, I did not have the patience to respond without sounding grumpy. :)
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: Architeuthis on October 25, 2017, 12:00:43 PM
I don't get any Boston from that song.  But it is an intensely fun song for a lot of reasons.
Right around the 3:32 mark. Just for a few seconds. Can you hear it?

The keyboard solo?  I hear Derek noodling away, but I don't hear any reference to a particular band or song.  Not saying it isn't there.  But I'm not making any connection.  Which Boston song?
Yes the keyboard solo. Same riff as the beginning of Foreplay/Longtime. I wouldn't be a bit surprised if DS is a Tom Scholz fan..
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: mikeyd23 on October 25, 2017, 12:21:31 PM
Quote
MP discusses with band taking a break.

Somewhat inaccurate - it wasn't a 'discussion' but rather Mike asking the band to go on hiatus. Nobody else in the band was thinking of the break.

Quote
They say no, and calls his bluff.  He offers to resume his duties, but they spurn him.

Spurn means to reject with contempt or disdain. Not what happened. Mike decided 'okay, I need a break then' so the band went and got a new drummer. When Mike realized he wasn't going to be A7X's new full time drummer, then he asked to get back in. No 'spurning' just cold reality.

Quote
MP admits to roiled emotions, but generally handles the relationship with respect and dignity, including reigniting friendships with at least 2 if not 3 of the four remaining members.

Also inaccurate - MP banned discussion of James's music and touring on his forum (a thread I made about JLB's US tour was deleted with no explanation, and the mods told me to fuck off when I PMed about its deletion). By all accounts there is bad blood between MP and James. I would say of all the people involved, MP is the one who has handled it worst.

Quote
Rekindles (again; PSMS) a working relationship with DS, who MP asked to leave, and stands by while DS engages in some light-hearted, ironic jokes that poke fun at, among other things, the notion that MP asked him to leave, and, because he is a keyboard player, pokes fun at the guy that replaced him.

There's a lot of spin you're putting on this part

Yeah pretty much what Kattelox said. Actually there's a lot more I could refute about those highly spun statements, but it's probably not worth it.
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: Dave_Manchester on October 25, 2017, 12:32:23 PM
Another point, not minor to me, that needs to be remembered when it comes to the "MP offered to resume his duties" part of the narrative, is that he specifically said that he 'offered' to go back "for the fans", even though he didn't want to. I can't remember the exact wording (it's somewhere on the ADTOE thread on his forum), but it was something like "I offered to go back, for the fans, even though I really needed a break, but they decided to move on without me. Sorry gang, I tried!"

This naturally then got spun by the MP Warriors as "selfless Mike is willing to suffer for his fans", but put yourself (Stadler) in Dream Theater's shoes. They are all intensely dedicated professionals who give all their energy to the band. How should JP and JR feel by having a drummer say "My heart isn't in this at all, but anyway I'll come back and go through the motions. For the fans, of course." Why would they settle for that?

Sorry for contributing to this tangent on the SoA thread, but it got brought up and I wanted to address it. For me, it's irrelevant MP offered to (as you phrased it) "resume his duties". The problem is that he directly said that his heart wouldn't have been in it anymore, so why should Dream Theater accommodate someone like that?
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: bill1971 on October 25, 2017, 12:46:13 PM
Another point, not minor to me, that needs to be remembered when it comes to the "MP offered to resume his duties" part of the narrative, is that he specifically said that he 'offered' to go back "for the fans", even though he didn't want to. I can't remember the exact wording (it's somewhere on the ADTOE thread on his forum), but it was something like "I offered to go back, for the fans, even though I really needed a break, but they decided to move on without me. Sorry gang, I tried!"

This naturally then got spun by the MP Warriors as "selfless Mike is willing to suffer for his fans", but put yourself (Stadler) in Dream Theater's shoes. They are all intensely dedicated professionals who give all their energy to the band. How should JP and JR feel by having a drummer say "My heart isn't in this at all, but anyway I'll come back and go through the motions. For the fans, of course." Why would they settle for that?

Sorry for contributing to this tangent on the SoA thread, but it got brought up and I wanted to address it. For me, it's irrelevant MP offered to (as you phrased it) "resume his duties". The problem is that he directly said that his heart wouldn't have been in it anymore, so why should Dream Theater accommodate someone like that?

"Fairly recently, I reached out to the guys to try and make amends and offered to reconcile for the sake of having peace back in our lives… (plus I know how much it meant to a lot of the fans…)

"I figured it was still possible to try and save us, because they hadn't made any announcements yet or begun any public activity with another drummer… but sadly, they declined my offer (well, actually their lawyer did… they didn't even tell me themselves….)

"Sorry, gang, I honestly gave it my all…


 
On an completely unrelated note a few days earlier A7X announce MP no longer their drummer. Also at that time. 2010

In an interview over the weekend with LA Weekly, AVENGED manager Larry Jacobson said, "The plan had always been for Mike Portnoy to play with the band through 2010. Nothing changed there but it was confusing (because) Mike gave interviews suggesting he may be touring with the band beyond 2010."
Read more at https://www.blabbermouth.net/news/mike-portnoy-i-tried-to-rejoin-dream-theater-but-was-rebuffed.html#8vqEJAg2f7ZXKr25.99


Being that Petrucci and Rudess are not stupid I am sure they realized the only reason he wanted to come back is because his Avenged plans fell through. So why turn away Mangini who clearly wants to be there for someone who does not.


Oh by the way I really like the song Labyrinth. I am looking forward to what set list they will tour with
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: The Walrus on October 25, 2017, 12:50:39 PM
Yeah I'd also like to apologize for contributing to the derailment and possible disappearing enjoyment from this thread. I just feel like there's good stuff to talk about here (gossip, I suppose, if we want to put it bluntly) since it's quite obviously reinforced opinions on some of these musicians and their work over the last few years. I'll pipe down.
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: ariich on October 25, 2017, 01:04:12 PM
Yeah I'd also like to apologize for contributing to the derailment and possible disappearing enjoyment from this thread. I just feel like there's good stuff to talk about here (gossip, I suppose, if we want to put it bluntly) since it's quite obviously reinforced opinions on some of these musicians and their work over the last few years. I'll pipe down.
Honestly not meant as a criticism, but this stuff has been discussed here pretty non-stop since 2010. :lol

But yes, could we get it back on topic, i.e. how we rate the album?
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: Architeuthis on October 25, 2017, 01:07:55 PM
Yeah Labyrinth and Alive are fantastic tracks. The whole album is getting better with each listen, JSS vocals are growing on me alot too.
 The jam section of Labyrinth starting around 5:45 kind of has a Glass Prison feel to it but a little more melodic imo. It's good to know MP is being influenced by himself (I mean that in a good way) and expanding on it.
 Opus Maximus is bad-ass!!!  :metal
It would be nice to see this thread focus more on the SOA album. Btw, I gave it a 9/10 after the first two listens..
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: MirrorMask on October 25, 2017, 01:15:31 PM
I'll maintain my 7, to be considered as 7.5.

Songs that are bad: none (well, maybe Figaro's Whore is kinda pointless)
Songs that would have benefitted from more working: half the album basically (I often find myself forgetting which song I'm listening to when Jeff finally starts singing again after what seems to be 10 minutes)
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: bill1971 on October 25, 2017, 01:16:11 PM
I would also like to apologize to contributing to derailing the thread. I wont comment anymore on that back stuff, thanks for being patient Bosk. :)

I rated it a 6/10

What I put on rate your music site.

Haven't I heard this before?
The individual playing here is very good of course but the album has a strange deja vu feeling. Every song reminds me of another song. I think this may have to do with Mike Portnoy's control of the band or maybe they didn't spend enough time in the studio refining it.

Sheehan's bass playing is top notch, it's more of a supporting role here than lately but he is always solid and interesting. Soto's singing is very good, although I know he is capable of much more listening to his solo work and work live with Trans Siberian Orchestra, I am not sure if that has to do with him being restrained or directed on what to do. Ron Thal is the standout here. I was not familiar with him before this other than by name but his playing is very good both technical and expressive.  Derek Sherninian is also good but his sounds can get repetitive but it is nice to hear his familiar sound again. Mike Portnoy is an amazing drummer, no doubt about it but after being a fan of his since 1994 I feel like his drumming has hit a creative wall in the past few years.

My favorite track is Labyrinth, the one song I will likely go back and listen to multiple times.

I hope this band continues past 2018 I have a feeling with more time to craft an album this group is capable of an amazing album.
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: cramx3 on October 25, 2017, 01:31:13 PM
I'll maintain my 7, to be considered as 7.5.

Songs that are bad: none (well, maybe Figaro's Whore is kinda pointless)
Songs that would have benefitted from more working: half the album basically (I often find myself forgetting which song I'm listening to when Jeff finally starts singing again after what seems to be 10 minutes)

Yea I've been listening more and more and feel pretty much the exact same.  My initial opinions haven't really changed.  Nothing is bad (besides Figaro's whore) but nothing really stands out as something that is memorable and makes me want to keep coming back.  I'd probably check them out live when they come to my area.
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: Sycsa on October 25, 2017, 01:36:03 PM
Bumblefoot's Coming Home solo: https://www.facebook.com/SonsOfApollo1/videos/229170190950121/

I gotta say, I'm in love with his fretless guitar, it sounds so cool. I never really knew before that fretless electric guitar was a thing, but now I'll totally be on the lookout for it. I think this is the biggest achievement of this album for me.
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: cramx3 on October 25, 2017, 01:56:48 PM
Bumblefoot's Coming Home solo: https://www.facebook.com/SonsOfApollo1/videos/229170190950121/

I gotta say, I'm in love with his fretless guitar, it sounds so cool. I never really knew before that fretless electric guitar was a thing, but now I'll totally be on the lookout for it. I think this is the biggest achievement of this album for me.

 :metal that's sick, love his playing on this album
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: Öxölklöfför on October 25, 2017, 02:04:41 PM
I don't get any Boston from that song.  But it is an intensely fun song for a lot of reasons.
Right around the 3:32 mark. Just for a few seconds. Can you hear it?

The keyboard solo?  I hear Derek noodling away, but I don't hear any reference to a particular band or song.  Not saying it isn't there.  But I'm not making any connection.  Which Boston song?
Yes the keyboard solo. Same riff as the beginning of Foreplay/Longtime. I wouldn't be a bit surprised if DS is a Tom Scholz fan..

Yes, it does actually sounds like the same riff.
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: Architeuthis on October 25, 2017, 02:12:25 PM
Indeed!
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: PetFish on October 25, 2017, 04:39:29 PM
MP admits to roiled emotions, but generally handles the relationship with respect and dignity, including reigniting friendships with at least 2 if not 3 of the four remaining members.

 :facepalm:

Just when I think you can't top yourself.
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: antigoon on October 25, 2017, 04:48:00 PM
Hey Mike, if you're reading this I want you to know that I really didn't like the way your blood spilled on my brand new floor. You were right.
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: Ben_Jamin on October 25, 2017, 05:19:52 PM
I liked the two promo tracks.  I thought they were "very good," but perhaps not great.  From what I had read, I assumed there was a SEVERE dropoff from those two tracks.  That, and Mike's and Derek's online behavior, had me expecting this to be a "low 7" or a 6.  After two listens, I give it a solid 8/10 and am pretty happy with it.  Full review here:  https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=50945.msg2369087#msg2369087

Overall, this exceeded expectations for me.  It's a shame that Mike and Derek shot themselves in the foot by pissing of a segment of their built-in fanbase who either won't give this a chance or whose opinions will be tainted because of the way those two have acted in the lead-up to the album's release.  Really bad move on their parts.


You know. Maybe they did it on purpose to weed out the haterz and the ones whom won't let the music speak for itself.

I gave it a 5 as I let the music speak. Don't care about twitter or promotional reviews. Them doing the commentary was nice, I just payed attention to the song, plus the Mynotaur part was neat to hear about.

Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Schurftkut on October 25, 2017, 06:38:15 PM
https://www.goingofftrack.com/2017/10/25/sons-apollo/ at least this one's a bit different from most interviews
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: ReaperKK on October 25, 2017, 06:42:47 PM
Bumblefoot's Coming Home solo: https://www.facebook.com/SonsOfApollo1/videos/229170190950121/

I gotta say, I'm in love with his fretless guitar, it sounds so cool. I never really knew before that fretless electric guitar was a thing, but now I'll totally be on the lookout for it. I think this is the biggest achievement of this album for me.

 :metal that's sick, love his playing on this album

That's awesome! I need to check out more of Ron's stuff.

I know Guthrie also plays fretless guitar as well https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yshLWYjMijo
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ErHaO on October 25, 2017, 07:01:17 PM
Oh totally. Like I said, I haven't seen them. I generally don't read reviews anyway. I just hope the reviews from the very very odd places "koreauguitar" or whatever, or sites that looked like they were just made for the reviews, aren't being seen as genuinely reliable reviews.

A lot of more legit looking sites and sites I know give the album solid/good reviews as well.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: rumborak on October 25, 2017, 09:32:56 PM
https://www.goingofftrack.com/2017/10/25/sons-apollo/ at least this one's a bit different from most interviews

(https://www.goingofftrack.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/Sons-of-Apollo.jpg)

What the....
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: SystematicThought on October 25, 2017, 09:48:04 PM
Don't worry, it's an edited take on the group photo. They just made it look a bit creepier

(https://www.sonsofapollo.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/soa-new-band-photo-copy600-1.png?quality=100.3016082509160)
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Adami on October 25, 2017, 09:49:46 PM
Yea...I have to say, a bunch of 50-60 year old men looking super tough in a dark room is NOT a good idea.

I mean that picture basically says "Y'all gonna get raped"
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Mebert78 on October 25, 2017, 09:52:42 PM
Not sure if anyone has pointed this out yet, but the melody of the choruses for "Coming Home"  and "Alive " are pretty similar. 


"I'm coming hooooooooome."

"I am aliiiiiiiiiiiiiiiive."


I'm enjoying both songs. Just an observation though.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Adami on October 25, 2017, 09:54:55 PM
Not sure if anyone has pointed this out yet, but the melody of the choruses for "Coming Home"  and "Alive " are pretty similar. 


"I'm coming hooooooooome.
"
"I am aliiiiiiiiiiiiiiiive."


I'm enjoying both songs. Just an observation though.

Yea, I noted that when I listened to the samples on Itunes. It's basically identical, especially with MP's response vocals.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: SystematicThought on October 25, 2017, 10:03:07 PM
Yea...I have to say, a bunch of 50-60 year old men looking super tough in a dark room is NOT a good idea.

I mean that picture basically says "Y'all gonna get raped"
I've had the same problem with DT promo pics for the past decade or so.
Especially this one. The camo pants, the jacket(s), the chain pants, the background.  :facepalm: When you see this photo, what kind of music do you think they play?
(https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/QOQAAOSwA4dWHd5z/s-l1600.jpg)
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Adami on October 25, 2017, 10:04:37 PM
Oh yea, that's a creepy pic. I think the SoA pic is a bit worse only because they look like they're in Jigsaw's basement.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: SystematicThought on October 25, 2017, 10:08:25 PM
Both pics do a good job of representing my face when I was listening to Sons of Apollo.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Lethean on October 25, 2017, 10:14:17 PM
I don't have a problem with either picture.  They're just typical metal band pics.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: The Silent Cody on October 25, 2017, 11:25:32 PM
https://youtu.be/QAA1AE1nigo
I dunno if somebody posted it before, stusio outtakes part 2. Fun to watch, Ron is my hero here definitly  :lol :lol :lol
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: nobloodyname on October 26, 2017, 12:27:01 AM
I mean that picture basically says "Y'all gonna get raped"

Good grief.
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: Fritzinger on October 26, 2017, 04:05:10 AM
While listening to PS, I thought about how the band is going to realize this live. My bet is, Figaro will be come a way longer keyboard solo and the drum break in Lost In Oblivion will become a MP drum solo. Any guesses?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Fritzinger on October 26, 2017, 04:07:57 AM
After quite a few listens to this album, and being disappointed with it, I wanted to make a better representation of what MP + DS are capable of doing. So, I made a playlist, the lenght of an actual album, with, in my opinion, a better selection of songs from Mike and Derek.


Here is a good representation on what DS and MP can do together when JP is involved

Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: MirrorMask on October 26, 2017, 04:18:45 AM
While listening to PS, I thought about how the band is going to realize this live. My bet is, Figaro will be come a way longer keyboard solo and the drum break in Lost In Oblivion will become a MP drum solo. Any guesses?

Never thought about Opus Maximus, but yeah, I wanted to suggest too how Figaro's Whore may more than likely become a longer improv piece.

I think they're gonna play the entire album, of course there will also be covers but I don't think any of the 9 songs will remain out of the setlist.
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: ReaperKK on October 26, 2017, 04:56:23 AM
I wouldn't be surprised if they played the entire album. I'm curious as to what else they'll play, maybe they'll have some b-sides.

I will check them out if they come to town.
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: wolfking on October 26, 2017, 05:01:23 AM
I still haven't listened to the album.  I feel somewhat badass.......

I probably should though.
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: MirrorMask on October 26, 2017, 05:04:15 AM
Yeah, you should, it's not perfect but it's quite good and enjoyable.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Hourglass Prison on October 26, 2017, 06:22:39 AM
Put enough monkeys in a room with a typewriter and they'll eventually write Shakespeare; put 5 monkeys in a room for 2 weeks with some gear and they'll write Psychotic Symphony.

[quote lerxt] Who's going to clean all those typewriters?!
[/quote]

Damn, beat me to it! Lol
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Hourglass Prison on October 26, 2017, 06:31:29 AM
Yea...I have to say, a bunch of 50-60 year old men looking super tough in a dark room is NOT a good idea.

I mean that picture basically says "Y'all gonna get raped"
I've had the same problem with DT promo pics for the past decade or so.
Especially this one. The camo pants, the jacket(s), the chain pants, the background.  :facepalm: When you see this photo, what kind of music do you think they play?
(https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/QOQAAOSwA4dWHd5z/s-l1600.jpg)

For me, this one always threw me off simply because it’s awkward. Aside from JMX, none of them seem to know what to do with their hands.
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: Dave_Manchester on October 26, 2017, 06:36:20 AM
Never thought about Opus Maximus, but yeah, I wanted to suggest too how Figaro's Whore may more than likely become a longer improv piece.

Coming Home would work very well as an extended live piece in my opinion. That slowed down 'Who'-like section at the 2:45 mark has lots of space for improvisation. It actually reminds of the Beyond This Life bassline that Dream Theater used for their Live at Budokan jam, and I wouldn't be surprised to see SoA do something similar with Coming Home.

As for covers, I have a hunch they'll avoid doing songs from their own histories. They want this to be an entirely new thing for them. I think Portnoy's very good at the conceptual side of music and concerts, so perhaps he'll come up with a bunch of covers based around a theme (connected with the band name or something). I dunno. But if they play a DT song, I'll be extremely surprised, I don't think he'll want SoA material alongside DT material. As I said, I'm basing that on nothing other than a hunch.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: IDontNotDoThings on October 26, 2017, 06:40:36 AM
Yea...I have to say, a bunch of 50-60 year old men looking super tough in a dark room is NOT a good idea.

I mean that picture basically says "Y'all gonna get raped"
I've had the same problem with DT promo pics for the past decade or so.
Especially this one. The camo pants, the jacket(s), the chain pants, the background.  :facepalm: When you see this photo, what kind of music do you think they play?
(https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/QOQAAOSwA4dWHd5z/s-l1600.jpg)

For me, this one always threw me off simply because it’s awkward. Aside from JMX, none of them seem to know what to do with their hands.

I can't be the only one who originally thought this was a painting, right?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Mladen on October 26, 2017, 06:43:57 AM
That's their most awkward photo in the post-2010 phase. MM looks completely lost, as if he's trying to say "wait, how do I make a face in a metal band photo shoot?"  :lol

This is one of their better ones, though:

(https://musicplayers.com/features/bands_general/2011/images/dreamtheater2011.jpg)
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Dave_Manchester on October 26, 2017, 06:48:32 AM
In my lovingly framed photo with the band on their DT12 tour, only myself and Petrucci are smiling (awkwardly it should be said) while the other 4 look like Monty Burns on a bad day, all moody glowering and sullen misery. Between my unshaven look (9 hour flight earlier that day) and JP's beard we look like a pair of insane survivalists who've taken hostages. Don't get me wrong they were absolutely awesome to meet, but it can't be easy doing that many 'photo shoots' when your mind is on a very complex 3-hour set of music an hour later.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: CDrice on October 26, 2017, 06:57:46 AM
Yea...I have to say, a bunch of 50-60 year old men looking super tough in a dark room is NOT a good idea.

I mean that picture basically says "Y'all gonna get raped"
I've had the same problem with DT promo pics for the past decade or so.
Especially this one. The camo pants, the jacket(s), the chain pants, the background.  :facepalm: When you see this photo, what kind of music do you think they play?
(https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/QOQAAOSwA4dWHd5z/s-l1600.jpg)

I'm not sure what I feel is the most disturbing. Is it JP's intense gaze or Mike subtle smirk?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: MirrorMask on October 26, 2017, 07:02:13 AM
In my lovingly framed photo with the band on their DT12 tour, only myself and Petrucci are smiling (awkwardly it should be said) while the other 4 look like Monty Burns on a bad day, all moody glowering and sullen misery. Between my unshaven look (9 hour flight earlier that day) and JP's beard we look like a pair of insane survivalists who've taken hostages. Don't get me wrong they were absolutely awesome to meet, but it can't be easy doing that many 'photo shoots' when your mind is on a very complex 3-hour set of music an hour later.

Just practice a smile and be done with it, I'd say. I've seen Lzzy Hale doing that, when I was standing in line to get a photo with her, all of a sudden she pulls out this big, wide-teeth smile and that's what she did for me as well. Maybe it's the same one she pulls out for everyone, but who cares? she was kind enough to do it, and I have a nice pic with her smiling.
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: MirrorMask on October 26, 2017, 07:04:25 AM
From interviews it looks like Lines in the Sand is basically a given.

My hunch is another couple of more "obscure" cover songs in the set, and as encore, anthems everyone knows, maybe a Guns n' Roses track and something from Malmsteen, since Bumblefoot and JSS' past.
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: erwinrafael on October 26, 2017, 07:14:24 AM
I am slowly starting to accept Labyrinth. The first half is good. The ending of the instrumental is good. I just feel meh for the instrumental sections that keep on repeating patterns (which is basically why I also don't like much of the 12SS songs).
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: MirrorMask on October 26, 2017, 07:25:06 AM
My wild guess at a setlist:

God of the Sun
Coming Home
Labyrinth
Figaro's Whore
Divine Addiction
Lines in the Sand
Alive
another cover song
Opus Maximus
Lost in Oblivion
another cover song
Signs of the Times
==========
cover song (famous)
cover song (famous)

Something like that.
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: DragonAttack on October 26, 2017, 07:31:55 AM
Not quite what I was expecting.  Surprised at the mellowness and the spoken lyrics.  Will take a while to get a grip on this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D_1__V-o12w

(Not quite the original title I was led to believe)
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: cramx3 on October 26, 2017, 07:42:39 AM
I think Derek said in interviews there will be solo spots for everyone so I'm guessing the entire album will be played with solos and maybe a couple covers.  I'm guessing Lines in the Sand and maybe some more Van Halen? 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: rumborak on October 26, 2017, 07:46:00 AM
https://youtu.be/QAA1AE1nigo
I dunno if somebody posted it before, stusio outtakes part 2. Fun to watch, Ron is my hero here definitly  :lol :lol :lol

What a shame about the "Tarkus" thing. It's a lot cooler when played on the piano, too bad DS ended up playing it on the keyboard.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Mebert78 on October 26, 2017, 07:51:50 AM
Not sure if anyone has pointed this out yet, but the melody of the choruses for "Coming Home"  and "Alive " are pretty similar. 


"I'm coming hooooooooome.
"
"I am aliiiiiiiiiiiiiiiive."


I'm enjoying both songs. Just an observation though.

Yea, I noted that when I listened to the samples on Itunes. It's basically identical, especially with MP's response vocals.

It's a shame they overlooked that.  They basically copied themselves in the same album.  I guess that's bound to happen when you crank out albums so fast and don't sit with the tunes for a bit.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: MirrorMask on October 26, 2017, 07:56:22 AM
Well, to be fair, that kind of echoing chorus is kinda common practice. So it's more like they used twice the same trick, rather than literally not realizing to have composed the "same" chorus.
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: mikeyd23 on October 26, 2017, 07:57:49 AM
Not quite what I was expecting.  Surprised at the mellowness and the spoken lyrics.  Will take a while to get a grip on this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D_1__V-o12w

(Not quite the original title I was led to believe)

 :lol
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: mikeyd23 on October 26, 2017, 07:58:38 AM
^ I don't think the echoing vocal line is the issue as much as the melody being almost exactly the same.
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: AngelBack on October 26, 2017, 08:05:59 AM
Not quite what I was expecting.  Surprised at the mellowness and the spoken lyrics.  Will take a while to get a grip on this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D_1__V-o12w

(Not quite the original title I was led to believe)

 :lol


What the.....that crap has over a million views...
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: bill1971 on October 26, 2017, 08:37:31 AM
I still haven't listened to the album.  I feel somewhat badass.......

I probably should though.

Or you can just listen to FII, some of Black Clouds, an album by Rainbow, Deep Purple and Nickleback and be equally satisfied.

I am kidding sort of, it is worth a listen. At least once.
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: bosk1 on October 26, 2017, 09:29:29 AM
I have two polarizing thoughts toward this album as time goes on and I listen to it more. 

The more I listen, the more I am really enjoying the music.  Just because a band includes seasoned members with exceptional chops doesn't necessarily mean that they will write and execute good music together.  For a debut from guys who haven't written and played together before, this is really a superb effort.  Just a really well done effort.  It has all the quirkiness, complexity, and epicness that a prog fan could want.  It has the hooks that a rock fan would want that is sometimes lacking in prog-related projects.  Really nice blend of the two elements.  And I feel like all five members really bring solid performances to this album.  Just well done. 

The fact that the music is so good makes it all the more frustrating that Mike and Derek have conducted themselves so poorly toward the fans and others during this.  They really have a good, solid product.  But it is tainted by all the negativity and unprofessionalism that those two have pushed to the forefront in their public dealings, and that casts a shadow over the whole thing that is hard to shake off.  Really, really stupid move on their part.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Stadler on October 26, 2017, 09:30:58 AM
I don't have a problem with either picture.  They're just typical metal band pics.

That's the problem though; they're typical metal band pics.  I suppose image is everything, but whatever happened to abominations like the cover to Sabotage by Sabbath?  Now THAT'S a metal band picture!
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: The Walrus on October 26, 2017, 09:50:44 AM
If you're not trying to emulate Manowar in all your band pics, you're doing it wrong.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bosk1 on October 26, 2017, 09:56:33 AM
If you're not trying to emulate Manowar in all your band pics, you're doing it wrong.
:lol 

Personally, I don't have an issue with the pics and never have when it comes to these guys.  Generally, as long as a band isn't portraying an image that is itself morally offensive or is so over-the-top ridiculous that it can't be ignored, I don't really see the point of fixating on it.  But whatever.
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: The Silent Cody on October 26, 2017, 10:27:06 AM
I also think that this is a solid album and it's definitly a grower. With every listen I enjoyed it more and more and now I would give a solid 7 instead of 5.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Podaar on October 26, 2017, 10:47:38 AM
IMHO, this is the only way 50-60 year old guys should do band pics.

(https://media.cleveland.com/rockhall_impact/photo/rush-neil-peart-alex-lifeson-geddy-lee-andrew-macnaughtanjpg-a6eb2fbd41c48053.jpg)

 :heart
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Adami on October 26, 2017, 10:51:16 AM
Yes!

The problem is that no one in DT or SoA are tough guys. They're all just normal dudes. Family men and nerds. When normal dudes try to act tough, it looks weird.
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: bosk1 on October 26, 2017, 10:51:57 AM
I also want to give props to Soto in particular.  He brings a lot of soul and emotion to these tunes, which really brings the songs to life.  Yeah, he may not exhibit the range he did in the '80s (or even on some of his recent solo stuff).  But the songs didn't need that.  His voice fit the songs and took them to a good place.  He was definitely a great choice in the vocal department for this project.
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: Adami on October 26, 2017, 10:57:17 AM
I also want to give props to Soto in particular.  He brings a lot of soul and emotion to these tunes, which really brings the songs to life.  Yeah, he may not exhibit the range he did in the '80s (or even on some of his recent solo stuff).  But the songs didn't need that.  His voice fit the songs and took them to a good place.  He was definitely a great choice in the vocal department for this project.

I thought Soto mostly did a really good job. I would only have two complaints about his performance. That soft section in the beginning of I think Labyrinth is very very rough, and it always sounds like if he went 3-4 notes higher, his voice would break.

I have issues with the lyrics on most songs, but that's not related to his vocal performance.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Stadler on October 26, 2017, 11:01:26 AM
But.. but... you're in a BAND!   Anyone who plays an instrument knows if you punch someone in the face, you don't get to play for a week, at least.  Plus most of these guys are 5'7", 165 pounds soaking wet, and they're not going to be dropping a real hammer on anyone anytime soon.   

Petrucci excepted.  :)
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on October 26, 2017, 11:04:53 AM
I really dont understand what some of the photoshoots are really aiming for since they always put the band in some position that isn't natural.  It's not even DT, it's pretty much all of metal music.  Maybe I just don't understand the art of photography enough to get the idea behind some of these shoots.  Just put the band on a stage and take a picture, the bands always look better in their natural environment.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Adami on October 26, 2017, 11:08:49 AM
I remember doing some photoshoots back in the day. We were all trying to look tough and serious. The shoot took like 2 hours cause we couldn't stop laughing at how dumb it all was.

A pic of us laughing would have been better.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bill1971 on October 26, 2017, 11:15:14 AM
I really dont understand what some of the photoshoots are really aiming for since they always put the band in some position that isn't natural.  It's not even DT, it's pretty much all of metal music.  Maybe I just don't understand the art of photography enough to get the idea behind some of these shoots.  Just put the band on a stage and take a picture, the bands always look better in their natural environment.

I don't get the not smiling for group band pictures either. I can see if you are an MMA fighter or a football team trying to intimidate your opponent. Who is DT trying to intimidate? They release a picture of 5 guys ready to kick ass and then release The Astonishing, which I love but do not equate to kicking ass.

Same with SOA, they try to look tough and then release a song with an Egyptian sounding intro called Gods of the Son.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/743946471133839361/V7klzV41.jpg)

Then there is Randy Couture who is tougher than the entire Prog world combined and he is smiling
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: rumborak on October 26, 2017, 11:22:45 AM
I have often wished that DT would evolve their image further because as you say Adami, we all know these are mellow family dads who just like to play metal. And yes, I too was in a band in the 90s, and boy did we try to create an edgy tough photoshoot, and totally failed. We should indeed just have taken shots where we were cracking up.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Madman Shepherd on October 26, 2017, 12:00:00 PM
Oh no.  Last time DTF started talking about DT's image it turned into a bunch of grown men opining about how a bunch of a other grown men should do their hair.  Perhaps we should make a subforum for the Dream Theater Fashionistas. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: antigoon on October 26, 2017, 12:05:23 PM
i would post in that subforum
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: MirrorMask on October 26, 2017, 12:10:03 PM
I like a lot this pic of DT. This to me genuinely represented both them and their style:

(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/GufRhYvp8fo/hqdefault.jpg)
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Adami on October 26, 2017, 12:12:50 PM
That's definitely better. It still lacks their personality. They're (mostly) goofy funny dudes. I think the metal community should really embrace things like goofiness and being a normal person. No one looks at a band pic and says "damn, these guys look super serious, angry, and rigid.....I am going SO going to love this music."
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Orbert on October 26, 2017, 12:37:23 PM
I wouldn't be so sure.   I'd think a fair number of people still expect a certain image associated with certain types of music.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Adami on October 26, 2017, 12:38:34 PM
I wouldn't be so sure.   I'd think a fair number of people still expect a certain image associated with certain types of music.

We can change the system bro!
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Orbert on October 26, 2017, 12:40:00 PM
Let's do it!
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Adami on October 26, 2017, 12:41:34 PM
Let's do it!

Okay, we're going to start a death metal band and do a photo shoot of us watching TV in our boxers.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Mladen on October 26, 2017, 12:42:21 PM
IMHO, this is the only way 50-60 year old guys should do band pics.

(https://media.cleveland.com/rockhall_impact/photo/rush-neil-peart-alex-lifeson-geddy-lee-andrew-macnaughtanjpg-a6eb2fbd41c48053.jpg)

 :heart
This has got to be the best band photo I've ever seen.  :lol
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on October 26, 2017, 12:42:40 PM
That's definitely better. It still lacks their personality. They're (mostly) goofy funny dudes. I think the metal community should really embrace things like goofiness and being a normal person.

Devin Townsend is already doing that  :rollin

(https://i.pinimg.com/564x/8d/20/ec/8d20ecc7c4d428aee9a025c52fd9a9d9--lord-voldemort.jpg)
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: MirrorMask on October 26, 2017, 12:42:58 PM
Let's do it!

Okay, we're going to start a death metal band and do a photo shoot of us watching TV in our boxers.

And for the ultimate shock... the logo must be clear to read!
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: TAC on October 26, 2017, 12:46:29 PM
  The fact that the music is so good makes it all the more frustrating that Mike and Derek have conducted themselves so poorly toward the fans and others during this.  They really have a good, solid product.  But it is tainted by all the negativity and unprofessionalism that those two have pushed to the forefront in their public dealings, and that casts a shadow over the whole thing that is hard to shake off.  Really, really stupid move on their part.

So I generally like to think I'm above such trivial things, but this has really affected my receptiveness to the whole thing. I'm kind of surprised.

I've semi listened a couple times on Spotify but I just can't really get into it right now. I am not ready to buy it "just because".
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bill1971 on October 26, 2017, 12:47:15 PM
More bands should be like these guys

(https://www.scarlettentertainment.com/sites/default/files/Mariachi-Band-4.jpg)
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: bosk1 on October 26, 2017, 12:54:45 PM
  The fact that the music is so good makes it all the more frustrating that Mike and Derek have conducted themselves so poorly toward the fans and others during this.  They really have a good, solid product.  But it is tainted by all the negativity and unprofessionalism that those two have pushed to the forefront in their public dealings, and that casts a shadow over the whole thing that is hard to shake off.  Really, really stupid move on their part.

So I generally like to think I'm above such trivial things, but this has really affected my receptiveness to the whole thing. I'm kind of surprised.

I've semi listened a couple times on Spotify but I just can't really get into it right now. I am not ready to buy it "just because".

I wouldn't buy it "just because" either.  I would buy it if I listened to it and liked what I heard, which is what I do with my music purchases in general (although, like most people, if a band has enough of a track history with me that I have good reason to believe I will like it even without hearing a single note, I will buy it without hearing it first).  And that said, I totally get your response that, at least right now, the antics of Mike and/or Derek have affected your receptiveness and willingness to buy.  That's exactly what I was getting at.  I know you aren't the only one.  And it's a shame, because people are missing out on some good music, and the band is missing out on some album and ticket sales opportunities as a result, and they have no one to blame but Mike/Derek.
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: Anxiety35 on October 26, 2017, 12:59:49 PM
As I type this, most here have given the album a 5,6,or 7 rating.

It's grown some on me. I never disliked it. Maybe I had different expectations? I don't know. Maybe they will come into their own a little more over a tour in 2018 and maybe write some on tour. I don't for a moment think that this debut has all this band has to offer.

I will say this. I hear a lot of what could be Russell Allen vocals. Would he have been a better fit than Soto?
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: bill1971 on October 26, 2017, 01:00:08 PM
  The fact that the music is so good makes it all the more frustrating that Mike and Derek have conducted themselves so poorly toward the fans and others during this.  They really have a good, solid product.  But it is tainted by all the negativity and unprofessionalism that those two have pushed to the forefront in their public dealings, and that casts a shadow over the whole thing that is hard to shake off.  Really, really stupid move on their part.

So I generally like to think I'm above such trivial things, but this has really affected my receptiveness to the whole thing. I'm kind of surprised.

I've semi listened a couple times on Spotify but I just can't really get into it right now. I am not ready to buy it "just because".

I wouldn't buy it "just because" either.  I would buy it if I listened to it and liked what I heard, which is what I do with my music purchases in general (although, like most people, if a band has enough of a track history with me that I have good reason to believe I will like it even without hearing a single note, I will buy it without hearing it first).  And that said, I totally get your response that, at least right now, the antics of Mike and/or Derek have affected your receptiveness and willingness to buy.  That's exactly what I was getting at.  I know you aren't the only one.  And it's a shame, because people are missing out on some good music, and the band is missing out on some album and ticket sales opportunities as a result, and they have no one to blame but Mike/Derek.

I am on this boat too. I heard the songs online a few times. It looks like on You tube they removed them. Aside from Labyrinth I don't care if I ever hear them again. The pool has been pissed in so to speak. Yes, can I enjoy a nice swim? Yes  Will I even see or smell the piss? Probably not, but I will know it's there. So no album sale for me and no seeing them live. I know I am one person and "my loss...blah blah blah" but that is how I feel.
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: TAC on October 26, 2017, 01:08:33 PM
I wouldn't buy it "just because" either.  I would buy it if I listened to it and liked what I heard, which is what I do with my music purchases in general (although, like most people, if a band has enough of a track history with me that I have good reason to believe I will like it even without hearing a single note, I will buy it without hearing it first).  And that said, I totally get your response that, at least right now, the antics of Mike and/or Derek have affected your receptiveness and willingness to buy.  That's exactly what I was getting at.  I know you aren't the only one.  And it's a shame, because people are missing out on some good music, and the band is missing out on some album and ticket sales opportunities as a result, and they have no one to blame but Mike/Derek.

So, a couple other things...

JSS is a major draw for me here. He owns a TAC Top 5 Vocal for me. But he's not allowed to do anything on this. So that's a minus.

And I am frankly not a fan of Derek, his antics notwithstanding. I never thought he was right for DT. Ever. Doing a tour on short notice was fine, but when he became an actual member, I did not agree. I truly wish he was not part of this project.
I mean, he's (up until now) always handled his dismissal with nothing but class, and he seems to have taken his time with DT and has propelled himself into a much better keyboard player, so there's that.
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: bosk1 on October 26, 2017, 01:20:29 PM
TAC, I'm not trying to dissuade you and get you to buy the album if you aren't feeling it.  But in response to a couple of your points:

JSS is a major draw for me here. He owns a TAC Top 5 Vocal for me. But he's not allowed to do anything on this. So that's a minus.

I disagree with the bolded.  I think he did exactly what the songs called for, and I really like most of the vocal choices.  There is a lot of soul and nuance to what he does on this album, and I think his voice brings a lot of personality to the songs.

And I am frankly not a fan of Derek, his antics notwithstanding. I never thought he was right for DT. Ever. Doing a tour on short notice was fine, but when he became an actual member, I did not agree. I truly wish he was not part of this project.

Yeah, I get that.  As I said in my review, there are times where I feel like he is too up front, and if one doesn't like his style, that is definitely an issue.  But that said, there are PLENTY of moments where I think he nailed the mood perfectly and really compliments Thal's guitar playing.  As with my comments on Soto's vocals, there is a lot that is really cool in Derek's playing on this album that won't really be picked up on from just a casual listen.  Just like a DT album, there is a lot of nuance and layering that I think it is hard to pick up on without multiple listens.
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: TAC on October 26, 2017, 01:28:03 PM
I will give it the time it deserves at some point.
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: Lethean on October 26, 2017, 01:39:04 PM
My problems with this album are many. At this point, I don't think MP and DS and their behavior are contributing to my feelings on it anymore. It's always possible that there is something in there subconsciously. More likely, I think I just feel more free to express my dislike than I would have if they hadn't turned me off by their behavior.

I really disliked Adrenaline Mob, but when it came out, I still felt very loyal to MP. I didn't like some of the things he had said online, but I chalked it up to him having made a really big mistake that he regretted, and though he wasn't handling it well, I felt for him. I wanted to support him. I wasn't on his forum then, but in my online comments elsewhere, I held back about describing my dislike. And I went to see Adrenaline Mob live, because I liked Mike and wanted to support him.

Now, my feelings towards Mike are all over the place really. I'm very disappointed by what's been going on lately, but I think that just like I supported Adrenaline Mob even though I didn't like it, if I really liked this album, I would have acknowledged that I liked it even though I didn't plan on supporting it. I would lament that such great music was tainted.

But I truly do not like this. I agree with Tac about JSS. I've heard vocals by him that were really strong and that I like a lot, but here it seems so lifeless. And the songs, I really just don't think it's good stuff. I agree with that one review that talked about the lack of originality. It's one thing if a song reminds you of another band here or there, or if there are a couple moments on an album that sound really close to something else. But with this album, it's all over the place. Every song, multiple times in each song, to where barely any time goes by that something doesn't just scream at me with it's similarities to specific parts or riffs or melodies. It's all too much, and at the end of the day I just don't find much to enjoy.  It doesn't seem to have much in the way of dynamics either. I know there's heavy parts, there's a ballad, there's simple and complex but none of it makes me feel anything other than "isn't this over yet?"
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Stadler on October 26, 2017, 01:43:00 PM
I like a lot this pic of DT. This to me genuinely represented both them and their style:

(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/GufRhYvp8fo/hqdefault.jpg)

See, if I had to buy an album, unheard, and all I had to go on was that picture, or any of the other ones above, I would go with that picture.   I'm like 90% sure I went to college with the guy second from the left, and I play softball with the guy on the right. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Stadler on October 26, 2017, 01:43:40 PM
That's definitely better. It still lacks their personality. They're (mostly) goofy funny dudes. I think the metal community should really embrace things like goofiness and being a normal person.

Devin Townsend is already doing that  :rollin

(https://i.pinimg.com/564x/8d/20/ec/8d20ecc7c4d428aee9a025c52fd9a9d9--lord-voldemort.jpg)

And....   the pendulum swings too far the other way.

I was JUST getting into him, what with "Deep Peace" from London, and then this...
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: New World Rushman on October 26, 2017, 01:47:01 PM
IMHO, this is the only way 50-60 year old guys should do band pics.

(https://media.cleveland.com/rockhall_impact/photo/rush-neil-peart-alex-lifeson-geddy-lee-andrew-macnaughtanjpg-a6eb2fbd41c48053.jpg)

 :heart
This has got to be the best band photo I've ever seen.  :lol

If I recall the story correctly, the reason they're all smiling is because Alex had one of those fart machines that makes a different fart noise when you press the button.

I am not making this up.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on October 26, 2017, 01:51:41 PM
Those certainly work for getting me to smile
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Ben_Jamin on October 26, 2017, 02:16:48 PM
That's definitely better. It still lacks their personality. They're (mostly) goofy funny dudes. I think the metal community should really embrace things like goofiness and being a normal person.

Devin Townsend is already doing that  :rollin

(https://i.pinimg.com/564x/8d/20/ec/8d20ecc7c4d428aee9a025c52fd9a9d9--lord-voldemort.jpg)

And....   the pendulum swings too far the other way.

I was JUST getting into him, what with "Deep Peace" from London, and then this...


Haha then I dont think he's for you. It's a part of him and he's not afraid to show it. I'd like to see your reaction to Z2 live. With the giant poozers.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bosk1 on October 26, 2017, 02:28:43 PM
What on earth is a "giant poozer?"  ???
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Orbert on October 26, 2017, 02:40:35 PM
I was just thinking the same thing, but maybe I don't want to know...
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: The Walrus on October 26, 2017, 02:58:47 PM
Can't disagree with any of that, Lethean - great post.
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: TAC on October 26, 2017, 03:11:46 PM
But I truly do not like this. I agree with Tac about JSS. I've heard vocals by him that were really strong and that I like a lot, but here it seems so lifeless. 

He sings fantastically. Don't think that can be denied. But I just don't think these songs really call for a vocal tour de force, which he is absolutely capable of. Similar to JLB on SC and BC&SL. He sings great, for what he is asked to sing. But unfortunately is not given the space to show what he can really do.
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: cramx3 on October 26, 2017, 03:20:54 PM
I don't know JSS's previous work to speak about what he is capable of, but he definitely seems lifeless on this IMO.  There's nothing interesting in his vocals to me.  By the end of the album I am happy to get an instrumental, his voice makes lsitening to the album tiring and its easily my least favorite thing about the music and album holding it back from anything better than a 7.  I know that's harsh, especially because he isn't bad at all on the album, he just doesn't add anything for me and since his vocals are all the same throughout all the songs, it makes it feel "lifeless" to me.  I don't think the songs call for more, and maybe this is really against the writing of these songs than him himself, but I really struggle with enjoying the vocals. The "Yea!"s throughout the album are also really cheesy to my ears.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: noxon on October 26, 2017, 04:53:31 PM
This video will enlighten you about poozers. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1NGQjRMXg28
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bosk1 on October 26, 2017, 05:10:44 PM
Every fiber of my being is screaming "DON'T CLICK THAT LINK!!!"
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: KevShmev on October 26, 2017, 05:31:24 PM
Ugh, don't recommend Z2 material to non-Devin fans!  That is like his worst record (or maybe second worst).
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bosk1 on October 26, 2017, 05:41:13 PM
Oh, it's a Devin Townsend thing?  No wonder I'm not familiar.  Well, knowing that, I clicked the link, and...that is the first thing I have ever heard from Devin Townsend that I have actually liked.  Go figure. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: KevShmev on October 26, 2017, 05:43:42 PM
Figures. :lol :lol

In all fairness, while Z2 has very few keepers, March of the Poozers is one of them. :metal
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: Madman Shepherd on October 26, 2017, 05:56:33 PM
I don't know JSS's previous work to speak about what he is capable of, but he definitely seems lifeless on this IMO.  There's nothing interesting in his vocals to me.  By the end of the album I am happy to get an instrumental, his voice makes lsitening to the album tiring and its easily my least favorite thing about the music and album holding it back from anything better than a 7.  I know that's harsh, especially because he isn't bad at all on the album, he just doesn't add anything for me and since his vocals are all the same throughout all the songs, it makes it feel "lifeless" to me.  I don't think the songs call for more, and maybe this is really against the writing of these songs than him himself, but I really struggle with enjoying the vocals. The "Yea!"s throughout the album are also really cheesy to my ears.

I wouldn't go that far but I understand completely what your saying.  Just not all that impressive.  Someone said it previously in one of these threads but the album could use more breathy vocals.  Seriously.  It needs some diversity in the vocal department.  Anything really. 
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: bill1971 on October 26, 2017, 09:41:43 PM
I wonder how much DS and MP hindered him. One video he was saying him and DS got into it about the vocals. Although he is not what he was one strength of DT is the uniqueness of Labries vocals. The was JSS sings on this he could be replaced by a dozen similar singers such as Russell Allen.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Schurftkut on October 27, 2017, 12:31:29 AM
for those complaining about the songs needing more work, Sherinian is already bombarding Bumblefoot with new ideas for the next album. Hopefully they'll get a bit more attention the 2nd time around.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v0OkpXqCPH8
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: Cruithne on October 27, 2017, 02:52:04 AM
It's only because of his involvement with SoA that I now realise that I've had an album with JSS's singing on it for over 20 years, it's just it's Malmsteen's first album and I always skip the songs with vocals! I just don't connect with his voice and that's probably the biggest stumbling block for me.

Honestly though, I'm more than familiar with the rest of the band's prior songwriting efforts and as a result wasn't expecting much in the way of fireworks, I was just waiting to see if the particular combination would produce a spark of something unique. It's ended up being bang average - not at all bad, but hardly soliciting further attention.

Were this the debut of a band of young unknowns I'd be far more interested than I am.
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: Architeuthis on October 27, 2017, 03:37:52 AM
The vocals of JSS have grown on me with this album, except for when he sounds too much like Nickleback ( a band I could never get into).
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: TAC on October 27, 2017, 05:18:50 AM
I wonder how much DS and MP hindered him. One video he was saying him and DS got into it about the vocals. Although he is not what he was one strength of DT is the uniqueness of Labries vocals. The was JSS sings on this he could be replaced by a dozen similar singers such as Russell Allen.

I agree with this, especially the bolded part, but please, no Russ Allen.

Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: mikeyd23 on October 27, 2017, 07:01:23 AM
I wonder how much DS and MP hindered him. One video he was saying him and DS got into it about the vocals. Although he is not what he was one strength of DT is the uniqueness of Labries vocals. The was JSS sings on this he could be replaced by a dozen similar singers such as Russell Allen.

I agree with this, especially the bolded part, but please, no Russ Allen.

I actually think it was a very wise decision on MP's part not to involve Russ (and I really like his voice). This band has already been referred to as AMob with keys a bunch and I think that would have been even more apparent with Russell singing in this project.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: gzarruk on October 27, 2017, 07:05:05 AM
for those complaining about the songs needing more work, Sherinian is already bombarding Bumblefoot with new ideas for the next album. Hopefully they'll get a bit more attention the 2nd time around.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v0OkpXqCPH8

Already thinking on the next album?  :huh: :huh: :huh:
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: MirrorMask on October 27, 2017, 07:09:25 AM
Why not. The album is done, the tour is yet to happen, so if they all get along fine and they're pumped for it what's wrong in thinking ahead? always better to work a lot of time on an album, with ideas coming from different writing sessions, than doing it all in a week.
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: MirrorMask on October 27, 2017, 07:10:41 AM
There's nothing wrong with JSS 'cause he's a great singer, and I like his performance on the album, but what if Mike retroactively wishes he didn't "waste" a partnership with Russell Allen on Adrenaline Mob, in order to have him for Sons of Apollo?  :D
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on October 27, 2017, 07:10:48 AM
for those complaining about the songs needing more work, Sherinian is already bombarding Bumblefoot with new ideas for the next album. Hopefully they'll get a bit more attention the 2nd time around.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v0OkpXqCPH8

That's good, it seems like these guys weren't together enough yet to maximize their potential.  If this has got the blood flowing and ideas are generating then that's great they have that on their minds and already working towards it.  Sure it's early, but I think there's a lot of potential for a strong follow up album once these guys spend significant time together.
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: abydos on October 27, 2017, 07:17:45 AM
Can I get a TLDR on DS's behvariour? What happened there? I tuned out after I heard the first song - not my cup of tea.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: gzarruk on October 27, 2017, 07:21:30 AM
Why not. The album is done, the tour is yet to happen, so if they all get along fine and they're pumped for it what's wrong in thinking ahead? always better to work a lot of time on an album, with ideas coming from different writing sessions, than doing it all in a week.
[/b]

That's the problem. They just rushed to write and record their first album just to put it out fast. Now, it's just a week since it's been released and they're already working on the 2nd. A better strategy would've been to actally spend more time working on the 1st one instead of trying to get it right the 2nd time around.

And, btw, judging by the way Mike likes to schedule his bands, after the SoA tour ends, he's probably gonna go back to work/tour with FC, NMB, TA, etc etc. Who knows when the next album for this band will, if ever, be released.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on October 27, 2017, 07:28:01 AM
But maybe if they have material ready for a next album it will push it closer to being worked on over the rest of everyone elses projects?  I still think tour turnout will make the difference in terms of how quickly this band proceeds to the next album.
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: MirrorMask on October 27, 2017, 07:28:14 AM
Can I get a TLDR on DS's behvariour? What happened there? I tuned out after I heard the first song - not my cup of tea.

99% of the times he was tweeting about the band, he was using hashtag to antagonize and mock DT: #noipads, #nocheesyvocals, #nodroidbullshit etc etc, every post essentially 9 times out of 10 was a stab at DT, his entire hype campaign was based on the concept "We're not doing what those losers in DT are doing".
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Dave_Manchester on October 27, 2017, 07:30:51 AM
Any info on where (or if) this thing landed on any charts? The album doesn't have its own Wiki page (which is where I usually check such info). Adrenaline Mob's debut reached 70 on the US Billboard chart, and I'm guessing this one will be quite a bit higher, given the players involved.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: The Walrus on October 27, 2017, 07:34:24 AM
Any info on where (or if) this thing landed on any charts? The album doesn't have its own Wiki page (which is where I usually check such info). Adrenaline Mob's debut reached 70 on the US Billboard chart, and I'm guessing this one will be quite a bit higher, given the players involved.

I see Amazon (US) has Psychotic Symphony at #32 for best sellers in rock, but that's the only metric I can find, no idea about official charts or sales.

What I find more interesting is that Greta Van Fleet is at #25. They must be getting much more popular than I had thought.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on October 27, 2017, 07:35:53 AM
Any info on where (or if) this thing landed on any charts? The album doesn't have its own Wiki page (which is where I usually check such info). Adrenaline Mob's debut reached 70 on the US Billboard chart, and I'm guessing this one will be quite a bit higher, given the players involved.

I've never looked at this stuff until just now but

https://www.billboard.com/charts/billboard-200 (https://www.billboard.com/charts/billboard-200)

I don't see it listed for the last few weeks.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Nekov on October 27, 2017, 07:37:38 AM
Why not. The album is done, the tour is yet to happen, so if they all get along fine and they're pumped for it what's wrong in thinking ahead? always better to work a lot of time on an album, with ideas coming from different writing sessions, than doing it all in a week.
[/b]

That's the problem. They just rushed to write and record their first album just to put it out fast. Now, it's just a week since it's been released and they're already working on the 2nd. A better strategy would've been to actally spend more time working on the 1st one instead of trying to get it right the 2nd time around.

And, btw, judging by the way Mike likes to schedule his bands, after the SoA tour ends, he's probably gonna go back to work/tour with FC, NMB, TA, etc etc. Who knows when the next album for this band will, if ever, be released.

While I'd love for him to go back to work with TA or FC, they've been pretty clear that they want this to be a band and not just a project but as Dave points out, it'll come down to how good they do on sales and tour. And I can see them working on the second album while on tour, making use of all the time they're together. We'll see
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: kaos2900 on October 27, 2017, 07:50:23 AM
Why not. The album is done, the tour is yet to happen, so if they all get along fine and they're pumped for it what's wrong in thinking ahead? always better to work a lot of time on an album, with ideas coming from different writing sessions, than doing it all in a week.
[/b]

That's the problem. They just rushed to write and record their first album just to put it out fast. Now, it's just a week since it's been released and they're already working on the 2nd. A better strategy would've been to actally spend more time working on the 1st one instead of trying to get it right the 2nd time around.

And, btw, judging by the way Mike likes to schedule his bands, after the SoA tour ends, he's probably gonna go back to work/tour with FC, NMB, TA, etc etc. Who knows when the next album for this band will, if ever, be released.

While I'd love for him to go back to work with TA or FC, they've been pretty clear that they want this to be a band and not just a project but as Dave points out, it'll come down to how good they do on sales and tour. And I can see them working on the second album while on tour, making use of all the time they're together. We'll see

The same thing was said about The Winery Dogs.

Figures. :lol :lol

In all fairness, while Z2 has very few keepers, March of the Poozers is one of them. :metal

March of the Poozers is one of my favorite Dev songs. So silly but my god it rocks.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bosk1 on October 27, 2017, 08:19:36 AM
That's the problem. They just rushed to write and record their first album just to put it out fast.

They did?  Where did you get that information?

Any info on where (or if) this thing landed on any charts? The album doesn't have its own Wiki page (which is where I usually check such info). Adrenaline Mob's debut reached 70 on the US Billboard chart, and I'm guessing this one will be quite a bit higher, given the players involved.

Not sure.  But I would imagine that if it had done well, Mike would have wanted people to know and would have put that information out there.  I'm not so sure about it doing better than AM.  Yeah, the players are well known.  But that doesn't necessarily translate into higher sales.  I could be wrong, but I don't think it did better than AM, and here's why:  First, AM, despite the players being less mainstream, got a decent amount of hype and media attention.  I haven't really seen the same level of media attention for Sons of Apollo.  Second, look at the distribution.  Omerta was released on Century Media.  Psychotic Symphony was released on Inside Out.  Century Media definitely has wider distribution.  And this next part is purely anecdotal, but I can tell you that Psychotic Symphony is not being carried in any of the mainstream retailers out here.  There is a local CD/record chain, and each of their stores got 1 copy of the album.  That isn't indicative of a label pushing the album or believing it will have very high sales numbers. 

Ultimately, I have no idea what this sold.  But Omerta only sold around 6,600 copies as a #70 debut.  To take another recent MP project, the Winery Dogs debut album sold 10,200 in its first week as a #27 album (I think it debuted a bit lower and climbed to that in its second or third week, if memory serves).  I can't imagine that Psychotic Symphony will do as well as TWD. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Stadler on October 27, 2017, 08:40:29 AM
This video will enlighten you about poozers. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1NGQjRMXg28

So... a poozer is either a singing scrotum with eyes, or a diaphragm with big square legs.   Makes perfect sense.

(I liked the tune, though.)
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: Stadler on October 27, 2017, 08:42:32 AM
I wonder how much DS and MP hindered him. One video he was saying him and DS got into it about the vocals. Although he is not what he was one strength of DT is the uniqueness of Labries vocals. The was JSS sings on this he could be replaced by a dozen similar singers such as Russell Allen.

I agree with this, especially the bolded part, but please, no Russ Allen.

I second this.   Just say no.

Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: Stadler on October 27, 2017, 08:44:03 AM
Can I get a TLDR on DS's behvariour? What happened there? I tuned out after I heard the first song - not my cup of tea.

99% of the times he was tweeting about the band, he was using hashtag to antagonize and mock DT: #noipads, #nocheesyvocals, #nodroidbullshit etc etc, every post essentially 9 times out of 10 was a stab at DT, his entire hype campaign was based on the concept "We're not doing what those losers in DT are doing".

Or, if you're of a different opinion, just having some fun and poking fun at his old band and the inevitable comparisons between the two. 

He never once called them "losers" or anything like that, and he at one point acknowledged that it was all a joke and poking fun.   
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: bosk1 on October 27, 2017, 08:45:14 AM
I've never heard anyone in any genre of music that simultaneously had as much diversity and power in their vocals as Russell Allen.  But having said that, I'm still glad they got Soto on this project.  I think he's a great fit.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on October 27, 2017, 08:49:29 AM
This video will enlighten you about poozers. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1NGQjRMXg28

So... a poozer is either a singing scrotum with eyes, or a diaphragm with big square legs.   Makes perfect sense.

(I liked the tune, though.)

Sharing the wrong video, the live clip is much better https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wyPfrbJKMpg (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wyPfrbJKMpg) since it has two poozers on stage.  Aren't they like fart bubbles or something?
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: Stadler on October 27, 2017, 08:49:59 AM
I've never heard anyone in any genre of music that simultaneously had as much diversity and power in their vocals as Russell Allen.  But having said that, I'm still glad they got Soto on this project.  I think he's a great fit.

I must not have listened to the same stuff, or the right stuff.  I've gotten some Symphony X stuff in roulettes and what not, and I was just never that impressed.   It just sounds so... generic to me.   I'd take James over him any day of the week and twice on Sunday.  I think JSS is a shade generic too (and I've been critical of his singing on this album for being too one note) but I'd prefer him too. 
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: TAC on October 27, 2017, 08:52:24 AM
I've never heard anyone in any genre of music that simultaneously had as much diversity and power in their vocals as Russell Allen.  But having said that, I'm still glad they got Soto on this project.  I think he's a great fit.

I think Allen is a fantastic vocalist. But I have NEVER connected with him. It's one of the main reasons that Sym X is still at arms length.
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: bosk1 on October 27, 2017, 08:57:41 AM
I don't know very much about him other than his work with Symphony X, so I may be reading too much into some snippets I've seen from interviews, but it seems like he is kind of disillusioned with Symphony X.  There was an interview not too long ago where he was saying he really wants to put all of his energy into Adrenaline Mob because it is more "pure" and he just gets to be himself, whereas in Symphony X, he was always more or less playing a character in his singing.  I mention that because I think his vocals really suited Symphony X for that reason.  He was able to pull of that big, epic, dramatic vocal and sell it (for those who don't get hung up on epic cheese :symphonyx: ).  But I'm not sure that would have been the right approach for Sons of Apollo.  Yeah, they do tend to a similar direction.  But they don't push it as far as Symphony X.  I think having Russ on vocals would have either consciously or subconsciously pushed them too far in that direction.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bosk1 on October 27, 2017, 09:04:10 AM
That is disturbing, mesmerizing, and rocking, all at the same time.  :lol
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: bill1971 on October 27, 2017, 09:06:01 AM
Can I get a TLDR on DS's behvariour? What happened there? I tuned out after I heard the first song - not my cup of tea.

99% of the times he was tweeting about the band, he was using hashtag to antagonize and mock DT: #noipads, #nocheesyvocals, #nodroidbullshit etc etc, every post essentially 9 times out of 10 was a stab at DT, his entire hype campaign was based on the concept "We're not doing what those losers in DT are doing".

Or, if you're of a different opinion, just having some fun and poking fun at his old band and the inevitable comparisons between the two. 

He never once called them "losers" or anything like that, and he at one point acknowledged that it was all a joke and poking fun.   

Where did he do that? 
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: mikeyd23 on October 27, 2017, 09:08:59 AM
Can I get a TLDR on DS's behvariour? What happened there? I tuned out after I heard the first song - not my cup of tea.

99% of the times he was tweeting about the band, he was using hashtag to antagonize and mock DT: #noipads, #nocheesyvocals, #nodroidbullshit etc etc, every post essentially 9 times out of 10 was a stab at DT, his entire hype campaign was based on the concept "We're not doing what those losers in DT are doing".

Or, if you're of a different opinion, just having some fun and poking fun at his old band and the inevitable comparisons between the two. 

He never once called them "losers" or anything like that, and he at one point acknowledged that it was all a joke and poking fun.   

Where did he do that?

Not sure, but I'm also not sure it matters.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Ben_Jamin on October 27, 2017, 09:09:56 AM
This video will enlighten you about poozers. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1NGQjRMXg28

So... a poozer is either a singing scrotum with eyes, or a diaphragm with big square legs.   Makes perfect sense.

(I liked the tune, though.)

Sharing the wrong video, the live clip is much better https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wyPfrbJKMpg (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wyPfrbJKMpg) since it has two poozers on stage.  Aren't they like fart bubbles or something?

I thought they were humans turned into Asses by the War Princess with her Deathray.
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: bosk1 on October 27, 2017, 09:10:45 AM
Can I get a TLDR on DS's behvariour? What happened there? I tuned out after I heard the first song - not my cup of tea.

99% of the times he was tweeting about the band, he was using hashtag to antagonize and mock DT: #noipads, #nocheesyvocals, #nodroidbullshit etc etc, every post essentially 9 times out of 10 was a stab at DT, his entire hype campaign was based on the concept "We're not doing what those losers in DT are doing".

Or, if you're of a different opinion, just having some fun and poking fun at his old band and the inevitable comparisons between the two. 

He never once called them "losers" or anything like that, and he at one point acknowledged that it was all a joke and poking fun.   

Where did he do that?

Not sure, but I'm also not sure it matters.

Yeah.
1.  He didn't (as far as I've seen, anyway).  But:
2.  As you said, it doesn't really matter.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on October 27, 2017, 09:12:09 AM
That may be right, I don't know the Z2 story well, I just could of sworn DT called them fart bubbles in that concert.
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: Stadler on October 27, 2017, 09:14:22 AM
A 1/10 rating for me would mean that not only the record leaves me cold but that it actually causes me pain when listening to it, not even St. Anger is that bad.

Even though I've only heard four of the songs so far, I can't see it being a 1/10.

1/10 is saved for the truly awful, like Queensryche albums from the 00s and Kiss records.

Hey, hey!  Easy there!
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: Stadler on October 27, 2017, 09:23:22 AM
Can I get a TLDR on DS's behvariour? What happened there? I tuned out after I heard the first song - not my cup of tea.

99% of the times he was tweeting about the band, he was using hashtag to antagonize and mock DT: #noipads, #nocheesyvocals, #nodroidbullshit etc etc, every post essentially 9 times out of 10 was a stab at DT, his entire hype campaign was based on the concept "We're not doing what those losers in DT are doing".

Or, if you're of a different opinion, just having some fun and poking fun at his old band and the inevitable comparisons between the two. 

He never once called them "losers" or anything like that, and he at one point acknowledged that it was all a joke and poking fun.   

Where did he do that?

Not sure, but I'm also not sure it matters.

Yeah.
1.  He didn't (as far as I've seen, anyway).  But:
2.  As you said, it doesn't really matter.

There was a tweet, I'm guessing about two weeks ago, and it might have been technically from Mike, but it referred to the joking about their former band. 

All water under the bridge when referring to the music, though, I agree.   
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Metro on October 27, 2017, 09:27:16 AM
The Poozers are ballsack shaped aliens from the planet Titan who invade Earth to steal coffee and turn the humans into more Poozers during the attack. IIRC the name actually came from Dev's son.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: gzarruk on October 27, 2017, 09:38:06 AM
That's the problem. They just rushed to write and record their first album just to put it out fast.

They did?  Where did you get that information?

They said they went into the studio for 1 week and wrote everything execpting GOTS in that time. Tha’t way too quick to let the ideas develop naturally imo. But, I guess if it works for them, its fine...
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bill1971 on October 27, 2017, 09:42:36 AM
I am going to post this on both threads because I forget which one is which, but Jordan "responded" to Derek's comments. This is from Jordan's Facebook page

Christian Francisco what is your take on derrek's youtube statement?
7 hrs

View 1 more reply
Jordan Rudess
Jordan Rudess  :)
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: bill1971 on October 27, 2017, 09:43:14 AM
I am going to post this on both threads because I forget which one is which, but Jordan "responded" to Derek's comments. This is from Jordan's Facebook page

Christian Francisco what is your take on derrek's youtube statement?
7 hrs

View 1 more reply
Jordan Rudess
Jordan Rudess  :)
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: Stadler on October 27, 2017, 09:43:26 AM
I'm not sure what number I would give.  I've listened to it a couple times now, and I like it, but there's something about it.

I don't at all agree with the "stitched together" comments.  I think the songwriting is pretty good, I think the playing is strong. I am a Blackmore maniac, so I love the Deep Purple-ish nature of a lot of the material.

I have a couple recurring problems though:
- the sound; no, not brickwalling, but the same-iness of it all.  It's all midrange.   The guitars are all that 2005-ish Alter Bridge sound (the start of Signs of the Times, the start of Opus Maximus, for two examples) and it blurs with the bass, so that I can only honestly remember one noticeable bass line (in Opus Maximus), which, with Billy Sheehan, is a travesty.  The keys have that rumbly Hammond-y sound for much of it, so it is competing with the guitars and bass, and then you have JSS singing in that mid-rangy gravelly tenor and it's all a big mush.
- JSS.  Look, the dude can sing, no question.   I get it, he's a talent, unadulterated.  But this album needed some contrast, and he was just the guy to give it, and he didn't.    Coming Home is what, 4:22, and there are THREE generic metal screams in that song.   You've got one of the better singers in rock, you've got two guys (at least) that can do backing v's, I would've liked to have heard some more variety in the vocals.   More melody, more contrast from the "rock" of the music.   This was always the magic of Purple (with Gillan) and Rainbow (with all four singers, even Doogie).   That intro, to I think it was Labyrinth, made me cringe. 

I'm parked somewhere around 7.5 at this point.  I'd like to give it at least one more listen, though. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Lethean on October 27, 2017, 09:53:19 AM
The smile could be on response to the first comment:

They have nothing to gain in responding to his immature social media taunts.
Better to just let him make a fool of himself.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: AngelBack on October 27, 2017, 09:56:44 AM
The smile could be on response to the first comment:

They have nothing to gain in responding to his immature social media taunts.
Better to just let him make a fool of himself.

Correct, it was.  Swedishgoose from DTF posted the defense and JR liked it.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bosk1 on October 27, 2017, 10:02:14 AM
That's the problem. They just rushed to write and record their first album just to put it out fast.

They did?  Where did you get that information?

They said they went into the studio for 1 week and wrote everything execpting GOTS in that time. Tha’t way too quick to let the ideas develop naturally imo. But, I guess if it works for them, its fine...


Yes, but the fact that they were only in the studio for a week does not necessarily translate to "They just rushed to write and record their first album just to put it out fast."
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: SwedishGoose on October 27, 2017, 10:08:59 AM
I am going to post this on both threads because I forget which one is which, but Jordan "responded" to Derek's comments. This is from Jordan's Facebook page

Christian Francisco what is your take on derrek's youtube statement?
7 hrs

View 1 more reply
Jordan Rudess
Jordan Rudess  :)

I believe his smilie was in reply to my answer to the comment:

They have nothing to gain in responding to his immature social media taunts.
Better to just let him make a fool of himself.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bill1971 on October 27, 2017, 10:09:41 AM
The smile could be on response to the first comment:

They have nothing to gain in responding to his immature social media taunts.
Better to just let him make a fool of himself.

Correct, it was.  Swedishgoose from DTF posted the defense and JR liked it.

Where and what was the defense? On Facebook or Youtube?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: SwedishGoose on October 27, 2017, 10:10:54 AM
On facebook

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=10155204726027989&id=8717682988
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: Mebert78 on October 27, 2017, 10:42:59 AM
Can I get a TLDR on DS's behvariour? What happened there? I tuned out after I heard the first song - not my cup of tea.

99% of the times he was tweeting about the band, he was using hashtag to antagonize and mock DT: #noipads, #nocheesyvocals, #nodroidbullshit etc etc, every post essentially 9 times out of 10 was a stab at DT, his entire hype campaign was based on the concept "We're not doing what those losers in DT are doing".

Or, if you're of a different opinion, just having some fun and poking fun at his old band and the inevitable comparisons between the two. 

He never once called them "losers" or anything like that, and he at one point acknowledged that it was all a joke and poking fun.   

Where did he do that?

Not sure, but I'm also not sure it matters.

I didn't mention this earlier in the week, because there was enough discussion about Sherinian's antics, but the latest issue of Prog magazine has a three-page article about Sons of Apollo with quotes from Portnoy and Sherinian.  I apologize if someone else mentioned it, as it's been a busy week for me.  Anyway, toward the end of the piece, Sherinian starts talking about how he's read a lot of online reaction about DT's The Astonishing and how it's very "Walt Disney."  He then proceeded to invite DT fans who are not happy with the band's direction in recent years to find what they've been missing in Sons of Apollo.  He also said he hopes the arrival of SoA will help inspire DT to make better music going forward.  Those weren't his exact words, I'm paraphrasing because I don't have the story in front of me right now, but you get the idea.
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: mikeyd23 on October 27, 2017, 10:48:59 AM
I didn't mention this earlier in the week, because there was enough discussion about Sherinian's antics, but the latest issue of Prog magazine has a three-page article about Sons of Apollo with quotes from Portnoy and Sherinian.  I apologize if someone else mentioned it, as it's been a busy week for me.  Anyway, toward the end of the piece, Sherinian starts talking about how he's read a lot of online reaction about DT's The Astonishing and how it was very "Walt Disney."  He then proceeded to invite DT fans who are not happy with the band's direction in recent years to find what they've been missing in Sons of Apollo.  He also said he hopes that the arrival of SoA will help inspire DT to make better music going forward.  Those weren't his exact words, I'm paraphrasing because I don't have the story in front of me right now, but you get the idea.

Eh, there are so many things.... I guess I still just don't get it, but whatever. Seems counterproductive for SoA to have MP and DS approaching things like that. All they would have to say is that they understand Mike and Derek have many fans who are DT fans and they hope those folks will check out their new record because they are really proud of it. No need to go out of their way to call things "Disney" or talk about fans that don't like DT's direction or anything.
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: majo on October 27, 2017, 10:52:37 AM
I didn't mention this earlier in the week, because there was enough discussion about Sherinian's antics, but the latest issue of Prog magazine has a three-page article about Sons of Apollo with quotes from Portnoy and Sherinian.  I apologize if someone else mentioned it, as it's been a busy week for me.  Anyway, toward the end of the piece, Sherinian starts talking about how he's read a lot of online reaction about DT's The Astonishing and how it was very "Walt Disney."  He then proceeded to invite DT fans who are not happy with the band's direction in recent years to find what they've been missing in Sons of Apollo.  He also said he hopes that the arrival of SoA will help inspire DT to make better music going forward.  Those weren't his exact words, I'm paraphrasing because I don't have the story in front of me right now, but you get the idea.

Eh, there are so many things.... I guess I still just don't get it, but whatever. Seems counterproductive for SoA to have MP and DS approaching things like that. All they would have to say is that they understand Mike and Derek have many fans who are DT fans and they hope those folks will check out their new record because they are really proud of it. No need to go out of their way to call things "Disney" or talk about fans that don't like DT's direction or anything.
He's not being funny, he's not being playful... he's just a douchebag. That's all.
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: The Walrus on October 27, 2017, 10:55:09 AM
And that right there is the pendulum swinging low over this band and the album. They're actively pursuing a 'ballz n chunk' direction in order to snatch up DT fans who don't have an open mind and want to bash things that aren't heavy or prog or whatever their expectations are. It's the drunk loser at the bar desperately trying to go home with one of the remaining women at last call.
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: Podaar on October 27, 2017, 10:58:14 AM
In the interest of peaceful discussion. Could we please tone down the inflammatory rhetoric and drop the personal attacks?
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: Mebert78 on October 27, 2017, 11:00:52 AM
Seems counterproductive for SoA to have MP and DS approaching things like that.

To be fair, it was all Derek and Mike didn't say anything negative in this piece, that I recall.  But personally, I also attribute blame to Mike because he has gone out of his way to declare himself SoA's leader who "calls the shots" and is "in control."  If that's the case, then as leader he deserves blame for allowing Sherinian to engage in these anti-DT antics.   
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Schurftkut on October 27, 2017, 11:02:23 AM
over here Sons of Apollo entered the rockcharts at 52, while Vuur entered at nr 2.
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: mikeyd23 on October 27, 2017, 11:03:02 AM
Seems counterproductive for SoA to have MP and DS approaching things like that.

To be fair, it was all Derek and Mike didn't say anything negative in this piece, that I recall.  But I also blame Mike because he has gone out of his way to declare himself SoA's leader who "calls the shots" and is "in control."  If that's the case, then as leader he deserves blame for allowing Sherinian to engage in these anti-DT antics.   

Right, you circled yourself back around to the point I would have made. If MP is the band leader that he has claimed to be, and he had an issue with any of this, one would assume he'd step in and correct Derek's course.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: gzarruk on October 27, 2017, 11:26:10 AM
That's the problem. They just rushed to write and record their first album just to put it out fast.

They did?  Where did you get that information?

They said they went into the studio for 1 week and wrote everything execpting GOTS in that time. Tha’t way too quick to let the ideas develop naturally imo. But, I guess if it works for them, its fine...


Yes, but the fact that they were only in the studio for a week does not necessarily translate to "They just rushed to write and record their first album just to put it out fast."

Sorry for that  :biggrin:
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Ben_Jamin on October 27, 2017, 11:39:46 AM
The middle of God of The Sun reminds me of No More Tears with vocals.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: TAC on October 27, 2017, 11:42:01 AM
On facebook

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=10155204726027989&id=8717682988

The link is jut two pictures of JR,MM, and JLB.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: SwedishGoose on October 27, 2017, 11:42:42 AM
On facebook

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=10155204726027989&id=8717682988

The link is jut two pictures of JR,MM, and JLB.

Look at the comments
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: TAC on October 27, 2017, 11:44:19 AM
It just says "Great night with the boys in LA." It doesn't scroll down.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Podaar on October 27, 2017, 11:50:32 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/7Rr03W9.jpg)

You probably need to upgrade from Netscape to Chrome.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: TAC on October 27, 2017, 11:53:06 AM
That's weird. I couldn't see all of that.

What does that mean? He didn't say anything.
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: Ben_Jamin on October 27, 2017, 11:55:04 AM
My verdict is still the same.

My favorites are Gods of The Sun and Labyrinth. I just dont like Derek's lead tone.

Overall an alright album. I wouldn't mind seeing them live.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: rumborak on October 27, 2017, 12:00:01 PM
It means JR knows that engaging in this shit show is unwise.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: mikeyd23 on October 27, 2017, 12:00:49 PM
 :lol Walking TAC through this seems tough.

Pretty much this -

It means JR knows that engaging in this shit show is unwise.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: pcs90 on October 27, 2017, 12:01:02 PM
You need to be logged into facebook to see the comments I believe...just in case that's the issue here.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bill1971 on October 27, 2017, 12:01:07 PM
That's weird. I couldn't see all of that.

What does that mean? He didn't say anything.

He just smiles. Which is classy when asked directly about what Derek said.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: gzarruk on October 27, 2017, 12:01:33 PM
It means Jordan is aware and his response is pure class.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: TAC on October 27, 2017, 12:06:23 PM
:lol Walking TAC through this seems tough.

Pretty much this -

It means JR knows that engaging in this shit show is unwise.

Totally. :lol

OK. I wasn't sure if I actually missed something.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on October 27, 2017, 12:07:29 PM
It means Jordan is aware and his response is pure class.

I do wonder if the DT guys just joke and laugh about this in private.  They are clearly taking the higher road, but when they are together I could imagine them reading the tweets and just laughing.  I know my friends and I do similar when someone we went to high school posts some stupid grade school shit on social media  :lol
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: mikeyd23 on October 27, 2017, 12:12:10 PM
Totally. :lol

OK. I wasn't sure if I actually missed something.

 :lol

Nothing major just confirmation Jordan knows about the stuff DS has been saying and that he's choosing not to comment basically. Smart move.

It means Jordan is aware and his response is pure class.

I do wonder if the DT guys just joke and laugh about this in private.  They are clearly taking the higher road, but when they are together I could imagine them reading the tweets and just laughing.  I know my friends and I do similar when someone we went to high school posts some stupid grade school shit on social media  :lol

I'm not sure if they are doing that, but I'm guessing it's been discussed to some degree. They are all back together on tour now, so they are spending 24/7 with each other again. I'd guess the topic has come up.
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: Stadler on October 27, 2017, 12:12:52 PM
And that right there is the pendulum swinging low over this band and the album. They're actively pursuing a 'ballz n chunk' direction in order to snatch up DT fans who don't have an open mind and want to bash things that aren't heavy or prog or whatever their expectations are. It's the drunk loser at the bar desperately trying to go home with one of the remaining women at last call.

Yeah so? She was cute.  Kind of.   Maybe.    Oh... we're talking about something else, sorry. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Stadler on October 27, 2017, 12:15:31 PM
It means Jordan is aware and his response is pure class.

I do wonder if the DT guys just joke and laugh about this in private.  They are clearly taking the higher road, but when they are together I could imagine them reading the tweets and just laughing.  I know my friends and I do similar when someone we went to high school posts some stupid grade school shit on social media  :lol

I think that's possible.  I'm not even ruling out interaction between the two camps, even.  We know - from the three part interview with Mike posted here a couple weeks ago - that he is in conversation with John fairly regularly, and Rena and their daughter were at the NY Shattered Fortress show. 

I just feel like if it really WAS douchebaggery - or was taken that way by DT - that we would know that for certain at this point. 
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: The Walrus on October 27, 2017, 12:18:55 PM
And that right there is the pendulum swinging low over this band and the album. They're actively pursuing a 'ballz n chunk' direction in order to snatch up DT fans who don't have an open mind and want to bash things that aren't heavy or prog or whatever their expectations are. It's the drunk loser at the bar desperately trying to go home with one of the remaining women at last call.

Yeah so? She was cute.  Kind of.   Maybe.    Oh... we're talking about something else, sorry.

 :lol
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: mikeyd23 on October 27, 2017, 12:20:20 PM

I think that's possible.  I'm not even ruling out interaction between the two camps, even.  We know - from the three part interview with Mike posted here a couple weeks ago - that he is in conversation with John fairly regularly, and Rena and their daughter were at the NY Shattered Fortress show. 

Did he say that? I missed that part? I remember JP's wife and daughter being at the SF show but I didn't remember him commenting directly about JP.

I just feel like if it really WAS douchebaggery - or was taken that way by DT - that we would know that for certain at this point.

Why?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: MirrorMask on October 27, 2017, 12:29:36 PM
I just feel like if it really WAS douchebaggery - or was taken that way by DT - that we would know that for certain at this point.

Well, if it was really douchebaggery, that would be the prime reason to not reply to it.
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: bosk1 on October 27, 2017, 12:36:43 PM
Seems counterproductive for SoA to have MP and DS approaching things like that.

To be fair, it was all Derek and Mike didn't say anything negative in this piece, that I recall.  But personally, I also attribute blame to Mike because he has gone out of his way to declare himself SoA's leader who "calls the shots" and is "in control."  If that's the case, then as leader he deserves blame for allowing Sherinian to engage in these anti-DT antics.   

Well, sure.  But a few people in the last few days have been basically saying, "Wait, I can understand being upset at Derek's comments, but that's Derek, not Mike."  But Mike was the one initially taking shots at DT and DT fans, and this forum in particular.  It's just that he got mostly quiet once Derek started in.  If people have an issue with Mike's comments, I don't think it is because of what Derek has been saying--it is because of things Mike has said.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bosk1 on October 27, 2017, 12:42:15 PM

I think that's possible.  I'm not even ruling out interaction between the two camps, even.  We know - from the three part interview with Mike posted here a couple weeks ago - that he is in conversation with John fairly regularly, and Rena and their daughter were at the NY Shattered Fortress show. 

Did he say that? I missed that part? I remember JP's wife and daughter being at the SF show but I didn't remember him commenting directly about JP.

I just feel like if it really WAS douchebaggery - or was taken that way by DT - that we would know that for certain at this point.

Why?

No, he didn't say that.  And, no, I am pretty sure they are NOT "in communication regularly."
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: Ben_Jamin on October 27, 2017, 12:48:02 PM
Plus Mike shut down his forum.
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: bosk1 on October 27, 2017, 12:51:42 PM
Well, that--AND I have it on good authority that he fraternizes with poozers.
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: Adami on October 27, 2017, 12:52:53 PM
Well, that--AND I have it on good authority that he fraternizes with poozers.

Does he march with them?

Actually, I feel like Poozers represent the perfect combination of MP's two favorite things.
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: Grappler on October 27, 2017, 12:55:50 PM
8 for me.  I think it's an awesome record, it sounds great, and JSS is fantastic.  I've had his vocals for God of the Sun stuck in my head for a week now.
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: cramx3 on October 27, 2017, 12:58:30 PM
Well, that--AND I have it on good authority that he fraternizes with poozers.

 :lol
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: bosk1 on October 27, 2017, 01:08:57 PM
8 for me.  I think it's an awesome record, it sounds great, and JSS is fantastic.  I've had his vocals for God of the Sun stuck in my head for a week now.

Me too.  On all of that.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: efx on October 27, 2017, 01:14:10 PM
In the latest issue of Sweden Rock Magazine there is a Portnoy interview where he states (and I'll do my best in getting the translation right here): "I have cleared the air with Jordan and John. We are friends nowadays and stay in touch so things are good".

Not going to speculate beyond that but I thought it was an interesting statement considering it involved JP.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: gzarruk on October 27, 2017, 01:17:23 PM
It means Jordan is aware and his response is pure class.

I do wonder if the DT guys just joke and laugh about this in private.  They are clearly taking the higher road, but when they are together I could imagine them reading the tweets and just laughing.  I know my friends and I do similar when someone we went to high school posts some stupid grade school shit on social media  :lol

"And then he said, there's no cheese on our record!"

(https://www.metalsucks.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/dreamtheaterblooperstill.jpg)
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bosk1 on October 27, 2017, 01:18:24 PM
:rollin
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ? on October 27, 2017, 01:22:59 PM
Second, look at the distribution.  Omerta was released on Century Media.  Psychotic Symphony was released on Inside Out.  Century Media definitely has wider distribution.
IO is actually a subsidiary of CM and both are part of Sony nowadays, so the distribution is (or at least should be) the same.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on October 27, 2017, 01:24:12 PM
It means Jordan is aware and his response is pure class.

I do wonder if the DT guys just joke and laugh about this in private.  They are clearly taking the higher road, but when they are together I could imagine them reading the tweets and just laughing.  I know my friends and I do similar when someone we went to high school posts some stupid grade school shit on social media  :lol

"And then he said, there's no cheese on our record!"

(https://www.metalsucks.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/dreamtheaterblooperstill.jpg)

 :rollin :rollin :rollin that video is probably my favorite of any with the members of DT
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bosk1 on October 27, 2017, 01:30:22 PM
Second, look at the distribution.  Omerta was released on Century Media.  Psychotic Symphony was released on Inside Out.  Century Media definitely has wider distribution.
IO is actually a subsidiary of CM and both are part of Sony nowadays, so the distribution is (or at least should be) the same.
Oh, wow.  I didn't realize that about Inside Out.  Thanks for pointing it out.

But still, if I'm not mistaken, a subsidiary isn't necessarily going to have the same distribution agreements in place as the parent company.  I think it's telling that you won't find many (if any) Inside Out releases at any of the big national retailers.  But, hey, I could be wrong.  :dunno:
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: Enigmachine on October 27, 2017, 02:59:19 PM
Not sure what rating to give it, but I think that it's pretty great. I think I adjusted my expectations to something that wasn't going to be anywhere near as prog as Dream Theater, but have enough to still be considered prog metal. I actually quite like the hard rock vibe of it and think that the band have sort of made their own niche by fusing an 80s melodic rock sound with heavy progressive metal and I think that the fusion is done quite well. I think Jeff Scott Soto is incredible on this album, coming from someone who thought that he was a bit meh in Yngwie's band. He's got a lot of power and a good melodic sense, despite maybe being a bit one-dimensional at times. I hope this isn't a one-off project, because this still has the vibe of testing the waters. I don't think the album was particularly ambitious or daring, but that's okay for a debut.
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: noxon on October 27, 2017, 04:36:18 PM
No need to go out of their way to call things "Disney"

Actual quotes from JP interviews during the promo phase: "Hey, it could be the next Disney movie musical "
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: Ben_Jamin on October 27, 2017, 04:49:24 PM
No need to go out of their way to call things "Disney"

Actual quotes from JP interviews during the promo phase: "Hey, it could be the next Disney movie musical "

Well, David Campbell did do some Disney films.
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: bill1971 on October 27, 2017, 04:53:44 PM
No need to go out of their way to call things "Disney"

Actual quotes from JP interviews during the promo phase: "Hey, it could be the next Disney movie musical "

Disney now owns Marvel and Star Wars, so why DT? Besides it's not like Disney puts out bad music in their movies.
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: noxon on October 27, 2017, 06:25:36 PM
All I'm saying is you can't fault fans and Derek for bringing up the Disney comparison when it actually was used by JP himself in the VERY FIRST interview about The Astonishing. JP kinda sowed that seed.
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: The Walrus on October 27, 2017, 06:37:08 PM
Yeah, but everyone else took the Disney thing and used the comparison in a derogatory way - as if being Disney is inherently a bad thing. Disney's music kicks ass.
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: NoseofNicko on October 27, 2017, 06:43:18 PM
6. Not bad, some good moments, but most of the riffs and melodies sound like stuff I’ve heard before.
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: ganpondorodf on October 27, 2017, 07:34:12 PM
Yeah, but everyone else took the Disney thing and used the comparison in a derogatory way - as if being Disney is inherently a bad thing. Disney's music kicks ass.

Gaston is one of the best songs ever written and I will fight anyone who says otherwise
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: Peace and Love on October 27, 2017, 08:45:14 PM
Can I get a TLDR on DS's behvariour? What happened there? I tuned out after I heard the first song - not my cup of tea.

99% of the times he was tweeting about the band, he was using hashtag to antagonize and mock DT: #noipads, #nocheesyvocals, #nodroidbullshit etc etc, every post essentially 9 times out of 10 was a stab at DT, his entire hype campaign was based on the concept "We're not doing what those losers in DT are doing".

Or, if you're of a different opinion, just having some fun and poking fun at his old band and the inevitable comparisons between the two. 

He never once called them "losers" or anything like that, and he at one point acknowledged that it was all a joke and poking fun.   

Where did he do that?

Not sure, but I'm also not sure it matters.

Yeah.
1.  He didn't (as far as I've seen, anyway).  But:
2.  As you said, it doesn't really matter.

There was a tweet, I'm guessing about two weeks ago, and it might have been technically from Mike, but it referred to the joking about their former band. 

All water under the bridge when referring to the music, though, I agree.

What a fantastic argument you made there, very solid!

1. "Derek acknowledged that it was all a joke"
2. Don't post proof
3. Actually Derek didn't post the tweet, it was Mike.
4. It doesn't matter anyway.

If it doesn't matter, and you're not going to post proof, and you agree that your original claim was false anyway, and someone else posted this tweet... then why bother contradicting the original person at all?
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: KevShmev on October 27, 2017, 08:47:42 PM
Don't mind Stadler.  He's a good guy, but he is, by his own admission, part of "Team Mike" and will usually spin just about anything so that it reflects positively on Portnoy. It's almost a running joke at this point, and he never lets us down.  :tup :tup
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: The Walrus on October 27, 2017, 08:55:55 PM
Mike doesn't refer to them as jokes, either. He knows exactly what people are talking about, and he either calls it "Del Fuvian bravado" or "Sherinianisms." It's not hard to be honest about that, Stadler :)
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: Dave_Manchester on October 27, 2017, 09:11:32 PM
Mike doesn't refer to them as jokes, either. He knows exactly what people are talking about, and he either calls it "Del Fuvian bravado" or "Sherinianisms."

And, most recently, 'Shitstirinian'. Because stirring shit on the internet is hilarious...

...until it gets sent back to you, in which case you close down your forum, delete comments from Facebook, trash a 'rival' (in his mind) forum, and bemoan the hurtful "poisonous negativity" on the internet and plaintively ask why we all can't just get along and be civil to each other.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Madman Shepherd on October 27, 2017, 10:40:38 PM
This is interesting.  Looks like Mike went easier on Derek for leaking the early Metropolis Pt. 2 demo than he did on his own forum members for guessing Bumblefoot was the secret guitarist in Sons of Apollo. 

(https://www.copertinedvd.org/copertine-cd-file/D/dream_theater_-_metropolis_pt._2_-_scenes_from_a_memory_(demo_96)_-_front.jpg)
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: SwedishGoose on October 27, 2017, 10:56:41 PM
Mike doesn't refer to them as jokes, either. He knows exactly what people are talking about, and he either calls it "Del Fuvian bravado" or "Sherinianisms."

And, most recently, 'Shitstirinian'. Because stirring shit on the internet is hilarious...

...until it gets sent back to you, in which case you close down your forum, delete comments from Facebook, trash a 'rival' (in his mind) forum, and bemoan the hurtful "poisonous negativity" on the internet and plaintively ask why we all can't just get along and be civil to each other.

Nice summation Dave...
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Ben_Jamin on October 27, 2017, 10:57:35 PM
Then he released the FII demoes.
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: Schurftkut on October 27, 2017, 11:01:11 PM
spot on  :rollin
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: IDontNotDoThings on October 27, 2017, 11:08:11 PM
This is interesting.  Looks like Mike went easier on Derek for leaking the early Metropolis Pt. 2 demo than he did on his own forum members for guessing Bumblefoot was the secret guitarist in Sons of Apollo. 

(https://www.copertinedvd.org/copertine-cd-file/D/dream_theater_-_metropolis_pt._2_-_scenes_from_a_memory_(demo_96)_-_front.jpg)

This is pretty damn cool. It's more in the vain of part 1, but still with pieces from the 20-minute demo. It's honestly surprising how good the quality is considering its state. The FII demos always stunned me with their quality compared to how demos usually are.  :tup

Edit: Listening to the end section, does that riff remind anyone else of The Divine Wings Of Tragedy by SX or is it just me?
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: nobloodyname on October 28, 2017, 12:58:56 AM
I thought the posts apologising for derailing the thread were probably too good to be true... BOHICA, as Wey used to say :lol

Folks, why not move the carping to the other thread and keep this one as a place for good discussion about everyone's verdict on the album?
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: SwedishGoose on October 28, 2017, 01:05:24 AM
Folks, why not move the carping to the other thread and keep this one as a place for good discussion about everyone's verdict on the album?

"But her emails" 😉

Dereks comments are all over the place, we are just following his lead..... I do agree though. Would be good to keep it in one thread.
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: nobloodyname on October 28, 2017, 01:12:16 AM
Don't get me wrong, I have no issue with discussing Derek's comments at all. It'd just be nice if we could keep this thread solely for discussion about the music and the other one for all the extraneous shit going down :biggrin:
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: SwedishGoose on October 28, 2017, 01:14:30 AM
Agree... the Sherinian poking fu at Jordan thread was made soecifically for that purpouse
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: The Silent Cody on October 28, 2017, 01:54:55 AM
Wow, I never heard that one ! Very cool, it has some The Dance Of Eternity, One Last Time and Metroplis pt 1 elements, and something not known for me. It's very different from what I've known from FII demos, thank You ;)
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: MirrorMask on October 28, 2017, 03:10:38 AM
So it was Derek the whole time? never knew that! I did remember the Metropolist pt.2 demo leak, and I remembered as well his comment "If it's out, it's out, I'm not gonna cry over spilled milk"... which he totally forgot when someone from the studio leaked the footage of Bumblefoot. Of course he had a right to be annoyed and to ask to not spread the word for those who didn't knew, but that was another case of spilled milk.
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: MirrorMask on October 28, 2017, 05:13:20 AM
I have another "verdict" to give so to speak, which will sound heresy to many I guess... but I've decided to trim things a bit. There are some who would prefer instrumental versions of the songs, especially DT songs (for those of course who are into James' voice), and that to me is even more "heretic" 'cause the singing is the key of a song for me, but since I always drift off during the long solo sections of the songs, I've decided to put to use my rudimental audio editing skills and trim the songs.

It's not that the solo section are horrible, for example Signs of the Time's is quite good all things considered, but each time I listen to the album I almost forget which song it is until JSS starts to sings again at the end, so I've cut some portions here and there. I've shortened and streamlined the solo sections of God of the Sun, Signs of the Time and Labyrinth, completely removed Figaro's Whore save the last part which I think makes for a good prelude to Divine Addiction, and well, I've cut so much off Opus Maximus that I don't even want to tell about it  :P

So now, just like I had a "shorter version" of The Astonishing with some of the songs removed from the playlist, now I have a 50 minutes, 8 songs version of Psychotic Symphony, which is the one I'll probably listening to from now on.

I don't expect people to agree with me of course, but then again, as I said, there are people that would prefer DT songs without James' singing, and that to me is even more weird  :D
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Orbert on October 28, 2017, 06:28:27 AM
What are you guys listening to?  I click on the jpg, and all I get is a bigger jpg, no audio.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: MirrorMask on October 28, 2017, 06:39:06 AM
What are you guys listening to?  I click on the jpg, and all I get is a bigger jpg, no audio.

I assume they go looking for places where music can be found. They're not listening through the link, which is indeed a jpg.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: TAC on October 28, 2017, 07:04:43 AM
Orbert is working my side of the street. :lol
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: noxon on October 28, 2017, 07:18:16 AM
Such horrible misspellings on that sheet.. ;)

Anyways, it was apparent when it was leaked that it was Derek doing it. The reason for him doing it was also apparent: he felt like he deserved some praise for SFAM as several ideas were reused in that CD. The Demo version leaked was cut short to include most of the stuff DT reused - making it more apparent what Derek had participated on. THe actual demo version that Mike released on the FII demos was 21 minutes long.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: gzarruk on October 28, 2017, 09:49:01 AM
Anyways, it was apparent when it was leaked that it was Derek doing it. The reason for him doing it was also apparent: he felt like he deserved some praise for SFAM as several ideas were reused in that CD. The Demo version leaked was cut short to include most of the stuff DT reused - making it more apparent what Derek had participated on. THe actual demo version that Mike released on the FII demos was 21 minutes long.

This.

Also, I find they removed all "Derekisms" from the song on SFAM, so I don't think any of his contributions to it ended up being used on the final version.

Btw, I'm so glad they didn't get to release this on FII, because we got the mighty SFAM from it  :metal
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: MirrorMask on October 28, 2017, 10:05:05 AM
Btw, I'm so glad they didn't get to release this on FII, because we got the mighty SFAM from it  :metal

Yeah, the bittersweet irony of it all: through all the torment and frustations they went through for the FII sessions, the outcome was one of their acclaimed masterpieces. Had they had free reins at the time, we'd have "just" gotten Metropolis pt.2 as a long song (and a quirky version of Burning My Soul stopping in the middle for a completely different instrumental break  :D )
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Madman Shepherd on October 28, 2017, 10:18:32 AM
Btw, I'm so glad they didn't get to release this on FII, because we got the mighty SFAM from it  :metal

Yeah, the bittersweet irony of it all: through all the torment and frustations they went through for the FII sessions, the outcome was one of their acclaimed masterpieces. Had they had free reins at the time, we'd have "just" gotten Metropolis pt.2 as a long song (and a quirky version of Burning My Soul stopping in the middle for a completely different instrumental break  :D )

I agree with you for the most part except that I don't think the majority of people view it as their acclaimed masterpiece.  For a long time that album was panned by most DT fans I knew and on message boards, mailing lists, etc.  People have been more kind over time.

In fact, when I finally got the FII demos I was shocked at how underwhelming they were.  People who had got the Cleaning Out the Closet CD raved about how much better they were than the actual album.  Perhaps they were just caught up in the emotion of hearing Portnoy trash the album so much. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: KevShmev on October 28, 2017, 10:22:56 AM
I think Mirror Mask was alluding to Scenes being their acclaimed masterpiece. :)

And I agree about the FII demos.  Every single one of those songs that ended up on FII is better on the album than on the demo.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Mosh on October 28, 2017, 10:28:20 AM
Yup. I love that the demos are available and there's some good stuff, but this was a case of outside influences being right. Those changes needed to happen. There are still some major missteps on the album but that's more because the band was creatively lost than outside meddling.

I do wish Raise the Knife made it on the album though. If they included that and got rid of You Not Me, Burning My Soul, and Just Let Me Breathe the album would've improved a ton.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: MirrorMask on October 28, 2017, 10:31:09 AM
I think Mirror Mask was alluding to Scenes being their acclaimed masterpiece. :)

Indeed, I probably didn't word it clearly but I meant that after the trials and tribulations of FII, the following album (the outcome of such frustation and desire to do things on their own terms) produced SFAM, aka their acclaimed masterpiece.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Ben_Jamin on October 28, 2017, 10:32:09 AM
Take Away My Pain was best when they performed it live with the demo feel and studio chorus. Thats how the song should have been on the record. It really captures the emotion in the lyrics.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: RodrigoAltaf on October 28, 2017, 10:37:02 AM
I wasn´t there of course, but I think that their dissatisfaction with FII has less to do with record company interference than they think/are ready to admit. JP has said recently that the album came out as they intended to. I think they lost a majnor creative force when KM left, and had a hard time to adjust to the new state of things when Derek joined. Creatively, I think their musical horizons expanded in all sorts of different directions, and they wanted to reinvent themselves instead of releasing another Awake or I&W and staying in their comfort zone. As is the case with any shift in direction, there´s a period of adjustment, and that might have led to some frustration, of course. I honestly didn´t enjoy the album when it came out, but 21 years later, I appreciate it for what it is, and it´s one of their albums I listen to the most.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: MirrorMask on October 28, 2017, 10:43:03 AM
Well, the record company had its say in many of the songs. Petrucci was more willing and open to the idea of accepting suggestions, Portnoy was strongly against it. But I agree that that's the kind of music they wanted to do at the time, it's not that FII is all commercial, pop-like songs and the demos are insane prog heavy metal in the vein of Awake. That was the style nevertheless. And I have to say I agree with most of the decisions imposed on them - Hollow Years is better with the bridge streamlined, Burning My Soul flows better without half of Hell's Kitchen stuck in the middle, even You Not Me, for what it is, is catchier the way it's on the album.

And again, another good outcome out of a seemingly bad situation - having to split Hell's Kitchen from Burning My Soul made them write that brilliant ending section, that would tie in to Lines in the Sand.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: KevShmev on October 28, 2017, 10:45:22 AM
What is interesting is that time period is the one where the shorter rocking/metal songs were probably the weakest of the lot.

Longer, proggy tunes all great: Lines in the Sand, Trial of Tears and Raise the Knife
Slow songs/ballads all very good/great: Take Away My Pain, Anna Lee, Hollow Years and Speak to Me
Short rockers/metal tunes all...okay/mediocre: Just Let Me Breathe, Burning My Soul, Cover My Eyes (rocking demo version pretty mediocre vs the much better live acoustic version) and You Not Me

That's the funny thing: if we condense FII down to the best 78-79 minutes from those sessions, it would be mostly longer, proggy tunes and slow songs, plus Peruvian Skies (which is much slow and rocking), with no "normal length" rockers.  It would be kind of a strange album from that standpoint.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Mosh on October 28, 2017, 10:59:47 AM
That's kind of the album's problem. They were a prog Metal band playing and hanging out with other Metal bands (watch the footage from 5 Years In a LIVEtime). I think there was internal resistance to the mellower/prog rock approach to much of the album and they came up with some really mediocre Metal songs to balance it out. Those songs ended up sounding incredibly forced.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Madman Shepherd on October 28, 2017, 11:11:38 AM
I think Mirror Mask was alluding to Scenes being their acclaimed masterpiece. :)

Indeed, I probably didn't word it clearly but I meant that after the trials and tribulations of FII, the following album (the outcome of such frustation and desire to do things on their own terms) produced SFAM, aka their acclaimed masterpiece.

Ah, I wasn't paying attention to what you quoted. That makes sense and indeed SFAM is their acclaimed masterpiece. 

I have noticed a lot of people being far too kind to FII.  I mean, its a great album both creatively and sonicly but when I first got into DT after SFAM a lot of the old school fans were like, "Thank god they didn't release another FII."  Then again, DT fans have a reputation for being all over the map so I guess it's par for the course. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: gzarruk on October 28, 2017, 11:26:41 AM
I think Mirror Mask was alluding to Scenes being their acclaimed masterpiece. :)

Indeed, I probably didn't word it clearly but I meant that after the trials and tribulations of FII, the following album (the outcome of such frustation and desire to do things on their own terms) produced SFAM, aka their acclaimed masterpiece.

Ah, I wasn't paying attention to what you quoted. That makes sense and indeed SFAM is their acclaimed masterpiece. 

I have noticed a lot of people being far too kind to FII.  I mean, its a great album both creatively and sonicly but when I first got into DT after SFAM a lot of the old school fans were like, "Thank god they didn't release another FII."  Then again, DT fans have a reputation for being all over the map so I guess it's par for the course.

I think we can all agree on the fact that DT has never released a bad album. However, I think FII and BC&SL are two of their most disappointing (for DT standards), but if we compare them to other bands' albums, they're way better, in most cases.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Madman Shepherd on October 28, 2017, 11:50:22 AM
I think Mirror Mask was alluding to Scenes being their acclaimed masterpiece. :)

Indeed, I probably didn't word it clearly but I meant that after the trials and tribulations of FII, the following album (the outcome of such frustation and desire to do things on their own terms) produced SFAM, aka their acclaimed masterpiece.

Ah, I wasn't paying attention to what you quoted. That makes sense and indeed SFAM is their acclaimed masterpiece. 

I have noticed a lot of people being far too kind to FII.  I mean, its a great album both creatively and sonicly but when I first got into DT after SFAM a lot of the old school fans were like, "Thank god they didn't release another FII."  Then again, DT fans have a reputation for being all over the map so I guess it's par for the course.

I think we can all agree on the fact that DT has never released a bad album. However, I think FII and BC&SL are two of their most disappointing (for DT standards), but if we compare them to other bands' albums, they're way better, in most cases.

I would agree except I would say FII is not disappointing.  Of course, I became a fan after the release so I wasn't able to feel the initial disappointment some felt.  I would actually put BC&SL in with The Astonishing for disappointment. 

Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ytserush on October 28, 2017, 01:01:39 PM
IMHO, this is the only way 50-60 year old guys should do band pics.

(https://media.cleveland.com/rockhall_impact/photo/rush-neil-peart-alex-lifeson-geddy-lee-andrew-macnaughtanjpg-a6eb2fbd41c48053.jpg)

 :heart
This has got to be the best band photo I've ever seen.  :lol

Rush has better ones.....(and also worse ones.)
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: KevShmev on October 28, 2017, 01:21:10 PM


I would agree except I would say FII is not disappointing.  Of course, I became a fan after the release so I wasn't able to feel the initial disappointment some felt.  I would actually put BC&SL in with The Astonishing for disappointment.

I was a fan at the time of FII's release, and while I knew it wasn't as good as the prior two records, I still like it a lot.

As a fan since 1993, the only DT album that I was initially disappointed with as a whole was Train of Thought (which ironically I now prefer to the three albums that came after it).
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: jakepriest on October 28, 2017, 01:32:41 PM
I think I'd actually enjoy this album quite a bit if it was instrumental. I can't stand this type of vocals, be it JSS or Allens.
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: Stadler on October 29, 2017, 12:54:16 PM
Can I get a TLDR on DS's behvariour? What happened there? I tuned out after I heard the first song - not my cup of tea.

99% of the times he was tweeting about the band, he was using hashtag to antagonize and mock DT: #noipads, #nocheesyvocals, #nodroidbullshit etc etc, every post essentially 9 times out of 10 was a stab at DT, his entire hype campaign was based on the concept "We're not doing what those losers in DT are doing".

Or, if you're of a different opinion, just having some fun and poking fun at his old band and the inevitable comparisons between the two. 

He never once called them "losers" or anything like that, and he at one point acknowledged that it was all a joke and poking fun.   

Where did he do that?

Not sure, but I'm also not sure it matters.

Yeah.
1.  He didn't (as far as I've seen, anyway).  But:
2.  As you said, it doesn't really matter.

There was a tweet, I'm guessing about two weeks ago, and it might have been technically from Mike, but it referred to the joking about their former band. 

All water under the bridge when referring to the music, though, I agree.

What a fantastic argument you made there, very solid!

1. "Derek acknowledged that it was all a joke"
2. Don't post proof
3. Actually Derek didn't post the tweet, it was Mike.
4. It doesn't matter anyway.

If it doesn't matter, and you're not going to post proof, and you agree that your original claim was false anyway, and someone else posted this tweet... then why bother contradicting the original person at all?

Listen, stop with the "posting proof" stuff.  I put about ten links to things about two months ago (regarding the relationship between LaBrie and Portnoy) and the reaction was either a) I was told I was "being one note" and harping on stuff that didn't need to be repeated again, or b) it was mostly ignored by the person I was debating with.  So don't play that.  You can search Twatter just as easily as I can, and in fact probable easier, since I don't follow a ton of Twitter stuff.  The comments are also discussed enough here that it's not like I'm revealing lost JFK assassination documents.    It's a simple google.   

As for "Mike's tweet" versus "Derek's tweet", you can't have it both ways.  Either Mike's in charge of the band, and so he's guilty of Derek's sins too - but in which case, his defenses count too - or he's not, and they don't.  The consensus here is "it's his band", it's "the Del Fuvio brothers", not just Derek, and so I'm okay with using Mike's tweet to clarify Derek's intent.   
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: Stadler on October 29, 2017, 01:01:00 PM
Don't mind Stadler.  He's a good guy, but he is, by his own admission, part of "Team Mike" and will usually spin just about anything so that it reflects positively on Portnoy. It's almost a running joke at this point, and he never lets us down.  :tup :tup

That sounds like you're talking about the doddering old uncle that sits at the window watching the sunrise, then moves over to the TV to watch Dr. Phil.    Yeah, Team Mike, but not delusionally so.  I don't like everything he does - I HATE Amob, and Sons of Apollo is dangerously close to Amob for me, I'm not really all that thrilled about the "87 bands" (I think it dilutes things too much), and I'm pretty pissed off about the forum stuff (and not just because I posted there, but because of the message it sends).    I'm just willing to see both sides, and acknowledge that both sides might have elements of truth to them.   
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: The Walrus on October 29, 2017, 01:33:58 PM
I recall your 'proof' about JLB being debunked - just because you posted it doesn't mean you're off the hook. You posted something about what JLB said, and then I personally even refuted it showing that he didn't say what you said he did. I remember telling you to read the article, because you put words in JLB's mouth, the "quotes" you quoted were things he didn't even say. So, again: consistency, Stadler, that is what you have harped on about repeatedly, so please follow that. :)
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: majo on October 29, 2017, 02:55:25 PM
Mike doesn't refer to them as jokes, either. He knows exactly what people are talking about, and he either calls it "Del Fuvian bravado" or "Sherinianisms."

And, most recently, 'Shitstirinian'. Because stirring shit on the internet is hilarious...

...until it gets sent back to you, in which case you close down your forum, delete comments from Facebook, trash a 'rival' (in his mind) forum, and bemoan the hurtful "poisonous negativity" on the internet and plaintively ask why we all can't just get along and be civil to each other.
bulls-eye  :tup
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: Madman Shepherd on October 29, 2017, 03:02:37 PM
Stadler, if google is so easy to use, why don't you just use it. 

Like Kattelox said, the last time you did post "proof" of something you said, the headline was not only out of context, it bordered on an outright lie. 

Honestly, you seem like a decent enough dude but I don't understand why this is your hill to die on. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Anguyen92 on October 29, 2017, 06:11:04 PM
For anyone that cares on how many copies of albums they sold in the debut week in the states, this is usually the site I check on first week.

https://hitsdailydouble.com/building_album_chart

They are not even listed in the top 50, but Trivium, whose new album was out in the same week, sold about 16.5k physical copies (which is basically on par with what they have been selling in the first week of their album releases this decade).

This link which includes streaming services, Sons of Apollo were not on it as well. 

https://hitsdailydouble.com/sales_plus_streaming

Maybe not the greatest start in hopes of creating a second album, but maybe the live shows can bring some goodwill towards this band having a good future.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Madman Shepherd on October 29, 2017, 07:23:19 PM
For anyone that cares on how many copies of albums they sold in the debut week in the states, this is usually the site I check on first week.

https://hitsdailydouble.com/building_album_chart

They are not even listed in the top 50, but Trivium, whose new album was out in the same week, sold about 16.5k physical copies (which is basically on par with what they have been selling in the first week of their album releases this decade).

This link which includes streaming services, Sons of Apollo were not on it as well. 

https://hitsdailydouble.com/sales_plus_streaming

Maybe not the greatest start in hopes of creating a second album, but maybe the live shows can bring some goodwill towards this band having a good future.

A quick google search shows ADTOE did 40,000 it's first week to land at number 8 on the charts.  DT12 did 34,000 to land number 7 on the charts.  Sold less but charted higher basically showing the state of record sales.  Astonishing did 30,000 and landed at number 11. 

I'm not at all versed in how the record industry and popular music is doing in today's world, but I honestly expected more than 3300 physical sales or 10,000 sales including streaming. 
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: axeman90210 on October 29, 2017, 08:28:46 PM
My reaction so far is that it's about a 6, 6.5. It's fine but certainly nothing in the realm of "reclaiming the throne". For the most part I do like JSS's vocals, they bring something different to the mix. He sounds *terrible* though at the beginning of Labyrinth, I don't know how they heard that and decided to go with it on the album. Still love the hook in the chorus of Sign of the Times.
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: The Curious Orange on October 30, 2017, 02:16:11 AM
Nice to see someone getting back to the music!

I gave it an 8. It's far from perfect, but it's a hell of a lot better than The Astonishing. If it were MP's new "permanent band" I'd say it was too derivative of DT, but as it's clearly "yet another side project" (given that other band members have other commitments) I can forgive that. If anything, I'd say the shorter, classic rock type of tracks aren't DT enough.

JSS' vocals grew on me. He's got a Ronnie James Dio quality on the heavier stuff and a Geoff Tate quality on the more melodic stuff (In the sense that Tate has a great metal voice, and not in the sense that Tate is a total a$$hole).

Hopefully if they do a second album Sheeran and Soto will be more involved in the song writing stage.
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: noxon on October 30, 2017, 02:32:57 AM
It very much IS MP's new "permanent band". He's said so many times.





































But then again, so did he with Adrenaline Mob and Winery Dogs, so...
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: erwinrafael on October 30, 2017, 03:16:11 AM
This is the song that made me love JSS's voice.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=BIlN4shUCGc

Which is why I can not get how he sounded the way he did in Labyrinth.
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: Zydar on October 30, 2017, 03:18:51 AM
I'm slowly warming up to this album, actually. God Of The Sun is my favourite so far.
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: ariich on October 30, 2017, 06:13:09 AM
I must be missing something as I don't know what vocal bit in Labyrinth everyone is talking about. Timestamp?
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: erwinrafael on October 30, 2017, 06:41:46 AM
The start where he was singing gently with some falsetto notes.
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: Lowdz on October 30, 2017, 06:52:30 AM
This is the song that made me love JSS's voice.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=BIlN4shUCGc

Which is why I can not get how he sounded the way he did in Labyrinth.

That is an awesome performance, as was the Queen convention gig 15 years or so ago. The band posted a link to the YouTube video of it (which is a bit dodgy as it is commercially available but I guess Jeff must have given the go ahead).
I think he has lost a bit of sparkle from his voice but he’s been at it years so it’s inevitable. He’s certainly still a fine singer.
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: ariich on October 30, 2017, 07:22:41 AM
The start where he was singing gently with some falsetto notes.
Not sure what's supposed to be wrong with that bit. Seems to fit the mood well.
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: The Walrus on October 30, 2017, 07:30:11 AM
As others have noted, it sounds like he's straining; go a note or two higher and his voice will break. Sounds like me singing in my car: muy mal.
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: ariich on October 30, 2017, 07:36:12 AM
Sure, but that fragility fits the mood of those opening bars pretty well to my ears. I'd never thought anything of it, and still don't. Fair enough if people aren't keen on it, I guess, just from the comments I was expecting bad singing.
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: Peter Mc on October 30, 2017, 07:59:08 AM
Ok, have had this for a few days now so my early verdict is that it is a lot better than I was expecting especially after seeing some 3/10 ratings and below on here.  They seem very, very harsh but clearly everyone is entitled to their opinion.

I was not keen on the first 2 singles released, they weren't terrible but nothing especially exciting either.  Was also not excited about the line up apart from Portnoy/Sherinian (I refuse to call them the Del Fuvio Brothers!).  Not a massive fan of Sherinian in DT but have always loved his lead tone which is almost as cool as lead guitar (intro into LITS is one of the great keyboard moments of all time imo).  Was less of a fan of some of his in song playing though and FII is one of the patchier albums for me even if it does have some great songs on it.  When I say I was not a fan of the line up, this should not be taken as a slight on Jeff Scott Soto who I have been a huge fan of in his days with Yngwie Malmsteen and Axel Rudi Pell, I even enjoyed his Soul Sirkus album with Neal Schon but I just assumed his voice would be shot by now and also felt that he was not heavily involved in the songwriting for most of the projects I listened to so was unsure what he'd add.

Lost in Oblivion was the first single that got me a little more excited as Soto sounded great on the chorus which I also thought was catchy and melodic.

Listed to the album initially on Apple Music and and God Of The Sun just sounded great (apart from the instrumental section) classic DS intro and riff and, when Soto kicked in on the chorus, it was like welcoming an old friend back, been so long since I'd heard him and I fell in love with his voice again.  Don't understand the criticism on here for Soto, I really think he elevates these songs immensely especially in the choruses.  I do accept that his vocals sound rough at the beginning of Labyrinth and they should not really be on the record in that form for me but, apart from that, he sounds great considering he's been around since the early-mid 80's.  Like I said wasn't initially keen on the chugga chugga instrumental section but it has grown on me to the extent that it doesn't detract from the song anymore.

The two singles that follow remain just ok, don't feel the need to skip them but they are nothing special imo, I do enjoy Ron Thal's soloing in Signs of the Time though.  Labyrinth took a while for me as no real huge hooky chorus to hang on to and it just seemed to be all over the place.  I have gradually come to really appreciate it though and it's now a highlight of the album.

Alive is a decent radio friendly rocker which should really have been the single for me ahead of Coming Home, much more crafted and accomplished for me.  Really enjoy Lost In Oblivion and Divine Addiction is just great, love the Purple sound and the chrorus could have been pulled from Soto's time in Yngwie/Axel.  He would have killed this chorus even more in his pomp.

Still struggling to come to terms with Opus Maximus although I like bits of it.  Compare this though with something from LTE and it is not even in the same league.

Overall I would give this around 8 out of 10.  It's not perfect by any means and not on the level of DT (this would be DT's worst album if it was by DT).  I do agree that the songs are not as meticulously crafted as DT in that the songs don't flow as well from section to section but there's a lot to like for me and I am not an MP fanboy (JP fanboy all the way!).  I really don't see this as 2 or 3 out of 10 if you are a fan of DT.

Some of the "banter" has been over the top, childish and unseemly but, in some ways, Derek is entitled to be bitter about the way DT treated him, it's more surprising though as he has never acted like this previously since he was fired, so why now?.  MP's part in it is less surprising considering how he acts in general and more disappointing considering how thin skinned he is himself to any criticism.  It does seem silly strategy though to take a group of fans who you'd think would be biased towards this band and excited to hear them as they have two former members of DT and turn them against you.  If DT fans are biased against a prog metal band featuring Mike Portnoy and Derek Sherinian then MP/DS have got something badly wrong!

Hope these guys can stick it out and we then have two decent prog metal bands releasing music.

On a side note this is head and shoulders above any of Mike's other post DT bands imo (I don't include TA and NM in this as these were in existence prior to him leaving DT)
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: bosk1 on October 30, 2017, 07:59:57 AM
The start where he was singing gently with some falsetto notes.
Not sure what's supposed to be wrong with that bit. Seems to fit the mood well.
Same here.  I wasn't sure what we were supposed to be objecting to before Kattelox posted it.  And now that I do, my reaction is basically:
Sure, but that fragility fits the mood of those opening bars pretty well to my ears. I'd never thought anything of it, and still don't. Fair enough if people aren't keen on it, I guess, just from the comments I was expecting bad singing.
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: Lethean on October 30, 2017, 08:11:04 AM
I do think it's bad singing - it made me cringe when I heard it. As Kattelox said, I expect this from myself when singing in the car. Not something that should be on the final product.
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: The Walrus on October 30, 2017, 08:15:14 AM
EDIT: Nope, biting tongue...  :biggrin:
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: The Curious Orange on October 30, 2017, 08:15:57 AM
It very much IS MP's new "permanent band". He's said so many times.

But then again, so did he with Adrenaline Mob and Winery Dogs, so...

Even if this is Mike's new "permanent band", Derek's prime commitment is surely to Black Country Communion, and Billy's must be to Mr Big. So SoA can only ever be active when those two bands' schedules de-conflict. And I have no idea what other commitments Bumble and Soto have...
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Stadler on October 30, 2017, 08:27:36 AM
Rush has better ones.....(and also worse ones.)

My opinion only, but better ones:
(https://i.imgur.com/HAL21PU.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/jraDXCw.jpg)


Worse ones:
(https://i.imgur.com/boAJNSF.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/M9ZqRUr.jpg)
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: bill1971 on October 30, 2017, 08:36:46 AM
It very much IS MP's new "permanent band". He's said so many times.





































But then again, so did he with Adrenaline Mob and Winery Dogs, so...










and Dream Theater.....
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: bosk1 on October 30, 2017, 08:43:24 AM
I do think it's bad singing - it made me cringe when I heard it.

You might want to get that cringe reflex looked at.  I think it might be broken.
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: ariich on October 30, 2017, 08:46:31 AM
I do think it's bad singing - it made me cringe when I heard it. As Kattelox said, I expect this from myself when singing in the car. Not something that should be on the final product.
Sounds like to me like an artistic choice. If they wanted "strong" vocals in that section they could have easily done that, as evidenced all over the album. It's very obviously intentional.

Whether you like or not is a different question, obviously, and you're absolutely entitled not to like that approach or delivery or whatever.

You might want to get that cringe reflex looked at.  I think it might be broken.
Also this.
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: The Walrus on October 30, 2017, 08:50:27 AM
Well, yeah, it's intentional, doesn't mean it sucks any less. This guy sang Journey, Queen, Malmsteen and made it look effortless. What the fuck happened here?
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: Lethean on October 30, 2017, 09:00:38 AM
Enough people have commented on that part, including a huge fan of JSS, that I'm quite comfortable not getting anything checked out. Appreciate the concern though.
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: Schurftkut on October 30, 2017, 09:02:46 AM
dunno if you guys watched those EVH youtube interviews? all the bandmembers are doing them, Billy sheehan was talking about the winery dogs being his favourite band to be in.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: antigoon on October 30, 2017, 09:47:56 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/boAJNSF.jpg)


cool, but why'd you include a picture of the Golden Girls?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bosk1 on October 30, 2017, 09:52:58 AM
:rollin
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: erwinrafael on October 30, 2017, 09:58:19 AM
The start where he was singing gently with some falsetto notes.
Not sure what's supposed to be wrong with that bit. Seems to fit the mood well.
Same here.  I wasn't sure what we were supposed to be objecting to before Kattelox posted it.  And now that I do, my reaction is basically:
Sure, but that fragility fits the mood of those opening bars pretty well to my ears. I'd never thought anything of it, and still don't. Fair enough if people aren't keen on it, I guess, just from the comments I was expecting bad singing.

The problem for me is that I have heard Jeff Scott Soto do "fragile" many times before and this is not how he does fragile. It's precisely why I used his version of Save Me as an example. The first stanza of that song is Soto's "fragile" style of singing. You'll hear from it how he goes from falsetto to bursts of power to gentle vocals with full emotions without sounding like his voice would break.

In his upcoming solo album, JSS has another great example for his fragile emotional style of singing. His song for his brother who recently passed away:

Song for Joey (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1c8V7PeDNRQ)

That is how Jeff Scott Soto does "fragile" and whether I am boxing him to a certain style or not, I'm pretty sure that his track record shows that how the first part of Labyrinth was sung was not how a JSS fan would expect him to sing.

Anyway, I think some of you might have a blast watching this recent Youtube upload of JSS in a jam with Ron Thal. Great chemistry between the two:

Somebody to Love (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z1QlaJ5AvPw)

Purple Rain (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TlPVa3eVa5U)

Holy shit, where is this Jeff Scott Soto in the SoA record?

Jeff lost a lot of his range but wow, that beautiful tone is still there. And his falsetto does not falter, unlike that freaking Labyrinth intro that's like an anomaly in the JSS playbook.
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: Adami on October 30, 2017, 10:10:37 AM
Yea, this isn't a problem with the idea of doing soft or fragile vocals at all. It's 100% the execution. He sounded bad (to many of us). Whether he was trying to sound vulnerable is not relevant. It took me (and many others) out of the moment and that is a bad sign.

Glad you and others like it, but it seems a bunch of us were a bit thrown off by it.
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: Stadler on October 30, 2017, 10:43:31 AM
I recall your 'proof' about JLB being debunked - just because you posted it doesn't mean you're off the hook. You posted something about what JLB said, and then I personally even refuted it showing that he didn't say what you said he did. I remember telling you to read the article, because you put words in JLB's mouth, the "quotes" you quoted were things he didn't even say. So, again: consistency, Stadler, that is what you have harped on about repeatedly, so please follow that. :)

"He didn't say what you said he did" was "happy" versus "not sad".   If you're REALLY going to call saying "happy" versus "not sad" as "out of context" and an "outright lie" - quoting Madman Shepard directly, so there's no confusion here - well, that kind of makes my point that there is no discussing this.  At least there is SOME basis (Webster) for using "happy" and "not sad" interchangeably ("happy" and "sad" are listed as "antonyms" on the online version https://www.merriam-webster.com/thesaurus/happy); certainly a more factual basis than that used for calling Derek and Mike names and virtually guessing at what they're feeling and what their motives are. 

And for Madman Shepard:  I don't know how to link to tweets, but on September 11, Derek tweeted (and I cut and pasted this, so any errors are typographical and not an effort to take out of context or outright lie):  "Chops are great to have as a musician, but if you don't have metal and rock in your DNA, you are a fucking pussy".   Then some schmoe responded: "Oh, Derek. You're going to have the DTF forumers' knickers in a twist again with that one 😁" and Derek retweeted that.   Not any of the other ones defending Jordan, or calling bullcrap or any of that.  The one he retweets - which to my knowledge is a way of acknowledging the original as correct or positive or worthy of others' to see it - is the one that notes that he is playing to THIS SPECIFIC forum and its tendency to over-react.   
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: Stadler on October 30, 2017, 10:49:48 AM
Anyway, I think some of you might have a blast watching this recent Youtube upload of JSS in a jam with Ron Thal. Great chemistry between the two:

Somebody to Love (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z1QlaJ5AvPw)

Purple Rain (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TlPVa3eVa5U)

Holy shit, where is this Jeff Scott Soto in the SoA record?


I agree.   That would have added a ton to my appreciation of this record, and brought it out of the sort of "same-iness" I talked about.   It doesn't have to be full on Steve Perry (or Freddie Mercury), but some variation and color.    Or maybe use the rest of the band for harmonies.   Just not the generic rock scream.

By the way, the "Purple Rain" link is worth it alone for the cut to the audience singing and it sounds as if there are six other, unrelated, songs being sung other than Purple Rain.  :) 
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: The Walrus on October 30, 2017, 10:50:58 AM
I recall your 'proof' about JLB being debunked - just because you posted it doesn't mean you're off the hook. You posted something about what JLB said, and then I personally even refuted it showing that he didn't say what you said he did. I remember telling you to read the article, because you put words in JLB's mouth, the "quotes" you quoted were things he didn't even say. So, again: consistency, Stadler, that is what you have harped on about repeatedly, so please follow that. :)

"He didn't say what you said he did" was "happy" versus "not sad".   If you're REALLY going to call saying "happy" versus "not sad" as "out of context" and an "outright lie" - quoting Madman Shepard directly, so there's no confusion here - well, that kind of makes my point that there is no discussing this.  At least there is SOME basis (Webster) for using "happy" and "not sad" interchangeably ("happy" and "sad" are listed as "antonyms" on the online version https://www.merriam-webster.com/thesaurus/happy); certainly a more factual basis than that used for calling Derek and Mike names and virtually guessing at what they're feeling and what their motives are. 

I'm not arguing this again, you can go back and read the discussion. You offered up a link and you quoted JLB, except if you actually read the very article you shared, JLB did not say what you said he did. You've gone from 'quoting' JLB to now offering up a possible interpretation of a broad descriptor. I know how this went down and I'm not interested in arguing semantics. You quoted JLB and he did not say what you said he did, so please stop acting like I'm wrongly calling you out on that. You're a lawyer, you know well enough that you need to be specific and if you quote something it should be accurate. Let's discuss it in PM if you want to continue, my friend.
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: nobloodyname on October 30, 2017, 10:52:16 AM
Then some schmoe responded: "Oh, Derek. You're going to have the DTF forumers' knickers in a twist again with that one 😁" and Derek retweeted that.   

Oi. I am not "some schmoe", I'll have you know, son :lol
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: Lethean on October 30, 2017, 11:07:35 AM
Stadler, I have to say I was really surprised when I came here to see how far you go to defend MP.  I remember that whole "not sad" incident very well, and it was not a case of JL saying he was "happy" MP was gone. It's true that happy and sad are opposites, but this situation was not a case of not sad equaling happy Mike was gone. The interviewer basically asked "are you sad James?" and he said no he wasn't because he was looking forward to the future. When the whole thing went down on the MP forum, if I recall correctly, the interviewer himself came in to clarify and encourage everyone to listen to the whole thing because neither JL or the interview in general was disrespectful to MP.  And MP himself eventually acknowledged that he was "tricked" by Blabbermouth.

As for DS retweeting that comment about DTF - what is that proof of? It's proof of nothing.  It doesn't even say or imply that he's joking. Maybe he just retweeted it because he likes stirring shit.
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: Architeuthis on October 30, 2017, 11:30:32 AM
 :corn
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: Stadler on October 30, 2017, 11:34:44 AM
Then some schmoe responded: "Oh, Derek. You're going to have the DTF forumers' knickers in a twist again with that one 😁" and Derek retweeted that.   

Oi. I am not "some schmoe", I'll have you know, son :lol

Haha, well played.  :)   :)   :)
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: Stadler on October 30, 2017, 11:58:37 AM
Stadler, I have to say I was really surprised when I came here to see how far you go to defend MP.  I remember that whole "not sad" incident very well, and it was not a case of JL saying he was "happy" MP was gone. It's true that happy and sad are opposites, but this situation was not a case of not sad equaling happy Mike was gone. The interviewer basically asked "are you sad James?" and he said no he wasn't because he was looking forward to the future. When the whole thing went down on the MP forum, if I recall correctly, the interviewer himself came in to clarify and encourage everyone to listen to the whole thing because neither JL or the interview in general was disrespectful to MP.  And MP himself eventually acknowledged that he was "tricked" by Blabbermouth.

As for DS retweeting that comment about DTF - what is that proof of? It's proof of nothing.  It doesn't even say or imply that he's joking. Maybe he just retweeted it because he likes stirring shit.

No more than "#noapps" is definitely a scathing, personal attack on Jordan Rudess.   I'm less "defending Mike" than I am stepping up for fair assessment.   We have take Mike and Derek literally at their word, with no outside reference (including where Mike said he talks to the guys - three of them - regularly at this point), but when James says "not sad", we have to redefine words in a way that fits our argument, and extrapolate other sources to find ways so that he wasn't talking smack about Mike.   

It is just readily apparent to me that as long as it's negative, we can interpret subjectively the way we want and it's above ridicule, and when it's positive, it's akin to defending Harvey Weinstein's moral character.   
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: Stadler on October 30, 2017, 12:00:00 PM
Hey, do we know to what degree JSS made his own choices, and to what degree Derek "conducted" him?  I remember reading early on that Mike was "in charge" of this, but that Derek was handling a lot of the recording in LA, and I seem to recall "vocals" falling in that category.  Derek also wrote most of the lyrics, so that would lend itself to that scenario.

What do we know? 
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: bosk1 on October 30, 2017, 12:10:58 PM
Stadler, I have to say I was really surprised when I came here to see how far you go to defend MP.  I remember that whole "not sad" incident very well, and it was not a case of JL saying he was "happy" MP was gone. It's true that happy and sad are opposites, but this situation was not a case of not sad equaling happy Mike was gone. The interviewer basically asked "are you sad James?" and he said no he wasn't because he was looking forward to the future. When the whole thing went down on the MP forum, if I recall correctly, the interviewer himself came in to clarify and encourage everyone to listen to the whole thing because neither JL or the interview in general was disrespectful to MP.  And MP himself eventually acknowledged that he was "tricked" by Blabbermouth.

As for DS retweeting that comment about DTF - what is that proof of? It's proof of nothing.  It doesn't even say or imply that he's joking. Maybe he just retweeted it because he likes stirring shit.

No more than "#noapps" is definitely a scathing, personal attack on Jordan Rudess.   I'm less "defending Mike" than I am stepping up for fair assessment.   We have take Mike and Derek literally at their word, with no outside reference (including where Mike said he talks to the guys - three of them - regularly at this point), but when James says "not sad", we have to redefine words in a way that fits our argument, and extrapolate other sources to find ways so that he wasn't talking smack about Mike.   

It is just readily apparent to me that as long as it's negative, we can interpret subjectively the way we want and it's above ridicule, and when it's positive, it's akin to defending Harvey Weinstein's moral character.   

Not at all.  Your citation of a secondary source was turned out to objectively misrepresent what the primary source actually said.  Reviewing what was said, there is no fair or reasonable interpretation that fits your characterization.  Others pointed that out back when you made your original post.  It isn't about bias or redefining words to fit our bias.  It's about looking at what was actually said in context.  There really isn't much room for different interpretation.

Hey, do we know to what degree JSS made his own choices, and to what degree Derek "conducted" him?  I remember reading early on that Mike was "in charge" of this, but that Derek was handling a lot of the recording in LA, and I seem to recall "vocals" falling in that category.  Derek also wrote most of the lyrics, so that would lend itself to that scenario.

What do we know? 

The only thing I am aware of is basically what you said, coupled with a short snippet of footage where Derek is coaching JSS while JSS is recording.  It really isn't much to go on as far as drawing firm conclusions one way or the other. 
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: Ben_Jamin on October 30, 2017, 12:17:20 PM
Maybe that part was one that JSS and DS had an exchange over.
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: Stadler on October 30, 2017, 12:43:31 PM
Not at all.  Your citation of a secondary source was turned out to objectively misrepresent what the primary source actually said.  Reviewing what was said, there is no fair or reasonable interpretation that fits your characterization.  Others pointed that out back when you made your original post.  It isn't about bias or redefining words to fit our bias.  It's about looking at what was actually said in context.  There really isn't much room for different interpretation.

Agree to disagree.  Respectfully.   I'm dropping this, unless and until another post accuses me of being a liar. 
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: The Walrus on October 30, 2017, 12:53:06 PM
No one called you a liar. Misrepresentation =/= lie.
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: Lethean on October 30, 2017, 01:12:38 PM
Stadler, I have to say I was really surprised when I came here to see how far you go to defend MP.  I remember that whole "not sad" incident very well, and it was not a case of JL saying he was "happy" MP was gone. It's true that happy and sad are opposites, but this situation was not a case of not sad equaling happy Mike was gone. The interviewer basically asked "are you sad James?" and he said no he wasn't because he was looking forward to the future. When the whole thing went down on the MP forum, if I recall correctly, the interviewer himself came in to clarify and encourage everyone to listen to the whole thing because neither JL or the interview in general was disrespectful to MP.  And MP himself eventually acknowledged that he was "tricked" by Blabbermouth.

As for DS retweeting that comment about DTF - what is that proof of? It's proof of nothing.  It doesn't even say or imply that he's joking. Maybe he just retweeted it because he likes stirring shit.

No more than "#noapps" is definitely a scathing, personal attack on Jordan Rudess.   I'm less "defending Mike" than I am stepping up for fair assessment.   We have take Mike and Derek literally at their word, with no outside reference (including where Mike said he talks to the guys - three of them - regularly at this point), but when James says "not sad", we have to redefine words in a way that fits our argument, and extrapolate other sources to find ways so that he wasn't talking smack about Mike.   

It is just readily apparent to me that as long as it's negative, we can interpret subjectively the way we want and it's above ridicule, and when it's positive, it's akin to defending Harvey Weinstein's moral character.

How are you getting any of that from what I said? I'm not redefining anything. There's a difference in meaning from "I'm glad Portnoy is gone" and the way JL answered the question in that interview.  On top of that, the interviewer clarified it and then JL himself did. And MP eventually acknowledged he was wrong. So no one is redefining anything.

As for Derek, if he was being misinterpreted somehow, he's had ample opportunity to come out and clarify and apologize. He hasn't done so, and with a lot of his comments you really don't even have to read between the lines. Because someone is joking doesn't mean that what they are saying isn't still rude.
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: Stadler on October 30, 2017, 01:31:51 PM
No one called you a liar. Misrepresentation =/= lie.
Stadler, I have to say I was really surprised when I came here to see how far you go to defend MP.  I remember that whole "not sad" incident very well, and it was not a case of JL saying he was "happy" MP was gone. It's true that happy and sad are opposites, but this situation was not a case of not sad equaling happy Mike was gone. The interviewer basically asked "are you sad James?" and he said no he wasn't because he was looking forward to the future. When the whole thing went down on the MP forum, if I recall correctly, the interviewer himself came in to clarify and encourage everyone to listen to the whole thing because neither JL or the interview in general was disrespectful to MP.  And MP himself eventually acknowledged that he was "tricked" by Blabbermouth.

As for DS retweeting that comment about DTF - what is that proof of? It's proof of nothing.  It doesn't even say or imply that he's joking. Maybe he just retweeted it because he likes stirring shit.

No more than "#noapps" is definitely a scathing, personal attack on Jordan Rudess.   I'm less "defending Mike" than I am stepping up for fair assessment.   We have take Mike and Derek literally at their word, with no outside reference (including where Mike said he talks to the guys - three of them - regularly at this point), but when James says "not sad", we have to redefine words in a way that fits our argument, and extrapolate other sources to find ways so that he wasn't talking smack about Mike.   

It is just readily apparent to me that as long as it's negative, we can interpret subjectively the way we want and it's above ridicule, and when it's positive, it's akin to defending Harvey Weinstein's moral character.

How are you getting any of that from what I said? I'm not redefining anything. There's a difference in meaning from "I'm glad Portnoy is gone" and the way JL answered the question in that interview.  On top of that, the interviewer clarified it and then JL himself did. And MP eventually acknowledged he was wrong. So no one is redefining anything.

As for Derek, if he was being misinterpreted somehow, he's had ample opportunity to come out and clarify and apologize. He hasn't done so, and with a lot of his comments you really don't even have to read between the lines. Because someone is joking doesn't mean that what they are saying isn't still rude.

I consider you guys my buds.  Can you please let it go?  I said my peace.  I respectfully disagree.    It's getting uncomfortable; not because I feel I'm wrong or that I can't prove my point, but because to do so I'll be repeating myself, and I've already been admonished for that.  I don't want a ban, and I don't want to alienate (any further) anyone else here.   
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: The Walrus on October 30, 2017, 01:35:32 PM
You are my bud, and I will let it go. A little friction never hurt anyone (giggity).  :)
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: Lethean on October 30, 2017, 01:58:12 PM
That works for me. I may send you a pm, but am good to move on.

For now at least. I can't promise I'll never talk about again in general because it seems inevitable.  I find this forum mirrors real life conversations I've had about all this. We've talked about it so much that it seems there's nothing more to say and we move to other things, but eventually, somehow, the topic comes up again down the road and we talk about it some more. :)
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: Stadler on October 30, 2017, 01:58:16 PM
You are my bud, and I will let it go. A little friction never hurt anyone (giggity).  :)

That's what she said.
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: Stadler on October 30, 2017, 01:59:26 PM
That works for me. I may send you a pm, but am good to move on.

For now at least. I can't promise I'll never talk about again in general because it seems inevitable.  I find this forum mirrors real life conversations I've had about all this. We've talked about it so much that it seems there's nothing more to say and we move to other things, but eventually, somehow, the topic comes up again down the road and we talk about it some more. :)

If it comes up again, it comes up again.  We'll deal with it.  I'm just sensitive to having to repeat myself and in a thread that is a rating thread.   PM me; I'll talk about this shit all day long, that's not at all the problem. 
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: The Walrus on October 30, 2017, 02:03:26 PM
So...

... how bout them Sons?  :lol
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: JayOctavarium on October 30, 2017, 02:05:11 PM
So...

... how bout them Sons?  :lol


(https://cdn.inquisitr.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/Sons-of-Anarchy-cast_Where-Are-They-Now_Mayans-MC_FX.jpg)
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: Adami on October 30, 2017, 02:10:00 PM
I don't want a ban



I would love to be banned.

STOP FLIP FLOPPING!
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: bill1971 on October 30, 2017, 02:42:26 PM
Speaking of Sons of Anarchy, Labrie was wearing a Sons of Anarchy tshirt in L.A. I saw it on youtube sadly not in person.
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: Madman Shepherd on October 30, 2017, 04:38:27 PM
Stadler, I have to say I was really surprised when I came here to see how far you go to defend MP.  I remember that whole "not sad" incident very well, and it was not a case of JL saying he was "happy" MP was gone. It's true that happy and sad are opposites, but this situation was not a case of not sad equaling happy Mike was gone. The interviewer basically asked "are you sad James?" and he said no he wasn't because he was looking forward to the future. When the whole thing went down on the MP forum, if I recall correctly, the interviewer himself came in to clarify and encourage everyone to listen to the whole thing because neither JL or the interview in general was disrespectful to MP.  And MP himself eventually acknowledged that he was "tricked" by Blabbermouth.

As for DS retweeting that comment about DTF - what is that proof of? It's proof of nothing.  It doesn't even say or imply that he's joking. Maybe he just retweeted it because he likes stirring shit.

No more than "#noapps" is definitely a scathing, personal attack on Jordan Rudess.   I'm less "defending Mike" than I am stepping up for fair assessment.   We have take Mike and Derek literally at their word, with no outside reference (including where Mike said he talks to the guys - three of them - regularly at this point), but when James says "not sad", we have to redefine words in a way that fits our argument, and extrapolate other sources to find ways so that he wasn't talking smack about Mike.   

It is just readily apparent to me that as long as it's negative, we can interpret subjectively the way we want and it's above ridicule, and when it's positive, it's akin to defending Harvey Weinstein's moral character.

I know you guys have all made up and are planning a movie night to watch Mystic Pizza but I can't let one thing go. 

If Derek had mentioned #noapps once and then clarified that it was his personal preference and he doesn't judge people based on their usage of apps, it would be one thing.  But he didn't.  He carried on and on about no apps, cheese wiz, breathy vocals, ass puckering vocals, etc.  It came up in interview after interview. 

James on the other hand clarified later that when Mike announced he was leaving he WAS sad.  But he didn't want to mope around and he is excited about the future.  He didn't start hash tagging #notsad or #nomorecamelloogies or #youkeeponknockingbutyoucantcomein

Total false equivalency. 

Anyway, it's sad this is how it all went down because like another poster said, this is the best thing Mike has done post Dream Theater.  Unlike the other poster, I will even say this is better than Transatlantic or whatever else (which I never liked).

What I've heard I liked for the most part but my little protest meant they had one less album sale.  I didn't think it would make much difference but seeing their album sales or lack thereof, I guess it had more of an impact than they thought. 

#billboardtop500?


Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: ariich on October 30, 2017, 04:45:13 PM
I don't want a ban



I would love to be banned.

STOP FLIP FLOPPING!
omg you have word censors switched on? :lol
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: Adami on October 30, 2017, 05:09:34 PM
I had no idea that even was an option! Just fixed it.
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: ariich on October 30, 2017, 05:26:42 PM
Pfft you're such a noob.
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: Adami on October 30, 2017, 05:28:07 PM
Pfft you're such a noob.

This is true, though my joke wouldn't have worked otherwise.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ReaperKK on October 30, 2017, 09:03:01 PM
I can’t look at 80s Geddy Lee, he looks identical to my dad minus a mustache.
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: Lethean on October 30, 2017, 10:00:26 PM
I'm a newbie too, because I don't get it...
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: NoseofNicko on October 30, 2017, 10:13:16 PM
I don't want a ban



I would love to be banned.

STOP FLIP FLOPPING!
omg you have word censors switched on? :lol

Me too. How do you change it? Don’t see it in account settings.
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: portnoy311 on October 31, 2017, 04:14:18 AM
The drama surrounding this band is infinitely more interesting than the album.
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: MirrorMask on October 31, 2017, 04:17:47 AM
Who's the only one that gave it a ten?  :biggrin: I'm happy for him.

I voted 7 and as I said it's meant to be a 7,5. It's the most voted option so far, so at least here our consensus seems to be Good, quite good actually, but not mindblowing.
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: ariich on October 31, 2017, 04:55:56 AM
Who's the only one that gave it a ten?  :biggrin: I'm happy for him.

I voted 7 and as I said it's meant to be a 7,5. It's the most voted option so far, so at least here our consensus seems to be Good, quite good actually, but not mindblowing.
Yeah it's evened out quite a bit now. As you say, overall view seems to be solid album but nothing special.
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: w_marano on October 31, 2017, 05:12:42 AM
For those Who cares about album Sales and charts position, the Sons of Apollo appears on Billboard Top 200 and Billboard Top. Rock Álbuns, on #147 and #22, respectively. I was expecting more... Whatever.
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: SwedishGoose on October 31, 2017, 05:36:50 AM
For those Who cares about album Sales and charts position, the Sons of Apollo appears on Billboard Top 200 and Billboard Top. Rock Álbuns, on #147 and #22, respectively. I was expecting more... Whatever.

Well they got on the number 1 postion on Billboard Heatseakers, whatever that is....

The label and the band post about it
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: Sycsa on October 31, 2017, 05:45:39 AM
(https://scontent.fotp1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/22853118_1727994137509124_622228874141367149_n.jpg?oh=0bcac607d6587d7b61ecd563b49019b1&oe=5A6D2263)
Found this on FB. I guess we do live in a bubble after all. :lol
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: w_marano on October 31, 2017, 05:51:03 AM
For those Who cares about album Sales and charts position, the Sons of Apollo appears on Billboard Top 200 and Billboard Top. Rock Álbuns, on #147 and #22, respectively. I was expecting more... Whatever.

Well they got on the number 1 postion on Billboard Heatseakers, whatever that is....

The label and the band post about it

From Wikipedia: "Top Heatseekers are "Breaking and Entering" music charts issued weekly by BillboardMagazine. The Heatseekers Albums chart and the Heatseekers Songs charts were introduced by Billboard in 1991 with the purpose of highlighting the sales by new and developing musical recording artists.[1]Albums and songs appearing on Top Heatseekers may also concurrently appear on the Billboard 200 or Billboard Hot 100."
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: noxon on October 31, 2017, 06:04:12 AM
It's basically a participation medal for new bands ;)
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: Madman Shepherd on October 31, 2017, 06:13:31 AM
For those Who cares about album Sales and charts position, the Sons of Apollo appears on Billboard Top 200 and Billboard Top. Rock Álbuns, on #147 and #22, respectively. I was expecting more... Whatever.

I have no idea how this works. I just looked yesterday and there was nothing for the week of November 4th. But now for the week of November 11th it finally shows up. An album released 22 days before November 11th shows up on the charts published on October 31st 11 days after the album was released.

Anyway, Yeah I was expecting better. Thought they would at least break top 50.

Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: Stadler on October 31, 2017, 07:45:28 AM
I had no idea that even was an option! Just fixed it.

Wait. What?  I guess I'm a noob too.   What?  I'm confused. 
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: ariich on October 31, 2017, 07:46:48 AM
For those Who cares about album Sales and charts position, the Sons of Apollo appears on Billboard Top 200 and Billboard Top. Rock Álbuns, on #147 and #22, respectively. I was expecting more... Whatever.

I have no idea how this works. I just looked yesterday and there was nothing for the week of November 4th. But now for the week of November 11th it finally shows up. An album released 22 days before November 11th shows up on the charts published on October 31st 11 days after the album was released.

Anyway, Yeah I was expecting better. Thought they would at least break top 50.


A band with no name or track record in its first week? That was always very unlikely. The heatseekers thing (which I hadn't heard of before) is the sort of thing I would expect - excellent performance for a new band because its members are reasonably known and experienced. But there's no brand loyalty (except some towards MP) that an established band has that makes first week sales a must for many fans.
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: The Walrus on October 31, 2017, 07:48:40 AM
They're not wrong about making history... isn't this the first time Mike's band has charted next to GnR and Journey?  I mean they're greatest hits, but... :lol
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: Grappler on October 31, 2017, 07:58:11 AM
Regardless of the bickering back and forth on this thread, I can't stop listening to this disc.  JSS is so damn smooth on some of these songs, whether it's his voice or just the melody of the vocals - combine that with some big monster riffs, and that's all I need.
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: Anguyen92 on October 31, 2017, 08:40:54 AM
Does anyone have a good source on what the first week sales # are though?  This would be the best site for me, but they did not update the last week's charts so I'm not sure if they will do it this week and include Trivium and Sons of Apollo.

https://www.metalinsider.net/?s=Metal+By+Numbers+
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: Madman Shepherd on October 31, 2017, 09:22:50 AM
For those Who cares about album Sales and charts position, the Sons of Apollo appears on Billboard Top 200 and Billboard Top. Rock Álbuns, on #147 and #22, respectively. I was expecting more... Whatever.

I have no idea how this works. I just looked yesterday and there was nothing for the week of November 4th. But now for the week of November 11th it finally shows up. An album released 22 days before November 11th shows up on the charts published on October 31st 11 days after the album was released.

Anyway, Yeah I was expecting better. Thought they would at least break top 50.


A band with no name or track record in its first week? That was always very unlikely. The heatseekers thing (which I hadn't heard of before) is the sort of thing I would expect - excellent performance for a new band because its members are reasonably known and experienced. But there's no brand loyalty (except some towards MP) that an established band has that makes first week sales a must for many fans.

Didn't winery dogs break the top 30? I mean I guess kotzen has a bit of a name even though I'd never heard of him. Sure their music was a little more mainstream but that's a far cry from where sons of apollo ended up. All I'm saying is I expected top 50 at least.
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: Lethean on October 31, 2017, 09:24:04 AM
I had no idea that even was an option! Just fixed it.

Wait. What?  I guess I'm a noob too.   What?  I'm confused.

Your post #334 to me reads this: I would love to be banned.

I'm guessing you didn't write that?  But I don't know why Adami and I see that or how we can see what you really wrote.
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: Podaar on October 31, 2017, 09:29:17 AM
 :lol
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: The Walrus on October 31, 2017, 10:30:10 AM
I had no idea that even was an option! Just fixed it.

Wait. What?  I guess I'm a noob too.   What?  I'm confused.

Your post #334 to me reads this: I would love to be banned.

I'm guessing you didn't write that?  But I don't know why Adami and I see that or how we can see what you really wrote.

I am also completely confused.
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: Stadler on October 31, 2017, 10:33:57 AM
Stadler, I have to say I was really surprised when I came here to see how far you go to defend MP.  I remember that whole "not sad" incident very well, and it was not a case of JL saying he was "happy" MP was gone. It's true that happy and sad are opposites, but this situation was not a case of not sad equaling happy Mike was gone. The interviewer basically asked "are you sad James?" and he said no he wasn't because he was looking forward to the future. When the whole thing went down on the MP forum, if I recall correctly, the interviewer himself came in to clarify and encourage everyone to listen to the whole thing because neither JL or the interview in general was disrespectful to MP.  And MP himself eventually acknowledged that he was "tricked" by Blabbermouth.

As for DS retweeting that comment about DTF - what is that proof of? It's proof of nothing.  It doesn't even say or imply that he's joking. Maybe he just retweeted it because he likes stirring shit.

No more than "#noapps" is definitely a scathing, personal attack on Jordan Rudess.   I'm less "defending Mike" than I am stepping up for fair assessment.   We have take Mike and Derek literally at their word, with no outside reference (including where Mike said he talks to the guys - three of them - regularly at this point), but when James says "not sad", we have to redefine words in a way that fits our argument, and extrapolate other sources to find ways so that he wasn't talking smack about Mike.   

It is just readily apparent to me that as long as it's negative, we can interpret subjectively the way we want and it's above ridicule, and when it's positive, it's akin to defending Harvey Weinstein's moral character.

I know you guys have all made up and are planning a movie night to watch Mystic Pizza but I can't let one thing go. 

If Derek had mentioned #noapps once and then clarified that it was his personal preference and he doesn't judge people based on their usage of apps, it would be one thing.  But he didn't.  He carried on and on about no apps, cheese wiz, breathy vocals, ass puckering vocals, etc.  It came up in interview after interview. 

James on the other hand clarified later that when Mike announced he was leaving he WAS sad.  But he didn't want to mope around and he is excited about the future.  He didn't start hash tagging #notsad or #nomorecamelloogies or #youkeeponknockingbutyoucantcomein

Total false equivalency. 

Anyway, it's sad this is how it all went down because like another poster said, this is the best thing Mike has done post Dream Theater.  Unlike the other poster, I will even say this is better than Transatlantic or whatever else (which I never liked).

What I've heard I liked for the most part but my little protest meant they had one less album sale.  I didn't think it would make much difference but seeing their album sales or lack thereof, I guess it had more of an impact than they thought. 

#billboardtop500?

Either way, it's you subjectively and arbitrarily deciding what is appropriate behavior for Mike and Derek and what's not.  You deciding what he can and can't say and how he should say such things.  I disagree with that.  I just think it's odd that we we're making such a big deal - including not buying a record - because one guy said something that may or may not be meant in a mean spirited way, and may or may not be taken that way by the recipient (we have no way of knowing either thing unequivocally, it's just our individual guesses). 

On the music itself, I personally respect Derek's opinion on what he likes or doesn't like in a vocal.  Whether that leaves James in or out is not the point.  James (or someone like him) would be my first choice for SoA, and I make no bones about that.   JSS is a great singer, but he's too one-note in this project and it hurts the project, in my opinion.  As for "cheese", well, I get that others may not agree, but I thought "The Astonishing" WAS cheesy.  I bought the record, I saw the show, and it hasn't resonated.  I liked ADTOE and 12; I thought they were imperfect, but moving in the right direction, but to me, TA was a huge step back.  I can see a band that is inevitably going to be compared to that wanting to take a step back from that without completely distancing itself from the whole kit and caboodle.  It's a hard line to walk, and SoA has walked it very imperfectly so far, no doubt.  These guys have been around, but they aren't perfect and they aren't Bruce Springsteen, with an army of press and label support.  It's not a science.   

As for the sales, my guess only, but I imagine 99% of people don't even know about the bickering, let alone care about it.   I imagine the bickering has generated as many sales - simply through awareness - as it has discouraged them.   It's selling about as well as genre music can sell in 2017.
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: Stadler on October 31, 2017, 10:37:16 AM
I had no idea that even was an option! Just fixed it.

Wait. What?  I guess I'm a noob too.   What?  I'm confused.

Your post #334 to me reads this: I would love to be banned.

I'm guessing you didn't write that?  But I don't know why Adami and I see that or how we can see what you really wrote.

I did not write that.   I can't be certain - Adami can tell us - but for one of them, I'm pretty sure I quoted the great Michael Scott.  T h a t ' s   w h a t   s h e   s a i d.     I don't know what the other one originally said. 
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: portnoy311 on October 31, 2017, 10:43:09 AM
The Office is the best show of all time. But you gotta recognize Michael Scott was always quoting Wayne's World with that.

It's not dictating what behavior is acceptable to think someone is being an asshole and not want to support their work because of it.

And finally, no it's not selling as well as "genre music can in 2017." It's actually underperforming fairly drastically other bands that even MP has recently been involved in.
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: portnoy311 on October 31, 2017, 10:47:10 AM
I had no idea that even was an option! Just fixed it.

Wait. What?  I guess I'm a noob too.   What?  I'm confused.

Your post #334 to me reads this: I would love to be banned.

I'm guessing you didn't write that?  But I don't know why Adami and I see that or how we can see what you really wrote.


Profile -> Modify Profile -> Look and Layout -> [check] Leave Words Uncensored


I had no idea until Adami's post that censored words was a thing and aren't sure why no one else has answered how to change the setting.
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: rumborak on October 31, 2017, 10:47:37 AM
I am surprised when I see people being surprised that an album like this doesn't make a bigger splash. SoA is almost the definition of niche. Ex members of niche prog metal band who are in their 50s make semi-retro album. How could this seriously have any broad appeal?
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: The Walrus on October 31, 2017, 10:51:12 AM
Now I get it, and I think that's a hilarious censor.  :lol
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: Podaar on October 31, 2017, 10:53:48 AM
Now I get it, and I think that's a hilarious censor.  :lol

I know, right?!  :lol

For everyone that's still confused. Go to "Look and Layout" in your forum profile and check the box "Leave words uncensored."
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: Madman Shepherd on October 31, 2017, 11:11:19 AM
Stadler, I have to say I was really surprised when I came here to see how far you go to defend MP.  I remember that whole "not sad" incident very well, and it was not a case of JL saying he was "happy" MP was gone. It's true that happy and sad are opposites, but this situation was not a case of not sad equaling happy Mike was gone. The interviewer basically asked "are you sad James?" and he said no he wasn't because he was looking forward to the future. When the whole thing went down on the MP forum, if I recall correctly, the interviewer himself came in to clarify and encourage everyone to listen to the whole thing because neither JL or the interview in general was disrespectful to MP.  And MP himself eventually acknowledged that he was "tricked" by Blabbermouth.

As for DS retweeting that comment about DTF - what is that proof of? It's proof of nothing.  It doesn't even say or imply that he's joking. Maybe he just retweeted it because he likes stirring shit.

No more than "#noapps" is definitely a scathing, personal attack on Jordan Rudess.   I'm less "defending Mike" than I am stepping up for fair assessment.   We have take Mike and Derek literally at their word, with no outside reference (including where Mike said he talks to the guys - three of them - regularly at this point), but when James says "not sad", we have to redefine words in a way that fits our argument, and extrapolate other sources to find ways so that he wasn't talking smack about Mike.   

It is just readily apparent to me that as long as it's negative, we can interpret subjectively the way we want and it's above ridicule, and when it's positive, it's akin to defending Harvey Weinstein's moral character.

I know you guys have all made up and are planning a movie night to watch Mystic Pizza but I can't let one thing go. 

If Derek had mentioned #noapps once and then clarified that it was his personal preference and he doesn't judge people based on their usage of apps, it would be one thing.  But he didn't.  He carried on and on about no apps, cheese wiz, breathy vocals, ass puckering vocals, etc.  It came up in interview after interview. 

James on the other hand clarified later that when Mike announced he was leaving he WAS sad.  But he didn't want to mope around and he is excited about the future.  He didn't start hash tagging #notsad or #nomorecamelloogies or #youkeeponknockingbutyoucantcomein

Total false equivalency. 

Anyway, it's sad this is how it all went down because like another poster said, this is the best thing Mike has done post Dream Theater.  Unlike the other poster, I will even say this is better than Transatlantic or whatever else (which I never liked).

What I've heard I liked for the most part but my little protest meant they had one less album sale.  I didn't think it would make much difference but seeing their album sales or lack thereof, I guess it had more of an impact than they thought. 

#billboardtop500?

Either way, it's you subjectively and arbitrarily deciding what is appropriate behavior for Mike and Derek and what's not.  You deciding what he can and can't say and how he should say such things.  I disagree with that.  I just think it's odd that we we're making such a big deal - including not buying a record - because one guy said something that may or may not be meant in a mean spirited way, and may or may not be taken that way by the recipient (we have no way of knowing either thing unequivocally, it's just our individual guesses). 



Because the intended target has decided not to stoop to Derek's level or even acknowledge it. Looks like it didn't pay off.
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: Ben_Jamin on October 31, 2017, 11:16:06 AM
I'm glad I don't care about all the drama. If it interests me, I'll listen regardless of the way its promoted.

Now, its alright. Does sound like mainstream rock metal. Nothing exciting but I know for sure this will Rock and have energy live. People will enjoy it immensely after that.
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: Lethean on October 31, 2017, 11:25:03 AM
I had no idea that even was an option! Just fixed it.

Wait. What?  I guess I'm a noob too.   What?  I'm confused.

Your post #334 to me reads this: I would love to be banned.

I'm guessing you didn't write that?  But I don't know why Adami and I see that or how we can see what you really wrote.


Profile -> Modify Profile -> Look and Layout -> [check] Leave Words Uncensored


I had no idea until Adami's post that censored words was a thing and aren't sure why no one else has answered how to change the setting.

Thanks!  Now I have to confess - I'm still confused
 Why would "that's what she said" be censored in the first place?
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: Grappler on October 31, 2017, 11:37:37 AM
Thanks!  Now I have to confess - I'm still confused
 Why would "I would love to be banned" be censored in the first place?

He wrote "That's  What She Said" and the forum censored it into "I would love to be banned"
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: Dave_Manchester on October 31, 2017, 11:42:28 AM
^^ He knows that much, Lethean's question (and mine) is why is the Michael Scott phrase (as I'll call it, for those who are still seeing the censored version) censored?
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: Dave_Manchester on October 31, 2017, 11:49:04 AM
As for the chart placing, I also expected a higher position. Bosk wrote a post about why it perhaps wouldn't sell so well as AMob, and those points were well taken, but I still would have expected something higher than 147 on the proper chart (I'll ignore their 'number 1' position on the It's The Taking Part That Counts chart). Sure it's niche, but there's plenty of niche stuff above it. I'd have thought Portnoy's name alone, and his relatively big following on social media, would have seen this album ship enough copies to put it at least around the AMob figure (70). Oh well. I suppose a proper litmus test of this band's (indeed any new rock band's) potential popularity and longevity will be seen when they hit the road.
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: Adami on October 31, 2017, 11:51:52 AM
It's also possible MP is over saturating the market with....himself. When you are part of multiple releases every year, eventually people just stop being as excited.
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: Stadler on October 31, 2017, 11:57:54 AM
Because the intended target has decided not to stoop to Derek's level or even acknowledge it. Looks like it didn't pay off.

"Silence" means nothing but, well, "silence".   100 explanations for that, and only one is yours.   You're just presupposing what his emotional reaction is (coincidentally, in line with what YOU think it SHOULD be), and layering the actual response to it.   If we're going to do that - presuppose that DT is the target and that they should act as we would have them act, then I'm calling out James.    He wasted not a minute telling the world that one of his emotions following Mike's departure was "not sad" but he's not sticking up for his friend now?   Not a peep?  Not a hint?   Not a whisper?   Where's the chivalry?   
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: The Walrus on October 31, 2017, 12:05:37 PM
Except... he was asked how he felt... he didn't just go out and tell the world, "HEY! Look at what I have to say!"
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: deggs37 on October 31, 2017, 12:06:24 PM
I'd have thought Portnoy's name alone, and his relatively big following on social media, would have seen this album ship enough copies to put it at least around the AMob figure

It makes sense, actually. In the time between the first AMob album, and this recent release with Sons of Apollo,  I'm sure he's -or mods- banned a sizeable chunk of the people that would make the effort to buy his albums. Glancing at that billboard chart it looks like he banned maybe 100 chart levels worth of people.

But don't be jealous, you guys are no match for the Mike Portnoy left-click mouse shtyle
(https://i.redditmedia.com/D6pIKpOe2GhQlk98PEo7nd9H1Pwj-Ky8UZqbur79MfU.jpg?w=320&s=321ef739fb8bfa7a31181baff6fbf95d)
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: Skeever on October 31, 2017, 12:10:07 PM
So, what's the deal? Did the album chart? Will there be a tour? Do I live in a cave or is this project dead on arrival?
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: Lethean on October 31, 2017, 12:15:45 PM
Because the intended target has decided not to stoop to Derek's level or even acknowledge it. Looks like it didn't pay off.

"Silence" means nothing but, well, "silence".   100 explanations for that, and only one is yours.   You're just presupposing what his emotional reaction is (coincidentally, in line with what YOU think it SHOULD be), and layering the actual response to it.   If we're going to do that - presuppose that DT is the target and that they should act as we would have them act, then I'm calling out James.    He wasted not a minute telling the world that one of his emotions following Mike's departure was "not sad" but he's not sticking up for his friend now?   Not a peep?  Not a hint?   Not a whisper?   Where's the chivalry?

I thought you wanted to drop this?  The "not sad" thing is not what you think it is.  The interviewers took pains to clarify that.  You have to hear it in context.  And even if it was a swipe at Mike (which it isn't), what does that have to do with this scenario?  Not sticking up for JP or JR?  So what?  He isn't sticking up for himself either.  I for one certainly don't think he should "stick up" for anyone, nor should the rest of them.  I don't think it means anything specifically, just that they're not engaging.
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: Stadler on October 31, 2017, 12:40:00 PM
Because the intended target has decided not to stoop to Derek's level or even acknowledge it. Looks like it didn't pay off.

"Silence" means nothing but, well, "silence".   100 explanations for that, and only one is yours.   You're just presupposing what his emotional reaction is (coincidentally, in line with what YOU think it SHOULD be), and layering the actual response to it.   If we're going to do that - presuppose that DT is the target and that they should act as we would have them act, then I'm calling out James.    He wasted not a minute telling the world that one of his emotions following Mike's departure was "not sad" but he's not sticking up for his friend now?   Not a peep?  Not a hint?   Not a whisper?   Where's the chivalry?

I thought you wanted to drop this?  The "not sad" thing is not what you think it is.  The interviewers took pains to clarify that.  You have to hear it in context.  And even if it was a swipe at Mike (which it isn't), what does that have to do with this scenario?  Not sticking up for JP or JR?  So what?  He isn't sticking up for himself either.  I for one certainly don't think he should "stick up" for anyone, nor should the rest of them.  I don't think it means anything specifically, just that they're not engaging.

I did, I did.  Just when I thought I was out... they pull me back in.
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: nattmorker on October 31, 2017, 12:56:41 PM
It's also possible MP is over saturating the market with....himself. When you are part of multiple releases every year, eventually people just stop being as excited.

This could also be a factor. I know that for me is a combination of several things, this being one of them.
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: Madman Shepherd on October 31, 2017, 01:50:19 PM
Because the intended target has decided not to stoop to Derek's level or even acknowledge it. Looks like it didn't pay off.

"Silence" means nothing but, well, "silence".   100 explanations for that, and only one is yours.   You're just presupposing what his emotional reaction is (coincidentally, in line with what YOU think it SHOULD be), and layering the actual response to it.   If we're going to do that - presuppose that DT is the target and that they should act as we would have them act, then I'm calling out James.    He wasted not a minute telling the world that one of his emotions following Mike's departure was "not sad" but he's not sticking up for his friend now?   Not a peep?  Not a hint?   Not a whisper?   Where's the chivalry?

I thought you wanted to drop this?  The "not sad" thing is not what you think it is.  The interviewers took pains to clarify that.  You have to hear it in context.  And even if it was a swipe at Mike (which it isn't), what does that have to do with this scenario?  Not sticking up for JP or JR?  So what?  He isn't sticking up for himself either.  I for one certainly don't think he should "stick up" for anyone, nor should the rest of them.  I don't think it means anything specifically, just that they're not engaging.

I did, I did.  Just when I thought I was out... they pull me back in.

And you repeat the same argument that has been debunked by close to a dozen people? James did not go out if his way to say he isn't sad about Mike. He went out if his way to clarify what he meant. The interviewers did too. They dropped it.

This is just bizarre you're so stuck on this and repeat a completely fictional account of something so widely documented that contradict what you repeatedly say.


And AMob really debuted at 70? Wow. That makes me even more shocked SoA didn't do better.
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: Dave_Manchester on October 31, 2017, 01:59:06 PM
And AMob really debuted at 70? Wow. That makes me even more shocked SoA didn't do better.

Yup...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adrenaline_Mob#Discography

Even AMob's (very poor in my opinion) follow-up album, Men of Honor, hit 99.

I remember the build up to Omerta well, it was highly anticipated on his forum (his first project since leaving Dream Theater and many fans were curious to see what he'd do). The pre-release 'promotion' was also good (certainly in comparison with SoA anyway), with even his wife Marlene getting involved on his forum and helping to hype it, in a good way. No 'jokes' or mud-slinging or sly jabs at DT, just positive engagement with the fans about the upcoming album. 'Twas a simpler time.
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: bosk1 on October 31, 2017, 02:03:12 PM
I remember the build up to Omerta well, it was highly anticipated on his forum (his first project since leaving Dream Theater and many fans were curious to see what he'd do). The pre-release 'promotion' was also good (certainly in comparison with SoA anyway), with even his wife Marlene getting involved on his forum and helping to hype it, in a good way. No 'jokes' or mud-slinging or sly jabs at DT, just positive engagement with the fans about the upcoming album. 'Twas a simpler time.

Yes, and although it shouldn't NEED to be said, you hit right on the clarifying point:  What IS different about this time is that, rather than engage in what you rightly called "positive" promotion, Mike and Derek have instead chosen this time around to let there promotion consist of extensive jabs at DT and at the fan base.  That is indisputable.

Stadler's defense of, "well, but James did too!" is both factually wrong and completely irrelevant.
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: Stadler on October 31, 2017, 02:24:57 PM
Because the intended target has decided not to stoop to Derek's level or even acknowledge it. Looks like it didn't pay off.

"Silence" means nothing but, well, "silence".   100 explanations for that, and only one is yours.   You're just presupposing what his emotional reaction is (coincidentally, in line with what YOU think it SHOULD be), and layering the actual response to it.   If we're going to do that - presuppose that DT is the target and that they should act as we would have them act, then I'm calling out James.    He wasted not a minute telling the world that one of his emotions following Mike's departure was "not sad" but he's not sticking up for his friend now?   Not a peep?  Not a hint?   Not a whisper?   Where's the chivalry?

I thought you wanted to drop this?  The "not sad" thing is not what you think it is.  The interviewers took pains to clarify that.  You have to hear it in context.  And even if it was a swipe at Mike (which it isn't), what does that have to do with this scenario?  Not sticking up for JP or JR?  So what?  He isn't sticking up for himself either.  I for one certainly don't think he should "stick up" for anyone, nor should the rest of them.  I don't think it means anything specifically, just that they're not engaging.

I did, I did.  Just when I thought I was out... they pull me back in.

And you repeat the same argument that has been debunked by close to a dozen people? James did not go out if his way to say he isn't sad about Mike. He went out if his way to clarify what he meant. The interviewers did too. They dropped it.

This is just bizarre you're so stuck on this and repeat a completely fictional account of something so widely documented that contradict what you repeatedly say.

Look.  I appreciate all the credit you give me for not being a complete delusional moron - my words - but for the 100th time: 

James said something.  It was initially taken in a negative way (it was, you can't deny that; James even conceded that here:https://www.blabbermouth.net/news/dream-theater-singer-james-labrie-i-care-about-mike-portnoy-dearly/).   It was later corrected by him and others.  I understand very well what he was ultimately trying to say, but that's not how it came out the first time.   Fair enough, you're putting your money on the corrected version, in a wider context, including input from others (the journalist).

Derek said something.   It was initially taken in a negative way.  It was later - albeit, not as explicitly - explained by him, via retweet, to be a tweak of THIS FORUM, and also (partly) put into context by Mike who said that he was friends with DT and that he spoke to them regularly.    Yet, you ignore that, dismiss it, say it's not relevant, it wasn't clear enough for you, and so stick to the initial comments because, well, "he said it!"  We had this conversation here, in this forum.   

Mike is otherwise silent on Derek's postings, and you claim, in so many words, that silence is consent.  Because he didn't explicitly disavow them, he must agree with those comments, so he's [fill in the word: childish; immature; a douche].  How do we know this?  Because you've told us.  No other reason whatsoever.   But when DT - the alleged recipients of the "attacks" - opt to remain silent, somehow silence is now complete rejection, the mature way of handing things, and not at all tacit acceptance of the comments themselves.  How do we know this?  Because you've told us.   No other reason whatsoever. 

I've said before; pick a horse.   Either it's the totality of the information or it's the statement.   Silence is either meaningful or it's not.  I don't really care about the answer, as it's all subjective opinion.   I've already said - almost as many times as I've talked about the above - that I largely AGREE with you.  I don't like Derek's "jokes".  I don't think they are funny.  I don't like music as competition.  I don't like that Mike shut down his forum in the wake of negative comments.  I haven't fan-boyed the release of SoA; quite the opposite.  I feel it's a huge missed opportunity, and indicative of the shortcomings of the "bang it out in a week"/"87 bands" mentality, which, while I'm grateful for in one sense, I'm not a huge fan of overall.    I honestly don't know what more you want from me.  I just think that some people - here in particular - are looking at this too much through their own lenses of what they want to see, and are not open to possible explanations that contradict their pet theory.   That's all.  I'm entitled to that opinion, even if you don't agree.
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: Stadler on October 31, 2017, 02:26:59 PM
I remember the build up to Omerta well, it was highly anticipated on his forum (his first project since leaving Dream Theater and many fans were curious to see what he'd do). The pre-release 'promotion' was also good (certainly in comparison with SoA anyway), with even his wife Marlene getting involved on his forum and helping to hype it, in a good way. No 'jokes' or mud-slinging or sly jabs at DT, just positive engagement with the fans about the upcoming album. 'Twas a simpler time.

Yes, and although it shouldn't NEED to be said, you hit right on the clarifying point:  What IS different about this time is that, rather than engage in what you rightly called "positive" promotion, Mike and Derek have instead chosen this time around to let there promotion consist of extensive jabs at DT and at the fan base.  That is indisputable.

Stadler's defense of, "well, but James did too!" is both factually wrong and completely irrelevant.

That's not my defense, at least not that simply put.   
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: JayOctavarium on October 31, 2017, 02:29:55 PM
I like God of the Sun
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: Stadler on October 31, 2017, 02:33:20 PM
And AMob really debuted at 70? Wow. That makes me even more shocked SoA didn't do better.

Yup...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adrenaline_Mob#Discography

Even AMob's (very poor in my opinion) follow-up album, Men of Honor, hit 99.

I remember the build up to Omerta well, it was highly anticipated on his forum (his first project since leaving Dream Theater and many fans were curious to see what he'd do). The pre-release 'promotion' was also good (certainly in comparison with SoA anyway), with even his wife Marlene getting involved on his forum and helping to hype it, in a good way. No 'jokes' or mud-slinging or sly jabs at DT, just positive engagement with the fans about the upcoming album. 'Twas a simpler time.

I remember that well.   And there was a lot of "insider baseball" talk that implied they knew exactly what they were doing with the marketing and the public relations, etc.  (I remember "Disturbed" being a bench mark of sorts).  There was the showcase show in NY.   It was very positive, and very upbeat. 
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: bosk1 on October 31, 2017, 02:34:57 PM
James said something.  It was initially taken in a negative way (it was, you can't deny that; James even conceded that here:https://www.blabbermouth.net/news/dream-theater-singer-james-labrie-i-care-about-mike-portnoy-dearly/).

False.  Mike Portnoy took the Blabbermouth headline--not what James actually said--in a negative way.

Derek said something.   It was initially taken in a negative way.  It was later - albeit, not as explicitly - explained by him, via retweet, to be a tweak of THIS FORUM

False.  You are misstating what Derek said.

...and also (partly) put into context by Mike who said that he was friends with DT and that he spoke to them regularly.

Again, false.  You are misstating what Mike said.

Mike is otherwise silent on Derek's postings, and you claim, in so many words, that silence is consent.  Because he didn't explicitly disavow them, he must agree with those comments, so he's [fill in the word: childish; immature; a douche].

No, that isn't the issue at all.  Mike isn't immature because he is silent about Derek's immaturity.  Mike is immature because of his own words and actions.

I honestly don't know what more you want from me.

Some honesty would be nice, for a change.
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: JayOctavarium on October 31, 2017, 02:36:53 PM
I've also grown to enjoy Opus Maximus a bit.
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: Stadler on October 31, 2017, 02:41:40 PM
James said something.  It was initially taken in a negative way (it was, you can't deny that; James even conceded that here:https://www.blabbermouth.net/news/dream-theater-singer-james-labrie-i-care-about-mike-portnoy-dearly/).

False.  Mike Portnoy took the Blabbermouth headline--not what James actually said--in a negative way.

Derek said something.   It was initially taken in a negative way.  It was later - albeit, not as explicitly - explained by him, via retweet, to be a tweak of THIS FORUM

False.  You are misstating what Derek said.

...and also (partly) put into context by Mike who said that he was friends with DT and that he spoke to them regularly.

Again, false.  You are misstating what Mike said.

Mike is otherwise silent on Derek's postings, and you claim, in so many words, that silence is consent.  Because he didn't explicitly disavow them, he must agree with those comments, so he's [fill in the word: childish; immature; a douche].

No, that isn't the issue at all.  Mike isn't immature because he is silent about Derek's immaturity.  Mike is immature because of his own words and actions.

I honestly don't know what more you want from me.

Some honesty would be nice, for a change.

Wow, okay.  Not arguing with the head of the forum.   Agree to (respectfully but strenuously) disagree, especially about the "honesty" part. 
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: bosk1 on October 31, 2017, 02:43:17 PM
I've also grown to enjoy Opus Maximus a bit.

It's still not really doing it for me.  But I don't know whether that's because it just isn't cohesive, or because I typically don't get into instrumentals as much as songs with vocals so it takes me longer to appreciate them.
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: JayOctavarium on October 31, 2017, 02:45:25 PM
So I changed by vote.

After a couple more listens, without letting the drama affect it, I decided to bump it up to an 8/10.  Still not as high as one would expect from this lineup. But my original rating included my thoughts on the pre release promotion of the album.


I've also grown to enjoy Opus Maximus a bit.

It's still not really doing it for me.  But I don't know whether that's because it just isn't cohesive, or because I typically don't get into instrumentals as much as songs with vocals so it takes me longer to appreciate them.


I think it's because it reminds me slightly of Raw Dog and even Enigma Machine. I can't quite place it, but it makes me think of both of those. And I like Raw Dog.

Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: bosk1 on October 31, 2017, 02:46:46 PM
I never cared for Raw Dog either.  But Enigma Machine, on the other hand, is pretty cool.
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: The Walrus on October 31, 2017, 02:50:23 PM
Stadler. Bosk is right. That poor horse now has about three atoms left scattered across a small patch of dirt. Please, open your eyes, Nicholas Stadler.  :lol
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: Stadler on October 31, 2017, 02:51:52 PM
Stadler. Bosk is right. That poor horse now has about three atoms left scattered across a small patch of dirt. Please, open your eyes, Nicholas Stadler.  :lol

I respectfully disagree. 
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: Podaar on October 31, 2017, 02:54:14 PM
After about a dozen spins, I've actually lowered my rating to 6. In fact, I'm pretty sure I won't listen to it again.

I will say, I hope they stay together, gel, and have a successful tour. Then write an album where Thal, Sheehan and JSS get equal creative input with Sherinian...especially Thal. Maybe we'd get something really cool then.
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: Madman Shepherd on October 31, 2017, 02:55:42 PM
Because the intended target has decided not to stoop to Derek's level or even acknowledge it. Looks like it didn't pay off.

"Silence" means nothing but, well, "silence".   100 explanations for that, and only one is yours.   You're just presupposing what his emotional reaction is (coincidentally, in line with what YOU think it SHOULD be), and layering the actual response to it.   If we're going to do that - presuppose that DT is the target and that they should act as we would have them act, then I'm calling out James.    He wasted not a minute telling the world that one of his emotions following Mike's departure was "not sad" but he's not sticking up for his friend now?   Not a peep?  Not a hint?   Not a whisper?   Where's the chivalry?

I thought you wanted to drop this?  The "not sad" thing is not what you think it is.  The interviewers took pains to clarify that.  You have to hear it in context.  And even if it was a swipe at Mike (which it isn't), what does that have to do with this scenario?  Not sticking up for JP or JR?  So what?  He isn't sticking up for himself either.  I for one certainly don't think he should "stick up" for anyone, nor should the rest of them.  I don't think it means anything specifically, just that they're not engaging.

I did, I did.  Just when I thought I was out... they pull me back in.

And you repeat the same argument that has been debunked by close to a dozen people? James did not go out if his way to say he isn't sad about Mike. He went out if his way to clarify what he meant. The interviewers did too. They dropped it.

This is just bizarre you're so stuck on this and repeat a completely fictional account of something so widely documented that contradict what you repeatedly say.

Look.  I appreciate all the credit you give me for not being a complete delusional moron - my words - but for the 100th time: 

James said something.  It was initially taken in a negative way (it was, you can't deny that; James even conceded that here:https://www.blabbermouth.net/news/dream-theater-singer-james-labrie-i-care-about-mike-portnoy-dearly/).   It was later corrected by him and others.  I understand very well what he was ultimately trying to say, but that's not how it came out the first time.   Fair enough, you're putting your money on the corrected version, in a wider context, including input from others (the journalist).

Derek said something.   It was initially taken in a negative way.  It was later - albeit, not as explicitly - explained by him, via retweet, to be a tweak of THIS FORUM, and also (partly) put into context by Mike who said that he was friends with DT and that he spoke to them regularly.    Yet, you ignore that, dismiss it, say it's not relevant, it wasn't clear enough for you, and so stick to the initial comments because, well, "he said it!"  We had this conversation here, in this forum.   

Mike is otherwise silent on Derek's postings, and you claim, in so many words, that silence is consent.  Because he didn't explicitly disavow them, he must agree with those comments, so he's [fill in the word: childish; immature; a douche].  How do we know this?  Because you've told us.  No other reason whatsoever.   But when DT - the alleged recipients of the "attacks" - opt to remain silent, somehow silence is now complete rejection, the mature way of handing things, and not at all tacit acceptance of the comments themselves.  How do we know this?  Because you've told us.   No other reason whatsoever. 

I've said before; pick a horse.   Either it's the totality of the information or it's the statement.   Silence is either meaningful or it's not.  I don't really care about the answer, as it's all subjective opinion.   I've already said - almost as many times as I've talked about the above - that I largely AGREE with you.  I don't like Derek's "jokes".  I don't think they are funny.  I don't like music as competition.  I don't like that Mike shut down his forum in the wake of negative comments.  I haven't fan-boyed the release of SoA; quite the opposite.  I feel it's a huge missed opportunity, and indicative of the shortcomings of the "bang it out in a week"/"87 bands" mentality, which, while I'm grateful for in one sense, I'm not a huge fan of overall.    I honestly don't know what more you want from me.  I just think that some people - here in particular - are looking at this too much through their own lenses of what they want to see, and are not open to possible explanations that contradict their pet theory.   That's all.  I'm entitled to that opinion, even if you don't agree.

Wow.  Weird.  Bizarre.  In fact, the last part of your argument is so bizarre I don't know if I understand. 

Because I said Jordan showed class by not responding, I must therefore think Mike has shown class by not adding to what Derek has said in the band that Mike supposedly leads? 

Also, sounds like I actually like SoA more than you. 
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: Lethean on October 31, 2017, 03:03:48 PM

And you repeat the same argument that has been debunked by close to a dozen people? James did not go out if his way to say he isn't sad about Mike. He went out if his way to clarify what he meant. The interviewers did too. They dropped it.

This is just bizarre you're so stuck on this and repeat a completely fictional account of something so widely documented that contradict what you repeatedly say.

Look.  I appreciate all the credit you give me for not being a complete delusional moron - my words - but for the 100th time: 

James said something.  It was initially taken in a negative way (it was, you can't deny that; James even conceded that here:https://www.blabbermouth.net/news/dream-theater-singer-james-labrie-i-care-about-mike-portnoy-dearly/).   It was later corrected by him and others.  I understand very well what he was ultimately trying to say, but that's not how it came out the first time.   Fair enough, you're putting your money on the corrected version, in a wider context, including input from others (the journalist).

Derek said something.   It was initially taken in a negative way.  It was later - albeit, not as explicitly - explained by him, via retweet, to be a tweak of THIS FORUM, and also (partly) put into context by Mike who said that he was friends with DT and that he spoke to them regularly.    Yet, you ignore that, dismiss it, say it's not relevant, it wasn't clear enough for you, and so stick to the initial comments because, well, "he said it!"  We had this conversation here, in this forum.   

Mike is otherwise silent on Derek's postings, and you claim, in so many words, that silence is consent.  Because he didn't explicitly disavow them, he must agree with those comments, so he's [fill in the word: childish; immature; a douche].  How do we know this?  Because you've told us.  No other reason whatsoever.   But when DT - the alleged recipients of the "attacks" - opt to remain silent, somehow silence is now complete rejection, the mature way of handing things, and not at all tacit acceptance of the comments themselves.  How do we know this?  Because you've told us.   No other reason whatsoever. 

I've said before; pick a horse.   Either it's the totality of the information or it's the statement.   Silence is either meaningful or it's not.  I don't really care about the answer, as it's all subjective opinion.   I've already said - almost as many times as I've talked about the above - that I largely AGREE with you.  I don't like Derek's "jokes".  I don't think they are funny.  I don't like music as competition.  I don't like that Mike shut down his forum in the wake of negative comments.  I haven't fan-boyed the release of SoA; quite the opposite.  I feel it's a huge missed opportunity, and indicative of the shortcomings of the "bang it out in a week"/"87 bands" mentality, which, while I'm grateful for in one sense, I'm not a huge fan of overall.    I honestly don't know what more you want from me.  I just think that some people - here in particular - are looking at this too much through their own lenses of what they want to see, and are not open to possible explanations that contradict their pet theory.   That's all.  I'm entitled to that opinion, even if you don't agree.

In Stadler's defense, I don't think he's being dishonest.  (I also don't think you're a moron).  I do think, however, that you aren't seeing something here.

Bosk is correct that what James originally said wasn't even taken as a negative - it was the blabbermouth headline.  But even so - he did clarify, he did respond, he did make sure that people weren't left with that incorrect impression.  And of course you're going to take that data and the journalist's comments and incorporate them, though you shouldn't really have to; you (general you) should just listen to the original interview and clearly hear that he wasn't attacking Mike.  So in my opinion, actually not even my opinion at this point, all of the evidence is there - you can't just say that the "not sad" comment was James attacking Mike and use it as an example of JLB doing something wrong.

Derek's retweet, on the other hand, is not an explanation.  It just isn't.  It probably does mean that he agrees with the tweet - that yes, those comments are going to upset DTF (or whatever the wording was).  But that doesn't mean anything.  As evidence goes, as another data point goes, you can incorporate its existence, but it doesn't tell you anything.  It could mean "yeah, I agree, those comments are going to upset DTF, but I don't care, because I still meant what I said about Dream Theater."  Or "yeah, I agree, but I don't care, because even though I hold nothing against DT, I like pissing off DTF!"  And honestly, if it's the latter, how does that matter?  It's still rude behavior.  How is it OK it he's purposely just trying to rile up DT fans instead of DT themselves?  That doesn't make it any better.  Either way, what we don't know is that the retweet means, and only means "I've got no problem with DT, I'm not attacking them at all, I'm only trying to get to the people at DTF."  You say it means that, but no one knows it.  (And again, even if it did, that's not any better).

So yes, you (general) should take the totality of evidence under consideration, but the evidence in the JLB situation is clear, and there is no such clear evidence with the retweet.

Side notes -

Mike saying that he's friends with 3 of the guys and speaks with them regularly - did he really say that?  I'd like to see it.  Because I don't think he does speak with them regularly, and am more inclined to think they had a "let's be friends" chat but not that they are super close.  Either way - it's not proof that Derek's comments (and some of Mike's) are cool. 

The silence issue - silence doesn't prove that DT are offended by DS and taking the high road.  It it also doesn't prove that they're cool with everything and think it's just great.  Mike's silence doesn't prove that he agrees with everything DS says - I agree with you there.  However, at this point, he knows that people are upset by it.  He knows that *his own fans* are upset by it.  Even PMF on his forum, who is one of his biggest fans, was unhappy about the situation.  He knows this, and he still lets it continue.  It might not mean he agrees with him, but he's allowing the behavior, and it's rude.
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: Stadler on October 31, 2017, 03:17:27 PM
Wow.  Weird.  Bizarre.  In fact, the last part of your argument is so bizarre I don't know if I understand. 

Because I said Jordan showed class by not responding, I must therefore think Mike has shown class by not adding to what Derek has said in the band that Mike supposedly leads? 

Also, sounds like I actually like SoA more than you.

Okay, point of order:  I am not commenting on your argument with words like "bizarre".  It is was it is and you're entitled to it, as I am mine.   

My argument is:  We only know three things for an absolute fact:   Fact: Derek has made comments that could, possibly, but not unequivocally, refer to Jordan and/or Dream Theater.   Fact:  Jordan and DT have been silent on this matter. Fact: Mike has been largely silent on Derek's tweets as well.  Your opinion is that they are attacks on Jordan/DT, ignoring the retweet by Derek of a tweet by some guy name Paul on September 11th that strongly implies that the comments are not intended at Jordan/DT at all, but to poke at some members of this forum.    Your opinion is that the silence by Jordan/DT is classy and mature (don't disagree, by the way).  Your opinion is that Mike's silence isn't class or maturity (staying out of the fray; letting Derek bear the responsibility and consequences of his statements) but rather tacit approval of Derek's opinion, and therefore childish and immature (disagree; personally, I don't feel Mike has to explicitly disavow Derek's opinions in order to distance from them).   

All I'm doing is separating what we know for fact from what is opinion, and suggesting that there ARE possible other interpretations that don't agree with yours.    I'm sorry that's "bizarre" to you.         
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: Stadler on October 31, 2017, 03:31:45 PM

In Stadler's defense, I don't think he's being dishonest.  (I also don't think you're a moron).  I do think, however, that you aren't seeing something here.

Bosk is correct that what James originally said wasn't even taken as a negative - it was the blabbermouth headline.  But even so - he did clarify, he did respond, he did make sure that people weren't left with that incorrect impression.  And of course you're going to take that data and the journalist's comments and incorporate them, though you shouldn't really have to; you (general you) should just listen to the original interview and clearly hear that he wasn't attacking Mike.  So in my opinion, actually not even my opinion at this point, all of the evidence is there - you can't just say that the "not sad" comment was James attacking Mike and use it as an example of JLB doing something wrong.

Derek's retweet, on the other hand, is not an explanation.  It just isn't.  It probably does mean that he agrees with the tweet - that yes, those comments are going to upset DTF (or whatever the wording was).  But that doesn't mean anything.  As evidence goes, as another data point goes, you can incorporate its existence, but it doesn't tell you anything.  It could mean "yeah, I agree, those comments are going to upset DTF, but I don't care, because I still meant what I said about Dream Theater."  Or "yeah, I agree, but I don't care, because even though I hold nothing against DT, I like pissing off DTF!"  And honestly, if it's the latter, how does that matter?  It's still rude behavior.  How is it OK it he's purposely just trying to rile up DT fans instead of DT themselves?  That doesn't make it any better.  Either way, what we don't know is that the retweet means, and only means "I've got no problem with DT, I'm not attacking them at all, I'm only trying to get to the people at DTF."  You say it means that, but no one knows it.  (And again, even if it did, that's not any better).

So yes, you (general) should take the totality of evidence under consideration, but the evidence in the JLB situation is clear, and there is no such clear evidence with the retweet.

Side notes -

Mike saying that he's friends with 3 of the guys and speaks with them regularly - did he really say that?  I'd like to see it.  Because I don't think he does speak with them regularly, and am more inclined to think they had a "let's be friends" chat but not that they are super close.  Either way - it's not proof that Derek's comments (and some of Mike's) are cool. 

The silence issue - silence doesn't prove that DT are offended by DS and taking the high road.  It it also doesn't prove that they're cool with everything and think it's just great.  Mike's silence doesn't prove that he agrees with everything DS says - I agree with you there.  However, at this point, he knows that people are upset by it.  He knows that *his own fans* are upset by it.  Even PMF on his forum, who is one of his biggest fans, was unhappy about the situation.  He knows this, and he still lets it continue.  It might not mean he agrees with him, but he's allowing the behavior, and it's rude.

But surely you understand that I'm not saying ABSOLUTELY that I KNOW these things.  I'm positing them as possible alternative outcomes.   And those outcomes are being dismissed as "bizarre" and even dishonest.    But that doesn't make them any less likely, and one definition of "bias" is ignoring other possible outcomes in favor of the one you prefer.   Bosk and Madman Shepard may well be right ultimately.   Who knows?   In the last 24 hours someone has told me, from first hand information, that perhaps "friends with" and "in contact" may be an overstatement.  Fair enough.  If that changes things, I'm cool with that.   
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: Stadler on October 31, 2017, 03:36:46 PM
Also, sounds like I actually like SoA more than you.

Honestly - and you can probably call THIS "bizarre", since even I'll say that - I'm sort of scared to listen to it again, because I feel like I'm going to like it a lot less the second time around, when it doesn't have the "fresh" factor.   The lingering memory from listening to it is just so... bland and one-note.  Well-played, no doubt, but everything is mid-range, and almost trying too hard to be bad ass.   With music, I'm kind of more into the "you be you" ethic.   

I get that music is all about mood, but let me ask you this:  if you have BCC, or Scene's From A Memory, are you really going to reach for this over that?   
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: nobloodyname on October 31, 2017, 03:39:51 PM
[...]a tweet by some guy name Paul on September 11th         

:lol
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: rumborak on October 31, 2017, 03:39:56 PM
So, what's the deal? Did the album chart? Will there be a tour? Do I live in a cave or is this project dead on arrival?

They will definitely tour, so much is certain. But, the question is, how many concerts, and how big are the venues. My best guess is, California and the Northeastern US, in the 500-ish venues.
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: Stadler on October 31, 2017, 03:42:54 PM
So, what's the deal? Did the album chart? Will there be a tour? Do I live in a cave or is this project dead on arrival?

They will definitely tour, so much is certain. But, the question is, how many concerts, and how big are the venues. My best guess is, California and the Northeastern US, in the 500-ish venues.

I fully expect to see them at the Ridgefield Playhouse, capacity 500.  I've heard Mike say it's an excellent place to play, and I've seen him there twice now in the last year and a half or so.   
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: rumborak on October 31, 2017, 03:44:11 PM
Yeah, I expect to see them play in Worcester, MA as well.  If the tour is going well at the Palladium, if it's bad at the Lucky Dog. And despite the fact that the album is a solid "meh" for me, there's a good chance of seeing them. I think it will be a lot of fun live.
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: The Walrus on October 31, 2017, 03:46:27 PM
When you're on DTF trying to find the hidden meaning of 7 year old statements

(https://s1.postimg.org/68or4gpi5r/630.png)
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: ariich on October 31, 2017, 03:48:05 PM
Stadler: quit it.

Everyone baiting Stadler: quit it.

Seriously, it's ruining this thread.
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: Madman Shepherd on October 31, 2017, 03:52:54 PM
Wow.  Weird.  Bizarre.  In fact, the last part of your argument is so bizarre I don't know if I understand. 

Because I said Jordan showed class by not responding, I must therefore think Mike has shown class by not adding to what Derek has said in the band that Mike supposedly leads? 

Also, sounds like I actually like SoA more than you.

Okay, point of order:  I am not commenting on your argument with words like "bizarre".  It is was it is and you're entitled to it, as I am mine.   

My argument is:  We only know three things for an absolute fact:   Fact: Derek has made comments that could, possibly, but not unequivocally, refer to Jordan and/or Dream Theater.   Fact:  Jordan and DT have been silent on this matter. Fact: Mike has been largely silent on Derek's tweets as well.  Your opinion is that they are attacks on Jordan/DT, ignoring the retweet by Derek of a tweet by some guy name Paul on September 11th that strongly implies that the comments are not intended at Jordan/DT at all, but to poke at some members of this forum.    Your opinion is that the silence by Jordan/DT is classy and mature (don't disagree, by the way).  Your opinion is that Mike's silence isn't class or maturity (staying out of the fray; letting Derek bear the responsibility and consequences of his statements) but rather tacit approval of Derek's opinion, and therefore childish and immature (disagree; personally, I don't feel Mike has to explicitly disavow Derek's opinions in order to distance from them).   

All I'm doing is separating what we know for fact from what is opinion, and suggesting that there ARE possible other interpretations that don't agree with yours.    I'm sorry that's "bizarre" to you.         

If I say anything bizarre then by all means call it bizarre. As it stands you thinks Derek's tweets and constant references to breathy and ass puckering vocals, iPad, apps, and cheese wiz isn't directed at a band known for those things that each of them have a tenuous connection to but rather this forum?

That is bizarre.

Also, sounds like I actually like SoA more than you.

Honestly - and you can probably call THIS "bizarre", since even I'll say that - I'm sort of scared to listen to it again, because I feel like I'm going to like it a lot less the second time around, when it doesn't have the "fresh" factor.   The lingering memory from listening to it is just so... bland and one-note.  Well-played, no doubt, but everything is mid-range, and almost trying too hard to be bad ass.   With music, I'm kind of more into the "you be you" ethic.   

I get that music is all about mood, but let me ask you this:  if you have BCC, or Scene's From A Memory, are you really going to reach for this over that?   

Well, no.  Because I don't own SoA. Would I say that it's better than those two? Nah. I mean, I rated it a five but there's still one or two songs I haven't heard and I've only heard it on crappy laptop speakers. I'm kind of expecting to go back and rate it a 6.5 or 7 after I get a really good chance to listen to it.  This is definitely geared more to the things I like about DT.
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: bosk1 on October 31, 2017, 04:07:34 PM
And those outcomes are being dismissed as "bizarre" and even dishonest.    But that doesn't make them any less likely, and one definition of "bias" is ignoring other possible outcomes in favor of the one you prefer.   Bosk and Madman Shepard may well be right ultimately.   Who knows?

Well, no, you are conflating two different things.  What is dishonest is mischaracterizing facts that are established.  For example, we know what James said.  We know what the Blabbermouth headline said.  We know that Mike mistakenly attributed one for the other.  We know what Derek has said.  But you have said that they said something quite different.  That is dishonest.  You can argue about what all of that may mean to your heart's content.  I honestly don't care what anyone's interpretation of those facts happens to be.  But you don't get to say that things are true when we know for certain that they are not true, and vice versa. 

Similarly, you don't get to deliberately mischaracterize other people's arguments when they have said time and again what they are actually saying, just so you can knock down a strawman.  When you know (or should know because they have repeated and clarified several times) that they are arguing A, and you insist that they are arguing B, and then show how deftly you can knock down argument B, that is not honest. 

As ariich said, quit doing that.

I'm sort of scared to listen to it again, because I feel like I'm going to like it a lot less the second time around, when it doesn't have the "fresh" factor.   The lingering memory from listening to it is just so... bland and one-note.  Well-played, no doubt, but everything is mid-range, and almost trying too hard to be bad ass.   With music, I'm kind of more into the "you be you" ethic.   

I get that music is all about mood, but let me ask you this:  if you have BCC, or Scene's From A Memory, are you really going to reach for this over that?   

I get where you are coming from on the album.  But it's a bummer you feel that way.  I think there's a lot to like.  Is it better than SFAM?  No way.  Will I really reach for this over SFAM?  Sometimes, yeah.  Depends what I am in the mood for.  I think this is a great collection of tunes, for the most part.  Maybe I'll grow tired of it and no longer think that at some point.  But for now, I'm digging it.
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: noxon on October 31, 2017, 04:35:12 PM
This is probably the most telling for my part: After the release of Sons of Apollo, I've not listened once. Not because it's bad, but it's just not memorable enough for me. If you pressed me to sing a song right now, i think the only part I would be able to sing is the chorus to Alive...

As for who thinks what about who in the DT sphere - when you ASSuME... etc etc. Man, do I struggle. I'm constantly biting my tongue here...
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: bosk1 on October 31, 2017, 04:40:04 PM
If you pressed me to sing a song right now, i think the only part I would be able to sing is the chorus to Alive...

I love that part!  :D

Alive, alive, rising up I am alive
I am the dark, I am the light
Alive, alive, rising up I am alive
Within you I'm alive


Oh, wait...
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: Lethean on October 31, 2017, 05:31:08 PM
If you pressed me to sing a song right now, i think the only part I would be able to sing is the chorus to Alive...

I love that part!  :D

Alive, alive, rising up I am alive
I am the dark, I am the light
Alive, alive, rising up I am alive
Within you I'm alive


Oh, wait...

I like that too. :)  Not the greatest lyrics of all time, but it kinda works.
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: bill1971 on October 31, 2017, 06:12:12 PM
This is probably the most telling for my part: After the release of Sons of Apollo, I've not listened once. Not because it's bad, but it's just not memorable enough for me. If you pressed me to sing a song right now, i think the only part I would be able to sing is the chorus to Alive...

As for who thinks what about who in the DT sphere - when you ASSuME... etc etc. Man, do I struggle. I'm constantly biting my tongue here...

Me too, except Labyrinth but I am getting over that song as well. It's not bad, just nothing special that I care to go back to. I think MP sort of got a false impression when he did the 12 Step live because of the way the fans were into it not realizing that he was playing well established and well known songs written with a completely different band than he has now. Shade by Living Colour on the other hand I have heard at least a dozen times.
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: ReaperKK on October 31, 2017, 09:17:17 PM
It's also possible MP is over saturating the market with....himself. When you are part of multiple releases every year, eventually people just stop being as excited.

That’s what I was thinking. I still think this is MPs best project post DT but portnoy alone doesn’t bring much of anything to table, his drumming sounds exactly like it does on all his other projects.

There is always some release coming out with his name on it.
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: portnoy311 on October 31, 2017, 09:29:23 PM
It's also possible MP is over saturating the market with....himself. When you are part of multiple releases every year, eventually people just stop being as excited.

That’s what I was thinking. I still think this is MPs best project post DT but portnoy alone doesn’t bring much of anything to table, his drumming sounds exactly like it does on all his other projects.

There is always some release coming out with his name on it.

His quote about himself being a "musical chameleon" is really cringey considering how static his playing is between these different projects. It just goes back to the whole notion that he and his projects should spend some time actually cultivating the music and songs. Him just coming out with MP drumming on every song of every project isn't being a chameleon. It's the opposite actually.
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: Adami on October 31, 2017, 09:33:46 PM
Yea, I feel like if after DT all MP did was say....Flying Colors or something and then did this, even with all the negativity and the mediocre reception, it would have been a much bigger seller. But since leaving DT 7 years ago, he's released...

A live transatlantic album.
Adrenaline Mob
A Neal Morse album
Another live Transatlantic album
A Beatles tribute album
A Flying Colors album
Another Neal Morse Album
An Adrenaline Mob cover album
A Winery Dogs album
A live PSMS album
A live Flying Colors album
A Transatlantic album
A Bigelf album
Another Flying Colors album
Another live Transatlantic album
Another Neal Morse album
A Metal Allegiance album
Another Winery Dogs album
Another live Flying Colors album
Another Neal Morse album

....and SoA.

That's, on average, 3 albums a year. Like I said, at some point it stops being exciting.
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: noxon on November 01, 2017, 03:11:20 AM
Saturation is a generic problem to the music business right now anyhow. There's so much more music available now due to the ease of distribution, that there is a huge difficulty of getting any traction. And since the income for any album release not in the top 10 of the charts for several weeks is most likely not even recouperating the cost of production, bands have to tour much more nowadays than they ever did before, with new ways to source income (like those VIP packages and extensive merchandise "special items". So while a single artist on himself might not saturate the market, the amount of concerts and releases OVERALL is just saturating the market. So if you're "niche", as most of the projects MP is involved in is, you're not gonna get as much attention anymore as there's so much other stuff clamoring for that same attention. I remember MP complaining that people weren't responding to TSOAD in a way that reflected on sales and concert tickets... I think he should be glad for any attention at this point because his fanbase isn't getting younger... Which is also why I'm surprised that from day ONE his way of dealing with SOA stuff has been alienating and pissing off potential fans. At this point he should work to get every fan on board he can.
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: mikeyd23 on November 01, 2017, 07:19:06 AM
Saturation is a generic problem to the music business right now anyhow. There's so much more music available now due to the ease of distribution, that there is a huge difficulty of getting any traction. And since the income for any album release not in the top 10 of the charts for several weeks is most likely not even recouperating the cost of production, bands have to tour much more nowadays than they ever did before, with new ways to source income (like those VIP packages and extensive merchandise "special items". So while a single artist on himself might not saturate the market, the amount of concerts and releases OVERALL is just saturating the market. So if you're "niche", as most of the projects MP is involved in is, you're not gonna get as much attention anymore as there's so much other stuff clamoring for that same attention. I remember MP complaining that people weren't responding to TSOAD in a way that reflected on sales and concert tickets... I think he should be glad for any attention at this point because his fanbase isn't getting younger... Which is also why I'm surprised that from day ONE his way of dealing with SOA stuff has been alienating and pissing off potential fans. At this point he should work to get every fan on board he can.

I totally agree on all counts, which is why I'm still surprised they chose to basically piss off a portion of the DT fan base while doing promo for this record.
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: goo-goo on November 01, 2017, 07:47:10 AM
Yea, I feel like if after DT all MP did was say....Flying Colors or something and then did this, even with all the negativity and the mediocre reception, it would have been a much bigger seller. But since leaving DT 7 years ago, he's released...

A live transatlantic album.
Adrenaline Mob
A Neal Morse album
Another live Transatlantic album
A Beatles tribute album
A Flying Colors album
Another Neal Morse Album
An Adrenaline Mob cover album
A Winery Dogs album
A live PSMS album
A live Flying Colors album
A Transatlantic album
A Bigelf album
Another Flying Colors album
Another live Transatlantic album
Another Neal Morse album
A Metal Allegiance album
Another Winery Dogs album
Another live Flying Colors album
Another Neal Morse album

....and SoA.

That's, on average, 3 albums a year. Like I said, at some point it stops being exciting.

And to add to your point, MP is not much creating new drum parts anymore. MP has sounded very stale as far as his drumming fills, very predictable and sometimes boring I hate to say. Even his song arrangements are getting predictable.
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: mikeyd23 on November 01, 2017, 07:51:39 AM
Yea, I feel like if after DT all MP did was say....Flying Colors or something and then did this, even with all the negativity and the mediocre reception, it would have been a much bigger seller. But since leaving DT 7 years ago, he's released...

A live transatlantic album.
Adrenaline Mob
A Neal Morse album
Another live Transatlantic album
A Beatles tribute album
A Flying Colors album
Another Neal Morse Album
An Adrenaline Mob cover album
A Winery Dogs album
A live PSMS album
A live Flying Colors album
A Transatlantic album
A Bigelf album
Another Flying Colors album
Another live Transatlantic album
Another Neal Morse album
A Metal Allegiance album
Another Winery Dogs album
Another live Flying Colors album
Another Neal Morse album

....and SoA.

That's, on average, 3 albums a year. Like I said, at some point it stops being exciting.

And to add to your point, MP is not much creating new drum parts anymore. MP has sounded very stale as far as his drumming fills, very predictable and sometimes boring I hate to say. Even his song arrangements are getting predictable.

Unfortunately, it was like that before he left DT. The last album I can point to that I felt MP was really pushing the limits of what he had previously done and coming up with incredible, interesting parts is SDOIT. I've continued to enjoy his drumming to various degrees since then, but that's different.
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: bill1971 on November 01, 2017, 09:03:56 AM
I was watching a Youtube interview with Geddy Lee yesterday and he had mentioned that when writing music he liked to step away from it for a few weeks then come back with fresh ears. He said he became better at not being afraid to throw out songs or parts of songs that didn't work. I am paraphrasing. That lead me to think of the SOA album and recently most of MP's projects or drum parts. If he spent more tie with the songs they could develop and grow. Even MP's comment on how that one part of the song took him a long time, only to reveal that 30 minutes was a long time for him. He kind of reminds me of an excited kid who rushes through his homework or a test just to get it over with. I get the sense that he doesn't enjoy the process and is just looking to add another album or band to his "list". Anyhow I don;t know him of course but that is the impression I get. While Geddy is more into refining and getting the best take possible, MP seems to just want to get it over to get on to the next band.
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: gmillerdrake on November 01, 2017, 09:22:01 AM
most of MP's projects or drum parts. If he spent more tie with the songs they could develop and grow. Even MP's comment on how that one part of the song took him a long time, only to reveal that 30 minutes was a long time for him. He kind of reminds me of an excited kid who rushes through his homework or a test just to get it over with.

which is why the majority of his drum patterns/fills/beats etc are the same old same old. However, I'm fine with his drum sound/participation in the Neal Morse albums and TA because Neal does a great job of crafting those songs to where even the same ol' output from MP sounds great in it. 'The Similitude of a Dream' being a perfect example of that. Nothing groundbreaking or 'new' from MP's drumming....familiar fills and style but the songs are compelling IMO due to Neals dedication to arranging them....on top of the fact that the rest of the band members are incredible players!

It's clear from MP's admission that he does not practice and how quickly he throws together his parts he's not very interesting in expanding his capabilities....unlike MM who is constantly trying to improve and it shows. 
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: Stadler on November 01, 2017, 09:29:22 AM
I've said this before:   When DT were coming up - and there weren't side bands and multiple projects - the beauty of the best Dream Theater was that it was a mix.  There was a ton of Rush and Maiden, a smattering of Metallica, a pinch of Journey, maybe a soupcon of U2 and Zeppelin... and there were no rules.   The music went where the music went.   

Then, around the time of say, Train of Thought, we started to get more refined influences.  We had the "Metal" record, and love it or not, that album IS a shade one-note.   The band members had side projects to let off the creative steam of the other influences (LTE is the most obvious).   

Once Mike left, you had the classic prog band (TA), you had the neo-prog band (NM), you had the pop band (FC), you had the metal band (AMob) and it all fit into nice categories.  Some - primarily the ones with NM - you had a strong alpha figure there to help influence the work, but in the Amob and SoA you have Mike as the dominant guy, and I feel like he's stuck in a genre mode.    I think SoA would have benefited from a little more varied influence.   Throw some Rush in there.   Let JSS sing a little Steve Perry on top.    Maybe Derek can rip off a little Elton John reference in there somewhere.   

It's not quite full on caricature yet, because these guys are so good at what they do, but it's getting close.  Metal growls/screams?  CHECK!    Growly Alter Bridge metal riffage?  CHECK!   Jon Lord/neo-classical metal key solo?  CHECK!   Double bass drum insanity?  CHECK!
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: bosk1 on November 01, 2017, 09:31:54 AM
I'll say for the Xth time that I really don't get the criticism of Mike's drumming.  I just don't comprehend it.  I mean, I get that it is more or less the same as what we've heard.  But I mean I don't get it as a criticism.  He's a drummer.  The vast majority of drummers don't change or evolve their style much over time.  And even when they do add some new things, due to the nature of the instrument, it often times isn't going to sound "new" even in those circumstances.  Maybe I'm missing something, but it just seems to me that you either like Mike's drumming or you don't.  And if you did and you've lost interest over time, then that's really not on him, and it just is what it is.
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: Grappler on November 01, 2017, 09:35:01 AM
I'll say for the Xth time that I really don't get the criticism of Mike's drumming.  I just don't comprehend it.  I mean, I get that it is more or less the same as what we've heard.  But I mean I don't get it as a criticism.  He's a drummer.  The vast majority of drummers don't change or evolve their style much over time.  And even when they do add some new things, due to the nature of the instrument, it often times isn't going to sound "new" even in those circumstances.  Maybe I'm missing something, but it just seems to me that you either like Mike's drumming or you don't.  And if you did and you've lost interest over time, then that's really not on him, and it just is what it is.

I believe that Mike himself has also said in some interviews that there's not much else left for him to prove.  He's won a zillion drummer awards.  He can just be a drummer and not have to be a drummer extraordinaire - I have no expectations from him.  He's always been a great drummer in my eyes, and I hear some things on the SOA disc that remind me how killer he is, even if he's not going off the rails with crazy drumming.
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: Stadler on November 01, 2017, 09:42:18 AM
For the record, I'm talking about the MUSIC as a whole, not his drumming.  I just saw the TSOAD show and the Shattered Fortress show, and was duly impressed.  He's still one of the three guys that I would go see live just to watch them drum (Collins and Peart are the others). 
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: bosk1 on November 01, 2017, 09:45:17 AM
Oh, I know.  Your post made sense.  Mine was in response to the two before yours (and others that have said the same thing).  It's just that you posted yours while I was typing, so mine just happened to fall after yours in the thread.
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: The Walrus on November 01, 2017, 09:49:45 AM
I think his drumming on Winery Dogs' Hot Streak was the best he's done in over a decade, since Octavarium. It is, for the most part, restrained, and minimal. Listen to 'Fire' for that simple but beautiful drumming. The impressive little stick fill in the title track and that tricky little rhythm that's interesting but doesn't bash you over the head with 'look at me, I'm playing prog drumming!' style. It serves the music above anything else, even moreso than in Flying Colors.

Sons of Apollo? I'd say his drumming is right on par with where he left off with Black Clouds - that is to say, not very impressive, it's there, and it's predictable. Old winery dog needs to learn some new tricks, in other words, practice and learn something new. Especially if you're gonna release several albums a year, or release a new prog metal album that 'transcends genres' (please, get over yourselves, it's prog metal and that's it).

There's a big difference between fanboyism and fandom and Mike seems to want fanboyism. That simply is not healthy if you're going to be an artist and it's one reason I stopped focusing on music as my #1 thing in life, because I realized I just can't handle thinking about people criticizing my music when I release it publicly, so I've only ever shown my music to people on an individual basis, and I prefer it that way. I would go absolutely mad if I was an artist with a page and felt like policing the comments and telling off people with sometimes stinging criticism every day.
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: mikeyd23 on November 01, 2017, 09:51:14 AM
Oh, I know.  Your post made sense.  Mine was in response to the two before yours (and others that have said the same thing).  It's just that you posted yours while I was typing, so mine just happened to fall after yours in the thread.

It's hard to explain, but for me there are two separate things (1) enjoying MP's drumming and (2) finding his drumming to be innovative, fresh, forward-progressing.

Generally speaking I enjoy MP's drumming. I just don't think he's been doing number two for a long time, that's all. Part of it might be what Stads touched on, the fact that after SDOIT, MP found himself (by his choice or others) playing on records that were arguably more "defined" - a metal record, a classic prog record, etc... Maybe the diversity of the music on an album like SDOIT made or enabled Mike to be more innovative and fresh.
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: bosk1 on November 01, 2017, 09:56:08 AM
Oh, I know.  Your post made sense.  Mine was in response to the two before yours (and others that have said the same thing).  It's just that you posted yours while I was typing, so mine just happened to fall after yours in the thread.

It's hard to explain, but for me there are two separate things (1) enjoying MP's drumming and (2) finding his drumming to be innovative, fresh, forward-progressing.

Generally speaking I enjoy MP's drumming. I just don't think he's been doing number two for a long time, that's all. Part of it might be what Stads touched on, the fact that after SDOIT, MP found himself (by his choice or others) playing on records that were arguably more "defined" - a metal record, a classic prog record, etc... Maybe the diversity of the music on an album like SDOIT made or enabled Mike to be more innovative and fresh.

What you are saying makes sense.  To reframe what I am saying does NOT make sense to me is this:  I understand intellectually what #2 means.  But I cannot conceptualize why #2 is a thing people can or should realistically expect from a drummer--ANY drummer--who has been playing this long.  Again, it generally just doesn't happen. 
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: mikeyd23 on November 01, 2017, 10:02:20 AM
What you are saying makes sense.  To reframe what I am saying does NOT make sense to me is this:  I understand intellectually what #2 means.  But I cannot conceptualize why #2 is a thing people can or should realistically expect from a drummer--ANY drummer--who has been playing this long.  Again, it generally just doesn't happen.

I'm tracking with you. I think with drums, this typically is hard, especially drummers with long careers. That said - I think guys like Mike Mangini and Virgil Donati are examples of guys who continue to work on their craft, practice new techniques, and push themselves physically and mentally. That shines through in their playing in small ways sometimes, but it does show.
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: bill1971 on November 01, 2017, 10:03:31 AM
Oh, I know.  Your post made sense.  Mine was in response to the two before yours (and others that have said the same thing).  It's just that you posted yours while I was typing, so mine just happened to fall after yours in the thread.

It's hard to explain, but for me there are two separate things (1) enjoying MP's drumming and (2) finding his drumming to be innovative, fresh, forward-progressing.

Generally speaking I enjoy MP's drumming. I just don't think he's been doing number two for a long time, that's all. Part of it might be what Stads touched on, the fact that after SDOIT, MP found himself (by his choice or others) playing on records that were arguably more "defined" - a metal record, a classic prog record, etc... Maybe the diversity of the music on an album like SDOIT made or enabled Mike to be more innovative and fresh.

What you are saying makes sense.  To reframe what I am saying does NOT make sense to me is this:  I understand intellectually what #2 means.  But I cannot conceptualize why #2 is a thing people can or should realistically expect from a drummer--ANY drummer--who has been playing this long.  Again, it generally just doesn't happen.

Neil Peart has been playing far longer than MP and he always grew as a drummer and had unique and interesting drum parts. Perhaps it's a creativity  rather than skill issue. MP is obviously skilled but his creativity is just not there anymore. Just listen to Neil's drum solos vs MP's. Neil is well crafted and is a musical journey but MP's were very boring. I thought so going way back when I was high on the MP band wagon.
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: MoraWintersoul on November 01, 2017, 10:57:50 AM
My opinion of the album (that it's some interesting sections on top of beige metal with beige lyrics) is doubtlessly influenced by the circumstances of its release. Those circumstances aren't Derek repeating an unfunny joke a million times because he thinks he's struck a nerve, or the bravado, or how it's not on trend and how their promo pics are lame or any other theory. I am partial to the saturation theory myself.

Let's face it, Mike has taken his sweet ass time to come out with a permanent prog metal project, and in the mean time he has played prog and metal and rock and played with everyone who is everyone. Every one of those albums was THE BEST HE'S EVER DONE and THE MOST FUN HE'S HAD with THE BEST LINEUP. Now that he's announcing that this is definitely the thing and the best... it's not. It's not the best prog he's done since DT, it's not the first time he worked with DS or BS. Soto is an extremely competent singer, but he's probably the least best (lol) singer MP has worked with since 1992. It's not the most time he's taken to write and record and polish, and probably not the most passionate he's been - and all of that shows in the material. And the promo cycle just pointed all of that out and reminded me of it every time I heard a new song.

Yes, I might be a moron for expecting more than just a project but MP always used to speak some measure of truth alongside the hyping up he does. He was always the one to tell us what aspects of DT albums he would have done differently, or which stuff he doesn't like. Ever since he left everything has been the best ever and it's done the opposite of hyping me up. It's almost like there's a marriage analogy hidden in here about a guy who dates a string of amaaaazing GFs to rebound from his ex wife and now that he finds another steady GF... heh. :P
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: Madman Shepherd on November 01, 2017, 11:28:38 AM
I'll say for the Xth time that I really don't get the criticism of Mike's drumming.  I just don't comprehend it.  I mean, I get that it is more or less the same as what we've heard.  But I mean I don't get it as a criticism.  He's a drummer.  The vast majority of drummers don't change or evolve their style much over time.  And even when they do add some new things, due to the nature of the instrument, it often times isn't going to sound "new" even in those circumstances.  Maybe I'm missing something, but it just seems to me that you either like Mike's drumming or you don't.  And if you did and you've lost interest over time, then that's really not on him, and it just is what it is.

Gotta agree with Bosk to an extent. A while back I made the same observation with Derek's keyboard sound. If you're a guitar player you seem to get a pass because guitars are sometimes supposed to sound quiet and sometimes loud and distorted. With Derek he relies on a lot of the same sounds which is more or less what guitarists do but people are more critical of Derek because they think he's supposed to have a million more sounds.

With drummers there's only so much you can do. Mike has already done most of it which is way more than a lot of drummers.

On that same token, when he repeats similar unique patterns I'm tempted to call him out for desperately trying to recapture the past because that's the same decency he afforded dream theater.  As it stands, in one of the SoA songs he uses a pattern very close to what he uses in John Arch's song Relentless. It happens to be my favorite portnoy performance ever so I'm actually ok with it. But like I said, many people here are only being as hard on mike as he has been on other people in the past so in a way he's earned that karma. He doesn't help himself any more by bragging about how he doesn't care about music theory and practicing.

Then again, my favorite band of all time is Black Sabbath so I don't mind repetition. If it sounds good, It's good.
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: eric42434224 on November 01, 2017, 12:17:50 PM
It's a fair criticism of MP.  He should be innovating sounds, styles, techniques on every release.  Sounding the same every time is not acceptable at this level of Prog.  Look at the threads lambasting John Myung for the same sound every album.....oh wait.

Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: theshatteredfortress on November 01, 2017, 12:23:20 PM
OK, I will talk about the actual album.  I'm aware of the promos & interviews etc.......but I just purchased the album through iTunes and I'd like to share my thoughts so far. 

With this reply, I'd like to focus on the music rather than the personality of this guy or that guy or the things that he said or did etc...... 

First of all I will say that I REALLY LIKE the album so far.  That might change over the course of the next days.  Here are the songs I've heard so far:

God Of The Sun: I absolutely like this one because it is a song that is unpredictable (9/10 as of now).

Coming Home: I don't really like this one because the tempo slows down throughout the song (5/10 as of now).

Signs Of The Times: this one also have the «problem» of slowing down at the end of the song.........BUT from the middle of the song that's where the Prog Element shows itself and the song becomes really big (9/10 as of now).

Labyrinth: another long song that seems a lot shorter than it is which is a good sign in my book (8/10 as of now).

Alive: this one is a good one I think because it shows a more mellow side to the band which I liked on the first listen (7/10 as of now).

So that's it for the moment.  I will vote later on when I'll have listened to the whole album at least a few times.

So far my impression is that it's the next logical step from Black Clouds & Silver Linings, kind of like a futuristic Dream Theater.

Tx
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: KevShmev on November 01, 2017, 12:27:15 PM
This is probably the most telling for my part: After the release of Sons of Apollo, I've not listened once. Not because it's bad, but it's just not memorable enough for me. If you pressed me to sing a song right now, i think the only part I would be able to sing is the chorus to Alive...


That is always a telling point for me as well: if I like something a lot, I listen to it a lot.

Granted, I do not own this CD, and have no urge to seek out the mp3s "elsewhere," so YT is the only place I can hear it, but I have no urge to revisit any of the songs that are on YT (which is most of them). 
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: mikeyd23 on November 01, 2017, 12:44:07 PM
It's a fair criticism of MP.  He should be innovating sounds, styles, techniques on every release.  Sounding the same every time is not acceptable at this level of Prog.  Look at the threads lambasting John Myung for the same sound every album.....oh wait.

Actually, for the last few DT releases, we have had quite a bit of discussion around JMX's tendency to mirror JP's guitar parts and not really shape his own unique lines. In comparison to the early DT albums where he was far more creative in terms of establishing memorable bass lines that stood on their own, separate of the heavy guitar tracks.
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: Stadler on November 01, 2017, 12:46:15 PM
It's a fair criticism of MP.  He should be innovating sounds, styles, techniques on every release.  Sounding the same every time is not acceptable at this level of Prog.  Look at the threads lambasting John Myung for the same sound every album.....oh wait.

Actually, for the last few DT releases, we have had quite a bit of discussion around JMX's tendency to mirror JP's guitar parts and not really shape his own unique lines. In comparison to the early DT albums where he was far more creative in terms of establishing memorable bass lines that stood on their own, separate of the heavy guitar tracks.

To the extent you can even hear him.   As a general rule, he's not usually mixed like Steve Harris, Chris Squire or Geddy Lee. 
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: mikeyd23 on November 01, 2017, 12:47:57 PM
It's a fair criticism of MP.  He should be innovating sounds, styles, techniques on every release.  Sounding the same every time is not acceptable at this level of Prog.  Look at the threads lambasting John Myung for the same sound every album.....oh wait.

Actually, for the last few DT releases, we have had quite a bit of discussion around JMX's tendency to mirror JP's guitar parts and not really shape his own unique lines. In comparison to the early DT albums where he was far more creative in terms of establishing memorable bass lines that stood on their own, separate of the heavy guitar tracks.

To the extent you can even hear him.   As a general rule, he's not usually mixed like Steve Harris, Chris Squire or Geddy Lee.

True and that varies from record to record depending on the production, but it also doesn't help that he has had a tendency to match JP's rhythm guitar either.

I was simply pointing out that it's a comparable talking point and it's definitely been discussed.
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: Skeever on November 01, 2017, 01:30:07 PM
Still very curious - how did the album sell?
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: eric42434224 on November 01, 2017, 02:29:16 PM
It's a fair criticism of MP.  He should be innovating sounds, styles, techniques on every release.  Sounding the same every time is not acceptable at this level of Prog.  Look at the threads lambasting John Myung for the same sound every album.....oh wait.

Actually, for the last few DT releases, we have had quite a bit of discussion around JMX's tendency to mirror JP's guitar parts and not really shape his own unique lines. In comparison to the early DT albums where he was far more creative in terms of establishing memorable bass lines that stood on their own, separate of the heavy guitar tracks.

To the extent you can even hear him.   As a general rule, he's not usually mixed like Steve Harris, Chris Squire or Geddy Lee.

True and that varies from record to record depending on the production, but it also doesn't help that he has had a tendency to match JP's rhythm guitar either.

I was simply pointing out that it's a comparable talking point and it's definitely been discussed.

I was being facetious, so I really didn't know about discussions regarding Myung.  But I can't think they were as often or harsh as is done with Portnoy.  But when I thought about it, some of that might be Mikes responsibility.  From the things he has said to the sheer number of albums he puts out, certainly might put him in the crosshairs more.  If you have less than positive sound bites and interviews out there, along with the constant barrage of new music, I can see fans getting  fatigued....and it might be very fair for said fan to ask for more diversity in his playing.
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: RodrigoAltaf on November 01, 2017, 03:12:34 PM
I too miss Myung's more creative basslines, especially like the ones he did on WDADU...but it also seems like the production hurts his sound like hell. Hear how beautiful he can sound, even when doubling the guitar parts, if the production/mixing favours him:

https://youtu.be/rGb7CFlmJ7E
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: erwinrafael on November 01, 2017, 05:11:07 PM
I'll say for the Xth time that I really don't get the criticism of Mike's drumming.  I just don't comprehend it.  I mean, I get that it is more or less the same as what we've heard.  But I mean I don't get it as a criticism.  He's a drummer.  The vast majority of drummers don't change or evolve their style much over time.  And even when they do add some new things, due to the nature of the instrument, it often times isn't going to sound "new" even in those circumstances.  Maybe I'm missing something, but it just seems to me that you either like Mike's drumming or you don't.  And if you did and you've lost interest over time, then that's really not on him, and it just is what it is.

Think about it this way. Compare the following works of MP that are several years apart:

Train of Thought
BC&SL
Psychotic Symphony

You really won't hear much of a difference in the drumming in these albums. I would contend that almost all of MP's techniques in these albums, you would pretty much hear as variations of The Glass Prison and Blind Faith. And even for those two songs, you could already trace the style in Peruvian Skies and Trial of Tears.

Now let's compare for example with Mangini. Compare Elements of Persuasion and ADTOE. The snare and bass technique plus the lefty to righty shifts are retained but the difference in the orchestration is substantial. ADTOE is really MM's first time to showcase how he can support so many instruments at once.

But it doesn't stop there. Compare ADTOE with DT12. The difference again is susbstantial. You now hear for the first time those drum fills that use almost the whole kit. Then there are new polyrhythm combinations, most prominent in IT and Enigma Machine. And most important new technique is MM using two hi-hats or two rides at the same time, which are most prominent in TLG instrumental, in STR first stanza, and in the IT first stanza and chorus. He would incorporate that technique in The Astonishing and in the current IW&B tour, most noticeable in Take The Time.

But it still doesn't stop there. Compare DT12 with TA. SwingJazz blastebeats in Thee Days. Simultaneous snare rolls in Astonishing. Playing the ride with one hand while doing a melodic tom pattern with the other in Dystopian Overture. Then the whole The Walking Shadow. Those are things we haven't heard before.

I could do the same thing with Virgil Donati and Marco Minnemann. But the point is, Portnoy is a talented drummer but he really stopped growing with SDOIT. After that, he is just recombining old stuff. Still fun to play, but if you're a drummer, everything would really be familiar.
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: bosk1 on November 01, 2017, 05:26:50 PM
I understand all of that.  Again, I just don't understand why it is a criticism.  It's like criticizing John Petrucci for not playing bluegrass.  Yeah, you can rightly point out that he doesn't.  And you can rightly point out that he has been playing guitar since the late '70s and STILL apparently refuses to branch out and play bluegrass so many years later.  But so what?
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: Adami on November 01, 2017, 05:35:16 PM
I understand all of that.  Again, I just don't understand why it is a criticism.  It's like criticizing John Petrucci for not playing bluegrass.  Yeah, you can rightly point out that he doesn't.  And you can rightly point out that he has been playing guitar since the late '70s and STILL apparently refuses to branch out and play bluegrass so many years later.  But so what?

Because it's a novelty. Those aren't just fills or beats. They are Portnoyisms. When someone wants to sound/play like Portnoy, they do exactly what he did on the SoA album. So when you have those very specific mannerisms repeated over and over and over, they tend to stand out a lot more. At least that's how it is for me. It would be like if LaBrie hit the F# in every single song. Eventually it gets annoying because it's a very specific thing and when it's repeated SO much, it can be annoying.

Not sure if any of that helps. If not, then I'll just say that Stadler is a liar and see where that takes me.
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: erwinrafael on November 01, 2017, 05:36:52 PM
It's not about JP playing bluegrass. It's about him still coming up with new catchy riffs and new melodic solos that still sound fresh after the years of guitar playing. Based on The Astonishing, he still can.

Can we say the same of MP and his drum patterns and fills? No. The first thing that comes to mind when I hear him now is "I have heard this before." Before, I looked at it as a positive. Few drummers have a signature sound that is instantly recognizeable. But now, I don't view it positively anymore because it's now sounding like a crutch instead of a signature.
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: TAC on November 01, 2017, 05:39:06 PM
I understand all of that.  Again, I just don't understand why it is a criticism.   

Bosk, I actually agree with you, and you've done a good job of helping me understand why I hate people saying "same old MP".

I think MP reached a certain level, and now he just wants to play drums in a band. It's not about exploration or drilling down into some ridiculous technique for him. His motivations are just different than Mangini or Minneman.  That's ok.
 

Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: ganpondorodf on November 01, 2017, 05:51:28 PM
I made a similar point once before; 'prog' doesn't really mean 'progressive' anymore, in the same way that an 'indie' band can be on a major label. It grew to refer to a particular style and sound and not necessarily the ideology behind it. Portnoy wants (occasionally) to play prog, but he's not interested in being progressive in the literal sense of exploring new styles or fusions thereof. And that's fine! Sons of Apollo is still boring to me though.
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: Madman Shepherd on November 01, 2017, 06:34:02 PM
Good points all around.  Especially ganpondorodf and erwinrafael.  I can totally understand why MP may bore you guys as of late.  But for someone like me that can't play drums but still has enough musical knowledge to examine those things, Mike's lack of improvement doesn't matter *that* much.  I still prefer Mangini as a drummer (and a personality) but Portnoy's portnoyisms aren't much of a turnoff at all.  Of course, had he spent some more time improving his craft then maybe it would make the music more exciting.  SoA is the only thing he has done post-DT that even remotely interests me. 
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: erwinrafael on November 01, 2017, 07:30:24 PM
A confounding factor is that MP handles his drums like a lead instrument, ala Peart, Donati, and Bozzio. This is opposed to amazing drummers who drum as a rhythm player, like Mangini, Bruford and Alan White. Because of this, MP's lack of "arsenal" is more noticeable because he is very up front.

This doesn't mean that he never played good drums. It just means that a song needs to be written around the Portnoyisms to make them brilliant. Stream of Consciousness, Panic Attack, Constant Motion are examples of these.

Given the lack of new fills and combos, I wish MP would go back to what made Awake my favorite MP record: his ability to make distinct drum patterns for each song. In Awake, each song, eavh section, is marked by a signature pattern. This is something MP sort of "forgot" after becoming reliant on the Portnoyisms. It's the rrason why my favorite drumming in Psychotic Symphony is that simple intro and verse pattern to Signs of the Times. Very catchy and very distinct.
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: portnoy311 on November 01, 2017, 08:35:02 PM
My thing is that MP has really serious holes in his playing that get exposed when he does different types of music. His playing is very flat without any real sense of groove or feel, or really much dynamics. He has chops, sure, but claiming to be a 'musical chameleon' and then playing the same flat way in bands calling for very different types of feeling and groove just doesn't cut it for me.
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: KevShmev on November 01, 2017, 09:00:43 PM
As I have said before, while I agree that Portnoy's playing is very samey and predictable, my enjoyment of it is directly correlated to how good the music around it is.

If the songs are great, like on The Similitude of a Dream, I enjoy his playing a ton.

If the songs are bland, like on the Sons of Apollo record, his drumming stands out in a "been there, heard this" kind of way. 

Seems like nowadays you can almost air drum to some of his parts the first time hearing a song because you just know what is coming.

Given the fact that he admits that he doesn't practice anymore, it kind of just seems like he arrives in the studio and reaches into his usual grab bag.  Nothing wrong that since, like has been said before, he does a lot of things extremely well, but it's kind of disappointing to see such an accomplished musician rest on his laurels and take the "I've done enough" approach to his playing.
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: Madman Shepherd on November 01, 2017, 10:25:47 PM
My thing is that MP has really serious holes in his playing that get exposed when he does different types of music. His playing is very flat without any real sense of groove or feel, or really much dynamics.

Always drives me nuts when people say he plays with more "feel" as if a more technically inclined drummer like Mangini doesn't have any feel (he does).  Interesting to hear someone say Portnoy doesn't have much feel.  I wouldn't go that far but I do think the idea that he plays with more feel is way over-exaggerated. 
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: erwinrafael on November 01, 2017, 10:30:43 PM
Portnoy's drumming has feel when he composes the parts well. Just listen to Peruvian Skies.
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: emtee on November 02, 2017, 07:09:58 AM
I can't jump on the anti-Portnoy bandwagon in terms of his playing.

The man is an elite drummer with a catalog of recorded music that he should be proud of. Do I think that he would benefit from
taking longer to create his parts? Yes. But his studio work is flawless.

I think some people need to ask themselves a serious question. Do you hold Portnoy to a different standard? Do you expect every
drummer to bring in a wheelbarrow of new ideas on every recording? If so, fine, then go ahead and expect that from him too. But
if not, just appreciate his raw talents.

In some regard, though I'm sure he wishes now it weren't true, MP created this 'expectation' during his tenure with DT and has
mentioned it during interviews. He knew the fans expected something more on every album and it was a lot of pressure for him.
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: mikeyd23 on November 02, 2017, 07:45:26 AM
I think some people need to ask themselves a serious question. Do you hold Portnoy to a different standard? Do you expect every
drummer to bring in a wheelbarrow of new ideas on every recording? If so, fine, then go ahead and expect that from him too. But
if not, just appreciate his raw talents.

Honestly yes, I do. Because....

The man is an elite drummer with a catalog of recorded music that he should be proud of. Do I think that he would benefit from
taking longer to create his parts? Yes. But his studio work is flawless.

Therefore, expectations are higher.
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: The Curious Orange on November 02, 2017, 07:54:39 AM
I thought MP's playing on the SoA album was some off the best he's done for many a year. There's little drum fills in there that really show off how good he is.

Do I think he's as good as he used to be? No, he's gotten lazy. But he's still a highly listenable drummer.

But I wish he'd stop riding that fucking cymbal. I want to snatch it off him and ram it up his arse.
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: The Walrus on November 02, 2017, 07:58:18 AM
But I wish he'd stop riding that fucking cymbal. I want to snatch it off him and ram it up his arse.

Is that why they call it a ride cymbal?
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: mikeyd23 on November 02, 2017, 08:15:37 AM
I thought MP's playing on the SoA album was some off the best he's done for many a year. There's little drum fills in there that really show off how good he is.

Do I think he's as good as he used to be? No, he's gotten lazy. But he's still a highly listenable drummer.

But I wish he'd stop riding that fucking cymbal. I want to snatch it off him and ram it up his arse.

Once again, I don't think anyone here is saying he isn't "listenable", heck he's still one of my favorite drummers. We are just pointing out that he stopped growing and evolving as a player a long, long time ago - and that's okay. I'm not saying he needs to do anything different. Just observing and commenting.
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: Stadler on November 02, 2017, 08:31:33 AM
I'll say for the Xth time that I really don't get the criticism of Mike's drumming.  I just don't comprehend it.  I mean, I get that it is more or less the same as what we've heard.  But I mean I don't get it as a criticism.  He's a drummer.  The vast majority of drummers don't change or evolve their style much over time.  And even when they do add some new things, due to the nature of the instrument, it often times isn't going to sound "new" even in those circumstances.  Maybe I'm missing something, but it just seems to me that you either like Mike's drumming or you don't.  And if you did and you've lost interest over time, then that's really not on him, and it just is what it is.

Think about it this way. Compare the following works of MP that are several years apart:

Train of Thought
BC&SL
Psychotic Symphony

You really won't hear much of a difference in the drumming in these albums. I would contend that almost all of MP's techniques in these albums, you would pretty much hear as variations of The Glass Prison and Blind Faith. And even for those two songs, you could already trace the style in Peruvian Skies and Trial of Tears.

Now let's compare for example with Mangini. Compare Elements of Persuasion and ADTOE. The snare and bass technique plus the lefty to righty shifts are retained but the difference in the orchestration is substantial. ADTOE is really MM's first time to showcase how he can support so many instruments at once.

But it doesn't stop there. Compare ADTOE with DT12. The difference again is susbstantial. You now hear for the first time those drum fills that use almost the whole kit. Then there are new polyrhythm combinations, most prominent in IT and Enigma Machine. And most important new technique is MM using two hi-hats or two rides at the same time, which are most prominent in TLG instrumental, in STR first stanza, and in the IT first stanza and chorus. He would incorporate that technique in The Astonishing and in the current IW&B tour, most noticeable in Take The Time.

But it still doesn't stop there. Compare DT12 with TA. SwingJazz blastebeats in Thee Days. Simultaneous snare rolls in Astonishing. Playing the ride with one hand while doing a melodic tom pattern with the other in Dystopian Overture. Then the whole The Walking Shadow. Those are things we haven't heard before.

I could do the same thing with Virgil Donati and Marco Minnemann. But the point is, Portnoy is a talented drummer but he really stopped growing with SDOIT. After that, he is just recombining old stuff. Still fun to play, but if you're a drummer, everything would really be familiar.

But some of that isn't apples to apples.  I'm not a drummer, but since it was widely reported that the level of contribution from Mangini in crafting the parts on ADTOE and 12 were very different, I'm not sure the "differences" are solely attributable to Mangini's creative superiority. 

And at the end of the day, to what end?   I sat in the theater for The Astonishing first waiting for intermission to get a beer, then waiting to see if we were getting anything special for the encore.  I sat in TSOAD with tears in my eyes watching every note, hearing every word.    I watched every minute of Shattered Fortress, watching each moment those musicians took.   The point here isn't to downplay the drumming - I get that this discussion is about that, not the music itself - but it is to say that "dual handed reverse paradiddles in 16/13 time played in conjunction with blastbeats in 9/12 time" isn't the only way to further the craft or be creative.   It's also a fair statement to say that songs like Kayla, The Storm, Stranger In Your Soul, Regret, and Momentum resonate differently than, say, Light Fuse and Get Away, and I think it's fair to say that at least some of that is attributable to Portnoy being a better drummer. 

Some of this is perhaps colored by the fact that I just saw Yngwie Malmsteen for the first time the other night, because he's sort of the same way for me, but as for "feel", who knows who plays with more feel?  All I know is that FOR ME, Portnoy can play 16/13 and make it feel to me like 4/4, Mangini plays 4/4 and makes it feel to me like 16/13.  The others in my drumming Mt. Rushmore - Peart, Collins, Bonham - do something similar.   That's how the great ones roll; to this day I hear drummers say how it's hard to play things like "Rock And Roll" and capture it exactly right.   
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: bosk1 on November 02, 2017, 08:46:05 AM
Yeah, I think there's a lot to that.  Not to go too far afield, but to use another drummer as an example, let's talk about Steve Smith for a second.  When I was younger, I always viewed him as being pretty plain, vanilla as a drummer.  And that's okay.  It wasn't a criticism.  Just an observation that I was never attracted to Journey because of any "creative" over the top drumming.  He laid down the solid rhythm for the others to do their thing.  I didn't understand so many people talking about what an incredible influence he is on so many well-known drummers and how sought-after he is as a session guy.  But when I hear others trying to cover his parts, it becomes pretty obvious that they can't play what he plays the way he plays it.  He does some really cool things and just makes them sound like no big deal.  And that in and of itself can be a pretty big deal. 

To bring it back, I think what Portnoy does is more complex than what Smith does.  But over the years, after hearing SO MUCH of Portnoy's drumming, it can start to sound like "no big deal."  But there is a lot going on that is easy to just gloss over and not appreciate, and just put in the box of "oh, that's just the standard Mike Portnoy chorus fill #1.  Next time through, he'll do standard Mike Portnoy chorus fill #2.  And so on."  But there's usually a lot more going on that I think we easily become deaf to just because of getting used to his style.  For me, being so immersed in DT with a new drummer, and hearing so much MP outside of DT, it has really made me RE-appreciate what Portnoy brings to the table...er...drum kit.  :D
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: Kwyjibo on November 02, 2017, 08:46:22 AM
We criticise MP for not evolving (enough) and then we go mad over the new Metallica disc.  ??? ::) :biggrin:
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: goo-goo on November 02, 2017, 09:21:34 AM
I thought MP's playing on the SoA album was some off the best he's done for many a year. There's little drum fills in there that really show off how good he is.

Do I think he's as good as he used to be? No, he's gotten lazy. But he's still a highly listenable drummer.

But I wish he'd stop riding that fucking cymbal. I want to snatch it off him and ram it up his arse.

Once again, I don't think anyone here is saying he isn't "listenable", heck he's still one of my favorite drummers. We are just pointing out that he stopped growing and evolving as a player a long, long time ago - and that's okay. I'm not saying he needs to do anything different. Just observing and commenting.

Looking back at my comment about Mike not evolving as a player, I think I should have said and added also something about the song arranging and composing.

His drumming playing actually shines when he is NOT involved in the arrangements. Take Winery Dogs and the Neal Morse band. He actually has very nice and interesting drum fills, but Richie has a lot of the songs written. In Transatlantic, he shined a lot in the early stuff but became more predictable in the last album. With the NNB, Neal writes most of the stuff and MP add his magic with something already written for him.  With Sons of Apollo, the arrangements and composing of the songs are a bit lacking and repeatable. You basically are hearing same drumming parts from Black Clouds and Systematic Chaos, where DT as a whole did had some sections that just did not belong there or seemed out of place (which falls into the song arrangement category, where JP and MP were involved). When MP left, I do think DT (more specifically JP) improved in the song arrangements. They feel more in place and more concise.

And someone here kind of addressed it where MP bases his arrangements on the "Meshuggah section", the "King Crimson Section" etc. You come with some preconceived ideas you want to FORCE when writing and arranging a song, and don't look back at it and llet the song breathe and make changes later on.

Finally, this is not a shot to MP. I love the guy. I've been an MP fanboy for many years. He's been very down to earth and approachable when I have met him a few times, and own all of his material and releases. But the guy is a blast to talk and watch. I agree and disagree on some of his behavior.  But this is the first release were I didn't feel the MP feeling that I always have for his releases. The singles felt uninspired, Soto's voice felt underused. I'm only talking musically about SoA. Hell, I even thought his drumming for Amob was great (served a purpose, to provide energy for the song). I did buy the album but I have only listened to it once when I got and haven't played it back.

Hopefully this explains my post a bit more in regards to MP's drumming.
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: mikeyd23 on November 02, 2017, 10:40:32 AM
^ great post goo-goo, I can't argue with much of that.
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: rumborak on November 02, 2017, 11:27:20 AM
My comment would be, I think the expectation, arguably even the "point", of MP plugging himself into all these different bands is that the sum will be more than its parts. That, to some degree, takes malleability so that those parts can gel with each other and take each other to places they weren't before. But, when MP just does his usual thing, it results in a "well, it's exactly what I imagined it to be when Billy Sheehan and Mike Portnoy play in the same band".
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: majo on November 02, 2017, 03:56:38 PM
I must admit I quite like MP's drumming in the SoA - I only listen to tracks 1,3,4 and 8.
I don't care much about post ToT DT though, so his drumming here doesn't feel worn out to me.
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: erwinrafael on November 02, 2017, 04:53:41 PM
Do you hold Portnoy to a different standard?

No. The reason why this came up is precisely because he is being compared to other drummers of his generation like Mangini, Donati, and Minnemann.

Do you expect every drummer to bring in a wheelbarrow of new ideas on every recording?

Of course not. But I sure would not expect everything, as in every drumming idea, he has in 2017 is traceable to 2002 (actually 1997 if I would be a jerk about it).
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: erwinrafael on November 02, 2017, 05:21:59 PM
Based on the songwriting credits, can we assume that Sheehan was the second to the last member to join which is why he is credited in only three songs, and Soto is the last to join so he is not credited at all? Portnoy is quite insistent in crediting everybody involved in a jam studio session, right?
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: Adami on November 02, 2017, 05:23:15 PM
Based on the songwriting credits, can we assume that Sheehan was the second to the last member to join which is why he is credited in only three songs, and Soto is the last to join so he is not credited at all? Portnoy is quite insistent in crediting everybody involved in a jam studio session, right?

Yea, they said Sheehan came in near the end once most of it was written. Soto wrote vocals though, or do you mean music? They said he wrote a good amount of the vocals, but wasn't there for any of the instrumental stuff.
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: erwinrafael on November 02, 2017, 06:08:16 PM
They did not credit JSS for music, only.lyrics.
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: Adami on November 02, 2017, 06:14:57 PM
They did not credit JSS for music, only.lyrics.


Oh okay yea. He helped with vocals. All the music underneath was written. Mostly be DS and RT it seems.
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: Peter Mc on November 03, 2017, 07:46:14 AM
I'll say for the Xth time that I really don't get the criticism of Mike's drumming.  I just don't comprehend it.  I mean, I get that it is more or less the same as what we've heard.  But I mean I don't get it as a criticism.  He's a drummer.  The vast majority of drummers don't change or evolve their style much over time.  And even when they do add some new things, due to the nature of the instrument, it often times isn't going to sound "new" even in those circumstances.  Maybe I'm missing something, but it just seems to me that you either like Mike's drumming or you don't.  And if you did and you've lost interest over time, then that's really not on him, and it just is what it is.

Think about it this way. Compare the following works of MP that are several years apart:

Train of Thought
BC&SL
Psychotic Symphony

You really won't hear much of a difference in the drumming in these albums. I would contend that almost all of MP's techniques in these albums, you would pretty much hear as variations of The Glass Prison and Blind Faith. And even for those two songs, you could already trace the style in Peruvian Skies and Trial of Tears.

Now let's compare for example with Mangini. Compare Elements of Persuasion and ADTOE. The snare and bass technique plus the lefty to righty shifts are retained but the difference in the orchestration is substantial. ADTOE is really MM's first time to showcase how he can support so many instruments at once.

But it doesn't stop there. Compare ADTOE with DT12. The difference again is susbstantial. You now hear for the first time those drum fills that use almost the whole kit. Then there are new polyrhythm combinations, most prominent in IT and Enigma Machine. And most important new technique is MM using two hi-hats or two rides at the same time, which are most prominent in TLG instrumental, in STR first stanza, and in the IT first stanza and chorus. He would incorporate that technique in The Astonishing and in the current IW&B tour, most noticeable in Take The Time.

But it still doesn't stop there. Compare DT12 with TA. SwingJazz blastebeats in Thee Days. Simultaneous snare rolls in Astonishing. Playing the ride with one hand while doing a melodic tom pattern with the other in Dystopian Overture. Then the whole The Walking Shadow. Those are things we haven't heard before.

I could do the same thing with Virgil Donati and Marco Minnemann. But the point is, Portnoy is a talented drummer but he really stopped growing with SDOIT. After that, he is just recombining old stuff. Still fun to play, but if you're a drummer, everything would really be familiar.

But some of that isn't apples to apples.  I'm not a drummer, but since it was widely reported that the level of contribution from Mangini in crafting the parts on ADTOE and 12 were very different, I'm not sure the "differences" are solely attributable to Mangini's creative superiority. 

And at the end of the day, to what end?   I sat in the theater for The Astonishing first waiting for intermission to get a beer, then waiting to see if we were getting anything special for the encore.  I sat in TSOAD with tears in my eyes watching every note, hearing every word.    I watched every minute of Shattered Fortress, watching each moment those musicians took.   The point here isn't to downplay the drumming - I get that this discussion is about that, not the music itself - but it is to say that "dual handed reverse paradiddles in 16/13 time played in conjunction with blastbeats in 9/12 time" isn't the only way to further the craft or be creative.   It's also a fair statement to say that songs like Kayla, The Storm, Stranger In Your Soul, Regret, and Momentum resonate differently than, say, Light Fuse and Get Away, and I think it's fair to say that at least some of that is attributable to Portnoy being a better drummer. 

Some of this is perhaps colored by the fact that I just saw Yngwie Malmsteen for the first time the other night, because he's sort of the same way for me, but as for "feel", who knows who plays with more feel?  All I know is that FOR ME, Portnoy can play 16/13 and make it feel to me like 4/4, Mangini plays 4/4 and makes it feel to me like 16/13.  The others in my drumming Mt. Rushmore - Peart, Collins, Bonham - do something similar.   That's how the great ones roll; to this day I hear drummers say how it's hard to play things like "Rock And Roll" and capture it exactly right.

That's not really a fair comparison either though as you clearly aren't a fan of TA and therefore it was likely that you were not going to be into the concert, not sure this can be put purely on Mangini as I saw that show and his drumming was out of this world, thought he was the best thing about it and I'm not a drummer.

Neal Morse music is emotionally charged and often brings a tear my eye so yeah, that show would have been great (again, not purely due to Mike Portnoy though) and the Shattered Fortress show was always going to be special as it was Mike coming back and playing DT songs again.

Basically then you are comparing two emotionally charged shows consisting of material that you love with a concert of material you dislike and this is supposed to be evidence that one is a better drummer than the other?

Clearly Mike Portnoy is an all time great drummer, you don't win the plaudits and awards he has if that is not the case.  He is also a hugely technical drummer, those trying to suggest Mangini is a technical player and Portnoy is a feel player are not seeing the full picture.  They are both OTT flashy drummers, Portnoy is probably the poster boy for ridiculous technical drumming.  My friend, who is a drummer, always refers to Mike Portnoy as the Yngwie Malmsteen of drumming, huge ego, huge show off rather than playing for the song.  When he heard TA, he said immediately you could tell it wasn't MP as the drumming was much more restrained.  I also remember, when Therapy? were auditioning drummers, them commenting that a load of people were coming in with these massive kits thinking they were Mike Portnoy.  He is known as a technical monster drummer, not a feel player.

I personally have always enjoyed MP's playing and his live presence on stage, he is a show off but that's always been part of DT's appeal, they can all play to an extraordinary level and they're going to show just how good they are.  I don't totally buy into the Yngwie comment and think he is more musical than some give him credit for.  His drumming in some of the epic DT and NM moments is just sublime and totally adds to those moments with these explosive fills. 

I think it is true that he has stopped evolving, he now has his box of tricks and uses them as he sees fit, he admits that he doesn't practice anymore, doesn't do clinics anymore and that's absolutely fine, why should he when he plays in so many bands which must put a strain on his ageing limbs as it is.  He's earned the right after so many years to just have fun playing drums and use his experience rather than try to learn new things.  Also, at the end of the day, he's just the drummer, no matter how inventive and clever the drumming is, it will not have a huge effect on the song, I've never heard of a bad song saved by great drumming!

It has been nice to hear some new things on recent DT albums but not sure how much of that is because I'm not familiar with Mangini's other work or because he is doing new stuff.  There are certain moments when Mangini is a little too restrained for me in some of the epic moments and I miss MP exploding all over it.  There are other times though when he blows my mind with some incredible technical super speed drumming.  Seeing him perform two drum rolls simultaneously with his two hands live was just jaw dropping as I never realised on the record that it was happening.

They are both great drummers, I don't think Mangini should be derided because he does innovative technical things and likes to explain them in detail (like the teacher that he is) and don't think Mike should be derided for sticking to what he knows after 20 odd years of kicking everyone's ass. 
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: KevShmev on November 03, 2017, 08:45:29 AM
Based on the songwriting credits, can we assume that Sheehan was the second to the last member to join which is why he is credited in only three songs, and Soto is the last to join so he is not credited at all? Portnoy is quite insistent in crediting everybody involved in a jam studio session, right?

To me, there is a big difference between being a songwriter and a collaborator. 

A songwriter is someone who can go into room by themselves and write a whole song (vocal melodies, arrangement, music, etc.).

A collaborator is someone who can contribute to the writing of a song, but doesn't have the capability to write songs all by themselves.

For all of his writing credits over the years, I think it's clear that Portnoy is a collaborator, not a songwriter.
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: bosk1 on November 03, 2017, 08:49:34 AM
My understanding is that he can compose a song on his own, and that he has composed songs or parts of songs through the years--but that he is most commonly a "collaborator," as you use the term.  Just clarifying that he can and does "write" at times, although that appears to be the minority.  And that of course makes sense since his primary instrument is not a compositional instrument.
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: bill1971 on November 03, 2017, 08:51:38 AM
"They are both great drummers, I don't think Mangini should be derided because he does innovative technical things and likes to explain them in detail (like the teacher that he is) and don't think Mike should be derided for sticking to what he knows after 20 odd years of kicking everyone's ass."

Good point. MP was one of the leaders and innovators of Prog drumming of the 90's. It's not that he is worse it's that he stayed still while others such as Mangini, Virgil, Gavin Harrison, etc shot past him. It's like today's athletes being faster and stronger. I think maybe I expect too much of him. I think to be fair it's his talking and ego that has me expecting more though.
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: Skeever on November 03, 2017, 10:19:26 AM
Alright, so I managed to answer my own question about how well the album is doing.

Psychotic Symphony, two weeks in, has debuted at 37 on the Billboard Charts.
https://www.billboard.com/charts/top-album-sales

So much for competing with DT.
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: MirrorMask on November 03, 2017, 10:27:58 AM
How DT did on Billboard and how Adrenaline Mob rather than Flying Colors or Winery Dogs did? just to get a better understanding.
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: Architeuthis on November 03, 2017, 10:40:55 AM
[quote author=bill1971 link=topic=51084.msg2373341#msg2

Good point. MP was one of the leaders and innovators of Prog drumming of the 90's. It's not that he is worse it's that he stayed still while others such as Mangini, Virgil, Gavin Harrison, etc shot past him. It's like today's athletes being faster and stronger. I think maybe I expect too much of him. I think to be fair it's his talking and ego that has me expecting more though.
[/quote]
 In what ways have they shot passed him? After listening carefully to his drumming on SOA, I don't any of those guys have exceeded his drumming..
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: ariich on November 03, 2017, 10:42:30 AM
Alright, so I managed to answer my own question about how well the album is doing.

Psychotic Symphony, two weeks in, has debuted at 37 on the Billboard Charts.
https://www.billboard.com/charts/top-album-sales

So much for competing with DT.
Huh, so what was that nonsense a few days ago about the album being #147 in the charts?

#37 is actually not bad for a brand new project.
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: Madman Shepherd on November 03, 2017, 10:46:02 AM
Alright, so I managed to answer my own question about how well the album is doing.

Psychotic Symphony, two weeks in, has debuted at 37 on the Billboard Charts.
https://www.billboard.com/charts/top-album-sales

So much for competing with DT.
Huh, so what was that nonsense a few days ago about the album being #147 in the charts?

#37 is actually not bad for a brand new project.

Well it wasn't nonsense in the sense that it was at 147. I saw it with my own eyes. I have no idea how to explain this discrepancy though.

#37 is about what I expected for this new project. That's why 147 was such a shock.

Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: Anguyen92 on November 03, 2017, 10:48:46 AM
It could very well be that #37 is how they charted in terms of physical copies.  #147 is probably with physical copies and streaming services.  I see Trivium at #7 from this link https://www.billboard.com/charts/top-album-sales, but they ended up #22-23 with streaming services included (which does counts as the Billboard 200).
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: ariich on November 03, 2017, 10:50:40 AM
Alright, so I managed to answer my own question about how well the album is doing.

Psychotic Symphony, two weeks in, has debuted at 37 on the Billboard Charts.
https://www.billboard.com/charts/top-album-sales

So much for competing with DT.
Huh, so what was that nonsense a few days ago about the album being #147 in the charts?

#37 is actually not bad for a brand new project.

Well it wasn't nonsense in the sense that it was at 147. I saw it with my own eyes. I have no idea how to explain this discrepancy though.

#37 is about what I expected for this new project. That's why 147 was such a shock.
Gone back to that part of the thread and can't see a link, just someone stating that it was the case. Weird.

I don't know that I had a very specific expectation, but this is probably higher than I was thinking. Not that first week sales really matter, in my opinion.
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: ariich on November 03, 2017, 10:53:18 AM
It could very well be that #37 is how they charted in terms of physical copies.  #147 is probably with physical copies and streaming services.  I see Trivium at #7 from this link https://www.billboard.com/charts/top-album-sales, but they ended up #22-23 with streaming services included (which does counts as the Billboard 200).
OK you might be right. Seems to be a difference between:

Top Albums Sales: https://www.billboard.com/charts/top-album-sales

and

Billboard 200: https://www.billboard.com/charts/billboard-200
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: mikeyd23 on November 03, 2017, 11:37:43 AM
It could very well be that #37 is how they charted in terms of physical copies.  #147 is probably with physical copies and streaming services.  I see Trivium at #7 from this link https://www.billboard.com/charts/top-album-sales, but they ended up #22-23 with streaming services included (which does counts as the Billboard 200).
OK you might be right. Seems to be a difference between:

Top Albums Sales: https://www.billboard.com/charts/top-album-sales

and

Billboard 200: https://www.billboard.com/charts/billboard-200

Yeah I think Anguyen is exactly right. One list takes into account streaming and one doesn't.
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: Madman Shepherd on November 03, 2017, 11:47:05 AM
So does that mean they are relatively successful with physical copies but not when it comes to streaming?
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: The Walrus on November 03, 2017, 11:51:40 AM
So does that mean they are relatively successful with physical copies but not when it comes to streaming?

I would imagine these days the most successful mainstream artists are getting streams a lot more than physical purchases, so it doesn't surprise me to see them drop way down when it includes streaming. I've been a Spotify user for years but it still impresses me when I see songs with upwards of 56 million plays or more.
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: bosk1 on November 03, 2017, 12:00:47 PM
So does that mean they are relatively successful with physical copies but not when it comes to streaming?

Not necessarily.  I think it's just that so many people stream nowadays in comparison to buying physical albums that their lack of big sales numbers is just more apparent when you take streaming into account because you get a much larger segment of the buying public to compare it to.  If SoA sells 1,000 physical copies compared to Pink selling 10,000 this week, that's a big discrepancy.  But if you take streaming into account and the numbers are 2,000 to 100,000, it's a much bigger gap.  It doesn't mean they are more successful at selling physical albums.  It means you have a larger sample size.
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: nattmorker on November 03, 2017, 12:11:03 PM
So does that mean they are relatively successful with physical copies but not when it comes to streaming?

Not necessarily.  I think it's just that so many people stream nowadays in comparison to buying physical albums that their lack of big sales numbers is just more apparent when you take streaming into account because you get a much larger segment of the buying public to compare it to.  If SoA sells 1,000 physical copies compared to Pink selling 10,000 this week, that's a big discrepancy.  But if you take streaming into account and the numbers are 2,000 to 100,000, it's a much bigger gap.  It doesn't mean they are more successful at selling physical albums.  It means you have a larger sample size.

That could be the reason, sounds logical. I still haven't listened to the album (except for the two "singles", which i didn't care for and God of the Sun, which was ok and have some cool moments), maybe someday I will.
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: Nekov on November 03, 2017, 12:43:20 PM
So does that mean they are relatively successful with physical copies but not when it comes to streaming?

Not necessarily.  I think it's just that so many people stream nowadays in comparison to buying physical albums that their lack of big sales numbers is just more apparent when you take streaming into account because you get a much larger segment of the buying public to compare it to.  If SoA sells 1,000 physical copies compared to Pink selling 10,000 this week, that's a big discrepancy.  But if you take streaming into account and the numbers are 2,000 to 100,000, it's a much bigger gap.  It doesn't mean they are more successful at selling physical albums.  It means you have a larger sample size.

Also, there's been a trend with mainstream artists where people don't care for the album, just the 3 or 4 songs that get played on the radio which is what people stream and what boosts the numbers significantly. There's also the fact that songs by more mainstream artists will show up more frequently in the default playlists in spotify, google music, etc so that also boosts their number.
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: Madman Shepherd on November 03, 2017, 12:56:37 PM
So does that mean they are relatively successful with physical copies but not when it comes to streaming?

Not necessarily.  I think it's just that so many people stream nowadays in comparison to buying physical albums that their lack of big sales numbers is just more apparent when you take streaming into account because you get a much larger segment of the buying public to compare it to.  If SoA sells 1,000 physical copies compared to Pink selling 10,000 this week, that's a big discrepancy.  But if you take streaming into account and the numbers are 2,000 to 100,000, it's a much bigger gap.  It doesn't mean they are more successful at selling physical albums.  It means you have a larger sample size.

Also, there's been a trend with mainstream artists where people don't care for the album, just the 3 or 4 songs that get played on the radio which is what people stream and what boosts the numbers significantly. There's also the fact that songs by more mainstream artists will show up more frequently in the default playlists in spotify, google music, etc so that also boosts their number.

Didn't think of it that way. I was surprised to see a lot of old artists still charting but if it's as easy as clicking a button it makes more sense.
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: rumborak on November 03, 2017, 05:02:46 PM
Skeever, ask and ye shall receive:

https://www.blabbermouth.net/news/mike-portnoy-was-miserable-playing-tiny-little-clubs-with-adrenaline-mob/

Quote
Psychotic Symphony" was released October 20 by InsideOut Music. It sold around 5,200 copies in the United States in its first week of release [...] In contrast, "Hot Streak", the second album by THE WINERY DOGS, debuted at No. 30 on the Billboard 200 in 2015 after shifting 13,000 copies during its week of release
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: bill1971 on November 03, 2017, 05:33:23 PM
So does that mean they are relatively successful with physical copies but not when it comes to streaming?

Not necessarily.  I think it's just that so many people stream nowadays in comparison to buying physical albums that their lack of big sales numbers is just more apparent when you take streaming into account because you get a much larger segment of the buying public to compare it to.  If SoA sells 1,000 physical copies compared to Pink selling 10,000 this week, that's a big discrepancy.  But if you take streaming into account and the numbers are 2,000 to 100,000, it's a much bigger gap.  It doesn't mean they are more successful at selling physical albums.  It means you have a larger sample size.

Also, there's been a trend with mainstream artists where people don't care for the album, just the 3 or 4 songs that get played on the radio which is what people stream and what boosts the numbers significantly. There's also the fact that songs by more mainstream artists will show up more frequently in the default playlists in spotify, google music, etc so that also boosts their number.

Didn't think of it that way. I was surprised to see a lot of old artists still charting but if it's as easy as clicking a button it makes more sense.

Absolutely, I will be out to eat or at happy hour and hear a song I remember liking then open my Amazon music app and within minutes it will be in my possession.
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: Destiny Of Chaos on November 03, 2017, 06:14:31 PM
Can't stop spinning this masterpiece. Exaclty what I was hoping for and still somehow exceeded my expectations.
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: Schurftkut on November 03, 2017, 06:59:42 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eJQuuLoe0rc&sns=em
it'll be live in a few minutes
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: Mosh on November 03, 2017, 08:11:01 PM
Winery Dogs was pushed pretty hard by Eddie Trunk. Probably didn't make the difference of 8,000 copies but I'm sure it helped. In general the album was better promoted I thought. I'm still not really sure who the audience of SoA was supposed to be.
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: ytserush on November 03, 2017, 08:33:48 PM
Saturation is a generic problem to the music business right now anyhow. There's so much more music available now due to the ease of distribution, that there is a huge difficulty of getting any traction. And since the income for any album release not in the top 10 of the charts for several weeks is most likely not even recouperating the cost of production, bands have to tour much more nowadays than they ever did before, with new ways to source income (like those VIP packages and extensive merchandise "special items". So while a single artist on himself might not saturate the market, the amount of concerts and releases OVERALL is just saturating the market. So if you're "niche", as most of the projects MP is involved in is, you're not gonna get as much attention anymore as there's so much other stuff clamoring for that same attention. I remember MP complaining that people weren't responding to TSOAD in a way that reflected on sales and concert tickets... I think he should be glad for any attention at this point because his fanbase isn't getting younger... Which is also why I'm surprised that from day ONE his way of dealing with SOA stuff has been alienating and pissing off potential fans. At this point he should work to get every fan on board he can.

The bigger picture...
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: ytserush on November 03, 2017, 08:40:48 PM
I'll say for the Xth time that I really don't get the criticism of Mike's drumming.  I just don't comprehend it.  I mean, I get that it is more or less the same as what we've heard.  But I mean I don't get it as a criticism.  He's a drummer.  The vast majority of drummers don't change or evolve their style much over time.  And even when they do add some new things, due to the nature of the instrument, it often times isn't going to sound "new" even in those circumstances.  Maybe I'm missing something, but it just seems to me that you either like Mike's drumming or you don't.  And if you did and you've lost interest over time, then that's really not on him, and it just is what it is.

Exactly,

What you see/hear is what you get and he's unapologetic about it.

Doesn't bother me because it's only part of the equation.
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: RodrigoAltaf on November 03, 2017, 08:40:56 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eJQuuLoe0rc&sns=em
it'll be live in a few minutes

Thanks for sharing this...it was really cool!
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: ytserush on November 03, 2017, 08:57:10 PM
It's a fair criticism of MP.  He should be innovating sounds, styles, techniques on every release.  Sounding the same every time is not acceptable at this level of Prog.  Look at the threads lambasting John Myung for the same sound every album.....oh wait.

In a perfect world, maybe....yeah.

He has no interest in doing that. So you have the choice to accept him for what he does or don't. By now you should know what you're getting. It either works for you or it doesn't.
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: Adami on November 03, 2017, 08:59:32 PM
But by that logic, we're never allowed to criticize any artist for any reason, as long as they like what they did.

I mean, I get that logic, but man would that make life boring.
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: ytserush on November 03, 2017, 09:21:37 PM
Listening to this somewhat regularly for about a week and it's probably in the 4-5-6 range.

Bought the instrumental version because I'm not a Soto fan (Still haven't listened to that though.)

It is what it is.

It's kind of grown on me a bit though and Soto's voice isn't as bad I thought it might be. Least faves so far are Sign Of The Time, Labyrinth (Though I see what they did there.) and Alive. The rest of it isn't bad, but I can't see it resonating for very long. 

Not going to see them live. Want to wait to see what the next album is like. I really think they played it safe with this one which I suppose is kind of what they needed to do to get an album out before the tour.

At some point I'll give the instrumental disc a spin and see what happens. That was the insurance policy.

Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: ytserush on November 03, 2017, 09:23:08 PM
Winery Dogs was pushed pretty hard by Eddie Trunk. Probably didn't make the difference of 8,000 copies but I'm sure it helped. In general the album was better promoted I thought. I'm still not really sure who the audience of SoA was supposed to be.

I see no reason while he wouldn't do the same for this one. A lot of it is radio friendly.
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: ytserush on November 03, 2017, 09:25:29 PM
But by that logic, we're never allowed to criticize any artist for any reason, as long as they like what they did.

I mean, I get that logic, but man would that make life boring.

Criticize away then....
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: Adami on November 03, 2017, 09:26:43 PM
But by that logic, we're never allowed to criticize any artist for any reason, as long as they like what they did.

I mean, I get that logic, but man would that make life boring.

Criticize away then....


Hmmm......yo mama's so fat, when she sits on a rainbow, skittles pop out.
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: Anguyen92 on November 03, 2017, 09:40:45 PM
Winery Dogs was pushed pretty hard by Eddie Trunk. Probably didn't make the difference of 8,000 copies but I'm sure it helped. In general the album was better promoted I thought. I'm still not really sure who the audience of SoA was supposed to be.

I see no reason while he wouldn't do the same for this one. A lot of it is radio friendly.

The problem is that while it is "radio friendly," which I do not think it is imo, there are plenty of bands out there have a radio friendly sound and not only that, they look to be a lot more marketable than the prospects of Sons of Apollo, I feel.  I mean the market is so oversaturated with radio-friendly bands and they are so much younger than SOA.
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: Mosh on November 03, 2017, 10:23:10 PM
Winery Dogs was pushed pretty hard by Eddie Trunk. Probably didn't make the difference of 8,000 copies but I'm sure it helped. In general the album was better promoted I thought. I'm still not really sure who the audience of SoA was supposed to be.

I see no reason while he wouldn't do the same for this one. A lot of it is radio friendly.
Well Trunk also had a hand in Winery Dog's formation (I think he recommended Kotzen or something) so that was part of it.

I have a hard time calling SoA radio friendly. Some of it was certainly written with that intention but I'm not sure what radio station (terrestrial or satellite) would be interested in playing it. It's too proggy for the straight forward rock crowd and too straight forward for the prog crowd. There's a happy medium of course (just ask Rush) but Sons of Apollo seems kinda sloppily put together. Don't get me wrong, I thought the album was fine, but like I said I'm really not sure what they were going for. In the end it's probably going to only attract a small fraction of an already niche audience.
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: Adami on November 03, 2017, 10:24:55 PM
The difference is Rush is legacy. They were popular on the radio in a different era, and now they're on oldies and classic rock station because of their legacy.


SoA don't have any of that working in their favor. Also, catchy vocals doesn't equal radio friendly.
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: Mosh on November 03, 2017, 10:45:01 PM
Very true, but that also shaped their musical development. Check out Rush in the early 80's talking about how much they liked The Police, that was the sort of thing that was popular at the time. They were absorbing what was going on around them. Everything about Rush is natural and of its time. Everything about SoA is just middle of the road and contrived.

I definitely don't consider SoA radio friendly.
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: shadystraz360 on November 04, 2017, 12:24:15 AM
I heavily enjoyed the album. I thought it realy rocked and showed why DT shouldn't have lost both Derek & Mike...
2 greats teaming up to do what they do best...
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: Anguyen92 on November 04, 2017, 12:27:21 AM
I heavily enjoyed the album. I thought it realy rocked and showed why DT shouldn't have lost both Derek & Mike...
2 greats teaming up to do what they do best...

Honestly, given what DT's done without them, I'm not seeing why they need either Derek or Mike so yeah.
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: SwedishGoose on November 04, 2017, 02:50:23 AM
I heavily enjoyed the album. I thought it realy rocked and showed why DT shouldn't have lost both Derek & Mike...
2 greats teaming up to do what they do best...

Honestly, given what DT's done without them, I'm not seeing why they need either Derek or Mike so yeah.

There is not one DT album that I rank lower than Psycotic Symphony so if that is the measurement then it was good that DT lost both.

Having said that I think they are both very good contributors but they need someone who is a strong songwriter to work with (example Petrucci, Morse, Donati).
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: NoseofNicko on November 04, 2017, 03:16:34 AM
There is not one DT album that I rank lower than Psychotic Symphony

+1
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: ganpondorodf on November 04, 2017, 03:48:38 AM
Winery Dogs was pushed pretty hard by Eddie Trunk. Probably didn't make the difference of 8,000 copies but I'm sure it helped. In general the album was better promoted I thought. I'm still not really sure who the audience of SoA was supposed to be.

DT fans, at least until Portnoy and Sherinian decided to alienate them for some reason
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: MirrorMask on November 04, 2017, 07:37:31 AM
Happy birthday to Jeff Scott Soto!!!  :metal born the same day as Jordan!
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: Anguyen92 on November 04, 2017, 09:26:26 AM
Winery Dogs was pushed pretty hard by Eddie Trunk. Probably didn't make the difference of 8,000 copies but I'm sure it helped. In general the album was better promoted I thought. I'm still not really sure who the audience of SoA was supposed to be.

DT fans, at least until Portnoy and Sherinian decided to alienate them for some reason

Well, I think the audience of SoA would be those that would prefer the heavier (TOT-style) side of DT, especially given the direction of The Astonishing was not for everyone and people probably want a good alternative to that.  I personally thought in Mike and Derek's attempts to reach for that audience, I felt they took it a bit far with taking shots at The Astonishing (it may not be for everyone's taste but it was still a pretty creative album), taking shots at Jordan, and I was quite unamused when Mike took a shot at DTF and then close his own forum.

I think they could have done a lot of better in terms of the promotion.  You want to reach a good diversity of an audience.  People that love The Astonishing could still like something like SoA if you welcome them in, but I did not see that happening.
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: MirrorMask on November 04, 2017, 09:34:41 AM
Well, it's not all black and white, I love a lot The Astonishing, and still I quite like Psychotic Symphony, so it's not that only those who didn't like The Astonishing could find something to like in their album (something that they should have figured out honestly).
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: ErHaO on November 04, 2017, 11:32:59 AM
To chime in on one of the discussion above, I don't think Sons of Apollo is radio friendly to be honest, for the most part. Winery Dogs and (especially the first album of) Flying Colors were.

Also, I wonder what kind of tiny clubs he refers to in regards of Amob, as the venues of many of his other projects aren't that big either (over here). DT is probably the biggest prog metal band, at least here. Maybe Opeth draws similar crowds, I don't know. But 99% of the more well known artists in the prog metal genre plays small venues here. There are artists that have some prog metal in it that are relatively popular, but dedicated prog metal just isn't that big of a market.
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: mikeyd23 on November 04, 2017, 11:38:53 AM
Wow, so they only moved 5,200 copies in the first week? Maybe that marketing strategy didn’t go over so well.

Also, in terms of radio play, I don’t see anything on this record becoming a big FM radio rock hit. A band of dudes in there 50s and 60s playing middle of the road prog metal isn’t exactly a receipt for “hits”. Which is totally fine, I mean we are having this conversation on a DT forum, it’s not like popular equals good, but when we were told this project would be the “kings” of the genre it creates an expectation of a degree of popularity.
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: Architeuthis on November 04, 2017, 11:51:26 AM
The only potential radio friendly songs would either be Divine Addiction or Coming Home.  I'll be surprised if I ever hear either on the radio waves. Even mainstream hard rock radio is lame these days.
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: bosk1 on November 04, 2017, 12:16:08 PM
The only potential radio friendly songs would either be Divine Addiction or Coming Home.  I'll be surprised if I ever hear either on the radio waves. Even mainstream hard rock radio is lame these days.
Lost in Oblivion and Alive could very well be considered "radio friendly" as well.  You just never know. 
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: Architeuthis on November 04, 2017, 02:54:36 PM
Oh yeah, Alive is a good call..
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: rumborak on November 04, 2017, 03:17:41 PM
Wow, so they only moved 5,200 copies in the first week? Maybe that marketing strategy didn’t go over so well.

I think people often underestimate the drop-off in album charts. #1 might sell 1 million copies, but #50 is orders of magnitude lower, around 5,000 maybe. In that range the difference between #50 and #51 is whether one radio station played you or not.

I think a much more telling statistic is staying power. A lot of niche bands score one massive blip in the charts because their dedicated base buys the album on day one. But right after they disappear again.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Herrick on November 05, 2017, 10:37:41 AM
Yea...I have to say, a bunch of 50-60 year old men looking super tough in a dark room is NOT a good idea.

I mean that picture basically says "Y'all gonna get raped"

 :rollin

IMHO, this is the only way 50-60 year old guys should do band pics.

(https://media.cleveland.com/rockhall_impact/photo/rush-neil-peart-alex-lifeson-geddy-lee-andrew-macnaughtanjpg-a6eb2fbd41c48053.jpg)

 :heart

Yeah that really is a great band picture  :hefdaddy

Old Man Tough Guy Band photos are ok if they actually play heavy brutal music but DT was never that band so it's always a bit awkward when they take those "edgy" band pictures.
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: Madman Shepherd on November 05, 2017, 09:03:42 PM
All right...so I finally got to listen to the whole album on a decent system (no crappy laptop speakers) and it solidified my opinion that this is a very bipolar album.  That being sad, I moved my vote from a 5 to a 6 which almost pains me. 

God of the Sun, Labyrinth, and Divine Addiction are excellent songs.  They save the album.  Oddly enough, some of the keyboards fall into cheese territory.  I personally think they sound great because I love that traditional synth sound BUT when I brought this up to my buddy he said his wife just started laughing during the first keyboard break in God of the Sun.  He also says the album is 10/10. 

Coming Home and Sign of the Times are pretty bad.  I thought they were decent even though I didn't personally like them.  I changed my mind.  They are just bland, boring songs.  Lost in Oblivion has decent moments. 

Opus Maximus  is underwhelming. 

Figaro's Whore is dumb. 

I don't dig Alive but I have to admit it is a decent song. 

So there ya have it.  3 excellent songs.  1 decent, 1 with moments, 2 terrible, 1 irrelevant, and then Figaro's Whore is the Peter Criss solo album of the group.  In other words, "Oh yeah, he also released a solo album"..."Oh yeah, Derek has an intro song"

The whole roll out of this album was screwed up from the moment Bumblefoot was figured out to be the guitarist to Mike freaking out that people found out to two very subpar releases to hype the album.  Had they released God of the Sun or Labyrinth, it would have been the bold, progressive way to hype the album.  It would have got me excited.  Instead, two weeks later I'm trying to decide if I should buy it being the completist I am or just let it go. 

Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: Nick on November 06, 2017, 08:47:21 AM
So, I'm going to update my thoughts a little bit. I still think that fans were mislead leading up to this release in what to expect, but with the more listens that I distance myself from that the more I like this album. I know the consensus seems to be that Bumblefoot surprised a lot of people, and while I really do like him on this I still give the MVP to Sherinian who, although like the album wasn't groundbreaking, did a fantastic job. It really could fall within my top 10 or even top 5 this year.

On a side note, the beginning of Alive, along with some other moments, is it just me or does JSS sound a bit like Ray Alder?
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: erwinrafael on November 06, 2017, 09:43:27 AM
Lost in Oblivion is a missed opportunity. The opening riff by Ron Thal is killer...then the song did not build on that riff and just came back to it in the instrumental.
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: pcs90 on November 08, 2017, 12:00:20 PM
After a few weeks of this being out I still feel the same way I did when I first heard it. Bumblefoot is definitely the highlight, there are a few decent keyboard moments, but overall a boring album. The amount of material from this I would listen to over and over would easily total under 10 minutes, probably closer to 5. It just feels really uninspired. The instrumental sections are technical for the sake of being technical, most of Derek's solos are just runs with no emotion, Portnoy is bringing nothing new or interesting to the table...
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: Cyclopssss on November 09, 2017, 12:53:25 AM
My problem with hearing Portnoy's and Sherinian's playing is thinking: 'oh yeah, heard that before, oh, they're doing that again?' and more along those lines, which really isn't fair, but a natural reaction. I think it's a decent album, no more. A lot of the 'big' songs on the album detract my enjoyment because of those recognizable fills/riffs. But still I will give it a fair chance.
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: bill1971 on November 09, 2017, 08:51:21 AM
I think Derek needs to tweet something again, talk of the album itself is slowing down. After a week or so the only song I would want to hear again is Labyrinth, possibly God of the Sun. For those that love or really like the album, I am happy that there is a new great album for you. For me it just fell flat. Has a very been there done that to me.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: shadystraz360 on November 09, 2017, 10:39:58 AM
For some reason i couldnt post it here so i could only post somewhere public and share the link. Has anyone else read this article?

https://www.facebook.com/groups/265473153813560/permalink/519593841734822/
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: cramx3 on November 09, 2017, 10:58:03 AM
Yea now that some time has passed, I haven't come back to this at all.  Two other albums released the same day by debut bands (VUUR and Cyhra) have had me coming back, but this one, while I did enjoy it, just doesn't have the hooks to make me want to hear it again.  I'm sure I will listen again, just that I don't have the itching to do so.  It would be nice to see them announce some tour dates soon though.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Sycsa on November 09, 2017, 11:35:26 AM
So the cringe saga continues. Over the past few days, the official SoA FB page has been sharing pages of “unofficial fanclubs,” all of them having similar design, and a few dozen likes each (Indonesia has just 7 at this point.)

This all looks fishy, as if Derek himself set them up. He’s also probably commeting in the name of the official SoA page, saying stuff like “will it have breathy vocals?” when someone proposed to set up the UK branch. Sophisticated humor, what can I say. Another guy commented “Hmm, I think this is band is gonna cause an "astonishing " retirement,” which was liked by SoA. I unliked the page and I’m glad I didn’t buy the album.

https://www.facebook.com/SonsOfApollo1/posts/234152550451885
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: The Walrus on November 09, 2017, 11:43:14 AM
It's okay. Sons will be lucky to get through 2018. Quote me on this, Mike will be announcing another 'main band' or departure from Sons a year from now, or the band will split entirely, complete with a rant on nobody buying records anymore and the industry is shit etc.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Adami on November 09, 2017, 11:48:07 AM
It's okay. Sons will be lucky to get through 2018. Quote me on this, Mike will be announcing another 'main band' or departure from Sons a year from now, or the band will split entirely, complete with a rant on nobody buying records anymore and the industry is shit etc.

I don't really care for this band, but I feel confident they will have one more album in them. Possibly a slight lineup  change between now and then, but definitely a 2nd album and even a live DVD.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ganpondorodf on November 09, 2017, 11:55:13 AM
Is there even, in this day and age, any need for fan clubs?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Sycsa on November 09, 2017, 12:42:06 PM
Is there even, in this day and age, any need for fan clubs?
There isn't. And none of those so called "fan clubs" will amount to anything. This entire project reeks of delusion of grandeur, from "revolutionizing to genre" right up to this point.

This would have been a more fitting album cover:
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/18/Grandiose_delusions_cat_lion.pdf/page1-346px-Grandiose_delusions_cat_lion.pdf.jpg)
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: The Walrus on November 09, 2017, 12:43:52 PM
The Indonesia fan club is booming, though. 7 likes.  :lol
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Nekov on November 09, 2017, 12:44:46 PM
 :lol :lol
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: gzarruk on November 09, 2017, 12:49:20 PM
The Indonesia fan club is booming, though. 7 likes.  :lol

 :rollin
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Sycsa on November 09, 2017, 01:11:17 PM
The new kings of prog metal.
(https://i.imgur.com/l6vBvEg.jpg)
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bosk1 on November 09, 2017, 01:34:45 PM
For some reason i couldnt post it here so i could only post somewhere public and share the link. Has anyone else read this article?

https://www.facebook.com/groups/265473153813560/permalink/519593841734822/

Thanks for posting.  My reaction:  Yeah, more of the same abject lack of class we've seen from Derek in the last couple of months.  They managed to put together a "very good" collection of songs.  But honestly, Derek's and Mike's conduct leading up to this release makes me seriously regret my offers of support that I have given them over the years.  The backlash they have been getting is well-deserved.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: The Walrus on November 09, 2017, 01:57:53 PM
Quote from: Derek Sherinian
"... But I think most of his fans want to hear him playing prog metal, the genre he helped invent."

As Stadler says, and which I've taken a shine to, "mofo, please."
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: MirrorMask on November 09, 2017, 02:04:47 PM
For some reason i couldnt post it here so i could only post somewhere public and share the link. Has anyone else read this article?

https://www.facebook.com/groups/265473153813560/permalink/519593841734822/

"Dream Theater have sat on the top of the progressive metal thronr for the last 20 years and been completely unchalleged until now. But now this is the era of the Sons"

The scene (often used for a meme) of Morgan Freeman confronting the would be blackmailer in The Dark Knight comes to mind.

"So, you think Dream Theater are the undisputed champions of prog metal... and your plan is to challenge them with Psychotic Symphony? good luck with that"  :biggrin: :biggrin: :biggrin:

Sorry, as said elsewhere I actually do like the album, I don't love it to death but I enjoy it a lot, but this is the first thing that came into my mind while reading that  :D
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bosk1 on November 09, 2017, 02:07:51 PM
Yeah, I'm with you on that.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Dave_Manchester on November 09, 2017, 02:23:08 PM
Sorry if this has been addressed elsewhere in one of the threads, but has there been any word from the band on why they've left such a big gap between their album release and the start of touring? Or at least can someone with experience of the industry speculate why it may have been organized this way? Is this a usual practice among new bands with debut releases (for example to get a sense of how popular it is so they can gauge what kind of venues to book)? If scheduling conflicts is the reason (MP is doing Shattered Fortress in Australia soon), then would it have made better business sense to release the album next January, just before they hit the road? It just feels like the whole thing has gone to sleep now, the album received a fairly tepid reception (relative to its hype) and the band are just waiting around. Even Derek's jabs and braggadocio shtick have a half-hearted feel to them now. Seems strange they didn't start touring when the band was at least getting some coverage.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Madman Shepherd on November 09, 2017, 02:38:13 PM
Sorry if this has been addressed elsewhere in one of the threads, but has there been any word from the band on why they've left such a big gap between their album release and the start of touring? Or at least can someone with experience of the industry speculate why it may have been organized this way? Is this a usual practice among new bands with debut releases (for example to get a sense of how popular it is so they can gauge what kind of venues to book)? If scheduling conflicts is the reason (MP is doing Shattered Fortress in Australia soon), then would it have made better business sense to release the album next January, just before they hit the road? It just feels like the whole thing has gone to sleep now, the album received a fairly tepid reception (relative to its hype) and the band are just waiting around. Even Derek's jabs and braggadocio shtick have a half-hearted feel to them now. Seems strange they didn't start touring when the band was at least getting some coverage.

I brought this up before. Yeah shattered Fortress and also Jeff is doing Trans-Siberian Orchestra. Doesn't seem wise to wait to tour but they had no choice since they were juggling 87 other bands. Funny thing is, Portnoy has said that it has never been a problem juggling those 87 bands but I would say this is a pretty big problem.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: PetFish on November 09, 2017, 02:58:33 PM
The only thing left for MP and DS to do to completely destroy their legacies is to co-write the book "How to Completely Destroy your Legacy".
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bill1971 on November 09, 2017, 03:07:36 PM
Sorry if this has been addressed elsewhere in one of the threads, but has there been any word from the band on why they've left such a big gap between their album release and the start of touring? Or at least can someone with experience of the industry speculate why it may have been organized this way? Is this a usual practice among new bands with debut releases (for example to get a sense of how popular it is so they can gauge what kind of venues to book)? If scheduling conflicts is the reason (MP is doing Shattered Fortress in Australia soon), then would it have made better business sense to release the album next January, just before they hit the road? It just feels like the whole thing has gone to sleep now, the album received a fairly tepid reception (relative to its hype) and the band are just waiting around. Even Derek's jabs and braggadocio shtick have a half-hearted feel to them now. Seems strange they didn't start touring when the band was at least getting some coverage.

I brought this up before. Yeah shattered Fortress and also Jeff is doing Trans-Siberian Orchestra. Doesn't seem wise to wait to tour but they had no choice since they were juggling 87 other bands. Funny thing is, Portnoy has said that it has never been a problem juggling those 87 bands but I would say this is a pretty big problem.

I would say there is no way Jeff would skip TSO. That is a very good gig I would imagine and probably steady money for years to come. I am surprised MP has not tried to get involved in them.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bill1971 on November 09, 2017, 03:17:16 PM
It's okay. Sons will be lucky to get through 2018. Quote me on this, Mike will be announcing another 'main band' or departure from Sons a year from now, or the band will split entirely, complete with a rant on nobody buying records anymore and the industry is shit etc.

He wont say they broke up, he will say they are on hiatus or a break and will still count it as one of his 678 bands.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bill1971 on November 09, 2017, 03:22:11 PM
For some reason i couldnt post it here so i could only post somewhere public and share the link. Has anyone else read this article?

https://www.facebook.com/groups/265473153813560/permalink/519593841734822/

"Dream Theater have sat on the top of the progressive metal thronr for the last 20 years and been completely unchalleged until now. But now this is the era of the Sons"

The scene (often used for a meme) of Morgan Freeman confronting the would be blackmailer in The Dark Knight comes to mind.

"So, you think Dream Theater are the undisputed champions of prog metal... and your plan is to challenge them with Psychotic Symphony? good luck with that"  :biggrin: :biggrin: :biggrin:

Sorry, as said elsewhere I actually do like the album, I don't love it to death but I enjoy it a lot, but this is the first thing that came into my mind while reading that  :D

Please. Next to None has a better chance of dethroning DT simply by outlasting them.  The guys in Next to None are fairly young. Not a huge fan but at least they seem like cool kids.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: rumborak on November 09, 2017, 03:29:15 PM
Those guys are all in their 50s at this point. Nobody is dethroning anybody, unless we're talking about the porcelaine throne here.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: The Walrus on November 09, 2017, 03:30:06 PM
https://www.blabbermouth.net/news/mike-portnoy-was-miserable-playing-tiny-little-clubs-with-adrenaline-mob/

So, sorry for throwing more fuel on the fire, but I think this is legitimately interesting conversation fodder. Mike is quite obviously annoyed by this Blabbermouth article's headline, but check out these snippets re: Sons of Apollo's debut:

Quote
"We entered the studio March 1, and by March 10, the record was completely written and the basic tracks were done. It was fast. We banged it out in ten days. Not that we did a rush-job or anything, but it was all that was needed. ... Once that process was done — I don't want to make it sound like the whole record was done in ten days. It was just the writing, because then there were many, many months of overdubs and working on the vocals and the lyrics with Jeff Scott Soto [vocals], so it was an ongoing process.

The first part irks me, the second part also irks me because, well, you baked the cake in 10 days, yes - you just spent months adding the frosting and sprinkles. I would've rather seen the cake baked for months, with focus on the sprinkles at the end. This confirms exactly what I believed about the songwriting...

Quote
On whether he ever has a desire to play "random basement" gigs:

Mike: "No. I hate that stuff. [Laughs] There's been a couple situations through the last few years where I was playing tiny little clubs — I did one with METAL ALLEGIANCE, and I did a bunch with ADRENALINE MOB — and honestly, I was miserable. [Laughs]."

To that, he says if you read it in that context it isn't bad - but that's exactly what it sounds like. How is he going to feel playing to clubs of a few hundred people during the SoA tour? He IS going to be miserable, he's a 50 year old world famous rock drummer going from arenas and opening for Maiden to this... Check those sales figures at the bottom... ouch.

EDIT: He even commented on the article himself! Mike... stop....  :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm:
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ganpondorodf on November 09, 2017, 03:34:06 PM
Yeah I saw him causing a stink about it being taken out of context, which... Yeah.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bosk1 on November 09, 2017, 03:36:27 PM
Quote
"We entered the studio March 1, and by March 10, the record was completely written and the basic tracks were done. It was fast. We banged it out in ten days. Not that we did a rush-job or anything, but it was all that was needed. ... Once that process was done — I don't want to make it sound like the whole record was done in ten days. It was just the writing, because then there were many, many months of overdubs and working on the vocals and the lyrics with Jeff Scott Soto [vocals], so it was an ongoing process.

The first part irks me, the second part also irks me because, well, you baked the cake in 10 days, yes - you just spent months adding the frosting and sprinkles. I would've rather seen the cake baked for months, with focus on the sprinkles at the end. This confirms exactly what I believed about the songwriting...

I have never had a problem with that.  However long it took to write an album, if the songs are good, they are good.  I am not going to enjoy them less because they were written in a shorter amount of time than some fans think it should have taken.  That approach has worked for DT and Mike's projects in the past.  And if it works, great.  I'm not sure what there is to be "irked" about.

Quote
On whether he ever has a desire to play "random basement" gigs:

Mike: "No. I hate that stuff. [Laughs] There's been a couple situations through the last few years where I was playing tiny little clubs — I did one with METAL ALLEGIANCE, and I did a bunch with ADRENALINE MOB — and honestly, I was miserable. [Laughs]."

To that, he says if you read it in that context it isn't bad - but that's exactly what it sounds like. How is he going to feel playing to clubs of a few hundred people during the SoA tour? He IS going to be miserable, he's a 50 year old world famous rock drummer going from arenas and opening for Maiden to this... Check those sales figures at the bottom... ouch.

Yeah, unrealistic expectations on his part if he thinks he is going to be playing medium theaters or better anytime soon.  I don't see it happening.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ganpondorodf on November 09, 2017, 03:39:51 PM
This tour is a camera crew away from being a Spinal Tap sequel
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: The Walrus on November 09, 2017, 03:39:59 PM
bosk, that's fine. It doesn't bother me if other fans like that approach. Me? Not so much. I almost never spin Systematic Chaos, Black Clouds, I think I played Metal Allegiance literally one time and struggled to get through the whole thing. Flying Colors and Winery Dogs sound much more thought out to me. I cannot stand the get-in-and-out approach to writing music, so that's why I dislike it with Sons of Apollo so much, you can't just go in and throw shit at the wall to see what sticks and claim you're revolutionizing prog. Just my two cents. I like my prog metal worked on. (and if DT's done it for DT12 and ADTOE, that would explain why I dislike so many songs on those albums compared to earlier DT albums)
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: pcs90 on November 09, 2017, 03:41:44 PM
I have never had a problem with that.  However long it took to write an album, if the songs are good, they are good.  I am not going to enjoy them less because they were written in a shorter amount of time than some fans think it should have taken.  That approach has worked for DT and Mike's projects in the past.  And if it works, great.  I'm not sure what there is to be "irked" about.

That's the thing, many people don't feel that it works at all.
I really don't care if they wrote a song in 5 minutes or 5 months as long as it sounds good, but a lot of the stuff using MP's method of writing does not sound as good as it could have in my opinion.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bosk1 on November 09, 2017, 03:46:10 PM
and if DT's done it for DT12 and ADTOE, that would explain why I dislike so many songs on those albums compared to earlier DT albums)

How about Awake?  Train of Thought?  ...
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: The Walrus on November 09, 2017, 03:52:49 PM
and if DT's done it for DT12 and ADTOE, that would explain why I dislike so many songs on those albums compared to earlier DT albums)

How about Awake?  Train of Thought?  ...

Better DT albums, but I never listen to ToT anymore except Vacant. Awake is probably the exception, if it was written and recorded that quickly. It's not a blanket rule, there are of course exceptions, but mostly, I dislike the approach, it has rarely paid off for me by any band or musician. Although there are songs on Awake I dislike, too.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bosk1 on November 09, 2017, 03:58:52 PM
and if DT's done it for DT12 and ADTOE, that would explain why I dislike so many songs on those albums compared to earlier DT albums)

How about Awake?  Train of Thought?  ...

Better DT albums, but I never listen to ToT anymore except Vacant. Awake is probably the exception, if it was written and recorded that quickly. It's not a blanket rule, there are of course exceptions, but mostly, I dislike the approach, it has rarely paid off for me by any band or musician. Although there are songs on Awake I dislike, too.

I'm just saying, I bet there are a lot more instances of albums being written that way than you realize.  Virtually every DT album has been written that way other than WDADU, I&W, FII, and TA.  I think that, in general, people think that writing that way is more of a problem than it actually is.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: The Walrus on November 09, 2017, 04:04:42 PM
I know that, and that was going through my head as I typed it. But, I wrote that because generally, as I've researched albums I enjoy or don't enjoy, I've noticed the trend that quickly written albums are ones I dislike, or don't listen to much. There are exceptions.

But, specifically, with regards to MP's get-in-and-out approach in the later days of DT - SC was about the point I noticed that trend, and it's more apparent with each MP release, to me.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Peace and Love on November 09, 2017, 04:36:26 PM
Here's some fresh Del Fuvian Bravado (TM) for us:

Quote
Here is the breakdown of my "Alive" solo on @SonsOfApollo1 - you can hear that I downloaded my BallsWiz app!😜

https://twitter.com/DerekSherinian/status/928517844404277248

Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bosk1 on November 09, 2017, 04:38:12 PM
But, specifically, with regards to MP's get-in-and-out approach in the later days of DT - SC was about the point I noticed that trend, and it's more apparent with each MP release, to me.

Fair enough.  And although I personally disagree, you are definitely not alone in feeling a shift at that point in time.  I am not sure it is attributable to the writing process itself, but I understand where you are coming from nonetheless.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: KevShmev on November 09, 2017, 05:34:02 PM
What is more in Mike Portnoy's head: Blabbermouth or this forum? 

It's gotta be neck and neck!! :lol :lol
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Sycsa on November 09, 2017, 05:45:31 PM
Each South Park episode is made in 6 days, from writing it from scratch to animating it and doing the voices, they knock it all out in less than a week every time. Trey Parker said that time crunch is good for creativity, and if he had all the time in the world, he'd dick around with every episode infinitely longer, and in the end it would end up like 5% better. I think this approach was great for South Park (even though it went downhill the last couple of seasons or so), it kept the show fresh, current, and it maintained spontaneity.

The same principle could be applied to music. DT worked infinitely longer on FII than on SFAM, for instance. So I agree, whatever the approach is, it's not inherently good or bad.

However, the problem with many of Mike's projects (SoA is a prime example in that), is that it's obvious that it was a rushed, rough-and-ready effort. The songs are unoriginal and they're copy-pasted together, the lyircs are as generic as they get, Mike has his "bag of tricks" he randomly fills up the songs with. To me, it's obvious that the album would have benefited a lot if they had worked more on it (way more), especially since it's their first time playing together. The music has no real depth.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Adami on November 09, 2017, 05:47:51 PM
Person A being good at activity X doesn't mean person B is equally good at activity X.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Sycsa on November 09, 2017, 05:59:11 PM
Person A being good at activity X doesn't mean person B is equally good at activity X.
Or, in this case, if person A managed to pull it off a few times, it doesn't mean that he always can / that it's always the best approach for him.

Mike seems to think that this is the best approach to write songs, and it doesn't look like he wants to try something different. He's a numbers guy: "look at how many bands I'm in, and look at how little time it takes to write these albums." He talks about Yellow Matter Custard or Cygnus and The Sea Monsters as if they were real bands. I mean, this is his FB cover photo now, the list is inflated with DT demos & bootlegs. Definitely looks like there's a "quality vs. quantity" problem here.

(https://scontent.fotp1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/16997732_1597138603637109_1444290247675587165_n.jpg?oh=e60ef48ece57d5572d54f95622e138ff&oe=5AAAD756)
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ReaperKK on November 09, 2017, 07:23:18 PM
It's okay. Sons will be lucky to get through 2018. Quote me on this, Mike will be announcing another 'main band' or departure from Sons a year from now, or the band will split entirely, complete with a rant on nobody buying records anymore and the industry is shit etc.

I don't really care for this band, but I feel confident they will have one more album in them. Possibly a slight lineup  change between now and then, but definitely a 2nd album and even a live DVD.

Curious, if there was a line up change who do you think would leave?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Adami on November 09, 2017, 07:26:46 PM
It's okay. Sons will be lucky to get through 2018. Quote me on this, Mike will be announcing another 'main band' or departure from Sons a year from now, or the band will split entirely, complete with a rant on nobody buying records anymore and the industry is shit etc.

I don't really care for this band, but I feel confident they will have one more album in them. Possibly a slight lineup  change between now and then, but definitely a 2nd album and even a live DVD.

Curious, if there was a line up change who do you think would leave?

Good question. Definitely not Derek. I figured Ron was able to put up with Axle, so it'll be hard to make him leave. Sheehan? I dunno, possibly. My money would either be on JSS or MP oddly enough.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: gzarruk on November 09, 2017, 09:30:48 PM
However, the problem with many of Mike's projects (SoA is a prime example in that), is that it's obvious that it was a rushed, rough-and-ready effort. The songs are unoriginal and they're copy-pasted together, the lyircs are as generic as they get, Mike has his "bag of tricks" he randomly fills up the songs with. To me, it's obvious that the album would have benefited a lot if they had worked more on it (way more), especially since it's their first time playing together. The music has no real depth.

Nailed it.
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: Kwyjibo on November 09, 2017, 11:59:36 PM
I still think it's good but I don't know if it will have staying power. And I still think this is a lot of wasted opportunities, some more time spent composing, some more variety and you could have had a great disc.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Mladen on November 10, 2017, 12:16:18 AM
I remember finding out the first Flying Colors album was written in 10 days and I was immediately worried. I wasn't able to comprehend how in the world can musicians write music so quickly and be assured that they came up with fantastic music in such a short period of time. Then I listened to the album and loved it. It's odd. Sometimes music comes together very quickly, especially if there's good chemistry between musicians. There's no rule.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Kwyjibo on November 10, 2017, 01:11:34 AM
There is nothing inherently wrong when writing and recording an album in 10 days or even less.

