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General => Polls/Survivors => Topic started by: The Letter M on May 08, 2017, 01:23:49 AM

Title: Dream Theater Survivor 2017 - The Finals - THE FINAL ROUND!!!
Post by: The Letter M on May 08, 2017, 01:23:49 AM
The Finals
Octavarium
A Change Of Seasons

Round 32's Tie-Breaker's Results:
Metropolis Part 1: The Miracle And The Sleeper 23 (54.8%)
Octavarium 19 (45.2%)

03. Metropolis Part 1: The Miracle And The Sleeper
04. Learning To Live
05. Home
06. Breaking All Illusions
07. Take The Time
08. Trial Of Tears
09. The Glass Prison
10. Finally Free
11. Scarred
12. In The Name Of God
13. Bridges In The Sky
14. The Mirror
15. The Root Of All Evil
16. Fatal Tragedy
17. In The Presence Of Enemies
18. The Count Of Tuscany
19. Stream Of Consciousness
20. Disappear
21. The Ministry Of Lost Souls
22. Lines In The Sand
23. Illumination Theory
24. Moment Of Betrayal
25. Three Days
26. Surrender To Reason
27. A Nightmare To Remember
28. A Tempting Offer
29. A Life Left Behind
30. The Killing Hand
31. A Fortune In Lies
32. To Live Forever
33. A Vision
34. March Of The Tyrant

By four votes, "Metropolis", one of the band's classic and fan-favorite concert-pieces, as well as epics, is finally out, placing third and getting the bronze. It hung in there for as long as it could, but it makes way for two of Dream Theater's most loved side-length epics - the 23-minute "A Change Of Seasons" and the 24-minute "Octavarium". Only ONE of these epics will get first place, while the other shall settle for second - which is YOUR least favorite of these two?

This round will be open for TWO days, just to ensure that everyone here gets a chance to vote, so I hope to see at LEAST 42 votes in this final Finals round! Thanks again to EVERYONE who has participated in this. It's been a LOT of fun to do this year, and I've really enjoyed seeing the results unfold! The past month of Finals rounds has been pretty interesting, though now that we're here at the end of all things, it'll be fun to see which of these behemoth classic epics will beat the other one!

What's next for me? I will bring back my Genesis Survivor, which I've only done once and not since 2012! The board has definitely had members come and go in the last five years, so I think it's been plenty of time since then to do this one again, and hopefully I will have more players this go around (at least for MOST of the albums). If there are any Genesis fans here in the DT Survivor thread, I hope you continue to follow me as we decide which Genesis song will survive the longest!

-Marc.
Title: Re: Dream Theater Survivor 2017 - The Finals - THE FINAL ROUND!!!
Post by: Prog Snob on May 08, 2017, 01:28:00 AM
When you're about to put on A Change of Seasons, you do.

(https://cdn.meme.am/instances/57122199.jpg)
Title: Re: Dream Theater Survivor 2017 - The Finals - THE FINAL ROUND!!!
Post by: TheCountOfNYC on May 08, 2017, 01:32:08 AM
A Change of Seasons. Octavarium is IMO the greatest song ever written.
Title: Re: Dream Theater Survivor 2017 - The Finals - THE FINAL ROUND!!!
Post by: MirrorMask on May 08, 2017, 01:36:06 AM
I'll vote against Octavarium. May A Change of Seasons win  :metal
Title: Re: Dream Theater Survivor 2017 - The Finals - THE FINAL ROUND!!!
Post by: Mladen on May 08, 2017, 02:21:11 AM
Whoa! I know I said I'm fine either way, but I really did not think Octavarium would survive the tiebreaker round.  :lol

Still, ACOS gets my vote. Both songs are perfect, though. It really doesn't matter at this point.  ;D
Title: Re: Dream Theater Survivor 2017 - The Finals - THE FINAL ROUND!!!
Post by: home on May 08, 2017, 02:25:02 AM
A change of seasons
Title: Re: Dream Theater Survivor 2017 - The Finals - THE FINAL ROUND!!!
Post by: Eldomm on May 08, 2017, 02:29:11 AM
Octavarium by a loooooooong shot
Title: Re: Dream Theater Survivor 2017 - The Finals - THE FINAL ROUND!!!
Post by: jjrock88 on May 08, 2017, 04:12:59 AM
Octavarium
Title: Re: Dream Theater Survivor 2017 - The Finals - THE FINAL ROUND!!!
Post by: Tomislav95 on May 08, 2017, 04:57:32 AM
Octavarium. Both would make my top 10, maybe even top 5.
Title: Re: Dream Theater Survivor 2017 - The Finals - THE FINAL ROUND!!!
Post by: krands85 on May 08, 2017, 05:17:38 AM
A Change Of Seasons

Thanks for running things Marc
Title: Re: Dream Theater Survivor 2017 - The Finals - THE FINAL ROUND!!!
Post by: jakepriest on May 08, 2017, 05:45:44 AM
ACOS
Title: Re: Dream Theater Survivor 2017 - The Finals - THE FINAL ROUND!!!
Post by: CharlesPL on May 08, 2017, 06:15:28 AM

Octavarium
Title: Re: Dream Theater Survivor 2017 - The Finals - THE FINAL ROUND!!!
Post by: Elite on May 08, 2017, 06:29:17 AM
Whoa! I know I said I'm fine either way, but I really did not think Octavarium would survive the tiebreaker round.  :lol

Where did all the extra votes come from though?
Title: Re: Dream Theater Survivor 2017 - The Finals - THE FINAL ROUND!!!
Post by: Destiny Of Chaos on May 08, 2017, 06:48:56 AM
ACOS.

Thanks for running this. I'd be curious to learn if folks prefer the survivor or the league.
Title: Re: Dream Theater Survivor 2017 - The Finals - THE FINAL ROUND!!!
Post by: romdrums on May 08, 2017, 06:58:42 AM
There's no way it should be this close.  A Change of Seasons runs circles around Octavarium.
Title: Re: Dream Theater Survivor 2017 - The Finals - THE FINAL ROUND!!!
Post by: MirrorMask on May 08, 2017, 07:01:34 AM
Thanks for running this. I'd be curious to learn if folks prefer the survivor or the league.

