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General => General Music Discussion => Topic started by: gmillerdrake on January 01, 2017, 10:46:08 AM
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I'm curious as to how you all think the MP Shattered Fortress tour is going to go? I'm nervous for MP, and I don't know why. Certainly he'll have the talent level in musicians to pull it off, but I can't help but think that there is a slim margin there where it's going to sound and come off really great.....or it's going to be kind of campy? I don't know....very curious as to how it's going to go.
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I think that, aside from The Glass Prison, the whole thing is some of the worst music DT ever made. So I doubt it would come off any worse for me. And he'll definitely have high-level musicians. I just don't know how many people would really be interested in it. What size venues are they playing?
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As for size of the venues, he's playing some big prog festivals in Europe.
I'm more interested in who the rest of the band is than anything else though. Based on that I'll decide whether I think it will sound good (which it probably will).
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I'm glad the suite will be played, but it's probably going to come off as a DT cover band. A really good one probably, but still a cover band. MP has a lot of personality in his playing and sticks out in most of his musical projects, but after all that he is still the drummer. It will feel lacking without DT.
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.....or it's going to be kind of campy?
It's MP, so of course it will be campy. I don't even mean that derogatorily.
I think it'll be cool. I think, in general, people should just relax and enjoy it for what it is. (not aimed at the OP)
I think that, aside from The Glass Prison, the whole thing is some of the worst music DT ever made.
I love This Dying Soul. IMO, The Glass Prison is one of DT's worst aging songs. Just my opinion.
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I am sure he will get good musicians to play it, but the suite itself as a whole isn't that great, so I can't imagine it coming off that well.
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Are they playing more than the suite?
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This Dying soul is one of my favorite DT songs. Absolutely LOVE it. I also like glass prison.
The rest of the songs that are apart of the suite I don't care for at all.
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Also, do you guys think they'll play Repentance post-solo?
I know whenever they've played it live (be it DT or Flying Colors) they always ended it there.
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It will be awesome. Since Dream Theater all composed the music, there will be something just a tad off for me, but it will still be very enjoyable. I love MP's suite and it will be awesome to hear. :)
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Also, do you guys think they'll play Repentance post-solo?
I know whenever they've played it live (be it DT or Flying Colors) they always ended it there.
I'm interested to see how they do that transition in general. The other tracks are pretty straightforward and it isn't hard to find where the transitions are supposed to be. The transition from Repentance to Shattered Fortress is left a bit more ambiguous. There are a bunch of different directions they could go there.
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Also, do you guys think they'll play Repentance post-solo?
I know whenever they've played it live (be it DT or Flying Colors) they always ended it there.
I'm interested to see how they do that transition in general. The other tracks are pretty straightforward and it isn't hard to find where the transitions are supposed to be. The transition from Repentance to Shattered Fortress is left a bit more ambiguous. There are a bunch of different directions they could go there.
Agreed. But I think they will play the suite in entirety including the post Repentance solo since it's his major step in life.
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Also, do you guys think they'll play Repentance post-solo?
I know whenever they've played it live (be it DT or Flying Colors) they always ended it there.
I'm interested to see how they do that transition in general. The other tracks are pretty straightforward and it isn't hard to find where the transitions are supposed to be. The transition from Repentance to Shattered Fortress is left a bit more ambiguous. There are a bunch of different directions they could go there.
Yea, live for sure. I know when I made my super-edit of the studio versions, I did a cross from a fadeout of Repentance and the fade in for TSF, and it worked really well.
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I am sure that when all of the legal stuff was sorted out when he left the band, Portnoy made sure he could use the apologies from fellow musicians in Repentance if he were ever to play the whole thing live like he is doing now, so I am sure those will be a part of it.
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I am sure that when all of the legal stuff was sorted out when he left the band, Portnoy made sure he could use the apologies from fellow musicians in Repentance if he were ever to play the whole thing live like he is doing now, so I am sure those will be a part of it.
Maybe, but then there's the 40 minutes of vocal harmonies that need to be perfect to work.
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Maybe, but then there's the 40 minutes of vocal harmonies that need to be perfect to work.
Heh, true. I hope he is smart enough to not use the guy from Haken, like many have speculated he will. He doesn't have the voice to pull off DT songs.
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I'm glad the suite will be played, but it's probably going to come off as a DT cover band. A really good one probably, but still a cover band. MP has a lot of personality in his playing and sticks out in most of his musical projects, but after all that he is still the drummer. It will feel lacking without DT.
Basically this.
Are they playing more than the suite?
When time allows, yes, it has been confirmed. Other songs Portnoy wrote lyrics for.
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Maybe, but then there's the 40 minutes of vocal harmonies that need to be perfect to work.
Heh, true. I hope he is smart enough to not use the guy from Haken, like many have speculated he will. He doesn't have the voice to pull off DT songs.
Exactly. He's good for Haken, but that's all about it for me.
B.Lee
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Yeah, I love Ross, but don't see him doing particularly well with a full set of Dream Theater material.
Just based on the festivals that they've booked together it's painfully obvious that at least one member of Haken will be a part of this. My strong money on who that will be is Diego. He's friends with both Jordan and Mike, can play the material, and can handle any of the off the wall instruments and such that Jordan has used for other material that might be played. Others I'm not so sure about, but I feel good about Diego on keys.
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As I said somewhere else, I hope that he gets good musicians and that they don't try to play the suite note by note but with a different/personal interpretation. Then it could get really interesting.
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I think that, aside from The Glass Prison, the whole thing is some of the worst music DT ever made.
I actually think it could be an *excellent* epic if somebody (MP) sat down and curated the whole thing. There's fluff, there's repetition, if he cut that out it could be an awesome 30 minutes of music.
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Glass Prison - Great
This Dying Soul - Good but goes on a bit
The Root of All Evil - Great
Repentance - Yawn
The Shattered Fortress - Good but nothing new.
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I had a dream last night that I saw this band perform, and instrumentally at least they sounded spot on. Don't recall any vocals or who the other band members were as I was focusing on Mike.
I feel like if he managed to get Eric Gillette, Derek Sherinian, and idk, Tony Levin? They'd be more than capable of getting the sound right.
As for vocals, no idea. Love him or hate him, James Labrie has a unique voice that's basically impossible to do an impression of. But I think with this aggressive style of music (the entire AA-Suite is more or less just heavy/thrash prog), Mike could use his friends in Metal Allegience? Mark Osegueda in particular. Maybe Russell Allen too (fingers crossed, lol). Are Mike and Russ still friends? Haven't heard much about the two of them talking since AMob.
I actually think it could be an *excellent* epic if somebody (MP) sat down and curated the whole thing. There's fluff, there's repetition, if he cut that out it could be an awesome 30 minutes of music.
The only problem here is that it's kind of important to include basically every single lyric and play all the repeating riffs in order to establish some continuity in the entire thing. Otherwise the reprises in Shattered Fortress (song) probably wont work.
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I think the reprises, when played back to back, are too much in its current form. I remember listening to the 12SS once, and there was a lot of "I just heard that riff a minute ago".
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It has the same problem of binge watching TV show compared versus watching one episode a week after it's being aired.
Seven years after it's cool to hear Shattered Fortress and remembering all the songs, but when you hear it all in a row, it's kinda repetitive. Even though I personally don't dislike the song.
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I think the reprises, when played back to back, are too much in its current form. I remember listening to the 12SS once, and there was a lot of "I just heard that riff a minute ago".
Definitely. It's far, far too repetitive.
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Yeah, I love Ross, but don't see him doing particularly well with a full set of Dream Theater material.
Just based on the festivals that they've booked together it's painfully obvious that at least one member of Haken will be a part of this. My strong money on who that will be is Diego. He's friends with both Jordan and Mike, can play the material, and can handle any of the off the wall instruments and such that Jordan has used for other material that might be played. Others I'm not so sure about, but I feel good about Diego on keys.
No comment. ;)
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Yeah, I love Ross, but don't see him doing particularly well with a full set of Dream Theater material.
Just based on the festivals that they've booked together it's painfully obvious that at least one member of Haken will be a part of this. My strong money on who that will be is Diego. He's friends with both Jordan and Mike, can play the material, and can handle any of the off the wall instruments and such that Jordan has used for other material that might be played. Others I'm not so sure about, but I feel good about Diego on keys.
No comment. ;)
You dirty inside rat. BTW I talked about you to the boys. I sexed you up with them. Not that you needed it. :lol
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I was thinking about this the other day, about who MP would get to play, and I have to wonder - will the band be ONE band, or will they have multiple players swap about? For instance, he could get one guitarist for the show whole, or perhaps they trade off between songs? Then I started thinking about which guitarists MP could get, and Eric Gillette came to mind, with his JP-inspired sounds, but there's also Paul Gilbert, who has played with MP on various live shows to cover other bands (which this is basically a cover band), but there's also Tony MacAlpine from MP's PSMS project.
I figure MP might try and get Derek, though does Derek have the chops and sounds to keep up with Jordan's parts for those songs? I haven't heard Derek play in some years, so I'm not sure what he's up to.
As for bassists, MP knows a SLEW of them, all really good, so I'm not that concerned on that end.
My BIGGEST concern is who he'll get to sing, and this is where I wouldn't mind having multiple vocalists. Maybe one for each song, or perhaps, one for each of the 12 movements/steps of the suite? That would be interesting, since each movement has vocals in them.
-Marc.
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Picking Derek to play all JR songs would be.....interesting and would do a lot to shut up his critics, I'd be good with it. I think he could keep up.
I hope he doesn't pick MacAlpine though. Just cannot get into that dude's tone. I doubt I'd even listen to what they do if he's a part of it.
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MP already confirmed (in a very classy way) that Derek won't be participating: https://worldprognation.com/be-prog-my-friend-to-feature-mike-portnoys-the-shattered-fortress/
I’ll just nip it in the bud now…Derek Sherinian has as much interest in playing Jordan-era DT music as I do playing The Astonishing! ;)
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:rollin
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My BIGGEST concern is who he'll get to sing, and this is where I wouldn't mind having multiple vocalists. Maybe one for each song, or perhaps, one for each of the 12 movements/steps of the suite? That would be interesting, since each movement has vocals in them.
That's a cool idea.
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MP already confirmed (in a very classy way) that Derek won't be participating: https://worldprognation.com/be-prog-my-friend-to-feature-mike-portnoys-the-shattered-fortress/
I’ll just nip it in the bud now…Derek Sherinian has as much interest in playing Jordan-era DT music as I do playing The Astonishing! ;)
Guess he won't be re-joining the band then !
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John Petrucci @JPetrucci 02 Jan 2017
Thanks Mike ! We won't be playing any Adrenaline Mob covers on our I&W25 tour! :)
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Mike has no interest in playing The Astonishing which is why he's just released a Double Concept Album !!!11
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MP already confirmed (in a very classy way) that Derek won't be participating: https://worldprognation.com/be-prog-my-friend-to-feature-mike-portnoys-the-shattered-fortress/
I’ll just nip it in the bud now…Derek Sherinian has as much interest in playing Jordan-era DT music as I do playing The Astonishing! ;)
Geez. Of all the possible ways he could have said that.......
Anyway, it should be one band, it would be weird to have musicians coming and going, especially the singer.
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I didn't even think of Eric Gillette. It'll probably be him.
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MP already confirmed (in a very classy way) that Derek won't be participating: https://worldprognation.com/be-prog-my-friend-to-feature-mike-portnoys-the-shattered-fortress/
I’ll just nip it in the bud now…Derek Sherinian has as much interest in playing Jordan-era DT music as I do playing The Astonishing! ;)
Geez. Of all the possible ways he could have said that.......
Anyway, it should be one band, it would be weird to have musicians coming and going, especially the singer.
Agreed. Seriously though, couldn't Mike just have said Derek wasn't going to be involved?! Why go out of your way to make a comment like that? Oh well, sounds about right :lol
And I agree in regards to one band or multiple players coming in and out. I think it would work better to just have one group the whole way through.
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I think MP puts his foot in his mouth quite frequently, but I don't find the Sherinian comment problematic at all.
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I think MP puts his foot in his mouth quite frequently, but I don't find the Sherinian comment problematic at all.
I don't necessarily think it's problematic either, I just think it would have been way easier to simply say Derek wasn't going to be involved that's all. Doesn't really matter to me either way though.
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Yeah Mike has to bring everything back to Dream Theater or to be about HIM.
But he's totally over Dream Theater guys.
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Not only is there nothing whatsoever wrong with that particular post of his, I think it's quite funny. People really need to lighten up and stop constantly looking for faults with MP.
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Not only is there nothing whatsoever wrong with that particular post of his, I think it's quite funny. People really need to lighten up and stop constantly looking for faults with MP.
Is this directed at me? Once again, all I said was that he didn't need to say it, he could have just said Derek wasn't involved... I'm not looking for faults with MP at all.
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Yea MP's post was funny. The usual suspects are once again overreacting.
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Not only is there nothing whatsoever wrong with that particular post of his, I think it's quite funny. People really need to lighten up and stop constantly looking for faults with MP.
Is this directed at me? Once again, all I said was that he didn't need to say it, he could have just said Derek wasn't involved... I'm not looking for faults with MP at all.
Not directed at any individual, though it was prompted by Kotow who ironically posted 4 times in 3 hours about how MP needs to move on. :P
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Yea MP's post was funny. The usual suspects are once again overreacting.
I am usually firmly in that list of usual suspects, but that was just plain a funny comment by MP.
Then again, of course we all know MP secretly practices all post-MP albums to make the transition smooth. ;D
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I think MP puts his foot in his mouth quite frequently, but I don't find the Sherinian comment problematic at all.
Absolutely this.
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I think it'll sound good, but obviously, a bit different with JLB not singing. Frankly, I expect something along the lines of PSMS when they did DT songs. Pretty tight musically, but a little different, and a different voice presenting it. Wouldn't surprise me if PSMS was the actual band. As for singer, here is a prediction -- Nathan James of Inglorious, who opened for Winery Dogs last year. The man is my favorite singer right now. Just an amazing voice. He was on TSO for a couple of years, has sung for Uli Roth, and his band, Inglorious, released its debut record last year.
edited to fix spelling...
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Not only is there nothing whatsoever wrong with that particular post of his, I think it's quite funny. People really need to lighten up and stop constantly looking for faults with MP.
It's not a big deal to me, but the DT remark just feels unnecessary. He could've said the same thing without going into the "me vs them" zone for the billionth time.
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I think it'll sound good, but obviously, a bit different with JLB not singing. Frankly, I expect something along the lines of PSMS when they did DT songs. Pretty tight musically, but a little different, and a different voice presenting it. Wouldn't surprise me if PSMS was the actual band. As for singer, here is a prediction -- Natham James of Inglorious, who opened for Winery Dogs last year. The man is my favorite singer right now. Just an amazing voice. He was on TSO for a couple of years, has sung for Uli Roth, and his band, Inglorious, released its debut record last year.
As a fan of Inglorious, that would be a cool choice. He's definitely got the chops to pull it off vocally, and also not an obvious choice of someone within prog with that kind of voice.
I expect it will sound at least decent, but it really comes down to the musicians involved, and how they approach it. I think the JR parts will end up lacking, and they'll need a good prog metal guitarist to pull off all of those riffs and solos well. I'm excited either way to finally hear the entire 12SS in one go as intended.
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Not only is there nothing whatsoever wrong with that particular post of his, I think it's quite funny. People really need to lighten up and stop constantly looking for faults with MP.
It's not a big deal to me, but the DT remark just feels unnecessary. He could've said the same thing without going into the "me vs them" zone for the billionth time.
Exactly, that's what I was trying to say earlier, you worded it much better.
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Not only is there nothing whatsoever wrong with that particular post of his, I think it's quite funny. People really need to lighten up and stop constantly looking for faults with MP.
It's not a big deal to me, but the DT remark just feels unnecessary. He could've said the same thing without going into the "me vs them" zone for the billionth time.
Exactly, that's what I was trying to say earlier, you worded it much better.
Yes. Exactly.
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I dont think MP's remark was necessary, but when has MP ever bit his tongue? Just par for the course with him. It isnt something I would have said in his shoes, but it isnt a big deal, either.
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I don't really understand what makes a remark necessary vs unnecessary. If people should only include "necessary" information and comment then this forum would be a pretty cold, dead place.
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I don't really understand what makes a remark necessary vs unnecessary. If people should only include "necessary" information and comment then this forum would be a pretty cold, dead place.
True enough. But Mike's smart enough to know that even if he meant a comment in a more dead-panned, common sense way (meaning, he's never been a a part of that, why would he want to play it), the fans are absolutely going to run with it, making the comment become a little jab at DT, which he then could deny later. Mike's not dumb. But the antics are...unnecessary. :lol
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Regarding Mike's "comment" - I don't see any issue, and in fact, his analogy is pretty spot-on now that I think about it more. Why would Derek want to play DT music from after his time in DT? True, he covered some LTE with PSMS, but I feel like that was a bit different, even though he was still covering Jordan's parts, but considering how far after Derek's time the 12SS came, I don't really see him wanting to cover it.
-Marc.
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Dunno, maybe "uncalled for" would've been a better word(s) - we're playing with semantics here. :lol But anyway, my point is that even when he explained why Derek isn't involved, he couldn't resist making himself the center of attention and feeding the MP vs DT division once more: "Sorry, but Derek isn't interested in playing the parts of the dude who replaced him, for understandable reasons. Oh and btw, I was replaced by someone else in DT too, and they put out an album I don't care about lol."
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I cant BELIEVE Mike made another statement on the internet! What a fucking asshole! When will he learn???
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I expect some good professional musicians who will pull it off just fine, maybe the vocals will be the most notable difference which I am sure will overall be fine and performed well, but open to a lot of criticism just like JLB is on this forum. But as someone else pointed, most of the 12 step suite isn't that great so it's hard for me to think this is going to be something great.
It would be interesting if DT were also performing some of these songs on their tour.
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I expect some good professional musicians who will pull it off just fine, maybe the vocals will be the most notable difference which I am sure will overall be fine and performed well, but open to a lot of criticism just like JLB is on this forum. But as someone else pointed, most of the 12 step suite isn't that great so it's hard for me to think this is going to be something great.
It would be interesting if DT were also performing some of these songs on their tour.
My thought as well. The whole suite must be a chore to listen to in a row.
B.Lee
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I'm curious what they'll do for the solos. Learning the riffs is one thing, learning those solos note for note is a different beast all together. Whoever he picks will likely be busy guys in general. I wonder if they'll just get the basic feel of the solo and improvise, like what Steve Morse did with Repentance.
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^ the solo in Repentance is by far the easiest solo in the whole 12SS. Regarding what Steve Morse did, I think it fits the general 'vibe' of Flying Colors better to improvise rather than copy note for note. If MP wants to do the entire 12SS as intended, I think he should also leave the solos intact
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^ Yeah I agree, I'd hope they try (key word there) to play everything note for note as best they possibly can.
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The project will probably be OK.
MP's comment was hilarious and there is nothing wrong with it.
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I wonder how much preparation this thing will get. These types of short-lived projects have a tendency to be "everybody practices at home, then we meet the day before the first gig and iron out the obvious kinks". The first few gigs are then somewhat rough around the edges.
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But "the first few gigs" is all that there will ever be for this kind of project. I would assume Mike wouldn't want his deeply personal, longtime project to be remembered as a sloppy trainwreck.
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What is the tour exactly? I only knew of the ProgPower show and the Cruise.
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I wonder how much preparation this thing will get. These types of short-lived projects have a tendency to be "everybody practices at home, then we meet the day before the first gig and iron out the obvious kinks". The first few gigs are then somewhat rough around the edges.
Yeah, and some of these shows are months apart from each other, which makes it pretty challenging for the musicians to become a tight unit unless they rehearse a lot together. However, I'm confident that everyone in the line-up is a capable player and that this won't be a trainwreck like Geoff Tate's version of Queensryche.
What is the tour exactly? I only knew of the ProgPower show and the Cruise.
https://bravewords.com/news/mike-portnoy-s-shattered-fortress-confirms-mexico-city-show-for-september-2017
Confirmed Shattered Fortress shows so far:
February
7 - 11 - Cruise To The Edge
June
30th - Barcelona, Spain - Be Prog My Friend
July
14 - Loreley, Germany - Night Of The Prog
September
8 - Atlanta, GA - Prog Power USA
10 - Mexico City, Mexico - El Plaza Condesa
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Yea, not much of a tour per say, just select shows which are all spread out too. Do we know if he plans on using the same musicians at all shows that may be difficult with being so spread out and I am assuming he is looking at active musicians (but maybe I am wrong).
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Yea, not much of a tour per say, just select shows which are all spread out too. Do we know if he plans on using the same musicians at all shows that may be difficult with being so spread out and I am assuming he is looking at active musicians (but maybe I am wrong).
It does state "So Far". He could add more .
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Yea, not much of a tour per say, just select shows which are all spread out too. Do we know if he plans on using the same musicians at all shows that may be difficult with being so spread out and I am assuming he is looking at active musicians (but maybe I am wrong).
It does state "So Far". He could add more .
Yeah, I would expect a show in England at least. And perhaps South America, but that's tougher.
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I wouldn't mind checking it out just because of the vocals alone, it's gonna be interesting not hearing JLB.
You know, this is the chance to get the vocalist he felt like having during the times The Saga was written.
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You know, this is the chance to get the vocalist he felt like having during the times The Saga was written.
That will be interesting, I hope he takes advantage. Bashing JLB while he was in the band was messed up, but it does make me curious what kind of singer he had in mind.
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You know, this is the chance to get the vocalist he felt like having during the times The Saga was written.
That will be interesting, I hope he takes advantage. Bashing JLB while he was in the band was messed up, but it does make me curious what kind of singer he had in mind.
Maybe he sings it all himself?
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Not only is there nothing whatsoever wrong with that particular post of his, I think it's quite funny. People really need to lighten up and stop constantly looking for faults with MP.
You don't have to look very hard.
As it stands, I think his comment was actually hilarious and not tactless in anyway. He has been open about Derek not wanting to play an LTE cover on the previous cruise.
As for the band, I definitely think there will be something off about it. I finally relented and purchased PSMS and enjoyed it quite a bit but the bass and guitar did sound a little weird. Great musicians but very different styles from Petrruci and Myung. Add in a vocalist who no doubt can't duplicate LaBrie's unique voice and....well, I'm sure it'll be a pretty good performance but kind of like PSMS, I don't think I'll go back and listen to it much.
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....well, I'm sure it'll be a pretty good performance but kind of like PSMS, I don't think I'll go back and listen to it much.
Same here, but I think that was going to be a given no matter what. I mean, I really like most of the 12SS songs. And I used to have a copy of the really good fan edit of the entire thing being put together as a single piece, and thought it was really cool. But it is extremely time-consuming and exhausting to listen to. So even if we lived in an alternate universe where DT were performing the entire thing, I still wouldn't listen to it much. I'm glad Mike is doing it. It needed to be done. And the fact that I may not listen to it more than "once in a while" isn't by any means a downer to me.
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Ive been meaning to sequence the 12ss on itunes in a playlist. Will do so. As for the performance, agreed. Cool, but not something i go back to often. Now, if his band does some dt classics, however....
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??? Didn't I send you a copy of the one I had? I hope so, because I was planning to ask you to return the favor. :lol
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I'm by no means a sound expert but I'm skilled enough with some copy / paste / merge tools, I made my own version of the suite with the songs connected.
I'm curious the most the way the Repentance > Shattered Fortress transition will go live, if after the end of the spoken section the song would start the way DT started it live in 2014, or if they go for a straight punch with the entire intro skipped in favor of the fast, "real" start of the song... the way I did it.
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??? Didn't I send you a copy of the one I had? I hope so, because I was planning to ask you to return the favor. :lol
Nope. Or if you did, i dont remember getting it.
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I'm by no means a sound expert but I'm skilled enough with some copy / paste / merge tools, I made my own version of the suite with the songs connected.
I'm curious the most the way the Repentance > Shattered Fortress transition will go live, if after the end of the spoken section the song would start the way DT started it live in 2014, or if they go for a straight punch with the entire intro skipped in favor of the fast, "real" start of the song... the way I did it.
I believe I posted a file on here at the DTF once that showed off the inter-song transitions that I made up for my personal remix of the 12SS. For Repentance-TSF, I used the stems from the box set to create a unique intro for TSF. After the final note of Repentance, after I think 6 beats, I started with just drums doing the opening riff for 4 bars, then entered the bass for 4 bars, then the guitars as the actual start of the song. It creates a nice tiered and staggered opening, which quaintly opens with Mike pounding away at the slightly faster 6/8 from the end of Repentance.
It'll be interesting to see how Mike does his own transition live, though I'd be a little proud if he ended up doing what I did, or something similar.
The other transitions are pretty self-explanatory, especially since TGP/TDS has already been done live. For TDS/TROAE, I used the ending riff as the last run of that riff before the main groove begins in TROAE (skipping most of the opening of that song). Not sure how that'll work live considering the tunings are different. As for TROAE/Repentance, I used the tempo and time of TROAE's few beats (since the piano slows down) and waited 8 beats after the final note, to let that last C ring out and fade into the opening bass.
It'll be nice to have a complete live version of this, with "official" transitions and all, though part of me hopes it ends up being similar to what I have, because I'd like a studio version of the live version to have. I've actually been hoping that Mike would one day release an EP of all 5 songs, remastered and remixed to flow together, cut into 12 indexed tracks. I'd buy that in a heartbeat!
-Marc.
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I'm curious the most the way the Repentance > Shattered Fortress transition will go live, if after the end of the spoken section the song would start the way DT started it live in 2014, or if they go for a straight punch with the entire intro skipped in favor of the fast, "real" start of the song... the way I did it.
I made my continuous 12SS with the instrumental TSF spliced in the beginning, then switching to the vocal one seamlessly. That way, right after Corey Taylor says his last part, it hits you full force. It actually works perfectly, and is actually my favorite of the four transitions.
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Yeah, that's what I liked about it; that after the final silence and only hearing "The truth is the truth, and all you can do is to learn with it" you get it with the fast punch of the "real" start of the song, skipping the whole intro.
As for the other transitions, I agree with The Letter M about the way they're done, it will be fun to discover the "official" way they will be done!
-
T minus 90 minutes or so until his first set, which I think will focus on non DT material. Supposedly some Transatlantic and probably Flying Colors plus other stuff. Only thing that's been ruled out is OSI, evidently Mike invited Jim Matheos but it didn't work out.
-
Do we know who is in his band or will that also be found out when they hit the stage?
-
T minus 90 minutes or so until his first set, which I think will focus on non DT material. Supposedly some Transatlantic and probably Flying Colors plus other stuff. Only thing that's been ruled out is OSI, evidently Mike invited Jim Matheos but it didn't work out.
Fates Warning is in the midst of a tour and has a show tonight, unfortunately.
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Do we know who is in his band or will that also be found out when they hit the stage?
I don't think it's been announced yet, so presumably it'll be a surprise. Thanks to my contacts I have a pretty good idea of who is in the band, but interested to know if I'm 100% accurate or not. :P
-
T minus 90 minutes or so until his first set, which I think will focus on non DT material. Supposedly some Transatlantic and probably Flying Colors plus other stuff. Only thing that's been ruled out is OSI, evidently Mike invited Jim Matheos but it didn't work out.
Fates Warning is in the midst of a tour and has a show tonight, unfortunately.
I don't think there's anything to suggest Mike invited Jim or anything. To my knowledge most of his other projects aren't represented in the band either.
-
T minus 90 minutes or so until his first set, which I think will focus on non DT material. Supposedly some Transatlantic and probably Flying Colors plus other stuff. Only thing that's been ruled out is OSI, evidently Mike invited Jim Matheos but it didn't work out.
Fates Warning is in the midst of a tour and has a show tonight, unfortunately.
I don't think there's anything to suggest Mike invited Jim or anything. To my knowledge most of his other projects aren't represented in the band either.
Shared an elevator with Mike and a few other people not long ago and he was asked about OSI. Seems like the cast of supporting characters will be rotating throughout as well.
-
The dude (MP) has got his shit together like none other! :hefdaddy This will be a smoking event (something which DT has not been since he split).
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John Petrucci @JPetrucci 02 Jan 2017
Thanks Mike ! We won't be playing any Adrenaline Mob covers on our I&W25 tour! :)
[/ :facepalm: :loser:quote]
-
Reports?
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Reports?
Waiting for the show to start, should be any minute now.
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All of Flying Colors here to start.
-
How weird would it be if they pulled out ACOS? DT and MP playing the song at the same time in their respective tours.
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Mike, Neal, Pete, Ted, and Bill from theNMB starting some Transatlantic.
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I don't really get any weirdness. They both have entirely appropriate reasons for wanting to play it. I think it would be cool if Mike did.
-
Mike, Neal, Pete, Ted, and Bill from theNMB starting some Transatlantic.
Can you be more specific?
-
All the Flying Colors guys out first
Infinite Fire
Place in Your World
Kayla
Mask Machine
Everyone but Mike and Neal left the stage and they brought out Pete, announced Ted Leonard as Roine's replacement, and brought out Bill from the NMB as the utility fifth musician.
Into the Blue
We All Need Some Light Now
Stranger In Your Soul
Daniel Gildenlow came out to do vocals for the part he recorded on the album version of Into the Blue as well as contribute backing vocals for We All Need Some Light Now. Great set overall, seeing the end of Stranger In Your Soul live is always a borderline religious experience for me.
-
I don't really get any weirdness. They both have entirely appropriate reasons for wanting to play it. I think it would be cool if Mike did.
I think it would be a crazy coincidence and I would wonder if the either side (MP or DT) would find it odd, but as a fan, I don't think it would be weird or anything.
-
I don't really get any weirdness. They both have entirely appropriate reasons for wanting to play it. I think it would be cool if Mike did.
I think it would be a crazy coincidence and I would wonder if the either side (MP or DT) would find it odd, but as a fan, I don't think it would be weird or anything.
I wouldn't think so. I mean, DT is celebrating the anniversary of the I&W era, and ACOS is an important part of that, so it is natural for them to play it. MP is celebrating a milestone in his personal life by reflecting back on his musical career, so it would be natural for him to play it as well (I don't think he will, but it would be a no-brainer if he did). I don't think either side would find it odd, or even find it to be a coincidence.
-
Given the timings I'm expecting the 12SS, The Best of Times, and A Change of Seasons on Friday night. I don't think there's any weirdness in both of them playing it at the same time.
-
Interesting that The Whirlwind was the one Transatlantic album to not get represented there, considering Portnoy thinks it's one of the three best records he's ever done.
-
Interesting that The Whirlwind was the one Transatlantic album to not get represented there, considering Portnoy thinks it's one of the three best records he's ever done.
Yeah, Nick and I had that conversation when talking about what the setlist might be. Figured they might do the same medley from the Kaleidoscope tour since Ted would be familiar with it, but I guess maybe they didn't want to split it up.
-
So the DT stuff isn't tonight?
I'm with Bosk re ACOS. Nothing weird about it at all. Makes sense for both MP and DT to play it this year.
-
So the DT stuff isn't tonight?
I'm with Bosk re ACOS. Nothing weird about it at all. Makes sense for both MP and DT to play it this year.
Nope. His birthday celebration spans two sets, one opened the cruise today and the other is the finale on Friday. He's playing the 12SS plus ??? on Friday.
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John Petrucci @JPetrucci 02 Jan 2017
Thanks Mike ! We won't be playing any Adrenaline Mob covers on our I&W25 tour! :)
[/ :facepalm: :loser:quote]
Have another go.
-
Looking at the line up and the set list, that looks like quite a party. :tup
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John Petrucci @JPetrucci 02 Jan 2017
Thanks Mike ! We won't be playing any Adrenaline Mob covers on our I&W25 tour! :)
[/ :facepalm: :loser:quote]
Have another go.
:lol
-
So the DT stuff isn't tonight?
I'm with Bosk re ACOS. Nothing weird about it at all. Makes sense for both MP and DT to play it this year.
Nope. His birthday celebration spans two sets, one opened the cruise today and the other is the finale on Friday. He's playing the 12SS plus ??? on Friday.
And the 12ss plus is what will be at other shows then, I assume. Birthday bash and cruise has been amazing thus far.
-
All the Flying Colors guys out first
Infinite Fire
Place in Your World
Kayla
Mask Machine
Awesome start to the show! I cannot imagine "Infinite Fire" being an opener, but I'm sure it was pretty hype. Cool move picking 2 songs from each, especially "Kayla" and "Mask Machine", the two "leading singles" from those albums.
Everyone but Mike and Neal left the stage and they brought out Pete, announced Ted Leonard as Roine's replacement, and brought out Bill from the NMB as the utility fifth musician.
Into the Blue
We All Need Some Light Now
Stranger In Your Soul
Daniel Gildenlow came out to do vocals for the part he recorded on the album version of Into the Blue as well as contribute backing vocals for We All Need Some Light Now. Great set overall, seeing the end of Stranger In Your Soul live is always a borderline religious experience for me.
YES! I am so very glad that Daniel *finally* got to sing his studio part live. I'm sure he really wanted to be a part of the Kaleidoscope tour 3 years ago. I'm curious as to how Ted handled Roine's parts, though I am sure he's a very capable guitarist. I'm glad he joined them instead of Eric Gillette, who would have seemed like an obvious choice. Perhaps Eric will be a part of the 12SS set?! Also, I hope you mean "substitute" and not "replacement" for Roine, because the latter sounds like they have decided to carry on without him for the foreseeable future, which would be very sad. And having Bill as the all-around utility man makes a lot of sense. I can only imagine how well the vocal harmonies must have sounded with all five of their voices.
Question about "Stranger In Your Soul" - did they do the whole middle-section jam and traded instruments? Seems like every performance of that full song has featured that jam since the end of the BAF Tour (where it started, near the end of the tour).
-Marc.
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No worries, no indication that Ted (who did do a fairly good job) would be playing in place of Roine for anything beyond Tuesday's set. Sadly, no instrument switching jam in the middle of Stranger in Your Soul.
Especially after watching the NMB set yesterday, I would be shocked if Eric wasn't covering guitar for the 12SS set tomorrow night. He's definitely got the chops, it feels like there's some Petrucci in his lead playing, and he even plays what looks like a JP model guitar :lol Meanwhile Nick has money on Diego from Haken for keys.
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Any news about the MP band tonight? From now on, how much time until the show starts? Thanks!
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Any news about the MP band tonight? From now on, how much time until the show starts? Thanks!
No news, he's doing his best to keep everything a secret. Show is supposed to start four hours from now. I'll post some basic info about who else is playing with him during the intros if I can.
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Cool! Don't worry with us, enjoy the show!
From what I saw on MP forum, my bet is Daniel G on vocals, Eric Gillette and bass and keys from Haken. :tup
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Maybe a 2nd guitar from Haken too?
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My only prediction is that Mike will sit in with Steve Hackett on Supper's Ready and Firth of Fifth, his 2 favorite genesis songs and also 2 of his top 100 if I'm not mistaken.
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Nevermind. Steve Hackett already played. No MP. Unless he is doing another set, I gotta say I'm surprised.
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Has it started yet?
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Has it started yet?
Probably, but I'm sure Axeman is a few beers in and enjoying the climax of the cruise :yarr
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Starts in an hour. Essentially confirmed by gear on stage is Eric Gillette, Conner Green, and Diego.
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Has it started yet?
Probably, but I'm sure Axeman is a few beers in and enjoying the climax of the cruise :yarr
I've sadly been beer free for a couple hours, don't want to risk an uncooperative bladder partway through the set.
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Starts in an hour. Essentially confirmed by gear on stage is Eric Gillette, Conner Green, and Diego.
Squeeeeeellleeee!
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Just saw Tony Levin headed towards the performers' tent offstage. I can has Acid Rain?
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Starts in an hour. Essentially confirmed by gear on stage is Eric Gillette, Conner Green, and Diego.
Who are those people?
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Starts in an hour. Essentially confirmed by gear on stage is Eric Gillette, Conner Green, and Diego.
Who are those people?
:lol
Wondering the same thing!
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Diego and Connor from Haken. Eric Gillette is the guitarist for Neal Morse Band and is pretty much a Petrucci clone. No surprises on the lineup.
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I was kind of hoping MP's Shattered Fortress would've been someone I actually heard of. I'm sure they're great musicians and all, but..yawn.
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Yeah, not all that exciting. He kind of hyped it up more.
So who will the vocalist be? Probably the other guy from Hacken?
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MP's Haken Fortress!
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Say what you will about anyone else, there is NO better choice for guitar than Eric or Diego for keys.
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Nah, that's cool. I'm sure they're awesome. I've just never heard of them.
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I was kind of hoping MP's Shattered Fortress would've been someone I actually heard of. I'm sure they're great musicians and all, but..yawn.
I'll see your yawn and raise you a coma.
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Say what you will about anyone else, there is NO better choice for guitar than Eric or Diego for keys.
From what I heard Eric seems like a good choice for guitar. Just keep him away from the microphone though
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I was kind of hoping MP's Shattered Fortress would've been someone I actually heard of. I'm sure they're great musicians and all, but..yawn.
I'll see your yawn and raise you a coma.
:rollin
Awesome!
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Seriously, I do look forward to hearing MP do this.
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Still working on soundcheck. Should be game on soon though.
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I just hope MP doesn't plan to sing the entire suite. That would be terrible. :lol
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Bringing Tony Levin onstage now.
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Eric confirmed on guitar.
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Diego on keys.
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But who's on drums? :eek
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But who's on drums? :eek
Mangini
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Paradigm Shift, Acid Rain, Universal Mind. Mike now talking about the 12SS.
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Connor, Ross, Richard, and Charlie from Haken brought on now. Three guitar players it looks like.
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Gildenlow on vocals for a chunk of TDS. Starting TRoaE now.
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Who sang TGP?
Who sang the rest of TDS?
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Ted from Spock's Beard on vocals for Root.
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Who sang TGP?
Who sang the rest of TDS?
Ross form Haken.
Mike doing vox for Repentance.
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I have no idea who any of these people are (other than MP obviously). I can't wait to see some video of this.
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So TGP was basically Haken with Portnoy on drums, and so was TDS but with a bit of Gildenlow and now Repentance is the Portnoy show?
Eh. Looking forward to hearing the Gildenlow part. Not a Haken fan, so most of that does nothing for me. And Mike really should have considered my feelings first.
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Was anything played other than 12SS?
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Summary:
Portnoy, Tony Levin, Diego from Haken, and Eric from NMB did Paradigm Shift, Acid Rain, and Universal Mind.
Main band for the 12 Step Suite was Diego on keys, Eric on lead guitar, Connor from Haken on bass, and Rich and Charlie from Haken both on rhythm guitar (though they did jump in on a couple unisons). Ross was the primary vocalist, with Daniel Gildenlow DOI g the first 2/3 or so of This Dying Soul and Ted Leonard doing most of The Root of All Evil. Mike did most of Repentance. Ross, Daniel, and Ted all sang the very last vocal section of The Shattered Fortress. No additional DT material played.
Overall I can honestly say this was phenomenal. Considering the complexity of the material and the limited rehearsal time, they were fairly locked in. There was just one minor but noticeable slip up in Acid Rain that I could tell. Eric is an absolute monster, he nailed all the leads. I was a little worried about how Ross might hold up but he was mostly very good. Also, as Nick pointed out, he mostly struggled on parts that I wouldn't be surprised if James had trouble with.
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How did they do the transitions? Did they actually come up with cool transitions or did they just end one song and then start the next?
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Starts in an hour. Essentially confirmed by gear on stage is Eric Gillette, Conner Green, and Diego.
Who are those people?
:lol
Wondering the same thing!
Any time I see a TAC post in this subforum, I think of this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yFC0Il7-QK4
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TAC, BlobvanDam, you've never heard of Haken before this? Like, the biggest new prog band of the decade? You need to fix that as soon as possible. You're missing out!
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TAC, BlobvanDam, you've never heard of Haken before this? Like, the biggest new prog band of the decade? You need to fix that as soon as possible. You're missing out!
Or not. I know you were not talking to me, of course, but let me say that I simply cannot stand the singer.
B.Lee
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TAC, BlobvanDam, you've never heard of Haken before this? Like, the biggest new prog band of the decade? You need to fix that as soon as possible. You're missing out!
Or not. I know you were not talking to me, of course, but let me say that I simply cannot stand the singer.
B.Lee
It just surprised me that they've never heard of probably the most popular new prog band to start their career in this decade.
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TAC, BlobvanDam, you've never heard of Haken before this? Like, the biggest new prog band of the decade? You need to fix that as soon as possible. You're missing out!
I've heard of them, but I don't listen to them, or know any of the musicians in the band. I'm anti-prog. :biggrin:
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So it's basically Haken with Eric Gillette and MP?
That's actually slightly disappointing. I mean, I like Haken, but I wish MP would get his musicians out of different pools than just one.
That said, has it been confirmed that this is the band for the other dates in the summer?
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How did they do the transitions? Did they actually come up with cool transitions or did they just end one song and then start the next?
I wasn't there, I would assume that TGP > TDS went exactly as DT were doing it live.
TDS > Root should continue without a pause from the moment that TDS ends to the moment Root starts "for real", without the whole intro.
Root > Repentance could just flow normally, holding the last note of Root and then starting Repentance.
Repentance > Shattered I have no clue about, and it's what I was most interested to hear.
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I realize people are disappointed this was mostly Haken with Mike Portnoy on drums and an extra guitarist, but I'm sure those are the best guys Mike could put together.
Also, I'm very interested in Ted singing The Root of all evil, I can actually picture it perfectly. :tup
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TAC, BlobvanDam, you've never heard of Haken before this? Like, the biggest new prog band of the decade? You need to fix that as soon as possible. You're missing out!
Or not. I know you were not talking to me, of course, but let me say that I simply cannot stand the singer.
B.Lee
It just surprised me that they've never heard of probably the most popular new prog band to start their career in this decade.
Oh, OK, it was a misunderstanding on my part then. Yes, Haken are very popular in the prog metal scene (simply not my cup of tea).
B.Lee
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I have no idea who any of these people are (other than MP obviously). I can't wait to see some video of this.
This is how I feel.
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Some potato-quality footage of The Glass Prison
https://www.facebook.com/boscoaguilar/videos/1435776949790527/
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That looks like a lot of fun. Mike must have had the time of his life playing these tunes. I was very uninterested in all of this, but now I'm looking forward to some more footage.
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That TGP clip sounds great! Everything sounds awesome to me except the Portnoy singing Repentance part. I'm sure he probably did a good job, but I've never been a fan of his vocals so I would've liked if Daniel Gildenlow or Ted stepped up to sing that; but oh well. It's kinda nice he gets a lead moment in the performance of his suite.
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Some potato-quality footage of The Glass Prison
https://www.facebook.com/boscoaguilar/videos/1435776949790527/
I hope some more footage of whole songs appears, but that sounded excellent from what I could hear. Better than I was expecting under the circumstances. That's probably the benefit of sticking mostly to one band to cover it.
-
Those are all incredible musicians and absolutely the right collaboration choices, especially Eric Gillette. Hope that MP had a blast.
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TAC, BlobvanDam, you've never heard of Haken before this? Like, the biggest new prog band of the decade? You need to fix that as soon as possible. You're missing out!
Obviously I've heard of Haken. I listened to the first album, which I found a bit loopy. I would have no idea who any of the band members are.
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I'm glad he stuck with one core band with guest vocalists. One of my worries when this was announced that it would sound disjointed with various musicians coming on stage and leaving throughout the piece. Part of appeal of hearing the suite played live is seeing the 5 tunes unified as one piece.
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If I could get the greatest band in progressive rock today to play my songs, I would.
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Of course. For Haken it's a no-brainer as well. Getting asked ny Mike freaking Portnoy to play his songs. I would do it in a heartbeat. From the outsider's perspective though, I think it's a little bit lame that it's essentially Haken covering DT songs with a different drummer (poor Ray!). Which makes me wonder why Eric Gillette is a part of it. Maybe on further editions he's not using all of Haken, but since they were all on the boat anyways, they all joined.
In hindsight, this gives the 'Haken joins MP dfor a poolparty' Facebook posts infinitely more context. I'm sure they decided then and there that this would happen. Anyway, I'll be at either Be Prog! My Friend or Night of the Prog, so I'll catch it there.
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TAC, BlobvanDam, you've never heard of Haken before this? Like, the biggest new prog band of the decade? You need to fix that as soon as possible. You're missing out!
Obviously I've heard of Haken. I listened to the first album, which I found a bit loopy. I would have no idea who any of the band members are.
I would highly recommend checking out any of their last three releases (Affinity, The Mountain, or the Restorations EP). I haven't listened to the first album yet, but their recent output is really great.
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https://www.facebook.com/boscoaguilar/videos/1435764523125103/
Parts of Paradigm Shift and Acid Rain^^ :yarr
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I assume Eric Gillette was there because he plays so much like JP. Did he take most of the leads?
-
No youtube vids yet?.. :-\
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I was kind of hoping MP's Shattered Fortress would've been someone I actually heard of.
Most of the musicians YOU have heard of are probably too old to play this material.
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I was kind of hoping MP's Shattered Fortress would've been someone I actually heard of.
Most of the musicians YOU have heard of are probably too old to play this material.
Dead even! :biggrin:
B.Lee
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Not surprised to see that Gillette and Haken both were used a lot. Gillette's style was nearly patterned after JP's, and out of all of the DT clone bands of the last 20+ years, Haken is easily the best one. Good choices (instrumentally, since I can't imagine Haken's singer sounding good singing DT material).
-
No youtube vids yet?.. :-\
This was uploaded just minutes ago!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4sgzUl11LFQ
-Marc.
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No youtube vids yet?.. :-\
Edit: f'in ninja'd
Ross kills it man.
-
Paradigm Shift - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wrnr-lt7plI#t=5.122524
-Marc.
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No youtube vids yet?.. :-\
This was uploaded just minutes ago!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4sgzUl11LFQ
-Marc.
Thanks!.. That was awesome.. :o
-
Music sounds good in Glass Prison, but man, those vocals... :|
-
He's not bad but he definitely doesn't have a metal voice, or even a rock voice. Too nice, no grit, no dirt.
-
I hope there's some vids of Gildenlow singing, that's the one thing I really want to hear.
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I hope there's some vids of Gildenlow singing, that's the one thing I really want to hear.
I was hoping for Daniel G to sing all the suite. One of my favourites singers, no dout.
-
Kwyjibo, I actually think Kev was talking about MP's vocals. They were LSFNY-ish.
-
No youtube vids yet?.. :-\
This was uploaded just minutes ago!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4sgzUl11LFQ
-Marc.
Wow. There's 7 people on stage and they all barely move. Hell, Ross is the only one who walks around, but MP is actually showing the most energy. What's up with prog bands having terrible stage performances? :lol
-
No youtube vids yet?.. :-\
This was uploaded just minutes ago!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4sgzUl11LFQ
-Marc.
Wow. There's 7 people on stage and they all barely move. Hell, Ross is the only one who walks around, but MP is actually showing the most energy. What's up with prog bands having terrible stage performances? :lol
I'm sure that has everything to do with covering difficult music versus playing their own music that they've played hundreds of times.
-
That and the motion of the ship.
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Kwyjibo, I actually think Kev was talking about MP's vocals. They were LSFNY-ish.
No, I was talking about the guy from Haken. They should have him used on the softer parts of the suite; he doesn't have the power or grit to pull off The Glass Prison, like Kwyjibo said.
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I was kind of hoping MP's Shattered Fortress would've been someone I actually heard of.
Most of the musicians YOU have heard of are probably too old to play this material.
(https://spi3uk.itvnet.lv/upload2/articles/67/674420/images/_origin_Vecie-negantnieki-8.jpg)
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Not HUGE on Ross Jennings, but he's easily a better singer than James LaBrie these days, all things being equal.
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Not HUGE on Ross Jennings, but he's easily a better singer than James LaBrie these days, all things being equal.
No way. JLB has many struggles live, but he still has much more diversity, range and power in his voice than Jennings does. No, JLB cannot do what he did when he was 29, but for a 53-year old man, who has belted it out as much over the years as he has on DT's countless tour dates, his voice has held up pretty well.
-
Is Ross Jennings the Haken singer?
-
Is Ross Jennings the Haken singer?
Yes. As much as I like some of their material, none of their stuff ever grabs me right away, because his vocals are always a hill to climb for me. I tolerate them more than I like them.
-
His vocals are much better over the last 2 albums and live he's a showman.
-
Just listened to the first two tracks off the Restoration EP. Yeah, I'm gonna pass.
-
3 guitar players?
and I agree, the singer's voice isn't really suited for the material. The music itself sounds decent enough though
I want to hear Daniel Gildenlöw soooo bad
-
I was sure from day 1 that Mike would ask Eric and Diego to join him for these songs, but bringing the complete lineup from Haken (minus the drummer, of course) is a bit too much. Haken is one of my favorite bands after DT, but MP marketed his own band playing the TSS, not MP feat Haken & Eric Gillette, which is what ended up happening.
Still, the videos look like the performance was really cool, and those LTE classics with Tony... epic. Hope someone uploads more videos of th DT songs soon.
-
Why 3 guitarists? That seems......excessive for covering a one guitar player band. Also seems to increase the chances of things going wrong.
-
I can't believe you guys are actually complaining about those little things.. He played the entire suite, plus three LTE themes!.. Who cares with who he played it?... I'm glad he acomplished this wish he had since he started writing the lyrics for these songs back in 2001..
I won't say NE... even when I'm already saying it.. :azn:
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Why 3 guitarists? That seems......excessive for covering a one guitar player band. Also seems to increase the chances of things going wrong.
I mean.....this does nothing but bolster Petrucci's lore. It takes (3) guitarists to cover his guitar playing, and even then it's still just a really good cover band version of JP's sound.
I thought the vids sounded good, all those guys are truly talented and unreal players. But it felt 'off' to me. Not the playing per say but the atmosphere surrounding it. Just odd hearing/seeing MP perform those DT and LTE songs without the real line up.
-
Why 3 guitarists? That seems......excessive for covering a one guitar player band. Also seems to increase the chances of things going wrong.
I mean.....this does nothing but bolster Petrucci's lore. It takes (3) guitarists to cover his guitar playing, and even then it's still just a really good cover band version of JP's sound.
I mean, that sounds cool, but it doesn't really take 3 guitarists. One of those guys who could done it just fine. I even get having two if you want the extra rhythm and trading off solos..........but three?
-
The clip posted was amazing. I'm honestly shocked at the reaction.
Once a decade, I have one band that completely turns my head around and makes everything I ever loved about music seem new and fresh. A band will come along and make me feel like a 12 year old "fanboy" all over again.
In the 80's it was Rush
In the 90's it was Dream Theater
In the 00's it was Porcupine Tree
But my band of the 10's is absolutely Haken
Haken is the most amazing, top to bottom talented, and original band in all of progressive rock today. I am nearly 50, and I feel like a little kid in a candy story every time I hear anything they play. Hearing them play the 12SS with my all time favorite drummer is just a bonus. I just feel sad that I will never be able to see it or hear it in anything more than YT quality. This is even better than when MP did Sigmund and the Sea Monsters. (though not by much) But it's kinda like that. Ross is the Jon Anderson of his time, and he's even better....because he actually is capable of (and has done) DEATH GROWLS in Haken's stuff. (he does the death metal stuff in The Architect when live....and I'm pretty sure he did the death metal vocals on the original demo and on Aquarius) So I don't know how much more diverse or "metal" you can get.
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I agree the singer wasn't the most suited, although he wasn't bad either. It overall sounded great though.
Paradigm Shift I didn't think worked nearly as well. They're all great musicians, but it just didn't have that spontaneous energy without JP and especially JR. It fell a bit flat for me.
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I hope there's some vids of Gildenlow singing, that's the one thing I really want to hear.
I was hoping for Daniel G to sing all the suite. One of my favourites singers, no dout.
I've lost interest in PoS over the years, but yeah, Daniel would've been the one to pull this off. A bit surprised and bummed he wasn't used for the whole set. Hopefully MP will use him for the rest of the shows he's doing with TSF because Ross ain't cutting it from that clip of TGP.
bringing the complete lineup from Haken (minus the drummer, of course) is a bit too much. Haken is one of my favorite bands after DT, but MP marketed his own band playing the TSS, not MP feat Haken & Eric Gillette, which is what ended up happening.
Agreed. No problem with picking the bassist and keyboardist, but when you've got Eric there to do the guitar parts, that's enough right there. Or as someone said, having one of the other guitarists from Haken could be used, but both? Seems unnecessary. Had he used Daniel for the whole thing, I'd bet Daniel could've been the rhythm guitarist for the whole set so that there'd be no need for either of the Haken guitarists.
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Ross is the Jon Anderson of his time...
As someone who thinks the vocals are the weakest link (GOODBYE!) of Yes, this made me chortle.
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I think the material isn't really suited to Ross, but I think he did a great job with it, and generally speaking I think he's an absolutely fantastic singer. Honestly, I love Haken's music, but Ross is a huge part of why I'm a fan.
I don't think his death growls are very good, though.
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Not HUGE on Ross Jennings, but he's easily a better singer than James LaBrie these days, all things being equal.
No way. JLB has many struggles live, but he still has much more diversity, range and power in his voice than Jennings does. No, JLB cannot do what he did when he was 29, but for a 53-year old man, who has belted it out as much over the years as he has on DT's countless tour dates, his voice has held up pretty well.
Yup, pretty much. I've got no complaints about James except time is (finally) catching up to him. He's even handling that pretty damn well.
That said, this Ross guy clearly is no JLB but I don't think he is *that* bad. I mean, I don't know who else MP could possibly get. James just has too unique of a voice to replicate. I guess all you can hope for is to do justice in replicating the melodies. Sounds like he did that but just didn't have enough emotion and grit.
From what little I've heard of Haken and the NMB, this Ross guy sounds like a more skilled and rounded (vocally) Eric Gillette whose vocals do absolutely nothing for me.
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Obviously I'm only judging from the 5 minute video of Glass Prison, but it's not bad. I think the problem is that it was the minimum. It was fine, but it could have been so much more. Portnoy really stressed that this was going to be a huge thing, but then it turned out to be Haken with MP, which was just a bit of a let down, especially for those of us that aren't huge Haken fans. Like I said, wasn't bad at all, just could have been so much more. Maybe the next performance will be a different line up.
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Seems like Haken is everywhere in this thread. I've never heard them at all. Where to start?
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Seems like Haken is everywhere in this thread. I've never heard them at all. Where to start?
The Mountain -> Aquarius -> Affinity -> Visions -> Restoration
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Ross is obviously no JLB, but he doesn't need to be. I said before that I would find it more interesting if they shake things up a bit and not try to emulate the studio versions note for note and sound for sound. From the short clip I got the impression that they tried just that and then Ross falls short.
I got into Haken last year but the biggest hurdle for me are the vocals. They just lack something for this kind of music, the singer would be more suited for soft piano pop ballads. And yes he growls, but he's not good at it either. And the comparison with Jon Anderson doesn't fit either. Jon has a completely different voice, and Haken don't really make music in the vein of Yes.
This is all highly subjective I know and I'm still curious how Gildenlöw or Leonard sound and I still hope we get a decent recording of this someday.
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Ross looks like JLB and Russell Allen combined when it comes to his stage presence. His vocals don't sound that amazing on the clip I saw (and neither did Ted's performance of TROAE), but maybe the clips don't do them justice.
When it comes to Ross's voice in general, he's pretty solid and can sound amazingly well on the studio albums, especially on the softer, more emotional bits.
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Haken are also playing progpower this year so I'd imagine they will be performing with MP there too. Wonder if the intro set changes personal and songs.
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What a bunch of whiners. :P
Has MP done it with others musicians there would be complain too.
Never enough
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Ross is the Jon Anderson of his time...
As someone who thinks the vocals are the weakest link (GOODBYE!) of Yes, this made me chortle.
Well, it was Saturday night, so I am going to assume jammindude had been drinking heavily, which would be ironic given the suite of songs we are talking about. :P
I got into Haken last year but the biggest hurdle for me are the vocals. They just lack something for this kind of music, the singer would be more suited for soft piano pop ballads. And yes he growls, but he's not good at it either. And the comparison with Jon Anderson doesn't fit either. Jon has a completely different voice, and Haken don't really make music in the vein of Yes.
Agreed. Jon Anderson wouldn't sound good trying to sing something like The Glass Prison either. Having said that, Anderson's angelic voice is still one of the most unique in the history of rock, and he is a prog rock legend for a reason. :hefdaddy :hefdaddy
Back to Haken's singer, not to beat a dead horse, but as much as I like their last two albums and a few songs from the first couple, I don't listen to that them much, mainly because of his voice. If they had a singer I liked a lot, I would probably listen to them a ton.
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TDS
https://www.facebook.com/groups/nealmorseforum/permalink/380144832365639/
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Portnoy + Haken. Portnoy and his boys.
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TDS
https://www.facebook.com/groups/nealmorseforum/permalink/380144832365639/
Hmm, guess there's no transition between TDS and TROAE. I guess after 25 minutes of insanity, they would want a breath to take!
-Marc.
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I couldn't imagine Haken's songs being sung by anyone other than Jennings.
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Hmmmm, not a fan of the vocals on TDS. I actually like that Ross guy more on TGP than I do this Daniel guy on TDS.
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No problem with picking the bassist and keyboardist, but when you've got Eric there to do the guitar parts, that's enough right there. Or as someone said, having one of the other guitarists from Haken could be used, but both? Seems unnecessary. Had he used Daniel for the whole thing, I'd bet Daniel could've been the rhythm guitarist for the whole set so that there'd be no need for either of the Haken guitarists.
But you're seeing it in a mechanical and cold way, not taking into account that MP didn't selected random musicians just for the sake of it.. They are all friends, and it's obvious that, off the stage, they were going to be hanging out and spending lot of time together, so when it came to the decision, maybe he couldn't not to invite as many Haken's members as he wanted (obviously minus the drummer).. Or probably he thought it'd be cool to have at least two guitars on stage to do more justice to the metal side of the songs, which is way present throughout the whole suite, with the exception of Repentance.. But if that was what happenned, then he couldn't obviously decided between Richard and Charlie, and invited both instead..
Then again, that's how it turned out, and I don't get why anyone would be upset for the choices he made; it was his birthday after all ;).. Of course we can have opinions; I for one expected to see Richard playing guitar and keys as he does in Haken, but it just didn't happen, and it's not a big deal either..
Seems like Haken is everywhere in this thread. I've never heard them at all. Where to start?
The Mountain -> Aquarius -> Affinity -> Visions -> Restoration
If you want a second (although only slightly different) opinion: Affinity -> The Mountain -> Aquarius -> Visions -> Restoration
TDS
https://www.facebook.com/groups/nealmorseforum/permalink/380144832365639/
Thanks, I was waiting for this!... Hello TDS, so glad to see you my friend, it's been a while!!!.... :metal
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It's really hard to tell how a singer actually sounds with these types of recordings, but I thought Daniel sounded good from what I could hear.
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The Mountain > Visions > Affinity > Aquarius > Restoration
Restoration is only last because it's an EP, and picking ANY of these album to go last is like picking a least favorite child.....it hurts when you force me to pick.
This is one of the bands I can count on one hand where I can honestly say that they don't just have one masterpiece....everything they do is a masterpiece. 4 albums, an EP, and a demo, and I haven't heard a single note that I wasn't completely in love with. Yes, even the caliope moments on Aquarius and the demo. :metal
EDIT: It was Saturday night....I guess that makes it alright.
But seriously. I had had one black russian, and I feel no differently now that it's Sunday morning. So there. :angel:
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TDS
https://www.facebook.com/groups/nealmorseforum/permalink/380144832365639/
OMG Gildenlöw :heart
wait, he's actually struggling with a lot of notes,. what's going on?
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TDS
https://www.facebook.com/groups/nealmorseforum/permalink/380144832365639/
Hmm, guess there's no transition between TDS and TROAE. I guess after 25 minutes of insanity, they would want a breath to take!
Probably it was like the moments of break between The Dance of Eternity and One Last Time live, but I thought the point was to have a giant song all going on continously... there's a moment before the last part of the solo, in the video it's at the 10:45 mark, that there's a little pause, they could have stopped there, took a breath (like it happens during Metropolis when they black out the stage) and then go on from there.
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TDS
https://www.facebook.com/groups/nealmorseforum/permalink/380144832365639/
Hmm, guess there's no transition between TDS and TROAE. I guess after 25 minutes of insanity, they would want a breath to take!
Probably it was like the moments of break between The Dance of Eternity and One Last Time live, but I thought the point was to have a giant song all going on continously... there's a moment before the last part of the solo, in the video it's at the 10:45 mark, that there's a little pause, they could have stopped there, took a breath (like it happens during Metropolis when they black out the stage) and then go on from there.
Taking a breath may have been secondary....but I remember them saying that in that case, it was planned because they knew they were going to need some sort of stoppage for the CD release. And you can see from LSFNY, that is exactly where the CD1 stops and CD2 begins.
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I'd imagine it's pretty hard to just go from TDS to TROAE since they're in different tunings.
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Ya.....Daniel was really struggling that night. I know he's a MUCH better singer than that normally. Too bad he was having an off night. Hope he's OK.
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I'd imagine it's pretty hard to just go from TDS to TROAE since they're in different tunings.
Question from a non musician... would it be hard to stop at the mark I said before (the little pause before rushing into the final fast section of the solo) and then go on from there, with the final part of TDS tuned the same way as Root? when you hear them back to back together they flow very well into one another (the end of This Dying Soul into the "real" beginning of Root, skipping the whole intro) and it's a pity to not actually hear it live...
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Ya.....Daniel was really struggling that night. I know he's a MUCH better singer than that normally. Too bad he was having an off night. Hope he's OK.
Daniel is my favorite singer, and if you told me he recorded an album of Chipmunk songs, I'd buy it ASAP. That said, this was not the song for him to sing. Just felt like an odd choice. His voice doesn't really compliment those vocal parts at all.
I think that's the major problem with the vocalists for this thing. They're good singers, but their voices just seem like odd choices for this. You need a singer with a lot of oomph, range and low range power that can go high. Basically Russell Allen would have been an ideal choice.
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Are all these opinions about the vocalists just based on these poor quality youtube/facebook bootleg vids, or has anyone who was on the cruise weighed in?
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The negative opinions are definitely based on nothing but the vids.. The ones that actually went there are only amazed, as usually happens with this kind of DT or prog events..
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I'll grant you that poor quality vids aren't always a great way to make a judgement, but I really can't agree with this mentality that seeing it in person gives you an objective view on what happened, and a video can never be seen as worth judging. People who see things in person almost always say it's amazing, perfect or sublime and then when they rewatch it (even in amazing quality) they realize all the stuff they just didn't notice because of the energy at the time. Meanwhile, a bad video is only worth ignoring if it's REALLY bad quality. None of the videos posted here are such bad quality that we can't possibly make a judgment from them. Might that judgment change if a high quality video is released? Of course! But we lack that. And short of not having any discussion whatsoever, this is the best we can do.
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The negative opinions are definitely based on nothing but the vids.. The ones that actually went there are only amazed, as usually happens with this kind of DT or prog events..
True. And it is as hard to form an opinion from a YT vid as it is when attending a show, because I know that, personnally, I have a tendency to see everything in pink when at a concert.
B.Lee
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Well at least Ted Leonard is being open and said he was having a rough night that night
(https://i1377.photobucket.com/albums/ah58/jorge_pozo1/982E1ED1-7005-49A9-BA33-594780488463_zpsftakmmnc.png) (https://s1377.photobucket.com/user/jorge_pozo1/media/982E1ED1-7005-49A9-BA33-594780488463_zpsftakmmnc.png.html)
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Not HUGE on Ross Jennings, but he's easily a better singer than James LaBrie these days, all things being equal.
No, simply no. Jenning's voice is thin as compared to JLB. Not in the same league for me. Now, give me Tommy Karevik and I say OK.
B.Lee
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The guy from Haken is just terrible at emoting and is the main reason why I can't listen to them.
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If anything, it's the people that attended the show that are biased. We may not have the perfect audio quality, but it's not like we can't hear the vocals. The ones that laid down a fair amount of money to see some of their favourite musicians ever play some of their favourite songs will obviously most likely have enjoyed it despite some (minor) issues.
Not HUGE on Ross Jennings, but he's easily a better singer than James LaBrie these days, all things being equal.
No, simply no. Jenning's voice is thin as compared to JLB. Not in the same league for me. Now, give me Tommy Karevik and I say OK.
B.Lee
Disagree that JLB is the better singer. I like JLB better than Ross, for sure, but I don't think he is nearly as good these days. But yeah, Karevik blows both of them out of the water, would have been really cool to see him.
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But seriously. I had had one black russian...
I knew it... :biggrin:
I'll grant you that poor quality vids aren't always a great way to make a judgement, but I really can't agree with this mentality that seeing it in person gives you an objective view on what happened, and a video can never be seen as worth judging. People who see things in person almost always say it's amazing, perfect or sublime and then when they rewatch it (even in amazing quality) they realize all the stuff they just didn't notice because of the energy at the time. Meanwhile, a bad video is only worth ignoring if it's REALLY bad quality. None of the videos posted here are such bad quality that we can't possibly make a judgment from them. Might that judgment change if a high quality video is released? Of course! But we lack that. And short of not having any discussion whatsoever, this is the best we can do.
Totally agree. It's always easy to overlook or not care about flaws when caught up in the euphoria of the live show. Heck, Neal Morse completely butchered his own guitar solo in Draw the Line when I saw them 2 1/2 weeks ago, but I was having so much fun, I couldn't have cared less.
The guy from Haken is just terrible at emoting and is the main reason why I can't listen to them.
I think he does a good job on the softer stuff. For example, he sounds great in the mellow section of Falling Back to Earth. Also, Because It's There is right in his wheelhouse. And his "ahhhh"s during the climax of the instrumental section in Celestial Elixir are great.
On the flip side, there are just far too many moments where his voice falls completely flat for me. For example, the last two minutes of Crystallised should have been totally awesome, but he simply doesn't enough power and strength in his voice to belt it out and give that section the energy it needed for the climax to be a satisfying ending after that kind of build-up, IMO. That song rates high on my list of biggest teases ever, largely because that final section is so unsatisfying vocally.
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I'll grant you that poor quality vids aren't always a great way to make a judgement, but I really can't agree with this mentality that seeing it in person gives you an objective view on what happened, and a video can never be seen as worth judging. People who see things in person almost always say it's amazing, perfect or sublime and then when they rewatch it (even in amazing quality) they realize all the stuff they just didn't notice because of the energy at the time. Meanwhile, a bad video is only worth ignoring if it's REALLY bad quality. None of the videos posted here are such bad quality that we can't possibly make a judgment from them. Might that judgment change if a high quality video is released? Of course! But we lack that. And short of not having any discussion whatsoever, this is the best we can do.
Totally agree. It's always easy to overlook or not care about flaws when caught up in the euphoria of the live show. Heck, Neal Morse completely butchered his own guitar solo in Draw the Line when I saw them 2 1/2 weeks ago, but I was having so much fun, I couldn't have cared less.
I think another great example of this is Metallica's show in Demark that Het tried to stop. If you see the vids, he literally sounds like a barking dog. He sounded so bad that he told the audience they deserve better, but they loved it so much they told him to keep going, and I bet if he hadn't said anything, a lot of those people would have left the show thinking he sounded great.
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Man, if I were at home and not still on vacation it would take up all my time responding to some of the silliness in this thread. My ONLY complaints in an otherwise AMAZING set were that I wish they would have only used two guitarists at a time, and I wish Daniel didn't spend half of his song looking down at lyrics. Performance wise though everyone nailed it.
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he literally sounds like a barking dog.
Is that not the norm for Metallica? (not in a bad way)
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Man, the one time I saw Metallica ('97 or '98), the concert the was so loud that he could have barked like a dog the entire show, and no one would have been the wiser. :lol :lol
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he literally sounds like a barking dog.
Is that not the norm for Metallica? (not in a bad way)
........no.
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Meanwhile, a bad video is only worth ignoring if it's REALLY bad quality. None of the videos posted here are such bad quality that we can't possibly make a judgment from them.
Disagree really quite strongly. Very loud concerts almost always create a lot of distortion on microphones which aren't designed for those sorts of volumes, like on phone cameras. And one of the ways that can be most keenly noticed is in vocal pitch/volume. This happens again and again and again and yet people for some reason use it as evidence of bad live vocals for basically every singer in the world.
With these ones, the TGP vid is the least bad of the bunch but still somewhat distorted, but the TDS and TROAE ones are awful.
And the argument that "we don't have anything better so we'll just make judgements based on these" is very silly.
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Answer to an much earlier question, Eric handled pretty much all of the solos, and was essentially the lead guitarist of the bunch.
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What we have is fine. We can clearly tell the pitch/tone of voice in the video. The distortion is not a problem in these videos (can't speak for the TROAE one, since I haven't seen it), but all of the comments about the Haken guy are coming from a fine quality video. Not anything below professional is worth disregarding.
And the argument isn't silly at all BECAUSE what we have is fine. If we had nothing but truly terrible quality vids, you'd be right. But my point was that what we have is enough and saying "no judgments without a professionally filmed recording" is silly.
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Answer to an much earlier question, Eric handled pretty much all of the solos, and was essentially the lead guitarist of the bunch.
From the TDS video posted it looks like the three of them took it in turns for the unison at the end.
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What we have is fine. We can clearly tell the pitch/tone of voice in the video. The distortion is not a problem in these videos (can't speak for the TROAE one, since I haven't seen it), but all of the comments about the Haken guy are coming from a fine quality video. Not anything below professional is worth disregarding.
And the argument isn't silly at all BECAUSE what we have is fine. If we had nothing but truly terrible quality vids, you'd be right. But my point was that what we have is enough and saying "no judgments without a professionally filmed recording" is silly.
Agreed, especially since professional recordings are almost always touched up, fixed, etc.
But I will cut ariich some slack here, since I think the Haken singer is his cousin or something. I'd be sticking up for a family member, too. :coolio
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But I will cut ariich some slack here, since I think the Haken singer is his cousin or something. I'd be sticking up for a family member, too. :coolio
:lol Nah I don't really know Ross that well. And as I said the TGP recording is the least bad one of the three.
And I'm not talking about touched-up professional recordings, I'm just talking about good quality mics that don't distort. This has bugged me for ages - we get it with JLB all the time.
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Totally get that. I still don't think the videos for TGP were at that level. I think the quality wasn't great, but it was good enough to tell what was happening accurately.
I can't speak for anyone else, but I also didn't say the dude sounded bad by any means, just that he wasn't a great choice for the songs.
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No again the TGP vid wasn't too terrible, though it was still distorting here and there. The TDS vid was shoddy though and you did also comment on DG's singing. :P
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Just to be clear I understand you correctly: a bad distorted recording just doesn't sound bad and distorted. It alters vocal pitch also? Serious question because I never heard of it before.
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There are TRoAE vids too?.. I couldn't find them anywhere...
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I wrote all five of these songs with the intention of them being performed from start to finish
Portnoy's talking about the lyrics right? Might be misleading for people who don't know how the band wrote music when Portnoy was a member.
https://loudwire.com/mike-portnoy-shattered-fortress-not-new-band-project-is-event/?trackback=tsmclip
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A little bummed that it was just MP + Haken + Eric Gilette and a few singers but would still have loved to see it.
Don't feel like travelling too long for this though.
Soo sad that this was never done with MP in DT... oh well I guess a cover version of it is better than none at all.
But from what I understand this will never be officially released so I will never get to see or hear it properly.
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A little bummed that it was just MP + Haken + Eric Gilette and a few singers but would still have loved to see it.
Don't feel like travelling too long for this though.
Soo sad that this was never done with MP in DT... oh well I guess a cover version of it is better than none at all.
But from what I understand this will never be officially released so I will never get to see or hear it properly.
Would Portnoy be able to release it as an unofficial bootleg or was that only permissible while he was in Dream Theater?
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Answer to an much earlier question, Eric handled pretty much all of the solos, and was essentially the lead guitarist of the bunch.
From the TDS video posted it looks like the three of them took it in turns for the unison at the end.
Yeah, Eric handled all the solos but they traded off on the TDS unison (which seems a bit cruel :lol) and there were a couple other spots where I think it would normally be a guitar + keyboard unison but they would have either Rich or Charlie playing the unison along with Eric and Diego.
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A little bummed that it was just MP + Haken + Eric Gilette and a few singers but would still have loved to see it.
Don't feel like travelling too long for this though.
Soo sad that this was never done with MP in DT... oh well I guess a cover version of it is better than none at all.
But from what I understand this will never be officially released so I will never get to see or hear it properly.
Would Portnoy be able to release it as an unofficial bootleg or was that only permissible while he was in Dream Theater?
He'd need their publisher's permission
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A little bummed that it was just MP + Haken + Eric Gilette and a few singers but would still have loved to see it.
Don't feel like travelling too long for this though.
Soo sad that this was never done with MP in DT... oh well I guess a cover version of it is better than none at all.
But from what I understand this will never be officially released so I will never get to see or hear it properly.
Would Portnoy be able to release it as an unofficial bootleg or was that only permissible while he was in Dream Theater?
He'd need their publisher's permission
There's an interview out there where MP said he wouldn't record/release anything. That it's too big a legal nightmare.
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That seems exaggerated. Maybe someone who understands the copyright laws better can step in, but how is it that different from DT releasing a covers album? Or even PSMS doing a DVD that includes DT songs. Is it just that he doesn't want DT to earn any royalties?
I'd imagine it's pretty hard to just go from TDS to TROAE since they're in different tunings.
It really isn't that big of a deal though, TROAE can easily be played on a 7 string.
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Just to be clear I understand you correctly: a bad distorted recording just doesn't sound bad and distorted. It alters vocal pitch also? Serious question because I never heard of it before.
Not only vocals (happens quite noticeably with guitar sometimes too), but yeah distortion can affect pitch (and also volume, obviously, as the different sounds compete for limited audio space).
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TDS
https://www.facebook.com/groups/nealmorseforum/permalink/380144832365639/
WOW!! AWESOME!!!!
WTF? Did the singer go offstage halfway through and grow a beard? :lol
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So basically it was Haken covering DT with MP on Drums and Eric Giellete as lead.
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Musically, both TDS and TROAE were quite good.
TDS felt like it was going to fall apart at a few points with some misunderstandings of the time sig changes, but overall it was impressive that they managed such a full on song as well as they did. The singer was definitely the weak link with a lot of flat notes.
TROAE held together better, and the vocalist did an OK job considering.
I'm not disappointed by the fact this was basically Haken + MP. I don't believe they could have managed these songs as well as they did with a collection of unrelated musicians, as amazing as they may have been individually.
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Where's the TROAE vid?
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Where's the TROAE vid?
https://www.facebook.com/groups/dreamtheaterforums.org/permalink/1209999159112951/
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Hard to tell in the video, but are all of the guitarists playing Petrucci guitars?
Also this vocalist seems to fit the music a lot better than Daniel and the Haken dude. (see that Ariich? I said something positive)
Also, I just realized that of the singers that did sing, Daniel might have sounded really good on Repentance.
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Hard to tell in the video, but are all of the guitarists playing Petrucci guitars?
Yeah, I believe so. From what I saw of the NMB sets on the cruise I think Eric normally plays one of the JP 7 string models, but Rich and Charlie definitely don't play those normally. I'm just assuming it's a tone thing, but I did think it was a little odd.
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I don't know about Charlie but I remember Rich was playing JP guitars up until the Mountain era. I'm guessing for the Haken guys it was more out of homage than anything else.
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Haken guys used JP models for their 7-string stuff before they switched to full Strandberg 8-string mode.
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TDS felt like it was going to fall apart at a few points with some misunderstandings of the time sig changes,
I did not notice this at all. I thought they pulled it off one hundred percent instrumentally.
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TDS felt like it was going to fall apart at a few points with some misunderstandings of the time sig changes,
I did not notice this at all. I thought they pulled it off one hundred percent instrumentally.
Yeah, I think Blob was about to fall apart at a few points. :P
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TDS felt like it was going to fall apart at a few points with some misunderstandings of the time sig changes,
I did not notice this at all. I thought they pulled it off one hundred percent instrumentally.
Right before "All your sins will only..." MP made a little mistake with the time signature, although they quickly fixed it.... but apart from that, I didn't notice anything else either..
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TDS felt like it was going to fall apart at a few points with some misunderstandings of the time sig changes,
I did not notice this at all. I thought they pulled it off one hundred percent instrumentally.
Go back and listen to the "Now that you can see all you have done" section. They manage to recover before trainwrecking it, but things get sketchy for a moment there.
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This dying soul is one of my favorite songs ever written and Daniel is a god, so I am a happy camper :smiley:
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Overall I think this is a totally fine rendition. The only thing I would say is that I always assumed this was going to be an "ultimate edition", sort of a director's cut that truly reflects MP's intent about the piece. That, I would say, it is not. I think the existing DT recordings remain as the de facto standard renditions.
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All things being equal, I'd take prime LaBrie over prime Jennings. But yeah, I'd take modern day Jennings over modern day LaBrie easily. I guess different strokes, but for me I don't even have to think that hard about it.
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Would of loved for Daniel to sing the whole thing. But it seems that Daniel's performance was kind of a last minute decision maybe? Or maybe he didn't prepare well enough? Seems like in that video he is reading the lyrics very frequently.
Ross did a good job. I liked his performance.
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What I really liked about Daniel was when he actually sang the way he sings in PoS.. The presence of his voice -and even changing the melody a little- in the "this dying soooooul" parts in the chorus, and his rap thing in "smoking the residue" or "a hopeless affliction"..
You don't hear every day a guy like this, along with one of your favorite bands and along with your favorite drummer playing one of your favorites songs from your favorite band... Do I need to mention how glad I am?...
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I'm hoping some of the Gildenlow stuff will show up eventually.
I don't think the Haken guy sounds bad. It should be taken into account that he doesn't have nearly as much experience singing this stuff as LaBrie. LaBrie's been singing this stuff live for years. IMHO LaBrie's always sounded awkward when singing in an aggressive manner.
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I don't think the Haken guy sounds bad. It should be taken into account that he doesn't have nearly as much experience singing this stuff as LaBrie. LaBrie's been singing this stuff live for years. IMHO LaBrie's always sounded awkward when singing in an aggressive manner.
In my opinion, JLB's aggressive singing usually sounds good in the studio, but I agree that it's not always great, and does sometimes sound awkward, live.
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From the videos, it was an very fun show. Eric Gillette really does a good JP impression. The Haken guys are all pretty good. Vocal-wise i think the best one was Ted, but with these videos it's hard to tell. And i'm sure MP thought i would be uncool just to get one of the guitar players from Haken so he asked them both.
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Watching a video of Yes' set from the cruise, at Wakeman (I think?) has (and this is what I count), at least 10 keyboards, some other midi controller, pedals, 3 laptops, and an FX rack.
Someone's got to let that guy know... all that technology and he's probably just scratching the surface of all of it, not realizing the days of needed a different piece of gear for each sound are over. I mean... Neal Morse was on the boat too, right?
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Just watched TGP, pretty solid. No issues with Ross from me, I feel he is very similar to JLB in the fact that his vocals seem to be discussed a lot in the band filled with talented musicians (sound familiar?).
I also have no issues with Haken essentially being MP's backing band, but I think myself and others were under the impression it would be more of a super group. I guess when you add up between both sets and the LTE songs too, there is enough different musicians to maybe say that.
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Watching a video of Yes' set from the cruise, at Wakeman (I think?) has (and this is what I count), at least 10 keyboards, some other midi controller, pedals, 3 laptops, and an FX rack.
Someone's got to let that guy know... all that technology and he's probably just scratching the surface of all of it, not realizing the days of needed a different piece of gear for each sound are over. I mean... Neal Morse was on the boat too, right?
Well, Neal isn't exactly a wizard in that regard himself I would say. Maybe this has gotten better, but his first 5 solo albums or so used the same tired keyboard patches with little variation.
And on that note, JR could use some new patches as well.
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Hard to tell in the video, but are all of the guitarists playing Petrucci guitars?
Yeah, I believe so. From what I saw of the NMB sets on the cruise I think Eric normally plays one of the JP 7 string models, but Rich and Charlie definitely don't play those normally. I'm just assuming it's a tone thing, but I did think it was a little odd.
They played them all the way from Aquarius up to and including Visions and some of the shows for the Mountain. At some point they switched to the Strandbergs, though I've seen Charlie play one before, during the Visions shows, presumably because he'd needed the eighth string. Richard played the JP7 and a Telecaster at that particular show. Now both guitarists use the Strandbergs predominantly.
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Watching a video of Yes' set from the cruise, at Wakeman (I think?) has (and this is what I count), at least 10 keyboards, some other midi controller, pedals, 3 laptops, and an FX rack.
Someone's got to let that guy know... all that technology and he's probably just scratching the surface of all of it, not realizing the days of needed a different piece of gear for each sound are over. I mean... Neal Morse was on the boat too, right?
I wasn't there, but did Wakeman play with Yes? I thought Geoff Downes was playing keys for Yes at this point?
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Watching a video of Yes' set from the cruise, at Wakeman (I think?) has (and this is what I count), at least 10 keyboards, some other midi controller, pedals, 3 laptops, and an FX rack.
Someone's got to let that guy know... all that technology and he's probably just scratching the surface of all of it, not realizing the days of needed a different piece of gear for each sound are over. I mean... Neal Morse was on the boat too, right?
Well, Neal isn't exactly a wizard in that regard himself I would say. Maybe this has gotten better, but his first 5 solo albums or so used the same tired keyboard patches with little variation.
And on that note, JR could use some new patches as well.
Oh, totally. I wasn't commenting on the quality of patches (not sure Downes, or Wakeman, or whoever are any better in that regard). I was more commenting on the number of keyboards. At least Morse gets the same number (and probably quality) of sounds from a few keyboards, and Rudess only needs one.
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That's definitely a somewhat annoying trend in prog. Back in the day I actually thought MP's kit size was approaching silly levels, little did I know what was in store...
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I gotta agree with you Rumborak.
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Atleast JP can't play three guitars at the same time. :neverusethis:
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Shattered Fortress
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8sDtIiZ8a7E
I think Ross did a pretty good job on this. Whoever was harmonizing was pretty bad though.
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Whoever was harmonizing was pretty bad though.
Er, MP? :lol
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Whoever was harmonizing was pretty bad though.
Er, MP? :lol
Him, plus the guitarist dude that isn't part of Haken was doing some harmonizing as well.
Though, none of us can say the harmonizing was bad since the video quality wasn't great. :yarr
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Also, I'm currently watching the last LTE live show (with the real band) and I'm realizing more and more that LTE should never include a different member. The band's energy is derived by those specific musicians and their specific chemistry. I don't think it was a great idea for MP to try to duplicate it with a different guitarist/keyboardist, and I don't think LTE should try it with a different drummer. Maybe if they played new music instead, but trying to do the old songs just sounds a bit stale without that right chemistry.
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Though, none of us can say the harmonizing was bad since the video quality wasn't great. :yarr
:biggrin:
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Whoever was harmonizing was pretty bad though.
Er, MP? :lol
Him, plus the guitarist dude that isn't part of Haken was doing some harmonizing as well.
I'm pretty sure the cringe worthy part was not MP although in the Glass Prison he seemed to struggle a little with the harmonies. That was more forgivable. But man, if it was the Eric Gillette guy doing the high harmonies, it pretty much solidifies my opinion of his voice.
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Slightly off topic, but why was Daniel there?
Did PoS perform? Or was he literally there just to do the guest spots with Transatlantic and MP?
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I'm pretty sure the cringe worthy part was not MP although in the Glass Prison he seemed to struggle a little with the harmonies. That was more forgivable. But man, if it was the Eric Gillette guy doing the high harmonies, it pretty much solidifies my opinion of his voice.
Eric sounds okay on Neal Morse's latest record (better than Neil I'd say, but I just hate his voice so it doesn't say much :lol). I gotta admit he struggles a lot live based on these videos.
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Slightly off topic, but why was Daniel there?
Did PoS perform? Or was he literally there just to do the guest spots with Transatlantic and MP?
I believe PoS was on the bill
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Also, I'm currently watching the last LTE live show (with the real band) and I'm realizing more and more that LTE should never include a different member. The band's energy is derived by those specific musicians and their specific chemistry. I don't think it was a great idea for MP to try to duplicate it with a different guitarist/keyboardist, and I don't think LTE should try it with a different drummer. Maybe if they played new music instead, but trying to do the old songs just sounds a bit stale without that right chemistry.
Imagine if MPs true vision came through and it had Dimebag Darrell as a guitarist.
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Slightly off topic, but why was Daniel there?
Did PoS perform? Or was he literally there just to do the guest spots with Transatlantic and MP?
I believe PoS was on the bill
Yes indeed, PoS was one of the other bands on the cruise.
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Also, I'm currently watching the last LTE live show (with the real band) and I'm realizing more and more that LTE should never include a different member. The band's energy is derived by those specific musicians and their specific chemistry. I don't think it was a great idea for MP to try to duplicate it with a different guitarist/keyboardist, and I don't think LTE should try it with a different drummer. Maybe if they played new music instead, but trying to do the old songs just sounds a bit stale without that right chemistry.
I think the same applies to Transatlantic.
Having said that, it was obviously impossible for him to get every band member for all of these bands on the cruise, so doing them this way as a one-off for the cruise was fine, I think.
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So, I'm only half-informed about this whole thing, but was that the only event at which the 12SS will be played? I somehow thought there would be more, but then I can't imagine MP lugging around Daniel Gildenlow and Haken just for the purpose of this thing.
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So, I'm only half-informed about this whole thing, but was that the only event at which the 12SS will be played? I somehow thought there would be more, but then I can't imagine MP lugging around Daniel Gildenlow and Haken just for the purpose of this thing.
It's happening at at least one more event, one of those prog-power type things (maybe even prog-power, I dunno). I believe Haken will be playing there anyway, and assuming PoS isn't there, the dude from Haken will probably just sing more of it, or he'll ask someone else there to read lyrics....I mean sing with them.
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So, I'm only half-informed about this whole thing, but was that the only event at which the 12SS will be played? I somehow thought there would be more, but then I can't imagine MP lugging around Daniel Gildenlow and Haken just for the purpose of this thing.
It's happening at at least one more event, one of those prog-power type things (maybe even prog-power, I dunno). I believe Haken will be playing there anyway, and assuming PoS isn't there, the dude from Haken will probably just sing more of it, or he'll ask someone else there to read lyrics....I mean sing with them.
To be fair, I've heard that song MANY times, and I don't know those lyrics. Granted, unless it was very last minute, you should probably show up to a gig prepared.
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So, I'm only half-informed about this whole thing, but was that the only event at which the 12SS will be played? I somehow thought there would be more, but then I can't imagine MP lugging around Daniel Gildenlow and Haken just for the purpose of this thing.
It's happening at at least one more event, one of those prog-power type things (maybe even prog-power, I dunno). I believe Haken will be playing there anyway, and assuming PoS isn't there, the dude from Haken will probably just sing more of it, or he'll ask someone else there to read lyrics....I mean sing with them.
To be fair, I've heard that song MANY times, and I don't know those lyrics. Granted, unless it was very last minute, you should probably show up to a gig prepared.
Oh I know, it was just funny. You had the Haken dude who sang most of the suite doing just fine, the root of all evil guy (who I liked) doing fine too, and Daniel reading off a piece of paper. It's likely he was a last minute edition.
Also, are there any vids of PoS at this show? That I'd like to see. I didn't even realize they played.
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Also, I get the impression that the guys in Haken are big fans of DT's music, and Ross was probably familiar with the song, while I would guess the opposite is true of Daniel.
But yes, I would love to see some video of PoS.
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So, I'm only half-informed about this whole thing, but was that the only event at which the 12SS will be played? I somehow thought there would be more, but then I can't imagine MP lugging around Daniel Gildenlow and Haken just for the purpose of this thing.
It's happening at at least one more event, one of those prog-power type things (maybe even prog-power, I dunno). I believe Haken will be playing there anyway, and assuming PoS isn't there, the dude from Haken will probably just sing more of it, or he'll ask someone else there to read lyrics....I mean sing with them.
MP's The Shattered Fortress will be playing in Mexico aswell, in September, along with Next to None & Haken, so I guess is going to be Haken + MP.
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This guy uploaded almost the whole suite!: https://www.youtube.com/user/mojorisin224/videos?shelf_id=0&view=0&sort=dd
THE GLASS PRISON (entire song): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=agJr9Ht3Uow
REPENTANCE (unlinked here yet): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JUk0tLdmt2Y
THE SHATTERED FORTRESS (first part): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=149mf2U5G_Y
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I'm impressed by how well they pulled off these songs. Very faithful to the original parts and solos too. The keyboardist even got a lot of parts right that I didn't expect, not because of difficulty, but because of the attention to detail to care enough, such as the little sitar-y bit in the intro of TSF, and some of the background keyboard parts in the middle of TGP. Very well done. The vocals are the main area where it's the most jarring that I'm not hearing DT.
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Also, I get the impression that the guys in Haken are big fans of DT's music[...]
If memory serves correctly, I was sat two people away from Charlie at the Score show in 2006. I remember him having hair then, though ;D
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The vocals are the main area where it's the most jarring that I'm not hearing DT.
And this is probably why the people that defend JLB all these years feel vindicated. Some fans would argue there are many singers that could do their job better than James, yet when someone else tries it, rarely do they nail it.
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I think it´s great that Mike has found a way of playing more DT songs than just Repentance (which was played by Flying Colours), although for a short period of time. The AA Saga deserved a full rendition for a while, and I think it was MP´s intention to play it in full in DT´s next tour after BCSL, right?
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Indeed, if I recall correctly there was the tentative idea of having a concept album and playing the concept in the first set and the AA in the second.
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I'm impressed by how well they pulled off these songs. Very faithful to the original parts and solos too. The keyboardist even got a lot of parts right that I didn't expect, not because of difficulty, but because of the attention to detail to care enough, such as the little sitar-y bit in the intro of TSF, and some of the background keyboard parts in the middle of TGP. Very well done. The vocals are the main area where it's the most jarring that I'm not hearing DT.
I agree with you. The funny thing is I always wondered on how DT would sound with another singer and well not great :lol
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Great that Mike was able to put this together. Instrumentally, I think it sounds pretty cool. I'm not a fan of the vocals, which is what has kept me from liking Haken's music in the past. Same thing here. I think they definitely needed someone with more grit. But great that Mike was able to pull together enough reputable musicians to pull this off.
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I was at Cruise to the edge, was absolutely amazing, Ross does a great LaBrie (perhaps not in some recordings).
Blown away by Eric Gillette, couldn't believe how amazing he was, it seemed Charlie and Richard were mainly just doubling his parts.
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Great that Mike was able to put this together. Instrumentally, I think it sounds pretty cool. I'm not a fan of the vocals, which is what has kept me from liking Haken's music in the past. Same thing here. I think they definitely needed someone with more grit. But great that Mike was able to pull together enough reputable musicians to pull this off.
This basically sums up my thoughts after clicking through the videos in the thread.
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I know Haken is big in the prog world. I haven't given them a real good listen, honestly. That said, am I the only one surprised that Mike didn't get a more widely-known group of musicians to back him. Yeah, Haken is popular with prog guys, and it was a prog cruise. But one thing that occurred to me a few months ago, was this would have been an excellent chance to finally hear John Arch sing Dream Theater songs, like Portnoy wanted pre-LaBrie. I was a little surprised Arch, or even a guy like Nathan James (whose band opened for the Winery Dogs in the UK) wasn't recruited.
Glad MP was happy, and fans loved it. I guess I just expected some bigger names...
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Hmm. This is pure speculation on my part, but I wonder if Mike was focused primarily on getting the instrumentalists together, and the vocals ended up being an afterthought.
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Hmm. This is pure speculation on my part, but I wonder if Mike was focused primarily on getting the instrumentalists together, and the vocals ended up being an afterthought.
If so, he did a good job. In all of this talk of the vocals, I think most of us overlooked just how well the musicians came together to play what is a terribly difficult bit of music. One of these songs is hard, all five of them is a monstrous task.
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Hmm. This is pure speculation on my part, but I wonder if Mike was focused primarily on getting the instrumentalists together, and the vocals ended up being an afterthought.
Well if you watch Haken's video "Final farewell to the empire jam" where they play 'The Mirror', I think that shows that Jennings is capable of LaBrie's parts.
My feeling is he looked who was booked on the cruise and picked a selection from them.
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Hmm. This is pure speculation on my part, but I wonder if Mike was focused primarily on getting the instrumentalists together, and the vocals ended up being an afterthought.
Well if he had the rest of Haken together, would it be odd to be like "well now the vocals.... time passes... oh hey Ross..." Seems odd. MP is close with the Haken guys. Haken and MP were at ProgPower last year, MP's Shattered Fortress was announced at that same ProgPower to be performing there next year, with Haken also being a headliner. It seems very likely, to me, that MP and Haken were going to be working together on this for awhile.
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I think a couple things went into it. One being it's convenient/cost effective to have participants be members in other bands playing at these festivals. Secondly, you basically had MP + Eric and then the Haken guys who each already have some chemistry playing together and could each rehearse separately if they wanted to ahead of time. They only really had one day of rehearsals before the cruise left, probably would have been even tougher to pull it off as well as they did (at least instrumentally) if you had a bunch of different guys from different bands who were playing together for the first time in those rehearsals. This all aside from the fact that everyone selected is a great musician in their own right who MP clearly has respect for and is friends with.
I may have misunderstood Ted when he was talking to Nick afterwards, but I believe he said that Ross divided up the vocal parts that Daniel and he would take, so I wouldn't be surprised if you saw something similar with guest vocalists from bands playing at the other festivals. Daniel and Ted (but Daniel more egregiously) reading lyrics off a laptop onstage was probably the only off-putting part of the whole performance to me. Good thing Daniel's too pretty and Ted's too nice for me to stay mad :D
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First post here :D
After seeing the videos I'm extremely happy with my tickets for Night of the Prog in Germany.
Really impressed by the musical performance and couldn't be happier as Haken are one of my favorites and I'm deepy impressed each time I see Gilette play.
The vocals are the part that could be improved but it's a great recognition for LaBrie to see a few great vocalists struggle with these songs.
Would love to see Russell Allen joining the crew as I think he would be an amazing and some parts of me still wants to add a female singer and see how that works out.
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The vocals are the main area where it's the most jarring that I'm not hearing DT.
And this is probably why the people that defend JLB all these years feel vindicated. Some fans would argue there are many singers that could do their job better than James, yet when someone else tries it, rarely do they nail it.
So true. I think I may be more forgiving of Ross than most people. His vocals have kind of grown on me. Bosk said his vocals kept him from enjoying Haken whereas with me, it's actually the music that kept me from enjoying Haken.
That said, Ross is still no JLB. He does a fine job and has somewhat of a distinct voice that I think is cool but I'll take any era of James any day over any of these guys.
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I know MP isn't allowed to make any money off of recordings of those songs, but could he potentially put a soundboard audio quality or better version on youtube for free?
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I know MP isn't allowed to make any money off of recordings of those songs, but could he potentially put a soundboard audio quality or better version on youtube for free?
This is coming very soon, though not soundboard but what I've heard so far is very promising (a fiend of mine recorded most of the shows (audio/video) he is editing some of them as we speak
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I know MP isn't allowed to make any money off of recordings of those songs, but could he potentially put a soundboard audio quality or better version on youtube for free?
Well, you're not allowed to release anything without licensing it. Something like that would probably require DT to sign off on it and they would require money so Mike would have to pay up either way.
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But people release covers on YouTube all the time. They're not paying fees.
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But people release covers on YouTube all the time. They're not paying fees.
You are allowed to make money on youtube performing cover songs. Not sure why though. Maybe because it's ad money and not money purchased on the product (the song)? I would imagine DT would need to sign off on MP releasing this, but I also don't see why they wouldn't. They would make money off of work they aren't performing and let their old friend do the thing he wants to do. I see it as a win win if that's the case.
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But people release covers on YouTube all the time. They're not paying fees.
It's become very muddied with youtube but if you are using someone else's intellectual property like music, you need to pay. Do all cover bands pay when they play shows? Of course not. Is it illegal? Yes, if they (or the venue) doesn't pay. When was the last time Bret Michaels sued someone for using Every Rose Has A Thorn on youtube that has 25 views? Never.
Kind of a bigger deal when your former drummer with a million followers does it.
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So those split screen covers of DT songs all paid DT money and required DT to sign off?
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You are allowed to make money on youtube performing cover songs. Not sure why though.
You are not. If you upload a cover, the bot usually recognizes it (unless you completely programmed and mixed the cover yourself) and adds ads that pay the label directly. You don't make a dime.
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One thing those videos left me with was a deep appreciation for how hard it is to be Dream Theater's singer. Even Gildenlow seemed clueless how to pull off some of those parts in TDS, and say what you want about Gildenlow, but there isn't a more technically proficient singer in metal IMO.
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You are allowed to make money on youtube performing cover songs. Not sure why though.
You are not. If you upload a cover, the bot usually recognizes it (unless you completely programmed and mixed the cover yourself) and adds ads that pay the label directly. You don't make a dime.
Not true. It does that automatically, but youtube gives you the option to claim it as your own cover of the song after the copyright has been claimed. I've gotten the notice plenty of time for uploading live songs for which I do not monetize since it's totally not my ownership. Youtube allows you to make money on your own cover of a song. But not all songs.
https://support.google.com/youtube/answer/3301938?hl=en (https://support.google.com/youtube/answer/3301938?hl=en)
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am I the only one surprised that Mike didn't get a more widely-known group of musicians to back him.
Nope, definitely you're not.. Almost everyone here is criticizing that..
One thing those videos left me with was a deep appreciation for how hard it is to be Dream Theater's singer.
I didn't need these vids to know that, but I suppose they show it perfectly..
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am I the only one surprised that Mike didn't get a more widely-known group of musicians to back him.
Nope, definitely you're not.. Almost everyone here is criticizing that..
One thing those videos left me with was a deep appreciation for how hard it is to be Dream Theater's singer.
I didn't need these vids to know that, but I suppose they show it perfectly..
The irony to all this being that this project will show just how irreplaceable Labrie is to DT, relative to their ex drummer.
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The irony to all this being that this project will show just how irreplaceable Labrie is to DT, relative to their ex drummer.
I have no ill will toward Mike, but that is funny. :rollin
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So those split screen covers of DT songs all paid DT money and required DT to sign off?
Technically speaking, I think DT could have that video removed just like AC/DC could force some bar in Kentucky to cancel their AC/DC tribute band if they aren't paying the proper royalties or are using unauthorized intellectual property. Has DT or AC/DC ever done that? No.
Now if this AC/DC tribute band actually started to draw a few thousand people a night instead of 40, then AC/DC might take action.
Now as far as whether they have to sign off or not, I'm not an expert but there are a few things to consider. MP and DT signed an agreement after he left of which the terms are not well known other than MP can't use the Dream Theater name or logo to promote himself or sell DT material. That is why he can't sell his drumcam DVDs for DT stuff. Other stuff to consider would be the record label and licensing group.
I know Slash had a live DVD and he was only allowed to include GNR covers in the European version. The American version went without them. This was of course before they made up.
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One thing those videos left me with was a deep appreciation for how hard it is to be Dream Theater's singer. Even Gildenlow seemed clueless how to pull off some of those parts in TDS, and say what you want about Gildenlow, but there isn't a more technically proficient singer in metal IMO.
Yeaaah, but at the same time, I very much suspect that most of those singers had little preparation for the songs. Despite what a lot of people think, singing is a *craft*, and knowing how to navigate a tune takes preparation and experience. JLB knows what he's doing, but at the same time, Daniel Gildenlow would sound a lot better if this was a PoS song that he would prepare meticulously for.
I am absolutely sure that Daniel will not have staked his professional career on this leisure cruise performance.
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One thing those videos left me with was a deep appreciation for how hard it is to be Dream Theater's singer. Even Gildenlow seemed clueless how to pull off some of those parts in TDS, and say what you want about Gildenlow, but there isn't a more technically proficient singer in metal IMO.
Yeaaah, but at the same time, I very much suspect that most of those singers had little preparation for the songs. Despite what a lot of people think, singing is a *craft*, and knowing how to navigate a tune takes preparation and experience. JLB knows what he's doing, but at the same time, Daniel Gildenlow would sound a lot better if this was a PoS song that he would prepare meticulously for.
I am absolutely sure that Daniel will not have staked his professional career on this leisure cruise performance.
Yeah, I think anyone familiar with Daniel Gildenlow or Ted Leonard's other work knows they're fully capable of handling this material if they're prepared for it. Considering how much they were both staring at the lyrics, I don't think either of them were. And Ted's voice was apparently shot already due to illness.
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Yes, both Gildenlöw and Leonard would be able to put up a great performance of those songs if they were better prepared. Don't know if they didn't have the time or just didn't really care (could imagine that for Gildenlöw) but it's obvious that they weren't really ready.
Doesn't mean that they would or could be better than JLB, but if they would give the songs their own note it could be interesting.
I know MP isn't allowed to make any money off of recordings of those songs, but could he potentially put a soundboard audio quality or better version on youtube for free?
I'm pretty sure that he's allowed, but he has to ask first. The same that DT probably have to ask him before releasing songs that MP co-wrote.
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I'm pretty sure that he's allowed, but he has to ask first. The same that DT probably have to ask him before releasing songs that MP co-wrote.
Unlikely. MP doesn't own the songs. Doesn't matter who wrote them.
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Who owns the songs then?
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Who owns the songs then?
Elektra & Roadrunner I'm pretty sure.
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I think this was addressed earlier in this thread and I'm pretty sure that MP can release DT songs. In fact he has done so with PMSM and Flying Colours. There surely is some kind of agreement between DT and MP regarding this matter.
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Yeah, the PSMS concert he released has part of ACOS, LITS, and HK on it as well as Acid Rain from LTE.
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It all depends on the contract. For all we know there's a special condition, allowing performing rights to Portnoy for this specific suite. Could be the reason why he has been playing Repentance in the past too. But yeah, like IDontNotDoThings said, the recording of the song is owned by the label.
If any money is made off recordings of this particular set, I'm pretty sure it counts as neighboring rights. As Dream Theater are the rightful songwriters, the royalties would then be split between them and Mr. Portny.
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For all we know there's a special condition, allowing performing rights to Portnoy for this specific suite.
Actually, now that you mention it, I'm pretty sure MP mentioned specifically that he wanted to do this. I'm not sure what came about from it though.
(https://i.imgur.com/EC4fcV0.png)
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I've seen it all by now, and everyone did a terrific job on this. Instrumentally, except for a few moments, it was flawless. Ross did a great job, but doesn't have the grit or the power to bring these songs to life as JLB did. I agree to the earlier sentiment, that it shows that despite all the criticism and hate he gets he is somewhat irreplaceable. Whenever I think of DT, I automatically think of James LaBrie and that's what makes him a vital part of the band despite being inconsistent/*insert any JLB criticism* live.
That being said, Portnoy probably had this band assembled months ago; which kinda makes it kinda inexcusable for the 'they were not prepared' thing. There is no way of knowing how the rehearsals or the pre-show preparation went through, but the one that seemed the most engaged with the music was Ross. That kinda makes sense because of all the singers involved he is the one that's comfortable in the heavy domain, but as I said earlier everyone did an amazing job. This turned out better than I thought it would.
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The only shame is, this lineup is obviously only coming together for this thing. I had maybe hoped a bit that MP was assembling a band to possibly base something else on it afterwards, but that's not going to happen.
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I don't know what the contract says - and that is really all that matters - but we're confusing some things here.
"Owning the songs" can mean several different things:
- Rights to the publishing
- Rights to previously recorded performances
- Rights to new recordings of existing songs
"Owning rights" is often about what the owner can do or not do, but it is just as often about preventing others from doing. I know a little more about the Queensryche thing because of the court cases and some of the disclosures, and absent any agreement there was nothing stopping Tater from performing Mindcrime or Mindcrime II in their entirety, but there was nothing stopping the LaTorre version from doing the same. I believe the "agreement" there is that the LaTorre version CANNOT stage their own opera and compete with Tater. I would guess - though it's purely a guess - that Mike's statement about owning the rights to the Suite is similar. I know nothing, I've been told nothing, but I suspect the recent performances of A Change of Seasons by DT have not gone down well with Mike, and yet there's not really anything he can do, absent a specific agreement between the parties that "X entity will not perform Y song in public without the prior written permission (or active participation) of Z".
It gets a little squirrely when you start talking about "operas" or "complete pieces of work" (this was an issue with Dweezil and his "Zappa Plays Zappa"; Ahmet argued that he could prevent Dweezil from playing those works because they were a complete body of work, and not just "individual songs" as Dweezil (and the law, it seems) maintained). In other words - and for the third time, I have not read the contracts, so I cannot say this for certain - The Musical Box likely does not HAVE to get permission to play the "Selling England By The Pound" setlist, but under certain conditions, they may have to get permission to put on a presentation of "The Lamb Lies Down On Broadway". I know they did get permission for both anyway, out of respect for the band (and to elicit cooperation with costumes, set pieces, etc.) but there's a difference between what they have to do and what they choose to do.
Then there's the sale of recorded works of the performance. This was also likely addressed by the agreement between the parties (and I will note again, I am not privy to that agreement, so this is guesswork). It's one thing to include "Repentence" on a Flying Colors live disk - absent a specific agreement, it's no different than Dream Theater playing "Enter Sandman" as part of "Peruvian Skies". They didn't have to call Lars and get specific written permission (though as colleagues and friends they may have, who knows). This is also why Kiss and Def Leppard (and Iron Maiden and Little River Band and Foreigner) have all re-recorded versions of their songs and released them when faced with obstruction from their former record companies (it is also why I was surprised that DT never recut WDADU with LaBrie). The "Ytsejam" thing complicates things, and I understand there is a specific prohibition against releasing anything that might have reasonably come out on the Ytsejam label in the past (certainly anything that has the current members of DT on it; I believe both sides have addressed that publicly after the split). I honestly don't know if a "Shattered Fortress" set will ever be released; it's potentially something that was addressed at the time of the breakup and it will depend on how it was addressed.
I haven't even talked about "billing" the shows either; that is a whole different ball of wax.
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"Owning rights" is often about what the owner can do or not do, but it is just as often about preventing others from doing. I know a little more about the Queensryche thing because of the court cases and some of the disclosures, and absent any agreement there was nothing stopping Tater from performing Mindcrime or Mindcrime II in their entirety, but there was nothing stopping the LaTorre version from doing the same. I believe the "agreement" there is that the LaTorre version CANNOT stage their own opera and compete with Tater. I would guess - though it's purely a guess - that Mike's statement about owning the rights to the Suite is similar. I know nothing, I've been told nothing, but I suspect the recent performances of A Change of Seasons by DT have not gone down well with Mike, and yet there's not really anything he can do, absent a specific agreement between the parties that "X entity will not perform Y song in public without the prior written permission (or active participation) of Z".
Any band can play ANY song live. Venues pay fees to publishing companies, which allows for the performance of copyrighted music and cover songs. There are no laws against an artist playing a song that is not written by them. Why can Billy Joel play an AC/DC song live? Because he wants to. The same goes for any band, whether it's a bar band or international artist.
Queensryche went through a legal and corporate buyout, and Tate was smart to negotiate certain rights and terms for restricting a full performance of Mindcrime by the band. Portnoy's statement above is just a regret that he wishes he could have obtained a similar right, preventing DT from performing the 12 Step Suite without him.
Could Portnoy have hurt feelings that DT is playing ACOS? Sure. But there isn't anything that says that they can't play it - it is a Dream Theater song. Period. The same goes for the Portnoy playing covers of the 12 Step Suite. He can play whatever song he wants to play live.
The only time rights come into play is if he wanted to release a recorded version of the song - he'd have to pay Dream Theater for the ability to release the music.
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Could Portnoy have hurt feelings that DT is playing ACOS? Sure. But there isn't anything that says that they can't play it - it is a Dream Theater song. Period. The same goes for the Portnoy playing covers of the 12 Step Suite. He can play whatever song he wants to play live.
The only time rights come into play is if he wanted to release a recorded version of the song - he'd have to pay Dream Theater for the ability to release the music.
That begs the question though that Portnoy advertised this as The Shattered Fortress. Does that naming have any legal rights of ownership? This discussion is interesting. I've always wondered how this stuff works, but also always figured that a live cover is legally OK since it happens all of the time.
I saw Reel Big Fish recently and they finished the set with their cover of "Take on Me" which was actually a pretty popular song for them (their cover of it) so it makes me wonder how all that works legally/money wise. They have a 10 million viewed music video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QHpU0ZfXZ_g (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QHpU0ZfXZ_g) I see the ad revenue estimated to be 15k for that music video on youtube. Where does that money go? Says owned by VEVO.
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Could Portnoy have hurt feelings that DT is playing ACOS? Sure. But there isn't anything that says that they can't play it - it is a Dream Theater song. Period. The same goes for the Portnoy playing covers of the 12 Step Suite. He can play whatever song he wants to play live.
The only time rights come into play is if he wanted to release a recorded version of the song - he'd have to pay Dream Theater for the ability to release the music.
That begs the question though that Portnoy advertised this as The Shattered Fortress. Does that naming have any legal rights of ownership? This discussion is interesting. I've always wondered how this stuff works, but also always figured that a live cover is legally OK since it happens all of the time.
I'd just guess that he needed a name for the band so it could be advertised, and Shattered Fortress sounded cooler than Mike Portnoy's Glass Prison or Mike Portnoy's 12 Steps Live!. ;D
The Shattered Fortress is just a pairing of three words together. Someone can trademark a phrase, but a song title isn't automatically trademarked, nor does it come with a trademark upon copyrighting, to my knowledge. The music is copyrighted, but the title isn't. Hence how you can have different bands release songs with the same titles (Megadeth and Iced Earth both have songs and albums titled Dystopia, but feature different musical compositions.)
As far as cover songs - the rights to a cover song are purchased and obtained prior to its release. I think it can be recorded at any time, but not released until the rights are purchased. Megadeth recorded a cover of These Boots, and the revenues generated were paid to the owner of the publishing rights of the original song. Dave's been on record saying that the songwriter cashed his checks for years before objecting to their change in lyrics.
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I loved the Dudes version of These Boots.
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Ross did a great job, but doesn't have the grit or the power to bring these songs to life as JLB did. I agree to the earlier sentiment, that it shows that despite all the criticism and hate he gets he is somewhat irreplaceable.
With this and the previous posts about the vocalists with the same sentiment, I get the impression people are comparing these live performances with JLB's studio performances. Which hardly seems fair.
Don't get me wrong, I love JLB. And even on off nights, his voice has a lovely unique quality that is such a signature part of DT's sound. Instrumentally, the musicians can generate guitar tones and keyboard patches that match DT's well, but it'll always sound different with anyone other than James. But different doesn't always mean worse.
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"Owning rights" is often about what the owner can do or not do, but it is just as often about preventing others from doing. I know a little more about the Queensryche thing because of the court cases and some of the disclosures, and absent any agreement there was nothing stopping Tater from performing Mindcrime or Mindcrime II in their entirety, but there was nothing stopping the LaTorre version from doing the same. I believe the "agreement" there is that the LaTorre version CANNOT stage their own opera and compete with Tater. I would guess - though it's purely a guess - that Mike's statement about owning the rights to the Suite is similar. I know nothing, I've been told nothing, but I suspect the recent performances of A Change of Seasons by DT have not gone down well with Mike, and yet there's not really anything he can do, absent a specific agreement between the parties that "X entity will not perform Y song in public without the prior written permission (or active participation) of Z".
Any band can play ANY song live. Venues pay fees to publishing companies, which allows for the performance of copyrighted music and cover songs. There are no laws against an artist playing a song that is not written by them. Why can Billy Joel play an AC/DC song live? Because he wants to. The same goes for any band, whether it's a bar band or international artist.
Queensryche went through a legal and corporate buyout, and Tate was smart to negotiate certain rights and terms for restricting a full performance of Mindcrime by the band. Portnoy's statement above is just a regret that he wishes he could have obtained a similar right, preventing DT from performing the 12 Step Suite without him.
Could Portnoy have hurt feelings that DT is playing ACOS? Sure. But there isn't anything that says that they can't play it - it is a Dream Theater song. Period. The same goes for the Portnoy playing covers of the 12 Step Suite. He can play whatever song he wants to play live.
The only time rights come into play is if he wanted to release a recorded version of the song - he'd have to pay Dream Theater for the ability to release the music.
That's all consistent with what I said, with the proviso that anyone can contract with anyone else provided there is consideration. it is possible, though not likely that the parties we're talking about (QR, DT, Tater or Mike), in their "severance agreements", COULD have a clause preventing the other from playing particular songs. It's easier with the full performance of a Mindcrime, because as I noted, those are sometimes treated separately.
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Ross did a great job, but doesn't have the grit or the power to bring these songs to life as JLB did. I agree to the earlier sentiment, that it shows that despite all the criticism and hate he gets he is somewhat irreplaceable.
With this and the previous posts about the vocalists with the same sentiment, I get the impression people are comparing these live performances with JLB's studio performances. Which hardly seems fair.