The problem arises when I think the final product sounds rushed and I got that from the last Transatlantic record and even more so from Psychotic Symphony. But of course that is my personal perception, maybe I would still think it sounds rushed if they spend half a year on that record, and the flaws I'm hearing are the results of something else.

For instance God Of The Sun, while I like it, the different parts don't really fit together, so I would assume if this was given more work the transisitons would be better. But then Derek goes on record saying that this is the song he worked on the longest and this contradicts my ramblings.

But a lot of the record really sounds like something they can put together using their bag of tricks (admittedly a large bag) and therefore generic and rushed.



Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: MirrorMask on November 10, 2017, 01:34:21 AM
I agree that it's not a general rule that an album written fast is bad; I like too the Flying Colors debut for example. But the general rule works both ways: just because it CAN happen to write amazing music in 10 days, it doesn't mean it ALWAYS happen.

Of course every musician has a right to write in the way he feels most comfortable with, but sometimes trying out different things - or trying to figure out if the music created on the fly actually works - could help the music a lot more.

Anyway I don't fault Mike for not wanting to play small clubs - but I hope too he doesn't get too much unrealistic expectations from this band. I think of the places where they could play in Italy - no way they'd play the big sport venue where DT and Iron Maiden play, they'd be lucky to get a venue that can have a smaller stage (when the venue is packed, they use the big stage for Helloween, Avantasia, Blind Guardian, Alice Cooper) where I've seen Shadow Gallery and Iced Earth. Otherwise they could get a slightly smaller venue, but very nice with a cool stage, where British Lion and Edguy played (just dropping names to give an idea of the capacity).
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: The Walrus on November 10, 2017, 06:33:16 AM
Saw that Derek liked this and other similar comments... "Bullshit. This singer actually has a pair of balls. Unlike whiny ass JLB"

I've never wished failure upon any band before, but I hope Sons sinks and teaches Derek something...
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: TAC on November 10, 2017, 06:34:33 AM
WOW!
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: The Walrus on November 10, 2017, 06:54:19 AM
Del Fuvian bravado, Sherinianisms... Mike used to be one of my favorite musicians, why doesn't he stand up for the guy who sang his songs for 25 years??
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Nekov on November 10, 2017, 07:02:38 AM
Well, for what I've read around here Mike's in no good terms with JLB, has refered to him a Prima Donna during an interview, not really mentioning him but we all got that he was talking about him, so it's no suprise to me that he's not standing up for him.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: SwedishGoose on November 10, 2017, 07:06:45 AM
Mike did not stand up for James while he was in the band so I do not expect him to stand up for him now...
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: emtee on November 10, 2017, 07:10:38 AM
Having been such a huge fan of Mike for SO long - he inspired me to play better, loved the fans and went the extra mile - this is
honestly difficult for me. While he is not actually the one saying or 'liking' these types of comments he is not speaking out against
them in the name of juvenile behavior, therefore he is guilty by association. I truly don't want the end of his career to be sad
free fall into obscurity. I tried to look the other way multiple times during this saga but as the band moves forward they're not letting
this feud with DT go. So as of now I'm off the MP train. Not just SoA. I'm off the train all the way. If he decides to take the high road
and make this right I'll jump back on. Mike - if you're reading this, I really do respect and admire you, tremendously, but you're better than this. You need to rise above it.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: mikeyd23 on November 10, 2017, 07:13:07 AM
Mike did not stand up for James while he was in the band so I do not expect him to stand up for him now...

Exactly, MP's not going to stand up for an ex-band mate that he didn't stand up for when they were band mates.

As to the MP article on BM - he's in for a rude awakening if he doesn't want to play small clubs, I can't see this band playing anything bigger in most US markets. We'll see how long he lasts doing that. Honestly, (and they won't do this) they would be wise to try to get an opening slot for a bigger rock artist and get a steady, wide spread tour. I can't see MP doing that though.

As to the discussion about the album being written quickly - like others have said, there are no rules in song writing. Sometimes great albums are written quickly, sometimes great albums take time. The problem I, and many others, seem to have with the album is that to our ears it literally sounds rushed, like they didn't spend enough time on it. If others don't hear that, that's totally cool! But many do.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Stadler on November 10, 2017, 07:13:18 AM
Quote
On whether he ever has a desire to play "random basement" gigs:

Mike: "No. I hate that stuff. [Laughs] There's been a couple situations through the last few years where I was playing tiny little clubs — I did one with METAL ALLEGIANCE, and I did a bunch with ADRENALINE MOB — and honestly, I was miserable. [Laughs]."

To that, he says if you read it in that context it isn't bad - but that's exactly what it sounds like. How is he going to feel playing to clubs of a few hundred people during the SoA tour? He IS going to be miserable, he's a 50 year old world famous rock drummer going from arenas and opening for Maiden to this... Check those sales figures at the bottom... ouch.

EDIT: He even commented on the article himself! Mike... stop....  :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm:

What are we considering "random basement gigs".  I never heard that term before.   But Metal Allegiance played Toad's Place, which while being a small club (700, tops) and pretty low budget, is hardly a "random basement gig".   The flippin' Stones played there, as did Dylan.   But the theater where I saw The Winery Dogs and Neal Morse, while much nicer, is still only 500 people. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: The Walrus on November 10, 2017, 07:15:21 AM
Having been such a huge fan of Mike for SO long - he inspired me to play better, loved the fans and went the extra mile - this is
honestly difficult for me. While he is not actually the one saying or 'liking' these types of comments he is not speaking out against
them in the name of juvenile behavior, therefore he is guilty by association. I truly don't want the end of his career to be sad
free fall into obscurity. I tried to look the other way multiple times during this saga but as the band moves forward they're not letting
this feud with DT go. So as of now I'm off the MP train. Not just SoA. I'm off the train all the way. If he decides to take the high road
and make this right I'll jump back on. Mike - if you're reading this, I really do respect and admire you, tremendously, but you're better than this. You need to rise above it.

Bingo... His ego is too big to allow him to apologize for anything other than giving 'blood, sweat, and tears for the fans.' To quote a deeper GnR cut... Sweetheart, don't make me laugh, you're gettin' too big for your pants and I think maybe you should cut out while you can.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Madman Shepherd on November 10, 2017, 08:26:44 AM
Saw that Derek liked this and other similar comments... "Bullshit. This singer actually has a pair of balls. Unlike whiny ass JLB"

I've never wished failure upon any band before, but I hope Sons sinks and teaches Derek something...

This is funny because Mike even admitted that James and John Myung were especially hesitant when they wanted to kick Derek out. I don't doubt that Mike was closer with Derek than anybody else. They had very similar personalities. But by his own admission James and John really took a pause about the prospect. I vaguely remember a bootleg when they introduced Jordan as the new keyboardist and James said something along the lines of "and hopefully our last lineup change."  Kind of an odd thing to say but it showed James was pretty uncomfortable with it. Oh well I guess. James has been nominated for two Grammy's and plays to packed theaters every night. Doubtful SoA will even reach Winery Dogs success which was moderate at best.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: MirrorMask on November 10, 2017, 08:28:50 AM
James wrote "hopefully the last change" even in the liner notes for his first solo album. Probably it's just a general comment on how it's always painful to part ways with a band member, I don't think it was specifically tailored to the Derek situation.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Stadler on November 10, 2017, 08:55:26 AM
Saw that Derek liked this and other similar comments... "Bullshit. This singer actually has a pair of balls. Unlike whiny ass JLB"

I've never wished failure upon any band before, but I hope Sons sinks and teaches Derek something...

This is funny because Mike even admitted that James and John Myung were especially hesitant when they wanted to kick Derek out. I don't doubt that Mike was closer with Derek than anybody else. They had very similar personalities. But by his own admission James and John really took a pause about the prospect. I vaguely remember a bootleg when they introduced Jordan as the new keyboardist and James said something along the lines of "and hopefully our last lineup change."  Kind of an odd thing to say but it showed James was pretty uncomfortable with it. Oh well I guess. James has been nominated for two Grammy's and plays to packed theaters every night. Doubtful SoA will even reach Winery Dogs success which was moderate at best.


Whoa whoa whoa.   JAMES wasn't nominated, DT was.   And I can't speak for every show, nor this particular leg of this tour, but at least for the second half of The Astonishing tour, "packed" is being kind. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Nekov on November 10, 2017, 09:09:58 AM
Saw that Derek liked this and other similar comments... "Bullshit. This singer actually has a pair of balls. Unlike whiny ass JLB"

I've never wished failure upon any band before, but I hope Sons sinks and teaches Derek something...

This is funny because Mike even admitted that James and John Myung were especially hesitant when they wanted to kick Derek out. I don't doubt that Mike was closer with Derek than anybody else. They had very similar personalities. But by his own admission James and John really took a pause about the prospect. I vaguely remember a bootleg when they introduced Jordan as the new keyboardist and James said something along the lines of "and hopefully our last lineup change."  Kind of an odd thing to say but it showed James was pretty uncomfortable with it. Oh well I guess. James has been nominated for two Grammy's and plays to packed theaters every night. Doubtful SoA will even reach Winery Dogs success which was moderate at best.


Whoa whoa whoa.   JAMES wasn't nominated, DT was.   And I can't speak for every show, nor this particular leg of this tour, but at least for the second half of The Astonishing tour, "packed" is being kind.

That shouldn't be a meassure. The issue with the TA tour was that people who didn't like the album weren't going to pay to see the band play the full album live so it's quite understandable that the audience wasn't as big. I'm pretty sure they're getting tons of fans with the I&W one.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: gzarruk on November 10, 2017, 09:12:38 AM
Saw that Derek liked this and other similar comments... "Bullshit. This singer actually has a pair of balls. Unlike whiny ass JLB"

I've never wished failure upon any band before, but I hope Sons sinks and teaches Derek something...

This is funny because Mike even admitted that James and John Myung were especially hesitant when they wanted to kick Derek out. I don't doubt that Mike was closer with Derek than anybody else. They had very similar personalities. But by his own admission James and John really took a pause about the prospect. I vaguely remember a bootleg when they introduced Jordan as the new keyboardist and James said something along the lines of "and hopefully our last lineup change."  Kind of an odd thing to say but it showed James was pretty uncomfortable with it. Oh well I guess. James has been nominated for two Grammy's and plays to packed theaters every night. Doubtful SoA will even reach Winery Dogs success which was moderate at best.


Whoa whoa whoa.   JAMES wasn't nominated, DT was.   And I can't speak for every show, nor this particular leg of this tour, but at least for the second half of The Astonishing tour in the US, "packed" is being kind.

Fixed it.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Stadler on November 10, 2017, 09:17:56 AM
Saw that Derek liked this and other similar comments... "Bullshit. This singer actually has a pair of balls. Unlike whiny ass JLB"

I've never wished failure upon any band before, but I hope Sons sinks and teaches Derek something...

This is funny because Mike even admitted that James and John Myung were especially hesitant when they wanted to kick Derek out. I don't doubt that Mike was closer with Derek than anybody else. They had very similar personalities. But by his own admission James and John really took a pause about the prospect. I vaguely remember a bootleg when they introduced Jordan as the new keyboardist and James said something along the lines of "and hopefully our last lineup change."  Kind of an odd thing to say but it showed James was pretty uncomfortable with it. Oh well I guess. James has been nominated for two Grammy's and plays to packed theaters every night. Doubtful SoA will even reach Winery Dogs success which was moderate at best.


Whoa whoa whoa.   JAMES wasn't nominated, DT was.   And I can't speak for every show, nor this particular leg of this tour, but at least for the second half of The Astonishing tour, "packed" is being kind.

That shouldn't be a meassure. The issue with the TA tour was that people who didn't like the album weren't going to pay to see the band play the full album live so it's quite understandable that the audience wasn't as big. I'm pretty sure they're getting tons of fans with the I&W one.

Maybe, maybe not.  And if they do, more power to 'em; I'd be seeing the Boston show if I wasn't traveling for work.   I'm just noting that we don't need to resort to hyperbole to make the point here.  Derek - to the extent you think he's digging a hole - is doing just fine by himself in that effort. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on November 10, 2017, 10:04:37 AM
Saw that Derek liked this and other similar comments... "Bullshit. This singer actually has a pair of balls. Unlike whiny ass JLB"

I've never wished failure upon any band before, but I hope Sons sinks and teaches Derek something...

This is funny because Mike even admitted that James and John Myung were especially hesitant when they wanted to kick Derek out. I don't doubt that Mike was closer with Derek than anybody else. They had very similar personalities. But by his own admission James and John really took a pause about the prospect. I vaguely remember a bootleg when they introduced Jordan as the new keyboardist and James said something along the lines of "and hopefully our last lineup change."  Kind of an odd thing to say but it showed James was pretty uncomfortable with it. Oh well I guess. James has been nominated for two Grammy's and plays to packed theaters every night. Doubtful SoA will even reach Winery Dogs success which was moderate at best.


Whoa whoa whoa.   JAMES wasn't nominated, DT was.   And I can't speak for every show, nor this particular leg of this tour, but at least for the second half of The Astonishing tour, "packed" is being kind.

That shouldn't be a meassure. The issue with the TA tour was that people who didn't like the album weren't going to pay to see the band play the full album live so it's quite understandable that the audience wasn't as big. I'm pretty sure they're getting tons of fans with the I&W one.

There's definitely a better turn out for the I&W tour vs. TA.  Judging by the ticket sales for the shows I am going to, it's almost light and day difference. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Madman Shepherd on November 10, 2017, 12:01:56 PM
James wrote "hopefully the last change" even in the liner notes for his first solo album. Probably it's just a general comment on how it's always painful to part ways with a band member, I don't think it was specifically tailored to the Derek situation.

I think thats what I was thinking of.  Yes, I think he was referring to that in general.  I don't think he was particularly close with Derek but I think that statement along with the fact that in Lifting Shadows Mike specifically said John Myung and James were especially hesitant about agreeing to kick Derek out shows that Derek is being especially turd-like by being a dick to James.  I also don't doubt that Derek will be thinking about that while he is playing to 500 people while James is playing to 2000...or that Derek is reading this right now.  Hi Derek!




Whoa whoa whoa.   JAMES wasn't nominated, DT was.   And I can't speak for every show, nor this particular leg of this tour, but at least for the second half of The Astonishing tour, "packed" is being kind. 

...and who does vocals for Dream Theater?  Not Derek, thank god.  Also, the show last Saturday was packed.  Astonishing first leg was packed. 

I also don't doubt that SoA shows will be packed....because the venues they play in will probably only hold a couple hundred people. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: The Walrus on November 10, 2017, 12:15:44 PM
Apparently all the weight Derek lost went straight to his head.  :lol
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: gzarruk on November 10, 2017, 12:19:09 PM
Apparently all the weight Derek lost went straight to his head.  :lol

It definitely didn’t go to his keyboard skills :biggrin:
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Madman Shepherd on November 10, 2017, 12:22:11 PM
It's easy to lose weight when you boycott burger flippers.  He can have his garden grown kale and I'll keep my cheeseburgers. 

BTW, I went to Five Guys and I saw more people buying burgers than I'm sure I'll see at a Sons of Apollo show. 

ok, ok...I don't know why I'm feeling feisty today.  I actually enjoyed the SoA album more than the average SoA critic. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Destiny Of Chaos on November 10, 2017, 12:55:35 PM
Haters can keep on hating. I can't stop spinning this album. Mike Portnoy never ceases to amaze. His drumming in OM alone is among the best that I've ever heard.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Madman Shepherd on November 10, 2017, 01:03:22 PM
Haters can keep on hating.

I'm sure James said the same thing when he was nominated for his second Grammy. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: SwedishGoose on November 10, 2017, 01:04:24 PM
Haters can keep on hating. I can't stop spinning this album. Mike Portnoy never ceases to amaze. His drumming in OM alone is among the best that I've ever heard.

It"s not that we are haters it's just that a lot of us feel this album cis very bland and uninspired. There are some moments but too few and too far apart.... the album would have benefitted from the band stoppning and taking the time to listen to what they created with fresh ears and then rewrite parts that did not work as well

'Fanboys are gonna fanboy' 😉
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Lowdz on November 10, 2017, 01:18:39 PM
Person A being good at activity X doesn't mean person B is equally good at activity X.
Or, in this case, if person A managed to pull it off a few times, it doesn't mean that he always can / that it's always the best approach for him.

Mike seems to think that this is the best approach to write songs, and it doesn't look like he wants to try something different. He's a numbers guy: "look at how many bands I'm in, and look at how little time it takes to write these albums." He talks about Yellow Matter Custard or Cygnus and The Sea Monsters as if they were real bands. I mean, this is his FB cover photo now, the list is inflated with DT demos & bootlegs. Definitely looks like there's a "quality vs. quantity" problem here.

(https://scontent.fotp1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/16997732_1597138603637109_1444290247675587165_n.jpg?oh=e60ef48ece57d5572d54f95622e138ff&oe=5AAAD756)

Would only be a fraction of the size without all the live stuff - like after every album...
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Stadler on November 10, 2017, 01:25:36 PM
Haters can keep on hating. I can't stop spinning this album. Mike Portnoy never ceases to amaze. His drumming in OM alone is among the best that I've ever heard.

It"s not that we are haters it's just that a lot of us feel this album cis very bland and uninspired. There are some moments but too few and too far apart.... the album would have benefitted from the band stoppning and taking the time to listen to what they created with fresh ears and then rewrite parts that did not work as well

'Fanboys are gonna fanboy' 😉

So why are we focused on Derek's weight?  Or how that weight impacts his "keyboard skills"?  If Derek made a comment about Jordan's being bald, you'd have a cow. 

Oh, and what Grammy was James nominated for? I missed that.  I know Dream Theater was nominated for the best Heavy Metal/Hard Rock performance for "On The Backs Of Angels", written by Petrucci, Rudess, and Myung, and for "The Enemy Inside", lyrics written by Petrucci, and music credited to "Dream Theater", but I don't remember James getting nominated on his own. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: The Walrus on November 10, 2017, 01:28:34 PM
I was hoping the laugh icon at the end would indicate that line was a joke, Stadler. I'm also not in a band with any of the mentioned parties... ease up. :)
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: gzarruk on November 10, 2017, 01:30:09 PM
Person A being good at activity X doesn't mean person B is equally good at activity X.
Or, in this case, if person A managed to pull it off a few times, it doesn't mean that he always can / that it's always the best approach for him.

Mike seems to think that this is the best approach to write songs, and it doesn't look like he wants to try something different. He's a numbers guy: "look at how many bands I'm in, and look at how little time it takes to write these albums." He talks about Yellow Matter Custard or Cygnus and The Sea Monsters as if they were real bands. I mean, this is his FB cover photo now, the list is inflated with DT demos & bootlegs. Definitely looks like there's a "quality vs. quantity" problem here.

(https://scontent.fotp1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/16997732_1597138603637109_1444290247675587165_n.jpg?oh=e60ef48ece57d5572d54f95622e138ff&oe=5AAAD756)

Would only be a fraction of the size without all the live stuff - like after every album...

Don't forget the official bootlegs, demos and cover albums.

EDIT: I'm counting 15 cover albums in there, that's a lot, and completely pointless imo.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Madman Shepherd on November 10, 2017, 02:04:01 PM
Haters can keep on hating. I can't stop spinning this album. Mike Portnoy never ceases to amaze. His drumming in OM alone is among the best that I've ever heard.

It"s not that we are haters it's just that a lot of us feel this album cis very bland and uninspired. There are some moments but too few and too far apart.... the album would have benefitted from the band stoppning and taking the time to listen to what they created with fresh ears and then rewrite parts that did not work as well

'Fanboys are gonna fanboy' 😉

So why are we focused on Derek's weight?  Or how that weight impacts his "keyboard skills"?  If Derek made a comment about Jordan's being bald, you'd have a cow. 

Oh, and what Grammy was James nominated for? I missed that.  I know Dream Theater was nominated for the best Heavy Metal/Hard Rock performance for "On The Backs Of Angels", written by Petrucci, Rudess, and Myung, and for "The Enemy Inside", lyrics written by Petrucci, and music credited to "Dream Theater", but I don't remember James getting nominated on his own.

You're right. Derek was on vocals. My bad.

Derek also bragged about losing a bunch of weight. On it's own that's a cool accomplishment. No one made a peep when he weighed more. In fact nobody cared or even noticed. So no nobody would have a cow. Just having fun with his words . He says some shitty things, we say some shitty things...and then he lives with the fact that he is now in a band with a guy that kicked him out of a band that has been nominated for a couple Grammy awards without either of them.

Had that band won a man named James LaBrie would have got his very own Grammy to display.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Dave_Manchester on November 10, 2017, 02:07:43 PM
I'm late to the discussion about length of time writing and recording an album, but for me, everything depends on the composers involved. Some composers can take a year to write something bland, and others need just a few days to produce a work of genius. Music history is littered with examples of masterpieces which were written in the white heat of inspiration (Mozart's diaries suggest some of his symphonies and piano concertoes were written in a matter of days). Regarding rock music, the first Liquid Tension Experiment was written in about a week, wasn't it? And they came up with music like Paradigm Shift and Universal Mind. The key for me is that LTE had Rudess and Petrucci composing, and it seems like music just effortlessly flows from them both. Neal Morse is similar. He and Stolt were the main composers of The Whirlwind (a brilliant album), and that was written in about a week. But they are both incredibly fecund composers, if fact they're infamous for how prolific they both are. They can do that kind of thing.

It's only my personal taste and opinion, but I just don't feel SoA has a composer capable of producing great music so swiftly. They are players firstly, not writers. I know that many here like or love the album, and that's great, but to me there's a laboured and pieced-together feel to most of it, with the only real inspiration coming on God of the Sun. Mike Portnoy is an incredibly talented drummer, but it has been his great fortune to cross paths with the likes of John Petrucci, Neal Morse, Kevin Moore and Jordan Rudess and have them write music for him to 'arrange'. An 'arranger' (the role he claims for himself) is only as good as the material being handed to him.

Long story short, great albums can be made in a few days (and have been), but only when the composers involved are first-rate. Just my opinion.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: gzarruk on November 10, 2017, 02:09:53 PM
I'm late to the discussion about length of time writing and recording an album, but for me, everything depends on the composers involved. Some composers can take a year to write something bland, and others need just a few days to produce a work of genius. Music history is littered with examples of masterpieces which were written in the white heat of inspiration (Mozart's diaries suggest some of his symphonies and piano concertoes were written in a matter of days). Regarding rock music, the first Liquid Tension Experiment was written in about a week, wasn't it? And they came up with music like Paradigm Shift and Universal Mind. The key for me is that LTE had Rudess and Petrucci composing, and it seems like music just effortlessly flows from them both. Neal Morse is similar. He and Stolt were the main composers of The Whirlwind (a brilliant album), and that was written in about a week. But they are both incredibly fecund composers, if fact they're infamous for how prolific they both are. They can do that kind of thing.

It's only my personal taste and opinion, but I just don't feel SoA has a composer capable of producing great music so swiftly. They are players firstly, not writers. I know that many here like or love the album, and that's great, but to me there's a laboured and pieced-together feel to most of it, with the only real inspiration coming on God of the Sun. Mike Portnoy is an incredibly talented drummer, but it has been his great fortune to cross paths with the likes of John Petrucci, Neal Morse, Kevin Moore and Jordan Rudess and have them write music for him to 'arrange'. An 'arranger' (the role he claims for himself) is only as good as the material being handed to him.

Long story short, great albums can be made in a few days (and have been), but only when the composers involved are first-rate. Just my opinion.

Great post.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Adami on November 10, 2017, 02:17:20 PM
Haters can keep on hating. I can't stop spinning this album. Mike Portnoy never ceases to amaze. His drumming in OM alone is among the best that I've ever heard.

It"s not that we are haters it's just that a lot of us feel this album cis very bland and uninspired. There are some moments but too few and too far apart.... the album would have benefitted from the band stoppning and taking the time to listen to what they created with fresh ears and then rewrite parts that did not work as well

'Fanboys are gonna fanboy' 😉

So why are we focused on Derek's weight?  Or how that weight impacts his "keyboard skills"?  If Derek made a comment about Jordan's being bald, you'd have a cow. 


Totally agree. The personal retorts are no better, and often worse than Derek’s original idiotic statements.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: The Walrus on November 10, 2017, 02:22:06 PM
I prefer to call it Katteloxian bravado.

Seriously, I won't deny it's a bit immature, but I'm a nobody. :lol Here's a genuine apology from me for a moment of childishness.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bill1971 on November 10, 2017, 02:25:57 PM
I wonder if Derek knows that James and Myung were the most hesitant to let him go? I'm sure MP spun it to him being the most hesitant and Derek believed him. Either that or Derek knows it and is just capitalizing on what fame MP has left. He knows MP has friends in the business and knows how to promote himself.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: MirrorMask on November 10, 2017, 02:43:36 PM
He was let go for the keyboard player Petrucci and Portnoy worked right before the change with. If we fans know it, there's no way in hell that he doesn't know that it was the two persone that worked with his replacement to have made the decision.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Madman Shepherd on November 10, 2017, 02:59:12 PM
Haters can keep on hating. I can't stop spinning this album. Mike Portnoy never ceases to amaze. His drumming in OM alone is among the best that I've ever heard.

It"s not that we are haters it's just that a lot of us feel this album cis very bland and uninspired. There are some moments but too few and too far apart.... the album would have benefitted from the band stoppning and taking the time to listen to what they created with fresh ears and then rewrite parts that did not work as well

'Fanboys are gonna fanboy' 😉

So why are we focused on Derek's weight?  Or how that weight impacts his "keyboard skills"?  If Derek made a comment about Jordan's being bald, you'd have a cow. 


Totally agree. The personal retorts are no better, and often worse than Derek’s original idiotic statements.

Often worse?

Hardly.  :tdwn
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Adami on November 10, 2017, 03:06:09 PM
You're right. Often was the wrong word. Occasionally worse.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Madman Shepherd on November 10, 2017, 03:19:45 PM
 :tup
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Destiny Of Chaos on November 10, 2017, 03:29:21 PM
I think it's hillarious that being nominated for Grammies keeps being brought up as if that's some sort of measuring stick of prog metal greatness. Mike's drumming awards are much more impressive than James' slice of those 2 nominations.....
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Adami on November 10, 2017, 03:35:09 PM
I think it's hillarious that being nominated for Grammies keeps being brought up as if that's some sort of measuring stick of prog metal greatness. Mike's drumming awards are much more impressive than James' slice of those 2 nominations.....

I'm pretty sure none of them are terribly impressive honestly.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: gzarruk on November 10, 2017, 03:40:23 PM
I think it's hillarious that being nominated for Grammies keeps being brought up as if that's some sort of measuring stick of prog metal greatness. Mike's drumming awards are much more impressive than James' slice of those 2 nominations.....

I'm pretty sure none of them are terribly impressive honestly.

Agree. Also, no one is dissing Mike's drumming. The only complaint about his playing here has been his tired and repeated use of the same bag of tricks.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Adami on November 10, 2017, 03:41:25 PM
Oh yea. MP is probably my biggest influence on drums. He just sounds like a guy trying to sound like MP now. His skills are fine.

To be fair, I have very similar complaints about a ton of other people.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Madman Shepherd on November 10, 2017, 03:49:20 PM
I think it's hillarious that being nominated for Grammies keeps being brought up as if that's some sort of measuring stick of prog metal greatness. Mike's drumming awards are much more impressive than James' slice of those 2 nominations.....

I would say consistently performing in front of 2-3000 people is much more impressive than being nominated for two Grammys.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Destiny Of Chaos on November 10, 2017, 04:17:56 PM
I think it's hillarious that being nominated for Grammies keeps being brought up as if that's some sort of measuring stick of prog metal greatness. Mike's drumming awards are much more impressive than James' slice of those 2 nominations.....

I would say consistently performing in front of 2-3000 people is much more impressive than being nominated for two Grammys.

You'd love Justin Bieber then. He plays in front of much larger crowds than that.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Adami on November 10, 2017, 04:22:56 PM
What the hell is going on in this thread?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Dave_Manchester on November 10, 2017, 04:24:54 PM
I think it's hillarious that being nominated for Grammies keeps being brought up as if that's some sort of measuring stick of prog metal greatness. Mike's drumming awards are much more impressive than James' slice of those 2 nominations.....

I would say consistently performing in front of 2-3000 people is much more impressive than being nominated for two Grammys.

You'd love Justin Bieber then. He plays in front of much larger crowds than that.

Not only that but he has over 200 awards, dwarfing Mike Portnoy's number:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_awards_and_nominations_received_by_Justin_Bieber
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Dave_Manchester on November 10, 2017, 04:26:43 PM
What the hell is going on in this thread?

A discussion about which utterly meaningless advertising-agency-masquerading-as-an-award-ceremony is more prestigious than another.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: SjundeInseglet on November 10, 2017, 04:46:17 PM
I think it's hillarious that being nominated for Grammies keeps being brought up as if that's some sort of measuring stick of prog metal greatness. Mike's drumming awards are much more impressive than James' slice of those 2 nominations.....

I would say consistently performing in front of 2-3000 people is much more impressive than being nominated for two Grammys.

Yes... and do they do playing a style of music which admitidly hasn't been exactly overly popular in years. That is what makes it so impressive... not sure why Justin Bieber and his brand of chewing gum pop music were even mentioned in this thead.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: pcs90 on November 10, 2017, 04:55:56 PM
The arguments on both sides are getting so silly.
Number of awards generally means nothing nowadays.
If you believe the way DS and MP are presenting themselves is good, more power to you, but I genuinely don't see how anyone can justify it at this point.
There are a few members who will justify anything MP does or doesn't do no matter how ridiculous it may be. Of course this is not limited to MP, people can do this with anyone they're a fan of and/or support, whether in music or elsewhere. That's all this is. It's a waste of time trying to argue. :lol
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Anguyen92 on November 10, 2017, 05:10:45 PM
Some people just simply do not like the album, but do like the players involved in it and some listeners feel that they can do better.  It can be a thing that can happen.  It does not make the listeners "haters." People should not have that sort of opinion then?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Destiny Of Chaos on November 10, 2017, 05:35:51 PM
Some people just simply do not like the album, but do like the players involved in it and some listeners feel that they can do better.  It can be a thing that can happen.  It does not make the listeners "haters." People should not have that sort of opinion then?

If a fan of prog rock/prog metal can listen to this album and genuinely not like it for what it is as music, then that's not who I had in mind when I brought up the word haters.

Who I had in mind are those who are letting things not having to do with the music itself shape their opinion on the music. And I've seen plenty of both on the forum.



I think it's hillarious that being nominated for Grammies keeps being brought up as if that's some sort of measuring stick of prog metal greatness. Mike's drumming awards are much more impressive than James' slice of those 2 nominations.....

I would say consistently performing in front of 2-3000 people is much more impressive than being nominated for two Grammys.

It's undeniable that Mike is a big reason why DT has grown as a band over time and played to larger and  more prestigious venues. Hard to say what sort of crowds James would singing for if the roles were reversed.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: KevShmev on November 10, 2017, 05:37:38 PM
Looks like Portnoy is now logging in under the Destiny of Chaos handle instead of Stadler.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Destiny Of Chaos on November 10, 2017, 05:42:49 PM
Looks like Portnoy is now logging in under the Destiny of Chaos handle instead of Stadler.

Nah, that was ChaosSystem who would capitalize words at random.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: TAC on November 10, 2017, 05:48:27 PM
Chaossystem would be posting random SOA setlists that make no sense.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Destiny Of Chaos on November 10, 2017, 05:57:43 PM
Chaossystem would be posting random SOA setlists that make no sense.

True that! He'd probably make the case for Figaro's Whore for the encore.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Madman Shepherd on November 10, 2017, 06:02:24 PM
To be fair, I don't care about Grammys OR crowd size.  I actually just tracked down a CD by a band that is so unpopular over here they have never even toured the states.  I doubt they even pressed more than 500 CDs of their latest which was nearly impossible to find. Not even Amazon, Discogs, etc had even one copy. 

But I do think Grammys and playing to thousands of people matter to a dude obsessed with reclaiming a throne that was never his. 

Some people just simply do not like the album, but do like the players involved in it and some listeners feel that they can do better.  It can be a thing that can happen.  It does not make the listeners "haters." People should not have that sort of opinion then?

If a fan of prog rock/prog metal can listen to this album and genuinely not like it for what it is as music, then that's not who I had in mind when I brought up the word haters.

Who I had in mind are those who are letting things not having to do with the music itself shape their opinion on the music. And I've seen plenty of both on the forum.



I think it's hillarious that being nominated for Grammies keeps being brought up as if that's some sort of measuring stick of prog metal greatness. Mike's drumming awards are much more impressive than James' slice of those 2 nominations.....

I would say consistently performing in front of 2-3000 people is much more impressive than being nominated for two Grammys.

It's undeniable that Mike is a big reason why DT has grown as a band over time and played to larger and  more prestigious venues. Hard to say what sort of crowds James would singing for if the roles were reversed.

Except DT's crowds have remained relatively consistent since Mike left.  There was a slight dip in the second leg of the Astonishing tour (that even I didnt bother going to) but other than that I think Mike's popularity is a little over stated.  Maybe we can check on those Adrenaline Mob numbers to see what influence he really had. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: KevShmev on November 10, 2017, 06:06:41 PM
Exactly.  It's easy to wonder how far JLB would have gotten without Dream Theater, and it's even easier to wonder how far Portnoy would have gotten had he not lucked out and ended up in a band with good primary songwriters (of which he is not).  Without Dream Theater, he never makes the connection he did to do everything else he has done since, and without Petrucci, Moore and Myung, he never gets off the ground.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: TAC on November 10, 2017, 06:11:14 PM
I think what probably pisses off Mike is that he probably owes more to JLB than the other way around. There was no way he could let James go.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: KevShmev on November 10, 2017, 06:15:02 PM
I think what probably pisses off Mike is that he probably owes more to JLB than the other way around. There was no way he could let James go.

True.  Pull Me Under put the band on the map, and let's see...the vocal melodies in that were written by Kevin Moore and sung by James LaBrie.  That probably sticks in his craw.  As great as the music is in that song, the hook to the masses was in the vocals and vocal melodies, courtesy of two guys he seems to have a lot of disdain for.  Oh, the irony.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Sycsa on November 10, 2017, 06:18:07 PM
Yeah, it’s a reasonable theory that without JLB, I&W would have turned out differently and DT might never have taken off.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ReaperKK on November 10, 2017, 06:25:14 PM
Chaossystem would be posting random SOA setlists that make no sense.

True that! He'd probably make the case for Figaro's Whore for the encore.

Did Chaossystems posts get wiped?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Madman Shepherd on November 10, 2017, 07:35:09 PM
I think what probably pisses off Mike is that he probably owes more to JLB than the other way around. There was no way he could let James go.

True.  Pull Me Under put the band on the map, and let's see...the vocal melodies in that were written by Kevin Moore and sung by James LaBrie.  That probably sticks in his craw.  As great as the music is in that song, the hook to the masses was in the vocals and vocal melodies, courtesy of two guys he seems to have a lot of disdain for.  Oh, the irony.

Never thought of it that way.  I mean, they went through how many vocalists before finally finding James?  I actually like each one they demoed with, well, except Steve Stone, but I really couldn't see any one of those achieving breakthrough success.  Mike certainly contributed a lot to DT but the vast majority of that stuff appeals to people like me, not the average fan.  I'm surprised I still find diehard fans that never bothered to pick up any Ytsejam releases, or fan club stuff, and the vast majority of fans including me never went to back to back shows so different setlists never mattered. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: TAC on November 10, 2017, 07:41:15 PM
  and the vast majority of fans including me never went to back to back shows so different setlists never mattered.

Well, the different setlist were cool in that:
1. You could check the previous night's setlist as if you were checking the score of a game from the night before, and
2. It made collecting bootlegs very interesting.

I think both of those added to the "fan experience". I know the band is happier executing a more consistent show, but I usually only went to my local show anyway, and I never did not enjoy it.
But my day to day interest in a current tour is not even close to what it once was.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Schurftkut on November 10, 2017, 08:30:36 PM
now sons of apollo can play a change of seasons as an encore, considering there's two people there who were on the album!!
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Madman Shepherd on November 10, 2017, 08:39:12 PM
  and the vast majority of fans including me never went to back to back shows so different setlists never mattered.

Well, the different setlist were cool in that:
1. You could check the previous night's setlist as if you were checking the score of a game from the night before, and
2. It made collecting bootlegs very interesting.

I think both of those added to the "fan experience". I know the band is happier executing a more consistent show, but I usually only went to my local show anyway, and I never did not enjoy it.
But my day to day interest in a current tour is not even close to what it once was.

Very true.  It was also equally frustrating to go to a show a find out that the night before they played a song I really wanted to hear and then they played it the next night but not the night I was there.  So I kind of feel it was a wash. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: hefdaddy42 on November 11, 2017, 05:10:15 AM
Dear God, this thread.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: RodrigoAltaf on November 11, 2017, 05:27:13 AM
now sons of apollo can play a change of seasons as an encore, considering there's two people there who were on the album!!

I bet they'll play it!!!
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: KevShmev on November 11, 2017, 06:12:59 AM
I'd be surprised. Soto doesn't have the voice to convincingly pull off that song.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: MirrorMask on November 11, 2017, 06:16:47 AM
I don't think they'll play it, either. To Mike it would still look like them copying DT (I wouldn't feel this way nor I would have felt it if he had played with Shattered Fortress), it takes up a lot of time (basically the only encore) and it also draws too much attention. I mean, it's a 20+ minute song and one of the most acclaimed and revered epics of the ex band of 2 of the members, it would allmost steal the spotlight from the rest of the show. Like 2 ex members of Rush playing songs from the unique album of the new band they formed, and then playing 2112 in its entirety... it's too much of a show stealer.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: erwinrafael on November 11, 2017, 07:51:12 AM
The new JSS album is out and just as I suspected, I am enjoying it more than Psychotic Symphony. A lot of cringey lyrics, but JSS is from the 1980s so that's par for the course.  :mehlin But this one really showcases Jeff's current vocal capabilities.
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: ytserush on November 11, 2017, 08:41:46 AM
But by that logic, we're never allowed to criticize any artist for any reason, as long as they like what they did.

I mean, I get that logic, but man would that make life boring.



Criticize away then....


Hmmm......yo mama's so fat, when she sits on a rainbow, skittles pop out.

I see what you did there.
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: ytserush on November 11, 2017, 08:52:27 AM
Winery Dogs was pushed pretty hard by Eddie Trunk. Probably didn't make the difference of 8,000 copies but I'm sure it helped. In general the album was better promoted I thought. I'm still not really sure who the audience of SoA was supposed to be.

I see no reason while he wouldn't do the same for this one. A lot of it is radio friendly.
Well Trunk also had a hand in Winery Dog's formation (I think he recommended Kotzen or something) so that was part of it.

I have a hard time calling SoA radio friendly. Some of it was certainly written with that intention but I'm not sure what radio station (terrestrial or satellite) would be interested in playing it. It's too proggy for the straight forward rock crowd and too straight forward for the prog crowd. There's a happy medium of course (just ask Rush) but Sons of Apollo seems kinda sloppily put together. Don't get me wrong, I thought the album was fine, but like I said I'm really not sure what they were going for. In the end it's probably going to only attract a small fraction of an already niche audience.

Obviously radio would only play the songs that were released before the album came out. Also just because a song is radio friendly doesn't mean that radio WILL play the song. But some songs on this album are more accessible than others.

Given the songs that make up the album, I think they were trying to attract as broad a base as they could which may or may not happen.
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: ytserush on November 11, 2017, 09:02:51 AM
Wow, so they only moved 5,200 copies in the first week? Maybe that marketing strategy didn’t go over so well.

Also, in terms of radio play, I don’t see anything on this record becoming a big FM radio rock hit. A band of dudes in there 50s and 60s playing middle of the road prog metal isn’t exactly a receipt for “hits”. Which is totally fine, I mean we are having this conversation on a DT forum, it’s not like popular equals good, but when we were told this project would be the “kings” of the genre it creates an expectation of a degree of popularity.

Only if you believe what was said.

Given the context of how the album was put together makes that "kings" of the genre statement difficult to believe at best.
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: ytserush on November 11, 2017, 09:06:15 AM
I still think it's good but I don't know if it will have staying power. And I still think this is a lot of wasted opportunities, some more time spent composing, some more variety and you could have had a great disc.

I'd have to think the second album will be better, especially after the band is road tested.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ytserush on November 11, 2017, 09:18:40 AM
I think Mirror Mask was alluding to Scenes being their acclaimed masterpiece. :)

Indeed, I probably didn't word it clearly but I meant that after the trials and tribulations of FII, the following album (the outcome of such frustation and desire to do things on their own terms) produced SFAM, aka their acclaimed masterpiece.

Ah, I wasn't paying attention to what you quoted. That makes sense and indeed SFAM is their acclaimed masterpiece. 

I have noticed a lot of people being far too kind to FII.  I mean, its a great album both creatively and sonicly but when I first got into DT after SFAM a lot of the old school fans were like, "Thank god they didn't release another FII."  Then again, DT fans have a reputation for being all over the map so I guess it's par for the course.

I think we can all agree on the fact that DT has never released a bad album. However, I think FII and BC&SL are two of their most disappointing (for DT standards), but if we compare them to other bands' albums, they're way better, in most cases.

I would agree except I would say FII is not disappointing.  Of course, I became a fan after the release so I wasn't able to feel the initial disappointment some felt.  I would actually put BC&SL in with The Astonishing for disappointment.

Only albums that disappointed me were Systematic Chaos and, to a certain extent, Train Of Thought. 

Falling Into Infinity did disappoint me at the time, but I'm more able to appreciate it after many of the factors that lead me to be put off by it were removed soon after.
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: Lowdz on November 11, 2017, 10:46:32 AM
I still think it's good but I don't know if it will have staying power. And I still think this is a lot of wasted opportunities, some more time spent composing, some more variety and you could have had a great disc.

I'd have to think the second album will be better, especially after the band is road tested.

They have time to write for an album and will have a better idea of what to bring. Saying that, MP will still want to bash it out in a week.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bill1971 on November 11, 2017, 11:37:11 AM
I think the only album I was dissapointed with was Black Clouds. I really liked A Nightmare to Remember and loved the Count of Tuscany. Wither has grown on me. The Shattered Fortress was far better live, especially that one handed fill MM does at the end. I don't really listen to Rite of Passage and haven't listened to The Best of Times since the 1st month but I won't put it down because I know all the heart and emotion MP put into the lyrics.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Madman Shepherd on November 11, 2017, 12:20:16 PM
I wasn't disappointed with Black Clouds at first.  I was so hardcore in my DT fandom that I was happy to get anything.  Then it really started to sink in that the lyrics were not that great in my opinion.  I thought Wither was a dumb song.  Shattered Fortress was a huge let down.  Only after DT played it on the AFTR tour did it start to have life.  I went back and listened to the studio version again and STILL couldnt get into it.  When it was released on BTFW I finally started to appreciate but still think the studio version is a bit lifeless. 

In fact, the only song I really love unconditional from the album is A Rite of Passage and that in many ways feels kind of un-DT.  I thought Jordan's use of an iphone was kind of cheesy (I hate to sound like Derek) but in the end it didn't detract from my love for it. 

Then there is the Astonishing which is a different story/post all together. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: MirrorMask on November 11, 2017, 12:29:03 PM
I thought Wither was a dumb song.

I'd think those are actually the best lyrics of the album. Always loved Wither, so delicate and tasteful.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Madman Shepherd on November 11, 2017, 04:00:52 PM
I thought Wither was a dumb song.

I'd think those are actually the best lyrics of the album. Always loved Wither, so delicate and tasteful.

I guess I don't think the lyrics are bad or the song necessarily but its such a sorrowful song yet its just about writers block.  I just have trouble listening to it. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bosk1 on November 11, 2017, 07:24:29 PM
I'd be surprised. Soto doesn't have the voice to convincingly pull off that song.

He ABSOLUTELY could do the song justice.  But that said, I still don't think they would do it.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: The Walrus on November 11, 2017, 07:35:39 PM
I thought Wither was a dumb song.

I'd think those are actually the best lyrics of the album. Always loved Wither, so delicate and tasteful.

I guess I don't think the lyrics are bad or the song necessarily but its such a sorrowful song yet its just about writers block.  I just have trouble listening to it.

I'm with ya MS. The music is fine and the lyrics aren't bad but the gravity of the song doesn't really fit the lyrical content in my opinion, and I just think it sounds rather bland compared to a lot of the band's other ballads. One of the weak links of that album.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Madman Shepherd on November 11, 2017, 09:11:38 PM
I thought Wither was a dumb song.

I'd think those are actually the best lyrics of the album. Always loved Wither, so delicate and tasteful.

I guess I don't think the lyrics are bad or the song necessarily but its such a sorrowful song yet its just about writers block.  I just have trouble listening to it.

I'm with ya MS. The music is fine and the lyrics aren't bad but the gravity of the song doesn't really fit the lyrical content in my opinion, and I just think it sounds rather bland compared to a lot of the band's other ballads. One of the weak links of that album.

The video doesn't help either.  It's a bunch of footage of them being tired and roadworn but once again the freakin' song is about writers block. 

I do typically like DT's ballads though.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: DT2003 on November 11, 2017, 09:24:02 PM
For some reason i couldnt post it here so i could only post somewhere public and share the link. Has anyone else read this article?

https://www.facebook.com/groups/265473153813560/permalink/519593841734822/

Thanks for posting.  My reaction:  Yeah, more of the same abject lack of class we've seen from Derek in the last couple of months.  They managed to put together a "very good" collection of songs.  But honestly, Derek's and Mike's conduct leading up to this release makes me seriously regret my offers of support that I have given them over the years.  The backlash they have been getting is well-deserved.
This is how I feel. Unlike most people here, I really like the album, but I have only listened three times because I just really do not want to support them. I absolutely refuse to see them live when they come around. It’s sad as if theses guys conducted themselves in a professional way and acted like adults, I think I would really fall for this band, but I just have no interest in them now.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bill1971 on November 12, 2017, 08:41:24 AM
Maybe JSS, Thal and Sheehan will realize they have some potential and branch out on their own pick up Virgil and some young and hungry keyboardist and call themselves the Step Sons of Apollo. Just drop the drama queens DS and MP.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: The Walrus on November 12, 2017, 08:49:21 AM
And then Mike and Derek continue with their own thing and called it the Pharaohs of Denial  :lol Sorry, couldn't help myself...
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: TAC on November 12, 2017, 09:01:54 AM
And then Mike and Derek continue with their own thing and called it the Pharaohs of Denial  :lol Sorry, couldn't help myself...

 :lol
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: TheCountOfNYC on November 12, 2017, 09:58:48 AM
Maybe JSS, Thal and Sheehan will realize they have some potential and branch out on their own pick up Virgil and some young and hungry keyboardist and call themselves the Step Sons of Apollo. Just drop the drama queens DS and MP.

Then Mike can talk about how his second “marriage” failed as well.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: BelichickFan on November 12, 2017, 05:47:44 PM
I hope I don't come across as a jerk. The one good thing about this album for me is that because it sounds like a Symphony X wanna be, it has led me back to early Symphony X which I haven't listen to for a long time and I'm remembering how incredible it is. Sons of Apollo, not so much.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Orbert on November 12, 2017, 06:04:08 PM
Symphony X are pretty cool.  I should re-check them out.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: BelichickFan on November 12, 2017, 06:20:41 PM
Symphony X are pretty cool.  I should re-check them out.
CDs 2-4 (first three with Allen) are killer. Hit and miss after that for me but still really good overall. I hear lots of Symphony X wanna be in SoA.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Öxölklöfför on November 13, 2017, 06:04:20 AM
...and here are their ”take” on the Astonishing novel. (https://photos-3.dropbox.com/t/2/AACcYu0SlJtOBqz1TlnJc9cPRQQwGqaceJud7IQgTrTIYA/12/628694344/png/32x32/1/_/1/2/soa.png/EM67sowFGKysAiACKAI/7Q0oVwwcuC7AZKymSOVVOO9OGybCwxGjvlYR-WLHB1Y?size=1280x960&size_mode=3)
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Dave_Manchester on November 13, 2017, 06:26:16 AM
Their obsession with mentioning Dream Theater/The Astonishing at every opportunity is beyond pathetic at this stage.

Of note there is that a fan wanted to talk about Sons of Apollo, and wrote enthusiastically about the idea of the band making a concept album. Engage with that? Keep it on the topic of Sons of Apollo? Keep it positive and encourage the discussion of their new band? Nope. Make it all about Dream Theater instead.

MP, remind us please why you shut down your Forum. I seem to remember you were annoyed at all Sons of Apollo conversation eventually veering into mentions of Dream Theater. Didn't you instruct your moderators to ban anyone who brought up "that other band" during discussions of your new one?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: The Walrus on November 13, 2017, 07:32:09 AM
I have a sneaking suspicion Derek set up all those fan pages himself, too.

For all his talk of positivity, Mike sure loves hanging out with the biggest cunt in prog.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: erwinrafael on November 13, 2017, 07:49:07 AM
Maybe JSS, Thal and Sheehan will realize they have some potential and branch out on their own pick up Virgil and some young and hungry keyboardist and call themselves the Step Sons of Apollo. Just drop the drama queens DS and MP.

Heck, JSS should just tour for his newly-released solo album, he would enjoy it more than this SoA thing.

And do not pull Virgil away from Icefish. Virgil struck gold with that band!
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bill1971 on November 13, 2017, 08:14:33 AM
Maybe JSS, Thal and Sheehan will realize they have some potential and branch out on their own pick up Virgil and some young and hungry keyboardist and call themselves the Step Sons of Apollo. Just drop the drama queens DS and MP.

Heck, JSS should just tour for his newly-released solo album, he would enjoy it more than this SoA thing.

And do not pull Virgil away from Icefish. Virgil struck gold with that band!

Ok, I wont. I called him back and he is staying put. :)

I have to check out JSS's solo album. I do like his vocals.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: nobloodyname on November 13, 2017, 08:33:07 AM
In other news, I've managed to fall out with the band on Twitter since I expressed my disappointment over the dynamic range, despite trying to be really rather polite about it. Nice to know Jay Ruston and Jeff Scott Soto think my stereo is rubbish, though :lol
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ariich on November 13, 2017, 08:37:57 AM
I have a sneaking suspicion Derek set up all those fan pages himself, too.

For all his talk of positivity, Mike sure loves hanging out with the biggest cunt in prog.
This is completely unnecessary and against forum rules:

12. Insults or senseless bashing of the current or former band members of Dream Theater and/or their music will not be tolerated.  Honest, open critique is always allowed, provided it is constructive and does not cross the line and become bashing, belittling, etc.

Consider this a formal warning. Knock off the insults.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: The Walrus on November 13, 2017, 08:39:09 AM
If calling out the obvious is against rules, I'm not sorry, but whatever, I'll stop then.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ariich on November 13, 2017, 08:40:08 AM
If calling out the obvious is against rules, I'm not sorry, but whatever, I'll stop then.
You honestly see nothing wrong with your post?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: The Walrus on November 13, 2017, 08:40:52 AM
No. However, if you want to continue the back and forth I'd be happy to do it via PM instead of here, you and I have made both our points clear and I'll respect your order. EDIT: Apologies for derailing/offending anyone.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Lethean on November 13, 2017, 09:08:56 AM
I think Stadler's advice on these matters is the way to go (and the way I always try to go).  If someone is doing/saying/tweeting the things that DS, or for another example, the tweeter in chief, does/says/tweets, there's no need to resort to name calling. They're sadly giving you plenty of legitimate things to take them to task for.


 (And I don't know what the language rules here are, but if you ask me, that particular word shouldn't be used when referring to anyone - member or ex-member of DT or not).
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bill1971 on November 13, 2017, 09:12:04 AM
In other news, I've managed to fall out with the band on Twitter since I expressed my disappointment over the dynamic range, despite trying to be really rather polite about it. Nice to know Jay Ruston and Jeff Scott Soto think my stereo is rubbish, though :lol

JSS said something to you?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: nobloodyname on November 13, 2017, 09:19:34 AM
To be fair to him, he liked responses from Sherinian and Ruston that were aimed at me rather than responding to me directly.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: a51502112 on November 13, 2017, 09:29:07 AM
When the SOA album/band was first announced I was pretty pumped. Then, the BS with MP and DS started. I still have not purchased or listened to the album and will not. I'm not even that much into DT anymore, but SOA don't deserve my money.
I used to admire MP for his sobriety, work ethic, etc.. but it seems he'll never learn. He gets what he gets.


Their obsession with mentioning Dream Theater/The Astonishing at every opportunity is beyond pathetic at this stage.

Of note there is that a fan wanted to talk about Sons of Apollo, and wrote enthusiastically about the idea of the band making a concept album. Engage with that? Keep it on the topic of Sons of Apollo? Keep it positive and encourage the discussion of their new band? Nope. Make it all about Dream Theater instead.

MP, remind us please why you shut down your Forum. I seem to remember you were annoyed at all Sons of Apollo conversation eventually veering into mentions of Dream Theater. Didn't you instruct your moderators to ban anyone who brought up "that other band" during discussions of your new one?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: erwinrafael on November 13, 2017, 09:33:09 AM
@nobloodyname

Well, I think there's nothing wrong with what Jay said:

"Maybe it’s your stereo. This record is at least 2-3 dB quieter than most commercial releases these days."

Or what Derek said:

"I am sorry you are not enjoying it loud, I crank it daily in my car and think it sounds amazing...this is a first to hear for me."

The only thing I found about their tweets is they sort of contradict each other. DS sort of confirmed with his tweet that it is loud.  :lol
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bill1971 on November 13, 2017, 09:42:55 AM
@nobloodyname

Well, I think there's nothing wrong with what Jay said:

"Maybe it’s your stereo. This record is at least 2-3 dB quieter than most commercial releases these days."

Or what Derek said:

"I am sorry you are not enjoying it loud, I crank it daily in my car and think it sounds amazing...this is a first to hear for me."

The only thing I found about their tweets is they sort of contradict each other. DS sort of confirmed with his tweet that it is loud.  :lol

Yeah, those responses don't sound too bad.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ganpondorodf on November 13, 2017, 10:20:07 AM
Derek drives around listening to his own album every day?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bill1971 on November 13, 2017, 10:20:38 AM
Their obsession with mentioning Dream Theater/The Astonishing at every opportunity is beyond pathetic at this stage.

Of note there is that a fan wanted to talk about Sons of Apollo, and wrote enthusiastically about the idea of the band making a concept album. Engage with that? Keep it on the topic of Sons of Apollo? Keep it positive and encourage the discussion of their new band? Nope. Make it all about Dream Theater instead.

MP, remind us please why you shut down your Forum. I seem to remember you were annoyed at all Sons of Apollo conversation eventually veering into mentions of Dream Theater. Didn't you instruct your moderators to ban anyone who brought up "that other band" during discussions of your new one?

I think they both feel very hurt that DT doesn't want them in their band any longer.
It reminds me of that Frasier episode where Lilith and her new man rents the bungalo next to Frasier and his new woman and he continues to feel threatened including jumping up and down and bed making "love" noises by himself to make Lilith jealous.

Ok that was a strange analogy.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: nobloodyname on November 13, 2017, 10:27:12 AM
@nobloodyname

Well, I think there's nothing wrong with what Jay said:

"Maybe it’s your stereo. This record is at least 2-3 dB quieter than most commercial releases these days."

Or what Derek said:

"I am sorry you are not enjoying it loud, I crank it daily in my car and think it sounds amazing...this is a first to hear for me."

The only thing I found about their tweets is they sort of contradict each other. DS sort of confirmed with his tweet that it is loud.  :lol

Nah, they're not contradictory.

It's the tone of the exchange rather than those specific tweets. Aside from that, the wave form IS clipped in places and yes, you can hear it on a decent set-up and cranked loud.

Although, it is, of course, my implied poor set-up that's the issue.

To state the bleeding obvious, just because it's 2-3 dB quieter than anything else doesn't make it any good sonically.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Cool Chris on November 13, 2017, 10:35:53 AM
I think they both feel very hurt that DT doesn't want them in their band any longer.

Any longer? DT hasn't want Derek in their band for 20 years.  :lol
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: pcs90 on November 13, 2017, 11:25:51 AM
@nobloodyname

Well, I think there's nothing wrong with what Jay said:

"Maybe it’s your stereo. This record is at least 2-3 dB quieter than most commercial releases these days."

Or what Derek said:

"I am sorry you are not enjoying it loud, I crank it daily in my car and think it sounds amazing...this is a first to hear for me."

The only thing I found about their tweets is they sort of contradict each other. DS sort of confirmed with his tweet that it is loud.  :lol

I don't see anything wrong with these, if anything they're a lot more respectful than what usually gets discussed in this thread. I do find it a little amusing that DS listens to his own album every day, though. I feel like you'd want to have a little break of the album between now and the tour?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: gzarruk on November 13, 2017, 11:40:01 AM
@nobloodyname

Well, I think there's nothing wrong with what Jay said:

"Maybe it’s your stereo. This record is at least 2-3 dB quieter than most commercial releases these days."

Or what Derek said:

"I am sorry you are not enjoying it loud, I crank it daily in my car and think it sounds amazing...this is a first to hear for me."

The only thing I found about their tweets is they sort of contradict each other. DS sort of confirmed with his tweet that it is loud.  :lol

I don't see anything wrong with these, if anything they're a lot more respectful than what usually gets discussed in this thread. I do find it a little amusing that DS listens to his own album every day, though. I feel like you'd want to have a little break of the album between now and the tour?

Honestly, I don't think he has anything else to do other than listening to the album daily and trolling on social media.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Stadler on November 13, 2017, 11:44:49 AM
Man, oh man, I can't believe the amount of air time some of you guys are giving to something you profess to not like.   Why spend so much time on something that irks you so much? 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: gzarruk on November 13, 2017, 11:48:15 AM
Man, oh man, I can't believe the amount of air time some of you guys are giving to something you profess to not like.   Why spend so much time on something that irks you so much?

I would ask Derek that.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: MirrorMask on November 13, 2017, 12:14:05 PM
Man, oh man, I can't believe the amount of air time some of you guys are giving to something you profess to not like.   Why spend so much time on something that irks you so much?

Because it's human nature and we're no different from people gossiping about TV celebrities or pop stars.

Imagine a scenario where Lady Gaga continues to tweet stuff like #no-whatever-Madonna-is-doing, don't you think fans of Madonna would debate at length how Lady Gaga has no class and blablabla?  well, same with metalheads and the likes. We've all drank deep at the fountain of feuds between Bruce Dickinson and Maiden when they were apart, Ozzy and Sabbath etc...
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bill1971 on November 13, 2017, 12:42:32 PM
Man, oh man, I can't believe the amount of air time some of you guys are giving to something you profess to not like.   Why spend so much time on something that irks you so much?

Like you are doing by asking that question?

:)
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Stadler on November 13, 2017, 12:47:24 PM
Man, oh man, I can't believe the amount of air time some of you guys are giving to something you profess to not like.   Why spend so much time on something that irks you so much?

I would ask Derek that.

I believe he's already answered that, and I've already covered that ground here.  Not going there again.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Stadler on November 13, 2017, 12:55:33 PM
Man, oh man, I can't believe the amount of air time some of you guys are giving to something you profess to not like.   Why spend so much time on something that irks you so much?

Like you are doing by asking that question?

:)

Believe me, my one post doesn't hold a candle.   And anyway, aren't I supposed to be the fanboy?   Even I've given it a rest. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: The Walrus on November 13, 2017, 01:01:31 PM
Clearly you haven't.

;)

(I'm having fun, Stadler, I hope you know that.)
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ganpondorodf on November 13, 2017, 01:35:05 PM
Man, oh man, I can't believe the amount of air time some of you guys are giving to something you profess to not like.   Why spend so much time on something that irks you so much?

Terrifying, isn't it
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Stadler on November 13, 2017, 01:41:58 PM
Clearly you haven't.

;)

(I'm having fun, Stadler, I hope you know that.)

I do.    :-*
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Adami on November 13, 2017, 01:42:58 PM
Man, oh man, I can't believe the amount of air time some of you guys are giving to something you profess to not like.   Why spend so much time on something that irks you so much?

(https://pics.me.me/welcome-to-the-internet-ill-be-your-guide-19541233.png)
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Stadler on November 13, 2017, 01:50:45 PM
Man, oh man, I can't believe the amount of air time some of you guys are giving to something you profess to not like.   Why spend so much time on something that irks you so much?

(https://pics.me.me/welcome-to-the-internet-ill-be-your-guide-19541233.png)

That's scarring.  I'm uncomfortable.   
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Adami on November 13, 2017, 01:52:02 PM
Feel free to tweet about it.  :biggrin:
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ProfessorPeart on November 13, 2017, 02:50:30 PM
Not that it matters to most here, but Metal Wani posted up an audio interview with Mike 2 days ago. Mike essentially said that he regrets the 'Prog Metal' tag at the start of the sessions. He had fully intended it to be just that, but that during writing things went in a different direction and he didn't want to stop it. He wanted to embrace it and let it flow.

Now back to your regularly scheduled MP/DS negachatter.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bill1971 on November 13, 2017, 03:04:57 PM
I guess now MP not only played in 87 different bands, he started them. I never knew he started Twisted Sister, Fates Warning and Avenged Sevenfold, pretty impressive.

“Launching a new band is never easy (take it from the man who has launched about 87 of them!), but when you have such an incredibly strong launching point as SOA does, the sky's the limit! We look forward to getting this band on the road and playing all over the world throughout 2018...tour dates are coming very soon!"
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: MirrorMask on November 13, 2017, 03:09:48 PM
Not that it matters to most here, but Metal Wani posted up an audio interview with Mike 2 days ago. Mike essentially said that he regrets the 'Prog Metal' tag at the start of the sessions. He had fully intended it to be just that, but that during writing things went in a different direction and he didn't want to stop it. He wanted to embrace it and let it flow.

And there's nothing wrong with that. But then why insisting on all the comparisons with DT and how this album would challenge them?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: DragonAttack on November 13, 2017, 03:20:08 PM
I've tried off and on listening to this debut Apollo album.  So far, only 'Gladiator' is reaching me.  A little different than I was expecting ;)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0OvED8hYnZg
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bill1971 on November 13, 2017, 03:44:22 PM
Not that it matters to most here, but Metal Wani posted up an audio interview with Mike 2 days ago. Mike essentially said that he regrets the 'Prog Metal' tag at the start of the sessions. He had fully intended it to be just that, but that during writing things went in a different direction and he didn't want to stop it. He wanted to embrace it and let it flow.

Now back to your regularly scheduled MP/DS negachatter.

What throne is he reclaiming then?

Mike: The second song is Coming Home, which will debut on Friday… [interview was done a few weeks back]

Derek: …and unofficially, the “Mike Portnoy theme song”…

Mike: Derek has been quoted saying elsewhere…

Derek: He’s coming home to reclaim the throne of the genre that he created. We wanted the song to lyrically really fit that spirit.

Mike: Third song of the album is Signs of the Time which was the first thing that we put out just for people to get a taste of the band. It’s got a little bit of everything: it’s got the heavy riffs, the hooky chorus, and the shredding solo. That felt like a good first taste to see a little bit of everything which the band has.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Nekov on November 13, 2017, 03:51:55 PM
I've tried off and on listening to this debut Apollo album.  So far, only 'Gladiator' is reaching me.  A little different than I was expecting ;)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0OvED8hYnZg

I like this one better  :lol
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: SjundeInseglet on November 13, 2017, 05:27:31 PM
Here is Ron Thal showing why he's the best thing to ever happen to Sons of Apollo: https://m.youtube.com/watch?t=3000s&v=wK3VvjTZh00 (the SoA content begins around the 50:00 mark). Amazing player and a really nice guy. If only some of the other SoA guys could take a cue from him...
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: gzarruk on November 13, 2017, 07:28:38 PM
Here is Ron Thal showing why he's the best thing to ever happen to Sons of Apollo: https://m.youtube.com/watch?t=3000s&v=wK3VvjTZh00 (the SoA content begins around the 50:00 mark). Amazing player and a really nice guy. If only some of the other SoA guys could take a cue from him...

Ron is amazing! What a great guitar player :metal
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Sycsa on November 13, 2017, 07:32:12 PM
Looking at Ron almost makes me want to forget Derek’s sins and buy the album. Almost.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ReaperKK on November 14, 2017, 05:11:00 AM
Here is Ron Thal showing why he's the best thing to ever happen to Sons of Apollo: https://m.youtube.com/watch?t=3000s&v=wK3VvjTZh00 (the SoA content begins around the 50:00 mark). Amazing player and a really nice guy. If only some of the other SoA guys could take a cue from him...

Ron is amazing! What a great guitar player :metal

Yea Ron is a savage.
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: Anxiety35 on November 14, 2017, 08:06:12 AM
I still think it's good but I don't know if it will have staying power. And I still think this is a lot of wasted opportunities, some more time spent composing, some more variety and you could have had a great disc.

I'd have to think the second album will be better, especially after the band is road tested.

Agreed. As they gel together and maybe come up with riffs on the road, that could give them some more time to write songs than just pumping them out as fast as they can.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: El Barto on November 14, 2017, 10:53:11 AM
Quote from: Lethean

Re: DT & SoA together
« Reply #18 on: November 13, 2017, 08:11:53 PM »
Quote from: Kattelox on November 13, 2017, 07:02:44 PM

    I disagree strongly with that last sentence, El Barto - the boys have a blast on stage and it's a great fun time.  :)


Sometimes you're horribly wrong (like about Scarred) but this is spot on.  :)  The Astonishing tour was a bit of an anomaly, but this I&W tour is very much a "rock concert."  As was the DT12 tour.
I've seen DT upwards of 15 times, both in small venues and big ones, and only twice did I get the sense that they were trying to be a rock band playing a rock show (and one was opening for Maiden). Part of it is because I have a wider frame of reference, having grown up seeing shows in the 80's which are a completely different concept. I won't hold that against them, although I'll point out that Portnoy damn sure understood the difference and shared my nostalgia. But part of it is that it's simply not what the band, nor its fans, want to do. They want the albums recreated as accurately as possible. Fun is secondary to that goal, and it shows in the band's energy, or lack thereof. A lack of energy from both the band and the fans. It's very rare for me to get a rock show vibe when going to see them, milling around in the concourse or lobby. The atmosphere tends to be as sterile as the show itself.

Contrast that with a WD show, or even the Shattered Fortress gig last month. I suspect people who saw both (I won't see DT until the last night, assuming they make it that far) would attest to it being a very different sort of show. A different atmosphere. Venues also play a big role in this. Cramming a thousand people into Irving Plaza is going to create a different experience than 1000 folks lounging about a 3500 seat theater.

In the end this is all going to be a subjective thing, and there's no way I'll change the minds of DT fans. That's impossible under any circumstances. I'm just seeing a distinction that lies right on the line of what I like and don't like. DT has always been on the bad side of that, and now they're way out on the outer fringes. SoA will be on the good side of that line, and make a double billing (the OP that I'm referring to) unworkable. Like I said, two very different ideas of what a rock concert should be.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Ben_Jamin on November 14, 2017, 11:08:36 AM
Ugh...Hearing Man With No Name from Dereks Blood of The Snake album, its how I thought Sons Of Apollo was gonna be more like in terms of the key sounds and vibe.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Lowdz on November 14, 2017, 11:16:02 AM
Looking at Ron almost makes me want to forget Derek’s sins and buy the album. Almost.

Ron and Jeff were the reasons I did. In my mind, my money went just to those two. I lost all respect for Billy when I found out his “religious “ views.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bill1971 on November 14, 2017, 11:19:12 AM
Quote from: Lethean

Re: DT & SoA together
« Reply #18 on: November 13, 2017, 08:11:53 PM »
Quote from: Kattelox on November 13, 2017, 07:02:44 PM

    I disagree strongly with that last sentence, El Barto - the boys have a blast on stage and it's a great fun time.  :)


Sometimes you're horribly wrong (like about Scarred) but this is spot on.  :)  The Astonishing tour was a bit of an anomaly, but this I&W tour is very much a "rock concert."  As was the DT12 tour.
I've seen DT upwards of 15 times, both in small venues and big ones, and only twice did I get the sense that they were trying to be a rock band playing a rock show (and one was opening for Maiden). Part of it is because I have a wider frame of reference, having grown up seeing shows in the 80's which are a completely different concept. I won't hold that against them, although I'll point out that Portnoy damn sure understood the difference and shared my nostalgia. But part of it is that it's simply not what the band, nor its fans, want to do. They want the albums recreated as accurately as possible. Fun is secondary to that goal, and it shows in the band's energy, or lack thereof. A lack of energy from both the band and the fans. It's very rare for me to get a rock show vibe when going to see them, milling around in the concourse or lobby. The atmosphere tends to be as sterile as the show itself.

Contrast that with a WD show, or even the Shattered Fortress gig last month. I suspect people who saw both (I won't see DT until the last night, assuming they make it that far) would attest to it being a very different sort of show. A different atmosphere. Venues also play a big role in this. Cramming a thousand people into Irving Plaza is going to create a different experience than 1000 folks lounging about a 3500 seat theater.

In the end this is all going to be a subjective thing, and there's no way I'll change the minds of DT fans. That's impossible under any circumstances. I'm just seeing a distinction that lies right on the line of what I like and don't like. DT has always been on the bad side of that, and now they're way out on the outer fringes. SoA will be on the good side of that line, and make a double billing (the OP that I'm referring to) unworkable. Like I said, two very different ideas of what a rock concert should be.

I have seen DT about 14 times going back to 1994 on the Awake tour. For me the vibe changed with the venues. When it was general admission in a smaller venue like DT used to play it had more of a rock concert feel. Or at least a more intimate one. Once they became more successful and up until The Astonishing tour where I saw them last, it still felt like a rock concert much like Rush but it lost a bit of it's intimate feel. I don't think MP brought that at all, I think it's the venues. When I last saw DT with MP on the Black Clouds tour, it did not feel any more Rock and Roll than the self titled Tour . As a matter of fact it was more fun, the band seemed more relaxed and enjoying themselves more. It felt more like a band and less like the Mike Portnoy and his backing band show. The Astonishing Tour did not have a rock concert feel per se because it was more of a show like Jesus Christ Super Star.

I agree that the SOA as well as I am sure the Shattered Fortress will have a more intimate feel.  I doubt my post will change the mind of any loyal MP fan though just like your post wont change the mind of any DT fans.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Lethean on November 14, 2017, 11:42:23 AM
Quote from: Lethean

Re: DT & SoA together
« Reply #18 on: November 13, 2017, 08:11:53 PM »
Quote from: Kattelox on November 13, 2017, 07:02:44 PM

    I disagree strongly with that last sentence, El Barto - the boys have a blast on stage and it's a great fun time.  :)


Sometimes you're horribly wrong (like about Scarred) but this is spot on.  :)  The Astonishing tour was a bit of an anomaly, but this I&W tour is very much a "rock concert."  As was the DT12 tour.
I've seen DT upwards of 15 times, both in small venues and big ones, and only twice did I get the sense that they were trying to be a rock band playing a rock show (and one was opening for Maiden). Part of it is because I have a wider frame of reference, having grown up seeing shows in the 80's which are a completely different concept. I won't hold that against them, although I'll point out that Portnoy damn sure understood the difference and shared my nostalgia. But part of it is that it's simply not what the band, nor its fans, want to do. They want the albums recreated as accurately as possible. Fun is secondary to that goal, and it shows in the band's energy, or lack thereof. A lack of energy from both the band and the fans. It's very rare for me to get a rock show vibe when going to see them, milling around in the concourse or lobby. The atmosphere tends to be as sterile as the show itself.

Contrast that with a WD show, or even the Shattered Fortress gig last month. I suspect people who saw both (I won't see DT until the last night, assuming they make it that far) would attest to it being a very different sort of show. A different atmosphere. Venues also play a big role in this. Cramming a thousand people into Irving Plaza is going to create a different experience than 1000 folks lounging about a 3500 seat theater.

In the end this is all going to be a subjective thing, and there's no way I'll change the minds of DT fans. That's impossible under any circumstances. I'm just seeing a distinction that lies right on the line of what I like and don't like. DT has always been on the bad side of that, and now they're way out on the outer fringes. SoA will be on the good side of that line, and make a double billing (the OP that I'm referring to) unworkable. Like I said, two very different ideas of what a rock concert should be.

I have seen DT about 14 times going back to 1994 on the Awake tour. For me the vibe changed with the venues. When it was general admission in a smaller venue like DT used to play it had more of a rock concert feel. Or at least a more intimate one. Once they became more successful and up until The Astonishing tour where I saw them last, it still felt like a rock concert much like Rush but it lost a bit of it's intimate feel. I don't think MP brought that at all, I think it's the venues. When I last saw DT with MP on the Black Clouds tour, it did not feel any more Rock and Roll than the self titled Tour . As a matter of fact it was more fun, the band seemed more relaxed and enjoying themselves more. It felt more like a band and less like the Mike Portnoy and his backing band show. The Astonishing Tour did not have a rock concert feel per se because it was more of a show like Jesus Christ Super Star.

I agree that the SOA as well as I am sure the Shattered Fortress will have a more intimate feel.  I doubt my post will change the mind of any loyal MP fan though just like your post wont change the mind of any DT fans.

I think this is an interesting topic. I think Bill is dead on with the venue size.  I will admit to not having seen shows in the 80s.  However, I've seen rock bands, and I've seen metal bands, and if we're using the rock umbrella to include all of the above, I certainly think a DT show qualifies. 

However - I don't know what it was like at the shows you (El Barto) are referring to.  I only know what it was like at shows I've seen, which includes Iron Maiden, Priest, Aerosmith, and Metallica.  And Sabbath. And Heaven and Hell.   And Dio.  And of course Rush.  And I don't feel that DT shows are all that much different than any of those experiences.  In fact, besides Dio, I'd say a lot of DT shows that I've attended have been more energetic (from a crowd point of view - would never say that anyone can keep up with Bruce Dickinson) because the venues are smaller.  At all of the bigger shows, you've got diehards mixed in with people who are just there to socialize, drink beer, and listen to some music in the background.  At the DT and Dio shows, you do have some of those people, but the crowd felt more energetic and more engaged as a whole.  The atmosphere at the DT show in Toronto the other night was way more electric than it was for Maiden, for example, and about the same as the Shattered Fortress show.  But this isn't a criticism of Maiden - I think the smaller the venue, the more charged the atmosphere.  (Most of the time, of course there are exceptions). 

The Astonishing aside, because it was a different experience, I just don't see the difference between what DT does and the other bands I've mentioned.  I don't know what you're looking for in a show that doesn't happen at DT, Maiden, Priest, Dio, etc shows.  Then again - maybe it's just perspective, the people you are with, your position in the crowd.  Or maybe those shows in the 80s were somehow totally different.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: El Barto on November 14, 2017, 11:47:08 AM
Quote from: Lethean

Re: DT & SoA together
« Reply #18 on: November 13, 2017, 08:11:53 PM »
Quote from: Kattelox on November 13, 2017, 07:02:44 PM

    I disagree strongly with that last sentence, El Barto - the boys have a blast on stage and it's a great fun time.  :)


Sometimes you're horribly wrong (like about Scarred) but this is spot on.  :)  The Astonishing tour was a bit of an anomaly, but this I&W tour is very much a "rock concert."  As was the DT12 tour.
I've seen DT upwards of 15 times, both in small venues and big ones, and only twice did I get the sense that they were trying to be a rock band playing a rock show (and one was opening for Maiden). Part of it is because I have a wider frame of reference, having grown up seeing shows in the 80's which are a completely different concept. I won't hold that against them, although I'll point out that Portnoy damn sure understood the difference and shared my nostalgia. But part of it is that it's simply not what the band, nor its fans, want to do. They want the albums recreated as accurately as possible. Fun is secondary to that goal, and it shows in the band's energy, or lack thereof. A lack of energy from both the band and the fans. It's very rare for me to get a rock show vibe when going to see them, milling around in the concourse or lobby. The atmosphere tends to be as sterile as the show itself.

Contrast that with a WD show, or even the Shattered Fortress gig last month. I suspect people who saw both (I won't see DT until the last night, assuming they make it that far) would attest to it being a very different sort of show. A different atmosphere. Venues also play a big role in this. Cramming a thousand people into Irving Plaza is going to create a different experience than 1000 folks lounging about a 3500 seat theater.

In the end this is all going to be a subjective thing, and there's no way I'll change the minds of DT fans. That's impossible under any circumstances. I'm just seeing a distinction that lies right on the line of what I like and don't like. DT has always been on the bad side of that, and now they're way out on the outer fringes. SoA will be on the good side of that line, and make a double billing (the OP that I'm referring to) unworkable. Like I said, two very different ideas of what a rock concert should be.

I have seen DT about 14 times going back to 1994 on the Awake tour. For me the vibe changed with the venues. When it was general admission in a smaller venue like DT used to play it had more of a rock concert feel. Or at least a more intimate one. Once they became more successful and up until The Astonishing tour where I saw them last, it still felt like a rock concert much like Rush but it lost a bit of it's intimate feel. I don't think MP brought that at all, I think it's the venues. When I last saw DT with MP on the Black Clouds tour, it did not feel any more Rock and Roll than the self titled Tour . As a matter of fact it was more fun, the band seemed more relaxed and enjoying themselves more. It felt more like a band and less like the Mike Portnoy and his backing band show. The Astonishing Tour did not have a rock concert feel per se because it was more of a show like Jesus Christ Super Star.

I agree that the SOA as well as I am sure the Shattered Fortress will have a more intimate feel.  I doubt my post will change the mind of any loyal MP fan though just like your post wont change the mind of any DT fans.
I definitely agree about the venues, but I wouldn't call it a lack of intimacy. I might even consider the opposite, in fact. With the smaller, SRO venues, there's a liveliness to them. You feel like you're part of the experience, and in some ways you are. The band gets energy from the crowd. The crowd gets energy from the band. Faraday smiles. At modern DT shows the audience observes and nothing else. I've seen DT from the front row a couple of times, and it never felt intimate at all to me. There's just no connection.

And I'm not trying to say that this change was a result of MP's departure. To that I would only say that he brought a few things to mitigate the sterility. I think it's fair to say that he was, at the very least, a co-frontman. Quite frankly, I've always felt that's something DT needs. I also think the click and the static setlists take away a great deal of the liveness. You know you're not getting a one-off performance. Everybody gets the exact same performance, and to me that's a great loss.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: El Barto on November 14, 2017, 11:58:32 AM
--SNIP--
I think this is an interesting topic. I think Bill is dead on with the venue size.  I will admit to not having seen shows in the 80s.  However, I've seen rock bands, and I've seen metal bands, and if we're using the rock umbrella to include all of the above, I certainly think a DT show qualifies. 

However - I don't know what it was like at the shows you (El Barto) are referring to.  I only know what it was like at shows I've seen, which includes Iron Maiden, Priest, Aerosmith, and Metallica.  And Sabbath. And Heaven and Hell.   And Dio.  And of course Rush.  And I don't feel that DT shows are all that much different than any of those experiences.  In fact, besides Dio, I'd say a lot of DT shows that I've attended have been more energetic (from a crowd point of view - would never say that anyone can keep up with Bruce Dickinson) because the venues are smaller.  At all of the bigger shows, you've got diehards mixed in with people who are just there to socialize, drink beer, and listen to some music in the background.  At the DT and Dio shows, you do have some of those people, but the crowd felt more energetic and more engaged as a whole.  The atmosphere at the DT show in Toronto the other night was way more electric than it was for Maiden, for example, and about the same as the Shattered Fortress show.  But this isn't a criticism of Maiden - I think the smaller the venue, the more charged the atmosphere.  (Most of the time, of course there are exceptions). 

The Astonishing aside, because it was a different experience, I just don't see the difference between what DT does and the other bands I've mentioned.  I don't know what you're looking for in a show that doesn't happen at DT, Maiden, Priest, Dio, etc shows.  Then again - maybe it's just perspective, the people you are with, your position in the crowd.  Or maybe those shows in the 80s were somehow totally different.
And I haven't seen DT on the road as much as other bands, so my experience is somewhat limited to Texas, aside from a couple of NYC/CT shows. What I can tell you is that most often what I see is music nerds at their shows. Rush is a good example because there are generations of fans there. You've got the prog-nerds, and you've got the fogies that grew up on Rush. At a DT show I'm a not-so respected elder.  :lol Since I'm a firm believer that the folk who go to a show to party and hang out are an integral part of the rock concert experience, that makes a big difference.

And so as not to make this all about DT/Portnoy/SoA, this is a phenomenon I've been bothered by for quite some time and applies to most bands. You mention Metallica and they're a prime example. That's more of a commercial enterprise than a rock concert, and it's part of the reason I've taken to traveling to Mexico to see shows. There's still a certain aspect of lawlessness down there.

Part of my bitch is being an old fuck and waxing nostalgic. Part of it is that I think we've lost something very good and unique with the experience. We've certainly gained some things; excellent sound and lighting, big screens for the folk in nosebleed. We've lost an atmosphere that was something quite wonderful, though. DT just happens to demonstrate this better than most.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Lethean on November 14, 2017, 12:12:41 PM
Quote from: Lethean

Re: DT & SoA together
« Reply #18 on: November 13, 2017, 08:11:53 PM »
Quote from: Kattelox on November 13, 2017, 07:02:44 PM

    I disagree strongly with that last sentence, El Barto - the boys have a blast on stage and it's a great fun time.  :)


Sometimes you're horribly wrong (like about Scarred) but this is spot on.  :)  The Astonishing tour was a bit of an anomaly, but this I&W tour is very much a "rock concert."  As was the DT12 tour.
I've seen DT upwards of 15 times, both in small venues and big ones, and only twice did I get the sense that they were trying to be a rock band playing a rock show (and one was opening for Maiden). Part of it is because I have a wider frame of reference, having grown up seeing shows in the 80's which are a completely different concept. I won't hold that against them, although I'll point out that Portnoy damn sure understood the difference and shared my nostalgia. But part of it is that it's simply not what the band, nor its fans, want to do. They want the albums recreated as accurately as possible. Fun is secondary to that goal, and it shows in the band's energy, or lack thereof. A lack of energy from both the band and the fans. It's very rare for me to get a rock show vibe when going to see them, milling around in the concourse or lobby. The atmosphere tends to be as sterile as the show itself.

Contrast that with a WD show, or even the Shattered Fortress gig last month. I suspect people who saw both (I won't see DT until the last night, assuming they make it that far) would attest to it being a very different sort of show. A different atmosphere. Venues also play a big role in this. Cramming a thousand people into Irving Plaza is going to create a different experience than 1000 folks lounging about a 3500 seat theater.

In the end this is all going to be a subjective thing, and there's no way I'll change the minds of DT fans. That's impossible under any circumstances. I'm just seeing a distinction that lies right on the line of what I like and don't like. DT has always been on the bad side of that, and now they're way out on the outer fringes. SoA will be on the good side of that line, and make a double billing (the OP that I'm referring to) unworkable. Like I said, two very different ideas of what a rock concert should be.

I have seen DT about 14 times going back to 1994 on the Awake tour. For me the vibe changed with the venues. When it was general admission in a smaller venue like DT used to play it had more of a rock concert feel. Or at least a more intimate one. Once they became more successful and up until The Astonishing tour where I saw them last, it still felt like a rock concert much like Rush but it lost a bit of it's intimate feel. I don't think MP brought that at all, I think it's the venues. When I last saw DT with MP on the Black Clouds tour, it did not feel any more Rock and Roll than the self titled Tour . As a matter of fact it was more fun, the band seemed more relaxed and enjoying themselves more. It felt more like a band and less like the Mike Portnoy and his backing band show. The Astonishing Tour did not have a rock concert feel per se because it was more of a show like Jesus Christ Super Star.

I agree that the SOA as well as I am sure the Shattered Fortress will have a more intimate feel.  I doubt my post will change the mind of any loyal MP fan though just like your post wont change the mind of any DT fans.
I definitely agree about the venues, but I wouldn't call it a lack of intimacy. I might even consider the opposite, in fact. With the smaller, SRO venues, there's a liveliness to them. You feel like you're part of the experience, and in some ways you are. The band gets energy from the crowd. The crowd gets energy from the band. Faraday smiles. At modern DT shows the audience observes and nothing else. I've seen DT from the front row a couple of times, and it never felt intimate at all to me. There's just no connection.
I couldn't disagree more strongly here.  When I'm close up, I find there's a connection with everyone except for JM (and I have no problem with JM just being himself).  If you're close enough to the rest of them, they engage with various people in the audience throughout the show.  I completely agree with the cycle of energy being a cool thing, but I think that totally happens at DT shows.  (Just as it does at Rush shows).

Quote
And I'm not trying to say that this change was a result of MP's departure. To that I would only say that he brought a few things to mitigate the sterility. I think it's fair to say that he was, at the very least, a co-frontman. Quite frankly, I've always felt that's something DT needs. I also think the click and the static setlists take away a great deal of the liveness. You know you're not getting a one-off performance. Everybody gets the exact same performance, and to me that's a great loss.
I'd love for them to bring back the rotating setlists.  It's the one thing from the MP era that I really miss a lot.  So I won't argue with you there.  However, I always found that no two Rush shows were the same, even when the setlist was the same or only changed by 1 or 2 songs, and I feel that way with DT as well.  There's always something different about each show that I remember.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Stadler on November 14, 2017, 12:19:33 PM
I struggled with how to put it into words, and I can't really, except to say that I know exactly what el Barto is talking about.   My first show was in 1982, in a hockey arena, and I saw most of the bigger bands of the day in similar sized places.    There was a vibe to those shows.   People looking to be seen, not in a Hollywood way, but in a party sort of way.  Beers in the parking lot.   Buying tickets for face value in the parking lot and even if it was a scalper it was more organic than some college douche making $100 hawking tix for "Corporate Ticket Express, LLC"TM.   First Kiss show, 1983, watching a girl throw her bra at Gene.  Then her shoes.   Then her panties (watching her try to get them off - thus her throwing the shoes - was worth the price of admission right there).   Then her attempt at her shirt (the guy with her put the kibosh on that), which led to her throwing her earrings, then passing out in the front row.    Not that drunken debauchery is necessary, but you don't get the corporate types who shelled out $500 for front row doing that.   Even the people in the pit, like at Maiden this past summer in Brooklyn, were more... predatory, like they were entitled to be there.

I saw the Black Clouds tour, and it was a theater and it was a very disciplined crowd.  There was nothing dangerous about it (in fact, I saw Marlene, Max and Melody walking to their seats, Max sporting an impressive set of shooting headphones for ear protection).  I can remember seeing Dio and Twisted Sister in '84 from way back on the floor, and during Dio watching the silouettes of chairs flying back and forth.    It wasn't a fight per se, and it wasn't really chaos, but it was sort of reckless. 

I don't know; these examples don't do the point justice, and I feel like they will be easily ripped apart, but it's the vibe that goes around it, not the actual events. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: SwedishGoose on November 14, 2017, 12:23:59 PM
Oh... you know Dream Theater has not had any audience interaction since MP left..... or have they?

The concerts I go to there is a marked increase in audience interaction from the band.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/swedishgoose/12717309784/in/album-72157641378331524/   

What is lacking.... let's see the Drummer does not spit and hit his head....

From where I am standing, usually close to the stage, I see a hapoier band where espescially the bassist and the drummer seem to gel much better than before. I see more interaction between the members if the band and between them and the sudience.
There is also a quite lively crowd... singing, headbanging, jumping up and down etc...

The Shattered Fortress audience was much less lively (not me and my friend though) at least until MP came out on stage, gave me and my friend a stick each and begged everyone to follow our example and stand.

The venue definitely has to do with it... Shattered Fortress was in a nice cozy Theater with velvet chairs while DT normally plays for a standing audience.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Lethean on November 14, 2017, 12:28:01 PM
--SNIP--
I think this is an interesting topic. I think Bill is dead on with the venue size.  I will admit to not having seen shows in the 80s.  However, I've seen rock bands, and I've seen metal bands, and if we're using the rock umbrella to include all of the above, I certainly think a DT show qualifies. 

However - I don't know what it was like at the shows you (El Barto) are referring to.  I only know what it was like at shows I've seen, which includes Iron Maiden, Priest, Aerosmith, and Metallica.  And Sabbath. And Heaven and Hell.   And Dio.  And of course Rush.  And I don't feel that DT shows are all that much different than any of those experiences.  In fact, besides Dio, I'd say a lot of DT shows that I've attended have been more energetic (from a crowd point of view - would never say that anyone can keep up with Bruce Dickinson) because the venues are smaller.  At all of the bigger shows, you've got diehards mixed in with people who are just there to socialize, drink beer, and listen to some music in the background.  At the DT and Dio shows, you do have some of those people, but the crowd felt more energetic and more engaged as a whole.  The atmosphere at the DT show in Toronto the other night was way more electric than it was for Maiden, for example, and about the same as the Shattered Fortress show.  But this isn't a criticism of Maiden - I think the smaller the venue, the more charged the atmosphere.  (Most of the time, of course there are exceptions). 

The Astonishing aside, because it was a different experience, I just don't see the difference between what DT does and the other bands I've mentioned.  I don't know what you're looking for in a show that doesn't happen at DT, Maiden, Priest, Dio, etc shows.  Then again - maybe it's just perspective, the people you are with, your position in the crowd.  Or maybe those shows in the 80s were somehow totally different.
And I haven't seen DT on the road as much as other bands, so my experience is somewhat limited to Texas, aside from a couple of NYC/CT shows. What I can tell you is that most often what I see is music nerds at their shows. Rush is a good example because there are generations of fans there. You've got the prog-nerds, and you've got the fogies that grew up on Rush. At a DT show I'm a not-so respected elder.  :lol Since I'm a firm believer that the folk who go to a show to party and hang out are an integral part of the rock concert experience, that makes a big difference.

And so as not to make this all about DT/Portnoy/SoA, this is a phenomenon I've been bothered by for quite some time and applies to most bands. You mention Metallica and they're a prime example. That's more of a commercial enterprise than a rock concert, and it's part of the reason I've taken to traveling to Mexico to see shows. There's still a certain aspect of lawlessness down there.

Part of my bitch is being an old fuck and waxing nostalgic. Part of it is that I think we've lost something very good and unique with the experience. We've certainly gained some things; excellent sound and lighting, big screens for the folk in nosebleed. We've lost an atmosphere that was something quite wonderful, though. DT just happens to demonstrate this better than most.
See to me, the Rush show experience is very much like the DT show experience, except that with Rush it's on a bigger scale.  You have people of all ages at both shows.  You have the people who can air drum everything (and probably correctly), you have the people who want to chit chat all night long, you have the people who cross their arms and stand still, the people who sing along and clap and chant, etc, and the people who spill their beer all over the place.  :)  There are more of the beer spillers at Rush shows, but you find them at the DT shows too.  But I will agree with you that probably a larger percentage of DT fans are just there to watch the show, rather than party.  I would say more Rush fans are like that than Maiden fans, and etc.  I just don't find it to be such a huge difference that really makes one show sterile and the others not. 

It could be because of me and my way of taking in a show.  I will totally confess that I've never gone to a concert looking for lawlessness.  :)  I like making a connection with the band and fans of the band, and it works for me, but maybe someone else would be bored.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: King Postwhore on November 14, 2017, 12:33:35 PM
I think everybody is going off the rails with what El Barto is saying.  He's saying would trade the newer stages and light shows and the structured sets for the old days where there was minimal lights and stage props but rotating sets.  That felt more personal to him.

I think with any band that has longevity like this, the original fans go through this.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Lethean on November 14, 2017, 12:42:18 PM
I struggled with how to put it into words, and I can't really, except to say that I know exactly what el Barto is talking about.   My first show was in 1982, in a hockey arena, and I saw most of the bigger bands of the day in similar sized places.    There was a vibe to those shows.   People looking to be seen, not in a Hollywood way, but in a party sort of way.  Beers in the parking lot.   Buying tickets for face value in the parking lot and even if it was a scalper it was more organic than some college douche making $100 hawking tix for "Corporate Ticket Express, LLC"TM.   First Kiss show, 1983, watching a girl throw her bra at Gene.  Then her shoes.   Then her panties (watching her try to get them off - thus her throwing the shoes - was worth the price of admission right there).   Then her attempt at her shirt (the guy with her put the kibosh on that), which led to her throwing her earrings, then passing out in the front row.    Not that drunken debauchery is necessary, but you don't get the corporate types who shelled out $500 for front row doing that.   Even the people in the pit, like at Maiden this past summer in Brooklyn, were more... predatory, like they were entitled to be there.

I saw the Black Clouds tour, and it was a theater and it was a very disciplined crowd.  There was nothing dangerous about it (in fact, I saw Marlene, Max and Melody walking to their seats, Max sporting an impressive set of shooting headphones for ear protection).  I can remember seeing Dio and Twisted Sister in '84 from way back on the floor, and during Dio watching the silouettes of chairs flying back and forth.    It wasn't a fight per se, and it wasn't really chaos, but it was sort of reckless. 

I don't know; these examples don't do the point justice, and I feel like they will be easily ripped apart, but it's the vibe that goes around it, not the actual events.

I'm not going to rip it apart.  I will say that I don't think this has anything to do with DT - it seems to be a general thing.  I was lucky enough to see Dio a few times, and each time it was a "normal" concert experience.  A bit of a pit broke out at one show, but that happened at a DT GA show too.  It just seems crazy to me that the Dio shows I saw wouldn't be considered a "rock concert" even though there was no lawlessness, no chairs being thrown, no one taking off their bra.  I suppose I can get saying "shows just aren't like the used to be."  If that's how they used to be - I guess I'm glad.  :)  Maybe that makes me a music nerd even though I don't actually play an instrument, but I just want to go to the show to experience live music - the music itself - and the feelings that go along with it - adrenaline rush/euphoria/etc.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: King Postwhore on November 14, 2017, 12:45:56 PM
Funny thing now is I love small venues but the bands I want to see go on so late.  I have to take the next day off.  Damn you old age.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: TAC on November 14, 2017, 12:56:04 PM
Funny thing now is I love small venues but the bands I want to see go on so late.  I have to take the next day off.  Damn you old age.

I agree. It rules out a lot of shows. School nights etc..  Plus I'm not going out solo to a club until 1:00am. That really doesn't jive with the Mrs.   :lol

But I have given her a 10 month notice on Helloween.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Nachtmerrie on November 14, 2017, 01:07:21 PM
I think in the end it all depends on the venues. When I go to a concert I want to stand with a beer in my hand instead of being forced to sit. Most of the venues here in The Netherlands are only 'general admission' which adds to the atmosphere from my point of view.

The only time I had to sit during the show was at the TA show and while I understand DT chose different venues for that specific tour I found it be pretty boring.

Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: MirrorMask on November 14, 2017, 01:11:45 PM
I didn't mind to sit down for The Astonishing, but generally, I never ever understood why they would let Dream Theater play in theaters with people sitting. Every time I was seeing news of DT shows in theaters over there in the USA, for me that's a cultural difference as big as the use of miles and the weird date format. A rock / metal show has to be with everyone standing and free to go wild, as long as they don't annoy the person next to them.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: PetFish on November 14, 2017, 01:12:55 PM
It's also the city/location.

Vancouver crowds are the suck and the city just overall blows for concerts. Even most major/popular shows skip us.  They'll start out east like Toronto, then work their way west to Calgary and Edmonton, then skip Vancouver and go down to Seattle.

I've never personally attended a show in Europe or South America but these are the places that seem to have the most enthusiastic crowds with their own energy that bands can also feed off of.

So it's not just the bands and it isn't fair to put the blame solely on them for a lack of "energy" but I will also say that, specifically about Dream Theater, the music they play isn't exactly stage-shenanigans friendly and requires a different "energy" to be able to play.  If you want to say "well, MP had energy", then I can agree with that but it was really just him while the other guys had to maintain concentration most of the time.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: SwedishGoose on November 14, 2017, 01:18:50 PM
The Astonishing is the only DT show that had seated arrangment in Sweden.
Didn't mind sitting for TA as that was something else but generally I prefer standing up close to the stage for any band.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Stadler on November 14, 2017, 01:41:40 PM
I'm not going to rip it apart.  I will say that I don't think this has anything to do with DT - it seems to be a general thing.  I was lucky enough to see Dio a few times, and each time it was a "normal" concert experience.  A bit of a pit broke out at one show, but that happened at a DT GA show too.  It just seems crazy to me that the Dio shows I saw wouldn't be considered a "rock concert" even though there was no lawlessness, no chairs being thrown, no one taking off their bra.  I suppose I can get saying "shows just aren't like the used to be."  If that's how they used to be - I guess I'm glad.  :)  Maybe that makes me a music nerd even though I don't actually play an instrument, but I just want to go to the show to experience live music - the music itself - and the feelings that go along with it - adrenaline rush/euphoria/etc.

It's not JUST lawlessness though, and truth be told, we'd get on grandly at a show.  I'm not looking for drunken naked women, or to being hit by a chair.   But there was a sort of sense of...  "I can't get this from my living room".   Or "this is a little different than the typical night out with the guys".    I'm trying not to use the word "corporate" - especially after the only two photos of me here on this site are of me in a blue collared shirt at the Shattered Fortress show and the Maiden show (it's my lucky shirt!) - but that's as close as I can get.   Put another way, shows today seem more scripted and choreographed, and that includes the lead up to the show and the parts around the show.   We parked where we could.  There would always be some dude with a cooler selling luke warm beers in the stairwell to New Haven Coliseum.   The only "security" was a pimply dude taking your ticket (who knew not to rip it like it was toilet paper, but FOLLOW THE CREASE!) and a heavy chick with zero makeup that didn't let you on the floor unless you had a floor ticket (you had the run of the building back then, but the floor was hallowed, sacred ground).   T-shirts were cash only - and it was just that: t0shirts, programs, pins and bandannas, no exceptions, and there weren't 15 people standing there debating if they were getting the hoodie or the beer couzy along with their t-shirt and autographed condom packs.  I don't remember there being food at the Coliseum, though there was at the Hartford Civic Center (and the added bonus of, I kid you not, a line in one of the men's rooms where a local stripper/prostitute set up shop in one of the stalls).    There were no reserved seats, no catered seats, no VIP anything (except, again, the strip bar that was across the highway in Hartford, and named "VIP") and no wristbands.  You could, if you wanted, go on the floor, and collect tickets then go up to your buddies in the 200's and give them the tickets and all of you would march right back down to the floor, except we didn't do that because it wasn't cool to the people that were already there.    There were no computer lights; you'd know the show was about to start when the guys (anywhere from 2 to 4, usually) would climb up the rope ladders to man the spotlights in the lighting rig.   

I'm like King; I go to as many smaller club shows as I can, because you still get this vibe in some places.  Gene Simmons at the Trocadero was like that.  I waltzed right up to the stage, just about, and next thing you know, I'm ON stage, singing "I Love It Loud" right next to my childhood hero.    :metal :metal
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ariich on November 14, 2017, 01:42:10 PM
I love DT, and I love DT's live shows. But they definitely do not have anywhere close to the energy/rock-show-vibe that bands like Metallica, Maiden, etc. have. Muse are one of the best in that regard too. I understand the point about intimacy and venue size, but those bands sell out stadiums and still put on a hugely energetic show.

That's not a criticism of DT. DT's music is a lot more technically complex and intricate than those bands, and naturally lends itself less easily to lots of running and jumping around. If they did too much of it, the performances would get messy (see: Metallica). Personally, I loved the balance between the two that they used to have. For me, the shows are too carefully crafted now, and they lack the spontaneity they used to. Performances are tighter (incredibly so) and so the gigs are still genuinely great, but there isn't the same excitement as there was when you didn't know basically exactly what was going to happen.

As a live band, I can definitely see SOA being more my thing, even if I find the music less exciting (though still great) than most of DT's.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: The Walrus on November 14, 2017, 01:45:37 PM
The small to midsize venues rule. I don't like Arch Enemy or Trivium but I saw them Sunday at a venue that holds a few hundred people and it was awesome. That connection between the fans and band is electric, I love being close to the stage, interacting with the musicians, watching the band feed on the energy of the passionate fans that are there... as much as I love Dream Theater's shows, those will always be my favorite. Truth be told those small stages are way more fun to watch a band play on than a big stage with all this space between the musicians.

So in a way I'm sure that'll work in Sons's favor, a lot of people will enjoy that, and that's really cool.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ariich on November 14, 2017, 01:47:18 PM
The small to midsize venues rule. I don't like Arch Enemy or Trivium but I saw them Sunday at a venue that holds a few hundred people and it was awesome. That connection between the fans and band is electric, I love being close to the stage, interacting with the musicians, watching the band feed on the energy of the passionate fans that are there... as much as I love Dream Theater's shows, those will always be my favorite. Truth be told those small stages are way more fun to watch a band play on than a big stage with all this space between the musicians.
For me, it depends. In a big venue with a big stage, it needs an elaborate show to make it work. Muse do that awesomely. Pink Floyd were the legends of that back in their day. If it's basically just the band playing, then I agree, it pales in comparison to a smaller, intimate venue.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: The Walrus on November 14, 2017, 01:49:43 PM
The small to midsize venues rule. I don't like Arch Enemy or Trivium but I saw them Sunday at a venue that holds a few hundred people and it was awesome. That connection between the fans and band is electric, I love being close to the stage, interacting with the musicians, watching the band feed on the energy of the passionate fans that are there... as much as I love Dream Theater's shows, those will always be my favorite. Truth be told those small stages are way more fun to watch a band play on than a big stage with all this space between the musicians.
For me, it depends. In a big venue with a big stage, it needs an elaborate show to make it work. Muse do that awesomely. Pink Floyd were the legends of that back in their day. If it's basically just the band playing, then I agree, it pales in comparison to a smaller, intimate venue.

Oh yeah, if you have the light show to go with it, a big stage is still awesome, I just prefer the intimacy of small venues. The lights at DT have been fantastic in my experience.. I'd see Tool just for the light show too.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: El Barto on November 14, 2017, 02:07:32 PM
Several people have connected DT's stage presence with the demanding nature of what they do, and that's a very valid point. However, I think there can be a sweet-spot. I'd trade the occasional clam for a bit more liveliness. Petrucci is never going to be Angus Young. I get that. He doesn't have to be Robert Fripp, though. However, I think they (most likely correctly) think that their fans would be mortified by such a thing. I think that contributes to the overly strict structure of everything. Everything has to be precisely the same as it was before and will be tomorrow. That's just not what I go in for.

This is an oddball thing to throw out, but a subtle example is the guy that used to run the lights for DT. I sat right behind FOH at their Dallas show with Maiden. As others have no doubt noticed, that guy was a hoot to watch. Unlike JP, he might as well have been Angus Young working the lights, and when he really did a song right he reacted like he just hit the game winning home run. Dude was clearly a big fan of DT and it showed in his work. By contrast Maiden came on and their LD's job was to hit start before every song, then kick back and watch. DT is now that band. Organic things like lights that might be ever so slightly off, or a song that gets played faster or harder than expected, help contribute to the feeling of it being a concert rather than a strict reproduction.

There's been tons of discussion about DT and backing vocals. Another example. I'd rather have sloppy vocals than pre-recorded, pristine VOX coming from nowhere. Backing VOX are a huge component of what makes a concert, and they largely abandon it for the sake of sameness. Again, it contributes to the general sterility I see in their live shows.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: SwedishGoose on November 14, 2017, 02:13:08 PM
There is soo much in Stsdlers post that I remember but not miss in the least...
And for this bit here I would be royally pissed... if I go to the toilet at a concert I want to get out as quick as possible... one stall taken like that would make one less for all of us other to go to...

 
(and the added bonus of, I kid you not, a line in one of the men's rooms where a local stripper/prostitute set up shop in one of the stalls).   

About the only thing I agree with you is that I don't like the VIP seating and/or like with DT on the Images & Words and beyond tour golden circle (VIP standing) where you had to pay extra to get to the front of the stage as it was sealed of... (only time I have seen that so far though).
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Lethean on November 14, 2017, 02:13:36 PM
I love DT, and I love DT's live shows. But they definitely do not have anywhere close to the energy/rock-show-vibe that bands like Metallica, Maiden, etc. have. Muse are one of the best in that regard too. I understand the point about intimacy and venue size, but those bands sell out stadiums and still put on a hugely energetic show.
I disagree here, but I get that it's just different perspectives.  Maiden does indeed put on a very energetic show.  I just haven't felt that the energy of the crowd is very high, or all that different from a DT show.  I might not be explaining myself well; to me it just doesn't feel like "Maiden - rock show, high energy" and "DT - boring, the crowd is dead, etc."  The vibe of the crowd (to me) is usually pretty intense at a DT show.  I'm not at all criticizing Maiden.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Lethean on November 14, 2017, 02:21:21 PM

There's been tons of discussion about DT and backing vocals. Another example. I'd rather have sloppy vocals than pre-recorded, pristine VOX coming from nowhere. Backing VOX are a huge component of what makes a concert, and they largely abandon it for the sake of sameness. Again, it contributes to the general sterility I see in their live shows.

I get what you're saying... and I generally didn't fault DT for their backing vocals in the past.  They were trying their best, though I do think some of the backing vocals should have been turned wayyy down.  My displeasure with the backing vocals was on the albums - I thought JP's were mostly fine, really disliked MP's, but either way would have greatly preferred just to James on the album.  Live.... I don't care so much either way.  Maybe it's because I'm such a huge Rush fan; they always piped in the backing vocals but their shows never felt sterile to me.  And if DT wants to pipe them in, it's fine by me.  I don't need for the show to be perfect, if they have bad backing vocals I'd look past it, but I don't mind their lack either.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bosk1 on November 14, 2017, 02:38:53 PM
Several people have connected DT's stage presence with the demanding nature of what they do, and that's a very valid point. However, I think there can be a sweet-spot. I'd trade the occasional clam for a bit more liveliness. Petrucci is never going to be Angus Young. I get that. He doesn't have to be Robert Fripp, though. However, I think they (most likely correctly) think that their fans would be mortified by such a thing. I think that contributes to the overly strict structure of everything. Everything has to be precisely the same as it was before and will be tomorrow.

You are dead on.  JP has pretty much told me that very thing.  And while they would love more crowd energy than what they get in the typical U.S. city, especially on the west coast, they aren't going to get anything different precisely because of the precise and low-key vibe being given off from on the stage.  The first leg of the ADTOE tour is very telling in that regard.  When Trivium was onstage as the opener, you had a full-on pit on the floor when I saw them in S.F.  When that set was over, the Trivium fans cleared out of the floor area, it filled in with DT fans, and you had the typical subdued DT crowd.  I'm not criticizing the crowd.  Just saying, it was two completely different vibes at the same show.

There is soo much in Stsdlers post that I remember but not miss in the least...

Yeah, same here.  If Stadler's posts were meant to be sales pitches, they completely failed to make me a customer.  :lol  Everything he posted could go into a post about "turnoffs from '80s shows."  There are a lot of things I loved about shows back then, but nothing in Stadler's posts would make that list.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bill1971 on November 14, 2017, 02:58:37 PM
I'm not going to rip it apart.  I will say that I don't think this has anything to do with DT - it seems to be a general thing.  I was lucky enough to see Dio a few times, and each time it was a "normal" concert experience.  A bit of a pit broke out at one show, but that happened at a DT GA show too.  It just seems crazy to me that the Dio shows I saw wouldn't be considered a "rock concert" even though there was no lawlessness, no chairs being thrown, no one taking off their bra.  I suppose I can get saying "shows just aren't like the used to be."  If that's how they used to be - I guess I'm glad.  :)  Maybe that makes me a music nerd even though I don't actually play an instrument, but I just want to go to the show to experience live music - the music itself - and the feelings that go along with it - adrenaline rush/euphoria/etc.

It's not JUST lawlessness though, and truth be told, we'd get on grandly at a show.  I'm not looking for drunken naked women, or to being hit by a chair.   But there was a sort of sense of...  "I can't get this from my living room".   Or "this is a little different than the typical night out with the guys".    I'm trying not to use the word "corporate" - especially after the only two photos of me here on this site are of me in a blue collared shirt at the Shattered Fortress show and the Maiden show (it's my lucky shirt!) - but that's as close as I can get.   Put another way, shows today seem more scripted and choreographed, and that includes the lead up to the show and the parts around the show.   We parked where we could.  There would always be some dude with a cooler selling luke warm beers in the stairwell to New Haven Coliseum.   The only "security" was a pimply dude taking your ticket (who knew not to rip it like it was toilet paper, but FOLLOW THE CREASE!) and a heavy chick with zero makeup that didn't let you on the floor unless you had a floor ticket (you had the run of the building back then, but the floor was hallowed, sacred ground).   T-shirts were cash only - and it was just that: t0shirts, programs, pins and bandannas, no exceptions, and there weren't 15 people standing there debating if they were getting the hoodie or the beer couzy along with their t-shirt and autographed condom packs.  I don't remember there being food at the Coliseum, though there was at the Hartford Civic Center (and the added bonus of, I kid you not, a line in one of the men's rooms where a local stripper/prostitute set up shop in one of the stalls).    There were no reserved seats, no catered seats, no VIP anything (except, again, the strip bar that was across the highway in Hartford, and named "VIP") and no wristbands.  You could, if you wanted, go on the floor, and collect tickets then go up to your buddies in the 200's and give them the tickets and all of you would march right back down to the floor, except we didn't do that because it wasn't cool to the people that were already there.    There were no computer lights; you'd know the show was about to start when the guys (anywhere from 2 to 4, usually) would climb up the rope ladders to man the spotlights in the lighting rig.   

I'm like King; I go to as many smaller club shows as I can, because you still get this vibe in some places.  Gene Simmons at the Trocadero was like that.  I waltzed right up to the stage, just about, and next thing you know, I'm ON stage, singing "I Love It Loud" right next to my childhood hero.    :metal :metal

Sounds amazing.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: El Barto on November 14, 2017, 03:18:23 PM

Yeah, same here.  If Stadler's posts were meant to be sales pitches, they completely failed to make me a customer.  :lol  Everything he posted could go into a post about "turnoffs from '80s shows."  There are a lot of things I loved about shows back then, but nothing in Stadler's posts would make that list.
And there are things from shows back then that I don't miss either. Being bludgeoned by a wall of 130dB un-EQed noise probably tops the list. What he described, and I certainly miss as well, contributed to a more festive atmosphere, though. That's what some of us pine for. It's not the debauchery per se, though I'm obviously a big, big fan, but the feeling that it was an event. It was something we all had in common and we all celebrated. Even if you're interest, for some strange reason, didn't include getting high in the parking lot and ogling slutty girls in fishnet stockings, you still wanted to be a part of the going's on in your own way. It was a sort of camaraderie. Nowadays it seems people just go to see a band perform their favorite song, or see some hoser sing a F#, and the atmosphere reflects that.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bosk1 on November 14, 2017, 03:18:39 PM
I merged the two main SoA threads.  I realize that some of the discussion going on simultaneously may look a bit confusing.  But we also really had no need for two separate threads moving forward. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Hourglass Prison on November 14, 2017, 03:29:57 PM
Oh THAT’S what happened.
I’m sitting here reading and next thing I know, it’s 20 pages ago lol
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ariich on November 14, 2017, 03:34:59 PM
I love DT, and I love DT's live shows. But they definitely do not have anywhere close to the energy/rock-show-vibe that bands like Metallica, Maiden, etc. have. Muse are one of the best in that regard too. I understand the point about intimacy and venue size, but those bands sell out stadiums and still put on a hugely energetic show.
I disagree here, but I get that it's just different perspectives.  Maiden does indeed put on a very energetic show.  I just haven't felt that the energy of the crowd is very high, or all that different from a DT show.  I might not be explaining myself well; to me it just doesn't feel like "Maiden - rock show, high energy" and "DT - boring, the crowd is dead, etc."  The vibe of the crowd (to me) is usually pretty intense at a DT show.  I'm not at all criticizing Maiden.
To clarify, I'm not saying that DT shows are boring or that the crowd is dead. I'm sure with all bands it depends on the place. The DT shows I've been to, the crowd has been great. But there's a tangible difference. As a *complete generalisation*, at DT shows people are there (myself included) to pay attention to the music and the performance, whereas at Maiden/Metallica shows people are there to have a blast. Obviously that's entirely over-stating it, but that's the thrust of my experience in London and sometimes other parts of the UK.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: gzarruk on November 14, 2017, 03:35:17 PM
Oh THAT’S what happened.
I’m sitting here reading and next thing I know, it’s 20 pages ago lol

Same here :lol
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Ben_Jamin on November 14, 2017, 05:23:45 PM
Oh THAT’S what happened.
I’m sitting here reading and next thing I know, it’s 20 pages ago lol

Haha same here. I was all "I'm pushing new, yet went back to previous convos."
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Lethean on November 14, 2017, 07:42:52 PM
I'm not going to rip it apart.  I will say that I don't think this has anything to do with DT - it seems to be a general thing.  I was lucky enough to see Dio a few times, and each time it was a "normal" concert experience.  A bit of a pit broke out at one show, but that happened at a DT GA show too.  It just seems crazy to me that the Dio shows I saw wouldn't be considered a "rock concert" even though there was no lawlessness, no chairs being thrown, no one taking off their bra.  I suppose I can get saying "shows just aren't like the used to be."  If that's how they used to be - I guess I'm glad.  :)  Maybe that makes me a music nerd even though I don't actually play an instrument, but I just want to go to the show to experience live music - the music itself - and the feelings that go along with it - adrenaline rush/euphoria/etc.

It's not JUST lawlessness though, and truth be told, we'd get on grandly at a show.  I'm not looking for drunken naked women, or to being hit by a chair.   But there was a sort of sense of...  "I can't get this from my living room".   Or "this is a little different than the typical night out with the guys".

So, you don't want to be hit by a chair, but you want to think that you *could* be hit by a chair?  ;)  Just kidding - will you be at any of the shows for I&W? 

For my experience - I *can't* get it from my living room - if I could, I wouldn't see as many shows as I do.  I enjoy watching a concert dvd every so often, but it's not at all the same thing as seeing the show live.

I think I <sort of> get what you're trying to say, and for me it just doesn't work the same way.  To merge this with El Barto:

And there are things from shows back then that I don't miss either. Being bludgeoned by a wall of 130dB un-EQed noise probably tops the list. What he described, and I certainly miss as well, contributed to a more festive atmosphere, though. That's what some of us pine for. It's not the debauchery per se, though I'm obviously a big, big fan, but the feeling that it was an event. It was something we all had in common and we all celebrated. Even if you're interest, for some strange reason, didn't include getting high in the parking lot and ogling slutty girls in fishnet stockings, you still wanted to be a part of the going's on in your own way. It was a sort of camaraderie. Nowadays it seems people just go to see a band perform their favorite song, or see some hoser sing a F#, and the atmosphere reflects that.

It's not one or the other, I don't think.  Or, not for me. Maybe so for some people.  But for me, I can both want to hear James nail the F# and also feel a sense of camaraderie.  I can want to watch the band do what they do so well, and also feel part of something with the other people who are there.  I do it in my own way though, and perhaps you'd find that sterile.  I like to talk to people before and after the show - people I know, people I don't know, about their experiences with DT, other bands they like, how far back they go, how they're wrong about not liking Voices and Scarred ;), whatever.  There's a sense of having something in common for sure.  During the show, I do watch it.  But I don't sit there with my hands folded on my lap with a scorecard ticking off how many mistakes they make.  It's a dynamic evening.  I might sing along a bit, I might cheer.  I might chant.  I might laugh in amazement at something MM does.  I get chills.  I smile, I might even shed a tear every so often.  I don't leave my spot (where I'm hopefully standing, TA aside) to get a drink, I don't chat it up with the person next to me, and maybe from a distance that would seem like I'm coldly standing there hoping that everything will be perfect and I'm ready to throw tomatoes if the F# is missed, but nothing could be further from the truth.  I'm feeling emotions, and feeling alive.

Quote from: back to Stadler
I'm trying not to use the word "corporate" - especially after the only two photos of me here on this site are of me in a blue collared shirt at the Shattered Fortress show and the Maiden show (it's my lucky shirt!) - but that's as close as I can get.   Put another way, shows today seem more scripted and choreographed, and that includes the lead up to the show and the parts around the show.   We parked where we could.  There would always be some dude with a cooler selling luke warm beers in the stairwell to New Haven Coliseum.   The only "security" was a pimply dude taking your ticket (who knew not to rip it like it was toilet paper, but FOLLOW THE CREASE!) and a heavy chick with zero makeup that didn't let you on the floor unless you had a floor ticket (you had the run of the building back then, but the floor was hallowed, sacred ground).   T-shirts were cash only - and it was just that: t0shirts, programs, pins and bandannas, no exceptions, and there weren't 15 people standing there debating if they were getting the hoodie or the beer couzy along with their t-shirt and autographed condom packs.  I don't remember there being food at the Coliseum, though there was at the Hartford Civic Center (and the added bonus of, I kid you not, a line in one of the men's rooms where a local stripper/prostitute set up shop in one of the stalls).    There were no reserved seats, no catered seats, no VIP anything (except, again, the strip bar that was across the highway in Hartford, and named "VIP") and no wristbands.  You could, if you wanted, go on the floor, and collect tickets then go up to your buddies in the 200's and give them the tickets and all of you would march right back down to the floor, except we didn't do that because it wasn't cool to the people that were already there.    There were no computer lights; you'd know the show was about to start when the guys (anywhere from 2 to 4, usually) would climb up the rope ladders to man the spotlights in the lighting rig.   

I'm like King; I go to as many smaller club shows as I can, because you still get this vibe in some places.  Gene Simmons at the Trocadero was like that.  I waltzed right up to the stage, just about, and next thing you know, I'm ON stage, singing "I Love It Loud" right next to my childhood hero.    :metal :metal
I love going to smaller club shows as well (and have been to the Trocadero).  Would never dream of getting on stage, because that's probably more of a nightmare for me.  I'll leave that to the band, thanks. :)  Smaller club shows, general admission, do have a different vibe than a theater show, but not always *so* different.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bosk1 on November 14, 2017, 07:59:34 PM
All I know is, if I ever meet Stadler, I'm bringing a folding chair to the party.  I hear he likes that.  :)
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bill1971 on November 14, 2017, 09:41:13 PM
Oh THAT’S what happened.
I’m sitting here reading and next thing I know, it’s 20 pages ago lol

I was confused too. I thought some major news broke or DS tweeted something. :)
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Madman Shepherd on November 14, 2017, 10:44:53 PM
Wait, so did we lose the poll about people's favorite songs?  I was curious to know how big of a share Figaro's Whore ended up getting. It seemed like it was running neck and neck with Divine Addiction (my choice) and God of the Sun.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: The Curious Orange on November 15, 2017, 04:23:35 AM
On the subject of venues making atmosphere, I've seen DT at the following venues, all of which had a fantastic atmosphere and were some of the best nights of my life:

Nottingham Rock City
London Astoria (RIP)
Kentish Town Forum
Leeds O2 Academy
Sheffield City Hall
Wolverhampton Civic Hall
Le Zenith, Paris

And I've seen them at the following venues, which had absolutely no atmosphere at all and were quite horrible experiences:

Hammersmith Apollo
Wembley Arena
London Palladium


So yes, smaller, standing venues, please. If the band must play larger capacity venues for logistical reasons, please, please, please play venues with a standing floor and seated tiers! All-seater aircraft hangers are just horrible. If I wanted that kind of experience I'd go see Barry Manilow or someone.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: MirrorMask on November 15, 2017, 04:32:06 AM
Wait, so did we lose the poll about people's favorite songs?  I was curious to know how big of a share Figaro's Whore ended up getting. It seemed like it was running neck and neck with Divine Addiction (my choice) and God of the Sun.

Well, they were all anyway troll votes to say "I don't like / don't care for this album"...
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Podaar on November 15, 2017, 06:14:14 AM
I watched that interview with Mike and Derek (yesterday, the link was just a page back, I swear to god), and when Derek was putting down "screeching" vocals, I couldn't help but wish the interviewer would say, "Yeah, I know what you mean, like Halford, Dickinson, Mercury, Perry, and Plant?!"

 :lol
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bosk1 on November 15, 2017, 07:42:59 AM
Wait, so did we lose the poll about people's favorite songs?  I was curious to know how big of a share Figaro's Whore ended up getting. It seemed like it was running neck and neck with Divine Addiction (my choice) and God of the Sun.

???  Um...it's this thread now.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: The Walrus on November 15, 2017, 07:47:04 AM
Wait, so did we lose the poll about people's favorite songs?  I was curious to know how big of a share Figaro's Whore ended up getting. It seemed like it was running neck and neck with Divine Addiction (my choice) and God of the Sun.

???  Um...it's this thread now.

But where's the poll? The poll here just has ratings from 1-10, not the voting on songs.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: MirrorMask on November 15, 2017, 08:11:51 AM
Same for me, I don't see the options anymore, only the results.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Kwyjibo on November 15, 2017, 08:32:53 AM
The poll is for the rating of the album apparently.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: erwinrafael on November 15, 2017, 08:58:56 AM
I just had a thought.

Mike Portnoy thought and intended for SoA to really be prog metal. But things went in a different direction during the writing. It became more of a hard rock direction.

Portnoy is the one who brought in JSS. JSS said in an interview that he came into the project expecting that it would be prog metal, but it did not turn out that way.

Derek is the one who seems to be very proud of this record as hard rock, with them having legit rock and roll cred. He takes pride that there is no so-called screeching vocals which he associates with prog in this record, highlighting that this is really straight-up rock.

Derek made most of the vocal directions for the songs. He had disagreements with JSS.

Derek is the only one who had compositions (two) outside the core group.

Derek is the most aggressive in the web. His online behavior can not seem to be checked, starting from the video leak of Ron Thal.

What all this points to? Derek is the king Son of Apollo. Not Mike Portnoy. SoA is Derek's band.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Sycsa on November 15, 2017, 09:01:59 AM
What all this points to? Derek is the king Son of Apollo. Not Mike Portnoy. SoA is Derek's band.
Yeah, he's the captain who goes down with the ship while everyone else abandons it.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Madman Shepherd on November 15, 2017, 09:16:40 AM
Wait, so did we lose the poll about people's favorite songs?  I was curious to know how big of a share Figaro's Whore ended up getting. It seemed like it was running neck and neck with Divine Addiction (my choice) and God of the Sun.

Well, they were all anyway troll votes to say "I don't like / don't care for this album"...

Yeah I thought that was hilarious though.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Orbert on November 15, 2017, 10:52:15 AM
I just had a thought.

Mike Portnoy thought and intended for SoA to really be prog metal. But things went in a different direction during the writing. It became more of a hard rock direction.

Portnoy is the one who brought in JSS. JSS said in an interview that he came into the project expecting that it would be prog metal, but it did not turn out that way.

Derek is the one who seems to be very proud of this record as hard, with them having legit rock and roll cred. He takes pride that there is no so-called screeching vocals in this record, which to him highlights that this is really rock.

Derek made most of the vocal directions for the songs. He had disagreements with JSS.

Derek is the only one who had compositions (two) outside the core group.

Derek is the most aggressive in the web. His online behavior can not seem to be checked, starting from the video leak of Ron Thal.

What all this points to? Derek is the king Son of Apollo. Not Mike Portnoy. SoA is Derek's band.

This all makes perfect sense.  I think many, if not most, of us assumed that it was "Mike's band" or at the very least a band the Mike and Derek were co-leading.  But I don't see any flaw in this line of reasoning.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Stadler on November 15, 2017, 12:05:33 PM
I don't think the two are mutually exclusive.  AC/DC was Malcolm's band, full stop, and yet Angus and Brian were the faces of the band.   Maiden is Steve's band, full stop, but he has, over the years, given Bruce his head to a pretty fair degree.  Kiss is celebrated as a democracy, at least now of two, and Gene is the "Derek" of Kiss, but Paul ("Mike") is the ultimate arbiter.   

But, not to rip old scabs, this is another flaw in the "87 bands" theory.   When you convene for a week or two to write, then convene a month later to record your parts (remember, Mike alluded to the fact that he wasn't around when Jeff recorded his parts under Derek's direction), then convene to do a series of dates, you don't get the organic nature of a band.  You don't get the give and take.  Even Bruce said, in his book, that even though they do other things, Maiden is a full-time gig, and never really stops, it just has it's relative lulls.  Then again, everyone's creative spark is different, and who am I to say?   
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Lethean on November 15, 2017, 12:13:20 PM
I love DT, and I love DT's live shows. But they definitely do not have anywhere close to the energy/rock-show-vibe that bands like Metallica, Maiden, etc. have. Muse are one of the best in that regard too. I understand the point about intimacy and venue size, but those bands sell out stadiums and still put on a hugely energetic show.
I disagree here, but I get that it's just different perspectives.  Maiden does indeed put on a very energetic show.  I just haven't felt that the energy of the crowd is very high, or all that different from a DT show.  I might not be explaining myself well; to me it just doesn't feel like "Maiden - rock show, high energy" and "DT - boring, the crowd is dead, etc."  The vibe of the crowd (to me) is usually pretty intense at a DT show.  I'm not at all criticizing Maiden.
To clarify, I'm not saying that DT shows are boring or that the crowd is dead. I'm sure with all bands it depends on the place. The DT shows I've been to, the crowd has been great. But there's a tangible difference. As a *complete generalisation*, at DT shows people are there (myself included) to pay attention to the music and the performance, whereas at Maiden/Metallica shows people are there to have a blast. Obviously that's entirely over-stating it, but that's the thrust of my experience in London and sometimes other parts of the UK.

I think you're right - it does depend on the place. I was comparing the DT and Maiden shows I've been to in North America.  I don't know what a Maiden show in the UK is like, but I assume it's way different than the DT shows I saw. The NA crowds for the Astonishing tour were more energetic than the UK crowds for I&W. It probably does vary a lot from location to location and venue to venue.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: MirrorMask on November 15, 2017, 12:16:51 PM
Even Bruce said, in his book, that even though they do other things, Maiden is a full-time gig, and never really stops, it just has it's relative lulls.

I would have thought in recent years they had earned the luxury to have big lulls of doing nothing. Writing of albums every 4-5 years in winter, spring rehersals, tour during late spring / summer, and then everyone free to do whatever they want, including 2 months vacations if they will. But probably there's a lot of behind the scene stuff that falls back on the band members too and not just on Rod Smallwood's table.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ganpondorodf on November 15, 2017, 12:24:39 PM
I love DT, and I love DT's live shows. But they definitely do not have anywhere close to the energy/rock-show-vibe that bands like Metallica, Maiden, etc. have. Muse are one of the best in that regard too. I understand the point about intimacy and venue size, but those bands sell out stadiums and still put on a hugely energetic show.
I disagree here, but I get that it's just different perspectives.  Maiden does indeed put on a very energetic show.  I just haven't felt that the energy of the crowd is very high, or all that different from a DT show.  I might not be explaining myself well; to me it just doesn't feel like "Maiden - rock show, high energy" and "DT - boring, the crowd is dead, etc."  The vibe of the crowd (to me) is usually pretty intense at a DT show.  I'm not at all criticizing Maiden.
To clarify, I'm not saying that DT shows are boring or that the crowd is dead. I'm sure with all bands it depends on the place. The DT shows I've been to, the crowd has been great. But there's a tangible difference. As a *complete generalisation*, at DT shows people are there (myself included) to pay attention to the music and the performance, whereas at Maiden/Metallica shows people are there to have a blast. Obviously that's entirely over-stating it, but that's the thrust of my experience in London and sometimes other parts of the UK.

I think you're right - it does depend on the place. I was comparing the DT and Maiden shows I've been to in North America.  I don't know what a Maiden show in the UK is like, but I assume it's way different than the DT shows I saw. The NA crowds for the Astonishing tour were more energetic than the UK crowds for I&W. It probably does vary a lot from location to location and venue to venue.

UK metal crowds are shit. Source: live in UK
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: El Barto on November 15, 2017, 01:10:03 PM
Re. SoA being Derek's band:

I listened to parts of it again yesterday, and my general criticism of the album reflects it being Mike's project. My objection to the album is that it's all pretty derivative. You've got one strong prog epic, a Kansas song, and then a whole bunch of various Portnoy project mashups. I hear plenty of things from both DT and WD in their music, which doesn't relate to DS.

In all fairness, there are parts of it I don't bother listening to because they're shit, so perhaps that's where DS's influence is.

Unrelated, this would have been a far stronger album with Tony Macalpine rather than that Bumbledick fellow. A proper prog bass player would have been a big improvement, as well. Colin Edwin was probably available. Those two changes would have made it a very different, and in my opinion better, project.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Anxiety35 on November 15, 2017, 03:05:30 PM
Re. SoA being Derek's band:

I listened to parts of it again yesterday, and my general criticism of the album reflects it being Mike's project. My objection to the album is that it's all pretty derivative. You've got one strong prog epic, a Kansas song, and then a whole bunch of various Portnoy project mashups. I hear plenty of things from both DT and WD in their music, which doesn't relate to DS.

In all fairness, there are parts of it I don't bother listening to because they're shit, so perhaps that's where DS's influence is.

Unrelated, this would have been a far stronger album with Tony Macalpine rather than that Bumbledick fellow. A proper prog bass player would have been a big improvement, as well. Colin Edwin was probably available. Those two changes would have made it a very different, and in my opinion better, project.

I had similar thoughts about MacAlpine. Although I will have to admit that I think Bumblefoot's playing is excellent on the album.

In all honesty, I thought it would be the PSMS lineup plus a singer. Derek has history with MacAlpine in Planet X, MP has history with Sheehan in Winery Dogs, Derek and MP have history with DT. Plus they did a tour. I'm not disappointed, but I wonder why they went with Bumblefoot instead of MacAlpine. Was MacAlpine's health a factor?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: RodrigoAltaf on November 15, 2017, 07:02:20 PM
I did ask Derek if he invited Tony...the response is in this interview: https://lotsofmuzic.weebly.com/home/derek-sherinian-keyboadist-of-sons-of-apollo-interview
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: El Barto on November 15, 2017, 07:59:03 PM
Quote
Derek: We went straight with Bumblefoot, we wanted to make this into something much more rock than PSMS. Tony was perfect for the instrumental fusion thing, Bumblefoot with his rock background is more suited for Sons of Apollo.
This says a lot, and does make it sound like somewhere along the road it switched from being MP's prog-metal band to MP&DS's metal band.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: TAC on November 15, 2017, 08:06:49 PM
Tweets and bullshit aside, I kind of lost interest in SOA as soon as I heard Derek was involved. I didn't think he was good enough/the right fit for DT in the first place. And now finally MP puts together what is supposed to be a DT style band, and he brings Derek in??
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Herrick on November 15, 2017, 09:13:24 PM
Mike did not stand up for James while he was in the band so I do not expect him to stand up for him now...

Exactly, MP's not going to stand up for an ex-band mate that he didn't stand up for when they were band mates.



What's the story on this?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Adami on November 15, 2017, 09:33:51 PM
Found this tweet from MP. Apparently he and silent Derek wanted to strike back.


Quote
All you Dream Theater fan motherfuckers are gonna pay. You are the ones who are the ball-lickers. We're gonna fuck your mothers while you watch and cry like little, whiny bitches. Once we get to New York and find those Dream Theater fucks who is makin' the album... we're gonna make them eat our shit, then shit out our shit, and then eat their shit that's made up of our shit that we made 'em eat. Then you're all you motherfucks are next. Love- Mike and Silent Derek.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: The Walrus on November 15, 2017, 09:35:25 PM
 :lol :lol :lol
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: JayOctavarium on November 15, 2017, 09:37:41 PM
Found this tweet from MP. Apparently he and silent Derek wanted to strike back.


Quote
All you Dream Theater fan motherfuckers are gonna pay. You are the ones who are the ball-lickers. We're gonna fuck your mothers while you watch and cry like little, whiny bitches. Once we get to New York and find those Dream Theater fucks who is makin' the album... we're gonna make them eat our shit, then shit out our shit, and then eat their shit that's made up of our shit that we made 'em eat. Then you're all you motherfucks are next. Love- Mike and Silent Derek.


Oh

My

God

:heart
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Madman Shepherd on November 16, 2017, 12:03:43 AM
#fanger
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: the keyboard wizard on November 16, 2017, 05:51:22 AM
French speakers, here is Sons of Apollo France, unofficial fan club.
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1969168783361797/
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Sycsa on November 16, 2017, 05:59:52 AM
French speakers, here is Sons of Apollo France, unofficial fan club.
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1969168783361797/
With a whopping 4 members. What's the point of these "fan clubs" anyway, especially in this day and age? What will their activity consist of? SoA has a measly 34k likes on Facebook, but already a gazillion of these "unofficial fan clubs." Does Derek set them up to fuel his delusion of grandeur?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Madman Shepherd on November 16, 2017, 06:09:26 AM
French speakers, here is Sons of Apollo France, unofficial fan club.
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1969168783361797/
With a whopping 4 members. What's the point of these "fan clubs" anyway, especially in this day and age? What will their activity consist of? SoA has a measly 34k likes on Facebook, but already a gazillion of these "unofficial fan clubs." Does Derek set them up to fuel his delusion of grandeur?

Yes. And he mispells Indonesia and waits for Portnoy to point it out to him...on Facebook.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ariich on November 16, 2017, 06:26:33 AM
It's a bit silly to criticise a group for only having 4 members when it's only just been set up. However, having different groups for different countries seems like a really bad idea - isn't it better to have a big global fan group in which they could get lots of activity and discussion and banter or whatever. Even after these groups pick up somewhat (even if they do quite well, which I'm not sure they will), it'll still all be spread across different groups, which probably means each of them not being very active.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Sycsa on November 16, 2017, 06:48:59 AM
It's a bit silly to criticise a group for only having 4 members when it's only just been set up.
That wasn't the point though. The point was that the entire thing is useless. I'm not criticizing the group, I'm criticizing the entire phenomenon. All of these groups have very few members/likes (usually a couple of dozen), none of them will amount to anything, ever, and, like you said, it's a bad idea to fracture the "community" to begin with. They even have a collective page for Latin America, besides having separate pages for Latin American countries. :lol Whatever floats their boat, I guess.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: the keyboard wizard on November 16, 2017, 07:31:52 AM
Of course, the unofficial fan club is still young so there are just 19 members. Would it have been better if the group was called "French fans of SOA?". The point here is to create a community. If I compare with Your Majesty (DT fan club I'm running too), at the beginning of 2017 we only had 200 members and the page had been running for 1 year. That's nothing compared to the 5000 persons who attend the shows in France but we managed to do some cool things and we are still growing.
I think it's better to have "regional chapters", exactly like what Noxon do with DT World. It's easier for the regional chapters to set up meetings and organize things in different countries.
Before starting that new page, I asked myself if it was really relevant as the band is still young and we would have a lot of members. And then I realized that I couldn't organize a meetup before the SOA gigs under the name of Your Majesty aka the French fan club of a band that is laughed at by one of the members of SOA. So I thought it was better to separate what I was doing with Your Majesty for Dream Theater and what I wanted to do for SOA.
I think you need to consider those pages as "let's gather between fans who speak the same language and share our passion for the band, exactly like what we could do on a forum or when we wait before a concert".
I get the fact that SOA has 34k followers but for the French speaking fans, it's not easy to communicate with the rest of the fans if you do not speak proper English.

But we could go further by questionning the existence of fan clubs, now that social medias provide all the information we need and that you need to pay to meet your favourite band.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: JayOctavarium on November 16, 2017, 10:21:59 AM
needs a sonsofapolloforums.org
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bill1971 on November 16, 2017, 10:51:01 AM
needs a sonsofapolloforums.org

Is that still a thing?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Adami on November 16, 2017, 10:51:57 AM
needs a sonsdaughtersandnonbinarygenderedchildrenofapolloforums.org

Fixed.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: JayOctavarium on November 16, 2017, 10:53:48 AM
 :blush

Ooops

Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Adami on November 16, 2017, 10:55:18 AM
:blush

Ooops

GET WOKE SON!
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: JayOctavarium on November 16, 2017, 10:59:59 AM
I'M AN ASSHOLE

I'M SORRY.


Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: RoeDent on November 16, 2017, 01:17:35 PM
needs a sonsofapolloforums.org

There was one, but MP closed it.

Also, what's a Son Sofa Poll O'Forums? A poll for which forum your male child should read when sitting on a couch?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: the keyboard wizard on November 16, 2017, 01:23:34 PM
Sono fap pollo forum? For the fans of speakers, porn and chicken(foot?).
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Sycsa on November 16, 2017, 01:28:37 PM
Sono fap pollo forum? For the fans of speakers, porn and chicken(foot?).
Ciao, sono fap pollo!
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: PetFish on November 16, 2017, 03:26:15 PM
I'M AN ASSHOLE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UrgpZ0fUixs

Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Destiny Of Chaos on November 16, 2017, 05:35:36 PM
Portnoy's performance on OM blows my mind. It's amazing, after everything Mike has been on and done, he still finds new and interesting beats and fills. The man is the best I've ever heard.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: pcs90 on November 16, 2017, 05:41:10 PM
Portnoy's performance on OM blows my mind. It's amazing, after everything Mike has been on and done, he still finds new and interesting beats and fills. The man is the best I've ever heard.
Must be a different Portnoy...
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ytserush on November 16, 2017, 05:54:19 PM
Man, oh man, I can't believe the amount of air time some of you guys are giving to something you profess to not like.   Why spend so much time on something that irks you so much?

Never understood the A-Mob discussion prior to the accident either, but that's just me.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ytserush on November 16, 2017, 05:57:31 PM


Man, oh man, I can't believe the amount of air time some of you guys are giving to something you profess to not like.   Why spend so much time on something that irks you so much?

Because it's human nature and we're no different from people gossiping about TV celebrities or pop stars.

Imagine a scenario where Lady Gaga continues to tweet stuff like #no-whatever-Madonna-is-doing, don't you think fans of Madonna would debate at length how Lady Gaga has no class and blablabla?  well, same with metalheads and the likes. We've all drank deep at the fountain of feuds between Bruce Dickinson and Maiden when they were apart, Ozzy and Sabbath etc...

Clearly, I must live in a different world.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ytserush on November 16, 2017, 06:00:13 PM
Looking at Ron almost makes me want to forget Derek’s sins and buy the album. Almost.

He's got solo albums....
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: ytserush on November 16, 2017, 06:01:45 PM
I still think it's good but I don't know if it will have staying power. And I still think this is a lot of wasted opportunities, some more time spent composing, some more variety and you could have had a great disc.

I'd have to think the second album will be better, especially after the band is road tested.

Agreed. As they gel together and maybe come up with riffs on the road, that could give them some more time to write songs than just pumping them out as fast as they can.

Soundcheck jams.....
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Stadler on November 16, 2017, 09:24:15 PM


Man, oh man, I can't believe the amount of air time some of you guys are giving to something you profess to not like.   Why spend so much time on something that irks you so much?

Because it's human nature and we're no different from people gossiping about TV celebrities or pop stars.

Imagine a scenario where Lady Gaga continues to tweet stuff like #no-whatever-Madonna-is-doing, don't you think fans of Madonna would debate at length how Lady Gaga has no class and blablabla?  well, same with metalheads and the likes. We've all drank deep at the fountain of feuds between Bruce Dickinson and Maiden when they were apart, Ozzy and Sabbath etc...

Clearly, I must live in a different world.

You and me both.
Title: Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
Post by: bill1971 on November 17, 2017, 09:17:21 AM
I still think it's good but I don't know if it will have staying power. And I still think this is a lot of wasted opportunities, some more time spent composing, some more variety and you could have had a great disc.

I'd have to think the second album will be better, especially after the band is road tested.

They will probably complete their second album in a week of soundcheck jams.

Agreed. As they gel together and maybe come up with riffs on the road, that could give them some more time to write songs than just pumping them out as fast as they can.

Soundcheck jams.....
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: rumborak on November 17, 2017, 04:29:51 PM
Am I the only one here who is bothered by this Slam Bam Thank You Mam approach to music? People always rag on music quality, vinyl vs CD, but I cringe when I see bands apparently just not caring enough about their output to spend more than a week on it. Feels like they're working a union job, not clocking a second longer than their contract says.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: The Walrus on November 17, 2017, 04:37:04 PM
Am I the only one here who is bothered by this Slam Bam Thank You Mam approach to music? People always rag on music quality, vinyl vs CD, but I cringe when I see bands apparently just not caring enough about their output to spend more than a week on it. Feels like they're working a union job, not clocking a second longer than their contract says.

*waves hands in front of flashing neon signs* Join the club :)
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: KevShmev on November 17, 2017, 05:03:33 PM
Am I the only one here who is bothered by this Slam Bam Thank You Mam approach to music? People always rag on music quality, vinyl vs CD, but I cringe when I see bands apparently just not caring enough about their output to spend more than a week on it. Feels like they're working a union job, not clocking a second longer than their contract says.

I think it's clear that Mike Portnoy is the anti-Neil Peart.  While Peart loved the creative process in the studio and did touring because he had to, Portnoy loves playing live and appears to not be a big fan of the creative process.  He often talks about how quickly whatever band he is in that week finished an album; he likes to play his drum parts once and be done with them.  I remember the making of Snakes & Arrows where the producer of that album talked about Neil's drum part in The Way the Wind Blows didn't really work as well it could have, to which Neil took the constructive criticism well and took the time to redo the entire song.  Then we have Portnoy on the making of Similitude... basically cringing at the idea of having to redo some drum parts because Neal Morse thought they could have been better.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: King Postwhore on November 17, 2017, 05:20:41 PM
Well at first Neil was pissed.   Nick the producer kept pushing him to be more aggressive in that part of the song and after hearing his recorded part he agreed that the push was beneficial.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Madman Shepherd on November 17, 2017, 05:37:09 PM
Am I the only one here who is bothered by this Slam Bam Thank You Mam approach to music? People always rag on music quality, vinyl vs CD, but I cringe when I see bands apparently just not caring enough about their output to spend more than a week on it. Feels like they're working a union job, not clocking a second longer than their contract says.

I think it's clear that Mike Portnoy is the anti-Neil Peart.  While Peart loved the creative process in the studio and did touring because he had to, Portnoy loves playing live and appears to not be a big fan of the creative process.  He often talks about how quickly whatever band he is in that week finished an album; he likes to play his drum parts once and be done with them. 

I remember in the Dream Theater drummer auditions documentary where at the end, John Petrucci says something along the lines of, "We've been in the studio for a while now and we love it here.  We're all creative people so we're right at home" or something like that.

I seem to remember Portnoy saying the opposite and that he hated the studio. 

My friend got the SoA CD with the studio diary and I was surprised when I read it that they wrote the music even faster than I thought.  I mean, they were there for ten days so I guess I should have assumed they wrote one song a day but in detail Mike writes about the process.  I was also surprised that he was even less involved than I thought in the writing.  To his credit though, he really does give a lot of credit to Bumblefoot and Derek for writing most of the stuff and doesn't overexaggerate his hand in the arrangements. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Stadler on November 17, 2017, 06:20:14 PM
Am I the only one here who is bothered by this Slam Bam Thank You Mam approach to music? People always rag on music quality, vinyl vs CD, but I cringe when I see bands apparently just not caring enough about their output to spend more than a week on it. Feels like they're working a union job, not clocking a second longer than their contract says.

*waves hands in front of flashing neon signs* Join the club :)

First round is on me.  I'm in too.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Stadler on November 17, 2017, 06:24:39 PM
Well at first Neil was pissed.   Nick the producer kept pushing him to be more aggressive in that part of the song and after hearing his recorded part he agreed that the push was beneficial.

If that's the part I'm thinking of (and have cited here a couple times) that passage is REQUIRED for every Rush fan.  The dynamic there is amazing.  The band sort of egged Nick on to talk to Neil - who had worked all day (figuratively) to get it where it was, and he was NOT happy, not at all, to have to do it again.   But when he did it again, he absolutely NAILED it, and walked out and (if I remember correctly) sort of tossed his sticks down and said "Fuck you guys" or something like that.    It was good natured, and was an admission that he was wrong, but it wasn't ALL joking, and it was a powerful moment, and the look on Geddy and Alex's faces - watching their friend in an uncomfortable spot that they partly put him in, but watching him rise not only to the occasion but beyond - is fascinating and emotional to watch.   

I think that is important.  It's not always flowers and rainbows in situations like that.  I don't want to open a can of worms, but I remember James bitching about Mike (and to an extent, John) watching him and telling him what to sing and pushing him.   I don't at all think that is a bad thing.   If it makes the end product better, so be it.  There are plenty of stories of guys going in and getting pissed off and delivering the goods.  Maiden has stories like that.  I think there's a story or two about Alex that way.  Oasis.  Aerosmith.   Whatever it takes.   
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Lethean on November 17, 2017, 09:58:52 PM
Where was that, Stadler? With Neil and Nick, etc? A bonus on Snakes and Arrows? I think I have something but never watched it, or watched part of it. Will need to pull that out.

As for JLB and his vocals, I say leave him be. I think he nailed it and then some on The Astonishing (and DT12 and ADTOE), most being left to his own devices with JP coming in just a little. If that's how he likes to work, and those are the results it brings, carry on.

Re: the time it takes to write an album. I don't like SoA, so I guess I think this album was rushed. But I don't know - maybe none of them are great song writers anyway. I just don't know. It could have been better with more time and thought, but maybe not.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Podaar on November 18, 2017, 07:06:09 AM
Well at first Neil was pissed.   Nick the producer kept pushing him to be more aggressive in that part of the song and after hearing his recorded part he agreed that the push was beneficial.

If that's the part I'm thinking of (and have cited here a couple times) that passage is REQUIRED for every Rush fan.  The dynamic there is amazing.  The band sort of egged Nick on to talk to Neil - who had worked all day (figuratively) to get it where it was, and he was NOT happy, not at all, to have to do it again.   But when he did it again, he absolutely NAILED it, and walked out and (if I remember correctly) sort of tossed his sticks down and said "Fuck you guys" or something like that.    It was good natured, and was an admission that he was wrong, but it wasn't ALL joking, and it was a powerful moment, and the look on Geddy and Alex's faces - watching their friend in an uncomfortable spot that they partly put him in, but watching him rise not only to the occasion but beyond - is fascinating and emotional to watch.   

I think that is important.  It's not always flowers and rainbows in situations like that.  I don't want to open a can of worms, but I remember James bitching about Mike (and to an extent, John) watching him and telling him what to sing and pushing him.   I don't at all think that is a bad thing.   If it makes the end product better, so be it.  There are plenty of stories of guys going in and getting pissed off and delivering the goods.  Maiden has stories like that.  I think there's a story or two about Alex that way.  Oasis.  Aerosmith.   Whatever it takes.

Um, no offense, but neither Mike (or JP for that matter) are Nick Raskulinecz. I think I'd be pissed too if I was an accomplished singer and some wannabe producers were telling me, "I'd like a death metal growl or two for this part." Both SoA and DT should be so lucky as to have "Booujzhe" produce any of their projects and I'm almost certain that JLB would be receptive to his direction because he actually knows what he's doing.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Madman Shepherd on November 18, 2017, 07:44:24 AM

As for JLB and his vocals, I say leave him be. I think he nailed it and then some on The Astonishing (and DT12 and ADTOE), most being left to his own devices with JP coming in just a little. If that's how he likes to work, and those are the results it brings, carry on.


...and Images and Words and Awake were recorded with James pretty much left to himself.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Orbert on November 18, 2017, 09:38:09 AM
It's a tough call.  The person who wrote the song has a vision for how they want it to sound, how they want the melodies and instrumentals to work, everything.  Or at least it's not uncommon.  To that end, they'll work with the others and try to get the song to sound like how they want it.  You can tell the bassist that you had a specific thing in mind, or the drummer, or the keyboard player, but not the vocalist?  Is the vocalist somehow off limits and gets to do things however he wants?

That said, I can see how having both JP and MP there telling JLB what to do would get pretty oppressive.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Architeuthis on November 18, 2017, 09:59:20 AM
James should be pretty much the captian of the ship for calling the shots on the vocals. He did an outstanding job on TA!
It doesn't mean that the songwriters and band members can't offer suggestions..
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: KevShmev on November 18, 2017, 12:11:43 PM
I had yet to hear Opus Maximus until this morning (YT is the only place I have checked out their songs and that song wasn't uploaded there until earlier this week), but now having heard it, what the hell?  What a complete and utter mess that song is. Songs like that are what give prog a bad name.  It is a total wankfest, bouncing from idea to idea with no cohesion or flow whatsoever.  If they wrote the whole album in 10 days, it sounds like they threw that one together in less than an hour.  Holy smokes, can I please have those 9 minutes back?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Adami on November 18, 2017, 02:11:22 PM
I had yet to hear Opus Maximus until this morning (YT is the only place I have checked out their songs and that song wasn't uploaded there until earlier this week), but now having heard it, what the hell?  What a complete and utter mess that song is. Songs like that are what give prog a bad name.  It is a total wankfest, bouncing from idea to idea with no cohesion or flow whatsoever.  If they wrote the whole album in 10 days, it sounds like they threw that one together in less than an hour.  Holy smokes, can I please have those 9 minutes back?

I've heard that song like 4-5 times at least and I honestly cannot remember a single moment outside of the fact that there was a cool drum/bass thing at one point, but i have no idea what it sounds like, just that I enjoyed it when I heard it.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: The Silent Cody on November 18, 2017, 02:27:24 PM
I had yet to hear Opus Maximus until this morning (YT is the only place I have checked out their songs and that song wasn't uploaded there until earlier this week), but now having heard it, what the hell?  What a complete and utter mess that song is. Songs like that are what give prog a bad name.  It is a total wankfest, bouncing from idea to idea with no cohesion or flow whatsoever.  If they wrote the whole album in 10 days, it sounds like they threw that one together in less than an hour.  Holy smokes, can I please have those 9 minutes back?

I've heard that song like 4-5 times at least and I honestly cannot remember a single moment outside of the fact that there was a cool drum/bass thing at one point, but i have no idea what it sounds like, just that I enjoyed it when I heard it.
Yeah, I have the same feeling about that one. Totally forgottable stuff, it was quite dissappointment for me, I expected Opus Maximus to be opus maximus but it turns out to be mini minimus... another worst song from Psychotic Symphony for me is Lost In Oblivion, I remember only the chorus, anything else...  Other songs are quite good, even after two months with this record I think that I wouldn't change my opinion about it and still give it a 7/10
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Orbert on November 18, 2017, 02:54:30 PM
James should be pretty much the captian of the ship for calling the shots on the vocals. He did an outstanding job on TA!
It doesn't mean that the songwriters and band members can't offer suggestions..

Suggestions, yes.  But if you're the singer, and the guitarist and drummer for some reason are there in the booth with you telling you how to sing certain parts, that's gotta suck.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on November 18, 2017, 02:57:05 PM
I had yet to hear Opus Maximus until this morning (YT is the only place I have checked out their songs and that song wasn't uploaded there until earlier this week), but now having heard it, what the hell?  What a complete and utter mess that song is. Songs like that are what give prog a bad name.  It is a total wankfest, bouncing from idea to idea with no cohesion or flow whatsoever.  If they wrote the whole album in 10 days, it sounds like they threw that one together in less than an hour.  Holy smokes, can I please have those 9 minutes back?

I've heard that song like 4-5 times at least and I honestly cannot remember a single moment outside of the fact that there was a cool drum/bass thing at one point, but i have no idea what it sounds like, just that I enjoyed it when I heard it.

I think I'm one of the few who enjoys this song but then again I also think JSSs vocals may be my least favorite part of the album.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Adami on November 18, 2017, 03:08:18 PM
James should be pretty much the captian of the ship for calling the shots on the vocals. He did an outstanding job on TA!
It doesn't mean that the songwriters and band members can't offer suggestions..

Suggestions, yes.  But if you're the singer, and the guitarist and drummer for some reason are there in the booth with you telling you how to sing certain parts, that's gotta suck.

It depends who wrote it. I mean, imagine you wrote a movie script, and noticing an actor is just NOT saying a line how you wrote it, do you just say "well, they're the actor so they get to decide?" or do you tell them how you wrote it?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Anguyen92 on November 18, 2017, 03:38:58 PM
James should be pretty much the captian of the ship for calling the shots on the vocals. He did an outstanding job on TA!
It doesn't mean that the songwriters and band members can't offer suggestions..

Suggestions, yes.  But if you're the singer, and the guitarist and drummer for some reason are there in the booth with you telling you how to sing certain parts, that's gotta suck.

It depends who wrote it. I mean, imagine you wrote a movie script, and noticing an actor is just NOT saying a line how you wrote it, do you just say "well, they're the actor so they get to decide?" or do you tell them how you wrote it?

I think this is the point where you going to have to trust the actor's judgment since they probably have the best idea of how to express the right emotion that fits the scene.  I mean if an actor/vocalist recites a line/lyric, word for word, people could interpret that kind of approach thinking that the actor/vocalist lacks passion.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Adami on November 18, 2017, 03:42:52 PM
Yes, but 100% of the time? For instance I just finished recording vocals to my album with a cool singer. Most everything he got fine. I sent him the demos of me doing and he got it. But a few parts he did the wrong accents (like emphasizing the wrong word in a sentence or something) and I had to correct him. I don't see an issue with that.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Ben_Jamin on November 18, 2017, 04:16:31 PM
Arjen knows how to work with and push the Singers he gets.

MP felt like songs needed tough guy vocals so he did them instead.

I bet JSS would be a lot better if he had free reign. But Derek wanted vocals a certain way and he got them his way, I'm sure JSS said "it feels better this way" yet DS shot him down hence the arguments.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: erwinrafael on November 18, 2017, 04:44:13 PM
JSS tweeted before that he liked Alive because he was already part of the writing. Based on the credits, it appears that Alive and Divine Addiction are the last two songs to be written. Incidentally, those songs had the best vocals in the album.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Cool Chris on November 18, 2017, 04:56:30 PM
I mean, imagine you wrote a movie script, and noticing an actor is just NOT saying a line how you wrote it, do you just say "well, they're the actor so they get to decide?" or do you tell them how you wrote it?

If you wrote a film script, you are not on the set directing the actors on how to deliver their lines. Chances are you never even met with the actors at any point in the process. You probably wrote the lines before the movie was even cast. Working as a band writing an album is a different process.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: rumborak on November 18, 2017, 06:15:47 PM
Isn't this just what managers do in companies? That is, you have to strike the fine balance between enough guidance to get the best end result, but not micromanaging in order not to stifle people's creativity.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Adami on November 18, 2017, 06:19:29 PM
I mean, imagine you wrote a movie script, and noticing an actor is just NOT saying a line how you wrote it, do you just say "well, they're the actor so they get to decide?" or do you tell them how you wrote it?

If you wrote a film script, you are not on the set directing the actors on how to deliver their lines. Chances are you never even met with the actors at any point in the process. You probably wrote the lines before the movie was even cast. Working as a band writing an album is a different process.

Sometimes. Sometimes the writers are there, especially if they're also directing. But that totally misses my point either way.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bill1971 on November 18, 2017, 06:50:01 PM
I had yet to hear Opus Maximus until this morning (YT is the only place I have checked out their songs and that song wasn't uploaded there until earlier this week), but now having heard it, what the hell?  What a complete and utter mess that song is. Songs like that are what give prog a bad name.  It is a total wankfest, bouncing from idea to idea with no cohesion or flow whatsoever.  If they wrote the whole album in 10 days, it sounds like they threw that one together in less than an hour.  Holy smokes, can I please have those 9 minutes back?

Same hear. I only heard the songs on YT as well. Sometimes I like to hear songs before buying them. Terrible song.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: gzarruk on November 18, 2017, 08:56:37 PM
I had yet to hear Opus Maximus until this morning (YT is the only place I have checked out their songs and that song wasn't uploaded there until earlier this week), but now having heard it, what the hell?  What a complete and utter mess that song is. Songs like that are what give prog a bad name.  It is a total wankfest, bouncing from idea to idea with no cohesion or flow whatsoever.  If they wrote the whole album in 10 days, it sounds like they threw that one together in less than an hour.  Holy smokes, can I please have those 9 minutes back?

Same hear. I only heard the songs on YT as well. Sometimes I like to hear songs before buying them. Terrible song.

Yeah, what Kev said. This reminds me of something very interesting Gavin Harrison said here: https://youtu.be/woI6t8dCQcQ?t=47m20s (47:20 - 48:10). He talks about writing songs from great ideas vs getting a bunch of liks and pasting them together and call it a song. Opus Maximus, and most of the SOA album, suffers a lot from the latter.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: portnoy311 on November 18, 2017, 10:05:28 PM
I love Gavin. I think his approach to music and playing are perfect foils for a lot of the critiques I have of MP as a drummer and his projects.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: MirrorMask on November 19, 2017, 03:02:56 AM
The melodic intro and outro of Opus Maximus is not that bad, actually it's quite good. It's everything else in between that it's kinda forgettable.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ytserush on November 19, 2017, 11:11:19 AM
Am I the only one here who is bothered by this Slam Bam Thank You Mam approach to music? People always rag on music quality, vinyl vs CD, but I cringe when I see bands apparently just not caring enough about their output to spend more than a week on it. Feels like they're working a union job, not clocking a second longer than their contract says.

I don't like it either, but in a world of declining revenue it's more cost effective to do it that way. 

Not a fan of musicians working on projects without ever spending a second in the same room together, but that's just me.  Seems to be where we are at.

Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Stadler on November 19, 2017, 11:43:43 AM
It's a tough call.  The person who wrote the song has a vision for how they want it to sound, how they want the melodies and instrumentals to work, everything.  Or at least it's not uncommon.  To that end, they'll work with the others and try to get the song to sound like how they want it.  You can tell the bassist that you had a specific thing in mind, or the drummer, or the keyboard player, but not the vocalist?  Is the vocalist somehow off limits and gets to do things however he wants?

That said, I can see how having both JP and MP there telling JLB what to do would get pretty oppressive.

Um, I'm pretty sure that if Bruce and Clarence/Roy/Max/Garry/Stevie/Nils have a disagreement on whether a sax/keys/drum/bass/guitar part works or not, only one voice counts.   Same with Bon Jovi.  Same with AC/DC.   Same with Iron Maiden.   

We want our pet bands to be all smiles and fun and friends, but the reality is, they're not.   
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Orbert on November 19, 2017, 06:31:27 PM
Only one voice counts?  Whose?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Orbert on November 19, 2017, 10:32:10 PM
I'm not even disagreeing with you, Stadler, I honestly don't know what you're saying.  Who are Bruce, Clarence, Roy... wait, the E-Street band?  That's Bruce's band.  What would that have to do with a band like Dream Theater, a supposed collective?  Bon Jovi is obviously Jon Bon Jovi's band, duh.  But I don't know enough about AC/DC or Iron Maiden to know who the obvious one voice would be.

And I still don't see how that applies to Dream Theater.  JLB is recording vocals.  Both JP and MP are literally breathing on him, telling him what to sing and how to sing it.  Whose is the one voice that counts?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bosk1 on November 20, 2017, 09:24:53 AM
I'm not even disagreeing with you, Stadler, I honestly don't know what you're saying.  Who are Bruce, Clarence, Roy... wait, the E-Street band?  That's Bruce's band.  What would that have to do with a band like Dream Theater, a supposed collective?  Bon Jovi is obviously Jon Bon Jovi's band, duh.  But I don't know enough about AC/DC or Iron Maiden to know who the obvious one voice would be.

And I still don't see how that applies to Dream Theater.  JLB is recording vocals.  Both JP and MP are literally breathing on him, telling him what to sing and how to sing it.  Whose is the one voice that counts?
Well, from everything I've heard, for AC/DC, Angus ultimately calls the shots, and the music gets put together the way he ultimately wants it.  In Maiden, the same goes with Steve Harris.  When you have guys that have worked together that long, there is a lot of trust built up over the years that leads to a lot of freedom being given.  So it may not look/feel like one person has the final say to someone on the outside.  But that's still the reality when you get right down to it.  I think Rumborak's analogy is pretty spot on:

Isn't this just what managers do in companies? That is, you have to strike the fine balance between enough guidance to get the best end result, but not micromanaging in order not to stifle people's creativity.

With DT, I think your view of them as a "collective" is inaccurate.  I mean, it isn't a dictatorship.  But when it comes to writing the music and the creative vision, not all voices are equal in the band, and it has been that way since day 1.  Remember that when they started, the idea was that the instrumentalists (primarily JP and MP) called the creative shots.  Charlie was told in no uncertain terms that, basically, his job was to come in and sing what he was told to sing, and stay out of the way to let the instrumentalists shine.  Same thing with James when he was brought in.  The tricky thing is, it's also real life, and expectations and how they are applied in real life change.  They don't stay exactly the same, and are dynamic and fluid.  So remember that by the time they got to the recording of SFAM, James basically decided that, since he didn't really have much input into the music, and would just come in and sing the parts assigned to him once the music was done, he would rather be outside playing basketball than be present in the studio when the others were writing/recording.  And some or all of the others decided they didn't really like that.  Hence, they told him they wanted him more engaged when it came to the SDOIT sessions.  But still, going forward even from that point, John and Mike still drove the overall direction of the songs, including providing oversight and direction on a lot of James' vocals.  It has basically ALWAYS been that way in DT, even if the amount of oversight and direction has ebbed and flowed from time to time.

Mike was part of that in DT.  And that is the environment when Derek was in DT.  So it is natural for them to have a similar model in SoA.  And as far as we know, it is working for them, so it really isn't for us on the outside to say that it is somehow wrong. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Orbert on November 20, 2017, 11:48:03 AM
So I ask again: whose is the one voice that counts?  I keep hearing "MP and JP".  That's two.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Lowdz on November 20, 2017, 12:06:30 PM
So I ask again: whose is the one voice that counts?  I keep hearing "MP and JP".  That's two.

I’m sure I’ve heard them say it was decided by who fought the hardest for a particular idea.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Orbert on November 20, 2017, 12:50:51 PM
Apparently I'm not being clear.

I agree that the singer is subject to "suggestions" as to how to perform any particular part, the same as any of the instrumentalists.  I even asked the rhetorical question about whether or not the singer was somehow exempt from that.

I then said that it would still suck to have the fucking drummer and guitarist telling you how to do things.  Because it would.  I'm thinking in particular of that one picture with James at the mike, recording his parts, and both MP and JP are there telling him what to do.  Let's face it, no one likes being told what to do, but if it's your job to do what you're told, okay.  But two people, both there, both telling you what to do?

Then Stadler started talking about Bruce and Roy and a bunch of other people and how there's only one voice that counts.

So the question is:  Whose is the one voice that counts?  There does not appear to be an answer for that, even though everyone seems to say that there's definitely one.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Lowdz on November 20, 2017, 01:23:50 PM
Ah, got it, should have read higher. Count me in the “let the singer do his thing” camp. Unless he’s fucking up your song.  :facepalm:
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Cool Chris on November 20, 2017, 01:26:34 PM
Count me in the “let the singer do his thing” camp. Unless he’s fucking up your song.  :facepalm:

That's a huge gray area though. Someone might equate "He isn't doing it exactly like I asked!!!" as "fucking up their song."
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Lowdz on November 20, 2017, 02:00:46 PM
Count me in the “let the singer do his thing” camp. Unless he’s fucking up your song.  :facepalm:

That's a huge gray area though. Someone might equate "He isn't doing it exactly like I asked!!!" as "fucking up their song."

True, it would hugely depend on the personality of the writer.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Stadler on November 20, 2017, 02:31:58 PM
I'm not even disagreeing with you, Stadler, I honestly don't know what you're saying.  Who are Bruce, Clarence, Roy... wait, the E-Street band?  That's Bruce's band.  What would that have to do with a band like Dream Theater, a supposed collective?  Bon Jovi is obviously Jon Bon Jovi's band, duh.  But I don't know enough about AC/DC or Iron Maiden to know who the obvious one voice would be.

And I still don't see how that applies to Dream Theater.  JLB is recording vocals.  Both JP and MP are literally breathing on him, telling him what to sing and how to sing it.  Whose is the one voice that counts?

AC/DC:   If Malcolm says (said) "Jump!" I'm pretty sure that Cliff, Brian and [whoever is in the drum chair; this is why Phil left the first time] says "How high?"
Maiden:  Harris
Skid Row:   Bach is not in the band because Rachel Bolan and Dave Sabo run the show.   

I think it gets a little squirrelly in a collective, but you can only have five opinions going so far, IF one decides to push back on the prevailing winds.   Many bands just have members - Charlie Watts - that let the others get on with it.   

There's a great bootleg of the recording of Going For The One where Anderson is literally telling Rick Wakeman what to play (on the swirling ending, with the circular, ascending keyboard parts).   
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: TAC on November 20, 2017, 02:51:22 PM
So the question is:  Whose is the one voice that counts? 

Bosk.

 ;D
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bosk1 on November 20, 2017, 07:47:40 PM
Apparently I'm not being clear.

I agree that the singer is subject to "suggestions" as to how to perform any particular part, the same as any of the instrumentalists.  I even asked the rhetorical question about whether or not the singer was somehow exempt from that.

I then said that it would still suck to have the fucking drummer and guitarist telling you how to do things.  Because it would.  I'm thinking in particular of that one picture with James at the mike, recording his parts, and both MP and JP are there telling him what to do.  Let's face it, no one likes being told what to do, but if it's your job to do what you're told, okay.  But two people, both there, both telling you what to do?

Then Stadler started talking about Bruce and Roy and a bunch of other people and how there's only one voice that counts.

So the question is:  Whose is the one voice that counts?  There does not appear to be an answer for that, even though everyone seems to say that there's definitely one.

It doesn't necessarily have to be "one."  That isn't the point.  In DT now, I think it boils down to JP.   But since JP and MP co-produced when MP was still in the band, I think they both had a lot of say.  It seems like Mike was allowed a lot of input into the vocals.  But then again, over the course of SEVERAL album's worth of "making of" vidoes, we get maybe, what, 10 minutes of total time to judge by?  So it's hard to say for sure.  But that's how it goes. 

And I think you're wrong that it "sucks" to have someone tell you how to do your job.  I could be wrong, but I just don't think most people in established bands that write original music look at it that way.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Orbert on November 20, 2017, 10:28:36 PM
It doesn't necessarily have to be "one."  That isn't the point. 

Yes, it is.  I was speaking in general terms, about trying to do your job while two guys are telling you what to do, and someone said that there's only one voice that counts.  So I asked who that one person would be.  I got lots of answers, but no one actually answered the question I asked.  So I restated it, and still no one answered it.  Look, I wouldn't even give a shit, but I made what I thought was a general statement, and someone started talking about Dave and Brian and Marty or whoever, and how there's only one voice that counts.  I would just like to know who that one person is.  That is the point I was making.

And I think you're wrong that it "sucks" to have someone tell you how to do your job.  I could be wrong, but I just don't think most people in established bands that write original music look at it that way.

I never said that, either.  I said it would suck to be trying to do your job while two people are telling you how to do it.  Because it does.


This has gone on far too long, and I obviously am the one lacking in communication skills here, since no one seems to understand what I'm saying, no matter how many different ways I phrase it, so I'm out.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Adami on November 20, 2017, 10:36:33 PM
I think I see the situation here.

Stadler: Only one voice matters.

Orbert: Whose is the one voice that matters?

Other people not Stadler: It's not one voice that matters.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Mosh on November 20, 2017, 10:42:36 PM
I think I get Orbert's point. Having one guy who's a clear boss (e.g. Steve Harris or Frank Zappa) is one thing because those are the conditions that are expected in those bands. I imagine having two guys telling you what to do could possibly cause more pressure or create the feeling of being ganged up on. JP and MP may have been the one collective "voice" but it's still two guys telling one person what to do.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Adami on November 20, 2017, 10:56:19 PM
Reminded me of this for some reason.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IwlZQJyKZ2A
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: The Silent Cody on November 20, 2017, 11:04:16 PM
Well if I were a singer and had to sing that, like what somebody tells me to - I would not be happy. I'm a bassist and of course I agree with any criticism thrown in me, but when somebody tells me what to play, and how to play I get angry. And of course, my performance is worse then. But, I think it all depends from people with You are working to... If somebody tells You what to do, for example like that - "Play, or sing LIKE THAT AND NO ANY OTHER WAY" - it's bad. But when somebody is trying to get to You in that way - "You know, maybe You should try something like that, or that. What You're playing is good, but maybe something else would be better". Not saying what to do in 100% to somebody but to left some space for musicians mind to figure it out themselves, is better.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: wolfking on November 21, 2017, 04:29:11 AM
I finally got around to listening to this album today.  I had it in the car so got a pretty good earful.  I might have been one of the blandest, uninspiring, generic prog metal releases I've heard in a long time.  I have no desire to listen to it again. 

The songs lack good songwriting and all the riffs on offer are pedestrian and unimaginative.  JSS does great to be honest, but the melodies just don't do him any favours.  I thought Alive was the most natural and ebtertaining piece that didn't feel forced liked all the others. 

The structures are disjointed and a lot of the album feels like just pieces put together and lacks flow.  Ron is the shining light here and if anything makes me realise how good of a guitarist he is, and probably should check some of his work out. 

MP's backsup though make me cringe to be honest.  And I don't know why all the heavy instrumental sections he's trying to make sound like This Dying Soul.  To me anyway.  Disappointing and MP and Derek really should stop shooting their mouths off, because they certainly don't back it up here.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: mikeyd23 on November 21, 2017, 08:09:28 AM
I finally got around to listening to this album today.  I had it in the car so got a pretty good earful.  I might have been one of the blandest, uninspiring, generic prog metal releases I've heard in a long time.  I have no desire to listen to it again. 

The songs lack good songwriting and all the riffs on offer are pedestrian and unimaginative.  JSS does great to be honest, but the melodies just don't do him any favours.  I thought Alive was the most natural and ebtertaining piece that didn't feel forced liked all the others. 

The structures are disjointed and a lot of the album feels like just pieces put together and lacks flow.  Ron is the shining light here and if anything makes me realise how good of a guitarist he is, and probably should check some of his work out. 

MP's backsup though make me cringe to be honest.  And I don't know why all the heavy instrumental sections he's trying to make sound like This Dying Soul.  To me anyway.  Disappointing and MP and Derek really should stop shooting their mouths off, because they certainly don't back it up here.

I agree with pretty much all that wolf.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bill1971 on November 21, 2017, 08:42:27 AM
I finally got around to listening to this album today.  I had it in the car so got a pretty good earful.  I might have been one of the blandest, uninspiring, generic prog metal releases I've heard in a long time.  I have no desire to listen to it again. 

The songs lack good songwriting and all the riffs on offer are pedestrian and unimaginative.  JSS does great to be honest, but the melodies just don't do him any favours.  I thought Alive was the most natural and ebtertaining piece that didn't feel forced liked all the others. 

The structures are disjointed and a lot of the album feels like just pieces put together and lacks flow.  Ron is the shining light here and if anything makes me realise how good of a guitarist he is, and probably should check some of his work out. 

MP's backsup though make me cringe to be honest.  And I don't know why all the heavy instrumental sections he's trying to make sound like This Dying Soul.  To me anyway.  Disappointing and MP and Derek really should stop shooting their mouths off, because they certainly don't back it up here.

I agree with pretty much all that wolf.

So do I.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: vtgrad on November 21, 2017, 08:49:03 AM
It doesn't necessarily have to be "one."  That isn't the point. 

Yes, it is.  I was speaking in general terms, about trying to do your job while two guys are telling you what to do, and someone said that there's only one voice that counts.  So I asked who that one person would be.  I got lots of answers, but no one actually answered the question I asked.  So I restated it, and still no one answered it.  Look, I wouldn't even give a shit, but I made what I thought was a general statement, and someone started talking about Dave and Brian and Marty or whoever, and how there's only one voice that counts.  I would just like to know who that one person is.  That is the point I was making.

And I think you're wrong that it "sucks" to have someone tell you how to do your job.  I could be wrong, but I just don't think most people in established bands that write original music look at it that way.

I never said that, either.  I said it would suck to be trying to do your job while two people are telling you how to do it.  Because it does.


This has gone on far too long, and I obviously am the one lacking in communication skills here, since no one seems to understand what I'm saying, no matter how many different ways I phrase it, so I'm out.

I think I've got you O... Let me give it a try.

There's a vid (maybe during the making of BC&SL) where JP and MP have made a contract regarding a certain riff... an actual paper contract that had the chord progression written down I think.  Anyway, MP was arguing for a change after the contract was written and JP says (paraphrasing of course) "Well, might as well rip this up" and proceeds to rip the scrap of paper up and MP wins the argument for that particular riff.

I think the ONE voice, at least at that particular time in DT, was the voice the argued the loudest and finally wore down all the other voices... like a stone being worn away by water.  So perhaps it's likely that the one voice almost always was the loudest voice between MP and JP... maybe that's why two names keep getting thrown at you.

Regarding Skid Row... as much as I love Snake (and I do love him and his style), I personally think they made a mistake with Bach.  I've said it before here I think, in the early 90's, they were something to behold live with Bach in front.  And all that anger, frustration, and personal tension made for some awesome writing.

On track for the thread, I honestly haven't listened to SOA yet.  Wouldn't know where to start actually.  Didn't JSS sing for Journey at one point?

So the question is:  Whose is the one voice that counts? 

Bosk.

 ;D

Nobody likes a suck a$$   :biggrin:
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bosk1 on November 21, 2017, 09:22:21 AM
^Yeah, I think that's a good way to look at it.
On track for the thread, I honestly haven't listened to SOA yet.  Wouldn't know where to start actually.

Um...it's one album.  Start there, maybe?  I don't see the dilemma.  :lol

Didn't JSS sing for Journey at one point?

Yes.  But only on tour.  He never recorded with them.  From everything I've heard, Schon and Cain brought him in and made it sound like he was "the guy," and then unceremoniously dumped him at the end of the tour.  Ultimately, I don't really disagree with the decision not to keep him.  As much as I like him as a singer and person, his voice wasn't right for Journey, and he doesn't have the range to sing an entire set of Journey material night in and night out.  It's more the way it was handled that left a bad taste in people's mouths.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: MirrorMask on November 21, 2017, 09:23:07 AM
On track for the thread, I honestly haven't listened to SOA yet.  Wouldn't know where to start actually. 

Well, usually track 1 of the album is a nice place to start.

 ;D
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: vtgrad on November 21, 2017, 09:45:20 AM
Thanks Captains Obvious  :biggrin:  My intention by saying I didn't know where to start was along the line of which track to start with... seems like some of the tracks are divisive.  You guys know what I mean... now a' days we just don't have the time for full albums anymore.  Who starts at track one?  ;)

With regard to JSS and Journey; thanks for the explanation Bosk.  Didn't know that story.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: The Walrus on November 21, 2017, 10:06:34 AM
People just don't have the time for albums anymore.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Miyazaki74 on November 21, 2017, 10:14:59 AM
People just don't have the time for albums anymore.


Why don't people have time for albums anymore? Did something change in the space time continuum that I don't know about? I'm sure everyone has their down time when they could just listen to a measly album. Or are people just bored of listening to albums as a whole?  That I would probably believe more than OMG we have no TIME!!!!! We are all running out of TIME!!!!! The horror!!! Lol sorry I'm being silly  :P
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Architeuthis on November 21, 2017, 10:17:11 AM
^Yeah, I think that's a good way to look at it.
On track for the thread, I honestly haven't listened to SOA yet.  Wouldn't know where to start actually.

Um...it's one album.  Start there, maybe?  I don't see the dilemma.  :lol

Didn't JSS sing for Journey at one point?

Yes.  But only on tour.  He never recorded with them.  From everything I've heard, Schon and Cain brought him in and made it sound like he was "the guy," and then unceremoniously dumped him at the end of the tour.  Ultimately, I don't really disagree with the decision not to keep him.  As much as I like him as a singer and person, his voice wasn't right for Journey, and he doesn't have the range to sing an entire set of Journey material night in and night out.  It's more the way it was handled that left a bad taste in people's mouths.
I didn't like the way they handled the Steve Perry thing in the late nineties. They were about to tour the Trial By Fire album and Steve Perry was injured while hiking in Hawaii. The band pretty much said they couldn't wait for him and went on without him. 
However, I thought Steve Augeri was a good fit in journey, probably more so than Arnel Pineda.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: SwedishGoose on November 21, 2017, 10:46:11 AM
Thanks Captains Obvious  :biggrin:  My intention by saying I didn't know where to start was along the line of which track to start with... seems like some of the tracks are divisive.  You guys know what I mean... now a' days we just don't have the time for full albums anymore.  Who starts at track one?  ;)

With regard to JSS and Journey; thanks for the explanation Bosk.  Didn't know that story.


Track 3, 3.33 - 4.01
Track 5, 4.11 - 4.34
Track 4, 2.13 - 2.48
Track 3, 2.56 - 3.28
Track 6, 1.13 - 2.03

Should give you a good indication of where this album is heading 😉
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Stadler on November 21, 2017, 10:53:01 AM
It doesn't necessarily have to be "one."  That isn't the point. 

Yes, it is.  I was speaking in general terms, about trying to do your job while two guys are telling you what to do, and someone said that there's only one voice that counts.  So I asked who that one person would be.  I got lots of answers, but no one actually answered the question I asked.  So I restated it, and still no one answered it.  Look, I wouldn't even give a shit, but I made what I thought was a general statement, and someone started talking about Dave and Brian and Marty or whoever, and how there's only one voice that counts.  I would just like to know who that one person is.  That is the point I was making.

If you're splitting hairs on the "one", well, that's my fault.  I don't know that it has to be ONE and only ONE.   It can be two.  My point is, it's not an equal democracy, and the vocalist has final say on all things vocal, and the bass player has final say on all things bass, etc.  The real leader may also defer certain things to another (this is how Maiden works; it's all Steve, unless it's Bruce, but at the end of the day, it's Steve.   There are two Maiden albums after Bruce first joined without Bruce, there are NO Maiden albums without Steve.  You can do the math.)   

In Dream Theater, I think it's now John, I think back before 2010, it was Mike and John on musical matters, Mike on everything else.  I think it says in Lifting Shadows that if there was a time that Mike and John disagreed

Quote
And I think you're wrong that it "sucks" to have someone tell you how to do your job.  I could be wrong, but I just don't think most people in established bands that write original music look at it that way.

I never said that, either.  I said it would suck to be trying to do your job while two people are telling you how to do it.  Because it does.


This has gone on far too long, and I obviously am the one lacking in communication skills here, since no one seems to understand what I'm saying, no matter how many different ways I phrase it, so I'm out.

I think that's down to the person.   Dave Murray, Bill Wyman, Adam Clayton, Alex Van Halen, Mike Anthony, Brad Whitford... none seem to have much problem being told what to play.   I know when I was in my band in Philly, I played what I was told.  I was sometimes asked what I would do - and I would tell them - but if another idea won, I played it.  Boom.   
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ariich on November 21, 2017, 01:09:15 PM
now a' days we just don't have the time for full albums anymore.
Nonsense.

Exhibit A: https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=51115.0
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Nekov on November 21, 2017, 01:57:20 PM
Thanks Captains Obvious  :biggrin:  My intention by saying I didn't know where to start was along the line of which track to start with... seems like some of the tracks are divisive.  You guys know what I mean... now a' days we just don't have the time for full albums anymore.  Who starts at track one?  ;)

With regard to JSS and Journey; thanks for the explanation Bosk.  Didn't know that story.

Just listen to the album in order, the first track is probably one od the best in the album so it should help you get through it.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: wolfking on November 21, 2017, 02:21:16 PM
I finally got around to listening to this album today.  I had it in the car so got a pretty good earful.  I might have been one of the blandest, uninspiring, generic prog metal releases I've heard in a long time.  I have no desire to listen to it again. 

The songs lack good songwriting and all the riffs on offer are pedestrian and unimaginative.  JSS does great to be honest, but the melodies just don't do him any favours.  I thought Alive was the most natural and ebtertaining piece that didn't feel forced liked all the others. 

The structures are disjointed and a lot of the album feels like just pieces put together and lacks flow.  Ron is the shining light here and if anything makes me realise how good of a guitarist he is, and probably should check some of his work out. 

MP's backsup though make me cringe to be honest.  And I don't know why all the heavy instrumental sections he's trying to make sound like This Dying Soul.  To me anyway.  Disappointing and MP and Derek really should stop shooting their mouths off, because they certainly don't back it up here.

I agree with pretty much all that wolf.

So do I.

That's good boys.  I did try and go in with no pre judgement and have an open mind which I'm confident in that I did.  Disappointing album.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Destiny Of Chaos on November 21, 2017, 02:34:47 PM
Loved the album and can't stop spinning it. To each their own
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: wolfking on November 21, 2017, 05:07:20 PM
Loved the album and can't stop spinning it. To each their own

I'm glad people like it.  It would be a waste of the talent involved for it to be a flop according to everyone.

Also, WTF is that Figaro's Whore, what the hell is Derek thinking there?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: TAC on November 21, 2017, 05:09:16 PM

Also, WTF is that Figaro's Whore, what the hell is Derek thinking there?

*I wish I had an app or something*
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: KevShmev on November 21, 2017, 05:59:51 PM
Loved the album and can't stop spinning it. To each their own

Fanboys gonna fanboy.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bosk1 on November 21, 2017, 07:31:31 PM
Oh, please!  You are the LAST person to be throwing the "fanboy" tag around!  :lol
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Anguyen92 on November 21, 2017, 08:41:43 PM
For those that do care, Sons of Apollo does have a show booked.  It's the Rambling Man Fair in England in June 2018.  I believe Dream Theater played this festival back in 2015 for their 30th anniversary tour.  I presume SOA may do some other festivals around Europe that period since every band that's active does the same.  A headliner has yet to be announced, but Halestorm, a band that's been on the rise, is main support.

(https://scontent-lht6-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/23800205_1254202084726554_3071619630997525845_o.jpg?oh=be3d3ed31a8950607040d532393582a0&oe=5AA4CCD9)
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Adami on November 21, 2017, 08:55:35 PM
Ramblin Man? What an odd choice of audience for their music.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: King Postwhore on November 21, 2017, 08:58:29 PM
I was thinking the same thing.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Adami on November 21, 2017, 09:00:36 PM
I was thinking the same thing.

Are we sure it's the same band? I know multiple bands have that name. I assume it's them, but man.....odd choice.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: King Postwhore on November 21, 2017, 09:15:48 PM
I was thinking southern rock style kind of music and then Sons of Apollo. Seems out of place.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bosk1 on November 21, 2017, 09:17:47 PM
Yeah, look at the logo.  It's definitely them.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: King Postwhore on November 21, 2017, 09:20:33 PM
Weird mix.  I'd love to see the response from that crowd.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Adami on November 21, 2017, 09:21:38 PM
"Look Skeeter, that there homeless looking fella can sure play the geetar!"
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Orbert on November 21, 2017, 10:01:06 PM
As they say in the biz, a gig's a gig.  These new acts have to start somewhere, right?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Anguyen92 on November 21, 2017, 10:11:59 PM
As I stated, Dream Theater has played this festival before back in 2015 and there has been a few bands with "prog" tendencies that had played it before.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Zydar on November 22, 2017, 01:27:30 AM
"Look Skeeter, that there homeless looking fella can sure play the geetar!"

:lol
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: twosuitsluke on November 22, 2017, 03:12:09 AM
As I stated, Dream Theater has played this festival before back in 2015 and there has been a few bands with "prog" tendencies that had played it before.

I think Devin Townsend played there this year. It's a mixed bag I think.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Sycsa on November 22, 2017, 03:31:34 AM
Some more Sherinianisms:
(https://i.imgur.com/Sr0Ez3h.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/jhdyR4U.jpg)
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: MirrorMask on November 22, 2017, 04:15:29 AM
Wow. The official account that asks to actively gang up against a respectful commenter is absolutely cringeworthy.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: wolfking on November 22, 2017, 04:25:08 AM
Andres is being way too kind.

Fuck the band for asking people to blast him, that's poor form.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bl5150 on November 22, 2017, 04:29:06 AM
Sherinian will be featuring in my end of year awards but it won't be for best album  ;D
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: The Silent Cody on November 22, 2017, 04:58:55 AM
Lol...  :o
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ganpondorodf on November 22, 2017, 05:23:04 AM
More Adrenaline Mob than Adrenaline Mob
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Podaar on November 22, 2017, 05:30:04 AM
Boy, bosk1's rule about not attacking former band members with personal insults is really, really hard to comply with!

Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Sycsa on November 22, 2017, 05:42:00 AM
Derek sure gives a masterclass in being unfunny, petty, obnoxious, and insecure. I can only imagine what a tiresome chore it will be for the other guys to tour with him. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: The Walrus on November 22, 2017, 06:33:35 AM
Wooooow
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: devieira73 on November 22, 2017, 07:05:29 AM
Some more Sherinianisms:
(https://i.imgur.com/Sr0Ez3h.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/jhdyR4U.jpg)


Well, the guy said that it's very good and a top 5 album of the year and... give it a 6/10? ::)
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: devieira73 on November 22, 2017, 07:08:58 AM
It seems sometimes that people are too shy to just admit that really liked this album, like it was something not very well received socially. I mean, if you love ABBA, why don't you say it OUT LOUD? ;D
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: mikeyd23 on November 22, 2017, 07:43:40 AM
Man, this band's social media presence is rough, that's the sort of stuff local high school bands do on Facebook. Yikes.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ariich on November 22, 2017, 07:48:56 AM
Boy, bosk1's rule about not attacking former band members with personal insults is really, really hard to comply with!
It really shouldn't be. I find it quite easy to not attack or insult anyone.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Podaar on November 22, 2017, 07:51:57 AM
Boy, bosk1's rule about not attacking former band members with personal insults is really, really hard to comply with!
It really shouldn't be. I find it quite easy to not attack or insult anyone.

You're right, of course. I woke up a bit grumpy this morning and was tempted to resort to name calling, but in retrospect, it's Derek's behavior I object to, not him as a person.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: kaos2900 on November 22, 2017, 07:55:26 AM
Just another reason why this band won't see a single penny from me.

I'd love to see a Trump vs. Sons of Apollo twitter battle.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Madman Shepherd on November 22, 2017, 08:18:24 AM
Boy, bosk1's rule about not attacking former band members with personal insults is really, really hard to comply with!

Well, when certain former band members act in a way that probably would have gotten them banned from this board had they decided to post here in the same manner they post on their facebook, it's a bit hard to not respond in kind.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: MirrorMask on November 22, 2017, 08:20:15 AM
It seems sometimes that people are too shy to just admit that really liked this album, like it was something not very well received socially. I mean, if you love ABBA, why don't you say it OUT LOUD? ;D

Well, I like the album. Don't love it, but like it a lot, especially after I've made my own edit version where I've trimmed a bit of the solo sections here and there.

Their online antics do not affect the enjoyment of the songs for me, but it probably made it harder for many other people to enjoy them.

I've seen mentioned more than once in the pre-release time an album that came out the same day as PS - Vuur's "In this moment we are free".  It's a decent hard rock / prog album by Anneke Van Giersbergen, who is one of Arjen Lucassen's frequent guests / collaborators on the Ayreon albums, and they even made a wonderful album together, The Gentle Storm.

Now, the album is quite okayish but it's nothing earth shattering. Imagine a scenario where Anneke would have had a fallout with Arjen, and would pump up an album as the "answer to Ayreon", that would "claim back the throne of sci-fi rock operas" or whatever... and come out with just an album that not the entirety of the fan base would like... wouldn't that have been a major self inflicted PR nightmare? now people who don't like the album are just that, people that don't like it, they're not adding fuel to the fire criticizing her for "going to war" with Arjen and then not delivering something that coudl truly rival with him.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on November 22, 2017, 08:32:33 AM
Wow that facebook gang up attempt is cringeworthy, what is wrong with these guys.

As for touring, I was starting to think, didn't they say they plan to tour all of 2018 and dedicate it to the band?  Well... where are the tour dates?  If they were to tour in early 2018, dates should be out now or very soon.  Unless it'll be a spring US tour and summer in Europe with fall in South America/Asia?  I just know I have tickets for concerts already in the first 4 months of 2018.  Seems bands have already announced those tours if its early in 2018.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Anguyen92 on November 22, 2017, 08:40:20 AM
I wonder if this band is interested in any sense of bringing goodwill and a certain amount of professionalism on social media?

Calling for any fans to make nasty comments to reviewer for an opinion seems a little too out of line for a few reasons where it does not benefit the band at all.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Lowdz on November 22, 2017, 08:45:32 AM
It seems sometimes that people are too shy to just admit that really liked this album, like it was something not very well received socially. I mean, if you love ABBA, why don't you say it OUT LOUD? ;D

I am proud to say I love ABBA! My first favourite group  :biggrin: Their songs translate really well to metal songs.

I also really like SoA, not ashamed to say it. BUt Derek and Mike are acting like spoilt kids.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: shadystraz360 on November 22, 2017, 08:55:29 AM
Any time I see multiple necks/unnecessary things it just brings me back to the Rhapsody - Unholy Warcry video with the keyboardist standing behind 6 keyboards in the grass not even plugged into anything. It's silly, but if that's Billy's thing to have two necks, his call.  :lol

The necks give the guys more flexability while playing... and looks hella cool.
Personally i would also rather see 6 keyboards on stage than 6 tablets
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Madman Shepherd on November 22, 2017, 09:01:57 AM
Any time I see multiple necks/unnecessary things it just brings me back to the Rhapsody - Unholy Warcry video with the keyboardist standing behind 6 keyboards in the grass not even plugged into anything. It's silly, but if that's Billy's thing to have two necks, his call.  :lol

The necks give the guys more flexability while playing... and looks hella cool.
Personally i would also rather see 6 keyboards on stage than 6 tablets

I'd rather see 6 tablets than 5 Sons of Apollo.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: The Walrus on November 22, 2017, 09:05:28 AM
Any time I see multiple necks/unnecessary things it just brings me back to the Rhapsody - Unholy Warcry video with the keyboardist standing behind 6 keyboards in the grass not even plugged into anything. It's silly, but if that's Billy's thing to have two necks, his call.  :lol

The necks give the guys more flexability while playing... and looks hella cool.
Personally i would also rather see 6 keyboards on stage than 6 tablets

I'd rather see 6 tablets than 5 Sons of Apollo.

 :lol
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Evermind on November 22, 2017, 09:52:33 AM
Any time I see multiple necks/unnecessary things it just brings me back to the Rhapsody - Unholy Warcry video with the keyboardist standing behind 6 keyboards in the grass not even plugged into anything. It's silly, but if that's Billy's thing to have two necks, his call.  :lol

The necks give the guys more flexability while playing... and looks hella cool.
Personally i would also rather see 6 keyboards on stage than 6 tablets

I'd rather see 6 tablets than 5 Sons of Apollo.

:rollin

That made me laugh out loud.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bill1971 on November 22, 2017, 10:40:13 AM
It seems sometimes that people are too shy to just admit that really liked this album, like it was something not very well received socially. I mean, if you love ABBA, why don't you say it OUT LOUD? ;D

Well, I like the album. Don't love it, but like it a lot, especially after I've made my own edit version where I've trimmed a bit of the solo sections here and there.

Their online antics do not affect the enjoyment of the songs for me, but it probably made it harder for many other people to enjoy them.

I've seen mentioned more than once in the pre-release time an album that came out the same day as PS - Vuur's "In this moment we are free".  It's a decent hard rock / prog album by Anneke Van Giersbergen, who is one of Arjen Lucassen's frequent guests / collaborators on the Ayreon albums, and they even made a wonderful album together, The Gentle Storm.

Now, the album is quite okayish but it's nothing earth shattering. Imagine a scenario where Anneke would have had a fallout with Arjen, and would pump up an album as the "answer to Ayreon", that would "claim back the throne of sci-fi rock operas" or whatever... and come out with just an album that not the entirety of the fan base would like... wouldn't that have been a major self inflicted PR nightmare? now people who don't like the album are just that, people that don't like it, they're not adding fuel to the fire criticizing her for "going to war" with Arjen and then not delivering something that coudl truly rival with him.

I also made my own edit version, where I omitted the first 9 songs.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Cool Chris on November 22, 2017, 10:40:27 AM
I also love ABBA. They have a unique legacy. They are one of the most popular and successful pop bands ever. Yet they are often maligned due to their association with disco, which is completely and unfairly disparaged.

I'd rather see 6 tablets than 5 Sons of Apollo.

Double :lol
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Sycsa on November 22, 2017, 10:48:00 AM
It just popped into my mind - on the 5 Years in a Lifetime DVD commentary, James jokingly said "if you've gotten this far through the commentary, you need to get a fucking life." It's obviously a joke, and a zinger at that, but then he quickly adds "just kidding," to make super-duper sure he doesn't even remotely offend anyone. It's an unnecessary gesture, but he still does it. That's how you treat fans. Pure class. As opposed to...
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bill1971 on November 22, 2017, 12:55:21 PM
I wonder if this band is interested in any sense of bringing goodwill and a certain amount of professionalism on social media?

Calling for any fans to make nasty comments to reviewer for an opinion seems a little too out of line for a few reasons where it does not benefit the band at all.

You just don't get the Del Fuvio wit.

Get 'im boys!!!
Queue old Adam West Batman fight music
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Anguyen92 on November 22, 2017, 01:09:33 PM
I wonder if this band is interested in any sense of bringing goodwill and a certain amount of professionalism on social media?

Calling for any fans to make nasty comments to reviewer for an opinion seems a little too out of line for a few reasons where it does not benefit the band at all.

You just don't get the Del Fuvio wit.

Get 'im boys!!!
Queue old Adam West Batman fight music

Oh goody.  I hope I do something in this scenario and there's a WHOMP! background with weird colors.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: devieira73 on November 22, 2017, 03:08:58 PM
Just for the record, I made the joke, but I also like ABBA A LOT  :tup
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bill1971 on November 22, 2017, 03:37:19 PM
Some more Sherinianisms:
(https://i.imgur.com/Sr0Ez3h.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/jhdyR4U.jpg)


Well, the guy said that it's very good and a top 5 album of the year and... give it a 6/10? ::)

The album is called Psychotic Symphony


Definition of psychosis

plural psychoses play  \sī-ˈkō-ˌsēz\
: a serious mental illness (such as schizophrenia) characterized by defective or lost contact with reality often with hallucinations or delusions such as your album is unique or the best.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ytserush on November 22, 2017, 08:37:02 PM


The album is called Psychotic Symphony


Definition of psychosis

plural psychoses play  \sī-ˈkō-ˌsēz\
: a serious mental illness (such as schizophrenia) characterized by defective or lost contact with reality often with hallucinations or delusions such as your album is unique or the best.

Nugget!
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: PetFish on November 22, 2017, 08:49:55 PM
plural psychoses play  \sī-ˈkō-ˌsēz\
: a serious mental illness (such as schizophrenia) characterized by defective or lost contact with reality often with hallucinations or delusions such as your album is unique or the best.

 :hefdaddy  :hefdaddy  :hefdaddy  :hefdaddy  :hefdaddy
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: shadystraz360 on November 23, 2017, 12:23:12 AM

Some more Sherinianisms:
(https://i.imgur.com/Sr0Ez3h.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/jhdyR4U.jpg)


Well, the guy said that it's very good and a top 5 album of the year and... give it a 6/10? ::)

The album is called Psychotic Symphony


Definition of psychosis

plural psychoses play  \sī-ˈkō-ˌsēz\
: a serious mental illness (such as schizophrenia) characterized by defective or lost contact with reality often with hallucinations or delusions such as your album is unique or the best.

The band is called “Dream” Theater
Funny how that apart from the usual meanings derived from the word “Dream”....
It can also mean “an unrealistic or self-deluding fantasy”

How interesting ;)


Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: erwinrafael on November 23, 2017, 05:44:58 AM
Alex Argento of Icefish posted in the Icefish thread to thank everybody for the comments to help them grow as a band.

And I just felt like posting here....
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Sycsa on November 23, 2017, 06:06:39 AM
Alex Argento of Icefish posted in the Icefish thread to thank everybody for the comments to help them grow as a band.

And I just felt like posting here....
While SoA arbitrarily declares that their album is the album of the year, blasting people who disagree.

Yeah, the contrast is striking, and it's also reflected by the music. Icefish sounds like they're hungry, hard-working, eager to push the genre forward and develop their sound, while SoA is perfectly content with the same old, same old, and with a "we're so awesome, we'll make the best album ever with no real effort" kind of mentality. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: No Filter Loki on November 23, 2017, 06:21:42 AM
Yo Yo Yo,

There seems to be a lot of hate towards DS and SOA, can anyone please enlighten me as to why?

Thanks in advance, I need educating here  😊
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: KevShmev on November 23, 2017, 07:46:38 AM
Yo Yo Yo,

There seems to be a lot of hate towards DS and SOA, can anyone please enlighten me as to why?

Thanks in advance, I need educating here  😊

Welcome to the forum, Derek.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bosk1 on November 23, 2017, 07:50:00 AM
Yo Yo Yo,

There seems to be a lot of hate towards DS and SOA, can anyone please enlighten me as to why?

Thanks in advance, I need educating here  😊

No "hate" at all.  Just a lot of people being massively turned off by Derek's childish insults to the point where even people who might like the music are refusing to support the project.  Unfortunately, Derek and Mike created their own problem.  But there is no "hate."  That isn't allowed here.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: No Filter Loki on November 23, 2017, 07:50:21 AM
Derek is much more handsome and talented than myself, he’s more of a dick that I am also!
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: No Filter Loki on November 23, 2017, 07:52:05 AM
I’m sorry I don’t follow! Can you be specific?

DS childish insults?

DS and MP have brought this on themselves? What have the brought on and what have they actually done?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Orbert on November 23, 2017, 08:04:39 AM
I’m sorry I don’t follow! Can you be specific?

DS childish insults?

DS and MP have brought this on themselves? What have the brought on and what have they actually done?

Have you read this thread at all?  Start with that.  If 70 pages is too much to read, start on page 2.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: shadystraz360 on November 23, 2017, 08:07:26 AM
he’s more of a dick that I am also!

No doubt about that 😉😉
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: No Filter Loki on November 23, 2017, 08:44:30 AM
I’m sorry I don’t follow! Can you be specific?

DS childish insults?

DS and MP have brought this on themselves? What have the brought on and what have they actually done?

Have you read this thread at all?  Start with that.  If 70 pages is too much to read, start on page 2.

Way too much to bother reading, thanks for the help though 👍🏻
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: No Filter Loki on November 23, 2017, 08:45:45 AM
Yo Yo Yo,

There seems to be a lot of hate towards DS and SOA, can anyone please enlighten me as to why?

Thanks in advance, I need educating here  😊

Welcome to the forum, Derek.

Hi James, I’m not Derek 😘
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ? on November 23, 2017, 08:59:05 AM
I'd rather see 6 tablets than 5 Sons of Apollo.
I also made my own edit version, where I omitted the first 9 songs.
Savage :rollin
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Sycsa on November 23, 2017, 09:02:39 AM
Unfortunately, Derek and Mike created their own problem.
Before this project and all the shenanigans that came with it, Derek was generally regarded as a funny (making history, and you?) and classy (no negative comments about DT, despite being fired over the phone) guy around here. He really put in a lot of effort to completely shatter that image.


I’m sorry I don’t follow! Can you be specific?

DS childish insults?

DS and MP have brought this on themselves? What have the brought on and what have they actually done?
This arrogant comment addressed to a critical fan made some people not want to support him financially.
(https://s26.postimg.org/ahrf6arux/Capture.png)


Also, he's constantly taking cheap shots at DT and Jordan, none of which are the least bit funny. Actually, my biggest gripe with all of this is that he's just not funny, there's no redeeming quality to his antics, yet it's so obvious that he's trying so hard to be funny. He's just obnoxious. He really strikes me, to put it mildly, as an unintelligent person. And MP enables his childish behavior by calling it "Del Fuvian Bravado" and "Sherinianisms."

Even the people on Mike's own forum got ticked off by Derek, to the point where Mike said this:
Quote
I suppose Derek's "Sherinianisms" and "Del Fuvio Bravado" tainted the waters here on The Forums... Shame if you let that spoil this band/album for you...

...then proceeded to shut the whole forum down while saying this:
Quote
Actually....I think it's time for a Permanent Vacation... Sorry gang....just way too much bickering and negativity. It's time to move on...it was fun while it lasted, but I can only take so much and I'm not interested in playing host to it anymore.

So Derek's rudeness stirred up some nerves, and Mike put all the blame on his own fans. Classy.


He also had this to say about DTF:
(https://i.imgur.com/SGqR2yi.jpg)


Such an aura of toxicity that surrounds these two people.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: The Walrus on November 23, 2017, 09:12:15 AM
People just don't have the time for peace, love, and serenity anymore
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: MirrorMask on November 23, 2017, 09:21:26 AM
Well, to be fair, the explanation DT gave - firing him over a conference call because they didn't want to actually board a plane and travel just to be fired - seems acceptable to me.

The guy was going to get the boot anyway, why "lure" him with "Hey there's this important band meeting, you really have to be here, buy a ticket and board a plane and find yourself an hotel" and then just go "Sorry dude, we like Jordan Rudess, he's in, you're out"?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Sycsa on November 23, 2017, 09:33:17 AM
Well, to be fair, the explanation DT gave - firing him over a conference call because they didn't want to actually board a plane and travel just to be fired - seems acceptable to me.

The guy was going to get the boot anyway, why "lure" him with "Hey there's this important band meeting, you really have to be here, buy a ticket and board a plane and find yourself an hotel" and then just go "Sorry dude, we like Jordan Rudess, he's in, you're out"?
Oh yeah, no doubt. I was just phrasing it like that for effect, but yeah, the point was: "no negative comments about DT, despite being fired." Whether it was over the phone or not isn't relevant.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: MirrorMask on November 23, 2017, 09:38:22 AM
Anyway, I agree with you, up until Sons of Apollo Derek had absolutely nothing against him, since he never said anything bad about DT and even guest starred with them for the WDADR show.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: gzarruk on November 23, 2017, 10:02:41 AM
Just another reason why this band won't see a single penny from me.

I'd love to see a Trump vs. Sons of Apollo twitter battle.

Derek'd be like #NoMexicoWall
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: portnoy311 on November 23, 2017, 10:05:13 AM
MP is just as culpable as Derek. I don't see much difference in what they've said and done and are a PR disaster tag team.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: PetFish on November 23, 2017, 02:53:09 PM
DS has been talking shit just recently while MP has been talking shit since he left so right now I'd say it's about even.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: wolfking on November 23, 2017, 03:01:17 PM
We are trolls over here according to MIke?  haha, Well all of these trolls here have spent hard on money on his work for years and years and that's the thanks we get.  Nice.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Madman Shepherd on November 23, 2017, 03:17:38 PM
Never Enough.

AmIright?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ReaperKK on November 23, 2017, 05:52:48 PM
Yo Yo Yo,

There seems to be a lot of hate towards DS and SOA, can anyone please enlighten me as to why?

Thanks in advance, I need educating here  😊

Welcome to the forum, Derek.

No lie I thought the exact same thing Kev :lol

Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: SystematicThought on November 23, 2017, 05:58:22 PM
 :lol

It has to be Derek. All of his posts are ripping on James and the band and his first post was here in the Sons of Apollo. It just has to be
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ReaperKK on November 23, 2017, 06:00:42 PM
Whether it is Derek or not, I choose to believe it is. It'll make everything more entertaining :lol
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Madman Shepherd on November 23, 2017, 06:17:34 PM
Wouldn't be the first ex band member to post here. Didnt one or two actually get banned?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: shadystraz360 on November 24, 2017, 12:28:20 AM
:lol

It has to be Derek. All of his posts are ripping on James and the band and his first post was here in the Sons of Apollo. It just has to be

Whether it is Derek or not, I choose to believe it is. It'll make everything more entertaining :lol

Seriously??  :lol  :lol
Fans are entitled to opinions about others surely
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: shadystraz360 on November 24, 2017, 12:29:09 AM
Wouldn't be the first ex band member to post here. Didnt one or two actually get banned?

Charlie was i believe....
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Fritzinger on November 24, 2017, 02:39:04 AM
Wouldn't be the first ex band member to post here. Didnt one or two actually get banned?

Charlie was i believe....

Charlie was banned from here? Why is that? I have him as FB friend and I always had the impression of him being a pretty nice dude.

Quote
Whether it is Derek or not, I choose to believe it is. It'll make everything more entertaining :lol

I thought the same thing and I am going to do the same thing :D
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ariich on November 24, 2017, 04:25:59 AM
:lol

It has to be Derek. All of his posts are ripping on James and the band and his first post was here in the Sons of Apollo. It just has to be

Whether it is Derek or not, I choose to believe it is. It'll make everything more entertaining :lol

Seriously??  :lol  :lol
Fans are entitled to opinions about others surely
Apparently not. Only one opinion is allowed.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Sycsa on November 24, 2017, 04:45:01 AM
Wouldn't be the first ex band member to post here. Didnt one or two actually get banned?
I remember David Prater (he produced I&W and ACoS) coming here anonymously when the discussion was about his feud with MP and JP as described in Lifting Shadows (by far the most entertaining part of the book btw!). He posed as someone who knew Prater and proceeded to defend him vigorously while badmouthing DT. He was called out as Prater after his very first comment, which was hilarious. Also, someone tracked down that his username was Prater’s former band or studio or something like that, so it was definitely him.

Anyway, it also instantly crossed my mind that this guy might be Derek. He apparently has an insane amount of free time to dick around with social media, so it wouldn’t surprise me one bit. I wonder what his thought process might have been here: “So I went to that cesspool which is DTF and asked what their problem was with me, and of course no one could give me a straight answer, they’re just haters, and they’re jealous, I knew it.”

Problem is, he actually got some answers, and conveniently disappeared afterwards.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: MirrorMask on November 24, 2017, 04:50:57 AM
He was called out as Prater after his very first comment, which was hilarious.

This made me remember of a famous scene from italian comedy - there's this series of movies about a very down on his luck clerk that never ever has anything good going for him, he's the epitome of the frustrated, average guy, think 6:00 taken to the most extreme and comical levels of bad luck. There's this scene in which he attempts to blackmail the director of his firm, and he goes to great and comical lengths to disguise his voice for a prank call, and the moment the director picks up the phone and he talks with an absolutely distorted voice, the director immediately calls him out asking (correctly) if it's him  :lol

Kind a similar situation here..
"I'll pretend I'll be someone close to Prater"
"Prater, is that you?"
"FUUUUUUU"

 :rollin
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: wolfking on November 24, 2017, 04:55:23 AM
Just read that guys posts, has to be Derek.

Welcome to the board Derek.  Too bad you missed out on playing on the good DT albums.  I'll let you off though for ACOS.  ;D
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: noxon on November 24, 2017, 05:13:07 AM
Nah, it's not Derek. But it's a fanboy for sure, probably close to Derek. Probably gotten close through sucking up, and is now running around the internet trolling to "protect his dear friend". I think I've seen him on the fan club facebook page too... If it is who I think it is, he runs a group with Straz as an "unofficial SoA fan club"...
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Cyclopssss on November 24, 2017, 05:15:20 AM
Personally, I think 70 pages of discussion is a bit too much credit for this average an album, but hey.....  :\
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Sycsa on November 24, 2017, 05:18:21 AM
He was called out as Prater after his very first comment, which was hilarious.

This made me remember of a famous scene from italian comedy - there's this series of movies about a very down on his luck clerk that never ever has anything good going for him, he's the epitome of the frustrated, average guy, think 6:00 taken to the most extreme and comical levels of bad luck. There's this scene in which he attempts to blackmail the director of his firm, and he goes to great and comical lengths to disguise his voice for a prank call, and the moment the director picks up the phone and he talks with an absolutely distorted voice, the director immediately calls him out asking (correctly) if it's him  :lol

Kind a similar situation here..
"I'll pretend I'll be someone close to Prater"
"Prater, is that you?"
"FUUUUUUU"

 :rollin
:lol That sounds absolutely hilarious. What is the title of the movie? Is that scene on YouTube by chance?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: MirrorMask on November 24, 2017, 05:23:01 AM
The movie is called Il Secondo Tragico Fantozzi - meaning "The second tragic Fantozzi", second movie in a series about the titular character, Fantozzi.

You can see the scene here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hTwRfHqzIJM

The whole scene is the preparation on how to disguise the voice ("Go inside the pot! Do a swedish accent! Block your nose with the clothespin" etc), even if you don't know italian, you'll surely get the hang of it  :D

The immediate answer of the director ("Fantocci, is that you?" - Fantocci and not Fantozzi 'cause no one is bothered to learn the proper name of the guy) is kinda classic in Italy, everyone here knows it  :D
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: The Walrus on November 24, 2017, 08:52:10 AM
Some more Sherinianisms:
(https://i.imgur.com/Sr0Ez3h.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/jhdyR4U.jpg)

BTW, this comment is no longer on the thread. Given Derek and Mike's tendencies to delete comments/block people, they probably removed it! omg  :lol
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Schurftkut on November 24, 2017, 10:06:06 AM
that's sad....
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Sycsa on November 24, 2017, 10:07:45 AM
The movie is called Il Secondo Tragico Fantozzi - meaning "The second tragic Fantozzi", second movie in a series about the titular character, Fantozzi.

You can see the scene here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hTwRfHqzIJM

The whole scene is the preparation on how to disguise the voice ("Go inside the pot! Do a swedish accent! Block your nose with the clothespin" etc), even if you don't know italian, you'll surely get the hang of it  :D

The immediate answer of the director ("Fantocci, is that you?" - Fantocci and not Fantozzi 'cause no one is bothered to learn the proper name of the guy) is kinda classic in Italy, everyone here knows it  :D
That's hilarious, even though I don't speak Italian, I laughed out loud. The way he immediately smacks the phone down. How you connected it to the Prater case makes it even more funny. :lol
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: PixelDream on November 24, 2017, 10:21:52 AM
Wow, a bit shocked about that MP post about DTF. I've been here all these years and I haven't seen that much negativity here to be honest. Negative posters seem to get their ass handed to them soon enough every time one pops up. This is a fantastic place to discover new music from all kinds of genres with people who come from the 'DT universe'. Guess he just can't handle ANY criticism. I'm a huge MP fan when it comes to DT, but this really isn't cool. Not cool at all.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: MirrorMask on November 24, 2017, 11:41:31 AM
The movie is called Il Secondo Tragico Fantozzi - meaning "The second tragic Fantozzi", second movie in a series about the titular character, Fantozzi.

You can see the scene here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hTwRfHqzIJM

The whole scene is the preparation on how to disguise the voice ("Go inside the pot! Do a swedish accent! Block your nose with the clothespin" etc), even if you don't know italian, you'll surely get the hang of it  :D

The immediate answer of the director ("Fantocci, is that you?" - Fantocci and not Fantozzi 'cause no one is bothered to learn the proper name of the guy) is kinda classic in Italy, everyone here knows it  :D
That's hilarious, even though I don't speak Italian, I laughed out loud. The way he immediately smacks the phone down. How you connected it to the Prater case makes it even more funny. :lol

Glad that you liked it! As I said that scene is very famous in Italy, so it immediately comes to mind when the argument is "Someone makes a lot of effort to go undetected and is discovered in a nanosecond", like I read it happened with Prater's first post  :D
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: rumborak on November 24, 2017, 12:34:00 PM
Nah, it's not Derek. But it's a fanboy for sure, probably close to Derek. Probably gotten close through sucking up, and is now running around the internet trolling to "protect his dear friend". I think I've seen him on the fan club facebook page too... If it is who I think it is, he runs a group with Straz as an "unofficial SoA fan club"...

I mean, just to bring it back to everybody's memory, that's how Charlie tried to change the opinion on DTF about Dominici. He started posting under some pseudonym (mrpicasso or something) and then slowly divulged knowledge and opinions that only he could have known.

And, while DT are still a reasonably big band, Dominici and SoA are "basement-computer management" bands, where one guy wears a lot of different hats. Don't discount the possibility that DS decided to shore up a few listeners by going incognito on DTF.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: shadystraz360 on November 24, 2017, 01:43:01 PM
Well that escelated quickly.....
Just got off work to have a butchers and people seem to have fallen way off par  :D :D :D

But people are entitled to opinions. Cant help that....
Whoever this Loki guy is, whether or not he replies, i couldnt care less.. But it is kinda funny (to me anyway) how fans react to certain questions, opinions, ideas etc... and stick with it...
I always thought a forum was about discussion, ideas, thoughts and sharing. And yet im told that bashing, cussing or and even insulting others is not allowed. And yet i have seen it right through this thread... bare in mind i havent at all attacked anyone but it seems unless you are a "HARDCORE DT FAN" then those rules only apply to others because so many people have gone on this road and yet nothing happens....

I have enjoyed this forum for a long time... and i would hate to see the forum go south like that by going after people for their opinions.... surely everyone here is above that?


Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Dreammajesty on November 24, 2017, 01:47:49 PM
I'm mostly a lurker in this thread but boy oh boy it just gets more and more  :rollin entertaining
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: KevShmev on November 24, 2017, 01:54:45 PM
Nah, it's not Derek. But it's a fanboy for sure, probably close to Derek. Probably gotten close through sucking up, and is now running around the internet trolling to "protect his dear friend". I think I've seen him on the fan club facebook page too... If it is who I think it is, he runs a group with Straz as an "unofficial SoA fan club"...

I know exactly who you mean. I will not mention any names, but after doing a little skimming on FB, he is all over the band's FB page defending them left and right, and I remember him from the Neal Morse FB page as someone who has ripped the crap out of DT while defending Portnoy like he is his mother, and usually in a tactless and classless manner.  Portnoy diehard fans really are a scary bunch.  It's almost like a cult.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Cool Chris on November 24, 2017, 02:07:09 PM
And, while DT are still a reasonably big band, Dominici and SoA are "basement-computer management" bands, where one guy wears a lot of different hats. Don't discount the possibility that DS decided to shore up a few listeners by going incognito on DTF.

That would actually a be smart marketing move... join forms of other similar bands anonymously and drum up support for your band. But don't, you know, trash the band of the forum you are participating in.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Lowdz on November 24, 2017, 02:42:05 PM
Personally, I think 70 pages of discussion is a bit too much credit for this average an album, but hey.....  :\

Oh there hasn’t been 70 pages o& talk about the album... mainly DS and MP’s arseaching 😀
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: The Walrus on November 24, 2017, 03:01:29 PM
Quote
but it seems unless you are a "HARDCORE DT FAN" then those rules only apply to others because so many people have gone on this road and yet nothing happens....

*puts up a big flashing neon arrow sign pointing directly to my status on the left that I got for insulting Derek*
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ganpondorodf on November 24, 2017, 03:02:01 PM
Portnoy diehard fans really are a scary bunch.  It's almost like a cult.

That MP Warriors thing is so goddamn cringey. Who felt the need to make a Twitter account for that? It's not like the guy is short on tweets himself. Weird.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Madman Shepherd on November 24, 2017, 03:06:45 PM
Quote
but it seems unless you are a "HARDCORE DT FAN" then those rules only apply to others because so many people have gone on this road and yet nothing happens....

*puts up a big flashing neon arrow sign pointing directly to my status on the left that I got for insulting Derek*

I think only you get to see that.   :-[

We should really make these scarlet letters public. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: The Walrus on November 24, 2017, 03:08:05 PM
Quote
but it seems unless you are a "HARDCORE DT FAN" then those rules only apply to others because so many people have gone on this road and yet nothing happens....

*puts up a big flashing neon arrow sign pointing directly to my status on the left that I got for insulting Derek*

I think only you get to see that.   :-[

We should really make these scarlet letters public.

What? Damn it.  :lol
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: pcs90 on November 24, 2017, 03:16:33 PM
I'm mostly a lurker in this thread but boy oh boy it just gets more and more  :rollin entertaining

Agreed...this thread is sadly addicting to read lol.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ariich on November 25, 2017, 01:01:52 AM
Quote
but it seems unless you are a "HARDCORE DT FAN" then those rules only apply to others because so many people have gone on this road and yet nothing happens....

*puts up a big flashing neon arrow sign pointing directly to my status on the left that I got for insulting Derek*

I think only you get to see that.   :-[

We should really make these scarlet letters public.

What? Damn it.  :lol
Mods can see it too. ;)
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: eric42434224 on November 25, 2017, 07:47:15 AM
LOL, yeah I have warnings on my account from 2011, 2012, and 2014.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: AngelBack on November 25, 2017, 07:56:50 AM
LOL, yeah I have warnings on my account from 2011, 2012, and 2014.

Yeah, me too, oh the shame..  I think Bosk should let us contribute $$  to the site in exchange for having them reduced/removed.  Then we could be free of the stigma (and make a risky post occasionally) :biggrin:
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: No Filter Loki on November 25, 2017, 09:10:15 AM
Hi, I’m sorry I’ve been away from the discussion but I’ve been busy working.  Reading back the comments are fantastic. Thankyou for the input, knowledge and opinions.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: The Walrus on November 25, 2017, 09:13:00 AM
Hi, I’m sorry I’ve been away from the discussion but I’ve been busy working.  Reading back the comments are fantastic. Thankyou for the input, knowledge and opinions.

I hope I'm mistaken but fess up, are you really Derek? This sounds like a Derek response. :)
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: No Filter Loki on November 25, 2017, 09:27:26 AM
Hi, I’m sorry I’ve been away from the discussion but I’ve been busy working.  Reading back the comments are fantastic. Thankyou for the input, knowledge and opinions.

I hope I'm mistaken but fess up, are you really Derek? This sounds like a Derek response. :)

Reading all the comments and folks going on mega rants about me being Derek actually amused me. No I am not Derek, I’m a DT fan since 94 and with a view and opinion from my experiences of hearing and seeing the band!
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: The Walrus on November 25, 2017, 09:32:50 AM
Just checking :) welcome to the forum!
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: The Silent Cody on November 25, 2017, 01:31:17 PM


I’m a DT fan since 94 and with a view and opinion from my experiences of hearing and seeing the band

You're a fan since 94?  ;D
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Madman Shepherd on November 25, 2017, 01:37:38 PM


I’m a DT fan since 94 and with a view and opinion from my experiences of hearing and seeing the band

You're a fan since 94?  ;D

I wonder who else had an association with the band starting in 94
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: The Walrus on November 25, 2017, 01:56:07 PM
I hesitated a bit when I saw that myself  :lol
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: No Filter Loki on November 25, 2017, 02:19:11 PM


I’m a DT fan since 94 and with a view and opinion from my experiences of hearing and seeing the band

You're a fan since 94?  ;D

Well it can hardly be helped if I discover the band in 94 can it?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Architeuthis on November 25, 2017, 02:20:09 PM
I've been a fan since 92, Images and Words got me addicted. Awake was quite a departure but still good!  Oh wait, I almost forgot this is a SOA thread..  :justjen
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: mikeyd23 on November 25, 2017, 05:52:20 PM
This thread just keeps on delivering.

Back kinda on topic - I haven’t had the desire to revisit this album after my first couple listens when it came out on Spotify. Nothing that I latched onto that makes me want to come back. It’s a shame, lots of talent in the group, just didn’t strike me.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Madman Shepherd on November 25, 2017, 08:15:51 PM
This thread just keeps on delivering.

Back kinda on topic - I haven’t had the desire to revisit this album after my first couple listens when it came out on Spotify. Nothing that I latched onto that makes me want to come back. It’s a shame, lots of talent in the group, just didn’t strike me.

Same here. I even went back to rate the album a 6 after initially giving it a 5 because I was kind of surprised at how good some of it was. Then I haven't had a desire to even go back and listen to those songs so I went back and gave it a 5.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bill1971 on November 25, 2017, 08:34:58 PM
I've been a fan since 94 as well. :)

#appssucks.
#nocheesekeys.
#Iamafarbetterkeyboardplayerthanjordanandtheymadeamistakeiwillnevergetover.

Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: contest_sanity on November 25, 2017, 09:22:03 PM
Back in 94 (https://www.ebaumsworld.com/videos/dave-chappelle-2pac-skit-wrote-this-in-94/82197563/)
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: shadystraz360 on November 26, 2017, 12:02:50 AM


I’m a DT fan since 94 and with a view and opinion from my experiences of hearing and seeing the band

You're a fan since 94?  ;D

Well it can hardly be helped if I discover the band in 94 can it?
Wasnt Awake released in 1994?
I believe that was the Kevin Moore era as Jordan did live performances with DT after Kevin left which was before they hired Derek...
So i presume he was a Kevin Moore fan at some stage for that album
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Adami on November 26, 2017, 12:04:37 AM
I became a fan around the Scenes was released, JR's first album. And I'm a bald Jew.



........I may have said too much.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: wolfking on November 26, 2017, 03:17:24 AM
Hi, I’m sorry I’ve been away from the discussion but I’ve been busy working.  Reading back the comments are fantastic. Thankyou for the input, knowledge and opinions.

I hope I'm mistaken but fess up, are you really Derek? This sounds like a Derek response. :)

Reading all the comments and folks going on mega rants about me being Derek actually amused me. No I am not Derek, I’m a DT fan since 94 and with a view and opinion from my experiences of hearing and seeing the band!

By 'fan since 94' does that actually mean 'joined the group and played keyboards'?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: No Filter Loki on November 26, 2017, 04:35:25 AM
Awake and Train of thought are by far my favourite DT album! ALL the other are a close call and outstanding in their own right! But those 2 album I think are superb, Awake mainly because it was my first listening experience of Dream Theater and TOT because of its heaviness and aggression!
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bill1971 on November 26, 2017, 08:17:32 AM
Awake and Train of thought are by far my favourite DT album! ALL the other are a close call and outstanding in their own right! But those 2 album I think are superb, Awake mainly because it was my first listening experience of Dream Theater and TOT because of its heaviness and aggression!

Nice try Derek.
Just kidding. :)
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ganpondorodf on November 26, 2017, 08:37:22 AM
Hmm.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: MinistroRaven on November 26, 2017, 10:18:37 AM
No way I will read the 45+ pages since my departure.
The album sucks, just a few moments here and there and that's it.
Derek is a  :censored and MP behaviour was unnecesary.
Will keep on listening to Caligula's album  :metal
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: contest_sanity on November 26, 2017, 10:31:57 AM
new poster: hey DTF, sorry you didn't get Sons of Apollo's new Derelicte keyboards

DTF: what?

new poster: Derelicte keyboards... sorry you didn't get em

DTF: hehe, I never even heard of em, brah; us and the band been enjoying Jordan's virtuosity the past 20 years.... so I guess you can Dere-lict our balls, del fuvio

new poster (meekly): I can derelict my own balls, thank you very much

MP: did someone say "balls???!!!"

(reference) (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KeX9BXnD6D4)



Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: hefdaddy42 on November 26, 2017, 06:03:23 PM


I’m a DT fan since 94 and with a view and opinion from my experiences of hearing and seeing the band

You're a fan since 94?  ;D

Well it can hardly be helped if I discover the band in 94 can it?
Wasnt Awake released in 1994?
I believe that was the Kevin Moore era as Jordan did live performances with DT after Kevin left which was before they hired Derek...
So i presume he was a Kevin Moore fan at some stage for that album
Yes, Awake was released in 94, but Moore quit before the album was released, and Rudess only played one show with the band. Derek played the Awake tour as a hired gun before later becoming a member of the band.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: TAC on November 26, 2017, 06:07:44 PM
Gotta love life before the internet. Saw the opening night (actually opening two nights) of the Awake tour and I had no idea Moore had left. I was like Who The F is that on keyboards. I didn't recognize him as Sherinian, who I had seen in Alice Cooper's band,  because he had short hair.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: wolfking on November 26, 2017, 06:15:07 PM
Gotta love life before the internet. Saw the opening night (actually opening two nights) of the Awake tour and I had no idea Moore had left. I was like Who The F is that on keyboards. I didn't recognize him as Sherinian, who I had seen in Alice Cooper's band,  because he had short hair.

Gotta love Tim reminding everyone that he's seen every fucking band ever on every single fucking tour since before I was fucking born!!

 ;D
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: TAC on November 26, 2017, 06:43:53 PM
 :lol

I was just saying that I wasn't aware that Moore had left until I actually saw the band on stage without him. Primitive times!
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: wolfking on November 26, 2017, 06:53:28 PM
:lol

I was just saying that I wasn't aware that Moore had left until I actually saw the band on stage without him. Primitive times!

Yeah I know, just having a dig at ya.  I'm just jealous mate, that's all it is.  :lol
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Stadler on November 27, 2017, 08:14:11 AM
Gotta love life before the internet. Saw the opening night (actually opening two nights) of the Awake tour and I had no idea Moore had left. I was like Who The F is that on keyboards. I didn't recognize him as Sherinian, who I had seen in Alice Cooper's band,  because he had short hair.
Similar thing for me; AC/DC, Blow Up Your Video tour.  Found out later that Malcolm was in rehab and it was Stevie playing. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bill1971 on November 27, 2017, 08:51:10 AM
Gotta love life before the internet. Saw the opening night (actually opening two nights) of the Awake tour and I had no idea Moore had left. I was like Who The F is that on keyboards. I didn't recognize him as Sherinian, who I had seen in Alice Cooper's band,  because he had short hair.
Similar thing for me; AC/DC, Blow Up Your Video tour.  Found out later that Malcolm was in rehab and it was Stevie playing.

Almost the same thing happened on August 14th in 1974, I was looking forward to seeing John Rutsey play those fills live and was very disappointed  to see someone new behind the kit. Neil filled in admirably and is definitely more technical but clearly the "soul" was gone from Rush.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Podaar on November 27, 2017, 08:52:09 AM
 :rollin
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: gzarruk on November 27, 2017, 08:56:09 AM
Gotta love life before the internet. Saw the opening night (actually opening two nights) of the Awake tour and I had no idea Moore had left. I was like Who The F is that on keyboards. I didn't recognize him as Sherinian, who I had seen in Alice Cooper's band,  because he had short hair.
Similar thing for me; AC/DC, Blow Up Your Video tour.  Found out later that Malcolm was in rehab and it was Stevie playing.

Almost the same thing happened on August 14th in 1974, I was looking forward to seeing John Rutsey play those fills live and was very disappointed  to see someone new behind the kit. Neil filled in admirably and is definitely more technical but clearly the "soul" was gone from Rush.

 :rollin :rollin :rollin
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Lowdz on November 27, 2017, 12:01:41 PM
Gotta love life before the internet. Saw the opening night (actually opening two nights) of the Awake tour and I had no idea Moore had left. I was like Who The F is that on keyboards. I didn't recognize him as Sherinian, who I had seen in Alice Cooper's band,  because he had short hair.
Similar thing for me; AC/DC, Blow Up Your Video tour.  Found out later that Malcolm was in rehab and it was Stevie playing.

Almost the same thing happened on August 14th in 1974, I was looking forward to seeing John Rutsey play those fills live and was very disappointed  to see someone new behind the kit. Neil filled in admirably and is definitely more technical but clearly the "soul" was gone from Rush.

 :rollin :rollin :rollin

I’ve never forgiven Alice Cooper for not bringing Vinnie Moore on the Hey Stoopid european tour. Was so looking forward to seeing my favourite guitarist as I knew he was on the US tour, and suddenly there’s this average player and no Vinnie. Pretty much ruined the gig for me.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Cool Chris on November 27, 2017, 12:19:50 PM
"NO BETTE MIDDELER?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4bRWVLEHZpk
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Stadler on November 27, 2017, 12:42:49 PM
Gotta love life before the internet. Saw the opening night (actually opening two nights) of the Awake tour and I had no idea Moore had left. I was like Who The F is that on keyboards. I didn't recognize him as Sherinian, who I had seen in Alice Cooper's band,  because he had short hair.
Similar thing for me; AC/DC, Blow Up Your Video tour.  Found out later that Malcolm was in rehab and it was Stevie playing.

Almost the same thing happened on August 14th in 1974, I was looking forward to seeing John Rutsey play those fills live and was very disappointed  to see someone new behind the kit. Neil filled in admirably and is definitely more technical but clearly the "soul" was gone from Rush.

Hahaha.  I suppose you yearn for Rod Evans in Deep Purple, too?   :) :) :)
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: rumborak on November 27, 2017, 04:38:43 PM
BTW, anybody know what the voice says at 8:00 in Opus Maximum?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Adami on November 27, 2017, 04:41:00 PM
BTW, anybody know what the voice says at 8:00 in Opus Maximum?

"TONIGHT WE DINE AT DENNY'S!"
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: The Walrus on November 27, 2017, 04:44:18 PM
The voice says "it's #MinotaurMonday"
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bosk1 on November 27, 2017, 04:53:52 PM
It's always #MinotaurMonday somewhere
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Madman Shepherd on November 27, 2017, 05:28:08 PM
Gotta love life before the internet. Saw the opening night (actually opening two nights) of the Awake tour and I had no idea Moore had left. I was like Who The F is that on keyboards. I didn't recognize him as Sherinian, who I had seen in Alice Cooper's band,  because he had short hair.
Similar thing for me; AC/DC, Blow Up Your Video tour.  Found out later that Malcolm was in rehab and it was Stevie playing.

Almost the same thing happened on August 14th in 1974, I was looking forward to seeing John Rutsey play those fills live and was very disappointed  to see someone new behind the kit. Neil filled in admirably and is definitely more technical but clearly the "soul" was gone from Rush.

Hahaha.  I suppose you yearn for Rod Evans in Deep Purple, too?   :) :) :)

Actually, I do.  Sucks he disappeared after 1980.  He kicked ass in Captain Beyond, too!
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: RodrigoAltaf on November 27, 2017, 05:55:41 PM
BTW, anybody know what the voice says at 8:00 in Opus Maximum?

I think it says something about a "solo". Or at least that's what I could figure out.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: SystematicThought on November 27, 2017, 09:19:43 PM
On the subject of voices, way off topic, but never have had a better opportunity to ask. What's the voice say on Acid Rain on the Scenes from New York album at 1:45? Is it really "Shake that thing, Momma?"
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Adami on November 27, 2017, 09:30:18 PM
On the subject of voices, way off topic, but never have had a better opportunity to ask. What's the voice say on Acid Rain on the Scenes from New York album at 1:45? Is it really "Shake that thing, Momma?"

Yup!
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: the keyboard wizard on November 28, 2017, 02:15:01 PM
Ron is such a nice guy: he signed more than 40 pics for the unofficial French fan club

(https://scontent-cdt1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/23915635_447344712327617_7536681612027954006_n.jpg?oh=e32b83c97c1ea8acf2316c27e626a9e8&oe=5A960A86)
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bosk1 on November 28, 2017, 02:29:46 PM
That's really cool!  :tup
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on November 28, 2017, 02:43:24 PM
Between the drama and the music, got to say from my perspective, Ron came off amazing with this release.  None of the smack talk and awesome execution.  I'm a fan who wasn't familiar with him at all before.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Cool Chris on November 28, 2017, 02:54:12 PM
Ron is such a nice guy: he signed more than 40 pics for the unofficial French fan club

That's 8 pics for each member!  :laugh:
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Ravenfoul on November 28, 2017, 04:38:53 PM
So I don't post much, but yeah, I listen to the album occasionally. I feel some inklings of good music here and there, honestly I wish they weren't so diverse. I think they could do some really cool prog shit if they just embraced it. Divine Addiction is my favoire aside from Lab/God. I think their second album will really determine where they will be music wise. I think it'll be closer to one sound rather than a mix of prog/rock, but of course I could be wrong. Ron is a super sweet guy and an amazing player. I've always loved Derek's playing but I find his whole attitude really off-putting and weird considering his past attitude has been so... good? I don't know. Hopefully the band improves for the better in the second album.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bill1971 on November 29, 2017, 08:42:01 AM
Ron is such a nice guy: he signed more than 40 pics for the unofficial French fan club

That's 8 pics for each member!  :laugh:


LOL! I was going to respond in a similar fashion but you put it far better than I ever could. :)

 :rollin
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: The Walrus on November 29, 2017, 08:45:15 AM
I looked at some of the fan clubs yesterday. Why is a guy from Ohio in the Indonesia fan club  :lol
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Stadler on November 29, 2017, 08:47:15 AM
I looked at some of the fan clubs yesterday. Why is a guy from Ohio in the Indonesia fan club  :lol

Better exchange rate on the dues.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: SwedishGoose on November 29, 2017, 10:05:36 AM
American live dates in February released


https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=1987539204597045&id=116713035013014
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: The Walrus on November 29, 2017, 10:13:28 AM
I bet tickets are mighty cheap. The Forge is a pretty damn small venue (a great one, I love small clubs). But only 8 shows after the cruise? Wow
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Architeuthis on November 29, 2017, 10:14:54 AM
So I don't post much, but yeah, I listen to the album occasionally. I feel some inklings of good music here and there, honestly I wish they weren't so diverse.
That's an interesting take, you might have a point in some ways. The key to making a good cohesive album is having a distinct sound. I think the SOA album flows nicely, but I can see why you might feel otherwise. For example track 1 and track 2 seem like different genre's, lol.
 I wonder if that's the reason The Astonishing wasn't received as well because of the diversity throughout?  I personally love it!
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Nekov on November 29, 2017, 10:17:15 AM
I looked at some of the fan clubs yesterday. Why is a guy from Ohio in the Indonesia fan club  :lol

Multicultural experience?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Stadler on November 29, 2017, 10:26:28 AM
Um....  I'm in a band, right?  And I'm the next thing since sliced bread, and I want to showcase my live skills for the entire world. I have eight dates to really drive the point home, maybe even cut a live album to whet appetites across the globe.

Let's see:
Boston
New York (Hometown, mofos!!)
Philly (Philly has been GREAT to me through my career)
Atlanta
Chicago
Dallas
St. Louis
Los Angeles

Wow.  Wait.  Not those cities?  A casino in Miami?   Atlanta?  Carrboro? Asbury Park, NJ?  Buffalo? Battle Creek? Joliet?  What is this, a book signing tour?   
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bosk1 on November 29, 2017, 10:27:59 AM
???  It's the first 8 dates in February.  The post even says they are going to be touring throughout 2018.  It doesn't take high level critical reading skills to figure out that there will be more dates.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Architeuthis on November 29, 2017, 10:34:58 AM
???  It's the first 8 dates in February.  The post even says they are going to be touring throughout 2018.  It doesn't take high level critical reading skills to figure out that there will be more dates.
:lol  Yep, that's just the first list if U.S. dates announced so far. I do hope they come to the Pacific Northwest though. Its been a common trend for bands to skip these parts recently..
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Stadler on November 29, 2017, 10:37:18 AM
I get it. It says that explicitly in the release I saw.   But I feel like here, perception is everything.   Even the AMob got a showcase gig in NYC to kick off that whole hot mess, if memory serves (it does) and so did The Winery Dogs (at least in America; they played Japan first).  The limited tours for Flying Colors and Transatlantic all covered the big cities, including New York, Chicago, Los Angeles and the Philly area.

This seems... odd to me.  And remember, I'm the Sons of Apollo apologist, Team Mike and all that.     
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: The Walrus on November 29, 2017, 10:40:26 AM
I'm just surprised because they keep talking about 'taking over the world' so I was expecting like, a month or two of straight touring the US. I would like to know if anybody here saw Winery Dogs in St. Charles, IL the last few years and how packed the venue was (the Arcada Theater there has a capacity of 897, and The Forge has one of 950). Every time I've been to The Forge/Mojoes, it's barely half full. Just really slim pickings for the first set of dates, for their sake I hope that list expands drastically. The Forge is easy as hell to get to thankfully, but I'm just puzzled they aren't in Chicago proper.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bosk1 on November 29, 2017, 10:41:53 AM
@Architeuthis:  Portnoy really seems to want to get the band "out there" as much as possible next year, and the dates posted show that he recognizes they will have to start off playing small venues, so I would think he would get them into as many markets as possible playing wherever they can play.  Hopefully, they come your way. 

For me, the music is good enough that I want to see them.  But it isn't "great" enough, and Mike's and Derek's conduct has been offputting enough that I will likely see them only if the show is close enough, convenient enough, and inexpensive enough that it doesn't require a huge commitment on my part.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Architeuthis on November 29, 2017, 10:46:49 AM
That would be awesome! There are plenty of smaller yet nice venues in Seattle. The Showbox at The Market would be perfect, or The Triple Door etc. It would be a two hr drive plus ferry ride for me, but totally worth it..
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: TAC on November 29, 2017, 11:26:38 AM
Um....  I'm in a band, right?  And I'm the next thing since sliced bread, and I want to showcase my live skills for the entire world. I have eight dates to really drive the point home, maybe even cut a live album to whet appetites across the globe.

Let's see:
Boston
New York (Hometown, mofos!!)
Philly (Philly has been GREAT to me through my career)
Atlanta
Chicago
Dallas
St. Louis
Los Angeles

Wow.  Wait.  Not those cities?  A casino in Miami?   Atlanta?  Carrboro? Asbury Park, NJ?  Buffalo? Battle Creek? Joliet?  What is this, a book signing tour?

 :lol

Opening for Tempus Vox!



Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on November 29, 2017, 11:29:59 AM
I'd check them out in Asbury Park.  House of Independants is a small (500 capacity), but nice venue.  Saw Amaranthe there about a year ago.   Also, Asbury Park is not some no where spot.  Just saw DT there a couple weeks ago, but Asbury Park is a big music spot in NJ, no shame in playing that town, although they are playing one of the smaller venues in the town. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bill1971 on November 29, 2017, 11:33:56 AM
@Architeuthis:  Portnoy really seems to want to get the band "out there" as much as possible next year, and the dates posted show that he recognizes they will have to start off playing small venues, so I would think he would get them into as many markets as possible playing wherever they can play.  Hopefully, they come your way. 

For me, the music is good enough that I want to see them.  But it isn't "great" enough, and Mike's and Derek's conduct has been offputting enough that I will likely see them only if the show is close enough, convenient enough, and inexpensive enough that it doesn't require a huge commitment on my part.

If they were playing in my kitchen for free, I would most likely go upstairs to my room close the door or take the dogs to the park for a few hours.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Fritzinger on November 29, 2017, 12:00:44 PM
So no meet & greet bullshit this time? Maybe we'll get to meet the guys next to the bus without spending money for it this time.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bosk1 on November 29, 2017, 12:03:07 PM
@Architeuthis:  Portnoy really seems to want to get the band "out there" as much as possible next year, and the dates posted show that he recognizes they will have to start off playing small venues, so I would think he would get them into as many markets as possible playing wherever they can play.  Hopefully, they come your way. 

For me, the music is good enough that I want to see them.  But it isn't "great" enough, and Mike's and Derek's conduct has been offputting enough that I will likely see them only if the show is close enough, convenient enough, and inexpensive enough that it doesn't require a huge commitment on my part.

If they were playing in my kitchen for free, I would most likely go upstairs to my room close the door or take the dogs to the park for a few hours.

And that's clearly your prerogative, Bill.  I won't fault you for it.  It's just one more example of making me shake my head at Mike and Derek, and the fact that they lost "customers" from what should have been an almost-automatic, built-in customer base, and they have no one to blame but themselves. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bill1971 on November 29, 2017, 12:06:21 PM
@Architeuthis:  Portnoy really seems to want to get the band "out there" as much as possible next year, and the dates posted show that he recognizes they will have to start off playing small venues, so I would think he would get them into as many markets as possible playing wherever they can play.  Hopefully, they come your way. 

For me, the music is good enough that I want to see them.  But it isn't "great" enough, and Mike's and Derek's conduct has been offputting enough that I will likely see them only if the show is close enough, convenient enough, and inexpensive enough that it doesn't require a huge commitment on my part.

If they were playing in my kitchen for free, I would most likely go upstairs to my room close the door or take the dogs to the park for a few hours.

And that's clearly your prerogative, Bill.  I won't fault you for it.  It's just one more example of making me shake my head at Mike and Derek, and the fact that they lost "customers" from what should have been an almost-automatic, built-in customer base, and they have no one to blame but themselves.

Obviously I was exaggerating, they couldn't sell out my kitchen.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bosk1 on November 29, 2017, 12:07:33 PM
:lol  If you comp me a ticket, I'm there.  But I call "dibs" on the breakfast nook.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bill1971 on November 29, 2017, 12:08:16 PM
@Architeuthis:  Portnoy really seems to want to get the band "out there" as much as possible next year, and the dates posted show that he recognizes they will have to start off playing small venues, so I would think he would get them into as many markets as possible playing wherever they can play.  Hopefully, they come your way. 

For me, the music is good enough that I want to see them.  But it isn't "great" enough, and Mike's and Derek's conduct has been offputting enough that I will likely see them only if the show is close enough, convenient enough, and inexpensive enough that it doesn't require a huge commitment on my part.

If they were playing in my kitchen for free, I would most likely go upstairs to my room close the door or take the dogs to the park for a few hours.

And that's clearly your prerogative, Bill.  I won't fault you for it.  It's just one more example of making me shake my head at Mike and Derek, and the fact that they lost "customers" from what should have been an almost-automatic, built-in customer base, and they have no one to blame but themselves.

Do you think MP would still recognize you if you went? If I remember correctly you met him at least once.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bill1971 on November 29, 2017, 12:11:21 PM
:lol  If you comp me a ticket, I'm there.  But I call "dibs" on the breakfast nook.

You got it. All the OJ you can drink, on the house. :) After all you have been "hosting" me by providing this amazing forum, which to be honest with you, I wish I came her more often instead of mp.com

I think it would be funny if under the logo on top where it says Dream Theater forums.org you put in parenthesis "Yes, we are still a "thing"
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: TAC on November 29, 2017, 12:24:27 PM
   It's just one more example of making me shake my head at Mike and Derek, and the fact that they lost "customers" from what should have been an almost-automatic, built-in customer base, and they have no one to blame but themselves.

Yup.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bosk1 on November 29, 2017, 12:29:14 PM
@Architeuthis:  Portnoy really seems to want to get the band "out there" as much as possible next year, and the dates posted show that he recognizes they will have to start off playing small venues, so I would think he would get them into as many markets as possible playing wherever they can play.  Hopefully, they come your way. 

For me, the music is good enough that I want to see them.  But it isn't "great" enough, and Mike's and Derek's conduct has been offputting enough that I will likely see them only if the show is close enough, convenient enough, and inexpensive enough that it doesn't require a huge commitment on my part.

If they were playing in my kitchen for free, I would most likely go upstairs to my room close the door or take the dogs to the park for a few hours.

And that's clearly your prerogative, Bill.  I won't fault you for it.  It's just one more example of making me shake my head at Mike and Derek, and the fact that they lost "customers" from what should have been an almost-automatic, built-in customer base, and they have no one to blame but themselves.

Do you think MP would still recognize you if you went? If I remember correctly you met him at least once.
Not sure.  He might not be able to place me just by face.  But he would know me once introduced.  He knows who I am.

:lol  If you comp me a ticket, I'm there.  But I call "dibs" on the breakfast nook.

You got it. All the OJ you can drink, on the house. :) After all you have been "hosting" me by providing this amazing forum, which to be honest with you, I wish I came her more often instead of mp.com

I think it would be funny if under the logo on top where it says Dream Theater forums.org you put in parenthesis "Yes, we are still a "thing"

:rollin  Hmm...  :justjen:
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: nattmorker on November 29, 2017, 12:30:55 PM
@Architeuthis:  Portnoy really seems to want to get the band "out there" as much as possible next year, and the dates posted show that he recognizes they will have to start off playing small venues, so I would think he would get them into as many markets as possible playing wherever they can play.  Hopefully, they come your way. 

For me, the music is good enough that I want to see them.  But it isn't "great" enough, and Mike's and Derek's conduct has been offputting enough that I will likely see them only if the show is close enough, convenient enough, and inexpensive enough that it doesn't require a huge commitment on my part.

If they were playing in my kitchen for free, I would most likely go upstairs to my room close the door or take the dogs to the park for a few hours.

 :rollin :rollin :rollin
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Architeuthis on November 29, 2017, 12:45:55 PM
@Architeuthis:  Portnoy really seems to want to get the band "out there" as much as possible next year, and the dates posted show that he recognizes they will have to start off playing small venues, so I would think he would get them into as many markets as possible playing wherever they can play.  Hopefully, they come your way. 

For me, the music is good enough that I want to see them.  But it isn't "great" enough, and Mike's and Derek's conduct has been offputting enough that I will likely see them only if the show is close enough, convenient enough, and inexpensive enough that it doesn't require a huge commitment on my part.

If they were playing in my kitchen for free, I would most likely go upstairs to my room close the door or take the dogs to the park for a few hours.

 :rollin :rollin :rollin
Would that be the Winery Dogs??  :biggrin:
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: rumborak on November 29, 2017, 01:09:22 PM
Regarding the argument of "these are just the February dates", but have a look at the spacing between them and where they go geographically. They're racing up the East coast, ending up in Illinois. I just doubt they would turn back around and go back down the East coast to Boston and New York City.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: RodrigoAltaf on November 29, 2017, 01:18:14 PM
I'm the absolute minority here in a bunch of issues, and this is another one: I'm all in favour of them playing smaller cities and venues. I saw Dream Theater in Madrid, Barcelona and Pamplona, and by far, Pamplona was the best concert. Small city, small venue, and I got a chance to see them from VERY close, and even ran into Jordan in the streets in the morning of the show. Go and see this band if you can. I'm hoping for a Toronto date to be announced soon.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on November 29, 2017, 01:22:51 PM
Regarding the argument of "these are just the February dates", but have a look at the spacing between them and where they go geographically. They're racing up the East coast, ending up in Illinois. I just doubt they would turn back around and go back down the East coast to Boston and New York City.

Not right after, but maybe later in the year.  Bands do that all the time.  However, I do wonder if this is something for the promoters to test the waters with a new band.  If these shows don't do well, maybe there isn't a second leg.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: noxon on November 29, 2017, 02:33:14 PM
Pretty cheap tickets too - $25 i saw some places.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on November 29, 2017, 02:37:05 PM
Pretty cheap tickets too - $25 i saw some places.

Yea thats the price for NJ.  I am in.  Would be awesome to see these guys in a small venue at one of their first gigs even though I don't totally love the album.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bosk1 on November 29, 2017, 02:40:38 PM
Regarding the argument of "these are just the February dates", but have a look at the spacing between them and where they go geographically.

What "argument?"  That's exactly what it says on their website.  They will be touring throughout 2018, and only have February dates listed so far.  Not sure what exactly you are disputing. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: goo-goo on November 29, 2017, 03:16:43 PM
Regarding the argument of "these are just the February dates", but have a look at the spacing between them and where they go geographically.

What "argument?"  That's exactly what it says on their website.  They will be touring throughout 2018, and only have February dates listed so far.  Not sure what exactly you are disputing.

Wouldn't you start in the bigger cities (bigger markets) and then move to the smaller ones? I see what Stads is trying to say and I kind of agree with him. Why not start with the bigger markets first? Flying Colors did it, AMob did it, DT did it, most of every other band has done it...why not SoA? Feels weird.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on November 29, 2017, 03:30:27 PM
Regarding the argument of "these are just the February dates", but have a look at the spacing between them and where they go geographically.

What "argument?"  That's exactly what it says on their website.  They will be touring throughout 2018, and only have February dates listed so far.  Not sure what exactly you are disputing.

Wouldn't you start in the bigger cities (bigger markets) and then move to the smaller ones? I see what Stads is trying to say and I kind of agree with him. Why not start with the bigger markets first? Flying Colors did it, AMob did it, DT did it, most of every other band has done it...why not SoA? Feels weird.

My guess, promoters.  The same people who booked all those bands mentioned probably look at this project as another one along those lines and don't want to take risks booking bigger events, lets do a test run in small markets and see if people come out.  The album didn't blow up the charts so I am not sure what the turn out will be for these shows and I imagine promoters think the same.  Remember MP struggling to get NA gigs for The Shattered Fortress?  Seems like he needs to start low with this band and build it up, no better way to do that then hit the road with what's available.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bosk1 on November 29, 2017, 03:31:18 PM
Regarding the argument of "these are just the February dates", but have a look at the spacing between them and where they go geographically.

What "argument?"  That's exactly what it says on their website.  They will be touring throughout 2018, and only have February dates listed so far.  Not sure what exactly you are disputing.

Wouldn't you start in the bigger cities (bigger markets) and then move to the smaller ones? I see what Stads is trying to say and I kind of agree with him. Why not start with the bigger markets first? Flying Colors did it, AMob did it, DT did it, most of every other band has done it...why not SoA? Feels weird.

Okay, well that's a different issue.  But as to that issue, whatever.  You can feel the way you feel about it.  But personally, I'm not sure what's "weird" about not starting a tour in NYC, LA, or Boston.  By way of example, DT started their last U.S. tour in Oakland.  Maiden started their 2017 U.S. Book of Souls tour in Bristow, Virginia.  What's the problem?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Skeever on November 29, 2017, 03:43:06 PM
What a terrible selection of dates. That venue in Jersey fits about 300.

At this point, MP would be better off contacting DTFers and asking if he can do basement shows in their homes :D
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: SystematicThought on November 29, 2017, 03:44:21 PM
I'm the absolute minority here in a bunch of issues, and this is another one: I'm all in favour of them playing smaller cities and venues. I saw Dream Theater in Madrid, Barcelona and Pamplona, and by far, Pamplona was the best concert. Small city, small venue, and I got a chance to see them from VERY close, and even ran into Jordan in the streets in the morning of the show. Go and see this band if you can. I'm hoping for a Toronto date to be announced soon.
I think the small venue comments more have to do with MP's comments a few weeks ago about how much he hated playing small venues with Adrenaline Mob and didn't want to go back to that, but here we are in some small venues. Nobody has a problem seeing them in small venues, but at least one member of the band has said he doesn't like playing clubs.*

*I don't know the capacity of all the venues on the tour, I've just seen some numbers thrown around for some and am speaking to those figures.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: rumborak on November 29, 2017, 03:50:57 PM
Wow, some of the venues are teensy. This is the venue in Michigan:

https://www.google.com/maps/@42.3223452,-85.2085474,3a,75y,92.95h,82.28t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s9ZhXfrmCJBggLDEG5I-yqA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: The Walrus on November 29, 2017, 03:52:38 PM
Wow, some of the venues are teensy. This is the venue in Michigan:

https://www.google.com/maps/@42.3223452,-85.2085474,3a,75y,92.95h,82.28t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s9ZhXfrmCJBggLDEG5I-yqA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

WOW.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Podaar on November 29, 2017, 03:55:39 PM
Holy shit, that is small. My buddy has a garage that big!  That being said, I'd totally go there, get ripped and have a good ol' time.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: SystematicThought on November 29, 2017, 03:56:15 PM
Wow, some of the venues are teensy. This is the venue in Michigan:

https://www.google.com/maps/@42.3223452,-85.2085474,3a,75y,92.95h,82.28t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s9ZhXfrmCJBggLDEG5I-yqA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656
Will MP's kit fit in there? Derek's ego?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: TAC on November 29, 2017, 03:56:28 PM
Wow, some of the venues are teensy. This is the venue in Michigan:

https://www.google.com/maps/@42.3223452,-85.2085474,3a,75y,92.95h,82.28t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s9ZhXfrmCJBggLDEG5I-yqA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

WOW.

Wow, they actually ARE playing Bill's kitchen!
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on November 29, 2017, 04:01:05 PM
What a terrible selection of dates. That venue in Jersey fits about 300.

Capacity is closer to 500, 250 for seating.  It's a really nice venue, but yea, it's small.  I don't know what people were expecting them to start off playing.  I think I mentioned something earlier in this thread that Gramercy Theater seemed about right for NYC at 500 capacity. 

A gig is a gig and this band needs to perform to people before they can grow.

I also mentioned that they might be better off supporting a bigger band to get the exposure needed to headline bigger venues.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bill1971 on November 29, 2017, 04:12:18 PM
Wow, some of the venues are teensy. This is the venue in Michigan:

https://www.google.com/maps/@42.3223452,-85.2085474,3a,75y,92.95h,82.28t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s9ZhXfrmCJBggLDEG5I-yqA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

WOW. Wow, they actually ARE playing Bill's kitchen!

Don't insult my kitchen.

:)


On the plus side there is some nice parking across the street if you use Google maps.


Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bill1971 on November 29, 2017, 04:16:26 PM
What a terrible selection of dates. That venue in Jersey fits about 300.

Capacity is closer to 500, 250 for seating.  It's a really nice venue, but yea, it's small.  I don't know what people were expecting them to start off playing.  I think I mentioned something earlier in this thread that Gramercy Theater seemed about right for NYC at 500 capacity. 

A gig is a gig and this band needs to perform to people before they can grow.

I also mentioned that they might be better off supporting a bigger band to get the exposure needed to headline bigger venues.

Like Adrenaline Mob?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bill1971 on November 29, 2017, 04:19:50 PM
Wow, some of the venues are teensy. This is the venue in Michigan:

https://www.google.com/maps/@42.3223452,-85.2085474,3a,75y,92.95h,82.28t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s9ZhXfrmCJBggLDEG5I-yqA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656
Will MP's kit fit in there? Derek's ego?

 :rollin
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Skeever on November 29, 2017, 04:35:22 PM
What a terrible selection of dates. That venue in Jersey fits about 300.

Capacity is closer to 500, 250 for seating.  It's a really nice venue, but yea, it's small.  I don't know what people were expecting them to start off playing.  I think I mentioned something earlier in this thread that Gramercy Theater seemed about right for NYC at 500 capacity. 

A gig is a gig and this band needs to perform to people before they can grow.

I also mentioned that they might be better off supporting a bigger band to get the exposure needed to headline bigger venues.

Not to be a spoil sport, but SoA are a band - no, supergroup - of guys on the decline of their career arcs. The release of their debut album was by far the biggest event with the most publicity that the band will likely ever see. Every week that goes by beyond the release of that album (already several months now) just puts the band further in the rear-view mirror. There's no "starting small" and no growing. The debut album and initial tour was their moment. IMO, their bad attitudes, inability to get a tour schedule right away or in advance of the album, and their bland, phoned in product were the death of them. The guys might not be ready to admit it yet, but my money says that the whole SoA era of MP's career is dead on arrival. MP better see if these guys want to learn how to play some DT songs if he wants to get 'em booked for leg two.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bill1971 on November 29, 2017, 04:56:43 PM
What a terrible selection of dates. That venue in Jersey fits about 300.

Capacity is closer to 500, 250 for seating.  It's a really nice venue, but yea, it's small.  I don't know what people were expecting them to start off playing.  I think I mentioned something earlier in this thread that Gramercy Theater seemed about right for NYC at 500 capacity. 

A gig is a gig and this band needs to perform to people before they can grow.

I also mentioned that they might be better off supporting a bigger band to get the exposure needed to headline bigger venues.

Not to be a spoil sport, but SoA are a band - no, supergroup - of guys on the decline of their career arcs. The release of their debut album was by far the biggest event with the most publicity that the band will likely ever see. Every week that goes by beyond the release of that album (already several months now) just puts the band further in the rear-view mirror. There's no "starting small" and no growing. The debut album and initial tour was their moment. IMO, their bad attitudes, inability to get a tour schedule right away or in advance of the album, and their bland, phoned in product were the death of them. The guys might not be ready to admit it yet, but my money says that the whole SoA era of MP's career is dead on arrival. MP better see if these guys want to learn how to play some DT songs if he wants to get 'em booked for leg two.

As darkly cynical as that post was, I have to agree. For one the whole premise of the band was this great super group. "Ex- Kiss, Ex- DT Ex Journey Ex- Cetera... There is no slow build to this. The guys are in their 50's or 60's (Sheehan) I can't imagine them having the time or patience for this. Considering any one of them can get a hire paying gig as a hired gun in about a month. Such as MP with Twisted Sister.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: rumborak on November 29, 2017, 05:06:44 PM
I also really can't imagine that driving 6 hours from Buffalo, NY to Battle Creek, MI in order to play in that tiny venue is going to be a joyous experience. Not when you're in your 50s and have played stadiums before.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on November 29, 2017, 05:09:04 PM
What a terrible selection of dates. That venue in Jersey fits about 300.

Capacity is closer to 500, 250 for seating.  It's a really nice venue, but yea, it's small.  I don't know what people were expecting them to start off playing.  I think I mentioned something earlier in this thread that Gramercy Theater seemed about right for NYC at 500 capacity. 

A gig is a gig and this band needs to perform to people before they can grow.

I also mentioned that they might be better off supporting a bigger band to get the exposure needed to headline bigger venues.

Not to be a spoil sport, but SoA are a band - no, supergroup - of guys on the decline of their career arcs. The release of their debut album was by far the biggest event with the most publicity that the band will likely ever see. Every week that goes by beyond the release of that album (already several months now) just puts the band further in the rear-view mirror. There's no "starting small" and no growing. The debut album and initial tour was their moment. IMO, their bad attitudes, inability to get a tour schedule right away or in advance of the album, and their bland, phoned in product were the death of them. The guys might not be ready to admit it yet, but my money says that the whole SoA era of MP's career is dead on arrival. MP better see if these guys want to learn how to play some DT songs if he wants to get 'em booked for leg two.

As darkly cynical as that post was, I have to agree. For one the whole premise of the band was this great super group. "Ex- Kiss, Ex- DT Ex Journey Ex- Cetera... There is no slow build to this. The guys are in their 50's or 60's (Sheehan) I can't imagine them having the time or patience for this. Considering any one of them can get a hire paying gig as a hired gun in about a month. Such as MP with Twisted Sister.

I don't really disagree either.  I think they messed things up from MP's first tweet about the band.  But that doesn't change the idea if they want to grow, they need to tour and accept what's available.  Whether or not this band can grow is a different question.  I think it's possible personally.  I didn't love the album, but thought there was potential there that if they took the time to write a better album and not spend so much energy shitting on DT and this forum,  they could do something special.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: KevShmev on November 29, 2017, 05:31:15 PM
Wow, some of the venues are teensy. This is the venue in Michigan:

https://www.google.com/maps/@42.3223452,-85.2085474,3a,75y,92.95h,82.28t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s9ZhXfrmCJBggLDEG5I-yqA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

WOW.

Wow, they actually ARE playing Bill's kitchen!

 :rollin :rollin :rollin :rollin :rollin

On the bright side, they can now brag about selling out venues all over America.  And by venues, I mean casinos and trailers.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bill1971 on November 29, 2017, 05:52:29 PM
Wow, some of the venues are teensy. This is the venue in Michigan:

https://www.google.com/maps/@42.3223452,-85.2085474,3a,75y,92.95h,82.28t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s9ZhXfrmCJBggLDEG5I-yqA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

WOW.

Wow, they actually ARE playing Bill's kitchen!

 :rollin :rollin :rollin :rollin :rollin

On the bright side, they can now brag about selling out venues all over America.  And by venues, I mean casinos and trailers.

If all five band members show up to the show it will be a sell out.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: The Walrus on November 29, 2017, 05:59:46 PM
Skeever's post was dark and cynical but not farfetched and unfortunately I think he's right. This is becoming kind of uncomfortable, honestly - I'm still floored by the size of that Michigan venue. I see weekly comedy shows in a venue bigger than that, and they're free (the inside of it looks cool though, with the walls lined with band logos and art and stuff). I really didn't expect them to play such a small club. The kicker for me is that one of my buddies wants to see MP live and since tix are only $25, if he wants to go, I'll end up going, too (since he doesn't like driving to shows). A dilemma...
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Cool Chris on November 29, 2017, 06:01:36 PM
https://www.google.com/maps/@42.3223452,-85.2085474,3a,75y,92.95h,82.28t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s9ZhXfrmCJBggLDEG5I-yqA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

How did both of the drivers of those cars fuck up parking so badly?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Anguyen92 on November 29, 2017, 06:12:19 PM
What a terrible selection of dates. That venue in Jersey fits about 300.

Capacity is closer to 500, 250 for seating.  It's a really nice venue, but yea, it's small.  I don't know what people were expecting them to start off playing.  I think I mentioned something earlier in this thread that Gramercy Theater seemed about right for NYC at 500 capacity. 

A gig is a gig and this band needs to perform to people before they can grow.

I also mentioned that they might be better off supporting a bigger band to get the exposure needed to headline bigger venues.

Funny thing about that.  Mark Tremonti's solo band started off playing in small venues that's similar to what Sons of Apollo and this is a guy that's a main songwriter for two bands that have headlined arenas and bigger theaters before with Alter Bridge and Creed.  He personally does not mind playing smaller venues and understand that he cannot reach the success that he has attained with his two main bands overnight and he's got to build that brand as a solo band and establish it as a strong live act.

As for Sons of Apollo, I think Cramx is right in the sense that they could have been better off being a support band first to really establish themselves as a live act and if promoters like what they see, then depending on schedule, the band can do their headlining run.  I think they could have been a good shoutout to supporting A7X in arenas in early 2018.  MP absolutely knows them very well and could have been a great platform to present themselves.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Adami on November 29, 2017, 06:14:39 PM


Funny thing about that.  Mark Tremonti's solo band started off playing in small venues that's similar to what Sons of Apollo and this is a guy that's a main songwriter for two bands that have headlined arenas and bigger theaters before with Alter Bridge and Creed.  He personally does not mind playing smaller venues and understand that he cannot reach the success that he has attained with his two main bands overnight and he's got to build that brand as a solo band and establish it as a strong live act.


I assume that's because he knows he's going right back to selling out Wembley with Alter Bridge. If MP was playing sold our arenas and so forth and then also did some smaller tours, he probably wouldn't mind it either.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Anguyen92 on November 29, 2017, 06:24:01 PM


Funny thing about that.  Mark Tremonti's solo band started off playing in small venues that's similar to what Sons of Apollo and this is a guy that's a main songwriter for two bands that have headlined arenas and bigger theaters before with Alter Bridge and Creed.  He personally does not mind playing smaller venues and understand that he cannot reach the success that he has attained with his two main bands overnight and he's got to build that brand as a solo band and establish it as a strong live act.


I assume that's because he knows he's going right back to selling out Wembley with Alter Bridge. If MP was playing sold our arenas and so forth and then also did some smaller tours, he probably wouldn't mind it either.

Yeah, that's honestly a good point.  All right, bad reference there.

I'm seeing Big Wreck in 2018 in Santa Ana, CA (about 20 minutes south of Anaheim).  The capacity is only 300 people, but they are not big in the states as they are in Canada (which they can comfortably sell 1,000 people+ venues) which is sad since all of their albums have been, at the very least, good.  They've been around for a while as well.  They probably understand they got to get out there in small venues and try to build from there to get a footing in the states.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: SystematicThought on November 29, 2017, 06:49:19 PM
https://www.google.com/maps/@42.3223452,-85.2085474,3a,75y,92.95h,82.28t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s9ZhXfrmCJBggLDEG5I-yqA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

How did both of the drivers of those cars fuck up parking so badly?
For the pickup too, do they just drive across the grass to get in that spot?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Adami on November 29, 2017, 06:52:24 PM
Guys, don't be so cynical. New bands have to work their way up. In 10-20 years, I can really see SoA going places.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: TAC on November 29, 2017, 06:56:40 PM
https://www.google.com/maps/@42.3223452,-85.2085474,3a,75y,92.95h,82.28t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s9ZhXfrmCJBggLDEG5I-yqA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

How did both of the drivers of those cars fuck up parking so badly?
For the pickup too, do they just drive across the grass to get in that spot?

 :lol

This is literally the most ridiculous thing I've seen in a long f'n time.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: The Walrus on November 29, 2017, 07:07:19 PM
I can't believe I didn't notice how ridiculous those parking spaces are  :rollin
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Adami on November 29, 2017, 07:08:43 PM
That's like 20 parking spots available. Good god.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ytserush on November 29, 2017, 07:09:10 PM
Regarding the argument of "these are just the February dates", but have a look at the spacing between them and where they go geographically.

What "argument?"  That's exactly what it says on their website.  They will be touring throughout 2018, and only have February dates listed so far.  Not sure what exactly you are disputing.

Wouldn't you start in the bigger cities (bigger markets) and then move to the smaller ones? I see what Stads is trying to say and I kind of agree with him. Why not start with the bigger markets first? Flying Colors did it, AMob did it, DT did it, most of every other band has done it...why not SoA? Feels weird.

My guess, promoters.  The same people who booked all those bands mentioned probably look at this project as another one along those lines and don't want to take risks booking bigger events, lets do a test run in small markets and see if people come out.  The album didn't blow up the charts so I am not sure what the turn out will be for these shows and I imagine promoters think the same.  Remember MP struggling to get NA gigs for The Shattered Fortress?  Seems like he needs to start low with this band and build it up, no better way to do that then hit the road with what's available.

Exactly. You have to start somewhere.

This is just a trial run. If it bombs, then they're in trouble.

That said I won't be making the $25 commitment although tickets are less than I expected.

I can't see why they wouldn't be able to fill these venues. This is geared to the people who think this is Dream Theater Mach II.

I think it's a smart move even if it's the only one they can make at this point.

Get on some Euro-festivals and use those to book small US club dates and see what happens.

Shouldn't be a surprise.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: TAC on November 29, 2017, 07:21:55 PM
Venue in North Carolina:

(https://www.thirdav.com/hd_discog/clubs/carrboro_catscradle-2.jpg)
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Sycsa on November 29, 2017, 07:35:09 PM
It's just one more example of making me shake my head at Mike and Derek, and the fact that they lost "customers" from what should have been an almost-automatic, built-in customer base, and they have no one to blame but themselves.
+1. I was really hyped when they released the snippets. I wanted to pre-order the album at first, but ended up not buying it at all.

I also really can't imagine that driving 6 hours from Buffalo, NY to Battle Creek, MI in order to play in that tiny venue is going to be a joyous experience. Not when you're in your 50s and have played stadiums before.
Thinking about Derek's burger flippin' comment, my schadenfreude can't help but kick in a bit.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ytserush on November 29, 2017, 07:52:05 PM
Venue in North Carolina:

(https://www.thirdav.com/hd_discog/clubs/carrboro_catscradle-2.jpg)

Well, there are some who would like a return to the Falling Into Infinity era of Dream Theater. Now, they will have that chance to experience it again.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: TAC on November 29, 2017, 07:58:55 PM
And the old Talas days.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: contest_sanity on November 29, 2017, 08:03:05 PM
The Atlanta venue, Variety Playhouse, has an 1100 capacity, so it's no hole in the wall. 25 bucks? I might consider going. It would definitely be more to just see the guys play live and enjoy a DT song or two, though, rather than on the strength of the SoA debut itself.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Madman Shepherd on November 29, 2017, 08:24:19 PM
I kinda feel weird saying this but the botched roll out and their underwhelming tour make me want to check this out.  I honestly thought this band would have more success than this.  They said they were at the very least going to make a second album and tour.  Mike already said by the second tour they would not do any DT cover songs and it would be exclusively SoA.  They had big plans and I had no reason to not believe they would succeed although maybe not to the degree they were hoping. 

I'm starting to think that maybe we might not get a second SoA album.  In fact, I'm surprised nobody has talked about this but in an interview posted a week ago, Mike made a comment about feeling the grind and wanting to retire.  The interviewer didn't follow up so who knows, maybe Mike made an offhanded comment and wasn't really serious.  Maybe he was thinking, "In a few years..." or maybe he really is wrapping it up. 

https://youtu.be/wWoYo0qYGw8?t=448

Either way, I'm leaning towards checking them out.  Kattleox, if you decide to drive to Joliet with your friend, we can all wear A Dramatic Turn of Events t-shirts.




Kidding of course....about the t-shirts anyway.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Lethean on November 29, 2017, 08:55:56 PM
If MP and DS had handled things differently, then even though I don't like the album, I'd go to one of the shows anyway.  Whether it was a small venue, big venue, etc.  I would have been happy to do it, and would have hoped I'd enjoy the live show even though the album isn't good.  As it stands now, I won't be seeing them. If they want to issue an apology for all the crap, and manage to avoid all of the nastiness until their tour, maybe I'd change my mind.

As for the venue sizes - I don't know if it's that big of a deal really.  Opeth played the Forge in Joliet within the last 5 years.  Fates Warning played there as well.  Fates is a legendary prog metal band and they don't draw better than that.  Plenty of other bands do worse.  I get that it's a far cry from what MP's done with DT (and certainly A7X and Twisted Sister), and I wouldn't at all be surprised if the name recognition for him and some of the other guys draws people to the shows who wouldn't catch a band like Fates Warning, but... I don't think it's a shock that they're playing these small places and it doesn't mean they suck.  If MP was truly expecting to play huge venues, then I suppose this'll be a huge disappointment but I don't really think that's the case - he had to know they'd be starting small.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Madman Shepherd on November 29, 2017, 08:58:07 PM
If MP and DS had handled things differently, then even though I don't like the album, I'd go to one of the shows anyway.  Whether it was a small venue, big venue, etc.  I would have been happy to do it, and would have hoped I'd enjoy the live show even though the album isn't good.  As it stands now, I won't be seeing them. If they want to issue an apology for all the crap, and manage to avoid all of the nastiness until their tour, maybe I'd change my mind.

As for the venue sizes - I don't know if it's that big of a deal really.  Opeth played the Forge in Joliet within the last 5 years.  Fates Warning played there as well.  Fates is a legendary prog metal band and they don't draw better than that.  Plenty of other bands do worse.  I get that it's a far cry from what MP's done with DT (and certainly A7X and Twisted Sister), and I wouldn't at all be surprised if the name recognition for him and some of the other guys draws people to the shows who wouldn't catch a band like Fates Warning, but... I don't think it's a shock that they're playing these small places and it doesn't mean they suck.  If MP was truly expecting to play huge venues, then I suppose this'll be a huge disappointment but I don't really think that's the case - he had to know they'd be starting small.

The Forge isn't a bad venue at all.  But some of these other venues they're playing at....
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ReaperKK on November 29, 2017, 09:12:13 PM
Venue in North Carolina:

(https://www.thirdav.com/hd_discog/clubs/carrboro_catscradle-2.jpg)

Well, there are some who would like a return to the Falling Into Infinity era of Dream Theater. Now, they will have that chance to experience it again.

It’s too bad they aren’t playing closer to Charlotte. I’d go.

I’ve also been the Miami casino show for a singer my gf likes, it’s frankly terrible but mainly because of the crowd. It’s an odd setup, it’s a stage in a huge building with a set of bleachers. The crowd I saw seemed like they were mainly comped tickets and not interested. I hope they get a much better audience.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: The Walrus on November 29, 2017, 09:33:43 PM
Either way, I'm leaning towards checking them out.  Kattleox, if you decide to drive to Joliet with your friend, we can all wear A Dramatic Turn of Events t-shirts.

 :lol  :lol
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Adami on November 29, 2017, 09:36:04 PM
You should be more subtle. If you get to meet MP or DS, tell them you thought the album was astonishing.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Anguyen92 on November 29, 2017, 09:52:40 PM
I’ve also been the Miami casino show for a singer my gf likes, it’s frankly terrible but mainly because of the crowd. It’s an odd setup, it’s a stage in a huge building with a set of bleachers. The crowd I saw seemed like they were mainly comped tickets and not interested. I hope they get a much better audience.

I've been to a show at a casino and the atmosphere and crowd was the worst ever, the band was really good though.  County fairs, House of Blues, a renovated arena, and an old theater had a better atmosphere by far than a casino show.  I just hope a small concert hall that can fit only 300 people has a similar good atmosphere and not of a casino one.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: rumborak on November 29, 2017, 10:06:48 PM
I can't shake the  Spinal Tap (https://i.cdn.turner.com/v5cache/TCM/Images/Dynamic/i443/thisisspinaltap_hellocleveland_FC_470x264_062020170228.jpg) vibe here I must say.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Madman Shepherd on November 29, 2017, 10:14:37 PM
You should be more subtle. If you get to meet MP or DS, tell them you thought the album was astonishing.

Maybe bring Scenes From a Memory for Mike to sign and then turn to Derek and say "I couldn't really hear your keyboard parts but you can still sign it I guess."
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: PetFish on November 29, 2017, 10:26:23 PM
I really feel sorry for Bumble, Billy, and JSS in this whole debacle.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Lethean on November 29, 2017, 10:52:26 PM
I really feel sorry for Bumble, Billy, and JSS in this whole debacle.
So do I, but I saw Bumblefoot live solo, and if JSS tours for his solo album I'll try to see that too. :)  Perhaps buy some of their solo albums too.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ProfessorPeart on November 29, 2017, 10:59:38 PM
I was hoping for an Arcada show. Not fond of having to go to Joliet. Either way, I'm seeing Machine Head only a few days later in Chicago. Not sure I can pull 2 shows within a few days. At this point, the only way I would see myself going is if they have the Galactic Cowboys open. Otherwise, I might have to wait and see if they come around again.

I guess that I can also add that my tickets for Machine Head are also $25. They are playing an Evening With show as well.

I'd love to see SOA at that price point but I'm getting a little old for 2 shows like that in a week.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Sycsa on November 30, 2017, 06:08:55 AM
in an interview posted a week ago, Mike made a comment about feeling the grind and wanting to retire.  The interviewer didn't follow up so who knows, maybe Mike made an offhanded comment and wasn't really serious.  Maybe he was thinking, "In a few years..." or maybe he really is wrapping it up. 

https://youtu.be/wWoYo0qYGw8?t=448
I'm just speculating here, but I think Mike is in that "second tier celebrity sweet spot" where he can afford to live luxuriously, but couldn't afford to retire. He's probably the most well-off in the extended DT family though, that's why he could afford the proposed hiatus, while the others not so much.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: MirrorMask on November 30, 2017, 06:25:07 AM
Well, the day he decides he doesn't want to be an active musician anymore, couldn't he give drum lessons or produce records? for better or worse he did sit at the producer's desk with JP, he knows the stuff, he could do it for other bands, or he could even get involved more in the business side of organizing concerts, his talent to find out proper bands to assemble a bill shouldn't go to waste when he will eventually stop touring.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Stadler on November 30, 2017, 08:12:24 AM
I've long said that I can't believe he hasn't had offers to be "Abe Laboriel, Jr.", meaning, be the guy on call for a big name touring act.   Roger Waters.   Billy Joel (well, he has Chuck Burgi now).   Even a Taytay Swizzle.   Something like that. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ganpondorodf on November 30, 2017, 08:17:47 AM
I think he likes being the centre of attention too much to drum for a big act full time
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bill1971 on November 30, 2017, 08:34:36 AM
I don't even think it's bad when bands play smaller venues, for those in So Cal there is place called The Coach House in San Juan Capistrano where I saw Living Colour in the past  and Tate's most recent acoustic tour.  The thing I find amusing, well at least pertaining to DS and MP, not the other guys is that after all that bravado and crap talking they are playing these super small venues. Even though MP defends him I can't help but think he is a bit ticked at him losing sales even if it was just 20 people.
Its been said many different ways here but if they were humble and gracious, I would be inclined to buy the album and see them.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: portnoy311 on November 30, 2017, 08:47:03 AM
I've long said that I can't believe he hasn't had offers to be "Abe Laboriel, Jr.", meaning, be the guy on call for a big name touring act.   Roger Waters.   Billy Joel (well, he has Chuck Burgi now).   Even a Taytay Swizzle.   Something like that.

He doesn't have the skillset for those gigs. Seriously. They require monster groove monkeys. Guys that can make the most simplistic patterns SING (as well as technical pieces). That is not MP.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: The Walrus on November 30, 2017, 08:54:18 AM
I don't think T-Swift would take kindly to MP showboating and spitting everywhere :P
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bill1971 on November 30, 2017, 10:11:33 AM
I don't think T-Swift would take kindly to MP showboating and spitting everywhere :P

Yes or the added growl singing

You Belong With Me
Taylor Swift

You're on the phone with your girlfriend
GIRLFRIEND!
She's upset
SHE IS UPSET!
She's going off about something that you said
SAIIIDDD


Or trying to harmonize every line with her.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: JayOctavarium on November 30, 2017, 10:12:31 AM
I don't think T-Swift would take kindly to MP showboating and spitting everywhere :P

Yes or the added growl singing

You Belong With Me
Taylor Swift

You're on the phone with your girlfriend
GIRLFRIEND!
She's upset
SHE IS UPSET!
She's going off about something that you said
SAIIIDDD


Or trying to harmonize every line with her.


COngrats. I just spit my soda.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: The Walrus on November 30, 2017, 10:14:23 AM
I don't think T-Swift would take kindly to MP showboating and spitting everywhere :P

Yes or the added growl singing

You Belong With Me
Taylor Swift

You're on the phone with your girlfriend
GIRLFRIEND!
She's upset
SHE IS UPSET!
She's going off about something that you said
SAIIIDDD


Or trying to harmonize every line with her.

 :rollin
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Cool Chris on November 30, 2017, 10:33:53 AM
As hilarious as that is (bravo, Bill) are those actually Taylor Swift lyrics?!?

The internet tells me they are. Good God.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Madman Shepherd on November 30, 2017, 10:35:10 AM
MP: Well Taylor, I've got good news and bad news.
TS: ....
MP: I just quit Sons of Apollo but that means I can be with you guys!
TS: Uh, that's not necessarily what we agreed on.
MP: ...but I already out out my press release.


Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: The Walrus on November 30, 2017, 10:39:10 AM
As hilarious as that is (bravo, Bill) are those actually Taylor Swift lyrics?!?

The internet tells me they are. Good God.

I don't want to turn this into a Taylor Swift thread but c'mon, they're pop lyrics to a pop song written by a girl about boys. Ain't nothing terribly offensive about them other than how bland they are.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Orbert on November 30, 2017, 11:09:01 AM
True.  Also, I can't help but think that those songs might actually be improved with some MP growly vocals.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: mikeyd23 on November 30, 2017, 11:21:41 AM
MP: Well Taylor, I've got good news and bad news.
TS: ....
MP: I just quit Sons of Apollo but that means I can be with you guys!
TS: Uh, that's not necessarily what we agreed on.
MP: ...but I already out out my press release.

 :lol
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: rumborak on November 30, 2017, 11:32:15 AM
As hilarious as that is (bravo, Bill) are those actually Taylor Swift lyrics?!?

The internet tells me they are. Good God.

Please, excuse me
Sir can you help me?
Where can I find this man?
Sorry, can't speak
Someone is waiting
Yes, I understand

I mean, just saying...
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: AngelBack on November 30, 2017, 11:40:38 AM
As hilarious as that is (bravo, Bill) are those actually Taylor Swift lyrics?!?

The internet tells me they are. Good God.

Please, excuse me
Sir can you help me?
Where can I find this man?
Sorry, can't speak
Someone is waiting
Yes, I understand

I mean, just saying...

Ouch!!
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Nick on November 30, 2017, 11:44:07 AM
Gotta say, that with MP steering things, and with his history, I'm really surprised that Philly and/or NYC aren't on that first run of dates. I know they will come, but it's just weird not seeing them on the initial jaunt.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bill1971 on November 30, 2017, 12:51:00 PM
As hilarious as that is (bravo, Bill) are those actually Taylor Swift lyrics?!?

The internet tells me they are. Good God.

Yes, I had to google it. :)

Really

Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bill1971 on November 30, 2017, 12:51:25 PM
MP: Well Taylor, I've got good news and bad news.
TS: ....
MP: I just quit Sons of Apollo but that means I can be with you guys!
TS: Uh, that's not necessarily what we agreed on.
MP: ...but I already out out my press release.

 :rollin

Perfect
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Cool Chris on November 30, 2017, 01:47:21 PM
As hilarious as that is (bravo, Bill) are those actually Taylor Swift lyrics?!?

The internet tells me they are. Good God.

Please, excuse me
Sir can you help me?
Where can I find this man?
Sorry, can't speak
Someone is waiting
Yes, I understand

I mean, just saying...

Indeed. I had to think about that for a minute. My first thought was that you were quoting from a 1990s Super Nintendo RPG.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on November 30, 2017, 02:04:26 PM
As hilarious as that is (bravo, Bill) are those actually Taylor Swift lyrics?!?

The internet tells me they are. Good God.

Please, excuse me
Sir can you help me?
Where can I find this man?
Sorry, can't speak
Someone is waiting
Yes, I understand

I mean, just saying...

Indeed. I had to think about that for a minute. My first thought was that you were quoting from a 1990s Super Nintendo RPG.

Not that TA doesn't have cheesy lyrics, it certainly does, but it's not a good comparison between a pop song and a rock opera lyrics between different characters.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: JayOctavarium on November 30, 2017, 02:14:35 PM
As hilarious as that is (bravo, Bill) are those actually Taylor Swift lyrics?!?

The internet tells me they are. Good God.

Please, excuse me
Sir can you help me?
Where can I find this man?
Sorry, can't speak
Someone is waiting
Yes, I understand

I mean, just saying...

Indeed. I had to think about that for a minute. My first thought was that you were quoting from a 1990s Super Nintendo RPG.

Not that TA doesn't have cheesy lyrics, it certainly does, but it's not a good comparison between a pop song and a rock opera lyrics between different characters.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bill1971 on November 30, 2017, 03:17:04 PM
As hilarious as that is (bravo, Bill) are those actually Taylor Swift lyrics?!?

The internet tells me they are. Good God.

Please, excuse me
Sir can you help me?
Where can I find this man?
Sorry, can't speak
Someone is waiting
Yes, I understand

I mean, just saying...

Indeed. I had to think about that for a minute. My first thought was that you were quoting from a 1990s Super Nintendo RPG.

That's funny. Now I am imagining an 8 bit Nomac.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Destiny Of Chaos on November 30, 2017, 03:42:44 PM
The band won some fan poll awards at the Prog Report. Much deserved!!

Okay back to the hating.......
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Mark Levinson Jr. on November 30, 2017, 04:11:45 PM
Wow, some of the venues are teensy. This is the venue in Michigan:

https://www.google.com/maps/@42.3223452,-85.2085474,3a,75y,92.95h,82.28t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s9ZhXfrmCJBggLDEG5I-yqA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656
Will MP's kit fit in there? Derek's ego?

 :rollin

Wow, this is outrageous! Look around with Google maps...
"We're right in between the vacant lot with all the dumpsters and the abandoned gas station, you can't miss it!"

In contrast, here's where DT's next gig is:
https://www.jambase.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/bass-concert-hall-bass-concert-hall-bass-concert-hall_austin_05-01-15_21_5542c898be5e2.jpg

Crazy difference, eh?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Destiny Of Chaos on November 30, 2017, 05:41:50 PM
Wow, some of the venues are teensy. This is the venue in Michigan:

https://www.google.com/maps/@42.3223452,-85.2085474,3a,75y,92.95h,82.28t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s9ZhXfrmCJBggLDEG5I-yqA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656
Will MP's kit fit in there? Derek's ego?

 :rollin

Wow, this is outrageous! Look around with Google maps...
"We're right in between the vacant lot with all the dumpsters and the abandon gas station, you can't miss it!"

In contrast, here's where DT's next gig is:
https://www.jambase.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/bass-concert-hall-bass-concert-hall-bass-concert-hall_austin_05-01-15_21_5542c898be5e2.jpg

Crazy difference, eh?

Huge difference, but lets not pretend that MP isn't a BIG reason why DT are playing those venues.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Mark Levinson Jr. on November 30, 2017, 05:43:10 PM
Wow, some of the venues are teensy. This is the venue in Michigan:

https://www.google.com/maps/@42.3223452,-85.2085474,3a,75y,92.95h,82.28t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s9ZhXfrmCJBggLDEG5I-yqA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656
Will MP's kit fit in there? Derek's ego?

 :rollin

Wow, this is outrageous! Look around with Google maps...
"We're right in between the vacant lot with all the dumpsters and the abandon gas station, you can't miss it!"

In contrast, here's where DT's next gig is:
https://www.jambase.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/bass-concert-hall-bass-concert-hall-bass-concert-hall_austin_05-01-15_21_5542c898be5e2.jpg

Crazy difference, eh?

Huge difference, but lets not pretend that MP isn't a BIG reason why DT are playing those venues.

Yes, that is true.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: PetFish on November 30, 2017, 05:45:24 PM
(https://emilyvolman.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/run_the_world_vs_bohemian_rhapsody-109577.jpg)

 :facepalm:  :facepalm:  :facepalm:  :facepalm:  :facepalm:
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: rumborak on November 30, 2017, 06:13:29 PM
Whoever made that picture has no clue what the point of pop music is.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bill1971 on November 30, 2017, 06:16:38 PM
Wow, some of the venues are teensy. This is the venue in Michigan:

https://www.google.com/maps/@42.3223452,-85.2085474,3a,75y,92.95h,82.28t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s9ZhXfrmCJBggLDEG5I-yqA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656
Will MP's kit fit in there? Derek's ego?

 :rollin

Wow, this is outrageous! Look around with Google maps...
"We're right in between the vacant lot with all the dumpsters and the abandon gas station, you can't miss it!"

In contrast, here's where DT's next gig is:
https://www.jambase.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/bass-concert-hall-bass-concert-hall-bass-concert-hall_austin_05-01-15_21_5542c898be5e2.jpg

Crazy difference, eh?

Huge difference, but lets not pretend that MP isn't a BIG reason why DT are playing those venues.

Yes, he definitely was a big part of building and promoting the band, I don't think anyone here disputes that.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ProfessorPeart on November 30, 2017, 06:28:57 PM
Well, MP just confirmed on Twitter that he offered the Galactic Cowboys the opening slot and they had to decline due to scheduling. Looks like I will be skipping this run.

He said that he will offer them a slot again later for a different leg. Oh well.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Anxiety35 on November 30, 2017, 06:53:07 PM

This tells us that it's more about the music than the artist. I get that the Shattered Fortress also brought the element of nostalgia to the mix but in my opinion, I like the 12 step suite much more than the SOA release.

UPDATE: The majority of votes on the poll are in the 5-7 out of 10 range with 7 garnering the most votes.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ReaperKK on November 30, 2017, 08:54:59 PM
At this point if SoA was coming I'd go to see Ron mainly and MP second.

I feel the same towards Steven Wilson, his music is good but unless he is touring with PT or with Guthrie I'll pass on seeing him.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: gzarruk on November 30, 2017, 09:21:36 PM
MP: Well Taylor, I've got good news and bad news.
TS: ....
MP: I just quit Sons of Apollo but that means I can be with you guys!
TS: Uh, that's not necessarily what we agreed on.
MP: ...but I already out out my press release.

 :lol

 :rollin
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bill1971 on November 30, 2017, 11:44:09 PM
  • Shattered Fortress shows - decent venues & mostly sold out from what I gather. Were fans there just to see MP & Haken or to hear those DT songs?

    Sons Of Apollo shows - not so great venues that may sell out (due to smaller size). Are people going just to see MP & the band or to hear the SOA songs?

This tells us that it's more about the music than the artist. I get that the Shattered Fortress also brought the element of nostalgia to the mix but in my opinion, I like the 12 step suite much more than the SOA release.

UPDATE: The majority of votes on the poll are in the 5-7 out of 10 range with 7 garnering the most votes.

I think it is much more to see the songs than the artist. Otherwise AMob would have been as successful as The Winery Dogs
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: portnoy311 on December 01, 2017, 02:18:09 AM
But a lot of people were actively turned off by AMob. Overweight middle aged dudes playing nu metal tough manning their way through songs about wannabes is much harder to swallow than the Winery Dogs.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: MirrorMask on December 01, 2017, 03:18:18 AM
Gods, that Music Factory venue and that parking.

I hope it's nice inside and that it will turn out a small, intimate and energetic evening... and that people going to the concert will learn to park better!!!
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: noxon on December 01, 2017, 05:08:04 AM
But a lot of people were actively turned off by AMob. Overweight middle aged dudes playing nu metal tough manning their way through songs about wannabes is much harder to swallow than the Winery Dogs.


... isn't that pretty much what sons of apollo is too? ;)
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: MirrorMask on December 01, 2017, 05:17:42 AM
Well, Coming Home lyrics aside, I wouldn't really say  :D
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: contest_sanity on December 01, 2017, 06:32:46 AM
Well, MP just confirmed on Twitter that he offered the Galactic Cowboys the opening slot and they had to decline due to scheduling.
(https://i.imgur.com/LEXIVCp.gif)
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Orbert on December 01, 2017, 07:23:51 AM
Gods, that Music Factory venue and that parking.

I hope it's nice inside and that it will turn out a small, intimate and energetic evening... and that people going to the concert will learn to park better!!!

It's not.  It's Battle Creek, Michigan.  I've been there.  It's a dive in the middle of nowhere where people living in the middle of nowhere can go drink beer and listen to loud live music after working all day.  Sons of Apollo will do fine there.  They'll sound great, the crowd will be appreciative, but they won't know these guys from any of the 10-cent garage bands that come through there.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: goo-goo on December 01, 2017, 07:25:23 AM
But a lot of people were actively turned off by AMob. Overweight middle aged dudes playing nu metal tough manning their way through songs about wannabes is much harder to swallow than the Winery Dogs.

You got to give credit were credit is due. Post-MP, the band has (was, before the accident) been very active. They kept releasing music and their tours kept getting longer and longer. The last summer tour they did was 1.5 months long and were hitting a lot of the bigger cities (small venues) and smaller cities. There was an audience for AMob. The last time I saw them they pretty much sold out the venue they were playing in Austin or Dallas (about 500-600). If Amob was unsuccessful, I'm pretty sure they wouldn't be touring or at least just hitting the major markets. IIRC, AMob got an opening slot for Godsmack. I don't recall if MP was still in the band at this point. So for as cheesy Amob has been, they had a market and a decent following. Hell, they always put on a great live show.

https://www.adrenalinemob.com/?page_id=1711

On the other hand, Winery Dogs hit it right off the table. Both shows I saw in Dallas were pretty much packed (about 700-800, possibly more?). To be honest, I don't think the douchebagery by DS or MP will affect the touring numbers. The size (and cities) of these venues will and it will be interested if the band itself doesn't deflate after this 1st round in the US and just concentrate on the bigger cities with short tour stints in the US. I could see SoA doing a whole lot better in Europe and Japan.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Stadler on December 01, 2017, 07:28:24 AM
Whoever made that picture has no clue what the point of pop music is.

I love how it implies that Bohemian Rhapsody is deep and meaningful (it might be; Freddie never went on record as to what the words meant, though he purportedly told Roger Taylor who hasn't spilled the beans.   We do know, though, that the operatic section was more a phonetic exercise than a literal one.)

Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: antigoon on December 01, 2017, 07:57:13 AM
how will beyonce ever recover from such a savage burn
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bill1971 on December 01, 2017, 08:08:36 AM
how will beyonce ever recover from such a savage burn

By telling us to go back to flipping burgers. :)
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bosk1 on December 01, 2017, 08:11:41 AM
Well, MP just confirmed on Twitter that he offered the Galactic Cowboys the opening slot and they had to decline due to scheduling.

BUT...I already put out a press release!  :(
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on December 01, 2017, 11:35:28 AM
Got a ticket for Asbury Park.  $33 after fees and paying for the ticket stub.  Not bad.  People may be shitting on the venues, but I am excited to see these guys in a small spot.  Should be an energetic show IMO.  Not a bad way to spend a Thursday night.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bill1971 on December 01, 2017, 03:07:06 PM
Got a ticket for Asbury Park.  $33 after fees and paying for the ticket stub.  Not bad.  People may be shitting on the venues, but I am excited to see these guys in a small spot.  Should be an energetic show IMO.  Not a bad way to spend a Thursday night.

I love small venues, I just think it's funny after MP and DS's bravado. I respect bands that will play anywhere they can get. I loved seeing Tate and Living Colour in small venues.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on December 01, 2017, 03:13:22 PM
I just think it's funny after MP and DS's bravado.

Yea, kind of sums up SOA really.  I haven't really seen much bravado lately on twitter, could of just missed it, but if they've stopped it that's a good sign. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Dave_Manchester on December 01, 2017, 03:23:20 PM
I just think it's funny after MP and DS's bravado.

Yea, kind of sums up SOA really.  I haven't really seen much bravado lately on twitter, could of just missed it, but if they've stopped it that's a good sign.

The album tanked on release and nobody anywhere is talking about this band other than the few of us in this thread. It would be difficult now for Derek to wheel out his "this band is gonna be HUGE!!" shtick, and claim they're about to overthrow Dream Theater as the "kings of prog metal" (DT who are now mixing their Budokan show as SoA prepare to play an outhouse with a liquor licence). Derek has gone silent not because he's realised his approach was stupid and harmful to his band and offensive to his most likely audience, but because even he realises how silly it would be to declare his new band the "kings of prog metal" as they book venues only accessible by helicopter. In short, the band hasn't been the hit he or MP imagined it would be. Almost nobody gives a shit about them, having heard the album, and his misplaced braggadocio looks even more foolish now than it did before the album release. That's why the cocky 'Del Fuvian' wit has ground to a halt.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on December 01, 2017, 03:29:04 PM
Fair enough, but it stopped so that's still good.  Maybe they learned a bit of a lesson about being too cocky and playing some small clubs will be a humbling experience.  Maybe they can use this, not their dislike of DT, to fuel their next album and actually create some music with soul and not just pump something out after a week in the studio.  Assuming there is a next album of course.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Podaar on December 01, 2017, 03:32:48 PM
I just think it's funny after MP and DS's bravado.

Yea, kind of sums up SOA really.  I haven't really seen much bravado lately on twitter, could of just missed it, but if they've stopped it that's a good sign.

The album tanked on release and nobody anywhere is talking about this band other than the few of us in this thread. It would be difficult now for Derek to wheel out his "this band is gonna be HUGE!!" shtick, and claim they're about to overthrow Dream Theater as the "kings of prog metal" (DT who are now mixing their Budokan show as SoA prepare to play an outhouse with a liquor licence). Derek has gone silent not because he's realised his approach was stupid and harmful to his band and offensive to his most likely audience, but because even he realises how silly it would be to declare his new band the "kings of prog metal" as they book venues only accessible by helicopter. In short, the band hasn't been the hit he or MP imagined it would be. Almost nobody gives a shit about them, having heard the album, and his misplaced braggadocio looks even more foolish now than it did before the album release. That's why the cocky 'Del Fuvian' wit has ground to a halt.

I laughed way harder at the bolded portion than I should have. It just struck me as really funny.

I personally hope their tour is a success, at least enough to get a second album because I suspect it could be infinitely better than this first one.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: TAC on December 01, 2017, 03:34:03 PM
Very funny line there.

Seeing those guys in a very small place would be great.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Podaar on December 01, 2017, 03:38:30 PM
BTW, I don't know if it's been discussed, but what is the source of 'Del Fuvian' anyway.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: rumborak on December 01, 2017, 03:39:51 PM
I was tempted to see them in NJ, but man, coming from MA, that would just be craptastic to get to. If they played in Atlantic City I would probably go.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: The Walrus on December 01, 2017, 03:40:57 PM
Derek's 'Sherinianisms' remind me of the scene in Step Brothers when Derek goes up to the treehouse to brag about himself to John C. Reilly and Will Ferrell. Dave's post is when JCR punches him out of the tree.  :lol

The 'Del Fuvio' thing comes from the FII days, I guess the producer called Sherinian and Portnoy the 'Del Fuvio' brothers, whatever that means.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: rumborak on December 01, 2017, 03:42:05 PM
BTW, I don't know if it's been discussed, but what is the source of 'Del Fuvian' anyway.

MP's alter ego during the Nightmare Cinema days was "Max del Fuvio".
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Dave_Manchester on December 01, 2017, 03:43:35 PM
Fair enough, but it stopped so that's still good.  Maybe they learned a bit of a lesson about being too cocky and playing some small clubs will be a humbling experience.  Maybe they can use this, not their dislike of DT, to fuel their next album and actually create some music with soul and not just pump something out after a week in the studio.  Assuming there is a next album of course.

Hopefully. They really did fuck the entire promotional thing up right from the start, from the moment MP lashed out on his Forum at people speculating on who was in the band based on that picture that guitar (or keyboard? Don't remember) tech posted (how Mike would love to have that level of enthusiasm for the band now), to the whole misguided "The MP Warriors will love it if we trash DT every day!" PR campaign.

Those of us on MP's forum tried to tell him to have a word with Derek and put a stop to it. He responded by saying we didn't get the Del Fuvian wit and closed his forum. You all know the story by now.  Have they learnt from it? Time will show. I know MP reads this thread. He still has a tonne of fans who love his work, and who like him personally, and that includes me, but this was done all wrong, and I think it's part of the reason the project has got off to a terrible start. They ought to have foregone the 'Del Fuvian wit' and respected the efforts of Jeff, Billy and Ron, who also gave their time and effort to this project and wanted to see it succeed. It was inappropriate for MP and DS to bring their weird beef with DT into it. If all this was meant to be was some petty revenge project, why bring others into it?

But it's old news of course. As I just wrote elsewhere, I'm in a bizarrely bitter mood tonight. Gonna have a wine now.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: wolven74 on December 01, 2017, 04:17:06 PM
hey all... Haven't been around for a while. Haven't even been lurking. Wondered what you guys thought of SoA. My take is that its a killer record. I will say that, while some of the guitar work is semi intricate, I can't really call bumblefoot a shredder. He's got some good rhythm and a few nice flourishes here and there, but if you compared him to many other players he'd come up kinda wanting to be honest. That being said, this album reminds me of the old DT stuff, which I've really been missing. I've been looking for some new prog metal to get into. This gives me that feel I had when I first got into DT. I've missed the really proggy instrumental sections of their songs. God of the Sun is one of the best tracks I've heard in a while. Long, intricate middle section... killer riff. To be honest, this album has got me wanting some new prog to listen to and I'm really trying to find intricate musicianship on par with SoA. Any suggestions? LOL
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bill1971 on December 01, 2017, 04:22:45 PM
I just think it's funny after MP and DS's bravado.

Yea, kind of sums up SOA really.  I haven't really seen much bravado lately on twitter, could of just missed it, but if they've stopped it that's a good sign.

The album tanked on release and nobody anywhere is talking about this band other than the few of us in this thread. It would be difficult now for Derek to wheel out his "this band is gonna be HUGE!!" shtick, and claim they're about to overthrow Dream Theater as the "kings of prog metal" (DT who are now mixing their Budokan show as SoA prepare to play an outhouse with a liquor licence). Derek has gone silent not because he's realised his approach was stupid and harmful to his band and offensive to his most likely audience, but because even he realises how silly it would be to declare his new band the "kings of prog metal" as they book venues only accessible by helicopter. In short, the band hasn't been the hit he or MP imagined it would be. Almost nobody gives a shit about them, having heard the album, and his misplaced braggadocio looks even more foolish now than it did before the album release. That's why the cocky 'Del Fuvian' wit has ground to a halt.