Generally, I prefer survivors. But on the specific case of DT and this being, well, a DT forum, I think that the band that we're all here for is worth of a more complex structure like the league. Still it was fun to go through this!
Title: Re: Dream Theater Survivor 2017 - The Finals - THE FINAL ROUND!!!
Post by: krands85 on May 08, 2017, 07:11:09 AM
Thanks for running this. I'd be curious to learn if folks prefer the survivor or the league.
I think I prefer the league - certainly when it comes to DT. It can get quite annoying voting for the same song every round if you happen to dislike one that not many other people do!
Title: Re: Dream Theater Survivor 2017 - The Finals - THE FINAL ROUND!!!
Post by: Scorpion on May 08, 2017, 07:55:22 AM
There's no way it should be this close.  A Change of Seasons runs circles around Octavarium.

I agree.
Title: Re: Dream Theater Survivor 2017 - The Finals - THE FINAL ROUND!!!
Post by: mikeyd23 on May 08, 2017, 08:08:35 AM
ACOS
Title: Re: Dream Theater Survivor 2017 - The Finals - THE FINAL ROUND!!!
Post by: jakepriest on May 08, 2017, 08:41:43 AM
Thanks for running this. I'd be curious to learn if folks prefer the survivor or the league.
I think I prefer the league - certainly when it comes to DT. It can get quite annoying voting for the same song every round if you happen to dislike one that not many other people do!

I'm the other way around. I dislike having to vote for 20 songs every single round, but that's just a personal thing.
It's a nice format that leads to very interesting results and statistics though, so I understand why people prefer it and I certainly appreciate the work DoC has put into it over the past few years.  :tup

Whoa! I know I said I'm fine either way, but I really did not think Octavarium would survive the tiebreaker round.  :lol

Where did all the extra votes come from though?

Even though I wanted Octavarium to win, that round was a bit shady indeed. Out of nowhere we got like 8 votes that completely swung it in the other direction and not a single one of them made a post.
Title: Re: Dream Theater Survivor 2017 - The Finals - THE FINAL ROUND!!!
Post by: Elite on May 08, 2017, 08:58:18 AM
Exactly. ACOS was winning all the way through and the extra votes got there all in the same hour or so.

Where have I seen that before? hmmmm.
Title: Re: Dream Theater Survivor 2017 - The Finals - THE FINAL ROUND!!!
Post by: Train of Naught on May 08, 2017, 09:05:41 AM
Where have I seen that before? hmmmm.
Scar was active last night, IIRC he hasn't logged in to DTF for quite a while so you're probably right.. *sigh*

To add to that, one of his other accounts was last active at the exact same hour and almost same minute, and another one of his accounts was last active today. Neither of them have posted in a while. I really wish someone could just IP ban him, there's plenty of proof at this point

Anyway, voting Octavarium of course, like I have been for the past few rounds. Thanks for running this M! :tup
Title: Re: Dream Theater Survivor 2017 - The Finals - THE FINAL ROUND!!!
Post by: Crow on May 08, 2017, 09:24:36 AM
occy vermin
Title: Re: Dream Theater Survivor 2017 - The Finals - THE FINAL ROUND!!!
Post by: Elite on May 08, 2017, 09:35:48 AM
Where have I seen that before? hmmmm.
Scar was active last night, IIRC he hasn't logged in to DTF for quite a while so you're probably right.. *sigh*

To add to that, one of his other accounts was last active at the exact same hour and almost same minute, and another one of his accounts was last active today.

Of course, I already checked that sort of stuff before posting in this thread. (x5 of his accounts)
Title: Re: Dream Theater Survivor 2017 - The Finals - THE FINAL ROUND!!!
Post by: Elite on May 08, 2017, 09:56:44 AM
I really wish someone could just IP ban him, there's plenty of proof at this point

Yup...

That last round was rigged and this one will likely get fucked up as well.
Title: Re: Dream Theater Survivor 2017 - The Finals - THE FINAL ROUND!!!
Post by: BlackInk on May 08, 2017, 10:45:10 AM
Octavarium.

1. A Change of Seasons
2. Octavarium
3. In the Presence of Enemies
4. The Glass Prison
5. In the Name of God
6. Finally Free
7. Home
8. Trial of Tears
9. Learning to Live
10. Breaking All Illusions
11. The Ministry of Lost Souls
12. Scarred
13. Metropolis - Part 1: The Miracle and the Sleeper
14. The Root of All Evil
15. Disappear
16. Stream of Consciousness
17. Take the Time
18. Bridges in the Sky
19. The Mirror
20. A Tempting Offer
21. Fatal Tragedy
22. Lines in the Sand
23. Moment of Betrayal
24. A Life Left Behind
25. To Live Forever
26. The Count of Tuscany
27. Illumination Theory
28. A Nightmare to Remember
29. Three Days
30. Surrender to Reason
31. The Killing Hand
32. A Fortune in Lies
33. A Vision
34. March of the Tyrant

I'd be curious to learn if folks prefer the survivor or the league.

Personally, I prefer the league.
Title: Re: Dream Theater Survivor 2017 - The Finals - THE FINAL ROUND!!!
Post by: home on May 08, 2017, 11:09:31 AM
I really like the survivor but I think the results of The League say a bit more. Also now we have some people voting stragegically and some people voting for the same song the whole survivor   :P

That last round was rigged and this one will likely get fucked up as well.
That would really suck  :censored

I dislike having to vote for 20 songs every single round, but that's just a personal thing.
Same
Title: Re: Dream Theater Survivor 2017 - The Finals - THE FINAL ROUND!!!
Post by: Crow on May 08, 2017, 11:10:34 AM
awkward venom
Title: Re: Dream Theater Survivor 2017 - The Finals - THE FINAL ROUND!!!
Post by: ? on May 08, 2017, 11:41:18 AM
There's no way it should be this close.  A Change of Seasons runs circles around Octavarium.