I get what you're saying, but that's not the point at all. As I mentioned earlier, I thought that Ross kicked some major ass and was the best among all the singers involved, but I don't think his timbre is as great for these songs as JLB's and vice versa; I just can't imagine JLB singing some Haken and pulling it off as amazingly well as Ross does. I'm probably biased because I've been listening these songs with JLB for years (obviously), but that's about it. I don't think all of the others that have posted similar things to me have meant to start a live Ross vs. studio JLB feud.
It's not a competition, music should never be a competition. All I said is that hearing these (great) versions of the AA suite made me appreciate JLB's role in Dream Theater even more.
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Ross did a great job, but doesn't have the grit or the power to bring these songs to life as JLB did. I agree to the earlier sentiment, that it shows that despite all the criticism and hate he gets he is somewhat irreplaceable.
With this and the previous posts about the vocalists with the same sentiment, I get the impression people are comparing these live performances with JLB's studio performances. Which hardly seems fair.
I get what you're saying, but that's not the point at all. As I mentioned earlier, I thought that Ross kicked some major ass and was the best among all the singers involved, but I don't think his timbre is as great for these songs as JLB's and vice versa; I just can't imagine JLB singing some Haken and pulling it off as amazingly well as Ross does. I'm probably biased because I've been listening these songs with JLB for years (obviously), but that's about it. I don't think all of the others that have posted similar things to me have meant to start a live Ross vs. studio JLB feud.
It's not a competition, music should never be a competition. All I said is that hearing these (great) versions of the AA suite made me appreciate JLB's role in Dream Theater even more.
For sure, I'd basically agree with all of that and like I said JLB's unique voice is an integral part of DT's sound. And yeah all three of the other singers have quite a different style that won't fit with our expectations of these songs (Ted probably gets closest, I would say).
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Rehearsal Footage
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OVoIckva180&feature=youtu.be
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Rehearsal Footage
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OVoIckva180&feature=youtu.be
That was pretty awesome :yarr
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That's a cool vídeo! :metal
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That was cool.
Damn, I can only imagine the ungodly amount of practicing Eric Gillette must have done for this.
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One of the Haken guys told me they were practicing for over six months to get ready for this, and they weren't pulling off all the solos Eric was.
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That being said, Portnoy probably had this band assembled months ago; which kinda makes it kinda inexcusable for the 'they were not prepared' thing.
Haken and the other guitarist were very well prepared. The only person I saw that seemed very unprepared was Daniel, and I doubt he was in on it and practicing months ago, he was likely brought in last minute.
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Also it looks like they played all of repentance, ending and all. I'd love to see a quality video of how they pulled that off, the only one I saw actually was distorted to the point of being worthless.
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That was a fantastic video. What a talented bunch.
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Also it looks like they played all of repentance, ending and all. I'd love to see a quality video of how they pulled that off, the only one I saw actually was distorted to the point of being worthless.
If you mean this one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JUk0tLdmt2Y I think that's the way it actually sounded.. Right at 6:54 when the voices' section starts it does sound very distorted and you can see Ross covering his ears right away..
But yeah, I also hope to see something with better quality, of the whole thing....
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Also it looks like they played all of repentance, ending and all. I'd love to see a quality video of how they pulled that off, the only one I saw actually was distorted to the point of being worthless.
If you mean this one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JUk0tLdmt2Y I think that's the way it actually sounded.. Right at 6:54 when the voices' section starts it does sound very distorted and you can see Ross covering his ears right away..
But yeah, I also hope to see something with better quality, of the whole thing....
One thing I noticed in all the videos was that it looks like it was reasonably windy, which can screw with the sound even for those who are there in person. Wonder if Nick or Bill or anyone else who was there could shed some light on the overall sound quality.
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Eric is definitely the MVP of this cruise.
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Rehearsal Footage
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OVoIckva180&feature=youtu.be
lol Daniel Gildenlöw looks as if he doesn't want to be there :')
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I just watched Repentance. Between MP's vocals, the never-ending outro, the piped-in apologies, that song doesn't work at all IMHO.
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Rehearsal Footage
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OVoIckva180&feature=youtu.be
lol Daniel Gildenlöw looks as if he doesn't want to be there :')
Dunno if I'd say that - to me he looks more like he just doesn't really know what's going on. :lol
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Rehearsal Footage
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OVoIckva180&feature=youtu.be
lol Daniel Gildenlöw looks as if he doesn't want to be there :')
Dunno if I'd say that - to me he looks more like he just doesn't really know what's going on. :lol
Exactly my thoughts. :lol
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Yeah, that's probably a better description :lol
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One of the Haken guys told me they were practicing for over six months to get ready for this, and they weren't pulling off all the solos Eric was.
I thought they said two months for them learning just the rhythm parts and six months for Eric learning leads and all? Could be mistaken though.
Also it looks like they played all of repentance, ending and all. I'd love to see a quality video of how they pulled that off, the only one I saw actually was distorted to the point of being worthless.
If you mean this one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JUk0tLdmt2Y I think that's the way it actually sounded.. Right at 6:54 when the voices' section starts it does sound very distorted and you can see Ross covering his ears right away..
But yeah, I also hope to see something with better quality, of the whole thing....
One thing I noticed in all the videos was that it looks like it was reasonably windy, which can screw with the sound even for those who are there in person. Wonder if Nick or Bill or anyone else who was there could shed some light on the overall sound quality.
There was definitely a bit of wind that night, though the sound was still pretty decent for us (~ 3 rows back just slightly stage left of dead center).
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That being said, Portnoy probably had this band assembled months ago; which kinda makes it kinda inexcusable for the 'they were not prepared' thing.
Haken and the other guitarist were very well prepared. The only person I saw that seemed very unprepared was Daniel, and I doubt he was in on it and practicing months ago, he was likely brought in last minute.
Yeah, instrumentally they were tight as hell. I said that because of Ted and Daniel.
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I just watched Repentance. Between MP's vocals, the never-ending outro, the piped-in apologies, that song doesn't work at all IMHO.
I love Repentance probably moreso than most people. I think there was a survey here that indicated it was a lot of peoples least favorite of the suite.
The thing that really didn't work for me was the vocal harmonies in the outro. I don't mind the never ending outro but it also requires a much more theatrical presentation. Basically they had just an average bar band lighting rig that was sort of hooked up to the beat of the song.
Imagine how much cooler that would have been with a more Pink Floyd presentation. A red light saturating the stage alternating with a deep blue or something.
Obviously there wasn't a budget for that and maybe for safety reasons they had to have a lot of the ship lights on but it just didn't seem as epic as I expected.
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Other than TRoAE, I don't care for any of the 12 step songs.
That said.....I do miss Mike's antics behind the kit. A lot. I would do a 3-4 hour drive to see this performed, but Atlanta is just too far away. For axeman and all the others, this certainly had to be more than special.
I enjoyed the rehearsal footage. Loved the brief moments of seeing the Caribbean in the background. Quite the unique setting.
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Rehearsal Footage
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OVoIckva180&feature=youtu.be
lol Daniel Gildenlöw looks as if he doesn't want to be there :')
Dunno if I'd say that - to me he looks more like he just doesn't really know what's going on. :lol
Combine that with him having to read the lyrics from a sheet during the performance and you have to ask, why did he even agree to be a part of this? We can quibble about picking this guy or that guy, but everyone in it seemed to be into it and well prepared, except Gildenlow, who looked like he half-assed it.
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Favor for a friend? That's the only thing I can really think of.
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Kinda disappointed in the transition from TDS to TROAE. I always envisioned them going from the last chord of TDS straight into that riff. I get why they did it that way logistically, but it still would've been cool.
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Combine that with him having to read the lyrics from a sheet during the performance and you have to ask, why did he even agree to be a part of this? We can quibble about picking this guy or that guy, but everyone in it seemed to be into it and well prepared, except Gildenlow, who looked like he half-assed it.
I actually really liked what he did with it stylistically, which is kind of funny considering he seemed to barely know the song.
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Kinda disappointed in the transition from TDS to TROAE. I always envisioned them going from the last chord of TDS straight into that riff. I get why they did it that way logistically, but it still would've been cool.
Before the final section of the solo of TDS begins, there's a little moment of pause, almost a break; on a similar "almost pause" in Metropolis they black out the stage and pause a little for dramatic effect.
In this thread someone told that the songs are in different tunings, so that's why they can't flow together, but a question from a non musician... would it be hard to pause in that brief moment before the end, switch guitars and then continue with the last part of the solo and go into Root, like it's obviously meant to be once you play them back to back without Root's intro?
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Kinda disappointed in the transition from TDS to TROAE. I always envisioned them going from the last chord of TDS straight into that riff.
I'm definitely in the same boat - I was really looking forward to seeing how they went from one to another, and was bummed to see the way they did it.
Tho I never confirmed it with MP, I always figured they wrote TRoAE in a different tuning to fit the octave theme in 8v, since they chose to open with that song for that album, but when it finally came to performing the whole 12SS, that they'd adjust it so that it would flow from TDS to TRoAE seamlessly.
Since I'm clueless about tunings, I am curious - is TRoAE the only song with a different tuning, or do Repentance and/or TSF continue with the same tuning as TRoAE?
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Kinda disappointed in the transition from TDS to TROAE. I always envisioned them going from the last chord of TDS straight into that riff.
I'm definitely in the same boat - I was really looking forward to seeing how they went from one to another, and was bummed to see the way they did it.
Tho I never confirmed it with MP, I always figured they wrote TRoAE in a different tuning to fit the octave theme in 8v, since they chose to open with that song for that album, but when it finally came to performing the whole 12SS, that they'd adjust it so that it would flow from TDS to TRoAE seamlessly.
Since I'm clueless about tunings, I am curious - is TRoAE the only song with a different tuning, or do Repentance and/or TSF continue with the same tuning as TRoAE?
Everything's 7 string standard except TROAE. I don't recall the footage I've seen of the cruise showing the transitions between those songs, but I assume they had to swap guitars both before and after TROAE.
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Kinda disappointed in the transition from TDS to TROAE. I always envisioned them going from the last chord of TDS straight into that riff.
I'm definitely in the same boat - I was really looking forward to seeing how they went from one to another, and was bummed to see the way they did it.
Tho I never confirmed it with MP, I always figured they wrote TRoAE in a different tuning to fit the octave theme in 8v, since they chose to open with that song for that album, but when it finally came to performing the whole 12SS, that they'd adjust it so that it would flow from TDS to TRoAE seamlessly.
Since I'm clueless about tunings, I am curious - is TRoAE the only song with a different tuning, or do Repentance and/or TSF continue with the same tuning as TRoAE?
Everything's 7 string standard except TROAE. I don't recall the footage I've seen of the cruise showing the transitions between those songs, but I assume they had to swap guitars both before and after TROAE.
TROAE is played on a 6-string tuned to Eb instead of E. All the riffs in TROAE are easily playable on a 7-string, so I doubt they swapped guitars. TROAE's main riff is also in The Shattered Fortress, where it's played on a seven-stringed guitar. It's really no big deal.
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Kinda disappointed in the transition from TDS to TROAE. I always envisioned them going from the last chord of TDS straight into that riff.
I'm definitely in the same boat - I was really looking forward to seeing how they went from one to another, and was bummed to see the way they did it.
Tho I never confirmed it with MP, I always figured they wrote TRoAE in a different tuning to fit the octave theme in 8v, since they chose to open with that song for that album, but when it finally came to performing the whole 12SS, that they'd adjust it so that it would flow from TDS to TRoAE seamlessly.
Since I'm clueless about tunings, I am curious - is TRoAE the only song with a different tuning, or do Repentance and/or TSF continue with the same tuning as TRoAE?
Everything's 7 string standard except TROAE. I don't recall the footage I've seen of the cruise showing the transitions between those songs, but I assume they had to swap guitars both before and after TROAE.
TROAE is played on a 6-string tuned to Eb instead of E. All the riffs in TROAE are easily playable on a 7-string, so I doubt they swapped guitars. TROAE's main riff is also in The Shattered Fortress, where it's played on a seven-stringed guitar. It's really no big deal.
Looking back at the footage, it appears they're playing TROAE in half step tuning as on the album, but on 7 string guitars. I can see one of them tuning up beforehand, but I'm not sure if he's retuning the whole guitar on the fly or whether he was just double checking it had kept tune.
TROAE is technically playable on a 7 string, but it's definitely not ideal. The main riff is doable because it's a single note, and I think it's a little slower in TSF than in TROAE making it easier, but some of those other riffs wouldn't be so nice to play without the open strings in the right spot. I'd rather just work in the guitar swap than have to deal with that hassle, and the transitions in and out of TROAE naturally allow for that anyway.
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Sorry, I've missed most of this thread. Was there a youtube link that has the full performance (and if so is the quality any good?) or are they all just the individual songs?
Apologies for laziness :lol
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Yeah playing TROAE in the right key but in standard 7-string tuning would be really awkward.
The alternative of course is that they could have played it up a semi-tone. But I guess that might have made it harder for Ted to sing?
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Yeah playing TROAE in the right key but in standard 7-string tuning would be really awkward.
The alternative of course is that they could have played it up a semi-tone. But I guess that might have made it harder for Ted to sing?
Yeah, and then TROAE and the reprise in TSF would've been in different keys.
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Going by the videos, they're all using the same guitars through the whole suite, and they're all playing Root in the same position you'd play it in Eb tuning.
Charlie and Rich from Haken both use Axe-FXs and I'm pretty sure you can digitally detune with it. It wouldn't surprise me if Eric did the same thing, but I'm not sure what his rig is. You can see him tuning during the intro to Root so maybe he just physically detuned it.
Connor(The bass player) is using an actual amp, so he had to detune his bass physically. Probably not the whole bass, you could get away with just tuning the E, A and D strings down and leaving the B, G, and C strings alone.
Boom, myth busted.
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Connor(The bass player) is using an actual amp, so he had to detune his bass physically. Probably not the whole bass, you could get away with just tuning the E, A and D strings down and leaving the B, G, and C strings alone.
The "help to do for me what I can't do myself" section goes down to a low A# on bass, so the B string must've been tuned down as well.
(obligatory music geekery :lol)
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Connor(The bass player) is using an actual amp, so he had to detune his bass physically. Probably not the whole bass, you could get away with just tuning the E, A and D strings down and leaving the B, G, and C strings alone.
The "help to do for me what I can't do myself" section goes down to a low A# on bass, so the B string must've been tuned down as well.
(obligatory music geekery :lol)
You are correct :tup
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But here's the thing: Given that they have 3 guitarists, they easily could have a smoother transition there if they wanted to. TDS ends with crazy soloing and then the "dugga-dugga-dun-da-dun-da-dun-WAH" riff. You don't need 3 guitars to do that, even if you want to layer a second part under the solo. You can just have one or two guitars drop out at that part and while you have that solo section going on, and that player (or those two players) then either swaps guitars or detunes during that section. Then after the ending riff of TDS, the guitar or two guitars that dropped out can either come in with the same riff in the new key so that it basically modulates the song to the new key, or just go right to the main riff (I would prefer the former). Then the other guitar (or two guitars) that finished TDS can drop out and tune to the new key. When you have three guitarists, you have options. And they could do the same thing at the end of TROAE into Repentence if they wanted that to be continuous as well. You could just have one guitar playing the outro riff while the others switch guitars or tune back up (I think switching guitars is faster).
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But here's the thing: Given that they have 3 guitarists, they easily could have a smoother transition there if they wanted to. TDS ends with crazy soloing and then the "dugga-dugga-dun-da-dun-da-dun-WAH" riff. You don't need 3 guitars to do that, even if you want to layer a second part under the solo. You can just have one or two guitars drop out at that part and while you have that solo section going on, and that player (or those two players) then either swaps guitars or detunes during that section. Then after the ending riff of TDS, the guitar or two guitars that dropped out can either come in with the same riff in the new key so that it basically modulates the song to the new key, or just go right to the main riff (I would prefer the former). Then the other guitar (or two guitars) that finished TDS can drop out and tune to the new key. When you have three guitarists, you have options. And they could do the same thing at the end of TROAE into Repentence if they wanted that to be continuous as well. You could just have one guitar playing the outro riff while the others switch guitars or tune back up (I think switching guitars is faster).
Very good point.
TROAE on a seven string is really no big deal. It is one of the simpler DT songs and these guys are capable enough musicians that they could probably transpose it on the spot, let alone figure it out months in advance.
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Charlie and Rich from Haken both use Axe-FXs and I'm pretty sure you can digitally detune with it.
I have an Axe-Fx, and I used the detune option when playing SoC back in the day, because it's in Eb.
But, it's a last resort kind of thing. Maybe later Axe-Fx models got better at it, but mine definitely colors the sound and thins it out.
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Going back to my suggestion then, even though I know a cruise is different in that, because of space limitations, musicians often scale WAY back on what gear they bring, but just having an extra guitar waiting in the wings that is in a different tuning doesn't seem like much. If someone had thought about it, this would have been an easy solution to provide continuity (assuming there aren't other logistical reasons why they needed a break). Maybe we'll actually see something more like that when they do the subsequent performances.
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TROAE on a seven string is really no big deal. It is one of the simpler DT songs and these guys are capable enough musicians that they could probably transpose it on the spot, let alone figure it out months in advance.
Exactly. I tried to say that as well, but my comment got drowned out. TROAE is easy as it is, so on a seven-string that really only makes it a little more difficult, which shouldn't make it a problem at all. In fact, I just tried it for the hell of it and if I can do it with no problems whatsoever, these guys can do that too.
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Yea I've tried it too. Hardest thing is the main riff, which they have to learn on 7 string anyway for TSF. Even the solo isn't that difficult.
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The solo is very doable for Dream Theater standards indeed. It's a fun song to play - actually one of the first DT songs I ever learned I think.
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But here's the thing: Given that they have 3 guitarists, they easily could have a smoother transition there if they wanted to. TDS ends with crazy soloing and then the "dugga-dugga-dun-da-dun-da-dun-WAH" riff. You don't need 3 guitars to do that, even if you want to layer a second part under the solo. You can just have one or two guitars drop out at that part and while you have that solo section going on, and that player (or those two players) then either swaps guitars or detunes during that section. Then after the ending riff of TDS, the guitar or two guitars that dropped out can either come in with the same riff in the new key so that it basically modulates the song to the new key, or just go right to the main riff (I would prefer the former). Then the other guitar (or two guitars) that finished TDS can drop out and tune to the new key. When you have three guitarists, you have options. And they could do the same thing at the end of TROAE into Repentence if they wanted that to be continuous as well. You could just have one guitar playing the outro riff while the others switch guitars or tune back up (I think switching guitars is faster).
This is all perfectly valid but you might also consider that the band might benefit from a short break every now and then rather than a full hour of solid playing. :P
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Yes, but:
1. Mike is used to playing LONG pieces straight through with minimal stoppage (e.g., The Whirlwind, Six Degrees)
2. Before Repentance is the more logical place.
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Yes, but:
1. Mike wasn't the only performer
2. There's already a logical gap between TDS and TROAE that, if I remember rightly, DT did as well when they played those songs together.
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To the best of my knowledge they never played Root right after This Dying Soul.
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To the best of my knowledge they never played Root right after This Dying Soul.
Hmm, I thought I remembered it but maybe what I'm recalling was people's mixes of the songs. :lol
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Anyway, my suggestion for the continuity as I said earlier, which I don't know if it's musically viable, is to stop at the 10:45 mark of the song, as from the Budokan version:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2wKx_SBjHDY
Take advantage of that small moment of pause, like they do during Metropolis, to stop, black out the stage, change guitars, take a breath, and then launching into the final section of the solo and straight into Root.
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That would be awesome. It just seems like that final unison in TDS was meant to eventually act as an interlude to the next part. For them to not take advantage seems to defeat the purpose.
Also worth noting that MP said that Repentance was designed to give the band and audience a break after really heavy/technical music. So they do get a bit of a break.
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Any thoughts on the possibilities of a new Portnoy solo project emerging out of this? I could easily see him starting something with Diego and Eric Gillette.
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Any thoughts on the possibilities of a new Portnoy solo project emerging out of this? I could easily see him starting something with Diego and Eric Gillette.
Not getting my hopes up for that. The guys from Haken and Gilette are all gainfully employed.
Honestly, I've given up hope for a Portnoy prog band that isn't just some retread of the Neal Morse brand. Portnoy, Sherinian, MacAlpine, Sheenan was the lineup that could have done that (only needed a good vocalist), and apparently no one was interested after that initial tour.
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Not getting my hopes up for that. The guys from Haken and Gilette are all gainfully employed.
Honestly, I've given up hope for a Portnoy prog band that isn't just some retread of the Neal Morse brand. Portnoy, Sherinian, MacAlpine, Sheenan was the lineup that could have done that (only needed a good vocalist), and apparently no one was interested after that initial tour.
All they needed was a vocalist with a last name that begins with an "A"... then they'd be SPASM - Sherinian Portnoy A______ Sheehan MacAlpine. It'd be a great name for a prog metal/rock band. Russel Allen? Mikael Åkerfeldt?
But it seems like that ship may have sailed, and Mike gets to play with Billy in TWD anyway, so it's up to whether or not DS and TM would be willing to do something again.
-Marc.
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All they needed was a vocalist with a last name that begins with an "A"... then they'd be SPASM - Sherinian Portnoy A______ Sheehan MacALpine. It'd be a great name for a prog metal/rock band. Russel Allen? Mikael Åkerfeldt?
:clap:
That's awesome. Russell Allen is my favorite vocalist these days, and MP already worked with him in AMOB. Apparently there already is a band called Spasm: https://www.metal-archives.com/albums/Spasm/Pussy%E2%80%8B%28%E2%80%8BDe%E2%80%8B%29%E2%80%8BLuxe/547554. They look pretty classy, too.
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All they needed was a vocalist with a last name that begins with an "A"... then they'd be SPASM - Sherinian Portnoy A______ Sheehan MacALpine. It'd be a great name for a prog metal/rock band. Russel Allen? Mikael Åkerfeldt?
:clap:
That's awesome. Russell Allen is my favorite vocalist these days, and MP already worked with him in AMOB. Apparently there already is a band called Spasm: https://www.metal-archives.com/albums/Spasm/Pussy%E2%80%8B%28%E2%80%8BDe%E2%80%8B%29%E2%80%8BLuxe/547554. They look pretty classy, too.
The new SPASM could write a track called "Eat My Ass And Balls" and fit right in. :metal
-Marc.
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But here's the thing: Given that they have 3 guitarists, they easily could have a smoother transition there if they wanted to. TDS ends with crazy soloing and then the "dugga-dugga-dun-da-dun-da-dun-WAH" riff. You don't need 3 guitars to do that, even if you want to layer a second part under the solo. You can just have one or two guitars drop out at that part and while you have that solo section going on, and that player (or those two players) then either swaps guitars or detunes during that section. Then after the ending riff of TDS, the guitar or two guitars that dropped out can either come in with the same riff in the new key so that it basically modulates the song to the new key, or just go right to the main riff (I would prefer the former). Then the other guitar (or two guitars) that finished TDS can drop out and tune to the new key.
Yeah, I thought about that too.. And it reminded me of this yt video where the 12ss is shortened in 12 minutes, where that transition is very similar to what you're saying: https://youtu.be/0SsYVXTiGGw?t=223
Mike is used to playing LONG pieces straight through with minimal stoppage (e.g., The Whirlwind, Six Degrees)
I don't know about the first one, but SDoIT has a lot of stoppage, at least for the drummer.. If we count Overture (which I think DT only played it once), there you start having a lot of moments where not only the drums are very basic and (relatively) easy to play, but also where there are entire sections with no drumming at all..
If we skip it (which is what they almost always have done) and don't count the last two minutes of the song, which unlike what most people think I do *admit* is part of the song just like everything else in it, you only have 33 minutes of song.. Even less if you consider the two minutes in GK that Portnoy doesn't even play (and when he does it, again, it's very simple what he does).. So that's a lot of break for him, having in mind also that wiht DT he used to play not only their epics tunes but also two or three song in a row only for the sake of it.. Two minutes of not playing at all within a 33 minute song is really something if you think of that.. So there's all this too..
And even if it were a song of non-stop during 42 minutes, the 12SS has over 50 minutes, and, even more important, it's not only "a heavy" but *the heaviest* and instrumentally (thus physically) most demanding saga DT has.... while SDoIT is a prog/symphonic rock song with barely a few sections that are hard to play and physically exhausting..
24 minutes of playing two of the most hard and physically demanding 10 minute DT songs without taking a single break between... I think that deserves at least a billion of these ones: :clap:
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Not getting my hopes up for that. The guys from Haken and Gilette are all gainfully employed.
Honestly, I've given up hope for a Portnoy prog band that isn't just some retread of the Neal Morse brand. Portnoy, Sherinian, MacAlpine, Sheenan was the lineup that could have done that (only needed a good vocalist), and apparently no one was interested after that initial tour.
All they needed was a vocalist with a last name that begins with an "A"... then they'd be SPASM - Sherinian Portnoy A______ Sheehan MacAlpine. It'd be a great name for a prog metal/rock band. Russel Allen? Mikael Åkerfeldt?
But it seems like that ship may have sailed, and Mike gets to play with Billy in TWD anyway, so it's up to whether or not DS and TM would be willing to do something again.
-Marc.
The PSMS project was fun and I was also expecting a studio album from them, don't know what happened there. However, I'm kinda relieved this never got to an official band because (very unpopular opinion here) I just can't stand Billy Sheehan's playing/tone (and I'm a bassist). He has a very unique style and I admire him for working hard to get his own style of playing, but just don't like it at all. And his tone really sucks imo.
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The PSMS project was fun and I was also expecting a studio album from them, don't know what happened there. However, I'm kinda relieved this never got to an official band because (very unpopular opinion here) I just can't stand Billy Sheehan's playing/tone (and I'm a bassist). He has a very unique style and I admire him for working hard to get his own style of playing, but just don't like it at all. And his tone really sucks imo.
I really like both his playing and tone in Niacin.
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MP has confused me with this project of his (Shattered Fortress). First it was just supposed to be a birthday bash. Then it extended to another date, and then a few dates. At this point, why not make it a real band? What's MP's goal with this? If there is no goal, then shouldn't the cruise and birthday bash been...it? A complete one and done?
I don't understand what he's trying to do. A bunch of you corrected me and pointed me toward something (I forget now) where MP says he doesn't want to do a progressive metal band in the vein of DT going forward. Ok, so if that's the case, why is he doing more gigs as Shattered Fortress?
At this point, I feel he either has to just devote himself to making "Shattered Fortress" a real band in the style of Dream Theater, or just let it go by the wayside. He's probably signed contracts for these additional gigs, so if so, fulfill them, but let this die. Stringing it out further only gives credence to the belief he's trying to do a prog metal band again.
Personally, I think he should embrace his legacy. Take the Dream Theater catalog through Black Clouds, use that as a base, and put together a REAL band of musicians with an operatic singer, and move forward. I think "Shattered Fortress" is a little lame for a band name, but I am sure he could think of something else. This way, MP can embrace his past and move forward at the same time in the genre he's known for, with an actual band.
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MP has confused me with this project of his (Shattered Fortress). First it was just supposed to be a birthday bash. Then it extended to another date, and then a few dates. At this point, why not make it a real band? What's MP's goal with this? If there is no goal, then shouldn't the cruise and birthday bash been...it? A complete one and done?
I don't understand what he's trying to do. A bunch of you corrected me and pointed me toward something (I forget now) where MP says he doesn't want to do a progressive metal band in the vein of DT going forward. Ok, so if that's the case, why is he doing more gigs as Shattered Fortress?
At this point, I feel he either has to just devote himself to making "Shattered Fortress" a real band in the style of Dream Theater, or just let it go by the wayside. He's probably signed contracts for these additional gigs, so if so, fulfill them, but let this die. Stringing it out further only gives credence to the belief he's trying to do a prog metal band again.
Personally, I think he should embrace his legacy. Take the Dream Theater catalog through Black Clouds, use that as a base, and put together a REAL band of musicians with an operatic singer, and move forward. I think "Shattered Fortress" is a little lame for a band name, but I am sure he could think of something else. This way, MP can embrace his past and move forward at the same time in the genre he's known for, with an actual band.
Why not, but forget about the operatic singer, I think he's done with that.
B.Lee
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MP has confused me with this project of his (Shattered Fortress). First it was just supposed to be a birthday bash. Then it extended to another date, and then a few dates. At this point, why not make it a real band? What's MP's goal with this? If there is no goal, then shouldn't the cruise and birthday bash been...it? A complete one and done?
I don't understand what he's trying to do. A bunch of you corrected me and pointed me toward something (I forget now) where MP says he doesn't want to do a progressive metal band in the vein of DT going forward. Ok, so if that's the case, why is he doing more gigs as Shattered Fortress?
At this point, I feel he either has to just devote himself to making "Shattered Fortress" a real band in the style of Dream Theater, or just let it go by the wayside. He's probably signed contracts for these additional gigs, so if so, fulfill them, but let this die. Stringing it out further only gives credence to the belief he's trying to do a prog metal band again.
Personally, I think he should embrace his legacy. Take the Dream Theater catalog through Black Clouds, use that as a base, and put together a REAL band of musicians with an operatic singer, and move forward. I think "Shattered Fortress" is a little lame for a band name, but I am sure he could think of something else. This way, MP can embrace his past and move forward at the same time in the genre he's known for, with an actual band.
I don´t think it´s gonna happen. The whole idea of playing the AA Suite is to celebrate his 50th Birthday and finally play it in full...he´ll play a handful of dates and then can it.
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MP has confused me with this project of his (Shattered Fortress). First it was just supposed to be a birthday bash. Then it extended to another date, and then a few dates. At this point, why not make it a real band? What's MP's goal with this? If there is no goal, then shouldn't the cruise and birthday bash been...it? A complete one and done?
I don't remember whether he first announced it as ONLY the birthday bash and then announced the added dates, or if the initial announcement was that he was doing a limited run of dates, beginning with the birthday bash. But it seems that the intent was simply this: In connection with his birthday, he planned to do a limited run of dates to play the 12 step suite in its entirety, since that had never been done, so he was assembling a project band for that purpose. Really, it's not unlike other limited projects he has done, like Yellow Matter Custard, the Rush Tribute, etc. But the intent all along seems to have been that it was for a small number of dates and not just the birthday bash. I could be mistaken, but I seem to have a vague recollection that he even affirmatively said he does NOT plan to have this turn into a more permanent band.
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MP has confused me with this project of his (Shattered Fortress). First it was just supposed to be a birthday bash. Then it extended to another date, and then a few dates. At this point, why not make it a real band? What's MP's goal with this? If there is no goal, then shouldn't the cruise and birthday bash been...it? A complete one and done?
I don't understand what he's trying to do. A bunch of you corrected me and pointed me toward something (I forget now) where MP says he doesn't want to do a progressive metal band in the vein of DT going forward. Ok, so if that's the case, why is he doing more gigs as Shattered Fortress?
At this point, I feel he either has to just devote himself to making "Shattered Fortress" a real band in the style of Dream Theater, or just let it go by the wayside. He's probably signed contracts for these additional gigs, so if so, fulfill them, but let this die. Stringing it out further only gives credence to the belief he's trying to do a prog metal band again.
Personally, I think he should embrace his legacy. Take the Dream Theater catalog through Black Clouds, use that as a base, and put together a REAL band of musicians with an operatic singer, and move forward. I think "Shattered Fortress" is a little lame for a band name, but I am sure he could think of something else. This way, MP can embrace his past and move forward at the same time in the genre he's known for, with an actual band.
I don't understand this position. I mean, "I understand it", but it doesn't really make any sense, except to the person making it. I can absolutely see not wanting to do something full time - or with the full time commitment that a standing band would require - but also wanting to explore the work more than a "one-off" would allow. He's never played that in it's entirely before, and so it hasn't "breathed" yet, or perhaps "taken life". A series of shows might allow that to happen in an organic way, but it certainly doesn't mean it's his full time gig or even a "regression" to his past life. It's one set of songs. He's entitled to get what he wants out of that performance.
EDIT: What Bosk said. My recollection is similar to his.
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Well, just to be hypothetical, it would seem if MP wanted to make this a full time band, he'd need to either break up Haken or find new members for his band.
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MP has confused me with this project of his (Shattered Fortress). First it was just supposed to be a birthday bash. Then it extended to another date, and then a few dates. At this point, why not make it a real band? What's MP's goal with this? If there is no goal, then shouldn't the cruise and birthday bash been...it? A complete one and done?
I don't understand what he's trying to do. A bunch of you corrected me and pointed me toward something (I forget now) where MP says he doesn't want to do a progressive metal band in the vein of DT going forward. Ok, so if that's the case, why is he doing more gigs as Shattered Fortress?
At this point, I feel he either has to just devote himself to making "Shattered Fortress" a real band in the style of Dream Theater, or just let it go by the wayside. He's probably signed contracts for these additional gigs, so if so, fulfill them, but let this die. Stringing it out further only gives credence to the belief he's trying to do a prog metal band again.
Personally, I think he should embrace his legacy. Take the Dream Theater catalog through Black Clouds, use that as a base, and put together a REAL band of musicians with an operatic singer, and move forward. I think "Shattered Fortress" is a little lame for a band name, but I am sure he could think of something else. This way, MP can embrace his past and move forward at the same time in the genre he's known for, with an actual band.
I think the goal was for him to be able to perform a deeply personal piece of music he wrote (at least lyrically) and share it with fans in the manner it was originally intended. Given that there's likely not to be an official live release, doing a handful of dates at mostly major festivals makes sense. There's probably a close to 0% chance that this Shattered Fortress band becomes anything more, given that Haken is pretty much a full time gig and it'd be a bit awkward for all of them but one to get up and join another project playing the same style of music. Mike's said he doesn't want to do another progressive metal band, and honestly I've been happier with him enjoying various aspects of his musical tastes in different projects (Winery Dogs, Flying Colors, Transatlantic) than I would be if he had slapped together another prog metal band to lead.
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The thing that is puzzling to me is that for a person who was so in charge of every aspect of DT (in his words), wrote lyrics and melodies for DT for over 25 years would suddenly stop. He continually "reminds" us that he wrote so many of the melodies but in the 6+ years since he left DT he hasn't really been involved in that. In all of the bands he is in, he is not the principal songwriter.
I understand him wanting to coast for a while and not want to have people compare his new venture to DT, but again it's been 6+ years and don't you think a control freak like him would want to be back in charge of a band?
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Maybe he learnt his lesson, or simply tried a more relaxing approach and found out it would work.
I make an example with work, I spent years in customer service answering to e-mails. I really loved reply to e-mail, when I changed work and there was both e-mail and chat support, I didn't want anything to do with the chat... and then I did it anyway and found out I liked it and now at the same job, given the chance, I would never switch to e-mail support again.
It can be the same for Mike. He controlled so much of DT that he got burnt out and "lost" the band, and either he doesn't want to find himself in the same position again, or simply found out that it's not so bad to be "just the drummer".
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The thing that is puzzling to me is that for a person who was so in charge of every aspect of DT (in his words), wrote lyrics and melodies for DT for over 25 years would suddenly stop. He continually "reminds" us that he wrote so many of the melodies
He didn't write "so many melodies" at all.. He did write lyrics and sort of 'directed' the compositions as they were happening (and mostly done only by JP and any of the keyboardists).. But melodies?... Yeah, which ones?... "Open your eyes / And turn off your mind" or "Look in the mirror / What do you see?"? I'm glad he didn't do that so often.. ;D
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He wrote the vocal melodies for the songs to which he wrote lyrics.
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I remember a JR interview in which he said that ever since he joined the band he and JP did most of music and melodies.
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MP has confused me with this project of his (Shattered Fortress). First it was just supposed to be a birthday bash. Then it extended to another date, and then a few dates. At this point, why not make it a real band? What's MP's goal with this? If there is no goal, then shouldn't the cruise and birthday bash been...it? A complete one and done?
IIRC, originally it was supposed to just be the birthday bash and that was it. But then there were promoters of these festivals or whatever that got wind of TSF and wanted it as well. So where feasible, MP figured why not since the guys will have already learned the music?
Why not, but forget about the operatic singer, I think he's done with that.
I'd love to see him do another prog-metal band, but yeah, forget about an operatic singer.
The thing that is puzzling to me is that for a person who was so in charge of every aspect of DT (in his words), wrote lyrics and melodies for DT for over 25 years would suddenly stop. He continually "reminds" us that he wrote so many of the melodies but in the 6+ years since he left DT he hasn't really been involved in that. In all of the bands he is in, he is not the principal songwriter.
MP has never been the principal songwriter, but he has most definitely contributed musical ideas. Not as much as JP or JR, but he has. And that in addition to the aforementioned vocal melodies to all the songs he wrote lyrics for, as well as the song arrangements. I'd imagine the same is true for every single band/project he's been involved in where he is not simply a hired hand (like he was with A7X and originally with Neal Morse).
don't you think a control freak like him would want to be back in charge of a band?
Actually it wasn't long ago that he did an interview (sorry, I don't recall where), where he mentioned that he did miss overseeing everything to the extent that he did in DT. Will he ever get to do that again? Who knows. Even he doesn't.
He didn't write "so many melodies" at all.. He did write lyrics and sort of 'directed' the compositions as they were happening (and mostly done only by JP and any of the keyboardists).. But melodies?... Yeah, which ones?... "Open your eyes / And turn off your mind" or "Look in the mirror / What do you see?"? I'm glad he didn't do that so often.. ;D
See my comment above. But while I haven't a clue as to the vast majority of the actual songs he contributed music to, I do know for a fact that the main riff in ARoP came from him. And while it's credited to Dream Theater, New Millennium was actually written only by MP, JM and DS - for whatever reason, JP wasn't around when it was written, but was still given credit. Those are only two examples and they might not be fan favorite songs, but that doesn't mean he didn't have a hand in contributed actual melodies that would be counted as "song writing". As I said before, it just wasn't as much as what JP and JR did.
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Thanks everyone, on the clarification of what MP's original intent with Shattered Fortress was. I don't follow everything as closely as many of you do, so I appreciate the info.
All that said, I personally feel Mike is pissing away his career with all these projects. Given his personality, I get it, to a degree. But to build up a catalog like he did with Dream Theater, be known for one of prog metals most outstanding drummers and creative forces, and then just walk away from it completely, makes me bummed, as a fan.
I don't blame him for wanting to pursue other things like he has. But he's become a bit of a nomad, and almost has turned into that dude that you know will show up and play with whoever. I don't want to insult fans by naming names of other musicians, but you know what I mean -- those guys that are on every project, whatever they can get.
In today's music industry, I guess you do what you do to make ends meet. But I still can't shake the feeling that Mike is wasting his time, when he should be embracing what made him what he is -- go use that catalog you helped create, form a new band, and be a prog metal band again. Something steady and full-on for the next 15 years. And use the downtime on your side projects.
Again, I realize that this is just what I would like to see as a fan. But I like to think I know a bit about how the industry works and that Mike has really diverse interests. If he's happy, that's great. But I just don't think he's maximizing his potential -- both as a musician and artist, and as a businessman.
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One question would be, what do you realistically expect?
Mike will never....EVER.....be in a band as big as DT unless he's a hired hand or brought into a previously established band. It has nothing to do with talent, but it's basically impossible for a prog band of any kind to be formed today and reach large levels of success. The best he'll get is what Flying Colors or Winery Dogs achieved. He can assemble the best musicians in the world, write amazing songs, and it still won't amount to much. That's just how the music industry is right now.
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One question would be, what do you realistically expect?
Mike will never....EVER.....be in a band as big as DT unless he's a hired hand or brought into a previously established band. It has nothing to do with talent, but it's basically impossible for a prog band of any kind to be formed today and reach large levels of success. The best he'll get is what Flying Colors or Winery Dogs achieved. He can assemble the best musicians in the world, write amazing songs, and it still won't amount to much. That's just how the music industry is right now.
I guess what I expect is for him to embrace his own legacy. He's a progressive metal icon, yet doesn't play progressive metal any longer on a regular basis. That makes no sense. So while you're absolutely spot-on that he will never be able to build a band that has the success like Dream Theater has again, he could build a band within that artistic space to recapture a bit of the genre that helped define him as a musician.
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I dunno dude. I'm a musician myself. I literally cannot bring myself to play one genre constantly. If I was in one type of band for as long as MP was, I'd want to do other things too. He's done A LOT of prog metal. Like a ton. It'd be a bit sad if he never wanted to do anything else.
It's not like he couldn't. He obviously can. He's choosing not to because this is what he wants to do.
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I dunno dude. I'm a musician myself. I literally cannot bring myself to play one genre constantly. If I was in one type of band for as long as MP was, I'd want to do other things too. He's done A LOT of prog metal. Like a ton. It'd be a bit sad if he never wanted to do anything else.
It's not like he couldn't. He obviously can. He's choosing not to because this is what he wants to do.
I hear ya. I'm not saying I think he should ONLY do prog metal. But its odd to me that someone who built his name in the genre of prog metal doesn't play it any longer. You're right, if he's choosing to not do it, because he doesn't really want to, and doesn't have to, then that's good for him. But as a fan, it still bothers me that someone so revered in the prog metal genre has no band in which to play that style of music any more. That's all I'm saying.
And I think he could do better, money-wise, in the long run, if he did, using the DT back catalog to beef up a new band's output, particularly if that new band is really good, and made up of outstanding songwriters and musicians. But again, that's the fan and slightly informed about the music industry person in me talking. If MP is happy, then that is good. I just miss seeing him play prog metal.
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I'm always scratching my head at comments like "why doesn't MP just get some good musicians and he's good to go". Good songwriters don't grow on trees. Look at TWD; it's pretty obvious that most of the songs are built on Kotzen's substrate. And even then, despite the pristine lineup (Portnoy, Kotzen, Sheehan), the band is only marginally successful.
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I'm always scratching my head at comments like "why doesn't MP just get some good musicians and he's good to go". Good songwriters don't grow on trees. Look at TWD; it's pretty obvious that most of the songs are built on Kotzen's substrate. And even then, despite the pristine lineup (Portnoy, Kotzen, Sheehan), the band is only marginally successful.
No one said they did, Rumbo. You can scratch your head at the comment, but don't insinuate just because someone would like to see something, that it means they are blind to the difficulty factor.
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There couldn't be any more boring music than TWD.
MP hasn't done a single thing I've been interested in since he left. Even his Metal Allegience, which should appeal to me, is nothing but a cover band so big woops. I loved being a fan of MP and him being in my favorite band. I loved what he brought to the fans and his performances.
He's basically fallen off the edge of the world to me.
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All that said, I personally feel Mike is pissing away his career with all these projects. Given his personality, I get it, to a degree. But to build up a catalog like he did with Dream Theater, be known for one of prog metals most outstanding drummers and creative forces, and then just walk away from it completely, makes me bummed, as a fan.
I don't blame him for wanting to pursue other things like he has. But he's become a bit of a nomad, and almost has turned into that dude that you know will show up and play with whoever. I don't want to insult fans by naming names of other musicians, but you know what I mean -- those guys that are on every project, whatever they can get.
In today's music industry, I guess you do what you do to make ends meet. But I still can't shake the feeling that Mike is wasting his time, when he should be embracing what made him what he is -- go use that catalog you helped create, form a new band, and be a prog metal band again. Something steady and full-on for the next 15 years. And use the downtime on your side projects.
If I didn't understand the position before, then this is an alien language. "Pissing away"?? In six years he's done three legendary albums with Transatlantic, two legendary albums with Flying Colors, and two pretty decent records with The Winery Dogs. Not to mention the work with the Neal Morse Band. None is "prog metal", I grant you, but I for one don't care about genre.
That you don't like it doesn't mean he's "pissing his career" away. And as much as I love him in DT (I've been a fan since Images and Words) if it means giving that up, I'm out. He should stay as he is.
And while I'm no psychologist, I think he's still occupied. Whether it's writing liner notes for Ytsejam releases, or scripting setlists (which I know for a fact he still has a hand in if not total control) he's doing a lot more little things for a lot more projects, and I wouldn't be surprised at all if that scratched the itch.
I think of all the things you can say about Mike Portnoy - some great, some maybe not - the one thing you CAN'T say is that he doesn't do what he wants to do. Let him live his career as he sees fit. Then listen if you so choose. I am more than happy with his output in the last six years.
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In six years he's done three legendary albums with Transatlantic, two legendary albums with Flying Colors,
Legendary? Flying Colors??
He might as well be recording with Barry Manilow.
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I dunno dude. I'm a musician myself. I literally cannot bring myself to play one genre constantly. If I was in one type of band for as long as MP was, I'd want to do other things too. He's done A LOT of prog metal. Like a ton. It'd be a bit sad if he never wanted to do anything else.
It's not like he couldn't. He obviously can. He's choosing not to because this is what he wants to do.
I hear ya. I'm not saying I think he should ONLY do prog metal. But its odd to me that someone who built his name in the genre of prog metal doesn't play it any longer. You're right, if he's choosing to not do it, because he doesn't really want to, and doesn't have to, then that's good for him. But as a fan, it still bothers me that someone so revered in the prog metal genre has no band in which to play that style of music any more. That's all I'm saying.
And I think he could do better, money-wise, in the long run, if he did, using the DT back catalog to beef up a new band's output, particularly if that new band is really good, and made up of outstanding songwriters and musicians. But again, that's the fan and slightly informed about the music industry person in me talking. If MP is happy, then that is good. I just miss seeing him play prog metal.
I'm lost...
Are you suggesting that:
Neal Morse
Roine Stolt
Pete Trewavas
Steve Morse
Dave LaRue
Richie Kotzen
Billy Sheehan
Tony MacAlpine
Derek Sherinian
... are not "really good" or are not "outstanding songwriters and musicians"? I might even be tempted to say that he's playing with musicians that are at LEAST as good as the one's he played with in DT.
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Legendary is hyperbolic, but I do love the Flying Colors albums.
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If I didn't understand the position before, then this is an alien language.
I speak fluent Martian, sorry. :lol
"Pissing away"?? In six years he's done three legendary albums with Transatlantic, two legendary albums with Flying Colors, and two pretty decent records with The Winery Dogs. Not to mention the work with the Neal Morse Band. None is "prog metal", I grant you, but I for one don't care about genre.
That you don't like it doesn't mean he's "pissing his career" away. And as much as I love him in DT (I've been a fan since Images and Words) if it means giving that up, I'm out. He should stay as he is.
"Pissing away" may have been too strong a phrase. But one piece of advice a mentor once gave to me was this: If you're great a portion of what you do, don't take it for granted. While you are driven to improve in other areas, don't forget about your bread and butter and give that equal attention.
This is where I think Mike is "failing." the one thing he's been known for by the masses -- he's not doing it any longer. He's not playing prog metal.
Also, in regard to the albums, well, therein is part of our difference -- I'm not really impressed with anything he's done post-DT. I'm sorta just like TAC in that aspect.
And while I'm no psychologist, I think he's still occupied. Whether it's writing liner notes for Ytsejam releases, or scripting setlists (which I know for a fact he still has a hand in if not total control) he's doing a lot more little things for a lot more projects, and I wouldn't be surprised at all if that scratched the itch.
I think of all the things you can say about Mike Portnoy - some great, some maybe not - the one thing you CAN'T say is that he doesn't do what he wants to do. Let him live his career as he sees fit. Then listen if you so choose. I am more than happy with his output in the last six years.
For sure, he's busy. But he's busy doing everything but the thing he was best at...
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Also, let's be honest here, MP isn't exactly the hottest commodity these days. Young talent will not exactly be flocking towards a 50-year old drummer who is often accused of rehashing the same old fills, and whose past with DT would clearly totally overshadow any new band (A7X got a nice taste of that). I think there is a reason why most of his projects are with fogeys as old as he is.
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I'm lost...
GPS. Never need a map again. ;D
Are you suggesting that:
Neal Morse
Roine Stolt
Pete Trewavas
Steve Morse
Dave LaRue
Richie Kotzen
Billy Sheehan
Tony MacAlpine
Derek Sherinian
... are not "really good" or are not "outstanding songwriters and musicians"? I might even be tempted to say that he's playing with musicians that are at LEAST as good as the one's he played with in DT.
Not suggesting that at all. AT ALL. But MP hasn't constructed a progressive metal band with them. That's what I was saying -- create a progressive metal band with musicians that are great songwriters, and proceed from there. He hasn't done that in prog metal since DT (the project with MacAlpine doesn't count -- I'm talking a real, full time band).
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Also, let's be honest here, MP isn't exactly the hottest commodity these days. Young talent will not exactly be flocking towards a 50-year old drummer who is often accused of rehashing the same old fills, and whose past with DT would clearly totally overshadow any new band (A7X got a nice taste of that).
That's true, rumbo. But you don't necessarily need "young" talent. Just talent. Look at how the Creed guys found Myles Kennedy and formed Alter Bridge. Look how Queensryche found Todd La Torre. both those dudes were into their 40s. You don't have to go young to find talent. You get the right mix of people, experience, and ability, good things can happen.
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All that said, I personally feel Mike is pissing away his career with all these projects. Given his personality, I get it, to a degree. But to build up a catalog like he did with Dream Theater, be known for one of prog metals most outstanding drummers and creative forces, and then just walk away from it completely, makes me bummed, as a fan.
I don't blame him for wanting to pursue other things like he has. But he's become a bit of a nomad, and almost has turned into that dude that you know will show up and play with whoever. I don't want to insult fans by naming names of other musicians, but you know what I mean -- those guys that are on every project, whatever they can get.
In today's music industry, I guess you do what you do to make ends meet. But I still can't shake the feeling that Mike is wasting his time, when he should be embracing what made him what he is -- go use that catalog you helped create, form a new band, and be a prog metal band again. Something steady and full-on for the next 15 years. And use the downtime on your side projects.
Again, I realize that this is just what I would like to see as a fan. But I like to think I know a bit about how the industry works and that Mike has really diverse interests. If he's happy, that's great. But I just don't think he's maximizing his potential -- both as a musician and artist, and as a businessman.
I agree 100% with what you're saying. MP literally made his career playing prog metal with DT and, while he wanted/deserved a break from the genere and the DT guys in general, not coming back to the genere that made you the iconic drummer you are is a bad move, imo.
Like said in the quote below, MP has now turned into the "will play anything with anybody" kind of musician, and that's not always a good thing. He's in so many bands that he can't make one band have the growth it should be. People can talk about how good the FC albums are or whatever, but remember that they had like 10 shows for their last tour, and that's it. He really needs to gather a group of very good musicians who aren't part of a full time band and actually put effort on a band to have great success in the long term.
Also, seems like most MP die hard fans these days buy his albums not because they like his bands that much, but because he's MP and... you know... MP... #MPWarriors.
In six years he's done three legendary albums with Transatlantic, two legendary albums with Flying Colors, and two pretty decent records with The Winery Dogs.
And while I'm no psychologist, I think he's still occupied. Whether it's writing liner notes for Ytsejam releases, or scripting setlists (which I know for a fact he still has a hand in if not total control) he's doing a lot more little things for a lot more projects, and I wouldn't be surprised at all if that scratched the itch.
Unless you're counting the live albums, he hasn't done 3 albums with Transatlantic in the last 6 years. The only 2 TA studio albums released in that period were The Whirlwind and Kaleidoscope and, from the two, TW was recorded before Mike left DT, so he only made one studio album with TA during the last 6 years.
Also, he's not allowed to release material for Ytsejam Records nor he has done it since leaving DT, so you should get your facts straight before posting.
For sure, he's busy. But he's busy doing everything but the thing he was best at...
This sums it up very well.
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He really needs to gather a group of very good musicians who aren't part of a full time band and actually put effort on a band to have great success in the long term.
Interested in the language used here. Why does he "need" to do that?
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He really needs to do what he wants to do... just like the guys in Dream Theater need to do what they want to do.
If I like it I like it... but as a fan of the man or band I should nottake anything for granted.
It's their lives, let them live as they want not as I want.... if they record a polka-punk record I have the opportunity to buy it or not. But if it is what they really want to do who am I to tell them they should not do it?
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While these guys aren't dedicated totally to it, I would think Winery Dogs has the best chance of being successful. That style of music reaches a lot of people (compared to prog) and that's one talented band with two solid albums.
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In six years he's done three legendary albums with Transatlantic, two legendary albums with Flying Colors, and two pretty decent records with The Winery Dogs.
And while I'm no psychologist, I think he's still occupied. Whether it's writing liner notes for Ytsejam releases, or scripting setlists (which I know for a fact he still has a hand in if not total control) he's doing a lot more little things for a lot more projects, and I wouldn't be surprised at all if that scratched the itch.
Unless you're counting the live albums, he hasn't done 3 albums with Transatlantic in the last 6 years. The only 2 TA studio albums released in that period were The Whirlwind and Kaleidoscope and, from the two, TW was recorded before Mike left DT, so he only made one studio album with TA during the last 6 years.
Also, he's not allowed to release material for Ytsejam Records nor he has done it since leaving DT, so you should get your facts straight before posting.
No need for the snotty response gzarruk. Stadler's more than aware that there haven't been any YJR releases since MP left. He's merely citing it as one example of what MP has done over the years.
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"Pissing away" may have been too strong a phrase. But one piece of advice a mentor once gave to me was this: If you're great a portion of what you do, don't take it for granted. While you are driven to improve in other areas, don't forget about your bread and butter and give that equal attention.
This is where I think Mike is "failing." the one thing he's been known for by the masses -- he's not doing it any longer. He's not playing prog metal.
Also, in regard to the albums, well, therein is part of our difference -- I'm not really impressed with anything he's done post-DT. I'm sorta just like TAC in that aspect.
Okay, but that you're not impressed proves my point. I listen to FC and TA FAR more than I do anything from DT at this point. That tells me he's known for DRUMMING, not "PROG METAL DRUMMING". I have been a DT fan since Images and Words (got it on release) and I pretty much say I've never once thought "Wow, this is pretty good PROG METAL. Mike sure is a great PROG METAL drummer. I think I'm going to listen to more PROG METAL."
It's all MUSIC.
For sure, he's busy. But he's busy doing everything but the thing he was best at...
Of course he is. He's still DRUMMING. He's still making MUSIC. Plus he's growing as a human being. That to me is the biggest part of this, not what us fans might want to hear.
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Like said in the quote below, MP has now turned into the "will play anything with anybody" kind of musician, and that's not always a good thing. He's in so many bands that he can't make one band have the growth it should be. People can talk about how good the FC albums are or whatever, but remember that they had like 10 shows for their last tour, and that's it. He really needs to gather a group of very good musicians who aren't part of a full time band and actually put effort on a band to have great success in the long term.
That's a different point than "he has to do PROG METAL to be relevant.". I don't disagree that a permanent band unit would be a different dynamic, but I would also argue that The Neal Morse Band probably qualifies in that regard, as does The Winery Dogs.
Also, seems like most MP die hard fans these days buy his albums not because they like his bands that much, but because he's MP and... you know... MP... #MPWarriors.
You've talked to all MP die hard fans? Because I don't remember getting the questionnaire to fill out... ;)
Unless you're counting the live albums, he hasn't done 3 albums with Transatlantic in the last 6 years. The only 2 TA studio albums released in that period were The Whirlwind and Kaleidoscope and, from the two, TW was recorded before Mike left DT, so he only made one studio album with TA during the last 6 years.
Also, he's not allowed to release material for Ytsejam Records nor he has done it since leaving DT, so you should get your facts straight before posting.
You're right about TA (I mistakenly counted the live albums, but that's not what I was talking about, so you're right there) but you should cool your jets on the "I gotcha's" until you're dead nuts right, because the "setlists/Ytsejam" comment was about what he did while in DT. I know full well he hasn't - and CAN'T, by agreement - release Ytsejam stuff since the split. No need to make this personal, because I'll bury you when it comes to "getting facts straight", if that's the way this is going to go.
For sure, he's busy. But he's busy doing everything but the thing he was best at...
This sums it up very well.
Playing drums? Making music? Communicating with fans? Touching people with his art? Creating lifelong memories for his closest fans? Ask anyone on the recent cruise if he's "still doing what he's best at".
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I think Mike is doing fine. Maybe he's not playing prog metal, but he was doing that for 25 years and wanted a break from it. No point in putting together yet another prog metal band when you can do many other things.
He's still playing for people, with some bands to bigger crowds and with others in clubs, most fans can still find at least some of his recent works enjoyable (I personally follow everything he does with Neal Morse), and overall he remained true to his connection with the fan base. He also kind of figured out how not to go too far with his online activity, which is a plus, there were some serious issues there several years ago.
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Okay, but that you're not impressed proves my point. I listen to FC and TA FAR more than I do anything from DT at this point. That tells me he's known for DRUMMING, not "PROG METAL DRUMMING". I have been a DT fan since Images and Words (got it on release) and I pretty much say I've never once thought "Wow, this is pretty good PROG METAL. Mike sure is a great PROG METAL drummer. I think I'm going to listen to more PROG METAL."
It's all MUSIC.
Dude, it's like you are hellbent to shut my opinion down. :lol Nothiing I said "proves your point." Just because you listen to FC and TA more than anything else from DT these days proves nothing in this discussion except for the fact you enjoy that music. The genre thing -- I never once said that Mike wasn't a good "drummer." I simply said Mike is identified by most people as the drummer of Dream Theater, which was and is, classified as a PROG METAL band.
Yes, it's all MUSIC. I agree with you. But that wasn't the point being made...
Of course he is. He's still DRUMMING. He's still making MUSIC. Plus he's growing as a human being. That to me is the biggest part of this, not what us fans might want to hear.
What are you, his shrink? :lol Comments like this drive me insane. No one said anything about him not growing as a person. You can grow as an individual, and still embrace your legacy. No one has said you can't do both.
I think Mike is doing fine. Maybe he's not playing prog metal, but he was doing that for 25 years and wanted a break from it. No point in putting together yet another prog metal band when you can do many other things.
He's still playing for people, with some bands to bigger crowds and with others in clubs, most fans can still find at least some of his recent works enjoyable (I personally follow everything he does with Neal Morse), and overall he remained true to his connection with the fan base. He also kind of figured out how not to go too far with his online activity, which is a plus, there were some serious issues there several years ago.
"Doing fine," sure. I am sure he is. And I couldn't argue against what you have said. But again I say -- he has walked away from creating and playing in the niche genre that he and his band once helped define (or at least really helped push it forward as an icon). If that's what he wants, that's fine, but for me personally, it is a head scratcher.
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I'm not sure MP doesn't want to play prog metal, it may simply be an area where he feels it will inevitably descend into a shit show if he were to go there. So, he gets his "safe" prog fixes by playing in the NM band and doing a small prog act here and there (PSMS and now 12SS), and those *already* start the comparisons to DT. So, he may simply choose to stay away, and I can't fault him.
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I'm not sure MP doesn't want to play prog metal, it may simply be an area where he feels it will inevitably descend into a shit show if he were to go there. So, he gets his "safe" prog fixes by playing in the NM band and doing a small prog act here and there (PSMS and now 12SS), and those *already* start the comparisons to DT. So, he may simply choose to stay away, and I can't fault him.
I have no idea whether that is true, but it certainly makes sense. He is going to get much harsher scrutiny, comparisons, and criticisms if he puts together a "prog metal" band than if he stayed away from that subgenre. No matter how good it ended up being, it would inevitably be compared to Dream Theater and would be panned when it inevitably fell short of that, and Mike Pornoy, not the band itself, would be the focus of all of that criticism.
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I'm not sure MP doesn't want to play prog metal, it may simply be an area where he feels it will inevitably descend into a shit show if he were to go there. So, he gets his "safe" prog fixes by playing in the NM band and doing a small prog act here and there (PSMS and now 12SS), and those *already* start the comparisons to DT. So, he may simply choose to stay away, and I can't fault him.
I have no idea whether that is true, but it certainly makes sense. He is going to get much harsher scrutiny, comparisons, and criticisms if he puts together a "prog metal" band than if he stayed away from that subgenre. No matter how good it ended up being, it would inevitably be compared to Dream Theater and would be panned when it inevitably fell short of that, and Mike Pornoy, not the band itself, would be the focus of all of that criticism.
All very true. Can't argue that at all, really. Looking at recent statements by MP and DT, to me, it just seems MP has come to the "conclusion" that while he loves prog metal, he doesn't want to do it outside of DT. And DT, at least from the question presented to them recently, has said MP is too busy with all his bands to devote to DT.
That, however, has me wondering...were DT making fun of MP, or were they sending a message to MP that if he got his priorities in order, he could guest or be a part of them in some way in the future. I guess time will tell, and obviously, a story for a different thread.
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I dunno dude. I'm a musician myself. I literally cannot bring myself to play one genre constantly. If I was in one type of band for as long as MP was, I'd want to do other things too. He's done A LOT of prog metal. Like a ton. It'd be a bit sad if he never wanted to do anything else.
It's not like he couldn't. He obviously can. He's choosing not to because this is what he wants to do.
I hear ya. I'm not saying I think he should ONLY do prog metal. But its odd to me that someone who built his name in the genre of prog metal doesn't play it any longer. You're right, if he's choosing to not do it, because he doesn't really want to, and doesn't have to, then that's good for him. But as a fan, it still bothers me that someone so revered in the prog metal genre has no band in which to play that style of music any more. That's all I'm saying.
And I think he could do better, money-wise, in the long run, if he did, using the DT back catalog to beef up a new band's output, particularly if that new band is really good, and made up of outstanding songwriters and musicians. But again, that's the fan and slightly informed about the music industry person in me talking. If MP is happy, then that is good. I just miss seeing him play prog metal.
I'm lost...
Are you suggesting that:
Neal Morse
Roine Stolt
Pete Trewavas
Steve Morse
Dave LaRue
Richie Kotzen
Billy Sheehan
Tony MacAlpine
Derek Sherinian
... are not "really good" or are not "outstanding songwriters and musicians"? I might even be tempted to say that he's playing with musicians that are at LEAST as good as the one's he played with in DT.
I'm gonna be completely honest here, and sorry if I offend anyone, but I do believe that everyone on that list has already written their best material - a long time ago, in a lot of cases.
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Mike's 50 years old. If he can get by just playing prog with his buddies, who happen to be world class musicians, and not grinding away full-time trying to make a dent in the music scene with a new band, more power to him. Sounds like a hell of a gig to me.
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And DT, at least from the question presented to them recently, has said MP is too busy with all his bands to devote to DT.
That, however, has me wondering...were DT making fun of MP, or were they sending a message to MP that if he got his priorities in order, he could guest or be a part of them in some way in the future. I guess time will tell, and obviously, a story for a different thread.
I can unequivocally tell you, that answer was simply a jocular way of deflecting the question, whose true answer is the same as ever: we have no plans to play with MP in any function relating to DT, and MM is the drummer until the band dissolves.
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Mike's 50 years old. If he can get by just playing prog with his buddies, who happen to be world class musicians, and not grinding away full-time trying to make a dent in the music scene with a new band, more power to him. Sounds like a hell of a gig to me.
That's what I'm thinking. MP also strikes me as a guy who is pretty money savvy, and I'm pretty sure his leading role in DT will have created more windfall for him than say other members in the band. So, if he played his cards right in the 25 years of DT, he shouldn't have to rely on these projects for his survival.
I'm gonna be completely honest here, and sorry if I offend anyone, but I do believe that everyone on that list has already written their best material - a long time ago, in a lot of cases.
*looks at list*
Yeah, I can agree with that.
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Okay, but that you're not impressed proves my point. I listen to FC and TA FAR more than I do anything from DT at this point. That tells me he's known for DRUMMING, not "PROG METAL DRUMMING". I have been a DT fan since Images and Words (got it on release) and I pretty much say I've never once thought "Wow, this is pretty good PROG METAL. Mike sure is a great PROG METAL drummer. I think I'm going to listen to more PROG METAL."
It's all MUSIC.
Dude, it's like you are hellbent to shut my opinion down. :lol Nothiing I said "proves your point." Just because you listen to FC and TA more than anything else from DT these days proves nothing in this discussion except for the fact you enjoy that music. The genre thing -- I never once said that Mike wasn't a good "drummer." I simply said Mike is identified by most people as the drummer of Dream Theater, which was and is, classified as a PROG METAL band.
Yes, it's all MUSIC. I agree with you. But that wasn't the point being made...
Uh yeah, kind of, I am. Because you're putting out your opinion as if it is fact, and you're basing your opinion on assumptions that aren't sustainable. The very reasons you dismiss my take on TA and FC is EXACTLY why you are wrong. I don't at all think that because Mike is best associated with Dream Theater necessarily allows you to draw any of the conclusions you did. That he played in a band that was best known for "PROG METAL" doesn't mean that's all he does or the best thing he does.
Is Sting's "best" the reggae punk of the Police? Is Peter Gabriel's best work the theatrical prog of Genesis? Phil is even a better example.
Probably the best example? Ritchie Blackmore. He is an artist truly and utterly doing what HE wants and what makes HIM happy. That I would love to hear him roar on Burn 180 more times across the planet, and put out another record akin to Rising or Bent Out Of Shape is not at all relevant. I saw him with Blackmore's Night not three months ago, with 500 others (490 dressed like dipshits from the year 1575) and he was happy, smiling, and he played stuff on guitar that I couldn't recreate in 100 years with three other people.
What are you, his shrink? :lol Comments like this drive me insane. No one said anything about him not growing as a person. You can grow as an individual, and still embrace your legacy. No one has said you can't do both.
Of course you can do both; but you don't NEED both. You don't need to embrace your legacy to grow. Peter Gabriel has played all of two Genesis songs - to my knowledge - in his solo career ("Back In NYC" on his first tour, and "I Know What I Like" all of once). Is he not "embracing his legacy"?
"Doing fine," sure. I am sure he is. And I couldn't argue against what you have said. But again I say -- he has walked away from creating and playing in the niche genre that he and his band once helped define (or at least really helped push it forward as an icon). If that's what he wants, that's fine, but for me personally, it is a head scratcher.
But the only thing that matter is "that's what he wants". He's the artist. He pursues his muse, and you can follow - or not - as you see fit.
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Mike's 50 years old. If he can get by just playing prog with his buddies, who happen to be world class musicians, and not grinding away full-time trying to make a dent in the music scene with a new band, more power to him. Sounds like a hell of a gig to me.
I've actually got two questions I want to ask Mike if I ever get to talk with him, and one of them is something like this: have you ever considered being the "band leader" for a headline, international act, ala a Lady Gaga, or Peter Gabriel. The kind of gig that Abe Laboriel, Jr. has. You're on call for the big summer stadium tour every two or three or even five years, but you have time to pursue your muses on the side. Nuno did this with Rhianna. Abe. Even Max Weinberg, though it seems that Bruce has really racheted up the touring in recent years.
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Stadler, I think I mostly agree with a lot of what you are saying. But you still don't need to be in "attack mode" on the issue. What was presented was clearly being presented as opinion and not fact, so you don't need to attack the arguments as if this is the P/R forum and someone is posting "fake news" as fact. While I get bristling at the notion of a fan telling a musician how they "need" to live their life (I get it because I tend to have the same visceral reaction against that type of posting), this isn't that. It's just an opinion on music. I suggest toning it down.
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Uh yeah, kind of, I am. Because you're putting out your opinion as if it is fact, and you're basing your opinion on assumptions that aren't sustainable. The very reasons you dismiss my take on TA and FC is EXACTLY why you are wrong. I don't at all think that because Mike is best associated with Dream Theater necessarily allows you to draw any of the conclusions you did. That he played in a band that was best known for "PROG METAL" doesn't mean that's all he does or the best thing he does.
How is putting one's opinion out there then construed as "fact." I have done no such thing. Nor would I. As I have said multiple times, I don't follow DT as closely as some others. Nor do I have any relationship with any of the members. So everything I said was opinion, unless otherwise stated. Yes, I state my opinion definitively, because I believe in what I say. If that bothers you, Stadler, honestly...too damn bad.
Your take on TA and FC had nothing to do with what I was trying to say. And just because YOU "don't think at all" what I said should be able to draw the conclusions I have, doesn't mean those conclusions are any less invalid as yours. We happen to disagree. Totally fine man. I don't have a problem with that. But don't disrespect me just because you don't like that I state my opinion firmly and disagree with it.
Edited to add -- if I at any point said (I haven't gone back to look) that "Mike NEEDS" to do something, as opposed to "I think Mike should because," or "As a fan, I'd like to see Mike do this," then my apologies. Because I also agree that fans stating that a musician needs to do something, as a definitive statement, is wrong. Not sure if I directly said that however.
In a nutshell, everything I posted was what I would like to see happen, as a fan. No more, no less. I do care about the artists I support too. So if Mike's REALLY happy (which I don't think he is, completely, without Dream Theater), then that's cool. But it doesn't change the fact of what I would like to see happen as a fan.
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Stadler, I think I mostly agree with a lot of what you are saying. But you still don't need to be in "attack mode" on the issue. What was presented was clearly being presented as opinion and not fact, so you don't need to attack the arguments as if this is the P/R forum and someone is posting "fake news" as fact. While I get bristling at the notion of a fan telling a musician how they "need" to live their life (I get it because I tend to have the same visceral reaction against that type of posting), this isn't that. It's just an opinion on music. I suggest toning it down.
Well, Mike's not here to defend himself, and if it was just "I like this better than that" fair point. But one can't just say any old thing and label it "OPINION!" and get a pass. To suggest that an artist - pursuing their muse as they see fit - is "pissing his life away", well, I think that's more than just "opinion".
Having said all that, you're the boss, I respect your views on matters like this, and I'll follow your suggestion.
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Well, Mike's not here to defend himself, and if it was just "I like this better than that" fair point. But one can't just say any old thing and label it "OPINION!" and get a pass. To suggest that an artist - pursuing their muse as they see fit - is "pissing his life away", well, I think that's more than just "opinion".
Having said all that, you're the boss, I respect your views on matters like this, and I'll follow your suggestion.
This is comical, Stadler. So because Mike isn't here to reply, you get to try and represent him yourself? LOL. "Pissing his life away" was strong. No doubt. But as a fan, yes, I do believe he's tarnished his legacy a bit in regard to progressive metal, and I'd like to see him reclaim it. And for the record -- THAT'S JUST AN OPINION. It can't BE any more than that, because I'm not Mike Portnoy, nor am I any of the people that represent him.
So for you to try and mislabel what I have said as me posting my OPINION as FACT, is not only dead wrong, but insulting. And borderline trolling. I'm happy to talk with you via PM if you'd prefer to hash it out that way. But I state my opinions definitively, and will not veer from that.
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Uh yeah, kind of, I am. Because you're putting out your opinion as if it is fact, and you're basing your opinion on assumptions that aren't sustainable. The very reasons you dismiss my take on TA and FC is EXACTLY why you are wrong. I don't at all think that because Mike is best associated with Dream Theater necessarily allows you to draw any of the conclusions you did. That he played in a band that was best known for "PROG METAL" doesn't mean that's all he does or the best thing he does.
How is putting one's opinion out there then construed as "fact." I have done no such thing. Nor would I. As I have said multiple times, I don't follow DT as closely as some others. Nor do I have any relationship with any of the members. So everything I said was opinion, unless otherwise stated. Yes, I state my opinion definitively, because I believe in what I say. If that bothers you, Stadler, honestly...too damn bad.
Your take on TA and FC had nothing to do with what I was trying to say. And just because YOU "don't think at all" what I said should be able to draw the conclusions I have, doesn't mean those conclusions are any less invalid as yours. We happen to disagree. Totally fine man. I don't have a problem with that. But don't disrespect me just because you don't like that I state my opinion firmly and disagree with it.
Edited to add -- if I at any point said (I haven't gone back to look) that "Mike NEEDS" to do something, as opposed to "I think Mike should because," or "As a fan, I'd like to see Mike do this," then my apologies. Because I also agree that fans stating that a musician needs to do something, as a definitive statement, is wrong. Not sure if I directly said that however.
In a nutshell, everything I posted was what I would like to see happen, as a fan. No more, no less. I do care about the artists I support too. So if Mike's REALLY happy (which I don't think he is, completely, without Dream Theater), then that's cool. But it doesn't change the fact of what I would like to see happen as a fan.
I didn't disrespect you because you stated your opinion firmly, nor because I disagreed with it. I respect strong opinions, and often advocate for opinions that differ from mine. For better or worse, and I'll take full responsibility for this, I drew the line at the point we presumed what was best for Mike.
I'm of the opinion that artists should make the music they want to make, period. And Mike's doing that, to the best of our knowledge, so it sort of renders opinions - not just yours, but all of ours - irrelevant on that point. I didn't at all take from your posts that it was "just what you wanted to see"; there's no need for the prog metal discussion, or the "pissing his life away" comments if it was just about what you wanted to see.
In any event, I respect your opinion, and you know mine.
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Respectfully, who are you to tell anyone that there's no need for items they've spoken about in their discussion? Quite frankly, that's not for you to decide. Those things were very much part of the discussion, until you side tracked it all. Check your PMs.
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Well, Mike's not here to defend himself, and if it was just "I like this better than that" fair point. But one can't just say any old thing and label it "OPINION!" and get a pass. To suggest that an artist - pursuing their muse as they see fit - is "pissing his life away", well, I think that's more than just "opinion".
Having said all that, you're the boss, I respect your views on matters like this, and I'll follow your suggestion.
This is comical, Stadler. So because Mike isn't here to reply, you get to try and represent him yourself? LOL. "Pissing his life away" was strong. No doubt. But as a fan, yes, I do believe he's tarnished his legacy a bit in regard to progressive metal, and I'd like to see him reclaim it. And for the record -- THAT'S JUST AN OPINION. It can't BE any more than that, because I'm not Mike Portnoy, nor am I any of the people that represent him.
So for you to try and mislabel what I have said as me posting my OPINION as FACT, is not only dead wrong, but insulting. And borderline trolling. I'm happy to talk with you via PM if you'd prefer to hash it out that way. But I state my opinions definitively, and will not veer from that.
You be you. I stand by my statements. I'm not speaking for Mike, nor would I, he's more than capable of speaking for himself (and I wouldn't bet my DT collection that he wouldn't have means to know of this conversation). I don't at all agree that anything can be said with a caveat of "only my opinion" and have it be valid. I cannot say "Scenes From a Memory is the greatest rap album of all time" and caveat it with "in my opinion". I took most offense to the line of reasoning that said "he's pissing his career away". You're entitled to like DT more than other things he's done (honestly, I love the stuff he's done, but my favorite MIKE album is still Images and Words) but I think it's fundamentally wrong to dictate to an artist what they should do. I'd LOVE to hear Billy Joel write new music, but that he doesn't is his call and his call only. I do not have the right - even with "in my opinion" - to say "he's wasting his talent". He's doing what he wants to do.
I have no interest in fighting with you. I'd rather enjoy our common bond of DT music.
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You be you. I stand by my statements. I'm not speaking for Mike, nor would I, he's more than capable of speaking for himself (and I wouldn't bet my DT collection that he wouldn't have means to know of this conversation). I don't at all agree that anything can be said with a caveat of "only my opinion" and have it be valid. I cannot say "Scenes From a Memory is the greatest rap album of all time" and caveat it with "in my opinion". I took most offense to the line of reasoning that said "he's pissing his career away". You're entitled to like DT more than other things he's done (honestly, I love the stuff he's done, but my favorite MIKE album is still Images and Words) but I think it's fundamentally wrong to dictate to an artist what they should do. I'd LOVE to hear Billy Joel write new music, but that he doesn't is his call and his call only. I do not have the right - even with "in my opinion" - to say "he's wasting his talent". He's doing what he wants to do.
I have no interest in fighting with you. I'd rather enjoy our common bond of DT music.
A statement of "In my opinion, Scenes from a Memory is the greatest rap album of all time," of course can't be valid - because it isn't a rap album. An opinion cannot trump fact. However, an opinion that an artist is not maximizing his or her career, legacy, and what he or she is capable of, is very much a VALID opinion. You may not LIKE that type of discussion (which you have admitted), but trolling someone who has put it out there isn't the right way to go about it either, Stadler.
Yes, fans DO have the right to express their OPINION that an artist is "wasting their talent," if they believe that. It's called being a fan. Now, I grant you, if I saw Mike, I would never offer that opinion in personal conversation unless he specifically asked me my thoughts on what he's doing. Then I'd explain it probably a lot more gently than I did above. But the message would then be the same.
But this, DTF, is a message board. This is where fans SHARE those opinions. And I suggest -- if you don't like where a fan's opinion on something goes, then simply don't reply, or reply to a different aspect of the conversation. Because trying to impose your own sense of morality on other people, particularly when what was expressed was well within the rules, is a mistake, and insulting of the rest of us in the community.
Here's to Mike Portnoy -- may he be living the life and career he really wants, with as much happiness as possible. Carpe Diem!
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You be you. I stand by my statements. I'm not speaking for Mike, nor would I, he's more than capable of speaking for himself (and I wouldn't bet my DT collection that he wouldn't have means to know of this conversation). I don't at all agree that anything can be said with a caveat of "only my opinion" and have it be valid. I cannot say "Scenes From a Memory is the greatest rap album of all time" and caveat it with "in my opinion". I took most offense to the line of reasoning that said "he's pissing his career away". You're entitled to like DT more than other things he's done (honestly, I love the stuff he's done, but my favorite MIKE album is still Images and Words) but I think it's fundamentally wrong to dictate to an artist what they should do. I'd LOVE to hear Billy Joel write new music, but that he doesn't is his call and his call only. I do not have the right - even with "in my opinion" - to say "he's wasting his talent". He's doing what he wants to do.
I have no interest in fighting with you. I'd rather enjoy our common bond of DT music.
A statement of "In my opinion, Scenes from a Memory is the greatest rap album of all time," of course can't be valid - because it isn't a rap album. An opinion cannot trump fact. However, an opinion that an artist is not maximizing his or her career, legacy, and what he or she is capable of, is very much a VALID opinion. You may not LIKE that type of discussion (which you have admitted), but trolling someone who has put it out there isn't the right way to go about it either, Stadler.
Yes, fans DO have the right to express their OPINION that an artist is "wasting their talent," if they believe that. It's called being a fan. Now, I grant you, if I saw Mike, I would never offer that opinion in personal conversation unless he specifically asked me my thoughts on what he's doing. Then I'd explain it probably a lot more gently than I did above. But the message would then be the same.
But this, DTF, is a message board. This is where fans SHARE those opinions. And I suggest -- if you don't like where a fan's opinion on something goes, then simply don't reply, or reply to a different aspect of the conversation. Because trying to impose your own sense of morality on other people, particularly when what was expressed was well within the rules, is a mistake, and insulting of the rest of us in the community.
Here's to Mike Portnoy -- may he be living the life and career he really wants, with as much happiness as possible. Carpe Diem!
Well, I disagree. And I'd appreciate if you didn't devolve this into a personal thing with words like "troll". You want respect for "forceful opinions", then give the same.
I think I'm done with this. Art for me is about choices. Not just what note to play, but what genres to play and who they play with. I respect Mike's choices. That his choices aren't what I would do is part of the beauty of it.
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I guess I am the only one who wishes MP to focus and build upon the Winery Dogs :lol
Man they are so good
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I guess I am the only one who wishes MP to focus and build upon the Winery Dogs :lol
Man they are so good
You're not alone. Love both albums and seeing them live.
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I guess I am the only one who wishes MP to focus and build upon the Winery Dogs :lol
Man they are so good
Yep, much more my cup of tea than Flying Colours, but I'm a little partial there, as I've always loved Kotzen.
B.Lee
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WTF happened in this thread?
More Flying Colors please.
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WTF happened in this thread?
More Flying Colors please.
:lol hence my attempt at changing topics
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I don't know if anyone posted this already, but the footage of FC playing the cruise is out there:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l2IINCmVhws
EDIT: First thought - Casey has improved as a front man even more. He's pretty great.
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WTF happened in this thread?
More Flying Colors please.
Man, I loooooved FC 1. But FC2 left me cold like a skinny dip in the Charles River.
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Axeman and I are the only one who got that joke Rumbo. :lol
I really like the second album. I like both albums.
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I don't know if anyone posted this already, but the footage of FC playing the cruise is out there:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l2IINCmVhws
EDIT: First thought - Casey has improved as a front man even more. He's pretty great.
Thanks for pointing that out! Now I'm watching Pain of Salvation on a boat :lol
There's so much footage from that whole thing available, damn! And I really should go to bed as well.
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The first Flying Colors was far from perfect, but at least it felt like a genuine synthesis of all the parties involved.
The second Flying Colors had 3-4 songs that sounded like that, and the rest sounded like leftovers from Casey and Neal solo albums.
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WTF happened in this thread?
Mike Portnoy borrowed Stadler's account for a day? That is my best guess.
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I have no interest in fighting with you. I'd rather enjoy our common bond of DT music.
I have a thread dedicated to this statement over in the P/R Forum! :D
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Re-reading today's posts, my opinions on the various things being discussed are:
-What Portnoy has done since leaving DT has been fine. Okay, A-Mob sucked ass, but the Neal Morse stuff continues to kick ass, Flying Colors is really good, Transatlantic released a very good 4th album, and Winery Dogs are okay.
-Going out of his way to create a "successful" (popularity-wise) band would be an exercise in futility. Like has been said, he's now a 50-year old drummer with a rep as a control freak (which some view as good, some bad). Any upcoming songwriter worth a damn doesn't need that kind of personality around while making their way up.
-I do not believe him when he says he is truly happy. I am sure he is happy with each individual band he is in and the work they are doing, but anything who think he doesn't miss like DT like crazy is kidding themselves, IMO. When I saw the Neal Morse Band last month, he didn't look like a happy guy. His energy and usual outward live spirit was virtually non-existent (which really surprised me).
-I think he is smart to avoid getting into a full time prog metal band. Like has been said, the odds of it comparing to Dream Theater are slim to none, and the earlier comment about how it failing to do so would fall squarely on Portnoy's shoulders was dead accurate. No need to create that albatross for himself.
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2nd Flying Colors album was a major disappointment. It was like they got rid of all the things that made the first album so good.
I'm ok with what Portnoy has done post-DT, although I'm not crazy about Winery Dogs and I'm disappointed that he seems to be putting most of his eggs in that basket.
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I guess I'm listening to a different 2nd FC album, but (aside from the boring first track) it feels like a perfect continuation of the 1st album, just without the overt Beatles rip off song.
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I guess I'm listening to a different 2nd FC album, but (aside from the boring first track) it feels like a perfect continuation of the 1st album, just without the overt Beatles rip off song.
Agreed on all counts. First song was meh, but the rest of the album is amazing.
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I liked the 2nd FC album much more than the first one, but still, I don't consider them to be that good. FC, to me, sounds like them under-using their members and not playing to their strenghts. The only one who really is used to his best, imo, is Casey.
What I've found with most MP albums in the last 6 years is that he'll hype them A LOT, but then, a few months after the release, they don't have the replay value a better album would. This doesn't happen with the DT releases at all. Even the DT albums I rank lower on my list (WDADU, Black Clouds, TOT) I still play on a regular basis, the latest MP albums (if I like them), not so much.
This is entirely based on my opinion and experience, not making general statements here, btw.
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WTF happened in this thread?
Mike Portnoy borrowed Stadler's account for a day? That is my best guess.
Yes, and I'm playing drums with The Winery Dogs next week. :)
F*** Blabbermouth!
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WTF happened in this thread?
Mike Portnoy borrowed Stadler's account for a day? That is my best guess.
Yes, and I'm playing drums with The Winery Dogs next week. :)
F*** Blabbermouth!
Where at? I want to see TWD again :metal
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WTF happened in this thread?
Mike Portnoy borrowed Stadler's account for a day? That is my best guess.
Yes, and I'm playing drums with The Winery Dogs next week. :)
F*** Blabbermouth!
Where at? I want to see TWD again :metal
I much prefer TA or FC in the studio - I'm a melody guy - but I saw the opening night of the Hot Streak tour, and it kicked ASS. I was literally two feet in front of Billy, and to watch him actually DO what it is he does, my jaw was on the floor. He's a beast.
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Yea I saw them in NJ on the same tour, it was the one and only time I've seen MP since he left the band. They were awesome live. All three of them. :metal
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I guess I'm listening to a different 2nd FC album, but (aside from the boring first track) it feels like a perfect continuation of the 1st album, just without the overt Beatles rip off song.
Agreed on all counts. First song was meh, but the rest of the album is amazing.
Same here. I don't understand a lot of the criticism the second album gets.
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I guess I'm listening to a different 2nd FC album, but (aside from the boring first track) it feels like a perfect continuation of the 1st album, just without the overt Beatles rip off song.
Agreed on all counts. First song was meh, but the rest of the album is amazing.
Same here. I don't understand a lot of the criticism the second album gets.
What is there to get? It's DTF. :lol
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I guess I'm listening to a different 2nd FC album, but (aside from the boring first track) it feels like a perfect continuation of the 1st album, just without the overt Beatles rip off song.
Agreed on all counts. First song was meh, but the rest of the album is amazing.
Same here. I don't understand a lot of the criticism the second album gets.
Somebody a long time ago made the point that by putting this run-of-the-mill prog epic right at the beginning of the album, it framed the rest of the album in that way. I can probably agree with that, because I came kinda pissed out of the first 20 minutes of the album. Hard to recover from that initial impression.
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Yeah, I definitely think that the second album suffers more from abysmal track ordering than anything else. If they just moved that first track to the end as some kind of bonus track and the album started with Mask Machine I feel like people would have a different impression of it.
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There is a great review of the album on Sputnik, that I entirely agree with:
https://www.sputnikmusic.com/review/64345/Flying-Colors-Second-Nature/
As the guy says, it seems FC's descent into the old patterns of their constituents was probably inevitable.
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I love the second FC other than the opening track.
To me MP's post DT work is as follows
NMB>FC>Winery Dogs>AMOB
I haven't checked out Metal Allegiance and really have no desire too as my interest Thrash has greatly diminished.
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If we are talking about the total bodies of work of those same projects, I would rank them something like this:
1a/1b: Transatlantic/Neal Morse. Hard to say which I would put ahead of the other, since both projects have put out some of my all-time favorite music (which is interesting, given that I am more of a metal head, and not really into prog as a genre). If pressed to pick one, I guess I would go with Neal just because of the sheer volume of material. But the quality is pretty even for both.
3. Flying Colors. I enjoy these two albums from time to time. But I don't listen to them often.
4. Winery Dogs. The music was good. But there is so much music that I enjoy more that I rarely listen to the two WD albums and don't find them all that interesting or exciting.
5. AMOB. Meh.
If we are considering ONLY the post-DT output from these projects, my ranking probably wouldn't change much other than putting Neal solidly at #1 and TA at #2 by virtue of the fact that Neal's last two albums were rock solid and I didn't care much for TA's last album. I mean, it was very good. But, to me, it was EASILY a step below the first three TA albums.
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I actually didn't hate the first A Mob. I didn't check out anything else they did, but I thought it was OK for what they were trying to do.
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I actually didn't hate the first A Mob. I didn't check out anything else they did, but I thought it was OK for what they were trying to do.
Same here.
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I actually didn't hate the first A Mob. I didn't check out anything else they did, but I thought it was OK for what they were trying to do.
The problem wasn't really the band itself, but the potential a MP - RA collab that ended up being AMOB :facepalm:
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Yea, that much was disappointing. It was still fun to finally hear the two musicians on the same project though, regardless.
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I actually didn't hate the first A Mob. I didn't check out anything else they did, but I thought it was OK for what they were trying to do.
The problem wasn't really the band itself, but the potential a MP - RA collab that ended up being AMOB :facepalm:
Bingo. I get that they wanted to be a mainstream hard rock act, but all the swearing in that god awful song they did on that first record was just downright lame, to my ears. With Portnoy, Allen, and Orlando, I really expected something more...and better.
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I still throw on Adrenaline Mob every now and then as mindless workout music. I also thought there were a couple cool tunes on the Coverta album as well. I honestly would have loved to see them do something like what Mike does with Metal Allegiance as far as a covers show, because I remember going to the first concert AMob ever played and they closed with an absolutely blistering cover of War Pigs.
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The best thing AMOB did was their version of Come Undone. The rest is pretty MEH.
I also expected a lot more from a band with MP and Russell Allen.
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Regarding the first song from the second FC album, Open Up Your Eyes, I think the meat of the song is very good, but the intro is too long, and that part around the 3-minute mark is the kind of prog wank that you thought FC would not be about. And don't even get me started on that dumb ass ending, which quite frankly is annoying as hell.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sDdcax-SD2E
4K footage of FC and Transatlantic sets at CTTE 2017.
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The best thing AMOB did was their version of Come Undone. The rest is pretty MEH.
I also expected a lot more from a band with MP and Russell Allen.
I agree although I also like Undaunted.
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I also expected a lot more from a band with MP and Russell Allen.
I expected a lot more from a band with MP and Billy Sheehan.
I expected a lot more from a band with MP and Steve Morse.
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Adrenaline Mob may have been disliked by many but seeing them perform the first album in a sweaty little club in Glasgow remains the best MP-related show I've seen with the potential exception of DT at Radio City and maybe Wolverhampton in 2005.
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Also, seems like most MP die hard fans these days buy his albums not because they like his bands that much, but because he's MP and... you know... MP... #MPWarriors.
It could also be they dig the music and the people he plays with. I love it all to varying degrees except for AMob and Avenged. What would Bowie's legacy have been if he didn't break up Spiders? (Not to compare Portnoy with Bowie.)
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I guess I'm listening to a different 2nd FC album, but (aside from the boring first track) it feels like a perfect continuation of the 1st album, just without the overt Beatles rip off song.
Agreed on all counts. First song was meh, but the rest of the album is amazing.
Same here. I don't understand a lot of the criticism the second album gets.
Higher highs, but lower lows. Amazing moments and some that weren't so amazing. Doesn't get going for me until almost halfway through.
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Adrenaline Mob may have been disliked by many but seeing them perform the first album in a sweaty little club in Glasgow remains the best MP-related show I've seen with the potential exception of DT at Radio City and maybe Wolverhampton in 2005.
Saw the first show they ever did. It was a powder keg. Just not my kind of powder keg. The band sold it, the passion and energy were there. I just wasn't buying.
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I also expected a lot more from a band with MP and Russell Allen.
I expected a lot more from a band with MP and Billy Sheehan.
I expected a lot more from a band with MP and Steve Morse.
I really like TWD. FC is not my cup of tea...
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For those of you wanting to relive the moment, or for those who simply couldn't make it, here's the complete second night of Mike Portnoy's 50th Birthday Bash celebration during Cruise to the Edge 2017. It encompasses material of Liquid Tension Experiment and the world premiere of his project “The Shattered Fortress”, a full progressive-metal tour-de-force including members of Haken, Spock's Beard and Pain of Salvation, performing live for the first time the “12 Step Suite”. Filmed in ultra-high definition (aka 4K), you must change the resolution settings to see it in full glory (And that will depend on your Internet bandwidth). Hope you all enjoy this magnificent event as it unfolded in front of our eyes!
https://youtu.be/2hxtUs3qS70
Credit to Joel Barrios
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With this description, I was pretty sure I would click on the link and find the rickroll video there, but apparently it's legit. Thank you!
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For those of you wanting to relive the moment, or for those who simply couldn't make it, here's the complete second night of Mike Portnoy's 50th Birthday Bash celebration during Cruise to the Edge 2017. It encompasses material of Liquid Tension Experiment and the world premiere of his project “The Shattered Fortress”, a full progressive-metal tour-de-force including members of Haken, Spock's Beard and Pain of Salvation, performing live for the first time the “12 Step Suite”. Filmed in ultra-high definition (aka 4K), you must change the resolution settings to see it in full glory (And that will depend on your Internet bandwidth). Hope you all enjoy this magnificent event as it unfolded in front of our eyes!
https://youtu.be/2hxtUs3qS70
Credit to Joel Barrios
OMG, The entire thing on Youtube!!
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This Joel Barrios got a lot of footage from ProgPower last year, I've watched a bunch of his videos before.
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This is great! I mean, the sound isn't THAT great as the wind is buggering the volume, but it's not distorting the pitch and so it's actually alright to listen to and seems to give a pretty accurate recording (although the downside is that pictching errors on vocals and leads are actually more noticeable :lol ).
I dig the vocal performances on the whole, except for Daniel not knowing the words and Ross struggling with the crazy bit in the middle of TGP :lol
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Having watched the whole Suite, I think they did an amazing job. In between touring, writing and everything, how did the guys from Haken PRACTICE all that stuff? I would need years :D And when did they all get together to rehearse? MAN :D
Eric Gilette IS a beast, indeed. I would have loved Richard and Charlie to have more solo parts though.
I feel like Daniel had some lyrics problems. Did he have a laptop standing in front of him? If he had problems with half of TDS, I don't want to imagine the whole suite with Daniel. Sorry to say that, although I love Daniels vocals.
Ted Leonard did a very good job as well, although he had some problems with the high notes. Nice to hear him in a more metal context, although TROAE is not the heaviest song of the five.
In general, I realized how hard JLBs vocals actually are! None of those GREAT vocalists could pull it off easily or even perfectly. But maybe that's because they don't have the routine in singing those songs.
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Having watched the whole Suite, I think they did an amazing job. In between touring, writing and everything, how did the guys from Haken PRACTICE all that stuff? I would need years :D And when did they all get together to rehearse? MAN :D
Honestly, apart from the songs being very fast and thus tiring on both hands, none of the rhythm parts for the entire twelve step suite is especially difficult. The guitar solos are on a whole other level (most notably the solos in The Glass Prison and the ending to This Dying Soul), but I think most of the solos were played by Eric Gillette. I can imagine some of the Haken guys practising the stuff together. Even still, if you're a musician at the level they're playing at, you don't really need to get together as much to play the stuff right if everybody would practise their own parts perfectly at home.
I feel like Daniel had some lyrics problems. Did he have a laptop standing in front of him? If he had problems with half of TDS, I don't want to imagine the whole suite with Daniel. Sorry to say that, although I love Daniels vocals.
Yeah, he was reading stuff from a laptop. You can see him turn it on when he walks on. Ted does the same.
In general, I realized how hard JLBs vocals actually are! None of those GREAT vocalists could pull it off easily or even perfectly. But maybe that's because they don't have the routine in singing those songs.
JLB gets way too much slack as a vocalist. I can see why people wouldn't like the tone of his voice, but he is undeniably a great singer.
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So speaking of a Mike Portnoy Prog Metal supergroup...
https://www.facebook.com/mikeportnoyofficial/posts/1598772116807091
Hmmmm....what have we here??
I'm in LA recording an album with something new...
Sorry, this is all you're gonna get outta me on this for a while...More will be revealed at a later date...stay tuned!
#ProgMetalSupergroup
Coming soon...
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With Los Angeles as the only clue as to who may be involved I'm going to take a swing and say Nick Van Dyk will be a guitarist and lead songwriter.
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Paging Brian! Looks like you got your wish!!!
With Los Angeles as the only clue as to who may be involved I'm going to take a swing and say Nick Van Dyk will be a guitarist and lead songwriter.
Fingers crossed Derek Sherinian will be on keys. And altho it's a bit of a stretch, I'd love to see MP finally do an original project with Paul Gilbert, altho I think I read somewhere that he moved (I think he used to be based in the LA area). The only thing I'm hoping will not be included in this band/project is cookie monster vocals, altho I'm sure that wish will not come true. I wonder if MP would include Eric Gillette or not, given how similar he is in style to JP.
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It'd be cool to see a project with a bunch of guys he has never worked with before, but I suspect this will be another case of "musical chairs," where he mixes and matches guys he has worked with before and calls it something different.
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https://twitter.com/DerekSherinian/status/837141893251133440
Definitely the same studio. Sherinian is in.
EDIT: Derek has taken down his tweet
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Portnoy
Sherinian..
Who else?
I can totally see Gillette in it.
And then bass and vox?
Hmmm
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Portnoy
Sherinian..
Who else?
I can totally see Gillette in it.
So basically DT.
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We need an Asian and a Canadian!
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Devin Townsend on vocals? :neverusethis:
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Portnoy
Sherinian..
Who else?
I can totally see Gillette in it.
And then bass and vox?
Hmmm
You just need bass.... Gilette can handle the vocals
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Portnoy
Sherinian..
Who else?
I can totally see Gillette in it.
And then bass and vox?
Hmmm
You just need bass.... Gilette can handle the vocals
I don't dislike his vocals, but I wanna see someone with a little more.. umph. Maybe not growls, but more umph.
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I just hope he doesn't go for something inoffensive.
Like "Well....this will definitely make 45% of my fans excited, good enough for me!" and just going as safe and predictable as possible.
Do something weird, do something crazy.
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I will be surprised if someone from Haken or Eric Gillette isn't involved. The timing for this seems too close for that not to be somehow related.
This is pretty interesting though. Is this going to be his first all out prog metal project since leaving DT? I don't really count PSMS as they were doing all covers.
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I hope it's MP, DS, plus Paul Gilbert, Neal Morse and either Billy Sheehan or Dave LaRue.
He can call it "The Portnoyest Portnoy has ever Portnoyed"
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I hope it's MP, DS, plus Paul Gilbert, Neal Morse and either Billy Sheehan or Dave LaRue.
He can call it "The Portnoyest Portnoy has ever Portnoyed"
Or perhaps "Portnoy Max". :neverusethis:
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I hope it's MP, DS, plus Paul Gilbert, Neal Morse and either Billy Sheehan or Dave LaRue.
He can call it "The Portnoyest Portnoy has ever Portnoyed"
Or perhaps "Portnoy Max". :neverusethis:
No.
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Wasn't Devin Townsend preparing for a project where he would be playing bass and doing vocals? :corn
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Wasn't Devin Townsend preparing for a project where he would be playing bass and doing vocals? :corn
IIRC he implied that he would like to do a project where he would play bass and "maybe" sing in his Gearwhore Bass video, but it didn't really come off as something that has been decided.
Tbh I don't really see Devin working with other composers. Wasn't Transcendence the first album where he actually let the band have some imput?
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And he (Devin)is on tour in Europe right now..
Haken and NMB will also start their European tour in 3 weeks so they need to be pretty quick...
Interesting project. Let's hope it meets expectations which will be pretty high as with everything guys like MP are doing.
A tour would be appreciated.
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DS deleted his tweet
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https://twitter.com/DerekSherinian/status/837141893251133440
Definitely the same studio. Sherinian is in.
EDIT: Derek has taken down his tweet
What did it say?
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Hmm, this could be interesting. Hopefully we find out more soon!
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Looks like you got your wish!!!
With Los Angeles as the only clue as to who may be involved I'm going to take a swing and say Nick Van Dyk will be a guitarist and lead songwriter.
Fingers crossed Derek Sherinian will be on keys. And altho it's a bit of a stretch, I'd love to see MP finally do an original project with Paul Gilbert, altho I think I read somewhere that he moved (I think he used to be based in the LA area). The only thing I'm hoping will not be included in this band/project is cookie monster vocals, altho I'm sure that wish will not come true. I wonder if MP would include Eric Gillette or not, given how similar he is in style to JP.
I had a feeling something was in the works. ;) Very cool. Hoping it's truly cool. Happy that Derek is involved. I swear I saw something else on FB yesterday about someone going to LA for a metal project, that was in the vein of something like this, but I can't find it, and can't remember! >:(
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Anyone But Neal 2017
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Looks like you got your wish!!!
With Los Angeles as the only clue as to who may be involved I'm going to take a swing and say Nick Van Dyk will be a guitarist and lead songwriter.
Fingers crossed Derek Sherinian will be on keys. And altho it's a bit of a stretch, I'd love to see MP finally do an original project with Paul Gilbert, altho I think I read somewhere that he moved (I think he used to be based in the LA area). The only thing I'm hoping will not be included in this band/project is cookie monster vocals, altho I'm sure that wish will not come true. I wonder if MP would include Eric Gillette or not, given how similar he is in style to JP.
I had a feeling something was in the works. ;) Very cool. Hoping it's truly cool. Happy that Derek is involved. I swear I saw something else on FB yesterday about someone going to LA for a metal project, that was in the vein of something like this, but I can't find it, and can't remember! >:(
I guess that rules out Jim then, because you would remember that!
Anyone But Neal 2017
:lol
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Nah, it wasn't Jim who posted that. I just spent the last few minutes trying to find it, and couldn't. Maybe I was confusing it with something else.
And no, if it was Jim, I'd absolutely remember (and he wouldn't post it on FB anyway).
I knew it was only a matter of time before MP did something like this. Glad it is happening.
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Anyone But Neal 2017
This.
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https://twitter.com/DerekSherinian/status/837141893251133440
Definitely the same studio. Sherinian is in.
EDIT: Derek has taken down his tweet
What did it say?
It showed a picture of his keyboard rig in a studio that looks identical to the one Mike was in in his pic from earlier.
The caption said something like "My office for the next 10 days"
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I agree. I love Neal, but I hope it's not another Portnoys/Morse collaboration, because seriously, although they sell them as something different, in the end they all sound similar.
Eric would be great to be involved as a full member in terms of composition, honestly I don't believe that he had so much impact on TSOAD, since Morse has never let that happen ever.
I'm also guessing that someone from Haken could be involved, although they are VERY busy... an album + a tour and everything could be hard to realize for those guys.
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My hope is that Portnoy didn't enlist the usual suspects (Billy Sheehan or Neal Morse). Derek is great, and I love the DT connection. Here's hoping something really cool gets put together. Can't wait for more details!
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I honestly don't care too much who he has on bass, and wouldn't really react if he had Randy George or Billy, even though he has done a lot with them on other projects. Honestly, in the vast majority of bands, the bass player usually don't have a TON of influence in the songwriting/composition department outside of maybe a song or two per album. I'm more interested in the compositional musicians that will really influence the sound. I would love it if Nick was correct and NVD were involved. I would LOVE to hear what he is capable of outside of Redemption and working with some other seriously capable musicians. But we'll see. This could be amazing. Or it could really fall flat. Or it could be somewhere in between. But when Mike is at the helm (unlike, for example, AMob), the result is usually pretty good, so I am hopeful.
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My hope is that Portnoy didn't enlist the usual suspects (Billy Sheehan or Neal Morse).
Agree. Billy is great, but he doesn't fit this style of music at all.
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Are "Relentless" and "Cheyenne" indicative of John Arch? If so, not the worst choice (better than Russell Allen, in my opinion) but not the best choice. His voice is a shade whiny for me. then again, I'm one of the few that can't imagine a DT without LaBrie. It was his voice as much as anything that sucked me in back in '92 when I first heard Images and Words.
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Arch came to mind, but honestly, I think he's pretty content with his life, and just doing the FW reunion stuff once in a while, or teaming up with Jim like he did for Arch/Matheos.
There are a million singers out there that could work. I guess we'll eventually find out. If Derek said his "office" is that studio for 10 days, that tells me with such a short window, everything is already written. So whoever the rest of the band is, this has been on the table for a while.
I seriously hope it's a real BAND however, and not a side project.
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If it really is PSMS with a vocalist, John Arch would be great...if only so they can call themselves SPASM (referring back to my earlier post suggesting other A-named vocalists like Russell Allen).
Anyways, I thought it was hilarious yesterday seeing Mike's post and thinking about the discussion in this thread about how some didn't want to see Mike ever do a full-on prog metal project for fear that it would be compared to DT way too much, but I think it's been long enough that Mike feels the need to do that kind of music again. He's been doing hard rock, symphonic prog, pop-prog, and heavy metal, but nothing that really blends those into the kind of prog metal he's known for from Dream Theater, so I think he just misses doing that.
Has anyone tried to track down tweets or updates from the other members of PSMS to see what they're up to?
-Marc.
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I think Billy was in europe a few days ago...
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John West would be awesome and he deserves a chance with a bigger band. but i know the chances are close to zero...
Russel Allen? Jorn Lande?
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I just checked...Billy´s been in Eastern Europe for a few days now.
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Jorn Lande?
My interests would spark a lot more if he was going to be the vocalist.
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If Derek said his "office" is that studio for 10 days, that tells me with such a short window, everything is already written.
Logical assumption, but not necessarily so. I know you wouldn't know this, as someone who doesn't actively follow Transatlantic or Neal Morse, but the typical MO for songwriting for those two bands has often been along the lines of: Some band members have some ideas for songs, but not full songs written. They come together in Neal's studio for 7-10 days, throw those ideas on the table, and then spend the first half of that time writing the album together when they are all in the same place. Mike then usually lays down the drum tracks. And then they all leave and go back home, where they record their own parts to Mike's drum track, and they email files back and forth until everything is tracked. It may seem like an odd way to write for us old fogies, but it has worked in a few projects Mike is involved with and has produced some EXCELLENT music, so it can definitely work.
As for whether this is a "band" or just a project, I think this is another area where looking to Mike's past is relevant. As I mentioned in our conversation offline, he has done quite a few things that started off essentially as "projects" that turned into full-fledged entities of their own over time and as the members became comfortable that it was something they wanted to invest in long-term after getting their feet wet and testing the waters together. And that make sense with something like this (Transatlantic, Flying Colors, etc.). As I mentioned, when it comes right down to it, there is a relatively small number of “known” prog metal musicians out there. When you start factoring in who might be a “right fit” to work with Portnoy and then also start factoring in scheduling and availability, the pickings start looking VERY slim. I think he may likely have had feelers out there for a long time trying to get something going, and they either turned into other things or didn’t come to fruition (working with Russell Allen turned into AMob, which failed; PSMS was only really a niche LTE-type project; the Akerfeldt/Wilson project fell through). I guess we'll see. But if it turns out that it is just a "project," I wouldn't worry too much about it not becoming a full-fledged ongoing band at some point down the road, because it has been shown that that can often happen with things Mike is involved in if they end up being proven to work. And if this proves to NOT work so well, then even better that it wasn't (hypothetically) set up to be a "band" from the getgo.
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Would it matter if other members are not in the same studio?
I mean, Mike could record drums without having the bassist or vocalist present, unless they are actually writing the songs in the studio.
Which then of course means, literally anybody could be involved, which then means.. nothing.. so the speculation because non-sensical :lol
Okay, here's a guess:
Portnoy
Sherinian
Connor Green on bass (Haken)
Some vocalist
Eric Gillette
I really doubt Portnoy would ditch Gillette now and randomly play with someone else all of a sudden, though I suppose Steve Morse could be an option as well.
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Would it matter if other members are not in the same studio?
I mean, Mike could record drums without having the bassist or vocalist present, unless they are actually writing the songs in the studio.
Which then of course means, literally anybody could be involved, which then means.. nothing.. so the speculation because non-sensical :lol
Okay, here's a guess:
Portnoy
Sherinian
Connor Green on bass (Haken)
Some vocalist
Eric Gillette
I really doubt Portnoy would ditch Gillette now and randomly play with someone else all of a sudden, though I suppose Steve Morse could be an option as well.
That's a lineup I'd be interested in hearing music from. Though I don't know if Some vocalist has quite the right voice for the project :neverusethis:
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(https://i1377.photobucket.com/albums/ah58/jorge_pozo1/CA8FFCB0-A11C-4583-A8A4-2CCA78B7EFFB_zpsumdtn09h.jpg) (https://s1377.photobucket.com/user/jorge_pozo1/media/CA8FFCB0-A11C-4583-A8A4-2CCA78B7EFFB_zpsumdtn09h.jpg.html)
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So, Derek is confirmed. Cool!
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Would it matter if other members are not in the same studio?
I mean, Mike could record drums without having the bassist or vocalist present, unless they are actually writing the songs in the studio.
Which then of course means, literally anybody could be involved, which then means.. nothing.. so the speculation because non-sensical :lol
Okay, here's a guess:
Portnoy
Sherinian
Connor Green on bass (Haken)
Some vocalist
Eric Gillette
I really doubt Portnoy would ditch Gillette now and randomly play with someone else all of a sudden, though I suppose Steve Morse could be an option as well.
That's a lineup I'd be interested in hearing music from. Though I don't know if Some vocalist has quite the right voice for the project :neverusethis:
I'd take Gillette over Morse. Great player but not much of a songwriter for me.
T Mac would be great .
In fantasy land I'd like to see Vinnie Moore do a prog metal album. He's maybe added too much blues to his playing these days but a few years ago he'd have been great.
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My first thought after seeing Derek and Mike would record together: Holy shit! I'm finally going to spend money on something Mike has done post-DT.
Then I check out his facebook post and read some of the comments: Typical Portnoy. Interest waning
Somebody suggests John Arch could be vocalist: Holy shit take all my money now!
Remembers surprise lineup for Shattered Fortress: Underwhelmed. I'll standby for more.
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When I read the term "Supergroup" I am already getting cautious. What happened to just having a regular "group", one that doesn't rely on the names for pull, but instead the music?
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If Sherinian is in this, how it that for irony?
The first prog metal band Portnoy does post-Dream Theater, features the keyboard player he (and the others) fired to get the guy who is still in the band who wouldn't let him return?
:eek :eek
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That's just fantastic.
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If Sherinian is in this, how it that for irony?
The first prog metal band Portnoy does post-Dream Theater, features the keyboard player he (and the others) fired to get the guy who is still in the band who wouldn't let him return?
:eek :eek
Fist thought that came to my mind as well.
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If Sherinian is in this, how it that for irony?
The first prog metal band Portnoy does post-Dream Theater, features the keyboard player he (and the others) fired to get the guy who is still in the band who wouldn't let him return?
:eek :eek
Wasn´t that the case with PSMS as well?
I´m excited for this, but calling a band "supergroup" from the get go does more disservice to the project than helps it. Look at how many supergroups that fell flat: Velvet Revolver, Chickenfoot, Adrenaline Mob, Tin Machine, Blue Murder, Neurotic Outsiders, Audioslave, Zwan, Brides of Destruction, Living Loud, GTR, California Breed, Killer Be Killed, Art of Anarchy, Blind Faith, SuperHeavy etc. etc. etc...
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If Sherinian is in this, how it that for irony?
The first prog metal band Portnoy does post-Dream Theater, features the keyboard player he (and the others) fired to get the guy who is still in the band who wouldn't let him return?
:eek :eek
Charlie Dominici on vocals! :metal
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I´m excited for this, but calling a band "supergroup" from the get go does more disservice to the project than helps it. Look at how many supergroups that fell flat: Velvet Revolver, Chickenfoot, Adrenaline Mob, Tin Machine, Blue Murder, Neurotic Outsiders, Audioslave, Zwan, Brides of Destruction, Living Loud, GTR, California Breed, Killer Be Killed, Art of Anarchy, Blind Faith, SuperHeavy etc. etc. etc...
??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ???
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Personally, I really hope MP and DS recruit a stable lineup and have a true band in the prog metal genre. I'm not too worried about who the musicians are going to be, other than hoping Billy Sheehan and Mr. Morse stay out of it. (all respect to them, but kind of over exposed lately to me.) The key to me is the singer. You can write the most killer prog metal record in history, but if my ear doesn't like the tonal quality of the singer, I'll jump ship quickly.
If it is a band that will play a lot of DT, then I hope Mike does go the true tenor route and bring someone in that can properly replicate James' work.
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I keep catching myself wanting to say what I think he will or will not do with this band, and realizing that, even as much as we know about MP based on past habits and how much he puts out there in the public, there really isn't ANYTHING to go on here other than the fact that he is in studio in L.A. and that Derek seems like he is likely part of this. I can't help but be optimistic, but I keep having to remind myself that I have no clue what this will be like. :lol
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If it is a band that will play a lot of DT
That I think would be the most disappointing route this band could take.
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Yes, stay away from doing DT songs (covers?). Keep to the original stuff, please.
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Educated guess: We will definitely see a DT song or two or three show up in their sets, but probably not more than that. It's Mike Portnoy. How could we realistically NOT expect some DT songs?
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I think a cover here or there is fine. But if it's just another vehicle for playing each members' old material, that would be disappointing.
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I think a cover here or there is fine. But if it's just another vehicle for playing each members' old material, that would be disappointing.
For you and some others perhaps. If you have two former members of DT, I would be pretty disappointed if they didn't at least do two or three Dream Theater songs in a set. If Mike Portnoy and Derek S are in a band together, if they don't play Dream Theater, that would suck. I hear ya overall on covering every member's other bands...that gets old, and I'd agree that would be overkill. But a couple of DT songs, for me, is vital, if this is a stable band that will tour (we have no idea).
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I think a cover here or there is fine. But if it's just another vehicle for playing each members' old material, that would be disappointing.
For you and some others perhaps. If you have two former members of DT, I would be pretty disappointed if they didn't at least do two or three Dream Theater songs in a set. If Mike Portnoy and Derek S are in a band together, if they don't play Dream Theater, that would suck. I hear ya overall on covering every member's other bands...that gets old, and I'd agree that would be overkill. But a couple of DT songs, for me, is vital, if this is a stable band that will tour (we have no idea).
At least the live staples of FII, and possibly bits of ACOS. That´s what I´m hoping for, anyways. I think this is MP and DS´s second attempt at getting a prog band together, since PSMS was, admittedly, a bit of a trainwreck. The guys talk about it in the Blu Ray of that tour.
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I think a cover here or there is fine. But if it's just another vehicle for playing each members' old material, that would be disappointing.
Yeah I'm with you on that one. Maybe if you have one record out and need a couple songs to fill out a setlist, play a couple DT covers. But if this turns out to be a band that is going to record and tour moving forward, after they have two records recorded, I would want them to tour that and invest in that music.
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Maybe it would be interesting if they play some DT, but more B-side songs. In fact, DS era in DT is full of that and, realistic, with almost no rotation on setlists, it seems that DT will never play a B-side again in its shows.