I literally LOL'ed.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Fritzinger on December 01, 2017, 04:31:16 PM
I just think it's funny after MP and DS's bravado.

Yea, kind of sums up SOA really.  I haven't really seen much bravado lately on twitter, could of just missed it, but if they've stopped it that's a good sign.

The album tanked on release and nobody anywhere is talking about this band other than the few of us in this thread. It would be difficult now for Derek to wheel out his "this band is gonna be HUGE!!" shtick, and claim they're about to overthrow Dream Theater as the "kings of prog metal" (DT who are now mixing their Budokan show as SoA prepare to play an outhouse with a liquor licence). Derek has gone silent not because he's realised his approach was stupid and harmful to his band and offensive to his most likely audience, but because even he realises how silly it would be to declare his new band the "kings of prog metal" as they book venues only accessible by helicopter. In short, the band hasn't been the hit he or MP imagined it would be. Almost nobody gives a shit about them, having heard the album, and his misplaced braggadocio looks even more foolish now than it did before the album release. That's why the cocky 'Del Fuvian' wit has ground to a halt.

I laughed way harder at the bolded portion than I should have. It just struck me as really funny.

I personally hope their tour is a success, at least enough to get a second album because I suspect it could be infinitely better than this first one.

Can you please specify on the bolded part? Is there a live album in the making? What did I miss??? Or is it just a joke I am not getting?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Schurftkut on December 01, 2017, 04:39:48 PM
the show was shot for japanese tv, so Chycki mixed the audio for that.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Hourglass Prison on December 01, 2017, 04:58:34 PM
Fair enough, but it stopped so that's still good.  Maybe they learned a bit of a lesson about being too cocky and playing some small clubs will be a humbling experience.  Maybe they can use this, not their dislike of DT, to fuel their next album and actually create some music with soul and not just pump something out after a week in the studio.  Assuming there is a next album of course.

Hopefully. They really did fuck the entire promotional thing up right from the start, from the moment MP lashed out on his Forum at people speculating on who was in the band based on that picture that guitar (or keyboard? Don't remember) tech posted (how Mike would love to have that level of enthusiasm for the band now), to the whole misguided "The MP Warriors will love it if we trash DT every day!" PR campaign.


Dave, what thread was that in? The picture thing? I must’ve completely missed that ; I don’t remember.

I was initially excited about this project, because I like FII and have a couple of Derek’s solo albums. So I was looking forward to the two of them working together again, but the music just doesn’t do anything for me personally.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: SjundeInseglet on December 01, 2017, 05:12:22 PM
. I will say that, while some of the guitar work is semi intricate, I can't really call bumblefoot a shredder. He's got some good rhythm and a few nice flourishes here and there, but if you compared him to many other players he'd come up kinda wanting to be honest.

I could not disagree more. If anything, I would say Ron is the most virtuoso musician out of the SoA bunch.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bill1971 on December 02, 2017, 03:52:41 AM
Well, MP just confirmed on Twitter that he offered the Galactic Cowboys the opening slot and they had to decline due to scheduling.
(https://i.imgur.com/LEXIVCp.gif)

I wonder if their schedule would have cleared up if DT offered them the spot.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Madman Shepherd on December 02, 2017, 05:59:22 AM
Well, MP just confirmed on Twitter that he offered the Galactic Cowboys the opening slot and they had to decline due to scheduling.
(https://i.imgur.com/LEXIVCp.gif)

I wonder if their schedule would have cleared up if DT offered them the spot.

 :lol
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: MirrorMask on December 02, 2017, 06:15:47 AM
Well, that was said as a joke, but I guess it's only logical that if certain opportunities arise, you just go for them.

Iced Earth back in 2001 postponed an european tour to open for Judas Priest, which was of course a chance not to be missed. Then sadly 9/11 happened and when the postponed tour once again collided with the european dates, they didn't feel like postponing Europe for the second time and renounced the JP gig.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Fritzinger on December 02, 2017, 06:17:32 AM
. I will say that, while some of the guitar work is semi intricate, I can't really call bumblefoot a shredder. He's got some good rhythm and a few nice flourishes here and there, but if you compared him to many other players he'd come up kinda wanting to be honest.

I could not disagree more. If anything, I would say Ron is the most virtuoso musician out of the SoA bunch.

According so Derek they "all have sick chops" (  :lol ) but I agree Ron might be the most virtuoso of them. BTW I find it so cringeworthy when Derek says they are rockers but all have sick chops.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Madman Shepherd on December 02, 2017, 10:23:25 AM
Well, that was said as a joke, but I guess it's only logical that if certain opportunities arise, you just go for them.

Iced Earth back in 2001 postponed an european tour to open for Judas Priest, which was of course a chance not to be missed. Then sadly 9/11 happened and when the postponed tour once again collided with the european dates, they didn't feel like postponing Europe for the second time and renounced the JP gig.

I already had my tickets when that show was canceled.  I think Priest ended up taking out Anthrax instead. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: contest_sanity on December 02, 2017, 12:58:09 PM
Well, that was said as a joke, but I guess it's only logical that if certain opportunities arise, you just go for them.

Iced Earth back in 2001 postponed an european tour to open for Judas Priest, which was of course a chance not to be missed. Then sadly 9/11 happened and when the postponed tour once again collided with the european dates, they didn't feel like postponing Europe for the second time and renounced the JP gig.

I don't think an SoA opening slot would have been financially viable for Galactic Cowboys, as I'm pretty sure all those guys still have to work regular jobs. I assume it would have to be a HUGE touring slot (and maybe even DT wouldn't be big enough) for them to make enough money to replace their normal livelihoods.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: MirrorMask on December 02, 2017, 03:55:43 PM
Discovered it only now - Sons of Apollo announced already a show for late June here in Milan, they're gonna play the same theatre DT played for The Astonishing. Price is more or less in line with middle-to-big names, 34 euros, give or take what I usually pay for Blind Guardian, Helloween, Avantasia etc...

Keyword here is THEATRE - while it was nice for a change to see DT perform in such a venue for The Astonishing, it's gonna be quite weird to have them play there instead than a club, it's gonna feel more disconneted I guess with people sitting down. The Shattered Fortress also played in a smaller theatre (ironically, it is right next to the bigger sports arena that DT always play), don't know why rock concerts are held in sitting theatres (at least here in Europe, you stand for these kind of concerts!)...
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: noxon on December 02, 2017, 04:10:07 PM
Maybe they know the audience will be predominately middle aged men with bad backs? ;)
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ganpondorodf on December 02, 2017, 04:10:58 PM
Exclusively seated venues for this sort of thing are stupid. One of the reasons I've passed on DT the last few years; I want to be sweaty and gross and being shoved around while I scream along with the tunes. I can do seated for King Crimson, Steven Wilson and the like... But seated venues for metal shows? No.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on December 02, 2017, 05:05:54 PM
Yea, I'm not a fan of the seated venues for metal.  It works on occasion, but usually not as fun as being in the pit.  TSF show was awesome and full of energy in a GA venue and much more fun vibe than any recent DT show.  Speaking of, almost time to see DT in Dallas from my seat.  I scooped up a first row in the last section, I'm sure I will be sitting or asked to sit if I do not (which tonight, compared to the NYC show, I will sit if it comes to that)
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Anguyen92 on December 02, 2017, 05:10:08 PM
Yeah, I can see the issue of a band like them playing a venue like this.  It was fine for DT for their Astonishing tour.  I don't think this venue can allow these seats to be removed.  Surely, there's got to be a venue in Milan, Italy that can fill 2,000+ people and be GA standing primarily? 

(https://www.ambienteeuropa.info/files/articoli/cul1872_HarryPotter_022048170422.122048170422.16_web2048170422.jpg)

Edit: Actually, there is.  Alcatraz looks to be a similar venue in size and looks to be standing.

(https://www.milanonightlife.it/wp-content/gallery/alcatraz/alcatraz_5.jpg)
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on December 02, 2017, 05:20:28 PM
I'm actually a bit surprised they are playing significantly bigger venues in Europe.  I know a lot of metal bands do since it's more popular over there than the states, but makes me feel like this first round in the US is a test run.  Not just for promoters, but for the band and gelling a live performance together before they play bigger shows.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: DarkLord_Lalinc on December 02, 2017, 05:44:59 PM
I just went through 10 solid pages of this thread.

I have a few thoughts (that may or may not have been already shared and maybe lots of you won't care but here it goes lol):

1) I agree 100% with those who say that Sherinian and Portnoy brought this drama upon themselves. They're behaving like a pair of teenagers who don't seem to know their place in their respective music worlds and it's quite a shame considering I grew up almost idolizing these two folks. Big props to the DT camp for staying silent, classy and focused on more important things than coming down to their level for the mud wars. The 'Del Fluvio' boys got all dirty and they didn't even got their ball back. I must say that the internet drama is fairly amusing and I get some entertainment out of it (as I know lots of you do as well haha).

2) Childish social media attacks aside, I think these two folks are overselling their status as former members of DT for their own gain. It makes sense to some point because that's basically the only thing that's going to make their music sell and be heard (even though Sherinian and Portnoy have had tens of projects, their ex-DT status is the only thing keeping them under the radar) but they shouldn't abuse it. It's not intelligent to sell SoA as the new self-proclaimed kings of Prog Metal because they're not and they have a long mountain to climb before they aspire to anything close to what they did with DT (and what DT is doing with Mangini), and a mountain they won't probably have the time to climb because age forgives no one.

3) Musically, this album was cool and I enjoyed it but I don't seem to want to replay it a lot. I think Maximum Opus is the best track and one I find myself wanting to listen to from time to time but that's about it. That's as objective as I can get. It's a nice prog metal record but it's nowhere the level of what bands like Haken are doing. Instrumentally, the vocals are nice but nothing special (I mean, that's a style of timbre and voice I basically hear in every modern prog metal album), Bumblefoot really surprised me with his heavy riffing and Billy sounds like he's sounded in the past 25 years. They all did a solid job, though.

4) Speaking of Haken and younger bands that grew under DT´s wing, I find it very hilarious that they seem to be much more down to earth and much more focused than their elder mentors Sherinian and Portnoy.

I think that´s all I had to say about this. Sorry for the long post!

P.S: The Sherinian in DTF conspiracy theory has been some of the best content in the past few months. DON´T STOP.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: SystematicThought on December 02, 2017, 05:48:07 PM
1) I agree 100% with those who say that Sherinian and Portnoy brought this drama upon themselves. They're behaving like a pair of teenagers who don't seem to know their place in their respective music worlds and it's quite a shame considering I grew up almost idolizing these two folks.
Just don't tell Derek that it sucks seeing two people you idolized causing so much drama. He told me I need to get over myself and that it doesn't affect me and I need to focus on pets and loved ones.  :lol
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: DarkLord_Lalinc on December 02, 2017, 05:51:20 PM
1) I agree 100% with those who say that Sherinian and Portnoy brought this drama upon themselves. They're behaving like a pair of teenagers who don't seem to know their place in their respective music worlds and it's quite a shame considering I grew up almost idolizing these two folks.
Just don't tell Derek that it sucks seeing two people you idolized causing so much drama. He told me I need to get over myself and that it doesn't affect me and I need to focus on pets and loved ones.  :lol
I would love him to tell me that and answer with a: 'Don't worry, I sleep just fine! But thank you for your concern.'  :lol
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ErHaO on December 02, 2017, 06:19:32 PM
Keyword here is THEATRE - while it was nice for a change to see DT perform in such a venue for The Astonishing, it's gonna be quite weird to have them play there instead than a club, it's gonna feel more disconneted I guess with people sitting down. The Shattered Fortress also played in a smaller theatre (ironically, it is right next to the bigger sports arena that DT always play), don't know why rock concerts are held in sitting theatres (at least here in Europe, you stand for these kind of concerts!)...

A theater can be fine for rock/metal/prog (and many other genres). I have seen plenty of shows in them, especially for older artists. Seeing Dream Theater was one of the lesser experiences for several reasons. a) the worst sound I have ever had in a theater with no ability to move physically away from the speakers (loud as hell) and b) zero energy from the band themselves expect for Mangini. When there is no real active crowd, all attention goes to the stage and the artist needs to be engaging beyond playing the music well. I love Dream Theater and I really like the Astonishing, but the way they made the show and how they present themselves didn't really work out well in a theater, despite the cool visuals.

Some of my theater experiences have been kind of like watching an amazing live dvd but in real life, often with better acoustics and sound than in concert halls. And furthermore, the seated nature and structure of many theaters actually can allow for great interactions between the artists and the crowd. For example, in Carre (where I also saw DT) I saw Elvis Costello and he unplugged his gear and did a track fully acoustic for about 1800 people. Also, people usually don't use phones or talk during quiet parts in a theater.

Now I usually go to regular venues where I stand (it is the norm and for some artists I do prefer it), but I think both settings have their advantages.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Spiritus on December 02, 2017, 07:27:23 PM
I'm actually a bit surprised they are playing significantly bigger venues in Europe.  I know a lot of metal bands do since it's more popular over there than the states, but makes me feel like this first round in the US is a test run.  Not just for promoters, but for the band and gelling a live performance together before they play bigger shows.

I can understand that. But really look at that pic of the one venue. It literally is a shed/garage type building in what seems to be some run down industrial area. For the names involved in SoA to be playing what is surely to have some local pimply teens playing the night before and after is a bit embarassing. It must be at least for the del fuvy brothers after all the "we are kings taking over" stuff.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: MirrorMask on December 03, 2017, 03:33:06 AM
Yeah, I can see the issue of a band like them playing a venue like this.  It was fine for DT for their Astonishing tour.  I don't think this venue can allow these seats to be removed.  Surely, there's got to be a venue in Milan, Italy that can fill 2,000+ people and be GA standing primarily? 

Edit: Actually, there is.  Alcatraz looks to be a similar venue in size and looks to be standing.


Alcatraz is by now the main and only venue for big-medium acts we have in Milan. We have a basket arena that DT and Iron Maiden play, said Alcatraz, then a slightly smaller venue 20 KM away from Milan and that's it, the rest are very small clubs, we don't really have that many choices for venues.

Also Mike himself played Alcatraz both with Transatlantic and Flying Colors, I would have figured it would have been the logical choice to go, also because the venue has moving stages so they can either have the main, bigger stage (where I've seen Blind Guardian, Helloween, Alice Cooper, just to give an idea of what kind of crowd fills the venue), or prepare a smaller stage on the side closing off the main stage, I've seen Iced Earth, Kamelot and Shadow Gallery on this smaller stage. Either one of the stages would have been more than fine for Sons of Apollo I guess...
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: KevShmev on December 03, 2017, 07:50:19 AM


2) Childish social media attacks aside, I think these two folks are overselling their status as former members of DT for their own gain. It makes sense to some point because that's basically the only thing that's going to make their music sell and be heard (even though Sherinian and Portnoy have had tens of projects, their ex-DT status is the only thing keeping them under the radar) but they shouldn't abuse it. It's not intelligent to sell SoA as the new self-proclaimed kings of Prog Metal because they're not and they have a long mountain to climb before they aspire to anything close to what they did with DT (and what DT is doing with Mangini), and a mountain they won't probably have the time to climb because age forgives no one.

What's surprising to me is how Portnoy undersells DT on his twitter handle. Looking at it, here is the order in which he lists the bands he has played with:

Sons Of Apollo, The Winery Dogs, Transatlantic, Flying Colors, Metal Allegiance, Neal Morse, Dream Theater, Adrenaline Mob, Avenged Sevenfold, Twisted Sister

Dream Theater is lower than Metal Allegiance?  I get listing Sons of Apollo first, since it is his current most active full-time band (until they go on hiatus in a year), but Dream Theater is billed lower than Winery Dogs?  Talking about underselling the band you were with for 25 years.

Also, that is almost a slap in the face to Neal Morse to list him so low. Below Metal Allegiance.  Really??  Neal Morse (as a solo artist and the Neal Morse Band) is by far the most prolific of the bands he is in with Neal, yet it gets their lowest billing on his own twitter handle.  Nice.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Lethean on December 03, 2017, 08:17:24 AM
Since we're talking about venues - question for the Europeans. People talk about wanting DT to play a general admission show because they prefer to stand.  But why do you have to sit at a seated venue?  Almost all of the venues they play in North America are seated, but people stand in front of their seats. For example Chicago. They've played the same theater on the last three tours. People stood for the self titled tour, sat for TA, and stood again this time. Rush plays arenas, and you have seats, but again people stand.  Do the venues make you sit? Or do people just feel obligated to?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ganpondorodf on December 03, 2017, 08:30:31 AM
Standing completely still in front of your seat is basically the same as being seated, you're just a little higher
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Lethean on December 03, 2017, 08:51:45 AM
I disagree, as someone who experienced both and greatly prefers standing.  You *can* move around a bit, and you have a little more personal space to do it in. Guys in front of me last night were headbanging like crazy. 

I'm not trying to argue that seated venues are better - for me I enjoy both and there are pros and cons for both.  I just don't quite get why people have to sit just because there are seats.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: The Walrus on December 03, 2017, 09:09:28 AM
I remember someone at MPF telling a story about Steven Wilson berating a crowd some years ago for sitting, in a seated venue...
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Destiny Of Chaos on December 03, 2017, 09:12:22 AM


2) Childish social media attacks aside, I think these two folks are overselling their status as former members of DT for their own gain. It makes sense to some point because that's basically the only thing that's going to make their music sell and be heard (even though Sherinian and Portnoy have had tens of projects, their ex-DT status is the only thing keeping them under the radar) but they shouldn't abuse it. It's not intelligent to sell SoA as the new self-proclaimed kings of Prog Metal because they're not and they have a long mountain to climb before they aspire to anything close to what they did with DT (and what DT is doing with Mangini), and a mountain they won't probably have the time to climb because age forgives no one.

What's surprising to me is how Portnoy undersells DT on his twitter handle. Looking at it, here is the order in which he lists the bands he has played with:

Sons Of Apollo, The Winery Dogs, Transatlantic, Flying Colors, Metal Allegiance, Neal Morse, Dream Theater, Adrenaline Mob, Avenged Sevenfold, Twisted Sister

Dream Theater is lower than Metal Allegiance?  I get listing Sons of Apollo first, since it is his current most active full-time band (until they go on hiatus in a year), but Dream Theater is billed lower than Winery Dogs?  Talking about underselling the band you were with for 25 years.

Also, that is almost a slap in the face to Neal Morse to list him so low. Below Metal Allegiance.  Really??  Neal Morse (as a solo artist and the Neal Morse Band) is by far the most prolific of the bands he is in with Neal, yet it gets their lowest billing on his own twitter handle.  Nice.

I don't find it odd to list current projects to former projects at all. See no issue with him listing DT where he did.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Madman Shepherd on December 03, 2017, 09:33:18 AM
I disagree, as someone who experienced both and greatly prefers standing.  You *can* move around a bit, and you have a little more personal space to do it in. Guys in front of me last night were headbanging like crazy. 

I'm not trying to argue that seated venues are better - for me I enjoy both and there are pros and cons for both.  I just don't quite get why people have to sit just because there are seats.

I'll argue seated venues are better. Then you don't have to deal with some drunk asshole pushing his way up front. Standing venues can be just as dead too. On that same token if people are sitting at a seated venue at a metal concert then that's just lame. The last Dream Theater show I was at I was worried the people would sit. My friend said if the people in front of him sat the he would too because he's old. I was sixth row so I said I would stand no matter what. Thankfully everybody stood with the exception of a few of the slower songs for a brief time. The energy was killer throughout.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: MirrorMask on December 03, 2017, 09:43:08 AM
I think there's also some kind of "peer pressure" for lack of a better term. Nobody wants to be the first one to stand and force all the others to do it, they all wait for someone else to go along.

Ever been to a small concert with people standing casually a bit far from the stage, and the band asking to come right next to the speakers? nobody wants to be the first to be in the spotlight and stand right in front of the stage. Same kind of concept.

I think also there's a difference in the kind of venue. The big sports venue where Dream Theater and Iron Maiden play have a general admission parterre, and seated venues on the upper floors; nobody really sits in those kind of concerts. But last time around for whatever reason the parterre was seated too, and I wouldn't have wanted to be the first one to stand right there in the big middle of the venue (I was on the stands anyway).
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Madman Shepherd on December 03, 2017, 10:03:37 AM
I also think the balcony is where people should be if they want to sit and that nobody should stand in the balcony except for the occasional ovation. 

When I saw The Astonishing in Chicago, 2 songs in, everybody sat.  There was a group of about 4-5 people that at various times would try to get people to stand.  They were 3rd or 4th row.  They continued to stand and probably were getting shit from people behind them.  Towards the end of the first set, when A New Beginning really starts to rock, they again stood up and turn around motioning for everybody to also with no success. I was 20 something rows back and not really into the music so I didn't bother to stand.  All around awkward experience.  We ended up leaving early actually.  I guess if you were going to sit at any concert, that would be the one with a solid chunk of soft and slow songs and keyboard interludes. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: MirrorMask on December 03, 2017, 10:12:06 AM
It should have been James to get everyone to stand up, I always imagined that during Astonishing (last song) it would have been cool to get everyone to stand up before the "On the road to revolution" part, and then when the big finale kicks in with "People can you hear us", getting everyone to wave their arms back and forth.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ariich on December 03, 2017, 10:44:29 AM


2) Childish social media attacks aside, I think these two folks are overselling their status as former members of DT for their own gain. It makes sense to some point because that's basically the only thing that's going to make their music sell and be heard (even though Sherinian and Portnoy have had tens of projects, their ex-DT status is the only thing keeping them under the radar) but they shouldn't abuse it. It's not intelligent to sell SoA as the new self-proclaimed kings of Prog Metal because they're not and they have a long mountain to climb before they aspire to anything close to what they did with DT (and what DT is doing with Mangini), and a mountain they won't probably have the time to climb because age forgives no one.

What's surprising to me is how Portnoy undersells DT on his twitter handle. Looking at it, here is the order in which he lists the bands he has played with:

Sons Of Apollo, The Winery Dogs, Transatlantic, Flying Colors, Metal Allegiance, Neal Morse, Dream Theater, Adrenaline Mob, Avenged Sevenfold, Twisted Sister

Dream Theater is lower than Metal Allegiance?  I get listing Sons of Apollo first, since it is his current most active full-time band (until they go on hiatus in a year), but Dream Theater is billed lower than Winery Dogs?  Talking about underselling the band you were with for 25 years.

Also, that is almost a slap in the face to Neal Morse to list him so low. Below Metal Allegiance.  Really??  Neal Morse (as a solo artist and the Neal Morse Band) is by far the most prolific of the bands he is in with Neal, yet it gets their lowest billing on his own twitter handle.  Nice.

I don't find it odd to list current projects to former projects at all. See no issue with him listing DT where he did.
Agreed, all his current bands/projects are listed before his past ones. The point about Neal Morse is interesting though, I wonder if each of the two categories (current & past) is roughly in order of how much input/control he has.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: The Walrus on December 03, 2017, 10:46:27 AM
It should have been James to get everyone to stand up, I always imagined that during Astonishing (last song) it would have been cool to get everyone to stand up before the "On the road to revolution" part, and then when the big finale kicks in with "People can you hear us", getting everyone to wave their arms back and forth.

Actually when I saw them on TA tour in St. Louis, if my memory serves correctly, I believe James did ask for the audience to stand for Our New World and The Astonishing. Just before the song began, though, not at that one part.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Lethean on December 03, 2017, 11:08:11 AM
Your memory is almost correct. It was for Hymn of a Thousand Voices and then through to the end of the show. As far as I know he did it for the whole NA tour.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Madman Shepherd on December 03, 2017, 11:11:01 AM
I left the show by then  :-\
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: The Walrus on December 03, 2017, 11:14:22 AM
Your memory is almost correct. It was for Hymn of a Thousand Voices and then through to the end of the show. As far as I know he did it for the whole NA tour.

I've come to realize Lethean has encyclopedic knowledge of all things DT, so I stand corrected  :)

And shame on you, MS  ;)
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Orbert on December 03, 2017, 11:30:12 AM
I guess I'm glad that I don't go to concerts anymore, because there's no way I could stand for two hours straight.  I'm too damned old.  Doesn't matter if it's metal, classical, or anything in between, the number one reason I'm there is to hear the music.  I'd rather sit and enjoy the music than stand for two hours and hear the exact same thing but distracted by the fact that my back is killing me.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Lethean on December 03, 2017, 11:33:37 AM
Your memory is almost correct. It was for Hymn of a Thousand Voices and then through to the end of the show. As far as I know he did it for the whole NA tour.

I've come to realize Lethean has encyclopedic knowledge of all things DT, so I stand corrected  :)

And shame on you, MS  ;)

No, but I have a good memory of shows I've been to. For other stuff, I do have to look a fair amount up. :).

But yes, shame on you MS. ;) 

I was in the 2nd or 3rd row for that show and didn't notice anyone behind me trying to get people to stand.  I would have preferred people to stand myself and at some TA shows they did. But when they didn't, I just focused on the show (which I loved) and it was still a great experience. Just different.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Lethean on December 03, 2017, 11:35:02 AM
Hey Orbert - for DT you could get a balcony seat. People usually sit up there.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Cool Chris on December 03, 2017, 12:06:48 PM
Hey Orbert - for DT you could get a balcony seat. People usually sit up there.

If he is too old to stand that long his eyesight is probably too shitty to be able to see that far. :D
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Madman Shepherd on December 03, 2017, 01:09:49 PM
I guess I'm glad that I don't go to concerts anymore, because there's no way I could stand for two hours straight.  I'm too damned old.  Doesn't matter if it's metal, classical, or anything in between, the number one reason I'm there is to hear the music.  I'd rather sit and enjoy the music than stand for two hours and hear the exact same thing but distracted by the fact that my back is killing me.

I get what you're saying but I think there's a sweet spot.  For me, just sitting and watching the guys isn't much different from sitting in your living room and watching them on TV.  Not a perfect comparison but also theres not much energy to feed off of when people are politely sitting and occasionally cheering.  On the flip side, I've never understood assholes that want to mosh and crowd surf.  When I've been in those situations, I've spent my time worried I'll get elbowed in the back or hit on the head with someones foot as opposed to getting to watch the band I love thanks to people that apparently don't care to watch the band they may or may not love. 

Standing at a theatre with seats loosens restrictions on your mobility but also limits them so you don't fuck with people around you. 

Then there is the Genesis tribute band The Musical Box which faithfully reproduces old Genesis shows and just like back in the day everyone sits.  It's a weird adjustment.  Last time I saw them I got dead last row seats so that I could stand without anybody getting mad at me (it's a small theatre so I still had a great view).  I'm seeing them again in a few months and I've got  20th row or so, so I won't be standing.  It'll be weird. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: The Walrus on December 03, 2017, 01:21:21 PM
Maybe I'm just getting old quickly but standing at shows is already hard on my neck. When I saw Arch Enemy last month, it was a standing room only type of show in a club, my favorite kind of metal show, but by the time they got on stage my upper back and neck were KILLING me from having to crane to see the stage (I was off to the side for this show), and that's about all I was doing all night. Couldn't get into the music so I wasn't going wild. Maybe it's from going wild at tons of shows in previous years, maybe I'm just getting old, but that was rough.

Still, at the end of the night, I'd rather be in that type of crowd than sitting. Not that there's anything wrong with it (I enjoyed being able to take off my coat and just leave it in the seat without having to pay for coat check or strap it around my waist), but I enjoy being able to move and feel the energy of the crowd, since I still sweat in a seated show anyway :)
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bill1971 on December 03, 2017, 02:06:08 PM
. I will say that, while some of the guitar work is semi intricate, I can't really call bumblefoot a shredder. He's got some good rhythm and a few nice flourishes here and there, but if you compared him to many other players he'd come up kinda wanting to be honest.

I could not disagree more. If anything, I would say Ron is the most virtuoso musician out of the SoA bunch.

According so Derek they "all have sick chops" (  :lol ) but I agree Ron might be the most virtuoso of them. BTW I find it so cringeworthy when Derek says they are rockers but all have sick chops.

Yes Ron is quite amazing. Very humble too.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Adami on December 03, 2017, 02:11:40 PM
Humblefoot?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Spiritus on December 03, 2017, 02:22:39 PM
I remember someone at MPF telling a story about Steven Wilson berating a crowd some years ago for sitting, in a seated venue...
He is not a fan of seated venues. I remember him complaining about it at a Porcupine Tree show I saw in Toronto years back.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ProfessorPeart on December 03, 2017, 02:37:55 PM
10 years ago I was in an accident that shattered my left femur and my right ankle. Yes, that means that I had to learn how to walk again. Standing for even 10 minutes is no picnic. I will sit any chance that I can. I refuse to get handicap seating because I feel that would be taking away from someone in more need than I. I skip certain shows if I know I can't sit.

I stood in April for Katatonia and I will be standing in Feb for Machine Head. I'm a wreck and in immense pain after shows like that. Just walking after the show is handled by pure adrenaline and the thought that I can sit soon.

I'm only 41 too.

Give me a seated venue every day.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: TAC on December 03, 2017, 03:10:10 PM
I remember someone at MPF telling a story about Steven Wilson berating a crowd some years ago for sitting, in a seated venue...
He is not a fan of seated venues. I remember him complaining about it at a Porcupine Tree show I saw in Toronto years back.

Fuck him!
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Sycsa on December 03, 2017, 03:17:57 PM
. I will say that, while some of the guitar work is semi intricate, I can't really call bumblefoot a shredder. He's got some good rhythm and a few nice flourishes here and there, but if you compared him to many other players he'd come up kinda wanting to be honest.

I could not disagree more. If anything, I would say Ron is the most virtuoso musician out of the SoA bunch.

According so Derek they "all have sick chops" (  :lol ) but I agree Ron might be the most virtuoso of them. BTW I find it so cringeworthy when Derek says they are rockers but all have sick chops.
I used to think he was a cool guy (heck, the keyboard player in any given band was usually “my guy”), but at this point, I can’t help but cringe at anything that Derek says or does, like this fake “tough guy” pose and “angry” expression on a recent SoA poster. Ugh. Silly.
(https://scontent.fotp1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/24131474_241844749682665_9157831356764916269_n.jpg?oh=269e009eff8f436fbbdf7709b23f4956&oe=5ACA4888)

You can almost tell that the Del Fuvio bros take it super-duper seriously, while the rest don’t really give a shit.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: TAC on December 03, 2017, 03:42:34 PM
Love the Sheehan "I'm not really with these guys" look.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Adami on December 03, 2017, 03:48:44 PM
I assumed it was because, due to his age, he couldn't physically keep up with the other guys.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: SystematicThought on December 03, 2017, 04:25:58 PM
I imagine that’ll be Derek and MP’s reaction when they show up to the Music Factory in Michigan.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Orbert on December 03, 2017, 05:02:05 PM
Maybe it's a generational thing, or maybe just the way it worked out, but for concerts, I've been to far more seated venues than general admission.  I completely understand people wanting to stand, dance, move around, enjoy the music in their own way if the place allows for it; it's just not my thing.  But I've never been to a metal show; I think the heaviest I've ever gone was Aerosmith back in the 80's.  That was general admission, come to think of it.  But Genesis, ELP, Rush, Bowie were all assigned seating in auditoriums and arenas.  To me, that's the preferred norm.  I'm there for the show itself.  I want to hear them play, and dig it in real time.  The connection with the band.  The crowd and the whole "event" and it's associated energy is cool, but I can take it or leave it.

Hey Orbert - for DT you could get a balcony seat. People usually sit up there.

That's a good idea!  There are still bands that come around and once in a while I'll think about catching them.  I have to remember to look into the venue and see what the ticket options are.

Sure, I'd always rather be closer and see them better, but again, I'm there to listen.  Besides, everyone has huge screens with stuff on them to watch, including the band, so that's fine.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ganpondorodf on December 03, 2017, 05:12:49 PM
I hate big shows with the screens most of all. If I'm gonna sit near the back of an arena watching the band on a screen, why wouldn't I save $60 and watch videos of them on youtube?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ReaperKK on December 03, 2017, 05:47:02 PM
I remember someone at MPF telling a story about Steven Wilson berating a crowd some years ago for sitting, in a seated venue...
He is not a fan of seated venues. I remember him complaining about it at a Porcupine Tree show I saw in Toronto years back.

To be fair I've seen a few SW shows and none of them were seated, instead everyone stood there like statues :lol
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Orbert on December 03, 2017, 06:09:03 PM
I hate big shows with the screens most of all. If I'm gonna sit near the back of an arena watching the band on a screen, why wouldn't I save $60 and watch videos of them on youtube?

Because there is still the element of being there and experiencing the music in real time.  I love watching a good concert vid, I even prefer it to subjecting myself to the cost of concert tickets and everything that comes with it, but video still cannot replace the experience of being there live.  Every live performance is unique.  Being there is still important.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: SystematicThought on December 03, 2017, 06:09:25 PM
You would think he would like seated venues. That way people are more focused on the music and presentation.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: KevShmev on December 03, 2017, 06:12:57 PM
I wouldn't take the Steven Wilson stuff like he was too serious about it. I remember seeing a video where he did it in a cheeky, British way (what we Americans would call being a smart ass).  He is not the type to legitimately bitch about something like that when presenting a show.

As for seated vs. sitting, I always prefer to have seats, but will always pick my spots when I can stand. Trust me, you youngans, when you hit your 40s, you will not be wanting to go to a concert to stand the entire time and never having the option of sitting. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Orbert on December 03, 2017, 07:29:41 PM
Wisdom
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Ninjabait on December 03, 2017, 08:09:15 PM
I've only ever really been to sitting concerts, honestly. I think I've only been to three standing concerts, and both of them had some seats. Two were Christian Rock concerts/conferences/whatever which were at churches with seats (I sat for a good portion of them and even when I was standing I hardly danced), and the other was an indie rock concert at a club at my school I went to a few weeks ago (I sat the entire time I was inside...which was only like 15min of the concert because it was free for students so it took forever to get inside). To be fair though, I mainly go to classical, jazz, and musical theater/opera concerts. Those are sitting only, so it's what I'm used to and prefer greatly. I never know what to do with myself when standing at a concert, and would rather just focus on the music. If I get really get into the groove of the music (usually happens at jazz concerts if the rhythm section is any good), I can just bob my head or tap my foot/fingers/hands along with the beat.

I also used to work at a Theater/Performing Arts Center for a couple of years and most of the concerts we had there were sitting only, regardless of the genre. Beatles tribute groups, crooners, folk groups, dance shows, jazz groups, they all were mainly sat through. The only one I can remember that people actually stood up and danced for was the Motown tribute group we had one year. To be fair though, most of our clientele was a bit on the older side because this is Florida and our number one import is old people, so it's a bit hard for them to dance without hurting something.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: SwedishGoose on December 03, 2017, 10:31:53 PM
As for seated vs. sitting, I always prefer to have seats, but will always pick my spots when I can stand. Trust me, you youngans, when you hit your 40s, you will not be wanting to go to a concert to stand the entire time and never having the option of sitting.

I'm closing in on 50 and I still prefer standing over seated. I tend to want to be close to the stage and rock out the whole time, dancing, jumping, clapping hands, singing along et cetera...
I am there to enjoy the music and to give some  energy back to the artists.... seated is fine for the occasional show, The Astonishing was fine for that but I could not imagine sitting at a Gojira concert for instance.

Edit: Just realised that all shows that I have booked for next year so far are seated.... how come? Steven Wilson, Kate Bush tribute,  Peter Hammill, King Crimson and Roger Waters.... all seated and with the exception of Steven Wilson quite close to the stage.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: efx on December 04, 2017, 01:23:52 AM
My take on seated vs standing is pretty simple. You want to stand, by a floor ticket. You want to sit, buy a seat. Sometimes you don't have a choice but stand like in smaller clubs but if I want to sit for various reasons I will expect to be able to do so without some jackass standing up in front of me. I've noticed some of the larger venues here are taking a proactive stance towards keeping people from blocking others views in the seated section and that's something I can and do appreciate.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: rumborak on December 04, 2017, 08:20:13 AM
The problem is more the opposite. Most venues here at least in Boston have no GA area, so you are forcefully wedged into the seats.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Madman Shepherd on December 04, 2017, 10:18:23 PM
So, too early to start guessing the setlist? I mean they confirmed they will be playing pretty much the whole album. Now just a question of what else will fill in the gaps. I'm guessing Line in the Sand...and I honestly have no other guesses.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Adami on December 04, 2017, 10:25:08 PM
Hell's Kitchen seems like an obvious choice.

Probably a few classic covers too.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: rumborak on December 05, 2017, 01:05:59 AM
It's a shame really. Despite me not actually not liking the album that much, I would have watched them live. But the next concert is essentially 5 states away, not going to happen.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: MirrorMask on December 05, 2017, 01:16:58 AM
So, too early to start guessing the setlist? I mean they confirmed they will be playing pretty much the whole album. Now just a question of what else will fill in the gaps. I'm guessing Line in the Sand...and I honestly have no other guesses.

My guess:
All the album songs with extended jams here and there (Derek will probably have a solo spot for example with a 5 minutes extension of Figaro's Whore)
Lines in the Sand, maybe Hell's Kitchen, and a couple of relatively "obscure" cover songs
Encore of classic songs, maybe having Bumblefoot and JSS there justifies them to do some GnR or Malmsteen
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Fritzinger on December 05, 2017, 01:38:44 AM
So, too early to start guessing the setlist? I mean they confirmed they will be playing pretty much the whole album. Now just a question of what else will fill in the gaps. I'm guessing Line in the Sand...and I honestly have no other guesses.

My guess:
All the album songs with extended jams here and there (Derek will probably have a solo spot for example with a 5 minutes extension of Figaro's Whore)
Lines in the Sand, maybe Hell's Kitchen, and a couple of relatively "obscure" cover songs
Encore of classic songs, maybe having Bumblefoot and JSS there justifies them to do some GnR or Malmsteen

I am so incredibly unexcited for that. Usually I love when bands cover some stuff, but that's usually because I go to watch bands that do some classic prog stuff and not 80s-heavy metal. But Portnoy and the boys playing GnR and Malmsteen? I hope not :D Especially when the respective original bands are still existent and on tour.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: The Silent Cody on December 05, 2017, 02:15:27 AM
So, Sons Of Apollo just announced a show in Poland on 18th August in Warsaw. I'll be there because of work for sure so, I will probably go there to see them. I think that You could be prepared for more european dates...
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ganpondorodf on December 05, 2017, 05:00:04 AM
If they were playing directly outside I'd only go to see them if they paid me. And more than half of my apartment was on fire
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: erwinrafael on December 05, 2017, 05:32:32 AM
Maybe JSS can headline to feature his solo album.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: MirrorMask on December 05, 2017, 05:46:21 AM
So, Sons Of Apollo just announced a show in Poland on 18th August in Warsaw. I'll be there because of work for sure so, I will probably go there to see them. I think that You could be prepared for more european dates...

The italian date is in late June. Will they actually spend a month and a half at least in Europe or will go back and forth from the USA? seems unlikely they'd stay over that long but doing a single trans-oceanic flight maybe would be more cost effective...
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: SwedishGoose on December 05, 2017, 07:04:14 AM
There is also Be Prog my Friend in Barcelona on the 29th and 30th of June.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on December 05, 2017, 07:35:56 AM
So, Sons Of Apollo just announced a show in Poland on 18th August in Warsaw. I'll be there because of work for sure so, I will probably go there to see them. I think that You could be prepared for more european dates...

The italian date is in late June. Will they actually spend a month and a half at least in Europe or will go back and forth from the USA? seems unlikely they'd stay over that long but doing a single trans-oceanic flight maybe would be more cost effective...

February US tour, Summer Europe, I'd guess US again in the fall and sprinkle some SA or Asia dates in the spring or fall as well?  For a year dedicated to touring, they got to start popping out more dates especially with the summer festivals already being announced.  The US summer festival line ups are coming out around now too. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Madman Shepherd on December 05, 2017, 07:40:53 AM
So, too early to start guessing the setlist? I mean they confirmed they will be playing pretty much the whole album. Now just a question of what else will fill in the gaps. I'm guessing Line in the Sand...and I honestly have no other guesses.

My guess:
All the album songs with extended jams here and there (Derek will probably have a solo spot for example with a 5 minutes extension of Figaro's Whore)
Lines in the Sand, maybe Hell's Kitchen, and a couple of relatively "obscure" cover songs
Encore of classic songs, maybe having Bumblefoot and JSS there justifies them to do some GnR or Malmsteen

I am so incredibly unexcited for that. Usually I love when bands cover some stuff, but that's usually because I go to watch bands that do some classic prog stuff and not 80s-heavy metal. But Portnoy and the boys playing GnR and Malmsteen? I hope not :D Especially when the respective original bands are still existent and on tour.

I seriously doubt they play GNR. Mike has never seemed to care for them.

I also thought they might play Hell's Kitchen but with Mike being so weird about DT playing songs around the same time I wonder if he would.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: noxon on December 05, 2017, 07:44:04 AM
Summer tour in europe (apart from festival dates) is really strange imo. July and august are horrible months for touring in europe. To the point of where venues here are more or less closed during those months...
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on December 05, 2017, 07:51:04 AM
Summer tour in europe (apart from festival dates) is really strange imo. July and august are horrible months for touring in europe. To the point of where venues here are more or less closed during those months...

Im guessing its really going to be a festival tour with solo dates in between to fill the gaps.  Sort of like how DT and others like Iron Maiden do it, but obviously on a smaller scale.  Granted, I know nothing about club concerts in Europe during the summer.  Just my guess.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bill1971 on December 05, 2017, 08:27:26 AM
So, too early to start guessing the setlist? I mean they confirmed they will be playing pretty much the whole album. Now just a question of what else will fill in the gaps. I'm guessing Line in the Sand...and I honestly have no other guesses.

My guess:
All the album songs with extended jams here and there (Derek will probably have a solo spot for example with a 5 minutes extension of Figaro's Whore)
Lines in the Sand, maybe Hell's Kitchen, and a couple of relatively "obscure" cover songs
Encore of classic songs, maybe having Bumblefoot and JSS there justifies them to do some GnR or Malmsteen

I am so incredibly unexcited for that. Usually I love when bands cover some stuff, but that's usually because I go to watch bands that do some classic prog stuff and not 80s-heavy metal. But Portnoy and the boys playing GnR and Malmsteen? I hope not :D Especially when the respective original bands are still existent and on tour.

I seriously doubt they play GNR. Mike has never seemed to care for them.

I also thought they might play Hell's Kitchen but with Mike being so weird about DT playing songs around the same time I wonder if he would.

Yes, that reminds me of another classic MP social media moment.


“November Rain is an all-time classic song…but why on Earth did Matt Sorum play the SAME EXACT fill every 4 bars? (23 times to be exact!),” tweeted Portnoy on Aug 4.
A couple of days later, Sorum responded. “@MikePortnoy that fill was Axls idea As a musical phrase that carried on through the trilogy , ‘Don’t Cry’ and ‘Estranged.’ Those albums UYI 1 n 2 Have sold 20 million combined.”
Blabbermouth points out that Sorum defended the 'November Rain' drumming during a 2009 interview with Music Radar. They got the idea from Elton John's song ‘Don’t Let the Sun Go Down on Me.’
In another tweet, Sorum continued the conversation. "@MikePortnoy remember kids, drumming isn't all about fancy drum fills and splash cymbals; ask Charlie Watts, Ringo and Phil Rudd."
Instead of erupting into a Twitter war, things settled down with Portnoy's response. "@mattsorum Agree 1000%!! Ringo is one of my greatest heroes!! No disrespect meant bro...just making an observation of that song. Peace! : )"
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: The Silent Cody on December 05, 2017, 09:43:54 AM
Summer tour in europe (apart from festival dates) is really strange imo. July and august are horrible months for touring in europe. To the point of where venues here are more or less closed during those months...

Im guessing its really going to be a festival tour with solo dates in between to fill the gaps.  Sort of like how DT and others like Iron Maiden do it, but obviously on a smaller scale.  Granted, I know nothing about club concerts in Europe during the summer.  Just my guess.
Yep, You know nothing because there is no gigs in clubs mostly then ;) SON  Polish gig is also at Prog something festival, with Insahn and probably Riverside as always.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Madman Shepherd on December 05, 2017, 10:26:10 AM
Summer tour in europe (apart from festival dates) is really strange imo. July and august are horrible months for touring in europe. To the point of where venues here are more or less closed during those months...

You damn Europeans and your weeks and weeks of vacation. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Schurftkut on December 05, 2017, 05:17:07 PM
i like how this thread turned into talking about having seats in a venue and their demographic having back aches from standing too long while attending their rock pedigree shows :-)
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ProfessorPeart on December 05, 2017, 05:25:20 PM
i like how this thread turned into talking about having seats in a venue and their demographic having back aches from standing too long while attending their rock pedigree shows :-)

Get off my lawn!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Anguyen92 on December 05, 2017, 06:08:22 PM
i like how this thread turned into talking about having seats in a venue and their demographic having back aches from standing too long while attending their rock pedigree shows :-)

Don't you mean their octopus pedigree shows?    :D
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: SwedishGoose on December 06, 2017, 11:08:01 AM
22nd of September they will play at the Plovdiv Amphitheater with the Plovdiv Orchestra. Filming the event for DVD release...

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=1998764900141142&id=116713035013014
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: SystematicThought on December 06, 2017, 11:14:38 AM
I wonder how the Orchestra is gonna figure in here. Also, aren't orchestras cheesy? Hasn't a certain CheeseWiz band used orchestras before?

Seems like it could be a cool thing though. That Romeo Delight cover they did when they debuted the band was good, so they do good covers and made it their own. Cool looking venue too
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: The Walrus on December 06, 2017, 11:20:13 AM
What exactly is the orchestra going to do other than emphasize the beginning of Labyrinth (for their original stuff, not the cover set)? Are they really going to arrange songs like Coming Home and Alive? This is hilarious of them to ape something Dream Theater and a thousand other bands have already done.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Anguyen92 on December 06, 2017, 11:22:18 AM
Not that I have anything against orchestras in general (my favorite band played with an orchestra last October and most people claimed it was the best show that they have ever delivered), but doesn't SOA playing with an orchestra goes against being anti-cheesey and wanting to be a macho-like (balls to the walls) band?  Does an orchestra goes against that mentality?

That venue does look cool and looks like it can fit up to a lot of people in that building.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on December 06, 2017, 11:23:14 AM
22nd of September they will play at the Plovdiv Amphitheater with the Plovdiv Orchestra. Filming the event for DVD release...

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=1998764900141142&id=116713035013014

Interesting.  Devin Townsend did the same thing this past September and on the exact same date (The 22nd of September, I know this cause it's also my birthday).  Same venue, same date, same orchestra, also for video release. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bill1971 on December 06, 2017, 11:28:08 AM
The second set will be a special covers set by request. I guess there will be a way to vote online of what they should play. I have to hand it to MP he  tries to keep things interesting.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ? on December 06, 2017, 11:28:23 AM
Quote
Sons Of Apollo will be playing 2 Sets with an Orchestra...the 2nd set will be a very special COVERS SET - By Request!! (Details coming soon on how to vote)
inb4 everyone requests the entire The Astonishing :neverusethis:
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bill1971 on December 06, 2017, 11:30:16 AM
Not that I have anything against orchestras in general (my favorite band played with an orchestra last October and most people claimed it was the best show that they have ever delivered), but doesn't SOA playing with an orchestra goes against being anti-cheesey and wanting to be a macho-like (balls to the walls) band?  Does an orchestra goes against that mentality?

That venue does look cool and looks like it can fit up to a lot of people in that building.

The orchestra will all wear leather jackets and jeans and frown the entire time.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bosk1 on December 06, 2017, 11:31:12 AM
Quote
Sons Of Apollo will be playing 2 Sets with an Orchestra...the 2nd set will be a very special COVERS SET - By Request!! (Details coming soon on how to vote)
inb4 everyone requests the entire The Astonishing :neverusethis:
:rollin  That would be hilarious.  Well, given that it is going to be a demand sort of thing, I think it is safe to say there will be some high fan demand for GnR and Journey.  I'm interested to see what they play.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on December 06, 2017, 11:32:17 AM
22nd of September they will play at the Plovdiv Amphitheater with the Plovdiv Orchestra. Filming the event for DVD release...

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=1998764900141142&id=116713035013014

Interesting.  Devin Townsend did the same thing this past September and on the exact same date (The 22nd of September, I know this cause it's also my birthday).  Same venue, same date, same orchestra, also for video release.

The second set will be a special covers set by request. I guess there will be a way to vote online of what they should play. I have to hand it to MP he  tries to keep things interesting.

LOL Devin also has a by request set.  Pretty funny how it's literally the exact same thing.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: The Walrus on December 06, 2017, 11:37:03 AM
Good luck getting any GnR on a filmed release by any band that isn't GnR.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ? on December 06, 2017, 11:44:34 AM
Quote
Sons Of Apollo will be playing 2 Sets with an Orchestra...the 2nd set will be a very special COVERS SET - By Request!! (Details coming soon on how to vote)
inb4 everyone requests the entire The Astonishing :neverusethis:
:rollin  That would be hilarious.  Well, given that it is going to be a demand sort of thing, I think it is safe to say there will be some high fan demand for GnR and Journey.  I'm interested to see what they play.
Yeah, seriously speaking I think they'll put up a selection of songs to choose from, which probably will include something from their past bands.

Btw I found a news story from another source, which claims the orchestra will only join them for the cover set: https://www.radiotangra.com/en/news/read/30754.html
Quote
The new American supergroup featuring members of DREAM THEATER, MR. BIG, GUNS ‘N ROSES, and JOURNEY will present live the songs from its sensational debut album 'Psychotic Symphony' followed by a 'By Request Covers Set' where the band will be joined by the renowned Plovdiv Philharmonic Orchestra founded nearly 70 years ago and made up of over 100 highly qualified musicians.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ganpondorodf on December 06, 2017, 11:45:46 AM
Very weird
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ReaperKK on December 06, 2017, 11:59:14 AM
This is very weird. Usually when bands do this it’s after an already established career with at least a few albums behind them.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ProfessorPeart on December 06, 2017, 12:07:01 PM
Katatonia did The Great Cold Distance there in its entirety. I believe Opeth also performed with the orchestra there as well. Seems to be a go-to for metal bands. I really enjoyed the Katatonia recording.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on December 06, 2017, 12:10:13 PM
Katatonia did The Great Cold Distance there in its entirety. I believe Opeth also performed with the orchestra there as well. Seems to be a go-to for metal bands. I really enjoyed the Katatonia recording.

My opinion, it's a low budget spot that has a cool setting and an easily accessible orchestra that will work with you.  I can't find any other reason for bands to pull such exact similar live releases.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: PROGdrummer on December 06, 2017, 12:27:39 PM
What exactly is the orchestra going to do other than emphasize the beginning of Labyrinth (for their original stuff, not the cover set)? Are they really going to arrange songs like Coming Home and Alive? This is hilarious of them to ape something Dream Theater and a thousand other bands have already done.

Um...

God of The Sun and Divine Addiction? And it wouldn't be hard (or that strange) to arrange pretty much any of the other keyboard parts on the album for orchestra.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: SwedishGoose on December 06, 2017, 12:37:23 PM
Opeth recorded the show they did there but did not release it as a DVD or CD.

Some songs were released on the Sorceress special edition the rest with the orhestra were released on the previous edition of Prog Magazine.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: The Walrus on December 06, 2017, 12:38:44 PM
What exactly is the orchestra going to do other than emphasize the beginning of Labyrinth (for their original stuff, not the cover set)? Are they really going to arrange songs like Coming Home and Alive? This is hilarious of them to ape something Dream Theater and a thousand other bands have already done.

Um...

God of The Sun and Divine Addiction? And it wouldn't be hard (or that strange) to arrange pretty much any of the other keyboard parts on the album for orchestra.

And the other 6?:lol
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: SystematicThought on December 06, 2017, 12:41:01 PM
This is very weird. Usually when bands do this it’s after an already established career with at least a few albums behind them.
That's what seems weird to me. To do this at this stage of Sons of Apollo almost to me makes it seem like a nostalgia act, or a cover band with big names in it that also happens to have an album that didn't chart in the US (except the Heatseakers Chart, still sold less than 5000 copies). It just seems odd, although it's guaranteed to sell on MP's name alone
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: w_marano on December 06, 2017, 12:43:28 PM
Katatonia did The Great Cold Distance there in its entirety. I believe Opeth also performed with the orchestra there as well. Seems to be a go-to for metal bands. I really enjoyed the Katatonia recording.

Paradise Lost also did that with the same orquestra and released the concert two years ago.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Fritzinger on December 06, 2017, 01:03:00 PM
I could really imagine they expand the intro of Labyrinth to be the opener. A 3 minute orchestra intro based on the song intro; while that's playing, the band comes on stage and perform the song with the orchestra. That'd be pretty cool. I could also see something like this being the intro of all the other concerts (with the intro of course coming from the PA).
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Anxiety35 on December 06, 2017, 01:08:40 PM
What would you want them to play for covers?

Here's some I'd like to see them cover:

Shy Boy (David Lee Roth)
Lines In The Sand (DT)
Perfect Strangers (Deep Purple)
Unchained (Van Halen)
In The Evening (Led Zeppelin)


Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ganpondorodf on December 06, 2017, 01:23:33 PM
Isn't Perfect Strangers already on the album?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Stadler on December 06, 2017, 01:32:27 PM
Not that I have anything against orchestras in general (my favorite band played with an orchestra last October and most people claimed it was the best show that they have ever delivered), but doesn't SOA playing with an orchestra goes against being anti-cheesey and wanting to be a macho-like (balls to the walls) band?  Does an orchestra goes against that mentality?

That venue does look cool and looks like it can fit up to a lot of people in that building.

The orchestra will all wear leather jackets and jeans and frown the entire time.

HAHAHA, that got an honest to god laugh out loud.  :)  Nice. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Stadler on December 06, 2017, 01:36:39 PM
Quote
Sons Of Apollo will be playing 2 Sets with an Orchestra...the 2nd set will be a very special COVERS SET - By Request!! (Details coming soon on how to vote)
inb4 everyone requests the entire The Astonishing :neverusethis:
:rollin  That would be hilarious.  Well, given that it is going to be a demand sort of thing, I think it is safe to say there will be some high fan demand for GnR and Journey.  I'm interested to see what they play.
Yeah, seriously speaking I think they'll put up a selection of songs to choose from, which probably will include something from their past bands.

Btw I found a news story from another source, which claims the orchestra will only join them for the cover set: https://www.radiotangra.com/en/news/read/30754.html
Quote
The new American supergroup featuring members of DREAM THEATER, MR. BIG, GUNS ‘N ROSES, and JOURNEY will present live the songs from its sensational debut album 'Psychotic Symphony' followed by a 'By Request Covers Set' where the band will be joined by the renowned Plovdiv Philharmonic Orchestra founded nearly 70 years ago and made up of over 100 highly qualified musicians.

I'm glad they told me the album was "sensational".   I haven't gotten many "sensations" from the album itself since I listened to it the second, and last, time.

Look, I'm all for the epic over the topness of an orchestra; but for only the covers?   Sounds like a lot of hype that has nothing to do with the band itself, or it's original music. 

I have to say, I'm no marketing wizard*, but this is confusing. 

*I say humbly, since I have an MBA from a top ten school and know enough about marketing to know you don't confuse your audience.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on December 06, 2017, 01:49:53 PM
I'm a sucker for concerts like this, so I'd buy it, but honestly, it feels more like a money grab than a special event since how special can an event be for a band with one album that had a lukewarm reaction and hasn't even played a gig yet?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: TAC on December 06, 2017, 01:55:02 PM
I'm not really interested in hearing their music. Not sure why I'd need to hear them play someone else's. And muck it up with an orchestra to boot.
Billy Sheehan really has nothing better to do than this?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: SwedishGoose on December 06, 2017, 01:58:23 PM
I'm a sucker for concerts like this, so I'd buy it, but honestly, it feels more like a money grab than a special event since how special can an event be for a band with one album that had a lukewarm reaction and hasn't even played a gig yet?

It will be special because the director will arrange the songs to try to make up for the lack of time spent in writing them.... writing times of the songs will at least double  ;)
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: PetFish on December 06, 2017, 02:03:23 PM
"... made up of over 100 highly qualified musicians."

Yeah, that's how I'd want to be described, "highly qualified".  It's like when you're trying to compliment someone but don't really have anything so you say that they're "punctual".
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: RodrigoAltaf on December 06, 2017, 02:33:45 PM
"... made up of over 100 highly qualified musicians."

Yeah, that's how I'd want to be described, "highly qualified".  It's like when you're trying to compliment someone but don't really have anything so you say that they're "punctual".

Some people find fault in everything... I think it's a great idea, and it'll keep things interesting. The level of negativity in this thread, and members making a point of posting here to criticize EVERY new info on this band, is just impressive. I wish I had half the free time you have...
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: The Walrus on December 06, 2017, 02:49:58 PM
Well, because it's funny. DT did the exact same thing (double set with an orchestra in the second half, and filmed). And for all of Derek's talk about 'balls and rock' and 'no cheese,' now he's playing with an orchestra in an ancient ampitheatre. Barely one year after their very first live show. And I'm sorry, but it's in the middle of Bulgaria.  I guess you gotta start taking over the world somewhere. :lol

(to be fair, I LOVE rock bands playing with orchestras. love it. but I would've never expected the bawlz n chunk Sons of Apollo to do it)
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Sycsa on December 06, 2017, 03:02:46 PM
Isn't Perfect Strangers already on the album?
Indeed. :lol
I hope they won’t cover any Purple, they already did Burn, and, frankly, I am yet to hear a good DP cover from anyone (Dream Theater’s Made in Japan cover is ostentatiously bad). Purple has a loose, cool, improvisational, bluesy feel, which these technical prog guys cannot nail to save their lives.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Madman Shepherd on December 06, 2017, 03:19:16 PM
Covers? Man, Portnoy sure does love his covers. In fact at this point it almost seems like he likes doing covers more than making original music. Literally every single band he has been in has played a plethora of covers. It's getting a bit old. I remember when bands pulled out covers as a special treat.

I think Richie Kotzen got kind of annoyed with it too. One of the first things they did was record a bunch of covers and then Mike publicly complained the Ritchie never finished the vocals or guitar or something.

 I'm sure Richie liked being called out like that.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: pcs90 on December 06, 2017, 03:19:57 PM
Some people find fault in everything... I think it's a great idea, and it'll keep things interesting. The level of negativity in this thread, and members making a point of posting here to criticize EVERY new info on this band, is just impressive. I wish I had half the free time you have...
The members unconditionally supporting and defending everything the band does are quite impressive too, I must say. ;)

It's not that playing with an orchestra is a bad thing (well, unless the arrangements were bad.) Nor is playing small venues -- in many cases this makes for a more personal show. A lot of the negativity is shown because of the context of things said by its members.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: devieira73 on December 06, 2017, 03:24:41 PM
https://www.radiotangra.com/en/news/read/30754.html
Quote
The new American supergroup featuring members of DREAM THEATER, MR. BIG, GUNS ‘N ROSES, and JOURNEY will present live the songs from its sensational debut album 'Psychotic Symphony' followed by a 'By Request Covers Set' where the band will be joined by the renowned Plovdiv Philharmonic Orchestra founded nearly 70 years ago and made up of over 100 highly qualified musicians

MP said himself in Facebook the entire show will be with the orchestra, so I guess it’s the correct information.
While DT didn’t make a DVD from a single TA show, MP is still doing one of the things he’s always did best when he was in DT...
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: devieira73 on December 06, 2017, 03:49:50 PM
Some people find fault in everything... I think it's a great idea, and it'll keep things interesting. The level of negativity in this thread, and members making a point of posting here to criticize EVERY new info on this band, is just impressive. I wish I had half the free time you have...
The members unconditionally supporting and defending everything the band does are quite impressive too, I must say. ;)

It's not that playing with an orchestra is a bad thing (well, unless the arrangements were bad.) Nor is playing small venues -- in many cases this makes for a more personal show. A lot of the negativity is shown because of the context of things said by its members.

Yes, it’s true. But also is quite impressive when a lot of this negativity is shown because ... they  announced a DVD release  ::)
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: wolven74 on December 06, 2017, 04:44:49 PM
. I will say that, while some of the guitar work is semi intricate, I can't really call bumblefoot a shredder. He's got some good rhythm and a few nice flourishes here and there, but if you compared him to many other players he'd come up kinda wanting to be honest.

I could not disagree more. If anything, I would say Ron is the most virtuoso musician out of the SoA bunch.

See, I would say that Billy Sheehan and MP are the best players in the band. But, keep in mind this is the first album I've heard Ron Thal play on. He may be a true virtuoso, but aside from a few flourishes, I don't hear it here.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Destiny Of Chaos on December 06, 2017, 04:49:23 PM
https://www.radiotangra.com/en/news/read/30754.html
Quote
The new American supergroup featuring members of DREAM THEATER, MR. BIG, GUNS ‘N ROSES, and JOURNEY will present live the songs from its sensational debut album 'Psychotic Symphony' followed by a 'By Request Covers Set' where the band will be joined by the renowned Plovdiv Philharmonic Orchestra founded nearly 70 years ago and made up of over 100 highly qualified musicians

MP said himself in Facebook the entire show will be with the orchestra, so I guess it’s the correct information.
While DT didn’t make a DVD from a single TA show, MP is still doing one of the things he’s always did best when he was in DT...

Absolutely! I miss DT going the extra mile and it's clear who was always behind them doing so.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ErHaO on December 06, 2017, 05:02:31 PM
That show sounds fucking awesome. Too bad it isn't around the corner, I'd gladly watch these guys and an orchestra play metal/rock classics and some of their own solid songs.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on December 06, 2017, 05:02:55 PM
https://www.radiotangra.com/en/news/read/30754.html
Quote
The new American supergroup featuring members of DREAM THEATER, MR. BIG, GUNS ‘N ROSES, and JOURNEY will present live the songs from its sensational debut album 'Psychotic Symphony' followed by a 'By Request Covers Set' where the band will be joined by the renowned Plovdiv Philharmonic Orchestra founded nearly 70 years ago and made up of over 100 highly qualified musicians

MP said himself in Facebook the entire show will be with the orchestra, so I guess it’s the correct information.
While DT didn’t make a DVD from a single TA show, MP is still doing one of the things he’s always did best when he was in DT...

Absolutely! I miss DT going the extra mile and it's clear who was always behind them doing so.

JR mentioned something in a recent interview about losing MP and how they did lose a bit of that pulse of the fan base that MP has.  I don't think there's any doubt DT lost some of that "extra mile" when MP left, but I don't think DT not releasing a TA live dvd has anything to do with that and simply just that there wasn't a huge market for such a release since people didn't even show up to many of the concerts.  Which makes me wonder, how big of a crowd will MP draw for this event?  It's not an easy spot to get to and I recall Devin Townsend's fans were organizing group cars for transportation because it's not an easy spot for people to travel to on their own.  I think these guys would be a bigger name draw than Devin, but then again, I really didn't see such a positive reaction to the album to think that people are coming out to see this.  I'm really curious to see how the small show in NJ goes down in February.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: DarkLord_Lalinc on December 06, 2017, 05:12:19 PM
MP said himself in Facebook the entire show will be with the orchestra, so I guess it’s the correct information.
While DT didn’t make a DVD from a single TA show, MP is still doing one of the things he’s always did best when he was in DT...

How is MP releasing a live album from almost every studio thing he's done in the past few years related to DT not releasing an Astonishing DVD release? DT released massive concerts from both the ADTOE and DT tour cycles (even one of them got a cinema treatment!) and they were great. I sometimes miss Portnoy's spark for extra material in DT (although I do not miss forced releases like Chaos in Motion), but I don't see why MP advocates (not implying that you are, just throwing this in as a general observation), are the first ones in trying to separate MP from his DT-related endeavours and yet are the first to pick on the things that DT's 'not doing right' and MP's 'doing right', whatever that is.

Of course the SoA DVD (or should we start calling them Blu-Rays? lol) sounds like a nice idea and something definitely worth checking out, but I think I understand why some people are picking on this decision. I mean, if I were Derek or Portnoy, doesn't matter how cocky I am regarding the image of my band (and oh God they're cocky), I would not let pass a chance to play live with an orchestra (if I got the chance of doing that myself at some point I would go so crazy), but it seems as a weird-ish course of action for a band that:
1) Has been 'officially' on the radar for just a couple of months
2) Has in it a member who has virtually criticized a certain CheeseWiz and CheeseWizBand and now is doing the same exact things the CheeseWizBand has done for the past decade or so.
3) Is filling up a set with covers for lack of original material (not saying this is a bad thing, but I certainly know what to expect of Billy Sheehan and Mike Portnoy doing covers by this point).

Don't mean to sound like I'm picking on the band, they're free to do as they please and I certainly will check that concert out at some point and even buy it if the material is good, but boy I get what some people say. Maybe it shouldn't be this way, but all the shit that's been boiling around these guys for the past few months has diminished my interest on this band and all its endeavours. Am I not being objective? I dunno, but I think some folks around here feel the same way I do.

On a more positive note, Opus Maximus is probably going to sound epic.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: devieira73 on December 06, 2017, 05:26:35 PM
Well, I guess the key point here is the "extra mile" attitude MP always have in release live material from any band he's involved. And C'MON, I'm a uber-fan of DT, but there's no defense to not have any official footage from TA tour. It was the most beautiful stage production show made by DT. It's not like they were going to film a new Star Wars, I'm sure they could do it in a fair budget for, at least, a YtseJam Records release.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: The Walrus on December 06, 2017, 05:45:24 PM
Maybe they wanted it to be a special event. Who knows. Not EVERYTHING needs a live release. TBH, I don't understand why Flying Colors has 2 live albums. Plus, then a whole wave of people would complain about continuing to milk The Astonishing. The book already gets tons of flack just for existing.  :lol
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bill1971 on December 06, 2017, 05:45:54 PM
This is very weird. Usually when bands do this it’s after an already established career with at least a few albums behind them.
That's what seems weird to me. To do this at this stage of Sons of Apollo almost to me makes it seem like a nostalgia act, or a cover band with big names in it that also happens to have an album that didn't chart in the US (except the Heatseakers Chart, still sold less than 5000 copies). It just seems odd, although it's guaranteed to sell on MP's name alone

if everyone that bought the album went to the show see them live, they could sell out 50 of those venues.

Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bill1971 on December 06, 2017, 05:47:50 PM
Well, I guess the key point here is the "extra mile" attitude MP always have in release live material from any band he's involved. And C'MON, I'm a uber-fan of DT, but there's no defense to not have any official footage from TA tour. It was the most beautiful stage production show made by DT. It's not like they were going to film a new Star Wars, I'm sure they could do it in a fair budget for, at least, a YtseJam Records release.

Agreed 100% I was very surprised that they didn't have a live DVD or CD or Blu Ray release. Since they were so strict with cameras there is not even many good bootlegs of the tour.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bill1971 on December 06, 2017, 05:52:45 PM
I am quite certain that A Change of Seasons will be on that request sheet or when people "write it in" MP may say "I said I wasn't going to play that live since DT played it recently but I'll do it for the fans"
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: TAC on December 06, 2017, 06:14:15 PM
I am quite certain that A Change of Seasons will be on that request sheet or when people "write it in" MP may say "I said I wasn't going to play that live since DT played it recently but I'll do it for the fans"

Yeah, maybe Breaking All Illusions too. ;D
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: KevShmev on December 06, 2017, 06:32:14 PM
Everyone needs to request Space Dye Vest.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: devieira73 on December 06, 2017, 07:18:56 PM
I really liked the idea of shooting a live DVD/BR in an ancient roman amphitheater (a nice touch, thinking about that Apollo is the same name for the greek god and the equivalent roman god), but I found interesting for them, that have been defending the band's rock attitude from the day one, to make its first live recording with an orchestra! Personally I think it's cool, although already been done a lot, but ironically it's a thing that I've heard a lot from rock purists that true rock bands shouldn't do that, like NEVER! In fact, this is almost a prog or a rock band-trying-to-be-taken-seriously cliché!
C'mon DTF, how didn't you pointed out this HUGE flaw yet?!?! You disapointed me! ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: PetFish on December 06, 2017, 09:11:46 PM
"... made up of over 100 highly qualified musicians."

Yeah, that's how I'd want to be described, "highly qualified".  It's like when you're trying to compliment someone but don't really have anything so you say that they're "punctual".

Some people find fault in everything... I think it's a great idea, and it'll keep things interesting. The level of negativity in this thread, and members making a point of posting here to criticize EVERY new info on this band, is just impressive. I wish I had half the free time you have...

Yeah, and some people are so blindly devoted that they can't even read properly that my comment was at the promoters saying they have "highly qualified" musicians as if the "real" musicians aren't available so they have backup musicians who can "adequately perform" their duties.

... and take your petty little "free time" personal shot you took at me as if I'm some sort of basement-dwelling troll with no life and shove it.  You have nearly as many posts as me in 1/6 the time I've been here not to mention nearly all of your recent ones are taking shots at DT and praising SoA who can do no wrong apparently.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: erwinrafael on December 06, 2017, 09:25:18 PM
Is there already a way to request covers?

I hope they would do one track in JSS' recent solo album. I'm addicted to the song Reign Again, it's been playing consistently in my Spotify play list.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Adami on December 06, 2017, 09:33:13 PM
I think if they wanted to have fun with us, they should record all the SFAM songs that DT played with an orchestra.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Setlist Scotty on December 06, 2017, 11:14:33 PM
"... made up of over 100 highly qualified musicians."

Yeah, that's how I'd want to be described, "highly qualified".  It's like when you're trying to compliment someone but don't really have anything so you say that they're "punctual".
Some people find fault in everything... I think it's a great idea, and it'll keep things interesting. The level of negativity in this thread, and members making a point of posting here to criticize EVERY new info on this band, is just impressive. I wish I had half the free time you have...
Yeah, and some people are so blindly devoted that they can't even read properly that my comment was at the promoters saying they have "highly qualified" musicians as if the "real" musicians aren't available so they have backup musicians who can "adequately perform" their duties.
Truth be told Eric, your comment does look like a dig at the band and not the promoter. That might not be the case, but considering how much you despise them, it could easily be interpreted that way - at first glance, I did.

Given that the promoter is from a country where English isn't the first language, is it necessary to nitpick such an insignificant detail?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: PetFish on December 07, 2017, 12:32:47 AM
Truth be told Eric, your comment does look like a dig at the band and not the promoter. That might not be the case, but considering how much you despise them, it could easily be interpreted that way - at first glance, I did.

Given that the promoter is from a country where English isn't the first language, is it necessary to nitpick such an insignificant detail?

Coming from you, Scotty, that means something, thanks, I appreciate that, but from Buddy up there not so much, cuz either way this person decided to make it personal and that's not cool.

... And as much as I *do* despise "them", it was 100% a dig at the promoter, SoA had nothing to do with the wording and I'll use the classic "we're progfans, we nitpick" cliche.

This whole situation has made everyone tense AF.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ? on December 07, 2017, 12:43:27 AM
https://www.radiotangra.com/en/news/read/30754.html
Quote
The new American supergroup featuring members of DREAM THEATER, MR. BIG, GUNS ‘N ROSES, and JOURNEY will present live the songs from its sensational debut album 'Psychotic Symphony' followed by a 'By Request Covers Set' where the band will be joined by the renowned Plovdiv Philharmonic Orchestra founded nearly 70 years ago and made up of over 100 highly qualified musicians

MP said himself in Facebook the entire show will be with the orchestra, so I guess it’s the correct information.
But wouldn't 2 sets be a lot of material to rehearse with the orchestra? Most bands (Opeth, Katatonia, Paradise Lost) have played just one set, and at least Mikael Åkerfeldt lamented the fact that they didn't have a lot of time to prepare for the show together. Anathema did play most of the show with the orchestra, but then most of the songs in their set had string arrangements already.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Sycsa on December 07, 2017, 01:03:18 AM
Truth be told Eric, your comment does look like a dig at the band and not the promoter. That might not be the case, but considering how much you despise them, it could easily be interpreted that way - at first glance, I did.

Given that the promoter is from a country where English isn't the first language, is it necessary to nitpick such an insignificant detail?

Coming from you, Scotty, that means something, thanks, I appreciate that, but from Buddy up there not so much, cuz either way this person decided to make it personal and that's not cool.

... And as much as I *do* despise "them", it was 100% a dig at the promoter, SoA had nothing to do with the wording and I'll use the classic "we're progfans, we nitpick" cliche.

This whole situation has made everyone tense AF.
May I ask why you “despise” them?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: MirrorMask on December 07, 2017, 01:37:38 AM
Well, as someone kinda "in the middle" (Dislike the social media fiascos, like the album) I have to say that, generally, one kinda gets from reading here and there a "Lol look at them, this is so gonna bomb" vibe.

On the specific issue, there's nothing wrong with the idea of playing with an orchestra, and a covers set is almost mandatory when you have only one album... it's the album itself that doesn't really fits an orchestra for me. Yeah, God of the Sun will be nice, and so half of Labyrinth, but the rest? Sign of the Times, Coming Home, Lost in Oblivion...? slapping some orchestra on the songs played as they are it's gonna give a "too much makeup on a woman" feel.

Someone earlier mentioned A Change of Seasons - I wouldn't complain at all if that would made the set, just like I felt there was nothing wrong with Mike playing it with Shattered Fortress. Both him and DT had legitimate reasons to play it in their current tours.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: DTA on December 07, 2017, 03:14:28 AM
To me, playing an amphitheater and using an orchestra should be like a big career event. To do it with only one album that hasn’t achieved legendary status by any means and to fill the rest of the set with other people’s work just seems to asinine and bizarre. Are they really going to have professionally trained orchestra musicians play some half-assed symphonic arrangement for a Van Halen song? Even VH themselves haven’t done that shit.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ganpondorodf on December 07, 2017, 04:03:24 AM
It does feel like they want 'legendary' status without putting in the years of effort that takes
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: MirrorMask on December 07, 2017, 04:12:05 AM
It does feel like they want 'legendary' status without putting in the years of effort that takes

Well, the single members have put years of effort. Sons of Apollo as a band obviously didn't.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ErHaO on December 07, 2017, 04:14:13 AM
To me, playing an amphitheater and using an orchestra should be like a big career event. To do it with only one album that hasn’t achieved legendary status by any means and to fill the rest of the set with other people’s work just seems to asinine and bizarre. Are they really going to have professionally trained orchestra musicians play some half-assed symphonic arrangement for a Van Halen song? Even VH themselves haven’t done that shit.

The purpose of a concert is to entertain people. If they do it with unique renditions of classic rock songs, why not? Them being half assed is a presumption on your part.

I also don't see why working with an orchestra needs to be an event after a succesful career. I see it as a large group of experienced mucisians performing music they love and if there is a crowd that enjoys it, the concert fullfills it's purpose.

There are no rules for this kind of stuff as far as I am aware. Though it is out of the norm, I don't see why it is a norm to adhere to.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: AngelBack on December 07, 2017, 06:36:47 AM
I'm hoping their second release will be a "Greatest Hits" album.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: antigoon on December 07, 2017, 06:57:53 AM
this is slowly approaching Spinal Tap territory
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: mikeyd23 on December 07, 2017, 07:01:29 AM
I'm hoping their second release will be a "Greatest Hits" album.

With a bonus second disc of covers!
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: The Walrus on December 07, 2017, 07:11:21 AM
this is slowly approaching Spinal Tap territory

*11" height replica of a labyrinth slowly descends onto the stage*
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: AngelBack on December 07, 2017, 07:12:39 AM
Sons of Tap
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: RodrigoAltaf on December 07, 2017, 07:14:37 AM
Yeah, they're gonna fail, I'm so happy, yay!!!!
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: AngelBack on December 07, 2017, 07:20:23 AM
Yeah, they're gonna fail, I'm so happy, yay!!!!

I certainly don't want them to fail, Portnoy is still one of my fave musicians ever.  But you have to see some humor in their "try hard" efforts to be great when most people feel the music just was not.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: RodrigoAltaf on December 07, 2017, 07:21:21 AM
I love the album, man.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ganpondorodf on December 07, 2017, 08:35:21 AM
this is slowly approaching Spinal Tap territory

*11" height replica of a labyrinth slowly descends onto the stage*

In ancient times, hundreds of years before the dawn of history, there lived a strange race of people... The Del Fuvios
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: SwedishGoose on December 07, 2017, 08:48:06 AM
I love the album, man.


But are you called "Most People"?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: RodrigoAltaf on December 07, 2017, 08:57:24 AM
I love the album, man.


But are you called "Most People"?

Nope... I can only speak for myself. Love the album, want them to make a great tour and play where I live so that I'm able to see them  And I really don't see the point of examining each and every post they make to try and find fault in them.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: erwinrafael on December 07, 2017, 09:01:15 AM
I love the album, man.


But are you called "Most People"?

Well, they did win an online poll on a prog website, so yay claim to fame.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: kaos2900 on December 07, 2017, 09:26:02 AM
Just when I though that band couldn't be anymore confusing. I'm glad I never step foot on that burning ship so need to have to worry about jumping off.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Orbert on December 07, 2017, 09:48:35 AM
I'm hoping their second release will be a "Greatest Hits" album.

With a bonus second disc of covers!

Recorded live with an orchestra!
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Dave_Manchester on December 07, 2017, 09:52:12 AM
I'm hoping their second release will be a "Greatest Hits" album.

With a bonus second disc of covers!

Recorded live with an orchestra!

With the vocal tracks removed so you can sing along at home!
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bill1971 on December 07, 2017, 09:55:34 AM
I love the album, man.


But are you called "Most People"?

Nope... I can only speak for myself. Love the album, want them to make a great tour and play where I live so that I'm able to see them  And I really don't see the point of examining each and every post they make to try and find fault in them.

I can only speak for myself but it is the brash arrogance that was started by DS and MP that rubbed me the wrong way from the start. It was almost a bully like attitude and like in the movies there is something satisfying about seeing the bully get beat up.

I do want to add this does not pertain to JSS, Sheehan and Ron, they seem like decent people and have not been involved in the bragging. But then again they don't have an axe to grind. They all seem pretty secure with their place in the music world.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Madman Shepherd on December 07, 2017, 12:00:06 PM
this is slowly approaching Spinal Tap territory

*11" height replica of a labyrinth slowly descends onto the stage*

In ancient times, hundreds of years before the dawn of history, there lived a strange race of people... The Del Fuvios

No one knows who they were or what they were doing
But their legacy remains....
Hewn in the rock of.....obscurity.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: RodrigoAltaf on December 07, 2017, 12:29:25 PM
They have a spot at Graspop Festival. Maiden, Megadeth, Ozzy and Priest are on the same bill!
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bill1971 on December 07, 2017, 12:48:13 PM
They have a spot at Graspop Festival. Maiden, Megadeth, Ozzy and Priest are on the same bill!

So is Follow the Cipher, Planet of Zeus and The Pink Slips

I am starting to feel like one of the judges in the muppet show.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: AngelBack on December 07, 2017, 12:50:50 PM
They have a spot at Graspop Festival. Maiden, Megadeth, Ozzy and Priest are on the same bill!

Amazing line up, some of these acts are getting severely long in the tooth, you never know if you will get another chance.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Adami on December 07, 2017, 12:52:29 PM
They have a spot at Graspop Festival. Maiden, Megadeth, Ozzy and Priest are on the same bill!


And those are really the gigs they should focus on, rather than headlining a show with a symphony.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on December 07, 2017, 01:15:32 PM
Graspop has a really nice bill this year. Not just all the big names, but the small name bands are pretty solid too. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: PROGdrummer on December 07, 2017, 02:25:08 PM
This thread is hilarious.

One page, we're all laughing at SOA for playing shows in "outhouses with liqour licenses", but it only takes one post before we all start bitching and moaning about how they are now playing in a theater with a full orchestra.

I think Mike's comment about this place being full of trolls is starting to hold some weight, no?

Nobody can say this band hasn't thouroughly entertained you folks, that's for sure. You may as well just swallow your pride and buy a shirt already.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: The Walrus on December 07, 2017, 02:30:14 PM
Which shirt should I buy? I'm thinking this one.

(https://i64.tinypic.com/6iqxa8.jpg)
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Madman Shepherd on December 07, 2017, 02:59:42 PM


At what point does accusing someone of being a troll reach trolling territory itself? 

Serious question. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ganpondorodf on December 07, 2017, 03:01:59 PM
Who's more trolling? The troll, or the troll who trolls him?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Madman Shepherd on December 07, 2017, 03:07:06 PM
Who's more trolling? The troll, or the troll who trolls him?

 :justjen
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: RodrigoAltaf on December 07, 2017, 04:41:15 PM
Which shirt should I buy? I'm thinking this one.

(https://i64.tinypic.com/6iqxa8.jpg)

I really liked this one - not many people will get it!
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: RodrigoAltaf on December 07, 2017, 07:17:02 PM
Metal Hammer review: https://teamrock.com/review/2017-12-07/sons-of-apollo-psychotic-symphony-album-review-2
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Metro on December 07, 2017, 08:21:55 PM
That's an advertisement, not a review.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Adami on December 07, 2017, 08:23:08 PM
Yea. I get that you really love the band and you want to counter balance the negative reception here, but that "review" doesn't help matters much.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: RodrigoAltaf on December 07, 2017, 08:35:31 PM
Yeah, it's only Metal Hammer, it's not like it's a magazine that has been around forever, right?

If they hated the album, I'm sure you guys would rush to post it here.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: KevShmev on December 07, 2017, 08:37:03 PM
Rolling Stone has been around a long time as well.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Schurftkut on December 07, 2017, 08:39:06 PM
it's no review, it's just naming some bandnames and mentioning the bandmembers saying they're doing their thing. no insight into the music or anything like it. remove the hypewords and there's nothing left..
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: RodrigoAltaf on December 07, 2017, 08:42:36 PM
it's no review, it's just naming some bandnames and mentioning the bandmembers saying they're doing their thing. no insight into the music or anything like it. remove the hypewords and there's nothing left..

But if it was negative, all of a sudden it would turn into a valid review for the eyes and ears of those who don't like the band. And all of a sudden, Metal Hammer would be a great source of information for metal news.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Schurftkut on December 07, 2017, 08:52:50 PM
no, it would still not be a review. you're missing the point here.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: RodrigoAltaf on December 07, 2017, 08:55:15 PM
It says "Album review" at the top of the page, and it's written by Malcolm Dome...how come it's not a review?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: RodrigoAltaf on December 07, 2017, 08:58:30 PM
Is this a review?

https://teamrock.com/review/2016-03-29/dream-theater
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Schurftkut on December 07, 2017, 09:00:33 PM
at least i know a whole lot more about the show it's talking about. Still no piece resembling good journalism.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Schurftkut on December 07, 2017, 09:01:36 PM
p.s. i'm not in "camp portnoy/camp DT" ... I don't care about that childish game some are playing here.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Adami on December 07, 2017, 09:04:11 PM
it's no review, it's just naming some bandnames and mentioning the bandmembers saying they're doing their thing. no insight into the music or anything like it. remove the hypewords and there's nothing left..

But if it was negative, all of a sudden it would turn into a valid review for the eyes and ears of those who don't like the band. And all of a sudden, Metal Hammer would be a great source of information for metal news.


No.


Is this a review?

https://teamrock.com/review/2016-03-29/dream-theater

No.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: SystematicThought on December 07, 2017, 09:22:56 PM
I think Mike's comment about this place being full of trolls is starting to hold some weight, no?
Nope. Sorry.

If Derek hadn't gone out and ripped on Dream Theater and it's members for no other reason but to promote his band, then us nitpicking every little thing about the band would most certainly be considered trolling and we would definitely be acting petty.

However, that's not how it played out. Derek took every opportunity to turn people away from this project by insulting Dream Theater and their fans, and in some cases on the this forum, some of us directly. We're just merely calling him out on it, so I think we're justified in what we say. If you don't like what we're saying, you don't need to read it. For the most part, we've been pretty fair. Bosk has said it many times before in this thread, the criticism this band has faced from us has been brought on by themselves, and really not even that...it's been brought on by Derek and his damaged ego feeling the need to drag others down to make himself look better. If Derek had kept his mouth shut, I think most of us would have given this band a shot. Sadly, I have no interest due to the actions of one person. Sorry you don't agree, but it is what it is.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: SwedishGoose on December 07, 2017, 10:07:21 PM
Which shirt should I buy? I'm thinking this one.

(https://i64.tinypic.com/6iqxa8.jpg)

Initially I thought that shirt was a joke but then I saw Mike post about merch on facebook....

Had I liked the album and the Del Fuvians had not tainted their reputation I would have like this.... cool idea
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Cool Chris on December 07, 2017, 10:26:56 PM
So they were established in 1997, were active for a year, then went on hiatus for 20 years? That certainly seems t-shirt worthy.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: nobloodyname on December 08, 2017, 12:24:39 AM
Plus, then a whole wave of people would complain about continuing to milk The Astonishing. The book already gets tons of flack just for existing.  :lol

I wish it did exist. They've had my money for, what, a year now?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Fritzinger on December 08, 2017, 01:56:51 AM
Which shirt should I buy? I'm thinking this one.

(https://i64.tinypic.com/6iqxa8.jpg)

Initially I thought that shirt was a joke but then I saw Mike post about merch on facebook....

Had I liked the album and the Del Fuvians had not tainted their reputation I would have like this.... cool idea

I think this is beyond arrogant.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: MirrorMask on December 08, 2017, 03:24:52 AM
It's not arrogant, but... making a shirt about a SINGLE joke? like if it was the greatest joke ever that needs to be preserved for posterity? sure, it was a nice moment to introduce the Once in a Livetime video, but to consider it worthy of T-shirt status and/or a defining moment for Derek...

It's like if DT would make a shirt about the "Sorry for the short set" remark by James after the 3+ hours show of Live Scenes from New York.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: erwinrafael on December 08, 2017, 03:57:39 AM
JSS said on his FB that the site of the show with the orchestra is his wife's hometown. Nice.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: devieira73 on December 08, 2017, 04:08:04 AM
it's no review, it's just naming some bandnames and mentioning the bandmembers saying they're doing their thing. no insight into the music or anything like it. remove the hypewords and there's nothing left..

But if it was negative, all of a sudden it would turn into a valid review for the eyes and ears of those who don't like the band. And all of a sudden, Metal Hammer would be a great source of information for metal news.

120% this, RodrigoAltaf.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: noxon on December 08, 2017, 04:27:15 AM
Is this a review?

https://teamrock.com/review/2016-03-29/dream-theater


There's a big difference in the two actually - although you wont see most of the difference if youre not a paying member of Teamrock. See that continue reading button at the bottom? That leads to MUCH more of the review, which is actually full of what a review should have. The Sons of Apollo thing reads like the press release that the band themselves gave out.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: The Walrus on December 08, 2017, 06:27:16 AM
it's no review, it's just naming some bandnames and mentioning the bandmembers saying they're doing their thing. no insight into the music or anything like it. remove the hypewords and there's nothing left..

But if it was negative, all of a sudden it would turn into a valid review for the eyes and ears of those who don't like the band. And all of a sudden, Metal Hammer would be a great source of information for metal news.

120% this, RodrigoAltaf.

Not true at all
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: RodrigoAltaf on December 08, 2017, 06:27:41 AM
Is this a review?

https://teamrock.com/review/2016-03-29/dream-theater


There's a big difference in the two actually - although you wont see most of the difference if youre not a paying member of Teamrock. See that continue reading button at the bottom? That leads to MUCH more of the review, which is actually full of what a review should have. The Sons of Apollo thing reads like the press release that the band themselves gave out.

I have access to the full content of TeamRock. A lot reviews I've seen on Metal Hammer are short like the one of SOA. It doesn't mean that it's fake, not valid, or a piece of advertisement. There's no need to undermine the value of the article, just because you don't agree with what it says.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ReaperKK on December 08, 2017, 06:45:53 AM
I wonder if the internet was more prevalent back in 1997 that if Derek would act the way he is acting now.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: devieira73 on December 08, 2017, 07:00:48 AM
Is this a review?

https://teamrock.com/review/2016-03-29/dream-theater


There's a big difference in the two actually - although you wont see most of the difference if youre not a paying member of Teamrock. See that continue reading button at the bottom? That leads to MUCH more of the review, which is actually full of what a review should have. The Sons of Apollo thing reads like the press release that the band themselves gave out.

I have access to the full content of TeamRock. A lot reviews I've seen on Metal Hammer are short like the one of SOA. It doesn't mean that it's fake, not valid, or a piece of advertisement. There's no need to undermine the value of the article, just because you don't agree with what it says.

This and, also, if you look at the reviews section of a magazine like Roadcrew in Brazil (which is a excellent rock magazine, IMO the best from the brazilian one nowadays) they are all a bit short because there's a lot of albums every month to cover, and you know, it's not like a "Roadiecrew especial edition - Sons of Apollo - Psychotic Symphonyv - The Review to end all reviews".
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: devieira73 on December 08, 2017, 07:14:51 AM
JSS said on his FB that the site of the show with the orchestra is his wife's hometown. Nice.

I’m glad to know that! At least her family will be at the recording of the DVD!

Sorry, guys, in the spirit of this thread, I couldn’t resist the joke ;D
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Stadler on December 08, 2017, 07:39:01 AM
I think Mike's comment about this place being full of trolls is starting to hold some weight, no?
Nope. Sorry.

If Derek hadn't gone out and ripped on Dream Theater and it's members for no other reason but to promote his band, then us nitpicking every little thing about the band would most certainly be considered trolling and we would definitely be acting petty.

However, that's not how it played out. Derek took every opportunity to turn people away from this project by insulting Dream Theater and their fans, and in some cases on the this forum, some of us directly. We're just merely calling him out on it, so I think we're justified in what we say. If you don't like what we're saying, you don't need to read it. For the most part, we've been pretty fair. Bosk has said it many times before in this thread, the criticism this band has faced from us has been brought on by themselves, and really not even that...it's been brought on by Derek and his damaged ego feeling the need to drag others down to make himself look better. If Derek had kept his mouth shut, I think most of us would have given this band a shot. Sadly, I have no interest due to the actions of one person. Sorry you don't agree, but it is what it is.


I respectfully do not agree with that.    That's the musical equivalent of "did you see what she was wearing?" or "I know you are but what am I?", that game that school kids play.    Regardless of anything Derek did, we have a personal responsibility to control our own behavior.    It's one thing to say, in response to Derek's comments, "I don't agree with that", or even "I don't feel comfortable supporting that project."    It's entirely another thing to call Derek names, ascribe motivations (that we have no way of knowing) and by proxy ascribing this all to Mike as well (because apparently, being the final arbiter of decisions in the band seems to make you responsible for pre-approving any social media release even on other people's personal twitter account).  Either way, though, own the response, don't blame the band.

Most of the criticisms have been fair, I'll give you that, but some have gone over the top, and some have patently refused to acknowledge even the slightest positive from this project (and like it or not - for me, musically it's not a home-run - there are some highlights, Thal and (for some, not me) Soto).   And others, who have supported the band despite the questionable choices of marketing, have been tagged as "fanboys".   

Look, you're talking to a guy that professed to be Team Mike.  And I'll admit that some of the developments over the past few months have tarnished that.  I see what was a fiercely creative, fiercely fan-friendly, fiercely talented guy sort of morph into a fiercely talented, fiercely driven guy who's perhaps starting to feel his age, is experiencing the first faint wisps of desperation, and as a result is micromanaging things to a detrimental degree.  Like Mike, I turned 50 a couple months ago, and for some it can be a different age.   Mike at this point doesn't have an entity that can be a regular, periodic touring entity that can go out AT HIS WHIM (everything else is tied to other members or is controlled by other members).   He's got a lot of eggs in this basket.   If we're going to speculate on Mike and Derek's feelings about or relationship with DT, I think it's only fair to recognize that the personal aspect of things is a possible factor in all this as well. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Stadler on December 08, 2017, 07:46:53 AM
Which shirt should I buy? I'm thinking this one.

(https://i64.tinypic.com/6iqxa8.jpg)

Initially I thought that shirt was a joke but then I saw Mike post about merch on facebook....

Had I liked the album and the Del Fuvians had not tainted their reputation I would have like this.... cool idea

I think this is beyond arrogant.

Eh, it's rock and roll.  I went to see Yngwie a couple weeks ago and he had ONE SHIRT for sale:   black, with white block letters that said "Yngwie, who?" on the front, and "Yngwie Fucking Malmsteen, that's who!" on the back.   Equally arrogant.

I'm not taking any credit for any of this, but I posted on Mike's site a couple months ago that I thought the "Making history... and you?" line was very funny, certainly the funniest thing I've ever heard on a DT record (I referenced the version on the Ytsejam studio recordings, though) and then about a week later they referenced it in one of the videos of them sitting on stools talking about the new project.   Again, I'm not making a connection with me, but pointing out that this is not an "isolated" thing, and some might think it's clever.  How is this any different than the "Toxic Twins" t-shirts that went around when Aerosmith got clean (I guess around "Pump"?), or the Glimmer Twins references for the Stones?   When the Eagles got back together they made a bunch of money off the "When Hell Freezes Over" nonsense, and if I'm not mistaken, Guns and Roses have made reference to their renewed partnership. 

If even one person says "what's the deal with that?" and digs in, their work is done. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Train of Naught on December 08, 2017, 07:55:42 AM
It all comes down to how well the band knows their audience and conducts marketing strategies based on their knowledge. It may be arrogant, but if they are aware of some in-joke going 'viral' within their fanbase and attempting to capitalize on that, it is probably a good idea. Now I have no clue what the demographics of Sons of Apollo are exactly so I've got another example.

I think like last year or this year, Animals As Leaders put out this t-shirt for sale:
(https://i.imgur.com/rmEZQ2o.png)
Arrogant? Extremely. But the endless circlejerk about their music being technical wankery and their fans praising Tosin to no end made this a huge success. The t-shirt even came back by popular demand after it was taken out of the assortment.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: rumborak on December 08, 2017, 07:58:00 AM
It was genuinely funny when it appeared on the DVD, definitely. That they're now dragging it out again as this supposedly epically humorous line, meh. A bit like Ass and Balls, where the author thinks it's funnier than everybody else.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Stadler on December 08, 2017, 08:17:20 AM
It was genuinely funny when it appeared on the DVD, definitely. That they're now dragging it out again as this supposedly epically humorous line, meh. A bit like Ass and Balls, where the author thinks it's funnier than everybody else.

Well, you're right about one thing:  that it is funny doesn't mean you drive it into the ground.   Sometimes a little bit goes a long way.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Evermind on December 08, 2017, 08:33:13 AM
It all comes down to how well the band knows their audience and conducts marketing strategies based on their knowledge. It may be arrogant, but if they are aware of some in-joke going 'viral' within their fanbase and attempting to capitalize on that, it is probably a good idea. Now I have no clue what the demographics of Sons of Apollo are exactly so I've got another example.

I think like last year or this year, Animals As Leaders put out this t-shirt for sale:
(https://i.imgur.com/rmEZQ2o.png)
Arrogant? Extremely. But the endless circlejerk about their music being technical wankery and their fans praising Tosin to no end made this a huge success. The t-shirt even came back by popular demand after it was taken out of the assortment.

Speaking of that, I have this Devin Townsend's Transcendence shirt:

(https://d5lq1fn667whc.cloudfront.net/resize?url=https%3A%2F%2Fmusicglue-user-app-p-2-p.s3.amazonaws.com%2Foriginals%2F92a06bc0-a21a-0135-29dd-4a6816e5ca90&height=1200&mode=fit&width=1200)
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bill1971 on December 08, 2017, 08:36:20 AM
It's not arrogant, but... making a shirt about a SINGLE joke? like if it was the greatest joke ever that needs to be preserved for posterity? sure, it was a nice moment to introduce the Once in a Livetime video, but to consider it worthy of T-shirt status and/or a defining moment for Derek...

It's like if DT would make a shirt about the "Sorry for the short set" remark by James after the 3+ hours show of Live Scenes from New York.

True, it would be like making a Tshirt of Kevin Moore's comment about that girl that asked for an autograph in their first VHS release. I forget the exact words but he is saying she doesn't know who Dream Theater is but she had a pen, so why not?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Nick on December 08, 2017, 08:56:44 AM
That DTP shirt is amazing. :lol
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Sycsa on December 08, 2017, 09:13:32 AM
it's no review, it's just naming some bandnames and mentioning the bandmembers saying they're doing their thing. no insight into the music or anything like it. remove the hypewords and there's nothing left..

But if it was negative, all of a sudden it would turn into a valid review for the eyes and ears of those who don't like the band. And all of a sudden, Metal Hammer would be a great source of information for metal news.

120% this, RodrigoAltaf.
240% delusion.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: RodrigoAltaf on December 08, 2017, 09:20:52 AM
it's no review, it's just naming some bandnames and mentioning the bandmembers saying they're doing their thing. no insight into the music or anything like it. remove the hypewords and there's nothing left..

But if it was negative, all of a sudden it would turn into a valid review for the eyes and ears of those who don't like the band. And all of a sudden, Metal Hammer would be a great source of information for metal news.

120% this, RodrigoAltaf.
240% delusion.

There's evidence of that in this very thread...
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bill1971 on December 08, 2017, 09:30:40 AM
it's no review, it's just naming some bandnames and mentioning the bandmembers saying they're doing their thing. no insight into the music or anything like it. remove the hypewords and there's nothing left..

But if it was negative, all of a sudden it would turn into a valid review for the eyes and ears of those who don't like the band. And all of a sudden, Metal Hammer would be a great source of information for metal news.

120% this, RodrigoAltaf.
240% delusion.

There's evidence of that in this very thread...

Where? I think people have been very even handed with if a review is really a review or not. I actually think an all negative review is as bad as an all positive one.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Sycsa on December 08, 2017, 09:33:50 AM
it's no review, it's just naming some bandnames and mentioning the bandmembers saying they're doing their thing. no insight into the music or anything like it. remove the hypewords and there's nothing left..

But if it was negative, all of a sudden it would turn into a valid review for the eyes and ears of those who don't like the band. And all of a sudden, Metal Hammer would be a great source of information for metal news.

120% this, RodrigoAltaf.
240% delusion.

There's evidence of that in this very thread...
If you think that some people here are unreasonable towards SoA, that’s a point of view you could probably defend, but definitely not by being equally or even more unreasonable than them. But ok, I’ll bite, let’s see your evidence: where is that rudimentary negative review that is considered valid and a great source of information, just because it’s negative? Or anything even remotely similar to that?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ? on December 08, 2017, 09:34:55 AM
That Devin shirt :rollin

Now we need a petition to demand DT to release a Live in Tokyo 25th anniversary shirt with "I had a pen and some paper, so what the fuck" on it next year...
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on December 08, 2017, 10:09:52 AM
I also have that DTP shirt  :metal
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: rumborak on December 08, 2017, 10:14:43 AM
I have not bought a DT shirt in years. If they had a funny shirt like that, I would buy one in a heartbeat.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: RodrigoAltaf on December 08, 2017, 10:18:50 AM
it's no review, it's just naming some bandnames and mentioning the bandmembers saying they're doing their thing. no insight into the music or anything like it. remove the hypewords and there's nothing left..

But if it was negative, all of a sudden it would turn into a valid review for the eyes and ears of those who don't like the band. And all of a sudden, Metal Hammer would be a great source of information for metal news.

120% this, RodrigoAltaf.
240% delusion.

There's evidence of that in this very thread...
If you think that some people here are unreasonable towards SoA, that’s a point of view you could probably defend, but definitely not by being equally or even more unreasonable than them. But ok, I’ll bite, let’s see your evidence: where is that rudimentary negative review that is considered valid and a great source of information, just because it’s negative? Or anything even remotely similar to that?
I won't skim through 82 pages just to prove my point, but there are a bunch of negative reviews that came out before the album was released that got a lot of attention and highlight here - relevant or not, well written or not, detailed enough or not. Some people are choosing to hate whatever comes from SOA and are making a point of posting here in a topic that's supposed to be for fans who want to follow that band and be informed about it. The level of hate this is getting is not experienced towards ANY band here in DTF.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Adami on December 08, 2017, 10:25:05 AM
No one dismissing positive reviews because they're positive. They're dismissing poorly written reviews that do nothing but say how amazing something is without actually reviewing it.

If you found a review that just said "this album sucks! the guys have no idea how to play!" or whatever, we'd dismiss that too.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Sycsa on December 08, 2017, 11:10:50 AM
it's no review, it's just naming some bandnames and mentioning the bandmembers saying they're doing their thing. no insight into the music or anything like it. remove the hypewords and there's nothing left..

But if it was negative, all of a sudden it would turn into a valid review for the eyes and ears of those who don't like the band. And all of a sudden, Metal Hammer would be a great source of information for metal news.

120% this, RodrigoAltaf.
240% delusion.

There's evidence of that in this very thread...
If you think that some people here are unreasonable towards SoA, that’s a point of view you could probably defend, but definitely not by being equally or even more unreasonable than them. But ok, I’ll bite, let’s see your evidence: where is that rudimentary negative review that is considered valid and a great source of information, just because it’s negative? Or anything even remotely similar to that?
I won't skim through 82 pages just to prove my point, but there are a bunch of negative reviews that came out before the album was released that got a lot of attention and highlight here - relevant or not, well written or not, detailed enough or not. Some people are choosing to hate whatever comes from SOA and are making a point of posting here in a topic that's supposed to be for fans who want to follow that band and be informed about it. The level of hate this is getting is not experienced towards ANY band here in DTF.
I’ve been closely following every single SoA thread since the beginning, and I have no idea what you’re referring to. We had overwhelmingly positive pre-release reviews, to the point where someone even wrote a fake “parody” review. Noxon gave it a very reasonable 7/10 in a detailed review, and got called out for it by Derek on social media. Pending any “evidence,” I’m calling shenanigans on your part.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Stadler on December 08, 2017, 12:37:52 PM
That DTP shirt is amazing. :lol

I'd wear that in a heartbeat.   After writing him off for years, Devin Townsend is SCREAMING up my list of favorite artists like a moon shot.  That's my sense of humor right there (and, incidentally the way I took Derek's comment on "history"; not serious but self-deprecating as he noodled in the studio).
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Skeever on December 08, 2017, 12:43:09 PM
MP's concerts are starting to feel like talent shows put on for family and friends.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: The Walrus on December 08, 2017, 12:46:21 PM
That DTP shirt is amazing. :lol

I'd wear that in a heartbeat.   After writing him off for years, Devin Townsend is SCREAMING up my list of favorite artists like a moon shot.  That's my sense of humor right there (and, incidentally the way I took Derek's comment on "history"; not serious but self-deprecating as he noodled in the studio).

This is only slightly off-topic but did you ever see the video of him singing Burning My Soul with PSMS at ProgNation At Sea 2014? Not work safe cause of language, but man. Funny as hell.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SxKKI233rHE
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bill1971 on December 08, 2017, 12:56:59 PM
it's no review, it's just naming some bandnames and mentioning the bandmembers saying they're doing their thing. no insight into the music or anything like it. remove the hypewords and there's nothing left..



But if it was negative, all of a sudden it would turn into a valid review for the eyes and ears of those who don't like the band. And all of a sudden, Metal Hammer would be a great source of information for metal news.

120% this, RodrigoAltaf.
240% delusion.

There's evidence of that in this very thread...
If you think that some people here are unreasonable towards SoA, that’s a point of view you could probably defend, but definitely not by being equally or even more unreasonable than them. But ok, I’ll bite, let’s see your evidence: where is that rudimentary negative review that is considered valid and a great source of information, just because it’s negative? Or anything even remotely similar to that?
I won't skim through 82 pages just to prove my point, but there are a bunch of negative reviews that came out before the album was released that got a lot of attention and highlight here - relevant or not, well written or not, detailed enough or not. Some people are choosing to hate whatever comes from SOA and are making a point of posting here in a topic that's supposed to be for fans who want to follow that band and be informed about it. The level of hate this is getting is not experienced towards ANY band here in DTF.

I think you are mistaken, I don't recall seeing a very bad review of them. Some  are over the top good at most is the one someone wrote here and even that it was a 7. Which Derek dismissed him as being a fan boy or something like that.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Stadler on December 08, 2017, 12:58:12 PM
That DTP shirt is amazing. :lol

I'd wear that in a heartbeat.   After writing him off for years, Devin Townsend is SCREAMING up my list of favorite artists like a moon shot.  That's my sense of humor right there (and, incidentally the way I took Derek's comment on "history"; not serious but self-deprecating as he noodled in the studio).
This is only slightly off-topic but did you ever see the video of him singing Burning My Soul with PSMS at ProgNation At Sea 2014? Not work safe cause of language, but man. Funny as hell.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SxKKI233rHE



"C'mon you prog fuckin' geeks!" and later, "As a group of men, I say unto thee..."  At least he knows his audience.   ;) 

What did the band say about that?   That seems to be in line with the Devin that I have (albeit in limited fashion) been exposed to, and in keeping with his sense of humor.    But I can see the band saying "Not funny, dude."   
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Adami on December 08, 2017, 12:59:41 PM
Yea, MP doesn't seem to show a lot of self-deprecating humor, but that's what Devin does better than other musicians.


Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Stadler on December 08, 2017, 01:03:07 PM
Yea, MP doesn't seem to show a lot of self-deprecating humor, but that's what Devin does better than other musicians.

I'm not professing to be a Devin Townsend expert now, but from what I gather, from his book and some of the writings on his website, he's FAR more about the process than the output.   It's the emotion that went into the creation, where his head was at, and what he was trying to explore by letting that music out.   Mike strikes me as far more into the output.  This is my song, this is my statement, recognize it.   Those two outlooks could NOT be more polar opposites.   
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: The Walrus on December 08, 2017, 01:03:53 PM
This is only slightly off-topic but did you ever see the video of him singing Burning My Soul with PSMS at ProgNation At Sea 2014? Not work safe cause of language, but man. Funny as hell.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SxKKI233rHE



"C'mon you prog fuckin' geeks!" and later, "As a group of men, I say unto thee..."  At least he knows his audience.   ;) 

What did the band say about that?   That seems to be in line with the Devin that I have (albeit in limited fashion) been exposed to, and in keeping with his sense of humor.    But I can see the band saying "Not funny, dude."

I don't know about any comments from the band but it looks like Mike was having a hell of a time during that. Some YouTube comments tell me that some people in the audience were NOT having fun. Unless you were talking about Dream Theater... then I have no idea if they've even seen that.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: devieira73 on December 08, 2017, 01:48:01 PM
it's no review, it's just naming some bandnames and mentioning the bandmembers saying they're doing their thing. no insight into the music or anything like it. remove the hypewords and there's nothing left..



But if it was negative, all of a sudden it would turn into a valid review for the eyes and ears of those who don't like the band. And all of a sudden, Metal Hammer would be a great source of information for metal news.

120% this, RodrigoAltaf.
240% delusion.

There's evidence of that in this very thread...
If you think that some people here are unreasonable towards SoA, that’s a point of view you could probably defend, but definitely not by being equally or even more unreasonable than them. But ok, I’ll bite, let’s see your evidence: where is that rudimentary negative review that is considered valid and a great source of information, just because it’s negative? Or anything even remotely similar to that?
I won't skim through 82 pages just to prove my point, but there are a bunch of negative reviews that came out before the album was released that got a lot of attention and highlight here - relevant or not, well written or not, detailed enough or not. Some people are choosing to hate whatever comes from SOA and are making a point of posting here in a topic that's supposed to be for fans who want to follow that band and be informed about it. The level of hate this is getting is not experienced towards ANY band here in DTF.

I think you are mistaken, I don't recall seeing a very bad review of them. Some  are over the top good at most is the one someone wrote here and even that it was a 7. Which Derek dismissed him as being a fan boy or something like that.

So the consensus here now is that, outside this forum, the overall reviews of the album are good to very good? I’m truly confused, because I understood that the point here was to prove the other way round, at least for the so called well written reviews.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Stadler on December 08, 2017, 01:59:28 PM
This is only slightly off-topic but did you ever see the video of him singing Burning My Soul with PSMS at ProgNation At Sea 2014? Not work safe cause of language, but man. Funny as hell.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SxKKI233rHE



"C'mon you prog fuckin' geeks!" and later, "As a group of men, I say unto thee..."  At least he knows his audience.   ;) 

What did the band say about that?   That seems to be in line with the Devin that I have (albeit in limited fashion) been exposed to, and in keeping with his sense of humor.    But I can see the band saying "Not funny, dude."

I don't know about any comments from the band but it looks like Mike was having a hell of a time during that. Some YouTube comments tell me that some people in the audience were NOT having fun. Unless you were talking about Dream Theater... then I have no idea if they've even seen that.

Well, that explains Devin pointing at people and saying "You hate me!  I can tell!"  Haha.  I like artists that challenge like that.   
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bill1971 on December 08, 2017, 03:02:42 PM
it's no review, it's just naming some bandnames and mentioning the bandmembers saying they're doing their thing. no insight into the music or anything like it. remove the hypewords and there's nothing left..



But if it was negative, all of a sudden it would turn into a valid review for the eyes and ears of those who don't like the band. And all of a sudden, Metal Hammer would be a great source of information for metal news.

120% this, RodrigoAltaf.
240% delusion.

There's evidence of that in this very thread...
If you think that some people here are unreasonable towards SoA, that’s a point of view you could probably defend, but definitely not by being equally or even more unreasonable than them. But ok, I’ll bite, let’s see your evidence: where is that rudimentary negative review that is considered valid and a great source of information, just because it’s negative? Or anything even remotely similar to that?
I won't skim through 82 pages just to prove my point, but there are a bunch of negative reviews that came out before the album was released that got a lot of attention and highlight here - relevant or not, well written or not, detailed enough or not. Some people are choosing to hate whatever comes from SOA and are making a point of posting here in a topic that's supposed to be for fans who want to follow that band and be informed about it. The level of hate this is getting is not experienced towards ANY band here in DTF.

I think you are mistaken, I don't recall seeing a very bad review of them. Some  are over the top good at most is the one someone wrote here and even that it was a 7. Which Derek dismissed him as being a fan boy or something like that.

So the consensus here now is that, outside this forum, the overall reviews of the album are good to very good? I’m truly confused, because I understood that the point here was to prove the other way round, at least for the so called well written reviews.

I don't think the point anyone had was to show the album got bad reviews. I know many here did not like it and many including Bosk, the forum admin did like it. I think the "poking fun" is towards the sales and venue sizes. Also towards DS and MP's arrogance. It seemed to get a lot of good reviews. It's not a bad album at all, just nothing new or to me worth going back to.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: devieira73 on December 08, 2017, 03:07:12 PM
Cool, I guess this thread became really a mess, too much noise in any discussion  :D
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Lethean on December 08, 2017, 03:30:14 PM
This is only slightly off-topic but did you ever see the video of him singing Burning My Soul with PSMS at ProgNation At Sea 2014? Not work safe cause of language, but man. Funny as hell.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SxKKI233rHE



"C'mon you prog fuckin' geeks!" and later, "As a group of men, I say unto thee..."  At least he knows his audience.   ;) 

What did the band say about that?   That seems to be in line with the Devin that I have (albeit in limited fashion) been exposed to, and in keeping with his sense of humor.    But I can see the band saying "Not funny, dude."

I don't know about any comments from the band but it looks like Mike was having a hell of a time during that. Some YouTube comments tell me that some people in the audience were NOT having fun. Unless you were talking about Dream Theater... then I have no idea if they've even seen that.

Well, that explains Devin pointing at people and saying "You hate me!  I can tell!"  Haha.  I like artists that challenge like that.

I'm pretty sure Mike was fine with it - he posted something about it either on FB or his forum saying that it was all in fun. 

In general, I find his humor at shows to be hit or miss.  I don't mind a few comments over the course of a show, and I've seen him like that and prefer it. A couple times he's been just a bit too much - making me want him to just shut up and play already.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: KevShmev on December 08, 2017, 06:59:00 PM
Yea, MP doesn't seem to show a lot of self-deprecating humor, but that's what Devin does better than other musicians.

I'm not professing to be a Devin Townsend expert now, but from what I gather, from his book and some of the writings on his website, he's FAR more about the process than the output.   It's the emotion that went into the creation, where his head was at, and what he was trying to explore by letting that music out.   Mike strikes me as far more into the output.  This is my song, this is my statement, recognize it.   Those two outlooks could NOT be more polar opposites.

Plus, Devin is actually appreciative of every single one of his fans.  Seriously, I went to his show here back in May, where there couldn't have been more than a few hundred people, and he had so much joy and enthusiasm you would have thought he was playing to 20K.  Devin is easily THE most fan-friendly musician in the business these days.

Also, I would have bought that DTP shirt at the show had they had it in my size. >:(
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Adami on December 08, 2017, 07:03:36 PM
Even though I don't dig his newer music quite as much, Devin will always be my favorite musician as a person.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Shadow Ninja 2.0 on December 08, 2017, 07:37:59 PM
I love that performance. Devin's hilarious in his rambles on the verses, but man, he really tears it up on the chorus. So energy! Power! :metal
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Adami on December 08, 2017, 07:41:54 PM
I love that performance. Devin's hilarious in his rambles on the verses, but man, he really tears it up on the chorus. So energy! Power! :metal

I've rarely seen anyone so confidently not know the song lol

But yea, when he actually screams burning my soul.....shivers.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: TAC on December 08, 2017, 07:46:06 PM
I like Devin Townsend. Just not his music.
Title: :P
Post by: Shadow Ninja 2.0 on December 08, 2017, 07:56:31 PM
Man, then what are you doing in the Devin Townsend thread?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Madman Shepherd on December 08, 2017, 08:42:36 PM
That DTP shirt is amazing. :lol

I'd wear that in a heartbeat.   After writing him off for years, Devin Townsend is SCREAMING up my list of favorite artists like a moon shot.  That's my sense of humor right there (and, incidentally the way I took Derek's comment on "history"; not serious but self-deprecating as he noodled in the studio).

This is only slightly off-topic but did you ever see the video of him singing Burning My Soul with PSMS at ProgNation At Sea 2014? Not work safe cause of language, but man. Funny as hell.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SxKKI233rHE

I prefer the new lyrics Devin sang:

As a group of men, I say unto thee...
I say it's green, then you sir say it's red
What's my next line
Keep your thoughts and ideas locked in your head you dick!
We have someone who can sing this instead, thank god
And he sounds just like James LaBrie!
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ariich on December 09, 2017, 02:02:13 AM
I respectfully do not agree with that.    That's the musical equivalent of "did you see what she was wearing?" or "I know you are but what am I?", that game that school kids play.    Regardless of anything Derek did, we have a personal responsibility to control our own behavior.    It's one thing to say, in response to Derek's comments, "I don't agree with that", or even "I don't feel comfortable supporting that project."    It's entirely another thing to call Derek names, ascribe motivations (that we have no way of knowing) and by proxy ascribing this all to Mike as well (because apparently, being the final arbiter of decisions in the band seems to make you responsible for pre-approving any social media release even on other people's personal twitter account).  Either way, though, own the response, don't blame the band.
This is exactly the issue I have with this thread. Double standards.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Madman Shepherd on December 09, 2017, 09:28:30 AM
I respectfully do not agree with that.    That's the musical equivalent of "did you see what she was wearing?" or "I know you are but what am I?", that game that school kids play.    Regardless of anything Derek did, we have a personal responsibility to control our own behavior.    It's one thing to say, in response to Derek's comments, "I don't agree with that", or even "I don't feel comfortable supporting that project."    It's entirely another thing to call Derek names, ascribe motivations (that we have no way of knowing) and by proxy ascribing this all to Mike as well (because apparently, being the final arbiter of decisions in the band seems to make you responsible for pre-approving any social media release even on other people's personal twitter account).  Either way, though, own the response, don't blame the band.
This is exactly the issue I have with this thread. Double standards.

I see a lot of that also, but probably not in the way you're thinking. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on December 09, 2017, 11:53:05 AM
That DTP shirt is amazing. :lol

I'd wear that in a heartbeat.   After writing him off for years, Devin Townsend is SCREAMING up my list of favorite artists like a moon shot.  That's my sense of humor right there (and, incidentally the way I took Derek's comment on "history"; not serious but self-deprecating as he noodled in the studio).

This is only slightly off-topic but did you ever see the video of him singing Burning My Soul with PSMS at ProgNation At Sea 2014? Not work safe cause of language, but man. Funny as hell.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SxKKI233rHE

 :lol this guy doesn't like me as he points to Derk Shershersherin
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bosk1 on December 11, 2017, 09:09:05 AM
I think Mike's comment about this place being full of trolls is starting to hold some weight, no?
No.

Some people are choosing to hate whatever comes from SOA and are making a point of posting here in a topic that's supposed to be for fans who want to follow that band and be informed about it. The level of hate this is getting is not experienced towards ANY band here in DTF.

Well, I have been following the thread for all 82 pages, and I can say without hesitation that what you just said is not even remotely accurate.  If that is what you think, you are not being even slightly objective in your reading of this thread.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: RodrigoAltaf on December 11, 2017, 02:54:57 PM
I think Mike's comment about this place being full of trolls is starting to hold some weight, no?
No.

Some people are choosing to hate whatever comes from SOA and are making a point of posting here in a topic that's supposed to be for fans who want to follow that band and be informed about it. The level of hate this is getting is not experienced towards ANY band here in DTF.

Well, I have been following the thread for all 82 pages, and I can say without hesitation that what you just said is not even remotely accurate.  If that is what you think, you are not being even slightly objective in your reading of this thread.

Or you're not reading the posts the way I am.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: The Walrus on December 11, 2017, 02:58:34 PM
Ah, subjective determination of motivation. Sounds like a good proggy title for SoA's next album  :metal  :lol  :biggrin:
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: MirrorMask on December 11, 2017, 03:02:19 PM
"SDOM", even the acronym works good  :D I wonder why didn't any other band think of it before  :lol
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Sycsa on December 11, 2017, 04:28:34 PM
I think Mike's comment about this place being full of trolls is starting to hold some weight, no?
No.

Some people are choosing to hate whatever comes from SOA and are making a point of posting here in a topic that's supposed to be for fans who want to follow that band and be informed about it. The level of hate this is getting is not experienced towards ANY band here in DTF.

Well, I have been following the thread for all 82 pages, and I can say without hesitation that what you just said is not even remotely accurate.  If that is what you think, you are not being even slightly objective in your reading of this thread.

Or you're not reading the posts the way I am.

Methinks you could use a little self-examination. I called you out on your obvious BS on the previous page, and your reply was "I won't skim through 82 pages just to prove my point." Nice. It's really hard to take your "points" and your biased, baseless generalizations seriously.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: RodrigoAltaf on December 11, 2017, 04:59:57 PM
I think Mike's comment about this place being full of trolls is starting to hold some weight, no?
No.

Some people are choosing to hate whatever comes from SOA and are making a point of posting here in a topic that's supposed to be for fans who want to follow that band and be informed about it. The level of hate this is getting is not experienced towards ANY band here in DTF.

Well, I have been following the thread for all 82 pages, and I can say without hesitation that what you just said is not even remotely accurate.  If that is what you think, you are not being even slightly objective in your reading of this thread.

Or you're not reading the posts the way I am.

Methinks you could use a little self-examination. I called you out on your obvious BS on the previous page, and your reply was "I won't skim through 82 pages just to prove my point." Nice. It's really hard to take your "points" and your biased, baseless generalizations seriously.

I think you're the one who needs self examination, because my point of view still stands: a lot of people in this thread are determined to hate SOA, no matter what. And I suggest we stop our little debate right there, because it's not going anywhere.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bosk1 on December 11, 2017, 05:03:39 PM
Yes, the debate does need to stop.  There is no evidence of "a lot of people in this thread are determined to hate SOA, no matter what," so please stop misrepresenting people that post here.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Adami on December 11, 2017, 05:27:18 PM
I am determined to hate SOA no matter what.


Service Oriented Architecture needs to be stopped, once and for all!
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bosk1 on December 11, 2017, 05:28:15 PM
I knew it would be you.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Adami on December 11, 2017, 05:30:28 PM
I knew it would be you.

It's a matter of principle.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: hefdaddy42 on December 12, 2017, 04:19:59 AM
:clap:
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: the keyboard wizard on December 12, 2017, 07:56:02 AM
Here's a new interview of Derek done by me : https://blogofapollo.wordpress.com/2017/12/12/premier-article-de-blog/
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Sycsa on December 12, 2017, 08:56:31 AM
Here's a new interview of Derek done by me : https://blogofapollo.wordpress.com/2017/12/12/premier-article-de-blog/
Props to Derek for hauling the big ass B3 to all those small gigs. Seeing and hearing a real Hammond live is always special. That condom comment made me cringe hard though. His 5-year-old self would surely appreciate it.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: rumborak on December 12, 2017, 09:31:30 AM
We spent a lot of time with the lyrics and melody lines. He will be able to reproduce his vocal performance live at ease because we wrote within his vocal range. There is nothing worse than going to see a band that you like, and the singer sounds like he is dying up there struggling to hit the notes.

 :corn
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bill1971 on December 12, 2017, 09:36:29 AM
We spent a lot of time with the lyrics and melody lines. He will be able to reproduce his vocal performance live at ease because we wrote within his vocal range. There is nothing worse than going to see a band that you like, and the singer sounds like he is dying up there struggling to hit the notes.

 :corn

It was sort of an insult to Jeff as well. Also, to Geddy Lee, Geoff Tate and any other singer over the age of 35.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bill1971 on December 12, 2017, 09:40:13 AM
Why did you choose Jeff as a singer? Did you have other choices?

It was very important to us to have strong and powerful rock vocals. Jeff did a great job on Psychotic Symphony. We spent a lot of time with the lyrics and melody lines.

Weren't they only in the studio for a week??
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: devieira73 on December 12, 2017, 09:40:37 AM
DTF jumping in Derek’s throat in 1 2 3... ;D
I think what he said was a valid opinion and said with kindness (finally!) and of course it applies to a multitude of singers.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bosk1 on December 12, 2017, 09:43:06 AM
DTF jumping in Derek’s throat in 1 2 3... ;D
Deviera, you and others have already been told to stop the baiting.  Knock it off.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: devieira73 on December 12, 2017, 09:43:37 AM
Why did you choose Jeff as a singer? Did you have other choices?

It was very important to us to have strong and powerful rock vocals. Jeff did a great job on Psychotic Symphony. We spent a lot of time with the lyrics and melody lines.

Weren't they only in the studio for a week??
I believe that was the time only for instrumental composition and recording the basic tracks, but the vocals and melodies were done after that.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: The Walrus on December 12, 2017, 09:44:29 AM
DTF jumping in Derek’s throat in 1 2 3... ;D
I think what he said was a valid opinion and said with kindness (finally!) and of course it applies to a multitude of singers.

I can't fucking stand Derek and I thought the interview and his responses were fine. Except the rubber comment. That's kind of weird.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: devieira73 on December 12, 2017, 09:45:48 AM
DTF jumping in Derek’s throat in 1 2 3... ;D
Deviera, you and others have already been told to stop the baiting.  Knock it off.
Sorry Bosk I apologize, but apparently Rumborak did that also or not?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: rumborak on December 12, 2017, 09:45:52 AM
I could not care either way and frankly find this mostly just hiliarously entertaining but ... come on, of course this was another jab at James by Derek.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on December 12, 2017, 09:46:38 AM
Pretty short on the answers and ignores some of the questions  :(
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: The Walrus on December 12, 2017, 09:51:48 AM
I don't think it's fair to immediately link that comment to James. I LOVE James and I'm still critical of his voice. And there are quite frankly lots of singers who sing in the high register who just can't deliver the goods live and it gets worse as they get older because they insist on keeping the songs with stupidly high vocals in there. Not many guys in rock who can really knock it out of the park live with high vocals.

But, there isn't anything in that statement that immediately links to Dream Theater or James. Hell, he doesn't even define a genre he's talking about there. Frankly he's right. A great singer, live, does extraordinary things for a band. Nobody enjoys listening to guys struggle to sing their own songs, excuses about age and touring be damned.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: devieira73 on December 12, 2017, 09:55:05 AM
Yes, it’s very rare a Glenn Hughes case. Anyway, I guess maybe JSS recorded SoA in a comfortably range thinking not only today but also for years in the future.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Sycsa on December 12, 2017, 10:21:38 AM
of course this was another jab at James by Derek.
Well, that would never hold up in court, since what Derek said applies to about 20-30% of all the singers out there, but given his track record, I’m also positive that he had James in mind. Even if he hadn’t explicitly set out to take a jab a James, he sure as hell gladly accepted it as collateral damage.

If Derek were a classy guy, he’d make the effort to avoid any ambiguity, and phrase it so.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Madman Shepherd on December 12, 2017, 10:33:30 AM
We spent a lot of time with the lyrics and melody lines. He will be able to reproduce his vocal performance live at ease because we wrote within his vocal range. There is nothing worse than going to see a band that you like, and the singer sounds like he is dying up there struggling to hit the notes.

 :corn

It was sort of an insult to Jeff as well. Also, to Geddy Lee, Geoff Tate and any other singer over the age of 35.

Even Bob Seger whom I saw a few months ago. Old Time Rock n Roll was sung in a lower register. I'm sure most people would rather it sounded like the original recording but they were having the time of their lives.

Should he have sung it in a lower register on the record because 40 years later he would have to modify it?

Contrary to what Derek said, I think limiting yourself in the studio is worse than seeing a singer struggle live which isn't preferable either. I would take a struggling singer that produced a masterpiece recording than a very unexciting recorded vocal performance. I would say Jeff's vocal performance on the SoA album is largely unexciting with a few kickass moments.

Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Mosh on December 12, 2017, 11:05:56 AM
I agree with Derek. Knowing the singer’s limitations and writing to accommodate them is just good songwriting. I can understand a singer struggling to sing their old material but when it’s recent stuff (which I think is what Derek was mostly referring to since the question was about JSS) it’s harder to excuse.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: MirrorMask on December 12, 2017, 11:38:42 AM
I agree with Derek. Knowing the singer’s limitations and writing to accommodate them is just good songwriting. I can understand a singer struggling to sing their old material but when it’s recent stuff (which I think is what Derek was mostly referring to since the question was about JSS) it’s harder to excuse.

Well, gotta agree with that.

On the other hand I agree also with the Sheperd about how singers shouldn't limitate themselves because in 40 years they won't have the range anymore, but since the question was about Jeff Scott Soto who is 50 anyway, I don't think at 90 he'll worry about singing God of the Sun.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bill1971 on December 12, 2017, 11:43:50 AM
I have not exactly been pro Derek but I don't have a real problem on what he said about singers. These bands wrote and recorded their songs in their 20's sometimes so of course as they get older they will have to alter it. That is one advantage of starting a band when you're in your 50's you don't have to worry too much about how you will sound in 20 or 30 or even 10 years possibly.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Skeever on December 12, 2017, 12:04:27 PM
Derek is right in one sense, that a lot of voices in the genre are subpar, or were once good but have not held up.

That's still not an excuse for an album's worth of afterthought vocal melodies.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: mikeyd23 on December 12, 2017, 12:10:56 PM
Derek is right in one sense, that a lot of voices in the genre are subpar, or were once good but have not held up.

That's still not an excuse for an album's worth of afterthought vocal melodies.

That's kinda the trade off though right? Its something that has been discussed here a lot regarding DT. If you write vocal melodies in the studio that are easier for a singer to pull off live, you are basically limiting the singers range (in most cases). This often can lead to monotone vocals that don't have a lot of movement, aren't terribly dynamic, and tend to be forgettable.

On the flip side, you can do essentially what DT has done (for the most part) and continue to write pretty challenging parts in the studio for James. He tends to pretty much always deliver in the studio, which leads to a dynamic performance with lots of range and movement on the record, but he tends to then struggle with those tough sections live.

I'm not saying one way is right and another is wrong, just different approaches, that's all.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: rumborak on December 12, 2017, 12:30:01 PM
It's not that you're forcing the singer to choose from 2 notes. "Keeping in range" still means probably a solid 2 octaves or so. I think a lot of artists out there prove daily that good vocal melodies don't require 5 octaves.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: mikeyd23 on December 12, 2017, 01:04:01 PM
It's not that you're forcing the singer to choose from 2 notes. "Keeping in range" still means probably a solid 2 octaves or so. I think a lot of artists out there prove daily that good vocal melodies don't require 5 octaves.

Right, but in this specific instance, I'd say Jeff's performance suffered from being held to those constraints.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Mosh on December 12, 2017, 01:13:54 PM
Definitely. Whether or not Derek had a point JSS seemed underused.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: rumborak on December 12, 2017, 01:23:36 PM
Definitely not disagreeing on that front. JSS has a lot to offer, but went entirely underused. Or even badly used, like the beginning of Labyrinth.
I just don't think that range has much to do with it.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: the keyboard wizard on December 12, 2017, 01:29:08 PM
Pretty short on the answers and ignores some of the questions  :(
Exactly, that's why I don't like that much email interviews because in most cases, the interviewee doesn't not develop his answers. But it's not just Derek: every email interview I did had the same problem. Nothing beats a real "face to face" interview.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bill1971 on December 12, 2017, 02:43:25 PM
It's not that you're forcing the singer to choose from 2 notes. "Keeping in range" still means probably a solid 2 octaves or so. I think a lot of artists out there prove daily that good vocal melodies don't require 5 octaves.

Right, but in this specific instance, I'd say Jeff's performance suffered from being held to those constraints.

Yes agreed. JSS has a lot more range but went unused. It is like having a superstar basketball player but telling him to only play 20 minutes and don't hustle too much so they don't get hurt.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: mikeyd23 on December 12, 2017, 02:46:19 PM
Definitely not disagreeing on that front. JSS has a lot to offer, but went entirely underused. Or even badly used, like the beginning of Labyrinth.
I just don't think that range has much to do with it.

In general, I don't think range necessarily has to have much to do with it.

In particular, when looking at SOA and Jeff, I think not utilizing his range more definitely had a lot to do with my opinion of him being underused and not memorable. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on December 12, 2017, 07:12:30 PM
Pretty short on the answers and ignores some of the questions  :(
Exactly, that's why I don't like that much email interviews because in most cases, the interviewee doesn't not develop his answers. But it's not just Derek: every email interview I did had the same problem. Nothing beats a real "face to face" interview.

Sucks, wasn't meant to be insulting or anything either.  You had some good questions that went un answered.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: erwinrafael on December 13, 2017, 03:35:04 AM
We spent a lot of time with the lyrics and melody lines. He will be able to reproduce his vocal performance live at ease because we wrote within his vocal range. There is nothing worse than going to see a band that you like, and the singer sounds like he is dying up there struggling to hit the notes.

Well, it is written within JSS' current vocal range, all right. So much "within" that it doesn't even touch near the potential of what Jeff can still do. Doesn't even come close to Jeff's vocals in his recent solo album (https://open.spotify.com/track/3UZVqwrrBRq8HHwbdp3tCA) or in what he's doing now in TSO (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D9sswYdOWgI).

Come on, Derek. Don't sell Jeff Scott Soto short. He lost a lot of his range but he has a lot left in his tank (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z1QlaJ5AvPw) with that beautiful voice.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: goo-goo on December 13, 2017, 05:42:10 AM
Why did you choose Jeff as a singer? Did you have other choices?

It was very important to us to have strong and powerful rock vocals. Jeff did a great job on Psychotic Symphony. We spent a lot of time with the lyrics and melody lines.

Weren't they only in the studio for a week??

They only spent one week tracking and recording the basic tracks in the studio. Vocals were recorded later.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bill1971 on December 13, 2017, 12:25:34 PM
We spent a lot of time with the lyrics and melody lines. He will be able to reproduce his vocal performance live at ease because we wrote within his vocal range. There is nothing worse than going to see a band that you like, and the singer sounds like he is dying up there struggling to hit the notes.

Well, it is written within JSS' current vocal range, all right. So much "within" that it doesn't even touch near the potential of what Jeff can still do. Doesn't even come close to Jeff's vocals in his recent solo album (https://open.spotify.com/track/3UZVqwrrBRq8HHwbdp3tCA) or in what he's doing now in TSO (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D9sswYdOWgI).

Come on, Derek. Don't sell Jeff Scott Soto short. He lost a lot of his range but he has a lot left in his tank (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z1QlaJ5AvPw) with that beautiful voice.

Well he can sound bad there. Who the hell sees TSO anyhow?

Yes I am joking.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Madman Shepherd on December 13, 2017, 03:34:35 PM
So if Derek is all about faithfully reproducing music in a live setting, why did he use a string ensemble unless he is planning on taking them with for the tour? It's okay to alter some of the music but not the vocals?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: RodrigoAltaf on December 13, 2017, 05:30:14 PM
They're in the bill of the Hellfest Festival...oh man, Priest, Maiden, Megadeth, Alice in Chains... I'd love to go!
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Architeuthis on December 13, 2017, 07:46:53 PM
They're in the bill of the Hellfest Festival...oh man, Priest, Maiden, Megadeth, Alice in Chains... I'd love to go!
And Nightwish!
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Adami on December 13, 2017, 07:51:24 PM
They're in the bill of the Hellfest Festival...oh man, Priest, Maiden, Megadeth, Alice in Chains... I'd love to go!

Good choice for them! They need to stick to these types of gigs for now.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Stadler on December 14, 2017, 06:54:54 AM
It's not that you're forcing the singer to choose from 2 notes. "Keeping in range" still means probably a solid 2 octaves or so. I think a lot of artists out there prove daily that good vocal melodies don't require 5 octaves.

Right, but in this specific instance, I'd say Jeff's performance suffered from being held to those constraints.

Yes agreed. JSS has a lot more range but went unused. It is like having a superstar basketball player but telling him to only play 20 minutes and don't hustle too much so they don't get hurt.

This all assumes that "range" is the standard for determining effort.   I don't really see it that way.    Gene Simmons has a half octave range on his best day and he's got some killer - for the music - vocal performances.   Dave Roth has even less range, and - in studio - his performance on ADKOT was the highlight of the album (for me).  Geddy Lee and Robert Plant have significantly narrowed their ranges on recent records, and (especially Plant) have turned in stellar performances recently.    I'm less bugged by JSS's "range" on the record than his tone.   The entire record is plopped squarely in that mid-range area and so all the parts seem to be competing with each other.  There's no separation, no breathing room on that record.  AT.  ALL. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: mikeyd23 on December 14, 2017, 07:23:42 AM
It's not that you're forcing the singer to choose from 2 notes. "Keeping in range" still means probably a solid 2 octaves or so. I think a lot of artists out there prove daily that good vocal melodies don't require 5 octaves.

Right, but in this specific instance, I'd say Jeff's performance suffered from being held to those constraints.

Yes agreed. JSS has a lot more range but went unused. It is like having a superstar basketball player but telling him to only play 20 minutes and don't hustle too much so they don't get hurt.

This all assumes that "range" is the standard for determining effort.   I don't really see it that way.    Gene Simmons has a half octave range on his best day and he's got some killer - for the music - vocal performances.   Dave Roth has even less range, and - in studio - his performance on ADKOT was the highlight of the album (for me).  Geddy Lee and Robert Plant have significantly narrowed their ranges on recent records, and (especially Plant) have turned in stellar performances recently.    I'm less bugged by JSS's "range" on the record than his tone.   The entire record is plopped squarely in that mid-range area and so all the parts seem to be competing with each other.  There's no separation, no breathing room on that record.  AT.  ALL.

I, in no way, would assume that.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bill1971 on December 14, 2017, 08:18:21 AM
It's not that you're forcing the singer to choose from 2 notes. "Keeping in range" still means probably a solid 2 octaves or so. I think a lot of artists out there prove daily that good vocal melodies don't require 5 octaves.

Right, but in this specific instance, I'd say Jeff's performance suffered from being held to those constraints.

Yes agreed. JSS has a lot more range but went unused. It is like having a superstar basketball player but telling him to only play 20 minutes and don't hustle too much so they don't get hurt.

This all assumes that "range" is the standard for determining effort.   I don't really see it that way.    Gene Simmons has a half octave range on his best day and he's got some killer - for the music - vocal performances.   Dave Roth has even less range, and - in studio - his performance on ADKOT was the highlight of the album (for me).  Geddy Lee and Robert Plant have significantly narrowed their ranges on recent records, and (especially Plant) have turned in stellar performances recently.    I'm less bugged by JSS's "range" on the record than his tone.   The entire record is plopped squarely in that mid-range area and so all the parts seem to be competing with each other.  There's no separation, no breathing room on that record.  AT.  ALL.

I, in no way, would assume that.

That was not my intent to say that range is the standard. Anyhow, just a loose analogy so I can see it being interpreted many ways.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bill1971 on December 14, 2017, 08:19:26 AM
So if Derek is all about faithfully reproducing music in a live setting, why did he use a string ensemble unless he is planning on taking them with for the tour? It's okay to alter some of the music but not the vocals?

Do not criticize the master!! You shall be harshly judged.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on December 14, 2017, 09:26:43 AM
I think fans are more harsh against piped in vocals than piped in symphonic elements.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: MirrorMask on December 14, 2017, 09:29:19 AM
I think fans are more harsh against piped in vocals than piped in symphonic elements.

Also, while a fan could go "Why did the singer sang so high in the studio since he can't do it live?", only the most stubborn and extremist purist would say  "Why it's just the main band on stage and not the 20 guest musicians used to embellish the arrangements?"
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ganpondorodf on December 14, 2017, 10:18:17 AM
I think Stadler is really onto something with that mid-range comment. The album just sounds so dull and repetitive so that observation makes a lot of sense to me
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: rumborak on December 14, 2017, 11:05:58 AM
In my book it all comes down to the same thing, which is the time they spent on it. A lot of the aspects on the album feel improvised, first-take. That's I believe why they even ended up doing the same melody twice in two separate songs; they simply didn't spend enough time on it to notice they had accidentally plugged in the same melody again.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on December 14, 2017, 11:47:49 AM
I think Stadler is really onto something with that mid-range comment. The album just sounds so dull and repetitive so that observation makes a lot of sense to me

I agree with that as well, JSS's mid range same vocals throughout the album is what holds the album back in terms of performance

In my book it all comes down to the same thing, which is the time they spent on it. A lot of the aspects on the album feel improvised, first-take. That's I believe why they even ended up doing the same melody twice in two separate songs; they simply didn't spend enough time on it to notice they had accidentally plugged in the same melody again.

as well as this in terms of songwriting.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ErHaO on December 14, 2017, 12:28:30 PM
I like JSS's vocals here, but agree he is in the same "mode" throughout most of the album. Not only in tone, but also in terms of other things that make a performance more "soulful" (type of melodies, rythm, pronounciation/emphasization, intensity etc.). He sounds the same on his latest solo album, but frequently has little details in his singing that makes the overall performance much livelier.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: RodrigoAltaf on December 15, 2017, 03:45:17 PM
Prog Report's list of best albums of 2017:

https://progreport.com/new-best-prog-albums-of-2017/
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bill1971 on December 15, 2017, 04:38:08 PM
Prog Report's list of best albums of 2017:

https://progreport.com/new-best-prog-albums-of-2017/

I will have to check out Big Big Train – Grimspound. I love Pain of Salvation – In the Passing Light of Day and Steven Wilson – To The Bone. Both surprised me, I kind of felt like I was over both of them but these are both amazing breaths of fresh air.

 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: The Walrus on December 18, 2017, 10:55:29 AM
SCENE: A cold wind from the north blows across a snowy plain, crashing against the walls of an aged cabin. The front door creaks open with a strong gust. On the winds of winter, scraps of a newspaper article blow into the dusty living room of a once lively thread, now cold with the memories of scuttlebutt and Internet arguments:

(https://i64.tinypic.com/2afj0k5.jpg)
(https://oi63.tinypic.com/314blg8.jpg)

SCENE: With only a little trouble, Shitstirinian lights the fireplace and pours himself a glass of barrel-aged whiskey as he reclines into the fancy rocking chair. Creaking rhythmically upon the bare wooden floor, Shitsirinian smiles. "My plan for world domination is only beginning." CAMERA PANS UP, FADE-OUT WITH SUBDUED LAUGHTER
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Ben_Jamin on December 18, 2017, 11:00:14 AM
He must be referring to Yngwie haha.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: DragonAttack on December 18, 2017, 12:13:17 PM
Tropical breezes warm hearts and souls on the deck during the 'Cruise To The Edge' tour.  After landfall, the minstrels make their way along the continental coast.  A cold wind from the north blows across a snowy interstate, crashing against the walls of swerving RV. The front door creaks open with a strong gust.  On the winds of winter, scraps of a McDonald's wrapper blow out of the cramped sleeping quarters of a once upbeat band, now cold after travelling all night from Buffalo to Battle Creek in February,..... wondering just WTF did they get themselves into.

Flip some burgers, Derek, that will warm you that day.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: The Walrus on December 18, 2017, 12:15:36 PM
Tropical breezes warm hearts and souls on the deck during the 'Cruise To The Edge' tour.  After landfall, the minstrels make their way along the continental coast.  A cold wind from the north blows across a snowy interstate, crashing against the walls of swerving RV. The front door creaks open with a strong gust.  On the winds of winter, scraps of a McDonald's wrapper blow out of the cramped sleeping quarters of a once upbeat band, now cold after travelling all night from Buffalo to Battle Creek in February,..... wondering just WTF did they get themselves into.

Flip some burgers, Derek, that will warm you that day.

 :lol :lol
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Cool Chris on December 18, 2017, 12:31:53 PM
TAC, please... allow me....

Who the hell is Joe Bosso?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: TAC on December 18, 2017, 12:33:37 PM
TAC, please... allow me....

Who the hell is Joe Bosso?

Looks like the guitarist for The Poodles. Don't know who The Poodles are, just as bl5150 or Wolfking.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Dave_Manchester on December 18, 2017, 12:34:52 PM
"I know a really guilty band of this"

That's some Trumpist syntax right there.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Sycsa on December 18, 2017, 01:44:46 PM
"I know a really guilty band of this"

That's some Trumpist syntax right there.
Yeah, Derek made it pretty obvious in the past few months that, besides being petty and unfunny, he's not particularly smart either. I guess these all go hand in hand. But hey, at least he's ripped and got sick-ass chops with octopus pedigree. Him & Mike should just cut their losses already.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bill1971 on December 18, 2017, 02:26:07 PM
"I know a really guilty band of this"

That's some Trumpist syntax right there.
Yeah, Derek made it pretty obvious in the past few months that, besides being petty and unfunny, he's not particularly smart either. I guess these all go hand in hand. But hey, at least he's ripped and got sick-ass chops with octopus pedigree. Him & Mike should just cut their losses already.

What do you mean he's not funny. He is very witty. It is very hard to make the same jokes about apps and cheese over and over and over again







and over and over....
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Schurftkut on December 20, 2017, 03:35:07 PM
There's this youtube reaction video guy MP retweeted that just posted this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MOsIq_wftms

He did a popular Dream Theater marathon praising MP etc, got mentioned by MP,  and now he comes to post-MP era DT he's posting in a totally different style and calling everything bad  :rollin
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: The Walrus on December 20, 2017, 03:41:04 PM
I don't see that retweeted on Mike's Twitter but it wouldn't surprise me after he pushed to get people to like the SoA FB and less than 1500 people actually did. And they're still not at 40k likes. But at least they'll have cool socks. They better be warm, for playing drafty sheds in Michigan  :lol :lol
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: DarkLord_Lalinc on December 20, 2017, 04:10:16 PM
SCENE: A cold wind from the north blows across a snowy plain, crashing against the walls of an aged cabin. The front door creaks open with a strong gust. On the winds of winter, scraps of a newspaper article blow into the dusty living room of a once lively thread, now cold with the memories of scuttlebutt and Internet arguments:

(https://i64.tinypic.com/2afj0k5.jpg)
(https://oi63.tinypic.com/314blg8.jpg)

SCENE: With only a little trouble, Shitstirinian lights the fireplace and pours himself a glass of barrel-aged whiskey as he reclines into the fancy rocking chair. Creaking rhythmically upon the bare wooden floor, Shitsirinian smiles. "My plan for world domination is only beginning." CAMERA PANS UP, FADE-OUT WITH SUBDUED LAUGHTER

My kingdom for someone who answers something along the lines of 'Planet X?'.

Nothing against Planet X but those two, even if they didn't want to (which of course they DID want to), were a big part of that 'extremely technical' band of music the post criticizes so much. Heck, MP is 'haha-ing' his life's big project. Are we looking too much into this? If this was an isolated case probably that would be the case, but there's a list of 15+ pretty blatant attacks towards DT or the individual members of the band that add up to a big pile of stinking public persona. 'But...DarkLol! Maybe they're not talking about Dream Theater!' 85% sure they are, given all of their 'Del Fluvio wit' has revolved around negative comments towards DT, its music and its members. Stop with the double standards, please.

Ah, things were much simpler before Facebook took over the world.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ganpondorodf on December 20, 2017, 04:18:13 PM
I think the worst thing is that Derek apparently 'liked' his own comment
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: shadystraz360 on December 21, 2017, 12:42:27 AM
Just popped in as i havent been on this thread for a while....
Wondered what everyone has been up to....
And a while ago I noticed that someone got kicked out of my old JLB thread for their insulting comments towards JLB.... And yet people here are freely bashing Mike & Derek simultainiously....
Is that allowed or is this reserved for hardcore DT fans only?

Just a thought as an impartial observer..
As i have never insutled anyone be it past or present member i find it confusing that its allowed here on this thread. I thought Bosk mentioned that he doesnt allow this kind of thing to go on within the forum?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: SystematicThought on December 21, 2017, 12:58:54 AM
If you’re referring to Loki getting kicked out of your thread, I don’t think anyone in this thread as approached his level of bashing.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: IDontNotDoThings on December 21, 2017, 01:50:26 AM
Wait, can you get exclusively banned from specific threads? I didn't know that...  :justjen
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: shadystraz360 on December 21, 2017, 01:57:53 AM
If you’re referring to Loki getting kicked out of your thread, I don’t think anyone in this thread as approached his level of bashing.
It was "no" something. Flitter, Flatter.... who knows.
Just he made a standard comment that was removed and he hasnt commented since... so i can only presume he aint here no more...

I was only having a flick through the last load of pages and looked like many have their own levels of what is acceptable.

No biggie.... just noticing
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: shadystraz360 on December 21, 2017, 01:58:54 AM
Wait, can you get exclusively banned from specific threads? I didn't know that...  :justjen

No im saying he made a comment on a thread i did ages ago.. comment was removed and he hasnt been seen since. Logical conclusion, he isnt in the forum anymore....
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: jcmoorehead on December 21, 2017, 02:30:27 AM
Just popped in as i havent been on this thread for a while....
Wondered what everyone has been up to....
And a while ago I noticed that someone got kicked out of my old JLB thread for their insulting comments towards JLB.... And yet people here are freely bashing Mike & Derek simultainiously....
Is that allowed or is this reserved for hardcore DT fans only?

Just a thought as an impartial observer..
As i have never insutled anyone be it past or present member i find it confusing that its allowed here on this thread. I thought Bosk mentioned that he doesnt allow this kind of thing to go on within the forum?

I think one of the main differences is that whilst yes there is some 'bashing' of Sherinian/Portnoy going on here it's mostly responding and calling out what those two are doing. It makes it a bit fair of fair game in that sense.

I haven't read the other thread but most people just seem to attack JLB as a default and sometimes the insults get quite bad. If JLB was in interviews and social media going "HAHA SONS OF APOLLO? MORE LIKE SONGS OF UR-ANUS AMIRITE HAHA EL-CANUCKIAN-TIM-HORTONS WIT AMIRITE?" then I think maybe it'd be fair enough to call him out on that.

---

As far as Sherinian/Portnoy and their continued shots at DT go, everytime I see something from them it just makes me glad I didn't pick up the album. I do usually try to ignore what sort of person an artist is when it comes to buying their music but in this case I just got fed up of the pair of them. I think the last straw for me really was them directing people to have a go at the fan who posted a review that gave it a 7/10 or some similar score.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: The Walrus on December 21, 2017, 06:26:45 AM
Straz, bosk has addressed that multiple times already. And Loki was banned for outright flaming JLB
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ProfessorPeart on December 21, 2017, 07:29:24 AM
All the 'hate' doesn't seem to be affecting the Portnoy/Petrucci families relationship.

https://twitter.com/MikePortnoy/status/943631908088504320
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: devieira73 on December 21, 2017, 07:33:40 AM
Truly beautiful  :heart
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: gzarruk on December 21, 2017, 07:40:07 AM
All the 'hate' doesn't seem to be affecting the Portnoy/Petrucci families relationship.

https://twitter.com/MikePortnoy/status/943631908088504320

JP’s son is starting to grow the same beard as his father. Man, their beard game is strong :lol
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: The Walrus on December 21, 2017, 07:42:48 AM
Which one is Petrucci's daughter, and who is the other girl? I recognize Max, Melody, and JP's son (that beard!).
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: gzarruk on December 21, 2017, 07:46:42 AM
Which one is Petrucci's daughter, and who is the other girl? I recognize Max, Melody, and JP's son (that beard!).

Both are Petrucci’s daughters ;D
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: The Walrus on December 21, 2017, 07:53:46 AM
Which one is Petrucci's daughter, and who is the other girl? I recognize Max, Melody, and JP's son (that beard!).

Both are Petrucci’s daughters ;D

Jeeze! I had no idea.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Hourglass Prison on December 21, 2017, 08:35:29 AM
Which one is Petrucci's daughter, and who is the other girl? I recognize Max, Melody, and JP's son (that beard!).

Both are Petrucci’s daughters ;D

Jeeze! I had no idea.

Well, if you were a TRUE fan...
 :biggrin:   ;)
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: The Walrus on December 21, 2017, 10:38:09 AM
Updating this to give some insight into No Filter Loki, because I had a hunch - and my hunch turned out to be right, and I think some might find this interesting:

https://oi67.tinypic.com/104mdue.jpg
https://www.facebook.com/marc.walsh1

This is No Filter Loki. This guy is an INSANE MP/Derek fanboy. Regularly comments on both their Twitter feeds, regularly calls JLB "the most arrogant bastard alive" among other pretty insulting things. So, that's your mystery solved: no wonder he was so cantankerous. He once talked about receiving direct messages from Derek himself (this was right before he registered) - I wouldn't be surprised if Derek quite literally asked him to register here and "stir up shit."

EDIT: Anyway just wanted to shed some light onto that. I believe straz brought up the other day about someone being 'shut down' as soon as they said a negative thing about JLB, and that kind of led me to this.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: MirrorMask on December 21, 2017, 11:48:34 AM
All the 'hate' doesn't seem to be affecting the Portnoy/Petrucci families relationship.

https://twitter.com/MikePortnoy/status/943631908088504320

Well, isn't this wonderful and definitively more important than all our little discussions here (and Derek comments), in the end?  :hat
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Orbert on December 21, 2017, 01:38:52 PM
Absolutely.  I think it's cool that MP and JP and their families are still close.  With the way the split went down, and some of the stuff that's happened since, it could easily not be the case.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: axeman90210 on December 21, 2017, 02:51:16 PM
Yeah, it made me really happy when MP mentioned that JP's family was at the NYC Shattered Fortress show.


I've spun the SoA album a few times and I've come around on most of it. I still don't like the vocals at the beginning of Labyrinth, but by and large I like the album (and particularly what Bumblefoot and JSS bring to the table). The one exception is Opus Maximus, which I pretty much can't stand. May well just be deleting that song off my iPod soon enough, as I always just jump back to the beginning after Divine Addiction.


Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: noxon on December 21, 2017, 05:40:35 PM
Updating this to give some insight into No Filter Loki


I said somewhere else that I had an inkling as to whom it was - and I was right.

Nah, it's not Derek. But it's a fanboy for sure, probably close to Derek. Probably gotten close through sucking up, and is now running around the internet trolling to "protect his dear friend". I think I've seen him on the fan club facebook page too... If it is who I think it is, he runs a group with Straz as an "unofficial SoA fan club"...

https://www.facebook.com/groups/1999196433430247/

See who's the admins there? It's our two "friends" who just HAPPENED to start attacking James and being protective of SoA on here at the same time... And Straz even saying he had no clue as to who "No Filter Loki" was:
Whoever this Loki guy is, whether or not he replies, i couldnt care less..

Straz - you got some splainin to do... :P
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Schurftkut on December 21, 2017, 06:03:21 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MOsIq_wftms

how is this guy not sponsored by MP/DS ???? He had good reviews until MP retweeted him and post -MP DT reviews started.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Lethean on December 21, 2017, 06:10:14 PM
I had a feeling they knew each other and both lived under the bridge. :)
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bosk1 on December 21, 2017, 07:24:19 PM
Well, yes.  And https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=51439.msg2389367#msg2389367
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: SystematicThought on December 21, 2017, 08:50:44 PM
There's this youtube reaction video guy MP retweeted that just posted this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MOsIq_wftms

He did a popular Dream Theater marathon praising MP etc, got mentioned by MP,  and now he comes to post-MP era DT he's posting in a totally different style and calling everything bad  :rollin
Mike commented on the last video and said he found it amusing that he didn't like the last three albums (despite the fact that they didn't get proper videos). I called him out on it and said that it was unnecessary, and he said that it wasn't a swipe at the band, just amusing irony, apparently.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: shadystraz360 on December 22, 2017, 12:55:36 AM
I never attacked JLB at all... i only expressed a concern and looked for other opinions from fans, but never said anything negative about JLB.., this guy popped up out of nowhere. Plus i have been in this forum for some years now, his name only appeared out of the blue. As i saw from how many posts he had made.. being a short few.
You can see from my history in my posts that i have been all over. As for being protective, i have made snide comments on a couple of places, not insulting but snide. Dont know if they are still around though..
I have always been a fan of DT and that aint gonna stop... regardless of what Derek & Mike say or do i will always continue to love and enjoy DT's music. Thats why im in this forum. If someone came here purposly to attack then there is something wrong with them... im just here to enjoy DT. Hell i even like Dragonforce,  :D :D
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: shadystraz360 on December 22, 2017, 02:02:50 AM
I need to make a few things clear....
Years ago i sent questions to Derek about his history in DT. And he made a few video responses. I made assumptions that i was an associate because of this. And in turn i was informed by his manegment that i "do not work with him". I faced serious backlash because of this.... since then i have remained away from contact. I still share vids but i cannot make it appear i work alongside. Because i dont. That was just presumtious on my part as a fan. And young...
As for this Loki guy, i did not know what was going on as i dont know them either. I was an Admin, but if it turns out this person is the same, then i apologise as im unaware. If iwas then i would have acted sooner... And i have left that group to prove im not in "association" with this person..... as this is not the case.. the extenct of our personal contact would have been me offering to help. And him saying "sure".
I never came here to bad mouth anyone or attack past or present members. Im just a simple fan of all 4 era's of DT. Yes i have opinions just like any other fan and every now and then i like to ask questions and gather thoughts. But that is all i am. A fan.... if i was some DT hating gunslinger then i wouldnt bother with this comment. I would have run awag.. but im not and thats why im hoping i can continue as a fan.
I will still make interesting polls and ask questions. But im just a longtime fan....
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: shadystraz360 on December 22, 2017, 02:03:24 AM
I need to make a few things clear....
Years ago i sent questions to Derek from those within this forum about his history in DT. And he made a few video responses. I made assumptions that i was an associate because of this. And in turn i was informed by his manegment that i "do not work with him". I faced serious backlash because of this.... since then i have remained away from contact. I still share vids but i cannot make it appear i work alongside. Because i dont. That was just presumtious on my part as a fan. And young...
As for this Loki guy, i did not know what was going on as i dont know them either. I was an Admin, but if it turns out this person is the same, then i apologise as im unaware. If iwas then i would have acted sooner... And i have left that group to prove im not in "association" with this person..... as this is not the case.. the extenct of our personal contact would have been me offering to help. And him saying "sure".
I never came here to bad mouth anyone or attack past or present members. Im just a simple fan of all 4 era's of DT. Yes i have opinions just like any other fan and every now and then i like to ask questions and gather thoughts. But that is all i am. A fan.... if i was some DT hating gunslinger then i wouldnt bother with this comment. I would have run awag.. but im not and thats why im hoping i can continue as a fan.
I will still make interesting polls and ask questions. But im just a longtime fan....
EDIT: Sorry this stupid phone posted twice.. the questions were asked in this forum and i forwarded them over to Derek...
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: noxon on December 22, 2017, 03:43:58 AM
I’m sorry you had that experience, and i’m glad you cleared up the misunderstandings. But this also does highlight a difference of approach here. See, we as fans of dream theater who are doing work on our own accord - bosk1 as the owner of this forum and me as the owner of the DT.club - we do say we work with DT. And DT and their management appreciates it and encourages it. Even though we don’t work -for- DT. I would also say I’ve worked with MP, CD and KM - AS i have done stuff with them - but I don’t work for them. I don’t pretend to speak for them or that I can influence them in any way.

The fact that Derek’s mgmt treated you like that speaks volumes of the arrogance in his organization - and it’s the same arrogance we’re actually criticizing him for here. If nothing else they could’ve just said ‘please clarify that you’re an associate by being a fan doing some free fan work for him’.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: shadystraz360 on December 22, 2017, 05:05:15 AM
I’m sorry you had that experience, and i’m glad you cleared up the misunderstandings. But this also does highlight a difference of approach here. See, we as fans of dream theater who are doing work on our own accord - bosk1 as the owner of this forum and me as the owner of the DT.club - we do say we work with DT. And DT and their management appreciates it and encourages it. Even though we don’t work -for- DT. I would also say I’ve worked with MP, CD and KM - AS i have done stuff with them - but I don’t work for them. I don’t pretend to speak for them or that I can influence them in any way.

The fact that Derek’s mgmt treated you like that speaks volumes of the arrogance in his organization - and it’s the same arrogance we’re actually criticizing him for here. If nothing else they could’ve just said ‘please clarify that you’re an associate by being a fan doing some free fan work for him’.
Thats the thing...
It wasnt just here. I mistakenly did it everywhere. When i was in a synth facebook group, i had arguments with other members over stupid things and i kept proclaiming "im working with Derek".... as you can imagine i quickly didnt become popular. Its all sorted and i havent got on the wrong side of them since. I do tend to jump head first into a swimming pool, and yet cant swim
I agree i was going too far. But i probebly did need a kick up the backside to make me realise that what i was doing wasnt helping myself... i dont think the mgmt treated me unfairly, i would rather someone be direct with me than try tk sugar coat it...
But my concern is i dont want people thinking im in league with someone negative. I dont know who is behind the screen. Like i said, i was just helping out a group. I wasnt there to "join forces" with anyone. Hence my departure...

I hope other members here can forgive the fact i was unaware, and i just wanna move forward and enjoy DT & SoA. Rock On
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Nekov on December 22, 2017, 05:17:25 AM
You should also consider that your nickname starts with shady which probably doesn't help either  :P. But it's good that you were able to sort that out.  :tup
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: shadystraz360 on December 22, 2017, 06:07:45 AM
You should also consider that your nickname starts with shady which probably doesn't help either  :P. But it's good that you were able to sort that out.  :tup
Hahahaha. My nickname at work was "Shades"... because  always wearing sunglasses...
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: RodrigoAltaf on December 22, 2017, 12:43:27 PM
SOA just confirmed for Wacken!
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: JayOctavarium on December 22, 2017, 02:20:21 PM
That's totes Wack, yo!
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: MirrorMask on December 22, 2017, 03:14:04 PM
SOA just confirmed for Wacken!

Best gig they could ever get! Wacken is the metalheads' Mecca.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ytserush on December 22, 2017, 05:06:37 PM
All the 'hate' doesn't seem to be affecting the Portnoy/Petrucci families relationship.

https://twitter.com/MikePortnoy/status/943631908088504320

Reality. What a concept.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: RodrigoAltaf on December 25, 2017, 02:41:01 PM
Drum can video of Labyrinth:

https://youtu.be/9NgVO9y9i2w
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Adami on December 25, 2017, 03:00:07 PM
Drum can video of Labyrinth:

https://youtu.be/9NgVO9y9i2w

Good song, minus the intro vocals. Fun to watch him play. Say what you want about MP, dude always makes me want to go play drums (sadly I can't at the moment, but still).
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: shadystraz360 on December 26, 2017, 02:34:13 AM
Drum can video of Labyrinth:

https://youtu.be/9NgVO9y9i2w

Watched this... he glides his way through. Looks like his sticks bend at his speed haha
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: DTA on December 26, 2017, 05:34:13 AM
Good video, but I’d really like to see him develop his playing more and actually create unique parts again. He resorts to the same types of beats and tricks throughout every single piece of music he plays on nowadays and it really makes everything sound very homogeneous. I know this won’t happen simply because he’s in the pump and dump phase of his musical career, but I really miss his creativity on the kit. I listened to 6 Degrees for the first time in awhile recently and was reminded just how awesome his parts were back then and how he utilized so much of the kit to create interesting sections.

On a different note, does anyone know what those cymbals are that are upside down on his crashes to the left and right?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: RodrigoAltaf on December 26, 2017, 08:09:47 AM
Good video, but I’d really like to see him develop his playing more and actually create unique parts again. He resorts to the same types of beats and tricks throughout every single piece of music he plays on nowadays and it really makes everything sound very homogeneous. I know this won’t happen simply because he’s in the pump and dump phase of his musical career, but I really miss his creativity on the kit. I listened to 6 Degrees for the first time in awhile recently and was reminded just how awesome his parts were back then and how he utilized so much of the kit to create interesting sections.

On a different note, does anyone know what those cymbals are that are upside down on his crashes to the left and right?

I'm still in doubt whether to consider him being repetitive or having created his signature sound. Eddie Van Halen is a genius, and hasn't created anything new for two decades.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: The Walrus on December 26, 2017, 08:43:40 AM
According to Mike, no drum cam DVD for this album. He says it's cause he didn't have "final take" footage but does anyone find that weird given all the other footage, and he has it seems 2 drum cam videos from this album already? Wonder if it's because of the poor sales of the album
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: MinistroRaven on December 26, 2017, 09:00:30 AM
Wonder if it's because of the poor sales of the album

I guess this is the primary reason. The guy always records everything, seems weird that this time around he doesnt has the “final take”.

I know some completists would love to have this even if the album wasnt their thing like myself
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bosk1 on December 26, 2017, 09:30:27 AM
Wonder if it's because of the poor sales of the album

I guess this is the primary reason.

That is a really strange assumption to make.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: The Walrus on December 26, 2017, 09:33:16 AM
Wonder if it's because of the poor sales of the album

I guess this is the primary reason.

That is a really strange assumption to make.

Only reason I floated it was because it sold far worse than any of his other post-DT projects, isn't generating much buzz, and he's *always* had drum DVDs ready to go for DT and post-DT projects. Plus having 2 of the songs released with drum cam footage makes me a bit skeptical. Just strikes me as something MP wouldn't willingly do, personally, but I admit I could be completely wrong! I know a number of fans were really looking forward to it. EDIT: Below me MS makes a great point about them not being profitable.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Madman Shepherd on December 26, 2017, 09:33:34 AM
Maybe not because the album sales are poor but I wonder how financially rewarding doing drum cam vids are at all.  I doubt he ever made that much from them but still if it isn't making a neat profit than maybe it just isn't worth it. 

It also may be that the actual recording was so fast that he didn't have time to set it all up.

Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: MinistroRaven on December 26, 2017, 12:03:34 PM
Wonder if it's because of the poor sales of the album

I guess this is the primary reason.

That is a really strange assumption to make.

Why?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bosk1 on December 26, 2017, 12:20:17 PM
Wonder if it's because of the poor sales of the album

I guess this is the primary reason.

That is a really strange assumption to make.

Why?

Because (1) there is no evidence and has been no suggestion by anyone related to the band that that is the reason, so your suggestion is completely out of the blue; and (2) there is no obvious (or inobvious) connection between album sales and Mike's drum cam videos, so there is no reason to believe that one influenced the other.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: gmillerdrake on December 26, 2017, 02:37:03 PM
Say what you want about MP, dude always makes me want to go play drums

Supremely talented and just an utter blast to witness play drums. When I saw him last January in StL with Neal Morse playing Similitude of a Dream it's near impossible not to want to just only watch HIM play the entire time.....he's such an amazing drummer.

He just needs some work on his social game and maybe humble himself every now and then.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: gmillerdrake on December 26, 2017, 02:40:46 PM
I listened to 6 Degrees for the first time in awhile recently and was reminded just how awesome his parts were

I personally consider 'Blind Faith' to be the single "best" song he's ever drummed. Sure, there are many other songs that I suppose are more technical or 'difficult' to play....but 'Blind Faith' is a perfect combination of every aspect of MP in my opinion.
 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: mikeyd23 on December 26, 2017, 03:00:36 PM
I listened to 6 Degrees for the first time in awhile recently and was reminded just how awesome his parts were

I personally consider 'Blind Faith' to be the single "best" song he's ever drummed. Sure, there are many other songs that I suppose are more technical or 'difficult' to play....but 'Blind Faith' is a perfect combination of every aspect of MP in my opinion.

Good call Gary, I still consider SDOIT to be MP’s last great drumming record where it still felt like he was pushing the boundaries of his playing. And Blind Faith is the perfect example of that, might be my favorite MP performance and my favorite JR performance as well.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: gmillerdrake on December 26, 2017, 03:23:18 PM
I listened to 6 Degrees for the first time in awhile recently and was reminded just how awesome his parts were

I personally consider 'Blind Faith' to be the single "best" song he's ever drummed. Sure, there are many other songs that I suppose are more technical or 'difficult' to play....but 'Blind Faith' is a perfect combination of every aspect of MP in my opinion.

Good call Gary, I still consider SDOIT to be MP’s last great drumming record where it still felt like he was pushing the boundaries of his playing. And Blind Faith is the perfect example of that, might be my favorite MP performance and my favorite JR performance as well.

I honestly think every member shines in that song....but I agree that how JR showcases himself in that song is awesome as well.

It's just a really beautiful song all around, lyrically as well.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: DTA on December 26, 2017, 03:30:02 PM
I listened to 6 Degrees for the first time in awhile recently and was reminded just how awesome his parts were

I personally consider 'Blind Faith' to be the single "best" song he's ever drummed. Sure, there are many other songs that I suppose are more technical or 'difficult' to play....but 'Blind Faith' is a perfect combination of every aspect of MP in my opinion.

Good call Gary, I still consider SDOIT to be MP’s last great drumming record where it still felt like he was pushing the boundaries of his playing. And Blind Faith is the perfect example of that, might be my favorite MP performance and my favorite JR performance as well.

I'd agree with that. 6DOIT was his best album drum wise and he has gradually got less and less innovative since. Blind Faith has an amazing drum part, but his peak is The Great Debate IMO. The intro to that song alone is more creative than the entire BC&SL album's drum part.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bobs23 on December 26, 2017, 04:35:14 PM
Wonder if it's because of the poor sales of the album

I guess this is the primary reason.

That is a really strange assumption to make.

Why?

Because (1) there is no evidence and has been no suggestion by anyone related to the band that that is the reason, so your suggestion is completely out of the blue; and (2) there is no obvious (or inobvious) connection between album sales and Mike's drum cam videos, so there is no reason to believe that one influenced the other.

I edited this drumcam along with many prior to this one. MP is telling the truth. For what ever reason, on 2 of the tracks there are a few holes in the final assembly of the tracks. I gave him the file numbers that appeared to be missing. I do know that he has a lot going on right now and either didn't have the files or didn't have the time to search for them. It had absolutely nothing to do with album sales.
In respect to the distribution we had planned on doing an ITunes type of release with no physical copies being produced. He felt that with so many people viewing music on portable devices that it made sense to distribute in this fashion going forward.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: The Walrus on December 26, 2017, 05:19:23 PM
Wonder if it's because of the poor sales of the album

I guess this is the primary reason.

That is a really strange assumption to make.

Why?

Because (1) there is no evidence and has been no suggestion by anyone related to the band that that is the reason, so your suggestion is completely out of the blue; and (2) there is no obvious (or inobvious) connection between album sales and Mike's drum cam videos, so there is no reason to believe that one influenced the other.

I edited this drumcam along with many prior to this one. MP is telling the truth. For what ever reason, on 2 of the tracks there are a few holes in the final assembly of the tracks. I gave him the file numbers that appeared to be missing. I do know that he has a lot going on right now and either didn't have the files or didn't have the time to search for them. It had absolutely nothing to do with album sales.
In respect to the distribution we had planned on doing an ITunes type of release with no physical copies being produced. He felt that with so many people viewing music on portable devices that it made sense to distribute in this fashion going forward.

That's cool. Thanks for clearing that up bob.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Madman Shepherd on December 26, 2017, 05:42:16 PM
I listened to 6 Degrees for the first time in awhile recently and was reminded just how awesome his parts were

I personally consider 'Blind Faith' to be the single "best" song he's ever drummed. Sure, there are many other songs that I suppose are more technical or 'difficult' to play....but 'Blind Faith' is a perfect combination of every aspect of MP in my opinion.

Good call Gary, I still consider SDOIT to be MP’s last great drumming record where it still felt like he was pushing the boundaries of his playing. And Blind Faith is the perfect example of that, might be my favorite MP performance and my favorite JR performance as well.

I honestly think every member shines in that song....but I agree that how JR showcases himself in that song is awesome as well.

It's just a really beautiful song all around, lyrically as well.

Very underrated song.  Blind Faith and Misunderstood back to back are just perfect in every way. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: KevShmev on December 26, 2017, 06:38:50 PM
Say what you want about MP, dude always makes me want to go play drums

Supremely talented and just an utter blast to witness play drums. When I saw him last January in StL with Neal Morse playing Similitude of a Dream it's near impossible not to want to just only watch HIM play the entire time.....he's such an amazing drummer.

Interesting. I was the opposite.  I was like 3rd row center and found that Neal was the one my eyes were glued to 90% of the show.  I honestly thought Portnoy looked kinda bored every time I did focus on him a little (since I think he hates having to play venues that small).  He looked a bit more energetic at Morsefest, but again, I probably watched him the least of the five.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on December 26, 2017, 06:54:03 PM
I listened to 6 Degrees for the first time in awhile recently and was reminded just how awesome his parts were

I personally consider 'Blind Faith' to be the single "best" song he's ever drummed. Sure, there are many other songs that I suppose are more technical or 'difficult' to play....but 'Blind Faith' is a perfect combination of every aspect of MP in my opinion.

Good call Gary, I still consider SDOIT to be MP’s last great drumming record where it still felt like he was pushing the boundaries of his playing. And Blind Faith is the perfect example of that, might be my favorite MP performance and my favorite JR performance as well.

I honestly think every member shines in that song....but I agree that how JR showcases himself in that song is awesome as well.

It's just a really beautiful song all around, lyrically as well.

Very underrated song.  Blind Faith and Misunderstood back to back are just perfect in every way.

Blind Faith is still one of my all time favorite DT songs, and I'll never forget how I brought my car to get inspected and had SDOIT in the CD player for my first listen on the way there, but by the time the lady was inspecting my car, Blind Faith had come on (I had not even heard the song yet) and when I passed, the lady says "the song was rocking, those drums were crazy" (or similar, she mentioned the drums and said the song was "rockin") then I listened to it immediately on my way back home and totally understood what she meant.  She asked me who they were and what song, but I could only say Dream Theater.  I didn't even know.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: gmillerdrake on December 26, 2017, 09:21:39 PM
Say what you want about MP, dude always makes me want to go play drums

Supremely talented and just an utter blast to witness play drums. When I saw him last January in StL with Neal Morse playing Similitude of a Dream it's near impossible not to want to just only watch HIM play the entire time.....he's such an amazing drummer.

Interesting. I was the opposite.  I was like 3rd row center and found that Neal was the one my eyes were glued to 90% of the show.  I honestly thought Portnoy looked kinda bored every time I did focus on him a little (since I think he hates having to play venues that small).  He looked a bit more energetic at Morsefest, but again, I probably watched him the least of the five.

well I did say 'not to want to watch him'.   :lol   I divided my attention to about half the time on Neal....25% on MP.....20% on Eric and the other %% on Bill and Randy. My point was I could watch only MP play all night if I weren't careful......I am and always have been captivated by his drumming.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: gmillerdrake on December 26, 2017, 09:24:13 PM
I listened to 6 Degrees for the first time in awhile recently and was reminded just how awesome his parts were

I personally consider 'Blind Faith' to be the single "best" song he's ever drummed. Sure, there are many other songs that I suppose are more technical or 'difficult' to play....but 'Blind Faith' is a perfect combination of every aspect of MP in my opinion.

Good call Gary, I still consider SDOIT to be MP’s last great drumming record where it still felt like he was pushing the boundaries of his playing. And Blind Faith is the perfect example of that, might be my favorite MP performance and my favorite JR performance as well.

I honestly think every member shines in that song....but I agree that how JR showcases himself in that song is awesome as well.

It's just a really beautiful song all around, lyrically as well.

Very underrated song.  Blind Faith and Misunderstood back to back are just perfect in every way.

It's tough to find a better 'back to back' IMO. Voices into Silent Man is on that same level but I give the edge to BF and Misunderstood due to Silent Man being only acoustic.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: DT2003 on December 26, 2017, 09:26:53 PM
Say what you want about MP, dude always makes me want to go play drums

Supremely talented and just an utter blast to witness play drums. When I saw him last January in StL with Neal Morse playing Similitude of a Dream it's near impossible not to want to just only watch HIM play the entire time.....he's such an amazing drummer.

Interesting. I was the opposite.  I was like 3rd row center and found that Neal was the one my eyes were glued to 90% of the show.  I honestly thought Portnoy looked kinda bored every time I did focus on him a little (since I think he hates having to play venues that small).  He looked a bit more energetic at Morsefest, but again, I probably watched him the least of the five.

I saw TSoaD twice live, the second time was one of their last shows back in August. Mike seemed as happy and having as much fun as I’ve ever seen. With that said although I play drums and am normally focused on the drummer for the most part, it is hard for me not to focus on Neal as he is my favorite musician and the emotion he puts into his shows is second to none.  He just has so much joy on stage and it steals the show for me. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: erwinrafael on December 27, 2017, 12:18:40 AM
To me, Blind Faith has the opposite effect. It's the start of me feeling meh about MP's drumming because it was the example of drumming to call attention to himself and stealing the spotlight away from the one doing the instrumental and doing fills that do not complement what the others are doing. Bad drumming. I especially hate the part where JR is doing the Hammond effect (am I right) and MP is doing these cymbal hits that is competing with JR. I was like "what the fuck?" It's like those irritating fills in Misunderstood that do not fit the down feeling of the song.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ganpondorodf on December 27, 2017, 06:02:54 AM

Good call Gary, I still consider SDOIT to be MP’s last great drumming record where it still felt like he was pushing the boundaries of his playing.

Maybe his creativity is fuelled by alcohol
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: jakepriest on December 27, 2017, 11:12:35 AM
To me, Blind Faith has the opposite effect. It's the start of me feeling meh about MP's drumming because it was the example of drumming to call attention to himself and stealing the spotlight away from the one doing the instrumental and doing fills that do not complement what the others are doing. Bad drumming. I especially hate the part where JR is doing the Hammond effect (am I right) and MP is doing these cymbal hits that is competing with JR. I was like "what the fuck?" It's like those irritating fills in Misunderstood that do not fit the down feeling of the song.

Oh jesus not this discussion again please.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: DarkLord_Lalinc on December 29, 2017, 11:08:06 AM
To me, Blind Faith has the opposite effect. It's the start of me feeling meh about MP's drumming because it was the example of drumming to call attention to himself and stealing the spotlight away from the one doing the instrumental and doing fills that do not complement what the others are doing. Bad drumming. I especially hate the part where JR is doing the Hammond effect (am I right) and MP is doing these cymbal hits that is competing with JR. I was like "what the fuck?" It's like those irritating fills in Misunderstood that do not fit the down feeling of the song.

Oh jesus not this discussion again please.
Why? I think it's actually a pretty interesting discussion to have. I disagree wholeheartedly to erwin's opinion on MP's drumming in Blind Faith and Misunderstood but I think it's a cool topic to bring up given some of us feel that MP's drumming the past decade or so has been pretty stale stylistically.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bosk1 on December 29, 2017, 11:12:45 AM
To me, Blind Faith has the opposite effect. It's the start of me feeling meh about MP's drumming because it was the example of drumming to call attention to himself and stealing the spotlight away from the one doing the instrumental and doing fills that do not complement what the others are doing. Bad drumming. I especially hate the part where JR is doing the Hammond effect (am I right) and MP is doing these cymbal hits that is competing with JR. I was like "what the fuck?" It's like those irritating fills in Misunderstood that do not fit the down feeling of the song.

Oh jesus not this discussion again please.
Why? It's actually a pretty interesting discussion to have. I disagree wholeheartedly to erwin's opinion on MP's drumming in Blind Faith and Misunderstood but I think it's a cool topic to bring up...

Absolutely.  And for the record, I'm right there with you in terms of your disagreement.  I don't even get a hint of anything in either of those songs that is problematic from the drumming side of things. 

...some of us feel that MP's drumming the past decade or so has been pretty stale stylistically.

Yeah, I know I've said this many times over now, but I couldn't disagree with this more. 


Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: pcs90 on December 29, 2017, 11:34:03 AM
To me, Blind Faith has the opposite effect. It's the start of me feeling meh about MP's drumming because it was the example of drumming to call attention to himself and stealing the spotlight away from the one doing the instrumental and doing fills that do not complement what the others are doing. Bad drumming. I especially hate the part where JR is doing the Hammond effect (am I right) and MP is doing these cymbal hits that is competing with JR. I was like "what the fuck?" It's like those irritating fills in Misunderstood that do not fit the down feeling of the song.
I'm generally very critical of MP, but for the most part I like the drumming on this song. As busy as it is for some reason it just feels right to me there. There are a couple fills that could have been cut, and the organ solo has a like 3-second section that he changed from the original rhythm (I guess that is the part you are referring to.)
The problem is, he began to use this style on a ton of things, many of which would have sounded better without it.
Now Misunderstood, I completely agree. The little octoban fills drive me insane and I actually cut that section out of my copy (basically like the radio version.) Apparently it's supposed to be a reference to another song or so I was told. Cool, but musically it does not make sense to me.
Intro to Great Debate is nice as well, lots of different ideas. One thing he did very well in that time period was build with the song and change his parts and rhythms accordingly. It starts off very simple and grows.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: The Walrus on December 29, 2017, 11:39:04 AM
That this has become a DT thread is amazing.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bosk1 on December 29, 2017, 11:40:21 AM
That this has become a DT thread is amazing.

Well, to be fair, there isn't really anything "new" at the moment with Sons of Apollo. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: pcs90 on December 29, 2017, 12:43:46 PM
That this has become a DT thread is amazing.

Well, to be fair, there isn't really anything "new" at the moment with Sons of Apollo. 
Not to mention this is a Dream Theater forum, after all.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: The Walrus on December 29, 2017, 01:08:36 PM
I was just expressing a little amusement at it, I know there's not much going on, and that it's a DT forum :) just seems like after all the talk about getting it back on track... it's back to discussing Mike in DT instead of SoA  :lol carry on  :metal
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: IDontNotDoThings on December 29, 2017, 05:36:03 PM
Random thought: does anyone else think the riff from Labyrinth about 1 minute in kinda sounds like the verse riff from Fatal Tragedy?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: DT2003 on December 29, 2017, 08:24:26 PM
Add me to those who totally disagree about Mike’s drumming being stale. I might be down on him lately for some of the crap that has gone on, but man there is no drummer who I have ever enjoyed as much as Mike. His drumming in TSoaD is as enjoyable for me as anything he’s ever done.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Adami on December 29, 2017, 08:34:34 PM
Random thought: does anyone else think the riff from Labyrinth about 1 minute in kinda sounds like the verse riff from Fatal Tragedy?

I mean, it's a generic riff. It sounds like 1000 other generic riffs. If I'm really looking for it, I can see the Fatal Tragedy thing, but only if I'm really looking for it.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: erwinrafael on December 29, 2017, 08:47:41 PM
To get this back on track, what's your favorite MP drumming in Psychotic Symphony? For me, it's in a song I actually do not like much. The basic beat of Signs of the Times. It's simple, but my feet just won't stop drumming to it when the song comes on. Reminds me of Awake-era MP when he was so good in creating distinct drum patterns for each song.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: RodrigoAltaf on December 29, 2017, 11:42:44 PM
To get this back on track, what's your favorite MP drumming in Psychotic Symphony? For me, it's in a song I actually do not like much. The basic beat of Signs of the Times. It's simple, but my feet just won't stop drumming to it when the song comes on. Reminds me of Awake-era MP when he was so good in creating distinct drum patterns for each song.

Great question. I really enjoyed his drumming on Labyrinth and Opus Maximus.

Another thing I just noticed after listening to the album once again is that at 07:45, Bumblefoot has his most Petrucci-esque part, and what follows after that almost sounds like classic DT.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Madman Shepherd on December 31, 2017, 10:41:21 AM
To me, Blind Faith has the opposite effect. It's the start of me feeling meh about MP's drumming because it was the example of drumming to call attention to himself and stealing the spotlight away from the one doing the instrumental and doing fills that do not complement what the others are doing. Bad drumming. I especially hate the part where JR is doing the Hammond effect (am I right) and MP is doing these cymbal hits that is competing with JR. I was like "what the fuck?" It's like those irritating fills in Misunderstood that do not fit the down feeling of the song.

Ya know, I never really noticed that but I can see what you're saying.  I hadn't listened to this song in a while and maybe it was because I was being hypervigilant in trying to identify with what you were saying, but yeah, his drumming does stand out.  Does it stand out like a sore thumb?  Well for me, since I never really noticed for 15 years how it *could* detract from the music, I would say no. 

I always saw that song as featuring each member of Dream Theater.  Myung has some awesome fills.  He could just hold out the bass note but he did some excellent and unique stuff.  Granted, his is more subtle than Portnoy's.  I guess I just look at Portnoy's drumming as being unorthodox enough to never let us get too comfortable in the music.  It flows so perfectly yet each member does enough different stuff to really allow you to be lost in the music but remain on edge.  This goes for LaBrie's lyrics too.  His best if you ask me (maybe along side a few other selections from Elements of Persuasion).
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ytserush on January 05, 2018, 07:05:25 PM
I listened to 6 Degrees for the first time in awhile recently and was reminded just how awesome his parts were

I personally consider 'Blind Faith' to be the single "best" song he's ever drummed. Sure, there are many other songs that I suppose are more technical or 'difficult' to play....but 'Blind Faith' is a perfect combination of every aspect of MP in my opinion.

Good call Gary, I still consider SDOIT to be MP’s last great drumming record where it still felt like he was pushing the boundaries of his playing. And Blind Faith is the perfect example of that, might be my favorite MP performance and my favorite JR performance as well.

I honestly think every member shines in that song....but I agree that how JR showcases himself in that song is awesome as well.

It's just a really beautiful song all around, lyrically as well.

Very underrated song.  Blind Faith and Misunderstood back to back are just perfect in every way.

Whole freaking album is like that for me.  I feel a live show from that tour coming on.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Stadler on January 06, 2018, 09:06:12 AM
I'd go see that.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on January 06, 2018, 10:26:02 AM
Womp womp, had to book a work trip when SoA comes to NJ so I guess my ticket is up for sale
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Tick on January 18, 2018, 05:49:23 AM
After about 10 full listens to this album I now have a true feeling on it...
I would say its boring, predictable, rushed, cookie cutter, formulaic. Average at best.
It sounds like something written in a 24 hour period.

Derrick's keyboards are very uninventive here. Sounds like he uses a lot of pre made samples as well. (The opening of God of the Sun)The same ones I used on my 1995 CD.

This is my first experience listening to Jeff Scott Sotto and I'm not all that impressed. He flats a lot on this record.
Example...
Stare at the wall
Pray for reflection
Try to recall
Beg for "redemption" <------ Very flat!
and how many times can you accentuate a part of song with, "YEAH!"


The guitar, bass, and drum work is fine, but as I said the songs are very forgettable.

Lastly, the lyrics are really bad at times.

"Wastin' time
Lost in oblivion
I'm leaving tomorrow"

Leaving for where? Cheese....

I am a big fan of MP but this is the weakest project of anything I've heard from him. I'd say focus on Winery Dogs, Flying Colors, Neal Morse, and a Transatlantic reunion.

I am just giving my honest assessment. I wanted to like it but its just not great. That being said, if they played close to me I'd go (if the tickets were cheap)just because the musicians are great and hopefully it would be better live.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: MinistroRaven on January 18, 2018, 06:14:43 AM
Who is Derricks? A new member of the band?
-
Now seriously is this band still a thing?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: a51502112 on January 18, 2018, 11:26:16 AM
Now seriously is this band still a thing?

LOL!!!!
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: SwedishGoose on January 18, 2018, 11:54:07 AM
Now seriously is this band still a thing?

LOL!!!!

 :tup
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Stadler on January 18, 2018, 12:58:55 PM
Sounds like he uses a lot of pre made samples as well. (The opening of God of the Sun)The same ones I used on my 1995 CD.

Haha, that made me laugh (in a good way).
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on January 18, 2018, 01:05:08 PM
and how many times can you accentuate a part of song with, "YEAH!"

So much this.  This may have stuck out the most to me on my first listen.  Yea's are great in a live setting, it doesn't work when it's all over the album.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Adami on January 18, 2018, 02:10:06 PM
and how many times can you accentuate a part of song with, "YEAH!"

So much this.  This may have stuck out the most to me on my first listen.  Yea's are great in a live setting, it doesn't work when it's all over the album.

Unless you're James Hetfield.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: The Walrus on January 18, 2018, 02:14:36 PM
Just a note... Mike has almost 1.4 million likes on Facebook. He said over a month ago I think that if the SoA Facebook gets 40k likes - they were at 38.5k at the time - he'd share some special bonus content. Presently they're not even at 40k... just seems extremely low for an MP project to not even get that many likes in the Age of Facebook

Genuinely curious if anybody here is going to the shows, would like to know how they are live. I am still unsure if my friend wants to go to the Joliet gig so I don't know if I'll be going.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on January 18, 2018, 02:19:30 PM
I'm not high on the band, but I had a ticket for the NJ show and can't make it now due to a business trip.  I was looking forward to seeing them live in a small venue, would be really cool and while I didn't love the album, there was potential there for some good tunes if they worked at it a bit more which made me think the live show could have been pretty solid.  Oh well, I won't know.  Also, that NJ show is the same night as G3 in NYC.  I wonder if that has any impact on sales.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Fritzinger on January 18, 2018, 02:44:35 PM
I'll do the same as Tick; if they play anywhere near (hopefully Vienna), I'll surely go if no exam or anything ruins my plans... But I won't drive over 2 hours to see them I think.
I believe this band could kick ass live though.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Tick on January 18, 2018, 02:59:22 PM
and how many times can you accentuate a part of song with, "YEAH!"

So much this.  This may have stuck out the most to me on my first listen.  Yea's are great in a live setting, it doesn't work when it's all over the album.
That just speaks to the lack of giving a shit on this record. You would think a big time fan of music that MP is he would have said..."Its ok to punctuate a part with "YEAH!"on a song if it warrants it. You on the other hand are doing it in nearly every song. Its a bit much."

Having never heard him sing before, I see Jeff Scott Sotto as a journeyman singer. Like a utility player in baseball or a boxer who is talented but is used as a stepping stone to fight and lose to up and coming fighters. I really feel like his performance on this record is very lackluster.
Its a very mish mosh all over the place record. It is the weakest side project Mike has been a part of. Also, this lineup seems to be a bunch of talented guys who don't have the leadership skills to see where they went wrong in so many areas on this record.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Madman Shepherd on January 18, 2018, 03:43:53 PM
Just a note... Mike has almost 1.4 million likes on Facebook. He said over a month ago I think that if the SoA Facebook gets 40k likes - they were at 38.5k at the time - he'd share some special bonus content. Presently they're not even at 40k... just seems extremely low for an MP project to not even get that many likes in the Age of Facebook

Genuinely curious if anybody here is going to the shows, would like to know how they are live. I am still unsure if my friend wants to go to the Joliet gig so I don't know if I'll be going.

I'm about 70% sure I'm going to go to the Joliet show.  You should go!  I know a good BBQ place to eat at beforehand. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: RodrigoAltaf on January 18, 2018, 03:44:19 PM
This album is way more up my alley than TA...
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on January 18, 2018, 03:50:41 PM
I like TA more, but I would say the style of this album may be more up my alley.  I'm definitely more into the metal than prog and this album is definitely pretty heavy, they got that down.  Just execution at the end of the day for me.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: IDontNotDoThings on January 18, 2018, 05:22:45 PM
and how many times can you accentuate a part of song with, "YEAH!"

So much this.  This may have stuck out the most to me on my first listen.  Yea's are great in a live setting, it doesn't work when it's all over the album.

Unless you're James Hetfield.

(https://i.imgur.com/FTSkPBY.jpg)
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Cool Chris on January 18, 2018, 05:42:20 PM
Yeah!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3QqzDy0rloI&feature=youtu.be&t=1m10s
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Lethean on January 18, 2018, 05:54:48 PM
Just a note... Mike has almost 1.4 million likes on Facebook. He said over a month ago I think that if the SoA Facebook gets 40k likes - they were at 38.5k at the time - he'd share some special bonus content. Presently they're not even at 40k... just seems extremely low for an MP project to not even get that many likes in the Age of Facebook

Genuinely curious if anybody here is going to the shows, would like to know how they are live. I am still unsure if my friend wants to go to the Joliet gig so I don't know if I'll be going.

I know a JSS fanboy who is probably going to one of the shows. I'll tell you about it if he does. I don't think you should go though. :P. Go see Leprous instead. Or G3.  Save up for PP. Have a nice meal. Flip some burgers...
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: The Walrus on January 18, 2018, 06:08:41 PM
Just a note... Mike has almost 1.4 million likes on Facebook. He said over a month ago I think that if the SoA Facebook gets 40k likes - they were at 38.5k at the time - he'd share some special bonus content. Presently they're not even at 40k... just seems extremely low for an MP project to not even get that many likes in the Age of Facebook

Genuinely curious if anybody here is going to the shows, would like to know how they are live. I am still unsure if my friend wants to go to the Joliet gig so I don't know if I'll be going.

I know a JSS fanboy who is probably going to one of the shows. I'll tell you about it if he does. I don't think you should go though. :P. Go see Leprous instead. Or G3.  Save up for PP. Have a nice meal. Flip some burgers...

That's a good point. Leprous is only a week later. But they're opening. 2 hour drive for an opener (dislike BTBAM, wouldn't stay). Debating it! :D
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Lethean on January 18, 2018, 06:26:59 PM
Just a note... Mike has almost 1.4 million likes on Facebook. He said over a month ago I think that if the SoA Facebook gets 40k likes - they were at 38.5k at the time - he'd share some special bonus content. Presently they're not even at 40k... just seems extremely low for an MP project to not even get that many likes in the Age of Facebook

Genuinely curious if anybody here is going to the shows, would like to know how they are live. I am still unsure if my friend wants to go to the Joliet gig so I don't know if I'll be going.

I know a JSS fanboy who is probably going to one of the shows. I'll tell you about it if he does. I don't think you should go though. :P. Go see Leprous instead. Or G3.  Save up for PP. Have a nice meal. Flip some burgers...

That's a good point. Leprous is only a week later. But they're opening. 2 hour drive for an opener (dislike BTBAM, wouldn't stay). Debating it! :D

Yeah but that could be a plus. The Dear Hunter might be good. BTBAM might not be that bad, but if they are, you can stop by Leprous' merch booth and tell them how awesome they are, then get a jump on the drive home. Or if I don't like BTBAM either, we could leave and get some pizza.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Tick on January 19, 2018, 05:54:00 AM
This album is way more up my alley than TA...
At least The Astonishing had ambition. Whether it lived up to what they tried to do is up to the listener. Sons on the other hand is way to cookie cutter and formulaic. It feels like something so rushed they didn't worry about its flaws. Lesson for them is, the prog fan won't accept mediocrity. They should have put more time in to make something of real substance. Mike said the album had many different types of songs. To me it has anything presented quickly, they could get recorded in a few days. That's painfully obvious.

YEAH!
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Moor on January 19, 2018, 06:48:43 AM

At least The Astonishing had ambition. Whether it lived up to what they tried to do is up to the listener. Sons on the other hand is way to cookie cutter and formulaic. It feels like something so rushed they didn't worry about its flaws. Lesson for them is, the prog fan won't accept mediocrity. They should have put more time in to make something of real substance. Mike said the album had many different types of songs. To me it has anything presented quickly, they could get recorded in a few days. That's painfully obvious.

YEAH!
[/quote]

Fully agree with this! YEAH! Bye for now, going to flip some burgers  :)
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bosk1 on January 19, 2018, 06:49:15 AM
Hey, here's a thought--people can actually like TA and Psychotic Symphony.  But thanks for telling us all what the obvious flaws are and why we can't possibly like what we like.  "They said 'yeah' too many times!  The horror!"   ::)
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Tick on January 19, 2018, 06:52:18 AM
I'm not telling anyone they can't like it. Merely saying why I don't, which is typical discussion on a messageboard. Please, by all means, like away!

YEAH!
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Stadler on January 19, 2018, 07:31:34 AM
and how many times can you accentuate a part of song with, "YEAH!"

So much this.  This may have stuck out the most to me on my first listen.  Yea's are great in a live setting, it doesn't work when it's all over the album.
That just speaks to the lack of giving a shit on this record. You would think a big time fan of music that MP is he would have said..."Its ok to punctuate a part with "YEAH!"on a song if it warrants it. You on the other hand are doing it in nearly every song. Its a bit much."

Having never heard him sing before, I see Jeff Scott Sotto as a journeyman singer. Like a utility player in baseball or a boxer who is talented but is used as a stepping stone to fight and lose to up and coming fighters. I really feel like his performance on this record is very lackluster.
Its a very mish mosh all over the place record. It is the weakest side project Mike has been a part of. Also, this lineup seems to be a bunch of talented guys who don't have the leadership skills to see where they went wrong in so many areas on this record.

This also from the guy that made a point to point out that Matt Sorum played the same fill 800 times on "November Rain".   

I don't know that I would have phrased it the same way, but I kind of think the same thing about JSS.  Great technical ability, but there's a reason he's bounced around (I know he has a fairly steady gig on TSO, but that's a seasonal thing, not a 24-7-365 gig).  I know there's been a lot of talk abuot why he didn't make some of the more "operatic" choices, but I think those choices - in part - go to why the record is so monotonous (in the literal sense of the word). 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: The Walrus on January 19, 2018, 07:52:08 AM
Yeah but that could be a plus. The Dear Hunter might be good. BTBAM might not be that bad, but if they are, you can stop by Leprous' merch booth and tell them how awesome they are, then get a jump on the drive home. Or if I don't like BTBAM either, we could leave and get some pizza.

Pizza is always good. I'll let you know if I'm going or not! :)
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Madman Shepherd on January 19, 2018, 03:00:49 PM
This album is way more up my alley than TA...
At least The Astonishing had ambition. Whether it lived up to what they tried to do is up to the listener. Sons on the other hand is way to cookie cutter and formulaic. It feels like something so rushed they didn't worry about its flaws. Lesson for them is, the prog fan won't accept mediocrity. They should have put more time in to make something of real substance. Mike said the album had many different types of songs. To me it has anything presented quickly, they could get recorded in a few days. That's painfully obvious.

YEAH

I agree completely and I like psychotic Symphony a hell of a lot more than the astonishing. In other words I respect the hell out of the astonishing for trying something different and having ambition. I think it was a tremendous let down. Psychotic Symphony on the other hand is more up my alley but a huge missed opportunity.

Actually when I think about it I like the two albums about the same. I like three songs off of psychotic Symphony and I like three songs off of the astonishing. Percentage wise I like almost half of psychotic Symphony whereas I like a fraction of the astonishing so in my mind psychotic Symphony wins but almost by default.

Creatively The Atonishing wins...but again by defaut.

Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: RodrigoAltaf on January 19, 2018, 03:40:41 PM
They announced a South American tour in April. Aparently Argentina and Brazil are confirmed, with more dates to come.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ytserush on January 19, 2018, 07:23:59 PM
I'd go see that.

I did. I decided to pull out the 1/19/02 BB Kings show which was the warm-up gig for the tour.

Still remember waiting on line during a sleet storm and running into a friend's parents who just happened to be walking by.

Also remember driving home in the snow listening to Clutching At Straws (as is tradition) and almost hitting a deer. Fun times.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ytserush on January 19, 2018, 07:35:01 PM
Just a note... Mike has almost 1.4 million likes on Facebook. He said over a month ago I think that if the SoA Facebook gets 40k likes - they were at 38.5k at the time - he'd share some special bonus content. Presently they're not even at 40k... just seems extremely low for an MP project to not even get that many likes in the Age of Facebook

Genuinely curious if anybody here is going to the shows, would like to know how they are live. I am still unsure if my friend wants to go to the Joliet gig so I don't know if I'll be going.

If I cared, I'd be at the NJ show.  Definitely a unique opportunity (decent price, small venue) but I'd doubt I'd enjoy it enough to make the effort.  I'd have to want to be there, not just go because it's something to do.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ytserush on January 19, 2018, 07:38:39 PM
This album is way more up my alley than TA...
At least The Astonishing had ambition. Whether it lived up to what they tried to do is up to the listener. Sons on the other hand is way to cookie cutter and formulaic. It feels like something so rushed they didn't worry about its flaws. Lesson for them is, the prog fan won't accept mediocrity. They should have put more time in to make something of real substance. Mike said the album had many different types of songs. To me it has anything presented quickly, they could get recorded in a few days. That's painfully obvious.

YEAH!

If the Astonishing had better lyrics I'd be buying the book and seeing it on Broadway. Missed opportunity there. The live show was as good as it got. Could have been so much more.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: MinistroRaven on January 25, 2018, 06:06:06 AM
The Sons of Apollo getting ready to start the tour

(https://thumb.ibb.co/mZ434G/C1_B178_C2_DC1_E_42_E7_B93_B_6_ABB97_D930_F7.jpg) (https://ibb.co/mZ434G)

 :rollin
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Schurftkut on January 26, 2018, 09:40:08 AM
their FB page reached 40.000 likes, where's the special thing MP promised?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: MirrorMask on January 26, 2018, 09:42:13 AM
their FB page reached 40.000 likes, where's the special thing MP promised?

Derek stops posting trolling tweets for a month
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: The Walrus on January 26, 2018, 10:01:08 AM
(https://oi67.tinypic.com/206dcv8.jpg)

I admit I might have some Shitstirinian blood in me... just having some fun
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Orbert on January 26, 2018, 10:27:04 AM
Is he fucking serious?


Also, should be "Derek and me".
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: kaos2900 on January 26, 2018, 10:31:37 AM
Everything about this band is just such a turn off for me. I'm sure MP is just stirring the pot but still I don't get it. I think MP does have a ton of fan, more than 40,000 I'd presume. I think the fact that they struggled to hit that mark says something about the project.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: The Walrus on January 26, 2018, 10:32:00 AM
Sorry guys, it's not real :lol At least I know my photoshops are convincing! Read the fine print under the pic... haha
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Orbert on January 26, 2018, 10:43:55 AM
Ah, I missed that.  Pretty good job there!  :tup
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: mikeyd23 on January 26, 2018, 10:50:41 AM
Totally had me fooled, kinda sad I thought for a minute that was real.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Madman Shepherd on January 26, 2018, 10:54:44 AM
That's the thing about satire.  If it's good, it is sometimes difficult to discern the truthiness. 

He *has* essentially said those things in tweets before, ya know, passive aggressive statements about having over a millions fans and his shock that they don't all like SoA.

Errr, should I say "fans"

 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Orbert on January 26, 2018, 11:07:26 AM
Mike may have over a million fans, actually I'm sure he does, but that doesn't translate to Sons of Apollo having a million fans.  Mike's delusional if he thinks that every fan of his will automatically like everything he does, every project, every video, etc.  I don't see how he doesn't get that.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Nekov on January 26, 2018, 11:35:11 AM
Mike may have over a million fans, actually I'm sure he does, but that doesn't translate to Sons of Apollo having a million fans.  Mike's delusional if he thinks that every fan of his will automatically like everything he does, every project, every video, etc.  I don't see how he doesn't get that.

Probably because there are a lot of die hard fans out there that do support anything he does and thik it's good because Mike's in it. And we all know Mike loves to live in that little echo chamber that only says good things about him...
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: MirrorMask on January 26, 2018, 11:42:25 AM
Totally had me fooled, kinda sad I thought for a minute that was real.

Me too, I went to check his FB page before realizing the small print.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Aythesryche on January 30, 2018, 02:20:43 PM
So, I've been creeping in this thread since the beginning, and I've managed to get a few spins in of the album. I tried going into this without expecting anything, and by doing so, I was able to enjoy it for what it was. Aside from that, and knowing Portnoy would celebrate with 40k FB likes, I started considering a thought experiment.

Now, lets start off and say all of these guys were unknown before SoA. Lets say Portnoy didn't have any history with DT, wasn't juggling any other bands, and there were no controversies surrounding him. Lets also say their personalities are the same, and MP was pushing his SoA and this particular album in full force, and they managed to get some opening spots with some big named bands for exposure throughout this year.

After a full cycle of touring SoA, album and merch sales, where do you think Portnoy and the rest of SoA would be as far as recognition, appeal, and rate of rising amongst the ranks? Think the history surrounding these guys are holding them back, or do you think it's their particular style of music that, lets say, has a preset "peak" that keeps them from becoming huge this day and age? Also, it would be interesting to see what these guys would come up with if they didn't have their entire professional history behind them that majorly influences what they're doing now. In todays musical climate, think Portnoy would think as he did when he wrote around the WDaDU era? My mother and I used to make up ideas of what Beethoven and Mozart would be doing if they were alive today.

They're curious thoughts. I'm curious if they would be well beyond 40k likes if these powerhouse musicians just showed up out of nowhere with SoA and blew everyone away. Or perhaps, do you think people would hear this and say, "meh" and simply move on, and in the end, Portnoy would be looking at a few hundred FB likes.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Tick on January 30, 2018, 02:38:05 PM
So, I've been creeping in this thread since the beginning, and I've managed to get a few spins in of the album. I tried going into this without expecting anything, and by doing so, I was able to enjoy it for what it was. Aside from that, and knowing Portnoy would celebrate with 40k FB likes, I started considering a thought experiment.

Now, lets start off and say all of these guys were unknown before SoA. Lets say Portnoy didn't have any history with DT, wasn't juggling any other bands, and there were no controversies surrounding him. Lets also say their personalities are the same, and MP was pushing his SoA and this particular album in full force, and they managed to get some opening spots with some big named bands for exposure throughout this year.

After a full cycle of touring SoA, album and merch sales, where do you think Portnoy and the rest of SoA would be as far as recognition, appeal, and rate of rising amongst the ranks? Think the history surrounding these guys are holding them back, or do you think it's their particular style of music that, lets say, has a preset "peak" that keeps them from becoming huge this day and age? Also, it would be interesting to see what these guys would come up with if they didn't have their entire professional history behind them that majorly influences what they're doing now. In todays musical climate, think Portnoy would think as he did when he wrote around the WDaDU era? My mother and I used to make up ideas of what Beethoven and Mozart would be doing if they were alive today.

They're curious thoughts. I'm curious if they would be well beyond 40k likes if these powerhouse musicians just showed up out of nowhere with SoA and blew everyone away. Or perhaps, do you think people would hear this and say, "meh" and simply move on, and in the end, Portnoy would be looking at a few hundred FB likes.
To me it comes down to the album lacking creativity and feeling like pumped out fast food. There are too many artists working hard to make blow away awesome albums, so this falls into an expendable sea of average for me. 4 out of 10.
None of my opinions are based on any drama level of certain members of the band. If the album was awesome, I can overlook a lot.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: gzarruk on January 30, 2018, 02:54:51 PM
So, I've been creeping in this thread since the beginning, and I've managed to get a few spins in of the album. I tried going into this without expecting anything, and by doing so, I was able to enjoy it for what it was. Aside from that, and knowing Portnoy would celebrate with 40k FB likes, I started considering a thought experiment.

Now, lets start off and say all of these guys were unknown before SoA. Lets say Portnoy didn't have any history with DT, wasn't juggling any other bands, and there were no controversies surrounding him. Lets also say their personalities are the same, and MP was pushing his SoA and this particular album in full force, and they managed to get some opening spots with some big named bands for exposure throughout this year.

After a full cycle of touring SoA, album and merch sales, where do you think Portnoy and the rest of SoA would be as far as recognition, appeal, and rate of rising amongst the ranks? Think the history surrounding these guys are holding them back, or do you think it's their particular style of music that, lets say, has a preset "peak" that keeps them from becoming huge this day and age? Also, it would be interesting to see what these guys would come up with if they didn't have their entire professional history behind them that majorly influences what they're doing now. In todays musical climate, think Portnoy would think as he did when he wrote around the WDaDU era? My mother and I used to make up ideas of what Beethoven and Mozart would be doing if they were alive today.

They're curious thoughts. I'm curious if they would be well beyond 40k likes if these powerhouse musicians just showed up out of nowhere with SoA and blew everyone away. Or perhaps, do you think people would hear this and say, "meh" and simply move on, and in the end, Portnoy would be looking at a few hundred FB likes.

Don't know for sure how different would things be the way you put it, but I think Portnoy sometimes takes his previous success for granted. How? He expected every single one of his fans /followers to adore TSOAD and started complaining when it didn't sell as much as he wanted to (even though it still sold very well, IIRC). Same thing happened with SOA to a degree. This is a new band and they can't expect to be the kings of anything (Derek, i'm looking at you) when they haven't been around for even a year, yet, they still wanted it to become the biggest thing ever with just an "ok" album. Things just don't happen that way.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Adami on January 30, 2018, 03:08:34 PM
So, I've been creeping in this thread since the beginning, and I've managed to get a few spins in of the album. I tried going into this without expecting anything, and by doing so, I was able to enjoy it for what it was. Aside from that, and knowing Portnoy would celebrate with 40k FB likes, I started considering a thought experiment.

Now, lets start off and say all of these guys were unknown before SoA. Lets say Portnoy didn't have any history with DT, wasn't juggling any other bands, and there were no controversies surrounding him. Lets also say their personalities are the same, and MP was pushing his SoA and this particular album in full force, and they managed to get some opening spots with some big named bands for exposure throughout this year.

After a full cycle of touring SoA, album and merch sales, where do you think Portnoy and the rest of SoA would be as far as recognition, appeal, and rate of rising amongst the ranks? Think the history surrounding these guys are holding them back, or do you think it's their particular style of music that, lets say, has a preset "peak" that keeps them from becoming huge this day and age? Also, it would be interesting to see what these guys would come up with if they didn't have their entire professional history behind them that majorly influences what they're doing now. In todays musical climate, think Portnoy would think as he did when he wrote around the WDaDU era? My mother and I used to make up ideas of what Beethoven and Mozart would be doing if they were alive today.

They're curious thoughts. I'm curious if they would be well beyond 40k likes if these powerhouse musicians just showed up out of nowhere with SoA and blew everyone away. Or perhaps, do you think people would hear this and say, "meh" and simply move on, and in the end, Portnoy would be looking at a few hundred FB likes.


The amount of fans the drama has cost them is minuscule compared to the number of fans their legacies have brought them. Without their names and histories, they wouldn’t go anywhere. Sadly.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on January 30, 2018, 03:17:34 PM
They would just have to earn their fans the ole fashioned way, which is touring and performing live, constantly.  I have no doubt these guys would be solid live as they are professionals, but to get the 40k likes on facebook, they would need to be innovative and playing shows.  They haven't done either of those yet.   The certainly wouldn't be able to do a headline tour (even like their small NA tour that's coming up).  They would have to open for small bands and I think their level of playing would probably blow most small bands out of the water in a live setting.  But the amount of people seeing this would be small, they'd have to keep doing it and keep doing it to grow.  A strong follow up album would help as well.  Might be like Haken and take 10 years before they could do a NA headline tour.  The genre is just not very strong so that doesn't help, but I have no doubt that the talent of the people in this band would win fans over in a live setting compared to a smaller level band they would likely be opening for.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Madman Shepherd on January 30, 2018, 03:53:16 PM
Without the names this album would have had far fewer fans.  On the other hands, if this was a group of nobodies then people may be more excited.  Take me for instance, I like three of the songs and the rest are bland.  If this was a new group starting out I'd say, "Crap, they have a ton of potential!"  I may make a big effort to see them.  It'll probably be in a club that holds 200 people but that makes it more special.  Maybe their next album will be even better. 

As it stands they are a bunch of established musicians so the album was a let down.  I may go see them live but only because my friends are and its not on a work night. It may seem strange to have that double standard but a large part of a band's success is based around hype and this group doesn't quite live up to it. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ytserush on January 30, 2018, 06:30:00 PM
So, I've been creeping in this thread since the beginning, and I've managed to get a few spins in of the album. I tried going into this without expecting anything, and by doing so, I was able to enjoy it for what it was. Aside from that, and knowing Portnoy would celebrate with 40k FB likes, I started considering a thought experiment.

Now, lets start off and say all of these guys were unknown before SoA. Lets say Portnoy didn't have any history with DT, wasn't juggling any other bands, and there were no controversies surrounding him. Lets also say their personalities are the same, and MP was pushing his SoA and this particular album in full force, and they managed to get some opening spots with some big named bands for exposure throughout this year.

After a full cycle of touring SoA, album and merch sales, where do you think Portnoy and the rest of SoA would be as far as recognition, appeal, and rate of rising amongst the ranks? Think the history surrounding these guys are holding them back, or do you think it's their particular style of music that, lets say, has a preset "peak" that keeps them from becoming huge this day and age? Also, it would be interesting to see what these guys would come up with if they didn't have their entire professional history behind them that majorly influences what they're doing now. In todays musical climate, think Portnoy would think as he did when he wrote around the WDaDU era? My mother and I used to make up ideas of what Beethoven and Mozart would be doing if they were alive today.

They're curious thoughts. I'm curious if they would be well beyond 40k likes if these powerhouse musicians just showed up out of nowhere with SoA and blew everyone away. Or perhaps, do you think people would hear this and say, "meh" and simply move on, and in the end, Portnoy would be looking at a few hundred FB likes.

If this was a random band I wouldn't have gotten past the first listen.  I only own it because of the track record. (Though I haven't listened to it in more than a month.)
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Stadler on January 31, 2018, 07:42:08 AM

Don't know for sure how different would things be the way you put it, but I think Portnoy sometimes takes his previous success for granted. How? He expected every single one of his fans /followers to adore TSOAD and started complaining when it didn't sell as much as he wanted to (even though it still sold very well, IIRC). Same thing happened with SOA to a degree. This is a new band and they can't expect to be the kings of anything (Derek, i'm looking at you) when they haven't been around for even a year, yet, they still wanted it to become the biggest thing ever with just an "ok" album. Things just don't happen that way.

Not sure how I feel about this comparison.   I don't see them as being the same at all. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Stadler on January 31, 2018, 07:44:00 AM

The amount of fans the drama has cost them is minuscule compared to the number of fans their legacies have brought them. Without their names and histories, they wouldn’t go anywhere. Sadly.

I think this is right.  There is just SO much out there, and at least I can't absorb it all.  I want to get into Greta Van Sustern, but I don't have time.  I have a couple Rival Sons CDs, saw them KILL IT opening for Sabbath, and yet... the standard is higher and there's just not enough room for average. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: The Walrus on January 31, 2018, 07:46:33 AM

The amount of fans the drama has cost them is minuscule compared to the number of fans their legacies have brought them. Without their names and histories, they wouldn’t go anywhere. Sadly.

I think this is right.  There is just SO much out there, and at least I can't absorb it all.  I want to get into Greta Van Sustern, but I don't have time.  I have a couple Rival Sons CDs, saw them KILL IT opening for Sabbath, and yet... the standard is higher and there's just not enough room for average.

Greta Van Fleet?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bosk1 on January 31, 2018, 07:58:55 AM

Don't know for sure how different would things be the way you put it, but I think Portnoy sometimes takes his previous success for granted. How? He expected every single one of his fans /followers to adore TSOAD and started complaining when it didn't sell as much as he wanted to (even though it still sold very well, IIRC). Same thing happened with SOA to a degree. This is a new band and they can't expect to be the kings of anything (Derek, i'm looking at you) when they haven't been around for even a year, yet, they still wanted it to become the biggest thing ever with just an "ok" album. Things just don't happen that way.

Not sure how I feel about this comparison.   I don't see them as being the same at all. 

It's not the best comparison, but I get where gzarruk is coming from.  I think it is relevant as one of many examples that show a trend of him getting unjustifiably frustrated at the fans when fan response to his work does not meet his very high expectations for what said fan response "should" be. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Stadler on January 31, 2018, 08:03:21 AM

The amount of fans the drama has cost them is minuscule compared to the number of fans their legacies have brought them. Without their names and histories, they wouldn’t go anywhere. Sadly.

I think this is right.  There is just SO much out there, and at least I can't absorb it all.  I want to get into Greta Van Sustern, but I don't have time.  I have a couple Rival Sons CDs, saw them KILL IT opening for Sabbath, and yet... the standard is higher and there's just not enough room for average.

Greta Van Fleet?

Yessir, but a reference to an aging TV talking head is funnier.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: The Walrus on January 31, 2018, 08:07:16 AM
Yessir, but a reference to an aging TV talking head is funnier.

That's what I thought. But dude! They have like 8 songs. Stop listening to KISS for an hour and listen to them :) :)
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on January 31, 2018, 08:17:46 AM
Yessir, but a reference to an aging TV talking head is funnier.

That's what I thought. But dude! They have like 8 songs. Stop listening to KISS for an hour and listen to them :) :)

Tried really hard to get tickets for them at the local small venue they are playing here, but the sales crashed the site and were gone in a few minutes.  I would have loved to check them out so early in their potentially huge career.  Their few songs are really cool.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Orbert on January 31, 2018, 08:35:50 AM
Don't know for sure how different would things be the way you put it, but I think Portnoy sometimes takes his previous success for granted. How? He expected every single one of his fans /followers to adore TSOAD and started complaining when it didn't sell as much as he wanted to (even though it still sold very well, IIRC). Same thing happened with SOA to a degree. This is a new band and they can't expect to be the kings of anything (Derek, i'm looking at you) when they haven't been around for even a year, yet, they still wanted it to become the biggest thing ever with just an "ok" album. Things just don't happen that way.
Not sure how I feel about this comparison.   I don't see them as being the same at all. 
It's not the best comparison, but I get where gzarruk is coming from.  I think it is relevant as one of many examples that show a trend of him getting unjustifiably frustrated at the fans when fan response to his work does not meet his very high expectations for what said fan response "should" be. 

I get it, too.  Mike is all "We are all awesome, and this is all of us, all together.  How can people not love it?  What the hell is wrong with people?"  When they literally went into a studio for a week, recorded some stuff, tossed it out there and called it an album.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: gzarruk on January 31, 2018, 09:01:23 AM
Don't know for sure how different would things be the way you put it, but I think Portnoy sometimes takes his previous success for granted. How? He expected every single one of his fans /followers to adore TSOAD and started complaining when it didn't sell as much as he wanted to (even though it still sold very well, IIRC). Same thing happened with SOA to a degree. This is a new band and they can't expect to be the kings of anything (Derek, i'm looking at you) when they haven't been around for even a year, yet, they still wanted it to become the biggest thing ever with just an "ok" album. Things just don't happen that way.
Not sure how I feel about this comparison.   I don't see them as being the same at all. 
It's not the best comparison, but I get where gzarruk is coming from.  I think it is relevant as one of many examples that show a trend of him getting unjustifiably frustrated at the fans when fan response to his work does not meet his very high expectations for what said fan response "should" be. 

I get it, too.  Mike is all "We are all awesome, and this is all of us, all together.  How can people not love it?  What the hell is wrong with people?"  When they literally went into a studio for a week, recorded some stuff, tossed it out there and called it an album.

I could've said it better, but my point is that he expects every one of his fans to praise EVERYTHING he does (refering to albums/bands), only because they have MP's name on them. The way he sees it, if you aren't completely sold into whatever he just released, you aren't a real fan or you "just don't get it".
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: SwedishGoose on January 31, 2018, 09:09:32 AM
I could've said it better, but my point is that he expects every one of his fans to praise EVERYTHING he does (refering to albums/bands), only because they have MP's name on them. The way he sees it, if you aren't completely sold into whatever he just released, you aren't a real fan or you "just don't get it".

Yes that is how I think he thinks as well....
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on January 31, 2018, 03:46:09 PM
https://www.blabbermouth.net/news/richie-kotzen-says-now-would-have-been-the-perfect-time-for-the-winery-dogs-to-regroup/ (https://www.blabbermouth.net/news/richie-kotzen-says-now-would-have-been-the-perfect-time-for-the-winery-dogs-to-regroup/)

Quote
According to Richie, it was his desire to return to recording albums and touring as a solo artist that caused THE WINERY DOGS to go on hiatus. "I wanted to go back to what I was doing my whole life, which is making my music and my records," he said. "Ideally, I would have thought now would have been the perfect time to be in a WINERY DOGS cycle. 'Cause last year I did my [solo] record. But they have a new band," referring to SONS OF APOLLO

Man do I wish we had more WD
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: The Walrus on January 31, 2018, 03:49:15 PM
God damn it.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Anxiety35 on January 31, 2018, 03:52:46 PM
I think MP has oversaturated himself in the market. Instead of getting excited about a new release, we tend to think "Oh, another album with MP." I don't look forward to new MP related releases anymore.  I get that he likes to be involved with many projects and he's worked hard to get to that place where he can do that. It was cool when he was in DT and he had Transatlantic and Liquid Tension Experiment on the side. But he had a home base back then and those 2 projects were awesome. Now he's spread thin and the output hasn't been as good. In my opinion, the Winery Dogs has been the best thing he's done since leaving DT. Since MP doesn't have that home base anymore it seems like he's wandering aimlessly in the desert.

I grabbed the SOA release because I wanted to hear a Sherinian & MP record. I gave it a 7 on the poll but I'd scale it down to a 6 or 6.5 since. The record didn't blow me away and it hasn't stood the test of time for me. I don't like to say that but for me, it's true.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: El Barto on January 31, 2018, 05:37:05 PM
I think MP has oversaturated himself in the market. Instead of getting excited about a new release, we tend to think "Oh, another album with MP." I don't look forward to new MP related releases anymore.  I get that he likes to be involved with many projects and he's worked hard to get to that place where he can do that. It was cool when he was in DT and he had Transatlantic and Liquid Tension Experiment on the side. But he had a home base back then and those 2 projects were awesome. Now he's spread thin and the output hasn't been as good. In my opinion, the Winery Dogs has been the best thing he's done since leaving DT. Since MP doesn't have that home base anymore it seems like he's wandering aimlessly in the desert.
I think this is spot on. Combine it with his belief that people will love anything he does, and his inability to recognize his flaws, and things aren't going to go the way he wants.

Regarding the hypothetical, there's no telling how it works out if they were all unknowns. I think there's a great deal of luck involved, so had they good label support they might be doing much better than they are now. That would get them an outside, proper producer. They'd get an opening slot with somebody worth a damn, and given their talent level and stagecraft could conceivably blow them right off the stage. They'd get a good sized tour in small venues, much like TWD. Most importantly they'd get a shot at a radio single. Simply a matter of whether or not they won the EMI Lottery. As it stands now their prior fame isn't helping them in that regard. In fact it's no doubt hurting them.

As for their style of music, I don't think it has a limited appeal at all. Most of it's pretty generic rock with plenty of stuff that could get radio play. It's not my bag, but it could certainly be sold to the masses. After all, this isn't Tales from Topgraphic Oceans or anything.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bosk1 on February 01, 2018, 06:32:29 AM
I grabbed the SOA release because I wanted to hear a Sherinian & MP record. I gave it a 7 on the poll but I'd scale it down to a 6 or 6.5 since. The record didn't blow me away and it hasn't stood the test of time for me. I don't like to say that but for me, it's true.

Test of time?  Um...it's only been a few months.  :lol
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bill1971 on February 01, 2018, 08:46:45 AM
After a few months I decided to give it another try yesterday because I thought my personal feelings with MP and DS were clouding the music. I honestly couldn't get through it. I still do enjoy Labyrinth but everything else seems uninspired and uninteresting to me. I am actually very glad many people here like it it and almost 40,000 people like it out in the world but it's not for me. I hope them success and I am sure the live show will be very good. They are extremely talented.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: The Walrus on February 01, 2018, 08:50:26 AM
Quote from: Mike Portnoy
Sons of Apollo’s OPUS MAXIMUS has 4 of the craziest sections ever!!
Pt 1) The crazy “Bumbleteen Riff” in 6,6,7
Pt 2) Guitar Solo over 11,11,11,9,11,9,11,9
Pt 3) Bass Jam in 19/16 Groove
Pt 4) Keyboard Solo with 3 tiers of 10/4
In this video, Bumblefoot breaks down the “Bumbleteen Riff” 😵

I think this is why I just don't give a crap about chops anymore. This doesn't scream "awesome" or "good music" to me. It just reeks of making music more complicated than it needs to be, just for the sake of making it complicated. Sometimes just throwing in a single measure of 7/8 or 2/3 etc. in an otherwise standard song does more for the song than trying to change meters every other bar or squeezing in 16th run paradiddlyokilydokily phrygian dominant 19/35 half-time oh god I've gone cross-eyed
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on February 01, 2018, 08:54:45 AM
I think I am the rare breed that enjoyed Opus Maximus and actually liked it more than most of the album. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: devieira73 on February 01, 2018, 09:14:40 AM
Maybe my fave from album and the interesting thing is that it doesn’t sound like is the craziest instrumental song ever (MP compared it in complexity to tDoE on Facebook, which surprised me) which I guess is a sign of good musicality IMO.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Kwyjibo on February 01, 2018, 09:59:48 AM
For me it sounds exactly like a collection of crazy parts that really don't have any connection with each other. A disjointed wank-fest that does nothing for me.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Cool Chris on February 01, 2018, 10:04:14 AM
...and almost 40,000 people like it...

Assuming you are referring to facebook "likes" I think the value of saying someone likes something based on an internet thumbs up devalues the word a little bit. It's easy to click a button saying you "like" something. You don't even need to actually like it to do it. Is this really the measure of success a band (or person, or entity) strives for these days? A positive web presence?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Anguyen92 on February 01, 2018, 10:08:12 AM
^^ It's a lot better than striving for an unhealthy and negative web presence where people hate on everything.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: mikeyd23 on February 01, 2018, 10:12:57 AM
...and almost 40,000 people like it...

Assuming you are referring to facebook "likes" I think the value of saying someone likes something based on an internet thumbs up devalues the word a little bit. It's easy to click a button saying you "like" something. You don't even need to actually like it to do it. Is this really the measure of success a band (or person, or entity) strives for these days? A positive web presence?

I think a lot of people can view facebook likes as a popularity contest now-a-days, yes.

Personally, I think for a band like SOA, the indicator of success will be how they do in the touring marketing. Will they be able to build momentum touring and start getting promoters to book them in bigger venues, will they sell those venues well, etc...
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: gzarruk on February 01, 2018, 10:14:18 AM
For me it sounds exactly like a collection of crazy parts that really don't have any connection with each other. A disjointed wank-fest that does nothing for me.

Same for me. The rest of the album might not be good (to me) but it's at least listenable, Opus Maximus isn't.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Stadler on February 01, 2018, 10:20:26 AM
...and almost 40,000 people like it...

Assuming you are referring to facebook "likes" I think the value of saying someone likes something based on an internet thumbs up devalues the word a little bit. It's easy to click a button saying you "like" something. You don't even need to actually like it to do it. Is this really the measure of success a band (or person, or entity) strives for these days? A positive web presence?

It's meaningless, but it's addictive.  I have  no Facebook site, and just recently joined Twitter (primarily to follow the inanities of our Commander in Chief).   Someone made a comment and I replied to it, and I got something like 250 likes.  My phone blew up (I get a message every time someone likes a post of mine) and it was scary how quickly I was thinking about "how many likes I have!"   It ultimately made me uncomfortable but I get why people overdo this whole social media thing.    (And I don't think it's health at all). 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Orbert on February 01, 2018, 11:02:06 AM
Positive reinforcement can be addicting, no doubt, and every time you're notified that someone "likes" what you said or did, that's positive reinforcement.  I'm sure I'm not telling you anything new, nor is it news to you that addictions in general are not healthy.

But in the grand scheme of things, being addicted to "likes" is probably one of the less destructive vices.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: MirrorMask on February 01, 2018, 01:22:25 PM
Maybe in this day and age promoters are starting to look at the number of likes on a page as one of the many factors they consider to book a band. I know a small local band whose singer time and again asked for a like on Facebook of their page 'cause it helped also to get more gigs, I don't know if it's something that applies only to small band where a bar owner could think "Well, let's see if they fill my bar or not", or something that bigger promoters actually consider or not, but maybe it's come to a point where you actually "need" to show off a big following on social media.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on February 01, 2018, 01:37:57 PM
Maybe in this day and age promoters are starting to look at the number of likes on a page as one of the many factors they consider to book a band. I know a small local band whose singer time and again asked for a like on Facebook of their page 'cause it helped also to get more gigs, I don't know if it's something that applies only to small band where a bar owner could think "Well, let's see if they fill my bar or not", or something that bigger promoters actually consider or not, but maybe it's come to a point where you actually "need" to show off a big following on social media.

Yea, you can certainly get some sort of measurement of a fanbase by that.  Youtube views as well.  I'm not sure how much of that matters for bands like SOA, but I can see it helping for small bands trying to make a name for themselves like your example.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Stadler on February 01, 2018, 02:16:42 PM
Positive reinforcement can be addicting, no doubt, and every time you're notified that someone "likes" what you said or did, that's positive reinforcement.  I'm sure I'm not telling you anything new, nor is it news to you that addictions in general are not healthy.

But in the grand scheme of things, being addicted to "likes" is probably one of the less destructive vices.

I'm not 1000% convinced that the last thought is true.  I think it may be more indirect, but I'm not ready to concede "less destructive".
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on February 01, 2018, 02:38:41 PM
Well, less than what?  Less than being an alcoholic? Yea I'd say that's likely.  But I don't think we fully know how bad an addiction to "likes" really is yet.  I think studies have shown the addiction may be due to self esteem issues, but what's the negative to this addiction?  Being annoying on social media? 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Stadler on February 01, 2018, 03:00:51 PM
Well, less than what?  Less than being an alcoholic? Yea I'd say that's likely.  But I don't think we fully know how bad an addiction to "likes" really is yet.  I think studies have shown the addiction may be due to self esteem issues, but what's the negative to this addiction?  Being annoying on social media?

Well, I fully get that not everyone shares my disdain for the social media but I think the thrill of the "like" is at least in part driving things like the bullying we saw in another thread.  it may not be strictly "the like", but the recognition.    I think it dumbs us down.  If I'm addicted to the rush, and I have a choice between "Well, Trump tax policy is lacking because [economic theory no. 1] and [economic theory no. 2], and we should consider an alternative [economic theory no. 3] because according to the CBO it will provide an average of $3,000 more per working family per year over the next 15 years." or "Trump the Chump, rafting white America, and shafting black America!" which do you think I'll post?   Which is actually contributing to the discourse,

You've got someone like Jen Selter, who is LITERALLY famous because God (or evolution, or both) gifted her with a nice ass*, now thinks she's got the clout to tell an airline how and when to operate their plane.   There are literally thousands of examples of this kind of lack of self-awareness.

* Taste is taste, but not my speed, personally. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on February 01, 2018, 03:09:18 PM
I get what you are saying, II'm not entirely sure dumbing down a statement equates to more likes, but maybe there is something to that.  And yea, I can see the bullying part of it as well.  I think the "less destructive" thought was more towards your own self, but maybe on a macro scale there is more to this than I was thinking.  I'm not entirely sure.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Adami on February 01, 2018, 03:17:04 PM
I mean, we're communicating on a much larger scale in dumber language with social media. We're still, mostly communicating in full thought in person.

So the only actual difference between pre and post social media, is who is hearing us.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Madman Shepherd on February 01, 2018, 04:33:02 PM
I grabbed the SOA release because I wanted to hear a Sherinian & MP record. I gave it a 7 on the poll but I'd scale it down to a 6 or 6.5 since. The record didn't blow me away and it hasn't stood the test of time for me. I don't like to say that but for me, it's true.

Test of time?  Um...it's only been a few months.  :lol

That really doesn't bode well for the album then. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: RodrigoAltaf on February 01, 2018, 04:39:28 PM
I listened to the full album today once again, and honestly, I'm really sorry that it didn't please more people. After a few weeks without listening to it, I like it even more, and found myself whistling a bunch of the solos and melodies. I hope they're able to captivate more people once the tour starts.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Samsara on February 01, 2018, 05:29:22 PM
I played the record for the first time in months today. It is pretty much where it was for me after the first half a dozen times. It is OK. I (unfairly or not) expected more.

I think live the band will be incredible. JSS is a great frontman. But I still stand by my initial thought that while I love JSS, his voice doesn't sit well (for me) with these tunes. I expected (again, fairly or unfairly) a rangier or at least more dynamic vocal performance on the album. And Bumblefoot, while an incredible player...he's just there. Same thing with Sheehan. Great player...but whatever. But the record falls a little short of the high expectations I had for the project.

But I will say this, if they play near me, I am for sure going. And these days, bands release records so they can get out there and tour, since that is where the money is. So if that was their goal, I guess they succeeded with me, even if the record isn't as good as I had hoped it would be (here's hoping for some FII DT covers!)
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Stadler on February 01, 2018, 07:41:47 PM
What's the plan with releasing more dates?   I haven't heard a word since the initial round...  I'll go if it's near-ish me, but I'm not traveling with the idea that there might be a closer date in the wings.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: KevShmev on February 01, 2018, 07:49:16 PM
Word is that they are still waiting for state fairs to come about so they can open up for Billy Idol.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: DragonAttack on February 01, 2018, 08:21:09 PM
They should be so lucky to open for Billy Joel.

https://www.viagogo.com/Concert-Tickets/Rock-and-Pop/Billy-Joel-Tickets
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Stadler on February 01, 2018, 09:18:32 PM
Yeah, no shit.  Billy sells out Madison Square Garden a couple times a month just because, with no album (and none since 199-someodd).  Mike would get his "40k eyeballs" in two shows with Billy.  :)
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Madman Shepherd on February 02, 2018, 01:30:50 AM
Yeah, no shit.  Billy sells out Madison Square Garden a couple times a month just because, with no album (and none since 199-someodd).  Mike would get his "40k eyeballs" in two shows with Billy.  :)

I saw Billy in 2006 or so (with Derek on keyboards) and he sold out or near sold out a 900-1000 capacity venue. 

Not a bad turnout. 

Great show. 

Edit: Oh I get it, we went from Billy Idol to Billy Joel. 

What about Billie Joe Armstrong? 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Nekov on February 02, 2018, 05:34:21 AM
What's the plan with releasing more dates?   I haven't heard a word since the initial round...  I'll go if it's near-ish me, but I'm not traveling with the idea that there might be a closer date in the wings.

They started announcing some dates in South America, but that's about it. Maybe tickets for the first round are not as hot and promoters are not interested in this band?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: New World Rushman on February 02, 2018, 06:48:42 AM
Yeah, no shit.  Billy sells out Madison Square Garden a couple times a month just because, with no album (and none since 199-someodd).  Mike would get his "40k eyeballs" in two shows with Billy.  :)

I saw Billy in 2006 or so (with Derek on keyboards) and he sold out or near sold out a 900-1000 capacity venue. 

Not a bad turnout. 

Great show. 

Edit: Oh I get it, we went from Billy Idol to Billy Joel. 

What about Billie Joe Armstrong?

I saw BJA at Giants Stadium on the American Idiot tour, then a few years later as St. Jimmy in the Broadway production of American Idiot.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on February 02, 2018, 06:52:46 AM
I saw Green Day on the 2000 warped tour.  I'd go see Billy Idol.  He's playing a festival in Jacksonville near my parents.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Stadler on February 02, 2018, 07:23:02 AM
That Billy Corgan sure puts on a good show.  Little odd, but the man can play guitar. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on February 02, 2018, 07:46:11 AM
That Billy Corgan sure puts on a good show.  Little odd, but the man can play guitar. 

And swing it too.  I've never seen Smashing Pumpkins before, but I did see Billy at an ECW wrestling event smash a guitar over someone's head.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Hourglass Prison on February 02, 2018, 08:43:38 AM
Quote from: Mike Portnoy
Sons of Apollo’s OPUS MAXIMUS has 4 of the craziest sections ever!!
Pt 1) The crazy “Bumbleteen Riff” in 6,6,7
Pt 2) Guitar Solo over 11,11,11,9,11,9,11,9
Pt 3) Bass Jam in 19/16 Groove
Pt 4) Keyboard Solo with 3 tiers of 10/4
In this video, Bumblefoot breaks down the “Bumbleteen Riff” 😵

I think this is why I just don't give a crap about chops anymore. This doesn't scream "awesome" or "good music" to me. It just reeks of making music more complicated than it needs to be, just for the sake of making it complicated. Sometimes just throwing in a single measure of 7/8 or 2/3 etc. in an otherwise standard song does more for the song than trying to change meters every other bar or squeezing in 16th run paradiddlyokilydokily phrygian dominant 19/35 half-time oh god I've gone cross-eyed

 :rollin
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: rumborak on February 02, 2018, 08:45:38 AM
That Billy Corgan sure puts on a good show.  Little odd, but the man can play guitar. 

And swing it too.  I've never seen Smashing Pumpkins before, but I did see Billy at an ECW wrestling event smash a guitar over someone's head.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2RRf-tBJMOM
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on February 02, 2018, 08:48:51 AM
 :lol been awhile since I've seen that
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: mikeyd23 on February 02, 2018, 09:32:46 AM
Yeah, no shit.  Billy sells out Madison Square Garden a couple times a month just because, with no album (and none since 199-someodd).  Mike would get his "40k eyeballs" in two shows with Billy.  :)

I saw Billy in 2006 or so (with Derek on keyboards) and he sold out or near sold out a 900-1000 capacity venue. 

Not a bad turnout. 

Great show. 

Edit: Oh I get it, we went from Billy Idol to Billy Joel. 

What about Billie Joe Armstrong?

Hahah, any Billy will do.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Stadler on February 02, 2018, 10:36:50 AM
Yeah, no shit.  Billy sells out Madison Square Garden a couple times a month just because, with no album (and none since 199-someodd).  Mike would get his "40k eyeballs" in two shows with Billy.  :)

I saw Billy in 2006 or so (with Derek on keyboards) and he sold out or near sold out a 900-1000 capacity venue. 

Not a bad turnout. 

Great show. 

Edit: Oh I get it, we went from Billy Idol to Billy Joel. 

What about Billie Joe Armstrong?

Hahah, any Billy will do.

You're one Billy behind; we're up to Corgan now.    Still waiting on Squier, Sherwood, Preston, Ocean and Gibbons.   
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: The Walrus on February 02, 2018, 10:39:32 AM
No Sheehan, really??
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Orbert on February 02, 2018, 10:46:52 AM
That would be different.  Sons of Apollo opening for a Billy Sheehan solo tour.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: mikeyd23 on February 02, 2018, 10:46:57 AM
 :lol
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: The Walrus on February 02, 2018, 10:53:28 AM
I'll be honest I kind of forgot what was even being talked about, I just wanted to add to the Billy list  :lol :lol
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Orbert on February 02, 2018, 12:02:19 PM
That's fair.  I don't know what I'm talking about most of the time.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Madman Shepherd on February 02, 2018, 12:12:07 PM
I think we're talking about Billy Ray Cyrus now
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: MirrorMask on February 02, 2018, 12:13:42 PM
Maybe Billy Jean will be one of the covers in the set?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Adami on February 02, 2018, 12:15:57 PM
Clearly SoA are going to be opening for Billy Gibbons' solo.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on February 02, 2018, 12:34:51 PM
Maybe between sets they show scenes from Billy Madison?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Adami on February 02, 2018, 12:43:02 PM
Maybe between sets they show scenes from Billy Madison?

Only if the show is MCd by Billy Crystal.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Orbert on February 02, 2018, 12:58:33 PM
Just don't tell my heart
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: axeman90210 on February 02, 2018, 12:58:39 PM
Another Day cover with Bill Clinton on sax?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Orbert on February 02, 2018, 01:01:08 PM
Billy Clinton
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: The Walrus on February 02, 2018, 01:14:33 PM
Maybe Billy Bob Thornton will buy a ticket.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on February 02, 2018, 01:14:38 PM
Followed by a quiz outside the venue from Billy on the Steet?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: PetFish on February 02, 2018, 02:09:55 PM
I didn't know Billy Loomis was a musician.  I thought him and his buddy were just psycho Mom-killers.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Madman Shepherd on February 02, 2018, 04:46:15 PM
Maybe a special reading of

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51Z-15sERML.jpg)

by pseudo billy goat looking guest

(https://bravewords.com/medias-static/images/news/2014/54606DC4-dream-theater-keyboardist-jordan-rudess-featured-on-radioq-showcase-today-image.png)
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Architeuthis on February 02, 2018, 08:37:17 PM
So does anybody know if SOA are gonna announce any more US dates besides a hand full of dates on the east coast?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Adami on February 02, 2018, 08:43:15 PM
So does anybody know if SOA are gonna announce any more US dates besides a hand full of dates on the east coast?

I'd imagine so. Seems like an odd tour if they don't.

They have March-June free, so I assume those will be filled up at some point.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Architeuthis on February 02, 2018, 08:51:57 PM
I hope so, I'd like to catch that if they head to the Pacific Northwest. :metal
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Cool Chris on February 03, 2018, 12:04:12 AM
They have March-June free, so I assume those will be filled up at some point.

Mike will be in the studio with his new band during those months.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: MinistroRaven on February 03, 2018, 06:07:54 AM
They have March-June free, so I assume those will be filled up at some point.

Mike will be in the studio with his new band during those months.

 :rollin
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Tick on February 03, 2018, 06:15:30 AM
(https://bravewords.com/medias-static/images/news/2014/54606DC4-dream-theater-keyboardist-jordan-rudess-featured-on-radioq-showcase-today-image.png)
"Some call me.....Tim"
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: TAC on February 03, 2018, 03:16:10 PM
Me too. :D
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: The Walrus on February 03, 2018, 03:50:14 PM
Sons of Apolltoe

The Three have posted
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Hourglass Prison on February 03, 2018, 08:59:57 PM
(https://bravewords.com/medias-static/images/news/2014/54606DC4-dream-theater-keyboardist-jordan-rudess-featured-on-radioq-showcase-today-image.png)
"Some call me.....Tim"

Tim the Enchanter!  :lol
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Mister Gold on February 04, 2018, 05:04:47 AM
So uh, given the controversy that hit the web while the album was first coming out, I mostly avoided listening to the Sons of Apollo debut. Finally decided to give it a spin the other night and I have a feeling a lot of folks here aren't going to be happy- but I think I like it better than most Dream Theater albums? :lol

For the record, I don't think Psychotic Symphony is even remotely on par with any of Dream Theater's top four albums (i.e. Images & Words, Awake, SFAM and Six Degrees)- but I think I like it about as much as I do say Train of Thought, Falling Into Infinity or A Dramatic Turn of Events.

It's not a very original album by any means, but I think the band has promise. If Mike is able to stick to a particular band for once and keep at it for a second or third album, I think Sons of Apollo have potential to do something pretty good. They just need to experiment a bit more and offer something new to the table. The talent and chemistry is there and the songs on PS actually aren't bad.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: RodrigoAltaf on February 04, 2018, 05:27:47 AM
 They played their first ever concert last night at Cruise to the Edge, and here´s the setlist:

God of the Sun
Signs of the Time
Labyrinth
Billy Sheehan´s bass solo
Lost in Oblivion
Prophet Song/Save Me (Queen covers)
Alive
Opus Maximus
Derek solo
LINES IN THE FCUKING SAND!!!!
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: MirrorMask on February 04, 2018, 05:34:21 AM
They played their first ever concert last night at Cruise to the Edge, and here´s the setlist:

God of the Sun
Signs of the Time
Labyrinth
Billy Sheehan´s bass solo
Lost in Oblivion
Prophet Song/Save Me (Queen covers)
Alive
Opus Maximus
Derek solo
LINES IN THE FCUKING SAND!!!!

Sorry but you got the emphasis wrong. THEY PLAYED THE PROPHET'S SONG!!!!! Need a video ASAP!!!!

And... no Coming Home? seems weird...
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: RodrigoAltaf on February 04, 2018, 05:49:03 AM
Yeah, I thought it was strange too, one of the songs they made a video for was not played live. But they´ll have a second set on the cruise, so it might be played.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Mister Gold on February 04, 2018, 05:51:07 AM
They played their first ever concert last night at Cruise to the Edge, and here´s the setlist:

God of the Sun
Signs of the Time
Labyrinth
Billy Sheehan´s bass solo
Lost in Oblivion
Prophet Song/Save Me (Queen covers)
Alive
Opus Maximus
Derek solo
LINES IN THE FCUKING SAND!!!!

Okay, I have to hear how JSS sounds on Lines In The Sand! :metal
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: MinistroRaven on February 04, 2018, 06:07:11 AM
They played their first ever concert last night at Cruise to the Edge, and here´s the setlist:

God of the Sun
Signs of the Time
Labyrinth
Billy Sheehan´s bass solo
Lost in Oblivion
Prophet Song/Save Me (Queen covers)
Alive
Opus Maximus
Derek solo
LINES IN THE FCUKING SAND!!!!

And they recorded the whole thing for a live release in BLURAY/DVD/CD/CD in a super special packing hand numbered and signed by the whole band
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: devieira73 on February 04, 2018, 06:13:22 AM
It seems a shortened, setlist, right? I guess they will play more songs on a more "normal" show. Anyway, I was curious about the setlist, cool!
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: TAC on February 04, 2018, 06:20:20 AM
I'm glad there's only one DT song in the setlist, especially as the last song. I think that's the way to do this.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Mister Gold on February 04, 2018, 06:25:24 AM
They played their first ever concert last night at Cruise to the Edge, and here´s the setlist:

God of the Sun
Signs of the Time
Labyrinth
Billy Sheehan´s bass solo
Lost in Oblivion
Prophet Song/Save Me (Queen covers)
Alive
Opus Maximus
Derek solo
LINES IN THE FCUKING SAND!!!!

And they recorded the whole thing for a live release in BLURAY/DVD/CD/CD in a super special packing hand numbered and signed by the whole band

Seriously?! Shit, I'm legit jealous. If there's any way to get a copy of that release at a decent price, I'll be looking for it. :metal
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: devieira73 on February 04, 2018, 06:31:00 AM

Sorry but you got the emphasis wrong. THEY PLAYED THE PROPHET'S SONG!!!!! Need a video ASAP!!!!


I think that was extremely cool! I would love if they play covers on the more "B-sides" ou less known songs of the classic bands. They really did that vocal part of Queen song live?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on February 04, 2018, 06:37:31 AM
It seems a shortened, setlist, right? I guess they will play more songs on a more "normal" show. Anyway, I was curious about the setlist, cool!

Yea, Im guessing there will be more for their headline gigs.  I actually tweeted them saying to play the full album and more and both Bumblefoot and Derek liked it, so I think that's a possibility.  Since there's another set on this cruise, maybe we see the rest of the album and different covers.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: KevShmev on February 04, 2018, 06:39:41 AM
I can see it now: fans are going to be more excited about this new band playing covers than their own songs. :lol :lol
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: goo-goo on February 04, 2018, 06:49:12 AM
Jeff's brother just passed a day or two ago. Not sure if the initial tour dates could be cancelled because of this.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: RodrigoAltaf on February 04, 2018, 06:51:20 AM
I can see it now: fans are going to be more excited about this new band playing covers than their own songs. :lol :lol

Not really, it´s more a case of curiosity about how they will fill their setlist, particularly with the Dream Theater songs from FII. And Jeff has done Queen tributes in the past, Prophet´s Song is a hidden gem in the band´s catalogue, hence the excitement.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Mister Gold on February 04, 2018, 06:54:55 AM
I can see it now: fans are going to be more excited about this new band playing covers than their own songs. :lol :lol

:lol I mean, the prospects of hearing Jeff Scott Soto sing over one of Dream Theater's best songs does have me excited! I generally like his voice more than James', so I'm curious to hear his take on such an iconic DT song.

That said, I do like the band's own original material so far. I think a song like Labyrinth or God of the Sun would be awesome to see played live. The big thing for me is seeing how these guys will try to progress and define their distinct sound moving forward.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Elite on February 04, 2018, 07:05:20 AM
They have March-June free, so I assume those will be filled up at some point.

Mike will be in the studio with his new band during those months.

Sorry to steal the momentum, but I had to give a shout out to this post: holy shit :lol :lol
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: MirrorMask on February 04, 2018, 07:11:23 AM

Sorry but you got the emphasis wrong. THEY PLAYED THE PROPHET'S SONG!!!!! Need a video ASAP!!!!


I think that was extremely cool! I would love if they play covers on the more "B-sides" ou less known songs of the classic bands. They really did that vocal part of Queen song live?

I wasn't there, but since the setlist says "Prophet's Song / Save Me", I would assume they skipped the a cappella part by going into Save Me instead. We'll see!
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: DT2003 on February 04, 2018, 07:20:40 AM
I find it amusing how they bashed DT while promoting this album while proclaiming to be the new kings of prog, and then their first show ever they close with a DT song.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: RodrigoAltaf on February 04, 2018, 07:24:11 AM
I find it amusing how they bashed DT while promoting this album while proclaiming to be the new kings of prog, and then their first show ever they close with a DT song.

 They bashed what DT has become, not what it was when they were in the band.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: KevShmev on February 04, 2018, 07:27:22 AM
What has DT "become"?

DT is really no different than they've always been, despite the member changes, so really their bashing came off more as scorned lovers throwing fits than anything else.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: RodrigoAltaf on February 04, 2018, 07:30:21 AM
What has DT "become"?

DT is really no different than they've always been, despite the member changes, so really their bashing came off more as scorned lovers throwing fits than anything else.

 You have to ask Derek and MP - I didn´t bash DT! And I´m not saying they´re right, I was just stating that that´s what they meant.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Mister Gold on February 04, 2018, 07:34:21 AM
I find it amusing how they bashed DT while promoting this album while proclaiming to be the new kings of prog, and then their first show ever they close with a DT song.

I mean, personally speaking, Psychotic Symphony trounces The Astonishing and the self-titled release. It might not be groundbreaking, but has Dream Theater themselves really been all that original lately? That's not a slight against the guys in DT, as I'd probably rank ADToE as a better album over PS, but aren't all of the parties involved kind of at that stage in their careers where they're more likely to close out their shows with a song they wrote earlier in their careers rather than sooner?

Sons of Apollo, despite Derek and Mike's self-proclamations and hype, aren't the new Kings of Prog (that's going to be Witherfall, I think :biggrin: ). But as far as a new prog metal band made up from five renowned musicians go, they're not all that bad either. I see Sons of Apollo being akin more to something like Black Country Communion right now. They're not going to reinvent the wheel, but they've got serious talent and aren't bad at writing songs.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: KevShmev on February 04, 2018, 07:49:40 AM
What has DT "become"?

DT is really no different than they've always been, despite the member changes, so really their bashing came off more as scorned lovers throwing fits than anything else.

 You have to ask Derek and MP - I didn´t bash DT! And I´m not saying they´re right, I was just stating that that´s what they meant.

How do you know what they meant? :P
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: RodrigoAltaf on February 04, 2018, 07:58:50 AM
What has DT "become"?

DT is really no different than they've always been, despite the member changes, so really their bashing came off more as scorned lovers throwing fits than anything else.

 You have to ask Derek and MP - I didn´t bash DT! And I´m not saying they´re right, I was just stating that that´s what they meant.

How do you know what they meant? :P

That´s how I understood, based on Derek´s comments about cheesy apps.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: SwedishGoose on February 04, 2018, 11:53:23 AM
I would argue that The Astonishing is much more groundbreaking than Psycotic Symphony. Might not be to everyones tastes but I wish Sons of Apollo had had 1/100th of the ambition Dream Theater showed with TA.

Had they poured a bit more effort into it it might have turned out OK.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: mikeyd23 on February 04, 2018, 01:57:05 PM
I find it amusing how they bashed DT while promoting this album while proclaiming to be the new kings of prog, and then their first show ever they close with a DT song.

I mean, personally speaking, Psychotic Symphony trounces The Astonishing and the self-titled release. It might not be groundbreaking, but has Dream Theater themselves really been all that original lately? That's not a slight against the guys in DT, as I'd probably rank ADToE as a better album over PS, but aren't all of the parties involved kind of at that stage in their careers where they're more likely to close out their shows with a song they wrote earlier in their careers rather than sooner?

Sons of Apollo, despite Derek and Mike's self-proclamations and hype, aren't the new Kings of Prog (that's going to be Witherfall, I think :biggrin: ). But as far as a new prog metal band made up from five renowned musicians go, they're not all that bad either. I see Sons of Apollo being akin more to something like Black Country Communion right now. They're not going to reinvent the wheel, but they've got serious talent and aren't bad at writing songs.

You might not like TA, but it was certainly DT pushing boundaries and doing something original.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: devieira73 on February 04, 2018, 02:26:04 PM
Anyone knows when it’s the next show on the cruise? Thanks!
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Mister Gold on February 04, 2018, 02:38:31 PM
I find it amusing how they bashed DT while promoting this album while proclaiming to be the new kings of prog, and then their first show ever they close with a DT song.

I mean, personally speaking, Psychotic Symphony trounces The Astonishing and the self-titled release. It might not be groundbreaking, but has Dream Theater themselves really been all that original lately? That's not a slight against the guys in DT, as I'd probably rank ADToE as a better album over PS, but aren't all of the parties involved kind of at that stage in their careers where they're more likely to close out their shows with a song they wrote earlier in their careers rather than sooner?

Sons of Apollo, despite Derek and Mike's self-proclamations and hype, aren't the new Kings of Prog (that's going to be Witherfall, I think :biggrin: ). But as far as a new prog metal band made up from five renowned musicians go, they're not all that bad either. I see Sons of Apollo being akin more to something like Black Country Communion right now. They're not going to reinvent the wheel, but they've got serious talent and aren't bad at writing songs.

You might not like TA, but it was certainly DT pushing boundaries and doing something original.

I'm not entirely sure how DT taking the plot of Rush's 2112 and stretching it out into a two hour long album is "pushing the boundaries." I respect the band's ambition on that album, but I personally don't think it's particularly original either.

Your mileage obviously may vary.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Ben_Jamin on February 04, 2018, 02:50:15 PM
I find it amusing how they bashed DT while promoting this album while proclaiming to be the new kings of prog, and then their first show ever they close with a DT song.

I mean, personally speaking, Psychotic Symphony trounces The Astonishing and the self-titled release. It might not be groundbreaking, but has Dream Theater themselves really been all that original lately? That's not a slight against the guys in DT, as I'd probably rank ADToE as a better album over PS, but aren't all of the parties involved kind of at that stage in their careers where they're more likely to close out their shows with a song they wrote earlier in their careers rather than sooner?

Sons of Apollo, despite Derek and Mike's self-proclamations and hype, aren't the new Kings of Prog (that's going to be Witherfall, I think :biggrin: ). But as far as a new prog metal band made up from five renowned musicians go, they're not all that bad either. I see Sons of Apollo being akin more to something like Black Country Communion right now. They're not going to reinvent the wheel, but they've got serious talent and aren't bad at writing songs.

You might not like TA, but it was certainly DT pushing boundaries and doing something original.

I'm not entirely sure how DT taking the plot of Rush's 2112 and stretching it out into a two hour long album is "pushing the boundaries." I respect the band's ambition on that album, but I personally don't think it's particularly original either.

Your mileage obviously may vary.

They are not really the same plot.

One finds "the ancient miracle" hiding in cave, discovers its beauty and goes to the priests to show them the world could use this. But being the priests in power, they already know what it can do, and decide to break it.

How is that related to...

Ravenskill Militia leader's brother has a gift of creating/making something beautiful that unites the town. Emperor finds out the power it has over people (some calling him Saviour) doesn't want his reign overthrown, decides to find out himself. Sees the saviour falling for his Daughter, gets angry and tells him to surrenddr himself in 3 days or else entire town dies.


The only thing related is Music being a gift/ancient miracle.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: the keyboard wizard on February 05, 2018, 01:00:21 AM
Anyone knows when it’s the next show on the cruise? Thanks!
I'm pretty sure it's next Tuesday.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: noxon on February 05, 2018, 02:48:55 AM
DT fans are impossible. "I WANT ORIGINAL STUFF" - DT creates a 2 cd rock opera unlike anything they've ever done before. "WAAH, I DIDN'T WANT THAT; I WANTED THE STUFF THAT SOUNDED LIKE WHAT THEY DID BEFORE!".

"DT ARE GETTING STALE" - "WAH, DT IS MAKING MUSIC THATS TOO DIFFERENT FROM WHAT THEY USED TO MAKE".

It's a sea of contradicitions.

And then comes along an album that literally rests on cliches; "OOOH, SHINY!"
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Train of Naught on February 05, 2018, 03:30:59 AM
I think the originality, or "unlike anything they've ever done before" factor is heavily overstated on this forum, it's not like they treaded completely new ground musically. Its length is longer than average, sure, but that doesn't mean they unraveled a new sound per se.

I think it has some great moments and honestly a step up from DT12, especially James sounded way better on TA, but I just don't get what's particularly original about the music compared to most of their other albums?

And to go slightly back on topic, I think it's very cool that SoA covered Prophet's Song, and at the same time super reliefed that they (according to the comments here) left out that acappella section :lol
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: MirrorMask on February 05, 2018, 03:44:00 AM
No, wait, I only *assumed* that since the setlist was saying "Prophet's Song / Save Me", the a cappella section was a natural moment to change song for the medley.

Furthermore, that is not reported on Setlist.fm, are the YouTube clips already of that?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Mister Gold on February 05, 2018, 05:01:10 AM
DT fans are impossible. "I WANT ORIGINAL STUFF" - DT creates a 2 cd rock opera unlike anything they've ever done before. "WAAH, I DIDN'T WANT THAT; I WANTED THE STUFF THAT SOUNDED LIKE WHAT THEY DID BEFORE!".

"DT ARE GETTING STALE" - "WAH, DT IS MAKING MUSIC THATS TOO DIFFERENT FROM WHAT THEY USED TO MAKE".

It's a sea of contradicitions.

And then comes along an album that literally rests on cliches; "OOOH, SHINY!"

Not sure if you're referring to me or not- but for the record, I'm not a huge DT fan, at least not in the same way most folks here are. I like the band and admire their best albums, but I'm here more for the General Music section of the forum and to interact with other fans of the same general type of music I enjoy.

I just don't care much for The Astonishing. That's my opinion. I don't go out of my way to make a big deal about it, because I know most folks here don't agree with my thoughts on it and that's fine. My opinions are my opinions- same goes for literally every person in this forum that adores it, thinks it's okay or thinks it's garbage.

And I make no claims that Sons of Apollo are doing anything new- they aren't. I just happen to think that for a debut album from a prog metal band consisting entirely of men in their fifties, it's not bad and does what it does well. It's not groundbreaking or original, but it's done well.

That doesn't make the album better than Dream Theater's greatest works- because frankly it'd be hard for most any band to do that, especially under these circumstances. I just happen to like it better than The Astonishing and probably Dream Theater's self-titled album (it's been ages since I last revisited that one). A Dramatic Turn of Events is very blatantly Dream Theater returning to a sound more akin to Images & Words to play it safe in introduce the fanbase to their new drummer, but that doesn't change the album from being pretty damn awesome, does it?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Ben_Jamin on February 05, 2018, 05:03:37 AM
I think the originality, or "unlike anything they've ever done before" factor is heavily overstated on this forum, it's not like they treaded completely new ground musically. Its length is longer than average, sure, but that doesn't mean they unraveled a new sound per se.

I think it has some great moments and honestly a step up from DT12, especially James sounded way better on TA, but I just don't get what's particularly original about the music compared to most of their other albums?



Am I the only one saying that The Astonishing is musically akin to 6DOIT (the song). About to Crash is The Gift of Music and Goodnight Kiss is The Answer...also, Solitary Shell is Saviour in The Square. Its not easy to miss....

I'm just saying I love The Astonishing...


But I don't enjoy Sons of Apollo because it SOUNDS a lot like THE WINERY DOGS with KEYBOARDS. TWD sounded too generic like CHICKENFOOT. Great musicians just generic song writing. And it all sounded the same to me....I was expecting Sammy Hagar to sing Dreams style lyrics in Labyrinth.

All this discussion just has me in tears laughing. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: RodrigoAltaf on February 05, 2018, 05:51:47 AM
No, wait, I only *assumed* that since the setlist was saying "Prophet's Song / Save Me", the a cappella section was a natural moment to change song for the medley.

Furthermore, that is not reported on Setlist.fm, are the YouTube clips already of that?

I think that it's not reported on Setlisfm because the concert was on a cruise, and access to the internet may not be easy. I took the setlist from MP's group on Facebook. There's one guy who recorded the whole show and will ask for MP's permission to post on YouTube.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: MirrorMask on February 05, 2018, 06:09:43 AM
Ah, ok then. Looking forward to that!
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: devieira73 on February 05, 2018, 06:31:00 AM
Anyone knows when it’s the next show on the cruise? Thanks!
I'm pretty sure it's next Tuesday.
Cool, I'm really curious about the DT and cover songs in the next setlist.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bill1971 on February 05, 2018, 09:02:45 AM
So uh, given the controversy that hit the web while the album was first coming out, I mostly avoided listening to the Sons of Apollo debut. Finally decided to give it a spin the other night and I have a feeling a lot of folks here aren't going to be happy- but I think I like it better than most Dream Theater albums? :lol

For the record, I don't think Psychotic Symphony is even remotely on par with any of Dream Theater's top four albums (i.e. Images & Words, Awake, SFAM and Six Degrees)- but I think I like it about as much as I do say Train of Thought, Falling Into Infinity or A Dramatic Turn of Events.

It's not a very original album by any means, but I think the band has promise. If Mike is able to stick to a particular band for once and keep at it for a second or third album, I think Sons of Apollo have potential to do something pretty good. They just need to experiment a bit more and offer something new to the table. The talent and chemistry is there and the songs on PS actually aren't bad.

I am VERY unhappy about your comment. I do not like it so therefor no one should. I will not stop bashing it ever until I convince everyone of my opinion either by putting the music down or if need be you personally for having such bad tastes.

-Sincerely Unhappy Bill







 :angel:
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: The Silent Cody on February 05, 2018, 09:23:32 AM
I don't know if someone posted it before, but setlist from first Soa show was:

God of the Sun
Signs of the Time
Labyrinth
Bass Solo
Lost in Oblivion
Alive
Opus Maximus
Keyboard Solo
Lines in the Sand

As You can see not much covers, I was expecting Lines In The Sand to be honest ;)
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bill1971 on February 05, 2018, 09:31:52 AM
Jeff's brother just passed a day or two ago. Not sure if the initial tour dates could be cancelled because of this.

That is really sad. Having two brothers I can't imagine how tough that would be for him.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Adami on February 05, 2018, 09:36:09 AM
I don't know if someone posted it before, but setlist from first Soa show was:

God of the Sun
Signs of the Time
Labyrinth
Bass Solo
Lost in Oblivion
Alive
Opus Maximus
Keyboard Solo
Lines in the Sand

As You can see not much covers, I was expecting Lines In The Sand to be honest ;)

I mean, obviously they were going to do LiTS, but closing on a DT song feels odd for a band trying to establish themselves.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: The Walrus on February 05, 2018, 10:11:06 AM
Very strange that Derek and Mike want to act like DT isn't shit without them but won't even play their own original lead single... lol...
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Nick on February 05, 2018, 10:16:29 AM
Very strange that Derek and Mike want to act like DT isn't shit without them but won't even play their own original lead single... lol...

They have another show on the cruise, my guess is they'll be rotating other material into that set.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bosk1 on February 05, 2018, 11:04:26 AM
Sons of Apollo, despite Derek and Mike's self-proclamations and hype, aren't the new Kings of Prog (that's going to be Witherfall, I think :biggrin: ). But as far as a new prog metal band made up from five renowned musicians go, they're not all that bad either. I see Sons of Apollo being akin more to something like Black Country Communion right now. They're not going to reinvent the wheel, but they've got serious talent and aren't bad at writing songs.

I don't particularly agree with your assessment of recent DT, but your take on Sons of Apollo is VERY similar to mine.  I like the BCC comparison and think it is pretty spot on. 

But I don't enjoy Sons of Apollo because it SOUNDS a lot like THE WINERY DOGS with KEYBOARDS. 

Wow, that comparison is really confusing to me.  I don't get TWD from Sons of Apollo at all.  Not even a little bit.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: DT2003 on February 05, 2018, 06:11:49 PM
Other than a few listens when this album first came out, I haven’t listened to it at all. I think all the crap that went on beforehand just really left a bad taste in my mouth. With that said I listened again today and really enjoyed some of it. I definitely want to give this album some more listens as I think if I give it a legitamate shot, I’ll really like it.

I have to agree with bosk1 that I don’t hear any similarity between this and The Winery Dogs at all.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Mister Gold on February 05, 2018, 07:56:32 PM
Sons of Apollo, despite Derek and Mike's self-proclamations and hype, aren't the new Kings of Prog (that's going to be Witherfall, I think :biggrin: ). But as far as a new prog metal band made up from five renowned musicians go, they're not all that bad either. I see Sons of Apollo being akin more to something like Black Country Communion right now. They're not going to reinvent the wheel, but they've got serious talent and aren't bad at writing songs.

I don't particularly agree with your assessment of recent DT, but your take on Sons of Apollo is VERY similar to mine.  I like the BCC comparison and think it is pretty spot on. 

To be fair to recent DT, it has been awhile since I last listened to the self-titled release. I didn't hate that album or anything when it came out, I just never felt very compelled to bother going back and revisiting it.

The Astonishing on the other hand... I'm sorry, I've tried to enjoy that album way too many times and it's never clicked for me. More power to everyone in this thread who does enjoy it and props to the band for having the guts to make a two hour long album, but I just don't care for it.

Like I said though, A Dramatic Turn of Events is a superb album and one of the best from the band. I have hopes the next album will be like that too. :tup
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Ben_Jamin on February 05, 2018, 08:01:17 PM
Its mainly the sound Billy Sheehan and Mike Portnoy have, plus JSS vocals sounding more casual.

I enjoy some songs on the album but I do wish they could've worked more on the vocals...Theyre the usual Rock 80's vocals where they use "Yeah" and "baby" every other word.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: IDontNotDoThings on February 05, 2018, 09:42:53 PM
DT fans are impossible. "I WANT ORIGINAL STUFF" - DT creates a 2 cd rock opera unlike anything they've ever done before. "WAAH, I DIDN'T WANT THAT; I WANTED THE STUFF THAT SOUNDED LIKE WHAT THEY DID BEFORE!".

"DT ARE GETTING STALE" - "WAH, DT IS MAKING MUSIC THATS TOO DIFFERENT FROM WHAT THEY USED TO MAKE".

It's a sea of contradicitions.

And then comes along an album that literally rests on cliches; "OOOH, SHINY!"

That is a 100% accurate representation of what Dream Theater fans are definitely saying. Good job.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: devieira73 on February 06, 2018, 04:48:39 AM
the second show will be tonight:
https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=10155994730891877&id=36797576876
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bill1971 on February 06, 2018, 10:21:37 AM
the second show will be tonight:
https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=10155994730891877&id=36797576876

Hopefully someone gets it on video this time. I predict on a full show they play A Change of Seasons to close.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: RodrigoAltaf on February 06, 2018, 10:51:35 AM
the second show will be tonight:
https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=10155994730891877&id=36797576876

Hopefully someone gets it on video this time. I predict on a full show they play A Change of Seasons to close.

I bet on that too!!!
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Cool Chris on February 06, 2018, 01:08:59 PM
Nothing like seeing a new band start off a tour by playing a song two of the members recorded with another band 20 years ago!
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: RodrigoAltaf on February 06, 2018, 01:29:22 PM
Nothing like seeing a new band start off a tour by playing a song two of the members recorded with another band 20 years ago!

Hey Debbie Downer! SNL called...they want their sketch back.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Adami on February 06, 2018, 01:29:38 PM
Nothing like seeing a new band start off a tour by playing a song two of the members recorded with another band 20 years ago!

Especially when those two songs end up being around 1/3 or more of the show time.


I hope they don't play ACOS. It's weird enough they're closing on a DT song, which I also hope changes soon enough.

Playing some covers is fine. Playing a DT song is fine. Closing on one just is odd unless you've really really established yourself.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on February 06, 2018, 01:56:06 PM
ACOS makes little sense to me as well.  LitS makes some sense.  I guess the whole part that's weird about it all is they spent a good amount of time making fun of the band they are covering.  I get it, they are making fun of the current state of the band, but it doesn't really matter honestly.  They look like idiots for doing that before and they still look like idiots by performing DT music after it's all said and done.

Anyway, I'd expect more covers from other bands.  THey are supposed to do a covers set in the fall so I guess they need to perform more covers, unless they are just going to a DT set at that Plovdiv show.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: The Walrus on February 06, 2018, 01:58:07 PM
I'll go see them if they play ACOS just to sing alternate lyrics. "I'm sick of all your vicious tweets, slamming James LaBrie / and I don't need Del Fuvios to get me through the day"
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ErHaO on February 06, 2018, 01:59:51 PM
I like seeing good musicians cover good songs, so wouldn't mind ACOS (or an abridged version of it). That said, I do think they should close the setlist with one of their own songs.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on February 06, 2018, 02:04:28 PM
I like seeing good musicians cover good songs, so wouldn't mind ACOS (or an abridged version of it). That said, I do think they should close the setlist with one of their own songs.

Maybe.  A lot of bands close sets with cover songs, it's not that rare.  But I really don't think LitS is a good closer song, as much as I love it.  That's a strong middle setlist type of song IMO.  They should do a Panama cover for the encore.  End it with something that gets people wild.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bill1971 on February 06, 2018, 03:49:50 PM
MIKE PORTNOY On 'Prioritizing' SONS OF APOLLO: 'This Isn't Just Some Sort Of Recording Project; This Is A Real Band'

We're amazed at the electricity we felt playing together yesterday, so we're dying to take this on the road. We want to try to take a different approach from any of my other projects, whether it's Liquid Tension or Transatlantic or my cover bands - those have been kind of one-off things. With Adrenaline Mob, we really want to treat this as a real touring entity. A real band. It won't be our only band, but it'll be something we come back to.  -MP

As far as Portnoy is concerned, the more original material to cull from live, the better.  “This time around, I’m looking forward to having two albums and 25 or so of our own songs to choose from,” he says.  “We can even keep the set completely, exclusively Winery Dogs material if we want.  That’s the sign of a real band.  When the first album came out, a lot of people were writing us off as a supergroup or whatever, but we wanted people to understand this wasn’t just a ‘project.’  It’s a legitimate band, and we want to make many albums together in the future.”



I really hope for his sake this pans out.


Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: pg1067 on February 06, 2018, 04:15:20 PM
As far as Portnoy is concerned, the more original material to cull from live, the better.  “This time around, I’m looking forward to having two albums and 25 or so of our own songs to choose from,” he says.  “We can even keep the set completely, exclusively Winery Dogs material if we want.  That’s the sign of a real band.

It is?  The sign of a "real band" is the ability to play a bunch of songs from the band members' prior bands?  Huh?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Orbert on February 06, 2018, 05:02:43 PM
Yeah, that was a serious WTF for me.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Adami on February 06, 2018, 05:03:40 PM
As far as Portnoy is concerned, the more original material to cull from live, the better.  “This time around, I’m looking forward to having two albums and 25 or so of our own songs to choose from,” he says.  “We can even keep the set completely, exclusively Winery Dogs material if we want.  That’s the sign of a real band.

It is?  The sign of a "real band" is the ability to play a bunch of songs from the band members' prior bands?  Huh?

Huh? He said to only play original material. Am I reading it wrong?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Orbert on February 06, 2018, 05:15:29 PM
"We can even keep the set completely, exclusively Winery Dogs material if we want.  That’s the sign of a real band."

The band he's talking about is not Winery Dogs, it's Sons of Apollo.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ProfessorPeart on February 06, 2018, 05:17:09 PM
As far as Portnoy is concerned, the more original material to cull from live, the better.  “This time around, I’m looking forward to having two albums and 25 or so of our own songs to choose from,” he says.  “We can even keep the set completely, exclusively Winery Dogs material if we want.  That’s the sign of a real band.

It is?  The sign of a "real band" is the ability to play a bunch of songs from the band members' prior bands?  Huh?

Huh? He said to only play original material. Am I reading it wrong?

That quote, wherever it came from was in reference to the difference between the 2 Winery Dogs tours. They padded the first tour with covers since it was 1 album. He made a comment that he wanted the second Winery Dogs tour to be only their songs to show it is a real band.

Because it is an MP quote, people are trying to find something to rip on him for even if what they find isn't actually there.

They have to pad the first SOA tour with covers since they only have one album. I imagine that if they make it to 2 albums and a 2nd tour that you probably won't see many covers, if any.

The Winery Dogs quote comes from the Bio for Hot Streak (copy and paste link):

www.ueginc.com/resources/The_Winery_Dogs/TheWineryDogs_Bio.docx

The title in Bill's post is from a Blabbermouth article in January. He seems to have meshed a title with 2 different story quotes.

https://www.blabbermouth.net/news/mike-portnoy-on-prioritizing-sons-of-apollo-this-isnt-just-some-sort-of-recording-project-this-is-a-real-band/
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ganpondorodf on February 06, 2018, 05:36:31 PM
Isn't he just making the point that Portnoy has said 'this is a real band' about a few different things over the years, and maybe we should take it with a pinch of salt?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Cool Chris on February 06, 2018, 05:43:20 PM
I imagine that if they make it to 2 albums and a 2nd tour that you probably won't see many covers, if any.

I LOLed at the first part, and disagree with the second. Mike likes playing music as much as he does making music. And part of that will always translate to playing covers.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: pcs90 on February 06, 2018, 06:14:47 PM
So then if I understand this correctly, according to the MP quotes, currently SoA is not a real band, right?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Orbert on February 06, 2018, 06:43:34 PM
That quote, wherever it came from was in reference to the difference between the 2 Winery Dogs tours. They padded the first tour with covers since it was 1 album. He made a comment that he wanted the second Winery Dogs tour to be only their songs to show it is a real band.

That was not clear at all.  In fact, it clearly seemed that either MP was confused about what band he was talking about, or that somehow Sons of Apollo would be a real band if they could play an entire show of Winery Dogs songs.

Because it is an MP quote, people are trying to find something to rip on him for even if what they find isn't actually there.

Or maybe because it's presented in a way to suggest that something is there.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Adami on February 06, 2018, 06:47:14 PM
Yea, took me a minute to realize it was just three separate, unrelated quotes.

SHAME ON YOU BILL!
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: MirrorMask on February 07, 2018, 01:11:56 AM
Isn't he just making the point that Portnoy has said 'this is a real band' about a few different things over the years, and maybe we should take it with a pinch of salt?

This.

Took me a while to get it, but it's clear the quotes are from different periods in time.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Stadler on February 07, 2018, 05:38:06 AM
For the life of me, I feel like this is a tempest in a teapot.   First, it's a cruise, so it's probably not exactly indicative of a touring setlist, and even though I hate the song itself, LITS doesn't surprise me one bit.  I don't see what the fuss is. 

To suggest that "playing a DT song in the final slot" is somehow indicative of a "real band" or not is sort of odd to me, especially since you have two guys in the band that played on that song. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: MirrorMask on February 07, 2018, 06:37:03 AM
For the life of me, I feel like this is a tempest in a teapot.   First, it's a cruise, so it's probably not exactly indicative of a touring setlist, and even though I hate the song itself, LITS doesn't surprise me one bit.  I don't see what the fuss is. 

To suggest that "playing a DT song in the final slot" is somehow indicative of a "real band" or not is sort of odd to me, especially since you have two guys in the band that played on that song.

Indeed!
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: DTA on February 07, 2018, 07:38:47 AM
Something from FII makes sense for them to play, but I feel like LITS is a bit too "important" to play as a cover if that makes any sense. It would easily become the centerpiece of their set since it's vastly superior to their original songs and more well-known, and would only serve to remind everyone just how inferior the songwriting is on Psychotic Symphony. Something like Hell's Kitchen, Burning My Soul, or Just Let me Breathe would be much better choices IMO if they absolutely have to play DT material. I would just choose other covers that are relevant to the genre/style of their music.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Stadler on February 07, 2018, 07:42:55 AM
Something from FII makes sense for them to play, but I feel like LITS is a bit too "important" to play as a cover if that makes any sense. It would easily become the centerpiece of their set since it's vastly superior to their original songs and more well-known, and would only serve to remind everyone just how inferior the songwriting is on Psychotic Symphony. Something like Hell's Kitchen, Burning My Soul, or Just Let me Breathe would be much better choices IMO if they absolutely have to play DT material. I would just choose other covers that are relevant to the genre/style of their music.

"Vastly superior" is an opinion - taste - and means nothing.  I think that song is one of the five worst DT songs in the catalogue, so there's that.    If I we're going to criticize LITS as a specific choice, it's not because it shames everything else in the set, but because it's a massive let down.  I just watched an hour and 15 of this cool new band, and we end on LITS?  That's like having a steak dinner and finishing with kale for dessert.  But I don't think the choice of ANY song from FII de-legitimizes the band any more or less than it already has been. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on February 07, 2018, 07:47:52 AM
It only delegitimizes (if it does at all) the band because of their own words against DT.  Not because of the song choice or the song placement in the set IMO. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: JayOctavarium on February 07, 2018, 08:57:53 AM
Show #2 per Setlist.fm

God of the Sun

Divine Addiction

Just Let Me Breathe

Labyrinth

The Prophet's Song/Save Me

Alive

The Pink Panther Theme

Opus Maximus

And the Cradle Will Rock...

Coming Home
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Adami on February 07, 2018, 09:03:13 AM
Show #2 per Setlist.fm

God of the Sun

Divine Addiction

Just Let Me Breathe

Labyrinth

The Prophet's Song/Save Me

Alive

The Pink Panther Theme

Opus Maximus

And the Cradle Will Rock...

Coming Home

Much better. Some interesting covers, but closing the set on their own song. Smart.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on February 07, 2018, 09:05:02 AM
I think that set's better too and honestly feel like JLMB is more SoA sounding than LitS so makes sense.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bosk1 on February 07, 2018, 09:07:34 AM
I think both sets were pretty cool, actually. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: devieira73 on February 07, 2018, 09:09:54 AM
Interesting that they didn’t play Just let me breathe and Lost in oblivion in the same set. IMO these two songs have a lot in common in terms of style/structure (which is a good thing).
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Adami on February 07, 2018, 09:10:18 AM
I think both sets were pretty cool, actually.

Indeed! This one is just smarter.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: devieira73 on February 07, 2018, 09:28:16 AM
Thinking about LiTS and the similarity beetwen JLMB and Lost in oblivion... it only occured me now something that I expected and it didn't have on Psychotic Symphony: a song with a prog jazzy feel like LiTS. Maybe on SoA 2?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Anxiety35 on February 07, 2018, 09:41:24 AM
Are there any videos up on YouTube from the shows?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bill1971 on February 07, 2018, 09:58:45 AM
Isn't he just making the point that Portnoy has said 'this is a real band' about a few different things over the years, and maybe we should take it with a pinch of salt?

Yes, it actually had nothing to do with playing covers. I understand that after only one album or even two you may have to play some covers. Heck DT even after multiple tours through in some covers.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bill1971 on February 07, 2018, 09:59:52 AM
Yea, took me a minute to realize it was just three separate, unrelated quotes.

SHAME ON YOU BILL!

.........I can see where that was unclear. That wasn't a real post.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bill1971 on February 07, 2018, 10:02:14 AM
Something from FII makes sense for them to play, but I feel like LITS is a bit too "important" to play as a cover if that makes any sense. It would easily become the centerpiece of their set since it's vastly superior to their original songs and more well-known, and would only serve to remind everyone just how inferior the songwriting is on Psychotic Symphony. Something like Hell's Kitchen, Burning My Soul, or Just Let me Breathe would be much better choices IMO if they absolutely have to play DT material. I would just choose other covers that are relevant to the genre/style of their music.

"Vastly superior" is an opinion - taste - and means nothing.  I think that song is one of the five worst DT songs in the catalogue, so there's that.    If I we're going to criticize LITS as a specific choice, it's not because it shames everything else in the set, but because it's a massive let down.  I just watched an hour and 15 of this cool new band, and we end on LITS?  That's like having a steak dinner and finishing with kale for dessert.  But I don't think the choice of ANY song from FII de-legitimizes the band any more or less than it already has been.

I like Kale. :)

and Santa Clause...

and the Wizard of Oz
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bosk1 on February 07, 2018, 10:04:07 AM
I like Kale, too.  But if you give it to me as a dessert, we're probably going to be stepping outside to settle our differences.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Nick on February 07, 2018, 10:11:15 AM
Until Raw Dog came out Just Let Me Breathe was always my least favorite DT song, so it's an understatement for me to say that any set that gets rid of Lines in the Sand and adds it has been majorly downgraded.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: pg1067 on February 07, 2018, 10:12:44 AM
That quote, wherever it came from was in reference to the difference between the 2 Winery Dogs tours. They padded the first tour with covers since it was 1 album. He made a comment that he wanted the second Winery Dogs tour to be only their songs to show it is a real band.

That was not clear at all.  In fact, it clearly seemed that either MP was confused about what band he was talking about, or that somehow Sons of Apollo would be a real band if they could play an entire show of Winery Dogs songs.

Because it is an MP quote, people are trying to find something to rip on him for even if what they find isn't actually there.

Or maybe because it's presented in a way to suggest that something is there.

Yeah...the way I read it was that Bill1971 was quoting an article about:  "MIKE PORTNOY On 'Prioritizing' SONS OF APOLLO: 'This Isn't Just Some Sort Of Recording Project; This Is A Real Band'"  As presented, it made it sound like he was saying SOA was a "real band" because they had the ability to play a set of exclusively Winery Dogs material (or, more generally, the ability to play songs done by the members' prior bands).  Apparently the point was that MP refers to all of his projects as "real bands" only to keep moving on to something different and only occasionally going back for more.  It's a little like a guy who refers to each woman he dates as his "girlfriend" but is really just a serial dater.



I like Kale, too.  But if you give it to me as a dessert, we're probably going to be stepping outside to settle our differences.

(https://images.memes.com/meme/1578482)
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Kwyjibo on February 07, 2018, 10:30:24 AM
Just Let Me Breathe is a cool addition and I really like that song. And it's more in the vein of their other material, only better.  :biggrin:
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Orbert on February 07, 2018, 10:46:15 AM
I want to hear a metal version of The Pink Panther theme.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: pcs90 on February 07, 2018, 10:54:39 AM
I want to hear a metal version of The Pink Panther theme.
This is honestly what I'm most curious about from the set :lol
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: gzarruk on February 07, 2018, 11:22:28 AM
I want to hear a metal version of The Pink Panther theme.
This is honestly what I'm most curious about from the set :lol

It's more of a Bumblefoot solo spot, he's done it before: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ePt2KhXdhM8
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bill1971 on February 07, 2018, 11:56:21 AM
I like Kale, too.  But if you give it to me as a dessert, we're probably going to be stepping outside to settle our differences.

Ok, I will be outside anyhow when Son's of Apollo are playing in my kitchen.

To touch back to my post about MP saying Real band three different times. I think I am being a bit unfair. The Winery Dogs he would have continued but Ritchie bailed. Amob was not making much money and MP bailed, can't blame him for that. His intention I am sure was to make it his commitment. The jury is still out on Sons of Apollo.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Orbert on February 07, 2018, 12:01:37 PM
I want to hear a metal version of The Pink Panther theme.
This is honestly what I'm most curious about from the set :lol

It's more of a Bumblefoot solo spot, he's done it before: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ePt2KhXdhM8

That was glorious!  Pretty much what I expected it would be, and everything I'd hoped it would be.

Mancini would've been proud.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bosk1 on February 07, 2018, 12:09:24 PM
I like Kale, too.  But if you give it to me as a dessert, we're probably going to be stepping outside to settle our differences.

Ok, I will be outside anyhow when Son's of Apollo are playing in my kitchen.

:lol

To touch back to my post about MP saying Real band three different times. I think I am being a bit unfair. The Winery Dogs he would have continued but Ritchie bailed. Amob was not making much money and MP bailed, can't blame him for that. His intention I am sure was to make it his commitment. The jury is still out on Sons of Apollo.

Yeah, I agree--I don't think either of those examples show any sort of chronic lack of commitment on Portnoy's part. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Orbert on February 07, 2018, 12:43:46 PM
I think it's interesting, and a little bit sad, that Mike uses the term "real band" as often as he does.  For so long, Dream Theater was his main gig, and everything else was just a side project.  One could argue that Transatlantic is a "real band" (as opposed to a group of guys who get together sometimes to make an album and tour), but things like AMob and Winery Dogs show how hard he's trying to get another main gig, a "real band" going.  He wants to be in a "real band" and seems to be trying to convince himself as much as everyone else that SoA is a "real band".

Honestly, I hope that Sons of Apollo manages to stay together long enough to make a second album.  Not only would it be hopefully more interesting than the first album, but I really do feel kinda sorry for Mike.  He wants so much to be in a "real band".

(https://imgur.com/x19yUud.gif)
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on February 07, 2018, 01:06:18 PM
I do feel bad in the regards that I think Winery Dogs has/had real potential to be that band.  They had some good success for a new band and while only my opinion, the music was fantastic.  But part of the problem of making bands out of members from other bands, is availability.  MP's best shot at a "real band" is with musicians who will commit to the band as thier full time job.  I feel bad Ritchie wanted to do something else leaving a hole in MP's schedule, but he had to know that was likely when forming such a band.  Same with SOA.  What happens when Mr Big wants to tour?  What about the holidays and TSO wants to tour? 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Tick on February 07, 2018, 01:10:27 PM
I like Kale
I like Turtles
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: The Walrus on February 07, 2018, 01:12:36 PM
(https://s18.postimg.org/6vsg9hb89/Untitled.jpg)

Hi, Mike Portnoy here, and boy do I have a product for you! Are you tired of your old music? Sick of playing the same old Flying Colors album? Not getting enough of me in your life? Well, put those fears to rest! Introducing "Sons of Apollo," the latest and greatest from me, Mike Portnoy! No need to switch to a different band - just throw on Psychotic Symphony, and enjoy the greatest music ever known! Who listens to Winery Dogs anymore? That's so 2013!  And the best part? Only $12.99! Order now and we'll throw in the Socks of Apollo for only another $4.99! Call now! 1-800-PROG GOD!
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: MinistroRaven on February 07, 2018, 01:13:43 PM
(https://s18.postimg.org/6vsg9hb89/Untitled.jpg)

Hi, Mike Portnoy here, and boy do I have a product for you! Are you tired of your old music? Sick of playing the same old Flying Colors album? Not getting enough of me in your life? Well, put those fears to rest! Introducing "Sons of Apollo," the latest and greatest from me, Mike Portnoy! No need to switch to a different band - just throw on Psychotic Symphony, and enjoy the greatest music ever known! Who listens to Winery Dogs anymore? That's so 2013!  And the best part? Only $12.99! Order now and we'll throw in the Socks of Apollo for only another $4.99! Call now! 1-800-PROG GOD!

Shut up and take my money
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: lucasembarbosa on February 07, 2018, 01:24:02 PM
I want to hear a metal version of The Pink Panther theme.

Panzerballett already did it:

https://open.spotify.com/track/5exT3yjWNsYN5HaWxCkuN4

Any news on videos from the performances?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Cool Chris on February 07, 2018, 01:40:57 PM
The Winery Dogs he would have continued but Ritchie bailed.

On the day SoA was announced (and would still today), I would have bet the farm that TWD wouldn't release another album.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ganpondorodf on February 07, 2018, 01:42:44 PM
Until Raw Dog came out Just Let Me Breathe was always my least favorite DT song, so it's an understatement for me to say that any set that gets rid of Lines in the Sand and adds it has been majorly downgraded.

What in the name of fuck does this mean?

The God of Language is throwing me some serious challenges here
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Samsara on February 07, 2018, 02:05:56 PM
Not a gigantic fan of "Just Let Me Breathe." It is probably my least favorite tune on FII. But I sincerely hope they work more FII in as time goes on. I don't need or really want to hear them do A Change of Seasons. But as a big fan of FII, which DT all but generally ignores now, it'd be nice to see them do some material from it.

No dates out west for SOA yet. But if they are near me, looking forward to checking them out. It'll be a fun gig.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bill1971 on February 08, 2018, 08:17:12 AM
Not a gigantic fan of "Just Let Me Breathe." It is probably my least favorite tune on FII. But I sincerely hope they work more FII in as time goes on. I don't need or really want to hear them do A Change of Seasons. But as a big fan of FII, which DT all but generally ignores now, it'd be nice to see them do some material from it.

No dates out west for SOA yet. But if they are near me, looking forward to checking them out. It'll be a fun gig.

I wouldn't be surprised to hear Raise The Knife either.

That's all I have for now.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Stadler on February 08, 2018, 08:20:25 AM
I want to hear a metal version of The Pink Panther theme.
This is honestly what I'm most curious about from the set :lol

It's more of a Bumblefoot solo spot, he's done it before: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ePt2KhXdhM8

When I saw Guns and Roses in 2010 in Philly (at a small club) Ron was noticeably absent from the stage for about half the set (I understand he may have been having some physical issues) but he did take his solo spot.  It was (at least in part, as memory serves) the "Pink Panther Theme" and it was (again, memory) pretty cool.  Best of the solo spots, I'll say that. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Stadler on February 08, 2018, 08:22:28 AM
I was going to pass on this round of dates (the nearest one to me is about 4 hours away; I know, "real fan", I got it) in anticipation of a date closer (and at a favorite venue that Mike plays a lot) but more and more I feel like the "massive world tour" is diminishing in scope as we speak. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: goo-goo on February 08, 2018, 08:34:22 AM
I'll be in Orlando next week and just bought tickets for the show. We'll see how it goes. But this would be my first time seeing Derek play live so I'm stoked for that. He is my favorite keyboard player.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on February 08, 2018, 09:06:31 AM
As the date gets closer and closer, I am getting more bummed about missing next week's show.  Gave my ticket to another DTF member so someone will enjoy it in my absence, but something about seeing these musicians in a small venue is really intriguing even if the album wasn't really that great to me.  And also, yea, I don't really know about the future of this band, but there's something unique about seeing the first run of shows.  Oh well, I can't just say no to work.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ReaperKK on February 08, 2018, 08:44:03 PM
I'd like to seem them if they were only closer to Charlotte, or if that date feel on a weekend .
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bill1971 on February 09, 2018, 08:31:26 AM
I'd like to seem them if they were only closer to Charlotte, or if that date feel on a weekend .

I'd like to see them if they were closer to where I lived, or if it was a Friday or Saturday, or nothing good was on TV, or if liked the album.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Tick on February 09, 2018, 09:48:32 AM
For a band who says they are dedicating all of 2018 to touring they sure haven't announced many shows so for and its February.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: goo-goo on February 09, 2018, 10:25:05 AM
For a band who says they are dedicating all of 2018 to touring they sure haven't announced many shows so for and its February.

They are hitting the European festival circle in the Summer. I think they will hit North America in the fall again.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bosk1 on February 09, 2018, 10:33:42 AM
It will have to be early Fall, because I think TSO starts touring in late Fall.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Cool Chris on February 09, 2018, 10:41:47 AM
But SoA is a REAL BAND, why would one of them go off and tour with another group??
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bill1971 on February 09, 2018, 10:56:49 AM
But SoA is a REAL BAND, why would one of them go off and tour with another group??

Especially for that never amount to anything band TSO
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: SwedishGoose on February 09, 2018, 10:57:02 AM
But SoA is a REAL BAND, why would one of them go off and tour with another group??

Yeah, wasn't 2018 set of to be a full year of touring for SOA.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: pg1067 on February 09, 2018, 11:03:12 AM
For a band who says they are dedicating all of 2018 to touring they sure haven't announced many shows so for and its February.

They are hitting the European festival circle in the Summer. I think they will hit North America in the fall again.

I don't know when the Euro festival circuit starts, but it's hard to believe they don't have at least a couple months between February 18 and whenever it starts.  Unless I missed something, they've got zero shows lined up west of the Mississippi.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: OpenYourEyes311 on February 09, 2018, 11:17:23 AM
I wouldn't be surprised to hear Raise The Knife either.

That's all I have for now.

I can't stand to listen to Raise the Knife since Mike left DT. The MP-penned lyrics make me cringe:

"I'll take the blame for these things that I say
'Cause I had the heart and the will and the courage to stay
Every day
I won't walk away"

...but you did. :tdwn

I think it would be weird if that was ever played again by either MP or DT
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Tick on February 09, 2018, 11:31:28 AM
For a band who says they are dedicating all of 2018 to touring they sure haven't announced many shows so for and its February.

They are hitting the European festival circle in the Summer. I think they will hit North America in the fall again.

I don't know when the Euro festival circuit starts, but it's hard to believe they don't have at least a couple months between February 18 and whether it starts.  Unless I missed something, they've got zero shows lined up west of the Mississippi.
Exactly. I mean I don't care how many shows they play but Mike really poured it on think saying things like...
"This is not a side project, this is a real band"

"We have cleared our schedules for 2018 to dedicate to a full blown tour"

Seriously, what is there like 10 North American dates? If that.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on February 09, 2018, 11:48:42 AM
He really shouldn't of said a lot of that stuff, but I am guessing that's what they wanted to do and this is the reality.  Maybe if the first run of shows is successful, we'll see another and bigger US tour later. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Stadler on February 09, 2018, 12:18:28 PM
For a band who says they are dedicating all of 2018 to touring they sure haven't announced many shows so for and its February.

They are hitting the European festival circle in the Summer. I think they will hit North America in the fall again.

I don't know when the Euro festival circuit starts, but it's hard to believe they don't have at least a couple months between February 18 and whether it starts.  Unless I missed something, they've got zero shows lined up west of the Mississippi.
Exactly. I mean I don't care how many shows they play but Mike really poured it on think saying things like...
"This is not a side project, this is a real band"

"We have cleared our schedules for 2018 to dedicate to a full blown tour"

Seriously, what is there like 10 North American dates? If that.

And of course the obvious:  if they "cleared our schedules", then TSO shouldn't be an issue.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bosk1 on February 09, 2018, 12:26:28 PM
I highly doubt that "clearing their schedules" means that Soto isn't doing TSO.  Come on now.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: MirrorMask on February 09, 2018, 12:29:02 PM
I highly doubt that "clearing their schedules" means that Soto isn't doing TSO.  Come on now.

Indeed. Let's be realistic. Nothing stops TSO.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: mikeyd23 on February 09, 2018, 12:30:12 PM
I highly doubt that "clearing their schedules" means that Soto isn't doing TSO.  Come on now.

I'm sure you are right, but technically if they did clear their schedules then he wouldn't be doing TSO  :lol
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bosk1 on February 09, 2018, 12:48:44 PM
I think you guys are being too literal. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bill1971 on February 09, 2018, 01:21:21 PM
I wouldn't be surprised to hear Raise The Knife either.

That's all I have for now.

I can't stand to listen to Raise the Knife since Mike left DT. The MP-penned lyrics make me cringe:

"I'll take the blame for these things that I say
'Cause I had the heart and the will and the courage to stay
Every day
I won't walk away"

...but you did. :tdwn

I think it would be weird if that was ever played again by either MP or DT

You're right> i retract my statement.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Stadler on February 09, 2018, 01:26:49 PM
I think you guys are being too literal.

Well, more facetious than anything else.  I have faith that "Mr. 86 Bands" (said respectfully) understands that his singer has a very special, very lucrative holiday presentation he's been doing for what, the better part of half a decade now?  Maybe more?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Madman Shepherd on February 09, 2018, 03:13:36 PM
I wouldn't be surprised to hear Raise The Knife either.

That's all I have for now.

I can't stand to listen to Raise the Knife since Mike left DT. The MP-penned lyrics make me cringe:

"I'll take the blame for these things that I say
'Cause I had the heart and the will and the courage to stay
Every day
I won't walk away"

...but you did. :tdwn

I think it would be weird if that was ever played again by either MP or DT

You're right> i retract my statement.

Yeah, that would be pretty weird.  Those lyrics are pretty cringey overall BUT I would buy a ticket in a heartbeat if I knew they were playing it.  It's a great song overall. 

As it stands, I've been vacillating about going ever since a gig in driving distance was announced.  Was close to pulling the trigger and then my friend said he bought Meet and Greet tickets so now I will either have to wait around for him or drive by myself which I'm fine with but I just don't know if I want to put that much effort into an underwhelming band that will probably play 3 songs I kind of dig, a bunch I don't, and either some of my least favorite or favorite DT songs. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Schurftkut on February 09, 2018, 03:53:05 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C9ADueslSrQ

still waiting for live performance videos...
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Schurftkut on February 10, 2018, 09:30:19 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tyLzroWqpMM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2UTMZV4O4Gs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4L4wFbL8AyM
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: RodrigoAltaf on February 10, 2018, 10:16:04 AM
On the Q&A Mike mentions whta is said in Opus Maximus..."we are now at the end of the solo".
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Madman Shepherd on February 10, 2018, 10:20:11 AM
Any word on their set list from last night?

Also, Jeff seems like a cool guy and a great singer, but what is with all of his hand gestures?  At times it seems like he is on the cheer squad more than fronting a rock band. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: goo-goo on February 10, 2018, 10:25:45 AM
Setlist from last night

https://www.setlist.fm/setlist/sons-of-apollo/2018/magic-city-casino-miami-fl-5beee330.html

God of the sun
Signs of the time
Divine Addiction
Just Let Me Breathe
Labyrinth
Bass Solo
Prophet's Song/Save Me
Alive
Pink Panther Theme
And the Cradle will Rock
Coming Home

I'm a bit excited to see them live on Sunday. I think Sons of Apollo is much better on a live setting.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Madman Shepherd on February 10, 2018, 10:28:23 AM
Was this another abbreviated set?  I thought starting last night it was going to be full but that seems a bit thin. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: RodrigoAltaf on February 10, 2018, 10:31:32 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tyLzroWqpMM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2UTMZV4O4Gs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4L4wFbL8AyM

I honestly don´t know where to look in those videos...everyone is KILLING on this band!!!
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: RodrigoAltaf on February 10, 2018, 10:34:35 AM
Was this another abbreviated set?  I thought starting last night it was going to be full but that seems a bit thin.

I think it was abbreviated too.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Destiny Of Chaos on February 10, 2018, 12:30:59 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tyLzroWqpMM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2UTMZV4O4Gs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4L4wFbL8AyM

These guys are incredible. No two ways about it.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: gmillerdrake on February 10, 2018, 12:40:39 PM
Glad you guys are liking the vids that were released. I’m not feeling or seeing it....but, that’s the Beauty of music.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ytserush on February 10, 2018, 01:25:36 PM
Glad you guys are liking the vids that were released. I’m not feeling or seeing it....but, that’s the Beauty of music.

I'm not either. Not feeling any connection at all. Maybe after a year on the road?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: pcs90 on February 10, 2018, 02:02:48 PM
Glad you guys are liking the vids that were released. I’m not feeling or seeing it....but, that’s the Beauty of music.

I'm not either. Not feeling any connection at all. Maybe after a year on the road?

Same. I was pretty bored honestly.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Metro on February 10, 2018, 02:08:45 PM
Yeah....still not doing anything for me. The energy is there, but the music is still dreadful. The LITS cover wasn't bad.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: pcs90 on February 10, 2018, 02:23:25 PM
Ironically I think the LITS cover was the best of the clips posted.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: The Walrus on February 10, 2018, 03:21:52 PM
I get that the LITS motif is the thing Derek is most known for but there's so much more to the song and the lyrics weren't even written by him or Mike, so I don't get it (especially since Mike did TSF with only songs he wrote lyrics to). But oh well. Good stage presence, not sure what the hell Soto is doing with his hands during those instrumental sections though.

It just... sounds like they want to be Dream Theater. That's not a dig at them just because they're SoA, it's something that tons of prog metal bands have suffered from. Watching that God of the Sun clip just made me think (especially in the solos) it's just DT, but not DT.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Cool Chris on February 10, 2018, 03:31:54 PM
Off-topic, but having worked for a cruise line (in the office, not on board the ships) for years, and one that catered more toward families and the elderly, seeing a rock/metal based cruise still rattles my brain a bit.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Anxiety35 on February 10, 2018, 05:42:25 PM
My thoughts on the 3 videos...

Overall, I'm not feeling it. They're playing well, but it's missing that "something." Not sure what it is. But hey, who am I? Just some guy at my computer. ;D

MP looks bored or like he's going though the motions. Not the same guy we saw on Shattered Fortress show videos.
Sheehan is great as always.
Derek is too low in the mix for me to have an honest opinion (I get that it's cell phone videos).
I don't get Soto's motions & gestures as a front man.
Bumblefoot is the star of this thing. Incredible guitarist and great stage presence.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Ben_Jamin on February 10, 2018, 06:00:00 PM
If these guys where coming anywhere close here, I would go and see them. They put on a good show, as I knew they would based on the style of music, it just calls for it.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Schurftkut on February 10, 2018, 07:37:19 PM
My thoughts on the 3 videos...

Overall, I'm not feeling it. They're playing well, but it's missing that "something." Not sure what it is. But hey, who am I? Just some guy at my computer. ;D

MP looks bored or like he's going though the motions. Not the same guy we saw on Shattered Fortress show videos.
Sheehan is great as always.
Derek is too low in the mix for me to have an honest opinion (I get that it's cell phone videos).
I don't get Soto's motions & gestures as a front man.
Bumblefoot is the star of this thing. Incredible guitarist and great stage presence.

pretty much agree with this, Ron seems to be the only one totally comfortable on stage playing these tunes. Jeff is peeking a lot at lyrics and tapdancing around trying to hit the right patches etc.. Wish there would be a video where you can hear the keyboards..
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Madman Shepherd on February 10, 2018, 08:43:04 PM
My thoughts on the 3 videos...