I agree.
Title: Re: Dream Theater Survivor 2017 - The Finals - THE FINAL ROUND!!!
Post by: Crow on May 08, 2017, 11:44:03 AM
I consider the results of this entire survivor basically invalid considering scar is rigging the results and despite this bring known for months nothing has been done to stop it but I also don't give that much of a damn about it anyways but seriously you should be banning all of scar's accounts and IP banning them to boot, admins
Title: Re: Dream Theater Survivor 2017 - The Finals - THE FINAL ROUND!!!
Post by: Tomislav95 on May 08, 2017, 11:47:04 AM
I dislike having to vote for 20 songs every single round, but that's just a personal thing.
Same
Well, both of you should get better taste then :loser:

Scar was active last night, IIRC he hasn't logged in to DTF for quite a while so you're probably right.. *sigh*

To add to that, one of his other accounts was last active at the exact same hour and almost same minute, and another one of his accounts was last active today. Neither of them have posted in a while. I really wish someone could just IP ban him, there's plenty of proof at this point

Anyway, voting Octavarium of course, like I have been for the past few rounds. Thanks for running this M! :tup
Inspector ToN to the rescue :police:
Title: Re: Dream Theater Survivor 2017 - The Finals - THE FINAL ROUND!!!
Post by: Elite on May 08, 2017, 11:53:37 AM
I consider the results of this entire survivor basically invalid considering scar is rigging the results and despite this bring known for months nothing has been done to stop it but I also don't give that much of a damn about it anyways but seriously you should be banning all of scar's accounts and IP banning them to boot, admins

Actually, as far as I know only the last round (and this one) is getting screwed.
That's only this Survivor though.
Title: Re: Dream Theater Survivor 2017 - The Finals - THE FINAL ROUND!!!
Post by: Adami on May 08, 2017, 11:57:07 AM
8VM
Title: Re: Dream Theater Survivor 2017 - The Finals - THE FINAL ROUND!!!
Post by: home on May 08, 2017, 12:30:54 PM
I dislike having to vote for 20 songs every single round, but that's just a personal thing.
Same
Well, both of you should get better taste then :loser:

It's more laziness than taste tbh  :lol
Title: Re: Dream Theater Survivor 2017 - The Finals - THE FINAL ROUND!!!
Post by: ToT-147 on May 08, 2017, 12:34:56 PM
There's plenty of songs better than 8V... but a mediocre DT song can't win this.. It's good... and it's epic... and The Crimson Sunrise, The Crimson Sunset and Another World are flawless compositions... but the rest is no way higher than "good"..

So Octave for the win..

Thanks for running this. I'd be curious to learn if folks prefer the survivor or the league.

To be fair, with both formats we had the same three or four songs in the first places, so it wouldn't make much difference about that.. But I also prefer the league, because it gives a more representative picture of the whole DTF ranking of the rest of songs..

Anyways, whatever the format, they'd be even more interesting and fun by having more participation, i.e. more voters, more opinions..
Title: Re: Dream Theater Survivor 2017 - The Finals - THE FINAL ROUND!!!
Post by: BlackInk on May 08, 2017, 01:02:18 PM
What's happened with Scar? Is he pissed at the forum or something?
Title: Re: Dream Theater Survivor 2017 - The Finals - THE FINAL ROUND!!!
Post by: Crow on May 08, 2017, 01:03:26 PM
He was rigging lots of survivors & got caught and basically disappeared after but now it seems like he's back just to be a dick again
Title: Re: Dream Theater Survivor 2017 - The Finals - THE FINAL ROUND!!!
Post by: jakepriest on May 08, 2017, 01:07:17 PM
I dislike having to vote for 20 songs every single round, but that's just a personal thing.
Same
Well, both of you should get better taste then :loser:

It's more laziness than taste tbh  :lol

this  :hat
Title: Re: Dream Theater Survivor 2017 - The Finals - THE FINAL ROUND!!!
Post by: Evermind on May 08, 2017, 01:46:53 PM
I actually noticed that A Little Piece of Heaven (which I believe to be Scar's account) was online at Friday and made a screenshot (https://i.imgur.com/JKn5xlV.jpg) just in case. When I was leaving home for the weekend later, I thought "I wonder which poll will be rigged now, hopefully it's not my survivor" and look what happens, shady results in the penultimate round of DT Survivor. I would say that last round was definitely rigged.

I'm also sure that after this post it will be indeed Ayreon survivor that'll get rigged. :biggrin:

But hey, I vote A Change of Seasons.

Oh and of course, thank you Marc for running this!
Title: Re: Dream Theater Survivor 2017 - The Finals - THE FINAL ROUND!!!
Post by: hefdaddy42 on May 08, 2017, 03:25:24 PM
So, everyone complaining about Scar and multiple accounts - did anyone report that? Because if all you did was talk amongst yourselves about it, the mods didn't know.

Oh, and Octavarium can GTFO
Title: Re: Dream Theater Survivor 2017 - The Finals - THE FINAL ROUND!!!
Post by: Elite on May 08, 2017, 03:26:47 PM
So, everyone complaining about Scar and multiple accounts - did anyone report that? Because if all you did was talk amongst yourselves about it, the mods didn't know. 
Is there an e-mail address to which I can send a full report? I'm sure a bunch of other forummers have some stuff to say as well.
Title: Re: Dream Theater Survivor 2017 - The Finals - THE FINAL ROUND!!!
Post by: Evermind on May 08, 2017, 03:46:07 PM
So, everyone complaining about Scar and multiple accounts - did anyone report that? Because if all you did was talk amongst yourselves about it, the mods didn't know.

I did report the Blind Faythe account (which I strongly suspected to be Scar's) a while back (I would say around November/December 2016, but I could be wrong since there is no reports history to check as far as I'm aware) for the multi-account thing. As there was no response and—as far as I could see—no action taken towards him, I stopped reporting anything else up from that point, including the Serah Farron account and the incident with probably rigged polls in Pain of Salvation Survivor during the Scarsick album.
Title: Re: Dream Theater Survivor 2017 - The Finals - THE FINAL ROUND!!!
Post by: Dave_Manchester on May 08, 2017, 03:51:00 PM
I consider the results of this entire survivor basically invalid considering scar is rigging the results and despite this bring known for months nothing has been done to stop it but I also don't give that much of a damn about it anyways but seriously you should be banning all of scar's accounts and IP banning them to boot, admins

He rigged the results of his own Opeth album cover survivor, and when called on it, merely apologised and promised not to do it again. No explanation of why he'd cheated on his own Survivor in the first damn place.

And then yeah, as others have noted, Metropolis was way in the lead last night, until he went online, and before you know it, a shit load of votes have put Octavarium in the lead. Whatever, I guess in the grand scheme of the things it doesn't matter, but who spends their time doing shit like that?