I'm really hoping DS is involved on this and that this album will be kind of a sequel for FII, in terms of style. We don't see that kind of prog metal very often.
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Maybe if you have one record out and need a couple songs to fill out a setlist, play a couple DT covers.
I think that's fine too, but I agree that doing DT covers is not the best idea if they are trying to form a new true band. But I also think they could cover other bands not related to the musician's past and fill up a set list as well.
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I hear ya all. I guess for me personally, I want any band with DS and MP in it to be an extension of DT -- enabling Mike in particular to play DT material still, and play it regularly. That's my hope for this new band. One that will embrace the DT catalog. Not rely on it, but have it be a part of the band's identity.
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the Akerfeldt/Wilson project fell through
Strictly speaking, this isn't the case. It went on just fine; it's just that, no matter how much MP wanted to be part of it, he wasn't. And that was actually for the better of the final product.
I guess for me personally, I want any band with DS and MP in it to be an extension of DT -- enabling Mike in particular to play DT material still, and play it regularly. That's my hope for this new band. One that will embrace the DT catalog. Not rely on it, but have it be a part of the band's identity.
I know, opinions and all, but I don't get that at all, and I think this would be the worst possible thing this project could do.
They aren't going to do DT tunes better than DT does them. They should stay away from them and move on from DT. Just write and record some great stuff, and then perform it live, like every other band.
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the Akerfeldt/Wilson project fell through
Strictly speaking, this isn't the case. It went on just fine; it's just that, no matter how much MP wanted to be part of it, he wasn't. And that was actually for the better of the final product.
Oh, I know. I wasn't trying to imply that it didn't happen. Probably poor wording on my part. I meant that, as far as projects MP was to be involved with, it didn't turn into something that he was included on. I.e., it fell through for him. Sorry, I thought what I meant was clear from the context.
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PSMS was, admittedly, a bit of a trainwreck. The guys talk about it in the Blu Ray of that tour.
Intriguing. Can you elaborate?
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the Akerfeldt/Wilson project fell through
Strictly speaking, this isn't the case. It went on just fine; it's just that, no matter how much MP wanted to be part of it, he wasn't. And that was actually for the better of the final product.
Oh, I know. I wasn't trying to imply that it didn't happen. Probably poor wording on my part. I meant that, as far as projects MP was to be involved with, it didn't turn into something that he was included on. I.e., it fell through for him. Sorry, I thought what I meant was clear from the context.
I don't think he was ever intended to be involved. I think he was trying to involve himself into it lol
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Whether that is or isn't true, that's still not really relevant to what I was saying, so I'm not sure what you are arguing. :dunno:
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The interviews around Storm Corrosion suggest to me that whatever the Portnoy/Wilson/Akerfeldt project was (if it was ever an actual thing), it was unrelated. Storm Corrosion seemed much more spontaneous.
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PSMS was, admittedly, a bit of a trainwreck. The guys talk about it in the Blu Ray of that tour.
Intriguing. Can you elaborate?
The project was meant as a one-off, but was hastily put together for a tour that had all kinds of technical issues on a bunch of dates. I like the album though.
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I know, opinions and all, but I don't get that at all, and I think this would be the worst possible thing this project could do.
They aren't going to do DT tunes better than DT does them. They should stay away from them and move on from DT. Just write and record some great stuff, and then perform it live, like every other band.
That's just it, hef. You don't need to "get it," ya know. We simply disagree my man. Not the first time, won't be the last. I agree they should write and record some great stuff and perform it. That's pretty much a given from where I am coming from. But I'd like to see MP and DS' past not be forgotten. Mike was instrumental in the creation of Dream Theater and the...evolution and creation of many of the songs. Those of importance to the two of them shouldn't be forgotten about if they have the ability to perform them with each other.
But in general, yes, new music, perform it!
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other than hoping Billy Sheehan and Mr. Morse stay out of it. (all respect to them, but kind of
I agree with you on this point. I'm also interested in what singer they get. I know a lot of people like Casey on Flying Colors but I really think his vocals stake away from the music.
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I know, opinions and all, but I don't get that at all, and I think this would be the worst possible thing this project could do.
They aren't going to do DT tunes better than DT does them. They should stay away from them and move on from DT. Just write and record some great stuff, and then perform it live, like every other band.
That's just it, hef. You don't need to "get it," ya know. We simply disagree my man. Not the first time, won't be the last. I agree they should write and record some great stuff and perform it. That's pretty much a given from where I am coming from. But I'd like to see MP and DS' past not be forgotten. Mike was instrumental in the creation of Dream Theater and the...evolution and creation of many of the songs. Those of importance to the two of them shouldn't be forgotten about if they have the ability to perform them with each other.
But in general, yes, new music, perform it!
Haha, looks like you won our "argument" there! Mike seems to agree, and I'm happy you might get your wish. Depending on the singer, I'm looking forward to this too.
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I can only chime in with Hef, in the sense of, I guess we shall agree to disagree, but man, this desire to relive the past is IMHO one of the causes why we haven't gotten anything truly interesting from MP. With PSMS he knew he could just roll the classics and people would show up. And if he sees enough "as long as he plays some DT, I'll go" online, he'll come to the same conclusion for this next project.
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And if he sees enough "as long as he plays some DT, I'll go" online, he'll come to the same conclusion for this next project.
This statement is really comical.
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Regarding Eric Gillette, while something like this could improve his profile, I hope he doesn't do it. Portnoy is already doing him no favors by calling him "John Petrucci Junior," a label I am seeing stuck on him in a lot of places now, but playing in a band with DT's ex-drummer and ex-keyboard player will just reinforce the belief some have that he is nothing more than a John Petrucci clone/wannabe. I'd rather see Gillette forge his own path outside of the Neal Morse Band, rather than playing in what would basically be a DT clone band.
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When did MP call jim JP Junior.
That would suck being called that.
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Well his Petrucci-like stage presence and style (you can easily tell he is very influenced by Petrucci when you listen to his playing) isn't doing him any favours either in this regard. I've seen him called mini-Petrucci on some of his videos even before he did this.
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Maybe that's what he wants. He definitely hasn't done anything to distinguish himself yet.
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When did MP call jim JP Junior.
That would suck being called that.
During the band intros, if I'm not mistaken.
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Maybe that's what he wants. He definitely hasn't done anything to distinguish himself yet.
True, I guess I'm just saying if it was me I wouldn't like it.
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I definitely wouldn't either, but you can go on youtube and find a lot of similar Petrucci clones so it's something people strive for.
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When did MP call jim JP Junior.
Here's one instance: https://youtu.be/2hxtUs3qS70?t=3m43s
on the Cruise to the Edge. The 'Shattered Fortress' gig.
Yeah, I wouldn't be happy if I were labeled 'JP Junior' either :lol
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I can only chime in with Hef, in the sense of, I guess we shall agree to disagree, but man, this desire to relive the past is IMHO one of the causes why we haven't gotten anything truly interesting from MP. With PSMS he knew he could just roll the classics and people would show up. And if he sees enough "as long as he plays some DT, I'll go" online, he'll come to the same conclusion for this next project.
Good. Because that's exactly what I'd like to see -- a headline show consisting of 9 or 10 new songs, and five or six Dream Theater songs the band loves.
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I definitely wouldn't either, but you can go on youtube and find a lot of similar Petrucci clones so it's something people strive for.
A more general comment here, I feel the pejorative "JP clone" gets thrown around a lot whenever somebody is what I would call "modern metal guitar player". There was the thread about whether JP has a distinct style or not, and I thought it actually had a point, in the sense that JP is himself a modern metal guitarist, just incredibly skilled. He has very few idiosyncrasies. So, just because somebody strives to be a well-rounded guitarist who can both play melodic and shred solos, doesn't mean he's a JP clone.
Gillette of course is indeed a JP clone, no question.
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Eric Gillette is doing a Questions and Answers over FB right now, and it will be on it for the next 24 hours.
I went ahead and asked him about the JP comparisons
(https://i1377.photobucket.com/albums/ah58/jorge_pozo1/14DE19D8-2F11-4468-80D6-C70306A60C05_zpsoaqjhx46.png) (https://s1377.photobucket.com/user/jorge_pozo1/media/14DE19D8-2F11-4468-80D6-C70306A60C05_zpsoaqjhx46.png.html)
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Props to Gillette for giving the classy, PC answer. :tup :tup
I see he was also asked who his favorite three classic and modern bands are, and he didn't mention Dream Theater for current (he said Haken, Devin Townsend and King's X); that surprised me. Also, for his his favorite five albums ever, he mentioned two Metallica albums (MoP and Black Album), and there was the Devin Townsend nod, so he is clearly much more of a metal guy than I realized.
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Just out of curiosity, is there anybody here, that thinks Eric is just a JP clone, listened to his solo album the great unknown?
If somebody listen to that allbum, I can't believe that will continue to have this opinion.
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I haven't eard that record, no, but I'll put it on my list. I've been interested in checking his stuff out lately, so I'll do that!
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I see he was also asked who his favorite three classic and modern bands are, and he didn't mention Dream Theater for current (he said Haken, Devin Townsend and King's X); that surprised me. Also, for his his favorite five albums ever, he mentioned two Metallica albums (MoP and Black Album), and there was the Devin Townsend nod, so he is clearly much more of a metal guy than I realized.
Raises an interesting follow-up question... are DT a modern band? Or are they now a classic band? They've been around for approaching 30 years so I personally don't think "modern" is appropriate.
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Well, yeah, they are the go-to band within the progressive metal genre. The band even people that might not have much with the genre will know at least by name. The band that every single progressive metal band will inevitably be compared with. I don't think Dream Theater can be considered 'modern' anymore, especially since they're seen as the architects of an entire genre that came to fruition in the 90s.
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I see he was also asked who his favorite three classic and modern bands are, and he didn't mention Dream Theater for current (he said Haken, Devin Townsend and King's X); that surprised me. Also, for his his favorite five albums ever, he mentioned two Metallica albums (MoP and Black Album), and there was the Devin Townsend nod, so he is clearly much more of a metal guy than I realized.
Raises an interesting follow-up question... are DT a modern band? Or are they now a classic band? They've been around for approaching 30 years so I personally don't think "modern" is appropriate.
Well, he did mention King's X in his modern bands, and they've been around longer than DT.
But to answer your question, I think the 80s have always been the dividing line for classic and modern prog. The late 60s and 70s (and what little spilled over into the early 80s) make up the classic era, most of the 80s were a wasteland for prog, and then the 90s began the modern era. Prog bands in the last 10 years or so really aren't doing anything new, so it's hard to separate them too much from the prog of the 90s and early 00s; they all blend together, especially since some of the major modern prog acts are having much more longevity than the classic acts did (from a doing "prog music" standpoint).
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I haven't eard that record, no, but I'll put it on my list. I've been interested in checking his stuff out lately, so I'll do that!
It's really a good album and it's very cheap on googleplay. :tup
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By the way, an interesting information on MP forum, given by himself:
""Lee123: I'm wondering if Mike is going to have the same creative control like he did with DT?"
For the 1st time since 2010, YES!!
It was made very clear and understood before we even started...
With TWD, FC, NMB, TA, MA all being more of a "democracy", the ONLY way i could take on another band (without going insane!) is if I was to have the same level of overall creative control I had in DT"
From that, I'm believing now, if the fans will embrace it, maybe this project will become the main MP band and not only a side project.
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That roughly translates to, "I can't wait to boss people around again." :lol :lol
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Having "creative control" only matters if the creators bring some good stuff to the table. A chef can only make something so good if the ingredients aren't that great. Hopefully with DS on board, there will be some tasty prog metal for MP to pick and choose from, as he does. It'll be interesting to hear what kind of music a seasoned Sherinian will make with Portnoy, nearly 20 years after FII.
-Marc.
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I love how this thread changed from the Shattered Fortress into ann overall discussion of Mike Portnoy :)
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Anyone else hope DT play the entire 12SS but with the Haken drummer?
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I do feel sad for him, yes. Maybe he still gets to go to all the Festivals and watch from the side how big bully Mike takes over his band.
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That roughly translates to, "I can't wait to boss people around again." :lol :lol
Yeah :lol He did seem a little too excited about CREATIVE CONTROL AGAIN MWUAHAHA.
That said, this is cool news, and I'm looking forward to seeing what he comes up with.
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Anyone else hope DT play the entire 12SS but with the Haken drummer?
Two stages.
Only one tune.
And at the end, only one band remains.
Tune in for the next episode of "That MP show".
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Having "creative control" only matters if the creators bring some good stuff to the table.
Yep. I'll wait and see who is in this band before deciding to give it a go or not. I find it hard to believe that a good, prolific songwriter, of which they will need, is willing to join this band under the concession that the drummer gets to call all the shots. Band "dictatorships" only work when the "dictator" is a prolific and great songwriter, ala Steven Wilson or Roger Waters.
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I'll give it a listen like I do with more MP work. It'll be interesting to see what MP and his creative control end up sounding like.
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No reason to not at least check it out. But of course I agree, creative control by MP is by no means a guarantee for quality, and I agree with Kev that it would likely scare away a lot of songwriters.
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Just out of curiosity, is there anybody here, that thinks Eric is just a JP clone, listened to his solo album the great unknown?
If somebody listen to that allbum, I can't believe that will continue to have this opinion.
I haven't heard it, but I never felt like he was a "JP clone." However, with Mike referring to him as precisely that and him embracing it, it's hard to argue the contrary. I guess I'll just enjoy the NM albums he is on and all that playing he does that is decidedly NOT JP-like.
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His solo album is completely different from NMB. It is very heavy, guitar heavy as well.
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Not sure MP's "creative control" in DT isn't being overstated here.
Sure, MP had a ton of control. In DT, I got the impression that he had was the external "face" of the band, as well as a managerial type "producer" presence in the studio. But, even at the height of his control in DT, I also always got the sense that MP had to lean heavily on JP and JR to create the music. MP is not a songwriter, and thus he has always had to defer to the "experts" in the room once he has delivered his overarching message (i.e., "let's do something heavy!", "let's do a ballad", "let's do an epic!"). Unlike, say, Steven Wilson, there's little MP can do about the material and performances his band put down, other than make production suggestions and nitpick.
So in other words, just because MP could have had full creative control, doesn't mean he will have it. MP is not the type of multi-instrumentalist who can bring an entire demo of songs to the table for a band to flesh out. Even with a heightened level of MP control, this project will only be as good as the other songwriters involved.
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re: creative control
>>>Very interesting statement by MP. I'm not sure DT was "controlled" by Mike creatively. To some degree, yes. But JP and JR wrote the majority of the music, with Mike's input on direction, and his lyrics. If that's the same control Mike is going to have in this new prog metal band, where he guides the music being done, and writes a lot of lyrics, OK then.
Obviously the people working with him are good with it and Mike wants something to call "his own." Will be cool to see how it turns out. Could be a huge trainwreck, or it could be amazing.
From my understanding, Mike over the years came up with a couple of riff ideas, but aside from being a lyric writer, just how influential was he in guiding how the music in DT was created. I saw he pretty much directed James on the vocals in some instances (some videos I've seen), but did he do the same with JP and JR? What was the balance of control vs. collaboration in DT with him in the band?
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Not sure MP's "creative control" in DT isn't being overstated here.
Sure, MP had a ton of control. In DT, I got the impression that he had was the external "face" of the band, as well as a managerial type "producer" presence in the studio. But, even at the height of his control in DT, I also always got the sense that MP had to lean heavily on JP and JR to create the music. MP is not a songwriter, and thus he has always had to defer to the "experts" in the room once he has delivered his overarching message (i.e., "let's do something heavy!", "let's do a ballad", "let's do an epic!"). Unlike, say, Steven Wilson, there's little MP can do about the material and performances his band put down, other than make production suggestions and nitpick.
So in other words, just because MP could have had full creative control, doesn't mean he will have it. MP is not the type of multi-instrumentalist who can bring an entire demo of songs to the table for a band to flesh out. Even with a heightened level of MP control, this project will only be as good as the other songwriters involved.
What he said.
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Yeah, I always got the impression that most of his control with DT was related to non-songwriting things (e.g. setlists, fanclub/bootleg releases). When it comes to songwriting I got the impression that for the most part JP and JR were coming up with the riffs and such and MP's contributions related to writing lyrics (and potentially directing James for vocal melodies for his lyrics) and more in arranging the different parts John and Jordan were coming up with. If that's the kind of control he's going back to, he'll only be as good as the the guys he has coming up with riffs and melodies.
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re: creative control
>>>Very interesting statement by MP. I'm not sure DT was "controlled" by Mike creatively. To some degree, yes. But JP and JR wrote the majority of the music, with Mike's input on direction, and his lyrics. If that's the same control Mike is going to have in this new prog metal band, where he guides the music being done, and writes a lot of lyrics, OK then.
Obviously the people working with him are good with it and Mike wants something to call "his own." Will be cool to see how it turns out. Could be a huge trainwreck, or it could be amazing.
From my understanding, Mike over the years came up with a couple of riff ideas, but aside from being a lyric writer, just how influential was he in guiding how the music in DT was created. I saw he pretty much directed James on the vocals in some instances (some videos I've seen), but did he do the same with JP and JR? What was the balance of control vs. collaboration in DT with him in the band?
Agreed with this on the whole, and would add that in terms of direction and overall creative control, it was very much shared between MP and JP (as you with the music itself primarily written by JP and JR). So if he's saying the same level of creative control as in DT, to me that would suggest partnering with someone else (possibly Derek?). If it's actually MP in charge overall, then that's actually more control than he had in DT.
Will be very interesting to see how this pans out...
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Mike Portnoy doesn't job to anyone, BROTHER!
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If the PSMS is anything to go by, I think we´re in for a pleasant surprise. As much as the material they played was 100% covers, Derek´s tone is incredible, and he´s done things that are far more complex than FII since he left the band. I´m excited for this, and can´t wait for the release. Please post updates here - I can´t use Twitter of Facebook at work!
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From that, I'm believing now, if the fans will embrace it, maybe this project will become the main MP band and not only a side project.
I'm not into The Winery Dogs. Are they taking a hiatus or something? I thought that was Portnoy's main band.
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They have a new live DVD which will be out soon, and Will record a new album next year. In the meantime, Kotzen has a new album out and is touring with The Dead Daisies
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From that, I'm believing now, if the fans will embrace it, maybe this project will become the main MP band and not only a side project.
I'm not into The Winery Dogs. Are they taking a hiatus or something? I thought that was Portnoy's main band.
I feel like every band MP has started since leaving DT has been called his "main band" at some point.
Most MP projects are at least 2-3 albums deep now (depending on how you count live albums), which is right around the time period where you'd expect to see a band re-evaluating its future. Given all these projects have had fairly limited success, and most members of these projects have just as reliable revenue streams elsewhere, I wouldn't be surprised if we saw a few more MP bands silently going the way of Adrenaline Mob.
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I read somewhere MP saying that winery dogs is the closer to a main band the he has nowadays (at least before this progmetal band), although, even winery dogs would take a break of one year or so in order to Kotzen would continue to do his solo career and Sheehan could do his other projects, like mr. big (that will record a new album and tour this year).
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I see.
Well, I like Sherinian's Planet X stuff. I haven't checked out much of his solo music. I can't get too excited about yet another upcoming band with Portnoy until I know for sure who is going to be in it.
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I think at this point in MP's life, and I don't blame him, he will stick with a band right to the moment when it run its course, and not longer. MP always has several things cooking at the same time (for better or worse), and he's not gonna waste time on something that doesn't have an obvious future.
I'm not saying TWD is at that point, but it's probably not too far away either.
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I think at this point in MP's life, and I don't blame him, he will stick with a band right to the moment when it run its course, and not longer. MP always has several things cooking at the same time (for better or worse), and he's not gonna waste time on something that doesn't have an obvious future.
I'm not saying TWD is at that point, but it's probably not too far away either.
I agree with you on the last sentence. TWD has been successful to a degree, but it hasn't set the world on fire either. And of course, if you listen to Eddie Trunk, he of course takes every opportunity to say how he put the band together. ::)
TWD has some live record coming out. I imagine that live record might be the last thing folks get for a while. If MP has some good names with his new prog metal band (and having Derek is a good start), I imagine this band might be the one consistent thing he'll have to finish out his career. Having Derek ties it to Dream Theater, which means bigger bookings for live shows, and potentially more opportunities. That was part of the reason I've been pretty forward about MP embracing his past. Doing so potentially gives him even further options, both musically and financially, in the future.
TWD wasn't really my thing (Kotzen is good, Sheehan is good, but TWD just doesn't work for me), and I think a lot of prog fans feel similar. Having Mike back in the prog metal saddle, with Derek with him, will only mean better things. Looking forward to hearing about the lineup. The songwriter (assuming guitarist) and singer will be key. If MP hits a home run on the lineup, I see this band really helping him finish out his career on a high note, artistically. If it's just another double, it'll be cool, but then I agree with you, rumbo, this might be another "two records and out" situation.
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I think at this point in MP's life, and I don't blame him, he will stick with a band right to the moment when it run its course, and not longer. MP always has several things cooking at the same time (for better or worse), and he's not gonna waste time on something that doesn't have an obvious future.
I'm not saying TWD is at that point, but it's probably not too far away either.
Hard to say. I know for me personally, I feel that way. Two albums in, I'm not really interested anymore. Not that their music is bad, but it just doesn't do much for me. And I know I'm not alone. But I am under the impression (and I could be completely wrong here) that there are still plenty out there who do not agree and will still buy anything this group puts out and will go to their shows. Assuming there's still a market for this, and the members enjoy doing it, I don't know that it will have "run its course."
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I think at this point in MP's life, and I don't blame him, he will stick with a band right to the moment when it run its course, and not longer. MP always has several things cooking at the same time (for better or worse), and he's not gonna waste time on something that doesn't have an obvious future.
I'm not saying TWD is at that point, but it's probably not too far away either.
Hard to say. I know for me personally, I feel that way. Two albums in, I'm not really interested anymore. Not that their music is bad, but it just doesn't do much for me. And I know I'm not alone. But I am under the impression (and I could be completely wrong here) that there are still plenty out there who do not agree and will still buy anything this group puts out and will go to their shows. Assuming there's still a market for this, and the members enjoy doing it, I don't know that it will have "run its course."
And that would be me. I listened to both albums yesterday and they are fantastic. I'd definitely buy another and check them out on tour again. I think they have a significantly bigger shot at being commercially successful (if that's something that interests them) than any other of MP's projects.
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Yeah, I mean, they've played well over 170 shows on two album cycles, including getting booked at some pretty high profile festivals like Graspop, Monsters of Rock Cruise (twice), Rocklahoma, and M3. There is definitely demand. If that continues, even if it has tapered off some, I would think that alone would be incentive for them to continue. Time will tell.
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I think at this point in MP's life, and I don't blame him, he will stick with a band right to the moment when it run its course, and not longer. MP always has several things cooking at the same time (for better or worse), and he's not gonna waste time on something that doesn't have an obvious future.
I'm not saying TWD is at that point, but it's probably not too far away either.
Hard to say. I know for me personally, I feel that way. Two albums in, I'm not really interested anymore. Not that their music is bad, but it just doesn't do much for me. And I know I'm not alone. But I am under the impression (and I could be completely wrong here) that there are still plenty out there who do not agree and will still buy anything this group puts out and will go to their shows. Assuming there's still a market for this, and the members enjoy doing it, I don't know that it will have "run its course."
And that would be me. I listened to both albums yesterday and they are fantastic. I'd definitely buy another and check them out on tour again. I think they have a significantly bigger shot at being commercially successful (if that's something that interests them) than any other of MP's projects.
I agree 100%. Their live shows keep getting better and bigger. And both albums are incredible IMO.
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Their first show in Rio was in a sold out 500 seat venue (2013). The second one, last year, was in front of 5,000
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Their first show in Rio was in a sold out 500 seat venue (2013). The second one, last year, was in front of 5,000
Impressive for sure. But I imagine that this prog metal band may do just as well, if not more...
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For the longest time, I always thought MP was only good for 2 albums on any side-projects: LTE only did two (well, because JR joined DT, and their reasoning for not doing LTE 3 was solid at the time), Mike only stuck around for 2 OSI albums (though that was due to tensions with Kevin), and at the time of Neal's leaving TA they had only done two albums. Mike has had some weird luck with doing just two and done in those instances, but at least Transatlantic has since reformed and done two more. I hope he does more with TWD, and at least Flying Colors with working on their third one already, so we're getting there.
Honestly, I've always felt that Neal Morse has been Mike's "main band". Sure, he doesn't have the same kind of control or input as he did in Dream Theater, but his work with Neal on hi solo albums has been so prolific that it's hard to separate Neal from Mike's career, especially since leaving Dream Theater. In the 6-7 years since he left, Mike has done 4 solo albums with Neal/the Neal Morse Band, as well as 1 with Transatlantic, and 2 with Flying Colors, not to mention a TON of touring. I see The Winery Dogs, and other things like Metal Allegiance, as ways of Mike to perform non-prog music, though i definitely do not see them as any attempt at creating a new "main band" for himself.
What awaits us for this new one though could be anything, and if it's a new main band for him, more power to him, but at this point in his life, starting a new band to put more focus on seems like a hard thing to do. How many more albums could he possibly do to make something like this prog-metal supergroup be a true success? How this first album is received will really affect whether or not Mike continues with it in terms of how much effort he'll put into it, just by looking at how successful TWD has been. Unless of course this is all just a passion project and he's not looking for success or fame or recognition - just a chance to write and perform the kind of music he used to play in Dream Theater.
-Marc.
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Along those lines, TSOAD is the first time I've ever seen Mike voice some frustration over his involvement in a Neal project as well. Perhaps that is because TSOAD was more of a collaborative record than previous Neal Morse records, where Neal did all the writing. So whereas Mike may have been able to shrug off disappointments from the less collaborative albums,you can tell it hit him harder this time as he seems to have poured it all into that album, and wanted it to do better.
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Yeah, I always got the impression that most of his control with DT was related to non-songwriting things (e.g. setlists, fanclub/bootleg releases). When it comes to songwriting I got the impression that for the most part JP and JR were coming up with the riffs and such and MP's contributions related to writing lyrics (and potentially directing James for vocal melodies for his lyrics) and more in arranging the different parts John and Jordan were coming up with. If that's the kind of control he's going back to, he'll only be as good as the the guys he has coming up with riffs and melodies.
I'd say that this is a pretty fair assessment of his involvement, altho I'd also add that I think he steers the general direction/mood of the album and I think he probably contributes more musically than most people think (but still far less than JP and JR or any of the other bands he's in). But yeah, this will only be as good as who he brings into the fold to come up with most of the actual riffs and melodies. However, I can't imagine that he's just going to pick some random people out without having really thought things through. Being in the same genre as DT and with Derek aboard, he knows that this band/project will be compared to DT, so he'll really need to make sure that it's of the same quality.
I feel like every band MP has started since leaving DT has been called his "main band" at some point.
Actually that's not true at all. The only bands he's really said were his main bands since leaving DT are AMob and TWD. In several interviews he's always made it abundantly clear that TA and FC were side projects and I'm pretty sure he's said the same about Metal Allegiance. Now that AMob is gone and it's the Neal Morse Band instead of Neal Morse solo, it might be that the NMB has become a main band to him. No clue if this new band/project will become his new main band and/or push aside the others if it really takes hold with the fans. I think he'll probably hold off on making such a statement until things have progressed further and he sees what kind of reaction it gets.
Most MP projects are at least 2-3 albums deep now (depending on how you count live albums), which is right around the time period where you'd expect to see a band re-evaluating its future. Given all these projects have had fairly limited success, and most members of these projects have just as reliable revenue streams elsewhere, I wouldn't be surprised if we saw a few more MP bands silently going the way of Adrenaline Mob.
That's quite possible. As busy as he is, there's only so much time in each day and he'll have to figure out what takes priority and if he can still shoe-horn in the others.
I think at this point in MP's life, and I don't blame him, he will stick with a band right to the moment when it run its course, and not longer. MP always has several things cooking at the same time (for better or worse), and he's not gonna waste time on something that doesn't have an obvious future.
I'm not saying TWD is at that point, but it's probably not too far away either.
I agree that it doesn't make sense for him to stick with something after it becomes clear that it's not worth continuing. And I say that not just because of fan reaction, but also whether he fully believes in it or not. I think TWD will stick around for at least a couple more albums since he does seem to be a firm believer in the band. Time will tell.
And of course, if you listen to Eddie Trunk, he of course takes every opportunity to say how he put the band together. ::)
Oh brother tell me about it. I don't mind Eddie overall, but that is probably one of the most annoying things. Just shut up already - we know you suggested Richie to MP - no need to rehash the story for the umpteenth time!
Along those lines, TSOAD is the first time I've ever seen Mike voice some frustration over his involvement in a Neal project as well. Perhaps that is because TSOAD was more of a collaborative record than previous Neal Morse records, where Neal did all the writing. So whereas Mike may have been able to shrug off disappointments from the less collaborative albums,you can tell it hit him harder this time as he seems to have poured it all into that album, and wanted it to do better.
Interesting - I haven't followed all his interviews tied to TSoaD, but I was under the impression that he was fully into it. I mean he trumpeted that he thinks it's one of the best albums of his career and thinks it's of the same quality as other well known concept albums. What did he say that was frustrating for him? And even then, I think he realizes that things won't go smoothly every time you collaborate, and yet he strives for collaboration wherever possible. He hates bands and albums where everything is just recorded in individual studios and Fed-Exed to the next guy to add his parts. The only times I really remember him voicing frustration in a collaboration was with OSI, and that was because KevMo was apparently very inflexible.
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He was very clearly frustrated with the sales of TSoaD.
https://www.mikeportnoy.com/forum/tm.aspx?high=&m=2978610&mpage=1#2978619
He made two other posts in the thread, one of which was removed.
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I wouldn't read too much into any "frustration" with TSOAD. The only "frustrations" I am aware of are the following, both of which are understandable from his perspective:
(1) During the writing, there was "frustration" or "tension" because of Neal insisting on it being a double album, and Mike initially resisting that very hard because of DT doing a double concept album. Mike no doubt had a visceral reaction to the anticipated fan reaction from the DT side and the inevitable comparisons. But that resolved itself (at least, as far as we know).
(2) Afterward, I seem to recall a bit of "frustration" that the fan response wasn't more than the normal positive reaction to Neal's records. I think he just felt so emotionally invested in this one and felt so strongly about it being "the album of their careers" that he was disappointed that there wasn't more of a universal outpouring from the fans. In other words, I think he was disappointed that the fans didn't necessarily feel the way he did about the album and express that in terms of album sales and concert attendance. Not that either were bad. But I think he was just expecting more.
As far as I'm aware, that's it. And neither are really a big deal.
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I wouldn't read too much into any "frustration" with TSOAD. The only "frustrations" I am aware of are the following, both of which are understandable from his perspective:
(1) During the writing, there was "frustration" or "tension" because of Neal insisting on it being a double album, and Mike initially resisting that very hard because of DT doing a double concept album. Mike no doubt had a visceral reaction to the anticipated fan reaction from the DT side and the inevitable comparisons. But that resolved itself (at least, as far as we know).
The Making of DVD really goes into detail on this. Very interesting takes by both Neal and MP. Both of them were really affected by this discussion. It was their first "big" fight.
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I wouldn't read too much into any "frustration" with TSOAD. The only "frustrations" I am aware of are the following, both of which are understandable from his perspective:
(1) During the writing, there was "frustration" or "tension" because of Neal insisting on it being a double album, and Mike initially resisting that very hard because of DT doing a double concept album. Mike no doubt had a visceral reaction to the anticipated fan reaction from the DT side and the inevitable comparisons. But that resolved itself (at least, as far as we know).
(2) Afterward, I seem to recall a bit of "frustration" that the fan response wasn't more than the normal positive reaction to Neal's records. I think he just felt so emotionally invested in this one and felt so strongly about it being "the album of their careers" that he was disappointed that there wasn't more of a universal outpouring from the fans. In other words, I think he was disappointed that the fans didn't necessarily feel the way he did about the album and express that in terms of album sales and concert attendance. Not that either were bad. But I think he was just expecting more.
As far as I'm aware, that's it. And neither are really a big deal.
Exactly. Skeever, the post that you're referring to has nothing to do with the songwriting or collaboration. As Bosk said, that frustration was purely due to the lack of fan reaction, nothing more.
And regarding the debate between him and Neal, I'm aware of that too, but as Bosk said, it had more to do with the inevitable comparisons that would come up since DT had just released The Astonishing rather than anything else. Had they been working on TSoaD back in 2014 instead of 2016, you can be sure that there wouldn't have been any argument between them.
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Yeah, Mike over-hyped TSOAD to the point of calling it the album of their careers, but, even though it is really good, it ended up being just a longer version of a regular NM album. Same sound, same style and everything.
Not trying to start a comparison war here, but TA had much more experimentation and different/new sounding elements for DT than TSOAD had for Neal Morse or NMB in general.
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Exactly. Skeever, the post that you're referring to has nothing to do with the songwriting or collaboration. As Bosk said, that frustration was purely due to the lack of fan reaction, nothing more.
I never said the frustration had to do with songwriting or collaboration.
I said that maybe the fan response frustrated Mike more because he was more of a collaborator on this one. He seems to have wanted fans to see TSOAD as more than just another Neal album, and according to the numbers, that wasn't the case.
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I didn't get that at all, for two reasons. I don't think he was "more of a collaborator" on this one than on others. And I also never got that he was all that frustrated--just a bit disappointed, for the reason I mentioned.
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I never said the frustration had to do with songwriting or collaboration.
My bad. Since the thread was talking about collaboration, I completely missed the words "the sales of" in your post. Nevermind. :P
I didn't get that at all, for two reasons. I don't think he was "more of a collaborator" on this one than on others. And I also never got that he was all that frustrated--just a bit disappointed, for the reason I mentioned.
I agree that he is disappointed, but not so sure about him being more of a collaborator on this one than on previous NM albums. It is now the "Neal Morse Band" instead of just "Neal Morse" which suggests that the rest of the guys in the band are much more a part of the writing process then before.
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Haha, no problem :tup
And yes, I thought the whole point of the change from "Neal Morse" to "Neal Morse Band" was to try and formalize the greater level of contribution from the rest of the guys.
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And yes, I thought the whole point of the change from "Neal Morse" to "Neal Morse Band" was to try and formalize the greater level of contribution from the rest of the guys.
I think that is definitely true for Eric and Bill (and, to a lesser extent, Randy perhaps?). I didn't bet the sense that Mike was necessarily contributing more. But I could be mistaken.
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MP's comment on his own forum actually somewhat surprised me. He of all musicians that I know, as a music lover, should know that you can't "plan" acceptance of an album. You throw it out there, and it either sticks or not. There was a bit of a " 'fans' " (you know, when MP quotes the word to indicate the "lesser fans") undertone to it I feel.
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I can't imagine that Christian Prog Rock is in high demand. I'm assuming MP understands that after almost 20 years with Neal.
That being said, I think the MP's best work has been with Neal Morse and I hope he continues to collaborate with him.
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I don't know how Mike can expect an album that says "The Neal Morse Band" to sell better than an album that says "Neal Morse".
Also, most of TA's stuff is written by Morse. I think, the musicians in FC have a little more input but most of it still comes from Neal.
I guess everything that has Neal involved will always sound like Neal.
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I don't know how Mike can expect an album that says "The Neal Morse Band" to sell better than an album that says "Neal Morse".
Also, most of TA's stuff is written by Morse. I think, the musicians in FC have a little more input but most of it still comes from Neal.
I guess everything that has Neal involved will always sound like Neal.
I don't follow it closely enough to know who writes who in the Neal Morse-related stuff, but always assumed it was Neal, and not surprisingly, much of it sounds similar.
This is why I really do think Eric Gillette (is that is name) probably is the guitarist for MP's new prog metal group. MP likely wouldn;t be calling him "baby JP" (or whatever nickname he gave him) had he not been. It's all a setup for the project.
Can Eric write? I know nothing about him, except for Shattered Fortress (where he played like a monster, so he can certainly play).
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I don't know how Mike can expect an album that says "The Neal Morse Band" to sell better than an album that says "Neal Morse".
Also, most of TA's stuff is written by Morse. I think, the musicians in FC have a little more input but most of it still comes from Neal.
I guess everything that has Neal involved will always sound like Neal.
I don't follow it closely enough to know who writes who in the Neal Morse-related stuff, but always assumed it was Neal, and not surprisingly, much of it sounds similar.
Unfortunately, that is one of those Internet myths that has perpetuated itself. Along the lines of, "Mike Pornoy did EVERYTHING in DT. He wrote the songs, interacted with the fans, called the shots--EVERYTHING! That's why they were so metal." Etc. Yeah, Neal has a distinct style and sound that makes anything he plays on pretty recognizable. And he has been an active writer in pretty much every project he has been involved in. But in Transatlantic, for example, he did NOT dominate the vast majority of the writing as the poster you quoted erroneously state. That's been proven elsewhere. And I know you don't follow his projects, so that's why I am clarifying.
This is why I really do think Eric Gillette (is that is name) probably is the guitarist for MP's new prog metal group. MP likely wouldn;t be calling him "baby JP" (or whatever nickname he gave him) had he not been. It's all a setup for the project.
It could be. But, honestly, whether he is or isn't part of the project, I think Mike's comments were simply yet one of many, many examples of him just saying whatever comes to his mind without any filter whatsoever or any thought to how it will be perceived. I don't think it was necessarily a setup for the project at all. But I could be wrong.
Can Eric write? I know nothing about him, except for Shattered Fortress (where he played like a monster, so he can certainly play).
He wrote and co-wrote a few things on Neal's last album, and I really like his contributions there. I have seen it said that his solo album is heavier (and is pretty good), but I haven't heard it.
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He wrote and co-wrote a few things on Neal's last album, and I really like his contributions there. I have seen it said that his solo album is heavier (and is pretty good), but I haven't heard it.
Yes, his latest solo album is very heavy and the music itself is pretty good. I do think his weakest point is the singing on his album. Aside that, the music and songwriting are pretty top notch.
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(1) During the writing, there was "frustration" or "tension" because of Neal insisting on it being a double album, and Mike initially resisting that very hard because of DT doing a double concept album. Mike no doubt had a visceral reaction to the anticipated fan reaction from the DT side and the inevitable comparisons. But that resolved itself (at least, as far as we know).
As far as I'm aware, that's it. And neither are really a big deal.
I have seen precisely 0 posts anywhere comparing the two or " MP is copying DT " type posts.
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Oh, good. I'm sure Mike Portnoy will be relieved that you didn't see them.
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:rollin
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(1) During the writing, there was "frustration" or "tension" because of Neal insisting on it being a double album, and Mike initially resisting that very hard because of DT doing a double concept album. Mike no doubt had a visceral reaction to the anticipated fan reaction from the DT side and the inevitable comparisons. But that resolved itself (at least, as far as we know).
As far as I'm aware, that's it. And neither are really a big deal.
I have seen precisely 0 posts anywhere comparing the two or " MP is copying DT " type posts.
It's the whole proximity-in-time deal, when two things that can be viewed as having SOME connection come out in a relatively short time-span, be it using similar ideas or concepts, or just having a tangential connection between people involved. It's like when Deep Impact and Armageddon came out, or A Bug's Life and Ants, things like that. I think Mike was just worried about the POTENTIAL comparisons fans would make if Neal released a double-album concept within a year of Dream Theater, and because they were Mike's former band and all, that perhaps fans would think Mike had urged Neal to do a double "because Dream Theater just did one". To be honest, when I first heard TSOAD was going to be a concept album, and a double at that, I had some worries that that was the case, but I'm glad to hear that Mike was pretty reluctant to make it a double, and I don't blame him. It was a bit unreal to see their tension on the making of DVD as their work has never had any sort of tension, through so many albums and different bands, but I guess this one time, it just really came to a breaking point for Mike and he just had to let it go.
Well, now that MP is doing a prog metal band with Derek Sherinian, I'm sure some comparisons will be made...I just hope his album and song titles don't lend themselves to comparisons. (Please don't call the first album When Mike And Derek Unite)
-Marc.
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Oh, good. I'm sure Mike Portnoy will be relieved that you didn't see them.
Dunno what your point is... I was expecting a lot of backlash for MP doing a double concept but i've not seen any.
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(1) During the writing, there was "frustration" or "tension" because of Neal insisting on it being a double album, and Mike initially resisting that very hard because of DT doing a double concept album. Mike no doubt had a visceral reaction to the anticipated fan reaction from the DT side and the inevitable comparisons. But that resolved itself (at least, as far as we know).
As far as I'm aware, that's it. And neither are really a big deal.
I have seen precisely 0 posts anywhere comparing the two or " MP is copying DT " type posts.
Sadly, I think it goes back to the point (and MP's point) that DT fans and the chunk-of-MP's-greater-fanbase-who-don't-usually-check-out-Neal decided not to check out TSOAD. For the most part, the album flew under the radar for non-Neal fans. Thus, not much talk.
Now, say this new supergroup had already been formed, and they decided to do a double album with the world "Dream" in the title... that would have definitely turned some DT fan heads.
But that's all just speculation. :lol
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Something I haven't seen mentioned here is that TSOAD is the best selling album by NM ever!!! And show attendance has been really great more SOLD OUT shows than ever for a NM tour , plus, touring cycle is the biggest NM has ever done.
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I've listened to the new Neal Morse Band album a few times.. It's really good but, as someone who really isn't religious, I cant really get too too into it. Especially since I am big on lyrics and what not. Is it the album of their careers? Nah. I still take Neal era Spock's Beard, TA, FC and of course Dream Theater of Neal Morse / Neal Morse Band material.
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Sadly, I think it goes back to the point (and MP's point) that DT fans and the chunk-of-MP's-greater-fanbase-who-don't-usually-check-out-Neal decided not to check out TSOAD. For the most part, the album flew under the radar for non-Neal fans. Thus, not much talk.
As someone else said, if they really intended to reach outside the usual circles, naming it "The Neal Morse Band" was a huge shot in the foot.
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Something I haven't seen mentioned here is that TSOAD is the best selling album by NM ever!!! And show attendance has been really great more SOLD OUT shows than ever for a NM tour , plus, touring cycle is the biggest NM has ever done.
As much I love Neal Morse's music, and the new album, and the show I saw six weeks ago, selling out shows when you are playing to venues where the capacity is only a couple hundred really isn't much to brag about.
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Something I haven't seen mentioned here is that TSOAD is the best selling album by NM ever!!! And show attendance has been really great more SOLD OUT shows than ever for a NM tour , plus, touring cycle is the biggest NM has ever done.
As much I love Neal Morse's music, and the new album, and the show I saw six weeks ago, selling out shows when you are playing to venues where the capacity is only a couple hundred really isn't much to brag about.
The same venues he has played before and never has sold out, doing it this time, with his best aelling album EVER, yes, to me, it is something to brag about
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Do you have any numbers on how many records TSoaD has sold? I'm curious what best selling for an artist like Neal Morse means.
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Do you have any numbers on how many records TSoaD has sold? I'm curious what best selling for an artist like Neal Morse means.
I don't have the numbers but on his latest IC letter he said it was his best selling album at Radiant Records, I guess he is. It counting Amazon and the other outlets. I will have to ask him now. If he replies I will let you know.
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Depending on how sales are counted, sometimes (and according to RIAA certification), each double album sale counts as "2". Radiant is Neal's own fiefdom, so I'm sure he can count the sales however he wants.
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Speaking of who might be involved in MP's project, did anyone else see this?
https://twitter.com/Haken_Official/status/838170562484703234
Not that we know (almost certain) that Derek is involved, that would rule Diego out. My bet would be either Conner or Ross, but I guess Conner has more chances, since he isn't in any other side projects, or at least not that I can remember.
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Conner is american, right? He still lives in USA?
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By the way, Thomas MacLean would be awesome too :tup
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Conner is american, right? He still lives in USA?
He still lives in the USA, I think.
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Yeah Conner is based in the States, so definite potential candidate.
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Okay, here's a guess:
Portnoy
Sherinian
Connor Green on bass (Haken)
Some vocalist
Eric Gillette
I SAID IT FIRST :biggrin:
(Sooner or later that might just as well turn out wrong of course)
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Pretty sure if Haken guys and Gillette are involved, I wouldn't have a ton of interest.
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Gillette - the best a prog supergroup can get ?
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Pretty sure if Haken guys and Gillette are involved, I wouldn't have a ton of interest.
My interest probably wouldn't change, but
Gillette - the best a prog supergroup can get ?
not just that, but Haken members don't really make this a supergroup IMO. Neither do any of the other names mentioned. I think this band would be better off not referring to themselves as a supergroup.
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Gillette - the best a prog supergroup can get ?
I approve.
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Okay, here's a guess:
Portnoy
Sherinian
Connor Green on bass (Haken)
Some vocalist
Eric Gillette
I SAID IT FIRST :biggrin:
(Sooner or later that might just as well turn out wrong of course)
Band name: Theater of Dreams
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Album title: Exactly the album you'd expect.
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Speaking of who might be involved in MP's project, did anyone else see this?
https://twitter.com/Haken_Official/status/838170562484703234
Not that we know (almost certain) that Derek is involved, that would rule Diego out. My bet would be either Conner or Ross, but I guess Conner has more chances, since he isn't in any other side projects, or at least not that I can remember.
Relieving, honestly. I like Haken well enough, and they were a great choice to play with Mike on the cruise for many reasons, but they're already doing enough on their own. I'm more interested in hearing this project if it's made up of people who don't have an clear cut "day job".
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I know some hate hypotheticals, but here is an interesting question:
What if something happened in the next few months where Mike Mangini decided to leave Dream Theater and they asked Portnoy to rejoin the band? Would he simply chuck his new prog metal band in the thrash?
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I know some hate hypotheticals, but here is an interesting question:
What if something happened in the next few months where Mike Mangini decided to leave Dream Theater and they asked Portnoy to rejoin the band? Would he simply chuck his new prog metal band in the thrash?
Blabbermouth headline: MANGINI LEAVES DREAM THEATER, PORTNOY FORMS THRASH BAND
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I know some hate hypotheticals, but here is an interesting question:
What if something happened in the next few months where Mike Mangini decided to leave Dream Theater and they asked Portnoy to rejoin the band? Would he simply chuck his new prog metal band in the thrash?
I don't see why it would be one or the other. If that happened his main focus would obviously be Dream Theater, but he always had time and would still do this project I'm sure, but I doubt it would get the time and support it might otherwise.
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I know some hate hypotheticals, but here is an interesting question:
What if something happened in the next few months where Mike Mangini decided to leave Dream Theater and they asked Portnoy to rejoin the band? Would he simply chuck his new prog metal band in the thrash?
Honestly this is one of the many reasons why DT will probably never have MP come back even if MM left. Even if MP prioritized Dream Theater, there would always be this underlying tension that his mind was elsewhere or if some great opportunity came up they may have to pass because he had a Metal Allegiance show scheduled in the Ukraine or something.
Even though Jordan was joking when he said, "He has no time for us. He's in so many bands." I have to wonder if Jordan wasn't being a little bit more than half serious.
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Album title: Exactly the album you'd expect.
Album title: Syncopated Hi-Hats.
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Gillette - the best a prog supergroup can get ?
:clap:
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Gillette - the best a prog supergroup can get ?
If this were a statement coming from JP, Steve Morse, Vai, and one those dudes I would not argue, but... send me a link to purchase your records
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Eric Gillette posted a video on his Facebook page in which he plays a part of a Planet X song (Derek Sherinian was the keyboardist for that band). Coincidence? I guess not. He's part of this.
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If Eric Gillette is the primary guitarist, is it really a super group? The guy has skill, but he's nowhere near a superstar, even in his own niche.
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Could you really make a progressive metal supergroup then?
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Should be possible, given the talent out there. The trick would be not to bunch all the 'usual suspects' together. I'd start salivating with the combo Petrucci/Sherinian/Rullo/insert bassplayer (Kamiband's BOH?)/insert vocalist for some reason.
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I think Eric would be a great choice! He's already very talented and clearly still growing.
And about the label " supergroup"... C'mon, folks, it's just MP promoting it!
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I´m fine with MP having another group, SUPER or not SUPER. As long as the songs are good - and that has been the case with FC, TWD, parts of AMOB, NMB, TA, LTE etc. etc.
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I've always understood "supergroup" to simply refer to collaborations of artists from other, established, bands. I've never considered it to confer any expectations that those members should be household names or anything.
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I've always understood "supergroup" to simply refer to collaborations of artists from other, established, bands. I've never considered it to confer any expectations that those members should be household names or anything.
THIS 100%
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I know some hate hypotheticals, but here is an interesting question:
What if something happened in the next few months where Mike Mangini decided to leave Dream Theater and they asked Portnoy to rejoin the band? Would he simply chuck his new prog metal band in the thrash?
Blabbermouth headline: MANGINI LEAVES DREAM THEATER, PORTNOY FORMS THRASH BAND
Well played. Laughed out loud ;D
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I've always understood "supergroup" to simply refer to collaborations of artists from other, established, bands. I've never considered it to confer any expectations that those members should be household names or anything.
Yeah, that's exactly what I thought as well.
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Let the hype machine start again! He just can't help himself.
Mike Portnoy
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Some serious magic happening here in the studio! Wow... Can't wait for you all to hear what's brewing!! Be patient everyone...
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I've always understood "supergroup" to simply refer to collaborations of artists from other, established, bands. I've never considered it to confer any expectations that those members should be household names or anything.
For me, supergroups include:
Asia
UK
The Firm
Bozzio Levin Stevens
Flying Colors
Steve Vai's The Breed (with McAlpine, Sheehan and Donati)
Planet X (first iteration with McAlpine)
Levin Ruddess Minnemann
If Portnoy's supergroup already includes Sherinian, they need one more name. Connor is good, but he's not yet there.
Gillette is a Youtube sensation. Not really a star.
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Am I the only one who was amused that this sentenced
Can't wait for you all to hear what's brewing!!
was followed immediately by this sentence?
Be patient everyone...
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Almost everytime a supergroup is announced as a supergroup it doesn't meet the expectations. So I'd rather MP just plays with some musicians that can create good music, regardless of names and superstar-status.
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Almost everytime a supergroup is announced as a supergroup it doesn't meet the expectations. So I'd rather MP just plays with some musicians that can create good music, regardless of names and superstar-status.
By all indications, that appears to be the case, so what's the problem?
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I don't need the guitar player in this project to be some big ass name, or even the next JP or Guthrie Govan. Good prog music can be written without acrobatics. Case in point, I find Govan's playing best when it is tempered by SW.
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Almost everytime a supergroup is announced as a supergroup it doesn't meet the expectations. So I'd rather MP just plays with some musicians that can create good music, regardless of names and superstar-status.
By all indications, that appears to be the case, so what's the problem?
The use of the term supergroup.
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I don't need the guitar player in this project to be some big ass name, or even the next JP or Guthrie Govan. Good prog music can be written without acrobatics. Case in point, I find Govan's playing best when it is tempered by SW.
Have you heard anything by Aristocrats? Their first record features some great playing by mister Govan.
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Almost everytime a supergroup is announced as a supergroup it doesn't meet the expectations. So I'd rather MP just plays with some musicians that can create good music, regardless of names and superstar-status.
By all indications, that appears to be the case, so what's the problem?
The use of the term supergroup.
Well, sorry, but that's a dumb thing to be bothered by. Why can't you accept that the band is whatever it is, and just wait and see whether the music itself is any good instead of complaining about the terminology Mike chooses to describe the band?
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I don't need the guitar player in this project to be some big ass name, or even the next JP or Guthrie Govan. Good prog music can be written without acrobatics. Case in point, I find Govan's playing best when it is tempered by SW.
Have you heard anything by Aristocrats? Their first record features some great playing by mister Govan.
Oh, I really like the Aristocrats! It's just that, choosing between the Aristocrats and his playing on HCE, I prefer the latter. He's a bit like JR where those fast figures roll off his hands a bit too easily, so they tend to get overused.
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I know some hate hypotheticals, but here is an interesting question:
What if something happened in the next few months where Mike Mangini decided to leave Dream Theater and they asked Portnoy to rejoin the band? Would he simply chuck his new prog metal band in the thrash?
That is a good question and one that crossed my mind. Honestly, it's too hard to say, but I'd imagine he'd try to juggle both. Then again, since we're dealing with hypotheticals, could you imagine if it ended up being a similar situation to Yes and ABWH back in the late 80s leading to a Union-type lineup? Not that it's likely, but then again, who would've expected that to happen with Yes back in the day?
Honestly this is one of the many reasons why DT will probably never have MP come back even if MM left. Even if MP prioritized Dream Theater, there would always be this underlying tension that his mind was elsewhere or if some great opportunity came up they may have to pass because he had a Metal Allegiance show scheduled in the Ukraine or something.
That is always a possibility, but maybe not. Keep in mind that he did juggle things properly for roughly 10 years while he was still in DT. DT just always was the priority and everything else fit inbetween. Not to say that maybe there was a missed opportunity or two for DT while he was in the band, but I'd imagine those would be rare. DT's not the type of band to do a single gig or two in some far-flung country without already having a proper tour and schedule established that it could fit within.
Even though Jordan was joking when he said, "He has no time for us. He's in so many bands." I have to wonder if Jordan wasn't being a little bit more than half serious.
Good point.
I've always understood "supergroup" to simply refer to collaborations of artists from other, established, bands. I've never considered it to confer any expectations that those members should be household names or anything.
Agreed. Outside of prog circles, few knew who Neal Morse, Roine Stoldt and Pete Trewavas were and yet I don't think anyone batted an eyelash when that was announced as a supergroup. However...
Almost everytime a supergroup is announced as a supergroup it doesn't meet the expectations. So I'd rather MP just plays with some musicians that can create good music, regardless of names and superstar-status.
I'll agree with this. I'm sure the music will be of great quality - aside from AMob, MP doesn't seem to be a person who gets involved with stuff that's of meh quality. But as soon as you hype it up like he's doing here, it does set a certain expectation about it that wouldn't be there otherwise and may be difficult to live up to, even tho it's a great album in and of it's own right. Not that it will affect how I like or dislike it, but it is a bit concerning for others that might take issue with it.
Am I the only one who was amused that this sentenced
Can't wait for you all to hear what's brewing!!
was followed immediately by this sentence?
Be patient everyone...
Good call!
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Honestly this is one of the many reasons why DT will probably never have MP come back even if MM left. Even if MP prioritized Dream Theater, there would always be this underlying tension that his mind was elsewhere or if some great opportunity came up they may have to pass because he had a Metal Allegiance show scheduled in the Ukraine or something.
That is always a possibility, but maybe not. Keep in mind that he did juggle things properly for roughly 10 years while he was still in DT. DT just always was the priority and everything else fit inbetween. Not to say that maybe there was a missed opportunity or two for DT while he was in the band, but I'd imagine those would be rare. DT's not the type of band to do a single gig or two in some far-flung country without already having a proper tour and schedule established that it could fit within.
Even though Jordan was joking when he said, "He has no time for us. He's in so many bands." I have to wonder if Jordan wasn't being a little bit more than half serious.
Good point.
I dunno. I'm speculating here, but I get the impression that at least some of the band members weren't happy with the quantity of outside projects Mike had going on. I don't know that to be the case, and I don't feel that it is my place to ask that sort of thing. But that's the feeling I get. But if that is the case, then you have to understand the difference in relationship dynamics now vs. then. When you are in a relationship with someone, if they are continuing to engage in something that bothers you, you may still tolerate it for the sake of preserving the relationship. You sacrifice certain things for the sake of continuing on and being happy. But it's different if you don't have that relationship and you are considering whether you want to take on someone's baggage that you don't like and entering into a relationship with them. So what I'm saying is, if they didn't like Mike being involved in so many side projects (again, merely an assumption), I wouldn't just rely on past history to assume it would all be fine going forward if he wanted to come back.
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I'm speculating here, but I get the impression that at least some of the band members weren't happy with the quantity of outside projects Mike had going on. I don't know that to be the case, and I don't feel that it is my place to ask that sort of thing. But that's the feeling I get. But if that is the case, then you have to understand the difference in relationship dynamics now vs. then. When you are in a relationship with someone, if they are continuing to engage in something that bothers you, you may still tolerate it for the sake of preserving the relationship. You sacrifice certain things for the sake of continuing on and being happy. But it's different if you don't have that relationship and you are considering whether you want to take on someone's baggage that you don't like and entering into a relationship with them. So what I'm saying is, if they didn't like Mike being involved in so many side projects (again, merely an assumption), I wouldn't just rely on past history to assume it would all be fine going forward if he wanted to come back.
That is a possibility, and I remember JP talking about how he got a bit concerned when MP did the album with A7X and then followed that up with doing the tour. But aside from that, I don't think any of his other side-projects or activities bothered the band much since they were not of the same popularity level as A7X, which could command more of MP's attention and potentially take away time from DT.
The only other issue I could imagine them having is to make sure that he had enough energy to give 100% towards DT. But in that regard, I think MP always did, given how involved he was with most aspects of DT. In fact, I think it was his giving so much to DT and his lack of delegating some of those responsibilities that lead to his being burned out with DT. I know one thing that MP and/or maybe other guys mentioned in past interviews is that when they aren't actively involved with DT matters (primarily in the studio to record an album or to perform live), what each guy does with his spare time is his own business, and they don't get involved with each other much then. So if MP decided to record an album or go on tour with one of his side-projects as opposed to creating new iOS apps, working on designing new guitars, chilling at home or doing whatever else, what do they care as long as it doesn't affect them or the DT business machine? So that's why I would question how much his outside projects bothered the other guys.
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Yeah, I agree with the general principle that if it didn't take away at all from DT, it objectively shouldn't be a concern for anyone other than MP. But that still doesn't account for human nature. If it subjectively did bother some or all of the members (hypothetically), then it simply is what it is. And even if that might not be the most rational reaction to Mike's outside work, that isn't to say that the reaction still couldn't have happened. I mean, I know I'm not telling you something you don't already know, but I think it bears actually spelling out for sake of this discussion.
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The term "supergroup" was always understood by me to just be a term used to drive up hype on something. As a journalist, I used it myself from time to time. I don't put much stock in it as a fan, nowadays. I mean, having Mike, Derek, and some other guys that were or are in groups that were popular (or are popular) in prog and other genres of music, is, well, going to be described as such.
I'd just ignore it, and forget about the characterization.
As for the "what happens if MM quits DT" scenario, I have two thoughts:
1. If that happened, I don't think DT would ask MP, even though that is personally what I'd want to have happen. Time heals wounds, but it seems from an outsider's perspective that MP and JP have some deep wounds that I'm not sure would heal enough to make it happen.
2. If MP DID return to Dream Theater, I think this current new band he has constructed, no matter where it is, would cease. It would be redundant, and I think everyone would realize that. At the very least, it would be turned from a band into a "project." Again, just my opinion and speculation.
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If MP rejoined DT - I don't think it would be long before he just settled back into his "my baby" routine.
He might take a backseat for a while but i don't think he could stay there for long.
The album production might improve though - even though The Astonishing sounds pretty good and is definitely the best sounding of the Mangini era.
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1. If that happened, I don't think DT would ask MP, even though that is personally what I'd want to have happen. Time heals wounds, but it seems from an outsider's perspective that MP and JP have some deep wounds that I'm not sure would heal enough to make it happen.
JP has always been quiet and polite in interviews, my completely personal assumption, just a gut feeling, is that it's not that JP may feel personally at odds with Portnoy, like it seems JLB and Myung are. Once again, my completely unfounded sensation is that, if at all, JP is hurt and let down by his longtime buddy leaving the band, the one that started it with him at Berkley. I don't think that the person JP doesn't or wouldn't get along with the person Mike Portnoy, I get the feeling that he's very let down and hurt that one of those who were there since day 1 decided he had enough of the band that defined their entire lives and carreer.
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JP has always been quiet and polite in interviews, my completely personal assumption, just a gut feeling, is that it's not that JP may feel personally at odds with Portnoy, like it seems JLB and Myung are. Once again, my completely unfounded sensation is that, if at all, JP is hurt and let down by his longtime buddy leaving the band, the one that started it with him at Berkley. I don't think that the person JP doesn't or wouldn't get along with the person Mike Portnoy, I get the feeling that he's very let down and hurt that one of those who were there since day 1 decided he had enough of the band that defined their entire lives and carreer.
Good post. That's always been my read of JP regarding this situation as well.
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Well, when you sue someone (as MP did, I believe), it's tough to mend fences. If I recall correctly, JR and MP are on good terms. But I think it's understandable if JLB, JP and JM have some resentment. However, I have recently (I think in the DT fan club interview?) seen JLB talk highly of MP, so who knows.
Time heals wounds, and you never say never. But personally, I'm pretty excited for this new band from MP with DS. I am hoping I really enjoy the singer, because that usually drives my interest in bands.
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JP has always been quiet and polite in interviews, my completely personal assumption, just a gut feeling, is that it's not that JP may feel personally at odds with Portnoy, like it seems JLB and Myung are. Once again, my completely unfounded sensation is that, if at all, JP is hurt and let down by his longtime buddy leaving the band, the one that started it with him at Berkley. I don't think that the person JP doesn't or wouldn't get along with the person Mike Portnoy, I get the feeling that he's very let down and hurt that one of those who were there since day 1 decided he had enough of the band that defined their entire lives and carreer.
Yeah, I think that part of why there's the hard feelings is because of the feelings of betrayal, altho JP is also more focused on the business end of the band, and the sting in the wallet from having to pay MP what he was owed was probably pretty painful too.
Well, when you sue someone (as MP did, I believe), it's tough to mend fences.
As far as I know, there never was an actual lawsuit - if I'm not mistaken it was procedural stuff that was needed to get the ball rolling.
I have recently (I think in the DT fan club interview?) seen JLB talk highly of MP, so who knows.
Yeah, that was the DT World interview that Noxon posted where JL was reminiscing about the old days. I would love to have seen that interview continue in that direction and for him to have pursued that line of questioning with JL some more (about his relationship with MP) but it didn't happen. But even tho JL spoke well about MP at that moment, I'm not convinced that there's been any improvement between the two of them.
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Honestly this is one of the many reasons why DT will probably never have MP come back even if MM left. Even if MP prioritized Dream Theater, there would always be this underlying tension that his mind was elsewhere or if some great opportunity came up they may have to pass because he had a Metal Allegiance show scheduled in the Ukraine or something.
That is always a possibility, but maybe not. Keep in mind that he did juggle things properly for roughly 10 years while he was still in DT. DT just always was the priority and everything else fit inbetween. Not to say that maybe there was a missed opportunity or two for DT while he was in the band, but I'd imagine those would be rare. DT's not the type of band to do a single gig or two in some far-flung country without already having a proper tour and schedule established that it could fit within.
Even though Jordan was joking when he said, "He has no time for us. He's in so many bands." I have to wonder if Jordan wasn't being a little bit more than half serious.
Good point.
I dunno. I'm speculating here, but I get the impression that at least some of the band members weren't happy with the quantity of outside projects Mike had going on. I don't know that to be the case, and I don't feel that it is my place to ask that sort of thing. But that's the feeling I get. But if that is the case, then you have to understand the difference in relationship dynamics now vs. then. When you are in a relationship with someone, if they are continuing to engage in something that bothers you, you may still tolerate it for the sake of preserving the relationship. You sacrifice certain things for the sake of continuing on and being happy. But it's different if you don't have that relationship and you are considering whether you want to take on someone's baggage that you don't like and entering into a relationship with them. So what I'm saying is, if they didn't like Mike being involved in so many side projects (again, merely an assumption), I wouldn't just rely on past history to assume it would all be fine going forward if he wanted to come back.
Props for writing this post without using the word marriage.
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Mawiage, is what bwings us togethaa today.
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I think Eric would be a great choice! He's already very talented and clearly still growing.
And about the label " supergroup"... C'mon, folks, it's just MP promoting it!
Yep. You can call just about any group that features a musician from a pre-existing band a supergroup. Damn Yankees had a drummer no one had ever heard or and had never played with anyone, yet they were still called a supergroup. It's just a word used for hype and promotion.
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I think at this point we can just assume that any group MP makes in the future will be a supergroup.
I mean, he's not just going to find non-semi-famous musicians.
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I don't need the guitar player in this project to be some big ass name, or even the next JP or Guthrie Govan. Good prog music can be written without acrobatics. Case in point, I find Govan's playing best when it is tempered by SW.
I'm a huge Guthrie fan and I completely agree with you. His best work has been with SW.
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Well, when you sue someone (as MP did, I believe), it's tough to mend fences. If I recall correctly, JR and MP are on good terms. But I think it's understandable if JLB, JP and JM have some resentment. However, I have recently (I think in the DT fan club interview?) seen JLB talk highly of MP, so who knows.
As far as I know, they haven't talked a word to each other since MP left.
Time heals wounds, and you never say never. But personally, I'm pretty excited for this new band from MP with DS. I am hoping I really enjoy the singer, because that usually drives my interest in bands.
Funny, there was just a discussion about the importance of the singer compared to the musicians in the Spock's Beard thread :D
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I find these discussions about how JP may or may not feel about MP after 7 years beyond hypothetical. A lot of stuff has happened since, it's absolutely impossible to even have the slightest inkling.
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I've gotta say I'd be curious to hear what a writing team of Derek, Eric Gillette and Mike could come up with, if Eric is indeed the guitar player. Grabbed both of his solo albums last night and I'm listening to them at work today. I like what I hear so far, and it's a fair bit heavier than what he plays with NMB.
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Count me in as one who is ready to stop using the term "Supergroup" any time a couple of guys from different bands get together.
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On the instagram-account 'robbiegennet' (a keyboard tech, I suppose) there is a video of Derek's rig for this gig, while two guitar players practise a unison. I couldn't recognise their voices, but possibly someone on here will.
So two guitar players seems to be verified, by that video. That means double the speculation! :lol
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pls pls pls pls be Michael Romeo :hefdaddy :hefdaddy :hefdaddy
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??? I would be shocked if Portnoy did a project with Michael Romeo.
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I hope not. His tone is one of my impediments to really getting into SX.
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For what is worth, i think is almost impossible that he's involved. Just wishful thinking. :lol
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On the instagram-account 'robbiegennet' (a keyboard tech, I suppose) there is a video of Derek's rig for this gig, while two guitar players practise a unison. I couldn't recognise their voices, but possibly someone on here will.
So two guitar players seems to be verified, by that video. That means double the speculation! :lol
Could you please share the link with us? :smiley:
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On the instagram-account 'robbiegennet' (a keyboard tech, I suppose) there is a video of Derek's rig for this gig, while two guitar players practise a unison. I couldn't recognise their voices, but possibly someone on here will.
So two guitar players seems to be verified, by that video. That means double the speculation! :lol
Could you please share the link with us? :smiley:
https://www.instagram.com/p/BRbqvcuD6h6/?taken-by=robbiegennet (https://www.instagram.com/p/BRbqvcuD6h6/?taken-by=robbiegennet)
This should work
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On the instagram-account 'robbiegennet' (a keyboard tech, I suppose) there is a video of Derek's rig for this gig, while two guitar players practise a unison. I couldn't recognise their voices, but possibly someone on here will.
So two guitar players seems to be verified, by that video. That means double the speculation! :lol
Could you please share the link with us? :smiley:
https://www.instagram.com/p/BRbqvcuD6h6/?taken-by=robbiegennet (https://www.instagram.com/p/BRbqvcuD6h6/?taken-by=robbiegennet)
This should work
Thank you!
I migh be wrong, but that sounds like Derek and a guitarist practicing, not two guitars. Derek always uses guitar-like patches and gear, that's why he tends to sound like a guitarist when he plays leads. Also, that's DEFINITELY MP's kit on the background, so now we can now confirm Derek's involvement with this project.
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On the instagram-account 'robbiegennet' (a keyboard tech, I suppose) there is a video of Derek's rig for this gig, while two guitar players practise a unison. I couldn't recognise their voices, but possibly someone on here will.
So two guitar players seems to be verified, by that video. That means double the speculation! :lol
Could you please share the link with us? :smiley:
https://www.instagram.com/p/BRbqvcuD6h6/?taken-by=robbiegennet (https://www.instagram.com/p/BRbqvcuD6h6/?taken-by=robbiegennet)
This should work
Thank you!
I migh be wrong, but that sounds like Derek and a guitarist practicing, not two guitars. Derek always uses guitar-like patches and gear, that's why he tends to sound like a guitarist when he plays leads. Also, that's DEFINITELY MP's kit on the background, so now we can now confirm Derek's involvement with this project.
Ah yeah, of course. I was listening on my phone speakers and didn't see him standing near an instrument, but he's standing in front of his Nord Lead, which explains the sound and why you can't see it. :lol
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I'm calling it right now. The album is going to suck because there aren't enough keyboards.
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I'm calling it right now. The album is going to suck because there aren't enough keyboards.
What's the code for the Spittake emote?
because I just did.
Idk why.
Bosk isn't *that* funny
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Is it Derek talking to...Paul Gilbert?!
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Is it Derek talking to...Paul Gilbert?!
That would be really cool, but I don't think he's involved. He's been tweeting from his home studio the last couple days about writing his own music and things like that. Also, I don't think Paul is involved in any kind of prog metal supergroup, as he has a very big solo career.
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Paused that video at the last second and caught a quick glimpse of the guitarist.
(https://i.imgur.com/sHuWcYy.png)
I'd know that guitar anywhere. That's definitely Bumblefoot
https://ilarge.lisimg.com/image/6880525/1000full-bumblefoot.jpg
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Is it Derek talking to...Paul Gilbert?!
That would be really cool, but I don't think he's involved. He's been tweeting from his home studio the last couple days about writing his own music and things like that. Also, I don't think Paul is involved in any kind of prog metal supergroup, as he has a very big solo career.
Cool, I just thought it was very similar to his voice. Anyway , I love PG solo stuff too.
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Wow :tup the voice matches with Bumblefoot's?
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Nice detective work :tup
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Okay, so no Eric Gillette then :lol
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Bumblefoot is good enough for you now? >:( :rollin
Anyway, I think is very cool this "internet detectives" way of announcing the band :tup
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Never heard about the guy.
Great detective work though :tup
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I don't know that I've ever heard any of his recorded material, but he was a total badass when I saw him play with Metal Allegiance.
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Bumblefoot is good enough for you now? >:( :rollin
Of course, I'm fine with whoever and I'll judge it based on the music and not on who's playing. I just find it funny that everybody in this thread (including me) was speculating that Eric Gillette would be the guitarist and it turns out to be somebody no-one thought of.
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Yeah, it is. I just made a general joke about the people's reactions here, it was not in response to your comment. I'm fine whatever line-up is too, if the music is good, I'm very happy!
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I've only heard Chinese Democracy with him (and more 100 guitar players?!), but it seems he is really good:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ron_%22Bumblefoot%22_Thal#Bumblefoot_.26_Solo_Career
"In 1989, Thal submitted a demo tape to Mike Varney of Shrapnel Records, which caused Varney to feature Thal in the Spotlight New Talent column in Guitar Player Magazine's August 1989 issue.[11] Upon hearing the demo, Varney commented "[Thal's] demo tape is amongst the most impressive I've ever received. It contains elements of classical, blues, and jazz, and at times reminds me of Frank Zappa. His transcriptions are most impressive and detailed, so fans of hot transcriptions might be interested in seeing these musical masterpieces on paper. With its clever melodies, contrapuntal lines, intricate rhythms, and ultra-complex ensemble sections, Ron's sheer musicality will surely gain him much acclaim."[11] In 1993, Guitar Network Magazine described Thal's playing as "Ridiculous... in a good way".[11]"
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I had heard of Bumblefoot, but am only now listening to some of his stuff. On its own it's not very interesting, but we'll see what they come up with in the band.
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That Instagram post from earlier is gone now. I guess they're onto us :lol
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That Instagram post from earlier is gone now. I guess they're onto us :lol
I was this close to comment saying that the guitarist was Bumblefoot, but I felt kinda a dick for doing that and the discovery wasn't mine anyway, so I didn't write anything.
Probably it's Portnoy himself who lurkes these pages and suggests people to remove posts :lol
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In retrospect, Bumblefoot seems like the obvious choice. MP has been jamming with him on and off for the last several years in various projects. This definitely does add a metal element to the project. Kind of surprised with two strong songwriters like Bumblefoot and Derek that they would let Mike have total creative control. Bumblefoot actually peaks my interest but it immediately wanes when I think that he won't be a full partner so to speak.
BTW, Bumblefoot is an interesting character. He only actually recorded a few things on Chinese Democracy from what I know. Interestingly, they kept most of Buckethead's solos even though Bumblefoot replaced him. Bumblefoot did actually record solos on a few things, though. Most notably on songs Buckethead wrote.
I have one of his solo albums. He shreds but it is almost more punk than metal. Haven't heard anything else.
Oh, and he rocks at the fretless guitar.
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Well this just happened
(https://i.imgur.com/KK8mMW7.png)
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Wait, there's a guitarist out there called Bumblefoot? :lol
That's almost as bad as Buckethead. :lol :lol
Where is the guitarist named Stumblebum? :lol :lol :lol
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Wait, there's a guitarist out there called Bumblefoot? :lol
That's almost as bad as Buckethead. :lol :lol
Where is the guitarist named Stumblebum? :lol :lol :lol
He died in a bizarre gardening accident.
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That Instagram post from earlier is gone now. I guess they're onto us :lol
Haha! Actually laughing out loud now. Sorry Mike! I figured people would try to figure out accents and stuff, could've been fun. So it's Bumblefoot then. Plus Derek and obviously Mike. Just the bass player left now, I guess it won't be anyone he's recorded before, so no Sheehan, LaRue etc.
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Wait, there's a guitarist out there called Bumblefoot? :lol
That's almost as bad as Buckethead. :lol :lol
Where is the guitarist named Stumblebum? :lol :lol :lol
Well, his real name is actually Ron Thal and he even released his first record under that name back in 1995, "The Adventures of Bumblefoot" (which became kind of a cult record among guitarist along the years). Ron started releasing all his music under the Bumblefoot moniker in 1998. For those of you who don't know him or his music, Ron is a virtuoso player (with a very unusual and unique approach to the guitar... I mean , how many guitarist out there can play with a thimble and make it work?) and quite a diverse stylist who can play anything from jazz to metal. He 's no slouch as a singer either. Thal's involvement in this project has just piqued my interest actually.
Here's a song off his latest record just to give you an idea of what he can do:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aSBwLNQNY5c
And here's another one from a previous record, just to show you how diverse his music can be:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lscOZDSqE0U
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Well, I think this is quite obvious quote ;) :
Mike Portnoy
1min ago
"Making History....and you??"
#TheDelFuvioBros
(https://scontent-arn2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/17264396_1612599602091009_8701542796619311326_n.jpg?oh=cf425c1b4e598e3f8de9d4b47dcddad9&oe=59252B3C)
Lava Lamps in the studio, awesome!
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Nice :lol
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I felt like this new project deserved its own thread, since it really doesn't have much to do with the Shattered Fortress Band
https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=49857.new#new
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https://www.californiaexplore.com/company/03988953/delfuvio-bros-inc
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Oh snap
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Mike Portnoy
Derek Sherinian
Chris Cintron/ or any other Ex-DT singer
JP Clone
JM Clone
The band is called Del Fuvio Monks
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Wait, there's a guitarist out there called Bumblefoot? :lol
That's almost as bad as Buckethead. :lol :lol
& both played in Chinese Democracy. :rollin
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Got a chance to watch the entire Suite from the birthday bash cruise. And, I'm sure it was cool to see in person, certainly a stage full of talented folks up there but......for me it was a bit too 'cover band'. I know a few folks on the forum went and said it was a great time and like I said I'm not discounting that but it didn't seem as rehearsed as it 'should/could' have been. I'd be curious to see future attempts but all in all....for me....this one fell short.
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Got a chance to watch the entire Suite from the birthday bash cruise. And, I'm sure it was cool to see in person, certainly a stage full of talented folks up there but......for me it was a bit too 'cover band'.
Hmmm, I don't know, let me guess here but... that's probably because IT WAS actually a cover band?... ;)
Anyways, the material they're playing is beyond madness.. It might easily be the hardest Suite of songs to play live!.. And, besides, I don't hear any considerable mistake from the guys who were actually doing the covers.. The only one that screw it up a little a few times was Portnoy himself..
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A small tour has been announced, more dates are popping up!
He's coming to Italy as well, curiously in a theatre (where I will see Lorena McKennitt just to give an idea of the kind of venue) that sits next to the big venue where he always played with DT.
I'm unsure aboing going... on one hand, it's like seeing DT without really seeing DT, which is always a bonus, on the other hand I have to consider if I want to see just the suite and a little more...
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A small tour has been announced, more dates are popping up!
He's coming to Italy as well, curiously in a theatre (where I will see Lorena McKennitt just to give an idea of the kind of venue) that sits next to the big venue where he always played with DT.
I'm unsure aboing going... on one hand, it's like seeing DT without really seeing DT, which is always a bonus, on the other hand I have to consider if I want to see just the suite and a little more...
Where are the dates?
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Saw on the fly an announcement on his FB page, there's the tour poster with the dates in July
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If the tour poster is any indication, looks like there might be songs from Awake and SFAM included, with the former probably being "The Mirror" (maybe the extended original demo version, or the version played on the Scenes tour), and the latter possibly being the songs he wrote lyrics for.
I wonder if they'll pull out ACOS, since he DID write those lyrics...
-Marc.
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I wouldn't necessarily assume he will ONLY play songs he wrote lyrics for.
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I wouldn't necessarily assume he will ONLY play songs he wrote lyrics for.
I don't take it as a certainty, but I find that to be the most likely outcome.
Also, this really is a proper tour now and less of a special event at select markets around the globe. My guess is that after the cruise a bunch of people bucked up to book this.
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Nice that he even has those two Russian dates here. Sucks that it'll be on Tuesday, but hey, at least it's not Monday. I will most probably buy the tickets next week. I tend to complain that Russia never gets any exclusive events and tours, it would be kind of silly not to go and see this.
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(https://scontent-sjc2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/17352495_1618364954847807_9118350168030325974_n.jpg?oh=68587e13989e1fb251c0d9957cae8974&oe=59267CE3)
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Well at least we know the lineup isn't changing.
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I wonder if the album covers are nods to what songs they will be playing. Six Degrees through BCSL are there, which makes sense given the 12SS. But I also see Awake, SFAM, and whatever that one is with the eye. So I am assuming the set will feature songs from those albums.
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I wouldn't necessarily assume he will ONLY play songs he wrote lyrics for.
He actually confirmed that already: https://www.facebook.com/mikeportnoyofficial/posts/1483813144969656:0
The setlist at the show will be comprised of the 12 Step Suite and select other Dream Theater songs that I've written the lyrics to.
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I wonder if the album covers are nods to what songs they will be playing. Six Degrees through BCSL are there, which makes sense given the 12SS. But I also see Awake, SFAM, and whatever that one is with the eye. So I am assuming the set will feature songs from those albums.
I think The Mirror is a given. He's played it with Haken before: https://youtu.be/KfWccwZrrLg?t=469
As for SFAM, he wrote the lyrics for only 3 songs on that album: Strange Déjà-Vu, Home, and Finally Free.
I think Home is the obvious choice, as it kinda falls in line thematically with the rest of the suite.
The eye isn't an album cover. The artwork is just a shattered mirror so I would assume the eye is just whoever's looking in the mirror.
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"A Once In A Lifetime Event" but we're doing it 13 times ;D
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"A Once In A Lifetime Event" but we're doing it 13 times ;D
On a cruise, in Europe in different countries and in South America. I dare anyone to be able to attend even two of those shows :D
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Assuming he would only do a few shows I got myself tickets for the Night of the Prog which is a 3hr drive and now he announces this tour with a venue which is only 20minutes from my home. :tdwn
Not so happy with my German tickets right now..
But I guess i'll end up seeing them 2 times... :metal
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I wouldn't necessarily assume he will ONLY play songs he wrote lyrics for.
He actually confirmed that already: https://www.facebook.com/mikeportnoyofficial/posts/1483813144969656:0
The setlist at the show will be comprised of the 12 Step Suite and select other Dream Theater songs that I've written the lyrics to.
Glad to see I was right about that! :tup Makes me wonder if he'll put out other SDOIT-to-BC&SL songs he wrote lyrics to, like "Never Enough" or "Constant Motion". I wonder if it'd be time for him to finally play "The Best Of Times" as well?
I wonder if the album covers are nods to what songs they will be playing. Six Degrees through BCSL are there, which makes sense given the 12SS. But I also see Awake, SFAM, and whatever that one is with the eye. So I am assuming the set will feature songs from those albums.
If the tour poster is any indication, looks like there might be songs from Awake and SFAM included, with the former probably being "The Mirror" (maybe the extended original demo version, or the version played on the Scenes tour), and the latter possibly being the songs he wrote lyrics for.
I wonder if they'll pull out ACOS, since he DID write those lyrics...
-Marc.
Literally what I said an hour and a half before you, bosk :lol Either way, I'm sure it's a clue, but don't guess anything because he may not want us to know which songs will be performed until HE wants us to know!!!
If this is a Two Set show, Ideally, I'd LOVE to see him close the first set with "Finally Free" and end with the static from that album, then have that play over intermission, then open the second set with the Twelve-Step Suite, play "The Mirror", then do an encore of something.
As for other first set songs, I could see him pairing "Overture 1928" with "Strange Deja Vu", as well as "Home" and "The Dance Of Eternity". I wonder what the odds are of him doing the 3 portions of SDOIT he wrote lyrics to (WIMH/TTTSTA/GK)?
The only other TOT-through-BC&SL songs he wrote that weren't part of the 12SS were "Honor Thy Father", "Never Enough", bits of "Octavarium" (unlikely that he'd play THOSE out of context), and the aforementioned "Constant Motion" and "The Best Of Times". Not that many songs when you think about it, but if he's playing an hour for the first set, and he does those 4 songs from SFAM, that'd only be 28 minutes, so that leaves at least another 32-35 minutes to fill with non-12SS songs.
-Marc.
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"A Once In A Lifetime Event" but we're doing it 13 times ;D
On a cruise, in Europe in different countries and in South America. I dare anyone to be able to attend even two of those shows :D
Well, I can technically do this if I want to, but since I'm already going to St. Petersburg in April, I feel it would be pointless to go there again just to attend another one of these. :D
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I kind of liked him playing LTE songs better than more DT songs just because DT is still around where as LTE is not.
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Yeah, this would be the perfect opportunity to finally see TBoT live... especially for that solo, which we know for sure Eric would play it flawless and as it is..
Also, this:
I kind of liked him playing LTE songs better than more DT songs just because DT is still around where as LTE is not.
BUT, please don't play the same usual "songs".. It'd be more than awesome if they play Another Dimension or When the Water Breaks instead..
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I remember when DT played Paradigm Shift with Tony Levin in 2012 and some MP fanboys went nuts saying they shouldn't play LTE tunes without MP because it's disrespectful, etc etc. And now, when MP plays LTE stuff with only 2 members in the cruise, as opposed of 3, none of them say anything (he also played Acid Rain with PSMS and they didn't complain at all) :tdwn
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"A Once In A Lifetime Event" but we're doing it 13 times ;D
On a cruise, in Europe in different countries and in South America. I dare anyone to be able to attend even two of those shows :D
Consisering I'm a regular attendee at Night of the Prog festival and am considering going to Be Prog! My Friend again (which was excellent last year), that already makes two. Although I don't think I will go to the NOTP this year. I do live close to 013 (Tilburg) though..
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I remember when DT played Paradigm Shift with Tony Levin in 2012 and some MP fanboys went nuts saying they shouldn't play LTE tunes without MP because it's disrespectful, etc etc. And now, when MP plays LTE stuff with only 2 members in the cruise, as opposed of 3, none of them say anything (he also played Acid Rain with PSMS and they didn't complain at all) :tdwn
That's because they're..... MP fanboys.. ;D
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I think The Mirror is a given. He's played it with Haken before: https://youtu.be/KfWccwZrrLg?t=469
As for SFAM, he wrote the lyrics for only 3 songs on that album: Strange Déjà-Vu, Home, and Finally Free.
I think Home is the obvious choice, as it kinda falls in line thematically with the rest of the suite.
Possibly, but can any keyboard player do the sitar stuff and JR's other stuff in that song? I guess if he has three guitarists again, one of them could do the sitar stuff on a guitar with some effect.
I remember when DT played Paradigm Shift with Tony Levin in 2012 and some MP fanboys went nuts saying they shouldn't play LTE tunes without MP because it's disrespectful, etc etc. And now, when MP plays LTE stuff with only 2 members in the cruise, as opposed of 3, none of them say anything (he also played Acid Rain with PSMS and they didn't complain at all) :tdwn
That's because they're..... MP fanboys.. ;D
Yeah, expecting objectivity and a sense of fair play in regards to these matters when it comes to "MP fanboys" (your words) is more than a bit unrealistic.
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(https://scontent-sjc2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/17352495_1618364954847807_9118350168030325974_n.jpg?oh=68587e13989e1fb251c0d9957cae8974&oe=59267CE3)
Anybody think it's weird that Mike is using the Dream Theater logo and album art to advertise these shows? I remember a big fuss over him having the Dream Theater logo on his website and message board and having to take that off and no longer being allowed to sell his Dream Theater drum cam DVDs.
I mean, we've already discussed that anybody can perform any song they want as long as they pay the publishing rights. Using copyrighted material to advertise is something else. :huh:
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Perhaps he has to pay a fee or something, which is likely what DT had to do when they took the albums covers of the full albums they covered and altered them a bit.
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It's this kind of stuff that makes me sad the way everything went down.
Both sides could have been cool and helped each other out with where they were at musically. Like MP saying "the DT guys made a great choice with Mangini" or JP saying "I think the Winery Dogs is a phenomenal project for Mike and it's a great album." Or, you know, they way things worked with Derek and even Charlie. The liked and supported one another. It would definitely have made any possible collaborations or reunion shows not only inevitable with no awkwardness but also a great time for all the musicians and the fans. But now it's just all awkward and uncomfortable.
But, the way it all happened and the years since makes it clear to me that things will never be "OK" between MP and DT (except maybe JR) and if they ever do share the stage again, unless something drastic happens, it's gonna feel really weird.
I hope someone understands what I'm trying to say. ::)
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But now it's just all awkward and uncomfortable.
You make some great points about supporting each other post-split, but now it isn't all awkward and uncomfortable. It only is when MP has something to say related to DT. Nothing has been awkward from the current DT line-up.
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Well, finally voted (although I've been posting in the thread since the get-go). It just seemed silly to speculate about something we not only had never heard, but also had no clue of the band members. I think that I really fall somewhere in between the first two choices. From what I heard of the first performance, I thought it mostly sounded really good (excusing Daniel not being prepared, the inevitable claims that come with a first performance of such a huge, epic piece of music, etc.). But it is impossible to not go in with expectations, since it is an established piece of music that we have all heard the same band performing since it was written. So, certainly, it sounds a bit "off" from what we are used to. If this were coming near me, I would definitely see it because (1) I think it would be pretty good, and (2) I think it's great to support Mike (despite him being not-so-supportive of this forum and the fans in general far more often than I think he should).
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I think we're ignoring the real beef here: LaBrie and Portnoy. LaBrie was anything BUT supportive or classy during the split. I'm not going to recount and cite everything again (I think I've done it here already) but of all the members of DT, I think he was the most... "happy" (maybe not the right word) when the split went down. I think John was more hurt and betrayed ("how dare you leave this thing we created!") but I got the sense there was almost glee on LaBrie's part. HE was the one that said nothing was going to change. HE was the one that said that he was "now the real front man" and would step up and handle the fan interaction (he didn't). HE was the one that that all four (this was before Mangini) members would step up and cover the non-drumming things that Mike did (as if they were as simple as replacing the roll of toilet paper when it's down to the paper insert).
I have no basis for this, I have no back up for this, but it is my core belief that if the band ever IS looking for a drummer again, and Portnoy is a consideration, Petrucci and Rudess will likely be faced with a "him or me" scenario with LaBrie. Which would suck for me, personally, since I got into DT back in '92 because of those two. I heard Images and Words and thought "holy shit can that guy DRUM!". Then, "holy shit can that guy SING!".
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I watched the full Shattered Fortress video last night on YouTube on my TV, as well as the LTE songs with Tony Levin. I thought it was all awesome! The Haken guys did a great job and Eric Gillette did a killer job on Petrucci's solo for the most part. I was impressed.
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I think we're ignoring the real beef here: LaBrie and Portnoy. LaBrie was anything BUT supportive or classy during the split. I'm not going to recount and cite everything again (I think I've done it here already) but of all the members of DT, I think he was the most... "happy" (maybe not the right word) when the split went down. I think John was more hurt and betrayed ("how dare you leave this thing we created!") but I got the sense there was almost glee on LaBrie's part. HE was the one that said nothing was going to change. HE was the one that said that he was "now the real front man" and would step up and handle the fan interaction (he didn't). HE was the one that that all four (this was before Mangini) members would step up and cover the non-drumming things that Mike did (as if they were as simple as replacing the roll of toilet paper when it's down to the paper insert).
I have no basis for this, I have no back up for this, but it is my core belief that if the band ever IS looking for a drummer again, and Portnoy is a consideration, Petrucci and Rudess will likely be faced with a "him or me" scenario with LaBrie. Which would suck for me, personally, since I got into DT back in '92 because of those two. I heard Images and Words and thought "holy shit can that guy DRUM!". Then, "holy shit can that guy SING!".
Stads I love your posts and think your a great contributor here, but I'm not tracking with you on this one. I think your MPfanboy might be clouding you a bit. All the guys from DT have been really respectful since the split, James included. You can definitely make the argument that he and MP weren't on great terms before the split, you can make the argument that he hasn't picked up all of MP's slack, but DT has certainly handled the split in a very classy manner.
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^Agreed. I haven't seen anything from James that was not classy.
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I agree with everybody here actually :lol
JLB was nothing but classy, but I think he would also be the most reluctant to bring MP back into DT.
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I agree with everybody here actually :lol
JLB was nothing but classy, but I think he would also be the most reluctant to bring MP back into DT.
No question. I'm definitely not arguing that.
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I agree with everybody here actually :lol
JLB was nothing but classy, but I think he would also be the most reluctant to bring MP back into DT.
Yeah, in case it wasn't clear, I was not disputing that latter point either. But I need to note that I have never spoken to James about that and have no insider information--I am basing that opinion solely off of the public things that we all have seen.
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I don´t have evidence of James expressing relief or joy that MP left, but from memory, he certainly SEEMED happy about it when it happened.
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It's really a no-brainer I think. JLB was essentially the only DT member MP publicly criticized.
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I don´t have evidence of James expressing relief or joy that MP left, but from memory, he certainly SEEMED happy about it when it happened.
Yeah James is a classy guy in general and so was always careful to not be disrespectful. But if I'm honest, there were a few interviews where he seemed so pleased with the situation that it made me feel slightly uncomfortable. It's really hard to pinpoint what it was, but I never got that feeling from the others.
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It may have been the grin glued on his face for months that clued you in :lol
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I remember thinking ADTOE felt like a major comeback for James. The album and the tours. He definitely seemed more into it compared to BC&SL and when I saw them opening for Maiden with Portnoy still in the band.
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James probably doesn't hate Mike, but I can certainly understand why he may not like him that much.
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I think we're ignoring the real beef here: LaBrie and Portnoy. LaBrie was anything BUT supportive or classy during the split. I'm not going to recount and cite everything again (I think I've done it here already) but of all the members of DT, I think he was the most... "happy" (maybe not the right word) when the split went down. I think John was more hurt and betrayed ("how dare you leave this thing we created!") but I got the sense there was almost glee on LaBrie's part. HE was the one that said nothing was going to change. HE was the one that said that he was "now the real front man" and would step up and handle the fan interaction (he didn't). HE was the one that that all four (this was before Mangini) members would step up and cover the non-drumming things that Mike did (as if they were as simple as replacing the roll of toilet paper when it's down to the paper insert).
I have no basis for this, I have no back up for this, but it is my core belief that if the band ever IS looking for a drummer again, and Portnoy is a consideration, Petrucci and Rudess will likely be faced with a "him or me" scenario with LaBrie. Which would suck for me, personally, since I got into DT back in '92 because of those two. I heard Images and Words and thought "holy shit can that guy DRUM!". Then, "holy shit can that guy SING!".
Stads I love your posts and think your a great contributor here, but I'm not tracking with you on this one. I think your MPfanboy might be clouding you a bit. All the guys from DT have been really respectful since the split, James included. You can definitely make the argument that he and MP weren't on great terms before the split, you can make the argument that he hasn't picked up all of MP's slack, but DT has certainly handled the split in a very classy manner.
I think DT has handled the split as classily as they could, but I respectfully disagree with the James comment. Did he ever come out and say "Wow, that Porntoy is a DICK and I'm glad the fucker is gone!"? No, but as others have noted, there was a hint of glee. There were the veiled comments about the "front man". There were uncomfortable moments where you knew he wanted to say more. I'm not going so far as to say he was a dick about it, but I'm sticking with the idea that James was not at all upset about Mike's leaving, and I wouldn't be at all surprised if he was part of the group that stuck to the "nope, you left!" position when Mike offered to come back.
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...but I respectfully disagree with the James comment. Did he ever come out and say "Wow, that Porntoy is a DICK and I'm glad the fucker is gone!"? No, but as others have noted, there was a hint of glee. There were the veiled comments about the "front man". There were uncomfortable moments where you knew he wanted to say more. I'm not going so far as to say he was a dick about it, but I'm sticking with the idea that James was not at all upset about Mike's leaving, and I wouldn't be at all surprised if he was part of the group that stuck to the "nope, you left!" position when Mike offered to come back.
I don't think anyone would disagree with any of that. But how does that then translate to him not being classy? IMO, classy doesn't mean being emotionless. But it means being tactful and biting your tongue where there are less tactful things you could say if you just didn't care. Where has James crossed the line?
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No, maybe you're right. I did, in fact, say that James wasn't classy, and I think I'm perhaps going too far with that. Maybe I mean to say "he didn't hide it as well as the others". But you're right, I can't really point to a moment where he was unapologetically UNclassy.
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No, maybe you're right. I did, in fact, say that James wasn't classy, and I think I'm perhaps going too far with that. Maybe I mean to say "he didn't hide it as well as the others". But you're right, I can't really point to a moment where he was unapologetically UNclassy.
Maybe you're experiencing some unconscious anti-Canadianism.
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No, maybe you're right. I did, in fact, say that James wasn't classy, and I think I'm perhaps going too far with that. Maybe I mean to say "he didn't hide it as well as the others". But you're right, I can't really point to a moment where he was unapologetically UNclassy.
Maybe you're experiencing some unconscious anti-Canadianism.
Or a bias to forktrucks.
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I think DT has handled the split as classily as they could, but I respectfully disagree with the James comment. Did he ever come out and say "Wow, that Porntoy is a DICK and I'm glad the fucker is gone!"? No, but as others have noted, there was a hint of glee. There were the veiled comments about the "front man". There were uncomfortable moments where you knew he wanted to say more. I'm not going so far as to say he was a dick about it, but I'm sticking with the idea that James was not at all upset about Mike's leaving, and I wouldn't be at all surprised if he was part of the group that stuck to the "nope, you left!" position when Mike offered to come back.
Let's assume for the sake of argument that everything you say here is true...JLB still handled the split 100 times better than Portnoy, who admittedly was probably having a tough time after having his bluff called and then being rebuffed to get back in the band (the scorned is always going to handle it worse than the rejector), but let's call a spade a spade here, eh?
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It's really a no-brainer I think. JLB was essentially the only DT member MP publicly criticized.
And often at that.
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No, maybe you're right. I did, in fact, say that James wasn't classy, and I think I'm perhaps going too far with that. Maybe I mean to say "he didn't hide it as well as the others". But you're right, I can't really point to a moment where he was unapologetically UNclassy.
That seems a bit more fair I'd say.
Let's assume for the sake of argument that everything you say here is true...JLB still handled the split 100 times better than Portnoy, who admittedly was probably having a tough time after having his bluff called and then being rebuffed to get back in the band (the scorned is always going to handle it worse than the rejector), but let's call a spade a spade here, eh?
Well yeah, there is that...
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No, maybe you're right. I did, in fact, say that James wasn't classy, and I think I'm perhaps going too far with that. Maybe I mean to say "he didn't hide it as well as the others". But you're right, I can't really point to a moment where he was unapologetically UNclassy.
Maybe you're experiencing some unconscious anti-Canadianism.
I don't have the strength to argue that. ;)
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I think DT has handled the split as classily as they could, but I respectfully disagree with the James comment. Did he ever come out and say "Wow, that Porntoy is a DICK and I'm glad the fucker is gone!"? No, but as others have noted, there was a hint of glee. There were the veiled comments about the "front man". There were uncomfortable moments where you knew he wanted to say more. I'm not going so far as to say he was a dick about it, but I'm sticking with the idea that James was not at all upset about Mike's leaving, and I wouldn't be at all surprised if he was part of the group that stuck to the "nope, you left!" position when Mike offered to come back.
Let's assume for the sake of argument that everything you say here is true...JLB still handled the split 100 times better than Portnoy, who admittedly was probably having a tough time after having his bluff called and then being rebuffed to get back in the band (the scorned is always going to handle it worse than the rejector), but let's call a spade a spade here, eh?
Well, opinions, I don't know about "100 times" but in any event, we're not talking about him, we're talking about DT. I'm not at all going to pretend I don't give Mike more benefit of the doubt than many here (and even at his own forum) do. I don't know why, maybe it's that Northeast thing (I'm not from Long Island, but I am from southern Connecticut, and I get it, I really do), but while it's unabashedly emotional at times, and not always how I'd handle things, I don't necessarily think Mike is always wrong. We have to remember, we're not exactly talking about Sir Paul McCartney here.
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I disagree Stadler. I'm from the northeast (NH) and I firmly believe Mike handled himself incorrectly. He spread himself too thin and wanted 4 other guys to take a break that they did not want and in the end he left because of that. Then flip flopped, wanted to come back after they picked a new guy. He took to the internet like a scorned lover but i still look at it as he was the catalyst for all the drama.
I still love him to death and follow 90% of his other projects but the break up was on him.
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Definitely not a regional thing. MP was very much clearly the one who handled the break up the worst, and as Kev mentioned, given the scenario, that's kind of normal. JLB probably was the one who handled it the worst from DT's end, but I think DT as a whole have overall been very respectful to MP whereas he has not always been. I don't think MP is always wrong though, far from, he just has a different perspective and I think he, like Trump, is bad at expressing that perspective through social media.
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Definitely not a regional thing. MP was very much clearly the one who handled the break up the worst, and as Kev mentioned, given the scenario, that's kind of normal. JLB probably was the one who handled it the worst from DT's end, but I think DT as a whole have overall been very respectful to MP whereas he has not always been. I don't think MP is always wrong though, far from, he just has a different perspective and I think he, like Trump, is bad at expressing that perspective through social media.
Well, while I still think there's a little "New York" in some of this, I guess Cram is most right about this. More right than me, that is. Though it's hard to admit because like I said, I'm an unabashed Portnoy fanboy.
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I am with you as being a fanboy Stadler. I felt at the time Mike was just burning himself out with too many bands and when he was playing with other bands "the old wife" became less attractive and he wanted a break to play with the "new girl".
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Being a fanboy doesn't necessarily mean that you have to love everything that your idol does and that you have to agree with every action.
Hell, I'm a big Eddie Van Halen fanboy but I know that he's a complete dick most of the time. Still love his music to death.
Same with MP, love his music (mostly) but don't love and agree with all of his actions.
And a lot of the "drama" surrounding DT and MP is just a storm in a waterglass compared to the drama of other bands that split up (looking at the aforementioned EVH, or GnR, or Queensryche or ...)
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Oh hell yeah, at Styx (DeYoung) & Journey (Perry) to that list.
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I don't necessarily think Mike is always wrong.
Oh, I agree with you quite a bit on that. But the problem more often than not, as has been noted, is how he handles things. He may be right about something. But when he turns around and takes the low road to show how "right" he is, he loses the P/R battle.
Case in point is how he has dealt with this forum even while still being a member of DT. He is right that a lot of the critique and criticism that gets posted here is unfair and goes too far. I don't have a problem with him feeling that way, and I tend to agree. But where I do have a problem is that when I met him back when he was still a member of DT, he was extremely critical of the forum as a whole and was incredibly rude to me simply because I run the forum. And he has never really stopped and continues to take shots at us. So while he is right on the larger issue, he ends up being wrong because he cannot seem to handle himself in a way that could bring some positivity to the table.
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Portnoy really needs to read that bosk, and think hard about it.
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I wish he would. But he knows. It's been said to him, and he has made it clear that he doesn't care. And knowing that is what gets me even more bent, to the point where I get worked up thinking about it even now. Which is funny given that I am usually so free about letting things go. Must be spending too much time around you and Jack, and having some Long Island rub off on me. :biggrin:
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That's sadly surprising given how much he seems to care about the fans
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Some people seem to forget that MP also accused DT of rewriting IAW with ADTOE and plagiarizing a RED (I think that's the band's name) song with BMU BMD. Also, he's the one who always speaks of how good HE is, and how the DT members arent:
- "Believe me, I tried to rejoin for THE FANS, but THEY wouldn't accept ME. Everything I do is for the FANS".
- "I am no longer allowed to sell these drum cam DVDs, because THEY don't allow me to. I tried, guys..."
- "I really wanted them to perform the 12SS with me on the cruise, but seems like THEY have another plans. Sorry, guys..."
Just a few examples of how well has MP handled the split overall :facepalm:
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I wish he would. But he knows. It's been said to him, and he has made it clear that he doesn't care. And knowing that is what gets me even more bent, to the point where I get worked up thinking about it even now. Which is funny given that I am usually so free about letting things go. Must be spending too much time around you and Jack, and having some Long Island rub off on me. :biggrin:
I'm following this with fascination (because I know some of the history here, not all of it), but you lost me slightly: he knows what exactly? What has been said to him?
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Some people seem to forget that MP also accused DT of rewriting IAW with ADTOE and plagiarizing a RED (I think that's the band's name) song with BMU BMD. Also, he's the one who always speaks of how good HE is, and how the DT members arent:
- "Believe me, I tried to rejoin for THE FANS, but THEY wouldn't accept ME. Everything I do is for the FANS".
- "I am no longer allowed to sell these drum cam DVDs, because THEY don't allow me to. I tried, guys..."
- "I really wanted them to perform the 12SS with me on the cruise, but seems like THEY have another plans. Sorry, guys..."
Just a few examples of how well has MP handled the split overall :facepalm:
Are those actual Portnoy quotes, or Kotow quotes attributed to MP?
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A lot of the shows have Doors opening at 7 and show time 8 with no mention on the tickets of 'with special guests' I.e. support act. Considering the tickets for the london gig was £40 which is substantial i'm expecting a long show so this well could be an "evening with" scenario potentially:
Overture 1928
Strange Deja vu
Constant Motion
The Mirror
Honor Thy Father
Home
The Best of Times (If MP can bring himself to play it otherwise replace with Goodnight Kiss)
Finally Free
................
The Glass Prison
This Dying Soul
The Root Of All Evil
Repentance
This Shattered Fortress
..................
A Change of Seasons
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There is positively no way the set is that long.
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I wish he would. But he knows. It's been said to him, and he has made it clear that he doesn't care. And knowing that is what gets me even more bent, to the point where I get worked up thinking about it even now. Which is funny given that I am usually so free about letting things go. Must be spending too much time around you and Jack, and having some Long Island rub off on me. :biggrin:
I'm following this with fascination (because I know some of the history here, not all of it), but you lost me slightly: he knows what exactly? What has been said to him?
He knows and has been told that his reaction to this forum as an entity itself (i.e., as opposed to his reaction to specific posts that may, for specific reasons, be problematic) and his reaction to me as the owner of this forum are off-base, overblown, offensive, and do him a disservice. He knows that, and he has been told that, and he does not care. Not even a little.
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On the topic of the tour poster, has anyone spotted the clear absence of FII in the artwork? IIRC, he wrote four lyrics during that time with Derek in the band, but it seems like he might not play any of those songs, which leads me to believe that he's purposely NOT playing those songs so he can put them in the set lists for his new band with Derek.
-Marc.
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On the topic of the tour poster, has anyone spotted the clear absence of FII in the artwork? IIRC, he wrote four lyrics during that time with Derek in the band, but it seems like he might not play any of those songs, which leads me to believe that he's purposely NOT playing those songs so he can put them in the set lists for his new band with Derek.
-Marc.
Didn't he also already perform at least Lines in the Sand since leaving DT so maybe that plays a role?
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On the topic of the tour poster, has anyone spotted the clear absence of FII in the artwork? IIRC, he wrote four lyrics during that time with Derek in the band, but it seems like he might not play any of those songs, which leads me to believe that he's purposely NOT playing those songs so he can put them in the set lists for his new band with Derek.
-Marc.
I think him playing one or two of those songs in the project with Derek is a smart deduction. But why would he play anything from FII with this band? He listed album covers from 5 albums that the 12SS songs come from. Playing that simply does not leave a lot more room in a set. If he additionally does a song from Awake, a song from SFAM, maybe one additional song from one of those five albums, and a NM cover or a Haken cover, that is already a longer set list than I would have expected.
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I wish he would. But he knows. It's been said to him, and he has made it clear that he doesn't care. And knowing that is what gets me even more bent, to the point where I get worked up thinking about it even now. Which is funny given that I am usually so free about letting things go. Must be spending too much time around you and Jack, and having some Long Island rub off on me. :biggrin:
I'm following this with fascination (because I know some of the history here, not all of it), but you lost me slightly: he knows what exactly? What has been said to him?
He knows and has been told that his reaction to this forum as an entity itself (i.e., as opposed to his reaction to specific posts that may, for specific reasons, be problematic) and his reaction to me as the owner of this forum are off-base, overblown, offensive, and do him a disservice. He knows that, and he has been told that, and he does not care. Not even a little.
I didn't know that, but it doesn't surprise me. I am sure he considers this forum a continuation of dt.net, which he hated, so I guess that makes all fans and mods here just awful.
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Some people seem to forget that MP also accused DT of rewriting IAW with ADTOE and plagiarizing a RED (I think that's the band's name) song with BMU BMD. Also, he's the one who always speaks of how good HE is, and how the DT members arent:
- "Believe me, I tried to rejoin for THE FANS, but THEY wouldn't accept ME. Everything I do is for the FANS".
- "I am no longer allowed to sell these drum cam DVDs, because THEY don't allow me to. I tried, guys..."
- "I really wanted them to perform the 12SS with me on the cruise, but seems like THEY have another plans. Sorry, guys..."
Just a few examples of how well has MP handled the split overall :facepalm:
Don't forget the liking of anti-JLB comments on FB :P
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Some people seem to forget that MP also accused DT of rewriting IAW with ADTOE and plagiarizing a RED (I think that's the band's name) song with BMU BMD. Also, he's the one who always speaks of how good HE is, and how the DT members arent:
- "Believe me, I tried to rejoin for THE FANS, but THEY wouldn't accept ME. Everything I do is for the FANS".
- "I am no longer allowed to sell these drum cam DVDs, because THEY don't allow me to. I tried, guys..."
- "I really wanted them to perform the 12SS with me on the cruise, but seems like THEY have another plans. Sorry, guys..."
Just a few examples of how well has MP handled the split overall :facepalm:
Don't forget the liking of anti-JLB comments on FB :P
What? You can't be serious? He does that?
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Some people seem to forget that MP also accused DT of rewriting IAW with ADTOE and plagiarizing a RED (I think that's the band's name) song with BMU BMD. Also, he's the one who always speaks of how good HE is, and how the DT members arent:
- "Believe me, I tried to rejoin for THE FANS, but THEY wouldn't accept ME. Everything I do is for the FANS".
- "I am no longer allowed to sell these drum cam DVDs, because THEY don't allow me to. I tried, guys..."
- "I really wanted them to perform the 12SS with me on the cruise, but seems like THEY have another plans. Sorry, guys..."
Just a few examples of how well has MP handled the split overall :facepalm:
Don't forget the liking of anti-JLB comments on FB :P
What? You can't be serious? He does that?
At least he did... I distinctly remember seeing that
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Some people seem to forget that MP also accused DT of rewriting IAW with ADTOE and plagiarizing a RED (I think that's the band's name) song with BMU BMD. Also, he's the one who always speaks of how good HE is, and how the DT members arent:
- "Believe me, I tried to rejoin for THE FANS, but THEY wouldn't accept ME. Everything I do is for the FANS".
- "I am no longer allowed to sell these drum cam DVDs, because THEY don't allow me to. I tried, guys..."
- "I really wanted them to perform the 12SS with me on the cruise, but seems like THEY have another plans. Sorry, guys..."
Just a few examples of how well has MP handled the split overall :facepalm:
Don't forget the liking of anti-JLB comments on FB :P
What? You can't be serious? He does that?
At least he did... I distinctly remember seeing that
Yeah, that was pretty soon after the split, in 2011 I think. IIRC he was like "I can like whatever *I* want!" when people called him out on it.
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RT-ing on Twitter too.
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Some people seem to forget that MP also accused DT of rewriting IAW with ADTOE and plagiarizing a RED (I think that's the band's name) song with BMU BMD. Also, he's the one who always speaks of how good HE is, and how the DT members arent:
- "Believe me, I tried to rejoin for THE FANS, but THEY wouldn't accept ME. Everything I do is for the FANS".
- "I am no longer allowed to sell these drum cam DVDs, because THEY don't allow me to. I tried, guys..."
- "I really wanted them to perform the 12SS with me on the cruise, but seems like THEY have another plans. Sorry, guys..."
Just a few examples of how well has MP handled the split overall :facepalm:
Are those actual Portnoy quotes, or Kotow quotes attributed to MP?
Actual.
If i'm imitating MP - *I* make it REALLY over the top and obvious FOR THE FANS guys...: ) : ) : )
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Some people seem to forget that MP also accused DT of rewriting IAW with ADTOE and plagiarizing a RED (I think that's the band's name) song with BMU BMD. Also, he's the one who always speaks of how good HE is, and how the DT members arent:
- "Believe me, I tried to rejoin for THE FANS, but THEY wouldn't accept ME. Everything I do is for the FANS".
- "I am no longer allowed to sell these drum cam DVDs, because THEY don't allow me to. I tried, guys..."
- "I really wanted them to perform the 12SS with me on the cruise, but seems like THEY have another plans. Sorry, guys..."
Just a few examples of how well has MP handled the split overall :facepalm:
Are those actual Portnoy quotes, or Kotow quotes attributed to MP?
Actual.
If i'm imitating MP - *I* make it REALLY over the top and obvious FOR THE FANS guys...: ) : ) : )
:lol Mine aren't word for word quotes, but Mike has, in fact, said all these things I listed. He's always the one pointing out how the other guys didn't allow him to do certain stuff or how HE was the one inviting Derek and Charlie for that anniversary show, etc etc.
Also,he doesn't explicitly say bad things about the DT guys like "James sucks" or anything like that, but, as some people here have been saying, he always likes comments or tweets that say bad stuff about DT and the other guys, specially James and Mangini. That doesn't help his image at all, if you ask me.
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A lot of the shows have Doors opening at 7 and show time 8 with no mention on the tickets of 'with special guests' I.e. support act. Considering the tickets for the london gig was £40 which is substantial i'm expecting a long show so this well could be an "evening with" scenario potentially:
Well I'm going to Milan, and it says that the opening act will be Next To None. Can anyone confirm this?
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Of course it'll be Next to None :lol
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I notice MP will make passive aggressive comments like who cares if a drummer can play 1000bpm it's all about feel. I'm paraphrasing.
I'm just going to start posting here instead because although I am a big fan of his drumming and some of his projects his self centered attitude has finally wore me out.
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I notice MP will make passive aggressive comments like who cares if a drummer can play 1000bpm it's all about feel. I'm paraphrasing.
I'm just going to start posting here instead because although I am a big fan of his drumming and some of his projects his self centered attitude has finally wore me out.
Welcome!
Always lot of good music topics going on here, DT and otherwise. Feel free to jump into the deep end. :coolio
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A lot of the shows have Doors opening at 7 and show time 8 with no mention on the tickets of 'with special guests' I.e. support act. Considering the tickets for the london gig was £40 which is substantial i'm expecting a long show so this well could be an "evening with" scenario potentially:
Well I'm going to Milan, and it says that the opening act will be Next To None. Can anyone confirm this?
It's MP's show so he can do whatever he wants, but man, a slot like that should go to some upcoming Italian prog band, not a teenage angry band.
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It's my tour!
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It's my tour!
LOL
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Ohh is that his son's band?
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Ohh is that his son's band?
Yes
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Singing kid ain't bad. I saw a vid of MP doing The Mirror the Haken and the kid came out and sang some of it and was surprisingly good.
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I notice MP will make passive aggressive comments like who cares if a drummer can play 1000bpm it's all about feel.
Yup...and MM used to always say him and MP are friends and about how much he respects him. Not so much anymore. The comments Portnoy made were clearly directed at Mangini and I can't imagine Mangini is too happy about it.
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I notice MP will make passive aggressive comments like who cares if a drummer can play 1000bpm it's all about feel.