Overall, I'm not feeling it. They're playing well, but it's missing that "something." Not sure what it is.


I've always thought that cruise shows are a terrible representation of a band.  I've never been on one but part of the reason I haven't is because it seems like a giant gimmick.  Half ass production, shortened set, weird venue more suitable for Wayne Newton.  So I agree it's missing something but I think those reasons may be that "something."  At the same time, that's a good reason not to unveil something like this in a gimmicky setting. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Cool Chris on February 10, 2018, 09:42:08 PM
On the plus side, your crowd is already at the venue, so to speak. All you have to do is be more appealing than the casino or the buffet. No "I'd consider going, but I have to work the next day, it's a 2 hour drive, etc..."

I know members here have been on these types of cruises.... any thoughts from them?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: gzarruk on February 10, 2018, 09:46:50 PM
I don't get Soto's motions & gestures as a front man.
Bumblefoot is the star of this thing. Incredible guitarist and great stage presence.

My thoughts exactly.

His performance wasn't bad at all, but I just don't like what JSS is trying to do as a frontman, it bothers me.

Bumblefoot is, by far, the best musician on this band and he really seems to be enjoying playing these songs. Fantastic player.

The rest of the guys? Just meh.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Stadler on February 10, 2018, 10:11:39 PM
Wow, they are not making it easy on themselves, at least with me.  I was SOOOO open to this, and yet, at every turn it seems like it's moving farther and farther from what it could be and what it should be.    I really don't like LITS, particularly because of that vocal by Doug Pinnick.  I really don't like those screamy, pseudo-bluesy, quasi-soulful wailing kind of vocals... so what does JSS do?  Seems to sing the whole song in that voice.   

If its within 50 miles of me, I'll go, just to see Mike, since it will invariably be in a small place, and seeing Mike in a small place is always good.  I want to see Ron Thal again, too.   Having said that, I'm sure he's a great singer and a super guy, but Jeff isn't working for me in this combo.   
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Adami on February 10, 2018, 10:13:29 PM
It's also their first shows.

Maybe it'll improve in time. I'm sure once they start playing those 500 person clubs, MP will start acting much more lively and energetic.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on February 11, 2018, 06:41:02 AM
MP's TSF did DT much better than SOA judging from the one video of LitS.  I'm really struggling to get into JSS from the album but these live clips aren't helping. Bumblefoot once again impresses though, he's really shining from this.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: axeman90210 on February 11, 2018, 08:31:47 AM
On the plus side, your crowd is already at the venue, so to speak. All you have to do is be more appealing than the casino or the buffet. No "I'd consider going, but I have to work the next day, it's a 2 hour drive, etc..."

I know members here have been on these types of cruises.... any thoughts from them?

Nick has more experience than I do, but I went on Cruise to the Edge last year and had an absolute blast. Four days of waking up and bouncing between an all you can eat buffet and concerts, all surrounded by people who love the music at least as much as you do. It definitely helped that the lineup was stacked for my particular tastes as Portnoy's Shattered Fortress/birthday bash, Neal Morse Band, Pain of Salvation, Haken, Spock's Beard, and Frost* are all bands that I'd happily go see at a normal concert venue. That averaged out to three sets a day from bands I like/love, plus then the headliners (Yes, Steve Hackett, Kansas), the other bands on the ship, and the other events they have going on (Q&A sessions, photo ops, a daily late night covers jam session for the passengers). Is the sound as pristine as your normal concert venue? No. Do bands sometimes not have their full production going on? Yes. But you can't relax in a hot tub with a beer while watching Spock's Beard at a normal concert venue either, and being outside on the pool deck late at night jumping around to the breakdown in Haken's The Endless Knot is up there with my favorite live show memories. I probably wouldn't do a cruise again unless it was as great a lineup as CttE 2017 was for me, but if I did see a lineup that good I'd book it in a heartbeat.


Really looking forward to the SoA show on Thursday, I think it's going to be great to see these guys live in a super small venue.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bill1971 on February 11, 2018, 10:07:59 AM
Watching some of the clips on YouTube they definitely pull off the material live which seem to be obvious because they're all very talented. Soto sounds very good but seems ironically a little cheesy is a front man but still incredible voice and he seems like a really good guy.

I think the real Discovery here is Ron Thal very talented very cool guy.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bill1971 on February 11, 2018, 10:14:18 AM
My thoughts on the 3 videos...

Overall, I'm not feeling it. They're playing well, but it's missing that "something." Not sure what it is. But hey, who am I? Just some guy at my computer. ;D

MP looks bored or like he's going though the motions. Not the same guy we saw on Shattered Fortress show videos.
Sheehan is great as always.
Derek is too low in the mix for me to have an honest opinion (I get that it's cell phone videos).
I don't get Soto's motions & gestures as a front man.
Bumblefoot is the star of this thing. Incredible guitarist and great stage presence.

 Mike Portnoy has said he doesn't really like doing small shows so maybe that's why he was energy isn't there.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Adami on February 11, 2018, 10:17:35 AM
My thoughts on the 3 videos...

Overall, I'm not feeling it. They're playing well, but it's missing that "something." Not sure what it is. But hey, who am I? Just some guy at my computer. ;D

MP looks bored or like he's going though the motions. Not the same guy we saw on Shattered Fortress show videos.
Sheehan is great as always.
Derek is too low in the mix for me to have an honest opinion (I get that it's cell phone videos).
I don't get Soto's motions & gestures as a front man.
Bumblefoot is the star of this thing. Incredible guitarist and great stage presence.

 Mike Portnoy has said he doesn't really like doing small shows so maybe that's why he was energy isn't there.

Then the entire US run is going to suck for him.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: KevShmev on February 11, 2018, 10:18:55 AM
A true professional puts on the best show he/she can, regardless if they are playing in front of 20,000 or 200 people.

I saw Devin Townsend at a tiny venue last May here in St Louis, and despite the crowd being maybe 200-300 people, he had so much energy and enthusiasm, you would have thought he was playing to a stadium full of fans. That is what being a professional is all about.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Adami on February 11, 2018, 10:22:46 AM
Everyone else in the band, especially Thal an Soto seemed to have plenty of energy.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bill1971 on February 11, 2018, 11:54:31 AM
A true professional puts on the best show he/she can, regardless if they are playing in front of 20,000 or 200 people.

I saw Devin Townsend at a tiny venue last May here in St Louis, and despite the crowd being maybe 200-300 people, he had so much energy and enthusiasm, you would have thought he was playing to a stadium full of fans. That is what being a professional is all about.

You're right. I've seen Living Colour and Geoff Tate last year and they both performed as if it was a sold out MSG.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: DT2003 on February 11, 2018, 12:49:54 PM
A true professional puts on the best show he/she can, regardless if they are playing in front of 20,000 or 200 people.

This is what I was thinking. To be fair to Mike though he always seems to put on a great show. I have seen Mike live almost 40 times now with numerous bands and in all different size venues and I have never once left a show thinking that Mike wasn’t putting on the best show he could.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bill1971 on February 11, 2018, 02:07:31 PM
A true professional puts on the best show he/she can, regardless if they are playing in front of 20,000 or 200 people.

This is what I was thinking. To be fair to Mike though he always seems to put on a great show. I have seen Mike live almost 40 times now with numerous bands and in all different size venues and I have never once left a show thinking that Mike wasn’t putting on the best show he could.

Yes, I agree even if he isn't happy he still puts on a great show. Heck, Neil Peart hasn't been happy touring since the 80s and he always brought it. When he knew he couldn't anymore, he retired.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Peace and Love on February 11, 2018, 03:41:01 PM
I watched all the live videos posted so far and found them terribly boring.

Will agree with most here in that the only one who impressed me is the guitarist.

I apologise if this next comment is too harsh: visually and musically, I find this band very unappealing. Sheehan looks like a bored old grandpa up there, MP looks lethargic, and JSS really needs a hair and make up guy. I know it's prog and all that - but come on, just put some attention into your appearance if you're performing on a stage in front of a crowd.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Stadler on February 11, 2018, 03:59:32 PM
Yeah, Mike looked tired in those clips, but fair is fair:  last three times I've seen him it was in a 500 seat theater (twice) and a 1,000 seat club, and he NAILED it all three times.   I don't worry about tour; he may like the pomp of MSG better, but in my experience, that doesn't show on stage.   I don't know what was going on on the cruise. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: kaos2900 on February 12, 2018, 07:36:38 AM
Glad you guys are liking the vids that were released. I’m not feeling or seeing it....but, that’s the Beauty of music.

Me neither. The double guitars and Soto's outfit just looks so cliche and stupid (i tried to think of nicer way to say this but this is really the best word to describe my opinion).
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Nick on February 12, 2018, 07:55:32 AM
On the plus side, your crowd is already at the venue, so to speak. All you have to do is be more appealing than the casino or the buffet. No "I'd consider going, but I have to work the next day, it's a 2 hour drive, etc..."

I know members here have been on these types of cruises.... any thoughts from them?

Nick has more experience than I do, but I went on Cruise to the Edge last year and had an absolute blast. Four days of waking up and bouncing between an all you can eat buffet and concerts, all surrounded by people who love the music at least as much as you do. It definitely helped that the lineup was stacked for my particular tastes as Portnoy's Shattered Fortress/birthday bash, Neal Morse Band, Pain of Salvation, Haken, Spock's Beard, and Frost* are all bands that I'd happily go see at a normal concert venue. That averaged out to three sets a day from bands I like/love, plus then the headliners (Yes, Steve Hackett, Kansas), the other bands on the ship, and the other events they have going on (Q&A sessions, photo ops, a daily late night covers jam session for the passengers). Is the sound as pristine as your normal concert venue? No. Do bands sometimes not have their full production going on? Yes. But you can't relax in a hot tub with a beer while watching Spock's Beard at a normal concert venue either, and being outside on the pool deck late at night jumping around to the breakdown in Haken's The Endless Knot is up there with my favorite live show memories. I probably wouldn't do a cruise again unless it was as great a lineup as CttE 2017 was for me, but if I did see a lineup that good I'd book it in a heartbeat.


Really looking forward to the SoA show on Thursday, I think it's going to be great to see these guys live in a super small venue.

I've been on three cruises, but Axeman has summed things up nicely. All festivals have their advantages, with a place like RoSfest or NEARfest giving every band a long set and fantastic sound. Those two things are sometimes missing from the cruise, but all bands on all the cruises are given at least 2 sets of 1 hour minimum, which means they can play up to 2 hours of music, which is actually more than the 1.5 hours most bands get at RoSfest. Some bands on the cruise take full advantage, and other play the same hour of music twice. The cruise is also rather expensive and aside from the main theater none of the music venues are typically overly ideal.

All that said those trips have been far and away the best festival experiences I've had. It's a cruise, everything is taken care of, and everyone, fans and artists alike are constantly mingling and having a great time together. If you can afford it and see a lineup you like you should absolutely take advantage at least once and go.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bosk1 on February 12, 2018, 08:01:10 AM
Seems like it would be a fun thing to do.

As for the footage of SoA, I don't really understand any of the criticism.  If you don't like the album for whatever reason, you don't like the album.  So if it just boils down to, "I don't like the music on the album, so the live versions don't do anything for me," then I get it.  But most of the criticism that has been posted makes no sense to me whatsoever. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: chaotic_ripper on February 12, 2018, 09:24:46 AM
Is it possible that Mike is finally stretching himself too thin?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Destiny Of Chaos on February 12, 2018, 09:26:32 AM
The set for the first non-cruise show looks great. Get the whole album, plus the intriguing covers. I would love to hear them do the Prophet Song, one of my favorite Queen songs.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Anxiety35 on February 12, 2018, 09:37:24 AM
Seems like it would be a fun thing to do.

As for the footage of SoA, I don't really understand any of the criticism.  If you don't like the album for whatever reason, you don't like the album.  So if it just boils down to, "I don't like the music on the album, so the live versions don't do anything for me," then I get it.  But most of the criticism that has been posted makes no sense to me whatsoever.

I like the album. My criticism was based on what the performance appeared to be. The played well. From the videos it was just missing something in the live element. To me it wasn't a wow moment.

I don't think a cruise is the best way to showcase something new. It might have been good for the band to get some gigs in to iron out the kinks before their inland dates begin.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: MirrorMask on February 12, 2018, 09:39:06 AM
Seems like it would be a fun thing to do.

As for the footage of SoA, I don't really understand any of the criticism.  If you don't like the album for whatever reason, you don't like the album.  So if it just boils down to, "I don't like the music on the album, so the live versions don't do anything for me," then I get it.  But most of the criticism that has been posted makes no sense to me whatsoever.

I like the album. My criticism was based on what the performance appeared to be. The played well. From the videos it was just missing something in the live element. To me it wasn't a wow moment.

Well, the "something" missing is that you weren't there at the show  ;D sure, a video gives the general idea, but it's when you're actually there that you really "feel" (or not) the actual vibe of the gig.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on February 12, 2018, 09:41:23 AM
The set for the first non-cruise show looks great. Get the whole album, plus the intriguing covers. I would love to hear them do the Prophet Song, one of my favorite Queen songs.

Yea, that's kind of the set I expected them to play.  Pretty solid.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: JayOctavarium on February 12, 2018, 11:40:35 AM
I still cant figure out why Billy is playing a double neck :lol
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: gzarruk on February 12, 2018, 12:47:23 PM
I still cant figure out why Billy is playing a double neck :lol

This!

I mean, Bublefoot’s double neck guitar makes perfect sense, because one neck is fretted and the other is fretless, and that’s his signature thing to do, so that’s cool.
Billy’s double neck bass is just a gimmick, imo. As in “Ron is going to play everything with a double neck guitar, so I should bring a double neck bass because...double necks.”
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: pg1067 on February 12, 2018, 12:51:54 PM
I still cant figure out why Billy is playing a double neck :lol

This!

I mean, Bublefoot’s double neck guitar makes perfect sense, because one neck is fretted and the other is fretless, and that’s his signature thing to do, so that’s cool.
Billy’s double neck bass is just a gimmick, imo. As in “Ron is going to play everything with a double neck guitar, so I should bring a double neck bass because...double necks.”

It seemed like there were a LOT of hard rock/metal videos in the hey day of MTV with guys playing a double neck instrument for no apparent reason.  When I got exposed to Rush and saw them actually switching between the necks, I was blown away.  The other thing that never made any sense is when you've got a guitar with two six string necks or a bass with two four string necks.  I suppose they could have different tunings, but unless you're using both necks in the same song, there's just no point.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: The Walrus on February 12, 2018, 12:58:48 PM
Yeah but if he only used 1 neck it would throw off the symmetry on the album art and we all know 4 necks is more prog than 3
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: JayOctavarium on February 12, 2018, 01:35:18 PM
I still cant figure out why Billy is playing a double neck :lol

This!

I mean, Bublefoot’s double neck guitar makes perfect sense, because one neck is fretted and the other is fretless, and that’s his signature thing to do, so that’s cool.
Billy’s double neck bass is just a gimmick, imo. As in “Ron is going to play everything with a double neck guitar, so I should bring a double neck bass because...double necks.”

It seemed like there were a LOT of hard rock/metal videos in the hey day of MTV with guys playing a double neck instrument for no apparent reason.  When I got exposed to Rush and saw them actually switching between the necks, I was blown away.  The other thing that never made any sense is when you've got a guitar with two six string necks or a bass with two four string necks.  I suppose they could have different tunings, but unless you're using both necks in the same song, there's just no point.

I've watched most of the live videos so far on Youtube... And I have yet to see him use the top neck.

I thought maybe he had it strung with a low B or something for like Just Let Me Breathe or something... but nope.



Also side note: I actually really am enjoy the live vids. Bumblefoot  and JSS totally kill it!
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Schurftkut on February 12, 2018, 02:19:34 PM
the top neck is in a different tuning, low note is a B i think. Billy mentioned it a few times on his FB page.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: JayOctavarium on February 12, 2018, 02:26:12 PM
the top neck is in a different tuning, low note is a B i think. Billy mentioned it a few times on his FB page.


But...

Why?

When does he use it?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Lowdz on February 12, 2018, 02:37:02 PM
The set for the first non-cruise show looks great. Get the whole album, plus the intriguing covers. I would love to hear them do the Prophet Song, one of my favorite Queen songs.

I saw JSS at the Queen convention a few years ago, doing his Queen set. It was amazing. Don’t think he played The Prophet Song though.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Metro on February 12, 2018, 03:23:48 PM
the top neck is in a different tuning, low note is a B i think. Billy mentioned it a few times on his FB page.

Then why not just play a single-neck 5 string bass?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Schurftkut on February 12, 2018, 03:31:56 PM
look on his FB page, i'm too lazy to search for the part where he explains the "need" for a double neck besides looking cool and in harmony with the other guy's guitarino. Also, i think pretty much all the songs in the setlist are on youtube now, aside from the Prophet's Song?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: pg1067 on February 12, 2018, 03:50:15 PM
the top neck is in a different tuning, low note is a B i think. Billy mentioned it a few times on his FB page.

Then why not just play a single-neck 5 string bass?

I found this ( https://equipboard.com/pros/billy-sheehan/yamaha-custom-shop-attitude-double-neck ), which says the top neck is strung BEAD, which seems oddly limiting given how Billy plays.  I would agree that a standard BEADG 5-string is far more practical, but I did read some stuff that said Billy doesn't like 5-string necks, which is fine, and I'm all for double necks being cool, but they're unnecessary -- and therefore stupid -- if you aren't switching between the necks in a song.  Symmetry seems to be a really dumb reason to strap on an extra 10 pounds for an entire set.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: gzarruk on February 12, 2018, 03:59:36 PM
the top neck is in a different tuning, low note is a B i think. Billy mentioned it a few times on his FB page.

Then why not just play a single-neck 5 string bass?

I found this ( https://equipboard.com/pros/billy-sheehan/yamaha-custom-shop-attitude-double-neck ), which says the top neck is strung BEAD, which seems oddly limiting given how Billy plays.  I would agree that a standard BEADG 5-string is far more practical, but I did read some stuff that said Billy doesn't like 5-string necks, which is fine, and I'm all for double necks being cool, but they're unnecessary -- and therefore stupid -- if you aren't switching between the necks in a song.  Symmetry seems to be a really dumb reason to strap on an extra 10 pounds for an entire set.

I agree. There's nothing wrong with playing a double neck, but if he's not really using the one with the different tuning, then it's just dumb.

Most (if not all) of the set is here, btw: https://www.youtube.com/user/concertsrock/videos
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bosk1 on February 12, 2018, 04:05:01 PM
I DISagree.  Unnecessary does not equate to stupid.  How much that musicians do is really "necessary?" 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: MinistroRaven on February 12, 2018, 04:27:06 PM
the top neck is in a different tuning, low note is a B i think. Billy mentioned it a few times on his FB page.

Then why not just play a single-neck 5 string bass?

I found this ( https://equipboard.com/pros/billy-sheehan/yamaha-custom-shop-attitude-double-neck ), which says the top neck is strung BEAD, which seems oddly limiting given how Billy plays.  I would agree that a standard BEADG 5-string is far more practical, but I did read some stuff that said Billy doesn't like 5-string necks, which is fine, and I'm all for double necks being cool, but they're unnecessary -- and therefore stupid -- if you aren't switching between the necks in a song.  Symmetry seems to be a really dumb reason to strap on an extra 10 pounds for an entire set.

I agree. There's nothing wrong with playing a double neck, but if he's not really using the one with the different tuning, then it's just dumb.

Most (if not all) of the set is here, btw: https://www.youtube.com/user/concertsrock/videos

Thanks for the link
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Cool Chris on February 12, 2018, 04:41:32 PM
Wow I haven't listened to Just Let Me Breathe in forever. Thanks for reminding me why.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Schurftkut on February 12, 2018, 04:47:11 PM
yeah such an odd choice. I don't get why MP doesn't want to play fan favorites from DT if he didn't write the lyrics..
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: devieira73 on February 12, 2018, 04:57:05 PM
I really liked the LitS performance, specially the Dug’s parts that Jeff sung extremely well!
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bosk1 on February 12, 2018, 04:59:00 PM
I really liked the LitS performance, specially the Dug’s parts that Jeff sung extremely well!
Agreed.  But I can't say the same about Just Let Me Breathe.  I like that song, but I don't feel like it is suited for Jeff's voice or something.  It just didn't translate well, IMO.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: pcs90 on February 12, 2018, 05:07:19 PM
I really liked the LitS performance, specially the Dug’s parts that Jeff sung extremely well!
Agree that Jeff handled that song quite well.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Schurftkut on February 12, 2018, 05:09:11 PM
The Prophets Song live: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_XCIrRm8V68

Brian May retweeted this video :-) I must say this is a pretty cool rendition!

If only Ron and Mike would join in for later parts.... ;)
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: goo-goo on February 12, 2018, 05:13:21 PM
I attended the Orlando show with very low expectations. Let me say that the songs translate WAY better in a live setting. They sounded very heavy. I really miss Derek in Dream Theater so this is closest that I will ever get to see him play DT stuff. Loved his playing. The surprise of the night for me was Bumblefoot. The guy obviously can shred and played the DT stuff very well. However, the guy can sing...and very well!! During the Lines in the Sand chorus, he sang the main part higher than Jeff,while Jeff did the background vocals (Dug's parts). I was pleasantly surprised by that. As far as Jeff goes, he did a great job being the front man and has a good voice. His does get into the hand movement a tad too much but it was an impressive performance. Can't say much about Billy, only that his bass tone did not sound as high as in the Winery Dogs. Not sure if it was the mix or if that's his tone with SoA. MP was MP, waving hands, throwing his sticks up and catching them, spitting, etc. Not much I can add about MP. They did allude the fact that Orlando was the first mainland show in SoA's history.

They played:
God of the Sun
Signs of Time
Figaro's Whore
Divine Addiction
Just Let Me Breathe (FII cover on the projection screen with Sons of Apollo's Derek and MP's lions seating where the guys with binoculars were in the cover)
Labyrinth
Bass solo
Lost in Oblivion
Prophet's Song/Save Me
Alive
Pink Panther Theme (Ron's solo)
Opus Maximus
Keyboard Solo
Lines in the Sand (with FII cover modification on the screen)
And the Cradle will Rock (Van Halen cover)
Coming Home

Merch wise: a variety of tshirts, two beanies, one cap, one hoodie, mediabook 2cd version of album an vinyl.

If anybody could get me a cap, I would appreciate it. I intended to get one after the show but they ran out.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: The Walrus on February 12, 2018, 05:19:53 PM
I thought their show back in August 2017 was their first show? Did that just get scrubbed from the history books or something?

Speaking of history, I double checked that and in the clip I watched, Soto says "Sherinian lives by the hashtag #MakingHistory, and tonight, you're witnessing history"... as they kick into a cover of a very popular highly covered Van Halen song. wot
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: devieira73 on February 12, 2018, 05:25:09 PM
I didn’t see all the videos, but it seems that Billy playing with a double neck bass just created some discomfort in his performance, that it’s more energetic normally.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: gzarruk on February 12, 2018, 05:31:25 PM
Wow I haven't listened to Just Let Me Breathe in forever. Thanks for reminding me why.
yeah such an odd choice. I don't get why MP doesn't want to play fan favorites from DT if he didn't write the lyrics..

BMS would have been a much better song choice. It's a better song (my opinion), has a very cool DS solo and the lyrics were also written by MP. Oh well...
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on February 12, 2018, 05:35:14 PM
Wow I haven't listened to Just Let Me Breathe in forever. Thanks for reminding me why.
yeah such an odd choice. I don't get why MP doesn't want to play fan favorites from DT if he didn't write the lyrics..

BMS would have been a much better song choice. It's a better song (my opinion), has a very cool DS solo and the lyrics were also written by MP. Oh well...

Could it be due to DT having played BMS relatively recently, but JLMB has not been played awhile.  It seemed DT's choice to play ACOS affected MP's TSF to not play it, so maybe there's some connection to what DT is/isn't playing here?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: gzarruk on February 12, 2018, 05:47:15 PM
Wow I haven't listened to Just Let Me Breathe in forever. Thanks for reminding me why.
yeah such an odd choice. I don't get why MP doesn't want to play fan favorites from DT if he didn't write the lyrics..

BMS would have been a much better song choice. It's a better song (my opinion), has a very cool DS solo and the lyrics were also written by MP. Oh well...

Could it be due to DT having played BMS relatively recently, but JLMB has not been played awhile.  It seemed DT's choice to play ACOS affected MP's TSF to not play it, so maybe there's some connection to what DT is/isn't playing here?

But they played it in 2015 :huh:
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on February 12, 2018, 06:01:57 PM
and JLMB hasnt been played since 2006 (according to setlist.fm)  making it a bit more of a fresh option for a DT fan seeing SOA.  I'm only speculating here.  Personally I enjoy the song.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Cool Chris on February 12, 2018, 06:05:24 PM
If JLMB was unworthy of making it in to a DT setlist for the last 5 years Mike was in the band, why does he feel it is so worthy of being in SoA's setlist now?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Madman Shepherd on February 12, 2018, 06:30:28 PM
I DISagree.  Unnecessary does not equate to stupid.  How much that musicians do is really "necessary?"

Exactly.  They don't need to bang their head or jump up and down or even have concert lighting but it's nice.  I don't really care for the double neck fest either but I guess it presents a cool visual. 
Wow I haven't listened to Just Let Me Breathe in forever. Thanks for reminding me why.

I feel the same way. 

What was with adding Chris Cornell's name into the lyrics?  It used to be Shannon Hoon and Kurt Cobain which I always took as a slam.  Get high and kill yourself and you'll become famous.  Mike was just giving a tribute to Chris Cornell calling him a great vocalist and all that and now it almost seems like adding his name is ragging on him.  Maybe I'm reading too much into that or maybe they just wanted to add Chris Cornell's name without any thought because he also killed himself but it seems like kind of a gross thing to do. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: XeRocks81 on February 12, 2018, 07:44:44 PM
I DISagree.  Unnecessary does not equate to stupid.  How much that musicians do is really "necessary?"

Exactly.  They don't need to bang their head or jump up and down or even have concert lighting but it's nice.  I don't really care for the double neck fest either but I guess it presents a cool visual. 
Wow I haven't listened to Just Let Me Breathe in forever. Thanks for reminding me why.

I feel the same way. 

What was with adding Chris Cornell's name into the lyrics?  It used to be Shannon Hoon and Kurt Cobain which I always took as a slam.  Get high and kill yourself and you'll become famous.  Mike was just giving a tribute to Chris Cornell calling him a great vocalist and all that and now it almost seems like adding his name is ragging on him.  Maybe I'm reading too much into that or maybe they just wanted to add Chris Cornell's name without any thought because he also killed himself but it seems like kind of a gross thing to do.

I guess the more charitable interpretation of those lyrics is that they're from the point of view the unfeeling, uncaring music business.  Like it's saying "yeah kill yourselves and sell more records, that's all that matters!"
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Madman Shepherd on February 12, 2018, 08:30:55 PM
I DISagree.  Unnecessary does not equate to stupid.  How much that musicians do is really "necessary?"

Exactly.  They don't need to bang their head or jump up and down or even have concert lighting but it's nice.  I don't really care for the double neck fest either but I guess it presents a cool visual. 
Wow I haven't listened to Just Let Me Breathe in forever. Thanks for reminding me why.

I feel the same way. 

What was with adding Chris Cornell's name into the lyrics?  It used to be Shannon Hoon and Kurt Cobain which I always took as a slam.  Get high and kill yourself and you'll become famous.  Mike was just giving a tribute to Chris Cornell calling him a great vocalist and all that and now it almost seems like adding his name is ragging on him.  Maybe I'm reading too much into that or maybe they just wanted to add Chris Cornell's name without any thought because he also killed himself but it seems like kind of a gross thing to do.

I guess the more charitable interpretation of those lyrics is that they're from the point of view the unfeeling, uncaring music business.  Like it's saying "yeah kill yourselves and sell more records, that's all that matters!"

Yeah, I can see that but of all the musicians and genres he likes, I don't think I've ever heard him say anything good about Kurt Cobain so to put Chris Cornell in the same boat with him is kind of odd. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: rumborak on February 12, 2018, 09:34:57 PM
Of the videos I have seen, I must say I liked the Prophet Song the best. That was really good. Don't care for the actual SOA album itself, so it's hard for me to judge the rest.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Ben_Jamin on February 12, 2018, 11:36:30 PM
As I've said...Sons of Apollo shines on live shows.

The energy is there. It could be way more better. More shows and another album will tell..
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: thunderdog10 on February 13, 2018, 08:34:07 AM
I was at the Orlando show and feel JSS stole the show. He was very impressive. Also as previous poster mentioned, Bumblefoots signing was a big surprise. Not that I didnt know he could sing but his voice was much bigger than I knew.

Also I was amused that Derek would have to put on his reading glasses at times to see the knobs on his keyboards. We are all getting old.  :rollin
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Nick on February 13, 2018, 09:59:06 AM
I was at the Orlando show and feel JSS stole the show. He was very impressive. Also as previous poster mentioned, Bumblefoots signing was a big surprise.

That's pretty amazing that he can play two necks all while providing that invaluable resource to the deaf community. Truly going above and beyond.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Lethean on February 13, 2018, 10:17:50 AM
I saw Bumblefoot's one-man show (after deciding that SOA wouldn't be getting my money) and was really impressed by his singing.  Nice to see him doing most of the backing vocals, as opposed to the alternative... :)
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: AngelBack on February 13, 2018, 10:35:22 AM
I was at the Orlando show and feel JSS stole the show. He was very impressive. Also as previous poster mentioned, Bumblefoots signing was a big surprise.

That's pretty amazing that he can play two necks all while providing that invaluable resource to the deaf community. Truly going above and beyond.

So SOA found their niche market ,  the deaf.   :biggrin:
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: The Walrus on February 13, 2018, 10:38:08 AM
I was at the Orlando show and feel JSS stole the show. He was very impressive. Also as previous poster mentioned, Bumblefoots signing was a big surprise.

That's pretty amazing that he can play two necks all while providing that invaluable resource to the deaf community. Truly going above and beyond.

So SOA found their niche market ,  the deaf.   :biggrin:

Gives a new meaning to the song 'Signs of the Time'  :)
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Madman Shepherd on February 13, 2018, 12:00:42 PM
So that's why Soto does all those movements with his hands.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Setlist Scotty on February 13, 2018, 12:32:50 PM
If JLMB was unworthy of making it in to a DT setlist for the last 5 years Mike was in the band, why does he feel it is so worthy of being in SoA's setlist now?
Maybe because MP didn't think it was unworthy, but that there were a lot of other songs that he wanted to include in the setlist instead?
 
 
What was with adding Chris Cornell's name into the lyrics?  It used to be Shannon Hoon and Kurt Cobain which I always took as a slam.  Get high and kill yourself and you'll become famous.  Mike was just giving a tribute to Chris Cornell calling him a great vocalist and all that and now it almost seems like adding his name is ragging on him.  Maybe I'm reading too much into that or maybe they just wanted to add Chris Cornell's name without any thought because he also killed himself but it seems like kind of a gross thing to do.
I guess the more charitable interpretation of those lyrics is that they're from the point of view the unfeeling, uncaring music business.  Like it's saying "yeah kill yourselves and sell more records, that's all that matters!"
Yeah, I can see that but of all the musicians and genres he likes, I don't think I've ever heard him say anything good about Kurt Cobain so to put Chris Cornell in the same boat with him is kind of odd. 
Fair enough, but what is the purpose of the lyrics to the song? To be overly critical of Kurt Cobain, Shannon Hoon and now Chris Cornell, or to be overly critical of the music business? I think the answer is clear.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: the keyboard wizard on February 13, 2018, 01:01:47 PM
Here's a review of the Orlando gig :
https://blogofapollo.wordpress.com/2018/02/13/review-in-english-making-history-in-orlando-02-11-2018/
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Orbert on February 13, 2018, 01:46:47 PM
I think he liked it.

So not only do they cover DT (which is fine, really) but the cover of Falling Into Infinity is on the screen?  That's... I don't know, it seems wrong.  For the possibly one or two people in the audience that don't realize that they're playing a DT song at the moment, it won't matter, and for the rest of them, they already know it's a DT song and from which album.  So it doesn't matter either way.  But the album cover of the band whose song you're playing, the same band you were ripping on just a few weeks ago?

Yeah, I'm looking for shit to bitch about.  Sue me.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Adami on February 13, 2018, 01:48:17 PM
Here's a review of the Orlando gig :
https://blogofapollo.wordpress.com/2018/02/13/review-in-english-making-history-in-orlando-02-11-2018/

Blog of Apollo?


Why does every review for this band only come from intense fan boys?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: The Walrus on February 13, 2018, 02:06:51 PM
I do not understand why MP keeps coming back to DT things. First he was done with the band, then he did TSF tour and said "That's it! No more! Once in a lifetime, no more DT covers, that's all folks!"... he poo-pooed DT covering A Change of Seasons, their own freaking song, and then 6 months later is covering DT tunes he used to give the cold shoulder to, while showing the freaking album art of another band! Yeah, his old band, but one he himself said he left behind. This is really sad at this point

Also... Blog of Apollo? Making blogs great again. Revolutionizing blogs!
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: XeRocks81 on February 13, 2018, 02:30:11 PM
I think he liked it.

So not only do they cover DT (which is fine, really) but the cover of Falling Into Infinity is on the screen?  That's... I don't know, it seems wrong.  For the possibly one or two people in the audience that don't realize that they're playing a DT song at the moment, it won't matter, and for the rest of them, they already know it's a DT song and from which album.  So it doesn't matter either way.  But the album cover of the band whose song you're playing, the same band you were ripping on just a few weeks ago?

Yeah, I'm looking for shit to bitch about.  Sue me.

When Mike was in DT and they would cover songs live there would usually artwork projected.  That’s kind of his thing.  But the context is different I concede.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Stadler on February 13, 2018, 02:44:30 PM
I do not understand why MP keeps coming back to DT things. First he was done with the band, then he did TSF tour and said "That's it! No more! Once in a lifetime, no more DT covers, that's all folks!"... he poo-pooed DT covering A Change of Seasons, their own freaking song, and then 6 months later is covering DT tunes he used to give the cold shoulder to, while showing the freaking album art of another band! Yeah, his old band, but one he himself said he left behind. This is really sad at this point

Also... Blog of Apollo? Making blogs great again. Revolutionizing blogs!

Respectfully, I believe that Shattered Fortress was his last FULL SET of DT material.  I don't believe he ever said he would never play another DT SONG ever again. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bosk1 on February 13, 2018, 02:50:31 PM
When Mike was in DT and they would cover songs live there would usually artwork projected.  That’s kind of his thing.  But the context is different I concede.

Yeah, he even had Transatlantic launch into a few bars of Metallica's Ride the Lightning after the "ride the lightning" lyric in Kaleidoscope, during which they flashed the Ride the Lightning album cover up on screen.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Stadler on February 13, 2018, 02:58:22 PM
When Mike was in DT and they would cover songs live there would usually artwork projected.  That’s kind of his thing.  But the context is different I concede.

Yeah, he even had Transatlantic launch into a few bars of Metallica's Ride the Lightning after the "ride the lightning" lyric in Kaleidoscope, during which they flashed the Ride the Lightning album cover up on screen.

They did something akin to that with Highway Star on the Whirlwind tour, though I haven't watched the vid yet so I don't know if the album art was up on the screen. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Cool Chris on February 13, 2018, 03:18:32 PM
They also replaced the two dudes with the lions from the SoA artwork correct? 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: goo-goo on February 13, 2018, 03:21:44 PM
They also replaced the two dudes with the lions from the SoA artwork correct?

Yes, that is correct.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: rumborak on February 13, 2018, 03:33:25 PM
Regarding the DT cover songs, this must be really weird for Billy. How many DT songs has he played live now in PSMS, TWD and SOA?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on February 13, 2018, 03:40:01 PM
Regarding the DT cover songs, this must be really weird for Billy. How many DT songs has he played live now in PSMS, TWD and SOA?

Does BIlly even care?  Guy just seems to go with the flow.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: TAC on February 13, 2018, 03:44:37 PM
I keep coming into this thread hoping to be inspired to give a fuck about SOA. I just can't.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Anxiety35 on February 13, 2018, 03:48:43 PM
I have to say the videos fro the Orlando show are night & day difference for me in comparison to the cruise videos.

Orlando is much better. More energy from the band. They look like they will get better as the tour goes on. Looked like a good crowd too.

Still think Ron Thal is amazing and is the highlight of this band.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Ben_Jamin on February 13, 2018, 04:13:26 PM
Ron Thal is the star of this band. Him playing a fretless guitar is one of the main reasons, while also playing a fretted in a different tuning. And also singing background vocals.

I'm interested in where this band will go from here? When they expect to record another album? They could gain some exposure, if they tour more. Just doing a handful of dates seems like a slow start.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: IDontNotDoThings on February 13, 2018, 05:07:27 PM
I keep coming into this thread hoping to be inspired to give a fuck about SOA. I just can't.

:iagree:
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bill1971 on February 13, 2018, 05:14:04 PM
I keep coming into this thread hoping to be inspired to give a fuck about SOA. I just can't.

:iagree:

Me too and I ask myself why I do keep coming back. I think if there wasn't the ex DT connection I wouldn't give the band a second thought. I think if Thal, Sheehan and Soto formed a band with Virgil and some random keyboard player I wouldn't keep coming back. Taking NOTHING away from their skill level.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: pcs90 on February 13, 2018, 05:29:18 PM
I think if Thal, Sheehan and Soto formed a band with Virgil and some random keyboard player I wouldn't keep coming back. Taking NOTHING away from their skill level.
I think the music would be a lot more interesting as a result, though.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: KevShmev on February 13, 2018, 05:31:43 PM
I am never a fan of tweaking someone else's album cover for your own live presentation, like when DT it when they covered full albums.  Seems disrespectful, unless the band itself gave your permission.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Kocak on February 13, 2018, 06:07:15 PM
Long time lurker here.
Took the plunge and made an account.

I've read most of the comments on this thread while I waited for my account to get approved - would like to contribute my own two cents regarding this album and band.

On March 1st, I'll be marking my 10th year in the audio industry, I've worked on a number of albums, live shows and other productions - including a couple with MP himself. I discovered heavier styles of music with Train of Thought when it came out and never looked back.

In my opinion, over the years, Mike Portnoy's focus has shifted from MP as a drummer to MP as a brand, as such, he has stopped practicing regularly, has put more emphasis on the marketing aspect of his work. Post-DT, he has largely been the least instrumentally capable member of the bands that he has been in. His strategy has been to surround himself with rather capable musicians to compensate for his own inability to play.

I have a number of problems with this album with the first one being, I think when you go into a studio and write songs with the mentality of "throw everything on the wall and see what sticks", it devalues the album. An album needs time to mature and refine. It's not an easy thing to write an album, however, we have seen MP tweet regularly about how he and *insert band* have banged out an album in a week. It's not a criterion of success to have written and recorded an album in a week, substance is what matters.

In the studio, it's obvious when a musician has prepared properly for a session - even more so when they have neglected it. There's a dangerous line between perfection and "That'll do." and some musicians tend to get rather comfortable within the boundaries of "That'll do.".

MP closed down his own forum because he was unhappy with all the negativity surrounding the hype for SOA. You can't expect fans to jump on everything you do when you fail to reviatlise over the years and the gourmet meals you serve become slightly better microwave meals. This album does exactly that and serves up more of the same.

There are some interesting moments, but I sense the same old formula over and over again.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: KevShmev on February 13, 2018, 06:10:10 PM
Good first post!

Welcome to the forum. :tup :tup
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ytserush on February 13, 2018, 07:03:15 PM

In my opinion, over the years, Mike Portnoy's focus has shifted from MP as a drummer to MP as a brand, as such, he has stopped practicing regularly, has put more emphasis on the marketing aspect of his work. Post-DT, he has largely been the least instrumentally capable member of the bands that he has been in. His strategy has been to surround himself with rather capable musicians to compensate for his own inability to play.


He's compensating for the shift in the music industry with the marketing. He seems to think he's pretty good at it but he doesn't realize that a loyal part of his fan base isn't on social media.

As far as practicing (or lack of) goes, he's never kept that a secret. What you see is what you get.  I think is still as capable as being musical as ever, he gave up on technique a long time ago if he even bothered with it at all.

As you know albums don't make money anymore so I would think it wouldn't make much economic sense to spend much time on them if you are as busy as he likes to keep himself.

Oddly enough, your opinion of surrounding himself with good musicians is the exact opinion I had when Derek started Planet X post-Dream Theater (Which is my favorite work by him, but appears to be the outlier since he doesn't seem to enjoy doing that kind of thing very much.)
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: TAC on February 13, 2018, 07:04:02 PM
Yeah Kocak, that makes a lot of sense.

That probably explains why there is no life to this album for me. I like how you drew the line between Mike the drummer and Mike the brand. You totally nailed it.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Lethean on February 13, 2018, 07:22:43 PM
Long time lurker here.
Took the plunge and made an account.

I've read most of the comments on this thread while I waited for my account to get approved - would like to contribute my own two cents regarding this album and band.

On March 1st, I'll be marking my 10th year in the audio industry, I've worked on a number of albums, live shows and other productions - including a couple with MP himself. I discovered heavier styles of music with Train of Thought when it came out and never looked back.

In my opinion, over the years, Mike Portnoy's focus has shifted from MP as a drummer to MP as a brand, as such, he has stopped practicing regularly, has put more emphasis on the marketing aspect of his work. Post-DT, he has largely been the least instrumentally capable member of the bands that he has been in. His strategy has been to surround himself with rather capable musicians to compensate for his own inability to play.

I have a number of problems with this album with the first one being, I think when you go into a studio and write songs with the mentality of "throw everything on the wall and see what sticks", it devalues the album. An album needs time to mature and refine. It's not an easy thing to write an album, however, we have seen MP tweet regularly about how he and *insert band* have banged out an album in a week. It's not a criterion of success to have written and recorded an album in a week, substance is what matters.

In the studio, it's obvious when a musician has prepared properly for a session - even more so when they have neglected it. There's a dangerous line between perfection and "That'll do." and some musicians tend to get rather comfortable within the boundaries of "That'll do.".

MP closed down his own forum because he was unhappy with all the negativity surrounding the hype for SOA. You can't expect fans to jump on everything you do when you fail to reviatlise over the years and the gourmet meals you serve become slightly better microwave meals. This album does exactly that and serves up more of the same.

There are some interesting moments, but I sense the same old formula over and over again.
This is an interesting post and definitely gives some food for thought.  I agree with a lot of it, but have a different perspective on some of it as well.   I'm not a drummer or an audio person, and to my "normal person on the street" ears, MP hasn't developed an inability to play.  I get the criticism that he's become predictable, especially from drummers who really pay attention to that sort of thing and who are looking for some innovation.  So to use the meal analogy - I wouldn't say his drumming has gone from a gourmet meal to a microwave meal.  I still like to watch him play.  I still enjoy the drumming that he does, even if it doesn't change much.  The gourmet meal probably hasn't changed much over the years either - so you might get sick of it, but it hasn't gone from a gourmet meal to a microwave one just because of that. 

On the other hand, if you're talking about the music itself, yeah, I'm with you.  For my tastes, DT albums are gourmet meals, Flying Colors is a damn good meal, and Adrenaline Mob was a microwave meal, and so is Sons of Apollo. I also agree with TAC that there's no life in the album, and maybe putting more time and effort into it would have yielded a different result.

As for the MP marketing brand - I don't see why he couldn't do both.  Market himself, stay connected to his fans, etc, but put just a little more time into making quality music. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ChuckSteak on February 13, 2018, 07:23:32 PM
I really liked their "Lines In The Sand" cover. The singer hits all those notes Labrie can't anymore. It sounds better.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Kocak on February 13, 2018, 07:50:09 PM

In my opinion, over the years, Mike Portnoy's focus has shifted from MP as a drummer to MP as a brand, as such, he has stopped practicing regularly, has put more emphasis on the marketing aspect of his work. Post-DT, he has largely been the least instrumentally capable member of the bands that he has been in. His strategy has been to surround himself with rather capable musicians to compensate for his own inability to play.


He's compensating for the shift in the music industry with the marketing. He seems to think he's pretty good at it but he doesn't realize that a loyal part of his fan base isn't on social media.

As far as practicing (or lack of) goes, he's never kept that a secret. What you see is what you get.  I think is still as capable as being musical as ever, he gave up on technique a long time ago if he even bothered with it at all.

As you know albums don't make money anymore so I would think it wouldn't make much economic sense to spend much time on them if you are as busy as he likes to keep himself.

Oddly enough, your opinion of surrounding himself with good musicians is the exact opinion I had when Derek started Planet X post-Dream Theater (Which is my favorite work by him, but appears to be the outlier since he doesn't seem to enjoy doing that kind of thing very much.)

Thank you for your comment.

The whole "spending time on what makes economic sense" thing is a closed loop I'm afraid. Another aspect of this approach is that if you don't give fans something to drool over, fans are going to opt out of your concerts and concerts are the main source of income for musicians these days.

I'm aware that he has made no secret of not practicing anymore, I've read several interviews of him stating it, it's why I alluded to it in my original post. However, I've seen countless drummers perform in a live setting and in the studio, multiple times over and what I can say is that there's a difference between adding new flare to your performance as a musician and still being capable of what you used to do 20 years ago. It's the intersection of creativity and technical capability that separates the great from the "That'll do.".

There's also a difference between making X amount of money from 10X projects and making that same amount of money from one project. I totally understand that it's a matter of choice, but alluding to your comment about the shift in the music industry, with the amount of choice that is available to the listener today, it is possible to have a main focus and maintain your life. Otherwise it just becomes, "Oh look, another project from.." and how many of those have we seen since September 2011? When it launched, The Winery Dogs was a "main focus" for all involved and suddenly, that disappears and we have 2018 as the Year of the Apollo.

But you are indeed right, what you see is what you get. It is also true that when fans don't like it, their money and attention is what MP does not get.

Long time lurker here.
Took the plunge and made an account.

I've read most of the comments on this thread while I waited for my account to get approved - would like to contribute my own two cents regarding this album and band.

On March 1st, I'll be marking my 10th year in the audio industry, I've worked on a number of albums, live shows and other productions - including a couple with MP himself. I discovered heavier styles of music with Train of Thought when it came out and never looked back.

In my opinion, over the years, Mike Portnoy's focus has shifted from MP as a drummer to MP as a brand, as such, he has stopped practicing regularly, has put more emphasis on the marketing aspect of his work. Post-DT, he has largely been the least instrumentally capable member of the bands that he has been in. His strategy has been to surround himself with rather capable musicians to compensate for his own inability to play.

I have a number of problems with this album with the first one being, I think when you go into a studio and write songs with the mentality of "throw everything on the wall and see what sticks", it devalues the album. An album needs time to mature and refine. It's not an easy thing to write an album, however, we have seen MP tweet regularly about how he and *insert band* have banged out an album in a week. It's not a criterion of success to have written and recorded an album in a week, substance is what matters.

In the studio, it's obvious when a musician has prepared properly for a session - even more so when they have neglected it. There's a dangerous line between perfection and "That'll do." and some musicians tend to get rather comfortable within the boundaries of "That'll do.".

MP closed down his own forum because he was unhappy with all the negativity surrounding the hype for SOA. You can't expect fans to jump on everything you do when you fail to reviatlise over the years and the gourmet meals you serve become slightly better microwave meals. This album does exactly that and serves up more of the same.

There are some interesting moments, but I sense the same old formula over and over again.
This is an interesting post and definitely gives some food for thought.  I agree with a lot of it, but have a different perspective on some of it as well.   I'm not a drummer or an audio person, and to my "normal person on the street" ears, MP hasn't developed an inability to play.  I get the criticism that he's become predictable, especially from drummers who really pay attention to that sort of thing and who are looking for some innovation.  So to use the meal analogy - I wouldn't say his drumming has gone from a gourmet meal to a microwave meal.  I still like to watch him play.  I still enjoy the drumming that he does, even if it doesn't change much.  The gourmet meal probably hasn't changed much over the years either - so you might get sick of it, but it hasn't gone from a gourmet meal to a microwave one just because of that. 

On the other hand, if you're talking about the music itself, yeah, I'm with you.  For my tastes, DT albums are gourmet meals, Flying Colors is a damn good meal, and Adrenaline Mob was a microwave meal, and so is Sons of Apollo. I also agree with TAC that there's no life in the album, and maybe putting more time and effort into it would have yielded a different result.

As for the MP marketing brand - I don't see why he couldn't do both.  Market himself, stay connected to his fans, etc, but put just a little more time into making quality music. 

Thank you very much for your comment, indeed.

I accept that I have failed to clarify what I specifically meant by saying "his inability to play". His technical ability has lost it's edge over the years and he has become predictable. Can you imagine the SOA lineup with the likes of Marco Minnemann or Gavin Harrison? Technique is not just a way to show off, it also provides a musicians body with the ability to execute a musical vision. Over the years, I went from paying attention to the individual musical ability to caring more about a musical piece as a whole - so I guess I was alluding to the music itself and how MP fits into what's going on around him. I am not a fan of overplaying, nor have I ever been, so I don't expect MP to defy gravity in any shape or form.

About MP as a brand, I think people who are willing to spend the money on his output are more concerned with his abilities as a musician rather than his image. I for one, could not care less about what he posts on social media or his latest photoshoot with *insert photographer name*.

When I look at myself as an Audio Engineer, I know that there is a lot of competition in the industry and I think that I cannot expect people to pick me over a colleague if I ever become stalled or lose my creative edge. It's about continuous development, not about becoming the McDonalds of music. (To continue the food analogy.)
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: KevShmev on February 13, 2018, 08:20:45 PM
His live playing is still really good, but I read quite a few reviews of the Shattered Fortress shows where his playing was described as "sloppy."  It's almost like he thought, "I played that stuff so many times before that I barely need to practice it."  Some like to chalk it up to, "he never plays his stuff live like he did in the studio," but that to me is an excuse for "he didn't practice enough and had to wing it."  And yeah, he probably can play the vast majority of his stuff from memory, but when everyone else in the band is on top of their game and you are a little sloppy at times, it can be a bit distracting. 

As for his brand, that is a good point. I am not sure anyone else had used that word before, but some of us have alluded to how he thinks everyone part of "Team Mike" should not only buy anything he releases, but praise it.  He was clearly frustrated when a lot of his online fans didn't run out to buy The Similitude of a Dream (which they should have, cause that is awesome), and I have to think that he is frustrated by the lukewarm reception (at best) of Sons of Apollo.  I am sure playing in the tinny tiny venues they are this spring is not what he envisioned.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: gzarruk on February 13, 2018, 09:00:20 PM
Long time lurker here.
Took the plunge and made an account.

I've read most of the comments on this thread while I waited for my account to get approved - would like to contribute my own two cents regarding this album and band.

On March 1st, I'll be marking my 10th year in the audio industry, I've worked on a number of albums, live shows and other productions - including a couple with MP himself. I discovered heavier styles of music with Train of Thought when it came out and never looked back.

In my opinion, over the years, Mike Portnoy's focus has shifted from MP as a drummer to MP as a brand, as such, he has stopped practicing regularly, has put more emphasis on the marketing aspect of his work. Post-DT, he has largely been the least instrumentally capable member of the bands that he has been in. His strategy has been to surround himself with rather capable musicians to compensate for his own inability to play.

I have a number of problems with this album with the first one being, I think when you go into a studio and write songs with the mentality of "throw everything on the wall and see what sticks", it devalues the album. An album needs time to mature and refine. It's not an easy thing to write an album, however, we have seen MP tweet regularly about how he and *insert band* have banged out an album in a week. It's not a criterion of success to have written and recorded an album in a week, substance is what matters.

In the studio, it's obvious when a musician has prepared properly for a session - even more so when they have neglected it. There's a dangerous line between perfection and "That'll do." and some musicians tend to get rather comfortable within the boundaries of "That'll do.".

MP closed down his own forum because he was unhappy with all the negativity surrounding the hype for SOA. You can't expect fans to jump on everything you do when you fail to reviatlise over the years and the gourmet meals you serve become slightly better microwave meals. This album does exactly that and serves up more of the same.

There are some interesting moments, but I sense the same old formula over and over again.

Great post, Kocak. I think you nailed it, specially on the MP the drummer vs MP the brand comparison. Like many others have said here, the big issue is that Mike "I can juggle 86 bands at the time" Portnoy has a mindset of "more projects projects with the MP name on them are always the answer". In my opinion, he has has saturated the already small markets he is in to a point where people just don't care for all the stuff anymore and only real diehard fans buy everything he releases.

This quantity over quality mentality might not be hurting his profit in the short term, but he's definitely hurting his image as a serious musician with the rest of the "customers" who aren't MP fanboys, in the long term.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: gzarruk on February 13, 2018, 09:01:24 PM
I really liked their "Lines In The Sand" cover. The singer hits all those notes Labrie can't anymore. It sounds better.

Ironically, Ron is the one singing the high parts, not Soto.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Kocak on February 13, 2018, 09:31:39 PM

Great post, Kocak. I think you nailed it, specially on the MP the drummer vs MP the brand comparison. Like many others have said here, the big issue is that Mike "I can juggle 86 bands at the time" Portnoy has a mindset of "more projects projects with the MP name on them are always the answer". In my opinion, he has has saturated the already small markets he is in to a point where people just don't care for all the stuff anymore and only real diehard fans buy everything he releases.

This quantity over quality mentality might not be hurting his profit in the short term, but he's definitely hurting his image as a serious musician with the rest of the "customers" who aren't MP fanboys, in the long term.

Thank you for your comment.

Precisely what I meant, no one can juggle 86 things at once and even if 2 of those things happen to be good, they'll get lost within all the generated noise. Sons of Apollo needed more time to mature before being let out to the world.

His live playing is still really good, but I read quite a few reviews of the Shattered Fortress shows where his playing was described as "sloppy."  It's almost like he thought, "I played that stuff so many times before that I barely need to practice it."  Some like to chalk it up to, "he never plays his stuff live like he did in the studio," but that to me is an excuse for "he didn't practice enough and had to wing it."  And yeah, he probably can play the vast majority of his stuff from memory, but when everyone else in the band is on top of their game and you are a little sloppy at times, it can be a bit distracting. 

As for his brand, that is a good point. I am not sure anyone else had used that word before, but some of us have alluded to how he thinks everyone part of "Team Mike" should not only buy anything he releases, but praise it.  He was clearly frustrated when a lot of his online fans didn't run out to buy The Similitude of a Dream (which they should have, cause that is awesome), and I have to think that he is frustrated by the lukewarm reception (at best) of Sons of Apollo.  I am sure playing in the tinny tiny venues they are this spring is not what he envisioned.

Thank you for your post.

As far as the first paragraph is concerned, I think that's where technique comes in, the upkeep of it provides a musician with a framework to play anything because it constitutes the fundamental building block of one's musical vocabulary.

As I mentioned above, if you throw many things at a wall to see what sticks, the good things will get lost amongst all the noise, with the NMB album being one of these things.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bill1971 on February 13, 2018, 10:47:06 PM
Long time lurker here.
Took the plunge and made an account.

I've read most of the comments on this thread while I waited for my account to get approved - would like to contribute my own two cents regarding this album and band.

On March 1st, I'll be marking my 10th year in the audio industry, I've worked on a number of albums, live shows and other productions - including a couple with MP himself. I discovered heavier styles of music with Train of Thought when it came out and never looked back.

In my opinion, over the years, Mike Portnoy's focus has shifted from MP as a drummer to MP as a brand, as such, he has stopped practicing regularly, has put more emphasis on the marketing aspect of his work. Post-DT, he has largely been the least instrumentally capable member of the bands that he has been in. His strategy has been to surround himself with rather capable musicians to compensate for his own inability to play.

I have a number of problems with this album with the first one being, I think when you go into a studio and write songs with the mentality of "throw everything on the wall and see what sticks", it devalues the album. An album needs time to mature and refine. It's not an easy thing to write an album, however, we have seen MP tweet regularly about how he and *insert band* have banged out an album in a week. It's not a criterion of success to have written and recorded an album in a week, substance is what matters.

In the studio, it's obvious when a musician has prepared properly for a session - even more so when they have neglected it. There's a dangerous line between perfection and "That'll do." and some musicians tend to get rather comfortable within the boundaries of "That'll do.".

MP closed down his own forum because he was unhappy with all the negativity surrounding the hype for SOA. You can't expect fans to jump on everything you do when you fail to reviatlise over the years and the gourmet meals you serve become slightly better microwave meals. This album does exactly that and serves up more of the same.

There are some interesting moments, but I sense the same old formula over and over again.

Well said.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: the keyboard wizard on February 14, 2018, 01:57:32 AM
Here's a review of the Orlando gig :
https://blogofapollo.wordpress.com/2018/02/13/review-in-english-making-history-in-orlando-02-11-2018/

Blog of Apollo?


Why does every review for this band only come from intense fan boys?

FYI, Blog of Apollo is a blog that I created to publish articles only dedicated to the band. I used to do it on the blog of Your Majesty (the French chapter of DT World) but as SOA expressed many times their will to be dissociated from Dream Theater, I didn't want Your Majesty to be a true promotional medium for SOA and I created Blog of Apollo. So of course, Blog of Apollo is more like an unofficial fan club of SOA and so the reviews are from fans of SOA who are less likely to bash the band. I think too that in France, we are not really involved with the petty "one way" war that happens between SOA (well Derek mainly) and DT, we are more focused on the music (because most of the French don't read the forums/tweets/posts in English because they can't understand them ;) ). So I think that the big controversy does not affect the French fans and that's why we are more enthusiastic and less polluted by all that drama (of course we are not all blind fanboys and many expressed the same criticism expressed here).
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: MinistroRaven on February 14, 2018, 06:08:54 AM
.@bumblefoot discusses the making of 'Psychotic Symphony,' Sons Of Apollo's hard-rocking debut, with GW. Read the full interview here https://bit.ly/2El22nc
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: OpenYourEyes311 on February 14, 2018, 06:56:06 AM
Here's a review of the Orlando gig :
https://blogofapollo.wordpress.com/2018/02/13/review-in-english-making-history-in-orlando-02-11-2018/

Blog of Apollo?


Why does every review for this band only come from intense fan boys?

FYI, Blog of Apollo is a blog that I created to publish articles only dedicated to the band. I used to do it on the blog of Your Majesty (the French chapter of DT World) but as SOA expressed many times their will to be dissociated from Dream Theater, I didn't want Your Majesty to be a true promotional medium for SOA and I created Blog of Apollo. So of course, Blog of Apollo is more like an unofficial fan club of SOA and so the reviews are from fans of SOA who are less likely to bash the band. I think too that in France, we are not really involved with the petty "one way" war that happens between SOA (well Derek mainly) and DT, we are more focused on the music (because most of the French don't read the forums/tweets/posts in English because they can't understand them ;) ). So I think that the big controversy does not affect the French fans and that's why we are more enthusiastic and less polluted by all that drama (of course we are not all blind fanboys and many expressed the same criticism expressed here).

re: the bold part above...

then why play Dream Theater songs at your concerts?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: mikeyd23 on February 14, 2018, 07:27:57 AM
As you know albums don't make money anymore so I would think it wouldn't make much economic sense to spend much time on them if you are as busy as he likes to keep himself.

Dear lord, please don't tell me you actually feel this way about albums.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: MirrorMask on February 14, 2018, 07:29:28 AM
Albums might not sell, but a great album, even downloaded, makes you wanna go and see the band live!
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: mikeyd23 on February 14, 2018, 07:34:36 AM
I think that's missing the point completely. If the only reason prog-metal band is making an album is a money-related reason, I've got some bad news for them, they might be in the wrong business.

An album is their art. They should put out the most artistically satisfying art that they can. To justify not spending much time on an album because albums don't sell as well anymore is crazy to me. With that logic, why is MP even a drummer anymore? He should probably just not spend time playing the drums anymore because not as many people are buying the records and going to the shows. Maybe he should switch careers and be a mailman or something  :lol
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Nick on February 14, 2018, 07:45:21 AM
You know what, no matter what Portnoy and his project have this insane ability to generate discussion here. This thread was started in September and has more posts than the latest Rush thread started in 2012. I think from 2017 through now there are plenty of albums that the forum as a whole probably enjoyed more than this, yet few, if any, came close to the level of discussion that this album got. Even the Steven Wilson thread, which commands many die hard forum fans and has seen two major album releases, world tours, and various spats of PT discussion has fewer posts than this thread.

I'm not sure if this leaves me in awe or makes me want to punch my computer, but certainly a case of any press is good press, it seems.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: RodrigoAltaf on February 14, 2018, 07:54:23 AM
Regarding the DT cover songs, this must be really weird for Billy. How many DT songs has he played live now in PSMS, TWD and SOA?

Zero DT songs in TWD, and 2,5 songs in PSMS and SOA: the intro of ACOS, LITS and Just Let Me Breathe. That's not much.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: gzarruk on February 14, 2018, 08:13:41 AM
Regarding the DT cover songs, this must be really weird for Billy. How many DT songs has he played live now in PSMS, TWD and SOA?

Zero DT songs in TWD, and 2,5 songs in PSMS and SOA: the intro of ACOS, LITS and Just Let Me Breathe. That's not much.

They did play a couple more DT songs on PNAS2014, though. They played Hell’s Kitchen, LITS, BMS and Anna Lee, iirc.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: rumborak on February 14, 2018, 08:17:07 AM
In comparison, how many Mr Big songs have they played?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ChuckSteak on February 14, 2018, 08:33:21 AM
Two of the members of SOA were formerly in DT, so I don't understand what the hell the problem is if they play a DT song (especially one from the album where Sherinian played). They can play whatever they want. Why make a problem out of it?


You know what, no matter what Portnoy and his project have this insane ability to generate discussion here. This thread was started in September and has more posts than the latest Rush thread started in 2012. I think from 2017 through now there are plenty of albums that the forum as a whole probably enjoyed more than this, yet few, if any, came close to the level of discussion that this album got. Even the Steven Wilson thread, which commands many die hard forum fans and has seen two major album releases, world tours, and various spats of PT discussion has fewer posts than this thread.

I'm not sure if this leaves me in awe or makes me want to punch my computer, but certainly a case of any press is good press, it seems.
This. If people don't enjoy an album and yet keep coming to this topic just to say something negative or complain, I don't understand that. Normally when you don't enjoy something, you leave it and move on with your life. It doesn't seem to be the case here.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bosk1 on February 14, 2018, 08:38:14 AM
Two of the members of SOA were formerly in DT, so I don't understand what the hell the problem is if they play a DT song (especially one from the album where Sherinian played). They can play whatever they want. Why make a problem out of it?

Exactly.  For once, I completely agree with you.

If people don't enjoy an album and yet keep coming to this topic just to say something negative or complain, I don't understand that.

Oh, crap.  Now I see.  Somebody hacked Chuck's account.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Samsara on February 14, 2018, 08:45:51 AM
The two band leaders of SOA are two ex-members of Dream Theater,. Those guys both played and wrote an album and EP together. As everyone here knows, DT has a huge fan base that makes up a large part of the SOA fan base. It only makes sense that they should incorporate a song or two from those releases in the set, at least for now.

They can play whatever they want. I know that if they ever play by me and don't do something from FII, I'll be pretty disappointed. Not only do I love that album, but DT almost ignores it these days, particularly the deep tracks and b-sides (Anna Lee, Just Let Me Breathe, etc.). And while I am not a big fan of JLMB, it'd be nice to hear it again, regardless.

All these folks yapping about what DS said about DT, and how it turned them off from SOA, etc...have you noticed all that nonsense has subsided now? DS probably realized he made a mistake, MP said something to him, and off they go. People fuck up from time to time. It happens. Just go enjoy the music.

SOA's debut album is OK. It didn't blow me away, and I'm not quite sure I like the makeup of the group. But having not heard any live clips yet on YouTube, I will go see them live in a heartbeat if they are anywhere near me. I am sure the live performance will be amazing.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bill1971 on February 14, 2018, 08:46:01 AM
Two of the members of SOA were formerly in DT, so I don't understand what the hell the problem is if they play a DT song (especially one from the album where Sherinian played). They can play whatever they want. Why make a problem out of it?


You know what, no matter what Portnoy and his project have this insane ability to generate discussion here. This thread was started in September and has more posts than the latest Rush thread started in 2012. I think from 2017 through now there are plenty of albums that the forum as a whole probably enjoyed more than this, yet few, if any, came close to the level of discussion that this album got. Even the Steven Wilson thread, which commands many die hard forum fans and has seen two major album releases, world tours, and various spats of PT discussion has fewer posts than this thread.

I'm not sure if this leaves me in awe or makes me want to punch my computer, but certainly a case of any press is good press, it seems.
This. If people don't enjoy an album and yet keep coming to this topic just to say something negative or complain, I don't understand that. Normally when you don't enjoy something, you leave it and move on with your life. It doesn't seem to be the case here.

For one, I think you're right. It's like the 6000 anti The Last Jedi Youtube videos out there.
I think with this band the way DS and MP came out attacking a band we all hold dear. Also DS attacking Rudess. It felt more personal for some reason. So I think people are reacting to that arrogance.

Although I haven't seen it from the band in a while. That being said, I don't look at their twitter or Facebook page and am unaware until someone here posts something.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ChuckSteak on February 14, 2018, 08:46:14 AM

Exactly.  For once, I completely agree with you.


Oh, crap.  Now I see.  Somebody hacked Chuck's account.
Hey! Give me a hug!  ;D




Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bosk1 on February 14, 2018, 08:49:12 AM
:lol
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: nobloodyname on February 14, 2018, 10:28:30 AM
So, in a break from your regular programming of, well, you know... I noticed Sifting is supporting Sons of Apollo. Never heard of them before so I've been checking out their current album, 'Not from Here', on Spotify, and it's not bad at all. Anyone familiar with them?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: RodrigoAltaf on February 14, 2018, 11:27:38 AM
So, in a break from your regular programming of, well, you know... I noticed Sifting is supporting Sons of Apollo. Never heard of them before so I've been checking out their current album, 'Not from Here', on Spotify, and it's not bad at all. Anyone familiar with them?

I'm not familiar with them, but would like to know more.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Adami on February 14, 2018, 11:35:52 AM
So, in a break from your regular programming of, well, you know... I noticed Sifting is supporting Sons of Apollo. Never heard of them before so I've been checking out their current album, 'Not from Here', on Spotify, and it's not bad at all. Anyone familiar with them?

I'm not familiar with them, but would like to know more.

www.google.com
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: The Walrus on February 14, 2018, 11:38:58 AM
So, in a break from your regular programming of, well, you know... I noticed Sifting is supporting Sons of Apollo. Never heard of them before so I've been checking out their current album, 'Not from Here', on Spotify, and it's not bad at all. Anyone familiar with them?

I'm not familiar with them, but would like to know more.

www.google.com

That's not very helpful, Adami.

RodrigoAltaf, check out their site: https://www.siftingofficial.com
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: RodrigoAltaf on February 14, 2018, 11:42:30 AM
Thanks! I liked their Facebook page, but haven't had a chance to check them out
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Schurftkut on February 14, 2018, 12:30:11 PM
all things considered, i think this performance kicks ass: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tHJSUmPZ5FM
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Grappler on February 14, 2018, 01:14:53 PM
For all of the talk about the use of the double neck guitars, you can clearly see in that performance of Labyrinth that Bumblefoot is using both necks within the same song.  He said the same in an interview that I read from the SOA facebook page, where he wrote the songs using both necks.  So his guitar definitely serves a purpose more than just for looks. 

Billy's double neck bass might just be for symmetrical purposes, unless there are videos where he uses both necks during a song.  I haven't paid enough attention to notice.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Adami on February 14, 2018, 01:16:27 PM
For all of the talk about the use of the double neck guitars, you can clearly see in that performance of Labyrinth that Bumblefoot is using both necks within the same song.  He said the same in an interview that I read from the SOA facebook page, where he wrote the songs using both necks.  So his guitar definitely serves a purpose more than just for looks. 

Billy's double neck bass might just be for symmetrical purposes, unless there are videos where he uses both necks during a song.  I haven't paid enough attention to notice.

We're only talking about Billy. Bumblefoot is very obviously making good use of his double neck.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: JayOctavarium on February 14, 2018, 01:17:21 PM
For all of the talk about the use of the double neck guitars, you can clearly see in that performance of Labyrinth that Bumblefoot is using both necks within the same song.  He said the same in an interview that I read from the SOA facebook page, where he wrote the songs using both necks.  So his guitar definitely serves a purpose more than just for looks. 

Billy's double neck bass might just be for symmetrical purposes, unless there are videos where he uses both necks during a song.  I haven't paid enough attention to notice.

We're only talking about Billy. Bumblefoot is very obviously making good use of his double neck.

Very very good use.

I totally have  a fretless boner from watching some of the videos.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: rumborak on February 14, 2018, 02:40:52 PM
I feel Bumblefoot's use of the fretless is a mixed bag. In both videos of Labyrinth I have watched the stuff he is playing in the verse is kinda all over the place. In other places it works great, but I think he's maybe a bit overusing it.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: MinistroRaven on February 14, 2018, 04:27:09 PM
I have seen some videos os SOA live and seen that JSS it’s like pedaling something in front of his monitor, what is it?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bosk1 on February 14, 2018, 04:32:51 PM
I don't think anyone would know for sure other than him.  But in terms of what a vocalist might typically use pedals/switches for, I would guess one of the following:
-different sets of vocal effects for different parts of songs (e.g., one preset that has more reverb, one preset that is more dry, maybe one with some chorus and delay, etc.)
-on/off foot switch for his mic
-"triggered" backup vocal or other effects loops
-different monitor settings, if they don't have a separate sound guy controlling their individual monitors (or if he just likes to be able to switch things himself)

Those are my guesses.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: rumborak on February 14, 2018, 05:00:50 PM
I just assumed he has a screen with the lyrics that he switches through.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: goo-goo on February 14, 2018, 05:07:25 PM
I just assumed he has a screen with the lyrics that he switches through.

He has an Ipad with the lyrics on the screen. Some of the Cruise to the Edge comments said something along the lines that Jeff was struggling with the lyrics and was reading them. At the Orlando, I don't think he ever stared at the Ipad. He does use some effects on some songs.

Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Adami on February 14, 2018, 05:11:02 PM
I don't think anyone would know for sure other than him.  But in terms of what a vocalist might typically use pedals/switches for, I would guess one of the following:
-different sets of vocal effects for different parts of songs (e.g., one preset that has more reverb, one preset that is more dry, maybe one with some chorus and delay, etc.)
-on/off foot switch for his mic
-"triggered" backup vocal or other effects loops
-different monitor settings, if they don't have a separate sound guy controlling their individual monitors (or if he just likes to be able to switch things himself)

Those are my guesses.

The FX such as reverb or delay or on/off are almost always handled by the sound engineer at that level. If he's switching through effects, it's more specific and unique settings, which I don't think he uses at all.

I also don't think they have any triggered vocals or effects loops, and JSS wouldn't be doing them either.

I just assume he's playing a mini-dance dance revolution from time to time.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ytserush on February 14, 2018, 05:21:09 PM

In my opinion, over the years, Mike Portnoy's focus has shifted from MP as a drummer to MP as a brand, as such, he has stopped practicing regularly, has put more emphasis on the marketing aspect of his work. Post-DT, he has largely been the least instrumentally capable member of the bands that he has been in. His strategy has been to surround himself with rather capable musicians to compensate for his own inability to play.


He's compensating for the shift in the music industry with the marketing. He seems to think he's pretty good at it but he doesn't realize that a loyal part of his fan base isn't on social media.

As far as practicing (or lack of) goes, he's never kept that a secret. What you see is what you get.  I think is still as capable as being musical as ever, he gave up on technique a long time ago if he even bothered with it at all.

As you know albums don't make money anymore so I would think it wouldn't make much economic sense to spend much time on them if you are as busy as he likes to keep himself.

Oddly enough, your opinion of surrounding himself with good musicians is the exact opinion I had when Derek started Planet X post-Dream Theater (Which is my favorite work by him, but appears to be the outlier since he doesn't seem to enjoy doing that kind of thing very much.)

Thank you for your comment.

The whole "spending time on what makes economic sense" thing is a closed loop I'm afraid. Another aspect of this approach is that if you don't give fans something to drool over, fans are going to opt out of your concerts and concerts are the main source of income for musicians these days.

I'm aware that he has made no secret of not practicing anymore, I've read several interviews of him stating it, it's why I alluded to it in my original post. However, I've seen countless drummers perform in a live setting and in the studio, multiple times over and what I can say is that there's a difference between adding new flare to your performance as a musician and still being capable of what you used to do 20 years ago. It's the intersection of creativity and technical capability that separates the great from the "That'll do.".

There's also a difference between making X amount of money from 10X projects and making that same amount of money from one project. I totally understand that it's a matter of choice, but alluding to your comment about the shift in the music industry, with the amount of choice that is available to the listener today, it is possible to have a main focus and maintain your life. Otherwise it just becomes, "Oh look, another project from.." and how many of those have we seen since September 2011? When it launched, The Winery Dogs was a "main focus" for all involved and suddenly, that disappears and we have 2018 as the Year of the Apollo.

But you are indeed right, what you see is what you get. It is also true that when fans don't like it, their money and attention is what MP does not get.



Oh, I agree that the closed loop is kind of the law of diminishing returns and as you've pointed out that's what seems to be happening. But I do think he's enjoying it and he's still trying to make it work and unfortunately there may be a point that he'll decide it's not worth it effort. He's needs a paying gig to fund all of the fun projects he wants to do.

I agree about listener choice, but I'd argue that many musicians are in the same boat to varying degrees of success. (Smaller piece of the same pie and all of that.)  The Winery Dogs I think were his best chance at a steady gig and maybe allowed him to fund his vanity projects (Most of which I love by the way.) But yeah, I think we have a similar opinion on this.


Quote
About MP as a brand, I think people who are willing to spend the money on his output are more concerned with his abilities as a musician rather than his image. I for one, could not care less about what he posts on social media or his latest photoshoot with *insert photographer name*.

Only speaking for myself here, but it's always been "about the music" from day one. So all of that extra curricular stuff doesn't interest me. There are people interested in that but maybe they aren't the fans who buy records or see shows. Can't really say.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ytserush on February 14, 2018, 05:32:51 PM
His live playing is still really good, but I read quite a few reviews of the Shattered Fortress shows where his playing was described as "sloppy."  It's almost like he thought, "I played that stuff so many times before that I barely need to practice it."  Some like to chalk it up to, "he never plays his stuff live like he did in the studio," but that to me is an excuse for "he didn't practice enough and had to wing it."  And yeah, he probably can play the vast majority of his stuff from memory, but when everyone else in the band is on top of their game and you are a little sloppy at times, it can be a bit distracting. 



"Sloppy" doesn't bother me all that much. If he brings the passion, honesty, inspiration and feel live I really don't have a problem with the way he plays.

I was at the first-ever A-Mob show (Never owned any of their music or swag) and while the music didn't do a lot for me, there was a united sense of  purpose and a take-no-prisoners raw attitude that I've not seen a lot of at shows for various reasons. I'm glad I went to that show because the commitment was obvious.

There are a ton of other drummers that I go to for jaw-dropping musical complexity so I've learned over the years that everyone doesn't belong in the same box.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ytserush on February 14, 2018, 05:42:39 PM
As you know albums don't make money anymore so I would think it wouldn't make much economic sense to spend much time on them if you are as busy as he likes to keep himself.

Dear lord, please don't tell me you actually feel this way about albums.

My point was that nearly all new albums don't make any money.

How I feel about albums isn't going to the fact that they aren't profitable.

At this point they're a labor of love or should be.

Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ytserush on February 14, 2018, 05:50:08 PM
You know what, no matter what Portnoy and his project have this insane ability to generate discussion here. This thread was started in September and has more posts than the latest Rush thread started in 2012. I think from 2017 through now there are plenty of albums that the forum as a whole probably enjoyed more than this, yet few, if any, came close to the level of discussion that this album got. Even the Steven Wilson thread, which commands many die hard forum fans and has seen two major album releases, world tours, and various spats of PT discussion has fewer posts than this thread.

I'm not sure if this leaves me in awe or makes me want to punch my computer, but certainly a case of any press is good press, it seems.

It's possible I have more posts in the AMob thread than here. I've pretty much stayed out of it until  recently.  Not going to comment about the Rush thread.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: mikeyd23 on February 15, 2018, 07:26:03 AM
As you know albums don't make money anymore so I would think it wouldn't make much economic sense to spend much time on them if you are as busy as he likes to keep himself.

Dear lord, please don't tell me you actually feel this way about albums.

My point was that nearly all new albums don't make any money.

How I feel about albums isn't going to the fact that they aren't profitable.

At this point they're a labor of love or should be.

So your first point was that it doesn't make much sense to spend time on albums and your second point is that albums should be a labor of love? Makes perfect sense  :lol
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: The Walrus on February 15, 2018, 07:32:16 AM
So refresh my memory, has anyone here actually seen Sons of Apollo live yet?

I am going with a friend on Sunday because he really wants to see Portnoy and bought the tickets, so... that's a thing that's happening for me. Not sure if we'll get there early for the opener or just show up late.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on February 15, 2018, 07:44:35 AM
So refresh my memory, has anyone here actually seen Sons of Apollo live yet?

I am going with a friend on Sunday because he really wants to see Portnoy and bought the tickets, so... that's a thing that's happening for me. Not sure if we'll get there early for the opener or just show up late.

Someone in this thread has said so, I would of been going tonight in Asbury Park but am in Denver instead.  As much as I've been critical of the band, I'm kind of bummed I can't make it to the show.  Seems like a fun gig and it was cheap and local to me.  I wonder how the turn out is though
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bosk1 on February 15, 2018, 07:46:20 AM
In my opinion, over the years, Mike Portnoy's focus has shifted from MP as a drummer to MP as a brand, as such, he has stopped practicing regularly, has put more emphasis on the marketing aspect of his work. Post-DT, he has largely been the least instrumentally capable member of the bands that he has been in. His strategy has been to surround himself with rather capable musicians to compensate for his own inability to play.

Some things about this paragraph have bothered me since reading it yesterday, and I had to let it sit for a bit to collect my thoughts. 

I think your comment about Mike focusing more on the "brand" of Mike Portnoy is pretty spot on.  I think that started a lot earlier on than most people realize, and has grown through the years.  Where I disagree with that concept somewhat is on there being shift from "Mike Portnoy the drummer" to "Mike Portnoy the brand."  I don't think the focus on Mike as "the drummer" has diminished much.  And it doesn't HAVE TO be at the expense of an emphasis on "the brand."  Yes, there definitely has been more emphasis on "the brand."  But I don't see much if any shift away from "the drummer" at all.  "Practicing less" doesn't necessarily equate to that.  Plus, I think the "practicing less," which Mike has made no bones about, is often taken out of context, and more is made of that comment than he meant.  As I understand it, the emphasis in his commentary along those lines is that he doesn't, as younger drummers more often do, sit alone in a practice room honing specific techniques.  But the loss of time doing that is also met with an increase in time actually playing as a drummer.  It isn't like he is spending all his practice time sitting on the couch with a bowl of ice cream.

And that brings me to the comment I disagree with most in that paragraph about "surround[ing] himself with rather capable musicians to compensate for his own inability to play."  I don't hear any "inability to play."  Say what you want about Mike the person (and from my interactions with him, I could say plenty).  But Mike the drummer is world class.  We can argue all day about which drummers might be "better."  But I don't really care to.  He is in that elite class in his genre where I think ranking is pretty pointless.  Is he perhaps a bit sloppier and looser live nowadays than, say, in the Awake era?  You can make that argument if you like, and I won't challenge it.  But there is no "inability to play" anywhere that I am hearing, either on albums or live.  And he has always tried to surround himself with great musicians, no matter what band or project he is on.  I'm not sure what musician doesn't.  Why NOT get the best guitar player, keyboardist, vocalist, bassist, etc. that you can find that suits the project you are working on?  That point doesn't really hold any water, and isn't really supported by the facts.  Mike surrounds himself with elite musicians because he is an elite musician.  I don't even really see how that is debatable.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: gmillerdrake on February 15, 2018, 08:01:49 AM
I'm not the worlds biggest fan of MP the 'man'. I think my posting history would reflect that. BUT....I've never lost the love and excitement to listen to MP and to see him play live. When The Neal Morse Band came through last January and they played TSOAD....he didn't miss a beat and was incredible to watch and listen to. His playing hasn't slipped a bit IMO.

You can start to argue about his creativity and lack of developing 'new' sounds but even that'll fall flat because his chest of tricks that he uses in his songs may not be expanding but when he uses them to create music with whichever group he's doing it in.....it sounds great.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bosk1 on February 15, 2018, 08:26:29 AM
I don't think anyone would know for sure other than him.  But in terms of what a vocalist might typically use pedals/switches for, I would guess one of the following:
-different sets of vocal effects for different parts of songs (e.g., one preset that has more reverb, one preset that is more dry, maybe one with some chorus and delay, etc.)
-on/off foot switch for his mic
-"triggered" backup vocal or other effects loops
-different monitor settings, if they don't have a separate sound guy controlling their individual monitors (or if he just likes to be able to switch things himself)

Those are my guesses.

The FX such as reverb or delay or on/off are almost always handled by the sound engineer at that level. If he's switching through effects, it's more specific and unique settings, which I don't think he uses at all.

I also don't think they have any triggered vocals or effects loops, and JSS wouldn't be doing them either.

Not necessarily.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: goo-goo on February 15, 2018, 08:39:29 AM
So refresh my memory, has anyone here actually seen Sons of Apollo live yet?

I am going with a friend on Sunday because he really wants to see Portnoy and bought the tickets, so... that's a thing that's happening for me. Not sure if we'll get there early for the opener or just show up late.

I went to the Orlando show. Skip the opener. I hare to say this to an up and starting band but it was embarrasing to see.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Nick on February 15, 2018, 08:44:12 AM
In general I agree with Bosk. MP was the only one to have an active online presence in DT for many years, was the one spearheading Ytsejam, and was the only one regularly putting out MP branded releases. He was the only one also with a regular assortment of major projects and tours on the side. Not to say Jordan and Petrucci didn't do some of it, but certainly not to the extent of Portnoy.

And Portnoy has never been shy to say that his technique practice is practically non-existent, but at the end of the day he remains one of the most thrilling and captivating drummers to watch in the entire genre. He is certainly not the most original or talented at this point, but there is a very good reason he remains a fan favorite in spite of that.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Anxiety35 on February 15, 2018, 09:08:37 AM
If MP was not a good drummer, he wouldn't be able to get all these musicians to play with him for his projects and he wouldn't be asked to play on albums/tours by Neal Morse and various others. You can know people and be friends with people but at the end of the day if you can't play, someone else gets the gig or people decline to work with you.

I do agree that MP is extremely predictable now. There's been nothing new in his style/fills/approach for quite some time. A positive quality is that he still knows how to play to the music.

Case in point, on God of the Sun that opening fill fits perfect with the song. It's a fill he's done forever, but it goes great.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Adami on February 15, 2018, 09:28:11 AM
I don't think anyone would know for sure other than him.  But in terms of what a vocalist might typically use pedals/switches for, I would guess one of the following:
-different sets of vocal effects for different parts of songs (e.g., one preset that has more reverb, one preset that is more dry, maybe one with some chorus and delay, etc.)
-on/off foot switch for his mic
-"triggered" backup vocal or other effects loops
-different monitor settings, if they don't have a separate sound guy controlling their individual monitors (or if he just likes to be able to switch things himself)

Those are my guesses.

The FX such as reverb or delay or on/off are almost always handled by the sound engineer at that level. If he's switching through effects, it's more specific and unique settings, which I don't think he uses at all.

I also don't think they have any triggered vocals or effects loops, and JSS wouldn't be doing them either.

Not necessarily.

True. But probably.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: DTA on February 15, 2018, 09:33:14 AM
His playing has become insanely boring and predictable. I miss how he used to incorporate the extra percussion on his kit (octobans, stacks, timbalitos, tambourine, cowbell) into actual grooves and drum parts. He eliminated most of it and only uses octobans to start big drum fills across the kit. He wanted DT to take some time off to recharge their batteries, but maybe he should take a year or two off from any projects and try to reinvigorate his own playing ala Neil.

His pump-and-dump album creation method is also getting tiring as everything is starting to blend into one similar sound. SoA sounds like AMob with keys. FC, TA, and TNMB are almost becoming indistinguishable from each other to the point where I'm not sure TA needs to exist anymore. I don't necessarily blame him for that, but since he insists on being producer/leader of every project, I can see him pushing the musicians in a certain way that's making everything homogeneous.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: The Walrus on February 15, 2018, 10:06:09 AM
I will gladly give a fair and as-unbiased-as-I-possibly-can review of the show and Mike's playing Sunday night or sometime Monday... I've never seen MP live so I have nothing to compare to other than the DT concert films.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bill1971 on February 15, 2018, 10:39:37 AM
His playing has become insanely boring and predictable. I miss how he used to incorporate the extra percussion on his kit (octobans, stacks, timbalitos, tambourine, cowbell) into actual grooves and drum parts. He eliminated most of it and only uses octobans to start big drum fills across the kit. He wanted DT to take some time off to recharge their batteries, but maybe he should take a year or two off from any projects and try to reinvigorate his own playing ala Neil.

His pump-and-dump album creation method is also getting tiring as everything is starting to blend into one similar sound. SoA sounds like AMob with keys. FC, TA, and TNMB are almost becoming indistinguishable from each other to the point where I'm not sure TA needs to exist anymore. I don't necessarily blame him for that, but since he insists on being producer/leader of every project, I can see him pushing the musicians in a certain way that's making everything homogeneous.

I agree with much of this, however I think The Neal Morse band is still mainly written by Neal Morse and sounds different. I think his drumming is best with Neal at least with Similitude because I think of two reasons.

1. Neal pushes MP
2. MP looks up to Neal and pushes himself

But then again I am just some random guy on the internet so what the heck do I know?? :)
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: gmillerdrake on February 15, 2018, 10:53:15 AM
His playing has become insanely boring and predictable. I miss how he used to incorporate the extra percussion on his kit (octobans, stacks, timbalitos, tambourine, cowbell) into actual grooves and drum parts. He eliminated most of it and only uses octobans to start big drum fills across the kit. He wanted DT to take some time off to recharge their batteries, but maybe he should take a year or two off from any projects and try to reinvigorate his own playing ala Neil.

His pump-and-dump album creation method is also getting tiring as everything is starting to blend into one similar sound. SoA sounds like AMob with keys. FC, TA, and TNMB are almost becoming indistinguishable from each other to the point where I'm not sure TA needs to exist anymore. I don't necessarily blame him for that, but since he insists on being producer/leader of every project, I can see him pushing the musicians in a certain way that's making everything homogeneous.

I agree with much of this, however I think The Neal Morse band is still mainly written by Neal Morse and sounds different. I think his drumming is best with Neal at least with Similitude because I think of two reasons.

1. Neal pushes MP
2. MP looks up to Neal and pushes himself

But then again I am just some random guy on the internet so what the heck do I know?? :)

I think you're spot on. MP's best drumming post DT is with TNMB and it's due to the players involved, not just Neal but Bill, Randy and Eric as well.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: gzarruk on February 15, 2018, 10:54:06 AM
And Portnoy has never been shy to say that his technique practice is practically non-existent, but at the end of the day he remains one of the most thrilling and captivating drummers to watch in the entire genre. He is certainly not the most original or talented at this point, but there is a very good reason he remains a fan favorite in spite of that.

That's very subjective, though. Someone like Gavin Harrison, in my opinion, fits much better that description. MP is so repetitive nowadays  that I lost all interest on watching him play.

His playing has become insanely boring and predictable. I miss how he used to incorporate the extra percussion on his kit (octobans, stacks, timbalitos, tambourine, cowbell) into actual grooves and drum parts. He eliminated most of it and only uses octobans to start big drum fills across the kit. He wanted DT to take some time off to recharge their batteries, but maybe he should take a year or two off from any projects and try to reinvigorate his own playing ala Neil.

His pump-and-dump album creation method is also getting tiring as everything is starting to blend into one similar sound. SoA sounds like AMob with keys. FC, TA, and TNMB are almost becoming indistinguishable from each other to the point where I'm not sure TA needs to exist anymore. I don't necessarily blame him for that, but since he insists on being producer/leader of every project, I can see him pushing the musicians in a certain way that's making everything homogeneous.

I agree with almost all of this. I do think FC is very different than NMB/TA, though, and really want them to finally release their 3rd album, but al the other things you said are spot on, specially the bolded part.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Stadler on February 15, 2018, 11:03:56 AM
In my opinion, over the years, Mike Portnoy's focus has shifted from MP as a drummer to MP as a brand, as such, he has stopped practicing regularly, has put more emphasis on the marketing aspect of his work. Post-DT, he has largely been the least instrumentally capable member of the bands that he has been in. His strategy has been to surround himself with rather capable musicians to compensate for his own inability to play.

Some things about this paragraph have bothered me since reading it yesterday, and I had to let it sit for a bit to collect my thoughts. 

I think your comment about Mike focusing more on the "brand" of Mike Portnoy is pretty spot on.  I think that started a lot earlier on than most people realize, and has grown through the years.  Where I disagree with that concept somewhat is on there being shift from "Mike Portnoy the drummer" to "Mike Portnoy the brand."  I don't think the focus on Mike as "the drummer" has diminished much.  And it doesn't HAVE TO be at the expense of an emphasis on "the brand."  Yes, there definitely has been more emphasis on "the brand."  But I don't see much if any shift away from "the drummer" at all.  "Practicing less" doesn't necessarily equate to that.  Plus, I think the "practicing less," which Mike has made no bones about, is often taken out of context, and more is made of that comment than he meant.  As I understand it, the emphasis in his commentary along those lines is that he doesn't, as younger drummers more often do, sit alone in a practice room honing specific techniques.  But the loss of time doing that is also met with an increase in time actually playing as a drummer.  It isn't like he is spending all his practice time sitting on the couch with a bowl of ice cream.

This last point is stellar; when I joined my band in Philly, I had to wait a period before I could actually play with the band (long, not relevant story).  So I did a lot of woodshedding.  I learned more in my first two weeks playing in real time with the band t than I did in the roughly three months of woodshedding I did before I could sit in.  For all his faults (not saying there are a lot or any at all) his ability to play cohesively in an ensemble is not one of them.   On stage, that's 3/4 of the battle. 

With respect to the "brand", I said well before he left DT that for me, the problem is the silos and categories in which he places his music.  "This is my metal gig; this is my old-school prog gig; this is my prog-pop gig; this is my neo-prog gig; this is my prog-metal gig..."   When he started DT with John et al, there were no rules.  There really was no "Prog-metal".  They took what they liked and threw it into the pot.   There was no worry about that "being too metal" or "that's for my prog gig".  I think that by definition dilutes the product to a point that it takes the special edge off.  Not saying it's still not good (or even great) but I think it does take some of the transcendent nature from it. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bosk1 on February 15, 2018, 01:18:46 PM
And Portnoy has never been shy to say that his technique practice is practically non-existent, but at the end of the day he remains one of the most thrilling and captivating drummers to watch in the entire genre. He is certainly not the most original or talented at this point, but there is a very good reason he remains a fan favorite in spite of that.

That's very subjective, though. Someone like Gavin Harrison, in my opinion, fits much better that description. MP is so repetitive nowadays  that I lost all interest on watching him play.

But that's the point.  Nick's response to my post, which was a response to the earlier post, was a reaction to the statement that Mike is lacking in skill and tries to hide that behind playing with other musicians.  Whether he is "repetitive" or whether you subjectively find other drummers to be more interesting says nothing about his skill.  Prefer whoever you want to prefer.  That doesn't take away from anyone's skill, whether we are talking about Portnoy, Harrison, or anyone else.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: DT2003 on February 15, 2018, 06:52:46 PM
His playing has become insanely boring and predictable. I miss how he used to incorporate the extra percussion on his kit (octobans, stacks, timbalitos, tambourine, cowbell) into actual grooves and drum parts. He eliminated most of it and only uses octobans to start big drum fills across the kit. He wanted DT to take some time off to recharge their batteries, but maybe he should take a year or two off from any projects and try to reinvigorate his own playing ala Neil.

His pump-and-dump album creation method is also getting tiring as everything is starting to blend into one similar sound. SoA sounds like AMob with keys. FC, TA, and TNMB are almost becoming indistinguishable from each other to the point where I'm not sure TA needs to exist anymore. I don't necessarily blame him for that, but since he insists on being producer/leader of every project, I can see him pushing the musicians in a certain way that's making everything homogeneous.

I agree with much of this, however I think The Neal Morse band is still mainly written by Neal Morse and sounds different. I think his drumming is best with Neal at least with Similitude because I think of two reasons.

1. Neal pushes MP
2. MP looks up to Neal and pushes himself

But then again I am just some random guy on the internet so what the heck do I know?? :)

I very much agree with this. To me Mike is at his best when he is with Neal. He seems happier and more humble. When you hear Mike talk and see how he acts in his other bands compared to the way he conducts himself around Neal, you can see that he really respects Neal.  Mike is more subdued yet has such a joy about him when playing with Neal. Neal definitely brings out the best in Mike.

Regarding his playing, I absolutely agree that he is still a top notch drummer who is one of the most entertaining drummers to watch. I agree he was a bit sloppy at TSF show, which is understandable given the fact that he hadn’t been playing that stuff on a regular basis for several years, but when playing his current music he is still pretty much flawless.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: The Walrus on February 16, 2018, 09:12:04 AM
Fate is a cruel jokester: have to make car repairs this weekend so won't be making the show... wow, I really am destined to never see MP live. Ever.  :lol

Apparently they're announcing more US tour dates for April/May (coming next week) for all interested parties. Have fun!
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ytserush on February 17, 2018, 10:48:20 AM
As you know albums don't make money anymore so I would think it wouldn't make much economic sense to spend much time on them if you are as busy as he likes to keep himself.

Dear lord, please don't tell me you actually feel this way about albums.

My point was that nearly all new albums don't make any money.

How I feel about albums isn't going to the fact that they aren't profitable.

At this point they're a labor of love or should be.

So your first point was that it doesn't make much sense to spend time on albums and your second point is that albums should be a labor of love? Makes perfect sense  :lol

Who said love made any sense?

It's not a black and white issue and it's a tough balancing act.

Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ytserush on February 17, 2018, 11:09:50 AM
Quote from: Stadler link=topic=50945.msg2405754#msg2405754

With respect to the "brand", I said well before he left DT that for me, the problem is the silos and categories in which he places his music.  "This is my metal gig; this is my old-school prog gig; this is my prog-pop gig; this is my neo-prog gig; this is my prog-metal gig..."   When he started DT with John et al, there were no rules.  There really was no "Prog-metal".  They took what they liked and threw it into the pot.   There was no worry about that "being too metal" or "that's for my prog gig".  I think that by definition dilutes the product to a point that it takes the special edge off.  Not saying it's still not good (or even great) but I think it does take some of the transcendent nature from it.

I've been saying that since the beginning.

I sort of get why he does it  -- to cater to fans of different kind of music and because he likes to play it all. But I'd rather he throw everything in there. If it's good it's good.   (Flying Colors, Transatlanic, Neal Morse and maybe Winery Dogs go a but further with fusing different styles it together. Liquid Tension Experiment and PSMS maybe not so much but I don't mind being catered to in either case. I love that stuff.

It's not just him either. Dream Theater more often than not takes that approach to stay within the lines too.

I'm really hoping Sons Of Apollo gets to do a second album (and they release the instrumental track) I think the potential is there but something just doesn't seem right to me. A second album might prove if that is or isn't the case...at least for me.

Maybe that's another reason why I'm such a Rush geek. It was a completely organic process with them. If they liked it, they just did it. There was no timetable. When it was done, it was done.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: KevShmev on February 17, 2018, 11:21:10 AM
Yep, that is very true. I always say, you cannot put songwriting on a time clock, that you punch in and punch out for.  The best songwriting comes from inspiration, and inspiration can happen at any time.  Shoot, Neil Peart always carried a note pad around to write down anything that would come to him. He might hear an expression or even a word that could be an inspiration for a lyric, so he would write it down and expand on it later when he had time to focus.  That was so cool to hear him talk about.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Setlist Scotty on February 19, 2018, 05:42:33 AM
Great interview with Bumblefoot:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uGwMbEhsfqQ&feature=share
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: MirrorMask on February 19, 2018, 05:55:03 AM
Also MP on FB announced a full run of North America to come. For those who were asking why so few dates and nothing else announced yet.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Madman Shepherd on February 19, 2018, 10:50:26 AM
Well, after determining not to buy the album thanks to Derek's stupid comments and eventually caving and then deciding not to support them live only to find out they're playing near me the night before a day off from work, I was questioning if they finally won me over.  This is the only post DT project of Mike's I even like but this I can only say I really "like" three songs so after I heard those, would I even stick around at the show?

Here's what I can tell you.  The show last night started off with a ton of energy.  Maybe those youtube videos didn't accurately represent how good they are live or maybe they stepped it up since last night was the closing night of their first ever tour but God of the Sun was a freakin' awesome way to start the show. They sounded great and Jeff didn't do much of those annoying hand movements.  They then went into Sign of the Times, a decent song that doesn't do much for me, but live I have to say I was getting into it.  They followed it with Figaro's Whore which despite the dumb name is actually a decent intro but it should really only be done live.  Divine Addiction was obviously next and the crowd didn't seem to be too into it which sucks because I think that is SoA's best song by far.  In fact, I think it hold's up with most Deep Purple songs and I am a pretty huge fan so that's saying something.  Jeff started up with the weird hand movements including grabbing his crotch.  What?!  He kept it up through the night.  The dude is a good frontman without all that so please Jeff, stop!  They did a jam and seamlessly went into Just Let Me Breathe, one of DT's worst songs but at this point, I was into the show so even I was a little excited to hear 2/5 of the FII lineup play the song.  Only a minute into it I remember how incredibly boring the song was and the show started to go a bit downhill.  Next was Labyrinth which is the last of the songs off of the album I actually liked and the audience didn't seem to be into it as much. 

So the setlist was the same for every show and they couldn't keep my interest much after this.  Jeff singing Save Me was pretty cool. He proves he has an excellent voice which was odd because he was modifying a lot of the vocal lines throughout the show to sing them a bit lower yet he nailed Save Me.  The rest of the set was just boring.  I never had much of an opinion about Opus Maximus but it was soooo boring live.  Alive was kind of cool in a live setting but the song still doesn't do much for me.  Lines in the Sand was a terrible way to end the show but I also think it's a pretty terrible song. 

The Cradle Will Rock cover was pretty cool and Jeff actually ran back to the bar and made his way up to the stage through the crowd while singing the song.  I think Coming Home was a boring song but the crowd was pretty into it. 

So anyway, the place was pretty full but not sold out.  I had pretty conflicting emotions throughout the show because I can see the potential of the band but I doubt if I will feel the desire to see them again unless they pull out some deep DT cuts and really take the time to craft a good followup.  They announced another local show in May and Mike swore us to secrecy.  It's on a Saturday but I doubt I'll be going. 

I would definitely recommend seeing these guys if it's convenient for you but whether I pay much attention to them after this album/tour remains to be seen and but isn't likely. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: The Walrus on February 19, 2018, 11:12:14 AM
Yikes. That's even worse than what my local buddy who went to the show reported. Not sure if I want to make the trip next time they come through then unless they change the set some more, but I don't see how they could. How was Mike's playing? I was told he was pretty good and fun to watch but that was about it.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Madman Shepherd on February 19, 2018, 11:36:03 AM
Yikes. That's even worse than what my local buddy who went to the show reported. Not sure if I want to make the trip next time they come through then unless they change the set some more, but I don't see how they could. How was Mike's playing? I was told he was pretty good and fun to watch but that was about it.

Not sure if you've been to The Forge but there are huge support beams in inopportune places, two of which are directly on the stage.  I was in front of Billy, off a bit to the side, so I actually had an obstructed view of Portnoy!  :lol  I didn't plan it that way, I swear. 

From what I could see, he actually seemed in good spirits and played well.  Derek was pretty stoic throughout.  I'm not a Billy Sheehan fan but he was a blast to watch that close. 

I didn't mean for my review to come across as that bad.  The first half hour of the show was pretty awesome, they just couldn't maintain the momentum, mainly because of the material, not the band.  I was even singing along with songs like Alive just because it was fun to participate even though I don't really like the song, although I was tempted to sing "I'm Coming Home!" instead of "I Am Alive!"  I would say the good plus the bad made the show average overall. I would give the edge to the good parts outweighing the bad, thus worth seeing once if it's convenient. 

Also, I was close enough to see that Soto does have an ipad in front of him.  I didn't seem him reference it really so I can't even be sure if he uses it for lyrics.  He also uses pedals to control reverb and things like that.  Some people had speculated it wasn't for that but I'm wondering if because the tour was pretty low budget they didn't use the sound guy for that. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: The Walrus on February 19, 2018, 11:39:20 AM
Sounds like someone's using cheesy ass gadgets to me.  :lol Yeah, I've been to the Forge, I really like that place, but I know all too well what you're saying re: the beams.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bill1971 on February 19, 2018, 11:43:56 AM
Well, after determining not to buy the album thanks to Derek's stupid comments and eventually caving and then deciding not to support them live only to find out they're playing near me the night before a day off from work, I was questioning if they finally won me over.  This is the only post DT project of Mike's I even like but this I can only say I really "like" three songs so after I heard those, would I even stick around at the show?

Here's what I can tell you.  The show last night started off with a ton of energy.  Maybe those youtube videos didn't accurately represent how good they are live or maybe they stepped it up since last night was the closing night of their first ever tour but God of the Sun was a freakin' awesome way to start the show. They sounded great and Jeff didn't do much of those annoying hand movements.  They then went into Sign of the Times, a decent song that doesn't do much for me, but live I have to say I was getting into it.  They followed it with Figaro's Whore which despite the dumb name is actually a decent intro but it should really only be done live.  Divine Addiction was obviously next and the crowd didn't seem to be too into it which sucks because I think that is SoA's best song by far.  In fact, I think it hold's up with most Deep Purple songs and I am a pretty huge fan so that's saying something.  Jeff started up with the weird hand movements including grabbing his crotch.  What?!  He kept it up through the night.  The dude is a good frontman without all that so please Jeff, stop!  They did a jam and seamlessly went into Just Let Me Breathe, one of DT's worst songs but at this point, I was into the show so even I was a little excited to hear 2/5 of the FII lineup play the song.  Only a minute into it I remember how incredibly boring the song was and the show started to go a bit downhill.  Next was Labyrinth which is the last of the songs off of the album I actually liked and the audience didn't seem to be into it as much. 

So the setlist was the same for every show and they couldn't keep my interest much after this.  Jeff singing Save Me was pretty cool. He proves he has an excellent voice which was odd because he was modifying a lot of the vocal lines throughout the show to sing them a bit lower yet he nailed Save Me.  The rest of the set was just boring.  I never had much of an opinion about Opus Maximus but it was soooo boring live.  Alive was kind of cool in a live setting but the song still doesn't do much for me.  Lines in the Sand was a terrible way to end the show but I also think it's a pretty terrible song. 

The Cradle Will Rock cover was pretty cool and Jeff actually ran back to the bar and made his way up to the stage through the crowd while singing the song.  I think Coming Home was a boring song but the crowd was pretty into it. 

So anyway, the place was pretty full but not sold out.  I had pretty conflicting emotions throughout the show because I can see the potential of the band but I doubt if I will feel the desire to see them again unless they pull out some deep DT cuts and really take the time to craft a good followup.  They announced another local show in May and Mike swore us to secrecy.  It's on a Saturday but I doubt I'll be going. 

I would definitely recommend seeing these guys if it's convenient for you but whether I pay much attention to them after this album/tour remains to be seen and but isn't likely.

That post will get you banned for life on DS and MP's Facebook and Twitter pages.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Madman Shepherd on February 19, 2018, 11:53:31 AM
 :lol

Too constructive? 

I'll go back and edit to say "OMGz, so awesomez@!!1"

Seriously though, if they wanted to appeal to the majority of the crowd, I would say they should continue writing more along the lines of Coming Home and Alive and not Labyrinth and Divine Addiction because the former is what the crowd seemed to like.  Doesn't bode well for keeping me a fan but it would appeal to more people. 

Crap, sorry, I'll cut it out with the constructive stuff. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: nobloodyname on February 19, 2018, 01:03:41 PM
I thought your review was remarkably positive given your criticism of most things MP in recent years :lol
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: The Walrus on February 19, 2018, 02:03:41 PM
:lol

Too constructive? 

I'll go back and edit to say "OMGz, so awesomez@!!1"

Seriously though, if they wanted to appeal to the majority of the crowd, I would say they should continue writing more along the lines of Coming Home and Alive and not Labyrinth and Divine Addiction because the former is what the crowd seemed to like.  Doesn't bode well for keeping me a fan but it would appeal to more people. 

Crap, sorry, I'll cut it out with the constructive stuff.

That's pretty sad too considering prog metal is supposed to be the meat and potatoes of the whole thing. Or was? They backpedaled on that a lot recently. So is it a prog metal supergroup or not?  ???
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Madman Shepherd on February 19, 2018, 02:08:55 PM
I thought your review was remarkably positive given your criticism of most things MP in recent years :lol

 :lol

Well thanks!  Objectivity is kind of a neat thing. 
:lol

Too constructive? 

I'll go back and edit to say "OMGz, so awesomez@!!1"

Seriously though, if they wanted to appeal to the majority of the crowd, I would say they should continue writing more along the lines of Coming Home and Alive and not Labyrinth and Divine Addiction because the former is what the crowd seemed to like.  Doesn't bode well for keeping me a fan but it would appeal to more people. 

Crap, sorry, I'll cut it out with the constructive stuff.

That's pretty sad too considering prog metal is supposed to be the meat and potatoes of the whole thing. Or was? They backpedaled on that a lot recently. So is it a prog metal supergroup or not?  ???

Yeah.  There was a recent interview where I believe they said something about going into it wanting to be prog metal but it turning into more of a rock band.  So it does seem like they're distancing themselves from it.  Maybe that'll get them more fans but it'll lose a few like me.  I'm sure that'll keep them up at night. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: The Walrus on February 19, 2018, 02:19:29 PM
Waiting for Marc "No Filter Loki" to come back and tell you how wrong you are  :lol
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: axeman90210 on February 19, 2018, 08:34:42 PM
Been meaning to pop in here since I saw the show on Thursday night. Overall I enjoyed myself and I'd definitely see them again (though probably wouldn't travel an hour plus each way to see them on a worknight again).

Bumblefoot was the highlight of the night, rocking out on that sweet double neck guitar and playing some crazy stuff (the end of that solo in Sign of the Times blows my mind every time). I didn't know that he's got a pretty respectable voice to boot, I was surprised to see it was him and not Jeff when I was looked up from my phone at one point in God of the Sun.

JSS brings it live, and his frontman schtick didn't bother me like I guess it does some. The other guys were all fine, if unremarkable. I think it may be a case less that MP is uninterested than that he doesn't need to be as much of a showman as he maybe needs to in some of his other bands where the singer isn't as active as JSS is.

I thought the setlist was good, enjoyed all the covers and everything on the album comes off well live except for Opus Maximus, which is still a bore.

I'd like to see these guys spend some more time together as a band and maybe spend a little more time working on a second album. I do think there's potential here though.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Cool Chris on February 19, 2018, 08:48:10 PM
Just saw some of these videos. Does JSS make the List of Jericho for wearing scarves?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: gzarruk on February 19, 2018, 09:53:43 PM
:lol

Too constructive? 

I'll go back and edit to say "OMGz, so awesomez@!!1"

Seriously though, if they wanted to appeal to the majority of the crowd, I would say they should continue writing more along the lines of Coming Home and Alive and not Labyrinth and Divine Addiction because the former is what the crowd seemed to like.  Doesn't bode well for keeping me a fan but it would appeal to more people. 

Crap, sorry, I'll cut it out with the constructive stuff.

That's pretty sad too considering prog metal is supposed to be the meat and potatoes of the whole thing. Or was? They backpedaled on that a lot recently. So is it a prog metal supergroup or not?  ???

Yeah.  There was a recent interview where I believe they said something about going into it wanting to be prog metal but it turning into more of a rock band.  So it does seem like they're distancing themselves from it.  Maybe that'll get them more fans but it'll lose a few like me.  I'm sure that'll keep them up at night.

“The other SOA guys: Hey, Mike, we think we work best as a rock band, not a prog band.

MP: But I already put out my press release...”
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on February 20, 2018, 07:17:36 AM
Been meaning to pop in here since I saw the show on Thursday night. Overall I enjoyed myself and I'd definitely see them again (though probably wouldn't travel an hour plus each way to see them on a worknight again).

Bumblefoot was the highlight of the night, rocking out on that sweet double neck guitar and playing some crazy stuff (the end of that solo in Sign of the Times blows my mind every time). I didn't know that he's got a pretty respectable voice to boot, I was surprised to see it was him and not Jeff when I was looked up from my phone at one point in God of the Sun.

JSS brings it live, and his frontman schtick didn't bother me like I guess it does some. The other guys were all fine, if unremarkable. I think it may be a case less that MP is uninterested than that he doesn't need to be as much of a showman as he maybe needs to in some of his other bands where the singer isn't as active as JSS is.

I thought the setlist was good, enjoyed all the covers and everything on the album comes off well live except for Opus Maximus, which is still a bore.

I'd like to see these guys spend some more time together as a band and maybe spend a little more time working on a second album. I do think there's potential here though.

Nice, how was the crowd there?  I've only been to that venue once and liked it, but no one showed up for that Amaranthe show.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Ben_Jamin on February 20, 2018, 08:41:25 AM
Well, they're not stopping anywhere in NM so guess I'm not seeing them.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: RodrigoAltaf on February 20, 2018, 10:05:13 AM
Several new dates announced this morning!
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on February 20, 2018, 10:15:36 AM
Several new dates announced this morning!

Where do you see this? 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: The Walrus on February 20, 2018, 10:18:39 AM
Also a video for Coming Home Part 2

https://www.sonicperspectives.com/news/supergroup-sons-apollo-releases-alive-music-video-announces-new-run-tour-dates/
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: RodrigoAltaf on February 20, 2018, 10:26:12 AM
Several new dates announced this morning!

Where do you see this?

Their Facebook page. They'll play in Toronto on April 20, Mike Portnoy's birthday!!!! :metal I'll be there for sure!!
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bosk1 on February 20, 2018, 10:26:44 AM
Sweet!  One of those dates/locations is as ideal as I could reasonably expect. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: rumborak on February 20, 2018, 10:47:52 AM
Worcester, MA? I can make that.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: axeman90210 on February 20, 2018, 11:05:52 AM
Friday night in NYC? I'll be in for that.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on February 20, 2018, 11:06:04 AM
Several new dates announced this morning!

Where do you see this?

Their Facebook page. They'll play in Toronto on April 20, Mike Portnoy's birthday!!!! :metal I'll be there for sure!!

Thanks, I overlooked this because the post started with "SONS OF APOLLO RELEASES VIDEO FOR “ALIVE”;" and I didn't read the next line to click for more info  :lol anyway, a Friday night in NYC at my favorite venue in the city seems like the place for me to be.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bill1971 on February 20, 2018, 12:24:58 PM
April 21st - Grand Rapids, MI - The Intersection
April 22nd - St Louis, MO - Delmar Hall
April 24th - Lawrence, KS - Granada Theater
April 25th - Denver, CO - Summit Music Hall
April 27th - Las Vegas, NV - Brooklyn Bowl
April 28th - Sacramento, CA - Ace Of Spades
April 29th - Portland, OR - Hawthorne Theater
April 30th - Seattle, WA - The Showbox
May 2nd - San Francisco, CA - Regency Ballroom
May 3rd - Los Angeles, CA - The Belasco Theater
May 4th - Anaheim, CA - House Of Blues
May 5th - Tempe, AZ - Marquee Theater
May 6th - Orange County, CA- Bill's Kitchen
May 7th - San Antonio, TX - Alamo City Music Hall
May 8th - Dallas, TX - Canton Hall
May 9th - Houston, TX - Rock Box
May 11th - Nashville, TN - 3rd & Lindsley
May 12th - St Charles, IL - Arcada Theater
May 13th - Minneapolis, MN - Varsity Theater
May 15th - Cleveland, OH - House Of Blues
May 16th - Philadelphia, PA - Theater Of Living Arts
May 17th - Washington DC - Howard Theater
May 18th - New York City, NY - Playstation Theater
May 19th - Worcester, MA - The Palladium


Awesome May 6th!!!! I will be on vacation, good timing. :)
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bosk1 on February 20, 2018, 12:34:42 PM
:lol  Well played.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: King Postwhore on February 20, 2018, 12:40:23 PM
Man, I hate The Palladium in Worcester, MA.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: axeman90210 on February 20, 2018, 12:42:42 PM
Man, I hate The Palladium in Worcester, MA.

Pretty sure I'll never sweat more at a concert than I did at that DT show.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: King Postwhore on February 20, 2018, 12:50:11 PM
Man, I hate The Palladium in Worcester, MA.

Pretty sure I'll never sweat more at a concert than I did at that DT show.

Lisa almost passed out at that show.  I took her out to get water and we bumped into TAC and Mrs. TAC.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Cool Chris on February 20, 2018, 12:50:37 PM
Dang that is a lot of dates, like they are a "real band."
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: OpenYourEyes311 on February 20, 2018, 01:31:04 PM
Man, I hate The Palladium in Worcester, MA.

Pretty sure I'll never sweat more at a concert than I did at that DT show.

My brother literally WRINGED-OUT his shirt after the show. It was disgusting in there.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: rumborak on February 20, 2018, 01:34:39 PM
It wasn't just disgusting, I'm pretty sure it was illegal too. People were struggling.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: axeman90210 on February 20, 2018, 01:36:35 PM
Only to end up being the last headlining DT show with Portnoy
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: TAC on February 20, 2018, 02:16:01 PM
Man, I hate The Palladium in Worcester, MA.

Pretty sure I'll never sweat more at a concert than I did at that DT show.

Lisa almost passed out at that show.  I took her out to get water and we bumped into TAC and Mrs. TAC.

 :metal

Yeah, I've always described it as some type of underground gathering spot for humans underneath the Planet Of The Apes.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Anguyen92 on February 20, 2018, 02:27:25 PM
Hmmm, lots of shows.  They are in sizable venues that I pretty much expected them to play.  Heck, these are venues that a band like Alter Bridge can play in and have played in so fair play to SOA.  Anaheim House of Blues, ehhh?  It's only two days before I go see Myles Kennedy in LA.  I'll put this as a maybe.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on February 20, 2018, 02:31:54 PM
Yea, Playstation Theater is a fine venue in NYC.  They have a curtain to block off the back seats that they may or may not use.  (I've seen it closed for smaller bands (Devin Townsend Project), the medium bands open it up for general admission (Blind Guardian), and the bigger open up the seats for separate sales (Nightwish and Avantasia)).  Capacity of 2100. 

Is there any word on a supporting act? 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Architeuthis on February 20, 2018, 02:47:56 PM
Right on!  April 30th in Seattle at the Showbox. Perfect venue, I'm so there. :metal
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: rumborak on February 20, 2018, 02:51:11 PM
Is there any word on a supporting act?

Next To None.



















I actually have no idea.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: gmillerdrake on February 20, 2018, 02:53:22 PM
4/22 in St. Louis, Delmar Hall is a cool venue. Saw The Neal Morse Band and HAKEN there. I don’t see how I don’t go to this show.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ganpondorodf on February 20, 2018, 02:56:36 PM
Is there any word on a supporting act?

Next To None.



















I actually have no idea.

Scheduling conflicts; Max has a new main gig now
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Madman Shepherd on February 20, 2018, 03:01:54 PM
Another Chicago area gig on a Saturday.  Probably not going to make the jaunt.....


....unleeeesssssssssssssss.....

....they play Change of Seasons, or Raise the Knife, Or You Not Me. 

Derek, Mike, I know you're reading this.  I'd even consider it if we get Burning My Soul or Anna Lee. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: MirrorMask on February 20, 2018, 03:03:28 PM
Actually You Not Me would work well with the more straightforward rock songs, and while there's nothing wrong with the way James sang it - hell, there's nothing wrong with anything done by James ever  :biggrin: - , Jeff could do his own nice take of it.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: The Walrus on February 20, 2018, 03:04:03 PM
Only if Devin Townsend guests on BMS. After that ProgNation at Sea performance, that's the only way I want to hear that song performed  :lol
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ProfessorPeart on February 20, 2018, 03:57:51 PM
The show listing for the Arcada lists someone named Felix Martin as the opener. Never heard of him.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Anguyen92 on February 20, 2018, 04:09:25 PM
^^ First thing I read when I googled his name.

Quote
FELIX MARTIN is a Venezuelan guitarist who is pioneering a style of playing the electric guitar by performing simultaneously with two of them as if they were one, creating a new sound on the instrument.

 

Felix is pushing music into new boundaries by mixing Rock and Metal with different styles such as Jazz, Progressive, World, Latin, Fusion, etc. The uniqueness of his guitars and technique allows him to create distinguished sounds that makes the music sound unique.​

 

Felix uses his self-designed 14 and 16-string guitars, which are two regular guitars in one, in a way never seen or heard before.  This opens up a new and hidden world for the electric guitar and instrumental music. Felix pioneered this style of playing at the age of 13, and as of 2014, he remains the only one in the world who plays this way.

Also, MP seems to know him as well.  From the guy's bio.

Quote
Directly after graduating from Berklee, Felix was signed to the world-renowned label, Prosthetic Records, and began touring all over the USA, Europe, and South America. His band of Berklee Alumni, including multiple drummers and bassist Kilian Duarte, played festivals such as, Progressive Nation (invited by Mike Portnoy), SXSW, Euroblast, Tech-Fest and many more. Felix’s band has also opened for bigger acts including, Steve Vai, and Mike Portnoy’s projects.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: rumborak on February 20, 2018, 04:15:11 PM
This could of course be good, but usually those one-technique players get very samey after a short amount of time. I'm sure you guys remember the acoustic guitar slapping craze a few years back.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: goo-goo on February 20, 2018, 04:19:29 PM
The show listing for the Arcada lists someone named Felix Martin as the opener. Never heard of him.

Ah fuck. I'll just go because of him. The Scenic Album is freaking amazing and has Marco Minnemann on drums. Definitely check this guy out.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: DTA on February 20, 2018, 04:25:27 PM
Is there any word on a supporting act?

Next To None.



















I actually have no idea.

Scheduling conflicts; Max has a new main gig now

Off topic, but it seems that N2N is no longer? Max doesn’t really mention anything about them anymore.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Madman Shepherd on February 20, 2018, 05:09:06 PM
Dude, they're just on a hiatus until Ritchie Kotzen decides he wants to join back up again! 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bill1971 on February 20, 2018, 05:55:53 PM
:lol  Well played.

Thank you. I keep milking the my kitchen joke though. :)
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ganpondorodf on February 20, 2018, 06:43:17 PM
Is there any word on a supporting act?

Next To None.



















I actually have no idea.

Scheduling conflicts; Max has a new main gig now

Off topic, but it seems that N2N is no longer? Max doesn’t really mention anything about them anymore.

He wanted a break but the other guys didn't so Max quit
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: RodrigoAltaf on February 20, 2018, 07:59:46 PM
^^ First thing I read when I googled his name.

Quote
FELIX MARTIN is a Venezuelan guitarist who is pioneering a style of playing the electric guitar by performing simultaneously with two of them as if they were one, creating a new sound on the instrument.

 

Felix is pushing music into new boundaries by mixing Rock and Metal with different styles such as Jazz, Progressive, World, Latin, Fusion, etc. The uniqueness of his guitars and technique allows him to create distinguished sounds that makes the music sound unique.​

 

Felix uses his self-designed 14 and 16-string guitars, which are two regular guitars in one, in a way never seen or heard before.  This opens up a new and hidden world for the electric guitar and instrumental music. Felix pioneered this style of playing at the age of 13, and as of 2014, he remains the only one in the world who plays this way.

Also, MP seems to know him as well.  From the guy's bio.

Quote
Directly after graduating from Berklee, Felix was signed to the world-renowned label, Prosthetic Records, and began touring all over the USA, Europe, and South America. His band of Berklee Alumni, including multiple drummers and bassist Kilian Duarte, played festivals such as, Progressive Nation (invited by Mike Portnoy), SXSW, Euroblast, Tech-Fest and many more. Felix’s band has also opened for bigger acts including, Steve Vai, and Mike Portnoy’s projects.

I saw him open for Tony Macalpine. It's one of those acts where you're in awe of the first song, but then everything else sounds exactly the same...half an hour of this dude seemed to least forever.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: gzarruk on February 20, 2018, 08:08:11 PM
May 6th - Orange County, CA- Bill's Kitchen

Great venue for Derek's burger-flipping solo spot :tup
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: King Postwhore on February 21, 2018, 06:44:04 AM
Is there any word on a supporting act?

Next To None.



















I actually have no idea.

Scheduling conflicts; Max has a new main gig now

Off topic, but it seems that N2N is no longer? Max doesn’t really mention anything about them anymore.

He wanted a break but the other guys didn't so Max quit

Did anyone catch this?! :lol
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: The Walrus on February 21, 2018, 09:14:48 AM
DTF has jokes  :lol
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bill1971 on February 21, 2018, 09:33:39 AM
I don't know too much about Next to None but I can't blame Max for leaving, he is young and if the only reason a band is doing ok is because my dad's name and opening for my dad, the band probably doesn't have much of a future no matter how talented they may be.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Stadler on February 21, 2018, 09:35:39 AM
I don't know too much about Next to None but I can't blame Max for leaving, he is young and if the only reason a band is doing ok is because my dad's name and opening for my dad, the band probably doesn't have much of a future no matter how talented they may be.

I hate saying it, because I feel bad and all, but I saw them open for Shattered Fortress, and honestly, thought they sucked.   It was like John Bonham playing with The Bullet Boys or something.   Max was fun to watch, and as a dad, the personal aspect of it was nice to watch, but the band itself was very very forgettable.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: RodrigoAltaf on February 21, 2018, 11:24:39 AM
Back to Sons of Apollo...you guys wanted a massive tour...you got it!!!! :metal :metal :metal
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Destiny Of Chaos on February 21, 2018, 11:30:33 AM
Back to Sons of Apollo...you guys wanted a massive tour...you got it!!!! :metal :metal :metal

I'm excited. Much better venues. Much more area covered. And more time for the guys to gel.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Samsara on February 21, 2018, 11:55:13 AM
I am pretty pumped for the tour. So glad they are playing by me.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: hauswife on February 23, 2018, 01:43:54 AM
I would like to see the band live. But they are only playing festivals in germany :/ that sucks
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Fritzinger on February 23, 2018, 06:17:25 AM
Is Hellraiser Leipzig a club or a festival? I thought it was a club?
I will try to make the show in Leipzig since I am from Dresden, but currently live in Austria. I sure would love to see this band. I think they kill it live.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: JayOctavarium on February 23, 2018, 09:59:02 AM
So....


I was thinking about this yesterday....

I'd love to see Sons and Haken tour together. But if it ever happened, who would headline?  Haken is the bigger band, but would Mike and Dereks' egos allow that? lol
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: The Walrus on February 23, 2018, 10:03:02 AM
Mike opening for any band that isn't Rush/Metallica/Maiden... lol. Good luck with that.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bosk1 on February 23, 2018, 10:08:45 AM
Mike opening for any band that isn't Rush/Metallica/Maiden... lol. Good luck with that.

I wouldn't necessarily assume that.  If he were still in DT, I agree that that would likely be the general rule.  But that is because DT has earned that status, and not because of Mike's ego.  Mike is a smart businessman.  I think he understands that SoA isn't a name yet (although he surely feels they will be eventually; time will tell whether that happens or not).  I think as long as he felt it was a good pairing that would reach the type of audience they are aiming for, he would have no problem opening.  I'm just speculating a bit, but from everything I know, I'm reasonably confident in that position.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: The Walrus on February 23, 2018, 10:11:55 AM
Mike opening for any band that isn't Rush/Metallica/Maiden... lol. Good luck with that.

I wouldn't necessarily assume that.  If he were still in DT, I agree that that would likely be the general rule.  But that is because DT has earned that status, and not because of Mike's ego.  Mike is a smart businessman.  I think he understands that SoA isn't a name yet (although he surely feels they will be eventually; time will tell whether that happens or not).  I think as long as he felt it was a good pairing that would reach the type of audience they are aiming for, he would have no problem opening.  I'm just speculating a bit, but from everything I know, I'm reasonably confident in that position.

I agree, I was just poking fun. Didn't Adrenaline Mob open up for Creed or something?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bill1971 on February 23, 2018, 10:16:55 AM
Mike opening for any band that isn't Rush/Metallica/Maiden... lol. Good luck with that.

I wouldn't necessarily assume that.  If he were still in DT, I agree that that would likely be the general rule.  But that is because DT has earned that status, and not because of Mike's ego.  Mike is a smart businessman.  I think he understands that SoA isn't a name yet (although he surely feels they will be eventually; time will tell whether that happens or not).  I think as long as he felt it was a good pairing that would reach the type of audience they are aiming for, he would have no problem opening.  I'm just speculating a bit, but from everything I know, I'm reasonably confident in that position.

I agree, DT co headlined with Queensryche in 2003. Therfor every other night DT opened for QR
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bosk1 on February 23, 2018, 10:36:07 AM
Mike opening for any band that isn't Rush/Metallica/Maiden... lol. Good luck with that.

I wouldn't necessarily assume that.  If he were still in DT, I agree that that would likely be the general rule.  But that is because DT has earned that status, and not because of Mike's ego.  Mike is a smart businessman.  I think he understands that SoA isn't a name yet (although he surely feels they will be eventually; time will tell whether that happens or not).  I think as long as he felt it was a good pairing that would reach the type of audience they are aiming for, he would have no problem opening.  I'm just speculating a bit, but from everything I know, I'm reasonably confident in that position.

I agree, DT co headlined with Queensryche in 2003. Therfor every other night DT opened for QR

Close.  DT closed basically every night east of the Mississippi and vice versa.  So, yeah, basically right, but it wasn't literally swapping "every other night."  They basically did the same thing the summer before the QR tour when they co-headlined with Satch and had King's X opening. 

But just to put that in context with Mike's comments about them probably not doing many other "opening" slots if they weren't for a small handful of bands (Maiden, Metallica, Rush), I believe that comment was made a few years AFTER the TOT and, if I'm not mistaken, Octavarium tours (I don't remember for certain whether the latter is true, but I think so), which would have been AFTER that comment and after they would have headlined the Budokan and, if my memory is correct on the timing, Radio City as well.  So I think he said that in the context of them basically having achieved a level of success that would have justified the comments.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on February 23, 2018, 11:25:03 AM
I'd love to see Sons and Haken tour together. But if it ever happened, who would headline?  Haken is the bigger band, but would Mike and Dereks' egos allow that? lol

Are they?  I think it's too early to judge, but playing 500 capactiy venues on SoA first run is what Haken has done on their tours of the US.  Now SoA are playing larger venues.  On the other side, Haken has more music and been around so they may be a more known band name, but not sure they are a bigger band.  Also, SoA Coming Home music video has over 1 million views on youtube, none of the Haken videos have 1M.   That's not a be all/end all measurement, but something.

Otherwise, I'd love to see them tour together and I think Haken would be opening, but hopefully given a solid set length.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bosk1 on February 23, 2018, 11:58:56 AM
Haken bores me to tears.  But judging from the Shattered Fortress tour, they have a very good live sound and energy, so I wouldn't mind at all seeing them on a bill with SoA. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bill1971 on February 23, 2018, 12:17:17 PM
Mike opening for any band that isn't Rush/Metallica/Maiden... lol. Good luck with that.

I wouldn't necessarily assume that.  If he were still in DT, I agree that that would likely be the general rule.  But that is because DT has earned that status, and not because of Mike's ego.  Mike is a smart businessman.  I think he understands that SoA isn't a name yet (although he surely feels they will be eventually; time will tell whether that happens or not).  I think as long as he felt it was a good pairing that would reach the type of audience they are aiming for, he would have no problem opening.  I'm just speculating a bit, but from everything I know, I'm reasonably confident in that position.

I agree, DT co headlined with Queensryche in 2003. Therfor every other night DT opened for QR

Close.  DT closed basically every night east of the Mississippi and vice versa.  So, yeah, basically right, but it wasn't literally swapping "every other night."  They basically did the same thing the summer before the QR tour when they co-headlined with Satch and had King's X opening. 

But just to put that in context with Mike's comments about them probably not doing many other "opening" slots if they weren't for a small handful of bands (Maiden, Metallica, Rush), I believe that comment was made a few years AFTER the TOT and, if I'm not mistaken, Octavarium tours (I don't remember for certain whether the latter is true, but I think so), which would have been AFTER that comment and after they would have headlined the Budokan and, if my memory is correct on the timing, Radio City as well.  So I think he said that in the context of them basically having achieved a level of success that would have justified the comments.

Oh, I did not realize that. I know DT opened when I saw them at Universal Studios. That show got me back into QR. Seeing Fates Warning open for both of them was great as well. :)
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: rumborak on February 23, 2018, 12:55:48 PM
Haken bores me to tears.  But judging from the Shattered Fortress tour, they have a very good live sound and energy, so I wouldn't mind at all seeing them on a bill with SoA.

Exactly the same for me. I really don't connect with them, but I would absolutely enjoy seeing them live I think.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Mebert78 on February 23, 2018, 02:30:07 PM
Just got my ticket for the NYC show!  W00-h00!  I love the PlayStation Theater.  :metal
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on February 23, 2018, 02:43:46 PM
Just got my ticket for the NYC show!  W00-h00!  I love the PlayStation Theater.  :metal

 :metal I plan on being there as well, my favorite venue in NYC. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: gmillerdrake on February 23, 2018, 06:33:38 PM
Haken bores me to tears.  But judging from the Shattered Fortress tour, they have a very good live sound and energy, so I wouldn't mind at all seeing them on a bill with SoA.

Exactly the same for me. I really don't connect with them, but I would absolutely enjoy seeing them live I think.

Saw them for the first time last year. They were incredibly tight and very high energy. Really fun concert.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: KevShmev on February 23, 2018, 07:44:30 PM
Haken's keyboard player is very charismatic and fun to watch on stage.  It made up for the two guitar players being virtual statues. :lol  But yeah, that Haken show was great! :hat
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: RodrigoAltaf on February 23, 2018, 09:24:52 PM
Haken's keyboard player is very charismatic and fun to watch on stage.  It made up for the two guitar players being virtual statues. :lol  But yeah, that Haken show was great! :hat

I couldn´t really tell the guitar players were like that because they played in the tiniest stage in Toronto. But Diego is cool, and Ross Jennings, even though he was out of tune MANY TIMES (I think it´s the risk of singing in falsetto and sustaining notes for a long time), was the coolest frontman. I loved the green glasses he threw to the audience on 1985.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: DT2003 on February 24, 2018, 08:28:06 AM
Mike opening for any band that isn't Rush/Metallica/Maiden... lol. Good luck with that.

I wouldn't necessarily assume that.  If he were still in DT, I agree that that would likely be the general rule.  But that is because DT has earned that status, and not because of Mike's ego.  Mike is a smart businessman.  I think he understands that SoA isn't a name yet (although he surely feels they will be eventually; time will tell whether that happens or not).  I think as long as he felt it was a good pairing that would reach the type of audience they are aiming for, he would have no problem opening.  I'm just speculating a bit, but from everything I know, I'm reasonably confident in that position.
This was my thoughts exactly. I would think that Mike’s top priotity is getting people to see and hear his band and if that means opening for another band, I think he would have no problem with that.  He always said in DT that the only bands they would open for were the Maiden/Metallica/Rush, but DT was/is much bigger than the bands he’s in now.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Madman Shepherd on February 24, 2018, 08:52:05 AM
Haken may have a pretty big name right now but I doubt they're a bigger draw than SoA.  From the youtube vids I saw, Haken were playing smaller venues than SoA was.  The SoA show I was at was packed although it was a relatively small club, it wasn't tiny. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Mladen on February 24, 2018, 09:00:43 AM
I'd be stunned if Sons of Apollo drew a larger crowd than Haken.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: KevShmev on February 24, 2018, 09:14:47 AM
Well, even though they released a mediocre record, Sons of Apollo has more name recognition in the band than Haken, so they had a head start right away, unlike Haken, who has had to build themselves up from the ground.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: DT2003 on February 24, 2018, 09:37:27 AM
My gut feeling is that SoA would be a bigger draw (at least here in the US), but I could be wrong. I think it’s probably close though. If they were to tour together I don’t think it would be unreasonable for them to co-headline. Haken never really clicked with me, but seeing how well those guys nailed DT songs at TSF show was impressive.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Madman Shepherd on February 24, 2018, 12:21:45 PM
I'm not opining whether Haken deserves the headlining spot more more or less, just that SoA at this point is a bigger draw.  Obviously a lot of that is due to name recognition.  A year and a half ago Haken played Reggies in Chicago.  400 capacity and they probably had 300 there.  Last week SoA played The Forge in Joliet, which is a bit of a haul from Chicago, yet they packed the place and capacity was a lot more, maybe by a couple hundred. 

I would imagine if they did a tour they would "co-headline" with SoA closing every night.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: KevShmev on February 24, 2018, 03:35:43 PM
Haken is too good to be co-headlining with a band so inferior to them. :P
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: RodrigoAltaf on February 24, 2018, 04:19:31 PM
Haken is too good to be co-headlining with a band so inferior to them. :P
In
Your
Opinion
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Adami on February 24, 2018, 04:24:47 PM
Haken is too good to be co-headlining with a band so inferior to them. :P
In
Your
Opinion
Obvi
Ous
Ly
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: The Walrus on February 24, 2018, 04:29:31 PM
 :lol
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: IDontNotDoThings on February 24, 2018, 04:34:33 PM
Haken is too good to be co-headlining with a band so inferior to them. :P
In
Your
Opinion
Obvi
Ous
Ly

Are
You seriousl-
-Y imp-

-Lying it's a
Matter of
Articulation & not
Objectivity?

 :hat
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: KevShmev on February 24, 2018, 05:14:55 PM
Haken is too good to be co-headlining with a band so inferior to them. :P
In
Your
Opinion
Obvi
Ous
Ly

 :rollin :rollin :rollin

 :tup :tup
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: gzarruk on February 24, 2018, 06:25:49 PM
Haken shouldn't tour with these guys. Derek, in his many (failed) attempts to look cool by bashing DT, was making fun of Jordan's use of iPad apps, music software, other gadgets, etc.

Guess who uses the same iPad apps and gadgets as Jordan? Diego Tejeida of Haken.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: MirrorMask on February 25, 2018, 02:38:34 AM
Do we really need to point out that when someone makes a post, he's posting his opinion and not someone else's?  :lol
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: IDontNotDoThings on February 25, 2018, 02:56:02 AM
In case it wasn't already clear, my post wasn't serious. Look at the acronym
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: DT2003 on February 26, 2018, 06:03:28 PM
Was listening to Eddie Trunk’s show on yhe way home from work and after he switched back to music after taking some calls and played Coming Home from SoA, then Time Machine from TWD, then As I Am. I like all three songs and I know they’re friends, but just thought it was amusing that he’d play three straight MP songs.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Anguyen92 on February 26, 2018, 06:08:31 PM
^^ I mean it would make some sense if he had MP over as a guest and it would make sense to play stuff that MP was a part of.  If that was not the case, then I guess some good promotion for the upcoming SOA show in NYC?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: DT2003 on February 26, 2018, 06:18:34 PM
^^ I mean it would make some sense if he had MP over as a guest and it would make sense to play stuff that MP was a part of.  If that was not the case, then I guess some good promotion for the upcoming SOA show in NYC?

It’s funny because after he played those songs I started to wonder if MP was a guest, but he wasn’t.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ganpondorodf on February 26, 2018, 08:20:33 PM
Eddie Trunk is cringe incarnate. He's like that awkward kid that hung out with the cool crowd to try and get some credibility by osmosis. Can't stand the guy
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: portnoy311 on February 26, 2018, 11:17:37 PM
Eddie Trunk is cringe incarnate. He's like that awkward kid that hung out with the cool crowd to try and get some credibility by osmosis. Can't stand the guy

Agreed. He's also a know it all who hasn't ever actually accomplished anything himself.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Stadler on February 27, 2018, 07:21:37 AM
Eddie Trunk is cringe incarnate. He's like that awkward kid that hung out with the cool crowd to try and get some credibility by osmosis. Can't stand the guy

Agreed. He's also a know it all who hasn't ever actually accomplished anything himself.

Being in the tri-state area, I listen to him a lot, but I'm with you.  And my GOD can that man self-promote.   Everything is "I, I, I". 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: MirrorMask on February 27, 2018, 08:15:51 AM
And my GOD can that man self-promote.   Everything is "I, I, I".

I am standing alone, but I can rock you?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Samsara on February 27, 2018, 09:56:13 AM
Eddie Trunk is cringe incarnate. He's like that awkward kid that hung out with the cool crowd to try and get some credibility by osmosis. Can't stand the guy

Agreed. He's also a know it all who hasn't ever actually accomplished anything himself.

Being in the tri-state area, I listen to him a lot, but I'm with you.  And my GOD can that man self-promote.   Everything is "I, I, I".

Ugh. Yeah. He's the biggest "I" guy out there. He's just as bad when he's hosting concerts. THey flew his ass out West for a show that featured Corey Taylor (acoustic), Living Colour, and Anthrax a couple years back, along with Eddie's TMS comedians, and it was just horrible. Eddie got booed. Dude needs to go away.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: The Walrus on February 27, 2018, 10:15:31 AM
I wouldn't think anybody actually liked Cheap Trick if Eddie Trunk didn't constantly obsess over them.  :lol
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on February 27, 2018, 10:31:59 AM
I'll give him credit for accomplishing being the biggest metal radio jockey that I know of.  However, like most radio personalities, I really don't enjoy him and I agree his "I" obsession is really annoying for people who want to hear about music, not him.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Stadler on February 27, 2018, 12:37:18 PM
I wouldn't think anybody actually liked Cheap Trick if Eddie Trunk didn't constantly obsess over them.  :lol

Whoa whoa whoa, young fella!   Been a Trickster since Budokan came out the first time, and still am.  Even like a good portion of the "lost years" ("Standing On The Edge" is one of my favorite albums by them, but it gets largely dismissed by the casual fan). 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: DT2003 on February 27, 2018, 06:25:06 PM
I’m not a big fan of him either, and he’s the biggest name dropper in the world, but I do listen as his show is the only real hard rock/metal show.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: RodrigoAltaf on March 03, 2018, 08:53:54 AM
Guys, I'll be interviewing Jeff Scott Soto on Monday night. Does anyone have a question for him?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Madman Shepherd on March 03, 2018, 10:00:01 AM
Guys, I'll be interviewing Jeff Scott Soto on Monday night. Does anyone have a question for him?

Ask him specifics about the disagreements for vocals that he and Derek had. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: RodrigoAltaf on March 03, 2018, 10:26:54 AM
Will do! I'll also ask about the backing vocals on Alive and Coming Home.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Schurftkut on March 03, 2018, 12:44:44 PM
can you ask him if the next album will feature more of the vocals he's shown to do awesomely with Save Me (Queen)
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: RodrigoAltaf on March 03, 2018, 02:19:51 PM
can you ask him if the next album will feature more of the vocals he's shown to do awesomely with Save Me (Queen)

I'll certainly refer to the covers!
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ytserush on March 04, 2018, 10:19:16 AM
Was listening to Eddie Trunk’s show on yhe way home from work and after he switched back to music after taking some calls and played Coming Home from SoA, then Time Machine from TWD, then As I Am. I like all three songs and I know they’re friends, but just thought it was amusing that he’d play three straight MP songs.

I'd have to think that the average listener wouldn't know that, but yeah context is always important.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: MirrorMask on March 04, 2018, 10:52:51 AM
Average listener: "Damn these drummers today all sound the same"
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: DT2003 on March 04, 2018, 11:16:52 AM
Was listening to Eddie Trunk’s show on yhe way home from work and after he switched back to music after taking some calls and played Coming Home from SoA, then Time Machine from TWD, then As I Am. I like all three songs and I know they’re friends, but just thought it was amusing that he’d play three straight MP songs.

I'd have to think that the average listener wouldn't know that, but yeah context is always important.
He did mention after As I Am that the common thing with those three songs was that MP was the drummer for all three bands.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Madman Shepherd on March 04, 2018, 11:54:56 AM
can you ask him if the next album will feature more of the vocals he's shown to do awesomely with Save Me (Queen)

That's kind of what I was referring to.  Also, at the show I saw, there was a few times he unleashed some falsettos while he was improvising.  He seemed less restrained.  I was wondering if maybe he wanted to do that and Derek wasn't letting him. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Cool Chris on March 04, 2018, 05:17:20 PM
The mere notion that Derek wouldn't let Jeff do his vocals how he wanted is hilarious.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ganpondorodf on March 04, 2018, 05:45:34 PM
Nobody knows more about how a voice should be heard quite like Derek
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: gmillerdrake on March 04, 2018, 07:46:57 PM
Picked up two tickets to the St. Louis show, it’s all ages so I’m going to take my 11 year old son to see them. He started drum lessons about 5 months ago and he loves Portnoy and Mike Mangini. The concert is a week before his 12th birthday so it’s his present.

It’s a really cool venue and I’m hoping that if we hang out long enough after the show maybe we can get lucky and he can meet MP....maybe get a pic with him. I didn’t see that they were selling meet and greets
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: goo-goo on March 04, 2018, 08:18:48 PM
gmillerdrake:

They are selling ViP tickets for a meet and greet: www.sonsofapollovip.com

Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: gmillerdrake on March 04, 2018, 10:19:26 PM
gmillerdrake:

They are selling ViP tickets for a meet and greet: www.sonsofapollovip.com

Oh cool, thank you Sir  :tup
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: gmillerdrake on March 05, 2018, 06:27:17 AM
Looks like VIP is $100 per ticket. Whew.....that’d be a $200 meet and greet. All the Aunts, Unlces and Grandparents are already splitting the cost for a new drum kit for him, its $500....so, maybe I can talk the wife into us splurging on the VIP tix?

I think he’d flip his  :censored if he got the chance to meet MP
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: goo-goo on March 05, 2018, 10:28:37 AM
Looks like VIP is $100 per ticket. Whew.....that’d be a $200 meet and greet. All the Aunts, Unlces and Grandparents are already splitting the cost for a new drum kit for him, its $500....so, maybe I can talk the wife into us splurging on the VIP tix?

I think he’d flip his  :censored if he got the chance to meet MP

For the meet and greet that I did in Orlando, there were 31 people. So it was a very fast one. Hopefully St. Louis has less people at the Meet and Greet and you and your kid can actually chat with the band.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Schurftkut on March 05, 2018, 04:43:19 PM
i think i mostly meant that i'm curious as to him getting more vocals freedom.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: RodrigoAltaf on March 05, 2018, 07:40:50 PM
Just got off the phone with Jeff. Got answers for the backing vocal thing on Coming Home and Alive, and about the difference in ideas they had about the lyrics. Will post the link here once it's published. Jeff is such a nice guy!!!
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Madman Shepherd on March 05, 2018, 07:54:15 PM
Nice!  Looking forward to reading it.  Despite my opinions of his weird hand gestures in concert, I think he has the potential to be a great frontman and beyond that, out of all the guys he seems like he'd be the coolest to hang out with. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: RodrigoAltaf on March 05, 2018, 10:23:48 PM
I also asked him about the Dream Theater songs they're playing. Love or hate SOA, I think that Dream Theater fans will enjoy the interview.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Mebert78 on March 06, 2018, 10:40:38 AM
There's a progressive metal band/project called Melted Space that just released their first single today featuring vocals by Jeff Scott Soto.

Link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nzQ_1PmFi44&feature=youtu.be
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Samsara on March 06, 2018, 10:43:43 AM
I also asked him about the Dream Theater songs they're playing. Love or hate SOA, I think that Dream Theater fans will enjoy the interview.

Can't wait to read it. Thank you. Jeff is a dynamite guy.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: RodrigoAltaf on March 07, 2018, 04:54:54 PM
Here´s my interview with Jeff Scott Soto: https://www.sonicperspectives.com/interviews/interview-with-jeff-scott-soto/

Guys, I´m not a professional journalist and English is not my first language, so feedback is welcome about the way the interview was conducted. I hope you like it!!!
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bosk1 on March 07, 2018, 05:05:53 PM
No need to apologize, Rodrigo.  I'm sure it is good work because your love of the music shines through, even if the English isn't perfect.  But if you are interested, I would be happy to edit it for you if you want to send it to me just to clean up.

EDIT:  Never mind.  I didn't realize it is all audio.  :lol
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bill1971 on March 07, 2018, 05:31:25 PM
Here´s my interview with Jeff Scott Soto: https://www.sonicperspectives.com/interviews/interview-with-jeff-scott-soto/

Guys, I´m not a professional journalist and English is not my first language, so feedback is welcome about the way the interview was conducted. I hope you like it!!!

Well done. :) Interesting interview. Four nights in a row for singing. That is rough.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bosk1 on March 07, 2018, 05:40:02 PM
Yeah, really nice job, Rodrigo. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: RodrigoAltaf on March 07, 2018, 05:50:03 PM
Thanks guys...MP retweeted the interview, and that made my day!!
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: devieira73 on March 08, 2018, 04:46:37 AM
This interview was really good, Rodrigo!
Interesting to know that Jeff isn’t much a fan of prog metal. This makes me wonder if this is the reason his vocals, although good, aren’t the strongest part in the album. Maybe the style of the band will shift in the future to a more straight hard rock?
Also very funny that the band didn’t see the similarities in the backing vocals of coming home and alive until the people on internet pointed out!
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: kaos2900 on March 08, 2018, 06:31:33 AM
This may be a silly question but if you want to form the prog metal band to end all prog metal bands, why hire a singer who isn't a big fan of prog metal?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bosk1 on March 08, 2018, 08:27:22 AM
This may be a silly question but if you want to form the prog metal band to end all prog metal bands, why hire a singer who isn't a big fan of prog metal?

Yeah, really good point.  :justjen  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_LaBrie#Winter_Rose
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: The Walrus on March 08, 2018, 08:36:58 AM
This may be a silly question but if you want to form the prog metal band to end all prog metal bands, why hire a singer who isn't a big fan of prog metal?

Yeah, really good point.  :justjen  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_LaBrie#Winter_Rose

I don't get it?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: gzarruk on March 08, 2018, 08:51:34 AM
This may be a silly question but if you want to form the prog metal band to end all prog metal bands, why hire a singer who isn't a big fan of prog metal?

Yeah, really good point.  :justjen  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_LaBrie#Winter_Rose

Well, what you posted shows that James was on a glam band before DT, not that James wasn't a fan of prog or anything like that. What kaos2900 is saying is that SOA was first announced as the new kings of prog metal and blah blah, but, it doesn't really make sense to include a singer who isn't even a fan of the genere you're trying to be the king of.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: RodrigoAltaf on March 08, 2018, 09:22:04 AM
I may be biased, but to say that he wasn't a fan or didn't have the knowledge of Dream Theater's output doesn't mean that he can't contribute and/or write music in that vein. I think that he was invited to join SOA for a reason, and I appreciate the fact that his background is not exactly prog related.

And hey, album 2 next year!!!!
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Samsara on March 08, 2018, 09:39:42 AM
A singer is a singer. Just because you begin singing a certain style, doesn't mean you're only going to sing that style for the entirety of your career. JSS cut his teeth singing for Yngwie's style of neoclassical metal, then did melodic hard rock and AOR, and now he's back fronting a prog metal band. A singer sings. If he or she is adaptable, they can do anything.

Hell, Lacuna Coil singer Cristina Scabbia was a pop singer before signing on to do metal.

I don't particularly like the choice of JSS (no disrespect to him at all), as I personally wanted an old school tenor metal singer who can hit piercing highs, and really go for broke, but that's not what the band wanted. The album is solid, JSS is a great live singer, and that's that. Who cares what he did beforehand?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bosk1 on March 08, 2018, 09:43:15 AM
Well, I can't speak for anyone else.  But I know for me, I didn't buy the album and avoided any possible songs on the Internet because Soto didn't have a prog enough background.  But that's just me.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bill1971 on March 08, 2018, 03:46:39 PM
A singer is a singer. Just because you begin singing a certain style, doesn't mean you're only going to sing that style for the entirety of your career. JSS cut his teeth singing for Yngwie's style of neoclassical metal, then did melodic hard rock and AOR, and now he's back fronting a prog metal band. A singer sings. If he or she is adaptable, they can do anything.

Hell, Lacuna Coil singer Cristina Scabbia was a pop singer before signing on to do metal.

I don't particularly like the choice of JSS (no disrespect to him at all), as I personally wanted an old school tenor metal singer who can hit piercing highs, and really go for broke, but that's not what the band wanted. The album is solid, JSS is a great live singer, and that's that. Who cares what he did beforehand?

Agreed. Didn't  Nuno Bettancourt tour with Beyonce? Sometimes its good to mix it up.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: goo-goo on March 08, 2018, 03:57:35 PM
A singer is a singer. Just because you begin singing a certain style, doesn't mean you're only going to sing that style for the entirety of your career. JSS cut his teeth singing for Yngwie's style of neoclassical metal, then did melodic hard rock and AOR, and now he's back fronting a prog metal band. A singer sings. If he or she is adaptable, they can do anything.

Hell, Lacuna Coil singer Cristina Scabbia was a pop singer before signing on to do metal.

I don't particularly like the choice of JSS (no disrespect to him at all), as I personally wanted an old school tenor metal singer who can hit piercing highs, and really go for broke, but that's not what the band wanted. The album is solid, JSS is a great live singer, and that's that. Who cares what he did beforehand?

Agreed. Didn't  Nuno Bettancourt tour with Beyonce? Sometimes its good to mix it up.

Nuno was (or is) musical director for Rihanna and toured with her for a few years.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on March 09, 2018, 08:15:35 AM
A singer is a singer

Agreed.  Doesn't matter if he likes the genre or not, as long as he is into what he is doing with SOA then his musical past and personal tastes don't really matter. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Orbert on March 09, 2018, 11:15:55 AM
In theory, yes, a good singer can get into any given song and/or give a good performance of anything he can sing.

But if you're putting together the next supergroup of some genre, it still doesn't make a lot of sense to hire someone who doesn't like that genre and has said so.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: tofee35 on March 09, 2018, 11:35:50 AM
It's worth noting that Gavin Harrison, albeit a drummer, was not a fan of prog and he's phenomenal in Porcupine Tree. That may be an apples/oranges comparison, but I think it's at least 50% relevant.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Samsara on March 09, 2018, 11:45:00 AM
In theory, yes, a good singer can get into any given song and/or give a good performance of anything he can sing.

But if you're putting together the next supergroup of some genre, it still doesn't make a lot of sense to hire someone who doesn't like that genre and has said so.

But is that what MP and DS specifically said the intent was? To put together a supergroup of prog metal players? If they did, then i stand corrected. I haven't followed what they have said all that closely. But I thought the idea was for DS and MP to put together a prog metal band, and get good players (regardless of genre) to fill out the band. And isn't that what they did?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Mosh on March 09, 2018, 11:51:23 AM
I don’t think so. My understanding was that they wanted to form a prog metal band in a similar vein as DT, not necessarily a supergroup of prog musicians. The lineup certainly isn’t a who’s who of prog. Even beyond Soto, I don’t really see the other musicians as guys with prog backgrounds (not counting MP ofc).
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Stadler on March 09, 2018, 11:55:48 AM
Here's something to think about:  I think that Jeff not being into prog metal is about the MOST prog metal thing about Sons of Apollo.   I've long said here that as much as I love Mike Portnoy and his music (well, his music) I think he suffers when he tries to do too much, and compartmentalize.   I don't think it's productive from a creative standpoint to have a "prog" project, a "thrash" project, a "pop" project, a "hard rock" project...  I think the best music comes from the intersection of ideas.   Dream Theater didn't start out as "prog metal", they started out as a bunch of guys that liked Metallica, Rush, Maiden, Journey and Queen, and their music reflected that.

I think Jeff bringing in the stuff he likes - non-prog metal - is good for the project, certainly better than him spewing out prog metal clichés and tropes. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Orbert on March 09, 2018, 12:09:54 PM
In theory, yes, a good singer can get into any given song and/or give a good performance of anything he can sing.

But if you're putting together the next supergroup of some genre, it still doesn't make a lot of sense to hire someone who doesn't like that genre and has said so.

But is that what MP and DS specifically said the intent was? To put together a supergroup of prog metal players? If they did, then i stand corrected. I haven't followed what they have said all that closely. But I thought the idea was for DS and MP to put together a prog metal band, and get good players (regardless of genre) to fill out the band. And isn't that what they did?

Okay, poor choice of words on my part.  Prog metal "supergroup" would imply that each member was highly respected in the prog metal genre.

I don't remember the exact wording he used (and don't really care enough to scroll back through 100 pages), but I'm pretty sure MP said that SoA was going to be the next prog metal gods or superstars or something.  I'm pretty sure "prog metal" was in there, but now it's not.  And I believe it's at least partly because they started working together, and Soto mentioned that he doesn't really like prog metal, so they backed off on that.  Now they're just a rock and roll band.  Nothing wrong with that, but the focus did seem to change.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on March 09, 2018, 12:23:58 PM
Here's something to think about:  I think that Jeff not being into prog metal is about the MOST prog metal thing about Sons of Apollo.   I've long said here that as much as I love Mike Portnoy and his music (well, his music) I think he suffers when he tries to do too much, and compartmentalize.   I don't think it's productive from a creative standpoint to have a "prog" project, a "thrash" project, a "pop" project, a "hard rock" project...  I think the best music comes from the intersection of ideas.   Dream Theater didn't start out as "prog metal", they started out as a bunch of guys that liked Metallica, Rush, Maiden, Journey and Queen, and their music reflected that.

I think Jeff bringing in the stuff he likes - non-prog metal - is good for the project, certainly better than him spewing out prog metal clichés and tropes.

I kind of agree with this.  Being somewhat on the outside of the prog scene, he would bring different influences to the table that could add to the music.  Sadly, I don't think that was the case with this album though as my understanding is that he was pretty much told what to do here. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Samsara on March 09, 2018, 01:10:30 PM
Here's something to think about:  I think that Jeff not being into prog metal is about the MOST prog metal thing about Sons of Apollo.   I've long said here that as much as I love Mike Portnoy and his music (well, his music) I think he suffers when he tries to do too much, and compartmentalize.   I don't think it's productive from a creative standpoint to have a "prog" project, a "thrash" project, a "pop" project, a "hard rock" project...  I think the best music comes from the intersection of ideas.   Dream Theater didn't start out as "prog metal", they started out as a bunch of guys that liked Metallica, Rush, Maiden, Journey and Queen, and their music reflected that.

I think Jeff bringing in the stuff he likes - non-prog metal - is good for the project, certainly better than him spewing out prog metal clichés and tropes.

I kind of agree with this.  Being somewhat on the outside of the prog scene, he would bring different influences to the table that could add to the music.  Sadly, I don't think that was the case with this album though as my understanding is that he was pretty much told what to do here.

And that's likely not going to change. DS and MP have made it clear they call the shots, and Derek is the primary songwriter (music). They brought on three other guys to contribute, but those three won't ever steer the ship, creatively.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: IDontNotDoThings on March 09, 2018, 06:41:38 PM
Didn't JLB hear the Status Seeker demo & loved it though? Obviously he'd have to like the style a least a little to have considered joining the band though.

Not that it matters at all whether JSS is a fan of prog metal, but I figured I'd at least point it out.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Madman Shepherd on March 09, 2018, 11:35:06 PM
Didn't JLB hear the Status Seeker demo & loved it though? Obviously he'd have to like the style a least a little to have considered joining the band though.

Not that it matters at all whether JSS is a fan of prog metal, but I figured I'd at least point it out.

Also, LaBrie was a Rush fan sooooooo....I mean, that kind of makes him a prog fan even if he liked other straight forward metal as well. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: jammindude on March 10, 2018, 07:49:28 AM
Regardless of what JSS likes or dislikes, he is considered to be a prog rock legend by way of his performances on the first 3 Yngwie albums.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: max_security on March 10, 2018, 08:04:23 AM
Regardless of what JSS likes or dislikes, he is considered to be a prog rock legend by way of his performances on the first 3 Yngwie albums.

First 2 , but yeah I agree.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: TAC on March 11, 2018, 05:50:50 PM
Regardless of what JSS likes or dislikes, he is considered to be a prog rock legend by way of his performances on the first 3 Yngwie albums.

First 2 , but yeah I agree.

His performance on Marching Out is one of the easily a TAC Top 10 Vocal.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: KevShmev on March 11, 2018, 07:33:54 PM


His performance on Marching Out is one of the easily a TAC Top 10 Vocal.

Yeah, but making the TAC Top 10 Vocal list is like making the Circus Top 10 Keyboardists list in 1984. :P
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: TAC on March 11, 2018, 07:35:50 PM


His performance on Marching Out is one of the easily a TAC Top 10 Vocal.

Yeah, but making the TAC Top 10 Vocal list is like making the Circus Top 10 Keyboardists list in 1984. :P

Readers Poll Winners!

(https://i.pinimg.com/736x/47/c5/6b/47c56b824fdf16758683dbd89639c1bc--joe-elliott-def-leppard.jpg)

I had this issue!!!!!!
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: KevShmev on March 11, 2018, 07:36:52 PM
Was that the year Eddie Van Halen won best keyboardist because of Jump? :lol :lol

Check that: that came out in Feb 1984, EVH probably won it in 1985 since Jump would have still been too new.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: TAC on March 11, 2018, 07:37:41 PM
I think so!!  :lol
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: TAC on March 11, 2018, 07:42:18 PM
Kev, have you ever heard Marching Out? JSS is incredible.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: KevShmev on March 11, 2018, 07:45:52 PM
I will not be duped into listening to a Yngwie Malmsteen album.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: TAC on March 11, 2018, 07:52:10 PM
I will not be duped into listening to a Yngwie Malmsteen album.

 :lol

Kev, don't be like that! Marching Out is great album. Especially vocally. It is not "cartoon Yngwie". It's his second album. There's great guitar playing and great vocals.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: max_security on March 11, 2018, 07:54:59 PM
The first three YM albums are serious stuff.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: TAC on March 11, 2018, 07:57:08 PM
The first three YM albums are serious stuff.

Well, I still think Trilogy is terrible, but he made up for it with Odyssey.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: KevShmev on March 11, 2018, 07:57:50 PM
The first "serious" girlfriend I ever had liked some of his stuff and would play it on occasion.  I remember one song being good (have no clue what the name of it was), but the rest always make me wretch.  Granted, I was only 19 :lol :lol, but I knew then that a wanker like that was not for me.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: DT2003 on March 12, 2018, 05:43:13 PM


His performance on Marching Out is one of the easily a TAC Top 10 Vocal.

Yeah, but making the TAC Top 10 Vocal list is like making the Circus Top 10 Keyboardists list in 1984. :P
Man just seeing this brings back memories. I used to love getting all those magazines back when I was a kid.

Readers Poll Winners!

(https://i.pinimg.com/736x/47/c5/6b/47c56b824fdf16758683dbd89639c1bc--joe-elliott-def-leppard.jpg)

I had this issue!!!!!!
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: jammindude on March 12, 2018, 06:01:11 PM
Regardless of what JSS likes or dislikes, he is considered to be a prog rock legend by way of his performances on the first 3 Yngwie albums.

First 2 , but yeah I agree.

 I have not owned those albums since I had cassettes. But I had thought for years that he sang on Trilogy. Thank you for the correction!
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: devieira73 on March 13, 2018, 12:34:47 PM
From all the videos that I saw of SoA live, to me, this the best one (apparently uploaded today):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Yzk8DYjG4E
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Adami on March 13, 2018, 12:39:45 PM
From all the videos that I saw of SoA live, to me, this the best one (apparently uploaded today):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Yzk8DYjG4E

Quality wise, totally.

I'm skimming through it and JSS doesn't sound....good.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bill1971 on March 13, 2018, 04:12:43 PM
From all the videos that I saw of SoA live, to me, this the best one (apparently uploaded today):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Yzk8DYjG4E

Quality wise, totally.

I'm skimming through it and JSS doesn't sound....good.

Sounded fine on Opus Maximus.

I thought he sounded fine. Yotube doesn't always due a singer justice. I've heard clips of shows I have been to and don't remember it sounding that way at all.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: devieira73 on March 13, 2018, 05:04:17 PM
I think the video quality is great and the audio is good. About the performance... well, it’s good, but it’s a first show, so it’s normal to not be that great.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bosk1 on March 13, 2018, 05:09:12 PM
He sounded fine to me.  Not great.  But passable.  I've seen him enough time to know what he is capable of, so...
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Samsara on March 14, 2018, 09:04:52 AM
He sounded fine to me.  Not great.  But passable.  I've seen him enough time to know what he is capable of, so...

Same here. And if you watch the video of that show, he's on the verge of crying at least twice, and says it is a really emotional night. JSS will be fine. Can't wait for next month.  :metal
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Grappler on March 14, 2018, 09:17:18 AM
He sounded fine to me.  Not great.  But passable.  I've seen him enough time to know what he is capable of, so...

Same here. And if you watch the video of that show, he's on the verge of crying at least twice, and says it is a really emotional night. JSS will be fine. Can't wait for next month.  :metal

That reminded me of something, and I had to scan back through his FB page to confirm that his brother had died earlier that afternoon.  Kudos to Jeff for doing his best that night.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: axeman90210 on March 14, 2018, 09:28:48 AM
Haven't watched the clip, but he sounded great at the NJ show a week or two later.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: RodrigoAltaf on March 14, 2018, 04:22:26 PM
As fate will have it, I'll be interviewing Derek once again tomorrow...any questions for him?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ChuckSteak on March 14, 2018, 04:34:21 PM
As fate will have it, I'll be interviewing Derek once again tomorrow...any questions for him?
When is the new Planet X coming?  :-\
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: devieira73 on March 14, 2018, 04:37:10 PM
Maybe too early to ask this, but SoA already has an idea of the musical direction for the second CD to be recorded next year? Maybe more proggier or more hard/classic rock?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Adami on March 14, 2018, 04:42:39 PM
Are there currently any plans, perhaps for a future DVD release, to have JSS dress up as an actual Minotaur?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: RodrigoAltaf on March 14, 2018, 05:29:05 PM
Are there currently any plans, perhaps for a future DVD release, to have JSS dress up as an actual Minotaur?

  :laugh:

I want to ask him about the socks of Apollo.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: KevShmev on March 14, 2018, 06:47:14 PM
As fate will have it, I'll be interviewing Derek once again tomorrow...any questions for him?

Ask him if he will be forced to flip burgers if the Sons of Apollo gig doesn't pan out.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: TAC on March 14, 2018, 06:48:46 PM
As fate will have it, I'll be interviewing Derek once again tomorrow...any questions for him?

Ask him if he will be forced to flip burgers if the Sons of Apollo gig doesn't pan out.

Yeah, tell him I'll have a double cheese with no onions.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: jammindude on March 14, 2018, 06:50:00 PM
Ask him how “making history” is working out for him...
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: pcs90 on March 14, 2018, 06:51:40 PM
I'd like to know when we can expect him to begin using cheesy-ass gadgets on stage?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: TAC on March 14, 2018, 06:53:48 PM
Ask him what song will he use the Zen Riffer.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: The Walrus on March 14, 2018, 06:57:09 PM
(https://www.midwestsportsfans.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/mj-laughing.gif)
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Madman Shepherd on March 14, 2018, 07:26:08 PM
As fate will have it, I'll be interviewing Derek once again tomorrow...any questions for him?

Ask him about the disagreements with Soto. 

BTW, great interview with Soto.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: RodrigoAltaf on March 14, 2018, 08:52:30 PM
As fate will have it, I'll be interviewing Derek once again tomorrow...any questions for him?

Ask him about the disagreements with Soto. 

BTW, great interview with Soto.

Thanks, man! That was the one I felt most comfortable with so far, and I think it shows.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Cool Chris on March 14, 2018, 09:19:05 PM
Ask whatever you want, just show up wearing an "A Dramatic Turn of Events" t-shirt.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Adami on March 14, 2018, 09:22:44 PM
Ask whatever you want, just show up wearing an "A Dramatic Turn of Events" t-shirt.

Or make a custom shirt that says "Sacrificed Sons of Apollo"

Should confuse them enough.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: gborland on March 15, 2018, 02:55:55 AM
As fate will have it, I'll be interviewing Derek once again tomorrow...any questions for him?

Ask him how it feels to be playing the same tiny clubs he was playing on the FII tour 20 years ago?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: IDontNotDoThings on March 15, 2018, 02:57:28 AM
Damn, you guys are savage  :lol :corn
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: gzarruk on March 15, 2018, 10:40:01 AM
As fate will have it, I'll be interviewing Derek once again tomorrow...any questions for him?

Ask him how it feels to be playing the same tiny clubs he was playing on the FII tour 20 years ago?

Don't forget the same keyboard sounds from 20 years ago...
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Stadler on March 15, 2018, 10:49:32 AM
Savage?  Savage would be asking him if he's going to do a pure solo album or something like Planet P when Sons goes on "hiatus".
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: JayOctavarium on March 15, 2018, 10:58:21 AM
Ask whatever you want, just show up wearing an "A Dramatic Turn of Events" t-shirt.


I was wearing a ADTOE shirt when I met Derek a few years ago...
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: RodrigoAltaf on March 15, 2018, 01:12:54 PM
I asked him when will he release his app. You'll find the answer as soon as we publish the article. It'll be later today.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Madman Shepherd on March 15, 2018, 02:47:18 PM
Ask whatever you want, just show up wearing an "A Dramatic Turn of Events" t-shirt.


I was wearing a ADTOE shirt when I met Derek a few years ago...

An ADTOE shirt is to Portnoy what a Scenes From a Memory shirt is to Sherinian. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: RodrigoAltaf on March 16, 2018, 07:32:36 AM
And there it is:

https://www.sonicperspectives.com/interviews/interview-with-derek-sherinian/
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: devieira73 on March 16, 2018, 09:00:11 AM
Rodrigo, thanks a lot for asking my question!
Cool to know that Derek and Ron are already demoing some songs/ideas and that the recording should be before the end of the year!
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: RodrigoAltaf on March 16, 2018, 12:13:59 PM
No problem dude!

By the way, I spoke with Derek twice. We did a first attempt in the morning, but the call was awful and he didn't sound that engaged. He texted me in the afternoon and suggested to do it again. I only started doing this recently, and you can hear how nervous I was when talking to him. So surreal!!!!
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: RodrigoAltaf on March 17, 2018, 05:43:38 PM
Guys, I will talk to Bumblefoot tomorrow. Any questions for him?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Anguyen92 on March 17, 2018, 07:35:33 PM
I guess the only question for me is, "You worked with guys like Axl Rose, Mike Portnoy, Scott Weiland, Scott Stapp, etc.  Those guys that can have quite the, let's say, personality.  How do you keep yourself so level-headed and be fan-friendly when working with those guys with the big personalities?"
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Lethean on March 17, 2018, 09:04:55 PM
No problem dude!

By the way, I spoke with Derek twice. We did a first attempt in the morning, but the call was awful and he didn't sound that engaged. He texted me in the afternoon and suggested to do it again. I only started doing this recently, and you can hear how nervous I was when talking to him. So surreal!!!!

I wanna know what he said during that first call....
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: RodrigoAltaf on March 17, 2018, 10:41:54 PM
He just sounded not engaged and motivated...on our second attempt he said he had hardly woken up when we talked, and was a bit grumpy. At one point I asked him about the tour dates and his response was not as exciting as I expected. It's all good though, he got better as we moved on, but when he listened to it he said "let's try again". Like I said, the whole experience was quite surreal... I was on the way home, stopped to buy groceries, checked my phone and there was Derek saying "hey, call me when ready". Very cool!
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: pcs90 on March 17, 2018, 10:52:27 PM
His attitude in this interview is much better than how it was a few months ago. Nice interview as well.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: RodrigoAltaf on March 17, 2018, 10:56:58 PM
I guess the only question for me is, "You worked with guys like Axl Rose, Mike Portnoy, Scott Weiland, Scott Stapp, etc.  Those guys that can have quite the, let's say, personality.  How do you keep yourself so level-headed and be fan-friendly when working with those guys with the big personalities?"

Good question! Thanks!
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Adami on March 17, 2018, 11:06:49 PM
What are his career goals?

I mean, he went from playing HUGE crowds with GNR to tiny clubs with SOA and seems just as content with one as the other. So I'm curious where he hopes to go and how he hopes SOA will help him with that unless he wants to be the Rudy Sarzo of guitar.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: max_security on March 18, 2018, 01:13:27 AM
I'd like to know what's it been like so far on the road , common interests and such on the downtimes ? Maybe him and Billy are Buffalo Bills fans or something , or he and Soto go out and drink Nano-Brews ? Or maybe non of those , everyone is there at showtime and then see you on the next one ?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: TAC on March 18, 2018, 06:23:29 AM
I'd like to know what's it been like so far on the road , common interests and such on the downtimes ? Maybe him and Billy are Buffalo Bills fans or something , or he and Soto go out and drink Nano-Brews ? Or maybe non of those , everyone is there at showtime and then see you on the next one ?

Rock juice? :neverusethis:
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: RodrigoAltaf on March 18, 2018, 04:52:56 PM
We spoke for 46 minutes, and even without me asking he answered all the questions posted here. He's such a cool cat! I asked him to talk about two songs where he contributed the most - Signs of the Time and Lost in Oblivion, and he said "you know what? Let's do a track-by-track of the whole album". We addressed his solo career and his band with John Moyer, Art of Anarchy. I think it will be published tomorrow, and I'll post it here.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: MirrorMask on March 19, 2018, 02:19:24 AM
Sounds very cool!  :tup
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Stadler on March 19, 2018, 08:36:33 AM
I guess the only question for me is, "You worked with guys like Axl Rose, Mike Portnoy, Scott Weiland, Scott Stapp, etc.  Those guys that can have quite the, let's say, personality.  How do you keep yourself so level-headed and be fan-friendly when working with those guys with the big personalities?"

Do you really put Mike in the same category as Axl, Weiland, and Stapp?  They all have nonsense, but I don't know that the "nonsense" is the same.   One, it hasn't affected the music with Mike like it has with the others, and there is a substance issue with the others (at least Weiland and Stapp) that hasn't been present with Mike (and even if you say it has, it hasn't for the better part of two decades).

I don't argue that Mike has a social media problem, but that's not at all the same thing as the other three. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: RodrigoAltaf on March 19, 2018, 10:08:22 AM
Stadler, he did touch on the issue slightly, even without me asking. The ONE request he made before the interview was that I didn't ask anything about Guns n Roses, which I think was fair. He's done so much more!
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Samsara on March 19, 2018, 10:46:10 AM

Do you really put Mike in the same category as Axl, Weiland, and Stapp?  They all have nonsense, but I don't know that the "nonsense" is the same.   One, it hasn't affected the music with Mike like it has with the others, and there is a substance issue with the others (at least Weiland and Stapp) that hasn't been present with Mike (and even if you say it has, it hasn't for the better part of two decades).

I don't argue that Mike has a social media problem, but that's not at all the same thing as the other three.

Agreed. Mike doesn't seem to be anything like those three you mentioned at all. I think it's strictly him not knowing when to self-edit. His personality comes across is someone who gets excited and passionate, and while I can certainly relate (as I am sure many of us can), it sometimes doesn't translate to his online posting.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: gmillerdrake on March 19, 2018, 10:58:03 AM
Agreed. Mike doesn't seem to be anything like those three you mentioned at all. I think it's strictly him not knowing when to self-edit. His personality comes across is someone who gets excited and passionate, and while I can certainly relate (as I am sure many of us can), it sometimes doesn't translate to his online posting.

It's not just the self edit but MP's personality does not translate well to simple text. If you watch an interview with him and see/hear his comments you 'get' the context and understand where he's coming from. FB and Twitter posts with simple text are a different story.....he comes off as a conceited dick in a lot of them.

I'm not excusing or forgiving some of his more famous past social media exchanges, but....my point is as you mentioned....he needs to take a breath before hitting post as his communications are lost in translation a lot.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: The Walrus on March 19, 2018, 11:24:04 AM
Well I don't think Axl's personality has affected the music other than him being a perfectionist, it's not like he has a drug problem. I'd say he and Mike are similar in the ego department though, but one is a recluse, the other is not.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: MirrorMask on March 19, 2018, 12:39:44 PM
I can't see Mike Portnoy starting a concert three hours late however. Hell, one of his biggest misteps online was because he wanted to start a concert at all costs on time even if he was sick.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Stadler on March 19, 2018, 01:37:11 PM
Stadler, he did touch on the issue slightly, even without me asking. The ONE request he made before the interview was that I didn't ask anything about Guns n Roses, which I think was fair. He's done so much more!

Why do you think he asked that?   Like you said, he's done much more or he just didn't want that awkward pause when asked something he knew he couldn't answer?

Also, did he say anything about his health?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: RodrigoAltaf on March 19, 2018, 05:04:42 PM
With the GNR stuff, I think he's tired of the same questions and of people fishing for the ugly details of Axl and stuff.

We didn't talk about his health. I had a question about that, but felt it was already too long.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: DT2003 on March 19, 2018, 06:26:46 PM
I definitely don’t consider Mike like those other three. I think Mike cares too much and doesn’t know how to ignore comments and that’s what gets him in trouble sometimes. I don’t think he’s a bad person though and I don’t think that his ego is as bad as some people think, I think he’s just very passionate about the music he makes.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ganpondorodf on March 20, 2018, 02:00:00 AM
So passionate he insists on spending a whole week writing an album!
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: SwedishGoose on March 20, 2018, 02:25:53 AM
So passionate he insists on spending a whole week writing an album!

Spot on.......!
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: RodrigoAltaf on March 20, 2018, 03:49:19 AM
The album was recorded in a week and a half, but they had been throwing ideas at each other before that. Bumblefoot spoke about that in the interview, and said that "it's a good first album where we brought all our influences from the past into the writing, and for the second album we'll have the benefit of playing together a whole tour and feeding off from each other". I'm paraphrasing of course, but you'll hear that in the interview. No need to forcefully say good things about the album, but I find that this relentless criticism on MP is just unnecessary.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: svend_inge on March 20, 2018, 05:07:15 AM
The album was recorded in a week and a half, but they had been throwing ideas at each other before that. Bumblefoot spoke about that in the interview, and said that "it's a good first album where we brought all our influences from the past into the writing, and for the second album we'll have the benefit of playing together a whole tour and feeding off from each other". I'm paraphrasing of course, but you'll hear that in the interview. No need to forcefully say good things about the album, but I find that this relentless criticism on MP is just unnecessary.

Spot On ... :biggrin:
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Grappler on March 20, 2018, 10:35:54 AM
So I gave the record a break for a few months and am just coming back to it.  I loved it when it came out and I still feel the same - it sounds killer and it has some great playing and great songs.  What Rodrigo just said above is true - it will be interesting to see what they do on a second album after having spent more time together playing shows and gelling as a band. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: KevShmev on March 20, 2018, 05:23:44 PM
The album was recorded in a week and a half, but they had been throwing ideas at each other before that. Bumblefoot spoke about that in the interview, and said that "it's a good first album where we brought all our influences from the past into the writing, and for the second album we'll have the benefit of playing together a whole tour and feeding off from each other". I'm paraphrasing of course, but you'll hear that in the interview. No need to forcefully say good things about the album, but I find that this relentless criticism on MP is just unnecessary.

I think the issue there is that Portnoy always throws the "we wrote this album in a week!"-type comments out like it's a badge of honor, like "We are so awesome that we only needed a week to write and record this album that will blow your minds!!"  I get it, he is promoting a new album, and no one loves promoting themselves more than Mike Portnoy, but it's just kinda funny at this point how proud he always seems to be of rushed work.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: pcs90 on March 20, 2018, 08:09:36 PM
I think the issue there is that Portnoy always throws the "we wrote this album in a week!"-type comments out like it's a badge of honor, like "We are so awesome that we only needed a week to write and record this album that will blow your minds!!"  I get it, he is promoting a new album, and no one loves promoting themselves more than Mike Portnoy, but it's just kinda funny at this point how proud he always seems to be of rushed work.
Yep, exactly this.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: MirrorMask on March 21, 2018, 02:24:37 AM
I think Portnoy, and to a lesser degree Petrucci and Rudess, were spoiled by LTE's success. They saw that they COULD write amazing music in a short period of time, and they thought that was what would ALWAYS happen, regardless of the players involved or the kind of music meant to be written.

I feel there are some DT albums that contain not the best 77 minutes of music written, but the first 77 minutes of music written.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bill1971 on March 21, 2018, 08:56:29 AM
I think Portnoy, and to a lesser degree Petrucci and Rudess, were spoiled by LTE's success. They saw that they COULD write amazing music in a short period of time, and they thought that was what would ALWAYS happen, regardless of the players involved or the kind of music meant to be written.

I feel there are some DT albums that contain not the best 77 minutes of music written, but the first 77 minutes of music written.

Sometimes you can get lucky like Rush and New World Man. Initially called project 3:57.  https://www.songfacts.com/detail.php?id=3328

Neil Peart (from Stories From Signals, Signals Tourbook): "Writing it in one day and recording it the next! We wanted to capture a spontaneous, relaxed feel for this one, not even spending much time getting the sounds together. Thus, it could stand in contrast to the rest of the album, being much more raw and "live" in its affect. Two days is very close to a record for us to write and record a song." >>

Rush is not a singles band, as fans tend to buy the albums. "New World Man" is by far their highest-charting single, and their only Canadian #1. In America, it was the the only Rush song to crack the Top 40.

The working title for this song was "Project 3:57" because they were writing it in order to fill the three minutes and 57 seconds of record space left after the album's first seven songs were done.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Samsara on March 21, 2018, 09:00:44 AM
I never knew that! Thanks for sharing Bill!
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bosk1 on March 21, 2018, 09:04:10 AM
Interesting.  For me, the process takes as long as the process takes.  Depending on the artist, taking more time might or might not yield a "better" result.  To the artist, the material feels done and not "rushed."  You either like the result or you don't.  But I've never seen the point in complaining about it.  To me, it's silly to demand that an artist "should" have done X, Y, or Z and to knock them because they didn't meet your own expectations.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Adami on March 21, 2018, 09:08:06 AM
Interesting.  For me, the process takes as long as the process takes.  Depending on the artist, taking more time might or might not yield a "better" result.  To the artist, the material feels done and not "rushed."  You either like the result or you don't.  But I've never seen the point in complaining about it.  To me, it's silly to demand that an artist "should" have done X, Y, or Z and to knock them because they didn't meet your own expectations.

It's a good thing you're not Stadler, cause I totally agree.

I've written whole albums (musically) in a week, and they turned out amazing. I've taken over a year to write other albums, and they turned out just as good.

If I tried to write those year long albums in a week, they'd have turned out like crap. If I stretched out the writing process for the week long albums, they be missing that something special that came with a sense of urgency.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Stadler on March 21, 2018, 09:58:25 AM
The "time to write" thing doesn't bother me at all; some of the best albums I own were done in a relative blink of an eye.

What bugs me more is the "genre" type-casting.  "This is my prog project", "this is my metal project", "this is my gangsta rap project".  I think when Mike - and his bandmates - try to shoehorn into a genre, they run into trouble.  The best music, in my estimation, is that music that is without boundary.   Steve Howe playing jazz and country over Chris Squire's rock and Rick Wakeman's classical.   Robert Fripp's whatever the fuck it is playing over Bruford's jazz and Wetton's rock.   Sabbath was awesome when they were incorporating Ward's jazz and Ozzy/Geezer's Beatles over Iommi's blues.  They suffered, in my view, when Iommi was captaining the ship and he felt he had to live up to the "Riffmaster General" title.   
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ytserush on March 21, 2018, 03:38:28 PM
I think Portnoy, and to a lesser degree Petrucci and Rudess, were spoiled by LTE's success. They saw that they COULD write amazing music in a short period of time, and they thought that was what would ALWAYS happen, regardless of the players involved or the kind of music meant to be written.

I feel there are some DT albums that contain not the best 77 minutes of music written, but the first 77 minutes of music written.

Sometimes you can get lucky like Rush and New World Man. Initially called project 3:57.  https://www.songfacts.com/detail.php?id=3328

Neil Peart (from Stories From Signals, Signals Tourbook): "Writing it in one day and recording it the next! We wanted to capture a spontaneous, relaxed feel for this one, not even spending much time getting the sounds together. Thus, it could stand in contrast to the rest of the album, being much more raw and "live" in its affect. Two days is very close to a record for us to write and record a song." >>

Rush is not a singles band, as fans tend to buy the albums. "New World Man" is by far their highest-charting single, and their only Canadian #1. In America, it was the the only Rush song to crack the Top 40.

The working title for this song was "Project 3:57" because they were writing it in order to fill the three minutes and 57 seconds of record space left after the album's first seven songs were done.

I've always thought they succeeded at "Project 3:57" because they managed to do it in 3:42 (Depending on which CD you have.)
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Kwyjibo on March 22, 2018, 02:00:16 AM
I've got no problem with records being made fast and quick, but only if the result doesn't feel rushed. In the case of Psychotic Symphony I feel that it could have been improved if it was given more time to flesh things out. Write decent lyrics and more interesting and varying vocal lines, recognize that Coming Home and Alive have the same chorus, try to write better transitions between the different parts in God Of The Sun and Opus Maximus and so on.

So the "time to write" doesn't generally bother me, but in this case (and a few others) it does, but that's just me. And maybe the record would have been the same if they had spent half a year writing songs every day, but we will never know.

I hope that for the second one (if there is one), they will do things better.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Cyclopssss on March 22, 2018, 02:02:28 AM
The first two Transatlantic albums are examples that it can be done right, but after those, this became somewhat of a formula. And it more often doesn't work out.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: IDontNotDoThings on March 22, 2018, 04:33:58 AM
The first two Transatlantic albums are examples that it can be done right, but after those, this became somewhat of a formula. And it more often doesn't work out.

I haven't heard the first two TA albums, but I thought The Whirlwind was amazing. Psychotic Symphony on the other hand... is not. :\
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Kwyjibo on March 22, 2018, 06:12:51 AM
The rough ideas for Transatlantic are put together in a short time, that's true, but I think then comes a lot of fine tuning by the individuals before everything is complete. That was (maybe) missing on Psychotic Symphony.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Fritzinger on March 22, 2018, 06:49:34 AM
The first two Transatlantic albums are examples that it can be done right, but after those, this became somewhat of a formula. And it more often doesn't work out.

That's because Transatlantic have a mastermind named Neal Morse among them.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Stadler on March 22, 2018, 08:03:44 AM
The first two Transatlantic albums are examples that it can be done right, but after those, this became somewhat of a formula. And it more often doesn't work out.

I haven't heard the first two TA albums, but I thought The Whirlwind was amazing. Psychotic Symphony on the other hand... is not. :\

You might be pleased to hear "Bridge Across Forever", just sayin'. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: gmillerdrake on March 22, 2018, 08:11:09 AM
I think there are a couple solid songs on Psychotic Symphony......and there are instances of cool moments scattered throughout the CD. BUT.....you can certainly tell this was thrown together quickly.

I'd love to see them spend at least three or four months writing/recording their next album.....i think that'd end up producing a great sophomore album. As we've all mentioned....the talent is there....no doubt....so, hopefully they continue to build chemistry on this tour and then put a solid effort into the next album.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bill1971 on March 22, 2018, 08:49:46 AM
I think there are a couple solid songs on Psychotic Symphony......and there are instances of cool moments scattered throughout the CD. BUT.....you can certainly tell this was thrown together quickly.

I'd love to see them spend at least three or four months writing/recording their next album.....i think that'd end up producing a great sophomore album. As we've all mentioned....the talent is there....no doubt....so, hopefully they continue to build chemistry on this tour and then put a solid effort into the next album.

I agree with it sounding kind of thrown together but maybe it would sound like that if they worked on it for a year. People here keep bringing up Neal Morse, he is whether you like his music or not he is  a tremendously skilled song writer.

Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: OpenYourEyes311 on March 22, 2018, 09:39:34 AM
The first two Transatlantic albums are examples that it can be done right, but after those, this became somewhat of a formula. And it more often doesn't work out.

I haven't heard the first two TA albums, but I thought The Whirlwind was amazing. Psychotic Symphony on the other hand... is not. :\

You might be pleased to hear "Bridge Across Forever", just sayin'.

Seriously. I wish I could hear BAF for the first time again. :tup
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: metrojam on March 22, 2018, 12:29:10 PM
The album was recorded in a week and a half, but they had been throwing ideas at each other before that. Bumblefoot spoke about that in the interview, and said that "it's a good first album where we brought all our influences from the past into the writing, and for the second album we'll have the benefit of playing together a whole tour and feeding off from each other". I'm paraphrasing of course, but you'll hear that in the interview. No need to forcefully say good things about the album, but I find that this relentless criticism on MP is just unnecessary.

Spot on. It appears that "rule 12" no longer applies to "former DT members" just to the current ones!!
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Adami on March 22, 2018, 12:32:13 PM
The album was recorded in a week and a half, but they had been throwing ideas at each other before that. Bumblefoot spoke about that in the interview, and said that "it's a good first album where we brought all our influences from the past into the writing, and for the second album we'll have the benefit of playing together a whole tour and feeding off from each other". I'm paraphrasing of course, but you'll hear that in the interview. No need to forcefully say good things about the album, but I find that this relentless criticism on MP is just unnecessary.

Spot on. It appears that "rule 12" no longer applies to "former DT members" just to the current ones!!

I don't think criticism is a rule.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: The Walrus on March 22, 2018, 12:45:16 PM
Pretty sure bosk already addressed that many months ago anyway.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bosk1 on March 22, 2018, 12:49:22 PM
Many times over.  Nobody in their right mind who has read the rule could think anything in the last few pages comes close to a violation.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Anxiety35 on March 22, 2018, 01:00:07 PM
Sometimes it takes a few albums for a band to come into their own. Seems that many are critical because an expectation wasn't met, like the debut was supposed to be the best thing ever (regardless of the social media stunts leading up to the release). I'm not a SOA fanboy, but I haven't written them off. I had high expectations for this debut due to the personnel of the band but when I listened I wasn't blown away. I wasn't totally put off either.

They may gel over the tours this year. A riff or melody may come out in sound check jam session. They work on it for a while and it becomes a great song.

What if there is a second album and it is incredible?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: The Walrus on March 22, 2018, 01:06:17 PM
Then it's incredible.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Nick on March 22, 2018, 01:06:23 PM
Sometimes it takes a few albums for a band to come into their own. Seems that many are critical because an expectation wasn't met, like the debut was supposed to be the best thing ever (regardless of the social media stunts leading up to the release). I'm not a SOA fanboy, but I haven't written them off. I had high expectations for this debut due to the personnel of the band but when I listened I wasn't blown away. I wasn't totally put off either.

They may gel over the tours this year. A riff or melody may come out in sound check jam session. They work on it for a while and it becomes a great song.

What if there is a second album and it is incredible?

You can't just detach us from our expectations when the band puts us there. If we were given no info or hype and went into the album with expectations that weren't met, that's on us. But if the band puts certain ideas and expectations out there than you can't fault us for holding them to those standards.

Like you I am relatively happy though not blown away, and I will judge a second album when it comes out based on its merits then. It will have little bearing on how I view the debut.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Anxiety35 on March 22, 2018, 01:10:35 PM
Sometimes it takes a few albums for a band to come into their own. Seems that many are critical because an expectation wasn't met, like the debut was supposed to be the best thing ever (regardless of the social media stunts leading up to the release). I'm not a SOA fanboy, but I haven't written them off. I had high expectations for this debut due to the personnel of the band but when I listened I wasn't blown away. I wasn't totally put off either.

They may gel over the tours this year. A riff or melody may come out in sound check jam session. They work on it for a while and it becomes a great song.

What if there is a second album and it is incredible?

You can't just detach us from our expectations when the band puts us there. If we were given no info or hype and went into the album with expectations that weren't met, that's on us. But if the band puts certain ideas and expectations out there than you can't fault us for holding them to those standards.

Like you I am relatively happy though not blown away, and I will judge a second album when it comes out based on its merits then. It will have little bearing on how I view the debut.

They definitely didn't help themselves with how they hyped this release.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: devieira73 on March 22, 2018, 01:16:23 PM
Going back to the discussion of an album being made rushed or not... this discussion here reminded me a funny situation that occurred on my work, that I, with two colleagues, had to finish a report where, for legal reasons, the deadline was a bit tight. We succeeded to complete all the work near to deadline and I remember at the time, although very pleased with the results, I commented with one of these colleagues that if we had one more month to finish the work, that report would be even better. Then he told me "I'm sure if we had an extra month, we would make the exactly the same report, with the only difference that it would be delivered a month later ..."  :D :D :D
I don't know, maybe we had the same Psychotic Symphony album maybe not, but I guess, for a second one, the fact the band is now a more "real" band, with time touring and knowing each other better, it will no doubt benefit the compositions (and I already like this first album a lot).
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: gmillerdrake on March 22, 2018, 01:31:23 PM
You can't just detach us from our expectations when the band puts us there. If we were given no info or hype and went into the album with expectations that weren't met, that's on us. But if the band puts certain ideas and expectations out there than you can't fault us for holding them to those standards.

They definitely didn't help themselves with how they hyped this release.

For me this where my issue with the album was. Derek and MP....the hype.....bashing and social media/promotional behavior leading into the release was over the top. Had they just played it cool and let the album release....I'd have received it better than I initially did. But they put a bad taste in my mouth months before any music was heard.


that being said....I think there was/is promise for the second album as this album.....when stripped away from all the BS and baggage from the lead in to it's release....wasn't a 'bad' album but it most certainly wasn't the album that they were promoting and saying it was going to be.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on March 22, 2018, 01:40:18 PM
Sometimes it takes a few albums for a band to come into their own. Seems that many are critical because an expectation wasn't met, like the debut was supposed to be the best thing ever (regardless of the social media stunts leading up to the release). I'm not a SOA fanboy, but I haven't written them off. I had high expectations for this debut due to the personnel of the band but when I listened I wasn't blown away. I wasn't totally put off either.

They may gel over the tours this year. A riff or melody may come out in sound check jam session. They work on it for a while and it becomes a great song.

What if there is a second album and it is incredible?

Taking out their own hype, I pretty much agree with this.  Most bands when they release thier debut, they had been jamming and working together for awhile before they've found a coherent sound and write an album.  This band really seems to have only come together because Ritchie Kotzen wanted some time off from Winery Dogs and MP needed something else to do.  Because of that, there was no jamming no meshing (at least not enough of it IMO) to really be able to form good music.  They all have the chops and there's so much potential with this album.  There are some really awesome moments that just don't form one coherent album though, it screams of being rushed to my ears and it really was.  A year on the road together, playing together, spending time together, hopefully jamming together, and I think they could come up with a really strong follow up.

If there's a second album, I'd bet it's better than the first.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: gzarruk on March 22, 2018, 02:17:42 PM
Sometimes it takes a few albums for a band to come into their own. Seems that many are critical because an expectation wasn't met, like the debut was supposed to be the best thing ever (regardless of the social media stunts leading up to the release). I'm not a SOA fanboy, but I haven't written them off. I had high expectations for this debut due to the personnel of the band but when I listened I wasn't blown away. I wasn't totally put off either.

They may gel over the tours this year. A riff or melody may come out in sound check jam session. They work on it for a while and it becomes a great song.

What if there is a second album and it is incredible?

Taking out their own hype, I pretty much agree with this.  Most bands when they release thier debut, they had been jamming and working together for awhile before they've found a coherent sound and write an album.  This band really seems to have only come together because Ritchie Kotzen wanted some time off from Winery Dogs and MP needed something else to do.  Because of that, there was no jamming no meshing (at least not enough of it IMO) to really be able to form good music.  They all have the chops and there's so much potential with this album.  There are some really awesome moments that just don't form one coherent album though, it screams of being rushed to my ears and it really was.  A year on the road together, playing together, spending time together, hopefully jamming together, and I think they could come up with a really strong follow up.

If there's a second album, I'd bet it's better than the first.

Nailed it.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: RodrigoAltaf on March 22, 2018, 09:17:09 PM
Here´s the interview with Bumblefoot, at last:

https://www.sonicperspectives.com/interviews/interview-with-ron-bumblefoot-thal/
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Stadler on March 23, 2018, 08:05:01 AM
I don't disagree with the "rushed" aspect, and I'll add my usual "genre" criticism, but fair question:  do we really think we'd like this better if there was different hype before?   I mean, the record is what the record is, and I can't say it's reasonable to expect Mike and Derek to say "Hey guys, we put this little thing together in a week and it shows!   The chroruses are a little same-y and the vocals - well, let's not talk about the vocals right now.   But next time, we might nail it better.  Or maybe not, but in any event, we're not going to do even one more tweet than necessary to just let you know the material is out there!"   They're both aggressive, forward promoters for their music, and I'm not sure we should expect anything different (I'm only talking about the actual promotion; not reopening the can of worms on the other stuff.)
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: deggs37 on March 23, 2018, 08:06:49 AM
Here´s the interview with Bumblefoot, at last:

https://www.sonicperspectives.com/interviews/interview-with-ron-bumblefoot-thal/

Thanks, Rodrigo! Was really looking forward to this. Bumblefoot has been on my radar for a while due to the Guns 'N Roses connection, but I never really dug any deeper than that. After this experience with Sons of Apollo, I've really developed a huge amount of respect for him. He is a monster player, with creativity to match that - as well as being incredibly down to earth and humble (from all that I've seen so far). Really reminds me of why I got into John Petrucci back in the day.

I voted a 7 for for Psychotic Symphony, but I have high hopes for their next release. I think if they treat it right they can really do something special.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: devieira73 on March 23, 2018, 08:59:23 AM
Really good interview! I love the way Ron talks a lot, in a very detailed way, but also about relevant things connected with the questions.
Interesting that I got the impression, while he was talking about the way they will make the second album and although he didn't say it clearly, that he thinks the first album could be more worked.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bosk1 on March 23, 2018, 09:03:50 AM
Really good interview! I love the way Ron talks a lot, in a very detailed way, but also about relevant things connected with the questions.

Agreed.  That was fantastic.  I feel like I gained a lot of insight into him as a musician and person from that, and it all just felt so genuine.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: RodrigoAltaf on March 23, 2018, 09:48:24 AM
Thanks guys!!! Since doing the interview aí also gained even more respect for Ron, and checked out his solo work, which is really good.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: JayOctavarium on March 23, 2018, 09:50:23 AM
Here´s the interview with Bumblefoot, at last:

https://www.sonicperspectives.com/interviews/interview-with-ron-bumblefoot-thal/


I'm enjoying this immensely.

Thank you!
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Schurftkut on March 23, 2018, 06:47:41 PM
i think one of the wisest moves MP did was making the other bandmembers talk about the band, doing interviews and promos. They're the ones who don't make themselves talk about how great they are and whatnot, they're the ones who are relatable and show genuine motivation/interests. Not all the hype stuff MP does, always comparing themselves to other artists etc..
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on March 23, 2018, 07:22:22 PM
Really good interview! I love the way Ron talks a lot, in a very detailed way, but also about relevant things connected with the questions.

Agreed.  That was fantastic.  I feel like I gained a lot of insight into him as a musician and person from that, and it all just felt so genuine.

Listened to about half of it this morning and was well done.  I feel Ron is the saving grace of this band at least to me.  His performance is fresh (once again, to me) and really awesome.  From the live videos, he has great stage presence and is a show man.  And while I knew nothing about him before this, he came across as a pretty chill guy in the interview and the way he talked about the music showed to me how much he was into it.  How he kept singing along to the song rhythms and whatnot was really cool. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: RodrigoAltaf on March 23, 2018, 08:32:37 PM
Thanks again! I´m a new writer/interviewer on the Sonic Perspectives website, and was told today that it´s already the most watched interview there!
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Fritzinger on March 24, 2018, 03:13:53 AM
Apparently the band released a six track EP with Spanish, acoustic and radio-edit versions of Alive. They'll also release a video. I seriously don't understand the purpose of this.

Quote
It’s a great day to be a Sons Of Apollo fan!!! OUT TODAY is our new 6-Song EP for ALIVE / TENGO VIDA! Yes, 6 different versions: English, Spanish, Acoustic & Radio Edits! Get it NOW:
https://soa.lnk.to/AliveTengoVidaEP
(And coming at the beginning of next week is the TENGO VIDA Music Video...)
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Train of Naught on March 24, 2018, 03:30:38 AM
Oh my god, the Spanish version is fucking funny. I seriously hope they do not play that when I see them (yes, I'm actually going to a festival this summer where SoA happens to be playing)

My Spanish isn't world-class, but I'm preeeeeetty sure "tengo vida" does not mean "I'm alive" but "I have life" which really doesn't mean anything
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Fritzinger on March 24, 2018, 03:56:09 AM
Some things translate differently into other languages. Also, JSS has Puerto Rican roots, I think he will be able to translate the song correctly :)
Still, I agree, it sounds funny.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: MirrorMask on March 24, 2018, 05:19:01 AM
Apparently the band released a six track EP with Spanish, acoustic and radio-edit versions of Alive. They'll also release a video. I seriously don't understand the purpose of this.

I assume it's the same purpose of everything else re-recorded in a different language, to appeal more to the native speakers of that language.

Apparently this is somehow a thing in music industry - I remember the reverse example, when Megadeth re-recorded A Tout Le Monde with Cristina Scabbia as guest vocalist, they were pressured to add "Set me free" as sub-title to appeal more to the non speaking french people out there (I still remember Dave Mustaine in an interview explaining this... "People don't know how to pronounce the title" - "I sing it in the chorus, they hear it there how it's pronounced" - "Nah, let's go for Set Me Free as well")
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: RodrigoAltaf on March 24, 2018, 05:24:10 AM
David Lee Roth also released a Spanish version of Eat em and Smile, and Billy Sheehan suggested it at the time. It might have been his idea for SOA to do it as well. And no, it's not a direct translation - it's very difficult to translate lyrics line by line with the same meaning and fit the translation into the metrics of the song, so when this is done the bands adapt the lyrics a little bit.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: gzarruk on March 24, 2018, 03:31:07 PM
Sorry, but this EP is a monumental waste of time. Radio edits are just a lesser version of the original song and JSS doesn’t sound convincing at all on the spanish version. The only cool thing here is the acoustic version, if you care about that kind of stuff.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Enigmachine on March 26, 2018, 03:40:31 AM
Apparently the band released a six track EP with Spanish, acoustic and radio-edit versions of Alive. They'll also release a video. I seriously don't understand the purpose of this.

Quote
It’s a great day to be a Sons Of Apollo fan!!! OUT TODAY is our new 6-Song EP for ALIVE / TENGO VIDA! Yes, 6 different versions: English, Spanish, Acoustic & Radio Edits! Get it NOW:
https://soa.lnk.to/AliveTengoVidaEP
(And coming at the beginning of next week is the TENGO VIDA Music Video...)

I would argue that no song deserves six different versions by the same band, least of all this. It's an okay song, nothing more.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Nekov on March 26, 2018, 05:49:36 AM
Oh my god, the Spanish version is fucking funny. I seriously hope they do not play that when I see them (yes, I'm actually going to a festival this summer where SoA happens to be playing)

My Spanish isn't world-class, but I'm preeeeeetty sure "tengo vida" does not mean "I'm alive" but "I have life" which really doesn't mean anything

While the translation is not 100% accurate, both of those have the same meaning and "tengo vida" might fit the lyrics better that "Estoy vivo" which is how you actually say I'm alive.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: The Walrus on March 26, 2018, 06:39:17 AM
Of all the things to release in 6 languages why the hell would you pick the most boring song on the album next to Figaro's Whore and Coming Home? 'cause estoy vivooo (estoy vivoooo)
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: gzarruk on March 26, 2018, 06:42:48 AM
Oh my god, the Spanish version is fucking funny. I seriously hope they do not play that when I see them (yes, I'm actually going to a festival this summer where SoA happens to be playing)

My Spanish isn't world-class, but I'm preeeeeetty sure "tengo vida" does not mean "I'm alive" but "I have life" which really doesn't mean anything

While the translation is not 100% accurate, both of those have the same meaning and "tengo vida" might fit the lyrics better that "Estoy vivo" which is how you actually say I'm alive.

“Vivo estoy” is more accurate and works much better than “tengo vida”.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Kwyjibo on March 26, 2018, 06:43:53 AM
Of all the things to release in 6 languages why the hell would you pick the most boring song on the album next to Figaro's Whore and Coming Home? 'cause estoy vivooo (estoy vivoooo)

Figaro's Whore in six different languages would be a nice addition.  :metal
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: The Walrus on March 26, 2018, 07:10:26 AM
Of all the things to release in 6 languages why the hell would you pick the most boring song on the album next to Figaro's Whore and Coming Home? 'cause estoy vivooo (estoy vivoooo)

Figaro's Whore in six different languages would be a nice addition.  :metal

 :lol

*progs in French*
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Ben_Jamin on March 26, 2018, 07:27:44 AM
I will say....


Labyrinth kicks so much ass...especially live. That has to be my favorite song.

Bumblefoot and JSS shine on this song, makes me wonder...is BS the weakest of the group?
Still don't understand why BS has a double neck.

I will say though....Labryinth is what the rest of the album should've been.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Samsara on March 27, 2018, 01:56:16 PM
Listened to the album again in its entirety. I just can't shake the feeling this could have been much better with a different singer. I just don't think JSS' voice and the music are a good match. It needs a more dynamic singer. And don't get me wrong, I love JSS, just...this just doesn't do it.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: gzarruk on March 27, 2018, 02:54:12 PM
Listened to the album again in its entirety. I just can't shake the feeling this could have been much better with a different singer. I just don't think JSS' voice and the music are a good match. It needs a more dynamic singer. And don't get me wrong, I love JSS, just...this just doesn't do it.

Completely agree. When I first listened to it, I could’t stop thinking on how much better the songs could’ve sounded with someone like Russell Allen, for example.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: The Walrus on March 27, 2018, 02:59:06 PM
Just for a lark, I wanted to see if there were still many tickets available for the May 12th show in St. Charles, IL. Well, the ticketmaster map doesn't show me availability, but they have two sections for tickets: $74 for the BALCONY seats, or $114 for main floor tickets. And that's not even including all the fees.

EDIT: Okay, so Ticketmaster didn't tell me this but apparently I was looking at resale tickets? So are they sold out, or what? Those are the only options, $74 and $114. This doesn't make sense to me. Tickets range from $23-69 according to SoA's site. What's up? I legit thought everybody just sold tickets through ticketmaster in general...
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ProfessorPeart on March 27, 2018, 03:10:36 PM
Just for a lark, I wanted to see if there were still many tickets available for the May 12th show in St. Charles, IL. Well, the ticketmaster map doesn't show me availability, but they have two sections for tickets: $74 for the BALCONY seats, or $114 for main floor tickets. And that's not even including all the fees.

You have got to be shitting me. The first go round tickets were like $25-30, and they don't even draw a massive audience. What a joke  :lol

Speaking from experience, Onesti charges ridiculous prices on a regular basis for shows at the Arcada. I believe these are more him than who the performer is. The man is an endless talker who pimps himself out before/during/after every show there. He can't stop talking.

For instance, the first time I saw the Winery Dogs the tix were like $25 at a different venue. The next time around (same tour) they were at the Arcada and Onesti wanted like $50 or $60 for the cheapest tix.

Rear of the balcony for SOA is $29. I saw Queensryche in the balcony and it's not a bad seat at all. Those were roughly $100 (after fees) tickets in the front of the balcony for the current lineup minus Rockenfield. Honestly, there are no bad seats at the Arcada, really.

You can find better ticket details here:

https://www.etix.com/ticket/v/12589/the-arcada-theatre

I can't stand the man (Onesti), but he does bring some decent shows to within 30 minutes of where I live.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: The Walrus on March 27, 2018, 03:16:05 PM
Thanks for that, Professor! Much better. And hey, turns out Dweezil Zappa and King's X are coming through around that time too. Thanks double :)
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: pg1067 on March 27, 2018, 03:23:32 PM
$25 for the show at the House of Blues in Anaheim...PLUS the 11 fucking dollars in "service fees"!  $36 isn't bad at all, but just charge $36.  Don't tell me it's $25 and then add bullshit service fees that amount to 44% of the ticket price.  I wonder if I can just go to the box office and buy a ticket....
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Anguyen92 on March 27, 2018, 03:50:08 PM
$25 for the show at the House of Blues in Anaheim...PLUS the 11 fucking dollars in "service fees"!  $36 isn't bad at all, but just charge $36.  Don't tell me it's $25 and then add bullshit service fees that amount to 44% of the ticket price.  I wonder if I can just go to the box office and buy a ticket....

Same thing happened to me while buying tickets to see Halestorm and Breaking Benjamin at the same venue.  Halestorm was $35.00 (fees were $11.50).  Breaking Benjamin was $45 ($13.50 in fees!).  It also made me mad that the month before the Halestorm concert (after I bought the ticket), Anaheim HOB was doing a sale where tickets for Halestorm were $25.00.  At least, parking is more reasonable there.  You get the first two hours for free once the HOB validates your parking ticket and afterwards, it is $3.00 a hour.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on March 27, 2018, 06:41:29 PM
$25 for the show at the House of Blues in Anaheim...PLUS the 11 fucking dollars in "service fees"!  $36 isn't bad at all, but just charge $36.  Don't tell me it's $25 and then add bullshit service fees that amount to 44% of the ticket price.  I wonder if I can just go to the box office and buy a ticket....

You should call their box office, it's very possible you can avoid fees with this method.  Or just buy at the door, assuming GA and it won't sell out (probably won't but I don't know the venue). I've learned that there's no point in buying GA tickets for shows early that won't sell out, because often there are deals wether between their own box office or resale.  Trying to get a seat, well that's a different story.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Stadler on March 28, 2018, 09:05:13 AM
$25 for the show at the House of Blues in Anaheim...PLUS the 11 fucking dollars in "service fees"!  $36 isn't bad at all, but just charge $36.  Don't tell me it's $25 and then add bullshit service fees that amount to 44% of the ticket price.  I wonder if I can just go to the box office and buy a ticket....

You should call their box office, it's very possible you can avoid fees with this method.  Or just buy at the door, assuming GA and it won't sell out (probably won't but I don't know the venue). I've learned that there's no point in buying GA tickets for shows early that won't sell out, because often there are deals wether between their own box office or resale.  Trying to get a seat, well that's a different story.

Here in Hartford, which is almost all done by the same promoter - if you wait for lawn seats at the local amphitheater, you can  basically get in  for $20 no matter who the show is.    They just dump lawn seats right before the show (or walk up).   It's a 20,000 seat venue, so if the lawn is open, unless it's DMB or Pearl Jam (or some of the rap shows) you're in.

Suffice to say, though, Sons of Apollo are NOT playing there.  ;)
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: The Walrus on March 28, 2018, 09:30:40 AM
Can't be arsed to look through the wayback pages of the thread or listen to the dreadful album myself but which song has the part that sounds like Haken? Because I'm listening to 1985 as part of my roulette and holy hell is that a blatant ripoff. What was it, God of the Sun?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Grappler on March 28, 2018, 09:45:49 AM
Just for a lark, I wanted to see if there were still many tickets available for the May 12th show in St. Charles, IL. Well, the ticketmaster map doesn't show me availability, but they have two sections for tickets: $74 for the BALCONY seats, or $114 for main floor tickets. And that's not even including all the fees.

You have got to be shitting me. The first go round tickets were like $25-30, and they don't even draw a massive audience. What a joke  :lol

Speaking from experience, Onesti charges ridiculous prices on a regular basis for shows at the Arcada. I believe these are more him than who the performer is. The man is an endless talker who pimps himself out before/during/after every show there. He can't stop talking.

For instance, the first time I saw the Winery Dogs the tix were like $25 at a different venue. The next time around (same tour) they were at the Arcada and Onesti wanted like $50 or $60 for the cheapest tix.

Rear of the balcony for SOA is $29. I saw Queensryche in the balcony and it's not a bad seat at all. Those were roughly $100 (after fees) tickets in the front of the balcony for the current lineup minus Rockenfield. Honestly, there are no bad seats at the Arcada, really.

You can find better ticket details here:

https://www.etix.com/ticket/v/12589/the-arcada-theatre

I can't stand the man (Onesti), but he does bring some decent shows to within 30 minutes of where I live.

Fully agreed - I'd love to see some of the shows at the Arcada Theater, but I refuse to pay over $100 for a decent floor seat in a theater for a band like Anthrax or Queensryche, where tickets cost half of that or less at a regular concert hall.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: RoeDent on March 28, 2018, 10:01:27 AM
Are SoA really that popular that they get to book extra tour dates? Well, there goes my hope of Flying Colors III happening any time soon...
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bosk1 on March 28, 2018, 10:07:23 AM
I think FC III is already underway, as I understand it.  But they aren't mutually exclusive.  Mike and the other guys in FC have said they are committed to FC III, so I wouldn't worry about it.  The way they work, they develop ideas on their own and shoot ideas back and forth, so when they actually come together, the "writing" goes quickly (as is the case with a lot of MP projects). 

But as far as SoA and more tour dates, they are doing exactly what they said they would do--committing 2018 to give as big a push as possible to get the band out there.  Whether they succeed or fail, the effort and commitment are to be admired.  (contrast with Queensryche's lack thereof since ousting Tate)
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: RodrigoAltaf on March 28, 2018, 04:44:34 PM
Are SoA really that popular that they get to book extra tour dates? Well, there goes my hope of Flying Colors III happening any time soon...

In my interview with Neal Morse he said "FC III is up in the air".
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Anguyen92 on April 14, 2018, 11:46:31 PM
So, I'm looking at Groupon for some good concert deals and the SOA show at the Anaheim House of Blues is on it and GA tickets are at $20.00 for the time being.  Is buying tickets on Groupon legit and I can buy it at that price without any additional fees?  If so, it's pretty darn tempting. 

The problem is for me is that I'm seeing Myles Kennedy on May 6th and the SOA show is on May 4th and I don't think I would be able to handle two concerts in that time span.  Maybe if the shows were three days apart, I would be tempted a bit more.

Also, look at this particular description on the "whose in the band" description on the Groupon page.

"Mike Portnoy and Derek Sherinian: the former an award-winning drummer, the latter a keyboardist who’s played with Alice Cooper and KISS—together they co-founded prog-metal band Dream Theater."  That's new to me, I didn't know Derek co-founded DT.  ::) :o
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: pcs90 on April 15, 2018, 12:20:17 AM
Now that right there is a fail!
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ReaperKK on April 15, 2018, 06:26:06 AM
I've bought tickets via groupon before, you have nothing to worry about, it's legit.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on April 15, 2018, 07:05:31 AM
I've bought tickets via groupon before, you have nothing to worry about, it's legit.

Same and there are no fees
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: KevShmev on April 15, 2018, 08:41:17 AM
$20 is way too much money to spend on seeing this side project.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: max_security on April 15, 2018, 11:22:14 AM
$20 is way too much money to spend on seeing this side project.

Well , maybe too much for the end - all of progressive metal supergroups . But I would pay 20 bucks to watch Mike and Billy play Nickleback ( or insert lame band here ) covers . Plus I think Mike said this is his main band from here on out !!! 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ganpondorodf on April 15, 2018, 11:46:32 AM
If Mike said that, it must be true!
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Schurftkut on April 15, 2018, 01:21:01 PM
Then again, Billy says the Winery Dogs are his favorite band..  ::)
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: max_security on April 15, 2018, 03:31:16 PM
Then again, Billy says the Winery Dogs are his favorite band..  ::)

I know , and he does not talk much about this one.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: RodrigoAltaf on April 15, 2018, 10:04:51 PM
They just played a few shows in Brazil, and had a blast!!!! The crowds there love Soto and Portnoy.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on April 16, 2018, 06:58:48 AM
Then again, Billy says the Winery Dogs are his favorite band..  ::)

I know , and he does not talk much about this one.

Well, if Ritchie didn't want a break, TWD would have probably done an album and be touring this year and we wouldn't have SOA.  Billy seems like a pretty positive attitude type of guy, I'm sure he doesn't want to say anything to make Ritchie or SOA look bad by expressing such an opinion.  Just my thoughts. (I had no idea Billy said TWD were his favorite)
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Samsara on April 16, 2018, 08:44:32 AM
Not sure about other places, but Sons of Apollo is available as a Groupon special in my city. I bought a ticket when the show was announced, but they are now on 2 for 1...show must not be selling. Sucks.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: The Walrus on April 16, 2018, 09:04:39 AM
Not sure about other places, but Sons of Apollo is available as a Groupon special in my city. I bought a ticket when the show was announced, but they are now on 2 for 1...show must not be selling. Sucks.

Can we just be honest and admit this is Adrenaline Mob 2.0 but with prog instead of frat boy metal?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: theanalogkid7 on April 17, 2018, 10:03:30 AM
Gotta say, the album itself just doesn't do anything for me really.  However, I just saw a cover of Lines in the Sand on YouTube and it was actually pretty great!  I might have to try to give the SoA album another listen now.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Madman Shepherd on April 17, 2018, 02:36:24 PM
Don't know if this has been posted but I came across this today.  Jeff and Ron are fucking hilarious.  I was cracking up throughout. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y4ZyJqxKcj0

There's also a Winery Dogs episode with Ritchie and Billy and Billy was pretty funny too. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: TH1RT3EN on April 19, 2018, 06:22:47 PM
I will say....


Labyrinth kicks so much ass...especially live. That has to be my favorite song.

Bumblefoot and JSS shine on this song, makes me wonder...is BS the weakest of the group?
Still don't understand why BS has a double neck.

I will say though....Labryinth is what the rest of the album should've been.

The lower neck features just a regular scale, while the higher one is fretless. And by the way, I talked to Billy Sheehan after their concert in São Paulo and he told me Ron tunes the fretless neck as a 7 string guitar with only 6 strings (getting rid of the high E and adding a low B), so that's different too. That's the same reason why Billy uses a double neck bass, he tunes the lower neck in EADG and the higher one in BEAD (from low to high).
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: gzarruk on April 19, 2018, 10:20:48 PM
I will say....


Labyrinth kicks so much ass...especially live. That has to be my favorite song.

Bumblefoot and JSS shine on this song, makes me wonder...is BS the weakest of the group?
Still don't understand why BS has a double neck.

I will say though....Labryinth is what the rest of the album should've been.

The lower neck features just a regular scale, while the higher one is fretless. And by the way, I talked to Billy Sheehan after their concert in São Paulo and he told me Ron tunes the fretless neck as a 7 string guitar with only 6 strings (getting rid of the high E and adding a low B), so that's different too. That's the same reason why Billy uses a double neck bass, he tunes the lower neck in EADG and the higher one in BEAD (from low to high).

Ron’s double neck guitar is very cool and serves a purpose. Billy’s double neck bass is just a gimmick, he could do just that way easily if he had a 5 string bass.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: TH1RT3EN on April 20, 2018, 05:13:51 AM
I will say....


Labyrinth kicks so much ass...especially live. That has to be my favorite song.

Bumblefoot and JSS shine on this song, makes me wonder...is BS the weakest of the group?
Still don't understand why BS has a double neck.

I will say though....Labryinth is what the rest of the album should've been.

The lower neck features just a regular scale, while the higher one is fretless. And by the way, I talked to Billy Sheehan after their concert in São Paulo and he told me Ron tunes the fretless neck as a 7 string guitar with only 6 strings (getting rid of the high E and adding a low B), so that's different too. That's the same reason why Billy uses a double neck bass, he tunes the lower neck in EADG and the higher one in BEAD (from low to high).

Ron’s double neck guitar is very cool and serves a purpose. Billy’s double neck bass is just a gimmick, he could do just that way easily if he had a 5 string bass.

That was the first thing that crossed my mind as well, but then he proceeded to explain that the strings are in the shape or an arch which, for him, is the ideal one when it's a 4-string bass. Whenever you add another string, that shape changes a little bit by becoming flatter (a 6-string bass has them all almost totally flat), so he prefers adding a whole neck instead of just adding another string. Absolutely not practical, but I guess he can get away with that kind of stuff (it's Billy Sheehan, after all!).
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: DTA on April 20, 2018, 05:19:18 AM
Don't know if this has been posted but I came across this today.  Jeff and Ron are fucking hilarious.  I was cracking up throughout. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y4ZyJqxKcj0

There's also a Winery Dogs episode with Ritchie and Billy and Billy was pretty funny too.

That was fun. Jeff and Ron are so damn likeable. I'm also surprised to see that much alcohol on the bus with MP involved, though I guess he has it under control by this point.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: RodrigoAltaf on April 21, 2018, 05:27:46 AM
Saw them in Toronto last night, and haven't had this much fun in a concert for a loooong time!!! Jeff is a monster on stage, and walked around the crowd when they played And the Cradle Will Rock. The band was on fire, even though there were some issues with the P.A. I took some pictures with Billy, Mike and Bumblefoot after the show. Derek had family in the house and didn't hang out, and Jeff was resting after the show.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Orbert on April 21, 2018, 06:42:23 AM
Sons of Apollo seems like the type of band that would put on a great show, regardless of what you might think of their album.  The album is something that they threw together in a week, by their own admission.  At this point, they've played it all many times and are comfortable with the material, and they're all seasoned professional musicians.  They can play their own stuff, or cover some other good songs, do it up, have some fun with it, and everyone in the place has a good time.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Polarbear on April 21, 2018, 09:46:20 AM
Their album does really feel like it was thrown together in a very short amount of time.. I did listen to it again with a fresh perspective, and it was a bit better. Signs of the Time is probably my favorite.

They could still have a bright future. This lineup has a lot of potential, and if they make a more focused effort with their sophomore album, they could be in a great position for the future.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Cool Chris on April 21, 2018, 12:23:11 PM
I'm not sure how much stock I put in the "future" and "potential" of a band where one of the members is 65 and everyone else is in their 50s.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Adami on April 21, 2018, 12:34:37 PM
I'm not sure how much stock I put in the "future" and "potential" of a band where one of the members is 65 and everyone else is in their 50s.

I am not, at all, a fan of this band, but BS seems to be the least involved or interested member thus far. I'd imagine he'd be the easiest and most likely to replace if necessary.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: PROGdrummer on April 21, 2018, 03:40:22 PM
I just realized the other day that Dug Pinnick would probably be a really good fit for this band if Sheehan ever stepped out. He could offer alot vocal wise, and he and Soto even have similar vocal tones. Plus his bass playing is equally out of this world.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Destiny Of Chaos on April 21, 2018, 05:28:42 PM
I don't care if the album was recorded in 1 week or even one day.....I love it and would put it up against any of the post Portnoy DT albums with no issue.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: RodrigoAltaf on April 21, 2018, 08:26:23 PM
I don't care if the album was recorded in 1 week or even one day.....I love it and would put it up against any of the post Portnoy DT albums with no issue.

Same here.

Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: gzarruk on April 21, 2018, 08:39:52 PM
I'm not sure how much stock I put in the "future" and "potential" of a band where one of the members is 65 and everyone else is in their 50s.

I am not, at all, a fan of this band, but BS seems to be the least involved or interested member thus far. I'd imagine he'd be the easiest and most likely to replace if necessary.

Agree. Of all the bands/projects Billy is currently on, he seems most excited about Mr. Big and TWD (if they're "still a thing").
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: max_security on April 22, 2018, 06:32:28 AM
I'm not sure how much stock I put in the "future" and "potential" of a band where one of the members is 65 and everyone else is in their 50s.

I am not, at all, a fan of this band, but BS seems to be the least involved or interested member thus far. I'd imagine he'd be the easiest and most likely to replace if necessary.

Agree. Of all the bands/projects Billy is currently on, he seems most excited about Mr. Big and TWD (if they're "still a thing").

A lot has to do with his sound as much of it gets lost behind keyboards or guitar players with wider sounds so a three piece band with thinner guitar tone is where he wants to be I would guess. He just moved from LA to Nashville too so I'm thinking he has enough going on to be just a dude in a band for a change.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: devieira73 on April 22, 2018, 07:50:55 AM
I just realized the other day that Dug Pinnick would probably be a really good fit for this band if Sheehan ever stepped out. He could offer alot vocal wise, and he and Soto even have similar vocal tones. Plus his bass playing is equally out of this world.
I don’t know if you made this comment because of Billy’s age and maybe a lot of us don’t know that, but Dug will be 68 in September!  :omg: (and he’s still rocking very much IMO!)
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: KevShmev on April 22, 2018, 01:44:08 PM
I don't care if the album was recorded in 1 week or even one day.....I love it and would put it up against any of the post Portnoy DT albums with no issue.

And it would lose royally to all three records in each match-up.  :coolio
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Stadler on April 22, 2018, 08:41:13 PM
I just realized the other day that Dug Pinnick would probably be a really good fit for this band if Sheehan ever stepped out. He could offer alot vocal wise, and he and Soto even have similar vocal tones. Plus his bass playing is equally out of this world.
I don’t know if you made this comment because of Billy’s age and maybe a lot of us don’t know that, but Dug will be 68 in September!  :omg: (and he’s still rocking very much IMO!)

No, no, in the name of all that is holy, NO.  Please, no.  His vocals ruined Lines In The Sand for me; Sons of Apollo is teetering on the edge as it is, to have those style vocals in there now would be the death knell for me and that band.   
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Samsara on April 23, 2018, 08:09:10 AM
Whatever. Doug Pinnick's vocals are great. Very unique, and I loved what he did on Lines in the Sand.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bosk1 on April 23, 2018, 08:22:53 AM
Whatever. Doug Pinnick's vocals are great. Very unique, and I loved what he did on Lines in the Sand.

Exactly.  This is exactly why one should never take a Kiss fan seriously when it comes to opinions on what is and is not good music.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: gmillerdrake on April 23, 2018, 08:36:39 AM
I went to the show last night in St. Louis. Took my two sons as my oldest REALLY wanted to see MP and the other wanted to see another concert. They had a blast and at one point they were both down right up on the stage just digging it......it was cool to see as a parent. My oldest's night was made when MP saw him throwing up the 'devil horns' during 'Sign of the Times' and he pointed his drum stick directly at him in acknowledgement.

I'm gonna offer a fair opinion on this show. It's no secret that DS and MP tainted my initial opinion of the release due to their juvenile behavior leading to the release. They were tacky and immature and it soured me big time on the album. So much so that I didn't give it a fair shake when it was first released. It wasn't until months later that I spun it again and found a couple of the songs enjoyable and took the album for what it was and not what DS and MP tried and lied like hell to convince everyone what it would be. That being said...

The stars of the show are JSS and Bumblefoot. JSS sounds pretty frickin' awesome live and he improved every song with his live performance. It resembles what was recorded for the album but it's so much more powerful and energetic. The dude ran the show and was engaged with the crowd....interacting....just a real solid 'front man'. I was really impressed with him and hope that 'if' they do another album they unleash him to sing like he did at this show and not water him down like they did on the album.

Bumblefoot was a blast to watch. He was all over the stage making sure everyone got an up close shot of him jamming....and the venue they played in St. Louis really allows you to get up close. I honestly had no idea that he was that talented of a player....but he really is. And he has a really good voice as well. He filled the night with good back ground vocals.

Billy on Bass amazes me that he's 68 and playing like he does. It's pretty incredible actually. To tour and keep that pace at his age. Has to be so draining for a 30 year old, much less someone nearing 70! He had a cool solo and all in all put on a great 'show' himself. Again, I can't believe the dude is that old and still performing like he does.

MP was MP. He's a showman and incredible drummer. I think these songs don't particularly highlight his abilities but he is crisp and on point and like the others I've mentioned thus far.....a good showman. He did take a couple holidays on the double bass parts in 'God of the Sun' and 'Sign of the Times' which annoys the hell out of me personally when he does that and he doesn't have to play the songs note for note but when you're expecting the double bass to power those parts and it's just the single kick drum it does change the song. But that's a nit pic.

DS. Easily the most forgettable member of the band and boring part of the show. I do not find his playing all that inspiring or inspired. If I had to sum his contribution up in one word it'd be 'boring'. All the other guys....including a 70 year old man.....were REALLY in to it and selling that experience and DS was what looked to me going through the motions. His 'sound' is not that alluring in the first place then couple that with his ho hum approach and like I said.....he's easy to forget being that his band mates all brought their game faces and he looked like he wasn't expecting to start.

Anyway....if you like this band I'd definitely say go see them. I am/was impartial to them and only went because my kiddos wanted to see MP play live. That being said.....JSS and Bumblefoot really impressed me and made me glad I went because they alone may have swung my opinion of the band in general and actually make me look forward to a second album from them....just to see what a touring cycle of bonding and getting to 'learn' each others abilities more and perhaps more time in the studio to craft and album could lead those guys to produce.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Kwyjibo on April 23, 2018, 08:36:47 AM
Whatever. Doug Pinnick's vocals are great. Very unique, and I loved what he did on Lines in the Sand.

Yep, this.

And JSS's singing on Psychotic Symphony isn't that far from Doug Pinnick's singing imo.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Stadler on April 23, 2018, 08:42:19 AM
Whatever. Doug Pinnick's vocals are great. Very unique, and I loved what he did on Lines in the Sand.

Exactly.  This is exactly why one should never take a Kiss fan seriously when it comes to opinions on what is and is not good music.

I'd take Gene Simmons singing over that wounded cat wail that was the backing vocals on "Lines In The Sand".

(In all seriousness, it has nothing to do with any of this; as a general rule I like more traditional, legato type singing, like Sting, Freddie Mercury and Elton John.   I'm not a fan at all of that quasi, pseudo "soulful" melismatic singing.    Compare Glenn Hughes in Deep Purple (which I can't stand) and his singing on, say, Seventh Star by Sabbath or in Black Country Communion, which I love very much).   
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Stadler on April 23, 2018, 08:46:51 AM
Whatever. Doug Pinnick's vocals are great. Very unique, and I loved what he did on Lines in the Sand.

Yep, this.

And JSS's singing on Psychotic Symphony isn't that far from Doug Pinnick's singing imo.

And the aspect of Sons that I've been most critical of?    JSS's singing.    I wish they went in a more "Freddie Mercury"/"Steve Perry" avenue than the monochromatic, generic sort of vocals that JSS delivered on the record.  And I know he could have done it, he's done it before.    I just think that the entire album is so same-y; all the instruments -  the guitars, the bass (the way Billy plays), the keys, the vocals - are all competing in the same frequency range and  it makes the record - for me - very unremarkable.   

Compare this to, say, The Who or Led Zeppelin circa 1972.   The Who:  you had Entwhistle playing a deep, rumble-y, but still melodic bass.  You have Daltrey up over the top with the higher register, trebly vocal.   You have Townsend in the middle with a more mid-range, heavily distorted guitar.   And the icing on the cake was Townsend's backing vocals and the chocolate jimmies that were the synthesizers they used to flavor the mix.   
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on April 23, 2018, 08:47:32 AM
Nice to see you had a good time gmiller, as well as your sons.  I'm planning on catching them May 18th.  Should be a fun show.  I've spun the album recently after a long time of not listening and it may have been slightly more enjoyable.  I still really like God of the Sun.  Great song. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: The Walrus on April 23, 2018, 08:49:05 AM
I like Pinnick. I don't like Soto. That's my contribution.  :lol
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: gmillerdrake on April 23, 2018, 09:01:53 AM
Nice to see you had a good time gmiller, as well as your sons.  I'm planning on catching them May 18th.  Should be a fun show.  I've spun the album recently after a long time of not listening and it may have been slightly more enjoyable.  I still really like God of the Sun.  Great song.

They came out and punched us in the fact with God of the Sun followed by Sign of the Times. Really good back to back songs that just set the pace. I was pleasantly surprised by the show but like I said, if not for the desire of my sons to go see MP I'd not have gone. Glad I did....it was a good show.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Cirone328 on April 23, 2018, 09:10:21 AM
Just like the song says, "Never Enough".
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: MirrorMask on April 25, 2018, 07:53:25 AM
Wanna take a tour of their tourbus?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y4ZyJqxKcj0
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ChuckSteak on April 25, 2018, 08:24:18 AM
So luxurious.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on April 25, 2018, 08:29:13 AM
Ron continues to impress me  :lol

Also surprised they had so much booze, although they admit half the band doesn't drink
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: goo-goo on April 25, 2018, 08:42:52 AM
Ron continues to impress me  :lol

Also surprised they had so much booze, although they admit half the band doesn't drink

Yeah. It's probably the crew members that do most of the drinking.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Samsara on April 25, 2018, 08:52:02 AM
Wanna take a tour of their tourbus?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y4ZyJqxKcj0

hahahaha. If you've seen one tour bus, you've seen em all. But the chemistry between those two is awesome. I may bring an onion to the show this week and leave it on stage.  :lol
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Ben_Jamin on April 25, 2018, 09:08:18 AM
That was pretty cool. Haha when they find the random Jack bottle "Whose is this ?".
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Tick on April 25, 2018, 10:51:35 AM
I just realized the other day that Dug Pinnick would probably be a really good fit for this band if Sheehan ever stepped out. He could offer alot vocal wise, and he and Soto even have similar vocal tones. Plus his bass playing is equally out of this world.
Dug is older than Billy is...
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Architeuthis on April 25, 2018, 11:59:12 AM
Anybody going to the Seattle show on the 30th?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Madman Shepherd on April 25, 2018, 01:50:29 PM
Looks like they're playing the same exact setlist as before.  Hmmmmm....
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: El Barto on April 25, 2018, 02:13:29 PM
Ron continues to impress me  :lol

Also surprised they had so much booze, although they admit half the band doesn't drink

Once you get locked into a serious drug collection, the tendency is to push it as far as you can.

And it doesn't hurt if you have a rider that gets you a bottle at every gig.

I'll be seeing them down here in a couple of weeks. No idea what to expect, but these five guys can't put on anything short of a good show.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Cool Chris on April 25, 2018, 02:52:10 PM
Looks like they're playing the same exact setlist as before.  Hmmmmm....

Did you expect they would pull some more rare tracks from their catalog?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: JayOctavarium on April 25, 2018, 03:10:45 PM
Looks like they're playing the same exact setlist as before.  Hmmmmm....

Did you expect they would pull some more rare tracks from their catalog?

DON'T LOOK PAST ME
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on April 25, 2018, 03:16:05 PM
Ron continues to impress me  :lol

Also surprised they had so much booze, although they admit half the band doesn't drink

Once you get locked into a serious drug collection, the tendency is to push it as far as you can.

And it doesn't hurt if you have a rider that gets you a bottle at every gig.

I'll be seeing them down here in a couple of weeks. No idea what to expect, but these five guys can't put on anything short of a good show.

I feel the same way, I'll see them mid may in NYC.  Don't love the album, but I expect a solid show when you consider the musicians.  Maybe I'll enjoy some of the other tracks I didn't love when I see it live.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: goo-goo on April 25, 2018, 03:18:31 PM
I might just go to see Felix Martin since I already saw SoA in Orlando.

Fuck me sideways: I'm on a business trip on the 7th.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Madman Shepherd on April 25, 2018, 04:00:50 PM
Looks like they're playing the same exact setlist as before.  Hmmmmm....

Did you expect they would pull some more rare tracks from their catalog?

Their as in their collective catalog, yes. They're playing about 30 minutes from the last place they played in my area. It was a decent show but only bringing out a couple new things would make me consider round 2. Seems odd considering how rabid people were about Dream Theater's varying setlists when they were often playing 5 or 6 hours away from the last date and the same market a year apart or whatever.  Now SoA is playing only a few months later a stone's throw from the last place and it doesn't look like they'll switch it up.

Of course, maybe theyll play Raising the Knife and I'll really regret not going.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: gzarruk on April 25, 2018, 04:05:12 PM
Looks like they're playing the same exact setlist as before.  Hmmmmm....

Did you expect they would pull some more rare tracks from their catalog?

Their as in their collective catalog, yes. They're playing about 30 minutes from the last place they played in my area. It was a decent show but only bringing out a couple new things would make me consider round 2. Seems odd considering how rabid people were about Dream Theater's varying setlists when they were often playing 5 or 6 hours away from the last date and the same market a year apart or whatever.  Now SoA is playing only a few months later a stone's throw from the last place and it doesn't look like they'll switch it up.

Of course, maybe theyll play Raising the Knife and I'll really regret not going.

I find it ironic that many people complain about DT not doing rotating setlits since Portnoy left, but none of MP's post DT projects have done that either. So, yes, you have a very valid point here.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Ben_Jamin on April 25, 2018, 04:17:14 PM
Looks like they're playing the same exact setlist as before.  Hmmmmm....

Did you expect they would pull some more rare tracks from their catalog?

Their as in their collective catalog, yes. They're playing about 30 minutes from the last place they played in my area. It was a decent show but only bringing out a couple new things would make me consider round 2. Seems odd considering how rabid people were about Dream Theater's varying setlists when they were often playing 5 or 6 hours away from the last date and the same market a year apart or whatever.  Now SoA is playing only a few months later a stone's throw from the last place and it doesn't look like they'll switch it up.

Of course, maybe theyll play Raising the Knife and I'll really regret not going.

I find it ironic that many people complain about DT not doing rotating setlits since Portnoy left, but none of MP's post DT projects have done that either. So, yes, you have a very valid point here.

Yet, those projects only have so many songs, and they're songs that aren't long either.

The only exception is Transatlantic, they have more songs that are longer in length. I guess you can count Flying Colors.

Did Winery Dogs play a headline set and what was the length?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bill1971 on April 25, 2018, 04:46:09 PM
Looks like they're playing the same exact setlist as before.  Hmmmmm....

Did you expect they would pull some more rare tracks from their catalog?

Their as in their collective catalog, yes. They're playing about 30 minutes from the last place they played in my area. It was a decent show but only bringing out a couple new things would make me consider round 2. Seems odd considering how rabid people were about Dream Theater's varying setlists when they were often playing 5 or 6 hours away from the last date and the same market a year apart or whatever.  Now SoA is playing only a few months later a stone's throw from the last place and it doesn't look like they'll switch it up.

Of course, maybe theyll play Raising the Knife and I'll really regret not going.

There are only so many ways you can shuffle 10 songs. DT had a pretty big catalog. Their 1st few tours I think the setlist was pretty static.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Schurftkut on April 25, 2018, 04:55:35 PM
Sherinian on a guitar does sound pretty cool: https://twitter.com/DerekSherinian/status/989265184567869440
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on April 25, 2018, 05:12:50 PM
Looks like they're playing the same exact setlist as before.  Hmmmmm....

Did you expect they would pull some more rare tracks from their catalog?

Their as in their collective catalog, yes. They're playing about 30 minutes from the last place they played in my area. It was a decent show but only bringing out a couple new things would make me consider round 2. Seems odd considering how rabid people were about Dream Theater's varying setlists when they were often playing 5 or 6 hours away from the last date and the same market a year apart or whatever.  Now SoA is playing only a few months later a stone's throw from the last place and it doesn't look like they'll switch it up.

Of course, maybe theyll play Raising the Knife and I'll really regret not going.

I think the first leg of the tour was really just a warm up, play together in small clubs for a short tour.  This tour is more extensive and bigger, so I think they are just bringing what they brought and practiced to the main tour now.  Would be cool to throw in different covers, but I can't say I was expecting them to change anything up for this.

Did Winery Dogs play a headline set and what was the length?

Yup, saw them during their last US headline tour.  I don't recall exactly the length, but at least 1.5 hours and they did 18 songs.  Didn't rotate songs at all that tour.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: gmillerdrake on April 25, 2018, 06:48:54 PM
I'll be seeing them down here in a couple of weeks. No idea what to expect, but these five guys can't put on anything short of a good show.


I feel the same way, I'll see them mid may in NYC.  Don't love the album, but I expect a solid show when you consider the musicians.  Maybe I'll enjoy some of the other tracks I didn't love when I see it live.


I was a very 'warm' fan heading in to the show on last sunday. After giving the release another listen a few months after the fact I was more receptive to a couple of the songs. So, I was pleasantly surprised by the show on Sunday. They are pro's and certainly put on a 'show' and make it worth the $$$. JSS and Bumblefoot outshine the others by far.


Here's my opinion on the show I posted on a previous page:


I went to the show last night in St. Louis. Took my two sons as my oldest REALLY wanted to see MP and the other wanted to see another concert. They had a blast and at one point they were both down right up on the stage just digging it......it was cool to see as a parent. My oldest's night was made when MP saw him throwing up the 'devil horns' during 'Sign of the Times' and he pointed his drum stick directly at him in acknowledgement.

I'm gonna offer a fair opinion on this show. It's no secret that DS and MP tainted my initial opinion of the release due to their juvenile behavior leading to the release. They were tacky and immature and it soured me big time on the album. So much so that I didn't give it a fair shake when it was first released. It wasn't until months later that I spun it again and found a couple of the songs enjoyable and took the album for what it was and not what DS and MP tried and lied like hell to convince everyone what it would be. That being said...

The stars of the show are JSS and Bumblefoot. JSS sounds pretty frickin' awesome live and he improved every song with his live performance. It resembles what was recorded for the album but it's so much more powerful and energetic. The dude ran the show and was engaged with the crowd....interacting....just a real solid 'front man'. I was really impressed with him and hope that 'if' they do another album they unleash him to sing like he did at this show and not water him down like they did on the album.

Bumblefoot was a blast to watch. He was all over the stage making sure everyone got an up close shot of him jamming....and the venue they played in St. Louis really allows you to get up close. I honestly had no idea that he was that talented of a player....but he really is. And he has a really good voice as well. He filled the night with good back ground vocals.

Billy on Bass amazes me that he's 68 and playing like he does. It's pretty incredible actually. To tour and keep that pace at his age. Has to be so draining for a 30 year old, much less someone nearing 70! He had a cool solo and all in all put on a great 'show' himself. Again, I can't believe the dude is that old and still performing like he does.

MP was MP. He's a showman and incredible drummer. I think these songs don't particularly highlight his abilities but he is crisp and on point and like the others I've mentioned thus far.....a good showman. He did take a couple holidays on the double bass parts in 'God of the Sun' and 'Sign of the Times' which annoys the hell out of me personally when he does that and he doesn't have to play the songs note for note but when you're expecting the double bass to power those parts and it's just the single kick drum it does change the song. But that's a nit pic.

DS. Easily the most forgettable member of the band and boring part of the show. I do not find his playing all that inspiring or inspired. If I had to sum his contribution up in one word it'd be 'boring'. All the other guys....including a 70 year old man.....were REALLY in to it and selling that experience and DS was what looked to me going through the motions. His 'sound' is not that alluring in the first place then couple that with his ho hum approach and like I said.....he's easy to forget being that his band mates all brought their game faces and he looked like he wasn't expecting to start.

Anyway....if you like this band I'd definitely say go see them. I am/was impartial to them and only went because my kiddos wanted to see MP play live. That being said.....JSS and Bumblefoot really impressed me and made me glad I went because they alone may have swung my opinion of the band in general and actually make me look forward to a second album from them....just to see what a touring cycle of bonding and getting to 'learn' each others abilities more and perhaps more time in the studio to craft and album could lead those guys to produce.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on April 26, 2018, 07:24:19 AM
I was a very 'warm' fan heading in to the show on last sunday. After giving the release another listen a few months after the fact I was more receptive to a couple of the songs. So, I was pleasantly surprised by the show on Sunday. They are pro's and certainly put on a 'show' and make it worth the $$$. JSS and Bumblefoot outshine the others by far.

It's not even an expensive concert.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: rumborak on April 26, 2018, 08:26:43 AM
Wanna take a tour of their tourbus?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y4ZyJqxKcj0

I have exactly the same mini-guitar :lol
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: MirrorMask on April 26, 2018, 08:31:32 AM
Wanna take a tour of their tourbus?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y4ZyJqxKcj0

I have exactly the same mini-guitar :lol

But do you climb in your bed the same way Bumblefoot does?  ;D
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: gmillerdrake on April 26, 2018, 08:58:15 AM
I was a very 'warm' fan heading in to the show on last sunday. After giving the release another listen a few months after the fact I was more receptive to a couple of the songs. So, I was pleasantly surprised by the show on Sunday. They are pro's and certainly put on a 'show' and make it worth the $$$. JSS and Bumblefoot outshine the others by far.

It's not even an expensive concert.

Well, I took my two sons (+me) that was $35 a ticket through ticket master and then bought them both a concert T-shirt for $25 a pop. So, I dropped near $150.   :lol   
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on April 26, 2018, 09:04:07 AM
I was a very 'warm' fan heading in to the show on last sunday. After giving the release another listen a few months after the fact I was more receptive to a couple of the songs. So, I was pleasantly surprised by the show on Sunday. They are pro's and certainly put on a 'show' and make it worth the $$$. JSS and Bumblefoot outshine the others by far.

It's not even an expensive concert.

Well, I took my two sons (+me) that was $35 a ticket through ticket master and then bought them both a concert T-shirt for $25 a pop. So, I dropped near $150.   :lol

Well yea, I didn't include the booze I will purchase, just talking about the ticket, for myself.  :lol
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Samsara on April 26, 2018, 11:09:33 AM
Shirts are $25? Thanks for the info!
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bosk1 on April 26, 2018, 12:03:59 PM
That's actually not bad at all.  I mean, I still won't get one, but still.  :lol
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on April 26, 2018, 12:15:51 PM
I bought my first concert Tshirt last weekend in maybe 10 years  :lol and maybe 15 years if you don't count fake ones.  I thought at 25$ it was fair for the awesome show they put on.  Even though the money more directly supports the band than other purchases, paying more than 25 for a tshirt is just too much, especially cause I don't ever actually wear them.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: gmillerdrake on April 26, 2018, 12:49:21 PM
Shirts are $25? Thanks for the info!

Yeah....there was a $35 dollar one as well and then the hoodies, hats etc that were a bit more.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Samsara on April 26, 2018, 01:11:32 PM
That's actually not bad at all.  I mean, I still won't get one, but still.  :lol

I thought you were going to wear your custom "MIKE PORTNOY'S #1 FAN BOY" shirt? Have a change of heart, bosk?  :biggrin:
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bosk1 on April 26, 2018, 01:15:29 PM
That's actually not bad at all.  I mean, I still won't get one, but still.  :lol

I thought you were going to wear your custom "MIKE PORTNOY'S #1 FAN BOY" shirt? Have a change of heart, bosk?  :biggrin:

:lol  Yeah, I've actually conjured up imaginary scenarios in my mind where I'm having a conversation with Jeff or Ron or Billy by the bus, and either Mike or Derek walks up, and I look at them for a split second, and then ignore them and carry on my conversation as if they weren't there.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Samsara on April 26, 2018, 01:17:27 PM
That's actually not bad at all.  I mean, I still won't get one, but still.  :lol

I thought you were going to wear your custom "MIKE PORTNOY'S #1 FAN BOY" shirt? Have a change of heart, bosk?  :biggrin:

:lol  Yeah, I've actually conjured up imaginary scenarios in my mind where I'm having a conversation with Jeff or Ron or Billy by the bus, and either Mike or Derek walks up, and I look at them for a split second, and then ignore them and carry on my conversation as if they weren't there.

I'll bail you out. I have to get my FII stuff signed by those two, and tell them to play Anna Lee.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bosk1 on April 26, 2018, 01:22:32 PM
Yeah, if that scenario were to actually happen, I give you full permission to pretend you don't know me.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Samsara on April 26, 2018, 01:40:47 PM
Yeah, if that scenario were to actually happen, I give you full permission to pretend you don't know me.

I do that all the time, so no prob.  :lol ;)
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bosk1 on April 26, 2018, 01:45:17 PM
Likewise.  But maybe for different reasons.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Samsara on April 29, 2018, 01:56:31 AM
Back from seeing Sons of Apollo this weekend. I have to say, they surprised me. Not in the quality of the performance, as that was top-notch, as expected. It was that this really felt like a real BAND, and not a project. I just assumed, like many groups that come together with well established players from other acts, it was going to feel like "forced chemistry." I was happily wrong. Sons of Apollo genuinely has on-stage chemistry and feels like a true band. It was between all of them, but JSS and Bumblefoot in particular. Those guys are two peas in a pod. MP was having a blast too - didn't really talk much at all, but he didn't need to. You could see the joy on his face. Billy was Billy - had fun, played well, fit in, although he's starting to show his age a bit (no offense intended whatsoever, but you can tell he's from the generation before these guys). The one guy who I expected to be more into it was Derek. I think he was having issues with his tech, because a couple of times, he waved him away from the stage, and then after finishing a section, he jumped down, ran to the side, and was letting the dude know about it. I think it got him out of the flow of an otherwise great show (and Derek played excellent).

What was telling for me was that I went into the show just looking forward to hearing the DT tracks they were doing, as I love FII. I was hoping they sounded great, and the stuff on Sons' Psychotic Symphony, at least for me, was an entertaining set of songs and that would be it (I give the record about a 6.5/10 or so. It's OK, but doesn't blow me away). Well, not only did the band SLAY those two DT tunes, but the rest of the set turned me into a Sons of Apollo believer. It made me want to go listen to the album again - because the tunes came off really well live, and it clicked.

JSS was a big part of that. I felt he sang very reserved on the record, but live, my God, what a frontman. I have seen him multiple times with TSO, and once fronting Journey (in 2006). That latter time, he sang very well, but was trying to find his groove fronting that band. The two or three times I saw TSO, he wasn't reserved by choice, it was just the nature of the performance. Well, with Sons of Apollo, we got the true JSS. A TON of energy, all over the stage, singing his guts out, believing in every lyric he's singing. He doesn't have the range he once did, but it doesn't matter. The combo of him, with Bumblefoot's higher pitch harmonizing on top of him, was great. It gave the vocals on the Sons songs that extra bit of dynamics they needed.  I am not sure if JSS did this at other shows, but during the encore, with the cover song in it (I know it is a bit of a spoiler, but not revealing what it is), he even went out into the crowd and sang the beginning walking back up through the middle of the audience. Just a wonderful all around performance.

I admit I wasn't sold on JSS as the frontman for this band. I was wrong. He brings such an enthusiasm, and his voice and Bumble's mix so well together, it really makes the songs come alive.

If you're on the fence about going, do yourself a favor and buy a ticket. They played for almost two hours, and the combination of musicianship, great singing, and great energy are worth it. And who knows, if you were lukewarm on the Sons of Apollo record itself, the gig may just make you change your mind. It did for me.

p.s. About Bumblefoot -- that dude can shred, and he plays with such soul. This was my first time seeing him (I had seen the other guys in other bands previously), and I came away really impressed. A great showman and even greater player (not to mention, as I said earlier, a really nice voice).
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: MirrorMask on April 29, 2018, 03:23:01 AM
Sons of Apollo genuinely has on-stage chemistry and feels like a true band. It was between all of them, but JSS and Bumblefoot in particular. Those guys are two peas in a pod.

Well, maybe then it's no coincidence that they did that "life on the tourbus" video I posted a bit above.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Samsara on April 29, 2018, 11:43:20 AM
Here's some vids for those that like checking out the shows:

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLJI-MjWF9aD_PWzG9Szk6w3cLy7r_MkUl

Quality is OK. My phone is getting old.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Architeuthis on April 29, 2018, 11:53:39 AM
Samsara, thanks for the great review. I was kind of on the fence about going to the Seattle show tomorrow night (Monday), but after reading that I'm going for sure. Its a two hour drive along with a nice ferry ride across Puget Sound.. 😎 :tup
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bobs23 on April 29, 2018, 01:00:23 PM
Thanks for the vids. They have tightened up quite a bit. Now really looking forward to Thursday and Friday.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: DT2003 on April 29, 2018, 04:37:20 PM
For those that have been to shows, how well are they filling these venues?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: devieira73 on April 29, 2018, 06:18:22 PM
For those that have been to shows, how well are they filling these venues?
In São Paulo/Brazil I believe it was almost sold out. But this post made me feel a bit worried about the attendance at the USA shows:
https://www.facebook.com/SonsOfApollo1/posts/298998203967319
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: The Walrus on April 29, 2018, 06:26:04 PM
I see Mike has been on the defensive on his own facebook. Sheesh dude, you're embarrassing yourself, stop responding to facebook comments and bitching about bmouth
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Anguyen92 on April 29, 2018, 06:34:19 PM
For those that have been to shows, how well are they filling these venues?

Don't think the House of Blues show in Anaheim will have the greatest turnout.  The Groupon deal for $20.00 is still up and only 9 tickets has been bought.  The capacity is around 2,000 people and when I saw Halestorm and Breaking Benjamin in that same building last October, the place was packed in both shows and they were charging around $35.00-$45.00 plus fees in those shows, but those bands are modern superstars in our rock world today.

That stated, they are doing both Anaheim and LA in the same leg of the tour and sometimes, that may not be the greatest approach to do both major cities in SoCal in one tour leg and they may risk a bit of oversaturation.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: TAC on April 29, 2018, 06:38:39 PM
SOA wasn't on Groupon here, but this was!

https://www.groupon.com/deals/goldstar-scream-for-me-sarajevo
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bosk1 on April 29, 2018, 10:31:08 PM
SOA was on Groupon here until 2 days before the show.  But while it wasn't a sellout, it was pretty well attended.  I second Samsara's review.  It was a fantastic show.  I will post details later, but I echo his sentiments about it FAR exceeding expectations and being a great time.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: PepeLePew on April 30, 2018, 07:44:21 AM
Reading how much some of the guys here liked it I really want to go see them live now!
I just hope they are going to add some more shows in Germany later this year. I don't want to go to one of the big festivals...
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Fritzinger on April 30, 2018, 07:55:50 AM
Reading how much some of the guys here liked it I really want to go see them live now!
I just hope they are going to add some more shows in Germany later this year. I don't want to go to one of the big festivals...

Maybe we'll see each other in Leipzig? I thought "Hellraiser" was a festival at first.. turns out it's the name of a venue.

Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bosk1 on April 30, 2018, 08:46:46 AM
Saw Sons of Apollo this past Saturday night.  Fantastic show.  As a fun, Saturday night rock show, it doesn't get much better.  Granted, I am a fan of their album.  But even if I were just lukewarm on it, I would have loved this show.

I echo everything in Samsara's review.  He nailed it.  And let me also just say that, with no disrespect intended toward Dream Theater at all, Lines in the Sand has not been performed that well in a long, long, LONG time.  It may be the best live performance of the song I have ever personally witnessed.

If I were doing a full review of the show, it would be overwhelmingly positive.  So let me just focus on the couple of things that I did not like, just to change it up a bit.

-First, the instrumentals/solo spots.  I make it no secret that I generally don't care for instrumental songs as much as songs with vocals.  I tend to like songs with good instrumental passages.  But purely instrumental songs can be harder to relate to and like.  Couple that with the fact that I don't like Opus Maximus very much and don't feel it is a strong instrumental at all.  So, everybody got a solo spot.  Mike's was a fairly shot and sweet drum break that was part of a song (I forget which one now).  Its brevity and tastefulness actually served it well.  Ron did his Pink Panther thing.  That's kinda his thing, so I expected it.  But it also wasn't too long, and was fun and not too "out there."  Jeff's vocal solo spot with the Save Me cover was interesting and different, and the crowd participation part kept us interested.  But after three pretty good solo spots, the show really did NOT need Derek and Billy solo spots.  And both of them were VERY long and drawn out.  I completely lost interest and just wished they would be over.  By the time they finally got to Opus Maximus late in the set, I was done with instrumental stuff and just wanted the next song.  It was cool that the band tried to give us our money's worth by playing a long set.  But then again, it did feel like it was packed with some filler that I not only could do without, but actively wished they had skipped over.

-Jeff's stage banter was juvenile and profanity laden EVERY. SINGLE. TIME he opened his mouth.  It was disappointing to hear him talk with the vocabulary of a 12-year old trying to sound cool and tough.  I mean, he was obviously trying to hype up the crowd.  And overall, he was successful.  But those of us who may be a bit more discerning--or at least, just speaking for this particular fan--I came away severely disappointed with how he presented himself as a front man in that regard. 

Those two gripes aside, I again want to come back to what I said initially.  This was a fantastic show, and I would HIGHLY recommend seeing these guys given the opportunity.  It was one of the most fun shows I have been to in a long time, and the band was super tight and played at a high level.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Architeuthis on April 30, 2018, 10:14:22 AM
Good review Bosk1.  I see what you are saying about the stage banter. I don't know why so many Rock musicians feel the need to use profanity on stage. I guess it makes them feel cool or tough in some junior high school rebel kind of way..  That's what I love about bands like Rush, they have class and keep their show clean for all ages to enjoy, on the most part.  Even more-so with Boston, I've seen them live several times and there were never any F-bombs or anything like that...Same with Yes. 
 I always appreciate bands that present themselves in a good way.  I just saw Nightwish 3 weeks ago, and the kept clean and classy and rocked like there was no tomorrow!  :tup :metal
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Samsara on April 30, 2018, 10:35:01 AM
Yeah, I noticed the heavy use of foul language as well. It didn't detract from the show for me, but I could have done without half of that. Dropping a few words here and there is expected in the excitement and adrenaline of the show. But JSS was a little overboard.

Another thing I wanted to add was the JSS/Bumblefoot spot where they covered Queen was really good. Nice to hear JSS' clean voice. Sounded amazing.

I typically echo bosk1 regarding solo spots -- no need for em, unless they were like JSS', where he and Bumble did something cool together. But a bass solo? Really? Billy is awesome, but c'mon. They could have easily removed that and played another tune. But that's a minor complaint. I really had a great time.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: The Walrus on April 30, 2018, 10:39:35 AM
Just how bad was the profanity? If I'm at a rock/metal show I am never surprised to hear a lot of profanity on stage...
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bosk1 on April 30, 2018, 10:42:23 AM
I typically echo bosk1 regarding solo spots -- no need for em, unless they were like JSS', where he and Bumble did something cool together. But a bass solo? Really? Billy is awesome, but c'mon. They could have easily removed that and played another tune.

Yeah.  For Derek and Billy, they should have taken a cue from Mike and just done like a little 30 second solo spot as an intro into a song or something instead of the extended solo spots.  To take Billy's for example, with a player of his caliber, I get having a little spot for him to showcase himself.  But at the end of the day, it's still a bass solo, and still wasn't all that interesting after the first 30 seconds.  Just give him a short intro spot and call it a day.

Just how bad was the profanity? If I'm at a rock/metal show I am never surprised to hear a lot of profanity on stage...

Every time he talked, no matter what he was saying, it was like every other sentence HAD TO have an f-bomb.  I don't expect there NOT to be profanity at a concert.  I mean, I wish every musician I would go see was more articulate and mature than that.  But I don't expect it.  But it was MUCH more than the small handful I would have expected.

Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: pcs90 on April 30, 2018, 10:56:29 AM
Glad people are enjoying the live shows! It seems that the songs translate much better live than on the album.

As far as solo spots go, I like them if and only if they are actually interesting. I love instrumentals, whether composed or improvised, but some musicians have a tough time with solo spots because  all they do is shred and there's nothing of substance. This was the case with many solos on the album as well, particularly Derek's.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: DTA on April 30, 2018, 02:50:28 PM

Every time he talked, no matter what he was saying, it was like every other sentence HAD TO have an f-bomb.  I don't expect there NOT to be profanity at a concert.  I mean, I wish every musician I would go see was more articulate and mature than that.  But I don't expect it.  But it was MUCH more than the small handful I would have expected.

That really bothers me too. I remember an old Transatlantic DVD where Mike Portnoy grabs the mic and says something like "it's all fucking epics tonight" and I just cringe so hard.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: DT2003 on April 30, 2018, 07:38:48 PM
I get turned off too when there is a lot of cursing just for the sake of cursing during the show.

A bit off topic, but I recently bought Metallica’s Live Shit: Binge and Purge... I used to listen to this a lot when it first came out, but it had been several years since I listened. It was strange hearing how mich James cursed, especially given that in more recent shows he barely curses at all.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Fritzinger on May 01, 2018, 02:26:51 AM
I get turned off too when there is a lot of cursing just for the sake of cursing during the show.

A bit off topic, but I recently bought Metallica’s Live Shit: Binge and Purge... I used to listen to this a lot when it first came out, but it had been several years since I listened. It was strange hearing how mich James cursed, especially given that in more recent shows he barely curses at all.

Well, he's a 55 year old man now.

Of course, JSS is only 2 years younger, but that makes cursing just for the sake of it appear even more childish. If he was a 27 y/o dude who just got his first gig in a cool band and can't handle his own excitement, I'd probably buy it to some extend. But he's supposed to be a professional, and a professional should be able to express himself properly.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: MirrorMask on May 01, 2018, 03:11:09 AM
There's nothing wrong with any little cursing here and there, especially to the ears of a non native speaker to which the words sound like embellishment and not much more, but I agree than when it's done over and over and over, it loses its "value" and becomes corny. Even Bruce Dickinson I guess sometimes says "Scream for me" and then louder "Scream for me, I can't f'kin' hear you", stuffl ike that is ok, but replacing punctuation with curse words is silly.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Architeuthis on May 01, 2018, 06:14:21 AM
I just got home from the Seattle show, and they did not disappoint. All I can say right now is WOW!!! I am so glad I went.. I'll post a more detailed review later, but for now, I gotta catch up on some rest..
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: IDontNotDoThings on May 01, 2018, 06:19:21 AM
There's nothing wrong with any little cursing here and there, especially to the ears of a non native speaker to which the words sound like embellishment and not much more, but I agree than when it's done over and over and over, it loses its "value" and becomes corny. Even Bruce Dickinson I guess sometimes says "Scream for me" and then louder "Scream for me, I can't f'kin' hear you", stuffl ike that is ok, but replacing punctuation with curse words is silly.

inb4 "cut this shit off from me" from their performances of One  :lol
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Samsara on May 01, 2018, 07:56:50 AM
I just got home from the Seattle show, and they did not disappoint. All I can say right now is WOW!!! I am so glad I went.. I'll post a more detailed review later, but for now, I gotta catch up on some rest..

Cool. Glad you decided to go!
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: MirrorMask on May 01, 2018, 08:45:44 AM
There's nothing wrong with any little cursing here and there, especially to the ears of a non native speaker to which the words sound like embellishment and not much more, but I agree than when it's done over and over and over, it loses its "value" and becomes corny. Even Bruce Dickinson I guess sometimes says "Scream for me" and then louder "Scream for me, I can't f'kin' hear you", stuffl ike that is ok, but replacing punctuation with curse words is silly.

inb4 "cut this shit off from me" from their performances of One  :lol

See, that works, it actually adds more anger to the desperate situation of the mutilated soldier, it's one of those things that pump you up more live. It has to be dosed here and there though.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Destiny Of Chaos on May 01, 2018, 09:24:39 AM
Loving the positive gig reviews.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Stadler on May 01, 2018, 10:18:14 AM
I get turned off too when there is a lot of cursing just for the sake of cursing during the show.

A bit off topic, but I recently bought Metallica’s Live Shit: Binge and Purge... I used to listen to this a lot when it first came out, but it had been several years since I listened. It was strange hearing how mich James cursed, especially given that in more recent shows he barely curses at all.

Well, he's a 55 year old man now.

Of course, JSS is only 2 years younger, but that makes cursing just for the sake of it appear even more childish. If he was a 27 y/o dude who just got his first gig in a cool band and can't handle his own excitement, I'd probably buy it to some extend. But he's supposed to be a professional, and a professional should be able to express himself properly.

It's not a hard and fast rule, but generally speaking, when Paul Stanley is in makeup he doesn't swear much.  When Paul was out of makeup, he swore like a truck driver, and as much of a Kiss fan as I am, it really made me uncomfortable.   I do swear on occasion, but to me, as a general rule I feel like profanity is only the lack of better words to use.   Nothing bugs me more than those reality shows where every third word is bleeped and these idiots think they're some kind of bad-ass because they "don't care".  Please.  You're a meathead. 

My two cents.   

I think from the reviews, though, I'm going to go see them in a couple weeks.  Before this I was on the fence.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Ben_Jamin on May 01, 2018, 10:30:34 AM
I find it funny the only thing to complain about is cursing.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Cool Chris on May 01, 2018, 10:51:15 AM
I find it funny the only other thing people seem to complain about is Derek's playing, solo spots. and stage presence.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bosk1 on May 01, 2018, 10:57:22 AM
I find it funny the only other thing people seem to complain about is Derek's playing, solo spots. and stage presence.

???  Why?

(and I don't think people complained about Derek's playing or stage presence, did they?)
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Cool Chris on May 01, 2018, 11:43:10 AM
Complain is probably the wrong word, and in looking back I misread Samsara's thoughts on Derek. But I swear I read at least one person say Derek seemed the least "in to" the performance. Maybe it was elsewhere.

So the general consensus from what I have read here seems to be "Ron is amazing and the standout member of the band, JSS is great, Mike was typical Mike (meaning great), Billy was fine on the bass, and oh yeah Derek played the keys." Which would be fine, except the band member least lauded is the one who has been the most vocal about the band's awesomeness.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: The Walrus on May 01, 2018, 11:44:12 AM
Derek was probably into it. He's just so busy with his "serious face" trying to show just how into it he really is!  :lol
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Samsara on May 01, 2018, 11:52:09 AM
Complain is probably the wrong word, and in looking back I misread Samsara's thoughts on Derek. But I swear I read at least one person say Derek seemed the least "in to" the performance. Maybe it was elsewhere.


I think you missed the rest of my commentary on Derek. I said that he wasn't as into the performance as the others were to my eyes, likely because he was having issues with his tech, who Derek waved away from the stage multiple times, and at least once, jumped off stage to head side-stage and have an animated conversation with the guy. Apparently not everything was right, and Derek was very obviously miffed about it.

That's the first time I ever saw Derek be detached somewhat from the show, probably because he was a little frustrated and had trouble getting back in the groove. The two other times I saw him (both with DT in the 1990s) he was fully into things.

But despite that, Derek played great, and I enjoyed it. I love Derek's music, so there's no hate here. It was just an observation that there were some technical glitches that got Derek a little annoyed, and I noticed him become a bit detached, likely because of it.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Architeuthis on May 01, 2018, 12:47:13 PM
I noticed at the Seattle show last night, that the foul language was toned down. Probably due to the fact that a 7 year old little girl was up front with her dad. She was wearing a small red pair of red horns on her head and really into the show. JSS took notice and said that it was too precious and invited her on stage. He let her talk into the microphone and she said she was having so much fun!  So I thought that was a really cool thing for Jeff to do, that little girl and her father will never forget that.
 I was really impressed with JSS as a frontman, and his vocals are awesome!  Bumblefoot really sounded great with the high harmonies and his guitar playing is out of this world good. He radiates a good vibe from the stage and I can tell he's probably a really good soul. I loved the sounds he gets on the fretless guitar too.
   Mike Portnoy was amazing and seemed to be really happy with this band, and his drum sound was the best I've heard.
 Billy Sheehan is a real treat to see live, and I'm so glad he's in this band. Hope he remains in SOA for the long haul.
  As someone said earlier, Derek sounded amazing.  He really has some great organic sounds and really is a powerhouse live. So glad he's in this band!
 All in all, this was one of the best and most fun concerts I've ever seen and I really hope they make a DVD release from this tour. I'll be the first to buy it!  I also hope they stay together and make several albums with this line-up..   :metal
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: MirrorMask on May 01, 2018, 12:48:55 PM
All in all, this was one of the best and most fun concerts I've ever seen and I really hope they make a DVD release from this tour.

They will, in Bulgaria (or something), playing with an orchestra and with a second set of cover songs.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Architeuthis on May 01, 2018, 12:57:23 PM
Well that's good news! I'd prefer it without an orchestra though..  :facepalm:
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bosk1 on May 01, 2018, 01:15:22 PM
Yeah, I'm really looking forward to the next album as well, now that they will have had time to gell together as a band and develop a lot of chemistry. 

It looks like they've got some pretty solid festival bookings in Europe over the summer, so that should get them some good exposure.  Too bad they haven't gotten on any in the U.S.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Samsara on May 01, 2018, 01:58:06 PM
All in all, this was one of the best and most fun concerts I've ever seen and I really hope they make a DVD release from this tour.

They will, in Bulgaria (or something), playing with an orchestra and with a second set of cover songs.

I missed that entirely. Very cool. I'll be buying it for sure!
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bosk1 on May 01, 2018, 02:00:12 PM
All in all, this was one of the best and most fun concerts I've ever seen and I really hope they make a DVD release from this tour.

They will, in Bulgaria (or something), playing with an orchestra and with a second set of cover songs.

I missed that entirely. Very cool. I'll be buying it for sure!

He was being sarcastic.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Samsara on May 01, 2018, 02:18:56 PM
 :facepalm: :loser: :rollin
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: MirrorMask on May 01, 2018, 02:31:35 PM
How come sarcastic? they're actually going to do it!

https://bravewords.com/news/sons-of-apollo-september-2018-bulgaria-show-with-plovdiv-psychotic-symphony-to-be-filmed-for-dvd-release
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Architeuthis on May 01, 2018, 02:36:27 PM
Well that's awesome!  I hope it will be a great show filmed at the Roman Amphitheatre..
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bosk1 on May 01, 2018, 02:50:04 PM
How come sarcastic? they're actually going to do it!

https://bravewords.com/news/sons-of-apollo-september-2018-bulgaria-show-with-plovdiv-psychotic-symphony-to-be-filmed-for-dvd-release

Oh, really?  :rollin  I thought you were messing around because that is such a "Mike Portnoy" kind of show to do.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Samsara on May 01, 2018, 03:29:36 PM
How come sarcastic? they're actually going to do it!

https://bravewords.com/news/sons-of-apollo-september-2018-bulgaria-show-with-plovdiv-psychotic-symphony-to-be-filmed-for-dvd-release

Oh, really?  :rollin  I thought you were messing around because that is such a "Mike Portnoy" kind of show to do.

Now you're the  :loser:  bosk!!!!!

And I guess I'm in the same boat believing you.  :lol

Glad to hear the DVD is going to happen though.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: lucasembarbosa on May 01, 2018, 04:37:29 PM
Curiously, the new Devin Townsend Project DVD soon to be released, was recorded at this same roman theater, on September 22th 2017. Exactly one year before!
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Adami on May 01, 2018, 04:40:30 PM
Curiously, the new Devin Townsend Project DVD soon to be released, was recorded at this same roman theater, on September 22th 2017. Exactly one year before!

Isn’t it also with an orchestra?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: lucasembarbosa on May 01, 2018, 04:42:31 PM
Curiously, the new Devin Townsend Project DVD soon to be released, was recorded at this same roman theater, on September 22th 2017. Exactly one year before!

Isn’t it also with an orchestra?

Yep  :biggrin:
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: pg1067 on May 01, 2018, 04:48:11 PM
How come sarcastic? they're actually going to do it!

https://bravewords.com/news/sons-of-apollo-september-2018-bulgaria-show-with-plovdiv-psychotic-symphony-to-be-filmed-for-dvd-release

So...what exactly is "the Plovdiv Psychotic Symphony"?  And does anyone else think performing with a "symphony" (or an orchestra or a symphony orchestra) is more than a little ambitious for a more-or-less brand new band that can't even sell out relatively small clubs and is using Groupon to increase attendance?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Architeuthis on May 01, 2018, 05:23:12 PM
I think they will gain popularity in time, It's just a matter of getting the name out there. The band is loaded with musicians that have alot of clout and know the business. I think by touring it will spark some interest because their live act is phenominal!  After seeing them in Seattle last night, I will never miss any of their shows when they come back around and I'll drag my friends with me.
 They need to get a good promoter and get some airplay on a song or two. That would definitively increase attendance at their shows by at least two-fold..
 I just hope this band gains momentum because they have something special. :metal
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on May 01, 2018, 05:54:20 PM
How come sarcastic? they're actually going to do it!

https://bravewords.com/news/sons-of-apollo-september-2018-bulgaria-show-with-plovdiv-psychotic-symphony-to-be-filmed-for-dvd-release

So...what exactly is "the Plovdiv Psychotic Symphony"?  And does anyone else think performing with a "symphony" (or an orchestra or a symphony orchestra) is more than a little ambitious for a more-or-less brand new band that can't even sell out relatively small clubs and is using Groupon to increase attendance?

Maximizing what they can get out of this band before they return to other bands.  Not dumping on them, just honestly how it feels.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ProfessorPeart on May 01, 2018, 07:11:24 PM
Kataonia also did a live version of The Great Cold Distance in it's entirety at that venue with the same orchestra. Very good live album.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Stadler on May 01, 2018, 08:11:41 PM
Curiously, the new Devin Townsend Project DVD soon to be released, was recorded at this same roman theater, on September 22th 2017. Exactly one year before!

Isn’t it also with an orchestra?

Asia did the same deal a couple five years ago.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: PepeLePew on May 01, 2018, 11:54:07 PM
Reading how much some of the guys here liked it I really want to go see them live now!
I just hope they are going to add some more shows in Germany later this year. I don't want to go to one of the big festivals...

Maybe we'll see each other in Leipzig? I thought "Hellraiser" was a festival at first.. turns out it's the name of a venue.

Thanks for the hint, that is very interesting! Considering they play a lot of festivals in Europe and given the name "Hellraiser" I was absolutely convinced it must be one of those festivals, too... Didn't even bother looking it up.
Since the date is on a work day and Leipzig is not exactly close to where I live (about 400 km away) I have to see if I can "bend my working schedule around it", but I will definitely try to make it happen!
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: MirrorMask on May 02, 2018, 01:09:31 AM
How come sarcastic? they're actually going to do it!

https://bravewords.com/news/sons-of-apollo-september-2018-bulgaria-show-with-plovdiv-psychotic-symphony-to-be-filmed-for-dvd-release

Oh, really?  :rollin  I thought you were messing around because that is such a "Mike Portnoy" kind of show to do.

Now this is hilarous  ;D a band announces for real a special kind of show, and it passes as a joke because of how flamboyant the show is  :biggrin:
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Fritzinger on May 02, 2018, 08:34:32 AM
Reading how much some of the guys here liked it I really want to go see them live now!
I just hope they are going to add some more shows in Germany later this year. I don't want to go to one of the big festivals...

Maybe we'll see each other in Leipzig? I thought "Hellraiser" was a festival at first.. turns out it's the name of a venue.

Thanks for the hint, that is very interesting! Considering they play a lot of festivals in Europe and given the name "Hellraiser" I was absolutely convinced it must be one of those festivals, too... Didn't even bother looking it up.
Since the date is on a work day and Leipzig is not exactly close to where I live (about 400 km away) I have to see if I can "bend my working schedule around it", but I will definitely try to make it happen!

I'm from Dresden but study near Vienna. My last exam is the 25th of June, and I'm back home the day after that. It's only an hour drive for me, so I can't miss this :D
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: The Walrus on May 02, 2018, 11:31:58 AM
Sons are replacing James at progpower. Yawn. More bar time for me
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Nick on May 02, 2018, 11:34:58 AM
While I would have hoped for a different headliner, but I have a true appreciation for Glenn's troll level on this one.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Evermind on May 02, 2018, 11:38:18 AM
Wow. :lol This whole ProgPower thing is entertaining to watch.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Samsara on May 02, 2018, 11:44:29 AM
Sons are replacing James at progpower. Yawn. More bar time for me

Seriously??!

 :rollin

Honestly, they put on a great show, so it will be fun. But man, as Nick said, the troll level is pretty incredible on this.  :lol
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: mikeyd23 on May 02, 2018, 11:46:01 AM
Wow, that makes an awkward situation even more awkward.  :lol
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: The Walrus on May 02, 2018, 11:46:26 AM
I'm sure Mike and Derek take some satisfaction given the context

At least they're headlining so I can see the other bands then fuck off to do something else

The lineup is pretty bad now
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on May 02, 2018, 11:48:56 AM
While I would have hoped for a different headliner, I have a true appreciation for Glen's troll level on this one.

WOW  :rollin talk about drama, this is fantastic
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Ben_Jamin on May 02, 2018, 12:14:02 PM
While I would have hoped for a different headliner, I have a true appreciation for Glen's troll level on this one.

WOW  :rollin talk about drama, this is fantastic

Didn't know Glenn was that upset. What better way to get back at JLB than to bring in MPs band.

Now the DT vs. MP is refueled.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Mindflux on May 02, 2018, 12:37:45 PM
I'm sure Mike and Derek take some satisfaction given the context

At least they're headlining so I can see the other bands then fuck off to do something else

The lineup is pretty bad now

I wouldn't put it past Mike to have gone out of his way to make this happen just to give JLB/DT another black eye at this point.  I love the dude but he's got a sinister side to him even though he tries to play the innocent card.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Anguyen92 on May 02, 2018, 12:43:46 PM
Well, what else can the promoter do?  Not contact SOA and try to test the waters if they are interested on a relatively short notice?  Of course, MP will take advantage of this moment if the promoter is willing to play ball.  Nothing malicious about that and remember this, it's JLB was the one that dropped out after months of promoting that he was the headliner.  That's even a worst thing to do than any intent MP has.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Ben_Jamin on May 02, 2018, 12:44:33 PM
I'm sure Mike and Derek take some satisfaction given the context

At least they're headlining so I can see the other bands then fuck off to do something else

The lineup is pretty bad now

I wouldn't put it past Mike to have gone out of his way to make this happen just to give JLB/DT another black eye at this point.  I love the dude but he's got a sinister side to him even though he tries to play the innocent card.

Basically he wanted to be the hero and save the day...FOR PROG.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on May 02, 2018, 12:45:50 PM
Well, what else can the promoter do?  Not contact SOA and try to test the waters if they are interested on a relatively short notice?  Of course, MP will take advantage of this moment if the promoter is willing to play ball.  Nothing malicious about that and remember this, it's JLB was the one that dropped out after months of promoting that he was the headliner.  That's even a worst thing to do than any intent MP has.

Nothing malicious on PP's part, great call actually when you think about it.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bosk1 on May 02, 2018, 12:46:04 PM
Well, what else can the promoter do?  Not contact SOA and try to test the waters if they are interested on a relatively short notice?  Of course, MP will take advantage of this moment if the promoter is willing to play ball.
I don't think anybody is finding fault with the decision.  It appears to solve everybody's problems.  Whatever the issues with the JLB band, they aren't playing, which is what they wanted.  The promoter has a headliner, which is what he wanted.  SOA had another festival gig, even if it is a small one, which is the type of thing they are looking for.  Everybody is happy, right?  What's the problem?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bosk1 on May 02, 2018, 12:46:24 PM
I'm sure Mike and Derek take some satisfaction given the context

At least they're headlining so I can see the other bands then fuck off to do something else

The lineup is pretty bad now

I wouldn't put it past Mike to have gone out of his way to make this happen just to give JLB/DT another black eye at this point.  I love the dude but he's got a sinister side to him even though he tries to play the innocent card.

Basically he wanted to be the hero and save the day...FOR PROG.

And, you know this...how?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Anguyen92 on May 02, 2018, 12:48:25 PM
There's no problem at all.  I don't have any issues.  I'm just questioning Mindflux's post that MP's intention to seize the moment in this spot is deemed "sinister" which I don't find.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Ben_Jamin on May 02, 2018, 12:55:24 PM
I'm sure Mike and Derek take some satisfaction given the context

At least they're headlining so I can see the other bands then fuck off to do something else

The lineup is pretty bad now

I wouldn't put it past Mike to have gone out of his way to make this happen just to give JLB/DT another black eye at this point.  I love the dude but he's got a sinister side to him even though he tries to play the innocent card.

Basically he wanted to be the hero and save the day...FOR PROG.

And, you know this...how?

I should've put that in green.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Mindflux on May 02, 2018, 12:58:06 PM
There's no problem at all.  I don't have any issues.  I'm just questioning Mindflux's post that MP's intention to seize the moment in this spot is deemed "sinister" which I don't find.

Because the dude does lots of stuff to get people riled up (intentionally or otherwise) ? His whole twitter account is littered people getting riled up and then claiming he was 'misunderstood'.


Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Anguyen92 on May 02, 2018, 12:59:13 PM
Ok, but what about in this case?  I see nothing wrong with MP trying to get a festival slot for his band after one guy pulled out and it just so happens to be JLB.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Mindflux on May 02, 2018, 12:59:33 PM
Well, what else can the promoter do?  Not contact SOA and try to test the waters if they are interested on a relatively short notice?  Of course, MP will take advantage of this moment if the promoter is willing to play ball.  Nothing malicious about that and remember this, it's JLB was the one that dropped out after months of promoting that he was the headliner.  That's even a worst thing to do than any intent MP has.

Yeah but if MP can just swoop in and steal the spot.. I'm sure it at least crossed his mind how this would look to JLB/DT fans. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Mindflux on May 02, 2018, 12:59:57 PM
Ok, but what about in this case?  I see nothing wrong with MP trying to get a festival slot for his band after one guy pulled out and it just so happens to be JLB.

See my followup (that I already submitted)
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Nick on May 02, 2018, 01:12:12 PM
Well, what else can the promoter do?  Not contact SOA and try to test the waters if they are interested on a relatively short notice?  Of course, MP will take advantage of this moment if the promoter is willing to play ball.
I don't think anybody is finding fault with the decision.  It appears to solve everybody's problems.  Whatever the issues with the JLB band, they aren't playing, which is what they wanted.  The promoter has a headliner, which is what he wanted.  SOA had another festival gig, even if it is a small one, which is the type of thing they are looking for.  Everybody is happy, right?  What's the problem?

ProgPower is the oldest and most prominent festival of its type in America. While it's not some outdoor extravaganza like Wacken I would not call this a "small one". Frankly there are lots of important people in the metal world, not to mention fans who might not otherwise have seen them that will now see them at what is likely their best, live. This is a great gig for SoA.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: lonestar on May 02, 2018, 01:20:20 PM
Agreed Nick... And MP has a special love already for PPUSA, I'd expect a once in a lifetime performance out of this one. And I guarantee Glenn has a shit eating grin over this one.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bosk1 on May 02, 2018, 01:21:08 PM
Well, what else can the promoter do?  Not contact SOA and try to test the waters if they are interested on a relatively short notice?  Of course, MP will take advantage of this moment if the promoter is willing to play ball.
I don't think anybody is finding fault with the decision.  It appears to solve everybody's problems.  Whatever the issues with the JLB band, they aren't playing, which is what they wanted.  The promoter has a headliner, which is what he wanted.  SOA had another festival gig, even if it is a small one, which is the type of thing they are looking for.  Everybody is happy, right?  What's the problem?

ProgPower is the oldest and most prominent festival of its type in America. While it's not some outdoor extravaganza like Wacken I would not call this a "small one". Frankly there are lots of important people in the metal world, not to mention fans who might not otherwise have seen them that will now see them at what is likely their best, live. This is a great gig for SoA.

Okay, but you are quibbling over words and missing the point of my post.  But "old" and "prominent" or not, it is by just about any definition a "small" festival.  Capacity is, what, a few thousand?  And the headliners are which multi-platinum, stadium-selling artists again?  It's a small festival.  That isn't an indictment of the quality.  But it's not a Wacken, or Bloodstock, or Day on the Green, or M3, or what have you.  If it were a bigger festival, SOA would not be the headliner (and, in fairness, neither would JLB).
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Grappler on May 02, 2018, 01:28:14 PM
Well, what else can the promoter do?  Not contact SOA and try to test the waters if they are interested on a relatively short notice?  Of course, MP will take advantage of this moment if the promoter is willing to play ball.
I don't think anybody is finding fault with the decision.  It appears to solve everybody's problems.  Whatever the issues with the JLB band, they aren't playing, which is what they wanted.  The promoter has a headliner, which is what he wanted.  SOA had another festival gig, even if it is a small one, which is the type of thing they are looking for.  Everybody is happy, right?  What's the problem?

ProgPower is the oldest and most prominent festival of its type in America. While it's not some outdoor extravaganza like Wacken I would not call this a "small one". Frankly there are lots of important people in the metal world, not to mention fans who might not otherwise have seen them that will now see them at what is likely their best, live. This is a great gig for SoA.

And to piggy-back off of this, Progpower has been responsible for a vast number of US debuts of foreign bands (including Nightwish).  Pretty much any power metal band that has been touring the states over the last 10 years owes this to Progpower.  They brought over bands like Gamma Ray, Edguy, Nightwish and so many more, who then used the festival to build a tour around. 

In addition, he's pulled off some amazing reunions (Conception, prior to the recent reunion, Savatage under a different name) and one-off shows. Definitely not a small time fest, though it may have a smaller capacity than large outdoor fests.  It is very much a niche fest, but one that has single handedly kept a niche genre of music alive in the country and allowed those artists an opportunity to play in the US and tour in the US.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: busty sinclair on May 02, 2018, 01:36:27 PM
sorry if i overlooked it but whats the source that SoA is headlining now?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bosk1 on May 02, 2018, 01:39:54 PM
Kattelox said so.



































Also:  https://www.ultimatemetal.com/forum/threads/sons-of-apollo-confirmed-as-friday-night-headliner.1277278/
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on May 02, 2018, 01:40:49 PM
Yea it's a small festival overall but big in the genre. It's also extremely unique for the US.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Architeuthis on May 02, 2018, 01:45:10 PM
Hey this is great!  I hope it gets filmed as I can't make the trek to Atlanta. I don't think this is a knock on JLB.   You can't blame MP for wanting to get this gig, it will be nice change of pace from the smaller venues and will get them some good exposure..
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: SwedishGoose on May 02, 2018, 02:00:08 PM
Just saw Mike repost Prog Powers post about SOA taking the spot.
I think it makes perfect sense as the fanbase should be interrested in both.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Stadler on May 02, 2018, 02:49:57 PM
Sorry a noob, but who's "Glenn" and what's his stake in all this? 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: MirrorMask on May 02, 2018, 02:51:16 PM
Sorry a noob, but who's "Glenn" and what's his stake in all this?

The one who organizes the festival
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on May 02, 2018, 03:02:29 PM
Sorry a noob, but who's "Glenn" and what's his stake in all this?

The one who organizes the festival

Yup, festival promoter.  It's pretty much his baby.  I follow him on twitter, seems like a cool guy and is pretty open and honest.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Cool Chris on May 02, 2018, 03:18:02 PM
I am seeing way too many comments about "drama" here. There isn't any, so let's not create any out of thin air. If there is, I know the two guys it will come from.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: JayOctavarium on May 02, 2018, 03:22:13 PM
I am seeing way too many comments about "drama" here. There isn't any, so let's not create any out of thin air. If there is, I know the two guys it will come from.

Drama isn't a bad album...


But let's keep the discussion on SoA.




Anyone else miss Sons of Anarchy? Such an awesome show. I need to binge it again.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on May 02, 2018, 03:22:35 PM
I am seeing way too many comments about "drama" here. There isn't any, so let's not create any out of thin air. If there is, I know the two guys it will come from.

JLB created drama by cancelling his only solo gig in who knows how long
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bosk1 on May 02, 2018, 03:23:36 PM
As far as we know, James didn't cancel it. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: El Barto on May 02, 2018, 03:40:36 PM
As far as we know, James didn't cancel it.
According to his management he did.

Quote
While James and his band had been looking forward to this live appearance and performances of James’ solo material for many, many months, circumstances have forced the band to have to pull out of this year’s festival. The entire band regretfully makes this decision to officially cancel the appearance after several weeks of making every effort to try and maintain the scheduling as anticipated.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Nick on May 02, 2018, 03:41:05 PM
As far as we know, James didn't cancel it. 

Fair enough, James LaBrie (band), featuring singer James LaBrie canceled their only US show in 10+ years due to issues surrounding James LaBrie.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bosk1 on May 02, 2018, 03:43:02 PM
As far as we know, James didn't cancel it.
According to his management he did.

Quote
While James and his band had been looking forward to this live appearance and performances of James’ solo material for many, many months, circumstances have forced the band to have to pull out of this year’s festival. The entire band regretfully makes this decision to officially cancel the appearance after several weeks of making every effort to try and maintain the scheduling as anticipated.

According to the band's management, the band did.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: El Barto on May 02, 2018, 03:53:39 PM
Hey, I'm sorry James. That Prog Power show just isn't going to work for me.
Oh, that's too bad. Sorry to hear that. Wait, who are you again?
I'm Ray. I play bass in your band.
Oh, oh yeah. That's right. Well, we'll miss you. Hey, would you hand me that Rolodex over there?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bosk1 on May 02, 2018, 03:55:30 PM
I'm not sure I follow.  But if you are saying that James calls the shots in that band, that isn't really accurate.  It has pretty much been Matt's baby from the get-go.  Now, it may very well be that James was the one to call of this show.  But we don't know that.  And given how much control Matt has always had over this project, I wouldn't assume it was James, even though the announcement may seem to imply that.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on May 02, 2018, 04:03:49 PM
I don't know, the statement seems to be explicit to me that it was JLB and his commitments to DT as the reason (although I'll admit, there could be more that we don't know about) but given the statement, I would think we should assume this is the case and anything else is just speculation.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bosk1 on May 02, 2018, 04:19:37 PM
Yes, but it does not say that his commitments to Dream Theater are "the reason."  What it says is, "Unfortunately in this case, James LaBrie’s responsibilities to Dream Theater and his bandmates are of the utmost importance, and this will be a critical period of writing in studio for the next Dream Theater record."  To me, the incredibly vague wording (by the promoter--not a spokesman of the band, I might add) suggests that the reason is either unknown or cannot be disclosed, and the person who drafted the statement was just scrambling for something to say.  But in any case, read the statement carefully.  Note that it does not say what the reason for the cancellation actually is. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Nick on May 02, 2018, 04:30:07 PM
That wording came from JLBs management.

Edit: For clarification, it was posted by the promoter, but was a direct quote of a statement from his management.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bosk1 on May 02, 2018, 04:37:19 PM
First, says who?  It does not say that is the source, and we have not seen anything from his management.  Second, and more to the point if you had actually read what I wrote, so what?  No matter who wrote it, it is still vague and does not say what the reason for the cancellation is (and it reads, to me anyway, as though that ambiguity is intentional).

Are you intentionally missing the point of my posts today, Nick?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: KevShmev on May 02, 2018, 04:59:38 PM
Sorry a noob, but who's "Glenn" and what's his stake in all this?

 :lol :lol, I was thinking the same thing.  Everyone was talking about him like he is a household name and I am thinking, who?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Architeuthis on May 02, 2018, 06:41:23 PM
From what I've heard of JLB solo material/band, I'm kind of luke warm to it. I think Sons of Apollo is the better band to fit that bill at the PP festival by a landslide.  JLB is one of my favorite singers in the business, but I prefer him in DT..
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on May 02, 2018, 06:45:43 PM
From what I've heard of JLB solo material/band, I'm kind of luke warm to it. I think Sons of Apollo is the better band to fit that bill at the PP festival by a landslide.  JLB is one of my favorite singers in the business, but I prefer him in DT..

Here's where I disagree, PP is known for drawing rare and unique performances.  SOA will have completed two US tours in the same year as PP, yet JLB's band hasn't performed in who knows how long?  The uniqueness of his band is what made Day 3 of the festival really attractive to me.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Architeuthis on May 02, 2018, 06:53:42 PM
From what I've heard of JLB solo material/band, I'm kind of luke warm to it. I think Sons of Apollo is the better band to fit that bill at the PP festival by a landslide.  JLB is one of my favorite singers in the business, but I prefer him in DT..

Here's where I disagree, PP is known for drawing rare and unique performances.  SOA will have completed two US tours in the same year as PP, yet JLB's band hasn't performed in who knows how long?  The uniqueness of his band is what made Day 3 of the festival really attractive to me.
I feel for you man, but after seeing SOA a couple nights ago, I'm still fired up about the show and on the bandwagon..  They will put on a good show at PPUSA, and I hope you enjoy it if you go. :coolio
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on May 02, 2018, 06:54:52 PM
From what I've heard of JLB solo material/band, I'm kind of luke warm to it. I think Sons of Apollo is the better band to fit that bill at the PP festival by a landslide.  JLB is one of my favorite singers in the business, but I prefer him in DT..

Here's where I disagree, PP is known for drawing rare and unique performances.  SOA will have completed two US tours in the same year as PP, yet JLB's band hasn't performed in who knows how long?  The uniqueness of his band is what made Day 3 of the festival really attractive to me.
I feel for you man, but after seeing SOA a couple nights ago, I'm still fired up about the show and on the bandwagon..  They will put on a good show at PPUSA, and I hope you will enjoy it.. :coolio

Oh, I am sure I will.  I am still planning on seeing SOA in a couple weeks in NYC.  Their replacement is probably about as good as I can realistically expect, but its no JLB in my mind.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ytserush on May 02, 2018, 07:52:44 PM
Regarding the argument of "these are just the February dates", but have a look at the spacing between them and where they go geographically.

What "argument?"  That's exactly what it says on their website.  They will be touring throughout 2018, and only have February dates listed so far.  Not sure what exactly you are disputing.

Wouldn't you start in the bigger cities (bigger markets) and then move to the smaller ones? I see what Stads is trying to say and I kind of agree with him. Why not start with the bigger markets first? Flying Colors did it, AMob did it, DT did it, most of every other band has done it...why not SoA? Feels weird.

My guess, promoters.  The same people who booked all those bands mentioned probably look at this project as another one along those lines and don't want to take risks booking bigger events, lets do a test run in small markets and see if people come out.  The album didn't blow up the charts so I am not sure what the turn out will be for these shows and I imagine promoters think the same.  Remember MP struggling to get NA gigs for The Shattered Fortress?  Seems like he needs to start low with this band and build it up, no better way to do that then hit the road with what's available.

Exactly. You have to start somewhere.

This is just a trial run. If it bombs, then they're in trouble.

That said I won't be making the $25 commitment although tickets are less than I expected.

I can't see why they wouldn't be able to fill these venues. This is geared to the people who think this is Dream Theater Mach II.

I think it's a smart move even if it's the only one they can make at this point.

Get on some Euro-festivals and use those to book small US club dates and see what happens.

Shouldn't be a surprise.

So this is playing out as expected?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Orbert on May 02, 2018, 07:55:20 PM
Sorry a noob, but who's "Glenn" and what's his stake in all this?

 :lol :lol, I was thinking the same thing.  Everyone was talking about him like he is a household name and I am thinking, who?

I don't trust anybody who spells Glenn with two n's.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: MinistroRaven on May 02, 2018, 08:03:25 PM
Well, what else can the promoter do?  Not contact SOA and try to test the waters if they are interested on a relatively short notice?  Of course, MP will take advantage of this moment if the promoter is willing to play ball.  Nothing malicious about that and remember this, it's JLB was the one that dropped out after months of promoting that he was the headliner.  That's even a worst thing to do than any intent MP has.

Yeah but if MP can just swoop in and steal the spot.. I'm sure it at least crossed his mind how this would look to JLB/DT fans.

He didn't steal the spot, it was LEFT willingly by JLB and his band
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Nick on May 02, 2018, 08:18:53 PM
First, says who?  It does not say that is the source, and we have not seen anything from his management.  Second, and more to the point if you had actually read what I wrote, so what?  No matter who wrote it, it is still vague and does not say what the reason for the cancellation is (and it reads, to me anyway, as though that ambiguity is intentional).

Are you intentionally missing the point of my posts today, Nick?

(https://www.wpapu.com/images/JLB01.jpg)

I truly cannot see what is vague about this or how you are going to such great lengths to make it seem so? Typically you are very fond of what we know vs. speculation, but can't help like I'm living on bizzaro world in this situation. The statement comes from JLB's management, that is simply a stated fact, unless you accuse the festival of literally making up someone else's statement. The statement, while saying the band has made the decision to cancel together, specifically cites James' commitment to DT during the writing of the album as the reason for the cancellation. I just don't see what there is to argue on these points without going into blatant speculation, which again, you are typically very cautious about.

Edit: Just seeing this from another thread:

So, I talked to my peeps, and yeah, we are in fact drawing the WRONG conclusion from that announcement.  Any assumption that DT made James cancel is not accurate.  A more official clarifying announcement should be coming soon.  But I can tell you that my information is directly from the source.

I'm interested in seeing this, obviously, and seeing if this announcement offers anything better than the first.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ytserush on May 02, 2018, 08:24:21 PM
First, says who?  It does not say that is the source, and we have not seen anything from his management.  Second, and more to the point if you had actually read what I wrote, so what?  No matter who wrote it, it is still vague and does not say what the reason for the cancellation is (and it reads, to me anyway, as though that ambiguity is intentional).

Are you intentionally missing the point of my posts today, Nick?

(https://www.wpapu.com/images/JLB01.jpg)

I truly cannot see what is vague about this or how you are going to such great lengths to make it seem so? Typically you are very fond of what we know vs. speculation, but can't help like I'm living on bizzaro world in this situation. The statement comes from JLB's management, that is simply a stated fact, unless you accuse the festival of literally making up someone else's statement. The statement, while saying the band has made the decision to cancel together, specifically cites James' commitment to DT during the writing of the album as the reason for the cancellation. I just don't see what there is to argue on these points without going into blatant speculation, which again, you are typically very cautious about.

I feel like I live in bizzaro world in many situations these days......
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: jingle.boy on May 02, 2018, 08:33:17 PM
I'm with Nick on this.  Now, Bosk says he has some inside knowledge and a more detailed official announcement is coming, so this may be a moot point.  But, the only official statement we have is what's posted.  Why mention that the DT writing process and "this will be a critical period".  The only interpretation for this "period" is the time in and around PPUSA.  Why mention it otherwise?  If the cancellation isn't related to the DT writing process and James' "responsibilities" to DT to be "in studio", then it's not vaguely worded, it's *poorly* worded.

Is it directly stated to be the reason for the cancellation?  No I suppose not, it serves no purpose to mention it if it isn't inferred to be the reason - or at least a contributing factor.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bosk1 on May 03, 2018, 08:01:24 AM
Yes, the problem is that it IS poorly worded.  And, again, that statement is NOT from JLB management or DT management.  It implies that some of the information is from JLB management, but it is not a quote and is very vaguely worded.  There are several red flags in that post that caused me to talk to the band directly and get my clarification.  All I can say is, I am satisfied with the answer I got, and they are doing their due diligence on their side and expect to have a clarification forthcoming.  But in the mean time, don't assume that the implication that DT forced the James LaBrie band to pull out of PPUSA is correct.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: El Barto on May 03, 2018, 08:12:13 AM
It doesn't imply anything. It clearly states "message from LaBrie's management." Either it is, that Glenn guy is lying, or he emailed some guy named Kenny LaBrie from Des Moines and got him to make up a statement. Moreover, I don't recall anybody suggesting that DT forced him to pull out. The discussion was simply about JLB pulling out of the gig. Not sure why this is such a problem, nor why there's any need to dispute such a clear and, frankly, inoffensive explanation.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bosk1 on May 03, 2018, 08:17:17 AM
Not sure why this is such a problem, nor why there's any need to dispute such a clear and, frankly, inoffensive explanation.

Because people clearly ARE offended by the explanation, and many of those are assuming that DT is to blame.

And the fact that you and others feel the statement IS in fact clear is exactly why it is a problem. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Lethean on May 03, 2018, 08:26:43 AM
Bosk is right about that.  But if the new explanation is "The rest of DT isn't to blame, it's all JLB," that probably isn't going to do DT any favors either, depending on what else is said along with that.  Hopefully the clarification is one that a reasonable fan would read and say "oh, OK. That's too bad - I was really looking forward to his set, but I get. Hope to see his solo band some time in the future." Rather than what we're seeing now - DT is dead to me, DT is selfish, JLB is selfish, DT/JLB screwed Glenn over, DT/JLB screwed over fans who bought tickets and nonrefundable travel arrangements, etc.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: The Walrus on May 03, 2018, 09:10:50 AM
Don't forget how much everyone can count on MP to save the day when "the Canadian" drops the ball.  #MPWarriors #hardworking #bloodsweattears
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: SwedishGoose on May 03, 2018, 09:15:56 AM
Don't forget how much everyone can count on MP to save the day when "the Canadian" drops the ball.  #MPWarriors #hardworking #bloodsweattears

So far I haven't seen anything like that.... have you?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Lethean on May 03, 2018, 09:17:00 AM
I have, so Firewings probably has too.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: SwedishGoose on May 03, 2018, 09:21:56 AM
I have, so Firewings probably has too.

Links?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Lethean on May 03, 2018, 09:26:54 AM
Just to be clear - I'm talking about fan comments - not anything said by MP.  The ProgPower post announcing SOA has some, which is public, and I've also seen comments on a private ProgPower group.  (Facebook in both cases).
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Destiny Of Chaos on May 03, 2018, 09:30:07 AM
Good on MP for seizing this opportunity. He's done a fantastic job with every facet of Sons. Slipping into ProgPower is just another great move!
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on May 03, 2018, 09:39:28 AM
Good on MP for seizing this opportunity. He's done a fantastic job with every facet of Sons. Slipping into ProgPower is just another great move!

Yea, it really is.  I now hope they change something up with the setlist for PP.  Maybe do a different VH cover song at least. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: MirrorMask on May 03, 2018, 09:44:04 AM
They should use Derek touring with him in that period as an excuse to play Alice Cooper's Poison  :metal everyone say Bumblefoot is a good singer, let him handle all the backup vocals of that song  :lol

Addition: they could make the song heavier and less glam-ish, Alice himself sings it a bit differently live and the song sounds more modern and heavier than the album version.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on May 03, 2018, 09:46:00 AM
I would totally dig that
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: SwedishGoose on May 03, 2018, 09:46:40 AM
Just to be clear - I'm talking about fan comments - not anything said by MP.  The ProgPower post announcing SOA has some, which is public, and I've also seen comments on a private ProgPower group.  (Facebook in both cases).

Right.... well I don't fault MP for what his fans are doing
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Destiny Of Chaos on May 03, 2018, 09:51:43 AM
They should use Derek touring with him in that period as an excuse to play Alice Cooper's Poison  :metal everyone say Bumblefoot is a good singer, let him handle all the backup vocals of that song  :lol

Addition: they could make the song heavier and less glam-ish, Alice himself sings it a bit differently live and the song sounds more modern and heavier than the album version.


That would be incredible.

Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bosk1 on May 03, 2018, 09:58:56 AM
Good on MP for seizing this opportunity. He's done a fantastic job with every facet of Sons. Slipping into ProgPower is just another great move!