Regardless, thank you, 'Letter M', for doing these Survivors, and I look forward to your Genesis one.
Title: Re: Dream Theater Survivor 2017 - The Finals - THE FINAL ROUND!!!
Post by: Dave_Manchester on May 08, 2017, 03:59:52 PM
Oh, and I voted for A Change of Seasons here. My top 10:

1. The Count of Tuscany
2. Octavarium
3. A Change of Seasons
4. In The Presence of Enemies
5. In The Name of God
6. Stream of Consciousness
7. Home
8. Metropolis
9. Trial of Tears
10. Misunderstood
Title: Re: Dream Theater Survivor 2017 - The Finals - THE FINAL ROUND!!!
Post by: jakepriest on May 08, 2017, 04:18:10 PM
Oh, and I voted for A Change of Seasons here. My top 10:

1. The Count of Tuscany
2. Octavarium
3. A Change of Seasons
4. In The Presence of Enemies
5. In The Name of God
6. Stream of Consciousness
7. Home
8. Metropolis
9. Trial of Tears
10. Misunderstood

Nice to see someone else who regards TCOT this high.
Title: Re: Dream Theater Survivor 2017 - The Finals - THE FINAL ROUND!!!
Post by: Crow on May 08, 2017, 04:26:07 PM
Yeah, you wrongy wrongers
Title: Re: Dream Theater Survivor 2017 - The Finals - THE FINAL ROUND!!!
Post by: ToT-147 on May 08, 2017, 07:47:06 PM
"Count" me among those.. :metal

The song is easily better than these two, mostly because it doesn't have any middle range part like 8V has Medicate... and the ending of Someone Like Him and the vocal part of Razor's Edge.. Tuscany is perfection made song..
Title: Re: Dream Theater Survivor 2017 - The Finals - THE FINAL ROUND!!!
Post by: RoeDent on May 09, 2017, 12:11:19 AM
1. I don't know what to vote for here; I love both songs equally.

2. Idk if I should talk about this, but others are, so I'm glad Scar's being called out here now. I always had my suspicions about him/her/it. Even simple things like not showing the ranking tables in results posts. That's kind of an important thing in Survivor. It's just how things are done. And rigging your own survivor, then merely apologising for it and saying you'll never do it again is just stupid.

3. Thank you Marc for running this survivor. We've breezed through this! Also, I only have four Genesis albums, so my participation may be somewhat limited in the Genesis survivor. Unless I buy any more between now and then.
Title: Re: Dream Theater Survivor 2017 - The Finals - THE FINAL ROUND!!!
Post by: MirrorMask on May 09, 2017, 01:06:28 AM
Guess I got the answer that was lingering in the back of my mind, "When will the Symphony X survivor return?"  :P
Title: Re: Dream Theater Survivor 2017 - The Finals - THE FINAL ROUND!!!
Post by: Mladen on May 09, 2017, 01:10:06 AM
Shame if some of the stuff here was rigged, hopefully someone will look into that.

Anyway, it was great fun as it always is -thank you very much, M!  :metal
Title: Re: Dream Theater Survivor 2017 - The Finals - THE FINAL ROUND!!!
Post by: jjrock88 on May 09, 2017, 01:43:24 AM
btw thanks for running this, great job!
Title: Re: Dream Theater Survivor 2017 - The Finals - THE FINAL ROUND!!!
Post by: Destiny Of Chaos on May 09, 2017, 04:49:16 AM
I wouldn't consider bringing back the league knowing that one user is voting multiple times under various usernames. Too much work to have one person ruin it for all.
Title: Re: Dream Theater Survivor 2017 - The Finals - THE FINAL ROUND!!!
Post by: MirrorMask on May 09, 2017, 05:21:51 AM
I wouldn't consider bringing back the league knowing that one user is voting multiple times under various usernames. Too much work to have one person ruin it for all.

Well, one of the mods said it above - report it, bring proof, and if an IP ban is deserved and justified, that will be it.
Title: Re: Dream Theater Survivor 2017 - The Finals - THE FINAL ROUND!!!
Post by: Elite on May 09, 2017, 06:10:58 AM
Which is what I'm doing, but feel free to back me up with any and every proof you have as well.
Title: Re: Dream Theater Survivor 2017 - The Finals - THE FINAL ROUND!!!
Post by: jingle.boy on May 09, 2017, 06:32:22 AM
FWIW, I too voted against ACOS yesterday.  My voted made it a 22/22 tie at the time.
Title: Re: Dream Theater Survivor 2017 - The Finals - THE FINAL ROUND!!!
Post by: cramx3 on May 09, 2017, 10:15:10 AM
I had thought the results of this survivor had been a bit odd. But never thought someone was that bored and big of an ass to intentionally throw this, like it's some sort of achievement or makes a difference besides bumming a few people out (no one bigger than The Letter M running this). What a shame.

I voted Octavarium
Title: Re: Dream Theater Survivor 2017 - The Finals - THE FINAL ROUND!!!
Post by: hefdaddy42 on May 09, 2017, 12:27:12 PM
Which is what I'm doing, but feel free to back me up with any and every proof you have as well.
Yep, anyone that has anything, send it to Nick.
Title: Re: Dream Theater Survivor 2017 - The Finals - THE FINAL ROUND!!!
Post by: RoeDent on May 09, 2017, 12:36:01 PM
I've voted for ACOS, and it's 26-24 to ACOS as I write this. #rigwatch  :biggrin:
Title: Re: Dream Theater Survivor 2017 - The Finals - THE FINAL ROUND!!!
Post by: MirrorMask on May 09, 2017, 12:40:00 PM
Damn, I was rooting for a tie just for the lulz of it  :biggrin:
Title: Re: Dream Theater Survivor 2017 - The Finals - THE FINAL ROUND!!!
Post by: ToT-147 on May 09, 2017, 03:47:06 PM
How did we get these Scars?...


Title: Re: Dream Theater Survivor 2017 - The Finals - THE FINAL ROUND!!!
Post by: home on May 09, 2017, 05:05:10 PM
How did we get these Scars?...
Squ
scRa are the resultaten of sound nog bring propey
Title: Re: Dream Theater Survivor 2017 - The Finals - THE FINAL ROUND!!!
Post by: The Letter M on May 09, 2017, 05:19:12 PM
How did we get these Scars?...

Why so Nefaryus?