Yup...and MM used to always say him and MP are friends and about how much he respects him. Not so much anymore. The comments Portnoy made were clearly directed at Mangini and I can't imagine Mangini is too happy about it.
Yet, Mangini still compliments Portnoy's drum lines and has always spoken good things about him. On the other side, Portnoy has never ever made a single positive comment about MM era DT. He even tried to diminish the importance of their first Grammy nom. by calling it a recognition of their whole career, and not really because of OTBOA :tdwn
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I notice MP will make passive aggressive comments like who cares if a drummer can play 1000bpm it's all about feel.
Yup...and MM used to always say him and MP are friends and about how much he respects him. Not so much anymore. The comments Portnoy made were clearly directed at Mangini and I can't imagine Mangini is too happy about it.
Yet, Mangini still compliments Portnoy's drum lines and has always spoken good things about him. On the other side, Portnoy has never ever made a single positive comment about MM era DT. He even tried to diminish the importance of their first Grammy nom. by calling it a recognition of their whole career, and not really because of OTBOA :tdwn
Yeah. Really low. Good point though that MM still compliments MP all the time. Mangini seems to be pure class...unlike...
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Still, the only thing I ever remember reading from Portnoy about Mangini was a reply on his forum about wether he was pissed at him for taking his job, and he replied something like "Of course not! it was a great carrier opportunity and it would have been foolish to pass it on". Which of course is PC as you can get, but still, it was the right thing to say.
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Still, the only thing I ever remember reading from Portnoy about Mangini was a reply on his forum about wether he was pissed at him for taking his job, and he replied something like "Of course not! it was a great carrier opportunity and it would have been foolish to pass it on". Which of course is PC as you can get, but still, it was the right thing to say.
Agreed it was the best thing to say. I am sure it is still tough on MP because I feel he still regrets leaving DT, otherwise it wouldn't bother him.
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Yeah. Really low. Good point though that MM still compliments MP all the time. Mangini seems to be pure class...unlike...
DT and MM are doing the absolute best thing.
The more MP throws insults at you - the more you have to ignore it and throw compliments back.
It just makes you look better and better and him worse and worse.
If MP insults Mangini and Mangini compliments him back - there's no way out of that.
I remember one time on Twitter - MP tweeted " Man - November Rain by GNR has the same drum fill like 12 times..."
Matt Sorum replied " Better than having a kit the size of a house and overplaying everywhere " < - or something similar **
:lol MP quickly replied " I totally agree ! I love November Rain btw ! : ) "
Too late :lolpalm:
** i just found it and Matt said " remember kids - drumming isn't all about fancy drum fills and splash cymbals everywhere "
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^Yeah, I remember the Matt Sorum thing. I might previously have agreed with Mike on that fill too. That is, until Matt explained why it is like that in response to Mike's comment, which actually was pretty cool.
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It was mainly Portnoy's immediate sycophantic back-pedalling that I found amusing.
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He is like those cats in gifs where supposedly the fight is over, but when the other cat is walking away, MP cat hits one last time on the way out. And then tries to look innocent :lol
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It was mainly Portnoy's immediate sycophantic back-pedalling that I found amusing.
Or bashing the final Pink Floyd album and then when people bashed the hell out of him he came back and said "I totally get what David Gilmour is doing by releasing this and I love it!"
He said some crappy things about Neal Peart back in the day, too.
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I just saw the cruise videos, or what I could handle of them at least...
Three guitarists.
Three JP guitars.
If I were MP, who had no doubt already made some lofty demands on his DT cover band musicians, I would have imposed on them further with a "no JP guitars" rule. People who worship in the Temple of Petrucci just don't know what it looks like when guys play prog and use JP guitars more or less exclusively. Don't tell me image doesn't matter--Mike knows it does. Even worse is when you're not doing a couple one-off cover shows as this is also a great way to get called a "DT ripoff," and there's a semblance to truth to it if you're in the bubble to the point that you think this is the only guitar you can make music on.
To his credit, Charlie Griffiths has some cooler guitars he usually plays.
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I know Eric plays a JP model as his main guitar currently, and I believe both Rich and Charlie formerly played them as well before switching to their current Strandberg models. I don't think that anyone thinks they're the only guitar you can make music on, from what I understand they're just really well designed/made instruments. I'm pretty sure I remember rumborak saying that he ended up with a JP model back in his DT cover band days not because of Petrucci, but because for the quality and features it just made sense.
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I just saw the cruise videos, or what I could handle of them at least...
Three guitarists.
Three JP guitars.
If I were MP, who had no doubt already made some lofty demands on his DT cover band musicians, I would have imposed on them further with a "no JP guitars" rule. People who worship in the Temple of Petrucci just don't know what it looks like when guys play prog and use JP guitars more or less exclusively. Don't tell me image doesn't matter--Mike knows it does. Even worse is when you're not doing a couple one-off cover shows as this is also a great way to get called a "DT ripoff," and there's a semblance to truth to it if you're in the bubble to the point that you think this is the only guitar you can make music on.
To his credit, Charlie Griffiths has some cooler guitars he usually plays.
??? What?
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I have 4 JP model guitars and they are really amazing. Definitely my favorite guitars.
That said, playing them in this specific context wasn't the best idea.
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That said, playing them in this specific context wasn't the best idea.
I don't understand why not? It's dream theater songs, why is it a negative to play DT songs with a JP guitar? As far as I know, The Shattered Fortress is essentially a DT cover band with a former DT member. It seems fitting to me.
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Yeah, playing JP parts with JP guitars, how dare they?
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There's definitely other outstanding alternatives out there. The JP guitar really isn't all that exclusive in that sense. But I probably shouldn't say much; although I don't own a MusicMan, I do have JP's signature pickups in my 7-string.
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Yeah, playing JP parts with JP guitars, how dare they?
Because it makes this seem like a DT cover band. I don't think Mike wants this to be considered a DT cover band, but a band playing music associated with Mike Portnoy's illustrious career. I'm trying to look at it from Mike's perspective--I don't necessarily think in retrospect that the "three bearded dudes playing JP parts on JP guitars" look was his ideal presentation.
I wasn't aware Charlie was playing the JP guitars regularly at some point, but I haven't followed Haken in a while and am a bigger fan of his older Linear Sphere stuff.
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I have a 7-string JP model, it's my main guitar. It was the only 7-string model that had a floating-bridge and piezos. For a lefty, keep that in mind.
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Because it makes this seem like a DT cover band.
It IS a DT cover band.
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Maybe this is totally naive of me, but I kinda viewed the fact that they all used JP guitars as a sign of respect to JP. I thought it was cool.
Does it help them not look like a DT cover band? Nope. But, they kinda are a DT cover band, so I guess in my book, it's okay that they look like one.
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3 Guitars all the time is a bit much though why not have Richard switch it up every now and then and play keyboards for certain parts.
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Because it makes this seem like a DT cover band.
It IS a DT cover band.
See my thread Mike Portnoy has a new Dream Theater cover band (https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=48404.0).
I totally agree with you and am only talking about public perception, something Mike is sometimes acutely aware of and other times entirely oblivious to. My opinion is Mike wanted this to be more a celebration of Mike than a celebration of Dream Theater as a whole.
It's quite different than an Iron Maiden cover band where one guy has to dance around like a madman, one guy has to wear silly costumes, and another has to fire his P bass bass like a machine gun at the audience to maintain authenticity and draw the crowd in. All this band really needed was Mike playing Mike.
Am I giving Mike too little credit? Did he really just want to use Mike Portnoy's Shattered Fortress to celebrate Dream Theater and all of its individual members? ;)
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Frankly, they should play whatever instruments they think can best replicate the music as Mike would like it replicated. It that happens to be JP model guitars, which would make a whole lot of sense, so be it.
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They stayed very close to the original recordings so it makes sense to try to replicate the sound as best as they can, and if this can be done with JP guitars then do it. And when you take into account that Eric plays them regularly and the Haken guys have played them for some time, it's really no big deal.
And yes, it is a DT cover band, although I would have liked it probably more had they changed things a bit, rearrange some parts, play things a little bit different. The three singers were a step in that direction imo, sad that Daniel wasn't prepared and Ted was struggling with his voice.
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FWIW, I doubt very seriously that any of the guitarists were playing the JP guitars because it was DT music. They just like those guitars.
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FWIW, I doubt very seriously that any of the guitarists were playing the JP guitars because it was DT music. They just like those guitars.
I'm not sure, actually. They basically never play the JP guitars anymore. So I wouldn't be surprised if they did is because it seemed fitting for playing DT's music. It's also possible that those were simply their preferred 7-strings, when everything they do in Haken these days is (I belive) on 8-string.
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If you're playing DT songs, there is not a single guitar that makes more sense than one of the JP models. Also, they're good guitars. I played one at Guitar Center a few weeks ago and it kicked ass.
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Haken guys are almost certainly doing it as homage to Petrucci. They haven't used the JP models in Haken since the Visions era iirc.
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It is NOT a DT cover band!
He wrote ALL the music
ALL the arrangements
ALMOST ALL of the producing
ALL the drum parts
ALL the lyrics
;)
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I don't see the issue with the guitarists using a JP model guitar. I mean, really?
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re: them using JP model guitars...
I think it was done kind of a tribute to JP, but also as Arich said, it was probably more fitting to play it on the JP 7 strings than their usual 8 strings.
Why the hell is this even an issue?
It's not like Conner was playing a Bongo.
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I'm now really wishing they all went full DT.
I want to see three people dressed as JP on stage, with muscle suits and all.
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It is NOT a DT cover band!
He wrote ALL the music
ALL the arrangements
ALMOST ALL of the producing
ALL the drum parts
ALL the lyrics
;)
Hi Mike..
I'm now really wishing they all went full DT.
I want to see three people dressed as JP on stage, with muscle suits and all.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AC9ww4Z-Qa8
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\
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AC9ww4Z-Qa8
Saw these guys a few years ago. Really fun show. The guys are really chill. I've ran into them at several DT shows since, as well as at NAMM.
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https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=882603868514784&id=357114014397108&refsrc=https%3A%2F%2Fm.facebook.com%2Fdreamtheatertribute%2Fvideos%2F882603868514784%2F&_rdr
Thanks for that link to systematic chaos. On the youtube comments someone put this link. Funny to hear MM acknowledge that people criticize him.
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\
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AC9ww4Z-Qa8
Saw these guys a few years ago. Really fun show. The guys are really chill. I've ran into them at several DT shows since, as well as at NAMM.
Sounds good but those wigs :rollin
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I don't see the issue with the guitarists using a JP model guitar. I mean, really?
Well it is a little weird. It's not like that model is as common as a Les Paul or even an SG. Imagine if Ozzy's guitarists used a Tony Iommi signature model with the crosses on the fret board or if Tommy Thayer played an Ace signature Les Paul with the three pickups. As it stands Thayer plays a regular Les Paul...then again hes already copying the makeup and costume so maybe he should just go all out.
Anyway, I'm sure Petrucci's guitar is badass and perfect for this occasion but it is a tiny bit weird. Probably petty to think so but whatevs.
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If you're playing DT songs, there is not a single guitar that makes more sense than one of the JP models.
I disagree. A lot.
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JP Music Man > > > Ugly multi coloured super strat ibanez.
I've always thought Ibanez RG guitars were vile. Not Ibanez as a whole. I had a Les Paul inspired one in 2009 and it was awesome.
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I mean I might think it was weird if they went out to get JP model guitars just for these gigs, but if you already have one and you're going to be playing Dream Theater music then why wouldn't you...
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Oh, absolutely. I am not disputing that at all, though it's kind of weird to see the Haken guys play on the JP guitars. I haven't seen them do that since 2010; maybe Richard Henshall has, but Charlie Griffiths has been playing 8-stringed guitars since the Visions tours. By all means, they're going to need a 7-string guitar to play the 12SS, so they might just as well do it on their JP models.
What I am disputing though, is the idea that in order to play DT material, the JP model would be the 'best' to get the job done. That claim is pretty ludicrous, and untrue as well. There's tons of guitars and makes that are just as 'good' (if not better) than the JP model. I'm not saying they're bad guitars, because they most likely aren't (I've never played them), but a guitar is a guitar and lots of other 7-strings can get the job done. JP's tone comes mostly from his amps, which are Mesa/Boogie make (JP even has his own signature amp, the Mesa/Boogie JP-2C). I'm pretty sure the Haken guys use Fractal Axe-FX exclusively, which isn't even an analog amp like the M/B is (I'm not judging, merely pointing out differences).
That said, I do not think they actively thought of literally imitating Dream Theater, since they are, for the most part, using different gear to replicate DT's sound, although they are essentially a DT cover band at this point. Them using JP guitars doesn't matter one bit to me.
In other news, I just got a ticket for the show in 013 (Tilburg, the Netherlands) to see this thing myself.
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I'm really hoping Mike's able to pull together a NYC show since ProgPower isn't in the cards for me.
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ITT comment that playing a JP guitar looks silly, because the guitarist usually plays an 8-string :lol
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ITT comment that playing a JP guitar looks silly, because the guitarist usually plays an 8-string :lol
Have you actually read beyond the first two lines of what I wrote, before commenting smugly?
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I'm really hoping Mike's able to pull together a NYC show since ProgPower isn't in the cards for me.
Im surprised he doesn't have a hometown date for this.
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I'm really hoping Mike's able to pull together a NYC show since ProgPower isn't in the cards for me.
Im surprised he doesn't have a hometown date for this.
I saw him say that he was trying to put one on, guess it's a matter of getting a promoter on board.
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ITT comment that playing a JP guitar looks silly, because the guitarist usually plays an 8-string :lol
Have you actually read beyond the first two lines of what I wrote, before commenting smugly?
My point is actually that 8-string guitars are far more silly than any JP guitar could ever be.
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ITT comment that playing a JP guitar looks silly, because the guitarist usually plays an 8-string :lol
Have you actually read beyond the first two lines of what I wrote, before commenting smugly?
My point is actually that 8-string guitars are far more silly than any JP guitar could ever be.
Even JPs new 8 string?
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If you're playing DT songs, there is not a single guitar that makes more sense than one of the JP models. Also, they're good guitars. I played one at Guitar Center a few weeks ago and it kicked ass.
Well an Ibanez Prestige if you are talking the first 4 albums :biggrin:
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ITT comment that playing a JP guitar looks silly, because the guitarist usually plays an 8-string :lol
Have you actually read beyond the first two lines of what I wrote, before commenting smugly?
My point is actually that 8-string guitars are far more silly than any JP guitar could ever be.
Even JPs new 8 string?
Absolutely. To me 8-strings have the same status as fretless guitars, or double-necked ones. Fun for the occasional gimmick tune, sure, but not much more.
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If you're playing DT songs, there is not a single guitar that makes more sense than one of the JP models.
I disagree. A lot.
Non-guitarists and amateur guitarists who subscribe to a lot of silly guitar lore don't quite realize how simple electric guitars are. Like you said later, it's mostly the amp responsible for the tone. It might seem like conventional wisdom that a JP model is the way to sound like JP, but the truth is some medium-high gain pickups (of which Petrucci has used many over the years), 7 strings, 24 frets, floating trem, maybe piezo for some occasions will get you close enough to one of the dozens of tones JP has recorded over the decades to reproduce his playing live to the satisfaction of all but the most pedantic nerds. If they were using JP guitars to best mimic his tone, I suppose all of Mike's three guitarists should have been using Triaxis, Dual Rectifier, Mark IIC+, Mark IV, or Mark V depending on the song to produce those exact album tones as well. Similarly I doubt all three guitarists had stereo rigs to simulate JP's soundstage-widening offset trick. If any were using modelers, I can promise they weren't modeling JP's studio amps on a per-song basis to achieve maximum accuracy.
Regarding 8-strings, they're hardly silly unless you're primarily using them to shit allover the bass player's already narrow share of the frequency spectrum... Which is the case more often than not sadly. When exploited in that way they're vile indeed.
I'm going to assume for consistency's sake that anyone with a general problem with 8-strings is not a fan of Panic Attack.
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If you're playing DT songs, there is not a single guitar that makes more sense than one of the JP models.
I disagree. A lot.
Non-guitarists and amateur guitarists who subscribe to a lot of silly guitar lore don't quite realize how simple electric guitars are. Like you said later, it's mostly the amp responsible for the tone. It might seem like conventional wisdom that a JP model is the way to sound like JP, but the truth is some medium-high gain pickups (of which Petrucci has used many over the years), 7 strings, 24 frets, floating trem, maybe piezo for some occasions will get you close enough to one of the dozens of tones JP has recorded over the decades to reproduce his playing live to the satisfaction of all but the most pedantic nerds. If they were using JP guitars to best mimic his tone, I suppose all of Mike's three guitarists should have been using Triaxis, Dual Rectifier, Mark IIC+, Mark IV, or Mark V depending on the song to produce those exact album tones as well. Similarly I doubt all three guitarists had stereo rigs to simulate JP's soundstage-widening offset trick. If any were using modelers, I can promise they weren't modeling JP's studio amps on a per-song basis to achieve maximum accuracy.
Well of course you can mimic JP's tone with other guitars. But these guys already own JP models.
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That's what this is really. They're all DT fans anyway, so at some point they bought JP guitars, also because they are excellenty built guitars. So when they were asked to play this, why would they not use the guitar that gives them the best chance of sounding good?
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Rumbo, I've talked to Charlie from Haken about his love of DT and how he saw them on the I&W tour at Marque Club.
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That's what this is really. They're all DT fans anyway, so at some point they bought JP guitars, also because they are excellenty built guitars. So when they were asked to play this, why would they not use the guitar that gives them the best chance of sounding good?
Because the guitar doesn't do a whole lot to the overall tone to make it 'sound good'.
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That's what this is really. They're all DT fans anyway, so at some point they bought JP guitars, also because they are excellenty built guitars. So when they were asked to play this, why would they not use the guitar that gives them the best chance of sounding good?
Because the guitar doesn't do a whole lot to the overall tone to make it 'sound good'.
Not sure if serious?
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That's what this is really. They're all DT fans anyway, so at some point they bought JP guitars, also because they are excellenty built guitars. So when they were asked to play this, why would they not use the guitar that gives them the best chance of sounding good?
Because the guitar doesn't do a whole lot to the overall tone to make it 'sound good'.
Not sure if serious?
Yeah, for real. A guitar is a huge part of a rig in terms of developing a tone.
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It would just be another hurdle to overcome for them, to make the non-JP model sound like the JP model. Why should they bother? Solely to not have some internet people complain about it?
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Yeah, for real. A guitar is a huge part of a rig in terms of developing a tone.
No, it is not. Of course there's gonna be a difference between a $100 guitar and a $3000 guitar, but the difference between two guitars in the same price range, made for the same general style of music (in this case, metal), will sound eerily similar when played through the same amplifier. The pickups do quite a lot for the tone, but the guitar itself - that is, the piece of wood and all electronics apart from the pick-ups - does not.
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Wow. Couldn't disagree more.
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Yeah, for real. A guitar is a huge part of a rig in terms of developing a tone.
No, it is not. Of course there's gonna be a difference between a $100 guitar and a $3000 guitar, but the difference between two guitars in the same price range, made for the same general style of music (in this case, metal), will sound eerily similar when played through the same amplifier. The pickups do quite a lot for the tone, but the guitar itself - that is, the piece of wood and all electronics apart from the pick-ups - does not.
Well first off, I disagree, but you are also attaching a lot of "ifs" to that statement. It doesn't make that big of a difference "if" the guitars are in the same price range, "if" they are design for the same style of music, etc.... If you are going to attach all those "if" statements, I could say the same thing about any part of any guitar rig.
It doesn't matter what amp you play, it doesn't change your tone that much. As long as you are comparing amps in the same price range, designed for the same type of music, and have similar features.
It doesn't matter what pedals you use, it doesn't change your tone that much. As long as you are comparing pedals in the same price range, design for the same type of music, and have similar features.
The fact of the matter is that ever single piece of a signal chain (guitar absolutely included) changes the tone of a rig in various ways. The guitar being used, the amp being used, and the player's hands are probably the three biggest tone-defining parts of any rig.
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Wow. Couldn't disagree more.
Yeah two 1961 Gibson Les Pauls with the same wood and pickups sound different.
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Yeah, for real. A guitar is a huge part of a rig in terms of developing a tone.
No, it is not. Of course there's gonna be a difference between a $100 guitar and a $3000 guitar, but the difference between two guitars in the same price range, made for the same general style of music (in this case, metal), will sound eerily similar when played through the same amplifier. The pickups do quite a lot for the tone, but the guitar itself - that is, the piece of wood and all electronics apart from the pick-ups - does not.
Well first off, I disagree, but you are also attaching a lot of "ifs" to that statement. It doesn't make that big of a difference "if" the guitars are in the same price range, "if" they are design for the same style of music, etc.... If you are going to attach all those "if" statements, I could say the same thing about any part of any guitar rig.
It doesn't matter what amp you play, it doesn't change your tone that much. As long as you are comparing amps in the same price range, designed for the same type of music, and have similar features.
It doesn't matter what pedals you use, it doesn't change your tone that much. As long as you are comparing pedals in the same price range, design for the same type of music, and have similar features.
The fact of the matter is that ever single piece of a signal chain (guitar absolutely included) changes the tone of a rig in various ways. The guitar being used, the amp being used, and the player's hands are probably the three biggest tone-defining parts of any rig.
All of that. Plus, there is a LOT more to a guitar player's sound than just tone, so I'm not sure how the scope of the discussion somehow got shifted to only be limited to tone.
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All of that. Plus, there is a LOT more to a guitar player's sound than just tone, so I'm not sure how the scope of the discussion somehow got shifted to only be limited to tone.
Absolutely, I totally agree. Somehow I got very focused on tones :lol
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Yeah, for real. A guitar is a huge part of a rig in terms of developing a tone.
No, it is not. Of course there's gonna be a difference between a $100 guitar and a $3000 guitar, but the difference between two guitars in the same price range, made for the same general style of music (in this case, metal), will sound eerily similar when played through the same amplifier. The pickups do quite a lot for the tone, but the guitar itself - that is, the piece of wood and all electronics apart from the pick-ups - does not.
But like others have said, they probably had those guitars anyway, because they are good guitars.
I don't own a JP Music Man (more of a single coil guy), but if I wanted a "metal" guitar, it would easily be in consideration for me. There is a lot that is appealing about the guitar, beyond simply "JP plays it". It features top-notch build quality, top-notch components, it feels absolutely great, and it has a classy, nearly timeless look to it without looking too boutique or ornate. What other "metal" guitar can you really say that about?
Now, if you want to bash the Majesty guitar, fine by me. That thing's hideous. :lol
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Yeah, for real. A guitar is a huge part of a rig in terms of developing a tone.
No, it is not. Of course there's gonna be a difference between a $100 guitar and a $3000 guitar, but the difference between two guitars in the same price range, made for the same general style of music (in this case, metal), will sound eerily similar when played through the same amplifier. The pickups do quite a lot for the tone, but the guitar itself - that is, the piece of wood and all electronics apart from the pick-ups - does not.
Well first off, I disagree, but you are also attaching a lot of "ifs" to that statement. It doesn't make that big of a difference "if" the guitars are in the same price range, "if" they are design for the same style of music, etc.... If you are going to attach all those "if" statements, I could say the same thing about any part of any guitar rig.
It doesn't matter what amp you play, it doesn't change your tone that much. As long as you are comparing amps in the same price range, designed for the same type of music, and have similar features.
It doesn't matter what pedals you use, it doesn't change your tone that much. As long as you are comparing pedals in the same price range, design for the same type of music, and have similar features.
The fact of the matter is that ever single piece of a signal chain (guitar absolutely included) changes the tone of a rig in various ways. The guitar being used, the amp being used, and the player's hands are probably the three biggest tone-defining parts of any rig.
All of that. Plus, there is a LOT more to a guitar player's sound than just tone, so I'm not sure how the scope of the discussion somehow got shifted to only be limited to tone.
Funny story about Ted Nugent playing through Eddie Van Halen's rig, trying to get that same trademark sound. (https://www.guitarworld.com/eddie-van-halen-remembers-meeting-ted-nugent)
"Ted was cool enough to give the band a sound check," he said. "He's standing off to the side and he's listening to me, and he comes up and says, 'Hey, you little shit! Where's your little magic black box?' I'm going, Who the fuck is that? And it was Ted. Hey Ted, it's nice to meet you, thanks for the sound check. And he's going, 'Let me play your guitar!' I go, 'Okay, here you go.' He starts playing my guitar and it sounds like Ted.
"He yells, 'You just removed your little black box, didn't you? Where is it? What did you do?' I go, 'I didn't do anything!' So I play, and it sounds like me. He says, 'Here, play my guitar!' I play his big old guitar and it sounds just like me. He's going, 'You little shit!' What I'm trying to say is I am the best at doing me. Nobody else can do me better than me."
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Per MP's twitter there will be an NYC show on September 24th. Ticket details to come tomorrow.
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Per MP's twitter there will be an NYC show on September 24th. Ticket details to come tomorrow.
Sweet, awhile back he posted about trying to get something together for that day. Really hoping this is at the Playstation or Grammercy.
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MIKE PORTNOY's THE SHATTERED FORTRESS confirms the ONLY US headlining show (other than the Prog Power Festival in Atlanta which Sold Out months ago): it will be at Irving Plaza in NEW YORK CITY on Sept 24th
This is it...there will NOT be another North American show added!!
DON'T MISS OUT ON GETTING TICKETS TO THIS ONCE IN A LIFETIME EVENT!
Tickets will go on sale TODAY at 12 Noon EST
https://www1.ticketmaster.com/event/0000527CE2FF252F
Password Only! Must Use the Password FORTRESS to purchase tickets
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I'll be going. Interesting to see what tickets will run, I'm expecting $60+.
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In. $58 including fees isn't too bad.
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Bummer it's on a Sunday. I might have gone on a Saturday, but a Sunday would require me to take the Monday off.
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I got my tickets. I'm hyped.
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I think Mike has confirmed a lot of the shows will have Next to None as support but thats yet to be confirmed. Still £40 or $60 a ticket is very expensive in my books for essentially a DT cover band. I've brought mine and i'm massively looking forward to it just hope for that price we get something very special.
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I'm in.
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I smell a DTF meetup for beers before the show :metal
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MIKE PORTNOY's THE SHATTERED FORTRESS confirms the ONLY US headlining show (other than the Prog Power Festival in Atlanta which Sold Out months ago): it will be at Irving Plaza in NEW YORK CITY on Sept 24th
This is it...there will NOT be another North American show added!!
DON'T MISS OUT ON GETTING TICKETS TO THIS ONCE IN A LIFETIME EVENT!
Tickets will go on sale TODAY at 12 Noon EST
https://www1.ticketmaster.com/event/0000527CE2FF252F
Password Only! Must Use the Password FORTRESS to purchase tickets
Thank you for sharing the code
In. $58 including fees isn't too bad.
Spent the extra to make it $71 for the access to the top area for the better view and I am in for a DTF meet up :metal
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All in for the meetup. I'm coming down from CT, and will probably come down in the morning, and I will at least stop in for one round from McSorley's, about eight blocks away.
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Yeah, for real. A guitar is a huge part of a rig in terms of developing a tone.
No, it is not. Of course there's gonna be a difference between a $100 guitar and a $3000 guitar, but the difference between two guitars in the same price range, made for the same general style of music (in this case, metal), will sound eerily similar when played through the same amplifier. The pickups do quite a lot for the tone, but the guitar itself - that is, the piece of wood and all electronics apart from the pick-ups - does not.
This is correct and I'm quite surprised a number of people here seem to subscribe to tone metaphysics. What is this, the Seymour Duncan forum?
'What SD pickups would sound good in my swamp ash bolt-on with maple neck and pau ferro fingerboard? Oh btw it has vintage Kluson machine heads and a NOS aurochs horn nut.'
'We'd love to help you with a recommendation, but you've neglected to tell us if the fingerboard is attached to the neck with hide glue or inferior wood glue. If wood glue, we'll need to know if it's the red, blue, or purple labeled Titebond.'
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Bummer it's on a Sunday. I might have gone on a Saturday, but a Sunday would require me to take the Monday off.
Sunday isn't helpful for me either, but if I had an overwhelming desire to see this I'd probably try to make it work.
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Shattered Fortress will have one show in Scandinavia...
2nd of July in Malmö at the theater in Slagthuset. A 925 seat theater.
I will be there on row 1 with 3 friends. Swedes, Norwegians, Danish and Finnish people... get your tickets while they last at:
https://www.ticketmaster.se/event/mike-portnoys-shattered-fortress-biljetter/464409
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Slagthuset = slaughter house? :lol
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Slagthuset = slaughter house? :lol
Yes... it is an old building from 1904 that used to be a slaughter house.
It was converted to a house of entertainment after a period of neglect between 1969 (last slaughter) and the theater was opened in 1991.
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For those who haven't seen it, or already did but might wanna see it again:
Mike Portnoy's Shattered Fortress - Twelve Step Suite (Multi Angle) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TrZT_EyxXGk
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https://www.metaltalk.net/columns_seventeen/andy_rawll_mike_portnoy_shattered_fortress.php
So confirmed no A Change of Seasons, Honor Thy Father or The Best of Times
.... and it seems Mike is not happy about DT playing a Change of Seasons... :sad:
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A Change of Seasons is understandable because it would be weird if he played it at the same time that Dream Theater was playing it. The real loss here is The Best of Times. It's a shame that neither he or Dream Theater will probably ever play it live.
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Frankly I'd rather hear this band do A Change of Seasons at this point. Reaaaaally not happy that instead I might get Constant Motion and New Millennium.
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Frankly I'd rather hear this band do A Change of Seasons at this point. Reaaaaally not happy that instead I might get Constant Motion and New Millennium.
Agreed and Mike says in the interview the plan was to do A Change of Seasons as the Encore but now dropped it since DT are playing it.... Shame :sad:
Of the Dream Theater songs for which you wrote the lyrics, it would be great to hear the two songs about fatherhood, 'Best of Times' and 'Honor Thy Father', as part of the setlist.
"Those two songs are very important to me on a personal level as well as 'A Change Of Seasons' which I wrote for my Mom when she died in a plane crash over thirty years ago. So, there are three songs right there that have deep personal meaning for me. But, to be honest, I'm not going to do any of those three songs for three different reasons.
"I intended to do 'A Change Of Seasons' as the encore for the Shattered Fortress shows, but I recently found out that Dream Theater was doing it on their current tour, which breaks my heart because it's a song that I wrote about my mother's death that's such a very personal song for me. In any case, once I found out that they were doing it, I pretty much dropped it from my set, because it just felt weird for both of us to be doing it at the same time.
"As for those other two songs, I'm not going to perform those either because they both bring back very heavy emotions to me. 'The Best Of Times' is something that I wrote for my father and played it for him on his deathbed while we held hands and both cried. After he passed away, a few days later, I played it again at his funeral and to be honest, I've not listened to it again since then. It just breaks my heart and it's so difficult for me to hear that song now.
"'Honor Thy Father' is the opposite. It's a brutal hate song that I wrote for a family member and even though those feelings were genuine at the time, since then we've reconciled and I don't want to be exploiting that hate any more; now that I have a good relationship with that person.
"That being said, there's plenty of other songs that I wrote lyrics to in the Dream Theater catalogue to work with. There's literally twenty – thirty songs of mine to choose from for the Shattered Fortress set, for example 'Constant Motion', 'Finally Free', 'New Millennium', 'The Test That Stumped Them All'."
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I don't think it would be weird. The only problem (that I imagine MP wants to avoid) is that people are inevitably going to compare the two renditions.
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"'Honor Thy Father' is the opposite. It's a brutal hate song that I wrote for a family member and even though those feelings were genuine at the time, since then we've reconciled and I don't want to be exploiting that hate any more; now that I have a good relationship with that person.
On a positive note, this is good to hear.
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I don't think it would be weird. The only problem (that I imagine MP wants to avoid) is that people are inevitably going to compare the two renditions.
I guess but cant be that much different from any song they'll play being compared to how DT played it with Mangini. DT have played nearly all of the possible songs with Mangini so there will be comparisons.
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Sucks... because I'd love to see / hear the Haken boys and Eric tackle ACOS
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"'Honor Thy Father' is the opposite. It's a brutal hate song that I wrote for a family member and even though those feelings were genuine at the time, since then we've reconciled and I don't want to be exploiting that hate any more; now that I have a good relationship with that person.
On a positive note, this is good to hear.
Indeed!
And for the record, last thing that would have crossed my mind if news got out that MP was playing ACOS at these shows would have been "Meh, he's copying DT". It's a very personal song for him and it would have felt right for him to play it... just as it feels right that DT play it as encore after the Images and Words set, since it's from that era anyway.
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Anybody knows why it "breaks his heart" that DT plays that one? I mean, I get that its personal but they've played it a lots of times before and in this scenario, where they're playing I&W in its entirety, it certainly makes a lot of sense to play it as an encore, given that it was supposed to be on the album.
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Well, he said it, it's about his mother's death, so it's a very personal song for him... but as you said it makes sense for DT to bring back after so many year such a universally beloved epic, considering they're playing the album that was supposed to have the song, and furthermore the lyrics are vague enough to be open to personal interpretations.
The Best of Times on the other hand has many direct references to situations from his relationship with his father, so it's already harder to try and pretend the song is about anything you want it to be.
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Anybody knows why it "breaks his heart" that DT plays that one? I mean, I get that its personal but they've played it a lots of times before and in this scenario, where they're playing I&W in its entirety, it certainly makes a lot of sense to play it as an encore, given that it was supposed to be on the album.
I'm pretty sure that it breaks his heart that he can't play it because people would call him a copycat, not that DT are playing it.
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Anybody knows why it "breaks his heart" that DT plays that one? I mean, I get that its personal but they've played it a lots of times before and in this scenario, where they're playing I&W in its entirety, it certainly makes a lot of sense to play it as an encore, given that it was supposed to be on the album.
I'm pretty sure that it breaks his heart that he can't play it because people would call him a copycat, not that DT are playing it.
Yeah, that makes sense. I don't agree that he shouldn't play it but I get it.
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I get where he's coming from. But as mentioned elsewhere, there's still no reason why he can't play it and plenty of reason why he should. So if he doesn't play it, that's on him.
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I get where he's coming from. But as mentioned elsewhere, there's still no reason why he can't play it and plenty of reason why he should. So if he doesn't play it, that's on him.
Yup, I think this was discussed in another thread, but basically what Bosk said.
Also, I find it weird people would rather see a cover band (don't kill me over the term, it's the best label for this, IMO) play ACOS than DT play ACOS. :lol
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I voted for the middle option, but honestly, I don't see why both bands shouldn't just embrace it and do it. It's not a copycat thing. Mike wrote the lyrics to ACOS. It's his words, and I am sure he was instrumental in guiding the music along with the band. Who cares if DT is playing it too? Just play it. Give people a chance to hear the song.
One thing over the last several years I've learned is to just enjoy the music. People get way too pissy over who is playing what and why, instead of just going and immersing yourself in the songs you love and just enjoying it. I was guilty of that for a long, long time, and I let it go. I think more people need to.
Whether it is Shattered Fortress, MP's new prog metal band, or DT playing DT songs, just enjoy it and get swept away in the moment. That's what music is for -- a release.
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I voted for the middle option, but honestly, I don't see why both bands shouldn't just embrace it and do it. It's not a copycat thing. Mike wrote the lyrics to ACOS. It's his words, and I am sure he was instrumental in guiding the music along with the band. Who cares if DT is playing it too? Just play it. Give people a chance to hear the song.
One thing over the last several years I've learned is to just enjoy the music. People get way too pissy over who is playing what and why, instead of just going and immersing yourself in the songs you love and just enjoying it. I was guilty of that for a long, long time, and I let it go. I think more people need to.
Whether it is Shattered Fortress, MP's new prog metal band, or DT playing DT songs, just enjoy it and get swept away in the moment. That's what music is for -- a release.
I agree. And I'll take what you said in the first paragraph up a notch: Not only should he play it, but since the song went through so many different permutations through the years, he should do a different arrangement of it. That would not only be a treat for fans, but would eliminate some of the comparison aspect. And if either of the two entities (DT or an MP-led project) were to change up a song and do a different arrangement, it would be the MP side to do it. He loves doing that kind of thing. So he should either break out an earlier version of it, or do a different arrangement, or something. But, yeah, just do it.
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While I can see you guys' argument, I think MP maybe rightly perceives that there's a significant danger that his rendition would be perceived as the "lesser version". MP has so far stayed away from overtly competing with DT, and I think this is another iteration of that.
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I voted for the middle option, but honestly, I don't see why both bands shouldn't just embrace it and do it. It's not a copycat thing. Mike wrote the lyrics to ACOS. It's his words, and I am sure he was instrumental in guiding the music along with the band. Who cares if DT is playing it too? Just play it. Give people a chance to hear the song.
One thing over the last several years I've learned is to just enjoy the music. People get way too pissy over who is playing what and why, instead of just going and immersing yourself in the songs you love and just enjoying it. I was guilty of that for a long, long time, and I let it go. I think more people need to.
Whether it is Shattered Fortress, MP's new prog metal band, or DT playing DT songs, just enjoy it and get swept away in the moment. That's what music is for -- a release.
I agree. And I'll take what you said in the first paragraph up a notch: Not only should he play it, but since the song went through so many different permutations through the years, he should do a different arrangement of it. That would not only be a treat for fans, but would eliminate some of the comparison aspect. And if either of the two entities (DT or an MP-led project) were to change up a song and do a different arrangement, it would be the MP side to do it. He loves doing that kind of thing. So he should either break out an earlier version of it, or do a different arrangement, or something. But, yeah, just do it.
Two great posts right here. i bet that if Mike´s band played this song as an encore, not many people in the audience would go "oh, no, but DT is already playing this one on their current tour, so bummer...". Most of us would go "holy sh*t!!!!! A Change of Seasons!?!?! Fcuck yeah!!!"
Come on, MP, I know you read this forum...please play ACOS with The Shattered Fortress!!!!
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I get where he's coming from. But as mentioned elsewhere, there's still no reason why he can't play it and plenty of reason why he should. So if he doesn't play it, that's on him.
Yup, I think this was discussed in another thread, but basically what Bosk said.
Also, I find it weird people would rather see a cover band (don't kill me over the term, it's the best label for this, IMO) play ACOS than DT play ACOS. :lol
I think we have to "kill" you over the term. I'm not sure how that fits at all, unless your definition of "cover" is "version without the guy that sang the original version". I would much rather hear Mike play this than DT, all day long (and I think James is integral to the sound of DT).
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I voted for the middle option, but honestly, I don't see why both bands shouldn't just embrace it and do it. It's not a copycat thing. Mike wrote the lyrics to ACOS. It's his words, and I am sure he was instrumental in guiding the music along with the band. Who cares if DT is playing it too? Just play it. Give people a chance to hear the song.
One thing over the last several years I've learned is to just enjoy the music. People get way too pissy over who is playing what and why, instead of just going and immersing yourself in the songs you love and just enjoying it. I was guilty of that for a long, long time, and I let it go. I think more people need to.
Whether it is Shattered Fortress, MP's new prog metal band, or DT playing DT songs, just enjoy it and get swept away in the moment. That's what music is for -- a release.
I agree. And I'll take what you said in the first paragraph up a notch: Not only should he play it, but since the song went through so many different permutations through the years, he should do a different arrangement of it. That would not only be a treat for fans, but would eliminate some of the comparison aspect. And if either of the two entities (DT or an MP-led project) were to change up a song and do a different arrangement, it would be the MP side to do it. He loves doing that kind of thing. So he should either break out an earlier version of it, or do a different arrangement, or something. But, yeah, just do it.
Two great posts right here. i bet that if Mike´s band played this song as an encore, not many people in the audience would go "oh, no, but DT is already playing this one on their current tour, so bummer...". Most of us would go "holy sh*t!!!!! A Change of Seasons!?!?! Fcuck yeah!!!"
Come on, MP, I know you read this forum...please play ACOS with The Shattered Fortress!!!!
This!!!
But if doesn't play ACOS, The Best of Times or Honor Thy Father he's only left with:
The Mirror
New Millenium
Just Let me Breathe
Strange Deja vu
Home
Finally Free
War Inside my Head
The Test That Stumped them all
Goodnight Kiss
Never Enough
Constant Motion
Its probably going to be a 2 hour set so theres not room for many surprises
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I get where he's coming from. But as mentioned elsewhere, there's still no reason why he can't play it and plenty of reason why he should. So if he doesn't play it, that's on him.
Yup, I think this was discussed in another thread, but basically what Bosk said.
Also, I find it weird people would rather see a cover band (don't kill me over the term, it's the best label for this, IMO) play ACOS than DT play ACOS. :lol
I think we have to "kill" you over the term. I'm not sure how that fits at all, unless your definition of "cover" is "version without the guy that sang the original version". I would much rather hear Mike play this than DT, all day long (and I think James is integral to the sound of DT).
Kill away. Not sure what else to call it. At its core its a guy that used to be the drummer in a band, who is no longer in that band, playing that band's song with a bunch of other random musicians. For the record, I don't mean for the term cover band to have a negative meaning in this instance, that's just what I see it as, not making a statement for or against the group.
Also in fairness, I'm pretty sure you'd rather hear MP fart on stage for 2 hours than see Bonham come back from the dead and have Led Zepp perform a private concert for you and yours in your backyard. :biggrin:
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Kill away. Not sure what else to call it. At its core its a guy that used to be the drummer in a band, who is no longer in that band, playing that band's song with a bunch of other random musicians. For the record, I don't mean for the term cover band to have a negative meaning in this instance, that's just what I see it as, not making a statement for or against the group.
Indeed, there's nothing wrong with calling it a cover band, which is what it is (or MP + drummerless Haken + Eric "JP jr." Gillette). Even Mike would agree on that.
About the "breaks my heart" thing, I think he's taking it too far. The song is very personal? Yes. The band has played it a lot of times through the years? Yes. Are they playing it in a disrespectful way to him? No. Did he write the lyrics? Yes. Did he write all the music? Not at all, this is a DT song, not a MP song.
Following his logic, they should've never played PMU, WFS, 6:00 or any other song with KM lyrics after he left.
Btw, I also think he should definitely go for it and play ACOS of he wants to. It's his song as much as it's theirs and, as he said on that interview, the Haken guys are more than capable of nailing it note for note, so that would be a great experience fans, given that this is a "one time
even for selected markets only", it's the best/probably only chance at playing it that way.
However, if he doesn't end up playing ACOS, my bet is he plays Finally Free. It fits as the epic closer for the set and it's the best, imo, out of the songs with his lyrics that he's left with, which most of them have already been played by DT with Mangini anyway.
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I get where he's coming from. But as mentioned elsewhere, there's still no reason why he can't play it and plenty of reason why he should. So if he doesn't play it, that's on him.
Yup, I think this was discussed in another thread, but basically what Bosk said.
Also, I find it weird people would rather see a cover band (don't kill me over the term, it's the best label for this, IMO) play ACOS than DT play ACOS. :lol
I agree with Bosk as well on your first point, and think MP should have played the song as planned. As much as it does absolutely make sense for Dream Theater to play it now, it makes just as much sense for it to be his grand finale to these shows.
As for your second, I'm not sure why you're surprised. Comparing performances and general concert enjoyment against the last two Dream Theater tours I'd say far better were both Neal Morse Band tours I saw, the Transatlantic tour I saw, and the Shattered Fortress show I saw. Right now the projects Mike have going are far more enjoyable live than a Dream Theater show as a general rule. I don't even see it as a close contest. And they typically pull that off with fewer resources.
Portnoy has his issues with social media and general public perception issues, but the man knows how to orchestrate a great show. In comparison I viewed my last Dream Theater concert, which was front row, to... I'm not even going to go there because I've always loved the band and hope this is just a rough patch.
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I get where he's coming from. But as mentioned elsewhere, there's still no reason why he can't play it and plenty of reason why he should. So if he doesn't play it, that's on him.
Yup, I think this was discussed in another thread, but basically what Bosk said.
Also, I find it weird people would rather see a cover band (don't kill me over the term, it's the best label for this, IMO) play ACOS than DT play ACOS. :lol
I think we have to "kill" you over the term. I'm not sure how that fits at all, unless your definition of "cover" is "version without the guy that sang the original version". I would much rather hear Mike play this than DT, all day long (and I think James is integral to the sound of DT).
Kill away. Not sure what else to call it. At its core its a guy that used to be the drummer in a band, who is no longer in that band, playing that band's song with a bunch of other random musicians. For the record, I don't mean for the term cover band to have a negative meaning in this instance, that's just what I see it as, not making a statement for or against the group.
Also in fairness, I'm pretty sure you'd rather hear MP fart on stage for 2 hours than see Bonham come back from the dead and have Led Zepp perform a private concert for you and yours in your backyard. :biggrin:
Actually, no, but it's close, so point taken. :)
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As for your second, I'm not sure why you're surprised. Comparing performances and general concert enjoyment against the last two Dream Theater tours I'd say far better were both Neal Morse Band tours I saw, the Transatlantic tour I saw, and the Shattered Fortress show I saw. Right now the projects Mike have going are far more enjoyable live than a Dream Theater show as a general rule. I don't even see it as a close contest. And they typically pull that off with fewer resources.
Did the Neal Morse Band and Transatlantic cover DT songs at those shows? I'm guessing they played the music written by those groups, so what you are basically saying is that right now you like those groups more than DT. That's totally cool and a perfectly valid opinion, but doesn't get anywhere other than your specific personal preference at the moment. I conversely would be much more interested to see DT in concert performing DT songs than seeing NMB, just my preference. But I'd rather see NMB playing NMB songs than DT playing NMB songs. I think that makes sense. :lol
Portnoy has his issues with social media and general public perception issues, but the man knows how to orchestrate a great show. In comparison I viewed my last Dream Theater concert, which was front row, to... I'm not even going to go there because I've always loved the band and hope this is just a rough patch.
With all due respect to MP and to you (I do respect your opinion) I disagree. But it's based on nothing but my preference and opinion. I consider the tours with MM better shows than the ones I saw on the SC tour and the BC&SL tour. Different strokes for different folks.
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Actually, no, but it's close, so point taken. :)
:lol
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I get where he's coming from. But as mentioned elsewhere, there's still no reason why he can't play it and plenty of reason why he should. So if he doesn't play it, that's on him.
Yup, I think this was discussed in another thread, but basically what Bosk said.
Also, I find it weird people would rather see a cover band (don't kill me over the term, it's the best label for this, IMO) play ACOS than DT play ACOS. :lol
I agree with Bosk as well on your first point, and think MP should have played the song as planned. As much as it does absolutely make sense for Dream Theater to play it now, it makes just as much sense for it to be his grand finale to these shows.
As for your second, I'm not sure why you're surprised. Comparing performances and general concert enjoyment against the last two Dream Theater tours I'd say far better were both Neal Morse Band tours I saw, the Transatlantic tour I saw, and the Shattered Fortress show I saw. Right now the projects Mike have going are far more enjoyable live than a Dream Theater show as a general rule. I don't even see it as a close contest. And they typically pull that off with fewer resources.
Portnoy has his issues with social media and general public perception issues, but the man knows how to orchestrate a great show. In comparison I viewed my last Dream Theater concert, which was front row, to... I'm not even going to go there because I've always loved the band and hope this is just a rough patch.
I'm with you on that. I saw The Winery Dogs on opening night of the second tour, and it was stellar; I saw DT for The Astonishing, and well, it was far more special for the meetup before (and during, and after, when I met several forumers) than anything that happened on stage.
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so what you are basically saying is that right now you like those groups more than DT.
I literally worded my post with the intention to NOT say that. It's not at all what I was saying, or I would have said I preferred the setlist or material more, which while true in most of those cases, wasn't the point. I specifically said I liked the performance more.
What I am basically saying it, material aside, if you told me would you rather watch a performance from Dream Theater, or a performance with band where Portnoy has a strong hand in things, I'm going with the latter choice every time right now.
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I think there's a valid point that DT's renditions of songs have been very safe. That is, at this point, because they almost never modify their own songs, there are "canonical renditions" of almost every DT song that will be better than whatever you are witnessing live.
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People get way too pissy over who is playing what and why, instead of just going and immersing yourself in the songs you love and just enjoying it.
This ffs.. I mean, we're all free to express when we aren't comfortable with something... but actually giving that more relevance than the positive feelings?.. If you don't have them, then [Mullmuzzler 1] :facepalm:
But if doesn't play ACOS, The Best of Times or Honor Thy Father he's only left with:
The Mirror
New Millenium
Burning My Soul
Just Let me Breathe
Strange Deja vu
Home
Finally Free
War Inside my Head
The Test That Stumped them all
Goodnight Kiss
Never Enough
Constant Motion
Its probably going to be a 2 hour set so theres not room for many surprises
Fixed.. Now that's the full list I think..
Since The Mirror is an important song to both the 12SS and the Haken/MP connection, I think it's a likely choice... but then it'd make sense if they play it before the Suite right?.. That'd feel right and wrong at the same time if you know what I mean..
"That being said, there's plenty of other songs that I wrote lyrics to in the Dream Theater catalogue to work with. There's literally twenty – thirty [well they're not that much after all ::) MP doing his MP thing I guess] songs of mine to choose from for the Shattered Fortress set, for example 'Constant Motion', 'Finally Free', 'New Millennium', 'The Test That Stumped Them All'."
Did he just tell us the songs they're gonna play?.. It sounded to me like if he did..
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I'd be happy if he played Finally Free. That would very likely be an improvement over the more recent DT live rendition.
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Why does MP think it has to be a DT song he wrote the lyrics for? He can play anything, since he's not the sole writer of the music either. I'd like to see Haken take on Metropolis or Learning to Live, bring it on!
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That's what I thought as well, why limit it to only songs where he wrote the lyrics for? He was an intregral part of the band and could therefore justify any song, not that he needs to justify what he's playing.
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so what you are basically saying is that right now you like those groups more than DT.
I literally worded my post with the intention to NOT say that. It's not at all what I was saying, or I would have said I preferred the setlist or material more, which while true in most of those cases, wasn't the point. I specifically said I liked the performance more.
What I am basically saying it, material aside, if you told me would you rather watch a performance from Dream Theater, or a performance with band where Portnoy has a strong hand in things, I'm going with the latter choice every time right now.
Hmm, okay so what you are basically saying is that right now you like seeing those groups put on a show more than DT. That's cool. But once again, I was trying to make the point that those groups were performing their original material, not covers, that kinda makes a big difference to me. It doesn't sound like it does for you and that's fine, but it does for me.
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I kind of really want to see this band shred up the instrumental section of Constant Motion.
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so what you are basically saying is that right now you like those groups more than DT.
I literally worded my post with the intention to NOT say that. It's not at all what I was saying, or I would have said I preferred the setlist or material more, which while true in most of those cases, wasn't the point. I specifically said I liked the performance more.
What I am basically saying it, material aside, if you told me would you rather watch a performance from Dream Theater, or a performance with band where Portnoy has a strong hand in things, I'm going with the latter choice every time right now.
Hmm, okay so what you are basically saying is that right now you like seeing those groups put on a show more than DT. That's cool. But once again, I was trying to make the point that those groups were performing their original material, not covers, that kinda makes a big difference to me. It doesn't sound like it does for you and that's fine, but it does for me.
My unwanted .02 -- define "groups performing their original material." Yeah, technically, you're right. But only 3/5 of the band that recorded that material is doing so (depending on what the songs are). Those lines are so blurred now with so many bands.
I mean, who cares if it is Dream Theater (as currently constituted) or MP with another band? The latter is always going to be, with Mike involved, great musicians capable of doing the songs justice, and depending on who sings, even better in some cases (with no offense at all to JLB, the voice is obviously a touch thing from night to night).
I see what Nick was getting at -- MP's involvement, and the way he goes about putting on a show and making calls on what to do, creatively and performance-wise, are more entertaining at this point than the more sterile vibe DT has nowadays. And it's not that one is better than the other, or historically, one is preferred over one another. It's just from an entertainment value, MP-related prog metal is a bit more exciting at the moment. Nothing wrong with that.
Plus, (apologies Nick, if I am misspeaking here) Haken is one of Nick's favorite bands right now. So to have guys from that band involved, obviously makes the show a ton more exciting. It'd be like me if say Alter Bridge brought Chris DeGarmo on stage, and those guys performed Queensryche stuff -- I'd totally be more excited for that than I would current QR or Tate. Not because I think they are better than the original band, but because it's exciting and a fresh take on something I love, but with still one of the masterminds of that stuff I love in control of it.
I totally get it. Music is music, just go enjoy it. No need to be so rigid on likes and dislikes...
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My unwanted .02 -- define "groups performing their original material." Yeah, technically, you're right. But only 3/5 of the band that recorded that material is doing so (depending on what the songs are). Those lines are so blurred now with so many bands.
First off, it obviously depends what songs we are talking about, but I think your thinking too much about this. There is a band called Dream Theater. They put out albums under that name. They write original material that goes on those albums. Those are Dream Theater songs. Let's not pretend because a drummer and keys player left that those songs they contributed lyrics for our their songs, they are still Dream Theater songs plain and simple, no question.
I mean, who cares if it is Dream Theater (as currently constituted) or MP with another band? The latter is always going to be, with Mike involved, great musicians capable of doing the songs justice, and depending on who sings, even better in some cases (with no offense at all to JLB, the voice is obviously a touch thing from night to night).
I'm more interested in seeing the original artist in this specific instance performing their material, not other musicians covering songs, that's all I was saying. I totally agree MP does a great job of playing the songs, finding good players to cover the other parts, he still puts on an incredible show and he still knows how to promo and hustle a show without question. Whether you think the dude from Haken sings better than James is totally up to you, once again that's just personal opinion.
I see what Nick was getting at -- MP's involvement, and the way he goes about putting on a show and making calls on what to do, creatively and performance-wise, are more entertaining at this point than the more sterile vibe DT has nowadays. And it's not that one is better than the other, or historically, one is preferred over one another. It's just from an entertainment value, MP-related prog metal is a bit more exciting at the moment. Nothing wrong with that.
Once again, I can totally see what you are saying, but as someone who absolutely adored TA tour and performance, I would respectfully disagree because, to me, that show was incredibly entertaining.
Plus, (apologies Nick, if I am misspeaking here) Haken is one of Nick's favorite bands right now. So to have guys from that band involved, obviously makes the show a ton more exciting. It'd be like me if say Alter Bridge brought Chris DeGarmo on stage, and those guys performed Queensryche stuff -- I'd totally be more excited for that than I would current QR or Tate. Not because I think they are better than the original band, but because it's exciting and a fresh take on something I love, but with still one of the masterminds of that stuff I love in control of it.
Oh I get that, and I'm not as into Haken, so that probably makes a big difference. Good example with AB and Chris, I hear what you are saying.
I totally get it. Music is music, just go enjoy it. No need to be so rigid on likes and dislikes...
Was I being rigid? All I was trying to say is that I personally would rather see DT play DT songs. How's that rigid? I'm not hating or bashing anyone for wanting to see this SF show, if he was coming near me I'd go see it in a heartbeat it'll be a great show.
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People get way too pissy over who is playing what and why, instead of just going and immersing yourself in the songs you love and just enjoying it.
This ffs.. I mean, we're all free to express when we aren't comfortable with something... but actually giving that more relevance than the positive feelings?.. If you don't have them, then [Mullmuzzler 1] :facepalm:
But if doesn't play ACOS, The Best of Times or Honor Thy Father he's only left with:
The Mirror
New Millenium
Burning My Soul
Just Let me Breathe
Strange Deja vu
Home
Finally Free
War Inside my Head
The Test That Stumped them all
Goodnight Kiss
Never Enough
Constant Motion
Its probably going to be a 2 hour set so theres not room for many surprises
Fixed.. Now that's the full list I think..
Since The Mirror is an important song to both the 12SS and the Haken/MP connection, I think it's a likely choice... but then it'd make sense if they play it before the Suite right?.. That'd feel right and wrong at the same time if you know what I mean..
"That being said, there's plenty of other songs that I wrote lyrics to in the Dream Theater catalogue to work with. There's literally twenty – thirty [well they're not that much after all ::) MP doing his MP thing I guess] songs of mine to choose from for the Shattered Fortress set, for example 'Constant Motion', 'Finally Free', 'New Millennium', 'The Test That Stumped Them All'."
Did he just tell us the songs they're gonna play?.. It sounded to me like if he did..
Ah forgot about Burning my Soul! thank you :)
I'm still bummed out that we'll never see 'The Best of Times' ever played live one of Petrucci's best Solo's of all time. But looking at the remaining songs left I'd guess something like this:
Glass Prison
This Dying Soul
The Root of all Evil
Repentance
Shattered Fortress
...........................
The Mirror
Strange Deja Vu
Just Let me Breath
War Inside My Head
The Test that Stumped them All
Goodnight Kiss
Home
Constant Motion
Finally Free
I think Finally free is the logical closer there's nothing else that could of been used, Constant Motion with 3 guitars would sound incredible along with MP's vocals once again. The Mirror is definitely a given considering the subject matter and Haken have already played it with MP.
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Maybe they will play Raise the Knife? C'mon, a DT setlist made by MP must have a cool B-side! :metal :tup
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Maybe they will play Raise the Knife? C'mon, a DT setlist made by MP must have a cool B-side! :metal :tup
I'll doubt that, but only because of time constraints. Once he finishes the suite, he doesn't have a ton of time and will want to hit the big ones. I doubt he'll give up some of the bigger songs to play a 10 or whatever minute song a lot of people there won't know.
Not that I like that idea, since Raise the Knife (at least the live version) is one of my fav DT songs.
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Why does MP think it has to be a DT song he wrote the lyrics for? He can play anything, since he's not the sole writer of the music either. I'd like to see Haken take on Metropolis or Learning to Live, bring it on!
Absolutely!.. And, moreover, he can play literally anything, can't he?.. A cover would be great too.. Maybe a Haken song?.. And I like the idea of playing Raise the Knife too..
Man, actually, now that I'm saying all this and think about it, any kind of set would be great with such a premise (12SS and some DT songs)!.. I won't complain even if they play New Millenium three times in a row... I mean, because how avant-garde that would be?.. :lol
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So you all think he will open with the 12SS and not close with it? Or end the show before encore with it?
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So you all think he will open with the 12SS and not close with it? Or end the show before encore with it?
I think he'll open with it then play a selection of DT songs after ending with Finally Free or Home
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Why does MP think it has to be a DT song he wrote the lyrics for? He can play anything, since he's not the sole writer of the music either. I'd like to see Haken take on Metropolis or Learning to Live, bring it on!
Absolutely!.. And, moreover, he can play literally anything, can't he?.. A cover would be great too.. Maybe a Haken song?.. And I like the idea of playing Raise the Knife too..
Man, actually, now that I'm saying all this and think about it, any kind of set would be great with such a premise (12SS and some DT songs)!.. I won't complain even if they play New Millenium three times in a row... I mean, because how avant-garde that would be?.. :lol
I wouldn't be surprised if they play 1 or 2 Haken songs as this tour is a great opportunity for them to play for a bigger audience and take their career to the next level.
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Please no Haken songs. Not that I dislike Haken, but this is not really about them. Also, for me, both the Haken and MP shows are 3 weeks apart in NYC so as a fan, I'd rather those two shows to not be intertwined in a way.
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On the contrary, I would love them to include some Haken songs. Haken isn't huge so they never came to Russia before. I'm not saying they should do a lot, but one or two songs would be great to hear.
I just hope it's not Cockroach King.
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Please no Haken songs. Not that I dislike Haken, but this is not really about them. Also, for me, both the Haken and MP shows are 3 weeks apart in NYC so as a fan, I'd rather those two shows to not be intertwined in a way.
I'm not going all the way to NYC on a Sunday night to see Haken songs. I want all Mike, all the time.
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I wouldn't travel 5 minutes any night to see Haken songs. :lol
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I agree that in the US and Europe it would be silly to play Haken. However in South America elsewhere Haken has not been I think it would be a fitting thank you to the members of the band to throw out Cockroach King during the set and promote Haken.
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I agree that in the US and Europe it would be silly to play Haken. However in South America elsewhere Haken has not been I think it would be a fitting thank you to the members of the band to throw out Cockroach King during the set and promote Haken.
I really hope MP sees this and agrees with you
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Logistically, it makes very little sense for them to play any Haken songs or cover songs.
They have limited time. It's not like they can play a 3.5-4 hour set.
As I pointed out, once you finish the suite, you don't have a ton of time. Do you honestly think MP will use 10 minutes or whatever of that hour he has to play Haken or cover songs?
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I agree that in the US and Europe it would be silly to play Haken. However in South America elsewhere Haken has not been I think it would be a fitting thank you to the members of the band to throw out Cockroach King during the set and promote Haken.
In fact, I would like that Haken could open the shows, without compromising the DT set. Unfortunately I guess this won't happen, because the show is already announced and there's no comments about an opening band.
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Isn't Haken already getting promotion by just being apart of it? I think MP's made plenty of public statements about how much he loves them as well. Them performing a Haken song seems to just take away from the whole purpose of what this was meant to be to begin with. Now, if MP were given a long slot to perform (I don't know how much time he gets on stage, Im guessing 2 hours since his son's band is opening) then I can see Haken songs or other songs being performed and it making sense.
Honestly, I'd probably rather watch them play Haken's 1985 than a lot of the MP written DT songs listed in this thread, mostly because a lot of those songs aren't my favorite DT tunes, but that's not really what they are advertising this as.
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Do you honestly think MP will use 10 minutes or whatever of that hour he has to play Haken or cover songs?
They're already playing cover songs :neverusethis:
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Do you honestly think MP will use 10 minutes or whatever of that hour he has to play Haken or cover songs?
They're already playing cover songs :neverusethis:
(https://static4.fjcdn.com/comments/Gt+10th+grade+during+lunch+with+friends+gt+its+during+_828f7a217e95ee64bbaa877b6fb5b18e.jpg)
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Love Haken and can't wait to see them in Denver for the first time in September.
Playing any Haken at these Shattered Fortress shows would make 0 sense and be a bad idea.
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At least in Mexico Haken will open the show (along with Next to None), which is great since I've already missed Haken twice in Mexico.
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You wont have any Haken songs, for some parts of the tour Haken are doing their own shows as well around the same time to promote themselves, such as in Australia. So you wont hear any Haken songs during SF shows
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Isn't Haken already getting promotion by just being apart of it? I think MP's made plenty of public statements about how much he loves them as well. Them performing a Haken song seems to just take away from the whole purpose of what this was meant to be to begin with. Now, if MP were given a long slot to perform (I don't know how much time he gets on stage, Im guessing 2 hours since his son's band is opening) then I can see Haken songs or other songs being performed and it making sense.
Honestly, I'd probably rather watch them play Haken's 1985 than a lot of the MP written DT songs listed in this thread, mostly because a lot of those songs aren't my favorite DT tunes, but that's not really what they are advertising this as.
Bingo. I totally agree.
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Yeah, I love me some Haken, and in a different setting I think it'd be cool to hear what they sound like on some Haken songs with MP behind the kit (not that I have any issue with Ray's playing, I just really enjoy MP's drumming in general), but I'm going in September to see DT material. I don't think Mike would make the mistake of playing Haken tunes.
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Isn't Haken already getting promotion by just being apart of it? I think MP's made plenty of public statements about how much he loves them as well. Them performing a Haken song seems to just take away from the whole purpose of what this was meant to be to begin with. Now, if MP were given a long slot to perform (I don't know how much time he gets on stage, Im guessing 2 hours since his son's band is opening) then I can see Haken songs or other songs being performed and it making sense.
Honestly, I'd probably rather watch them play Haken's 1985 than a lot of the MP written DT songs listed in this thread, mostly because a lot of those songs aren't my favorite DT tunes, but that's not really what they are advertising this as.
Like Nick said, it doesn't make much sense in the US or Europe where they are known and they have/will tour but in South America or Australia that might not be the case and it wouldn't be that big of a deal if they played 1 or 2 short Haken songs so that people get to know them.
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Not sure this belongs here, but just saw this link of Next To None:
https://youtu.be/Sm40F4sbP4U
Bummer really, I was hoping over time they would move away from the MP/DT influence. But this song just screams These Walls in the chorus, and the beginning could come straight from SC I feel.
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Listening to the beginning now. While it does sound a bit SCish, I think that's cause DT tried, on SC, to capture to a really popular sound in modern prog metal, and these kids are just in that genre.
Kid has weird diction though.
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I want to like them so bad, but... it's just not really "musical" enough for me. Mike went from really good to great when he added his juju to some really well-crafted songs. Max ain't there.
And I'm sorry, but the growls are just out of place here. What, really, do these kids from Alleghany, PA have to "growl" about? I say that facetiously, but it lacks a certain credibility for me as a result of that.
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I actually think the growling or screaming is better than the clean vocals. That was my first listen to Next to None. Solid musically, but I can't get behind the vocals overall. Sounds like emocore and I've never been a fan of emo or emocore vocals.
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I actually think the growling or screaming is better than the clean vocals. That was my first listen to Next to None. Solid musically, but I can't get behind the vocals overall. Sounds like emocore and I've never been a fan of emo or emocore vocals.
This is pretty much my thoughts as well. Max has a ton of promise, kids still really young and is clearly very talented.
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I'm mostly concerned that Max is so roped into the machinery that he doesn't get the space to develop his own style. To my untrained ears I feel it sounds exactly like MP drumming.
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I'm mostly concerned that Max is so roped into the machinery that he doesn't get the space to develop his own style. To my untrained ears I feel it sounds exactly like MP drumming.
Only sloppier MP drumming. I've only heard the Next to None album once and I get that he's young, but I noticed quite a few spots and fills that sounded really rough.
Definitely agree on the vocals. If they were purely screamed, I could probably listen to the album more than once. But I can't stand the teen vocals.
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I'm mostly concerned that Max is so roped into the machinery that he doesn't get the space to develop his own style. To my untrained ears I feel it sounds exactly like MP drumming.
I feel like this doesn't bother me that much personally. He will undoubtedly be heavily influenced by his father so I can't find fault when he plays similar to him. I get it's an art and should be expressed his own way, but I can see where his own way is going to be very similar to his fathers.
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It'll be a matter of how he balances his fathers influence on him as a player and his own unique voice as a player as he moves forward and progresses. He's still young.
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This clip has the intro of the song Kek, off the new album:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BFX6ILGjAQM
Very interesting instrumental IMO and Max is clearly playing much better than on first CD.
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By the way, I think he's already a more extreme metal style than Mike. And yes, he's still very young to have his very own style.
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By the way, I think he's already a more extreme metal style than Mike. And yes, he's still very young to have his very own style.
Well let me clarify, since it seems like he's trying to do this professionally, him being young can't be used as an excuse to not develop his own voice as an artist. I'm just saying it may take him more time to hopefully do that, that' s all.
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I'm not going all the way to NYC on a Sunday night to see Haken songs. I want all Mike, all the time.
But it'd be him playing that/those Haken song/s anyways.. Maybe you wanted to say that you want all DT songs, which is, obviously, very different..
it doesn't make much sense in the US or Europe where they are known and they have/will tour but in South America or Australia that might not be the case and it wouldn't be that big of a deal if they played 1 or 2 short Haken songs so that people get to know them.
Yeah, I can agree with this; I was, in my mind mostly, talking about the show *I*'m gonna see.. But I wouldn't call "silly" or "a mistake" if he/they decide to include some Haken material.. I mean, it's 5/6 Haken members playing on stage after all right?.. Just 1 or 2 songs, not the long ones of course.. That'd be fine..
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This clip has the intro of the song Kek, off the new album:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BFX6ILGjAQM
Very interesting instrumental IMO and Max is clearly playing much better than on first CD.
The final riff was pretty damn gnarly, but I found the rest of the song to be a bit too much wankery.
I listened to "The Apple" and again, pretty good until the clean vocals kick in. Then it becomes unlistenable.
Max is playing much better though. The double bass is really nice in some places.
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I'll be there for the first night at Koko in London, Want me to message out the set as its played?
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You're obviously free to do so, but I'm seeing them two days after in Barcelona and I don't want to know. I'll just avoid this thread until after the festival :)
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Yeah, most people on the forum would like to know the set. Those that want to avoid spoilers know (or should know) to stay out of the thread.
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From MP's Facebook:
You can take MP out of DT, but you can't take DT out of MP... 🤘🏻
I've spent the last 6 & 1/2 years doing a million things that have NOTHING to do with DT...making all different kinds of music with so many great musicians...but intensionally NOT playing or revisiting DT material...
But now for the remainder of 2017 in celebration of my 50th Birthday and as MY GIFT BACK TO YOU, I AM FINALLY READY to pay tribute to my past and revisit this music!
These Shattered Fortress shows will be a fully-immersive MP/DT experience...The type of show, setlist & environment that I ALWAYS delivered to you great fans for all of those 25 years between 1985 to 2010
Everything from the house music when you enter the venue (cool rarities taken from my extensive DT archives) to the rare DT-era MP items I will have at the merchandise stand...even down to my stage clothes from previous DT tours that I will pulling out of retirement from my closet! (I hope they still fit!! Hahaha)
All leading up to the incredible show & setlist I have prepared for you...
Delivered by some of the best musicians in Prog today (the amazing HAKEN along with Prog's newest guitar hero: Eric Gillette)...all playing this music with loving passion and extreme precision.
For those of you that constantly post about missing me in DT, this is your chance to revisit those days with me…
Once the clock strikes 2018, I will be returning to all of the other bands and music in my life…(Flying Colors, Transatlantic, The Neal Morse Band, The Winery Dogs, Metal Allegiance and my brand new all-star band with Derek Sherinian)
For all of you that have been posting online for the past 6 years wanting to see me to "go back to DT", unless those guys have a change of heart, it seems this is the closest you are going to get!!
There are no guarantees for tomorrow...there's only TODAY!
So I am seizing the fuck out of the day... : )
This is the ONLY (and possibly last??) chance to share the DT experience with me and hear me play this music again...
THIS IS IT...CARPE DIEM!!
The biggest show of the tour at the 013 in Holland is ALREADY SOLD OUT! That means most a lot of others will as well...so get your tickets NOW to insure a spot in sharing these wonderful memories with me and celebrating my 50th Birthday with this music that was such a huge part of my life...
MP
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For all of you that have been posting online for the past 6 years wanting to see me to "go back to DT", unless those guys have a change of heart, it seems this is the closest you are going to get!!
There are no guarantees for tomorrow...there's only TODAY!
So I am seizing the fuck out of the day... : )
Well, citing the beginning of his post, he took himself out of DT... other than that, you just have to appreciate his enthusiasm and attitude! :tup
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You can take MP out of DT, but you can't take DT out of MP... 🤘🏻
Blabbermouth explodes...
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Pretty bummed this isn't coming to my neck of the woods. I'm not even a fan of most of the songs in his suite, but it seems like such a cool experience. I'd love to be there.
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...even down to my stage clothes from previous DT tours that I will pulling out of retirement from my closet! (I hope they still fit!! Hahaha)
Basketball jerseys? :facepalm:
All kidding aside, it seems like he really has put a lot of effort into these shows, and fans will definitely eat this up.
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You can take MP out of DT, but you can't take DT out of MP... 🤘🏻
Blabbermouth explodes...
Yep!
But the gig sounds like it's too going to be really cool! Old DT experience. Even having knee surgery ain't gonna stop me will be down there with my crutches lol
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For all of you that have been posting online for the past 6 years wanting to see me to "go back to DT", unless those guys have a change of heart, it seems this is the closest you are going to get!!
There are no guarantees for tomorrow...there's only TODAY!
:lol He quit the band and still finds unique ways to blame the other guys.
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Well, he quit, he'd be interested in coming back, the guys in the band have to want him back first. I don't see anything wrong with that statement.
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I'm happy for him that he's finally able to put DT behind him. Doing these shows is a way for him personally to leave it in the past.
Now interviewers better not ask him anymore DT questions after these shows.
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For all of you that have been posting online for the past 6 years wanting to see me to "go back to DT", unless those guys have a change of heart, it seems this is the closest you are going to get!!
Oh man, things like these remind me why I completely stopped following MP on social media. Looks like he forgot HE was the one who quit in the first place. It's not like he got kicked out or anything like that.
And it's been almost 7 years since he left, but he's still throwing statements like these, indirectly feeding the post-MP DT haters that will go "DT sucks now, you were the soul... they show no respect..." :facepalm:
I still think the guy is a very good drummer/musician and hope the tour goes well. Haken is one of my favorite bands right now and really like the band MP got for these shows.
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Don't really see the issue with MP's statement. He's been open about having reached out to the guys since he quit, but they're not interested.
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Well, he quit, he'd be interested in coming back, the guys in the band have to want him back first. I don't see anything wrong with that statement.
Nothing wrong with it, its just the usual. Painting himself as a victim just looking out for the fans. Not mentioning the fact that he'd still be in the band if he didn't walk away from it.
Oh man, things like these remind me why I completely stopped following MP on social media. Looks like he forgot HE was the one who quit in the first place. It's not like he got kicked out or anything like that.
And it's been almost 7 years since he left, but he's still throwing statements like these, indirectly feeding the post-MP DT haters that will go "DT sucks now, you were the soul... they show no respect..." :facepalm:
I still think the guy is a very good drummer/musician and hope the tour goes well. Haken is one of my favorite bands right now and really like the band MP got for these shows.
Yup, I agree. Mission accomplished though, great hype for the project and the shows. It'll sell some tickets. MP still knows how to promo a show, that's for sure.
On a positive note, the other part of his post was great, about all the little details from house music to what he will wear. That's the kind of attention to detail that has always amazed me about Mike. It's cool for the fans, he gets that, and delivers.
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Don't really see the issue with MP's statement. He's been open about having reached out to the guys since he quit, but they're not interested.
Yea, I feel like he's made this known before so saying it again doesn't really make me feel like there is anything wrong with it especially when he is now touring playing DT songs. I got to imagine that jolts some DT feels for him.
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Don't really see the issue with MP's statement. He's been open about having reached out to the guys since he quit, but they're not interested.
He's basically blaming the DT guys for him not being in the band anymore.
1. He quit by his own will.
2. When he tried to return, they had already gone through the audition process and had already welcomed MM as a new member. Mangini had to quit his full time job at Berklee to commit 100% to the band.
Imagine them going through all of that (which I bet wasn't cheap, btw), only to be reached again by MP saying he wants to return. Really? Mike needs to learn some actions have consecuences and you can't really undo things only because you changed your mind.
What were the guys supposed to tell Mangini? "Oh, yeah, we totally told you to leave your job and commit 100% to this, but now Portnoy has returned, so you can go back to your old life. No worries, bro." :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm:
On a positive note, the other part of his post was great, about all the little details from house music to what he will wear. That's the kind of attention to detail that has always amazed me about Mike. It's cool for the fans, he gets that, and delivers.
Indeed. Mike always thinks of that kind of details for evey band he's with. I'm sure these shows will be great from that perspective.
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Don't really see the issue with MP's statement. He's been open about having reached out to the guys since he quit, but they're not interested.
Completely agree don't see anything wrong with the statement
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For all of you that have been posting online for the past 6 years wanting to see me to "go back to DT", unless those guys have a change of heart, it seems this is the closest you are going to get!!
Oh man, things like these remind me why I completely stopped following MP on social media. Looks like he forgot HE was the one who quit in the first place. It's not like he got kicked out or anything like that.
And it's been almost 7 years since he left, but he's still throwing statements like these, indirectly feeding the post-MP DT haters that will go "DT sucks now, you were the soul... they show no respect..." :facepalm:
I still think the guy is a very good drummer/musician and hope the tour goes well. Haken is one of my favorite bands right now and really like the band MP got for these shows.
I don't agree with this point of view. There are a thousand threads here about how "the VH brothers ought to take back Mike!" and "Paul and Gene are suck ASSHOLES! Why do they keep rejecting Ace and Peter??"
I don't think it matters one bit that "he quit!" We weren't there. We don't at all know that it is as cut and dry, black and white, step y step as this sounds. Nothing in life is. We have no way of knowing whether the MM thing wasn't just as big a "FUCK YOU" to Mike as Tommy Thayer and Wolfgang Van Halen are.
Not sure why Mike is always made out to be the bad guy in these scenarios.
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Ya know, as a fan, I just don't care about the whole blame game and negative stuff any longer. I am sure things were said by MP he regrets, and I am sure the band has said some things (in private, I would guess) they regret. The bottom line is MP is excited about this, and is marketing it as his final time doing (I am assuming here, because I am not quite sure what his new band has in mind) a FULL SET of Dream Theater material (again, assuming his new band might do a couple of DT covers).
The effort he is putting forth is what I remember Mike Portnoy being like. And truth be told, I wish I was able to attend. If I was still living in New York, I'd be there. Period.
What happened between MP and DT sucks. It's clear MP would like to return, but DT don't want him back in the fold. Whatever their reasons are, there's nothing we can do about it. But on a positive note, if MP is going to return playing prog metal again, and DT moves forward, we'll have two hopefully great bands performing Dream Theater material (again, assuming MP's new group does a couple of covers).
But this Shattered Fortress thing has really turned into something pretty cool, and at least for me, I really appreciate the work MP is putting in to make it happen (here's hoping you film and realize one of these, MP!)
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For all of you that have been posting online for the past 6 years wanting to see me to "go back to DT", unless those guys have a change of heart, it seems this is the closest you are going to get!!
Oh man, things like these remind me why I completely stopped following MP on social media. Looks like he forgot HE was the one who quit in the first place. It's not like he got kicked out or anything like that.
And it's been almost 7 years since he left, but he's still throwing statements like these, indirectly feeding the post-MP DT haters that will go "DT sucks now, you were the soul... they show no respect..." :facepalm:
I still think the guy is a very good drummer/musician and hope the tour goes well. Haken is one of my favorite bands right now and really like the band MP got for these shows.
I don't agree with this point of view. There are a thousand threads here about how "the VH brothers ought to take back Mike!" and "Paul and Gene are suck ASSHOLES! Why do they keep rejecting Ace and Peter??"
I don't think it matters one bit that "he quit!" We weren't there. We don't at all know that it is as cut and dry, black and white, step y step as this sounds. Nothing in life is. We have no way of knowing whether the MM thing wasn't just as big a "FUCK YOU" to Mike as Tommy Thayer and Wolfgang Van Halen are.
Not sure why Mike is always made out to be the bad guy in these scenarios.
Not trying to be disrespectful here, and, if my post offends you, I'm sorry, but I have to say that (the bolded part) is one of the most absurd things I've ever read on the matter.
I don't really hate MP, and I admire him as a musician, but we can't negate all the crap he's said about/towards DT since the split. If he wanted to leave the band and focus on other things (as he did) it's fine, there's nothing wrong with that. however, he's always taken these things too far and has allowed a lot of DT insulting and bashing on his pages. He even liked lots of these posts on FB. If he threatens to block people for saying Bumblefoot is involved in his band (I was one of them), he could politely say "thank you for your comments, but please don't insult these guys on my page", and not like comments that say "DT sucks now, Mangini is a f***ing robot who can't play", etc etc.
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I actually agree with what the two of you are saying.. One is talking about those moments in 2010/2011, which we can't know for sure what really happened or how, and the other is talking about the general MP's attitude since then..
I'd add to the MP's attitude since then, the MP's attitude before his departure.. From his point of view, he was "bored", which is understandable; from the guys' point of view, they never liked his general behaviour and the way he almost manipulated them to make things only he wanted to do.. And even when we all know this is highly probable, the latter point of view is just an assumption, only based in a few says of JR in some interviews and in our perception of what MP did in the band; but MP's boredom he said it himself, and that's why he's the first to blame.. You can get bored of something, even if is a band that makes so interesting and umpredictable music, but don't act like the victim or get angry because of that; take charge of your feelings, know that these carry decisions, and -as said before- that these carry consequences, and simply accept it..
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013 is sold out!? Glad I have my ticket.
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The way he worded it seemed to imply this is the last and final time you'll hear DT songs being played by him. As a sort of thanks to those who enjoyed his role in DT. Those fans that constantly bombard YouTube vids.
That is for the time being...I'm sure he'll pull one out later on down the way. But now he'll have his perception set on his other projects. Of which, his All Star one is the one I'm interested in hearing.
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To add more fuel to the fire. Someone asked him to just make up with the guys at DT already MP replied:
"I've made up with 3 of the guys...its their choice to continue on as they are.
They've seemed to shut the door on the past (or at least including me) and I am FINE WITH IT...
As of this moment, THIS is as close as you're going to get to the MP/DT experience and presentation in 2017
(Look at it like when both Roger Waters and Pink Floyd are touring PF music...)
It is what it is...
C'mon out and CARPE DIEM with us if you miss those days"
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Oh gosh...
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MP really does go out of his way to reply to loads of people in the comments section but that one should have been left alone
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MP really does go out of his way to reply to loads of people in the comments section but that one should have been left alone
I get he is trying to connect with fans, but honestly, he should not comment on other's comments in social media if it's not going to be something 100% positive. That's not a MP specific thing, just my opinion on anyone who is in the spotlight. Stay positive publicly.
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True, it is very revealing though means only one of the guys still has a problem with him and my money is on LaBrie, but in reality who the fuck cares.
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There's a lot of room for speculation in that message too. To me, it seems like he thinks JLB is the reason he is not back with DT. Also, it seems like in reality he is NOT fine with it. Just my interpretation.
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Three of the guys? does he incude Mangini, as in "I don't consider him an usurper" kind of thing, or did he patch things up with at least one out of James and John Myung?
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I would think he doesn't include mangini in that and I know he's been still friends with JR and JP so just JM and JLB left and would think JLB is more probable
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Yeah, probably that's him... uh well, not really for me as a fan, but for themselves, I'd love for those two to eventually patch things up.
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Agreed... why can't we all get along :metal
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Three of the guys? does he incude Mangini, as in "I don't consider him an usurper" kind of thing, or did he patch things up with at least one out of James and John Myung?
I don't think he even considers Mangini a DT member...
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Agreed... why can't we all get along :metal
Life is too short to not get over their differences IMO
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There's a lot of room for speculation in that message too. To me, it seems like he thinks JLB is the reason he is not back with DT.
That is your interpretation, and I don't believe it's true. MP does not think JL is the reason why he's not back in the band - pretty sure he knows that the rest of the guys are happy with the way things are right now and don't have any intentions of kicking MM out to make room for MP. Why is that so hard to believe?
Three of the guys? does he incude Mangini, as in "I don't consider him an usurper" kind of thing, or did he patch things up with at least one out of James and John Myung?
I'd bet on him patching things up with JM over JL since they live within walking distance of each other, and Lisa and Marlene (their respective wives) were bandmates and close friends too. Pretty sure it will take a lot more before MP and JL will finally bury the hatchet.
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There's a lot of room for speculation in that message too. To me, it seems like he thinks JLB is the reason he is not back with DT.
That is your interpretation, and I don't believe it's true. MP does not think JL is the reason why he's not back in the band - pretty sure he knows that the rest of the guys are happy with the way things are right now and don't have any intentions of kicking MM out to make room for MP. Why is that so hard to believe?
I don't personally believe that. From my understanding, it is because DT didn't want to reject MM after he already made arrangements to join the band. But since you asked:
"I've made up with 3 of the guys...its their choice to continue on as they are."
So he is implying he is only on bad terms with one person in the band, and in the continuation of his sentence then says they choose to continue as they are. Since it's the same sentance (or written thought) it seems to me that MP sees a relationship between the one person he has not made up with and the band continuing as they are.
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I don't personally believe that. From my understanding, it is because DT didn't want to reject MM after he already made arrangements to join the band. But since you asked:
"I've made up with 3 of the guys...its their choice to continue on as they are."
Cram, seems the band very happily and forcefully called MP's bluff.
My interpretation is that he's cool with Jordan, JM, and Mangini.
Labrie does not call the shots.
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I've read somewhere that Mike has said he's on good terms with JP and JR has posted stuff before of him meeting up with MP
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So he is implying he is only on bad terms with one person in the band, and in the continuation of his sentence then says they choose to continue as they are. Since it's the same sentance (or written thought) it seems to me that MP sees a relationship between the one person he has not made up with and the band continuing as they are.
How does his implying that he hasn't patched up things with one of the guys equate to this unnamed person being the only thing holding the band back from MP rejoining the band? I'm sorry, but that's just silly to read that interpretation into what is a pretty cut and dry statement. If that were the case, there would be no issue and MP would already be back in the band. As Tim said, JL does not call the shots in the band - JP does.
My interpretation is that he's cool with Jordan, JM, and Mangini.
I do not know who the third person is that he's cool with, but besides JR, I can confirm that he's cool with JP.
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Being cool with JP and JP wanting him back are two entirely different things. JP has embraced the role of undisputed band leader and I dont see him ever relinquishing that. Not that that is a bad thing.
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So he is implying he is only on bad terms with one person in the band, and in the continuation of his sentence then says they choose to continue as they are. Since it's the same sentance (or written thought) it seems to me that MP sees a relationship between the one person he has not made up with and the band continuing as they are.
How does his implying that he hasn't patched up things with one of the guys equate to this unnamed person being the only thing holding the band back from MP rejoining the band? I'm sorry, but that's just silly to read that interpretation into what is a pretty cut and dry statement. If that were the case, there would be no issue and MP would already be back in the band. As Tim said, JL does not call the shots in the band - JP does.
So what's stopping JP from saying the fact that JLB and MP don't get along is a reason for him to not rejoin. I think I already explained myself though. I don't personally believe any of that, just that his wording makes me feel MP believes that and his statement is definitely not cut and dry. It's two thoughts combined into one statement hence why, to me, it implies a relation as I explained.
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I don't personally believe any of that, just that his wording makes me feel MP believes that and his statement is definitely not cut and dry. It's two thoughts combined into one statement hence why, to me, it implies a relation as I explained.
Believe what you want, but as someone who knows them personally, I'm pretty confident that is not the case at all.
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I also don't see anything wrong with that statement and I can't understand how you can interpret it as MP blaming the guys.
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I can confirm that he's cool with JP.
That's great news Scott!
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I don't personally believe any of that, just that his wording makes me feel MP believes that and his statement is definitely not cut and dry. It's two thoughts combined into one statement hence why, to me, it implies a relation as I explained.
Believe what you want, but as someone who knows them personally, I'm pretty confident that is not the case at all.
Then we are on the same page :biggrin:
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Agreed... why can't we all get along :metal
Life is too short to not get over their differences IMO
It is also too short to spend it working with someone who is...difficult.
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Don't really see the issue with MP's statement. He's been open about having reached out to the guys since he quit, but they're not interested.
He has also trashed them since the split, both directly and passive-aggressively. Meanwhile, the DT guys have been nothing but classy the entire time.
Would you want someone back who's taken so many shots at you over the years and has a history of holding grudges?
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Don't really see the issue with MP's statement. He's been open about having reached out to the guys since he quit, but they're not interested.
He has also trashed them since the split, both directly and passive-aggressively. Meanwhile, the DT guys have been nothing but classy the entire time.
Would you want someone back who's taken so many shots at you over the years and has a history of holding grudges?
Your last name must be Hammer, because you hit that one on the head.
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That's his porn name.
I will always follow Mike and his music but he needs to stop talking about DT. 6 years later he still is and he is solely the reason he is not in the band anymore.
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Don't really see the issue with MP's statement. He's been open about having reached out to the guys since he quit, but they're not interested.
He has also trashed them since the split, both directly and passive-aggressively. Meanwhile, the DT guys have been nothing but classy the entire time.
Would you want someone back who's taken so many shots at you over the years and has a history of holding grudges?
Your last name must be Hammer, because you hit that one on the head.
This.
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I think it's pretty clear that MP is bitter and there is no doubt in my mind that if asked to come back he'd drop everything to rejoin.
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I also don't see anything wrong with that statement and I can't understand how you can interpret it as MP blaming the guys.
:lol
Don't really see the issue with MP's statement. He's been open about having reached out to the guys since he quit, but they're not interested.
He has also trashed them since the split, both directly and passive-aggressively. Meanwhile, the DT guys have been nothing but classy the entire time.
Would you want someone back who's taken so many shots at you over the years and has a history of holding grudges?
Your last name must be Hammer, because you hit that one on the head.
This.
Agreed.
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I do not know who the third person is that he's cool with, but besides JR, I can confirm that he's cool with JP.
As a fan, that makes me happy. Those two were close for so long, it would be absolutely wrong for them to not have been on good terms. Thanks for sharing that, Scott.
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I do not know who the third person is that he's cool with, but besides JR, I can confirm that he's cool with JP.
As a fan, that makes me happy. Those two were close for so long, it would be absolutely wrong for them to not have been on good terms. Thanks for sharing that, Scott.
The third person is Mangini.
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Don't really see the issue with MP's statement. He's been open about having reached out to the guys since he quit, but they're not interested.
He has also trashed them since the split, both directly and passive-aggressively. Meanwhile, the DT guys have been nothing but classy the entire time.
Would you want someone back who's taken so many shots at you over the years and has a history of holding grudges?
Not at all. I think it's perfectly reasonable that DT wants to continue on as is. I guess my point was just that I think it's pretty much public knowledge at this point that MP had offered to rejoin the band at least once after he quit and was rebuffed, not to mention inviting them to participate in his birthday bash (when it was still a one-off on CttE). It's also pretty obvious if you look at comments anywhere on the internet that there are a decent number of people who wish he was back in Dream Theater. So I don't see the harm in him saying "For all of you that have been posting online for the past 6 years wanting to see me to "go back to DT", unless those guys have a change of heart, it seems this is the closest you are going to get!!" in the process of hyping these Shattered Fortress shows, which is what I thought people were reacting to.
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Honestly, I truly doubt MP is talking about rejoining the band in his comments that we're all over analyzing. He's likely talking about a one off reunion show or something along those lines, which DT have (thus far) ruled out.
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I think that it's not about what you say, but how you say it. MP is kind of obsessed in being 'open' and authentic with his fans, and that's usually the very reason he ends up being 'misunderstood' and the very reason we're discussing his statement right now. He should just ignore the 'pls come back to DT they NEED YOU' comments the same way the DT guys ignore the 'Mangini SUCKS PLS BRING BACK PORNOY' and stop addressing the issue because people should already move on and accept things the way they are. If you keep talking about it (referring to MP), people will keep bringing it up. Does it inflate MP's ego to know that some people quit entirely on DT because he's not there anymore? I would say it kinda does, but I could be wrong. What other reason would he have to keep bringing it up?
Every time the internet seems to be calm with the MP/DT stuff the man seems to always come back to the same crap he's being saying for the past 7 years. In what way is it beneficial to anyone to let the people on the internet know that he's 'fine' with 3 of the DT guys? People are gonna assume the fourth one he's not ok with is LaBrie and they're gonna start hating on him (as per usual) because he's not being 'kind, loving and forgiving' as Portnoy is. Some things should stay just between them, and as someone very wise before me posted: who the hell cares about who's the one he's still not okay with? I know that the diehard fan that all (or most) of us have deep inside would love to know that even though things were rough they all remained in good terms in the end, but that's not the way it works. DT are happy in their current state, and MP screams in every interview and internet post he makes that he's fine and being the most fulfilled and creative he has been in his entire career. Do I believe him? Kinda, but there's more to this than we can see.
Sorry for the long post, folks.
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Don't really see the issue with MP's statement. He's been open about having reached out to the guys since he quit, but they're not interested.
He has also trashed them since the split, both directly and passive-aggressively. Meanwhile, the DT guys have been nothing but classy the entire time.
Would you want someone back who's taken so many shots at you over the years and has a history of holding grudges?
Not at all. I think it's perfectly reasonable that DT wants to continue on as is. I guess my point was just that I think it's pretty much public knowledge at this point that MP had offered to rejoin the band at least once after he quit and was rebuffed, not to mention inviting them to participate in his birthday bash (when it was still a one-off on CttE). It's also pretty obvious if you look at comments anywhere on the internet that there are a decent number of people who wish he was back in Dream Theater. So I don't see the harm in him saying "For all of you that have been posting online for the past 6 years wanting to see me to "go back to DT", unless those guys have a change of heart, it seems this is the closest you are going to get!!" in the process of hyping these Shattered Fortress shows, which is what I thought people were reacting to.
Because he quit, then once they already had moved on, committed to MM, who turned his life upside down to join the band, he offered to come back. That's kind of important to note. He made a choice and now makes comments that attempt to shift blame and responsibility for the consequences of his choices on others. Some people just aren't into that, that's all.
I think that it's not about what you say, but how you say it. MP is kind of obsessed in being 'open' and authentic with his fans, and that's usually the very reason he ends up being 'misunderstood' and the very reason we're discussing his statement right now. He should just ignore the 'pls come back to DT they NEED YOU' comments the same way the DT guys ignore the 'Mangini SUCKS PLS BRING BACK PORNOY' and stop addressing the issue because people should already move on and accept things the way they are. If you keep talking about it (referring to MP), people will keep bringing it up. Does it inflate MP's ego to know that some people quit entirely on DT because he's not there anymore? I would say it kinda does, but I could be wrong. What other reason would he have to keep bringing it up?
Every time the internet seems to be calm with the MP/DT stuff the man seems to always come back to the same crap he's being saying for the past 7 years. In what way is it beneficial to anyone to let the people on the internet know that he's 'fine' with 3 of the DT guys? People are gonna assume the fourth one he's not ok with is LaBrie and they're gonna start hating on him (as per usual) because he's not being 'kind, loving and forgiving' as Portnoy is. Some things should stay just between them, and as someone very wise before me posted: who the hell cares about who's the one he's still not okay with? I know that the diehard fan that all (or most) of us have deep inside would love to know that even though things were rough they all remained in good terms in the end, but that's not the way it works. DT are happy in their current state, and MP screams in every interview and internet post he makes that he's fine and being the most fulfilled and creative he has been in his entire career. Do I believe him? Kinda, but there's more to this than we can see.
Sorry for the long post, folks.
Great post man.
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I think that it's not about what you say, but how you say it. MP is kind of obsessed in being 'open' and authentic with his fans, and that's usually the very reason he ends up being 'misunderstood' and the very reason we're discussing his statement right now. He should just ignore the 'pls come back to DT they NEED YOU' comments the same way the DT guys ignore the 'Mangini SUCKS PLS BRING BACK PORNOY' and stop addressing the issue because people should already move on and accept things the way they are. If you keep talking about it (referring to MP), people will keep bringing it up. Does it inflate MP's ego to know that some people quit entirely on DT because he's not there anymore? I would say it kinda does, but I could be wrong. What other reason would he have to keep bringing it up?
Every time the internet seems to be calm with the MP/DT stuff the man seems to always come back to the same crap he's being saying for the past 7 years. In what way is it beneficial to anyone to let the people on the internet know that he's 'fine' with 3 of the DT guys? People are gonna assume the fourth one he's not ok with is LaBrie and they're gonna start hating on him (as per usual) because he's not being 'kind, loving and forgiving' as Portnoy is. Some things should stay just between them, and as someone very wise before me posted: who the hell cares about who's the one he's still not okay with? I know that the diehard fan that all (or most) of us have deep inside would love to know that even though things were rough they all remained in good terms in the end, but that's not the way it works. DT are happy in their current state, and MP screams in every interview and internet post he makes that he's fine and being the most fulfilled and creative he has been in his entire career. Do I believe him? Kinda, but there's more to this than we can see.
Sorry for the long post, folks.
What he said.
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I do not know who the third person is that he's cool with, but besides JR, I can confirm that he's cool with JP.
As a fan, that makes me happy. Those two were close for so long, it would be absolutely wrong for them to not have been on good terms. Thanks for sharing that, Scott.
The third person is Mangini.
Source?
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I do not know who the third person is that he's cool with, but besides JR, I can confirm that he's cool with JP.
As a fan, that makes me happy. Those two were close for so long, it would be absolutely wrong for them to not have been on good terms. Thanks for sharing that, Scott.
The third person is Mangini.
Source?
I don't have one, but he said he hasn't heard from "the other two", so...
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It'd be super weird if they had Portnoy back on bass and Mangini on drums.
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Tried checking out Next To None in preparation for tomorrow, oh dear god Max is obviously a talented drummer but the rest of the band are god Awful!!
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I think that it's not about what you say, but how you say it. MP is kind of obsessed in being 'open' and authentic with his fans, and that's usually the very reason he ends up being 'misunderstood' and the very reason we're discussing his statement right now. He should just ignore the 'pls come back to DT they NEED YOU' comments the same way the DT guys ignore the 'Mangini SUCKS PLS BRING BACK PORNOY' and stop addressing the issue because people should already move on and accept things the way they are. If you keep talking about it (referring to MP), people will keep bringing it up. Does it inflate MP's ego to know that some people quit entirely on DT because he's not there anymore? I would say it kinda does, but I could be wrong. What other reason would he have to keep bringing it up?
Every time the internet seems to be calm with the MP/DT stuff the man seems to always come back to the same crap he's being saying for the past 7 years. In what way is it beneficial to anyone to let the people on the internet know that he's 'fine' with 3 of the DT guys? People are gonna assume the fourth one he's not ok with is LaBrie and they're gonna start hating on him (as per usual) because he's not being 'kind, loving and forgiving' as Portnoy is. Some things should stay just between them, and as someone very wise before me posted: who the hell cares about who's the one he's still not okay with? I know that the diehard fan that all (or most) of us have deep inside would love to know that even though things were rough they all remained in good terms in the end, but that's not the way it works. DT are happy in their current state, and MP screams in every interview and internet post he makes that he's fine and being the most fulfilled and creative he has been in his entire career. Do I believe him? Kinda, but there's more to this than we can see.
Sorry for the long post, folks.
*golf clap* :tup :tup
Steven Wilson did a FB thing last week, where he talked about how much he uses social media, but only for business, and never gives out anything about his personal life, and I think that is the smart way to go. Considering how much he reaches out to fans about work stuff, imagine how revered Portnoy would be in most circles if he just stuck to business and never talked about personal stuff, had emotional outbursts, etc. Granted, that is asking him to be another person, but the two sides of his persona show why he is so loved by some and so not loved by others.
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So, he has buried the hatchet with JP, but still took a shot at him on FB tonight...
Mike Portnoy The fact of the matter these 5 songs were written about my battle with Alcoholism and addiction...
These 5 songs (as well as the 2 songs I wrote for my parents who have passed away: ACOS & TBOT) are EXTREMELY PERSONAL to me and my life...
If I'm being honest, it pains me to a great deal to see them performed without me....
I'm aware *i left* the band, but I figured there'd be a little human compassion and these ones one would've stayed on the shelf with so many other songs to choose from...
I in a MILLION YEARS would NEVER consider playing "Take Away My Pain", but that's just me...
Anyways, it is what it is...
I don't hold grudges or resentments.
BUT I also don't BS...so I'm just being honest
And these Shattered Fortress shows will be poetic justice and very emotional for me...
I look forward to sharing these moments with you all!
:facepalm: :facepalm:
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I wonder if MP has actually ever asked JP and co to not play ACOS.
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ACOS is one of Dream Theater's most popular songs. I get that he considers it a very personal song, but how can he really expect the band to not play one of their hits after he chose to leave the band? That's just a ridiculous notion.
I love ya, MP, but get over it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VhU4zXyCVgw
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I think it's already past the time to change the topic's name to "Make fun of MP and whatever he posts HERE!!!!".
I see nothing wrong in telling how you feel about them playing ACOS or whatever. I don't expect DT not to play it, but there is nothing wrong with expressing how he feels about it. Again, you see an "attack" on DT or JP only if you choose to. Maybe MP should keep this kind of stuff to himself? Yes, maybe it would be better. But it doesn't make it absurd to express how he feels.
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My guess is he figured they would never play any of those songs without him, otherwise he would have negotiated it when they went through the legal stuff when he left the band. He probably thought, "I would never play this song or that song if the shoe were on the other foot," and figured they would extend the same courtesy regarding those seven songs, but he was wrong.
However, hasn't the charm of Dream Theater live always been, "Hey, they have a million songs and there is always a chance that any of them could be played on any given night." While the band doesn't rotate set lists the way they did for much of the 00s, they have done a tremendous job of playing different stuff from tour to tour with Mangini, and telling them, "You are not allowed to play Song a, b, c, d, e, f and g," would go against the very nature of who and what Dream Theater is. They probably still feel like they can play just about any song from any of their albums if they feel like it, and you cannot fault them for that. I do suspect that The Best of Times is the one song they will always feel is off the table.
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Yea, I suspect TBOT is always going to be shelved, but they've also never played before MP left.
They've played ACOS a bunch of times. It became a staple at some point, so it isn't weird to assume they'd play it. They played songs about Kevin Moore contemplating leaving the band live, not sure what the big deal is.
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So, he has buried the hatchet with JP, but still took a shot at him on FB tonight...
Mike Portnoy The fact of the matter these 5 songs were written about my battle with Alcoholism and addiction...
These 5 songs (as well as the 2 songs I wrote for my parents who have passed away: ACOS & TBOT) are EXTREMELY PERSONAL to me and my life...
If I'm being honest, it pains me to a great deal to see them performed without me....
I'm aware *i left* the band, but I figured there'd be a little human compassion and these ones one would've stayed on the shelf with so many other songs to choose from...
I in a MILLION YEARS would NEVER consider playing "Take Away My Pain", but that's just me...
Anyways, it is what it is...
I don't hold grudges or resentments.
BUT I also don't BS...so I'm just being honest
And these Shattered Fortress shows will be poetic justice and very emotional for me...
I look forward to sharing these moments with you all!
:facepalm: :facepalm:
:facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm:
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Mike takes songwriting way too personally. I understand writing (and creating art of any kind) can be cathartic, but when it becomes a business endeavor, available for public consumption, that personal "ownership," for lack of a better word, becomes null and void. Mike wants to release personal material under the DT banner, but then control ownership of it. He can't have it both ways. TBOT/ACOS may have personal meaning to him, but if it is on an album available for fans to purchase, they have the right to form their own opinions of them, and the band, in whatever form it exists, has the right to play them. Same thing with HTF. He says he reconciled with the person he wrote it about, so doesn't want to play it live. But to us, the fans, it's a DT song we might want to hear performed. We might even have our own connection to it.
I would still highly consider going see this performance if the chance presented itself. I am able to differentiate the art from the artist. I wish he would be able to as well.
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Anyways, it is what it is...
I don't hold grudges or resentments.
BUT I also don't BS...so I'm just being honest
And these Shattered Fortress shows will be poetic justice and very emotional for me...
I look forward to sharing these moments with you all!
:facepalm: :facepalm:
:facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm:
There should be an emoji for "What the?! I don't even..."
MP saying that he doesn't hold grudges or resentments really sums everything up regarding his general attitude. Does "A special 'no thanks' to Terry Brown" ring a bell?
A while ago he banned all DT discussion on his own forum, meaning he got rid of the single thread where it was even allowed, so now there's nothing. I remember someone asked why and the moderator said "it's been 6 years, time to let it go and move on" which, again, is ridiculous since he's the one that can't seem to move on.
As for "personal" songs, why is it just cuz someone wrote lyrics the contributions of the other members suddenly mean nothing? He'll never play TAMP? When was the last time they even did? Late 90s? Early 00s? Who controlled the setlists all this time?
The saying "you can't write this stuff" works pretty well for MP. Every time we think that maybe he's done trashing DT he pops back up on the grid.
NB: I'm really sick and tired of people saying "I'm just being honest" or "I'm just being me and if you don't like it that's your problem" and things along those lines to justify what they're saying. Just like DarkLord_Lalinc said it's not about what you say but how you say it. You have to know the context and situation you're in and not just say or do whatever you feel like.
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I see his point in a way, but I would understand more his venting if DT had played The Best of Times. There's a lot of difference between a song never played live with direct and very personal references in the lyrics, and a song which is acclaimed since 20 years as one of the ultimate Dream Theater masterpieces, played live many times and always dreamt of for fans' ideal setlists, and with lyrics generic enough (aside from the heavy part of Carpe Diem) to be interpeted in other ways.
By now A Change of Seasons is a "Dream Theater" song, not a Portnoy song, just like Pull Me Under is their "greatest hit" and not a song with lyrics from Kevin Moore.
As someone who has such a fan mindset and knows more than countless musicians what fans want, he should realize how A Change of Seasons belongs to every DT fan by now.
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These 5 songs (as well as the 2 songs I wrote for my parents who have passed away: ACOS & TBOT) are EXTREMELY PERSONAL to me and my life...
And I always wonder, with statements such as this, how much did Mike Portnoy *actually* write in these songs? I know he wrote the lyrics to all the tracks, but every band member (apart from JLB in some cases) is credited as a writer on all of these songs. The song was not 'written by Mike Portnoy' so to speak. So, what did he add? Was it loose structures, themes, or complete riffs, choruses and melodies? I have a hunch that as far as having actually written stuff, Mike Portnoy's share would be fairly equal to that of at least JR and JP. So, yeah, while the lyrics might be important to him (and I totally get that), I do not believe that merely writing lyrics can be considered the same as having written the song.
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I always considered the lyric writing to be a very important part of the songwriting proces. Having written lyrics for songs myself, I somehow always considered the songs I wrote the lyrics for as being 'my songs' even if the whole band was involved in the writing and added to the proces. It's just a feeling, I guess.
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Didn't MP always emphasize that only Carpe Diem is about his mother and that ACOS is not a one-topic song while he was still in DT? Also, if the song is so emotional and dear to him, then why was he ok with the band inserting the Simpsons theme into it on LSFNY?
My take on this is that alcoholism and the loss of a parent are universal themes, and those songs have resonated with fans around the world. If I were MP I'd be happy DT are still spreading the message about overcoming those struggles and letting people hear songs that may mean a lot to them.
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Its tonight!!
Just a reminder i will be posting the set when it show starts. Doors open at 7 so expecting Next to None on at 7.30 with Mike and guys on at 8.30 GMT is my guess.
So if you want to avoid spoilers this is your warning
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Time to leave this thread until after Be Prog! My Friend then...
It's kind of weird, I'm seeing this thing twice in a week in two different countries.
Have fun! And say hi to the Haken guys :)
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Have fun. I"m looking forward to see what the setlist is.
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Didn't MP always emphasize that only Carpe Diem is about his mother and that ACOS is not a one-topic song while he was still in DT? Also, if the song is so emotional and dear to him, then why was he ok with the band inserting the Simpsons theme into it on LSFNY?
My take on this is that alcoholism and the loss of a parent are universal themes, and those songs have resonated with fans around the world. If I were MP I'd be happy DT are still spreading the message about overcoming those struggles and letting people hear songs that may mean a lot to them.
That's a mature and selfless perspective on the situation, not sure that even enters his thought process but boy wouldn't it be awesome to hear him come out with something like that.
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I think it's already past the time to change the topic's name to "Make fun of MP and whatever he posts HERE!!!!".
You have to realize that bitching about MP is the DTF way. People are way too critical of MP around here. They whine and complain about how critical he is, about how he can't let anything go, how he needs to learn to STFU, all the while, complaining and refusing to let go themselves and not being able to STFU about it.
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Also, if the song is so emotional and dear to him, then why was he ok with the band inserting the Simpsons theme into it on LSFNY?
I think you are now the second person in the thread to say this. But I have to say, I don't understand the point. How does inserting that somehow make it not emotional or dear to him? ???
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Also, if the song is so emotional and dear to him, then why was he ok with the band inserting the Simpsons theme into it on LSFNY?
I think you are now the second person in the thread to say this. But I have to say, I don't understand the point. How does inserting that somehow make it not emotional or dear to him? ???
Not saying this is my take on it, but my guess is because the Simpsons theme is humorous, and ACOS is a completely serious and thought-provoking song. The two don't mix. So it leads to speculation that perhaps the song isn't as emotional for him as it is for many of us, because he made a joke out of it with the Simpsons insertion.
For me personally, I don't buy that line of thinking at all. I think the song does mean a tremendous amount to him. The insertion of the Simpsons thing was a little light hearted moment to bring some healing laughter to the moment, during such an emotional roller coaster. Which, if you've ever lost a parent, or had issues with something, that sort of break is very much needed.
I get it, I mean, I prefer the song WITHOUT the Simpsons thing. But I totally get why it could be there, and I personally don't subscribe to the theory that ACOS may not mean as much to MP because they did that. I think it was just a little humor to break the somberness. And as I said, if you've lost a parent you were close to, or had a dramatic tragedy happen to you, that sort of comedic interlude...somehow fits.
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I think MP's frustration about them playing ACOS is understandable, but airing it on social media isn't the best idea especially when we already know what the general response is to these things.
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I think it's already past the time to change the topic's name to "Make fun of MP and whatever he posts HERE!!!!".
No one is making fun of anything MP posts, we're just pointing out how ridiculous (I would say that's a proper word) some of his statements regarding the split are.
Sorry, but I don't think there's other way to put it. I get what you say about there being nothing wrong with posting how he feels, but I find a fault in that: usually the way he words his 'feelings' puts him on a 'I'm doing everything right' position, which usually ends up putting the rest of the DT guys in a bad place; and that's neither mature or healthy for any of the two parties involved.
Also, regarding the JP post: that's so absurd. There's no way in hell you can compare ACOS to TAMP in terms of fan reception and sheer legacy. Playing ACOS in the actual Images & Words tour makes all the sense in the world for reasons I do not need to state here, a song that was written by Dream Theater as a band and is widely considered to be one of their all-time classics. True, the song is personal and close to him, but he's making a case out of nothing. I get why would he feel bad about the band playing the song, but how about keeping that to yourself and not going into a passive-aggressive media rant? I was once a big, big fan of Mike Portnoy but I swear every time he touches this subject drives me farther away from him.
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So, he has buried the hatchet with JP, but still took a shot at him on FB tonight...
Mike Portnoy The fact of the matter these 5 songs were written about my battle with Alcoholism and addiction...
These 5 songs (as well as the 2 songs I wrote for my parents who have passed away: ACOS & TBOT) are EXTREMELY PERSONAL to me and my life...
If I'm being honest, it pains me to a great deal to see them performed without me....
I'm aware *i left* the band, but I figured there'd be a little human compassion and these ones one would've stayed on the shelf with so many other songs to choose from...
I in a MILLION YEARS would NEVER consider playing "Take Away My Pain", but that's just me...
Anyways, it is what it is...
I don't hold grudges or resentments.
BUT I also don't BS...so I'm just being honest
And these Shattered Fortress shows will be poetic justice and very emotional for me...
I look forward to sharing these moments with you all!
:facepalm: :facepalm:
:facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm:
Nevermind the fact that DT fans, for the most part, really enjoy those songs god forbid they play them. And Poetic Justice? Was he wronged in some way? Seriously, I love MP as musician but him and Trump have the same problem with social media. At this point I think these Shattered Fortress shows are nothing but a big Fuck You to Dream Theater and are more for MP's ego than the fans.
:facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm:
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Considering how MP always says he does things for the fans, is it not ok then for DT to do things for the fans? I've been on this forum long enough to know the fans have been craving to see ACOS live again. I've never seen it of the 12+ times I've seen DT. I understand that he may feel upset due to his personal connection to the song (and I think that's fine), but it's a fan favorite. You can't expect DT to not give the fans what they want.
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Again I wonder if he asked the guys not to play it. If he is getting along with 3 members of the band then why not just ask?
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Because DT doesn't need to listen to what MP thinks or wants. ACOS is a DT song and MP is not in DT anymore.
I'm not picking any sides here, but that's just, factually, how it is - as far as I know.
The DT (and MP) fanbase still don't know exactly what went on with the split. Was MP bought out? Were there any terms or conditions to his leaving DT? DT are 'allowed' to play anything 'writted by Mike Portnoy' all they want, just like Mike can set up a band to play the whole twelve step suite (or ANY other Dream Theater material, for that matter).
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Because DT doesn't need to listen to what MP thinks or wants. ACOS is a DT song and MP is not in DT anymore.
I'm not picking any sides here, but that's just, factually, how it is - as far as I know.
Yup, that pretty much sums it up.
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There's a lot of room for speculation in that message too. To me, it seems like he thinks JLB is the reason he is not back with DT. Also, it seems like in reality he is NOT fine with it. Just my interpretation.
If this is true that's the greatest Fatal Tragedy in the history of the band.
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Got blocked by MP on Twitter today.
I don't follow him, but Haken retweeted his post about the Shattered Fortress tour which said "You can take MP out of DT, but you can't take DT out of MP"
I commented, "No one took you out of the band, you left."
Might have been an unnecessary comment, but it's a fact nonetheless. I don't see any reason to block someone over it.
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There's a lot of room for speculation in that message too. To me, it seems like he thinks JLB is the reason he is not back with DT. Also, it seems like in reality he is NOT fine with it. Just my interpretation.
If this is true that's the greatest Fatal Tragedy in the history of the band.
To be clear, I don't believe this to be true. I took that quote and interpreted it as if I didn't know better about the situation.
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I'm surprised there wasn't something in the agreement about MP playing DT tunes for profit. Obviously he can't use the DT name. Either way, the only person who looks bad in this is MP which is shame. I can already see comments from him about attendance and how positive everything was.
Also, this reminded me that I have been waiting years for a DT/Haken tour. Why this happened yet is beyond me. Haken would be the perfect opener for DT.
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Also, this reminded me that I have been waiting years for a DT/Haken tour. Why this happened yet is beyond me. Haken would be the perfect opener for DT.
I said the same thing in the Haken thread. It makes sooo much sense for them to tour together.