Yes, good for him for seizing the opportunity.  But I take issue with "He's done a fantastic job with every facet of Sons."  I think he most decidedly has NOT.  But that's neither here nor there.  We can give him credit without pretending he's something he's not.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Destiny Of Chaos on May 03, 2018, 10:09:32 AM
Good on MP for seizing this opportunity. He's done a fantastic job with every facet of Sons. Slipping into ProgPower is just another great move!

Yes, good for him for seizing the opportunity.  But I take issue with "He's done a fantastic job with every facet of Sons."  I think he most decidedly has NOT.  But that's neither here nor there.  We can give him credit without pretending he's something he's not.


You're right. Stating it like I did turns a blind eye to the initial mudslinging.  Guessed I was more focused on the music and touring.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Grappler on May 03, 2018, 11:06:12 AM
Just to be clear - I'm talking about fan comments - not anything said by MP.  The ProgPower post announcing SOA has some, which is public, and I've also seen comments on a private ProgPower group.  (Facebook in both cases).

Keep in mind that the Progpower fans and attendees are very cliquey.  They take festival cancellations as a personal affront to them and their beloved festival and promoter.  Volbeat was booked years ago and they cancelled (I think to open for Metallica?) and for years some of the festival's vocal online fans held it against the band as they started to get bigger.  So some of these comments might be coming from a place of "how dare you do this to MY favorite festival" as opposed to "oh this sucks, I wanted to see you play so badly."

Yeah, the cancellation is shitty, the explanation is stupid and Glenn booking Sons of Apollo is both awesome for the band, the fest and absolutely hilarious in terms of trolling (I can picture him being so pissed off that Sons was his only choice and he went after them hard, just to stick it to JLB). 

People have every right to be bummed, but I take those comments with a big grain of salt based on the reaction to prior Progpower cancellations. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: The Walrus on May 03, 2018, 11:18:12 AM
Just to be clear - I'm talking about fan comments - not anything said by MP.  The ProgPower post announcing SOA has some, which is public, and I've also seen comments on a private ProgPower group.  (Facebook in both cases).

Correct on both this and Lethean's assumption that I've already seen them. I am an Internet sleuth, after all
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bosk1 on May 03, 2018, 03:20:43 PM
Lots of videos of the show I attended.

Lines in the Sand:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fJ0_yuwMfGI

Alive:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1W3Mrl0_zN4

Signs of the Times:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b-ZabheVTp4

Labyrinth:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=195hK4gEJfM

Where's Jeff?  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RLurp3FuMbY

Coming Home:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NQjkp-5AR58  (even if you don't care for the song much, this video is great and really showcases Jeff working the crowd toward the end)

Lots more I didn't link to as well.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Lethean on May 03, 2018, 08:23:06 PM
Just to be clear - I'm talking about fan comments - not anything said by MP.  The ProgPower post announcing SOA has some, which is public, and I've also seen comments on a private ProgPower group.  (Facebook in both cases).

Right.... well I don't fault MP for what his fans are doing

Neither do I. My comments weren't to do with MP at all - even if SOA wasn't playing the festival and there was a totally different replacement, I still think DT/JLB should provide a better explanation of the cancellation to avoid, or should I say mitigate, the bad PR they're getting.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Lethean on May 03, 2018, 08:28:00 PM
Just to be clear - I'm talking about fan comments - not anything said by MP.  The ProgPower post announcing SOA has some, which is public, and I've also seen comments on a private ProgPower group.  (Facebook in both cases).

Keep in mind that the Progpower fans and attendees are very cliquey.  They take festival cancellations as a personal affront to them and their beloved festival and promoter.  Volbeat was booked years ago and they cancelled (I think to open for Metallica?) and for years some of the festival's vocal online fans held it against the band as they started to get bigger.  So some of these comments might be coming from a place of "how dare you do this to MY favorite festival" as opposed to "oh this sucks, I wanted to see you play so badly."

Yeah, the cancellation is shitty, the explanation is stupid and Glenn booking Sons of Apollo is both awesome for the band, the fest and absolutely hilarious in terms of trolling (I can picture him being so pissed off that Sons was his only choice and he went after them hard, just to stick it to JLB). 

People have every right to be bummed, but I take those comments with a big grain of salt based on the reaction to prior Progpower cancellations.

That's undoubtedly true. Some are upset because they were specifically going for JLB, some are upset on behalf of those who were going specifically for JLB, and of course there are those who just feel that he's screwing the festival over.  But even of those, I think only a small handful are truly unreasonable.  Kingcrow also cancelled this year and it's for an undisclosed personal issue of some sort, but people understand.  The explanation from James LaBrie's management, or whoever, just doesn't make a whole lot of sense.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Ben_Jamin on May 04, 2018, 11:01:09 AM
I'm happy I get to hear Labryinth live now...

(And ask JSS whom that JD belonged too.)
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on May 04, 2018, 11:09:51 AM
I'm happy I get to hear Labryinth live now...

(And ask JSS whom that JD belonged too.)

Now that I think about it, don't all bands do a signing session at PP?  I couldn't make any last time I went due to going to class during the afternoon but if SOA has a signing session, that would be cool since it's such a solid group of musicians.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: devieira73 on May 08, 2018, 04:08:02 PM
Writing a new album by the end of this year 👍
https://patch.com/new-jersey/ridgewood/sons-apollo-fuse-hard-rock-prog-rock-godly-results
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bosk1 on May 08, 2018, 04:18:43 PM
Quote
His solo showcase "Figaro's Whore" has rightfully been cast as the keyboard equivalent to Eddie Van Halen instrumental classic, "Eruption."
  :rollin :umno:  But once they get to the actual interview part, it's not bad.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: devieira73 on May 08, 2018, 04:57:52 PM
I read the interview with more atention now and... maybe the goal for the next album is to have more 10 songs like Coming Home?! :omg: ;D
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on May 08, 2018, 04:59:45 PM
I read the interview with more atention now and... maybe the goal for the next album is to have 10 more songs like Coming Home?! :omg: ;D

 :lol that quote took me for concern as well
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bosk1 on May 08, 2018, 05:11:14 PM
Well, I like the song, so :dunno:  And it does go over well live.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: devieira73 on May 08, 2018, 05:31:56 PM
I really like it to, but, joke aside, I hope they keep the prog side of the band in the next album  :tup
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on May 08, 2018, 05:41:57 PM
I think it was a bit more on the joking side, but just in general, the idea of making 10 more of anything from an artist is a bit overkill.  Granted, I enjoy the song and if it goes over well live then I understand that reasoning.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Architeuthis on May 09, 2018, 03:15:28 PM
I read the interview with more atention now and... maybe the goal for the next album is to have more 10 songs like Coming Home?! :omg: ;D
Nooo,  while Coming home is a good song, it's not one of the better songs on the album.  I'd like to hear more pieces like Alive, GOTS, instrumental etc..
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: axeman90210 on May 09, 2018, 03:31:16 PM
I read it as they wanted ten more songs like Coming Home in terms of the reception it gets live, not as literally copying Coming Home ten times.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: The Walrus on May 09, 2018, 03:32:16 PM
Well, they've proven they can copy it at least once :neverusethis:
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: JayOctavarium on May 10, 2018, 09:20:50 AM
So...

Everytime I read "Coming Home", the Alter Bridge song pops into my head.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: MirrorMask on May 10, 2018, 09:25:47 AM
Stratovarius has a ballad named like that. Grave Digger too. Probably other 48 bands, including song titles such as "Carry on" and "Forever".
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: The Walrus on May 10, 2018, 09:28:16 AM
Stratovarius has a ballad named like that. Grave Digger too. Probably other 48 bands, including song titles such as "Carry on" and "Forever".

It's pretty comical to go through one's collection of metal songs and try to group all the songs that have all those generic titles. Forever, Coming Home, and Carry On are three of the biggest offenders. Also "Silence" or "Silence of (whatever)".
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Fritzinger on May 10, 2018, 10:50:45 AM
There's even a (pretty cool) Falco song named Coming Home  :biggrin:
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on May 10, 2018, 10:57:14 AM
Even JLB has a song Coming Home.  Iron Maiden's Coming Home is pretty solid.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Architeuthis on May 10, 2018, 10:59:39 AM
I read it as they wanted ten more songs like Coming Home in terms of the reception it gets live, not as literally copying Coming Home ten times.
I think the reason it gets a big reception at their shows is because they save it as their final encore. By that time the crowd is all fired up.  They would have had the same result if they had swapped any other song in that spot..
 Coming Home is a fun song though. 😎
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: El Barto on May 10, 2018, 11:13:50 AM
Coming Home is the worst song on the album, IMO, but it does come off much better live. And saving it for last, and after ATCWR definitely helps.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Adami on May 10, 2018, 11:15:01 AM
Coming Home is the worst song on the album, IMO, but it does come off much better live. And saving it for last, and after ATCWR definitely helps.

What? No way is it worse than whatever's whore and the instrumental thing.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: MirrorMask on May 10, 2018, 11:28:57 AM
Even JLB has a song Coming Home.  Iron Maiden's Coming Home is pretty solid.

Wow. My favorite band and my second favorite singer and I thought about Stratovarious before that. Silly me.

James' song is about Dexter, and is better as a standalone song than the entire final season.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bosk1 on May 10, 2018, 11:29:42 AM
I FEEL A RANKING COMING ON!!!

1.  Alive - Great song.  My #1 and #2 are close.  Seeing the song live put it over the top.
2.  Labrynth - Usually, I am a "more is more" kind of guy.  I love MOST of this song and I think I probably had it as my #1 for awhile.  But some of the instrumental stuff feels that it meanders just a bit too much to put it ahead of Alive.
3.  God of the Sun - Great opener, both on the album and live.  Lots of cool things going on in this one.
4.  Signs of the Time - I liked this one from the get go, and if anything, I like it more now than when it was first released.
5.  Divine Addiction - I'm not sure why I don't rank this song higher, other than just the simple fact of liking the other songs more.  Nice, tasty organ riffs definitely evoke some great '80s hard rock moments.
6.  Coming Home - Just a solid, enjoyable song. 
7.  Lost in Oblivion - This song has a lot going for it, but doesn't feel cohesive to me.  Not a bad song, but not one I usually want to hear either.
8.  Figaro's Whore - Decent little keyboard wanky transition piece that doesn't overstay its welcome.
9.  Opus Maximus - An instrumental generally has to be REALLY good to get my attention.  This one does not fall in that category.  Some cool parts.  But I often just shut off the disk when it starts. 

So, 6 songs I actively like, 2 that I don't mind, and 1 that I don't care for at all.  That's not a bad ratio.  If this were the '80s, that would be a VERY solid album.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Stadler on May 10, 2018, 11:48:27 AM
Stratovarius has a ballad named like that. Grave Digger too. Probably other 48 bands, including song titles such as "Carry on" and "Forever".

It's pretty comical to go through one's collection of metal songs and try to group all the songs that have all those generic titles. Forever, Coming Home, and Carry On are three of the biggest offenders. Also "Silence" or "Silence of (whatever)".

My buddy Eric and I used to play a lot of softball, and we were in bands for probably 20 years.  There were these two other guys who were in a band together and they were sort of our nemeses.   One of the guys and Eric were like two alpha males, always in competition.  The other guy married my high school girlfriend; I later realized I made a mistake, so I hated him and he always knew I was "the one that got away" and so he hated me.  Anyway, one weekend Eric and I played them in a softball game tournament and we won.  We're drinking beer after and those two come up and start in with the excuses "we would  have won but we're hung over from our album release party, blah blah blah."   So they hand us this CD.  Eric looks at me and says "cover band?" and they get all mad, because they were so proud they wrote all the songs.  It sounded like bad Night Ranger and all the titles were like "In Your Eyes" and "Need Your Love" and "Round and Round" and "Feels Like Forever" and "I Believe In You"  (All real titled from that band, by the way).    So clichéd its an insult to real clichés. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Destiny Of Chaos on May 10, 2018, 12:06:38 PM
My ranking:

God Tier (Right up there with some of DT's best)
1. God of the Sun
2. Opus Maximus
3. Labyrinth

Very Good Tier
4. Lost in Oblivion
5. Divine Addiction
6. Signs of the Time 

Okay Tier
7. Alive
8. Coming Home 
9. Figaro's Whore
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on May 10, 2018, 12:14:29 PM
God of the Sun
Alive
------------------
Opus Maximus
Signs of the Time
Labyrinth
Coming Home
Lost in Oblivion
Divine Addiction
------------------
Figaro's Whore
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: MirrorMask on May 10, 2018, 12:44:11 PM
God of the Sun first and foremost, and then Labyrinth if you cut a good part of the solo section
----------
Alive, Divine Addiction, Signs of the Time
----------
Lost in Oblivion, Coming Home
----------
The two instrumentals

But I really like them all, save for the instrumentals, especially if you make some little cuts here and there.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Architeuthis on May 10, 2018, 01:04:37 PM
It's hard for me to rank, because my favorite song on the album changes sometimes from day to day. GOTS and Alive seem to stay pretty consistent in my top two. There is not a weak song on this record, I really like listening to the whole thing each time.
 As far as Opus Maximus, I absolutely love it!  Great instrumental that takes me on a journey, and the transition to the soaring melodic part towards the end is awesome live!
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: El Barto on May 10, 2018, 02:02:14 PM
I never got the hate for Figaro's Whore. I like Sherinian, and it's simply him doing his thing.
Not a big Alive fan. Portnoy's callback vocals are becoming tiresome. It's neat at first, but the fun wears off quickly.
God of the Sun is a great song, despite being a ripoff of both Home and Scarface. The highlight, I think.
I really dig Divine Addiction, as it's essentially just an old Kansas song. PoNR era, I'd say.
Opus is good at times and not at others. Pretty varied.

The rest of the album is all pretty samey for me. Generic stuff, honestly.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Architeuthis on May 10, 2018, 02:22:29 PM
I don't see GOTS being a Home rip-off. Perhaps the middle eastern feel in some parts, but that is pretty common in the world of metal..
Each of those songs are two different beasts imo, GOTS being the better song..
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: IDontNotDoThings on May 10, 2018, 06:45:26 PM

Decent Tier
1. Labyrinth
2. Coming Home
3. Opus Maximus

Mediocre Tier
4. Signs Of The Time
5. God Of The Sun
6. Divine Addiction

Awful Tier
7. Alive
8. Figaro's Whore
9. Lost In Oblivion (would be undoubtedly the worst DT song if it was one)
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Madman Shepherd on May 10, 2018, 07:26:19 PM
Top Tier (In no order)"
God of the Sun, Labyrinth, Divine Addiction - Be honest.  This one was left over from DP's Perfect Strangers and are just letting the band use it.  It's that good. 

Middle Tier:
Alive - Honestly it would be lower tier but it translates really well live. 

Bottom Tier:
Everything else.  Ya know, Figaro's Whore would have been fine if it wouldn't have had a stupid name and would have just been saved for the live show.  Jon Lord used to have cool intros before songs like You Fool No One.  It could have been along the same lines but he had to pretend like it was the keyboard version of Eruption.  Lame. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Stadler on May 10, 2018, 10:22:53 PM

I really dig Divine Addiction, as it's essentially just an old Kansas song. PoNR era, I'd say.

Huh, that's a good observation.   
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Schurftkut on May 12, 2018, 09:46:38 AM
so i just read that they're going back into the studio in November, and that they signed for a 3 disc contract with Sony, so at least we'll hear some more music from these guys in the future :-)
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Architeuthis on May 12, 2018, 11:27:32 AM
so i just read that they're going back into the studio in November, and that they signed for a 3 disc contract with Sony, so at least we'll hear some more music from these guys in the future :-)
  :metal :metal :metal
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Orbert on May 12, 2018, 01:37:01 PM
3-disc contract?  I had no idea that labels still did that.  Definitely a good thing. :tup
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: IDontNotDoThings on May 12, 2018, 04:51:21 PM
3-disc contract?  I had no idea that labels still did that.  Definitely a good thing. :tup

triple album confirmed?  :justjen
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Madman Shepherd on May 12, 2018, 05:02:12 PM
3-disc contract?  I had no idea that labels still did that.  Definitely a good thing. :tup

triple album confirmed?  :justjen

Yeah but disc 2 is a covers album and disc 3 they cover their first album.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Orbert on May 12, 2018, 05:26:20 PM
:lol
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Anxiety35 on May 12, 2018, 07:41:16 PM
3-disc contract?  I had no idea that labels still did that.  Definitely a good thing. :tup

triple album confirmed?  :justjen

Yeah but disc 2 is a covers album and disc 3 they cover their first album.

 :rollin
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: RodrigoAltaf on May 13, 2018, 04:21:22 AM
Disc 2 will be the live album to be recorded later in the year in Bulgaria.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Evermind on May 13, 2018, 04:23:52 AM
3-disc contract?  I had no idea that labels still did that.  Definitely a good thing. :tup

triple album confirmed?  :justjen

Yeah but disc 2 is a covers album and disc 3 they cover their first album.

I just can't stop laughing at this. :rollin
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on May 13, 2018, 11:57:32 AM
Disc 2 will be the live album to be recorded later in the year in Bulgaria.

And isn't this already going to be a double disc?  The full album and then a disc of covers?  That would leave one more studio disc for the new album in the deal maybe?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ReaperKK on May 13, 2018, 12:27:40 PM
3-disc contract?  I had no idea that labels still did that.  Definitely a good thing. :tup

triple album confirmed?  :justjen

Is this not just a 3 album contract? Surely a band with only one album under their belt is not doing a triple-album.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: The Walrus on May 13, 2018, 12:31:19 PM
A triple album would be soooo prog though  :lol
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Architeuthis on May 13, 2018, 12:49:08 PM
If their next album tops Psychotic Symphony, I think SOA will gain popularity.  They got some of the best musicians in the business, and certainly have the potential to put out some great music in the future.
Psychotic Symphony is a very strong start imo..  :hat
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Enigmachine on May 13, 2018, 01:23:04 PM
If their next album tops Psychotic Symphony, I think SOA will gain popularity.  They got some of the best musicians in the business, and certainly have the potential to put out some great music in the future.
Psychotic Symphony is a very strong start imo..  :hat

It's very strong only as a start though, as sort of a "here's what we can do" sort of thing. PS is not something I find myself wanting to come back to, despite liking it. Some good foundations there, but just needs a little more depth.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: IDontNotDoThings on May 14, 2018, 01:36:41 AM
3-disc contract?  I had no idea that labels still did that.  Definitely a good thing. :tup

triple album confirmed?  :justjen

Is this not just a 3 album contract? Surely a band with only one album under their belt is not doing a triple-album.

I know, I was just making fun of the wording :lol

I mean, it would be pretty interesting though, even though it'd probably suck :dunno:
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Mebert78 on May 15, 2018, 09:22:41 PM
so i just read that they're going back into the studio in November, and that they signed for a 3 disc contract with Sony, so at least we'll hear some more music from these guys in the future :-)

Cool news!  But I wonder what Richie Kotzen's reaction will be to that.  This is turning into a long hiatus for the Winery Dogs.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Anguyen92 on May 15, 2018, 09:38:36 PM
Cool news!  But I wonder what Richie Kotzen's reaction will be to that.  This is turning into a long hiatus for the Winery Dogs.

I don't think Richie Kotzen does not mind it too much.  Apparently, from what I read, he likes doing his own thing and when everyone's schedule aligns and they are up for it, Winery Dogs will come back, eventually.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: gzarruk on May 15, 2018, 10:20:01 PM
Well, considering there’s a new Flying Colors album, a new Neal Morse Band album and then a new Sons of Apollo album coming, I don’t think there are many chances for TWD to do something in the next 2 to 3 years, at least.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on May 16, 2018, 07:28:45 AM
Cool news!  But I wonder what Richie Kotzen's reaction will be to that.  This is turning into a long hiatus for the Winery Dogs.

I don't think Richie Kotzen does not mind it too much.  Apparently, from what I read, he likes doing his own thing and when everyone's schedule aligns and they are up for it, Winery Dogs will come back, eventually.

Last interview I read, Ritchie said he was ready to do TWD.  I don't see it happening in the near future either though.  Maybe another year the earliest.

On another note, I am pretty excited to see them Friday night in NYC.  Been listening to the album a bit more recently to get into it since I hadn't really gone back much after the release.  I anticipate a fun show.  Anyone else from DTF going to this?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Mebert78 on May 16, 2018, 09:13:59 AM
Anyone else from DTF going to this?

I'll be there!  Looking forward to it as well and I expect a great show.  :metal 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Stadler on May 16, 2018, 09:39:42 AM
I'm going either Friday in NY or Saturday in Worcester.   Leaning to Worcester because it's closer, but if I change my mind I'll let you know.  Maybe we can grab a beer. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on May 16, 2018, 09:59:56 AM
Yea let me know,  I'd be down for a meet up although I don't expect to be around the venue early.  I'm not really interested in the opener so I don't plan on leaving work early to get over there.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Mebert78 on May 16, 2018, 10:18:05 AM
Looks like there are two opening bands and the show is supposed to start at 8 p.m.  What time do you guys think Sons of Apollo will go on -- 10 p.m.?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Architeuthis on May 16, 2018, 10:36:13 AM
Looks like there are two opening bands and the show is supposed to start at 8 p.m.  What time do you guys think Sons of Apollo will go on -- 10 p.m.?
The two opening bands were worth seeing, great talent!  SOA didn't start til about 9:30 at the Seattle show. Well worth the wait, they were amazing!
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: TheCountOfNYC on May 16, 2018, 10:39:07 AM
Anyone else from DTF going to this?

I'll be there!  Looking forward to it as well and I expect a great show.  :metal

I’m going too. I’m super pumped for this. Should be an extremely fun concert.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on May 16, 2018, 10:45:43 AM
MP shows in NYC are always special.  Loved how he named off a bunch of his memorable ones with DT at the 12SS show last fall. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: axeman90210 on May 16, 2018, 10:02:42 PM
I will in all likelihood be at the show Friday night. I'm waiting to make sure I get something in the mail tomorrow so I can brew a beer tomorrow night, because if the mail gets delayed I'll have to skip the show to brew Friday night instead.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on May 19, 2018, 12:03:12 PM
I thought they were awesome.  Place was like half full but they brought it.  Just so impressed by Bumblefoot.  Amazing guitarist and is just awesome on stage.  Must say, I am also impressed with JSS.  I'd say he was the weak link on the album, but I felt his live performance of those songs was MUCH better.  He also was a lot of fun to watch on stage, he really seemed wild.  Also was drinking quite a bit so maybe that was it.  Either way, he had some odd dance moves, but that's fine.  He was into it and giving it all.  Near the end he sung without any microphone and just sounded amazing and had so much power.   I thought the cover songs were done really well.  Surprised I liked JLMB as much as I did.  I like the song more than most, but thought the flawless and energetic live rendition by SOA was really well done.  LITS was great as well, which I expected.  The JSS and Bumblefoot solo spots were also much better than I expected them to be.  These two really shined and it almost felt like it was their show and everyone else took a back seat.   

Here are my videos and highlights:

Sons of Apollo - Alive Live @ Playstation Theater New York City (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BpInsE1NzcY)

My long video:

Sons of Apollo - Live @ Playstation Theater New York City *cramx3 concert experience* (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RUEIx4Ucoso)

7:18 - MP calls out JSS for his sexy dance moves
25:22 - JSS asks Ron where his mom is and what he should call her  :lol
38:06 - JSS appears in the crowd to have a shot with people and sings And The Cradle Will Rock
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Architeuthis on May 19, 2018, 01:40:02 PM
Dude those are awesome vids, thanks for sharing!  I wish I could watch that on the big screen tv through stereo sound.  At least I was at the Seattle show. :coolio
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: TAC on May 19, 2018, 05:13:40 PM


Sons of Apollo - Live @ Playstation Theater New York City *cramx3 concert experience* (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RUEIx4Ucoso)

Cram, as always, you totally knocked it out. Awesome job.

You freaked me out at the 25 second mark where you appear in the top left corner, it literally looked like you appeared on a Times Square billboard. :lol
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Stadler on May 19, 2018, 05:16:01 PM
At Worcester.    Rumour is they barely sold 500 tix, place holds 2,100.    Place is bad ass though.


I’ll bet a case of beer mike programmed the music.  It rules.  Queen.  Ozzy: “Looking at you looking at me.”
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on May 19, 2018, 05:40:01 PM
Yea the house music is definitely picked by the band just wait for all the Van Halen  :yarr

Thanks TAC and Architeuthis  :metal

I also tweeted this separate clip of JSS dancing which he responded to and also shared on his page with further explanation  :lol

https://twitter.com/Cramx3/status/997898913968476160?s=19 (https://twitter.com/Cramx3/status/997898913968476160?s=19)
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: TAC on May 19, 2018, 05:44:30 PM
Did he call you Prince? :lol
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on May 19, 2018, 06:01:57 PM
Did he call you Prince? :lol

There also was a royal wedding and a musician, and me. I dont know.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: OpenYourEyes311 on May 19, 2018, 06:12:18 PM
When do Sons come on and when do they play until?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Stadler on May 19, 2018, 06:44:51 PM
8:45 and Felix somebody is on stage.   Good, but not really my thing.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Stadler on May 19, 2018, 09:36:22 PM
More tomorrow but...  holy crap. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on May 20, 2018, 07:44:28 AM
When do Sons come on and when do they play until?

In NYC, they came on around 945 and played until 11:45ish
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: axeman90210 on May 20, 2018, 09:49:57 AM
I would have gone to the show Friday night if not for the two openers. Knew that an 8pm start time meant that I'd be on the 12:45am bus home and it wasn't worth it for the same setlist we got in Asbury Park a couple months ago.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: rumborak on May 20, 2018, 04:02:23 PM
I also went to the Worcester show. Great show, which is why I went, Bumblefoot was on fire.

De Soto, great singing and stage presence, very much enjoyed it.

But man, his drinking. I couldn't help but think "dude, you're 50, and essentially everybody in the audience is around that too. Drinking vodka straight from a Solo cup ... that's probably not going to end well."
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Architeuthis on May 20, 2018, 04:08:30 PM
Sometimes a little liquid courage can help him relax on stage, but there's a fine line, lol!  He didn't seem intoxicated at all though, just enough to take the edge off and have fun performing.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Stadler on May 20, 2018, 07:31:26 PM
So.... I wasn't expecting much.   I listened to the album on the way up and wasn't really any more impressed than I was the first (and only) time I listened to it.  "JLMB" is a great song, but while I like "LITS", I can't stand the vocals, so it depended on how they did it.

First, I thought it odd that the two "stars" of the band - Derek and Mike - were both up in the back (where they stayed for the entire show) and were the least energetic and enthusiastic of the band.  He played really well, but that was by far the least animated I've seen Mike at a show.

Second, Billy was Billy.   He rocked, and unlike the videos I've seen before, he played the double neck the entire show and played both necks, not quite equally, but enough to make it more than a prop.

The stars, though, were Bumblefoot and Jeff.   I knew Bumblefoot was good, but not that good.   I went by myself, but in line to get in, I started talking to three guys, including a father and son, the father having seen Mike something like 25 or 30 times or something like that.  None were ecstatic about LaBrie, so the one "wild card" for the Dream Theater material were the Petrucci parts.  At the end of JLMB, the father turned and sort of nodded his head like "not bad, not bad".   I thought he was great.  I he delivered on everything, from the album material to the DT material, to the Queen song (an "acoustic" version of Save Me) to the metal of Van Halen.   I had seen him with Guns and Roses, but he wasn't carrying the band like he was here.   Derek was good, but it seemed as if the melodic portions of the songs were carried by Bumble, not Derek.   He really was the backbone of the sound, and nailed it.

The real revelation was Jeff.  He blew me away.    The album material was sung note-perfect, and in fact, he breathed life into some of the parts that were for me pretty average.   The other criticism I had of the album is that it is too one-dimensional; it seemed like the guitar, keys and vocals were all sort of competing for the same frequencies and it made it sound like mush to me; live not so much.  I know Jeff had a pedal-board that he used periodically through the night (mostly during the a cappella part of "The Prophets Song") which added some depth, but he really cut through in a way that he didn't for me on the record.  I didn't really notice the drinking aspect, except during the first encore, which he spent walking up the stairs toward the back (where there was a bar).    He was making a thing about getting a drink and not having a wrist band, which I took to be funny schtick, not sincere drunk complaining.    He sang the whole song just about from the audience and I thought it was just the right mix of "cool rock and roll frontman" and actual performance. 

I feel a little bad about this, but it's inevitable, in my opinion: while I much prefer LaBrie's vocals on record, and he's sung some of the most iconic lines in prog-metal history, live, I believe Soto schooled him.  I'd much rather listen to what I heard last night than some of the passages I've heard from LaBrie live.  Plus, while the band was on stage, Soto was on stage.  In my opinion, what I saw last night was what Derek - by the way, introduced by Soto as "Shit-stirinian", among other things during his little rhyme introductions - was promising.  That was a well-played, energetic, even emotional at times ("Save Me" was a really moving performance) show that may be my second favorite DT/Portnoy related show I've ever seen (behind the Similitude show I saw). 

Felix Martin:  certainly technically impressive; nothing I saw would have been out of place on any Crimson album from 1980 onward, but it just didn't connect emotionally with me.  It didn't touch me.   The opening act, The Sifting, wasn't earth-shattering, but they were WAY better than they should have been for an opening act on a three-act bill in a club with 500, 750 people tops.   Singer was a little over the top, and he has to work on his sound (he was throwing shapes like a madman, but it was as if his guitar wasn't plugged in.  Loses it's effect!) but I would check them out again.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: rumborak on May 20, 2018, 07:58:34 PM
Agree on absolutely everything, Stadler. Bummed I couldn't stick around for the encore, but I had to drive back to Boston, and boy did that drive suck.

Felix Martin, yeah. This tapping stuff simply doesn't cut through a bass-drums combo, and so after the third song it all sounded the same.

Agree about Derek and MP. They were rather subdued in the back, but frankly I didn't mind since Jeff, Ron and Billy are such excellent front men. MP's parts on the album are not too exciting anyway.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Architeuthis on May 21, 2018, 03:12:42 AM
Hmmm,  I thought MP was on fire at the Seattle show!  :metal
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on May 21, 2018, 09:25:32 AM
Stadler pretty much nailed it for how I felt as well.  JFF and BF stole the show while the MP/DS kind of just were playing along in the back.  Not that they weren't spectacular in their own ways, it was just hard to keep your eyes off the other two who were running around like wild on the stage (and JFF in the crowd). 

It's funny, SOA was Friday night in a hardly filled theater then Saturday night I saw Misfits in a sold out arena and in terms of musicianship and sound, it was night and day as well as the opposite feeling with regards to the crowd  :lol  Such a cool back to back different experience of concerts.  Actually made me really appreciate SOA so much more.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: The Walrus on May 21, 2018, 09:28:23 AM
How much was Soto drinking? I'll only make it through their PP set if I'm wasted, and I want to keep up with him.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: MirrorMask on May 21, 2018, 09:29:34 AM
It's funny, SOA was Friday night in a hardly filled theater then Saturday night I saw Misfits in a sold out arena and in terms of musicianship and sound, it was night and day as well as the opposite feeling with regards to the crowd  :lol  Such a cool back to back different experience of concerts.  Actually made me really appreciate SOA so much more.

Different back to back concerts are awesome. One time I've seen Loreena McKennitt in a theater, and the day after a folk / rock band in the suburbs, going from mystical tunes sung with an angelic voice to moshpits supported by bagpipes was glorious  :lol

Anyway, hasn't anyone basically told the same thing since reviews came in? how Jeff and Bumblefoot steal the show while Derek and Mike are being shadowed by them?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on May 21, 2018, 09:48:33 AM
How much was Soto drinking? I'll only make it through their PP set if I'm wasted, and I want to keep up with him.

He was drinking throughout the set on Friday night.  He had family/friends in the crowd and did a shot with them during the encore.  I don't know if that's an every concert thing or a friday night in NYC with your friends type of thing.  He didn't really come off as drunk other than just being very loose and having fun though.  He still sounded amazing at the end of the show.  I'm actually really looking forward to their PP set.  I hope they do some different cover songs.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Stadler on May 21, 2018, 10:10:45 AM
He had a drink with someone in the crowd in Worcester as well.   He was had a cup back on the drum riser, but I never in a million years would have said he was "drunk".   His vocals were spot on, he hit all his cues, and he was diddling with his pedal rack while doing it.   He was making jokes about the Celtics throughout the show ("Sorry your Celtics took a shit in the playoff game!" or something like that) and made jokes about "Worcester" being "Boston" (or not).   Maybe I'm jaded, having seen Stephen Tyler falling off a drum riser he was so hammered, that having a couple drinks during the show wasn't even noticeable to me. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Fritzinger on May 21, 2018, 10:22:02 AM
Maybe I'm jaded, having seen Stephen Tyler falling off a drum riser he was so hammered, that having a couple drinks during the show wasn't even noticeable to me.

I see what you did there  ;)
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Stadler on May 21, 2018, 10:42:08 AM
Maybe I'm jaded, having seen Stephen Tyler falling off a drum riser he was so hammered, that having a couple drinks during the show wasn't even noticeable to me.

I see what you did there  ;)

Haha!  I rarely watch late night TV - I think the hosts are largely assholes, and I can't stand how it's been so dumbed down - but I will on occasion DVR a guest I like, and he was on James Corden the other night.  When James did his usual "knocking on the dressing room door" bit, he asked Stephen how he was, and Stephen answered "Beyond Beautiful, and you?" which is probably my favorite song off the album from which "Jaded" came. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Fritzinger on May 21, 2018, 10:46:05 AM
Maybe I'm jaded, having seen Stephen Tyler falling off a drum riser he was so hammered, that having a couple drinks during the show wasn't even noticeable to me.

I see what you did there  ;)

Haha!  I rarely watch late night TV - I think the hosts are largely assholes, and I can't stand how it's been so dumbed down - but I will on occasion DVR a guest I like, and he was on James Corden the other night.  When James did his usual "knocking on the dressing room door" bit, he asked Stephen how he was, and Stephen answered "Beyond Beautiful, and you?" which is probably my favorite song off the album from which "Jaded" came.

I think Beyond Beautiful is a very underrated album. I love the title track as well, it's probably also my favorite song on the album.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Madman Shepherd on May 21, 2018, 12:06:05 PM
When I saw SOA on their first US mini-run, I didn't notice Jeff drinking much maybe minus a cup or two on stage that wasn't distracting.  At the end of the set he talked about how it was the last show on their first run and they were all going to get wasted.  "Well, some of us don't drink but I'm going to get absolutely trashed," or something along those lines.  So yeah, the dude loves his alcohol but I hope it doesn't start to consume him.



I feel a little bad about this, but it's inevitable, in my opinion: while I much prefer LaBrie's vocals on record, and he's sung some of the most iconic lines in prog-metal history, live, I believe Soto schooled him.  I'd much rather listen to what I heard last night than some of the passages I've heard from LaBrie live. 


Yeah, but Soto has a much smaller range.  He didn't even take the high part on "Just close your mind you can find all you need with your eyes."  That song is a relatively easy one to sing when you get to stay in an easy range.

Let's hear him sing Metropolis or even Bridges in the Sky.  I doubt he'd school James then.  Same goes for Russel Allen.  I hear some people saying they wish he was in DT.  I doubt he could pull that stuff off very well and if he did, you'd be seeing many more off nights around those shows than JLB. 

So yeah, I'm a huge JLB defender but also keep in mind I was surprisingly impressed with Soto (minus his stupid stage moves).  I think he's pretty damn good at what he does but what he does at this point has nowhere near the range that James has even the James of today. There were even some of his own lines he had to modify due to range. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Architeuthis on May 21, 2018, 02:00:56 PM
That's a tough call.  I think both singers have their strong points. JLB and JSS are both great singers and frontman,  I can't really compare the two, but are both in the same league as far as I'm concerned.
JLB has always been one of my favorite all time singers, but JSS really impressed me after seeing him live..  :metal
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Stadler on May 21, 2018, 11:33:32 PM
Look I'm not going to argue any of that.  LaBrie is legendary in my mind.  I fell in love with DT because of him, back when I&W came out.  So I don't want to sound like I'm bagging on him too hard.  I just felt that there were zero moments in SoA where I was like "whoa, that was a clam", plus he was out there the entire time (for me that's not a minor thing).   Last time I saw LaBrie he had a couple moments and spent a fair amount of time playing solitaire behind the cabinets.   Again, observing not judging. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: goo-goo on May 22, 2018, 07:30:18 AM
Look I'm not going to argue any of that.  LaBrie is legendary in my mind.  I fell in love with DT because of him, back when I&W came out.  So I don't want to sound like I'm bagging on him too hard.  I just felt that there were zero moments in SoA where I was like "whoa, that was a clam", plus he was out there the entire time (for me that's not a minor thing).   Last time I saw LaBrie he had a couple moments and spent a fair amount of time playing solitaire behind the cabinets.   Again, observing not judging.

I have to agree with Stads here. JLB is the better singer imo, but Jeff engages with the crowd AND the band while playing instrumental passages. For me, the concert experience as a whole involves a lot of the energy given by the band, which SoA (I saw Steven Wilson last week and the energy between crowd/band was very stale to say the least). While I'm no fan of SoA's debut album, the live presentation of it is miles ahead of what was recorded in the studio. And Jeff and Bumblefoot's live presentation, playing/singing, and energy given off by them was the highlight for me when I saw them live in Orlando earlier in the year. And that added tons to my SoA concert experience...
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: MirrorMask on May 22, 2018, 07:36:03 AM
I think what works against James is also that DT's instrumental passages are both longer, and complex. There's only so much you can do on stage without singing, especially if the instrumental sections are not singalong-ish like, for example, Maiden's (Phantom of the Opera has a long solo section but a singer could use most of it to keep the crowd going), and if you don't play anything.... so James either plays the tamburine like he did in the FII days, just to have an excuse to remain on stage, or at a certain point he has to walk away.

Speaking of long solo sections, did Jeff remain on stage during God of the Sun and Labyrinth? and if he did, what did he do?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Stadler on May 22, 2018, 10:11:27 AM
I recall him on stage the whole time; he would move back (in between Mike and Derek) or go over to the guy NOT leading the shred and throw shapes.  I do not recall him leaving the stage but for the other members solo spots.   
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Evermind on May 22, 2018, 10:14:49 AM
I didn't listen to the album at all, not even once, because of Derek's and Mike's online behaviour (mostly Derek's), but reading all your reviews about the live show, I'm kinda torn now. I have a chance to see them in September, and I think I may eventually get the tickets.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: MirrorMask on May 22, 2018, 11:40:46 AM
I recall him on stage the whole time; he would move back (in between Mike and Derek) or go over to the guy NOT leading the shred and throw shapes.  I do not recall him leaving the stage but for the other members solo spots.

Ah ok. Guess I should find some videos to see how it looks.

I didn't listen to the album at all, not even once, because of Derek's and Mike's online behaviour (mostly Derek's), but reading all your reviews about the live show, I'm kinda torn now. I have a chance to see them in September, and I think I may eventually get the tickets.

Then wouldn't listening to the album be an option? they literally play all of that and some covers to round up the show.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Stadler on May 22, 2018, 01:03:05 PM
It's obviously the call of the listener, but other than Jeff introducing him as "Shit-stirinian", and Mike calling Jeff one of the "best frontmen in all of rock", there wasn't even one second of shade in that show.  If you knew nothing of the antics from six months ago, after the show you'd be none the wiser.   Just good, hard prog-rock played well.   Plus a mini-beard solo thrown in for good measure (Bumble did a little ten second hammer-on thing with his goatee which looked cool but you couldn't hear for shit).   
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Anxiety35 on May 22, 2018, 01:14:06 PM
Are they selling out the venues? I've read where many places are half full, but that doesn't mean it's that way for every venue. For those who went to see SOA, how were the crowds in terms of numbers?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: RodrigoAltaf on May 22, 2018, 02:10:23 PM
Are they selling out the venues? I've read where many places are half full, but that doesn't mean it's that way for every venue. For those who went to see SOA, how were the crowds in terms of numbers?

Toronto didn't sell out. I think it was 70% full.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: goo-goo on May 22, 2018, 02:32:39 PM
Are they selling out the venues? I've read where many places are half full, but that doesn't mean it's that way for every venue. For those who went to see SOA, how were the crowds in terms of numbers?

Toronto didn't sell out. I think it was 70% full.

Orlando was about the same (70%). However, they were selling a shitload of merch. Nothing was left when the show ended.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Lethean on May 22, 2018, 09:34:08 PM
Look I'm not going to argue any of that.  LaBrie is legendary in my mind.  I fell in love with DT because of him, back when I&W came out.  So I don't want to sound like I'm bagging on him too hard.  I just felt that there were zero moments in SoA where I was like "whoa, that was a clam", plus he was out there the entire time (for me that's not a minor thing).   Last time I saw LaBrie he had a couple moments and spent a fair amount of time playing solitaire behind the cabinets.   Again, observing not judging.

I'm not sure why there's an issue with that.  I think whatever works for the band works for me.  Maybe they can't win with that sort of thing.  You have an issue with James not being on stage.  I've seen a few shows where the singer did stay out of stage and people complained about him not getting out of the way - keeping the focus on himself instead of where it belongs (the guys who are playing).  I don't think he goes backstage because he can't be bothered to stay out - I think it just makes good sense for those long instrumental sections that DT has.  During those, you're often torn between watching JP or MM or JM or even Jordan when you can see him.  Why put one more person out there who isn't performing to distract from those who are?

As for JSS vs JLB, I've seen both, and like both.  My personal preference is JLB for a number of reasons.  But I really enjoyed JSS - I thought he sounded good and was very energetic (this was a solo show of his).  Maybe a bit over the top for my tastes, but since I didn't necessarily find the music all that appealing, the over the top personality probably helped to keep my attention.  Whereas if I'd been a big fan of his material, I'd probably have preferred him to tone it down just a little.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bosk1 on May 25, 2018, 04:25:09 PM
Yeah, that about sums it up for me too.  Seems kinda silly to say that one "schooled" the other.  I mean, the one time I had the privilege to share a stage with Jeff Scott Soto, I was told by several people in the crowd afterward that I schooled him, so take that for what it's worth.  :lol
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: The Walrus on May 25, 2018, 04:31:15 PM
Yeah, that about sums it up for me too.  Seems kinda silly to say that one "schooled" the other.  I mean, the one time I had the privilege to share a stage with Jeff Scott Soto, I was told by several people in the crowd afterward that I schooled him, so take that for what it's worth.  :lol

Did you by chance catch his stance on shopping carts?   :biggrin:
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bosk1 on May 25, 2018, 05:12:56 PM
No.  But based on what I know of his personality, I'm pretty sure he leaves them where he pleases and rightly expects his keyboard player to put them away for him so that he can move on to more important stuff.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: TAC on May 25, 2018, 05:31:17 PM
Yeah, that about sums it up for me too.  Seems kinda silly to say that one "schooled" the other.  I mean, the one time I had the privilege to share a stage with Jeff Scott Soto, I was told by several people in the crowd afterward that I schooled him, so take that for what it's worth.  :lol

You schooled him on packing an amp in a van, breaking down the drums, sweeping the floor...  ;D
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Madman Shepherd on May 26, 2018, 08:11:18 AM
No.  But based on what I know of his personality, I'm pretty sure he leaves them where he pleases and rightly expects his keyboard player to put them away for him so that he can move on to more important stuff.

Derek: Jeff, why did you get a shopping cart just to buy one iPad?  Why do you even need an ipad? You don't even play keyboards

Jeff: Why don't you stop asking questions and go return this shopping cart?

(Derek does as he's told)
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: rumborak on May 26, 2018, 09:21:08 AM
Are they selling out the venues? I've read where many places are half full, but that doesn't mean it's that way for every venue. For those who went to see SOA, how were the crowds in terms of numbers?

Toronto didn't sell out. I think it was 70% full.

Worcester maybe 50%. Tons of space everywhere, had no problems getting to front row.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on May 26, 2018, 05:46:08 PM
Are they selling out the venues? I've read where many places are half full, but that doesn't mean it's that way for every venue. For those who went to see SOA, how were the crowds in terms of numbers?

Toronto didn't sell out. I think it was 70% full.

Worcester maybe 50%. Tons of space everywhere, had no problems getting to front row.

NYC was probably around 50% as well.  No issues with getting close either or just picking your spot to watch. I think it was the least attended show I've seen at that venue.  The bartender made a similar comment to me about it when I brought it up.  Not trying to knock the band, they were great, but it was a poorly attended show for the venue.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Anxiety35 on May 26, 2018, 07:13:17 PM
If the shows are great, then why are they poorly attended? My comment is not a knock on the band or fans.

My reasoning and concern is that if people aren't coming out to the shows, could this band pack it in and call it a day? I'd love to have a sophomore release from them.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Madman Shepherd on May 26, 2018, 11:20:30 PM
When I saw them on their first mini run the show was pretty full and I was surprised.  I don't know how full because I'm not sure about the capacity of the place.  They have a balcony but people don't really watch from up there.  If I had to guess, excluding the balcony, it was 80-85% full.  Of course, that was before they announced their next leg so nobody including me if I ever thought if I'd get the chance to see them again.

Turns out one of their shows in Texas was canceled because not enough tickets were sold but it also seems like the promoter may have some issues.  No mention of that show on their facebook when you go back and look at past posts.  In fact, not much activity at all. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: MirrorMask on May 27, 2018, 02:58:46 AM
If the shows are great, then why are they poorly attended? My comment is not a knock on the band or fans.

Well, there's only so much word of mouth (or good YouTube videso) can do. They still have to come near someone, and that someone has to like them just enough to at least consider going, before being eventually swayed in favor because of good reviews.

I for example never was convinced to go to a show by good reviews, I've always seen what I wanted to see and skipped what didn't interest me enough.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: rumborak on May 27, 2018, 08:30:17 AM
I think the simple explanation is that the album just wasn't all that greatly received. The venue's attendees looked like people who would show up for any MP-related thing (Shirts saying Shattered Fortress, Winery Dogs etc), but outside of that group of people I don't think many went to see the show.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on May 27, 2018, 08:37:18 AM
Well, it's a new band in a genre of music that isn't terribly popular.  For NYC, it was just booked for a bigger venue.  They could have played where The Shattered Fortress show was which is almost half the size and the attendance would have been good.  These guys need exposure to build a fan base, relying just on their names isn't leading to sell outs.  Also, they didn't really bring along a solid opener to draw in some new fans, if it wasn't for this forum, I wouldn't of even knew there was an opener (or two).
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: SwedishGoose on May 27, 2018, 10:03:10 AM
I think the simple explanation is that the album just wasn't all that greatly received. The venue's attendees looked like people who would show up for any MP-related thing (Shirts saying Shattered Fortress, Winery Dogs etc), but outside of that group of people I don't think many went to see the show.

That's it..... I'm a Portnoy fanboy and if I like what he is involved in I will travel and book a hotel to see him as I did twice last year. Meal Morse Band and The Shattered Fortress in Malmö..

But if I don't like the album, like Psycotic Symphony, I will not go out of my way to see him even if he is playing in Stockholm. Would go if it aligned perfectly perhaps....
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Anxiety35 on May 28, 2018, 03:13:31 PM
Well, it's a new band in a genre of music that isn't terribly popular.  For NYC, it was just booked for a bigger venue.  They could have played where The Shattered Fortress show was which is almost half the size and the attendance would have been good.  These guys need exposure to build a fan base, relying just on their names isn't leading to sell outs.  Also, they didn't really bring along a solid opener to draw in some new fans, if it wasn't for this forum, I wouldn't of even knew there was an opener (or two).

Great post. The part I put in bold letters may have been something the guys were counting on.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: gzarruk on May 28, 2018, 04:54:54 PM
Well, it's a new band in a genre of music that isn't terribly popular.  For NYC, it was just booked for a bigger venue.  They could have played where The Shattered Fortress show was which is almost half the size and the attendance would have been good.  These guys need exposure to build a fan base, relying just on their names isn't leading to sell outs.  Also, they didn't really bring along a solid opener to draw in some new fans, if it wasn't for this forum, I wouldn't of even knew there was an opener (or two).

Great post. The part I put in bold letters may have been something the guys were counting on.

That’s because none of them, maybe except Bumblefoot with GnR, have been part of a big act in the last couple years. Derek’s last big gig was DT, and that’s saying something. Maybe Billy with Mr. Big, but the real “mr. big” there is Paul Gilbert. Don’t know what JSS was doing before this, but don’t think it was too big either. And Mike... well, he’s been playing with so many bands/people lately that he’s become “that” guy who will absolutely play with anynody just to mark a check on his list. This leads to an MP saturation on a market that isn’t too big to begin with. It’s probably the same group of MP fans that go out and see his many bands live, but nothing more than his usual reach.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on May 28, 2018, 05:07:21 PM
but nothing more than his usual reach.

Yea, that's essentially it.  This band didn't get out to much people besides the biggest fans of these guys and specifically MP.  I sent a picture from the SOA show to my friend who is a big GNR fan and was so happy for me to see Bumblefoot, he knew him from a pic (I didn't say who the band was) and yet he had no idea of SOA. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Stadler on May 28, 2018, 09:55:56 PM
Are they selling out the venues? I've read where many places are half full, but that doesn't mean it's that way for every venue. For those who went to see SOA, how were the crowds in terms of numbers?

Toronto didn't sell out. I think it was 70% full.

Worcester maybe 50%. Tons of space everywhere, had no problems getting to front row.

I can vouch for that.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Nick on May 29, 2018, 10:36:58 AM
Are they selling out the venues? I've read where many places are half full, but that doesn't mean it's that way for every venue. For those who went to see SOA, how were the crowds in terms of numbers?

Toronto didn't sell out. I think it was 70% full.

Worcester maybe 50%. Tons of space everywhere, had no problems getting to front row.

I can vouch for that.

I'm honestly just surprised about the front row part of that. Sure, SoA might not fill the place, but MP has a large following of hardcore fans so I'm surprised that you were able to snag a spot up front easily.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Stadler on May 29, 2018, 12:12:27 PM
I personally didn't push to the front row, but I was maybe three or four people from the barrier and if I wanted to, I could have been closer.   I know for me, I let a guy nose up in front of me and was still as close as I wanted to be. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: rumborak on May 29, 2018, 12:13:37 PM
Lol, now I wonder where you were standing, Stadler. Must have been a few feet away from me.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: King Postwhore on May 29, 2018, 12:24:12 PM
So you are telling me I was part of the other 50% Rumbo? :lol
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Stadler on May 29, 2018, 12:44:46 PM
Lol, now I wonder where you were standing, Stadler. Must have been a few feet away from me.

I was almost directly in front of Billy Sheehan.  I had on a blue shirt.  I was with a father and son who had seen Mike like 156 times or some such shit (there was a third guy in their group as well; I didn't know them but met them in line and just sort of hung with them like a mosquito) and right behind two guys that had cool shirts with the band logo of EVERY band Mike played with; apparently they had to get personal permission from him to make them (sounds odd to me; I'm not sure Mike has authority to let someone put the TS or A7X logos on shirts, but that's the lawyer in me talking) who were in the second row.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: radardude65 on July 01, 2018, 08:29:39 PM
I'd be more worried about Jay Jay French coming after me over the TS logo, he's cutthroat over their copyrights...

I enjoyed the album, it's my favorite post-DT project that Portnoy has done.

Traveled to Leipzig last Wednesday (US expat living near Frankfurt) to see them do a headline show (no opener either) cause I didn't want my first time to see them be at a festival gig. 

Guess on venue capacity is about 800-900. Maybe 400 there.  Plenty of room by FOH mix area. 

Whole album played plus the Prophet Song/Save Me vocal solo, both DT songs, Pink Panther theme.  They were late going on.  Don't know if that was the reason they didn't do Cradle Will Rock during the encore.   Only Coming Home was played for the encore. 

Overall the show was fantastic.  Mike and Derek were spot on not over the top. 

I'm a fan of Billy Sheehan (since Talas days)  and he never disappoints.  It was strange to hear his bass tone on the DT songs but it worked for me.  And he manages to use both the necks.  Just an amazing musician.

Jeff was great.  I thought his vocals on the album were too down in the weeds but that wasn't the case live.  I especially liked his singing on Lines In The Sand. He even emulated Dug Pinnick's voice for the parts he sang when the song was recorded.  No way LaBrie pulls that off today.  Jeff has a lot of depth and soul to his voice and I would like to hear him do some other DT tunes.   I think some of the DT/MP fanbase (by T-shirts in the crowd, it was about 40% MP projects shirts) isn't used to a singer drinking and headbanging the way Jeff does.  I didn't have an issue with it at all. 

Bumblefoot is a freak of nature.  If this project implodes I hope that he and Jeff work together again.  They have a good interaction together.  And his high harmonies really complimented Jeff's voice.  Bumblefoot is the one I was most interested in seeing to be honest.  I'd only seen him once before with Axl's GnR.  Anyone who plays a fretless guitar you have to respect lol. 

I see Sons Of Apollo as a straight up rock project with progressive overtones.  I think that's why it clicked with me more than any other MP band/project outside of DT.  If they drop any of the front three (Billy, Jeff or Ron) I don't think it would work for me. 

As to the half filled venues, I'll agree with the facts that it's probably a case of MP fatigue to a point.  The album mix could have been better.  The name can be an issue.  While they are pushing this as their priority this year (and maybe next), which is great since a lot of these projects never tour (I'm looking at you George Lynch...), the track record for MP is to go onto other things is he sees another shiny object in the corner.  Jeff has TSO that ties him up October thru the new year.  Billy might be free as I'm pretty sure Mr Big will be done other than one offs maybe after their run of European shows in August (it's gonna be strange seeing them without Pat Torpey).  If they really want to grow the band in today's music scene they need to tour.  Get a special guest slot with Maiden when they tour the US next year.  Do a package tour of clubs and theaters with some better known bands. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Architeuthis on July 02, 2018, 10:02:57 AM
Agreed with the previous post. Also write a hit song that could get some airplay. They need a Pull Me Under, Tom Sawyer, Don't Stop Believing, Or Roundabout type of song that puts them on the map.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bosk1 on July 02, 2018, 10:08:43 AM
Agreed with the previous post. Also write a hit song that could get some airplay. They need a Pull Me Under, Tom Sawyer, Don't Stop Believing, Or Roundabout type of song that puts them on the map.

I wouldn't count on seeing anything from them that achieves anywhere near that type of mainstream success or accessibility.  But they do need SOMETHING to get them noticed.  I don't think the empty venues are nearly as much about "MP fatigue" as much as the band simply not being on anyone's radar out in the mainstream.  People just don't know about this band.  They need to get noticed.  Personally, I think festivals and opening slots are their best bet.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Adami on July 02, 2018, 10:09:50 AM
Agreed with the previous post. Also write a hit song that could get some airplay. They need a Pull Me Under, Tom Sawyer, Don't Stop Believing, Or Roundabout type of song that puts them on the map.

Those songs were of their time. SoA is of about 15-20 years ago. A hit song just isn’t in their DNA. Best they can do is a song their core audience considers a hit. Which isn’t hard to do but doesn’t do much.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: DragonAttack on July 02, 2018, 04:13:28 PM
Just being honest.  When I saw this thread pop up after eons of noncomments, it was almost a 'Sons of who?'. 

Sadly, they are so off of my radar.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Schurftkut on July 02, 2018, 04:36:48 PM
They're performing close by enough for me to go see them. It was my birthday and my dad bought the vinyl soa album + cds for me, sealed. We went to  a store to exchange it for the Hand Cannot Erase vinyl. (they didn't have Trick of the tail) I like SOA as a live band, and so my dad also got me tickets to their gig in october :-)
 It's kinda funny to me i'm looking forward to seeing 3 other members of the band instead of MP, this being an MP related band.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ErHaO on July 05, 2018, 08:13:03 AM
Apparently Sons of Apollo had to cancel their show at Dynamo Metal Fest here due to personal issues (festival takes place july the 14th). Hope everything is alright/turns out alright. Source: https://www.facebook.com/dynamometalfest (https://www.facebook.com/dynamometalfest)

Shame, that festival had a great lineup at a low price (actually, it is still worth it from the looks of it, regardless of the replacement they find).
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bosk1 on July 05, 2018, 08:18:40 AM
Well, ANY festival exposure is probably good exposure.  But honestly, they didn't really fit in musically with that lineup, so I don't think it's a huge loss for them.  Hopefully, all is well and this isn't a sign of bigger problems.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ErHaO on July 05, 2018, 08:41:29 AM
I actually think they would fit in well. The lineup is: Ghost, Ministry, Annihilator, Overkill, Leprous (and some others). Seems like a good mixture of hard rock, prog, industrial, and some trash. Especially the combo of Sons of Apollo, Ghost, Leprous, and Annihilator seemed good to me. Sons of Apollo definitly shares elements, despite obvious differences in sound.

Obviously there is something amiss. Otherwise you don't cancel a good festival slot so short in advance, but I hope it is nothing serious or lasting. On the other hand, their other shows this week seem to be on track, so that is a good sign.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Train of Naught on July 05, 2018, 08:57:55 AM
Lol, even though I don't like this band, I was kind of looking forward to seeing them as the live shows seemed pretty cool. Hope they get a good replacement (people on the Facebook page are suggesting Ghost should extend their live set, but I dearly hope they won't because I can't stand most of their material), since I already have tickets and definitely not missing this.

Gotta admit though, the line-up for Dynamo is very weird, it's basically a bunch of thrash plus Ghost as a headliner (completely different) and now 1 prog band too (Leprous) that doesn't fit in with any of the bands. Wouldn't be surprised if I am among the hundred that are actually looking forward to Leprous the most. Also very hyped for Overkill though, and I've seen Annihilator last year and they have incredible energy.

But yeah, the most concerning for SoA fans is that this cancelation was on very short notice, so there has likely happened something pretty drastic within the band that caused them to cancel this festival.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ErHaO on July 05, 2018, 09:20:04 AM
Lol, even though I don't like this band, I was kind of looking forward to seeing them as the live shows seemed pretty cool. Hope they get a good replacement (people on the Facebook page are suggesting Ghost should extend their live set, but I dearly hope they won't because I can't stand most of their material), since I already have tickets and definitely not missing this.

Gotta admit though, the line-up for Dynamo is very weird, it's basically a bunch of thrash plus Ghost as a headliner (completely different) and now 1 prog band too (Leprous) that doesn't fit in with any of the bands. Wouldn't be surprised if I am among the hundred that are actually looking forward to Leprous the most. Also very hyped for Overkill though, and I've seen Annihilator last year and they have incredible energy.

But yeah, the most concerning for SoA fans is that this cancelation was on very short notice, so there has likely happened something pretty drastic within the band that caused them to cancel this festival.

Well, I do agree the lineup is a surprising mix (which to me is good). Looking at the lineup, Leprous is actually the one that sticks out the most to me, especially due to the vocals. And Ghost as well, which isn't even metal to my ears.

That said, diversity of a festival is actually the most desirable for a band like SoA in my opinion, as it exposes your music to people usually not focused on your scene. Fans of DT and other prog bands have likely had some form of exposure to SoA. Looking at YouTube, SoA videos did well. Coming Home is at 1.7 million views. And their other clips, Signs of the Time, Alive, and Lost in Oblivion all are around 500k. Compare that to "popular" newcomer Haken, for example. My point is, I think amongst prog metal fans, Sons of Apollo had good exposure. I could see Trash and especially Hard Rock fans digging Sons of Apollo's approach to Prog metal and the Dynamo crowd will likely mostly consist of those people. Which is why I argue that they fit in well with the lineup.



Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on July 05, 2018, 09:26:16 AM
Maybe JLB will fill in?  :biggrin:

Sucks they had to cancel, while the line up is mostly thrash, I do believe SOA fits in as it's not exclusively thrash (like Ghost and Leprous).  But that would give them a lot of exposure to new fans playing alongside those bands.  They won't win everyone over, but they had a good opportunity to get new fans.  Hope all is alright.

Must say I am actually pretty excited to see them again in September.  I still think about how good their NYC performance was a couple months ago.  I've seen so many bands since that just can't do what they do.  And this is coming from someone who rated the album a 7 and was very lukewarm up until seeing them with my own eyes.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: axeman90210 on July 05, 2018, 09:41:48 AM
Maybe JLB will fill in?  :biggrin:

Sucks they had to cancel, while the line up is mostly thrash, I do believe SOA fits in as it's not exclusively thrash (like Ghost and Leprous).  But that would give them a lot of exposure to new fans playing alongside those bands.  They won't win everyone over, but they had a good opportunity to get new fans.  Hope all is alright.

Must say I am actually pretty excited to see them again in September.  I still think about how good their NYC performance was a couple months ago.  I've seen so many bands since that just can't do what they do.  And this is coming from someone who rated the album a 7 and was very lukewarm up until seeing them with my own eyes.

Did they announce another run of US dates?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on July 05, 2018, 09:48:36 AM
Maybe JLB will fill in?  :biggrin:

Sucks they had to cancel, while the line up is mostly thrash, I do believe SOA fits in as it's not exclusively thrash (like Ghost and Leprous).  But that would give them a lot of exposure to new fans playing alongside those bands.  They won't win everyone over, but they had a good opportunity to get new fans.  Hope all is alright.

Must say I am actually pretty excited to see them again in September.  I still think about how good their NYC performance was a couple months ago.  I've seen so many bands since that just can't do what they do.  And this is coming from someone who rated the album a 7 and was very lukewarm up until seeing them with my own eyes.

Did they announce another run of US dates?

Nah, that's ProgPower, their only remaining US date on schedule.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: mikeyd23 on July 05, 2018, 09:53:00 AM
Maybe JLB will fill in?  :biggrin:

 :lol Now that...would be hilarious.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Adami on July 06, 2018, 05:55:37 AM
Maybe JLB will fill in?  :biggrin:

 :lol Now that...would be hilarious.

It would but it seems VUUR will replace them.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: MirrorMask on July 06, 2018, 05:56:39 AM
Excellent choice then! Anneke  :metal
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on July 06, 2018, 07:13:04 AM
VUUR is great, another prog metal band that debut the same time as SOA
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: AngelBack on July 30, 2018, 12:40:18 PM
All remaining summer tour dates cancelled? 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Stadler on July 30, 2018, 12:47:09 PM
Do we know why?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on July 30, 2018, 12:47:29 PM
wtf is going on, missing out on Wacken is pretty bad for a band that could really use that exposure.  They did add more dates in October so it's not like they are calling it quits or something, but something must have happened to cancel so many shows and something more than "Due to unforeseen circumstances beyond our control" would be nice to know.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: The Walrus on July 30, 2018, 01:35:00 PM
Is Neal Morse going into the studio? How funny would it be if they were cancelled because Mike is in the studio with another group... lol
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: MinistroRaven on July 30, 2018, 01:39:27 PM
Is Neal Morse going into the studio? How funny would it be if they were cancelled because Mike is in the studio with another group... lol

They were supposed to reconvene in LJuly so, probably
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Stadler on July 30, 2018, 02:13:27 PM
"Low ticket sales" qualify as "unforeseen circumstances beyond our control", don't they? 

:)
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: kaos2900 on July 30, 2018, 02:20:00 PM
Oh boy. Maybe passport issues or personnel issues? Considering the drama surrounding this band I think it would be in their best interests to be as transparent as possible.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: The Walrus on July 30, 2018, 02:22:03 PM
ProgPower confirmed to me they're still playing that
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on July 30, 2018, 02:27:17 PM
"Low ticket sales" qualify as "unforeseen circumstances beyond our control", don't they? 

:)

That could qualify, but these are festival appearances including Wacken, the biggest of them all, I don't think the ticket sales matter for these shows at least in the case for cancelling one bands performance.  I'm more likely to think a scheduling conflict with a member, or an illness, but I feel if it was an illness they usually say so because people are more understanding to that (cough avenged sevenfold cough)
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ErHaO on July 30, 2018, 03:00:32 PM
Yeah, I wonder what is up? They immediately added new dates for further along the year, which at least indicates they have the intention to keep going. And them cancelling festival appearances suggest it is not due to sales, as that wouldn't make sense? (Dynamo, Wacken, Prog in Park)
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: The Walrus on July 30, 2018, 03:03:59 PM
A little birdy told me Max has left Next To None to focus on Tallah full time and he will be replaced by Mike Portnoy.  :metal
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Nekov on July 31, 2018, 06:02:31 AM
What the hell? The kid just started and he already has another band?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: TAC on July 31, 2018, 06:06:34 AM
What the hell? The kid just started and he already has another band?

Runs in the family.














I am just kidding.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on July 31, 2018, 07:21:13 AM
 :lol

JSS tweeted that no one is ill and nothing is wrong, but didn't give an explanation.  Oh well. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Adami on July 31, 2018, 07:22:04 AM
I get most of my news from Blabbermouth cause I'm lazy, but didn't see anything on this.

What's going on?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: gzarruk on July 31, 2018, 08:54:01 AM
I bet “unforseen circumstances beyond our control” means “Mike has other 87 bands to worry about”.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: goo-goo on July 31, 2018, 09:32:58 AM
Well, there were a couple of unfortunate events during the SoA tour...One, Jeff lost his brother during the tour. And two, he also got sick pretty badly with a throat infection. Maybe he just needed a big emotional rest. But that's just my opinion. I don't know exactly what circumstances caused the cancellation of the remaining tour dates.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Architeuthis on July 31, 2018, 11:40:54 AM
Sad to hear that bad circumstances came up.  I read a couple months ago that they were gonna film a show in Europe for a live dvd. Does anybody know if that happened before all this went down?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on July 31, 2018, 11:41:37 AM
Sad to hear that bad circumstances came up.  I read a couple months ago that they were gonna film a show in Europe for a live dvd. Does anybody know if that happened before all this went down?

The show in Plovdiv is still listed on their tour schedule for this fall
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Skeever on July 31, 2018, 11:52:57 AM
"Low ticket sales" qualify as "unforeseen circumstances beyond our control", don't they? 

:)

This was my first thought. If they were more of a true "start-up" band, they'd be doing fine. But look at those rigs they take with them, the gear, the caliber of the players in the band... everything about the band is supposed to be BIG. That's a whole lot of chandeliers for such a tiny house.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Ben_Jamin on July 31, 2018, 01:26:46 PM
"Low ticket sales" qualify as "unforeseen circumstances beyond our control", don't they? 

:)

This was my first thought. If they were more of a true "start-up" band, they'd be doing fine. But look at those rigs they take with them, the gear, the caliber of the players in the band... everything about the band is supposed to be BIG. That's a whole lot of chandeliers for such a tiny house.

I feel the venues overbooked the bands capabilities.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Schurftkut on August 01, 2018, 02:16:11 AM
they only cancelled festival dates, so no ticketsale problems.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: MinistroRaven on August 01, 2018, 01:13:22 PM
MP just posted this:

Quote
All rest and no work makes MP a dull boy!! Off to Nashville today to resume work with the NMB on our follow up to The Similitude Of A Dream...that’s a tall order, but I know with the talent in this band we’re gonna come up with something magical again... 😉 #nealmorseband
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Madman Shepherd on August 01, 2018, 01:47:21 PM
Unforeseen circumstances meaning they didn't know Neal was going to want to start writing/recording or unforeseen circumstances meaning Mike didn't know he wouldn't want to miss a single day writing/recording?

Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: MirrorMask on August 01, 2018, 01:59:56 PM
Well, they RESUME work, so it might be something like "Uh well, gigs got cancelled, we might as well work on the album instead"
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: TAC on August 01, 2018, 02:04:25 PM
Unforeseen circumstances meaning they didn't know Neal was going to want to start writing/recording or unforeseen circumstances meaning Mike didn't know he wouldn't want to miss a single day writing/recording?

That can't be it, can it?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on August 01, 2018, 02:26:58 PM
Well, they RESUME work, so it might be something like "Uh well, gigs got cancelled, we might as well work on the album instead"

I take it more that the RESUME means they didn't foresee needing more studio time and therefore cancelled the gigs so they could make more time in the studio.  I'm guessing there are deadlines and they couldn't make both work. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: KevShmev on August 01, 2018, 06:41:05 PM
Well, they RESUME work, so it might be something like "Uh well, gigs got cancelled, we might as well work on the album instead"

That would be my guess.  And the rest of the Neal Morse Band sans Portnoy probably already had a lot of August penciled in anyway to get ready for Morsefest, so getting the band together this month was probably easy, once Portnoy suddenly had free time on his hands due to these cancelled gigs for whatever reason.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Stadler on August 01, 2018, 09:11:03 PM
I'm skeptical.  Billy, Derek, Jeff and Ron are not industry novices, and are not in 100 other bands too.  Those cancelled shows are taking money out of their pocket.  While I am loathe to speculate or assume that they feel a certain way about band events, I'm skeptical.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: KevShmev on August 01, 2018, 09:18:02 PM
Well, considering that Portnoy prides himself on "telling it like it is" and keeping his fans up to date as to what is going on, I would expect him to not take long to tell fans what these unforeseen circumstances are. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: The Walrus on August 01, 2018, 09:20:27 PM
called it last week
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Madman Shepherd on August 01, 2018, 10:25:04 PM
Well, considering that Portnoy prides himself on "telling it like it is" and keeping his fans up to date as to what is going on, I would expect him to not take long to tell fans what these unforeseen circumstances are.

 :lol

Yup. Any minute/day/never now.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ReaperKK on August 02, 2018, 05:01:14 AM
the unforeseen circumstances are that might remembered he is also in 86 other bands aside from SoA
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: TAC on August 02, 2018, 05:59:29 AM
I'm skeptical.  Billy, Derek, Jeff and Ron are not industry novices, and are not in 100 other bands too.  Those cancelled shows are taking money out of their pocket. While I am loathe to speculate or assume that they feel a certain way about band events, I'm skeptical.

I agree. I actually was thinking the same thing. That's why I'd be shocked if this was due to MP doing the Morse thing.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on August 02, 2018, 06:22:14 AM
I'm skeptical.  Billy, Derek, Jeff and Ron are not industry novices, and are not in 100 other bands too.  Those cancelled shows are taking money out of their pocket. While I am loathe to speculate or assume that they feel a certain way about band events, I'm skeptical.

I agree. I actually was thinking the same thing. That's why I'd be shocked if this was due to MP doing the Morse thing.

Yea, I feel that would be pretty bad to do so to your bandmates.... but at least not Billy.  Mr. Big is playing Wacken (same festival SOA cancelled) this weekend.  I was also wondering if that was a conflict, but I would of been sure Wacken wouldn't schedule both bands at the same time at such a festival.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Destiny Of Chaos on August 02, 2018, 06:36:53 AM
Don't pull any muscles jumping to conclusions!
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Stadler on August 03, 2018, 09:47:53 AM
Don't pull any muscles jumping to conclusions!

Can't speak for anyone else, but didn't conclude anything.  Just said "skeptical".   If you know something, do tell, but as a pretty avid Portnoy supporter, I don't think anyone went out of bounds on this. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Anxiety35 on August 03, 2018, 10:26:50 AM
I'm thinking SOA may be a one and done deal. It has some traction, but I don't believe it took off like they were thinking it would and it doesn't seem to be growing. I hope I'm wrong as I'd like to see a sophomore release.

However, I remember listening to interviews and reading interviews where it was said that 2018 would be dedicated to SOA. Now we have MP in the studio with another band in August. It's interesting. As a musician in today's business, you go where the work is. The more work, the more $$ you make and the less time you spend having to work a day job. I know MP is in a different category as he's not doing this just because he needs to avoid having a day job. He and Neal are close and like MP said in his Instagram post, it's the 19th or 20th record he's done with Neal. 

Not bashing MP. I'm sure the NMB studio time was scheduled long ago. Shoot, with those guys, they could probably record drum tracks in 1 week and MP be outta there. The timing for all of this is interesting, that's all.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: TAC on August 03, 2018, 10:31:34 AM
Honestly it could be that one of the members has a personal issue that they don’t want out in the public. The reason given was so ambiguous. MP has never shied away from being up front.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Grappler on August 03, 2018, 10:35:41 AM
Honestly it could be that one of the members has a personal issue that they don’t want out in the public. The reason given was so ambiguous. MP has never shied away from being up front.

I think this is exactly it.  From what I saw, they cancelled two(?) festival gigs and re-booked some others for later on in the year.  It's not a big deal.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Stadler on August 03, 2018, 10:37:07 AM
I recognize that speculating about someone's finances is questionable, perhaps even rude.    But, I'll leave it at this:  I am FASCINATED by how musicians/athletes/any non-9/5er makes their living work, and Mike is no exception.   I don't believe it would surprise anyone if the last eight years have been as consistent as the 25 that came before.   

I'm not suggesting that any of this is related to the cancellations - TAC may well be right, given that at least two of the members have had personal health issues that they've dealt with in the past - but still.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: The Walrus on August 03, 2018, 10:39:48 AM
Mike will be out of this group by no later than mid 2019, I'm calling it now.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Dublagent66 on August 03, 2018, 11:24:24 AM
I gave it a 7.  Some pretty solid work here.  :tup
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Madman Shepherd on August 03, 2018, 11:55:30 AM
Honestly it could be that one of the members has a personal issue that they don’t want out in the public. The reason given was so ambiguous. MP has never shied away from being up front.

Correction: He's never shied away from claiming he's being up front. 

As it stands, I have a love/hate relationship with this band.  I want to like it so much.  I do like aspects of it a lot.  They haven't given me much reason to like more and I don't really think Mike's heart is into it.  It's sad because I really grew to love Soto (sans his stage moves) and Sherinian (minus the crap he spewed but has thankfully stopped) and they seem to have the most invested personally.  Thal seems to be into it though maybe not as much as the other two.

Sadly, I think it may be one and done.  Would love to be wrong though. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Stadler on August 03, 2018, 12:30:15 PM
It's not really clicking with me.  I like the record - like, not love - and I liked the concert - liked, not loved - and while I really like Jeff, he can really sing, and I don't give a crap at all about the "stage moves", I just feel he's not right for the group.    Paul McCartney is the greatest living musician right now, but he wouldn't be right for, say, Slayer.  It's not a knock on Jeff at all to say that having four and a half instruments - guitar, keys, vocals, bass, and half drums - all occupying that middle register makes for a very homogenous experience FOR ME.   I like the contrast.  I like the soaring Freddie Mercury/James LaBrie vocal over the mid-range of the guitars and keys, while hearing the rumble of the bass at the bottom.  It's what I love about Yes. It's what I love about Genesis.  It's what I love about Rush.  It's what I love about Cheap Trick.  It's what's missing for me in SOA. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on August 03, 2018, 12:38:36 PM
To me the band was all about Bumblefoot and JSS from seeing it live.  Those guys had some chemestry together and it seemed like everyone else were the role players.  Also seems like those are the two drinkers and the rest having different lifestyles could be a reason why they don't continue as well.  Would love to see JSS and BF continue doing something though because they were fantastic on stage together.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Stadler on August 03, 2018, 12:49:54 PM
To me the band was all about Bumblefoot and JSS from seeing it live.  Those guys had some chemestry together and it seemed like everyone else were the role players.  Also seems like those are the two drinkers and the rest having different lifestyles could be a reason why they don't continue as well.  Would love to see JSS and BF continue doing something though because they were fantastic on stage together.

That Queen medley, eh?   
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on August 03, 2018, 12:55:48 PM
That was pretty cool, I honestly loved them on Just Let Me Breathe.  I don't know why, maybe because I've never seen DT play it, but they brought so much energy to that song and I rewatch the instrumental part often in my video.  Love how JSS is interacting with everyone while they solo and do their thing.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: rumborak on August 03, 2018, 01:06:48 PM
I must say, I thought the cover selection was kinda weird. Two DT covers and two Queen covers. I don't know, to me it sorta "denigrated" the band a bit, because they were just so inviting the comparison with DT, and the Queen part felt like Soto almost putting more effort into the delivery of those songs than into their own. I can definitely say I felt a "are they a real band, or more a cover band with originals?" feeling during the concert.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on August 03, 2018, 01:10:00 PM
But they played every original song they had so I don't know how you can think that.

Maybe the argument could be made that they should have played a shorter set with a solid opener or been an opener for another band so it didn't come off as a playing too many cover songs.  And don't forget the VH cover as well.  I do think it was odd though to go after DT the way they did and then not only perform two of their songs, but to end the set with one. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: rumborak on August 03, 2018, 01:21:25 PM
I don't really fault them for playing a lot of cover songs, that's what every new band has to do when they only have one album's worth of material. It's more the choice of cover songs: two DT songs, and two Queen songs. In the world of cover-able songs out there, I would say that they could have found other songs than two ex-band songs, and then two songs from the same band.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on August 03, 2018, 01:28:20 PM
Well the two queen songs was closer to one medley of two songs done mostly as a solo spot by the singer since everyone got a solo spot on that show.  Still agree about doing two DT songs as much as I thought they did both really well.

And let's not forget they are doing a full set of cover songs at Plovdiv.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Madman Shepherd on August 03, 2018, 04:51:07 PM
I actually think they should have done more (and different) DT covers.  As annoying as Derek was in the buildup to the band, his holier than though attitude could have actually had a point if they were saying, "Yo, you think today's Dream Theater can play their own songs as good as THIS?" and then pull out A Change of Seasons or Raise the Knife. 

Some of you are saying that would have denigrated them and I can see that but for me, it would have got me to make an effort to see them the second time they came through.  Since it was essentially the same set as the first mini leg I had no interest and thus my interest in the band has really diminished. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Trav86 on August 11, 2018, 01:10:59 PM
After being on a Falling Into Infinity and Derek solo kick, I’m finally starting to get into this album.  Derek’s sound isn’t that diverse, but it’s his. And when it’s good, it’s really good.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: MirrorMask on August 11, 2018, 04:49:11 PM
I actually think they should have done more (and different) DT covers.  As annoying as Derek was in the buildup to the band, his holier than though attitude could have actually had a point if they were saying, "Yo, you think today's Dream Theater can play their own songs as good as THIS?" and then pull out A Change of Seasons or Raise the Knife. 

Some of you are saying that would have denigrated them and I can see that but for me, it would have got me to make an effort to see them the second time they came through.  Since it was essentially the same set as the first mini leg I had no interest and thus my interest in the band has really diminished.

A Change of Seasons would have been too much of a show stealer, but Raise the Knife would have been a great choice.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: RodrigoAltaf on August 12, 2018, 05:31:25 AM
I agree that Raise the Knife would have been great, but DT were playing it during the Images and Words and Beyond tour, so that's probably why SOA didn't pay it. Cover My Eyes would have been nice, but that was a Petrucci song, from what I remember...
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: gzarruk on August 12, 2018, 06:26:05 AM
I agree that Raise the Knife would have been great, but DT were playing it during the Images and Words and Beyond tour, so that's probably why SOA didn't pay it. Cover My Eyes would have been nice, but that was a Petrucci song, from what I remember...

They played ACOS, not RTK.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: RodrigoAltaf on August 12, 2018, 02:29:30 PM
I agree that Raise the Knife would have been great, but DT were playing it during the Images and Words and Beyond tour, so that's probably why SOA didn't pay it. Cover My Eyes would have been nice, but that was a Petrucci song, from what I remember...

They played ACOS, not RTK.

You're right! I had Hell's kitchen in mind...my bad!
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Dublagent66 on August 22, 2018, 02:28:53 PM
I like this album more than any of the Adrenaline Mob stuff.  Looking forward to more SoA.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Tick on August 22, 2018, 03:01:49 PM
The album has grown on me a bit, and I finally realize what is its weakest link is. Its Jeff Soto. He just totally underwhelms me. And its not that he's bad, he just sounds generic and a bit boring. Also, you don't have to punctuate so many lines in so many of the songs with, "YEAH!" It's a bit silly.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Madman Shepherd on August 22, 2018, 03:05:35 PM
I agree that Raise the Knife would have been great, but DT were playing it during the Images and Words and Beyond tour, so that's probably why SOA didn't pay it. Cover My Eyes would have been nice, but that was a Petrucci song, from what I remember...

They played ACOS, not RTK.

You're right! I had Hell's kitchen in mind...my bad!

I wouldn't have cared if they played the exact same songs.  SoA should make the best setlist they can no matter who played what, when, etc.  I find it kind of weird Mike is so obsessed with not doing what DT is doing (like him and Neal Morse getting into a fight about SoaD).  I get it that some fans will complain about anything but nobody gave a shit that DT and Neal Morse did concept double albums around the same time and if they did, they can deal with it. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bosk1 on August 22, 2018, 03:32:23 PM
I don't think it is weird at all.  I mean, I think he DOES get too much inside his own head at times.  His paranoia about Similitude being a double concept album ultimately didn't matter.  But at the same time, I completely get where he is coming from on that.  Same with the issue of playing the same songs.  I don't think it's that hard to understand.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Architeuthis on August 22, 2018, 10:01:53 PM
Wait, Mike and Neal got into a fight over SOAD? Why, it's a fantastic record!
 I doubt they were trying to One-up DT with that record. SOAD and TA are both awesome in their own way.
 The only way they may have one-upped DT is that they managed to capture SOAD live (on two different occasions, Tilburg and Morsefest) for a dvd release,, and it is a darn good one (Tilburg) at that!  Morsefest 2017 Will be released soon. There is no TA live release.. shrug.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: gzarruk on August 22, 2018, 10:54:54 PM
Wait, Mike and Neal got into a fight over SOAD? Why, it's a fantastic record!

Apparently, Mike strongly opposed the idea of making TSOAD a double album because DT had just released a double concept album. He was more focused on not doing something similar to what DT was doing, instead of doing what was best for their new album. In the end Neal got it his way (it's the NMB, not the MPB after all...) and we got two amazing double concept albums the same year :metal
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Destiny Of Chaos on August 22, 2018, 11:10:18 PM
I watched Portnoy's video where he's listening to the entire SoaD album....he says you could hear the anger/frustration of this argument in his playing on Slave to Your Mind...and he isn't kidding. One of my  favorite MP songs.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Stadler on August 23, 2018, 06:49:15 AM
Wait, Mike and Neal got into a fight over SOAD? Why, it's a fantastic record!

Apparently, Mike strongly opposed the idea of making TSOAD a double album because DT had just released a double concept album. He was more focused on not doing something similar to what DT was doing, instead of doing what was best for their new album. In the end Neal got it his way (it's the NMB, not the MPB after all...) and we got two amazing double concept albums the same year :metal

TSOAD, got it, but what's the other one?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: goo-goo on August 23, 2018, 07:53:27 AM
Wait, Mike and Neal got into a fight over SOAD? Why, it's a fantastic record!

Apparently, Mike strongly opposed the idea of making TSOAD a double album because DT had just released a double concept album. He was more focused on not doing something similar to what DT was doing, instead of doing what was best for their new album. In the end Neal got it his way (it's the NMB, not the MPB after all...) and we got two amazing double concept albums the same year :metal

TSOAD, got it, but what's the other one?

DT's The Astonishing. That's what MP was referring to when Neal was working on Similitude.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Evermind on August 23, 2018, 07:54:31 AM
Wait, Mike and Neal got into a fight over SOAD? Why, it's a fantastic record!

Apparently, Mike strongly opposed the idea of making TSOAD a double album because DT had just released a double concept album. He was more focused on not doing something similar to what DT was doing, instead of doing what was best for their new album. In the end Neal got it his way (it's the NMB, not the MPB after all...) and we got two amazing double concept albums the same year :metal

TSOAD, got it, but what's the other one?

:clap:
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Stadler on August 23, 2018, 08:06:20 AM
Wait, Mike and Neal got into a fight over SOAD? Why, it's a fantastic record!

Apparently, Mike strongly opposed the idea of making TSOAD a double album because DT had just released a double concept album. He was more focused on not doing something similar to what DT was doing, instead of doing what was best for their new album. In the end Neal got it his way (it's the NMB, not the MPB after all...) and we got two amazing double concept albums the same year :metal

TSOAD, got it, but what's the other one?

DT's The Astonishing. That's what MP was referring to when Neal was working on Similitude.

Um, yeah.   So call me Penn (or Teller), but here's what went on:  someone made a reference to TSOAD, then referred to DT.  Then they said "two amazing double concept albums in the same year" and I, not at all thinking that "The Astonishing" was amazing, or even decent, playfully asked, knowing full well what was being said, "what was the other one?".   The implication was that there's no possible way the poster could have intended to include "The Astonishing" as "amazing".   

TL;DR:  I know; it was a joke. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Evermind on August 23, 2018, 08:11:13 AM
Well that's an r/woosh worthy-thing.

I thought it was pretty funny, for what it's worth. :)
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Madman Shepherd on August 23, 2018, 04:44:07 PM
I don't think it is weird at all.  I mean, I think he DOES get too much inside his own head at times.  His paranoia about Similitude being a double concept album ultimately didn't matter.  But at the same time, I completely get where he is coming from on that.  Same with the issue of playing the same songs.  I don't think it's that hard to understand.

That's kind of a weird reply.  I did say I understood but that he shouldn't care about what a small portion of fans complain about since it ended up not mattering at all for Similitude.  I didn't think *that* was hard to understand.
Wait, Mike and Neal got into a fight over SOAD? Why, it's a fantastic record!

Apparently, Mike strongly opposed the idea of making TSOAD a double album because DT had just released a double concept album. He was more focused on not doing something similar to what DT was doing, instead of doing what was best for their new album. In the end Neal got it his way (it's the NMB, not the MPB after all...) and we got two amazing double concept albums the same year :metal

I think the "making of" is on youtube.  I sort of remember watching it.  Not because I like the Neal Morse Band, because I don't in the slightest, but because I'm a sucker for almost any "making of"

I think after the "fight" they kind of stopped filming the behind the scenes stuff to just focus on the album because it kind of shook them both up since they barely ever have disagreements.  Interesting dynamic. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bosk1 on August 23, 2018, 05:09:16 PM
I don't think it is weird at all.  I mean, I think he DOES get too much inside his own head at times.  His paranoia about Similitude being a double concept album ultimately didn't matter.  But at the same time, I completely get where he is coming from on that.  Same with the issue of playing the same songs.  I don't think it's that hard to understand.

That's kind of a weird reply.  I did say I understood but that he shouldn't care about what a small portion of fans complain about since it ended up not mattering at all for Similitude.  I didn't think *that* was hard to understand.

Okay.  :dunno:  I didn't get that from your post. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ? on August 24, 2018, 09:38:40 AM
Have they held that fan poll that was supposed to determine which cover songs they'll play at the Plovdiv show yet?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Evermind on August 24, 2018, 09:48:45 AM
Have they held that fan poll that was supposed to determine which cover songs they'll play at the Plovdiv show yet?

I saw MP saying that they scrapped this idea and he chose the cover songs himself instead.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on August 24, 2018, 10:17:56 AM
Have they held that fan poll that was supposed to determine which cover songs they'll play at the Plovdiv show yet?

I saw MP saying that they scrapped this idea and he chose the cover songs himself instead.

That kind of sucks.  Since it's just covers, would have been cool to see the options.  Really hoping they pull out some new covers at PP in a couple weeks.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Stadler on August 24, 2018, 10:46:12 AM
Well, the top three vote getters when he shut the poll down were:

"Shut Up And Play Yer Guitar"
"Sailing On The Seas Of Cheese"
"Our New World"
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Madman Shepherd on August 24, 2018, 11:58:22 AM
Well, the top three vote getters when he shut the poll down were:

"Shut Up And Play Yer Guitar"
"Sailing On The Seas Of Cheese"
"Our New World"

 :rollin
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on August 24, 2018, 12:03:29 PM
 :lol
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ReaperKK on August 24, 2018, 02:39:43 PM
That’s hilarious
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Ben_Jamin on August 24, 2018, 02:44:39 PM
Hahaha...what did he expect making it an open poll. He should've made a list.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: IDontNotDoThings on August 24, 2018, 10:32:55 PM
Hahaha...what did he expect making it an open poll. He should've made a list.

Yeah, open polls never turn out well, just ask 4ch :loser:
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: King Puppies and the Acid Guppies on August 24, 2018, 10:48:22 PM
Well, the top three vote getters when he shut the poll down were:

"Shut Up And Play Yer Guitar"
"Sailing On The Seas Of Cheese"
"Our New World"
:neverusethis: LoL
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: RodrigoAltaf on August 24, 2018, 11:03:07 PM
Well, the top three vote getters when he shut the poll down were:

"Shut Up And Play Yer Guitar"
"Sailing On The Seas Of Cheese"
"Our New World"
:neverusethis: LoL
Is that true?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Cool Chris on August 25, 2018, 12:00:04 AM
1) Wait for Sleep
2) Vacant
3) Far From Heaven
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: KevShmev on August 25, 2018, 07:13:40 AM
Hahaha...what did he expect making it an open poll. He should've made a list.

He probably thought the "haters" would troll the poll with DT songs from the last three albums...and let's face it, they probably would have. :lol :lol
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ? on August 25, 2018, 02:58:54 PM
Have they held that fan poll that was supposed to determine which cover songs they'll play at the Plovdiv show yet?

I saw MP saying that they scrapped this idea and he chose the cover songs himself instead.
Ah, fair enough.
Well, the top three vote getters when he shut the poll down were:

"Shut Up And Play Yer Guitar"
"Sailing On The Seas Of Cheese"
"Our New World"
:clap:
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: jadiggerdt on September 07, 2018, 03:16:12 AM
The probability that this band will also be history is quite large, should they continue, more development is required and much is too boring. I guess this will die out.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on September 15, 2018, 11:12:56 AM
JSS saying they will record album #2 in 2019

https://www.blabbermouth.net/news/jeff-scott-soto-says-sons-of-apollo-will-record-sophomore-album-in-2019/ (https://www.blabbermouth.net/news/jeff-scott-soto-says-sons-of-apollo-will-record-sophomore-album-in-2019/)

I really like this quote from him though, he recognizes it's not just about the names but they got to put it all together.  Maybe they can make that leap with the next album.  I think they won over a lot of people at ProgPower.

Quote
On the extent to which he thinks the resumes of SONS OF APOLLO's members helped the group's cause:

Jeff: "You'd be surprised how light some of the turnouts were in certain cities or certain territories. The expectation is that because of where everybody comes from, we're just going to bring hordes of people together, but as a band, we don't have that. We don't have that level of acceptance as a band just yet. We have our people — Mike has his, everybody's got theirs — but they don't necessarily come together for the band just because of that individual or those individuals. We might have the advantage of having a few more people there than if it was just myself with unknown members out there, but the bottom line is that we're still out there and we're still kicking and fighting and getting our own niche... The bottom line is, this is the path we chose; this is what we want to do; so you have to take the good with the bad, and if it means you have to eat crow for a while, you do so, because that's the only way to show people you're serious."
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: gzarruk on September 15, 2018, 11:33:48 AM
Very interesting quote. I wonder if the rest of the members think the same way...
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Cool Chris on September 15, 2018, 11:36:45 AM
The new kings of prog/metal or whatever they were supposed to be are getting their own niche?? That was a great paragraph, not at all like the standard SoA PR statements of the past.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Fritzinger on September 16, 2018, 02:33:47 AM
The new kings of prog/metal or whatever they were supposed to be are getting their own niche?? That was a great paragraph, not at all like the standard SoA PR statements of the past.

That's because it didn't come from Mike "Cojones" Portnoy and Derek "Burgers" Sherinian.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: MirrorMask on September 16, 2018, 03:15:23 AM
JSS saying they will record album #2 in 2019

https://www.blabbermouth.net/news/jeff-scott-soto-says-sons-of-apollo-will-record-sophomore-album-in-2019/ (https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/news/jeff-scott-soto-says-sons-of-apollo-will-record-sophomore-album-in-2019/)

I really like this quote from him though, he recognizes it's not just about the names but they got to put it all together.  Maybe they can make that leap with the next album.  I think they won over a lot of people at ProgPower.

Quote
On the extent to which he thinks the resumes of SONS OF APOLLO's members helped the group's cause:

Jeff: "You'd be surprised how light some of the turnouts were in certain cities or certain territories. The expectation is that because of where everybody comes from, we're just going to bring hordes of people together, but as a band, we don't have that. We don't have that level of acceptance as a band just yet. We have our people — Mike has his, everybody's got theirs — but they don't necessarily come together for the band just because of that individual or those individuals. We might have the advantage of having a few more people there than if it was just myself with unknown members out there, but the bottom line is that we're still out there and we're still kicking and fighting and getting our own niche... The bottom line is, this is the path we chose; this is what we want to do; so you have to take the good with the bad, and if it means you have to eat crow for a while, you do so, because that's the only way to show people you're serious."

Another proof of how they should let him handle all the press next time.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Orbert on September 16, 2018, 11:17:38 AM
Yep.  There's bluster and boasting and slamming others, then there's just being rational and realistic about things.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ErHaO on September 16, 2018, 04:25:57 PM
Yeah, they should let Jeff handle the PR next time. Portnoy just needs to focus on his enthusiasm and positive messages, and not engage in "discussions" with critical fans. Derek needs to refrain from talking to anyone online in any capacity in regards to this band.

I am looking forward to their new music. If they can improve on some of the lacking elements of their debut, it might be a genuine winner.

Also, their special concert set to be recorded will be in a couple of days, right? Interested to see what their setlist will be.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: gzarruk on September 17, 2018, 07:19:53 PM
I've been very critical of Mike's social media posts about DT in the last 7-8 years, but credit where credit is due, he acted the right way this time and I think it deserves to be posted here:

Ultimate Guitar posted on twitter that the upcoming SOA show in Russia is being advertised as "More than/bigger than Dream Theater", to which Mike responded:

Quote
This was a VERY lame bullshit move by the promoter of the show in Russia...unfortunately as much as we try to control what and how the shows are advertised, it’s ultimately in their hands...he’s gonna get an earful from me...this was totally uncool and uncalled for

https://twitter.com/MikePortnoy/status/1041657848135077888
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: TAC on September 17, 2018, 07:21:03 PM
Good for Mike. He should've taken the same tact with Derek.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: The Walrus on September 17, 2018, 07:43:18 PM
Exactly. Like, cool that he's on that, but where was he when Derek was talking mad shit about Jordan and Dream Theater constantly? Didn't care much about it before he was playing tiny backwater clubs, playing covers of a band he chose to leave.  :facepalm:
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ProfessorPeart on September 17, 2018, 08:16:37 PM
How do we know that he didn't handle Derek privately? Derek has been quiet for some time now. He just stopped talking smack entirely.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: The Walrus on September 17, 2018, 08:19:10 PM
He probably could have, and that's a fair point. I just keep thinking about the video they released after a dozen snarky online comments, with Derek's "cheesy ass gadgets" comment, like, Mike was filming that and released it, so...

But, regardless, yeah, it's nice that he called bullshit out on that whole Russian thing. Maybe we need an investigation to see if Derek was colluding.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: gzarruk on September 17, 2018, 08:29:28 PM
On that video, Mike was filming AND laughing at Derek’s comments about not bringing an ipad to the studio and all that.  It’s true that the Mike we saw at the start of the SOA promotional campaing was completely on board with all the crap Derek was saying, but it seems like he’s changed now. Anyway, I just pointed that he did right this time, and for Mike, that’s a first in a loooong time.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: SystematicThought on September 17, 2018, 08:35:01 PM
I just always figured Derek stopped talking because the album came out and really didn't blow up the way he thought it would so he just went back to being silent.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: mikeyd23 on September 18, 2018, 09:24:15 AM
I just always figured Derek stopped talking because the album came out and really didn't blow up the way he thought it would so he just went back to being silent.

Yup, that seems like the far more likely scenario.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ReaperKK on September 18, 2018, 08:55:30 PM
I just always figured Derek stopped talking because the album came out and really didn't blow up the way he thought it would so he just went back to being silent.

Yup, that seems like the far more likely scenario.

*Went back to making history HUR HUR HUR
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: SwedishGoose on September 18, 2018, 10:56:45 PM
I just always figured Derek stopped talking because the album came out and really didn't blow up the way he thought it would so he just went back to being silent.

Yup, that seems like the far more likely scenario.

*Went back to making history HUR HUR HUR

× Went back to beeing history 😙
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Anguyen92 on September 18, 2018, 11:12:42 PM
That octopus pedigree didn't really reached its peak there, now did it?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: axeman90210 on September 22, 2018, 02:43:49 PM
So among the covers tonight for their special orchestra show were Kashmir, Dream On, Comfortably Numb and Diary of a Madman. They also added in Hell's Kitchen before LitS. Insta-buy so hard.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Destiny Of Chaos on September 22, 2018, 03:32:26 PM
Yeah the set looks incredible. Will be buying this for sure
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: MirrorMask on September 22, 2018, 03:39:21 PM
Mike Portnoy posted this on FB:

(https://scontent-mxp1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/42337888_2482414915109469_8020658091622137856_n.jpg?_nc_cat=110&oh=8df69a87f07b956a61757130e4082425&oe=5C2DC506)

"Keep this setlist confidential and out of view"... good ol' Mike keeping surprises close to his chest :D
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: The Walrus on September 22, 2018, 03:44:24 PM
THREE Dream Theater covers?

 :rollin
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Madman Shepherd on September 22, 2018, 03:57:32 PM
THREE Dream Theater covers?

 :rollin

Plus a bunch of stuff he already covered before.  Kind of...underwhelming.  I mean, all of those covers are awesome (except Lines in the Sand and Just Let Me Breathe) and I'm actually looking forward to hearing it but after 30 years in the biz and having set guidelines of not repeating himself and this and that and he pulls out a bunch of repeats.  Awesome repeats, mind you, but it seems like he's running out of steam.  Can someone correct me if I'm wrong but it seems Kashmir is the only song he's never covered before.

For the record, I think that's fine and you should always just play whatever the best setlist while being mindful of keeping it fresh, it's just funny that he set himself up for this. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Madman Shepherd on September 22, 2018, 04:02:10 PM


Holy crap.  I typed in "Mike Portnoy Kashmir" in youtube to see if he had ever done that (it's not looking like it) but look what one of the top results was:

Hypercane with Mike Mangini solo - Kashmir
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xC_VmhvHE_4

Mangini fucking kills it.  And some people say he doesn't have enough "feel"  :lol
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ErHaO on September 22, 2018, 04:15:34 PM
Seems like an awesome setlist to me!
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: devieira73 on September 22, 2018, 04:53:57 PM
Only the set 2 with orchestra? Amazing setlist IMO!
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Adami on September 22, 2018, 06:03:10 PM
Good setlist....for the 2nd half, but it's a bit sad that I'm mostly excited for the non-SOA songs.

Also, less than half of the set is original songs. I dunno. I mean, I'm sure it'll be a cool DVD and I'll be getting it, but when a band's first DVD is mostly other people's songs, that can't be a good omen.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on September 22, 2018, 06:32:21 PM
Not terrible not not too exciting either of a setlist. I'm guessing Kashmir with the orchestra would be pretty sick though.  I plan on getting it.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Adami on September 22, 2018, 06:33:59 PM
Also, as much as I enjoy JSS, for songs like Dream On or Show Must Go On....does he have that range or is he changing the high parts which really make the song?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: gzarruk on September 22, 2018, 07:05:29 PM
Great that they decided to include Hell’s Kitchen, but they totally missed the oportunity to include BMS.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Stadler on September 22, 2018, 10:05:06 PM
I think JSS has the range, from what I saw.

I'm buying this.   Yeah, he's covered some of those before, yeah, half the set is not original (but they have ONE ALBUM out, and I think it's ludicrous to expect a DT song where Derek wasn't in the band), but I think given all the parameters - time to prepare, the rest of the set, the other players - that's as solid as anyone can reasonably expect. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: axeman90210 on September 22, 2018, 10:48:56 PM
I'm surprised that Mike chose such well known songs given that A) He has such wide range of taste, and B) I'm assuming that it will cost them more to legally release a live version of these songs versus deeper cuts.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: MirrorMask on September 23, 2018, 03:07:09 AM
Also, less than half of the set is original songs. I dunno. I mean, I'm sure it'll be a cool DVD and I'll be getting it, but when a band's first DVD is mostly other people's songs, that can't be a good omen.

Well, they have ONE album of original material after all... which was still played in full...
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Lowdz on September 23, 2018, 03:09:24 AM
Also, as much as I enjoy JSS, for songs like Dream On or Show Must Go On....does he have that range or is he changing the high parts which really make the song?

Having seen JSS do a full Queen set, he was awesome, and as he told me, all in the original key, no de tuning. That was a good 15 years or so ago though.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Un2cCeuJeIw
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Grappler on September 23, 2018, 07:14:33 AM
I'm surprised that Mike chose such well known songs given that A) He has such wide range of taste, and B) I'm assuming that it will cost them more to legally release a live version of these songs versus deeper cuts.

That's where I'm surprised.  I read something recently about an episode of Deadliest Catch, where the show's producers wanted to use Dream On instead of the traditional intro of Wanted Dead or Alive.  Discovery Channel ponied up to license Dream On for television, and the article mentioned that it was not cheap at all and suggested that it was somewhere in the six figure range.  I wonder if the cost is different for licensing for television and movie appearances vs. paying for the performance rights for the release of a live performance of the song.

Otherwise, I think it's fine.  They do only have one record out, and they probably didn't want to cover more than 3 songs from Falling Into Infinity.   I'm looking forward to the set.  I'm still enjoying the studio album a year after it came out.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Adami on September 23, 2018, 08:44:27 AM
I get that they only have one album. And the point that it's (basically) played in its entirety is a good one.

But I reflect on Flying Color's first live DVD. They also only had one album. They did one DT song, but filled the set out with songs from the other guys' histories so that it felt like a pretty cohesive live set. This one though....it just doesn't. 0 songs from JSS's career. 0 songs from Billy's career. 0 songs from Thal's career. But 3 songs from DT and 7 cover songs (not counting the solo spots), all of which are very very well known cover songs.

So it just feels very unbalanced. It feels like they're half cover band.

Like I said, I understand the logic, I just don't agree with it. And to reiterate my biggest point, which has largely been overlooked, it's not a good omen when I'm mostly excited for the cover songs and not the original songs.

Maybe, it just doesn't make a ton of sense for a band with 1 album and not great reception to release a hugely produced epic live DVD that is I assume is about 2 hours long.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: gzarruk on September 23, 2018, 09:03:36 AM
Well, they did play the That Metal Show theme, which is a Bumblefoot song and the Pink Panther theme has been his trademark solo spot for a while, but I completely get what you say. Even PSMS (3/5 SOA members) which had no original material managed to represent each member’s work better and add just a couple covers.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: MirrorMask on September 23, 2018, 09:25:30 AM
I get that they only have one album. And the point that it's (basically) played in its entirety is a good one.

But I reflect on Flying Color's first live DVD. They also only had one album. They did one DT song, but filled the set out with songs from the other guys' histories so that it felt like a pretty cohesive live set. This one though....it just doesn't. 0 songs from JSS's career. 0 songs from Billy's career. 0 songs from Thal's career. But 3 songs from DT and 7 cover songs (not counting the solo spots), all of which are very very well known cover songs.

So it just feels very unbalanced. It feels like they're half cover band.

Oh well, when you say it this way, I agree with you.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Ben_Jamin on September 23, 2018, 09:30:33 AM
You mean we're getting Hells Kitchen with an orchestra....awesome.

Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: SoundscapeMN on September 23, 2018, 10:20:00 AM
Queen - The Prophet's Song...if only I could take Jeff Scott Soto's voice (which reminds me too much of Russell Allen who I don't care all that much for).
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Architeuthis on September 23, 2018, 10:27:29 AM
It would have been cool if they did Foreplay/Longtime by Boston, as Derek allready did a small tribute to that in the song Divine Addiction.. That would have been better than a couple of the other songs they covered.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Cool Chris on September 23, 2018, 12:05:03 PM
It feels like they're half cover band.

...it's not a good omen when I'm mostly excited for the cover songs and not the original songs.

When the biggest anticipation for your upcoming release is cover songs, you are a cover band.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Architeuthis on September 23, 2018, 12:44:45 PM
It feels like they're half cover band.

...it's not a good omen when I'm mostly excited for the cover songs and not the original songs.

When the biggest anticipation for your upcoming release is cover songs, you are a cover band.
My biggest anticipation for this release is the SOA original material presented live. So no, they are not a cover band..
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: gzarruk on September 23, 2018, 01:23:07 PM
Looks like MP just cannot stay out of social media drama. Just look at his twitter account, someone who attended the Plovdiv concert complained about the covers vs original material and classic Mike + fanboys just bashed the crap out of him.

The guy’s original post wasn’t too smart, but Mike’s reaction is even worse. He blocked the guy and then called him a coward for “deleting” his tweet, when in reality he just can’t see it because he blocked him...
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: axeman90210 on September 23, 2018, 01:37:41 PM
Eh, that didn't bother me so much. Mike and the band were very clear on numerous occasions that they'd be playing covers at that show, and then this guy goes off on him for... playing covers :lol And the coward thing was just a misunderstanding about a deleted tweet versus being blocked.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: The Walrus on September 23, 2018, 01:42:18 PM
#MPWarriors

Mike is insecure.  He just can't help himself.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Anguyen92 on September 23, 2018, 01:47:02 PM
^^ Ok, so what do you expect him to do when a so-called fan gets all pissy for something that MP have clearly advertised in this particular show?  I mean putting the fan on blast is probably not the best approach, but maybe the fan shouldn't have drawn attention in the first place.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: MarkFitDT on September 23, 2018, 01:54:15 PM
Eh, that didn't bother me so much. Mike and the band were very clear on numerous occasions that they'd be playing covers at that show, and then this guy goes off on him for... playing covers :lol And the coward thing was just a misunderstanding about a deleted tweet versus being blocked.

The guy was complaining about the choice of covers  and that they only played one SOA song with the orchestra not the fact that they played covers per se.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Adami on September 23, 2018, 02:35:37 PM
^^ Ok, so what do you expect him to do when a so-called fan gets all pissy for something that MP have clearly advertised in this particular show?  I mean putting the fan on blast is probably not the best approach, but maybe the fan shouldn't have drawn attention in the first place.

Well he has a few options.

1) Just ignore it.
2) Do what he did at the beginning. Point out that it sucks that he didn't enjoy the show, but it WAS heavily advertised to be half covers. Then leave it at that.

But going on a whole thing about the guy being a coward when he deleted a tweet (in MP's perspective) which MP has done a bunch of times as well....that doesn't help anyone but get MP and his fans even more pissed off at anyone who doesn't love and appreciate him.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Cool Chris on September 23, 2018, 02:53:58 PM
No celebrity has ever gotten in to a Twitter argument with someone and come out looking well.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: TAC on September 23, 2018, 03:00:29 PM
Oh boy.

I don't doubt that SOA put on a great show in a club. They are all word class musicians.


BUT cover songs? Symphony? Wow, man, that is just cheesy. Didn't AMob do a cover album or EP too?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: MirrorMask on September 23, 2018, 03:01:40 PM
^^ Ok, so what do you expect him to do when a so-called fan gets all pissy for something that MP have clearly advertised in this particular show?  I mean putting the fan on blast is probably not the best approach, but maybe the fan shouldn't have drawn attention in the first place.

Well he has a few options.

1) Just ignore it.
2) Do what he did at the beginning. Point out that it sucks that he didn't enjoy the show, but it WAS heavily advertised to be half covers. Then leave it at that.

But going on a whole thing about the guy being a coward when he deleted a tweet (in MP's perspective) which MP has done a bunch of times as well....that doesn't help anyone but get MP and his fans even more pissed off at anyone who doesn't love and appreciate him.

Yeah, even if they deserve it, attacking the trolls or the negative ones is almost always a loss for a celebrity. Unless you have in you the perfectly witty remark that leaves a memorable burn, you end up looking bad even if you're right in the first place.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: The Walrus on September 23, 2018, 03:18:00 PM
^^ Ok, so what do you expect him to do when a so-called fan gets all pissy for something that MP have clearly advertised in this particular show?  I mean putting the fan on blast is probably not the best approach, but maybe the fan shouldn't have drawn attention in the first place.

Uh, don't put the fan on blast? You said it yourself. I get it. The fan threw a hissyfit, I would've just laughed it off like everything else MP's done since he left DT. But he's a 50 year old man, one of the world's most renowned drummers, at least in prog metal, and has ten thousand better things to do than bitch at fans online. He blocked me from his freaking Facebook for saying Ne Obliviscaris's new album was more exciting to me than the then-upcoming SoA album but I wished him well and he still took that so personally; he bitched at a fan who wanted to see him live and he said, "Uhhh you know they have these inventions called airplanes, right?" and he's just been acting like a child with respect to criticism ever since he (voluntarily, let's remember) left his baby. Remember when he flipped over a fan wearing an ADTOE shirt to a gig of his and his #MPWarriors crew rushed to call that guy an 'insensitive prick'?

In other words - rise above it. Be the bigger man. Let criticism be water off a duck's back. You would think a man who's been in the industry so long, even before the Internet was a thing, would be cognizant of that and how important it is to not stoop to the same level. He's got much bigger fish to fry.

EDIT: Wow that looks more heated than it really should. This is what happens when you can type almost as fast as you think. Sorry.  :lol
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Schurftkut on September 23, 2018, 04:29:24 PM
in that context, i think it's funny JM and JP laughed about MP's online attitude in an interview a few yrs back. XD Something about not having a thick skin..
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Stadler on September 23, 2018, 04:31:59 PM
So really, only one original song with the orchestra?   I didn't realize that going in.  I'm still in, and it still doesn't change that I'm going to buy it, but that's kind of... I would have liked more with the orchestra.   

Though... maybe those songs the orchestra knew?   

By the way, it's my understanding that USING "Dream On" and COVERING "Dream On" are not the same rate.  Bands can do cover songs live because most bigger venues have "performance licenses" that make sure artists are paid.  If you then release an album of those songs covered, I believe it's a flat rate.  So covering "Dream On" costs the same as covering "Gates Of Babylon".  I read somewhere it's like $0.09 per album per cover or some shit like that but I can't confirm that rate. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: goo-goo on September 23, 2018, 04:33:18 PM
While I feel the covers setlist to be underwhelming, I am excited about the live presentation of the compelte SoA album in a live setting. The songs worked so much better in a live environment. Too bad not of all the album was played with the orchestra.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ReaperKK on September 23, 2018, 04:36:57 PM
Mike should really practice not getting triggered by these types of tweets. He said there would be covers, there was covers, this guy was being an ass.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Adami on September 23, 2018, 04:50:08 PM
So really, only one original song with the orchestra?   I didn't realize that going in.  I'm still in, and it still doesn't change that I'm going to buy it, but that's kind of... I would have liked more with the orchestra.   



Two original songs, Labyrinth and Coming Home....assuming the orchestra was there for the encore.

I would think God of the Sun would make more sense with the orchestra. But ah well.

Also my biggest selling point was Kashmir, since I was hoping MP would...do his thing instead of the Bonham idea of just keeping an aggressive simple beat. I looked it up on youtube (fancam) and it looks like....not really. A few fills, but mostly it's VERY much like the original, which is a let down for me.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Schurftkut on September 23, 2018, 05:08:53 PM
now i'm curious if some of those covers stay in the setlist for the remaining tour, considering those are now known and in the open. I'll see/hear it in October, 2nd time coming here so a small change in setlists might be expected.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Cool Chris on September 23, 2018, 05:15:22 PM
Mike should really practice not getting triggered by these types of tweets. He said there would be covers, there was covers, this guy was being an ass.

I have mixed feelings about this. And it goes back to the MP in DT days. I have always said I would be pissed if I went to a DT show and they devoted 45-60 minutes to covering a whole album, as they did on occasion. I was informed "MP said they were going to do that on his web page" to which I replied "I shouldn't have to read the drummer's web page prior to going to a show to see if they were going to commit that much time to playing another band's music. If I buy a ticket to a DT show I don't expect a Metallica concert to break out halfway through"

That was a different situation though, as DT had several albums and hours worth of quality material and the album covers were not common occurrences. I don't know what someone going in to a SoA show is expecting. Them playing all of the 10 or whatever it is songs they released on their only album and that's it? Or was he complaining about the selection of covers more so than the existence of them?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: goo-goo on September 23, 2018, 05:48:49 PM
I think the complaints are more of the cover songs selection. I personally was expecting it to be a little more left field than what was actually played.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Adami on September 23, 2018, 05:55:31 PM
I really hope they pull out a Rock Star song at some point. I really like that sound track.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Madman Shepherd on September 23, 2018, 09:49:35 PM
So really, only one original song with the orchestra?   I didn't realize that going in.  I'm still in, and it still doesn't change that I'm going to buy it, but that's kind of... I would have liked more with the orchestra.   



Two original songs, Labyrinth and Coming Home....assuming the orchestra was there for the encore.

I would think God of the Sun would make more sense with the orchestra. But ah well.

Also my biggest selling point was Kashmir, since I was hoping MP would...do his thing instead of the Bonham idea of just keeping an aggressive simple beat. I looked it up on youtube (fancam) and it looks like....not really. A few fills, but mostly it's VERY much like the original, which is a let down for me.

Checked out the same video and wasn't too impressed with Jeff.  The guy really won me over (for a band I am less than moderately interested in) but he needs to put more reverb on his vocals or something.  He didn't sound bad but seemed to struggle.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Peter Mc on September 24, 2018, 06:41:14 AM
Can't say it's something I'll be buying, even more so now someone's said that the actual original songs are not with the orchestra.  The whole orchestra thing seems like something you'd do much later when you have a wealth of material to choose from, not after just one fairly average album.  Or it's something written specifically for that purpose like Deep Purple with Concerto For Group and Orchestra.

As for Mike's troubles on social media, don't blame him at all for blocking negative people.  If you're not happy with an album or show then, fine, give it a bad review, you don't need to make it personal by copying in the actual artist.  Why would you want to go on your own timeline and read negative stuff, it must hurt and not be great for your mental health, just block the person so you never have to hear from them again.  That being said, not sure why Mike has to call the guy out and post this all over twitter, he didn't say anything that bad or abusive, just block him and move on with your day.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Kocak on September 24, 2018, 07:37:07 AM
As for Mike's troubles on social media, don't blame him at all for blocking negative people.  If you're not happy with an album or show then, fine, give it a bad review, you don't need to make it personal by copying in the actual artist.  Why would you want to go on your own timeline and read negative stuff, it must hurt and not be great for your mental health, just block the person so you never have to hear from them again.  That being said, not sure why Mike has to call the guy out and post this all over twitter, he didn't say anything that bad or abusive, just block him and move on with your day.

I think the trouble is that he expects people to be on board with everything he does and gets really really upset when he sees that some people aren't. For a person who releases maaaaaaany albums per year, there will be backlash.

Yes, people have a right to block people when they don't want to see their content, but a 50+ year old man should know that social media brawls are unnecessary - just block and move on.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Stadler on September 24, 2018, 07:59:53 AM
I'm pretty much Team Mike, having stuck up for him during the whole Derek Whine-and-Cheese tasting leading up to the album release, but one recent thing cheesed me off:   He blocked someone, and some girl - legitimately - said (I'm paraphrasing) "Mike, its not unreasonable to objectively provide criticism.  Its not really cool to block someone just because they criticized you." and he replied "That guy wasn't just giving criticism, he was making it personal, and so he's blocked.  Like you.  Buh-BYE! #Blocked."   

She literally asked him a question about taking constructive criticism, and he said it was personal and blocked her.   
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: The Walrus on September 24, 2018, 08:03:30 AM
I'm pretty much Team Mike, having stuck up for him during the whole Derek Whine-and-Cheese tasting leading up to the album release, but one recent thing cheesed me off:   He blocked someone, and some girl - legitimately - said (I'm paraphrasing) "Mike, its not unreasonable to objectively provide criticism.  Its not really cool to block someone just because they criticized you." and he replied "That guy wasn't just giving criticism, he was making it personal, and so he's blocked.  Like you.  Buh-BYE! #Blocked."   

She literally asked him a question about taking constructive criticism, and he said it was personal and blocked her.

Yeah. That was in the chain of Twitter comments when Mike was bragging about blocking the first guy who said he was annoyed with the set of covers. He can't help himself. "Buh-BYE!" What a douchey way to act
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on September 24, 2018, 08:06:21 AM
No celebrity has ever gotten in to a Twitter argument with someone and come out looking well.

Bingo and Mike should know this and not engage with twitter trolls.

Honestly, makes me wonder if that guy was even legit in his hate or just a flat out troll who wasn't even there.  Either way, MP shouldn't engage one iota with these people because even if his point is correct and fair, it just always comes out looking bad in the end.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Schurftkut on September 24, 2018, 08:50:12 AM
It seems MP has problems brushing his teeth, he's posting the 3rd/4th time about needing urgent dentalcare on tour..
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bosk1 on September 24, 2018, 09:36:27 AM
...I am excited about the live presentation of the compelte SoA album in a live setting. The songs worked so much better in a live environment.

Yeah, having seen them on tour, I can say that pretty much every single song was really good in a live setting, with the exception of Opus Maximus, which legitimately bored me.  Even Figaro's (which I don't have a problem with on the album and don't understand why some people do) was a nice, short instrumental break to transition to the next song.  I was actually a bit surprised they didn't extend that one and turn it into a longer keyboard piece. 

As someone who enjoys the songs on the album, and enjoyed them even more live, I definitely plan to pick this up.  And I'm perfectly cool with the covers too.  Personally, I too would like to have seen a bit more material from the band members' past projects in place of some covers.  But that's not something I feel the need to dwell on either. 

As for Mike's extracurricular fan interaction...I don't really have anything to say that hasn't been said.  I'll just say:  sadly predictable.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: MarkFitDT on September 24, 2018, 10:24:13 AM
No celebrity has ever gotten in to a Twitter argument with someone and come out looking well.

Bingo and Mike should know this and not engage with twitter trolls.

Honestly, makes me wonder if that guy was even legit in his hate or just a flat out troll who wasn't even there.  Either way, MP shouldn't engage one iota with these people because even if his point is correct and fair, it just always comes out looking bad in the end.

Reading the guy's tweets I see no reason to believe that he wasnt there and just because he wasnt happy with the show does that make him a troll? I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with what he said but Mike should have just ignored the tweet and none of this would have happened but Mike seems to have issues not biting.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on September 24, 2018, 10:52:43 AM
No celebrity has ever gotten in to a Twitter argument with someone and come out looking well.

Bingo and Mike should know this and not engage with twitter trolls.

Honestly, makes me wonder if that guy was even legit in his hate or just a flat out troll who wasn't even there.  Either way, MP shouldn't engage one iota with these people because even if his point is correct and fair, it just always comes out looking bad in the end.

Reading the guy's tweets I see no reason to believe that he wasnt there and just because he wasnt happy with the show does that make him a troll? I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with what he said but Mike should have just ignored the tweet and none of this would have happened but Mike seems to have issues not biting.

If the sole purpose of your tweet is to shit on someone/something, I feel like you are trolling.  I didn't read anything besides his original tweet to know if he was there, just seems odd to go to that show and not know you are going to get a bunch of covers.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: MarkFitDT on September 24, 2018, 11:00:21 AM
No celebrity has ever gotten in to a Twitter argument with someone and come out looking well.

Bingo and Mike should know this and not engage with twitter trolls.

Honestly, makes me wonder if that guy was even legit in his hate or just a flat out troll who wasn't even there.  Either way, MP shouldn't engage one iota with these people because even if his point is correct and fair, it just always comes out looking bad in the end.

Reading the guy's tweets I see no reason to believe that he wasnt there and just because he wasnt happy with the show does that make him a troll? I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with what he said but Mike should have just ignored the tweet and none of this would have happened but Mike seems to have issues not biting.

If the sole purpose of your tweet is to shit on someone/something, I feel like you are trolling.  I didn't read anything besides his original tweet to know if he was there, just seems odd to go to that show and not know you are going to get a bunch of covers.

Im not having a pop at you by the way and as I said I don't agree or disagree with what he tweeted but Ive seen a lot worse where people have baited people deliberately to get a reaction. It just read to me that he was disappointed and as I mentioned in a previous post he said it wasnt the fact that there were covers - he knew there were covers before the show - it was the choice of covers and that they only did one SOA with the orchestra. Songs that had been played with orchestras before by other bands. I think he mentioned that the second track SOA played in the encore was done without the orchestra as they had left the stage at that point - apologies if Ive got that wrong as I don't have the tweets in front of me. Having said all that I stand by my point that Mike should know better and have ignored it.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Grappler on September 24, 2018, 11:19:17 AM
This was the original tweet.  Sure, Mike can overdo it on social media and there is a more tactful way to respond, but I don't really mind him being a bit over this type of questioning and fan response - the show was advertised with a second set consisting of an orchestra and special cover songs.  Quite frankly, the band played the entire album live and an extended set beyond what they've been playing on tour.  What more can you ask for?

If they would have chosen to play some other material to represent JSS and Sheehan's careers instead of random cover songs, they could have avoided this kind of criticism.  I don't know why they avoid those songs, unless they want to generally say that this is a true BAND rather than one of Portnoy's projects, and they just play a few DT songs because of him and Derek being together again.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DnyMBRpX0AIeQbL.jpg)
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bosk1 on September 24, 2018, 11:25:34 AM
Okay, yeah, that puts Portnoy's reaction in a COMPLETELY different light.  And while he still would be better served just letting things go and taking the high road, that guy was an idiot for thinking it would somehow be cool to come in and post that on MP's Twitter.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: gzarruk on September 24, 2018, 11:35:26 AM
I agree that the guy wasn't very smart to tweet something like that, but the big problem here is that Mike can't act like a grown up and ignore this or something. Instead, he chooses to maximize the problem by calling him out on his social media and accusing him of deleting the tweet, calling him a coward. Grow up, Mike, just ignore the haters/trolls.

Imagine what would happen if James reacted like that every time someone posts on his social media that he can't sing anymore or that DT should get a new singer. Imagine if Mangini reacted like that every time people call him a "robot with no soul" or something similar. But they don't. No one here is saying that what this guy posted is correct, but MP really needs to calm down and think things through before replying to something like this.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: The Walrus on September 24, 2018, 11:36:34 AM
Did the guy delete it or does Mike just think that because he blocked him? Lol...
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: gzarruk on September 24, 2018, 11:41:10 AM
Did the guy delete it or does Mike just think that because he blocked him? Lol...

Don't know if he's deleted it today, but yesterday Mike was all like "oh, this guy deleted his tweet, he's a coward, too good I got an screnshot of it" or something (paraphrasing), and the tweet was there, only that he couldn't see it because he had blocked him already. Some people replied pointing this, but he just ignored them.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Stadler on September 24, 2018, 12:41:57 PM
What would the point be of taking a screenshot of that tweet?  I might see it if you were going to have some fun with it and turn it around, but that's not what Mike does. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Kocak on September 24, 2018, 12:48:44 PM
What would the point be of taking a screenshot of that tweet?  I might see it if you were going to have some fun with it and turn it around, but that's not what Mike does.

Because he wants people to agree with him.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: The Walrus on September 24, 2018, 12:54:49 PM
Well, look at the comments on that tweet. It's all about validation from the #MPWarriors against the alleged #haters. It's why Marc 'No Filter Loki' came here to stir up shit (he was the guy who gave Mike that cymbal with every band he ever played with).
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on September 24, 2018, 12:56:14 PM
What would the point be of taking a screenshot of that tweet?  I might see it if you were going to have some fun with it and turn it around, but that's not what Mike does.

I have a friend who screen shots lots of messages in our group chat because a certain person in our chat is known for saying absolutely ridiculous and often harsh things and then deletes them so this one friend always screenshots such messages so he can call him out later when he deletes them.  I wouldn't be surprised if MP has had enough trolls over the years who delete their tweets after being called out so he screenshots them to cover his ass for his call out.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Stadler on September 24, 2018, 01:18:54 PM
Well, look at the comments on that tweet. It's all about validation from the #MPWarriors against the alleged #haters. It's why Marc 'No Filter Loki' came here to stir up shit (he was the guy who gave Mike that cymbal with every band he ever played with).

By the way, not for nothing, but at the Worcester show there were two guys with T-Shirts with the logo of every band he played with on the back and they were acting a little sketch about them - "Oh, Mike approved it, but they're not for sale, we can't reproduce them, yadda yadda".  Go look at Mike's merch store.   
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Stadler on September 24, 2018, 01:19:31 PM
What would the point be of taking a screenshot of that tweet?  I might see it if you were going to have some fun with it and turn it around, but that's not what Mike does.

I have a friend who screen shots lots of messages in our group chat because a certain person in our chat is known for saying absolutely ridiculous and often harsh things and then deletes them so this one friend always screenshots such messages so he can call him out later when he deletes them.  I wouldn't be surprised if MP has had enough trolls over the years who delete their tweets after being called out so he screenshots them to cover his ass for his call out.

You forget; I'm about a four year old in Tweet years.  :)   You can delete tweets?   :)
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on September 24, 2018, 01:21:00 PM
Of course you can, MP would look even worse claiming someone deleted a tweet if that wasn't even possible
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Stadler on September 24, 2018, 01:24:36 PM
Of course you can, MP would look even worse claiming someone deleted a tweet if that wasn't even possible

It's telling that I did not rule out that possibility.  :)   :hat
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bosk1 on September 24, 2018, 01:24:58 PM
By the way, not for nothing, but at the Worcester show there were two guys with T-Shirts with the logo of every band he played with on the back and they were acting a little sketch about them - "Oh, Mike approved it, but they're not for sale, we can't reproduce them, yadda yadda".  Go look at Mike's merch store.   

I'm not sure what you are getting at with this.  ???
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Stadler on September 24, 2018, 01:27:21 PM
By the way, not for nothing, but at the Worcester show there were two guys with T-Shirts with the logo of every band he played with on the back and they were acting a little sketch about them - "Oh, Mike approved it, but they're not for sale, we can't reproduce them, yadda yadda".  Go look at Mike's merch store.   

I'm not sure what you are getting at with this.  ???

It's a complete non sequitor.  KTLX noted the cymbal with all the bands on it, and it dawned on me that I meant to post this and forgot.   I just remember the guys being pretty defensive about these shirts (which were admittedly pretty cool) but now they're for sale by Mike himself.  I find it interesting.   
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: The Walrus on September 24, 2018, 01:27:44 PM
I think those shirts literally had to be custom made and ordered or something. "Loki" handled it at first IIRC or something like that
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bosk1 on September 24, 2018, 01:32:54 PM
By the way, not for nothing, but at the Worcester show there were two guys with T-Shirts with the logo of every band he played with on the back and they were acting a little sketch about them - "Oh, Mike approved it, but they're not for sale, we can't reproduce them, yadda yadda".  Go look at Mike's merch store.   

I'm not sure what you are getting at with this.  ???

It's a complete non sequitor.  KTLX noted the cymbal with all the bands on it, and it dawned on me that I meant to post this and forgot.   I just remember the guys being pretty defensive about these shirts (which were admittedly pretty cool) but now they're for sale by Mike himself.  I find it interesting.   

Oh, Mike actually IS selling them?  I missed that detail, so it didn't make sense to me.

Not sure how long making one's own custom band shirts has been a thing.  I've done it for DT as far as the forum shirts.  They aren't official, but the band more or less approved after the fact (JP and Maddi asked for me to make them one). 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Madman Shepherd on September 24, 2018, 06:23:24 PM
I'm pretty much Team Mike, having stuck up for him during the whole Derek Whine-and-Cheese tasting leading up to the album release, but one recent thing cheesed me off:   He blocked someone, and some girl - legitimately - said (I'm paraphrasing) "Mike, its not unreasonable to objectively provide criticism.  Its not really cool to block someone just because they criticized you." and he replied "That guy wasn't just giving criticism, he was making it personal, and so he's blocked.  Like you.  Buh-BYE! #Blocked."   

She literally asked him a question about taking constructive criticism, and he said it was personal and blocked her.

Yeah that's pretty crappy of him, but do you not expect that?  It's not like his past behavior is too off the mark from that. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Dave_Manchester on September 25, 2018, 07:36:07 AM
About the cover songs they played - I once dated a girl who plays viola for an orchestra in Moscow that does this kind of thing. They moonlight as a backing orchestra for visiting rock bands. The bands can't ask them to play any song, because it isn't practical. All the members of the orchestra have very busy schedules playing 'proper' classical music as their day job, some also have 2nd jobs in string quartets or piano trios or whatever. This rock band gig is just a part-time job that pays comparatively well. They don't have time to figure out and then learn an arrangement of some obscure Gentle Giant b-side or whatever. Bands can only select from a kind of 'menu' of songs which require no learning because they've been played dozens of times before. Big hits like Queen and Zeppelin and so on. For a bit extra they will learn maybe 1 or 2 others, but in general you have to choose from the big famous numbers. If you want an entirely unique setlist it costs a lot of money; money that I don't imagine SoA's label are prepared to spend yet. 

I don't know if that Bulgarian orchestra has a similar kind of deal, but it's possible they do, and that may be the reason MP didn't break out the deep cuts from the band members. It also may have been a decision based on the occasion. YT videos suggest the crowd was really into the covers, singing along to the words. How likely is it rare tracks from Bumblefoot's or Jeff's past catalogues would have got the same reaction?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on September 25, 2018, 07:45:36 AM
About the cover songs they played - I once dated a girl who plays viola for an orchestra in Moscow that does this kind of thing. They moonlight as a backing orchestra for visiting rock bands. The bands can't ask them to play any song, because it isn't practical. All the members of the orchestra have very busy schedules playing 'proper' classical music as their day job, some also have 2nd jobs in string quartets or piano trios or whatever. This rock band gig is just a lucrative part-time job that pays comparatively well. They don't have time to figure out and then learn an arrangement of some obscure Gentle Giant b-side or whatever. Bands can only select from a kind of 'menu' of songs which require no learning because they've been played dozens of times before. Big hits like Queen and Zeppelin and so on. For a bit extra they will learn maybe 1 or 2 others, but in general you have to choose from the big famous numbers. If you want an entirely unique setlist it costs a lot of money; money that I don't imagine SoA's label are prepared to spend yet. 

I don't know if that Bulgarian orchestra have a similar kind of deal, but it's possible they do, and that may be the reason MP didn't break out the deep cuts from the band members. It also may have been a decision based on the occasion. YT videos suggest the crowd was really into the covers, singing along to the words. How likely is it rare tracks from Bumblefoot's or Jeff's past catalogues would have got the same reaction?

So Devin Townsend did the same type of concert last year.  He released the blu-ray a few months ago of two sets, one of the band with the orchestra/choir and the second set was just the band.  There was a bonus video with Devin about the "making of" essentially.  Devin doesn't hold back and says how it is and it's pretty similar to what you said.  For one, to do such a show, he needed a place that can do it cheaply.  Bulgaria fits that part, and I assume the cheapness per "epicness" lets call it is pretty good for this type of venue/show/taping when you consider the venue and the orchestra/choir plus the ability to film it.  The orchestra also had a lot of input on the songs they played.  Devin said he was not allowed to just tell them what to play, it had to be a compromise and that's why his "by request setlist" wasn't truly by request, the orchestra had a say in the choice of songs.  Not only that, they also had a strong say in the interpretation of the music.  Devin said he wasn't really comfortable with how he couldn't tell them what to do, but he did have some say, but like the setlist, it was a compromise. 

I can only imagine it's the same with SOA.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: MirrorMask on September 25, 2018, 07:48:09 AM
Interesting. I would assume that skilled and professional musicians are so good at their craft that they can basically hear the song, read the score and then play it. You hear all the time about replacement musicians who learnt the setlist in 48 hours and stuff like that, why couldn't an orchestra player come in, read the score and nail it? What you said makes a lot more sense however.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Adami on September 25, 2018, 07:53:49 AM
YT videos suggest the crowd was really into the covers, singing along to the words. How likely is it rare tracks from Bumblefoot's or Jeff's past catalogues would have got the same reaction?

Well yes, obviously big famous songs will always get more of that kind of reaction. By that logic, they should have only played big rock hits from the past. The crowd would have gone nuts. That's why cover bands get so much attention in places like Vegas.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Dave_Manchester on September 25, 2018, 07:58:25 AM
YT videos suggest the crowd was really into the covers, singing along to the words. How likely is it rare tracks from Bumblefoot's or Jeff's past catalogues would have got the same reaction?

Well yes, obviously big famous songs will always get more of that kind of reaction. By that logic, they should have only played big rock hits from the past.

No they shouldn't because the reaction to the band's own songs was even bigger.

My point was that if for practical reasons you have to play some cover songs to flesh out your show of otherwise original music, it's probably a wiser decision to play a well-known song than a relatively unknown one.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Stadler on September 25, 2018, 08:00:46 AM
Interesting. I would assume that skilled and professional musicians are so good at their craft that they can basically hear the song, read the score and then play it. You hear all the time about replacement musicians who learnt the setlist in 48 hours and stuff like that, why couldn't an orchestra player come in, read the score and nail it? What you said makes a lot more sense however.

Well, bearing in mind that most of us were not world class musicians (though some were; one guy even played with Brandon Marsalis), when I played in a string band in Philly - about 60 musicians, sax, bass sax, banjo, bass, drums, couple other brass instruments - there were really two parts to this:  one was playing the score, and most of us could do exactly that.   But there are things like tempo and volume that you can only go so far in terms of putting it on paper.  My band had NO amplified instruments and the drums were basically a snare and a bass drum (like you'd see in a marching band) and so having that electric component with SoA, I can see that rehearsal is important.   Then you factor in that there's a conductor/director, and so as you move through there will undoubtedly be things that he/she hears in his/her (I'm not going to keep doing this; you get it) head that he doesn't hear in his ears, and so makes a tweak. 

No one mentioned it, but there are camera and recording considerations as well, I would imagine. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Adami on September 25, 2018, 08:01:14 AM
Sure. For me, I'm let down. That's all. It just feels very insincere. Like they're trying to rush something that would otherwise take years to develop. This isn't the only aspect of this, but just the latest one. Everything about SoA feels like they're rushing everything and not taking necessary time.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Dave_Manchester on September 25, 2018, 08:08:10 AM
Interesting. I would assume that skilled and professional musicians are so good at their craft that they can basically hear the song, read the score and then play it. You hear all the time about replacement musicians who learnt the setlist in 48 hours and stuff like that, why couldn't an orchestra player come in, read the score and nail it? What you said makes a lot more sense however.

The orchestral arrangement isn't in the score though. That has to be created by someone else (the conductor usually, or sometimes one of the players). It reportedly took Michael Kaymen months to compose the orchestral parts for Metallica's S&M concert. It's not a simple task at all, especially for songs that are complex to begin with.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on September 25, 2018, 08:10:37 AM
Interesting. I would assume that skilled and professional musicians are so good at their craft that they can basically hear the song, read the score and then play it. You hear all the time about replacement musicians who learnt the setlist in 48 hours and stuff like that, why couldn't an orchestra player come in, read the score and nail it? What you said makes a lot more sense however.

The orchestral arrangement isn't in the score though. That has to be created by someone else (the conductor usually, or sometimes one of the players). It reportedly took Michael Kaymen months to compose the orchestral parts for Metallica's S&M concert. It's not a simple task at all, especially for songs that are complex to begin with.

And definitely going to be easier for the cover songs vs. the original SOA songs.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: nattmorker on September 25, 2018, 08:44:41 AM

Interesting. I would assume that skilled and professional musicians are so good at their craft that they can basically hear the song, read the score and then play it. You hear all the time about replacement musicians who learnt the setlist in 48 hours and stuff like that, why couldn't an orchestra player come in, read the score and nail it? What you said makes a lot more sense however.

And as somebody already mentioned, they already have a main job playing for orchestras or ensembles, so it's not like they have a lot of free time to learn something new. My wife is a professional musician, she plays in an orchestra (she plays flute) and I've seen how this works most of the times. She played in a Queen tribute concert a few months back and she was given the sheet music the morning of day of the show, she was called as a substitute for another orchestra. So, they're skilled and usually can play the songs without hearing them, just one read and that's it. But there's so much more involved, they need to rehearse with the director and since most of them are pretty busy with their main jobs, they usually only have time to rehearse once or twice.

Also keep in mind than most of them have to learn a concert worth of new pieces every week for the orchestra concerts. And those piece are usually hard!

Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Kocak on September 25, 2018, 08:52:14 AM
Sure. For me, I'm let down. That's all. It just feels very insincere. Like they're trying to rush something that would otherwise take years to develop. This isn't the only aspect of this, but just the latest one. Everything about SoA feels like they're rushing everything and not taking necessary time.

This is what I feel as well. I'd prefer one quality release over 8 mediocre ones.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Adami on September 25, 2018, 10:04:57 AM
Maybe they should wait to do a huge DVD with an orchestra until it makes sense and isn't mostly cover songs? They could have simply NOT done this. It's also not even a little representative of their tour since they were mostly playing clubs. Release a club DVD. Don't BS this one just to do it.

(https://weknowmemes.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/never-half-ass-two-things-whole-ass-one-thing.jpg)
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Stadler on September 25, 2018, 10:05:25 AM

Interesting. I would assume that skilled and professional musicians are so good at their craft that they can basically hear the song, read the score and then play it. You hear all the time about replacement musicians who learnt the setlist in 48 hours and stuff like that, why couldn't an orchestra player come in, read the score and nail it? What you said makes a lot more sense however.

And as somebody already mentioned, they already have a main job playing for orchestras or ensembles, so it's not like they have a lot of free time to learn something new. My wife is a professional musician, she plays in an orchestra (she plays flute) and I've seen how this works most of the times. She played in a Queen tribute concert a few months back and she was given the sheet music the morning of day of the show, she was called as a substitute for another orchestra. So, they're skilled and usually can play the songs without hearing them, just one read and that's it. But there's so much more involved, they need to rehearse with the director and since most of them are pretty busy with their main jobs, they usually only have time to rehearse once or twice.

Also keep in mind than most of them have to learn a concert worth of new pieces every week for the orchestra concerts. And those piece are usually hard!

That last part is the single hardest thing for me being a musician.  While Mumming, we had to know the final routine (about a five minute piece, but there was a lot of choreography) and I'm deeply embarrassed to admit that I had to learn three final routines and never was able to play the whole thing all the way through without accompaniment.   It wasn't technique, it was "memory".   I honestly don't know how a Bob Weir or a Mike Portnoy do it.   
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on September 25, 2018, 10:09:15 AM
Maybe they should wait to do a huge DVD with an orchestra until it makes sense and isn't mostly cover songs? They could have simply NOT done this. It's also not even a little representative of their tour since they were mostly playing clubs. Release a club DVD. Don't BS this one just to do it.

My guess is the cost to do what you suggest (and do it right, not a shit video) vs this much more grandiose concert were probably not that far off.  Devin said this was within his super cheap budget to do and SOA followed the script he put out last year for performing this type of show.  Still doesn't answer the "why" but the only answer I can think of is $
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Elite on September 25, 2018, 10:09:44 AM
Sure. For me, I'm let down. That's all. It just feels very insincere. Like they're trying to rush something that would otherwise take years to develop. This isn't the only aspect of this, but just the latest one. Everything about SoA feels like they're rushing everything and not taking necessary time.

You’re not getting ‘8 mediocre releases’. It’s one live release that contains ALL material the band has ever put out, as well as a cool selection of cover songs played by everybody’s new favourite Mike Portnoy side-project with an orchestra.

This is what I feel as well. I'd prefer one quality release over 8 mediocre ones.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bosk1 on September 25, 2018, 10:09:56 AM
Maybe they should wait to do a huge DVD with an orchestra until it makes sense and isn't mostly cover songs? They could have simply NOT done this. It's also not even a little representative of their tour since they were mostly playing clubs. Release a club DVD. Don't BS this one just to do it.

I honestly don't get that perspective at all.  I'm not sure how this doesn't "make sense," or how it somehow needs to be representative of their tour.  I've seen plenty of DVDs through the years that were representative of the tours they came from, and plenty that were not.  Neither end of the spectrum really had any impact on the enjoyability or quality of the DVD that I could discern. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Adami on September 25, 2018, 10:17:30 AM
Maybe they should wait to do a huge DVD with an orchestra until it makes sense and isn't mostly cover songs? They could have simply NOT done this. It's also not even a little representative of their tour since they were mostly playing clubs. Release a club DVD. Don't BS this one just to do it.

I honestly don't get that perspective at all.  I'm not sure how this doesn't "make sense," or how it somehow needs to be representative of their tour.  I've seen plenty of DVDs through the years that were representative of the tours they came from, and plenty that were not.  Neither end of the spectrum really had any impact on the enjoyability or quality of the DVD that I could discern.

I never said it needed to be. I just pointed out that it wasn't.

For instance, let's look at Within Temptation. Their DVD's are (or were) huge events. Orchestras, stage shows, choirs etc. Obviously not representative of their tour. But it WAS representative of what the band was. The band was always symphonic and huge and theatrical. Or let's look at Metallica. Obviously S&M was completely out of left field from everything else they had done. And for them, that was the point. Years and years and years as one thing, they were expanding on that. But they needed that huge history for it to make sense.

But SoA? They're one of MPS's many many projects. I know you liked the album a lot and so did plenty of others, but it seems like the album was not widely received as being great or amazing, seems most people thought it was "okay". The band has barely been around very long. The music is not huge and epic and theatrical. It's good hard rock music. So the idea of doing a whole show at a huge ampitheater and having an orchestra and choir back you up for two of your songs and then a bunch of jukebox rock songs seems odd.

You can disagree with me, that's totally cool. I'm merely expressing my opinion. But I have some thought process behind it. It's possible to disagree with me without completely not understanding why I could have possibly thought what I do. You know? We can just disagree. It's all cool. I don't want anyone to like this any less than they do. I wish I was more excited. I wish I liked it more. I just don't.

Edit: I'd also like to point out that, even though I don't understand the need for this DVD to be the way it is, I completely understand people's excitement and (hopeful) enjoyment of it when it comes out. I am happy people are excited. I like when people like things. This seems like a pretty cool thing to be excited about, even if it doesn't connect with me.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bosk1 on September 25, 2018, 10:23:08 AM
And I get that you don't like it.  But I don't get that you find it not making sense.  I don't even know what "making sense" is supposed to mean in this context, your explanation notwithstanding.  And that isn't a slam.  I just don't get it.  Not because we disagree, but simply because I just don't get pretty much any position implying that there are a set of established "rules" for how one must enjoy their music.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Adami on September 25, 2018, 10:26:49 AM
And I get that you don't like it.  But I don't get that you find it not making sense.  I don't even know what "making sense" is supposed to mean in this context, your explanation notwithstanding.  And that isn't a slam.  I just don't get it.  Not because we disagree, but simply because I just don't get pretty much any position implying that there are a set of established "rules" for how one must enjoy their music.

Oh totally. And I'm sorry if I made it seem like that was my complaint. There are definitely no established set of rules, but for me personally, I like it to feel like a logical choice. This, to me personally, does not feel like a logical choice as part of the natural development. It feels like "I want to do this....and I'll do it with this band." I think doing a show with an orchestra would have made more "sense" with Flying Colors, or one of his Neil Morse projects. Or maybe at a time when they have 2-3 albums and could do a full DVD of original material and have the orchestra back that up, you know? I dunno. It's just my perspective. I don't see the logic. Not that it has to follow a SPECIFIC logic, but it doesn't seem to follow any kind of logic. I can see it following a thought process, for sure, but not one I'd consider logical. But that's just me.


Also, I am not at ALL saying anything about people enjoying their music. In fact, I said I am glad they do. I was talking about the decision making process for the band and arriving on this DVD as the the thing to do. People can enjoy whatever they enjoy and more power to them. I enjoy a ton of things that people think make no sense.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bosk1 on September 25, 2018, 10:29:20 AM
And I'll just reiterate that you are one of my favorite people on this forum, so if my post implied a tone that may have indicated otherwise, that wasn't my intent.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Adami on September 25, 2018, 10:30:46 AM
And I'll just reiterate that you are one of my favorite people on this forum, so if my post implied a tone that may have indicated otherwise, that wasn't my intent.

Nah. I also don't want to write my psychotherapy notes and this is more fun haha.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bosk1 on September 25, 2018, 10:31:50 AM
You pretty much just described most of my days/post-count.  :lol
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Ben_Jamin on September 25, 2018, 10:51:04 AM
I wonder if rehearsal time also plays a part. Anathema played their entire set with the orchestra, so I wonder if they rehearsed with them before the show, or the conductor likes their music that much.

Once SOA announced they were doing this gig with an orchestra, my first reaction was...Why? Doesn't seem the right time, or reason to do it. Was it just the novelty of playing with an orchestra?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Grappler on September 25, 2018, 11:27:36 AM
Maybe the entire idea was the promoter's? 

"Hey Mike, I love the new Sons of Apollo record.  Devin Townsend just did a big DVD concert here and we'd like to give you the same opportunity.  I can get you an ancient historic venue, an orchestra and the recording equipment.  Are you interested?"

Nobody would pass that up if a promoter handed it to you on a platter. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ProfessorPeart on September 25, 2018, 11:56:01 AM
Maybe the entire idea was the promoter's? 

"Hey Mike, I love the new Sons of Apollo record.  Devin Townsend just did a big DVD concert here and we'd like to give you the same opportunity.  I can get you an ancient historic venue, an orchestra and the recording equipment.  Are you interested?"

Nobody would pass that up if a promoter handed it to you on a platter.

Interesting point. That venue seems to be building a reputation for metal/orchestra concerts. Devin, Katatonia, Opeth, Sons, etc. have all done it there in recent years.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Adami on September 25, 2018, 11:58:13 AM
Maybe the entire idea was the promoter's? 

"Hey Mike, I love the new Sons of Apollo record.  Devin Townsend just did a big DVD concert here and we'd like to give you the same opportunity.  I can get you an ancient historic venue, an orchestra and the recording equipment.  Are you interested?"

Nobody would pass that up if a promoter handed it to you on a platter.

Maybe. We have no idea. Seems like going from Devin Townsend to Sons of Apollo is an odd leap, but who knows? Maybe LaBrie e-mailed Portnoy and said

"Hey hoser! I think the new Sons of Apollo is wicked terrible eh? We did that awesome DVD with an orchestra and a choir. CAN YOU TOP IT?!??! Maple syrup."

Who knows?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Skeever on September 25, 2018, 12:07:49 PM
Gotta wonder what it's like being the kind of person who goes to a concert to see a band with one album and gets mad they dipped into covers so they could give you a longer show
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: SwedishGoose on September 25, 2018, 12:08:09 PM
Opeths concert there was all originals

https://www.setlist.fm/setlist/opeth/2015/roman-amphitheatre-plovdiv-bulgaria-2bf48c92.html

Unfortunately it was not released on BluRay or even on CD. Just a couple of bonus songs on Sorceress and a cover CD on Prog Magazine.
Would have loved to have that on BR....

This one will not get through my door..... lukewarm on the album and not excited about the covers. Yeah, I also think they should have waited.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ErHaO on September 25, 2018, 03:27:24 PM
I don't really get the problem with playing covers, or with an orchestra this early for that matter. The generally accepted purpose of a concert is to entertain, no? They marketed this concert rather clearly as being their first album plus a series of rock classics.

When I go to classical concerts, musicals, or concerts like, say Night of the Proms, I usually end up seeing a group of (gifted) people who weren't involved in the original recordings of the music, but nobody there cares. Here, we have a group of great musicians with long careers in the rock/metal/prog genres performing some of the greatest classics. I just don't get some of the more overly critical or even lamenting comments (on social media especially). I do get people voicing their preferences, offcourse.


Furthermore, from what I can tell they did Gates of Babylon justice. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dI1YFyaTaac (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dI1YFyaTaac) With artists like Dio long gone, I actually really like seeing stuff like this.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Madman Shepherd on September 25, 2018, 03:36:57 PM
Holy crap, Soto nailed that. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ChuckSteak on September 25, 2018, 10:43:15 PM
How many bands in the planet release a studio album only to release a live right after it? The problem is that they act as if they are a very old band, respected, known. Yes, all the members are very good musicians who played in other bands before and all have a high profile. But that doesn't mean shit if you are a new band and only released one record.

If they had released a live EP as bonus tracks (or bonus CD) for the second studio album, that would be totally ok. And I completely understand people getting disappointed when they decided to play cover with the orchestra. Who the hell wants to see covers? Don't even release them, unless you can make it better than the original or very interesting in a different way.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ChuckSteak on September 25, 2018, 10:48:22 PM
Opeths concert there was all originals

https://www.setlist.fm/setlist/opeth/2015/roman-amphitheatre-plovdiv-bulgaria-2bf48c92.html

Unfortunately it was not released on BluRay or even on CD. Just a couple of bonus songs on Sorceress and a cover CD on Prog Magazine.
Would have loved to have that on BR....

This one will not get through my door..... lukewarm on the album and not excited about the covers. Yeah, I also think they should have waited.
Opeth should have released that instead of the new album Live at the Red Cocks Amphiteatre
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: gzarruk on September 25, 2018, 10:58:27 PM
How many bands in the planet release a studio album only to release a live right after it? The problem is that they act as if they are a very old band, respected, known. Yes, all the members are very good musicians who played in other bands before and all have a high profile. But that doesn't mean shit if you are a new band and only released one record.

That's the Portnoy way. FC has 2 studio albums and 2 live albums (one for each tour). TWD has 2 studio albums and 2 live albums (same case here). TA has more live albums than studio albums. NMB is releasing 2 live albums of the same tour this year. SOA is just following the same "MUST. RECORD. AND. RELEASE. EVERYTHING." mindset.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Kocak on September 25, 2018, 11:48:34 PM
How many bands in the planet release a studio album only to release a live right after it? The problem is that they act as if they are a very old band, respected, known. Yes, all the members are very good musicians who played in other bands before and all have a high profile. But that doesn't mean shit if you are a new band and only released one record.

That's the Portnoy way. FC has 2 studio albums and 2 live albums (one for each tour). TWD has 2 studio albums and 2 live albums (same case here). TA has more live albums than studio albums. NMB is releasing 2 live albums of the same tour this year. SOA is just following the same "MUST. RECORD. AND. RELEASE. EVERYTHING." mindset.

The question remains: Is it necessary?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Ravenfoul on September 26, 2018, 12:00:09 AM
How many bands in the planet release a studio album only to release a live right after it? The problem is that they act as if they are a very old band, respected, known. Yes, all the members are very good musicians who played in other bands before and all have a high profile. But that doesn't mean shit if you are a new band and only released one record.

That's the Portnoy way. FC has 2 studio albums and 2 live albums (one for each tour). TWD has 2 studio albums and 2 live albums (same case here). TA has more live albums than studio albums. NMB is releasing 2 live albums of the same tour this year. SOA is just following the same "MUST. RECORD. AND. RELEASE. EVERYTHING." mindset.

The question remains: Is it necessary?
For fans / people like Portnoy? Absolutely. I don't enjoy them as much as DT... but I sure as hell wish DT released basically as much as possible.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Fritzinger on September 26, 2018, 04:12:55 AM
But DT knows how to make themselves rare. With all the stuff MP is releasing, it feels like an inflation of his music...
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ReaperKK on September 26, 2018, 04:56:22 AM
How many bands in the planet release a studio album only to release a live right after it? The problem is that they act as if they are a very old band, respected, known. Yes, all the members are very good musicians who played in other bands before and all have a high profile. But that doesn't mean shit if you are a new band and only released one record.

That's the Portnoy way. FC has 2 studio albums and 2 live albums (one for each tour). TWD has 2 studio albums and 2 live albums (same case here). TA has more live albums than studio albums. NMB is releasing 2 live albums of the same tour this year. SOA is just following the same "MUST. RECORD. AND. RELEASE. EVERYTHING." mindset.

The question remains: Is it necessary?
For fans / people like Portnoy? Absolutely. I don't enjoy them as much as DT... but I sure as hell wish DT released basically as much as possible.

I think if MP wants to do it and there is profit in it, why not?

I'm not interested so I'm not buying but that doesn't mean there are other people who aren't interested in the show.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Orbert on September 26, 2018, 06:55:53 AM
Exactly.  If you don't like it or don't care, fine, don't buy it.  But if there are enough people who are into it to make it worthwhile for the band to release everything, why not?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ErHaO on September 26, 2018, 07:10:10 AM
How many bands in the planet release a studio album only to release a live right after it?

Well, Mike's other projects for one. Winery Dogs, Flying Colors, Transatlantic. Hell, the first Transatlantic live album, Live in America, is basically their first album and a series of covers/medleys. These products have been recieved well and presumably did well financially, so artists keep doing it. And I don't see the problem.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Stadler on September 26, 2018, 07:14:54 AM
Exactly.  If you don't like it or don't care, fine, don't buy it.  But if there are enough people who are into it to make it worthwhile for the band to release everything, why not?

+1

I have a hard time criticizing this, because there are bands that I WISH would release more stuff like this.   I buy all the FC and TA stuff, because I love it.  I don't buy all the Marillion live stuff, because, well, I don't.   But it's there if I want it. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: The Walrus on September 26, 2018, 07:20:12 AM
Yeah, but like, does the world really need another half-baked Comfortably Numb cover, seriously, nobody but Pink Floyd has ever nailed the true vibe that song is supposed to create
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Stadler on September 26, 2018, 07:39:25 AM
Yeah, but like, does the world really need another half-baked Comfortably Numb cover, seriously, nobody but Pink Floyd has ever nailed the true vibe that song is supposed to create

Preach; that's how I feel about virtually every Zeppelin cover ever (and why Heart's version of Stairway at the Kennedy Center was so good).   99.5% of bands do NOT get the essence of Zeppelin, and resort to volume or thud, and that's not it (it's the tempo. It's all in the fluidity of the tempo).  But I know many people disagree with me, and so there you go.  They can TRY. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: The Walrus on September 26, 2018, 07:48:41 AM
Yeah, but like, does the world really need another half-baked Comfortably Numb cover, seriously, nobody but Pink Floyd has ever nailed the true vibe that song is supposed to create

Preach; that's how I feel about virtually every Zeppelin cover ever (and why Heart's version of Stairway at the Kennedy Center was so good).   99.5% of bands do NOT get the essence of Zeppelin, and resort to volume or thud, and that's not it (it's the tempo. It's all in the fluidity of the tempo).  But I know many people disagree with me, and so there you go.  They can TRY.

FWIW, I totally agree with you there about Zeppelin too. The tempo matters so much.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on September 26, 2018, 07:53:09 AM
Yeah, but like, does the world really need another half-baked Comfortably Numb cover, seriously, nobody but Pink Floyd has ever nailed the true vibe that song is supposed to create

Preach; that's how I feel about virtually every Zeppelin cover ever (and why Heart's version of Stairway at the Kennedy Center was so good).   99.5% of bands do NOT get the essence of Zeppelin, and resort to volume or thud, and that's not it (it's the tempo. It's all in the fluidity of the tempo).  But I know many people disagree with me, and so there you go.  They can TRY.

I actually love the Zeppelin medley and Since I've Been Loving You covers by Dream Theater.

Exactly.  If you don't like it or don't care, fine, don't buy it.  But if there are enough people who are into it to make it worthwhile for the band to release everything, why not?

Agreed.  I don't get the "but why" argument.  LIke sure it seems odd to do such a big production live album when you only have one album of original material, but if there's a market for it, who needs more of a reason?  I've said all along, it's about making money and they are going to make a few bucks off me.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Indiscipline on September 26, 2018, 09:14:55 AM
Unless they axe my front door down, deposit the cd on the table and force me to pay for it at gunpoint , I have no problem with artists releasing whatever the fock they please.

Covers I love, especially when they exude the coverer's own personal style. Not very interested in philological renditions. Then again, the "you the artist, you release whatever the fock you please" corollary still applies.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Orbert on September 26, 2018, 10:21:10 AM
Ann Wilson is amazing, and most Heart covers of Led Zeppelin songs are pretty great.  But as much as I'd love to love their cover of "Stairway to Heaven" from the Kennedy Center Honors broadcast, I can't, because for some reason they chose to cut out a verse or two.  I don't remember which or where, because I've never gone back and re-watched it, but I remember clearly singing along with it, and suddenly... WTF?  We're not there yet!

I get it, it's a long song.  So you cut it from 8 minutes to 7 1/2, which is basically negligible in this context, but destroy the integrity of the song?  Sorry, that's just wrong.  Excellent performance otherwise, but it's like hearing the edited version of a favorite song on the radio.  Someone decided it was okay to just cut this part out.  No, it is not okay.  If you're going to play the song, you play the song.  You don't just play most of it.

Actually, now that I think about it, the Heart version of "The Battle of Evermore" is also pretty unlistenable because they play it so damned slow.  Why?  It's not a hard song.  It doesn't gain any gravitas.  It's just too damned slow.  Their version of "Rock and Roll" is great, though.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Evermind on September 26, 2018, 10:34:21 AM
Yeah, but like, does the world really need another half-baked Comfortably Numb cover, seriously, nobody but Pink Floyd has ever nailed the true vibe that song is supposed to create

I came here to say I appreciate the hell out of this post.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Cool Chris on September 26, 2018, 10:49:10 AM
Actually, now that I think about it, the Heart version of "The Battle of Evermore" is also pretty unlistenable because they play it so damned slow.  Why?  It's not a hard song.  It doesn't gain any gravitas.  It's just too damned slow. 

Huh I haven't heard any of their other LZ covers, but would say I might prefer their Battle of Evermore to the original. I think it is that good. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Anguyen92 on September 26, 2018, 10:49:16 AM
Ann Wilson is amazing, and most Heart covers of Led Zeppelin songs are pretty great.  But as much as I'd love to love their cover of "Stairway to Heaven" from the Kennedy Center Honors broadcast, I can't, because for some reason they chose to cut out a verse or two.  I don't remember which or where, because I've never gone back and re-watched it, but I remember clearly singing along with it, and suddenly... WTF?  We're not there yet!

I get it, it's a long song.  So you cut it from 8 minutes to 7 1/2, which is basically negligible in this context, but destroy the integrity of the song?  Sorry, that's just wrong.  Excellent performance otherwise, but it's like hearing the edited version of a favorite song on the radio.  Someone decided it was okay to just cut this part out.  No, it is not okay.  If you're going to play the song, you play the song.  You don't just play most of it.

Actually, now that I think about it, the Heart version of "The Battle of Evermore" is also pretty unlistenable because they play it so damned slow.  Why?  It's not a hard song.  It doesn't gain any gravitas.  It's just too damned slow.  Their version of "Rock and Roll" is great, though.

Well, the thing is that it is a televised broadcast and that Led Zeppelin was not the only ones that was getting the Kennedy Center Honors (I believe David Letterman was also honored that year as well).  Also, Heart was not the only ones that was doing the "abridged" version of Zeppelin songs on that night.  Foo Fighters did Rock and Roll.  Lenny Kravitz did Whole Lotta Love.  Only so much you can fit for a tv slot broadcast and it was not like the broadcast were honoring Led Zeppelin throughout the whole slot.  Doesn't make it right, however.  I, too, am for playing songs in full as it is meant to be, but I can understand the rationale behind it.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on September 26, 2018, 11:00:51 AM
Since we are on about LZ covers...

I saw Jason Bonham's LZ Experience over the summer (they opened for Foreigner and Whitesnake, awesome concert) and I found them pretty good too.  Pretty much sounded exactly like LZ.  I mean, no one is going to be LZ, but in terms of just playing the songs and trying to sound just like it, I say they did a good job.  Over The Hills and Far Away (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=upuOXg_RVt0)
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bosk1 on September 26, 2018, 11:02:41 AM
We are getting pretty far off topic now.  Can we please take the LZ convo to the Maiden thread (https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=52899.0) where it belongs?  Thanks.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: The Walrus on September 26, 2018, 11:06:30 AM
We are getting pretty far off topic now.  Can we please take the LZ convo to the Maiden thread (https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=52899.0) where it belongs?  Thanks.

 :lol
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Dublagent66 on September 26, 2018, 11:41:01 AM
Just changed my vote on SS from 7 to 8.  Not a single song on this album that I don't like.  Congrats to MP, DS and the rest of the guys for some really good work.

:clap:
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: MirrorMask on September 26, 2018, 12:13:56 PM
Ann Wilson is amazing, and most Heart covers of Led Zeppelin songs are pretty great.  But as much as I'd love to love their cover of "Stairway to Heaven" from the Kennedy Center Honors broadcast, I can't, because for some reason they chose to cut out a verse or two.  I don't remember which or where, because I've never gone back and re-watched it, but I remember clearly singing along with it, and suddenly... WTF?  We're not there yet!

I get it, it's a long song.  So you cut it from 8 minutes to 7 1/2, which is basically negligible in this context, but destroy the integrity of the song?  Sorry, that's just wrong.  Excellent performance otherwise, but it's like hearing the edited version of a favorite song on the radio.  Someone decided it was okay to just cut this part out.  No, it is not okay.  If you're going to play the song, you play the song.  You don't just play most of it.

This. So much this. The cuts prevent it from being the second best ever version of Stairway in existance (the first is the original of course).
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Stadler on September 26, 2018, 01:41:48 PM
I respect both positions, but seeing as it took me about four listens to note any significant divergence, I'm saying it doesn't matter.  I was also very moved by the circumstances, and the emotion shown by the principals.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Orbert on September 26, 2018, 02:14:52 PM
I guess we have different definitions of "significant divergence".  The performance itself was otherwise excellent, but I consider cutting out entire sections of a song to be a significant divergence.  Again, I know it's a long song, but I figured even casual Led Zeppelin fans know all the words, and would know immediately when something's been cut.

But maybe not.  I've played the song maybe a dozen times with various bands, and I think the drummer has not come in early twice.  We're just jamming, or it's a party and thus relatively low-key, but I just want to scream "You idiot!  You know that that's not where the drums come in!  You're a fucking drummer!  How can you not know that?"
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ReaperKK on September 26, 2018, 02:31:20 PM
Yeah, but like, does the world really need another half-baked Comfortably Numb cover, seriously, nobody but Pink Floyd has ever nailed the true vibe that song is supposed to create

Preach; that's how I feel about virtually every Zeppelin cover ever (and why Heart's version of Stairway at the Kennedy Center was so good).   99.5% of bands do NOT get the essence of Zeppelin, and resort to volume or thud, and that's not it (it's the tempo. It's all in the fluidity of the tempo).  But I know many people disagree with me, and so there you go.  They can TRY. 

A little off topic but one band that does get the essence of Led Zepplin is Train. When I saw them cover all of Led zep II live and it was amazing.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Ben_Jamin on September 26, 2018, 02:36:46 PM
Are we forgetting....

We're getting to hear Hells Kitchen and Lines in The Sand with an Orchestra and Choir.

I just find it odd they're not playing most of their Originals with the orchestra and choir. That's what I see people are upset about, just covers and one/two original if you count Figaros Whore of their songs with an orchestra.

Was it advertised as "Covers with an Orchestra"?

I don't mind they did this. I'll likely check out Labyrinth as that is my favorite from the album and with an orchestra should kick ass.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Adami on September 26, 2018, 03:03:09 PM
Actually, I would love to hear Figaro's Whore arranged for full orchestra and choir. Make it 30 minutes. Throw in some Tallis influence in there as well. Have MP and DS write Gregorian chants with lyrics about sucking on balls and stuff.

I'm in.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: MirrorMask on September 26, 2018, 03:15:00 PM
I just find it odd they're not playing most of their Originals with the orchestra and choir.

Why do Sign of the Times, Coming Home, Opus Maximus, Lost into Oblivion and Divine Addiction even need an orchestra anyway? either completely rearrange the song or leave rock songs as rock songs, what's the point in hearing the song exactly as it is but with violins doubling the guitars?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bosk1 on September 26, 2018, 03:22:52 PM
Because everybody knows sax and violins sells.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Ben_Jamin on September 26, 2018, 03:30:31 PM
I just find it odd they're not playing most of their Originals with the orchestra and choir.

Why do Sign of the Times, Coming Home, Opus Maximus, Lost into Oblivion and Divine Addiction even need an orchestra anyway? either completely rearrange the song or leave rock songs as rock songs, what's the point in hearing the song exactly as it is but with violins doubling the guitars?

Well they don't. But usually, the bands that played their with that orchestra all played their own songs. Anathema, Opeth, Devin Townsend.

But yeah, whatever. If the opportunity arises why not. I won't be buying, but I'm sure quite a few people will buy this just because of those covers being played with an orchestra.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bosk1 on September 26, 2018, 03:33:52 PM
I'll probably be buying it because the band puts on a pretty good show, and I would like to see that again (despite the unfortunate fact that doing so is putting money in Derek's pockets).  The covers and orchestra are just a nice bonus.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Stadler on September 26, 2018, 03:51:45 PM
IT'S SIGNS OF THE TIME!  IT'S SIGNS OF THE TIME!
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: TAC on September 26, 2018, 03:54:18 PM
I just find it odd they're not playing most of their Originals with the orchestra and choir.

Why do Sign of the Times, Coming Home, Opus Maximus, Lost into Oblivion and Divine Addiction even need an orchestra anyway? either completely rearrange the song or leave rock songs as rock songs, what's the point in hearing the song exactly as it is but with violins doubling the guitars?

Because honestly, I feel like it's just a way to repackage their album and try and sell it again. Oooohhhhh an orchestra! Do they think we are that stupid? And we're going to do covers because we don't have anything else. This is Queensryche territory. I feel sorry for this. I won't behoove any of them from making a living, but I have zero respect for this.

One thing that everyone has seen them has said, even if they weren't impressed with the album was how blown away they were with their live performance. I might entertain a live cd from some sweaty club. At least that's real.


  The covers and orchestra are just a nice bonus.

I don't think it's a bonus. I think it's deceptively distracting.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bosk1 on September 26, 2018, 04:13:53 PM
I won't behoove any of them from making a living

I have no idea what this sentence means.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: TAC on September 26, 2018, 04:40:37 PM
It means that if that’s what they need to do, I don’t want to criticize it. Kind of like QR. They do what they need to do. I mean these are grown men. I’m not going to tell them how to do their business.

Just to me, musically, like QR, the whole thing lacks integrity, for lack of a better word. By having an orchestra, in Hungary, of all places, it just reeks of trying to create buzz where there isnt any. 

Like I said, the live shows have been well received. Have confidence in that and release that. We don’t need an orchestra to further water down already watered down material.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bosk1 on September 26, 2018, 04:47:28 PM
It means that if that’s what they need to do, I don’t want to criticize it. Kind of like QR. They do what they need to do. I mean these are grown men. I’m not going to tell them how to do their business.

Then I am really confused about your word choice.  https://www.google.com/search?q=behoove&rlz=1C1QJDB_enUS800US800&oq=behoove&aqs=chrome..69i57j0l5.1407j0j8&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Shadow Ninja 2.0 on September 26, 2018, 04:51:12 PM
I'm guessing 'begrudge' was the word he intended to use.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: TAC on September 26, 2018, 04:52:30 PM
It means that if that’s what they need to do, I don’t want to criticize it. Kind of like QR. They do what they need to do. I mean these are grown men. I’m not going to tell them how to do their business.

Then I am really confused about your word choice.  https://www.google.com/search?q=behoove&rlz=1C1QJDB_enUS800US800&oq=behoove&aqs=chrome..69i57j0l5.1407j0j8&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

I wasn't an English major! :lol

I'm guessing 'begrudge' was the word he intended to use.

Yes, thank you. That is it.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Stadler on September 26, 2018, 05:53:27 PM
By having an orchestra, in Hungary, of all places, it just reeks of trying to create buzz where there isnt any. 

I kind of get the whiff of this, too.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Architeuthis on September 26, 2018, 06:13:55 PM
I'm personally very excited for this upcoming blu-ray! The Seattle show was so good that it left me hoping that they would capture this tour on film at some point.  I have no problem with the covers, plus the venue itself is classy and calls for an orchestra. It looks like they had a great turnout for the concert too. This should be pretty epic..  :metal
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Evermind on September 26, 2018, 10:38:14 PM
It means that if that’s what they need to do, I don’t want to criticize it. Kind of like QR. They do what they need to do. I mean these are grown men. I’m not going to tell them how to do their business.

Then I am really confused about your word choice.  https://www.google.com/search?q=behoove&rlz=1C1QJDB_enUS800US800&oq=behoove&aqs=chrome..69i57j0l5.1407j0j8&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

I wasn't an English major! :lol

Apparently you weren't a Geography major too, as I think the show was in Bulgaria, not Hungary. :lol

I agree with your point though.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: MirrorMask on September 27, 2018, 01:12:16 AM
IT'S SIGNS OF THE TIME!  IT'S SIGNS OF THE TIME!

I actually wondered where the plural was, I can never remember it  ;D
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: TAC on September 27, 2018, 05:56:36 AM
It means that if that’s what they need to do, I don’t want to criticize it. Kind of like QR. They do what they need to do. I mean these are grown men. I’m not going to tell them how to do their business.

Then I am really confused about your word choice.  https://www.google.com/search?q=behoove&rlz=1C1QJDB_enUS800US800&oq=behoove&aqs=chrome..69i57j0l5.1407j0j8&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

I wasn't an English major! :lol

Apparently you weren't a Geography major too, as I think the show was in Bulgaria, not Hungary. :lol

 :lol
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Stadler on September 27, 2018, 06:20:34 AM
IT'S SIGNS OF THE TIME!  IT'S SIGNS OF THE TIME!

I actually wondered where the plural was, I can never remember it  ;D

I just use the mnemonic:  what's the most difficult, least logical way of saying that?  BOOM!       ;D
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bosk1 on September 27, 2018, 07:31:30 AM
Wasn't it pretty well attended?  And aren't there a lot of people saying they look forward to buying it?  I'm not sure how that amounts to there being no buzz about it.  Not sure why people have to pretend like this is some objective travesty just because they personally aren't interested. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Architeuthis on September 27, 2018, 09:27:49 AM
Wasn't it pretty well attended?  And aren't there a lot of people saying they look forward to buying it?  I'm not sure how that amounts to there being no buzz about it.  Not sure why people have to pretend like this is some objective travesty just because they personally aren't interested.
I wish there was a "like" button so I could use it for this comment..  :tup
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: TAC on September 27, 2018, 09:38:37 AM
Wasn't it pretty well attended?  And aren't there a lot of people saying they look forward to buying it?  I'm not sure how that amounts to there being no buzz about it.  Not sure why people have to pretend like this is some objective travesty just because they personally aren't interested. 

My name is not people!!  ;D

I’ll come at it another way tonight when I have a keyboard.


Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: KevShmev on September 27, 2018, 09:56:42 AM


I’ll come at it another way tonight when I have a keyboard.

(https://www.picclickimg.com/00/s/NTAxWDE2MDA=/z/Lw0AAOSwpHpbHeLJ/$/Vintage-Casio-PT-10-Electronic-Keyboard-Piano-Portable-80s-_57.jpg)
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: JayOctavarium on September 27, 2018, 10:25:21 AM
Actually, I would love to hear Figaro's Whore arranged for full orchestra and choir. Make it 30 minutes. Throw in some Tallis influence in there as well. Have MP and DS write Gregorian chants with lyrics about sucking on balls and stuff.

I'm in.


Marry Me
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Samsara on September 27, 2018, 03:27:04 PM
I really enjoyed Sons of Apollo live, more than I enjoy their actual record. I'll be buying the live release for my collection. My hope is, the time on the road and camaraderie between them lead to a better second studio album.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Kocak on September 27, 2018, 08:48:11 PM
I hope they don't rush the second album so that we get to see the real potential of this band.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: DTA on September 28, 2018, 05:55:08 AM
I hope they don't rush the second album so that we get to see the real potential of this band.

That's impossible with MP on board. He prefers to bang these things out just to have another "product" to tour behind, thus leading to all his projects starting to sound the same nowadays.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Kocak on September 28, 2018, 12:07:37 PM
I hope they don't rush the second album so that we get to see the real potential of this band.

That's impossible with MP on board. He prefers to bang these things out just to have another "product" to tour behind, thus leading to all his projects starting to sound the same nowadays.

Well, then this band is doomed as well. I give it one more tour before MP declares the band "commercially unviable".
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bosk1 on September 28, 2018, 01:19:52 PM
If you mean "doomed" to write another really good album, I agree. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: The Walrus on September 28, 2018, 01:22:37 PM
I hope they don't rush the second album so that we get to see the real potential of this band.

That's impossible with MP on board. He prefers to bang these things out just to have another "product" to tour behind, thus leading to all his projects starting to sound the same nowadays.

Well, then this band is doomed as well. I give it one more tour before MP declares the band "commercially unviable".

(https://i.imgur.com/8SUMFfM.jpg)
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Schurftkut on September 28, 2018, 01:23:05 PM
well, JSS said in an interview that the new record wouldn't come out in 2019, because of scheduling conflicts making touring soon after release impossible.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: goo-goo on September 28, 2018, 01:36:13 PM


(https://i.imgur.com/8SUMFfM.jpg)

 :rollin

Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: devieira73 on September 28, 2018, 01:54:33 PM
well, JSS said in an interview that the new record wouldn't come out in 2019, because of scheduling conflicts making touring soon after release impossible.
Really, wow... :tdwn Do you have the link? If it's really the case, I think it's the first concrete bad sign about the future of SoA. If I remember correctly, someone of the band stated in another interview (an older one) that the band would put a lot of effort in the first 2 years (2018 and 2019) to see if things take off for them. If now they already decided kind of skip 2019 (at least for touring), definately it isn't a good sign IMO.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on September 28, 2018, 01:59:51 PM
well, JSS said in an interview that the new record wouldn't come out in 2019, because of scheduling conflicts making touring soon after release impossible.
Really, wow... :tdwn Do you have the link? If it's really the case, I think it's the first concrete bad sign about the future of SoA. If I remember correctly, someone of the band stated in another interview (an older one) that the band would put a lot of effort in the first 2 years (2018 and 2019) to see if things take off for them. If now they already decided kind of skip 2019 (at least for touring), definately it isn't a good sign IMO.

It's somewhere in this thread.  They plan on recording the album in 2019, but don't think it would be released until early 2020 because they would want to tour immediately instead of waiting until after JSS's commitments to TSO.  So I wouldn't say its a bad sign about the future, I'd say it's positive that they are talking about a follow up album.  But that does leave most of 2019 for the rest of the band to do other things, which could lead to more questions about the future I guess like say if TWD get back to work on another album.  But who knows.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Nekov on September 28, 2018, 02:03:58 PM
Does that mean MP can go and do some Flying Colors and Transatlantic? That's totally fine
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Schurftkut on September 28, 2018, 02:05:41 PM
sounds cool to me, though the sea within is also trying to tour. They now left out Daniel Gildenlow completely from the bandmember list. XD
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: devieira73 on September 28, 2018, 02:05:59 PM
Thanks for the explanation, cramx3.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Setlist Scotty on September 28, 2018, 02:09:27 PM
well, JSS said in an interview that the new record wouldn't come out in 2019, because of scheduling conflicts making touring soon after release impossible.
Really, wow... :tdwn Do you have the link? If it's really the case, I think it's the first concrete bad sign about the future of SoA. If I remember correctly, someone of the band stated in another interview (an older one) that the band would put a lot of effort in the first 2 years (2018 and 2019) to see if things take off for them. If now they already decided kind of skip 2019 (at least for touring), definately it isn't a good sign IMO.
Actually, I believe they said that everyone was setting aside all of 2018 for SoA - specifically to tour. I don't recall him making the statement that 2019 would be fully dedicated to SoA as well. And given all the other bands/projects that not only MP, but the other guys have going on, I don't think that's unreasonable nor is that a bad sign. Perhaps they'll fall into a pattern of one year being focused on SoA, and the next being focused on other things.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: gzarruk on September 28, 2018, 03:50:47 PM
sounds cool to me, though the sea within is also trying to tour. They now left out Daniel Gildenlow completely from the bandmember list. XD

Hope Casey joins full time if Daniel leaves the band.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: KevShmev on September 28, 2018, 04:38:38 PM
Does that mean MP can go and do some Flying Colors and Transatlantic? That's totally fine

With the Neal Morse Band releasing a new album (most likely) at the start of 2019 and likely to tour a lot after that, I have to think that that will occupy quite a bit of Portnoy's time in 2019. 

Neal said last week in the Inner Circle email that Flying Colors will get together in December this year with the hopes of releasing their 3rd album sometime in 2019.

Transatlantic is clearly on the backburner for now and I wouldn't count on anything from them any time soon unless they give us something definitive news-wise. Neal didn't even address them in his long Inner Circle email (which covered Morsefest and his plans for the near-future). 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Kocak on September 28, 2018, 04:59:14 PM
If you mean "doomed" to write another really good album, I agree.

Not quite what I mean.
In any case, we'll see what the future holds for these five people.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: MoraWintersoul on September 28, 2018, 05:06:36 PM
I'll probably be buying it because the band puts on a pretty good show, and I would like to see that again (despite the unfortunate fact that doing so is putting money in Derek's pockets).  The covers and orchestra are just a nice bonus.
Have I missed something he's done since his unfortunate statements round the release of the album, or is it just that?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Cool Chris on September 28, 2018, 05:13:22 PM
Perhaps they'll fall into a pattern of one year being focused on SoA, and the next being focused on other things.

Nothing like setting yourselves up as the new KINGS OF PROG METAL and then taking a year of to "focus on other things." Guess once established the kingdom will be able to survive on its own.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on September 28, 2018, 05:31:30 PM
I'll probably be buying it because the band puts on a pretty good show, and I would like to see that again (despite the unfortunate fact that doing so is putting money in Derek's pockets).  The covers and orchestra are just a nice bonus.
Have I missed something he's done since his unfortunate statements round the release of the album, or is it just that?

Welcome back, and no, I don't think he's done much more damage since then.  He's been pretty quiet for awhile now with regards to shit talking. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Stadler on September 28, 2018, 05:59:03 PM
Perhaps they'll fall into a pattern of one year being focused on SoA, and the next being focused on other things.

Nothing like setting yourselves up as the new KINGS OF PROG METAL and then taking a year of to "focus on other things." Guess once established the kingdom will be able to survive on its own.

I'm not sure that's entirely fair, though.  Mike doesn't work on the usual cycle.   Most bands - Kings of their genre or not - are not putting out albums every year. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on September 28, 2018, 06:12:01 PM
Perhaps they'll fall into a pattern of one year being focused on SoA, and the next being focused on other things.

Nothing like setting yourselves up as the new KINGS OF PROG METAL and then taking a year of to "focus on other things." Guess once established the kingdom will be able to survive on its own.

I'm not sure that's entirely fair, though.  Mike doesn't work on the usual cycle.   Most bands - Kings of their genre or not - are not putting out albums every year.

Agreed.  This argument would become more valid if there was an extended period of inactivity which based on the little info we have is not going to be the case.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ChuckSteak on September 29, 2018, 03:20:26 AM
Actually, I would love to hear Figaro's Whore arranged for full orchestra and choir. Make it 30 minutes. Throw in some Tallis influence in there as well. Have MP and DS write Gregorian chants with lyrics about sucking on balls and stuff.

I'm in.
That would have been definitely better and more interesting than playing covers.  ;D
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Adami on September 29, 2018, 09:29:19 AM
Looks like no orchestra/choir for the encore. So the only SoA song with all that is Labyrinth (and technically the keyboard diddle, for what that's worth).
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ytserush on September 30, 2018, 02:05:34 PM

Because honestly, I feel like it's just a way to repackage their album and try and sell it again. Oooohhhhh an orchestra! Do they think we are that stupid? And we're going to do covers because we don't have anything else. This is Queensryche territory. I feel sorry for this. I won't behoove any of them from making a living, but I have zero respect for this.

One thing that everyone has seen them has said, even if they weren't impressed with the album was how blown away they were with their live performance. I might entertain a live cd from some sweaty club. At least that's real.



Perhaps.  I have the album. Not blown away by it. It's OK. (Maybe a 4, 5, or 6 if I thought any about it.)

I knew they would be better live, but I wasn't willing to invest the time an effort to get to either of the shows I would have gone to (One on each leg) because I knew it wasn't going to have any memorable lasting impact on me.

At least with this live album, I know I'm going to get a road tested band and I'll (likely) have better versions of these songs which I might enjoy more than I currently do.

I won't preorder this, but I'll probably pick it up eventually like I did the studio album. If they enjoyed this as much as they say they did, it should show up in the recording and that would be a bonus for me.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: TAC on September 30, 2018, 02:07:09 PM
I will definitely give a listen to the live versions of the album tracks.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ytserush on September 30, 2018, 02:14:11 PM
Wasn't it pretty well attended?  And aren't there a lot of people saying they look forward to buying it?  I'm not sure how that amounts to there being no buzz about it.  Not sure why people have to pretend like this is some objective travesty just because they personally aren't interested.

What's an objective travesty? What's the definition of that?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ytserush on September 30, 2018, 02:14:52 PM
Wasn't it pretty well attended?  And aren't there a lot of people saying they look forward to buying it?  I'm not sure how that amounts to there being no buzz about it.  Not sure why people have to pretend like this is some objective travesty just because they personally aren't interested. 

My name is not people!!  ;D

I’ll come at it another way tonight when I have a keyboard.

Is there any other way to come at it?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Schurftkut on October 05, 2018, 06:27:23 AM
So the show last night in De Boerderij was filmed, anyone know if this will show up somewhere?

setlist.fm is wrong btw, they also played Hell's Kitchen..
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: devieira73 on October 05, 2018, 06:53:45 AM
Professionally filmed? If so, cool! It will be maybe a bonus material for the DVD or an official bootleg, no? And it will be good to watch the band in his more natural environment, so to speak.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on October 05, 2018, 06:54:19 AM
So the show last night in De Boerderij was filmed, anyone know if this will show up somewhere?

setlist.fm is wrong btw, they also played Hell's Kitchen..

They said it was filmed or you saw cameras?  Maybe for a music video or bonus video for their DVD they filmed a couple weeks ago.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Schurftkut on October 05, 2018, 06:59:17 AM
pretty much all stationary cameras, i counted about 20, and there was one guy in front of the stage with a handicam. Soto did mention it, but couldn't say anything about it really.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Stadler on October 05, 2018, 07:38:20 AM
Didn't Mike mention the filming in a tweet?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: goo-goo on October 05, 2018, 07:41:15 AM
Professionally filmed? If so, cool! It will be maybe a bonus material for the DVD or an official bootleg, no? And it will be good to watch the band in his more natural environment, so to speak.

Would definitely get this if released.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Dublagent66 on October 05, 2018, 09:14:53 AM
I hope they don't rush the second album so that we get to see the real potential of this band.

I've already seen the real potential of this band.  The only question is, will they run with it?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ProfessorPeart on October 05, 2018, 09:21:14 AM
Mike said the filming is just for some backup footage for his band archives. Sounds like it won't be released.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Stadler on October 05, 2018, 09:32:19 AM
Twenty cameras for "backup footage"? 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on October 05, 2018, 09:33:19 AM
Mike said the filming is just for some backup footage for his band archives. Sounds like it won't be released.

So for release when SOA is in the past and they are looking to milk it some more?  I dont understand the cost of filming a concert just for archives. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: gzarruk on October 05, 2018, 10:45:07 AM
Mike said the filming is just for some backup footage for his band archives. Sounds like it won't be released.

So for release when SOA is in the past and they are looking to milk it some more?  I dont understand the cost of filming a concert just for archives.

My bet is that they'll release it when SOA is inactive for a couple years while Mike is doing something else.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Schurftkut on October 05, 2018, 01:11:41 PM
The thing that stood out for me watching the show, is MP being the least entertaining bandmember. Really taking a backseat and playing his parts. Releasing this footage to overbridge next year, or adding it to the bluray for Plovdiv to show a "club" concert might be a good idea.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Madman Shepherd on October 05, 2018, 01:56:46 PM
Mike said the filming is just for some backup footage for his band archives. Sounds like it won't be released.

So for release when SOA is in the past and they are looking to milk it some more?  I dont understand the cost of filming a concert just for archives.

My bet is that they'll release it when SOA is inactive for a couple years while Mike is doing something else.

So...next year?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: goo-goo on October 05, 2018, 03:12:37 PM
Mike said the filming is just for some backup footage for his band archives. Sounds like it won't be released.

So for release when SOA is in the past and they are looking to milk it some more?  I dont understand the cost of filming a concert just for archives.

My bet is that they'll release it when SOA is inactive for a couple years while Mike is doing something else.

I think he will pull a Neal Morse...he has done it lately with NMB and Similitude of a Dream and did it with Transatlantic (2 live releases from each tour).
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: goo-goo on October 05, 2018, 03:16:01 PM
The thing that stood out for me watching the show, is MP being the least entertaining bandmember. Really taking a backseat and playing his parts.

Was kind of surprised by this as well when I saw them in Orlando earlier in the year. With DT, I think it is fair to say the rest of the guys were quiet/introvert and just concnetrated on the playing. And JLB wasn't really a frontman during the MP years. It was more of MP taking that role.

With SoA, I think JSS does a good job of handling the crowd. I guess there's no need of hogging the "frontman" gig with SoA.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: KevShmev on October 05, 2018, 05:30:51 PM
It could simply be a cause of him getting older and not having as much energy at every live show.  I saw the Neal Morse Band three times last year and he looked fairly subdued at all three shows (relative to the energy he used to have back in the day when I saw Dream Theater).  I suspect that is fairly normal, as Father Time gets us all, and no matter how active you are and how good a shape you are in, it is nearly impossible to maintain the same energy level in your 40's and 50's that you had in your 20's and 30's.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Bertielee on October 06, 2018, 06:41:56 AM
I suspect that is fairly normal, as Father Time gets us all, and no matter how active you are and how good a shape you are in, it is nearly impossible to maintain the same energy level in your 40's and 50's that you had in your 20's and 30's.

That's what I tell myself when I play tennis against my 16-year-old son.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Fritzinger on October 06, 2018, 08:49:47 AM
It could simply be a cause of him getting older and not having as much energy at every live show.  I saw the Neal Morse Band three times last year and he looked fairly subdued at all three shows (relative to the energy he used to have back in the day when I saw Dream Theater).  I suspect that is fairly normal, as Father Time gets us all, and no matter how active you are and how good a shape you are in, it is nearly impossible to maintain the same energy level in your 40's and 50's that you had in your 20's and 30's.

Unless you're Bruce Springsteen.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on October 06, 2018, 09:06:11 AM
It could simply be a cause of him getting older and not having as much energy at every live show.  I saw the Neal Morse Band three times last year and he looked fairly subdued at all three shows (relative to the energy he used to have back in the day when I saw Dream Theater).  I suspect that is fairly normal, as Father Time gets us all, and no matter how active you are and how good a shape you are in, it is nearly impossible to maintain the same energy level in your 40's and 50's that you had in your 20's and 30's.

Unless you're Bruce Springsteen. Dickinson

Another example.  I'm not entirely sure it's age, I think he just isn't the main attraction in SOA IMO, not a knock on him, just that BB and JSS really steal the show.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: KevShmev on October 06, 2018, 09:30:53 AM
Sure, there are exceptions, but I think what I said holds up as a general rule.  Plus, when you think about how taxing drummer is, with all four limbs going every which way for 2+ hours a night, that would age anybody.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Bertielee on October 06, 2018, 02:11:11 PM
It could simply be a cause of him getting older and not having as much energy at every live show.  I saw the Neal Morse Band three times last year and he looked fairly subdued at all three shows (relative to the energy he used to have back in the day when I saw Dream Theater).  I suspect that is fairly normal, as Father Time gets us all, and no matter how active you are and how good a shape you are in, it is nearly impossible to maintain the same energy level in your 40's and 50's that you had in your 20's and 30's.

Unless you're Bruce Springsteen. Dickinson

Another example.  I'm not entirely sure it's age, I think he just isn't the main attraction in SOA IMO, not a knock on him, just that BB and JSS really steal the show.

JSS I get, but who is BB : Billy Beehan, BumbleBoot or Berek Berinian? :biggrin:
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on October 06, 2018, 02:54:42 PM
 :rollin bumblebee I guess
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ProfessorPeart on October 06, 2018, 03:53:50 PM
Billy Bumblefoot.

Both of them holding double-necks is confusing so you merged them.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: The Walrus on October 06, 2018, 04:34:15 PM
Two necks at the same time, man.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: deggs37 on October 06, 2018, 11:30:55 PM
Two necks at the same time, man.

Hey Peter, man. Check out this band! It's the new kings of prog!
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ProfessorPeart on October 07, 2018, 09:55:18 AM
Two necks at the same time, man.

Hey Peter, man. Check out this band! It's the new kings of prog!

Awesome, deep reference. Love it!

(https://cdn.mcstatic.com/contents/videos_screenshots/7430000/7430292/preview.jpg)
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: The Walrus on October 07, 2018, 10:29:38 AM
I gotta wake my ass up at 6 AM every day this week, drag up to Las Colinas. Yeah I'm doin' the drywall up there at the new McDonald's.  :lol For some reason that's one of my favorite lines in the whole movie, that entire scene is classic.

"Nah... nah, man. Hell nah. I believe you get your ass kicked sayin' something like that."
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: RodrigoAltaf on October 07, 2018, 04:06:10 PM
I gotta wake my ass up at 6 AM every day this week, drag up to Las Colinas. Yeah I'm doin' the drywall up there at the new McDonald's.  :lol For some reason that's one of my favorite lines in the whole movie, that entire scene is classic.

"Nah... nah, man. Hell nah. I believe you get your ass kicked sayin' something like that."

That's a great movie... it's a shame that the ending seems so rushed.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Nachtmerrie on October 08, 2018, 12:18:41 PM
Saw them live at ProgPower Europa. I agree with a lot of you that the album was a little underwhelming but they kick some serious ass live.
Great sound and lots of energy, especially JSS & Bumblefoot who have a great connection on stage.
One of the best shows I've seen this year.

I really think this can work longtime IF they are committed. Don't wait another year but start writing and recording while you have build some momentum.
Do another clubtour in spring 2019 with some festivals in the summer.

In the end they have to decide whether it's a real band or just another project, especially MP I guess.
I would love to Bumblefoot and JSS continue. BS en MP are replaceable IMHO, don't know about DS.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Architeuthis on October 08, 2018, 02:02:24 PM




In the end they have to decide whether it's a real band or just another project, especially MP I guess.
I would love to Bumblefoot and JSS continue. BS en MP are replaceable IMHO, don't know about DS.
Maybe, but who in their right mind would want to replace MP on drums, or BS on bass?  I guess the only reason would be that they are spread too thin with other projects. I think the band would suffer without MP as he has good compositional skills and is very creative..
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Adami on October 08, 2018, 03:21:48 PM




In the end they have to decide whether it's a real band or just another project, especially MP I guess.
I would love to Bumblefoot and JSS continue. BS en MP are replaceable IMHO, don't know about DS.
Maybe, but who in their right mind would want to replace MP on drums, or BS on bass?  I guess the only reason would be that they are spread too thin with other projects. I think the band would suffer without MP as he has good compositional skills and is very creative..

Replacing MP in SOA isn't a tough task. Same with BS. In other bands? Sure, huge issue. But this band? a ton of drummers/bassists can do the exact same job, if not better.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Fritzinger on October 09, 2018, 05:54:08 AM




In the end they have to decide whether it's a real band or just another project, especially MP I guess.
I would love to Bumblefoot and JSS continue. BS en MP are replaceable IMHO, don't know about DS.
Maybe, but who in their right mind would want to replace MP on drums, or BS on bass?  I guess the only reason would be that they are spread too thin with other projects. I think the band would suffer without MP as he has good compositional skills and is very creative..

Replacing MP in SOA isn't a tough task. Same with BS. In other bands? Sure, huge issue. But this band? a ton of drummers/bassists can do the exact same job, if not better.

That would seriously erase the last reason for me to listen to SoA. I have no desire to listen to some generic hard rock music unless it has at least MPs great, characteristic drumming in it.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: DTA on October 09, 2018, 07:01:44 AM
He's got nowhere else to go though. Could you imagine him starting another band and trying to gain any momentum knowing that TWD, SoA, and AM were all ended prematurely? He's got to know that SoA is basically his last resort and the only thing he could do otherwise is join a band that already has a pre-existing audience like he did with A7X.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Adami on October 09, 2018, 07:04:53 AM
He's got nowhere else to go though. Could you imagine him starting another band and trying to gain any momentum knowing that TWD, SoA, and AM were all ended prematurely? He's got to know that SoA is basically his last resort and the only thing he could do otherwise is join a band that already has a pre-existing audience like he did with A7X.

I feel like he'll do both. Not a band anywhere near as big as A7X, probably more like when he played with Twisted Sister. But he'll definitely try to form another new band at some point in the next 5 years.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on October 09, 2018, 07:10:18 AM
He's got nowhere else to go though. Could you imagine him starting another band and trying to gain any momentum knowing that TWD, SoA, and AM were all ended prematurely? He's got to know that SoA is basically his last resort and the only thing he could do otherwise is join a band that already has a pre-existing audience like he did with A7X.

I feel like he'll do both. Not a band anywhere near as big as A7X, probably more like when he played with Twisted Sister. But he'll definitely try to form another new band at some point in the next 5 years.

A lot can happen in 5 years so that is definitely a possibility but I kind of agree with DTA, that SOA does feel like a last resort for a new MP project at this time.  MP can fall back to TWD and NMB during their break, but I think he kind of needs to stick with SOA for another album and tour at minimum to not take any further damage to his reputation for leaving bands.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: The Walrus on October 09, 2018, 07:12:00 AM
Maybe MP is the one who needed a creative hiatus... hm.  :justjen
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: mikeyd23 on October 09, 2018, 07:33:02 AM
He's got nowhere else to go though. Could you imagine him starting another band and trying to gain any momentum knowing that TWD, SoA, and AM were all ended prematurely? He's got to know that SoA is basically his last resort and the only thing he could do otherwise is join a band that already has a pre-existing audience like he did with A7X.

I feel like he'll do both. Not a band anywhere near as big as A7X, probably more like when he played with Twisted Sister. But he'll definitely try to form another new band at some point in the next 5 years months.

Fixed.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Adami on October 09, 2018, 07:35:41 AM
Well, I feel like he's pretty busy for the next 2 years or so with other bands. So I said 5 years cause he hasn't (yet) projected that far out.

I also feel like the next new band we get will attempt to be more "classic prog" as opposed to all the metal stuff he's trying to do these days. And when I say classic prog, I mean like 70's era mixed with some modern influences. Just a hunch.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: mikeyd23 on October 09, 2018, 07:43:12 AM
Well, I feel like he's pretty busy for the next 2 years or so with other bands. So I said 5 years cause he hasn't (yet) projected that far out.

I also feel like the next new band we get will attempt to be more "classic prog" as opposed to all the metal stuff he's trying to do these days. And when I say classic prog, I mean like 70's era mixed with some modern influences. Just a hunch.

Hah, yeah I was just kidding around, you're probably spot on.

Interesting take on the "classic prog" band, he might form something like that - or would he just reunite Transatlantic for another album?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: The Walrus on October 09, 2018, 07:44:47 AM
It's actually gonna be called the Trans-Pacific Partnership.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Adami on October 09, 2018, 07:46:11 AM
Well, I feel like he's pretty busy for the next 2 years or so with other bands. So I said 5 years cause he hasn't (yet) projected that far out.

I also feel like the next new band we get will attempt to be more "classic prog" as opposed to all the metal stuff he's trying to do these days. And when I say classic prog, I mean like 70's era mixed with some modern influences. Just a hunch.

Hah, yeah I was just kidding around, you're probably spot on.

Interesting take on the "classic prog" band, he might form something like that - or would he just reunite Transatlantic for another album?

I mean, he might do both. But when I say a new classic prog band, I feel like it'll be a brand new "super group." Not sure who, but there's gotta be plenty of guys in their 50's/60's that he can wrangle up for it.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Stadler on October 09, 2018, 08:07:39 AM
I'm a Mike guy, and want to be as supportive and positive as I can, but I don't see him moving in a more "prog" direction; I don't see him at 65 dressed in white and doing a "Jon Anderson" or a Bill Bruford.   I see this going in a different direction, striving every year to show more and more the "METAL CRED!"    I hope and pray I'm wrong, because I just don't want to see him as that guy who's played in every half-ass LA metal band, who's still got the leather cowboy/police hat, the bad facial hair, the full sleeve, the forty chains around his neck pretending that it's still 1987.   

(https://i.imgur.com/HlNxwup.jpg)
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Adami on October 09, 2018, 08:10:22 AM
Maybe. But I'm also thinking he might be getting a bit burned on the METAL stuff. He always has that Metal Allegiance stuff too. And I doubt he'll ever STOP playing metal. I just feel like the next "super" group will be more classic prog than metal. Could be wrong.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on October 09, 2018, 08:12:43 AM
I think MP wants to make money and that's not doing prog.  I could also see him going more metal route, but honestly, I feel TWD are his best bet.  I think they will for sure get back together for another album and tour. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Destiny Of Chaos on October 09, 2018, 08:41:27 AM
Is it possible that Mike P. is talked about (to the point of obsession) more than any other (current or former) member of Dream Theater, let alone any musician? I'm sure Mike would appreciate that!
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Adami on October 09, 2018, 08:45:51 AM
Is it possible that Mike P. is talked about (to the point of obsession) more than any other (current or former) member of Dream Theater, let alone any musician? I'm sure Mike would appreciate that!

Obsession? Don't see that anywhere here. But to be fair, he does give us more to talk about than any other DT member.

DT have largely been quiet with a few very well calculated posts about the new album. MP just says and does whatever, whenever, and often. Gives us a lot of conversation fuel.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Anxiety35 on October 09, 2018, 04:17:50 PM
8 years after leaving DT we're seeing that nothing MP has thrown on the wall has stuck as a long term, full time gig. He's done a lot but he hasn't found the one band where it's become his main thing. Many projects equal different revenue streams but as an artist I'm sure he would like to have one band be his main priority (a secure foundation like DT was) and the side projects be just for fun. Now the projects are  instead required, at least from an income standpoint. He hops from one thing to the next. I know he likes the various things he's involved with, but I can't help but wonder if he desires a main band again. 

Honestly, I don't ever see MP doing just one main gig anymore. I think he really has tried with SOA. It's not a sinking ship, but I don't believe it went where he thought it would go thus far.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bosk1 on October 09, 2018, 04:30:47 PM
8 years after leaving DT we're seeing that nothing MP has thrown on the wall has stuck as a long term, full time gig.
Okay.  But I'm not sure he has really tried to make any one project "stick" as a single, full-time gig.  I mean, obviously, he misunderstood his role with A7X even though they had only contracted with him through December of that year and had said they were going to find a full-time replacement for Rev at the end of that.  But aside from that, in every project he has been a part of, he hitched himself to other musicians who had other things going on.  It looks a lot to me like he hasn't really wanted to hitch himself to a single, full-time gig.  I mean, maybe he was hoping TWD would turn into that, and I think he is still hoping SOA will (time will tell).  But I don't think he has shown that that is really what he is pursuing at this point, outside of SOA.  I mean, maybe that would have changed if the right opportunity would have presented itself.  But we don't know.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: MoraWintersoul on October 10, 2018, 06:14:22 AM
He's got nowhere else to go though. Could you imagine him starting another band and trying to gain any momentum knowing that TWD, SoA, and AM were all ended prematurely? He's got to know that SoA is basically his last resort and the only thing he could do otherwise is join a band that already has a pre-existing audience like he did with A7X.

Please don't take this the wrong way, but when I read this post I had a feeling I was living in an alternate reality. I know us fans would love to see a definite resolution to this "can Mike Portnoy prove Dream Theater they were wrong for firing him by forming another band that's successful while playing by his rules, or not "-story (or however else you would like to phrase that story), but there are several more stories going on here that I thought I'd try to take a crack at.

For one, Mike is also a person with an inbuilt fanbase, he's a highly acclaimed drummer, with a fantastic business sense. There's no way someone wouldn't want Mike Portnoy in their band, even if he has a bit of a reputation as a band-starter, because you can do so much worse in a metal band (google The Faceless or Nachmystium). The "problem" is that not a lot of professional musicians around his age interested in his kind of music will be taking breaks from their bands or leave them entirely for long enough to make a project and make it really stick as a full time gig. The best case scenario for him if he wanted a full time gig would be if another previously occupied musician of his caliber were to find himself bandless, and they jammed together and clicked and formed a band with a few slightly lesser known people. Otherwise I can see him getting joining an established band, but that would be Jeff-Loomis-joins-Arch-Enemy type of situation, no matter what band it would be.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: MirrorMask on October 10, 2018, 06:37:04 AM
Please don't take this the wrong way, but when I read this post I had a feeling I was living in an alternate reality. I know us fans would love to see a definite resolution to this "can Mike Portnoy prove Dream Theater they were wrong for firing him by forming another band that's successful while playing by his rules, or not "-story (or however else you would like to phrase that story),

Well, for starters, I would phrase it by saying that he left the band, since he wasn't fired.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: IDontNotDoThings on October 10, 2018, 06:42:15 AM
Please don't take this the wrong way, but when I read this post I had a feeling I was living in an alternate reality. I know us fans would love to see a definite resolution to this "can Mike Portnoy prove Dream Theater they were wrong for firing him by forming another band that's successful while playing by his rules, or not "-story (or however else you would like to phrase that story),

Well, for starters, I would phrase it by saying that he left the band, since he wasn't fired.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kj_8E3FOU4s
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Adami on October 10, 2018, 07:01:29 AM
He's got nowhere else to go though. Could you imagine him starting another band and trying to gain any momentum knowing that TWD, SoA, and AM were all ended prematurely? He's got to know that SoA is basically his last resort and the only thing he could do otherwise is join a band that already has a pre-existing audience like he did with A7X.

Please don't take this the wrong way, but when I read this post I had a feeling I was living in an alternate reality. I know us fans would love to see a definite resolution to this "can Mike Portnoy prove Dream Theater they were wrong for firing him by forming another band that's successful while playing by his rules, or not "-story (or however else you would like to phrase that story), but there are several more stories going on here that I thought I'd try to take a crack at.

For one, Mike is also a person with an inbuilt fanbase, he's a highly acclaimed drummer, with a fantastic business sense. There's no way someone wouldn't want Mike Portnoy in their band, even if he has a bit of a reputation as a band-starter, because you can do so much worse in a metal band (google The Faceless or Nachmystium). The "problem" is that not a lot of professional musicians around his age interested in his kind of music will be taking breaks from their bands or leave them entirely for long enough to make a project and make it really stick as a full time gig. The best case scenario for him if he wanted a full time gig would be if another previously occupied musician of his caliber were to find himself bandless, and they jammed together and clicked and formed a band with a few slightly lesser known people. Otherwise I can see him getting joining an established band, but that would be Jeff-Loomis-joins-Arch-Enemy type of situation, no matter what band it would be.

Well, MirrorMask covered one important point. But your point that no band wouldn't want Portnoy, I can think of at least two big bands that have thus declined his services. And those are just the public ones. Most bands (and this pains me to say as a drummer, myself) want a drummer who will sit back and be a drummer. Portnoy (and I identify with this too) is not JUST a drummer. So a lot of bands won't want to take all that on.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: MoraWintersoul on October 10, 2018, 07:28:22 AM
But your point that no band wouldn't want Portnoy, I can think of at least two big bands that have thus declined his services.
I meant in the sense of starting a new band. I don't know how many already established bands would consider taking him on because there are existing dynamics, in new bands dynamics are what you make of them. Times are rough in the music industry, you need to assemble bands with maximum possible inbuilt fandom and cred as you possibly can, promote them non stop, have connections in the industry and know the best possible producers, promoters etc if you want to get your name out there. To have a drummer who can do all that is a big plus.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: mikeyd23 on October 10, 2018, 07:51:26 AM
Please don't take this the wrong way, but when I read this post I had a feeling I was living in an alternate reality. I know us fans would love to see a definite resolution to this "can Mike Portnoy prove Dream Theater they were wrong for firing him by forming another band that's successful while playing by his rules, or not "-story (or however else you would like to phrase that story),

Well, for starters, I would phrase it by saying that he left the band, since he wasn't fired.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kj_8E3FOU4s

I was hoping it was Lars. And it was.  :tup
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: MirrorMask on October 10, 2018, 08:10:47 AM
I knew it was that even before opening the link  :lol
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bosk1 on October 10, 2018, 08:13:10 AM
I can think of at least two big bands that have thus declined his services

Do tell, please.  I would like to know who they are.  I am assuming one that you are referring to as A7X.  But "declined his services" is not really accurate, at least in the context we are discussing.  And I have no idea who the other one is that you are referring to.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Grappler on October 10, 2018, 08:29:09 AM
To be fair, Mike was "just a drummer" when he toured with Twisted Sister and certainly stated that in interviews, confirming that he wasn't there to do anything else but help out the band in a time of need.

So he's fully capable of doing what he is asked to do, if needed. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: TAC on October 10, 2018, 08:31:15 AM
I can think of at least two big bands that have thus declined his services

Do tell, please.  I would like to know who they are.  I am assuming one that you are referring to as A7X.  But "declined his services" is not really accurate, at least in the context we are discussing.  And I have no idea who the other one is that you are referring to.

Maybe he's thinking Dream Theater, since MP did offer to come back after they hired Mangini.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Adami on October 10, 2018, 08:51:54 AM
I can think of at least two big bands that have thus declined his services

Do tell, please.  I would like to know who they are.  I am assuming one that you are referring to as A7X.  But "declined his services" is not really accurate, at least in the context we are discussing.  And I have no idea who the other one is that you are referring to.

Yes, A7X and also Dream Theater after he tried to come back. You can disagree with my wording, but the general sentiment makes sense. They each had very different reasons, which is fine, but they both still declined the chance to have him in the band full time. The specifics aren't terribly important since my response was to the idea that no band would not want Portnoy. Mora has since clarified her point though, which my response didn't apply to.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bosk1 on October 10, 2018, 08:54:39 AM
Well, yeah, a band that "declines his services" because there isn't currently an opening is different than a band with an opening taking a pass.  "Declined his services" implies the latter.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Adami on October 10, 2018, 08:57:24 AM
Well, yeah, a band that "declines his services" because there isn't currently an opening is different than a band with an opening taking a pass.  "Declined his services" implies the latter.

I did not imply the latter, but I understand the point. Overall, it's not a major point (mine, not yours). It was part of a larger theme that not every band would want Portnoy specifically to join them.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Stadler on October 10, 2018, 09:11:11 AM
20 years on, and I'm still not comfortable with the pat, concise, "He wasn't fired, he quit" summary.  It was (and in my mind, still is) far more complex than that.   It's like saying "my marriage ended because my wife cheated".  Yeah, that was a significant part, but it's FAR more complex than that, and only the ex and I know what really happened, including the dynamics, the emotions, the back-and-forth, etc.   
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Adami on October 10, 2018, 09:37:41 AM
20 years on, and I'm still not comfortable with the pat, concise, "He wasn't fired, he quit" summary.  It was (and in my mind, still is) far more complex than that.   It's like saying "my marriage ended because my wife cheated".  Yeah, that was a significant part, but it's FAR more complex than that, and only the ex and I know what really happened, including the dynamics, the emotions, the back-and-forth, etc.

No, it'd be more like saying "My marriage ended because my wife filed for divorce." The whole "he quit" doesn't get into reasons or back story. It's just the action. He did, in fact, quit. That is hard to disagree with. If you're uncomfortable with the implications, that's fine, but he did.....quit.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ErHaO on October 10, 2018, 10:00:10 AM
20 years on, and I'm still not comfortable with the pat, concise, "He wasn't fired, he quit" summary.  It was (and in my mind, still is) far more complex than that.   It's like saying "my marriage ended because my wife cheated".  Yeah, that was a significant part, but it's FAR more complex than that, and only the ex and I know what really happened, including the dynamics, the emotions, the back-and-forth, etc.

No, it'd be more like saying "My marriage ended because my wife filed for divorce." The whole "he quit" doesn't get into reasons or back story. It's just the action. He did, in fact, quit. That is hard to disagree with. If you're uncomfortable with the implications, that's fine, but he did.....quit.

I agree, that he quit is a fact, it is what happened. But what led to that event can be a long series of events/a lot of factors. And only the people involved really know the extent of that.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bosk1 on October 10, 2018, 10:09:01 AM
Yes.  But Stadler's point is simply that, although "he quit" is technically true, it is also misleading because it is only part of a much more nuanced picture.  From what we do know from what was publicly release by both sides, a more accurate statement would be something along the lines of, "Portnoy and the band reached an impasse about the direction of the band.  Portnoy felt as though the situation essentially confronted him with an ultimatum:  either continuing in a direction he felt was counterproductive to the band and himself, or leaving the band.  So he reluctantly chose to leave the band." 

On the flip side, while more accurate, that is too wordy for most conversations, especially where the participants in the conversation already know (or should know) what happened.  But it just depends on context.  For those that know the scoop, I guess "he quit" is fine, even though it still feels like a unfair dig at Portnoy by omitting key facts and implying a completely one-sided decision. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Architeuthis on October 10, 2018, 10:32:21 AM
Kind of like a "Stalemate".. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Stadler on October 10, 2018, 11:24:42 AM
"He quit" is kind of like saying "Stephanie Clifford breached her contract." 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: MirrorMask on October 10, 2018, 11:37:34 AM
Derek Sherinian was fired. "Listen Derek, you're cool and all, but we have a prog boner for Jordan Rudess. Sorry, you're out". He didn't have a choice.

Mike had a choice: suck it up, accept that all of his bandmembers did not want to take a break, and convince himself that it was ok to go on immediately into another album / tour cycle. As far as what has been released to the public goes, I don't think anybody told him "We don't want to work with you anymore no matter what". Sure, I understand that he was in a tough place and he was between the hammer and the anvil - be unhappy in his band, or happy out of his band - , but he did have a choice that Derek didn't.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: SwedishGoose on October 10, 2018, 11:44:17 AM
Exactly that.... he choose to leave he was not fired or forced to leave. He did have a disagreement with the other four members of the band over taking a hiatus (at first he wanted an undefined hiatus, then he changed that to five years). I see no reason why the others should have agreed to that.
His leaving the band rests solely on his shoulders, in my humble opinion.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Adami on October 10, 2018, 11:44:46 AM
"He quit" is kind of like saying "Stephanie Clifford breached her contract."

Damn you for making me google who that is!
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Stadler on October 10, 2018, 11:54:08 AM
"He quit" is kind of like saying "Stephanie Clifford breached her contract."

Damn you for making me google who that is!

"Stormy Daniels" is the worst porn name ever.   Well, maybe not the worst - Syphilia Schenker would be worse - but it's not good.  I refuse to use it. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Adami on October 10, 2018, 11:56:28 AM
Headline: Stadler compares MP to a porn star, and DT (Dream Theater) to DT (Donald Trump)

Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Nachtmerrie on October 10, 2018, 12:05:27 PM




In the end they have to decide whether it's a real band or just another project, especially MP I guess.
I would love to Bumblefoot and JSS continue. BS en MP are replaceable IMHO, don't know about DS.
Maybe, but who in their right mind would want to replace MP on drums, or BS on bass?  I guess the only reason would be that they are spread too thin with other projects. I think the band would suffer without MP as he has good compositional skills and is very creative..

DT found someone to replace MP so why  not SOA. I don't think SOA would suffer that much. He's taken more of a backseat live because JSS and BF are the main focus. In terms of compositional skills I think BF & DS are the main writers but may be wrong with that.

In the end I think this band suffers more if they wait too long before releasing a new album and continue touring to build their name.
As much as I like Mike Portnoy I would say he is replaceable.

Wouldn't it be be better for him to choose his main priorities instead of doing all this bands and projects.

For example: commit fully to SOA and NMB and do the occasional side project with Neal Morse like Flying Colors or Transatlantic or commit fully to one band (SOA or NMB) and do all the projects you want.

By not making a choice it feels likes he's holding back both SOA and NMB.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Anxiety35 on October 10, 2018, 03:18:25 PM
8 years after leaving DT we're seeing that nothing MP has thrown on the wall has stuck as a long term, full time gig.
Okay.  But I'm not sure he has really tried to make any one project "stick" as a single, full-time gig.  I mean, obviously, he misunderstood his role with A7X even though they had only contracted with him through December of that year and had said they were going to find a full-time replacement for Rev at the end of that.  But aside from that, in every project he has been a part of, he hitched himself to other musicians who had other things going on.  It looks a lot to me like he hasn't really wanted to hitch himself to a single, full-time gig.  I mean, maybe he was hoping TWD would turn into that, and I think he is still hoping SOA will (time will tell).  But I don't think he has shown that that is really what he is pursuing at this point, outside of SOA.  I mean, maybe that would have changed if the right opportunity would have presented itself.  But we don't know.

Good point. I remember MP saying a while back after the DT split that he's glad he has the freedom to be a part of all of these projects, or something to that effect. I can't help but wonder if he was in some small way hoping that something would turn into the main thing. Obviously, not Trnasatlantic, Flying Colours, or other groups where members are in a main band. Something like TWD or SOA or Neal Morse Band would be more apt for a full time band.

Also, I don't think for a minute that MP wants to "one up" DT or anything like that. I don't believe his mission is to prove DT wrong just as I don't believe DT's mission is to prove MP wrong.

I think SOA should be quick to release a sophomore effort. Not rush it, but don't wait 5 years either. I think after the touring and spending more time together they could gel and come up with some good stuff for a second release. It's easy to throw 5 musicians in a room and say, "come up with some songs" but band chemistry matters. Therefore, a follow up may surprise us in a good way.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: pg1067 on October 10, 2018, 04:02:32 PM
20 years on, and I'm still not comfortable with the pat, concise, "He wasn't fired, he quit" summary. . . .

20 years???


Mike had a choice: suck it up, accept that all of his bandmembers did not want to take a break, and convince himself that it was ok to go on immediately into another album / tour cycle. As far as what has been released to the public goes, I don't think anybody told him "We don't want to work with you anymore no matter what". Sure, I understand that he was in a tough place and he was between the hammer and the anvil - be unhappy in his band, or happy out of his band - , but he did have a choice that Derek didn't.

Yup.


Also, I don't think for a minute that MP wants to "one up" DT or anything like that. I don't believe his mission is to prove DT wrong just as I don't believe DT's mission is to prove MP wrong.

Not really directing this question at you (esp. since you're saying that this isn't what's happening), but what is there to prove anyone "wrong" about?  Mike wanted a break.  DT didn't.  Those aren't things that can be "right" or "wrong."  The only thing that anyone could have been "wrong" about is whether DT would have been better off if MP had gotten his way.  Needless to say, that's (a) subjective and (b) unprovable.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Dublagent66 on October 10, 2018, 04:12:40 PM
Just bumped my vote up to 9.  I think the only thing that keeps it from being a 10 is Figaro's Whore.:biggrin:  Not that it's a bad thing.  Just wish they would've made that a full length song.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Madman Shepherd on October 10, 2018, 04:17:25 PM
8 years after leaving DT we're seeing that nothing MP has thrown on the wall has stuck as a long term, full time gig.
Okay.  But I'm not sure he has really tried to make any one project "stick" as a single, full-time gig.  I mean, obviously, he misunderstood his role with A7X even though they had only contracted with him through December of that year and had said they were going to find a full-time replacement for Rev at the end of that.  But aside from that, in every project he has been a part of, he hitched himself to other musicians who had other things going on.  It looks a lot to me like he hasn't really wanted to hitch himself to a single, full-time gig.  I mean, maybe he was hoping TWD would turn into that, and I think he is still hoping SOA will (time will tell).  But I don't think he has shown that that is really what he is pursuing at this point, outside of SOA.  I mean, maybe that would have changed if the right opportunity would have presented itself.  But we don't know.

Good point. I remember MP saying a while back after the DT split that he's glad he has the freedom to be a part of all of these projects, or something to that effect. I can't help but wonder if he was in some small way hoping that something would turn into the main thing. Obviously, not Trnasatlantic, Flying Colours, or other groups where members are in a main band. Something like TWD or SOA or Neal Morse Band would be more apt for a full time band.


Honestly I think he thought Adrenaline Mob could be it.  When I first heard them I thought, yeah this sounds pretty radio friendly.  I could see sports using AM songs for promos and whatever.  I think even his wife posted on his old message board that AM has the most potential to be really big. 

Granted, I know nothing about that type of music.  Is Disturbed still selling well?  Doing big tours?  I honestly don't know.  I don't pay much attention to them but I haven't heard a whole lot about them lately so maybe that style of music is not too popular anymore.  At one point it was but they missed the boat on that one. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bosk1 on October 10, 2018, 04:20:56 PM
Just bumped my vote up to 9.  I think the only thing that keeps it from being a 10 is Figaro's Whore.:biggrin:  Not that it's a bad thing.  Just wish they would've made that a full length song.

I'm still firmly at an 8.  I have no problem with Figaro's.  It's a nice little wanky keyboard interlude to set up Divine Addiction, and it's fine for that.  It doesn't need to be anything more.  Opus Maximus, on the other hand, bores me to tears and is the one spot that drags the album down for me.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on October 10, 2018, 05:00:46 PM
I had it at 7 and keeping it there.  It's got it's moments, but it doesn't have me wanting to listen to it really.  Their live show gets a 9 for sure though and my enjoyment of the band mostly is driven from that than the album itself.  I really do hope they do a follow up just because I think the potential is so high, just a matter of improving on the foundation.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ErHaO on October 10, 2018, 05:32:18 PM
A question, is Sons of Apollo really doing badly/so-so? I see people talking about it as if it is bound to fail, but they sold out a 750 people venue here very early for 30 euros per ticket. I think over here they could've gone bigger, probably. I mean, it is not high, but for a new artist in this genre that seems fine/good. For reference, a band like Haken, which many consider successful and the new frontier for the genre, played their dvd show for 22 euros in a 700 people venue here in 2017. Obviously I don't know how Sons of Apollo (or bands like Haken for that matter) perform in other countries. No DT numbers, but what other prog metal focused artist does.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: DTA on October 10, 2018, 08:05:21 PM
I think it’s more that they failed to really deliver anything that hasn’t been done by a million other bands. There are just so many bands that are making more interesting music that SoA doesn’t really stand out I’m any way except for its members. I just think there’s no real upward trajectory and once they realize that, why bother to keep it going?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: King Postwhore on October 10, 2018, 08:25:02 PM
I'm not going to judge on one album and tour.  I'd like to see if they grow as a band.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: PepeLePew on October 10, 2018, 10:47:30 PM
Been at the concert in Aschaffenburg Tuesday night and LOVED it. I can only second what others have stated before: the songs work great live, and Bumblefoot and Soto are killing it! They all seemed to have a lot of fun on stage.
The venue holds about 500-550 people and it seemed sold out to me, or at least close to. Can't tell for sure because I was standing directly at the stage, right in front of Bumblefoot.  :biggrin:
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: tristl on October 11, 2018, 01:38:23 AM
I was in Aschaffenburg too, int the front on the right side.
I thought it was oK. What did really put me of, was the long instrumental sections , what is strange because I like them with DT.
The two DT songs, they played, showed in my opinion, Bumblefoot is a great guitarist, but he is not Petrucci, the same thing on bass and to all the critics of JLB, he does the songs more justice than Mr. Soto. I mean, they are all great musicians, but hearing them play made me miss DT ;)
It always put a smile on my face, when MP tried to direct everything from behind his drumkit,
I never liked that when I was at DT concerts, much nicer now  ;D
I am very much looking forward seeing DT next year with a new album and still hope they will do a nice blueray of TA somewhere in time :metal
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bosk1 on October 11, 2018, 08:07:42 AM
A question, is Sons of Apollo really doing badly/so-so? I see people talking about it as if it is bound to fail...

Hard to say.  I think some people expected more, but that doesn't necessarily mean the band is doing poorly. 

I don't think we can really go off of album sales, because unless you are a mega-pop star, those numbers are way down for everybody these days.  So we just have to go off of live shows.  I know Mike seems to be a pretty savvy businessman, so I am sure the contract guarantees from these gigs are decent.  It's just a question of whether they sold well enough to get good bookings a second time around.  And that is hard to say.  I have heard that some gigs have sold well, and others have not.  I know the one I saw them at did not sell all that well, and I have heard similar stories in other places.  But I have also heard that they packed people in in other places. 

I would guess that, at the end of the day, they did "okay."  Not great.  Not bad.  But just "okay."  Is that good enough?  Hard to say.  Obviously, with all the press releases about how this band was going to take the world by storm, the results may seem disappointing to some.  From all the hype, I'm sure some people expected a bigger, more extensive tour, and one that would happen immediately after the album release.  So I think some people are projecting their expectations onto the band and feeling like the band is somewhat of a failure.  But ultimately, we don't know what the band's actual expectations were, and whether where the band is now has come close enough to reasonably meeting those expectations.  But they've gotten some decent exposure and some pretty good festival bookings.  Maybe not quite as extensive as some would have thought.  But more than enough to generate interest in another album and tour cycle, which I know I personally am looking forward to. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on October 11, 2018, 08:16:57 AM
A question, is Sons of Apollo really doing badly/so-so? I see people talking about it as if it is bound to fail...

Hard to say.  I think some people expected more, but that doesn't necessarily mean the band is doing poorly. 

By some people, it would seem to me that would be the band themselves.  I don't think anyone would consider this band and their tour a failure if they hadn't set their own expectations, and therefore some of the fan base's expectations, so high. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bosk1 on October 11, 2018, 08:21:58 AM
A question, is Sons of Apollo really doing badly/so-so? I see people talking about it as if it is bound to fail...

Hard to say.  I think some people expected more, but that doesn't necessarily mean the band is doing poorly. 

By some people, it would seem to me that would be the band themselves.  I don't think anyone would consider this band and their tour a failure if they hadn't set their own expectations, and therefore some of the fan base's expectations, so high. 

Well, yes and no.  Did they set expectations high?  Absolutely.  But what band is going to come out and say, "Well, you know, we've got this new project we put together, and we don't want to oversell it, so we're just hoping for a mediocre run"?  Especially with personalities like Derek, Mike, and Jeff.  Of course they are going to have high expectations, and of course they are going to puff about it.  But I don't think that is really a problem.

Now, can we say that Derek went too far?  IMO, yeah, absolutely.  To the point of coming off as a childish idiot that I have no desire to ever support again.  But that's kind of a separate issue from whether or not the band is actually doing well.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: PepeLePew on October 11, 2018, 08:27:40 AM
The two DT songs, they played, showed in my opinion, Bumblefoot is a great guitarist, but he is not Petrucci, the same thing on bass and to all the critics of JLB, he does the songs more justice than Mr. Soto. I mean, they are all great musicians, but hearing them play made me miss DT ;)

Agreed on this, Bumblefoot is not JP. But I didn't expect them to copy the DT songs 1:1, so I wasn't disappointed. Looking forward to seeing them again on their next tour, when they have another album under their belt and can fill the whole setlist with own material (keeping fingers crossed...). I am not too keen on any band doing covers, but with only one album to chose from, what can they do...

I am very much looking forward seeing DT next year with a new album and still hope they will do a nice blueray of TA somewhere in time :metal

Also agreed on this! Can't wait! :metal
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: MirrorMask on October 11, 2018, 08:31:36 AM
Looking forward to seeing them again on their next tour, when they have another album under their belt and can fill the whole setlist with own material (keeping fingers crossed...).

I'm quite positive that in an interview MP said exactly this.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Stadler on October 11, 2018, 08:32:26 AM
8 years after leaving DT we're seeing that nothing MP has thrown on the wall has stuck as a long term, full time gig.
Okay.  But I'm not sure he has really tried to make any one project "stick" as a single, full-time gig.  I mean, obviously, he misunderstood his role with A7X even though they had only contracted with him through December of that year and had said they were going to find a full-time replacement for Rev at the end of that.  But aside from that, in every project he has been a part of, he hitched himself to other musicians who had other things going on.  It looks a lot to me like he hasn't really wanted to hitch himself to a single, full-time gig.  I mean, maybe he was hoping TWD would turn into that, and I think he is still hoping SOA will (time will tell).  But I don't think he has shown that that is really what he is pursuing at this point, outside of SOA.  I mean, maybe that would have changed if the right opportunity would have presented itself.  But we don't know.

Good point. I remember MP saying a while back after the DT split that he's glad he has the freedom to be a part of all of these projects, or something to that effect. I can't help but wonder if he was in some small way hoping that something would turn into the main thing. Obviously, not Trnasatlantic, Flying Colours, or other groups where members are in a main band. Something like TWD or SOA or Neal Morse Band would be more apt for a full time band.


Honestly I think he thought Adrenaline Mob could be it.  When I first heard them I thought, yeah this sounds pretty radio friendly.  I could see sports using AM songs for promos and whatever.  I think even his wife posted on his old message board that AM has the most potential to be really big. 

Granted, I know nothing about that type of music.  Is Disturbed still selling well?  Doing big tours?  I honestly don't know.  I don't pay much attention to them but I haven't heard a whole lot about them lately so maybe that style of music is not too popular anymore.  At one point it was but they missed the boat on that one.

It will probably never happen but if I ever get to have dinner with Mike and Marlene, I'm going to respectfully ask about that.   I have ZERO doubt that in the wake of the separation, with the bad blood floating about, with the pretty toxic atmosphere at his site (I'm stunned he didn't shut  the forum down then; there were more than one epic meltdowns there at the time, plus all the needless and baseless speculation that was running rampant) and the need to move forward, that they expected AMob to be an arena act.  They were comparing Amob to acts like A7X and Disturbed and noting that those were PLATINUM bands (1,000,000 sold in the States).   But to me, as someone who patently is NOT a fan - and so for whom all the Disturbeds, Godsmacks, A7xs, Chevelles, Chevrons, Finger Elevens, Finger Twelves (and yes, even Finger Thirteens), Hinders, Tinders, Grindrs, and Seethers all sound relatively the same - even I could tell that there was a lack of... authenticity for lack of a better word in Amob.   "I'm mutherfuckin' psychosane" wasn't deep or dark or whatever, it was a JOKE.  I literally LAUGHED when I heard that. 

I just think - and who am I to judge, right? - that Mike might be too close to the situation.  I think he's missing what made his incarnation of DT special.  Yeah, it was the music, but it was so much more than that.  It took 15 to 20 years to build that "it" up, and frankly, he doesn't have 15 to 20 years to do that again.   He keeps trying to rely on the "MP Warriors" to make it happen, but - to the extent I am one (and I don't think I am) - I'm not interested in making it happen again.  I HAVE my Images and Words.  I have my Awake.   I'm 50; I'm looking for something different; I'm not "mutherfuckin' psychosane" anymore (well, never was).   Gimme something that rivals the cameraderie, the bon amie, the community that was early DT and I'm in.  But that's not what SoA is to me; the closest he comes now is Neal Morse's gig, and that's Neal Morse's gig. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Stadler on October 11, 2018, 08:35:54 AM
I had it at 7 and keeping it there.  It's got it's moments, but it doesn't have me wanting to listen to it really.  Their live show gets a 9 for sure though and my enjoyment of the band mostly is driven from that than the album itself.  I really do hope they do a follow up just because I think the potential is so high, just a matter of improving on the foundation.

I told Cram to write that.  :)   :)
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: goo-goo on October 11, 2018, 08:52:29 AM
Adding more to Bosk1's comments:
-Europe is a better market for MP and the metal/prog/rock genres in general. If they are doing good in Europe, they will probably continue. If they do poorly in the European market, their future will be more doubtful.

Not sure how big the Sheehan, Bumblefoot, Soto and Sherinian names are in Europe. MP's name and following is decent in Europe.

Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Madman Shepherd on October 11, 2018, 03:47:11 PM

It will probably never happen but if I ever get to have dinner with Mike and Marlene, I'm going to respectfully ask about that.   I have ZERO doubt that in the wake of the separation, with the bad blood floating about, with the pretty toxic atmosphere at his site (I'm stunned he didn't shut  the forum down then; there were more than one epic meltdowns there at the time, plus all the needless and baseless speculation that was running rampant) and the need to move forward, that they expected AMob to be an arena act.  They were comparing Amob to acts like A7X and Disturbed and noting that those were PLATINUM bands (1,000,000 sold in the States).   But to me, as someone who patently is NOT a fan - and so for whom all the Disturbeds, Godsmacks, A7xs, Chevelles, Chevrons, Finger Elevens, Finger Twelves (and yes, even Finger Thirteens), Hinders, Tinders, Grindrs, and Seethers all sound relatively the same - even I could tell that there was a lack of... authenticity for lack of a better word in Amob.   "I'm mutherfuckin' psychosane" wasn't deep or dark or whatever, it was a JOKE.  I literally LAUGHED when I heard that. 

I just think - and who am I to judge, right? - that Mike might be too close to the situation.  I think he's missing what made his incarnation of DT special.  Yeah, it was the music, but it was so much more than that.  It took 15 to 20 years to build that "it" up, and frankly, he doesn't have 15 to 20 years to do that again.   He keeps trying to rely on the "MP Warriors" to make it happen, but - to the extent I am one (and I don't think I am) - I'm not interested in making it happen again.  I HAVE my Images and Words.  I have my Awake.   I'm 50; I'm looking for something different; I'm not "mutherfuckin' psychosane" anymore (well, never was).   Gimme something that rivals the cameraderie, the bon amie, the community that was early DT and I'm in.  But that's not what SoA is to me; the closest he comes now is Neal Morse's gig, and that's Neal Morse's gig.

I agree completely.  I think he also took for granted just how big of a brand "Dream Theater" was.  Probably not a good comparison but look at Guns N' Roses.  Axl was the only original member for a long time and regardless of the canceled tours and the lack of any other members, the band still did respectable numbers despite not releasing anything new in over a decade.  Why?  People buy into the name. 

Had Axl put together a solo band or a new band called Roses A-Go-Go, there is the potential it would have done decently but nowhere near as good as he did with the GNR name despite not having Slash, Duff, or a new release to support. 

People are loyal to a brand and a brand takes a while to build up.  Velvet Revolver had some hit singles, an all-star lineup, and even a name that had a similar theme to GNR and while they were pretty successful for a time, I don't think they ever had the numbers New-GNR had.

Emotionally it takes a lot to be invested in a band and the time and money it takes to see them/listen to them.  People don't want to expend unnecessary emotion/time/money but with DT, they already did.  SoA or AM may be similar to other hit bands in some regards but it is going to take a lot for people (and radio/record labels) to invest in a new product.

On a separate subject, a lot of success has to do with timing.  Sure, DT are a talented band that have had lots of good chemistry but a few years before or after and they would have been doing modest numbers at shows that may have been enough to sustain the band for a while but maybe not 30 years.  It's nice to think that you release a record like I&W and it will be a success no matter what but a lot of stars need to align in reality.  When I&W came out, they were having modest success until the Pull Me Under video hit.  When Appetite for Destruction came out, they were only having modest success until Sweet Child O' Mine hit.  Welcome to the Jungle was on the radio for a year and the album barely cracked the Billboard 200 and people thought, "Good band."  One year later people start losing their minds when the song is played. 

Human psychology is weird. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: MirrorMask on October 11, 2018, 04:13:23 PM
That would beg the question, "how fare a band can go by word of mouth alone?"... maybe an idea for another topic, to see if there are bands that didn't make it because of the right strike of luck, but because the songs were so damn good that eventually people started to pay attention.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Stadler on October 11, 2018, 10:56:57 PM
That would beg the question, "how fare a band can go by word of mouth alone?"... maybe an idea for another topic, to see if there are bands that didn't make it because of the right strike of luck, but because the songs were so damn good that eventually people started to pay attention.

Rush.  Kiss.  Both were running out of rope after three albums and a SHIT ton of touring, and had a game changing record that paid everything off (2112, and Alive! respectively). Deep Purple wasn't a hit right out the gate.   Soundgarden wasn't a hit right out the gate. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Stadler on October 11, 2018, 10:58:22 PM

It will probably never happen but if I ever get to have dinner with Mike and Marlene, I'm going to respectfully ask about that.   I have ZERO doubt that in the wake of the separation, with the bad blood floating about, with the pretty toxic atmosphere at his site (I'm stunned he didn't shut  the forum down then; there were more than one epic meltdowns there at the time, plus all the needless and baseless speculation that was running rampant) and the need to move forward, that they expected AMob to be an arena act.  They were comparing Amob to acts like A7X and Disturbed and noting that those were PLATINUM bands (1,000,000 sold in the States).   But to me, as someone who patently is NOT a fan - and so for whom all the Disturbeds, Godsmacks, A7xs, Chevelles, Chevrons, Finger Elevens, Finger Twelves (and yes, even Finger Thirteens), Hinders, Tinders, Grindrs, and Seethers all sound relatively the same - even I could tell that there was a lack of... authenticity for lack of a better word in Amob.   "I'm mutherfuckin' psychosane" wasn't deep or dark or whatever, it was a JOKE.  I literally LAUGHED when I heard that. 

I just think - and who am I to judge, right? - that Mike might be too close to the situation.  I think he's missing what made his incarnation of DT special.  Yeah, it was the music, but it was so much more than that.  It took 15 to 20 years to build that "it" up, and frankly, he doesn't have 15 to 20 years to do that again.   He keeps trying to rely on the "MP Warriors" to make it happen, but - to the extent I am one (and I don't think I am) - I'm not interested in making it happen again.  I HAVE my Images and Words.  I have my Awake.   I'm 50; I'm looking for something different; I'm not "mutherfuckin' psychosane" anymore (well, never was).   Gimme something that rivals the cameraderie, the bon amie, the community that was early DT and I'm in.  But that's not what SoA is to me; the closest he comes now is Neal Morse's gig, and that's Neal Morse's gig.

I agree completely.  I think he also took for granted just how big of a brand "Dream Theater" was.  Probably not a good comparison but look at Guns N' Roses.  Axl was the only original member for a long time and regardless of the canceled tours and the lack of any other members, the band still did respectable numbers despite not releasing anything new in over a decade.  Why?  People buy into the name. 

Had Axl put together a solo band or a new band called Roses A-Go-Go, there is the potential it would have done decently but nowhere near as good as he did with the GNR name despite not having Slash, Duff, or a new release to support. 

People are loyal to a brand and a brand takes a while to build up.  Velvet Revolver had some hit singles, an all-star lineup, and even a name that had a similar theme to GNR and while they were pretty successful for a time, I don't think they ever had the numbers New-GNR had.

Emotionally it takes a lot to be invested in a band and the time and money it takes to see them/listen to them.  People don't want to expend unnecessary emotion/time/money but with DT, they already did.  SoA or AM may be similar to other hit bands in some regards but it is going to take a lot for people (and radio/record labels) to invest in a new product.

On a separate subject, a lot of success has to do with timing.  Sure, DT are a talented band that have had lots of good chemistry but a few years before or after and they would have been doing modest numbers at shows that may have been enough to sustain the band for a while but maybe not 30 years.  It's nice to think that you release a record like I&W and it will be a success no matter what but a lot of stars need to align in reality.  When I&W came out, they were having modest success until the Pull Me Under video hit.  When Appetite for Destruction came out, they were only having modest success until Sweet Child O' Mine hit.  Welcome to the Jungle was on the radio for a year and the album barely cracked the Billboard 200 and people thought, "Good band."  One year later people start losing their minds when the song is played. 

Human psychology is weird.

I'd buy a record by Roses-A-Go-Go. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Orbert on October 12, 2018, 07:28:51 AM
I would download it, listen, and probably laugh a bit.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Ben_Jamin on October 12, 2018, 01:44:54 PM
8 years after leaving DT we're seeing that nothing MP has thrown on the wall has stuck as a long term, full time gig.
Okay.  But I'm not sure he has really tried to make any one project "stick" as a single, full-time gig.  I mean, obviously, he misunderstood his role with A7X even though they had only contracted with him through December of that year and had said they were going to find a full-time replacement for Rev at the end of that.  But aside from that, in every project he has been a part of, he hitched himself to other musicians who had other things going on.  It looks a lot to me like he hasn't really wanted to hitch himself to a single, full-time gig.  I mean, maybe he was hoping TWD would turn into that, and I think he is still hoping SOA will (time will tell).  But I don't think he has shown that that is really what he is pursuing at this point, outside of SOA.  I mean, maybe that would have changed if the right opportunity would have presented itself.  But we don't know.

Good point. I remember MP saying a while back after the DT split that he's glad he has the freedom to be a part of all of these projects, or something to that effect. I can't help but wonder if he was in some small way hoping that something would turn into the main thing. Obviously, not Trnasatlantic, Flying Colours, or other groups where members are in a main band. Something like TWD or SOA or Neal Morse Band would be more apt for a full time band.


Honestly I think he thought Adrenaline Mob could be it.  When I first heard them I thought, yeah this sounds pretty radio friendly.  I could see sports using AM songs for promos and whatever.  I think even his wife posted on his old message board that AM has the most potential to be really big. 

Granted, I know nothing about that type of music.  Is Disturbed still selling well?  Doing big tours?  I honestly don't know.  I don't pay much attention to them but I haven't heard a whole lot about them lately so maybe that style of music is not too popular anymore.  At one point it was but they missed the boat on that one.

It will probably never happen but if I ever get to have dinner with Mike and Marlene, I'm going to respectfully ask about that.   I have ZERO doubt that in the wake of the separation, with the bad blood floating about, with the pretty toxic atmosphere at his site (I'm stunned he didn't shut  the forum down then; there were more than one epic meltdowns there at the time, plus all the needless and baseless speculation that was running rampant) and the need to move forward, that they expected AMob to be an arena act.  They were comparing Amob to acts like A7X and Disturbed and noting that those were PLATINUM bands (1,000,000 sold in the States).   But to me, as someone who patently is NOT a fan - and so for whom all the Disturbeds, Godsmacks, A7xs, Chevelles, Chevrons, Finger Elevens, Finger Twelves (and yes, even Finger Thirteens), Hinders, Tinders, Grindrs, and Seethers all sound relatively the same - even I could tell that there was a lack of... authenticity for lack of a better word in Amob.   "I'm mutherfuckin' psychosane" wasn't deep or dark or whatever, it was a JOKE.  I literally LAUGHED when I heard that. 

I just think - and who am I to judge, right? - that Mike might be too close to the situation.  I think he's missing what made his incarnation of DT special.  Yeah, it was the music, but it was so much more than that.  It took 15 to 20 years to build that "it" up, and frankly, he doesn't have 15 to 20 years to do that again.   He keeps trying to rely on the "MP Warriors" to make it happen, but - to the extent I am one (and I don't think I am) - I'm not interested in making it happen again.  I HAVE my Images and Words.  I have my Awake.   I'm 50; I'm looking for something different; I'm not "mutherfuckin' psychosane" anymore (well, never was).   Gimme something that rivals the cameraderie, the bon amie, the community that was early DT and I'm in.  But that's not what SoA is to me; the closest he comes now is Neal Morse's gig, and that's Neal Morse's gig.

You know, this goes hand in hand with him having certain genre bands. Like Amob his metal band, Flying Colors his poppy, Transatlantic his prog.

I bet, if he did a project without any genre specifics and released whatever musical genre he jams, people would enjoy that more. But then, he needs people that can compose great songs.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Stadler on October 12, 2018, 06:47:05 PM
I agree with that; I've often said that the magic of DT was that they DIDN'T hold themselves hostage to any genre.   You can disagree with the bands, but I've always described early DT as Rush meets Iron Maiden, with Steve Perry singing over it.   I miss that, I will be honest.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: KevShmev on October 12, 2018, 06:53:44 PM
I agree with that; I've often said that the magic of DT was that they DIDN'T hold themselves hostage to any genre.  You can disagree with the bands, but I've always described early DT as Rush meets Iron Maiden, with Steve Perry singing over it.   I miss that, I will be honest.

I don't think that is true.  I can't remember if it was Petrucci or Portnoy who said it, but one of them described Liquid Dreams (from the second LTE record) as a song they could never do on a DT record, and even Rudess has said he writes a lot of stuff that he never presents to the band because he knows it would never be viewed as "DT music," for lack of a better term.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: TAC on October 12, 2018, 07:02:00 PM
Right Kev, and in MP's Score Commentary, during the outro to Innocence Faded, he says something along the lines of "Our fans would never let us get away with this kind of thing"... I'm paraphrasing of course.

I remember when I heard that I thought, "Are you f'n crazy? That's one of the best minute and a half in your catalog!!"
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Stadler on October 12, 2018, 07:29:11 PM
I agree with that; I've often said that the magic of DT was that they DIDN'T hold themselves hostage to any genre.  You can disagree with the bands, but I've always described early DT as Rush meets Iron Maiden, with Steve Perry singing over it.   I miss that, I will be honest.

I don't think that is true.  I can't remember if it was Petrucci or Portnoy who said it, but one of them described Liquid Dreams (from the second LTE record) as a song they could never do on a DT record, and even Rudess has said he writes a lot of stuff that he never presents to the band because he knows it would never be viewed as "DT music," for lack of a better term.

I think we can both be right; that they incorporate multiple genres - or better yet, live in the spaces between genres - doesn't mean that EVERY genre has to be represented.  At that point in their career they were sort of in the middle of the "concept record" phase; Scenes, Six Degrees, Octavarium...   Continuity is not the same as "genre cliches"; look at Rush.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ytserush on October 13, 2018, 09:55:51 AM


8 years after leaving DT we're seeing that nothing MP has thrown on the wall has stuck as a long term, full time gig.
Okay.  But I'm not sure he has really tried to make any one project "stick" as a single, full-time gig.  I mean, obviously, he misunderstood his role with A7X even though they had only contracted with him through December of that year and had said they were going to find a full-time replacement for Rev at the end of that.  But aside from that, in every project he has been a part of, he hitched himself to other musicians who had other things going on.  It looks a lot to me like he hasn't really wanted to hitch himself to a single, full-time gig.  I mean, maybe he was hoping TWD would turn into that, and I think he is still hoping SOA will (time will tell).  But I don't think he has shown that that is really what he is pursuing at this point, outside of SOA.  I mean, maybe that would have changed if the right opportunity would have presented itself.  But we don't know.

Good point. I remember MP saying a while back after the DT split that he's glad he has the freedom to be a part of all of these projects, or something to that effect. I can't help but wonder if he was in some small way hoping that something would turn into the main thing. Obviously, not Trnasatlantic, Flying Colours, or other groups where members are in a main band. Something like TWD or SOA or Neal Morse Band would be more apt for a full time band.


Honestly I think he thought Adrenaline Mob could be it.  When I first heard them I thought, yeah this sounds pretty radio friendly.  I could see sports using AM songs for promos and whatever.  I think even his wife posted on his old message board that AM has the most potential to be really big. 

Granted, I know nothing about that type of music.  Is Disturbed still selling well?  Doing big tours?  I honestly don't know.  I don't pay much attention to them but I haven't heard a whole lot about them lately so maybe that style of music is not too popular anymore.  At one point it was but they missed the boat on that one.

It will probably never happen but if I ever get to have dinner with Mike and Marlene, I'm going to respectfully ask about that.   I have ZERO doubt that in the wake of the separation, with the bad blood floating about, with the pretty toxic atmosphere at his site (I'm stunned he didn't shut  the forum down then; there were more than one epic meltdowns there at the time, plus all the needless and baseless speculation that was running rampant) and the need to move forward, that they expected AMob to be an arena act.  They were comparing Amob to acts like A7X and Disturbed and noting that those were PLATINUM bands (1,000,000 sold in the States).   But to me, as someone who patently is NOT a fan - and so for whom all the Disturbeds, Godsmacks, A7xs, Chevelles, Chevrons, Finger Elevens, Finger Twelves (and yes, even Finger Thirteens), Hinders, Tinders, Grindrs, and Seethers all sound relatively the same - even I could tell that there was a lack of... authenticity for lack of a better word in Amob.   "I'm mutherfuckin' psychosane" wasn't deep or dark or whatever, it was a JOKE.  I literally LAUGHED when I heard that. 

I just think - and who am I to judge, right? - that Mike might be too close to the situation.  I think he's missing what made his incarnation of DT special.  Yeah, it was the music, but it was so much more than that.  It took 15 to 20 years to build that "it" up, and frankly, he doesn't have 15 to 20 years to do that again.   He keeps trying to rely on the "MP Warriors" to make it happen, but - to the extent I am one (and I don't think I am) - I'm not interested in making it happen again.  I HAVE my Images and Words.  I have my Awake.   I'm 50; I'm looking for something different; I'm not "mutherfuckin' psychosane" anymore (well, never was).   Gimme something that rivals the cameraderie, the bon amie, the community that was early DT and I'm in.  But that's not what SoA is to me; the closest he comes now is Neal Morse's gig, and that's Neal Morse's gig.


Just speaking for myself here, but pretty much anything that I would greatly enjoy (Flying Colors, Transatlantic, Liquid Tension Experiment, Neal Morse Band...) probably doesn't come close to turning any kind of profit. Dig the Winery Dogs too (more so live) and I'm sure that was the best shot out of everything post split (who knows what's really going on there either?)

So the revenue has to come from somewhere. This problem isn't specific to just him and I don't really envy the decisions that need to me made.

I'm actually kind of excited about the Steel Drum Rush tribute Mike's gotten himself involved with. I just hope many of the covers are not  the usual suspects. Again, This isn't going to sell any where near even 100,000 copies, but I'm going to enjoy it just the same.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ytserush on October 13, 2018, 10:15:14 AM

It will probably never happen but if I ever get to have dinner with Mike and Marlene, I'm going to respectfully ask about that.   I have ZERO doubt that in the wake of the separation, with the bad blood floating about, with the pretty toxic atmosphere at his site (I'm stunned he didn't shut  the forum down then; there were more than one epic meltdowns there at the time, plus all the needless and baseless speculation that was running rampant) and the need to move forward, that they expected AMob to be an arena act.  They were comparing Amob to acts like A7X and Disturbed and noting that those were PLATINUM bands (1,000,000 sold in the States).   But to me, as someone who patently is NOT a fan - and so for whom all the Disturbeds, Godsmacks, A7xs, Chevelles, Chevrons, Finger Elevens, Finger Twelves (and yes, even Finger Thirteens), Hinders, Tinders, Grindrs, and Seethers all sound relatively the same - even I could tell that there was a lack of... authenticity for lack of a better word in Amob.   "I'm mutherfuckin' psychosane" wasn't deep or dark or whatever, it was a JOKE.  I literally LAUGHED when I heard that. 

I just think - and who am I to judge, right? - that Mike might be too close to the situation.  I think he's missing what made his incarnation of DT special.  Yeah, it was the music, but it was so much more than that.  It took 15 to 20 years to build that "it" up, and frankly, he doesn't have 15 to 20 years to do that again.   He keeps trying to rely on the "MP Warriors" to make it happen, but - to the extent I am one (and I don't think I am) - I'm not interested in making it happen again.  I HAVE my Images and Words.  I have my Awake.   I'm 50; I'm looking for something different; I'm not "mutherfuckin' psychosane" anymore (well, never was).   Gimme something that rivals the cameraderie, the bon amie, the community that was early DT and I'm in.  But that's not what SoA is to me; the closest he comes now is Neal Morse's gig, and that's Neal Morse's gig.

I agree completely.  I think he also took for granted just how big of a brand "Dream Theater" was.  Probably not a good comparison but look at Guns N' Roses.  Axl was the only original member for a long time and regardless of the canceled tours and the lack of any other members, the band still did respectable numbers despite not releasing anything new in over a decade.  Why?  People buy into the name. 

Had Axl put together a solo band or a new band called Roses A-Go-Go, there is the potential it would have done decently but nowhere near as good as he did with the GNR name despite not having Slash, Duff, or a new release to support. 

People are loyal to a brand and a brand takes a while to build up.  Velvet Revolver had some hit singles, an all-star lineup, and even a name that had a similar theme to GNR and while they were pretty successful for a time, I don't think they ever had the numbers New-GNR had.

Emotionally it takes a lot to be invested in a band and the time and money it takes to see them/listen to them.  People don't want to expend unnecessary emotion/time/money but with DT, they already did.  SoA or AM may be similar to other hit bands in some regards but it is going to take a lot for people (and radio/record labels) to invest in a new product.

On a separate subject, a lot of success has to do with timing.  Sure, DT are a talented band that have had lots of good chemistry but a few years before or after and they would have been doing modest numbers at shows that may have been enough to sustain the band for a while but maybe not 30 years.  It's nice to think that you release a record like I&W and it will be a success no matter what but a lot of stars need to align in reality.  When I&W came out, they were having modest success until the Pull Me Under video hit.  When Appetite for Destruction came out, they were only having modest success until Sweet Child O' Mine hit.  Welcome to the Jungle was on the radio for a year and the album barely cracked the Billboard 200 and people thought, "Good band."  One year later people start losing their minds when the song is played. 

Human psychology is weird.

Humans like their familiarity. Sometimes you just have to fight through it.

I agree with this to a certain extent but context has changed quite a bit over the last 30 years and it was on the decline even then sliding into specialized niches that had little to no chance of crossing over.

If Mike never left Dream Theater , I'd guess the band would be in a similar position to where they are now....fortunate enough to have a somewhat sustainable fan base  (before they had to become their own public relations firm)  to continue to make a modest living making music. But even every member of the current band is involved to varying degrees with their own projects. More difficult now then ever to make a living off off music unless you want to live that life on the road and even then there are no guarantees.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ytserush on October 13, 2018, 10:25:11 AM
That would beg the question, "how fare a band can go by word of mouth alone?"... maybe an idea for another topic, to see if there are bands that didn't make it because of the right strike of luck, but because the songs were so damn good that eventually people started to pay attention.

Rush.  Kiss.  Both were running out of rope after three albums and a SHIT ton of touring, and had a game changing record that paid everything off (2112, and Alive! respectively). Deep Purple wasn't a hit right out the gate.   Soundgarden wasn't a hit right out the gate.

Difference there is that at least there was some long term investment in those bands.  Any investment these days would come from a fanbase that may or may not have already been cultivated.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Adami on October 13, 2018, 10:27:22 AM
That would beg the question, "how fare a band can go by word of mouth alone?"... maybe an idea for another topic, to see if there are bands that didn't make it because of the right strike of luck, but because the songs were so damn good that eventually people started to pay attention.

Rush.  Kiss.  Both were running out of rope after three albums and a SHIT ton of touring, and had a game changing record that paid everything off (2112, and Alive! respectively). Deep Purple wasn't a hit right out the gate.   Soundgarden wasn't a hit right out the gate.

Difference there is that at least there was some long term investment in those bands.  Any investment these days would come from a fanbase that may or may not have already been cultivated.

Plus those bands were in their 20's (or so) and dedicated to one band, and MP and co are in their 50's/60's and dedicated to multiple bands at once. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ErHaO on October 13, 2018, 11:20:15 AM
I do think you can build a brand at a later stage. Look at Steven Wilson's solo career. In the last couple of years, his shows have doubled in crowd size and he has signed with a bigger label. And I think that all started with good word of mouth, upon which he build further. Mainstream succes is very unlikely, but it is very unlikely at any age, especially in the prog/rock/metal world.



I do think Sons of Apollo has a chance to grow and cultivate a decent fanbase, but first they have to maintain a healthy core fanbase. They sound like an inbetween prog metal and hard rock, which in my opinion makes them more accessible than most prog metal bands. Thus, I can see them winning some fans that do not necessarily like bands like Dream Theater and the likes.

Some steps I think that would work:
-Release a second album somewhere in 2019 and address the common criticisms the debut had.
-Maybe do some collaborations with other artists that give them exposure to fans of other artists, preferably outside of prog metal.
-Maybe do a limited tour as a co-headliner or special guest. It is too bad they missed a couple of festivals this summer, as a band like this needs those.
-Improve social media presence. Have Derek not say anything ever again on social media in regards to this band, aside from standard promotional posts. Keep Mike in check and have him focus on his enthusiasm for music, rather than him reacting to criticism. And have Jeff and Bumblefoot be the figures that talk to the media. I do think overall online presence of Sons of Apollo would be a bit more prominent if they had all their core fans on board from the get go. In early stages, you need all the positivity you can get.

And then see how things are moving along.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Orbert on October 13, 2018, 11:48:49 AM
That all sounds great.  You should be their manager.

In all seriousness, yeah, that sounds exactly like what they should be doing/planning for now, 2019, and beyond.  Building a band/brand is never easy, but it sure as hell helps if you have a solid plan in mind, and realistic goals.  Nothing happens overnight.  These guys have all seen some success, some have seen more and some have seen it more recently, but it can be easy to lose sight of how long it took to get there, and the setbacks along the way.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Ravenfoul on October 14, 2018, 01:10:51 PM
I mean this is all armchair BS by me. But, for the record, I enjoyed that first album some, I just haven't come back to it... like ever. I would consider sitting back down and listening to Lost In Oblivion and Divine Addiction mostly. Maybe Opus Maximus, even though I wasn't blown away by it. It wasn't a bad album, but it definitely didn't sound as inspired as you would think.

Still, I hold on to hope that #2 will bring better things. The real question is, will it be the same mix of prog / rock? Or will it lean more one way than the other. I still think DS can write some good prog and or fusion (check out Oceana sometime) like the dude is talented, even despite his dramatic attitude. Bumblefoot/Jeff are pretty great, but I have this bizarre feeling if anyone is going to get replaced it would be Billy. It may sound stupid but I honestly would have preferred if 1 or 2 members were not super established in the business. Look at all the talent out there, why not take a second and scope some out like Neal Morse did with Eric Gillette? Bill was a pretty fantastic albeit older find as well.

So yeah, I think every single member is going to have to stay hungry to make the band something more than just a fun get-together. Because they do have the potential to make something cool.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Fritzinger on October 20, 2018, 08:34:07 AM
JSS posted this on Facebook the other day:

Quote
Had an absolutely chilled day off here in Stuttgart, 2 hours at the gym and hibernating in silence within the confines of my hotel room...tomorrow we countdown the final two Sons Of Apollo shows for the Psychotic Symphony CD!! Stuttgart, then Köln then HOME!!! It's all bittersweet, this year has been one hell of a ride but as we'll be back in the studio for album 2 in the next few months (no release or tour until '20 though), we also have the live album/blu-ray from our Bulgaria show to get mixed, you haven't heard the last from us by a long shot!!

https://www.facebook.com/JeffScottSoto/photos/a.10151879277263192/10156135384103192/?type=3&theater

Looks like we won't get another album until 2020. Which is absolutely fine with me, I just wonder why.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Schurftkut on October 20, 2018, 10:25:16 AM
they already explained JSS has his TSO obligations, and they want to release the record and right after tour it heavily. Because the other members also have tours planned for 2019, they have to wait for 2020 for JSS to finish the TSO later in the year.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Architeuthis on October 20, 2018, 11:30:50 AM
It may sound stupid but I honestly would have preferred if 1 or 2 members were not super established in the business. Look at all the talent out there, why not take a second and scope some out like Neal Morse did with Eric Gillette?
And boy did that pay off, Eric Gillette is amazing and a good secondary frontman. Bill is a great on the keys but also an all around great musician. Same with Randy on bass.
 Neal Morse is obviously a really cool guy and is good at spotting talent outside the business.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: MinistroRaven on October 20, 2018, 09:12:23 PM
Mike wrote:

Quote
Here is the last few mins of the last @SonsOfApollo1 show of 2018! Thx to everyone that came out & supported our maiden voyage! Look for our live album from Plovdiv sometime next yr as we begin work on a new album & we’ll see you back on the road in 2020!
https://youtu.be/6QjiBsGiqbc
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Fritzinger on October 21, 2018, 05:42:48 AM
It may sound stupid but I honestly would have preferred if 1 or 2 members were not super established in the business. Look at all the talent out there, why not take a second and scope some out like Neal Morse did with Eric Gillette?
And boy did that pay off, Eric Gillette is amazing and a good secondary frontman. Bill is a great on the keys but also an all around great musician. Same with Randy on bass.
 Neal Morse is obviously a really cool guy and is good at spotting talent outside the business.

True. Eric and Bill are two awesome musicians! Plus their voices bring a nice diversity to NMs music!
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: DragonAttack on October 22, 2018, 08:39:21 AM
Mike wrote:

Quote
Here is the last few mins of the last @SonsOfApollo1 show of 2018! Thx to everyone that came out & supported our maiden voyage! Look for our live album from Plovdiv sometime next yr as we begin work on a new album & we’ll see you back on the road in 2020!
https://youtu.be/6QjiBsGiqbc

'Removed by user'   :\
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bosk1 on October 22, 2018, 12:23:29 PM
Man, it's hard to believe this first album run is pretty much over.  I hope they do a few one-off dates here and there.  I'm sure there'll be little snippets of info here and there as well. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Samsara on October 22, 2018, 02:43:34 PM
I'm curious to see if the album cycle lived up to their expectations. I mean, we'll never know unless they come out and say one way or another. But I have to believe they thought it would be more. We'll get the live release holdover, and then see if they can really gel on the second record and make some progress.

With any luck, they will. But the record has to be more dynamic (at least for me). I had much more fun at the show, with that energy. The album was missing that energy.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bosk1 on October 22, 2018, 02:53:03 PM
I'm curious to see if the album cycle lived up to their expectations.

Yeah, same here.  I am fairly certain they legitimately thought it would have near-unanimous acceptance in the prog metal community, so I am sure it fell short in that regard.  But in terms of numbers, that is a relatively small community.  Hard to say whether it lived up to "expectations" with regard to the rock/metal community as a whole.  I think that is where they needed better touring support to see any drastic changes in numbers.  If they could have gotten a supporting slot with a bigger name band, I think that would have helped.  But then again, maybe they will do that second time around.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on October 22, 2018, 03:03:38 PM
I can't see how it met their expectations since they seemed really high, but I'm not sure whether or not they consider what they've done to be a relative success or not.  I'm more curious on whether the guys believe they can grow from here on out or if they think this may go no where.  I don't think they will ever say that publicly (at least not until retirement or something) but that would intrigue me more. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Ben_Jamin on October 22, 2018, 07:22:35 PM
Going off their ProgPower performance, I'd say they have.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Bentower on October 23, 2018, 12:22:17 AM
I was disappointed that the album lacked Bumblefoot's usual sound and stamp of overall quality and now, since this cycle is over and done with, that they didn't make it up to Finland. I thought SoA would surely grant a chance to see him live finally. I believe the phrase MP used was 'all corners of the globe'. Nah-uh.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: a51502112 on October 23, 2018, 04:10:09 AM
So, next album. Will they proclaim that they are "The Kings of Dad-Rock"?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ProfessorPeart on October 30, 2018, 01:02:01 PM
According to Jeff they are hitting the studio in January.

https://loudwire.com/tenacious-d-sons-of-apollo-more-album-updates-2018-bowl-for-ronnie/

- Sons of Apollo just wrapped touring for their debut album, but singer Jeff Scott Soto tells us it won't be long before they tackle their follow-up release. "We are taking the next two months off because I’m taking off for Trans-Siberian Orchestra next week. I get back Dec. 31 and we’re in the studio like a week later for the next album," says Soto. "Derek [Sherinian] has a bunch of ideas and Bumblefoot has a bunch of ideas, but we’re not writing and sending each other stuff.  We’re just gonna keep adding to the catalog of ideas and like the first album, we’re just going to get together and carve it out in person."
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bosk1 on October 30, 2018, 01:03:19 PM
Cool!  The first album had a lot of really cool moments.  With an album and tour together under their belt, I have pretty high expectations for album #2.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Samsara on October 30, 2018, 01:05:20 PM
According to Jeff they are hitting the studio in January.

https://loudwire.com/tenacious-d-sons-of-apollo-more-album-updates-2018-bowl-for-ronnie/

- Sons of Apollo just wrapped touring for their debut album, but singer Jeff Scott Soto tells us it won't be long before they tackle their follow-up release. "We are taking the next two months off because I’m taking off for Trans-Siberian Orchestra next week. I get back Dec. 31 and we’re in the studio like a week later for the next album," says Soto. "Derek [Sherinian] has a bunch of ideas and Bumblefoot has a bunch of ideas, but we’re not writing and sending each other stuff.  We’re just gonna keep adding to the catalog of ideas and like the first album, we’re just going to get together and carve it out in person."

That's really cool. I am glad they are doing the second record pretty quickly.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on October 30, 2018, 01:11:09 PM
I don't like the comparison to writing it similar to how they did the first album, but I'm interested for a follow up.  I know it won't be for some time till it gets release though so I'm not really feeling anticipation for this yet
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ReaperKK on October 30, 2018, 05:07:34 PM
Neat to hear that they are going back into the studio. There were some good moments in the first records, hopefully they spend more time writing this time.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: The Walrus on October 30, 2018, 11:42:58 PM
There will inevitably be a tweet about how hard a certain drum part is because Mike had to spend all of 20 minutes practicing it  :lol
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Architeuthis on October 31, 2018, 10:12:57 AM
Looks like it will be a short time in the studio being that MP will heading out on tour with the NMB, which I got tickets to see.  :coolio
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: SwedishGoose on October 31, 2018, 10:42:10 AM
Looks like it will be a short time in the studio being that MP will heading out on tour with the NMB, which I got tickets to see.  :coolio

Yes, I fear it will be as rushed a job as the first one.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bosk1 on October 31, 2018, 11:09:48 AM
Looks like it will be a short time in the studio being that MP will heading out on tour with the NMB, which I got tickets to see.  :coolio

Yes, I fear it will be as rushed a job as the first one.

Well, if it's like the first one, that's great because nothing about that was rushed.  So count me in.

But to that point, since they have been working on things for quite some time, even if they are only "writing together" for a short time, they will still have worked on the songs longer than the first album.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Destiny Of Chaos on October 31, 2018, 11:22:34 AM
I don't care if an album takes 3 days or 3 years to make. All I cared about is the finished product. SoA 1 was awesome. I expect nothing less for SoA 2.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bosk1 on October 31, 2018, 11:23:32 AM
Exactly.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Lowdz on November 02, 2018, 11:09:15 AM
I would expect some jamming at soundchecks to work Out some new material and 5heyve been on tour for ages.

I liked the first one and I’m happy there will be another. This is the only MP project post DT that has done anything for me , not counting NM because that’s his thing.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: gzarruk on December 18, 2018, 09:13:48 AM
Quote
Metal Bell: The history between Derek, Mike, and Dream Theater, would you ever consider a tour with them?

Ron “Bumblefoot” Thal: I would love to do it, I have such tremendous respect for Dream Theater as a band and individuals. I love John Petrucci, we’ve met before, we’ve chatted, he’s a wonderful guy. I also played on Jordan’s solo record in 2009, he was just incredible. That would be a wonderful thing.

And honestly I feel like there would be no Sons Of Apollo if there was no Dream Theater, you know you have to respect where this came from and everything that leads up to it, the influences and the history, and I do, I tremendously do.

It’d be wonderful to play together, I doubt it would ever happen, that would be really something interesting to the fans to see that. I would love it to be taken not as a competition in any way, we are all branches of Dream Theater’s tree and I’m grateful to them, I respect and admire them.

Source: https://metal-bell.com/interviews/ron-bumblefoot-thal-from-sons-of-apollo-talks-touring-with-dream-theater-and-the-new-album/?fbclid=IwAR1EunSD1cfHi6dpaRjZyUOaGRgfxu0luSEU0Wjq3E14Zt6bTt6pqgv8biY

I bet Mike and Derek aren't too happy with this interview :lol
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Nekov on December 18, 2018, 09:24:21 AM
Oh boy...
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on December 18, 2018, 09:26:31 AM
He said all the right things
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Kwyjibo on December 18, 2018, 09:27:02 AM
He tells it like it is.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Adami on December 18, 2018, 09:27:15 AM
(https://flavorwire.files.wordpress.com/2015/02/ron.png?w=720.)
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bosk1 on December 18, 2018, 09:29:37 AM
Quote
Metal Bell: The history between Derek, Mike, and Dream Theater, would you ever consider a tour with them?

Ron “Bumblefoot” Thal: I would love to do it, I have such tremendous respect for Dream Theater as a band and individuals. I love John Petrucci, we’ve met before, we’ve chatted, he’s a wonderful guy. I also played on Jordan’s solo record in 2009, he was just incredible. That would be a wonderful thing.

And honestly I feel like there would be no Sons Of Apollo if there was no Dream Theater, you know you have to respect where this came from and everything that leads up to it, the influences and the history, and I do, I tremendously do.

It’d be wonderful to play together, I doubt it would ever happen, that would be really something interesting to the fans to see that. I would love it to be taken not as a competition in any way, we are all branches of Dream Theater’s tree and I’m grateful to them, I respect and admire them.

Source: https://metal-bell.com/interviews/ron-bumblefoot-thal-from-sons-of-apollo-talks-touring-with-dream-theater-and-the-new-album/?fbclid=IwAR1EunSD1cfHi6dpaRjZyUOaGRgfxu0luSEU0Wjq3E14Zt6bTt6pqgv8biY

I bet Mike and Derek aren't too happy with this interview :lol

Why wouldn't they be?  If asked the same question, I'm quite confident that they would both give similar answers.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: gzarruk on December 18, 2018, 09:42:10 AM
Quote
Metal Bell: The history between Derek, Mike, and Dream Theater, would you ever consider a tour with them?

Ron “Bumblefoot” Thal: I would love to do it, I have such tremendous respect for Dream Theater as a band and individuals. I love John Petrucci, we’ve met before, we’ve chatted, he’s a wonderful guy. I also played on Jordan’s solo record in 2009, he was just incredible. That would be a wonderful thing.

And honestly I feel like there would be no Sons Of Apollo if there was no Dream Theater, you know you have to respect where this came from and everything that leads up to it, the influences and the history, and I do, I tremendously do.

It’d be wonderful to play together, I doubt it would ever happen, that would be really something interesting to the fans to see that. I would love it to be taken not as a competition in any way, we are all branches of Dream Theater’s tree and I’m grateful to them, I respect and admire them.

Source: https://metal-bell.com/interviews/ron-bumblefoot-thal-from-sons-of-apollo-talks-touring-with-dream-theater-and-the-new-album/?fbclid=IwAR1EunSD1cfHi6dpaRjZyUOaGRgfxu0luSEU0Wjq3E14Zt6bTt6pqgv8biY

I bet Mike and Derek aren't too happy with this interview :lol

Why wouldn't they be?  If asked the same question, I'm quite confident that they would both give similar answers.

Considering their “DT sucks, we have balls” campaign for the album, I doubt they’ll be too happy with Ron basically praising DT (rightfully so).

BTW, Ron Thal is an extremely talented guitarist and also a class act :tup
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on December 18, 2018, 09:47:34 AM
It seems like the band has tried to stray away from Derek and Mike's comments when the band first formed and that's a good thing.  Having Ron and JSS doing interviews is good, they say all the right things and come off really well.  MP often is misinterpreted and Derek just comes off as an ass IMO.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ReaperKK on December 18, 2018, 09:49:28 AM
It seems like the band has tried to stray away from Derek and Mike's comments when the band first formed and that's a good thing.  Having Ron and JSS doing interviews is good, they say all the right things and come off really well.  MP often is misinterpreted and Derek just comes off as an ass IMO.

Agreed, Ron and JSS should handle all publicity for the band.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Samsara on December 18, 2018, 10:54:24 AM
Ron handled that like a pro. Very well done.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: mikeyd23 on December 18, 2018, 11:21:30 AM
Ron handled that like a pro. Very well done.

Yup, he should keep doing the press for this band.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Orbert on December 18, 2018, 11:21:44 AM
I bet Mike and Derek aren't too happy with this interview :lol

Why wouldn't they be?  If asked the same question, I'm quite confident that they would both give similar answers.

Mike and Derek might give similar answers, but they would wrestle with themselves (and lose) trying to come up with an answer that did not acknowledge or even mention Dream Theater, or if they did, that somehow Sons of Apollo is fresher, better, newer, something.  Despite the fact that Mike is still and probably will forever be known primarily as the founding drummer of DT and that Derek was in DT for a while, thus the connection, they've tried like hell to emphasize that this is a different band, and seem to want to distance themselves from DT.

Then comes Ron telling it like it is.  Sons wouldn't exist if DT had never existed and/or had the DT connection.  That connection gave them some cred, and at the very least gave a lot of people a reason to check them out.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ytserush on December 22, 2018, 10:39:08 AM

Quote
Metal Bell: The history between Derek, Mike, and Dream Theater, would you ever consider a tour with them?

Ron “Bumblefoot” Thal: I would love to do it, I have such tremendous respect for Dream Theater as a band and individuals. I love John Petrucci, we’ve met before, we’ve chatted, he’s a wonderful guy. I also played on Jordan’s solo record in 2009, he was just incredible. That would be a wonderful thing.

And honestly I feel like there would be no Sons Of Apollo if there was no Dream Theater, you know you have to respect where this came from and everything that leads up to it, the influences and the history, and I do, I tremendously do.

It’d be wonderful to play together, I doubt it would ever happen, that would be really something interesting to the fans to see that. I would love it to be taken not as a competition in any way, we are all branches of Dream Theater’s tree and I’m grateful to them, I respect and admire them.

Source: https://metal-bell.com/interviews/ron-bumblefoot-thal-from-sons-of-apollo-talks-touring-with-dream-theater-and-the-new-album/?fbclid=IwAR1EunSD1cfHi6dpaRjZyUOaGRgfxu0luSEU0Wjq3E14Zt6bTt6pqgv8biY

I bet Mike and Derek aren't too happy with this interview :lol

Seems to be as honest as an assessment as we're going to get.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Anxiety35 on December 22, 2018, 11:09:41 AM

Ron “Bumblefoot” Thal: ...It’d be wonderful to play together, I doubt it would ever happen...

Pretty much all we need to know.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: deggs37 on December 22, 2018, 02:12:59 PM
(https://flavorwire.files.wordpress.com/2015/02/ron.png?w=720.)

 :lol
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on January 08, 2019, 10:53:16 AM
From MP's social media

Quote
MP New Year Update: Back To Work!!! Starting TODAY: myself, Derek Sherinian and Bumblefoot will begin the writing/recording process for the new Sons Of Apollo album and (along with Billy Sheehan and Jeff Scott Soto) we will continue to work on SOA2 throughout the year for a release towards the end of the year or possibly early 2020 when we will begin touring again...(I also will continue work on the SOA Live in Plovdiv release that will be coming out early summer)
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Nachtmerrie on January 08, 2019, 01:22:10 PM
Let's hope they give themselves enough time to come up with better structured songs.
These guys should be capable of delivering a masterpiece when there is more focus on the songwriting.

Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: MirrorMask on January 08, 2019, 01:55:31 PM
Let's hope they give themselves enough time to come up with better structured songs.

Quote from: MP on a post about his 2019 activities
And Here’s my upcoming schedule as it currently stands:

with Sons Of Apollo:
Jan 8th to 15th - Writing Sessions in PA

 :biggrin:

(But he did say that there were to be more sessions in the year though)
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Cool Chris on January 08, 2019, 02:00:06 PM
Let's hope they give themselves enough time to come up with better structured songs.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: deggs37 on January 08, 2019, 02:19:23 PM
Writing sessions commence today! Ron and JSS's enthusiasm for the project have increased my hype a lot for the next release. I think these guys have a lot of potential, as long as they give this next album the time and attention it deserves.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on January 08, 2019, 02:25:08 PM
Writing sessions commence today! Ron and JSS's enthusiasm for the project have increased my hype a lot for the next release. I think these guys have a lot of potential, as long as they give this next album the time and attention it deserves.

 :lol I literally wrote something so similar in the MP thread just now
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Anxiety35 on January 08, 2019, 02:25:26 PM
I listened to Psychotic Symphony in parts yesterday in the car and I wound up skipping more songs than I thought I would. Guess I wasn't in the right mood for that album at the time.

I'm interested in the follow up. PS wasn't bad. It's solid. But I think there's more within the guys that will allow them to put out something better. Glad they're moving forward but here's my concern - meeting at sporadic times to write and record and not having everyone there at the same time. I get the advent of technology but I think this approach could hut the quality of the songwriting as opposed to blocking out 2 months or so to focus totally on the project, unless they're all really good at compartmentalizing.

I appreciate what these guys are doing but when they're all in multiple bands/projects I sometimes wonder if the creative juices get spent in other areas.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on January 08, 2019, 02:30:45 PM
I listened to Psychotic Symphony in parts yesterday in the car and I wound up skipping more songs than I thought I would. Guess I wasn't in the right mood for that album at the time.

I'm interested in the follow up. PS wasn't bad. It's solid. But I think there's more within the guys that will allow them to put out something better. Glad they're moving forward but here's my concern - meeting at sporadic times to write and record and not having everyone there at the same time. I get the advent of technology but I think this approach could hut the quality of the songwriting as opposed to blocking out 2 months or so to focus totally on the project, unless they're all really good at compartmentalizing.

I appreciate what these guys are doing but when they're all in multiple bands/projects I sometimes wonder if the creative juices get spent in other areas.

Yea, it's like the opposite of what DT did for D/T.  What's interesting is during one of the DT interviews on the writing process they were asked if they listen to other music while writing and it seemed they all said no and the reason is to not cloud their idea of what they want their music to be and yet these guys will be touring other music in the process.  Such a different state of mind for writing music.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: deggs37 on January 08, 2019, 02:55:16 PM
Writing sessions commence today! Ron and JSS's enthusiasm for the project have increased my hype a lot for the next release. I think these guys have a lot of potential, as long as they give this next album the time and attention it deserves.

 :lol I literally wrote something so similar in the MP thread just now

Great minds  :tup
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: emtee on January 22, 2019, 03:02:00 PM
I've been following MP's tweets. When this band was initially announced by Mike I was pumped.
The first album was good. Not great and not something I go back to often, however, with the pedigree
of all the musicians involved, I figured it was a strong debut effort with plenty of room for improvement.

So...I was a little bummed to read that the 2nd album was written in basically 6 days. By no means does
this mean it won't be good or even excellent, but I have to admit I'm a little bummed that they didn't take
longer. It seems like it was an available hole in Mike's schedule and they pounded out what they could during
that time. Given what he said, that this was going to be a major focus and a full time band, I figured they
would schedule more than a week.

Oh well, I'll keep an open mind and hope for the best.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bosk1 on January 22, 2019, 03:06:45 PM
Given what he said, that this was going to be a major focus and a full time band, I figured they
would schedule more than a week.

Why?  What does spending more than a week have to do with anything?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Adami on January 22, 2019, 03:09:11 PM
Given what he said, that this was going to be a major focus and a full time band, I figured they
would schedule more than a week.

Why?  What does spending more than a week have to do with anything?

Because how long it took was decided in advance. Huge difference between nailing something in 5 days and only allowing 5 days. Not saying it’s 100% going to impact it, but artistically it’s not always helpful. Especially given the many criticisms that his stuff isn’t very well thought out.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: MirrorMask on January 22, 2019, 03:13:02 PM
Also, wasn't it said in interviews that Derek worked on his own for some time on God of the Sun? the song that required more work is, go figure, the song that the majority of fans agree is the best on the record.

This of course does NOT mean that songs worked on most are always best, no way - but still, it makes you think.... anyway, I too remember from interviews that they were gonna use 2019 to have more than one session for the album, and suddenly it turned out to be "yay, we wrote it in six days, I've already recorded all the drums".
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on January 22, 2019, 03:13:21 PM
Given what he said, that this was going to be a major focus and a full time band, I figured they
would schedule more than a week.

Why?  What does spending more than a week have to do with anything?

Because how long it took was decided in advance. Huge difference between nailing something in 5 days and only allowing 5 days. Not saying it’s 100% going to impact it, but artistically it’s not always helpful. Especially given the many criticisms that his stuff isn’t very well thought out.

Yup.  Without hearing or knowing anymore, if you told me DT went into a studio for a couple months to write and record and live together and make their album vs SOA went into a studio and crunched out their album in 6 days.  Without knowing anymore, I'd bet that the DT album would be better just based on the way it was created.  Change those bands names for anyone, it doesnt make a difference (just using familiar examples definitely not a DT vs SOA thing in this post).  It's just about the creative process IMO.  Of course it isn't until I hear the albums to potentially compare them and see if that actually does hold true (which may not be the case), but that would be my initial feelings about the process.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: emtee on January 22, 2019, 03:15:43 PM
Well, as an example, with DT, his main focus pre-departure, they (usually) spent several weeks, if not months
in the studio. I guessed, incorrectly, that when he made the announcement about SoA, that he was going to
approach SoA similarly, by blocking out a healthy chunk of time to create, hone, perfect, analyze, etc.

In my experience, following him since 1991, his side projects (all zillion of them) are usually recorded in far less
time than DT albums. Sometimes the results are amazing. As I said, I'll keep positive and see what happens when
the album is released.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Setlist Scotty on January 22, 2019, 03:34:45 PM
While I agree that it would've been nice for them to work on the songs more together in the studio, it's more than likely that they all shared their ideas with one another ahead of time via e-mail so that they were familiar with them and had ideas about how they could fit together. Then when they got together, they could skip those steps of becoming familiar with the individual ideas and move right into piecing them together and making adjustments to what they came up with. Again, not the perfect solution, and it probably would've been better for them to spend more time together to work them out, but I doubt it's just them literally banging everything out in a week. Besides, there's plenty of time before the album will be released, so I wouldn't be surprised if there are adjustments made to different songs to improve them. Maybe it might even require MP returning to the studio to re-record some of his drum parts, like what he did for The Great Adventure. I wouldn't slag off the album just yet.

edit: Two other differences I just thought of that could also have changed how MP operates is the fact that he's got many more side projects and other bands going on at the same time, in comparison to when he was in DT. I think if SoA took off the way DT did back in 92, MP would probably increase the priority of SoA over all those others. While he may consider SoA his main band or one of his main bands (TWD being the other), he's still gotta keep busy with these other bands/projects to keep up the financial flow that he had while in DT.

The other difference is that it seems there was a bit of a rule when writing DT albums not to bring in pre-written ideas. Most everything was jammed out together, although there were some exceptions to that rule throughout the years. With DT's stature, it seems that wasn't a problem, but I doubt SoA could manage to do the same thing at this stage.

Finally, let's not forget that MP is an amazing multi-tasker - from what little insight I've had, I'm amazed that the man is able to do as much as he does, both while in DT and even outside the band now.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bosk1 on January 22, 2019, 03:39:56 PM
Yeah, so far, I'm not really seeing any valid criticism.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: TAC on January 22, 2019, 03:42:06 PM
I wouldn't slag off the album just yet.

The first album was so blah. After years of doing things I had no interest in, I was so pumped for SOA. It was basically what I had been waiting for. That is, until I heard it. It sounded like there wasn't any time taken on it.

Unfortunately, the way it is is to just get something out to tour on. Initial reports sound like this could be more of the same. That blows.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: wolfking on January 22, 2019, 03:44:02 PM
This band are working on another album?...........oh.......good for them.

I listened to the first album once and thought it was crap.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Adami on January 22, 2019, 03:58:57 PM
Yeah, so far, I'm not really seeing any valid criticism.

Because you have no issue with the first album. Which is fine. But a lot of us did. I highly doubt if the band spent 6 months working on it, you'd hate it or like it much less than if they spent 5 days.

For instance, I once wrote an album (musically at least) in 7 days and I still consider it some of my best work. But sometimes it takes me 2 months to write one song (or even longer). It takes as long as it takes. If I said that I have 5 days to write an album, that very well may impact how good it is. Sometimes I have to write a song, demo it, sit with it for a few weeks, then go back and re-write parts that I wouldn't have done if I made a hard deadline to finish it after a few days.

The main criticisms Portnoy gets (which I think are fair, but largely overblown) are that he does the same drumming all the time, never changes things up, and that some of his projects don't seem too well thought out. Those criticisms might go away (to some degree) if he spent more time doing this stuff.

If they all got together and banged an album in 6 days, cool. But to determine ahead of time that it's all you got, then it might very well suffer.

Like I said, I doubt you'd complain if they did things the way we are saying.

If a chef cooked up a quick 5 minute meal and 1/6 people (making this up) loved it, and the other 5 thought he should really spend more time getting it better and fine tuning it, the chef would be a fool to say "well...the one guy liked it, so everyone else can eat somewhere else".

Just because it doesn't have any impact on you, doesn't mean it's not valid criticism. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bosk1 on January 22, 2019, 04:16:41 PM
Because you have no issue with the first album. Which is fine. But a lot of us did.

You are right that I have no issue with the first album.  But that is largely irrelevant to my point.  Portnoy has worked on lots of albums under similar time tables that I DO have issues with.  He has also worked on plenty on similar time tables that I do not have issues with.  The time table is irrelevant and doesn't mean anything.  As you say:

For instance, I once wrote an album (musically at least) in 7 days and I still consider it some of my best work. But sometimes it takes me 2 months to write one song (or even longer). It takes as long as it takes. 

There you go.  Two of my top 5 favorite albums of all time were "written" in a similar timeframe.  They are true masterpieces.  Others that were written in that timeframe bore me to death.  Oh well.  Again, the timeframe is not relevant to that.

And another reason it is not relevant, and why I put "written" in quotes is because we already know from lots of other comments from other band members through the past several months that a lot of material has been written prior to this time.  And, as Scotty said, they have exchanged a lot of ideas and communication electronically before the studio time, and will likely continue to do so through completion of the album.  It isn't like they came in with nothing and said "okay, six days from scratch, and whatever we have recorded is it with no modification."  Far from it.

Just because it doesn't have any impact on you, doesn't mean it's not valid criticism.

You're right.  But as I said, whether it has any impact on me isn't the issue at all.  It's not valid criticism simply because it's not valid criticism.  We have no idea (1) what the actual time composing the songs actually was, or (2) what impact, if any at all, that had on the quality of the songs.  It's just a silly subjective feeling that they didn't spend "enough time," and therefore the album cannot possibly be good. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: gzarruk on January 22, 2019, 04:30:55 PM
I'm with Adami on this one. While I dig the album more than when it was originally released (well, some songs from it, the others I can't stand) it still feels rushed and has "Portnoy was tinkering with the production" written all over it. Some examples are the disjointed instrumental sections that appear out of nowhere, the same tired drumming we've been listening since FII, having almost the same chorus on Coming Home and Alive... You can definitely write an album in just a week and it could be your best work to date, but, as Adami says, it should be because the material is good and you totally nailed it in one week, not because you had x amount of days to write and x amount of days to record it inmediately after only because your drummer and biggest workaholic on the face of the Earth only has that many free days in his schedule.

MP posted during the recording of the drums for this album that he always improvises the fills and patterns when he records an album and that he always does 3 takes of every song because of it. That's exactly why we always complain about him playing the same exact parts and fills on every album, because he just plays whatever came to mind instead of taking more time to carefully craft his drum parts. In contrast, I saw a Gavin Harrison (one of the best drummers in the genere) lesson explaining how he comes up with drum parts for a song and the difference is night and day. Of course Mike's never going to do that, because he has a ton other bands to worry about, so he's more focused on quantity than quality, but the product ultimately suffers, imo.

You're right.  But as I said, whether it has any impact on me isn't the issue at all.  It's not valid criticism simply because it's not valid criticism.  We have no idea (1) what the actual time composing the songs actually was, or (2) what impact, if any at all, that had on the quality of the songs.  It's just a silly subjective feeling that they didn't spend "enough time," and therefore the album cannot possibly be good. 

It's true, we have no idea how the songs will sound like, but we DO have the first album to comment about, and if they're following the same pattern with the second, I think it's fair to say the results might not be too different.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Adami on January 22, 2019, 04:59:18 PM
Bosk, if Portnoy had said "We wrote it in 5 days!" then (while people would still be complaining) all of your points would be perfectly on spot.

But the crux is the time constraints. It was decided ahead of time to be 5 days. That is my issue. You can't decide how long something will take (especially art) before hand. When I wrote my brilliant life changing masterpiece in 7 days, I didn't decide to do it in 7 days. It just took that long. Perfect. No worries. But if I had said "I HAVE 5 DAYS TO WRITE AN ALBUM" it'll probably be lacking.


Your point about them sending stuff back and forth is very valid however. You're lucky you're not Stadler, or I'd disagree with that too.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bosk1 on January 22, 2019, 05:11:02 PM
...not because you had x amount of days to write and x amount of days to record it inmediately after only because your drummer and biggest workaholic on the face of the Earth only has that many free days in his schedule.

I agree.  But we have no reason to believe that that actually happened, so it's kind of a non-issue.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on January 22, 2019, 05:14:06 PM
I think your perception of the first album will definitely play a role in how you perceive the next will be when the creative process is the same with the same people.  I can only speak for myself but I enjoyed the album and thought if they had spent more time on it, they could have done something better.  These guys have made it clear they can create music quickly, but I haven't seen them be able to create music that is truly amazing.  Also, as MirrorMask pointed out, the closest thing I thought to be an amazing song, and it is a damn good one and the best on the album was the one song that did take the most time to create.  I don't think it's unreasonable to think if they spent more time on creating music that the music will be better.  It's not a rule or anything, I'm just basing it on how the first album came out.

There's also other things like Setlist Scotty said to consider which is how we can communicate so effective at distances today that maybe they did work on this more outside of the studio.  Also them being on the road together probably helped when they came together a second time as they will now be much more familiar with each other and how they work together. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Madman Shepherd on January 22, 2019, 07:35:17 PM
It's just a silly subjective feeling that they didn't spend "enough time," and therefore the album cannot possibly be good.

That's not what he's saying at all though. He's saying it *could* be good but it seems that usually the best albums have more time spent on them.

I also don't think sharing files and listening to them while you have reruns of The Office on pause is necessarily the best way to write either, and doesn't really constitute a more significant degree of writing time than hammering it out in five days.

Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: SwedishGoose on January 22, 2019, 11:05:43 PM
Count me in on the ones wishing they would set of more time than a week to do an album.
I thought the first one could have become much better if they had gone back and reviewed what they had and continued working on it.

Well it's how Mike likes to do albums. Just get it out as quickly as possible to be able to tour it and still find time for a thousand other projects.

I think how the new Neal Morse Band was created is very telling.
After the first sessions Mike was happy and wanted to get the one disc out but Neal Morse was not happy.
He did a lot of rewriting and then they had another session for the same album that was now a double disc concept telling the second part of TSOAD.

Now... there is no telling wheather the new version is better than the first but I think that it's quite probable.

Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: emtee on January 23, 2019, 03:32:10 AM
Yeah, so far, I'm not really seeing any valid criticism.

For the record, there was no criticism in my post whatsoever. Zero, zip, nada. I made it very clear that there
isn't necessarily any correlation between time-in-studio vs. results. Additionally, I made it clear that I would
keep an open mind--which I will. I was merely opining that the process seemed more in line with a side project
as opposed to a primary band project. That you interpreted my post as criticism is...interesting.

I hope it's a masterpiece. A statement album that stands against the test of time and one I want to spin often.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Ben_Jamin on January 23, 2019, 08:32:56 AM
As always, I won't have an opinion until I hear a song. And even at that, the entire album I'll have to listen to before I form an opinion.

The only song I liked was Labyrinth. Enjoyed the others live though.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: rumborak on January 23, 2019, 09:15:02 AM
This is even independent of SOP, I think it's a lamentable development that both DT and MP have so steadfastly stuck to their "writing on the clock" approach. I have found over the years that quite of few things I have disliked about their collective output could possibly have been mitigated by a "second run" over the songs that would have weeded out weak sections. The classic example for me being "day after day, night after night", where they just couldn't make the vocals work, and instead of adjusting the underlying song they rather committed an inferior piece of music on tape. I don't think it's coincidence that the two top DT albums (IAW and SFAM) were that ones that matured over time.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Stadler on January 23, 2019, 09:50:38 AM
Interestingly, I don't have much issue with the writing schedule.  I agree with Bosk that we don't really know all the deets, and there could have been files back and forth, and each member could have been working on bits and bobs for months now. It's all speculation.

Where I have beef is:
- the recording
- the mindset involved


I liked, not loved, the last album, and one of the criticisms was that it was too... for lack of a better word, "flat".  Jeff sang in his  lower register, Billy's got that chirpy, trebly bass, and so you have five instruments all competing for the same sonic space.  (Contrast that with, say, Jimmy Page, who was a MASTER at arranging the various instruments (and parts of the same instrument) in a sonic space.   I'd like* to see more separation, more contrast, more dynamics in the arrangement.  Mike is so good at arranging (that's not sarcastic) that it should be in their wheelhouse to do (it's evident on the Flying Colors record...) that I think the time creeps in here to limit that.

The  mindset; I've long been critical - and have nothing to prove me wrong at this point - of the "I'm in 87 bands!" thing from a creative perspective.   I get it, it's "Mike PortnoyTM" and so there's an element now of "you get what you get" (it's like asking Eddie VH to drop a solo into your song; you can probably sing that solo unheard and be in the ballpark).   One of the things that really grabbed me about DT back in the day (I bought I&W when it was released) was that it was a mix of so many good things; it was Rush and Iron Maiden jamming together with Steve Perry singing over it.  The last two (with Portnoy) seemed too much like him wanting to be in Pantera (or, more specifically, to be Charlie Benante).   Now, he's got his prog thing, he's got his metal thing, he's got his Deep Purple-esque thing, he's got his DT thing, he's got his Beatles-esque thing...  but maybe the magic was bringing those disparate influences in.   Maybe the "metal thing" needs more Ringo, or the Prog thing needs more Bill Ward.  I think - I sense - that he gets into these mindsets, and that's far more limiting than any time limitation or "playing the same fill over and over" (which I don't agree).

*  I fully cop that "what I like to see" is irrelevant; you're not buying Portnoy records to hear what Stadler wants, you're paying for what Mike wants to deliver because we like what he's delivered in the past.   
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Samsara on January 23, 2019, 10:03:53 AM
One of the things that really grabbed me about DT back in the day (I bought I&W when it was released) was that it was a mix of so many good things; it was Rush and Iron Maiden jamming together with Steve Perry singing over it.  The last two (with Portnoy) seemed too much like him wanting to be in Pantera (or, more specifically, to be Charlie Benante).   Now, he's got his prog thing, he's got his metal thing, he's got his Deep Purple-esque thing, he's got his DT thing, he's got his Beatles-esque thing...  but maybe the magic was bringing those disparate influences in.   Maybe the "metal thing" needs more Ringo, or the Prog thing needs more Bill Ward.  I think - I sense - that he gets into these mindsets, and that's far more limiting than any time limitation or "playing the same fill over and over" (which I don't agree).

That's a really a nice way to summarize how I feel about MP right now, and about the albums you mentioned. MP is so "genre-separated" that it comes off as predictable. I get it, from a business perspective -- he's trying to show his diverse skills, but in a way that he maximizes his income. He spreads himself out to not only satisfy all his interests, but also so his work isn't contained in one thing, which is better for his bottom line. But I agree with your sentiment. He limits his playing (or it seems he does) to the genre in which he's now playing in, instead of letting everything come to the forefront.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: gzarruk on January 23, 2019, 12:08:00 PM
And to compliment what Stadler and Samsara said, I think it has to do with Mike not having a “main” band anymore, he has a different outlet for each style of music. I think he’d be more diverse if he focused on one band like he did with DT at first and got to experiment through different styles/phases with that same band. That’s why most of his DT albums sound very different from one another.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Samsara on January 23, 2019, 01:18:45 PM
I think it has to do with Mike not having a “main” band anymore, he has a different outlet for each style of music. I think he’d be more diverse if he focused on one band like he did with DT at first and got to experiment through different styles/phases with that same band. That’s why most of his DT albums sound very different from one another.

Exactly. I agree that I'd also like to see that all in one band from him, and make that the only, or primary thing. But as I was mentioning above, I think there is a financial/business aspect to it that he doesn't. By separating his playing out by genre among many different groups, he's able to continually be out in the marketplace, building his "brand" in each of those different genres. It may not make him as "interesting," but it does put him across a wide array of genres, and increase his marketability. Obviously, I don't know MP at all, but reading the tea leaves, it seems like marketing and business have something to do with how he has diversified what he does in his post-DT career.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on January 23, 2019, 01:25:04 PM
I totally agree Samsara, I think money plays a large role here.  For MP to keep the lifestyle he had with DT, he needs to be involved in more releases since none of his bands are currently as big of money makers as DT.  I don't hold this against him though, I applaud people who work as hard as he does.  However, artistically, I do think it makes the releases where he is at creative control a bit of a letdown with this schedule because he is not able to put the time into it to make them the best as possible.  They are "good enough" but I think we all know MP is capable of making extraordinary music and while I've enjoyed a lot of his music, it hasn't been on that level for some time now.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bosk1 on January 23, 2019, 01:36:32 PM
By separating his playing out by genre among many different groups, he's able to continually be out in the marketplace, building his "brand" in each of those different genres. It may not make him as "interesting," but it does put him across a wide array of genres, and increase his marketability. Obviously, I don't know MP at all, but reading the tea leaves, it seems like marketing and business have something to do with how he has diversified what he does in his post-DT career.

It makes total sense that finances and the business side of things would be a motivator post-DT.  But I think that is likely only part of the picture.  Another is that he is just driven to be involved in lots of different things.  He likes lots of different types of music and likes to be involved playing those different types of music.  It was the same when he was in DT.  At any given moment, regardless of what DT was doing, when there was down time, he would be looking to fill it working on Neal Morse solo material, working on Transatlantic, doing various tribute projects (The Who, The Beatles, Led Zep, Rush), or other collaborations/projects.  Heck, he even recorded a backing vocal track for a Neal Morse project backstage at a festival when he was still with DT.  He just can't help himself. 

I think it would take him landing a REALLY big, well-paying gig where he wasn't in control to really limit him doing lots of other diverse side projects.  For example, if A7X had offered him a permanent spot and put their foot down about him doing other things when they weren't touring, or something else big like that.  And even then, I think he would still do some limited side projects just because he just has to scratch that itch.

EDIT:  At the end of the day, while it is likely that money plays some role, it's hard to say how much of it is that and how much of it is just Mike being Mike and wanting to be involved in as many diverse things as humanly possible.  I'm not so sure he can even answer that.  And like Cram said, there's nothing wrong with that either way.  It just is what it is.  And while it may leave some fans frustrated, at the end of the day, it does ensure that there is a little something out there for everybody.  You have people that would never buy a Sons of Apollo album who love Flying Colors, or people who would never buy a Neal Morse album loving The Winery Dogs, etc.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Samsara on January 23, 2019, 01:43:03 PM
I totally agree Samsara, I think money plays a large role here.  For MP to keep the lifestyle he had with DT, he needs to be involved in more releases since none of his bands are currently as big of money makers as DT.  I don't hold this against him though, I applaud people who work as hard as he does.  However, artistically, I do think it makes the releases where he is at creative control a bit of a letdown with this schedule because he is not able to put the time into it to make them the best as possible.  They are "good enough" but I think we all know MP is capable of making extraordinary music and while I've enjoyed a lot of his music, it hasn't been on that level for some time now.

Right. And thus, I assume, the reason why he ends up churning out stuff so quickly (like this last SOA session). Get it done, get on to the next, etc. I get it, applaud the hard work, and I have already mentioned (referring to bosk's comment above) that I know the man is interested in different types of music and driven to do things. But I think the root of the reason for all of this is more the bottom line, rather than the creative side of it all. I'd say a 70-30 split, if I had to put a number on it.

When he was in DT, he wanted those creative outlets for sure. But he also loved his lifestyle, and knew where his bread was buttered. Now, without DT, he realized the absolute NEED to keep continually working, and diversifying to maintain that level of financial stability for him and his family. And because he has such a diverse personality and interest in so many types of music, he took to it like a horse to water, and got the best of both worlds for himself. And you gotta applaud that. But it is, sadly, I think, at the expense of some originality, because his work is now so diverse and split across genres. His playing isn't diverse within one group like it used to be, which was one of the reasons Dream Theater, and MP himself, gained such a following.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: goo-goo on January 23, 2019, 02:52:43 PM
To be fair, this 2nd album won't be released until very late 2019 or early 2020. There is still a lot time to tinker and tweak the album. I hope they do. I was disappointed in the studio album, but live, they kicked ass. And with everything being recorded digitally, it can easily be manipulated and change stuff. I mean, that's what MP did this past week...recorded 3 drum tracks for each song, and they they comped out the main drum truck for everyone else to add their parts. If Sherinian and Bumblefoot take their time composing the music and solos behind MP's drum tracks, the album might have a chance to be more successful than SOA1.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Anxiety35 on January 23, 2019, 03:22:41 PM
I think the consensus for those who are concerned about the presumed lack of time writing the new SOA record is that it may be rushed and the album won't be good. Also, if MP has to carve out time for a project it may give the impression that there's lack of focus or care given. Again, we don't know all the details. For all we know, they could have started writing riffs and/or songs while on tour during 2018.

I agree somewhat with the concerns. Fans don't want a dud and I'm sure MP and SOA don't want to make a dud. Brings me to a weird question. Has MP ever done something that he (not fans) thought was a dud and refused to allow it to be released upon completion?

What a twist of irony if the new SOA album is absolutely incredible. Then people will want SOA to stick to that formula of writing material in a seemingly short period.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bosk1 on January 23, 2019, 03:25:59 PM
For all we know, they could have started writing riffs and/or songs while on tour during 2018.

They have gone on record as saying that that is exactly what they did.  There were several comments made during the time they were touring that they were writing and coming up with new material, and had what they felt was almost an album's worth of new material back then.  I don't remember for certain how many of them made comments along those lines, but if memory serves, everybody except Billy said something similar.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Anxiety35 on January 23, 2019, 03:28:08 PM
For all we know, they could have started writing riffs and/or songs while on tour during 2018.

They have gone on record as saying that that is exactly what they did.  There were several comments made during the time they were touring that they were writing and coming up with new material, and had what they felt was almost an album's worth of new material back then.  I don't remember for certain how many of them made comments along those lines, but if memory serves, everybody except Billy said something similar.

I thought I remembered reading/hearing that but wasn't sure and I didn't want to put words into anyone's mouth. Thanks for clarifying!
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on January 23, 2019, 03:28:39 PM
What a twist of irony if the new SOA album is absolutely incredible. Then people will want SOA to stick to that formula of writing material in a seemingly short period.

Yup, including myself  :lol
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bosk1 on January 23, 2019, 03:31:06 PM
For all we know, they could have started writing riffs and/or songs while on tour during 2018.

They have gone on record as saying that that is exactly what they did.  There were several comments made during the time they were touring that they were writing and coming up with new material, and had what they felt was almost an album's worth of new material back then.  I don't remember for certain how many of them made comments along those lines, but if memory serves, everybody except Billy said something similar.

I thought I remembered reading/hearing that but wasn't sure and I didn't want to put words into anyone's mouth. Thanks for clarifying!

I may be overstating how many of them actually said it.  But I do know it was said, and more than once.

Now, obviously, we don't know whether or not it was true.  But that would be bizarre thing to not be truthful about (giving some license, of course, for the fact that they may have exaggerated the amount of material, because that's natural).