-Marc.
Title: Re: Dream Theater Survivor 2017 - The Finals - THE FINAL ROUND!!!
Post by: Elite on May 09, 2017, 05:19:49 PM
Squ
scRa are the resultaten of sound nog bring propey

Somebody should sig this. I'm tempted to do so


:lol :lol
Title: Re: Dream Theater Survivor 2017 - The Finals - THE FINAL ROUND!!!
Post by: Bolsters on May 10, 2017, 03:19:39 AM
So, everyone complaining about Scar and multiple accounts - did anyone report that? Because if all you did was talk amongst yourselves about it, the mods didn't know.
They were caught red-handed in the beginning when they only had two accounts, because they posted from the wrong account in the chat thread. They made a thread shortly thereafter and were called out on it, and you simply said that it was "being looked into" and told us not to talk about it, a sentiment that Rich and bosk echoed. I guess if you wanted further information on the ongoing actions of this person, you shouldn't have shut us down in the beginning? (https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=45849.0) So you certainly did know.

I didn't make any further complaints because why bother? Two mods told us not to talk about it, bosk wasn't convinced anything actually happened even when he/she/it was caught using two accounts - because they were smart enough to post from two different IP addresses. If the staff weren't convinced on the one occasion they were caught red handed, there wasn't going to be any way of convincing you that any of the subsequent identities were also theirs.

Even with Ruslan keeping an eye on the number of votes on the accounts' profiles isn't evidence of anything. There's no rule saying an account that hasn't posted in months/years can't vote in polls, and there's no proof that all of those accounts indeed are the same person anyway. There's a lot of people here who "know" that this is precisely what was going on, this person doesn't really change their posting style much either so most of us knew when they'd made a new account to play with after only a handful of posts had been made. But as long as they've continued to use different IP addresses, there's no hard evidence of any of it.
Title: Re: Dream Theater Survivor 2017 - The Finals - THE FINAL ROUND!!!
Post by: Elite on May 10, 2017, 03:28:37 AM
Except when 'Scar' blatantly admitted in the plug.dj chat that he was ASacrificedSon and Blind Faythe as well. There's multiple people who were there as well.

I also have more 'evidence' that can prove at least 4 of his account are, in fact, the same person. I reported it here, got told to send it Nick, which I did.

---

I don't really like how this is casting a shadow over the (fantastically run, congrats Marc!) Dream Theater Survivor, but it is as it is. I'll gladly open up my can of worm on a different part of the forum for all the users to see, if that what it takes. I do not believe this thread in particular is the right place to discuss this.
Title: Re: Dream Theater Survivor 2017 - The Finals - THE FINAL ROUND!!!
Post by: Bolsters on May 10, 2017, 03:30:47 AM
Except when 'Scar' blatantly admitted in the plug.dj chat that he was ASacrificedSon and Blind Faythe as well. There's multiple people who were there as well.
I had no idea about that. Not that it matters now, every time they get called out they just abandon the accounts they are using and make new ones.

By the way there's been at least seven accounts that I would attribute to them (so far).
Title: Re: Dream Theater Survivor 2017 - The Finals - THE FINAL ROUND!!!
Post by: Mladen on May 10, 2017, 12:20:14 PM
Rigged or not, this isn't a very controversial outcome. Nice number one.  :tup
Title: Re: Dream Theater Survivor 2017 - The Finals - THE FINAL ROUND!!!
Post by: jingle.boy on May 10, 2017, 12:35:45 PM
Rigged or not, this isn't a very controversial outcome. Nice number one.  :tup

Agreed... 8vm is consistently top 5 or top 3, and has beat ACOS for #1 in the past.
Title: Re: Dream Theater Survivor 2017 - The Finals - THE FINAL ROUND!!!
Post by: ToT-147 on May 10, 2017, 04:01:26 PM
Does anyone know what song did she/he voted for?..

Because this isn't about what any of us thinks personally (for instance, I'm also happy for 8V beating ACoS), but for what the results end up showing.. This isn't about being crontoversial or not, but about being fair or unfair.. And if one guy is voting for 3 or 4 instead of 1 as it should be, that'd be unfair.. Not mentioning the fact that this round was defined by only one vote..
Title: Re: Dream Theater Survivor 2017 - The Finals - THE FINAL ROUND!!!
Post by: Crow on May 10, 2017, 09:14:34 PM
they have like 6-7 accounts iirc
and it was the previous round tiebreaker and potentially this round too that were affected
Title: Re: Dream Theater Survivor 2017 - The Finals - THE FINAL ROUND!!!
Post by: Prog Snob on May 10, 2017, 09:37:14 PM
So, everyone complaining about Scar and multiple accounts - did anyone report that? Because if all you did was talk amongst yourselves about it, the mods didn't know.
They were caught red-handed in the beginning when they only had two accounts, because they posted from the wrong account in the chat thread. They made a thread shortly thereafter and were called out on it, and you simply said that it was "being looked into" and told us not to talk about it, a sentiment that Rich and bosk echoed. I guess if you wanted further information on the ongoing actions of this person, you shouldn't have shut us down in the beginning? (https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=45849.0) So you certainly did know.


I do remember being told to drop it because it was being investigated. It's just too easy to create multiple accounts without getting caught.
Title: Re: Dream Theater Survivor 2017 - The Finals - THE FINAL ROUND!!!
Post by: Elite on May 11, 2017, 03:01:55 AM
He voted for ACOS on the Scar account, so it's all too easy to assume the other 3 accounts he used at least in this round were votes for ACOS as well.
Title: Re: Dream Theater Survivor 2017 - The Finals - THE FINAL ROUND!!!
Post by: IDontNotDoThings on May 11, 2017, 03:27:34 AM
So, everyone complaining about Scar and multiple accounts - did anyone report that? Because if all you did was talk amongst yourselves about it, the mods didn't know.
They were caught red-handed in the beginning when they only had two accounts, because they posted from the wrong account in the chat thread. They made a thread shortly thereafter and were called out on it, and you simply said that it was "being looked into" and told us not to talk about it, a sentiment that Rich and bosk echoed. I guess if you wanted further information on the ongoing actions of this person, you shouldn't have shut us down in the beginning? (https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=45849.0) So you certainly did know.


inb4 thread locked
Title: Re: Dream Theater Survivor 2017 - The Finals - THE FINAL ROUND!!!
Post by: ToT-147 on May 11, 2017, 12:06:34 PM
He voted for ACOS on the Scar account, so it's all too easy to assume the other 3 accounts he used at least in this round were votes for ACOS as well.