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MP on social media: I gotta say, I think I like the taste of A&W better than Mug.
DT Fan: ZOMG, WHEN WILL HE LEARN TO STAY OFF SOCIAL MEDIA ALL HE DOES IS MAKE AN ASS OF HIMSELF AND PUT HIS FOOT IN HIS MOUTH YOU QUIT THEY DIDN'T FIRE YOU #ALWAYSTHEVICTIM #NEVERENOUGH
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Yeah, because something like that actually happened here in this thread. ::)
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They're running behind. The que outside to get in is huge!!
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Yeah, because something like that actually happened here in this thread. ::)
Well, no, it didn't, but given the typical DT fan's usual reactions to MP's social media posts, I have to imagine fans of DT AND Mug Root Beer would react similarly.
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Walked in and an instrumental version of 'about to crash' is playing.
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Yeah, because something like that actually happened here in this thread. ::)
Well, no, it didn't
Good. So can we limit the fantasy strawmen to P/R then, please? Thanks.
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Walked in and an instrumental version of 'about to crash' is playing.
Cool. Is it just over the PA, or is there a video presentation going on?
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Just over the PA seens like its going through six degrees just instrumentally. The start of MP's rarity playlist Apparently prior to the gig
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Just over the PA seens like its going through six degrees just instrumentally. The start of MP's rarity playlist Apparently prior to the gig
Thanks for the play-by-play. Really appreciate you posting so we can all follow along.
:metal
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No problem dude shouldn't be long till next to none are on..... ugh I've not heard anything of their material I like.. naybe they'll win me over
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No problem dude shouldn't be long till next to none are on..... ugh I've not heard anything of their material I like.. naybe they'll win me over
[Ron Howard voice]They wouldn't[/Ron Howard Voice]
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Haha onto beyond this life got a sing along going to be fair this is awesome
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Just over the PA seens like its going through six degrees just instrumentally. The start of MP's rarity playlist Apparently prior to the gig
I wonder if this means he wont be performing songs from 6 degrees (since it's not normal for the music over the PA to then be performed live). We will find out soon.
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We'll onto honor thy father, could be? Who knows
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I think MP's frustration about them playing ACOS is understandable, but airing it on social media isn't the best idea especially when we already know what the general response is to these things.
Going all Zen for a moment, If he's not there to hear it, what does it matter? Does he have a problem with cover bands playing it?
Yes the lyrics are personal to him but there is so much more to the song than the lyrics. He wrote part of it.
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I don't hold grudges or resentments.
Hmm, it would appear that this is not entirely accurate...
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So can we limit the fantasy strawmen to P/R then, please? Thanks.
So you're saying that's allowed there now? ;)
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We'll now I've got a headache..... max is obviously a phenomenal drummer but he's wasted in that band
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Ah the old MP DT drum kit is back!!
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Which one? :lol
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Ah the old MP DT drum kit is back!!
Picture?
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Here we go!
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Here we go!
:caffeine:
Oh, and also:
:caffeine:
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Overture 1928!!
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Strange deja vu
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YES!!!
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Makes sense as an opener. Mike is still a master of set list construction.
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Best opener ever. I remember witnessing it live in 2007 during the summer shows. Awesome!
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The mirror
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Ok I predict Lie for the 4th song ;)
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Ok I predict Lie for the 4th song ;)
I don't.
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Mike is already playing three tunes I want to hear. Damn it. He needs to schedule West Coast U.S. dates. Hell, just two. No Cal, So Cal. Boom. Done. I'm there.
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Ok I predict Lie for the 4th song ;)
I don't.
Well shoot, I'm so used to listening to those songs that I forgot that it was written by Moore. My mistake
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Ok I predict Lie for the 4th song ;)
I don't.
Lie! :biggrin:
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Keytar is out. These guys sound fucking amazing it's unreal
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Lie outro
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Here's hoping everyone attending is filming as much as possible (although I have a feeling MP is recording it all for release on this tour).
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Lie outro
Well, okay then, I'll give The Keyboard Wizard partial credit. :lol
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12 step suite starting
Glass prison
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Lie outro
Well, okay then, I'll give The Keyboard Wizard partial credit. :lol
Haha told you!! So if I predict The Best of Times (which will not be played) they will use the outro of the song (or the MP version) as the ending themes??
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This dying soul
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The root of all evil
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Gillette on vocals
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Repentance
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MP on vocals for repentence
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The shattered fortress
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Encore time
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Home!!
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Nice! I wasn't really counting on that one. Good to see it in the set.
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Home!!
:metal :metal :metal
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Oh man, I can't freaking wait to see this band tear up Home :metal
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Considering how MP always says he does things for the fans, is it not ok then for DT to do things for the fans? I've been on this forum long enough to know the fans have been craving to see ACOS live again. I've never seen it of the 12+ times I've seen DT. I understand that he may feel upset due to his personal connection to the song (and I think that's fine), but it's a fan favorite. You can't expect DT to not give the fans what they want.
I would like to put a different perspective to this. I knew what his proposed setlist for this was going to be 5 years ago, as MP himself told me(there was another person on this forum present that may or may not back me up). He wanted to wait for the right time to do it figuring his 50th birthday would be right.
I can also say that things in the DT camp were not peaceful, they just chose not to comment on anything MP. Look at the timing of the I&W revisited tour, dates were announced pretty quickly and they hit the road before MP, and play ACOS as a FU to steal his thunder, as they knew how much he wanted to play it.
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The dance of eternity!!!!
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Finally free!!!
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Look at the timing of the I&W revisited tour, dates were announced pretty quickly and they hit the road before MP, and play ACOS as a FU to steal his thunder, as they knew how much he wanted to play it.
I obviously don't know the guys involved. However, you really think Dream Theater sat around and said "let's fuck with Portnoy by doing the song he most wants to do so he doesn't play it?" That's a bit childish, no?
I think it's more likely Dream Theater is doing ACOS because it was meant for the era of I&W and is a fan favorite that perfectly closes the show. And it's probably pretty likely Dream Theater won't do it again, given its length, and connection to MP.
Again, you know the people involved better than me, Bob. But that seems pretty...shitty. And unless you know that for fact (that DT did that), I'm not sure how much that's really likely.
>>>>>COOL on Dance of Eternity. Looks like MP is making sure to go heavy on SFAM. And then Finally Free (good call to whoever called that).
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Look at the timing of the I&W revisited tour, dates were announced pretty quickly and they hit the road before MP, and play ACOS as a FU to steal his thunder, as they knew how much he wanted to play it.
Sorry, I can't see that being their line of thinking. Like Samsara said, you know them better than me, but I just can't see it
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Considering how MP always says he does things for the fans, is it not ok then for DT to do things for the fans? I've been on this forum long enough to know the fans have been craving to see ACOS live again. I've never seen it of the 12+ times I've seen DT. I understand that he may feel upset due to his personal connection to the song (and I think that's fine), but it's a fan favorite. You can't expect DT to not give the fans what they want.
I would like to put a different perspective to this. I knew what his proposed setlist for this was going to be 5 years ago, as MP himself told me(there was another person on this forum present that may or may not back me up). He wanted to wait for the right time to do it figuring his 50th birthday would be right.
I can also say that things in the DT camp were not peaceful, they just chose not to comment on anything MP. Look at the timing of the I&W revisited tour, dates were announced pretty quickly and they hit the road before MP, and play ACOS as a FU to steal his thunder, as they knew how much he wanted to play it.
He could still play it, DT played The Shattered Fortress before he did, but he is still playing it. Was that also a FU to MP? Also, the I&W tours timing seems more likely to be linked to a poor TA tour and the anniversary of the album than a purposeful FU to MP. I don't doubt what you are saying though about DT not being at peace, they just take the higher road of not commenting. Also, it seems MP is then fibbing a bit about why he is upset DT is playing it (because they are playing it before him, not they are playing a song that is emotional and personal to MP).
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The Best of Times would have felt more like an attack on Portnoy. Playing one of the most cherished and loved DT epics so many years after it was last played (Hell, I follow Dream Theater since 1999 and I've seen the song live only ONCE, in 2000. That was 17 years ago. There are people who were born the day I heard A Change of Seasons live that now are having sex) and as encore of a show where they play the album the song was supposed to be on, it seems just a long overdue return to the setlist.
Also, since DT are supposed to play ACOS to spite Mike, is the whole Images and Words celebration just an excuse? "We have to play ACOS, that'll show Mike... but how? hey, how about this: let's play I&W in full, so everybody will see the song as tied to that era!"..... to put it mildly, it seems VERY unlikely to me.
About the show: how did the transition from This Dying Soul into Root go? did they just stop to play Root's intro over the PA like it happened on the cruise or they connected the two songs?
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Holy fucking shit balls I need to collect my thoughts.
Ok firstly amazing set. The opening video started with regression with a montage of DT songs around it. The videos at the back perfect, brought back the metropolis 2000 videos for the SFAM songs. Eric Guillete was a beast especially but everyone was amazing Ross Jennings vocals really worked sounded better than cruise to the edge. The transitions on the suite were similar to what was played then.
The dance of fucking eternity was nuts seeing Mike and the guys play it faultlessly was insane
full setlist
Overture 1928
strange deja vu
The mirror
The glass prison
This dying soul
The root of all evil
Repentence
The shattered fortress
Home
The dance of eternity
Finally free (including the metropolis 2000 outro and a fortune in lies tease)
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The Metropolis 2000 outro for me should have been the "canon" way to end the song live. I was a bit bummed when DT themselves didn't do it last time around.
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Would of loved to hear Burning my Soul or Just Let Me Breathe (both of them are MP songs), some nod to FII.
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Would of loved to hear Burning my Soul or Just Let Me Breathe (both of them are MP songs), some nod to FII.
I figured he would play New Millennium since he loves the song. Guess not. Bummer
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Good set overall, makes me even more bummed he's not hitting the west coast with this show. :-\
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Any chance this will be recorded? I won't be able to see this but I absolutely love this setlist and like the musicians involved.
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I would guess one or all these shows get recorded, but I do wonder about him being able to actually release and profit off them playing it. I mean, it can be done, but not sure what kind of effort it takes and if MP would feel it's worth it to deal with it but maybe it's not that bad since he is able to use the DT imagery to promote this. I'd buy it. That's a solid setlist, not terribly far off from DT's setlist from the DT12 tour actually and I loved that so I expect this to be a lot of fun when it comes to NYC (tickets are still available if anyone is on the fence).
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I've got a few clips recorded I'll post them when I wake up I'm drained as fuck now. Doubt they'll be a pro shot release MP has said it'll be messy with legal red tape
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And yes Home was really heavy was amazing!!
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Holy fucking shit balls I need to collect my thoughts.
Ok firstly amazing set. The opening video started with regression with a montage of DT songs around it. The videos at the back perfect, brought back the metropolis 2000 videos for the SFAM songs. Eric Guillete was a beast especially but everyone was amazing Ross Jennings vocals really worked sounded better than cruise to the edge. The transitions on the suite were similar to what was played then.
The dance of fucking eternity was nuts seeing Mike and the guys play it faultlessly was insane
full setlist
Overture 1928
strange deja vu
The mirror (with Lie outro and extended keytar solo)
The glass prison
This dying soul
The root of all evil
Repentence
The shattered fortress
Home
The dance of eternity
Finally free (including the metropolis 2000 outro and a fortune in lies tease)
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Sucks for a guy like me that truly hasn't the time or money to go to one of these shows. Would be cool to see on DVD.
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Would of loved to hear Burning my Soul or Just Let Me Breathe (both of them are MP songs), some nod to FII.
I figured he would play New Millennium since he loves the song. Guess not. Bummer
Portnoy likely reads stuff on the internet enough to have a pulse on what songs are DT fan favorites and which ones are not. As dear as the five songs are to him, I am sure he knows that the 12-suite songs are not fan favorites, except maybe The Glass Prison, and playing more non-fan favorites like Burning My Soul, New Millennium and Just Let Me Breathe would have made the set list look kind of weak overall. Every DT song he played today (not counting the 12-suite songs) is a major fan favorite, so I would say he did a very good job with the song selections, when looking at it that way.
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Got blocked by MP on Twitter today.
I don't follow him, but Haken retweeted his post about the Shattered Fortress tour which said "You can take MP out of DT, but you can't take DT out of MP"
I commented, "No one took you out of the band, you left."
Might have been an unnecessary comment, but it's a fact nonetheless. I don't see any reason to block someone over it.
:facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm:
Man, :facepalm: is really getting a workout these days.
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Pet Dick! :lol
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I wonder who has more people blocked. The president or MP :lol
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Since The Mirror is an important song to both the 12SS and the Haken/MP connection, I think it's a likely choice... but then it'd make sense if they play it before the Suite right?..
full setlist
Overture 1928
strange deja vu
The mirror
The glass prison
This dying soul
The root of all evil
Repentence
The shattered fortress
::)
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Since The Mirror is an important song to both the 12SS and the Haken/MP connection, I think it's a likely choice... but then it'd make sense if they play it before the Suite right?..
full setlist
Overture 1928
strange deja vu
The mirror
The glass prison
This dying soul
The root of all evil
Repentence
The shattered fortress
::)
:lol Well played, man!
I was sure they would play Finaly Free as the closer, so... ::)
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Great set. :metal
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Pet Dick! :lol
Rush me to the burn unit!
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Thanks FOXAN03 for taking some time during the gig to post the setlist. What about the merchandising? Mike said there would be some special items.
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Thanks FOXAN03 for taking some time during the gig to post the setlist. What about the merchandising? Mike said there would be some special items.
No problem at all! Unfortunately a couple of weeks ago i had to have reconstructive surgery on my Knee due to a work related accident (I'm a stunt man..... No seriously) So I was on Crutches. I have to hand it to the Guys at Koko giving me access to the disabled seating area, the view was amazing and all the room i could need as well as my own personal toilet (its the small things in life) I once ventured downstairs to get a drink had a guy help me bring it back upstairs and I saw the Merch Stand, couldn't take a pic since I need my arms to really walk but it was full of old merch that was left over from throughout the MP DT areaas well as a few new stuff was really cool!
I had a guy in a wheelchair right next to me pretty much filming none stop and I've just found it on Youtube, I think more will go up over time:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q_wfbtNfQkY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yfBw1QtbZXQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CiPkIdOXBF4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fdNgGxryjSk
One thing you'll see from these, this was one of the most Vocal crowds i've ever seen at a 'DT' concert the atmosphere was incredible.The Only downer for the entire evening was Eric suddenly getting technical problems for the intro to Shattered Fortress but that fixed quickly
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it was full of old merch that was left over from throughout the MP DT areaas well as a few new stuff was really cool!
Could you be more specific? I assume the new stuff is t-shirts with the posters and what about the old stuff if you can remember.
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Watching the videos, he said a very smart thing: "It's the first show of the tour, so you don't know the setlist, you're gonna get a spoiler free show!"
So, so, so true. Culturally, movie spoilers are a thing and people are careful about them, but nobody seems to care about the many people who want to watch a show without already knowing everything about it. Every time a major band I follow starts a tour, I have to forget about their Facebook pages and I even stop listening to random songs of YouTube, otherwise the algorithm will suggest to me recent live clips of them.
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Merch from various tours, T-Shirts, mugs etc the New Merch was just MP embled T-shirts such as the new Metal allegiance T he's now selling
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It's supposed to be songs Portnoy wrote lyrically right? I'd be curious to know how much he had to do with the writing of Overture 1928.
Could've gone lots of ways with lyrical melodies he came up with turning into motifs, etc...just curious ;D
I'll also say those singers are definitely on key and doing a nice job, but the vibe is severely lacking. Really is impossible to replace JLB when it comes to his voice in DT songs (I say this while being a huge Haken fan and a fan of the singer as well)
Overall seems like a really fun show.
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Lovely to hear the Psycho music opening a show again.
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Damn, massive grin on my face watching Strange Deja Vu.
Thanks for linking to these videos, FOXAN03.
I know it's not going to happen, and why it's not, but oh for an official release.
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(https://media.giphy.com/media/bSBV7BplR6Mx2/giphy.gif)
(https://media1.giphy.com/media/9O1V0tLsU9jA4/giphy.gif)
15 minutes to psycho, 15 minutes to psycho!!!
We want some rock juice!!
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That feeling when this is more DT than DT has been for the last few years
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Setlist looks pretty cool. The ultimate question is will MP have rotating setlists with this group? That's everyone's big complaint with DT right now, right?
That feeling when this is more DT than DT has been for the last few years
:lol
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I guess it's quite unlikely they will always change the set.
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I guess it's quite unlikely they will always change the set.
I would agree, I was, for the most part, kidding.
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Total goosebumps and chills watching some of those vids and seeing MP in this setting again. The supporting band is excellent
and the production looks top notch. Congrats to MP. I hope the rest of the shows are as well attended and the crowd is just as
energetic as London!
Awesome!!
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this show looks like a lot of fun! :metal
ps: the haken guy is sounding good on strange deja vu
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Thanks FOXAN03 for taking some time during the gig to post the setlist. What about the merchandising? Mike said there would be some special items.
No problem at all! Unfortunately a couple of weeks ago i had to have reconstructive surgery on my Knee due to a work related accident (I'm a stunt man..... No seriously) So I was on Crutches. I have to hand it to the Guys at Koko giving me access to the disabled seating area, the view was amazing and all the room i could need as well as my own personal toilet (its the small things in life) I once ventured downstairs to get a drink had a guy help me bring it back upstairs and I saw the Merch Stand, couldn't take a pic since I need my arms to really walk but it was full of old merch that was left over from throughout the MP DT areaas well as a few new stuff was really cool!
I had a guy in a wheelchair right next to me pretty much filming none stop and I've just found it on Youtube, I think more will go up over time:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q_wfbtNfQkY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yfBw1QtbZXQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CiPkIdOXBF4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fdNgGxryjSk
One thing you'll see from these, this was one of the most Vocal crowds i've ever seen at a 'DT' concert the atmosphere was incredible.The Only downer for the entire evening was Eric suddenly getting technical problems for the intro to Shattered Fortress but that fixed quickly
I am very much looking forward to DT's I&W tour, and the incredible performance of that record and ACOS. I am sure it will be stellar. But these videos almost brought a tear to my eye. You can feel the emotion in the room. From the fans, from MP, from the band. Man...
The singer on Strange Deja Vu...is that the Haken lead singer? Dude was amazing. He was spot-on. I am so impressed. I may have to buy The Mountain...
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Considering how MP always says he does things for the fans, is it not ok then for DT to do things for the fans? I've been on this forum long enough to know the fans have been craving to see ACOS live again. I've never seen it of the 12+ times I've seen DT. I understand that he may feel upset due to his personal connection to the song (and I think that's fine), but it's a fan favorite. You can't expect DT to not give the fans what they want.
I would like to put a different perspective to this. I knew what his proposed setlist for this was going to be 5 years ago, as MP himself told me(there was another person on this forum present that may or may not back me up). He wanted to wait for the right time to do it figuring his 50th birthday would be right.
I can also say that things in the DT camp were not peaceful, they just chose not to comment on anything MP. Look at the timing of the I&W revisited tour, dates were announced pretty quickly and they hit the road before MP, and play ACOS as a FU to steal his thunder, as they knew how much he wanted to play it.
I really have only seen any kind of passive aggression coming from MP and not anyone from the DT camp, so I doubt it. I dont doubt that MP told you that but that DT would be that way. DT seems happy with the end results and sadly I think MP regrets leaving. That being said, I am happy he has a chance to do this and get it out of his system. I am looking forward to his new prog group and continued work with Flying Colours and Neal Morse.
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It pains me to say, but recent DT performances I've seen online...do not compare favorably to this.
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It pains me to say, but recent DT performances I've seen online...do not compare favorably to this.
Yea, I love DT and all and enjoy their shows, but I think this kind of hits on the point of what the DT shows have been lacking since MP left, which is that raw live energy.
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They sound awesome, as I knew they would.
The circumstances of this still feel kinda bittersweet to me, but I'm glad Portnoy is doing this. For those seeing the I&W DT shows and the Shattered Fortress shows, that's a big dose of live DT music.
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Also, if the song is so emotional and dear to him, then why was he ok with the band inserting the Simpsons theme into it on LSFNY?
I think you are now the second person in the thread to say this. But I have to say, I don't understand the point. How does inserting that somehow make it not emotional or dear to him? ???
Not saying this is my take on it, but my guess is because the Simpsons theme is humorous, and ACOS is a completely serious and thought-provoking song. The two don't mix.
Yeah, that's what I was getting at.
Anyway, the chunk of Scenes in the setlist makes sense, given that it's easily the most classic and popular album out of the ones with a significant amount of MP lyrics, and that was probably the second-best option to play with ACOS out of question. The fact that DT played 4 out of those 5 songs (plus The Mirror) on the Along for the Ride tour is amusing though. :P
I still think a more metal-sounding singer would've been more appropriate for the suite, but the band is tight and Ross' voice fits in surprisingly well on the SFAM tunes (the clip of Home sounded good in particular, probably because he sounds a little Maynard-y and the song is pure Tool worship anyway :lol), though DT material played without James on vocals is always going to sound a little off.
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Also, if the song is so emotional and dear to him, then why was he ok with the band inserting the Simpsons theme into it on LSFNY?
I think you are now the second person in the thread to say this. But I have to say, I don't understand the point. How does inserting that somehow make it not emotional or dear to him? ???
Not saying this is my take on it, but my guess is because the Simpsons theme is humorous, and ACOS is a completely serious and thought-provoking song. The two don't mix.
Yeah, that's what I was getting at.
Next time, please capture what I was saying. You cut off the most important part of my quote:
Not saying this is my take on it, but my guess is because the Simpsons theme is humorous, and ACOS is a completely serious and thought-provoking song. The two don't mix. So it leads to speculation that perhaps the song isn't as emotional for him as it is for many of us, because he made a joke out of it with the Simpsons insertion.
For me personally, I don't buy that line of thinking at all. I think the song does mean a tremendous amount to him. The insertion of the Simpsons thing was a little light hearted moment to bring some healing laughter to the moment, during such an emotional roller coaster. Which, if you've ever lost a parent, or had issues with something, that sort of break is very much needed.
So no, I don't agree with you, ?
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So if DT never played ACoS recently the set list would've been the main set and ACoS encore. No Home/TDoE/Finally Free?
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Honestly, I think Finally Free, message wise, makes more sense, if that's what Portnoy truly believes.
Either way, I was blown away by the videos and am absolutely gutted I can't be in NY or ATL to see this in the states.
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You never know. I'm still hoping that these do well enough that a few promoters ask him to add a few dates, and that it works out with everyone's schedules that they actually can. Not betting on it, but you never know.
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I have mad respect for everyone in this band, especially Eric, however the whole thing just doesn't sit well for me. Can't really explain why, just doesn't seem right to me. That being said, if this get's more people into DT, Haken, Eric/Neal Morse etc. it can't be all bad.
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I am so absolutely pumped for this after seeing the videos. I bought my ticket for NYC immediately and I will be there.
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I am so absolutely pumped for this after seeing the videos. I bought my ticket for NYC immediately and I will be there.
:metal :metal
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So if DT never played ACoS recently the set list would've been the main set and ACoS encore. No Home/TDoE/Finally Free?
Essentially yes I think we would have got another song in the main set like constant motion along with ACOS since the encore was about 30 min long!!
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Wish there were some dates in the Pacific North West!
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Next time, please capture what I was saying. You cut off the most important part of my quote:
Not saying this is my take on it, but my guess is because the Simpsons theme is humorous, and ACOS is a completely serious and thought-provoking song. The two don't mix. So it leads to speculation that perhaps the song isn't as emotional for him as it is for many of us, because he made a joke out of it with the Simpsons insertion.
For me personally, I don't buy that line of thinking at all. I think the song does mean a tremendous amount to him. The insertion of the Simpsons thing was a little light hearted moment to bring some healing laughter to the moment, during such an emotional roller coaster. Which, if you've ever lost a parent, or had issues with something, that sort of break is very much needed.
So no, I don't agree with you, ?
I only left in that part, because it expressed what I was trying to say. I wasn't seriously arguing that ACOS has no importance to MP, because it obviously does - it was more of a sarcastic quip than anything, like "you have no problem with adding a humorous teaser into a song (partially) about your mother, but your ex-bandmates playing the song - respectfully and without joking around - is heartbreaking?"
I can see why you don't have a problem with the humor bit, and that's fair enough, but it's just that to me it sticks out like a sore thumb in the middle of such an emotionally heavy and personal song, almost like a fart during a memorial service. Not bad enough to ruin the mood completely, but pretty distracting nevertheless.
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Eric's vocal performance sounded pretty tight to me, loved it!
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I can see why you don't have a problem with the humor bit, and that's fair enough, but it's just that to me it sticks out like a sore thumb in the middle of such an emotionally heavy and personal song, almost like a fart during a memorial service. Not bad enough to ruin the mood completely, but pretty distracting nevertheless.
I don't get that at all. The backdrop and theme is about childhood innocence and loss. The song constantly bounces back and forth between the two ideas. Those alternate little parts in the "solo" sections that they added in SFAM go perfectly with all of that. I've never felt that it was out of place at all.
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Wish there were some dates in the Pacific North West!
Amen. Or just plain WEST. Alaska Air is cheap!
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OxBCVGj3OXg
Finally Free Outro
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RFKvZPB8Dj8
Part of DOE
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The clips that I've heard sound very good. There's not that much chaos and mess coming from the three guitars, they blend fairly well, and Ross does a fine job with the vocals, I'm very impressed by him. The energy is there, I gotta give it to them for sounding like they're truly into it. MP got together a bunch of great guys that can really perform this stuff appropriately.
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It pains me to say, but recent DT performances I've seen online...do not compare favorably to this.
Yea, I love DT and all and enjoy their shows, but I think this kind of hits on the point of what the DT shows have been lacking since MP left, which is that raw live energy.
the energy is certainly there...it's undeniable. A very exciting evening that would have been cool to be at. But, as far as the songs themselves and the playing of them....while they were executed very well IMO it wasn't near the musicianship of DT. Sounded great and all....but the 'something missing' aspect was that the 'something missing' was JP and JR. You can't replace those two when it comes to playing a DT cover.
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Sounded great and all....but the 'something missing' aspect was that the 'something missing' was JP and JR. You can't replace those two when it comes to playing a DT cover.
I agree overall, and I would add James to that as well. However, that being said, I have also thought MANY times through the years that DT's sound would benefit from having a second guitarist, and I think these clips highlight why. DT songs have so many layers of keyboards and guitars, and there is only so much you can do to replicate that live with only one keyboardist and one guitarist. DT's solution is to play to a click and pipe the rest in in the background. That's all fine. But I personally also really like the flavor that hearing another live guitarist or two can add by bring in the backing that way. When Eric solos, for example, you aren't faced with having the backing guitar either fade out altogether, be replicated by Jordan on keyboard, or have to be piped in.
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Honestly, I think Finally Free, message wise, makes more sense, if that's what Portnoy truly believes.
Either way, I was blown away by the videos and am absolutely gutted I can't be in NY or ATL to see this in the states.
ATL Atlanta? I have not seen anything about that.
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Honestly, I think Finally Free, message wise, makes more sense, if that's what Portnoy truly believes.
Either way, I was blown away by the videos and am absolutely gutted I can't be in NY or ATL to see this in the states.
ATL Atlanta? I have not seen anything about that.
They're playing the Prog Power Festival in September in Atlanta
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Sounded great and all....but the 'something missing' aspect was that the 'something missing' was JP and JR. You can't replace those two when it comes to playing a DT cover.
I agree overall, and I would add James to that as well. However, that being said, I have also thought MANY times through the years that DT's sound would benefit from having a second guitarist, and I think these clips highlight why. DT songs have so many layers of keyboards and guitars, and there is only so much you can do to replicate that live with only one keyboardist and one guitarist. DT's solution is to play to a click and pipe the rest in in the background. That's all fine. But I personally also really like the flavor that hearing another live guitarist or two can add by bring in the backing that way. When Eric solos, for example, you aren't faced with having the backing guitar either fade out altogether, be replicated by Jordan on keyboard, or have to be piped in.
I agree with both these posts.
That being said, I don't think JP is looping in backing guitars under his solos very often even though they are playing to click. He's doing it in some obvious spots like the intro to TCoT, but as far as solos in songs, I don't think that is something he's doing a lot of. As far as loops, it seems like primarily they are looping vocal-related things, not a ton of instrumentation. TA is the exception to this I guess because of the orchestral stuff being looped. JR can't cover all that live.
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So refreshing to hear DT songs with MP on drums again. It sounds much better than DT lately.
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Honestly, I think Finally Free, message wise, makes more sense, if that's what Portnoy truly believes.
Either way, I was blown away by the videos and am absolutely gutted I can't be in NY or ATL to see this in the states.
ATL Atlanta? I have not seen anything about that.
They're playing the Prog Power Festival in September in Atlanta
Yup, that may have been the first show announcement. It's sold out though. If you want tickets, I suggest heading over to the progpower forum and posting on their ticket thread. That's how I snagged one last year for the sold out event.
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I don't think JP is looping in backing guitars under his solos very often even though they are playing to click. He's doing it in some obvious spots like the intro to TCoT, but as far as solos in songs, I don't think that is something he's doing a lot of. As far as loops, it seems like primarily they are looping vocal-related things, not a ton of instrumentation. TA is the exception to this I guess because of the orchestral stuff being looped. JR can't cover all that live.
I don't know that it is Jordan looping it in. I think it is a static backing track that has extra guitars, backing vocals, orchestration, etc. I think it's something that just runs during the entire song, which is why they play to a click to begin with (other than being able to sync up with video).
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Honestly, I think Finally Free, message wise, makes more sense, if that's what Portnoy truly believes.
Either way, I was blown away by the videos and am absolutely gutted I can't be in NY or ATL to see this in the states.
ATL Atlanta? I have not seen anything about that.
They're playing the Prog Power Festival in September in Atlanta
Yikes, well this is gonna cost me. But after seeing last night's vids, I'll find a way. Thanks!
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It pains me to say, but recent DT performances I've seen online...do not compare favorably to this.
Yea, I love DT and all and enjoy their shows, but I think this kind of hits on the point of what the DT shows have been lacking since MP left, which is that raw live energy.
the energy is certainly there...it's undeniable. A very exciting evening that would have been cool to be at. But, as far as the songs themselves and the playing of them....while they were executed very well IMO it wasn't near the musicianship of DT. Sounded great and all....but the 'something missing' aspect was that the 'something missing' was JP and JR. You can't replace those two when it comes to playing a DT cover.
I agree about JP and JR, even though I really like Diego Tejeida as a keyboard player. Eric, on the other hand, doesn't impress me that much, as he's just basically a JP clone and that's it (talking about his guitar playing, not his voice, which I think is really good), so it doesn't sound "real", if you know what I mean.
About the vocals, I like Ross' voice a lot, and I think he did a great job. He doesn't sound like James, and that's weird to hear, but, tbh, he was more in tune than James usually is on a live show these days, which is, imo, the only thing that DT struggles with on the live shows. I think having DT with another singer in a couple years wouldn't be such a tragedy as some might think.
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I don't think JP is looping in backing guitars under his solos very often even though they are playing to click. He's doing it in some obvious spots like the intro to TCoT, but as far as solos in songs, I don't think that is something he's doing a lot of. As far as loops, it seems like primarily they are looping vocal-related things, not a ton of instrumentation. TA is the exception to this I guess because of the orchestral stuff being looped. JR can't cover all that live.
I don't know that it is Jordan looping it in. I think it is a static backing track that has extra guitars, backing vocals, orchestration, etc. I think it's something that just runs during the entire song, which is why they play to a click to begin with (other than being able to sync up with video).
You might be right, it was hard to tell what exactly was getting looped when I saw TA live in person, and since there's no official DVD of the tour and somewhat limited YouTube footage, it's tough to know for sure.
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The videos from this are pretty enjoyable but I'm not struck on the singer. I'll take James and his sometimes annoying James-isms any day.
I will say though that the crowd kicked the ass of Manchester earlier this year.
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How about this...Sept. 24 in NYC. What are the odds MP is joined by some of his former DT bandmates at Irving Plaza?
MP said he's mended fences with three of the band members. JR, JP, and someone else. I don't know when DT's tour will start, but I am assuming they will rehearse in New York. If so...how cool would it be if one of those guys, or even all three MP was referring to, got up on stage and did a couple songs?
My money would be on Jordan if that did happen. Seems like he and MP, at least publicly, seem to be on good terms.
It could be a double-edged sword though. On one hand, it may give them closure. On the other hand, it would really fan the flames regarding MP's return on the eve (I would assume) of DT doing a tour.
Thoughts?
And given I&W's 25 years, wouldn't it be something if they did something to celebrate that as well with MP at that Shattered Fortress show. I mean, I assume MP is on tour the rest of the year, so if DT does a NYC/LI date, MP may not be around for it.
The possibilities though...if they truly have mended fences between MP and a couple of the guys. It may make for an epic September 24 if the stars align...
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I'm not saying it will happen, as I don't think it will, but if it does Jordan is my biggest bet as he and MP did guest spots at the same Haken show in NYC on their first tour.
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If it happened yes, that would be Jordan... but it won't happen. Even if either Jordan or one of the other guys would feel up to it, just to show up and play a song along with an ex bandmate, it would still be a huge and negative boomerang effect, with people making comparisons, hoping for a reunion and so on and so forth.
I know that babies and marriages analogies are silly, but... even if you no longer have hard feelings for your ex spouse, still going on with a date with said ex it's not the best idea, especially if many of your friends still think that ex spouse that left you was better than the current one anyway.
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Similarly, I think DT management would nix anything from happening.
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Well, management works for the band, not the other way around. They don't really have the power to nix anything.
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Well, management works for the band, not the other way around. They don't really have the power to nix anything.
In the same manner that a producer works for the band, that's not going to keep a (good) producer from telling the band when they shouldn't be doing something.
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That NYC show is between the Asian tour and the Singapore date for DT. I thought about the idea of a DT member being in attendance, but I am wondering if they are going to fill that blank space with maybe Australia dates or something. If not, then they might be home in the NYC area making it possible. Just pretty rough to come back from asia for two weeks and then go to Singapore when they could be touring other markets closer to that side of the world. We shall see. My guess is they will not be there.
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"As for those other two songs, I'm not going to perform those either because they both bring back very heavy emotions to me. 'The Best Of Times' is something that I wrote for my father and played it for him on his deathbed while we held hands and both cried. After he passed away, a few days later, I played it again at his funeral and to be honest, I've not listened to it again since then. It just breaks my heart and it's so difficult for me to hear that song now.
Weird! Does that mean he didn't listen to is when BC&SL was being mixed and mastered?
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Well, management works for the band, not the other way around. They don't really have the power to nix anything.
In the same manner that a producer works for the band, that's not going to keep a (good) producer from telling the band when they shouldn't be doing something.
I don't personally think it's likely. But management can say whatever they want, if one of those guys wants to go hang with an ex-bandmate and go play a tune or two, there's nothing that can be done stop that. Producers can say whatever they want too -- they aren't always right.
Besides, it's not going to happen. But fun speculation for sure. For those going to NYC, I certainly hope that show is tops of the tour. Fans in my hometown that were there from the beginning (and everyone, really) deserve that at DT's home base. But it'd be really refreshing to see some healing even with a small thing like sharing the stage.
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I don't think we will see a DT member participate in this because, well they are in DT, and honestly that would start to blur some lines and probably make MM very uncomfortable.
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I don't think we will see a DT member participate in this because, well they are in DT, and honestly that would start to blur some lines and probably make MM very uncomfortable.
Personally, I don't think them participating would blur any lines. It's clear they are sticking with MM and participating in this would only be in support of MP and their history together. To me, it wouldn't signal anything with regards to current DT.
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I think it would blur more lines if MP joined DT for songs, as opposed to a couple guys from DT joining MP for his side project.
Having MP guest with DT gives it a bigger audience, and would send a bigger statement, in my opinion. Which is why I don't think you'd ever see that. But Jordan or JP stepping up to play Metropolis or something, or A Change of Seasons with Shattered Fortress as a salute to the past? Totally could see it.
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I don't think we will see a DT member participate in this because, well they are in DT, and honestly that would start to blur some lines and probably make MM very uncomfortable.
Personally, I don't think them participating would blur any lines. It's clear they are sticking with MM and participating in this would only be in support of MP and their history together. To me, it wouldn't signal anything with regards to current DT.
Really? You don't think a current member or members of DT performing DT songs with MP would start to blur lines or make MM uncomfortable in any way? Huh, I'd guess it would, but that's just me.
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I think it would blur more lines if MP joined DT for songs, as opposed to a couple guys from DT joining MP for his side project.
Having MP guest with DT gives it a bigger audience, and would send a bigger statement, in my opinion. Which is why I don't think you'd ever see that. But Jordan or JP stepping up to play Metropolis or something, or A Change of Seasons with Shattered Fortress as a salute to the past? Totally could see it.
Agreed. And I don't think it would likely make Mangini uncomfortable at all (although I could see the reverse making him uncomfortable).
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Yea, I mean, like Samsara said, he isn't joining DT on stage, DT is joining him on stage in this scenario. I think that makes a difference. Plus DT has been pretty clear (or should I say MP has been pretty clear about DT's stance) about MM being the guy and MP is not coming back. So my thought is it would just be a fun thing for the fans to celebrate the history of DT and it wouldn't really be a statement about the current or future status of DT. It doesn't seem like JP/JR/JM playing with MP would change the fact that one other DT member still doesnt get along with him.
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One of the best parts about this footage (aside from Mike on the kit) is that the vocalist is singing the songs pretty powerfully and in tune. That's...apparently not something you get when you see Dream Theater live these days judging from the videos of this year's shows.
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Bah. It's only the poor quality YouTube footage that makes it sound like he's singing in tune ;)
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So refreshing to hear DT songs with MP on drums again. It sounds much better than DT lately.
I may not miss MP in DT but I do miss MP's drumming and drum sound a lot on the current DT.
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As someone who has seen both DT and Mike this year I can definitely say MP and the guys felt and sounded more DT which is kinda depressing
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Bah. It's only the poor quality YouTube footage that makes it sound like he's singing in tune ;)
Yeah except JLB doesn't sound in tune even on Youtube.
It's a shame really, he sounded pretty good at the show I attended, but apparently he's been getting worse ever since.
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The mirror
https://youtu.be/XeI3ZZ0dhos
Eric nailing the lie solo and Ross and Eric's vocals here are amazing
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Holy shit when I was at the Merch stand I was thinking I recognised the 2 girls from somewhere... Just read it was only portnoy's wife and daughter!!
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Man, Ross sounds amazing on all of these. I kinda want Mike to make this a regular project now. :lol
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After seeing these videos, I'd be much more likely to go see this project than to see Dream Theater. And I don't even really like the 12-Step Suite.
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Man, Ross sounds amazing on all of these. I kinda want Mike to make this a regular project now. :lol
Nah. That would mean less Haken and Neal Morse Band. That would be no bueno.
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I guess I'm the only one with no interest in a Dream Theater cover band playing with Portnoy. I will say, though, that I highly doubt this will be a successful way for Portnoy to put DT behind him. I think he'll end up realizing DT was the best band he'll ever be with and miss it more after playing it again then moving on.
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I think he'll end up realizing DT was the best band he'll ever be with
I think he already realizes that tbh.
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I think he'll end up realizing DT was the best band he'll ever be with
I think he already realizes that tbh.
Yeah, I guess I meant that this little run likely won't quench the thirst for him, it'll make him miss it more. Just a guess, of course, I have no actual idea.
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People judging and making up their minds based on youtube vids, so what's new?.. ;D
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Bah. It's only the poor quality YouTube footage that makes it sound like he's singing in tune ;)
Yeah except JLB doesn't sound in tune even on Youtube.
Yeah, I know - hence the irony of my post. It's a little wink to those who always blame a YouTube recording for James sounding like he's having a rough time.
But don't get me wrong: James is the voice of DT and I'd prefer to hear him singing DT songs. (In tune.)
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I guess I'm the only one with no interest in a Dream Theater cover band playing with Portnoy. I will say, though, that I highly doubt this will be a successful way for Portnoy to put DT behind him. I think he'll end up realizing DT was the best band he'll ever be with and miss it more after playing it again then moving on.
Maybe, but check out the new official Winery Dogs live video. That's a band that's certainly got things going for them.
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Wish there were some dates in the Pacific North West!
Amen. Or just plain WEST. Alaska Air is cheap!
Yeah, I would surely do LA or Portland or Seattle for this one.
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I guess I'm the only one with no interest in a Dream Theater cover band playing with Portnoy. I will say, though, that I highly doubt this will be a successful way for Portnoy to put DT behind him. I think he'll end up realizing DT was the best band he'll ever be with and miss it more after playing it again then moving on.
Nope you aren't the only one.
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I guess I'm the only one with no interest in a Dream Theater cover band playing with Portnoy. I will say, though, that I highly doubt this will be a successful way for Portnoy to put DT behind him. I think he'll end up realizing DT was the best band he'll ever be with and miss it more after playing it again then moving on.
Nope you aren't the only one.
I'll third that.
Also, I've seen DT 11 or 12 times since 2003, and JLB has gotten better with every single tour. Still don't understand the flack he gets.
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So many of you are little bitches about MPs comments. I don't agree with him about ACOS at all, but see where he's coming from. Damn yall. It's fine.
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I guess I'm the only one with no interest in a Dream Theater cover band playing with Portnoy. I will say, though, that I highly doubt this will be a successful way for Portnoy to put DT behind him. I think he'll end up realizing DT was the best band he'll ever be with and miss it more after playing it again then moving on.
Nope you aren't the only one.
I'll third that.
Also, I've seen DT 11 or 12 times since 2003, and JLB has gotten better with every single tour. Still don't understand the flack he gets.
Yeah, James has been great the last couple tours especially. I guess for me the videos I've seen of this performance don't make me want to go out of my way to see MP play DT songs with these guys, or make me some how prefer these random musicians covering DT songs to the actual band, but it does make me miss MP being a part of DT. The energy and vibe he brings to the songs, his presence, that I miss.
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I guess I'm the only one with no interest in a Dream Theater cover band playing with Portnoy. I will say, though, that I highly doubt this will be a successful way for Portnoy to put DT behind him. I think he'll end up realizing DT was the best band he'll ever be with and miss it more after playing it again then moving on.
Nope you aren't the only one.
I'm in this group as well. Aside from the 'energy' that everyone is smitten with.....if you listen to the actual music being played it's just a pretty good cover version of the songs. And that goes for MP as well. Even when he was in DT I hazed his performances because he takes a lot of 'holidays' on songs...especially in the double bass pedal aspect....where he doesn't play them as they are recorded.
I know it's part of MP's flare to give a raw performance and not go note for note....but me personally....I like the recorded versions of DT's songs and that's the very impressive thing about MM....just when you think there's no way he could pull off what he has recorded he nails it live perfectly.
This show/these shows are neat and and will sound good....but for me there is no comparison between the cover band MP put together and Dream Theater. Dream Theater far exceeds.....
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I guess I'm the only one with no interest in a Dream Theater cover band playing with Portnoy. I will say, though, that I highly doubt this will be a successful way for Portnoy to put DT behind him. I think he'll end up realizing DT was the best band he'll ever be with and miss it more after playing it again then moving on.
Nope you aren't the only one.
I'm in this group as well. Aside from the 'energy' that everyone is smitten with.....if you listen to the actual music being played it's just a pretty good cover version of the songs. And that goes for MP as well. Even when he was in DT I hazed his performances because he takes a lot of 'holidays' on songs...especially in the double bass pedal aspect....where he doesn't play them as they are recorded.
I know it's part of MP's flare to give a raw performance and not go note for note....but me personally....I like the recorded versions of DT's songs and that's the very impressive thing about MM....just when you think there's no way he could pull off what he has recorded he nails it live perfectly.
This show/these shows are neat and and will sound good....but for me there is no comparison between the cover band MP put together and Dream Theater. Dream Theater far exceeds.....
Good to see I'm not the only one. I'm not trying to be a hater, but if I watch a Youtube of this vs. a Youtube of DT doing ACoS on this tour, it's the actual DT that transfixes me. The cover band is fine but I don't really watch long because that's what it is - a cover band.
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So many of you are little bitches about MPs comments. I don't agree with him about ACOS at all, but see where he's coming from. Damn yall. It's fine.
And you should know by now that personal attacks are not permitted here. Knock that off.
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I guess I'm the only one with no interest in a Dream Theater cover band playing with Portnoy. I will say, though, that I highly doubt this will be a successful way for Portnoy to put DT behind him. I think he'll end up realizing DT was the best band he'll ever be with and miss it more after playing it again then moving on.
Nope you aren't the only one.
I'll third that.
I'll fourth it.
But since we are talking about MP's band instead of a cover band, I'll stick to that topic instead and say that I'm glad he is not only doing it, but also doing the songs justice. Despite that he is becoming almost intolerable to listen to because of the things he apparently can't help himself from saying and doing, I would probably see this if it came here.
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Home
https://youtu.be/anfWK68gEDU
Ah this brings back the feels
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Here is a part of the merch stand. I love the black tshirt with all the logos!!!
(https://scontent-cdg2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/19510587_2024590074436434_8832728154508211690_n.jpg?oh=3f77ccc9881d9ef612dc1ca087b9d671&oe=59C3DDD9)
(https://scontent-cdg2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/19575029_2024590071103101_283526996285846725_o.jpg?oh=f42420ae51c07c4f5ace42ee73ac0695&oe=59D69DB8)
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What is the logo on the yellow one? I can't figure out what it is supposed to be. I mean, it looks like bats and an infinity symbol, but I don't know what that is from or what it relates to.
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What is the logo on the yellow one? I can't figure out what it is supposed to be. I mean, it looks like bats and an infinity symbol, but I don't know what that is from or what it relates to.
Actually looks like the Devin Townsend Project logo:
(https://ih0.redbubble.net/image.53393255.3708/flat,800x800,075,f.u1.jpg)
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It definitely is....wtf is that doing there?
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Yea, that's weird to see. It clearly says something on the back. Wonder what it is.
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This is the shirt, but the back is different. The one at the merch table looks like it says "BAND"
https://www.jsrdirect.com/bands/devintownsendproject/logo-bats-t-shirt
EDIT: Actually it probably says TRANSCENDENCE, the title of the latest DTP album.
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It's a festival so it'll be a general Merch stand for all bands there
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Ooooooh I thought that pic was from the first show in London. :facepalm:
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Actually looks like the Devin Townsend Project logo
Oh, that's why I didn't recognize it.
Ooooooh I thought that pic was from the first show in London. :facepalm:
So did I.
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I guess I'm the only one with no interest in a Dream Theater cover band playing with Portnoy. I will say, though, that I highly doubt this will be a successful way for Portnoy to put DT behind him. I think he'll end up realizing DT was the best band he'll ever be with and miss it more after playing it again then moving on.
Nope you aren't the only one.
I'll third that.
I'll fourth it.
But since we are talking about MP's band instead of a cover band, I'll stick to that topic instead and say that I'm glad he is not only doing it, but also doing the songs justice. Despite that he is becoming almost intolerable to listen to because of the things he apparently can't help himself from saying and doing, I would probably see this if it came here.
Don't get me wrong, I'm with you, especially the bolded. It sounds good, the guys are definitely doing the songs right. If this was coming near me, I'd probably go, I just don't view MP+a bunch of other guys playing DT as something I'd prefer to see over DT themselves.
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Oh, absolutely. But I don't view it as an "instead of" because it isn't. It's an "in addition to," and I think we can/should just be able to enjoy both for what they are. Bottom line is, this tour is a good idea because (1) DT isn't gong to play those songs, at least not all together in this arrangement, and (2) there is still a sizeable group of people that want to see/hear Mike Portnoy playing DT songs. So as was the case when he was still in the band, he finds a way to deliver something fans want. I think that's really cool (despite the growing glaringness of those other traits he has that make him so offputting) something I can take at face value and not try to put too much baggage on it.
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Haken feat. Portnoy and Gillette on in about 10 minutes. Will not be updating, just watching the show. Greetings from Barcelona, Spain.
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I guess I'm the only one with no interest in a Dream Theater cover band playing with Portnoy. I will say, though, that I highly doubt this will be a successful way for Portnoy to put DT behind him. I think he'll end up realizing DT was the best band he'll ever be with and miss it more after playing it again then moving on.
Nope you aren't the only one.
I'll third that.
I'll fourth it.
But since we are talking about MP's band instead of a cover band, I'll stick to that topic instead and say that I'm glad he is not only doing it, but also doing the songs justice. Despite that he is becoming almost intolerable to listen to because of the things he apparently can't help himself from saying and doing, I would probably see this if it came here.
I'll fifth it.
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no interest in a Dream Theater cover band
we are talking about MP's band instead of a cover band
Thanks for saying that. it almost comes off purposely marginalizing to refer to it as a DT cover band.
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Haken feat. Portnoy and Gillette on in about 10 minutes. Will not be updating, just watching the show. Greetings from Barcelona, Spain.
Enjoy :metal
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I can enjoy both and don't have to judge who is better because both are good and that's enough for me.
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I guess I'm the only one with no interest in a Dream Theater cover band playing with Portnoy. I will say, though, that I highly doubt this will be a successful way for Portnoy to put DT behind him. I think he'll end up realizing DT was the best band he'll ever be with and miss it more after playing it again then moving on.
Nope you aren't the only one.
I'll third that.
I'll fourth it.
But since we are talking about MP's band instead of a cover band, I'll stick to that topic instead and say that I'm glad he is not only doing it, but also doing the songs justice. Despite that he is becoming almost intolerable to listen to because of the things he apparently can't help himself from saying and doing, I would probably see this if it came here.
I'll fifth it.
Count me in.
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Its a pretty good performance. But it's still no DT. If it was coming closer to me or maybe Denver I'd see it.
Overall it looks like a fun show.
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Seen DT twice last year and twice this year. Fantstic shows all of them.
Seen Mike once this year (with Neal Morse Band ) and it was a gret show.
Will see Mike on sunday with Shattered Fortress.... really looking forwrd to it.
For this fan at lest this is a great time to be a DT and Mike Portnoy fan!
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Seen DT twice last year and twice this year. Fantstic shows all of them.
Seen Mike once this year (with Neal Morse Band ) and it was a gret show.
Will see Mike on sunday with Shattered Fortress.... really looking forwrd to it.
For this fan at lest this is a great time to be a DT and Mike Portnoy fan!
Yes, good point. I may have no interest in seeing MP without DT but there are many who do, so this is a very good time.
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Seems like it was the same set tonight minus Home. That makes sense since they're not headlining. Marillion are.
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For this fan at lest this is a great time to be a DT and Mike Portnoy fan!
Agreed.
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Seen DT twice last year and twice this year. Fantstic shows all of them.
Seen Mike once this year (with Neal Morse Band ) and it was a gret show.
Will see Mike on sunday with Shattered Fortress.... really looking forwrd to it.
For this fan at lest this is a great time to be a DT and Mike Portnoy fan!
Yes, good point. I may have no interest in seeing MP without DT but there are many who do, so this is a very good time.
Also I am sure he will play some DT songs when he plays live with his new prog metal band with Sherinian. He wants to leave DT in the past but he will do it as a "favor for the fans" :)
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Also, I've seen DT 11 or 12 times since 2003, and JLB has gotten better with every single tour. Still don't understand the flack he gets.
JLB, from the clips I have seen, is struggling badly on the current tour, which shouldn't be a surprise since the I&W songs were tough to sing live 25 years ago. And he is no spring chicken now. He has always tried to do too much live, and rock singers who sing in the style that he does rarely age well.
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Seen DT twice last year and twice this year. Fantstic shows all of them.
Seen Mike once this year (with Neal Morse Band ) and it was a gret show.
Will see Mike on sunday with Shattered Fortress.... really looking forwrd to it.
For this fan at lest this is a great time to be a DT and Mike Portnoy fan!
Fucking this man, enjoy what we can get while we can get it, this shit ain't gonna last forever, and the day will come when we'll only have memories.
May not get to a show, but I got a buddy at PPUSA who will hook up a shirt for me, it'll be a good addition to the collection.
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The flack JLB gets is bullshit. Yeah, he struggles at times. But go ahead, trot out another age 50+ operatic singer capable of doing I&W and ACOS night after night, and do it perfectly. You won't find any. Bottom line -- it's a really difficult record to sing. And as DT fans, I feel that personally, we should be thankful that they are doing this, as DT likely won't ever play I&W again because of how tough it is for JLB to perform.
So big thanks to Labrie for taking care of his voice and slugging it out night after night to give us such a cool treat. I'm not the only DT fan that has I&W as one of his all time favorite albums. And this is something special. JLB sounds fine. Some nights better than others. But that's singing.
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To go back to the real topic of the thread, yesterday I had one of the best gigs in my life. What a great audience in Paris, singing, jumping, smiling. I wasn't really glad when I saw the setlist as I wanted a few extras like New Millenium, Raise the Knife...but the setlist makes sense : Overture 1928/SDV are the best openers in DT's history and finishing the set with Finally Free sends a strong message.
The band was on fire and Mike seemed to have fun. The sound was aweful but it didn't matter. You must attend the shows if you can.
The icing on the cake : thanks to the former Presidents of the French fan club, I got my picture signed and some news: Mike will announce the full line up of his super group next month (one guitar player, one singer and one bass player to be announced) and he will tour with that band next year!!
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The sound was aweful but it didn't matter.
I'm (not really) sorry, but a bad sound ruins everything for me...
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Well it got better during the 12 Step Suite but too much bass and drums. Well I was near the front row so if I really wanted to get a good mix, I should have moved near the table.
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I dig how Mike has Eric pulling vocal duties as well. There's a cool slight contrast between Ross and Eric.
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Oh my god!!!!
What an amazing concert I have just witnessed. Shattered Fortress live at Slagthuset in Malmö.
Was standing in the first row (seated theater) just in front of the amazing Eric Gillette.
Fantastic setlist, fantastic musicians... just wow!!!!
Thank you Mike......
Made even more special by Mike handing me and my friend his drumsticks a few songs in because me and my friend rocked out standing while everyone else sat. They got standing after that....
If in doubt and you have the possobility to go... just do it. It will be one of the best concerts you have seen...
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Made even more special by Mike handing me and my friend his drumsticks a few songs in because me and my friend rocked out standing while everyone else sat. They got standing after that....
That's awesome. Love that type of interaction with the crowd :metal :metal
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This thread is about The Shattered Fortress, not James LaBrie. Keep it on topic.
And it should go without saying that some of the off-topic posts about James were way over the line. Offenders have been warned.
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Well it got better during the 12 Step Suite but too much bass and drums. Well I was near the front row so if I really wanted to get a good mix, I should have moved near the table.
I'm sorry you had that, the Mix seemed to be ok at the London Gig but we had a couple of other technical faults but only minor. Its normal the start of a new tour.
I agree on Eric's vocals, I was surprised i had no idea how good a singer he was and it worked great going against Ross' vocals.
What I also loved is how much the band are enjoying these gigs, Richard Henshall and Diego especially look like kids in a candy shop.
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Took some photos yesterday on the amazing Shattered Fortress event....
The band travelled for 16 hours after the show in Paris and the crew had to set up the stage in record time.. one hour. Still the concert was about an hour late... but when you wait for something like this..
Huge thanks to Mike, the band and the crew for giving their all to deliver this to Scandinavia.Forfeiting their day of and instead spending the night and the day on the bus.
You should hopefully be able to see these
https://m.facebook.com/martin.sandberg.334/albums/1091381544331246/?ref=bookmarks (https://You should hopefully be able to see these
https://m.facebook.com/martin.sandberg.334/albums/1091381544331246/?ref=bookmarks)
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What I love about the Setlist is the opening of Regression with the count down all of Mike's best Drum moments are played, from a fortune in lies, 6:00, Honor thy father as if the narrator is telling Mike to go back and remember his past life in DT and then ending with Finally Free to round it all off to say you're now free from this music. Its Poetic!
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Saw this at Be Prog! My Friend (just got home). It was quite fun!
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Saw this at Be Prog! My Friend (just got home). It was quite fun!
Glad you had fun, its a shame you guys had one of the best songs cut due to time restrictions.
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What I love about the Setlist is the opening of Regression with the count down all of Mike's best Drum moments are played, from a fortune in lies, 6:00, Honor thy father as if the narrator is telling Mike to go back and remember his past life in DT and then ending with Finally Free to round it all off to say you're now free from this music. Its Poetic!
Yup, as I said before its Mikes way of finally letting go. We all know its been bothering him since he left, and this is good therapy for him.
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Yeah, maybe.. :|
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So is Terry Brown going to sue MP for the use of the SFAM intro? :biggrin:
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I really hope someone creates a good bootleg for this tour since there wont be an official release
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What I love about the Setlist is the opening of Regression with the count down all of Mike's best Drum moments are played, from a fortune in lies, 6:00, Honor thy father as if the narrator is telling Mike to go back and remember his past life in DT and then ending with Finally Free to round it all off to say you're now free from this music. Its Poetic!
Such a great touch from MP for this tour :tup :tup :tup
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Yup, as I said before its Mikes way of finally letting go. We all know its been bothering him since he left, and this is good therapy for him.
I think it's likely to have the opposite effect. Playing those songs again will remind him how much he loved the music Dream Theater created and he will miss being in the band even more than he did already, which is perfectly understandable.
So is Terry Brown going to sue MP for the use of the SFAM intro? :biggrin:
Using the Terry Brown Scenes intro probably eliminates any chance of any of these shows being recorded and released on DVD or Blu-ray (which I suspect was out of the question already because of the DT factor, let alone the Terry Brown one).
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Richard Henshall said a while ago that Haken is going to start working on a new album soon, for a 2018 release, so I was wondering, since 5/6 members of Haken are currently touring with MP, playing DT material exclusively, will this inspire them to write a more DT oriented album for Haken? What do you, guys, think?
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I want to see MP featured in the new album like he was on Restorations... but on something ridiculous like a single cowbell hit...
And on topic:
I so wish this was coming to LA :(
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Richard Henshall said a while ago that Haken is going to start working on a new album soon, for a 2018 release, so I was wondering, since 5/6 members of Haken are currently touring with MP, playing DT material exclusively, will this inspire them to write a more DT oriented album for Haken? What do you, guys, think?
I might actually enjoy their music.
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Richard Henshall said a while ago that Haken is going to start working on a new album soon, for a 2018 release, so I was wondering, since 5/6 members of Haken are currently touring with MP, playing DT material exclusively, will this inspire them to write a more DT oriented album for Haken? What do you, guys, think?
I think they already write very much in that vein and were DT fans to start with, so I don't see it having a significant impact at all.
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Richard Henshall said a while ago that Haken is going to start working on a new album soon, for a 2018 release, so I was wondering, since 5/6 members of Haken are currently touring with MP, playing DT material exclusively, will this inspire them to write a more DT oriented album for Haken? What do you, guys, think?
I think they already write very much in that vein and were DT fans to start with, so I don't see it having a significant impact at all.
The first two albums maybe, but The Mountain and Affinity are nothing like DT's music imo.
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They're heavy and technical like DT, but they seem to be influenced by bands like King Crimson and Gentle Giant more than the prog groups that influenced DT like Yes and Rush.
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Paraphrasing, but it's on there...
FB Commentor : Why isn't this tour coming to Canada. Does MP hate Canadiens?
MP: Only one.
:-[
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I like how all the Portnoy fans in the comments find it incredibly witty.
I'm a fan of Portnoy and all, but that's pretty low. (if it is what it is, always a tiny chance it could be a lame Bieber joke)
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I like how all the Portnoy fans in the comments find it incredibly witty.
I'm a fan of Portnoy and all, but that's pretty low. (if it is what it is, always a tiny chance it could be a lame Bieber joke)
For as bad as he is with Putting his foot in his mouth and being less than cordial on social media....i can't believe he's actually say that.
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He most definitely did.
https://www.facebook.com/mikeportnoyofficial/posts/1788293884521579?comment_id=1788330767851224&reply_comment_id=1788342034516764&comment_tracking=%7B%22tn%22%3A%22R9%22%7D
(https://i.imgur.com/r7eMcNL.png)
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Guy Lafluer?
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So childish.
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Just below that is this comment:
As I've now said a million times already...there is no guarantee I can/will release a DVD of this...
I cannot handle anymore drama with the DT camp.
Get yourself on a plane and catch one of these shows!!
If you are a DT fan, you deserve to witness this
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So do you guys think the only Canadian MP hates is the guy who wrote the post he responded to, or a certain singer from a well known prog metal band?
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Not sure what he has against Rik Emmett.
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Come on, Celine Dion ain't that bad.
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I mean it could be any Canadian that looks despisable (Biebs, Celine Dion, Chad Kroeger, etc.). Heck, for all we know, it could be a member of Rush......
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He most definitely did.
https://www.facebook.com/mikeportnoyofficial/posts/1788293884521579?comment_id=1788330767851224&reply_comment_id=1788342034516764&comment_tracking=%7B%22tn%22%3A%22R9%22%7D
(https://i.imgur.com/r7eMcNL.png)
Oh wow, that's completely ridiculous. wtf
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Paraphrasing, but it's on there...
FB Commentor : Why isn't this tour coming to Canada. Does MP hate Canadiens?
MP: Only one.
:facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm:
JFC, man, just when you think MP can't top himself.
Just below that is this comment:
As I've now said a million times already...there is no guarantee I can/will release a DVD of this...
I cannot handle anymore drama with the DT camp.
Get yourself on a plane and catch one of these shows!!
If you are a DT fan, you deserve to witness this
:facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm:
The guy is seriously out of it at this point. How can anyone be so delusional and believe their own BS so hard. What's that? You say you don't hold grudges? The DT guys being adults and professional since you left while you can't stop trashing them at every opportunity doesn't make YOU the cause of any drama? All the drama is from MP and the fact that DT don't respond to it just makes MP create even more drama.
Step 1) Create drama.
Step 2) Perpetuate drama.
Step 3)
Step 4) No profit, just double-down on drama.
Now we wait for the "I'm just being honest" defense.
You absolutely cannot write this stuff.
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Love the drummer and the entertainer called Mike Portnoy but the social media person called the same makes me cringe sometimes....
Why does he never learn to hold his thought... maybe he just like trump would benefit from having someone to give an OK to any post he makes
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Just for comparison: Eluveitie, a folk metal band, went through an extreme line-up change recently. Band members left through the years, but last year the band leader wanted the drummer gone, and so the other longtime members (guitar player and female vocalist / hurdy gurdy player), all close friends, decided to leave as well, and they formed a new band together, Cellar Darling.
Yesterday Eluveitie posted an update about their new album, and someone replied "Hey, planning on firing any more members? in case we get to hear more music, Cellar Darling has a new album and it's great" (something like that).
The band (Surely the band leader actually, the main force of the band) replied something like: "Not anytime soon. And yes, we've heard their album and we love it".
Such a provoking reply, and such a classy and witty answer. That's how you should always handle drama on social media.
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Just for comparison: Eluveitie, a folk metal band, went through an extreme line-up change recently. Band members left through the years, but last year the band leader wanted the drummer gone, and so the other longtime members (guitar player and female vocalist / hurdy gurdy player), all close friends, decided to leave as well, and they formed a new band together, Cellar Darling.
Yesterday Eluveitie posted an update about their new album, and someone replied "Hey, planning on firing any more members? in case we get to hear more music, Cellar Darling has a new album and it's great" (something like that).
The band (Surely the band leader actually, the main force of the band) replied something like: "Not anytime soon. And yes, we've heard their album and we love it".
Such a provoking reply, and such a classy and witty answer. That's how you should always handle drama on social media.
There shouldn't have been drama in the first place. MP left, so you would think it could have been all clear. But, no, he himself starts the drama. And seven years later, he adds fuel to the fire with such childish comment! The guy never learns anything, so much so that it's painful.
B.Lee
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That's a great reply to a troll there MirrorMask... if only MP had that in him.
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There are people that still expect MP to take the high road? C'mon, guys. I'm as big an MP fan as any, but even I've learned to just accept the music and compartmentalize the buffoonery.
And I can see why MP and James don't have the best relatoinship. It seems like, from the documentaries we have, that MP was always keeping a close eye on James in the studio and live, and even tried to replace him after SDOIT. When MP left, I remember distinctly feeling like James sounding like he couldn't be happier, with a tone in his voice like he had finally gotten his way. I wouldn't be surprised if the relationship with JLB is considerably worse than the one with JP, JR, and JM.
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Come on, Celine Dion ain't that bad.
She doesn't even drive a fork truck. Go figure.
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I love MP as an entertainer probably more than any of the other DT guys, but his social media antics sure are something... I mean, it is sad that there is obviously some bad blood and fustrations, but one should never take that to social media. That said, at this point this should be no surprise to anyone.
Also, I have watched some yt vids and these seem like awesome concerts. I think there is merit to this band and I do hope we will get an official release out of it, as unlikely as that may be.
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The quality of the show definitely merits an official release....
Too many legal hurdles to jump over though....
Anyone who has a chance should really do anything to be there.
Something like this will never happen again.
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Haha oh MP. :lol
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The quality of the show definitely merits an official release
Really? It would be rather boring to watch I think. I found it to be okay at best, with almost every other show at Be Prog! My Friend to be more enjoyable than the Shattered Fortress.
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The quality of the show definitely merits an official release....
Too many legal hurdles to jump over though....
Anyone who has a chance should really do anything to be there.
Something like this will never happen again.
MP is that you?
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Too many legal hurdles to jump over though....
He keeps saying that, but I'm still not sure why? He released DT music with PSMS and Flying Colours, why should it now be different? He probably has to ask, but I can't imagine DT saying no. But maybe I'm just too naive?
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A post I made in the supergroup thread back in March is worth quoting here now:
Let's sum him up:
-Loves social media.
-Gets overly defensive about any criticism or perceived slight.
-His hardcore fans are apologetic to the point of being almost scary.
-Loves to talk and say anything under the guise of "telling it like it is" and/or "setting the facts straight."
Wait, are we talking about Mike Portnoy or Donald Trump?
:eek :eek :eek
:lol :lol
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At least one of them is good at their day job :biggrin:
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Kev will get this.
MM is like David Price and the Media.
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Maybe James threatened to leave if the band colaberated with MP in any way.
If he really is referring to James, I don't see why Mike is the one hating when he did all the shit talking.
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Tonight he's gonna play here in Milan, not gonna attend because I had my fair share of DT shows with him and I didn't consider this essential, but those YouTube clips gave me a little of doubt about it, damn :D
Ironically he's gonna play in a small venue, actually a seated theatre, which sits right next to the big sporting venue where he always played with DT. I hope he won't mind that, he praised the Milan crowd as one of the best when he toured with DT and I'm glad to say I often contributed in giving this impression!
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Too many legal hurdles to jump over though....
He keeps saying that, but I'm still not sure why? He released DT music with PSMS and Flying Colours, why should it now be different? He probably has to ask, but I can't imagine DT saying no. But maybe I'm just too naive?
We obviously have no clue what kind of terms were decided upon when MP left DT, but clearly he did not maintain the right to perform, record, and sell DT music (which makes perfect sense) or else he'd be doing it. If I had to guess, I'd say he did it with PSMS and FC because DT would only see a small amount for copies sold as the DT music made up a small portion of the set. In this case, it's all DT music so I'd imagine DT would stand to make more money if MP recorded and chose to sell per unit, probably making it not worthwhile financially for MP to do so.
When he says legal hurdles he probably is referring to trying to get DT to agree to some sort of different arrangement, which they probably wouldn't because when MP left, all that was ironed out and they probably would just like to leave it all as it stands.
Like I said, we clearly don't know but that's my guess.
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Just got tickets for this. Based on the YouTube videos I saw and the setlist, this is going to be one hell of a show. I loved DT show on AFTR tour, and I'm looking forward to see a slightly different take on these songs now.
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Paraphrasing, but it's on there...
FB Commentor : Why isn't this tour coming to Canada. Does MP hate Canadiens?
MP: Only one.
:facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm:
JFC, man, just when you think MP can't top himself.
Just below that is this comment:
As I've now said a million times already...there is no guarantee I can/will release a DVD of this...
I cannot handle anymore drama with the DT camp.
Get yourself on a plane and catch one of these shows!!
If you are a DT fan, you deserve to witness this
:facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm:
The guy is seriously out of it at this point. How can anyone be so delusional and believe their own BS so hard. What's that? You say you don't hold grudges? The DT guys being adults and professional since you left while you can't stop trashing them at every opportunity doesn't make YOU the cause of any drama? All the drama is from MP and the fact that DT don't respond to it just makes MP create even more drama.
Step 1) Create drama.
Step 2) Perpetuate drama.
Step 3)
Step 4) No profit, just double-down on drama.
Now we wait for the "I'm just being honest" defense.
You absolutely cannot write this stuff.
Maybe he needs to revisit some of the later steps - he's got a reminder every night of the tour.
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Too many legal hurdles to jump over though....
He keeps saying that, but I'm still not sure why? He released DT music with PSMS and Flying Colours, why should it now be different? He probably has to ask, but I can't imagine DT saying no. But maybe I'm just too naive?
I'm sure he could. But as said, the show being hugely DT covers plus with a founding member makes it harder to release. Especially with how much tension their seems to be.
Although, I wouldn't mind just the 12 Step Suite.
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DT releases music that MP co-wrote, so I'm pretty sure the agreement goes both ways. I obviously don't know it but I can't believe that MP would sign a contract that forbade him to release music which he helped create.
So it may be, that the effort is not worth the outcome, but I still don't believe that legal trouble is the main reason.
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DT releases music that MP co-wrote, so I'm pretty sure the agreement goes both ways. I obviously don't know it but I can't believe that MP would sign a contract that forbade him to release music which he helped create.
So it may be, that the effort is not worth the outcome, but I still don't believe that legal trouble is the main reason.
It's not about who wrote it, it's about who owns the rights. Best I can tell, DT own all the rights.
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DT releases music that MP co-wrote, so I'm pretty sure the agreement goes both ways. I obviously don't know it but I can't believe that MP would sign a contract that forbade him to release music which he helped create.
So it may be, that the effort is not worth the outcome, but I still don't believe that legal trouble is the main reason.
It's not about who wrote it, it's about who owns the rights. Best I can tell, DT own all the rights.
Exactly.
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At this point I think Mike should just go full heel and start cutting anti-Dream Theater wrestling-style promos at these tour dates.
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Either way, I feel this is something you have to witness live. A DVD and CD won't capture the energy and overall atmosphere of being at that show, from the moment you walk in to the moment you leave.
The only reason I'm interested is hearing DT songs being sung by a different singer.
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Maybe he needs to revisit some of the later steps - he's got a reminder every night of the tour.
Yep. Whatever happened to "kindness - it's not that hard", "self-restraint of tongue and pen" and "willingness to understand?"
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At least there's fan footage of this tour, unlike TA. I'd totally buy a nice blu ray, but if we can't get that, at least there will be tons of really solid youtube videos documenting the entire tour. :metal
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Maybe he needs to revisit some of the later steps - he's got a reminder every night of the tour.
Yep. Whatever happened to "kindness - it's not that hard", "self-restraint of tongue and pen" and "willingness to understand?"
"Hypocrite - how could you be so cruel?"
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Why all the passive aggressive negativity? Who cares about remarks posted by X or Y on social media about situation Z? :chill
Let the music and the performance speak for itself!
Go enjoy the show. It is absolutely fantastic. I have been at the concerts in London and Malmö and can testify that the experience is very special and extraordinary. At both concerts, people have been singing and dancing from the beginning to the end. :heart :heart
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Why all the passive aggressive negativity? Who cares about remarks posted by X or Y on social media about situation Z? :chill
Let the music and the performance speak for itself!
Go enjoy the show. It is absolutely fantastic. I have been at the concerts in London and Malmö and can testify that the experience is very special and extraordinary. At both concerts, people have been singing and dancing from the beginning to the end. :heart :heart
THIS!! :metal
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Why all the passive aggressive negativity? Who cares about remarks posted by X or Y on social media about situation Z? :chill
No-one here is being passive aggressive. They're being very open about the fact that Portnoy is being a childish ass; in fact Portnoy is the one being passive aggressive.
It's great that everyone is enjoying the shows. Seriously, I'm happy to hear that. But Portnoy still has issues that he won't be Finally Free from after these shows.
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Why all the passive aggressive negativity? Who cares about remarks posted by X or Y on social media about situation Z? :chill
Let the music and the performance speak for itself!
Go enjoy the show. It is absolutely fantastic. I have been at the concerts in London and Malmö and can testify that the experience is very special and extraordinary. At both concerts, people have been singing and dancing from the beginning to the end. :heart :heart
You make me giggle.
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At least there's fan footage of this tour, unlike TA.
But there is.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uHswFwb-yj0
Lot of it actually..
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A few cringeworthy retweets today of people talking about how these Shattered Fortress shows are showing the soul/spark of DT left with Mike. I still don't think some of the comments a few pages back were a big deal, but there's no defending some of his more recent social media activity.
Still looking forward to the NYC Shattered Fortress show :lol
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Looking forward to the retweets of people bashing James again.
So classy, Mr Portnoy is.
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I stand by the Trump comparison, especially in regards to his hardcore fans. Go read some of the FB comments by his fans and it's some warped, crazy shit. Yikes.
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I thought he has handled the post DT situation poorly for almost 7 years now but that hasn't stopped me from enjoying some of the stuff he's done since. But things like this is just making it hard for me to want to support his endeavors going forward even thought I had little to no interest in the Shattered Fortress stuff to begin with.
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And people are still wondering why the DT guys never address the whole Portnoy thing. If one of them spoke about it, MP would be the first one to comment, tweet or whatever and there would be yet another drama. They know they'll be dragged into something they don't need.
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Maybe them not talking about it is what MP considers drama.
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Maybe them not talking about it is what MP considers drama.
My guess/inference is that he's decided that he doesn't like the terms of the legal agreements that went along with him leaving the band, and he's viewing DT's unwillingness to renegotiate as "drama", because those agreements stand in the way of him doing what he would like to do.
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I said it a few threads back that I basically have the same opinion of MP and Trump. Love their work ethic (mostly), hate their presence on social media. MP has acted like a petulant child ever since he left DT. Again, I wouldn't pay to see this show since I'm convinced it's only being done to feed his ego and slight DT.
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Love all the judgment (NOT). LaBrie went out of his way to bash Mike when the breakup happened (calling him a control freak; claiming what he did in the band wasn't that special or hard; that the band would each take up the slack and do all that Mike did; saying that the real front man could be a front man now; etc.). They also were at each others throats for years before. Why this is all of a sudden a huge deal is beyond me.
As for the songs, it was talked about before; there's a difference between playing a one-off of, say, "Pull Me Under" in a concert (like the PMS thing) and a more formal production (which this is). As long as the license fees are paid (and if I remember correctly, they are by the venue as a blanket thing) there are likely no restrictions. But that's not the same as staging an entire event as a "Night of Dream Theater". David Gilmour plays songs from "The Wall" in his show, and besides the carping in the press by Roger Waters, no one can really say anything about it. I would bet my Gene Simmons coffee mug that Gilmour cannot, under any circumstances, stage a production of "The Wall" in it's entirety.
Here's the thing, though: for all the (in my opinion, off base) assertions that Mike is a baby and a drama queen, I find it funny that no one is giving DT any stick for not allowing the one-off for Shattered Fortress. It's one show (or a handful, around the world) in a 1,000 seat club (in NY), and isn't even sold out (to my knowledge). This isn't going to tarnish the DT legacy any more than it's already tarnished. To not let Mike do this is just as childish (and actually worse, since it fucks with Mike's livelihood).
As for the "he LEFT!" argument, I've said this before, he may have initially tested the waters, but so what? The excuse that "Mike Mangini left his job for this! We OWE him!" is noble, and sounds good in, well, the social media war, but that's akin to being married for 25 years, with children, and saying "well, I invited my new girlfriend to our daughters wedding; she already bought the plane ticket, so you, Mom, can't go!" He put 25 years of blood, sweat and tears into that band, and to not even entertain his needs - when they most certainly did for several other members of the band - is not an insignificant thing.
Team Mike and proud of it.
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Here's the thing, though: for all the (in my opinion, off base) assertions that Mike is a baby and a drama queen, I find it funny that no one is giving DT any stick for not allowing the one-off for Shattered Fortress. It's one show (or a handful, around the world) in a 1,000 seat club (in NY), and isn't even sold out (to my knowledge). This isn't going to tarnish the DT legacy any more than it's already tarnished. To not let Mike do this is just as childish (and actually worse, since it fucks with Mike's livelihood).
I'm team nobody, and am not knowledgeable with the relationships of DT members at all, but these to me, are pretty hard facts that are indisputable:
1. Mike did choose to leave. A band is more than one person - if he's telling the band that he's going to take a break and not work for 6 months, or one year - he's fucking with 4 other person's livelihoods. They can say, "no, sorry - we can't take a break. We need to generate income, we need to tour, we need to keep pushing and building on what we've done." Whatever the case is. It's happened in so many other bands - Nightwish, for example. They've fired two singers because those singers felt that they were more important than the band, which is a true freight-train which is always moving forward until they reach a scheduled year-long break for recuperation. Queensryche as well - Tate wasn't going to work in QR in 2012, and those guys hired Todd LaTorre to play a few shows so they could generate income. and we all know what happened there after the band realized that they could do just as well with a different person in that position.
2. When Tate and Queensryche settled their split, it was revealed that Tate negotiated for the rights to play Mindcrime in full. Portnoy made a statement at that time that he wished he had done the same with the 12-Step Suite, which he feels is his. Fair enough - it's personal to him, and he came up with the idea and helped write them.
But DT likely retains the rights to those songs, since he admitted he never secured them in his exit. Any musician can assemble a group and play whatever song they want. You are right in that the venues pay fees to publishing companies to allow live performances of any song. But DT has the absolute right to say, "no, sorry, those are our songs, written and recorded under our name, and we will not allow you to release a recorded version of it under your name."
That is a hard fact, and I don't see any problem with them protecting their product. They may want to reserve the right to release a recorded version of the 12-Step Suite in full on their own, if desired. Nobody's denying him the right to go out and play the songs under his own name, and he's hopefully making some decent money by extending these performances throughout this year, rather than the original handful of festival shows that were originally booked.
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At least there's fan footage of this tour, unlike TA.
I think when TA kicked off it was a no cameras type event, and eventually DT relented because people were pretty chuffed over it.
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IMO the core of what really hapenned about DT not letting MP return to the band was that, despite all the work and dedication MP put on DT, the fact that he wanted to get back to DTjust because he was "fired" by AX7. I guess the trust in him was totally broken.
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At least there's fan footage of this tour, unlike TA.
I think when TA kicked off it was a no cameras type event, and eventually DT relented because people were pretty chuffed over it.
Not from my experience. They were hardcore against it at the NJ show last fall. However, there are videos out there, just not as much and of the best quality that you can often find during a tour.
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Not from my experience. They were hardcore against it at the NJ show last fall. However, there are videos out there, just not as much and of the best quality that you can often find during a tour.
Well I'm using that as an example of why there was not a lot of TA footage out there. Not that I'm a huge TA fan, or anything.. the TSF stuff excites me more, though.
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""Here's the thing, though: for all the (in my opinion, off base) assertions that Mike is a baby and a drama queen, I find it funny that no one is giving DT any stick for not allowing the one-off for Shattered Fortress. It's one show (or a handful, around the world) in a 1,000 seat club (in NY), and isn't even sold out (to my knowledge). This isn't going to tarnish the DT legacy any more than it's already tarnished. To not let Mike do this is just as childish (and actually worse, since it fucks with Mike's livelihood).
How is it either childish or messing with his livelihood? First, do we actually know what the agreement is or if Mike even asked to be able to record/release it? Or are people just assuming this because of Mike saying that he doesn't need any drama with DT? Assuming he did ask, and they did say no, I guess that means they have the right to do so per the legal agreement that was established when he left. Them adhering to that agreement isn't messing with his livelihood, it's simply them following the agreement. I think he's doing fine financially since leaving DT (could be wrong, but he's done so much, including those huge Twisted Sister gigs); he isn't going to starve because the agreement he apparently signed doesn't let him record an entire set of Dream Theater's music. Rather than DT being childish, maybe they are the ones who truly don't want any drama and just want to follow the agreement to the letter and not deviate from it because then they don't have to deal with any of it.
In any case, we don't know exactly how any of this went down. All we know is that Mike claims to not want any drama, so you better see this before the clock strikes 2018 or else you'll have missed your chance. Maybe not releasing a dvd is actually helping Mike to promote these shows?
I am interested in seeing The Shattered Fortress - looks like it will be a fun time - but I do wish he would stop stirring the pot online.
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I don't want to have to pick teams or sides. I love most of what MP has done post MP and I love most of what DT has done post MP from a musical perspective. I loath social media precisely because of these situations. I don't like how MP has been coming across over the years but it prevent me from supporting his music (except for the shattered fortress stuff).
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Love all the judgment (NOT). LaBrie went out of his way to bash Mike when the breakup happened (calling him a control freak; claiming what he did in the band wasn't that special or hard; that the band would each take up the slack and do all that Mike did; saying that the real front man could be a front man now; etc.). They also were at each others throats for years before. Why this is all of a sudden a huge deal is beyond me.
If you can honestly look at the public comments James has made and look at the public comments MP has made and come to the conclusion James is the one bashing, I'm not sure what to tell you. If they were at each others throats for years, that's between them, all I can do is look at what they have each actually said publicly, heck MP bashed James publicly when he was still in the band :lol
Here's the thing, though: for all the (in my opinion, off base) assertions that Mike is a baby and a drama queen, I find it funny that no one is giving DT any stick for not allowing the one-off for Shattered Fortress. It's one show (or a handful, around the world) in a 1,000 seat club (in NY), and isn't even sold out (to my knowledge). This isn't going to tarnish the DT legacy any more than it's already tarnished. To not let Mike do this is just as childish (and actually worse, since it fucks with Mike's livelihood).
What are you talking about? How is DT "not allowing" it? Aren't you going to the NYC show? I'm pretty sure if DT weren't allowing it somehow (not sure they could do that) you wouldn't be headed to see it.
The last bolded part leads to....
As for the "he LEFT!" argument, I've said this before, he may have initially tested the waters, but so what? The excuse that "Mike Mangini left his job for this! We OWE him!" is noble, and sounds good in, well, the social media war, but that's akin to being married for 25 years, with children, and saying "well, I invited my new girlfriend to our daughters wedding; she already bought the plane ticket, so you, Mom, can't go!" He put 25 years of blood, sweat and tears into that band, and to not even entertain his needs - when they most certainly did for several other members of the band - is not an insignificant thing.
So MP's livelihood is important and DT should make decisions that are best for his liveihood even though he isn't a part of the band anymore, but MM's liveihood isn't important even though at that point he was a member of the band? Yikes.
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Love all the judgment (NOT). LaBrie went out of his way to bash Mike when the breakup happened (calling him a control freak; claiming what he did in the band wasn't that special or hard; that the band would each take up the slack and do all that Mike did; saying that the real front man could be a front man now; etc.). They also were at each others throats for years before. Why this is all of a sudden a huge deal is beyond me.
If you can honestly look at the public comments James has made and look at the public comments MP has made and come to the conclusion James is the one bashing, I'm not sure what to tell you. If they were at each others throats for years, that's between them, all I can do is look at what they have each actually said publicly, heck MP bashed James publicly when he was still in the band :lol
Here's the thing, though: for all the (in my opinion, off base) assertions that Mike is a baby and a drama queen, I find it funny that no one is giving DT any stick for not allowing the one-off for Shattered Fortress. It's one show (or a handful, around the world) in a 1,000 seat club (in NY), and isn't even sold out (to my knowledge). This isn't going to tarnish the DT legacy any more than it's already tarnished. To not let Mike do this is just as childish (and actually worse, since it fucks with Mike's livelihood).
What are you talking about? How is DT "not allowing" it? Aren't you going to the NYC show? I'm pretty sure if DT weren't allowing it somehow (not sure they could do that) you wouldn't be headed to see it.
The last bolded part leads to....
As for the "he LEFT!" argument, I've said this before, he may have initially tested the waters, but so what? The excuse that "Mike Mangini left his job for this! We OWE him!" is noble, and sounds good in, well, the social media war, but that's akin to being married for 25 years, with children, and saying "well, I invited my new girlfriend to our daughters wedding; she already bought the plane ticket, so you, Mom, can't go!" He put 25 years of blood, sweat and tears into that band, and to not even entertain his needs - when they most certainly did for several other members of the band - is not an insignificant thing.
So MP's livelihood is important and DT should make decisions that are best for his liveihood even though he isn't a part of the band anymore, but MM's liveihood isn't important even though at that point he was a member of the band? Yikes.
Maybe - maybe it's just a bad analogy. I didn't initially respond to it because I wasn't sure what the "it" was. Stadler were you using that analogy somehow in conjunction with DT "not letting" MP record the Shattered Fortress tour for a dvd? I don't think so, because it doesn't make sense... or was it just that they won't let MP back in the band? Even so, the analogy doesn't work, at all. A better analogy would be: you're married for 25 years, your wife decides to leave you for a younger man, you get remarried, and then when the younger man dumps her, she wants to get back with you.
I think Mangini having left his job was a real part of the consideration when MP tried to come back, but it was part of the bigger picture. DT had just been through a lot - they were upset that Mike left; I think Jordan even said he cried. They found a drummer they thought was great and meshed with them, he quit his job, and they were probably on an emotional roller coaster that included some low lows but also the excitement of working with the new guy. When MP wanted to come back, it just wasn't possible for a lot of reasons. Would he have tried if Avenged Sevenfold wanted him to join their band? Probably not - and what had changed from MP's perspective? Nothing except he didn't get the job he might have thought he was going to. I believe Jordan made a comment in an interview that Mangini's personality was important because MP had basically said "he didn't like us anymore." None of those issues would have been worked out when Mike tried to come back, and after everything they had been through, they probably didn't trust him, didn't want to let MM down, were excited to work with MM and see what the future would bring, and didn't have it in them emotionally to try to let MP back in.
None of that seems to be spiteful or childish on DT's part. And as more time went by after the split, maybe they found that they were just happier working with MM?
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Love all the judgment (NOT). LaBrie went out of his way to bash Mike when the breakup happened (calling him a control freak; claiming what he did in the band wasn't that special or hard; that the band would each take up the slack and do all that Mike did; saying that the real front man could be a front man now; etc.). They also were at each others throats for years before. Why this is all of a sudden a huge deal is beyond me.
Everything James said was true though. Mike has a huge ego, and was pretty much trying to take over vocal duties. James didn't get any say in vocal melodies, evidenced by Chaos in Progress, and as far as the other guys taking over Mike's other responsibilities, I'm pretty sure that's what he meant by what he did not being hard or special. Not his drumming abilities. Mike IS a control freak. Again, evidenced by CiP. James has every right to call out MP's bullshit. Mike has been talking shit about James for years. There's being honest and then there's just being a jerk.
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My best friend goes to a lot of shows with me and he doesn't do any form of social media so I think stuff is so much more pure for him. No negativity, no drama, just shows as they are meant to be. Awesome entertainment.
I think there is something great about not knowing what Mike says, he fans say, his haters say, etc...
He goes in not knowing or hearing any of that stuff and I think that's very cool.
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My best friend goes to a lot of shows with he and he doesn't do any form of social media so I think stuff is so much more pure for him. No negativity, no drama, just shows as they are meant to be. Awesome entertainment.
I think there is something great about not knowing what Mike says, he fans say, his haters say, etc...
He goes in not knowing or hearing any of that stuff and I think that's very cool.
Funny you mention this. Late last year, I took it as a personal challenge to not dwell on any of the drama and negativity concerning music moving forward. I just go see the artists I enjoy, and take the show for what it is -- entertainment, as opposed to back stories around what goes on with the bands. I've enjoyed it a lot more.
Personally, I made a bunch of mistakes in the past regarding my favorite group (and did some good things too), but at the end of the day, its supposed to be entertainment for us (the fans). I hate hearing how so and so fucks with so and so's livelihood and all that. I remember diving in and saying the same things for years. For me personally, it was just time to move on.
So, I commend your friend for staying free of the social media regarding music and just enjoying it all. It's totally the way to go.
As for the issue at bar, I really have no dog in the so-called race. No "team" here. I think everyone in the DT camp has likely made mistakes, or said things they regret. And I hope, for all their sakes, they reconnect, apologize, and remember the bond that they once all had. I guarantee you if MP, JR, JP, JLB, and JM all got into a room, and they aired it out together, and they went in there with reconciliation, not blame, on their minds, they would do it. And MM would probably gladly step aside.
But clearly, they aren't at that point yet. I hope they are some day. :)
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As for the issue at bar, I really have no dog in the so-called race. No "team" here. I think everyone in the DT camp has likely made mistakes, or said things they regret. And I hope, for all their sakes, they reconnect, apologize, and remember the bond that they once all had. I guarantee you if MP, JR, JP, JLB, and JM all got into a room, and they aired it out together, and they went in there with reconciliation, not blame, on their minds, they would do it. And MM would probably gladly step aside.
But clearly, they aren't at that point yet. I hope they are some day. :)
I think it would be great if they aired it out and reconcield with each other... however I don't think MM should step aside. I think it's better for both that MP stayes out of DT. I also think it's better for us fans as we get 10 times as much music with MP free to handle a multitude of bands...
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I can't say too much, but let's just say there's stuff that has happened and is continuing to happen "behind closed doors" as it were. Not everything that is going on has been talked about in the media...
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I can't say too much, but let's just say there's stuff that has happened and is continuing to happen "behind closed doors" as it were. Not everything that is going on has been talked about in the media...
And if it's not going to be something positive, "behind closed doors" is probably the best place for that stuff then.
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I can't say too much, but let's just say there's stuff that has happened and is continuing to happen "behind closed doors" as it were. Not everything that is going on has been talked about in the media...
Within the band or with MP and DT?
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Love all the judgment (NOT). LaBrie went out of his way to bash Mike when the breakup happened (calling him a control freak; claiming what he did in the band wasn't that special or hard; that the band would each take up the slack and do all that Mike did; saying that the real front man could be a front man now; etc.). They also were at each others throats for years before. Why this is all of a sudden a huge deal is beyond me.
As for the songs, it was talked about before; there's a difference between playing a one-off of, say, "Pull Me Under" in a concert (like the PMS thing) and a more formal production (which this is). As long as the license fees are paid (and if I remember correctly, they are by the venue as a blanket thing) there are likely no restrictions. But that's not the same as staging an entire event as a "Night of Dream Theater". David Gilmour plays songs from "The Wall" in his show, and besides the carping in the press by Roger Waters, no one can really say anything about it. I would bet my Gene Simmons coffee mug that Gilmour cannot, under any circumstances, stage a production of "The Wall" in it's entirety.
Here's the thing, though: for all the (in my opinion, off base) assertions that Mike is a baby and a drama queen, I find it funny that no one is giving DT any stick for not allowing the one-off for Shattered Fortress. It's one show (or a handful, around the world) in a 1,000 seat club (in NY), and isn't even sold out (to my knowledge). This isn't going to tarnish the DT legacy any more than it's already tarnished. To not let Mike do this is just as childish (and actually worse, since it fucks with Mike's livelihood).
As for the "he LEFT!" argument, I've said this before, he may have initially tested the waters, but so what? The excuse that "Mike Mangini left his job for this! We OWE him!" is noble, and sounds good in, well, the social media war, but that's akin to being married for 25 years, with children, and saying "well, I invited my new girlfriend to our daughters wedding; she already bought the plane ticket, so you, Mom, can't go!" He put 25 years of blood, sweat and tears into that band, and to not even entertain his needs - when they most certainly did for several other members of the band - is not an insignificant thing.
Team Mike and proud of it.
I was going to take apart your post piece by piece (a few others already have, and done it well) but really there is no point. I can see why you're such a big MP fan. This post alone is probably the most absurd things I've ever seen you write. You take a few morsels of truth and blow them up and exaggerate them beyond any reason. Blabbermouth could take some lessons from you.
Moving on...
It seems with every new project I try to look at it with fresh eyes and actually get a little excited. This one was no exception and the videos thus far have been great. I even thought to myself, if only there were a show within a few hours drive I *might* have to go. Then Mike opens his mouth again (or rather his internet connection) and I lose all interest. I'm pretty good about separating the art from the person. One of my favorite musicians is Ozzy Osbourne (circa 1970-1995) but I absolutely despise the man. There are film directors who I think are pretty bad people but I will always love their art.
The funny thing is, MP is not a bad person compared to some of these people but he is the most passive aggressive musician I can think of. It just sucks all the fun out of it. It is so constant and public that it is hard separating the man who happens to be an awesome musician from his behavior.
When I first got into DT, he had a bit of a reputation for being grumpy and a little passive aggressive. Then Never Enough came out and the friends that got me into them bailed on the band (for several reasons but that was one). I thought to myself, "Big deal." I even remember some DT fan site had a joke article about DT fans being distraught that there wasn't any side projects from the members in over a month or something. They ended the article with a fake passive aggressive quote from MP which I thought was hilarious but even then it was just a quirk of his...nothing to get pissed off over.
But now to see the lengths he will go to slam his former band makes me wonder if even the three band members he is on good terms with is even really "good terms." I can see JR and JP being on good terms insomuch as they wish him and his family well. But I would be dumbfounded if any of those three members even have the slightest desire to see him back in the band for this very reason.
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The song Never Enough would be a very poor reason to bail on Dream Theater. The meaning of that song can apply to many different situations in life, so I never took it literally. Plus I love the main riff and the sick unison soloing! :metal
No matter what kind of drama happened in the past, I will always love DT and Mike Portnoy for the great music they have put out and continue to do so.
MP has done some amazing stuff, especially Similitude Of A Dream with the NMB. That album is brilliant.
DT has put out 3 amazing albums since then and has alot left in them. While I miss MP, MM definitely gets the job done and is a big part of DT.
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I don't think calling MP a control freak is bashing, I remember in some older interviews MP called himself a control freak. He doesn't any more, but this recent interview is interesting, especially the comment "After I left Dream Theater, every band I've done ... are kind of democratic bands where everybody has creative input and that's great cause you get a little bit of everybody in it, but it's also very frustrating."
https://www.blabbermouth.net/news/mike-portnoy-says-he-is-very-comfortable-being-a-team-player-complains-about-having-too-many-chefs-in-the-kitchen/
I don't know MP or any of the DT guys, but I know what it means to deal with a control freak. It doesn't mean he/she is a bad person, not at all, and nobody chooses to be like that, but a control freak limits the freedom of others and tends to turn into a tyrant. That's the only way to control everything, humans included.
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It took almost 30 years and Stu Block to break Jon Schaffer of his controlling nature.
Someone send Mike a Stu Block for Christmas.
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I can't say too much, but let's just say there's stuff that has happened and is continuing to happen "behind closed doors" as it were. Not everything that is going on has been talked about in the media...
THIS THIS and THIS
There is a lot more to the situation than is public. One side has put up an iron wall. I do wish the other side would at least put up a picket fence(at least on things pertaining to this subject).
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Did Mike pull a Tate and try to claim percentages?
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I don't usually have nothing to say about this whole MP vs DT thing.. It just leaves me silenced.. Let's say something about it this time:
In any case, we don't know exactly how any of this went down.
Agreed.. Also, I think what noxon said is a common thing and that every band has their own stuff happening 'behind closed doors'.. We're all humans and no one's perfect.. Ok, some does say more (than others) negative things that unfortunately affect other people... but that's just human "nature" nowadays; we should be used to that by now or, if not, then we should be in our way to be used to that..
No matter what kind of drama happened in the past, I will always love DT and Mike Portnoy for the great music they have put out and continue to do so.
This, although I find it pretty obvious too.. I mean, I don't get at all people that stop listen to X artist because of personal issues.. Learn to separate things ppl!.. The art has nothing to do with what the artist does in his/her regular life, apart from that art itself, again, obviously.. So many obvious things but yet so hard to understand for some, and I'm including the guy I'm definitely going to see on October 24..
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I stand by the Trump comparison, especially in regards to his hardcore fans. Go read some of the FB comments by his fans and it's some warped, crazy shit. Yikes.
Kudos to Stadler for reading this post of mine and doing a parody of some of those FB rantings.
I mean, that was what your post was, right?
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This, although I find it pretty obvious too.. I mean, I don't get at all people that stop listen to X artist because of personal issues.. Learn to separate things ppl!.. The art has nothing to do with what the artist does in his/her regular life, apart from that art itself, again, obviously.. So many obvious things but yet so hard to understand for some, and I'm including the guy I'm definitely going to see on October 24..
I definitely try to separate the two, but I think everyone has a point where it either becomes hard to separate the two, or you just find the personality so off putting you don't want to support the person anymore. Some people that point was the release of the song Never Enough :lol I'm not sure what that point is for me, I haven't reached it yet, but I can totally see reasoning where they do become attached.
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I stand by the Trump comparison, especially in regards to his hardcore fans. Go read some of the FB comments by his fans and it's some warped, crazy shit. Yikes.
Kudos to Stadler for reading this post of mine and doing a parody of some of those FB rantings.
I mean, that was what your post was, right?
So we finally figured out that Stadler is really Alec Baldwin.
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I stand by the Trump comparison, especially in regards to his hardcore fans. Go read some of the FB comments by his fans and it's some warped, crazy shit. Yikes.
Kudos to Stadler for reading this post of mine and doing a parody of some of those FB rantings.
I mean, that was what your post was, right?
:lol
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I posted something similar on MP's forum that it would be like someone tweeting "DT was amazing tonight, SO MUCH better with Mangini than the Portnoy years" and Mangini or worse yet Labrie retweeted it. To me that would be a bit hostile.
and
What I am annoyed with it is all the negative tweets about DT that get retweeted by MP.
"I have seen DT 3 times since your departure, but the clips from Paris showed to me that you made DT the band it was and no longer is."
Or things like DT has no soul anymore once you left
It's so contentious. Nothing wrong with praising MP and this tour but it always seems to come with a slam on DT.
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Did Mike pull a Tate and try to claim percentages?
Say what you will about Tate but he really seems more at peace with himself and has moved on. Doesn't mean he wont play QR songs but he doesn't get involved with the comparisons.
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I can't say too much, but let's just say there's stuff that has happened and is continuing to happen "behind closed doors" as it were. Not everything that is going on has been talked about in the media...
THIS THIS and THIS
There is a lot more to the situation than is public.
Okay, but the thing is, I don't think anyone is concerned about what may or may not have happened behind closed doors. What people are objecting to is one party constantly taking passive-aggressive shots publicly. And that's all it is about.
It's all well and good to say, "but you don't know the whole picture! There is more that happened than you'll ever know." But (1) people are only commenting on what we DO know, and (2) nobody would be commenting at all if Portnoy would let it go and not comment instead of constantly fueling the fire. And like it or not, #2 is HUGE. Nobody on the DT side is commenting. Mike Portnoy IS commenting. If he stopped, it would hardly ever get brought up.
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He put 25 years of blood, sweat and tears into that band, and to not even entertain his needs - when they most certainly did for several other members of the band - is not an insignificant thing.
I'm definitely with you on the MP fanboyism, but this part of your post that I've pruned I don't think is fair to the band. According to the guys in Avenged Sevenfold, Mike quit the band when he was positive he was going to join A7X full time (and would thus make a lot of money by doing that). When those guys told him they had other ideas, Mike then tried to rejoin Dream Theater. Under those circumstances, I don't think DT have any responsibility whatsoever to "entertain his needs", especially given Mike seems not to have entertained their needs when he asked to suspend the band (and hence their main source of income) for some years.
I'm on neither 'team' as far as these things go. I love most of Mike's projects and bands, I'm seeing The Shattered Fortress next Wednesday in St Petersburg, and Dream Theater are still my favourite band which is still active. Both camps are making great music. I get the impression Mike still has some bitterness and resentment (justifiably or not, it's not for me to say, I don't know 1% of what went on) about what happened 7 years ago, and hopefully this tour he's doing can help him lay a few ghosts and demons to rest.
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Some people that point was the release of the song Never Enough :lol I'm not sure what that point is for me, I haven't reached it yet, but I can totally see reasoning where they do become attached.
Even when MP said he was referring to the 2% of the fanbase.. But yeah, I for instance do not get that kind of overreaction before something so irrelevant as one single lyric..
Nobody on the DT side is commenting. Mike Portnoy IS commenting. If he stopped, it would hardly ever get brought up.
Mmmm, not so sure about this.. I have read/heard about all of these very things even when Portnoy didn't say a thing.... well, at least for let's say a few months (more than that he can't stand I guess); and we know he started his comments against DT right since he left, so... :-\
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I gotta say, all this MP/DT drama is way more entertaining now that I have more emotional distance from both parties :lol
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Anyone else get kind of a Metallica/Dave Mustaine vibe from the current DT/MP relationship?
Obviously not in the details of the relationship, just more so how the ex-member deals with the band. Though MP seems much less of a dick.
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I gotta say, all this MP/DT drama is way more entertaining now that I have more emotional distance from both parties :lol
If only it could be documented on a Telemundo soap opera.
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I gotta say, all this MP/DT drama is way more entertaining now that I have more emotional distance from both parties :lol
If only it could be documented on a Telemundo soap opera.
Oh man, I'm thinking a Lifetime movie. Or whatever channel they did that Saved by the Bell thing on.
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Anyone else get kind of a Metallica/Dave Mustaine vibe from the current DT/MP relationship?
Obviously not in the details of the relationship, just more so how the ex-member deals with the band. Though MP seems much less of a dick.
And though DT, unlike Metallica, aren't saying anything about it, nor adding more fuel :lol to the fire..
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This, although I find it pretty obvious too.. I mean, I don't get at all people that stop listen to X artist because of personal issues.. Learn to separate things ppl!.. The art has nothing to do with what the artist does in his/her regular life, apart from that art itself, again, obviously.. So many obvious things but yet so hard to understand for some, and I'm including the guy I'm definitely going to see on October 24..
I think that sort of mentality is really hard for people to fathom. I know it's hard for me to fathom something like this. I mean I really enjoyed this song, "Rooftops" from this band called Lostprophets, but I cannot listen to that song since the lead singer went to jail for committing such heinous actions. I know wrestling fans find it really hard to watch Chris Benoit matches since those matches pretty much inadvertently caused his death and his heinous actions.
As for Portnoy, I don't follow the guy much on a big scale like I would with my favorite bands, but I'm sure I probably would feel some form of fatigue and disinterest in whatever he is doing if every now and then he makes a passive-aggressive comment to DT. Still, I do like Winery Dogs a decent amount and I'm all ears if they make another studio album and won't let my personal thoughts about Portnoy on social media get in a way of enjoying a band like Winery Dogs.
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I gotta say, all this MP/DT drama is way more entertaining now that I have more emotional distance from both parties :lol
If only it could be documented on a Telemundo soap opera.
Oh man, I'm thinking a Lifetime movie. Or whatever channel they did that Saved by the Bell thing on.
Seriously. That would be amazing! :lol
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Someone needs to do a Screech/MP photoshoppy thing. The call has gone out for Zydar!
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Some people that point was the release of the song Never Enough :lol I'm not sure what that point is for me, I haven't reached it yet, but I can totally see reasoning where they do become attached.
Even when MP said he was referring to the 2% of the fanbase.. But yeah, I for instance do not get that kind of overreaction before something so irrelevant as one single lyric..
The people I was referring to probably just used that as an excuse. They were already saying all that crap like "DT changed" and blah blah. One time I confronted one of them and was like, "Dude, it's ok to admit that you just aren't into that music anymore or that your love for them was a flash in the pan." But yeah, when Never Enough came out I had been into DT for 5 years but probably only fanatical about them for a year or so and I was like, big deal. Those same people didn't like Train of Thought or Octavarium so I think Never Enough annoyed them and was a good excuse to back off from a band they used to be hardcore about. I still think the song is great. It's funny that he keeps using "Never Enough" in social media and what not.
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I stand by the Trump comparison, especially in regards to his hardcore fans. Go read some of the FB comments by his fans and it's some warped, crazy shit. Yikes.
Kudos to Stadler for reading this post of mine and doing a parody of some of those FB rantings.
I mean, that was what your post was, right?
So we finally figured out that Stadler is really Alec Baldwin.
:lol :lol
I definitely try to separate the two, but I think everyone has a point where it either becomes hard to separate the two, or you just find the personality so off putting you don't want to support the person anymore. Some people that point was the release of the song Never Enough :lol I'm not sure what that point is for me, I haven't reached it yet, but I can totally see reasoning where they do become attached.
Eh, I have not been a fan of Potrtnoy the man (vs Mike Portnoy the musician) for a decade and a half now, but I still buy tons of music he is a part of. The music is what matters the most, regardless of how many tantrums he throws on social media (and there have been too many to count or remember them all).
He put 25 years of blood, sweat and tears into that band, and to not even entertain his needs - when they most certainly did for several other members of the band - is not an insignificant thing.
this part of your post that I've pruned I don't think is fair to the band. According to the guys in Avenged Sevenfold, Mike quit the band when he was positive he was going to join A7X full time (and would thus make a lot of money by doing that). When those guys told him they had other ideas, Mike then tried to rejoin Dream Theater. Under those circumstances, I don't think DT have any responsibility whatsoever to "entertain his needs", especially given Mike seems not to have entertained their needs when he asked to suspend the band (and hence their main source of income) for some years.
Excellent point. :tup :tup
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Love all the judgment (NOT). LaBrie went out of his way to bash Mike when the breakup happened (calling him a control freak; claiming what he did in the band wasn't that special or hard; that the band would each take up the slack and do all that Mike did; saying that the real front man could be a front man now; etc.). They also were at each others throats for years before. Why this is all of a sudden a huge deal is beyond me.
As for the songs, it was talked about before; there's a difference between playing a one-off of, say, "Pull Me Under" in a concert (like the PMS thing) and a more formal production (which this is). As long as the license fees are paid (and if I remember correctly, they are by the venue as a blanket thing) there are likely no restrictions. But that's not the same as staging an entire event as a "Night of Dream Theater". David Gilmour plays songs from "The Wall" in his show, and besides the carping in the press by Roger Waters, no one can really say anything about it. I would bet my Gene Simmons coffee mug that Gilmour cannot, under any circumstances, stage a production of "The Wall" in it's entirety.
Here's the thing, though: for all the (in my opinion, off base) assertions that Mike is a baby and a drama queen, I find it funny that no one is giving DT any stick for not allowing the one-off for Shattered Fortress. It's one show (or a handful, around the world) in a 1,000 seat club (in NY), and isn't even sold out (to my knowledge). This isn't going to tarnish the DT legacy any more than it's already tarnished. To not let Mike do this is just as childish (and actually worse, since it fucks with Mike's livelihood).
As for the "he LEFT!" argument, I've said this before, he may have initially tested the waters, but so what? The excuse that "Mike Mangini left his job for this! We OWE him!" is noble, and sounds good in, well, the social media war, but that's akin to being married for 25 years, with children, and saying "well, I invited my new girlfriend to our daughters wedding; she already bought the plane ticket, so you, Mom, can't go!" He put 25 years of blood, sweat and tears into that band, and to not even entertain his needs - when they most certainly did for several other members of the band - is not an insignificant thing.
Team Mike and proud of it.
I totally agree with every sentence of this post.
Well said.
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I love Mike and will always follow his music but let's not pretend we don't know what was going on between Mike and James. James has a food reason to be upset.
What we don't see is James continually opening up old wounds like Mike does. Mike needs to let it go and he can't.
It's on Mike.
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I totally agree with every sentence of this post.
Given that what he said about DT not allowing the Shattered Fortress show is factually wrong, how can you agree with every sentence?
Or are you simply patting him on the back for the parody?
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James has a food reason to be upset.
Talk about a poisonous typo.
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:lol
Mike Portnoy and the 4 Dwarfs? :lol
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Yeah, I heard he was coughing and Haken.
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I love Mike and will always follow his music but let's not pretend we don't know what was going on between Mike and James. James has a food reason to be upset.
What we don't see is James continually opening up old wounds like Mike does. Mike needs to let it go and he can't.
It's on Mike.
All of this.
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I totally agree with every sentence of this post.
Given that what he said about DT not allowing the Shattered Fortress show is factually wrong, how can you agree with every sentence?
Or are you simply patting him on the back for the parody?
:rollin :lol :rollin
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If I could afford it, I'd definitely go to one of these shows, but I know they aren't coming anywhere near Arizona. The YouTube videos are great, and Ross is doing a fantastic job singing the songs.
I'd actually like another chance to meet MP as last time it was awkward. I just wish he wouldn't be so "honest" about everything. Just saying how he wished they had a different singer while he was still in the band is reason enough for James to be resentful. They were family for many years, then it's like, "oh that's how you feel? FU then." I'm sure some nobody saying that would just roll off his back, but not one of his long time band mates.
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On a different note it seems that a lot of people like this Ross guy whereas after the cruise I got the feeling a lot of people didn't like him. I think he is kind of a mix between James LaBrie and John Arch so I happen to like him.
Good choice of a vocalist. The three guitarists though....what is this? Guns N' Roses Circa 2006?
I saw Mike said he didn't want to use just half of Haken so instead he uses all of them....minus the drummer. Why not just have two drummers though if you're going to have three guitarists? :lol
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James has a food reason to be upset.
Talk about a poisonous typo.
Yeah, I heard he was coughing and Haken.
:rollin
This has been an interesting discussion, but the above comments are why I enjoy this site.
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I love Mike and will always follow his music but let's not pretend we don't know what was going on between Mike and James. James has a food reason to be upset.
What we don't see is James continually opening up old wounds like Mike does. Mike needs to let it go and he can't.
It's on Mike.
Agreed.
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Maybe he needs to revisit some of the later steps - he's got a reminder every night of the tour.
Yep. Whatever happened to "kindness - it's not that hard", "self-restraint of tongue and pen" and "willingness to understand?"
Have you never heard the hidden bonus track on the Vietnamese import CD of BC&SL?
It's an epilogue to the 12 steps called "XIII - Ah, Screw It" where the person just decides to ignore everything they just went through and go back to abusing people.
I thought he has handled the post DT situation poorly for almost 7 years now but that hasn't stopped me from enjoying some of the stuff he's done since. But things like this is just making it hard for me to want to support his endeavors going forward even thought I had little to no interest in the Shattered Fortress stuff to begin with.
I used to think like this but I just can't excuse his attitude any longer. I'm really starting to hate the guy and I'm not thrilled about that.
Every once in a while a thread pops up where someone asks if our enjoyment of artists is diminished if their character/morals/etc are questionable (ie. they're dicks). Some people say it does, others say it doesn't, but I'm in the "it does" category. I just cannot support a-holes and the worst part is, even if I want to support other members (ie. Billy Sheehan and Richie Kotzen) the terrible attitude of one person affects them also... at least in my book.
Love all the judgment (NOT). LaBrie went out of his way to bash Mike when the breakup happened (calling him a control freak; claiming what he did in the band wasn't that special or hard; that the band would each take up the slack and do all that Mike did; saying that the real front man could be a front man now; etc.). They also were at each others throats for years before. Why this is all of a sudden a huge deal is beyond me.
I'll cherry-pick this first paragraph.
So, when MP left cuz DT called him out on his BS, James may have said something *possibly* negative? So you're saying he's *not* a control freak? And in all these years since MP left he's taken every opportunity to trash DT and DT "fans" and SPECIFICALLY JL and be truly negative and abusive whereas DT has kept quiet and tried to move on but MP, who left, is somehow a victim in all this? So one or two things that *may* be interpreted as negative towards MP is somehow NOT ok but you give MP, who left, with all the trash he has said over the years a free pass?
This is what should be beyond you, man, seriously. It's like those Youtube videos where the bully is being filmed by their buddies who keep taunting their prey who then proceeds to smash the face of the bully and then all of a sudden the friends of the bully are screaming bloody murder and call the cops and all that junk. MP is the bully who keeps talking trash and people just blindly defend him and say the prey is at-fault when they clearly aren't.
O_o
What we don't see is James continually opening up old wounds like Mike does. Mike needs to let it go and he can't.
It's on Mike.
But he doesn't hold grudges and he's just being honest and doesn't want any more drama so leave Mikey alone!
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On a different note it seems that a lot of people like this Ross guy whereas after the cruise I got the feeling a lot of people didn't like him. I think he is kind of a mix between James LaBrie and John Arch so I happen to like him.
Good choice of a vocalist. The three guitarists though....what is this? Guns N' Roses Circa 2006?
I saw Mike said he didn't want to use just half of Haken so instead he uses all of them....minus the drummer. Why not just have two drummers though if you're going to have three guitarists? :lol
I have never been a huge Ross Jennings fan, but he has gotten better over time.
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I can't say too much, but let's just say there's stuff that has happened and is continuing to happen "behind closed doors" as it were. Not everything that is going on has been talked about in the media...
THIS THIS and THIS
There is a lot more to the situation than is public.
Okay, but the thing is, I don't think anyone is concerned about what may or may not have happened behind closed doors. What people are objecting to is one party constantly taking passive-aggressive shots publicly. And that's all it is about.