That's one of the reasons I alluded to above why I think that a story about how long they spent in studio is irrelevant.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: As I Am on January 23, 2019, 03:34:23 PM
SO VERY MUCH looking forward to the next studio album (although a year away) and the LIVE album (summer). I absolutely LOVED songs like "God of The Sun", "Coming Home", "Lost In Oblivion" and "Divine Addiction". Hoping for a more "complete" album with number 2!
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Samsara on January 23, 2019, 03:35:35 PM
I think most bands write, and then record in the studio. Very few smaller acts can afford to do what DT does - rent out a studio for a few months, and then write/record. So it is no surprised that SOA probably came up with the basic songs well before going into the studio.

So the time spent writing is there, I'm sure. At least from my perspective, that's not the point. It's the point that MP is spread so thin across so many very sub-genre-defined acts, that his drumming is not as...diverse (for lack of a better term) as it was before. Whereas before it was a stew, that you got elements of so much in so many of the DT songs, and now its like - Oh, that's chicken soup, that's tomato soup, that's new england clam chowder. (Not that I'd want to mix soups, but you get the bad analogy.)

I am also looking forward to SOA 2. Like many, I thought the album was average, but very much enjoyed the live show. Hoping some of that energy finds its way to the album.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bosk1 on January 23, 2019, 03:40:20 PM
Well, mulligatawny takes a long time to get the flavor right.  Broccoli cheddar generally does not.  But BOTH are good with pita chips.  See what I'm getting at?  That's MY point. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: TAC on January 23, 2019, 05:41:46 PM
I don't know. The first SOA was more like broth.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Anguyen92 on January 23, 2019, 05:51:37 PM
I mean broth can be tasty, though it can be bland at times if done improperly.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: gzarruk on January 23, 2019, 06:27:38 PM
I'm also looking forward to album 2, because I only like 5 songs from PS and want other few from the 2nd to actually make an album worth of material that I like from them :lol
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: IDontNotDoThings on January 23, 2019, 08:31:57 PM
I'm also looking forward to album 2, because I only like 5 songs from PS and want other few from the 2nd to actually make an album worth of material that I like from them :lol

I'm glad I'm not the only one who does this. :lol
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: gzarruk on January 23, 2019, 08:45:18 PM
I'm also looking forward to album 2, because I only like 5 songs from PS and want other few from the 2nd to actually make an album worth of material that I like from them :lol

I'm glad I'm not the only one who does this. :lol

I do it all the time :lol :tup
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: gmillerdrake on January 24, 2019, 06:41:13 AM
I thought the first album was just ‘alright’ with a few cool moments. Two of my older sons really dug it so I bought us all tickets and we went to the show. The live show was great.....I was extremely impressed by every member of the band (other than Derick who looked and acted like he’d rather be anywhere else but there)

But JSS, Bumblefoot....MP and Billy.....those guys know how to put on a show and we had a blast. I was actually pleasantly surprised at how good JSS sounded live and his showmanship was what every singer should strive for. And, I had no idea that Bumblefoot was THAT good.

Anyway....I don’t expect their sophomore album to knock me off my feet. I expect it’ll be like the first one.....servicable with some killer moments sprinkled throughout. If they come back through St. Louis I’ll go see them but I don’t anticipate me making a road trip for them.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Samsara on January 24, 2019, 08:14:56 AM
Well, mulligatawny takes a long time to get the flavor right.  Broccoli cheddar generally does not.  But BOTH are good with pita chips.  See what I'm getting at?  That's MY point.

That you're a pita chip - crunchy, needs some sort of dip/fluid to make it tolerable?  :lol :lol

j/k, j/k
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bosk1 on January 24, 2019, 08:33:50 AM
Well, mulligatawny takes a long time to get the flavor right.  Broccoli cheddar generally does not.  But BOTH are good with pita chips.  See what I'm getting at?  That's MY point.

That you're a pita chip - crunchy, needs some sort of dip/fluid to make it tolerable?  :lol :lol

j/k, j/k

If I'm the pita chip in that scenario, then you are the dip I hang out with.  :p
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Adami on January 24, 2019, 08:38:26 AM
Pita chips are an abomination. 

Bring it.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Samsara on January 24, 2019, 08:45:44 AM
Pita chips are an abomination. 

Bring it.

Wut? You mean to say you don't enjoy getting stabbed in the mouth with hard as rock bread chips?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on January 24, 2019, 08:49:22 AM
Pita chips are an abomination. 

Bring it.

they are so good with hooommus though
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: deggs37 on January 24, 2019, 10:18:15 AM
If we are going with food comparisons then I would say Psychotic Symphony is like McDonald's. Really great when you have a nice buzz going on. But, when you are sober, it's certainly not your first choice and leaves you feeling greasy with a lot of empty calories - however, if you have nothing better to choose from, it will hold you over until you find something more fulfilling and nutritious.

With that said, I am feeling more optimistic about Big Mac 2.0 - even though all signs are pointing to it being prepared the same way the original Big Mac was.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Adami on January 24, 2019, 12:39:40 PM
Pita chips are an abomination. 

Bring it.

they are so good with hooommus though


That’s it. You just made the list.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on January 24, 2019, 12:57:54 PM
 :lol
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ytserush on February 02, 2019, 12:22:15 PM
To be fair, this 2nd album won't be released until very late 2019 or early 2020. There is still a lot time to tinker and tweak the album. I hope they do. I was disappointed in the studio album, but live, they kicked ass. And with everything being recorded digitally, it can easily be manipulated and change stuff. I mean, that's what MP did this past week...recorded 3 drum tracks for each song, and they they comped out the main drum truck for everyone else to add their parts. If Sherinian and Bumblefoot take their time composing the music and solos behind MP's drum tracks, the album might have a chance to be more successful than SOA1.

That's what was done with Neal Morse's latest and I haven't quite figured out the impact, if any, on that yet.

 I'm more of a fan of the old fashioned (and probably financially unsustainable) organic way of doing things but if swapping files from thousands of miles away is the only option try to make it as humane as possible.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bosk1 on February 02, 2019, 06:20:38 PM
So far, Viper King is their best song.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Bertielee on February 07, 2019, 02:55:05 AM
So far, Viper King is their best song.

I see what you did there! SoA might be pissed that DT is making better SoA music than SoA tmeselves. :biggrin:

B.Lee

Note : I haven't listened to Viper King.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: nikatapi on February 07, 2019, 04:51:06 AM
So far, Viper King is their best song.

If only Jeff sang on this.. :censored
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: gzarruk on February 07, 2019, 05:38:30 AM
So far, Viper King is their best song.

If only Jeff sang on this.. :censored

(https://media.giphy.com/media/1M9fmo1WAFVK0/giphy.gif)
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Bertielee on February 07, 2019, 09:12:41 AM
Yeah, can't understand the hype surrounding JSS. He once was a good singer but is now average imo. Singing in place of JLB? No way!

B.Lee
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on February 07, 2019, 09:24:38 AM
He's average now?  Sounded fantastic the two times I saw him live last year. I don't want him to replace JLB or anything, but JSS is not average.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bosk1 on February 07, 2019, 09:26:31 AM
I agree with Cram
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Stadler on February 07, 2019, 09:27:00 AM
He's average now?  Sounded fantastic the two times I saw him live last year. I don't want him to replace JLB or anything, but JSS is not average.

This.  He was excellent when I saw him too, but that's not to say I want him singing in Dream Theater.  It's very possible that two guys can BOTH be excellent.  ;)   
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: goo-goo on February 07, 2019, 09:34:08 AM
He's average now?  Sounded fantastic the two times I saw him live last year. I don't want him to replace JLB or anything, but JSS is not average.

This.  He was excellent when I saw him too, but that's not to say I want him singing in Dream Theater.  It's very possible that two guys can BOTH be excellent.  ;)

I felt that he was very restrained with the SoA material because live, Scott was a totally different singer.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on February 07, 2019, 09:39:58 AM
He's average now?  Sounded fantastic the two times I saw him live last year. I don't want him to replace JLB or anything, but JSS is not average.

This.  He was excellent when I saw him too, but that's not to say I want him singing in Dream Theater.  It's very possible that two guys can BOTH be excellent.  ;)

I felt that he was very restrained with the SoA material because live, Scott was a totally different singer.

Oh yea, one of my biggest criticisms of SOA was JSS sounded not only restrained on the album, but the "yeah!"s and just basically singing all the songs very similar, but live he was a different animal.  Besides being very active on stage, his vocals were just fantastic.  He's a good front man.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Architeuthis on February 07, 2019, 09:41:53 AM
He's average now?  Sounded fantastic the two times I saw him live last year. I don't want him to replace JLB or anything, but JSS is not average.

This.  He was excellent when I saw him too, but that's not to say I want him singing in Dream Theater.  It's very possible that two guys can BOTH be excellent.  ;)

I felt that he was very restrained with the SoA material because live, Scott was a totally different singer.
Yeah he was exceptional live!  Much more restrained on the record, but still good. Hopefully, he will be let loose to kill it on the next record.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: gzarruk on February 07, 2019, 12:44:44 PM
Yeah, can't understand the hype surrounding JSS. He once was a good singer but is now average imo. Singing in place of JLB? No way!

B.Lee

To me, he’s basically a poor man’s Russell Allen. The first couple listens I gave to the album, I couldn’t shake the felling that Russ would’ve done a much much better job than JSS. Too bad he got really into the AMOB thing... which was literally a tragedy.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: gmillerdrake on February 07, 2019, 01:15:34 PM
Oh yea, one of my biggest criticisms of SOA was JSS sounded not only restrained on the album, but the "yeah!"s and just basically singing all the songs very similar, but live he was a different animal.  Besides being very active on stage, his vocals were just fantastic.  He's a good front man.

Agree. His album performance was very tame and 'safe' and actually a tad boring. Saw them live and He was incredible. His stage presence, his 'act'.....his sound....he was great!!! I hope they allow or let him cut loose on the next album a bit more.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Madman Shepherd on February 07, 2019, 05:18:35 PM
Yeah, can't understand the hype surrounding JSS. He once was a good singer but is now average imo. Singing in place of JLB? No way!

B.Lee

To me, he’s basically a poor man’s Russell Allen. The first couple listens I gave to the album, I couldn’t shake the felling that Russ would’ve done a much much better job than JSS. Too bad he got really into the AMOB thing... which was literally a tragedy.

Whoa man. I feel the exact opposite. I've never really been able to get into Allen. JSS is much better in my opinion. Though I do agree he was a bit too restrained
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Stadler on February 08, 2019, 09:31:17 AM
Yeah, can't understand the hype surrounding JSS. He once was a good singer but is now average imo. Singing in place of JLB? No way!

B.Lee

To me, he’s basically a poor man’s Russell Allen. The first couple listens I gave to the album, I couldn’t shake the felling that Russ would’ve done a much much better job than JSS. Too bad he got really into the AMOB thing... which was literally a tragedy.

Whoa man. I feel the exact opposite. I've never really been able to get into Allen. JSS is much better in my opinion. Though I do agree he was a bit too restrained

Madman, I'm with you.   Admittedly, I was blown away by a Star One song with him singing, but other than that, for the life of me I do not understand the infatuation with Russell Allen.  No, he doesn't suck, but he's not all that and a bag of chips either.  Average at best in my humble opinion.  I don't think Jeff is Freddie Mercury either, but he's got moments; I just wish the album had more separation in tone and range; I know he didn't want to sing in that higher register, but in my opinion, that music screamed (see what I did there) for that, just to create some frequency separation.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on February 08, 2019, 09:32:27 AM
I also dont understand the Russel Allen love, not a bad singer but also not one I would praise as highly as many here do.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: gzarruk on February 08, 2019, 09:47:41 AM
I’m not saying Russell is the best vocalist ever or anything like that, I just think he’d be a better fit than JSS for this band, but who says I’m right? :lol
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: kaos2900 on February 08, 2019, 11:22:07 AM
Yeah, can't understand the hype surrounding JSS. He once was a good singer but is now average imo. Singing in place of JLB? No way!

B.Lee

To me, he’s basically a poor man’s Russell Allen. The first couple listens I gave to the album, I couldn’t shake the felling that Russ would’ve done a much much better job than JSS. Too bad he got really into the AMOB thing... which was literally a tragedy.

Whoa man. I feel the exact opposite. I've never really been able to get into Allen. JSS is much better in my opinion. Though I do agree he was a bit too restrained

Madman, I'm with you.   Admittedly, I was blown away by a Star One song with him singing, but other than that, for the life of me I do not understand the infatuation with Russell Allen.  No, he doesn't suck, but he's not all that and a bag of chips either.  Average at best in my humble opinion.  I don't think Jeff is Freddie Mercury either, but he's got moments; I just wish the album had more separation in tone and range; I know he didn't want to sing in that higher register, but in my opinion, that music screamed (see what I did there) for that, just to create some frequency separation.

This is one of the few times I disagree with you Stads. Russell is far better than average at best. His tone and range is fantastic not to mention he can bring it live unlike many singers in the genre. I don't like his raspy style of the last few SX records but their ballads really show case his talent.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Stadler on February 08, 2019, 12:19:13 PM
Yeah, can't understand the hype surrounding JSS. He once was a good singer but is now average imo. Singing in place of JLB? No way!

B.Lee

To me, he’s basically a poor man’s Russell Allen. The first couple listens I gave to the album, I couldn’t shake the felling that Russ would’ve done a much much better job than JSS. Too bad he got really into the AMOB thing... which was literally a tragedy.

Whoa man. I feel the exact opposite. I've never really been able to get into Allen. JSS is much better in my opinion. Though I do agree he was a bit too restrained

Madman, I'm with you.   Admittedly, I was blown away by a Star One song with him singing, but other than that, for the life of me I do not understand the infatuation with Russell Allen.  No, he doesn't suck, but he's not all that and a bag of chips either.  Average at best in my humble opinion.  I don't think Jeff is Freddie Mercury either, but he's got moments; I just wish the album had more separation in tone and range; I know he didn't want to sing in that higher register, but in my opinion, that music screamed (see what I did there) for that, just to create some frequency separation.

This is one of the few times I disagree with you Stads. Russell is far better than average at best. His tone and range is fantastic not to mention he can bring it live unlike many singers in the genre. I don't like his raspy style of the last few SX records but their ballads really show case his talent.

Well, if the Star One song is any indication, then you have a point.  But that's the one exception to what I find to be a rather generic sounding approach. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: goo-goo on February 08, 2019, 12:48:13 PM
Early Symphony X is where RA shines. Amob and the last 2-3 Symphony X albums don't do justice to Allen's singing performance.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Adami on February 08, 2019, 12:53:11 PM
Early Symphony X is where RA shines. Amob and the last 2-3 Symphony X albums don't do justice to Allen's singing performance.


V is a really great showcase for him, as are some of the albums prior.

The latter Symp X stuff, it's easy to lose track of how good he is because he really does do the heavy raspy thing like 90% of the time, but that other 10% is really great, but easy to miss.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Cool Chris on February 08, 2019, 01:21:38 PM
I fully agree with Adami (it has been a while...)
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Art on February 09, 2019, 06:50:43 AM
Early Symphony X is where RA shines. Amob and the last 2-3 Symphony X albums don't do justice to Allen's singing performance.

This.

But JSS is also great.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: DT2003 on February 09, 2019, 01:12:11 PM
I’m not saying Russell is the best vocalist ever or anything like that, I just think he’d be a better fit than JSS for this band, but who says I’m right? :lol
Not sure I agree. Russell Allen to me is at his best in music like early Symlhony X.  In the later Symphony X albums and AMob I don’t enjoy him nearly as much whereas I think JSS is perfect for SoS.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Anxiety35 on February 11, 2019, 08:41:37 AM
Part of the Russell Allen love is that the guy nails it live.

Part of the JSS dislike is that if you've only heard him in SOA, then you get an extremely limited take on what he can do. I hope the songs on the new record allow him to cut loose a little more.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: devieira73 on February 19, 2019, 12:27:18 PM
This discussion was sleeping for a week, but anyway ... by chance today, I was listening to Joel Hoekstra's 2015 solo CD, Dying to Live - an excellent hard rock / AOR album - where, I was forgotten, Russell and Jeff alternate vocals through the album, with great performances. And those of Jeff better than the ones he did on Psychotic Symphony, no doubt. I really like Jeff, but by comparison, it's clear to me that Russel has a stronger, more expressive and more diverse voice these days. Probably it would have been a better choice for SoA IMO.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Architeuthis on February 19, 2019, 02:12:56 PM
Yeah, but I don't think Russel Allen would forsake his place in Symphony X in order to take on the SOA obligations.  JSS is the right man for the job!
Russel is a powerhouse singer, no doubt about it. I'm just hoping to hear something new from SX with him in it.. :metal
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ProfessorPeart on February 19, 2019, 05:02:42 PM
Not to go to far off topic, but if you haven't heard the Level 10 album that Russ did with Mat Sinner in 2014 I highly suggest checking it out. If I remember correctly, Angry Russ only pops up in 2 songs or so. Most of the rest is melodic Russ. Pretty heavy album too.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=02NNqNocpY0
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: erwinrafael on February 19, 2019, 09:32:23 PM
Part of the Russell Allen love is that the guy nails it live.

Part of the JSS dislike is that if you've only heard him in SOA, then you get an extremely limited take on what he can do. I hope the songs on the new record allow him to cut loose a little more.

JSS in his solo album last year is miles away from his SoA work.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Architeuthis on February 20, 2019, 08:26:35 AM
Not to go to far off topic, but if you haven't heard the Level 10 album that Russ did with Mat Sinner in 2014 I highly suggest checking it out. If I remember correctly, Angry Russ only pops up in 2 songs or so. Most of the rest is melodic Russ. Pretty heavy album too.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=02NNqNocpY0
Thanks for the heads up, I'll check it out!   :tup
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: JPX on February 22, 2019, 01:38:05 PM
I also dont understand the Russel Allen love, not a bad singer but also not one I would praise as highly as many here do.

You've heard him sing right? wtf

Tell me another vocalist alive that could pull off The Sacrifice.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on February 22, 2019, 01:46:41 PM
I also dont understand the Russel Allen love, not a bad singer but also not one I would praise as highly as many here do.

You've heard him sing right? wtf

Tell me another vocalist alive that could pull off The Sacrifice.

I've heard a handful fo Symphony X stuff and the AMOB singles and wasn't into it.  After reading somethings here about how some of his SX stuff isn't as good maybe I listened to the wrong stuff and I think many will write off AMOB so it's possibly I haven't heard his goods such as The Sacrifice (never heard it). 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Stadler on February 22, 2019, 02:05:11 PM
Look, preface it by "it's my taste and I don't judge anyone else for liking him", but when Mike announced the 'Mob, everyone said "You've got to hear this guy".   And we got stuff like "mutherf*****n' psychosane!" and "Take one to the FACE!".  Then I was told, you've got to hear his REAL singing, on Symphony X.  And I've gotten two songs in two roulettes from Symphony X and was not impressed.   Now, it's "but you have to hear the RIGHT Symphony X..."   Ugh. 

Though in all fairness, I heard the track he did for Star One, and it was excellent (and more importantly, didn't sound like anything I'd heard by him before).   
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ytserush on February 23, 2019, 05:52:29 PM
Look, preface it by "it's my taste and I don't judge anyone else for liking him", but when Mike announced the 'Mob, everyone said "You've got to hear this guy".   And we got stuff like "mutherf*****n' psychosane!" and "Take one to the FACE!".  Then I was told, you've got to hear his REAL singing, on Symphony X.  And I've gotten two songs in two roulettes from Symphony X and was not impressed.   Now, it's "but you have to hear the RIGHT Symphony X..."   Ugh. 

Though in all fairness, I heard the track he did for Star One, and it was excellent (and more importantly, didn't sound like anything I'd heard by him before).   

I'm sure there's at least one song that Russell Allen sings that I like but I wouldn't be able to tell you what it is at the moment. It might be on Star One but I haven't listened to that in a very long time. Not really a Symphony X fan or a fan of Jeff Scott Soto's work.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Peace and Love on February 23, 2019, 05:57:51 PM
Look, preface it by "it's my taste and I don't judge anyone else for liking him", but when Mike announced the 'Mob, everyone said "You've got to hear this guy".   And we got stuff like "mutherf*****n' psychosane!" and "Take one to the FACE!". 

I got this far into the post and was already laughing my head off! Seriously, the Mob was such a terrible let down.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Art on February 25, 2019, 06:58:50 AM
AMOB is completely crap, no doubt. Total waste of Russell/Portnoy's chops.  I'll stick with my classic Symphony X (everything up until V) and Underworld, Russell kills on these records.  :metal
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: erwinrafael on March 01, 2019, 08:57:52 AM
So I listened to this album again after two months of not listening to it. Hearing this after listening several times to D/T the past few days does not do Psychotic Symphony any favors.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Art on March 01, 2019, 09:02:23 AM
Lat week i heard Derek's interview on Dean Delray's podcast, Let There be Talk.

I think it's 2 or 3 years old, so, pre-SOA.

The interview was cool, they talked about a lot of things (this is a great podcast if you like metal/rock interviews), but when they talked about Derek's period in DT he seemed so...butt-hurt. Kept avoiding calling the guys by their names (the singer, the drummer, the guitarist etc), kept calling it "nerd-music"...it kinda soured the whole thing.

I like his playing, but he seems to really be up his own ass...
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ytserush on March 02, 2019, 10:46:25 AM
Lat week i heard Derek's interview on Dean Delray's podcast, Let There be Talk.

I think it's 2 or 3 years old, so, pre-SOA.

The interview was cool, they talked about a lot of things (this is a great podcast if you like metal/rock interviews), but when they talked about Derek's period in DT he seemed so...butt-hurt. Kept avoiding calling the guys by their names (the singer, the drummer, the guitarist etc), kept calling it "nerd-music"...it kinda soured the whole thing.

I like his playing, but he seems to really be up his own ass...

Easy to say now, but I had that impression when Dream Theater made him a full time member in 1995 although he did seem pretty cool when meeting him a few times briefly in person. Not sure I would have remained a fan if Jordan didn't get the gig.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Orbert on March 02, 2019, 03:01:55 PM
The way that Derek refers to guys in bands he's played with (the singer, the drummer, etc) has always struck me as a bit odd.

I mean, I play in bands, and if I'm talking with someone about some band I used to play with, I'll often just say "the singer did this" or "the guitarist did that" because using their first names would be meaningless.  I'm just relating a quick anecdote about something, and "what" they are in this context is more important than "who" they are.

But if someone is asking about Dream Theater specifically, then saying "the singer" or "the guitarist" or whatever just seems weird.  The interviewer knows who he's talking about, the audience knows who he's talking about, so why avoid naming them if not as some kind of slight to them?

I suppose it could just be the way he talks, but I don't think I've ever run into it before.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: gmillerdrake on March 02, 2019, 03:12:57 PM
I like his playing, but he seems to really be up his own ass...

Yeah...personally I think there's plenty of evidence out there that point to him being pretty much a D-Bag. I know that when I took my kiddos to see SOA.....I was super impressed by everyone BUT DS. He sat in his little keyboard world and you could visibly see how disinterested he was to A) Be there and B) be playing music. He went through the motions when playing whereas the other guys laid it out there and were fantastic to watch!  He just looked mad and like he was pouting the whole time.

Then I recall seeing a video a week or two later on Youtube of a gig they'd just done and in that video he looked the same exact way. Maybe he's just not a happy person? Maybe he's super happy but just has resting A-Hole face....whatever it is he certainly looked like he wanted to be anywhere but there. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: gzarruk on March 02, 2019, 04:05:22 PM
For years I respected Derek as the former keyboardist of DT. He was in one of my least favorite DT lineups, but I still enjoyed his playing and thought he was a class act. Everything changed when the SOA campaign started and he showed his true colors. I think he never got over being fired and those feelings were dormant for many years, but when he and MP got the chance to be in another band together, and because both share the same bitterness against DT, they just flourished.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: nobloodyname on March 02, 2019, 04:46:09 PM
...and because both share the same bitterness against DT...

 Don't you ever get tired of your crusade? :lol
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: KevShmev on March 02, 2019, 06:56:20 PM
Lat week i heard Derek's interview on Dean Delray's podcast, Let There be Talk.

I think it's 2 or 3 years old, so, pre-SOA.

The interview was cool, they talked about a lot of things (this is a great podcast if you like metal/rock interviews), but when they talked about Derek's period in DT he seemed so...butt-hurt. Kept avoiding calling the guys by their names (the singer, the drummer, the guitarist etc), kept calling it "nerd-music"...it kinda soured the whole thing.

I like his playing, but he seems to really be up his own ass...

While I agree with the posts since about Sherinian, I found that interview and listened to the segment where he spoke about his time with Dream Theater, and came away with a different impression than you did.  He referred to JP and JLB by name both at least once, and the "nerd-music" thing was in the context of him talking about how prog fans love to go to concerts and listen for any mistake, which, let's face it, is very true.

I did find it interesting that he said that part of the reason he joined Dream Theater was because he knew it would raise his profile, so while he has clearly not gotten over getting fired by them, it is likely he would have quit the band once he had a chance at an equally-paying (or better) gig that was more his thing (since I think most would agree he is more of a hard rock guy than a prog guy).  In short, he is likely bitter that he was fired before he had a chance to quit.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: MinistroRaven on June 03, 2019, 08:25:47 AM
(https://i.ibb.co/mthw4s4/61795075-3033496806667941-7169169220188504064-n.jpg) (https://ibb.co/ct2HQ5Q)

SONS OF APOLLO ‘Live With The Plovdiv Psychotic Symphony’ coming in August!

SONS OF APOLLO--former Dream Theater members Mike Portnoy and Derek Sherinian, Ron "Bumblefoot" Thal (ex-Guns N’ Roses), Billy Sheehan (The Winery Dogs, Mr. Big, David Lee Roth) and Jeff Scott Soto (ex-Journey, ex-Yngwie Malmsteen's Rising Force) — are pleased to announce the release of ‘Live With The Plovdiv Psychotic Symphony’ on the 30th August 2019.

‘Live With The Plovdiv Psychotic Symphony’ documents the band’s remarkable one-off performance at the Ancient Roman Theatre in Plovdiv, Bulgaria alongside a full orchestra & choir, playing tracks from their debut album ‘Psychotic Symphony’ as well as a selection of tracks by legendary bands.

Mike Portnoy comments: “I’ve released several dozen live albums through the years with about a dozen different bands, but I have to say that this live release from Sons Of Apollo may indeed be the most special one of them all!! Everything was aligned that evening: an absolutely beautiful Roman amphitheatre and a perfectly gorgeous summer evening, one set of SOA material and one set of specially chosen cover songs, and to top it all off being joined by a symphony orchestra and choir…it was a magical evening for everybody in attendance and now we can share it with the rest of the world immortalized in this incredible live package.

This package will serve as a nice souvenir to capture the band’s first year on tour and should tide over all of our fans while we complete work on our sophomore studio release that will coming in Jan 2020"

The package will be available in many formats including Blu-ray, DVD, CD, Vinyl and Digital...more info coming soon!

The track-listing is as follows:

CD 1:
1. God Of The Sun
2. Signs Of The Time
3. Divine Addiction
4. That Metal Show Theme
5. Just Let Me Breathe
6. Billy Sheehan Bass Solo
7. Lost In Oblivion
8. Jeff Scott Soto Solo Spot (The Prophet’s Song / Save Me)
9. Alive
10. The Pink Panther Theme
11. Opus Maximus

CD 2: (Live w the Plovdiv Psychotic Symphony)
1. Kashmir
2. Gates Of Babylon
3. Labyrinth
4. Dream On
5. Diary Of A Madman
6. Comfortably Numb
7. The Show Must Go On
8. Hell’s Kitchen
9. Derek Sherinian Keyboard Solo
10. Lines In The Sand

CD 3:
1. Bumblefoot Guitar Spot
2. And The Cradle Will Rock
3. Coming Home

Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: MinistroRaven on June 03, 2019, 08:26:19 AM
at lease the cover art it's really good!
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on June 03, 2019, 08:34:06 AM
I'll buy the blu-ray, looks pretty cool.  Sure a covers set isn't terribly interesting, but I'm sure it's an enjoyable watch/listen.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Grappler on June 03, 2019, 08:40:00 AM
I'm excited for the Blu-ray.  I didn't see them live, but I know that pretty much everyone raved about their performances.  This looks like it pretty much has their entire set from that tour, plus the additional cover songs. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Adami on June 03, 2019, 08:40:13 AM
I'll buy it. Feels like they should have done this after a 2nd album, but what can you do?

As far as the covers go, I guess I might be in the minority here (from what I've seen on DTF) but I have little interest in covers that try to be note for note replications of the original. I like covers that put an interesting spin on things, a (at least somewhat) interesting interpretation.

Based on the bootlegs and all of Mike's previous covers, I'm guessing these are as close to note for note replications as possible, plus a bit of an orchestra adding. Not super exciting, but might be neat.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: MirrorMask on June 03, 2019, 08:45:02 AM
If I remember correctly some previous discussions, those classic songs are basically a "bundle" that comes with the orchestra. You can't ask a selected orchestra to learn an obscure B-Side or a japanese bonus track, so what they're already acquainted with is those classic songs everyone know, they most likely didn't learn them on the specific purpouse to play them with Sons of Apollo.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on June 03, 2019, 08:51:11 AM
If I remember correctly some previous discussions, those classic songs are basically a "bundle" that comes with the orchestra. You can't ask a selected orchestra to learn an obscure B-Side or a japanese bonus track, so what they're already acquainted with is those classic songs everyone know, they most likely didn't learn them on the specific purpouse to play them with Sons of Apollo.

So the orchestra already knew how to play Lines in the Sand?

I'm not so sure about this bundle, but I'm sure they picked some safer songs to make it easier for them, maybe they had a say in that too.  But even songs like Diary of a Madman, I'm not entirely sure the orchestra has these songs up their sleeve.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: faizoff on June 03, 2019, 08:59:05 AM
I pretty much buy all MP live bluray releases, even if I'm not that interested in the material because they are always so much fun to watch and so many times they actually change my mind on liking the source material.

Can't wait to get this.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bosk1 on June 03, 2019, 09:26:49 AM
I will absolutely get this.  As I said in the MP thread, this is probably the MP project I am currently the most excited about.  (It isn't my favorite, but that's another set of criteria)  And the show I saw last tour was fantastic, so I'm loving the idea of getting to revisit it.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: axeman90210 on June 03, 2019, 09:40:55 AM
Will definitely check this one out, loved the regular live show and the list of covers is pretty fun.

If I remember correctly some previous discussions, those classic songs are basically a "bundle" that comes with the orchestra. You can't ask a selected orchestra to learn an obscure B-Side or a japanese bonus track, so what they're already acquainted with is those classic songs everyone know, they most likely didn't learn them on the specific purpouse to play them with Sons of Apollo.

So the orchestra already knew how to play Lines in the Sand?

I'm not so sure about this bundle, but I'm sure they picked some safer songs to make it easier for them, maybe they had a say in that too.  But even songs like Diary of a Madman, I'm not entirely sure the orchestra has these songs up their sleeve.

My guess is there's some kind of extra charge for each song the orchestra has to learn and then they maintain a catalogue of popular songs to pad out setlists. I feel like MP doesn't usually go for the big obvious covers when he's building a setlist, we even talked briefly at a Metal Allegiance show about how crazy it is that he's done two full Yellow Matter Custard setlists without doing Hey Jude or Blackbird or Yesterday (although the point at the time was more about the overall strength and depth of the Beatles material). If you gave MP free reign to pick a Zeppelin or Aerosmith or Floyd song to cover I doubt his first choice would be Kashmir or Dream On or Comfortably Numb. Could be that other guys in the band had some input into the setlist, but I'm guessing they shelled out for the orchestra to learn a couple songs in the second set and then took some tunes that they orchestra already knows.

Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: The Walrus on June 03, 2019, 09:44:02 AM
" “I’ve released several dozen live albums through the years with about a dozen different bands, but I have to say that this live release from Sons Of Apollo may indeed be the most special one of them all!!"

More than the 20th Dream Theater anniversary that used an orchestra to play an entire set of their original material, including a 24 minute song and a 43 minute song, 13 years prior to this show? Well far be it from me to call Mike a liar, but... okay! Those classic rock songs must mean a LOT to the man! :lol
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Fritzinger on June 03, 2019, 09:50:32 AM
" “I’ve released several dozen live albums through the years with about a dozen different bands, but I have to say that this live release from Sons Of Apollo may indeed be the most special one of them all!!"

More than the 20th Dream Theater anniversary that used an orchestra to play an entire set of their original material, including a 24 minute song and a 43 minute song, 13 years prior to this show? Well far be it from me to call Mike a liar, but... okay! Those classic rock songs must mean a LOT to the man! :lol

I had the same thought. Sick and tired of MPs overselling. Everything new he brings out the always the best he's ever done. This band has released 1 (one) mediocre hard rock album and what do they do next? They release an opulent live album with  an orchestra and a choir that consists of 60% covers and solo spots because there is not enough material. I don't get this at all.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: The Walrus on June 03, 2019, 09:55:54 AM
That's a less polite but more honest version of what I was thinking!  :lol
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: axeman90210 on June 03, 2019, 09:58:11 AM
Eh, all musicians oversell when they have a new release coming out. Doesn't bother me.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on June 03, 2019, 10:02:37 AM
It is what it is, it's hard to expect an artist to say otherwise even if it's kind of ridiculous to hear people always say their latest is their greatest.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Fritzinger on June 03, 2019, 10:22:40 AM
There are classier ways to do this. Look at Haken. Those guys are the most humble musicians I know and they still let us know that they are proud of what they are about to release. Without saying stuff like "this is the ultimate epic juggernaut masterpiece".
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bosk1 on June 03, 2019, 10:24:55 AM
True.  But if the options are:  (A) humble musicians that put out crap music that makes me want to claw my eardrums out, or (B) obnoxious musicians that put out solid music that I actually like, then I'll take option B.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Evermind on June 03, 2019, 10:47:34 AM
Yeah, it's not a good idea to tell bosk to look at Haken. :lol I'll actually skip both of these options and go for humble musicians that make awesome music. Good thing with how many artists there are today, there's always such an option.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Stadler on June 03, 2019, 11:09:11 AM
Without saying stuff like "this is the ultimate epic juggernaut masterpiece".

HAHAHA. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Fritzinger on June 03, 2019, 11:23:02 AM
I'll actually skip both of these options and go for humble musicians that make awesome music. Good thing with how many artists there are today, there's always such an option.

Exactly.











Like Haken.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Evermind on June 03, 2019, 11:54:24 AM
I'll actually skip both of these options and go for humble musicians that make awesome music. Good thing with how many artists there are today, there's always such an option.

Exactly.











Like Haken.

Exactly like Haken, yep. I'm not disputing that, I love Haken. I travelled to Hamburg this February on my birthday just to see Haken and do a Meet and Greet with them (it went great, too).

But I also know that bosk doesn't like Haken at all, so that's not an option for him. :)
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Setlist Scotty on June 03, 2019, 12:48:42 PM
As far as the covers go, I guess I might be in the minority here (from what I've seen on DTF) but I have little interest in covers that try to be note for note replications of the original. I like covers that put an interesting spin on things, a (at least somewhat) interesting interpretation.
I'm in full agreement. That's the one issue I have/had with DT's covers. I'd rather hear a DT-ized version of a song, rather than their replication of it. It's why I love VH's You Really Got Me, WASP's Easy Living, Hendrix's All Along the Watchtower and Manfred Mann's Blinded by the Light - and the originals much less.
 
 
I will absolutely get this. <snip> this is probably the MP project I am currently the most excited about.
This just about sums it up for me - looking forward to picking up a copy! 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Anguyen92 on June 03, 2019, 01:00:20 PM
As far as the covers go, I guess I might be in the minority here (from what I've seen on DTF) but I have little interest in covers that try to be note for note replications of the original. I like covers that put an interesting spin on things, a (at least somewhat) interesting interpretation.
I'm in full agreement. That's the one issue I have/had with DT's covers. I'd rather hear a DT-ized version of a song, rather than their replication of it. It's why I love VH's You Really Got Me, WASP's Easy Living, Hendrix's All Along the Watchtower and Manfred Mann's Blinded by the Light - and the originals much less.

Yeah, as an example, take a look at when DT covered Xanadu and when Big Wreck covered Closer to the Heart when Rush did the big 40th Anniversary edition of A Farewell to Kings.  DT sounded more note-for-note on Xanadu while Big Wreck took Closer to the Heart and put their own twist to it that didn't sound like the original and it works for a band like Big Wreck.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Samsara on June 03, 2019, 01:04:05 PM
Looking forward to the live album. The tour was a lot of fun.  :metal
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: gzarruk on June 03, 2019, 02:53:55 PM
" “I’ve released several dozen live albums through the years with about a dozen different bands, but I have to say that this live release from Sons Of Apollo may indeed be the most special one of them all!!"

More than the 20th Dream Theater anniversary that used an orchestra to play an entire set of their original material, including a 24 minute song and a 43 minute song, 13 years prior to this show? Well far be it from me to call Mike a liar, but... okay! Those classic rock songs must mean a LOT to the man! :lol

I had the same thought. Sick and tired of MPs overselling. Everything new he brings out the always the best he's ever done. This band has released 1 (one) mediocre hard rock album and what do they do next? They release an opulent live album with  an orchestra and a choir that consists of 60% covers and solo spots because there is not enough material. I don't get this at all.

This man tells it as it is :lol

Seriously, I still don't get why bands record and release covers as part of the "main" deal in their upcoming albums, live or studio. Releasing one or two covers might be ok as bonus material, but if half of your upcoming live album are covers because you just don't have enough songs of your own, I don't think it's the best time to make a live album in the first place.

I have zero interest in this live release, but I'm actually looking forward to their 2nd studio album, since I did like a few songs from the first one.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Mladen on June 03, 2019, 03:26:40 PM
I believe they were invited to perform in Plovdiv with an orchestra and a choir, which for any band is an offer that shouldn't be refused, so they did their best to come up with two sets, which seems to be the rule at this particular festival.

And how can you not use such a brilliant opportunity to record something like this? I know because I saw Opeth in the exact same setting and it was a once-in-a-lifetime experience. I was bummed that they decided not to record it. SoA ceased the day and went for it. I'm not a fan of the band, I didn't like the debut at all, but I'm with them on opting for recording and releasing this live show.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bosk1 on June 03, 2019, 03:38:29 PM
I believe they were invited to perform in Plovdiv with an orchestra and a choir, which for any band is an offer that shouldn't be refused, so they did their best to come up with two sets, which seems to be the rule at this particular festival.

And how can you not use such a brilliant opportunity to record something like this? I know because I saw Opeth in the exact same setting and it was a once-in-a-lifetime experience. I was bummed that they decided not to record it. SoA ceased the day and went for it. I'm not a fan of the band, I didn't like the debut at all, but I'm with them on opting for recording and releasing this live show.

This man tells it as it is.  Those that don't like it don't have to buy it. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Madman Shepherd on June 03, 2019, 03:42:19 PM


CD 3:
1. Bumblefoot Guitar Spot
2. And The Cradle Will Rock
3. Coming Home

The most underwhelming CD in the history of music.

I mean, couldn't throw a few tunes from disc 2 on this just to round it out?

Anyway, I'll probably still buy it. Gut instinct was to get the artbook but do I really need that from a band I'm only sort of into?

Would like to get DVDs and CDs but not pay "special edition" prices.

Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on June 03, 2019, 03:42:39 PM
Yup, and another example is Devin Townsend doing the same a year earlier with the orchestra.  They did one set of his full album and the DVD (I couldn't find it on bluray which is the only dissapointing part) is really awesome.  Looks and sounds cool.  Would be an awesome show to see for sure and while I think it's odd for a band with one album to put out a big production live album, who really cares?  If you aren't into it, you weren't going to buy it anyway.  I am pretty excited for it personally.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: The Walrus on June 03, 2019, 03:53:36 PM
Yeah but I mean Devin could sing the Chinese takeout menu and I'd buy three copies
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bosk1 on June 03, 2019, 04:05:22 PM
And SoA could sing a set consisting of their first album and some covers, and I'd buy one copy.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: The Letter M on June 03, 2019, 04:24:19 PM
I believe they were invited to perform in Plovdiv with an orchestra and a choir, which for any band is an offer that shouldn't be refused, so they did their best to come up with two sets, which seems to be the rule at this particular festival.

And how can you not use such a brilliant opportunity to record something like this? I know because I saw Opeth in the exact same setting and it was a once-in-a-lifetime experience. I was bummed that they decided not to record it. SoA ceased the day and went for it. I'm not a fan of the band, I didn't like the debut at all, but I'm with them on opting for recording and releasing this live show.

Quiescat diem?  :lol :lol :lol

-Marc.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ReaperKK on June 03, 2019, 08:26:32 PM
I'll check this out, not sure if I'll buy it or not, I'll probably wait for some promotional stuff to appear on youtube.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: The Walrus on June 03, 2019, 08:47:04 PM
And SoA could sing a set consisting of their first album and some covers, and I'd buy one copy.

But where's Devin?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: IDontNotDoThings on June 04, 2019, 03:45:46 AM
And SoA could sing a set consisting of their first album and some covers, and I'd buy one copy.

But where's Devin?

What if he's a member of the orchestra :justjen
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: The Walrus on June 04, 2019, 09:10:16 AM
And SoA could sing a set consisting of their first album and some covers, and I'd buy one copy.

But where's Devin?

What if he's a member of the orchestra :justjen

Not even playing an instrument, just doing the "Devin scream" whenever the horn section blares. I love it!  :lol
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ytserush on June 09, 2019, 03:50:20 PM
I was never going to see this band live with the album they released (Although I'm sure it was better live)

 I was always going to get this live package from the time it was announced although it's just going to be the basic CD/DVD package. Not springing for the "added value" of art book, Apollo statue or anything else they might come up with. I think the music would have to justify that and for me it doesn't.

We'll see what happens with album two......
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ProfessorPeart on June 28, 2019, 04:06:23 PM
Pre-order pages are starting to pop up for the live album. I noticed this over on Laser CD regarding the release:

“The CD has the entire gig. But we had problems getting clearance on three of the cover tracks for the Blu-ray and DVD. Sadly, these will not have 'Comfortably Numb' from Pink Floyd, 'Dream On' (Aerosmith) plus 'And The Cradle Will Rock' (Van Halen)."

Looks like different packages for different countries as well. Laser CD has a set that Inside Out's Europe shop doesn't and vice versa.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Adami on June 28, 2019, 04:35:05 PM
That's a shame.

They did this without looking into getting clearance first?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Grappler on June 28, 2019, 05:15:20 PM
That's a shame.

They did this without looking into getting clearance first?

Rights are different for cds and DVDs.  Redemption played Peace Sells on their forthcoming live release from ProgPower.  Nick was up front and said they could release the song on the CD, but have to omit it from the video because of the rights.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: KevShmev on June 28, 2019, 05:21:13 PM
INB4 the painfully rabid Portnoy fan base calls VH, Pink Floyd and Aerosmith a bunch of meanines for not letting their hero release a cover of their copyrighted material.  :P
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Adami on June 28, 2019, 05:37:58 PM
That's a shame.

They did this without looking into getting clearance first?

Rights are different for cds and DVDs.  Redemption played Peace Sells on their forthcoming live release from ProgPower.  Nick was up front and said they could release the song on the CD, but have to omit it from the video because of the rights.

Then why do it? I feel like the whole purpose of this gig was the DVD. It wasn't just a fun gig. Why not just make sure you play songs you can release?

Not a huge deal, just a shame is all.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: TAC on June 28, 2019, 06:19:07 PM
INB4 the painfully rabid Portnoy fan base calls VH, Pink Floyd and Aerosmith a bunch of meanines for not letting their hero release a cover of their copyrighted material.  :P

MP is their hero?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Stadler on June 28, 2019, 08:21:29 PM
That's a shame.

They did this without looking into getting clearance first?

Rights are different for cds and DVDs.  Redemption played Peace Sells on their forthcoming live release from ProgPower.  Nick was up front and said they could release the song on the CD, but have to omit it from the video because of the rights.

Huh, you learn something new every day. I did not know that (but looking back across my collection, it explains some things, I guess.)   

Just musing out loud, why would it be different, though? 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: MinistroRaven on June 29, 2019, 09:34:40 AM
That's a shame.

They did this without looking into getting clearance first?

Rights are different for cds and DVDs.  Redemption played Peace Sells on their forthcoming live release from ProgPower.  Nick was up front and said they could release the song on the CD, but have to omit it from the video because of the rights.

Then why do it? I feel like the whole purpose of this gig was the DVD. It wasn't just a fun gig. Why not just make sure you play songs you can release?

Not a huge deal, just a shame is all.

Agree
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ErHaO on June 29, 2019, 10:52:12 AM
Yeah, it is a bit odd. Shame, but not a dealbreaker for me. I have enjoyed their debut album enough and due to my love of watching live performances, I think I will get plenty of entertainment out of this one.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Adami on June 29, 2019, 10:53:59 AM
I think for me the biggest shame is, oddly enough, the VH song. I remember being unimpressed with the line up when it was first announced. But, if I remember correctly, they played a covers show before we got to hear their first album, and I saw a youtube clip of Cradle will Rock and thought they seemed like a really fun band. Granted, the album didn't live up to that, but it would have been cool seeing that professionally filmed.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Madman Shepherd on June 30, 2019, 02:29:37 PM
I think the rights issue might not be that they didn't get permission but that it was just too expensive. I'm pretty sure anybody can release any song they want and sometimes artists will cut other artists deals, but you gotta pay up.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Architeuthis on June 30, 2019, 02:40:58 PM
This is so rediculous!   If I was a successful artist and a band like SOA covered my song, I'd be stoked and take it as a huge compliment.  I know there's alot more logistics involved, but it's such a shame that these songs won't be included on the live release.  Somebody's always gotta pee in the pool..  :tdwn
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: MirrorMask on June 30, 2019, 03:09:53 PM
That's a shame.

They did this without looking into getting clearance first?

Rights are different for cds and DVDs.  Redemption played Peace Sells on their forthcoming live release from ProgPower.  Nick was up front and said they could release the song on the CD, but have to omit it from the video because of the rights.

Huh, you learn something new every day. I did not know that (but looking back across my collection, it explains some things, I guess.)   

Just musing out loud, why would it be different, though?

I can't really imagine. Maybe some logic that we can't grasp today but it seemed more revelant back in the day when the rule was first applied.... maybe an audio cover is just an audio, something you hear, but visually seeing some guys performing another's piece is "too much" or some bands are fine with just audio reproduction of their material but not with video because video is "more".... something like that maybe?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Adami on June 30, 2019, 03:24:21 PM
This is so rediculous!   If I was a successful artist and a band like SOA covered my song, I'd be stoked and take it as a huge compliment.  I know there's alot more logistics involved, but it's such a shame that these songs won't be included on the live release.  Somebody's always gotta pee in the pool..  :tdwn

I have a feeling this DVD didn't result in Van Halen getting together for a special meeting...

Alex: Okay guys, it's been who knows how many years, but I've brought you all back together for a very important meeting.
DLR: Are we gonna do a reuinion tour?
Michael Anthony: I'm in!
Alex: Huh? No. I said important. This is very VERY important and required all of us to put our differences aside and meet face to face
Eddie: Just tell them Alex...
Alex: Okay, so.....there's this band....I've heard they're the new kings of prog metal. They're called Sons of Apollo...
Michael Anthony: THEY NEED A BASSIST?!? I"M IN!
Eddie: No! They recorded a blu ray and covered And the Cradle Will Rock, and they need our permission to release it..
DLR: Is it good?
Alex: It's....breath taking. Possibly the best rendition in history
Eddie: So can we all agree to bury this? We can't have it. So say we all?
Rest of the band: So say we all!


Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: The Walrus on June 30, 2019, 03:25:19 PM
*chuckles in making history*
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Setlist Scotty on June 30, 2019, 03:28:09 PM
I can't really imagine. Maybe some logic that we can't grasp today but it seemed more revelant back in the day when the rule was first applied.... maybe an audio cover is just an audio, something you hear, but visually seeing some guys performing another's piece is "too much" or some bands are fine with just audio reproduction of their material but not with video because video is "more".... something like that maybe?
Yeah - people will be able to watch Bumblefoot and Derek play Eddie's parts and learn how to do it themselves!   :P   (Remember, back in their club days, Eddie would turn away from the audience so no one could learn how he was playing his guitar)
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Architeuthis on June 30, 2019, 04:17:43 PM
This is so rediculous!   If I was a successful artist and a band like SOA covered my song, I'd be stoked and take it as a huge compliment.  I know there's alot more logistics involved, but it's such a shame that these songs won't be included on the live release.  Somebody's always gotta pee in the pool..  :tdwn

I have a feeling this DVD didn't result in Van Halen getting together for a special meeting...

Alex: Okay guys, it's been who knows how many years, but I've brought you all back together for a very important meeting.
DLR: Are we gonna do a reuinion tour?
Michael Anthony: I'm in!
Alex: Huh? No. I said important. This is very VERY important and required all of us to put our differences aside and meet face to face
Eddie: Just tell them Alex...
Alex: Okay, so.....there's this band....I've heard they're the new kings of prog metal. They're called Sons of Apollo...
Michael Anthony: THEY NEED A BASSIST?!? I"M IN!
Eddie: No! They recorded a blu ray and covered And the Cradle Will Rock, and they need our permission to release it..
DLR: Is it good?
Alex: It's....breath taking. Possibly the best rendition in history
Eddie: So can we all agree to bury this? We can't have it. So say we all?
Rest of the band: So say we all!
:lol
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: KevShmev on June 30, 2019, 04:19:18 PM
This is so rediculous!   If I was a successful artist and a band like SOA covered my song, I'd be stoked and take it as a huge compliment.  I know there's alot more logistics involved, but it's such a shame that these songs won't be included on the live release.  Somebody's always gotta pee in the pool..  :tdwn

And there it is...:lol :lol
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Stadler on July 01, 2019, 09:46:18 AM
Not for nothing, but Michael Anthony would be nowhere near that meeting.  :)   Kidding.

But in all seriousness, it's likely not the artists themselves.   You hear about this a lot:  so-and-so wants to cover a song, so they call the artist themselves for "permission", but it still has to go to the HOLDER OF THE COPYRIGHT.  For example, Paul McCartney does NOT own the rights to the Northern Songs catalogue (that's who published most of the Beatles songs) but DOES own the rights to Buddy Holly's publishing, oddly enough.

I don't know when SOA went for clearances, but as we know now, there were rumblings, confirmed by Michael Anthony recently, that the original band was supposed to be rehearsing right now for a stadium tour this summer.  I can easily see management saying "eh, the time is not right for this".   Remember, they know who SOA are; Billy Sheehan toured the world (twice) with Diamond Dave.    I believe there is a connection between Derek and Eddie as well.   
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on July 02, 2019, 12:00:12 PM
It's funny, I got two of my youtube videos removed for copyright.  I've never had this happen before, both were Sons of Apollo.  First last week my progpower video was removed and then it got my Sons of Apollo NYC video:

Quote
Due to a copyright claim, your YouTube video has been blocked. This means that your video can no longer be played on YouTube.

Video title: ProgPower USA XIX *cramx3 concert experience* Center Stage Atlanta 2018
Copyrighted content: JSS Solo Spot: The Prophet's Song/Save Me (Live at the Roman Amphitheatre in Plovdiv 2018)
Claimed by: SME

I think it's odd to all of a sudden get copyright claims on a live album that was recorded after the shows I went to and not even released yet (so how is it possible to get a copyright on something not even made yet since it's specific to this new live album).  I'm thinking, the performance sounds so close to what I recorded that an automatical algorithm picked it up thinking it was these new tracks.  I initially thought it was because it was a Queen cover and that would be an issue but the NYC video got taken off for a different song:

Quote
Due to a copyright claim, your YouTube video has been blocked. This means that your video can no longer be played on YouTube.

Video title: Sons of Apollo - LIVE @ Playstation Theater New York City NY 5/18/18 *cramx3 concert experience*
Copyrighted content: Labyrinth (Live at the Roman Amphitheatre in Plovdiv 2018)
Claimed by: SME
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Stadler on July 02, 2019, 12:07:57 PM
Sounds like someone hired a new lawyer who is trying to make his bones.  ;)
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bosk1 on July 02, 2019, 12:13:11 PM
Or someone rattled YouTube's cage enough that they adjusted their settings and temporarily have more people searching for "violations."  It seems to go in waves.  Things have been pretty loose for a little bit now.  Seems like they are maybe overcorrecting.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on July 02, 2019, 12:17:13 PM
Or someone rattled YouTube's cage enough that they adjusted their settings and temporarily have more people searching for "violations."  It seems to go in waves.  Things have been pretty loose for a little bit now.  Seems like they are maybe overcorrecting.

That happened a month or two ago, almost every video I had that didn't have a claim, got one which is fine, that just means any money (if there is) goes to the copyright owner.  This is a first of videos being removed before a release is even done.  I mean there is no way my audio is from Plovdiv either lol Not the end of the world, but it seems like a mistake due to algorithm.  If they said copyright from their album, it would make sense.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: TAC on July 02, 2019, 12:35:12 PM
I'd rather watch Cram's videos than the upcoming symPHONY thing coming out, I can tell you that.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on July 02, 2019, 12:41:21 PM
I'd rather watch Cram's videos than the upcoming symPHONY thing coming out, I can tell you that.

 :lol my video of Alive from NYC (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BpInsE1NzcY) is still up.  Looks like others from the same concerts are too from other people.  My audio is too good  :biggrin:
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Samsara on July 02, 2019, 01:45:56 PM
I looked at the video manager on my youtube account. Most of the videos are tagged now on the back end as "includes copyrighted content," which if clicked on, says that the claimant is allowing it and it is now generating them money. I don't appear to have any blocked. This is the first time I have noticed this.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: The Walrus on July 02, 2019, 01:47:43 PM
Or someone rattled YouTube's cage enough that they adjusted their settings and temporarily have more people searching for "violations."  It seems to go in waves.  Things have been pretty loose for a little bit now.  Seems like they are maybe overcorrecting.

It's not even people most of the time. It's algorithms.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on July 02, 2019, 01:59:09 PM
Or someone rattled YouTube's cage enough that they adjusted their settings and temporarily have more people searching for "violations."  It seems to go in waves.  Things have been pretty loose for a little bit now.  Seems like they are maybe overcorrecting.

It's not even people most of the time. It's algorithms.

Yup, I'm not sure since this doesn't specifically say a person, but I did have my Misfits videos pulled down specifically by request of "Glenn Danzig" and it was explicit of that. This is quite different as all it said was what I posted.  Apparently I can use the youtube video editor to block out the sound during the reference copyright claim, but I haven't gotten around to successfully getting that to work.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Stadler on July 02, 2019, 03:03:31 PM
Or someone rattled YouTube's cage enough that they adjusted their settings and temporarily have more people searching for "violations."  It seems to go in waves.  Things have been pretty loose for a little bit now.  Seems like they are maybe overcorrecting.

It's not even people most of the time. It's algorithms.

Yup, I'm not sure since this doesn't specifically say a person, but I did have my Misfits videos pulled down specifically by request of "Glenn Danzig" and it was explicit of that. This is quite different as all it said was what I posted.  Apparently I can use the youtube video editor to block out the sound during the reference copyright claim, but I haven't gotten around to successfully getting that to work.

MUTHA!!!
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on July 02, 2019, 03:11:15 PM
It was from a show last year with the Misfits which apparently he is contractually obligated to do due to some court settlement  :lol He was so terrible, there was no Mutha more "I've got something to..." mumble as I catch my breathe
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: deggs37 on July 04, 2019, 09:52:05 PM
Or someone rattled YouTube's cage enough that they adjusted their settings and temporarily have more people searching for "violations."  It seems to go in waves.  Things have been pretty loose for a little bit now.  Seems like they are maybe overcorrecting.

It's not even people most of the time. It's algorithms.

Yup, I'm not sure since this doesn't specifically say a person, but I did have my Misfits videos pulled down specifically by request of "Glenn Danzig" and it was explicit of that. This is quite different as all it said was what I posted.  Apparently I can use the youtube video editor to block out the sound during the reference copyright claim, but I haven't gotten around to successfully getting that to work.

MUTHA!!!

Tell your children not to upload my vids
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: MinistroRaven on July 09, 2019, 07:06:00 AM
SONS OF APOLLO – ‘Live With The Plovdiv Psychotic Symphony’ trailer; pre-orders start

SONS OF APOLLO--former Dream Theater members Mike Portnoy and Derek Sherinian, Ron "Bumblefoot" Thal (ex-Guns N’ Roses), Billy Sheehan (The Winery Dogs, Mr. Big, David Lee Roth) and Jeff Scott Soto (ex-Journey, ex-Yngwie Malmsteen's Rising Force) — are pleased to announce the release of ‘Live With The Plovdiv Psychotic Symphony’ on the 30th August 2019.
 
‘Live With The Plovdiv Psychotic Symphony’ documents the band’s remarkable one-off performance at the Ancient Roman Theatre in Plovdiv, Bulgaria alongside a full orchestra & choir, playing tracks from their debut album ‘Psychotic Symphony’ as well as a selection of tracks by legendary bands. It will be available as a limited deluxe 3CD + DVD + Blu-Ray Artbook, Special Edition 3CD + DVD Digipak, Standalone Blu-Ray & Digital Album.
 
You can now watch a trailer for release here: https://youtu.be/pw2wz-7cEp0
 
Pre-orders for all formats are now available here: https://soa.lnk.to/LiveWithThePlovdivPsychoticSymphony
 
Mike Portnoy comments: “I’ve released several dozen live albums through the years with about a dozen different bands, but I have to say that this live release from Sons Of Apollo may indeed be the most special one of them all!! Everything was aligned that evening: an absolutely beautiful Roman amphitheatre and a perfectly gorgeous summer evening, one set of SOA material and one set of specially chosen cover songs, and to top it all off being joined by a symphony orchestra and choir…it was a magical evening for everybody in attendance and now we can share it with the rest of the world immortalized in this incredible live package.
 
This package will serve as a nice souvenir to capture the band’s first year on tour and should tide over all of our fans while we complete work on our sophomore studio release that will coming in Jan 2020"
 
The track-listing is as follows:
CD 1:
1. God Of The Sun
2. Signs Of The Time
3. Divine Addiction
4. That Metal Show Theme 
5. Just Let Me Breathe
6. Billy Sheehan Bass Solo
7. Lost In Oblivion
8. Jeff Scott Soto Solo Spot (The Prophet’s Song / Save Me)
9. Alive
10. The Pink Panther Theme
11. Opus Maximus
 
CD 2:
1. Kashmir
2. Gates Of Babylon
3. Labyrinth
4. Dream On
5. Diary Of A Madman
6. Comfortably Numb
7. The Show Must Go On
8. Hell’s Kitchen
9. Derek Sherinian Keyboard Solo
10. Lines In The Sand
 
CD 3:
1. Bumblefoot Guitar Spot
2. And The Cradle Will Rock
3. Coming Home
 
https://youtu.be/pw2wz-7cEp0
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on July 09, 2019, 07:16:01 AM
Trailer looks and sounds good
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bosk1 on July 09, 2019, 07:46:10 AM
Yeah, I'll get this.  :tup
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Grappler on July 09, 2019, 07:56:00 AM
Looks awesome...I'm excited for it since I didn't see the band live.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Samsara on July 09, 2019, 08:18:44 AM
It was a GREAT show. Amazon also has the big set (on physical media) up for pre-order now. 37.99 USD.

p.s. just watched the trailer and agree about the vocals in the mix. It seems really off. If this is the vocal mix of the release, I may have to cancel my order. It did not sound good (I listened with headphones).
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: KevShmev on July 09, 2019, 08:34:28 AM

 
Mike Portnoy comments: “I’ve released several dozen live albums through the years with about a dozen different bands, but I have to say that this live release from Sons Of Apollo may indeed be the most special one of them all!!

Mike Portnoy: Taking hyperbole to the next level since the invention of the internet!!
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Grappler on July 09, 2019, 08:40:02 AM
It was a GREAT show. Amazon also has the big set (on physical media) up for pre-order now. 37.99 USD.

p.s. just watched the trailer and agree about the vocals in the mix. It seems really off. If this is the vocal mix of the release, I may have to cancel my order. It did not sound good (I listened with headphones).

I felt like the guitars were lacking in punch.  The studio album has a killer guitar sound, and they were very thin in that trailer.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on July 09, 2019, 08:44:27 AM
I liked the sound because it sounded raw and live, I don't want the same sound as the album.  I do think Jeff sounded a little rough but it also sounded legit and not studio magic.  I'm cool with that, we still have the studio album.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: goo-goo on July 09, 2019, 10:09:43 AM
It was a GREAT show. Amazon also has the big set (on physical media) up for pre-order now. 37.99 USD.

p.s. just watched the trailer and agree about the vocals in the mix. It seems really off. If this is the vocal mix of the release, I may have to cancel my order. It did not sound good (I listened with headphones).

There are "two" big sets: one of them is the artbook and the other one is a digipack. Both have the 3CD/1DVD/1BR media. I think the 37.99 is the digipack version.

Digipack: https://www.lasercd.com/cd/live-plovdiv-psychotic-symphony-3cddvdblu-ray-preorder
Artbook: https://www.lasercd.com/cd/live-plovdiv-psychotic-symphony-artbook-preorder
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: JayOctavarium on July 09, 2019, 10:11:38 AM
I liked the sound because it sounded raw and live, I don't want the same sound as the album.  I do think Jeff sounded a little rough but it also sounded legit and not studio magic.  I'm cool with that, we still have the studio album.

this
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Kocak on July 09, 2019, 10:29:33 AM

 
Mike Portnoy comments: “I’ve released several dozen live albums through the years with about a dozen different bands, but I have to say that this live release from Sons Of Apollo may indeed be the most special one of them all!!

Mike Portnoy: Taking hyperbole to the next level since the invention of the internet!!

Regardless of the musician it's coming from, I really dislike these kinds of statements.
Another version of this is: "This is our best effort to date."
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Stadler on July 11, 2019, 10:11:56 AM
Only topped by the "the songs are good, but the production sucks!" about older albums.  I bet you could find 10 interviews with both Gene Simmons and Joe Perry where they celebrate the songs, but knock "the production". 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Adami on July 11, 2019, 11:54:40 AM
I’ll still probably check it out but that trailer only made me question my initial reaction which was to buy it.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: JLa on July 11, 2019, 12:05:58 PM
Quote from: Kocak
Regardless of the musician it's coming from, I really dislike these kinds of statements.
Another version of this is: "This is our best effort to date."

What do you want them to say? "Oh, this new one is alright, but you know, the previous one was better!"
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Stadler on July 11, 2019, 12:10:28 PM
Quote from: Kocak
Regardless of the musician it's coming from, I really dislike these kinds of statements.
Another version of this is: "This is our best effort to date."

What do you want them to say? "Oh, this new one is alright, but you know, the previous one was better!"

Neither.  Would you say either one about your kid?   "Well, our first was special, but we had five years of sex building up to it.  The second kid was a rush job, we were on tour, and it just happened.   But we decided to take our time with the third, candles, toys, essential oils, and I think it shows.  But really, this fourth kid, my god, is she special.  I couldn't be prouder of this kid."

Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: JLa on July 11, 2019, 12:13:11 PM
So, they should say all their records are equally amazing?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Evermind on July 11, 2019, 12:16:54 PM
I guess maybe just let the audience decide if it's amazing or not.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: MirrorMask on July 11, 2019, 12:22:26 PM
I believe Janick Gers, anyway it was a Maiden guy, said "you never say it's your best album period, but that it's your best album that you could do at the time", something that captures the frame of mind of the band in the moment it was recorded.

If I were a musician, I'd make a vacation analogy: "Last year you went to San Francisco, the Golden Gate, the colorful houses, the trams, the roads going up and down... cool! but this year you have the chance to go to New York, the Big Apple, Manhattan, Central Park, the skyscrapers... what are you excited the most about, seeing a new amazing city or going back to San Francisco once again? same for us! three years ago we were focused on doing the X kind of album, but right now we wanted to do an Y kind of album, so this is the album we believe in at this moment! then I don't know where our muse will take us next time around!"
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on July 11, 2019, 12:45:09 PM
It's a lot easier to say it's the best thing since sliced bread  :lol

honestly, I just overlook these things.  It's people giving stock responses which happens when you get famous and asked the same question over and over again.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Orbert on July 11, 2019, 12:55:17 PM
Say you're proud of it, say you're happy with how it turned out, that you're excited about it, that you can't wait for people to hear it, any of those things.  But as soon as you say "This is the best thing we've ever done!" then by definition you're saying that everything else thus far is inferior. 

There will always be new fans, people checking you out for the first time.  If they listen to it and don't like it, and it's supposedly the best thing you've ever done, then there's no point in bothering with any of the older stuff.  You yourself have said it's inferior.  So don't do that.  Leave it up to the listener.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Cool Chris on July 11, 2019, 01:02:29 PM
It's a lot easier to say it's the best thing since sliced bread  :lol

As much as a love sandwiches, is sliced bread really the benchmark of human achievement?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Adami on July 11, 2019, 01:03:21 PM
It's a lot easier to say it's the best thing since sliced bread  :lol

As much as a love sandwiches, is sliced bread really the benchmark of human achievement?

No, it's not. Especially since the benchmark of human achievement is Betty White, who predates sliced bread and was not bested by that invention.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Anxiety35 on July 11, 2019, 03:30:51 PM
Instead of saying it's the best thing you've ever done, etc., why not say that it's your current favorite or that this is something that you're really excited about? That way, it doesn't undermine any of your previous work and it doesn't sound like marketing 101.

For example:
"We're really thrilled about this live release. It was fun to perform and being able to share it with fans is awesome."
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Adami on July 11, 2019, 03:48:04 PM
Yea, MP has some issues with this, but honestly the person I see doing this to an extreme degree is Corey Taylor.

"So Corey, how is the new Stone Sour album?"
"Oh my god man, it is going to BLOW YOUR MINDS! This is not just the best Stone Sour album, but maybe the best album made by humans. When you listen to it, it will change your life. You will not be the same person as you were before. You may walk away a different gender, different ethnicity, different age. Hell, you might not even be human after you listen to it. It is seriously the biggest game changer to ever happen in the history of earth!"
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Spiritus on July 11, 2019, 03:55:14 PM
Yea, MP has some issues with this, but honestly the person I see doing this to an extreme degree is Corey Taylor.

"So Corey, how is the new Stone Sour album?"
"Oh my god man, it is going to BLOW YOUR MINDS! This is not just the best Stone Sour album, but maybe the best album made by humans. When you listen to it, it will change your life. You will not be the same person as you were before. You may walk away a different gender, different ethnicity, different age. Hell, you might not even be human after you listen to it. It is seriously the biggest game changer to ever happen in the history of earth!"

Uggh, that guy. I literally just scrolled down blabbermouth 2min ago and yup,  there he is again. He really loves the sound of his own voice and probably sniffs his own farts believing they are better than sliced bread..  ahmm sorry.  I just can't stand that guy.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Anguyen92 on July 11, 2019, 04:32:41 PM
I think in all fairness to Corey Taylor, sites like Blabbermouth and Ultimate-Guitar really loves the sound of his own voice which is why they ask him questions about anything.  Even questions not relating to his own bands, but other bands.  Yet, Corey still answers it anyway and Blabbermouth and the likes reaps those clicks.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: TAC on July 11, 2019, 06:45:22 PM
It's a lot easier to say it's the best thing since sliced bread  :lol

As much as a love sandwiches, is sliced bread really the benchmark of human achievement?

No, it's not. Especially since the benchmark of human achievement is Betty White, who predates sliced bread and was not bested by that invention.

She is crusty though.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Adami on July 11, 2019, 07:12:57 PM
Yea, MP has some issues with this, but honestly the person I see doing this to an extreme degree is Corey Taylor.

"So Corey, how is the new Stone Sour album?"
"Oh my god man, it is going to BLOW YOUR MINDS! This is not just the best Stone Sour album, but maybe the best album made by humans. When you listen to it, it will change your life. You will not be the same person as you were before. You may walk away a different gender, different ethnicity, different age. Hell, you might not even be human after you listen to it. It is seriously the biggest game changer to ever happen in the history of earth!"

Uggh, that guy. I literally just scrolled down blabbermouth 2min ago and yup,  there he is again. He really loves the sound of his own voice and probably sniffs his own farts believing they are better than sliced bread..  ahmm sorry.  I just can't stand that guy.

I really love his singing. Slipknot and Stone Sour have incredible vocals. I just don’t pay much attention to him off stage.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: SystematicThought on July 11, 2019, 07:22:59 PM
I'll take MP's "best live album I've ever done" comments over his (usually not accurate) "This new album is like A Change of Seasons, The Glass Prison, Octavarium, Learning To Live, and Pull Me Under all on one album" descriptions. That was his description of Black Clouds and Silver Linings, and it doesn't live up to that other than song lengths. He did that with a Neal Morse album recently too with band comparisons, and they're never really like the descriptions. I don't know why, those hype comments just kind of get an eye roll from me.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: MirrorMask on July 12, 2019, 01:08:06 AM
I think he assumed more the vibe. Yeah, it was still an outlandish comparison, but probably he meant that A Rite of Passage was catchy like PMU, The Count of Tuscany was an epic with at least a dreamy, spacey section like Octavarium, Nightmare was an heavy long epic like ACoS can be loosely described, Best of Times had that I&W vibe like Learning to Live and well, Shattered Fortress of course reminds of The Glass Prison.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: gzarruk on July 12, 2019, 07:50:12 AM
I think he assumed more the vibe. Yeah, it was still an outlandish comparison, but probably he meant that A Rite of Passage was catchy like PMU, The Count of Tuscany was an epic with at least a dreamy, spacey section like Octavarium, Nightmare was an heavy long epic like ACoS can be loosely described, Best of Times had that I&W vibe like Learning to Live and well, Shattered Fortress of course reminds of The Glass Prison.

Still, Mike has a history of over hyping every new thing he comes up with. Remember that SOA was going to be the best progressive metal band mankind has ever known? Or that TSOAD was the best album of their careers and was going to top charts everywhere? Or that AMOB were the new revelation in heavy metal? It's one thing to stand 100% behind your music/art because you're proud of it, and I fully support that, but it's a very different thing to say that this new ______ (fill blank space) is the best thing you've ever done, only to say the same exact thing once the next one comes.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Adami on July 12, 2019, 08:01:06 AM
I think he assumed more the vibe. Yeah, it was still an outlandish comparison, but probably he meant that A Rite of Passage was catchy like PMU, The Count of Tuscany was an epic with at least a dreamy, spacey section like Octavarium, Nightmare was an heavy long epic like ACoS can be loosely described, Best of Times had that I&W vibe like Learning to Live and well, Shattered Fortress of course reminds of The Glass Prison.

I don't think that matters. He really should know how his comments would be interpreted.

If I compare Smells like Teen Spirit to Enter Sandman, people will think I'm nuts.

It wouldn't matter if all I meant was that they both start with clean guitar before getting heavier, you know?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Cool Chris on July 12, 2019, 10:26:43 AM
I'll take MP's "best live album I've ever done" comments over his (usually not accurate) "This new album is like A Change of Seasons, The Glass Prison, Octavarium, Learning To Live, and Pull Me Under all on one album" descriptions. That was his description of Black Clouds and Silver Linings, and it doesn't live up to that other than song lengths. He did that with a Neal Morse album recently too with band comparisons, and they're never really like the descriptions. I don't know why, those hype comments just kind of get an eye roll from me.

Oh god just the other day I was trying to recall that exact quote he made hyping BCaSL. Thanks for posting and reminding me how silly it was.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Setlist Scotty on July 12, 2019, 08:05:45 PM
Remember that SOA was going to be the best progressive metal band mankind has ever known?
In all fairness tho, those comments were made *before* they started working on the album. It was what they intended to do, but once they got started, it wasn't exactly the direction they ended up going in, and they admitted that being the case in later interviews.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: gzarruk on July 12, 2019, 08:49:40 PM
Remember that SOA was going to be the best progressive metal band mankind has ever known?
In all fairness tho, those comments were made *before* they started working on the album. It was what they intended to do, but once they got started, it wasn't exactly the direction they ended up going in, and they admitted that being the case in later interviews.

You're right about the musical direction, but that doesn't change the fact that he was completely overhyping the band. Whether the album was "prog metal" or not, he still set the bar unrealistically high and, obviously, the album didn't live up to that.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: TAC on July 12, 2019, 08:51:02 PM
He could've set the bar low, and it still wouldn't have lived up to it.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on July 12, 2019, 08:53:34 PM
Remember that SOA was going to be the best progressive metal band mankind has ever known?
In all fairness tho, those comments were made *before* they started working on the album. It was what they intended to do, but once they got started, it wasn't exactly the direction they ended up going in, and they admitted that being the case in later interviews.

You're right about the musical direction, but that doesn't change the fact that he was completely overhyping the band. Whether the album was "prog metal" or not, he still set the bar unrealistically high and, obviously, the album didn't live up to that.

And lets not forget about the shots at DT in the process. This band got off on the wrong foot before releasing any music sadly.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Cool Chris on July 12, 2019, 09:11:43 PM
Remember that SOA was going to be the best progressive metal band mankind has ever known?
In all fairness tho, those comments were made *before* they started working on the album. It was what they intended to do, but once they got started, it wasn't exactly the direction they ended up going in, and they admitted that being the case in later interviews.

He made those comments *before* the band started working together? Yikes.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: gzarruk on July 12, 2019, 09:30:32 PM
He could've set the bar low, and it still wouldn't have lived up to it.

That too :lol

Remember that SOA was going to be the best progressive metal band mankind has ever known?
In all fairness tho, those comments were made *before* they started working on the album. It was what they intended to do, but once they got started, it wasn't exactly the direction they ended up going in, and they admitted that being the case in later interviews.

You're right about the musical direction, but that doesn't change the fact that he was completely overhyping the band. Whether the album was "prog metal" or not, he still set the bar unrealistically high and, obviously, the album didn't live up to that.

And lets not forget about the shots at DT in the process. This band got off on the wrong foot before releasing any music sadly.

They alienated a lot of their potential fanbase before releasing anything, but, to be fair, that was mostly Derek (Mike contributed, a lot, but Derek was/is the primary source for that).
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: SystematicThought on July 12, 2019, 09:45:13 PM
I remember when Derek started ripping on me on Facebook when I commented that it’s sad to see former band members rip on their former bands and that it wasn’t smart business to do so. After that, I decided to never listen to a note of Sons of Apollo. I broke that rule, but what I heard never really got me interested to investigate further. Happy to see others enjoy it though
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: DTA on July 13, 2019, 03:28:32 AM
That clip sounds like shit. The mix is bizarre and the vocals sound really out of place. Does anyone listen to the final version of these mixes anymore or is everything just sped up to get something released quickly?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Madman Shepherd on July 13, 2019, 12:48:16 PM
Remember that SOA was going to be the best progressive metal band mankind has ever known?
In all fairness tho, those comments were made *before* they started working on the album. It was what they intended to do, but once they got started, it wasn't exactly the direction they ended up going in, and they admitted that being the case in later interviews.

He made those comments *before* the band started working together? Yikes.

 :lol In all fairness, they made those comments before they knew what they were talking about.  :lol

That clip sounds like shit. The mix is bizarre and the vocals sound really out of place. Does anyone listen to the final version of these mixes anymore or is everything just sped up to get something released quickly?

There's something up with Jeff's voice. He's obviously a good singer but he sounds pretty strained. They need to add some reverb or something
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Architeuthis on July 14, 2019, 09:29:20 PM
Yep, the vocals sound way too dry on the sound clip. I hope the overall quality is better than that..
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Lynxo on July 15, 2019, 09:07:36 AM
Yeah, I was really surprised how strained Jeff sounds. It sounds like he had a bit off an off night. And the mix certainly doesn't help either.
I really can't believe they would release something that sounds like this.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: The Walrus on July 15, 2019, 09:27:35 AM
Sons of Appallo  :lol
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Adami on July 15, 2019, 10:03:42 AM
Yea, beyond the mix, Jeff sounds really rough. It sounds like he lost a whole lot of his range and maybe singing songs like The Shot Must Go On isn't a great idea.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: MinistroRaven on July 16, 2019, 06:48:33 AM
MP posted this at FB:

HOLY SHIT!! I was sent the @sonsofapollo1 Plovdiv Blu-Ray “check disc” to approve all the navigation, authoring, bonus features etc
Just watched in my theater and was BLOWN AWAY!!
This shit is Fucking AMAZING...
One of the greatest shows and live releases of my career!!
I am sooo proud of this release and can’t wait for you all to experience it!!!!!
(Shhh...I think @insideoutmusic may have your first taste coming soon...😉)

https://www.facebook.com/116713035013014/posts/3151268681557419?s=517009568&v=e&sfns=mo

One Person commented:

“Was the mix fixed... Different from the last promo posted?”

And MP replied: “Mark Walsh The Mix is fine...y’all need to the chill...this sounds AWESOME!”

Honestly it seems the vocal tracks has been improved/corrected/fixed even listening from a phone recording, there’s a HUGE difference between the trailer and this

Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Art on July 16, 2019, 07:42:14 AM
Soto does sound really bad on this preview. :sad:
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: The Walrus on July 16, 2019, 07:46:55 AM
If you read the comments on that post they aren't even that bad by any stretch. Just some people commenting that the vocals don't sound good, maybe like three or four people. Is that really all it takes to get under Mike's skin these days? Yikes.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: MinistroRaven on July 16, 2019, 08:06:52 AM
If you read the comments on that post they aren't even that bad by any stretch. Just some people commenting that the vocals don't sound good, maybe like three or four people. Is that really all it takes to get under Mike's skin these days? Yikes.

Yeah, I noticed that. And none of those few comments seemed malicious.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: The Walrus on July 16, 2019, 08:16:56 AM
If you read the comments on that post they aren't even that bad by any stretch. Just some people commenting that the vocals don't sound good, maybe like three or four people. Is that really all it takes to get under Mike's skin these days? Yikes.

Yeah, I noticed that. And none of those few comments seemed malicious.

I guess I just shouldn't be surprised, but here we are. (edit: Seriously, how is it that the guy who was all about 'teh nuggetz' for so many years is getting his panties in a wad because a couple people voiced mild dissatisfaction with the mix of the vocals and telling people to chill as if nitpicking this stuff is news to him 30+ years into his career?)
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: MirrorMask on July 16, 2019, 08:20:49 AM
What if he just reads this thread and when he goes on FB even the few comments exasperate him, because he finds confirmation that it's just not this forum who notices certain things?  :biggrin:
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: nobloodyname on July 16, 2019, 09:24:55 AM
All he said was "chill", wasn't it? I had a quick look at the thread on Facebook and really couldn't see anything weird about his response. I'm always getting told by my MD to chill, it's just a word he likes to use.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on July 16, 2019, 09:27:36 AM
What if he just reads this thread and when he goes on FB even the few comments exasperate him, because he finds confirmation that it's just not this forum who notices certain things?  :biggrin:

He probably then thinks its the same people
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: The Walrus on July 16, 2019, 09:41:03 AM
All he said was "chill", wasn't it? I had a quick look at the thread on Facebook and really couldn't see anything weird about his response. I'm always getting told by my MD to chill, it's just a word he likes to use.

The comment in and of itself isn't problematic, it's just another example of his thin-skinned reactionary behavior towards fans. Like when he shamed a fan who paid good money to come to his gig and had the gall to wear a Dream Theater shirt, or when he told a fan about "a little invention called an airplane" when he couldn't travel to another country just to see MP on stage, or how he goes out of his way to tell people he's blocking them on Facebook and Twitter, or how he lashed out at a hospital for not giving him the star #1 priority treatment... the list goes on and on. Someone asked a legitimate question about the mix and he responds with, "CHILL!!" - a lot of other artists, smaller and far less famous, tend to answer those questions happily without telling their fans to 'chill.' That said it's just a Facebook comment, not really a big deal. But, we're on DTF. Hence this longwinded post.  :lol :lol
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: KevShmev on July 16, 2019, 09:54:39 AM
Mike Portnoy is the Kanye West of the prog metal world, always patting themselves on the back. :lol :lol
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Architeuthis on July 16, 2019, 10:07:37 AM
The updated clip sounded much better!   :tup
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Adami on July 16, 2019, 10:09:16 AM
Honestly, it wasn't so much the mix as JSS's performance that turned me off.

I liked him a lot in the past, but he really just feels like he's past his prime and lost most of his range. This would be fine except for the number of cover songs/DT songs that require a range that JSS just doesn't have anymore.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: MinistroRaven on July 16, 2019, 10:14:32 AM
The updated clip sounded much better!   :tup

It does
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on July 16, 2019, 12:48:01 PM
Honestly, it wasn't so much the mix as JSS's performance that turned me off.

I liked him a lot in the past, but he really just feels like he's past his prime and lost most of his range. This would be fine except for the number of cover songs/DT songs that require a range that JSS just doesn't have anymore.

I couldn't tell you about his past, but I can tell you he blew my mind with how good his voice was live the two times I saw him with SOA.  I'd share my clips with you as proof (he sounded sooo good in my videos my point being it wasn't just an in person thing) but youtube took them down. I didn't think he sounded good in that promo clip, but I'm not sure this is a good example to go off of how he actually sounds these days.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Adami on July 16, 2019, 12:52:58 PM
Honestly, it wasn't so much the mix as JSS's performance that turned me off.

I liked him a lot in the past, but he really just feels like he's past his prime and lost most of his range. This would be fine except for the number of cover songs/DT songs that require a range that JSS just doesn't have anymore.

I couldn't tell you about his past, but I can tell you he blew my mind with how good his voice was live the two times I saw him with SOA.  I'd share my clips with you as proof (he sounded sooo good in my videos my point being it wasn't just an in person thing) but youtube took them down. I didn't think he sounded good in that promo clip, but I'm not sure this is a good example to go off of how he actually sounds these days.

Uh huh. Totally not suspicious at all.

I actually had proof that Geoff Tate sounds amazing. But my dog ate it.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: The Walrus on July 16, 2019, 01:01:24 PM
Saw Geoff Tate in May, can confirm he is awesome live :neverusethis:
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on July 16, 2019, 01:13:18 PM
Saw Geoff Tate in May, can confirm he is awesome live :neverusethis:

Yup, and I can confirm he sounded good in NJ, and I DO have video of that  :lol

This just made me want to find my buried tweet of Jeff that he enjoyed of his dance moves (and it's still up!)  :lol https://twitter.com/Cramx3/status/997898913968476160 (https://twitter.com/Cramx3/status/997898913968476160)
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Stadler on July 16, 2019, 01:59:13 PM
Honestly, it wasn't so much the mix as JSS's performance that turned me off.

I liked him a lot in the past, but he really just feels like he's past his prime and lost most of his range. This would be fine except for the number of cover songs/DT songs that require a range that JSS just doesn't have anymore.

I couldn't tell you about his past, but I can tell you he blew my mind with how good his voice was live the two times I saw him with SOA.  I'd share my clips with you as proof (he sounded sooo good in my videos my point being it wasn't just an in person thing) but youtube took them down. I didn't think he sounded good in that promo clip, but I'm not sure this is a good example to go off of how he actually sounds these days.

He was great when I saw them in Worcester. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Adami on July 16, 2019, 02:50:45 PM
I did point out that the major problem with his range seems to be from those cover songs. Were they playing The Show Must Go On and such at your shows? Cause they wrote the original material to be within his range.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on July 16, 2019, 02:54:58 PM
I did point out that the major problem with his range seems to be from those cover songs. Were they playing The Show Must Go On and such at your shows? Cause they wrote the original material to be within his range.

No, he did the Queen tribute during the tour which was an unbelievable vocal show off.  Maybe you have a point about that song, but I'll wait until the release to judge it.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Adami on July 16, 2019, 02:59:07 PM
I did point out that the major problem with his range seems to be from those cover songs. Were they playing The Show Must Go On and such at your shows? Cause they wrote the original material to be within his range.

No, he did the Queen tribute during the tour which was an unbelievable vocal show off.  Maybe you have a point about that song, but I'll wait until the release to judge it.

Yea. At no point do I consider anything in that clip to be awful or anything. But it just really emphasized his limitations, rather than his strengths. Overall, he sounds either good or okay/a bit weak. I'll probably still pick it up, depending on the one or two songs they're sure to release first.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Ben_Jamin on July 16, 2019, 03:21:55 PM
Hopefully its YouTube being Youtube, but JSS didn't sound like that at all at ProgPower.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Max Kuehnau on July 19, 2019, 06:46:05 AM
in case anyone is interested, this is Just Let Me Breathe: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3HdbG07nFfw
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Adami on July 19, 2019, 07:01:23 AM
in case anyone is interested, this is Just Let Me Breathe: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3HdbG07nFfw

Listening now.

Drums sound good as always. Guitars are extremely quiet. The scream into it was cool. JSS sounds good on this track, it's good for his range.

Ohhhhh Bumblebee is singing. He sounds good! I hope he does more of that on the 2nd album.

Keyboard guitar duel is mixed odd. Guitar suddenly became much louder and keyboard kinda vanished.

JSS is a really entertaining front man. Digging it. The band, overall, are really entertaining to watch.

Steven Tyler scream at the end was cool.

Over all, really cool and fun. I'm just a bit confused why they chose a DT cover as the first thing to release, but nothing about this release has really screamed Son of Apollo as much "Mike Portnoy and Friends having Fun."
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on July 19, 2019, 07:12:38 AM
I really really loved their performance of Just Let Me Breathe live, this is really cool to watch.  Bumblefoot's guitar sounds kind of muddy, but overall I enjoy the sound.

Ohhhhh Bumblebee is singing. He sounds good! I hope he does more of that on the 2nd album.

If you like his singing, he's the current singer of Asia now and he was a pretty good frontman for them when I saw them a month ago.  I had no idea he was a good singer, I remembered him singing a small amount with SOA but didn't think much of it.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: nobloodyname on July 19, 2019, 07:13:02 AM
in case anyone is interested, this is Just Let Me Breathe: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3HdbG07nFfw

That performance has completely sold me on buying the blu-ray. Wish I'd seen them live when I had the chance now.

Actually, I don't think I've ever enjoyed Just Let Me Breathe as much as I did just then.

cramx3, Ron Thal has a fabulous voice. Try listening to Little Brother is Watching.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bosk1 on July 19, 2019, 07:58:16 AM
That is pretty reflective of when I saw them.  Just a bunch of talented musicians having a good time.  Immensely entertaining. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: JayOctavarium on July 19, 2019, 09:18:46 AM
The mix sounds much better than that original preview snippet, but I do wish the guitar and bass were a little more prominent.

With that being said, I am very much looking forward to this now :JayOctavarium:
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: JayOctavarium on July 19, 2019, 09:19:58 AM

cramx3, Ron Thal has a fabulous voice. Try listening to Little Brother is Watching.

Little Brother Is Watching is a phenomenal album. It's in my regular rotation.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: EPICVIEW on July 19, 2019, 10:33:55 AM
That is pretty reflective of when I saw them.  Just a bunch of talented musicians having a good time.  Immensely entertaining.

agreed  ,,,, they have a good spirit
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: MinistroRaven on July 19, 2019, 12:36:44 PM
(https://i.ibb.co/3kjw0cy/mp.png) (https://ibb.co/CWYqnQ5)

Instagram blocked the video on MP's profile for copyright  :facepalm:
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bosk1 on July 19, 2019, 12:37:49 PM
:rollin  Technology.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on July 19, 2019, 12:40:27 PM
Tell him I want my youtube videos back too!!  :lol I wonder why this live album's so tight on their copyright infringement algorithm
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: MinistroRaven on July 20, 2019, 12:04:23 PM
(https://i.ibb.co/KWY3WVD/67201672-10156640983465679-8189248623280652288-n.jpg) (https://ibb.co/cQP7Q2w)

 :rollin
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Max Kuehnau on July 20, 2019, 01:33:27 PM
MP's reaction was to be expected, wasn't it. My father loves this version of Just Let Me Breathe btw. (seeing as he wasn't really familar with SOA, meaning he only knew that Mike and Derek are part of them)
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: PetFish on July 20, 2019, 07:35:27 PM
Great version and I really love what BF and BS are doing.  This would have been an automatic purchase for me to support DS and MP and the guys... and then DS went and opened his twatter trash.  I've stuck to my guns and not listened to SoA at all cuz of DS which, sadly, means I'm not supporting the other guys as well.

I used to think DS was a great guy, especially when he did the Reunited show, and then pfft.

I don't know jack-shit about BF but he sounds great.  Does he have anything else I should check out?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: KevShmev on July 20, 2019, 08:50:19 PM
Even though I consider Just Let Me Breathe a lower tier DT song, I checked out that new live version by this band.  Sherinian and Portnoy both killed it in a good way with their playing, but the guitar riffing didn't have enough oomph (not sure if it was because of his tone or the mix), and I was reminded again of why this band did little for me: the singer does absolutely nothing for me.  I don't dislike it, but it just strikes me as a generic rock voice with zero character at all; I do not connect to it at all.  Despite Sherinian's social media silliness prior to the first album release, I'd listen to this stuff if I liked it, but I just don't.  With a different and much better singer, perhaps I would.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Max Kuehnau on July 21, 2019, 06:01:19 AM
Even though I consider Just Let Me Breathe a lower tier DT song, I checked out that new live version by this band.  Sherinian and Portnoy both killed it in a good way with their playing, but the guitar riffing didn't have enough oomph (not sure if it was because of his tone or the mix), and I was reminded again of why this band did little for me: the singer does absolutely nothing for me.  I don't dislike it, but it just strikes me as a generic rock voice with zero character at all; I do not connect to it at all.  Despite Sherinian's social media silliness prior to the first album release, I'd listen to this stuff if I liked it, but I just don't.  With a different and much better singer, perhaps I would.
Derek's behaviour was also something I expected (even going back to when I watched the 5YIAL video as a child, I always thought he may be arrogant, as with MP). In case people love the band, ok, fine with me. I for one will always go back to Billy Sheehan's work with Steve Vai and DLR whenever I fancy listening to his playing.  The hype for SOA made me indifferent (I guess) towards them. "generic rock voice" is a good description too IMHO. I do think that MP is better suited for SOA than for DT, because him and Derek are similar in terms of personalities and as players too (visceral as opposed to cerebral if that makes sense, we saw that during the FII period too.)
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Architeuthis on July 21, 2019, 12:38:03 PM
I dunno guys,  I saw SOA in Seattle and Jeff was an amazing frontman and singer. He came across as a very cool guy that really has alot of fun performing. Jeff, Bumblefoot, and Billy Sheehan, really had a great chemistry and MP was flawless.
 I agree about Derek though. He walked by me after the show out near the merch area and I told him he did a great job and thanks for coming up here to play. He begrudgingly said thanks in a undertone and kept walking, didn't even look at me...lol!   
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on July 21, 2019, 02:11:01 PM
Oh I know about the Derek not even looking at you thing  :lol
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Stadler on July 22, 2019, 08:46:01 AM
I dunno guys,  I saw SOA in Seattle and Jeff was an amazing frontman and singer. He came across as a very cool guy that really has alot of fun performing. Jeff, Bumblefoot, and Billy Sheehan, really had a great chemistry and MP was flawless.
 I agree about Derek though. He walked by me after the show out near the merch area and I told him he did a great job and thanks for coming up here to play. He begrudgingly said thanks in a undertone and kept walking, didn't even look at me...lol!

You can be both, though.  He was like that in Worcester, MA as well.  Dynamic - not "Roth" or "Dickinson" dynamic, but dynamic - and he hit all the notes - the "Save Me" piece was very good, even if it was living proof of why Mercury is the greatest rock singer since 1970 - but on the record, with the songs, there's no separation.  He said he "wasn't going to sing in that high register", and that's what those songs needed.  EVERYTHING was competing in that mid-range frequency range.  Billy Sheehan, GREAT bass player, but he plays in that burpy, trebly style that competes in that space.  The keys and the guitars, in that space.  Then all the vocals are in that space as well.   
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on July 22, 2019, 10:25:48 AM
Yea, I had no JFF experience going into SOA and I was not impressed from the album.  All the yeas and the same style/sound of his vocals trhoughout the album just kind of turned me off.  He redeemed himself by bringing those songs alive with his stage presence and vocal abilities in person.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Setlist Scotty on July 22, 2019, 11:30:44 AM
Great version and I really love what BF and BS are doing.  This would have been an automatic purchase for me to support DS and MP and the guys... and then DS went and opened his twatter trash.  I've stuck to my guns and not listened to SoA at all cuz of DS which, sadly, means I'm not supporting the other guys as well.

I used to think DS was a great guy, especially when he did the Reunited show, and then pfft.

I don't know jack-shit about BF but he sounds great.  Does he have anything else I should check out?
Erik, you do what you gotta do, and I can appreciate the principle behind it, but honestly, I think you're cutting your nose off to spite your face. If you enjoy what the other 4 guys are doing, why not pick up the album? And as it is, even DS' trash talk has disappeared. I think it was more him trying to grab attention (negative or otherwise) in the same way that he presented himself while with DT in 97-98 with the clothes he wore, his stage decorations, etc. which were intentionally meant to get some uptight DT fans' panties in a bunch. I'm not trying to defend the man, but look at it for what it was. Anyway, your choice, meu amigo.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bosk1 on July 22, 2019, 11:42:22 AM
Scott, with all due respect, I think people being soured on Derek in recent years is far more than just "uptight DT fans' panties in a bunch."  He has behaved poorly, both publicly and in one-on-one fan encounters, the latter of which has been mentioned SEVERAL times by quite a few people, and is also consistent with what I witnessed in person.  While it might not be anywhere near as egregious as the things that Geoff Tate has done, I would think that you could understand fans finding it offputting since you have no problem seeing Tate's conduct in that light.  In any case, I know I can say that I personally DO find it extremely offputting.  I just haven't quite gotten to the point where I personally am boycotting the music.  But that is because (1) I really enjoy their musical output, and (2) I like the other members of the band, to varying degrees.  But that said, I completely understand some boycotting the music on principle.  I have been close at times.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Skeever on July 22, 2019, 11:55:30 AM
Prior to the Sons, I would have said that DT's approach to keyboards under Derek was one of my favorite eras of the band. I liked his songwriting, as well his more modern approach, and thought he had an edge and rockstar flamboyance that Rudess replaces with a less desirable (to me) mad scientist schtick.

After the Sons, I'm no longer yearning for Derek's return to DT. His ideas, the sounds he uses, the way he plays, hasn't evolved a lick since Falling into Infinity. His aversion to technology is misguided and backwards looking, and underscores just how far he is from the state of the art. His personality, frankly, sucks. The fun and flamboyant player is now a crotchety old man on a high horse.

Enough. If I am to be sold on the idea of a "super group" part of the deal is the personalities involved need be one of the attractions. The band are talented but what they have in chops they lack in personality, and it doesn't help to have MP and DS act like old men yelling at clouds. Make me excited about your music based on what you do well, not by encouraging negativity over what you think the other guys do poorly. Meanwhile Rudess delivered one of his best DT performances yet on D/T.

Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bosk1 on July 22, 2019, 12:01:13 PM
Other than the fact that I DO enjoy the music, I agree with pretty much everything in your post, Skeever.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: KevShmev on July 22, 2019, 12:09:23 PM
His personality aside, I don't see the issue with Sherinian sticking with his tried and true sounds, and while I never really checked out Planet X or his other post-DT stuff, many have said he progressed greatly in his playing since, so I am not sure that it is true that he hasn't evolved at all since FII.  And while I prefer Rudess overall, he can drive me nuts with his tones and solos at times, while hearing Sherinian play that Just Let Me Breathe solo again with that tone and wreckless abandon was pretty sweet.  I just wish I liked the singer more; I'd probably dig this band if I did.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Adami on July 22, 2019, 12:11:07 PM
I haven't  heard a ton of Sherinian's stuff, but I have heard some, and it is QUITE different than his DT playing.

So I wouldn't say he hasn't evolved, but maybe that he regressed for SOA.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Skeever on July 22, 2019, 12:36:11 PM
I haven't  heard a ton of Sherinian's stuff, but I have heard some, and it is QUITE different than his DT playing.

So I wouldn't say he hasn't evolved, but maybe that he regressed for SOA.

I guess it could be that! Both he and MP seem intent on doubling down on the past for SOA, when, if anything, "the past" during that era of DT was always about looking toward the future! I feel bad for JSS because he seems to be the one in the band who would be genuinely interested in spreading his wings a bit more. I heard a JSS solo song the other day, it it sounded exactly like it would pass for a SOA song.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Setlist Scotty on July 22, 2019, 02:18:02 PM
Scott, with all due respect, I think people being soured on Derek in recent years is far more than just "uptight DT fans' panties in a bunch."  He has behaved poorly, both publicly and in one-on-one fan encounters, the latter of which has been mentioned SEVERAL times by quite a few people, and is also consistent with what I witnessed in person.  While it might not be anywhere near as egregious as the things that Geoff Tate has done, I would think that you could understand fans finding it offputting since you have no problem seeing Tate's conduct in that light.  In any case, I know I can say that I personally DO find it extremely offputting.  I just haven't quite gotten to the point where I personally am boycotting the music.  But that is because (1) I really enjoy their musical output, and (2) I like the other members of the band, to varying degrees.  But that said, I completely understand some boycotting the music on principle.  I have been close at times.
I can understand what you're saying Bosk. But as you readily admitted, what DS has done is not at the same level as what Tater has. That's not to take away from what DS has done, which I am not condoning and found irritating as well. But the other big difference between DS and Tater is that no one knows or cares about anyone in Tater's backing band - the same is not the case for SoA, where the other 4 members are generally well regarded. So that's the point I'm making. If Erik chooses to stick with his boycott, then that's his choice and I won't fault him for that. But I just think it might be worth for him to rethink whether that principle is strong enough for him to avoid SoA or not.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ErHaO on July 22, 2019, 02:34:15 PM
I still don't like how the vocals are mixed in that new clip, but the performance is great!
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Architeuthis on July 22, 2019, 03:00:23 PM
Scott, with all due respect, I think people being soured on Derek in recent years is far more than just "uptight DT fans' panties in a bunch."  He has behaved poorly, both publicly and in one-on-one fan encounters, the latter of which has been mentioned SEVERAL times by quite a few people, and is also consistent with what I witnessed in person.  While it might not be anywhere near as egregious as the things that Geoff Tate has done, I would think that you could understand fans finding it offputting since you have no problem seeing Tate's conduct in that light.  In any case, I know I can say that I personally DO find it extremely offputting.  I just haven't quite gotten to the point where I personally am boycotting the music.  But that is because (1) I really enjoy their musical output, and (2) I like the other members of the band, to varying degrees.  But that said, I completely understand some boycotting the music on principle.  I have been close at times.
I can understand what you're saying Bosk. But as you readily admitted, what DS has done is not at the same level as what Tater has. That's not to take away from what DS has done, which I am not condoning and found irritating as well. But the other big difference between DS and Tater is that no one knows or cares about anyone in Tater's backing band - the same is not the case for SoA, where the other 4 members are generally well regarded. So that's the point I'm making. If Erik chooses to stick with his boycott, then that's his choice and I won't fault him for that. But I just think it might be worth for him to rethink whether that principle is strong enough for him to avoid SoA or not.
I wouldn't let one band member put me off if I like the other band members. Bumblefoot seems like a really upbeat guy with a big heart, same goes for JSS and Sheehan, and MP.  DS comes across as that hot-shot musician that is above the commoner fans. I don't know why some musicians get that way. 
I've seen it on a local level in my small home town, especially amongst blues guitarists. The hard rockers and metalheads are way more down to earth. Just an observation.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Stadler on July 22, 2019, 04:32:19 PM
Scott, with all due respect, I think people being soured on Derek in recent years is far more than just "uptight DT fans' panties in a bunch."  He has behaved poorly, both publicly and in one-on-one fan encounters, the latter of which has been mentioned SEVERAL times by quite a few people, and is also consistent with what I witnessed in person.  While it might not be anywhere near as egregious as the things that Geoff Tate has done, I would think that you could understand fans finding it offputting since you have no problem seeing Tate's conduct in that light.  In any case, I know I can say that I personally DO find it extremely offputting.  I just haven't quite gotten to the point where I personally am boycotting the music.  But that is because (1) I really enjoy their musical output, and (2) I like the other members of the band, to varying degrees.  But that said, I completely understand some boycotting the music on principle.  I have been close at times.
I can understand what you're saying Bosk. But as you readily admitted, what DS has done is not at the same level as what Tater has. That's not to take away from what DS has done, which I am not condoning and found irritating as well. But the other big difference between DS and Tater is that no one knows or cares about anyone in Tater's backing band - the same is not the case for SoA, where the other 4 members are generally well regarded. So that's the point I'm making. If Erik chooses to stick with his boycott, then that's his choice and I won't fault him for that. But I just think it might be worth for him to rethink whether that principle is strong enough for him to avoid SoA or not.
I wouldn't let one band member put me off if I like the other band members. Bumblefoot seems like a really upbeat guy with a big heart, same goes for JSS and Sheehan, and MP.  DS comes across as that hot-shot musician that is above the commoner fans. I don't know why some musicians get that way. 
I've seen it on a local level in my small home town, especially amongst blues guitarists. The hard rockers and metalheads are way more down to earth. Just an observation.

I can vouch for that latter observation.   My local dive actually has a pretty good reputation as a blues club (Jeff Healey, a couple others, have come up there after playing bigger gigs in Hartford to jam).  The drummers?  Almost ALWAYS will drink with you at the bar.   Most of the rock guys?  Drink with you at the bar.  The local blues guitar players?  Sit in a booth in the back room and make it clear that interlopers aren't really welcome. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: PMA on July 22, 2019, 04:53:12 PM
I've watched the video of Just Let Me Breathe.  I'll likely buy the Blu Ray to see the rest of the performance because I like seeing virtuoso playing and bands like this but I'm not that impressed with JSS's vocals and his stage presence in this video seems corny to me.  Didn't really care for Bumblefoot's vocals either.  Musically, it sounded great.  I hope that JSS sounds better on their material.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Peter Mc on July 22, 2019, 06:35:23 PM
Just Let Me Breathe is one of DT’s very worst songs imo so not sure why they even covered it in the first place let alone used it to sell the live dvd.

As for the guy boycotting SOA because he thinks DS is a bit of a dick, you’re not missing much. The album is ok but it’s nothing more than that, nothing that is remotely essential for you to hear. Dream Theater and Distance Over Time in particular are light years ahead of what these guys are doing in every respect imo. Don’t get me wrong, I quite enjoyed the album when it came out, it’s by no means terrible. I have not listened to it in a looong time however and don’t foresee that changing anytime soon. I’ll give the live release a miss but would probably be tempted by a second studio album if I heard some good stuff from it.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: gzarruk on July 22, 2019, 08:46:18 PM
but on the record, with the songs, there's no separation.  He said he "wasn't going to sing in that high register", and that's what those songs needed.  EVERYTHING was competing in that mid-range frequency range.  Billy Sheehan, GREAT bass player, but he plays in that burpy, trebly style that competes in that space.  The keys and the guitars, in that space.  Then all the vocals are in that space as well.

I agree. It's a problem when your band has a guitarist, a keyboardist who plays like a guitarist and a bassist who plays like a guitarist, they all try to play in the same frequency range (not Bumblefoot's fault) and that's why the album sounds muddy most of the time. And if, on top of that, you add a gerenic rock sounding guy who sings the whole album in the same style/range because he's told by the producers to do that... the results aren't going to be very good.

His ideas, the sounds he uses, the way he plays, hasn't evolved a lick since Falling into Infinity. His aversion to technology is misguided and backwards looking, and underscores just how far he is from the state of the art. His personality, frankly, sucks. The fun and flamboyant player is now a crotchety old man on a high horse.

Couldn't have said it better.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: goo-goo on July 22, 2019, 09:35:59 PM
I'm probably in the minority but I absolutely love Derek's keyboard sounds. His patches and sound is very original. Aside from his personality, he plays great. The stuff he did in Planet X was outstanding and there is where he shines on a technical aspect. His solo records are also very good. I absolutely enjoy his solo records a lot. They get me pumped on some of those riffs that he plays. I really don't care about the player's personalities. I care about the music. Yes, DS has a pompous personality but MP has had it's share as well. That hasn't stopped me from listening to the music they put out.

SoA was rushed and yes, Jeff's vocals killed the album for me. But the music itself its not that bad. I hope they (MP and DS) don't restrain JSS in the new record.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: PetFish on July 22, 2019, 11:01:23 PM
Erik, you do what you gotta do, and I can appreciate the principle behind it, but honestly, I think you're cutting your nose off to spite your face. If you enjoy what the other 4 guys are doing, why not pick up the album? And as it is, even DS' trash talk has disappeared. I think it was more him trying to grab attention (negative or otherwise) in the same way that he presented himself while with DT in 97-98 with the clothes he wore, his stage decorations, etc. which were intentionally meant to get some uptight DT fans' panties in a bunch. I'm not trying to defend the man, but look at it for what it was. Anyway, your choice, meu amigo.

Yeah, I'm not happy about it, and I struggled with what to do with SoA.  I don't enjoy feeling this way and I feel like his plan to get our panties in a bunch backfired and he should have owned up to it.  Attitude means a lot to me, not just the music, and there's a few other bands that I don't support due simply to their craptittudes (Oasis), no matter how good the actual music is, their attitudes, especially towards fans, is important.

Although in this case it *is* mostly DS acting the way he did, MP didn't help the situation at all by contributing to it (an also his general attitude since he left DT), so he's a part of the way I feel about SoA as well.  I'd say it's about 64/36 DS/MP.  Like I said, I used to really like DS, even if I wasn't a huge fan of his post-DT stuff, I still respected the guy.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: MirrorMask on July 23, 2019, 01:04:21 AM
Just Let Me Breathe is one of DT’s very worst songs imo so not sure why they even covered it in the first place let alone used it to sell the live dvd.

Well, it's not that they had that many albums with both Derek and Mike in the band to chose from - there's only one.

And then you have to narrow it down to songs MP wrote / helped arranging / wrote the lyrics for.

What else they were gonna play anyway? Burning My Soul? You Not Me, which MP hates because of the label's interference?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: gzarruk on July 23, 2019, 06:51:23 AM
Just Let Me Breathe is one of DT’s very worst songs imo so not sure why they even covered it in the first place let alone used it to sell the live dvd.

Well, it's not that they had that many albums with both Derek and Mike in the band to chose from - there's only one.

And then you have to narrow it down to songs MP wrote / helped arranging / wrote the lyrics for.

What else they were gonna play anyway? Burning My Soul? You Not Me, which MP hates because of the label's interference?

They played HK and LITS on that show, BMS was a no brainer, and they missed the opportunity to have it recorded instead of playing a bunch of lame classic rock covers.
And, while I agree on the fact that there’s no much MP/DS material from FII they *would* use, his point is also that it seems odd that they’d promote their upcoming live release (one of the best of MP’s career, according to him, of course) with a DT song and not one of their own, like Signs of the Time, for example. They’re basically promoting themselves as a cover band, whether they realize it or not.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: MirrorMask on July 23, 2019, 07:03:05 AM
Well, you could see it more as reminding the casual fan that the band is out there. Not everyone follows closely everything MP does, a random DT fan that sees this pop up in his YouTube feed and goes "ah, right, I forgot about these guys" will check out the song... say he likes it, hearing a DT song done good might propel his interest in catching up with the band and their album.

Then again I won't surely argue about the "Why don't they just release Signs of the Time since it's their own song"  thing.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Peter Mc on July 23, 2019, 07:11:48 AM
Just Let Me Breathe is one of DT’s very worst songs imo so not sure why they even covered it in the first place let alone used it to sell the live dvd.

Well, it's not that they had that many albums with both Derek and Mike in the band to chose from - there's only one.

And then you have to narrow it down to songs MP wrote / helped arranging / wrote the lyrics for.

What else they were gonna play anyway? Burning My Soul? You Not Me, which MP hates because of the label's interference?

Mike wrote every song on the album so not sure why they chose to cover one of the worst or used it as the promo song for the dvd. FII is a patchy record imo but New Millenium, Lines In The Sand, Hells Kitchen, Trial Of Tears and Peruvian Skies are all pretty stellar. I suspect Mike wanted this song as he wrote the lyrics for it but it’s not a great song at all.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: EPIC Outro on July 23, 2019, 07:36:04 AM

I feel Just Let Me Breath is really well suited to the style of music SOP perform. It seemed like a good fit, and DT hasn't played it in awhile. I dig it.

Can't wait for them to whip out the demo version of You Or Me next time around. :)
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on July 23, 2019, 07:43:44 AM
I feel Just Let Me Breath is really well suited to the style of music SOP perform. It seemed like a good fit, and DT hasn't played it in awhile. I dig it.

Bingo, the song fits the band very well and they executed very well.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: KevShmev on July 23, 2019, 09:38:11 AM


Mike co-wrote every song on the album so not sure why they chose to cover one of the worst or used it as the promo song for the dvd. FII is a patchy record imo but New Millenium, Lines In The Sand, Hells Kitchen, Trial Of Tears and Peruvian Skies are all pretty stellar. I suspect Mike wanted this song as he wrote the lyrics for it but it’s not a great song at all.

FTFY, because John Petrucci, James LaBrie, James Myung and Derek Sherinian all wrote every song on FII as well (per the credits).
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Peter Mc on July 23, 2019, 10:07:42 AM
Yes, I’m aware of that obviously as I’m sure everyone is but the post I was responding to indicated that SOA could only pick from songs he was involved in either as a writer, arranger or lyric writer. Was just pointing out that he was involved as a writer on every song.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Lethean on July 23, 2019, 10:26:29 AM
Erik, you do what you gotta do, and I can appreciate the principle behind it, but honestly, I think you're cutting your nose off to spite your face. If you enjoy what the other 4 guys are doing, why not pick up the album? And as it is, even DS' trash talk has disappeared. I think it was more him trying to grab attention (negative or otherwise) in the same way that he presented himself while with DT in 97-98 with the clothes he wore, his stage decorations, etc. which were intentionally meant to get some uptight DT fans' panties in a bunch. I'm not trying to defend the man, but look at it for what it was. Anyway, your choice, meu amigo.

Yeah, I'm not happy about it, and I struggled with what to do with SoA.  I don't enjoy feeling this way and I feel like his plan to get our panties in a bunch backfired and he should have owned up to it.  Attitude means a lot to me, not just the music, and there's a few other bands that I don't support due simply to their craptittudes (Oasis), no matter how good the actual music is, their attitudes, especially towards fans, is important.

Although in this case it *is* mostly DS acting the way he did, MP didn't help the situation at all by contributing to it (an also his general attitude since he left DT), so he's a part of the way I feel about SoA as well.  I'd say it's about 64/36 DS/MP.  Like I said, I used to really like DS, even if I wasn't a huge fan of his post-DT stuff, I still respected the guy.

As far as I'm concerned, it doesn't matter if he was acting like a jerk because he really believes the crap he was saying, or if it's because he was trying to create controversy just to get attention and more album sales.  Either way it's still lame.  Fortunately for me, I don't like the album anyway so it's simple to "boycott."  However - without all that, I would have supported them anyway, even though I didn't like the album, just to support MP.  DS (and MP too) turned me off from wanting to support them at all.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Ben_Jamin on July 23, 2019, 11:18:54 AM
Well, you could see it more as reminding the casual fan that the band is out there. Not everyone follows closely everything MP does, a random DT fan that sees this pop up in his YouTube feed and goes "ah, right, I forgot about these guys" will check out the song... say he likes it, hearing a DT song done good might propel his interest in catching up with the band and their album.

Then again I won't surely argue about the "Why don't they just release Signs of the Time since it's their own song"  thing.

At the same time though, its kind of sad when casual fans have to be reminded. I enjoyed when they played it at ProgPower, it had that energy that song needs. It's just, If you really have faith in your band, you wouldn't need to release a cover promo, you'd release your own song. Unless, they're trying to get the attention of casual DT fans.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Evermind on July 23, 2019, 11:37:46 AM
Yeah, I'm still in the "0. Their online behaviour ruined it (won't listen)" department. Haven't heard the album and I don't intend to check out the live release.

If there is no shit stirring from the band members during their second release cycle, I may check it out. Bumblefoot and JSS seem like good sport.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: efx on July 23, 2019, 11:39:59 AM
The Chris Cornell change to the lyrics really bug me. Like a lot. In the past I thought the original wasn't that great either but this one really irritates me.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Ben_Jamin on July 23, 2019, 11:44:47 AM
Bumblefoot and JSS seem like good sport.

They're the reason I enjoyed them live.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on July 23, 2019, 11:51:46 AM
The Chris Cornell change to the lyrics really bug me. Like a lot. In the past I thought the original wasn't that great either but this one really irritates me.

Why?  I thought it felt relevant, but I'll also agree the original lyrics here were never that great.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Madman Shepherd on July 23, 2019, 12:08:34 PM
The Chris Cornell change to the lyrics really bug me. Like a lot. In the past I thought the original wasn't that great either but this one really irritates me.

Why?  I thought it felt relevant, but I'll also agree the original lyrics here were never that great.

I believe this was discussed earlier in the thread but it bothers me because the original lyrics were sort of flippant, like "hey you killed yourself, now you're a household name and MTV can milk this, way to go!" To now use chris cornell's name seems to be somewhat sardonic, even though mike has said he likes chris Cornell. Overall it seems disrespectful. Regardless, the lyrics were some of the poorest in DTs catalogue to begin with and JLMB I consider probably the worst dt song.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: efx on July 23, 2019, 12:12:54 PM
The Chris Cornell change to the lyrics really bug me. Like a lot. In the past I thought the original wasn't that great either but this one really irritates me.

Why?  I thought it felt relevant, but I'll also agree the original lyrics here were never that great.

I believe this was discussed earlier in the thread but it bothers me because the original lyrics were sort of flippant, like "hey you killed yourself, now you're a household name and MTV can milk this, way to go!" To now use chris cornell's name seems to be somewhat sardonic, even though mike has said he likes chris Cornell. Overall it seems disrespectful. Regardless, the lyrics were some of the poorest in DTs catalogue to begin with and JLMB I consider probably the worst dt song.

That is basically it as far as I see it. In the context of the original lyrics and the stance DT had as a band back then Hoon and Cobain felt thrown under the bus whereas I felt their deaths were much too tragic to be associated in that way. And especially with Chris Cornell it's as you say a bit too flippant in the context of the lyrics, regardless if MP likes him or not.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Grappler on July 23, 2019, 12:17:14 PM
I like that video's sound/mix much more than the trailer.  The album is enjoyable and I still listen to it fairly regularly, so I'll probably buy this Blu-ray set, since I didn't see them live. 

Anyone still abstaining from listening to this album is doing themselves a disservice.  It really is a pretty good record, despite whatever personality issues you may have with the musicians involved.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: MinistroRaven on July 23, 2019, 01:58:28 PM
I am listenign to the album now, and while there's seems to be an improvement, I still find some troubles on the mix of the album.
And on the entire song (the show must go on) I hear JSS struggling with his voice.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Max Kuehnau on July 23, 2019, 02:45:17 PM
I am listenign to the album now, and while there's seems to be an improvement, I still find some troubles on the mix of the album.
And on the entire song (the show must go on) I hear JSS struggling with his voice.
it's a Queen piece, who wouldn't struggle to sing it? (apart from James on a good day or whomever)
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: RodrigoAltaf on July 23, 2019, 05:24:26 PM
Got the album now...it's fucking awesome!!!!!!
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: MinistroRaven on July 23, 2019, 06:18:48 PM
I am listenign to the album now, and while there's seems to be an improvement, I still find some troubles on the mix of the album.
And on the entire song (the show must go on) I hear JSS struggling with his voice.
it's a Queen piece, who wouldn't struggle to sing it? (apart from James on a good day or whomever)
He is not struggling because of the song, his voice is struggling most of the concert (no matter the song)
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: The Walrus on July 23, 2019, 06:31:50 PM
So you're saying he's Jeff Scott Soso?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Ben_Jamin on July 23, 2019, 06:39:08 PM
I am listenign to the album now, and while there's seems to be an improvement, I still find some troubles on the mix of the album.
And on the entire song (the show must go on) I hear JSS struggling with his voice.
it's a Queen piece, who wouldn't struggle to sing it? (apart from James on a good day or whomever)
He is not struggling because of the song, his voice is struggling most of the concert (no matter the song)

Well you only specified one song, so it looks like you're only talking about that one song.

I'm really only going to hear their songs. Especially Labyrinth with the orchestra. That's the only song I really enjoy from the album.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: gzarruk on July 23, 2019, 07:11:46 PM
I am listenign to the album now, and while there's seems to be an improvement, I still find some troubles on the mix of the album.
And on the entire song (the show must go on) I hear JSS struggling with his voice.
it's a Queen piece, who wouldn't struggle to sing it? (apart from James on a good day or whomever)
He is not struggling because of the song, his voice is struggling most of the concert (no matter the song)

I haven’t heard the live album, but we all know Soto doesn’t have the range to pull that off (not saying that’s bad, just that they should’ve chosen their covers more in line with their singer’s range).
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: MinistroRaven on July 23, 2019, 08:07:48 PM
I am listenign to the album now, and while there's seems to be an improvement, I still find some troubles on the mix of the album.
And on the entire song (the show must go on) I hear JSS struggling with his voice.
it's a Queen piece, who wouldn't struggle to sing it? (apart from James on a good day or whomever)
He is not struggling because of the song, his voice is struggling most of the concert (no matter the song)

Well you only specified one song, so it looks like you're only talking about that one song.

I'm really only going to hear their songs. Especially Labyrinth with the orchestra. That's the only song I really enjoy from the album.

Yes, you are correct. My bad.

Sadly, to my ears, the struggling it's present on most of the record
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Stadler on July 23, 2019, 08:30:51 PM
So you're saying he's Jeff Scott Soso?

You should be arrested for that. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Cool Chris on July 23, 2019, 08:53:17 PM
Not following SoA at all but this thread amuses me. All that video did was remind me how awful that song is. I don't know JSS at all so cannot comment on his performance on this. But I can't imagine anyone making this song good.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: PetFish on July 24, 2019, 12:39:38 AM
As far as I'm concerned, it doesn't matter if he was acting like a jerk because he really believes the crap he was saying, or if it's because he was trying to create controversy just to get attention and more album sales.  Either way it's still lame.  Fortunately for me, I don't like the album anyway so it's simple to "boycott."  However - without all that, I would have supported them anyway, even though I didn't like the album, just to support MP.  DS (and MP too) turned me off from wanting to support them at all.

 :tup  :tup  :tup  :tup  :tup

I used to just buy MP's stuff to support him, even though I didn't care for whatever it was sometimes, and same with DS.  What sucks most for me is that I'm not supporting the other guys due to their garbage so it doesn't just affect them, it affects others.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: MinistroRaven on July 24, 2019, 07:07:15 AM
A friend who also received a promo copy share his thoughts quickly about the live recording:

“KASHMIR - There was only on Robert Plant.

GATES OF BABYLON - Lacks balls and JSS's voice is straining.

DREAM ON - Decent rendition, again JSS's voice is not at its best

DIARY OF A MADMAN - Decent, the "Ah, ah" at the end is cringeworthy

COMFORTABLY NUMB - My respect to Ron Thal as a guitar player, but the fast picking in the solo is ABSOLUTELY unnecessary. That is NOT something you do for this song. This song is all about feeling, not about showing off. Fortunately the fast section is not that long.

SHOW MUST GO ON - Best of them all, JSS far from his best and the mix (and this affects all of them is weird). JSS is too up-front, the band's sound is a little subdued and "restrained" which should have been the opposite considering there was a symphonic orchestra as well

AND THE CRADLE WILL ROCK - JSS sings the best in this one, but the mix is equally awful, the sound of the band playing in a second plane”

I guess he is more articulated than me, but si do agree with him about this.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on July 24, 2019, 07:12:11 AM
And what about their original songs?  Maybe I'm a minority, but I consider the covers just a bonus here.  I hope the reason I'd watch this more than once was to watch the original songs live.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Stadler on July 24, 2019, 07:13:11 AM
I know in Worcester, "...Cradle..." was fun but it was sort of... not out of place, but it was a different vibe from the rest of the show.   Not better or worse, but just different. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on July 24, 2019, 07:15:30 AM
Honestly, wasn't crazy about Cradle live either.  I love VH and I think there are way better VH songs that they could have done instead.  But what made that song fun when I saw them was that JSS sung it from the crowd, right near me.  That was so cool.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: MinistroRaven on July 24, 2019, 07:54:29 AM
And what about their original songs? Maybe I'm a minority, but I consider the covers just a bonus here.  I hope the reason I'd watch this more than once was to watch the original songs live.

The mix is the same, JSS it's too upfront (with his voice not as normal, seems sick to me) with the band drwoning in the back. But they do their own songs better than the covers which is to be expected I guess
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Stadler on July 24, 2019, 08:27:42 AM
Honestly, wasn't crazy about Cradle live either.  I love VH and I think there are way better VH songs that they could have done instead.  But what made that song fun when I saw them was that JSS sung it from the crowd, right near me.  That was so cool.

Yeah, he did the circuit of my venue; there were stairs up to the back (where there was a bar) and he went up, did a shot and made his way back.  Fun, but I would've rather seen a song that played to the band's strengths, like "In A Simple Rhyme".   
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Madman Shepherd on July 24, 2019, 12:21:36 PM
A friend who also received a promo copy share his thoughts quickly about the live recording:

“KASHMIR - There was only on Robert Plant.

GATES OF BABYLON - Lacks balls and JSS's voice is straining.

DREAM ON - Decent rendition, again JSS's voice is not at its best

DIARY OF A MADMAN - Decent, the "Ah, ah" at the end is cringeworthy

COMFORTABLY NUMB - My respect to Ron Thal as a guitar player, but the fast picking in the solo is ABSOLUTELY unnecessary. That is NOT something you do for this song. This song is all about feeling, not about showing off. Fortunately the fast section is not that long.

SHOW MUST GO ON - Best of them all, JSS far from his best and the mix (and this affects all of them is weird). JSS is too up-front, the band's sound is a little subdued and "restrained" which should have been the opposite considering there was a symphonic orchestra as well

AND THE CRADLE WILL ROCK - JSS sings the best in this one, but the mix is equally awful, the sound of the band playing in a second plane”

I guess he is more articulated than me, but si do agree with him about this.

Ick. This is making me rethink my preorder. Also kind of lame that they're covering some songs that mike portnoy already covered with dream theater. Weird actually.

So here's a thought about JSS. I really came around to the guy. He seems cool as hell and his enthusiasm was infectious (minus his weird stage moves) but it's kind of sad that we didnt get to hear him in this band in his prime. With JLB, he has his off nights but we have several studio albums and live performances where he was out of this world. Now that he's in his 50s and holds back more, we at least have a ton of history to fall back on. JSS doesn't have that other than other bands which I dont really care to search up. JLB doesn't sound like 20 year old JLB and that's fine because we've gotten to know his voice over the last few decades. We'll never know what 20 year old JSS would sound like in SoA to the detriment of any legacy they may be trying to build.

Really puts MP's critisicms of JLB in perspective. While I did dig a lot of SoA, saw them live, preordered their next one, and went back on my stand of boycotting them, it just seems like they were unleashed to the world with a bit of a thud. 

As it stands, I think the band will always be just a fun side project, despite their efforts.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on July 24, 2019, 12:28:58 PM
As it stands, I think the band will always be just a fun side project, despite their efforts.

I agree, but I think it has a bit to do with what you alluded to before, they are too old.  In a niche genre.  It's just not music that's terribly relevant in today's scene so I don't think this band will ever make it bigger than being just their side gig either.  That's OK though as long as the music is good.  There aren't many prog metal bands making it big these days even the younger ones who are pushing the limits of the genre.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: MinistroRaven on July 24, 2019, 01:01:13 PM
I listen my music at home and most of the times my kids are in the house, (I use a lot of foul language ON MY HEAD, meaning that my kids has never hearing me said a bad word) My oldest son (7 years old) likes a lot of the music I listen to, TA, NM, FC, DT you name it, but with this record (live recording) I am having problems listening to it out loud because of the mother fucker, fuking, fucker and so on that JSS used on this. ( I counted 4 or 5 before the ending of song 12) I had to turn it off. And it is sad, because my son loves SOA and in his own words he wants to get to play like his "uncle" Portnoy.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on July 24, 2019, 01:08:55 PM
Yea, JSS probably should have cut it back for the live recording for that reason.  I don't mind it live because there's something about the energy in a room and saying fuck yea kind of goes with that at times, but I can already see how it may be excessive to some in the live environment, but on CD yea maybe you should just hold back or edit them out.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: MoraWintersoul on July 24, 2019, 03:09:05 PM
I know you're both just complaining about something that bothers you, and not prescribing what is acceptable behavior, but I think being safe for work and 7-year-olds shouldn't be asked of any rock frontman. I listen to some vanilla-ass bands that don't even touch sex or drugs, but they too drop F-bombs when they perform, because that's just the way it is. "Fuck" has gone the way of "hell" and "shit", it's just a modifier at this point  :lol Most of these guys are fathers, I'm sure there were some judgment calls about whether or not their kids are old enough to hear some of their music and see some of their videos, but they either just had a talk about bad words or waited until their kids were a little older.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: MinistroRaven on July 24, 2019, 03:29:04 PM
Another friend who I know has a promo copy of the album (he writes for a different outlet than we do) wrote this about the album:

"Some thoughts on SOA Live after a quick listen:
- overall I think it’s a decent mix. Maybe there’s ways to make it better, but I grew up on Yessongs so I’m not picky with live recordings
- that said, I think it would have been better to not have the guitar panned left so much (keys are on the right) because this often leads to Bumblefoot sounding too low in the mix; esp. during solo’s he should be prominent in both channels. The only time it worked for me was when they’re shredding at the same time, like in the middle of Just Let Me Breathe, that’s awesome.
- on the SOA material, the band sounds mighty. I like the mix just fine, aside from the gtr/keys panning. JSS’ vocals could even be more prominent in the mix on the SOA songs (not necessarily more volume, but some added effects which would spread him more evenly in both channels), his voice is overwhelmed during the pummeling songs
- covers sound great to me, Kashmir is majestic as it should be and the symphony sounds great. Same with Dream On. Comfortably Numb is fantastic, and I like that Mike sang the Waters part, he nailed it. There’s no guitar player I’d rather hear than Gilmour (I’m not as much into shredders), but I was fine with Bumblefoot’s playing - he played the proper solo note for note (probably at Mike’s insistence) but then it’s totally fine for him to pyro the end of the solo to make it his own. Again, his guitar should have not been panned to the left so much.
- maybe JSS has better vocal nights than this, but I get the sense that this is where his voice usually is. Any criticism of him here I think is more a factor that you just want another singer for the band with other natural abilities than JSS has. Overall I thought he did great on the covers. He has the ability to capture the nuances of Freddie even though his tone might be different, and he did that for other singers, too."

As someone once said: to each its own.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Orbert on July 24, 2019, 03:46:33 PM
Interesting that he grew up on Yessongs (as did I) yet has so much issue with the hard panning.  In the 70's, everyone panned hard.  If you have two guitars, one's on the left and one's on the right.  If you have keyboards, they're on one side and guitar's on the other.

But I get that for solos, you generally give them "center stage" so a raging solo totally over on one side would be kinda weird.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ytserush on July 24, 2019, 05:21:33 PM
So you're saying he's Jeff Scott Soso?

He'a always been that for me. Just not my style.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ytserush on July 24, 2019, 05:30:13 PM
As far as I'm concerned, it doesn't matter if he was acting like a jerk because he really believes the crap he was saying, or if it's because he was trying to create controversy just to get attention and more album sales.  Either way it's still lame.  Fortunately for me, I don't like the album anyway so it's simple to "boycott."  However - without all that, I would have supported them anyway, even though I didn't like the album, just to support MP.  DS (and MP too) turned me off from wanting to support them at all.

 :tup  :tup  :tup  :tup  :tup

I used to just buy MP's stuff to support him, even though I didn't care for whatever it was sometimes, and same with DS.  What sucks most for me is that I'm not supporting the other guys due to their garbage so it doesn't just affect them, it affects others.

My point of view has always been if I know I'm going to like it, I'll get it. This was the first album that I wasn't so sure. Still not. Live album has to be better though, right?  I flat out love Derek's fusion period. The rock stuff? Not so much.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ytserush on July 24, 2019, 05:32:52 PM
And what about their original songs?  Maybe I'm a minority, but I consider the covers just a bonus here.  I hope the reason I'd watch this more than once was to watch the original songs live.

The covers aren't the reason to get this I would think. Thought it was odd that the trailer mostly featured them instead of the original songs.  Not sure why that decision was made.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ytserush on July 24, 2019, 05:37:55 PM
Interesting that he grew up on Yessongs (as did I) yet has so much issue with the hard panning.  In the 70's, everyone panned hard.  If you have two guitars, one's on the left and one's on the right.  If you have keyboards, they're on one side and guitar's on the other.

But I get that for solos, you generally give them "center stage" so a raging solo totally over on one side would be kinda weird.

And Yessongs is VERY low bar to compare sonics and mix with. Maybe I need to rethink the CD/DVD and just settle on one or the other.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Madman Shepherd on July 24, 2019, 06:38:23 PM


"Comfortably Numb is fantastic, and I like that Mike sang the Waters part"


Oh God no.


Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: SystematicThought on July 24, 2019, 06:53:05 PM


"Comfortably Numb is fantastic, and I like that Mike sang the Waters part"


Oh God no.
:lol

That was my first reaction as well
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: KevShmev on July 24, 2019, 06:58:40 PM
I listen my music at home and most of the times my kids are in the house, (I use a lot of foul language ON MY HEAD, meaning that my kids has never hearing me said a bad word) My oldest son (7 years old) likes a lot of the music I listen to, TA, NM, FC, DT you name it, but with this record (live recording) I am having problems listening to it out loud because of the mother fucker, fuking, fucker and so on that JSS used on this. ( I counted 4 or 5 before the ending of song 12) I had to turn it off. And it is sad, because my son loves SOA and in his own words he wants to get to play like his "uncle" Portnoy.

That reminds me of the first Yellow Matter Custard DVD.  My parents, who are huge longtime Beatles fans, would have gotten a huge thrill out of watching it, but they don't want to hear all kinds of language, and Portnoy drops f-bombs left and right when talking in between songs, so I never even bothered to play it for them.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: MoraWintersoul on July 25, 2019, 02:40:32 AM
maybe JSS has better vocal nights than this, but I get the sense that this is where his voice usually is. Any criticism of him here I think is more a factor that you just want another singer for the band with other natural abilities than JSS has. Overall I thought he did great on the covers. He has the ability to capture the nuances of Freddie even though his tone might be different, and he did that for other singers, too.
This is how I always feel about JSS. Yeah, he has a "regular" rock voice, but as far as I'm concerned, it's an exceptionally good rock voice. He has incredible singing knowledge and experience, you just feel the man lives to sing and be in a rock band. But MP's already worked with James and Russell and other incredibly loved singers on this forum, and no one can live up to that.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Skeever on July 25, 2019, 06:23:21 AM
I know you're both just complaining about something that bothers you, and not prescribing what is acceptable behavior, but I think being safe for work and 7-year-olds shouldn't be asked of any rock frontman. I listen to some vanilla-ass bands that don't even touch sex or drugs, but they too drop F-bombs when they perform, because that's just the way it is. "Fuck" has gone the way of "hell" and "shit", it's just a modifier at this point  :lol Most of these guys are fathers, I'm sure there were some judgment calls about whether or not their kids are old enough to hear some of their music and see some of their videos, but they either just had a talk about bad words or waited until their kids were a little older.

I suppose you're right, but I always expected a level of artistry and intelligence from progressive bands, and while I have nothing against those words, when I hear a singer acting like that on stage it just reminds me that these sorts of bands are more like their peers than they are those would would try surpass them to elevate the artform.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bosk1 on July 25, 2019, 07:55:39 AM
I know you're both just complaining about something that bothers you, and not prescribing what is acceptable behavior, but I think being safe for work and 7-year-olds shouldn't be asked of any rock frontman. I listen to some vanilla-ass bands that don't even touch sex or drugs, but they too drop F-bombs when they perform, because that's just the way it is. "Fuck" has gone the way of "hell" and "shit", it's just a modifier at this point  :lol Most of these guys are fathers, I'm sure there were some judgment calls about whether or not their kids are old enough to hear some of their music and see some of their videos, but they either just had a talk about bad words or waited until their kids were a little older.

I suppose you're right, but I always expected a level of artistry and intelligence from progressive bands, and while I have nothing against those words, when I hear a singer acting like that on stage it just reminds me that these sorts of bands are more like their peers than they are those would would try surpass them to elevate the artform.
Exactly.  And if they cannot use language showing that they have matured past adolescence, it is a big turnoff.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: MinistroRaven on July 25, 2019, 09:24:10 AM
I know you're both just complaining about something that bothers you, and not prescribing what is acceptable behavior, but I think being safe for work and 7-year-olds shouldn't be asked of any rock frontman. I listen to some vanilla-ass bands that don't even touch sex or drugs, but they too drop F-bombs when they perform, because that's just the way it is. "Fuck" has gone the way of "hell" and "shit", it's just a modifier at this point  :lol Most of these guys are fathers, I'm sure there were some judgment calls about whether or not their kids are old enough to hear some of their music and see some of their videos, but they either just had a talk about bad words or waited until their kids were a little older.

spot on

I suppose you're right, but I always expected a level of artistry and intelligence from progressive bands, and while I have nothing against those words, when I hear a singer acting like that on stage it just reminds me that these sorts of bands are more like their peers than they are those would would try surpass them to elevate the artform.
Exactly.  And if they cannot use language showing that they have matured past adolescence, it is a big turnoff.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: The Walrus on July 25, 2019, 09:26:45 AM
Oh c'mon. I get being offended by foul language but acting as if prog bands are somehow on a higher artistic level than normal rock bands and therefore shouldn't swear is such an elitist mentality.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bosk1 on July 25, 2019, 09:30:08 AM
I get being offended by foul language

I can't speak for anyone else, but for me, I'm not "offended."  I do, however, lose respect for those who cannot restrain their tongues and use more mature language.

...but acting as if prog bands are somehow on a higher artistic level than normal rock bands and therefore shouldn't swear is such an elitist mentality.

Yes.

Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: The Walrus on July 25, 2019, 09:31:31 AM
I get being offended by foul language

I can't speak for anyone else, but for me, I'm not "offended."  I do, however, lose respect for those who cannot restrain their tongues and use more mature language.

...but acting as if prog bands are somehow on a higher artistic level than normal rock bands and therefore shouldn't swear is such an elitist mentality.

Yes.

I'm going to use Dave as an example here because Dave is one of the smartest people on this board. Do you lose respect for him when he drops an F bomb in an otherwise articulate, eloquent post in the P/R section? It is very possible to use crass language and write/speak in an intelligent manner. I just don't see the problem with a musician who's trying to entertain people acting loose on stage and dropping a big bad naughty word once in a while... like, it's their stage, their time to entertain, is 'fuck' really that big a deal? To be honest I find people who occasionally swear to be more forthright than those who go out of their way to avoid it, but I also come from the heartland where people really don't give a s&*% about offensive language mostly :lol
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on July 25, 2019, 09:42:57 AM
Do you lose respect for him when he drops an F bomb in an otherwise articulate, eloquent post in the P/R section?

Wasn't this similar conversation just being discussed in P/R  :lol

But for me, I don't care about the cursing and only commented that for a live release, maybe you cut back since your audience is much bigger than your crowd at the venue who will react differently to it.  Very similar to how I disliked all the "yea"s on the album but they work fine live.

On another note, cursing in our culture is just becoming more and more normal so it's kind of becoming less of a thing.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bosk1 on July 25, 2019, 10:21:16 AM
I'm going to use Dave as an example here because Dave is one of the smartest people on this board. Do you lose respect for him when he drops an F bomb in an otherwise articulate, eloquent post in the P/R section?

Yes.  But can I also look past that and evaluate the point he is actually making?  Sure.

It is very possible to use crass language and write/speak in an intelligent manner.

Correct.

I just don't see the problem with a musician who's trying to entertain people acting loose on stage and dropping a big bad naughty word once in a while... like, it's their stage, their time to entertain, is 'fuck' really that big a deal?

And that's fine.  We have different standards.  I am tolerant of yours.  But that doesn't mean I have to agree with it.  It isn't a "big deal" at all--again, we just have different standards for what we like.  But, to bring us back on topic, where it is in my entertainment, I will more often look for my entertainment elsewhere.  Thankfully, there are bountiful options in that regard.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Grappler on July 25, 2019, 10:21:30 AM
Do you lose respect for him when he drops an F bomb in an otherwise articulate, eloquent post in the P/R section?

Wasn't this similar conversation just being discussed in P/R  :lol

But for me, I don't care about the cursing and only commented that for a live release, maybe you cut back since your audience is much bigger than your crowd at the venue who will react differently to it.  Very similar to how I disliked all the "yea"s on the album but they work fine live.

On another note, cursing in our culture is just becoming more and more normal so it's kind of becoming less of a thing.

Yeah, but we have to be a bit more cognizant about it.  My daughter is 4 and will repeat anything she hears.  I've had to remember to not play certain cd's in the car with her because of the material, whether it's a lyric or curse word. 

I personally don't care - if a singer wants to swear all night, go ahead.  But now that I have young kids it becomes more of an issue to limit their exposure to the words. 

Joakim from Sabaton is the best.  When I saw them open for Iced Earth, he dropped an F-bomb and then immediately lectured the kid in the front row to never repeat the word.  Then he swore again as a joke.   :lol   The kid ended up getting his aviators later on and his dad was loving the experience.   
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Stadler on July 25, 2019, 10:26:38 AM
As someone who is prone to an f-bomb on occasion, I think the real issue is, pardon the pun, knowing your audience.   I know for me, watching "reality" TV where every other word is a bleeped F-bomb is a real turnoff, and I absolutely judge the person for their lack of self-control, because that's what it is.  A lack of self-control.  I know for me, I don't swear at work, and I have never once, ever, dropped an f-bomb in front of my mom, and only once or twice in front of my dad.

I note that I've seen Paul Stanley multiple times with makeup and without.  With makeup, his raps are very much in the "I wanna rock!" vein, with few swear words (on occasion, but rare).   Without makeup, in the 80's? His raps were x-rated and on some nights, even I was like "Paul, tone it the f*** down".   I think Paul knows/knew that his audience wasn't the same.  Now, there are a TON of kids at a Kiss show, and he acts more appropriately.

I also think there's a difference between "live" and "on DVD".  He could have very easily excised the f-words from THAT PERFORMANCE, and not been any less aggressive, authentic, or "rock and roll".  Phil Collins used to regularly drop f-bombs in Genesis shows (even changing the lyric to "Invisible Touch" to "f*** up your life") but for the several live DVDs?  I think there's one case where it slipped through.  Maybe two.   

For me, I don't care about the word, as much as what is the message it sends?   It seems to me, no matter what Derek said in the run up to the album, they want desperately to be Van Halen circa 1984 or Yngwie Malmsteen circa 1987 more than they want to be Yes circa 1974, or Dream Theater circa 1997.   
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: The Walrus on July 25, 2019, 10:48:30 AM
I'm going to use Dave as an example here because Dave is one of the smartest people on this board. Do you lose respect for him when he drops an F bomb in an otherwise articulate, eloquent post in the P/R section?

Yes.

Not ignoring the rest of your post, just so you know... but why? I guess I don't fully understand why someone would lose your respect just because they used a harsh word. What is it that immediately makes you lose respect? I hold respect for people in high regard, in other words, it takes more than that to tarnish the respect I have for someone, especially a musician I don't personally know. Can you elaborate? Not trying to be argumentative, I guess I'm just from a whole other world and don't see why a colorful word in and of itself is cause for loss of respect.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: MinistroRaven on July 25, 2019, 11:03:07 AM
Do you lose respect for him when he drops an F bomb in an otherwise articulate, eloquent post in the P/R section?

Wasn't this similar conversation just being discussed in P/R  :lol

But for me, I don't care about the cursing and only commented that for a live release, maybe you cut back since your audience is much bigger than your crowd at the venue who will react differently to it.  Very similar to how I disliked all the "yea"s on the album but they work fine live.

On another note, cursing in our culture is just becoming more and more normal so it's kind of becoming less of a thing.

Yeah, but we have to be a bit more cognizant about it.  My daughter is 4 and will repeat anything she hears.  I've had to remember to not play certain cd's in the car with her because of the material, whether it's a lyric or curse word. 

I personally don't care - if a singer wants to swear all night, go ahead.  But now that I have young kids it becomes more of an issue to limit their exposure to the words. 


Joakim from Sabaton is the best.  When I saw them open for Iced Earth, he dropped an F-bomb and then immediately lectured the kid in the front row to never repeat the word.  Then he swore again as a joke.   :lol   The kid ended up getting his aviators later on and his dad was loving the experience.

 :metal
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bosk1 on July 25, 2019, 11:19:29 AM
I'm going to use Dave as an example here because Dave is one of the smartest people on this board. Do you lose respect for him when he drops an F bomb in an otherwise articulate, eloquent post in the P/R section?

Yes.

Not ignoring the rest of your post, just so you know... but why? I guess I don't fully understand why someone would lose your respect just because they used a harsh word. What is it that immediately makes you lose respect? I hold respect for people in high regard, in other words, it takes more than that to tarnish the respect I have for someone, especially a musician I don't personally know. Can you elaborate? Not trying to be argumentative, I guess I'm just from a whole other world and don't see why a colorful word in and of itself is cause for loss of respect.

Good question, and a fair one.  Let me give that the thought it deserves and get back to you when I have a bit more time.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Peter Mc on July 25, 2019, 02:15:42 PM
Do you lose respect for him when he drops an F bomb in an otherwise articulate, eloquent post in the P/R section?

Wasn't this similar conversation just being discussed in P/R  :lol

But for me, I don't care about the cursing and only commented that for a live release, maybe you cut back since your audience is much bigger than your crowd at the venue who will react differently to it.  Very similar to how I disliked all the "yea"s on the album but they work fine live.

On another note, cursing in our culture is just becoming more and more normal so it's kind of becoming less of a thing.

Yeah, but we have to be a bit more cognizant about it.  My daughter is 4 and will repeat anything she hears.  I've had to remember to not play certain cd's in the car with her because of the material, whether it's a lyric or curse word. 

I personally don't care - if a singer wants to swear all night, go ahead.  But now that I have young kids it becomes more of an issue to limit their exposure to the words. 

Joakim from Sabaton is the best.  When I saw them open for Iced Earth, he dropped an F-bomb and then immediately lectured the kid in the front row to never repeat the word.  Then he swore again as a joke.   :lol   The kid ended up getting his aviators later on and his dad was loving the experience.

I totally understand that, as a parent, you may not wish your 4 year old to hear bad language. Like others have said though, bands can’t be expected to tailor their shows to 4 year olds. If you go to a metal show or a football (soccer) match, you’re likely going to hear bad language and it’s up to you, as a parent, to decide if you want to subject your kid to that. I think a live dvd should reflect the energy of the live experience, not necessarily be a case where you have to be on your best behaviour because you’ll be on the tv. As a parent, if it bothers you (I know some parents who have no issue with cursing in front of their kids) you can censor the bad words, not show the show to your kids at all or just explain that they shouldn’t use those words. We all hear swear words as we grow up but learn the time and place to use them. I would never swear in front of my parents for example but conversations with friends are peppered with f-bombs and even c-bombs are pretty commonplace these days. I’m not one of the worst for it in the group but it’s not remotely offensive to me either, they’re just a normal part of the conversation.

Where I agree with Bosk is that it is cringeworthy when bands, particularly old guys like a SOA type band swear to try and be cool. “Hey everyone, we’re not a bunch of boring old farts, we’re still cool and rebellious, listen we even use bad language” I’m not saying SOA are doing that, maybe JSS swears a lot generally and it’s just how he talks, I think MP probably does swear a lot in real life. Does seem a little out of place if he’s swearing profusely on Beatles cover albums though.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: DTA on July 25, 2019, 03:03:59 PM
I always remember the "nothing but fucking epics!" line from the TA Live In Europe DVD and cringed even back then as a teenager. But it doesn't bother me when James Hetfield does it in the Seattle '89 Metallica video.I can't explain it but it's just the way it is. I guess because Roine, Pete, and Neal always seem so positive and mild-mannered that I'm actually embarrassed for them.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: MinistroRaven on July 25, 2019, 04:19:46 PM
I am watching the whole concert now, and it seems to my not trained ears that the mix it's a bit different (in a good way).

Now, why do you mix the audio for the video differently than the one for the CD?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: PetFish on July 25, 2019, 10:01:20 PM
I can't speak for anyone else, but for me, I'm not "offended."  I do, however, lose respect for those who cannot restrain their tongues and use more mature language.

Yep.  There's no doubt about it, "fuck" is an awesome word and has so many uses, but that doesn't mean it's ok to just throw it around constantly.  You have to adjust your attitude based on factors such as who you're with and where you are.

For example, I speak/act one way with my family, another with my co-workers, and another with my friends.  If you notice past DT footage you'll notice how much JP and JR swear and I'm sure they were feeding off of MP.  Now that he's gone they rarely swear.  I think JL is the only one who still does but even so it's definitely not nearly as frequent as it used to be.

It's a pussy cop-out to say "well, that's how I talk and if you don't like it then it's *you're* problem, not mine" rather than understand the situation.  It's a lot easier to walk around with that attitude saying "fuck you" to everyone and then pulling the "that's just me" crap.  You don't just walk into a daycare and start dropping bombs and then hide behind the "that's just me" cliche.

My respect goes to the people who can recognize the different situations and act/speak appropriately.  I'm not offended by foul language itself, just in the manner in which it's being utilized.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Evermind on July 25, 2019, 10:29:43 PM
Case in point: some random guy sitting behind me on my commute train today was talking on his phone and every third or fourth word of his eloquent speech was an equivalent of "fuck" in our language, or a derivative from it.

Fuck you, random stranger.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Madman Shepherd on July 26, 2019, 02:13:02 AM
A band called Three Inches of Blood opened for King Diamond many years ago. Not a good fit for many reasons.  After the first song the vocalist yells, "Hey fuckers how ya doing?!?"

Older dude in front of me, old school, longish grey hair with receding hairline responds without skipping a beat, "Not good. You just called me a fucker."
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: SwedishGoose on July 26, 2019, 02:29:09 AM
A band called Three Inches of Blood opened for King Diamond many years ago. Not a good fit for many reasons.  After the first song the vocalist yells, "Hey fuckers how ya doing?!?"

Older dude in front of me, old school, longish grey hair with receding hairline responds without skipping a beat, "Not good. You just called me a fucker."

Ha.... yeah insulting your audience is not the best thing to do.

Saying things like: "Thanks for tonight, you were fucking amazing!", is ok in my book but keep the swearwords to a minimum. Calling your audience fuckers..... not acceptable
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: The Walrus on July 26, 2019, 07:10:38 AM
But in all seriousness, how fragile a person do you have to be to get upset at a frontman calling the audience "fuckers" in a lighthearted manner? "Hey fuckers, how ya doing?" is offensive? Nobody ever has malicious intent by saying that stuff unless it's at a heckler or someone causing trouble in the crowd. At a metal show of all things? I get why people don't use language around kids. I don't get why it's a big deal amongst grown adults at a rock/metal show. I imagine in the 80s anyone complaining about a bad word would be called, er, well, an even worse bad word, if you catch my drift.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Orbert on July 26, 2019, 07:42:44 AM
Sure, it's not meant seriously, the guy isn't literally calling his audience a bunch of fuckers, it's just an expression, etc.

But it still says something about them if the first thing they do is call the audience a bunch of fuckers.  Metal is a different attitude.  Harsh, heavy, all kinds of things that would offend your mom.  Cool, I get that.  But not everybody who enjoys the music is into the entire "scene", leather and studs, tattoos, piercings and other body art, lots of profanity and don't-give-a-shit attitude.  That doesn't offend me so much as it just annoys me.  I'm in it for the music, period.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: The Walrus on July 26, 2019, 07:47:46 AM
The prog crowd is so stiff.  :lol (I get it, I get it, trust me, I do. I'm just poking fun.)
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: MoraWintersoul on July 26, 2019, 08:13:13 AM
Joakim from Sabaton is the best.  When I saw them open for Iced Earth, he dropped an F-bomb and then immediately lectured the kid in the front row to never repeat the word.  Then he swore again as a joke.   :lol   The kid ended up getting his aviators later on and his dad was loving the experience.
It's super awesome that he did that, and it probably fills your heart with joy as parents to see that. I guess I just disagree other frontmen should be judged by that standard. I'm not saying I want all rock shows to be R-rated, but knocking a frontman for keeping the show PG13 even though he's being recorded isn't something I'll be interested in even if/when I have kids. There's tons of really educational documentaries I wouldn't watch around kids because they show disturbing things, but I don't feel sad that the creators didn't modify them and make them kid-friendly, even though it would have been useful. Wheel of Time is a great book to read after The Hobbit/LotR, but even its religious author didn't shy away from showing more adult topics, even though he knew kids love fantasy lit and parents would love to read it to them. Not to mention A Song of Ice and Fire: if I have kids, I'll put WoT on a taller shelf, but ASOIAF will have to be in a secret compartment or something  :lol

 I really wouldn't bring a kid to a Sabaton show. Yeah, their audience is a bunch of geeks and the content of their music is super interesting for kids, but still. It's a metal show. People mosh. People make out, with all the adjacent-body-part-squeezin'. People drink way too much alcohol. The dad made his choice and brought him to that show but he should have been prepared for things to go much differently. If you only want to show your kids clean language media, prepare to play pretty much zero live albums around them.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bosk1 on July 26, 2019, 08:32:04 AM
But in all seriousness, how fragile a person do you have to be to get upset...

Again, I don't think anyone is talking about being "upset."  I'm not sure why you make the leap to assume that anyone who doesn't like something is "offended" or "upset."  I like a lot of what Orbert said here:

[quote}But it still says something about them if the first thing they do is call the audience a bunch of fuckers. 



That doesn't offend me so much as it just annoys me. [/quote]

That's a lot of it.  And that goes toward answering the question you posed to me. 

Words have meaning.  And words have significance.  And that goes beyond the plain meaning of the words.  By our words, we can enter into a legally binding contract.  By our words, we can commit hate speech.  By our words, we can defame somebody.  By our words, we can build somebody up or we can tear somebody down.  And a lot of what we convey with our words, again, goes beyond the simple, plain meaning of the words.  Intended or not, our word choice can convey things about us. 

To me, most of the time (but a lot really depends on context), what someone who uses profanity is conveying about themselves is not positive.  It can suggest a number of things, but none are really constructive. 

But, again, I'm not "offended."  At the end of the day, those words haven't "hurt" me in any meaningful way.  Not in the slightest.  Words alone don't have that kind of power.  But they do have the power to hurt the speaker's reputation and others' perception of him/her.

Anyhow, that's my feeling on the matter.  Hope it was helpful, whether anyone agrees or not.  But we're getting far afield from SoA.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: The Walrus on July 26, 2019, 08:34:30 AM
And I disagree, damn it. ;)

I appreciate the response, bosk, thank you. For the record the reason I used the words "upset" or "offended" is because of some of the examples people have used about 'protecting' kids from the words in public or even at home from the TV, or how the guy mentioned earlier got upset because of the frontman calling the audience "fuckers." It wasn't intended as commentary on anybody here, specifically. This is fascinating to me because I grew up in a house where language was used since as far as back as I can remember, and the strong words in and of themselves don't bother me (but words that could be racist, sexist etc. do bother me). But yeah, getting a ways away from SoA now. Appreciate the discussion.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Stadler on July 26, 2019, 08:39:38 AM
I am watching the whole concert now, and it seems to my not trained ears that the mix it's a bit different (in a good way).

Now, why do you mix the audio for the video differently than the one for the CD?

I'm not a professional mixer (but I played one on TV once) but there are a couple reasons.   One, dynamic range; CD's aren't always played in the same way or in the same place as DVDs .   Two, the spatial mix of the CD.   Three, the spatial mix of the DVD (as I understand it, the 5.1 mixes often start with a different stereo mix).  Four, it may not actually be a different MIX exactly, but rather sound different based on the sound processing used (you can tell the difference between a Dolby processed sound signal and not). 

I've on several occasions now ripped the audio from my DVDs and put it on my music server, even though I have the audio already from the CD.   It often sounds different (I'm not always 1000% sure why, but see above). 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bosk1 on July 26, 2019, 08:42:12 AM
I will add one more thing though.  (always have to have the last word; I know, I know...  :lol)  Again, I'm more just sharing my personal mindset than wagging my finger at anyone.  I'm not for a moment saying people can't use whatever language they want.  With some very limited exceptions, I don't go around on this forum (or in real life) telling people they can't use profanity.  I am around people all the time who do.  Some are friends and family.  I take it in stride and look past it, and don't really look at it as my job or duty to tell anyone who isn't my child what words they can use.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Grappler on July 26, 2019, 08:53:04 AM
And I disagree, damn it. ;)

I appreciate the response, bosk, thank you. For the record the reason I used the words "upset" or "offended" is because of some of the examples people have used about 'protecting' kids from the words in public or even at home from the TV, or how the guy mentioned earlier got upset because of the frontman calling the audience "fuckers." It wasn't intended as commentary on anybody here, specifically. This is fascinating to me because I grew up in a house where language was used since as far as back as I can remember, and the strong words in and of themselves don't bother me (but words that could be racist, sexist etc. do bother me). But yeah, getting a ways away from SoA now. Appreciate the discussion.

The only thing I'm saying is that I'm more cognizant of the language I expose my kids to.  They're too young and could care less about metal music right now (it's "daddy's music" to them).  But if I were to sit down and watch a concert DVD with them at some point, I wouldn't want constant F-bombs being dropped.  I think a rock band can tone down language (that isn't lyrical content, but just between-song banter) at times without sacrificing their performance.  If you know you're recording a DVD for a very special performance, wouldn't you want to tone it down just a bit, rather than going full-bore vulgar? 

It's not off-putting to ME in the slightest.  I swear too much at home as it is, even in front of my kids when I know I shouldn't, but I do think when bands overuse it, it can get a little juvenile. 

I'm still looking forward to this release, since I never saw Sons of Apollo live, but if there is a ton of swearing, it's not something I'm going to put on in front of my kids.  That's all I mean by my post earlier. 

As to the dad who brought his kid to a metal show (Sabaton/Iced Earth), I think it's awesome and I can't wait to do that with mine.  I know what to expect and what they'd be exposed to, and I'd bring them to an appropriate show.  My point was that even bands who do swear on stage can make it light and in that instance, Joakim turned it into a big joke with a dad and his son and everyone in the room got a big laugh from it.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: The Walrus on July 26, 2019, 08:58:42 AM
Oh, I'm sorry Grappler - I certainly hope you didn't read that as me judging you or anything. It's all good, brudda.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bosk1 on July 26, 2019, 09:12:47 AM
Yeah, it's all good.  He's only judging me, not you.  :lol
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: The Walrus on July 26, 2019, 09:16:27 AM
You know me so well.  :lol :hug:
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Grappler on July 26, 2019, 09:17:12 AM
 :lol

No worries - a few people quoted my post and I just wanted to say that I'm not personally bothered by bands swearing, but I do have to be more aware of it based on family reasons.  And like it or not, bands are certainly public figures and sometimes even role models in a way.  Yes, rock and metal is loud, rude and brash - but again, if you're recording this very special DVD, why wouldn't you want to just keep things a touch cleaner for posterity's sake? 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: The Walrus on July 26, 2019, 09:22:51 AM
You say that, but, I mean, MP's own website had "Tweet My Ass & Balls" front and center at the top of his own website for years. I don't think they're the kind of people to spend even a fraction of this much thought on the subject. Unless maybe Billy Sheehan got some information from Xenu about swearing. IDK. :lol
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Skeever on July 26, 2019, 09:26:09 AM
Oh c'mon. I get being offended by foul language but acting as if prog bands are somehow on a higher artistic level than normal rock bands and therefore shouldn't swear is such an elitist mentality.

Maybe it's just different tastes, but I'm not at all interested in any type of prog music that doesn't try to attain that higher artistic level. That's the problem with the Sons, they don't try, they're happy in the gutter. If I want to let lose, there are a lot of bands that will help me with that more than the Sons.

Also, imagine Jon Anderson singing "hands up you fahkers!" during an audience applause after Close to the Edge  :lol

Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Madman Shepherd on July 26, 2019, 09:27:21 AM
A band called Three Inches of Blood opened for King Diamond many years ago. Not a good fit for many reasons.  After the first song the vocalist yells, "Hey fuckers how ya doing?!?"

Older dude in front of me, old school, longish grey hair with receding hairline responds without skipping a beat, "Not good. You just called me a fucker."

Ha.... yeah insulting your audience is not the best thing to do.

Saying things like: "Thanks for tonight, you were fucking amazing!", is ok in my book but keep the swearwords to a minimum. Calling your audience fuckers..... not acceptable

You must really hate Ozzy then!  :lol

I dont mind when bands cuss but it can at times be annoying. That was one of them. We're not a bunch of frat dudes hanging out, and also the guy was playing to an audience of king diamond fans. He's not our buddy and the crowd didn't particularly care for the band.

Also for the record, bands typically CAN hear you when they claim they can't. They're just being facetious.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Stadler on July 26, 2019, 09:32:46 AM
Oh c'mon. I get being offended by foul language but acting as if prog bands are somehow on a higher artistic level than normal rock bands and therefore shouldn't swear is such an elitist mentality.

Maybe it's just different tastes, but I'm not at all interested in any type of prog music that doesn't try to attain that higher artistic level. That's the problem with the Sons, they don't try, they're happy in the gutter. If I want to let lose, there are a lot of bands that will help me with that more than the Sons.

Also, imagine Jon Anderson singing "hands up you fahkers!" during an audience applause after Close to the Edge  :lol

No, but I understand last tour Steve Howe threw a bucket of confetti on the first couple rows while screaming "Let me see your fucking hands!" and clapping like he was still learning how. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Skeever on July 26, 2019, 09:51:49 AM
 :lol :lol :lol
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Ben_Jamin on July 26, 2019, 11:10:56 AM
But in all seriousness, how fragile a person do you have to be to get upset at a frontman calling the audience "fuckers" in a lighthearted manner? "Hey fuckers, how ya doing?" is offensive? Nobody ever has malicious intent by saying that stuff unless it's at a heckler or someone causing trouble in the crowd. At a metal show of all things? I get why people don't use language around kids. I don't get why it's a big deal amongst grown adults at a rock/metal show. I imagine in the 80s anyone complaining about a bad word would be called, er, well, an even worse bad word, if you catch my drift.

Remember adults/parents are taking kids to places/events that Adults 30 years ago would never have taken their kids to.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: MinistroRaven on July 26, 2019, 11:42:34 AM
I am watching the whole concert now, and it seems to my not trained ears that the mix it's a bit different (in a good way).

Now, why do you mix the audio for the video differently than the one for the CD?

I'm not a professional mixer (but I played one on TV once) but there are a couple reasons.   One, dynamic range; CD's aren't always played in the same way or in the same place as DVDs .   Two, the spatial mix of the CD.   Three, the spatial mix of the DVD (as I understand it, the 5.1 mixes often start with a different stereo mix).  Four, it may not actually be a different MIX exactly, but rather sound different based on the sound processing used (you can tell the difference between a Dolby processed sound signal and not). 

I've on several occasions now ripped the audio from my DVDs and put it on my music server, even though I have the audio already from the CD.   It often sounds different (I'm not always 1000% sure why, but see above).

Thank you Stadler
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: goo-goo on July 26, 2019, 12:32:15 PM
Perfect example right now is DT's Distance over Time. The stereo mix ripped from the bluray is way better than the CD or HDTracks version.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: MinistroRaven on July 27, 2019, 10:13:36 AM
Some toughts from a friend after listening the promo:

"- Bumblefoot is clearly the MVP of this band. Not only he's a mind blowing guitarist, his backup vocals really help the songs come alive.

- Not a fan of the cover songs, and Jeff didn't exactly perform them too well.

- The solo spots felt like a waste of time, specially Sheehan's (sorry).

- Wasn't bothered by the audio mix, but some of the video shots could've been better.

- They nailed the DT tunes. Again, huge props to Bumblefoot for those JP parts and solos.

- The band seems, to me, like they aren't sure what their objective is. They reach some prog territory with a couple of their songs and were able to do the DT songs justice, but then move to just being a classic rock covers supergroup, with the "rock" attitude and all of that. Like they wish they were part of one of those old bands and some of their other songs reflect that. They don't seem to find their place just yet. Let's see where the second album goes musically."
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: PMA on July 28, 2019, 11:52:50 AM
Some toughts from a friend after listening the promo:

"- Bumblefoot is clearly the MVP of this band. Not only he's a mind blowing guitarist, his backup vocals really help the songs come alive.

- Not a fan of the cover songs, and Jeff didn't exactly perform them too well.

- The solo spots felt like a waste of time, specially Sheehan's (sorry).

- Wasn't bothered by the audio mix, but some of the video shots could've been better.

- They nailed the DT tunes. Again, huge props to Bumblefoot for those JP parts and solos.

- The band seems, to me, like they aren't sure what their objective is. They reach some prog territory with a couple of their songs and were able to do the DT songs justice, but then move to just being a classic rock covers supergroup, with the "rock" attitude and all of that. Like they wish they were part of one of those old bands and some of their other songs reflect that. They don't seem to find their place just yet. Let's see where the second album goes musically."

I haven't yet seen the whole show but am a fan of any highly technical prog performances so I look forward to getting this.  That said, I wasn't hugely impressed with SoA's studio release and the songs began to sound the same after several listens.  I also am not a fan of JSS"s singing style and agree with others that he can sound like he's straining.  Bumblefoot's voice in the DT tune they've released where he takes some lead vocals sounded thin and I didn't care for it.  Maybe it's just the tune so I'll wait to see if he covers anything else.  Playing wise, they are top notch and I'm glad Portnoy and Sherinian decided to do this but I also hope their next release will be better.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: MirrorMask on July 29, 2019, 01:38:33 AM
- The solo spots felt like a waste of time, specially Sheehan's (sorry).

More a need to fill up time, since they only have one album after all!
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Peter Mc on July 30, 2019, 02:56:32 AM
There’s never any excuse for a bass solo spot!
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: MirrorMask on July 30, 2019, 03:33:19 AM
There’s never any excuse for a bass solo spot!

I remember on a Stratovarius live album the drummer, during his solo, said in the middle "Good news is - no bass solo. Bad new is - the drum solo hasn't ended", and carried on  :lol
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on July 30, 2019, 07:01:57 AM
On Kamelot's tour they are doing a drum and keyboard thing together, I feel like if you want to incorporate solo spots, doing something like combining two into one that is more musical and interesting is better than just one person beating their instrument to death.  I'm mostly not a fan of solo spots, but for SOA, if I remember correctly, Bumblefoot's solo is more of a band spot playng the Pink Panther theme (which was cooler than I expected) and JFF's was him singing his Queen covers (I think the band even came in at the end?) so I found those solo spots to also be more interesting than the instrument beating.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Madman Shepherd on August 02, 2019, 11:46:49 PM
First show announced for 2020. St Charles, IL, January 31st.

https://www.facebook.com/events/1076109729251210/

This promoter is notorious for spilling the beans early so I expect this will either be taken down for a bit or a full tour announcement is coming very soon
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bosk1 on August 03, 2019, 10:30:34 PM
They put on a good show last time around.  But if this is real, I'm not seeing them again without them having some new music.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: The Walrus on August 03, 2019, 10:43:01 PM
On my birthday, within driving distance.  Wish it was the Dogs instead.  :facepalm:
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bosk1 on August 03, 2019, 10:53:43 PM
Insomnia issues?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: The Walrus on August 03, 2019, 11:24:37 PM
Insomnia issues?

Huh? It's only 12:30 here. The night is young.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Madman Shepherd on August 04, 2019, 12:06:48 AM
They put on a good show last time around.  But if this is real, I'm not seeing them again without them having some new music.

Isn't their new album due out early next year? Would make sense to tour in support of it unlike last time where they release the album and then tour several months later.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Podaar on August 04, 2019, 06:04:59 AM
Insomnia issues?

Huh? It's only 12:30 here. The night is young.

I believe he was responding to your wish to see "the Dogs instead". As in, only someone with insomnia issues would want to listen to the Winery Dogs since their music is so incredibly sleep inducing.  ;) ;)
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: The Walrus on August 04, 2019, 08:27:36 AM
Insomnia issues?

Huh? It's only 12:30 here. The night is young.

I believe he was responding to your wish to see "the Dogs instead". As in, only someone with insomnia issues would want to listen to the Winery Dogs since their music is so incredibly sleep inducing.  ;) ;)

 :facepalm:  :lol
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on August 05, 2019, 08:26:39 AM
They put on a good show last time around.  But if this is real, I'm not seeing them again without them having some new music.

Aren't they expecting an early 2020 release?  I do hope the new album would be out before they tour again too. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Stadler on August 05, 2019, 08:44:54 AM
If there's no album, there's almost zero chance I'm seeing them again in 2020.  I'll go if they're touring new music, but there wasn't enough there for me to want to see the same set again. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: RodrigoAltaf on August 05, 2019, 09:00:50 AM
They're working on it
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: goo-goo on August 05, 2019, 09:42:31 AM
January is being floated around as the release timeframe. Drums are already tracked since MP did this way early this year.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: rumborak on August 07, 2019, 02:02:44 PM
https://metalinjection.net/upcoming-releases/overkill-ex-machine-head-ex-dream-theater-members-team-up-for-new-band

Might be old news, sorry.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on August 07, 2019, 02:12:31 PM
https://metalinjection.net/upcoming-releases/overkill-ex-machine-head-ex-dream-theater-members-team-up-for-new-band

Might be old news, sorry.

It was rumored, I've got no interest in this.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: MinistroRaven on August 07, 2019, 03:11:36 PM
Official review by the Prog Report

https://progreport.com/sons-of-apollo-live-with-the-plovdiv-psychotic-symphony-review
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Dublagent66 on August 07, 2019, 03:42:55 PM
https://metalinjection.net/upcoming-releases/overkill-ex-machine-head-ex-dream-theater-members-team-up-for-new-band

Might be old news, sorry.

It was rumored, I've got no interest in this.

I saw this on Twitter and I'm like....:wtf:
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: TAC on August 07, 2019, 05:37:02 PM
I'd be down for this! :metal
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: MinistroRaven on August 07, 2019, 05:40:00 PM
Why is it so difficult for rock stars to aknowledge that the preview THEY put out it's mixed so f*cking bad?

(https://i.ibb.co/xYp2TW0/SOTO.png) (https://ibb.co/gd5rKNp)

I really don't get it.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Madman Shepherd on August 07, 2019, 09:48:04 PM
https://metalinjection.net/upcoming-releases/overkill-ex-machine-head-ex-dream-theater-members-team-up-for-new-band

Might be old news, sorry.

It was rumored, I've got no interest in this.

No interest in a band that's a mix of Overkill meets Machine Head meets Dream Theater meets Winery Dogs meets Flying Colors meets Transatlantic meets Sons of Apollo meets Neal Morse Band meets Metal Allegiance meets Adrenaline Mob? ???
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Cool Chris on August 07, 2019, 10:20:13 PM
No interest in a band that's a mix of Overkill meets Machine Head meets Dream Theater meets Winery Dogs meets Flying Colors meets Transatlantic meets Sons of Apollo meets Neal Morse Band meets Metal Allegiance meets Adrenaline Mob? ???

Their new album will probably feature songs that are the equivalent of Stairway to Heaven, Hotel California, Bohemian Rhapsody, Thriller, Hey Jude, Smells Like Teen Spirit, Gangnam Style, the Happy Birthday song, and Baby Shark.   
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: MirrorMask on August 08, 2019, 01:02:32 AM
No interest in a band that's a mix of Overkill meets Machine Head meets Dream Theater meets Winery Dogs meets Flying Colors meets Transatlantic meets Sons of Apollo meets Neal Morse Band meets Metal Allegiance meets Adrenaline Mob? ???

Their new album will probably feature songs that are the equivalent of Stairway to Heaven, Hotel California, Bohemian Rhapsody, Thriller, Hey Jude, Smells Like Teen Spirit, Gangnam Style, the Happy Birthday song, and Baby Shark.   

Yes, but all in one album!  :metal
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: KevShmev on August 08, 2019, 08:29:28 AM
That's great, but the album will be incomplete without a 2020 equivalent of mother f'ing Psychosane.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bosk1 on August 08, 2019, 09:13:35 AM
I think that post would probably be more applicable in the MP thread.  But anyhow...

Listening to an advance copy of the Plovdiv show, it confirms what I already knew:  These guys put on a solid live show.  The songs are good and the performance is energetic and, as I said, solid.  If you like the songs and can get past the immature, frat-boy stage banter, you won't be disappointed by this.  I know I'll be buying it when it comes out.  The latter point will unfortunately limit the amount of listens I give it.  But I expected that.

I'll also add that I think JSS sounds good.  Is he perfect?  Nope.  But this is a rock show, not a studio recording.  I don't expect him to sound pristine.  He sounds like a good rock front man having a good time doing a fun rock show.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: gmillerdrake on August 08, 2019, 10:13:19 AM
Listening to an advance copy of the Plovdiv show, it confirms what I already knew:  These guys put on a solid live show.  The songs are good and the performance is energetic and, as I said, solid.  If you like the songs and can get past the immature, frat-boy stage banter, you won't be disappointed by this.  I know I'll be buying it when it comes out.  The latter point will unfortunately limit the amount of listens I give it.  But I expected that.

I'll also add that I think JSS sounds good.  Is he perfect?  Nope.  But this is a rock show, not a studio recording.  I don't expect him to sound pristine.  He sounds like a good rock front man having a good time doing a fun rock show.

To this point....while I wasn't 'in love' with the album and honestly think/thought the songs were just 'ok' considering the talent involved......I did see them live when they came through St. Louis and am glad I did. JSS sounded fantastic live and the energy (minus DS who looked bored or drugged) they gave off made it a really fun show to see. I was thoroughly impressed by Ron Thal's guitar playing AND his vocals also. I'd go see them again should they stop in St. Louis but I don't think I'm traveling anywhere to see them.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: rumborak on August 08, 2019, 10:27:22 AM
I definitely saw them live not because the music was particularly good, but rather because of the live performance. It was a great show for sure. (With the slight caveat that watching a 50-year old drinking straight vodka on stage was a bit troubling).
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: goo-goo on August 08, 2019, 10:36:41 AM
I'll be getting this one but making a playlist with the full SoA album in a live setting. The songs were so much stronger.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Stadler on August 08, 2019, 10:48:07 AM
I saw it live too, and in hindsight it just seems a tad ... schizophrenic to me.  Are they Van Halen?  Are they Dream Theater?  Neither?  Both?   The problem for me is, as great as he is (I have a Queen tribute album on which Jeff SHINES) much of the schizophrenia comes from the front man.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: rumborak on August 08, 2019, 12:05:56 PM
I'm with you, Stadler, that's the same impression I had during the gig. Their choice of songs was really odd, from several Queen covers (I mean, one is fine, but several?) to Dream Theater covers which, at this point, hurt the cause more than they help I feel.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: KevShmev on August 08, 2019, 12:09:16 PM

To this point....while I wasn't 'in love' with the album and honestly think/thought the songs were just 'ok' considering the talent involved......I did see them live when they came through St. Louis and am glad I did. JSS sounded fantastic live and the energy (minus DS who looked bored or drugged) they gave off made it a really fun show to see. I was thoroughly impressed by Ron Thal's guitar playing AND his vocals also. I'd go see them again should they stop in St. Louis but I don't think I'm traveling anywhere to see them.

Same here.

As someone who wasn't much of fan of the first album, I couldn't talk myself into traveling 20 miles to see them when they came here.

:P :P
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Madman Shepherd on August 08, 2019, 12:19:44 PM
I saw it live too, and in hindsight it just seems a tad ... schizophrenic to me.  Are they Van Halen?  Are they Dream Theater?  Neither?  Both?   The problem for me is, as great as he is (I have a Queen tribute album on which Jeff SHINES) much of the schizophrenia comes from the front man.

More of a Van Halen meets Dream Theater meets neither meets both.

But seriously, I don't mind that they are all over the map BUT I can see why you would have an issue with that. I thought half their songs just weren't good, whether they were proggier or rockier, and the other half were. Divine Addiction almost sounds like it doesn't belong on the album but it ended up being my favorite song off of it. The other two favorites are the proggier ones. Some of my favorite albums get accused of not being focused so I don't mind it being all over the map as long as it's good, which as I stated, half of Psychotic Symphony just is not.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bosk1 on August 08, 2019, 01:03:11 PM
Outside of this forum (and, for the most part, outside of this and possibly other MP-related threads), I don't think I've ever heard anyone use the term "cover" to describe a situation where some of a song's original writers and performers performing the song with some other people.  Just feels like unnecessary anti-MP bias to me. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: rumborak on August 08, 2019, 01:06:58 PM
At least from my side, has nothing to do with MP. I call what Queen+Adam Lambert are doing "covers" as well.

EDIT: Or maybe even more controversially, when JLB and JR played SDV, for me that was a cover as well.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Madman Shepherd on August 08, 2019, 01:34:02 PM
If you go to setlist.com, they always refer to them as covers unless it is the actual band playing them.

Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: JayOctavarium on August 08, 2019, 02:40:36 PM
So...

Heaven and Hell playing Heaven and Hell... is that considered a cover? :lol
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: MirrorMask on August 08, 2019, 03:03:37 PM
So...

Heaven and Hell playing Heaven and Hell... is that considered a cover? :lol

I think the debate regarding that specific reincarnation of the Dio / Iommi venture could be as long as the debate about wether Six Degrees is a single song or not  :lol
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: rumborak on August 08, 2019, 04:23:26 PM
To add a few to the list: Geoff Tate singing O:M, Roger Waters performing The Wall, all to me are covers of their own songs.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Cool Chris on August 08, 2019, 04:27:33 PM
I have no issue with that thinking, despite it being a little weird. If James, JP, and JM replace JSS, Thal, and Sheehan in SoA, and they play Just Let Me Breathe, that is still (oddly enough) SoA covering a DT song.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ReaperKK on August 08, 2019, 09:39:23 PM
No interest in a band that's a mix of Overkill meets Machine Head meets Dream Theater meets Winery Dogs meets Flying Colors meets Transatlantic meets Sons of Apollo meets Neal Morse Band meets Metal Allegiance meets Adrenaline Mob? ???

Their new album will probably feature songs that are the equivalent of Stairway to Heaven, Hotel California, Bohemian Rhapsody, Thriller, Hey Jude, Smells Like Teen Spirit, Gangnam Style, the Happy Birthday song, and Baby Shark.   

Yes, but all in one album!  :metal

For sure, it'll be the best thing MP has ever done, everything else was pure garbage compared to this coming masterpiece.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Madman Shepherd on August 08, 2019, 11:24:43 PM
So...

Heaven and Hell playing Heaven and Hell... is that considered a cover? :lol

According to setlist.fm (not .com like I said previously), yes. But I think there should be a caveat to exclude bands that are the same band but just changed their name to placate an asshole like Sharon Osbourne.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: MirrorMask on August 09, 2019, 01:04:43 AM
So...

Heaven and Hell playing Heaven and Hell... is that considered a cover? :lol

According to setlist.fm (not .com like I said previously), yes. But I think there should be a caveat to exclude bands that are the same band but just changed their name to placate an asshole like Sharon Osbourne.

Not to derail the thread, but I remember a quite informed fansite stressing that this wasn't the case, and that at least back in the day, Iommi was still the sole owner of the Black Sabbath name.

The name change was done just to free them from the expectations that came with the name, and to justify playing only songs from the Dio era. If you go to see "Black Sabbath" you expect Iron Man and Paranoid regardless of the lineup. If you go to see Heaven and Hell, you know what you get.

To add to the weirdness, when Dio and Iommi got back together in 2006 they wrote three new songs, which were added on the compilation "The Dio Years" which came out under the Black Sabbath name. So we have Heaven and Hell, which is the same band of the 1982 version of Black Sabbath, playing songs released as Black Sabbath. A covers inception  ;D
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Ben_Jamin on August 09, 2019, 01:19:40 AM
I figured it was because Both incarnations of Black Sabbath were active at the time. So the Dio lineup ended up changing their name as to not cause confusion, likely in booking.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: MirrorMask on August 09, 2019, 02:40:01 AM
I figured it was because Both incarnations of Black Sabbath were active at the time. So the Dio lineup ended up changing their name as to not cause confusion, likely in booking.

Well, after 2005 Black Sabbath with Ozzy was more or less put on ice, and if I remember correctly no Black Sabbatah shows happened while Iommi was busy with Dio (2006-2010), but yeah, having a name change removes the problem to "officially" fire Ozzy from the band and bringing RJD back as the singer.

If for whatever reason there's still a Dream Theater active but JP, MP, JR and JM go on tour with Russell Allen as "Nightmare Cinema", they technically didn't fire LaBrie.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Madman Shepherd on August 09, 2019, 03:36:15 AM
Yeah but let's face it, there's almost a 100% chance that Iommi was equally as influenced by not wanting to get on Sharon's bad side as everything you mentioned.

Then she sues him for 50% of the name a few years later anyway, claiming that it should actually belong equally to all the original members of Black Sabbath, settles the lawsuit, gets the original band back together and magically no one brings up the Osbourne's absurd statement about the name being equally owned by everyone, even as they can the drummer and turn the drum stool over to the stiffest and absolute worst  Sabbath drummer in history, Tommy Clufetos.

BTW, there is a hilarious interview with the Sabbs, err, Heaven & Hellers on Eddie Trunk, I think the night of the big Radio City show. They discuss the name and Dio is hilarious. Geezer is drunk off his ass too. Ronnie says that they thought about naming themselves Tommy Miami and the Corvettes (or something even more hilarious) and then said, they also kicked around the idea of calling themselves Geezer Butler and the Italians. They talk about how to pronounce the name "Appice" and the normally reserved Geezer chimes in and says, "Everyone always gets my name wrong. It's actually BOOTLAH " and goes on and on as he gets drunker and drunker.

By the end of the night, Geezer was literally just making noises into the microphone.

I would pay someone several dollars if they could find that interview.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: New World Rushman on August 09, 2019, 06:01:08 AM
Continuing these thoughts...
So when ARW played Yes tunes, they were considered Yes covers, which I get, when they changed their name to Yes featuring...,they were still considered Yes covers.

But when the current "official" Yes played Time and a Word, a song none of the current members played on, it's not listed as a cover.

And somehow, that all makes sense!
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: IDontNotDoThings on August 09, 2019, 06:57:20 AM
Relevant: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ship_of_Theseus
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Stadler on August 09, 2019, 08:04:18 AM
Relevant: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ship_of_Theseus

There is no band?  The band does not exist! 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: KevShmev on August 09, 2019, 08:31:04 AM
setlist.fm is weird with the covers thing.

Every time Devin Townsend Project did a show, any song that was by Devin Townsend or Devin Townsend Band, was listed as a cover. :lol :lol
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on August 09, 2019, 08:44:54 AM
setlist.fm is weird with the covers thing.

Every time Devin Townsend Project did a show, any song that was by Devin Townsend or Devin Townsend Band, was listed as a cover. :lol :lol

I think thats a bit weird too, but SOA doing DT is definitely a cover and honestly their versions of those DT songs are kind of what helped win me over.  Seeing Bumblefoot just perform JP solos flawlessly while making it look fun was really impressive. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: gzarruk on August 09, 2019, 09:40:12 AM
setlist.fm is weird with the covers thing.

Every time Devin Townsend Project did a show, any song that was by Devin Townsend or Devin Townsend Band, was listed as a cover. :lol :lol

What's even weirder is the fact that setlist.fm lists DTP playing material from Devin's solo albums as "Devin Townsend song", but when they played something from Devin Townsend Band, it appears as "Devin Townsend Band cover" :huh:
See here: https://www.setlist.fm/setlist/devin-townsend-project/2017/trix-zaal-borgerhout-belgium-7bf8d264.html

And, IIRC, it's not the only time/band I've seen this happen with.

To me, it's about under whose name a song was released. A song being released by a certain band/artist will be considered a cover if another band plays it, no matter if some of the same writers/players are in that other band. SOA playing DT is a cover, same as DT playing LTE. Whoever wrote or owns the rights to the music/lyrics is a completely different thing, imo (even though some situations might not be as easy to judge as others).
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Orbert on August 09, 2019, 10:26:43 AM
To me, it's about under whose name a song was released. A song being released by a certain band/artist will be considered a cover if another band plays it, no matter if some of the same writers/players are in that other band. SOA playing DT is a cover, same as DT playing LTE. Whoever wrote or owns the rights to the music/lyrics is a completely different thing, imo (even though some situations might not be as easy to judge as others).

This.  The Heaven and Hell situation is a great example of how fucked up it can get, with the same lineup playing the same songs they recorded under a different band name, therefore they're technically covers, but it's still the general rule.

The Yes situation is also pretty bad, but technically "Yes Featuring Anderson, Rabin & Wakeman" is not the same as "Yes".  There's still the official band Yes, and everyone else.  Anderson Bruford Wakeman & Howe did Yes covers.  ARW did Yes covers, and so did Yes Featuring ARW.  Fun stuff.

The artist or band who originally recorded the song can play the song and it's theirs, even if it's a band and there's no one in the lineup that actually played on the original.  Any other artist or band that plays it or records it is doing a cover.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on August 09, 2019, 10:36:14 AM
Yea, there's definitely some grey area like Orbert is saying with some of these bands, but I totally agree and I also don't feel like SOA is in this territory at all.  They don't advertise themselves as DT either.  MP's TSF was closer to DT than SOA is and even then TSF was clearly a cover band.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Stadler on August 09, 2019, 10:47:00 AM
Some of this isn't for the expert die-hard fan, though, either.  Some of it is intended as a reference base.

If I go to a show and see Sons of Apollo, and like that one song right before the encore ("Lines" something something), and I want to know who did it, it helps me to know it's a "Dream Theater" song more than it helps me to know that "Derek Sherinian" and "Mike Portnoy" wrote it.   Let's not forget that we are relative experts here, and not everyone is.  I went to Maiden with a pretty big fan, who has seen them five or six times, and asked "what was that God song?" ("For The Greater Good of God").  Hell, I KNOW the song and often call it "For The Greater Glory Of God".   
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Madman Shepherd on August 09, 2019, 11:06:24 AM
setlist.fm is weird with the covers thing.

Every time Devin Townsend Project did a show, any song that was by Devin Townsend or Devin Townsend Band, was listed as a cover. :lol :lol

That's kind of Devin's fault for blurring the lines. I still can't figure out what the difference between all of them are.

Continuing these thoughts...
So when ARW played Yes tunes, they were considered Yes covers, which I get, when they changed their name to Yes featuring...,they were still considered Yes covers.

But when the current "official" Yes played Time and a Word, a song none of the current members played on, it's not listed as a cover.

And somehow, that all makes sense!

Gotta draw the line somewhere!

What about in 1988 when Ozzy was touring with Geezer and they played Black Sabbath songs? Definitely a cover. That same year, Iommi was the only original member in Sabbath and when they did Sabbath tunes it sounded a hell of a lot more like Sabbath then when Ozzy and Geezer did them.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bosk1 on August 09, 2019, 11:28:11 AM
Well, I disagree with a lot of the reasoning above.  Obviously, we can come up with lots of weird scenarios where the lines are very blurry.  But, again, where you have members of the band that wrote the songs in question, I can't consider that a cover, and that descriptions just seems like a cheap way of trying to make the performance of those songs somehow less legit. 

To use an example, Roger Waters playing any Pink Floyd song up through The Final cut: not a "cover."  David Gilmoure's "Pink Floyd" playing the same songs: not a "cover."  David Gilmoure's solo band playing the same songs: not a "cover."  Jon Carin playing those songs with a band not featuring any original members: "cover." 

Taking that to this thread, SoA playing any pre-Mangini DT song, and especially those from FII:  Most decidedly not covers.  Playing VH or Queen songs:  Most decidedly covers.

Anyhow, by any definition, my take on this album is that all the songs sound pretty good.  But by the Aerosmith cover, JSS starts to sound really worn out.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Madman Shepherd on August 09, 2019, 11:52:41 AM
Well, I disagree with a lot of the reasoning above.  Obviously, we can come up with lots of weird scenarios where the lines are very blurry.  But, again, where you have members of the band that wrote the songs in question, I can't consider that a cover, and that descriptions just seems like a cheap way of trying to make the performance of those songs somehow less legit. 

To use an example, Roger Waters playing any Pink Floyd song up through The Final cut: not a "cover."  David Gilmoure's "Pink Floyd" playing the same songs: not a "cover."  David Gilmoure's solo band playing the same songs: not a "cover."  Jon Carin playing those songs with a band not featuring any original members: "cover." 

Taking that to this thread, SoA playing any pre-Mangini DT song, and especially those from FII:  Most decidedly not covers.  Playing VH or Queen songs:  Most decidedly covers.

Anyhow, by any definition, my take on this album is that all the songs sound pretty good.  But by the Aerosmith cover, JSS starts to sound really worn out.

What about if they played a Planet X song? I mean, Virgil Donati was a significant member and if he's not there is it fair to say it's not a cover?

Considering there is so much grey area, why not just draw the line where bands that are labeled as something else, no matter the number of original-ish members, are covers.

To continue with Black Sabbath, in 1994 there was a tribute album that came out called Nativity in Black. Ozzy was on a track with a band called Therapy? doing a cover of Iron Man. Geezer and Bill Ward were on a track with a band created just for the album with Rob Halford with his guitar player from Fight and Wino from The Obsessed. We could sit here and argue over the "feel" of the songs, which I don't think either had much of a Sabb feel, but why not just keep it simple and say, yeah...they were covers.

I suppose we could come up with an arbitrary formula, like if 37% of the original band members are present, who wrote at least 13% of the song in question, then it's not a cover, but I think we would undoubtedly be splitting hairs, which is what most of these arguments are doing anyway.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bosk1 on August 09, 2019, 11:54:22 AM
I wouldn't view any of those as covers.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on August 09, 2019, 11:56:01 AM
Taking that to this thread, SoA playing any pre-Mangini DT song, and especially those from FII:  Most decidedly not covers.

Considering you are the only one supporting this view, I think they are most decidedly covers. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bosk1 on August 09, 2019, 11:59:41 AM
Don't mistake a 5-person majority in this thread as a majority.  In real life outside this forum, you guys are probably the ONLY 5 people that hold your view.  :lol
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on August 09, 2019, 12:00:45 PM
Not buying that at all  :lol
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bosk1 on August 09, 2019, 12:02:57 PM
Okay, I'll give you 6 since I doubt that the guy who put that Wikipedia entry together was from this forum.  Better?  :biggrin:
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on August 09, 2019, 12:06:05 PM
 :corn  :lol
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Madman Shepherd on August 09, 2019, 12:17:48 PM
Okay, I'll give you 6 since I doubt that the guy who put that Wikipedia entry together was from this forum.  Better?  :biggrin:

Not that setlist.fm is gospel, but I think you may be in the minority on this one.

I wouldn't view any of those as covers.

So you meet a guy from Therapy? and say...

"Hey man, loved your cover of Iron Man."

"Dude, not a cover. Ozzy was on the song. He spent several dozen minutes in a studio recording his vocals for that song. At this point, we're basically Black Sabbath."

"Um, I don't know if that..."

"Just ask Bosk!"

"Who the fuck is Bosk?"

"The majority!"
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: The Walrus on August 09, 2019, 12:20:28 PM
hol' up

Derek and Mike are only 2/5 of DT. A cover is a rerecording of a song by an artist other than the original. The original artist of DT's songs is, well, DT. Logically speaking that means it's a cover when Derek and Mike are playing DT songs even if it's a Derek creation because it was released and credited under the DT name, right? Plus they're only 2/5 the band, over half the band is different players.  :corn
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bosk1 on August 09, 2019, 12:29:27 PM
Okay, I'll give you 6 since I doubt that the guy who put that Wikipedia entry together was from this forum.  Better?  :biggrin:

Not that setlist.fm is gospel, but I think you may be in the minority on this one.

Look, it's ultimately an individual thing.  And in all seriousness, maybe I AM in the minority (although I don't think I am).  But either way, I wouldn't be relying on setlist.fm to make my argument.  I mean, it's beyond setlist.fm being "not quite gospel."  They quite frequently get set lists--the very thing they were created to track--wrong.  :lol

I wouldn't view any of those as covers.

So you meet a guy from Therapy? and say...

"Hey man, loved your cover of Iron Man."

"Dude, not a cover. Ozzy was on the song. He spent several dozen minutes in a studio recording his vocals for that song. At this point, we're basically Black Sabbath."

"Um, I don't know if that..."

"Just ask Bosk!"

"Who the fuck is Bosk?"

"The majority!"

Wait, so Ozzy wasn't a member of Therapy?, but was only a guest?  Yeah, maybe that changes my answer.  I dunno.  I still can't for the life of me understand how someone performing their own stuff is a "cover."  You can't cover your own stuff. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: JayOctavarium on August 09, 2019, 12:33:56 PM
Here's another one.

Jordan's "Notes on a Dream" album. Specifically the tracks that he originally contributed to... are those considered covers? :lol

Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Madman Shepherd on August 09, 2019, 12:54:01 PM
Here's another one.

Jordan's "Notes on a Dream" album. Specifically the tracks that he originally contributed to... are those considered covers? :lol

There are covers and originals.

So many of those songs are from pre-Jordan DT and some are Jordan-era DT.

If you were to say, "Jordan released an album of covers and some originals" it would imply that some are, ya know, original. (So I just looked, apparently there are 3 originals which are classified as such because they've never been done before).

Then you find out some of the songs are interpretations of songs that were written and recorded with him in the band. So, The Answer Lies Within is on that album. When it was first released, it went through the DT ringer. People changed bits and pieces, James added his voice, Portnoy probably gave a direction like, "Let's make this like Radiohead meets Lady Gaga meets Los Lobos" and then it was released as the band Dream Theater.

Jordan then records it and it is declared a "Jordan Rudess song" because he didn't get any input from the rest of the band, some of them may never have even heard it, and calling it a cover differentiates that and the already established version.

Also, calling it a cover doesn't necessarily de-legitimize the song but it does help give it context.

With the Therapy? analogy, it clearly gets muddy with who is in the band at what time and whatever or if it's just a guest appearance. For the sake discussing the music industry, I think it is just more clear cut and easier to discuss.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on August 09, 2019, 01:00:58 PM
Also, calling it a cover doesn't necessarily de-legitimize the song but it does help give it context.

Good point.  Sometimes it seems people immediately think negatively when thinking about covers.  SOA doing DT worked extremely well and I'm sure they got that positive feedback too since they released a DT song as their first single from the live album. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Lethean on August 09, 2019, 01:04:01 PM
Add one to the original 5 + the Wikipedia guy, now we're up to at least 10. :)

I think it's a cover.  And while I do not like SOA, that's not the reason I consider it a cover.  If James' band ever tours again and does a DT song, it'll be a cover too, and I'm a big fan of James.  A band called Subsignal is playing ProgPower this year.  The singer and guitar player came from a band called Sieges Even.  If they play a Sieges Even song, I'd call it a cover. And not in a derogatory way - I'd probably love it.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Madman Shepherd on August 09, 2019, 01:11:13 PM
I've heard bands even say "We're going to do an old X song" instead of, "we're going to do one of *my* songs from 20 years ago" or whatever. The implication is, "We're going to do a song that is something else, that we have a connection to."

BTW, MP has probably done more to disparage the idea of playing DT covers with SoA than anyone else. He essentially said, and I'll paraphrase, "After our second album we won't be doing anymore DT songs because we'll have enough material to exclusively do SoA." He makes it sound like it's a burden to do DT covers. I'm a very moderate SoA fan but I honestly think they should always have a FII song in the set, and it would probably encourage me to go to more shows. As it stands now, I probably won't see them again. Saw them once and unless I'm blown away by their followup (doubtful) then I'll just check out the occasional youtube clip. If they pulled out Trial of Tears, I'd bite the bullet and go. I think they could actually do a pretty kickass version of it and to hear Derek do his solo on that song would be hard to pass up.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Setlist Scotty on August 09, 2019, 02:46:30 PM
BTW, MP has probably done more to disparage the idea of playing DT covers with SoA than anyone else. He essentially said, and I'll paraphrase, "After our second album we won't be doing anymore DT songs because we'll have enough material to exclusively do SoA." He makes it sound like it's a burden to do DT covers. I'm a very moderate SoA fan but I honestly think they should always have a FII song in the set, and it would probably encourage me to go to more shows. As it stands now, I probably won't see them again.
I understand what you're saying, but I also understand what he's saying. I don't think he wants to give the impression that they'll always need at least one DT song in the set as if it were a crutch. He wants the band to be able to stand on it's own, just as has been the case with all his other bands. Remember, TA included part of Finally Free in a medley for their first tour. And FC did a good part of Repentance on their first tour. But since then, neither band has included any DT songs in their setlists. So I would imagine that SoA is in the same boat. That said, I can imagine some time down the road, maybe them throwing something from FII, or even ACoS in the setlist. But it would probably be for some sort of anniversary or some other significance rather than to fill out the set as they did on their first tour.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bosk1 on August 09, 2019, 03:02:07 PM
I hadn't even though about ACOS, but now that you mention it, I'm kinda surprised they didn't think about working it up for the Plovdiv show rather than adding in some additional covers.  Mike had really wanted to play that one when DT was doing it during the I&WaB tour, and it would be a beast with an orchestra in a setting like that.  Take out Kashmir, gAtes of Babylon, Dream On, and The Show Must Go On (all of which JSS really struggled on anyway), and there is more than enough room in the set.  That would have been really cool.  Missed opportunity.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on August 09, 2019, 03:08:28 PM
True, ACOS with the orchestra would have been sick
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: JayOctavarium on August 09, 2019, 03:16:27 PM
I'd be bummed if LITS leaves their set. I really think it should stay as a perma fixture.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Grappler on August 09, 2019, 06:32:57 PM
I'm glad to read Bosk's review...I'll definitely be getting it and am looking forward to finally seeing the band play live in some form.   :metal
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ReaperKK on August 09, 2019, 08:21:30 PM
Here's another one.

Jordan's "Notes on a Dream" album. Specifically the tracks that he originally contributed to... are those considered covers? :lol



That's a good point. What would the Gavin Harrison's album "Cheating The Polygraph" be? Those are essentially reimagings of PT songs but they are so different that SW didn't recognize a song when Gavin played it for him
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Cool Chris on August 09, 2019, 08:37:49 PM
SoA playing any pre-Mangini DT song, and especially those from FII:  Most decidedly not covers. 

Just chiming in here just to disagree (and alleviate my own boredom). SoA is performing songs originally recorded by DT. Isn't that the definition of a cover song?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Adami on August 09, 2019, 08:40:23 PM
Eh, it's blurry, but I have to call these covers.

If MP was touring as himself, I wouldn't call them covers. But he's touring as Sons of Apollo. That makes them doing other bands' songs covers. Even if two of them contributed to those songs to some degree.

If they covered Guns n Roses songs, it'd be covers, even though Bumblebee was in GnR and helped write one of the albums (I think).
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Anguyen92 on August 09, 2019, 09:15:46 PM
Eh, it's blurry, but I have to call these covers.

If MP was touring as himself, I wouldn't call them covers. But he's touring as Sons of Apollo. That makes them doing other bands' songs covers. Even if two of them contributed to those songs to some degree.

If they covered Guns n Roses songs, it'd be covers, even though Bumblebee was in GnR and helped write one of the albums (I think).

I do remember being a bit peeved when I saw Three Days Grace earlier this year with their most recent singer and when they were about to play a song that Adam Gontier sang, their new singer was like "we created this song 10-15 years ago when blah blah blah."  No, the other three guys took part in creating those hit songs.  You didn't.

What about during that period when Slash and Duff was not in GNR and it was only Axl and then a bunch of guys that didn't play on songs like Welcome to the Jungle, Paradise City, etc. playing those songs live.  Technically, it still counted as GNR in name only since the brand was under GNR.

When Slash plays GNR covers with his solo band, I deemed those covers even if Slash played lead guitar on those songs.  Things do get a bit blurry when a guy like Myles Kennedy, in his solo shows, plays the stuff that he sang and provided lyrics to for Slash's solo stuff and Alter Bridge.  What about guys like Eddie Vedder when he plays Pearl Jam stuff in his solo shows?  Do they count as covers?  Chris Cornell played a good amount of Soundgarden/Audioslave stuff in his solo shows.  Do they count as covers even if he wrote, played guitar in some songs, and sang the songs?



Therefore, even though MP and DS played on the DT stuff for the SOA shows, I say they are covers.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Ben_Jamin on August 09, 2019, 09:42:58 PM
Are we going to dwell into the realm of Great White and Jack Russels Great White?

I'll likely look up some vids on youtube when its released. Likely Labyrinth and the 2nd set of covers.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: The Walrus on August 09, 2019, 09:44:09 PM
The rest of GnR was covering in the sense that they were covering parts played by former GnR members but Axl and Dizzy were there for the whole shebang, so I honestly don't know how I'd categorize that. I think we've entered ship of Theseus territory
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Adami on August 09, 2019, 09:44:19 PM
Personally, if it's a solo show, I don't count them as covers. Just if they're doing it as part of another band.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Madman Shepherd on August 09, 2019, 10:02:39 PM
Eh, it's blurry, but I have to call these covers.

If MP was touring as himself, I wouldn't call them covers. But he's touring as Sons of Apollo. That makes them doing other bands' songs covers. Even if two of them contributed to those songs to some degree.

If they covered Guns n Roses songs, it'd be covers, even though Bumblebee was in GnR and helped write one of the albums (I think).

He helped write precisely zero songs with GNR and had minimal performance contributions on the one album he appears on. Added some guitar here and there and strangely replaced Buckethead's solos on 2 of the 3 tracks Buckethead cowrote, but Buckethead's solos on the songs he didn't cowrite are largely in tact.

So, if SoA plays songs off of Chinese Democracy are those covers? What about the one or two that Bumblefoot actually got to solo on?





Spoiler: Yes, totally covers.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: MirrorMask on August 10, 2019, 04:05:36 AM
I do remember being a bit peeved when I saw Three Days Grace earlier this year with their most recent singer and when they were about to play a song that Adam Gontier sang, their new singer was like "we created this song 10-15 years ago when blah blah blah."  No, the other three guys took part in creating those hit songs.  You didn't.

I understand the little annoyance, but in cases like these I can forgive the singer, they're a band, while playing live he's a spokeperson for the rest of the band, and the "band" as an "entity" wrote those song. No singer is gonna remark in an awkard way that they weren't part of the band.

Should James have pointed out in the Images and Words and Beyond tour that Mangini and Rudess weren't there for the album? we all know it anyway. I remember seeing Nightwish on their "Decades" tour, an excuse to celebrate 20 years and counting as a band, should have Floor Jensen said "Wow, these guys have been around since 1997.... nevermind me, I just came along for the last album"?

Again, I understand not liking when it happens..... but I totally understand why a current incarnation of the band is, well, the band and "we" is being used instead of "three out of five of us".
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ytserush on August 10, 2019, 06:52:22 PM

Same here.

As someone who wasn't much of fan of the first album, I couldn't talk myself into traveling 20 miles to see them when they came here.

:P :P

That's where I'm at except it was 50 miles for me. Seeing it live would be better than the album (As would a live recording.)

I expected my enjoyment level for that show would be better than A-Mob, but not as good as Winery Dogs.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Stadler on August 12, 2019, 07:13:23 AM
Funny thing, by coincidence, I was listening to Deep Purple live in Long Beach in 1976 (the Coverdale/Bolin/Hughes incarnation) and David introduced "Smoke..." by describing it as a song from an album we did in Montreaux...  and for some reason it sort of bugged me.

But as to the bigger picture, at least as far as Setlist.fm goes, I think I'm right here.  It's less about the deep fan and their intimate knowledge, as it is a more strictly formal database for those that don't have band art tattooed on their pectorals.  I know for me, when I went in and put in all my concerts, there were bands in the '80's that I had not remembered I saw, or didn't even know who they were, and it was helpful to have factually specific references to the songs.   A good example was the Dead; the band did a fair number of songs from both Garcia's and Weir's early to mid-70's solo records.   In both cases, the material was written largely by the same writers (Garcia/Hunter and Weir/Barlow) and several of the Dead members played on the records.  They were like Tom Petty solo records in that it was the Dead but Jerry/Bob got to call all the shots with no band democracy in play. 

If you buy the box sets of Dead albums, or any of the compilations, those Garcia/Weir songs are most often NOT included (side bar, they were done with other record companies as a way of generating cash for other Dead endeavors).   By ANY of the standards set out here, they should NOT be covers, but I value the clarity in order to become more familiar with the source material.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: JayOctavarium on August 12, 2019, 09:18:52 AM
But... but...

what if Porcupine Tree get back together, and they play a song off of Raven That Refused to Sing ??? ???
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: SwedishGoose on August 12, 2019, 09:34:54 AM
The Neal Morse Band playing Neal Morse songs....
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: gzarruk on August 12, 2019, 11:08:46 AM
The Neal Morse Band playing Neal Morse songs....

But changing the name from Neal Morse to Neal Morse Band was just a gimmick...
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Max Kuehnau on August 16, 2019, 04:41:07 AM
Back to the actual topic now: The second live preview piece has been released (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yi-sjqU86Ho&list=OLAK5uy_lhv_fXmOtZbWUWg7w-Vwv8akIQCMQeZ1A) and it's Labyrinth (with the string section)
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Lynxo on August 16, 2019, 05:40:11 AM
That's only the audio. This is the video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LcG-6cNwRF8&feature=youtu.be
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Max Kuehnau on August 16, 2019, 06:02:45 AM
That's only the audio. This is the video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LcG-6cNwRF8&feature=youtu.be
I know, I just wanted to post it already for those select few among us (myself not included, I'm neutral) who might not have wanted to wait :D. Anyway, may all these enjoy.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on August 16, 2019, 07:37:53 AM
That's only the audio. This is the video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LcG-6cNwRF8&feature=youtu.be

This is awesome  :metal :metal
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Adami on August 16, 2019, 08:29:11 AM
Yea that didn’t do much for me.

1. Orchestra was as close to pointless as you can get. If I didn’t physically see them (more often than not just sitting there) I wouldn’t know they were present.

2. Weird camera choices. Band is doing some cool? Show JSS dancing!

3 band sounds good.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: goo-goo on August 16, 2019, 08:42:42 AM
@Adami

Some of the editing reminded me of the Steve Harris effect in the Iron Maiden DVDs: changing shots every 3-5 seconds. If MP directed the film, I would be very surprised on why he would use this short shot thing. Also agree on your orchestra comment: feels unnecessary.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: JayOctavarium on August 16, 2019, 09:51:14 AM
Yea that didn’t do much for me.

1. Orchestra was as close to pointless as you can get. If I didn’t physically see them (more often than not just sitting there) I wouldn’t know they were present.

2. Weird camera choices. Band is doing some cool? Show JSS dancing!

3 band sounds good.

I agree with all 3
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Anguyen92 on August 16, 2019, 09:55:50 AM
Yeah, the band sounds great, that stated I'm having the same issues like in Breaking the Fourth Wall where if they brought out strings musicians and the likes, it's hard for me to find any distinction between them and the keyboardist.  Also, I don't think the crowd was mic'ed up when JSS wanted the crowd to go "whoa, oh oh!"  Either that, or they were a dead crowd.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on August 16, 2019, 10:04:46 AM
1. Orchestra was as close to pointless as you can get. If I didn’t physically see them (more often than not just sitting there) I wouldn’t know they were present.

Yea, this is true.  And definitely reminds me of DT's issues with using the orchestra.  I don't understand how this happens unless the whole thing is just a gimmick.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Anguyen92 on August 16, 2019, 10:16:28 AM
I think it comes down to finding a way that they can utilize an orchestra for things that a keyboardist couldn't pull off when it comes to strings sounds in the background.

When I saw Lindsey Stirling, last year, co-headline with Evanescence, they had an orchestra backing them the entire tour, it was really hard for me to piece the orchestra in the background since Lindsey plays the violin and she has a keyboardist as part of the back-up band.  On the opposite side of the spectrum, I can hear the orchestra during Evanescence's set, but I couldn't hear the guitars at all and whilst it was a solid performance, it was pretty darn dull where everyone, including the guitarists, was sitting and not really playing off or interacting with the crowd.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ReaperKK on August 16, 2019, 07:12:28 PM
The band was pretty good, JSS doesn't sound as bad he did in the trailer.

What's up with DSS, does he always look that disinterested?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on August 16, 2019, 08:03:17 PM
What's up with DSS, does he always look that disinterested?

yes
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: SystematicThought on August 16, 2019, 08:10:27 PM
What's up with DSS, does he always look that disinterested?
It's a rockstar thing, us normal folk wouldn't and shouldn't try to understand it. I'm gonna go back to flipping burgers now...
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: devieira73 on August 19, 2019, 11:25:55 AM
On SoA Facebook:
SONS OF APOLLO - MMXX North American Tour Dates
w Special Guest Tony MacAlpine:

• Fri Jan 24th - Pomona, CA - The Glass House
https://bit.ly/2H8kNxY

• Sat Jan 25th - Los Angeles, CA - The Roxy
https://bit.ly/2H8aLNb

• Sun Jan 26th - San Francisco, CA - The Fillmore
https://bit.ly/31FYAPj

• Tues Jan 28th - Salt Lake City, UT - The State Room
https://bit.ly/31D8P7e

• Wed Jan 29th - Denver, CO - The Oriental Theater
https://bit.ly/2Z5QC4s

• Fri Jan 31st - St Charles, IL - Arcada Theater
https://bit.ly/2TCz0bj

• Sat Feb 1st - Battle Creek, MI - The Music Factory
https://bit.ly/31IwXVQ

• Sun Feb 2nd - Toronto, ON - Mod Club
https://bit.ly/2Z8OuJ8

• Mon Feb 3rd - Montreal, QC - Corona Theater
https://bit.ly/2KF9eyU

• Wed Feb 5th - Boston, MA - Paradise Rock Club
https://bit.ly/2N2rMMx

• Thurs Feb 6th - New York, NY - Gramercy Theater
https://livemu.sc/2YUUoi2

• Fri Feb 7th - Jim Thorpe, PA - Penn’s Peak
https://bit.ly/30bEjRo

• Sat Feb 8th - Englewood, NJ - Bergen Performing Arts Center
https://bit.ly/31MKyM7

Tix On Sale: Wednesday August 21st @ 12PM LOCAL TIME
(Except NJ Show which is NOW AVAILABLE)
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: JayOctavarium on August 19, 2019, 11:34:50 AM
They'll be in LA the week after NAMM... Interesting. 

Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: The Walrus on August 19, 2019, 11:39:30 AM
Is Mike incapable of booking a different venue in Illinois? WTF? Every time he comes through regardless of band it's always the Arcada in St. Charles. And it's on my birthday too lol
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ProfessorPeart on August 19, 2019, 12:11:18 PM
Is Mike incapable of booking a different venue in Illinois? WTF? Every time he comes through regardless of band it's always the Arcada in St. Charles. And it's on my birthday too lol

It's to accommodate me. It's nice only having to drive 30 minutes for a show.  ;D

That, and it's probably the nicest venue he can get for his current bands. He seems to have really struck up a relationship with Ron. The downside is the prices that Ron loves to charge.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Lonk on August 19, 2019, 12:14:44 PM
Gramercy Theater sucks but I guess is worth going.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on August 19, 2019, 12:18:56 PM
Never heard of that NJ venue, but a saturday night and it's actually close to where I work.  I think I'd rather go to Gramercy but that's a Thursday so maybe I'll just do that Saturday show.  Either way, I don't expect it to sell out so I'll decide closer to February which show I'll go to.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Anguyen92 on August 19, 2019, 12:50:13 PM
I don't know which is closer to me.  LA or Pomona.  Ok, I just did a quick check.  Pomona is closer.  On a Friday as well.  I'll think it over.  I did like Portnoy and Sheehan when Winery Dogs came to Anaheim, which is the city next door to where I live, last May.  Don't know if I want to go much further for SOA.  I will think about it.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Stadler on August 19, 2019, 12:50:54 PM
Unless Cram can convince me to meet him in the City, that's looking like a hard pass from me unless/until more dates are added.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: The Walrus on August 19, 2019, 12:53:50 PM
I'm gonna go just to get Forest Whitaker-eye hammered and give Derek the stinkeye all night
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Podaar on August 19, 2019, 12:54:35 PM
 
I'm gonna go just to get Forest Whitaker-eye hammered and give Derek the stinkeye all night

:lol
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on August 19, 2019, 12:59:10 PM
 :lol

Unless Cram can convince me to meet him in the City, that's looking like a hard pass from me unless/until more dates are added.

Let me know if it's still an option come January, I would like to see them and hope to catch one of the two local shows, but it's not a concert I am throwing down money on yet and planning out.  Also, I hope the new album is already out by then, that might play a role as well.  Hell if it were released and I loved it, I could see myself doing both shows.  But it's all wait and see for me.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Lonk on August 19, 2019, 01:00:02 PM
Never heard of that NJ venue, but a saturday night and it's actually close to where I work.  I think I'd rather go to Gramercy but that's a Thursday so maybe I'll just do that Saturday show.  Either way, I don't expect it to sell out so I'll decide closer to February which show I'll go to.

I just looked it up and it looks better than Gramercy and it's a shorter commute (25 minutes driving instead of 40 minutes on the train). I think I might go to that one but will deff wait out to buy the ticket.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on August 19, 2019, 01:07:19 PM
Never heard of that NJ venue, but a saturday night and it's actually close to where I work.  I think I'd rather go to Gramercy but that's a Thursday so maybe I'll just do that Saturday show.  Either way, I don't expect it to sell out so I'll decide closer to February which show I'll go to.

I just looked it up and it looks better than Gramercy and it's a shorter commute (25 minutes driving instead of 40 minutes on the train). I think I might go to that one but will deff wait out to buy the ticket.

I don't think I like either venue (Bergen PAC from the pictures, Gramercy from experience) but I feel like I'd enjoy the smaller GA vibe from the Gramercy than a seated small theater. That's just me though. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Stadler on August 19, 2019, 01:26:03 PM
:lol

Unless Cram can convince me to meet him in the City, that's looking like a hard pass from me unless/until more dates are added.

Let me know if it's still an option come January, I would like to see them and hope to catch one of the two local shows, but it's not a concert I am throwing down money on yet and planning out.  Also, I hope the new album is already out by then, that might play a role as well.  Hell if it were released and I loved it, I could see myself doing both shows.  But it's all wait and see for me.

That's a perfect plan; by the way, rather see that show in a GA club than a seated theater too.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Lonk on August 19, 2019, 02:15:02 PM
I've seen some good bands sounding really bad at Gramercy because the sound is just that bad in the venue. Is not surprising its run by the same people that run Irving Plaza (Another poorly managed venue). I try to avoid those as much as I can.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on August 19, 2019, 02:23:33 PM
I've seen some good bands sounding really bad at Gramercy because the sound is just that bad in the venue. Is not surprising its run by the same people that run Irving Plaza (Another poorly managed venue). I try to avoid those as much as I can.

I last saw Alestorm and Gloryhammer at Gramercy a year ago, awesome show but way too small for that show.  Sold out and you couldn't move.  It was probably a fire hazard.  Very uncomfortable although that show was a lot of fun.  Irving isn't much better just bigger.  I dont recall sound issues but being a small place, the sound isn't going to be that great generally, compared to a proper theater.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: axeman90210 on August 19, 2019, 03:52:11 PM
I'll very likely be at the Gramercy show.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bosk1 on August 19, 2019, 03:59:48 PM
I may see them IF there is a new album and they do some later dates/locations that are more convenient.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: goo-goo on August 19, 2019, 05:34:51 PM
I may see them IF there is a new album and they do some later dates/locations that are more convenient.

I believe the new album is slated for a January 2020 release, hence this short tour.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ReaperKK on August 19, 2019, 05:39:48 PM
I'd go if he was coming through town but no NC dates.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: MinistroRaven on August 19, 2019, 09:13:22 PM
(https://i.ibb.co/sFZRLBq/40-E4-AAB6-4-A3-E-4-F2-A-A2-A8-0-CC27411-FF9-C.jpg) (https://ibb.co/mH3TQx4)
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Adami on August 19, 2019, 09:16:53 PM
Well that’s an awful sign.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: SystematicThought on August 19, 2019, 10:35:14 PM
But I thought they were the new kings of Prog? Put Dream Theater out of business....

Edit: I'm joking with the above comment, even if they are comments that Derek has made (not the putting DT out of business, but he's kind of alluded to it). I do feel bad for JSS, Bumblefoot, and Sheehan and to a degree Mike if it doesn't work out here in America. They're all really likable guys and I wish the best for them. At the end of the day, I don't understand why it isn't clicking here, because I don't think it has to do with Derek and his horrible promotion techniques. I thought they'd find some sort of foundation here...every other MP project has to a degree. Why not this one?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Madman Shepherd on August 19, 2019, 11:52:29 PM
Well that’s an awful sign.

Yeah. Actually surprised how blunt he is. Despite the claims that he is an open book, he certainly is more calculated and closed off than he (and others) admits. Usually, he isn't *this* open.

I think I remember a bunch of people predicting that there would not be more than two albums.

It seems that may very well be true.

Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ReaperKK on August 20, 2019, 05:24:50 AM
As much as I think Derek is an asshat and dislike him I'm still bummed for the other three.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on August 20, 2019, 06:15:52 AM
Let's see, Bumblefoot is in Asia now, JSS has a new Queen tribute thing as well as his own band, MP even is forming another band now... no one probably wants to work with DS.  The writing is on the wall here.

Also, last US tour how many of us went to shows in half full or less venues?  They played PLaystation Theater in NYC last year, 2.1k capactity (although it was closed in the back, so maybe 1.5k for that show capacity, 1/3 filled maybe.) This time around Gramercy Theater is only 500 capacity.  They probably do need to sell well to continue to make this work.  That's the same venue that Mike plays with all the rest of his bands so I don't think playing there alone should stop the band, but they probably do need to show to promoters they can get 500 in NYC to show up.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Orbert on August 20, 2019, 06:34:37 AM
Let's see, Bumblefoot is in Asia now, JSS has a new Queen tribute thing as well as his own band, MP even is forming another band now... no one probably wants to work with DS.  The writing is on the wall here.

Maybe.  I mean, that's entirely possible IMO, but also could just be how things worked out.  No one is "just" in a band anymore these days.  You're in a band, plus you have your solo stuff, plus you're in this other project that gets together every couple of years, plus...

So maybe they'd all rather do anything except something with Derek, but it sounds like MP just being blunt.  SoA can't fill venues in the U.S.  And if they can't, promoters won't touch them and there won't be any more U.S. tours.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: The Walrus on August 20, 2019, 06:37:24 AM
They aren't even trying to acquire fans outside "the circle" though.  Tony Mac? Great, I wonder how many in the audience already know him well. They need support that will bring a different crowd in, not the same circle of fans that see these closely related artists.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on August 20, 2019, 06:57:55 AM
They aren't even trying to acquire fans outside "the circle" though.  Tony Mac? Great, I wonder how many in the audience already know him well. They need support that will bring a different crowd in, not the same circle of fans that see these closely related artists.

I wonder if they just can't get any better.  They need to be the main act with low paid support.  Personally, I think they should be taking every opportunity to tour and even open for bigger bands, even bands outside the prog genre.  You are sooo correct that they aren't going to win fans over by playing to the same crowds.  Personally, I think what would work the best for them is to get onto one of those huge summer tours as the opener, like they might be able to win over people who would NEVER hear of them opening for Alice Cooper and Halestorm instead of Motionless in White, or how about be the 4th band in the Breaking Benjamin/Chevelle/Three Days Grace tour (I think the 4th band was Dorothy).  Yea that music isn't exactly the same, but you get exposure and opportunity.  I can guarantee that Bumblefoot would win over those crowds. Like That's how younger bands get exposure, but...

No one is "just" in a band anymore these days.  You're in a band, plus you have your solo stuff, plus you're in this other project that gets together every couple of years

That makes it incredibly difficult to focus on one band and have them grow. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: The Walrus on August 20, 2019, 07:08:56 AM
Totally agree, cram. And I get it, prog metal is not an easy sell, and it's probably not easy for them to swallow their pride at their ages and open for other bands, but that's what you gotta do when you make a new band, even a supergroup.

I really do think they should have waited on the blu-ray; they shot their load before they had a load to shoot. Two albums would have been the perfect amount of material for a Blu-ray but they couldn't wait for some reason.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on August 20, 2019, 07:11:36 AM
Totally agree, cram. And I get it, prog metal is not an easy sell, and it's probably not easy for them to swallow their pride at their ages and open for other bands, but that's what you gotta do when you make a new band, even a supergroup.

I really do think they should have waited on the blu-ray; they shot their load before they had a load to shoot. Two albums would have been the perfect amount of material for a Blu-ray but they couldn't wait for some reason.

Seems like they might have been worried they wouldn't get the opportunity again.  If the album flops and tour bombs, the DVD would never happen. 

Also, SOA aren't that proggy to be the hard sell to a metal/hard rock audience IMO.  I think they'd do really well because of how good and impressive they are as performers.  I truly think they could win over rock, not prog, fans if they put themselves in front of them. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: The Walrus on August 20, 2019, 07:21:34 AM
Totally agree, cram. And I get it, prog metal is not an easy sell, and it's probably not easy for them to swallow their pride at their ages and open for other bands, but that's what you gotta do when you make a new band, even a supergroup.

I really do think they should have waited on the blu-ray; they shot their load before they had a load to shoot. Two albums would have been the perfect amount of material for a Blu-ray but they couldn't wait for some reason.

Seems like they might have been worried they wouldn't get the opportunity again.  If the album flops and tour bombs, the DVD would never happen. 

Also, SOA aren't that proggy to be the hard sell to a metal/hard rock audience IMO.  I think they'd do really well because of how good and impressive they are as performers.  I truly think they could win over rock, not prog, fans if they put themselves in front of them.

I think they could, but I think it's a hard sell. Aging rock stars playing niche prog-ish rock/metal is such a specific taste. It really doesn't help that it seems like MP caters basically just to the MP crowd these days with the new stuff that comes out - probably spreads himself too thin and can't worry too much about reaching out - and he plays the same venues to boot.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: goo-goo on August 20, 2019, 07:30:51 AM
Let's see, Bumblefoot is in Asia now, JSS has a new Queen tribute thing as well as his own band, MP even is forming another band now... no one probably wants to work with DS.  The writing is on the wall here.


DS does a lot of session work. There's a few rumors out there about a Planet X reunion and also possibly some Black Country Communion. I do think SoA will continue after this album and only tour the US in the major markets like the ones in this short January run. SoA will probably tour Europe for at least a month and that's where the money is.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on August 20, 2019, 07:33:40 AM
I just see people sooo impressed sometimes by music at shows I go to that well, isnt that impressive as SOA in terms of musicianship and showmanship, I think people would be surprised with them coming out being an unknown doing a 6 song set with like:

God of the Sun
Signs of the Time
Divine Addiction
Alive
Lines in the Sand
Coming Home

They'd leave with more new fans than headlining Gramercy Theater to people who already know them.

Let's see, Bumblefoot is in Asia now, JSS has a new Queen tribute thing as well as his own band, MP even is forming another band now... no one probably wants to work with DS.  The writing is on the wall here.


DS does a lot of session work. There's a few rumors out there about a Planet X reunion and also possibly some Black Country Communion. I do think SoA will continue after this album and only tour the US in the major markets like the ones in this short January run. SoA will probably tour Europe for at least a month and that's where the money is.

My comment was mostly a joke, I'm sure he's got work but I just have no interest in following him so I am not up to date with his work.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: KevShmev on August 20, 2019, 07:42:14 AM
Yeah, the musicianship is there, but are the songs? I would say no. The songs aren't bad, but for me they were all just kind of there.  The singer not having an engaging voice prevented them from having vocal hooks for me.  And there is so much music nowadays, and easy access to most of it, that you really have to stand out in some way to make a dent, and I just don't see where this band can make that dent.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: The Walrus on August 20, 2019, 07:44:52 AM
(https://i.postimg.cc/g08ztgWB/sdfa.png)

You can tell the fanbase isn't very big when Mike is suggesting people travel to multiple cities to see them
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Lonk on August 20, 2019, 07:50:14 AM
Man I love MP, and I appreciate his engagement with fans but sometimes he just needs to stay shut and not say a thing.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Stadler on August 20, 2019, 08:05:09 AM
Personally, I think they should be taking every opportunity to tour and even open for bigger bands, even bands outside the prog genre. 

I was going to write this very thing.  Put them on the Maiden tour or something similar (like Rival Sons did with Sabbath).   Or team up with another act (like Def Leppard and Journey, Def Leppard and Kiss, Def Leppard and...).   

I think the "formula" is starting to be tapped out. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bosk1 on August 20, 2019, 08:22:18 AM
I have mixed feelings about Mike saying what he said.  I mean, it is 100% accurate.  And music fans who have any knowledge about how touring works would understand that reality.  But I think it's still one of those things that you just don't say out loud, you know?  It's one thing for a hungry young band to try to whip up a loyal, rabid fanbase and try to get them to come to every single show.  But for a band that, unfortunately is just one of many bands out there (and I don't mean that to be a shot at them at all), with an older fanbase, I think those kinds of comments are actually a turnoff. 

Maybe I'm just not the "typical" fan.  But speaking for myself, here's how I feel about seeing them:  I really enjoyed the first album, to the point that I still spin it fairly regularly.  I don't really have ANYTHING negative to say about any of it.  And notwithstanding some of the juvenile stage banter, I thought they put on a great show, and I enjoyed seeing them live as well.  That being said, as I mentioned above, I do not feel any strong desire to see them again unless (1) they are bringing something new to the table (i.e. new music) AND (2) it is convenient and affordable.  I'm not traveling an hour or two to see them.  I'm just not.  There are a few bands that I would do that for, and as much as I enjoyed the first SOA album, they don't make the cut. 

That being said, if as was suggested above, they got booked to a tour with another band I was interested in, that might change things.  Even if Band A might not get me to travel, and Band B also might not get me to travel, a show with Band A + Band B might do it because that's a better value for my time. 

Again, not sure how many others feel similarly, but that is where I am.  I wish these guys the best.  But for me personally, if their continued success depends on me personally giving them more time and money than I am presently inclined to give them, then all I can say is: Sorry, guys; I guess I'm just not as big a fan of this project as you would like me to be.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on August 20, 2019, 08:29:58 AM
Ya know what would work well?  When Avenged Sevenfold release their new album and tour, if they had tour support from SOA (even as third on the bill).  I don't know what MP's relationship with those guys is like anymore, but I think for some bands to get picked up on those tours, they need to have good relationships.  Last summer Pop Evil opened for Poison and Cheap Trick.  I had never heard of them, they are a newer hard rock band so not old school like the others, yet they opened.  And guess what, the singer of Pop Evil comes out for the encore to sing with Poison.  Seems like him and Bret Michaels are buddy buddy.  That's what it takes sometimes too. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bosk1 on August 20, 2019, 08:33:18 AM
I agree with all that.  Hard to say whether that isn't something they are will to do, or whether the opportunity just hasn't presented itself.  But I agree that, at least one the surface, that seems like the smartest move.  But who knows?  Maybe they looked into it (and maybe still are), and for various reasons, nothing materialized.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: The Walrus on August 20, 2019, 08:33:57 AM
Bosk, you can at least donate to their kickstarter for their covers EP next fall
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: emtee on August 20, 2019, 09:59:20 AM
Sounds like a make or break scenario for them.

But you know MP, he already has another band lined up
in the cue. Thrash metal.

It's kind of a bummer for me since I was such a huge
fan of his for so many years. Nowadays I just can't
seem to connect with any of his projects in the same
way I did when he was in DT.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Ben_Jamin on August 20, 2019, 10:31:16 AM
That comes off as desperate. All MP had to was keep shut and let the tickets at least sell for a couple months.

If they were coming here then I would go because they're good live. Too big stage set up for one venue, and not known enough to sell the next bigger venue.

To me it feels as though all of MP's projects are beginning to clash.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Madman Shepherd on August 20, 2019, 10:36:13 AM
(https://i.postimg.cc/g08ztgWB/sdfa.png)

You can tell the fanbase isn't very big when Mike is suggesting people travel to multiple cities to see them

Maybe he should change the setlist from city to city  :lol
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: RodrigoAltaf on August 20, 2019, 10:53:04 AM
Didn't they do a run on very small venues when the first album came out and then had another leg with many more shows later in the year?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on August 20, 2019, 10:56:46 AM
Didn't they do a run on very small venues when the first album came out and then had another leg with many more shows later in the year?

Yes
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Max Kuehnau on August 20, 2019, 11:07:33 AM
I have an opinion on SOA that may be an odd one: The DT pieces they play on the live album are played a lot more powerfully than DT played them 22 years ago
(I listened here: https://www.nuclearblast.de/de/produkte/tontraeger/cd/3cd-digi/sons-of-apollo-live-with-the-plovdiv-psychotic-symphony.html )
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bosk1 on August 20, 2019, 11:19:06 AM
I'm not so sure on LITS.  But I agree on Just Let Me Breathe (although the version on LSFNY definitely isn't bad by any stretch).
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: TAC on August 20, 2019, 11:24:04 AM
I thought the '05 version of JLMB rocked pretty good.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Max Kuehnau on August 20, 2019, 11:26:02 AM
I thought the '05 version of JLMB rocked pretty good.
where was that from? Not Score I'm sure
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: TAC on August 20, 2019, 11:33:14 AM
I thought the '05 version of JLMB rocked pretty good.
where was that from? Not Score I'm sure

From the millions of boots from that tour.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Max Kuehnau on August 20, 2019, 12:19:06 PM
I thought the '05 version of JLMB rocked pretty good.
where was that from? Not Score I'm sure

From the millions of boots from that tour.
ah ok, I neither own nor collect DT bootlegs, so I couldn't have known. Either way, I'm open enough to listen to the live album, seems that those who reviewed it already seem to love it a lot.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Ben_Jamin on August 20, 2019, 05:50:27 PM
I remember Just Let Me Breathe was awesome at Gigantour one that actually remember from My first DT show.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: max_security on August 20, 2019, 06:24:39 PM
Tony MacAlpine is the opening act on this mini-tour , not coming anywhere close to me though. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: MinistroRaven on August 20, 2019, 07:46:04 PM
(https://i.postimg.cc/g08ztgWB/sdfa.png)

You can tell the fanbase isn't very big when Mike is suggesting people travel to multiple cities to see them

Maybe he should change the setlist from city to city  :lol

Not a good Sign...

...of the Times
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ReaperKK on August 20, 2019, 08:30:37 PM
Not good indeed, welp I heard MP has 86 other bands
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Madman Shepherd on August 21, 2019, 05:30:21 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eTvp1N7m7_Q&feature=youtu.be&fbclid=IwAR2bQ3v0Sa2nKhdxJ3ynmSF42GmuklVRqCPxc5-JR6NjLDeyupOi4XOD9AE

New trailer. Actually makes me a little more excited. I'm surprised they put a few moments of Jeff struggling in the trailer but also a few other moments where he sounds pretty good.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Adami on August 21, 2019, 05:51:09 PM
Yea.....I don't like how Jeff sounds at this show. Maybe it's just a bad night, but his range seems to be about 3/4 what it needs to be.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Ben_Jamin on August 22, 2019, 01:44:05 AM
Yea.....I don't like how Jeff sounds at this show. Maybe it's just a bad night, but his range seems to be about 3/4 what it needs to be.

He's like JLB....

Nah. But, JLB's and JSS's voices can't be captured on audio.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on August 22, 2019, 06:31:36 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eTvp1N7m7_Q&feature=youtu.be&fbclid=IwAR2bQ3v0Sa2nKhdxJ3ynmSF42GmuklVRqCPxc5-JR6NjLDeyupOi4XOD9AE

New trailer. Actually makes me a little more excited. I'm surprised they put a few moments of Jeff struggling in the trailer but also a few other moments where he sounds pretty good.

I like how MP talked about this coming from management who had done all the other bands similar events there and that all those other bands (like Devin Townsend and Opeth) they performed full albums and special sets because they had so much material, but with only one album they decided to do the cover route.  It makes sense even as odd as it is to have a live album from them so quick, but it was an opportunity they seized.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: MirrorMask on August 22, 2019, 06:35:53 AM
Yeah, while I agree that, on general terms, a double live album after a band is just born is a bit silly, I don't fault them in the least for not having passed up on the offer to play in a great venue with an orchestra.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Grappler on August 22, 2019, 06:37:30 AM
I ordered this...wanted the Blu Ray, which seemed to only come in the 5-disc set (3 CD, DVD, Blu Ray).  It was only $30-ish on Amazon, so it's not that bad. 

Regardless of how Jeff might sound or the mix, I didn't get to see them play live and at least want a live release from them since I still really enjoy the studio album.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Max Kuehnau on August 22, 2019, 06:49:25 AM
Keep in mind though that only the editions containing the 3 CDs feature the entire concert. The Bluray/DVDs do not, they omit 2 or 3 (not sure right now)
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: devieira73 on August 22, 2019, 07:01:37 AM
I ordered this...wanted the Blu Ray, which seemed to only come in the 5-disc set (3 CD, DVD, Blu Ray).  It was only $30-ish on Amazon, so it's not that bad. 

Regardless of how Jeff might sound or the mix, I didn't get to see them play live and at least want a live release from them since I still really enjoy the studio album.
On Burning Shed, you can buy only the BD👍
https://burningshed.com/sons-of-apollo_live-with-the-plovdiv-psychotic-symphony_blu-ray?filter_name=Sons%20of%20apollo&filter_sub_category=true
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: goo-goo on August 22, 2019, 07:42:52 AM
Blu ray only from a US store

https://www.lasercd.com/dvd/live-plovdiv-psychotic-symphony-blu-ray-preorder
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Grappler on August 22, 2019, 07:58:49 AM
Thanks for the links.  I'm fine with the 5-disc set, since it will have the full audio show.  I had to order some stuff from Amazon anyways, so I just tacked this on as well.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on August 22, 2019, 08:00:07 AM
I wish there was a CD/BR only combo, adding the DVD in there just seems overkill, who needs both?  Because of that, I may just get the blu-ray standalone.  I'd like the CDs, but I'm more into the live videos and really want the blu-ray, not the DVD.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Max Kuehnau on August 22, 2019, 09:57:52 AM
I wish there was a CD/BR only combo, adding the DVD in there just seems overkill, who needs both?  Because of that, I may just get the blu-ray standalone.  I'd like the CDs, but I'm more into the live videos and really want the blu-ray, not the DVD.
the Bluray is shortened by two pieces though (Comfy Numb and Dream On), so you'll lose about 15 minutes. Just so you know. (apparently there were licensing issues for the video of the concert, not the audio, which is why the CDs feature the entire show. Please don't ask me why,I don't know why, I'm just paraphrasing.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on August 22, 2019, 10:01:03 AM
Yea, but I can always stream that if I want to hear it, I don't really find that something I need.  What I really want is the full video in full HD and surround sound, sucks they couldn't get those on video.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: jadiggerdt on August 30, 2019, 12:38:20 AM
Now I have listen through the live record a couple of times and pity to say it but was Soto sick or doesnt he simply  manage high parties.
Unfortunately, the Sons material is too bad and cover versions give me nothing sadly. Then I rather see Brit Floyd If i  absolutely must watch a cover PF show. 3/6
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Nekov on August 30, 2019, 05:59:34 AM
Now I have listen through the live record a couple of times and pity to say it but was Soto sick or doesnt he simply  manage high parties.

JSS has probably been at a lot of those and he looks like a guy who knows how to manage them  ;)
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Madman Shepherd on August 30, 2019, 06:25:52 AM
Looks like my amazon order is delayed. 3rd or 4th time they've done this with a new release. Not happy, especially as I see other are getting their sets.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: jadiggerdt on August 30, 2019, 06:52:53 AM
Now I have listen through the live record a couple of times and pity to say it but was Soto sick or doesnt he simply  manage high parties.

JSS has probably been at a lot of those and he looks like a guy who knows how to manage them  ;)

Ehh ::) : :metal
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Grappler on August 30, 2019, 07:36:45 AM
The full audio show is up on YouTube:  https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_kfvTwY9K2SI2cvwrpZ1Z3i1HFzCZcYXBo

I listened to the first two tracks so far, and it's good.  I agree with Cram in this thread - it's a live show.  It may not be perfect, so be it.  The band sounds fine.  The crowd is lower in the mix and barely audible at times, but that isn't uniquie to this release and I've heard it in other live releases.  It does seem a little embarrassing though when Jeff is asking the crowd to sing along and you hear very little in response.   :lol  Then at times, the crowd noise is very audible when the band isn't playing or at the end of a song...maybe they're just lost in the mix when the band is playing.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bosk1 on August 30, 2019, 07:56:35 AM
I'm guessing the crowd just wasn't mic'd, and when you hear the crowd roar at the end of a song, it's just canned crowd noise added in post production.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Grappler on August 30, 2019, 08:00:50 AM
I'm guessing the crowd just wasn't mic'd, and when you hear the crowd roar at the end of a song, it's just canned crowd noise added in post production.

Maybe.  There is definitely crowd noise throughout the recording.  I'm hearing the crowd during Billy's bass solo.  It could be that it's just pushed lower during some parts and higher during others.

I think this is the case.  In God of the Sun, Jeff asks the crowd to sing along, and the crowd's singing isn't very loud with all of the other instruments playing as well.   In Jeff's solo spot, the crowd noise is pumped up with him having the crowd sing along. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bosk1 on August 30, 2019, 08:07:22 AM
Could be.  It just seems odd that they wouldn't have brought up the crowd noise during those parts where you would expect a crowd response.  Seems like that would be something that would be easier to miss if someone was just skipping through to song breaks to add boosted crowd noise vs. just controlling the volume throughout.  But I'm only guessing.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Adami on August 30, 2019, 08:11:07 AM
Could have been a quiet crowd.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: goo-goo on August 30, 2019, 08:12:03 AM
Well, the crowd was a bit far off the stage..That's how the Plovid Amphitheater is.

(http://programata.bg/img/gallery/place_1825.jpg)
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Anxiety35 on August 30, 2019, 09:43:33 AM
One of my beefs with live releases is that crowd noise is often brought way up in the mix or artificially inserted from another source. Kind of like audience laughter in a TV show.

The worst offender of this is a band called Stuck Mojo. They did a live album called HVY1 and you can tell the crowd noise is fake because it loops or repeats in different parts of the live album. They used the same audio loop in Fozzy's debut album on the first track. The guitarist and drummer for Stuck Mojo are in Fozzy.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Stadler on August 30, 2019, 10:42:28 AM
I kind of hate that; it's why I'm such a fan of the Dead releases lately.  All full shows (or close enough) and merely a taped document of what went down that night.  Clams and all, heckles and all, dead silence and all.   You can mock the Dead for a lot of things - they're probably the paradigm of a "sold" image at this point, since they are so far from the hippie ideal of the late 60's Haight - but "musical authenticity" isn't one of them.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bosk1 on August 30, 2019, 10:57:35 AM
...you can tell the crowd noise is fake because it loops or repeats in different parts of the live album.

Yeah, I've heard that criticism of a lot of live albums, including a couple of DTs' releases.  I have never paid enough attention to the crowd noise to notice it.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Adami on August 30, 2019, 11:30:32 AM
...you can tell the crowd noise is fake because it loops or repeats in different parts of the live album.

Yeah, I've heard that criticism of a lot of live albums, including a couple of DTs' releases.  I have never paid enough attention to the crowd noise to notice it.

Were you focusing on the music and performance?



Nerd.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on August 30, 2019, 11:42:30 AM
 :lol I've seen those claims here plenty of times and don't deny them, my ears don't notice unless I really try. I know others have more sensitive ears and that stuff bothers them though, I get it, I'd rather them not loop the crowd noises and fake it.  If it's not there, it's not there. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Learning2Live on August 30, 2019, 05:57:54 PM
Live at Luna Park is borderline infuriating to me because of this. I can't un-hear the crowd loop anymore whenever I pull that album out, which unfortunately isn't very often for me. Seems like a stupid reason to not listen to it I know, but it just interferes with my overall enjoyment of that album.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Anguyen92 on August 30, 2019, 07:01:27 PM
^^ Nahhh, it's not a stupid reason to not listen to Live at Luna Park.  You think for a show in South America, I would expect the crowd there to be almost as ampted as Rush in Rio or Iron Maiden's Rock in Rio, and I feel like that didn't happen there and if it did, it wasn't as well mixed.   I did feel like the crowd was better mixed in Breaking the Fourth Wall (which apparently, I hear around here that they also added some post-production effects to that as well?).
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: TAC on August 30, 2019, 07:06:32 PM
LALP simply is not a good live album. It literally sounds like the entire thing was done in the studio with a crowd dubbed in. BTFW might actually be worse.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: The Walrus on August 30, 2019, 07:29:23 PM
LALP simply is not a good live album. It literally sounds like the entire thing was done in the studio with a crowd dubbed in. BTFW might actually be worse.

Gotta agree with this. I like the production values of the two but maaan they don't feel live at all
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: TAC on August 30, 2019, 07:31:37 PM
The boot to the BTFW show is awesome.

Like James not remembering Erin's name, and thanking the "Boston" college of music. :facepalm: :lol
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: KevShmev on August 30, 2019, 08:07:37 PM
No one should ever thank a Boston anything. :P
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Architeuthis on August 30, 2019, 08:37:54 PM
No one should ever thank a Boston anything. :P
Unless it's Tom Scholz..  :coolio
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Max Kuehnau on August 31, 2019, 12:39:55 AM
LALP simply is not a good live album. It literally sounds like the entire thing was done in the studio with a crowd dubbed in. BTFW might actually be worse.

Gotta agree with this. I like the production values of the two but maaan they don't feel live at all
the notes are good though, that's what matters to me and so I listen to both of them regularly
Back to the topic at hand: I like how the live recording preserves some of the dynamics IMHO (which is not a given nowadays) and I'm sure that the guys had a good time that evening. (in that nothing is ever sounding "forced" in any way, in case you see what I mean) One thing I absolutely didn't take to kindly at all was The Show Must Go On. There only was one Freddie.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: KevShmev on August 31, 2019, 06:37:18 AM
No one should ever thank a Boston anything. :P
Unless it's Tom Scholz..  :coolio

Good point. :tup :tup
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: faizoff on August 31, 2019, 09:18:10 AM
I listened to the first track on Google Play Music and the recording sounds very muted, does anyone know if that is how the sound quality is for the blu-ray as well? I mean I don't care about audience noise or lack thereof and if it's piped in or not. I pay more attention to the instruments and if they are mixed in well.

I imagine the bluray to have more depth and meat in the audio track.
I can't find any technical details on the streams, does anyone have the bluray and care to chime in?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ytserush on August 31, 2019, 11:52:51 AM
No one should ever thank a Boston anything. :P
Unless it's Tom Scholz..  :coolio

Or Robert Gordon Orr......
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ytserush on August 31, 2019, 11:56:11 AM
Almost wondering if I should get the CD and DVD separately. I don't think I need an art book from this band. The level of interest just isn't there.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Max Kuehnau on August 31, 2019, 12:05:03 PM
Almost wondering if I should get the CD and DVD separately. I don't think I need an art book from this band. The level of interest just isn't there.
I'd say yes go get the CD/DVD version, because it features the entire show on the CDs. (in case you want to listen to the entire show that is)
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ytserush on August 31, 2019, 12:21:11 PM
Almost wondering if I should get the CD and DVD separately. I don't think I need an art book from this band. The level of interest just isn't there.
I'd say yes go get the CD/DVD version, because it features the entire show on the CDs. (in case you want to listen to the entire show that is)

Losing the covers (especially those covers) doesn't really bother me like it might to some others.

 I just want something basic to hear and watch as the mood strikes.  Have to assume it's better than the studio album which I've not pulled off of the shelf in almost a year.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Max Kuehnau on August 31, 2019, 12:24:15 PM
Almost wondering if I should get the CD and DVD separately. I don't think I need an art book from this band. The level of interest just isn't there.
I'd say yes go get the CD/DVD version, because it features the entire show on the CDs. (in case you want to listen to the entire show that is)

Losing the covers (especially those covers) doesn't really bother me like it might to some others.

 I just want something basic to hear and watch as the mood strikes.  Have to assume it's better than the studio album which I've not pulled off of the shelf in almost a year.
I like to think it is better than the studio album (by quite a considerable margin if I may say so myself, having only listened to the studio album once. The live album is a lot more "vibrant", if that word is a good descriptor)
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Lowdz on September 01, 2019, 11:18:29 AM
Not had chance to watch the full thing yet with any great volume but I played the covers on the blu Ray. I liked what I heard but the guitar and vocals are mixed a bit low for me.

I’m a fan of the album so quite looking forward to seeing the whole thing.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Max Kuehnau on September 01, 2019, 11:20:20 AM
Not had chance to watch the full thing yet with any great volume but I played the covers on the blu Ray. I liked what I heard but the guitar and vocals are mixed a bit low for me.

I’m a fan of the album so quite looking forward to seeing the whole thing.
I'm sure you'll enjoy yourself
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Evermind on September 01, 2019, 11:22:02 AM
Not had chance to watch the full thing yet with any great volume but I played the covers on the blu Ray. I liked what I heard but the guitar and vocals are mixed a bit low for me.

I’m a fan of the album so quite looking forward to seeing the whole thing.
I'm sure you'll enjoy yourself

I'm also sure he will. What about Sons of Apollo though?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Madman Shepherd on September 02, 2019, 10:34:14 AM
Delivery delayed another week. My friend didn't preorder and new orders are saying they will be shipped in one month. What the hell is going on?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ytserush on September 02, 2019, 11:36:57 AM
Delivery delayed another week. My friend didn't preorder and new orders are saying they will be shipped in one month. What the hell is going on?

Isn't that the modus operandi for Amazon these days?  I don't bother with ordering music from them any more since it doesn't seem to be a priority.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: JayOctavarium on September 02, 2019, 11:52:48 AM
Delivery delayed another week. My friend didn't preorder and new orders are saying they will be shipped in one month. What the hell is going on?

Isn't that the modus operandi for Amazon these days?  I don't bother with ordering music from them any more since it doesn't seem to be a priority.

I remember when I'd order things on Amazon and it would arrive a day or 2 before the release date.


Those were good times.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ProfessorPeart on September 02, 2019, 11:57:03 AM
Amazon and Inside Out seem to have issues. I pre-order lots of music from Amazon and I routinely run into issues with Inside Out pre-orders. Not sure what the deal is with that.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Adami on September 02, 2019, 11:59:07 AM
Amazon said delivery would by Sep 29th. Walmart said Sep 5th.

Walmart it is.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Max Kuehnau on September 02, 2019, 11:59:22 AM
Delivery delayed another week. My friend didn't preorder and new orders are saying they will be shipped in one month. What the hell is going on?

Isn't that the modus operandi for Amazon these days?  I don't bother with ordering music from them any more since it doesn't seem to be a priority.

I remember when I'd order things on Amazon and it would arrive a day or 2 before the release date.


Those were good times.
very much so, and this is why I don't order my records with them anymore. I prefer Highresaudio.de (it's the German equivalent to HDtracks)
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on September 02, 2019, 12:35:58 PM
Amazon said delivery would by Sep 29th. Walmart said Sep 5th.

Walmart it is.

hmm I see walmart sells the blu-ray only as well.  Might be getting mine there, but I'll hold off until after my travels the next couple weeks.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: MinistroRaven on September 02, 2019, 03:38:55 PM
FROM MP FB page

Quote
I hope you are all now enjoying the brand new Sons Of Apollo Live release “Live With The Plovdiv Psychotic Symphony”
As you may have noticed, there are 2 cover songs that are on the CDs that we weren’t allowed to include on the Blu-ray or DVD because the label could not secure the video synch liscenses from the original bands. 😔

I’m sharing these 2 tracks for you to enjoy while you can…
I encourage you all to copy, save and share just in case “the powers that BLEED” eventually take it down...
Enjoy! 😎

Dream On:
https://youtu.be/jUzjilTxdzk

Comfortably Numb:
https://youtu.be/FwrXiM6590s
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on September 02, 2019, 04:16:29 PM
That's awesome, I'll watch them later.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: TAC on September 02, 2019, 04:17:12 PM
MP being very cool! :tup
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: MinistroRaven on September 02, 2019, 04:19:42 PM
That's awesome, I'll watch them later.

I just downloaded them before YT blocks/remove them (It's a possibilty)
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Adami on September 02, 2019, 04:46:45 PM
Watched Dream On.

It was okay. Jeff did okay.  The band played it as close to identical as possible, minus some drum fills, which I’m never a fan of.

Also another example of a pointless orchestra/choir.

But hey, based on what I’ve seen, might be the easiest pay day for them.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Cool Chris on September 02, 2019, 05:07:37 PM
Just watched Comfortably Numb. Here's something I never, ever thought I would say in my lifetime: Mike's vocals were better than those of the lead singer.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Ben_Jamin on September 02, 2019, 06:50:10 PM
Dream On is actually pretty good. Even though JSS sounds like he's straining, the song suited his voice, like his gritty high "Dream On".
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Madman Shepherd on September 02, 2019, 07:51:05 PM
Delivery delayed another week. My friend didn't preorder and new orders are saying they will be shipped in one month. What the hell is going on?

Isn't that the modus operandi for Amazon these days?  I don't bother with ordering music from them any more since it doesn't seem to be a priority.

Yeah, last three new release I bought from there were all delayed. 2 were Inside Out, one was Frontier Records.

On the flip side, when I ordered the new Sacred Reich from indiemerch, it came 4 days early.

Just watched Comfortably Numb. Here's something I never, ever thought I would say in my lifetime: Mike's vocals were better than those of the lead singer.

You noticed that too? A little suspect to me, though. I suspect dubbing. He has never sounded that smooth live.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: BelichickFan on September 02, 2019, 07:53:15 PM
This thread encouraged me to go back and listen to the debut again. My recollection was it was "OK but not Dream Theater".

So...yikes. This is awful. Some decent parts in God of the Sun. Solid, though, generic, chorus in Labyrinth. But as an album this is unlistenable for me. Just bland, disjointed songwriting with nothing to lift it up.

Dream Theater with a different singer would be better than this but it's scary that Portnoy wanted to replace James with a more powerful, lower voice.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: TAC on September 02, 2019, 08:06:33 PM
I thought the live versions would have a little punch. I couldn't get halfway through God Of The Sun. Just awful.

Jeff Scott Soto really brings nothing. I'm shocked at how generic he sounds. I realize Marching Out was 35 years ago, but that is a Top 5 or 6 all time vocal.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: devieira73 on September 02, 2019, 08:50:15 PM
MP being very cool! :tup
MP doing things like this is always extremely cool!
MP does a really good job on Comfortably Numb indeed (and I'm not much a fan of his vocals). The images of the show are simple and beautiful.
I totally dig the footage's style and the performance, both are a bit raw and have a "for real" feeling that I appreciate very much! I would say the same for the rest of the album (only audio, my BD didn't arrive yet).
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Cool Chris on September 02, 2019, 09:04:22 PM
They should have cut some of those audience shots. Some of the peeps in the stands look downright bored!

Also, I know it's apples and oranges, but as this is dropping around the same time as the new Flying Colors, my tastes drastically line up with SoA more than FC. I don't care much for either, but I could see owning and enjoying this release. I can't listen to more than 2 minutes of FC.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Stadler on September 03, 2019, 08:31:06 AM
Those two clips weren't bad.  Not overwhelming, but pretty good.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Ben_Jamin on September 03, 2019, 09:39:03 AM
I bet they're going to be down now since Blabbermouth reported about Dream On.

For me, I don't really care about hearing the covers. But I do like watching them, especially with the orchestra.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: devieira73 on September 03, 2019, 09:44:28 AM
The Van Halen song is on the DVD? I undestood that these 3 songs were out.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Grappler on September 03, 2019, 09:48:41 AM
Cancelled the Amazon pre-order since it was delayed until at least September 9th.  I have the digital download for the music...ordered just the Blu-ray from Laser's Edge.  Also tacked on a few other blu-ray's/DVD's, because, why not?"   :metal

Very cool of Mike to share the videos that were cut from the official release despite not having the rights to the performance.  I'm looking forward to watching the concert.  Love the audio so far, but I agree with TAC that it could use some more punch.  Oh well.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: TAC on September 03, 2019, 09:58:10 AM
  Love the audio so far, but I agree with TAC that it could use some more punch.  Oh well.

It's the song though. My hope was that live, the songs would come across a little better. Nope..
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Art on September 03, 2019, 11:10:12 AM
Yeah, this live album is boring. I don't think a second album is going to happen.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: RodrigoAltaf on September 03, 2019, 11:19:22 AM
Yeah, this live album is boring. I don't think a second album is going to happen.

I have bad news for you, bud.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: gzarruk on September 03, 2019, 11:20:00 AM
Yeah, this live album is boring. I don't think a second album is going to happen.

The second studio album and tour will happen. Whether hey continue after that or not, we'll see, things aren't looking too bright for them after that imo.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Madman Shepherd on September 03, 2019, 11:55:27 AM
The Van Halen song is on the DVD? I undestood that these 3 songs were out.

I thought so too but maybe they got it figured out.
Yeah, this live album is boring. I don't think a second album is going to happen.

The second studio album and tour will happen. Whether hey continue after that or not, we'll see, things aren't looking too bright for them after that imo.

Yeah, my money is on no third album.

Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: The Letter M on September 03, 2019, 04:31:42 PM
Yeah, my money is on no third album.

Until Flying Colors' Third Degree was announced, I was worried that none of MP's post-DT bands would ever reach a third full-length studio LP!  :lol

-Marc.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: IgnotusPerIgnotium on September 05, 2019, 10:52:33 AM
Quote
The second studio album and tour will happen. Whether hey continue after that or not, we'll see, things aren't looking too bright for them after that imo.

Yeah the second album is done and will be released sometime in 2020 but nobody really knows what this band's lifespan will be..
The band is still growing and we haven't seen nothing as far as the music directions they'll go..
MP is doing a great job recapitulating the band's success with releasing a well performed and documented live of their work so far..
So time will tell..
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: JayOctavarium on September 05, 2019, 10:55:08 AM
After listening to a chunk of the live album, I've decided that the 2nd album is either going to be amazing or it's going to be very disappointing. I hope it's amazing. I want me some more Bumblefoot letting loose.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bosk1 on September 05, 2019, 11:41:54 AM
They should have cut some of those audience shots. Some of the peeps in the stands look downright bored!

I don't get a "bored" vibe at all.  They aren't very physically demonstrative, but that doesn't mean they are bored.  There seems to be about the same level of interest as when Devin Townsend filmed there, and I wouldn't say that crowd looked bored either.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ONZq7xzCKd0
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Adami on September 05, 2019, 06:46:31 PM
Watching the DVD now.

It's better than I thought, but the main word I can use is...........boring.

It's just boring. I'm on Kashmir right now, and this is one of the most boring lifeless versions of Kashmir I've heard.

I keep skipping their original songs because of how boring it all sounds.

Real shame, I was hoping the live atmosphere would change how I think of the songs. But nope, just like the album, I'm bored with it.

Wow, The Show Must Go On...............that was really bad. I love that song with a passion, but jesus. No.

Watching the orchestra, they might be as bored as I am. I feel like they spend most of the time either just sitting there or doing long held out notes.

Also what's with the editing? There's been a number of shots of people not playing what I'm hearing. I doubt it's an overdub issue, just seems like shoddy video editing.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Max Kuehnau on September 06, 2019, 03:59:59 AM
Watching the DVD now.

It's better than I thought, but the main word I can use is...........boring.

It's just boring. I'm on Kashmir right now, and this is one of the most boring lifeless versions of Kashmir I've heard.

I keep skipping their original songs because of how boring it all sounds.

Real shame, I was hoping the live atmosphere would change how I think of the songs. But nope, just like the album, I'm bored with it.

Wow, The Show Must Go On...............that was really bad. I love that song with a passion, but jesus. No.

Watching the orchestra, they might be as bored as I am. I feel like they spend most of the time either just sitting there or doing long held out notes.

Also what's with the editing? There's been a number of shots of people not playing what I'm hearing. I doubt it's an overdub issue, just seems like shoddy video editing.
yes it was IMHO (says a lifelong Queen fan)
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: goo-goo on September 06, 2019, 07:29:55 AM

It's better than I thought, but the main word I can use is...........boring.


I felt it was a bit stale with no energy. I don't think it was necessarily boring, but it lacked the energy of live recordings.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Art on September 06, 2019, 10:47:57 AM
Watching the DVD now.

It's better than I thought, but the main word I can use is...........boring.

It's just boring. I'm on Kashmir right now, and this is one of the most boring lifeless versions of Kashmir I've heard.

I keep skipping their original songs because of how boring it all sounds.

Real shame, I was hoping the live atmosphere would change how I think of the songs. But nope, just like the album, I'm bored with it.

Wow, The Show Must Go On...............that was really bad. I love that song with a passion, but jesus. No.

Watching the orchestra, they might be as bored as I am. I feel like they spend most of the time either just sitting there or doing long held out notes.

Also what's with the editing? There's been a number of shots of people not playing what I'm hearing. I doubt it's an overdub issue, just seems like shoddy video editing.

Agreed, especially about The Show Must Go On, Soto butchered it  :sad:
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Madman Shepherd on September 06, 2019, 06:14:15 PM
Finally got the album yesterday after seriously considering just canceling the damn delayed order. But I'm a completist and would probably end up buying it later, possibly for an inflated price, so I held out. To summarize my opinion up to this point, I REALLY wanted to like this band. The roll out was so clumbsy (Mike getting mad at fans for correctly guessing who was in the band), Derek was being a dick, they claimed they were the new kings of prog and then ended up making a strait forward metal album with some proggy elements, 50% of their songs not being very good and then the other 50% frustratingly good to great, and it very quickly seemed like they all lost interest in the band, possibly due to the problems of booking them in decent venues and lackluster sales.

Needless to say I wasn't too excited for the live album and the people here that already saw it gave it generally poor revues, so perhaps it's a good thing my expectations were so low because I actually really am digging this.

Granted, I think overall the covers are unnecessary and the orchestra can't be heard well over Derek that is just doubling the strings, but if I just took this release at face value or had no expectations and didn't know all the baggage, I'd be pretty pumped to learn more about this band.

First thing was watching the show I was reminded about how much fun I had seeing them. Jeff sounded decent for the first part and thankfully I shut it off to go for a walk and listen to it on headphones. The second part you could tell he was struggling but in my headphone mix he sounded much better. Coming through TV speakers he sounded kinda bad. Laptop speakers were even worse. But with my headphones cranked, I was really digging it. 

The fact that he was struggling *almost* made me like it more. You could tell he was putting everything he had into it. On the other hand, him struggling strained his voice more and he couldn't hit some relatively easy notes later in the show. It also reminds me about how Mike was so critical of James who, disregarding the occasional off night, is much more consistent with the high notes than Jeff is.

I was surprised to see all the bonus features on the DVD too, then just as surprised to realize they were all things that had been released in promotion for the album. I enjoyed them and Derek's enthusiasm but then just as quickly was sick of him when he threw out the slams on ipads and gadgets and whatever. The one new feature was the behind the scenes documentary of the show. This seemed like it was just thrown together and pretty underwhelming.

Oh yeah, there was a TV appearance in Bulgaria that Mike and Jeff were on. There was a translator that went between them and the Bulgarian host and you couldn't understand a damn thing because they were talking over each other for 20 minutes. Still cool but needed subtitles or something.

Sadly, it seems a lot of people don't share my opinion and also that the band doesn't seem to care much about promoting this aside from the occasional tweet or Mike (illegally) sharing the two numbers cut from the DVD. It just seems like the ol' "Hey let's get excited for this next release!" and then once it's out, they feel like moving on which is about par for them.

I doubt I'll listen to this much but for now I'm digging it.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: RodrigoAltaf on September 07, 2019, 06:42:35 AM
 Madman...JLB MORE consistent than Jeff Scott Soto? What did I miss, man? I can't think of a more inconsistent singer than James!

 I think the attitude and a few statements of the band members set an impossible standard for DT fans - especially Derek. It's almost like some of us are determined to examine and over-analyze every minutiae of SOA just to be critical. But to each his own. I love the live album. JSS does seem to struggle on a few tracks, but pulls all of them off. He sings them on his own voice and doesn't try to mimic the original singer's voice. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Stadler on September 07, 2019, 07:57:52 AM
Madman...JLB MORE consistent than Jeff Scott Soto? What did I miss, man? I can't think of a more inconsistent singer than James!

 I think the attitude and a few statements of the band members set an impossible standard for DT fans - especially Derek. It's almost like some of us are determined to examine and over-analyze every minutiae of SOA just to be critical. But to each his own. I love the live album. JSS does seem to struggle on a few tracks, but pulls all of them off. He sings them on his own voice and doesn't try to mimic the original singer's voice.

I don't think that's a result of Derek's tweeting, though.  That's kind of par for the course. 

I just think that ultimately, the cream rises to the top, and there are too many things to overlook with SOA.  My opinion only, but I see it as a pattern for many (not all) of the post-DT Portnoy projects.   DT was uncompromising - and after FII, famously so - and other than the Neal Morse/Neal Morse Band material, I don't get that sense anymore.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: King Postwhore on September 07, 2019, 08:05:36 AM
Fans were put off by the bravado and the taunting Derek did promoting the album.

That my take on it. I still bought the CD and the new Blu Ray/cd.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Madman Shepherd on September 07, 2019, 10:29:45 AM
Madman...JLB MORE consistent than Jeff Scott Soto? What did I miss, man? I can't think of a more inconsistent singer than James!



With the high notes, yes, James is way more consistent. Even in God of the Sun during the slow part that starts, "Through the silence of the night" Jeff never attempts the awesome melody that ends with "You faaaaaaaalllllll...." which isn't exactly "high" but it is higher and hard for him to achieve in a live setting.

It is more apparent in the cover songs where Jeff really struggles but to me, sounds kind of good with the rawness.

I don't see how that is in anyway controversial. It seems like a pretty reasonable assessment.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ReaperKK on September 07, 2019, 12:02:45 PM
People who have heard JSS with other projects, he seemed to be having an off night on the DVD? Is that true or is that par for the course for his live performances?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Madman Shepherd on September 07, 2019, 12:21:19 PM
I mean, I'm not too familiar with him but he sounded on par from other SoA shows. I actually just bought a couple of Yngwie CDs that are coming in the mail today so I can check out his other work. He's in his fifties now so some slack should be given.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on September 07, 2019, 01:37:09 PM
Watching the DVD now.

It's better than I thought, but the main word I can use is...........boring.

It's just boring. I'm on Kashmir right now, and this is one of the most boring lifeless versions of Kashmir I've heard.

I keep skipping their original songs because of how boring it all sounds.

Real shame, I was hoping the live atmosphere would change how I think of the songs. But nope, just like the album, I'm bored with it.

Wow, The Show Must Go On...............that was really bad. I love that song with a passion, but jesus. No.

Watching the orchestra, they might be as bored as I am. I feel like they spend most of the time either just sitting there or doing long held out notes.

Also what's with the editing? There's been a number of shots of people not playing what I'm hearing. I doubt it's an overdub issue, just seems like shoddy video editing.

Agreed, especially about The Show Must Go On, Soto butchered it  :sad:

That's unfortunate since JSS is doing a Queen tribute set at next year's ProgPower
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ErHaO on September 07, 2019, 04:54:52 PM
Watching the DVD now.

It's better than I thought, but the main word I can use is...........boring.

It's just boring. I'm on Kashmir right now, and this is one of the most boring lifeless versions of Kashmir I've heard.

I keep skipping their original songs because of how boring it all sounds.

Real shame, I was hoping the live atmosphere would change how I think of the songs. But nope, just like the album, I'm bored with it.

Wow, The Show Must Go On...............that was really bad. I love that song with a passion, but jesus. No.

Watching the orchestra, they might be as bored as I am. I feel like they spend most of the time either just sitting there or doing long held out notes.

Also what's with the editing? There's been a number of shots of people not playing what I'm hearing. I doubt it's an overdub issue, just seems like shoddy video editing.

Agreed, especially about The Show Must Go On, Soto butchered it  :sad:

That's unfortunate since JSS is doing a Queen tribute set at next year's ProgPower


On the positive side, judging from skimming through the audio album, I like his Prophet's Song solo and performance of Save Me. I agree The Show Must Go On is a bit wonky. But I don't really like that song if I am honest, even with Mercury himself.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: RodrigoAltaf on September 07, 2019, 07:09:55 PM
There are many adjectives I'd use for James Labrie, but consistent is the last one I'd think of when it comes to his voice. And I do still love him.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Madman Shepherd on September 07, 2019, 07:57:06 PM
There are many adjectives I'd use for James Labrie, but consistent is the last one I'd think of when it comes to his voice. And I do still love him.

Ok
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: nobloodyname on September 07, 2019, 09:47:18 PM
There are many adjectives I'd use for James Labrie, but consistent is the last one I'd think of when it comes to his voice. And I do still love him.

I dunno. I'd use that word if in conjunction with 'iffy live performance'.

Or in conjunction with 'inconsistent'. Probably a slightly better way of putting it :biggrin:
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: gzarruk on September 07, 2019, 09:48:38 PM
I still hold my opinion that Soto sounds like a poor man's Russell Allen. A similar tone/approach, but without the range and power.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ytserush on September 08, 2019, 09:27:15 AM
MP being very cool! :tup
MP doing things like this is always extremely cool!
MP does a really good job on Comfortably Numb indeed (and I'm not much a fan of his vocals). The images of the show are simple and beautiful.
I totally dig the footage's style and the performance, both are a bit raw and have a "for real" feeling that I appreciate very much! I would say the same for the rest of the album (only audio, my BD didn't arrive yet).

That's right. He didn't have to do that.

 I did like Comfortably Numb and I'm glad it's on the CD but for me Dream On is no great loss. Probably don't need to see or hear that one again.

My copy arrived but I haven't opened it yet for a listen. I'm hoping I get more mileage out of it than the studio album.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ytserush on September 08, 2019, 09:30:21 AM
They should have cut some of those audience shots. Some of the peeps in the stands look downright bored!

I don't get a "bored" vibe at all.  They aren't very physically demonstrative, but that doesn't mean they are bored.  There seems to be about the same level of interest as when Devin Townsend filmed there, and I wouldn't say that crowd looked bored either.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ONZq7xzCKd0

Based on those two clips, I'd say the orchestra was the most inspired group on that stage and I'm not sure why it comes across like that to me.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ytserush on September 08, 2019, 09:34:04 AM

It's better than I thought, but the main word I can use is...........boring.


I felt it was a bit stale with no energy. I don't think it was necessarily boring, but it lacked the energy of live recordings.

Could that have been the venue? Still trying to figure out why there doesn't seem to be a meaningful energy level.  Is there some context that is missing?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ProfessorPeart on September 08, 2019, 09:42:15 AM
Second album is off for mixing.

https://twitter.com/DerekSherinian/status/1170388210804908033

Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ytserush on September 08, 2019, 09:55:32 AM
Madman...JLB MORE consistent than Jeff Scott Soto? What did I miss, man? I can't think of a more inconsistent singer than James!

 I think the attitude and a few statements of the band members set an impossible standard for DT fans - especially Derek. It's almost like some of us are determined to examine and over-analyze every minutiae of SOA just to be critical. But to each his own. I love the live album. JSS does seem to struggle on a few tracks, but pulls all of them off. He sings them on his own voice and doesn't try to mimic the original singer's voice.

Only if you believed those original statements.

I was hoping for better chemistry but sometimes that just isn't possible.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ytserush on September 08, 2019, 09:59:13 AM
I still hold my opinion that Soto sounds like a poor man's Russell Allen. A similar tone/approach, but without the range and power.

I'm not a fan of Russell Allen's work so I suppose that would make some sense in why I'm not a fan of Soto's either.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Madman Shepherd on September 08, 2019, 01:26:37 PM
I'm not a fan if Russell Allen but I actually like Soto more, though I do get the comparisons
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Lowdz on September 08, 2019, 02:31:45 PM
Just watched Comfortably Numb. Here's something I never, ever thought I would say in my lifetime: Mike's vocals were better than those of the lead singer.

Sounded auto tuned to Hell to me.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: gzarruk on September 08, 2019, 02:39:31 PM
Second album is off for mixing.

https://twitter.com/DerekSherinian/status/1170388210804908033

Not a big fan of the first one, but looking forward to the 2nd.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Anxiety35 on September 09, 2019, 10:01:17 AM
Why does Derek do the king of keys thing at the end of every twitter and instagram post?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bosk1 on September 09, 2019, 10:05:47 AM
Because kings gotta king.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: gzarruk on September 09, 2019, 10:20:00 AM
Why does Derek do the king of keys thing at the end of every twitter and instagram post?

Because he's trying to convince people he is something he actually isn't.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Max Kuehnau on September 09, 2019, 10:43:31 AM
Because kings gotta king.
:D :D :D
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Podaar on September 11, 2019, 08:22:44 AM
Why does Derek do the king of keys thing at the end of every twitter and instagram post?

Because kings gotta king.

"Any man who must say, 'I am the king' is no true king." -- Tywin Lannister
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Orbert on September 11, 2019, 08:48:50 AM
Say it enough and it becomes true.

Remember when Howard Stern was "King of All Media"?  Someone asked him how that came about, and he said he did it on purpose.  If Michael Jackson could just decide that he was "King of Pop" and start calling himself that, Stern decided that he would start pimping himself as "King of All Media" and see if it stuck, and it did for a while.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Stadler on September 11, 2019, 08:53:55 AM
Say it enough and it becomes true.

Remember when Howard Stern was "King of All Media"?  Someone asked him how that came about, and he said he did it on purpose.  If Michael Jackson could just decide that he was "King of Pop" and start calling himself that, Stern decided that he would start pimping himself as "King of All Media" and see if it stuck, and it did for a while.

It's still stuck; he uses ad bumpers that say that all the time.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Orbert on September 11, 2019, 09:05:10 AM
Amazing.  I kinda stopped following Howard a while back, but that's amazing that he just "crowned" himself King of All Media, and -- ta-da! -- now he is, and still is.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: JayOctavarium on September 11, 2019, 09:15:25 AM
I mean... Simba kept talking about being king...

And then it happened.

Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: v_clortho on September 11, 2019, 09:20:38 AM
Hmmmm. I hereby declare myself King of DTF.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Stadler on September 11, 2019, 09:28:34 AM
I am the Master Of My Domain.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Adami on September 11, 2019, 09:33:16 AM
I am the Master Of My Domain.

Strongly disagree.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Anxiety35 on September 11, 2019, 11:38:13 AM
So I guess he thinks he's more than what he is? Common for us humans.

I'd say the king of keys off the top of my head would be any of the following
Rick Wakeman
Keith Emerson
Jordan Rudess
Jens Johannson
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: goo-goo on September 11, 2019, 11:51:48 AM
I am the Master Of My Domain.

Strongly disagree.

*pulls chart*

 :biggrin:
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: romdrums on September 11, 2019, 12:27:47 PM
So I guess he thinks he's more than what he is? Common for us humans.

I'd say the king of keys off the top of my head would be any of the following
Rick Wakeman
Keith Emerson
Jordan Rudess
Jens Johannson

Don't forget Tony Banks.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bosk1 on September 11, 2019, 12:59:37 PM
Hmmmm. I hereby declare myself King of DTF.

:mangenie:

Your wish is my command
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: gzarruk on September 11, 2019, 01:20:27 PM
Hmmmm. I hereby declare myself King of DTF.

:mangenie:

Your wish is my command

 :rollin :rollin :rollin
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Max Kuehnau on September 11, 2019, 01:42:56 PM
The question is though: Who will be the Viper King of DTF or anything else? :D
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: v_clortho on September 11, 2019, 01:55:47 PM
Hmmmm. I hereby declare myself King of DTF.



:mangenie:

Your wish is my command

 ;D
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: v_clortho on September 11, 2019, 04:36:23 PM
Wait..
This whole king thing is just ceremonial, right? I don't actually have any duties, do I? ♚
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Adami on September 11, 2019, 10:13:35 PM
Wait..
This whole king thing is just ceremonial, right? I don't actually have any duties, do I? ♚


You didn’t read the manual?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: v_clortho on September 12, 2019, 05:33:29 AM
Who reads the manual?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ytserush on September 13, 2019, 07:18:14 PM

It's better than I thought, but the main word I can use is...........boring.


I felt it was a bit stale with no energy. I don't think it was necessarily boring, but it lacked the energy of live recordings.

Could that have been the venue? Still trying to figure out why there doesn't seem to be a meaningful energy level.  Is there some context that is missing?


Ok I just watched this over 2 nights and this really isn't THAT bad.  This is SO much better than the studio album. Probably made the right decision getting this CD/DVD over seeing them live. Soto was a bit better than I thought he was going to be too. Still not a fan of his work but I think he does a decent enough job in this setting. The originals and the orchestra were definitely the highlights for me.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Madman Shepherd on September 14, 2019, 10:01:11 AM

It's better than I thought, but the main word I can use is...........boring.


I felt it was a bit stale with no energy. I don't think it was necessarily boring, but it lacked the energy of live recordings.

Could that have been the venue? Still trying to figure out why there doesn't seem to be a meaningful energy level.  Is there some context that is missing?


Ok I just watched this over 2 nights and this really isn't THAT bad.  This is SO much better than the studio album.

How is this better than the studio album? I agree that it is better than expected but I just don't really understand your comment.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Grappler on September 16, 2019, 06:28:28 PM
I FINALLY have the blu ray.  Order was shipped two weeks ago from Laser's Edge.  Usually, they are fast.  I selected Media Mail to save a buck or two, knowing it would be a little slower.  No biggie.  The fucking USPS sent it from New Jersey all the way across the country to Los Angeles, and then BACK to Chicago.  WTF?  I would have had it a week ago, had it not completely passed me up and went 2,000 miles farther than it needed to go.

Anyways, I'm watching it now and it looks and sounds fantastic.  The band is rocking pretty good - I think having the crowd so far away at that venue might take away a little of the energy of a full live package, since it looks like they're just on a soundstage at times.  But I don't have any problems with the performance at all.  They look like they'd be a ton of fun to see live.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: MinistroRaven on September 16, 2019, 07:27:49 PM
Ha! It has happened to me too. In fact I am expecting by thursday a package that was sent last thursday from Hialeah to Miami. 32 to minutes apart, well, the package arrived to Miami on Friday and now it is in Jacksonvile!!! What the f*ck!!!?!?!?!? Anyway, I am super pumped to received this package!
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: MinistroRaven on September 17, 2019, 08:43:35 AM
Ha! It has happened to me too. In fact I am expecting by thursday a package that was sent last thursday from Hialeah to Miami. 32 to minutes apart, well, the package arrived to Miami on Friday and now it is in Jacksonvile!!! What the f*ck!!!?!?!?!? Anyway, I am super pumped to received this package!

The package it's now at Dallas, TX. hahahaha
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ytserush on September 18, 2019, 06:33:59 PM

It's better than I thought, but the main word I can use is...........boring.


I felt it was a bit stale with no energy. I don't think it was necessarily boring, but it lacked the energy of live recordings.

Could that have been the venue? Still trying to figure out why there doesn't seem to be a meaningful energy level.  Is there some context that is missing?


Ok I just watched this over 2 nights and this really isn't THAT bad.  This is SO much better than the studio album.

How is this better than the studio album? I agree that it is better than expected but I just don't really understand your comment.

Studio album was just kind of there for me. I like the live album more because it's it's a much more organic experience.  I thought the orchestra added to the experience and they seemed to really stretch out on the originals and I think those are much better inspired versions. (although I really wasn't blown away by the improvement because it was expected.)

Also, I can listen to Billy Sheehan live just about any day of the week.
The solo spots were very tasteful and I have to admit Soto was a bit better live than I expected.    The covers really didn't do a lot for me for the most part. 

Have to admit I thought I made a mistake in buying this when Mike was nice enough to post those You Tube videos. But actually watching the DVD was a different experience.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: MinistroRaven on October 12, 2019, 01:52:59 PM
https://www.blabbermouth.net/news/sons-of-apollo-completes-mixing-and-mastering-second-album/
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bosk1 on October 12, 2019, 02:34:36 PM
Derek:  "Can't wait for you to hear this!!!"

Really, dude?  Then maybe try looking like you are enjoying yourself when you play it, unlike the last tour.  And maybe be a bit polite and amicable to your fans in a way that actually shows some enthusiasm for what you are doing and who is paying you to do it.  Just a suggestion.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Max Kuehnau on October 12, 2019, 02:39:09 PM
Derek:  "Can't wait for you to hear this!!!"

Really, dude?  Then maybe try looking like you are enjoying yourself when you play it, unlike the last tour.  And maybe be a bit polite and amicable to your fans in a way that actually shows some enthusiasm for what you are doing and who is paying you to do it.  Just a suggestion.
maybe he meant (meant!) something along the lines of: "We like what we've done and I'm sure you will too." Or something to that effect (I can't know. I don't understand humans.)
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on October 12, 2019, 03:59:02 PM
Derek:  "Can't wait for you to hear this!!!"

Really, dude?  Then maybe try looking like you are enjoying yourself when you play it, unlike the last tour.  And maybe be a bit polite and amicable to your fans in a way that actually shows some enthusiasm for what you are doing and who is paying you to do it.  Just a suggestion.

Ooof but spot on  :lol
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Max Kuehnau on October 12, 2019, 04:00:32 PM
Derek:  "Can't wait for you to hear this!!!"

Really, dude?  Then maybe try looking like you are enjoying yourself when you play it, unlike the last tour.  And maybe be a bit polite and amicable to your fans in a way that actually shows some enthusiasm for what you are doing and who is paying you to do it.  Just a suggestion.

Ooof but spot on  :lol
Spot on? Most definitely. Oof? No, not at all. I wouldn't be that mild mannered I think.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: IDontNotDoThings on October 12, 2019, 06:37:53 PM
Can't wait for the next SOA album.

I didn't like PS or anything, but maybe after the second album, we'll have enough good SOA songs to make one decent album's worth. :lol
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ReaperKK on October 12, 2019, 07:23:04 PM
Derek:  "Can't wait for you to hear this!!!"

Really, dude?  Then maybe try looking like you are enjoying yourself when you play it, unlike the last tour.  And maybe be a bit polite and amicable to your fans in a way that actually shows some enthusiasm for what you are doing and who is paying you to do it.  Just a suggestion.

I have never seen someone look more unhappy to be on stage than Derek, he looks more miserable than I do going into work on a Monday after spending a weekend binge drinking.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Madman Shepherd on October 12, 2019, 08:14:43 PM
Derek:  "Can't wait for you to hear this!!!"

Really, dude?  Then maybe try looking like you are enjoying yourself when you play it, unlike the last tour.  And maybe be a bit polite and amicable to your fans in a way that actually shows some enthusiasm for what you are doing and who is paying you to do it.  Just a suggestion.

I have never seen someone look more unhappy to be on stage than Derek, he looks more miserable than I do going into work on a Monday after spending a weekend binge drinking.

Which is weird because in the promotional videos in the lead up to their debut he was totally enthused. It was actually somewhat infectious and got me excited.

Does he just have terrible mood swings or what?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Spiritus on October 12, 2019, 08:32:06 PM
Derek:  "Can't wait for you to hear this!!!"

Really, dude?  Then maybe try looking like you are enjoying yourself when you play it, unlike the last tour.  And maybe be a bit polite and amicable to your fans in a way that actually shows some enthusiasm for what you are doing and who is paying you to do it.  Just a suggestion.

I have never seen someone look more unhappy to be on stage than Derek, he looks more miserable than I do going into work on a Monday after spending a weekend binge drinking.

...after your boss tells you to put away that pickmeupper at 9am
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: The Walrus on October 12, 2019, 09:18:52 PM
They already mastered it? Did they write and record this in a week or did time just fly by for me?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: The Letter M on October 12, 2019, 09:45:48 PM
They already mastered it? Did they write and record this in a week or did time just fly by for me?

Looking at their website, their News page has FB and Twitter feeds to their posts, and it looks like Mike recorded his drums way back in mid-January of this year, so they've been working on it for the last 9-10 months.

-Marc.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: goo-goo on October 12, 2019, 11:00:41 PM
Hopefully this longer writing period results in stronger songs. Would like to hear an unrestrained Soto and less wankery/noodling in the songs.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: MinistroRaven on October 13, 2019, 08:55:56 PM
MP just posted an IG story in a "secret" location, where SOA it's shooting video and photo shooting for the upcoming album.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: JayOctavarium on October 13, 2019, 11:42:44 PM
The secret location is in Glendale lmao
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Anxiety35 on October 15, 2019, 12:28:47 PM
From the Blabbermouth article...

"SONS OF APOLLO will embark on a tour of North America in early 2020. Support on the trek, which will kick off on January 24 in Pomona, California, will be provided by guitarist Tony MacAlpine, who previously played alongside Sherinian in PLANET X and with Portnoy, Sherinian and Sheehan in PSMS."

This will be really cool.

On the new release, I'm curious as to what is in store.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bosk1 on October 15, 2019, 12:43:22 PM
I'll probably buy the release.  I don't expect that I will see them this tour, unless a show ends up being extremely cheap and convenient.  Judging from last tour, they put on a pretty good show.  But I don't expect things to be drastically different in that regard, and although I appreciate McAlpine's musicianship, I have zero desire to see him live.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Adami on October 15, 2019, 12:58:41 PM
If they came to Long Island, I’d go. But they won’t, and I’m not going to the city for them.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Stadler on October 15, 2019, 01:10:44 PM
If they came to Long Island, I’d go. But they won’t, and I’m not going to the city for them.

The Paramount in Huntington wouldn't be a bad venue to see them.  I'd drive down for that.  Maybe. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: IDontNotDoThings on October 15, 2019, 06:02:13 PM
So if the tour starts in January, does that give us any clues on the release date of SOA2?

I mean, surely they wouldn't start the tour before the album drops, right? & I also don't think they're gonna be bold enough to release it during December (because christmas & all). Does that mean we can expect it in November? That's a lot sooner than I thought initially...
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: goo-goo on October 15, 2019, 06:55:07 PM
I read somewhere that the new album will be out by the end of January or early February. I think MP mentioned that a while back.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on October 16, 2019, 02:39:04 PM
Seeing as my concert schedule is almost empty for 2019, I'm almost definitely going to that NJ or NYC show because I will be itching to see a concert and they are great live.  I do hope the album is already out though so I can digest it before the show. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: RodrigoAltaf on October 16, 2019, 06:41:15 PM
The album comes out in January. Derek approached me today, he wanted to do a career spanning interview to celebrate 30 years of him joining the Alice Cooper band. We spoke for almost 50 minutes about almost every band and artist he's worked with. He said the new SOA will be heavier, and that it comes out in January. I won't tell you guys more because I want you to listen to the interview, but it was great! He even addressed his perceived lack of engagement when he plays live, which I decided to ask him about after seeing some comments here on this topic. I'll post it here when it's published!
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ReaperKK on October 16, 2019, 06:57:03 PM
That I am actually looking forward to checking out
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: goo-goo on October 16, 2019, 07:20:35 PM
The album comes out in January. Derek approached me today, he wanted to do a career spanning interview to celebrate 30 years of him joining the Alice Cooper band. We spoke for almost 50 minutes about almost every band and artist he's worked with. He said the new SOA will be heavier, and that it comes out in January. I won't tell you guys more because I want you to listen to the interview, but it was great! He even addressed his perceived lack of engagement when he plays live, which I decided to ask him about after seeing some comments here on this topic. I'll post it here when it's published!

Awesome! looking forward to your interview with Derek. I'm a big DS fan!
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Grappler on October 16, 2019, 07:27:32 PM
Heavier is a good thing.   :metal

Looking forward to the interview and the new album. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: gzarruk on October 16, 2019, 09:54:55 PM
Did he address why he likes to act so childish and inmature?




 :corn
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: RodrigoAltaf on October 17, 2019, 03:27:12 AM
Did he address why he likes to act so childish and inmature?

Man, I know you're joking, but he was really cool during the interview, and even played a little bit.




 :corn
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on October 17, 2019, 08:01:26 AM
That's pretty cool that he approached you Rodrigo, I'll have to check it out
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: RodrigoAltaf on October 17, 2019, 08:30:30 AM
That's pretty cool that he approached you Rodrigo, I'll have to check it out

Thanks! He gave some insight on his time with DT as well, so I think it'll be interesting for everyone on the forum. That was a kickass interview, man!!!
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: gmillerdrake on October 17, 2019, 09:14:47 AM
He even addressed his perceived lack of engagement when he plays live, which I decided to ask him about after seeing some comments here on this topic.

I've commented on that a couple times because man....when I saw them here in St. Louis he looked like he wanted to be anywhere but on stage performing. Very curious to see how he explains that.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bosk1 on October 17, 2019, 09:35:05 AM
He even addressed his perceived lack of engagement when he plays live, which I decided to ask him about after seeing some comments here on this topic.

I've commented on that a couple times because man....when I saw them here in St. Louis he looked like he wanted to be anywhere but on stage performing. Very curious to see how he explains that.

Yeah, it was the same out here.  I found his demeanor to be odd, honestly.  We got to the venue early to have plenty of time to grab a leisurely dinner and to see if we could maybe catch any of the band members hanging out in back.  Derek was eating at a restaurant directly across the street out on the open patio, which was literally about 50 feet from the front door of the venue.  But despite being right out in the open, he looked like he did not want to be noticed.  He was eating alone, keeping his head down, and when I looked his way a couple of times, he quickly ducked his head.  A little while later, when he was walking across the street to the venue, a fan approached him, and he looked SO offput by having to talk to the guy.  In fairness, I didn't hear anything that was being said.  But his body language conveyed that he would rather be anywhere else.  Then later when they were onstage, he looked bored and disengaged.  The only times he appeared to show any emotion were the couple of exchanges with his tech during the performance where he appeared to be very frustrated and/or angry about something.  I found him to be pretty offputting.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ReaperKK on October 17, 2019, 10:57:04 AM
I think him carrying himself like that is detractor to the live performance. I've seen a few shows with bands that didn't seem interested in being there and I get it, everyone is human but it can really negatively impact a performance for me

This isn't a direct comparisons but I saw barenaked ladies on tour a few years ago and the lead singer looked and sounded incredibly sick but he stuck it out and made a bunch of jokes about getting the flu. Quite frankly he sucked that night but the fact he was seemingly making an effort despite very clearly not wanting to be stil made for a good show.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: KevShmev on October 17, 2019, 12:37:38 PM
To be fair, it has to be tough for the King of Keys to be playing in front of such small crowds.


:P :P
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: devieira73 on October 18, 2019, 07:11:08 AM
A little information about the new album by Ron:
https://www.ultimate-guitar.com/news/upcoming_releases/bumblefoot_shares_update_on_new_sons_of_apollo_album.html
The joke about “great playing, bad songs” :D
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Stadler on October 18, 2019, 07:42:39 AM
A little information about the new album by Ron:
https://www.ultimate-guitar.com/news/upcoming_releases/bumblefoot_shares_update_on_new_sons_of_apollo_album.html
The joke about “great playing, bad songs” :D

I don't know him well enough to say what he was actually thinking, but some of the things he said there could easily be taken in various ways...
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on October 18, 2019, 07:49:28 AM
I was optimistic for round 2, and that interview didn't help and the joking part (great playing, bad songs) wasn't the reason.  I could almost envision Ron laughing that off, but everything he said surrounding that statement just makes me feel like we are going to get the same album again which then almost make the joke not really one.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: devieira73 on October 18, 2019, 08:14:52 AM
I believe that Ron was truly joking about the general criticism for prog or prog metal in particular... but I also expect that the album will be very similar to first one, which I liked a lot. I was expecting that already, because of the same pattern for album's creation that the band adopted, and much more after the few things about the album that Derek and Ron said. When someone says, "this album is heavier than the first", more often than not, there won't be much modification in style.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: RodrigoAltaf on October 18, 2019, 09:24:51 AM
 Here's my interview with Derek: https://www.sonicperspectives.com/features/interview-with-sherinian-derek/?fbclid=IwAR2m3H-V8Ryi1wzlMtQj1l25ME8TSdthd7cJhcFk_dnuABMxjmi95FQwSSM

 I hope you guys enjoy it, and please share it. There are insights on his tenure with DT, working with Alice Cooper, Kiss, Planet X, Black Country Communion, Sons of Apollo, Malmsteen, Billy Idol etc etc etc.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Lonk on October 18, 2019, 09:46:31 AM
I'm 17 minutes into the interview, is pretty good so far but I had to stop because of a comment he made;

"If you are reading it, you are not feeling it" talking in regards to reading or memorizing music to play on stage. Find it funny based on recent comments made here about his stage presence  :lol
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: MinistroRaven on October 18, 2019, 09:49:23 AM
Here's my interview with Derek: https://www.sonicperspectives.com/features/interview-with-sherinian-derek/?fbclid=IwAR2m3H-V8Ryi1wzlMtQj1l25ME8TSdthd7cJhcFk_dnuABMxjmi95FQwSSM

 I hope you guys enjoy it, and please share it. There are insights on his tenure with DT, working with Alice Cooper, Kiss, Planet X, Black Country Communion, Sons of Apollo, Malmsteen, Billy Idol etc etc etc.

Had the chance to listen to the interview a couple of days ago, a very good job Rodrigo!
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: MinistroRaven on October 18, 2019, 10:20:17 AM
I'm 17 minutes into the interview, is pretty good so far but I had to stop because of a comment he made;

"If you are reading it, you are not feeling it" talking in regards to reading or memorizing music to play on stage. Find it funny based on recent comments made here about his stage presence  :lol

He addressed the stage presence thing later in the interview.

BTW I found the message when @Rodrigo step forward to do the interview with Derek 2 years ago.

(https://i.ibb.co/cQHvPQy/73513549-1170069016517468-3952232178544279552-n.png) (https://ibb.co/Hqs20qK)

Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Grappler on October 18, 2019, 10:33:31 AM
Great interview.  Given all of the complaining about Derek on these forums, I figured he'd come off like a pompous guy.  But he was very personable in the interview - it was fun to hear him talk about the musicians he's worked with as a real a fan of them all.  He could easily just sit and brag, but he really showed that he was happy and excited about those opportunities.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bosk1 on October 18, 2019, 11:00:18 AM
Yeah, from what I had heard about him through the years and in his days of posting here, he always came across the way you describe, Grapp.  I'm not sure why the difference.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Orbert on October 18, 2019, 11:36:14 AM
For a long, long time I thought Derek was playing it tongue-in-cheek, 100% the arrogant asshole rock star, but it's 100% understood that he's just playing.  It's rock and roll, none of it's real anyway, blah blah blah.  I've always loved "Making history... and you?"

Then on the ramp up to SoA, he either pushed it too far, or started taking himself too seriously, or something, because I started thinking "Wait... he actually is an arrogant asshole rock star? The joke is serious? What is real anymore? What should I have for dinner?"

Now I don't even know what to think.  Still love his playing, though.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Adami on October 18, 2019, 11:41:53 AM
Now I don't even know what to think. 

Pizza is always a good choice.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: devieira73 on October 18, 2019, 12:03:30 PM
Great interview, Rodrigo, you're very prepared, objective and fluid, and makes really good questions!
Derek is really nice on this interview... about his stage presence I also see him like a compenetrated musician - since his days in DT - like, let's say, Neil Peart. I never had the feeling of them being disconnected or bored at all. Maybe they are a bit of shy people after all.
But it kinda suprised me he saying (not paraphasing him, from what I understood) that he likes better being more perfect in his performance than be "a show man". Because his rock'n'roll background, I thought he would say otherwise.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on October 18, 2019, 12:15:42 PM
I only started listening but its interesting and he definitely comes off well from what I heard.  Haven't gotten to the juicy parts about his appearance but Im honestly not sure anything he says will change the way I felt when I met him at the progpower meet and greet, especially the way everyone else in that band came off when meeting them, including MP.

I've become a big Bumblefoot and JSS fan since SOA formed because of how they perform on stage but also the way they treated me when I met them. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Orbert on October 18, 2019, 01:47:29 PM
Now I don't even know what to think. 

Pizza is always a good choice.

Normally yeah, but Mrs. Orbert and I are on a diet (again).
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ProfessorPeart on October 18, 2019, 01:57:42 PM
Haven't listened, but based on the conversation I was also getting a Neil Peart vibe. Little to no emotion on stage and shuns public interaction with fans. Neil comes off amazing in interviews but has always made it clear that he has no tolerance for a stranger encroaching on his personal space.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: RodrigoAltaf on October 18, 2019, 02:11:30 PM
Haven't listened, but based on the conversation I was also getting a Neil Peart vibe. Little to no emotion on stage and shuns public interaction with fans. Neil comes off amazing in interviews but has always made it clear that he has no tolerance for a stranger encroaching on his personal space.

I saw them here in Toronto, and Derek got me the ticket for the afterparty. I met Sheehan and spoke with him, spoke a lot more with Bumblefoot (and it helped that I had also interviewed him). Soto didn't come for the afterparty, and I met Mike as he was getting on the bus. Derek was there, but he has family in Toronto and looked like he wanted to spend time with them, so I didn't want to push my luck - it was already surreal to be there, and I just didn't want to bother him.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: MoraWintersoul on October 18, 2019, 02:42:14 PM
Derek was there, but he has family in Toronto and looked like he wanted to spend time with them, so I didn't want to push my luck - it was already surreal to be there, and I just didn't want to bother him.
Meanwhile, Derek: "thought this guy was cooler than your average journo, so I hooked him up with afterparty tix, and then the damn dude shows up and doesn't even talk to me! what the hell!"  :lol
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: RodrigoAltaf on October 18, 2019, 03:15:09 PM
Derek was there, but he has family in Toronto and looked like he wanted to spend time with them, so I didn't want to push my luck - it was already surreal to be there, and I just didn't want to bother him.
Meanwhile, Derek: "thought this guy was cooler than your average journo, so I hooked him up with afterparty tix, and then the damn dude shows up and doesn't even talk to me! what the hell!"  :lol

I'm cool alright. The Caligula of journalists!!!!
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bosk1 on October 18, 2019, 04:19:58 PM
:lol
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: MirrorMask on October 18, 2019, 04:27:57 PM
Derek's afterparties aren't what they used to be anymore. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o5FT3IGXtAk)
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bosk1 on October 18, 2019, 05:27:33 PM
Where is Derek in that scene?  I know that is Stef Burns with the guitar, and I believe Pete Friesen sitting next to him.  It's hard to tell, but when Wayne and Garth step forward about about the :25 mark and the camera quickly pans to follow them, I think that's Jimmy DeGrasso on the couch to the left of Garth (Garth's right) with the glass in his hand, but hard to tell because it is so quick.  But I can't find Derek.  (and if that wasn't Jimmy, I can't find him either)
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: RodrigoAltaf on October 18, 2019, 05:31:44 PM
Derek's afterparties aren't what they used to be anymore. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o5FT3IGXtAk)

LOL...I did mention the movie to him in the interview.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Stadler on October 18, 2019, 05:56:29 PM
Derek's afterparties aren't what they used to be anymore. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o5FT3IGXtAk)

LOL...I did mention the movie to him in the interview.

I think he said if you blink, you miss him, so...
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: TAC on October 18, 2019, 06:02:34 PM
Where is Derek in that scene?  I know that is Stef Burns with the guitar, and I believe Pete Friesen sitting next to him.  It's hard to tell, but when Wayne and Garth step forward about about the :25 mark and the camera quickly pans to follow them, I think that's Jimmy DeGrasso on the couch to the left of Garth (Garth's right) with the glass in his hand, but hard to tell because it is so quick.  But I can't find Derek.  (and if that wasn't Jimmy, I can't find him either)

That's Derek on the couch.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: RodrigoAltaf on October 18, 2019, 06:03:43 PM
TAC, he has long hair on the video.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on October 18, 2019, 06:06:03 PM
Yea I remember watching that scene only a few years ago and did a double take on Derek (I never noticed him in my younger years watching as I didnt know who he was then).  It was like a huge revelation.  Also I did listen to that part in the interview which was awesome to bring up since its such a cool little tidbit to be in that amazing scene.  WERE NOT WORTHY!
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: TAC on October 18, 2019, 06:06:24 PM
TAC, he has long hair on the video.

I know! I saw the tour twice! ;D


At the 24 second mark, that's Derek siting on the couch with a raised glass.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: TAC on October 18, 2019, 06:08:34 PM
Here's some great footage from their In Concert '91 TV appearance. Includes Vinnie Moore and Eric Singer.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dr_xZc0LeJc
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on October 18, 2019, 06:21:50 PM
he looks the exact same still  :lol
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: goo-goo on October 18, 2019, 07:21:31 PM
Damn, that's a monster tone he played over the phone in the interview. Thanks Rodrigo!
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: RodrigoAltaf on October 18, 2019, 07:28:40 PM
Damn, that's a monster tone he played over the phone in the interview. Thanks Rodrigo!

Thank YOU for listening!!!
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Shadow Ninja 2.0 on October 18, 2019, 07:39:32 PM
(http://nedroid.com/comics/2010-11-24-beartato-thanksgiving2010.png)
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: RodrigoAltaf on October 18, 2019, 07:58:15 PM
(http://nedroid.com/comics/2010-11-24-beartato-thanksgiving2010.png)

Thank you for posting that!!!!
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Orbert on October 18, 2019, 08:57:28 PM
he looks the exact same still  :lol

(https://imgur.com/1Phl1pA.jpg)
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on October 18, 2019, 09:28:28 PM
 :lol
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ReaperKK on October 18, 2019, 09:57:28 PM
I got through 75% of the interview so far and you know my opinion on Derek has changed a bit. He actually came across very pleasant in the interview.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: MoraWintersoul on October 19, 2019, 03:35:07 PM
He actually came across very pleasant in the interview.
He always came across that in every interview I've read, and some forum encounters here have been positive. Personally I think he's an alright guy who loves shooting shit online a little bit too much! Everything he wrote on this topic was like... beyond juvenile and stupid, and it was the worst promo possible for the album. But it is what it is.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: RodrigoAltaf on October 19, 2019, 03:41:16 PM
I'm 17 minutes into the interview, is pretty good so far but I had to stop because of a comment he made;

"If you are reading it, you are not feeling it" talking in regards to reading or memorizing music to play on stage. Find it funny based on recent comments made here about his stage presence  :lol

He addressed the stage presence thing later in the interview.

BTW I found the message when @Rodrigo step forward to do the interview with Derek 2 years ago.

(https://i.ibb.co/cQHvPQy/73513549-1170069016517468-3952232178544279552-n.png) (https://ibb.co/Hqs20qK)

Almost exactly two years ago it all started!!!! I'll save this image, man. And I found the recording of the first interview with Derek. Such a difference from the interviews I do today in terms of professionalism and flow...
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: MinistroRaven on October 19, 2019, 06:13:13 PM
I'm 17 minutes into the interview, is pretty good so far but I had to stop because of a comment he made;

"If you are reading it, you are not feeling it" talking in regards to reading or memorizing music to play on stage. Find it funny based on recent comments made here about his stage presence  :lol

He addressed the stage presence thing later in the interview.

BTW I found the message when @Rodrigo step forward to do the interview with Derek 2 years ago.

(https://i.ibb.co/cQHvPQy/73513549-1170069016517468-3952232178544279552-n.png) (https://ibb.co/Hqs20qK)

Almost exactly two years ago it all started!!!! I'll save this image, man. And I found the recording of the first interview with Derek. Such a difference from the interviews I do today in terms of professionalism and flow...

Repetition it's the key! And you have done it great!
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ytserush on October 19, 2019, 08:27:18 PM
He even addressed his perceived lack of engagement when he plays live, which I decided to ask him about after seeing some comments here on this topic.

I've commented on that a couple times because man....when I saw them here in St. Louis he looked like he wanted to be anywhere but on stage performing. Very curious to see how he explains that.

Yeah, it was the same out here.  I found his demeanor to be odd, honestly.  We got to the venue early to have plenty of time to grab a leisurely dinner and to see if we could maybe catch any of the band members hanging out in back.  Derek was eating at a restaurant directly across the street out on the open patio, which was literally about 50 feet from the front door of the venue.  But despite being right out in the open, he looked like he did not want to be noticed.  He was eating alone, keeping his head down, and when I looked his way a couple of times, he quickly ducked his head.  A little while later, when he was walking across the street to the venue, a fan approached him, and he looked SO offput by having to talk to the guy.  In fairness, I didn't hear anything that was being said.  But his body language conveyed that he would rather be anywhere else.  Then later when they were onstage, he looked bored and disengaged.  The only times he appeared to show any emotion were the couple of exchanges with his tech during the performance where he appeared to be very frustrated and/or angry about something.  I found him to be pretty offputting.

Haven't seen or talked to him in 20 plus years, but when he was at Birch Hill the several times I met him when he took a break from Dream Theater's soundcheck he was happy, friendly, and accommodating.  Something must have happened to him to change that. He certainly didn't appear that way on the Sons Of Apollo DVD either.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ytserush on October 19, 2019, 08:38:28 PM
Haven't listened, but based on the conversation I was also getting a Neil Peart vibe. Little to no emotion on stage and shuns public interaction with fans. Neil comes off amazing in interviews but has always made it clear that he has no tolerance for a stranger encroaching on his personal space.

He wasn't always like that.  Could you picture Neil posing for pictures, signing autographs and making small talk after a break from soundcheck? Derek did that with Dream Theater in 1995-96. I wonder what changed him? Years on the road?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ytserush on October 19, 2019, 08:43:03 PM
I got through 75% of the interview so far and you know my opinion on Derek has changed a bit. He actually came across very pleasant in the interview.

He's a nice guy (or was) which is why his behavior in this band has been very confusing (to me anyway.)
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: MinistroRaven on October 20, 2019, 09:38:30 AM
The debut from Sons Of Apollo - Psychotic Symphony came out 2 years ago today.  The band have just completed work on the follow up!
What’s your favorite on this album?