Ok.. So, if he voted 8V for the win, then it's possible that he voted for Metropolis in the tiebreaker round to save it.. The difference between Met and 8V was 4 votes, and if he has 6 or 7 accounts as Parama said, then the result did get screwed..

Title: Re: Dream Theater Survivor 2017 - The Finals - THE FINAL ROUND!!!
Post by: RoeDent on May 11, 2017, 12:27:12 PM
Octavarium continues its stranglehold on the annual DTF tournament, despite the change of format. Effectively its fourth straight championship. It's pretty safe to say this is the community's number 1 DT song. (And, like democratic elections, if you didn't take part, you have no right to complain about this statement.)
Title: Re: Dream Theater Survivor 2017 - The Finals - THE FINAL ROUND!!!
Post by: Scorpion on May 11, 2017, 12:32:00 PM
Octavarium continues its stranglehold on the annual DTF tournament, despite the change of format. Effectively its fourth straight championship. It's pretty safe to say this is the community's number 1 DT song. (And, like democratic elections, if you didn't take part, you have no right to complain about this statement.)

Not sure where you're getting this from, if rigging of four or five votes is in the discussion and it won by one vote, but go ahead.

It still sucks, though.
Title: Re: Dream Theater Survivor 2017 - The Finals - THE FINAL ROUND!!!
Post by: Crow on May 11, 2017, 01:05:52 PM
Octavarium continues its stranglehold on the annual DTF tournament, despite the change of format. Effectively its fourth straight championship. It's pretty safe to say this is the community's number 1 DT song. (And, like democratic elections, if you didn't take part, you have no right to complain about this statement.)
Comparisons can be made to the US government where you're okay with the result because it aligns with your interests even though it's blatantly clear the result has been tampered with very visibly

this round should've been metropolis vs. acos without the known tampering

Also 8vm is overrated as heck but dtf is bad like that in general so ehh
Title: Re: Dream Theater Survivor 2017 - The Finals - THE FINAL ROUND!!!
Post by: Elite on May 11, 2017, 01:49:40 PM
He voted for ACOS on the Scar account, so it's all too easy to assume the other 3 accounts he used at least in this round were votes for ACOS as well.

Ok.. So, if he voted 8V for the win, then it's possible that he voted for Metropolis in the tiebreaker round to save it.. The difference between Met and 8V was 4 votes, and if he has 6 or 7 accounts as Parama said, then the result did get screwed..

:tup

(And, like democratic elections, if you didn't take part, you have no right to complain about this statement.)

wtf does that have to do with it?
Title: Re: Dream Theater Survivor 2017 - The Finals - THE FINAL ROUND!!!
Post by: RoeDent on May 11, 2017, 02:35:32 PM
Octavarium continues its stranglehold on the annual DTF tournament, despite the change of format. Effectively its fourth straight championship. It's pretty safe to say this is the community's number 1 DT song.

Not sure where you're getting this from, if rigging of four or five votes is in the discussion and it won by one vote, but go ahead.

It still sucks, though.

Because, until the rigging is proven for certain, we have to take the result at face value.
Title: Re: Dream Theater Survivor 2017 - The Finals - THE FINAL ROUND!!!
Post by: Destiny Of Chaos on May 11, 2017, 03:22:49 PM
Perhaps we could redo the last two rounds, without polls, and hand count votes that come in the form of replies.
Title: Re: Dream Theater Survivor 2017 - The Finals - THE FINAL ROUND!!!
Post by: Crow on May 11, 2017, 03:23:31 PM
Yeah that's what we did in the pain of salvation survivor
Title: Re: Dream Theater Survivor 2017 - The Finals - THE FINAL ROUND!!!
Post by: Dave_Manchester on May 11, 2017, 03:35:33 PM
Octavarium continues its stranglehold on the annual DTF tournament, despite the change of format. Effectively its fourth straight championship. It's pretty safe to say this is the community's number 1 DT song. (And, like democratic elections, if you didn't take part, you have no right to complain about this statement.)
Comparisons can be made to the US government where you're okay with the result because it aligns with your interests even though it's blatantly clear the result has been tampered with very visibly

this round should've been metropolis vs. acos without the known tampering

Yep, pretty much this (about Metropolis vs ACOS, not the political stuff). Metropolis was very comfortably on its way to the final until the last hour or so when a sudden flurry of votes put Octavarium in the lead. And I'm 'glad' Octavarium won, I voted for it to win the final, but it's a shame it happened through blatant vote rigging.

Thanks again though to the organiser of these survivors, they've been fun, and it's a shame some guy or girl messed around with it at the end. I brought attention to Scar's rigging of his own Opeth poll (which he admitted to in the thread itself) in his album cover thread, but as others have noted, there's a defensive culture on here of moderators demanding things get reported to them and then insisting on a deathly silence on the issue. Whatever. At least the top 3 of this survivor seem to have been legitimately arrived at. Thanks again, Letter M, for doing this.
Title: Re: Dream Theater Survivor 2017 - The Finals - THE FINAL ROUND!!!
Post by: ToT-147 on May 11, 2017, 03:41:03 PM
Perhaps we could redo the last two rounds, without polls, and hand count votes that come in the form of replies.

Mmm, I don't think the 51 (or 45, or 46 :yeahright *realizes how ridiculous is what happened*) people that voted here will, all of them, post their votes in a new thread... but we could try, yeah..
Title: Re: Dream Theater Survivor 2017 - The Finals - THE FINAL ROUND!!!
Post by: jingle.boy on May 12, 2017, 05:36:40 AM
Ugh... really?  You don't like the result, are highly suspicious (and perhaps rightfully so) of voter tampering, and so you want to redo the process?  Is it really that important to those of you bitching to see ACOS as #1 (since you're convinced 8vm isn't the legitimate winner - or even 2nd place now)?  If it's THAT important to you, then I withdraw my vote, and now it's a tie.  Have yourselves a tiebreaker.

All this belly-achin is kinda insulting to Marc's efforts over the last number of months.  He's the one that put a shit-ton of work into this for all of us.  If getting the result you want is so bloody important, then bake up your own survivor, and have at it.