It's all well and good to say, "but you don't know the whole picture! There is more that happened than you'll ever know." But (1) people are only commenting on what we DO know, and (2) nobody would be commenting at all if Portnoy would let it go and not comment instead of constantly fueling the fire. And like it or not, #2 is HUGE. Nobody on the DT side is commenting. Mike Portnoy IS commenting. If he stopped, it would hardly ever get brought up.
Exactly what I was going to post. If stuff is happening behind closed doors, great, that's where it can stay and if it does, I can't comment because I'm on the other side of that door.
I love Mike and will always follow his music but let's not pretend we don't know what was going on between Mike and James. James has a food reason to be upset.
What we don't see is James continually opening up old wounds like Mike does. Mike needs to let it go and he can't.
It's on Mike.
Agreed.
Agreed as well, this seems like it should be logical for most, but I guess it isn't for some.
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I think the fact that the DT camp has stayed pretty silent through all of this speaks volumes. Part of me thinks MP keeps trying to bait them into saying something negative.
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Love all the judgment (NOT). LaBrie went out of his way to bash Mike when the breakup happened (calling him a control freak; claiming what he did in the band wasn't that special or hard; that the band would each take up the slack and do all that Mike did; saying that the real front man could be a front man now; etc.). They also were at each others throats for years before. Why this is all of a sudden a huge deal is beyond me.
If you can honestly look at the public comments James has made and look at the public comments MP has made and come to the conclusion James is the one bashing, I'm not sure what to tell you. If they were at each others throats for years, that's between them, all I can do is look at what they have each actually said publicly, heck MP bashed James publicly when he was still in the band :lol
I don't think it's "either/or". I think it's two guys that don't care about each other that much. All I'm saying is that it's not one-sided, and it's not as if Mike is making shit up to get his name in Blabbermouth.
Here's the thing, though: for all the (in my opinion, off base) assertions that Mike is a baby and a drama queen, I find it funny that no one is giving DT any stick for not allowing the one-off for Shattered Fortress. It's one show (or a handful, around the world) in a 1,000 seat club (in NY), and isn't even sold out (to my knowledge). This isn't going to tarnish the DT legacy any more than it's already tarnished. To not let Mike do this is just as childish (and actually worse, since it fucks with Mike's livelihood).
What are you talking about? How is DT "not allowing" it? Aren't you going to the NYC show? I'm pretty sure if DT weren't allowing it somehow (not sure they could do that) you wouldn't be headed to see it.
The last bolded part leads to....
People are talking here about "rights" as if they are some absolute thing. They are not. I write a song and put it out there, I have no "rights" per se to that song, save the recording I made, and to the extent that if someone else does the song I can get paid. This is why Def Leppard, Maiden, and Kiss (by way of example) were able to do complete, note-for-note re-recordings of their songs to get out from under record labels. ABSENT SOME SPECIFIC AGREEMENT (very important here, and not something we - or at least I - know for sure about) there would be nothing stopping Mike from staging a concert "Dream Theater from A to Z" and playing EVERY song in the catalogue - whether he was on it or not - and releasing a live CD/DVD/Bluray. WITH THE AGREEMENT, there are likely some things that the parties agreed to that they are held to.
As a lawyer, I can tell you that the idea that two people negotiate a contract and just blindly follow it with no changes, no discussions, no modifications (formal or otherwise) is naïve and not reflective of the real world. Time changes. Leverage changes. Intent (of the parties) changes. Hell, it could be as simple as just poor drafting (the language doesn't accurately reflect the intent of the parties; it happens every day). Maybe the parties were worried about Mike forming Dreams Theatres (spelling intentional) and be - like QR, Great White and Ratt - a competing entity. And the language was formed around that. We can't tell anything about that without the agreements. All I'm going on is Mike's comment that he can/will not release a DVD because of "drama" from DT. Whether that is contractual enforcement, or carping or bluffing on Mike's part, none of us know. But it DOES imply that DT didn't say "Hey, Mike, rest easy; if this REALLY IS a one-off, release your DVDs, give us 10% net, and we're good." That's all I'm saying.
So MP's livelihood is important and DT should make decisions that are best for his livelihood even though he isn't a part of the band anymore, but MM's livelihood isn't important even though at that point he was a member of the band? Yikes.
Not sure what you're trying to say, but at the time, none of this was set in stone. I'll grant the argument that yes, by having the "break" conversation, Mike potentially threatened the livelihoods of the others, but that's negotiable; there could have been releases, there could have been new music (Ytsejam or otherwise). And even if there was livelihoods at stake, there's always risk in the world. No one lives (or can live) without ANY risk in this world.
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I think Mangini having left his job was a real part of the consideration when MP tried to come back, but it was part of the bigger picture. DT had just been through a lot - they were upset that Mike left; I think Jordan even said he cried. They found a drummer they thought was great and meshed with them, he quit his job, and they were probably on an emotional roller coaster that included some low lows but also the excitement of working with the new guy. When MP wanted to come back, it just wasn't possible for a lot of reasons. Would he have tried if Avenged Sevenfold wanted him to join their band? Probably not - and what had changed from MP's perspective? Nothing except he didn't get the job he might have thought he was going to. I believe Jordan made a comment in an interview that Mangini's personality was important because MP had basically said "he didn't like us anymore." None of those issues would have been worked out when Mike tried to come back, and after everything they had been through, they probably didn't trust him, didn't want to let MM down, were excited to work with MM and see what the future would bring, and didn't have it in them emotionally to try to let MP back in.
None of that seems to be spiteful or childish on DT's part. And as more time went by after the split, maybe they found that they were just happier working with MM?
All good points, but all speculation. And as such, it doesn't warrant the amount of judgment and castigation that much of this has taken. We know that certain event happened, and we know timelines, but that's it. We don't know the language used. We don't know (with one exception, when the DT lawyer rebuffed Mike's offer to rejoin) who was doing the talking. We don't know the other things (perhaps James said "HIM OR ME" and John couldn't chance losing the voice AND heart of the band in one fell swoop). There's a TON we don't know, and as I've said, we don't know what the contracts say.
I am Team Mike, but if he truly DID "fuck over" the band then he ought to be accountable to that. A LOT of the evidence that he did that, though, is speculative and subjective.
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Stadler, just no. The only one in this discussion speculating about things we don't know is you. People are reacting specifically to what Mike has said or done publicly. There is no basis for anything that you have speculated about in your posts. None. You can be on whatever "team" you like, but let's stick to the facts.
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Bottom line, as I think bosk said earlier (paraphrasing here), MP is the only one saying anything PUBLICLY. If MP would just SHUT UP on social media and in interviews about DT, there would probably be less speculation. There's no real reason for MP to say some of the things he does except to stir the pot a bit.
All he has to say PUBLICLY regarding Shattered Fortress is this:
"Hey, yeah, just revisiting my past one more time in-full before doing something progressive metal oriented with a new band. I probably won't play a ton of DT material with that band, so this is the last time you'll see me doing a full tour of Dream Theater songs. They've moved on, and so have I, and we're all in a better place."
Boom. Done.
But instead, he always goes a bit too far. I mean, I get it, he wants to reply to some reactionary stuff from all of us fans. But he needs to show public restraint. DT does -- wisely.
I am sure there is a ton behind the scenes going on -- both good and bad. Wouldn't surprise me in the least if MP was pissed about the 25th Anniversary of I&W tour and not being a part of it. (Total speculation here on my part.) But at the end of the day, MP is his own worst enemy when it comes to attention. He just can't keep his mouth shut to save himself.
As for all the fault and all of the drama -- DT could very well be treating MP like shit behind the scenes. I don't know. A few of you probably know that answer. But generally speaking, no one knows, because DT keeps its collective mouths shut in the press and online -- and that's smart.
I think most of us (and probably MP himself, privately) realize MP made a mistake leaving DT and tried to strong arm them into something they didn't want to do, and then MP made another mistake by jumping ship, and giving his former bandmates all the leverage moving forward. That was pretty...unwise. But it has been years now. And MP still (at least publicly) hasn't seem to have learned the lesson of what not to say online and in the media. And that's really a shame, because it probably plays into the fact he hasn't ever appeared with DT live again. Had he kept his mouth shut from the get-go, in my opinion, he probably would have played some of these I&W anniversary gigs with the band.
It's really a shame, and I hope whatever is being discussed behind closed doors leads to something positive for everyone involved.
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I can't say too much, but let's just say there's stuff that has happened and is continuing to happen "behind closed doors" as it were. Not everything that is going on has been talked about in the media...
THIS THIS and THIS
There is a lot more to the situation than is public.
Okay, but the thing is, I don't think anyone is concerned about what may or may not have happened behind closed doors. What people are objecting to is one party constantly taking passive-aggressive shots publicly. And that's all it is about.
It's all well and good to say, "but you don't know the whole picture! There is more that happened than you'll ever know." But (1) people are only commenting on what we DO know, and (2) nobody would be commenting at all if Portnoy would let it go and not comment instead of constantly fueling the fire. And like it or not, #2 is HUGE. Nobody on the DT side is commenting. Mike Portnoy IS commenting. If he stopped, it would hardly ever get brought up.
But that's my point. If what you know (or, 'think you know') isn't accurate, then BY DEFINITION it's not fact, and if you're basing your conclusions on something that isn't fact, it's speculation. I don't want to argue with you, Bosk, because I deeply respect your insight, but I kind of think this is proving my point for me. If Noxon and Bobs23 are countering the speculation with a polite and implied "You DO NOT know the whole story" (and I don't know Noxon from Harry Potter, but I trust Bob to know what he's talking about) then we've lost all credibility.
My post - apparently a good Alec Baldwin impersonation, which I take as a compliment, because I love the guy - could possibly be speculation too, but the difference is, I'm not saying I'm definitively right, I'm saying there's an alternative way of looking at it that is equally possible.
I have no argument that what he's saying is passive aggressive, or confrontational. But I also say "SO WHAT?" I can list the number of rock stars that do that on a daily basis, and still be typing by the time DT releases their next album. Sam Hagar (as much as I love him) is STILL talking about Van Halen, and it's been what, 12 years since he was last in the same room with them? Anyone read a Peter Criss interview in the last 10 years that didn't take a swipe at Gene and/or Paul?
As for control freaks, the list is even longer: Tony Banks, Steve Harris, Robert Fripp, Mick Jagger, Gene Simmons, Dio, Fish, Ritchie Blackmore... "control freak" in music is not necessarily a bad thing, is it?
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I don't think it's "either/or". I think it's two guys that don't care about each other that much. All I'm saying is that it's not one-sided, and it's not as if Mike is making shit up to get his name in Blabbermouth.
Relationships usually aren't a matter of either/or. Both parties usually contribute positively and negatively at different times to the relationship, once again, all I'm commenting on are public comments because that's all I know.
People are talking here about "rights" as if they are some absolute thing. They are not. I write a song and put it out there, I have no "rights" per se to that song, save the recording I made, and to the extent that if someone else does the song I can get paid. This is why Def Leppard, Maiden, and Kiss (by way of example) were able to do complete, note-for-note re-recordings of their songs to get out from under record labels. ABSENT SOME SPECIFIC AGREEMENT (very important here, and not something we - or at least I - know for sure about) there would be nothing stopping Mike from staging a concert "Dream Theater from A to Z" and playing EVERY song in the catalogue - whether he was on it or not - and releasing a live CD/DVD/Bluray. WITH THE AGREEMENT, there are likely some things that the parties agreed to that they are held to.
As a lawyer, I can tell you that the idea that two people negotiate a contract and just blindly follow it with no changes, no discussions, no modifications (formal or otherwise) is naïve and not reflective of the real world. Time changes. Leverage changes. Intent (of the parties) changes. Hell, it could be as simple as just poor drafting (the language doesn't accurately reflect the intent of the parties; it happens every day). Maybe the parties were worried about Mike forming Dreams Theatres (spelling intentional) and be - like QR, Great White and Ratt - a competing entity. And the language was formed around that. We can't tell anything about that without the agreements. All I'm going on is Mike's comment that he can/will not release a DVD because of "drama" from DT. Whether that is contractual enforcement, or carping or bluffing on Mike's part, none of us know. But it DOES imply that DT didn't say "Hey, Mike, rest easy; if this REALLY IS a one-off, release your DVDs, give us 10% net, and we're good." That's all I'm saying.
That's a lot of speculation. Aren't you always the one that gets on people about signing or agreeing to a contractual obligation and then wanting out? I've seen you praise the sanctity of student loans as a contractual obligation that people willingly enter, so they shouldn't be allowed to just be forgiven of that debt. Doesn't the same apply to Mike? He willingly left the band, negotiations occurred around that, and everyone moved on (except MP I guess). So yeah, he might want things to be different now, but that doesn't change his responsibility to uphold whatever the agreed upon contractual obligations were.
Regardless, we have no clue what agreements were made, you are just speculating off a random passive aggressive comment Mike made. Clearly he is free to perform this music, because he is. I'm sure he could release it, but he seems unwilling to work with DT to do that, that is not necessarily DT's fault.
Not sure what you're trying to say, but at the time, none of this was set in stone. I'll grant the argument that yes, by having the "break" conversation, Mike potentially threatened the livelihoods of the others, but that's negotiable; there could have been releases, there could have been new music (Ytsejam or otherwise). And even if there was livelihoods at stake, there's always risk in the world. No one lives (or can live) without ANY risk in this world.
Okay I'll make it clearer. You can't consider MP's livelihood important and not the other guys. You either care about that for them all or you chose not to. Either is fine. You are applying a different standard to MP than you are to the other parties involved, which is kind of the issue with this whole discussion.
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I totally agree with every sentence of this post.
Given that what he said about DT not allowing the Shattered Fortress show is factually wrong, how can you agree with every sentence?
Or are you simply patting him on the back for the parody?
What actually did I have wrong?
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I totally agree with every sentence of this post.
Given that what he said about DT not allowing the Shattered Fortress show is factually wrong, how can you agree with every sentence?
Or are you simply patting him on the back for the parody?
What actually did I have wrong?
DT is allowing the Shattered Fortress.
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I totally agree with every sentence of this post.
Given that what he said about DT not allowing the Shattered Fortress show is factually wrong, how can you agree with every sentence?
Or are you simply patting him on the back for the parody?
What actually did I have wrong?
DT is allowing the Shattered Fortress.
Passively, they are. And legally, they couldn't stop MP from PLAYING those songs anyway. Releasing those shows is another matter, however...
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I'll cherry-pick this first paragraph.
So, when MP left cuz DT called him out on his BS, James may have said something *possibly* negative? So you're saying he's *not* a control freak? And in all these years since MP left he's taken every opportunity to trash DT and DT "fans" and SPECIFICALLY JL and be truly negative and abusive whereas DT has kept quiet and tried to move on but MP, who left, is somehow a victim in all this? So one or two things that *may* be interpreted as negative towards MP is somehow NOT ok but you give MP, who left, with all the trash he has said over the years a free pass?
Whatever; if you're going to "cherry pick" the parts that fit your argument, and ignore that which doesn't, I'm not interested in that. There were three other things that WERE negative.
Plus, your WHOLE position is based SOLELY on that which is public. At what point do Mike or DT have an obligation to sit down and say "Whoa, even though behind closed doors, the other side is being a complete and utterly unreasonable dick, I should probably only concern myself with that which is public, so my fans don't get on my case and jump to unsubstantiated speculative conclusions!"
Can we criticize Mike for airing diry laundry? Perhaps. But that's his deal. He doesn't shy away. That the other side chooses not to is their choice. Some of you seem to think that's a good thing. I personally think it's disingenuous and dickish it's own way. "Silence" isn't necessarily taking the high road.
This is what should be beyond you, man, seriously. It's like those Youtube videos where the bully is being filmed by their buddies who keep taunting their prey who then proceeds to smash the face of the bully and then all of a sudden the friends of the bully are screaming bloody murder and call the cops and all that junk. MP is the bully who keeps talking trash and people just blindly defend him and say the prey is at-fault when they clearly aren't.
O_o
Bad analogy, because in your scenario, there isn't potentially 1000 things behind the scenes that change the game. You're assuming that EVERYTHING in the press/media is the full, truthful, complete story, and there are no mitigating facts.
What we don't see is James continually opening up old wounds like Mike does. Mike needs to let it go and he can't.
It's on Mike.
But he doesn't hold grudges and he's just being honest and doesn't want any more drama so leave Mikey alone!
Look, you don't have to agree with me, that's fine, but don't be a dick about it. That's not at all what I'm saying, and you know it. Sarcasm here is just your version of what you're accusing Mike of (passive aggressive bullying).
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Passively, they are. And legally, they couldn't stop MP from PLAYING those songs anyway. Releasing those shows is another matter, however...
You know they are stopping MP from releasing the shows? Link?
To the best of my knowledge the only "information" we have on the topic is a passive aggressive comment from MP about not wanting to deal with DT in order to release these shows. That tells us nothing other than (1) MP would have to work with DT to release these shows which makes perfect sense because they are DT songs and (2) MP doesn't want to work with them to do that.
Am I missing something?
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I can't say too much, but let's just say there's stuff that has happened and is continuing to happen "behind closed doors" as it were. Not everything that is going on has been talked about in the media...
THIS THIS and THIS
There is a lot more to the situation than is public.
Okay, but the thing is, I don't think anyone is concerned about what may or may not have happened behind closed doors. What people are objecting to is one party constantly taking passive-aggressive shots publicly. And that's all it is about.
It's all well and good to say, "but you don't know the whole picture! There is more that happened than you'll ever know." But (1) people are only commenting on what we DO know, and (2) nobody would be commenting at all if Portnoy would let it go and not comment instead of constantly fueling the fire. And like it or not, #2 is HUGE. Nobody on the DT side is commenting. Mike Portnoy IS commenting. If he stopped, it would hardly ever get brought up.
Exactly what I was going to post. If stuff is happening behind closed doors, great, that's where it can stay and if it does, I can't comment because I'm on the other side of that door.
Except that's the point: a lot of people are doing an awful lot of commenting when they DON'T perhaps know the full story. I don't either and I don't claim I'm right, but I know that there are other explanations - reasonable ones - that don't paint Mike as a passive-aggressive dickhead, and I'm willing to consider them. That's all I'm saying.
I love Mike and will always follow his music but let's not pretend we don't know what was going on between Mike and James. James has a food reason to be upset.
What we don't see is James continually opening up old wounds like Mike does. Mike needs to let it go and he can't.
It's on Mike.
Agreed.
Agreed as well, this seems like it should be logical for most, but I guess it isn't for some.
Why is it logical? What does the publicity have to do with it? Totality of the situation. Look, I'm no fan of the social media by any stretch (just the opposite) but if someone chooses to use it, that's on them. On that I think we agree. But Mike's comments CAN BE passive aggressiveness, but they can also be an implication, for those that like the nuggetz (and Mike is all about the nuggetz as his career has shown), that there is more to the story. I think we're being disingenuous when we read things into DT's silence, but refuse to read ANYTHING other than face-value into Mike's social media statements.
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But that's my point. If what you know (or, 'think you know') isn't accurate, then BY DEFINITION it's not fact, and if you're basing your conclusions on something that isn't fact, it's speculation. I don't want to argue with you, Bosk, because I deeply respect your insight, but I kind of think this is proving my point for me.
No, it actually doesn't prove your point at all. What we "know" is what Mike himself has said. We don't have to speculate about what went on behind the scenes because that is not what we are discussing. What we are discussing is what Mike has said publicly.
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MP is being a "passive-agressive dickhead" as you say by definition because of his outburts on social media. It doesn't matter one bit what is going on behind the scenes that we don't know.
He's the one turning to the public in a very negative manner, that's what matters.
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Passively, they are. And legally, they couldn't stop MP from PLAYING those songs anyway. Releasing those shows is another matter, however...
You know they are stopping MP from releasing the shows? Link?
To the best of my knowledge the only "information" we have on the topic is a passive aggressive comment from MP about not wanting to deal with DT in order to release these shows. That tells us nothing other than (1) MP would have to work with DT to release these shows which makes perfect sense because they are DT songs and (2) MP doesn't want to work with them to do that.
Am I missing something?
Mike -- I believe they CAN stop Mike from releasing the shows because those songs are Dream Theater songs, not Mike Portnoy solo songs. The credits show that. It takes cutting through a lot of red tape to do it (and money).
I took your post as being a bit aggressive toward me. No need to be that way, I have no dog in the race, I don't take "sides." I was just pointing out that bands can routinely cover another band's songs. But when they wish to release that material is when it can get sticky.
It's basic copyright stuff (yes, I'm a lawyer).
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Good choice of a vocalist. The three guitarists though....what is this? Guns N' Roses Circa 2006?
Yeah, because no legendary and so loved by MP himself metal band has three guitar players.. ;)
In all seriousness though, it would be nice to have Rich Henshall playing keyboards in some sections (specially with the symphonic-oriented parts on the SFAM tracks and adding some stuff in the long final section of Repentance)..
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Good choice of a vocalist. The three guitarists though....what is this? Guns N' Roses Circa 2006?
Yeah, because no legendary and so loved by MP himself metal band has three guitar players.. ;)
In all seriousness though, it would be nice to have Rich Henshall playing keyboards in some sections (specially with the symphonic-oriented parts on the SFAM tracks and adding some stuff in the long final section of Repentance)..
I was thinking the same especially with Overture 1928 or finally free would have been good to have Richard play Keyboards but even still they sounded awesome anyway :)
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I don't think it's "either/or". I think it's two guys that don't care about each other that much. All I'm saying is that it's not one-sided, and it's not as if Mike is making shit up to get his name in Blabbermouth.
Relationships usually aren't a matter of either/or. Both parties usually contribute positively and negatively at different times to the relationship, once again, all I'm commenting on are public comments because that's all I know.
We're in agreement here. All I'm saying is that before we comment on Mike's CHARACTER, we should probably consider and caveat that what we know is not only limited, but may be only a small fraction of what is at issue.
That's a lot of speculation. Aren't you always the one that gets on people about signing or agreeing to a contractual obligation and then wanting out? I've seen you praise the sanctity of student loans as a contractual obligation that people willingly enter, so they shouldn't be allowed to just be forgiven of that debt. Doesn't the same apply to Mike? He willingly left the band, negotiations occurred around that, and everyone moved on (except MP I guess). So yeah, he might want things to be different now, but that doesn't change his responsibility to uphold whatever the agreed upon contractual obligations were.
Regardless, we have no clue what agreements were made, you are just speculating off a random passive aggressive comment Mike made. Clearly he is free to perform this music, because he is. I'm sure he could release it, but he seems unwilling to work with DT to do that, that is not necessarily DT's fault.
No, I'm not speculating, because I'm not arguing the POSITION, I'm saying that there are multiple, equally likely positions, and here's one. I'm not at all saying "I'm right", I'm saying before you call Mike a bunch of disparaging names and write off his musical contributions because he's a "dick", that maybe we should consider alternative explanations that don't lead to that conclusion.
As for the other part, fair question, but it's not quite on point. If the person - individually - negotiates a revised deal with their lender, then I'm all for that (I do that a fair amount of the time myself). My beef with the student loan thing was the bullying by politicians to force - by law - the lenders to accept a deal they didn't want to accept. That wasn't a mutual negotiation, that was a bullying tactic that I don't support.
Okay I'll make it clearer. You can't consider MP's livelihood important and not the other guys. You either care about that for them all or you chose not to. Either is fine. You are applying a different standard to MP than you are to the other parties involved, which is kind of the issue with this whole discussion.
Fair point. Can't argue with that.
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This has become a lively thread, allready 43 pages in a short time..lol! The name of this thread should be changed to "Hornets Nest".. :corn
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Passively, they are. And legally, they couldn't stop MP from PLAYING those songs anyway. Releasing those shows is another matter, however...
You know they are stopping MP from releasing the shows? Link?
To the best of my knowledge the only "information" we have on the topic is a passive aggressive comment from MP about not wanting to deal with DT in order to release these shows. That tells us nothing other than (1) MP would have to work with DT to release these shows which makes perfect sense because they are DT songs and (2) MP doesn't want to work with them to do that.
Am I missing something?
I've already covered this generally: absent some specific agreement, he can play any SONG. Like Gilmour plays Comfortably Numb, or better yet, Dweezil was "playing Zappa". But when it comes to a complete work - The Wall, what the Zappa Trust said was the Zappa ouvre, here, arguably, SFAM or the Suite - the rules are different. Again, ABSENT SOME SPECIFIC AGREEMENT.
As for the specific case, there is indication that DT has not blessed a live release of the concert. We don't know why this is - whether it is a contractual block and they are not willing to waive it, or a required approval that they are not willing to grant. But that's the excuse given. And I have a real hard time with the notion of "taking Mike at his word" when it suits your argument (that he's a "passive aggressive dickhead") but when it counters the argument, it's "well, we don't even know if this is even accurate!". We're both speculating here, and I'm open to all interpretations, but one interpretation, supported by some of the statements and actions since September of 2010, is that complete performances of set pieces - be it SFAM, or the Suite - may either be blocked or require the approval of the other party. None of this is unusual. As I said above, I would be completely blown away if Gilmour could legally stage a complete production of The Wall without Roger's explicit approval. here, if you take Mike at face value (which you have to to make your other assertions even remotely valid) is that approval was not granted.
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That is NOT taking Mike at face value, because Mike never said that. What he has said can be taken as an implication that that is the case, but that requires assumption. There has been no indication that there is any sort of block. The block may simply be that he hasn't asked and doesn't want to. It may be that he did ask and was told, "screw you; not only are we withholding our blessing, but we hope you choke on a drumstick during a stick toss onstage and die." Or it could be something in between. We don't know. But you are assuming a lot that hasn't been said by anyone.
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But that's my point. If what you know (or, 'think you know') isn't accurate, then BY DEFINITION it's not fact, and if you're basing your conclusions on something that isn't fact, it's speculation. I don't want to argue with you, Bosk, because I deeply respect your insight, but I kind of think this is proving my point for me.
No, it actually doesn't prove your point at all. What we "know" is what Mike himself has said. We don't have to speculate about what went on behind the scenes because that is not what we are discussing. What we are discussing is what Mike has said publicly.
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MP is being a "passive-agressive dickhead" as you say by definition because of his outburts on social media. It doesn't matter one bit what is going on behind the scenes that we don't know.
He's the one turning to the public in a very negative manner, that's what matters.
I don't at all see how you can willfully ignore the fact that there IS - not "we think", but we KNOW - information that bears on our conclusions.
Why wouldn't you look for as much information as you can to make sure you're correct in your assumptions? It's like saying "Hmm, I'm a huge Ritchie Blackmore fan; I'm going to invest in my life savings to follow Deep Purple around on this last tour" and totally and willfully ignoring that Ritchie left the band two decades ago.
Don't you at all question the validity of drawing a conclusion when you KNOW that you don't have the full story?
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That is NOT taking Mike at face value, because Mike never said that. What he has said can be taken as an implication that that is the case, but that requires assumption. There has been no indication that there is any sort of block. The block may simply be that he hasn't asked and doesn't want to. It may be that he did ask and was told, "screw you; not only are we withholding our blessing, but we hope you choke on a drumstick during a stick toss onstage and die." Or it could be something in between. We don't know. But you are assuming a lot that hasn't been said by anyone.
This may be my bad... I thought he explicitly said that he would not be releasing a live DVD because of "drama from DT". I could have sworn I read that.
For some reason the "choke on a drumstick during a stick toss" made me laugh out loud. I need a hobby. :)
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If what you know (or, 'think you know') isn't accurate, then BY DEFINITION it's not fact, and if you're basing your conclusions on something that isn't fact, it's speculation.
I kind of agree with you that we don't know the situation and therefore shouldn't be saying anything about Portnoy -or judging him- regarding his private life, and this include his past (or probably even current) life with DT..
But the situation we DO know is his commenting on social media.. So we were/are, at least most of us, judging those comments of him, and how they're, at best, poor combinations of words that leave us, the DT fans, and some MP fans too, way too confused, upset or at least uncomfortable..
Moreover, WHY does he feel the need to make those kind of comments?.. Why does he choose to make those cryptic sentences before US?.. With the experience he has on forums and social networks, I'm pretty sure he knows very well what happens when a famous person makes this type of statements... Is that what he wants?..
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Why wouldn't you look for as much information as you can to make sure you're correct in your assumptions? It's like saying "Hmm, I'm a huge Ritchie Blackmore fan; I'm going to invest in my life savings to follow Deep Purple around on this last tour" and totally and willfully ignoring that Ritchie left the band two decades ago.
Don't you at all question the validity of drawing a conclusion when you KNOW that you don't have the full story?
Not applicable here. Those that are drawing conclusions are drawing conclusions based on Mike's own comments. There is no "full story" necessary. What's more, there is no "full story" available, so trying to fill in the blanks requires speculation. But, again, it isn't even necessary to get to that stage because, again, any back story isn't what people are largely commenting on. People are commenting on the fact that he can't help himself from publicly taking shots at his former bandmates. If he "tended his own garden," "stayed in his own lane," or however you want to put it, there wouldn't be anything to comment on. But he doesn't. He airs it out. Why or what might underlie that is irrelevant.
That is NOT taking Mike at face value, because Mike never said that. What he has said can be taken as an implication that that is the case, but that requires assumption. There has been no indication that there is any sort of block. The block may simply be that he hasn't asked and doesn't want to. It may be that he did ask and was told, "screw you; not only are we withholding our blessing, but we hope you choke on a drumstick during a stick toss onstage and die." Or it could be something in between. We don't know. But you are assuming a lot that hasn't been said by anyone.
This may be my bad... I thought he explicitly said that he would not be releasing a live DVD because of "drama from DT". I could have sworn I read that.
He did reference "drama," but we have no idea what that means without speculating. It could mean he has asked and DT withheld consent. It could mean he was told, "Yeah, that's fine. Talk to the lawyers to make sure it is all handled correctly" and he didn't want to be bothered and subjectively felt that, since they used to be like family, he shouldn't have to jump through those hoops. It could mean that he didn't even bother asking because of any number of imagined boogeymen exist in his own mind. It could be any number of things. Again, we just don't know, and you are speculating that his comment means something that is actually attributable to the band.
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Mike -- I believe they CAN stop Mike from releasing the shows because those songs are Dream Theater songs, not Mike Portnoy solo songs. The credits show that. It takes cutting through a lot of red tape to do it (and money).
I took your post as being a bit aggressive toward me. No need to be that way, I have no dog in the race, I don't take "sides." I was just pointing out that bands can routinely cover another band's songs. But when they wish to release that material is when it can get sticky.
It's basic copyright stuff (yes, I'm a lawyer).
Went back and re-read my post, it did sound aggressive, I apologize, I didn't intend for it to come across that way. Sure they probably CAN stop MP from releasing the shows, but we have absolutely no information that they are exercising that power.
Except that's the point: a lot of people are doing an awful lot of commenting when they DON'T perhaps know the full story. I don't either and I don't claim I'm right, but I know that there are other explanations - reasonable ones - that don't paint Mike as a passive-aggressive dickhead, and I'm willing to consider them. That's all I'm saying.
Maybe you and I are commenting on different things then, I'm commenting on MP's public comments.
Why is it logical? What does the publicity have to do with it? Totality of the situation. Look, I'm no fan of the social media by any stretch (just the opposite) but if someone chooses to use it, that's on them. On that I think we agree. But Mike's comments CAN BE passive aggressiveness, but they can also be an implication, for those that like the nuggetz (and Mike is all about the nuggetz as his career has shown), that there is more to the story. I think we're being disingenuous when we read things into DT's silence, but refuse to read ANYTHING other than face-value into Mike's social media statements.
There probably is more to the story, I don't know anything you don't know. Once again, I'm commenting on the publicly available information.
We're in agreement here. All I'm saying is that before we comment on Mike's CHARACTER, we should probably consider and caveat that what we know is not only limited, but may be only a small fraction of what is at issue.
I'm commenting on his character based on what he has done and said publicly in comparison to what the other DT guys have done and said publicly, I think that's totally fair.
No, I'm not speculating, because I'm not arguing the POSITION, I'm saying that there are multiple, equally likely positions, and here's one. I'm not at all saying "I'm right", I'm saying before you call Mike a bunch of disparaging names and write off his musical contributions because he's a "dick", that maybe we should consider alternative explanations that don't lead to that conclusion.
As for the other part, fair question, but it's not quite on point. If the person - individually - negotiates a revised deal with their lender, then I'm all for that (I do that a fair amount of the time myself). My beef with the student loan thing was the bullying by politicians to force - by law - the lenders to accept a deal they didn't want to accept. That wasn't a mutual negotiation, that was a bullying tactic that I don't support.
First off, I don't think I've been disrespectful to MP, I certainly don't think I've called him names, I simply just don't think he's handled the last 7 or so years since the split well. I think he's said a lot of things that make him sound and look bad, I'm certainly not writing off his musical contributions, but I'm also not over-exaggerating those contributions (some here have). Second, I get the student loan thing wasn't a perfect analogy, but you get the point. If MP and DT agreed to something, then that is that. If MP wants to change the terms, he will have to deal with DT to do so and IMO shouldn't complain publicly about having to do so.
I've already covered this generally: absent some specific agreement, he can play any SONG. Like Gilmour plays Comfortably Numb, or better yet, Dweezil was "playing Zappa". But when it comes to a complete work - The Wall, what the Zappa Trust said was the Zappa ouvre, here, arguably, SFAM or the Suite - the rules are different. Again, ABSENT SOME SPECIFIC AGREEMENT.
As for the specific case, there is indication that DT has not blessed a live release of the concert. We don't know why this is - whether it is a contractual block and they are not willing to waive it, or a required approval that they are not willing to grant. But that's the excuse given. And I have a real hard time with the notion of "taking Mike at his word" when it suits your argument (that he's a "passive aggressive dickhead") but when it counters the argument, it's "well, we don't even know if this is even accurate!". We're both speculating here, and I'm open to all interpretations, but one interpretation, supported by some of the statements and actions since September of 2010, is that complete performances of set pieces - be it SFAM, or the Suite - may either be blocked or require the approval of the other party. None of this is unusual. As I said above, I would be completely blown away if Gilmour could legally stage a complete production of The Wall without Roger's explicit approval. here, if you take Mike at face value (which you have to to make your other assertions even remotely valid) is that approval was not granted.
Once again, I've never called MP a "dickhead" so I'll assume you are referring to someone else.
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That is NOT taking Mike at face value, because Mike never said that. What he has said can be taken as an implication that that is the case, but that requires assumption. There has been no indication that there is any sort of block. The block may simply be that he hasn't asked and doesn't want to. It may be that he did ask and was told, "screw you; not only are we withholding our blessing, but we hope you choke on a drumstick during a stick toss onstage and die." Or it could be something in between. We don't know. But you are assuming a lot that hasn't been said by anyone.
This may be my bad... I thought he explicitly said that he would not be releasing a live DVD because of "drama from DT". I could have sworn I read that.
He did reference "drama," but we have no idea what that means without speculating. It could mean he has asked and DT withheld consent. It could mean he was told, "Yeah, that's fine. Talk to the lawyers to make sure it is all handled correctly" and he didn't want to be bothered and subjectively felt that, since they used to be like family, he shouldn't have to jump through those hoops. It could mean that he didn't even bother asking because of any number of imagined boogeymen exist in his own mind. It could be any number of things. Again, we just don't know, and you are speculating that his comment means something that is actually attributable to the band.
Exactly, I was going to post a response but Bosk said it better than I.
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In an attempt to help steer this back to discussion of the tour, what has been the highlight for those of you who have seen it? What song(s) and why? Any particular person's performance stand out?
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THIS IS DTF! WE DON'T STAY ON TOPIC! :rant: :trainwreck:
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THIS IS DTF! WE DON'T STAY ON TOPIC! :rant: :trainwreck:
:rollin
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In an attempt to help steer this back to discussion of the tour, what has been the highlight for those of you who have seen it? What song(s) and why? Any particular person's performance stand out?
I mean The Glass Prison has always been a favorite of mine and to see that open up the show on the boat was awesome. Loved having Daniel out, but not knowing the lyrics well took away from his performance. Ted Leonard on the other hand was, as expected, full out awesome. Loved the band choice, as Haken + Gillette for practical choice is basically what I would have chosen anyway. I will stick by saying however that while I'm glad 3 guitarists were out tackling this, I wish they would have rotated and only had two on stage per song.
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The Glass Prison and Home would probably be my two favs if I had the opportunity to see this. I have been hoping for those two songs in a DT set for a LONG time. They actually played those two songs back to back at a show I attended years ago, but I ended up missing them. >:(
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Talking of back to back, even though I didn't go to the show I'm a little annoyed at how they don't play the entire suite in a row, since that was supposedly the whole point of the saga. I completely understand nobody wants to pass out from exhaustion by playing the whole run from Glass Prison to Root of All Evil, but I would have though there would have been a way to sneak it in a little break, like towards the end of Metropolis, to let the band breathe a little, and then connect This Dying Soul straight into Root (or find musical workarounds since I understand you need a different tuning for those songs).
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Yea, I have to think The Glass Prison will be the highlight for me.
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I think Repentance would have been my favorite if not for MP singing it. But given the way things are, Home seems like it would be really fun.
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Talking of back to back, even though I didn't go to the show I'm a little annoyed at how they don't play the entire suite in a row, since that was supposedly the whole point of the saga. I completely understand nobody wants to pass out from exhaustion by playing the whole run from Glass Prison to Root of All Evil, but I would have though there would have been a way to sneak it in a little break, like towards the end of Metropolis, to let the band breathe a little, and then connect This Dying Soul straight into Root (or find musical workarounds since I understand you need a different tuning for those songs).
It'd sound like this: https://youtu.be/TrZT_EyxXGk?t=1509 The key change is not that big deal as it is the exhaustion IMO..
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I think he means that the key change is a big deal just from the standpoint of the guitarists and bass player having to switch instruments, which I get. Of course, there are workarounds. They could, for example, just digitally modulate that song down through their effects boards, as rumborak explained in another thread, although musicians tend to be loathe to do that for some reason. Or, since they have three guitarists, one of the three could just stop playing during the last section of TDS and switch guitars, and then at the transition point, he jumps back in and starts playing the opening riff of Root while the others switch instruments. It can be done. I guess Mike just preferred to play it the way they are playing it, since it is a suite of separate songs and not one continuous song anyway. :dunno:
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And also they would be cutting up a fragment of song, i.e. the beginning of TRoAE.. Same with the next transition; although there they leave an unnecessary silence between the two songs.. But yeah, Idk, I'm personally fine with whatever choice he makes about the transition and this kind of things... I'm even cool with whatever song he decides to play (as long as is a DT song) so..
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I'll be there in New York and the only thing that would make this set any better for me personally would be the inclusion of Fatal Tragedy, which I think after all these years has become my favorite Dream Theater song and the one I'm most likely to go back to when I'm craving some DT.
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And also they would be cutting up a fragment of song, i.e. the beginning of TRoAE..
The very few first seconds of This Dying Soul are cut anyway to allow Glass Prison to flow seamlessly into it. Do it yourself if you have minimal editing skills, or look for YouTube 'cause I'm sure there must be a video of it - the "real" intro of Root is just meant to flow directly from the last note of This Dying Soul, once you hear them back to back you realize it was meant to be.
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Talking of back to back, even though I didn't go to the show I'm a little annoyed at how they don't play the entire suite in a row, since that was supposedly the whole point of the saga. I completely understand nobody wants to pass out from exhaustion by playing the whole run from Glass Prison to Root of All Evil, but I would have though there would have been a way to sneak it in a little break, like towards the end of Metropolis, to let the band breathe a little, and then connect This Dying Soul straight into Root (or find musical workarounds since I understand you need a different tuning for those songs).
It'd sound like this: https://youtu.be/TrZT_EyxXGk?t=1509 The key change is not that big deal as it is the exhaustion IMO..
Oh yeah, I forgot that they just went right into it like that on the cruise. Cool.
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Ah ok, so they did it! and it sounds pretty cool.
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Talking of back to back, even though I didn't go to the show I'm a little annoyed at how they don't play the entire suite in a row, since that was supposedly the whole point of the saga. I completely understand nobody wants to pass out from exhaustion by playing the whole run from Glass Prison to Root of All Evil, but I would have though there would have been a way to sneak it in a little break, like towards the end of Metropolis, to let the band breathe a little, and then connect This Dying Soul straight into Root (or find musical workarounds since I understand you need a different tuning for those songs).
It'd sound like this: https://youtu.be/TrZT_EyxXGk?t=1509 The key change is not that big deal as it is the exhaustion IMO..
Oh yeah, I forgot that they just went right into it like that on the cruise. Cool.
Yeah, that transition totally works, sounds good to me!
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If what you know (or, 'think you know') isn't accurate, then BY DEFINITION it's not fact, and if you're basing your conclusions on something that isn't fact, it's speculation.
I kind of agree with you that we don't know the situation and therefore shouldn't be saying anything about Portnoy -or judging him- regarding his private life, and this include his past (or probably even current) life with DT..
But the situation we DO know is his commenting on social media.. So we were/are, at least most of us, judging those comments of him, and how they're, at best, poor combinations of words that leave us, the DT fans, and some MP fans too, way too confused, upset or at least uncomfortable..
Moreover, WHY does he feel the need to make those kind of comments?.. Why does he choose to make those cryptic sentences before US?.. With the experience he has on forums and social networks, I'm pretty sure he knows very well what happens when a famous person makes this type of statements... Is that what he wants?..
YES YES YES!! This is what I'm saying. WHY? And some of us just jump to "he's a passive aggressive dickhead" and some of us say "well there's more to the story!" Mike may STILL be wrong, he may STILL be unreasonable, but unless and until we know WHY we can't really say for any certainty. I trust the people telling me I don't have the full story, and so I'm secure enough to say "I can't really tell here." So I prefer not to call someone a "passive aggressive dick" without the full story.
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To be honest, the suite itself doesn't generate a lot of interest for me as it does hearing Dream Theater songs in a looser manner, done almost if not AS good as Dream Theater itself. Watching the YouTube clips, my highlight would probably be Home, but really, I just think MP has done a great job at putting this together.
Hopefully for the NYC crowd (miss my hometown), MP pulls out something very special for everyone. Although I totally expect him to play a DT song or two with his new band when they starting touring. But that's for another thread, of course...
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Why wouldn't you look for as much information as you can to make sure you're correct in your assumptions? It's like saying "Hmm, I'm a huge Ritchie Blackmore fan; I'm going to invest in my life savings to follow Deep Purple around on this last tour" and totally and willfully ignoring that Ritchie left the band two decades ago.
Don't you at all question the validity of drawing a conclusion when you KNOW that you don't have the full story?
Not applicable here. Those that are drawing conclusions are drawing conclusions based on Mike's own comments. There is no "full story" necessary. What's more, there is no "full story" available, so trying to fill in the blanks requires speculation. But, again, it isn't even necessary to get to that stage because, again, any back story isn't what people are largely commenting on. People are commenting on the fact that he can't help himself from publicly taking shots at his former bandmates. If he "tended his own garden," "stayed in his own lane," or however you want to put it, there wouldn't be anything to comment on. But he doesn't. He airs it out. Why or what might underlie that is irrelevant.
So you're saying that the issue is the airing out? I can get behind that. I don't have any beef with that. I personally wouldn't probably be talking about my shit on Twitter. It is what it is, though.
This may be my bad... I thought he explicitly said that he would not be releasing a live DVD because of "drama from DT". I could have sworn I read that.
He did reference "drama," but we have no idea what that means without speculating. It could mean he has asked and DT withheld consent. It could mean he was told, "Yeah, that's fine. Talk to the lawyers to make sure it is all handled correctly" and he didn't want to be bothered and subjectively felt that, since they used to be like family, he shouldn't have to jump through those hoops. It could mean that he didn't even bother asking because of any number of imagined boogeymen exist in his own mind. It could be any number of things. Again, we just don't know, and you are speculating that his comment means something that is actually attributable to the band.
You're right, we don't know. But here's where the rubber meets the road: I'm NOT saying "Mike is RIGHT". I'm saying "we don't know so I give both parties the benefit of the doubt". So if we don't know, how can you (collective) conclude that he's wrong? That's where the other information comes in.
A car pulls into your driveway, driven by a man. Your wife gets out, completely naked, holding a used condom and says, "I can't talk about it now, but there's more to this than it seems". What do you do? Do you say "well, the backstory is irrelevant, and you're naked, with a condom with a man's semen in it, clearly not mine, and I want a divorce."? What if it turns out that the driver is a gay nurse who found your wife after she was abducted and the condom is evidence that she stole so that she could catch the perps? Wouldn't you want the back story?
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Maybe you and I are commenting on different things then, I'm commenting on MP's public comments.
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There probably is more to the story, I don't know anything you don't know. Once again, I'm commenting on the publicly available information.
We KNOW there is more to the story. We KNOW it. That's my point; you can't ignore the facts that don't support your argument. It's public information that there is more to the story.
Once again, I've never called MP a "dickhead" so I'll assume you are referring to someone else.
I'm not referring to any one person specifically, though "passive aggressive" has come up a couple times by multiple people.
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Talking of back to back, even though I didn't go to the show I'm a little annoyed at how they don't play the entire suite in a row, since that was supposedly the whole point of the saga. I completely understand nobody wants to pass out from exhaustion by playing the whole run from Glass Prison to Root of All Evil, but I would have though there would have been a way to sneak it in a little break, like towards the end of Metropolis, to let the band breathe a little, and then connect This Dying Soul straight into Root (or find musical workarounds since I understand you need a different tuning for those songs).
So it's in order, but each song is a stand alone song? Is that it?
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I'll be there in New York and the only thing that would make this set any better for me personally would be the inclusion of Fatal Tragedy, which I think after all these years has become my favorite Dream Theater song and the one I'm most likely to go back to when I'm craving some DT.
I'm there too. Who else is going? Does anyone know what the "VIP" means? Will we have to stand in line long for the doors (for Gene Simmons, similar size place, at 4:00 for a 7:30 show there was almost no line.
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Talking of back to back, even though I didn't go to the show I'm a little annoyed at how they don't play the entire suite in a row, since that was supposedly the whole point of the saga. I completely understand nobody wants to pass out from exhaustion by playing the whole run from Glass Prison to Root of All Evil, but I would have though there would have been a way to sneak it in a little break, like towards the end of Metropolis, to let the band breathe a little, and then connect This Dying Soul straight into Root (or find musical workarounds since I understand you need a different tuning for those songs).
It'd sound like this: https://youtu.be/TrZT_EyxXGk?t=1509 The key change is not that big deal as it is the exhaustion IMO..
Oh yeah, I forgot that they just went right into it like that on the cruise. Cool.
I think He could've done that transition the same amount of times in the intro to Root, just with the full added. It seems abrupt to me, but adding the other parts makes that Riff more like the saga riffs.
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Why wouldn't you look for as much information as you can to make sure you're correct in your assumptions? It's like saying "Hmm, I'm a huge Ritchie Blackmore fan; I'm going to invest in my life savings to follow Deep Purple around on this last tour" and totally and willfully ignoring that Ritchie left the band two decades ago.
Don't you at all question the validity of drawing a conclusion when you KNOW that you don't have the full story?
Not applicable here. Those that are drawing conclusions are drawing conclusions based on Mike's own comments. There is no "full story" necessary. What's more, there is no "full story" available, so trying to fill in the blanks requires speculation. But, again, it isn't even necessary to get to that stage because, again, any back story isn't what people are largely commenting on. People are commenting on the fact that he can't help himself from publicly taking shots at his former bandmates. If he "tended his own garden," "stayed in his own lane," or however you want to put it, there wouldn't be anything to comment on. But he doesn't. He airs it out. Why or what might underlie that is irrelevant.
So you're saying that the issue is the airing out? I can get behind that. I don't have any beef with that. I personally wouldn't probably be talking about my shit on Twitter. It is what it is, though.
Of course that is the issue. He shouldn't be airing that kind of thing out. Whether or not there is some justification or excuse for him to feel that way is irrelevant. It is the fact that he is publicly taking shots at people that is the issue. Man up and handle your business directly with the people involved, or if that's not possible, let it go. Don't take public shots at people and air your garbage, especially in a way that one should know is only likely to be further divisive.
This may be my bad... I thought he explicitly said that he would not be releasing a live DVD because of "drama from DT". I could have sworn I read that.
He did reference "drama," but we have no idea what that means without speculating. It could mean he has asked and DT withheld consent. It could mean he was told, "Yeah, that's fine. Talk to the lawyers to make sure it is all handled correctly" and he didn't want to be bothered and subjectively felt that, since they used to be like family, he shouldn't have to jump through those hoops. It could mean that he didn't even bother asking because of any number of imagined boogeymen exist in his own mind. It could be any number of things. Again, we just don't know, and you are speculating that his comment means something that is actually attributable to the band.
You're right, we don't know. But here's where the rubber meets the road: I'm NOT saying "Mike is RIGHT". I'm saying "we don't know so I give both parties the benefit of the doubt". So if we don't know, how can you (collective) conclude that he's wrong? That's where the other information comes in.
A car pulls into your driveway, driven by a man. Your wife gets out, completely naked, holding a used condom and says, "I can't talk about it now, but there's more to this than it seems". What do you do? Do you say "well, the backstory is irrelevant, and you're naked, with a condom with a man's semen in it, clearly not mine, and I want a divorce."? What if it turns out that the driver is a gay nurse who found your wife after she was abducted and the condom is evidence that she stole so that she could catch the perps? Wouldn't you want the back story?
That analogy is completely inapplicable to what we are talking about. I don't care what "drama" he is talking about, and nobody else in the thread as far as I can remember does either. YOU are the only one making a judgment about what that drama means. I don't really care what he's referring to, and I'm not making any value judgments.
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And also they would be cutting up a fragment of song, i.e. the beginning of TRoAE..
The very few first seconds of This Dying Soul are cut anyway to allow Glass Prison to flow seamlessly into it. Do it yourself if you have minimal editing skills, or look for YouTube 'cause I'm sure there must be a video of it - the "real" intro of Root is just meant to flow directly from the last note of This Dying Soul, once you hear them back to back you realize it was meant to be.
I like to think I have.. In fact, I just made you guys think that it happened something that really never happened! :lol.. They didn't do that transition on the cruise (as neither they are doing it now), as you can check here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DwgK_TLx7ig
I also added the broken glass sound effect in between the TGP/TDS transition https://youtu.be/TrZT_EyxXGk?t=823, and some other little nuggets I felt free to include here and there..
About the TGP/TDS transition itself, yeah, they are kinda cutting the start of TDS, or the ending of TGP, depending on how you see it, because is the very same arrangement anyway..
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I'll be there in New York and the only thing that would make this set any better for me personally would be the inclusion of Fatal Tragedy, which I think after all these years has become my favorite Dream Theater song and the one I'm most likely to go back to when I'm craving some DT.
I'm there too. Who else is going? Does anyone know what the "VIP" means? Will we have to stand in line long for the doors (for Gene Simmons, similar size place, at 4:00 for a 7:30 show there was almost no line.
I am going and bought a VIP ticket, the VIP as far as I know only means you have access to the balcony. The balcony in these small ballrooms is a clutch spot to watch if you aren't in the first couple rows on the floor. I thought it was worth it for only like $15 more.
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Why wouldn't you look for as much information as you can to make sure you're correct in your assumptions? It's like saying "Hmm, I'm a huge Ritchie Blackmore fan; I'm going to invest in my life savings to follow Deep Purple around on this last tour" and totally and willfully ignoring that Ritchie left the band two decades ago.
Don't you at all question the validity of drawing a conclusion when you KNOW that you don't have the full story?
Not applicable here. Those that are drawing conclusions are drawing conclusions based on Mike's own comments. There is no "full story" necessary. What's more, there is no "full story" available, so trying to fill in the blanks requires speculation. But, again, it isn't even necessary to get to that stage because, again, any back story isn't what people are largely commenting on. People are commenting on the fact that he can't help himself from publicly taking shots at his former bandmates. If he "tended his own garden," "stayed in his own lane," or however you want to put it, there wouldn't be anything to comment on. But he doesn't. He airs it out. Why or what might underlie that is irrelevant.
So you're saying that the issue is the airing out? I can get behind that. I don't have any beef with that. I personally wouldn't probably be talking about my shit on Twitter. It is what it is, though.
Of course that is the issue. He shouldn't be airing that kind of thing out. Whether or not there is some justification or excuse for him to feel that way is irrelevant. It is the fact that he is publicly taking shots at people that is the issue. Man up and handle your business directly with the people involved, or if that's not possible, let it go. Don't take public shots at people and air your garbage, especially in a way that one should know is only likely to be further divisive.
Don't ever let anyone tell you the debate here is meaningless. It took us a while, but I at least understand that point and don't disagree with it. Preferably, none of this would be handled via social media. :)
That analogy is completely inapplicable to what we are talking about. I don't care what "drama" he is talking about, and nobody else in the thread as far as I can remember does either. YOU are the only one making a judgment about what that drama means. I don't really care what he's referring to, and I'm not making any value judgments.
Well, I'm not making a judgment about what it means, just that it's there. And I thought my analogy was pretty spot on. :)
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I'll be there in New York and the only thing that would make this set any better for me personally would be the inclusion of Fatal Tragedy, which I think after all these years has become my favorite Dream Theater song and the one I'm most likely to go back to when I'm craving some DT.
I'm there too. Who else is going? Does anyone know what the "VIP" means? Will we have to stand in line long for the doors (for Gene Simmons, similar size place, at 4:00 for a 7:30 show there was almost no line.
I am going and bought a VIP ticket, the VIP as far as I know only means you have access to the balcony. The balcony in these small ballrooms is a clutch spot to watch if you aren't in the first couple rows on the floor. I thought it was worth it for only like $15 more.
Can you go back and forth if you want?
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Did someone call him a dickhead or a dick? I didn't read that, but I did skim a bit.
Calling him passive aggressive is fine. It's not an insult, it's an observation. Dude is being passive aggressive.
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Did someone call him a dickhead or a dick? I didn't read that, but I did skim a bit.
I don't think so. But even if they did, I STILL don't think any backstory is necessary to form that conclusion. Some people can spot a dick a mile away.
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I'll be there in New York and the only thing that would make this set any better for me personally would be the inclusion of Fatal Tragedy, which I think after all these years has become my favorite Dream Theater song and the one I'm most likely to go back to when I'm craving some DT.
I'm there too. Who else is going? Does anyone know what the "VIP" means? Will we have to stand in line long for the doors (for Gene Simmons, similar size place, at 4:00 for a 7:30 show there was almost no line.
I am going and bought a VIP ticket, the VIP as far as I know only means you have access to the balcony. The balcony in these small ballrooms is a clutch spot to watch if you aren't in the first couple rows on the floor. I thought it was worth it for only like $15 more.
Can you go back and forth if you want?
Yea you should be able to.
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Some people can spot a dick a mile away.
Can you go back and forth if you want?
:heybaby:
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:|
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And also they would be cutting up a fragment of song, i.e. the beginning of TRoAE..
The very few first seconds of This Dying Soul are cut anyway to allow Glass Prison to flow seamlessly into it. Do it yourself if you have minimal editing skills, or look for YouTube 'cause I'm sure there must be a video of it - the "real" intro of Root is just meant to flow directly from the last note of This Dying Soul, once you hear them back to back you realize it was meant to be.
I like to think I have.. In fact, I just made you guys think that it happened something that really never happened! :lol.. They didn't do that transition on the cruise (as neither they are doing it now), as you can check here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DwgK_TLx7ig
I also added the broken glass sound effect in between the TGP/TDS transition https://youtu.be/TrZT_EyxXGk?t=823, and some other little nuggets I felt free to include here and there..
About the TGP/TDS transition itself, yeah, they are kinda cutting the start of TDS, or the ending of TGP, depending on how you see it, because is the very same arrangement anyway..
Ok, you definitively have more than minimal skills :biggrin: :tup
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What actually did I have wrong?
You didn't take a big steaming shit on MP. Defending him in any fashion appears to be frowned upon.
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And also they would be cutting up a fragment of song, i.e. the beginning of TRoAE..
The very few first seconds of This Dying Soul are cut anyway to allow Glass Prison to flow seamlessly into it. Do it yourself if you have minimal editing skills, or look for YouTube 'cause I'm sure there must be a video of it - the "real" intro of Root is just meant to flow directly from the last note of This Dying Soul, once you hear them back to back you realize it was meant to be.
I like to think I have.. In fact, I just made you guys think that it happened something that really never happened! :lol.. They didn't do that transition on the cruise (as neither they are doing it now), as you can check here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DwgK_TLx7ig
I also added the broken glass sound effect in between the TGP/TDS transition https://youtu.be/TrZT_EyxXGk?t=823, and some other little nuggets I felt free to include here and there..
About the TGP/TDS transition itself, yeah, they are kinda cutting the start of TDS, or the ending of TGP, depending on how you see it, because is the very same arrangement anyway..
Ok, you definitively have more than minimal skills :biggrin: :tup
Hahaa, thanks!.. :coolio
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Sorry for not replying to all the
bullshitdiscussion of the past few pages. I just came home from seeing the Shattered Fortress a second time. First time was Barcelona at the Be Prog! My Friend festival, this one was Tilburg, at the oft-played 013.
I liked tonight's show far better than the first, although it also reinforced some not-so-positive thoughts I had abot this whole thing as well. I enjoyed it though, and had fun, and that's the most important part. I might type out a more detailed post when I'm not on my phone.
Oh, for the record, there were about 6 video cameras filming, both on and off-stage.
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Its hard to pick a highlight from the show but since Finally Free is my 2nd favourite DT song will probably go with that but Home and Dance are close.
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Oh, for the record, there were about 6 video cameras filming, both on and off-stage.
I am both excited and confused, like watching a 90's Johnny Depp movie.
Didn't MP state there would be no official release? I hope to Xenu that I imagined that one cause this would be an immediate buy for me.
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From the videos I have seen the whole 12SS was awesome minus Repentance which Mike should just let Ross sing.
Was not impressed with the keytar solo or Eric Gillette singing part of the Mirror.
Was actually kind of surprised that Ross didn't sound so hot at the end of Finally Free. Maybe the high vocals were a bit much after a full show or maybe his voice just isn't cut out for that type of melody.
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Sorry for not replying to all the bullshitdiscussion of the past few pages. I just came home from seeing the Shattered Fortress a second time. First time was Barcelona at the Be Prog! My Friend festival, this one was Tilburg, at the oft-played 013.
I liked tonight's show far better than the first, although it also reinforced some not-so-positive thoughts I had abot this whole thing as well. I enjoyed it though, and had fun, and that's the most important part. I might type out a more detailed post when I'm not on my phone.
Oh, for the record, there were about 6 video cameras filming, both on and off-stage.
What was better about it? The longer set? Or was it just a better performance? As to the latter, that's the problem with very limited tours--because the string of dates is so short, bands sometimes can't justify extended pre-tour rehearsal time and don't have as many dates on the road to gel and become a tight unit. Not sure if that is the case here or not, but they sounded pretty tight on the first night, from what I heard.
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I totally agree with every sentence of this post.
Given that what he said about DT not allowing the Shattered Fortress show is factually wrong, how can you agree with every sentence?
Or are you simply patting him on the back for the parody?
What actually did I have wrong?
DT is allowing the Shattered Fortress.
This.
Bottom line, Stadler: you keep talking about how we don't know and we don't know that, but you are bending over backwards to give Portnoy every benefit of the doubt, while seemingly assuming the worst about Dream Theater, which is bizarre since DT has repeatedly taken the high road, while their ex-drummer often has not.
I know you are "Team Mike," as well as a lawyer who sometimes has to defend the indefensible, as you are doing here, but a tinny tiny bit of objectivity on your part would be a welcome change. Just saying... :)
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Its well documented about the breakup. There is no confusion. Mike forced the break up.
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We KNOW there is more to the story. We KNOW it. That's my point; you can't ignore the facts that don't support your argument. It's public information that there is more to the story.
You keep saying this and you're right, we KNOW there's more to the story.
What you don't seem realize is that whatever is "actually" happening is irrelevant to what's we are discussing. Behind the scenes they could be best friends or mortal enemies, we don't know, and whatever it is has no weight at all in what we are discussing.
What we DO KNOW is how MP is representing himself and the situation to be on social media and THAT is where the problem is. He's representing himself as a vengeful, spiteful, grudge-holding, and abusive person and taking every opportunity to trash DT and the situation that he himself is the sole cause of so what else are people supposed to think? Just when we think that maybe he's going to finally get over it he doubles-down on the victim card and plays the blame game some more.
How we can possibly read anything into the situation beyond what is public knowledge... and that public knowledge is that MP won't stop trashing and being abusive towards DT and DT have been adults and tried to move on and have been quiet and professional about the whole situation but they, and us, can't move on cuz MP just can't seem to let it go.
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Wait...
Mike Portnoy isn't in Dream Theater anymore?
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Wait...
Mike Portnoy isn't in Dream Theater anymore?
Well, he sort of is. He is calling it Queen Theater and Geoff Tate is the vocalist. They're currently touring in support of their rock opera Scenes from a Mindcrime.
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Wait...
Mike Portnoy isn't in Dream Theater anymore?
Mike Portnoy... jewish?
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Some people can spot a dick a mile away.
YUCK! I am not a fan of Spotted Dick at all. It's downright disgustingly bland. Although a good bread pudding can be delightful if properly prepared.
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Now we're talking.
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Wait...
Mike Portnoy isn't in Dream Theater anymore?
Well, he sort of is. He is calling it Queen Theater and Geoff Tate is the vocalist. They're currently touring in support of their rock opera Scenes from a Mindcrime.
I thought it was supposed to be Dreamsryche.. :yarr
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Oh, for the record, there were about 6 video cameras filming, both on and off-stage.
I'm still convinced that this will somehow some day see the light of day. It's too good an opportunity to let it pass.
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Maybe he needs to revisit some of the later steps - he's got a reminder every night of the tour.
Yep. Whatever happened to "kindness - it's not that hard", "self-restraint of tongue and pen" and "willingness to understand?"
Have you never heard the hidden bonus track on the Vietnamese import CD of BC&SL?
It's an epilogue to the 12 steps called "XIII - Ah, Screw It" where the person just decides to ignore everything they just went through and go back to abusing people.
:lol :clap:
The one that usually get me is "Sometimes you gotta be wrong and learn from mistakes, I live with serenity now, not self righteous hate".
Mike -- I believe they CAN stop Mike from releasing the shows because those songs are Dream Theater songs, not Mike Portnoy solo songs. The credits show that. It takes cutting through a lot of red tape to do it (and money).
I took your post as being a bit aggressive toward me. No need to be that way, I have no dog in the race, I don't take "sides." I was just pointing out that bands can routinely cover another band's songs. But when they wish to release that material is when it can get sticky.
It's basic copyright stuff (yes, I'm a lawyer).
The only similar example I can think of is Roger Waters and Pink Floyd, Waters kept touring and releasing Pink Floyd songs after he left and they also continued to tour and release songs he wrote while in the band, which was most of the critically acclaimed stuff. I never heard about a copyright feud between them, except the one they went to court for, the band name.
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Oh, for the record, there were about 6 video cameras filming, both on and off-stage.
I'm still convinced that this will somehow some day see the light of day. It's too good an opportunity to let it pass.
Well, Mike surely is one capable of planning ahead, better to record this and let it sit in his vault, than eventually patching things up with DT down the line and realize "...oh, fuck, I didn't record it 'cause I thought they'd never allow for a special release"
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What actually did I have wrong?
You didn't take a big steaming shit on MP. Defending him in any fashion appears to be frowned upon.
Well, if that's what you think, you've so grossly missed the point that I don't know what to tell you.
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Oh, for the record, there were about 6 video cameras filming, both on and off-stage.
I'm still convinced that this will somehow some day see the light of day. It's too good an opportunity to let it pass.
Well, Mike surely is one capable of planning ahead, better to record this and let it sit in his vault, than eventually patching things up with DT down the line and realize "...oh, fuck, I didn't record it 'cause I thought they'd never allow for a special release"
That's exactly what I was thinking, honestly, if I was MP I'd do the same thing. With technology nowadays it costs a lot less to have a couple cameras set up and just record it in case he can release it. I'm assuming they are touring with a digital mixing desk that is probably recording each audio track anyway, so he might as well prepare for the best case scenario (for him that is).
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I totally agree with every sentence of this post.
Given that what he said about DT not allowing the Shattered Fortress show is factually wrong, how can you agree with every sentence?
Or are you simply patting him on the back for the parody?
What actually did I have wrong?
DT is allowing the Shattered Fortress.
This.
Bottom line, Stadler: you keep talking about how we don't know and we don't know that, but you are bending over backwards to give Portnoy every benefit of the doubt, while seemingly assuming the worst about Dream Theater, which is bizarre since DT has repeatedly taken the high road, while their ex-drummer often has not.
I know you are "Team Mike," as well as a lawyer who sometimes has to defend the indefensible, as you are doing here, but a tinny tiny bit of objectivity on your part would be a welcome change. Just saying... :)
I see it differently. To me, "silence" is not the high road. And I'm not "assuming" anything, that's the point. I'm not at ALL saying MIKE IS RIGHT, and I'm not calling DT "passive aggressive dicks". I'm not making ANY judgments; I'm saying "I don't have enough information to MAKE judgments". How much more objective can I get?
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What we DO KNOW is how MP is representing himself and the situation to be on social media and THAT is where the problem is. He's representing himself as a vengeful, spiteful, grudge-holding, and abusive person and taking every opportunity to trash DT and the situation that he himself is the sole cause of so what else are people supposed to think? Just when we think that maybe he's going to finally get over it he doubles-down on the victim card and plays the blame game some more.
One, that is a GROSS overstatement; "I have reconciled with three of the members"... OH MY GOSH! How abusive and cruel! The heartlessness to say he has reconciled! (I kid a little to lighten the mood, but still...). I strongly disagree, though, that the "whys" are important here. I'm not calling YOU this (or any one person) but I believe - in any context, not just Mike - that if you draw a conclusion on certain information, and knowingly and with intent ignore other information, that is ignorant. It just is. We KNOW there is more to the story. Without knowing what that is, how can we conclude that it "doesn't matter to the conclusion"?
How we can possibly read anything into the situation beyond what is public knowledge... and that public knowledge is that MP won't stop trashing and being abusive towards DT and DT have been adults and tried to move on and have been quiet and professional about the whole situation but they, and us, can't move on cuz MP just can't seem to let it go.
Again, your subjective conclusion on "trashing" and "abusive"; two, "silence" doesn't mean "adult", "mature" or "high road" (Bill Cosby was silent too for a fairly long time after he was "abused" and "trashed" in the media). You're ignoring information that IS public knowledge, i.e. that there IS more to the story. It baffles me why you are so adamant to trash MIKE without any sense of fairness to the situation. I am Team Mike, and proud of it, but when he's an ass, I'll say so. Some of what he's saying COULD BE that he's an ass; but I KNOW that he has more info than I do. Why is it so hard for some of you to concede that you don't know everything and that you don't have complete information?
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What actually did I have wrong?
You didn't take a big steaming shit on MP. Defending him in any fashion appears to be frowned upon.
Well, if that's what you think, you've so grossly missed the point that I don't know what to tell you.
Not you personally, but for some people here, that's pretty much the case.
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What actually did I have wrong?
You didn't take a big steaming shit on MP. Defending him in any fashion appears to be frowned upon.
Well, if that's what you think, you've so grossly missed the point that I don't know what to tell you.
Not you personally, but for some people here, that's pretty much the case.
No, that's a bunch of crap. He is being criticized for what he has said/done publicly, and that is fair game. And many of those same people are also praising him or have praised him for what he has said/done publicly that is good. Your "team Mike" membership card is blinding you to the facts.
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I see it differently. To me, "silence" is not the high road. And I'm not "assuming" anything, that's the point. I'm not at ALL saying MIKE IS RIGHT, and I'm not calling DT "passive aggressive dicks". I'm not making ANY judgments; I'm saying "I don't have enough information to MAKE judgments". How much more objective can I get?
You literally referred to yourself as being on "team Mike"...
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I can't say too much, but let's just say there's stuff that has happened and is continuing to happen "behind closed doors" as it were. Not everything that is going on has been talked about in the media...
THIS THIS and THIS
There is a lot more to the situation than is public. One side has put up an iron wall. I do wish the other side would at least put up a picket fence(at least on things pertaining to this subject).
Since I am basically confined to my couch for a few days, I have gone back a few pages and found this post. If there are two guys qualified to speak to this, it's Bob and Kim.
I have a few thoughts.
If I am going to guess what you guys are talking about, it would be that MP is trying to get permission to release a Shattered Fortress show.
If DT actually stone wall this effort, that would disappoint me.
I read MP's comments as a source of frustration, not as being a jerk.
Taking the high road does not always mean you are taking the High Road.
Mike, unless you are legally bound not to, just play A Change Of Seasons if you really want to.
Personally, I am not interested in seeing Haken cover DT. I'm sure the shows are performed well, and seeing MP play is great.
DT still have yet to replace MP's personality on stage. That is NOT a shot at MM. In fact, MM still shows more emotion and fun than the rest of the guys.
I miss watching and listening to MP. He has done nothing of interest to me since leaving DT.
DT has released 3 really good albums, and love it or hate it, The Astonishing was a huge gamble, and I totally respect that.
Other than the Happy Holidays 2013, which was cool, DT has really done nothing else "extra" that the fans had grown accustomed to under MP's tenure. Yes, two live albums. Cool. Except for the one tour that you couldn't film or take pictures at, right?
My Percocet is wearing off...time for another! ;D
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Wait...
Mike Portnoy isn't in Dream Theater anymore?
Well, he sort of is. He is calling it Queen Theater and Geoff Tate is the vocalist. They're currently touring in support of their rock opera Scenes from a Mindcrime.
:rollin Some people can spot a dick a mile away.
YUCK! I am not a fan of Spotted Dick at all. It's downright disgustingly bland. Although a good bread pudding can be delightful if properly prepared.
:rollin
Oh, for the record, there were about 6 video cameras filming, both on and off-stage.
I'm still convinced that this will somehow some day see the light of day. It's too good an opportunity to let it pass.
Nice, even if we don't get a recording, it's good to know that they are still capturing this. That gives hope that one day it gets released.
My Percocet is wearing off...time for another! ;D
:rollin
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My Percocet is wearing off...time for another! ;D
:rollin
I had a double hernia yesterday. I figured I'd read through this thread to re-live the experience.
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:lol hope all is well man!
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If there are two guys qualified to speak to this, it's Bob and Kim.
Yup. But beyond that, we STILL don't know anything more. And based on what the criticisms are that are the focus of this thread (not talking about all the idiots on Facebook, YouTube or whatever who bash anything and anything related to Mike Portnoy, which is unfair and stupid), it doesn't really matter. Whatever went on behind the scenes, that isn't really relevant to what we are discussing here.
If I am going to guess what you guys are talking about, it would be that MP is trying to get permission to release a Shattered Fortress show.
If DT actually stone wall this effort, that would disappoint me.
As to the first point, that is a HUGE assumption, and we don't really have any information to base that on. As to the second, if DT is "stonewalling" the effort to film/release this, there may be perfectly legitimate reasons why. There might not. But there might. We just don't know. I would resist any kneejerk reactions because, unlike the issue of MP's public shots at DT, something like this would need context.
I read MP's comments as a source of frustration, not as being a jerk.
Fair enough. You are entitled to read it that way. Others read it much differently, and that's valid too.
Mike, unless you are legally bound not to, just play A Change Of Seasons if you really want to.
Absolutely.
Personally, I am not interested in seeing Haken cover DT. I'm sure the shows are performed well, and seeing MP play is great.
Well, okay, but I think you are unintentionally trivializing this project by reducing it to "Haken covering DT." It's a Mike Portnoy-led project, and by all accounts, the performance is total quality. For me, despite my ever-growing distaste for Mike Portnoy the individual, I would LOVE to see this if it came near me.
DT still have yet to replace MP's personality on stage. That is NOT a shot at MM. In fact, MM still shows more emotion and fun than the rest of the guys.
I get where you are coming from. I think what MM brings to the table is just as energetic and fun. It's just different. I honestly can't say which I prefer because they both bring lots of cool things to the table. But I will say that the rest of the band has looked more energized and happy onstage since MM joined than at least the two tour cycles before that, and I think that adds tremendous value.
I miss watching and listening to MP. He has done nothing of interest to me since leaving DT.
Mixed bag for me. He has done some great work and some work I have no interest in. But the stuff I have liked the most (Neal Morse, Transatlantic) is the same stuff he was doing as side projects when he was still WITH DT, so...
DT has released 3 really good albums, and love it or hate it, The Astonishing was a huge gamble, and I totally respect that.
Yup.
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Can't we all just agree that regardless of the underlying facts Mike can tend to act in a petty and passive-aggressive manner when speaking publicly? I mean, this isn't something that started when he left the band; it's always been true.
Personally (I haven't always felt this way), I find a lot of the stuff he says to be entertaining and amusing, and compared to some of his peers in the music industry who have done some truly odious things, I don't really think it's a big deal. But I get why it bothers people.
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Yup. But beyond that, we STILL don't know anything more. And based on what the criticisms are that are the focus of this thread (not talking about all the idiots on Facebook, YouTube or whatever who bash anything and anything related to Mike Portnoy, which is unfair and stupid), it doesn't really matter. Whatever went on behind the scenes, that isn't really relevant to what we are discussing here.
Sure, probably belongs in another thread. But since Bob and Kim posted those posts in this thread, I figure there is some relevancy to the discussion.
As to the first point, that is a HUGE assumption, and we don't really have any information to base that on. As to the second, if DT is "stonewalling" the effort to film/release this, there may be perfectly legitimate reasons why. There might not. But there might. We just don't know. I would resist any kneejerk reactions because, unlike the issue of MP's public shots at DT, something like this would need context.
Yes, totally speculative. This was just the first thing that came to mind, especially with them posting in this thread. I wouldn't refer it as a kneejerk reaction. Just thinking about it, that's all.
Well, okay, but I think you are unintentionally trivializing this project by reducing it to "Haken covering DT." It's a Mike Portnoy-led project, and by all accounts, the performance is total quality. For me, despite my ever-growing distaste for Mike Portnoy the individual, I would LOVE to see this if it came near me.
Yes, perhaps I am. I hope MP gets whatever it is he wants to get out of these shows. I really do. I have no ill will for these shows. I love and miss MP. If this came to Boston, I would have to consider it, but the stars would have to be perfectly aligned for it..ie weekend, not a late club show, etc..
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Yes, perhaps I am. I hope MP gets whatever it is he wants to get out of these shows. I really do. I have no ill will for these shows. I love and miss MP. If this came to Boston, I would have to consider it, but the stars would have to be perfectly aligned for it..ie weekend, not a late club show, etc..
And no Percocet :rollin
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:lol
Definitely not!
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Personally (I haven't always felt this way), I find a lot of the stuff he says to be entertaining and amusing, and compared to some of his peers in the music industry who have done some truly odious things, I don't really think it's a big deal. But I get why it bothers people.
Ah, that's for sure. He seriously needs a lesson or two from a PR manager on how to behave on social media, but nothing he's ever done or said made me seriously cringe in utter contempt. He oozes enthusiasm for what he does and it clearly transpires in his messages.
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Sorry for not replying to all the bullshitdiscussion of the past few pages. I just came home from seeing the Shattered Fortress a second time. First time was Barcelona at the Be Prog! My Friend festival, this one was Tilburg, at the oft-played 013.
I liked tonight's show far better than the first, although it also reinforced some not-so-positive thoughts I had abot this whole thing as well. I enjoyed it though, and had fun, and that's the most important part. I might type out a more detailed post when I'm not on my phone.
Oh, for the record, there were about 6 video cameras filming, both on and off-stage.
What was better about it? The longer set? Or was it just a better performance? As to the latter, that's the problem with very limited tours--because the string of dates is so short, bands sometimes can't justify extended pre-tour rehearsal time and don't have as many dates on the road to gel and become a tight unit. Not sure if that is the case here or not, but they sounded pretty tight on the first night, from what I heard.
I think the whole show worked a lot better in an inside venue than on a stage outside at a festival. The visuals and lighting added a lot to the overall quality of the show. Also, seeing Home was a great addition and a song that was unfortunately absent from the Barcelona gig. Mr. portnoy himself seemed even more enthusiastic than usual, perhaps because this was at the 013 venue, a place he has played numerous times with lots of different bands. We were called 'the greatest prog audience in Europe' (I wonder how many others there are :neverusethis: ) and he held a long speech about different times he had been in the Netherlands.
I think it's a combination of ambience and setlist. The total package came out better and I do believe the band was a little tighter as well, even though I've seen a couple screw-ups, but that sort of stuff adds to the 'live'-factor for me.
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We were called 'the greatest prog audience in Europe' (I wonder how many others there are :neverusethis: )
Why, Milan in Italy of course! :metal :biggrin:
(And he said so recently on FB! Also, I still remember his shoutout from the mic at the end of a DT show: "Milano!!!! the best, as always!")
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So, he lied to us? :'(
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Glad to hear that the shows are getting better and the band tighter. It is such a huge bummer this isn't coming to the U.S. really, aside from NYC and Atlanta. All of you in Europe and across the world getting it are very lucky. Here's hoping the footage (thanks for confirming he is recording this Elite) makes it out to the rest of us at some point.
Still crossing my fingers that NYC gets "A Change of Seasons" and/or some other special surprises. I won't be there, but friends are going!
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A U.S. tour would be nice. I think there's a bigger market in Europe. They seem to have a much bigger appreciation for this kind of music over there, same with Asia and South America. The U.S. is too mainstream..
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A U.S. tour would be nice. I think there's a bigger market in Europe. They seem to have a much bigger appreciation for this kind of music over there, same with Asia and South America. The U.S. is too mainstream..
Yup, totally agreed. Seemed like MP had to work hard just to get the NYC date, which isn't a huge venue and isn't even sold out. ProgPower makes tons of sense though.
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I see it differently. To me, "silence" is not the high road. And I'm not "assuming" anything, that's the point. I'm not at ALL saying MIKE IS RIGHT, and I'm not calling DT "passive aggressive dicks". I'm not making ANY judgments; I'm saying "I don't have enough information to MAKE judgments". How much more objective can I get?
You literally referred to yourself as being on "team Mike"...
And I don't apologize for that. That means I like his music. That means that "whatever it was" that he brought to DT was in large part the "whatever" that made them a top three band for me. That doesn't at all mean I can't be objective. I never once said that "he was right" or that "I think he's right no matter what".
All I'm saying is that a label like "passive aggressive" is subject to the circumstances. What is passive aggressive in one context is not necessarily so if you change the underlying facts. And there's NEVER any call - whether you're Team Mike, or Team DT or Team Beiber - to call people "dicks". That's just personal.
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Personally (I haven't always felt this way), I find a lot of the stuff he says to be entertaining and amusing, and compared to some of his peers in the music industry who have done some truly odious things, I don't really think it's a big deal. But I get why it bothers people.
Ah, that's for sure. He seriously needs a lesson or two from a PR manager on how to behave on social media, but nothing he's ever done or said made me seriously cringe in utter contempt. He oozes enthusiasm for what he does and it clearly transpires in his messages.
That's kind of where I'm at, ultimately. I think Twitter is dumb to start with, and you get what you deserve by putting your complex human emotions out there in 140 characters or less.
I just wish people would curtail the psychoanalysis and the name-calling until the whole story is out. If that's "bias" so be it.
(And for your benefit, Bosk, I made a point of saying "Team Mike" because there's another site out there - you may be familiar with it - that, in the wake of Mike's leaving DT, were absolutely BRUTAL to him. I mean, beyond the pale. Anti-Semitic. Homophobic. One line of reasoning even posited him as an incestuous child molester. It was absolutely disgusting, and all rationalized by, and I'm paraphrasing a little, but I'm not at all far off, "his passive aggressive behavior in the wake of HIS leaving DT".)
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I am team both but really think Mike needs to think before posting online.
Answering: Only one
To a post asking whether Mike hates canadians
That is soo unneccesary.
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Back to the music... I'm really nervous about the vocals. My opinion of LaBrie is akin to Bosk's for MP; I think his voice is crucial and integral to the sound of DT (and part of the reason I even got into the band) though my personal feelings for the guy are not all that high (and I don't think he's really a good front man at all. "Let's RAAAAAAWWWWWKKKKKKKK!" doesn't make you a good frontman.)
I'm worried that the vocals are not going to do justice to the material. Having said that, I'm not sure I want to see any of the videos before the show. I know the setlist, and that's fine, but I want the experience... any thoughts?
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I am team both but really think Mike needs to think before posting online.
Answering: Only one
To a post asking whether Mike hates canadians
That is soo unneccesary.
Well, I thought he meant Justin Beiber, so there. That could explain everything. :)
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I am team both but really think Mike needs to think before posting online.
Answering: Only one
To a post asking whether Mike hates canadians
That is soo unneccesary.
Well, I thought he meant Justin Beiber, so there. That could explain everything. :)
That would still make him look like a jackass. So yeah, I guess it would indeed explain everything.
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Personally (I haven't always felt this way), I find a lot of the stuff he says to be entertaining and amusing, and compared to some of his peers in the music industry who have done some truly odious things, I don't really think it's a big deal. But I get why it bothers people.
Ah, that's for sure. He seriously needs a lesson or two from a PR manager on how to behave on social media, but nothing he's ever done or said made me seriously cringe in utter contempt. He oozes enthusiasm for what he does and it clearly transpires in his messages.
That's kind of where I'm at, ultimately. I think Twitter is dumb to start with, and you get what you deserve by putting your complex human emotions out there in 140 characters or less.
I just wish people would curtail the psychoanalysis and the name-calling until the whole story is out. If that's "bias" so be it.
(And for your benefit, Bosk, I made a point of saying "Team Mike" because there's another site out there - you may be familiar with it - that, in the wake of Mike's leaving DT, were absolutely BRUTAL to him. I mean, beyond the pale. Anti-Semitic. Homophobic. One line of reasoning even posited him as an incestuous child molester. It was absolutely disgusting, and all rationalized by, and I'm paraphrasing a little, but I'm not at all far off, "his passive aggressive behavior in the wake of HIS leaving DT".)
That's horrible. I don't care how upset someone may have been by his leaving DT - there is no excuse for any of that. I'm not a fan of his passive aggressive behavior, or whatever you want to call it, but nothing he has said (or could say) would justify me making anti-Semitic, homophobic, or any other manner of disgusting comments.
I'm in the camp that wishes he would stop with the comments. I don't think it makes him a bad person - people are complex. He could be a great guy in all other aspects of his life (or not, we don't know). Thus, I try to give him the benefit of the doubt. This could be just one side of him that I don't like. It does wear on me, I have to admit. It does sometimes take my interest in seeing The Shattered Fortress or hearing his new project down a little. Then I try to remind myself to just keep an open mind. As a relative newbie here, my observation in this thread (and a couple others) is that most here aren't bashing him personally and aren't even assuming to know who has mistreated who behind the scenes, but instead are critiquing his public comments, which is valid.
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I see it differently. To me, "silence" is not the high road. And I'm not "assuming" anything, that's the point. I'm not at ALL saying MIKE IS RIGHT, and I'm not calling DT "passive aggressive dicks". I'm not making ANY judgments; I'm saying "I don't have enough information to MAKE judgments". How much more objective can I get?
You literally referred to yourself as being on "team Mike"...
And I don't apologize for that. That means I like his music. That means that "whatever it was" that he brought to DT was in large part the "whatever" that made them a top three band for me. That doesn't at all mean I can't be objective.
:lol
It just means you choose not to be...ever.
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Back to the music... I'm really nervous about the vocals. My opinion of LaBrie is akin to Bosk's for MP; I think his voice is crucial and integral to the sound of DT (and part of the reason I even got into the band) though my personal feelings for the guy are not all that high (and I don't think he's really a good front man at all. "Let's RAAAAAAWWWWWKKKKKKKK!" doesn't make you a good frontman.)
I'm worried that the vocals are not going to do justice to the material. Having said that, I'm not sure I want to see any of the videos before the show. I know the setlist, and that's fine, but I want the experience... any thoughts?
Actually I think JL is a good front man. The Haken guy doing the vocals for Shattered Fortress is going to be acceptable, I think. I actually don't know the whole setlist, but have watched a few videos of 12 step songs plus 1 more. He is capable of hitting the notes; in some of the videos he struggles but more than OK for a live show. I don't like his voice for the DT songs, and on the videos I'd say it doesn't do it justice 'cuz I just don't like the way it sounds. However - when you are there live and in person? Might be OK. You know?
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A U.S. tour would be nice. I think there's a bigger market in Europe. They seem to have a much bigger appreciation for this kind of music over there, same with Asia and South America. The U.S. is too mainstream..
Yup, totally agreed. Seemed like MP had to work hard just to get the NYC date, which isn't a huge venue and isn't even sold out. ProgPower makes tons of sense though.
Yeah. To be fair to MP, he and DT, at least in the fall, are obviously competing. I am sure those DT dates are already set in stone, and they are waiting to announce them. So for promoters to book DT, and then to come back and book MP doing DT...that makes it problematic from a promoter standpoint. Bad timing. Plus...all the scheduling on top of that of the players involved.
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A U.S. tour would be nice. I think there's a bigger market in Europe. They seem to have a much bigger appreciation for this kind of music over there, same with Asia and South America. The U.S. is too mainstream..
Yup, totally agreed. Seemed like MP had to work hard just to get the NYC date, which isn't a huge venue and isn't even sold out. ProgPower makes tons of sense though.
Yeah. To be fair to MP, he and DT, at least in the fall, are obviously competing. I am sure those DT dates are already set in stone, and they are waiting to announce them. So for promoters to book DT, and then to come back and book MP doing DT...that makes it problematic from a promoter standpoint. Bad timing. Plus...all the scheduling on top of that of the players involved.
Yea I definitely wondered if the touring schedules of either one effected another. I'm not sure I can speculate anymore than that though since the only facts we have are that MP is playing two shows in the US and DT have continually said NA dates soon. ???
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I see it differently. To me, "silence" is not the high road. And I'm not "assuming" anything, that's the point. I'm not at ALL saying MIKE IS RIGHT, and I'm not calling DT "passive aggressive dicks". I'm not making ANY judgments; I'm saying "I don't have enough information to MAKE judgments". How much more objective can I get?
You literally referred to yourself as being on "team Mike"...
And I don't apologize for that. That means I like his music. That means that "whatever it was" that he brought to DT was in large part the "whatever" that made them a top three band for me. That doesn't at all mean I can't be objective.
:lol
It just means you choose not to be...ever.
Pretty much :lol
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Personally (I haven't always felt this way), I find a lot of the stuff he says to be entertaining and amusing, and compared to some of his peers in the music industry who have done some truly odious things, I don't really think it's a big deal. But I get why it bothers people.
Ah, that's for sure. He seriously needs a lesson or two from a PR manager on how to behave on social media, but nothing he's ever done or said made me seriously cringe in utter contempt. He oozes enthusiasm for what he does and it clearly transpires in his messages.
That's kind of where I'm at, ultimately. I think Twitter is dumb to start with, and you get what you deserve by putting your complex human emotions out there in 140 characters or less.
I just wish people would curtail the psychoanalysis and the name-calling until the whole story is out. If that's "bias" so be it.
(And for your benefit, Bosk, I made a point of saying "Team Mike" because there's another site out there - you may be familiar with it - that, in the wake of Mike's leaving DT, were absolutely BRUTAL to him. I mean, beyond the pale. Anti-Semitic. Homophobic. One line of reasoning even posited him as an incestuous child molester. It was absolutely disgusting, and all rationalized by, and I'm paraphrasing a little, but I'm not at all far off, "his passive aggressive behavior in the wake of HIS leaving DT".)
That's horrible. I don't care how upset someone may have been by his leaving DT - there is no excuse for any of that. I'm not a fan of his passive aggressive behavior, or whatever you want to call it, but nothing he has said (or could say) would justify me making anti-Semitic, homophobic, or any other manner of disgusting comments.
I'm in the camp that wishes he would stop with the comments. I don't think it makes him a bad person - people are complex. He could be a great guy in all other aspects of his life (or not, we don't know). Thus, I try to give him the benefit of the doubt. This could be just one side of him that I don't like. It does wear on me, I have to admit. It does sometimes take my interest in seeing The Shattered Fortress or hearing his new project down a little. Then I try to remind myself to just keep an open mind. As a relative newbie here, my observation in this thread (and a couple others) is that most here aren't bashing him personally and aren't even assuming to know who has mistreated who behind the scenes, but instead are critiquing his public comments, which is valid.
I look at MP like many on Facebook. People post their drama and really should not.
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Back to the music... I'm really nervous about the vocals. My opinion of LaBrie is akin to Bosk's for MP; I think his voice is crucial and integral to the sound of DT (and part of the reason I even got into the band) though my personal feelings for the guy are not all that high (and I don't think he's really a good front man at all. "Let's RAAAAAAWWWWWKKKKKKKK!" doesn't make you a good frontman.)
I'm worried that the vocals are not going to do justice to the material. Having said that, I'm not sure I want to see any of the videos before the show. I know the setlist, and that's fine, but I want the experience... any thoughts?
I'm a big Haken fan but it took me some time to get comfortable with Ross.
That being said I was really impressed how he handled the songs yesterday (013), especially the first part of the show (Strange Deja Vu, The Mirror, TGP, TDS).
He struggled a little during Home & Finally Free but still a great performance overall.
I saw 2 DT shows this year and while the setlist off course is completely different I'm definitely more impressed by Ross compared to JLB.
I'm glad I will see them again next week at The Night of The Prog.
Twice in a lifetime event :metal
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Back to the music... I'm really nervous about the vocals. My opinion of LaBrie is akin to Bosk's for MP; I think his voice is crucial and integral to the sound of DT (and part of the reason I even got into the band) though my personal feelings for the guy are not all that high (and I don't think he's really a good front man at all. "Let's RAAAAAAWWWWWKKKKKKKK!" doesn't make you a good frontman.)
I'm worried that the vocals are not going to do justice to the material. Having said that, I'm not sure I want to see any of the videos before the show. I know the setlist, and that's fine, but I want the experience... any thoughts?
Actually I think JL is a good front man. The Haken guy doing the vocals for Shattered Fortress is going to be acceptable, I think. I actually don't know the whole setlist, but have watched a few videos of 12 step songs plus 1 more. He is capable of hitting the notes; in some of the videos he struggles but more than OK for a live show. I don't like his voice for the DT songs, and on the videos I'd say it doesn't do it justice 'cuz I just don't like the way it sounds. However - when you are there live and in person? Might be OK. You know?
I do know. I've seen David Lee Roth and Brian Johnson live. :)
Another thread - and I'll repeat, his voice is why I got into DT to begin with - but compared to Bruce Dickinson, Ronnie Dio, Paul Stanley, Freddie Mercury, Bono, hell, even James Hetfield and the aforementioned Roth... James is not a great frontman.
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I like both Ross and JLB. I think they are both pretty similar in that they are vocals for progressive metal bands where the other musicians are so talented that it makes the vocalist who can't always replicate the studio (that's not a knock on them, just the realities of being a singer) look poor compared to the rest of the band (who can precisely replicate the studio). Both vocalists are also pretty divisive with the fan bases too. I feel Ross may be the best (that I can think of) to sing for this project.
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I feel Ross may be the best (that I can think of) to sing for this project.
Dominici :neverusethis:
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I like both Ross and JLB. I think they are both pretty similar in that they are vocals for progressive metal bands where the other musicians are so talented that it makes the vocalist who can't always replicate the studio (that's not a knock on them, just the realities of being a singer) look poor compared to the rest of the band (who can precisely replicate the studio). Both vocalists are also pretty divisive with the fan bases too. I feel Ross may be the best (that I can think of) to sing for this project.
When I still followed MP on Twitter, I remember somebody asked him about having Russell Allen sing for these shows. Mike replied saying he wanted to, but Russell had other commitments, so he had to decline. It must still be on a tweet somewhere on Mike's profile.
Even though Haken is my 2nd favorite band, after DT, and that I'm a big fan of Ross, I think Russell would've been a much better fit for these shows than him.
My "dream" lineup for the band would've been: MP, Diego Tejeida, Conner Green, Eric Gillette and Russell Allen.
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Back to the music... I'm really nervous about the vocals. My opinion of LaBrie is akin to Bosk's for MP; I think his voice is crucial and integral to the sound of DT (and part of the reason I even got into the band) though my personal feelings for the guy are not all that high (and I don't think he's really a good front man at all. "Let's RAAAAAAWWWWWKKKKKKKK!" doesn't make you a good frontman.)
I'm worried that the vocals are not going to do justice to the material. Having said that, I'm not sure I want to see any of the videos before the show. I know the setlist, and that's fine, but I want the experience... any thoughts?
Actually I think JL is a good front man. The Haken guy doing the vocals for Shattered Fortress is going to be acceptable, I think. I actually don't know the whole setlist, but have watched a few videos of 12 step songs plus 1 more. He is capable of hitting the notes; in some of the videos he struggles but more than OK for a live show. I don't like his voice for the DT songs, and on the videos I'd say it doesn't do it justice 'cuz I just don't like the way it sounds. However - when you are there live and in person? Might be OK. You know?
I do know. I've seen David Lee Roth and Brian Johnson live. :)
Another thread - and I'll repeat, his voice is why I got into DT to begin with - but compared to Bruce Dickinson, Ronnie Dio, Paul Stanley, Freddie Mercury, Bono, hell, even James Hetfield and the aforementioned Roth... James is not a great frontman.
IMO a great frontman is a singer who is perfect for the band he's in. I really don't think that, for example, Bruce Dickinson would be a great frontman for DT. The band wouldn't be a unit on stage, JP, JR and JM would totally be pushed into the background. That's not the way DT works. Also, I always have the feeling that JLB is totally reflecting the meaning and the mood of the songs with his voice, that's the most important thing for me anyway.
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I see it differently. To me, "silence" is not the high road. And I'm not "assuming" anything, that's the point. I'm not at ALL saying MIKE IS RIGHT, and I'm not calling DT "passive aggressive dicks". I'm not making ANY judgments; I'm saying "I don't have enough information to MAKE judgments". How much more objective can I get?
Significantly more.
Can't we all just agree that regardless of the underlying facts Mike can tend to act in a petty and passive-aggressive manner when speaking publicly? I mean, this isn't something that started when he left the band; it's always been true.
You would think so, but there are obviously some would rather have their right arm amputated before conceding even a minor point like that.
Ah, that's for sure. He seriously needs a lesson or two from a PR manager on how to behave on social media, but nothing he's ever done or said made me seriously cringe in utter contempt. He oozes enthusiasm for what he does and it clearly transpires in his messages.
Yep, and that is what is unfortunate about his tendencies to lash out and be a drama queen, because he really does go out of his way to do things that he thinks fans will like, and he definitely knows how to get a fan base excited about an album or a live show.
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Why is it so hard for some of you to concede that you don't know everything and that you don't have complete information?
You did it again.
Incomplete information isn't relevant at all. MP is representing himself to be a complete jerk since he left. Who cares what's behind the scenes or what's *really* going on? If someone is acting like an abusive jerk at every opportunity then how is Joe Public supposed to think he's anything but that no matter what the circumstances are?
No, that's a bunch of crap. He is being criticized for what he has said/done publicly, and that is fair game. And many of those same people are also praising him or have praised him for what he has said/done publicly that is good. Your "team Mike" membership card is blinding you to the facts.
Exactly the point I'm trying to make also.
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Back to the music... I'm really nervous about the vocals. My opinion of LaBrie is akin to Bosk's for MP; I think his voice is crucial and integral to the sound of DT (and part of the reason I even got into the band) though my personal feelings for the guy are not all that high (and I don't think he's really a good front man at all. "Let's RAAAAAAWWWWWKKKKKKKK!" doesn't make you a good frontman.)
I'm worried that the vocals are not going to do justice to the material. Having said that, I'm not sure I want to see any of the videos before the show. I know the setlist, and that's fine, but I want the experience... any thoughts?
Actually I think JL is a good front man. The Haken guy doing the vocals for Shattered Fortress is going to be acceptable, I think. I actually don't know the whole setlist, but have watched a few videos of 12 step songs plus 1 more. He is capable of hitting the notes; in some of the videos he struggles but more than OK for a live show. I don't like his voice for the DT songs, and on the videos I'd say it doesn't do it justice 'cuz I just don't like the way it sounds. However - when you are there live and in person? Might be OK. You know?
I do know. I've seen David Lee Roth and Brian Johnson live. :)
Another thread - and I'll repeat, his voice is why I got into DT to begin with - but compared to Bruce Dickinson, Ronnie Dio, Paul Stanley, Freddie Mercury, Bono, hell, even James Hetfield and the aforementioned Roth... James is not a great frontman.
I suppose we look for different things in front men. I've never seen Bono or Freddie Mercury, but as for the rest, I'd only maaaayyyyyybe have conceded Bruce Dickinson but I also think CB was 100% right when he said:
"IMO a great frontman is a singer who is perfect for the band he's in. I really don't think that, for example, Bruce Dickinson would be a great frontman for DT. The band wouldn't be a unit on stage, JP, JR and JM would totally be pushed into the background. That's not the way DT works. Also, I always have the feeling that JLB is totally reflecting the meaning and the mood of the songs with his voice, that's the most important thing for me anyway."
James would look ridiculous if he tried to act like Bruce Dickinson. I do think he is perfect for DT. Knows when to get off the stage, has crowd participation at the right times in DT's music, knows how to get a response from the audience. Always thought he was good, but he stepped it up even more on the last few tours, especially TA.
Back to your original question - I suggest not watching much of the videos and in the heat of the moment Ross will probably sound fine at the show. Plus MP will be there being MP and if you don't quite like the vocals you can focus you're attention elsewhere.
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https://youtu.be/EqJvGNegbag
Sorry to add fuel to the fire but this is a very telling interview with MP. Says he originally offered to do this tour with the guys at DT he's still friends with, his relationship with DT and his obvious anger that they're playing a change of seasons.
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https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=EqJvGNegbag&feature=youtu.be
Sorry to add fuel to the fire but this is a very telling interview with MP. Says he originally offered to do this tour with the guys at DT he's still friends with, his relationship with DT and his obvious anger that they're playing a change of seasons.
I think he offered the Cruise to the Edge gig to JP, JM and JR not the full tour.
As for the interview I think he bit his tounge a few times but stayed classy. Good interview.
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https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=EqJvGNegbag&feature=youtu.be
Sorry to add fuel to the fire but this is a very telling interview with MP. Says he originally offered to do this tour with the guys at DT he's still friends with, his relationship with DT and his obvious anger that they're playing a change of seasons.
I think he offered the Cruise to the Edge gig to JP, JM and JR not the full tour.
As for the interview I think he bit his tounge a few times but stayed classy. Good interview.
Indeed but it was very obvious over a change of seasons you can tell he wasn't happy about it but yes other than that handled himself well
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I think if he decided to do ACOS anyway, the only comparison would have been the vocals, to which I'm sure James would have gotten some not so good opinions about him.
Also, I think he may only be friends with JP and JR at this point. He and James aren't cool for obvious reasons, but I don't think he and JM have any beef, and it's probably more of the fact that JM is so introverted that he just never decided to stay in touch. I mean, how much did they actually talk to each other during the 25 years they were together?
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Anyone else think MP should play a song from DT12 or TA?
I just wonder how everyone would react.
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Anyone else think MP should play a song from DT12 or TA?
I just wonder how everyone would react.
"Act of Faythe" with MP on vocals doing death growls.
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MUH MUUUUSIIIIC PLAAAAAAAYAAAAHHHHHHAHRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGHHHHHHHHHHHH
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:lol
Solid interview and cool footage, maybe that is what the cameras are for. Looking forward to parts 2 and 3 :metal
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ROCKHOK is a really bad name, though. Say it fast. :lol :lol
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I think if he decided to do ACOS anyway, the only comparison would have been the vocals, to which I'm sure James would have gotten some not so good opinions about him.
Also, I think he may only be friends with JP and JR at this point. He and James aren't cool for obvious reasons, but I don't think he and JM have any beef, and it's probably more of the fact that JM is so introverted that he just never decided to stay in touch. I mean, how much did they actually talk to each other during the 25 years they were together?
MP actually explicitly said on FB that he has been on good terms with 3 of the 4 members of DT that he left behind, so I think he's mended any wounds he opened with JM over the years, if there were any at all.
-Marc.
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I think if he decided to do ACOS anyway, the only comparison would have been the vocals, to which I'm sure James would have gotten some not so good opinions about him.
Also, I think he may only be friends with JP and JR at this point. He and James aren't cool for obvious reasons, but I don't think he and JM have any beef, and it's probably more of the fact that JM is so introverted that he just never decided to stay in touch. I mean, how much did they actually talk to each other during the 25 years they were together?
MP actually explicitly said on FB that he has been on good terms with 3 of the 4 members of DT that he left behind, so I think he's mended any wounds he opened with JM over the years, if there were any at all.
-Marc.
That's good to hear.
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I think if he decided to do ACOS anyway, the only comparison would have been the vocals, to which I'm sure James would have gotten some not so good opinions about him.
Also, I think he may only be friends with JP and JR at this point. He and James aren't cool for obvious reasons, but I don't think he and JM have any beef, and it's probably more of the fact that JM is so introverted that he just never decided to stay in touch. I mean, how much did they actually talk to each other during the 25 years they were together?
MP actually explicitly said on FB that he has been on good terms with 3 of the 4 members of DT that he left behind, so I think he's mended any wounds he opened with JM over the years, if there were any at all.
-Marc.
That's good to hear.
Yes I noticed that was odd. The Facebook post was done just before the tour started but this interview was done after the Tilberg show.... so what happened? suddenly beef with someone in a few days or MP just mistyping or mis counting
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I've been guilty of using couple and few improperly, although I try not to. It could be the same for MP.
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Why aren't MP and Labrie in good terms? What happened? Source?
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Why aren't MP and Labrie in good terms? What happened? Source?
No one knows MP has said he still gets on with a 2 or 3 (depending on the interview) of the original band and he's publicly been seen or said to be still friendly with JR and JP. JR in particular has still said they're friends and they've been photographed together on a couple of occasions and I've seen a post somewhere where he's said he's still friends with JP. So basically by process of elimination that leaves Labire and JM and JM is not the kind guy i would of thought to hold a grudge especially since they've known eachother since College.
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Why aren't MP and Labrie in good terms? What happened? Source?
Only speculation, but Mike has talked shit about James over the years, and I'd assume James doesn't like that too much. He may have even been the main person keeping Mike from doing collaborations, which in turn would cause Mike's dislike.
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Anyone else think MP should play a song from DT12 or TA?
I just wonder how everyone would react.
Mike Portnoy was doing signings at Be Prog and I kind of wanted someone to bring a copy of ADTOE for him to sign, just to see his reaction. I really wonder what would happen then.
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Probably similar to when a fan wore an ADTOE shirt to one of his signings. He took to Facebook to rip that fan apart and single him out for hurting his feelings
“Somebody came to my signing today wearing a “Dramatic Turn Of Events” shirt… REALLY??? Couldn’t find a DT shirt from 1985-2010? Please try to use come sensibility/sensitivity when choosing a shirt for an MP event…”
The when everyone said it was an overreaction on MP's part
Once again everyone’s got their panties in a bundle and have taken a post of mine and turned it into sensationalized “news”….ugh!
Look…it’s as simple as this: do what you want, say what you want, listen to what you want, wear whatever shirt you want…it’s a free world!!
All I’m saying is remember there are human beings on the other side of your words and actions!
I’m into peace, love and understanding…live and let live…sometimes we all get emotional, I am totally guilty of that, no question!! I am a passionate person…But I have no ill intent towards anybody and have no anger or resentments, so please don’t attack me as if I do…
Can’t we all get along??? Haha…
Lighten up, live and love! : )
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You know, that second part is pretty sensible indeed. If he had really though that, there would have been no need for that first post. That's some double standards right there.
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He told people to lighten up. HA!
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The people that trash on MP are no better. I think many read into his posts too much and take things out of context. I'd be willing to bet MP would be a fun guy to hang out with, I sure wish I could jam with him. I've jammed and recorded with some good drummers but that would be a whole different league.. :metal
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https://youtu.be/EqJvGNegbag
Sorry to add fuel to the fire but this is a very telling interview with MP. Says he originally offered to do this tour with the guys at DT he's still friends with, his relationship with DT and his obvious anger that they're playing a change of seasons.
Great interview!
And I don't see it as adding fuel to the fire at all. He was candid, but still professional and conducted himself well. Honestly, if he always conducted himself this way, there would be very little room for criticism.
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Yeah, he was fine in that interview. I still think he should be playing ACOS if he wants to. People get it.
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He should be able to play any DT song he was on.
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MP handled it fantastically. The interviewer was trying to goad him into giving a controversial response. Yeah, MP may be upset, that's fine, he has a right to. He handled it really well
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https://youtu.be/EqJvGNegbag
Sorry to add fuel to the fire but this is a very telling interview with MP. Says he originally offered to do this tour with the guys at DT he's still friends with, his relationship with DT and his obvious anger that they're playing a change of seasons.
Great interview!
And I don't see it as adding fuel to the fire at all. He was candid, but still professional and conducted himself well. Honestly, if he always conducted himself this way, there would be very little room for criticism.
Totally agree! MP was all class in that interview. That's what makes the times he's not so professional so angering. He has it in him as this interview can attest to.
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https://youtu.be/EqJvGNegbag
Sorry to add fuel to the fire but this is a very telling interview with MP. Says he originally offered to do this tour with the guys at DT he's still friends with, his relationship with DT and his obvious anger that they're playing a change of seasons.
Great interview!
And I don't see it as adding fuel to the fire at all. He was candid, but still professional and conducted himself well. Honestly, if he always conducted himself this way, there would be very little room for criticism.
This was my thought while watching it as well. Totally different vibe from his online presence.
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Protip: Only do social media directly after a show.
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I think Portnoy often comes off harsher online than he intends to and the interview shows that.
He's right that it would've been difficult for DT to appear at this without sparking the rumor mill. Right now they're trying to sell DT with Mangini, it doesn't make sense to do a gig with Portnoy.
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Especially if said gig was a cruise ship, that's tough to block off.
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And especially if it is only some of the guys and not all of them.
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Plus it's probably not wise to invite a pirate out to sea.
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Plus it's probably not wise to invite a pirate out to sea.
And this was how the internet was won. YAAAARRRRR!!!
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And especially if it is only some of the guys and not all of them.
Yea the way he said that also seemed to imply that JLB wasn't invited, which also would've been weird.
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I've been guilty of using couple and few improperly, although I try not to. It could be the same for MP.
Yeah, maybe.. But to confuse 30 (amount of DT lyrics he claims to have written in the interview) with 14 (actual amount of DT lyrics he wrote), that's another thing I suppose.. I wonder if he does these kind of things -cuz is not the first time precisely- on purpose; I mean, with the obsessive that he is with this little details and all that, I doubt he wouldn't know how many lyrics he wrote for a band he was in for 25 years and just after reviewing them in order to select some among them..
Also, he says he wrote, besides their lyrics, the vocal melodies for the three SFAM songs they're playing now?.. About that now, I just don't believe him, if that's what he meant..
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I've been guilty of using couple and few improperly, although I try not to. It could be the same for MP.
Yeah, maybe.. But to confuse 30 (amount of DT lyrics he claims to have written in the interview) with 14 (actual amount of DT lyrics he wrote), that's another thing I suppose.. I wonder if he does these kind of things -cuz is not the first time precisely- on purpose; I mean, with the obsessive that he is with this little details and all that, I doubt he wouldn't know how many lyrics he wrote for a band he was in for 25 years and just after reviewing them in order to select some among them..
Also, he says he wrote, besides their lyrics, the vocal melodies for the three SFAM songs they're playing now?.. About that now, I just don't believe him, if that's what he meant..
Why not? I think that's how DT generally work. Unless the vocal melodies are part of the music (which happens often enough in their music) then whoever writes the lyrics demos the whole thing at home and usually end up writing those vocal melodies.
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Yeah, Petrucci writes the melodies for his songs too. Haven't you heard his amazing singing demos?
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indeed was a good eye opener that he offered the invitation to the guys to perform with him. Classy by MP
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I think if he decided to do ACOS anyway, the only comparison would have been the vocals, to which I'm sure James would have gotten some not so good opinions about him.
Also, I think he may only be friends with JP and JR at this point. He and James aren't cool for obvious reasons, but I don't think he and JM have any beef, and it's probably more of the fact that JM is so introverted that he just never decided to stay in touch. I mean, how much did they actually talk to each other during the 25 years they were together?
MP actually explicitly said on FB that he has been on good terms with 3 of the 4 members of DT that he left behind, so I think he's mended any wounds he opened with JM over the years, if there were any at all.
-Marc.
That's good to hear.
Yes I noticed that was odd. The Facebook post was done just before the tour started but this interview was done after the Tilberg show.... so what happened? suddenly beef with someone in a few days or MP just mistyping or mis counting
I know for quite some time that things between him and JM were not cool, so a simple explanation is that maybe since he first invited the guys to join him on the cruise, that he's since patched things up with JM. After all, JM and MP literally live within walking distance of each other. So I wouldn't be surprised if at some point they crossed paths, intentionally or not.
Why aren't MP and Labrie in good terms? What happened? Source?
Only speculation, but Mike has talked shit about James over the years, and I'd assume James doesn't like that too much. He may have even been the main person keeping Mike from doing collaborations, which in turn would cause Mike's dislike.
Honestly, what "shit" has MP talked about JL? Aside from being stupid enough to get pissed off after seeing a click-bait Blabbermouth headline, nothing MP has said publicly could be described as what you are saying. Yes, there were different times that MP spoke candidly about how JL's vocal style might not be best for what DT wanted to do at the (then) present time, but I'd hardly call that talking "shit".
As for being the main person to keep MP from doing collaborations, not at all - no chance of that at all. What the guys do outside of their committed time to DT is entirely up to them.
The people that trash on MP are no better. I think many read into his posts too much and take things out of context. I'd be willing to bet MP would be a fun guy to hang out with, I sure wish I could jam with him. I've jammed and recorded with some good drummers but that would be a whole different league.. :metal
So true about people talking trash. And I recall one guy on here (forget his name) who just LOVED to talk crap about MP, but when he managed to get backstage at a festival MP was at, and MP complimented him on the (MP-era) DT shirt he was wearing, the guy totally pussied out and didn't have the balls to talk like he did here.
As for MP himself, you're completely correct in that he's a great guy to hang with. I've had the pleasure of having dinner with him 3 different times, besides doing 3 interviews, hanging out with him before the Cygnus and the Sea Monsters show (walking around Chicago, going into record stores) and just chatting with him at aftershows numerous times. He is a great person to spend time with - not some cocky rockstar jerk like many haters probably like to imagine that he is.
Yeah, he was fine in that interview. I still think he should be playing ACOS if he wants to. People get it.
Amen! I soooooo wish he would, for himself and for the fans.
I've been guilty of using couple and few improperly, although I try not to. It could be the same for MP.
Yeah, maybe.. But to confuse 30 (amount of DT lyrics he claims to have written in the interview) with 14 (actual amount of DT lyrics he wrote), that's another thing I suppose.. I wonder if he does these kind of things -cuz is not the first time precisely- on purpose; I mean, with the obsessive that he is with this little details and all that, I doubt he wouldn't know how many lyrics he wrote for a band he was in for 25 years and just after reviewing them in order to select some among them..
Also, he says he wrote, besides their lyrics, the vocal melodies for the three SFAM songs they're playing now?.. About that now, I just don't believe him, if that's what he meant..
While MP is detail oriented, he is also extremely honest. So in that case, I'd imagine he pulled that number out of the air, just has he does when he jokes about how he's in 86 bands at the moment. So, no, I doubt he's taken the time to count out exactly how many songs he wrote DT lyrics to. Funny too, because I'm counting that he wrote lyrics to 20 different songs (altho in the case of 2 of them, they were co-written: SDoIT and 8v); maybe you need to do a recount too. ;)
And regarding writing vocal melodies to the SFaM tracks? You better believe he has. That has always been a rule within the DT camp: whoever writes the lyrics writes the vocal melodies. While you may not think so, MP is more familiar with music than just being a drummer. He knows theory and has come up with musical parts to various DT songs (altho not as many as JP and JR). So it shouldn't be surprising that he did write the vocal melodies to the songs he wrote lyrics for. In fact, there's a version of TBoT with MP singing the lyrics, because he came up with the vocal melodies. :P The only one who doesn't, is JM, who always submitted lyrics in poem form, requiring the other guys to reformat the words into lyrical format, which was one beef that they (not just MP) had.
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I've been guilty of using couple and few improperly, although I try not to. It could be the same for MP.
Yeah, maybe.. But to confuse 30 (amount of DT lyrics he claims to have written in the interview) with 14 (actual amount of DT lyrics he wrote), that's another thing I suppose.. I wonder if he does these kind of things -cuz is not the first time precisely- on purpose; I mean, with the obsessive that he is with this little details and all that, I doubt he wouldn't know how many lyrics he wrote for a band he was in for 25 years and just after reviewing them in order to select some among them..
Also, he says he wrote, besides their lyrics, the vocal melodies for the three SFAM songs they're playing now?.. About that now, I just don't believe him, if that's what he meant..
Why not? I think that's how DT generally work. Unless the vocal melodies are part of the music (which happens often enough in their music) then whoever writes the lyrics demos the whole thing at home and usually end up writing those vocal melodies.