Mine? Ehhh, when the music stops!!!

Seriously I couldn’t get into them. I just hope the new album it’s something that I can enjoy
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Ben_Jamin on October 20, 2019, 11:18:45 AM
Labyrinth is pretty much the only song I enjoy.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Max Kuehnau on October 20, 2019, 11:22:43 AM
I find it hard to enjoy what they do, but to each their own.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: RodrigoAltaf on October 20, 2019, 11:39:05 AM
Alive is probably my favorite, but I like the whole album.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on October 20, 2019, 05:39:13 PM
God of the Sun maybe, but I really don't listen to the album at all.  I still need to get the blu-ray though
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Adami on October 20, 2019, 05:42:46 PM
Alive is probably my favorite, but I like the whole album.

Yea. Alive is good.  Especially when Portnoy is all like “I’m coming home”.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: gzarruk on October 20, 2019, 06:05:31 PM
I think Bumblefoot described the album quite well with "good playing, bad songs" :)
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on October 26, 2019, 10:41:33 AM
hmmmm I never got a notification, but youtube recommended my Sons of Apollo video from last year, I clicked play, it worked, I checked, and it seems my videos are back on youtube after they were taken down.  Weird.  But I am happy since I really liked the video, great video and audio quality, plus Jeff's dance moves

Sons of Apollo Live @ Playstation Theater NYC (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RUEIx4Ucoso)
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: RodrigoAltaf on November 02, 2019, 12:15:16 PM
 I met this dude just before his concert here in Toronto last night...did a great interview with him, and I'm working on the concert review. Both will be published soon. He's the nicest guy ever, and the MVP of Sons of Apollo.

(https://i.postimg.cc/kgvFwxK7/Bumblefoot.jpg)
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Architeuthis on November 02, 2019, 03:18:50 PM
Wow that's awesome!  He seems like he would be a really cool dude,  that double neck guitar looks amazing.   :metal
Look forward to reading the interview.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: RodrigoAltaf on November 02, 2019, 05:59:54 PM
Wow that's awesome!  He seems like he would be a really cool dude,  that double neck guitar looks amazing.   :metal
Look forward to reading the interview.

 He was the coolest guy ever...after soundcheck and the interview he just stood there taking pictures and talking to everybody. And he played with the opening acts too!!! The first one was a Rush cover band, and we were privileged to see Bumblefoot playing The Spirit of Radio, Red Barchetta and YYZ with them. The interview was kinda short because he was sick, but it was really comprehensive. We spoke about the tour, his clinics, the new Sons of Apollo, a possible solo album, the tour with Asia and his new line of hot sauces.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Max Kuehnau on November 02, 2019, 06:08:23 PM
you had me at "hot sauce"
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: RodrigoAltaf on November 02, 2019, 06:12:02 PM
you had me at "hot sauce"

One of the flavours is called Bumblefucked, so you kinda know what to expect.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Architeuthis on November 03, 2019, 03:40:22 AM
Wow that's awesome!  He seems like he would be a really cool dude,  that double neck guitar looks amazing.   :metal
Look forward to reading the interview.

  And he played with the opening acts too!!! The first one was a Rush cover band, and we were privileged to see Bumblefoot playing The Spirit of Radio, Red Barchetta and YYZ with them.
  :metal  :metal :metal  Oh heck yeah!!!
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Fritzinger on November 06, 2019, 04:22:03 AM
From insideout's Facebook page:

Quote
Sons Of Apollo--featuring Mike Portnoy, Derek Sherinian, Ron "Bumblefoot" Thal, Billy Sheehan, and Jeff Scott Soto --are ready to ring in the new decade with a sonic boom with their second studio album, appropriately titled, ‘MMXX’ (pronounced: 20/20).
Produced by The Del Fuvio Brothers (Portnoy and Sherinian), ‘MMXX’ will be released on the 17th January 2020 via InsideOutMusic/Sony as a standard CD package, Limited Edition 2 CD package (which includes instrumental mixes and a cappella excerpts), 2 LP + CD package, and on all digital formats. Pre-orders for all formats will be available starting November 15th, which will include an instant download of the album’s first single, “Goodbye Divinity,” on iTunes and Amazon.
Here’s the track listing for MMXX:
1. Goodbye Divinity (7:16)
2. Wither To Black (4:48)
3. Asphyxiation (5:09)
4. Desolate July (6:11)
5. King Of Delusion (8:49)
6. Fall To Ascend (5:07)
7. Resurrection Day (5:51)
8. New World Today (16:38)
In touring news, the band’s headlining “MMXX World Tour” will launch January 24th in Pomona, CA, USA and will take them around the world throughout the new year. They have also just announced European tour dates for March 2020, and you can find those below:
Europe 2020
Mon 3/2 Drammen, Norway Union Scene
Tue 3/3 Gothenburg, Sweden Traedgarn
Thu 3/5 Kyiv, Ukraine N.A.U Theatre
Sat 3/7 Moscow, Russia RED
Sun 3/8 St Petersburg, Russia Aurora
Tue 3/10 Pratteln, Switzerland Z7
Wed 3/11 Milan, Italy Live Club
Fri 3/13 Bilbao, Spain Santana 27
Sat 3/14 Barcelona, Spain Razzmatazz 2
Sun 3/15 Madrid, Spain La Riviera
Thu 3/19 London, U.K. Islington Assembly Hall
Fri 3/20 Eindhoven, Netherlands Prognosis Festival
Sun 3/22 Show Brno, Czech Republic Sono
Tue 3/24 Kosice, Slovakia Colosseum
Wed 3/25 Budapest, Hungary Barba Negra
North America 2020
Fri 1/24 Pomona, CA The Glass House
Sat 1/25 Los Angeles, CA The Roxy
Sun 1/26 San Francisco, CA The Fillmore
Tue 1/28 Salt Lake City, UT The State Room
Wed 1/29 Denver, CO The Oriental Theater
Fri 1/31 St. Charles, IL Arcada Theater
Sat 2/1 Battle Creek, MI The Music Factory
Sun 2/2 Toronto, ONT. Mod Club
Mon 2/3 Montreal QUE. Corona Theater
Wed 2/5 Boston, MA Paradise Rock Club
Thu 2/6 New York, NY Gramercy Theater
Fri 2/7 Jim Thorpe, PA Penn’s Peak
Sat 2/8 Englewood, NJ Bergen PAC

(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/75610770_10157855308970439_2095584487260815360_o.jpg?_nc_cat=106&_nc_oc=AQkRfz95HmH4S5g22BBmKihbfiGRHThI957JW2uKrwIzXgjUDY-z9LP8YmQqdYLVgmg&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=9082e69369f22fccc246021ce567848d&oe=5E653045)

This album title could not have been less interesting. Let's hope the "sonic boom" is more interesting.
Produced by The Del Fuvio Brothers. You are two grown up men in their 50s and you call yourself The Del Fuvio Brothers. Sure.

Sorry I am hating before anything is released  :lol I just can't deal with the way those guys love themselves  :lol
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: MirrorMask on November 06, 2019, 04:26:56 AM
Nice cover, meh title, interesting song titles. Any possibility it's a concept album? titles might suggest a kind of story.

I dread already the 16 minutes song, I hope it's not verse - chorus  - verse - chorus - 8 minutes of wanking - chorus  :lol
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Evermind on November 06, 2019, 05:53:44 AM
Man, what a meh title. I'll probably check out the album if there will be no trashtalk during the promo cycle. I skipped the first but seeing how they're touring Moscow again, II may go if the album is good and the stars align, mainly to just see Bumblefoot and JSS.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Train of Naught on November 06, 2019, 05:58:07 AM
What the hell is "The Del Fuvio Brothers"? They're doing so many side projects I lost track, never heard of that one. :lol

agreed with the bad album title. Eh, last album had some good moments so may just check this out
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Zydar on November 06, 2019, 06:01:27 AM
The Del Fuvio Brothers dates back from the Falling Into Infinity sessions. MP and Derek (and JP?) called themselves that when they did the backing vocals.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Grappler on November 06, 2019, 06:02:51 AM
I love the first record and am excited to hear the second.  Bring it on.   :metal
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: MoraWintersoul on November 06, 2019, 06:10:03 AM
Don't like the title of the album, the rest looks fine, might catch them on tour if I move close to the Drammen stop by then.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: MinistroRaven on November 06, 2019, 06:37:40 AM
From the band's facebook page:

Quote
The album title was inspired by a simple chronological fact. “This will be released in mid-January 2020,” says Portnoy. “That means it will be one of the first releases in what is a new decade.

Ummm, if I am not mistaken this decade started on January 1st, 2011 and will end on December 31st, 2020. Correct? So the new decade will start on January 1st, 2021 not 2020 as MP said.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: MirrorMask on November 06, 2019, 06:46:48 AM
You're right. Now someone tell Mike  ;D
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: emtee on November 06, 2019, 06:49:55 AM
I'll buy it but if I don't connect with it, this
will be my last MP purchase.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Mladen on November 06, 2019, 07:08:02 AM
From the band's facebook page:

Quote
The album title was inspired by a simple chronological fact. “This will be released in mid-January 2020,” says Portnoy. “That means it will be one of the first releases in what is a new decade.

Ummm, if I am not mistaken this decade started on January 1st, 2011 and will end on December 31st, 2020. Correct? So the new decade will start on January 1st, 2021 not 2020 as MP said.
Oh God...  :lol
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: gzarruk on November 06, 2019, 07:13:54 AM
What a waste of album title :lol  and I still think they take themelves waaaaaaay too seriously, just look at how they talk about themselves and the band. The song titles are interesting, tho.

I'm intrigued to see if this album is better than the first one, and, while I'm not a fan of this band, I'm looking forward to this one.

I dread already the 16 minutes song, I hope it's not verse - chorus  - verse - chorus - 8 minutes of wanking - chorus  :lol

You just described many of the songs on the first album perfectly :biggrin:

From the band's facebook page:

Quote
The album title was inspired by a simple chronological fact. “This will be released in mid-January 2020,” says Portnoy. “That means it will be one of the first releases in what is a new decade.

Ummm, if I am not mistaken this decade started on January 1st, 2011 and will end on December 31st, 2020. Correct? So the new decade will start on January 1st, 2021 not 2020 as MP said.
Oh God...  :lol

Being the OCD kind of guy that Mike is, he's gonna be really mad once he finds out :rollin
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: The Letter M on November 06, 2019, 07:14:49 AM
I think he means it'll be one of the first releases of the decade known as the 20's.

Quote
2020 (MMXX) will be a leap year starting on Wednesday of the Gregorian calendar, the 2020th year of the Common Era (CE) and Anno Domini (AD) designations, the 20th year of the 3rd millennium, the 20th year of the 21st century, and the 1st year of the 2020s decade.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020

But yes, we've all seen that Seinfeld episode about Newman's millennium party... :lol

-Marc.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: RuRoRul on November 06, 2019, 07:23:29 AM
From the band's facebook page:

Quote
The album title was inspired by a simple chronological fact. “This will be released in mid-January 2020,” says Portnoy. “That means it will be one of the first releases in what is a new decade.

Ummm, if I am not mistaken this decade started on January 1st, 2011 and will end on December 31st, 2020. Correct? So the new decade will start on January 1st, 2021 not 2020 as MP said.
A decade is just a period of 10 years. You can pick a decade with any start or end date. A new decade started right this second.

Since we call the first year of the current calendar year 1 A.C., then yes technically the decade that started at the beginning of year 1 only ended at the end of year 10. And the decade immediately following that started year 11 and ended year 20, so we could follow that through 21-30, 31-40... 2001-2010, 2011-2020. But there's no reason we're constrained to do that. When people refer to a decade, 90% of the time they refer to the decade that shares a common digit in the 10s (e.g. the '80s). 2000-2009 is a decade just as much as 2001-2010 is a decade, and it happens to be one that's much more easy to refer to as a group and so that's what people do.  The '80s, '90s, 2000s, 2010s and 2020s are a much more relevant and useful way to arbitrarily mark the start and end of decades than going back to a quirk of the calendar and following it through 2000 years to mark your decades in ways that are more awkward to describe and don't match what most people are using.

To be honest I sort of lost track of MP's activities and I wasn't sure how quickly there would be a follow up Sons of Apollo album. I never got into the first album much (and the drama around the project made it a bit of a chore to follow) but I liked it some and it at least had potential, so will be cautiously hopeful for this.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Samsara on November 06, 2019, 08:38:33 AM
Looking forward to the new record, 20/20. (The roman numerals are a little pretentious - lol.) Nice to see a big epic in there, a couple of longer tracks, and some standard five minute cuts.

I avoided buying the live album on principle. While I loved the show, I really took issue with JSS changing the words to Just Let Me Breathe and taking a shot at Chris Cornel. It just felt...wrong. So I spoke up with my wallet. Not like they care.  :lol But I'm excited the check out where they've gone for album number two. Hoping they were able to capture a bit of the excitement and energy from the live show and bring it to this album.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: The Walrus on November 06, 2019, 08:43:44 AM
Despite having no interest in the band, and thinking that logo of theirs with the animals and instruments is way too busy and the album name sucks - the purplishness and spacey background are dope, so it's automatically better art than the first record. The first record's art looks like the artwork of another band's tour poster to me, just some bland fancy looking wallpaper.  :lol
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Stadler on November 06, 2019, 08:49:14 AM
Just for the record, Mike changed the lyrics (https://progreport.com/sons-of-apollo-release-live-video-for-just-let-me-breathe-from-new-live-set/):  "Plus, as the song’s lyricist, I took artistic license and changed the lyric from ‘Shannon Hoon’ to ‘Chris Cornell’ to give it a little more relevance in 2019.”

I never took that to be a shot at Shannon Hoon (now Cornell) or Kurt Cobain, but rather the "big machines" for trading on the artists like a commodity, perhaps even contributing to their deaths in an indirect way, then turning around and capitalizing on it after the fact.   Not trying to change your mind - rather admire your stance, frankly; that's how you do it if you ask me - just offering another viewpoint. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Samsara on November 06, 2019, 08:57:56 AM
Just for the record, Mike changed the lyrics (https://progreport.com/sons-of-apollo-release-live-video-for-just-let-me-breathe-from-new-live-set/):  "Plus, as the song’s lyricist, I took artistic license and changed the lyric from ‘Shannon Hoon’ to ‘Chris Cornell’ to give it a little more relevance in 2019.”

I never took that to be a shot at Shannon Hoon (now Cornell) or Kurt Cobain, but rather the "big machines" for trading on the artists like a commodity, perhaps even contributing to their deaths in an indirect way, then turning around and capitalizing on it after the fact.   Not trying to change your mind - rather admire your stance, frankly; that's how you do it if you ask me - just offering another viewpoint.

"make yourself a household name."

Mike was taking a shot in my opinion. And I don't think Cornell's situation was the same as either Cobain or Hoon. It's called READ THE ROOM/SITUATION. MP tends to not see/do that sometimes. The way DT handled Cornell was extremely classy. Putting his headstone in the animations with other metal/rock legends as a way of saluting Cornell, instead of what Mike did. I was very disappointed. Again, I spoke with my wallet. MP doesn't care, but they didn't get my 30 bucks or whatever for the live release.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: MirrorMask on November 06, 2019, 09:09:11 AM
It's weird because "the big machine takes care of you until you kill yourself and then the sales go through the roof" is definitively a critic at the system, but the following stanza with "Shannon Hoon and Kurt Cobain make yourself a household name" never really seemed that much sympathetic towards those two.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: KevShmev on November 06, 2019, 09:10:21 AM
Hmmm, I wonder if Derek wrote the lyrics to track 5 and if it will be auto-biographical? :P
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: gzarruk on November 06, 2019, 09:25:53 AM
Hmmm, I wonder if Derek wrote the lyrics to track 5 and if it will be auto-biographical? :P

 :rollin
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Stadler on November 06, 2019, 12:52:24 PM
Just for the record, Mike changed the lyrics (https://progreport.com/sons-of-apollo-release-live-video-for-just-let-me-breathe-from-new-live-set/):  "Plus, as the song’s lyricist, I took artistic license and changed the lyric from ‘Shannon Hoon’ to ‘Chris Cornell’ to give it a little more relevance in 2019.”

I never took that to be a shot at Shannon Hoon (now Cornell) or Kurt Cobain, but rather the "big machines" for trading on the artists like a commodity, perhaps even contributing to their deaths in an indirect way, then turning around and capitalizing on it after the fact.   Not trying to change your mind - rather admire your stance, frankly; that's how you do it if you ask me - just offering another viewpoint.

"make yourself a household name."

Mike was taking a shot in my opinion. And I don't think Cornell's situation was the same as either Cobain or Hoon. It's called READ THE ROOM/SITUATION. MP tends to not see/do that sometimes. The way DT handled Cornell was extremely classy. Putting his headstone in the animations with other metal/rock legends as a way of saluting Cornell, instead of what Mike did. I was very disappointed. Again, I spoke with my wallet. MP doesn't care, but they didn't get my 30 bucks or whatever for the live release.

I suppose; to me, though, that line, in the context of everything else (including his view of the making of FII) can be read two ways:

"A daily does of eMpTyV will flush your mind right down the drain; Shannon Hoon and Kurt Cobain make yourself a household name" as in somehow Hoon and Cobain are at fault for somehow taking an easy way out (a "shot" as someone said above).

"A daily does of eMpTyV will flush your mind right down the drain; Shannon Hoon and Kurt Cobain make yourself a household name" said with rue and regret, as in, by your death inadvertently you have ceded control and the 'big machine" is going to take full advantage of your tragedy. 

There are probably more ways to take it, but Mike's lyrics aren't exactly Neal Peart's, and so if there is ambiguity and/or multiple interpretations, I choose to take the one that fits with the Mike I met, not the one that stood on the stage in the Phillipines or whatever.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: NoFred on November 06, 2019, 07:12:58 PM
It’s a distant memory, but didn’t Shannon Hoon directly call out DT for something, and this lyric was an explicit response to that (was he dead yet when they wrote the lyric?)

Anyway seems like putting in CC also makes it more of an industry manipulation interpretation, and not directly to the individuals (which I recall referencing SH was)
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ytserush on November 06, 2019, 07:48:51 PM
In again for the 2CD set, but I'll need to blown away by it to ever see these guys live at this point.

 The Live CD/DVD is probably it for me unless there's some growth.  If there is, I'm probably looking at Penn's Peak.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Cool Chris on November 06, 2019, 08:17:22 PM
Maybe he changed the lyric because in 2019 no one knows who the hell Shannon Hoon is.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Stadler on November 06, 2019, 08:19:24 PM
It’s a distant memory, but didn’t Shannon Hoon directly call out DT for something, and this lyric was an explicit response to that (was he dead yet when they wrote the lyric?)

Anyway seems like putting in CC also makes it more of an industry manipulation interpretation, and not directly to the individuals (which I recall referencing SH was)

Hoon died in late spring of '95.  FII came out in late '97.

It wasn't Hoon, it was his band mates.   They had one of those "rate this song" things in Guitar For The Practicing Musician" and they killed "Pull Me Under".  Ironic, in a guitar mag a couple of feel guys with one album bagging on Petrucci for playing "cock rock".

Though if you read here (http://blindmelons.proboards.com/thread/1335/blind-melon-critiques-dream-theater), the mod of their official forum says Portnoy is better than Peart, not ironically.   (The transcript of the GFTPM interview is there too).
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on November 06, 2019, 08:19:41 PM
I'm just glad the album comes out before the tour starts, that could have been a disaster IMO in the sense that this band is such on the fringe that touring without knowing the new songs could put a lot of fans on the edge of attending.  Then again, the quality of the album might do the same but I like this better.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: NoFred on November 06, 2019, 09:27:03 PM
It’s a distant memory, but didn’t Shannon Hoon directly call out DT for something, and this lyric was an explicit response to that (was he dead yet when they wrote the lyric?)

Anyway seems like putting in CC also makes it more of an industry manipulation interpretation, and not directly to the individuals (which I recall referencing SH was)

Hoon died in late spring of '95.  FII came out in late '97.

It wasn't Hoon, it was his band mates.   They had one of those "rate this song" things in Guitar For The Practicing Musician" and they killed "Pull Me Under".  Ironic, in a guitar mag a couple of feel guys with one album bagging on Petrucci for playing "cock rock".

Though if you read here (http://blindmelons.proboards.com/thread/1335/blind-melon-critiques-dream-theater), the mod of their official forum says Portnoy is better than Peart, not ironically.   (The transcript of the GFTPM interview is there too).

Nice thanks for finding, off to the blind melon board I go reading...
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Volante99 on November 06, 2019, 10:45:40 PM
I’ll give this band one more shot but the first album didn’t do much for me.

Portnoy is doing his best to keep things jamming but Derek is still using his same sounds from 1995, Billy Sheehan plays his bass like a second guitarist avoiding as much groove as possible, and Ron Thal seems...uninterested. All this could be overlooked and taken for what it is; a showcase of some extremely talented players. Unfortunately, Jeff Scott Soto plasters the proceedings with his AOR cheese fest vocals.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: MoraWintersoul on November 07, 2019, 05:01:08 AM
Never thought those lyrics were taking a shot at anyone, more at the music industry. When MP takes a shot at people in particular, it's a little less ambiguous, like Raise The Knife.

Anyone else think they're making a mistake by taking DT songs out of the setlist? FII songs are a big part of MP's and DS's musical history, they fit into their set and sound good. Many bands who can "stand on their own feet" include covers in their live sets, so why would they leave them out just to prove a point? Even Steven Wilson includes PTree into his live set nowadays, and no one says it's because his solo music isn't good enough.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: JayOctavarium on November 07, 2019, 05:36:34 AM
I think it's a mistake. It's not like they're a crutch. At least keep Lines In The Sand in the setlist. I didn't see them on the last tour, and probably won't be able to see them on this run. The fact that Mike and Derek feel the need to take DT songs out of the set is making want to spend even less effort to be able to go see them. I'd rather see LitS performed by Derek (and Mike) than the current DT lineup.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Setlist Scotty on November 07, 2019, 06:37:08 AM
Anyone else think they're making a mistake by taking DT songs out of the setlist? FII songs are a big part of MP's and DS's musical history, they fit into their set and sound good. Many bands who can "stand on their own feet" include covers in their live sets, so why would they leave them out just to prove a point? Even Steven Wilson includes PTree into his live set nowadays, and no one says it's because his solo music isn't good enough.
Not necessarily - I can see why they're doing it. They don't want to give the impression that they're trying to ride on the coattails of their previous band, which you know critics of the band will just love to use.

You cite Steven Wilson doing PT songs in his set "nowadays" - so does that mean that for a period of time he didn't? If yes, then this really isn't any different. I can imagine that if they continue with SoA in the coming years, at a certain point they'll bring a DT song back in the set, especially if for a special occasion. In particular, I can imagine them doing ACoS for an anniversary. But not right now.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Max Kuehnau on November 07, 2019, 06:49:38 AM
Anyone else think they're making a mistake by taking DT songs out of the setlist? FII songs are a big part of MP's and DS's musical history, they fit into their set and sound good. Many bands who can "stand on their own feet" include covers in their live sets, so why would they leave them out just to prove a point? Even Steven Wilson includes PTree into his live set nowadays, and no one says it's because his solo music isn't good enough.
Not necessarily - I can see why they're doing it. They don't want to give the impression that they're trying to ride on the coattails of their previous band, which you know critics of the band will just love to use.

You cite Steven Wilson doing PT songs in his set "nowadays" - so does that mean that for a period of time he didn't? If yes, then this really isn't any different. I can imagine that if they continue with SoA in the coming years, at a certain point they'll bring a DT song back in the set, especially if for a special occasion. In particular, I can imagine them doing ACoS for an anniversary. But not right now.
SW actually didn't play PT material live for a time during his solo career yes. (not until the tour for The Raven anyway) If you were to reference the Get All You Deserve live album (which is really good actually IMHO), you won't find any PT material on that live album.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Stadler on November 07, 2019, 07:17:37 AM
I get the arguments either way, and I'm good with the band decision, except... I'd rather hear something off FII than a Van Halen or an Ozzy song.   I LOVE me some Van Halen, but in it's place.   
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Madman Shepherd on November 07, 2019, 09:01:03 AM
From the band's facebook page:

Quote
The album title was inspired by a simple chronological fact. “This will be released in mid-January 2020,” says Portnoy. “That means it will be one of the first releases in what is a new decade.

Ummm, if I am not mistaken this decade started on January 1st, 2011 and will end on December 31st, 2020. Correct? So the new decade will start on January 1st, 2021 not 2020 as MP said.

Next you're gonna tell us we're not living in the 20th century!  ::)

 :lol


I'll probably get the two disc. Liner notes were cool in the first one so I hope they include extensive stuff like that again.

That said, I'm really only getting this to be a completist. Won't be making the effort to see them live at all.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: KevShmev on November 07, 2019, 09:07:03 AM
Never thought those lyrics were taking a shot at anyone, more at the music industry. When MP takes a shot at people in particular, it's a little less ambiguous, like Raise The Knife.

Anyone else think they're making a mistake by taking DT songs out of the setlist? FII songs are a big part of MP's and DS's musical history, they fit into their set and sound good. Many bands who can "stand on their own feet" include covers in their live sets, so why would they leave them out just to prove a point? Even Steven Wilson includes PTree into his live set nowadays, and no one says it's because his solo music isn't good enough.

Okay, but there are some major differences there:

1) Dream Theater is still an active band; Porcupine Tree is not.
2) Steven Wilson was always the main writer (often times, the only writer) and creative driving force of Porcupine Tree. For as many hats as Portnoy wore in Dream Theater, he never came close to equaling what Wilson did in Porcupine Tree (from an overall standpoint).
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: MinistroRaven on November 07, 2019, 09:17:16 AM
From the band's facebook page:

Quote
The album title was inspired by a simple chronological fact. “This will be released in mid-January 2020,” says Portnoy. “That means it will be one of the first releases in what is a new decade.

Ummm, if I am not mistaken this decade started on January 1st, 2011 and will end on December 31st, 2020. Correct? So the new decade will start on January 1st, 2021 not 2020 as MP said.

Next you're gonna tell us we're not living in the 20th century!  ::)

 :lol


What?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Samsara on November 07, 2019, 10:05:10 AM
re: SOA taking out DT songs from the set.

As Scotty said, I totally get why they are doing that, and I respect it. I think it is the correct move.

However, that said, being selfish, I really love FII, and really enjoyed those songs being played. And frankly, I don't see DT ever playing much from FII again, particularly as they go forward and make new records. The catalog is big, and DT honestly doesn't need to play anything from it. The majority of the fan base (which I am decidedly in the minority) doesn't really like FII all that much. I think it would be a nice touch, given that MP/DS thing, to always play a at least one song from it. It could be something like Anna Lee, re-worked, or just a nod to that record. But again, that is totally selfish on my part, being a big fan of the FII record.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on November 07, 2019, 10:13:58 AM
re: SOA taking out DT songs from the set.

As Scotty said, I totally get why they are doing that, and I respect it. I think it is the correct move.

However, that said, being selfish, I really love FII, and really enjoyed those songs being played. And frankly, I don't see DT ever playing much from FII again, particularly as they go forward and make new records. The catalog is big, and DT honestly doesn't need to play anything from it. The majority of the fan base (which I am decidedly in the minority) doesn't really like FII all that much. I think it would be a nice touch, given that MP/DS thing, to always play a at least one song from it. It could be something like Anna Lee, re-worked, or just a nod to that record. But again, that is totally selfish on my part, being a big fan of the FII record.

I'd be cool with that, but they really don't need to play DT songs now that they have enough material for a full show.  But I don't hate the idea of keeping some of those lesser played FII songs in the setlist just because its a bit more unique. 

However, I'm not sure DT won't be playing FII any less than they already do, but they've pulled out Burning My Soul and Hell's Kitchen in recent tours.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Max Kuehnau on November 07, 2019, 10:25:09 AM
re: SOA taking out DT songs from the set.

As Scotty said, I totally get why they are doing that, and I respect it. I think it is the correct move.

However, that said, being selfish, I really love FII, and really enjoyed those songs being played. And frankly, I don't see DT ever playing much from FII again, particularly as they go forward and make new records. The catalog is big, and DT honestly doesn't need to play anything from it. The majority of the fan base (which I am decidedly in the minority) doesn't really like FII all that much. I think it would be a nice touch, given that MP/DS thing, to always play a at least one song from it. It could be something like Anna Lee, re-worked, or just a nod to that record. But again, that is totally selfish on my part, being a big fan of the FII record.

I'd be cool with that, but they really don't need to play DT songs now that they have enough material for a full show.  But I don't hate the idea of keeping some of those lesser played FII songs in the setlist just because its a bit more unique. 

However, I'm not sure DT won't be playing FII any less than they already do, but they've pulled out Burning My Soul and Hell's Kitchen in recent tours.
do they actually though? (only if they were to play both albums entirely. Psychotic Symphony is about 58 minutes long and the new one will be about an hour long)
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: gzarruk on November 07, 2019, 10:27:59 AM
I get the arguments either way, and I'm good with the band decision, except... I'd rather hear something off FII than a Van Halen or an Ozzy song.   I LOVE me some Van Halen, but in it's place.

This. I never got why, if they were going to record a live album and needed some extra stuff to complete their set, they never played more DS era DT, instead of doing a bunch of overplayed covers by other bands they don't even have ties to.


However, I'm not sure DT won't be playing FII any less than they already do, but they've pulled out Burning My Soul and Hell's Kitchen in recent tours.

Peruvian Skies and Trial of Tears too.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on November 07, 2019, 10:30:35 AM
Forgot about Peruvian Skies (which is actually most recent) but when has DT played Trial of Tears recently?

re: SOA taking out DT songs from the set.

As Scotty said, I totally get why they are doing that, and I respect it. I think it is the correct move.

However, that said, being selfish, I really love FII, and really enjoyed those songs being played. And frankly, I don't see DT ever playing much from FII again, particularly as they go forward and make new records. The catalog is big, and DT honestly doesn't need to play anything from it. The majority of the fan base (which I am decidedly in the minority) doesn't really like FII all that much. I think it would be a nice touch, given that MP/DS thing, to always play a at least one song from it. It could be something like Anna Lee, re-worked, or just a nod to that record. But again, that is totally selfish on my part, being a big fan of the FII record.

I'd be cool with that, but they really don't need to play DT songs now that they have enough material for a full show.  But I don't hate the idea of keeping some of those lesser played FII songs in the setlist just because its a bit more unique. 

However, I'm not sure DT won't be playing FII any less than they already do, but they've pulled out Burning My Soul and Hell's Kitchen in recent tours.
do they actually though? (only if they were to play both albums entirely. Psychotic Symphony is about 58 minutes long and the new one will be about an hour long)

Well sounds like it if they played both albums that's 2 hours.  However, you know they will do their solo spots too so it probably means 4 or 5 less songs from the catalog but they would probably play almost everything they got.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: gzarruk on November 07, 2019, 10:34:19 AM
Forgot about Peruvian Skies (which is actually most recent) but when has DT played Trial of Tears recently?

2014, AFTR tour. It's not that "recently", but you mentioned BMS, which was played in 2015, so it's just one year before ;D
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on November 07, 2019, 10:37:23 AM
Forgot about Peruvian Skies (which is actually most recent) but when has DT played Trial of Tears recently?

2014, AFTR tour. It's not that "recently", but you mentioned BMS, which was played in 2015, so it's just one year before ;D

Fair enough, I was just thinking since MM joined really (and I still can't recall ToT, was that in Euro only? I've never seen DT play it and Ive gone to just about every tour since SC years).  It seems like FII really hasn't been ignored at all, although it's never been and never will be an album that gets lots of love.  I'd imagine we get more of it once DT stops playing full albums live. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: gzarruk on November 07, 2019, 10:44:44 AM
Forgot about Peruvian Skies (which is actually most recent) but when has DT played Trial of Tears recently?

2014, AFTR tour. It's not that "recently", but you mentioned BMS, which was played in 2015, so it's just one year before ;D

Fair enough, I was just thinking since MM joined really (and I still can't recall ToT, was that in Euro only? I've never seen DT play it and Ive gone to just about every tour since SC years).  It seems like FII really hasn't been ignored at all, although it's never been and never will be an album that gets lots of love.  I'd imagine we get more of it once DT stops playing full albums live.

They played it on the whole tour, it's even on the BTFW live album lol.

About playing more FII songs live, I just can't imagine JP not wanting to play LITS again at some point. THAT SOLO, man.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on November 07, 2019, 10:45:42 AM
 :rollin total brain fart, I saw that show three times and own the blu ray.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Samsara on November 07, 2019, 11:00:14 AM
I am assuming SOA will NOT be playing two-hour shows. My guess is more like 90-100 minutes. Not based on anything. Just my own speculation. I forget how long the shows were on the last tour (I was at my local one). But I don't think it was two hours. I think it was closer to 90 minutes, and I suspect that's all they will do as a headliner, unless it is a special show for some reason.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on November 07, 2019, 11:20:04 AM
They were an hour and 45 minutes.  A full headline set.  I expect it to be the same, that's kind of normal for a MP band to play a full show.  It's not like they are touring with a big opening band that commands a long set either. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Madman Shepherd on November 07, 2019, 11:22:43 AM
From the band's facebook page:

Quote
The album title was inspired by a simple chronological fact. “This will be released in mid-January 2020,” says Portnoy. “That means it will be one of the first releases in what is a new decade.

Ummm, if I am not mistaken this decade started on January 1st, 2011 and will end on December 31st, 2020. Correct? So the new decade will start on January 1st, 2021 not 2020 as MP said.

Next you're gonna tell us we're not living in the 20th century!  ::)

 :lol


What?

18th century = 1800s, 19th century = 1900s, right? MMXX = new decade, right? Ah forget it.



Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: hefdaddy42 on November 07, 2019, 12:01:57 PM
From the band's facebook page:

Quote
The album title was inspired by a simple chronological fact. “This will be released in mid-January 2020,” says Portnoy. “That means it will be one of the first releases in what is a new decade.

Ummm, if I am not mistaken this decade started on January 1st, 2011 and will end on December 31st, 2020. Correct? So the new decade will start on January 1st, 2021 not 2020 as MP said.

Next you're gonna tell us we're not living in the 20th century!  ::)

 :lol


What?

18th century = 1800s, 19th century = 1900s, right? MMXX = new decade, right? Ah forget it.
No.

21st Century = 2000s
20th Century = 1900s
19th Century = 1800s

etc
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bosk1 on November 07, 2019, 12:07:03 PM
They were an hour and 45 minutes.  A full headline set.  I expect it to be the same, that's kind of normal for a MP band to play a full show.  It's not like they are touring with a big opening band that commands a long set either. 

If they can, I think it would be good for them to maybe find another band that is a similar draw and do a co-headlining tour.  Out here, they were playing big clubs and small theaters, and having trouble in some markets selling those to capacity.  I think they could sell out those types of venues and possibly even move up to slightly bigger ones if they co-headlined with, say, Queensryche for example (who has been in about the same boat, I believe).
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: RodrigoAltaf on November 07, 2019, 12:57:10 PM
I'd love to see SOA booked with a similar act like Queensryche, or even supporting a band like Judas Priest.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bosk1 on November 07, 2019, 01:04:32 PM
Yeah, they just need to be smart about gaining exposure.  I don't think they will be able to stick together as a band by having Groupon sell half the tickets to a smallish venue.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on November 07, 2019, 01:08:46 PM
Yea, I'm on board with those ideas.  Just get the feeling the band doesn't want to even try going those routes.  Playing to their same fans doesnt gain you new ones. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Setlist Scotty on November 07, 2019, 01:25:30 PM
Yea, I'm on board with those ideas.  Just get the feeling the band doesn't want to even try going those routes.  Playing to their same fans doesnt gain you new ones.
Given that MP and DS are steering the ship on this one, and especially that MP is taking on a role similar to what he did in DT and that he is pretty savvy at this sort of thing, I'm sure he's already thought about that. Perhaps there weren't any offers made to them thus far. Or maybe the offers weren't worthwhile. If they are given a good opportunity to open for a bigger band, I can't imagine them taking it.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ProfessorPeart on November 07, 2019, 02:39:12 PM
Great points regarding a package deal of some sort. I know MP tried to get the Galactic Cowboys to tour with them on the first run and they declined. I would have attended if the Cowboys were there. Since they weren't, I passed.

Doesn't help that they keep playing the Arcada either. While I love the venue, the promoter overcharges immensely. That's another factor for me. Paying $40-$80 for a band with only 1 or 2 albums is steep, regardless of the members.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Madman Shepherd on November 07, 2019, 02:56:44 PM
From the band's facebook page:

Quote
The album title was inspired by a simple chronological fact. “This will be released in mid-January 2020,” says Portnoy. “That means it will be one of the first releases in what is a new decade.

Ummm, if I am not mistaken this decade started on January 1st, 2011 and will end on December 31st, 2020. Correct? So the new decade will start on January 1st, 2021 not 2020 as MP said.

Next you're gonna tell us we're not living in the 20th century!  ::)

 :lol


What?

18th century = 1800s, 19th century = 1900s, right? MMXX = new decade, right? Ah forget it.
No.

21st Century = 2000s
20th Century = 1900s
19th Century = 1800s

etc

OMG, so this isn't the 20th century and MMXX isn't a new decade?!

Anyway, yeah I know. Either my initial joke was too subversive or it just wasn't funny. Probably a little of both but more the latter.

Anyway, looking forward to Sons of Apollo's final album.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Samsara on November 07, 2019, 03:23:39 PM
Great points regarding a package deal of some sort. I know MP tried to get the Galactic Cowboys to tour with them on the first run and they declined. I would have attended if the Cowboys were there. Since they weren't, I passed.

Doesn't help that they keep playing the Arcada either. While I love the venue, the promoter overcharges immensely. That's another factor for me. Paying $40-$80 for a band with only 1 or 2 albums is steep, regardless of the members.

Slightly off-topic, but the latter is why I skipped seeing The Winery Dogs in my town. They played a venue that ridiculously overprices everything. I wasn't paying 75 bucks after charges for a seat. Not for The Winery Dogs. They are a club band. 25 or 30 bucks. I don't remember how much SOA's ticket was. I want to say it was $35. But that show was at a different venue. Where SOA played was Live Nation. Where Winery Dogs played it was independent. Which is probably the "why" behind the prices, but still.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Orbert on November 07, 2019, 03:35:38 PM
I kinda like the title "MMXX" but only because it's pronounced "Twenty-twenty" and I think Roman Numerals are cool.

They should get Barbara Walters to host the New Year's Eve on TV this year, then she can say "I'm Barbara Walters and this is 2020"
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ProfessorPeart on November 07, 2019, 04:03:23 PM
Great points regarding a package deal of some sort. I know MP tried to get the Galactic Cowboys to tour with them on the first run and they declined. I would have attended if the Cowboys were there. Since they weren't, I passed.

Doesn't help that they keep playing the Arcada either. While I love the venue, the promoter overcharges immensely. That's another factor for me. Paying $40-$80 for a band with only 1 or 2 albums is steep, regardless of the members.

Slightly off-topic, but the latter is why I skipped seeing The Winery Dogs in my town. They played a venue that ridiculously overprices everything. I wasn't paying 75 bucks after charges for a seat. Not for The Winery Dogs. They are a club band. 25 or 30 bucks. I don't remember how much SOA's ticket was. I want to say it was $35. But that show was at a different venue. Where SOA played was Live Nation. Where Winery Dogs played it was independent. Which is probably the "why" behind the prices, but still.

Exactly. I saw The Winery Dogs on the first leg of the first tour. Tickets were around $25-$30. The second leg, they played The Arcada. Promoter wanted $75. I skipped. I skipped the last tour as well for the same reason.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Anguyen92 on November 07, 2019, 05:12:24 PM
Great points regarding a package deal of some sort. I know MP tried to get the Galactic Cowboys to tour with them on the first run and they declined. I would have attended if the Cowboys were there. Since they weren't, I passed.

Doesn't help that they keep playing the Arcada either. While I love the venue, the promoter overcharges immensely. That's another factor for me. Paying $40-$80 for a band with only 1 or 2 albums is steep, regardless of the members.

Slightly off-topic, but the latter is why I skipped seeing The Winery Dogs in my town. They played a venue that ridiculously overprices everything. I wasn't paying 75 bucks after charges for a seat. Not for The Winery Dogs. They are a club band. 25 or 30 bucks. I don't remember how much SOA's ticket was. I want to say it was $35. But that show was at a different venue. Where SOA played was Live Nation. Where Winery Dogs played it was independent. Which is probably the "why" behind the prices, but still.

I saw Winery Dogs for $14.00 in Anaheim thanks to Groupon.  Capacity was 1,700 people.  Saw probably around 500-1000 people show up.  Great show though.  Promoters shouldn't really book shows in LA and Anaheim in the same week for niche bands.  You can really over-saturate a band like that and kill a show's attendance that way.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Stadler on November 07, 2019, 09:21:17 PM
^ It's not even niche bands.  I was commenting on Eddie Trunk's site about Kiss's tour, and they've done really well.  They've been over 90% capacity on all but three of their first leg shows, many at 100%, and the first not over 90% was Anaheim at 75%.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: hefdaddy42 on November 08, 2019, 08:55:56 AM
I kinda like the title "MMXX" but only because it's pronounced "Twenty-twenty" and I think Roman Numerals are cool.
It's not pronounced "Twenty twenty".  It's pronounced "Two thousand twenty".

Just like the number of the beast is not "six six six".  It's "six hundred sixty six".  That's the number.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on November 08, 2019, 09:02:54 AM
I kinda like the title "MMXX" but only because it's pronounced "Twenty-twenty" and I think Roman Numerals are cool.
It's not pronounced "Twenty twenty".  It's pronounced "Two thousand twenty".

Just like the number of the beast is not "six six six".  It's "six hundred sixty six".  That's the number.

From insideout's Facebook page:

Quote
Sons Of Apollo--featuring Mike Portnoy, Derek Sherinian, Ron "Bumblefoot" Thal, Billy Sheehan, and Jeff Scott Soto --are ready to ring in the new decade with a sonic boom with their second studio album, appropriately titled, ‘MMXX’ (pronounced: 20/20).

I get what your saying, but the band seems to want it be called twenty twenty
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: hefdaddy42 on November 08, 2019, 09:11:20 AM
I kinda like the title "MMXX" but only because it's pronounced "Twenty-twenty" and I think Roman Numerals are cool.
It's not pronounced "Twenty twenty".  It's pronounced "Two thousand twenty".

Just like the number of the beast is not "six six six".  It's "six hundred sixty six".  That's the number.

From insideout's Facebook page:

Quote
Sons Of Apollo--featuring Mike Portnoy, Derek Sherinian, Ron "Bumblefoot" Thal, Billy Sheehan, and Jeff Scott Soto --are ready to ring in the new decade with a sonic boom with their second studio album, appropriately titled, ‘MMXX’ (pronounced: 20/20).

I get what your saying, but the band seems to want it be called twenty twenty
I get what they want it to be called, but then they went and marked it up with MMXX.  It's wrong, and it's kind of a stupid wrong to be.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Lonk on November 08, 2019, 09:22:08 AM
So now we dictate if an artist is wrong for (purposely) pronouncing the album name differently than what you believe it should be?

Anyways, I'll check it out with low expections. If I'm blown away, great, if the album is just meh, at least I won't be disappointed.

Also, Re: Decades. A decade is a period of 10 years, but in terms of our calendar and how we measure time, the new decade starts on January 1st, 2020, not 2021. Same how the new millenium started on January 1st, 2000, Not 2001. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: MirrorMask on November 08, 2019, 09:30:11 AM
Also, Re: Decades. A decade is a period of 10 years, but in terms of our calendar and how we measure time, the new decade starts on January 1st, 2020, not 2021. Same how the new millenium started on January 1st, 2000, Not 2001.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/3rd_millennium

In contemporary history, the third millennium of the anno Domini or Common Era in the Gregorian calendar is the current millennium spanning the years 2001 to 3000 (21st to 30th centuries). It differs from the millennium of the 2000s, which spans the years 2000 to 2999.

Even though if you click a bit lower on the decade of the 2000s, it says The 2000s (pronounced "two-thousands") was a decade of the Gregorian calendar that began on January 1, 2000, and ended on December 31, 2009.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: gzarruk on November 08, 2019, 09:53:48 AM
Anyways, I'll check it out with low expections. If I'm blown away, great, if the album is just meh, at least I won't be disappointed.

I'll be greatly surprised if it's at least a little bit better than the first one, which wasn't too good in my book, but I kept a few songs from it anyway.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: The Letter M on November 08, 2019, 10:07:06 AM
Let's all be glad that they didn't name it "XXX" like Asia did for an album. Trying to google "Asia XXX" isn't very easy or SFW...

As for the title, it's definitely cheesy in a metal-sort-of-way, but I like it. I'm hopeful that the new material is a bit more ear-catching for me than the first album, which was *fine*, but nothing stood out for me and I haven't really listened to it much since its release.

-Marc.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on November 08, 2019, 11:04:02 AM
I kinda like the title "MMXX" but only because it's pronounced "Twenty-twenty" and I think Roman Numerals are cool.
It's not pronounced "Twenty twenty".  It's pronounced "Two thousand twenty".

Just like the number of the beast is not "six six six".  It's "six hundred sixty six".  That's the number.

From insideout's Facebook page:

Quote
Sons Of Apollo--featuring Mike Portnoy, Derek Sherinian, Ron "Bumblefoot" Thal, Billy Sheehan, and Jeff Scott Soto --are ready to ring in the new decade with a sonic boom with their second studio album, appropriately titled, ‘MMXX’ (pronounced: 20/20).

I get what your saying, but the band seems to want it be called twenty twenty
I get what they want it to be called, but then they went and marked it up with MMXX.  It's wrong, and it's kind of a stupid wrong to be.

I dont understand the logic, it's a form of art and that's their interpretation.  It's kind of cheesy to me, I don't love or hate it though, but its hard to say their artistic expression of a date is wrong even if factually it may be. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bosk1 on November 08, 2019, 11:05:52 AM
Let's all be glad that they didn't name it "XXX" like Asia did for an album. Trying to google "Asia XXX" isn't very easy or SFW...
:rollin
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Orbert on November 08, 2019, 11:09:18 AM
I kinda like the title "MMXX" but only because it's pronounced "Twenty-twenty" and I think Roman Numerals are cool.
It's not pronounced "Twenty twenty".  It's pronounced "Two thousand twenty".

Just like the number of the beast is not "six six six".  It's "six hundred sixty six".  That's the number.

I'm not saying that the number represented by Roman numerals MMXX is prounced "twenty twenty"; I'm saying that the title of the album MMXX is pronounced "twenty twenty" and I like that because I like the sound of it.  That's why I specified that in my above statement.  I know how to pronounce numbers.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Orbert on November 08, 2019, 11:11:37 AM
Hey, for a fun exercise, say the following numbers out loud:

1820
1920
2020
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: MoraWintersoul on November 08, 2019, 11:15:12 AM
 :lol May I remind this forum that we all went ahead and called DT's self-titled DT12! If the band says "yeah, we call it 2020", might as well. This is just easier to google.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Stadler on November 08, 2019, 11:18:15 AM
I dont understand the logic, it's a form of art and that's their interpretation.  It's kind of cheesy to me, I don't love or hate it though, but its hard to say their artistic expression of a date is wrong even if factually it may be.

This.

I'm half in agreement with Hef, though.  I don't understand the reference to the Number Of The Beast (Bruce is CLEARLY singing "six! six! six!" and it's not uncommon for the number of the beast to be phrased as "six, six, six", much like area codes are enunciated in numbers), but if the band wanted it pronounced "20/20" AND they wanted it grammatically correct, they could have written it "20/20", or "XX/XX". 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: hefdaddy42 on November 08, 2019, 11:19:51 AM
I kinda like the title "MMXX" but only because it's pronounced "Twenty-twenty" and I think Roman Numerals are cool.
It's not pronounced "Twenty twenty".  It's pronounced "Two thousand twenty".

Just like the number of the beast is not "six six six".  It's "six hundred sixty six".  That's the number.

From insideout's Facebook page:

Quote
Sons Of Apollo--featuring Mike Portnoy, Derek Sherinian, Ron "Bumblefoot" Thal, Billy Sheehan, and Jeff Scott Soto --are ready to ring in the new decade with a sonic boom with their second studio album, appropriately titled, ‘MMXX’ (pronounced: 20/20).

I get what your saying, but the band seems to want it be called twenty twenty
I get what they want it to be called, but then they went and marked it up with MMXX.  It's wrong, and it's kind of a stupid wrong to be.

I dont understand the logic, it's a form of art and that's their interpretation.  It's kind of cheesy to me, I don't love or hate it though, but its hard to say their artistic expression of a date is wrong even if factually it may be.
Look, I don't even like the band that much, so there is only so much of a shit I give about this.

But I don't buy the "artistic expression" line.  It's just a mistake.  I am not going to pretend it's not a mistake.  I am not extending the benefit of the doubt.

If they want to name it MMXX because Roman numerals are cool AND pronounce it "Twenty Twenty" then they are wrong about one of those choices.  "Twenty Twenty" in Roman Numerals would XX XX. 

Hey, I haven't been pedantic in a while. 

That is all.

EDIT:  There you go, Stads.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bosk1 on November 08, 2019, 11:23:50 AM
I kinda like the title "MMXX" but only because it's pronounced "Twenty-twenty" and I think Roman Numerals are cool.
It's not pronounced "Twenty twenty".  It's pronounced "Two thousand twenty".

Just like the number of the beast is not "six six six".  It's "six hundred sixty six".  That's the number.

From insideout's Facebook page:

Quote
Sons Of Apollo--featuring Mike Portnoy, Derek Sherinian, Ron "Bumblefoot" Thal, Billy Sheehan, and Jeff Scott Soto --are ready to ring in the new decade with a sonic boom with their second studio album, appropriately titled, ‘MMXX’ (pronounced: 20/20).

I get what your saying, but the band seems to want it be called twenty twenty
I get what they want it to be called, but then they went and marked it up with MMXX.  It's wrong, and it's kind of a stupid wrong to be.

I dont understand the logic, it's a form of art and that's their interpretation.  It's kind of cheesy to me, I don't love or hate it though, but its hard to say their artistic expression of a date is wrong even if factually it may be.
Look, I don't even like the band that much, so there is only so much of a shit I give about this.

But I don't buy the "artistic expression" line.  It's just a mistake.  I am not going to pretend it's not a mistake.  I am not extending the benefit of the doubt.

If they want to name it MMXX because Roman numerals are cool AND pronounce it "Twenty Twenty" then they are wrong about one of those choices.  "Twenty Twenty" in Roman Numerals would XX XX. 

Hey, I haven't been pedantic in a while. 

That is all.

EDIT:  There you go, Stads.

Wrong.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Orbert on November 08, 2019, 11:32:18 AM
MMXX in Roman numerals is exactly equal to 2020 in Arabic numerals, and many people pronounce 2020 as "twenty twenty".  Doesn't matter if it's technically incorrect according to some book or reference, if people pronounce it that way and it is a common interpretation, then it's a valid pronunciation.  Language, especially vernacular, is fluid and dynamic.  I've had the exact same argument thrown at me for being a pedant.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Lupton on November 08, 2019, 11:50:52 AM
If the number is in reference to a year then it makes sense to say "twenty twenty" -- because that's how all years are always verbalized. No one ever says: "I was born in the year one thousand nine hundred and seventy five." Also, it shouldn't make a difference if the number in question is expressed in either roman or numeric numerals.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: hefdaddy42 on November 08, 2019, 12:18:30 PM
Yeah.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Stadler on November 08, 2019, 12:46:37 PM
If the number is in reference to a year then it makes sense to say "twenty twenty" -- because that's how all years are always verbalized. No one ever says: "I was born in the year one thousand nine hundred and seventy five." Also, it shouldn't make a difference if the number in question is expressed in either roman or numeric numerals.

Paul McCartney does.  :)
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Lupton on November 08, 2019, 02:14:12 PM
If the number is in reference to a year then it makes sense to say "twenty twenty" -- because that's how all years are always verbalized. No one ever says: "I was born in the year one thousand nine hundred and seventy five." Also, it shouldn't make a difference if the number in question is expressed in either roman or numeric numerals.

Paul McCartney does.  :)
LOL Well then, I suppost I stand corrected.  :hat

Didn't Paul also thank the superbowl itself when he did the halftime show? "Thank you superbowl!" Don't know why I think that's so funny.

OK de-railing over, I may actually check this release out if Bumblefoot says they spent more time on the songs.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: DragonAttack on November 13, 2019, 02:37:18 AM
I kinda like the title "MMXX" but only because it's pronounced "Twenty-twenty" and I think Roman Numerals are cool.

They should get Barbara Walters to host the New Year's Eve on TV this year, then she can say "I'm Barbara Walters and this is 2020"

Maybe the new album will start with Gilda Radner saying, "This is Babahwa Wawa, and this is twenty twenty" with the band then blasting away.  That might be the only thing to make me take notice of this release.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: RodrigoAltaf on November 13, 2019, 08:20:55 AM
This is how the album starts: https://youtu.be/1JJuffjeSro

Who hears a touch of DT's New Millennium?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Adami on November 13, 2019, 09:00:05 AM
This is how the album starts: https://youtu.be/1JJuffjeSro

Who hears a touch of DT's New Millennium?

Time stamp? Not listening to a 20 min thing
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: MinistroRaven on November 13, 2019, 09:16:59 AM
This is how the album starts: https://youtu.be/1JJuffjeSro

Who hears a touch of DT's New Millennium?

Time stamp? Not listening to a 20 min thing

It's only 40 seconds
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: gzarruk on November 13, 2019, 09:18:53 AM
This is how the album starts: https://youtu.be/1JJuffjeSro

Who hears a touch of DT's New Millennium?

Time stamp? Not listening to a 20 min thing

It's only 40 seconds

The link he posted is to the 20 min interview with Bumblefoot :P
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: The Letter M on November 13, 2019, 10:17:23 AM
https://youtu.be/485KSA6A_zw

Here is the teaser.

-Marc.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ReaperKK on November 13, 2019, 10:18:58 AM
That sounds very similar to new millennium
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Fritzinger on November 13, 2019, 10:23:16 AM
I think that sounds terrible  :lol And is it just me or are they out of sync?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: eric42434224 on November 13, 2019, 10:31:28 AM
Yeah I thought the same.  I cant believe that is an official teaser.  It sounds horrible....like a keyboardist is working out some ideas for a song.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on November 13, 2019, 10:35:46 AM
It doesn't sound much like anything to me, I'm not sure what's terrible about it though, it just doesn't sound like anything to get "teased" about
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: eric42434224 on November 13, 2019, 10:38:18 AM
It doesn't sound much like anything to me, I'm not sure what's terrible about it though, it just doesn't sound like anything to get "teased" about

Yes I think that is more of what I meant to say.  On its own, like as an isolated keyboard track on a song, it isn't horrible.
Like you I think it is a horrible teaser for an album.  I kept waiting for the rest of the band to join in....but never does.... ???
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on November 13, 2019, 10:54:57 AM
Nor does it really lead to anything, like sometimes these teasers are a highlight part of the song or sometimes its the beginning right up to where it gets interesting, ya know, leaving you wanting more.  A tease.  I'm not sure what this does.  Either way, the song will be out soon enough it seems. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Adami on November 13, 2019, 10:57:53 AM
I mean, as a keyboard riff I thought it was fine.

Didn't make me feel anything good or bad. Just kind of...there. Maybe not the response an artist wants though.





I say that as a musician who mostly gets apathy as the response lol
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: KevShmev on November 13, 2019, 12:03:33 PM
Yep, sounds a little like New Millennium, but without the annoying vocals.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on November 13, 2019, 12:08:50 PM
 :lol
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Stadler on November 13, 2019, 12:10:45 PM
Yep, sounds a little like New Millennium, but without the annoying vocals.

Haha.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: MirrorMask on November 13, 2019, 12:12:06 PM
Seems just an intro, for all we know the song goes completely into a different direction. We'll see.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Northern Lion on November 13, 2019, 02:01:02 PM
I thought it sounded pretty good.  At least it made me interested enough to hear the rest of the song.  I guess there is a NM feel?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bosk1 on November 13, 2019, 02:18:04 PM
I guess there is a NM feel?

I wouldn't say there is a "NM feel."  But where people are getting NM is from the fact that the note progression is similar to the chord progression (I say "similar" because I believe it is in a different key) in the heavy, half-time part of the intro just before the vocals kick in (and keeps going underneath the vocals for a bit).
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Samsara on November 13, 2019, 02:23:49 PM
I'll always get a FII vibe, just because Derek's tone is distinctive. At least to me.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on November 13, 2019, 02:25:53 PM
So I just realized I never got the Plovdiv blu-ray, as much as the MP talk has been entertaining, does anyone know where I can just get the blu-ray?  It seems amazon only has the CD/Blu-Ray/DVD pack which is just overload.  I only want a blu-ray and don't want to pay for the extras (I absolutely hate when they package a DVD and Blu-ray together, very redundant).  I remember someone shared that walmart sold this but I didn't buy back then since I wasn't going to be home for a bit to receive it.  Now I can't find it, including even in the inside out store. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: romdrums on November 13, 2019, 02:39:25 PM
A single star behind me, a red sky burns ahead.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: DTA on November 13, 2019, 02:41:10 PM
If MMXX is just a rewrite of FII then I'd probably actually like it.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bosk1 on November 13, 2019, 02:47:22 PM
If MMXX is just a rewrite of FII then I'd probably actually like it.

It's a tricky balance, and I think they need to be very careful in walking that line.  On one hand, if there are subtle callbacks to FII, I generally love that kind of thing and think it can be clever.  But more than a nod or two will definitely feel too much, and feel to me like they are relying too much on Mike's and Derek's connection to a more well-known brand (DT) than on their ability to forge their own identity as a band.  To give an example, when Queensryche did their s/t album after Tate was dismissed and LaTorre took over, there were a coupe of subtle references to their prior work, and I thought that was pretty cool and pretty fitting.  But, at least lyrically, that trend continued on Condition Human, and I felt like it crossed the line and actually detracted.  That line is very different for different people, and I think it's dangerous for them to even approach it, because it may alienate fans who just write them off as relying on their past and not having anything to say musically.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: RodrigoAltaf on November 13, 2019, 02:52:37 PM
This is how the album starts: https://youtu.be/1JJuffjeSro

Who hears a touch of DT's New Millennium?

Time stamp? Not listening to a 20 min thing

It's only 40 seconds

The link he posted is to the 20 min interview with Bumblefoot :P

LOL... I'm sorry man! I was also sharing the interview with some of my friends and got confused!
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Samsara on November 13, 2019, 03:01:39 PM
If MMXX is just a rewrite of FII then I'd probably actually like it.

It's a tricky balance, and I think they need to be very careful in walking that line.  On one hand, if there are subtle callbacks to FII, I generally love that kind of thing and think it can be clever.  But more than a nod or two will definitely feel too much, and feel to me like they are relying too much on Mike's and Derek's connection to a more well-known brand (DT) than on their ability to forge their own identity as a band.  To give an example, when Queensryche did their s/t album after Tate was dismissed and LaTorre took over, there were a coupe of subtle references to their prior work, and I thought that was pretty cool and pretty fitting.  But, at least lyrically, that trend continued on Condition Human, and I felt like it crossed the line and actually detracted.  That line is very different for different people, and I think it's dangerous for them to even approach it, because it may alienate fans who just write them off as relying on their past and not having anything to say musically.

I don't really get a rewrite or a call back to Falling Into Infinity. It's just Derek's tone and style. It naturally sounds that way. Now if the new SOA record has lyric lines that copy or call back to FII repeatedly, then I'd feel differently. But if their first record didn't have those, I don't think the second one would. What would be the point then, ya know? Unless I missed the call backs on the first SOA record.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ProfessorPeart on November 13, 2019, 03:15:14 PM
So I just realized I never got the Plovdiv blu-ray, as much as the MP talk has been entertaining, does anyone know where I can just get the blu-ray?  It seems amazon only has the CD/Blu-Ray/DVD pack which is just overload.  I only want a blu-ray and don't want to pay for the extras (I absolutely hate when they package a DVD and Blu-ray together, very redundant).  I remember someone shared that walmart sold this but I didn't buy back then since I wasn't going to be home for a bit to receive it.  Now I can't find it, including even in the inside out store.

Laser CD. The US outlet for Inside Out.

https://www.lasercd.com/dvd/live-plovdiv-psychotic-symphony-blu-ray
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: DTA on November 13, 2019, 03:17:50 PM
If MMXX is just a rewrite of FII then I'd probably actually like it.

It's a tricky balance, and I think they need to be very careful in walking that line.  On one hand, if there are subtle callbacks to FII, I generally love that kind of thing and think it can be clever.  But more than a nod or two will definitely feel too much, and feel to me like they are relying too much on Mike's and Derek's connection to a more well-known brand (DT) than on their ability to forge their own identity as a band.  To give an example, when Queensryche did their s/t album after Tate was dismissed and LaTorre took over, there were a coupe of subtle references to their prior work, and I thought that was pretty cool and pretty fitting.  But, at least lyrically, that trend continued on Condition Human, and I felt like it crossed the line and actually detracted.  That line is very different for different people, and I think it's dangerous for them to even approach it, because it may alienate fans who just write them off as relying on their past and not having anything to say musically.

I don't really get a rewrite or a call back to Falling Into Infinity. It's just Derek's tone and style. It naturally sounds that way. Now if the new SOA record has lyric lines that copy or call back to FII repeatedly, then I'd feel differently. But if their first record didn't have those, I don't think the second one would. What would be the point then, ya know? Unless I missed the call backs on the first SOA record.

I was kidding mainly. I love FII and don't like SoA/Psychotic Symphony, so the only way I'd probably like it is if it was a complete FII ripoff.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on November 13, 2019, 03:21:10 PM
So I just realized I never got the Plovdiv blu-ray, as much as the MP talk has been entertaining, does anyone know where I can just get the blu-ray?  It seems amazon only has the CD/Blu-Ray/DVD pack which is just overload.  I only want a blu-ray and don't want to pay for the extras (I absolutely hate when they package a DVD and Blu-ray together, very redundant).  I remember someone shared that walmart sold this but I didn't buy back then since I wasn't going to be home for a bit to receive it.  Now I can't find it, including even in the inside out store.

Laser CD. The US outlet for Inside Out.

https://www.lasercd.com/dvd/live-plovdiv-psychotic-symphony-blu-ray


perfect, thank you.  Ordered that and the Devin Townsend Plovdiv Blu-Ray, only had that one on CD/DVD since I couldn't find the blu-ray last year   :facepalm: now I know better, but I personally find the blu-ray to be totally worth it over the DVD.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Spiritus on November 13, 2019, 05:30:48 PM
Yep, sounds a little like New Millennium, but without the annoying vocals.
I loled
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ReaperKK on November 13, 2019, 05:48:00 PM
Yep, sounds a little like New Millennium, but without the annoying vocals.

:lol
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: IDontNotDoThings on November 13, 2019, 06:52:53 PM
If MMXX is just a rewrite of FII then I'd probably actually like it.

Maybe this time it'll be actually good. :corn
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: KevShmev on November 13, 2019, 08:13:06 PM
If MMXX is just a rewrite of FII then I'd probably actually like it.

Maybe this time it'll be actually good. :corn

Woah, woah, woah! Simmer down there, sparky.  Falling into Infinity is damn good as is.  :coolio
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Northern Lion on November 13, 2019, 08:48:22 PM
If MMXX is just a rewrite of FII then I'd probably actually like it.

Maybe this time it'll be actually good. :corn

Woah, woah, woah! Simmer down there, sparky.  Falling into Infinity is damn good as is.  :coolio

Well FII is one of those controversial albums.  You either like it or you don't.  Although it seems that more folks on this forum view it more favorably now than they did 10 years ago when I first started lurking.

I for one like it and I think NM is an awesome song.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: gzarruk on November 14, 2019, 05:20:12 AM
If MMXX is just a rewrite of FII then I'd probably actually like it.

Maybe this time it'll be actually good. :corn

Woah, woah, woah! Simmer down there, sparky.  Falling into Infinity is damn good as is.  :coolio

Well FII is one of those controversial albums.  You either like it or you don't.  Although it seems that more folks on this forum view it more favorably now than they did 10 years ago when I first started lurking.

I for one like it and I think NM is an awesome song.

I like it, but don’t love it, and it’s definitely a bottom 3 album from the DT catalog for me. Still quite good tho.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on November 14, 2019, 11:51:51 AM
I feel the same, its bottom tier DT for me but has good songs and isn't a bad album at all.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bill1971 on November 14, 2019, 12:34:19 PM
First tour date Jan 24th 2020
Live album to be released Jan 30th 2020





Yes, I am kidding
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bill1971 on November 14, 2019, 12:35:13 PM
Yep, sounds a little like New Millennium, but without the annoying vocals.

 :rollin
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bill1971 on November 14, 2019, 12:38:09 PM
I didn't care for the 1st album too much and I wasn't going to buy especially after MP's comments towards Labrie BUT after that teaser, how can I resist?? An instant first day buy!
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: MinistroRaven on November 14, 2019, 12:56:28 PM
Burning Shed pre order link: https://burningshed.com/tag/Sons+Of+Apollo?utm_source=Newsletter+14+11+2019&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Newsletter+14+11+2019
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: MinistroRaven on November 14, 2019, 12:59:12 PM
Burning Shed pre order link: https://burningshed.com/tag/Sons+Of+Apollo?utm_source=Newsletter+14+11+2019&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Newsletter+14+11+2019

One of the CD options include the following info:

CD1
1 Goodbye Divinity 00:07:15
2 Wither To Black 00:04:44
3 Asphyxiation 00:05:07
4 Desolate July 00:05:58
5 King Of Delusion 00:08:48
6 Fall To Ascend 00:05:06
7 Resurrection Day 00:05:51
8 New World Today 00:15:50
 
CD2
1. Goodbye Divinity (Instrumental Mix) 00:07:19
2. Wither To Black (Instrumental Mix) 00:04:46
3. Asphyxiation (Instrumental Mix) 00:05:06
4. Desolate July (Instrumental Mix) 00:06:09
5. King Of Delusion (Instrumental Mix) 00:08:47
6. Fall To Ascend (Instrumental Mix) 00:05:06
7. Resurrection Day (Instrumental Mix) 00:05:49
8. New World Today (Instrumental Mix 00:12:56
9. Goodbye Divinity (A cappella excerpts) 00:02:40
10. Wither To Black (A cappella excerpts) 00:02:55
11. Asphyxiation (A cappella excerpts) 00:02:26
12. Desolate July (A cappella excerpts) 00:02:53
13. King Of Delusion (A cappella excerpts) 00:03:29
14. Fall To Ascend (A cappella excerpts) 00:02:02
15. Resurrection Day (A cappella excerpts) 00:02:08
16. New World Today (A cappella excerpts) 00:04:14
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ReaperKK on November 14, 2019, 06:23:01 PM
Thank god we get an instrumental mix without the annoying vocals
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: MinistroRaven on November 14, 2019, 06:48:06 PM
Thank god we get an instrumental mix without the annoying vocals

 :rollin
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: jadiggerdt on November 14, 2019, 11:35:51 PM
OMG so dull and uninspired the new single was. Ok the guys ran in the studio and produce something fast but this was a little disappointing stuff :sad:
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: IDontNotDoThings on November 14, 2019, 11:48:13 PM
New single out: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=cAY8rA_4YMg

I thought it was alright. I liked the song itself, but the guitars are tuned so low that their note definition is muddy, the solo was grooveless shredding, & the keyboard patches sound like shit.

Still though, when I can ignore all that, it's a good song.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: MirrorMask on November 15, 2019, 05:06:54 AM
Nice and solid song, it's groovy. For the punch and the heaviness it had, I expected a more bombastic chorus, which isn't bad but isn't either the standout part of the song.

It's completely in line with the debut, is the whole album is at this level or better, we'll have a nice and solid offering. I also like how the solo section is not a complete "Stop, jam and come back into the song" thing but stays in tune with the rest of the song, let's hope it's the same for all the other songs.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: nikatapi on November 15, 2019, 05:12:49 AM
Good intro, the song fell a bit meh afterwards.

Also i find it weird that i can predict MP's playing without having heard the song first.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Architeuthis on November 15, 2019, 05:26:30 AM
Sounds pretty good to me!   :tup
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: devieira73 on November 15, 2019, 05:56:37 AM
I liked it a lot! It sounds like a cross between FII and Soto’s Origami. The instrumental sections are really good!
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: MoraWintersoul on November 15, 2019, 06:47:42 AM
Nice tune, I like it.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Grappler on November 15, 2019, 06:57:56 AM
I dig it - groovy and heavy.  Pretty much what I expected, given the style of the debut record.  I do agree that the chorus could have been bigger, but whatever....these guys are a fun band to listen to.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: MinistroRaven on November 15, 2019, 07:01:03 AM
https://www.sonicperspectives.com/news/watch-sons-of-apollo-first-single-goodbye-divinity
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Adami on November 15, 2019, 07:08:38 AM
It was okay. Intro was nice. Rest was pretty generic/by the numbers, but nothing really bad about it. Just bland. Though I might just feel this way about the SoA sound in general.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Trav86 on November 15, 2019, 07:12:19 AM
Good intro, the song fell a bit meh afterwards.

Also i find it weird that i can predict MP's playing without having heard the song first.

He’s been like that since Train of Thought.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on November 15, 2019, 07:46:18 AM
Not bad, but not memorable either
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: New World Rushman on November 15, 2019, 08:07:29 AM
Lyrics:
"A single star behind me"

Oh wait...
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: MinistroRaven on November 15, 2019, 08:08:46 AM
Here's the musical video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wZlyaCqqZ0A

(the other link was only audio)
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ErHaO on November 15, 2019, 08:13:46 AM
I enjoyed the song quite a bit!
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bill1971 on November 15, 2019, 08:23:52 AM
Good intro, the song fell a bit meh afterwards.

Also i find it weird that i can predict MP's playing without having heard the song first.

Yes, I also noticed that in the last few DT albums he played on. While listening to it, I realize that the ONLY reason I am listening to it is because it has 2 EX DT members. The only thing that sticks out on the song that I enjoyed is Ron Thal's playing, the drums are predictable, not bad he is a very good drummer, the singing is generic the song is general has a very been there done that feel to it so for those reasons I am out.

(https://sayingimages.com/wp-content/uploads/that-season-im-out-meme-1024x639.jpg)
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bosk1 on November 15, 2019, 08:34:35 AM
First listen didn't do much for me.  I am warming up to it a bit the second time through.  I feel like it's a step down from the previous album.  But I am still very much open to giving this time to marinate and hearing the rest.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Madman Shepherd on November 15, 2019, 08:51:54 AM
Good intro, the song fell a bit meh afterwards.

Also i find it weird that i can predict MP's playing without having heard the song first.

Yes, I also noticed that in the last few DT albums he played on. While listening to it, I realize that the ONLY reason I am listening to it is because it has 2 EX DT members.

Same here. I guess I also find Bumblefoot's inclusion a little interesting. Unlike you, my Achilles heel is being a completist mixed with at least a moderate interest in the product, so that means I'll be buying this.

The intro was pretty cool. Perfect use of the fretless guitar which I feel a lot of times is there more for a gimmicky, albeit sometimes cool purpose. Rest of the song was average but definitely listenable. I'd say overall it would have been an above average tune on a very average to below average debut album. Much better than their first single from Psychotic Symphony so I don't know if that's a good sign or not.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Podaar on November 15, 2019, 08:53:58 AM
Here's the musical video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wZlyaCqqZ0A

(the other link was only audio)

Watching them play was way better than just listening. I appreciated the song more the second time.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: gmillerdrake on November 15, 2019, 09:01:10 AM
Also i find it weird that i can predict MP's playing without having heard the song first.

Yeah. We've beat this to death but his "repertoire" of fills.....ghost notes.....etc etc is pretty predictable. Especially given the amount of projects he has it's just over-saturation of his playing.

I know it's almost a 'pride' thing for him when he says he doesn't practice and you can tell at this point.  Opposed to MM who religiously practices and tries to improve and his music speaks for itself.   
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Anxiety35 on November 15, 2019, 09:30:33 AM
Derek and Bubmbleboot seem more cohesive in the middle/solo section. I liked that part. Felt a little Planet X in there.

The song itself is pretty good. Nothing "groundbreaking" but it's solid. It's an improvement in the aspect of writing a song.

I wish Soto would let loose with his vocals. Seems he stays in a restricted place with SOA except for his "yeah!" here and there.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bosk1 on November 15, 2019, 09:31:42 AM
Yeah. We've beat this to death but his "repertoire" of fills.....ghost notes.....etc etc is pretty predictable.

And I will go back to beating to death the point that I fail to see how this matters at all.  Of all the things to criticize about MP, this isn't one of them.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bill1971 on November 15, 2019, 09:44:16 AM
Yeah. We've beat this to death but his "repertoire" of fills.....ghost notes.....etc etc is pretty predictable.

And I will go back to beating to death the point that I fail to see how this matters at all.  Of all the things to criticize about MP, this isn't one of them.

Speaking only for myself it matters to me because drums are my favorite instrument so I listen to it most closely. Ironically, it was one of the major things that got me into DT back in 1994. Mangini and Peart works on improving their craft and it showed. It's nothing personal against him, it works for him, he has a very successful career.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: gmillerdrake on November 15, 2019, 09:50:13 AM
Yeah. We've beat this to death but his "repertoire" of fills.....ghost notes.....etc etc is pretty predictable.

And I will go back to beating to death the point that I fail to see how this matters at all.  Of all the things to criticize about MP, this isn't one of them.

With all due respect, I think it kind of is. If he's interested in gearing up excitement about his new band or a new release.....yet.....I and a ton of other people more or less 'know' what we're going to hear from him.....then it's really not that appealing. Literally the first fill in that new SOA song is a fill that he's played hundreds of times.

I think it's a fair criticism. I'm not trying to rip on him just to rip on him....it's just pointing out that he's done little to 'improve' his product.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: The Walrus on November 15, 2019, 10:01:48 AM
I think it's a valid criticism. Mike's playing stagnated quite some time ago and it's the same bag of tricks each time, partially because he himself admits to not practicing, or not practicing much (30 minutes is apparently a 'long time' to practice one part, even though... it really isn't). Not like he's a bad drummer or anything, but he's predictable by now. Whether or not that's a big deal depends on how much that matters to the individual. But I think it's a valid critique if you word it properly.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: TAC on November 15, 2019, 10:02:44 AM
Especially when voicing an opinion on something new and recent.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Stadler on November 15, 2019, 10:03:13 AM
Yeah. We've beat this to death but his "repertoire" of fills.....ghost notes.....etc etc is pretty predictable.

And I will go back to beating to death the point that I fail to see how this matters at all.  Of all the things to criticize about MP, this isn't one of them.

I'm with Bosk on this, if it matters.  I'm not sure using Mangini is necessarily an objective standard.  There are FAR more times I listen to Mangini and think, "dude, just fuckin' PLAY" than there are times I listen to Portnoy and thing, "dude, kick it up a notch".   I've said this before:  Mangini has a way of making 4/4 sound like 27/15, and Portnoy has a way of making 27/15 sound like 4/4, and it's all personal preference which you like (I prefer the latter). 

I'm in a conundrum with the song though; I liked some of it (the intro, Mike, the solos) and didn't like others (the E-string chug that comes in at about 1:50 is about as cliched as it gets), and as much as he's a nice guy, as much as he's a team player, as much as I recognize his technical ability... Jeff singing in that middle register just does less than nothing for me.  It's so generic, that it doesn't even deserve to be labelled as "generic".   I say that to be funny not mean, but it's just not giving me shivers. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: TAC on November 15, 2019, 10:05:57 AM
I think calling JSS generic is beating to death the point at this point.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: The Walrus on November 15, 2019, 10:06:25 AM
I'm listening to it now and Soto sounds 100% like a lite A-Mob Russell Allen. It's weird
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Stadler on November 15, 2019, 10:14:22 AM
I'm listening to it now and Soto sounds 100% like a lite A-Mob Russell Allen. It's weird

Haha, buddy!   :tup  I literally thought that same thing during the first verse!  :)
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Trav86 on November 15, 2019, 10:17:09 AM
Lost me with the fedora.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bosk1 on November 15, 2019, 10:21:19 AM
Not like he's a bad drummer or anything, but he's predictable by now.

I understand what you are saying, factually.  I just don't get why it is a criticism.  The vast, vast majority of drummers out there are predictable after you've heard the first few albums from them.  It's kinda the nature of the job.  So, yeah, I pick up an album with MP on it, and I don't usually hear much in the drum department that surprises me.  But I can usually say the same thing about pretty much any other drummer on any other album I listen to as well. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Trav86 on November 15, 2019, 10:23:24 AM
As a drummer who grew up listening to and learning from MP. It’s kind of annoying seeing him still get recognized in magazines for “Prog Drummer”. Especially since he hasn’t progressed.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: The Walrus on November 15, 2019, 10:28:58 AM
Not like he's a bad drummer or anything, but he's predictable by now.

I understand what you are saying, factually.  I just don't get why it is a criticism.  The vast, vast majority of drummers out there are predictable after you've heard the first few albums from them.  It's kinda the nature of the job.  So, yeah, I pick up an album with MP on it, and I don't usually hear much in the drum department that surprises me.  But I can usually say the same thing about pretty much any other drummer on any other album I listen to as well.

Well, it's a criticism by its fundamental nature. He's making art, and people are pointing out things they like or dislike about it. It's perfectly valid criticism. Other musicians being predictable doesn't mean it's not a real critique of a musician to say they're using predictable fills, which Mike admittedly does, and that's mostly just a consequence of his prolific nature as a musician. It's not necessarily a bad thing, it's just like, oh, there's that recognizably Portnoy fill again. Basically any observation of his playing or writing is criticism on a fundamental level, it's how you word it or how much it matters to someone that makes it good/bad, and again, it's pretty much all subjective, and from there you can agree or disagree with the person making the criticism
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: The Letter M on November 15, 2019, 10:29:27 AM
As a drummer who grew up listening to and learning from MP. It’s kind of annoying seeing him still get recognized in magazines for “Prog Drummer”. Especially since he hasn’t progressed.

To be fair, a lot of Prog (capital P) is about homaging the music of old, sticking within certain parameters of classic prog rock music. Progressive music as a movement takes those ideas and pushes them forward. There's a lot of bands in the former category these days that rely on the familiar, the nostalgia that many fans of the 70's era have, and since many of those bands haven't produced that kind of music since then, new bands have picked up that baton and have been carrying it for years.

Then we get other bands and artists who are pushing those boundaries and creating new sounds and ideas. Both kinds of prog rock are fine, but I think it's better to recognize that some bands are just going to excel at rehashing the same ideas over and over, and that's okay too.

-Marc.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Adami on November 15, 2019, 10:29:51 AM
I've given some thought to why the MP criticism, specifically that he just plays the same old thing, is so often given to him, but so few other drummers, most of whom ALSO play within a strict bag of tricks.

I think one reason is the novelty and specific voice MP has in his drummer. When Phil Rudd plays the same thing over and over, he's not doing anything directly associated with him. There's no Phil Rudd beat. There are MP beats and MP fills though. So I think hearing such specific things over and over stands out a lot more than hearing generic things over and over.

I have the same issue with Michael Romeo. All of his solos sound mostly the same to me, and that's because he has a specific style. If he just played generic, I'd likely not notice so much.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: kaos2900 on November 15, 2019, 11:12:31 AM
Never got the first album but gave this a shot. Enjoyed the intro quiet a bit, and then JSS started singing and they lost me. Some cool musical stuff, but as others have said nothing new or special that a ton of other bands aren't doing now. JSS just does NOTHING for me.  :-\
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: romdrums on November 15, 2019, 11:46:26 AM
It's New Millennium for a new millennium.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: kaos2900 on November 15, 2019, 11:50:24 AM
It's New Millennium for a new millennium.

 :rollin
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: TAC on November 15, 2019, 12:06:39 PM
 :lol
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: IgnotusPerIgnotium on November 15, 2019, 12:23:47 PM
Just listened Goodbye Divinity, really cool song..is anyone excited for the new album? :coolio
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Stadler on November 15, 2019, 12:36:59 PM
There's no Phil Rudd beat.


Haha, for some reason that made me laugh out loud.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Madman Shepherd on November 15, 2019, 12:47:22 PM
Derek and Bubmbleboot seem more cohesive in the middle/solo section. I liked that part. Felt a little Planet X in there.

The song itself is pretty good. Nothing "groundbreaking" but it's solid. It's an improvement in the aspect of writing a song.

I wish Soto would let loose with his vocals. Seems he stays in a restricted place with SOA except for his "yeah!" here and there.

I don't think he has the ability to do much more at this point in his life. Honestly, I don't know much about him so if someone can prove me wrong, I'm open to it. I picked up his Yngwie albums and he doesn't sound remotely the same. I'm not saying that to criticize because I think he was still a teenager at the time, but I've even heard some things from him in the 90s and he still sounded vastly different than he does now.

He's still a pretty good vocalist but that's about it at this point.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Polarbear on November 15, 2019, 02:10:18 PM
Leaving all the recent comments by MP aside, and i really enjoyed that song! And i don't get the New Millennium comparisons..
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bosk1 on November 15, 2019, 02:15:10 PM
Derek and Bubmbleboot seem more cohesive in the middle/solo section. I liked that part. Felt a little Planet X in there.

The song itself is pretty good. Nothing "groundbreaking" but it's solid. It's an improvement in the aspect of writing a song.

I wish Soto would let loose with his vocals. Seems he stays in a restricted place with SOA except for his "yeah!" here and there.

I don't think he has the ability to do much more at this point in his life. Honestly, I don't know much about him so if someone can prove me wrong, I'm open to it. I picked up his Yngwie albums and he doesn't sound remotely the same. I'm not saying that to criticize because I think he was still a teenager at the time, but I've even heard some things from him in the 90s and he still sounded vastly different than he does now.

He's still a pretty good vocalist but that's about it at this point.

I'm oversimplifying and doing some guesswork here, but this is my take:  His natural and most comfortable range is high baritone.  He can hit some VERY high notes, but cannot sustain singing in that higher register for extended periods.  In his younger days, he could get away with it by pushing and straining, and singing in falsetto.  But as he has aged, that ability has left him due to just age, wear and tear from improper singing technique, and wear and tear from living a...er..."rock and roll lifestyle" (if you know what I mean).  So, he has lost some range and stamina, for probably a variety of reasons.

To me, this has been evidence for a long time.  I know Samsara disagrees with me on this, but I will hold up his time in Journey as an example.  He was with them in 2006-2007.  And while I liked him a lot as a vocalist, I absolutely felt that he was the wrong choice for the band back then, at least in terms of being able to perform the old material (I would have been completely open to hearing a new album with him where they could write stuff that more suited his style and range).  I saw them live on that tour when they co-headlined with Def Leppard.  He sounded great on some songs.  And his stage presence was awesome.  But he cheated on a LOT of notes.  And even with Deen taking lead vocals on some songs to give him a break, his voice was noticeably losing power and range as the show wore on, and it was clear to me that, although he could fake it for a few songs, that Steve Perry range wasn't comfortable enough for him to make it through an entire set.

Fast-forward a few months to August 2007.  There was a fan-appreciation concert for Y&T.  I was lucky enough to have my number called to get up onstage improptu and get to sing a song with Y&T.  I got up and did Meanstreak.  And other than being a bit off-key on the last chorus, I nailed it.  But that is a hard song.  And I know from previously being in a Y&T tribute band that I do NOT have the power and stamina to comfortably sing a headliner-length set of their material.  It just isn't comfortably in my range.  Why am I mentioning that in connection with JSS?  Because he was at that same show.  Immediately after I got off the stage, this curley-haired dude gets up onstage with them, and does the same song and another one.  I didn't recognize him at first.  But about a verse into Meanstreak, it dawned on me, "Holy crap!  That's Jeff Scott Soto!  And he's doing the same song I just did!"  And here's the thing:  About halfway through, he had to pass if back to Dave Menketti for the choruses.  And he did the same thing with Open Fire (the next song).  Afterwards, I had a guy come up to me and start high-fiving me for how I "wiped the floor" with Jeff Scott Soto.  And while I appreciate the compliment, I quickly pointed out to him that I am in no way worthy to be compared to that guy.  I just knew from personal experience where the tricky parts were in that song and how to carry them off.  I knew that that song (and others in that catalog) is deceptively a lot trickier than it sounds--I just had had the practice and experience to know how to pull it off, even though it might not have been comfortably in my range.  JSS didn't, even though he is a lot more talented. 

Again, none of that is in any way a knock on JSS.  I still think he is a phenomenal singer.  And, again--just to be clear--I am NOT saying that my abilities hold a candle to his.  I am nothing more than an amateur who occasionally does some covers in a garage band and some occasional small gigs.  My voice overall doesn't have the warmth, depth, or range as his.  But, without taking anything away from JSS, the above did confirm to me that he likely isn't physically comfortable having to sing for a long, sustained amount of time outside of a certain range.  And I think you hear that in the SoA sets (including the Plovdiv set), where his voice gets tired and he loses range and power as the sets progress.  That isn't meant to be a knock in him in any way--just my best analysis of what I hear/see, and why.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: goo-goo on November 15, 2019, 02:17:32 PM
I enjoyed the song quite a bit and sounds more cohesive. The main turn off for me is JSS. I mean, the guy can sing and stuff, but I'm not a fan of his tone/pitch of his voice. Would have preferred someone with a rougher edge. Also, I know MP's fills have been discussed a lot in the last replies but I think the song would have benefited WITHOUT those fills. The intro is awesome, right until MP comes in. The build up towards JSS is great, but I'm quickly turned off by MP coming in. Sometimes it's ok not to play. I love DS tone to death. Anyways, I'll give the album a shot. SoA shines in a live setting and this song will kick ass if they open the show with it.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: MoraWintersoul on November 15, 2019, 02:27:25 PM
A contributing factor to this discussion is that people are quick to abandon bands whose singers they don't 100% gel with, but here we have a ton of people listening to the third recording of SoA and wishing JSS was better. I think he's just fine. Very few people can compare to Russell Allen or Steve Perry or other names that have been floated in the thread.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bosk1 on November 15, 2019, 02:30:45 PM
Third time through, and the song is growing on me.  I get VERY STRONG NM and LITS vibes from it.  I'm sure they'll release another one or two before the album drops, so I'll ultimately decide whether I'm buying AFTER I hear a bit more.  But as of right now, I'm leaning toward buying.

So to cross-pollinate this with recent discussion in the MP thread, I guess here's where I am now with respect to MP-related projects when new albums drop:
-Neal Morse band:  automatic buy
-Transatlantic:  automatic buy
-Sons of Apollo:  wait and see, but studio albums are a likely buy
-Flying Colors:  wait and see
-everything else:  not likely purchases unless I hear something that truly wows me
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bosk1 on November 15, 2019, 02:34:28 PM
Very few people can compare to Russell Allen or Steve Perry or other names that have been floated in the thread.

Absolutely.  And I'm sure this goes without saying, but as for my comments above, I was not necessarily trying to unfairly compare him to those singers. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Madman Shepherd on November 15, 2019, 02:44:05 PM
Derek and Bubmbleboot seem more cohesive in the middle/solo section. I liked that part. Felt a little Planet X in there.

The song itself is pretty good. Nothing "groundbreaking" but it's solid. It's an improvement in the aspect of writing a song.

I wish Soto would let loose with his vocals. Seems he stays in a restricted place with SOA except for his "yeah!" here and there.

I don't think he has the ability to do much more at this point in his life. Honestly, I don't know much about him so if someone can prove me wrong, I'm open to it. I picked up his Yngwie albums and he doesn't sound remotely the same. I'm not saying that to criticize because I think he was still a teenager at the time, but I've even heard some things from him in the 90s and he still sounded vastly different than he does now.

He's still a pretty good vocalist but that's about it at this point.

I'm oversimplifying and doing some guesswork here, but this is my take:  His natural and most comfortable range is high baritone.  He can hit some VERY high notes, but cannot sustain singing in that higher register for extended periods.  In his younger days, he could get away with it by pushing and straining, and singing in falsetto.  But as he has aged, that ability has left him due to just age, wear and tear from improper singing technique, and wear and tear from living a...er..."rock and roll lifestyle" (if you know what I mean).  So, he has lost some range and stamina, for probably a variety of reasons.

To me, this has been evidence for a long time.  I know Samsara disagrees with me on this, but I will hold up his time in Journey as an example.  He was with them in 2006-2007.  And while I liked him a lot as a vocalist, I absolutely felt that he was the wrong choice for the band back then, at least in terms of being able to perform the old material (I would have been completely open to hearing a new album with him where they could write stuff that more suited his style and range).  I saw them live on that tour when they co-headlined with Def Leppard.  He sounded great on some songs.  And his stage presence was awesome.  But he cheated on a LOT of notes.  And even with Deen taking lead vocals on some songs to give him a break, his voice was noticeably losing power and range as the show wore on, and it was clear to me that, although he could fake it for a few songs, that Steve Perry range wasn't comfortable enough for him to make it through an entire set.

Fast-forward a few months to August 2007.  There was a fan-appreciation concert for Y&T.  I was lucky enough to have my number called to get up onstage improptu and get to sing a song with Y&T.  I got up and did Meanstreak.  And other than being a bit off-key on the last chorus, I nailed it.  But that is a hard song.  And I know from previously being in a Y&T tribute band that I do NOT have the power and stamina to comfortably sing a headliner-length set of their material.  It just isn't comfortably in my range.  Why am I mentioning that in connection with JSS?  Because he was at that same show.  Immediately after I got off the stage, this curley-haired dude gets up onstage with them, and does the same song and another one.  I didn't recognize him at first.  But about a verse into Meanstreak, it dawned on me, "Holy crap!  That's Jeff Scott Soto!  And he's doing the same song I just did!"  And here's the thing:  About halfway through, he had to pass if back to Dave Menketti for the choruses.  And he did the same thing with Open Fire (the next song).  Afterwards, I had a guy come up to me and start high-fiving me for how I "wiped the floor" with Jeff Scott Soto.  And while I appreciate the compliment, I quickly pointed out to him that I am in no way worthy to be compared to that guy.  I just knew from personal experience where the tricky parts were in that song and how to carry them off.  And that's all true. 

Again, none of that is in any way a knock on JSS.  I still think he is a phenomenal singer.  And, again--just to be clear--I am NOT saying that my abilities hold a candle to his.  I am nothing more than an amateur who occasionally does some covers in a garage band and some occasional small gigs.  My voice overall doesn't have the warmth, depth, or range as his.  But, without taking anything away from JSS, the above did confirm to me that he likely isn't physically comfortable having to sing for a long, sustained amount of time outside of a certain range.  And I think you hear that in the SoA sets (including the Plovdiv set), where his voice gets tired and he loses range and power as the sets progress.  That isn't meant to be a knock in him in any way--just my best analysis of what I hear/see, and why.

Video evidence or it didn't happen!  :lol

Seriously though, that's a hell of a story. I can kind of relate too. I do some singing and have gotten a lot of compliments but I don't have a great technique and after a few songs my voice is fried. That's why I have a tremendous appreciation for James LaBrie who may not be able to match what he did in the early 90s, but can somehow still pull of singing for hours every night and hit a lot, but maybe not all, of the high notes.

Jeff still sounds good but pretty limited in what he can do and that's fine.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: gzarruk on November 15, 2019, 02:54:39 PM
Giving it a second listen right now. Some quick thoughts:

- Bumble still is the MVP of this band.
- MP sounds like a guy in an MP cover band, "Hmmm... I wonder which MP fill should I use here?... I'll just use all of them!".
- Derek still doesn't know how to make interesting solos with SOA (and he CAN, Trial of Teas anyone?)
- Jeff's vocals remind me of a recent MP incident (annoying vocals, that is). Also, like mentioned below, him always singing in the same middle range doesn't help the vocal lines stand out, just uneventful singing at best.

Other than that, I think the song is ok. It's miles better than Coming Home, but Signs of the Time was much better than both of these anyway. And I feel like they still haven't decided whether they want to be a prog metal -ish band or a hard rock band. The song sounds like they tried to do both and it feels a bit disjointed, specially that chugga chugga riff that comes out of nowhere.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bosk1 on November 15, 2019, 03:02:24 PM
Video evidence or it didn't happen!  :lol

You've seen mine, haven't you? 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e9mY9J2Z57Y

And, yeah, I fully own that I completely DO look like a dork.  But a couple of things in my defense:  I was REALLY tired from a lot going on in my work life and other stuff ahead of making the couple hours drive to this show.  I knew about the fan appreciation thing ahead of time, and my buddy Steve had been trying to convince me to throw my name in the hat to sing.  I was determined not to, and told him I wasn't.  And I couldn't be bothered to even dress for a rock show, much less to be onstage, and just threw on some shorts and a Disney shirt, which is about as UN-metal as you can get.  A bit after we walked in before the show, Jill Meniketti spotted me, and asked whether I had gotten a raffle ticket to go up and sing.  I told her I wasn't doing it, and she basically said "Yes you ARE!" and handed me a ticket.  So...there you go.  I wasn't prepared to do it, and was shocked when my ticket number was called later than night--so shocked that I didn't even remember to untie the hoodie I had tied around my waist.  :lol  Oh well...

Unfortunately, there isn't any video of JSS.  I wish there was, because I was so in shock upon realizing who he was that I barely paid attention to the performance.  :lol
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Sir GuitarCozmo on November 15, 2019, 03:42:44 PM
And still no War Pigs video...

 :sadpanda:
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: TAC on November 15, 2019, 03:43:18 PM
Coz :metal
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: King Postwhore on November 15, 2019, 04:12:17 PM
Bosk1. I love it.  Can't wait to see the Rock doc.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Madman Shepherd on November 15, 2019, 04:18:44 PM
Holy crap. Bosk is a lot cooler than I thought.

That was pretty awesome. :metal
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Adami on November 15, 2019, 04:20:33 PM
Put it on for a second listen.

Fell asleep. Might’ve been unrelated but still.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bosk1 on November 15, 2019, 04:23:32 PM
Holy crap. Bosk is a lot cooler than I thought.

You have low standards.  :lol
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Madman Shepherd on November 15, 2019, 04:30:19 PM
Holy crap. Bosk is a lot cooler than I thought.

You have low standards.  :lol

Well if it helps, my opinion of you was pretty low before this.





KIDDING! KIDDING!
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bosk1 on November 15, 2019, 04:31:23 PM
:rollin  Fair enough.















































And also:

:bosk1:
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bill1971 on November 15, 2019, 05:58:46 PM
That was really good Bosk! I must admit I was nervous for you when I clicked the link, but it was very cool and well done. I give you tons of credit.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: gzarruk on November 15, 2019, 08:17:22 PM
Bosk can sing! :eek :metal
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Peter Mc on November 15, 2019, 08:22:25 PM
Love the intro and build up to the song but the song itself is fairly uninspiring to my ears. Shame because the intro was epic and made me think it would be an epic sounding song. Instead the song seems to bear no resemblance to the intro at all and is a fairly dull metal song.

Similar to Bosk, when it comes to Mike these days only NMB and TA are blind purchases. SOA is a try before you buy and I’ve long given up on any of the others.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ReaperKK on November 15, 2019, 08:34:27 PM
I just got through listening to the new single and I think it's good. I like it a lot better than anything off the first album.

With that said I just don't get JSS, I mean he seems like a genuinely nice guy from all the interviews I've seen but I don't really like his singing. I don't get what the fuss is about, and I'm not trying to take a shot at him from the recent MP comments.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: KevShmev on November 15, 2019, 08:42:44 PM


With that said I just don't get JSS, I mean he seems like a genuinely nice guy from all the interviews I've seen but I don't really like his singing. I don't get what the fuss is about, and I'm not trying to take a shot at him from the recent MP comments.

Same here.  His vocals just strike me as very bland, which make it hard to grab on to any of the songs.  With a much better singer, the vocal melodies would come off a lot better and probably be more memorable. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ReaperKK on November 15, 2019, 08:45:35 PM
He just sounds like generic rock singer to me.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Volante99 on November 16, 2019, 01:04:09 AM


With that said I just don't get JSS, I mean he seems like a genuinely nice guy from all the interviews I've seen but I don't really like his singing. I don't get what the fuss is about, and I'm not trying to take a shot at him from the recent MP comments.

Same here.  His vocals just strike me as very bland, which make it hard to grab on to any of the songs.  With a much better singer, the vocal melodies would come off a lot better and probably be more memorable.

Jeff Scott Soto is the poster child for 80s AOR. His voice instantly reminds me of guys like Stan Bush (“Never Surrender!”) and Robert Tepper (“No Easy Way Out”). His voice belongs in a Sylvester Stallone training montage.

He’s technically quite good, but I just can’t take the dude seriously in a modern metal band. Sorry Jeff.

And while Ron Thal definitely has insane chops, I’m not convinced he’s much of a riff writer.

Needless to say, this song did nothing for me.



Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Kilgore Trout on November 16, 2019, 02:55:06 AM
Considering the career of these guys, it should take them 20 minutes to write a song like this. It's "three chords intro/the simpliest heavy riff they could think of/weak verse/weak chorus (that sounds like every chorus on their first album)/instrumental part based on technics that DT have used 150 times at this point /chorus/intro again" and all is done.
It's not bad and I don't even dislike it, but it's like they don't even try to be a little creative.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: majo on November 16, 2019, 03:26:46 AM
Considering the career of these guys, it should take them 20 minutes to write a song like this. It's "three chords intro/the simpliest heavy riff they could think of/weak verse/weak chorus (that sounds like every chorus on their first album)/instrumental part based on technics that DT have used 150 times at this point /chorus/intro again" and all is done.
It's not bad and I don't even dislike it, but it's like they don't even try to be a little creative.
that's exactly how I feel about them... still enough of talent/quality in the band to really enjoy them live.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: IgnotusPerIgnotium on November 16, 2019, 05:15:17 AM
Another thing is that a lot of people comment that they get a FII vibe..honestly I don't see the similarity..I listened it 3 times so far and to me it's like Coming Home but a more robust song, with a cool intro (2:20 till the verse kicks in), heavy tight rhythm sections, great chorus and amazing solos..I have to say Derek's solos have improved very much over time and some of them are very memorable, and Ron well his is just a beast..Their style is a mix of just the kind of music they enjoy playing individually and they start to show how they've matured as a band!
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: emtee on November 16, 2019, 06:31:47 AM
Decent song. Not great, not terrible. Not digging
JSS vocals at all. To me, he's very monotone and conveys
no emotion. He's the weak link in this band.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Stadler on November 16, 2019, 08:10:08 AM
I think gzarruk mentioned this, and I've said it before too, but it's not JUST about whether we "like" Jeff's voice or not. It's also how it fits in the music.   Like him or not, but David Lee Roth's voice range and timbre FIT with Van Halen.   As great a singer as I think Bono is, he would sound like shit in Sons of Apollo or Dream Theater as well.  You listen to the early Zeppelin, and each member has it's "sonic range" of sorts, and no one is really competing with each other.  I think more than any of Mike's bands, SoA seems to have five musicians all competing in the same sonic space, and FOR ME (I don't expect anyone else to share this) the melodies and parts aren't compelling enough to consistently cut through. 

To copy Bosk:
-Neal Morse Band:  automatic buy
-Transatlantic:  automatic buy
-Sons of Apollo:  wait and see, but studio albums are a likely buy (didn't buy Plovdiv)
-Flying Colors:  automatic buy
-everything else:  not likely purchases unless I hear something that truly wows me

I don't think of it this way, but essentially I'm buying Neal Morse records with Mike on them, not the other way around.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: TAC on November 16, 2019, 08:52:58 AM


To copy Bosk:
-Neal Morse Band:  automatic buy
-Transatlantic:  automatic buy
-Sons of Apollo:  wait and see, but studio albums are a likely buy (didn't buy Plovdiv)
-Flying Colors:  automatic buy
-everything else:  not likely purchases unless I hear something that truly wows me

I don't think of it this way, but essentially I'm buying Neal Morse records with Mike on them, not the other way around.

There is absolutely nothing he has done that I am even the slightest bit interested in.

I don't think the first A Mob album is actually that bad, but I haven't gone back to it. I wouldn't have even considered it had it not been for MP, but if he's not going back to it, I'm likely not either.

I'm on record as being optimistic about the next SOA album, but I honestly thought the first one was absolutely dreadful.

The Metal Allegience really does nothing for me.

NMB (I respect, but not my thing), Transatlantic (definitely not my thing), and Flying Colors (f'n blows if you ask me) hold no interest for me.



Like I said at the time of the split...I'm not only losing MP (who was my fave member) from my favorite band, I'm likely losing MP period.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: The Walrus on November 16, 2019, 09:01:10 AM
^ Good to know... I was gonna send Winery Dogs in the last round of your roulette.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: TAC on November 16, 2019, 09:16:14 AM
^ Good to know... I was gonna send Winery Dogs in the last round of your roulette.

 Oh God no. I forgot about them. I listened to the first album and it was a generic piece of youknowwhat.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: The Walrus on November 16, 2019, 09:48:06 AM
^ Good to know... I was gonna send Winery Dogs in the last round of your roulette.

 Oh God no. I forgot about them. I listened to the first album and it was a generic piece of youknowwhat.

I'm in the minority that things the second album is vastly superior. Guess what you're getting. Consider yourself lucky. I might throw Britney Spears and Eminem on there for giggles
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: TAC on November 16, 2019, 09:53:39 AM
^ Good to know... I was gonna send Winery Dogs in the last round of your roulette.

 Oh God no. I forgot about them. I listened to the first album and it was a generic piece of youknowwhat.

I'm in the minority that things the second album is vastly superior. Guess what you're getting. Consider yourself lucky. I might throw Britney Spears and Eminem on there for giggles


I might throw 4.0s and 5.0s on there for giggles.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Ben_Jamin on November 16, 2019, 09:59:25 AM
Can't stand the tone in the intro, it's too loud and grating. The rest of the song sounds like the debut album. It was ok.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Lupton on November 16, 2019, 11:25:28 AM
Fairly generic songwriting. Great playing. The intentional dropped beat at 6:49 took me by surprise...thought it was a mistake at 1st.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: EPIC Outro on November 16, 2019, 11:56:10 AM

I remember hearing either MP or DS promoting the debut album, and hyping up the fact that JSS could recreate his studio vocals effortlessly live. I think it was a dig at JLB. But I also think JSS hasn't been allowed to go all out in the studio for fear that his live vocals might fall short.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Volante99 on November 16, 2019, 12:15:44 PM

I remember hearing either MP or DS promoting the debut album, and hyping up the fact that JSS could recreate his studio vocals effortlessly live. I think it was a dig at JLB. But I also think JSS hasn't been allowed to go all out in the studio for fear that his live vocals might fall short.

For whatever reason he is holding back (if he is at all), I think it’s a good thing. Having him belt it out like he’s in Steel Dragon or Yngwie’s Rising Force isn’t going to make Sons of Apollo any better in my opinion.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: gzarruk on November 16, 2019, 12:18:06 PM
I think gzarruk mentioned this, and I've said it before too, but it's not JUST about whether we "like" Jeff's voice or not. It's also how it fits in the music.   Like him or not, but David Lee Roth's voice range and timbre FIT with Van Halen.   As great a singer as I think Bono is, he would sound like shit in Sons of Apollo or Dream Theater as well.  You listen to the early Zeppelin, and each member has it's "sonic range" of sorts, and no one is really competing with each other.  I think more than any of Mike's bands, SoA seems to have five musicians all competing in the same sonic space, and FOR ME (I don't expect anyone else to share this) the melodies and parts aren't compelling enough to consistently cut through. 

That's it. I obviously can't talk about the new album, but one of the biggest problems (to me) of the debut was that they have a guitarist, a bassist who thinks he's a guitarist, and a keyboardist who thinks he's a guitarist too, so there's a lot of sections on PS where everything sounds super muddy because they're all competing in the same frequency range. On top that, you got Soto singing in this mid range voice through most of the songs (with the ocassional YEAH! every once in a while), and there's just not enough dynamic in the music to make the songs stand out.

For what's worth, I kept 5 songs from their debut and am still looking forward to this one, but my expectations aren't too high anyway.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bill1971 on November 16, 2019, 01:41:58 PM


With that said I just don't get JSS, I mean he seems like a genuinely nice guy from all the interviews I've seen but I don't really like his singing. I don't get what the fuss is about, and I'm not trying to take a shot at him from the recent MP comments.

Same here.  His vocals just strike me as very bland, which make it hard to grab on to any of the songs.  With a much better singer, the vocal melodies would come off a lot better and probably be more memorable.

 I agree it's a vocals were more memorable and the drum parts were more interesting and the riffs were better.

 which reminds me I think I'm going to play distance over time again today.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ReaperKK on November 16, 2019, 08:47:18 PM


With that said I just don't get JSS, I mean he seems like a genuinely nice guy from all the interviews I've seen but I don't really like his singing. I don't get what the fuss is about, and I'm not trying to take a shot at him from the recent MP comments.

Same here.  His vocals just strike me as very bland, which make it hard to grab on to any of the songs.  With a much better singer, the vocal melodies would come off a lot better and probably be more memorable.

Jeff Scott Soto is the poster child for 80s AOR. His voice instantly reminds me of guys like Stan Bush (“Never Surrender!”) and Robert Tepper (“No Easy Way Out”). His voice belongs in a Sylvester Stallone training montage.

He’s technically quite good, but I just can’t take the dude seriously in a modern metal band. Sorry Jeff.

And while Ron Thal definitely has insane chops, I’m not convinced he’s much of a riff writer.

Needless to say, this song did nothing for me.





On the subject of Ron I think he is a phenomenal guitar player. His chops are in the 1% but he reminds me a bit of Guthrie Govan. Guthrie is one of my all time favorite guitar players, his technical ability is nearly unmatched but he shines the best is when he is under some really tight constructs.

His output on Steven Wilson's two albums was really, really good and that's largely because Steven called the shots. Guthrie's best solos came out of those records. Left to his own devices I feel he, and Ron, will just run wild with sixtuplet hybrid chicken picked/legate runs.

This isn't just limited to guitar. JR is one of the most brilliant keyboard players I've seen but on his solo albums he'll set the stage with a beautiful melody and then just lay into it.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Volante99 on November 16, 2019, 09:23:55 PM


With that said I just don't get JSS, I mean he seems like a genuinely nice guy from all the interviews I've seen but I don't really like his singing. I don't get what the fuss is about, and I'm not trying to take a shot at him from the recent MP comments.

Same here.  His vocals just strike me as very bland, which make it hard to grab on to any of the songs.  With a much better singer, the vocal melodies would come off a lot better and probably be more memorable.

Jeff Scott Soto is the poster child for 80s AOR. His voice instantly reminds me of guys like Stan Bush (“Never Surrender!”) and Robert Tepper (“No Easy Way Out”). His voice belongs in a Sylvester Stallone training montage.

He’s technically quite good, but I just can’t take the dude seriously in a modern metal band. Sorry Jeff.

And while Ron Thal definitely has insane chops, I’m not convinced he’s much of a riff writer.

Needless to say, this song did nothing for me.





On the subject of Ron I think he is a phenomenal guitar player. His chops are in the 1% but he reminds me a bit of Guthrie Govan. Guthrie is one of my all time favorite guitar players, his technical ability is nearly unmatched but he shines the best is when he is under some really tight constructs.

His output on Steven Wilson's two albums was really, really good and that's largely because Steven called the shots. Guthrie's best solos came out of those records. Left to his own devices I feel he, and Ron, will just run wild with sixtuplet hybrid chicken picked/legate runs.

This isn't just limited to guitar. JR is one of the most brilliant keyboard players I've seen but on his solo albums he'll set the stage with a beautiful melody and then just lay into it.

Funny. I feel that way with about 90% of the “virtuosos” guitarists these days. I don’t have much time for Marty Friedman or Paul Gilbert solo albums but love their playing in bands. Dare I say even some of Steve Vai’s tastiest playing (outside of Passion & Warfare) was with DLR and the short lived band he put together with Devin Townsend. I’d kill to see Vai do just one more project with a proper band where he focuses more on the song and less on the theatrics, but I’m definitely not holding my breath.  :P
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Stadler on November 17, 2019, 10:30:28 AM


With that said I just don't get JSS, I mean he seems like a genuinely nice guy from all the interviews I've seen but I don't really like his singing. I don't get what the fuss is about, and I'm not trying to take a shot at him from the recent MP comments.

Same here.  His vocals just strike me as very bland, which make it hard to grab on to any of the songs.  With a much better singer, the vocal melodies would come off a lot better and probably be more memorable.

Jeff Scott Soto is the poster child for 80s AOR. His voice instantly reminds me of guys like Stan Bush (“Never Surrender!”) and Robert Tepper (“No Easy Way Out”). His voice belongs in a Sylvester Stallone training montage.

He’s technically quite good, but I just can’t take the dude seriously in a modern metal band. Sorry Jeff.

And while Ron Thal definitely has insane chops, I’m not convinced he’s much of a riff writer.

Needless to say, this song did nothing for me.





On the subject of Ron I think he is a phenomenal guitar player. His chops are in the 1% but he reminds me a bit of Guthrie Govan. Guthrie is one of my all time favorite guitar players, his technical ability is nearly unmatched but he shines the best is when he is under some really tight constructs.

His output on Steven Wilson's two albums was really, really good and that's largely because Steven called the shots. Guthrie's best solos came out of those records. Left to his own devices I feel he, and Ron, will just run wild with sixtuplet hybrid chicken picked/legate runs.

This isn't just limited to guitar. JR is one of the most brilliant keyboard players I've seen but on his solo albums he'll set the stage with a beautiful melody and then just lay into it.

Funny. I feel that way with about 90% of the “virtuosos” guitarists these days. I don’t have much time for Marty Friedman or Paul Gilbert solo albums but love their playing in bands. Dare I say even some of Steve Vai’s tastiest playing (outside of Passion & Warfare) was with DLR and the short lived band he put together with Devin Townsend. I’d kill to see Vai do just one more project with a proper band where he focuses more on the song and less on the theatrics, but I’m definitely not holding my breath.  :P

This is (partly) why Dave Murray has quietly moved to number two on my all time favorite guitar player list.   
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ytserush on November 17, 2019, 11:36:24 AM
I think it's a valid criticism. Mike's playing stagnated quite some time ago and it's the same bag of tricks each time, partially because he himself admits to not practicing, or not practicing much (30 minutes is apparently a 'long time' to practice one part, even though... it really isn't). Not like he's a bad drummer or anything, but he's predictable by now. Whether or not that's a big deal depends on how much that matters to the individual. But I think it's a valid critique if you word it properly.

That's just the way it is.

It doesn't bother me but I can see how it might bother some people. As long as the guy is serving the song (which he does) I don't have a problem with it.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Peter Mc on November 17, 2019, 11:49:27 AM


With that said I just don't get JSS, I mean he seems like a genuinely nice guy from all the interviews I've seen but I don't really like his singing. I don't get what the fuss is about, and I'm not trying to take a shot at him from the recent MP comments.

Same here.  His vocals just strike me as very bland, which make it hard to grab on to any of the songs.  With a much better singer, the vocal melodies would come off a lot better and probably be more memorable.

Jeff Scott Soto is the poster child for 80s AOR. His voice instantly reminds me of guys like Stan Bush (“Never Surrender!”) and Robert Tepper (“No Easy Way Out”). His voice belongs in a Sylvester Stallone training montage.

He’s technically quite good, but I just can’t take the dude seriously in a modern metal band. Sorry Jeff.

And while Ron Thal definitely has insane chops, I’m not convinced he’s much of a riff writer.

Needless to say, this song did nothing for me.





On the subject of Ron I think he is a phenomenal guitar player. His chops are in the 1% but he reminds me a bit of Guthrie Govan. Guthrie is one of my all time favorite guitar players, his technical ability is nearly unmatched but he shines the best is when he is under some really tight constructs.

His output on Steven Wilson's two albums was really, really good and that's largely because Steven called the shots. Guthrie's best solos came out of those records. Left to his own devices I feel he, and Ron, will just run wild with sixtuplet hybrid chicken picked/legate runs.

This isn't just limited to guitar. JR is one of the most brilliant keyboard players I've seen but on his solo albums he'll set the stage with a beautiful melody and then just lay into it.

Funny. I feel that way with about 90% of the “virtuosos” guitarists these days. I don’t have much time for Marty Friedman or Paul Gilbert solo albums but love their playing in bands. Dare I say even some of Steve Vai’s tastiest playing (outside of Passion & Warfare) was with DLR and the short lived band he put together with Devin Townsend. I’d kill to see Vai do just one more project with a proper band where he focuses more on the song and less on the theatrics, but I’m definitely not holding my breath.  :P

He did some good stuff with Whitesnake I thought on the Slip Of The Tongue album.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Peter Mc on November 17, 2019, 11:55:50 AM
I think it's a valid criticism. Mike's playing stagnated quite some time ago and it's the same bag of tricks each time, partially because he himself admits to not practicing, or not practicing much (30 minutes is apparently a 'long time' to practice one part, even though... it really isn't). Not like he's a bad drummer or anything, but he's predictable by now. Whether or not that's a big deal depends on how much that matters to the individual. But I think it's a valid critique if you word it properly.

That's just the way it is.

It doesn't bother me but I can see how it might bother some people. As long as the guy is serving the song (which he does) I don't have a problem with it.

Doesn’t bother me either, I agree that his playing is more predictable and you can see stuff coming but sometimes familiarity isn’t a bad thing. Sometimes it’s nice to hear something and go “oh that’s classic Mike Portnoy”. I always enjoy his drumming on the NMB/TA albums even if he’s largely doing the same thing. It’s comforting at times to be able tap along and know what’s coming.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: gmillerdrake on November 17, 2019, 02:57:07 PM
I think it's a valid criticism. Mike's playing stagnated quite some time ago and it's the same bag of tricks each time, partially because he himself admits to not practicing, or not practicing much (30 minutes is apparently a 'long time' to practice one part, even though... it really isn't). Not like he's a bad drummer or anything, but he's predictable by now. Whether or not that's a big deal depends on how much that matters to the individual. But I think it's a valid critique if you word it properly.

That's just the way it is.

It doesn't bother me but I can see how it might bother some people. As long as the guy is serving the song (which he does) I don't have a problem with it.

Doesn’t bother me either, I agree that his playing is more predictable and you can see stuff coming but sometimes familiarity isn’t a bad thing. Sometimes it’s nice to hear something and go “oh that’s classic Mike Portnoy”. I always enjoy his drumming on the NMB/TA albums even if he’s largely doing the same thing. It’s comforting at times to be able tap along and know what’s coming.

I can overlook MPs predictability in TNMB due to the music/creativity is far superior than his other projects IMO. Neal is great at crafting songs and MPs ‘bag of tricks’ are a much better fit in TNMB than his other gigs. TSOAD and TGA were choc full of the ‘same old same old’ from MP but it fits so well it doesn’t matter.

 I prefer Eric over any of the other guitar players he’s played with the past 10 years, I like Randy better on Bass than any other and I’d take Bill any day of the week and twice on Sunday over DS.

I think those guys get more out of MP and challenge him than any of the other lineups he’s been in.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Volante99 on November 17, 2019, 03:33:09 PM


Funny. I feel that way with about 90% of the “virtuosos” guitarists these days. I don’t have much time for Marty Friedman or Paul Gilbert solo albums but love their playing in bands. Dare I say even some of Steve Vai’s tastiest playing (outside of Passion & Warfare) was with DLR and the short lived band he put together with Devin Townsend. I’d kill to see Vai do just one more project with a proper band where he focuses more on the song and less on the theatrics, but I’m definitely not holding my breath.  :P

He did some good stuff with Whitesnake I thought on the Slip Of The Tongue album.

Vai is good on that one too but credit where credit is due, 95% of that album (including the guitar parts) was written by Adrian Vandenberg. I do love Vai’s playing on the album, though, and I love that album in general. Glad people seem to finally be coming around to it and Whitesnake did an awesome release for its 30th anniversary. Even Coverdale says he likes it more now than he did in ‘89.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Fritzinger on November 17, 2019, 03:45:46 PM
I think it's a valid criticism. Mike's playing stagnated quite some time ago and it's the same bag of tricks each time, partially because he himself admits to not practicing, or not practicing much (30 minutes is apparently a 'long time' to practice one part, even though... it really isn't). Not like he's a bad drummer or anything, but he's predictable by now. Whether or not that's a big deal depends on how much that matters to the individual. But I think it's a valid critique if you word it properly.

That's just the way it is.

It doesn't bother me but I can see how it might bother some people. As long as the guy is serving the song (which he does) I don't have a problem with it.

Doesn’t bother me either, I agree that his playing is more predictable and you can see stuff coming but sometimes familiarity isn’t a bad thing. Sometimes it’s nice to hear something and go “oh that’s classic Mike Portnoy”. I always enjoy his drumming on the NMB/TA albums even if he’s largely doing the same thing. It’s comforting at times to be able tap along and know what’s coming.

I can overlook MPs predictability in TNMB due to the music/creativity is far superior than his other projects IMO. Neal is great at crafting songs and MPs ‘bag of tricks’ are a much better fit in TNMB than his other gigs. TSOAD and TGA were choc full of the ‘same old same old’ from MP but it fits so well it doesn’t matter.

 I prefer Eric over any of the other guitar players he’s played with the past 10 years, I like Randy better on Bass than any other and I’d take Bill any day of the week and twice on Sunday over DS.

I think those guys get more out of MP and challenge him than any of the other lineups he’s been in.

Amen to this. The Neal Morse Band is fantastic. And they don't have three guitarists all playing in the same frequency spectrum. Morse just knows how to craft and arrange music.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Volante99 on November 17, 2019, 05:05:42 PM
I feel like JSS and Thal are the weak links here.

JSS is JSS but Ron just seems like he’s on auto-pilot. I need more creativity from him. I remember when the band was hyping their first album Thal always seemed like the least enthused about the project. I’m sure that’s partly just his personality and I assume a guitarist of that caliber wouldn’t be there unless he really wanted to but I feel like even his playing seems uninterested.

Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Peter Mc on November 17, 2019, 05:19:45 PM


Funny. I feel that way with about 90% of the “virtuosos” guitarists these days. I don’t have much time for Marty Friedman or Paul Gilbert solo albums but love their playing in bands. Dare I say even some of Steve Vai’s tastiest playing (outside of Passion & Warfare) was with DLR and the short lived band he put together with Devin Townsend. I’d kill to see Vai do just one more project with a proper band where he focuses more on the song and less on the theatrics, but I’m definitely not holding my breath.  :P

He did some good stuff with Whitesnake I thought on the Slip Of The Tongue album.

Vai is good on that one too but credit where credit is due, 95% of that album (including the guitar parts) was written by Adrian Vandenberg. I do love Vai’s playing on the album, though, and I love that album in general. Glad people seem to finally be coming around to it and Whitesnake did an awesome release for its 30th anniversary. Even Coverdale says he likes it more now than he did in ‘89.

I think Vai was always supposed to do the solos wasn’t he and then ended up playing Vandenberg’s parts as well. That’s always how I understood it, those solos sound like trademark Steve Vai to me. The album is decent but suffered in comparison as it followed their biggest album. Like you, I’m glad it’s getting a bit more recognition. Wings Of The Storm was a personal favourite song and awesome solo.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: TAC on November 17, 2019, 05:24:47 PM
I never gave it a chance, honestly.

I had been a Whitesnake fan since the early 80's and bringing Vai in seemed nothing but a gimmick.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: PetFish on November 17, 2019, 05:35:44 PM
I never gave it a chance, honestly.

I had been a Whitesnake fan since the early 80's and bringing Vai in seemed nothing but a gimmick.

Definitely not a gimmick.

Vandenberg got hurt and couldn't play so Vai was asked to fill in.  I don't know if they asked anyone else or if anyone else was even available.  If Vai is a gimmick then so is MP playing in Avenged Sevenfold.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Peter Mc on November 17, 2019, 05:35:58 PM
Remember when Mike tried to claim that this was not a side project but was a proper full time band and would be the top priority for all 5 of them? Just saw an interview with Thal where he said the album was done in 8 days as that was all the time they could spare. Sounds an awful lot like a side project to me where they cobble something together in a few days when they have time off from other things. If this is how little time and effort they put in, it doesn’t make me want to rush out and buy it.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: TAC on November 17, 2019, 05:38:10 PM
I never gave it a chance, honestly.

I had been a Whitesnake fan since the early 80's and bringing Vai in seemed nothing but a gimmick.

Definitely not a gimmick.

Vandenberg got hurt and couldn't play so Vai was asked to fill in.  I don't know if they asked anyone else or if anyone else was even available. 

All I can do is give you my thoughts at the time.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Peter Mc on November 17, 2019, 05:41:30 PM
I never gave it a chance, honestly.

I had been a Whitesnake fan since the early 80's and bringing Vai in seemed nothing but a gimmick.

I don’t think you were alone, I think the music press kind of ran with that at the time but I always thought it was unfair. I’m not a huge fan of Whitesnake in that I tend to like their hair metal 80’s stuff which I’d guess their hardcore fans probably hate. Slip Of The Tongue had some not so good songs but some really decent stuff as well. Wings Of The Storm is a great song as is Judgment Day and Sailing Ships. I have a soft spot for Now You’re Gone too.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: TAC on November 17, 2019, 05:47:22 PM
I don't honestly remember what the press said. I read Kerrang but I don't remember what they said. Hit Parader and Circus were basically publicity rags anyway.

Whitesnake went form a band, and even though they had a lot of lineup changes, sacking the 1987 band for some sort of all star touring band, and then brining in Vai, I don't know. I just couldn't get behind it. Weren't their shows like 75 mins too?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Volante99 on November 17, 2019, 05:49:27 PM


Funny. I feel that way with about 90% of the “virtuosos” guitarists these days. I don’t have much time for Marty Friedman or Paul Gilbert solo albums but love their playing in bands. Dare I say even some of Steve Vai’s tastiest playing (outside of Passion & Warfare) was with DLR and the short lived band he put together with Devin Townsend. I’d kill to see Vai do just one more project with a proper band where he focuses more on the song and less on the theatrics, but I’m definitely not holding my breath.  :P

He did some good stuff with Whitesnake I thought on the Slip Of The Tongue album.

Vai is good on that one too but credit where credit is due, 95% of that album (including the guitar parts) was written by Adrian Vandenberg. I do love Vai’s playing on the album, though, and I love that album in general. Glad people seem to finally be coming around to it and Whitesnake did an awesome release for its 30th anniversary. Even Coverdale says he likes it more now than he did in ‘89.

I think Vai was always supposed to do the solos wasn’t he and then ended up playing Vandenberg’s parts as well. That’s always how I understood it, those solos sound like trademark Steve Vai to me. The album is decent but suffered in comparison as it followed their biggest album. Like you, I’m glad it’s getting a bit more recognition. Wings Of The Storm was a personal favourite song and awesome solo.

Yes, sorry I should have clarified, Vai wrote the solos, no question, but that’s allllmost it. Much of the guitar arrangements are fairly close to the early Vandenberg demos. Great playing throughout, though!
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Peter Mc on November 17, 2019, 05:56:31 PM
I don't honestly remember what the press said. I read Kerrang but I don't remember what they said. Hit Parader and Circus were basically publicity rags anyway.

Whitesnake went form a band, and even though they had a lot of lineup changes, sacking the 1987 band for some sort of all star touring band, and then brining in Vai, I don't know. I just couldn't get behind it. Weren't their shows like 75 mins too?

No idea, like I say I wasn’t a huge fan so no real connection to the band members at the time and wasn’t going to shows back then. I did see Whitesnake on a co-headline tour with Def Leppard a few years ago though and they were terrible. Songs were boring to me and Coverdale seemed to be miming when he wasn’t being drowned out by the backing singers.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Peter Mc on November 17, 2019, 06:30:03 PM
Just had a quick blast of the Slip Of The Tongue highlights for the first time in probably 20 years, if not more, and those songs still hold up. Bands like SOA and Winery Dogs would kill for songs of that quality and a vocalist like Coverdale in his pomp.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: TAC on November 17, 2019, 06:47:16 PM
I'm in the middle of a roulette right now. Maybe after if I remember, I'll check it. I do remember playing a song a few times on my radio show. I don't remember which one. Something upbeat though.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: RodrigoAltaf on November 17, 2019, 07:46:42 PM
Just had a quick blast of the Slip Of The Tongue highlights for the first time in probably 20 years, if not more, and those songs still hold up. Bands like SOA and Winery Dogs would kill for songs of that quality and a vocalist like Coverdale in his pomp.

Fun fact: did you know that Coverdale hired Derek to replace Don Airey's parts on the Slip of the Tongue reissue that came out this year? It goes to show how well respected he is, and the caliber of player we're discussing here, guys.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ReaperKK on November 17, 2019, 07:59:36 PM
Remember when Mike tried to claim that this was not a side project but was a proper full time band and would be the top priority for all 5 of them? Just saw an interview with Thal where he said the album was done in 8 days as that was all the time they could spare. Sounds an awful lot like a side project to me where they cobble something together in a few days when they have time off from other things. If this is how little time and effort they put in, it doesn’t make me want to rush out and buy it.

Assuming this is true this I think is the root of the problem bands MP has been in. If you come in to write some music over an 8 day period chances are you'll come up with some rough drafts of stuff pulling from the bag of tricks that you have.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ProfessorPeart on November 17, 2019, 08:29:53 PM
He did say that, but it is not the whole story:


The writing process began at the start of the year, as Portnoy, Sherinian and guitarist Ron “Bumblefoot” Thal got together. “The three of us were at my home studio in Pennsylvania,” explains Portnoy. “And it took about three weeks to get all the music written.

“Because we all have our home studios, it meant everyone could record there as and when they had opportunity,” continues Sherinian. “We all had the luxury of being able to take our time to get all the parts done, which was a huge help in the way the album's come out. I suppose in all, it took about eight months to record everything.

http://bravewords.com/news/ron-bumblefoot-thal-talks-making-of-new-sons-of-apollo-album-we-only-had-eight-days
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: eric42434224 on November 17, 2019, 09:12:25 PM
I watched the video for the new song, and musically it didn't really grab me.  Not saying it was bad, but after listening to Flying colors for the first time (the 3rd album), this dos not feel on the same level.

What I did LOVE about the video was Ritchie Sambora with his wide brimed hat on guitar, Derek Zoolander doing Blue Steel on keyboards, and the singer with the Soul Glo activator.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Sir GuitarCozmo on November 18, 2019, 06:52:04 AM
And still no War Pigs video...

 :sadpanda:

For what it's worth, my band did War Pigs on Saturday...
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Peter Mc on November 18, 2019, 06:56:08 AM
Just had a quick blast of the Slip Of The Tongue highlights for the first time in probably 20 years, if not more, and those songs still hold up. Bands like SOA and Winery Dogs would kill for songs of that quality and a vocalist like Coverdale in his pomp.

Fun fact: did you know that Coverdale hired Derek to replace Don Airey's parts on the Slip of the Tongue reissue that came out this year? It goes to show how well respected he is, and the caliber of player we're discussing here, guys.

Yeah, keyboards are not particularly a lead instrument in Whitesnake, certainly not this album, but I would agree that DS is an awesome player. Love his guitar like sound and does some cool solos. All the members of SOA are good players, it’s just that they aren’t great songwriters. Even as a fan of Soto, he’s never been a great songwriter and obviously he can’t sing at the level he could in his days with Yngwie and Axel Rudi Pell. It’s just a pity they couldn’t get a top level singer songwriter to harness their undoubted abilities into interesting songs.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Peter Mc on November 18, 2019, 06:58:49 AM
I watched the video for the new song, and musically it didn't really grab me.  Not saying it was bad, but after listening to Flying colors for the first time (the 3rd album), this dos not feel on the same level.

What I did LOVE about the video was Ritchie Sambora with his wide brimed hat on guitar, Derek Zoolander doing Blue Steel on keyboards, and the singer with the Soul Glo activator.

If only it was The Sambora. In his prime he would’ve taken this project to a completely different level as a brilliant player and singer and songwriter.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bosk1 on November 18, 2019, 07:53:59 AM
I don't think of it this way, but essentially I'm buying Neal Morse records with Mike on them, not the other way around.

Exactly the same for me as well.  Except that I DO think of it that way.  I bought my first Neal Morse and Transatlantic albums because Mike was on them.  Then I realized how good both bands were, and I buy them now on their own merit.  And Neal is the driving force.  If either band replaced the drummer, it would likely still be an automatic buy. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bill1971 on November 18, 2019, 08:23:03 AM
I follow Jordan Rudess on Twitter and I found out he follows Derek on Twitter. I didn't know why I found that interesting. So now I see Derek's because of Jordan and Derek posted saying "Guess that tune?" He played the very beginning of their new song and I was tempted to respond "New Millennium?" but decided I didn't want to be a jerk. :)
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Stadler on November 18, 2019, 09:11:14 AM
I don't think of it this way, but essentially I'm buying Neal Morse records with Mike on them, not the other way around.

Exactly the same for me as well.  Except that I DO think of it that way.  I bought my first Neal Morse and Transatlantic albums because Mike was on them.  Then I realized how good both bands were, and I buy them now on their own merit.  And Neal is the driving force.  If either band replaced the drummer, it would likely still be an automatic buy.

Haha, well I do now, too!


As for Coverdale, just want to note:  the "Starkers In Tokyo" is required listening.  HIs voice can get lost in all the gleen and shine of the recent Whitesnake records, and I have no doubt he cannot deliver that live night after night on his own any more, but the "Starkers" material is just him and Adrian in a studio in Tokyo with a mike and an acoustic guitar, and MAN, is his voice just so smooth and warm and...  I need a moment.

Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: geeeemo on November 18, 2019, 09:18:41 AM
Boskie!!   :o   I didn't know I was meeting another Rock Star on Nov 1!!  :metal
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Samsara on November 18, 2019, 03:38:03 PM

I'm oversimplifying and doing some guesswork here, but this is my take:  His natural and most comfortable range is high baritone.  He can hit some VERY high notes, but cannot sustain singing in that higher register for extended periods.  In his younger days, he could get away with it by pushing and straining, and singing in falsetto.  But as he has aged, that ability has left him due to just age, wear and tear from improper singing technique, and wear and tear from living a...er..."rock and roll lifestyle" (if you know what I mean).  So, he has lost some range and stamina, for probably a variety of reasons.

To me, this has been evidence for a long time.  I know Samsara disagrees with me on this, but I will hold up his time in Journey as an example.  He was with them in 2006-2007.  And while I liked him a lot as a vocalist, I absolutely felt that he was the wrong choice for the band back then, at least in terms of being able to perform the old material (I would have been completely open to hearing a new album with him where they could write stuff that more suited his style and range).  I saw them live on that tour when they co-headlined with Def Leppard.  He sounded great on some songs.  And his stage presence was awesome.  But he cheated on a LOT of notes.  And even with Deen taking lead vocals on some songs to give him a break, his voice was noticeably losing power and range as the show wore on, and it was clear to me that, although he could fake it for a few songs, that Steve Perry range wasn't comfortable enough for him to make it through an entire set.


I'm late getting back to this. Sorry. Busy weekend, busy day at the office. Wait, we don't fundamentally disagree on JSS singing classic Steve Perry Journey full time. No, he's a high baritone these days. His range has dropped, and while he could, and did cheat to sing some of those Perry songs in normal tuning, and it was cool to hear, the real HARD stuff was sung by Deen Castronovo (from behind the kit). My point on JSS and Journey, was that they could have embarked on something DIFFERENT by honoring their agreement to bring JSS on full time, and having him and Deen split lead vocals. JSS would get probably 65 percent, with Deen getting 35 percent, and the more difficult ones. Leaving JSS to do stuff from Trial By Fire, the classic stuff he felt good about, and maybe even the pre-Perry records.

My only point when we saw that show (and I disagree that JSS lost power. I have the recording somewhere, and if I wasn't so lazy, I'd prove you wrong), was that Journey sounded really, really good with the two of them (JSS and Deen) singing. It was different, it was a cool vibe, and I would have loved to have heard it from that point forward. That's why I was so stoked when Journey did agree to move forward with JSS, and then so upset when they reneged and kicked him to the curb for Arnel (who I also obviously like). I just wanted them to continue with something different, and instead, they got someone whose voice was closer to Perry's to sing most of the material (Deen also took on a couple songs to help Arnel as well during Deen's tenure in the band).

The funny thing about Journey is, before Deen went off the deep end and was kicked out of the band, he was the singer they've always wanted. HIS voice is the closest to Steve Perry they've ever had. He was just too shy to be a frontman and stand out there in front of everyone. I was lucky enough to catch Deen Castronovo fronting Neal Schon's JOurney Through Time earlier this year. Deen was sick with a bad cold, and still sounded like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mgqbLDb5gbY  :hefdaddy :hefdaddy

And I made a promise, after Journey screwed over JSS, that I'd never go see Journey again, even though I love Eclipse, the last record with Arnel. Just out of a sense of respect to JSS. And I've held true to that.

But clearly, JSS is a baritone, and as you rightly pointed out, it appears his comfort area these days is as a high baritone.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bosk1 on November 18, 2019, 03:49:34 PM
As relevant to this thread, we agree on the key details.  :tup  I'm not sweating the disgreement on the other stuff.  And, to be clear, I want to again reiterate that I'm not knocking him as a singer of diminishing how good he is at all. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: max_security on November 18, 2019, 03:51:53 PM
Man Deen was a hell of a drummer back in the day.

https://youtu.be/kY5gdPfRDgk

Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bosk1 on November 18, 2019, 03:58:59 PM
Still is, IMO.  And singer too.  It's just his personal life that appears to be out of control (or was--I don't really know if he has gotten himself under control or not).
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Madman Shepherd on November 18, 2019, 04:52:19 PM
As a pretty big fan of Ozzy's "solo" stuff, Deen is the only drummer Ozzy ever had that came close to holding a candle to Lee Kerslake.

As a bonus, his performance on Geezer Butler's first two solo albums were awesome.  A while back I sent in a question or something on a Q&A he did and asked about his time with those guys and he said it was great and something along the lines of, "Man, I miss playing stuff that heavy!"
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Volante99 on November 18, 2019, 05:27:49 PM
As a pretty big fan of Ozzy's "solo" stuff, Deen is the only drummer Ozzy ever had that came close to holding a candle to Lee Kerslake.

As a bonus, his performance on Geezer Butler's first two solo albums were awesome.  A while back I sent in a question or something on a Q&A he did and asked about his time with those guys and he said it was great and something along the lines of, "Man, I miss playing stuff that heavy!"

Lee is definitely the best BUT Mike Bordin didn’t have much of a chance to prove himself in the studio with Oz, but he was quite a beast live. Tommy Aldridge was no slouch, and I have a soft spot for Randy Castillo. Hell, I’ve liked all his drummers with the exception of his current Tommy Clufetos, who, frankly, sucks badly.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Madman Shepherd on November 18, 2019, 08:58:34 PM
I agree about Clufetos. Stiff as hell. Just terrible.

A lot of the other drummers were good, no doubt. They just never did much for me.

Bordin was great in Faith No More but he never felt like he fit. His tracks on the rerecordings of Blizzard and Diary were just embarrassing.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Northern Lion on November 19, 2019, 01:15:36 PM
So I listened to the new song today on Youtube, and I was plesantly surprised.  I did not like their first album at all.  But this new song I thought was a real step up.  I have listened to it three times so far today which is 2 more listens than I gave any of the songs on their first album.

Things I liked:
The intro keyboard New Millennium/space thing
The main guitar riff (I didn't like any of the riffs from their first album)
The more subdued/darker vocals/melody

To me, they sounded a lot less like a supergroup trying too hard to be relevant, and more like a band just trying to make good music.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: MinistroRaven on November 19, 2019, 02:26:51 PM
Sons Of Apollo VIP APOLLONIAN EXPERIENCES are now available for the North American shows!!!

https://www.rightrocksportswear.com/sons-of-apollo/2020-sons-of-apollo-vip-platinum

https://www.rightrocksportswear.com/sons-of-apollo

Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Madman Shepherd on November 19, 2019, 04:30:05 PM
So I finally listened to the song with headphones and I gotta say I dig it. Mike overplays the intro but other than that its pretty solid. If it was on the first album it would be in the upper tier of songs.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Stadler on November 20, 2019, 08:34:00 AM
I mean, I kind of wish it wasn't Sons Of Apollo (and was Flying Colors or Transatlantic) but that's not a bad package.  The Silver is a LITTLE high (most of Mike's M&G's with Neal are in the $75 to $100 range) but to get to talk to them and hear them play with the Gold is appealing to me.   Again, though, the band. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on November 20, 2019, 08:45:28 AM
The private show and Q&A is really cool, but I've yet to buy any of these types of packages before and don't plan on starting to.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Stadler on November 20, 2019, 09:08:08 AM
I've done it twice now.

I did it once before the Neal Morse Band show, and it was cool, but not life-changing.   Mike knew me from his site (that was a good thing not a bad thing, though couldn't read exactly HOW good).  Neal seemed like someone out of "The Californians" skit on SNL.   

I did it for Jon Anderson, and that was special.  He was exceedingly cordial and polite, and seemed genuinely engaged.  Even commented on the "Going For The One" record I asked him to sign. 

I won't do it again unless it's either a holy grail artist (Blackmore, Phil Collins) or it's something like this where you get to see the band perform in a special setting. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on November 20, 2019, 09:13:32 AM
I could see myself doing it for a unique situation with my favorite bands for a decent price but I've yet to see something presented like that for my tastes and wallet.  I spend A LOT of money on concerts, adding in the extra thrills isn't worth it for me if it means I can attend another 4 or 5 concerts for that price. 

Also, I got to meet all of SOA at ProgPower so there's that.  And got to meet Bumblefoot over the summer when he performed with Asia.  I can meet JSS again at the next ProgPower.  I will say, it was a pleasure to get to meet MP.  As much as I sometimes am critical on him here, he was exactly what everyone says he is in person, super nice and personable.  I have no desire to meet DS again.  Billy would be interesting to sit and have a coffee and convo with after I've seen him talk about scientology on youtube  :lol
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: MinistroRaven on November 20, 2019, 10:27:20 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cQaH69XgvQY&feature=youtu.be

What a statement in the mid of the promotion of the album by JSS
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Stadler on November 20, 2019, 10:50:46 AM
Yeah, what was that all about?  Attendance? Sales? Something else?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on November 20, 2019, 11:00:00 AM
First Band Blues

but I'm sure it has to do with not being a huge success like they seemed to have expected.

I like how he speaks truthfully about things not being fine and dandy, it certainly didn't seem that way from my perspective and it's nice to not see them pretend all was going well here. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Fritzinger on November 20, 2019, 11:31:45 AM
250 bucks for the Platinum package? Who purchases that  :lol
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Madman Shepherd on November 20, 2019, 06:28:15 PM
First Band Blues

but I'm sure it has to do with not being a huge success like they seemed to have expected.

I like how he speaks truthfully about things not being fine and dandy, it certainly didn't seem that way from my perspective and it's nice to not see them pretend all was going well here.

I love it to. He's a sincere dude. I said above that after giving the song another listen I love it but hearing JSS's honest take on it makes me more excited.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: devieira73 on November 20, 2019, 08:39:48 PM
A bit more information about the album:
https://www.lasercd.com/cd/m-m-x-x-2cd-mediabook-preorder
I liked this:

There's also 'King of Delusion', which clocks in at nine minutes in length.

This opens up with a piano solo, explains Portnoy. And it also has a middle section where Derek and I do a piano & drum duet.

I have actually played more piano on this album than I have ever done before, delights Sherinian. This fitted nicely with what we were aiming for. I am also so pleased that I get to play a lot of Hammond organ this time.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Northern Lion on November 20, 2019, 08:40:45 PM
First Band Blues

but I'm sure it has to do with not being a huge success like they seemed to have expected.

I like how he speaks truthfully about things not being fine and dandy, it certainly didn't seem that way from my perspective and it's nice to not see them pretend all was going well here.

Well, a slice of humble pie will do them some good.  If the rest of their new album is as good as Goodbye Divinity then I'd say it did them a lot of good.  Their last album came off so pompous (imho) that I didn't think I would like anything they did and basically wrote off the band.

Here's hoping that this can be another band I can get into.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Madman Shepherd on November 20, 2019, 09:49:42 PM
First Band Blues

but I'm sure it has to do with not being a huge success like they seemed to have expected.

I like how he speaks truthfully about things not being fine and dandy, it certainly didn't seem that way from my perspective and it's nice to not see them pretend all was going well here.

Well, a slice of humble pie will do them some good.  If the rest of their new album is as good as Goodbye Divinity then I'd say it did them a lot of good.  Their last album came off so pompous (imho) that I didn't think I would like anything they did and basically wrote off the band.

Here's hoping that this can be another band I can get into.

The ironic thing is the pompous one (Derek) seems to have taken an even bigger role on this album. Dare I say the new band leader? He produced it and wrote a lot of the vocal melodies. But yeah, he seems to have toned it way down.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: gzarruk on November 21, 2019, 06:23:02 AM
Hmmm, I wonder if Derek wrote the lyrics to track 5 and if it will be auto-biographical? :P

There's also 'King of Delusion', which clocks in at nine minutes in length.

This opens up with a piano solo, explains Portnoy. And it also has a middle section where Derek and I do a piano & drum duet.

I have actually played more piano on this album than I have ever done before, delights Sherinian. This fitted nicely with what we were aiming for. I am also so pleased that I get to play a lot of Hammond organ this time.

Looks like we're onto something here... :lol
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Grappler on November 21, 2019, 06:30:38 AM
I like how he speaks truthfully about things not being fine and dandy, it certainly didn't seem that way from my perspective and it's nice to not see them pretend all was going well here.

That was my take as well - he is very refreshingly honest about the fact that they thought the band would be bigger from the start and it wasn't, which led to some internal struggles. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: KevShmev on November 21, 2019, 07:12:02 AM
Hmmm, I wonder if Derek wrote the lyrics to track 5 and if it will be auto-biographical? :P

There's also 'King of Delusion', which clocks in at nine minutes in length.

This opens up with a piano solo, explains Portnoy. And it also has a middle section where Derek and I do a piano & drum duet.

I have actually played more piano on this album than I have ever done before, delights Sherinian. This fitted nicely with what we were aiming for. I am also so pleased that I get to play a lot of Hammond organ this time.

Looks like we're onto something here... :lol

 :lol :lol :tup :tup

I like how he speaks truthfully about things not being fine and dandy, it certainly didn't seem that way from my perspective and it's nice to not see them pretend all was going well here.

That was my take as well - he is very refreshingly honest about the fact that they thought the band would be bigger from the start and it wasn't, which led to some internal struggles.

I can't help but wonder if Sherinian's online antics irked a few members of the band.  I mean, they are trying to build a new band up from the ground, and you've got one member pissing off a portion of your target audience.  And let's face it, you need fan support to make just about any band work, unless you are a one-off, and potential fans saying they won't even give your new product a try because one guy in the band was acting the way he was is something I could see having ticked off a member or two of the band.  Total speculation of course, but given that Derek went from taking shots on a somewhat regular basis to going totally silent in that regard since makes me think someone had to have told him, in so many words, to knock it off.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: MinistroRaven on November 21, 2019, 08:34:17 AM
Hmmm, I wonder if Derek wrote the lyrics to track 5 and if it will be auto-biographical? :P

There's also 'King of Delusion', which clocks in at nine minutes in length.

This opens up with a piano solo, explains Portnoy. And it also has a middle section where Derek and I do a piano & drum duet.

I have actually played more piano on this album than I have ever done before, delights Sherinian. This fitted nicely with what we were aiming for. I am also so pleased that I get to play a lot of Hammond organ this time.

Looks like we're onto something here... :lol

 :lol :lol :tup :tup

I like how he speaks truthfully about things not being fine and dandy, it certainly didn't seem that way from my perspective and it's nice to not see them pretend all was going well here.

That was my take as well - he is very refreshingly honest about the fact that they thought the band would be bigger from the start and it wasn't, which led to some internal struggles.

I can't help but wonder if Sherinian's online antics irked a few members of the band.  I mean, they are trying to build a new band up from the ground, and you've got one member pissing off a portion of your target audience.  And let's face it, you need fan support to make just about any band work, unless you are a one-off, and potential fans saying they won't even give your new product a try because one guy in the band was acting the way he was is something I could see having ticked off a member or two of the band.  Total speculation of course, but given that Derek went from taking shots on a somewhat regular basis to going totally silent in that regard since makes me think someone had to have told him, in so many words, to knock it off.

I have always purchased the albums that MP is on except for SoA and DS was the reason why I didn't support MP by purchasing their album and the live release and in some way that's why I disliked the album too. This time around DS hasn't talked shit (yet) and I am thinking of getting it after I hear it a couple of times, if I like it I will support them.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Grappler on November 21, 2019, 08:57:09 AM
I have always purchased the albums that MP is on except for SoA and DS was the reason why I didn't support MP by purchasing their album and the live release and in some way that's why I disliked the album too. This time around DS hasn't talked shit (yet) and I am thinking of getting it after I hear it a couple of times, if I like it I will support them.

If you do like it and buy it, would you also now buy the first one?  Or has that album been forever tainted for you? 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: MinistroRaven on November 21, 2019, 08:58:26 AM
I have always purchased the albums that MP is on except for SoA and DS was the reason why I didn't support MP by purchasing their album and the live release and in some way that's why I disliked the album too. This time around DS hasn't talked shit (yet) and I am thinking of getting it after I hear it a couple of times, if I like it I will support them.

If you do like it and buy it, would you also now buy the first one?  Or has that album been forever tainted for you?

No, I won't purchase the first one, I also deleted the promo copy of the first release and the Live release I got from the label.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bosk1 on November 21, 2019, 09:11:34 AM
I think I said this above, but as far as the first album and the live release:  I think I would say I was in "auto-buy" mode for the first album.  But I liked what I had heard before release anyway, so I was going to buy it no matter what.  I liked the first album.  A lot.  Still do.

I also really liked the live performance when I saw them on tour.  ...for the most part.  The stage banter was incredibly immature and offputting at times.  Derek's stage presence and general demeanor outside the show was also a bit offputting.  But if I had no prior context, it would likely have come off as very minor.  But the performance of the music itself and the overall showmanship were great.  I was looking forward to the live release.  Having heard it and seen the clips that have been posted, I'm not interested.

Given everything that has played out, I am no longer in "auto-buy" mode with their material, and more "wait and see" mode.  I think I will probably buy the new one, but it will depend on what I hear as we get closer.  I do like the first song and find it to be pretty on par with the first album (which, again, I really liked), so that's a good sign.  And I like the context provided by that JSS promo clip.  That said, I find it funny and ironic (in light of some things they have said) that the two former DT members did not immediately recognize that the intro to their new song is HEAVILY reminiscent of a distinctive note/chord progression from New Millenium combined with the intro to Lines in the Sand.  That doesn't take away from the song at all.  But it's hilarious that Derek and Mike apparently never realized that. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Ben_Jamin on November 21, 2019, 09:24:22 AM
They're one of those bands I prefer live over studio. Won't buy the albums, maybe the live ones, but will definately see them live if close.

Listening to the song again and seeing the video. I still don't like that intro/outro tone. It's too loud for me. I do enjoy the rest of the song though.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: MinistroRaven on November 21, 2019, 09:37:49 AM
From their FB page: Pre-save/add our upcoming album MMXX on Spotify or Apple Music for a chance to 𝐖𝐈𝐍 𝐀 𝐆𝐑𝐀𝐍𝐃 𝐏𝐑𝐈𝐙𝐄 from Modern Drummer Magazine, Bass Player Magazine, Guitar World Magazine, @remopercussion, and more! Good luck! For U.S. Only.

https://forms.sonymusicfans.com/campaign/sons-of-apollo-mmxx-2/
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ReaperKK on November 21, 2019, 06:33:05 PM
Not sure what Apotify is but I hope I win :lol
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: MinistroRaven on November 21, 2019, 07:03:43 PM
Not sure what Apotify is but I hope I win :lol

LOL  :rollin
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on November 22, 2019, 06:00:00 PM
I'm going to Plovdiv tonight

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EKBC_vuXsAA5tj3?format=jpg&name=4096x4096)

Thanks ProfessorPeart for the link :metal
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Evermind on November 22, 2019, 11:21:43 PM
Your cat doesn't look too happy about it 
:lol
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Mladen on November 23, 2019, 03:45:12 AM
Oh God, that cat's reaction is priceless.  :lol
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: MirrorMask on November 23, 2019, 04:41:27 AM
The cat took hard Derek's negative comments and disapproves of your entertainment choices.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: MoraWintersoul on November 23, 2019, 06:56:58 AM
"Why does Derek Sherinian describe himself as a cool cat! he has no right to that word!"  :lol
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on November 23, 2019, 09:08:41 AM
 :lol I knew he'd give a reaction because he HATES when I pull out my phone to take a picture of him
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Lupton on November 23, 2019, 08:26:18 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cQaH69XgvQY&feature=youtu.be

What a statement in the mid of the promotion of the album by JSS

"Damn kids these days! They don't know how to harness the pain..."    *mumbles* "Get off my lawn!"  :laugh:
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: TAC on November 23, 2019, 08:28:54 PM


(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EKBC_vuXsAA5tj3?format=jpg&name=4096x4096)

Pretty much the look my wife gives me when I'm holding a roulette.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Architeuthis on November 24, 2019, 10:11:19 AM
 :lol That darn cat!
 Anyway, I just received the live at Plovdiv bluray and cd's yesterday and watched it last night with big stereo sound.  Pretty awesome show imo!  It was a nice treat to come home to after being in the ER for the day with severe heart arrhythmias.  It actually kind of helped. I had to stand to watch the show in my own living room, if I sat down my palpitations got worse. So I just pretended I was at the concert.  :metal
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Architeuthis on November 27, 2019, 08:28:10 AM
So I just watched the Plovdiv concert again (three days later) now that I'm feeling better.  I think this is one FANTASTIC show!  I remember reading remarks in this thread saying that JSS was struggling vocally on a few of songs.  He sounded great to me and put on quite a show and is the perfect fit for this band.  Ron "Bumblefoot" Thal is a integral part in this band, and brings so much to the show,  a very gifted musician!  Sheehan and Portnoy are both amazing as well.
 I really like Derek's performance and sound on this one. He seemed to be having fun and his playing is spot on,  just some great solos throughout especially on the Hammond.  I have some more respect for Derek after listening to his interviews on the bonus material, he seems like a pretty cool dude. Same for evereyone else in the band. 
 The cover songs are very well done. It's too bad that the powers that be didn't allow Comfortably Numb and Dream On to make the bluray cut... What the heck!!!
 I really hope this band can hold it together for a while and make a few good albums and tours. Way too much talent not to.    :metal
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: DarkLord_Lalinc on November 28, 2019, 09:49:54 AM
Here's a confession:

I haven't paid much attention to SoA because the whole MP/DS drama surrounding it really turned me away from them big time. I listened to one or two tunes but that was about it, until last week. After I listened Goodbye Divinity I thought that maybe the band would be worth checking out even if it didn't feel like the greatest thing ever. Turns out I listened to the debut again with fresh ears and I really liked most of it.

There are some pretty incredible and strong tracks that I really enjoyed like God of the Sun and Opus Maximus and others that felt to me like a quintaessential heavy/progressive metal track that's been done 150498 times by now, but that didn't stop me from enjoying the whole thing. It's funny because I think SoA is what MP was slowly turning DT into, even with the vocals. If by any reason JLB had quit the band I'm so sure that MP would've picked someone like JSS to take over him because of his "ballsy voice", using his own terminology; so at the very end MP did get what he wanted (with lots of bumps on the road, of course).

I'm eager to check out the new album!

And regarding the JSS thing in the track by track, I do agree with Kev's sentiment. From the get-go both Portnoy and Sherinian were blowing the whole thing out of the water like "let's reclaim our throne" and stuff like that, really pushing the boundaries (and clearly spending a lot of money) into making SoA not feel like a new band even though they were putting out their debut album and touring for the first time basically with only their names and fame as hooks for people to pay 200+ dollars for a Meet & Greet with a new band. That's kinda overwhelming.  I'm no expert in the matter but I feel that if they had spent more time winning over their potential fan base and just doing, as JSS says, playing the First Band Blues right, they would probably be a tad smaller than they are now but they would probably be on a steady growth as opposed to them being pretty much stuck in their current position. I can't see them getting much bigger than they are now by any means. Maybe a few more hundred thousand views in their YouTube channel and a couple of big venues but that's about it.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: gzarruk on November 28, 2019, 10:21:26 AM
It's funny because I think SoA is what MP was slowly turning DT into, even with the vocals. If by any reason JLB had quit the band I'm so sure that MP would've picked someone like JSS to take over him because of his "ballsy voice", using his own terminology; so at the very end MP did get what he wanted (with lots of bumps on the road, of course).

His first option would've definitely been Russell Allen.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Architeuthis on November 28, 2019, 12:08:32 PM
I was just reading the itinerary for the upcoming 2020 tour dates.  Only 13 dates in the U.S.,    I wonder what is up with that?   There's got to be a bigger market than that here in the states.. Afetr 13 dates I figured that would be when you are just getting warmed up.. Weird!      :huh:
   
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: MinistroRaven on November 28, 2019, 03:26:13 PM
I was just reading the itinerary for the upcoming 2020 tour dates.  Only 13 dates in the U.S.,    I wonder what is up with that?   There's got to be a bigger market than that here in the states.. Afetr 13 dates I figured that would be when you are just getting warmed up.. Weird!      :huh:
   

He said on FB or somewhere esle something like if you want more shows you have to make to these to show more interest to the promoters.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Fritzinger on November 29, 2019, 01:05:00 AM
It's funny because I think SoA is what MP was slowly turning DT into, even with the vocals. If by any reason JLB had quit the band I'm so sure that MP would've picked someone like JSS to take over him because of his "ballsy voice", using his own terminology; so at the very end MP did get what he wanted (with lots of bumps on the road, of course).

His first option would've definitely been Russell Allen.

I read about Gildenlöw somewhere, too.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: SwedishGoose on November 29, 2019, 05:11:28 AM
It's funny because I think SoA is what MP was slowly turning DT into, even with the vocals. If by any reason JLB had quit the band I'm so sure that MP would've picked someone like JSS to take over him because of his "ballsy voice", using his own terminology; so at the very end MP did get what he wanted (with lots of bumps on the road, of course).

His first option would've definitely been Russell Allen.

I read about Gildenlöw somewhere, too.

Gildenlöw would have been amazing but I don't think he would want to be in a band where he is not the undisputed leader, unlesz just as a sideproject.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: MirrorMask on November 29, 2019, 05:19:26 AM
He would have also essentially broken up their respective bands, or at the very least forced them to get a new singer changing forever their sound.

I'm more than 10000% glad that James is the ultimate DT singer but imagine if the split happened afer 2002 when it was considered - James would have forever been the classic singer, but by now he would have been surpassed by the new one. James would have had a tenure of 10-11 years and 5 albums, the new singer would have been in its 16-17th year of tenure with 8 albums.

Now that mere numbers matter in these cases, I assume many still consider Kevin Moore the "classic" DT keyboardist when he's been there for only 5 recording years and 3 albums. Jordan has four times Kevin's tenure by now.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Kwyjibo on November 29, 2019, 06:14:43 AM
There may come a time when Mangini is with the band longer than Portnoy was, but I think he will still be the "new" guy, at least for some.  :D
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Max Kuehnau on November 29, 2019, 06:16:31 AM
There may come a time when Mangini is with the band longer than Portnoy was, but I think he will still be the "new" guy, at least for some.  :D
I definitely hope so.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ReaperKK on November 29, 2019, 07:08:22 AM
Won't that be around year 2035?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Trav86 on November 29, 2019, 07:42:54 AM
They’ll retire long before then.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: gmillerdrake on November 29, 2019, 09:08:18 AM
I was just reading the itinerary for the upcoming 2020 tour dates.  Only 13 dates in the U.S.,    I wonder what is up with that?  There's got to be a bigger market than that here in the states.. Afetr 13 dates I figured that would be when you are just getting warmed up.. Weird!      :huh:
   

Not being a dick by 'why'? I don't think there is. The sizes of the venues and the blandness of the music I'd say it's a pretty specific audience. Maybe they do another leg but I doubt it since MP has (2) other bands (maybe 3 now that Transatlantic has recorded) that he will most likely either tour or be recording with.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on November 29, 2019, 09:17:21 AM
I was just reading the itinerary for the upcoming 2020 tour dates.  Only 13 dates in the U.S.,    I wonder what is up with that?  There's got to be a bigger market than that here in the states.. Afetr 13 dates I figured that would be when you are just getting warmed up.. Weird!      :huh:
   

Not being a dick by 'why'? I don't think there is. The sizes of the venues and the blandness of the music I'd say it's a pretty specific audience. Maybe they do another leg but I doubt it since MP has (2) other bands (maybe 3 now that Transatlantic has recorded) that he will most likely either tour or be recording with.

Seems like their first run through NA wasn't a huge success, MP has said if this tour doesn't do well, there won't be more.  It's a sign of the music and the audience here in the US.  The market for these guys is small and made even smaller when they talk smack (like they did last cycle, but have so far been much better this time). 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: DTA on November 29, 2019, 10:53:43 AM
I was just reading the itinerary for the upcoming 2020 tour dates.  Only 13 dates in the U.S.,    I wonder what is up with that?  There's got to be a bigger market than that here in the states.. Afetr 13 dates I figured that would be when you are just getting warmed up.. Weird!      :huh:
   

Not being a dick by 'why'? I don't think there is. The sizes of the venues and the blandness of the music I'd say it's a pretty specific audience. Maybe they do another leg but I doubt it since MP has (2) other bands (maybe 3 now that Transatlantic has recorded) that he will most likely either tour or be recording with.

Seems like their first run through NA wasn't a huge success, MP has said if this tour doesn't do well, there won't be more.  It's a sign of the music and the audience here in the US.  The market for these guys is small and made even smaller when they talk smack (like they did last cycle, but have so far been much better this time).

I mean they're playing in Jim Thorpe, PA. Who made that decision instead of Philadelphia? That's a like a 2 hour ride north of Philly in the middle of the damn Appalachians in winter-time. It's almost like they want low attendance
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Stadler on November 29, 2019, 11:00:10 AM
Correct me if I'm wrong here, but that's a common tour stop for a lot of bands at that level these days.  I think it's a casino gig (or something similar).  It's also in Mike's back yard (though I don't know if that has any bearing on things).

Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Architeuthis on November 29, 2019, 11:33:19 AM
On the last run through Seattle, they played the Showbox.  Awesome venue that holds around 1000 capacity.  It wasn't full that night but a decent turnout and enthusiastic crowd. I remember people being blown away at how good they were, including myself.  Their music is not bland and translates well live. 
 How are they going to establish a fanbase if they minimise their tours to only thirteen stops in the U.S. ?  I would think a lot of people in different cities want to see them again after the reaction from the crowd that I witnessed the first time around.
 It's too bad that the booking agents for the venues tend to shine on bands like this, even though there is a potential market for them.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on November 29, 2019, 11:51:04 AM
I was just reading the itinerary for the upcoming 2020 tour dates.  Only 13 dates in the U.S.,    I wonder what is up with that?  There's got to be a bigger market than that here in the states.. Afetr 13 dates I figured that would be when you are just getting warmed up.. Weird!      :huh:
   

Not being a dick by 'why'? I don't think there is. The sizes of the venues and the blandness of the music I'd say it's a pretty specific audience. Maybe they do another leg but I doubt it since MP has (2) other bands (maybe 3 now that Transatlantic has recorded) that he will most likely either tour or be recording with.

Seems like their first run through NA wasn't a huge success, MP has said if this tour doesn't do well, there won't be more.  It's a sign of the music and the audience here in the US.  The market for these guys is small and made even smaller when they talk smack (like they did last cycle, but have so far been much better this time).

I mean they're playing in Jim Thorpe, PA. Who made that decision instead of Philadelphia? That's a like a 2 hour ride north of Philly in the middle of the damn Appalachians in winter-time. It's almost like they want low attendance

I'm guessing those with actual money on the line made the decision.  I'd guess doing Philly was maybe difficult to book (maybe due to money, maybe due to scheduling conflicts) and this was a stop along the way that works for the band/promoters. I'm not really sure I know enough about touring logistics and the money involved to comment more. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Madman Shepherd on November 29, 2019, 12:09:23 PM
Regarding JSS stating that there were discussions about whether the band would even continue, who do you think were leaning towards ending it? I saw the final show of their very first "mini-leg" and JSS seemed over the moon with excitement. Derek has sort of made this his own band in my opinion. It appears as if he may be credited as sole producer on this latest album so I would probably eliminate the two of them as wanting to end it. Then again Jeff seemed pretty frustrated with Derek in the beginning and had moderate success with his band Soto and of course has TSO to fall back on so who knows.

Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on November 29, 2019, 12:15:36 PM
Regarding JSS stating that there were discussions about whether the band would even continue, who do you think were leaning towards ending it? I saw the final show of their very first "mini-leg" and JSS seemed over the moon with excitement. Derek has sort of made this his own band in my opinion. It appears as if he may be credited as sole producer on this latest album so I would probably eliminate the two of them as wanting to end it. Then again Jeff seemed pretty frustrated with Derek in the beginning and had moderate success with his band Soto and of course has TSO to fall back on so who knows.

These guys are all involved in so much, it could have been any of them. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Architeuthis on November 29, 2019, 12:39:25 PM
If all the members focused more on SOA 100% they may have more success. It seems as though they are spreading themselves too thin because of so many other projects, especially MP.  That's not a knock on him, it's amazing that he can do all that at once and I don't blame him for keeping his possibilities open. It's a juggling act, but he does have the drive and the passion for it.
 SOA is my favorite band he's involved in followed closely by the NMB.   I will be saddened if SOA decide to call it quits, because they have such a perfect line-up and put on a great show!  To me, each band member is irreplaceable.
 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Lupton on November 29, 2019, 12:51:13 PM
If all the members focused more on SOA 100% they may have more success. It seems as though they are spreading themselves too thin because of so many other projects, especially MP.  That's not a knock on him, it's amazing that he can do all that at once and I don't blame him for keeping his possibilities open. It's a juggling act, but he does have the drive and the passion for it.
 SOA is my favorite band he's involved in followed closely by the NMB.   I will be saddened if SOA call it quits, because they have such a perfect line-up and put on a great show!  To me, each band member is irreplaceable.

Well, when they think it's this great thing that it only takes them 9 days to write an album, why should they bother to focus more time on the band? "We works so fast! That makes us so superior to everyone. "  ::)

A handful of days to write, and probably a couple of weeks to record. All that is left is playing shows. That leaves the rest of the time to do what exactly?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Architeuthis on November 29, 2019, 01:14:11 PM
If all the members focused more on SOA 100% they may have more success. It seems as though they are spreading themselves too thin because of so many other projects, especially MP.  That's not a knock on him, it's amazing that he can do all that at once and I don't blame him for keeping his possibilities open. It's a juggling act, but he does have the drive and the passion for it.
 SOA is my favorite band he's involved in followed closely by the NMB.   I will be saddened if SOA call it quits, because they have such a perfect line-up and put on a great show!  To me, each band member is irreplaceable.

Well, when they think it's this great thing that it only takes them 9 days to write an album, why should they bother to focus more time on the band? "We works so fast! That makes us so superior to everyone. "  ::)

A handful of days to write, and probably a couple of weeks to record. All that is left is playing shows. That leaves the rest of the time to do what exactly?
  I think they are making really good music considering the short writing and recording process. Maybe that's the way they like to work,  or their only option.   I agree with what you are saying though. I would like to see them really focus and put their hearts and minds into making a masterpiece without any distractions. There's too much talent and potential in this band for them not to.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: The Walrus on November 29, 2019, 01:18:33 PM
I don't appreciate how Mike wants to get in and out with the writing/recording processes as fast as possible yet demands fans go the extra mile to support a band that despite what some of the members have said doesn't feel like a #1 priority altogether. Just always reminds me of the time he sarcastically condescended to a fan about there being "these things called airplanes" if a band isn't playing near him
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Architeuthis on November 29, 2019, 01:22:59 PM
Yeah,  not everyone can afford to just go hop on a plane and other logistics involving a trip. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Lupton on November 29, 2019, 01:32:39 PM
I don't appreciate how Mike wants to get in and out with the writing/recording processes as fast as possible yet demands fans go the extra mile to support a band that despite what some of the members have said doesn't feel like a #1 priority altogether. Just always reminds me of the time he sarcastically condescended to a fan about there being "these things called airplanes" if a band isn't playing near him

Seriously! It’s like he thinks he deserves more. These guys seem so full of themselves. I get it. Everyone in the band is prodigious at their instrument. Great. Well so are most classical musicians. Ever watch someone play Tchaikovsky’s Violin Concerto? Now that’s challenging stuff! From a technical perspective it makes anything any prog rock musician’s ever done look like “Hot Cross Buns”. This is the reason why songwriting is vastly more important than chops. Chops are a dime a dozen. Watching that one interview about them making that 1st album was so cringeworthy. Ron and Billy seem pretty down to earth and humble (like most the best musicians are), but the other guys can't seem to stop talking about how awesome they are. It was like a circular dick sucking contest. This is much more a turn-off to me than Derek's perceived onstage attitude. When you build something up, it creates a certain level of expectation. It made me curious enough to listen to some of the 1st album tracks on YouTube and man...talk about lameness. Just boring uninteresting crap (IMHO of course. If you like it then more power to you  :metal ). Was so surprised at just how uninspired and insipidly generic the songs seemed (again if this is your thing then I’m happy you have something to brighten your day!  :tup). But I couldn't make it through a single one. I don't know why, but it wouldn't be as bad to me if their attitude was more along the lines of "Yeah we just showed and slapped together a bunch of crap and said that'll do. Nothing serious. Just doing it for funsies, that’s all" because it sounds precisely that way.

You'd think they'd have learnt that maybe they need to focus more on the songwriting and come up with something more interesting the next time. Maybe it's just not in their collective wheelhouse? Well, as long as there's a bunch of over technical noodling in the music then I suppose that's all that matters right? Seriously, this band seems exactly like what DT always gets unfairly accused of by most non-fans: Great players who can't write for shit. There’s so much great music out there to listen to and these guys have the nerve to act like they should be deserving greater success than they already appreciate? uck. Their lucky anyone cares about what they’re doing at all. No thanks. I think I’ll pass on this next album as that single didn’t do anything for me. I’ll also stop posting in this thread as I don’t want to add any more negativity than I already have to it.

And for the 3rd time. If this is your thing then awesome. Just go about comforted in the knowledge that it must be this “Lupton” guy who has horrible taste and got it completely wrong. If it helps, I’ll admit I’m an idiot and I don’t know anything about what’s good. Does that work for everyone?  :angel:
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: The Walrus on November 29, 2019, 01:33:36 PM
I like this Lupton guy.  :lol
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Lupton on November 29, 2019, 01:37:40 PM
I like this Lupton guy.  :lol

Aw Thanks man. Right back atcha.  :laugh: I've always dug reading your posts.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Architeuthis on November 29, 2019, 01:49:06 PM
I like this Lupton guy.  :lol
Yeah,  I respect his opinion because he respects ours as he said above.  At least he likes Dream Theater so he's cool!   :tup  :coolio
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: KevShmev on November 29, 2019, 01:50:05 PM
Good post, Lupton!

And I will bold the below...

There’s so much great music out there to listen to and these guys have the nerve to act like they should be deserving greater success than they already appreciate?

Seriously.  I don't have enough time these days to listen to most of what I want to, so I am not about to waste much more time on this band just because two of the members used to be in one of my favorite bands.  I gave the first CD a shot and it was okay.  I gave this new single a shot and it was okay.  Sorry, members of SoA, but "okay music" isn't making its way into my CD player/iPhone on any kind of regular basis.  They aren't total crap like Kiss or Nickeback (most bands aren't), but this just isn't good enough to make a dent with me.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: emtee on November 29, 2019, 02:47:47 PM
I wonder if Mike will ever dedicate himself
fully and completely to any band. As a long time
fan, I would truly enjoy a recorded performance
where he demoed, refined, and attempted to
create something special.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Lupton on November 29, 2019, 03:01:39 PM
Yeah,  I respect his opinion because he respects ours as he said above.  At least he likes Dream Theater so he's cool!   :tup  :coolio
I certainly do consider myself a fan of DT and have enjoyed the majority of their output thus far. And indeed I do respect your opinion very much. :tup It's just as valid and correct as anyone else. Thanks for being so nice about it.  :) I hope you continue to enjoy the things that bring you happiness (be they SOA or whatever else).

I know I said I wouldn't post anymore in this thread. So I will not be offering anymore snide remarks or negative opinions of this band.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Architeuthis on November 29, 2019, 03:03:20 PM
I wonder if Mike will ever dedicate himself
fully and completely to any band. As a long time
fan, I would truly enjoy a recorded performance
where he demoed, refined, and attempted to
create something special.
He has been a big part of some special things. The two concept albums with the Neal Morse Band comes to mind. I Think SOA is special, but has the potential to be stellar!  Like you said, taking the time to demo and refine that leads to something great.   Maybe the new SOA album will surprise us.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: SwedishGoose on November 29, 2019, 03:20:37 PM
I wonder if Mike will ever dedicate himself
fully and completely to any band. As a long time
fan, I would truly enjoy a recorded performance
where he demoed, refined, and attempted to
create something special.
He has been a big part of some special things. The two concept albums with the Neal Morse Band comes to mind. I Think SOA is special, but has the potential to be stellar!  Like you said, taking the time to demo and refine that leads to something great.   Maybe the new SOA album will surprise us.

Well looking at the documentary on Similitude of a Dream Mike was happy and wanted to release after the first session. Neal was not satisfied though and went back and rearrang and rewrote and then they had another writing session together all of them.

Had Mike been in charge we would have much different version of Similitude of a Dream.

I think he needs good writers in the band and People who challenge his preffered way of making an album to get a better product.

Sadly SOA seems not to have that, they seem happy to slam so.ething together quickly just so they can tour.

Didn't like the first album... I mean it's not bad... but it's not good either and the second one seems to fall into the same trap.

Spending more time on it they might have been able to improve the album but maybe their strength is not in composing music.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Stadler on November 29, 2019, 07:18:56 PM
Good post, Lupton!

And I will bold the below...

There’s so much great music out there to listen to and these guys have the nerve to act like they should be deserving greater success than they already appreciate?

Seriously.  I don't have enough time these days to listen to most of what I want to, so I am not about to waste much more time on this band just because two of the members used to be in one of my favorite bands.  I gave the first CD a shot and it was okay.  I gave this new single a shot and it was okay.  Sorry, members of SoA, but "okay music" isn't making its way into my CD player/iPhone on any kind of regular basis. 

Perfect.  Brilliant.

Quote
They aren't total crap like Kiss or Nickeback (most bands aren't), but this just isn't good enough to make a dent with me.

Not perfect.  Not brilliant.  :)
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Orbert on November 29, 2019, 09:13:53 PM
I wonder if Mike will ever dedicate himself
fully and completely to any band. As a long time
fan, I would truly enjoy a recorded performance
where he demoed, refined, and attempted to
create something special.

Whatever one's opinion is of Mike and how he handled things, I think we all agree that the way things went down between himself and Dream Theater must have crushed him.  He poured his heart and soul into the band for many years, and in his mind and many others it was truly "his baby".  If he never brings himself to fully commit to a band again after that experience, I get it.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: gmillerdrake on November 29, 2019, 09:21:50 PM
I wonder if Mike will ever dedicate himself
fully and completely to any band. As a long time
fan, I would truly enjoy a recorded performance
where he demoed, refined, and attempted to
create something special.

Whatever one's opinion is of Mike and how he handled things, I think we all agree that the way things went down between himself and Dream Theater must have crushed him.  He poured his heart and soul into the band for many years, and in his mind and many others it was truly "his baby".  If he never brings himself to fully commit to a band again after that experience, I get it.

Ehhh....we’ve been over this one a billion times. It may have crushed him but it was his own doing. The way he tried to hamstring the DT guys with forcing a ‘break’ and his comments in the aftermath of the break leave little sympathy from me concerning how crushed he may have been/still be.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Orbert on November 29, 2019, 11:58:56 PM
Yeah, we've been over it a billion times, which is why I specifically mentioned that it's irrelevant, and that the point is the effect it had on him and why it might explain his reluctance to fully commit to a band.  It has absolutely nothing to do with sympathy.  It doesn't matter whose fault it is or was.  It happened, and it affected him.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: MirrorMask on November 30, 2019, 05:16:43 AM
Maybe that's how he likes to do it. It's a mix of:

- Habit
- Not being anymore a young hungry kid with nothing else to do
- Having professional and familiar commitments (his kids are getting adult but maybe he prefers to spend 3 hours with his son rather than spending 3 hours practicing drums)
- The need to have more projects going on for more income

And I know I might be talking out of my ass with this one, but I still suspect that LTE gave MP the idea that, since he could come up (or help other through his arranging, suggestions and generally being there during the creative process) with amazing music in a short timeframe, that's how it could have ALWAYS happened, regardless of the player involved and the style of the music (see the post above about him being already happy with the first writing session of Neal Morse's album). I know they've always wrote fast even before LTE, but since that project I noticed also in DT the vibe of the "ok, this sounds great, it will do" approach.

God of the Sun is the best song on the debut album and it's the one that got worked on most. I don't think that's a coincidence. Then again it's not a rule that if you spend a month on a song, it will turn out good, but still there's a better chance to avoid the same melody (See Alive and Coming Home).
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: KevShmev on November 30, 2019, 07:33:50 AM
Sons of Apollo is like that TV dinner you buy in the store.  It is quick to prepare and can taste decent enough at times to make some people happy, but is ultimately unsatisfying since it makes you feel like it should have been better given the ingredients involved.

Neal Morse Band is like that stew that you put in the crockpot early in the day and then take out right at dinner time.  It was given time to slowly cook and marinate, and by the time it is ready to go, you are like, "Ahhhhh, this is how it should be!"

 :coolio :hat
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Stadler on November 30, 2019, 07:48:08 AM
I wonder if Mike will ever dedicate himself
fully and completely to any band. As a long time
fan, I would truly enjoy a recorded performance
where he demoed, refined, and attempted to
create something special.

Whatever one's opinion is of Mike and how he handled things, I think we all agree that the way things went down between himself and Dream Theater must have crushed him.  He poured his heart and soul into the band for many years, and in his mind and many others it was truly "his baby".  If he never brings himself to fully commit to a band again after that experience, I get it.

Ehhh....we’ve been over this one a billion times. It may have crushed him but it was his own doing. The way he tried to hamstring the DT guys with forcing a ‘break’ and his comments in the aftermath of the break leave little sympathy from me concerning how crushed he may have been/still be.

Yeah, I don't know about you but for me "his own doing" doesn't always cover it.  I don't want to rehash Mike's specific situation, but we don't always do a great job of understanding and anticipating each and every consequence of all of our actions.  It's one thing when you kill someone - there's an expectation there - but everything down to the interpersonal... there's a lot of cases where you can't really know what you're going to do or how you'll feel until you touch the hot stove. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Madman Shepherd on November 30, 2019, 11:01:45 AM
If all the members focused more on SOA 100% they may have more success. It seems as though they are spreading themselves too thin because of so many other projects, especially MP.  That's not a knock on him, it's amazing that he can do all that at once and I don't blame him for keeping his possibilities open. It's a juggling act, but he does have the drive and the passion for it.
 SOA is my favorite band he's involved in followed closely by the NMB.   I will be saddened if SOA call it quits, because they have such a perfect line-up and put on a great show!  To me, each band member is irreplaceable.

Well, when they think it's this great thing that it only takes them 9 days to write an album, why should they bother to focus more time on the band? "We works so fast! That makes us so superior to everyone. "  ::)

A handful of days to write, and probably a couple of weeks to record. All that is left is playing shows. That leaves the rest of the time to do what exactly?

That's how they recorded the first one but it seems like they took more time with this one. From what I gathered they got together at Mike's house for a few days to jam and write as a group and then continued to write and record individually for the next several months. Not ideal but a better system than they had in place for the first one. All the while it seems as if Derek was acting as the sole executive producer.

I agree it's kind of arrogant to expect fans to devote more time to the band than they care to devote themselves though.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ErHaO on November 30, 2019, 07:44:08 PM
If all the members focused more on SOA 100% they may have more success. It seems as though they are spreading themselves too thin because of so many other projects, especially MP.  That's not a knock on him, it's amazing that he can do all that at once and I don't blame him for keeping his possibilities open. It's a juggling act, but he does have the drive and the passion for it.
 SOA is my favorite band he's involved in followed closely by the NMB.   I will be saddened if SOA call it quits, because they have such a perfect line-up and put on a great show!  To me, each band member is irreplaceable.

Well, when they think it's this great thing that it only takes them 9 days to write an album, why should they bother to focus more time on the band? "We works so fast! That makes us so superior to everyone. "  ::)

A handful of days to write, and probably a couple of weeks to record. All that is left is playing shows. That leaves the rest of the time to do what exactly?

That's how they recorded the first one but it seems like they took more time with this one. From what I gathered they got together at Mike's house for a few days to jam and write as a group and then continued to write and record individually for the next several months. Not ideal but a better system than they had in place for the first one. All the while it seems as if Derek was acting as the sole executive producer.

I agree it's kind of arrogant to expect fans to devote more time to the band than they care to devote themselves though.

Not sure where this "they barely put effort into it" narrative comes from, but here is a quote I found from Derek regarding their debut:

Quote
DS: No, we started writing about a year ago when Mike and I decided to do this. I started writing right away and demoing ideas. And then once he got Bumblefoot in it, he started doing the same. And then when we got in the studio we all collaborated and then put the record together. Some of the ideas were written individually, but they were completed in person in the studio when we recorded the record

While they completed the songs in a bit more than a week, they definitely did write and demo stuff beforehand. And in other interviews Derek/MP specifically mention the process behind God of the Sun as something that was written over a longer period of time.

This particular source: http://www.loveispop.com/interviews/a-god-strikes-an-interview-with-derek-sherinian-of-sons-of-apollo/ (http://www.loveispop.com/interviews/a-god-strikes-an-interview-with-derek-sherinian-of-sons-of-apollo/)
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Madman Shepherd on December 01, 2019, 08:17:20 AM
That's an interesting interview. The mediabook of the first album makes it seem like while there were some ideas worked out beforehand that the vast majority were done in the studio with the exception of God of the Sun.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Trav86 on December 02, 2019, 07:16:29 PM
I finally sat and watched the video for the new single today. It’s really not bad. Like, if the song comes up on shuffle, I’ll listen to it.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on December 03, 2019, 09:08:48 AM
I finally sat and watched the video for the new single today. It’s really not bad. Like, if the song comes up on shuffle, I’ll listen to it.

It's a solid song.  I don't turn it off when it comes up next when just listening to whatever youtube generates next for me.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: devieira73 on December 04, 2019, 12:32:43 PM
Interesting insight of this song composition process:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=gYG0O_irPtE&feature=youtu.be
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Bentower on December 05, 2019, 11:47:55 AM
Surprising to see that Goodbye Divinity has 1,1 million views on YouTube already. Good for them, but I can't help but wonder what caused that spike this time around. I listened to it twice and was underwhelmed enough to not make that thrice until I have the album in my hands.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on December 05, 2019, 11:57:42 AM
Surprising to see that Goodbye Divinity has 1,1 million views on YouTube already. Good for them, but I can't help but wonder what caused that spike this time around. I listened to it twice and was underwhelmed enough to not make that thrice until I have the album in my hands.

Coming home hit 1 million views fairly quickly too.  The guys have a lot of fans around the world who will and have checked it out. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bosk1 on December 05, 2019, 12:04:05 PM
Interesting insight of this song composition process:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=gYG0O_irPtE&feature=youtu.be

That's pretty cool.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Samsara on December 06, 2019, 09:42:16 AM
Interesting insight of this song composition process:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=gYG0O_irPtE&feature=youtu.be

That's pretty cool.

Agreed. Love this stuff.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ErHaO on December 07, 2019, 03:31:19 PM
Surprising to see that Goodbye Divinity has 1,1 million views on YouTube already. Good for them, but I can't help but wonder what caused that spike this time around. I listened to it twice and was underwhelmed enough to not make that thrice until I have the album in my hands.

Coming home hit 1 million views fairly quickly too.  The guys have a lot of fans around the world who will and have checked it out.

They are actually doing very well on at least yt for this type of music. Some of the Plovdiv live clips have hundreds of thousands of views as well. And Coming Home is at 3 million now even.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ytserush on December 07, 2019, 09:23:27 PM
I wonder if Mike will ever dedicate himself
fully and completely to any band. As a long time
fan, I would truly enjoy a recorded performance
where he demoed, refined, and attempted to
create something special.

From a business standpoint that doesn't make a lot of sense. Unfortunately we now live in a different time from when that was sustainable.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ytserush on December 07, 2019, 09:34:15 PM
Surprising to see that Goodbye Divinity has 1,1 million views on YouTube already. Good for them, but I can't help but wonder what caused that spike this time around. I listened to it twice and was underwhelmed enough to not make that thrice until I have the album in my hands.

Coming home hit 1 million views fairly quickly too.  The guys have a lot of fans around the world who will and have checked it out.

They are actually doing very well on at least yt for this type of music. Some of the Plovdiv live clips have hundreds of thousands of views as well. And Coming Home is at 3 million now even.

Might look good on paper but I don't understand how that translates into meaningful revenue.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ErHaO on December 08, 2019, 03:20:13 AM
Surprising to see that Goodbye Divinity has 1,1 million views on YouTube already. Good for them, but I can't help but wonder what caused that spike this time around. I listened to it twice and was underwhelmed enough to not make that thrice until I have the album in my hands.

Coming home hit 1 million views fairly quickly too.  The guys have a lot of fans around the world who will and have checked it out.

They are actually doing very well on at least yt for this type of music. Some of the Plovdiv live clips have hundreds of thousands of views as well. And Coming Home is at 3 million now even.

Might look good on paper but I don't understand how that translates into meaningful revenue.

Well, I wasn't talking about revenue, just that their online numbers are good.

But going into that, I know these days you need merch at concerts for revenue. But doing well at social media at the very least means people are listening to your material and that you can reach an audience to promote your material. Translating to ticket sales is difficult, but these days merch is also a big online bussines, but maybe not in metal. Furthermore, using youtube analytics they should be able to determine where there is the most interest. If a big chunk from the views come from a certain country/location, they could decide to focus on building an audience there.

Last time they canned part of their festival tour in EU I recall, I think that was bad luck/a big mistake, because that is where you can win audiences in these circles of music. Still, at least in the Netherlands they should be able to do better, they were sold out in advance and I could not see them.

It is clear that at the very least in the US they aren't happy and the promoters are not excited too. Hopefully they find a way to find their spot.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on December 08, 2019, 01:01:41 PM
I'd imagine someone at the record label or promoters run some sort of analytics on youtube to get an idea of an audience reach.  It only makes sense as one way to judge a band with a set of statistics.  Is there correlation to ticket sales or merch purchases?  I don't know, but I'd imagine so.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Adami on December 08, 2019, 01:49:23 PM
I doubt YT views show much of anything.

We have no idea how many people make up those views, since one person could watch it 10 times. We don’t know how much of it they watched. Maybe they turned off after a minute. Maybe they hated it. So a million views just says that. It was viewed to some extent that many times. Doesn’t mean a band has a ton of fans.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ytserush on December 08, 2019, 02:15:28 PM
Surprising to see that Goodbye Divinity has 1,1 million views on YouTube already. Good for them, but I can't help but wonder what caused that spike this time around. I listened to it twice and was underwhelmed enough to not make that thrice until I have the album in my hands.

Coming home hit 1 million views fairly quickly too.  The guys have a lot of fans around the world who will and have checked it out.

They are actually doing very well on at least yt for this type of music. Some of the Plovdiv live clips have hundreds of thousands of views as well. And Coming Home is at 3 million now even.

Might look good on paper but I don't understand how that translates into meaningful revenue.

Well, I wasn't talking about revenue, just that their online numbers are good.

But going into that, I know these days you need merch at concerts for revenue. But doing well at social media at the very least means people are listening to your material and that you can reach an audience to promote your material. Translating to ticket sales is difficult, but these days merch is also a big online bussines, but maybe not in metal. Furthermore, using youtube analytics they should be able to determine where there is the most interest. If a big chunk from the views come from a certain country/location, they could decide to focus on building an audience there.


It is clear that at the very least in the US they aren't happy and the promoters are not excited too. Hopefully they find a way to find their spot.

That does make some sense to analyze where the fan base might be and target accordingly but as other have said how trustworthy are the numbers  that would be used?

As far as the US goes, that's a big problem for many bands. It's not limited to just Sons of Apollo.  The US doesn't seem to be a very gig friendly place unless you are crazy huge and have a verifiable track record. It hasn't been for a while not but apparently this problem seems to be getting bigger.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on December 08, 2019, 02:15:56 PM
I doubt YT views show much of anything.

We have no idea how many people make up those views, since one person could watch it 10 times. We don’t know how much of it they watched. Maybe they turned off after a minute. Maybe they hated it. So a million views just says that. It was viewed to some extent that many times. Doesn’t mean a band has a ton of fans.

Well you actually do know all of that via youtube analytics.  And it would be a odd if the people who have money involved aren't analyzing that data.  Google has sooo much data if you look for it.

and I just checked my own channel, for this specific example I can see the average times a person viewed any given video, How many unique viewers, where they are located, view duration, do they watch another video, where did they come from to find the video, so much data.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: KevShmev on December 08, 2019, 02:17:15 PM
Is anyone else imaging someone chanting #MPWarriors while hitting F5 non-stop to rack up the views count? :P
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Adami on December 08, 2019, 02:22:08 PM
I doubt YT views show much of anything.

We have no idea how many people make up those views, since one person could watch it 10 times. We don’t know how much of it they watched. Maybe they turned off after a minute. Maybe they hated it. So a million views just says that. It was viewed to some extent that many times. Doesn’t mean a band has a ton of fans.

Well you actually do know all of that via youtube analytics.  And it would be a odd if the people who have money involved aren't analyzing that data.  Google has sooo much data if you look for it.

and I just checked my own channel, for this specific example I can see the average times a person viewed any given video, How many unique viewers, where they are located, view duration, do they watch another video, where did they come from to find the video, so much data.

Totally, I was more responding to the idea that they have a lot of views and therefor they are doing very well. From our perspective, all we see is the final number. I'm sure the band is well aware of everything.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on December 08, 2019, 02:24:39 PM
Is anyone else imaging someone chanting #MPWarriors while hitting F5 non-stop to rack up the views count? :P

I know this is a joke, but I don't think it works this way.  Only for your first 300 views will this work from my understanding.  To get a view after 300 might require watching it for a period of time or some other analytic, I don't know and youtube hasn't shared publicly what counts as a view after 300.  Maybe it is just someone refreshing, I don't know, but being it changes after 300 for advertising purposes, I'd imagine there's some algorithm involved that takes other things into account.  Once advertising is involved, they will try to make sure there isn't fraud involved (fake views and therefore ads being served to people not actually watching)

I doubt YT views show much of anything.

We have no idea how many people make up those views, since one person could watch it 10 times. We don’t know how much of it they watched. Maybe they turned off after a minute. Maybe they hated it. So a million views just says that. It was viewed to some extent that many times. Doesn’t mean a band has a ton of fans.

Well you actually do know all of that via youtube analytics.  And it would be a odd if the people who have money involved aren't analyzing that data.  Google has sooo much data if you look for it.

and I just checked my own channel, for this specific example I can see the average times a person viewed any given video, How many unique viewers, where they are located, view duration, do they watch another video, where did they come from to find the video, so much data.

Totally, I was more responding to the idea that they have a lot of views and therefor they are doing very well. From our perspective, all we see is the final number. I'm sure the band is well aware of everything.

Oh ok, yea more views does not equal being more successful.  There's so much more that goes into it.  Anyone can go viral, doesn't mean people are coming back for more or more importantly, giving you their money. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ErHaO on December 09, 2019, 07:40:18 AM
I doubt YT views show much of anything.

We have no idea how many people make up those views, since one person could watch it 10 times. We don’t know how much of it they watched. Maybe they turned off after a minute. Maybe they hated it. So a million views just says that. It was viewed to some extent that many times. Doesn’t mean a band has a ton of fans.

Well you actually do know all of that via youtube analytics.  And it would be a odd if the people who have money involved aren't analyzing that data.  Google has sooo much data if you look for it.

and I just checked my own channel, for this specific example I can see the average times a person viewed any given video, How many unique viewers, where they are located, view duration, do they watch another video, where did they come from to find the video, so much data.

Totally, I was more responding to the idea that they have a lot of views and therefor they are doing very well. From our perspective, all we see is the final number. I'm sure the band is well aware of everything.

Well, I don't think anyone here said that. But the fact that they get millions of views surely is not a bad sign. There are many projects/videos from popular artists that get way less attention online.

Surprising to see that Goodbye Divinity has 1,1 million views on YouTube already. Good for them, but I can't help but wonder what caused that spike this time around. I listened to it twice and was underwhelmed enough to not make that thrice until I have the album in my hands.

Coming home hit 1 million views fairly quickly too.  The guys have a lot of fans around the world who will and have checked it out.

They are actually doing very well on at least yt for this type of music. Some of the Plovdiv live clips have hundreds of thousands of views as well. And Coming Home is at 3 million now even.

Might look good on paper but I don't understand how that translates into meaningful revenue.

Well, I wasn't talking about revenue, just that their online numbers are good.

But going into that, I know these days you need merch at concerts for revenue. But doing well at social media at the very least means people are listening to your material and that you can reach an audience to promote your material. Translating to ticket sales is difficult, but these days merch is also a big online bussines, but maybe not in metal. Furthermore, using youtube analytics they should be able to determine where there is the most interest. If a big chunk from the views come from a certain country/location, they could decide to focus on building an audience there.


It is clear that at the very least in the US they aren't happy and the promoters are not excited too. Hopefully they find a way to find their spot.

That does make some sense to analyze where the fan base might be and target accordingly but as other have said how trustworthy are the numbers  that would be used?

As far as the US goes, that's a big problem for many bands. It's not limited to just Sons of Apollo.  The US doesn't seem to be a very gig friendly place unless you are crazy huge and have a verifiable track record. It hasn't been for a while not but apparently this problem seems to be getting bigger.

I don't know if (metal) bands/promoters use these metrics, but I do know in this day and age youtube/social media analytics are used for a variety of marketing purposes, and depending on the data, there might be some valuable insights. If it really is a bunch of fans watching the same video over and over for years, then (to a degree) the data will show that. If there is a large spike in some area, perhaps due to word of mouth or algorithms, then that could potentially be tracked with data.

There are many factors such as, view duration (people who hate it are more likely to turn it off), audience retention (people who like it are more likely to watch their other material as well), re-watches, engagement (comments, other interactions, the overall tone of these), types of audiences and overlap with other audiences (for a large overlap a co-tour can be considered, for example). Typically a combination of these factors can be used to profile potential consumers.

In the end, nothing is for certain, the world is far to complex to boil down to some assumptions based on a couple of metrics, but I would not underestimate the applications of internet analytics either. It is increasingly how this world is operating.


Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Stadler on December 09, 2019, 07:59:48 AM
In the end, nothing is for certain, the world is far to complex to boil down to some assumptions based on a couple of metrics, but I would not underestimate the applications of internet analytics either. It is increasingly how this world is operating.

And yet we do that all the time.  :) 

(Not saying this to undermine your point - I think you're spot on - but just to make a general observation.)
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: goo-goo on December 09, 2019, 09:35:09 AM
The Spotify/Youtube/Streaming analytics is a real thing. That was one of the main reasons King Crimson toured South America this time around. I think David Singleton or Robert Fripp addressed this on one of their diary entries.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: devieira73 on December 11, 2019, 01:54:47 PM
This friday:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=qArXB9xnH2U
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: emtee on December 11, 2019, 04:39:05 PM
Pretty cool intro fill.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: devieira73 on December 12, 2019, 08:18:19 PM
https://open.spotify.com/track/0upqZcB5Dq5xeIgYWol8Z4?si=5LPNpOpvSi-E7Ia4Tm3ztQ
Another really good song. The arrangements seem truly more worked this time (and I liked the first album a lot).
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: IDontNotDoThings on December 13, 2019, 12:02:05 AM
YouTube link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qofULQhk0ZQ


I'll be honest: I hate this song.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Bentower on December 13, 2019, 03:39:33 AM
More YEAH!'s from Soto, more NOT REALLY's from me.
Run-of-the-mill prog metal with an instrumental section lifted out of In the Name of God. So far this appears to be worse than the debut.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Podaar on December 13, 2019, 05:15:23 AM
I've always thought it is a real interesting idea, this band. Great players and performers get together and make a hard rockin', muscular, brand of prog. But the combination isn't working for me. The intro and vocal sections are all reminiscent of 1980's MSG, which is good (except for the "yeah"), but the instrumental section seems shoehorned in. Bumblefoot's work is interesting, but just not enough to make the instrumental work in the framework of the larger song. I enjoy listening to MP play, but I'm a bit bored with DS.

I keep giving it an honest listen but I'm going to have to pass if these first two songs are indicative of the album. I suspect, much like the first song, I'd enjoy it more if I could see them play.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bosk1 on December 13, 2019, 06:26:44 AM
Song is taken down and comments disabled.  ???
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Max Kuehnau on December 13, 2019, 06:28:53 AM
Song is taken down and comments disabled.  ???
strange, I'm able to listen to it via YT (and I'm actually doing that right now and I dislike it, which was to be expected) I'm not saying you're wrong though bosk, no no.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Polarbear on December 13, 2019, 07:25:28 AM
An OK song...

Sounds like C tier Odyssey-Underworld era SymX prog metal. Didn't do much for me, but i did like the first song they released from this new album.

So who knows? Might be good or not, but i will give the album a fair chance.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: KevShmev on December 13, 2019, 08:12:04 AM
Can I have those five minutes of my life back? :lol

Okay, the song wasn't that bad, but it was pretty generic and bland.  Reminds me of most of the songs from the first album in that regard.  Too bad, as this band has a lot of talent, but the songwriting just isn't there.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: The Walrus on December 13, 2019, 08:17:06 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I8K02hqnBxE

This link worked for me
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: jadiggerdt on December 13, 2019, 08:35:00 AM
So much talent but this band is sadly very boring. It seems that Mike is to much involved and you hear that. No progress at all. So sad!
Boring song.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bosk1 on December 13, 2019, 08:44:12 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I8K02hqnBxE

This link worked for me

:tup  Thanks, man.

After initial listen:  Good song.  Darker than what is on the first album, and I like that.  So far, I'm liking what I am hearing from album #2, so will likely buy. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Stadler on December 13, 2019, 08:50:27 AM
It's so cool they used that low E-string chug; it's so unique and special.  I don't think I've heard that before (well, except for about four of the songs on the first album). 

Not impressed. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: MinistroRaven on December 13, 2019, 08:55:32 AM
First 2 songs are BETTER than anything on the debut album.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bosk1 on December 13, 2019, 08:56:52 AM
It's so cool they used that low E-string chug; it's so unique and special.  I don't think I've heard that before (well, except for about four of the songs on the first album). 

Not impressed. 

I see the Portnoy haters are out early this morning.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Anxiety35 on December 13, 2019, 09:00:11 AM
Not really liking this one. It's pretty bland for me. Nothing sticks out. I think the thing I dislike the most is the vocals.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ErHaO on December 13, 2019, 09:00:50 AM
I liked the first one better bit think it is a solid song.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Stadler on December 13, 2019, 09:02:31 AM
It's so cool they used that low E-string chug; it's so unique and special.  I don't think I've heard that before (well, except for about four of the songs on the first album). 

Not impressed. 

I see the Portnoy haters are out early this morning.

Huh; I usually get dismissed as an #MPWarrior.  :)   

Not a hater at all; I stood mesmerized at Flying Colors in NYC a couple weeks ago.  Sitting on the edge of my chair waiting for Transatlantic, and I spent a good part of late October and early November defending Mike's description of LTE's music.   I just think this project is forced.  I've written before about how all the instruments seem to be fighting for a limited sonic space, and in my opinion, that leads to a very monotonous (in the literal sense of the word) experience.  That trope (I call it "nu metal", but I was told it's not) is part of it.  It's why I don't like Alter Bridge as much as I do Slash w/MKATC, because Tremonti relies on it as well. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: MinistroRaven on December 13, 2019, 09:07:11 AM
The debut from Sons Of Apollo - Psychotic Symphony came out 2 years ago today.  The band have just completed work on the follow up!
What’s your favorite on this album?

Mine? Ehhh, when the music stops!!!

Seriously I couldn’t get into them. I just hope the new album it’s something that I can enjoy

OK, promo copy just landed will pass judgement after I have listened to it.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ReaperKK on December 13, 2019, 09:07:24 AM
I liked the song, the middle section was really good and reminiscent of Dance of Eternity.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bosk1 on December 13, 2019, 09:10:24 AM
It's so cool they used that low E-string chug; it's so unique and special.  I don't think I've heard that before (well, except for about four of the songs on the first album). 

Not impressed. 

I see the Portnoy haters are out early this morning.

Huh; I usually get dismissed as an #MPWarrior.  :)   

I know.  I'm just messing with you.

OK, promo copy just landed will pass judgement after I have listened to it.

:caffeine:  I am eager to know what you think.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: IDontNotDoThings on December 13, 2019, 09:14:52 AM
It's so cool they used that low E-string chug; it's so unique and special.

Low E-string? Pfft, everyone know you're not real metal unless you tune down to drop A or some shit. Having clear note definition is for posers. That's why SOA is so much better than DT nowadays. XD
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Max Kuehnau on December 13, 2019, 09:17:41 AM
It's so cool they used that low E-string chug; it's so unique and special.

Low E-string? Pfft, everyone know you're not real metal unless you tune down to drop A or some shit. Having clear note definition is for posers. That's why SOA is so much better than DT nowadays. XD
I appreciate the sarcasm, but in all seriousness, clear note definition is not for posers.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Peter Mc on December 13, 2019, 09:19:12 AM
1st song had some good moments (mainly the intro to be honest!) and a passable if slightly meh chorus. This new one has no redeeming features for me, just a generic metal song lacking in any kind of memorable melody, and awful prog noodling solos also without any melody. This would be an automatic skip on any album and worrying if this is the song chosen as a single. I have been wrong before though such as when VH released Tattoo as a single for their last album and then the album turned out to be awesome.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Adami on December 13, 2019, 09:22:31 AM
It's not bad, which means it doesn't hurt to listen to or anything.


Sadly, not bad isn't good or good enough.

Think I'll skip out on this album sadly.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: New World Rushman on December 13, 2019, 09:34:27 AM
I liked the song, the middle section was really good and reminiscent of Dance of Eternity.

There were a couple spots where I was waiting for the Gnip-Gnop...

______________________________________________________

I don't think it's that bad. The first two tracks are making me hopeful.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Stadler on December 13, 2019, 09:47:52 AM
It's so cool they used that low E-string chug; it's so unique and special.

Low E-string? Pfft, everyone know you're not real metal unless you tune down to drop A or some shit. Having clear note definition is for posers. That's why SOA is so much better than DT nowadays. XD

HAHA.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bosk1 on December 13, 2019, 09:48:19 AM
I liked the song, the middle section was really good and reminiscent of Dance of Eternity.

There were a couple spots where I was waiting for the Gnip-Gnop...

Gold star for spelling it correctly.

https://boardgamegeek.com/geeklist/summary/thing/5232/page/3
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: The Walrus on December 13, 2019, 09:49:52 AM
This is some grade A chuggabro prog metal
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on December 13, 2019, 10:08:43 AM
I like it, also I like the music video.  It doesn't blow me away, it doesn't sound like anything new, but it's a solid metal song that shows off some chops and is catchy.  I like it better than the first single.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Max Kuehnau on December 13, 2019, 10:23:31 AM
It's so cool they used that low E-string chug; it's so unique and special.

Low E-string? Pfft, everyone know you're not real metal unless you tune down to drop A or some shit. Having clear note definition is for posers. That's why SOA is so much better than DT nowadays. XD

HAHA.
yep it's a good one.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: gzarruk on December 13, 2019, 10:23:47 AM
Only gave it one listen so far, but I don't remember any melody from the song. I think Goodbye Divinity had a much more memorable chorus and melody (and I didn't like it too much either).

There's a couple good sections here, and I appreciate it's more "prog" than most of the first album. The best part, though, was a riff that sounded way too much like Symphony X, Michael Romeo better start looking for a missing riff :lol
However, it definitely suffers from having many "copy-pasted" sections, it sounds like different song sections all thrown in and blended by MP's "magical arranging skills". And I still don't like Jeff's vocals/execution at all. Mike played this song really well, though.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Adami on December 13, 2019, 10:28:27 AM
Honest question....

If MP wasn't involved in this band, how much attention/leeway would any of us be giving it?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bosk1 on December 13, 2019, 10:34:53 AM
Honest question....

If MP wasn't involved in this band, how much attention/leeway would any of us be giving it?

It's a tough hypothetical, because if MP weren't involved, how would we even know about it, etc.?  But assuming it were brought up as "cool and interesting prog metal" and I were to give it a listen, I think I'd be exactly where I am now.  I like the songs because they're good songs.  In fact, given Mike's comments and conduct, I'm probably less inclined to give it attention if I didn't like it.  He isn't someone who gets the benefit of the doubt from me anymore, so if the quality isn't there, I'm out.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Ben_Jamin on December 13, 2019, 10:57:51 AM
I actually really liked it. Its exactly what I felt they needed more of. That instrumental alone is fantastic and I bet MP loves playing that style prog again.

Might check out this album on Spotify first though.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on December 13, 2019, 11:13:33 AM
Honest question....

If MP wasn't involved in this band, how much attention/leeway would any of us be giving it?

It's a tough hypothetical, because if MP weren't involved, how would we even know about it, etc.?  But assuming it were brought up as "cool and interesting prog metal" and I were to give it a listen, I think I'd be exactly where I am now.  I like the songs because they're good songs.  In fact, given Mike's comments and conduct, I'm probably less inclined to give it attention if I didn't like it.  He isn't someone who gets the benefit of the doubt from me anymore, so if the quality isn't there, I'm out.

Yea, I'm not sure if/how this band would have found my ears so it's hard to say, but the album didn't blow me away. It was seeing it live that did and since they were a replacement band at last years Progpower, I may have ended up discovering them that way and if that were the case, I may have actually liked them more because I wouldn't of known/cared about any of the drama leading up to the album.  Having said that, if I judged based on the music alone, I'd like to think I'd feel the same way.  It's good but nothing amazing.  I overall enjoy it, just don't love it.

Also at this point, I don't follow SOA because of MP at all, I actually really love Bumblefoot here and JSS as well.  I think those two make this band more interesting than any of the other members.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: BelichickFan on December 13, 2019, 11:21:47 AM
If that was Portnoy's vision for Dream Theater then good riddance. Just my taste, of course, but no strong melody, notes for the sake of notes, all riff nothing else. Just awful. I suppose I will try it then sell it like I did the first, but I can't see any way I will like this. Dream Theater has to great blend of musicians, melody, feel and heaviness when needed. SoA has just musicians and heaviness.

I am not a Portnoy hater, another DT quality band would have been awesome. But this isn't it.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Max Kuehnau on December 13, 2019, 11:26:04 AM
If that was Portnoy's vision for Dream Theater then good riddance. Just my taste, of course, but no strong melody, notes for the sake of notes, all riff nothing else. Just awful. I suppose I will try it then sell it like I did the first, but I can't see any way I will like this. Dream Theater has to great blend of musicians, melody, feel and heaviness when needed. SoA has just musicians and heaviness.

I am not a Portnoy hater, another DT quality band would have been awesome. But this isn't it.
from what I read, he sees it as exactly that though. (then again, I may be wrong of course)
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bosk1 on December 13, 2019, 11:26:15 AM
I get that you don't like it.  But I don't understand comments like this at all:
...but no strong melody, notes for the sake of notes, all riff nothing else.
It's like we aren't even listening to the same music.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Max Kuehnau on December 13, 2019, 11:27:47 AM
I get that you don't like it.  But I don't understand comments like this at all:
...but no strong melody, notes for the sake of notes, all riff nothing else.
It's like we aren't even listening to the same music.
"notes for notes`sake" - there are other bands for that I think.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: The Walrus on December 13, 2019, 11:29:49 AM
Forget melody, just chuggabro and tune down. "DOWN, LOWER, BELOW, AT THE BOTTOM, WHERE THE TRAIN OBSERVES YOU"
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Kyo on December 13, 2019, 11:32:41 AM
an instrumental section lifted out of In the Name of God.

I thought the same and the feel is kinda similar. But the tricky run in that particular section is actually taken from Derek's "The Sons of Anu" off "Black Utopia".  :smiley:
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Max Kuehnau on December 13, 2019, 12:09:42 PM
an instrumental section lifted out of In the Name of God.

I thought the same and the feel is kinda similar. But the tricky run in that particular section is actually taken from Derek's "The Sons of Anu" off "Black Utopia".  :smiley:
probably yes (I listened to that album once and I can't remember anything from it), which makes me think Derek's (and MP's for that matter) playing seems to be somewhat predictable. I'd agree with bosk as well (by saying that MP is not a "benefit of doubt" person for me anymore either), and MP being predictable also led me to not attending DT shows from 2005- 2014. Anyway, carry on. Don't mind me.  That being said, I may give it a listen upon release, seeing as I want to be somewhat fair. (although I may not like the album) There may be some good stuff on there, who knows. And they've done a good job if people love it (not necessarily me or not every current or former DT fan, but if anyone here loves the piece, go ahead, I don't want to suppress your enjoyment. Sorry if I did.)
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: MinistroRaven on December 13, 2019, 12:19:31 PM
 :\


---

This is better than first album for sure.
Currently favorites: Desolate July and King of Delusion.

Instrumental and Acappella tracks are a great addition too.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Max Kuehnau on December 13, 2019, 12:21:46 PM
:\


---

This is better than forst album for sure.
Currently favorites: Desolate July and King of Delusion.

Intrumental and Acappela tracks are a great addition too.
can you elaborate why, in case you're allowed to? (I'm actually interested, even if it doesn't seem like it)
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: devieira73 on December 13, 2019, 12:32:02 PM
:\


---

This is better than forst album for sure.
Currently favorites: Desolate July and King of Delusion.

Intrumental and Acappela tracks are a great addition too.

Cool, I would bet that for the two new songs! How about the piano/drums duet on King of Delusion? The instrumental versions are without solos? Thanks!
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: New World Rushman on December 13, 2019, 12:50:44 PM
I liked the song, the middle section was really good and reminiscent of Dance of Eternity.

There were a couple spots where I was waiting for the Gnip-Gnop...

Gold star for spelling it correctly.

https://boardgamegeek.com/geeklist/summary/thing/5232/page/3

It's Ping-Pong spelled backwards, I had the game when I was a kid (yeah, I'm that old).

 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bosk1 on December 13, 2019, 01:10:49 PM
I had the game when I was a kid (yeah, I'm that old).

Me too.  That's how I knew exactly what they were talking about when they described the section that way, as it appears you did as well.  :lol
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: MinistroRaven on December 13, 2019, 01:28:30 PM
:\


---

This is better than forst album for sure.
Currently favorites: Desolate July and King of Delusion.

Intrumental and Acappela tracks are a great addition too.

Cool, I would bet that for the two new songs!

1. How about the piano/drums duet on King of Delusion?

2. The instrumental versions are without solos? Thanks!


1. Fantastic

2. Include solos everything except, of course, vocals.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: gmillerdrake on December 13, 2019, 02:01:01 PM
Honest question....

If MP wasn't involved in this band, how much attention/leeway would any of us be giving it?

I can honestly say I wouldn't care one bit. Prior to SOA I hadn't intentionally heard one note from Bumblefoot or JSS. Knew Derek from DT but that was it and only knew the old Bass player from TWD's.....that other band I'd never have given a chance were it not an MP band.


Listened to the new track.....and much like the first release it has some cool moments but I had tuned the song out by the time it ended. Just doesn't grab me or do anything for me. I'll likely listen to the album because it's included in my Apple Music subscription but that'll be it.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Max Kuehnau on December 13, 2019, 02:01:13 PM
I laughed quite a bit when I first read the tracklisting and I found King Of Delusion there, because I remembered bosk (I think) posting something here along the lines of "Well, kings gotta king" (referencing Derek in some way I can't remember now) . Every bit as funny now as it was then. Thanks for that one bosk.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bosk1 on December 13, 2019, 02:08:15 PM
:lol  I wouldn't have made that connection, but...  :lol  Yeah...

Honest question....

If MP wasn't involved in this band, how much attention/leeway would any of us be giving it?

I can honestly say I wouldn't care one bit. Prior to SOA I hadn't intentionally heard one note from Bumblefoot or JSS. Knew Derek from DT but that was it and only knew the old Bass player from TWD's.....that other band I'd never have given a chance were it not an MP band.

Yeah, interesting that you mention that in light of Adami's question.  I first tuned in to TWDs because of MP, and otherwise wouldn't have.  And after two albums, I can affirmatively say, no interested.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Max Kuehnau on December 13, 2019, 02:18:21 PM
:lol  I wouldn't have made that connection, but...  :lol  Yeah...

Honest question....

If MP wasn't involved in this band, how much attention/leeway would any of us be giving it?

I can honestly say I wouldn't care one bit. Prior to SOA I hadn't intentionally heard one note from Bumblefoot or JSS. Knew Derek from DT but that was it and only knew the old Bass player from TWD's.....that other band I'd never have given a chance were it not an MP band.

Yeah, interesting that you mention that in light of Adami's question.  I first tuned in to TWDs because of MP, and otherwise wouldn't have.  And after two albums, I can affirmatively say, no interested.
well that's what I'm here for, finding obscure humour and pointing it out (amongst other things)
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: DTA on December 13, 2019, 03:09:25 PM
It's like every song is a typical verse/chorus/verse/chorus/prog bridge/chorus. Where's the uniqueness in structure? The music's played well but everything just feels just so obvious and by-numbers. I know MP fashions himself as a song-arrangement genius or whatever, but every song has the exact same structure with only the lengths of each part being extended to make the songs longer. CHANGE THE FORMULA for fucks sake
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: KevShmev on December 13, 2019, 03:30:35 PM
Honest question....

If MP wasn't involved in this band, how much attention/leeway would any of us be giving it?

Not much, but he has an overall good track record in his non-DT projects, IMO, so I will almost always check them out.  This one isn't a total dud like Adrenaline Mob, but it doesn't come close to what I would call his best non-DT bands/side projects (LTE, Transatlantic, Flying Colors, Neal Morse Band).  Ultimately, when looking them over, the moral of the story is his bands just aren't very good if they don't include John Petrucci or Neal Morse, which goes back to what I alluded to before: you can have great players and all of the talent in the world in a band, but you need songs.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: gzarruk on December 13, 2019, 03:56:15 PM
:\


---

This is better than first album for sure.
Currently favorites: Desolate July and King of Delusion.

Had to be, these musicians are top notch and their debut was a complete mess (they didn't even try to make it good), so it shouldn't be too difficult for them to top it  :P
Looking forward to checking the tracks you mentioned + the epic.


It's like every song is a typical verse/chorus/verse/chorus/prog bridge/chorus. Where's the uniqueness in structure? The music's played well but everything just feels just so obvious and by-numbers. I know MP fashions himself as a song-arrangement genius or whatever, but every song has the exact same structure with only the lengths of each part being extended to make the songs longer. CHANGE THE FORMULA for fucks sake

That's what I was saying on my previous post here, SOA songs have that MP trademark arrangement style all over the place, where you have a regular verse/chorus song with a bunch of random riffs and solo trade-offs thrown together mid-song to make it "prog" (see: A Rite of Passage). At the end, it just sounds like a disjointed mess in the middle of an average song at best.


Not much, but he has an overall good track record in his non-DT projects, IMO, so I will almost always check them out.  This one isn't a total dud like Adrenaline Mob, but it doesn't come close to what I would call his best non-DT bands/side projects (LTE, Transatlantic, Flying Colors, Neal Morse Band).  Ultimately, when looking them over, the moral of the story is his bands just aren't very good if they don't include John Petrucci or Neal Morse, which goes back to what I alluded to before: you can have great players and all of the talent in the world in a band, but you need songs.

Indeed, great musicians doesn't always mean great songs. Mike is really handy for song-arranging, but he needs good songs to work with and, without a good songwriter, there's not much he can do, imo.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: emtee on December 13, 2019, 04:05:51 PM
Like all of SoA material, It's played well. Sonically It's great.
Problem for me is I feel nothing when listening to it.
Great musicians. Decent singer. No emotional connection
whatsoever. Almost like paint-by-the-numbers music,
for lack of a better description.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Peter Mc on December 13, 2019, 09:12:07 PM
Honest question....

If MP wasn't involved in this band, how much attention/leeway would any of us be giving it?

Not much, but he has an overall good track record in his non-DT projects, IMO, so I will almost always check them out.  This one isn't a total dud like Adrenaline Mob, but it doesn't come close to what I would call his best non-DT bands/side projects (LTE, Transatlantic, Flying Colors, Neal Morse Band).  Ultimately, when looking them over, the moral of the story is his bands just aren't very good if they don't include John Petrucci or Neal Morse, which goes back to what I alluded to before: you can have great players and all of the talent in the world in a band, but you need songs.

Does he really still have a good track record? All subjective of course but I find most of his stuff these days to be fairly poor. In his time in DT he had a bit of a Midas touch with Liquid Tension Experiment, Transatlantic, Neal Morse, even OSI was decent if not quite on the level of those other bands. Since leaving though he’s had Adrenaline Mob, Winery Dogs, Flying Colors, Metal Allegiance and Sons Of Apollo. Can’t say I care for any of those projects. He’s still doing ok with Neal in NMB and TA but all the newly formed stuff has been disappointing to me. I can see the merits a little bit with Flying Colors as it does have top class musicians but I can’t get past Casey’s voice unfortunately so I’m unable to enjoy them.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Shadow Ninja 2.0 on December 13, 2019, 09:25:22 PM
I think Mike's problem is that his projects nowadays don't really have songwriters. Mike's good at arranging things, taking pieces and putting them together, reprising bits, and all that. But that only really works when he's got good pieces to work with from the beginning, either from JP and JR when he was in DT, or from Neal, Roine, and Pete in Transatlantic. I don't think he's much of a writer himself, and none of his projects post-DT have had someone who is, as far as I can tell.

Combine that with the fact that a lot of the projects feel a bit like a checklist of people he wants to play with rather than a group naturally arising from musical chemistry, and that none of these projects feel like a full-time commitment (for any of the members), and you've got yourself a pretty good formula for technically proficient but ultimately stale and pedestrian music.

I'm not trying to bash on the guy, because I've liked a lot of what he's done in the past (and preferred the material DT was putting out when he was in the band, versus now), but this is just my take on the situation.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Bentower on December 14, 2019, 04:39:52 AM
It's like every song is a typical verse/chorus/verse/chorus/prog bridge/chorus. Where's the uniqueness in structure? The music's played well but everything just feels just so obvious and by-numbers. I know MP fashions himself as a song-arrangement genius or whatever, but every song has the exact same structure with only the lengths of each part being extended to make the songs longer. CHANGE THE FORMULA for fucks sake

BINGO!

I'm sad to say that Ron's metal playing has so far been adequate at best. It's clearly not his strongest suit. We've heard the choppy chug riffs of these two songs on the debut already. I find that they lack groove, which is something his solo material has always had in spades. I've been a fan of his for nearly 20 years now, but this context leaves me wanting. I also feel that he hasn't been able to channel his songwriting prowess into SoA. There's a wealth of fine craftsmanship in his past work; She Knows, Delilah, Raygun, Hands, Rowboat, to name a few.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Madman Shepherd on December 14, 2019, 09:00:20 AM
So I've been a bit fascinated with Jeff Scott Soto, how I'd basically never heard of him, why he was chosen for SoA and if perhaps it was a misstep to have him join the band since his vocals while not bad by any means, but didnt stand out much. On amazon, a few of his cds popped up on a sidebar for relatively cheap, 6-7 bucks size I figured I'd give them a shot.

First up was his solo cd retribution. Immediately I was struck by how much better his voice sounded. I had to double check when it was released. Same year as Psychotic Symphony. Granted, the vocals were a little more processed but by no means artificial. Also, the melodies just seemed much more inspired. It wouldn't be JSS with a few cringeworthy moments such as the lyrics, "liar pants on fire!" His solo stuff is a bit lighter, never going beyond hard rock but I honestly haven't listened to it much.

Next up, I picked up the Soto cd Divak. I gotta say, this grew on me fast. Again, the vocals sound great. The music is heavy with a few progressive elements. Mostly aggressive and melodic. Instead of harmonizing with Bumblefoot and Portnoy which can be, um, not great, he harmonizes with his own vocals and it sounds awesome. The songs are pretty catchy. A few of been running through my head the last week.

Honestly, this is what adrenaline mob should have sounded like. You want something more mainstream? This is the way to do it. A few people have said JSS is a poor mans russell allen. I disagree. I think russell allen is a poor mans JSS. Granted, I have heard much RA but nothing has impressed me. Maybe one day I'll change my mind like with JSS.

But the last thing I want to say is, this is proof that JSS is being underutilized. I have a theory that with everything Portnoy and Derek have said about wanting SoA to be like a traditional metal band meant for the live setting, I think they are purposely holding him back so the band's backing vocals are expected, his vocals dont come across as too progressive, and possibly trying to make them more raw. This does him a disservice. All vocalists do some processing whether it's a little reverb or some effects but it can positively effect the music immensely.

I'm not sure if anybody here will like the Soto cd and it didnt blow me away but it is much better than I could have imagined.

As for the new SoA song: meh. I wasnt blown away by Goodbye Divinity but grew to love it but this one seems a bit more bland. We'll see.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: RodrigoAltaf on December 14, 2019, 03:11:38 PM
Origami, Jeff Scott Soto's latest album, is absolutely great!
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on December 14, 2019, 05:38:54 PM
Also check out W.E.T. which is JSS with Eclipse's Erik, catchy hard rock.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Peter Mc on December 14, 2019, 08:00:39 PM
If you’re looking for Soto at his peak take a look at Marching Out by Yngwie Malmsteen or some of Axel Rudi Pell’s early stuff like Eternal Prisoner.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Architeuthis on December 15, 2019, 12:59:47 AM
I think JSS is perfect for SOA, he's a great frontman and his voice fits this kind of music.  I thought he was amazing live and In the studio.  You guys do have me curious about his other works though. 
  I really hope SOA gains momentum and keep putting out albums,  too much talent to let it fade away.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: devieira73 on December 15, 2019, 04:56:03 AM
Origami, Jeff Scott Soto's latest album, is absolutely great!
Totally agree with that! Catchy hard rock really well done.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: devieira73 on December 15, 2019, 05:15:10 AM
I really hope SOA gains momentum and keep putting out albums,  too much talent to let it fade away.
That’s my wish too... It seems, from the majority here, this band is already a big failure. But I have the impression that this opinion about them is bit better from a less hardcore fan base. I know personally another 5 DT fans (besides me and less uber fans like me) and all of them liked the SoA first album a lot. Just for comparision, only 3 liked at least a good part of The Astonishing (including me - In fact, the other 3 HATED TA). The point is, it’s a small group, but I think it maybe represents the average opinion of DT fan base. So, I think there’s still chance for SoA to grow in popularity.
PS: and 3 of them only heard the SoA album by Spotify, which doesn’t help these days :P ::)
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Fritzinger on December 15, 2019, 05:36:06 AM
I think the new song has the same problem as Coming Home and also Paralyzed by Dream Theater: All of them have a nice pre-chorus that leads up to - nothing. It just leads back to the main riff with the title of the song being repeated over it.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Madman Shepherd on December 15, 2019, 07:17:37 AM
Thanks for the suggestions. A few months back I did get Soto's Yngwie albums. He barely sounds anything like what he does now but I guess he was 19 or something at the time. Not a huge Yngwie fan but it sounded good.

I forgot to mention Dave Z.'s contribution to the Soto album. Unfortunately all i knew about him while he was alive was that he was a replacement of a replacement in Adrenaline Mob. When he died, Portnoy had posted a hilarious video Dave made on tour. So I had no connection with any music he did but he obviously seemed like a cool dude. Well, after listening to Soto, the dude can shred. Really cool bass lines and I think he cowrote one song.

Tragic loss, especially how it all went down.

Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: RodrigoAltaf on December 15, 2019, 07:21:25 AM
 David Z was an amazing musician, and I could definitely see him reaching the level that Billy Sheehan is at today. I saw him live with Soto when they opened for The Winery Dogs (on the Hot Streak tour) and he was killer!
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ErHaO on December 15, 2019, 07:31:49 AM
I checked out Divak (2016) by Soto and think the album is pretty lit. Interested ine exploring the other SOTO albums.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: MoraWintersoul on December 16, 2019, 01:30:29 AM
That’s my wish too... It seems, from the majority here, this band is already a big failure.
Not necessarily! Maybe an artistic failure, and people here are all too focused on whether the music is original enough to warrant the band's existence, but they don't seem to be struggling to find an audience. They MAY have a problem converting that audience into butts in seats, because concerts cost a lot and they're competing with a lot of bands in this tier, some of them Portnoy's. I think most of us want nothing but success for them even though they aren't our cup of tea.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Max Kuehnau on December 16, 2019, 04:15:19 AM
That’s my wish too... It seems, from the majority here, this band is already a big failure.
Not necessarily! Maybe an artistic failure, and people here are all too focused on whether the music is original enough to warrant the band's existence, but they don't seem to be struggling to find an audience. They MAY have a problem converting that audience into butts in seats, because concerts cost a lot and they're competing with a lot of bands in this tier, some of them Portnoy's. I think most of us want nothing but success for them even though they aren't our cup of tea.
and I actually think that (as much as these two aren't my cup of tea so much) MP and Derek actually make sense in this band (in some ways anyway)
Side question on JSS: Before SOA happened, I've heard him on Yngwie albums (and Axel Pell as well) and I liked him there, my question is: I heard he was with Journey for some time. Do you think he was good there? (he's not someone I would have expected in that band, especially since Steve Perry is hard to replace I guess and he is somewhat special as a vocalist IMHO)
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Kwyjibo on December 16, 2019, 05:15:50 AM
I've heard some bootlegs with JSS in Journey and I think he wasn't the right choice. He has a totally different voice than Steve Perry and the old songs just didn't work (imo) with his vocal style.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Anxiety35 on December 16, 2019, 07:30:31 AM
It's like every song is a typical verse/chorus/verse/chorus/prog bridge/chorus. Where's the uniqueness in structure?

I agree on this. I'll add this intro/verse/chorus/verse/chorus/prog bridge/chorus

Not piling on as we all can find something to criticize in any song, album, band, etc. Speaking exclusively to the music, SOA has made it easy to do so. The musicianship is great but the songs are just average to above average. I don't see an improvement from the last album in the 2 songs we've been presented. Looks like we will have a better idea when the entire album is released.

Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bosk1 on December 16, 2019, 07:42:03 AM
I heard he was with Journey for some time. Do you think he was good there? (he's not someone I would have expected in that band, especially since Steve Perry is hard to replace I guess and he is somewhat special as a vocalist IMHO)

I'm oversimplifying and doing some guesswork here, but this is my take:  His natural and most comfortable range is high baritone.  He can hit some VERY high notes, but cannot sustain singing in that higher register for extended periods.  In his younger days, he could get away with it by pushing and straining, and singing in falsetto.  But as he has aged, that ability has left him due to just age, wear and tear from improper singing technique, and wear and tear from living a...er..."rock and roll lifestyle" (if you know what I mean).  So, he has lost some range and stamina, for probably a variety of reasons.

To me, this has been evidence for a long time.  I know Samsara disagrees with me on this, but I will hold up his time in Journey as an example.  He was with them in 2006-2007.  And while I liked him a lot as a vocalist, I absolutely felt that he was the wrong choice for the band back then, at least in terms of being able to perform the old material (I would have been completely open to hearing a new album with him where they could write stuff that more suited his style and range).  I saw them live on that tour when they co-headlined with Def Leppard.  He sounded great on some songs.  And his stage presence was awesome.  But he cheated on a LOT of notes.  And even with Deen taking lead vocals on some songs to give him a break, his voice was noticeably losing power and range as the show wore on, and it was clear to me that, although he could fake it for a few songs, that Steve Perry range wasn't comfortable enough for him to make it through an entire set.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Max Kuehnau on December 16, 2019, 07:46:24 AM
I heard he was with Journey for some time. Do you think he was good there? (he's not someone I would have expected in that band, especially since Steve Perry is hard to replace I guess and he is somewhat special as a vocalist IMHO)

I'm oversimplifying and doing some guesswork here, but this is my take:  His natural and most comfortable range is high baritone.  He can hit some VERY high notes, but cannot sustain singing in that higher register for extended periods.  In his younger days, he could get away with it by pushing and straining, and singing in falsetto.  But as he has aged, that ability has left him due to just age, wear and tear from improper singing technique, and wear and tear from living a...er..."rock and roll lifestyle" (if you know what I mean).  So, he has lost some range and stamina, for probably a variety of reasons.

To me, this has been evidence for a long time.  I know Samsara disagrees with me on this, but I will hold up his time in Journey as an example.  He was with them in 2006-2007.  And while I liked him a lot as a vocalist, I absolutely felt that he was the wrong choice for the band back then, at least in terms of being able to perform the old material (I would have been completely open to hearing a new album with him where they could write stuff that more suited his style and range).  I saw them live on that tour when they co-headlined with Def Leppard.  He sounded great on some songs.  And his stage presence was awesome.  But he cheated on a LOT of notes.  And even with Deen taking lead vocals on some songs to give him a break, his voice was noticeably losing power and range as the show wore on, and it was clear to me that, although he could fake it for a few songs, that Steve Perry range wasn't comfortable enough for him to make it through an entire set.
this is the answer I wished for, thanks bosk
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Peter Mc on December 17, 2019, 11:08:29 AM
I would counter this slightly by saying that, although I don’t think he was the right choice for Journey, he actually sounded pretty good imo in the show that I saw. The set was a little tailored for him I think with them including some of their more rockier material from Frontiers and they did draft in Deen for the big power ballads (who also sang them really well) but he by no means sounded out of place.  He actually did an album with Neal Schon for a short lived band called Soul Sirkus (I think that was the spelling) and did a Journey style ballad on there with a passable impersonation of Perry. It wasn’t a bad album from memory and I was a little sceptical as his voice was starting to show its age by the end of his run with Axel Rudi Pell but he continued to sound decent on this without going for the big high screams anymore.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Lowdz on December 18, 2019, 09:26:27 AM
I would counter this slightly by saying that, although I don’t think he was the right choice for Journey, he actually sounded pretty good imo in the show that I saw. The set was a little tailored for him I think with them including some of their more rockier material from Frontiers and they did draft in Deen for the big power ballads (who also sang them really well) but he by no means sounded out of place.  He actually did an album with Neal Schon for a short lived band called Soul Sirkus (I think that was the spelling) and did a Journey style ballad on there with a passable impersonation of Perry. It wasn’t a bad album from memory and I was a little sceptical as his voice was starting to show its age by the end of his run with Axel Rudi Pell but he continued to sound decent on this without going for the big high screams anymore.

I’ve always been a JSS fan and I saw Soul Sirkus live. His voice is struggling for the higher stuff now but he has been a great, powerful singer for a long time. It’s strange to think he was only 17 (I think) on the first Rising Force album - he sounded much older.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ytserush on December 18, 2019, 06:28:10 PM
Honest question....

If MP wasn't involved in this band, how much attention/leeway would any of us be giving it?

Anything with the Billy Sheehan on it always gets my attention. Unfortunately, based on the first studio album I wasn't all that impressed. The live album/DVD is still a keeper. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: RodrigoAltaf on December 20, 2019, 02:40:46 PM
 I just did an interview with MP, talking primarily of Sons of Apollo. He mentioned that the next song to be released is Desolate July. It's a different track from what they did before - very soulful kinda song, and talks about the loss of David Z, who died on the Adrenaline Mob accident. He was also on Soto's band.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: MinistroRaven on December 22, 2019, 01:43:42 PM
Mike Portnoy Drum & Vox Cam - Sons Of Apollo - Fall To Ascend (Stereo Headphone Mix)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x2v3pM1IBhs&feature=youtu.be
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: MinistroRaven on December 26, 2019, 09:40:39 AM

Sons Of Apollo - Goodbye Divinity
3,291,789 views

 :metal
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ytserush on December 26, 2019, 12:22:13 PM

Sons Of Apollo - Goodbye Divinity
3,291,789 views

 :metal

I wonder how that will translate in about 6 months.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Setlist Scotty on December 29, 2019, 04:28:12 PM
Interesting little tidbit I stumbled across - Billy was apparently Derek and Mike's only choice for bass when they were first putting SoA together. But if he wasn't available, one of the names that they considered as a backup was Wolfie Van Halen:
https://youtu.be/3OCrPNYGg98?t=1809
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Max Kuehnau on December 29, 2019, 04:33:25 PM
Interesting little tidbit I stumbled across - Billy was apparently Derek and Mike's only choice for bass when they were first putting SoA together. But if he wasn't available, one of the names that they considered as a backup was Wolfie Van Halen:
https://youtu.be/3OCrPNYGg98?t=1809
not someone I would have thought of tbh, but I always liked his work in Tremonti and of course with VH as well. Not sure how he would have fit in with Derek and MP though.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Anguyen92 on December 29, 2019, 04:43:30 PM
Well, the thing is with Wolfgang, his age is like half of those guys.  It's hard to say if it would have worked out.  I mean Wolfgang hasn't done anything since the last Van Halen tour (in 2015......) and he left Tremonti.  He says he's been working on a solo album, but he could have released it by now.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Ben_Jamin on December 29, 2019, 05:43:13 PM
Interesting little tidbit I stumbled across - Billy was apparently Derek and Mike's only choice for bass when they were first putting SoA together. But if he wasn't available, one of the names that they considered as a backup was Wolfie Van Halen:
https://youtu.be/3OCrPNYGg98?t=1809


Honestly, that just shows they don't know many Bassists. There are plenty other bassists other than Wolfgang.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Architeuthis on December 30, 2019, 09:48:53 AM
Interesting little tidbit I stumbled across - Billy was apparently Derek and Mike's only choice for bass when they were first putting SoA together. But if he wasn't available, one of the names that they considered as a backup was Wolfie Van Halen:
https://youtu.be/3OCrPNYGg98?t=1809


Honestly, that just shows they don't know many Bassists. There are plenty other bassists other than Wolfgang.
I'm certainly glad they got Sheehan!
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Setlist Scotty on December 30, 2019, 02:18:03 PM
Interesting little tidbit I stumbled across - Billy was apparently Derek and Mike's only choice for bass when they were first putting SoA together. But if he wasn't available, one of the names that they considered as a backup was Wolfie Van Halen:
https://youtu.be/3OCrPNYGg98?t=1809
Honestly, that just shows they don't know many Bassists. There are plenty other bassists other than Wolfgang.
Actually, I'd say that's the furthest thing from the truth! More than anyone else in DT, MP really seems to put himself out there to work with as many different musicians as possible. And given the wide variety of people that have been involved in DS's solo albums, I'd say the same is true for him. Keep in mind that the idea of considering Wolfie was just one possibility - from what DS said, it sounds like they had at least a few other bassists they might have approached had Billy not been up for it. And they likely had a specific style/sound they wanted for SoA, and Wolfie must have fit within those parameters so that they had him on the list of other bassists. Would be interesting to find out who the other bassists were, and for that matter, who would've been their back up choices on guitar and vocals had either Bumblefoot or JSS not been available.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Max Kuehnau on December 30, 2019, 02:49:04 PM
Interesting little tidbit I stumbled across - Billy was apparently Derek and Mike's only choice for bass when they were first putting SoA together. But if he wasn't available, one of the names that they considered as a backup was Wolfie Van Halen:
https://youtu.be/3OCrPNYGg98?t=1809
Honestly, that just shows they don't know many Bassists. There are plenty other bassists other than Wolfgang.
Actually, I'd say that's the furthest thing from the truth! More than anyone else in DT, MP really seems to put himself out there to work with as many different musicians as possible. And given the wide variety of people that have been involved in DS's solo albums, I'd say the same is true for him. Keep in mind that the idea of considering Wolfie was just one possibility - from what DS said, it sounds like they had at least a few other bassists they might have approached had Billy not been up for it. And they likely had a specific style/sound they wanted for SoA, and Wolfie must have fit within those parameters so that they had him on the list of other bassists. Would be interesting to find out who the other bassists were, and for that matter, who would've been their back up choices on guitar and vocals had either Bumblefoot or JSS not been available.
my guess for a guitarist would have been Steve Stevens, but what am I to know (because he is an adventurous player as well IMHO, you'll hear that in his records with Tony Levin and Terry Bozzio)
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Adami on December 30, 2019, 03:12:05 PM
Since leaving DT, MP has been instrumental (as opposed to joining) in the creation of 4 or so bands. SoA, Winery Dogs, PMPS or whatever, and Flying Colors. I'm excluding Adrenaline Mob and the other Neil Morse stuff since he wasn't really a driving force in the creation of those.

And of those 4 projects, 3 have Billy Sheehan. So the whole "MP works with as many musicians as possible" doesn't seem to apply to bass.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: TAC on December 30, 2019, 03:15:21 PM
Bassically, yeah.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Adami on December 30, 2019, 03:16:16 PM
Bassically, yeah.

That's low, man.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ReaperKK on December 30, 2019, 03:49:48 PM
Low like the low notes a double neck bass can hit?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Madman Shepherd on December 30, 2019, 04:42:33 PM
Since leaving DT, MP has been instrumental (as opposed to joining) in the creation of 4 or so bands. SoA, Winery Dogs, PMPS or whatever, and Flying Colors. I'm excluding Adrenaline Mob and the other Neil Morse stuff since he wasn't really a driving force in the creation of those.

And of those 4 projects, 3 have Billy Sheehan. So the whole "MP works with as many musicians as possible" doesn't seem to apply to bass.

Probably has as much to do with his availability as it does them wanting him specifically as a bass player. Mr. Big doesn't really tour full time and any conflict he has with the Winery Dogs would also be a conflict with Portnoy, they can easily block off the christmas season for Jeff, up until Bumblefoot joined Asia he didn't have any consistent conflict, and Derek never seems to have a job soooooooooooo that basically gives them a solid 9-10 months where they only have to work around Portnoy's other schedule and some odd stuff here and there.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Setlist Scotty on December 30, 2019, 07:35:56 PM
Since leaving DT, MP has been instrumental (as opposed to joining) in the creation of 4 or so bands. SoA, Winery Dogs, PMPS or whatever, and Flying Colors. I'm excluding Adrenaline Mob and the other Neil Morse stuff since he wasn't really a driving force in the creation of those.

And of those 4 projects, 3 have Billy Sheehan. So the whole "MP works with as many musicians as possible" doesn't seem to apply to bass.
Interesting, but I don't think that's a completely accurate take on things. For one, AFAIK, PSMS was never intended to be something more than what it was - essentially a cover band of sorts (tho a lot of the music they performed was written/recorded by one or more of the guys). They didn't plan on doing original music. So I wouldn't count that any more than I would The Shattered Fortress (who, BTW, had bass player not named Billy Sheehan).

And you are forgetting about Metal Allegiance, which MP was instrumental in putting together. Yeah, it started off basically as a cover band collective with rotating individuals, but they've branched out into doing original music and the core of the band has 2 bass players, neither of which is Billy.

For that matter, why limit your consideration to just the bands/projects that MP's helped put together since leaving DT? What about LTE, TA and OSI? Sure Billy was one of the two bass players MP wanted for LTE, but he got Tony Levin instead. And neither TA nor OSI have Billy.

So I still stand by my statement that "MP works with as many musicians as possible."
 
 
Probably has as much to do with his availability as it does them wanting him specifically as a bass player. Mr. Big doesn't really tour full time and any conflict he has with the Winery Dogs would also be a conflict with Portnoy
Good point!
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: RodrigoAltaf on January 03, 2020, 07:22:03 AM
My review of MMXX was published today: https://www.sonicperspectives.com/album-reviews/sons-of-apollo-mmxx/

Hope you like it.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Architeuthis on January 03, 2020, 09:43:11 AM
My review of MMXX was published today: https://www.sonicperspectives.com/album-reviews/sons-of-apollo-mmxx/

Hope you like it.
Nice review, thanks for posting!   The release date however, is in 2020, not 2019..   ;)
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: RodrigoAltaf on January 03, 2020, 09:58:25 AM
Fixed! Thanks for the feedback, man.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: MinistroRaven on January 03, 2020, 11:32:03 AM
Here's Bosk1 Review of the album:

Sons of Apollo Expand Their Legacy With Sophomore Effort, MMXX

As a fan of Sons of Apollo’s debut album, Psychotic Symphony, I eagerly anticipated their 2019 follow-up, MMXX (pronounced “Twenty-Twenty,” according to keyboardist, Derek Sherinian).  But although I enjoyed Psychotic Symphony and the show I attended supporting that album, I was a bit concerned that the band’s second album might be a let-down.  Any doubts I had were quickly dispelled.  MMXX absolutely lives up to the standard Sons of Apollo set for themselves.  The album is a fine collection of melodic, progressive hard rock.

Sons of Apollo was formed in 2017 by drummer Mike Portnoy (who names Dream Theater, Avenged Sevenfold, The Winery Dogs, and The Neal Morse Band among his many current and former bands), keyboardist Sherinian (ex-Alice Cooper, ex-Dream Theater, Black Country Communion), guitarist Ron “Bumblefoot” Thal (ex-Guns N’ Roses, ex-Asia), bassist Billy Sheehan (ex-David Lee Roth, ex-Mr. Big), and vocalist Jeff Scott Soto (ex-Yngwie Malmsteen, ex-Journey, Trans-Siberian Orchestra).  Given the diverse musical background of these players, and the chops each member brought to the table, fans initially wondered whether this musical collaboration would be extreme, technical progressive metal, classic hard rock, or something else entirely.  The debut album can perhaps best be described as a little bit of all of that.  At times, they sounded like Deep Purple.  At others, like Queen.  At still others, like Dream Theater.  The songs tended to have a strong classic hard rock feel.  But some longer song lengths, odd time signatures, and complex instrumental passages gave the songs a bit more of a “progressive” feel.  And while none of that may be groundbreaking, the band’s melding of these styles gave them a unique identity.

To me, the word that best describes MMXX is “consistent.”  It does not bring anything to the table that sounds new or different from Psychotic Symphony.  Rather, it takes the signature sound the band established on their first album, and continues that direction with a bit more tightness and focus that one would expect after a band has written and toured together.  Some fans may be disappointed that the band is not covering any new territory with MMXX.  But those who, like myself, enjoyed the first album will likely find MMXX right up their alley as well.  MMXX takes what worked on Psychotic Symphony and simply continues in that direction.  They know what works for them musically and do not see any reason to change the formula.

MMXX opens with its first single, Goodbye Divinity.  Those familiar with Dream Theater, and specifically the Sherinian-era album Falling Into Infinity, will likely immediately recognize a note progression at the beginning of the song that bears a strong resemblance to parts of New Millennium, as well as an overall feel and vibe similar to Lines in the Sand.  Goodbye Divinitysounds like it could easily have been a cover of something composed by Dream Theater during this era. 

The album also has its fair share of upbeat rockers, such as the next two tracks, Wither To Black and Asphyxiation.  Both feature catchy, interesting drum beats that sound complex, yet groovy, great hard rock riffs, and catchy vocal melodies.  MMXX continues in the same hard rock vein with the amazing drum beats and heavy riffs of Fall To Ascend and Resurrection Day, the latter of which features a very nice intro section with some guitar and keyboard riffing that may be my favorite on the entire album. 

To me, MMXX really shines with the two mid-album, mid-tempo songs Desolate July and King of Delusion.  Both are dark, anthemic, and “epic”-sounding.  Desolate July begins with a haunting piano line by Sherinian, along with some ambient keyboard and guitar sounds that help build the atmosphere.  Soto then comes in with soft vocals until the song shortly explodes into an emotional chorus that has all musicians firing on all cylinders.  King of Delusion, the longer of the two songs, begins similarly by featuring Derek on piano.  But the introduction, while being fairly soft, is also frantic and filled with foreboding.  After just over a minute, Bumblefoot bursts onto the scene with some very tasty riffing.  Sherinian’s organ patches, Soto’s raspy vocals, and Sheehan’s signature fuzzy bass tone then kick the song up a notch. 

MMXX concludes with the nearly-sixteen minute epic, New World Today.  As to be expected simply by the length of the song, New World Today combines a lot of different sounds, tempos, and moods.  It also contains some long instrumental passages, which are expected signature elements of any album with Portnoy and Sherinian. 

Overall, MMXX is a winner.  As stated above, it does not tread much new ground or deviate significantly from what the band did on Psychotic Symphony.  But it does not need to.  The album takes what the band does well and delivers more of the same.  Those who hoped that the band would cover new territory will likely be disappointed.  Those who liked the first album will likely be thoroughly satisfied.  Count me as a happy customer.

   

Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: MinistroRaven on January 03, 2020, 01:37:31 PM
FTA writing sessions

https://youtu.be/3N0VbIa-fmI
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ReaperKK on January 03, 2020, 02:19:16 PM
That resurrection day b section from the writing video sounds great, gives me a tool vibe.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: MinistroRaven on January 03, 2020, 02:29:01 PM
My review of MMXX was published today: https://www.sonicperspectives.com/album-reviews/sons-of-apollo-mmxx/

Hope you like it.

Good review man, as always!!
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: RodrigoAltaf on January 04, 2020, 08:07:04 AM
My review of MMXX was published today: https://www.sonicperspectives.com/album-reviews/sons-of-apollo-mmxx/

Hope you like it.

Good review man, as always!!

Thanks man!
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: pcs90 on January 04, 2020, 11:13:01 PM
Three things, without getting too deep into the album:

1. Bumblefoot is still, without a doubt, the star of this band. That man can play. He's able to balance the crazy stuff with really tasty licks, so the solos feel like there is thought put into them rather than just jumbles of notes (I.E. most of Derek's.)

2. The opening to the epic is very haunting, and also very familiar-sounding. It sounds very much like something from one of Derek's solo albums. Then I realized, there is in fact a track on one of his solo albums that appears to be almost the exact same theme. It's on the 2009 album, I forget the name of the track, but it's an interlude. I'll try to find the track I am referencing later, because if you listen to it you've basically heard the opening to the epic (except I think Bumblefoot's interpretation is better.) The theme that follows sounds straight out of one of the more melodic Planet X cuts. Nice.

3. There's a really cool slow section in the epic that has an interesting solo from Derek. Interesting because, while there are still jumbles of notes mixed in, there are also some very nice ideas. By far the best keyboard solo on the album. Sadly some of the jumbles of notes are not even clean. If this solo took a little more time to build it would be fantastic. Maybe live it will be extended so that he can build to the climax over a longer period of time and therefore start slower...
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: RodrigoAltaf on January 06, 2020, 08:57:20 AM
 I posted this on the Mike Portnoy thread already, but there's some great insights on the new SOA album on the interview I did with Mike. Check it out on the link below:

 
https://www.sonicperspectives.com/interviews/interview-with-mike-portnoy/
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Architeuthis on January 06, 2020, 09:37:15 AM
Well done Rodrigo!  It's interesting how he juggles the cycles of each band to keep them in the spotlight.  Great stuff..  :tup
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: RodrigoAltaf on January 06, 2020, 01:45:31 PM
Well done Rodrigo!  It's interesting how he juggles the cycles of each band to keep them in the spotlight.  Great stuff..  :tup

Thanks! Mike has shared it on all his social media, and I'm happy with how the interview turned out.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: devieira73 on January 07, 2020, 06:43:07 PM
Another very good interview, Rodrigo!
Interesting to hear MP reconizing that it would be better to be an opening act for a more established band, if they were invited, that to play in small clubs for the pre-existing fans.
If I understood right, they incorporated some musical ideas already recorded in Derek’s instrumental solo albums, which I think it’s really nice.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bosk1 on January 07, 2020, 07:59:47 PM
I would LOVE it if they could get on as an opener for a much bigger band, and it would be great for them as well.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: devieira73 on January 08, 2020, 04:33:37 AM
I would LOVE it if they could get on as an opener for a much bigger band, and it would be great for them as well.
Yes, “this is the way” ;)
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on January 08, 2020, 06:34:50 AM
I've been saying that for awhile, but I'm surprised with all that talent and longevity in the business, that they haven't gotten approached to open for someone, but then again, maybe being prog metal is a reason.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Stadler on January 08, 2020, 08:06:56 AM
Don't misunderstand me, I would love to see that (and support that as a path forward; playing to half-full 1,200 seat club is great for me as a fan, but is a limiting proposition), but who do they open for?  I know we've said "prog-metal", but they've self-described as more Deep-Purple-ish hard rock.  Do you see them opening the Purple/Priest double bill?  That gives them 30 minutes tops on stage.    Who else is big enough to have them open?  I can't imagine an "Ozzy" or "Vince Neil" is going to want to follow that.   Maybe Maiden? 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: MirrorMask on January 08, 2020, 08:19:24 AM
I'm not saying it's gonna happen, but Maiden had far wackier (and nepotistic) choices than Sons of Apollo. If Trivium can open for Maiden, I can't imagine that many Maiden fans being horrified at the idea of seeing either Mike Portnoy, a classic singer like Jeff or a virtuoso like Bumblefoot (or all of them together).
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: TAC on January 08, 2020, 08:27:05 AM
By the time Iron Maiden comes back here, SOA may not even be a thing anymore.   
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on January 08, 2020, 08:44:06 AM
By the time Iron Maiden comes back here, SOA may not even be a thing anymore.

True.  I do think Maiden would be awesome for them to open for but it seems every single metal band wants that spot.  It's tough competition. 

I think they could open for Avenged Sevenfold on their next tour.  There's the MP connection and A7X is close enough to a prog metal to have some crossover fan bases potentially. 

Maybe even American hard rock bands would be a good option, Breaking Benjamin or Halestorm types.  It wouldn't need to be an arena or amphitheater tour.  At this point playing in a 2-3k theater with one other bigger band might be good enough for them to get exposure vs being the 3rd band on a double headline bill. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Stadler on January 08, 2020, 08:44:52 AM
I'm not saying it's gonna happen, but Maiden had far wackier (and nepotistic) choices than Sons of Apollo. If Trivium can open for Maiden, I can't imagine that many Maiden fans being horrified at the idea of seeing either Mike Portnoy, a classic singer like Jeff or a virtuoso like Bumblefoot (or all of them together).

Well, lately, Maiden shows have been the Steve Harris Family Hour, and I get that.  If anyone has earned that prerogative, it's Steve Harris, but still.  The point was, who can realistically support having SOA on the bill.

EDIT:  Actually, you know who would be a good choice?  KISS.  They're already having David Lee Roth (solo) open some shows.  That would be PERFECT. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: NoFred on January 08, 2020, 08:49:01 AM
Open for DT  :lol
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Max Kuehnau on January 08, 2020, 08:50:59 AM
Open for DT  :lol
Please. No.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on January 08, 2020, 08:53:01 AM
EDIT:  Actually, you know who would be a good choice?  KISS.  They're already having David Lee Roth (solo) open some shows.  That would be PERFECT.

I thought about Kiss too, and with the consideration of DLR, but I didn't list them because isn't this supposed to be the end of the road?  :biggrin:  But all things equal, I don't see why not Kiss.  Why not Poison as well?  Their last tour they brought Cheap Trick and Pop Evil.  SOA could fill that Pop Evil spot IMO of a modern hard rock band.  Bumblefoot has the GnR background, I think that could open the door for the 80s glam bands to open for.  Maybe they were trying to get that Joan Jett spot like so many other bands on the 80s arena tour this summer  :lol
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: emtee on January 08, 2020, 08:54:07 AM
I can think of many bands they could open for.
Alter Bridge is one.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Anguyen92 on January 08, 2020, 10:00:46 AM
I can think of many bands they could open for.
Alter Bridge is one.

Yeah, I can see that working, but Alter Bridge doesn't really play the bigger rooms that modern bands like Breaking Benjamin, Disturbed, Halestorm , etc. do for their own (single headliner) shows.  They only play up to like 1,500 people at a time in North America.  Europe is a different story.  Also, a reference point here is a few bands that opened for AB in the last few years in the states (some of you guys probably don't know these bands): Monster Truck, Adelitas' Way, Nonpoint, All That Remains, and soon to be Clint Lowery of Sevendust.

I don't think it would benefit all that much Sons of Apollo playing venues that holds 1,500 people in comparison to what they were playing in their run in 2018.  Getting festival spots in Europe in festivals like Download, Rock AM Ring, Graspop, Hellfest, etc. would benefit them big though.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Max Kuehnau on January 08, 2020, 11:17:27 AM
Desolate July will be the next single. IO teased it on YT just now and so I would guess that (by their usual logic) that it will be released this Friday. The album will be released next Friday as we know.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bosk1 on January 08, 2020, 11:18:47 AM
Desolate July is fantastic.  It's kind of its own thing, so I hate to pigeonhole it.  But if I had to draw a comparison from the last album, I would say it is probably most similar to Labrynth. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Stadler on January 08, 2020, 02:12:12 PM
I can think of many bands they could open for.
Alter Bridge is one.

Hey stranger. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Stadler on January 08, 2020, 02:13:58 PM
Look, I totally get that if they DID get an opening slot, it's not to win over guys like me (who are happy to see them in a 1,500 seat place with 700 of my closest friends), but there is zero shot of me seeing them open for Disturbed, Breaking Benjamin, Halestorm, etc.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on January 08, 2020, 02:22:13 PM
I can think of many bands they could open for.
Alter Bridge is one.

Yeah, I can see that working, but Alter Bridge doesn't really play the bigger rooms that modern bands like Breaking Benjamin, Disturbed, Halestorm , etc. do for their own (single headliner) shows.  They only play up to like 1,500 people at a time in North America.  Europe is a different story.  Also, a reference point here is a few bands that opened for AB in the last few years in the states (some of you guys probably don't know these bands): Monster Truck, Adelitas' Way, Nonpoint, All That Remains, and soon to be Clint Lowery of Sevendust.

I don't think it would benefit all that much Sons of Apollo playing venues that holds 1,500 people in comparison to what they were playing in their run in 2018.  Getting festival spots in Europe in festivals like Download, Rock AM Ring, Graspop, Hellfest, etc. would benefit them big though.

I agree about those European festivals, get on the bill!  Also agree that maybe opening for a 1.5k crowd isn't the best, but I do think if they got it just a little further at 2-3k it would help.  The first run of shows locally were at 1k capacity and half empty, this next tour is playing a 500 capcaity NYC venue.  If they can't pack that place, then maybe the 1.5k opening slots would really be attractive for them afterall.

Look, I totally get that if they DID get an opening slot, it's not to win over guys like me (who are happy to see them in a 1,500 seat place with 700 of my closest friends), but there is zero shot of me seeing them open for Disturbed, Breaking Benjamin, Halestorm, etc.

Understandable, but you already recognize that wouldn't be the point of doing the opening slot.  It's the 1500 who never heard of them.  Also, you are missing out on not seeing those bands.  Just my opinion but I saw all three of those you mentioned in 2019 and all are fantastic live.  Hatestorm maybe the most impressive as I didn't think I'd really like them, but I saw them because they opened for Alice Cooper.  Now I'm a Halestorm fan and might see them this winter.  See that's how opening for a band works especially when you are as talented as Lzzy Hale or the members of SOA.  You're musical chops and great performance WILL win some people over.  But you never get that opportunity to win over new fans playing only to your current fanbase.

Funny to, the first time I saw Disturbed like 3 or so years ago, they had Breaking Benjamin and Alterbridge as the openers.  I don't see why SOA can't sneak into a line up like that and find some success.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Stadler on January 08, 2020, 02:32:10 PM
You're right, because it happened with Ghost when you and I saw Maiden that time. I went in thinking "wtf?" and even though I made fun of it a little (the stage patter), I actually like most of the music I've heard from them so far.   

I think of all of those I'd like to give Disturbed a shot; I really enjoyed that video of the vocal coach commenting on Draiman singing "The Sound Of Silence".  That was killer.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: TAC on January 08, 2020, 03:42:17 PM
Might not had ever become a Dream Theater fan had I not seen them in an opening slot. It literally changed my life.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Stadler on January 08, 2020, 03:45:39 PM
That was how I got into Maiden.  45 minutes that - like you - changed my life. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: TAC on January 08, 2020, 03:46:59 PM
That was how I got into Maiden.  45 minutes that - like you - changed my life.

I was already a big fan. I just wasn't old enough for my parents to let me go. :lol
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Architeuthis on January 09, 2020, 02:26:31 AM
Might not had ever become a Dream Theater fan had I not seen them in an opening slot. It literally changed my life.
That is so awesome!  :metal
 I became a Maiden fan in 2010 when Dream Theater opened for them in Seattle. I was there to see DT more-so than Maiden, but Maiden was great too and I have been hooked ever since.  I still think DT had a better mix and sound that night, which is unusual for an opening act..   :tup
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on January 09, 2020, 06:22:45 AM
I discovered Avatar this year when Devin Townsend opened for them.  Fell in love with that band right away, some bands can just bring it live.  All of the other people I was hanging with that night also became Avatar fans.  I really do think SOA's best ability besides their individual name recognition of the band members is their tight live performance. It's what really won me over two years ago as I was lukeworm on the album, but seeing them live, I became a legit fan. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: emtee on January 09, 2020, 06:55:37 AM
I can think of many bands they could open for.
Alter Bridge is one.

Hey stranger.


Hi Stads. Hope you are well.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: RodrigoAltaf on January 09, 2020, 07:13:06 AM
I discovered Avatar this year when Devin Townsend opened for them.  Fell in love with that band right away, some bands can just bring it live.  All of the other people I was hanging with that night also became Avatar fans.  I really do think SOA's best ability besides their individual name recognition of the band members is their tight live performance. It's what really won me over two years ago as I was lukeworm on the album, but seeing them live, I became a legit fan.

Avatar is another band I discovered after being offered a chance to interview. I had no idea what to expect, and when I started listening to them and seeing their live videos, I fell in love with this band!!!
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on January 09, 2020, 07:55:28 AM
I checked videos out online before seeing the show, it didn't do them justice.  The singles were fine but not really what snagged me as a fan.  That live show was just wild, I never seen a band pull a show off like that at that venue.  It inspired me to see them again when they opened for Babymetal later in the year.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: emtee on January 09, 2020, 09:33:10 AM
The Desolate July teaser sounds cool.
I hear notes that remind me of ACOS.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bosk1 on January 09, 2020, 09:37:32 AM
I had not made a connection to ACOS.  But having said that, I don't think it's a stretch.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Stadler on January 09, 2020, 01:38:39 PM
That was how I got into Maiden.  45 minutes that - like you - changed my life.

I was already a big fan. I just wasn't old enough for my parents to let me go. :lol

Well I was a "fan" already too, but to that point music was just sound coming out of a speaker.  Watching Bruce run around like a maniac, and Dave actually playing that shit live, and seeing Eddie teeter around the stage... it was crazy shit. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: gmillerdrake on January 09, 2020, 02:28:12 PM
I had not made a connection to ACOS.  But having said that, I don't think it's a stretch.

Honestly there's a few sections of music in the first album that heavily 'call back' to the DS era of DT. It's not surprising to see/hear it'd continue on this album.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: RodrigoAltaf on January 09, 2020, 02:51:33 PM
I had not made a connection to ACOS.  But having said that, I don't think it's a stretch.

I made the connection instantly, but had already mentioned DT three times in my review of the new album, and felt that mentioning them too much would be repetitive. But once you hear it, you can't deny it!
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Max Kuehnau on January 09, 2020, 03:38:28 PM
I had not made a connection to ACOS.  But having said that, I don't think it's a stretch.

I made the connection instantly, but had already mentioned DT three times in my review of the new album, and felt that mentioning them too much would be repetitive. But once you hear it, you can't deny it!
Three is a party, according to Warhol, so no pressure Rodrigo.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: MinistroRaven on January 09, 2020, 05:26:18 PM
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Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: devieira73 on January 09, 2020, 09:06:03 PM
The piano melody of Desolate July indeed has a bit of the feel of aCoS intro and there are parts that reminded me Planet X and DS solo stuff, so, very nice song! Something that I’m liking a lot on these 3 songs released is that there is a lot more layers from the keyboard and guitars than the first album.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Bentower on January 10, 2020, 03:07:38 AM
I thought it was merely okay and yet the best of the three singles. I'm still in no hurry to re-listen to this one either.

Heartfelt as it may be, that's a bit of an iffy rhyme scheme in the chorus.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Art on January 10, 2020, 04:42:48 AM
Desolate July sounds good, probably my favorite performance from JSS of the three songs that are out.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Anxiety35 on January 10, 2020, 06:53:36 AM
I didn't care for the song at all. Kind of boring to me.

Just not feeling Sons of Apollo.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on January 10, 2020, 06:55:08 AM
Least interesting song of the three, felt a bit bored as well.  Then Fall to Descend played next and I really do like that one. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: emtee on January 10, 2020, 07:09:04 AM
Decent song. No big feels but played solidly.
I expected something different based on the
cool intro.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Grappler on January 10, 2020, 07:37:03 AM
Desolate July is one of my favorite tracks from the record.  It's just so dark and moody, and a great way to pay tribute to Dave Z.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: MinistroRaven on January 10, 2020, 08:23:39 AM
Desolate July is one of my favorite tracks from the record.  It's just so dark and moody, and a great way to pay tribute to Dave Z.

 :metal

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TARWOs8h7Hw
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: jadiggerdt on January 10, 2020, 09:02:21 AM
Naah. Listen to the whole album today. Its quite boring and thats quite sad. Mike its to much involved and he hasnt progressed in years. He fits better in FC and with Neal.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bosk1 on January 10, 2020, 09:16:12 AM
Listen to the whole album today.

Ok, I will then.  Thanks.

Its quite boring and thats quite sad.

Wait, it is?  Then how come you want me to listen to it?  I'm confused.  ???

Mike its to much involved and he hasnt progressed in years.

Is that even English?  What?

He fits better in FC and with Neal.

Okay.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Max Kuehnau on January 10, 2020, 01:04:38 PM
Listen to the whole album today.

Ok, I will then.  Thanks.

Its quite boring and thats quite sad.

Wait, it is?  Then how come you want me to listen to it?  I'm confused.  ???

Mike its to much involved and he hasnt progressed in years.

Is that even English?  What?

He fits better in FC and with Neal.

Okay.
loved the way you interacted here, bosk. Very reminiscent of John Cleese.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Adami on January 10, 2020, 01:07:21 PM
So three songs released and I have liked none of them enough to buy.

Guess I'll be skipping this release.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Madman Shepherd on January 10, 2020, 05:57:29 PM
Of the three songs, this one is in 2nd place. (GD in 1st). I dig the groove, the melodies, but the lyrics are kind of... off.

"So tell me 'cause I don't really want to know"

So do you want to be told or not?

But the beginning sounds strikingly like ACOS. For a guy that ripped on Dream Theater for desperately trying to recapture their past or whatever, it's kind of bold/dumb to have a song about loss so closely resemble one of his best known songs about loss.

Looking past that, it's a pretty cool songs.



Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Ben_Jamin on January 10, 2020, 06:12:02 PM
Kinda eerie this song came out same time as Neil Pearts death announcement.

Anyways, its a neat song. Nothing that grabs me much. But that atmosphere is great.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: TAC on January 10, 2020, 06:49:28 PM
So I was arguing with Bosk a bit ago. I took the position that after touring and playing together, that their second album would be a huge improvement over their first, which I consider a big waste of music.

He said that why would you think you'd like the second one if you didn't like the first? Well, like I said, I just thought playing and getting more familiar with each other would help cultivate some creativity.

Bosk, I'm here to say that you are right.

I just listened to Desolate July. WTF?? I cannot think of a bigger piece of crap. What are we doing here? What is the point of this band?

And while I can literally only think of a handful of vocal performances better than JSS on Marching Out, his voice today has to be one of the most uninteresting voices I can think of.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: gzarruk on January 10, 2020, 07:33:58 PM
And while I can literally only think of a handful of vocal performances better than JSS on Marching Out, his voice today has to be one of the most uninteresting voices I can think of.

This is my biggest issue with his vocals, he seems to sing everything in the same range. All. The. Time.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Peter Mc on January 10, 2020, 07:48:55 PM
Yeah, this is starting to look like the pattern I have with all of Mike’s post DT projects. Buy album number one to support him, try and try to like it, hope number two is better, hear some songs off number two, realise it’s probably even worse, don’t buy album two! 

Based on these 3 songs, I will be amazed if Sons Of Apollo make it to album number three.  Two of the new songs have cool intros (that’s obviously a Derek speciality) but the song doesn’t live up to the epic intro and the solo/instrumental sections are just hideous to my ears, just completely pointless and lacking in any melody.  Oh well at least Transatlantic are back in the studio!
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Grappler on January 12, 2020, 05:46:48 AM
So I was arguing with Bosk a bit ago. I took the position that after touring and playing together, that their second album would be a huge improvement over their first, which I consider a big waste of music.

He said that why would you think you'd like the second one if you didn't like the first?

I don't get the idea that a second album would be any different than the first, nor did I expect.it.  This band has their style and sound.  It's not like they're going to magically start to sound like something else. 

If you enjoyed the first record, you'll enjoy the second.  If you're looking for something more, then you wont find it. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Zydar on January 12, 2020, 05:47:39 AM
You won't find it here. Look another way.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: JayOctavarium on January 12, 2020, 06:27:58 AM
You won't find it here. Look another way.

EVERYONE SURVIVED! ROOOOOAAAAAAR
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: TAC on January 12, 2020, 07:13:56 AM
So I was arguing with Bosk a bit ago. I took the position that after touring and playing together, that their second album would be a huge improvement over their first, which I consider a big waste of music.

He said that why would you think you'd like the second one if you didn't like the first?

I don't get the idea that a second album would be any different than the first, nor did I expect.it.  This band has their style and sound.  It's not like they're going to magically start to sound like something else. 

If you enjoyed the first record, you'll enjoy the second.  If you're looking for something more, then you wont find it.

I guess I thought that after touring and getting to really know each other musically, the 2nd album would be a bit more... I don't know..adventurous? interesting?

I didn't realize that was such a "far out" concept. :lol


They simply picked up where they left off and kept themselves writing in a very uninteresting box.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Madman Shepherd on January 12, 2020, 08:03:10 AM
So I was arguing with Bosk a bit ago. I took the position that after touring and playing together, that their second album would be a huge improvement over their first, which I consider a big waste of music.

He said that why would you think you'd like the second one if you didn't like the first?

I don't get the idea that a second album would be any different than the first, nor did I expect.it.  This band has their style and sound.  It's not like they're going to magically start to sound like something else. 

If you enjoyed the first record, you'll enjoy the second.  If you're looking for something more, then you wont find it.

I guess I thought that after touring and getting to really know each other musically, the 2nd album would be a bit more... I don't know..adventurous? interesting?

I didn't realize that was such a "far out" concept. :lol


They simply picked up where they left off and kept themselves writing in a very uninteresting box.

From what I've heard, I'm on track to like this album MORE than the last which I was very lukewarm to. I get what you're saying but from what I've heard it seems like they took the good elements from the first and took that a little further. Nothing spectacular.
And while I can literally only think of a handful of vocal performances better than JSS on Marching Out, his voice today has to be one of the most uninteresting voices I can think of.

This is my biggest issue with his vocals, he seems to sing everything in the same range. All. The. Time.

Which is too bad because he still has a good range (although not what it used to be). My theory is that Sherinian is limiting him.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Peter Mc on January 12, 2020, 11:54:04 AM
So I was arguing with Bosk a bit ago. I took the position that after touring and playing together, that their second album would be a huge improvement over their first, which I consider a big waste of music.

He said that why would you think you'd like the second one if you didn't like the first?

I don't get the idea that a second album would be any different than the first, nor did I expect.it.  This band has their style and sound.  It's not like they're going to magically start to sound like something else. 

If you enjoyed the first record, you'll enjoy the second.  If you're looking for something more, then you wont find it.

I guess I thought that after touring and getting to really know each other musically, the 2nd album would be a bit more... I don't know..adventurous? interesting?

I didn't realize that was such a "far out" concept. :lol


They simply picked up where they left off and kept themselves writing in a very uninteresting box.

I’m with you TAC, not that much of a stretch to think a band who have released an album and toured together may come up with a better record than a band just formed who’d never played or written together before.  Only 3 songs in admittedly but this sounds even less interesting than album number one.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: theshatteredfortress on January 12, 2020, 01:18:22 PM
Desolate July is fantastic.  It's kind of its own thing, so I hate to pigeonhole it.  But if I had to draw a comparison from the last album, I would say it is probably most similar to Labrynth.

I haven't listened to this one yet but if it's anywhere near the awesomeness of Labyrinth, it's gonna be............awesome ;D  The first album contains three great epic songs IMO : God Of The Sun, Labyrinth and Opus Maximus.  I saw the tracklisting for the second album and I saw a song called «New World Today» who is 16 minutes long and I can't wait to hear this one too!!!

Tx
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Stadler on January 12, 2020, 03:22:48 PM
And while I can literally only think of a handful of vocal performances better than JSS on Marching Out, his voice today has to be one of the most uninteresting voices I can think of.

This is my biggest issue with his vocals, he seems to sing everything in the same range. All. The. Time.

So I finally sat down and listened to the released tracks, and I can't be any LESS happy to relate my feelings:  instrumentally, this is unbelievable.   Not a radical departure from the first one but really good.  Bumblefoot excels, he stays away from that low-E chug that I'm commented on a couple times, and the mix is good.  I have to say: if there was an award for "best intros" on an album, this one would win.  Every song starts really cool and I'm jazzed up, ready to go...

... and the vocals kick in.  I get that he's good (generally), he's well-respected, etc. etc. but it's not working for me in this band.  It's just not.  It's all the same register, it's all the same sort of growly, mono-tonic vocals and I'm just not feeling it at all.  Just to pile on - because I can live with the poor lyrics otherwise - but his contributions on the lyrical front aren't all that special either.  I'm not entirely sure what some of them mean, but it's the sort of quasi-intellectual, "profound-but-don't-think-about-it-too-hard" philosophy that Dio and Jon Anderson do SOOOOOOOO much better.   
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on January 12, 2020, 04:18:28 PM
I definitely expected a better effort on the 2nd release for the reasons TAC stated. I haven't heard it so I dont know, but the reviews that it's mostly the same arent very good to me. Fall to Ascend maybe my favorite of their singles so I'm hopeful this is a good one, but I kind of want these guys to do something really amazing since they are capable. They so far, just haven't hit that mark.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ytserush on January 12, 2020, 07:48:30 PM
So I was arguing with Bosk a bit ago. I took the position that after touring and playing together, that their second album would be a huge improvement over their first, which I consider a big waste of music.

He said that why would you think you'd like the second one if you didn't like the first?

I don't get the idea that a second album would be any different than the first, nor did I expect.it.  This band has their style and sound.  It's not like they're going to magically start to sound like something else. 

If you enjoyed the first record, you'll enjoy the second.  If you're looking for something more, then you wont find it.

Suppose I should order this at some point soon.  I'd be hoping for some growth and maybe moving the needle a bit for a second album. Guess I'll find out soon enough.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ytserush on January 12, 2020, 07:49:53 PM
So I was arguing with Bosk a bit ago. I took the position that after touring and playing together, that their second album would be a huge improvement over their first, which I consider a big waste of music.

He said that why would you think you'd like the second one if you didn't like the first?

I don't get the idea that a second album would be any different than the first, nor did I expect.it.  This band has their style and sound.  It's not like they're going to magically start to sound like something else. 

If you enjoyed the first record, you'll enjoy the second.  If you're looking for something more, then you wont find it.

I guess I thought that after touring and getting to really know each other musically, the 2nd album would be a bit more... I don't know..adventurous? interesting?

I didn't realize that was such a "far out" concept. :lol


They simply picked up where they left off and kept themselves writing in a very uninteresting box.

I don't think it's that far out but I'm weird.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: TAC on January 12, 2020, 07:50:32 PM
Gee, thanks. :lol
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: gmillerdrake on January 14, 2020, 08:14:28 AM
I really WANT to like this band/this album....but for me, thus far these three releases are incredibly boring considering the talent involved. Very 'formulaic' and paint by numbers. I'll hand it to them that the live show I took my kiddos to was a blast....they gave a great live performance....but these releases in my ears are songs I've heard 100 times already.

I'm not expecting them to re-invent the wheel....but at the same time I do have a level of expectation given their talent that simply hasn't been met.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Grappler on January 14, 2020, 09:28:46 AM
I really WANT to like this band/this album....but for me, thus far these three releases are incredibly boring considering the talent involved. Very 'formulaic' and paint by numbers. I'll hand it to them that the live show I took my kiddos to was a blast....they gave a great live performance....but these releases in my ears are songs I've heard 100 times already.

I'm not expecting them to re-invent the wheel....but at the same time I do have a level of expectation given their talent that simply hasn't been met.

Not directed at you, but for the fans who feel like this...what are you expecting the band to write?  We've heard the first record and know exactly what their style is.  Are you expecting that they all of a sudden change gears and add some Dream Theater/stereotypical prog metal widdly widdly instrumental stuff and not sound like themselves anymore? 

They've been very open about the fact that Van Halen is more of an influence in their style and sound than prog.  They're a rock/metal band, with some melodic and proggy elements thrown in. 

I can listen to these songs and hear musicianship flying out of them. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Stadler on January 14, 2020, 11:23:18 AM
I really WANT to like this band/this album....but for me, thus far these three releases are incredibly boring considering the talent involved. Very 'formulaic' and paint by numbers. I'll hand it to them that the live show I took my kiddos to was a blast....they gave a great live performance....but these releases in my ears are songs I've heard 100 times already.

I'm not expecting them to re-invent the wheel....but at the same time I do have a level of expectation given their talent that simply hasn't been met.

Not directed at you, but for the fans who feel like this...what are you expecting the band to write?  We've heard the first record and know exactly what their style is.  Are you expecting that they all of a sudden change gears and add some Dream Theater/stereotypical prog metal widdly widdly instrumental stuff and not sound like themselves anymore? 

They've been very open about the fact that Van Halen is more of an influence in their style and sound than prog.  They're a rock/metal band, with some melodic and proggy elements thrown in. 

I can listen to these songs and hear musicianship flying out of them.

I just wish the "Van Halen" influence was more "Ed/Alex/Mike/Wolf" than "David/Sammy".   
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: TAC on January 14, 2020, 11:25:15 AM
I really WANT to like this band/this album....but for me, thus far these three releases are incredibly boring considering the talent involved. Very 'formulaic' and paint by numbers. I'll hand it to them that the live show I took my kiddos to was a blast....they gave a great live performance....but these releases in my ears are songs I've heard 100 times already.

I'm not expecting them to re-invent the wheel....but at the same time I do have a level of expectation given their talent that simply hasn't been met.

Not directed at you, but for the fans who feel like this...what are you expecting the band to write?  We've heard the first record and know exactly what their style is.  Are you expecting that they all of a sudden change gears and add some Dream Theater/stereotypical prog metal widdly widdly instrumental stuff and not sound like themselves anymore? 

They've been very open about the fact that Van Halen is more of an influence in their style and sound than prog.  They're a rock/metal band, with some melodic and proggy elements thrown in. 

I can listen to these songs and hear musicianship flying out of them.

I just wish the "Van Halen" influence was more "Ed/Alex/Mike/Wolf" than "David/Sammy".

Or Jan..
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: gmillerdrake on January 14, 2020, 11:44:36 AM
I really WANT to like this band/this album....but for me, thus far these three releases are incredibly boring considering the talent involved. Very 'formulaic' and paint by numbers. I'll hand it to them that the live show I took my kiddos to was a blast....they gave a great live performance....but these releases in my ears are songs I've heard 100 times already.

I'm not expecting them to re-invent the wheel....but at the same time I do have a level of expectation given their talent that simply hasn't been met.

Not directed at you, but for the fans who feel like this...what are you expecting the band to write?  We've heard the first record and know exactly what their style is.  Are you expecting that they all of a sudden change gears and add some Dream Theater/stereotypical prog metal widdly widdly instrumental stuff and not sound like themselves anymore? 

They've been very open about the fact that Van Halen is more of an influence in their style and sound than prog.  They're a rock/metal band, with some melodic and proggy elements thrown in. 

I can listen to these songs and hear musicianship flying out of them.

 It sure and it’s a fair ‘ask’. I guess for me, strictly looking at MPs contributing....it’s the thing that’s been discussed at length here and it’s his lack of creativity on drums. Same fills....same rhythms and so on. Compare that to Mangini who makes every effort to improve and provide ‘fresh’ sounds...fills....rhythms.

MP is an incredible drummer and showman....I enjoy the heck out of watching him play and I understand that there are a lot of people that are fine with his efforts of the past multiple albums he’s put out. I personally think he’s kind of resting on his reputation and career (which he’s earned) but It shows in his recent music.

Bumblefoot IMO is the only member in the band that really is oozing creativity. The others (to me) are just rinsing and repeating. I’m not asking for dramatic reinvention of music....but at least act like you tried. Just the way I ‘hear’ SOA.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Stadler on January 14, 2020, 11:56:34 AM
I know you're not talking to me, but "resting on laurels" isn't the worst thing in the world if that laurel is interesting, fresh, and says something new.  I have little if any beef with Mike in any of this. I just enjoy listening to him play, in the same way that listening to Malcolm Young playing open-position E and D chords are a joy.   

Vice versa, pushing the envelope is only good when the envelope is moving in a positive direction.  GG Allin "pushed the envelope"; Miley Cyrus "pushed the envelope" on her album with the guy from Flaming Lips.  I appreciate Mangini, and he doesn't suck in any way shape or form, but I don't get any real joy/thrill in listening to him, not like I do with Portnoy.

My beef is almost entirely with the vocals.  We're not 17 anymore.   
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: MoraWintersoul on January 14, 2020, 02:13:56 PM
"I expect them to push the envelope" =/= "I expect them to be proggier". I don't think that's what anyone is saying. If they're going for a simpler, rockier feel, then it has to ROCK, not just "be a rock song".
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Peter Mc on January 14, 2020, 02:48:14 PM
I get that they are supposed to be prog mixed with classic rock. The problem I have is that the classic rock element, being the riffs, melodies, choruses etc is utterly average imo. The prog widdly instrumental bits are even worse.

I will still give the whole album a listen as the first album had it’s moments and none of those were the singles. The outstanding highlight being God Of The Sun but I quite liked Divine Addiction and a couple of others as well.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: pcs90 on January 14, 2020, 04:02:07 PM
I know you're not talking to me, but "resting on laurels" isn't the worst thing in the world if that laurel is interesting, fresh, and says something new.  I have little if any beef with Mike in any of this. I just enjoy listening to him play, in the same way that listening to Malcolm Young playing open-position E and D chords are a joy.   

But Mike's playing is certainly not fresh and there is nothing new being produced. Genuine question, where are you hearing this new interesting playing of his that has never been done on every one of his previous albums? Because if there's something I'm missing I absolutely want to hear it. There is nothing wrong with anyone enjoying his playing, or watching him perform live. I just cannot for the life of me find this new playing that comes up here from time to time. It is all incredibly predictable from my perspective.

Derek is the same way. Nearly every solo on the new album is just a huge pile of notes vomited up. They sound like absolutely no thought whatsoever was put into them. I just don't see the point.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: gzarruk on January 14, 2020, 04:25:57 PM
I know you're not talking to me, but "resting on laurels" isn't the worst thing in the world if that laurel is interesting, fresh, and says something new.  I have little if any beef with Mike in any of this. I just enjoy listening to him play, in the same way that listening to Malcolm Young playing open-position E and D chords are a joy.   

But Mike's playing is certainly not fresh and there is nothing new being produced. Genuine question, where are you hearing this new interesting playing of his that has never been done on every one of his previous albums? Because if there's something I'm missing I absolutely want to hear it. There is nothing wrong with anyone enjoying his playing, or watching him perform live. I just cannot for the life of me find this new playing that comes up here from time to time. It is all incredibly predictable from my perspective.

Derek is the same way. Nearly every solo on the new album is just a huge pile of notes vomited up. They sound like absolutely no thought whatsoever was put into them. I just don't see the point.

Credit where credit is due, there's one drum groove on the first few minutes of NMB's Alive Again that really surprised me in a very good way (that was 2015, tho). Other than that, I completely agree that Mike's drumming has been the same stuff over and over again. And not just his drumming, but his arranging style has become way too obvious now. Pretty much every album he's heavily involved with has a lot of "let's copy-paste this section here, there, and over here just o make it prog... oh, and let's repeat this riff x amount of times just because we can."
He also loves to have the backing vocals go "ahhhhh" on a lot of songs. I've been listening to the whole DT catalog and it's super annoying on the 00's albums once you realize it's there, and it's the same case with most of his other bands (see Labyrinth as an example).

About Derek, it's sad that this is the same guy that came up with THAT solo on Trial of Tears, which I consider one of my favorite DT keyboard moments ever (might need to make a top 10 list or something).
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: gzarruk on January 14, 2020, 05:09:46 PM
Also this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IGFAowImgPk&fbclid=IwAR3DRe3Yk0XdoKJlg-BH6LtP21lcisEmcEW0-IrKdB1K-DZJrxA7loZzDEs
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: pcs90 on January 14, 2020, 10:12:46 PM
About Derek, it's sad that this is the same guy that came up with THAT solo on Trial of Tears, which I consider one of my favorite DT keyboard moments ever (might need to make a top 10 list or something).

Yes, that solo is great. It's obvious there was thought put into it. Some of the stuff on his solo albums is really awesome too.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Fritzinger on January 14, 2020, 11:46:55 PM
Derek is the same way. Nearly every solo on the new album is just a huge pile of notes vomited up. They sound like absolutely no thought whatsoever was put into them. I just don't see the point.

Have you heard the Ayreon album 01011001? There's a solo by Derek on The Fifth Extinction. It's his typical wanky synth solo.
And then there is a solo on Waking Dreams by Tomas Bodin. What a huge difference. You can hear that he put some thought into the sound and the lines he played.

That difference represents a little the problem I have with SoA. I don't mind it being "only" hard rock with some prog influences. But their music is generic and not well thought through. And that is audible when hearing some music that is well thought through and has been given time to mature (like the new IQ). The guys should put more effort and time into this project.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Evermind on January 15, 2020, 01:16:06 AM
That's an excellent point. Now that I think of it, there are three things about 01011001 I really dislike:

Connect the Dots
Web of Lies
Derek's solo on The Fifth Extinction
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Northern Lion on January 15, 2020, 07:47:12 AM
I'm with a lot of you here.  The vocals do not grab me at all.  He sings the same way on every song.  I had high hopes when I heard Goodbye Divinity.  I thought it was a pretty good song.  However, their last two singles are same type of stuff that was on their first album.

I have really wanted to follow MP's post DT career, but so far I haven't liked anything he's been involved in.  Maybe the next band?  Who knows.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Stadler on January 15, 2020, 08:27:37 AM
I know you're not talking to me, but "resting on laurels" isn't the worst thing in the world if that laurel is interesting, fresh, and says something new.  I have little if any beef with Mike in any of this. I just enjoy listening to him play, in the same way that listening to Malcolm Young playing open-position E and D chords are a joy.   

But Mike's playing is certainly not fresh and there is nothing new being produced. Genuine question, where are you hearing this new interesting playing of his that has never been done on every one of his previous albums? Because if there's something I'm missing I absolutely want to hear it. There is nothing wrong with anyone enjoying his playing, or watching him perform live. I just cannot for the life of me find this new playing that comes up here from time to time. It is all incredibly predictable from my perspective.

I didn't say "never been done on every one of his previous albums" or anything like it.  That's why the Malcolm reference.  If at this point you can't sing along to an AC/DC record first time through, you've been living under a rock for the past 30 years.   I like Mike's style.  I don't think it's stale at this point, especially when compared to some of the stuff that passes as "fresh and new" from other bands.  Maybe "fresh" is the wrong word, but I listened to those songs over the weekend in my garage fixing my car, and it was, to me, energetic and fun.  I liked it.  I didn't need to hear synchopated four-limb autonomy with a blast beat interspersed every four bars.  Nicko McBrain is in the same category for me. Nothing Nicko is doing at this point is ground breaking, but mofo, what he IS doing, just behind the lines of the cutting edge, is inspiring. 

And I will offer that maybe it's all relative; for me the stale, uninspired and soggy of SOA is the growled "your ecstacy is my insanity, you're the reliever to my fever, YEAH!" banality of the vocals/lyrics.   
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bosk1 on January 15, 2020, 08:31:20 AM
Newsflash:  It isn't a drummer's job to come up with something "fresh and new" for every song.  That's just not what a drummer, by nature, is called to do, and it's pretty ridiculous to expect that.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Grappler on January 15, 2020, 08:49:30 AM
Newsflash:  It isn't a drummer's job to come up with something "fresh and new" for every song.  That's just not what a drummer, by nature, is called to do, and it's pretty ridiculous to expect that.

I had a response that was very similar to that - the drummer's job is to just do what the song calls for.  End of story.  SOA's songs don't call for big, flashy drumming - the songs and riffs are big, groovy things.  Dream Theater's songs are more intricate, so obviously, the drumming reflects that. 

Comparing Mangini in DT to Portnoy in SOA doesn't make sense to me, since the bands are completely different.  SOA isn't a prog metal band at all, though they feature prog musicians and have elements of that style. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: emtee on January 15, 2020, 10:01:01 AM
MP doesn't have space on his walls for
any more awards.

Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: gmillerdrake on January 15, 2020, 10:11:52 AM
Newsflash:  It isn't a drummer's job to come up with something "fresh and new" for every song.  That's just not what a drummer, by nature, is called to do, and it's pretty ridiculous to expect that.

That’s fine. Sure, it’s not their job. But when you have two guys telling anyone with a microphone, camera or blog that they’re the ‘New Kong’s of PROG’  you should be able to back that up. They didn’t and haven’t.

I’m not posting to argue about MP as a drummer and have stated many times I enjoy watching him play. Dude is entertaining as heck to watch play. He just isn’t very creative these days and the majority of the music he puts out nowadays is bland as heck. Thankfully he has Neal Morse that is able to hone and craft MPs contributions and still make cool music with his old bag of tricks.

The other bands.....not so much.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bosk1 on January 15, 2020, 10:35:42 AM
OK, but whether Portnoy has done something that fans, compared to his HUGE body of work, find "new" and "creative" has zero to do with whether or not SOA are the "New Kong’s of PROG," (whatever that means).  Those two things are not related.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: TAC on January 15, 2020, 11:37:52 AM
they’re the ‘New Kong’s of PROG’ 



(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/08/a0/49/08a049661a8eb1fc1c02f6f68c5fa0b2.png)
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bosk1 on January 15, 2020, 11:38:33 AM
I don't think BC Rich guitars are very prog.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: TAC on January 15, 2020, 11:41:39 AM
You tell him that!
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Architeuthis on January 15, 2020, 11:58:00 AM
 :rollin
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Podaar on January 15, 2020, 11:59:04 AM
I don't think BC Rick guitars are very prog.

BC Rick? (https://i.ytimg.com/vi/oHg5SJYRHA0/hqdefault.jpg)
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bosk1 on January 15, 2020, 12:01:35 PM
I don't think BC Rick guitars are very prog.

BC Rick? (https://i.ytimg.com/vi/oHg5SJYRHA0/hqdefault.jpg)

I figured I would King a little bit, since we were discussing Kong.  :dunno: :lol
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: nikatapi on January 16, 2020, 06:59:43 AM
So i did an interview with Derek (will post it once it's published).
He seems very excited with the new album, he also told me that he has a solo album that's going to come out later this year as well.
Still seems to want to compare with DT the way i see it, even though he said that he considers the band a hard rock band above all.

I did ask him about Metropolis Pt2 and if he remembers anything about writing the demo that has many of the ideas that made it into the album, and he told me that the only thing he remembers is not getting any writing credits when the album came out  :lol
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: gzarruk on January 16, 2020, 08:38:35 AM
I did ask him about Metropolis Pt2 and if he remembers anything about writing the demo that has many of the ideas that made it into the album, and he told me that the only thing he remembers is not getting any writing credits when the album came out  :lol

:lol but, to be fair, they didn't use the most Derek-ish sounding parts and riffs. There's one specific part on the Met. 2 demo that didn't make it to SFAM and it was then used by Derek on the Planet X album Moonbabies, so it's not like they used all his input and then decided not to credit the guy at all.

On the other hand, they re-wrote ACOS with Derek, but he still played a ton of parts that were written with/by Kevin Moore and I don't think Kev got any writing credits on that one either.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bosk1 on January 16, 2020, 09:44:34 AM
Going back to the band's overall sound, I like the niche they are filling, and I think they do a great job of blending that hard rock swagger of a Van Halen, Aerosmith, or Deep Purple with some of the layering and complexity of prog.  They aren't full-on prog, and that's okay.  It's a nice blend, and the songs are pretty good.  For those that don't like it, that's cool.  But similar to a point I have made a few times in movie and tv threads, I think it's kind of silly to wish they were something else and complain about what we didn't get rather than focusing on what we did get in their albums.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Stadler on January 16, 2020, 09:58:30 AM
Going back to the band's overall sound, I like the niche they are filling, and I think they do a great job of blending that hard rock swagger of a Van Halen, Aerosmith, or Deep Purple with some of the layering and complexity of prog.  They aren't full-on prog, and that's okay.  It's a nice blend, and the songs are pretty good.  For those that don't like it, that's cool.  But similar to a point I have made a few times in movie and tv threads, I think it's kind of silly to wish they were something else and complain about what we didn't get rather than focusing on what we did get in their albums.

I think the Deep Purple associations are spot on, at least musically.  The problem for me there is that Black Country Communion - with Derek - sort of mined that territory already, and with Glenn Hughes singing instead of Jeff, it's been mined, IMO, better. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on January 16, 2020, 10:05:47 AM
I'm not even sure I notice the VH influences besides them covering a song or two.

I don't mind their niche either.  I'm more of a metal guy than prog, and generally like a little prog mixed with all my metal so in theory, this is right up my ally.  The songs just aren't terribly strong IMO, that's all.  Some other things like Jeff's samey vocals are minor issues to me, but the songs just mostly don't stick to my ears.

At this point, even if I don't like the album (I expect to find it decent, but not mindblowing) I still plan on seeing them because I know it will be a fun show, but if there's nothing on the new album that sticks to my ears, I'm not sure what the future will be here for them. 

I think back about last years Winery Dogs show and I feel that band has so much more potential than SOA because they right catchy songs to a bigger audience (rock vs. prog metal).  MP/BS would be better off investing their time there IMO.  That venue was PACKED and 3 times the size of what SOA are playing in NYC this tour.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bosk1 on January 16, 2020, 10:21:22 AM
I'm just the opposite.  I find TWD to be incredibly boring and unimaginative, and do not plan on following them anymore after 2 albums that did nothing for me. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on January 16, 2020, 10:27:31 AM
Yea, I know lots here don't like it.  It's not prog or metal, but it seems to be his most popular from my experience of seeing his bands live.  I haven't seen NMB but they typically play the same 500 capacity venue that SOA are playing.  But then again, I have no idea how TWD do in other markets.  SOA seemed to do better in Europe as most of these types of bands do.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: gmillerdrake on January 16, 2020, 10:37:22 AM
Going back to the band's overall sound, I like the niche they are filling, and I think they do a great job of blending that hard rock swagger of a Van Halen, Aerosmith, or Deep Purple with some of the layering and complexity of prog.  They aren't full-on prog, and that's okay.  It's a nice blend, and the songs are pretty good.  For those that don't like it, that's cool.  But similar to a point I have made a few times in movie and tv threads, I think it's kind of silly to wish they were something else and complain about what we didn't get rather than focusing on what we did get in their albums.

Had MP and DS not came out guns a blazing and taking 'shots' at DT prior to the release of the first album....I'd be less judgmental. Proclaiming yourselves the new Kings of Prog before anyone's heard the album or before you're band has even been together for over a year was incredible arrogant. I'm sure it was meant to get attention....which it did.....but it was also a dick move. So, I listen to hear if the new Kings of Prog bring anything that makes them worthy of that title.....which they haven't.

They've found a niche as you say.....the live show is fun and exciting and worth the watch.....but the music itself is pretty bland, formulaic and predictable. Doesn't mean it's not easy to listen to or not executed well....it is, these guys are incredible musicians.....just means for me I'll use the time I have to listen to music to listen to something else.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bosk1 on January 16, 2020, 10:46:33 AM
Had MP and DS not came out guns a blazing and taking 'shots' at DT prior to the release of the first album....I'd be less judgmental. Proclaiming yourselves the new Kings of Prog before anyone's heard the album or before you're band has even been together for over a year was incredible arrogant. I'm sure it was meant to get attention....which it did.....but it was also a dick move. So, I listen to hear if the new Kings of Prog bring anything that makes them worthy of that title.....which they haven't.

I don't disagree with you on any of that.  But that still has zero to do with Mike's playing, which is what you originally criticized.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on January 16, 2020, 11:03:09 AM
I get Gary's point about their arrogance when this band started.  It turned a lot of people off.  However, I haven't seen that arrogance in awhile.  I'm willing to bury it personally.  I think they realized they messed up by turning people off before things even started and have changed course.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: gmillerdrake on January 16, 2020, 11:48:26 AM
Had MP and DS not came out guns a blazing and taking 'shots' at DT prior to the release of the first album....I'd be less judgmental. Proclaiming yourselves the new Kings of Prog before anyone's heard the album or before you're band has even been together for over a year was incredible arrogant. I'm sure it was meant to get attention....which it did.....but it was also a dick move. So, I listen to hear if the new Kings of Prog bring anything that makes them worthy of that title.....which they haven't.

I don't disagree with you on any of that.  But that still has zero to do with Mike's playing, which is what you originally criticized.

My ‘thing’ with MPs playing is here you have this world class, virtuoso drum player in MP yet he hasn’t given us anything ‘new’ in MANY albums. Even has last three albums with DT were rinse and repeat. I’ve used the word ‘lazy’ to describe it because that’s what it seems like to me.

There are many recycled fills and beats, it’s very noticeable.  He has the right and has earned the luxury of not practicing or trying to improve.....he’s freaking Mike Portnoy....and What he’s doing with SOA and in some way TNMB is working I guess......I just don’t find his efforts all that inspiring anymore.

Well executed? Yes. Does it all fit? Sure. Is it a master class in drumming? Not so much. As I’ve said in the movie thread a lot it’s all about expectations. I ‘expect’ top tier effort from MP due to his pedigree. Sadly, I haven’t detected that effort in quite some time.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: gmillerdrake on January 16, 2020, 11:49:22 AM
I get Gary's point about their arrogance when this band started.  It turned a lot of people off.  However, I haven't seen that arrogance in awhile.  I'm willing to bury it personally.  I think they realized they messed up by turning people off before things even started and have changed course.

I agree. I just hold a grudge longer.....
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bosk1 on January 16, 2020, 12:01:01 PM
Had MP and DS not came out guns a blazing and taking 'shots' at DT prior to the release of the first album....I'd be less judgmental. Proclaiming yourselves the new Kings of Prog before anyone's heard the album or before you're band has even been together for over a year was incredible arrogant. I'm sure it was meant to get attention....which it did.....but it was also a dick move. So, I listen to hear if the new Kings of Prog bring anything that makes them worthy of that title.....which they haven't.

I don't disagree with you on any of that.  But that still has zero to do with Mike's playing, which is what you originally criticized.

My ‘thing’ with MPs playing is here you have this world class, virtuoso drum player in MP yet he hasn’t given us anything ‘new’ in MANY albums. Even has last three albums with DT were rinse and repeat. I’ve used the word ‘lazy’ to describe it because that’s what it seems like to me.

There are many recycled fills and beats, it’s very noticeable.  He has the right and has earned the luxury of not practicing or trying to improve.....he’s freaking Mike Portnoy....and What he’s doing with SOA and in some way TNMB is working I guess......I just don’t find his efforts all that inspiring anymore.

Well executed? Yes. Does it all fit? Sure. Is it a master class in drumming? Not so much. As I’ve said in the movie thread a lot it’s all about expectations. I ‘expect’ top tier effort from MP due to his pedigree. Sadly, I haven’t detected that effort in quite some time.

And that's fine.  But, again, your "expectation" is just odd.  That isn't how music works, and especially drumming.  It's like saying, "Tom Brady is a 'world class,' elite quarterback.  Therefore, I expect him to be constantly working at throwing the ball farther.  In my personal opinion, if he does not throw farther, I just can't find him interesting.  He always throws 5-yard and 10-yard routes.  It's SO predictable.  I need to see him improve to where the ball travels 60 yards in the air after leaving his hand, or I'm done with him."
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Peace and Love on January 16, 2020, 12:22:54 PM
Had MP and DS not came out guns a blazing and taking 'shots' at DT prior to the release of the first album....I'd be less judgmental. Proclaiming yourselves the new Kings of Prog before anyone's heard the album or before you're band has even been together for over a year was incredible arrogant. I'm sure it was meant to get attention....which it did.....but it was also a dick move. So, I listen to hear if the new Kings of Prog bring anything that makes them worthy of that title.....which they haven't.

I don't disagree with you on any of that.  But that still has zero to do with Mike's playing, which is what you originally criticized.

My ‘thing’ with MPs playing is here you have this world class, virtuoso drum player in MP yet he hasn’t given us anything ‘new’ in MANY albums. Even has last three albums with DT were rinse and repeat. I’ve used the word ‘lazy’ to describe it because that’s what it seems like to me.

There are many recycled fills and beats, it’s very noticeable.  He has the right and has earned the luxury of not practicing or trying to improve.....he’s freaking Mike Portnoy....and What he’s doing with SOA and in some way TNMB is working I guess......I just don’t find his efforts all that inspiring anymore.

Well executed? Yes. Does it all fit? Sure. Is it a master class in drumming? Not so much. As I’ve said in the movie thread a lot it’s all about expectations. I ‘expect’ top tier effort from MP due to his pedigree. Sadly, I haven’t detected that effort in quite some time.

And that's fine.  But, again, your "expectation" is just odd.  That isn't how music works, and especially drumming.  It's like saying, "Tom Brady is a 'world class,' elite quarterback.  Therefore, I expect him to be constantly working at throwing the ball farther.  In my personal opinion, if he does not throw farther, I just can't find him interesting.  He always throws 5-yard and 10-yard routes.  It's SO predictable.  I need to see him improve to where the ball travels 60 yards in the air after leaving his hand, or I'm done with him."

That's because there is a difference between sport and art, particularly art in a genre labelled "progressive", where the expectation (at least in some people's minds) is constant evolution and innovation.

That said, I agree that people have unrealistic expectations for MP's drumming. There are very very few drummers out there with a recorded discography as large as his, that are still innovating. Yes, there are some - but very few. I think its quite unfair to pick on MP for this, particularly when he has innovated quite a lot in the past.

I would be willing to bet a small sum of money that those who claim MM is constantly evolving and creating new patterns, etc. are not nearly as familiar with his recorded discography as they are with MP's. If you've obsessed over MM's work and have heard all his albums over the past 30 years, and still believe that - sure - but I highly doubt it.

And I say all that as a massive fan of both MP and MM.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Stadler on January 16, 2020, 12:39:41 PM
But the operative word is "in some people's minds".  All that matters is the intent of the artist.  Everything else is noise.   The important thing is, "what is Mike going for, and is he achieving it".  Only he can say that, frankly.

I still find Mike's drumming far more engaging than Mike Mangini's even if Mangini's is more "complicated", or, if you will, "progressive".
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: gmillerdrake on January 16, 2020, 01:20:58 PM
And that's fine.  But, again, your "expectation" is just odd.  That isn't how music works, and especially drumming.  It's like saying, "Tom Brady is a 'world class,' elite quarterback.  Therefore, I expect him to be constantly working at throwing the ball farther.  In my personal opinion, if he does not throw farther, I just can't find him interesting.  He always throws 5-yard and 10-yard routes.  It's SO predictable.  I need to see him improve to where the ball travels 60 yards in the air after leaving his hand, or I'm done with him."

On the other hand I look at it like a Pitcher who can throw 104 mph and strike near everyone out on near every at bat.....but....although he's still perfectly capable of throwing 104 mph and striking everyone out.....he now throws nothing but change ups and gets some runs scored on him and maybe a lot of contact outs.

I just see it as MP got to a point and said "that's good enough" and kind of went on auto pilot. Which is perfectly fine. He's earned it....logged the time and still produces nice music. I'm just left to wonder about 'what could have been' had he stayed engaged ala a Mike Mangini who is always looking for ways to improve.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Dublagent66 on January 16, 2020, 01:25:23 PM
Going to the LA show a week from this Saturday.  I'm hoping MP does a tribute the Neil Peart.  That would be so cool!  :2metal:
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Architeuthis on January 16, 2020, 02:51:17 PM
Going to the LA show a week from this Saturday.  I'm hoping MP does a tribute the Neil Peart.  That would be so cool!  :2metal:
I would think that's a given!  I wouldn't be surprised if the whole band collectively does a tribute to him.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Peter Mc on January 16, 2020, 06:46:09 PM
Just got through my first listen and, oh dear, this is really, really poor in my opinion.  Wasn’t a huge fan of Goodbye Divinity, it was on ok, fairly enjoyable song but nothing more. Sad thing is that it’s the best song on this album by a huge margin.  Only my first listen granted but this is a big step down even from Psychotic Symphony imo. I think I may even prefer the Adrenaline Mob album to this.  Will be beyond shocked if they make it to album number 3 at least with this lineup.

When I heard Goodbye Divinity again, I was thinking ok, it’s not bad, probably enjoyed it more than I had previously. The second song wasn’t terrible either, it was ok and my hopes began to rise. I hated pretty much everything I heard after that. Just dull uninspired riff after dull uninspired riff, zero catchy melodies in the vocals or memorable choruses.  I didn’t hate the first album like some. It was a solid 6-7 out of 10 and I thought they had some potential. That is why this is so disappointing and couldn’t give it more than 3-4 out of 10.