/end rant.
Title: Re: Dream Theater Survivor 2017 - The Finals - THE FINAL ROUND!!!
Post by: Destiny Of Chaos on May 12, 2017, 06:03:13 AM
Ugh... really?  You don't like the result, are highly suspicious (and perhaps rightfully so) of voter tampering, and so you want to redo the process?  Is it really that important to those of you bitching to see ACOS as #1 (since you're convinced 8vm isn't the legitimate winner - or even 2nd place now)?  If it's THAT important to you, then I withdraw my vote, and now it's a tie.  Have yourselves a tiebreaker.

All this belly-achin is kinda insulting to Marc's efforts over the last number of months.  He's the one that put a shit-ton of work into this for all of us.  If getting the result you want is so bloody important, then bake up your own survivor, and have at it.

/end completely misguided rant.



Fixed that for you.

We're fine with whatever song.... we hate the cheating that DID happen. That's the slap in the face to Marc's efforts, not our complaining about it. Take it from someone who knows that effort all too well.
Title: Re: Dream Theater Survivor 2017 - The Finals - THE FINAL ROUND!!!
Post by: BlackInk on May 12, 2017, 06:34:10 AM
Is it really that important to those of you bitching to see ACOS as #1.

Did you not see the people who voted against ACoS who were also "bitching"?
Title: Re: Dream Theater Survivor 2017 - The Finals - THE FINAL ROUND!!!
Post by: jingle.boy on May 12, 2017, 06:37:16 AM
That's the slap in the face to Marc's efforts, not our complaining about it. Take it from someone who knows that effort all too well.

Well, I don't see Marc taking issue with it at all.
Title: Re: Dream Theater Survivor 2017 - The Finals - THE FINAL ROUND!!!
Post by: IDontNotDoThings on May 12, 2017, 06:40:28 AM
That's the slap in the face to Marc's efforts, not our complaining about it. Take it from someone who knows that effort all too well.

Well, I don't see Marc taking issue with it at all.

Regardless of whatever has been going on with certain fun-hating, attention-seeking, no-life-having users with multiple accounts, this was a fun survivor to run

 :hat
Title: Re: Dream Theater Survivor 2017 - The Finals - THE FINAL ROUND!!!
Post by: Crow on May 12, 2017, 10:28:54 AM
Yeah how dare I want a fair and honest result  ::)
Title: Re: Dream Theater Survivor 2017 - The Finals - THE FINAL ROUND!!!
Post by: ToT-147 on May 12, 2017, 03:36:32 PM
 :lol
Title: Re: Dream Theater Survivor 2017 - The Finals - THE FINAL ROUND!!!
Post by: ? on May 13, 2017, 01:49:40 AM
Perhaps we could redo the last two rounds, without polls, and hand count votes that come in the form of replies.
I'd like that idea. The rigging wouldn't have made a difference if Octavarium had clearly been in the lead, but the results were so close that the trolling skewed them and redoing the last rounds would be fair.

Anyway, thanks for running the survivor, Marc! It's a shame it had to end this way.
Title: Re: Dream Theater Survivor 2017 - The Finals - THE FINAL ROUND!!!
Post by: Renzo on May 15, 2017, 10:54:53 AM
My all time favourite DT songs in the final round, so unlucky I found this thread when it was already over.. I would have voted Octavarium, by the way. Well, these two songs are too damn close to perfection for it to not have a 50-50 balance in the voting ;)
Title: Re: Dream Theater Survivor 2017 - The Finals - THE FINAL ROUND!!!
Post by: Crow on May 16, 2017, 09:45:59 AM
still waiting for the rerun of the last two rounds  :corn
Title: Re: Dream Theater Survivor 2017 - The Finals - THE FINAL ROUND!!!
Post by: RoeDent on May 16, 2017, 11:43:48 AM
It doesn't matter now. Thing's been ruined. (Tbh, it was ruined at round 1 of 6DOIT, but that's another story.)
Title: Re: Dream Theater Survivor 2017 - The Finals - THE FINAL ROUND!!!
Post by: MirrorMask on May 16, 2017, 11:46:07 AM
It doesn't matter now. Thing's been ruined. (Tbh, it was ruined at round 1 of 6DOIT, but that's another story.)

At least that wasn't rigged, and here and there some upsets are always nice in a tournament  :D
Title: Re: Dream Theater Survivor 2017 - The Finals - THE FINAL ROUND!!!
Post by: RoeDent on May 16, 2017, 01:14:07 PM
It doesn't matter now. Thing's been ruined. (Tbh, it was ruined at round 1 of 6DOIT, but that's another story.)

At least that wasn't rigged, and here and there some upsets are always nice in a tournament  :D

But it would've been better if the 'upset' had been for something like ITPOE, not one of their best songs ever.
Title: Re: Dream Theater Survivor 2017 - The Finals - THE FINAL ROUND!!!
Post by: Prog Snob on May 16, 2017, 01:33:33 PM
This just in.

Marc is under investigation by the FBI for his part in using Russian hacking services to fix the ballots.
Title: Re: Dream Theater Survivor 2017 - The Finals - THE FINAL ROUND!!!
Post by: RoeDent on May 17, 2017, 06:46:42 AM
The fact that Marc has not been seen anywhere on this particular thread tells me all I need to know regarding a potential rerun of these rounds. This thing is done, and we have to accept the result as it stands. Octavarium is the champion, end of.

Personally, I feel like this survivor doesn't need to be held every single year. It takes 5-6 months to run it, which only leaves us 6-7 months before the same cycle of frustrations and divisions starts again. I think we need a break from it. I'd be up for either doing it every other year (next one starting in January 2019), or waiting until, say, 6 months after the next album comes out (whatever time of year that turns out to be), and going for it then.
Title: Re: Dream Theater Survivor 2017 - The Finals - THE FINAL ROUND!!!
Post by: ? on May 17, 2017, 10:45:28 AM
It's official: Octavarium is the Donald Trump of DT songs :dangerwillrobinson:
Title: Re: Dream Theater Survivor 2017 - The Finals - THE FINAL ROUND!!!
Post by: Crow on May 17, 2017, 10:58:25 AM
weird that we'd abandon the survivor two rounds before the end then. oh well. Guess we'll never know what won.
Title: Re: Dream Theater Survivor 2017 - The Finals - THE FINAL ROUND!!!
Post by: jakepriest on May 17, 2017, 01:09:57 PM
weird that we'd abandon the survivor two rounds before the end then. oh well. Guess we'll never know what won.