Ok, good point.. I didn't think of that.. Anyways, as John always says, the lyric writing comes almost always ("the 99% of the times") after the music, so they're not entirely Portnoy's, but then just let me be at least impressed on how he improved his lyrical/vocal melody skills, specially after those in FII..
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Scotty, do you think MP talking in public how he felt James voice wasn't what he envisioned what he wanted for DT music in the future and was the catalyst to this issue between them?
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Scotty, do you think MP talking in public how he felt James voice wasn't what he envisioned what he wanted for DT music in the future and was the catalyst to this issue between them?
My impression, based off of the making of SC, was that LaBrie did not like the way Portnoy rode his ass in the studio when it came to recording vocals. Yeah, yeah, he was the producer, so that was technically his job, but imagine being told how to sing by a non-singer (or someone with very limited vocal ability). Flip that around and I doubt Portnoy would have liked LaBrie telling him how to play the drums.
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While MP is detail oriented, he is also extremely honest. So in that case, I'd imagine he pulled that number out of the air, just has he does when he jokes about how he's in 86 bands at the moment. So, no, I doubt he's taken the time to count out exactly how many songs he wrote DT lyrics to. Funny too, because I'm counting that he wrote lyrics to 20 different songs (altho in the case of 2 of them, they were co-written: SDoIT and 8v); maybe you need to do a recount too. ;)
And regarding writing vocal melodies to the SFaM tracks? You better believe he has. That has always been a rule within the DT camp: whoever writes the lyrics writes the vocal melodies. While you may not think so, MP is more familiar with music than just being a drummer. He knows theory and has come up with musical parts to various DT songs (altho not as many as JP and JR). So it shouldn't be surprising that he did write the vocal melodies to the songs he wrote lyrics for. In fact, there's a version of TBoT with MP singing the lyrics, because he came up with the vocal melodies. :P The only one who doesn't, is JM, who always submitted lyrics in poem form, requiring the other guys to reformat the words into lyrical format, which was one beef that they (not just MP) had.
They're 17, not 14, my bad.. I was looking at this post but forgot the three songs above:
But if doesn't play ACOS, The Best of Times or Honor Thy Father he's only left with:
The Mirror
New Millenium
Burning My Soul
Just Let me Breathe
Strange Deja vu
Home
Finally Free
War Inside my Head
The Test That Stumped them all
Goodnight Kiss
Never Enough
Constant Motion
Its probably going to be a 2 hour set so theres not room for many surprises
Fixed.. Now that's the full list I think..
Yeah 6DoIT and 8V wouldn't count because he wasn't the sole writer; if they would, that still would be instead a 19, not a 20, but anyways, is still far from his 30.. ;D
About the vocal melodies, yeah, I think I've always pictured him like not capable of writing "good" vocal melodies, subjetively speaking of course.. ACoS ending, all the FII songs, the rap part of HTF, the ambient section of Home, the chorus of FF, TBoT, the chorus of TSF? yeah, I can imagine they're coming from the same guy, but the rest of what he has written it actually sounds more than good... it sounds like Dream Theater, if *I* know what I mean... :lol
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Scotty, do you think MP talking in public how he felt James voice wasn't what he envisioned what he wanted for DT music in the future and was the catalyst to this issue between them?
My impression was that LaBrie did not like the way Portnoy rode his ass in the studio when it came to recording vocals. Yeah, yeah, he was the producer, so that was technically his job, but imagine being told how to sing by a non-singer (or someone with very limited vocal ability). Flip that around and I doubt Portnoy would have liked LaBrie telling him how to play the drums.
I agree but Mike did talk about it in interviews and that's where James may have thought he crossed a line.
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Scotty, do you think MP talking in public how he felt James voice wasn't what he envisioned what he wanted for DT music in the future and was the catalyst to this issue between them?
My impression was that LaBrie did not like the way Portnoy rode his ass in the studio when it came to recording vocals. Yeah, yeah, he was the producer, so that was technically his job, but imagine being told how to sing by a non-singer (or someone with very limited vocal ability). Flip that around and I doubt Portnoy would have liked LaBrie telling him how to play the drums.
I agree but Mike did talk about it in interviews and that's where James may have thought he crossed a line.
Right. I think it was around the time of Octavarium where Portnoy did an interview where he said that he wished they had a singer more like Daniel Gildenlow, and that if they had to start all over again, he wouldn't pick a singer like LaBrie. That was one of those occasions where being totally honest is not always the best policy. Being PC and giving a bull shit answer is sometimes the better way to go.
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Yes. There was a few interviews that I think any rational person knows that's not backing up your teammate.
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My impression, based off of the making of SC, was that LaBrie did not like the way Portnoy rode his ass in the studio when it came to recording vocals. Yeah, yeah, he was the producer, so that was technically his job, but imagine being told how to sing by a non-singer (or someone with very limited vocal ability).
Not the same discussion, but actually in the same vein of my posts, I'd say I couldn't think of MP as being a bigger influence in James while learning the songs/rehearsing them/recording them than JP, or even JR.. I mean, yes, Portnoy did "directed" him in some way, but the melody/harmony thing was most of the times in Petrucci's command, or at least this is what I've always understood or deducted..
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Remember how JP handled the lead vocals for ADTOE.
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Don't get me wrong. I have no illusions that writing and recording an album is all sweetness and lights. It's hard work, and even the best of friends can be at each other's throats at times when grinding away to get the work done and done right. I am just saying, I doubt LaBrie appreciated Portnoy's "dictatorial" style of producing, which always seemed rather different than Petrucci's, which came off to me like a guy who was trying to direct, but still realized, "hey, we are all still ultimately relative equals in this band" (although I am sure he likes being in charge by himself now :lol).
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They're 17, not 14, my bad.. I was looking at this post but forgot the three songs above:
Ummmmm, no. Let's do a recount again:
1. The Mirror
2. ACoS
3. Raise the Knife
4. Burning My Soul
5. Just Let Me Breathe
6. New Millennium
7. Strange Deja Vu
8. Home
9. Finally Free
10. The Glass Prison
11. parts of SDoIT
12. This Dying Soul
13. Honor Thy Father
14. The Root of All Evil
15. Never Enough
16. parts of 8v
17. Constant Motion
18. Repentance
19. Shattered Fortress
20. The Best of Times
Yeah 6DoIT and 8V wouldn't count because he wasn't the sole writer; if they would, that still would be instead a 19, not a 20, but anyways, is still far from his 30.. ;D
While I could agree with 8v, certainly parts of SDoIT can stand on their own - especially WIMH/TTTSTA, which DT has played many times both with and without MP. So at least that pairing should still count. And my point still stands - just because the number he gave was higher than what it ended up actually being doesn't mean the man was purposefully trying to pull one over on everyone.
I agree but Mike did talk about it in interviews and that's where James may have thought he crossed a line.
Quite possible.
Yes. There was a few interviews that I think any rational person knows that's not backing up your teammate.
I wouldn't use the word "rational" because MP is a very rational person in many cases. But nonetheless, it would've been best to be less forthcoming with such info.
Remember how JP handled the lead vocals for ADTOE.
Yes, which is probably something that was learned by JP from the previous experiences, especially since in many ways they were starting fresh. Don't forget that JP was a co-producer with MP. If JP disagreed with the way MP was handling the matter, you can be sure that he would've argued with MP over it (as he did with MP's "rough" vocals on ANtR and whether to continue on with album #11 or take a hiatus), but he didn't. So JP can be held just as liable as MP regarding this.
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They're 17, not 14, my bad.. I was looking at this post but forgot the three songs above:
Ummmmm, no. Let's do a recount again:
1. The Mirror
2. ACoS
3. Raise the Knife
4. Burning My Soul
5. Just Let Me Breathe
6. New Millennium
7. Strange Deja Vu
8. Home
9. Finally Free
10. The Glass Prison
11. parts of SDoIT
12. This Dying Soul
13. Honor Thy Father
14. The Root of All Evil
15. Never Enough
16. parts of 8v
17. Constant Motion
18. Repentance
19. Shattered Fortress
20. The Best of Times
Add part of TTT too👍
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They're 17, not 14, my bad.. I was looking at this post but forgot the three songs above:
Ummmmm, no. Let's do a recount again:
1. The Mirror
2. ACoS
3. Raise the Knife
4. Burning My Soul
5. Just Let Me Breathe
6. New Millennium
7. Strange Deja Vu
8. Home
9. Finally Free
10. The Glass Prison
11. parts of SDoIT
12. This Dying Soul
13. Honor Thy Father
14. The Root of All Evil
15. Never Enough
16. parts of 8v
17. Constant Motion
18. Repentance
19. Shattered Fortress
20. The Best of Times
Add part of TTT too👍
Also Raise The Knife.
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Actually RtK IS on that list now, although I wasn't counting it at first because is not in the studio albums.. But yeap..
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They're 17, not 14, my bad.. I was looking at this post but forgot the three songs above:
Ummmmm, no. Let's do a recount again:
1. The Mirror
2. ACoS
3. Raise the Knife
4. Burning My Soul
5. Just Let Me Breathe
6. New Millennium
7. Strange Deja Vu
8. Home
9. Finally Free
10. The Glass Prison
11. parts of SDoIT
12. This Dying Soul
13. Honor Thy Father
14. The Root of All Evil
15. Never Enough
16. parts of 8v
17. Constant Motion
18. Repentance
19. Shattered Fortress
20. The Best of Times
Add the instrumentals and you have about 30.
I think he counted them as well as they play two instrumentals in addition to songs MP wrote lyrics for.
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Only DTF will pick apart an offhand remark like that. :lol
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Only DTF will pick apart an offhand remark like that. :lol
When someone is the king of offhand remarks just like MP is, the remarks become something else. Well, it's not like he has said such things countless times before... ::)
B.Lee
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They're 17, not 14, my bad.. I was looking at this post but forgot the three songs above:
Ummmmm, no. Let's do a recount again:
1. The Mirror
2. ACoS
3. Raise the Knife
4. Burning My Soul
5. Just Let Me Breathe
6. New Millennium
7. Strange Deja Vu
8. Home
9. Finally Free
10. The Glass Prison
11. parts of SDoIT
12. This Dying Soul
13. Honor Thy Father
14. The Root of All Evil
15. Never Enough
16. parts of 8v
17. Constant Motion
18. Repentance
19. Shattered Fortress
20. The Best of Times
Add part of TTT too👍
He also co-wrote the lyrics to A Rite of Passage.
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I don't think he co-wrote the lyrics. I think he did have big part in the riff though
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I don't think he co-wrote the lyrics. I think he did have big part in the riff though
He's listed as one of the lyricists in the BC&SL booklet.
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Just looked at the booklet, lyrics are only credited to JP.
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I don't think he co-wrote the lyrics. I think he did have big part in the riff though
He's listed as one of the lyricists in the BC&SL booklet.
I have "Lyrics by John Petrucci"..
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I enjoyed the London show (despite not feeling too well, not really being in the mood for it and realising that my ankle isn't actually strong enough to stand up for that long yet), but I did feel that the setlist was a little one-dimensional, and it was like watching a covers band, albeit a great and incredibly talented one (Still better than The Astonishing, mind...).
That said, it was great to hear some of those songs again, and be reminded of what Mike brings to the party. DT may not miss him as a drummer, but as a larger-than-life personality, they're not the same without him. (Don't get me wrong, I'm not bashing DT - they've not been the same since KevMo left... :biggrin:)
I'd LOVE to see Mike make some more music in this style, I'm not sure Haken are the guys to do it with tho.
DT with 2 drummers? Now there's a thought...
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Maybe I'm a minority here, but I'm really excited with the perspective of have another band doing progressive metal with a DT mindset, with a MP flavour for metal and kind "competing" with DT. Maybe this could bring some unexpected/new things to the genre. I have confidence that MP (and Derek) will bring an album with DT top quality. So, hopefully, this will be better than have MP and DT together in one band again.
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Why is it so hard for some of you to concede that you don't know everything and that you don't have complete information?
You did it again.
Incomplete information isn't relevant at all. MP is representing himself to be a complete jerk since he left. Who cares what's behind the scenes or what's *really* going on? If someone is acting like an abusive jerk at every opportunity then how is Joe Public supposed to think he's anything but that no matter what the circumstances are?
What did I "do again"? "Abusive jerk" is subjective. To make that subjective determination you have to know more about why things were said. My friends and I routinely greet each other with things like "Hey fuckface". Or "Blow me". Is that abusive? Not when you know we've been through thick, thin, love, hate, whatever for over 30 years. To Kev's point: taken on their face, many of Mike's statements are what most of you are saying they are. There's no argument there. But context is VERY important. It's like a doctor walking into an exam room and saying "My diagnosis is..." without hearing what the patient's symptoms are. It's like selecting a recipe for dinner and not bothering to check what ingredients you have.
How can you fairly evaluate what someone is saying without knowing WHAT they are saying, WHY they are saying it, and to WHOM?
No, that's a bunch of crap. He is being criticized for what he has said/done publicly, and that is fair game. And many of those same people are also praising him or have praised him for what he has said/done publicly that is good. Your "team Mike" membership card is blinding you to the facts.
Exactly the point I'm trying to make also.
What facts? I'm the one saying there are facts that aren't being considered. I just admitted above that with no other information, some of Mike's posts seem offensive (and I've implied that before). What am I not being fair about?
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this thread has evolved into pure comedy gold
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Back to the music... I'm really nervous about the vocals. My opinion of LaBrie is akin to Bosk's for MP; I think his voice is crucial and integral to the sound of DT (and part of the reason I even got into the band) though my personal feelings for the guy are not all that high (and I don't think he's really a good front man at all. "Let's RAAAAAAWWWWWKKKKKKKK!" doesn't make you a good frontman.)
I'm worried that the vocals are not going to do justice to the material. Having said that, I'm not sure I want to see any of the videos before the show. I know the setlist, and that's fine, but I want the experience... any thoughts?
Actually I think JL is a good front man. The Haken guy doing the vocals for Shattered Fortress is going to be acceptable, I think. I actually don't know the whole setlist, but have watched a few videos of 12 step songs plus 1 more. He is capable of hitting the notes; in some of the videos he struggles but more than OK for a live show. I don't like his voice for the DT songs, and on the videos I'd say it doesn't do it justice 'cuz I just don't like the way it sounds. However - when you are there live and in person? Might be OK. You know?
I do know. I've seen David Lee Roth and Brian Johnson live. :)
Another thread - and I'll repeat, his voice is why I got into DT to begin with - but compared to Bruce Dickinson, Ronnie Dio, Paul Stanley, Freddie Mercury, Bono, hell, even James Hetfield and the aforementioned Roth... James is not a great frontman.
I suppose we look for different things in front men. I've never seen Bono or Freddie Mercury, but as for the rest, I'd only maaaayyyyyybe have conceded Bruce Dickinson but I also think CB was 100% right when he said:
"IMO a great frontman is a singer who is perfect for the band he's in. I really don't think that, for example, Bruce Dickinson would be a great frontman for DT. The band wouldn't be a unit on stage, JP, JR and JM would totally be pushed into the background. That's not the way DT works. Also, I always have the feeling that JLB is totally reflecting the meaning and the mood of the songs with his voice, that's the most important thing for me anyway."
James would look ridiculous if he tried to act like Bruce Dickinson. I do think he is perfect for DT. Knows when to get off the stage, has crowd participation at the right times in DT's music, knows how to get a response from the audience. Always thought he was good, but he stepped it up even more on the last few tours, especially TA.
Back to your original question - I suggest not watching much of the videos and in the heat of the moment Ross will probably sound fine at the show. Plus MP will be there being MP and if you don't quite like the vocals you can focus you're attention elsewhere.
I don't argue that DT is a different band, and I'm not necessarily saying that JLB isn't a good fit in DT (remember, he's the reason I got into the band back in '92); but it's not graded on a curve.
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Why aren't MP and Labrie in good terms? What happened? Source?
Only speculation, but Mike has talked shit about James over the years, and I'd assume James doesn't like that too much. He may have even been the main person keeping Mike from doing collaborations, which in turn would cause Mike's dislike.
I know I'm the one that usually ignores all the facts out there - :P - but let's not forget: "I'm glad he's gone", "We finally feel free", "I can now be the frontman instead of sharing the stage" (yeah, you stepped it up, bud; 51 minutes behind the amp line playing Candy Crush instead of the former 53 minutes); "What he did wasn't really that hard or special"; "We as a band will each take a little piece of what Mike did and we'll do it; you won't notice a thing!" (still waiting on that Ytsejam batch, and the rotating setlists, James!).
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You know, that second part is pretty sensible indeed. If he had really though that, there would have been no need for that first post. That's some double standards right there.
In the first post, he asked for the same sensitivity and understanding that he was offering to put forward in the second post. It's not as if DT/Portnoy are Van Halen and Roth, or U2 or Bruce Springsteen; it's a tight knit group. A fan who's not trying to be a dick would know better. I don't think it was too much to ask.
(I'm - hopefully - meeting Mike at the Morse Meet and Greet in August, and I've sent a note to someone I know who knows him on a "hey, text me, bro" basis, asking if it was cool to bring an Images and Words booklet (the first album I got from DT, back in '92 when it was released) to sign. It's just common courtesy if you ask me.)
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I respect all the opinions (and passion) here, but what I personally find really amazing is the fact that an implicit comment of MP about hating James almost begun a third world war here. I don't know, but I'm perfectly fine with MP hating James. He's free to hate anyone he wants (specially if they aren't in the same band anymore)! ;D ;D
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this thread has evolved into pure comedy gold
I'd argue that it has instead involved into the shining example of what's wrong with the Internet.
Every time you try to push some of the more positive aspects of this, and talk about the shows themselves, the thread gets derailed with people trying to push their ego and point over others. Can't we just enjoy something without all the drama?
I had people at my old forum (and myself too) that did this, and now I realize how stupid it all was.
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I put together a playlist with the "Shattered Fortress" setlist, and wow, am I looking forward to this show. I had previously edited the Twelve Step Suite into one long piece, so there's that, and added the SFAM bookends... I can't wait to see this. (Though I have to admit; the vocals... I'm worried about the vocals. James is such an integral part of the DT sound for me, especially on This Dying Soul and Home.)
To a previous post, I don't know how the Haken singer is going to translate, but I'm glad it's him and not Russell Allen; I may not have gone had it been Russell singing. He just doesn't do it for me.
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this thread has evolved into pure comedy gold
I'd argue that it has instead involved into the shining example of what's wrong with the Internet.
Every time you try to push some of the more positive aspects of this, and talk about the shows themselves, the thread gets derailed with people trying to push their ego and point over others. Can't we just enjoy something without all the drama?
I had people at my old forum (and myself too) that did this, and now I realize how stupid it all was.
It's ALL meaningless, in the sense that it's not curing cancer or solving world peace. But we're passionate about our music, and while I can't speak for anyone else, there's not a person in this thread that I wouldn't raise a beer with the night of the show (that's an offer, by the way). None of this should be cause for ill feelings. We happen to disagree, that's all.
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To a previous post, I don't know how the Haken singer is going to translate, but I'm glad it's him and not Russell Allen; I may not have gone had it been Russell singing. He just doesn't do it for me.
I'm totally with you on Russ Allen.
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I'm glad I'm not the only one who can't stand Russel Allen. He's the main reason why I could never get through a Symphony X song.
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To a previous post, I don't know how the Haken singer is going to translate, but I'm glad it's him and not Russell Allen; I may not have gone had it been Russell singing. He just doesn't do it for me.
I'm totally with you on Russ Allen.
Yea, would have turned me off from going as well. Haken being the backing band does the opposite.
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I like Russell Allen's voice - especially when he's not going overboard with the rougher stuff. I prefer his singing, especially on older Symphony X, to Haken's vocals. Despite that, Ross is a better fit. I think he's struggled some but Russell would really have a hard time based on what I've seen from him live.
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Why aren't MP and Labrie in good terms? What happened? Source?
Only speculation, but Mike has talked shit about James over the years, and I'd assume James doesn't like that too much. He may have even been the main person keeping Mike from doing collaborations, which in turn would cause Mike's dislike.
I know I'm the one that usually ignores all the facts out there - :P - but let's not forget: "I'm glad he's gone", "We finally feel free", "I can now be the frontman instead of sharing the stage" (yeah, you stepped it up, bud; 51 minutes behind the amp line playing Candy Crush instead of the former 53 minutes); "What he did wasn't really that hard or special"; "We as a band will each take a little piece of what Mike did and we'll do it; you won't notice a thing!" (still waiting on that Ytsejam batch, and the rotating setlists, James!).
Well, probably out of all DT members, James is the one that didn't hide behind a PR politeness as good as the others, but I understand his frustation at the comments from Mike about not chosing him again if given the chance... can you imagine in reverse the same statements? James saying "Well, Mike's great and all but right now we're all laid back dude so if given the chance we'd pick a less flamboyant drummer"?
That's like Steve Harris saying "Well, we picked Blaze Bayley because he's british, if Doogie White wasn't american he would have been a better choice", or Judas Priest saying "We picked Ripper because he's a clone, if we could find someone else now we'd go for a singer with a different style"... that's something you just don't say about a bandmate.
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Back to the music... I'm really nervous about the vocals. My opinion of LaBrie is akin to Bosk's for MP; I think his voice is crucial and integral to the sound of DT (and part of the reason I even got into the band) though my personal feelings for the guy are not all that high (and I don't think he's really a good front man at all. "Let's RAAAAAAWWWWWKKKKKKKK!" doesn't make you a good frontman.)
I'm worried that the vocals are not going to do justice to the material. Having said that, I'm not sure I want to see any of the videos before the show. I know the setlist, and that's fine, but I want the experience... any thoughts?
Actually I think JL is a good front man. The Haken guy doing the vocals for Shattered Fortress is going to be acceptable, I think. I actually don't know the whole setlist, but have watched a few videos of 12 step songs plus 1 more. He is capable of hitting the notes; in some of the videos he struggles but more than OK for a live show. I don't like his voice for the DT songs, and on the videos I'd say it doesn't do it justice 'cuz I just don't like the way it sounds. However - when you are there live and in person? Might be OK. You know?
I do know. I've seen David Lee Roth and Brian Johnson live. :)
Another thread - and I'll repeat, his voice is why I got into DT to begin with - but compared to Bruce Dickinson, Ronnie Dio, Paul Stanley, Freddie Mercury, Bono, hell, even James Hetfield and the aforementioned Roth... James is not a great frontman.
I suppose we look for different things in front men. I've never seen Bono or Freddie Mercury, but as for the rest, I'd only maaaayyyyyybe have conceded Bruce Dickinson but I also think CB was 100% right when he said:
"IMO a great frontman is a singer who is perfect for the band he's in. I really don't think that, for example, Bruce Dickinson would be a great frontman for DT. The band wouldn't be a unit on stage, JP, JR and JM would totally be pushed into the background. That's not the way DT works. Also, I always have the feeling that JLB is totally reflecting the meaning and the mood of the songs with his voice, that's the most important thing for me anyway."
James would look ridiculous if he tried to act like Bruce Dickinson. I do think he is perfect for DT. Knows when to get off the stage, has crowd participation at the right times in DT's music, knows how to get a response from the audience. Always thought he was good, but he stepped it up even more on the last few tours, especially TA.
Back to your original question - I suggest not watching much of the videos and in the heat of the moment Ross will probably sound fine at the show. Plus MP will be there being MP and if you don't quite like the vocals you can focus you're attention elsewhere.
I don't argue that DT is a different band, and I'm not necessarily saying that JLB isn't a good fit in DT (remember, he's the reason I got into the band back in '92); but it's not graded on a curve.
Not sure what you mean. Or, if you think I'm saying he should be considered a better frontman than he actually is because of DT, I'm not. I think he is a good frontman, period. Maybe he wouldn't be a good frontman for Van Halen, but I think I'd still prefer him over Roth. DLR would, to me, be a horrible frontman for DT. I could create my own band and pick any frontman, it wouldn't be the guys you listed. If I was told I could put any voice on them (I could have JL's voice and DLR's behavior), I still wouldn't do it. Like I said I think we want different things out of a frontman.
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I look at the whole MP and Shattered Fortress thing like this. It's like a romantic vacation that you planned with your wife for many years. You planned the trip, broke up with your wife for a younger woman(Avenged Sevenfold). The younger woman really does not want you long term. You try to go back to your wife then get mad at her for not taking you back and not taking that vacation that you planned for together.
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If bosk1 could trade DT-MP wife/baby metaphors for a dollar each, he could probably retire early and indefinitely pay for upkeep of the site at this point :lol
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Why aren't MP and Labrie in good terms? What happened? Source?
Only speculation, but Mike has talked shit about James over the years, and I'd assume James doesn't like that too much. He may have even been the main person keeping Mike from doing collaborations, which in turn would cause Mike's dislike.
I know I'm the one that usually ignores all the facts out there - :P - but let's not forget: "I'm glad he's gone", "We finally feel free", "I can now be the frontman instead of sharing the stage" (yeah, you stepped it up, bud; 51 minutes behind the amp line playing Candy Crush instead of the former 53 minutes); "What he did wasn't really that hard or special"; "We as a band will each take a little piece of what Mike did and we'll do it; you won't notice a thing!" (still waiting on that Ytsejam batch, and the rotating setlists, James!).
Well, probably out of all DT members, James is the one that didn't hide behind a PR politeness as good as the others, but I understand his frustation at the comments from Mike about not chosing him again if given the chance... can you imagine in reverse the same statements? James saying "Well, Mike's great and all but right now we're all laid back dude so if given the chance we'd pick a less flamboyant drummer"?
That's like Steve Harris saying "Well, we picked Blaze Bayley because he's british, if Doogie White wasn't american he would have been a better choice", or Judas Priest saying "We picked Ripper because he's a clone, if we could find someone else now we'd go for a singer with a different style"... that's something you just don't say about a bandmate.
I don't mean to put you on the spot (and for all I know, you agree with me, so I'm arguing with myself) but if you can accommodate James' frustration, and understand why HE lashed out, why are we not willing to do that with Mike himself? You either go all in on "face value/no context" or all in on "the whole story matters". One doesn't get a pass and the other does.
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Why aren't MP and Labrie in good terms? What happened? Source?
Only speculation, but Mike has talked shit about James over the years, and I'd assume James doesn't like that too much. He may have even been the main person keeping Mike from doing collaborations, which in turn would cause Mike's dislike.
I know I'm the one that usually ignores all the facts out there - :P - but let's not forget: "I'm glad he's gone", "We finally feel free", "I can now be the frontman instead of sharing the stage" (yeah, you stepped it up, bud; 51 minutes behind the amp line playing Candy Crush instead of the former 53 minutes); "What he did wasn't really that hard or special"; "We as a band will each take a little piece of what Mike did and we'll do it; you won't notice a thing!" (still waiting on that Ytsejam batch, and the rotating setlists, James!).
Well, probably out of all DT members, James is the one that didn't hide behind a PR politeness as good as the others, but I understand his frustation at the comments from Mike about not chosing him again if given the chance... can you imagine in reverse the same statements? James saying "Well, Mike's great and all but right now we're all laid back dude so if given the chance we'd pick a less flamboyant drummer"?
That's like Steve Harris saying "Well, we picked Blaze Bayley because he's british, if Doogie White wasn't american he would have been a better choice", or Judas Priest saying "We picked Ripper because he's a clone, if we could find someone else now we'd go for a singer with a different style"... that's something you just don't say about a bandmate.
Also, JL wasn't the only one saying some of those things. I think it was JR who said it wasn't rocket science, referring to the things Mike did. JR also was the one who mentioned several times, about feeling a bit freer. I don't think JL actually ever said I'm glad he's gone. He just said he wasn't sad, and that made sense in the context of the full interview.
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Not sure what you mean. Or, if you think I'm saying he should be considered a better frontman than he actually is because of DT, I'm not. I think he is a good frontman, period. Maybe he wouldn't be a good frontman for Van Halen, but I think I'd still prefer him over Roth. DLR would, to me, be a horrible frontman for DT. I could create my own band and pick any frontman, it wouldn't be the guys you listed. If I was told I could put any voice on them (I could have JL's voice and DLR's behavior), I still wouldn't do it. Like I said I think we want different things out of a frontman.
What I'm saying is, "being a great frontman for DT" doesn't mean "great front man". Ace Frehley was the PERFECT guitar player for Kiss; as much as I love his playing, he is not now and never will be a guitar player of the caliber of Ritchie Blackmore or Jimmy Page. I don't know what your sport is, but Phil Simms was the PERFECT quarterback for the New York Giants when they won the Super Bowl. He is not (and shouldn't be) anywhere near the list of the top 50 quarterbacks of all time. James is good for DT (though I have some problems with his stage banter and what not) but that doesn't put him at the level of Freddie or Bono. Not saying he couldn't rise to the occasion, but I've not seen it yet.
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I look at the whole MP and Shattered Fortress thing like this. It's like a romantic vacation that you planned with your wife for many years. You planned the trip, broke up with your wife for a younger woman(Avenged Sevenfold). The younger woman really does not want you long term. You try to go back to your wife then get mad at her for not taking you back and not taking that vacation that you planned for together.
IF that was the scenario, you're probably right. But we don't know that for certain. That was pieced together from comments from M. Shadows and a couple other people not including the "main five". It wouldn't be the first time a rock star threw another rock star under the bus for increased cred with their fan base (see Nikki Sixx).
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Why aren't MP and Labrie in good terms? What happened? Source?
Only speculation, but Mike has talked shit about James over the years, and I'd assume James doesn't like that too much. He may have even been the main person keeping Mike from doing collaborations, which in turn would cause Mike's dislike.
I know I'm the one that usually ignores all the facts out there - :P - but let's not forget: "I'm glad he's gone", "We finally feel free", "I can now be the frontman instead of sharing the stage" (yeah, you stepped it up, bud; 51 minutes behind the amp line playing Candy Crush instead of the former 53 minutes); "What he did wasn't really that hard or special"; "We as a band will each take a little piece of what Mike did and we'll do it; you won't notice a thing!" (still waiting on that Ytsejam batch, and the rotating setlists, James!).
Looks like a lot of out of context quotes.
Also, how many times did James retweet a fan saying how shitty Mike was?
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Why aren't MP and Labrie in good terms? What happened? Source?
Only speculation, but Mike has talked shit about James over the years, and I'd assume James doesn't like that too much. He may have even been the main person keeping Mike from doing collaborations, which in turn would cause Mike's dislike.
I know I'm the one that usually ignores all the facts out there - :P - but let's not forget: "I'm glad he's gone", "We finally feel free", "I can now be the frontman instead of sharing the stage" (yeah, you stepped it up, bud; 51 minutes behind the amp line playing Candy Crush instead of the former 53 minutes); "What he did wasn't really that hard or special"; "We as a band will each take a little piece of what Mike did and we'll do it; you won't notice a thing!" (still waiting on that Ytsejam batch, and the rotating setlists, James!).
Looks like a lot of out of context quotes.
Also, how many times did James retweet a fan saying how shitty Mike was?
Ah, but I just got lectured for three pages about how "context doesn't matter". So we're either in or we're out on "context".
As for the latter, I'll have to rely on others. I don't tweet and I haven't seen a tweet by James in... well, ever, probably.
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Why aren't MP and Labrie in good terms? What happened? Source?
Only speculation, but Mike has talked shit about James over the years, and I'd assume James doesn't like that too much. He may have even been the main person keeping Mike from doing collaborations, which in turn would cause Mike's dislike.
I know I'm the one that usually ignores all the facts out there - :P - but let's not forget: "I'm glad he's gone", "We finally feel free", "I can now be the frontman instead of sharing the stage" (yeah, you stepped it up, bud; 51 minutes behind the amp line playing Candy Crush instead of the former 53 minutes); "What he did wasn't really that hard or special"; "We as a band will each take a little piece of what Mike did and we'll do it; you won't notice a thing!" (still waiting on that Ytsejam batch, and the rotating setlists, James!).
Looks like a lot of out of context quotes.
Also, how many times did James retweet a fan saying how shitty Mike was?
Ah, but I just got lectured for three pages about how "context doesn't matter". So we're either in or we're out on "context".
As for the latter, I'll have to rely on others. I don't tweet and I haven't seen a tweet by James in... well, ever, probably.
I guess I missed the context discussion, but yes, context matters.
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Why aren't MP and Labrie in good terms? What happened? Source?
Only speculation, but Mike has talked shit about James over the years, and I'd assume James doesn't like that too much. He may have even been the main person keeping Mike from doing collaborations, which in turn would cause Mike's dislike.
I know I'm the one that usually ignores all the facts out there - :P - but let's not forget: "I'm glad he's gone", "We finally feel free", "I can now be the frontman instead of sharing the stage" (yeah, you stepped it up, bud; 51 minutes behind the amp line playing Candy Crush instead of the former 53 minutes); "What he did wasn't really that hard or special"; "We as a band will each take a little piece of what Mike did and we'll do it; you won't notice a thing!" (still waiting on that Ytsejam batch, and the rotating setlists, James!).
Looks like a lot of out of context quotes.
Also, how many times did James retweet a fan saying how shitty Mike was?
Ah, but I just got lectured for three pages about how "context doesn't matter". So we're either in or we're out on "context".
As for the latter, I'll have to rely on others. I don't tweet and I haven't seen a tweet by James in... well, ever, probably.
I guess I missed the context discussion, but yes, context matters.
Then I hate to break it to you, but you and I are on the same side on this. :)
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I don't mean to put you on the spot (and for all I know, you agree with me, so I'm arguing with myself) but if you can accommodate James' frustration, and understand why HE lashed out, why are we not willing to do that with Mike himself? You either go all in on "face value/no context" or all in on "the whole story matters". One doesn't get a pass and the other does.
AFAIK, I haven't seen JLB or any of the other DT members do any of those type of comments in the last few years while MP did a couple days ago. Just need to take a look at the stuff he has retweeted or liked on FB in the last weeks. He even removed some of the retweets he did on Twitter after being called out.
Edit: I think it was forgivable from everyone involved to be "emotionnal" the first year after the split up. But after 7 years, to air your dirty laundry in the public eye is bit immature.
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Ah, but I just got lectured for three pages about how "context doesn't matter". So we're either in or we're out on "context".
You're comparing apples to oranges there.
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I don't mean to put you on the spot (and for all I know, you agree with me, so I'm arguing with myself) but if you can accommodate James' frustration, and understand why HE lashed out, why are we not willing to do that with Mike himself? You either go all in on "face value/no context" or all in on "the whole story matters". One doesn't get a pass and the other does.
AFAIK, I haven't seen JLB or any of the other DT members do any of those type of comments in the last few years while MP did a couple days ago. Just need to take a look at the stuff he has retweeted or liked on FB in the last weeks. He even removed some of the retweets he did on Twitter after being called out.
Edit: I think it was forgivable from everyone involved to be "emotionnal" the first year after the split up. But after 7 years, to air your dirty laundry in the public eye is bit immature.
Did he remove some of the retweets? I thought I was just imagining things.
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Did he remove some of the retweets? I thought I was just imagining things.
He certainly did. He retweeted that: https://twitter.com/newmasterg/status/882400110977658880 and it was removed a couple hours later.
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Ah, but I just got lectured for three pages about how "context doesn't matter". So we're either in or we're out on "context".
You're comparing apples to oranges there.
This. If JL says 10 sentences, and you only quote one, you might be missing or changing the overall meaning of what was said. MP is not being misquoted here - we have what he wants us to see. We don't need to know the behind the scenes to disagree with MP's approach. Maybe every time he likes a negative comment about JL, it's because JL just called him and told him off. That would make Jl a jerk, and perhaps a stalker, but it still doesn't make what MP does right.
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Ah, but I just got lectured for three pages about how "context doesn't matter". So we're either in or we're out on "context".
You're comparing apples to oranges there.
This. If JL says 10 sentences, and you only quote one, you might be missing or changing the overall meaning of what was said. MP is not being misquoted here - we have what he wants us to see. We don't need to know the behind the scenes to disagree with MP's approach. Maybe every time he likes a negative comment about JL, it's because JL just called him and told him off. That would make Jl a jerk, and perhaps a stalker, but it still doesn't make what MP does right.
That is a funny image..
PHONE RINGS
Portnoy: Hello?
Labrie: I remember a time
My frail, virgin mind
Portnoy: (Hangs up) Jerk.
PHONE RINGS
Portnoy: Yes?
Labrie: Watched the crimson sunrise
Imagined what it might find...
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"Kill her. And get James as well."
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"Kill her. And get James as well."
Kill Victoria?
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"Kill her. And get James as well."
Kill Victoria?
:rollin :rollin :rollin
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Why aren't MP and Labrie in good terms? What happened? Source?
Only speculation, but Mike has talked shit about James over the years, and I'd assume James doesn't like that too much. He may have even been the main person keeping Mike from doing collaborations, which in turn would cause Mike's dislike.
I know I'm the one that usually ignores all the facts out there - :P - but let's not forget: "I'm glad he's gone", "We finally feel free", "I can now be the frontman instead of sharing the stage" (yeah, you stepped it up, bud; 51 minutes behind the amp line playing Candy Crush instead of the former 53 minutes); "What he did wasn't really that hard or special"; "We as a band will each take a little piece of what Mike did and we'll do it; you won't notice a thing!" (still waiting on that Ytsejam batch, and the rotating setlists, James!).
Let's see a link for all of those quotes. Most of them sound made up and/or interpretations of things JLB said that were far more innocuous than your rewrites.
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Why aren't MP and Labrie in good terms? What happened? Source?
Only speculation, but Mike has talked shit about James over the years, and I'd assume James doesn't like that too much. He may have even been the main person keeping Mike from doing collaborations, which in turn would cause Mike's dislike.
I know I'm the one that usually ignores all the facts out there - :P - but let's not forget: "I'm glad he's gone", "We finally feel free", "I can now be the frontman instead of sharing the stage" (yeah, you stepped it up, bud; 51 minutes behind the amp line playing Candy Crush instead of the former 53 minutes); "What he did wasn't really that hard or special"; "We as a band will each take a little piece of what Mike did and we'll do it; you won't notice a thing!" (still waiting on that Ytsejam batch, and the rotating setlists, James!).
Let's see a link for all of those quotes. Most of them sound made up and/or interpretations of things JLB said that were far more innocuous than your rewrites.
Yes, I'm waiting for the true quotes as well, because I don't recall anything of the sort as said by JLB.
B.Lee
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The "I can now be the frontman instead of sharing the stage" quote probably refers to the very first question in this interview:
https://www.prog-sphere.com/interviews/resurfacing-an-interview-with-james-labrie/
It actually makes sense once you take the entire answer into account, because many people would agree that was the case with the summer tour in 2011. Everything appeared much more balanced in terms of the behavior of band members on stage. None of it, however, was a direct slam at MP. JLB actually acknowledges MP was a big personality that wanted to be in the limelight, which I don't think is false. I don't think something that MP would admit to can also be seen as an attack on him.
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Why aren't MP and Labrie in good terms? What happened? Source?
Only speculation, but Mike has talked shit about James over the years, and I'd assume James doesn't like that too much. He may have even been the main person keeping Mike from doing collaborations, which in turn would cause Mike's dislike.
I know I'm the one that usually ignores all the facts out there - :P - but let's not forget: "I'm glad he's gone", "We finally feel free", "I can now be the frontman instead of sharing the stage" (yeah, you stepped it up, bud; 51 minutes behind the amp line playing Candy Crush instead of the former 53 minutes); "What he did wasn't really that hard or special"; "We as a band will each take a little piece of what Mike did and we'll do it; you won't notice a thing!" (still waiting on that Ytsejam batch, and the rotating setlists, James!).
Let's see a link for all of those quotes. Most of them sound made up and/or interpretations of things JLB said that were far more innocuous than your rewrites.
Gladly; give me some time to find them all and I will. Not making anything up; have no need to. I have no dog in this hunt and since my impartiality has been (repeatedly) called into question, so I'm not about to double down on made up shit. I'm on a call now, and will be at DMV tomorrow morning, but as soon as I can collect them, I will.
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The only thing I can find is the Progsphere article.
The singer says: “We were talking about how everything is much more balanced and everyone is in their role or their position.
“It’s where things should be on stage where it’s not somebody in the background trying to grab the limelight, when maybe they should just be grooving or whatever.
“But that’s Mike’s character: he’s big and he wants to be in the limelight. The problem with that is it takes away from the bigger picture: the band as a unit. Which the link was just posted on a previous post.
“A lot of people have been commenting since we started out on this tour. They’re saying, ‘It feels more like watching a band, with somebody up front singing and interacting, and everybody else just back there.
“There’s always moments when the spotlight’s on the other members, and it should be. But it creates more of a balance.
“We were talking about it and saying, ‘You know, this is really cool – it feels like a unit.’ So it’s a lot better.”
LaBrie states he’s not in communication with Portnoy. “I haven’t talked to Mike since the announcement he was considering leaving the band. The last time I verbally spoke to him and I heard his voice was on the conference call when he finally said, ‘Yes, I’m leaving the band.’ So that was it.”
Or this, once again not Portnoy bashing just saying they moved on. It probably seems like bashing to Portnoy because I think he badly wants back in.
Radio Futuro [via Blabbermouth] conducted an interview with Labrie, asking for his opinion on the possible return of founding member Mike Portnoy.
“That possibility, I don’t see it ever happening. It’s not gonna happen, because, first and foremost, Mike Mangini is a full-fledged member of the band now; he’s a phenomenal drummer and he’s doing everything that we could possibly want as a drummer in a band. He’s helping us realize exactly what we wanna do right now musically. And he will be our drummer until the day that we finish doing this, when we conclude.”
LaBrie adds, “Mike Portnoy was a big part of our past, but I think that’s where it’s going to remain. He was a drummer from the past. And as far as presently and into the future, it will be Mike Mangini, and we all feel very strongly about that. He’s an incredible drummer, he’s an incredible asset to the band, and he is fulfilling out wildest dreams as far as what we’re doing musically and what we’re doing with each album. So that’s the way it stands.”
Read More: Dream Theater Frontman Nixes Mike Portnoy Reunion Talk | https://loudwire.com/james-labrie-dream-theater-reunion-mike-portnoy-not-happening/?trackback=tsmclip
Or possibly this, but I don't view it as a slam on Mike, just that they have to move forward.
Q: Are you sad, James? I mean, this is a huge shift in the world of DREAM THEATER and progressive rock. It's a fucking earthquake.
LaBrie: "You know what?! I'm not sad at all. I've gotta be honest with you. I think that everyone out there needs to know that there's four guys in the band that are... We're excited, we're really looking forward to the next chapter. And I think one of the other things that everyone really has to remember is that there's four more-than-capable guys there. We're all extremely... I know everyone is out there going, 'Holy shit! Is this guy full of himself or what?' But I wanna say it like it is. There's four very capable people in the band, and we're all talented and we all know what we're doing, and we're all capable of doing everything and keeping DREAM THEATER exactly what it's been and bringing it to another level and bringing it to uncharted waters, but I think very exciting and fulfilling waters. So, no, we're not down. I can guarantee you none of us are down. We're actially pretty excited... and very positive."
Read more at https://www.blabbermouth.net/news/dream-theater-singer-says-he-s-not-sad-at-all-following-mike-portnoy-s-departure.html#O0GzSC8ohSBdU6Sy.99
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Maybe this...
On the fact that DREAM THEATER is replacing more than just a drummer — Portnoy was the band's mascot, chief interviewee, driver of concepts, selector of setlists and was always at the forefront when the band was deliberating over a musical direction:
LaBrie: "Yes, Mike was all about those things and not to simplify it or belittle it, but that will just have to be something that we allocate to each and every one of us to take over. So that will be a major difference in the band. Instead of one person handling all of those responsibilities, it's going to be spread out over four others."
Rudess: "I guess we're excited about being able to look at all the cool stuff Mike did and spread them around a bit. We've got an amazing team of managers and tour managers, we're all very capable guys and we're not scared. This is not rocket science. This is not curing cancer, this is a rock band, and I think we can handle it."
Read more at https://www.blabbermouth.net/news/mike-portnoy-thought-he-could-control-dream-theater-says-keyboardist-rudess.html#Cf21MsGm04PqYLAl.99
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Q: Are you sad, James? I mean, this is a huge shift in the world of DREAM THEATER and progressive rock. It's a fucking earthquake.
LaBrie: "You know what?! I'm not sad at all. I've gotta be honest with you. I think that everyone out there needs to know that there's four guys in the band that are... We're excited, we're really looking forward to the next chapter. And I think one of the other things that everyone really has to remember is that there's four more-than-capable guys there. We're all extremely... I know everyone is out there going, 'Holy shit! Is this guy full of himself or what?' But I wanna say it like it is. There's four very capable people in the band, and we're all talented and we all know what we're doing, and we're all capable of doing everything and keeping DREAM THEATER exactly what it's been and bringing it to another level and bringing it to uncharted waters, but I think very exciting and fulfilling waters. So, no, we're not down. I can guarantee you none of us are down. We're actially pretty excited... and very positive."
I'll tell you that that is a big part of anything I would cite. Mike "tells it like it is" and he's a passive aggressive dickhead, and no context matter, but James "tells it like it is" and it's just him being honest.
The fact is, they DIDN'T "do everything", and while you can say "The Astonishing" is "uncharted waters", there's a lot of things that isn't at another level.
And short of one Christmas release, they didn't do ANY of the things that Mike did.
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If bosk1 could trade DT-MP wife/baby metaphors for a dollar each, he could probably retire early and indefinitely pay for upkeep of the site at this point :lol
Don't let a lack of replies give you the wrong idea, this was definitely appreciated, by me at least. :lol
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What are we even talking about here? And why are old James quotes being brought up?
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What are we even talking about here? And why are old James quotes being brought up?
I posted them based on what Stadler said. He got me curious. so I started looking up what James said. I can see where James is probably happy, MP is out of DT but I don't think he bashes him and he certainly doesn't retweet if someone posts a good review of DT by saying "DT was so amazing, so much better with MP gone, DT is good again"
Quote from: KevShmev on Today at 12:36:13 PM
Quote from: Stadler on Today at 08:45:22 AM
Quote from: Zook on July 08, 2017, 03:35:40 PM
Quote from: ChuckSteak on July 08, 2017, 03:22:31 PM
Why aren't MP and Labrie in good terms? What happened? Source?
Only speculation, but Mike has talked shit about James over the years, and I'd assume James doesn't like that too much. He may have even been the main person keeping Mike from doing collaborations, which in turn would cause Mike's dislike.
I know I'm the one that usually ignores all the facts out there - :P - but let's not forget: "I'm glad he's gone", "We finally feel free", "I can now be the frontman instead of sharing the stage" (yeah, you stepped it up, bud; 51 minutes behind the amp line playing Candy Crush instead of the former 53 minutes); "What he did wasn't really that hard or special"; "We as a band will each take a little piece of what Mike did and we'll do it; you won't notice a thing!" (still waiting on that Ytsejam batch, and the rotating setlists, James!).
Let's see a link for all of those quotes. Most of them sound made up and/or interpretations of things JLB said that were far more innocuous than your rewrites.
Gladly; give me some time to find them all and I will. Not making anything up; have no need to. I have no dog in this hunt and since my impartiality has been (repeatedly) called into question, so I'm not about to double down on made up shit. I'm on a call now, and will be at DMV tomorrow morning, but as soon as I can collect them, I will.
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Saw one of the Mike Portnoy's Shattered Fortress shows a few weeks ago. It was fantastic. :)
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Any old 'mean' quotes from James pale in comparison to the sheer amount of public/social media posts MP made after the split....especially directly after the split.....AND near every JLB quote that could be deemed 'mean' was in direct response to something MP said/posted, they weren't preemptive
There's simply no way that one can make any argument placing any of the DT/MP drama blame on anyone other than MP.
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Any old 'mean' quotes from James pale in comparison to the sheer amount of public/social media posts MP made after the split....especially directly after the split.....AND near every JLB quote that could be deemed 'mean' was in direct response to something MP said/posted, they weren't preemptive
There's simply no way that one can make any argument placing any of the DT/MP drama blame on anyone other than MP.
This.
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Any old 'mean' quotes from James pale in comparison to the sheer amount of public/social media posts MP made after the split....especially directly after the split.....AND near every JLB quote that could be deemed 'mean' was in direct response to something MP said/posted, they weren't preemptive
There's simply no way that one can make any argument placing any of the DT/MP drama blame on anyone other than MP.
You have to admire the persistence of Stadler to argue otherwise, though. :lol :lol
Meanwhile, in social media land...
(https://i.imgur.com/a6aHQLF.png)
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That is just a weird response.
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Why would he even bother answering those Facebook posts?
Yeah, David Kaiser was an ass (like the thousands of them that post on places like Facebook or Youtube), but MP should know better than to get down to that guy's level.
The beer taster thing was very hard to read lol.
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I don't know.. I don't find the response being weird or like something he shouldn't be doing.. What really bothers me are those attacks to DT without any solid argument or sense.. That we need context to fully understand what MP is talking about specifically, yes; but why does he has to say or write something that only he and the band would understand, when those sayings and writings are meant to be for us, the fans?..
I know we're all agreeing here that it wouldn't be a smart choice to unveil what that context is (if there's one so important or publicly unknown anyways), but maybe instead of hints he could give us the full story.. Otherwise, please, stop making those comments... But (back to what I was originally saying)... a response to a guy on the internet?.. I don't see why not, as long as it's not -also- a new unfortunate hurtful comment against DT..
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My friends and I routinely greet each other with things like "Hey fuckface". Or "Blow me". Is that abusive? Not when you know we've been through thick, thin, love, hate, whatever for over 30 years.
But if you were around people that didn't know that you were actually buddies then how do you think they would react? Would they not think you guys were dicks? Is that how you want people to see you?
WHO CARES what's behind the scenes, MP keeps representing himself poorly, it DOES NOT MATTER the relationship in the background. Anyone who is new to Dream Theater would go online and see that their former drummer does nothing but talk shit about the current DT so is *that* how you want to introduce MP to people? As an abusive, spiteful, vengeful grudge-holder? Cuz that's all he comes across as.
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Why would he even bother answering those Facebook posts?
Yeah, David Kaiser was an ass (like the thousands of them that post on places like Facebook or Youtube), but MP should know better than to get down to that guy's level.
The beer taster thing was very hard to read lol.
If he felt the need to answer then the part in parenthesis would have been a good one. The current answer is such a bad move on MPs part.... and we have seen too many of those.
So far I have yet to see anything like it from anyone still within Dream Theater.
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Q: Are you sad, James? I mean, this is a huge shift in the world of DREAM THEATER and progressive rock. It's a fucking earthquake.
LaBrie: "You know what?! I'm not sad at all. I've gotta be honest with you. I think that everyone out there needs to know that there's four guys in the band that are... We're excited, we're really looking forward to the next chapter. And I think one of the other things that everyone really has to remember is that there's four more-than-capable guys there. We're all extremely... I know everyone is out there going, 'Holy shit! Is this guy full of himself or what?' But I wanna say it like it is. There's four very capable people in the band, and we're all talented and we all know what we're doing, and we're all capable of doing everything and keeping DREAM THEATER exactly what it's been and bringing it to another level and bringing it to uncharted waters, but I think very exciting and fulfilling waters. So, no, we're not down. I can guarantee you none of us are down. We're actially pretty excited... and very positive."
I'll tell you that that is a big part of anything I would cite. Mike "tells it like it is" and he's a passive aggressive dickhead, and no context matter, but James "tells it like it is" and it's just him being honest.
The fact is, they DIDN'T "do everything", and while you can say "The Astonishing" is "uncharted waters", there's a lot of things that isn't at another level.
And short of one Christmas release, they didn't do ANY of the things that Mike did.
I'm sorry, Stadler, but I'm beginning to wonder who you really are. I'm really suspecting you of being close to MP to take up arms the way you do. If you're just a fan, well, let me remind you one thing : MP doesn't care what you say or do to defend him. It would save you a lot of trouble to let it go sometimes.
And I'm still waiting, like others, for your exact JLB quotes.
B.Lee
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Any old 'mean' quotes from James pale in comparison to the sheer amount of public/social media posts MP made after the split....especially directly after the split.....AND near every JLB quote that could be deemed 'mean' was in direct response to something MP said/posted, they weren't preemptive
There's simply no way that one can make any argument placing any of the DT/MP drama blame on anyone other than MP.
You have to admire the persistence of Stadler to argue otherwise, though. :lol :lol
Meanwhile, in social media land...
(https://i.imgur.com/a6aHQLF.png)
I agree with Gary and Kev.
....And that MP response :lol
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Wow, that MP response should (well it already should have) shut the book on any discussion about MP being passive aggressive (or just flat out aggressive) on social media. That's nuts for him to make that comment about the beer tasting and calling out his high school. That's stalker level type of response and something I would expect from a unemployed troll living in the basement of their parent's house.
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Now I imagine Portnoy stalking my FB profile if I say something that pisses him off :biggrin:
(Though I would never troll him or anyone else just for the sake of it, when it comes to famous people I only post positive or neutral stuff, I don't think he ever replied to me but at times he liked a comment or two)
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(Though I would never troll him or anyone else just for the sake of it, when it comes to famous people I only post positive or neutral stuff, I don't think he ever replied to me but at times he liked a comment or two)
This is how I approach social media as well. You have to understand that what you put out there will be seen by many and it will always be there (sure you can delete posts, but you can't delete the memories created by the people who saw it, or manage to screenshot it before the delete). It only makes you look bad if you are going to be negative (look at Trump's twitter). Just be positive and people aren't going to have bait to attack you with. Be the bigger person, especially if you are someone in the spotlight like MP.
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Imagine if Portnoy was more well known. He'd be on TMZ and in tabloids all the time!
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If bosk1 could trade DT-MP wife/baby metaphors for a dollar each, he could probably retire early and indefinitely pay for upkeep of the site at this point :lol
Don't let a lack of replies give you the wrong idea, this was definitely appreciated, by me at least. :lol
thanks :lol
Also, I don't really have an issue at all with Mike dunking on some jerk online.
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Q: Are you sad, James? I mean, this is a huge shift in the world of DREAM THEATER and progressive rock. It's a fucking earthquake.
LaBrie: "You know what?! I'm not sad at all. I've gotta be honest with you. I think that everyone out there needs to know that there's four guys in the band that are... We're excited, we're really looking forward to the next chapter. And I think one of the other things that everyone really has to remember is that there's four more-than-capable guys there. We're all extremely... I know everyone is out there going, 'Holy shit! Is this guy full of himself or what?' But I wanna say it like it is. There's four very capable people in the band, and we're all talented and we all know what we're doing, and we're all capable of doing everything and keeping DREAM THEATER exactly what it's been and bringing it to another level and bringing it to uncharted waters, but I think very exciting and fulfilling waters. So, no, we're not down. I can guarantee you none of us are down. We're actially pretty excited... and very positive."
I'll tell you that that is a big part of anything I would cite. Mike "tells it like it is" and he's a passive aggressive dickhead, and no context matter, but James "tells it like it is" and it's just him being honest.
The fact is, they DIDN'T "do everything", and while you can say "The Astonishing" is "uncharted waters", there's a lot of things that isn't at another level.
And short of one Christmas release, they didn't do ANY of the things that Mike did.
I'm sorry, Stadler, but I'm beginning to wonder who you really are. I'm really suspecting you of being close to MP to take up arms the way you do. If you're just a fan, well, let me remind you one thing : MP doesn't care what you say or do to defend him. It would save you a lot of trouble to let it go sometimes.
And I'm still waiting, like others, for your exact JLB quotes.
B.Lee
Ok, that's kind of out of line. Who cares who I am? I'm not allowed to have my take on this? It's not a contest, I don't actually give two fucks what people think of me - short of my family and my close friends - so what does it matter to you?
I've never met the man, I have no dog in this hunt, other than an abiding sense of fair play and a finely tuned nose for bullshit, and some of this is over the top. (There is a fair amount of truth to Setlist Scotty's signature). To some degree - for example, in some of the P/R threads - I feel like I know how he feels at times when people think they can tell him what's best for him and his life and his career. Is Mike perfect? Of course not. Are there times he should just put the phone down and let it go? Of course. But who cares if he goes off on that guy for giving him unwanted and out-of-bounds life advice (not, I might add, dissimilar to some of the people here)? If you want to conduct your social media campaign in a certain manner, feel free to do so; I notice Mike isn't telling anyone else how to conduct their lives. Let Mike run his in his own way, assuming he's willing to assume the consequences. He's played in countless bands, released more records than any modern rock musician I can name off the top of my head, and some douche posting on Twitter from his moms basement in between games of Call of Duty is going to tell him what's best? Mofo, please.
None of this means squat in the grand scheme of things - it's an OPINION. I choose to see a bigger picture and have an open mind on what Mike says. You don't. So be it. Tomayto, tomahto.
And I've already said that much of what I would have posted was in Bill1971's post. If you'd like me to duplicate all that and repost it, I'd be more than willing to. I feel like it wouldn't change one mind here. You've already made it clear that "context" is not important in the least.
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You know, that second part is pretty sensible indeed. If he had really though that, there would have been no need for that first post. That's some double standards right there.
In the first post, he asked for the same sensitivity and understanding that he was offering to put forward in the second post. It's not as if DT/Portnoy are Van Halen and Roth, or U2 or Bruce Springsteen; it's a tight knit group. A fan who's not trying to be a dick would know better. I don't think it was too much to ask.
Since you're replying directly to me, I'll do the same. Sorry that this post is already 3 pages down, stuff moves quickly in this thread :lol
The point I was merely trying to make was that Mike Portnoy shouldn't have to care what the hell his fans are wearing to whatever signing session he is doing. Why should he give a shit whether this person is wearing a DT shirt, a mangini era DT-shirt, a shirt that has some vulgar language, or no shirt it all? It has nothing to do with the event. By showing up, that fan shows that he has interest in Mike Portnoy, him wearing an ADTOE-shirt has nothing to do with that. Singling that fan out and ranting about it over the internet accomplishes absolutely nothing besides showing the world that you're incapable of letting go. Responding to the imminent backlash (which MP should know he can get, he's pretty much a public figure after all) with a 'I'm into peace, love and understanding' seems hypocritical at best. 'Live and let live' also means that his fans can wear whatever the fuck they want without MP having to get upset about the fact that it contains an image of a DT album he wasn't part of.
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Any old 'mean' quotes from James pale in comparison to the sheer amount of public/social media posts MP made after the split....especially directly after the split.....AND near every JLB quote that could be deemed 'mean' was in direct response to something MP said/posted, they weren't preemptive
There's simply no way that one can make any argument placing any of the DT/MP drama blame on anyone other than MP.
You have to admire the persistence of Stadler to argue otherwise, though. :lol :lol
Meanwhile, in social media land...
(https://i.imgur.com/a6aHQLF.png)
I seriously have to wonder if his twitter was hacked.
Stadler just for the record since I have been posting old James Labrie quotes that I truly have no issue with you defending or trying to be fair to Mike, you are someone on a message board voicing your opinion and that's cool. Actually I wish you did know Mike and he hired you as his PR rep, you have more level headed responses than he does. :)
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Q: Are you sad, James? I mean, this is a huge shift in the world of DREAM THEATER and progressive rock. It's a fucking earthquake.
LaBrie: "You know what?! I'm not sad at all. I've gotta be honest with you. I think that everyone out there needs to know that there's four guys in the band that are... We're excited, we're really looking forward to the next chapter. And I think one of the other things that everyone really has to remember is that there's four more-than-capable guys there. We're all extremely... I know everyone is out there going, 'Holy shit! Is this guy full of himself or what?' But I wanna say it like it is. There's four very capable people in the band, and we're all talented and we all know what we're doing, and we're all capable of doing everything and keeping DREAM THEATER exactly what it's been and bringing it to another level and bringing it to uncharted waters, but I think very exciting and fulfilling waters. So, no, we're not down. I can guarantee you none of us are down. We're actially pretty excited... and very positive."
I'll tell you that that is a big part of anything I would cite. Mike "tells it like it is" and he's a passive aggressive dickhead, and no context matter, but James "tells it like it is" and it's just him being honest.
The fact is, they DIDN'T "do everything", and while you can say "The Astonishing" is "uncharted waters", there's a lot of things that isn't at another level.
And short of one Christmas release, they didn't do ANY of the things that Mike did.
I'm sorry, Stadler, but I'm beginning to wonder who you really are. I'm really suspecting you of being close to MP to take up arms the way you do. If you're just a fan, well, let me remind you one thing : MP doesn't care what you say or do to defend him. It would save you a lot of trouble to let it go sometimes.
And I'm still waiting, like others, for your exact JLB quotes.
B.Lee
Ok, that's kind of out of line. Who cares who I am? I'm not allowed to have my take on this? It's not a contest, I don't actually give two fucks what people think of me - short of my family and my close friends - so what does it matter to you?
I've never met the man, I have no dog in this hunt, other than an abiding sense of fair play and a finely tuned nose for bullshit, and some of this is over the top. (There is a fair amount of truth to Setlist Scotty's signature). To some degree - for example, in some of the P/R threads - I feel like I know how he feels at times when people think they can tell him what's best for him and his life and his career. Is Mike perfect? Of course not. Are there times he should just put the phone down and let it go? Of course. But who cares if he goes off on that guy for giving him unwanted and out-of-bounds life advice (not, I might add, dissimilar to some of the people here)? If you want to conduct your social media campaign in a certain manner, feel free to do so; I notice Mike isn't telling anyone else how to conduct their lives. Let Mike run his in his own way, assuming he's willing to assume the consequences. He's played in countless bands, released more records than any modern rock musician I can name off the top of my head, and some douche posting on Twitter from his moms basement in between games of Call of Duty is going to tell him what's best? Mofo, please.
None of this means squat in the grand scheme of things - it's an OPINION. I choose to see a bigger picture and have an open mind on what Mike says. You don't. So be it. Tomayto, tomahto.
And I've already said that much of what I would have posted was in Bill1971's post. If you'd like me to duplicate all that and repost it, I'd be more than willing to. I feel like it wouldn't change one mind here. You've already made it clear that "context" is not important in the least.
Now, Stadler, did I take sides in there? Because I'm sorry, but I cannot see it.
You don't give two fucks about what others think of you : good for you as I don't care for you either. I did not insult you in my post but you chose to insult me.
Where did I write you couldn't have an opinion? Sorry, an OPINION as you chose to write. Btw, shouting won't have people shut it up.
As for your last condescending remark, where, again, did I write that context did not matter? Again, you choose to twist things up to have your way. Just as you do from the very beginning.
And you evaded my last question : where are JLB's exact quotes?
B.Lee
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Arguing that you have a right to your opinion is truly the last gasp of a losing argument. Stadler takes debate lessons from Portnoy, apparently.
Does that work in the courtroom Stadler?
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who cares if he goes off on that guy for giving him unwanted and out-of-bounds life advice (not, I might add, dissimilar to some of the people here)? If you want to conduct your social media campaign in a certain manner, feel free to do so; I notice Mike isn't telling anyone else how to conduct their lives. Let Mike run his in his own way, assuming he's willing to assume the consequences.
I feel the same about this in particular.. He's famous, yeah, but that doesn't necessarily imply that he can't reply to his fans even when that comment and/or his reply are aggressive in some way.. That's how some simply are; and MP is that type of guy.. But, having said that, the only thing I don't see like being right coming from him (a famous person) is the way he manages to use other's posts on social media or interviewers' questions to talk shit about DT, especially about James.. I wanna believe none of us is in favor of that..
The point I was merely trying to make was that Mike Portnoy shouldn't have to care what the hell his fans are wearing to whatever signing session he is doing. Why should he give a shit whether this person is wearing a DT shirt, a mangini era DT-shirt, a shirt that has some vulgar language, or no shirt it all?
This is an example of telling other people how they should feel or not feel.. I think is fine and absolutely understandable that he felt that way; the problem, again, may be to express it on social media, spreading the hatred all over again and hurting, this time, other's people feelings (to use his very same words)..
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MP should create a popcorn company, I'm telling ya. Millions could be made.
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MP should create a popcorn company, I'm telling ya. Millions could be made.
Judging by his social media, it'd be way too salty.
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Let Mike run his in his own way, assuming he's willing to assume the consequences. He's played in countless bands, released more records than any modern rock musician I can name off the top of my head, and some douche posting on Twitter from his moms basement in between games of Call of Duty is going to tell him what's best? Mofo, please.
None of this means squat in the grand scheme of things - it's an OPINION. I choose to see a bigger picture and have an open mind on what Mike says. You don't. So be it. Tomayto, tomahto.
I think you're being very unfair to the "douche" on Twitter by making unfair assumptions about him and his life, and ignoring the context of the conversation as a whole.
I, for one, CHOOSE to look at his point of view and take into account all the things I don't know about him. Why unfairly assume that he plays Call of Duty or that he lives in his mom's basement?
Perhaps MP sent him a very rude private message first, which provoked him to write the post in the first place. And now MP may have taken advantage of this by replying rudely and insulting him in public.
It's possible - you cannot rule out with 100% certainty - that there is more to this exchange than meets the eye, and I am BEING FAIR by choosing to not pass judgment on the kid's character and life choices and place of residence, unlike you.
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MP should create a popcorn company, I'm telling ya. Millions could be made.
Judging by his social media, it'd be way too salty.
:rollin
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I am sure most musicians and celebrities and get bashed on social media. It must be tough but at the same time it comes with the territory and the best bet is to take the mature road and not take the bait. If I were to walk through a playground and a bunch of kids started saying "what a dork you are" or something similar, I would probably smirk and keep walking not turn to them and say "oh yeah?? You're a doodee head" Or even if people hit something personal like a past breakup or something, you have to just take the mature route and if it is very hard, hire someone to help you or stay off social media.
I am sure Geddy must have seen tons of comments about him not singing as good as he did or whatever.
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MP should create a popcorn company, I'm telling ya. Millions could be made.
Judging by his social media, it'd be way too salty.
:rollin
:rollin
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JP himself at some point said that he doesn't look at online comments. I think most smart musicians keep it that way.
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The next time a celebrity gets in to it with the anonymous twitt/face world and comes out ahead, it will be the first time.
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You know, that second part is pretty sensible indeed. If he had really though that, there would have been no need for that first post. That's some double standards right there.
In the first post, he asked for the same sensitivity and understanding that he was offering to put forward in the second post. It's not as if DT/Portnoy are Van Halen and Roth, or U2 or Bruce Springsteen; it's a tight knit group. A fan who's not trying to be a dick would know better. I don't think it was too much to ask.
Since you're replying directly to me, I'll do the same. Sorry that this post is already 3 pages down, stuff moves quickly in this thread :lol
The point I was merely trying to make was that Mike Portnoy shouldn't have to care what the hell his fans are wearing to whatever signing session he is doing. Why should he give a shit whether this person is wearing a DT shirt, a mangini era DT-shirt, a shirt that has some vulgar language, or no shirt it all? It has nothing to do with the event. By showing up, that fan shows that he has interest in Mike Portnoy, him wearing an ADTOE-shirt has nothing to do with that. Singling that fan out and ranting about it over the internet accomplishes absolutely nothing besides showing the world that you're incapable of letting go. Responding to the imminent backlash (which MP should know he can get, he's pretty much a public figure after all) with a 'I'm into peace, love and understanding' seems hypocritical at best. 'Live and let live' also means that his fans can wear whatever the fuck they want without MP having to get upset about the fact that it contains an image of a DT album he wasn't part of.
Look, what I'm about to write isn't about you personally, it's not an attack, but what you wrote gave me the idea for the following. So please take it in the broad spirit it is intended:
And my point made.
When Mike is the RECIPIENT (i.e. the LISTENER) the onus is on the LISTENER to tolerate whatever is said to him, verbally or otherwise, and he has to swallow it, or at least interpret it in the nicest way possible. But when Mike is the GIVER (i.e. the SPEAKER) the onus is on the SPEAKER to make sure it's said in the nicest, least passive-aggressive, least dickhead way, social media or otherwise, so that there is no chance of any misinterpretation, no chance that anyone in his old band might be offended, or otherwise slighted in any way. Further to that, when James is the RECIPIENT, the onus is on the SPEAKER (Mike) to make sure there is no offense whatsoever, and when James is the SPEAKER, the onus is on the RECIPIENT (Mike) to understand that it's just James expressing is honest feelings about the way things are in the new world of DT.
In other words, it's on Mike. He has to be perfect, without emotion, without feeling and lizard-like alligator skin to make sure nothing penetrates, but should treat everyone as if they are an eggshell, fragile and in danger of being hurt, broken or worse.
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Dude, if you can't see a pretty stark difference between the way James has spoken about stuff vs. the Mike does, I dunno what to say.
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I think a lot of people are turned off because when you initiate the break up and you're still talking about it 6 years later it comes off bad.
Mike's got it good with all the band's he's playing in now. Focus on the positive.
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...
In other words, it's on Mike. He has to be perfect, without emotion, without feeling and lizard-like alligator skin to make sure nothing penetrates, but should treat everyone as if they are an eggshell, fragile and in danger of being hurt, broken or worse.
It's on Mike... but it is also on James, John, John, Jordan and Mike.
Don't you think they get hurt as well? Mike P has said and wrote a lot of things that have probably hurt them, espescially James.... you don't see them making passive agressive attacks at Mike.
Love the guy as an artist and entertainer but his social media persona... not so much.
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I'm sorry, Stadler, but I'm beginning to wonder who you really are. I'm really suspecting you of being close to MP to take up arms the way you do. If you're just a fan, well, let me remind you one thing : MP doesn't care what you say or do to defend him. It would save you a lot of trouble to let it go sometimes.
And I'm still waiting, like others, for your exact JLB quotes.
B.Lee
Ok, that's kind of out of line. Who cares who I am? I'm not allowed to have my take on this? It's not a contest, I don't actually give two fucks what people think of me - short of my family and my close friends - so what does it matter to you?
I've never met the man, I have no dog in this hunt, other than an abiding sense of fair play and a finely tuned nose for bullshit, and some of this is over the top. (There is a fair amount of truth to Setlist Scotty's signature). To some degree - for example, in some of the P/R threads - I feel like I know how he feels at times when people think they can tell him what's best for him and his life and his career. Is Mike perfect? Of course not. Are there times he should just put the phone down and let it go? Of course. But who cares if he goes off on that guy for giving him unwanted and out-of-bounds life advice (not, I might add, dissimilar to some of the people here)? If you want to conduct your social media campaign in a certain manner, feel free to do so; I notice Mike isn't telling anyone else how to conduct their lives. Let Mike run his in his own way, assuming he's willing to assume the consequences. He's played in countless bands, released more records than any modern rock musician I can name off the top of my head, and some douche posting on Twitter from his moms basement in between games of Call of Duty is going to tell him what's best? Mofo, please.
None of this means squat in the grand scheme of things - it's an OPINION. I choose to see a bigger picture and have an open mind on what Mike says. You don't. So be it. Tomayto, tomahto.
And I've already said that much of what I would have posted was in Bill1971's post. If you'd like me to duplicate all that and repost it, I'd be more than willing to. I feel like it wouldn't change one mind here. You've already made it clear that "context" is not important in the least.
Now, Stadler, did I take sides in there? Because I'm sorry, but I cannot see it.
You don't give two fucks about what others think of you : good for you as I don't care for you either. I did not insult you in my post but you chose to insult me.
I did not insult you; I CERTAINLY did not say "I don't care for you" but at least it's out in the open, now, right? In fact, I (implicitly) respected your opinion, and only asked that you do the same.
Where did I write you couldn't have an opinion? Sorry, an OPINION as you chose to write. Btw, shouting won't have people shut it up.
You questioned my personal bona fides, as if no one in their right mind without an agenda could possibly hold the position I do. And as for the "don't shout", I've been doing this quite a while here and elsewhere (with people that post here) and have a style. I'm sorry it doesn't fly with you, I truly am, but little comments - which could be construed as anywhere from naively helpful to childishly pedantic - aren't really going to change anything at this point. It's how I write.
As for your last condescending remark, where, again, did I write that context did not matter? Again, you choose to twist things up to have your way. Just as you do from the very beginning.
Fair point; I assumed you have been reading the various posts over the past few pages and abuot 90% of my argument ISN'T that Mike is perfect and right and glorious in all he does (I rather agree with the idea that some of the posts are unnecessary) but rather that the context of WHY he posts (and what he posts) is important and many - most, if not all, let's be honest as I'm fair both ways - don't agree with me and feel he should be judged on the individual post itself every time and no context is relevant.
And you evaded my last question : where are JLB's exact quotes?
B.Lee
I most certainly did not "evade your last question". I've shown you far more respect than you've shown me; I clearly stated that most of what I WOULD have posted was included in Bill1971's post - including the "exact quotes" you're looking for - so unless you wanted me to simply repeat his post, I was going to consider my obligation met. As that's clearly not good enough for you, I'll get right on it. I don't have to get Mike's coffee or prepare his bath for another couple hours, so I have time now.
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Stadler, I see where you're coming from, but that has nothing to do with the (rather random) three-year-old facebook exchange/situation that I based my post on. To further that, I haven't said anything about JLB in this entire thread and I'm not looking to bash any sides here. Unless I'm completely misunderstanding your post, with my 'quote' just being a preamble for your idea. Yes, things get blown out of proportion, but I do not think people are purposefully bashing MP *just* to get at him.
(Then again, I didn't at all get your VH/U2/Springsteen analogy, so I might have misunderstood everything :lol )
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YAWN
MP shouldn't have said anything publicly, and if JLB did say some things (and I will give Stadler this, I do remember JLB saying a few things in interviews that danced around the MP thing that weren't complimentary toward him -- I just couldn't give you exact statements, but the things Stadler posted were generally what I remember), then he shouldn't have either.
The bottom line is, this was a nasty breakup, with one party airing some of it out, and his own personal frustrations in public (a mistake) and the other side being less public, but probably pretty vicious in private, from a legal standpoint (if I recall, there was a lawsuit).
So in other words, everyone screwed up. And to date, none of the parties have done enough to make everything happy again. OK.
Case closed...until it isn't again.
Hey, how about this, DT fans get MP and DT in the same calendar year, doing incredible sets! :metal :tup
If MP wanted to really iron things out with JLB or anyone else, all he has to do is go to their house, and ring them up outside the front gate. It'll happen. And if neither side is willing to do something like that and take care of it in private, then they both obviously aren't really that interested in reconciling.
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Dude, if you can't see a pretty stark difference between the way James has spoken about stuff vs. the Mike does, I dunno what to say.
It's not about seeing the difference. I see the difference. I'm not stupid. I don't put the same weight on the difference - or I should say, I can explain the difference reasonably with context - and others can't/won't/whatever. that's their right. I'm less about telling everyone they're wrong than I am wondering why I have to defend my person because I don't choose to go along with the common wisdom. Bertielee flat out said he/she doesn't care about me. I have never once ever said that about anyone here. It's not personal, and yet, on this topic it seems to be.
For me, what James said/did would have pissed me off royally, and I'm not privy to half of what went on in the background. Two people who know - not "might know" or "could know" - but actually DO know said there's more to the story. I want to know that story before I draw any conclusions, especially one's that require me to call one of the parties a "passive aggressive dickhead". That's all I'm saying.
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YAWN
This!
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Stadler, I see where you're coming from, but that has nothing to do with the (rather random) three-year-old facebook exchange/situation that I based my post on. To further that, I haven't said anything about JLB in this entire thread and I'm not looking to bash any sides here. Unless I'm completely misunderstanding your post, with my 'quote' just being a preamble for your idea. Yes, things get blown out of proportion, but I do not think people are purposefully bashing MP *just* to get at him.
(Then again, I didn't at all get your VH/U2/Springsteen analogy, so I might have misunderstood everything :lol )
The U2/Van Halen/Springsteen analogy was about the size of the camps. Honestly, at this point, Bono and Roth and Bruce are caricatures. We don't know what they're thinking, we don't know their inner workings, and I imagine every Tweet from them is carefully crafted by a team of PR experts to maximize revenue/political impact and minimize tabloid fallout. Mike is not that. We can see his phone in the interviews, and we know he does this personally. We know he is real, as he walks out of studios to gather fans from outside to sing on his albums. We know the stories behind the songs, we know the inner workings (to an extent) of the band. We have the "Making of Systematic Chaos" DVD where there is CLEARLY tension between Mike and James, and not all of it from Mike. That's where I was going.
Elite, I don't at all want or expect that you agree with me. You saying you "understand" is enough, and I appreciate you having the conversation in a mature way. Sincerely. As I said elsewhere, none of this is going to solve world peace, get Oasis back together, or get The Cars into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. It's just friendly conversation between fans of a band with a little bit of drama in their rear view mirror.
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To be honest, I kind of wish I could unfollow this thread. It's just turned into a clusterfuck of people bitching and fighting about MP.
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By showing up, that fan shows that he has interest in Mike Portnoy, him wearing an ADTOE-shirt has nothing to do with that.
Not necessarily. I've read enough posts from plenty of jerks online who would wear an ADToE just to intentionally piss him off. I'm not going to justify MP calling out the fan the way he did since I don't agree with it, but while it's possible the fan was absent minded or oblivious to what he was doing, it's also very possible that he did it intentionally.
Dude, if you can't see a pretty stark difference between the way James has spoken about stuff vs. the Mike does, I dunno what to say.
There is no doubt that MP has posted different regrettable things, especially in the months following the breakup. However, as I think Stads was trying to point out (correct me if I'm wrong Stads), now every time MP posts anything or is interviewed and says something about DT, everybody's going to read anything/everything into it. Even some times when a new video interview or article is published that is pretty even keeled, some who are critics will acknowledge it's a decent interview, but there are plenty of others who still doubt what he's saying or try to read between the lines. That doesn't happen with any of his former band mates. As far as they're concerned, they're completely innocent and have done no wrong. Not saying some criticism for MP isn't warranted, but some people seem to go above and beyond to find more stuff wrong than there really is.
I think a lot of people are turned off because when you initiate the break up and you're still talking about it 6 years later it comes off bad.
Mike's got it good with all the band's he's playing in now. Focus on the positive.
Well, let's remember that this year is a focus on TSF, so DT is going to be the topic of the interviews. But if you take a look at the vast majority of the interviews he's done previously, while he might answer DT based questions, he rarely, if ever is the one to bring it up, and the answers he gives are fairly neutral in nature. And I'd say that he does focus on all the bands/projects he's playing with, and on the positive.
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I'm sorry, Stadler, but I'm beginning to wonder who you really are. I'm really suspecting you of being close to MP to take up arms the way you do. If you're just a fan, well, let me remind you one thing : MP doesn't care what you say or do to defend him. It would save you a lot of trouble to let it go sometimes.
And I'm still waiting, like others, for your exact JLB quotes.
B.Lee
Ok, that's kind of out of line. Who cares who I am? I'm not allowed to have my take on this? It's not a contest, I don't actually give two fucks what people think of me - short of my family and my close friends - so what does it matter to you?
I've never met the man, I have no dog in this hunt, other than an abiding sense of fair play and a finely tuned nose for bullshit, and some of this is over the top. (There is a fair amount of truth to Setlist Scotty's signature). To some degree - for example, in some of the P/R threads - I feel like I know how he feels at times when people think they can tell him what's best for him and his life and his career. Is Mike perfect? Of course not. Are there times he should just put the phone down and let it go? Of course. But who cares if he goes off on that guy for giving him unwanted and out-of-bounds life advice (not, I might add, dissimilar to some of the people here)? If you want to conduct your social media campaign in a certain manner, feel free to do so; I notice Mike isn't telling anyone else how to conduct their lives. Let Mike run his in his own way, assuming he's willing to assume the consequences. He's played in countless bands, released more records than any modern rock musician I can name off the top of my head, and some douche posting on Twitter from his moms basement in between games of Call of Duty is going to tell him what's best? Mofo, please.
None of this means squat in the grand scheme of things - it's an OPINION. I choose to see a bigger picture and have an open mind on what Mike says. You don't. So be it. Tomayto, tomahto.
And I've already said that much of what I would have posted was in Bill1971's post. If you'd like me to duplicate all that and repost it, I'd be more than willing to. I feel like it wouldn't change one mind here. You've already made it clear that "context" is not important in the least.
Now, Stadler, did I take sides in there? Because I'm sorry, but I cannot see it.
You don't give two fucks about what others think of you : good for you as I don't care for you either. I did not insult you in my post but you chose to insult me.
I did not insult you; I CERTAINLY did not say "I don't care for you" but at least it's out in the open, now, right? In fact, I (implicitly) respected your opinion, and only asked that you do the same.
Where did I write you couldn't have an opinion? Sorry, an OPINION as you chose to write. Btw, shouting won't have people shut it up.
You questioned my personal bona fides, as if no one in their right mind without an agenda could possibly hold the position I do. And as for the "don't shout", I've been doing this quite a while here and elsewhere (with people that post here) and have a style. I'm sorry it doesn't fly with you, I truly am, but little comments - which could be construed as anywhere from naively helpful to childishly pedantic - aren't really going to change anything at this point. It's how I write.
As for your last condescending remark, where, again, did I write that context did not matter? Again, you choose to twist things up to have your way. Just as you do from the very beginning.
Fair point; I assumed you have been reading the various posts over the past few pages and abuot 90% of my argument ISN'T that Mike is perfect and right and glorious in all he does (I rather agree with the idea that some of the posts are unnecessary) but rather that the context of WHY he posts (and what he posts) is important and many - most, if not all, let's be honest as I'm fair both ways - don't agree with me and feel he should be judged on the individual post itself every time and no context is relevant.
And you evaded my last question : where are JLB's exact quotes?
B.Lee
I most certainly did not "evade your last question". I've shown you far more respect than you've shown me; I clearly stated that most of what I WOULD have posted was included in Bill1971's post - including the "exact quotes" you're looking for - so unless you wanted me to simply repeat his post, I was going to consider my obligation met. As that's clearly not good enough for you, I'll get right on it. I don't have to get Mike's coffee or prepare his bath for another couple hours, so I have time now.
Anyway, Stadler, as we can't agree in the least on what we have said and the way we have said it, let's agree that, in the grand scheme of things, all of this is not that important. And sorry if I have come up as a douche, which I am not : my having just lost my father may have induced me to say things I don't normally say for such insignificance.
Peace
B.Lee
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Imagine if Portnoy was more well known. He'd be on TMZ and in tabloids all the time!
Actually, compared to Hollywood drama or the frequent shit slinging between some major pop-stars, this is all extremely mild.
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now every time MP posts anything or is interviewed and says something about DT, everybody's going to read anything/everything into it. Even some times when a new video interview or article is published that is pretty even keeled, some who are critics will acknowledge it's a decent interview, but there are plenty of others who still doubt what he's saying or try to read between the lines. That doesn't happen with any of his former band mates.
Maybe because they weren't in the band for the years Mike has, neither have publicly attack the other band members, even when still in the band?.. Those are kinda some of the reasons why his comments/sayings get so popular.. And, even when I myself don't follow him on social media and wouldn't post here a negative comment that he has made... let's be honest here; the first guy that makes Mike Portnoy look bad is Mike Portnoy himself.. Can't see it other way around, and we don't need any context to know what he has been saying publicly all these years..
To be honest, I kind of wish I could unfollow this thread. It's just turned into a clusterfuck of people bitching and fighting about MP.
I was about to write "Yes, you can" in response, but then realized what were you really saying, and it's actually happening to me too!.. :facepalm:
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I think when Mike says something like...
"You couldn't have shown up wearing a shirt form 1985 - 2010?"
He fails to understand new fans come in to the fold all the time. A 20 year old who became a fan in 2011 isn't wearing a ADTOE t-shirt to piss Mike off or insult him. He or she is simply a fan of DT and Mike and is excited to be at a show.
Does Mike not get that not all fans have been on board since 1992? I didn't discover DT till 2005 and I was 39 at the time.
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I think when Mike says something like...
"You couldn't have shown up wearing a shirt form 1985 - 2010?"
He fails to understand new fans come in to the fold all the time. A 20 year old who became a fan in 2011 isn't wearing a ADTOE t-shirt to piss Mike off or insult him. He or she is simply a fan of DT and Mike and is excited to be at a show.
Does Mike not get that not all fans have been on board since 1992? I didn't discover DT till 2005 and I was 39 at the time.
But you can't simply control your feelings just like that, can you?.. And this is why I personally get why he felt that way (if this is true anyways); in the moment, I think most people wouldn't think "oh, look at him, a new DT fan who doesn't know I'm not in that album in his shirt, what a coincidence".. It might have been on purpose or not, we don't know that, but, again, it doesn't matter regarding this point in particular..
Another thing yet, is to go write this circumstance in your social media and describe it as being malicious and not just a coincidence or whatever.. In the moment is understandable, but once you have the time to thought about it and you come up with this idea of make it public, that's where the problem is, IMO..
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Personally, I think there are people out there that would do that just to piss him off. I have no idea what the intention was, but I can see how it would irk MP. However, I don't agree with him lashing out publicly about it. If that person did intentionally do that, it only increases the chance of more people doing it because they then know it pisses him off. Also, you do need to leave room for the idea that the person was completely innocent in wearing that shirt.
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Personally, I think there are people out there that would do that just to piss him off. I have no idea what the intention was, but I can see how it would irk MP. However, I don't agree with him lashing out publicly about it. If that person did intentionally do that, it only increases the chance of more people doing it because they then know it pisses him off. Also, you do need to leave room for the idea that the person was completely innocent in wearing that shirt.
Obviously, people are going to be jerks and wear a post-MP Dream Theater shirt to meet MP just to fire him up. Because MP has shown a history of flying off the handle online, so they are looking to get a rise. It's a jerk move, but it is what it is.
However, as you point out, you also need to account for those people that are wearing whatever DT shirt they own, not to piss him off, but to pay homage to his time in the band. I mean, if I knew I was going to meet MP, I probably would wear my 1997 tour shirt from DT. I happen to also have ADToE shirt, and I wouldn't wear that. However, if the latter was my only DT shirt, and I didn't know any of the drama, just loved the band's music, I totally would wear it, as a sign of respect toward MP (again, if I didn't know the drama behind it all).
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Anyway, Stadler, as we can't agree in the least on what we have said and the way we have said it, let's agree that, in the grand scheme of things, all of this is not that important. And sorry if I have come up as a douche, which I am not : my having just lost my father may have induced me to say things I don't normally say for such insignificance.
Peace
B.Lee
Conversation done. You have both my apologies and my deepest sympathies. Nothing I have to say on this matter is anywhere near as important as the real world.
No hard feelings and I sincerely hope you're making it through okay.
Peace.
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Personally, I think there are people out there that would do that just to piss him off. I have no idea what the intention was, but I can see how it would irk MP. However, I don't agree with him lashing out publicly about it. If that person did intentionally do that, it only increases the chance of more people doing it because they then know it pisses him off. Also, you do need to leave room for the idea that the person was completely innocent in wearing that shirt.
Obviously, people are going to be jerks and wear a post-MP Dream Theater shirt to meet MP just to fire him up. Because MP has shown a history of flying off the handle online, so they are looking to get a rise. It's a jerk move, but it is what it is.
However, as you point out, you also need to account for those people that are wearing whatever DT shirt they own, not to piss him off, but to pay homage to his time in the band. I mean, if I knew I was going to meet MP, I probably would wear my 1997 tour shirt from DT. I happen to also have ADToE shirt, and I wouldn't wear that. However, if the latter was my only DT shirt, and I didn't know any of the drama, just loved the band's music, I totally would wear it, as a sign of respect toward MP (again, if I didn't know the drama behind it all).
Go back a few pages and see what I wrote to Bosk. There is another site out there - I'm sure some of you are familiar with it - that was SO brutal to Mike in the wake of the separation as to be unfathomable. They were cavalierly and with malice making anti-Semitic comments, homophobic comments... one poster even made a practice of regularly implying he was an incestuous pedophile. In the face of that, wearing a t-shirt to piss him off is not only reasonable, it's likely.
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Why does one have to be related? Those idiots on that other website don't represent other people.
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I was tempted to wear a Division Bell shirt to see Roger Waters a few weeks ago...
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Why does one have to be related? Those idiots on that other website don't represent other people.
Yeah, I'm more or less on your side with this Stadler but I don't really think shit-talkers on REDACTED map to real life. I could be wrong, of course, but I think there's a big difference (and effort-gap) between posting nasty stuff online and actually taking the time to troll the guy in person.
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Jeez, I am away from the forum for a while and everything goes to shit.
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Jeez, I am away from the forum for a while and everything goes to shit.
It was all a cry for help!
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Jeez, I am away from the forum for a while and everything goes to shit.
I should make a new meme of the picture you know of.....
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Anyway, Stadler, as we can't agree in the least on what we have said and the way we have said it, let's agree that, in the grand scheme of things, all of this is not that important. And sorry if I have come up as a douche, which I am not : my having just lost my father may have induced me to say things I don't normally say for such insignificance.
Dang, I am sorry to hear about your loss. My condolences. :(
now every time MP posts anything or is interviewed and says something about DT, everybody's going to read anything/everything into it. Even some times when a new video interview or article is published that is pretty even keeled, some who are critics will acknowledge it's a decent interview, but there are plenty of others who still doubt what he's saying or try to read between the lines. That doesn't happen with any of his former band mates.
Maybe because they weren't in the band for the years Mike has, neither have publicly attack the other band members, even when still in the band?.. Those are kinda some of the reasons why his comments/sayings get so popular.. And, even when I myself don't follow him on social media and wouldn't post here a negative comment that he has made... let's be honest here; the first guy that makes Mike Portnoy look bad is Mike Portnoy himself.. Can't see it other way around, and we don't need any context to know what he has been saying publicly all these years..
Exactly. He doesn't get criticized more because people all of a sudden decided it would be fun or cool to pick on poor Mike Portnoy; he brings it all on himself, which is clear to most here at this point.
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And sorry if I have come up as a douche, which I am not : my having just lost my father may have induced me to say things I don't normally say for such insignificance.
Dang, I am sorry to hear about your loss. My condolences. :(
Yeah same here. I guess I skimmed right past that part of the post. My eyes have been glazing over lately in this thread.
I can vouch that B. Lee is most definitely NOT a douche.
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Agreed. Nothing B Lee said struck me as douchey at all.
And I very much agree about the thread. At this point, it's like a blur of posts, with Stadler's "I am going down with the ship" posts intertwined with nearly everyone else making sense. :lol :lol
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Agreed. Nothing B Lee said struck me as douchey at all.
And I very much agree about the thread. At this point, it's like a blur of posts, with Stadler's "I am going down with the ship" posts intertwined with nearly everyone else making sense. :lol :lol
Going down with the ship? At this point I think he is hanging out just a stone's throw from the Titanic.
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Thanks guys for your kind words! I really appreciate it! Stadler, hatchet buried, if it ever was out.
Today is the burial. Peace to all, guys.
B.Lee
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Jesus, is this thread still going?
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I was tempted to wear a Division Bell shirt to see Roger Waters a few weeks ago...
:lol
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And I very much agree about the thread. At this point, it's like a blur of posts, with Stadler's "I am going down with the ship" posts intertwined with nearly everyone else making sense. :lol :lol
:lol So true.
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I was going to wear an Invisible Touch shirt to a Peter Gabriel signing.
Sorry I just repeated the previous joke. Although I don't think they would cafe because Gabriel and Waters wanted to leave those bands.
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Gabriel wouldn't at all, but I think Roger would say something.
And for all those that think the thread is dying, well, I'm sorry for that. I'm entitled to my opinion - it is subjective after all - and at least I'm not a sheep going along with the flow. I do think some of the comments are uncalled for, but so be it. You are also the same people that don't think what LaBrie said was bad either, so it makes a sort of sense. On the bright side, I'm not tweeting about you guys in return, so there's that!
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Its that JLB only said that after a former member bashed him. JLB showed more class with his ONE post.
I'm not saying either person is wrong/right in what they said and how they wrote what they wrote.
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I think when Mike says something like...
"You couldn't have shown up wearing a shirt form 1985 - 2010?"
He fails to understand new fans come in to the fold all the time. A 20 year old who became a fan in 2011 isn't wearing a ADTOE t-shirt to piss Mike off or insult him. He or she is simply a fan of DT and Mike and is excited to be at a show.
Does Mike not get that not all fans have been on board since 1992? I didn't discover DT till 2005 and I was 39 at the time.
I don't think there were DT shirts back in 1985, wasn't the 1st album out in 1989?
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Regarding the t-shirts, here's a fun fact: I attended the show in Moscow yesterday, and there were DT AFTR tour shirts (with DT12 album cover on the front) at the merch stand. :biggrin: I probably should've taken a picture just for this thread.
The show rocked, though. The combination of TGP + TDS is a bit exhausting (it doesn't help that I'm not too fond of both these songs), but other than that, I liked it a lot. I was very impressed with both Ross' and Eric's singing. Ross did sound a bit awkward sometimes (mostly on The Mirror and Home), but other than that I thought he was spot on.
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Its that JLB only said that after a former member bashed him. JLB showed more class with his ONE post.
I'm not saying either person is wrong/right in what they said and how they wrote what they wrote.
What one post? I looked through the thread but there is so much going on I must have missed it?
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Its that JLB only said that after a former member bashed him. JLB showed more class with his ONE post.
I'm not saying either person is wrong/right in what they said and how they wrote what they wrote.
What one post? I looked through the thread but there is so much going on I must have missed it?
Or I should say the one interview (that I've seen).
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Jesus, is this thread still going?
(https://dreamatico.com/data_images/jesus/jesus-5.jpg)
Yes, it is eternal, like me.
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Seems like James has no hard feelings to me.
K: OK, so yeah, most of that was written before you were in the band
J: Of course they wrote vocal lines, melody lines before you were… I mean, the only thing I altered was I made some suggestions melodically here and there you know, “This would be better sung like this”, “This would be better sung like that”, “That’s more you know, meoldic to me, what do you think?” and they were completely open. They were all about just, you know, “Yeah, let’s make it the best it can be, right?” I mean, that’s that’s what any album’s about, it’s not about “Hey what about me? Don’t I get a say?” Ultimately, it has to come down to what are you trying to achieve? You’re trying to achieve the best, so put your freaking egos aside, you know, be a rational professional and approach it you know, properly, so that you get the best results and so that’s what it was with that too. But it was just, you know, I gotta tell you, Kim, it was just a great time because we were all thrilled, we were all excited, we were all extremely young, um, and freaking full of vigor and you know, enthusiasm, and fucking zest, and we were there all bout… you know, we were great friends you know, and we were comrades, and you know I think back to those moments, and Mike and I you know, were the best of friends, we hung out, shot the shit, laughed, had some drinks together but you know, I mean it was it was a really good moment in time. It really was.
https://dreamtheater.club/blog/2017/03/07/interview-with-james-labrie-by-dt-world/
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Seems like James has no hard feelings to me.
K: OK, so yeah, most of that was written before you were in the band
J: Of course they wrote vocal lines, melody lines before you were… I mean, the only thing I altered was I made some suggestions melodically here and there you know, “This would be better sung like this”, “This would be better sung like that”, “That’s more you know, meoldic to me, what do you think?” and they were completely open. They were all about just, you know, “Yeah, let’s make it the best it can be, right?” I mean, that’s that’s what any album’s about, it’s not about “Hey what about me? Don’t I get a say?” Ultimately, it has to come down to what are you trying to achieve? You’re trying to achieve the best, so put your freaking egos aside, you know, be a rational professional and approach it you know, properly, so that you get the best results and so that’s what it was with that too. But it was just, you know, I gotta tell you, Kim, it was just a great time because we were all thrilled, we were all excited, we were all extremely young, um, and freaking full of vigor and you know, enthusiasm, and fucking zest, and we were there all bout… you know, we were great friends you know, and we were comrades, and you know I think back to those moments, and Mike and I you know, were the best of friends, we hung out, shot the shit, laughed, had some drinks together but you know, I mean it was it was a really good moment in time. It really was.
https://dreamtheater.club/blog/2017/03/07/interview-with-james-labrie-by-dt-world/
What album were they talking about?
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Gotta be FII or earlier if James and Mike were going out for drinks.
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Gotta be FII or earlier if James and Mike were going out for drinks.
Images
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Stadler, can you decipher this one for me please?
PHOTOBUCKET SUCKS
'Cause to me, it looks like he's suggesting the other guys are too dumb to realize the symbol they've been using for 30 years is different.
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:justjen
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Seems like James has no hard feelings to me.
K: OK, so yeah, most of that was written before you were in the band
J: Of course they wrote vocal lines, melody lines before you were… I mean, the only thing I altered was I made some suggestions melodically here and there you know, “This would be better sung like this”, “This would be better sung like that”, “That’s more you know, meoldic to me, what do you think?” and they were completely open. They were all about just, you know, “Yeah, let’s make it the best it can be, right?” I mean, that’s that’s what any album’s about, it’s not about “Hey what about me? Don’t I get a say?” Ultimately, it has to come down to what are you trying to achieve? You’re trying to achieve the best, so put your freaking egos aside, you know, be a rational professional and approach it you know, properly, so that you get the best results and so that’s what it was with that too. But it was just, you know, I gotta tell you, Kim, it was just a great time because we were all thrilled, we were all excited, we were all extremely young, um, and freaking full of vigor and you know, enthusiasm, and fucking zest, and we were there all bout… you know, we were great friends you know, and we were comrades, and you know I think back to those moments, and Mike and I you know, were the best of friends, we hung out, shot the shit, laughed, had some drinks together but you know, I mean it was it was a really good moment in time. It really was.
https://dreamtheater.club/blog/2017/03/07/interview-with-james-labrie-by-dt-world/
James has actually said a lot of positive things about Mike since the split. I don't think Mike has said one positive thing about James since then.
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Stadler, can you decipher this one for me please?
(https://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k34/Zook85/MPasshat.png)
'Cause to me, it looks like he's suggesting the other guys are too dumb to realize the symbol they've been using for 30 years is different.
Holy crap, you didn't mention he randomly posted this on Charlie's facebook page.
I was just checking out Charlie's FB and scrolling through the comments. Charlie admitted he was in a bad financial state. That sucks. I always liked his contribution to Dream Theater and his solo band stuff.
Anyway, there was the unsolicited Portnoy comment. What a bizarre thing to post.
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I bet everyday the other guys are happy to be rid of the drama.
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Seems like James has no hard feelings to me.
K: OK, so yeah, most of that was written before you were in the band
J: Of course they wrote vocal lines, melody lines before you were… I mean, the only thing I altered was I made some suggestions melodically here and there you know, “This would be better sung like this”, “This would be better sung like that”, “That’s more you know, meoldic to me, what do you think?” and they were completely open. They were all about just, you know, “Yeah, let’s make it the best it can be, right?” I mean, that’s that’s what any album’s about, it’s not about “Hey what about me? Don’t I get a say?” Ultimately, it has to come down to what are you trying to achieve? You’re trying to achieve the best, so put your freaking egos aside, you know, be a rational professional and approach it you know, properly, so that you get the best results and so that’s what it was with that too. But it was just, you know, I gotta tell you, Kim, it was just a great time because we were all thrilled, we were all excited, we were all extremely young, um, and freaking full of vigor and you know, enthusiasm, and fucking zest, and we were there all bout… you know, we were great friends you know, and we were comrades, and you know I think back to those moments, and Mike and I you know, were the best of friends, we hung out, shot the shit, laughed, had some drinks together but you know, I mean it was it was a really good moment in time. It really was.
https://dreamtheater.club/blog/2017/03/07/interview-with-james-labrie-by-dt-world/
James has actually said a lot of positive things about Mike since the split. I don't think Mike has said one positive thing about James since then.
Even though Mangini has said nothing but nice things, Portnoy hasn't even called him by his name, at most the new drummer if anything at all. I thought they were friends.
Even though continues to dig his own grave, I feel bad for him. After 7 years you can tell he really regrets ever quitting and is unable to move on.
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I don't even know what he's talking about this time.. The symbol is different?.. No, it's not..
If that'd be the case, I'm pretty sure several fans wouldn't have hesitated to point it out, not without making all kind of assumptions about it..
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I don't even know what he's talking about this time.. The symbol is different?.. No, it's not..
If that'd be the case, I'm pretty sure several fans wouldn't have hesitated to point it out, not without making all kind of assumptions about it..
There are clear differences to the symbol.
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Anyway, there was the unsolicited Portnoy comment. What a bizarre thing to post.
I think you need to take all the "unknown unknowns" into account here - there's probably you a lot of context and background information that you don't even know that you're ignoring, that if only you knew you knew, you would treat this comment of MP's very differently.
I'm sure he has a good reason for posting this comment out of the blue, not that he's bitter or angry or anything.
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I don't even know what he's talking about this time.. The symbol is different?.. No, it's not..
If that'd be the case, I'm pretty sure several fans wouldn't have hesitated to point it out, not without making all kind of assumptions about it..
There are clear differences to the symbol.
Mmm, they aren't to me, or not the enough to say that the symbol was "changed" or it isn't "correct" anymore.. I barely see a slight difference in the DT12 symbol (which is the only one that can be seen without any difficulty) -the three vertical lines are longer-, but in any way so significant that would represent such bigger diffference as some of the previous MP-era symbols; meaning: they weren't ALL exactly the same either..
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Anyway, there was the unsolicited Portnoy comment. What a bizarre thing to post.
I think you need to take all the "unknown unknowns" into account here - there's probably you a lot of context and background information that you don't even know that you're ignoring, that if only you knew you knew, you would treat this comment of MP's very differently.
I'm sure he has a good reason for posting this comment out of the blue, not that he's bitter or angry or anything.
Excellent point. :| :huh:
I guess we should let this guy have the last word:
(https://cdn.poststatus.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/rumsfeld-unknown-unknowns-752x284.jpg)
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Stadler, can you decipher this one for me please?
(https://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k34/Zook85/MPasshat.png)
'Cause to me, it looks like he's suggesting the other guys are too dumb to realize the symbol they've been using for 30 years is different.
See, here we go again. Just when I think I'm out, they SUCK me back in!
He's not doing anything of the sort. He is:
a) noting that the symbol is different, and
b) giving two potential reasons why, neither of which are "too dumb to realize". Those are YOUR words. The first reason is intentional change, and the second is they didn't notice. You don't have to be "dumb" not to notice.
And before we get on him, let's not forget that Marillion, Yes, Iron Maiden (especially Iron Maiden) and Kiss have all been very specific about their logos. Different arena, but when I worked for GE, and GE used to own NBC, there were posters on EVERY FLOOR with SPECIFIC instructions on the use of the NBC peacock. You could not add borders, you could not change colors (without specific permission from marketing), you could not change the size of the feathers, you could not change the spaces in between... it was crazy.
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Or it was more of the passive aggressive bullshit he's been doing. "They ruined muh baby!" "It's not correct anymore!" "They too dumb to notice."
But innocent little Mikey was just given a fun fact to the "fans".
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Or it was more of the passive aggressive bullshit he's been doing. "They ruined muh baby!" "It's not correct anymore!" "They too dumb to notice."
But innocent little Mikey was just given a fun fact to the "fans".
Well, let's be fair. Peace and Love's post read vaguely like sarcasm, but it's the point I have been making for a while.
Where did he say any of those things in his post? You either take him at face value or you don't. But you don't get to malign every tweet to your world view of him. It's the same with Donald Trump these days. Mike (and Donald) have said enough things to criticize them about without having to make shit up about them to justify your world view.
Would I have made the post to begin with? Probably not. Or I would have worded it differently. But given that he did post it, I don't see how you can read SOME things into it but not all of them. It makes no sense to me.
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And before we get on him, let's not forget that Marillion, Yes, Iron Maiden (especially Iron Maiden) and Kiss have all been very specific about their logos. Different arena, but when I worked for GE, and GE used to own NBC, there were posters on EVERY FLOOR with SPECIFIC instructions on the use of the NBC peacock. You could not add borders, you could not change colors (without specific permission from marketing), you could not change the size of the feathers, you could not change the spaces in between... it was crazy.
Then what do you take of the "or if they just don't realize it as they never dealt with artwork and merchandise before..." If, as in your examples, the entities are typically on top of their logos then isn't that a shot at DT by saying that?
I've honestly been confused by that remark. I *think* he is just trying to clarify what that logo actually is (as in, it's the older logo) but at the same time, I can't tell if he is adding a side jab to DT in the process because of the wording. And that's where people start interpreting the passive aggressiveness.
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Stadler, can you decipher this one for me please?
(https://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k34/Zook85/MPasshat.png)
'Cause to me, it looks like he's suggesting the other guys are too dumb to realize the symbol they've been using for 30 years is different.
See, here we go again. Just when I think I'm out, they SUCK me back in!
He's not doing anything of the sort. He is:
a) noting that the symbol is different, and
b) giving two potential reasons why, neither of which are "too dumb to realize". Those are YOUR words. The first reason is intentional change, and the second is they didn't notice. You don't have to be "dumb" not to notice.
And before we get on him, let's not forget that Marillion, Yes, Iron Maiden (especially Iron Maiden) and Kiss have all been very specific about their logos. Different arena, but when I worked for GE, and GE used to own NBC, there were posters on EVERY FLOOR with SPECIFIC instructions on the use of the NBC peacock. You could not add borders, you could not change colors (without specific permission from marketing), you could not change the size of the feathers, you could not change the spaces in between... it was crazy.
"Not sure if it was intentionally changed"
To my eyes it's very different. The top and bottom pillars are stretched making the change very apparent, and the middle section of the logo is now evenly centered.
"Or they just don't realize it as they never dealt with the artwork, etc"
How is this not questioning their intelligence? The DT guys have played together for 25 years, and because Mike dealt with all the artwork and shit, the other guys just didn't care, didn't look at the t-shirts, album covers, anything? How can you not notice a change to your own band's logo? So what, the guys just hired some random asshole to do their artwork and didn't even look at it? I'll give the Hugh Syme shit a pass, 'cause those watermarks are hard to see, but still unacceptable.
And they still used the original logo on ADTOE.
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Yeah, I don't see the big deal about that statement.
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Requesting side by side comparison. Never noticed anything different personally.
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Requesting side by side comparison. Never noticed anything different personally.
I didn't notice until this comment :lol But I don't have an eye for detail like that
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Yeah, I don't see the big deal about that statement.
It's the whole fact that he's questioning whether it was an intentional change or they didn't notice it. How could it not be intentional? Now, if the next album has a :neverusethis: face instead of the majesty symbol, I'll take back everything I said and apologize.
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Can we rename this to the Analyze Portnoy Social Media thread?
Stadler, did you notice when Maiden changed their logo in the 90s. I never really understood that change, but in the 00s they were using it to distinguish their "nostalgia" tours. Of course they went back to the classic logo for TBOS. Anyway it's very similar to what DT did, a slight subtle change that many don't even notice.
I don't think Kiss has changed at all (minus different colors and the German logo).
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Or it was more of the passive aggressive bullshit he's been doing. "They ruined muh baby!" "It's not correct anymore!" "They too dumb to notice."
But innocent little Mikey was just given a fun fact to the "fans".
Well, let's be fair. Peace and Love's post read vaguely like sarcasm, but it's the point I have been making for a while.
Where did he say any of those things in his post? You either take him at face value or you don't. But you don't get to malign every tweet to your world view of him. It's the same with Donald Trump these days. Mike (and Donald) have said enough things to criticize them about without having to make shit up about them to justify your world view.
Would I have made the post to begin with? Probably not. Or I would have worded it differently. But given that he did post it, I don't see how you can read SOME things into it but not all of them. It makes no sense to me.
Mike should defiantly hire you for damage control. :) Kellyanne Conway should call you for advice. As others have said it's not that he noticed that the symbol has changed(correct or not) but that he has to make the comment that the others wouldn't know. Like the 4 of them are wandering around aimlessly until he returns to rescue them. It's also tooting his own horn saying how he handled all the artwork and merchandise in the past and now that the other guys are, they don't even realize what the symbol looks like.
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Yeah, I don't see the big deal about that statement.
It's the whole fact that he's questioning whether it was an intentional change or they didn't notice it. How could it not be intentional? Now, if the next album has a :neverusethis: face instead of the majesty symbol, I'll take back everything I said and apologize.
The way I see it is
A) The logo changed, but evidently it was fairly subtle since nobody noticed (and we're something of an obsessive bunch :lol).
B) The first explanation he offered is that they changed it intentionally (which I think is almost certainly the case).
C) It's theoretically possible that the logo was altered by whatever artist they were working with and the guys didn't notice. Like I mentioned in A, it's something that a board full of fans never noticed, so if the band was looking more at the overall designs/artworks and not expecting the logo to change, that they didn't notice. I don't think it necessarily reflects poorly on them, I'm sure there are lots of bands who aren't as OCD about their merch and such as MP is/was.
I think there are plenty of things he says online that are unnecessary/in poor taste, this just didn't strike me as one of them.
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Requesting side by side comparison. Never noticed anything different personally.
I'm not seeing that too. Help, anyone?
In Iron Maiden's case, I never noticed until now, wow! Very interesting :tup
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Requesting side by side comparison. Never noticed anything different personally.
I'm not seeing that too. Help, anyone?
In Iron Maiden's case, I never noticed until now, wow! Very interesting :tup
(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/58/d1/90/58d190a15b6350ed7fee7d5e810f9a0d.png)
(https://www.nexttonone.net/uploads/1/9/4/0/19408259/1478148395.png)
Sort of, kind of....???
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Also it's very possible that DT haven't noticed. They didn't take an active role in that stuff when MP was in the band and maybe handed that part off to management. It's not unusual for the band to take a hands off approach to the artwork. The sleeve design concept of Seventh Son of a Seventh Son is credited to Derek Riggs (the artist) and Rod Smallwood (the manager). The Maiden guys had nothing to do with it. Very possible that it's the same in DT world. In fact, I'd say it's probably unusual for anyone to be as involved in the artwork as Portnoy was.
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All MP did was attention grab and be passive aggressive against the other DT members. Didn't do Charlie any favors on selling the logo. Could have just been supportive to Charlie and not make subtle jabs. As long as DT are doing what they feel best for the music, I don't care if they aren't paying attention to something so minute that only MP and a handful of people would ever notice. (not implying they don't care or aren't paying attention, just saying if this "is" the case).
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All MP did was attention grab and be passive aggressive against the other DT members. Didn't do Charlie any favors on selling the logo. Could have just been supportive to Charlie and not make subtle jabs.
Bingo. That's why it's bizarre. I can't fathom how people can't see that.
He could have said, "The DT logo has changed a bit over the last few albums but *this* was the logo I got for one of my first tattoos, that you saw on all the DT releases up through BC&SL, and that you have on your t-shirts. This is priceless! Don't pass up the chance to own this piece of history!"
buuuuuuuuuut....
...he didn't. And what he said was weird.
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All MP did was attention grab and be passive aggressive against the other DT members. Didn't do Charlie any favors on selling the logo. Could have just been supportive to Charlie and not make subtle jabs.
Bingo. That's why it's bizarre. I can't fathom how people can't see that.
He could have said, "The DT logo has changed a bit over the last few albums but *this* was the logo I got for one of my first tattoos, that you saw on all the DT releases up through BC&SL, and that you have on your t-shirts. This is priceless! Don't pass up the chance to own this piece of history!"
buuuuuuuuuut....
...he didn't. And what he said was weird.
All of this.. And, exactly due to all of this is why I do think his comment was
unnecessary/in poor taste
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All MP did was attention grab and be passive aggressive against the other DT members. Didn't do Charlie any favors on selling the logo. Could have just been supportive to Charlie and not make subtle jabs.
Bingo. That's why it's bizarre. I can't fathom how people can't see that.
He could have said, "The DT logo has changed a bit over the last few albums but *this* was the logo I got for one of my first tattoos, that you saw on all the DT releases up through BC&SL, and that you have on your t-shirts. This is priceless! Don't pass up the chance to own this piece of history!"
buuuuuuuuuut....
...he didn't. And what he said was weird.
Geez. I really didn't find his comment that bad. But now that I've read your version, I cannot un-read it and I agree it's better :D
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Yeah, I don't see the big deal about that statement.
It's the whole fact that he's questioning whether it was an intentional change or they didn't notice it. How could it not be intentional? Now, if the next album has a :neverusethis: face instead of the majesty symbol, I'll take back everything I said and apologize.
The way I see it is
A) The logo changed, but evidently it was fairly subtle since nobody noticed (and we're something of an obsessive bunch :lol).
B) The first explanation he offered is that they changed it intentionally (which I think is almost certainly the case).
C) It's theoretically possible that the logo was altered by whatever artist they were working with and the guys didn't notice. Like I mentioned in A, it's something that a board full of fans never noticed, so if the band was looking more at the overall designs/artworks and not expecting the logo to change, that they didn't notice. I don't think it necessarily reflects poorly on them, I'm sure there are lots of bands who aren't as OCD about their merch and such as MP is/was.
I think there are plenty of things he says online that are unnecessary/in poor taste, this just didn't strike me as one of them.
This so much.
For those who think it was a jab at DT, if it turned out that it wasn't intentional and DT didn't notice, do you honestly feel that this suggests a lack of intelligence or care from DT?
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Considering it's the band's logo of 30 years, yeah, for them not to notice would be ridiculous. I can't believe that to be the case.
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All MP did was attention grab and be passive aggressive against the other DT members. Didn't do Charlie any favors on selling the logo. Could have just been supportive to Charlie and not make subtle jabs.
Bingo. That's why it's bizarre. I can't fathom how people can't see that.