Just my subjective opinion obviously and some others seem to like it which is great, I’m glad others get some enjoyment out of it even if I don’t.  Looks like I will just have to get my MP fix from Transatlantic and Neal Morse for the time being and hope for a Liquid Tension Experiment reunion at some point.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Evermind on January 16, 2020, 09:11:12 PM
I think I'll actually spin this on my commute back from work today. If I like the album, I'll consider seeing them live in March, we'll see.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Kilgore Trout on January 17, 2020, 12:53:53 AM
This is not a step up from the first album, that's for sure. :facepalm:
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Polarbear on January 17, 2020, 01:15:34 AM
You'll now what you are getting into with this album, if you have listened to the first one...

Although IMO it's better than their debut. Even the 15-minute epic didn't bore me to tears. Also I really like Desolate July!
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: IDontNotDoThings on January 17, 2020, 01:59:07 AM
Oh my god, I actually forgot that this came out today :lolpalm:

I'll give it a listen.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: MoraWintersoul on January 17, 2020, 02:46:06 AM
Oh my god, I actually forgot that this came out today :lolpalm:

I'll give it a listen.
Sorry to barge in off topic, but this is the first time anyone on DTF has quoted me  :biggrin:

To go back on topic, I guess I'll have to listen to this as well!
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: devieira73 on January 17, 2020, 04:07:16 AM
I like this one even more than the first. I agree overall with the RodrigoAltaf and Bosk reviews and I would add that, although the album has less variety compared to the first, I think it’s better composed and arranged. It has a lot more layers of keyboards and guitars and the style reminds me a lot more the heavier side from Derek’s solo albums. MP is innovating? No, but I his performance is really vibrant and energectic on this one IMO. And I absolutely loved King of Delusion and New World Today.  :hefdaddy
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Kyo on January 17, 2020, 04:09:53 AM
So after the unison runs taken straight from The Sons of Anu in Fall to Ascend there's also a section taken from Derek's State of Delirium in the middle of Desolate July. As a fan of the originals I find it a bit weird to hear these ideas re-used in different songs.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: IDontNotDoThings on January 17, 2020, 04:16:18 AM
After listening to the album, my first impressions were... meh.

Like the first album, it had plenty of great moments but plenty of awful ones too. I think the highs from MMXX (Goodbye Divinity, King Of Delusion, New World Today) aren't quite as high as the ones from PS (God Of The Sun, Coming Home, Signs Of The Time, Labyrinth, Divine Addiction), but the lows from MMXX (Asphyxiation, Resurrection Day) aren't quite as low as the ones from PS either (Alive, Lost In Oblivion). They're both such inconsistent albums, & it bothers me that I can really get into some songs, but have to hesitate to call them a "good albums". I figured that the fluff from PS was a result of the rushed production schedule, but it doesn't seem to have improved here, which I find disappointing.

So yeah, I can't really get into this as much as I'd hoped. Oh well :dunno:
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Art on January 17, 2020, 04:50:00 AM
After listening to the album, the only song i actually liked is Desolate July. Go figure...

This is really not for me.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: devieira73 on January 17, 2020, 04:57:07 AM
So after the unison runs taken straight from The Sons of Anu in Fall to Ascend there's also a section taken from Derek's State of Delirium in the middle of Desolate July. As a fan of the originals I find it a bit weird to hear these ideas re-used in different songs.
If I understood right, MP mentioned they used some ideas from Derek’s solo albums in that interview with RodrigoAltaf. Sure it’s controversial, but personally I don’t have problem with it. I think this can be an interesting way to make more known good musical ideas that otherwise would be forgotten in some more “obscure” solo records (Vinnie Moore did the same when he recorded his first UFO album).
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Evermind on January 17, 2020, 06:29:50 AM
I think I'll actually spin this on my commute back from work today. If I like the album, I'll consider seeing them live in March, we'll see.

Yeah, that would be a big nope for me. Considered turning it off twice during the last song but got through. Not for me. Seems like I wasn't missing anything when I decided not to listen to the first album.

After listening to the album, the only song i actually liked is Desolate July. Go figure...

This is really not for me.

Pretty much my thoughts. Also whoever said earlier in the thread that the songs have cool intros and that's it (Stadler?) was right.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Stadler on January 17, 2020, 07:13:29 AM
And that's fine.  But, again, your "expectation" is just odd.  That isn't how music works, and especially drumming.  It's like saying, "Tom Brady is a 'world class,' elite quarterback.  Therefore, I expect him to be constantly working at throwing the ball farther.  In my personal opinion, if he does not throw farther, I just can't find him interesting.  He always throws 5-yard and 10-yard routes.  It's SO predictable.  I need to see him improve to where the ball travels 60 yards in the air after leaving his hand, or I'm done with him."

On the other hand I look at it like a Pitcher who can throw 104 mph and strike near everyone out on near every at bat.....but....although he's still perfectly capable of throwing 104 mph and striking everyone out.....he now throws nothing but change ups and gets some runs scored on him and maybe a lot of contact outs.

I just see it as MP got to a point and said "that's good enough" and kind of went on auto pilot. Which is perfectly fine. He's earned it....logged the time and still produces nice music. I'm just left to wonder about 'what could have been' had he stayed engaged ala a Mike Mangini who is always looking for ways to improve.

I'm sorry to keep picking at this, but I can't help it.  I don't want to be mean or unfair to Mangini (or you), because he's excellent, there's no doubt.   But I'll listen to "boring stale complacent" Portnoy EVERY SINGLE TIME over the human Tommy Gun Mangini.  Doing crazy athletic gymnastics doesn't necessarily make good MUSIC, and isn't that the point?  This is an awkward conversation because the SOA record is problematic for me, but it's because of Jeff Soto, not Mike Portnoy.   (And this of course concedes the argument that Mangini IS furthering the instrument, but honestly, other than physical dexterity, I don't personally see a lot of that on the last couple DT records). 

Is David Gilmour legendary because every solo, every note is something new and unheard, or because every solo, every note is just right for the song, the moment, the context?   I say this respectfully, but I just think it's a shade unfair to expect a 52 year-old drummer with 35 years in the business to not be able to shift his focus as appropriate to his circumstances. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Ben_Jamin on January 17, 2020, 08:49:55 AM
Well...

MP got his metal band
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Ben_Jamin on January 17, 2020, 08:57:49 AM
And that's fine.  But, again, your "expectation" is just odd.  That isn't how music works, and especially drumming.  It's like saying, "Tom Brady is a 'world class,' elite quarterback.  Therefore, I expect him to be constantly working at throwing the ball farther.  In my personal opinion, if he does not throw farther, I just can't find him interesting.  He always throws 5-yard and 10-yard routes.  It's SO predictable.  I need to see him improve to where the ball travels 60 yards in the air after leaving his hand, or I'm done with him."

On the other hand I look at it like a Pitcher who can throw 104 mph and strike near everyone out on near every at bat.....but....although he's still perfectly capable of throwing 104 mph and striking everyone out.....he now throws nothing but change ups and gets some runs scored on him and maybe a lot of contact outs.

I just see it as MP got to a point and said "that's good enough" and kind of went on auto pilot. Which is perfectly fine. He's earned it....logged the time and still produces nice music. I'm just left to wonder about 'what could have been' had he stayed engaged ala a Mike Mangini who is always looking for ways to improve.

I'm sorry to keep picking at this, but I can't help it.  I don't want to be mean or unfair to Mangini (or you), because he's excellent, there's no doubt.   But I'll listen to "boring stale complacent" Portnoy EVERY SINGLE TIME over the human Tommy Gun Mangini.  Doing crazy athletic gymnastics doesn't necessarily make good MUSIC, and isn't that the point?  This is an awkward conversation because the SOA record is problematic for me, but it's because of Jeff Soto, not Mike Portnoy.   (And this of course concedes the argument that Mangini IS furthering the instrument, but honestly, other than physical dexterity, I don't personally see a lot of that on the last couple DT records). 

Is David Gilmour legendary because every solo, every note is something new and unheard, or because every solo, every note is just right for the song, the moment, the context?   I say this respectfully, but I just think it's a shade unfair to expect a 52 year-old drummer with 35 years in the business to not be able to shift his focus as appropriate to his circumstances.

Ironic because you said this "listen to "boring stale complacent". It just doesn't make sense.

Especially when MM is finally able to craft his drumming. While MP keeps his same style.

Also....This sounds like ToT, which he wanted a different singer for. Complaining about JLB, yet JSS is even worse
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: The Walrus on January 17, 2020, 09:01:35 AM
This album is only slightly better than the debut to me and that really isn't saying much. The 16 minute number is better than Opus Maximus in some ways, and yet... it really feels as long as that number looks. And crikey Jeff does not sound good. The hooks, overall, are stronger, though (imo). But once again it feels like another get-in, get-out record, a bit slapdash and unpolished.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Ben_Jamin on January 17, 2020, 09:05:35 AM
This album is only slightly better than the debut to me and that really isn't saying much. The 16 minute number is better than Opus Maximus in some ways, and yet... it really feels as long as that number looks. And crikey Jeff does not sound good. The hooks, overall, are stronger, though (imo). But once again it feels like another get-in, get-out record, a bit slapdash and unpolished.

It basically showcases Bumble. Everyone else ia by the numbers. Honestly, I thought I was listening to ITPOE pt.1 the drums sound exactly the same.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on January 17, 2020, 09:07:50 AM
Well, one listen in and its not as bad as some are saying, but its not great.  Not sure how it compares to the first, feels a bit heavier.  The keyboard solos are actually pretty cool on this, I'm surprised to admit.  The songs just aren't very catchy, nothing overall felt very memorable after one listen.  My immediate reaction is a 7/10 which I may have given the debut.  I'll be listening more and have better feelings later.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: gmillerdrake on January 17, 2020, 09:21:08 AM
Well, one listen in and its not as bad as some are saying, but its not great.  Not sure how it compares to the first, feels a bit heavier.  The keyboard solos are actually pretty cool on this, I'm surprised to admit.  The songs just aren't very catchy, nothing overall felt very memorable after one listen.  My immediate reaction is a 7/10 which I may have given the debut.  I'll be listening more and have better feelings later.

Just finished first listen and this is my sentiment. It's not bad by any means.....these guys can play their instruments for sure. But, it's the same feeling for me I had with the first album....while the musicianship is there I have to agree with the bolded above. It's hard to explain. And, unfortunately....JSS isn't really memorable at all on this. Having seen him sing live I know he gives a good show and entertains but there's not a lot on this album from him to get excited about.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bosk1 on January 17, 2020, 09:33:35 AM
Well, one listen in and its not as bad as some are saying, but its not great.  Not sure how it compares to the first, feels a bit heavier.  The keyboard solos are actually pretty cool on this, I'm surprised to admit.  The songs just aren't very catchy, nothing overall felt very memorable after one listen.  My immediate reaction is a 7/10 which I may have given the debut.  I'll be listening more and have better feelings later.

Just finished first listen and this is my sentiment. It's not bad by any means.....these guys can play their instruments for sure. But, it's the same feeling for me I had with the first album....while the musicianship is there I have to agree with the bolded above. It's hard to explain.
My immediate reaction is a 7/10 which I may have given the debut. 

I'd probably rate it slightly higher, but am basically right there with both of you.  As I said in my review, this new album brings nothing new to the table that the first one didn't do.  If you liked the first one, you'll probably like this.  If you didn't, you won't.  This literally could have come from the same writing sessions.  And I have no problem with that.  But at the same time, the lack of any evolution just as a writing/performing band does maybe give it a bit of a "been there, done that" feel.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Stadler on January 17, 2020, 10:26:22 AM
And that's fine.  But, again, your "expectation" is just odd.  That isn't how music works, and especially drumming.  It's like saying, "Tom Brady is a 'world class,' elite quarterback.  Therefore, I expect him to be constantly working at throwing the ball farther.  In my personal opinion, if he does not throw farther, I just can't find him interesting.  He always throws 5-yard and 10-yard routes.  It's SO predictable.  I need to see him improve to where the ball travels 60 yards in the air after leaving his hand, or I'm done with him."

On the other hand I look at it like a Pitcher who can throw 104 mph and strike near everyone out on near every at bat.....but....although he's still perfectly capable of throwing 104 mph and striking everyone out.....he now throws nothing but change ups and gets some runs scored on him and maybe a lot of contact outs.

I just see it as MP got to a point and said "that's good enough" and kind of went on auto pilot. Which is perfectly fine. He's earned it....logged the time and still produces nice music. I'm just left to wonder about 'what could have been' had he stayed engaged ala a Mike Mangini who is always looking for ways to improve.

I'm sorry to keep picking at this, but I can't help it.  I don't want to be mean or unfair to Mangini (or you), because he's excellent, there's no doubt.   But I'll listen to "boring stale complacent" Portnoy EVERY SINGLE TIME over the human Tommy Gun Mangini.  Doing crazy athletic gymnastics doesn't necessarily make good MUSIC, and isn't that the point?  This is an awkward conversation because the SOA record is problematic for me, but it's because of Jeff Soto, not Mike Portnoy.   (And this of course concedes the argument that Mangini IS furthering the instrument, but honestly, other than physical dexterity, I don't personally see a lot of that on the last couple DT records). 

Is David Gilmour legendary because every solo, every note is something new and unheard, or because every solo, every note is just right for the song, the moment, the context?   I say this respectfully, but I just think it's a shade unfair to expect a 52 year-old drummer with 35 years in the business to not be able to shift his focus as appropriate to his circumstances.

Ironic because you said this "listen to "boring stale complacent". It just doesn't make sense.

Especially when MM is finally able to craft his drumming. While MP keeps his same style.

Also....This sounds like ToT, which he wanted a different singer for. Complaining about JLB, yet JSS is even worse

What doesn't make sense?  I don't think it's "boring stale complacent", that's just a paraphrase of what I take others to be saying.   Mike is one of a handful of drummers - Collins, Peart, Bonham - that I will put on the album/song to listen to the drummer.  Mangini is not in that group.  Whether it's drums, guitar, or keys, I'm not really impressed by pure dexterity; I want some connection as well.   It's why I prefer Gilmour or Blackmore over, say, Malmsteen or Orlando.

I respectfully think the JLB/JSS "complaint" issue is a matter of substituting your taste in for someone else's; CLEARLY, based on his choice of singers in the eight and a half years since the split he is not down on the "Steve Perry-esque" operatic singing style.  ALL his singers are of a type - Kotzen, Allen, Soto - and it's consistent.  I'm with you; I don't think it's a trade up either, and I've written that, but he's clearly looking for a more rough, "rock and roll" voice (I've long suspected he viewed "Dream Theater" as his version of his buddy Charlie's Anthrax).
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: nobloodyname on January 17, 2020, 10:29:01 AM
Have to say, this album has grown on me massively. First couple of listens, I felt bored. But damn, four or five listens in, I've got it. It really rather rocks.

Definitely better than the first album. If only because it doesn't have Divine Addiction or Alive on it :biggrin:
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: emtee on January 17, 2020, 11:16:54 AM
Amazing, tight musicianship and sonic clarity,
with pretty bland vocals that sound exactly
the same from song to song.

Maybe his voice will grow on me but I'm not
hopefull.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: NoseofNicko on January 17, 2020, 11:48:02 AM
What a painfully generic album.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: devieira73 on January 17, 2020, 11:57:21 AM
If anyone is curious about to how they sound without vocals, the deluxe version is on Spotify.
Also if you are curious to hear Jeff without the rest of the band... ;D
I agree, although I find his vocals enjoyable, I think he’s the weakest link.
I also agree that the album has that kind of relentless vibe, like ToT.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Kwyjibo on January 17, 2020, 12:57:41 PM
When I played this on spotify there were a couple of moments where I thought the musical passages sounded similar to other songs from other artists. I couldn't put my finger on it most of the time, just that I thought I'd heard it before. But the intro to Goodbye Divinity is very similar to Steve Lukather's "Twist The Knife".

All in all it's solid after one listen. Sometimes very generic and JSS is not a good singer, at least not on this record. Some songs have potential, let's see if they grow on me.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Skeever on January 17, 2020, 02:39:56 PM
I get sometimes you just want to rock out but this album would have really benefited from more dynamic songwriting. Two albums in, the Sons of Apollo emotional palette is pretty much a mix of anger, indignance, and bravados; the songs that aren't meant to try and empower you with righteous negative energy are meant to wow you with superficial knowledge of mythology. One can understand why a bunch of middle-aged metal-heads would stick to cliches and tried-and-true songwriter forms for their first record, but I hoped after the second these guys would be comfortable enough with one another to let the guard down and write a few songs from the heart.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: The Walrus on January 17, 2020, 02:45:00 PM
The guitar sound isn't even heavy here. I just got done driving to about 40 minutes of the album again, and it just... it's gross. It's dirty and sludgy but it isn't heavy, it's just filthy, and I mean all three of those adjectives in the bad way, not the good way. Soto's delivery is uniform across the entire album, as is the mood - every song delivers a variation on the same general dark, blasé energy.

There's a lot of musicianship going on, I just can't really differentiate between parts that might've been 'oh shit this is cool' to them in the studio and parts that are just there to fill in space. Lots of the shredding lacks any sense of melody too, it's a bunch of tapping and ornaments around random notes without much thought or structure to it.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Architeuthis on January 17, 2020, 03:06:36 PM
I don't have the album yet , but should be here Saturday.   After reading the negative reviews here,  I'm actually excited about this album!   :metal
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: gzarruk on January 17, 2020, 03:59:54 PM
I don't have the album yet , but should be here Saturday.   After reading the negative reviews here,  I'm actually excited about this album!   :metal

 :rollin

To me, it's better than the first one, by far, but it's still not quite there yet. As countless others have mentioned, JSS definitely is the weak link here, as he just doesn't have (or doesn't use) a wider dynamic range, he just sings everything in his comfort zone, adds a couple YEAHs and calls it a day (but judging by what others who are familiar with his solo material have said here, this might be a fault of the producers instead of Jeff's).

Highlights for me are King of Delusion, Desolate July and New World Today, but even these songs show some of the same flaws of the previous album. NWT, for example, flows nicely untill that weird guitar riff that sounds just like one in Opus Maximus comes in and ruins the flow of the song. Speaking of OM, Derek's keyboard solo starts the same exact way in both songs, it's as if he transcribed and copied his own solo :huh: (and I'm not talking about the intro, which, as mentioned, was lifted from one of Derek's solo albums). Speaking of... do Wither to Black and King of Delusion have the same ending?.... :facepalm:

The two songs I absolutely dislike are Wither to Black and Asphyxiation, I don't see myself ever coming back to these songs again.

The other songs (Goodbye Divinity, Fall to Ascend and Resurrection Day) aren't that good, but they're growing on me, so they might stay.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: KevShmev on January 17, 2020, 05:40:59 PM
So after the unison runs taken straight from The Sons of Anu in Fall to Ascend there's also a section taken from Derek's State of Delirium in the middle of Desolate July. As a fan of the originals I find it a bit weird to hear these ideas re-used in different songs.
If I understood right, MP mentioned they used some ideas from Derek’s solo albums in that interview with RodrigoAltaf. Sure it’s controversial, but personally I don’t have problem with it. I think this can be an interesting way to make more known good musical ideas that otherwise would be forgotten in some more “obscure” solo records (Vinnie Moore did the same when he recorded his first UFO album).

And it is worth noting that Dream Theater did this as well, as the Medicate section from Octavarium has a vocal line that is very similar to one heard in James' first Mullmuzzler album (I think it is from Shores of Avalon).  I caught that the first time I heard Octavarium.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Peter Mc on January 17, 2020, 07:01:39 PM
A lot of people saying Soto’s performance is the weak link here but I think that’s unfair. I think he sings ok here but it’s the actual stuff he is singing that’s the weak link. There’s just nothing memorable or catchy about pretty much any of the songs in terms of the melody. You could have Freddie Mercury in his pomp singing these songs and they’d still be no good. Soto himself is maybe responsible for the lyrics and vocal melodies, I don’t know.  If so, I’d argue his songwriting is the problem rather than his singing.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Volante99 on January 17, 2020, 07:04:37 PM
Haven’t listened to the whole album yet but yeah, not loving it BUT

Fall to Ascend would have made an amazing Dream Theater song. That instrumental breakdown would have been right at home in Six Degrees or Train of Thought.

Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Madman Shepherd on January 17, 2020, 08:54:48 PM
A lot of people saying Soto’s performance is the weak link here but I think that’s unfair. I think he sings ok here but it’s the actual stuff he is singing that’s the weak link. There’s just nothing memorable or catchy about pretty much any of the songs in terms of the melody. You could have Freddie Mercury in his pomp singing these songs and they’d still be no good. Soto himself is maybe responsible for the lyrics and vocal melodies, I don’t know.  If so, I’d argue his songwriting is the problem rather than his singing.

I don't know how much, but at least some of the vocal melodies are written by the other guys. Derek specifically wrote at least some of it in Desolate July. I agree though, that it's unfair to call Soto the weak link. I mean, Billy probably is if there is one. He doesn't stand out much and he's the only one that didn't write anything.

As for my verdict, I think this is a pretty big improvement from the first one. I don't think the album is excellent but it has a lot of killer moments, cool riffs, melodies, etc. Even the more generic songs seem less generic than the generic songs on the first one.

New World Today seemed a bit out of place but I ended up liking it all right. If I had to rate the album, I would concur with some others here and give it a 7. I think I gave the first one a 5, and looking back, it may have been a bit generous.

Edit: I got the deluxe digipak and the booklet is pretty janky. The printing is a bit crooked on the first page and then i noticed there were no song titles. Kind of weird. Then for the lyrics for the fifth track onward, the title is prominent across the side of the page. It has to be a fuck up by somebody.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ytserush on January 17, 2020, 10:38:12 PM
I'm not even sure I notice the VH influences besides them covering a song or two.

I don't mind their niche either.  I'm more of a metal guy than prog, and generally like a little prog mixed with all my metal so in theory, this is right up my ally.  The songs just aren't terribly strong IMO, that's all.  Some other things like Jeff's samey vocals are minor issues to me, but the songs just mostly don't stick to my ears.

At this point, even if I don't like the album (I expect to find it decent, but not mindblowing) I still plan on seeing them because I know it will be a fun show, but if there's nothing on the new album that sticks to my ears, I'm not sure what the future will be here for them. 

I think back about last years Winery Dogs show and I feel that band has so much more potential than SOA because they right catchy songs to a bigger audience (rock vs. prog metal).  MP/BS would be better off investing their time there IMO.  That venue was PACKED and 3 times the size of what SOA are playing in NYC this tour.

For one, the Winery Dogs have a much higher profile as they have toured a lot more and have gotten radio airplay although I suspect any mainstream acceptance was because of Kotzen.

That said, I think the Winery Dogs are slightly more interesting to me because, as a trio, they have more space to fill and there seems to be room to make things more interesting (especially live) I'm sure if it were up to Mike and Billy, they would want to continue with that but apparently Kotzen wants to focus on a solo career or other projects or something. Have there been any updates on the Winery Dogs front or are they history?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ytserush on January 17, 2020, 10:41:59 PM
Oh my god, I actually forgot that this came out today :lolpalm:



You're not the only one.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: RodrigoAltaf on January 18, 2020, 02:12:48 AM
I'm not even sure I notice the VH influences besides them covering a song or two.

I don't mind their niche either.  I'm more of a metal guy than prog, and generally like a little prog mixed with all my metal so in theory, this is right up my ally.  The songs just aren't terribly strong IMO, that's all.  Some other things like Jeff's samey vocals are minor issues to me, but the songs just mostly don't stick to my ears.

At this point, even if I don't like the album (I expect to find it decent, but not mindblowing) I still plan on seeing them because I know it will be a fun show, but if there's nothing on the new album that sticks to my ears, I'm not sure what the future will be here for them. 

I think back about last years Winery Dogs show and I feel that band has so much more potential than SOA because they right catchy songs to a bigger audience (rock vs. prog metal).  MP/BS would be better off investing their time there IMO.  That venue was PACKED and 3 times the size of what SOA are playing in NYC this tour.

For one, the Winery Dogs have a much higher profile as they have toured a lot more and have gotten radio airplay although I suspect any mainstream acceptance was because of Kotzen.

That said, I think the Winery Dogs are slightly more interesting to me because, as a trio, they have more space to fill and there seems to be room to make things more interesting (especially live) I'm sure if it were up to Mike and Billy, they would want to continue with that but apparently Kotzen wants to focus on a solo career or other projects or something. Have there been any updates on the Winery Dogs front or are they history?

MP spoke about TWD in my interview with him. Richie is doing an anniversary tour this year, and there's a will to record a third album once that's done. I think that TWD is the best thing MP has done since leaving DT, and it's not his fault that it didn't take off as expected. After the success of the second album and tour, Richie decided to do another solo album, and this put the band in the backseat. That's why MP got a window to put together Sons of Apollo.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Architeuthis on January 18, 2020, 02:55:20 AM
I like SOA much much more than the Winery Dogs!
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Peter Mc on January 18, 2020, 04:14:33 AM
The Winery Dogs are just as dead in the water as these are unfortunately. They’re perfectly listenable, probably the most listenable of the post DT projects (discounting bands he was already in like TA and NMB) but there’s nothing remarkable about them that stands out. They do catchy radio friendly rock songs but so do a LOT of other more successful and more accomplished bands, they don’t fill any kind of gap in the market.  Why would most people buy a TWD album when they could buy a Slash album or Alter Bridge or countless others.  Like I said, they’re not bad but they’re not good enough to stand out from the crowd either. 

Prog metal is a much smaller pond with Mike and (to a lesser extent) Derek already being fairly big fish in that pond so Sons Of Apollo had a bit of a head start and existing fans avidly waiting for what they’d do especially when they were telling all and sundry that they’d made a classic, were better than DT and were the new kings of prog. The problem is they weren’t good enough to capitalise on that head start as they made a decidedly average first album and Dream Theater then made an album that was light years beyond it to show who the true kings were without ever having to open their mouth.

Soto was surprisingly candid when promoting this album to say (in so many words) that the first album/tour hadn’t done as well as they’d hoped and it had looked like album number 2 wouldn’t happen. I don’t see this going any better.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: gzarruk on January 18, 2020, 07:30:09 AM
MP spoke about TWD in my interview with him. Richie is doing an anniversary tour this year, and there's a will to record a third album once that's done. I think that TWD is the best thing MP has done since leaving DT, and it's not his fault that it didn't take off as expected. After the success of the second album and tour, Richie decided to do another solo album, and this put the band in the backseat. That's why MP got a window to put together Sons of Apollo.

Richie pulled an MP on TWD :lol
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Anxiety35 on January 18, 2020, 03:41:43 PM
The new release is much better than the first. However, it's not "oh my gosh amazing." I think the band is still trying to figure out who they are musically. This is why the supergroup concept sounds cool, but there are 5 guys who have their background of 20+ years each as their musical DNA and to me, SOA sounds like these guys are in a musical casserole instead of a blender. Things are there but they don't quite seem to mesh. It's like Derek has his stuff, Thal has his, MP has his, and so on. Therefore it's just thrown together and put in the oven. You have what you have when it comes out.

My initial thoughts...

Overall the album is heavier than the first release.
I like Derek's playing much better on this one than the previous.
Glad they gave Billy some bass solo spots.
Portnoy plays to the music and throws in his usual fills. Nothing new from him.
I don't care for Thal's guitar tone and his solos seem out of place in relation to the rest of the music. He's a monster player though.
Not a fan of Soto with SOA. The "Yowww!!" and "Yeahhh!!" screams are annoying. With his lack of dynamic, it almost sounds like it could be a vocal demo. This may be the direction of MP and Derek and not solely on Soto.

I give it a 7 out of 10.
 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: SalvadorDalisDilemma on January 18, 2020, 03:53:52 PM
Soto was surprisingly candid when promoting this album to say (in so many words) that the first album/tour hadn’t done as well as they’d hoped and it had looked like album number 2 wouldn’t happen. I don’t see this going any better.

Did Jeff elaborate on what exactly they had hoped for?  I mean only Dream Theater and maybe Kansas seem to have massive crowds in the American-based Prog Rock/Metal realm anymore.

As for this album, nothing reaches Opus Maximus for me, but I really like Desolate July (RIP David Z), New World Today, and Derek's opening to King of Delusion.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Peter Mc on January 18, 2020, 05:39:45 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cQaH69XgvQY&feature=youtu.be

What a statement in the mid of the promotion of the album by JSS

This was the thing I was talking about where he says they nearly didn’t come back as things didn’t go like they hoped.  What he says is slightly different to what I remember but I still think the gist of it is that it was all a bit of a struggle, the band aren’t as big as they should be and ultimately they almost never continued.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: KevShmev on January 18, 2020, 07:29:31 PM
But who is to say how big they "should be"? 

I checked out a few of the new tunes on YT and it's clear why they aren't bigger; the songs aren't there. There are good moments, but they seem to get lost in the blandness of many of the others.  The long song, New World Today, was a total and complete mess.  I get that the "sudden left turn syndrome" has been done well by Portnoy's other bands before (see: Dream Theater), but that song seems to randomly bounce from idea to idea with no sense of purpose whatsoever and then the song is over.  Bummer, as the lead guitar that kicked off the song was pretty cool, but then the trainwreck happened. 

Maybe it is not fair to call Soto the weak link, but I am definitely someone who finds his voice and most of the vocal melodies pretty bland and forgettable.  You either connect with a voice or you don't, and I do not connect with his voice in any way at all.  Because they wanted to make it a direct competition, Soto, from what I've heard, cannot come to the greatness of JLB.  La Brie might be very hit or miss live (always has been for me), but he always brings it in the studio, and it is actually hilarious that some Portnoy fans (who love to hate JLB online) talk shit on JLB while praising Soto.  I get it, it's the internet, where people are allowed to have bad opinions, but that is one of the more LOL-worthy ones of recent years.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Cool Chris on January 18, 2020, 09:51:26 PM
Maybe it is not fair to call Soto the weak link, but I am definitely someone who finds his voice and most of the vocal melodies pretty bland and forgettable.  You either connect with a voice or you don't, and I do not connect with his voice in any way at all.

Sums up my limited experience with this band.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Architeuthis on January 18, 2020, 11:02:19 PM
I really like JSS voice on the first album and he killed it live when I seen them in Seattle!  He's also pretty awesome on the Live at Plovdiv blu-ray.  I haven't heard the new album yet, it was supposed to arrive at my friends music store today but UPS got delayed.  I'm still excited to hear it because I'll probably like it based on the not so good reviews here.    :lol
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: MirrorMask on January 19, 2020, 09:32:52 AM
I guess I'll have to join the "meh" category, since half the songs of the album seem to fly by without notice.

Goodbye Divinity is nice and groovy, it sounds fresh and has a rhytm that really keeps the song going. Desolate July is a really good melodic piece, and also King of Delusion is a bit unusual and therefore fresh.

But the rest? all of the heavy, fast songs are pretty meh. It's not that they're bad, they're just forgettable. Wither to Black, Asphyxiation, Fall to Ascend and Resurrection Day... I can't really save one, maybe Wither to Black because it has a nice progression in the bridge, but they all fail to get you going.

Also the final epic... maybe it needs more listenings, but it sounds forgettable without any really big highlights. Nice intro, then it's an usual song, something happens different after the second chorus and then it's random solos after random solos and in the final minutes the chorus comes back because it has to end somehow. It doesn't really take you on a journey or makes you interested, it's just... happening and then after 15 long minutes it finally ends.

I've seen the debates about "what did you expect from this band"... well, I expected good songs, to make it very simple. What is a "good songs"? hell if I could anticipate it, music tastes are subjective and there's no formula for which you could say "if they write this and that with a certain melody and a certain structure I'm absolutely certain I will like it". Whatever the result, I would have wanted for something to grab me. If they all went for the more melodic stuff like Goodbye Divinity, Desolate July and King of Delusion maybe I would have loved the record, some other people would have complained "where are the faster songs" but I wouldn't have minded because I would have liked a "slower" album in this example. But 4 fast songs out of 4 being very average and a big final epic that makes you forget what you were listening during the inevitable long solo.... it drags the album down too much for me. Considering how God of the Sun is by far my favorite song of them and that Divine Addiction was such a cool song, I'd daresay that - of course based on my tastes alone, it's not that I'm right - they should just stick to the more melodic, groovy and bluesy songs and just forget about writing heavy stuff, they don't seem to have a kickass and convincing fast song in them.

Pity because Goodbye Divinity was such a promising start for this album cycle....
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Lowdz on January 19, 2020, 04:24:41 PM
Wasn’t that impressed on first listen. There’s no God of the Sun type standout song on this one. Bumblefoot’s solos are cool but nothing memorable in 5he riff department. I did like the track with the jazz-y piano.

I’ve always been a fan of JSS but his delivery is samey and one dimensional.

I’ll give it more plays before I write it off just on the calibre of the personnel.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: IDontNotDoThings on January 19, 2020, 06:52:45 PM
Obligatory "1 album's worth of songs I like" playlist that I said I was going to do:

1. Goodbye Divinity
2. Wither To Black
3. Coming Home
4. Labyrinth
5. God Of The Sun
6. Signs Of The Time
7. Desolate July
8. King Of Delusion
9. Divine Addiction
10. New World Today
(Total: 79:00)
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: emtee on January 20, 2020, 02:10:12 PM
I've got 4 spins under my belt and I feel the same as I did after the first spin.

So much potential but nothing really moves me. The guitar solos are totally forgettable.
JSS..YOW! YEAH! Monotone. I do like MP's contribution. I think he drives the music along
well. Unfortunately, I just can't make any kind of connection to the songs. For me, it's
just emotionless hard rock that's been done many times before. I really want to love
this band but so far, it isn't happening.

God Of The Sun is far and away the best thing they have done IMO.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: The Walrus on January 20, 2020, 03:08:59 PM
The piano bit at the start of King of Delusion is the best thing here
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: goo-goo on January 20, 2020, 03:14:21 PM
The star from both albums for me has been Derek Sherinian. Love his tone and solos. I do think MP should stay away from the arranging/producing role. Seems like his signature prog metal arrangement is intro/pre-chorus/chorus/shredding-wankery unrelating to the song/chorus/outro. This band would highly benefit from an external producer as I think there is a lot of potential with this band (or had potential). Having said this, I do think this album is leagues better than the debut.  You can tell they took a bit longer constructing the songs.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: gzarruk on January 21, 2020, 02:13:41 PM
Obligatory "1 album's worth of songs I like" playlist that I said I was going to do:

1. Goodbye Divinity
2. Wither To Black
3. Coming Home
4. Labyrinth
5. God Of The Sun
6. Signs Of The Time
7. Desolate July
8. King Of Delusion
9. Divine Addiction
10. New World Today
(Total: 79:00)

I do this too! Here's mine:

1. God of the Sun
2. Signs of the Time
3. Goodbye Divinity
4. Desolate July
5. King of Delusion
6. Labyrinth
7. Fall to Ascend
8. Lost in Oblivion
9. New World Today

75 minutes
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Madman Shepherd on January 21, 2020, 10:26:12 PM
Now that I've got a chance to listen to the album a little more in depth, here are some thoughts:

-I don't think there's a weak song on the album.
-There's no real A+ quality songs on the album either
-I get the Soto criticism, but I think his performance is much better on this album but still nowhere near what he's capable of
-The recording of his vocals took a big step up, too. The extra reverb really makes his voice sound more badass.
-Portnoy needs to cut it out with the backing vocals. Let Soto harmonize himself and if you absolutely must in concert, do it then. Leave the album alone
-Bumblefoot's backing vocals are a bit better
-Goodbye Divinity would have made an awesome album closer, especially since it's about struggling and ultimately saying, "fuck off, we're gonna make this thing work."
-King of Delusion sounds A LOT like Ozzy's Perry Mason. Similar riff and vocals during the verse.
-I think the songwriting credits are interesting. It says songs "Written and arranged by Sherinian Thal, and Portnoy." Clearly not alphabetical so the placement is intentional. Kinda reminds me of when Dream Theater started saying the songs were written by "Petrucci, Portnoy, Rudess, and Myung." Only one of those was not in alphabetical order. What does it all mean?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on January 22, 2020, 06:52:25 AM
I'd imagine it means the ones mentioned first did more of the writing similar to the way ingredients are listed in the nutrition facts on food products in order of most used.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: TAC on January 22, 2020, 07:03:37 AM
-King of Delusion sounds A LOT like Ozzy's Perry Mason. Similar riff and vocals during the verse.

Seeing how I love Perry Mason, I figured I'd give the song a listen. Geez, it's actually pretty damn good..
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Skeever on January 22, 2020, 08:04:15 AM
But who is to say how big they "should be"? 

I checked out a few of the new tunes on YT and it's clear why they aren't bigger; the songs aren't there. There are good moments, but they seem to get lost in the blandness of many of the others.  The long song, New World Today, was a total and complete mess.  I get that the "sudden left turn syndrome" has been done well by Portnoy's other bands before (see: Dream Theater), but that song seems to randomly bounce from idea to idea with no sense of purpose whatsoever and then the song is over.  Bummer, as the lead guitar that kicked off the song was pretty cool, but then the trainwreck happened. 

Maybe it is not fair to call Soto the weak link, but I am definitely someone who finds his voice and most of the vocal melodies pretty bland and forgettable.  You either connect with a voice or you don't, and I do not connect with his voice in any way at all.  Because they wanted to make it a direct competition, Soto, from what I've heard, cannot come to the greatness of JLB.  La Brie might be very hit or miss live (always has been for me), but he always brings it in the studio, and it is actually hilarious that some Portnoy fans (who love to hate JLB online) talk shit on JLB while praising Soto.  I get it, it's the internet, where people are allowed to have bad opinions, but that is one of the more LOL-worthy ones of recent years.

This, exactly. Regardless of what prog fans think, the elements that give a band wide appear are consistently going to be melody, vocals, and songwriting in general. Go back and listen to Images and Words, there's so many strong, catchy melodies everywhere, and LaBrie's vocals possess a warmth. Listen to Neal - same thing. Maybe he's never been as big, but he's got an ear for good melodies and there's a quality to his vocals that resonates with people. I listen to the Sons, and I don't hear it. Very few people will be moved to care about what Thal or Derek are doing when Soto's vocals and lyrics are so mundane. I like Soto, too, I believe he is capable of being a far better and more interesting singer but for some reason there is just no chemistry here.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on January 22, 2020, 08:10:01 AM
I've given a few more listens.  It's really not as bad as some are saying it is.  I don't think it's JSS either.  He is very samey throughout and I get that criticism, it's the same as the first album for him, but the reason this isn't anything better than "solid" is because there are NO catchy melodies.  Desolate July maybe is the closest to having some strong melodies in the verses.  I felt the same way about the first album, although I think they were a bit catchier songs on that album with Alive for example.  This album has some fun instrumental moments but there's just not a single song that blows me away, that makes me say "let me rewind and listen to that again" or that I find stuck in my head afterwards. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Grappler on January 22, 2020, 08:15:16 AM
I just find myself enjoying the album for what it is, rather than trying to determine what it's not. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: TAC on January 22, 2020, 08:35:06 AM
I just find myself enjoying the album for what it is, rather than trying to determine what it's not.

Always good advice.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Stadler on January 22, 2020, 08:37:11 AM
I've given a few more listens.  It's really not as bad as some are saying it is.  I don't think it's JSS either.  He is very samey throughout and I get that criticism, it's the same as the first album for him, but the reason this isn't anything better than "solid" is because there are NO catchy melodies.  Desolate July maybe is the closest to having some strong melodies in the verses.  I felt the same way about the first album, although I think they were a bit catchier songs on that album with Alive for example.  This album has some fun instrumental moments but there's just not a single song that blows me away, that makes me say "let me rewind and listen to that again" or that I find stuck in my head afterwards.

I'm not asking to challenge you, but it's an idea I've had for a while and can't decide if it's legit:  isn't the "same-y-ness" of JSS in part the reason for the lack of melodies?   Meaning, how many great songs are there that the melody is carried by the vocals?   As bad a singer as Ozzy is, generally, the best Ozzy songs are those where Ozzy sings the melody in that trebly, whiny voice and it cuts through the sludge of the backing track.  Listen to something like Megalomania by Sabbath (or ALL of Sabotage for that matter).   If it was just "I don't like the singing", I probably wouldn't have said anything; there are plenty of singers I don't like.  But I think THAT was the sonic spectrum in which that melody, that catchiness, could be brought in.   
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on January 22, 2020, 08:47:29 AM
Could be, but I blame it on the writing.  You could change up JSS's style on these melodies or replace him with another singer and they won't be any catchier IMO.  I'm not sure I blame JSS at all in this, seems he's not terribly involved in the writing and is likely being guided on what to do.  He certainly doesn't sound the best but I think he's capable of much more but this is what SOA wants to sound like.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: KevShmev on January 22, 2020, 08:52:56 AM
I can’t help but wonder if the ex-DT guys are adamant that he can sing everything live just like in the studio, thus he’s not going all-out in the studio since he might not be able to do it live.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on January 22, 2020, 09:57:44 AM
I can’t help but wonder if the ex-DT guys are adamant that he can sing everything live just like in the studio, thus he’s not going all-out in the studio since he might not be able to do it live.

I wonder that as well, they took an approach that won't get people shitting on the live vocals... although people still do.  I mean, we know MP's feelings on JLB's struggles so I definitely wonder if that plays a role here.

However, the more I listen to this, the more I'm excited to see them soon.  These songs may come to a new life in the live setting as they also did on the first album.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: devieira73 on January 22, 2020, 10:19:49 AM
I just find myself enjoying the album for what it is, rather than trying to determine what it's not.

Totally agree with this approach. All this discution about JSS and the lack of melody in the SoA's music, reminded me, on TOOL thread, of people talking about the lack of melody on Fear Inocolum and someone here pointed out: "when TOOL was about melody?". Maybe SoA isn't about it either. I know, because of that (beside other factors), this band won't please a lot of people and that's it.

On the album, to me, King of Delusion and New World Today are totally A+ songs :metal :metal
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Evermind on January 22, 2020, 10:24:43 AM
I'm just judging on how much I enjoy the songs. Not trying to determine anything. From my first listen, the album is absolutely forgettable, and I don't even want to come back to it.

Good to see people enjoying it though, the reception seems more positive everywhere and I'm glad the album is received well.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: The Walrus on January 22, 2020, 10:27:41 AM
I just find myself enjoying the album for what it is, rather than trying to determine what it's not.

Well, I determined that it's not good, so trying to enjoy it for what it is is a little difficult.  :rollin
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on January 22, 2020, 10:29:01 AM
I dunno, I'm just saying how I feel about it.  I rated it a 7 on first listen, to me, that's decent music.  I'm going to check them out live, but I just don't love them.  I don't think that has anything to do with determining what it should sound like.  I'm just judging what it DOES sound like to my ears. I'm glad others enjoy it more than I do and it sucks for those who enjoy it less than I do, but to each their own.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Bentower on January 22, 2020, 10:32:02 AM
I don't know if it's an omen of sorts, but it is definitely odd that the album struggles to end on a high note from JSS.

One thing I reflected on last Friday at the DT show as I was singing along to One Last Time is that SoA is lacking those strong, soaring melodies.

I liked MMXX well enough whenever Bumblefoot took a solo, but that's not enough to bring me back.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Stadler on January 22, 2020, 10:33:26 AM
That's me three.  "What it is" for me, is a missed opportunity with a glaring fault that the other players ought to have seen. That's an opinion, of course, since they presumably made the choices they wanted to, but it's not like I'm trashing it. I'll listen to it, and I'll buy the deluxe edition as I always do.  Every indication I have is that this is very much the album they wanted to make, and so the choices are deliberate.  I accept that for what it is. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Ben_Jamin on January 22, 2020, 11:21:18 AM
After listening to it more. This albums isn't too bad nor is it amazing either. Certain things in each song they could've done differently to enhance them.

King of Delusion is their best song they've made so far, it'd be an excellent live song. Its really Dynamic that the album mix doesn't translate that well.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: MirrorMask on January 22, 2020, 12:10:14 PM
I just find myself enjoying the album for what it is, rather than trying to determine what it's not.

But I do judge the album for what it is. I accept that it's a heavy rock / prog album which has 4 fast songs, 2 mid tempo / groovy ones, one ballad and one epic. I happen to find all the fast songs and the epic quite bland and average. I'm not complaining that it has too many fast songs or too few slow songs or that one epic isn't enough or that it should have been more prog and less metal rather than less prog and more metal - I gladly accept that this is what they've done. My personal taste simply isn't satisfied, that's all, I'm not saying "they should have done that instead", I think that what they've done doesn't really grab me.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: MoraWintersoul on January 22, 2020, 03:10:06 PM
Good to see people enjoying it though, the reception seems more positive everywhere and I'm glad the album is received well.
Yeah. It puzzles me a little bit though. Someone in MP's replies on Twitter said that wow, imagine if DT spent ten years with MP evolving to sound like this, and got a lot of likes. I was just like............ yeah. Sounds like a thing that would have happened  :lol
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on January 22, 2020, 03:13:12 PM
Good to see people enjoying it though, the reception seems more positive everywhere and I'm glad the album is received well.
Yeah. It puzzles me a little bit though. Someone in MP's replies on Twitter said that wow, imagine if DT spent ten years with MP evolving to sound like this, and got a lot of likes. I was just like............ yeah. Sounds like a thing that would have happened  :lol

You can't really trust MP's social media following, doesn't he block people who talk shit?  Either way, for anyone, the people who mostly follow and comment are big fans who won't say anything negative.  Now, if you check the comments on blabbermouth.... well you can't trust those either as it's just the opposite and filled with haters. 

At the end of the day, it's music and someone else's opinion should mean nothing to your own opinion.  If they are truly getting great reviews all around, bravo to them as I do wish them success.  I'm just not following closely to know if that's true or not.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: deggs37 on January 22, 2020, 04:33:10 PM
You can't really trust MP's social media following, doesn't he block people who talk shit? 

*Has flashback to the great MP forum ban wave of 2010*

Imagine banning a huge chunk of your most die-hard fans and wondering why recent sales aren't what they could have been. Granted, this doesn't apply to me as I still follow and support most of his post-DT releases. Just seems a bit crazy to do that to your fans.

Back on topic - I had the same experience with this album as I did the first one. Hyped at first until I finally get it and realize I want to like it more than I actually do. Give it a 7 out of 10 which is probably a bit generous. Just like the first one, felt it really suffers in the songwriting department and could have used more time cooking up these songs.

I think this band really suffers from the Adrenaline Mob syndrome, which is that it's entirely obvious it's been concocted to be a 'hit' band going for mainstream. Nothing wrong with that I suppose, but it shows. Funny thing is I enjoyed the first Adrenaline Mob album a bit more than the Sons of Apollo stuff.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Peter Mc on January 22, 2020, 06:45:51 PM
Yeah, I still follow him on Twitter but am aware that he just blocks people who say anything negative which he has every right to do. Who wants to go to your Twitter and see people saying negative stuff about you.  It does mean though that I don’t click on the links he puts up to reviews and stuff as I know he’ll only link to the absolutely glowing reviews. I’m sure all bands do the same though.

As for the album, I’ve listened through 3 times, it’s not grown on me at all so I won’t be buying it unfortunately. I’m happy for those who are getting some enjoyment out of it though, just wish I felt the same.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: TAC on January 22, 2020, 06:48:37 PM
Funny thing is I enjoyed the first Adrenaline Mob album a bit more than the Sons of Apollo stuff.

Same here, man.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: gzarruk on January 22, 2020, 07:43:33 PM
I still have a screenshot somewhere of Mike threatening to block me, via PM, on Twitter for replying to one of his early SOA posts, when the lineup wasn't revealed yet, saying Bumble was the guitar player for the band :lol
In Mike's favor, he asked me to delete the tweet (which I did) and didn't block me :tup
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Madman Shepherd on January 22, 2020, 08:31:00 PM
I still have a screenshot somewhere of Mike threatening to block me, via PM, on Twitter for replying to one of his early SOA posts, when the lineup wasn't revealed yet, saying Bumble was the guitar player for the band :lol
In Mike's favor, he asked me to delete the tweet (which I did) and didn't block me :tup

Oh god, the flashbacks to just how poor of a roll out the announcement was. 

I've even taken a step back and asked myself if the incredibly anticlimactic beginning of the band had anything to do with my lukewarm reaction to the music, but I think I do a pretty good job of judging the music on its own merits.

It definitely couldn't have helped though.
-King of Delusion sounds A LOT like Ozzy's Perry Mason. Similar riff and vocals during the verse.

Seeing how I love Perry Mason, I figured I'd give the song a listen. Geez, it's actually pretty damn good..

Ozzmosis is a terribly underrated album. His last one that was worthwhile if you ask me.  King of Delusion is definitely a great song but the Perry Mason parts are a bit distracting for me. Fortunately there's a lot more to that song than just that.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: TAC on January 22, 2020, 08:51:50 PM
Ozzmosis is incredible. I rank it as my #4 Ozzy album.
Diary
Blizzard
Moon
Ozzmosis
NMT
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: faizoff on January 22, 2020, 09:16:24 PM
I love Ozzmosis, it's my 2nd favorite right after No More Tears. NMT was my favorite and my real introduction to Ozzy. I had heard a few tracks like Crazy Train and a few others but NMT was the first album that came out when I getting really into metal and hard rock.

I'll have to check out the new SoA album, the two tracks I heard have been good. I liked the first album, it was a good listen.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: lucasembarbosa on January 22, 2020, 09:55:19 PM
Fun fact: as mentioned before, the mid section jazzy keyboard solo of New World Today is a rip off from Derek's solo work (Day of the Dead). Even more interesting is that the original solo, almost note by note, is a guitar solo from Allan Holdsworth. Maybe it's a homage from Derek to one of his influences.

The Sons of Anu rip off in Fall to Ascend is also a nice nod to DS' solo career. Between Psychotic Symphony and MMXX I think that there's like 5 or 6 direct situations of this copy-paste, just like Derek did with his solo song Been Here Before and Anna Lee.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Kyo on January 23, 2020, 04:32:15 AM
Fun fact: as mentioned before, the mid section jazzy keyboard solo of New World Today is a rip off from Derek's solo work (Day of the Dead). Even more interesting is that the original solo, almost note by note, is a guitar solo from Allan Holdsworth. Maybe it's a homage from Derek to one of his influences.

And the intro of the song is a remake of Ascension from Derek's Molecular Heinosity.

Quote
The Sons of Anu rip off in Fall to Ascend is also a nice nod to DS' solo career. Between Psychotic Symphony and MMXX I think that there's like 5 or 6 direct situations of this copy-paste, just like Derek did with his solo song Been Here Before and Anna Lee.

He also reworked quite a few of his older ideas on the Oceana album.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Madman Shepherd on January 23, 2020, 06:01:15 AM
Ozzmosis is incredible. I rank it as my #4 Ozzy album.
Diary
Blizzard
Moon
Ozzmosis
NMT

Whoa. My list is almost identical except I would put No Rest in the place of NMT.

I shouldn't like Ozzmosis as much as I do since they came to rely on outside songwriters which I think is cheesy, but good music is good music. I think everything after Ozzmosis is garbage though.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: TAC on January 23, 2020, 06:08:02 AM
I think everything after Ozzmosis is garbage though.

Agreed.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: gmillerdrake on January 23, 2020, 08:15:53 AM
also a nice nod

I don't see all these 'nice nods' they have as 'nice nods'.....but just examples of lazy writing and the continued abusing of their laurels
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: pcs90 on January 23, 2020, 10:53:19 PM
Fun fact: as mentioned before, the mid section jazzy keyboard solo of New World Today is a rip off from Derek's solo work (Day of the Dead). Even more interesting is that the original solo, almost note by note, is a guitar solo from Allan Holdsworth. Maybe it's a homage from Derek to one of his influences.

And the intro of the song is a remake of Ascension from Derek's Molecular Heinosity.

Ascension is the one I was thinking of a few pages back. I do really like how Bumblefoot plays it though.

I had forgotten about the Day of the Dead references as I hadn't listened to that track in years. I must say, Holdsworth does that solo better. It's interesting though that Derek is not only copying his own material, but others as well as there are a lot of ideas in Holdsworth's solo that are played here. No doubt that was intentional, though I wonder why? Surely he's able to craft well-thought-out solos on his own without just ripping off other musicians (or his past work?) That being said, I do love most of his solo material and if he's going to steal from his back catalog I guess that's the best place to go.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: SwedishGoose on January 23, 2020, 11:21:46 PM
That being said, I do love most of his solo material and if he's going to steal from his back catalog I guess that's the best place to go.

Sure..... I think the risk of him suing himself is pretty low...
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: pcs90 on January 23, 2020, 11:32:21 PM
That being said, I do love most of his solo material and if he's going to steal from his back catalog I guess that's the best place to go.

Sure..... I think the risk of him suing himself is pretty low...

Yes, that too! :lol
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: lucasembarbosa on January 24, 2020, 01:25:55 AM
Having that said, I'm looking forward to Derek's new solo album, with Kiko Loureiro and long time co-writer Simon Phillips! I won't be surprised if these new DS solo album sounds much much better than MMXX
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: RodrigoAltaf on January 24, 2020, 05:06:41 AM
They played Deep Purple's Burn and Tom Sawyer on the first night of the tour.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Max Kuehnau on January 24, 2020, 05:20:59 AM
Having that said, I'm looking forward to Derek's new solo album, with Kiko Loureiro and long time co-writer Simon Phillips! I won't be surprised if these new DS solo album sounds much much better than MMXX
well, Simon will be one factor why that will be somewhat likely (his drum sound is perfect IMHO as well as his production skills and his general musicality)
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: devieira73 on January 24, 2020, 06:28:55 AM
They played Deep Purple's Burn and Tom Sawyer on the first night of the tour.
Also Tom Sawyer? Are you sure? In setlist.fm it doesn’t appear.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on January 24, 2020, 07:33:56 AM
Solid setlist, I wonder if Tom Sawyer was a JSS solo thing before Alive (which was dedicated to Neil according to setlist.fm) similar to how JSS was doing a Queen tribute before Alive last tour. 

Only missing one song from the new album.  Kind of rather they had played that and not the Deep Purple cover.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: DTA on January 24, 2020, 07:43:06 AM

Only missing one song from the new album.  Kind of rather they had played that and not the Deep Purple cover.

I feel like MP does that intentionally (leaves a song unplayed) so that if they ever do a second leg they can play that song and change up the set.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on January 24, 2020, 07:56:37 AM

Only missing one song from the new album.  Kind of rather they had played that and not the Deep Purple cover.

I feel like MP does that intentionally (leaves a song unplayed) so that if they ever do a second leg they can play that song and change up the set.

Yea, DT does that, lots of bands do that, the difference is... no one knows if there will be another tour which is why I wish they'd just do the whole album if they are going to do 7/8 of it and then also do a cover song.  Just my thoughts. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: axeman90210 on January 24, 2020, 10:32:40 AM
Honestly, I'd rather they ditch they Billy Sheehan solo spot than the Deep Purple cover if they were going to make room in the set for one more song. The Van Halen cover was a high point of the set the first time around so I expect I'll really dig the Deep Purple cover too.

Looks like Tom Sawyer is attached to Wither to Black, either at the end or spliced in somewhere.

I'm surprised the epic from the new album isn't closing the set (before the encore).
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Stadler on January 24, 2020, 11:16:25 AM
I'm with Axeman; I'd rather hear Burn (one of my favorite songs, but that's not why I'd want to hear it) than a solo spot any day of the week.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: gzarruk on January 24, 2020, 11:46:44 AM
They still could play at least 1 FII song they haven't played yet, like Burning my Soul or something. I also expect them to play ACOS someday too, maybe for the obligatory live album recording Mike always does of every new tour. That song's way too iconic/important for Mike (and the lineup with Derek) to not play it again at some point.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on January 24, 2020, 12:27:34 PM
I'm with Axeman; I'd rather hear Burn (one of my favorite songs, but that's not why I'd want to hear it) than a solo spot any day of the week.

I agree too, was just comparing song vs song spots not against solos.  I could do without Figaro's whore as well.  Doesn't even need to be replaced by a song.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: gzarruk on January 24, 2020, 12:30:10 PM
If they wanted to do a Deep Purple song, they could've just played Divine Addiction :P
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: MirrorMask on January 24, 2020, 12:33:27 PM
If they wanted to do a Deep Purple song, they could've just played Divine Addiction :P

 :lol
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ytserush on January 24, 2020, 01:27:49 PM

I respectfully think the JLB/JSS "complaint" issue is a matter of substituting your taste in for someone else's; CLEARLY, based on his choice of singers in the eight and a half years since the split he is not down on the "Steve Perry-esque" operatic singing style.  ALL his singers are of a type - Kotzen, Allen, Soto - and it's consistent.  I'm with you; I don't think it's a trade up either, and I've written that, but he's clearly looking for a more rough, "rock and roll" voice (I've long suspected he viewed "Dream Theater" as his version of his buddy Charlie's Anthrax).

I'm think John Petrucci might have something to say about that.

I've never been a fan of Soto's work so that was really my only reservation with this band. That said, I was kind of impressed by the live album. More impressed than I thought I would be. (Haven't heard any of the second album yet)
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ytserush on January 24, 2020, 01:39:31 PM
Good to see people enjoying it though, the reception seems more positive everywhere and I'm glad the album is received well.
Yeah. It puzzles me a little bit though. Someone in MP's replies on Twitter said that wow, imagine if DT spent ten years with MP evolving to sound like this, and got a lot of likes. I was just like............ yeah. Sounds like a thing that would have happened  :lol

You can't really trust MP's social media following, doesn't he block people who talk shit?  Either way, for anyone, the people who mostly follow and comment are big fans who won't say anything negative.  Now, if you check the comments on blabbermouth.... well you can't trust those either as it's just the opposite and filled with haters. 

At the end of the day, it's music and someone else's opinion should mean nothing to your own opinion.  If they are truly getting great reviews all around, bravo to them as I do wish them success.  I'm just not following closely to know if that's true or not.

Difficult to tell. Seems like most of the discussion and middle ground is lost.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: hefdaddy42 on January 24, 2020, 03:25:16 PM
OK, so I have the first album, and thought it was incredibly, well, OK at best.

Is this second album more of the same, or has new ground been broken?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: The Walrus on January 24, 2020, 03:28:49 PM
OK, so I have the first album, and thought it was incredibly, well, OK at best.

Is this second album more of the same, or has new ground been broken?

Literally sounds like it was made in the same sessions as the first one
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on January 24, 2020, 03:29:03 PM
yea, more of the same
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Peter Mc on January 24, 2020, 04:22:51 PM
OK, so I have the first album, and thought it was incredibly, well, OK at best.

Is this second album more of the same, or has new ground been broken?

It’s more of the same but worse. There’s nothing on this that comes close to God Of The Sun for example. Not that there was on the last album either to be honest.  Last album is about a 7/10 on a good day. This is, at best, a 4/10 for me.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Madman Shepherd on January 24, 2020, 05:57:22 PM
OK, so I have the first album, and thought it was incredibly, well, OK at best.

Is this second album more of the same, or has new ground been broken?

It’s more of the same but worse. There’s nothing on this that comes close to God Of The Sun for example. Not that there was on the last album either to be honest.  Last album is about a 7/10 on a good day. This is, at best, a 4/10 for me.
...and that just goes to show how different opinions can be. I think the new album is FAR more consistent and therefore, overall much better. Yet, I do agree it doesn't have a high point like God of the Sun.

OK, so I have the first album, and thought it was incredibly, well, OK at best.

Is this second album more of the same, or has new ground been broken?

Literally sounds like it was made in the same sessions as the first one

Again, I disagree. A bit more diverse. More thoughtful riffs and melodies. Sounds like they took more time on this on every front: writing, mixing, etc.


I think almost everyone agrees you won't have your mind blown but it's definitely not as bad as people are making it out to be.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: pcs90 on January 24, 2020, 08:27:22 PM
Having that said, I'm looking forward to Derek's new solo album, with Kiko Loureiro and long time co-writer Simon Phillips! I won't be surprised if these new DS solo album sounds much much better than MMXX

I agree. As I said before I enjoy much of Derek's solo material, and the albums with Simon tend to be especially strong compositionally. I have very little doubt that this album will be far more engaging than SoA's.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: IgnotusPerIgnotium on January 25, 2020, 07:12:16 AM
So after spending a good one week with the album, for me it's a win..definitely not as good or as memorable as their debut, but a solid one..
Considering the time they spend to write it, they managed to present a continuation of PS solidifying the sound and style of the band..

First of all lets get out of the way something that the majority may not know..In spots they use some ideas from Derek's solo albums..
and to be fair the best moments from some of them..like the dual solo's from Son's of Anu (Black Utopia), or the dreamy intro from Ascesion (Molecular Heinosity)
and the cool Rhodes comping playing under Holdsworth's solo from Day of the Dead (Mythology)..it's all Derek's music which is great, but I'd like
some fresh ideas and not something that I've heard before..
The second thing is a minor complain..the spots of bass solos makes no sense in the songs..it's just unnecessary, although playing wise
they are amazing, they just don't add anything..

Now let's talk about the good things..I really like the layout and order of the songs, it definitely is an album that needs to grow with the listener,
at least for me..but they are well balanced that make a really good experience..Personally a good song is when just by looking the title I can sing it
in my mind..that's always a good sign..I like the album for the energy and the plain metal side of it with stellar musicianship..Ron Thal and Derek
wrote some wild staff in this especially with their solos and riffs..The focus in this one is the band and how to present a more cohesive and mature experience..

So yeah, a great follow up with great production values and satisfying songs that will keep me company for a while!
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Nachtmerrie on January 25, 2020, 07:41:14 AM
I gave the album a first spin while working at home yesterday. While it was on a medium volume there really wasn't anything that really drew my attention.

Second spin today in the car. There are some interesting intro's and solo's (mainly Bumblefoot) but apart from that there's nothing that really stands out. Most of songs sound quite the same to me (especially the vocals). But the main negative thing for me are the vocal lines, so uninspiring that it almost sounds like a joke. Same for Yeah's that keep coming back in every song.

I'm seeing them live in a few weeks and I'm sure I will like the show but I won't go back to the albums. Just mediocre considering the amount of skills and experience in the band.

Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: RodrigoAltaf on January 25, 2020, 10:42:12 AM
https://youtu.be/zdgAzzX3CX4
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Adami on January 25, 2020, 11:17:57 AM
Good lord, that sounded awful and boring.



Have they considered just letting Ron do all the vocals?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Architeuthis on January 25, 2020, 11:32:11 AM
Sounded ok to me.  An audience shot video does not do it justice, but they sounded tight and the vocals are on key. It looks like they need a more creative lighting guy though.. The Tom Sawyer section is nice!
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Adami on January 25, 2020, 11:39:51 AM
What? The vocals sounded immensely off key a lot of the time. I admit I skipped around cause it was boring, but I heard a lot of off vocals.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: MirrorMask on January 25, 2020, 12:27:41 PM
It looks like they need a more creative lighting guy though..

Yeah, YouTube suggested another video of God of the Sun, what's with playing the whole show with the lights "on"? it's such a turn off for the atmosphere.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: emtee on January 25, 2020, 12:28:32 PM
Stage felt a little odd for some reason. Weirdly lit...bright. Also MP's tech was fixing some issues
so it was a weird video in some ways. Still, it was decent to watch.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: MinistroRaven on January 25, 2020, 12:34:49 PM
I guess the light's guy forgot all the lights in his truck.
It looks like a high school band playing, no lights, fog, anything
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on January 25, 2020, 12:43:13 PM
Maybe the cut some costs?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Madman Shepherd on January 25, 2020, 12:44:58 PM
Wow, even the band seemed not at all into it. Was starting to regret not buying tickets for the upcoming show but after seeing that I guess I'm content with my decision.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Architeuthis on January 25, 2020, 12:45:35 PM
What? The vocals sounded immensely off key a lot of the time. I admit I skipped around cause it was boring, but I heard a lot of off vocals.
YouTube has a way of making things sound worse. Everything gets compressed to mp3 or whatever and most people listen on their crappy sounding mobile phones.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Adami on January 25, 2020, 12:49:17 PM
Or he just sounds meh.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Madman Shepherd on January 25, 2020, 01:22:30 PM
What? The vocals sounded immensely off key a lot of the time. I admit I skipped around cause it was boring, but I heard a lot of off vocals.
YouTube has a way of making things sound worse. Everything gets compressed to mp3 or whatever and most people listen on their crappy sounding mobile phones.

This is also very true. Regardless, Jeff was noticeably struggling. No offense meant, he has a tough job.

 I'm sure Mike is very understanding of the difficulties vocalist endure.  :lol
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: devieira73 on January 25, 2020, 06:36:55 PM
https://youtu.be/zdgAzzX3CX4
Very cool! Interesting that, where inserted the Tom Sawyer bit, that part of Wither to Black already had a Tom Sawyer reference in the lyrics and keyboards.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: pcs90 on January 25, 2020, 09:26:29 PM
What? The vocals sounded immensely off key a lot of the time. I admit I skipped around cause it was boring, but I heard a lot of off vocals.
YouTube has a way of making things sound worse. Everything gets compressed to mp3 or whatever and most people listen on their crappy sounding mobile phones.

Yes...but it can't make vocals go out of tune.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: SystematicThought on January 25, 2020, 09:55:04 PM
Those videos make it look like they are playing in a high school gymnasium, with the bright light—seems kinda thrown together. Saw a lot of techs on the stage too.

That was kinda depressing to watch.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: jadiggerdt on January 26, 2020, 04:33:11 AM
Omg Soto was really shit at burn cover.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: JayOctavarium on January 26, 2020, 07:16:58 AM
Some of these comments on JSS are borderline nasty. If people really really hate this band (be it one member or all), and can't really say anything nice, ya'll shouldn't say anything at all. Would anyone of you say these things to the members' faces?


Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Adami on January 26, 2020, 07:20:50 AM
Some of these comments on JSS are borderline nasty. If people really really hate this band (be it one member or all), and can't really say anything nice, ya'll shouldn't say anything at all. Would anyone of you say these things to the members' faces?

So all comments should be praise and nothing else? I feel like that doesn't lead to anything good for the artist if all the feedback they get, despite quality, is praise.


Would I tell Jeff to his face that his vocals were off key? Sure.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: TAC on January 26, 2020, 07:39:37 AM
Some of these comments on JSS are borderline nasty. If people really really hate this band (be it one member or all), and can't really say anything nice, ya'll shouldn't say anything at all. Would anyone of you say these things to the members' faces?

So, these forums are not professional reviews. These are groups of friends talking about music and what they like and don't like. Just because I can walk out of a concert and turn to a buddy and say, "Gee that sucked" doesn't mean I'm a dick if I won't say it to their face.

To me, I consider these private conversations, and I know there's an untruth to that, as our comments can be viewed publicly.

But I too, can get frustrated by people simply being negative for what seems like negativity's sake.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: gzarruk on January 26, 2020, 07:55:52 AM
Some of these comments on JSS are borderline nasty. If people really really hate this band (be it one member or all), and can't really say anything nice, ya'll shouldn't say anything at all. Would anyone of you say these things to the members' faces?

I think there's a line, and some might have crossed it, but I don't think most people here are saying bad stuff just for the sake of it.

As for me, I really dislike some of their songs and JSS isn't my kind of vocalist at all... BUT, I do enjoy the other songs (I kept 5 from each album, 10 total) and will keep looking forward for more music from them in the future. However, there's some pretty obvious flaws I can't just ignore.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: JayOctavarium on January 26, 2020, 08:09:07 AM
Some of these comments on JSS are borderline nasty. If people really really hate this band (be it one member or all), and can't really say anything nice, ya'll shouldn't say anything at all. Would anyone of you say these things to the members' faces?

So all comments should be praise and nothing else? I feel like that doesn't lead to anything good for the artist if all the feedback they get, despite quality, is praise.


Would I tell Jeff to his face that his vocals were off key? Sure.

I doubt you'd be incredibly rude or vulgar about it though.


And I have issues with the album and I also think it's far from Jeff's greatest performance, but there is a line of nastiness people are crossing..
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Stadler on January 26, 2020, 09:09:03 AM
I'm sorry if this is mean, I certainly do not mean it to be personal, just my observation, but...

The verse was playing and I thought "this is a high school band, no energy, vocals that probably sounded good in the rehearsal hall but don't translate into a live setting..." then Jeff stopped, went back, and the energy picked up tenfold during the instrumental section.  I think there's something to that, honestly.

As for Burn, I know that song inside and out - performed it on stage myself, in the Jeff Scott Soto role - and, well, I've seen it done better (though not, alas, by me or my band).   I get that Ron isn't singing a full set (though he did with Asia, did he not?) but his spots are on key and in time (if not mixed high enough).  I would have expected better from Jeff.   

(And nothing screams "ROCK GODS!" than flipping down your reading glasses, ala Derek at about 2:44.  :). I say that to be funny, not petty or critical, as it has no bearing whatsoever on the performance itself.)
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: IgnotusPerIgnotium on January 26, 2020, 09:53:43 AM
Sometimes during a live show everything can go wrong, I mean there are some things just out of your control..but other things are..and watching some of the new videos from the band for me at  least is hilarious and kinda sad at the same time..but I remember they had issues from their first tour..check out their first live from the pacifica theater and you'll see what I'm talking about..then they most definitely improved as they played more often..but is very weird why they have the same problems again..I mean is that a part of the show too? :P
Anyway hopefully they'll sort things out..for their sake!
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ChuckSteak on January 26, 2020, 09:59:19 AM
Some of these comments on JSS are borderline nasty. If people really really hate this band (be it one member or all), andc can't really say anything nice, ya'll shouldn't say anything at all. Would anyone of you say these things to the members' faces?
I remember when I followed this thread when the first album was released and it was the same thing back then. I guess people don't like Portnoy's attitude towards DT on social media over the last decade and developed a kind of grudge against him (or anything he does) where they just enjoy complaining and criticizing. I mean, it is ok if you don't like the band and all.. but then I wonder why does this thread has over 170 pages..  :lol

And I watched that youtube clip. I saw nothing sooooo shitty or off-key about the vocals or wrong with the lights. I haven't listened to the new album yet and honestly don't feel like it because the first one wasn't anything special.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Madman Shepherd on January 26, 2020, 11:03:32 AM
Some of these comments on JSS are borderline nasty. If people really really hate this band (be it one member or all), andc can't really say anything nice, ya'll shouldn't say anything at all. Would anyone of you say these things to the members' faces?
I remember when I followed this thread when the first album was released and it was the same thing back then. I guess people don't like Portnoy's attitude towards DT on social media over the last decade and developed a kind of grudge against him (or anything he does) where they just enjoy complaining and criticizing. I mean, it is ok if you don't like the band and all.. but then I wonder why does this thread has over 170 pages..  :lol

And I watched that youtube clip. I saw nothing sooooo shitty or off-key about the vocals or wrong with the lights. I haven't listened to the new album yet and honestly don't feel like it because the first one wasn't anything special.

Oh here we go. I think this thread is so long because most of us WANT to like it. Some of us do. I'm a relatively big critic of Portnoy's behavior but I like SOA more than the average person and it just so happens I haven't liked any of his post-DT output. I can think of a guy who is probably Portnoy's biggest critic on this board that loves the Neal Morse Band so there goes your theory about people complaining about anything he does.

Interestingly, one of Portnoy's biggest defenders ISN'T a fan of SOA. Maybe that has contributed to this thread being so long. There's a lot of diverse opinions.

There's even somebody that doesn't seem to like SOA yet saw nothing wrong with the most boring lighting rig in the history of concerts.

Seriously, if you can look at that clip and think there is nothing wrong with basically having the stage fully illuminated with a few colored lights here and there, I don't know what to say. Maybe you could argue that lighting is irrelevant but man, those lights were bland as hell.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on January 26, 2020, 11:22:34 AM
I haven't watched but are we judging the lightning by the first show of the tour only? If so, we should give some benefit of doubt that there could have been issues or just something with that venue. Someone mentioned techs on the stage, could have been issues for all this and not something to rip the band on. If this is the norm for their show, then rip ahead cause that is a bit odd although as a video guy, white light on the band is a blessing for me
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Architeuthis on January 26, 2020, 11:35:32 AM
Good point, it could have just been technical difficulties. Also this is just based on one song, I'm sure they have better lighting than this throughout the show.   
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Madman Shepherd on January 26, 2020, 11:42:58 AM
I haven't watched but are we judging the lightning by the first show of the tour only? If so, we should give some benefit of doubt that there could have been issues or just something with that venue. Someone mentioned techs on the stage, could have been issues for all this and not something to rip the band on. If this is the norm for their show, then rip ahead cause that is a bit odd although as a video guy, white light on the band is a blessing for me

I think you're right. A checked out videos from a few other dates and the lights still aren't great but not nearly as bad. They probably don't have a lighting guy and just have the venue handle it. That is typical for a lower budget tour and given the problems they seem to admit having, along with the size of venues, I bet they have a skeleton crew.



I saw that their Salt Lake City show got moved to a bigger venue, which is good, but I looked at the venue they were booked in originally and it appeared to be the size of a bar, which is not so good. I wonder if their conversations about whether the band should even continue had something to do with stuff like this. It's one thing to be booked in smaller places and not make as much money but it's another thing to think of how the presentation of your band suffers and opens them up to criticism like a lot of us our doing here.

Good point, it could have just been technical difficulties. Also this is just based on one song, I'm sure they have better lighting than this throughout the show.   

 almost the whole rest of the show is posted on youtube. It's not any better.

 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Architeuthis on January 26, 2020, 11:52:48 AM

    :facepalm:    dohhh!!!
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: jadiggerdt on January 26, 2020, 12:28:59 PM
t seems like a very low budget tour. what is the size of the clubs they play 200-400 att? The clips from youtube  it feels like a bulgarian cover band. Seems strange. Love all of them but Jss doesnt fit att all. Will check them out in mars but so far. Ehhh
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: SystematicThought on January 26, 2020, 01:50:55 PM
Someone mentioned techs on the stage, could have been issues for all this and not something to rip the band on.
That was me. I didn’t mean it as a critique of the band really, but I guess it’s been awhile since I’ve seen techs noticeably onstage. Obviously they probably can’t be like Rush and have stage hands in costume, and this was a smaller stage. It just didn’t seem very professional and by that I mean one of the most prolific drummers in music, a well known bass player and guitar player. It didn’t feel like it was that kind of band playing onstage.

They also didn’t really seem to be having any fun. Hard to tell with Derek. He never looks like he’s having fun. I wouldn’t normally care that much, but with how nasty Derek was in the beginning and MP telling fans to fly to the shows if they aren’t near them, it feels like it’s all thrown together.

Like others have said, I think many wanted to like this band, that’s why we discuss it like we do. It just doesn’t feel like they are delivering.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on January 26, 2020, 02:18:32 PM
Yea, seeing techs on stage is usually a sign of them actively trying to fix something during the performance.  I've seen it many times but never for reasons other than that.  First show of the tour is bound to run into issues, some noticeable some not. 

Also, about Derek... I watched my blu-ray Friday night and during the end of Coming Home when the crowd is at the highest point being the end of the last song, they have a shot of Derek and he looks so mad.  I'm assuming at this point he just has a bad case of resting bitch face, but I had to pause it for a second to just laugh at how ridiculous it looks when probably the biggest crowd and biggest moment of their tour and he couldn't even smile or look at the crowd.  Part of me wants to boo him if he doesn't smile at the show I go to  :lol  I don't expect these guys to be happy by anymeans as the success of this band just doesn't seem to be there, but at least try to pretend to be having fun because it's really hard for me as a fan to enjoy it if the musicians themselves clearly don't look like it.

The worst concert I saw last year was Skid Row and it was because of that reason.  It looked like no one besides their new singer wanted to be there. No smiles, no energy, no engagement.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Architeuthis on January 26, 2020, 02:24:11 PM
I just got the new album and listened to it last night.  I need to hear it a few more times to give it a fair shake.
I made the mistake of listening to the blu-ray version of d/t and the new Nightwish concert blu-ray (Decades) before M.M.X.X.   (d/t and Nightwish sound amazing).
  Is it just me or does the new SOA album sound a bit muddy?  It seems like the sound spectrum is thin with lots of mids. I found myself maxing out the treble and bass to compensate.
It kind of reminds me of the production of Vapor Trails..
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: gzarruk on January 26, 2020, 04:18:35 PM
Is it just me or does the new SOA album sound a bit muddy?  It seems like the sound spectrum is thin with lots of mids. I found myself maxing out the treble and bass to compensate.

Same as the first album. I think it's due to Derek, Ron and Billy all playing in the same frequency range.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: PixelDream on January 26, 2020, 04:32:36 PM
Wow, people are really hating on that live vid. Almost as if JSS is just some talentless hack. I don’t know him as a singer prior to his SOO stuff and I’m def not a fanboy of this band but geez.. he was struggling a bit with the high notes at the beginning but as for the rest he sounded like a pretty steady power rock singer. Nothing wrong with it. I do agree about the lightning though, but whatever.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Peter Mc on January 26, 2020, 05:47:18 PM
Yeah, I do feel like JSS is being made a bit of a scapegoat for this band not being very good. Almost like his vocal is the reason that the songs are bad.  Don’t get me wrong, you can not like his voice, that’s a matter of taste. I personally can’t listen to Flying Colors because I can’t stand the singer’s voice.  The lack of melody though is not down to the vocal, Jeff can hold a tune, he is an experienced, accomplished singer who’s sang with much bigger bands than this. The lack of any memorable melody is due to the material he is having to sing and the clear lack of strong songwriting ability in the band.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Adami on January 26, 2020, 05:55:49 PM
I don’t think many of us are saying that Jeff’s voice is the only reason we don’t like the band. The song writing isn’t very strong. But his voice also isn’t great in this band. And a lot of these live videos he sounds pretty off to me and others. If they got a different singer and changed nothing else, I still wouldn’t like it. That doesn’t eliminate my criticism of JSS not having a very good voice anymore.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Ben_Jamin on January 26, 2020, 06:09:16 PM
I don’t think many of us are saying that Jeff’s voice is the only reason we don’t like the band. The song writing isn’t very strong. But his voice also isn’t great in this band. And a lot of these live videos he sounds pretty off to me and others. If they got a different singer and changed nothing else, I still wouldn’t like it. That doesn’t eliminate my criticism of JSS not having a very good voice anymore.

His voice fits fine. Its the songwriting and melodies the producers have him singing.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Adami on January 26, 2020, 06:19:31 PM
I disagree that his voice fits just fine. It does at times but really doesn’t at others. And he struggles with even moderately high notes live.


Why are you all assuming JSS isn’t writing the vocals? From what I’ve read, he’s doing the bulk (though not all) of the vocal writing.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Peter Mc on January 26, 2020, 06:49:50 PM
I’m not assuming that. He may well be writing the vocal melodies himself. I’m just saying that the lack of melody is more down to the writing than the vocalist. He can sing a melody, you don’t get asked to be in Journey if you can’t sing melodic songs. I’ve not seen any live videos, have they released stuff or are we just doing the usual thing of judging based off poor quality cellphone recordings?  Andrea Bocelli would probably sound useless on a cellphone live recording.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Madman Shepherd on January 26, 2020, 07:04:55 PM
I disagree that his voice fits just fine. It does at times but really doesn’t at others. And he struggles with even moderately high notes live.


Why are you all assuming JSS isn’t writing the vocals? From what I’ve read, he’s doing the bulk (though not all) of the vocal writing.

He wrote all the lyrics on this last one but in one of the videos about one of the songs, Derek mentions that he had a melody he wanted Jeff to sing. On the first album there was also some disagreements between Derek and Jeff regarding vocals.

I think that all shows that Derek has a lot to do with the vocal melodies. Perhaps Jeff still is responsible for the majority but Derek has his say and as producer I think he has the final say.

I place a lot of the blame on Derek.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Adami on January 26, 2020, 08:20:49 PM
I place considerable blame on JSS. Seems like a super fun guy. That doesn’t make him a better vocalist in 2020.

Speaking of, when JSS was asked to be in journey, how long ago was that? I’m not saying his voice was never great. I’m just saying it’s not currently great.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Madman Shepherd on January 26, 2020, 09:02:54 PM
I place considerable blame on JSS. Seems like a super fun guy. That doesn’t make him a better vocalist in 2020.

Speaking of, when JSS was asked to be in journey, how long ago was that? I’m not saying his voice was never great. I’m just saying it’s not currently great.

Except I agree Psychotic Symphony wasn't an exceptional vocal performance, yet DIVAK which was released with the Soto band came out one year earlier and his vocal performance was excellent. Doubtful his voice became that uninspired in a years time.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Adami on January 26, 2020, 09:08:59 PM
You may very well be right. I have heard the album you’re talking about.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Peter Mc on January 26, 2020, 09:49:42 PM
I place considerable blame on JSS. Seems like a super fun guy. That doesn’t make him a better vocalist in 2020.

Speaking of, when JSS was asked to be in journey, how long ago was that? I’m not saying his voice was never great. I’m just saying it’s not currently great.

It was a while ago, immediately before Arnel, not sure how long ago that is but it wasn’t when he was a young guy, he was already past doing the big high screaming notes. His voice may have lost a little more power since then and he’s undoubtedly not as good as he was in his heyday but he can still hold a tune if he’s given a decent tune to sing.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Anguyen92 on January 26, 2020, 10:02:22 PM
I saw Jeff Scott Soto twice with Trans-Siberian Orchestra two years in a row and both times, I thought he was a solid standout vocalist in the songs he sang.  Singing well with good energy and getting people into it without needing to try-hard.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Volante99 on January 26, 2020, 10:46:47 PM
I think JSS has a fine voice; but as others have stated it just doesn’t fit with the band. He would be better placed in a power metal band or something...prog metal doesn’t seem to be his element.

At the end of the day the songs just aren’t there. I would put most of the blame of that on Derek and Ron, neither of whom I’ve been convinced so far in their careers can write.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on January 27, 2020, 06:22:40 AM
Why are you all assuming JSS isn’t writing the vocals? From what I’ve read, he’s doing the bulk (though not all) of the vocal writing.

From wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MMXX_(album) (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MMXX_(album))

Quote
Vocalist Jeff Scott Soto wrote all the lyrics, with Sherinian helping him with some of the melody lines.[2] He commented that he admired Soto's bluesy voice, which he thought contrasted with the more operatic vocals of other progressive metal bands.[11]

Also states MP, DS, and BF wrote the album together.  While it's confirmed JSS wrote the lyrics, it leaves the idea of the melodies and direction of his singing was still up to DS/MP (as producers and writers).  I don't think it means JSS isn't to blame, but his performances outside of SOA from what I have read (I never heard of him until SOA and only have heard some W.E.T. songs that he sounds fine on) are usually very positive. 

He's doing a Queen tribute set at Progpower this year.  I have no idea how that is going to go over. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Architeuthis on January 27, 2020, 07:04:54 AM
Is it just me or does the new SOA album sound a bit muddy?  It seems like the sound spectrum is thin with lots of mids. I found myself maxing out the treble and bass to compensate.

Same as the first album. I think it's due to Derek, Ron and Billy all playing in the same frequency range.
Psychotic Symphony sounds easier on the ears to me, whereas M.M.X.X. sounds too compressed lacking dynamic range.   Even the drums seem to be fighting for a space sonically speaking.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Stadler on January 27, 2020, 07:55:27 AM
Some of these comments on JSS are borderline nasty. If people really really hate this band (be it one member or all), andc can't really say anything nice, ya'll shouldn't say anything at all. Would anyone of you say these things to the members' faces?
I remember when I followed this thread when the first album was released and it was the same thing back then. I guess people don't like Portnoy's attitude towards DT on social media over the last decade and developed a kind of grudge against him (or anything he does) where they just enjoy complaining and criticizing. I mean, it is ok if you don't like the band and all.. but then I wonder why does this thread has over 170 pages..  :lol


I can't speak for anyone other than myself, but this doesn't apply to me.  I've been (I think wrongly) accused of being an MP fanboy, often providing alternative rationales for what he's said/done, and I wasn't nearly as bothered by Derek's tweets (they're TWEETS, that says it all for me) about DT or SOA.   Having said that, I'm not really jumping for joy over SOA.  I totally understand it's their artistic vision, but it's not connecting with me. That's on me, and I accept that.  I do, though, feel it's okay to share WHY I think it's not connecting, and while I'm not out to hurt Jeff, or make him a scapegoat, I find my interest materially wanes when he's singing.  It's pretty much as simple as that. 

There are plenty of bands I listen to where the singer is singing what someone else wrote, and they elevate it, and where the singer is adding to the mix and not cutting the mustard, so I'm not sure it matters who is "writing" the material, it still can be elevated.  Robert Plant is probably the best example of that.   
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: gzarruk on January 27, 2020, 08:21:18 AM
There are plenty of bands I listen to where the singer is singing what someone else wrote, and they elevate it, and where the singer is adding to the mix and not cutting the mustard, so I'm not sure it matters who is "writing" the material, it still can be elevated.  Robert Plant is probably the best example of that.

I agree. To give another example of this (though the opposite case), I can say I consider myself a Fates Warning fan. I'm not a diehard fan, I don't know their whole catalog and I don't listen to them too often, but when I do, I enjoy their songs and think Jim Matheos is a phenomenal songwriter. Having said that, I absolutely hate John Arch's vocals, I just cannot stand listening to the guy sing for more than a couple minutes at best, and think his vocal lines have very little melody in them. Because of that, I completely ignore their first 3 records, John's EP and the two Arch/Matheos albums. Does that mean the material is weak and that Arch would do a better job if the writing was stronger? Definitely not, as Jim is a great songwriter, it's the vocalist who makes these songs unlistenable to me.
(No disrespect meant to John Arch, this is just my personal opinion.)
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: jadiggerdt on January 28, 2020, 12:27:35 AM

It seems to me that progreport constantly gives top score on Portnoy's project. A review must be constructive. Seems to me that this is bought and paid :)
https://progreport.com/concert-review-sons-of-apollo-at-the-roxy-los-angeles-ca-1-25-20/
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: w_marano on January 28, 2020, 04:50:42 AM

It seems to me that progreport constantly gives top score on Portnoy's project. A review must be constructive. Seems to me that this is bought and paid :)
https://progreport.com/concert-review-sons-of-apollo-at-the-roxy-los-angeles-ca-1-25-20/

Agreed.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: MoraWintersoul on January 28, 2020, 06:35:11 AM
It's probably not bought and paid, because there is zero money in prog journalism  :lol however, some outlets are less critical than others, like Prog Report. I don't really blame them though, you should see what kind of garbage people (including musicians!!) send you in private messages when you say "this album was good, ergo it gets a 7, because it was good." They behave as if you killed their hamster with a rusty shovel, buried him in some tomato sauce and served them the hamster bolognese on their wedding anniversary.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Stadler on January 28, 2020, 06:39:02 AM
It's probably not bought and paid, because there is zero money in prog journalism  :lol however, some outlets are less critical than others, like Prog Report. I don't really blame them though, you should see what kind of garbage people (including musicians!!) send you in private messages when you say "this album was good, ergo it gets a 7, because it was good." They behave as if you killed their hamster with a rusty shovel, buried him in some tomato sauce and served them the hamster bolognese on their wedding anniversary.

That seems oddly specific....  :) :) :)
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: gzarruk on January 28, 2020, 06:41:40 AM

It seems to me that progreport constantly gives top score on Portnoy's project. A review must be constructive. Seems to me that this is bought and paid :)
https://progreport.com/concert-review-sons-of-apollo-at-the-roxy-los-angeles-ca-1-25-20/

Definitely not bought, but they do seem to have a very heavy bias towards his work.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: TAC on January 28, 2020, 06:57:19 AM
The way I feel about these sites and these kind of reviews is that they are really just someone who is trying to grow a site. Maybe if there's a history of good reviews, then perhaps they can land an artist interview or something, and gain some sort of legitimacy because of it. To me, I never read these. To me, they are tainted.

If I want a record or concert review, I simply hit up DTF for it. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on January 28, 2020, 07:02:29 AM
If you praise them, then they share it and you get exposure.  If you shit on it, you get threats.  Seems like as a journalist, it's not very good to give a poor review. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: axeman90210 on January 28, 2020, 09:47:48 AM
There's probably a "I need to remain on good terms so I can get/continue to get interviews/backstage access/stories/etc..." aspect to things. It's an issue that plagues film critics and journalists as well.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Architeuthis on January 28, 2020, 10:23:09 AM
I believe the review is sincere. I was quite blown away when I saw SOA in Seattle on their first tour!  Their new album is growing on me with each listen. It takes a while for me to absorb complex music like this before I can give an honest review. That's why I'm still not ready to give a review, besides my earlier comments about the production. I can get passed all that once I get into the content of the music.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: gmillerdrake on January 28, 2020, 10:44:50 AM
I was quite blown away when I saw SOA in Seattle on their first tour!  Their new album is growing on me with each listen.

I won't use 'blown away' but I did have a pretty good time at that show. Outside of DS looking bored and wanting to be anywhere but there....the rest of the band sounded GREAT and were awesome to watch. they put on a heck of a show. Very cool live experience. Live Youtube vids are so hard to go by...so I don't give too much credit to those vids one way or the other. I know SOA had a killer live show when I saw them.

And to your other point....while I still think the bulk of the music is just pretty bland and a rehash of previous musical contributions from each member.....it's not a terrible listen. Good musicianship, and while I can't think of or remember any riffs/lyircs or lines after a dozen listens or so....I can still listen to it and at least enjoy it. (other than Desolate July which I skip every time)
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bosk1 on January 28, 2020, 10:46:48 AM
Outside of DS looking bored and wanting to be anywhere but there....

And that isn't new either.  Same last tour.  In fact, at the show I was at, he looked like he actively wanted to be somewhere else.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on January 28, 2020, 10:59:00 AM
Outside of DS looking bored and wanting to be anywhere but there....

And that isn't new either.  Same last tour.  In fact, at the show I was at, he looked like he actively wanted to be somewhere else.

Same with the Plovdiv blu-ray I watched over the weekend, so noticeable how uninterested he looks.  It's a huge turn off from their live show which is otherwise very good.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Architeuthis on January 28, 2020, 10:59:20 AM
I noticed that too about Derek, and my encounter with him after the show wasn't anything to talk about.  :lol
 The rest of the band was relaxed and had a lot of fun.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: RodrigoAltaf on January 28, 2020, 11:22:40 AM
There's probably a "I need to remain on good terms so I can get/continue to get interviews/backstage access/stories/etc..." aspect to things. It's an issue that plagues film critics and journalists as well.

Yes.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Max Kuehnau on January 28, 2020, 01:20:52 PM
There's probably a "I need to remain on good terms so I can get/continue to get interviews/backstage access/stories/etc..." aspect to things. It's an issue that plagues film critics and journalists as well.

Yes.
I believe you, but: No offence Rodrigo, but doesn't that "unwritten rule" (as it were) that you just confirmed bother you? Because it certainly would bother me personally.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: RodrigoAltaf on January 28, 2020, 01:30:52 PM
There's probably a "I need to remain on good terms so I can get/continue to get interviews/backstage access/stories/etc..." aspect to things. It's an issue that plagues film critics and journalists as well.

Yes.
I believe you, but: No offence Rodrigo, but doesn't that "unwritten rule" (as it were) that you just confirmed bother you? Because it certainly would bother me personally.

It does bother me, and there have been occasions when I had to ask the editor to stop meddling with my reviews. There were changes made that I took issue with - obviously, to make it seem like the album in question was better than the review described - and other times where I offered to do reviews with a lot of criticism and it was declined. The last one I remember was Malmsteen´s Blue Lightning, which I thought was pretty bad. I said "I can write a review about this album in my sleep - there´s a lot to criticize, a thing or two worthy of praise, and surely lots to talk about". The response I got was "no, publishing something like this won´t help us at all". I do understand where the editor is coming from, but at the same time there´s an ethical dilemma that I can´t escape from. For now, this is the only vehicle I write for, and if there´s another one that would take more honest reviews, I´d surely consider writing for them.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Setlist Scotty on January 28, 2020, 01:31:49 PM
I believe the review is sincere.
It is. I know Kyle personally (DT fan from the WDaDU-era), so I can vouch for him. I could be wrong, but I do not believe that Kyle actually works for the website or is a regular contributor. However, I do think he's friends with Roie (the guy who runs the website), so that might be why his review is there. In fact, he is the same guy that will be Rob Webster's co-host for the second episode of Full Circle, whenever Rob gets around to publishing it.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: RodrigoAltaf on January 28, 2020, 01:36:37 PM
I believe the review is sincere.
It is. I know Kyle personally (DT fan from the WDaDU-era), so I can vouch for him. I could be wrong, but I do not believe that Kyle actually works for the website or is a regular contributor. However, I do think he's friends with Roie (the guy who runs the website), so that might be why his review is there. In fact, he is the same guy that will be Rob Webster's co-host for the second episode of Full Circle, whenever Rob gets around to publishing it.

I´m not friends with him on Facebook, but did notice a lot of his posts on the Neal Morse, MP, SOA, Transatlantic and TWD forums, so yeah, he´s definitely a MP fan, and I do believe his review is sincere. Nothing wrong with enjoying SOA - I do like the band a lot as well, and can´t wait to come back to Toronto for the show on Sunday night!
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Setlist Scotty on January 28, 2020, 01:37:35 PM
On a separate note, Rodrigo, your PM inbox is full! 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: RodrigoAltaf on January 28, 2020, 01:40:25 PM
On a separate note, Rodrigo, your PM inbox is full!

Drop me an email: rodrigo.altaf@gmail.com
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bosk1 on January 28, 2020, 01:50:18 PM
For what it's worth, anecdotally, I have been asked to do a couple of reviews that I ultimately turned down myself, just because, after listening to the albums in question a couple of times, I knew that my review was going to be very negative because I just didn't like or connect with what I was hearing.  It's a lot easier for me to do something like that since I just do this occasionally for fun, and it isn't my career that I get paid for and need to support my family.  But the other side of that is that, unless there is a VERY good reason to criticize an album, such as its lyrics promoting something that is truly morally objectionable, I think it is poor form to be overly critical of an artist for putting out art that I simply do not like according to my own tastes.  When their art is their livelihood, and they have put their hearts into the creative process, I don't think it's my place to stand in a role where I can do any sort of material harm to the public's perception of their art.  That's my subjective opinion, anyway.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on January 28, 2020, 02:04:16 PM
I pretty much agree Bosk. I don't think I'd be happy if someone told me to write something more positive when my honest opinion was negative if it was all meant for fun, but I can understand it more from a professional standpoint.

I can be critical of bands here because it's a discussion forum and I feel I can share my honest opinion but I won't ever talk poorly about bands I make youtube videos of or when I comment on social media.  There's already too much of that, I'd rather focus on the positive in public space like that where a positive attitude towards the band might actually help the band vs. the non stop negativity on social media.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: KevShmev on January 28, 2020, 02:17:19 PM
Okay, but what good are professional reviews if they are all positive and no one wants to do any that are negative?  Not saying anyone should do a negative review for fun or for sport, but reviews don't mean a whole lot if they are all positive.

And I definitely agree with the earlier sentiment about prog reviewers.  Prog sites and fans are very protective about the genre, so the biggies of the genre are almost always gonna get reviews that are, at the very least, positive. 

In the case of Mike Portnoy, given his personality, I am sure most reviewers know by now that he is the type who would cut you off from any future interviews if you gave him a negative review, and probably advise others close to him to do the same, so they probably feel almost obligated to give anything he does a good review.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: pcs90 on January 28, 2020, 02:23:12 PM
Indeed. These types of reviews mean little to me since they are usually positively biased. I don't want to read negative reviews for the sake of reading negative reviews, but I do want to know what the reviewer actually thinks of the album and not a sugar-coated version.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on January 28, 2020, 02:27:50 PM
Honestly album reviews in general mean very little to me.  Only my own ears can tell if I will like music or not.  Same for other artistic reviews.  It's up to the viewer/listener's interpretation if they will enjoy it.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: emtee on January 28, 2020, 02:40:26 PM
I pretty much agree with Bosk, except for cases in which there is virtually no redeeming quality.

The last Yes album would be an album where there is no way I could write anything positive.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Rob24 on January 28, 2020, 03:07:30 PM
Honestly album reviews in general mean very little to me.  Only my own ears can tell if I will like music or not.  Same for other artistic reviews.  It's up to the viewer/listener's interpretation if they will enjoy it.

Exactly. And I think this is also pretty obvious.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Stadler on January 28, 2020, 03:13:39 PM
I pretty much agree with Bosk, except for cases in which there is virtually no redeeming quality.

The last Yes album would be an album where there is no way I could write anything positive.

The cover is nice... wait, no, no it isn't.  You're right, carry on.  :)
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: axeman90210 on January 28, 2020, 09:09:29 PM
When I used to write beer reviews I would refrain from doing so for a style that I don't care for, but if the brewer made something that should've been in my wheelhouse and I didn't enjoy it I had no problem writing a bad review.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: IDontNotDoThings on January 28, 2020, 10:46:04 PM
I pretty much agree with Bosk, except for cases in which there is virtually no redeeming quality.

The last Yes album would be an album where there is no way I could write anything positive.

The cover is nice... wait, no, no it isn't.  You're right, carry on.  :)

Not to derail the thread, but I could write a mostly positive Heaven & Earth that's completely honest. I don't get the hate for it.

Unless you're talking about Return Trip, in which case, yeah :tdwn
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: SystematicThought on January 28, 2020, 10:52:32 PM
Cool to see that the show in Salt Lake sold out the 300 capacity venue and was upgraded to a 700 capacity venue. That’s got to feel good for them (well, Derek probably is still bored by it, but for the other 4 it’s great!)
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Architeuthis on January 29, 2020, 03:05:45 AM

 Good musicianship, and while I can't think of or remember any riffs/lyircs or lines after a dozen listens or so....I can still listen to it and at least enjoy it. (other than Desolate July which I skip every time)
And just think, if Desolate July was a new Ozzy Osbourne song, it would likely be a big hit all over the radio right now. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Bentower on January 29, 2020, 03:39:30 AM
On the subject of Derek looking bored, I don't know if it's that or if he's trying to look tough and rock 'n roll.

That ascending-descending riff in Resurrection Day is pretty cool and probably the best part of the album for me. It'd been nice if they'd put in more catchy things like that.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ChuckSteak on January 29, 2020, 05:58:46 AM
He looked the same when I saw him live with Black Country Communion, back in 2012. I think it is just how he is (bored in whatever band he is in).
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on January 29, 2020, 06:35:21 AM
I haven't watched my old DT 5 Years in a Livetime DVD in a loooong time, I should again and see how Derek looked back then.  I remember thinking he brought a different vibe to the band, but I don't remember the "bored" look.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: The Walrus on January 29, 2020, 07:30:10 AM
Maybe he's just upset nobody's let him bring his lava lamps back on stage.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on January 29, 2020, 07:35:00 AM
 :justjen That's what's missing from SOA  :lol
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: goo-goo on January 29, 2020, 07:57:04 AM
About Derek

-I believe addressed his demeanor during shows in the last Sonic Perspectives interview with Rodrigo from this forum. IIRC, he looks that way because he is thinking about the song. He doesn't have an iPad like Jordan to see the notes he has to play.

I personally don't have a problem with the way Derek plays. I'd rather have a good show with the proper notes and stuff and not a Derek missing parts here and there.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on January 29, 2020, 08:05:11 AM
I'd rather him miss a note and look like he enjoys what he does.  I can't imagine he truly is as annoyed as he looks otherwise why would he be doing this for a living, but he really needs to understand his negative vibe he gives off really is a turn off and should try to understand his demeanor is important in a live setting.  Doing a comparison to JR just makes me dislike him even more.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Stadler on January 29, 2020, 08:10:58 AM
He looked the same when I saw him live with Black Country Communion, back in 2012. I think it is just how he is (bored in whatever band he is in).

"Looking bored" and "being bored" are two wildly different things.   
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Adami on January 29, 2020, 08:15:17 AM
He looked the same when I saw him live with Black Country Communion, back in 2012. I think it is just how he is (bored in whatever band he is in).

"Looking bored" and "being bored" are two wildly different things.

Is that what your wife tells you?

 :biggrin:
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Stadler on January 29, 2020, 08:16:25 AM
He looked the same when I saw him live with Black Country Communion, back in 2012. I think it is just how he is (bored in whatever band he is in).

"Looking bored" and "being bored" are two wildly different things.

Is that what your wife tells you?

 :biggrin:

Ha! It's how we've lasted this long.  :) :) :)
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Adami on January 29, 2020, 08:16:56 AM
He looked the same when I saw him live with Black Country Communion, back in 2012. I think it is just how he is (bored in whatever band he is in).

"Looking bored" and "being bored" are two wildly different things.

Is that what your wife tells you?

 :biggrin:

Ha! It's how we've lasted this long.  :) :) :)

Well I'm glad somethings lasting long.



Sorry I'm done.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Kwyjibo on January 29, 2020, 08:17:31 AM
I saw Derek with Dream Theater three or four times and he never looked bored. And I saw him with Billy Idol, he didn't have to play a lot, but he didn't look bored there either. So if he is now, something has changed.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: JayOctavarium on January 29, 2020, 08:34:46 AM
The only time I ever saw Derek live was at the Black Label Society "Unblackened" show in LA in 2013. He seemed to be having a blast, especially during Zakk's little acoustic shred interludes, where he basically followed him note for note on piano.

I think he may just be bored with SOA, BCC, etc.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on January 29, 2020, 08:49:41 AM
But... how are you bored with a band that you are a founding member of?  Like, I can understand if this tour is not doing well to feel that way, but even on the first tour?  on the bands live album?  During the meet and greet at progpower? 

¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: The Walrus on January 29, 2020, 08:56:47 AM
But... how are you bored with a band that you are a founding member of?  Like, I can understand if this tour is not doing well to feel that way, but even on the first tour?  on the bands live album?  During the meet and greet at progpower? 

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

(https://i.imgur.com/zctgk6g.jpg)
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: goo-goo on January 29, 2020, 08:57:17 AM
Doing a comparison to JR just makes me dislike him even more.

No. He didn't mentioned JR by name. I added that since JR uses an iPad to follow the music. I should have said "paraphrasing" DS from Rodrigo's interview...

I really don't know what the big fuss about DS being bored is. What about JM during the MP days? He does look more excited without MP in the band. Usually MP likes to be the center of attention and then you also have JSS....so there's at least two guys trying to pump up the crowd.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: JayOctavarium on January 29, 2020, 09:00:20 AM
I see nothing wrong with being bored.

But it does kind of kill the vibe of a live show if it feels like someone is just going through the motions.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on January 29, 2020, 09:02:31 AM
Doing a comparison to JR just makes me dislike him even more.

No. He didn't mentioned JR by name. I added that since JR uses an iPad to follow the music. I should have said "paraphrasing" DS from Rodrigo's interview...

I really don't know what the big fuss about DS being bored is. What about JM during the MP days? He does look more excited without MP in the band. Usually MP likes to be the center of attention and then you also have JSS....so there's at least two guys trying to pump up the crowd.

Myung is not very interesting to watch either for me, but he doesn't look negative, he looks neutral really.  DT's live show would be much better if Myung/JP/JBL were a bit more animated, that certainly seems to be a big negative from many people who see DT live. DS vibe is very negative in my eyes and actually makes me dislike his performance because it makes me feel like he doesn't want to be there. JM doesn't really make me feel that way, but he does bore me a bit tbh.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: gmillerdrake on January 29, 2020, 09:45:12 AM
DT's live show would be much better if Myung/JP/JBL were a bit more animated, that certainly seems to be a big negative from many people who see DT live. DS vibe is very negative in my eyes and actually makes me dislike his performance because it makes me feel like he doesn't want to be there. JM doesn't really make me feel that way, but he does bore me a bit tbh.

I've seen DT for TA tour, the IAW anniversary tour and 2x for the Scene's tour....and Myung has been more animated than he's been in years IMO, that's not saying much though  :lol. JP and JLB actively attempt to 'get into' the performance and show. The one show I saw of SOA...DS looked utterly bored and almost mad that he had to be playing. Maybe he just concentrates hard....maybe he's just a huge dick....who knows, but the rest of his band mates were REALLY into it and put on a great performance. DS looked annoyed.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: gzarruk on January 29, 2020, 09:58:23 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/zctgk6g.jpg)

 :rollin :rollin :rollin
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on January 29, 2020, 10:02:48 AM
DT's live show would be much better if Myung/JP/JBL were a bit more animated, that certainly seems to be a big negative from many people who see DT live. DS vibe is very negative in my eyes and actually makes me dislike his performance because it makes me feel like he doesn't want to be there. JM doesn't really make me feel that way, but he does bore me a bit tbh.

I've seen DT for TA tour, the IAW anniversary tour and 2x for the Scene's tour....and Myung has been more animated than he's been in years IMO, that's not saying much though  :lol. JP and JLB actively attempt to 'get into' the performance and show. The one show I saw of SOA...DS looked utterly bored and almost mad that he had to be playing. Maybe he just concentrates hard....maybe he's just a huge dick....who knows, but the rest of his band mates were REALLY into it and put on a great performance. DS looked annoyed.

I have a picture of Bumblefoot from the NYC show, he looked right at my camera and smiled.  https://www.instagram.com/p/Bi93M0VAjKP/ (https://www.instagram.com/p/Bi93M0VAjKP/) It's a huge contrast to DS.  That's engagement and even if he is dying inside, it shows he's trying hard to make others happy as an entertainer.  It worked for sure, that show won me over as being a fan of him.  I told him so when I met him after he played with Asia this past summer and then he smiled and took a selfie with me https://www.instagram.com/p/By00qovgao4/ (https://www.instagram.com/p/By00qovgao4/)  THAT is how you make someone who never knew who you were into a big fan.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Fritzinger on January 29, 2020, 10:08:01 AM
I pretty much agree with Bosk, except for cases in which there is virtually no redeeming quality.

The last Yes album would be an album where there is no way I could write anything positive.

The cover is nice... wait, no, no it isn't.  You're right, carry on.  :)

Not to derail the thread, but I could write a mostly positive Heaven & Earth that's completely honest. I don't get the hate for it.

Unless you're talking about Return Trip, in which case, yeah :tdwn

Please tell me what you find good about this poorly sounding, poorly played and poorly composed album  :omg:
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Architeuthis on January 29, 2020, 10:11:13 AM
When I think about it,  what is a keyboardist really supposed to do to enhance the performance,  start headbanging or running around on stage?  I think he's probably stuck in the confines of keyboard land and has a lot of notes to concentrate on. I mean, what can he really do to put on a good show?  I don't think he's much of a key-tar guy.
 I think he just likes to put on his leather jacket and try to look cool, knowing he's the most ripped keyboard player in the business.  :chill
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on January 29, 2020, 10:13:50 AM
When I think about it,  what is a keyboardist really supposed to do to enhance the performance,  start headbanging or running around on stage?  I think he's probably stuck in the confines of keyboard land and has a lot of notes to concentrate on. I mean, what can he really do to put on a good show?  I don't think he's much of a key-tar guy.
 I think he just likes to put on his leather jacket and try to look cool, knowing he's the most ripped keyboard player in the business.  :chill

But, who thinks he looks cool? He certainly doesn't.  And what could he do?  Smile is the easy answer, but if that's too difficult to do while concentrating, then just don't look like you hate everything and everyone.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: gmillerdrake on January 29, 2020, 10:14:21 AM
When I think about it,  what is a keyboardist really supposed to do to enhance the performance,  start headbanging or running around on stage?  I think he's probably stuck in the confines of keyboard land and has a lot of notes to concentrate on. I mean, what can he really do to put on a good show?  I don't think he's much of a key-tar guy.
 I think he just likes to put on his leather jacket and try to look cool, knowing he's the most ripped keyboard player in the business.  :chill

totally get it.....but, you can still 'look' interested. JR and others fist pump a bit.....and display emotions. DS literally has the most disappointed look on his face the entire time. It's very off putting. Maybe he just has resting dick face? But he could make an effort to at least fake a smile or two or some type of positive interaction. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: The Walrus on January 29, 2020, 10:15:01 AM
When I think about it,  what is a keyboardist really supposed to do to enhance the performance,  start headbanging or running around on stage?  I think he's probably stuck in the confines of keyboard land and has a lot of notes to concentrate on. I mean, what can he really do to put on a good show?  I don't think he's much of a key-tar guy.
 I think he just likes to put on his leather jacket and try to look cool, knowing he's the most ripped keyboard player in the business.  :chill

You can do a lot to look engaged as a keyboardist. Derek himself used to have those stands where he'd play with the boards tipped with their backs angled at the ground; I always thought that was a cool look and comfortable for the wrists to boot. Wonder why he stopped doing that (just from what I've seen). JR has his awesome hifalutin swivel stand, I've seen Vikram Shankar of Redemption do the same. Vadim Pruzhanov (ex-Dragonforce) used to jump up and down behind his boards like a kid jacked up on sugar. Yeah you can't do sick guitar stunts or twirl your sticks but you can still engage :) Derek I think just likes to look serious and in the moment.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bosk1 on January 29, 2020, 10:26:43 AM
When I think about it,  what is a keyboardist really supposed to do to enhance the performance,  start headbanging or running around on stage?  I think he's probably stuck in the confines of keyboard land and has a lot of notes to concentrate on. I mean, what can he really do to put on a good show?  I don't think he's much of a key-tar guy.
 I think he just likes to put on his leather jacket and try to look cool, knowing he's the most ripped keyboard player in the business.  :chill

You can do a lot to look engaged as a keyboardist. Derek himself used to have those stands where he'd play with the boards tipped with their backs angled at the ground; I always thought that was a cool look and comfortable for the wrists to boot. Wonder why he stopped doing that (just from what I've seen). JR has his awesome hifalutin swivel stand, I've seen Vikram Shankar of Redemption do the same. Vadim Pruzhanov (ex-Dragonforce) used to jump up and down behind his boards like a kid jacked up on sugar. Yeah you can't do sick guitar stunts or twirl your sticks but you can still engage :) Derek I think just likes to look serious and in the moment.

And even without the "gimmicks," there is still a lot.  As Cram said:
And what could he do?  Smile is the easy answer, but if that's too difficult to do while concentrating, then just don't look like you hate everything and everyone.

Even without a cool spinny, tilty keyboard stand, you can still smile and try to look like you're having a good time.  Even without Jordan's specialized stand and his various mobile keyboards, he has always smiled.  When he wasn't playing or wasn't playing a part that demanded absolute concentration on the keys, he would (and still does) turn to the audience and smile.  When playing something that did require more concentration, he would smile.  Between songs or between parts when there was nothing going on, he would do other things: nod at the audience, fit pump, clap, etc.  Again, his look and demeanor never screamed out, "I wish I were anywhere but here!" as Derek's appears to.  And I take Derek at his word that that isn't what he is intending.  But when your business is entertaining, you need to be aware of how your audience perceives you.  And the easy comparisons to some other projects he has done where he has done those things to convey that he is engaged and glad to be there are do not help his case.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: The Walrus on January 29, 2020, 10:27:45 AM
I'm serious, maybe he just needs a lava lamp or a nice rug under his feet again.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Architeuthis on January 29, 2020, 10:39:12 AM
I'm serious, maybe he just needs a lava lamp or a nice rug under his feet again.
Or perhaps "the soup",  whatever that may be..  :justjen
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Dublagent66 on January 29, 2020, 10:47:34 AM
Last Saturday night's show at the Roxy on Sunset Blvd was pretty cool.  Small venue but according to Jeff, they like it that way.  Still, there were too many people in such a small space and it needed to be a little more wide open.  Everyone did a solo and they did a small tribute to Neil Peart and Rush with a portion of Tom Sawyer.  Oh yeah, and I think Derek smiled at least once.  :lol
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on January 29, 2020, 10:54:31 AM
Last Saturday night's show at the Roxy on Sunset Blvd was pretty cool.  Small venue but according to Jeff, they like it that way.  Still, there were too many people in such a small space and it needed to be a little more wide open.  Everyone did a solo and they did a small tribute to Neil Peart and Rush with a portion of Tom Sawyer.  Oh yeah, and I think Derek smiled at least once.  :lol

Prove it!  :lol but glad you had fun.  Regardless of any negativity I might have, I'm excited to see them in a week or so.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Setlist Scotty on January 29, 2020, 11:49:50 AM
Haven't seen SoA live yet, but judging by your comments, I have to ask: how different is the way DS is on stage with someone like Neil Peart? Neil was also known for being extremely focused on his playing and didn't look like he was having fun, yet I think the majority of people have no problem giving him a "pass". Why is it different with DS?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: SystematicThought on January 29, 2020, 12:03:58 PM
Because Derek spent a lot of time ripping on DT and their lack of stage presence, cheesiness, use of technology, and likes to brag about his rockstar energy and larger than life persona. Then you see him on stage and he looks bored and judging from comments here, he’s rude in meet and greets.

Neil never claimed to be larger than life and a rockstar. Derek does and thus doesn’t get a pass for being a bored dude playing keyboards onstage.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Dublagent66 on January 29, 2020, 12:14:35 PM
Last Saturday night's show at the Roxy on Sunset Blvd was pretty cool.  Small venue but according to Jeff, they like it that way.  Still, there were too many people in such a small space and it needed to be a little more wide open.  Everyone did a solo and they did a small tribute to Neil Peart and Rush with a portion of Tom Sawyer.  Oh yeah, and I think Derek smiled at least once.  :lol

Prove it!  :lol but glad you had fun.  Regardless of any negativity I might have, I'm excited to see them in a week or so.

Enjoy!  You won't be disappointed! :tup
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Madman Shepherd on January 29, 2020, 01:15:43 PM
Holy crap. This much discussion about whether Derek looks too bored? He is blessed/cursed being on stage with 4 other people who are very engaging. If they all just stood there, that would be a problem.

Tony Iommi is my favorite guitarist of all time. He doesn't do much on stage and I find his live playing engaging as hell. It helps that the last time I saw him there was this guy named Dio running all over the place and engaging the crowd.

Derek is fine in this regard.

I cant believe I'm going to say this but, "Leave Derek alone!!!" :'(
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: MirrorMask on January 29, 2020, 01:20:36 PM
Tony Iommi is my favorite guitarist of all time. He doesn't do much on stage and I find his live playing engaging as hell. It helps that the last time I saw him there was this guy named Dio running all over the place and engaging the crowd.

Iommi has this thing that he's so legendary that just his mere presence makes him look cool. Like Rob Halford, he gets away with staying completely still or with moving like a robot.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: MoraWintersoul on January 29, 2020, 01:21:47 PM
Madman, I think people are just surprised about him looking bored because that's new, and because "looking bored" is much harsher than simply being unanimated, and yet unbiased people keep saying that. JP and JMX are looking much less animated than 20 years ago, for example, but they never look bored. Derek was always such a CHARACTER. I hope he's not in pain or going through something he's hiding :(
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on January 29, 2020, 03:38:38 PM
Holy crap. This much discussion about whether Derek looks too bored? He is blessed/cursed being on stage with 4 other people who are very engaging. If they all just stood there, that would be a problem.

Tony Iommi is my favorite guitarist of all time. He doesn't do much on stage and I find his live playing engaging as hell. It helps that the last time I saw him there was this guy named Dio running all over the place and engaging the crowd.

Derek is fine in this regard.

I cant believe I'm going to say this but, "Leave Derek alone!!!" :'(

I'm not sure you are understanding the point, that at least I am making as it is not about just standing there.  It's the emotion displayed by him.

Let me start by saying I was not a DT fan when DS was in the band, so my knowledge of him was not much at all.  I enjoyed his work in DT and while not having watched the DVD he is on in a long time, I remember thinking he brought a different vibe to the band but thought it was cool, not the bored/disengaged vibe I get now.  (I mentioned earlier today I want to rewatch that).  So SOA was really my first DS experience which started off with some not so nice tweets to turn me off.  Now it didn't bother me as badly as some here, but it did set the tone.  I forgave and saw them in NYC, which was an awesome show and made me actually like the band, however, DS demeanor was the only negative of the show.  It was noticeable.  Not because he just stood there and played, it's specifically his facial expressions.  He could have resting bitch face.  I gave him the benefit of the doubt.  Come prog power I got to meet the whole band, EVERYONE was awesome and engaging until I got to the end of the line and DS didn't even look me in the eye or say anything.  I felt really turned off by him at that point.  I don't really remember watching him much at PP but the band was great as a whole again.  Now since then, I've seen others here have similar experiences as me which makes me think it wasn't just a me thing and my benefit of doubt about resting bitch face was erased when I actually met him.  He turned me off big time as a fan.  I wrote about it here before.  Then last weekend I watched my plovdiv blu-ray for the first time since I got it and noticed again how poorly engaged he was and wrote about it here again (specifically during Coming Home at the highest point at the end of the show).  Maybe I am too harsh, but the meet and greet thing really soured me on him specifically.  More so than the live performances and more so than the tweets.  That's just me though.  If he just smiled a bit it would erase a lot of my dislike, but probably not all of it at this point to be honest.  I feel like I'm going to be watching him like a hawk next week  :lol
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Peter Mc on January 29, 2020, 04:04:52 PM
Haven't seen SoA live yet, but judging by your comments, I have to ask: how different is the way DS is on stage with someone like Neil Peart? Neil was also known for being extremely focused on his playing and didn't look like he was having fun, yet I think the majority of people have no problem giving him a "pass". Why is it different with DS?

Because Neil is a drummer, not one of the two soloists in the band maybe? He’s expected to put on a bit of a show whereas a drummer is not.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ytserush on January 29, 2020, 08:06:45 PM
Honestly album reviews in general mean very little to me.  Only my own ears can tell if I will like music or not.  Same for other artistic reviews.  It's up to the viewer/listener's interpretation if they will enjoy it.

Exactly.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: pcs90 on January 29, 2020, 08:25:10 PM
Now since then, I've seen others here have similar experiences as me which makes me think it wasn't just a me thing and my benefit of doubt about resting bitch face was erased when I actually met him.  He turned me off big time as a fan.  I wrote about it here before.

Since this is a huge thread... Do you have a link to the details of what happened here?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Cool Chris on January 29, 2020, 09:21:52 PM
...resting bitch face...

Is this a thing?

Checking...

It is, it's got its own Wikipedia page! I have never heard of it before!
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Madman Shepherd on January 29, 2020, 10:11:30 PM

Now since then, I've seen others here have similar experiences as me which makes me think it wasn't just a me thing and my benefit of doubt about resting bitch face was erased when I actually met him.  He turned me off big time as a fan.  I wrote about it here before.

That's fair and I remember reading your experience. It is a big bummer. If we were to take that bias out, I would still say this whole thing is a bit of an overreaction. When you add that in, with his overall attitude since the band began, I can understand it.

It's funny because in the song by song interviews, he seems really psyched. I wish that attitude would carry over more. It would help the average fan get more excited.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Ben_Jamin on January 29, 2020, 10:18:54 PM
...resting bitch face...

Is this a thing?

Checking...

It is, it's got its own Wikipedia page! I have never heard of it before!

You serious.

I saw a lot of that for ProgPower
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Podaar on January 30, 2020, 06:23:55 AM
As some one who suffers from chronic RBFS, I'm really feeling empathy for Derek's struggles on stage. Remember, sometimes the cure comes from the sympathy of strangers. Be kind, and whenever possible, cross your eyes and stick your tongue out. That should help.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on January 30, 2020, 07:13:40 AM
Now since then, I've seen others here have similar experiences as me which makes me think it wasn't just a me thing and my benefit of doubt about resting bitch face was erased when I actually met him.  He turned me off big time as a fan.  I wrote about it here before.

Since this is a huge thread... Do you have a link to the details of what happened here?

Nah, it's somewhere on this forum, maybe not even in this thread but I have little desire to dig it up.  It's not much more than what I've already explained here though other than including my interactions with the rest of the band (which was great, including MP who was as cool as everyone had always said he was)
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Anxiety35 on January 30, 2020, 08:38:16 AM
I hadn't listened to Distance Over Time by DT in a while. I put it in during a 3 hour drive for work the other day. I'll have to say, I think it's a better album than the new Sons of Apollo. Not that it's a competition, but after giving MMXX a decent amount of listens, overall DOT is better as far as I'm concerned.

For Derek's face, I remember him having that face when he was with DT. I don't consider it resting bi**h face, I just think he's really concentrating on what he's doing. If you follow him on Instagram, he posts vids of him playing at his home studio and his face is the same.

Someone asked earlier in this thread why Derek doesn't lean his keyboards forward anymore. He was asked that on Instagram and his response was that he was tired of leaning over to play.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: IgnotusPerIgnotium on January 30, 2020, 01:32:04 PM
Someone asked earlier in this thread why Derek doesn't lean his keyboards forward anymore. He was asked that on Instagram and his response was that he was tired of leaning over to play.

Just imagine trying to tilt the Hammond B3..that would be something else!  ;D
Seriously now let the man be..everyone loves to hate him as it seems..the only thing I'd like from him to improve is something that it's in his hands..literally..and that's playing his parts as he should! That's constructive criticism for ya'll!  :D
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bosk1 on January 31, 2020, 08:32:53 AM
Haven't seen SoA live yet, but judging by your comments, I have to ask: how different is the way DS is on stage with someone like Neil Peart? Neil was also known for being extremely focused on his playing and didn't look like he was having fun, yet I think the majority of people have no problem giving him a "pass". Why is it different with DS?

I think Cram and others have answered it well already, but I'll chime in as well with similar thoughts.  It isn't just that he's focused.  It's that it goes beyond that, and he looks pissed about having to be there, and doesn't engage the audience at all even when he's NOT playing and being focused.  But it's not just "failing to radiate a positive vibe"; it's more of him actively radiating a negative vibe.  And while that's an area where I might usually give a guy the benefit of the doubt, other things factor in that remove that benefit of the doubt, such as seeing him berating his tech openly on stage, eating his pre-show meal out in the open to be seen by fans while actively looking down or away when those fans make eye contact, and being fairly rude and brusque in the presence of fans.  Those things together do not paint a flattering picture.  And these things, as pointed out, from the guy who chose this tactic to describe himself:
Because Derek spent a lot of time ripping on DT and their lack of stage presence, cheesiness, use of technology, and likes to brag about his rockstar energy and larger than life persona.
Can't speak for anyone else, but that's where I'm coming from and why he seems wildly different than a guy like the one you gave in your example.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: gmillerdrake on January 31, 2020, 08:35:34 AM
Pretty sure Bosk just gave the perfect description of why DS catches the flak he does for his stage persona. Particularly the phrase 'actively radiating a negative vibe' That along with the other examples listed above pretty much sums it up.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on February 01, 2020, 09:32:18 AM
Just scooped up my ticket for Thursday, under face value on stubhub by about 15 bucks (when you include fees)  :metal also got myself a super cheap room in NYC, no idea why they are so cheap that night (I've never paid this little before) but works well for me to get to work on Friday.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: axeman90210 on February 01, 2020, 10:38:21 PM
I'll see you there on Thursday :metal
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: RodrigoAltaf on February 02, 2020, 03:45:19 AM
I'll see them tonight in Toronto!
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Architeuthis on February 02, 2020, 11:14:53 AM
I can't believe there are only thirteen U.S. dates before heading to Europe.  Is there any chance of a second leg in the states, or is it gonna turn into a Winery Dogs cycle after that?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: gzarruk on February 02, 2020, 11:52:20 AM
I can't believe there are only thirteen U.S. dates before heading to Europe.  Is there any chance of a second leg in the states, or is it gonna turn into a Winery Dogs cycle after that?

MP said that depending on how well this leg went they'll do another one or not (up to promoters).
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Architeuthis on February 02, 2020, 12:28:47 PM
I sure hope so!  It would be nice if they could land a opening spot for a big band that are playing arenas or amphitheaters. SOA put on such a fun and engaging show, they deserve some recognition. It would also be cool if they could co-headline with somebody like Symphony X,  Halestorm, or Nightwish here in the states.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: SystematicThought on February 02, 2020, 02:34:55 PM
Haven’t they said they aren’t interested in opening for anyone? It would be cool to see them open for an established metal group
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: axeman90210 on February 02, 2020, 03:20:05 PM
Just the opposite I think, they'd welcome it but haven't received any offers from bigger bands.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Adami on February 02, 2020, 03:21:30 PM
I wonder how much of it is money. As an opening band, they’re not going to picked up by a stadium band. Likely a bigger than them but still relatively small band. They’d make way less opening.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: RodrigoAltaf on February 02, 2020, 06:13:49 PM
MP answered about that on the interview I did with him:


https://www.blabbermouth.net/news/sons-of-apollo-didnt-want-to-mess-with-its-good-chemistry-on-new-album-mmxx/
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: MoraWintersoul on February 03, 2020, 01:26:05 PM
This reminds me of something crappy today's metal scene. There's really not a lot of "we're taking this band on tour because we like them even though they're on a different label" anymore. You'd think a lot of bands would jump at the chance to take SoA on tour with them - they come with an inbuilt audience, they're seasoned professionals, they're musicians' musicians (so they all individually have fans in those bands Mike mentioned). But the bands they're interested in opening for don't think about these things, and the folks who do haven't given them an invitation. Why should they, when there is a bunch of up-and-comers on every label who are willing to pay for an opening slot all year round for any band that's even vaguely in their wheelhouse?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: RodrigoAltaf on February 05, 2020, 04:46:39 AM
The Toronto show was incredible. I haven't had this much fun in a concert in a long time. Much better than the show of the first tour. And honestly, more spontaneous than the last DT show I saw.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: The Walrus on February 05, 2020, 05:26:26 AM
MP answered about that on the interview I did with him:


https://www.blabbermouth.net/news/sons-of-apollo-didnt-want-to-mess-with-its-good-chemistry-on-new-album-mmxx/

"Honestly, none of us want to be out there in clubs playing for our existing fanbase"

Wait... isn't Mike the one who said if you want more tour dates, you gotta travel to come see them? How can you expand to a wider audience if you say things like that  :lol
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: TAC on February 05, 2020, 05:41:23 AM
MP answered about that on the interview I did with him:


https://www.blabbermouth.net/news/sons-of-apollo-didnt-want-to-mess-with-its-good-chemistry-on-new-album-mmxx/

"Honestly, none of us want to be out there in clubs playing for our existing fanbase"

Wait... isn't Mike the one who said if you want more tour dates, you gotta travel to come see them? How can you expand to a wider audience if you say things like that  :lol


Yeah, that is a loaded statement for sure.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on February 05, 2020, 10:25:56 AM
I'll see you there on Thursday :metal

Beers tomorrow?  I've got to see how early I can get out of work for sure, but if I can make it, I'd be down.

Also, for those who have seen the show, what time does Tony McAlpine come on?  8pm?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: RodrigoAltaf on February 05, 2020, 11:42:24 AM
I'll see you there on Thursday :metal

9pm in Toronto. His show was great, and having Aquiles Priester with him was a good strategy - he's a fan of Tony's, and it shows. The band that played before Tony is horrible, and clearly they payed for their slot on this tour. Horrible riffs, and not on par with the other players on the same bill. The only thing worth noting about their set is that they have two left handed guitar players, something I don't think I've ever seen in any other band.

Beers tomorrow?  I've got to see how early I can get out of work for sure, but if I can make it, I'd be down.

Also, for those who have seen the show, what time does Tony McAlpine come on?  8pm?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on February 05, 2020, 11:46:48 AM
There's another opening band? I didn't even know, and then SOA goes on when?  9PM Tony time seems late. But honestly works out better for me, I'll have no issue catching his full set then. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: RodrigoAltaf on February 05, 2020, 01:12:44 PM
SOA started at 10pm.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on February 05, 2020, 02:40:32 PM
damn thats a late show... definitely glad I'm staying over in the city tomorrow night, thanks for the info Rodrigo  :tup
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Stadler on February 05, 2020, 03:05:59 PM
Between the weather - we're getting icy rain and snow tomorrow - and the time, I'm probably out for tomorrow.  Bummer.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ytserush on February 05, 2020, 06:02:52 PM
Maybe he's just upset nobody's let him bring his lava lamps back on stage.

I wonder what happened to that guy.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: axeman90210 on February 05, 2020, 06:11:32 PM
I'll see you there on Thursday :metal

Beers tomorrow?  I've got to see how early I can get out of work for sure, but if I can make it, I'd be down.

Also, for those who have seen the show, what time does Tony McAlpine come on?  8pm?

I'm down :metal With a little luck I'll be out of work at 5:30, 6pm at the latest, and then it takes me 25 minutes to get there. The website says doors at 7 and show at 8, and it sounds like the first band before Tony is worth seeing.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: RodrigoAltaf on February 05, 2020, 07:03:50 PM
damn thats a late show... definitely glad I'm staying over in the city tomorrow night, thanks for the info Rodrigo  :tup

The set times may vary depending on the venue. Most Toronto venues publish the set times on the day of the show, which helps.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on February 05, 2020, 07:17:57 PM
damn thats a late show... definitely glad I'm staying over in the city tomorrow night, thanks for the info Rodrigo  :tup

The set times may vary depending on the venue. Most Toronto venues publish the set times on the day of the show, which helps.

Somewhere said 7pm and somewhere said 8pm (stubhub where I bought the ticket vs. ticketmaster), which is why I asked... but I could have just went right to the venue's website which says 7pm doors, 8pm show subject to change.

I'll PM you Bill
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on February 07, 2020, 08:10:36 AM
Really awesome show last night  :metal :metal

The Portnoys were in the house, saw Mike with his wife and daughter walk in (the guy next to me ran to him and got a pic as he walked into the venue).  I just watched the family come with Dad, pretty cool.  Chatted with the guy who did the recent MP interview, nice guy.  Anyway, the band sounded awesome and Gramercy Theater holds about 500 and was pretty packed for them.  The highlights were definitely Bumblefoot's guitar playing again.  He was just so awesome.  Very fun to watch him play and he makes it look fun, plus... I think he was the better singer over JSS.  Honestly, thought JSS sounded off.  I thought maybe he was losing his voice (listening to my videos... sadly confirms he sounds a bit weak in his voice).  MP and Billy were their usual awesome selfs, having seen that due a few times with SOA and TWD, they just got the rhtyhm section down really well.  Both are fun to watch live.  Derek... I actually enjoyed him.  Yes, he has the resting bitch face, but honestly seemed just fine with "being into it".  I didn't focus on him too much, too much talent on one stage, but honestly didn't feel the negativity I had felt before from watching him.  Maybe it's also because I watched from the back?

Hung around after the show with a few guys just BSing.  Only one way in and out of that venue, so slowly they started trickling out. 

Tony MacAlpine:
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EQLkYyQWkAEPDcQ?format=jpg&name=4096x4096)

Billy Sheehan:
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EQLj6fiXsAMeG9d?format=jpg&name=4096x4096)

Bumblefoot:
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EQLjUC1WsAIWZgl?format=jpg&name=medium)

Also got a pick from Ron  :metal JSS came out and maybe it was his manager or something told everyone he needs to save his voice and wanted to just go to the bus.  So I said thanks and he said you're welcome.... and Derek literally ran out and away before anyone could talk to him  :rollin  I didn't see MP, unless he was there until after 1:30am.  Great night for sure

So some videos:

Sons of Apollo - Desolate July (dedicated to David Z and Kobe Bryant) Live @ Gramercy Theater NYC (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6C9vjoT6I9o)

Sons of Apollo - Wither to Black Live @ Gramercy Theater NYC (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YjYUqA5PHk0)

Sons of Apollo - Burn (with Tony MacAlpine) Live @ Gramercy Theater NYC (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hMJ4kUNU4os)

awesome nice to hang with Axeman again, another concert in the books.  I'll have a my full video up later tonight after I get home from work.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Madman Shepherd on February 07, 2020, 08:36:02 AM
Bummer about Jeff's voice.

Even though I've kind of defended Derek's stage presence, its lame of him to not stay and chat and take a few pics. I guess no one is entitled to it, but you would think he'd put more effort into making a good impression since the band hasn't had as much success as I think everyone expected. Just going with what everyone else said about other interactions, is he even into this?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Stadler on February 07, 2020, 08:39:37 AM
Obviously there are countless stories of Mike hanging around after the shows with fans, but over the past three, four years, I've seen Mike about six or seven times, and almost every time he's hung in the venue for a LONG time after the show.   At the SOA show I saw on the last tour, several of us hung for quite a while after the show, and at one point the bouncer - who was the son of one of the people hanging, so I don't think they were running "interference" - said "they look like they're going to be there a while" (and because he was working, he wasn't thrilled with that). 

NYC is by far the best for that "sidewalk meet".  I got to hang with Gary Barden and chat for two cigarettes, and he was an exceedingly nice guy.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bosk1 on February 07, 2020, 08:48:15 AM
As much as Mike is known for spending time with the fans, I wouldn't expect him to if his family were at a show.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on February 07, 2020, 08:53:26 AM
Bummer about Jeff's voice.

Even though I've kind of defended Derek's stage presence, its lame of him to not stay and chat and take a few pics. I guess no one is entitled to it, but you would think he'd put more effort into making a good impression since the band hasn't had as much success as I think everyone expected. Just going with what everyone else said about other interactions, is he even into this?

Honestly, I don't expect any of them to come chat or take pics or do anything besides hit the tour bus.  I'm not entitled to that at all, especially when people pay for meet and greets.  However, it does make difference in terms of winning people over to make an effort to be nice.  Billy honestly didn't seem like he wanted to take pics.  He came out, asked us all to hold on and went to the bus real quick and then kind of asked everyone who wanted a pic to come get one quickly.  He was nice about it, very business like from him and even that is awesome.  Like I said, he doesn't have to do that, and even not wanting to, putting the effort makes a big difference.  I really respect him. 

Also, there wasn't many of us.  Maybe 6 or so.  It was super late and rainy and cold.  Ron was sweet though, with his wife and child.  He's such a super nice guy, I really like him a lot as a musician and person.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: MirrorMask on February 07, 2020, 09:15:06 AM
You make nice points cramx3. I too have your approach, if I meet someone's all for the better, but if I can't, it's not that I consider them entitled assholes. I paid for the show, the chance to chat and / or take a picture is a bonus, I'll never hold a band member responsible for avoiding a crowd, everyone has the right to have a moody day, feeling tired, needing to rest (especially the singer) or whatever.

About "People paid for meet n' greet"... I'm torn about that. It's a revenue, it's an exchange - the band needs support and money and they give you something in return. Do you really need the 37th black shirt with a logo on the front? no, but it's a trade, you shell out some cash, you have a band shirt. Same with the meet n' greet, I don't think bands who do it think of themselves are people worth money to be met - it's once again a trade, you give them money, instead of giving you a shirt they give you some of their time, a guaranteed occasion to say Hi, and a professional photo (or whatever the package entitles).

When I saw Halestorm they did have a meet n' greet, yet I waited around after the show, and they all came out and I took pictures with all of them, heck, I actually kissed Lzzy Hale  ;D on the cheeck, but I did kiss her. For free. While people paid to stand in line and being instructed by the tour manager "One item only, don't shake the hand of the drummer too hard" or whatever.

Anyway, as you said, in the age of social media and selfies let's all remember that meeting the band after the show is a bonus and not an obligation. I'm just happy I basically met anyone I wanted to, and that only the size of the venue sometimes prevented it. I can't remember ever being shunned away on purpouse by a musician.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bosk1 on February 07, 2020, 09:20:28 AM
...heck, I actually kissed Lzzy Hale  ;D on the cheeck, but I did kiss her. For free.

Okay, well this just went from "yeah, this is a perfectly reasonable position" to "creepytown" real quick.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on February 07, 2020, 09:21:25 AM
 :lol

That is pretty awesome though.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: hefdaddy42 on February 07, 2020, 11:24:44 AM
I actually kissed Lzzy Hale  ;D on the cheeck, but I did kiss her. For free.
:metal

 :hefdaddy




:djhef:
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: gzarruk on February 07, 2020, 01:42:13 PM
I actually kissed Lzzy Hale  ;D on the cheeck, but I did kiss her. For free.

You win.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Stadler on February 07, 2020, 02:06:19 PM
Does the restraining order prevent you from seeing a lot of shows?  :)
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Nick on February 07, 2020, 11:32:38 PM
Show tonight in Jim Thorpe was awesome, with the encore in particular standing out.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: MoraWintersoul on February 08, 2020, 05:21:22 AM
...heck, I actually kissed Lzzy Hale  ;D on the cheeck, but I did kiss her. For free.

Okay, well this just went from "yeah, this is a perfectly reasonable position" to "creepytown" real quick.
I'm into appropriate boundaries and all but some people in bands are major huggers, why deny them the opportunity  :heart and this was in Italy, where greeting someone with a kiss on the cheek goodbye or hello is more common than it is in your neck of the woods.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: MirrorMask on February 08, 2020, 05:56:00 AM
Actually all I wanted was a pic of her pretending to kiss me, with her lips near my cheek, but as usual my nervousness got the best of me and all I could say was "Can I get a kiss?", to which she tapped her cheek with the finger in a "go for it" gesture, and so  I did kiss her  :biggrin:

Sorry for having given the impression that I launched forward against her as soon as she came out of the venue kissing her before she had a chance to understand what was going on  :D
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on February 08, 2020, 09:14:26 AM
I kind of thought Bosk was joking, you didn't write that out in a creepy way IMO, but also I believe I've read your story on this forum before but that's so damn awesome.  Also I know little about Lzzy, but she definitely comes off as a cool person that would totally be fine with that (obviously she was). 

Anyway, didn't finish this until late last night, but here's my full video from the NYC show, over an hour of music (audio and video came out excellent  :yarr )

Sons of Apollo & Tony MacAlpine LIVE @ Gramercy Theater NYC 2/6/2020 *cramx3 concert experience* (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W4uDIE_3ans)

also, I love this picture (it's actually a still from my video TBH)

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EQRBcYLX0AELWb2?format=jpg&name=small)
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ProfessorPeart on February 08, 2020, 01:14:16 PM
Got my media book today and wasn't expecting much based on all of the comments. Well, I have almost one listen under my belt and this thing is head and shoulders above the debut. The riffage is there, the songs sound great. I'm really enjoying this record.

I also noticed that the instrumental mixes seem to be slightly different. I did some comparisons and the instrument separation and crispness seem much better on them, at least the 2 I checked out. I usually don't enjoy instrumental versions of lyrical songs but these seem to hold up rather well.

All in all, very satisfied so far.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: TAC on February 08, 2020, 07:40:30 PM
Cram...you are crushing life right now. :metal

I watched the Burn Video. Damn, that was great. Loved Ron singing the Hughes part. perfect.

So nice to see Tony performing.


Great pic with Billy!!
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Evermind on February 09, 2020, 08:33:30 AM
...heck, I actually kissed Lzzy Hale  ;D on the cheeck, but I did kiss her. For free.

Okay, well this just went from "yeah, this is a perfectly reasonable position" to "creepytown" real quick.
I'm into appropriate boundaries and all but some people in bands are major huggers, why deny them the opportunity  :heart and this was in Italy, where greeting someone with a kiss on the cheek goodbye or hello is more common than it is in your neck of the woods.

Shit, I'm not a hugger and a lot of my board-gaming friends (both genders) are, so sure, let's hug, how can I decline.

Also I think I'll go to that SoA show we're getting in March. Not a fan of the band's music but I'm sure I'll find ways to make it fun.

Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: devieira73 on February 09, 2020, 05:39:25 PM
From JSS Facebook:
“ And that's a wrap...for now! Two weeks off to recharge and we take this over to Europe next! Thanks to the greatest band in the land, Sons Of Apollo, our faithful crew, all the local promoters/venues/staff and most of all, everyone who came out in numbers to see us, we surpassed all expectations and that only means you're not getting rid of us anytime soon!! ...”
It seems that it won’t be the only US leg and the band did fine for this tour cicle  :tup
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on February 10, 2020, 08:52:39 AM
The NYC show was packed.  It was about 1/4 the size of the venue they played last time in NYC, but packed none the less is a good thing.  Also, from a few people I spoke to at the show, it was their first time seeing them.

Anyway, coolest thing happened over the weekend.  I posted some videos/pics on my instagram and Bumblefoot not only liked it, but followed me.  Maybe it's because that's the second selfie together he's liked on my instagram. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: axeman90210 on February 10, 2020, 10:02:29 AM
I thought the NYC show the other night was about what I expected. Their material just comes across better live, I was singing the chorus of Goodbye Divinity to myself all weekend. Bumblefoot is still my favorite member of the band to watch on stage. His playing is spot on and his vocals sound great. Mike is his usual showman self, and Billy is very solid. Derek seemed more into it than the first time I saw them. He still kind of has RBF :lol but he seemed to be rocking out a bit more. JSS is a consummate frontman, but his vocals started struggling in the second half of the set. He did rebound nicely for the encore though, which I very much enjoyed (particularly jamming on Burn with Tony Macalpine). Overall definitely glad I went and caught the show, I'd say they're worth seeing if you even kind of enjoy the albums. Personally I'd probably bump MMXX up from a 5 to a 6.5 or 7 after seeing the songs live.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: MinistroRaven on February 24, 2020, 09:53:52 AM
Here it is! The brand new video for "Asphyxiation" from MMXX. Watch the full video here: https://youtu.be/NmyVURsqtFE

The European tour begins this Friday, February 28th in Germany and we can't wait to see you all there.

Full tour dates and tickets here: https://sonsofapollo.com/live/
VIP Packages here: https://sonsofapollo.com/vip-tickets/

Europe 2020
Fri 2/28 Karlsuhe, Germany Crystal Ballroom (Sold Out)
Sat 2/29 Karlsruhe, Germany Crystal Ballroom (Sold Out)
Mon 3/2 Drammen, Norway Union Scene
Tue 3/3 Gothenburg, Sweden Traedgarn
Thu 3/5 Kyiv, Ukraine N.A.U Theatre
Sat 3/7 Moscow, Russia RED
Sun 3/8 St Petersburg, Russia Aurora
Tue 3/10 Pratteln, Switzerland Z7
Wed 3/11 Milan, Italy Live Club
Fri 3/13 Bilbao, Spain Santana 27
Sat 3/14 Barcelona, Spain Razzmatazz 2
Sun 3/15 Madrid, Spain La Riviera
Tue 3/17 Marseille, France Cepac Silo
Wed 3/18 Paris, France Machine du Moulin Rouge
Thu 3/19 London, U.K. Islington Assembly Hall
Fri 3/21 Eindhoven, Netherlands Prognosis Festival
Sun 3/22 Show Brno, Czech Republic Sono
Tue 3/24 Kosice, Slovakia Colosseum
Wed 3/25 Budapest, Hungary Barba Negra

South America 2020
Sat 4/18 São Paulo, Brazil Tom Brasil
Sun 4/19 Rio de Janeiro, Brazil Circo Voador
Tues 4/21 Santiago, Chile Blondie
Thu 4/23 Buenos Aires, Argentina eatro Flores
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: RodrigoAltaf on February 24, 2020, 05:14:59 PM
I don't know where they played in Rio in 2018, but the venue they're playing there on this tour is gorgeous, and fits over 2,000 people.

Anyway, check out this song, the title track of Derek's solo album Blood of the Snake. At 3:45, there's the genesis of God of the Sun: https://youtu.be/MNuMmI0Rof4
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: devieira73 on February 29, 2020, 07:59:22 PM
Nephews of Apollo:
https://www.facebook.com/116713035013014/posts/3865103643507249/?vh=e&d=n
Aaand... Derek is smiling!
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: RodrigoAltaf on March 01, 2020, 10:39:46 AM
Nephews of Apollo:
https://www.facebook.com/116713035013014/posts/3865103643507249/?vh=e&d=n
Aaand... Derek is smiling!

That was all kinds of awesome!!!!!
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Adami on March 01, 2020, 11:42:53 AM
What the HELL was that?!?!

Fun? FUN?!?!?!

I don't want my bands having fun. I don't go there to watch a band act like idiot children. I go to watch them play perfectly. I want them to focus on being 100% accurate to album. I want to watch the band play and sound EXACTLY like the album. I want to stand as still as I can, watching a band mostly stand still focusing completely on technical perfection.

But this? This....ugh....fun? Pathetic!

#MPsucks
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: The Letter M on March 01, 2020, 11:49:03 AM
What the HELL was that?!?!

Fun? FUN?!?!?!

I don't want my bands having fun. I don't go there to watch a band act like idiot children. I go to watch them play perfectly. I want them to focus on being 100% accurate to album. I want to watch the band play and sound EXACTLY like the album. I want to stand as still as I can, watching a band mostly stand still focusing completely on technical perfection.

But this? This....ugh....fun? Pathetic!

#MPsucks

Yeah seriously, why can't more bands be like King Crimson?!

-Marc.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: RodrigoAltaf on March 02, 2020, 08:17:19 AM
What the HELL was that?!?!

Fun? FUN?!?!?!

I don't want my bands having fun. I don't go there to watch a band act like idiot children. I go to watch them play perfectly. I want them to focus on being 100% accurate to album. I want to watch the band play and sound EXACTLY like the album. I want to stand as still as I can, watching a band mostly stand still focusing completely on technical perfection.

But this? This....ugh....fun? Pathetic!

#MPsucks

That's your opinion, right? I simply loved that video!!!!
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Adami on March 02, 2020, 08:19:45 AM
What the HELL was that?!?!

Fun? FUN?!?!?!

I don't want my bands having fun. I don't go there to watch a band act like idiot children. I go to watch them play perfectly. I want them to focus on being 100% accurate to album. I want to watch the band play and sound EXACTLY like the album. I want to stand as still as I can, watching a band mostly stand still focusing completely on technical perfection.

But this? This....ugh....fun? Pathetic!

#MPsucks

That's your opinion, right? I simply loved that video!!!!

Oh sorry man, I was being ironic. I don't like Sons of Apollo, but that was a cool video and wish they focused more on the fun than they currently do.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on March 02, 2020, 08:24:46 AM
Nephews of Apollo:
https://www.facebook.com/116713035013014/posts/3865103643507249/?vh=e&d=n
Aaand... Derek is smiling!

That's pretty awesome.  I first thought that was just like messing around during sound check but nope, they did that during the encore  :lol so cool. 

Also, I saw Derek smiling with a cheeseburger on twitter so he is human after all  :biggrin:
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Adami on March 02, 2020, 08:33:06 AM
Also, while I truly do not like or enjoy the majority of their live release, I recently rewatched the Van Halen cover and enjoyed that a lot.

My opinion? That's what they should do. Fun party rock music and have a live show to match. Making it semi-technical metal that sounds like elements of DT is just not doing much for me, or apparently, a lot of other people. They seem to thrive when having a good fun time. Just do that! The prog market doesn't really have much in that way.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Architeuthis on March 02, 2020, 10:25:05 AM
Also, while I truly do not like or enjoy the majority of their live release, I recently rewatched the Van Halen cover and enjoyed that a lot.

My opinion? That's what they should do. Fun party rock music and have a live show to match. Making it semi-technical metal that sounds like elements of DT is just not doing much for me, or apparently, a lot of other people. They seem to thrive when having a good fun time. Just do that! The prog market doesn't really have much in that way.
I think it's a balancing act. I really enjoy watching them play their more serious musical/prog elements since they do have the chops and are top notch musicians. They also have the ability to be a really fun party type band while playing great music at the same time.  JSS is the perfect frontman for putting on a show and making the audience smile.  I agree about the Van Halen cover, that was all sorts of awesomeness!!
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Adami on March 02, 2020, 10:28:47 AM
Also, while I truly do not like or enjoy the majority of their live release, I recently rewatched the Van Halen cover and enjoyed that a lot.

My opinion? That's what they should do. Fun party rock music and have a live show to match. Making it semi-technical metal that sounds like elements of DT is just not doing much for me, or apparently, a lot of other people. They seem to thrive when having a good fun time. Just do that! The prog market doesn't really have much in that way.
I think it's a balancing act. I really enjoy watching them play their more serious musical/prog elements since they do have the chops and are top notch musicians. They also have the ability to be a really fun party type band while playing great music at the same time.  JSS is the perfect frontman for putting on a show and making the audience smile.  I agree about the Van Halen cover, that was all sorts of awesomeness!!

But you have 100 other bands you can watch to enjoy technical playing. They're not bringing anything new to the table in that sense. But a fun party prog rock band? The market is lacking much of that. So while you'd be losing almost nothing, you'd be gaining a lot. Plus, JSS is really losing a lot of his voice for the more serious technical prog music. It's among the biggest complaints about the band. But him in the audience singing and posing for pictures mid song and moving around like a fun guy? That tends to get good reviews. Again, they all have other bands to focus on the more serious stuff and some more technical stuff. It'd be cool if this could just be fun.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on March 02, 2020, 10:37:56 AM
Also, while I truly do not like or enjoy the majority of their live release, I recently rewatched the Van Halen cover and enjoyed that a lot.

My opinion? That's what they should do. Fun party rock music and have a live show to match. Making it semi-technical metal that sounds like elements of DT is just not doing much for me, or apparently, a lot of other people. They seem to thrive when having a good fun time. Just do that! The prog market doesn't really have much in that way.
I think it's a balancing act. I really enjoy watching them play their more serious musical/prog elements since they do have the chops and are top notch musicians. They also have the ability to be a really fun party type band while playing great music at the same time.  JSS is the perfect frontman for putting on a show and making the audience smile.  I agree about the Van Halen cover, that was all sorts of awesomeness!!

But you have 100 other bands you can watch to enjoy technical playing. They're not bringing anything new to the table in that sense. But a fun party prog rock band? The market is lacking much of that. So while you'd be losing almost nothing, you'd be gaining a lot.

You may have a point, this reminds me of the NYC show where before the encore MP started drumming We Are Family but JSS started singing YMCA.  It was clearly just a fun improv thing that got them both to joke with each other since they weren't doing the same song.  Plus BS dancing  :lol https://youtu.be/hMJ4kUNU4os?t=19 (https://youtu.be/hMJ4kUNU4os?t=19)  But I mean, they can't do a full set of just joking around, that would be a turn off to a lot of people I think so it's a balance.  Also though, i think this is why it's often worth to see MP bands live.  They are still a band that plays off feel and vibe, even with the same set list each night, it's not to a click and it's up to MP to control the tempo and feel.  There's a lot more energy in the room for these shows than DT shows IMO which helps the fun rock show compared to the prog show of a lot of bands. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Adami on March 02, 2020, 10:41:10 AM
I don't think they're shows should be joking around. But the song I referenced was a Van Halen song. A real legit song that isn't goofy and stupid (though it is a bit). But if their original music was more about fun, then their natural energy could carry that show a lot more. If they went more party music than serious dark prog metal music, I think it'd help them a ton.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: hefdaddy42 on March 02, 2020, 11:08:16 AM
I don't think they're shows should be joking around. But the song I referenced was a Van Halen song. A real legit song that isn't goofy and stupid (though it is a bit). But if their original music was more about fun, then their natural energy could carry that show a lot more. If they went more party music than serious dark prog metal music, I think it'd help them a ton.
They should definitely pattern their next album on the music of LMFAO.  Stuff like Party Rock Anthem.

That would be awesome.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Architeuthis on March 02, 2020, 03:15:36 PM
I don't think they're shows should be joking around. But the song I referenced was a Van Halen song. A real legit song that isn't goofy and stupid (though it is a bit). But if their original music was more about fun, then their natural energy could carry that show a lot more. If they went more party music than serious dark prog metal music, I think it'd help them a ton.
True,  they do have all the elements to play really fun party songs without sacrificing the quality of the music. In other words,  best of both worlds. Kind of like Sammy Hagar meets Rush meets VH etc.
 That's kind of why I'd like to see DT write more songs in the vein of Viper King every now and then.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Tick on March 04, 2020, 02:43:38 PM
European dates postponed due to Corona virus. This thing is bringing the world to a halt. Crazy shit.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Max Kuehnau on March 04, 2020, 02:45:16 PM
European dates postponed due to Corona virus. This thing is bringing the world to a halt. Crazy shit.
Musikmesse in Frankfurt was postponed as well because of it.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: MirrorMask on March 04, 2020, 02:51:44 PM
Inevitable at this stage. It was already a wonder the italian date alone wasn't cancelled.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: MinistroRaven on March 04, 2020, 02:52:56 PM
From the band’s FB:

Sons Of Apollo are absolutely devastated to announce that we have no choice but to stop our currently ongoing tour in Europe, Russia and Ukraine and postpone the remaining concerts.

The Corona Virus epidemic has escalated to a point where governments have decided to shut down venues, restrict events, limit flight destinations, with no certainty for us and our promoting partners and that our shows can be guaranteed to happen.

Obviously these European wide emergency precautions have been taken to protect the safety and health of all fans in attendance and artists and crew alike. We do agree that this is a time where health comes first and we will not endanger band & crew, nor fans.

Furthermore, on top of the potential health implications and obstacles, the economical impact and potential financial risk for a tour from overseas like ours has forced us, to take action to limit the possibility of devastating financial losses in such a force majeure situation.

Nobody is more disappointed then we are in this moment...
We are really looking forward to playing each and every show once the situation has cleared, as the momentum and excitement we experienced at our 2 sold out opening nights in Germany and our shows in Norway and Sweden have been by far the best the band has ever experienced!

We will ABSOLUTELY be rescheduling these dates as soon as it is safely possible to return. Details of honoring existing tickets and refunds will be announced locally. Procedures for existing VIP package holders will be announced on SOA website and our social media

Thank you for you understanding and we see you as soon as we possibly can!
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Max Kuehnau on March 04, 2020, 02:58:12 PM
On another (maybe somewhat related) note: How would the epidemic affect DT's upcoming dates in Asia and Australia (April and May respectively) do you think?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on March 04, 2020, 05:18:10 PM
Damn, that really sucks.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Setlist Scotty on March 04, 2020, 07:37:49 PM
On another (maybe somewhat related) note: How would the epidemic affect DT's upcoming dates in Asia and Australia (April and May respectively) do you think?
I had just been thinking about that yesterday. I wouldn't be surprised in the least bit if at least the Asian dates are postponed if not flat out cancelled. Hard to say about Australia at this point, but I could see them scrapping the whole leg of the tour if the costs just to tour those non-Asian shows proved to be too much. I would imagine there will probably be an announcement towards the end of this month if the virus hasn't been brought under control by that time.

It will be interesting to see if the band will still do the last leg of the tour that's in the works. I remember seeing a recent MM interview where he commented that there would be one more leg after the Asia/Australia leg, but that it had not been announced yet. With the virus out of control, I can imagine them just scrapping that last leg and opting to start work on their next album a bit earlier than they originally planned.
 
 
Damn, that really sucks.
I agree. I hope it doesn't take the wind out of their sails since it seems like they were building up some good momentum.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Evermind on March 04, 2020, 09:21:10 PM
Well that takes care of my debate about seeing them. Good thing I didn't buy the tickets for the Saturday gig yet, was waiting for the last moment to decide.

Certainly sucks for the band and the fans.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: MirrorMask on March 06, 2020, 01:03:04 AM
Mike had to make a post to explain better the situation (also from the point of view of the band) among rampant comments about people over reacting, it's all an hysteria and bla bla bla. Geez. Whenever something happens, there's always someone who will think to know better than the actual experts.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on March 06, 2020, 08:16:32 AM
Mike's response made a ton of sense if you ask me.  It really is unfortunate and I'm sure the band would rather play the shows but given the way everyone is reacting here, it doesn't make sense with all that money on the line.  Best to be safe, as much as that sucks.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: gmillerdrake on March 06, 2020, 08:17:47 AM
Mike's response made a ton of sense if you ask me.  It really is unfortunate and I'm sure the band would rather play the shows but given the way everyone is reacting here, it doesn't make sense with all that money on the line.  Best to be safe, as much as that sucks.

It was a perfect response....especially to such silly backlash. But, he laid it all out pretty clearly for anyone who just didn't understand in the first place.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: MoraWintersoul on March 06, 2020, 08:37:34 AM
Yup. At the pace this situation is developing in Europe, I'm currently wondering whether to plan anything in the summer at all.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: goo-goo on March 06, 2020, 10:23:37 AM
Mike's response made a ton of sense if you ask me.  It really is unfortunate and I'm sure the band would rather play the shows but given the way everyone is reacting here, it doesn't make sense with all that money on the line.  Best to be safe, as much as that sucks.

It was a perfect response....especially to such silly backlash. But, he laid it all out pretty clearly for anyone who just didn't understand in the first place.

The Aristocrats bailed out on two or three Italian shows since Italy banned public gatherings and events but those bans were just isolated to Italy when they did that (two weeks ago I believe). I do feel bad for the guys because it's their living and SoA does very well in Europe. It would suck going into each tour date not knowing if the show will be cancelled or not. It's a big risk and that is not considering the health risk.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Anxiety35 on March 07, 2020, 02:54:15 PM
I listened to MMXX again on a long car ride yesterday. I don't know what it is, but SOA doesn't click for me. Not underscoring the musicians and their musicianship at all because they're great players. The songs just don't do it for me overall. There are cool moments but that's it.

I thought an MP and Sherinian collaboration would be cool but it's not what I am liking.

I've given them a good try but I can't say I'd return to SOA. I do wish them the best and success, just not my thing right now.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ytserush on March 14, 2020, 07:40:30 PM
I listened to MMXX again on a long car ride yesterday. I don't know what it is, but SOA doesn't click for me. Not underscoring the musicians and their musicianship at all because they're great players. The songs just don't do it for me overall. There are cool moments but that's it.

I thought an MP and Sherinian collaboration would be cool but it's not what I am liking.

I've given them a good try but I can't say I'd return to SOA. I do wish them the best and success, just not my thing right now.

Still haven't gotten this yet. What a slacker I am.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: gzarruk on July 25, 2022, 10:04:35 AM
Big bump for this thread: Felipe Andreoli (Angra, Kiko Loureiro) has just been announced as Billy Sheehan's fill-in for SOA's South American dates. https://www.facebook.com/FelipeAndreoliPage/videos/575587230771494/

I'm a big fan of Felipe and don't really like Billy too much, so this is (IMO) a much better lineup already :lol Great news for those attending this short tour :metal
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Trav86 on July 25, 2022, 10:11:20 AM
What was the reason for Billy’s absence?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: gzarruk on July 25, 2022, 10:15:01 AM
What was the reason for Billy’s absence?

None announced yet, but I'm sure the band will post a statement shortly. Most likely just scheduling conflicts.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: goo-goo on July 25, 2022, 10:28:56 AM
What was the reason for Billy’s absence?

Travel restrictions.
https://blabbermouth.net/news/billy-sheehan-to-miss-sons-of-apollos-south-american-tour-due-to-travel-restrictions-temporary-replacement-announced

Sheehan is an avowed member of the Church Of Scientology, which does not have an official position on vaccines, according to Time magazine. However, the church emphasizes the "harmful effects of drugs, toxins and other chemicals that lodge in the body and create a biochemical barrier to spiritual well-being," according to its web site. Sheehan has not publicly disclosed whether he has received the COVID-19 vaccine and it is not clear whether his vaccination status is related to his absence from SONS OF APOLLO's South American tour.

According to the official web site of the U.S. Embassy and Consulates in Brazil, proof of vaccine is required for most travelers to Brazil.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: goo-goo on July 25, 2022, 11:43:53 AM
Interestingly enough (or timing on Billy), he just posted pictures on FB with a story behind them.

"Getting all the required vaccinations for a Mr Big trip to India back in 2009. While finishing an EU tour in Germany, we had a very kind medical doctor come backstage and he did a great job inoculating all of us. As a result--I had a fabulous time in India, and came home healthy! Great memories from that trip. I hope I get to visit there again!"

So who knows what the actual reasons are for him not doing SoA in South America.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Grappler on July 25, 2022, 12:13:18 PM
What was the reason for Billy’s absence?

Edit - looks like goo-goo already posted this. 



"Travel restrictions"

https://blabbermouth.net/news/billy-sheehan-to-miss-sons-of-apollos-south-american-tour-due-to-travel-restrictions-temporary-replacement-announced

Quote
Top Link Music manager and concert promoter Paulo Baron commented on Sheehan's absence from the gigs, saying in a statement: "Billy Sheehan will not be able to participate in the tour for personal reasons that he did not want to disclose to me, but that we respect, so both SONS OF APOLLO and I, who am the promoter of the tour, invited Felipe Andreoli to replace the great bassist Billy Sheehan."
-------------------------------
Sheehan is an avowed member of the Church Of Scientology, which does not have an official position on vaccines, according to Time magazine. However, the church emphasizes the "harmful effects of drugs, toxins and other chemicals that lodge in the body and create a biochemical barrier to spiritual well-being," according to its web site. Sheehan has not publicly disclosed whether he has received the COVID-19 vaccine and it is not clear whether his vaccination status is related to his absence from SONS OF APOLLO's South American tour.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on July 25, 2022, 02:13:22 PM
Interestingly enough (or timing on Billy), he just posted pictures on FB with a story behind them.

"Getting all the required vaccinations for a Mr Big trip to India back in 2009. While finishing an EU tour in Germany, we had a very kind medical doctor come backstage and he did a great job inoculating all of us. As a result--I had a fabulous time in India, and came home healthy! Great memories from that trip. I hope I get to visit there again!"

So who knows what the actual reasons are for him not doing SoA in South America.

I saw that and thought... well, that's not the covid vaccine so it doesn't mean much  :lol
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Lethean on July 25, 2022, 09:20:33 PM
How awesome.  Felipe is an *incredible* bass player. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: RodrigoAltaf on July 26, 2022, 03:27:02 AM
I can't think of any other Brazilian player who's able to pull off this gig. Felipe is getting better and better, and he's the perfect man for this job. I hope some of my compatriots film at least part of these shows.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: MoraWintersoul on July 26, 2022, 03:40:05 AM
Maybe he didn't want to disclose his reasons to the promoter because Symphony X got busted for having members who can't travel because of their vaccination status by one of their show promoters when they cancelled the Euro tour? ;)
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Lowdz on July 26, 2022, 03:49:42 AM
Interestingly enough (or timing on Billy), he just posted pictures on FB with a story behind them.

"Getting all the required vaccinations for a Mr Big trip to India back in 2009. While finishing an EU tour in Germany, we had a very kind medical doctor come backstage and he did a great job inoculating all of us. As a result--I had a fabulous time in India, and came home healthy! Great memories from that trip. I hope I get to visit there again!"

So who knows what the actual reasons are for him not doing SoA in South America.

I saw that and thought... well, that's not the covid vaccine so it doesn't mean much  :lol

Maybe it’s just the covid vaccine he’s refusing? Lots of people worry about the long term repercussions given the comparatively short testing. I was certainly not keen, but decided to go for it after a lot of reading. Got covid 3 days afterwards 😁😁😁😁

Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Kyo on July 26, 2022, 04:15:44 AM
Looking at Sheehan's comments underneath his recent posts, it's very clear that he does refuse to take a Covid vaccine because he thinks they haven't been as thoroughly tested as previous vaccines he got. Which is, of course, a total joke seeing how literally billions of doses have been administered over the last couple of years.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Trav86 on July 26, 2022, 04:20:37 AM
Billy has interacted a lot in the comment section of his latest FB posts. He all but but says “I didn’t get the Covid vaccine”. So that’s obviously the reason for missing the tour.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: MoraWintersoul on July 26, 2022, 04:27:20 AM
Well, his loss, enjoy not traveling for the next however-many-months-or-years restrictions are in place. At least he survived the period between early vaccine uptake and Omicron takeover, dude is getting up there in age and it would have been risky for him to end up getting the previous variants of the virus without the vaccine to protect him.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Trav86 on July 26, 2022, 04:48:35 AM
Well, his loss, enjoy not traveling for the next however-many-months-or-years restrictions are in place. At least he survived the period between early vaccine uptake and Omicron takeover, dude is getting up there in age and it would have been risky for him to end up getting the previous variants of the virus without the vaccine to protect him.

Well said.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on July 26, 2022, 05:00:26 AM
Well, his loss, enjoy not traveling for the next however-many-months-or-years restrictions are in place.

I do find it odd that some musicians chose to forgo part of their careers over this.  Billy is fine, he's been around a long time and doesn't need this SOA tour.  But some others are really questionable for their own careers. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: MoraWintersoul on July 26, 2022, 07:06:14 AM
Maybe those musicians think all restrictions are going to stop forever very soon and they're going to miss out on one or two tours tops. But there's always the possibility that: 1) we suddenly get a new variant, 2) some country that's often toured has to become stricter due to their local situation, or 3) they come up with a variant-specific booster vaccine that some countries start requiring, or 4) any other tricky scenario that requires you to roll up your sleeve eventually to enter a specific place... right before the start of a tour, or in the middle of one, when all is done and paid for but most of the money hasn't come in yet. Good luck to them losing money and momentum over misconceptions and conspiracy theories I guess.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Trav86 on July 26, 2022, 07:28:26 AM
I don’t think it’s ever going away.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Madman Shepherd on July 26, 2022, 08:28:00 AM
Looking at Sheehan's comments underneath his recent posts, it's very clear that he does refuse to take a Covid vaccine because he thinks they haven't been as thoroughly tested as previous vaccines he got. Which is, of course, a total joke seeing how literally billions of doses have been administered over the last couple of years.

...and it's technically been tested for about two decades now, it was just the specific spike protein that they needed to isolate to use with this vaccine since covid was a new virus
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Stadler on July 26, 2022, 08:43:53 AM
Look, I don't agree with Billy Sheehan on this point - I thought it was 10 years, but generally Madman is right it's been around for a lot longer than just the public administration, and I've made my choice to get the full complement of shots and the booster - but honestly, I admire him. I haven't followed every one of his statements, but from my perspective, he made his decision, right or wrong, as is his right, he's accepting the consequences, as is his obligation, and he's not pushing his choice on other people, as is, in my opinion, his duty to other citizens.   
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Trav86 on July 26, 2022, 11:16:34 AM
Does anyone else feel like the biggest weakness with this band is Bumblefoot?  Nothing he does stands out to me. And in a band like this, it needs a guitar player with a strong voice. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: goo-goo on July 26, 2022, 11:26:57 AM
Does anyone else feel like the biggest weakness with this band is Bumblefoot?  Nothing he does stands out to me. And in a band like this, it needs a guitar player with a strong voice.

I actually he sings a lot better than Jeff Scott Soto, which I think it's the weakest link. I find his voice not suitable for the type of music SoA plays and also, while he might be a good frontman, his voice usually strains a lot on a live setting. Not sure if he doesn't take care of it properly or what but he was underwhelming the two times I saw SoA live.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Trav86 on July 26, 2022, 11:34:58 AM
Does anyone else feel like the biggest weakness with this band is Bumblefoot?  Nothing he does stands out to me. And in a band like this, it needs a guitar player with a strong voice.

I guess I should clarify that I mean the voice of the guitar standing out from the other instruments. Not Bumblefoot’s actual voice.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bosk1 on July 26, 2022, 11:44:44 AM
I really like Bumblefoot in this band.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: goo-goo on July 26, 2022, 11:50:17 AM
Does anyone else feel like the biggest weakness with this band is Bumblefoot?  Nothing he does stands out to me. And in a band like this, it needs a guitar player with a strong voice.

I guess I should clarify that I mean the voice of the guitar standing out from the other instruments. Not Bumblefoot’s actual voice.

Oh I knew what you meant. I was just saying my opinion on the weakest link in SoA. I like how Bumblefoot plays in SoA. Wouldn't mind seeing him do more with his guitar playing though. Felt that he was a bit restrained but then again MP and DS are the producers so I don't know if it was all of Bumblefoot's final saying on how he approaches the guitar in SoA.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Trav86 on July 26, 2022, 11:54:01 AM
Yeah, I thought the same thing. Maybe he is held back to let the keys stand out more. But I think that’s a mistake.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Kwyjibo on July 26, 2022, 12:01:47 PM
Bumblefoot was the nice surprise in this band for me. Far from the weakest link and he's the least generic sounding in this band imo.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: gzarruk on July 26, 2022, 12:09:24 PM
Does anyone else feel like the biggest weakness with this band is Bumblefoot?  Nothing he does stands out to me. And in a band like this, it needs a guitar player with a strong voice.

I actually he sings a lot better than Jeff Scott Soto, which I think it's the weakest link. I find his voice not suitable for the type of music SoA plays and also, while he might be a good frontman, his voice usually strains a lot on a live setting. Not sure if he doesn't take care of it properly or what but he was underwhelming the two times I saw SoA live.

Yep I agree, JSS is the weakest link for this band, he just doesn't do this genere justice. Not too excited about Billy's playing either. Derek, Mike and Ron work quite well together, though.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: RodrigoAltaf on July 26, 2022, 12:13:13 PM
The thing about Jeff Scott Soto is that when he sings on an album and it's stuff he plans to do live every night, he purposefully holds back, knowing he'll struggle if it's something too difficult. That seems to have been the case with SOA. I've seen him do much more ambitious things in his solo albums, not that long ago.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Stadler on July 26, 2022, 12:18:43 PM
I like the guy, and he's a good frontman, but Jeff is not what I would want for Sons Of Apollo.  IMO, you needed a voice that could cut above and complement the frequencies of the players, not compete with them.  I would have loved to have heard someone with a voice like Brad Delp or Mickey Thomas with that band.  That would be killer.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: gzarruk on July 26, 2022, 12:22:22 PM
THIS should've been the Mike and Russell Allen project instead of AMOB, imo.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: RodrigoAltaf on July 26, 2022, 12:31:35 PM
THIS should've been the Mike and Russell Allen project instead of AMOB, imo.

Apparently, Russell was invited and said no.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: TAC on July 26, 2022, 12:33:09 PM
I like the guy, and he's a good frontman, but Jeff is not what I would want for Sons Of Apollo.  IMO, you needed a voice that could cut above and complement the frequencies of the players, not compete with them.  I would have loved to have heard someone with a voice like Brad Delp or Mickey Thomas with that band.  That would be killer.

I heard Brad Delp was unavailable.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Nachtmerrie on July 26, 2022, 12:46:15 PM
Well, his loss, enjoy not traveling for the next however-many-months-or-years restrictions are in place.

I do find it odd that some musicians chose to forgo part of their careers over this.  Billy is fine, he's been around a long time and doesn't need this SOA tour.  But some others are really questionable for their own careers.

I really respect their choice to put principles above money. For me that´s the essence of personal freedom.

I have to say I was pretty surprised to see SOA touring in 2022. I think a lot of people didn´t expect that band to reach 2022 though it may be because of Covid.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: MinistroRaven on July 26, 2022, 12:48:31 PM
The band is done.
I think they will tour the remaining dates and call it a day.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Metro on July 26, 2022, 12:59:30 PM
Bumblefoot is the only thing I like about this band, and I legit forgot this band existed until this thread resurfaced.

The band is done.
I think they will tour the remaining dates and call it a day.

This doesn’t surprise me. Is anyone pining for a third album? Does anyone really care about this band anymore?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bosk1 on July 26, 2022, 01:01:51 PM
Bumblefoot is the only thing I like about this band, and I legit forgot this band existed until this thread resurfaced.

The band is done.
I think they will tour the remaining dates and call it a day.

This doesn’t surprise me. Is anyone pining for a third album? Does anyone really care about this band anymore?

Pining?  No.  But if they can put out an album as good as the debut, I'm all for it.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Metro on July 26, 2022, 01:05:52 PM
It’s been ages since I’ve listened to either of their albums, but I do remember liking the debut much more than the second, but I still absolutely hated the debut.
If they make another album on the same level as the first, all the more reason this band needs to end.  :lol
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Kwyjibo on July 26, 2022, 01:13:29 PM
I wouldn't mind a third record, I quite liked their albums. Not groundbreaking or record of the year material, but a fun listen and I find myself returning to them once in a while.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: gzarruk on July 26, 2022, 01:22:19 PM
THIS should've been the Mike and Russell Allen project instead of AMOB, imo.

Apparently, Russell was invited and said no.

Wow, that's definitely news to me :eek. He would've elevated this bad A LOT.

I wouldn't mind a third record, I quite liked their albums. Not groundbreaking or record of the year material, but a fun listen and I find myself returning to them once in a while.

I hated most of it when they first appeared, but that had more to do with Mike's and Derek's attitude and comments at the time. Now, I've come to accept them as albums with some strong material that I occasionally go back to, but there's some songs I just don't care about at all. I'd still want a 3rd album if they got Felipe full time :biggrin:
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Stadler on July 26, 2022, 02:54:23 PM
I like the guy, and he's a good frontman, but Jeff is not what I would want for Sons Of Apollo.  IMO, you needed a voice that could cut above and complement the frequencies of the players, not compete with them.  I would have loved to have heard someone with a voice like Brad Delp or Mickey Thomas with that band.  That would be killer.

I heard Brad Delp was unavailable.

 :facepalm:


For the record, I'd be no more thrilled with Russell Allen than Jeff Scott Soto.  I just don't get it (though I like his work with Ayreon a lot).
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on July 26, 2022, 03:11:13 PM
Look, I don't agree with Billy Sheehan on this point - I thought it was 10 years, but generally Madman is right it's been around for a lot longer than just the public administration, and I've made my choice to get the full complement of shots and the booster - but honestly, I admire him. I haven't followed every one of his statements, but from my perspective, he made his decision, right or wrong, as is his right, he's accepting the consequences, as is his obligation, and he's not pushing his choice on other people, as is, in my opinion, his duty to other citizens.

Considering what JSS said on facebook today

Quote
First, it is now out there that Billy won't be joining us for the upcoming shows next month. None of us are happy about this, Billy is our bandmate and brother, to do any shows without any of these guys is something none of us wanted or normally would agree to. I don't need to go into any details further on why he isn't going to be with us, it had to happen based on far too many circumstances beyond our control and we will make the most of this challenging situation. I will cap this part with we'll miss him dearly on these shows and we have nothing but love and respect for our brother.

He may have held onto his beliefs which is admirable, but it isn't without impacting some others.  To me, that is against what a band is about.  Supposed to be "teammates".  So I can only take the admirable part so far.  In some ways, I could argue it would be admirable to go against your belief to support your teammates/friend/band/whatever.  But then again, how much of a "band" is this anyway?  It all kind of feels forced including this final leg of the tour. 

The band is done.
I think they will tour the remaining dates and call it a day.

Which makes me wonder, why bother do this tour at all if it's not with Billy and they don't plan on continuing? (I guess a pay check)

Having said that, I'd check out a third album and most definitely would try to see them live again.  I thought both albums were just OK, but I think they really shined in the live performance.  Yeah, JSS is the weak point, but the band is just so damn talented that it's still a really good show.  Also, I think I like Bumblefoot the most in this band. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Stadler on July 26, 2022, 03:23:58 PM
Marc, that's a fair point about being a teammate.  I get that.

I too share your opinion; they WERE good live. I saw them in Worcester and it was a pretty good show all around.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Trav86 on July 26, 2022, 05:00:02 PM
First off, I’m surprised by the amount of Bumblefoot love. I guess I need to go re-listen with that in mind.

Secondly, I get the problem with JSS. Although, I think he is a good fit, Russell Allen would have been better. Maybe even Ray Alder.  The experience of AMOB might have soured Allen’s ideas of being in another band with Portnoy. Who knows.

Finally, I respect Billy’s choices, although I disagree with him. That’s probably the sentiment of the rest of the band as well. I think this will be the end of the band as well. There doesn’t seem to be enough interest to keep it going. They’re probably only doing these dates because I believe they were cancelled or just never fulfilled two years ago. I could be wrong.

Another thought is that Portnoy may be at a winding down point. We’re pretty sure Transatlantic is ending and most likely this. Maybe he’s making room for the DT reunion after Petrucci’s solo tour…lol.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: RodrigoAltaf on July 26, 2022, 05:56:38 PM
I noticed Portnoy has no studio releases coming up this year. That's unusual for him.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Samsara on July 26, 2022, 06:13:08 PM
I noticed Portnoy has no studio releases coming up this year. That's unusual for him.

Yeah, I noticed that too.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Kram on July 26, 2022, 06:22:23 PM
I noticed Portnoy has no studio releases coming up this year. That's unusual for him.

Yeah, I noticed that too.
I thought new Winery Dogs was in the works?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: DTwwbwMP on July 26, 2022, 06:42:32 PM
2023
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: gzarruk on July 26, 2022, 07:16:14 PM
They also have to make LTE 4 at some point, as they signed a 2 album deal with Inside Out.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Madman Shepherd on July 26, 2022, 11:31:29 PM
A few things here to catch up with the whole conversation...



He may have held onto his beliefs which is admirable, but it isn't without impacting some others.  To me, that is against what a band is about.  Supposed to be "teammates".  So I can only take the admirable part so far.  In some ways, I could argue it would be admirable to go against your belief to support your teammates/friend/band/whatever.

-100%

-As for the weakest link? It's Billy. I don't think he takes away from the band at all and he's a hell of a player and actually quite fun to watch live but the other four all have major strengths as far the the unique aspects they bring. I hate to say it but Billy seems somewhat generic. I also hate how he wears his hate slightly off center. It's definitely intentional...and weird.

-Also, SOA's sophmore album is WAYYYYY better than the debut. It sounded like a band!

-Soto has been up front with his vocal issues. He can still sing pretty well in the studio but can't pull it off live night after night. He has a side project called W.E.T. where he sings insanely well but admitted if they ever did any shows, it would be one offs because his voice couldn't handle anything else.




Another thought is that Portnoy may be at a winding down point.

I think it was before the pandemic...maybe a year or so, but there was a string of interviews where Portnoy actually heavily hinted he wanted to start wrapping it up. I have to paraphrase this from memory but it was something like, "I want Max to take the throne so I can retire!" and then later in a different interview he said something about his back and being old and not wanting to play as much. Of course, it came across as kind of light hearted but I don't remember him ever joking about that so I found it peculiar. I think there were some videos at some shows where he was talking to the crowd and standing with his hand on his lower back and standing awkwardly. As someone with back issues I thought, "hey I recognize that stance." It should be noted that he is 15 years older than me and has an excuse for having back problems. I don't...which blows.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on July 27, 2022, 01:35:18 AM
-Soto has been up front with his vocal issues. He can still sing pretty well in the studio but can't pull it off live night after night. He has a side project called W.E.T. where he sings insanely well but admitted if they ever did any shows, it would be one offs because his voice couldn't handle anything else.

W.E.T. is awesome and it's funny how he sounds so much better there than with SOA, but what you say makes sense then.  Also, I thought he was pretty damn good when he did his Queen tribute set a couple months ago at ProgPower.  Which was also a one off so more evidence to what you claim. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Mladen on July 27, 2022, 01:55:29 AM
I noticed Portnoy has no studio releases coming up this year. That's unusual for him.
I have a feeling this has to do with 2022 being the first year of touring after a gap of two years, which was unprecedented. Most of the bands that ended up releasing albums in 2020 and 2021 are trying to "make up for lost time" this year by touring.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Lowdz on July 28, 2022, 08:45:25 AM
Look, I don't agree with Billy Sheehan on this point - I thought it was 10 years, but generally Madman is right it's been around for a lot longer than just the public administration, and I've made my choice to get the full complement of shots and the booster - but honestly, I admire him. I haven't followed every one of his statements, but from my perspective, he made his decision, right or wrong, as is his right, he's accepting the consequences, as is his obligation, and he's not pushing his choice on other people, as is, in my opinion, his duty to other citizens.

Apart from his playing I find it hard to admire Billy. He’s a Scientologist ffs.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Madman Shepherd on July 28, 2022, 06:06:39 PM
Look, I don't agree with Billy Sheehan on this point - I thought it was 10 years, but generally Madman is right it's been around for a lot longer than just the public administration, and I've made my choice to get the full complement of shots and the booster - but honestly, I admire him. I haven't followed every one of his statements, but from my perspective, he made his decision, right or wrong, as is his right, he's accepting the consequences, as is his obligation, and he's not pushing his choice on other people, as is, in my opinion, his duty to other citizens.

Apart from his playing I find it hard to admire Billy. He’s a Scientologist ffs.

Did you see the video of him wearing a sign inviting people to ask him about scientology and then he refused to answer a lot of the stuff. It was weird. He claimed he was there on his own volition but I'm sure he pissed off david miscavige and did it to make amenda
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on July 29, 2022, 04:07:30 AM
Look, I don't agree with Billy Sheehan on this point - I thought it was 10 years, but generally Madman is right it's been around for a lot longer than just the public administration, and I've made my choice to get the full complement of shots and the booster - but honestly, I admire him. I haven't followed every one of his statements, but from my perspective, he made his decision, right or wrong, as is his right, he's accepting the consequences, as is his obligation, and he's not pushing his choice on other people, as is, in my opinion, his duty to other citizens.

Apart from his playing I find it hard to admire Billy. He’s a Scientologist ffs.

Did you see the video of him wearing a sign inviting people to ask him about scientology and then he refused to answer a lot of the stuff. It was weird. He claimed he was there on his own volition but I'm sure he pissed off david miscavige and did it to make amenda

Haven't watched that video in awhile but its funny  :lol I've met Billy twice and he seemed nice both times.  I don't really know him personally to say the scientology stuff would make him unlikeable, but it's not a good look IMO. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ProfessorPeart on July 30, 2022, 11:30:05 AM
So, this is a bad look for Billy. Lost a lot of respect for him based on his responses. He appears to not only not be vaccinated against Covid, he also appears to not believe that it is a real vaccine. I could say so much, but why bother with these conspiracy theorists. They just dig in harder.

When one fan responded in the comments section that he heard Billy isn't coming to South America with SONS OF APOLLO because he didn't get the COVID-19 vaccine and lamented the fact that Sheehan had to "miss this tour leg because of some stupid restrictions," Billy responded: "thank you for understanding".

Another fan wrote "back when vaccines were…well….vaccines" in reference to Billy's 2009 inoculation, to which Sheehan replied: "exactly".
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: gzarruk on July 30, 2022, 12:29:14 PM
I don't share or agree with Billy's beliefs (Scientology), but I don't think this thread is the right place to talk about the vax vs no vax debate, really.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Cocopjojo on July 30, 2022, 03:04:34 PM
I think it was before the pandemic...maybe a year or so, but there was a string of interviews where Portnoy actually heavily hinted he wanted to start wrapping it up. I have to paraphrase this from memory but it was something like, "I want Max to take the throne so I can retire!" and then later in a different interview he said something about his back and being old and not wanting to play as much. Of course, it came across as kind of light hearted but I don't remember him ever joking about that so I found it peculiar. I think there were some videos at some shows where he was talking to the crowd and standing with his hand on his lower back and standing awkwardly. As someone with back issues I thought, "hey I recognize that stance." It should be noted that he is 15 years older than me and has an excuse for having back problems. I don't...which blows.
That's interesting. This kind of thinking has been going around about Neal Morse as well - e.g. this is why they changed the name of the Neal Morse Band to NMB - to allow the band to continue without him. But personally I have a hard time imagining MP or Neal just hanging it up and pumping out albums at 1/10th their previous rate or whatever. They love it too much, right? And what would they do with their time?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Kram on July 31, 2022, 02:49:23 PM
I think it was before the pandemic...maybe a year or so, but there was a string of interviews where Portnoy actually heavily hinted he wanted to start wrapping it up. I have to paraphrase this from memory but it was something like, "I want Max to take the throne so I can retire!" and then later in a different interview he said something about his back and being old and not wanting to play as much. Of course, it came across as kind of light hearted but I don't remember him ever joking about that so I found it peculiar. I think there were some videos at some shows where he was talking to the crowd and standing with his hand on his lower back and standing awkwardly. As someone with back issues I thought, "hey I recognize that stance." It should be noted that he is 15 years older than me and has an excuse for having back problems. I don't...which blows.
That's interesting. This kind of thinking has been going around about Neal Morse as well - e.g. this is why they changed the name of the Neal Morse Band to NMB - to allow the band to continue without him. But personally I have a hard time imagining MP or Neal just hanging it up and pumping out albums at 1/10th their previous rate or whatever. They love it too much, right? And what would they do with their time?
You're right.  Mike's a workaholic and writing music is Neal's life.  There's no way either stop anytime soon.  Slow down a bit?  Sure, I can see that.  As many have mentioned, TA probably said all it had to say as a band.  In contrast, I feel the NMB has a lot left to say.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ytserush on August 05, 2022, 10:22:58 PM
Bumblefoot is the only thing I like about this band, and I legit forgot this band existed until this thread resurfaced.

The band is done.
I think they will tour the remaining dates and call it a day.

This doesn’t surprise me. Is anyone pining for a third album? Does anyone really care about this band anymore?

Not really, but I still have yet to see an official word that the band is done. I don't interpret no plans as being done, but that could be an inoffensive way to say it.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ytserush on August 05, 2022, 10:32:04 PM
So, this is a bad look for Billy. Lost a lot of respect for him based on his responses. He appears to not only not be vaccinated against Covid, he also appears to not believe that it is a real vaccine. I could say so much, but why bother with these conspiracy theorists. They just dig in harder.

When one fan responded in the comments section that he heard Billy isn't coming to South America with SONS OF APOLLO because he didn't get the COVID-19 vaccine and lamented the fact that Sheehan had to "miss this tour leg because of some stupid restrictions," Billy responded: "thank you for understanding".

Another fan wrote "back when vaccines were…well….vaccines" in reference to Billy's 2009 inoculation, to which Sheehan replied: "exactly".


Didn't Talas reform and release an album? Could that be at least part of the reason?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: RodrigoAltaf on August 06, 2022, 05:46:53 AM
So, this is a bad look for Billy. Lost a lot of respect for him based on his responses. He appears to not only not be vaccinated against Covid, he also appears to not believe that it is a real vaccine. I could say so much, but why bother with these conspiracy theorists. They just dig in harder.

When one fan responded in the comments section that he heard Billy isn't coming to South America with SONS OF APOLLO because he didn't get the COVID-19 vaccine and lamented the fact that Sheehan had to "miss this tour leg because of some stupid restrictions," Billy responded: "thank you for understanding".

Another fan wrote "back when vaccines were…well….vaccines" in reference to Billy's 2009 inoculation, to which Sheehan replied: "exactly".


Didn't Talas reform and release an album? Could that be at least part of the reason?

The album is an old one that is finally being released in 2022.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: emtee on August 16, 2022, 06:15:39 AM
Looks like the recent shows were very well attended and the crowd was enthusiastic. I hope they make a new album. All the ingredients are there for a great album.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ErHaO on August 16, 2022, 06:37:51 AM
Looks like the recent shows were very well attended and the crowd was enthusiastic. I hope they make a new album. All the ingredients are there for a great album.

I looked at some clips and it looks like a fun band and a good time https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZsC9YIz5DSw (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZsC9YIz5DSw)

I think some people are underestimating this band a bit to be honest. No they are not the new Dream Theater and  are most certainly derivative of existing music, but they seem to be doing well. Their clips of the original album four years ago have millions of views and they have other songs/live performances that get hundreds of thousands of viewers. I personally enjoyed their albums and hope they do more.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on August 16, 2022, 08:23:25 AM
Looks like the recent shows were very well attended and the crowd was enthusiastic. I hope they make a new album. All the ingredients are there for a great album.

I looked at some clips and it looks like a fun band and a good time https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZsC9YIz5DSw (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZsC9YIz5DSw)

I think some people are underestimating this band a bit to be honest. No they are not the new Dream Theater and  are most certainly derivative of existing music, but they seem to be doing well. Their clips of the original album four years ago have millions of views and they have other songs/live performances that get hundreds of thousands of viewers. I personally enjoyed their albums and hope they do more.

It's not millions or hundreds of thousands, but even my video of them doing a Deep Purple cover got 33k views (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hMJ4kUNU4os) (which is pretty damn good for my channel).  They were a lot of fun all 3 times I've seen them. Personally, if I had to choose a single MP band I would choose Winery Dogs, but next would probably be SOA.  The band has too much talent and while the albums may not be the best written music, the band really kills it live.  I wonder what the status would be if the band wasn't so pompous when they first started and Derek didn't run his mouth.  I feel that negative first impression still rubs people the wrong way.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: gzarruk on August 16, 2022, 08:40:47 AM
Even I, who wasn't too happy with how they started things and don't like some of their songs, would like to see a 3rd album by them. Even better if it is with Felipe :biggrin:
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Lethean on August 18, 2022, 04:52:59 PM
Even I, who wasn't too happy with how they started things and don't like some of their songs, would like to see a 3rd album by them. Even better if it is with Felipe :biggrin:

I didn't care for the first album and only gave the second one a cursory listen.  But I'd check out the third if Felipe was involved.  Still probably wouldn't like it all that much, but it would get me to listen.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: DTwwbwMP on August 18, 2022, 05:53:23 PM
Looks like the recent shows were very well attended and the crowd was enthusiastic. I hope they make a new album. All the ingredients are there for a great album.
:tup
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: devieira73 on August 18, 2022, 09:14:11 PM
Very cool bootleg from the Rio de Janeiro show, with a very good quality overall:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6G4nh4lwA-o&t=203s
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: TheCountOfNYC on August 19, 2022, 11:31:37 AM
Sons of Apollo are very much a band that needs to be seen live to appreciate them. Their albums don’t do much for me, not that I hate the music or anything, but it doesn’t grab me the way other bands within the prog metal scene do. However, when I saw them on the tour for their first album, I had an absolute blast. The whole band is wildly entertaining to watch, and JSS is an awesome frontman. I don’t care if they release another album or not, but I hope they remain a steady touring band as a live setting where the magic lies with them.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Adami on August 19, 2022, 11:53:36 AM
Sons of Apollo are very much a band that needs to be seen live to appreciate them. Their albums don’t do much for me, not that I hate the music or anything, but it doesn’t grab me the way other bands within the prog metal scene do. However, when I saw them on the tour for their first album, I had an absolute blast. The whole band is wildly entertaining to watch, and JSS is an awesome frontman. I don’t care if they release another album or not, but I hope they remain a steady touring band as a live setting where the magic lies with them.

I think their music might actually hold them back. I don't care for either album (though a few tracks on the first are okay) so I never saw them live. That said, their live shows on DVD and youtube looked great. I remember when they did a cover show before they released their first album and it looked so much fun. I really think it would've done them well to stay in that direction. If that group did fun, groovy, party rock with a lot of fun covers, that would have matched perfectly with their live shows. But the very serious, but sometimes not, overly proggy metal stuff just didn't stand out enough to be interesting.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on August 19, 2022, 02:47:32 PM
As much as I think their covers are great, I don't know if a cover band works for long term success.  They NEED good original music IMO.  If they do one more album, they could have 3 albums to pull from for the live show and focus on what the fans love the most, BUT the 3rd album would need to be better than the first two. I have no idea if they could pull it off.  I'd love to see them try though. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Adami on August 19, 2022, 02:49:17 PM
As much as I think their covers are great, I don't know if a cover band works for long term success.  They NEED good original music IMO.  If they do one more album, they could have 3 albums to pull from for the live show and focus on what the fans love the most, BUT the 3rd album would need to be better than the first two. I have no idea if they could pull it off.  I'd love to see them try though.

Totally. I didn't mean to be a cover band, I meant do originals in the that fun, party rock style that they also covered and to also throw in covers. They don't need to be a play a 10 minute prog epic with a symphony band. You know?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on August 19, 2022, 02:54:04 PM
Yup, just like they don't need to be better than Dream Theater. But if the prog epic is their thing, then they just need to do it better.  Of their long songs, I only really like God of the Sun.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Adami on August 19, 2022, 03:08:41 PM
Yup, just like they don't need to be better than Dream Theater. But if the prog epic is their thing, then they just need to do it better.  Of their long songs, I only really like God of the Sun.

Also an option. I just think they demonstrated a skill set and a niche that isn’t over saturated with the fun groovy party rock thing. The long instrumental tough guy prog metal genre is well saturated and they don’t seem to be doing a good enough job of it to stick out. But in the end I’m glad they’re doing what makes them happy. We should all only be so lucky.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: devieira73 on January 28, 2023, 04:33:46 PM
It's a JSS interview and it doesn't have any news about SoA, but what I found really interesting is how much he's honest about the changes in his voice and to admit that he can't sing a lot of his material anymore (from 40:34 on):
https://youtu.be/17f1CM2oqeM
I guess it's rare a renowed vocalist being really open about it.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: nobloodyname on January 29, 2023, 03:03:09 AM
Only watched from the recommended timestamp but that was fascinating. Thanks for sharing.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Madman Shepherd on January 29, 2023, 09:23:15 AM
Soto just seems like a really likable, down to earth dude. I saw an interview with him from a while back where he was talking about his W.E.T. side project and how it's designed to be a studio only project because he cannot sustain those types of vocals for a tour. He did say that he would be able to do a one off show perhaps.

If anybody hasn't heard that band it really beckons back to some of the 80s, poppier songs with his more traditional vocals.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ProfessorPeart on October 15, 2023, 12:21:31 PM
Bumblefoot pretty much saying the band is done.

https://blabbermouth.net/news/bumblefoot-on-status-of-sons-of-apollo-i-hope-everybody-enjoyed-it-past-tense
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: MirrorMask on October 15, 2023, 12:46:44 PM
The number of people surprised will be very low.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Kocak on October 15, 2023, 01:07:23 PM
I think they were expecting to be viewed as the next big prog band and they weren't received that well by the fans, so they were disheartened. I see no point in them making another album to be honest. The first two did not interest me at all.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: gzarruk on October 15, 2023, 01:27:43 PM
I watched the interview the other day but forgot to come here to post it. It's not surprising really, though I admit I had warmed up to them recently and now they won't release anything else :lol
There's a solid album there if you combine the best songs from both releases.

The way he worded it, it seem it was either Mike and/or Billy who pulled the plug, considering Ron's still working with both Jeff and Derek.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Madman Shepherd on October 15, 2023, 02:02:58 PM


The way he worded it, it seem it was either Mike and/or Billy who pulled the plug, considering Ron's still working with both Jeff and Derek.

That was my read too. I remember an interview with Soto where he explained the song Goodbye Divinity was about the desire to keep struggling with a band that's your passion and he even said after the first album there was a lot of question about whether they should even continue.

I watched the interview the other day but forgot to come here to post it. It's not surprising really, though I admit I had warmed up to them recently and now they won't release anything else :lol
There's a solid album there if you combine the best songs from both releases

I actually think their second album was pretty solid through and through. Their problem was twofold: 1) their first album seemed like half filler and half really good metal with a prog lean and 2)like was stated previously, they thought they'd be the next big prog metal band and they were a little short in the prog.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Trav86 on October 15, 2023, 02:51:01 PM
I would imagine that Mike and Billy didn’t want to waste time on something that didn’t have much of a draw. They can spend more time with The Winery Dogs which seem to be pretty successful. They’ve toured a ton this year, and it looks like they do well worldwide.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: MinistroRaven on October 15, 2023, 05:06:04 PM
-
Now seriously is this band still a thing?

Nope!  :rollin
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on October 15, 2023, 05:17:26 PM


The way he worded it, it seem it was either Mike and/or Billy who pulled the plug, considering Ron's still working with both Jeff and Derek.

That was my read too.

That was also how I took this, but for some reason, I thought Bumblefoot was initially the one who didn't want to continue due to touring.  I could be completely wrong.

No surprise the band is done.  But honestly, Winery Dogs are only a bit more successful.  I think they would just need to put more effort into making a good full album with this band, and maybe with this group of musicians, it's just too difficult to focus that much attention to it considering they all have other options. 

It didn't work out.  Their live shows were awesome (saw them 3 times) but the albums were just OK. It needed more TLC and a humbleness as a new band. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Setlist Scotty on October 15, 2023, 06:17:13 PM


The way he worded it, it seem it was either Mike and/or Billy who pulled the plug, considering Ron's still working with both Jeff and Derek.

That was my read too. I remember an interview with Soto where he explained the song Goodbye Divinity was about the desire to keep struggling with a band that's your passion and he even said after the first album there was a lot of question about whether they should even continue.

I watched the interview the other day but forgot to come here to post it. It's not surprising really, though I admit I had warmed up to them recently and now they won't release anything else :lol
There's a solid album there if you combine the best songs from both releases

I actually think their second album was pretty solid through and through. Their problem was twofold: 1) their first album seemed like half filler and half really good metal with a prog lean and 2)like was stated previously, they thought they'd be the next big prog metal band and they were a little short in the prog.
I think the big factor that screwed things up for them with the first album was all of the crap-talk from Derek during the initial promo. While he never specifically spoke of Jordan, his negative comments were so thinly veiled that it didn't take a rocket scientist to figure out who he was referring to.

And then the pandemic ruined things for them, as they were just starting to gain some momentum, which is what I gather from Bumblefoot's comments in the interview.

Personally I think it's a shame as I really like the band, moreso than any of MP's other post-DT bands aside from perhaps FC, and I honestly think they could've done something amazing given enough time. Wish I would've gotten to see them live as well, but it wasn't possible.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: DTwwbwMP on October 15, 2023, 06:51:18 PM
Personally, for me this is crappy news. Other than NMB, SOA were my 2nd favorite post DT MP band. Liked both albums and thought they were great LIVE! I know they weren't liked here, but color me pissed! Oh well.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Lethean on October 15, 2023, 08:31:57 PM




I think the big factor that screwed things up for them with the first album was all of the crap-talk from Derek during the initial promo. While he never specifically spoke of Jordan, his negative comments were so thinly veiled that it didn't take a rocket scientist to figure out who he was referring to.

Yeah that didn't help.  I think he took some shots at James as well.  For me, that band was never going to be my thing.  Seemed really lackluster overall, and Jeff Scott Soto (who I like) didn't sound all that great to me.  But, I *really* disliked Adrenaline Mob but I was happy to go see them live anyway just to be supportive of MP and Russell Allen, etc.  And I guess that could have be me with SOA too - not really liking it but supporting in some way, and then Derek was kind of a jerk and that pretty much sealed it.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ProfessorPeart on October 15, 2023, 08:36:00 PM
I thought the first album was just okay, but the second album was really good. I think a third might have been even better. Not a big loss, JSS was the weak link to me. They could've found a better vocalist.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Metro on October 15, 2023, 08:40:45 PM
Both albums were very unremarkable IMO. Coming out of the gate with such a pompous attitude definitely wasn't a good look. So much for the "New Kings of Prog Metal".
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Ben_Jamin on October 15, 2023, 10:08:41 PM
The only song I really got into and enjoyed is Labyrinth. I never really listened to the 2nd album.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Kocak on October 16, 2023, 01:45:17 AM
Personally I think it's a shame as I really like the band, moreso than any of MP's other post-DT bands aside from perhaps FC, and I honestly think they could've done something amazing given enough time. Wish I would've gotten to see them live as well, but it wasn't possible.

This post of yours points to another problem of MP's post-DT career IMO: Quantity over quality does not work. There was this interview that I read of MP in which he categorised all his bands as "my metal side", "my prog side", "my rock side" and I don't think that works.

Years ago, he was asked about Neil Peart taking drum lessons from Freddie Gruber in the 90's, well into his career and he said that he might do something similar once his kids go off to college. His children are well into adulthood now and I think he could have done with a style refresh. The DT-style prog formula with different people doesn't catch people anymore. Just my two cents.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Mladen on October 16, 2023, 03:44:28 AM
The key thing here for me is that Bumblefoot writes how some members wanted to "keep working during the pandemic." It appears someone wanted to tour before it was safe, so there was a disagreement. Maybe it was another issue related to quarantining, vaccinations and that stuff, similar to what's happening with Symphony X to an extent. The pandemic really made an impact on certain bands.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: goo-goo on October 16, 2023, 07:23:57 AM
I thought the first album was just okay, but the second album was really good. I think a third might have been even better. Not a big loss, JSS was the weak link to me. They could've found a better vocalist.

Same feelings. Instrumentally, both albums are very good. But vocally, I just never got into JSS in SoA or anything he has done for whatever reason.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: WilliamMunny on October 16, 2023, 07:41:23 AM
I, for one, 'wanted' to love SOA, especially because of the high-esteem I hold FII in.

Between both albums, however, there are but a handful of songs that really grabbed me. Even listening back through this morning, the whole project feels rushed, from the composition to the recording.

I mean, I get it, time is money, and those schedules are very packed, but it's difficult to imagine a band coming together for the first time and banging out a masterpiece without the benefit of a tour behind them.

But, all of that aside, I will freely admit that Derek's antics in the press were a major turnoff to this 'potential' fan. I found all of it so distasteful, that I suspect it played a role in my initially being underwhelmed by the first album.


Kocak's point about "quality over quantity" is well stated, and pretty much sums up my thoughts on MP's post-DT career.

There's a few hits, but also a mountain of misses IMO.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Madman Shepherd on October 16, 2023, 09:33:52 AM
I thought the first album was just okay, but the second album was really good. I think a third might have been even better. Not a big loss, JSS was the weak link to me. They could've found a better vocalist.

Same feelings. Instrumentally, both albums are very good. But vocally, I just never got into JSS in SoA or anything he has done for whatever reason.

I mentioned this previously in the thread but JSS is open about his range not being what it once was. Still, he can get a great range it's just not sustainable which is why I think he limited himself to what he could do live night after night. Even so, he still modified the vocals in concert certain parts that aren't even that challenging but are tough to do in a 2 hour set, 5 days a week or whatever.

But, having said that, him and Derek really butted heads during the recording of the first album and the full details have never been revealed. I know Derek gave him crap for using the word "minotaur" in one of his lyrics but I wonder if Derek used the same rhetoric he did online when dealing with Soto. "Don't sing like your balls are in a vice" or "youre sounding too much like cock rock." I don't know if Derek used that exact terminology but it was something close.
I, for one, 'wanted' to love SOA, especially because of the high-esteem I hold FII in.

Between both albums, however, there are but a handful of songs that really grabbed me. Even listening back through this morning, the whole project feels rushed, from the composition to the recording.

I mean, I get it, time is money, and those schedules are very packed, but it's difficult to imagine a band coming together for the first time and banging out a masterpiece without the benefit of a tour behind them.

Their first album was definitely rushed. They wrote and recorded the thing in a week. The second one was birthed from a lot of jamming on tour, a week of solid writing and recording sessions, and then touch ups and additions on their own from home. It's a much more solid album and I think that's proof as to why.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: gzarruk on October 16, 2023, 10:07:34 AM
The thing I had hoped this band would do but never happened was them writing their own ACOS (20+ min epic). They came close with New World Today, but that had many recycled sections from Derek's solo work + some from the first album.

Personally I think it's a shame as I really like the band, moreso than any of MP's other post-DT bands aside from perhaps FC, and I honestly think they could've done something amazing given enough time. Wish I would've gotten to see them live as well, but it wasn't possible.

This post of yours points to another problem of MP's post-DT career IMO: Quantity over quality does not work. There was this interview that I read of MP in which he categorised all his bands as "my metal side", "my prog side", "my rock side" and I don't think that works.

Years ago, he was asked about Neil Peart taking drum lessons from Freddie Gruber in the 90's, well into his career and he said that he might do something similar once his kids go off to college. His children are well into adulthood now and I think he could have done with a style refresh. The DT-style prog formula with different people doesn't catch people anymore. Just my two cents.

This is very true. I like MP a lot, but he seems to be so much more focused on checking items on his list than actually building things up from the ground. He takes a lot of pride for being the guy who can be in lots of bands, play shows with many of them in relatively short time, memorize multiple sets, record and release multiple albums every year, etc., but that's not really the key to success IMO. He seems to be so much more enamored with the idea of being in many bands at the same time rather than putting the effort on making them grow properly.

This also leads to the question: what's next for Mike? TA is done (for now at least), so is SOA. NMB have no real plans besides playing another Morsefest show and FC is booked for that cruise but there's no album writing plans either. TWD are wrapping their cycle soon and his work with LTE or Petrucci solo are sporadic at best. Could he be secretly working on a new band/project thing?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Schurftkut on October 16, 2023, 10:40:26 AM
he did say something exiting was coming after winery dogs touring
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: devieira73 on October 16, 2023, 10:49:09 AM
I really liked SoA and I think the band had the potential to improve, so for me it's sad that the band ended, but more or less as we already knew/expected. It seems like they unrealistically expected near-instant success just due to the weight of the names involved, so I think frustration played a role. I also think the band could benefit from better choices in the bass and vocal departments. I love Sheehan but he always seemed like someone hired guy and I think Soto never didn't fit in very well with that type of sound.
I still would like to see MP doing some refreshing take in the prog metal world though. Maybe with new talented musicians?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: WilliamMunny on October 16, 2023, 11:00:25 AM
I really liked SoA and I think the band had the potential to improve, so for me it's sad that the band ended, but more or less as we already knew/expected. It seems like they unrealistically expected near-instant success just due to the weight of the names involved, so I think frustration played a role. I also think the band could benefit from better choices in the bass and vocal departments. I love Sheehan but he always seemed like someone hired guy and I think Soto never didn't fit in very well with that type of sound.
I still would like to see MP doing some refreshing take in the prog metal world though. Maybe with new talented musicians?

I was 'hoping' that Mangini's solo album would be an undeniable banger that would lead to a successful solo career, leaving a vacancy at DT's drum throne... :facepalm:

From what I've recently heard, I don't think 'undeniable banger' is going to be how people receive his album.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on October 16, 2023, 11:01:43 AM
The key thing here for me is that Bumblefoot writes how some members wanted to "keep working during the pandemic." It appears someone wanted to tour before it was safe, so there was a disagreement. Maybe it was another issue related to quarantining, vaccinations and that stuff, similar to what's happening with Symphony X to an extent. The pandemic really made an impact on certain bands.

Billy Sheehan was reported to not get the covid shot and I think that prevented him from touring for awhile after the pandemic. https://blabbermouth.net/news/billy-sheehan-explains-why-he-chose-not-to-get-covid-19-vaccine (https://blabbermouth.net/news/billy-sheehan-explains-why-he-chose-not-to-get-covid-19-vaccine)
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: gmillerdrake on October 16, 2023, 11:37:51 AM
Yeah...not to start a Covid debate but I'll just leave it at 'good for Billy'.


And, if I'm honest I find a bit of satisfaction that this band folded. From reading all the reports, gossip, in person encounters, stories, articles....and even seeing it in person....all things add up to Derek being a pretty big POS. I'm sure the other fellas are much nicer and deserve a better outcome from this but I think Derek kind of deserves this failure in light of what an ass he had been during it all.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: nobloodyname on October 16, 2023, 01:32:38 PM
"deserves this failure"? Goodness.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: goo-goo on October 16, 2023, 01:55:59 PM
The antics from Derek didn't make me dislike their music.  I actually LOVE Derek's solo music and I keep supporting his efforts. And I have met him once, and yes, he is a bit on the douchebag side but I'm not there to interact with him more than getting a picture, thanking him for his music, and that's it. Most of the meet and greets are like this. The only M&Gs that I have fully enjoyed because the bands wanted to talk to the fans were Tesseract and Fates Warning. Those were memorable meet and greets.

Regarding the music from SoA: I actually liked Derek's contributions but the music, as a whole,  (especially the vocals) didn't connect with me. First album sounded rushed as someone said previously, and while the 2nd album was stronger, it wasn't good enough for me. I did see them live and live, they were good, but again, while Jeff is a good frontman, his voice just kills it for me. The music spoke for itself, it just didn't speak to me this time around.

That "deserving failure" comment is a bit overboard. There were plenty of fans that dug Sons of Apollo. Music is their livelihood and they tried, and SoA didn't work out this time around.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: gmillerdrake on October 16, 2023, 02:37:34 PM
That "deserving failure" comment is a bit overboard.

I'll stick by it.....what was overboard was the lengths he went to in the media to stirr up and talk shit. It'd be one thing if it were tongue and cheek but it wasn't. It was mean spirited and it fit his distemper. Like I said in my original statement....the other members deserved a better outcome but karma served Sherinian what he ordered.


There were plenty of fans that dug Sons of Apollo.

Sure there was/is....there were a couple songs that were listenable.

Music is their livelihood and they tried, and SoA didn't work out this time around.

Don't know about that. I get the impression they thought the clout and names they brought to the table were going to automatically put them at the top of the game without having to earn it.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ReaperKK on October 16, 2023, 02:58:15 PM
I feel like names and clout can only get you so far personally. None of them individually are big names to start with so putting together a super group the songs still have to be good. Like gmiller said, you gotta earn it.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Trav86 on October 16, 2023, 06:05:15 PM
There’s a list of great musicians who have stepped up to play on Derek’s records over the years. If he were that much of a POS, why would they keep coming back? It ain’t for the money!
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: RodrigoAltaf on October 16, 2023, 06:58:53 PM
 I wonder what kind of phoenix will rise from the ashes of SOA...wink wink.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Orbert on October 16, 2023, 07:59:18 PM
There’s a list of great musicians who have stepped up to play on Derek’s records over the years. If he were that much of a POS, why would they keep coming back? It ain’t for the money!

Interesting point.  I'm one of those who can usually separate the art from the artist; in other words, I don't really care much if Derek is an asshole, I still like his playing and most of his stuff is pretty good.  I'm sure it's different when you actually have to work with someone, but maybe there are enough guys who'll just put up with his shit because he's great to jam with.  Or it could be that it really is all an act, and once you get to know him, he's pretty cool.  We really don't know.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Architeuthis on October 16, 2023, 08:02:25 PM
SOA was fun while it lasted. I liked their first album and their live performance was awesome! Their second album didn't do much for me. Maybe I'll give it another listen sometime soon.
I would rather see MP put his efforts more towards NMB than anything else at this point. I also wouldn't mind if MP would do a project with Devin Townsend. However, Devin is not short on good drummers in his trajectory.. 😁
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Ben_Jamin on October 16, 2023, 09:40:32 PM
Does anyone still watch their live with Orchestra live show much. That is where I start to feel they themselves as being bigger than what they are. Doing that type of thing would've been better after 2 or 3 Albums. It is odd to me they did that so early in their career where half of it cover songs.


Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ReaperKK on October 16, 2023, 09:42:47 PM
I just realized I still have the sons of apollo forum theme :lol
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Skeever on October 17, 2023, 03:57:10 AM
I know that this band was supposed to be Mike Portnoy's progressive metal band, but they never really felt like that to me. Sure they had grand intros, they had instrumentals, they had solos, but from a songwriting perspective they just made me think of your typical post-grunge type music. Although everybody was good at what they did, I just don't think of any of those guys as great creative minds.

Doesn't really phase me that they are gone. The second album was slightly better than the first, but I doubt they were ever going to turn into a legit progressive metal force.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Stadler on October 17, 2023, 06:09:58 AM
I know that this band was supposed to be Mike Portnoy's progressive metal band, but they never really felt like that to me. Sure they had grand intros, they had instrumentals, they had solos, but from a songwriting perspective they just made me think of your typical post-grunge type music. Although everybody was good at what they did, I just don't think of any of those guys as great creative minds.

Doesn't really phase me that they are gone. The second album was slightly better than the first, but I doubt they were ever going to turn into a legit progressive metal force.

For me, it was all the vocals.   Jeff is a great singer, great frontman, and from all accounts an amazing guy, but... FOR ME he wasn't right in that setting.   There were too many instruments fighting for the same bandwidth already, and his vocals didn't - FOR ME - cut above.    I've long called Dream Theater (at least when I got into them) as "Rush meets Maiden, with Steve Perry singing" and that's what I felt was necessary for me to like it.  I get - and very much respect - that Jeff was playing a long game with his vocals vis-a-vis touring, but it didn't make for compelling music, IMO.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: King Postwhore on October 17, 2023, 06:19:38 AM
The songwriting never did it for me.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Kwyjibo on October 17, 2023, 06:51:30 AM
I really like Derek's solo records, there's some great songs on there. But either he's better at writing instrumental music or his songwwiting skills didn't work with Sons Of Apollo. Both records were okay, with the second one slightly better, but the songs weren't really special.

And JSS singing like he did didn't help things.

On the bright side, the band did introduce me to Bumblefoot and he's an tremendous player.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ZirconBlue on October 17, 2023, 07:55:22 AM
I may be misremembering, but there was an interview with JSS where he indicated that Derek kept telling him to bring the vocals down.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Trav86 on October 17, 2023, 07:57:39 AM
The songwriting never did it for me.

It was like prog Adrenaline Mob.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Kwyjibo on October 17, 2023, 08:01:50 AM
I may be misremembering, but there was an interview with JSS where he indicated that Derek kept telling him to bring the vocals down.

I don't know if Derek told JSS to bring the vocals down, but I remember him saying, that he had a clear idea how the vocals should sound, so maybe it's his fault. But then I was never a big fan of JSS' singing, so I don't know if it would have been better had JSS been given free reign.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Grappler on October 17, 2023, 08:08:16 AM
Does anyone still watch their live with Orchestra live show much. That is where I start to feel they themselves as being bigger than what they are. Doing that type of thing would've been better after 2 or 3 Albums. It is odd to me they did that so early in their career where half of it cover songs.

The promoter went to the band with the idea.  "I'll give you the venue, the orchestra and a list of cover songs that the orchestra knows."  I don't fault the band for taking the offer and releasing it.  The cover songs bore the hell out of me on that release though.  I do love the live versions of the original songs and the few DT songs they did.

As for the band, I think it was just like Adrenaline Mob - oooh, Portnoy and Allen or Portnoy and Sherinian together?  They're going to "out widdly-widdly" DT.  When the music wasn't similar to DT, I think some fans didn't care for it, especially after them talking up the fact that it was a prog band.  If they had been more honest and said "hey, we're just going to rock," I think it may have done a bit better and fans expectations would have been tempered a bit. 

Sucks to know that they're done as a band - I really liked the two records.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: hefdaddy42 on October 17, 2023, 08:26:21 AM
SOA never made any music that moved me in any way.  And I listened to everything they made, since there were multiple musicians involved in the project that I respect.

For me, it just didn't work, and made no impact whatsoever.  If they are done, great!  That will give those musicians I mentioned more time and availability to do stuff I might like more lol
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bosk1 on October 17, 2023, 09:25:11 AM
I know that this band was supposed to be Mike Portnoy's progressive metal band, but they never really felt like that to me. Sure they had grand intros, they had instrumentals, they had solos, but from a songwriting perspective they just made me think of your typical post-grunge type music. Although everybody was good at what they did, I just don't think of any of those guys as great creative minds.

Doesn't really phase me that they are gone. The second album was slightly better than the first, but I doubt they were ever going to turn into a legit progressive metal force.

To me, it was a lot of borrowing what Sherinian and Portnoy took from their time in DT, combining it with a more straightforward rock background from Bumblefoot and Soto, and having Portnoy arrange the songs into a "typical," "prog by numbers" song arrangement.  And while the latter part of that sentence may sound like I am slamming them, it's not meant that way.  Listening to their songs, there was some of that typical prog my numbers feel that made even the songs with more nonstandard arrangements somewhat predictable, I still felt that they were solid, enjoyable songs that worked just fine in the context of what they were doing.  I liked the first album quite a bit.  The second was more of the same, although I ultimately felt that it was not as consistent and, as a result, not quite as good.  In fact, I remember when writing my review of the album, struggling with how to not sound negative while basically saying, "If you liked the first album, you will probably like this one, because it just sounds like what could have been leftovers from those sessions." 

At the end of the day, I would have liked another album since I enjoyed a lot of songs from the first two.  But I'm not overly upset about not getting one either.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: gzarruk on October 17, 2023, 09:54:25 AM
I really like Derek's solo records, there's some great songs on there. But either he's better at writing instrumental music or his songwwiting skills didn't work with Sons Of Apollo. Both records were okay, with the second one slightly better, but the songs weren't really special.

The thing is that even on his solo records, he has co-writers. At first it was Virgil (which merged into Planet X), and then Simon Phillips. Not dissing Derek at all, but it seems like he needs the input from those other writers to come up with something great.

Same thing with Mike, he needs to be around great writers (Morse, Petrucci, Rudess, Stolt, Kotzen, etc) for the project to be good. His "master arranger touch" can't do much to save an album if the material doesn't come from a strong source first.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Kyo on October 17, 2023, 10:04:54 AM
The thing I had hoped this band would do but never happened was them writing their own ACOS (20+ min epic). They came close with New World Today, but that had many recycled sections from Derek's solo work + some from the first album.

They reused quite a bit of Derek's earlier material on the two SoA albums. It's one reason why I couldn't enjoy the music that much.

Blood of the Snake 3:24-4:15 -> God of the Sun 5:20-6:51 (first as a vocal section, then as a solo section)
State of Delirium 0:34 -> Desolate July 3:16 and 3:59
The Sons of Anu 4:19 -> Fall to Ascend 2:39 and 4:08
Ascension 0:31-2:02 -> New World Today 0:00-1:42
Day of the Dead 3:15-5:15 -> New World Today 10:42-12:42

Plus there was the obvious similarity to Dream Theater's New Millennium 1:51 in the intro of Goodbye Divinity. But those listed above are far more substantial.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: gzarruk on October 17, 2023, 10:44:25 AM
The thing I had hoped this band would do but never happened was them writing their own ACOS (20+ min epic). They came close with New World Today, but that had many recycled sections from Derek's solo work + some from the first album.

They reused quite a bit of Derek's earlier material on the two SoA albums. It's one reason why I couldn't enjoy the music that much.

Blood of the Snake 3:24-4:15 -> God of the Sun 5:20-6:51 (first as a vocal section, then as a solo section)
State of Delirium 0:34 -> Desolate July 3:16 and 3:59
The Sons of Anu 4:19 -> Fall to Ascend 2:39 and 4:08
Ascension 0:31-2:02 -> New World Today 0:00-1:42
Day of the Dead 3:15-5:15 -> New World Today 10:42-12:42

Plus there was the obvious similarity to Dream Theater's New Millennium 1:51 in the intro of Goodbye Divinity. But those listed above are far more substantial.

I never noticed the ones from State of Delirium and Sons of Anu, but yeah they're all there. Also, the solo from Day of the Dead, which got repeated on New World Today was first borrowed for the solo on Opus Maximus (6:43)
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Schurftkut on October 17, 2023, 11:14:34 AM
that's kinda funny, when MP was vocal about ADTOE being "copied" from images, he comes with an album full of rehashed stuff  :rollin
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bosk1 on October 17, 2023, 11:20:33 AM
In fairness, I wouldn't say he was "vocal" about it.  He just responded to what somebody else said, and in doing so, he wasn't even really critical, as I recall, and just making an observation.  So I don't think that's actually a fair criticism.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: gzarruk on October 17, 2023, 11:46:09 AM
In fairness, I wouldn't say he was "vocal" about it.  He just responded to what somebody else said, and in doing so, he wasn't even really critical, as I recall, and just making an observation.  So I don't think that's actually a fair criticism.

The comment about the album was in response to someone else, yes, but he did go out of his way to talk about BMU, BMD being very similar to a song by the band RED. In fact, here's the actual quote:

Quote
"Check out the first song on [John Petrucci's] fave album of the year.... WOW, the arrangement and orchestration sounds awfully familiar!! Surely it must be an intentional 'nugget' for the fans... It couldn't possibly be blatant formula plagiarism, now could it...?? I just have to laugh..."
https://blabbermouth.net/news/did-dream-theater-draw-inspiration-from-christian-rock-band-mike-portnoy-seems-to-think-so

I clearly remember reading this and going :facepalm: because this is the same guy who came up with the idea for Never Enough.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bosk1 on October 17, 2023, 11:59:52 AM
Oh, okay.  Fair enough.  That is a bit more on the nose than I remembered. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Kyo on October 17, 2023, 12:56:17 PM
I never noticed the ones from State of Delirium and Sons of Anu, but yeah they're all there. Also, the solo from Day of the Dead, which got repeated on New World Today was first borrowed for the solo on Opus Maximus (6:43)

Oh boy, you're right!  :lol

I don't think I made it through Opus Maximus more than once (if that), so I never noticed.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Trav86 on October 17, 2023, 02:47:32 PM
Do you think Derek was just repeating these ideas from old songs and the other guys never had any idea, because they’ve probably never even listened those before?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: gzarruk on October 17, 2023, 03:14:34 PM
Do you think Derek was just repeating these ideas from old songs and the other guys never had any idea, because they’ve probably never even listened those before?

I obviously can't speak for them, but I don't think that was the case for at least some of those. On the MMXX booklet there are different section titles for New World Today and two of those are Ascension and Day of the Dead for their respective parts. I don't think Derek tried to keep this a secret.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Trav86 on October 17, 2023, 03:32:25 PM
Do you think Derek was just repeating these ideas from old songs and the other guys never had any idea, because they’ve probably never even listened those before?

I obviously can't speak for them, but I don't think that was the case for at least some of those. On the MMXX booklet there are different section titles for New World Today and two of those are Ascension and Day of the Dead for their respective parts. I don't think Derek tried to keep this a secret.

Has anyone else noticed how Asphyxiation is just a re-write of Just Let Me Breathe? I’m assuming I’m not the only one because it’s pretty obvious. The riff, the instrumental section, even the title.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Madman Shepherd on October 17, 2023, 07:29:24 PM
Do you think Derek was just repeating these ideas from old songs and the other guys never had any idea, because they’ve probably never even listened those before?

I obviously can't speak for them, but I don't think that was the case for at least some of those. On the MMXX booklet there are different section titles for New World Today and two of those are Ascension and Day of the Dead for their respective parts. I don't think Derek tried to keep this a secret.

Has anyone else noticed how Asphyxiation is just a re-write of Just Let Me Breathe? I’m assuming I’m not the only one because it’s pretty obvious. The riff, the instrumental section, even the title.

I don't really see/hear that at all.

I am looking forward to checking out the similarities Kyo posted though.

Btw, not borrowing from themselves but straight up ripping off others, the verse of King of Delusion is 85% Perry Mason by Ozzy.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: porcacultor on October 17, 2023, 09:02:45 PM
Do you think Derek was just repeating these ideas from old songs and the other guys never had any idea, because they’ve probably never even listened those before?

I obviously can't speak for them, but I don't think that was the case for at least some of those. On the MMXX booklet there are different section titles for New World Today and two of those are Ascension and Day of the Dead for their respective parts. I don't think Derek tried to keep this a secret.

Has anyone else noticed how Asphyxiation is just a re-write of Just Let Me Breathe? I’m assuming I’m not the only one because it’s pretty obvious. The riff, the instrumental section, even the title.

I don't really see/hear that at all.

I am looking forward to checking out the similarities Kyo posted though.

Btw, not borrowing from themselves but straight up ripping off others, the verse of King of Delusion is 85% Perry Mason by Ozzy.

Not just Perry Mason, but have you heard Derek's Black Utopia (the song, not the album)? Pretty much the same structure and ideas used for King of Delusion.

EDIT:

I am pretty bummed that this band is no more, regardless of copping Derek's prior material... They were fun. Maybe they lacked more adventurous management? Different production? With these "big fish in their respective ponds" lineups, scheduling can be tough.

Coming Home had the makings of a greater hit than it was. Who knows what happened... but this sucks. Probably my favorite post-DT Portnoy project overall.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on October 18, 2023, 08:35:39 AM
With these "big fish in their respective ponds" lineups, scheduling can be tough.

I have to imagine that was an issue.  These guys needed to commit themselves to this band so they could let ideas flow and evolve for their music over time.  They just don't have the time to do that if they are in ther bands as well.  I would blame this as the most likely reason for rehashed ideas and inconsistent albums.  They never allowed themselves to take the time truly flesh out songs artistically. 

Take for example, Code Orange who's new album features Max Portnoy.  In an interview the singer said they had been working on it for 3 years.  Didn't SOA write an album in 3 weeks? That Code Orange album is incredible, and it likely has a lot to do with the band giving the music TLC that it needs.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ReaperKK on October 18, 2023, 09:06:12 AM
I think that's kind of the issue I have with a lot of MP projects. He gets in and knocks out a bunch of songs with whoever he is working with and calls it wrap and honestly it shows. I know there are a lot of great albums written in a short period of time but the ones MP has contributed to, like SoA, sound like they were just slapped together.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: TAC on October 18, 2023, 09:21:08 AM
When I listened to SOA, it just screamed "product".
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: RodrigoAltaf on October 18, 2023, 09:23:35 AM
I just interviewed Felipe Andreoli of Angra - they have a new album coming out in a few weeks which is the best they have done in many years. He confirmed that that the SOA guys told him back then that  they had no plans after the last tour in South America.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Metro on October 18, 2023, 09:25:18 AM
Listening to both albums today since I haven’t listened to either since they were released. First one is just as unremarkable and unimaginative as I remember.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Madman Shepherd on October 18, 2023, 01:04:21 PM
There’s a list of great musicians who have stepped up to play on Derek’s records over the years. If he were that much of a POS, why would they keep coming back? It ain’t for the money!

Maybe he knows his place. I'm sure he isn't giving Billy Idol or Zakk Wylde as much shit as he gave Soto.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Nachtmerrie on October 18, 2023, 01:24:59 PM
Listening to both albums today since I haven’t listened to either since they were released. First one is just as unremarkable and unimaginative as I remember.

Listened to both yesterday during work. It´s a bunch of average songs played by great musicians. If you put expectations aside I would say the albums are pretty good. The point is most of us expected a lot more considering the names involved.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Metro on October 18, 2023, 01:32:38 PM
I agree.


I remember back when they were recording the first album, Mike was trying to keep the lineup a secret. Myself and others figured out the lineup, and that info made it to his forum and he flipped out saying something like “NO ONE GETS TO ANNOUNCE WHO IS IN THIS BAND BUT ME.” Seemed very silly at the time, even moreseo in hindsight.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ReaperKK on October 18, 2023, 01:43:16 PM
Oh yea!!! :lol, man he was so salty about that.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on October 18, 2023, 01:53:23 PM
I'm not sure I really blame him for being upset about that tbh I wasnt on his forum so maybe his reaction was over the top, but I'd be pissed too if my project got leaked publicly before the announcement.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: faizoff on October 18, 2023, 02:05:00 PM
I don't think it got leaked per se, if I recall, people put two and two together with various social media postings and sightings. Plus it happened over a period of time I think like a week or two and people were like guessing and strongly implying the guest members.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: gzarruk on October 18, 2023, 02:08:49 PM
I agree.


I remember back when they were recording the first album, Mike was trying to keep the lineup a secret. Myself and others figured out the lineup, and that info made it to his forum and he flipped out saying something like “NO ONE GETS TO ANNOUNCE WHO IS IN THIS BAND BUT ME.” Seemed very silly at the time, even moreseo in hindsight.

I replied to one of his original tweets with @Bumblefoot back then and he PM'ed me saying he would ban me if I didn't delete the tweet. Good times :lol
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Metro on October 18, 2023, 02:11:13 PM
I'm not sure I really blame him for being upset about that tbh I wasnt on his forum so maybe his reaction was over the top, but I'd be pissed too if my project got leaked publicly before the announcement.

I understand that, but maybe the best course of action would have been to ignore the rumors and leaks and reveal it when he wants, rather than getting upset and basically confirming the rumors and leaks.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on October 18, 2023, 02:13:08 PM
I'm not sure I really blame him for being upset about that tbh I wasnt on his forum so maybe his reaction was over the top, but I'd be pissed too if my project got leaked publicly before the announcement.

I understand that, but maybe the best course of action would have been to ignore the rumors and leaks and reveal it when he wants, rather than getting upset and basically confirming the rumors and leaks.

Yeah, that's probably a better idea, but I guess it was his forum though so maybe he felt a bit more strongly about putting his foot down.

Honestly, of all the bad PR this bad did when they started, this is the least of my concerns or issues with it all.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bosk1 on October 18, 2023, 02:38:57 PM
Well, and if he wanted to clamp down on it and temporarily delete the posts, he could still have been nice and polite about it rather than respond in the completely offputting and over the top manner that he did.  I can't speak for Metropolaris, but if I were him and posted that, and Mike said something like, "I appreciate the enthusiasm, but PLEASE don't post any unsanctioned leaks just yet.  It's unfortunate that that got out there before it was intended, and I just want this to happen in a certain way, so please honor my wishes," I would have no problem apologizing and taking it down.  But if he came at me the way he did with others...let's just say he would have gotten a different reaction.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Trav86 on October 18, 2023, 04:03:06 PM
Not to speculate too much, but it seems like a combination of having a few “failed” projects and the Covid lockdown humbled him a little bit. It also helps that he’s almost entirely stopped doing interviews, and recently he ended his Twitter account. The few videos or interviews from him lately he seems a lot different than he was, even compared to the old DT days.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: HOF on October 18, 2023, 05:05:06 PM
I agree.


I remember back when they were recording the first album, Mike was trying to keep the lineup a secret. Myself and others figured out the lineup, and that info made it to his forum and he flipped out saying something like “NO ONE GETS TO ANNOUNCE WHO IS IN THIS BAND BUT ME.” Seemed very silly at the time, even moreseo in hindsight.

Yep. I was one of those sleuthing for band members. I remember identifying Derek’s studio by the bricks in a picture Mike posted, and then I remember also posting about Bumblefoot’s double neck guitar in a video that I think Derek posted after we knew he was in the band. Then the thread got shut down late at night by the time I came back the next day. What’s so silly about it is that he was sharing enough info for people to track it down, and as a fan himself it seems like he would realize people would try to guess/figure out the band based on the clues he seemed to be dropping.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: TAC on October 18, 2023, 05:07:11 PM
I agree.


I remember back when they were recording the first album, Mike was trying to keep the lineup a secret. Myself and others figured out the lineup, and that info made it to his forum and he flipped out saying something like “NO ONE GETS TO ANNOUNCE WHO IS IN THIS BAND BUT ME.” Seemed very silly at the time, even moreseo in hindsight.

Yep. I was one of those sleuthing for band members. I remember identifying Derek’s studio by the bricks in a picture Mike posted, and then I remember also posting about Bumblefoot’s double neck guitar in a video that I think Derek posted after we knew he was in the band. Then the thread got shut down late at night by the time I came back the next day. What’s so silly about it is that he was sharing enough info for people to track it down, and as a fan himself it seems like he would realize people would try to guess/figure out the band based on the clues he seemed to be dropping.

They should've made it an official internet sleuthing game over it.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Metro on October 18, 2023, 05:11:21 PM
I agree.


I remember back when they were recording the first album, Mike was trying to keep the lineup a secret. Myself and others figured out the lineup, and that info made it to his forum and he flipped out saying something like “NO ONE GETS TO ANNOUNCE WHO IS IN THIS BAND BUT ME.” Seemed very silly at the time, even moreseo in hindsight.

Yep. I was one of those sleuthing for band members. I remember identifying Derek’s studio by the bricks in a picture Mike posted, and then I remember also posting about Bumblefoot’s double neck guitar in a video that I think Derek posted after we knew he was in the band. Then the thread got shut down late at night by the time I came back the next day. What’s so silly about it is that he was sharing enough info for people to track it down, and as a fan himself it seems like he would realize people would try to guess/figure out the band based on the clues he seemed to be dropping.


I was the one that figured out it was Bumblefoot  :lol Derek’s keyboard tech posted a video on Instagram showing off Derek’s rig, and at the very last split second you could see Bumblefoot and his guitar.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: HOF on October 18, 2023, 05:25:12 PM
I agree.


I remember back when they were recording the first album, Mike was trying to keep the lineup a secret. Myself and others figured out the lineup, and that info made it to his forum and he flipped out saying something like “NO ONE GETS TO ANNOUNCE WHO IS IN THIS BAND BUT ME.” Seemed very silly at the time, even moreseo in hindsight.

Yep. I was one of those sleuthing for band members. I remember identifying Derek’s studio by the bricks in a picture Mike posted, and then I remember also posting about Bumblefoot’s double neck guitar in a video that I think Derek posted after we knew he was in the band. Then the thread got shut down late at night by the time I came back the next day. What’s so silly about it is that he was sharing enough info for people to track it down, and as a fan himself it seems like he would realize people would try to guess/figure out the band based on the clues he seemed to be dropping.


I was the one that figured out it was Bumblefoot  :lol Derek’s keyboard tech posted a video on Instagram showing off Derek’s rig, and at the very last split second you could see Bumblefoot and his guitar.

If you posted it here first, I probably got it from you because I remember checking on the thread here for info too (I was only lurking here at the time). All I remember is that I posted about it possibly being Bumblefoot late at night over at the MP Forum and the next day those posts had been deleted by a mod. At one point he took the forum off line altogether and I remember feeling partially responsible for it and feeling kind of bad about it.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Metro on October 18, 2023, 05:44:21 PM
Yep found the post from 2017. Simpler times.

Paused that video at the last second and caught a quick glimpse of the guitarist.
(https://i.imgur.com/sHuWcYy.png)

Yeah the fact that he shut down his forum because of that whole mess just adds to the silliness.
Hey, maybe now that SOA is done, he’ll reopen his forum  :lol
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: HOF on October 18, 2023, 06:16:23 PM
Yep found the post from 2017. Simpler times.

Paused that video at the last second and caught a quick glimpse of the guitarist.
(https://i.imgur.com/sHuWcYy.png)

Yeah the fact that he shut down his forum because of that whole mess just adds to the silliness.
Hey maybe that SOA is done, he’ll reopen his forum  :lol

Yep, that was where I got it for sure. I hate that the whole MP Forum history is just gone now, but oh well.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ReaperKK on October 18, 2023, 06:25:33 PM
For some reason I thought the MP forum was shut down over something different. Memory isn't what it used to be.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Trav86 on October 18, 2023, 06:38:53 PM
I remember him saying something like “things are out of control” or out of HIS control. Or something like that.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: HOF on October 18, 2023, 06:42:18 PM
For some reason I thought the MP forum was shut down over something different. Memory isn't what it used to be.

I think there were a number of things that lead to him finally pulling the plug. He shut it down temporarily during the SOA sleuthing thing, and then after the album came out I think he got upset by some of the negative comments about it. It was shortly after that I think that he shut it down for good.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Madman Shepherd on October 18, 2023, 10:25:18 PM
Well, and if he wanted to clamp down on it and temporarily delete the posts, he could still have been nice and polite about it rather than respond in the completely offputting and over the top manner that he did.  I can't speak for Metropolaris, but if I were him and posted that, and Mike said something like, "I appreciate the enthusiasm, but PLEASE don't post any unsanctioned leaks just yet.  It's unfortunate that that got out there before it was intended, and I just want this to happen in a certain way, so please honor my wishes," I would have no problem apologizing and taking it down.  But if he came at me the way he did with others...let's just say he would have gotten a different reaction.

I agree. But what if he went this direction and said, "I'm loving this! Keep guessing!" Could have thrown people off the scent. Either way, he would have done exactly what the fans did and tried to guess which goes to show he doesn't always do what the fans want. He does what he wants and often it lines up with what the fans want....but not always.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bosk1 on October 18, 2023, 10:32:43 PM
Yeah, I mean there are any number of ways he could have done it without being rude, and several of those could probably have accomplished his goals better than what he chose.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: SwedishGoose on October 18, 2023, 11:20:15 PM
Not at all sad to see them go.
I listened and found what I heard mediocre.

Prefer almost any of MPs other projects over this so I am glad he can put more effort into other things.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Mladen on October 19, 2023, 12:37:42 AM
I remember him saying something like “things are out of control” or out of HIS control. Or something like that.
I'm pretty sure it was after the release of the Coming home single and people were really hard on the song. He stated that it was too much negativity for him to handle, which is understandable. That was probably the last drop, things had already been tough on the board, I think.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Kwyjibo on October 19, 2023, 01:15:30 AM
There’s a list of great musicians who have stepped up to play on Derek’s records over the years. If he were that much of a POS, why would they keep coming back? It ain’t for the money!

Maybe he knows his place. I'm sure he isn't giving Billy Idol or Zakk Wylde as much shit as he gave Soto.

Or maybe he didn't gave Soto that much shit, he maybe just voiced his opinion strongly. Something I'm sure a lot of musicians in the studio do.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ErHaO on October 19, 2023, 02:49:04 AM
To me it actually seemed they were reasonably successful. Here they were playing in similar venues to other prog metal bands (Haken, Threshold etc.) and the concerts seemed well attended. Their clips got a very good amount of views (many over the millions). But it seems to me in covid times it stranded. And offcourse many of the members are in bands that do well and at least have better forum reception. But when I look at other places, people seem mostly positive (including Dream Theater reddit).

I really like the debut album, the second a bit less. I would have liked to see them live, the clips I saw looked like a good time.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Stadler on October 19, 2023, 06:57:50 AM
Not to speculate too much, but it seems like a combination of having a few “failed” projects and the Covid lockdown humbled him a little bit. It also helps that he’s almost entirely stopped doing interviews, and recently he ended his Twitter account. The few videos or interviews from him lately he seems a lot different than he was, even compared to the old DT days.

I wrote about this a couple weeks ago. I notice this too.  I've got to meet him twice now in the last couple years, and he seems... I don't want to go too far in the other direction. He's not phoning it in, he's not detached, but he's certainly not the gregarious, "aggressive" (in a good way) fan-friendly Mike that seemed in the past to be hip-deep in the fan experience.  He was quiet and polite and reserved in Nashville at Morsefest this past year.  I said something douchey to him - "After all these years, it's still a treat to watch you drum, man" or something like that - and he said "thank you", signed my CD book and just sat there till the next dude came up.   Even typing that I'm thinking "well what did you expect, a hand job?" but it's hard to describe. "Perfunctory" is the best word.  Meanwhile, Neal was laughing, joking, taking impromptu selfies... he was really putting on the ritz.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Awaken on October 19, 2023, 07:18:16 AM
Not to speculate too much, but it seems like a combination of having a few “failed” projects and the Covid lockdown humbled him a little bit. It also helps that he’s almost entirely stopped doing interviews, and recently he ended his Twitter account. The few videos or interviews from him lately he seems a lot different than he was, even compared to the old DT days.

I wrote about this a couple weeks ago. I notice this too.  I've got to meet him twice now in the last couple years, and he seems... I don't want to go too far in the other direction. He's not phoning it in, he's not detached, but he's certainly not the gregarious, "aggressive" (in a good way) fan-friendly Mike that seemed in the past to be hip-deep in the fan experience.  He was quiet and polite and reserved in Nashville at Morsefest this past year.  I said something douchey to him - "After all these years, it's still a treat to watch you drum, man" or something like that - and he said "thank you", signed my CD book and just sat there till the next dude came up.   Even typing that I'm thinking "well what did you expect, a hand job?" but it's hard to describe. "Perfunctory" is the best word.  Meanwhile, Neal was laughing, joking, taking impromptu selfies... he was really putting on the ritz.

Never enough, Bill!  haha
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: DTA on October 19, 2023, 07:30:20 AM
He’s probably just burned out on it all but it’s been too much a part of his life to stop working and retire.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Stadler on October 19, 2023, 07:33:14 AM
Not to speculate too much, but it seems like a combination of having a few “failed” projects and the Covid lockdown humbled him a little bit. It also helps that he’s almost entirely stopped doing interviews, and recently he ended his Twitter account. The few videos or interviews from him lately he seems a lot different than he was, even compared to the old DT days.

I wrote about this a couple weeks ago. I notice this too.  I've got to meet him twice now in the last couple years, and he seems... I don't want to go too far in the other direction. He's not phoning it in, he's not detached, but he's certainly not the gregarious, "aggressive" (in a good way) fan-friendly Mike that seemed in the past to be hip-deep in the fan experience.  He was quiet and polite and reserved in Nashville at Morsefest this past year.  I said something douchey to him - "After all these years, it's still a treat to watch you drum, man" or something like that - and he said "thank you", signed my CD book and just sat there till the next dude came up.   Even typing that I'm thinking "well what did you expect, a hand job?" but it's hard to describe. "Perfunctory" is the best word.  Meanwhile, Neal was laughing, joking, taking impromptu selfies... he was really putting on the ritz.

Never enough, Bill!  haha
HAHA, I know!   In a church, no less!!  :)

Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on October 19, 2023, 08:33:06 AM
To me it actually seemed they were reasonably successful. Here they were playing in similar venues to other prog metal bands (Haken, Threshold etc.) and the concerts seemed well attended. Their clips got a very good amount of views (many over the millions). But it seems to me in covid times it stranded. And offcourse many of the members are in bands that do well and at least have better forum reception. But when I look at other places, people seem mostly positive (including Dream Theater reddit).

I really like the debut album, the second a bit less. I would have liked to see them live, the clips I saw looked like a good time.

It's no shock to me that people outside this forum and the hardcore MP fan base have different views on the music.  I doubt any of the general fan base cares about the stuff said and the way the band acted around the time of the debut album.  People here clearly remember and it has likely had an affect. 

SOA played a 500 capacity NYC venue.  Not that different than TWD or any of MP's other projects.  It was well attended too that night.  I always said the potential was through the roof with this band and I don't really think it was a total failure due to them actually putting on great shows to a respectable fan base.  Just needed more time IMO and honestly given Billy's age plus everyone's schedule, time is just not realistic for them.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: gzarruk on October 19, 2023, 09:21:20 AM
I was hoping they'd move on with Felipe Andreoli as their new bassist after their short tour last year, but they disbanded instead :lol
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Madman Shepherd on October 19, 2023, 09:44:16 AM
To me it actually seemed they were reasonably successful. Here they were playing in similar venues to other prog metal bands (Haken, Threshold etc.) and the concerts seemed well attended. Their clips got a very good amount of views (many over the millions). But it seems to me in covid times it stranded. And offcourse many of the members are in bands that do well and at least have better forum reception. But when I look at other places, people seem mostly positive (including Dream Theater reddit).

I really like the debut album, the second a bit less. I would have liked to see them live, the clips I saw looked like a good time.

It's no shock to me that people outside this forum and the hardcore MP fan base have different views on the music.  I doubt any of the general fan base cares about the stuff said and the way the band acted around the time of the debut album.  People here clearly remember and it has likely had an affect. 

SOA played a 500 capacity NYC venue.  Not that different than TWD or any of MP's other projects.  It was well attended too that night.  I always said the potential was through the roof with this band and I don't really think it was a total failure due to them actually putting on great shows to a respectable fan base.  Just needed more time IMO and honestly given Billy's age plus everyone's schedule, time is just not realistic for them.

I think TWD does respectable numbers in smaller markets too. SOA attendance drops off in those. I remember seeing one place that looked like nothing more than a big bar and even derek said he was going to have trouble fitting his rig on some stages.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Skeever on October 19, 2023, 05:40:45 PM
I think that people are on the right track with this. And he was not really trying to build a second DT. He was just expecting his fans would come along with him and that he would do something new that would be bigger and more accessible to general audiences. I wonder if playing larger venues and being in a band that had radio play and better public recognition got to him with A7X.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Trav86 on October 19, 2023, 06:15:26 PM
I think that people are on the right track with this. And he was not really trying to build a second DT. He was just expecting his fans would come along with him and that he would do something new that would be bigger and more accessible to general audiences. I wonder if playing larger venues and being in a band that had radio play and better public recognition got to him with A7X.

I think so. I think he had that taste of mainstream success that he always wanted and when he thought he had the gig, it rug was pulled out from under him. Then he wanted to go back to DT and they were like “no thanks”. I’m sure that’s affected him quite a bit.

Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: abydos on October 20, 2023, 06:45:26 AM
With very few exceptions, the whole is greater than the sum of its parts. And MP wasn't the exception in DT's case. However, after the first album without him, which kind of seemed like an improvement, they kept doing more of the same and lost me entirely. At least I realized that MP wasn't the "problem" with DT - it was me.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Stadler on October 20, 2023, 07:38:59 AM
I think that people are on the right track with this. And he was not really trying to build a second DT. He was just expecting his fans would come along with him and that he would do something new that would be bigger and more accessible to general audiences. I wonder if playing larger venues and being in a band that had radio play and better public recognition got to him with A7X.

I think so. I think he had that taste of mainstream success that he always wanted and when he thought he had the gig, it rug was pulled out from under him. Then he wanted to go back to DT and they were like “no thanks”. I’m sure that’s affected him quite a bit.

For better or worse, I think that's exactly right.  Around the time of Adrenaline Mob, there was a lot of chatter on the MP Forum about the relative merits of bands like Disturbed, and what not, and their achievement of platinum levels (as compared with the more modest sales of a Dream Theater which aren't even gold, probably less than half that).  I got the distinct vibe that the idea of Amob (if not the mutherfuckin' psychosane execution) was to achieve that next level.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on October 20, 2023, 08:25:37 AM
I think that people are on the right track with this. And he was not really trying to build a second DT. He was just expecting his fans would come along with him and that he would do something new that would be bigger and more accessible to general audiences. I wonder if playing larger venues and being in a band that had radio play and better public recognition got to him with A7X.

I always wondered if SOA went out on a support tour for a bigger band if that would have helped win over fans.  Their live show was good enough that I thought they could.  Imagine they got the opening slot on a summer shed tour supporting Disturbed or something?  Or even A7X?  Put them in front of rock fans who have no idea who they are and let their master musicianship take over.  Too bad we'll never know. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Madman Shepherd on October 20, 2023, 08:39:42 AM
With very few exceptions, the whole is greater than the sum of its parts. And MP wasn't the exception in DT's case. However, after the first album without him, which kind of seemed like an improvement, they kept doing more of the same and lost me entirely. At least I realized that MP wasn't the "problem" with DT - it was me.

Fascinating comment. What do you mean by that specifically though.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: HOF on October 20, 2023, 08:56:14 AM
I think that people are on the right track with this. And he was not really trying to build a second DT. He was just expecting his fans would come along with him and that he would do something new that would be bigger and more accessible to general audiences. I wonder if playing larger venues and being in a band that had radio play and better public recognition got to him with A7X.

I think so. I think he had that taste of mainstream success that he always wanted and when he thought he had the gig, it rug was pulled out from under him. Then he wanted to go back to DT and they were like “no thanks”. I’m sure that’s affected him quite a bit.

For better or worse, I think that's exactly right.  Around the time of Adrenaline Mob, there was a lot of chatter on the MP Forum about the relative merits of bands like Disturbed, and what not, and their achievement of platinum levels (as compared with the more modest sales of a Dream Theater which aren't even gold, probably less than half that).  I got the distinct vibe that the idea of Amob (if not the mutherfuckin' psychosane execution) was to achieve that next level.

I think The Winery Dogs were kind of that band with a little more commercial success (they were being played on Monday Night Football, the tours seemed to do well, etc.). SOA was originally conceived to fill the time while Ritchie was doing solo stuff. I know Mike made some statements that TWD were the band he wanted to really focus on and develop. SOA always seemed kind of thrown together by comparison.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Trav86 on October 20, 2023, 10:35:47 AM
I think that people are on the right track with this. And he was not really trying to build a second DT. He was just expecting his fans would come along with him and that he would do something new that would be bigger and more accessible to general audiences. I wonder if playing larger venues and being in a band that had radio play and better public recognition got to him with A7X.

I think so. I think he had that taste of mainstream success that he always wanted and when he thought he had the gig, it rug was pulled out from under him. Then he wanted to go back to DT and they were like “no thanks”. I’m sure that’s affected him quite a bit.

For better or worse, I think that's exactly right.  Around the time of Adrenaline Mob, there was a lot of chatter on the MP Forum about the relative merits of bands like Disturbed, and what not, and their achievement of platinum levels (as compared with the more modest sales of a Dream Theater which aren't even gold, probably less than half that).  I got the distinct vibe that the idea of Amob (if not the mutherfuckin' psychosane execution) was to achieve that next level.

I think The Winery Dogs were kind of that band with a little more commercial success (they were being played on Monday Night Football, the tours seemed to do well, etc.). SOA was originally conceived to fill the time while Ritchie was doing solo stuff. I know Mike made some statements that TWD were the band he wanted to really focus on and develop. SOA always seemed kind of thrown together by comparison.

Yeah because TWD is relatively successful.  They’re just a good rock band. Not trying to be a hard rock/prog metal band.  Or whatever SOA is trying to be.

And I don’t think a coincidence that he put together a band like AMOB right after losing the AX7 gig. Obviously going for that style.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Madman Shepherd on October 20, 2023, 11:00:32 AM
I think that people are on the right track with this. And he was not really trying to build a second DT. He was just expecting his fans would come along with him and that he would do something new that would be bigger and more accessible to general audiences. I wonder if playing larger venues and being in a band that had radio play and better public recognition got to him with A7X.

I think so. I think he had that taste of mainstream success that he always wanted and when he thought he had the gig, it rug was pulled out from under him. Then he wanted to go back to DT and they were like “no thanks”. I’m sure that’s affected him quite a bit.

For better or worse, I think that's exactly right.  Around the time of Adrenaline Mob, there was a lot of chatter on the MP Forum about the relative merits of bands like Disturbed, and what not, and their achievement of platinum levels (as compared with the more modest sales of a Dream Theater which aren't even gold, probably less than half that).  I got the distinct vibe that the idea of Amob (if not the mutherfuckin' psychosane execution) was to achieve that next level.

I think The Winery Dogs were kind of that band with a little more commercial success (they were being played on Monday Night Football, the tours seemed to do well, etc.). SOA was originally conceived to fill the time while Ritchie was doing solo stuff. I know Mike made some statements that TWD were the band he wanted to really focus on and develop. SOA always seemed kind of thrown together by comparison.

Not to nitpick but the Winery Dogs was literally thrown together. :lol I mean, Eddie Trunk was like, hey go jam with Ritchie and it took off.

SOA was relatively planned. Obviously Derek and Mike but also Mike had wanted to work with Bumble for a while. I think k Mike had been plotting this with Soto since he opened for Winery Dogs.

I would say that Billy was kind of thrown into the mix though.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Kram on October 20, 2023, 11:03:50 AM
I think that people are on the right track with this. And he was not really trying to build a second DT. He was just expecting his fans would come along with him and that he would do something new that would be bigger and more accessible to general audiences. I wonder if playing larger venues and being in a band that had radio play and better public recognition got to him with A7X.

I think so. I think he had that taste of mainstream success that he always wanted and when he thought he had the gig, it rug was pulled out from under him. Then he wanted to go back to DT and they were like “no thanks”. I’m sure that’s affected him quite a bit.

For better or worse, I think that's exactly right.  Around the time of Adrenaline Mob, there was a lot of chatter on the MP Forum about the relative merits of bands like Disturbed, and what not, and their achievement of platinum levels (as compared with the more modest sales of a Dream Theater which aren't even gold, probably less than half that).  I got the distinct vibe that the idea of Amob (if not the mutherfuckin' psychosane execution) was to achieve that next level.
Man, he really miscalculated that one then lol. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: MirrorMask on October 20, 2023, 12:55:18 PM
Are we all ignoring that Flying Colors is a thing? a band with Steve Morse that writes catchy songs? that should have been the breakthrough band in a just and fair world. I mean, give the song Kayla to any other estabilished artist and see how it tops every chart.

Maybe they should have stuck with the concept of great musicians writing "simple" music rather than turning it into the Neal Morse Band Lite Version.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: abydos on October 20, 2023, 01:09:27 PM
With very few exceptions, the whole is greater than the sum of its parts. And MP wasn't the exception in DT's case. However, after the first album without him, which kind of seemed like an improvement, they kept doing more of the same and lost me entirely. At least I realized that MP wasn't the "problem" with DT - it was me.

Fascinating comment. What do you mean by that specifically though.

Sure, it's in the context of playing in a bigger band getting in the head of MP and then him thinking that the fans will follow him in bigger numbers that someone posted.

Leading up to his departure, I really thought Mike was leading DT in a more generic and boring direction. I perceived them as by the numbers in large parts, especially his conflict with LaBrie. When he left, I thought that was a blessing for DT and the album leading to that was a "return to form" of sorts. At least to me, it sounded more fresh, but after that things went just as they had been before that. Took me a while and seeing them twice live to realize that my tastes had changed with regards to the band more so than them being by the numbers or "uninspired". They still sound like that to me, but seeing thousands of people around me losing their shit to music from the last few albums gave me a bit of a reality check.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Metro on October 20, 2023, 01:19:23 PM
I don’t have a source on this, but I recall MP saying something along the lines of “SOA is what DT would sound like if I had my way.”
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Trav86 on October 20, 2023, 01:37:13 PM
I don’t have a source on this, but I recall MP saying something along the lines of “SOA is what DT would sound like if I had my way.”

:lol
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ReaperKK on October 20, 2023, 01:55:52 PM
I don’t have a source on this, but I recall MP saying something along the lines of “SOA is what DT would sound like if I had my way.”

:lol

If that's the case I'm really happy he didn't have his way
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Cocopjojo on October 20, 2023, 06:04:26 PM
Are we all ignoring that Flying Colors is a thing? a band with Steve Morse that writes catchy songs? that should have been the breakthrough band in a just and fair world. I mean, give the song Kayla to any other estabilished artist and see how it tops every chart.

Maybe they should have stuck with the concept of great musicians writing "simple" music rather than turning it into the Neal Morse Band Lite Version.
I assumed that since the first album didn't come even remotely close to having any mainstream success, then they just reverted to doing what they enjoy and are comfortable with.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Madman Shepherd on October 20, 2023, 07:18:11 PM
With very few exceptions, the whole is greater than the sum of its parts. And MP wasn't the exception in DT's case. However, after the first album without him, which kind of seemed like an improvement, they kept doing more of the same and lost me entirely. At least I realized that MP wasn't the "problem" with DT - it was me.

Fascinating comment. What do you mean by that specifically though.

Sure, it's in the context of playing in a bigger band getting in the head of MP and then him thinking that the fans will follow him in bigger numbers that someone posted.

Leading up to his departure, I really thought Mike was leading DT in a more generic and boring direction. I perceived them as by the numbers in large parts, especially his conflict with LaBrie. When he left, I thought that was a blessing for DT and the album leading to that was a "return to form" of sorts. At least to me, it sounded more fresh, but after that things went just as they had been before that. Took me a while and seeing them twice live to realize that my tastes had changed with regards to the band more so than them being by the numbers or "uninspired". They still sound like that to me, but seeing thousands of people around me losing their shit to music from the last few albums gave me a bit of a reality check.

Ah cool. That's what I thought. I feel like a lot of people grow out of music and feel like it must be the band.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: HOF on October 20, 2023, 08:04:28 PM
I had a similar experience with DT. From SFAM on, it felt like I liked each album a little less than the previous one. When I heard Octavarium I really started to think the band’s and my tastes were just diverging too far. Then SC confirmed that suspicion. I do remember also thinking MP might have something to do with it (he was becoming more and more about metal over that period, and I was becoming less and less about it). But his leaving didn’t do anything to change my interest in DT’s new music, and I’ve followed MP’s subsequent projects with much more interest than DT.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: RodrigoAltaf on October 20, 2023, 09:51:12 PM
Are we all ignoring that Flying Colors is a thing? a band with Steve Morse that writes catchy songs? that should have been the breakthrough band in a just and fair world. I mean, give the song Kayla to any other estabilished artist and see how it tops every chart.

Maybe they should have stuck with the concept of great musicians writing "simple" music rather than turning it into the Neal Morse Band Lite Version.

Flying Colors was always limited by Steve's schedule with Deep Purple.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Madman Shepherd on October 20, 2023, 11:35:50 PM
I don’t have a source on this, but I recall MP saying something along the lines of “SOA is what DT would sound like if I had my way.”

You sure about that? I kept up with SOA pretty well and I don't remember him saying anything like that.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Schurftkut on October 21, 2023, 01:13:27 AM
i do, it was all part of him trying to one-up what DT was doing, and him wanting to show that this new band is heavier etc than DT with the high vocals and ipad solos
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: gzarruk on October 21, 2023, 08:05:28 AM
I remember reading that at some point too. He said something like that's the direction he would've taken the band towards after BC&SL.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Trav86 on October 21, 2023, 08:15:25 AM
I remember reading that at some point too. He said something like that's the direction he would've taken the band towards after BC&SL.

I would take ADTOE over Sons of Apollo eight days a week.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: TAC on October 21, 2023, 08:16:30 AM
I remember reading that at some point too. He said something like that's the direction he would've taken the band towards after BC&SL.

I would take ADTOE over Sons of Apollo eight days a week.

There's not a single post MP DT album that I wouldn't take over SOA.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: nick_z on October 21, 2023, 09:03:36 AM
I remember reading that at some point too. He said something like that's the direction he would've taken the band towards after BC&SL.

I would take ADTOE over Sons of Apollo eight days a week.

There's not a single post MP DT album that I wouldn't take over SOA.

While I did enjoy SOA's debut, I wholeheartedly agree with all of this.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Madman Shepherd on October 22, 2023, 10:18:06 PM
I would take any post-MP DT release over any post-DT MP release.

Wait, shit...I forgot The Astonishing exists.

This just got difficult.

Well, I like three songs on TA and they're pretty strong. But that's still maybe 5-10% of the album.

I like half of SOA's PS but they're not particularly strong, just really good.

I like most of SOA's MMXX but I have the same view.

So yeah, it's almost a wash with that one.

But the rest of MP's catalog? Never did much for me.

Embarassingly I kind of like Adrenaline Mob's Undaunted and their cover of Come Undone.

Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Fritzinger on October 24, 2023, 01:15:41 AM
Well, there's still The Similitude Of A Dream and The Great Adventure, which are fantastic in my opinion. And much better than DT12 for instance.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: abydos on October 24, 2023, 02:32:47 AM
I'd take the first 40 seconds of At Wit's End over anything MP post-DT. :D Basically, DT was the only music interest "we" shared. I was excited for Adrenaline Mob at first but when I heard it - it didn't vibe with me at all.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Madman Shepherd on October 24, 2023, 05:07:43 PM
I really wanted to like Metal Allegiance but it never did much for me.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Grappler on October 24, 2023, 08:06:17 PM
I really wanted to like Metal Allegiance but it never did much for me.

I like the two records, but they just write songs that sound like the singer's main bands.  I really want them to throw each singer a curve ball and have them do something completely different.

Their live shows look like they're a ton of fun though. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: DTwwbwMP on October 24, 2023, 08:59:19 PM
I would take any post-MP DT release over any post-DT MP release.

My post-MP DT & post-DT MP release rankings:
NMB - Similitude of a Dream
Dream Theater - A Dramatic Turn of Events
NMB - The Grand Experiment
NMB - The Great Adventure
Transatlantic - Kaleidoscope
Sons of Apollo - Psychotic Symphony
Flying Colors
Neal Morse - Testimony 2
Flying Colors - Second Nature
Neal Morse - Momentum
Dream Theater - Dream Theater
Sons of Apollo - MMXX
Transatlantic - The Absolute Universe
The Winery Dogs
John Petrucci - Terminal Velocity
NMB - Innocence & Danger
LTE - 3
Dream Theater - A View From The Top of The World
The Winery Dogs - Hot Streak
Flying Colors - Third Degree
Bigelf - Into The Maelstrom
Dream Theater - Distance Over Time
Adrenaline Mob - Omerta
The Winery Dogs - III
Dream Theater - The Astonishing
*
*any post DT MP releases that rank lower than The Astonishing are not worth mentioning! :tdwn
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Metro on October 24, 2023, 09:05:16 PM
I don't feel like ranking all the albums, but I'll rank his post-DT projects. Not counting Transatlantic or LTE as they were started before he left.

1. NMB
2. Flying Colors
3. The Winery Dogs
4. PSMS
5. Sons of Apollo
6. Metal Allegiance
7. Adrenaline Mob
8. Getting kicked in the teeth
9. BPMD
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: HOF on October 24, 2023, 09:11:26 PM
I mostly just like The Winery Dogs and Flying Colors, but I really enjoyed at least the first 2 albums from both of those (need to revisit the third TWD again). Don’t really care for any of his other projects (or the post-split DT either).
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bosk1 on October 24, 2023, 10:37:57 PM
I'll play.  Just my top 10:

1.  Dream Theater - A Dramatic Turn of Events
2.  Dream Theater - Dream Theater
3.  NMB - The Great Adventure
4.  Dream Theater - A View From The Top of The World
5.  Dream Theater - Distance Over Time
6.  Dream Theater - The Astonishing
7.  NMB - Similitude of a Dream
8.  Transatlantic - The Absolute Universe
9.  Sons of Apollo - Psychotic Symphony
10.  NMB - The Grand Experiment

I can honestly say that during this stretch of time, DT and projects MP were part of released a LOT of my favorite music.  But all of the DT releases are at my very top.  Some of the stuff Mike was involved in was fantastic.  Others were a miss for me.  Others were in between.  And that's all okay.  Bottom line is that a lot of great music was released under a lot of different banners.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Fritzinger on October 25, 2023, 07:26:23 AM
I mostly just like The Winery Dogs and Flying Colors, but I really enjoyed at least the first 2 albums from both of those (need to revisit the third TWD again). Don’t really care for any of his other projects (or the post-split DT either).

Not even the Neal Morse Band albums? I thought they seem like something you'd like.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on October 25, 2023, 08:15:34 AM
well I guess we all know why Bumblefoot said what he said recently.  Looks like MP will be too busy for SOA.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: gzarruk on October 25, 2023, 08:20:47 AM
This is gonna piss Derek even more :rollin
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: hefdaddy42 on October 25, 2023, 08:39:10 AM
This is gonna piss Derek even more :rollin
That's fine.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: MirrorMask on October 25, 2023, 08:40:36 AM
This is gonna piss Derek even more :rollin

I thought about it as well  :biggrin: :lol
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bosk1 on October 25, 2023, 08:52:13 AM
But Derek already issued his press release!
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: HOF on October 25, 2023, 09:00:22 AM
I mostly just like The Winery Dogs and Flying Colors, but I really enjoyed at least the first 2 albums from both of those (need to revisit the third TWD again). Don’t really care for any of his other projects (or the post-split DT either).

Not even the Neal Morse Band albums? I thought they seem like something you'd like.

It’s complicated! I love Spock’s Beard and the first two Transatlantic albums are among my favorites. But Neal’s prog solo work and NMB stuff just doesn’t resonate with me for reasons I don’t fully understand. I am very fond of Neal as a person and musician, and I like a lot of the other stuff he’s done since leaving Spock’s (I enjoy his singer songwriter stuff, the DMJ album, etc.), but can’t get into NMB at all. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: DTwwbwMP on October 25, 2023, 09:20:18 AM
But Derek already issued his press release!

???
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on October 25, 2023, 09:30:39 AM
But Derek already issued his press release!

 :lol
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ReaperKK on October 25, 2023, 09:33:26 AM
This is gonna piss Derek even more :rollin

I thought about it as well  :biggrin: :lol

People think about Derek?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Mladen on October 25, 2023, 09:34:54 AM
But Derek already issued his press release!
Excellent.  :lol
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Madman Shepherd on October 25, 2023, 09:40:46 AM
Looks like Sons of Apollo are taking a five year break.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: hefdaddy42 on October 25, 2023, 12:10:40 PM
Looks like Sons of Apollo are taking a five year break.
:lol
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Stadler on October 25, 2023, 12:36:13 PM
I mostly just like The Winery Dogs and Flying Colors, but I really enjoyed at least the first 2 albums from both of those (need to revisit the third TWD again). Don’t really care for any of his other projects (or the post-split DT either).

Not even the Neal Morse Band albums? I thought they seem like something you'd like.

It’s complicated! I love Spock’s Beard and the first two Transatlantic albums are among my favorites. But Neal’s prog solo work and NMB stuff just doesn’t resonate with me for reasons I don’t fully understand. I am very fond of Neal as a person and musician, and I like a lot of the other stuff he’s done since leaving Spock’s (I enjoy his singer songwriter stuff, the DMJ album, etc.), but can’t get into NMB at all.

Did you listen to Innocence and Danger, or were you already "out" and passed?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: HOF on October 25, 2023, 01:26:09 PM
I gave most of it a spin. I think I remember sort of liking Bird on a Wire, and maybe another track or two. Something about the DT meets Neal Morse aspect of it doesn’t work for me.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: bosk1 on October 25, 2023, 01:28:49 PM
I love most of what NMB has done.  But the last album is easily my least favorite, and might be my least favorite Neal Morse release of all except Lifeline.  It did nothing for me at all.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Kocak on October 25, 2023, 01:38:36 PM
This is gonna piss Derek even more :rollin

Sherinian and Mangini project anyone?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: gzarruk on October 25, 2023, 01:51:16 PM
This is gonna piss Derek even more :rollin

Sherinian and Mangini project anyone?

I'm in as long as it doesn't involve Soto ;D
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: MinistroRaven on October 25, 2023, 03:10:27 PM

Does this means that Soto knew about MP rejoining the band?
(https://i.imgur.com/A3ejmvW.jpg)
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: HOF on October 25, 2023, 03:19:18 PM
You know, maybe Jeff and Billy and others knew but were sworn to secrecy, and when Billy was asked on FB about it he didn't know the official word was out yet so he was just doing his best to cover.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on October 26, 2023, 09:35:26 AM
Yeah, with Melody also saying she knew, there was no way Billy didn't know.  He was just playing on FB since that was a private message.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: MirrorMask on October 26, 2023, 09:44:11 AM
Yeah, with Melody also saying she knew, there was no way Billy didn't know.

It's possible, but.... I wouldn't compare what MP's own daughter knows, with what a band member and collegue knows  :D
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on October 26, 2023, 09:45:51 AM
Yeah, with Melody also saying she knew, there was no way Billy didn't know.

It's possible, but.... I wouldn't compare what MP's own daughter knows, with what a band member and collegue knows  :D

You are right, but JSS, who isn't on tour with MP right now but also was in SOA with Billy and Mike, knew.  So just adding an example of more people admitting they knew makes me think Billy knew too.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: KevShmev on October 26, 2023, 09:54:10 AM
Footage was just uncovered of Derek's reaction when he heard the news:

(https://media3.giphy.com/media/v1.Y2lkPTc5MGI3NjExbG40bWFtYWlrNXUxODk3OWk2bjJidGhscThucTN1cGtxOXBhangybCZlcD12MV9pbnRlcm5hbF9naWZfYnlfaWQmY3Q9Zw/4qx6IRdg26uZ3MTtRn/giphy.gif)
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on October 26, 2023, 09:56:14 AM
 :lol has Derek shared anything about this on social media?  Seems musicians across the board are happy for DT/MP and also have shown respect for MM.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ZirconBlue on October 26, 2023, 11:50:56 AM
:lol has Derek shared anything about this on social media?  Seems musicians across the board are happy for DT/MP and also have shown respect for MM.


I saw a Facebook post that claimed that Derek had unfollowed MP on Instagram.  Take that for what it's worth (probably not much).
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Kwyjibo on October 26, 2023, 12:22:23 PM
Since the last SOA record Derek has released two studio record and a live one, so he probably was aware that SOA was finished for quite some time. So not sure why he should be disappointed now that MP rejoined DT.


Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on October 26, 2023, 12:25:37 PM
Since the last SOA record Derek has released two studio record and a live one, so he probably was aware that SOA was finished for quite some time. So not sure why he should be disappointed now that MP rejoined DT.

Yeah, I mostly agree even if I find it funny to think he's pissed.  At the end of the day, Derek has been doing his own thing long before SOA and will continue to do so.  What I do find funny about it all, goes back to his words when SOA started and with MP rejoining DT, it basically makes those early statements look even worse to me. Like, you clearly lost that battle to be the best prog metal band  :lol
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Madman Shepherd on October 26, 2023, 12:27:40 PM
:lol has Derek shared anything about this on social media?  Seems musicians across the board are happy for DT/MP and also have shown respect for MM.


I saw a Facebook post that claimed that Derek had unfollowed MP on Instagram.  Take that for what it's worth (probably not much).

If that's true then that's hilarious.

Maybe Portnoy told him about his plans on a conference call and it gave Sherinian PTSD
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Kwyjibo on October 26, 2023, 12:42:03 PM
Since the last SOA record Derek has released two studio record and a live one, so he probably was aware that SOA was finished for quite some time. So not sure why he should be disappointed now that MP rejoined DT.

Yeah, I mostly agree even if I find it funny to think he's pissed.  At the end of the day, Derek has been doing his own thing long before SOA and will continue to do so.  What I do find funny about it all, goes back to his words when SOA started and with MP rejoining DT, it basically makes those early statements look even worse to me. Like, you clearly lost that battle to be the best prog metal band  :lol

For sure he said some bullshit back then and I think Mike did so too, if I remember correctly. But I'm not sure if they just wanted to their band to be successful or if they really thought they could surpass DT.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: gzarruk on October 26, 2023, 12:48:22 PM
Oh, I wouldn't doubt Derek's abilitiy to be annoyed at these things, at all :lol
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Stadler on October 26, 2023, 01:01:36 PM
Is it really a thing that SOA is (or was, before yesterday) a live entity?  I kind of thought that everyone sort of tacitly agreed this was a dead horse, but in light of - maybe - some of the things said in the past that we weren't going to dwell on it.  I think it was Bumble that said there has been no discussions about anything after South America.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: MinistroRaven on October 27, 2023, 06:40:43 PM
JSS pissed with MP for not telling him
https://blabbermouth.net/news/jeff-scott-soto-says-mike-portnoy-didnt-tell-him-he-was-rejoining-dream-theater-im-pissed-off-at-him
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: HOF on October 27, 2023, 07:49:29 PM
I’d think he would understand that this was a closely guarded secret. But oh well. I’m sure he’ll get over that. Guessing Billy Sheehan really didn’t know either then.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Mebert78 on October 27, 2023, 08:48:21 PM
I wonder if Richie Kotzen even knew.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: gzarruk on November 21, 2023, 01:43:07 PM
Both Derek and Bumblefoot have shared this snippet from a new band, Whom Gods Destroy: https://www.facebook.com/wgdestroy/videos/325804733490175/
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: HOF on November 21, 2023, 01:44:20 PM
Both Derek and Bumblefoot have shared this snippet from a new band, Whom Gods Destroy: https://www.facebook.com/wgdestroy/videos/325804733490175/

Saw that and was trying to figure out if it was the name of a new band, or a new song, or a new album, or what. Sounds cool enough for those few seconds. Singer will probably make or break it if there is one.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: gzarruk on November 21, 2023, 01:48:26 PM
Both Derek and Bumblefoot have shared this snippet from a new band, Whom Gods Destroy: https://www.facebook.com/wgdestroy/videos/325804733490175/

Saw that and was trying to figure out if it was the name of a new band, or a new song, or a new album, or what. Sounds cool enough for those few seconds. Singer will probably make or break it if there is one.

They shared the video from a separate page named Whom Gods Destroy, so most likely a band name.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ProfessorPeart on November 21, 2023, 01:54:00 PM
Added to the article after JSS took them to task, again:

**Update**: After this article was originally published, Jeff took to the comments section below to clarify that his remark about being "pissed off" at Mike was not meant to be taken seriously. "I said it sarcastically WHILE I was nothing BUT positive about my friend and DT and SOA," he explained. "Even my social media post was ALL about props for both Mike's and the portions I made about 'me' were sarcasm as well a way to reply to the 'future of SOA' without having to every time I will be asked! … In the interview you can hear me chuckle after I said I was pissed off at Mike, it was NOT literal, it was a goof but this fucking page just loves stirring shit by taking things out of context and makes us all look like tools even when we're replying with boring, non-headline worthy replies!" (Editor's note: The headline of this article was updated to reflect the fact that Jeff's original comment was meant to be "a goof".)
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: goo-goo on November 21, 2023, 02:25:13 PM
Both Derek and Bumblefoot have shared this snippet from a new band, Whom Gods Destroy: https://www.facebook.com/wgdestroy/videos/325804733490175/

Saw that and was trying to figure out if it was the name of a new band, or a new song, or a new album, or what. Sounds cool enough for those few seconds. Singer will probably make or break it if there is one.

They shared the video from a separate page named Whom Gods Destroy, so most likely a band name.

Stoked about this one. My favorite SoA members  :metal
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: MinistroRaven on November 21, 2023, 02:58:50 PM
Both Derek and Bumblefoot have shared this snippet from a new band, Whom Gods Destroy: https://www.facebook.com/wgdestroy/videos/325804733490175/

Saw that and was trying to figure out if it was the name of a new band, or a new song, or a new album, or what. Sounds cool enough for those few seconds. Singer will probably make or break it if there is one.

They shared the video from a separate page named Whom Gods Destroy, so most likely a band name.

Stoked about this one. My favorite SoA members  :metal

Derek's vendetta against Mike P
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: devieira73 on November 21, 2023, 03:01:16 PM
I'm in!! :tup
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: RodrigoAltaf on November 21, 2023, 04:17:03 PM
Both Derek and Bumblefoot have shared this snippet from a new band, Whom Gods Destroy: https://www.facebook.com/wgdestroy/videos/325804733490175/

Saw that and was trying to figure out if it was the name of a new band, or a new song, or a new album, or what. Sounds cool enough for those few seconds. Singer will probably make or break it if there is one.

Yes there is.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Setlist Scotty on November 21, 2023, 05:01:19 PM
The clip sounds good although a little bit generic, but given that it's a 15 second excerpt it's hard to make a good assessment. But "Whom Gods Destroy" is the name of the band? Couldn't they come up with anything less awful than that for the name?  :facepalm:
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: devieira73 on November 21, 2023, 05:47:12 PM
Whom Gods Destroy is at least a more humble name that Whom destroys Gods! ;D
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: gzarruk on November 21, 2023, 06:03:05 PM
Both Derek and Bumblefoot have shared this snippet from a new band, Whom Gods Destroy: https://www.facebook.com/wgdestroy/videos/325804733490175/

Saw that and was trying to figure out if it was the name of a new band, or a new song, or a new album, or what. Sounds cool enough for those few seconds. Singer will probably make or break it if there is one.

Yes there is.

They've actually been teasing it for a while. In fact there's a post by Derek from Aug.7th that reveals who's the singer, but I'm on my phone right now so can't link it properly.

In case you don't mind the spoilers:
It's Dino Jelusick.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: goo-goo on November 21, 2023, 06:05:02 PM
Both Derek and Bumblefoot have shared this snippet from a new band, Whom Gods Destroy: https://www.facebook.com/wgdestroy/videos/325804733490175/

Saw that and was trying to figure out if it was the name of a new band, or a new song, or a new album, or what. Sounds cool enough for those few seconds. Singer will probably make or break it if there is one.

Yes there is.

They've actually been teasing it for a while. In fact there's a post by Derek from Aug.7th that reveals who's the singer, but I'm on my phone right now so can't link it properly.

In case you don't mind the spoilers:
It's Dino Jelusick.

Fucking awesome! Huuuge fan of this singer!
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: devieira73 on November 21, 2023, 06:07:09 PM
Excellent choice! Any hint for the drummer and bassist?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: gzarruk on November 21, 2023, 06:18:47 PM
Here's Derek's post, btw: https://www.facebook.com/dereksherinianofficial/posts/pfbid02TVQZRPHpXRUhfnFVnFWvgeRknsPR5Sq8xF9FW6819jCEpJ67gbGjecGLCakeqgmDl

Excellent choice! Any hint for the drummer and bassist?

And no idea who the bassist is, but the singer teased the drummer and I have a pretty good idea of who he is based on the photo and I guess you might too ;) : https://www.facebook.com/DinoJelusick/posts/pfbid025R8toWXsFNuPQ3egbhvMUyYF2S3tMC47TR3q5p2VTVJCoJZz3sgVJDU3cj7fbSLZl

I kinda wish it was Mangini, though :lol
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: devieira73 on November 21, 2023, 06:38:03 PM
I guess I recognized the drummer! Another excellent choice!! So every body lives in LA?
Cool they are thinking more in talented new blood than super well known musicians.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: devieira73 on November 21, 2023, 08:32:07 PM
It would be perfect if the bassist would be Angra's Felipe Andreoli. He's an amazing bass player and great composer. He played the last shows of SoA, in Brazil and the tour availability of him and Bruno is the same.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ProfessorPeart on November 21, 2023, 08:46:22 PM
I'll buy anything with that singer. Literally listening to his new album as I type this.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Stadler on November 22, 2023, 07:25:17 AM
Both Derek and Bumblefoot have shared this snippet from a new band, Whom Gods Destroy: https://www.facebook.com/wgdestroy/videos/325804733490175/

Saw that and was trying to figure out if it was the name of a new band, or a new song, or a new album, or what. Sounds cool enough for those few seconds. Singer will probably make or break it if there is one.

They shared the video from a separate page named Whom Gods Destroy, so most likely a band name.

Stoked about this one. My favorite SoA members  :metal

Derek's vendetta against Mike P

Boy, he sure told HIM!   :)
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Schurftkut on November 22, 2023, 07:30:33 AM
https://www.facebook.com/whomgodsdestroy/
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: WilliamMunny on November 22, 2023, 07:46:32 AM
https://www.facebook.com/whomgodsdestroy/

Yikes...it took me wayyyyy too long to realize that wasn't Derek's new band. :rollin
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: gzarruk on November 22, 2023, 08:32:57 AM
Didn't that happen with SOA as well? There was already some random band with the same name out there.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: HOF on November 22, 2023, 09:24:03 AM
LOL, I guess I would have expected it would be safe to name my band "Whom Gods Destroy" too, but don't these guys have Google?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ReaperKK on November 22, 2023, 09:26:45 AM
I haven't listened to the new stuff but "Whom Gods Destroy" is a cool band name, better than SoA IMO.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Stadler on November 22, 2023, 09:28:00 AM
LOL, I guess I would have expected it would be safe to name my band "Whom Gods Destroy" too, but don't these guys have Google?

HAHAHA

Kind of gives new meaning to the name, though, doesn't it?  ;)
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Schurftkut on November 22, 2023, 09:40:24 AM
it's mostly Star Trek links on google, so i guess that's where it came from?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Metro on November 22, 2023, 09:43:56 AM
https://www.facebook.com/whomgodsdestroy/

Yikes...it took me wayyyyy too long to realize that wasn't Derek's new band. :rollin

These guys are gonna have to go back to flippin’ burgers
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: devieira73 on November 22, 2023, 10:05:18 AM
I haven't listened to the new stuff but "Whom Gods Destroy" is a cool band name, better than SoA IMO.

Agreed, SoA is  too much pompous.
The other WGD is on Spotify. How they at least didn't research there? :facepalm:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whom_Gods_Destroy_(Star_Trek:_The_Original_Series)
One of the worst ST episodes! ;D
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Dedalus on November 22, 2023, 10:16:51 AM
https://www.facebook.com/whomgodsdestroy/

Yikes...it took me wayyyyy too long to realize that wasn't Derek's new band. :rollin

For a second I thought Kerry King was in Derek's new band.  :lol
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: hefdaddy42 on November 22, 2023, 12:21:10 PM
It didn't originate in Star Trek.  It comes from the phrase "Whom the gods would destroy, they first make mad", which is derived in part from ancient Greek beginnings, but started being quoted in English in the 1600s.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: devieira73 on November 22, 2023, 03:53:41 PM
It didn't originate in Star Trek.  It comes from the phrase "Whom the gods would destroy, they first make mad", which is derived in part from ancient Greek beginnings, but started being quoted in English in the 1600s.

It makes sense, since a lot of ST episode titles are quotes found in literature. The funny thing is people know these things often by ST or some other reference from pop culture and not because of the original source.
I think Derek is very interested in Greek mythology, so it's more like it indeed came directly from the Greek culture.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: RodrigoAltaf on November 22, 2023, 07:39:48 PM
The bass player is not really well known.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: nikatapi on November 23, 2023, 02:43:39 AM
It didn't originate in Star Trek.  It comes from the phrase "Whom the gods would destroy, they first make mad", which is derived in part from ancient Greek beginnings, but started being quoted in English in the 1600s.

It makes sense, since a lot of ST episode titles are quotes found in literature. The funny thing is people know these things often by ST or some other reference from pop culture and not because of the original source.
I think Derek is very interested in Greek mythology, so it's more like it indeed came directly from the Greek culture.

He is also of Greek (and Armenian) descent so maybe that plays a role as well
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: MirrorMask on November 23, 2023, 04:42:36 AM
It's a needlessly convoluted name for a band anyway.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on November 24, 2023, 08:57:23 AM
I haven't listened to the new stuff but "Whom Gods Destroy" is a cool band name, better than SoA IMO.

If it's better, it's not by much. Not a fan of either names. Whom God's Destory just doesn't roll off the tip of your tongue easily. Maybe ill check out a song or two, but I'd be shocked if I find myself having interest in a Derek project at this point.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Dedalus on November 24, 2023, 03:18:00 PM
We're still not used to the name. With the right timing, even ridiculous names like Between the Buried and Me seem normal. It's only a matter of time.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Orbert on November 24, 2023, 04:17:38 PM
I agree.  Deconstructing and/or criticizing the band's name seems a relatively pointless, though harmless, pursuit.  I generally prefer something short and easy to remember, but anything memorable works.  Whom Gods Destroy is not an uncommon phrase and thus memorable enough, even if it doesn't really roll off the tongue.  Between the Buried and Me is so awkward that it practically forces you to remember it.  Or not.  But if the music's good, you remember the band name, whatever it is.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: tuto on January 18, 2024, 09:05:09 PM
Hadn't logged in here for a while... Did I miss something about Derek being pissed at Mike? LOL
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: HOF on January 18, 2024, 09:28:07 PM
Hadn't logged in here for a while... Did I miss something about Derek being pissed at Mike? LOL

Don’t remember now, but MP is back Dream Theater if you haven’t heard!
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: tuto on January 18, 2024, 09:31:57 PM
Hadn't logged in here for a while... Did I miss something about Derek being pissed at Mike? LOL

Don’t remember now, but MP is back Dream Theater if you haven’t heard!

Yeah I know! I meant that I hadn't kept up with any more SOA news since they split ;D
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: hefdaddy42 on January 19, 2024, 07:17:06 AM
Hadn't logged in here for a while... Did I miss something about Derek being pissed at Mike? LOL
Derek is pissed at everyone who isn't actively playing in his current project.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on January 19, 2024, 07:36:43 AM
Hadn't logged in here for a while... Did I miss something about Derek being pissed at Mike? LOL
Derek is pissed at everyone who isn't actively playing in his current project.

 :lol but he also looks pissed in the opening sequence for his new band's music video
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ReaperKK on January 19, 2024, 08:05:05 AM
Hadn't logged in here for a while... Did I miss something about Derek being pissed at Mike? LOL
Derek is pissed at everyone who isn't actively playing in his current project.

 :lol but he also looks pissed in the opening sequence for his new band's music video

I think that's just his resting Derek face
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on January 19, 2024, 09:01:40 AM
Hadn't logged in here for a while... Did I miss something about Derek being pissed at Mike? LOL
Derek is pissed at everyone who isn't actively playing in his current project.

 :lol but he also looks pissed in the opening sequence for his new band's music video

I think that's just his resting Derek face

Yeah, I've come to believe that must be the face, but still  :lol
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ZirconBlue on January 19, 2024, 09:37:17 AM
I think he's going for insouciant, but ends up just looking annoyed.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: hefdaddy42 on January 19, 2024, 09:57:07 AM
Hadn't logged in here for a while... Did I miss something about Derek being pissed at Mike? LOL
Derek is pissed at everyone who isn't actively playing in his current project.

 :lol but he also looks pissed in the opening sequence for his new band's music video
I wouldn't know, I'm not watching that shit.
.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Orbert on January 19, 2024, 10:04:08 AM
I think he's going for insouciant, but ends up just looking annoyed.

Yay, a new word!  Good one, too.

Derek's always been like that.  Always trying to present himself as cool and/or badass, but just kinda looks annoyed or pissed off all the time instead.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Mebert78 on February 26, 2024, 02:11:25 PM
Portnoy's response on LounderSound.com's Facebook thread regarding Bumblefoot's thoughts on the demise of Sons of Apollo:

MP: Obviously Ron is (discreetly) pointing the finger at me (and possibly Billy as well?), but I must publicly squash this rhetoric that is implying Sons Of Apollo’s demise had anything to do with me rejoining Dream Theater. That didn’t happen until Oct 2023…the reality is when the SOA tour got cancelled because of Covid in 2020, by the time there was any talk of writing new stuff and a possible 3rd album, I already had commitments with Transatlantic, NMB and The Winery Dogs (w Billy as well).
I can understand Ron, Derek & Jeff’s frustration with this, but the reality is the ONLY way I was ever able to juggle and balance all my bands all these years was to block certain windows in my schedule for each band or project to have time for an album/tour cycle.
Sadly, SOA’s album/tour cycle window got killed by Covid and by the time the world reopened again, I already was booked with my other bands and projects.
Anyways, I’m happy for those guys that they were able to continue working together in other musical capacity’s…but make no mistake, at the time, it had nothing to with me rejoining DT!

Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on February 26, 2024, 02:20:51 PM
Yeah, I don't think DT ever had anything to do with it. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Stadler on February 26, 2024, 02:25:49 PM
That's kind of weird, though, because Ron's statements didn't seem to have anything to do with Dream Theater.  If anything, he was rather benign about the the details, until the last part where he talked about narcissists and drug addicts, haha. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Ben_Jamin on February 26, 2024, 02:31:18 PM
I don't think DT had anything to do with it either.

What I am getting is MP bit more than he could chew. I don't blame the other guys, but it would be frustrating when you are not committed to any other projects and enjoy what you got going on and you want to keep the juices and wheel turning.

Could be that Sherinian and Bumblefoot enjoyed it a lot,  and in the end disbanded said "project" to continue on playing together with other musicians that do not have as tight of a schedule. That may be a reason why we got the musicians we did with WGD.

And honestly (this isn't a jab at MP, BS, and JSS either) I am enjoying WGD more than SoA.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: gzarruk on February 26, 2024, 03:06:14 PM
What I am getting is MP bit more than he could chew. I don't blame the other guys, but it would be frustrating when you are not committed to any other projects and enjoy what you got going on and you want to keep the juices and wheel turning.

This is exactly what it sounds like to me. I think it's another recent interview with Ron I was just watching where he was asked about the difference between a "band" and just a "project". He basically said that a band supposedly means committing for the long term, like a marriage. He said you don't get married with the intention of getting divorced, you need to give it your best from the start.

I don't think Mike should've jumped at this either. No one is (actively) blaming him, but like what I just quoted from Ron, being in a "band" means commitment and availability. Mike has always liked to brag about how he's able to juggle half a dozen different bands at the same time, but the reality is you can't always make it work well for everybody else. At some point, somebody is going to get screwed because you couldn't commit to the long run, and that's what happened to DT in 2010, AMOB and SOA, all because of Mike's wonderful band juggling abilities.

And speaking of WGD, it's shameless plug time, my review of their album just dropped :biggrin:
https://lotsofmuzik.com/whom-gods-destroy-insanium-album-review-by-gabriel-zarruck/
This is what I wanted SOA to sound like.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: HOF on February 26, 2024, 03:27:03 PM
Where is the bumblefoot quote MP responded to?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Setlist Scotty on February 26, 2024, 03:31:09 PM
Where is the bumblefoot quote MP responded to?
Here's the article, although I didn't see the link to MP's response:
https://www.loudersound.com/news/not-everybody-was-on-board-ron-bumblefoot-thal-lifts-the-lid-on-sons-of-apollo-demise
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: DTwwbwMP on February 26, 2024, 03:32:35 PM
What I am getting is MP bit more than he could chew. I don't blame the other guys, but it would be frustrating when you are not committed to any other projects and enjoy what you got going on and you want to keep the juices and wheel turning.

Could be that Sherinian and Bumblefoot enjoyed it a lot,  and in the end disbanded said "project" to continue on playing together with other musicians that do not have as tight of a schedule. That may be a reason why we got the musicians we did with WGD.

COMPLETELY AGREE

And honestly (this isn't a jab at MP, BS, and JSS either) I am enjoying WGD more than SoA.

COMPLETELY DISAGREE ;)
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: DTwwbwMP on February 26, 2024, 03:40:26 PM
Here's the article, although I didn't see the link to MP's response:
https://www.loudersound.com/news/not-everybody-was-on-board-ron-bumblefoot-thal-lifts-the-lid-on-sons-of-apollo-demise

Damn, that seems a bit bitter and harsh. OUCH!
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: DTwwbwMP on February 26, 2024, 03:47:22 PM

And speaking of WGD, it's shameless plug time, my review of their album just dropped :biggrin:
https://lotsofmuzik.com/whom-gods-destroy-insanium-album-review-by-gabriel-zarruck/


Nice job :tup Looking forward to the album even though I wasn't crazy about the first two songs released.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: MinistroRaven on February 26, 2024, 04:58:06 PM
Where is the bumblefoot quote MP responded to?
Here's the article, although I didn't see the link to MP's response:
https://www.loudersound.com/news/not-everybody-was-on-board-ron-bumblefoot-thal-lifts-the-lid-on-sons-of-apollo-demise

At the end there’s a screenshot of MP replied https://blabbermouth.net/news/mike-portnoy-denies-his-return-to-dream-theater-had-anything-to-do-with-sons-of-apollos-demise

 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: HOF on February 26, 2024, 10:37:47 PM
It’s weird how much (imaginary internet) controversy the dissolution of such an uninspiring and fairly unsuccessful band has generated.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Fritzinger on February 27, 2024, 01:45:25 AM
It’s weird how much (imaginary internet) controversy the dissolution of such an uninspiring and fairly unsuccessful band has generated.

Actually, internet controversy has always been the one thing that made this band stand out from all the other prog metal bands.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on February 27, 2024, 07:58:04 AM
It’s weird how much (imaginary internet) controversy the dissolution of such an uninspiring and fairly unsuccessful band has generated.

Actually, internet controversy has always been the one thing that made this band stand out from all the other prog metal bands.

That's actually a good point.  But they did have some fans and did tour the world a couple times.  I think most of the news is more so due to the people involved than the band as a whole though.  People like MP or Bumblefoot seem to always been in blabbermouth news.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: gzarruk on February 27, 2024, 08:06:22 AM
I actually developed a liking for SOA after a few years... and then they disbanded :lol But, to me, WGD is what SOA should've been but wasn't.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Mebert78 on February 27, 2024, 08:46:11 AM
Funny that Sons of Apollo wanted to keep working but MP wanted to focus on other projects, kinda like when Dream Theater wanted to keep working but MP wanted to focus on other projects 13 years ago.  Sons of Apollo got a dose of what DT experienced.   
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: ZirconBlue on February 27, 2024, 08:55:30 AM
Funny that Sons of Apollo wanted to keep working but MP wanted to focus on other projects, kinda like when Dream Theater wanted to keep working but MP wanted to focus on other projects 13 years ago.  Sons of Apollo got a dose of what DT experienced.   


He doesn't say he wanted to focus on other projects, just that his time was already booked elsewhere. 
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Grappler on February 27, 2024, 09:07:40 AM
Funny that Sons of Apollo wanted to keep working but MP wanted to focus on other projects, kinda like when Dream Theater wanted to keep working but MP wanted to focus on other projects 13 years ago.  Sons of Apollo got a dose of what DT experienced.   


He doesn't say he wanted to focus on other projects, just that his time was already booked elsewhere.

I agree with this - nobody is giving JSS shit for blocking out 3-4 months of his year to sing with Trans-Siberian Orchestra, but all of a sudden people want to hold Portnoy's feet to the fire for blocking out his schedule in advance?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: HOF on February 27, 2024, 09:16:04 AM
Yeah, it's kind of wild to me that there's any consternation here. Bands break up or go on hiatus or replace members all the time because one member wants to do other things or has other commitments or whatever. It's not usually something that gets written about breathlessly. Not sure why SOA couldn't have just gotten another drummer if everyone else wanted to continue.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Orbert on February 27, 2024, 09:21:32 AM
[redacted]
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: cramx3 on February 27, 2024, 09:40:00 AM
Yeah, it's kind of wild to me that there's any consternation here. Bands break up or go on hiatus or replace members all the time because one member wants to do other things or has other commitments or whatever. It's not usually something that gets written about breathlessly. Not sure why SOA couldn't have just gotten another drummer if everyone else wanted to continue.

Maybe it was the drummer and bassist doing TWD that made the timing difficult.  But yeah, wasn't Ritchie holidng back TWD for the longest time (as an example)?  So when you have a group of people all with other bands/projects outside of SOA, if they aren't all 100% committed to prioritizing SOA, which it appears that at least 3 of them werent to my guess (JSS, BS, MP) then you get a situation where the schedules are difficult to align.

I don't doubt the intentions were for this to be a band, not a project, but I think the band maybe not meeting expectations and the members having opportunities elsewhere have lead to this. And now you have Derek's new band with Bumblefoot that spawned out of this.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Madman Shepherd on February 27, 2024, 10:32:44 AM
Funny that Sons of Apollo wanted to keep working but MP wanted to focus on other projects, kinda like when Dream Theater wanted to keep working but MP wanted to focus on other projects 13 years ago.  Sons of Apollo got a dose of what DT experienced.   


He doesn't say he wanted to focus on other projects, just that his time was already booked elsewhere.

Bumblefoot mentioned they wanted to continue working while in quarantine, and while Mike did have other stuff booked during covid, I think it's implied he wasn't interested rather than he was too busy. After all, mike posted a lot about how he's never been at home that long etc. I'm sure he could have worked in some virtual writing sessions in or let them work when he wasnt available. Or maybe he put the kibash on them working at all without him seeing as how he named himself "band leader."

Quote from: Grappler/


I agree with this - nobody is giving JSS shit for blocking out 3-4 months of his year to sing with Trans-Siberian Orchestra, but all of a sudden people want to hold Portnoy's feet to the fire for blocking out his schedule in advance?

Big difference between "I can't work from late August through early january" and "I can't work for 4 weeks January to February and 6 weeks  from March to mid April, then the middle two weeks of June, all of July" etc etc
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: gzarruk on February 27, 2024, 10:47:30 AM
I think Mike's distinction between a "band" and a "project" makes sense, now that it's explained.  But I think it can cause issues because not everyone thinks the same way, and (just guessing here) the other members of Sons of Apollo thought they were in a band, a band with specific members, not "just a project".  To them, they'd assumed a certain level of commitment, the kind you give to a band.  To Mike, it was just a side project, something fun to do, get together and make music with some guys he doesn't always work with, and if the timing doesn't work out, that's a bummer but life goes on.  I can see both sides.

Not sure if you're refering to my post, but if so, it was Ron, not Mike who explained that. Here's the interview I was quoting, which is different from the one that spawned this article and MP's response. https://biffbampop.com/2024/02/25/exclusive-interview-ron-bumblefoot-thal-on-whom-gods-destroy-and-their-debut-album-insanium/
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Orbert on February 27, 2024, 12:17:31 PM
Oops.  For some reason I was thinking it was Mike who said that.

Forget I said anything. :(
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: abydos on February 28, 2024, 04:37:07 AM
Sounds like no one was talking to each other and MP just started planning his other projects without telling them about it beforehand. Which is still kind of a dick move, imo, especially if you consider the band your "main" band at the time. But it's not all on him, if they wanted to they can pick another drummer and continue instead of falling apart.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Madman Shepherd on February 28, 2024, 06:16:16 PM
Sounds like no one was talking to each other and MP just started planning his other projects without telling them about it beforehand. Which is still kind of a dick move, imo, especially if you consider the band your "main" band at the time. But it's not all on him, if they wanted to they can pick another drummer and continue instead of falling apart.

Could they though? I wonder if MP would have prevented it. He formed the band so I wonder if he had ownership.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: abydos on February 29, 2024, 01:25:47 AM
I don't see a reason he'd cockblock them unless there was some bad blood between them. And I remember watching a Porntoy interview a while back where he said that he didn't want to be the main guy for SoA and deal with everything like he did before, that if this was to work as a band and his other projects, he'd have to have less responsibilities outside of the music.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: efx on February 29, 2024, 01:47:53 AM
I wonder if the social media posts from Derek regarding Scenes From A Memory played a part as well. I would assume it wasn't the whole reason for sure but it was strange putting that out there when he was with MP in what they both called a band at the time.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: abydos on February 29, 2024, 02:24:16 AM
I wonder if the social media posts from Derek regarding Scenes From A Memory played a part as well. I would assume it wasn't the whole reason for sure but it was strange putting that out there when he was with MP in what they both called a band at the time.
What posts? I don't do much social media outside of the gaming space really. Can you share the context?
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Schurftkut on February 29, 2024, 02:36:11 AM
he didn't get any credits for parts of Scenes he'd written that they used on the album.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: efx on February 29, 2024, 03:10:21 AM
Derek started talking about royalties (I think, feel free to correct me if wrong) and what I remember is him specifically using the phrase "screw job" to describe it. Not totally out of character for him in general but considering this was while SOA was active I thought it was weird.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: abydos on February 29, 2024, 04:53:39 AM
Yeah, I have no idea how these work, but if he wrote it and they used it, he probably should have gotten some. Unless it was one of those deals - you work for a company, anything you make is theirs.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: Setlist Scotty on February 29, 2024, 06:40:26 AM
I remember watching a Porntoy interview a while back where he said that he didn't want to be the main guy for SoA and deal with everything like he did before, that if this was to work as a band and his other projects, he'd have to have less responsibilities outside of the music.
Freudian slip or intentional?  :lol

Anyway, I would be curious to see the interview where he said that specifically about SoA, because from what I recall, it was quite the opposite. While he was either a team player or just a drummer with everything else he did post-DT, at least in early interviews about SoA, he had commented about how much he had missed being in the driver's seat like he had with DT. So when he and Derek put SoA together, at least to some extent it was modeled after the roles MP and JP had in DT with MP heading more of the creative aspects with Derek heading up the business aspects.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: efx on February 29, 2024, 06:48:43 AM
I remember watching a Porntoy interview a while back where he said that he didn't want to be the main guy for SoA and deal with everything like he did before, that if this was to work as a band and his other projects, he'd have to have less responsibilities outside of the music.
Freudian slip or intentional?  :lol

Anyway, I would be curious to see the interview where he said that specifically about SoA, because from what I recall, it was quite the opposite. While he was either a team player or just a drummer with everything else he did post-DT, at least in early interviews about SoA, he had commented about how much he had missed being in the driver's seat like he had with DT. So when he and Derek put SoA together, at least to some extent it was modeled after the roles MP and JP had in DT with MP heading more of the creative aspects with Derek heading up the business aspects.

You could even see that reflected in the first albums cover. It's very apparent whose band this really was.
Title: Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
Post by: abydos on February 29, 2024, 07:24:33 AM
I remember watching a Porntoy interview a while back where he said that he didn't want to be the main guy for SoA and deal with everything like he did before, that if this was to work as a band and his other projects, he'd have to have less responsibilities outside of the music.
Freudian slip or intentional?  :lol

Anyway, I would be curious to see the interview where he said that specifically about SoA, because from what I recall, it was quite the opposite. While he was either a team player or just a drummer with everything else he did post-DT, at least in early interviews about SoA, he had commented about how much he had missed being in the driver's seat like he had with DT. So when he and Derek put SoA together, at least to some extent it was modeled after the roles MP and JP had in DT with MP heading more of the creative aspects with Derek heading up the business aspects.
I may be misremembering it and twisting it around, I tried looking for it but couldn't find it now.