jesus christ let it go already
Title: Re: Dream Theater Survivor 2017 - The Finals - THE FINAL ROUND!!!
Post by: Crow on May 17, 2017, 01:24:33 PM
don't set a precedent for accepting rigged results then  :corn
Title: Re: Dream Theater Survivor 2017 - The Finals - THE FINAL ROUND!!!
Post by: TheCountOfNYC on May 17, 2017, 05:58:49 PM
weird that we'd abandon the survivor two rounds before the end then. oh well. Guess we'll never know what won.

jesus christ let it go already
Title: Re: Dream Theater Survivor 2017 - The Finals - THE FINAL ROUND!!!
Post by: Crow on May 17, 2017, 07:10:46 PM
don't set a precedent for accepting rigged results then  :corn
Title: Re: Dream Theater Survivor 2017 - The Finals - THE FINAL ROUND!!!
Post by: Adami on May 17, 2017, 11:36:11 PM
Well, as someone who wanted ACOS to win I can say this, about the results....






THE WORLD WILL NEVER FEEL WORTHWHILE AGAIN!
Title: Re: Dream Theater Survivor 2017 - The Finals - THE FINAL ROUND!!!
Post by: jingle.boy on May 18, 2017, 06:54:45 AM
weird that we'd abandon the survivor two rounds before the end then. oh well. Guess we'll never know what won.

jesus christ let it go already

So. Much. This.

It's not even worth responding anymore.
It's official: Octavarium is the Donald Trump of DT songs :dangerwillrobinson:

Which makes ACOS Hilary Clinton?
Title: Re: Dream Theater Survivor 2017 - The Finals - THE FINAL ROUND!!!
Post by: Crow on May 18, 2017, 11:11:09 AM
don't set a precedent for accepting rigged results then  :corn
Title: Re: Dream Theater Survivor 2017 - The Finals - THE FINAL ROUND!!!
Post by: Evermind on May 18, 2017, 11:22:46 AM
For what it's worth, I also think you should just drop it, Parama. Feel free to quote that quote of yours one more time at me.
Title: Re: Dream Theater Survivor 2017 - The Finals - THE FINAL ROUND!!!
Post by: Crow on May 18, 2017, 11:27:24 AM
don't set a precedent for accepting rigged results then  :corn
just for you

seriously though, we have a stickied topic from 2011 about this specifically (https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=22765.0). why even bother running survivors if we're not going to care about accurate results in the slightest?
Title: Re: Dream Theater Survivor 2017 - The Finals - THE FINAL ROUND!!!
Post by: Evermind on May 18, 2017, 12:02:40 PM
I would say this is up to the person who runs the Survivor. If it would happen in Ayreon Survivor, I would definitely recreate the polls to get the most honest result possible. However, we're all different people and everyone's perspective on this kind of things is different. I pretty much agree with RoeDent here:

The fact that Marc has not been seen anywhere on this particular thread tells me all I need to know regarding a potential rerun of these rounds. This thing is done, and we have to accept the result as it stands. Octavarium is the champion, end of.

Title: Re: Dream Theater Survivor 2017 - The Finals - THE FINAL ROUND!!!
Post by: Crow on May 18, 2017, 12:21:07 PM
Plot twist: The Letter M was Scar all along :jamaritard:
Title: Re: Dream Theater Survivor 2017 - The Finals - THE FINAL ROUND!!!
Post by: home on May 18, 2017, 02:18:18 PM
For all we know Scar was sabotaging the survivor from the start  :P
Title: Re: Dream Theater Survivor 2017 - The Finals - THE FINAL ROUND!!!
Post by: The Letter M on May 18, 2017, 02:43:55 PM
For all we know Scar was sabotaging the survivor from the start  :P

This. There is no certain way to know whether or not the tampering began in the Finals, or the first round of the first album survivor. Short of IP-banning Scar's multiple IPs and being CERTAIN that they won't create anymore new accounts, and running the WHOLE SURVIVOR with no polls and only accepting posted votes by people with X+ amount of posts (to weed out new accounts), can we ever say that this survivor MIGHT have *accurate results*.

That being said, what's done is done, and the reason I haven't posted in here in the last week is because for me, running survivors is something I do *for fun*, and it's not anything super serious that I worry about on my time away from DTF. The most I worry about is whether or not I get the next round up in time, but beyond that, I don't care about petty message board politics and feuds and things like that. I'm not very mad about the results, and I agree with many of the others that, because it was so close, it'd be hard to tell which one would win anyway. If the last round ended in a tie, that would have been the final result anyway (because I had the round up for so long, anyone who WANTED to vote should have by the end of it, so doing a re-vote would not have mattered to me).

It's done, folks. Wait until a year or two after the next DT album and I'll run this again, if there is enough interest. Until, I hope you guys consider joining my Genesis (and other future) Survivor(s)!

-Marc.
Title: Re: Dream Theater Survivor 2017 - The Finals - THE FINAL ROUND!!!
Post by: cramx3 on May 18, 2017, 03:14:29 PM
Good way to look at it.  This isn't important so getting all worked up is only feeding the troll.  Time to move on.
Title: Re: Dream Theater Survivor 2017 - The Finals - THE FINAL ROUND!!!
Post by: Crow on May 18, 2017, 03:24:18 PM
okay but please ban the troll
Title: Re: Dream Theater Survivor 2017 - The Finals - THE FINAL ROUND!!!
Post by: ToT-147 on May 18, 2017, 04:43:52 PM
why even bother running survivors if we're not going to care about accurate results in the slightest?

I think we all here agree with that, but the problem is not being able to prove the results were rigged.. So I don't know if a ban it's even possible..
Title: Re: Dream Theater Survivor 2017 - The Finals - THE FINAL ROUND!!!
Post by: Prog Snob on May 18, 2017, 05:38:27 PM
(https://m.popkey.co/0f1cdf/6m6z1_s-200x150.gif?c=popkey-web&p=starbucks&i=frappuccino-brands&l=search&f=.gif)
Title: Re: Dream Theater Survivor 2017 - The Finals - THE FINAL ROUND!!!
Post by: Mladen on May 19, 2017, 01:19:42 AM
Good way to look at it.  This isn't important so getting all worked up is only feeding the troll.  Time to move on.