He could have said, "The DT logo has changed a bit over the last few albums but *this* was the logo I got for one of my first tattoos, that you saw on all the DT releases up through BC&SL, and that you have on your t-shirts. This is priceless! Don't pass up the chance to own this piece of history!"
buuuuuuuuuut....
...he didn't. And what he said was weird.
Exactly, it's the usual problem - what he says isn't really that bad, it's totally how he says it.
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For those who think it was a jab at DT, if it turned out that it wasn't intentional and DT didn't notice, do you honestly feel that this suggests a lack of intelligence or care from DT?
Maybe I don't, but Mike's comment would still be out of place.. Again, it doesn't matter what actually happened, the thing that bother us is his weird behavior; like he's trying to provoke the DT guys, or at least some DT fans and/or MP haters with that kind of comments..
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And before we get on him, let's not forget that Marillion, Yes, Iron Maiden (especially Iron Maiden) and Kiss have all been very specific about their logos. Different arena, but when I worked for GE, and GE used to own NBC, there were posters on EVERY FLOOR with SPECIFIC instructions on the use of the NBC peacock. You could not add borders, you could not change colors (without specific permission from marketing), you could not change the size of the feathers, you could not change the spaces in between... it was crazy.
Then what do you take of the "or if they just don't realize it as they never dealt with artwork and merchandise before..." If, as in your examples, the entities are typically on top of their logos then isn't that a shot at DT by saying that?
I've honestly been confused by that remark. I *think* he is just trying to clarify what that logo actually is (as in, it's the older logo) but at the same time, I can't tell if he is adding a side jab to DT in the process because of the wording. And that's where people start interpreting the passive aggressiveness.
I don't at all consider that a "shot". They DIDN'T deal with the artwork and the merchandise. It's a well-documented fact. Even in the LaBrie quotes that most don't think say what I think they say, he is clear: MIKE handled that stuff.
I'm with you in being confused by the statement (and I looked; I can't for the life of me see the difference, at least not a difference that wasn't in play BEFORE the split, since there seemed to be some evolution of the symbol pre-2010) but it's not another shot at DT, in my opinion.
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Stadler, can you decipher this one for me please?
(https://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k34/Zook85/MPasshat.png)
'Cause to me, it looks like he's suggesting the other guys are too dumb to realize the symbol they've been using for 30 years is different.
See, here we go again. Just when I think I'm out, they SUCK me back in!
He's not doing anything of the sort. He is:
a) noting that the symbol is different, and
b) giving two potential reasons why, neither of which are "too dumb to realize". Those are YOUR words. The first reason is intentional change, and the second is they didn't notice. You don't have to be "dumb" not to notice.
And before we get on him, let's not forget that Marillion, Yes, Iron Maiden (especially Iron Maiden) and Kiss have all been very specific about their logos. Different arena, but when I worked for GE, and GE used to own NBC, there were posters on EVERY FLOOR with SPECIFIC instructions on the use of the NBC peacock. You could not add borders, you could not change colors (without specific permission from marketing), you could not change the size of the feathers, you could not change the spaces in between... it was crazy.
"Not sure if it was intentionally changed"
To my eyes it's very different. The top and bottom pillars are stretched making the change very apparent, and the middle section of the logo is now evenly centered.
"Or they just don't realize it as they never dealt with the artwork, etc"
How is this not questioning their intelligence? The DT guys have played together for 25 years, and because Mike dealt with all the artwork and shit, the other guys just didn't care, didn't look at the t-shirts, album covers, anything? How can you not notice a change to your own band's logo? So what, the guys just hired some random asshole to do their artwork and didn't even look at it? I'll give the Hugh Syme shit a pass, 'cause those watermarks are hard to see, but still unacceptable.
And they still used the original logo on ADTOE.
"Not noticing" is not at all the same thing as "not being intelligent". I'm the smartest guy here (I'm kidding, I'm joking, but I'm certainly not "dumb"), and I miss things all the time. Jingle put a wink emoji in a post and I missed it TWICE, even when I went back and looked for it specifically.
You've never misplaced your keys and realized they were right on the table in front of you. Are you "not intelligent"? Have you ever looked at the same thing every day for ten years and not realized when there has been a subtle change to it? Are you therefore "not intelligent"? I would even offer that it's remotely possible that it's the OPPOSITE; you've never seen the caricature of the brilliant scientist that doesn't notice his shirt is buttoned up wrong? You've never watched "The Big Bang Theory", a show PREDICATED on veritable geniuses missing everyday shit that the rest of us - dummies - see?
C'mon, man. You're really reading stuff into it to see it as a dig on their intelligence.
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The only thing I see about MP's post regarding Dominici's auction is a lack of taste or support for Charlie's auction. He could have worded the post differently and not sound like a douche. Other than that, I don't see the dig at DT on this post specifically. Hopefully MP's comment doesn't discourage others from bidding.
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Back on topic.
Man, would love to see the show in NY. Shows seems to be full of energy. Will have to see if I can make it that week.
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Back on topic.
Man, would love to see the show in NY. Shows seems to be full of energy. Will have to see if I can make it that week.
Do whatever you have to in order to go.... it's a fantastic show!!!
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The only thing I see about MP's post regarding Dominici's auction is a lack of taste or support for Charlie's auction. He could have worded the post differently and not sound like a douche. Other than that, I don't see the dig at DT on this post specifically. Hopefully MP's comment doesn't discourage others from bidding.
That was a post regarding an auction that Charlie was running? Never would have guessed... (seriously).
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The only thing I see about MP's post regarding Dominici's auction is a lack of taste or support for Charlie's auction. He could have worded the post differently and not sound like a douche. Other than that, I don't see the dig at DT on this post specifically. Hopefully MP's comment doesn't discourage others from bidding.
That was a post regarding an auction that Charlie was running? Never would have guessed... (seriously).
Context matters...Right?
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The only thing I see about MP's post regarding Dominici's auction is a lack of taste or support for Charlie's auction. He could have worded the post differently and not sound like a douche. Other than that, I don't see the dig at DT on this post specifically. Hopefully MP's comment doesn't discourage others from bidding.
That was a post regarding an auction that Charlie was running? Never would have guessed... (seriously).
Context matters...Right?
:lol
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Can someone just ask one of the guys if they intentionally changed it? I just don't buy that whatever artist they hired changed it without telling them and they just never noticed, which is what MP seems to be suggesting. Otherwise he wouldn't have added that part.
It's like questioning whether cutting off the bottom points of the Iron Maiden logo was intentional or not. Sure, people here have said they didn't notice, but they weren't in Dream Theater using the same logo for 30 years. I don't understand how you couldn't have noticed.
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What even changed about it?
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I can't even see any difference ???
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I can't even see any difference ???
The biggest difference is that the new one is symmetrical and the old one has the crossing M's a bit under the center.
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The new one is more round, whereas the old one almost contained two straight lines at the top and the bottom of the ring. It's not a massive difference that can't go unnoticed - the Iron Maiden logo is a much more drastic example.
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Can someone just ask one of the guys if they intentionally changed it? I just don't buy that whatever artist they hired changed it without telling them and they just never noticed, which is what MP seems to be suggesting. Otherwise he wouldn't have added that part.
It's like questioning whether cutting off the bottom points of the Iron Maiden logo was intentional or not. Sure, people here have said they didn't notice, but they weren't in Dream Theater using the same logo for 30 years. I don't understand how you couldn't have noticed.
I think it's more about who made the decision. I personally doubt that the Maiden guys made that decision themselves and I suspect it was Rod Smallwood. Could be a similar situation for DT. In both cases, the new logos look more streamlined and easier to put on promotional materials.
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I can't even see any difference ???
To me it's also really just a tiny change. But, I've seen epic discussions about the different fonts here, so...
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Yea, it really is a small difference. Not sure why it's a big deal to anyone.
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I think it's more about who made the decision. I personally doubt that the Maiden guys made that decision themselves and I suspect it was Rod Smallwood. Could be a similar situation for DT. In both cases, the new logos look more streamlined and easier to put on promotional materials.
Right. Could be the Maiden logo was more "box like" and could be easily cut and pasted.
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I never thought of it myself. Most bands always tweet their logo. Some bands like Rush change it every albums and have different symbols pertaining to the album's meaning.
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What is tweet?
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(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/0/02/Tweety.svg/570px-Tweety.svg.png)
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@rumbo
LMAO :rollin :lol
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The only thing I see about MP's post regarding Dominici's auction is a lack of taste or support for Charlie's auction. He could have worded the post differently and not sound like a douche. Other than that, I don't see the dig at DT on this post specifically. Hopefully MP's comment doesn't discourage others from bidding.
That was a post regarding an auction that Charlie was running? Never would have guessed... (seriously).
Context matters...Right?
It most certainly does; I said before I probably wouldn't have posted that or I would have phrased it differently. Given that context, I most certainly would not have posted that there.
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(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/0/02/Tweety.svg/570px-Tweety.svg.png)
Hey that's different than
(https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-yDAl0nrb35U/UaIIZBukWZI/AAAAAAAAEUE/mcV_qYf3rsY/s1600/tale_06_tweety.jpg)
I suppose Sylvester was probably too dumb to notice anyway.
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All MP did was attention grab and be passive aggressive against the other DT members. Didn't do Charlie any favors on selling the logo. Could have just been supportive to Charlie and not make subtle jabs. As long as DT are doing what they feel best for the music, I don't care if they aren't paying attention to something so minute that only MP and a handful of people would ever notice. (not implying they don't care or aren't paying attention, just saying if this "is" the case).
I am surprised the DT guys figured out to make a set list without him. :)
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So much uproar about such a small difference! I admit I didn't notice the difference until now and I don't care. I love the band and the logo (both versions), it's stolen anyway :laugh:
https://i0.wp.com/dreamtheater.club/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/4938868763_9001645c5c_b.jpg
https://i0.wp.com/dreamtheater.club/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/sun-embroidery.jpg
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So much uproar about such a small difference! I admit I didn't notice the difference until now and I don't care. I love the band and the logo (both versions), it's stolen anyway :laugh:
https://i0.wp.com/dreamtheater.club/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/4938868763_9001645c5c_b.jpg
https://i0.wp.com/dreamtheater.club/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/sun-embroidery.jpg
Exactly.... but don't write that on Charlie's FB auction page 😉
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So much uproar about such a small difference! I admit I didn't notice the difference until now and I don't care. I love the band and the logo (both versions), it's stolen anyway :laugh:
https://i0.wp.com/dreamtheater.club/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/4938868763_9001645c5c_b.jpg
https://i0.wp.com/dreamtheater.club/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/sun-embroidery.jpg
Exactly.... but don't write that on Charlie's FB auction page 😉
EXACTLY!!
write it on Kevin Moore's
On a side not image if Kevin Moore did this. When people bashed Rudess on Twitter for being too flashy and bring back Moore, if retweeted all of those.
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So much uproar about such a small difference! I admit I didn't notice the difference until now and I don't care. I love the band and the logo (both versions), it's stolen anyway :laugh:
https://i0.wp.com/dreamtheater.club/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/4938868763_9001645c5c_b.jpg
https://i0.wp.com/dreamtheater.club/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/sun-embroidery.jpg
Exactly.... but don't write that on Charlie's FB auction page 😉
EXACTLY!!
write it on Kevin Moore's
On a side not image if Kevin Moore did this. When people bashed Rudess on Twitter for being too flashy and bring back Moore, if retweeted all of those.
There would still be certain people that scream, "YOU DON'T KNOW THE FULL STORY!!!" or "HE HAS THE RIGHT TO HIS OPINION!!!1!one!!"
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So much uproar about such a small difference! I admit I didn't notice the difference until now and I don't care. I love the band and the logo (both versions), it's stolen anyway :laugh:
https://i0.wp.com/dreamtheater.club/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/4938868763_9001645c5c_b.jpg
https://i0.wp.com/dreamtheater.club/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/sun-embroidery.jpg
Exactly.... but don't write that on Charlie's FB auction page 😉
EXACTLY!!
write it on Kevin Moore's
On a side not image if Kevin Moore did this. When people bashed Rudess on Twitter for being too flashy and bring back Moore, if retweeted all of those.
There would still be certain people that scream, "YOU DON'T KNOW THE FULL STORY!!!" or "HE HAS THE RIGHT TO HIS OPINION!!!1!one!!"
I could tell you the full story, but you wouldn't believe me as you need official proof. And we all know that is never going to happen.
I am not advocating his style of social media, but he has always done straight honest answers back to the beginning of DT.
It seems that there is a large contingent just waiting to pounce the second a tweet, FB post or interview to comment on how he's an uncaring unthinking douche playing the victim. I know, it's the DTF way. What happened to the day when if you didn't like a TV show you changed the channel, now a days you get on social media and scream until nobody can watch it.
Portnoy could come up with a cure for cancer and there will be plenty of people to bash him because his tweet didn't acknowledge is former assistant.
As most of you know, I did a lot of work for DT and now MP. I don't really care one way or the other what he posts on social media. I'm all for constructive commentary and discussion. But he is who he is. All this stuff is not new, and whether he has put DT in the past or not shouldn't matter, it's his business. Every disagreeable tweet, the reaction is like you(all) have never seen it before, as a matter a fact I think people follow his feeds just to bash him. Is it that much fun to be so negative? Just change the channel.
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I could tell you the full story, but you wouldn't believe me as you need official proof.
Not to pounce on you, but could you tell us the whole story? Are you obligated not to, either by legalities, friendships, or loyalties? Most of us here appreciate your bona fides and value your posting here.
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I could tell you the full story, but you wouldn't believe me as you need official proof.
Not to pounce on you, but could you tell us the whole story? Are you obligated not to, either by legalities, friendships, or loyalties? Most of us here appreciate your bona fides and value your posting here.
No he can't and he won't. I wish he and noxon would stop saying that shit.
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So much uproar about such a small difference! I admit I didn't notice the difference until now and I don't care. I love the band and the logo (both versions), it's stolen anyway :laugh:
https://i0.wp.com/dreamtheater.club/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/4938868763_9001645c5c_b.jpg
https://i0.wp.com/dreamtheater.club/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/sun-embroidery.jpg
Exactly.... but don't write that on Charlie's FB auction page 😉
EXACTLY!!
write it on Kevin Moore's
On a side not image if Kevin Moore did this. When people bashed Rudess on Twitter for being too flashy and bring back Moore, if retweeted all of those.
There would still be certain people that scream, "YOU DON'T KNOW THE FULL STORY!!!" or "HE HAS THE RIGHT TO HIS OPINION!!!1!one!!"
I could tell you the full story, but you wouldn't believe me as you need official proof. And we all know that is never going to happen.
I am not advocating his style of social media, but he has always done straight honest answers back to the beginning of DT.
It seems that there is a large contingent just waiting to pounce the second a tweet, FB post or interview to comment on how he's an uncaring unthinking douche playing the victim. I know, it's the DTF way. What happened to the day when if you didn't like a TV show you changed the channel, now a days you get on social media and scream until nobody can watch it.
Portnoy could come up with a cure for cancer and there will be plenty of people to bash him because his tweet didn't acknowledge is former assistant.
As most of you know, I did a lot of work for DT and now MP. I don't really care one way or the other what he posts on social media. I'm all for constructive commentary and discussion. But he is who he is. All this stuff is not new, and whether he has put DT in the past or not shouldn't matter, it's his business. Every disagreeable tweet, the reaction is like you(all) have never seen it before, as a matter a fact I think people follow his feeds just to bash him. Is it that much fun to be so negative? Just change the channel.
There's a lot to comment on here but lets just start with this: Why don't YOU change the channel? You apparently dislike DTF so much yet you keep coming back. You throw around these bizarre accusations about how much we hate Portnoy so fucking much that he could cure cancer and we would complain. BTW, that's a pretty tasteless accusation as I'm sure many posters here have been affected by cancer in some way or another and would love to see cancer cured, even if it comes from that evil Portnoy who we just love to hate even though every poster here has said positive things about him at one point or another. Some in this very thread. So if we hate him so much and are so ready to pounce, why do the vast majority of posters here reserve their criticism for when he acts tactlessly? Admittedly, he does so quite often so it may seem like a lot but hey, you could change the channel.
Perhaps those critical of Portnoy should start acting as hysterical as some of his supporters.
"Portnoy could film himself slaughtering puppies and you would still defend him!" Sounds pretty absurd, eh? I guess you can't handle that we call it like we see it. When he acts in a weird way, well, we call it like we see it. And no, I don't follow Mike just to bash him. In fact, I don't follow him at all. I follow Charlie and saw his bizarre comment.
But as for your original point, believe it or not, I wouldn't necessarily require physical proof to believe you. I've remained very open minded through this whole ordeal. Laugh if you want, but why would I praise these Shattered Fortress performances if I hate everything that the cancer curing Portnoy has ever done? Seems like you just want to dangle a line. "Look how much I know!"
Well, we know you know a lot of insider info.
For what it's worth, I also appreciate your work with DT and no difference of opinion is going to jade my view of that or Mike's contributions for that matter.
-
So much uproar about such a small difference! I admit I didn't notice the difference until now and I don't care. I love the band and the logo (both versions), it's stolen anyway :laugh:
https://i0.wp.com/dreamtheater.club/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/4938868763_9001645c5c_b.jpg
https://i0.wp.com/dreamtheater.club/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/sun-embroidery.jpg
Exactly.... but don't write that on Charlie's FB auction page 😉
EXACTLY!!
write it on Kevin Moore's
On a side not image if Kevin Moore did this. When people bashed Rudess on Twitter for being too flashy and bring back Moore, if retweeted all of those.
There would still be certain people that scream, "YOU DON'T KNOW THE FULL STORY!!!" or "HE HAS THE RIGHT TO HIS OPINION!!!1!one!!"
I could tell you the full story, but you wouldn't believe me as you need official proof. And we all know that is never going to happen.
I am not advocating his style of social media, but he has always done straight honest answers back to the beginning of DT.
It seems that there is a large contingent just waiting to pounce the second a tweet, FB post or interview to comment on how he's an uncaring unthinking douche playing the victim. I know, it's the DTF way. What happened to the day when if you didn't like a TV show you changed the channel, now a days you get on social media and scream until nobody can watch it.
Portnoy could come up with a cure for cancer and there will be plenty of people to bash him because his tweet didn't acknowledge is former assistant.
As most of you know, I did a lot of work for DT and now MP. I don't really care one way or the other what he posts on social media. I'm all for constructive commentary and discussion. But he is who he is. All this stuff is not new, and whether he has put DT in the past or not shouldn't matter, it's his business. Every disagreeable tweet, the reaction is like you(all) have never seen it before, as a matter a fact I think people follow his feeds just to bash him. Is it that much fun to be so negative? Just change the channel.
There's a lot to comment on here but lets just start with this: Why don't YOU change the channel? You apparently dislike DTF so much yet you keep coming back. You throw around these bizarre accusations about how much we hate Portnoy so fucking much that he could cure cancer and we would complain. BTW, that's a pretty tasteless accusation as I'm sure many posters here have been affected by cancer in some way or another and would love to see cancer cured, even if it comes from that evil Portnoy who we just love to hate even though every poster here has said positive things about him at one point or another. Some in this very thread. So if we hate him so much and are so ready to pounce, why do the vast majority of posters here reserve their criticism for when he acts tactlessly? Admittedly, he does so quite often so it may seem like a lot but hey, you could change the channel.
Perhaps those critical of Portnoy should start acting as hysterical as some of his supporters.
"Portnoy could film himself slaughtering puppies and you would still defend him!" Sounds pretty absurd, eh? I guess you can't handle that we call it like we see it. When he acts in a weird way, well, we call it like we see it. And no, I don't follow Mike just to bash him. In fact, I don't follow him at all. I follow Charlie and saw his bizarre comment.
But as for your original point, believe it or not, I wouldn't necessarily require physical proof to believe you. I've remained very open minded through this whole ordeal. Laugh if you want, but why would I praise these Shattered Fortress performances if I hate everything that the cancer curing Portnoy has ever done? Seems like you just want to dangle a line. "Look how much I know!"
Well, we know you know a lot of insider info.
For what it's worth, I also appreciate your work with DT and no difference of opinion is going to jade my view of that or Mike's contributions for that matter.
tl;dr: MP's a gay fish.
This is a great post. Hopefully it doesn't get ignored or misunderstood.
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I definitely do not want to unfollow Portnoy. I love him as a musician and entertainer. I have loved most of what he has done musically since the split. If I unfollow him, how would I get all the information that I want on his upcoming projects?
Would be over the moon if Portnoy came up with a cure for cancer.... heck I am over the moon because he has a new prog metal group to play in.
That does not change my reaction to some of his online activities though. I just wish he would think a little bit more before posting sometimes. I can not see any background story that would change that.
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I am not advocating his style of social media, but he has always done straight honest answers back to the beginning of DT.
Sure, the old "just being honest" excuse again. Such a bullshit excuse people use to justify their junk. Just because you *can* say whatever you want doesn't mean you *should*.
Also, there's nothing to "answer" here, it's just MP going out and looking for anything to comment on where he can bash DT, whether it's something like this or liking a Facetweet, it's completely uncalled for.
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I could tell you the full story, but you wouldn't believe me as you need official proof.
Not to pounce on you, but could you tell us the whole story? Are you obligated not to, either by legalities, friendships, or loyalties? Most of us here appreciate your bona fides and value your posting here.
No he can't and he won't. I wish he and noxon would stop saying that shit.
Well, I would believe him as well without actual proof, but I understand your position on "Don't tease something you cannot say anyway".
In all this discussion the famous "marriage analogy" is often thrown around, I offer a new one: your average everyday couple on Facebook that has a breakup.
Let's say you have two contacts that split up, and the guy posts a lot of melodramatic stuff about the ex while the ex doesn't post anything, inevitabily you'd think the dude is a whiney annoying person even though maybe the ex treated him like shit and he's right in badmouthing her... the point is, nobody cares. Unless you're personally invested and you're best friends since forever with one of the couple, the reaction on social media will be the same, famous and not famous persons - at a certain you get annoyed at the drama and the fault resides on the one that starts said drama. It's human nature.
I understand the passion involved and the deeper knowledge that people may have, but as I said, that's human nature, it applies to both famous persons and everyday friends.
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Nice post MirrorMask
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So much uproar about such a small difference! I admit I didn't notice the difference until now and I don't care. I love the band and the logo (both versions), it's stolen anyway :laugh:
https://i0.wp.com/dreamtheater.club/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/4938868763_9001645c5c_b.jpg
https://i0.wp.com/dreamtheater.club/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/sun-embroidery.jpg
Exactly.... but don't write that on Charlie's FB auction page 😉
EXACTLY!!
write it on Kevin Moore's
On a side not image if Kevin Moore did this. When people bashed Rudess on Twitter for being too flashy and bring back Moore, if retweeted all of those.
There would still be certain people that scream, "YOU DON'T KNOW THE FULL STORY!!!" or "HE HAS THE RIGHT TO HIS OPINION!!!1!one!!"
I could tell you the full story, but you wouldn't believe me as you need official proof. And we all know that is never going to happen.
I am not advocating his style of social media, but he has always done straight honest answers back to the beginning of DT.
It seems that there is a large contingent just waiting to pounce the second a tweet, FB post or interview to comment on how he's an uncaring unthinking douche playing the victim. I know, it's the DTF way. What happened to the day when if you didn't like a TV show you changed the channel, now a days you get on social media and scream until nobody can watch it.
Portnoy could come up with a cure for cancer and there will be plenty of people to bash him because his tweet didn't acknowledge is former assistant.
As most of you know, I did a lot of work for DT and now MP. I don't really care one way or the other what he posts on social media. I'm all for constructive commentary and discussion. But he is who he is. All this stuff is not new, and whether he has put DT in the past or not shouldn't matter, it's his business. Every disagreeable tweet, the reaction is like you(all) have never seen it before, as a matter a fact I think people follow his feeds just to bash him. Is it that much fun to be so negative? Just change the channel.
There's a lot to comment on here but lets just start with this: Why don't YOU change the channel? You apparently dislike DTF so much yet you keep coming back. You throw around these bizarre accusations about how much we hate Portnoy so fucking much that he could cure cancer and we would complain. BTW, that's a pretty tasteless accusation as I'm sure many posters here have been affected by cancer in some way or another and would love to see cancer cured, even if it comes from that evil Portnoy who we just love to hate even though every poster here has said positive things about him at one point or another. Some in this very thread. So if we hate him so much and are so ready to pounce, why do the vast majority of posters here reserve their criticism for when he acts tactlessly? Admittedly, he does so quite often so it may seem like a lot but hey, you could change the channel.
It's "funny" you should mention it, as my father died last Saturday from cancer. Some people go so much out of their way to defend MP that they are ready to say any bullshit that comes to their mind.
I could not have worded what you said in a better way concerning MP. Let me just add this : I have always loved the man as a musician but lately, I feel that his shitty attitude takes the better of him, so much so that I tend to just see him through his attitude. The lines are blurred between the man and the way he behaves and it is all his fault.
B.Lee
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Bertie, I'm so sorry to hear that. Cancer absolutely sucks.
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Sorry for your loss Bertie. Cancer really sucks...
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I dont think the TV channel reasoning works so well in this instance, because lots of us like myself, want to keep the MP channel on. We like his music, and for the most part, like his presence on social media. It's just that there are those times where his posts are extremely confusing and the wording often leads to either a misunderstanding or what comes off as negativity in some fashion. I think it's fair to discuss those times and even be critical of it in some instances. We definitely over analyze things here at DTF, but I don't think that all of us here want to turn the channel off because we are mostly still fans.
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Sorry for your loss Bertie.
Madman Shepherd - really good couple of posts.
I dont think the TV channel reasoning works so well in this instance, because lots of us like myself, want to keep the MP channel on. We like his music, and for the most part, like his presence on social media. It's just that there are those times where his posts are extremely confusing and the wording often leads to either a misunderstanding or what comes off as negativity in some fashion. I think it's fair to discuss those times and even be critical of it in some instances. We definitely over analyze things here at DTF, but I don't think that all of us here want to turn the channel off because we are mostly still fans.
I agree. I'm not even a big social media guy, but when I do check it, I'm still following MP in a variety of ways because he is and will always be one of my favorite drummers.
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Madman Shepherd, SwedishGoose and mikeyd23, thanks for your kind words. And yes, cancer is a bitch.
B.Lee
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So much uproar about such a small difference! I admit I didn't notice the difference until now and I don't care. I love the band and the logo (both versions), it's stolen anyway :laugh:
https://i0.wp.com/dreamtheater.club/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/4938868763_9001645c5c_b.jpg
https://i0.wp.com/dreamtheater.club/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/sun-embroidery.jpg
Exactly.... but don't write that on Charlie's FB auction page 😉
EXACTLY!!
write it on Kevin Moore's
On a side not image if Kevin Moore did this. When people bashed Rudess on Twitter for being too flashy and bring back Moore, if retweeted all of those.
There would still be certain people that scream, "YOU DON'T KNOW THE FULL STORY!!!" or "HE HAS THE RIGHT TO HIS OPINION!!!1!one!!"
I could tell you the full story, but you wouldn't believe me as you need official proof. And we all know that is never going to happen.
I am not advocating his style of social media, but he has always done straight honest answers back to the beginning of DT.
It seems that there is a large contingent just waiting to pounce the second a tweet, FB post or interview to comment on how he's an uncaring unthinking douche playing the victim. I know, it's the DTF way. What happened to the day when if you didn't like a TV show you changed the channel, now a days you get on social media and scream until nobody can watch it.
Portnoy could come up with a cure for cancer and there will be plenty of people to bash him because his tweet didn't acknowledge is former assistant.
As most of you know, I did a lot of work for DT and now MP. I don't really care one way or the other what he posts on social media. I'm all for constructive commentary and discussion. But he is who he is. All this stuff is not new, and whether he has put DT in the past or not shouldn't matter, it's his business. Every disagreeable tweet, the reaction is like you(all) have never seen it before, as a matter a fact I think people follow his feeds just to bash him. Is it that much fun to be so negative? Just change the channel.
There's a lot to comment on here but lets just start with this: Why don't YOU change the channel? You apparently dislike DTF so much yet you keep coming back. You throw around these bizarre accusations about how much we hate Portnoy so fucking much that he could cure cancer and we would complain. BTW, that's a pretty tasteless accusation as I'm sure many posters here have been affected by cancer in some way or another and would love to see cancer cured, even if it comes from that evil Portnoy who we just love to hate even though every poster here has said positive things about him at one point or another. Some in this very thread. So if we hate him so much and are so ready to pounce, why do the vast majority of posters here reserve their criticism for when he acts tactlessly? Admittedly, he does so quite often so it may seem like a lot but hey, you could change the channel.
Perhaps those critical of Portnoy should start acting as hysterical as some of his supporters.
Dude, I have no beef with you, but don't play the martyr card. You're worried about some nebulous "cancer survivor" so you pounce on Bob, but some of the ACTUAL stuff said about Mike that his family, that his KIDS might read, no one seems to give a shit about. Please. My dad's a multiple cancer survivor (just had a basal cell carcinoma removed a week ago) as well as non-Hodgkin's. Having said that? I'm very much fine with saying that if Mike cured cancer, someone would complain because he was "blowing his own horn" or "didn't thank his former assistant". Bob's right as rain on this. Just look at the number of posts here commenting not on what I have said, but about my mental (or social) state for saying it. "No one could RATIONALLY think that..." or "You must be Mike using an alias!" (or working for Mike, or some such shit), as if the anti-Mike position is simply just the most normal pose in the world and there's no room for any counter thought to that.
"Portnoy could film himself slaughtering puppies and you would still defend him!" Sounds pretty absurd, eh? I guess you can't handle that we call it like we see it. When he acts in a weird way, well, we call it like we see it. And no, I don't follow Mike just to bash him. In fact, I don't follow him at all. I follow Charlie and saw his bizarre comment.
Except, no. I know I have readily conceded I would not have posted in Charlie's thread like that. I won't speak for Bob - he's capable of that himself - but I read in his post that he acknowledges that Mike isn't perfect. All he seems to be saying - and I'm saying the same thing - is that it's not always necessary to jump to the least flattering conclusion EVERY. SINGLE. TIME.
But as for your original point, believe it or not, I wouldn't necessarily require physical proof to believe you. I've remained very open minded through this whole ordeal. Laugh if you want, but why would I praise these Shattered Fortress performances if I hate everything that the cancer curing Portnoy has ever done? Seems like you just want to dangle a line. "Look how much I know!"
Well, we know you know a lot of insider info.
For what it's worth, I also appreciate your work with DT and no difference of opinion is going to jade my view of that or Mike's contributions for that matter.
Again, more about WHO is talking and WHY they are talking than about what he ACTUALLY said. I don't know Bob well at all, but I have met him and interacted with him on more than one occasion, and in my experience, there isn't a person on this board that is LESS interested in broadcasting his bona fides about "who he knows!" and "how special he is!".
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I dont think the TV channel reasoning works so well in this instance, because lots of us like myself, want to keep the MP channel on. We like his music, and for the most part, like his presence on social media. It's just that there are those times where his posts are extremely confusing and the wording often leads to either a misunderstanding or what comes off as negativity in some fashion. I think it's fair to discuss those times and even be critical of it in some instances. We definitely over analyze things here at DTF, but I don't think that all of us here want to turn the channel off because we are mostly still fans.
Isn't that partly on the listener/reader, though? Some of this stuff - not all; i'll say again, since it keeps getting missed, that Mike isn't perfect here - is subject to interpretation. Someone here keeps saying that the tweet about the logo is calling DT "dumb" and nowhere does it say or even hint that that is the reason why they might have missed something. That's not on Mike at all; that's someone else injecting their point of view into the dialogue. That's kind of the part I'm talking about. I'm not on social media (largely for this very reason) but I'm merely saying that there's a middle ground between "Perfect Mike!" and "Passive aggressive dickhead", which seems to be the consensus here.
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Partly, sure. You interpret it one way and I interpret it another, but if MP doesn't want to leave it up to interpretation (and therefore have people interpreting his words wrongly, or negatively) then it still comes down to his poor wording sometimes. The response to Dominici is a great example of how he can be confusing.
Saying in an interview (that recent one after the show was very good btw) that he is on good terms with most of DT and has put the past in the past and then retweeting something that says DT is not good anymore, leaves people confused about what he really thinks. Of course, I can still interpret it one way and you another and context matters, but it's still MP's own words that ultimately lead to the confusion.
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I dont think the TV channel reasoning works so well in this instance, because lots of us like myself, want to keep the MP channel on. We like his music, and for the most part, like his presence on social media. It's just that there are those times where his posts are extremely confusing and the wording often leads to either a misunderstanding or what comes off as negativity in some fashion. I think it's fair to discuss those times and even be critical of it in some instances. We definitely over analyze things here at DTF, but I don't think that all of us here want to turn the channel off because we are mostly still fans.
Isn't that partly on the listener/reader, though? Some of this stuff - not all; i'll say again, since it keeps getting missed, that Mike isn't perfect here - is subject to interpretation. Someone here keeps saying that the tweet about the logo is calling DT "dumb" and nowhere does it say or even hint that that is the reason why they might have missed something. That's not on Mike at all; that's someone else injecting their point of view into the dialogue. That's kind of the part I'm talking about. I'm not on social media (largely for this very reason) but I'm merely saying that there's a middle ground between "Perfect Mike!" and "Passive aggressive dickhead", which seems to be the consensus here.
Yes, there is some interpretation but part of it is his past tweets and reaction to things. We can pretty much surmise from the past what his feelings are on the DT split so at least I take that into consideration. Like when he said something about Lars.
"And to me, I would rather watch somebody like Lars Ulrich on stage than one of these technical drummers that can do quadruple paradiddles at 240bpm. To me, that's boring. Who cares about that? I'd rather be entertained and go to a show and watch a drummer and have somebody that makes me actually smile."
He DOESN'T actually name Mangini but based on his passive aggressive nature in the past I took that to be a slight against him. If Neil Peart siad the same exact quote I would give him a pass. Although I can't imagine Neil putting down other drummers.
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I don't really have much desire to engage in this big discussion, but I must say that despite MP's statements, I never get the impression he is actually in a happy place.
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I don't really have much desire to engage in this big discussion, but I must say that despite MP's statements, I never get the impression he is actually in a happy place.
That is the feeling I get too... I think he regrets leaving Dream Theater. That was his descision though so he needs to get over it. Maybe the Shttered Fortress tour can help him in that regard but that will possibly only make him regret it even more.
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I don't really have much desire to engage in this big discussion, but I must say that despite MP's statements, I never get the impression he is actually in a happy place.
That is the feeling I get too... I think he regrets leaving Dream Theater. That was his descision though so he needs to get over it. Maybe the Shttered Fortress tour can help him in that regard but that will possibly only make him regret it even more.
I thought it would but I think it is making him regret it even more. Opening old wounds so to speak. Plus and this is pure speculation on my part but I think he figured DT would fail without him and would have to ask him back.
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I have no way of pointing to sources, but I distinctly remember an MP statement that he thought that after DT stewing on his departure for a bit they would get back together. He was totally blindsided when DT instead was already shopping for another drummer.
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I don't really have much desire to engage in this big discussion, but I must say that despite MP's statements, I never get the impression he is actually in a happy place.
That is the feeling I get too... I think he regrets leaving Dream Theater. That was his descision though so he needs to get over it. Maybe the Shttered Fortress tour can help him in that regard but that will possibly only make him regret it even more.
I thought it would but I think it is making him regret it even more. Opening old wounds so to speak. Plus and this is pure speculation on my part but I think he figured DT would fail without him and would have to ask him back.
I've always thought of the position MP put them in was more like a hostage situation....with him never in a million years believing that they'd call his 'bluff' and not give in to his demands.
I don't think he ever intended to leave nor thought they'd say 'fine' see you. He over estimated his leverage IMO.
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I don't really have much desire to engage in this big discussion, but I must say that despite MP's statements, I never get the impression he is actually in a happy place.
That is the feeling I get too... I think he regrets leaving Dream Theater. That was his descision though so he needs to get over it. Maybe the Shttered Fortress tour can help him in that regard but that will possibly only make him regret it even more.
OF COURSE he regrets leaving Dream Theater. Click the Mladen sig here in my profile to something I wrote up years ago. It's pretty obviously he took a chance, and gambled the band would fall in line and wouldn't do anything without him -- and he was wrong. And he has regretted it ever since, trying to find a way to get back in. And all he has really done since then is bide his time doing a bunch of other things that interest him, hoping, at some point, he could make it happen that he rejoined.
Now, years later, he realizes that probably isn't going to happen. So, he does Shattered Fortress, trying to both celebrate and recapture his past, and is starting a prog metal band, that I am sure will play a track or two of Dream Theater in its sets that Mike helped write. He probably hopes that by having Derek, a kick ass songwriting team, and a great singer, that he can get back to the level DT is at, to bookend his career and have something a bit more stable.
We'll see...
I've never met Mike Portnoy. I know people who know him, but I have not met the man. So going ONLY from his public persona, and reading between the lines, and taking some commentary from those that do know him -- he's not a bad person. He's a sensitive guy who wears his emotions on his sleeve. He is an uber fan of things he likes, so he prides himself on delivering that same level of fandom and access to people who are fans of the music he helps create.
Sometimes, that passion turns into putting his foot into his mouth. And he certainly has a streak of anger when it comes to DT, and that, at times, leaks through when he talks about DT in the public eye. But can you blame him? I mean, the band that he co-founded, wrote with, built into this juggernaut (remember, it was Mike that did not want to go commercial on FII -- John sided with the label -- and they bounced back with SFAM, which was spurred by Mike), and then he made a poor choice trying to step away.
Had Mike simply backed off all his self-imposed "duties" for a couple of record and touring cycles, and just been a drummer, he probably would have given himself time to do some of those other projects and not leave DT. But instead, his ego got the best of him, and boom, he's out of the band. Mistakes happen. He knows it. The band knows it. But while we're years down the road at this point, too much has likely been said (publicly and privately) for DT to bring Mike Portnoy back in, unless Mike Mangini leaves of his own accord.
If Mangini ever decided he didn't want DT any longer, I think a big sit down between Portnoy and the DT guys would happen, and they'd make it happen. But that's only if Mangini decided that HE wanted to leave. If he's content and happy, the band likely will never get rid of him. He's too good, and obviously, he doesn't talk as much as Portnoy does, so it's easier to control the messaging...
Portnoy isn't a bad guy. Neither are the DT guys. Shit happens, you move on. Portnoy hasn't been able to move on as well as the other guys have. And that was expected (at least by me). But if Shattered Fortress and his new band ends up letting Mike rebuild his prog metal career and provide stability, and compete (the new band) at times with DT, I think Mike will be better for it.
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I don't really have much desire to engage in this big discussion, but I must say that despite MP's statements, I never get the impression he is actually in a happy place.
That is the feeling I get too... I think he regrets leaving Dream Theater. That was his descision though so he needs to get over it. Maybe the Shttered Fortress tour can help him in that regard but that will possibly only make him regret it even more.
I thought it would but I think it is making him regret it even more. Opening old wounds so to speak. Plus and this is pure speculation on my part but I think he figured DT would fail without him and would have to ask him back.
I've always thought of the position MP put them in was more like a hostage situation....with him never in a million years believing that they'd call his 'bluff' and not give in to his demands.
I don't think he ever intended to leave nor thought they'd say 'fine' see you. He over estimated his leverage IMO.
Yes I agree and when he tried to get back in, it was just for the "fans"
"Fairly recently, I reached out to the guys to try and make amends and offered to reconcile for the sake of having peace back in our lives… (plus I know how much it meant to a lot of the fans…)
Read more at https://www.blabbermouth.net/news/mike-portnoy-i-tried-to-rejoin-dream-theater-but-was-rebuffed.html#ypvmiUXm8jseMDem.99
Even in that new video interview the one that is part 1 of 3, the interviewer asks if he is doing the Shattered Fortress for a present to himself, he says no for the fans. Then why not play A Change of Seasons just because DT is playing it. Since his band seems to be far better than DT and I'm sure the fans would love to hear that played by his band.
Damn, I am sounding snarky. :(
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First, as far as you go Stadler, you are clearly not being rational. I didn't refer to some cancer survivor. I merely said everyone here has been touched by cancer in some way (knowing someone personally or having it themselves), and Bob's little analogy was just ridiculous. You didn't touch the fact that all of us here have praised Mike at some point or another and then slam us and claim you and Bob are more open minded because you passively said his social media actions are sometimes not preferable. Give me a break.
I don't think there is another poster on this board that manipulates words as much as you do. I mostly just ignored your wordy diatribes and bizarre irrational arguments but I for whatever reason decided to reengage. You decided you would down with the ship at any costs and you find yourself on the ocean floor. I think it's back to turning the channel on you.
Yes, there is some interpretation but part of it is his past tweets and reaction to things. We can pretty much surmise from the past what his feelings are on the DT split so at least I take that into consideration. Like when he said something about Lars.
"And to me, I would rather watch somebody like Lars Ulrich on stage than one of these technical drummers that can do quadruple paradiddles at 240bpm. To me, that's boring. Who cares about that? I'd rather be entertained and go to a show and watch a drummer and have somebody that makes me actually smile."
He DOESN'T actually name Mangini but based on his passive aggressive nature in the past I took that to be a slight against him. If Neil Peart siad the same exact quote I would give him a pass. Although I can't imagine Neil putting down other drummers.
This particular situation was interesting because I remember hearing Mangini talk about paradiddles and thinking, "I've never heard of that term." Not too long later Portnoy is talking about how he doesn't care about paradiddles or playing 240bpm or whatever. Hmmm, pretty obvious what he's talking about here.
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I don't really have much desire to engage in this big discussion, but I must say that despite MP's statements, I never get the impression he is actually in a happy place.
That is the feeling I get too... I think he regrets leaving Dream Theater. That was his descision though so he needs to get over it. Maybe the Shttered Fortress tour can help him in that regard but that will possibly only make him regret it even more.
OF COURSE he regrets leaving Dream Theater. Click the Mladen sig here in my profile to something I wrote up years ago. It's pretty obviously he took a chance, and gambled the band would fall in line and wouldn't do anything without him -- and he was wrong. And he has regretted it ever since, trying to find a way to get back in. And all he has really done since then is bide his time doing a bunch of other things that interest him, hoping, at some point, he could make it happen that he rejoined.
Now, years later, he realizes that probably isn't going to happen. So, he does Shattered Fortress, trying to both celebrate and recapture his past, and is starting a prog metal band, that I am sure will play a track or two of Dream Theater in its sets that Mike helped write. He probably hopes that by having Derek, a kick ass songwriting team, and a great singer, that he can get back to the level DT is at, to bookend his career and have something a bit more stable.
We'll see...
I've never met Mike Portnoy. I know people who know him, but I have not met the man. So going ONLY from his public persona, and reading between the lines, and taking some commentary from those that do know him -- he's not a bad person. He's a sensitive guy who wears his emotions on his sleeve. He is an uber fan of things he likes, so he prides himself on delivering that same level of fandom and access to people who are fans of the music he helps create.
Sometimes, that passion turns into putting his foot into his mouth. And he certainly has a streak of anger when it comes to DT, and that, at times, leaks through when he talks about DT in the public eye. But can you blame him? I mean, the band that he co-founded, wrote with, built into this juggernaut (remember, it was Mike that did not want to go commercial on FII -- John sided with the label -- and they bounced back with SFAM, which was spurred by Mike), and then he made a poor choice trying to step away.
Had Mike simply backed off all his self-imposed "duties" for a couple of record and touring cycles, and just been a drummer, he probably would have given himself time to do some of those other projects and not leave DT. But instead, his ego got the best of him, and boom, he's out of the band. Mistakes happen. He knows it. The band knows it. But while we're years down the road at this point, too much has likely been said (publicly and privately) for DT to bring Mike Portnoy back in, unless Mike Mangini leaves of his own accord.
If Mangini ever decided he didn't want DT any longer, I think a big sit down between Portnoy and the DT guys would happen, and they'd make it happen. But that's only if Mangini decided that HE wanted to leave. If he's content and happy, the band likely will never get rid of him. He's too good, and obviously, he doesn't talk as much as Portnoy does, so it's easier to control the messaging...
Portnoy isn't a bad guy. Neither are the DT guys. Shit happens, you move on. Portnoy hasn't been able to move on as well as the other guys have. And that was expected (at least by me). But if Shattered Fortress and his new band ends up letting Mike rebuild his prog metal career and provide stability, and compete (the new band) at times with DT, I think Mike will be better for it.
Good post. I agree Mike is not a bad guy at all, I just wish he was a bit more honest with his remarks and would show a little humility. His drumming and lyrics in DT were always great and fun to listen to.
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OF COURSE he regrets leaving Dream Theater. Click the Mladen sig here in my profile to something I wrote up years ago. It's pretty obviously he took a chance, and gambled the band would fall in line and wouldn't do anything without him -- and he was wrong. And he has regretted it ever since, trying to find a way to get back in. And all he has really done since then is bide his time doing a bunch of other things that interest him, hoping, at some point, he could make it happen that he rejoined.
Now, years later, he realizes that probably isn't going to happen. So, he does Shattered Fortress, trying to both celebrate and recapture his past, and is starting a prog metal band, that I am sure will play a track or two of Dream Theater in its sets that Mike helped write. He probably hopes that by having Derek, a kick ass songwriting team, and a great singer, that he can get back to the level DT is at, to bookend his career and have something a bit more stable.
We'll see...
I've never met Mike Portnoy. I know people who know him, but I have not met the man. So going ONLY from his public persona, and reading between the lines, and taking some commentary from those that do know him -- he's not a bad person. He's a sensitive guy who wears his emotions on his sleeve. He is an uber fan of things he likes, so he prides himself on delivering that same level of fandom and access to people who are fans of the music he helps create.
Sometimes, that passion turns into putting his foot into his mouth. And he certainly has a streak of anger when it comes to DT, and that, at times, leaks through when he talks about DT in the public eye. But can you blame him? I mean, the band that he co-founded, wrote with, built into this juggernaut (remember, it was Mike that did not want to go commercial on FII -- John sided with the label -- and they bounced back with SFAM, which was spurred by Mike), and then he made a poor choice trying to step away.
Had Mike simply backed off all his self-imposed "duties" for a couple of record and touring cycles, and just been a drummer, he probably would have given himself time to do some of those other projects and not leave DT. But instead, his ego got the best of him, and boom, he's out of the band. Mistakes happen. He knows it. The band knows it. But while we're years down the road at this point, too much has likely been said (publicly and privately) for DT to bring Mike Portnoy back in, unless Mike Mangini leaves of his own accord.
If Mangini ever decided he didn't want DT any longer, I think a big sit down between Portnoy and the DT guys would happen, and they'd make it happen. But that's only if Mangini decided that HE wanted to leave. If he's content and happy, the band likely will never get rid of him. He's too good, and obviously, he doesn't talk as much as Portnoy does, so it's easier to control the messaging...
Portnoy isn't a bad guy. Neither are the DT guys. Shit happens, you move on. Portnoy hasn't been able to move on as well as the other guys have. And that was expected (at least by me). But if Shattered Fortress and his new band ends up letting Mike rebuild his prog metal career and provide stability, and compete (the new band) at times with DT, I think Mike will be better for it.
Great post. It should really close the loop on the last, what, 20 pages of this thread. I'm begging one of the mods to end this.
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First, as far as you go Stadler, you are clearly not being rational. I didn't refer to some cancer survivor. I merely said everyone here has been touched by cancer in some way (knowing someone personally or having it themselves), and Bob's little analogy was just ridiculous. You didn't touch the fact that all of us here have praised Mike at some point or another and then slam us and claim you and Bob are more open minded because you passively said his social media actions are sometimes not preferable. Give me a break.
I don't think there is another poster on this board that manipulates words as much as you do. I mostly just ignored your wordy diatribes and bizarre irrational arguments but I for whatever reason decided to reengage. You decided you would down with the ship at any costs and you find yourself on the ocean floor. I think it's back to turning the channel on you.
Yes, there is some interpretation but part of it is his past tweets and reaction to things. We can pretty much surmise from the past what his feelings are on the DT split so at least I take that into consideration. Like when he said something about Lars.
"And to me, I would rather watch somebody like Lars Ulrich on stage than one of these technical drummers that can do quadruple paradiddles at 240bpm. To me, that's boring. Who cares about that? I'd rather be entertained and go to a show and watch a drummer and have somebody that makes me actually smile."
He DOESN'T actually name Mangini but based on his passive aggressive nature in the past I took that to be a slight against him. If Neil Peart siad the same exact quote I would give him a pass. Although I can't imagine Neil putting down other drummers.
This particular situation was interesting because I remember hearing Mangini talk about paradiddles and thinking, "I've never heard of that term." Not too long later Portnoy is talking about how he doesn't care about paradiddles or playing 240bpm or whatever. Hmmm, pretty obvious what he's talking about here.
This ties into that, this is from an interview when MP was in DT.
Akhil Pa asks, Is there any drummer whose style you feel but just can't emulate?
"Hmmm. That's a good one. I don't know. Any drummer who's been a big influence on me, I've always been able to replicate what they do and work up a mock version of their style - to a certain degree. John Bonham, Keith Moon, Ringo, Neil Peart - I've played their music in all of my tribute bands. I feel them, I know their style, and when I played their parts in those tribute bands I was able to replicate them respectfully and somewhat authentically.
"There's other drummers: Terry Bozzio is one of my favorites, and I feel a strong presence of his style within me. As much as people love to bash on him and hate him, Lars Ulrich is great - there's a lot of him in what I do. Stewart Copeland, too - I love to emulate what he does."
"Anybody I can't replicate? I don't know. Maybe some of the super, super-technical guys like Thomas Lang and Virgil Donati and Mike Mangini - they do things that I physically can't do. But the drummers who really influenced me, they're all in me and they come out, whether I like it or not."
https://www.musicradar.com/news/guitars/dream-theaters-mike-portnoy-answers-your-questions-256514#
Also
"As far as a band making me jump ship from Dream Theater…I don't think I could ever leave Dream Theater permanently. I could see Dream Theater taking a break. I'll be very happy to play with Avenged Sevenfold, but I couldn't do it instead of Dream Theater. The fulfillment I get in Dream Theater…I've spent 25 years building the band and quote-unquote 'leading' this band, so I could never really leave it. It's my baby. Even if Rush or Metallica offered me the gig, I couldn't leave Dream Theater. It's a home I always need to return to."
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I'm begging one of the mods to end this.
Why? If we can't discuss MP and DT on a DT forum that would be kinda weird. As long as no one is breaking the rules I don't see why it should be ended.
Didn't MP ban all DT related discussion on his forum? I'd hate to see that kind of thing happen here.
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i'll say again, since it keeps getting missed, that Mike isn't perfect here - is subject to interpretation.
But this isn't the point, it never was, and none of us is complaining because "he is not perfect"!, that'd be painfully absurd.. Actually, I don't even think a reasonable person would think there are human beings who are perfect at all.. The problem isn't that, but, as we've been saying in this thread EVERY. SINGLE. TIME:
I just wish he would think a little bit more before posting sometimes. I can not see any background story that would change that.
That's all.. And I know there are MP haters that say and would say he's the worst person in the world and what not, but we aren't those guys, they're not here, or at least they're not posting in this thread.. So, as we're doing with Mike's comments (talking about what we read, and not about we don't know, as obvious as that is), I'd ask you to do the same, and talk about what we're saying and not exaggerating our complaints as if they were a life sentence for him - for instance, the cancer analogy doesn't apply in the minimal, it's just ridiculous..
See, I love what MP has done musically, and would be the last person in trying to see something wrong with what he posts in social media.. I actually think he is THE BEST DRUMMER, EVER, besides being a great influence in me in more than one way.. That's my personal opinion about his musical/artistic talent over other drummer's that I have heard, and you can imagine I don't precisely enjoy when he does this kind of things.. But then, again, and as you said yourself about his comment in Charlie's post, that you wouldn't have written that, the same we think about other of his posts that we're talking about in this thread..
We, unlike MP, are explaining ourselves, and telling the full "story", the meaning behind our comments or reactions, so they should not be interpreted in any conjectural way, whether malicious or kind..
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I'm begging one of the mods to end this.
For the record, this thread bugs the hell out of me, but the subject matter an obvious point of discussion here.
I just wish that this incredibly talented group of musicians playing this amazing music and doing it so well wasn't overshadowed and forgotten among some legitimate concerns wrapped in a lot of TMZ bullshit and overly contentious drama.
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I'm begging one of the mods to end this.
Why? If we can't discuss MP and DT on a DT forum that would be kinda weird. As long as no one is breaking the rules I don't see why it should be ended.
Didn't MP ban all DT related discussion on his forum? I'd hate to see that kind of thing happen here.
It's not the same. This has been pointless rehashing of nonsense. Anyway, that's my opinion. :)
For the record, this thread bugs the hell out of me, but the subject matter an obvious point of discussion here.
Thanks Nick. It's appreciated.
Not directing this at Nick..
It's just, what is the point? What are we actually discussing?
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Away from the whole MP and DT relation argument anyone know if there are any good bootlegs around? Would love to listen to the set again
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I hope they don't end this thread, it was bad enough when the MP forum banned all mention of DT after Mike left. Perhaps another thread so people that are interested in The Shattered Fortress tour don't have to sift though all the other stuff. Call it the WTF was Mike thinking?? Thread
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I hope they don't end this thread, it was bad enough when the MP forum banned all mention of DT after Mike left. Perhaps another thread so people that are interested in The Shattered Fortress tour don't have to sift though all the other stuff. Call it the WTF was Mike thinking?? Thread
For the record, neither do I. The Shattered Fortress and its developments should be discussed here. I just find the whole psycho analyzing of MP, and his intentions, to be unproductive, in a sense that this has all been said.
And then someone like Bob, who can actually add something to the thread, gets called out.. I guess I can "change the channel"..
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I'm begging one of the mods to end this.
Why? If we can't discuss MP and DT on a DT forum that would be kinda weird. As long as no one is breaking the rules I don't see why it should be ended.
Didn't MP ban all DT related discussion on his forum? I'd hate to see that kind of thing happen here.
It's not the same. This has been pointless rehashing of nonsense. Anyway, that's my opinion. :)
How so? MP stopped letting people talk about DT on his forum. I was saying that I hoped we could continue to talk about MP on a DT forum. Not a perfect parallel but definitely related ideas.
For the record, this thread bugs the hell out of me, but the subject matter an obvious point of discussion here.
Thanks Nick. It's appreciated.
Not directing this at Nick..
It's just, what is the point? What are we actually discussing?
MP started a band that is touring specifically with the goal of playing DT songs. We are discussing that. Along with that are the things MP does and says publicly revolving around this project and DT in general. I mean, it's a discussion forum...
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So..
What other Dream Theater songs would you guys wanna see this band play? It'd be cool to see this line up playing some of the heavier stuff off of SC and BCSL.
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How so? MP stopped letting people talk about DT on his forum. I was saying that I hoped we could continue to talk about MP on a DT forum. Not a perfect parallel but definitely related ideas.
It's not even close. MP was basically censoring his forum, which I thought was weak. This isn't a DT forum, but a DT fan forum, so it wouldn't make any sense to censor MP talk, which is not what I was suggesting in any way. I just find that a lot of good intended discussion ends up going around and around into a circle of rehashed nonsense, that's all.
MP started a band that is touring specifically with the goal of playing DT songs. We are discussing that. Along with that are the things MP does and says publicly revolving around this project and DT in general. I mean, it's a discussion forum...
All true. All good. Seems like rehashing the drama is..I don't know...tired, I guess.
Mike, feel free to respond, but I'm going to drop it. I've derailed the thread enough.
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I know I've contributed to the MP talk so maybe it's best someone just starts a new thread if the discussion wants to be continued.
I don't think MP's social media usage should take away from the discussion of the music that we all love.
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So..
What other Dream Theater songs would you guys wanna see this band play? It'd be cool to see this line up playing some of the heavier stuff off of SC and BCSL.
What about Raw Dog? I'm serious.
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I checked out videos of this tour on Youtube and found the performances to be pretty good: high energy, faithful reproductions of the original songs.
However, they are just nothing special according to my taste. I mean, I like hearing the songs but as long as the real Dream Theater co-exists with 2/3 founding members, and JLB (who is central to the DT sound for me) - I just have no real interest in MP's band.
I mean, to check it out as a neat youtube video is fine enough, but I'm nowhere near interested enough to actually pay money to go watch it.
And again - my personal opinion only - I find all the claims that "this is the magic that real DT lacks, etc. etc." to be utterly laughable.
For me the analogy is: I have attended Paul McCartney's solo concerts and enjoyed myself, but never once felt like saying "This is the real Beatles; Paul has the real magic; etc. etc."
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I checked out videos of this tour on Youtube and found the performances to be pretty good: high energy, faithful reproductions of the original songs.
However, they are just nothing special according to my taste. I mean, I like hearing the songs but as long as the real Dream Theater co-exists with 2/3 founding members, and JLB (who is central to the DT sound for me) - I just have no real interest in MP's band.
I mean, to check it out as a neat youtube video is fine enough, but I'm nowhere near interested enough to actually pay money to go watch it.
And again - my personal opinion only - I find all the claims that "this is the magic that real DT lacks, etc. etc." to be utterly laughable, and what's more important: unnecessarily tendentious.
For me the analogy is: I have attended Paul McCartney's solo concerts and enjoyed myself, but never once felt like saying "This is the real Beatles; Paul has the real magic; etc. etc."
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And then someone like Bob, who can actually add something to the thread, gets called out..
You mean more mystery, right?.. :lol
Seriously though, I agree with mikeyd23.. I don't think is out of place to talk about MP in a MP thread.. But yeah, maybe we can cut with all of this a little bit; I don't think a mod should shut down this thread, but probably should ask us to stay more on Shattered Fortress' topic rather than in MP's comment's topic.. A new thread talking about the latter can be started so people that doesn't want to read the discussion would open this one.. Just a thought..
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So..
What other Dream Theater songs would you guys wanna see this band play? It'd be cool to see this line up playing some of the heavier stuff off of SC and BCSL.
What about Raw Dog? I'm serious.
I could get behind that.
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So..
What other Dream Theater songs would you guys wanna see this band play? It'd be cool to see this line up playing some of the heavier stuff off of SC and BCSL.
Well, but they're already playing one of the two songs that are on those two albums, that are heavy (probably even the heavier stuff actually) and that were lyrically written by MP..
And yeah, I'm all for Raw Dog too! :metal, I don't think DT would ever play it..
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Raw Dog is awesome, and I never understood the hate it got.
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So..
What other Dream Theater songs would you guys wanna see this band play? It'd be cool to see this line up playing some of the heavier stuff off of SC and BCSL.
What about Raw Dog? I'm serious.
I could get behind that.
Me too, I think I'm one of the very few who enjoys that song for what it is, but also it would be kind of fitting as his last DT song.
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I was thinking like ANtR and like ITPOE
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Raw Dog is awesome, and I never understood the hate it got.
I wouldn't go so far as to say it's awesome but there is certainly nothing wrong with that song and a lot that's right with it.
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I was thinking like ANtR and like ITPOE
I think one issue is the length. He has limited time, and would have to cut out almost the rest of the non 12SS in order to play those two songs.
It'd be awesome though. Take the songs DT doesn't do much and do them, or do them better. That's why I love that he's playing Finally Free. His drummer makes that ending awesome, and without it, as we've seen with current DT, it's not too interesting to me.
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I checked out videos of this tour on Youtube and found the performances to be pretty good: high energy, faithful reproductions of the original songs.
However, they are just nothing special according to my taste. I mean, I like hearing the songs but as long as the real Dream Theater co-exists with 2/3 founding members, and JLB (who is central to the DT sound for me) - I just have no real interest in MP's band.
I mean, to check it out as a neat youtube video is fine enough, but I'm nowhere near interested enough to actually pay money to go watch it.
And again - my personal opinion only - I find all the claims that "this is the magic that real DT lacks, etc. etc." to be utterly laughable, and what's more important: unnecessarily tendentious.
For me the analogy is: I have attended Paul McCartney's solo concerts and enjoyed myself, but never once felt like saying "This is the real Beatles; Paul has the real magic; etc. etc."
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Had Mike simply backed off all his self-imposed "duties" for a couple of record and touring cycles, and just been a drummer, he probably would have given himself time to do some of those other projects and not leave DT. But instead, his ego got the best of him, and boom, he's out of the band. Mistakes happen. He knows it. The band knows it.
Portnoy isn't a bad guy. Neither are the DT guys. Shit happens, you move on. Portnoy hasn't been able to move on as well as the other guys have. And that was expected (at least by me). But if Shattered Fortress and his new band ends up letting Mike rebuild his prog metal career and provide stability, and compete (the new band) at times with DT, I think Mike will be better for it.
I've just now read this and your other post (the one it's linked in your sig) and, like also some others have stated, I too agree with all you're saying -in general-, but I don't however agree -with the particular statement- that this was a mistake.. I mean, that's relative for starters.. From DT's point of view doesn't look like they feel it was a mistake, at least not now that they've done all that they've done in these past almost seven years now (wow, time goes by!).. From the fans' point of view, sure lot of them think it was a shitty thing to happen, but there are plenty that think it was actually good and better for all of them, and a good amount that just don't care to name it, and think that if happened, happened for a reason, and it's fine; this happens to be my posture.. Finally, from MP's point of view, yes, it looks like he feels it was a mistake, but even in his case we can't know for sure what his thoughts really are, and, more important, what would've happened if he would've stayed in DT... Because, why taking for granted that he/the rest of the guys/we the fans would be happier?.. I think we shouldn't speculate about what would've happened (at least if we're trying to approximate to a logical conclusion about this whole issue), but only talk about what actually happened, and that is, MP's not in DT, so we can't compare the two situations, simply because one of them is non-existing..
I was thinking like ANtR and like ITPOE
I think one issue is the length. He has limited time, and would have to cut out almost the rest of the non 12SS in order to play those two songs.
And another other issue is that MP said they won't play songs he didn't write the lyrics for, so that'd rule out those two... but yeah, if they would, those would be great.. However, if we're talking about epics, I'd rather see them play In the Name of God or Octavarium.. :azn:
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I'd personally love for MP to play some stuff from FII that he's proud of to celebrate its 20th anniversary.
I've just now read this and your other post (the one it's linked in your sig) and, like also some others have stated, I too agree with all you're saying -in general-, but I don't however agree -with the particular statement- that this was a mistake.. I mean, that's relative for starters.. From DT's point of view doesn't look like they feel it was a mistake, at least not now that they've done all that they've done in these past almost seven years now (wow, time goes by!).. From the fans' point of view, sure lot of them think it was a shitty thing to happen, but there are plenty that think it was actually good and better for all of them, and a good amount that just don't care to name it, and think that if happened, happened for a reason, and it's fine; this happens to be my posture.. Finally, from MP's point of view, yes, it looks like he feels it was a mistake, but even in his case we can't know for sure what his thoughts really are, and, more important, what would've happened if he would've stayed in DT... Because, why taking for granted that he/the rest of the guys/we the fans would be happier?.. I think we shouldn't speculate about what would've happened (at least if we're trying to approximate to a logical conclusion about this whole issue), but only talk about what actually happened, and that is, MP's not in DT, so we can't compare the two situations, simply because one of them is non-existing..
Let me clarify -- I didn't mean to say it was a mistake for Dream Theater. I was speaking that looking at it from Mike's perspective, it was a mistake. In regard to the speculation though -- to be honest, that's really what these forums are for. As long as people understand it is just that...speculation. Nothing more.
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How so? MP stopped letting people talk about DT on his forum. I was saying that I hoped we could continue to talk about MP on a DT forum. Not a perfect parallel but definitely related ideas.
It's not even close. MP was basically censoring his forum, which I thought was weak. This isn't a DT forum, but a DT fan forum, so it wouldn't make any sense to censor MP talk, which is not what I was suggesting in any way. I just find that a lot of good intended discussion ends up going around and around into a circle of rehashed nonsense, that's all.
I feel you.
MP started a band that is touring specifically with the goal of playing DT songs. We are discussing that. Along with that are the things MP does and says publicly revolving around this project and DT in general. I mean, it's a discussion forum...
All true. All good. Seems like rehashing the drama is..I don't know...tired, I guess.
Mike, feel free to respond, but I'm going to drop it. I've derailed the thread enough.
We are rehashing drama no doubt, but I think the reason it's getting rehashed (to some degree) is the Shattered Fortress and MP's comments around it. Obviously a lot of other stuff got brought up, but it seems like a lot of the rehashing was based around this project and new-ish comments from Mike.
PS - They totally should play Raw Dog, that would be awesome just because it would be so random. I'd love that.
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I'd personally love for MP to play some stuff from FII that he's proud of to celebrate its 20th anniversary.
I've just now read this and your other post (the one it's linked in your sig) and, like also some others have stated, I too agree with all you're saying -in general-, but I don't however agree -with the particular statement- that this was a mistake.. I mean, that's relative for starters.. From DT's point of view doesn't look like they feel it was a mistake, at least not now that they've done all that they've done in these past almost seven years now (wow, time goes by!).. From the fans' point of view, sure lot of them think it was a shitty thing to happen, but there are plenty that think it was actually good and better for all of them, and a good amount that just don't care to name it, and think that if happened, happened for a reason, and it's fine; this happens to be my posture.. Finally, from MP's point of view, yes, it looks like he feels it was a mistake, but even in his case we can't know for sure what his thoughts really are, and, more important, what would've happened if he would've stayed in DT... Because, why taking for granted that he/the rest of the guys/we the fans would be happier?.. I think we shouldn't speculate about what would've happened (at least if we're trying to approximate to a logical conclusion about this whole issue), but only talk about what actually happened, and that is, MP's not in DT, so we can't compare the two situations, simply because one of them is non-existing..
Let me clarify -- I didn't mean to say it was a mistake for Dream Theater. I was speaking that looking at it from Mike's perspective, it was a mistake. In regard to the speculation though -- to be honest, that's really what these forums are for. As long as people understand it is just that...speculation. Nothing more.
Ok, now we're on the same page... although literally we are.. ;D
About the FII songs, MP said in an interview that he would reserved those songs for when he tour with Derek..
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I'd personally love for MP to play some stuff from FII that he's proud of to celebrate its 20th anniversary.
I've just now read this and your other post (the one it's linked in your sig) and, like also some others have stated, I too agree with all you're saying -in general-, but I don't however agree -with the particular statement- that this was a mistake.. I mean, that's relative for starters.. From DT's point of view doesn't look like they feel it was a mistake, at least not now that they've done all that they've done in these past almost seven years now (wow, time goes by!).. From the fans' point of view, sure lot of them think it was a shitty thing to happen, but there are plenty that think it was actually good and better for all of them, and a good amount that just don't care to name it, and think that if happened, happened for a reason, and it's fine; this happens to be my posture.. Finally, from MP's point of view, yes, it looks like he feels it was a mistake, but even in his case we can't know for sure what his thoughts really are, and, more important, what would've happened if he would've stayed in DT... Because, why taking for granted that he/the rest of the guys/we the fans would be happier?.. I think we shouldn't speculate about what would've happened (at least if we're trying to approximate to a logical conclusion about this whole issue), but only talk about what actually happened, and that is, MP's not in DT, so we can't compare the two situations, simply because one of them is non-existing..
Let me clarify -- I didn't mean to say it was a mistake for Dream Theater. I was speaking that looking at it from Mike's perspective, it was a mistake. In regard to the speculation though -- to be honest, that's really what these forums are for. As long as people understand it is just that...speculation. Nothing more.
Ok, now we're on the same page... although literally we are.. ;D
About the FII songs, MP said in an interview that he would reserved those songs for when he tour with Derek..
I thought he said he wasn't playing any more DT tunes after this?
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About the FII songs, MP said in an interview that he would reserved those songs for when he tour with Derek..
I thought he said he wasn't playing any more DT tunes after this?
https://youtu.be/EqJvGNegbag?t=640
He doesn't literally say that he's going to play DT songs with Derek, but is strongly implying it..
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I'd be surprised if he doesn't do at least one DT, FII song with Derek in their new group.
I think he just meant this was the last time he'd do a whole project or tour focused solely on DT music.
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I'd be surprised if he doesn't do at least one DT, FII song with Derek in their new group.
I think he just meant this was the last time he'd do a whole project or tour focused solely on DT music.
Yup, that's exactly how I took that statement from MP as well.
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I'd be surprised if he doesn't do at least one DT, FII song with Derek in their new group.
I think he just meant this was the last time he'd do a whole project or tour focused solely on DT music.
Yup, that's exactly how I took that statement from MP as well.
Yes me too. Plus to be honest that would be a better place to play ACOS because 2 or the 5 players will be there. I really hope the guitar player is Eric Gillette, he is an amazing player and vocalist.
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I'd be surprised if he doesn't do at least one DT, FII song with Derek in their new group.
I think he just meant this was the last time he'd do a whole project or tour focused solely on DT music.
Yup, that's exactly how I took that statement from MP as well.
Yes me too. Plus to be honest that would be a better place to play ACOS because 2 or the 5 players will be there. I really hope the guitar player is Eric Gillette, he is an amazing player and vocalist.
Guitar player, yes. Vocalist? Oh god no.
If the rumors are true which it seems like they are, Bumblefoot is a pretty amazing vocalist when he tries.
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Raw Dog is awesome, and I never understood the hate it got.
I love the machine-gun JP riff around 3:19.
People get mad at this song for reasons like:
1) It shouldn't have been MP's last official track with DT
Nobody knew it would be so this is a lame reason.
2) They just used old riffs from BC&SL
So what? Musicians write loads of music that never even has the chance to get recorded, guys like Bon Jovi and Springsteen and Mclachlan write 25-40 songs per album cycle. For me some of the best DT music came from the FII sessions when they did write so much music.
Anyway, I think it's a cool little song.
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Raw Dog is awesome, and I never understood the hate it got.
I love the machine-gun JP riff around 3:19.
People get mad at this song for reasons like:
1) It shouldn't have been MP's last official track with DT
Nobody knew it would be so this is a lame reason.
2) They just used old riffs from BC&SL
So what? Musicians write loads of music that never even has the chance to get recorded, guys like Bon Jovi and Springsteen and Mclachlan write 25-40 songs per album cycle. For me some of the best DT music came from the FII sessions when they did write so much music.
Anyway, I think it's a cool little song.
What? I've heard both of those things, but never as a reason to dislike the song. I think people dislike it because they don't think it's very good.
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I don't hate it, but it's obvious b-side material. I don't care if it's the last track or what riffs it recycled, it's boring and not worth taking up 8 min of set time.
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I don't hate it, but it's obvious b-side material. I don't care if it's the last track or what riffs it recycled, it's boring and not worth taking up 8 min of set time.
I hadn't thought of either of those "reasons" not to like it, but would also argue it isn't worth taking up 8 minutes of my life time.
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I forgot that, I think it was MP, said that it was mainly left over riffs from the BC&SL sessions. I always wondered where those pieces may have fit or what they could have become on the album.
I also always thought that the riff starting at 1:22 sounded like it was written for a video game, like a boss battle or something.
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I think it's just insight into how DT comes up with songs (or at least the way it was when MP was in the band, seems like things are slightly different at least on The Astonishing). They jam out parts and piece them together into a song. I wouldn't be surprised if every album has another 20-30 minutes of unused riffs/musical ideas.
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Yeah, people genuinely dislike it, but I always think it has to do more with how's structured.. I like it, but can't stand the intro/outro.. The same thing happens to me with Trial of Tears and The Great Debate; all of them starts/finish in that dense and repetitive climax, which I'm sure some like, but not me, and maybe this is the case for some here with RD..
The thing is, the fact that you already know there's this whole section right at the beginning that you don't like at all, end up kind of blocking you 1) to not listen to the song or 2) to listen to it but having to wait the disliked section or skipping it, which anyways cut the flow or continuity of it..
But yeah, compared to another similar DT instrumental like Enigma machine, I prefer Raw Dog.. Other than the intro/outro, I enjoy almost every riff of it, and specially the JP solo, one of his best of this kind of solo..
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The more I think about it the more I hope his new prog metal band plays alot of DT, at least from FII on back. I don't think Derek would have any more interest in playing Jordan's parts that MP would MM. That way there can be sort of two DT's especially in Gillette is the guitar player.
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The more I think about it the more I hope his new prog metal band plays alot of DT, at least from FII on back. I don't think Derek would have any more interest in playing Jordan's parts that MP would MM. That way there can be sort of two DT's especially in Gillette is the guitar player.
There was actually a hilarious quote from Mike Portnoy about the Shattered Fortress shows when people were speculating about who the players were. In response to someone who thought it would be Derek, Mike said something like, "Let me put it this way. Derek has as much interest in playing Jordan's keyboard parts as I have playing The Astonishing."
To my knowledge, no one here criticized him for that even though we supposedly jump on every little thing he says (like the time he cured cancer) but I thought it was hilarious.
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^ I can remember some people jumped onto that, but I actually thought that was a pretty witty and funny comment. And it makes perfect sense as well, nothing wrong with that one at all. But don't kid yourself, there was definitely some people bashing MP for that comment too.
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The more I think about it the more I hope his new prog metal band plays alot of DT, at least from FII on back. I don't think Derek would have any more interest in playing Jordan's parts that MP would MM. That way there can be sort of two DT's especially in Gillette is the guitar player.
There was actually a hilarious quote from Mike Portnoy about the Shattered Fortress shows when people were speculating about who the players were. In response to someone who thought it would be Derek, Mike said something like, "Let me put it this way. Derek has as much interest in playing Jordan's keyboard parts as I have playing The Astonishing."
To my knowledge, no one here criticized him for that even though we supposedly jump on every little thing he says (like the time he cured cancer) but I thought it was hilarious.
Actually I'm pretty sure people did criticise him for that quote, though it was only for a short time.
Also what is a hyperbole
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The more I think about it the more I hope his new prog metal band plays alot of DT, at least from FII on back. I don't think Derek would have any more interest in playing Jordan's parts that MP would MM. That way there can be sort of two DT's especially in Gillette is the guitar player.
There was actually a hilarious quote from Mike Portnoy about the Shattered Fortress shows when people were speculating about who the players were. In response to someone who thought it would be Derek, Mike said something like, "Let me put it this way. Derek has as much interest in playing Jordan's keyboard parts as I have playing The Astonishing."
To my knowledge, no one here criticized him for that even though we supposedly jump on every little thing he says (like the time he cured cancer) but I thought it was hilarious.
Actually I'm pretty sure people did criticise him for that quote, though it was only for a short time.
Also what is a hyperbole
Yeah, I admit I criticized him for it, because it sounded like a calculated shot to me. As an avid social media user MP is surely aware of the mixed response to TA, and singling out that album in particular seemed like an attempt to get the TA dislikers to go "see, MP would never have allowed this piece of crap to happen!!!11" and give him the "DT is nothing without you!" ego boost. Just saying "fair enough, I wouldn't want to learn Mangini's parts either" would've been more tactful IMO, although the comparison is still apples and oranges, because Derek was fired while MP left of his own volition.
On the other hand, I didn't take the "drummers who play paradiddles at 240 BPM are boring" comment as an insult towards MM, because there are hundreds of uber-technical drummers on Youtube and in the prog/extreme metal circles, and a lot of them were probably influenced by DT and Portnoy, but he doesn't feel he belongs to that category himself or can't relate to that style of playing. Goes to show everything can be interpreted in multiple ways. :lol
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Raw Dog is awesome, and I never understood the hate it got.
I agree, I always enjoyed Raw Dog.
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Bertie, I'm so sorry to hear that. Cancer absolutely sucks.
I echo this sentiment. :(
There's a lot to comment on here but lets just start with this: Why don't YOU change the channel? You apparently dislike DTF so much yet you keep coming back. You throw around these bizarre accusations about how much we hate Portnoy so fucking much that he could cure cancer and we would complain. BTW, that's a pretty tasteless accusation as I'm sure many posters here have been affected by cancer in some way or another and would love to see cancer cured, even if it comes from that evil Portnoy who we just love to hate even though every poster here has said positive things about him at one point or another. Some in this very thread. So if we hate him so much and are so ready to pounce, why do the vast majority of posters here reserve their criticism for when he acts tactlessly? Admittedly, he does so quite often so it may seem like a lot but hey, you could change the channel.
Perhaps those critical of Portnoy should start acting as hysterical as some of his supporters.
"Portnoy could film himself slaughtering puppies and you would still defend him!" Sounds pretty absurd, eh? I guess you can't handle that we call it like we see it. When he acts in a weird way, well, we call it like we see it. And no, I don't follow Mike just to bash him. In fact, I don't follow him at all. I follow Charlie and saw his bizarre comment.
But as for your original point, believe it or not, I wouldn't necessarily require physical proof to believe you. I've remained very open minded through this whole ordeal. Laugh if you want, but why would I praise these Shattered Fortress performances if I hate everything that the cancer curing Portnoy has ever done? Seems like you just want to dangle a line. "Look how much I know!"
Well, we know you know a lot of insider info.
For what it's worth, I also appreciate your work with DT and no difference of opinion is going to jade my view of that or Mike's contributions for that matter.
Great post. :tup :tup
First, as far as you go Stadler, you are clearly not being rational. I didn't refer to some cancer survivor. I merely said everyone here has been touched by cancer in some way (knowing someone personally or having it themselves), and Bob's little analogy was just ridiculous. You didn't touch the fact that all of us here have praised Mike at some point or another and then slam us and claim you and Bob are more open minded because you passively said his social media actions are sometimes not preferable. Give me a break.
I don't think there is another poster on this board that manipulates words as much as you do. I mostly just ignored your wordy diatribes and bizarre irrational arguments but I for whatever reason decided to reengage. You decided you would down with the ship at any costs and you find yourself on the ocean floor. I think it's back to turning the channel on you.
Agreed.
I hope they don't end this thread, it was bad enough when the MP forum banned all mention of DT after Mike left. Perhaps another thread so people that are interested in The Shattered Fortress tour don't have to sift though all the other stuff. Call it the WTF was Mike thinking?? Thread
For the record, neither do I. The Shattered Fortress and its developments should be discussed here. I just find the whole psycho analyzing of MP, and his intentions, to be unproductive, in a sense that this has all been said.
And then someone like Bob, who can actually add something to the thread, gets called out.. I guess I can "change the channel"..
Junior mod alert!!!!!! :biggrin: :biggrin:
For the record, I think Bob is a good example of someone who is, by everything I have seen, a great dude (heck, he once hooked me up with a free live DVD years ago, which makes him aces in my book) but one who seems like a different person when it comes to discussing Mike Portnoy. It's weird how one musician can make his most hardcore fans go off the reservation defending him (a phenomenon which is definitely not exclusive to Bob).
About the FII songs, MP said in an interview that he would reserved those songs for when he tour with Derek..
Portnoy is online enough to know that Burning My Soul and Just Let Me Breathe are not popular DT songs in general. Heck, they are two of the least popular songs from FII. It is hard to imagine his new band playing two of the least popular DT songs as the only DT selections.
Now, imagine if they played Raise the Knife.... That would give fans a collective boner.
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For the record, I think Bob is a good example of someone who is, by everything I have seen, a great dude (heck, he once hooked me up with a free live DVD years ago, which makes him aces in my book) but one who seems like a different person when it comes to discussing Mike Portnoy. It's weird how one musician can make his most hardcore fans go off the reservation defending him (a phenomenon which is definitely not exclusive to Bob).
But when there's a bunch of Internet Dudes constantly busting MP's balls, it's tiring to read. I'm sure someone like Bob, who actually knows MP, must be like..WTF?
Me, it's not so much defending MP, but why the hell is everyone else attacking him? Everything is so fucking negative.
Sure, we get the "the show was awesome" comment, but it's sprinkled in with the "MP shouldn't do this", or MP regrets that"...etc..
I guess it's a discussion forum and all. I get it.
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I can recognize when me friend is out of line. Why can't bob?
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I think it's unrealistic to think that Bob is going to pile on MP on DTF.
It's easy for us to do. We never have to back up our words.
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I doubt anyone expects Bob, or anyone else close to/friendly with him like Scotty or Stadler (:P), to pile on.
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I'm not saying bob should pile on, but instead of saying shit like, "Mike could cure cancer and people would still complain", he could recognize that some of the things Mike is saying might be a tad shitty.
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I'm not saying bob should pile on, but instead of saying shit like, "Mike could cure cancer and people would still complain", he could recognize that some of the things Mike is saying might be a tad shitty.
Well he has admitted that but in the absolute most passive and non-specific way. "I wouldn't have posted that." Thus reserving his biggest criticism for people with legitimate gripes that constructively articulate their opinions. Then they try to say, "See how open minded I am? One time I criticized Mike."
If that is the litmus test then clearly I am more open minded and unbiased as I continue to praise many things MP has done and have spent not only thousands of dollars on DT including official bootlegs and whatnot, but also hundreds of dollars from his personal online store.
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How is it relevant how much money you have spent on DT or MP stuff? That has absolutely nothing to do with open-mindedness whatsoever.
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How is it relevant how much money you have spent on DT or MP stuff? That has absolutely nothing to do with open-mindedness whatsoever.
Uh, because if I was close minded I would probably rest on my laurels and not continue to support or enjoy any output of that person.
I would have thought that was obvious. :facepalm:
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(https://media.giphy.com/media/119SFXjoMsax6o/giphy.gif)
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How is it relevant how much money you have spent on DT or MP stuff? That has absolutely nothing to do with open-mindedness whatsoever.
Uh, because if I was close minded I would probably rest on my laurels and not continue to support or enjoy any output of that person.
I would have thought that was obvious. :facepalm:
Agreed. And I didn't take your comment as "I buy his music, so I have the right to criticize him all day and every day."
Shoot, I haven't been a fan of Portnoy the man for a decade and a half, yet he might be on more CDs I own than other musician. Doing some quick math in my head, counting CDs I have bought the physical media or digitally, and not counting live albums, he accounts for 11 Dream Theater (10 studio albums and the ACOS EP), 4 Transatlantic, 2 Flying Colors, 2 LTE and 9 Neal Morse/NMB. That comes out to 28 (and you could say 29 since I originally bought the first OSI CD, although I no longer own the physical CD). 32 if you count the four doubles (6DOIT, both Testimony albums and Similitude).
Steven Wilson actually surpasses him with 33, and Devin Townsend is fast catching him, too (24 or 25 right now, I think).
And actually, Neal Morse is right there as well with 27, and Roine Stolt has 30.
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Seen a couple of full concert videos on YouTube with pretty good audio. Has anyone seen any descent bootlegs posted anywhere? Even if its flac can always convert
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Seen a couple of full concert videos on YouTube with pretty good audio. Has anyone seen any descent bootlegs posted anywhere? Even if its flac can always convert
Malmo
https://www.dimeadozen.org/torrents-details.php?id=595656
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How is it relevant how much money you have spent on DT or MP stuff? That has absolutely nothing to do with open-mindedness whatsoever.
Uh, because if I was close minded I would probably rest on my laurels and not continue to support or enjoy any output of that person.
I would have thought that was obvious. :facepalm:
Agreed. And I didn't take your comment as "I buy his music, so I have the right to criticize him all day and every day."
Shoot, I haven't been a fan of Portnoy the man for a decade and a half, yet he might be on more CDs I own than other musician. Doing some quick math in my head, counting CDs I have bought the physical media or digitally, and not counting live albums, he accounts for 11 Dream Theater (10 studio albums and the ACOS EP), 4 Transatlantic, 2 Flying Colors, 2 LTE and 9 Neal Morse/NMB. That comes out to 28 (and you could say 29 since I originally bought the first OSI CD, although I no longer own the physical CD). 32 if you count the four doubles (6DOIT, both Testimony albums and Similitude).
Steven Wilson actually surpasses him with 33, and Devin Townsend is fast catching him, too (24 or 25 right now, I think).
And actually, Neal Morse is right there as well with 27, and Roine Stolt has 30.
Without counting, I think I have close to 50. All of the ytsejam bootlegs, all of the studio and live albums, all of his tribute band albums, then when you figure in all of the DT DVDs and a few of the MP DVDs, then tribute albums likes Working Man and a few others...plus the John Arch album (which I honestly think has his best drum work...I was blown away by it and this was after the bitterness of the split that I first heard it), and a few others beyond that. None of the Transatlantic, Flying Colors, or Winery Dogs as I just can't get into those.
Seen a couple of full concert videos on YouTube with pretty good audio. Has anyone seen any descent bootlegs posted anywhere? Even if its flac can always convert
That's one of the bummers about technology these days. It's so easy to record, I don't feel like there are as many quality bootlegs anymore. I would love to hear some myself.
I don't understand technology very well so I still rely on CDs :-[
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...plus the John Arch album
That's a forgotten gem for sure.
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Seen a couple of full concert videos on YouTube with pretty good audio. Has anyone seen any descent bootlegs posted anywhere? Even if its flac can always convert
Malmo
https://www.dimeadozen.org/torrents-details.php?id=595656
Cheers Dude downloading it now!
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I'll check it out when I can sign up for dime again. I've long lost my login info.
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About the FII songs, MP said in an interview that he would reserved those songs for when he tour with Derek..
Portnoy is online enough to know that Burning My Soul and Just Let Me Breathe are not popular DT songs in general. Heck, they are two of the least popular songs from FII. It is hard to imagine his new band playing two of the least popular DT songs as the only DT selections.
Now, imagine if they played Raise the Knife.... That would give fans a collective boner.
True.. And you forgot New Millennium, which is not so popular either.. But yeah, RtN would be great, totally!..
Also, I don't think Burning My Soul would be precisely a terrible choice; in fact, DT themselves played it for the 30th anniversary tour..
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About the FII songs, MP said in an interview that he would reserved those songs for when he tour with Derek..
Portnoy is online enough to know that Burning My Soul and Just Let Me Breathe are not popular DT songs in general. Heck, they are two of the least popular songs from FII. It is hard to imagine his new band playing two of the least popular DT songs as the only DT selections.
Now, imagine if they played Raise the Knife.... That would give fans a collective boner.
True.. And you forgot New Millennium, which is not so popular either.. But yeah, RtN would be great, totally!..
Also, I don't think Burning My Soul would be precisely a terrible choice; in fact, DT themselves played it for the 30th anniversary tour..
BMS is one of my favorite songs on FII. Actually, listening BMS - HK - LITS back to back is amazing :metal
Also, I really like Raw Dog, and never understood why:
1) Lots of people dislike/hate it
2) It has never been played live
Back to the topic, these MPSF shows are great, but I just want this tourto finish already, so Haken can start working on their 5th album, and MP can focus on his new, hopefully good, prog metal supergroup.
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Back to the topic, these MPSF shows are great, but I just want this tourto finish already, so Haken can start working on their 5th album, and MP can focus on his new, hopefully good, prog metal supergroup.
Oh but they have to come to Argentina first.. ;D
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Back to the topic, these MPSF shows are great, but I just want this tourto finish already, so Haken can start working on their 5th album, and MP can focus on his new, hopefully good, prog metal supergroup.
Oh but they have to come to Argentina first.. ;D
You, Argentinian fans, are always very lucky, all the cool bands always visit you and completely ignore us. Nunca vienen a Perú :'(
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Back to the topic, these MPSF shows are great, but I just want this tourto finish already, so Haken can start working on their 5th album, and MP can focus on his new, hopefully good, prog metal supergroup.
Oh but they have to come to Argentina first.. ;D
You, Argentinian fans, are always very lucky, all the cool bands always visit you and completely ignore us. Nunca vienen a Perú :'(
I can't say we're not lucky, having a dvd recorded in our lands too, but I guess for most bands coming to South America means only visiting Chile, Argentina and Brazil.. Very unfair.. Although I've heard that DT played once in your country, or I misheard that?..
(FWIW, I'm still waiting for two of my favorite bands right now/one of the coolest bands right now IMO :smiley: -Haken and Leprous- to come here.. NE on me! :angel:)
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I'll check it out when I can sign up for dime again. I've long lost my login info.
well i've downloaded the torrent but not gotten much further than that.....constantly bittorrent contently searching for peers to start the download.... >:( >:(
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Are their seeders? Do you usually have issues with your torrents?
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There are 33 seeders for the show.
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I've never met Mike Portnoy. I know people who know him, but I have not met the man.
Samsara, there's a lot of respect here, and this isn't directed necessarily at you, so please consider that when you read this, but I'm at a loss. Most of the people here are in your camp - not having ever met the guy (a selfie after the show is not "meeting the guy" in this sense) - and yet are saying things that they cannot know. Not just "what he puts out there" but ascribing those things to mental states and emotions and psychological rationalizations, even though there are people here who DO know him, who have sat and broke bread with him, and who have shared discussions about these topics say otherwise.
Look, I've been around enough to know that the stock, pat answer is "he's a public figure" (implying that anything goes and things like respect and decency and human kindness are irrelevant) but how would some of you feel if you had dime-store psychologists taking every word YOU say in the worst possible light in order to bolster their own prejudices or thought processes? And ignoring not only the underlying context, but also things that people close to you - who would know - are saying?
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First, as far as you go Stadler, you are clearly not being rational. I didn't refer to some cancer survivor. I merely said everyone here has been touched by cancer in some way (knowing someone personally or having it themselves), and Bob's little analogy was just ridiculous. You didn't touch the fact that all of us here have praised Mike at some point or another and then slam us and claim you and Bob are more open minded because you passively said his social media actions are sometimes not preferable. Give me a break.
I don't think there is another poster on this board that manipulates words as much as you do. I mostly just ignored your wordy diatribes and bizarre irrational arguments but I for whatever reason decided to reengage. You decided you would down with the ship at any costs and you find yourself on the ocean floor. I think it's back to turning the channel on you.
If you want to keep it on topic, I'll talk with you all day long. If you want to make it personal - I'm not "rational"? I'm a "manipulator"? My posts are "diatribes"? - I'll pass thanks. I'm not at all interested in a "contest". I know what's right, decent and respectful. And if that puts me on the "ocean floor", well that says more about the rest of the discussion, not me.
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For the record, this thread bugs the hell out of me, but the subject matter an obvious point of discussion here.
Thanks Nick. It's appreciated.
Not directing this at Nick..
It's just, what is the point? What are we actually discussing?
Apparently my character, posting style and posting motivations. :P
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I can recognize when me friend is out of line. Why can't bob?
The difference is, you're not Mike's friend, so your assessment that he's "out of line" isn't relevant. Bob IS the friend; presumably when one of Mike's OTHER friends comes out and says "Mike's out of line!" then your analogy would be accurate.
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I'm not saying bob should pile on, but instead of saying shit like, "Mike could cure cancer and people would still complain", he could recognize that some of the things Mike is saying might be a tad shitty.
Except all of us sticking up for him have already done that, multiple times. I know I have. What we haven't done (and I can't speak for anyone else here) is agree with what someone else said is "EVERY. SINGLE. TIME", or the cheap, dime-store psychological assessments about what Mike feels, his emotions, etc.
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About the FII songs, MP said in an interview that he would reserved those songs for when he tour with Derek..
Portnoy is online enough to know that Burning My Soul and Just Let Me Breathe are not popular DT songs in general. Heck, they are two of the least popular songs from FII. It is hard to imagine his new band playing two of the least popular DT songs as the only DT selections.
Now, imagine if they played Raise the Knife.... That would give fans a collective boner.
True.. And you forgot New Millennium, which is not so popular either.. But yeah, RtN would be great, totally!..
Also, I don't think Burning My Soul would be precisely a terrible choice; in fact, DT themselves played it for the 30th anniversary tour..
Wasn't New Millenium played a lot though, as part of a mashup with Caught In A Web?
I listened to FII over the weekend while laying down some flooring in my house and I was surprised at how good it was. I still detest Doug Pinnick's "singing" on Lines In The Sand, but I forgot how good the rest of the song was, and I forgot how much I liked "Hell's Kitchen" (I'm not a huge fan of "Burning My Soul", so it gets lumped in there, wrongly).
I always shortchanged that album, coming as it did after the epochal Images and Words and strong Awake, but it's pretty good. I still think I'd rather go for one of the others, but still. If that's what they play in the new outfit, I'd be okay with that. I'd like to hear "Anna Lee". What're the chances (besides slim to none)?
I don't think I've heard "Raw Dog" more than a handful of times. That might be next to go back to.
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I've never met Mike Portnoy. I know people who know him, but I have not met the man.
Samsara, there's a lot of respect here, and this isn't directed necessarily at you, so please consider that when you read this, but I'm at a loss. Most of the people here are in your camp - not having ever met the guy (a selfie after the show is not "meeting the guy" in this sense) - and yet are saying things that they cannot know. Not just "what he puts out there" but ascribing those things to mental states and emotions and psychological rationalizations, even though there are people here who DO know him, who have sat and broke bread with him, and who have shared discussions about these topics say otherwise.
Look, I've been around enough to know that the stock, pat answer is "he's a public figure" (implying that anything goes and things like respect and decency and human kindness are irrelevant) but how would some of you feel if you had dime-store psychologists taking every word YOU say in the worst possible light in order to bolster their own prejudices or thought processes? And ignoring not only the underlying context, but also things that people close to you - who would know - are saying?
If you weren't talking specifically at me, then don't quote my words. Just paraphrase and leave me out of it.
I think this whole thread is completely derailed, mostly because you can't let stuff go, Stadler. You're (for lack of a better word) trolling people and keep poking the hornets nest. The bottom line is, message boards are meant for speculation. Just because YOU don't like THE WAY people are speculating about MP, doesn't meant they don't have the right to do it.
If it bothers you so much, instead of coming back again and again and derailing the conversation, I suggest just moving on from it if you don't feel your message is being understood properly. Or, if it means that much to you, PM the people. Because all I know is, if I was looking for information on Shattered Fortress and what they'd be up to, this thread wouldn't be of much use because of (no disrespect intended) what you've (and others that are doing the same) have done to it.
Just (as Mosh said...lol) let it go........ :lol
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Do people generally not like "New Millennium?" I really dig the song, and would be surprised if it is disliked. I think it would be killer if Shattered Fortress played it. And Raise the Knife -- not as many people know that one, but man that would be cool. I forget (too lazy to check the seltist) if I saw it in 1998 at the holiday show at Irving Plaza...
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I have never been a fan of New Millennium, one of my least favorite DT songs.
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Me neither although I had a recent connection with it while watching Budokan that lead me to enjoy it a lot more than I ever had before, but it still ranks very low in DT songs for me.
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Interesting. I just thought it was so different sounding, and a really fresh new sound for DT that it appealed to me personally. The only time I think I've seen it is when DT opened for Deep Purple at Jones Beach (Aug. 9, 1998, if memory serves). I don't think they played it when I saw them at the holiday show (I forget) or on the ToT tour (which is what Budokan was culled from, right?). My ToT show was San Francisco, and I don't remember it being played.
I dunno, I guess I want to see Shattered Fortress play as much DT stuff that DT itself doesn't play much these days.
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For me, I appreciate that it does try new things, but it comes off as jarring and subpar in my opinion. I have long said the one change that would have greatly improved FII would be swapping NM with Raise the Knife. Would get things off to a much better start.
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For me, I appreciate that it does try new things, but it comes off as jarring and subpar in my opinion. I have long said the one change that would have greatly improved FII would be swapping NM with Raise the Knife. Would get things off to a much better start.
Yeah, I can see that. I do prefer RTK over NM.
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Over the last couple years I've really started to like NM more.
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Why aren't MP and Labrie in good terms? What happened? Source?
Only speculation, but Mike has talked shit about James over the years, and I'd assume James doesn't like that too much. He may have even been the main person keeping Mike from doing collaborations, which in turn would cause Mike's dislike.
I know I'm the one that usually ignores all the facts out there - :P - but let's not forget: "I'm glad he's gone", "We finally feel free", "I can now be the frontman instead of sharing the stage" (yeah, you stepped it up, bud; 51 minutes behind the amp line playing Candy Crush instead of the former 53 minutes); "What he did wasn't really that hard or special"; "We as a band will each take a little piece of what Mike did and we'll do it; you won't notice a thing!" (still waiting on that Ytsejam batch, and the rotating setlists, James!).
Well, probably out of all DT members, James is the one that didn't hide behind a PR politeness as good as the others, but I understand his frustation at the comments from Mike about not chosing him again if given the chance... can you imagine in reverse the same statements? James saying "Well, Mike's great and all but right now we're all laid back dude so if given the chance we'd pick a less flamboyant drummer"?
That's like Steve Harris saying "Well, we picked Blaze Bayley because he's british, if Doogie White wasn't american he would have been a better choice", or Judas Priest saying "We picked Ripper because he's a clone, if we could find someone else now we'd go for a singer with a different style"... that's something you just don't say about a bandmate.
I don't mean to put you on the spot (and for all I know, you agree with me, so I'm arguing with myself) but if you can accommodate James' frustration, and understand why HE lashed out, why are we not willing to do that with Mike himself? You either go all in on "face value/no context" or all in on "the whole story matters". One doesn't get a pass and the other does.
Maybe because James didn't "lash out." There is nothing inappropriate about what James said.
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Love New Millennium, one of the better tracks on FII for me. I really like the King Crimson styled rhythmic stuff.
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If you weren't talking specifically at me, then don't quote my words. Just paraphrase and leave me out of it.
I think this whole thread is completely derailed, mostly because you can't let stuff go, Stadler. You're (for lack of a better word) trolling people and keep poking the hornets nest. The bottom line is, message boards are meant for speculation. Just because YOU don't like THE WAY people are speculating about MP, doesn't meant they don't have the right to do it.
If it bothers you so much, instead of coming back again and again and derailing the conversation, I suggest just moving on from it if you don't feel your message is being understood properly. Or, if it means that much to you, PM the people. Because all I know is, if I was looking for information on Shattered Fortress and what they'd be up to, this thread wouldn't be of much use because of (no disrespect intended) what you've (and others that are doing the same) have done to it.
Just (as Mosh said...lol) let it go........ :lol
It'd be a lot easier to "let go" if a) people didn't continue to feel the need to tell ME to 'let it go" while mis-stating what I've been saying, and b) didn't continue to use personal comments about posters here to somehow justify their opinions. I was out of it twice now, and both times came back when someone felt obligated to name me personally and say once figuratively and once literally how "irrational" my position is. Fine if you don't agree, but no need to add the commentary.
Ironic, too, since my beef is with the incessant commentary about Mike. Say you disagree with his post. Hell, say you don't like the guy. Fair game. But leave the grade-school, dime-store psychobabble about someone you've never met out of it.
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For me, I appreciate that it does try new things, but it comes off as jarring and subpar in my opinion. I have long said the one change that would have greatly improved FII would be swapping NM with Raise the Knife. Would get things off to a much better start.
Do you like the "FII Director's Cut"? I prefer that version to the released version by a long shot, and I actually LIKE "New Millenium".
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Ironic, too, since my beef is with the incessant commentary about Mike. Say you disagree with his post. Hell, say you don't like the guy. Fair game. But leave the grade-school, dime-store psychobabble about someone you've never met out of it.
Who are you to determine what is "grade-school, dime-store psychobabble?" The point is, you're no more correct on things in this thread than anyone else.
Also, again, since you didn't address it -- don't quote my words to prove a point to other people unless you're talking directly to me. Paraphrase and leave me out of it. Thanks man.
Moving on now...
Love New Millennium, one of the better tracks on FII for me. I really like the King Crimson styled rhythmic stuff.
You know, I really didn't get that at first, Mosh, as I wasn't familiar with King Crimson back then. But now, I totally hear it. To me, NM is a total Dream Theater song. Liked it the moment I heard it. Quirky and different (at that point) for them, but distinctly DT. If I recall correctly, I don't think JLB likes the song. I could be wrong about that, however...
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NM is not a good song, and thus a terrible album opener. Those initial keyboard notes are as close to nails on a chalkboard DT got until whatever the hell Jordan was doing on A Rite of Passage.
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I like NM a lot and it has a very unique style on DT catalogue (and I like all the keybords sounds on it), maybe, I've read somewhere, despite the album credits, NM was mostly composed by MP, DS and JM. But the interesting thing about this song is that I've never heard a live version that really works, always seeming something is off or lacking live.
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I like NM a lot and it has a very unique style on DT catalogue (and I like all the keybords sounds on it), maybe, I've read somewhere, despite the album credits, NM was mostly composed by MP, DS and JM. But the interesting thing about this song is that I've never heard a live version that really works, always seeming something is off or lacking live.
Do you like it when it gets mashed into something else? I think it's "Caught in a New Millenium" on Live Scenes. I dig that. I love the background vocals on that version a LOT.
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I like NM a lot and it has a very unique style on DT catalogue (and I like all the keybords sounds on it), maybe, I've read somewhere, despite the album credits, NM was mostly composed by MP, DS and JM. But the interesting thing about this song is that I've never heard a live version that really works, always seeming something is off or lacking live.
NM was played in Live at Budokan in case you are interested in hearing it live ;)
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I like NM a lot and it has a very unique style on DT catalogue (and I like all the keybords sounds on it), maybe, I've read somewhere, despite the album credits, NM was mostly composed by MP, DS and JM. But the interesting thing about this song is that I've never heard a live version that really works, always seeming something is off or lacking live.
I like it as well. Interesting that you haven't really liked the live versions of it. I liked both the Caught In a New Millenium version on LSFNY and the straightforward version on L@B.
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I'm a truly DT maniac and I've have/heard all the versions released, included the ones on official bootlegs. And the only one that I really like (and A LOT) is the album version. Even the demo version I think is a bit... missing something ;D ;D ;D
I know, I know, it's a bit strange.
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New Millennium is probably my least favorite DT song. I hope to never have to sit through it live.
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NM to me is a very boring song. Honestly, I guess I don't dislike it other than I think it is one of their more basic songs. The melodies I sometimes find run through my head and I get very annoyed by it because I don't think they are anything special.
FII is a weird album. Some of my favorite songs are on that album and a few of my absolute least favorite are too. JLMB is a song I cannot stand. LITS is another one. NM as I stated I can tolerate but don't really care for.
Then again, I love Burning My Soul (the album version much more than the demo). I also love Anna Lee, Peruvian Skies, Hollow Years, Trial of Tears, Take Away My Pain (again, the album version more much than the demo/live Kenny G version) and even You Not Me.
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NM and Lines In The Sand are actually the only two FII songs I dislike. The rest ranges from okay to amazing. I really should relisten to the album, haven't heard it in two years minimum.
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I didn't know there were so many Lines In The Sand haters out there.
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I didn't know there were so many Lines In The Sand haters out there.
I know it sounds mean, but Doug Pinnick's wailings ruin it for me. I don't mind the intro or the first part of the song, but the vocals... ack.
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Those backing vocals are horrible, and the intro goes on way, way too long.
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I love LitS, easily the best song on FII for me.
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I love LitS, easily the best song on FII for me.
Easily. A Top 10 DT track for me. Yeah Pinnick blows on it, but I can pretty much get past it.
New Millennium is not good. It was disappointing on first listen and really let me know that FII would be a sub par album.
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You people are crazy.
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Pinnick's vocals never bothered me. LitS is only behind Trial of Tears from FII for me.
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Pinnick is one of the best things about the song, which is one of the best things about the album.
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I liked New Millennium when FII was first out, even though it was a pretty underwhelming Track 1, but as time has gone on, I find that I never listen to it anymore. DT just has too many other songs that are much better, and I just can never find the time to dedicate 8+ minutes to a pretty average tune (same goes for On the Backs of Angels).
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Pinnick is one of the best things about the song, which is one of the best things about the album.
I disagree however I do thinknif pinnick wasn't there the chorus wouldn't be as strong if that makes sense.
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Pinnick is one of the best things about the song, which is one of the best things about the album.
I disagree however I do thinknif pinnick wasn't there the chorus wouldn't be as strong if that makes sense.
Agreed. The chorus needed that second lead voice, to do the counterpoint, and nobody else in the band has the voice to pull it off convincingly like Pinnick did.
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The chorus didn't need that second lead voice. And if for some reason it did, that just means it was poorly written. Write to your strengths.
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The chorus didn't need that second lead voice. And if for some reason it did, that just means it was poorly written. Write to your strengths.
I can't argue with the first part, opinions and all. But why would a chorus with a 2nd lead voice be poorly written by definition?
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I totally disagree, Cool Chris. You go where the writing takes you, and if that is out of your comfort zone, so be it. Staying in your box or your safe space, is what vanilla bands do.
What's next, Take the Time was poorly written cause it needed JLB's voice overdubbed a ton to make the chorus soar? :P
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If the writing takes you to the point where you feel you need someone outside your band to perform the part, you took a wrong turn somewhere. Hence i called it poorly written. Maybe not the best phrase. But there is a difference between getting out of your comfort zone to be creative, and straying too far from who you are as an artist.
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If the writing takes you to the point where you feel you need someone outside your band to perform the part, you took a wrong turn somewhere. Hence i called it poorly written. Maybe not the best phrase. But there is a difference between getting out of your comfort zone to be creative, and straying too far from who you are as an artist.
With all due respect, that seems like a very bizarre opinion. ;)
Is Octavarium poorly written because they needed people outside the band to perform the orchestra parts?
Is The Spirit Carries On poorly written because they needed a singer who wasn't a member of the band to perform the female vocals?
Is Another Day poorly written because they needed Jay Beckenstein to play the soprano sax?
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If the writing takes you to the point where you feel you need someone outside your band to perform the part, you took a wrong turn somewhere. Hence i called it poorly written. Maybe not the best phrase. But there is a difference between getting out of your comfort zone to be creative, and straying too far from who you are as an artist.
With all due respect, that seems like a very bizarre opinion. ;)
Is Octavarium poorly written because they needed people outside the band to perform the orchestra parts?
Is The Spirit Carries On poorly written because they needed a singer who wasn't a member of the band to perform the female vocals?
Is Another Day poorly written because they needed Jay Beckenstein to play the soprano sax?
Yes.
Honestly, I never understood the purity mentality. The band is exactly the band members, and having a guest spot is a horrible idea. Never got it. Tons and tons of bands do guest spots. It's cool. Changes things up.
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I know I carry the mantle alone on this one, but I stand by my opinion.
*feels like I need to be saved from getting my arse kicked by news of another MP tweet....
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So, when the great composers wrote music they couldn't possibly perform by themselves, was their music poorly written? Beethoven wrote music for orchestras and chose to add or subtract instruments to parts he deemed important, depending on the sound he wanted to create in his music. It was not usual for a symphony to feature a choir - in fact, before Beethoven did this in his 9th Symphony, there was no other major composer who had ever done that before. His ninth is now a canonical work in Western classical music.
When Richard Wagner invented a new instrument, because he wanted to have a sound that did not exist at that point, was his music poorly written then?
How about some more recent examples? Surely Arjen Lucassen's music with Ayreon isn't poorly written, only because he uses tons of different vocalists and instrumentalists on his albums. How about Transatlantic touring with Daniel Gildenlöw? Ihsahn singing on various Leprous songs? Metallica performing live with an orchestra? With regards to Dream Theater's music in general; the majority of Dream Theater's music is actually impossible to replicate with just 5 band members. Think about layered vocals, multiple guitar tracks et cetera.
'Poorly written' and 'needs guest musicians' do not go hand in hand at all. Music is far more than just the sum of a band. Experimentation can lead to unexpected results, and thinking outside of the box can lead to amazing stuff.
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Just leaving my 2 cents by saying i really like NM, and LITS is amazing. :heart
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The chorus didn't need that second lead voice. And if for some reason it did, that just means it was poorly written. Write to your strengths.
Agreed with the first part; and James has such a versatile voice, that he is able to double himself in two registers to make a really cool, unique sound (he did it elsewhere on that album, and to great effect on "This Is The Life" from 12).
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I know I carry the mantle alone on this one, but I stand by my opinion.
*feels like I need to be saved from getting my arse kicked by news of another MP tweet....
Sorry, boss, I'm not going to help you on that one. :)
I agreed with the first part, but I reread your second part, and even I have to respectfully disagree. I like when they change it up. I just don't like that screamy, evangelical vocal. It should surprise no one that I dislike Janis Joplin for the same reasons, and a lot of the earlier, "funkier" Glenn Hughes vocals from Deep Purple. I like long, legato vocal lines (like James, Elton John, Phil Collins and Sting are so good at). I don't like that melismatic type singing that Doug did there (and that you see all over American Idol or any other TV when someone says "Oh, you can sing? Give me a little" and you see this horrible mega-gymnastic wailing that is 9 miles from actual singing, in my opinion).
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Just leaving my 2 cents by saying i really like NM, and LITS is amazing. :heart
I really like the FII Demos more
CD 1
Raise The Knife.
Where Are You Now?
Take Away My Pain
You Or Me
Anna Lee
Burning My Soul
The Way It Used To Be
Lines In The Sand
CD 2
Just Let Me Breathe
Peruvian Skies
Trial Of Tears
Cover My Eyes
Hollow Years
New Millennium
Speak To Me
Bonus track
Metropolis Pt. 2
Live and raw rehearsal version
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^^^ I said above, I prefer that over the final version by a long shot.
"Cover My Eyes" is one of my favorite DT songs ever.
We haven't mentioned it yet, but that's a fairly unique record from a Petrucci stand point. I don't know the terminology (I should, since I play guitar, but...) but he uses that harmonic sort of riff technique a fair amount and I like it.
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Is Another Day poorly written because they needed Jay Beckenstein to play the soprano sax?
hey, wasn't he in Spyro Gyra?
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ig_f6-KQF2w&feature=youtu.be
part 2 of this series, another great interview and lives clips
Part 3 to be released soon entitled "Mike on his current relationship to Dream Theater" - I have a feeling a lot of people in this thread will wanna watch that interview haha
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ig_f6-KQF2w&feature=youtu.be
part 2 of this series, another great interview and lives clips
Part 3 to be released soon entitled "Mike on his current relationship to Dream Theater" - I have a feeling a lot of people in this thread will wanna watch that interview haha
These interviews have been great. Really liked this one.
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Both parts of the interview so far have been great. Thanks for posting those.
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"Cover My Eyes" is one of my favorite DT songs ever.
We haven't mentioned it yet, but that's a fairly unique record from a Petrucci stand point. I don't know the terminology (I should, since I play guitar, but...) but he uses that harmonic sort of riff technique a fair amount and I like it.
Agreed on both.
Can't wait for the part 3 on DT...
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I didn't know there were so many Lines In The Sand haters out there.
Top 5 DT song for me. Genuinely wish they had more in that direction.
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I didn't know there were so many Lines In The Sand haters out there.
Top 5 DT song for me. Genuinely wish they had more in that direction.
Definitely top ten for me. I have a lot of love for FII.
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I didn't know there were so many Lines In The Sand haters out there.
Top 5 DT song for me. Genuinely wish they had more in that direction.
I gotta say, I miss that bluesy rock sound DT used to pull out somewhat-frequently during that time period.
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I think the new MP DS prog metal band should definitely cover NM. It's got a signature MP groove and signature DS key sounds.
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Great interview! I still think it would have been no problem if both bands played ACOS.
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Great interview! I still think it would have been no problem if both bands played ACOS.
For sure. I am sure both Yes's overlap songs.
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I didn't know there were so many Lines In The Sand haters out there.
Top 5 DT song for me. Genuinely wish they had more in that direction.
I gotta say, I miss that bluesy rock sound DT used to pull out somewhat-frequently during that time period.
Me too.
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I didn't know there were so many Lines In The Sand haters out there.
Top 5 DT song for me. Genuinely wish they had more in that direction.
I gotta say, I miss that bluesy rock sound DT used to pull out somewhat-frequently during that time period.
Me too.
Me three. A lot people seem to point to DS as to why they had a little more "blues rock" thing going on on FII, and I'm sure that had some to do with it but JP was also into playing that kind of stuff at that point. There are some cool older videos of him in this era on YouTube at clinics and stuff of that nature and his playing had a lot of bluesy elements in it. It would seem that starting with SFAM, that started to show up less and less. Not a bad thing, just an observation.
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I didn't know there were so many Lines In The Sand haters out there.
Top 5 DT song for me. Genuinely wish they had more in that direction.
I gotta say, I miss that bluesy rock sound DT used to pull out somewhat-frequently during that time period.
Me too.
Me three. A lot people seem to point to DS as to why they had a little more "blues rock" thing going on on FII, and I'm sure that had some to do with it but JP was also into playing that kind of stuff at that point. There are some cool older videos of him in this era on YouTube at clinics and stuff of that nature and his playing had a lot of bluesy elements in it. It would seem that starting with SFAM, that started to show up less and less. Not a bad thing, just an observation.
Totally, though I think it started a bit later. And you're right that it has a ton to do with not only Derek's presence but Petrucci's personal preferences. Additionally, JP's distorted tone has just seemed to have gotten heaver and heavier through the years. Which is fine for a lot of applications but he did used to have a simpler, more...pure? overdriven sound that I miss.
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I think the tone Petrucci had on Awake is the heaviest he's had.
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Agreed on all the comments about JP's bluesier tone and style in that era. Loved it. That really gave his playing a lot of feel, and to me, that has been missing.
From a heavy standpoint, I'd have to agree the tone on Awake for sure was the crunchiest and heaviest I can recall. And I love it. But that slight bluesy touch he had...and I don't know how to describe it, but that lighter, more atmospheric playing he had from I&W-FII, is sorely missed by me. I'm not a guitarist, so I don't know how to describe it properly, but it's just this tonal thing I hear in his playing back then that is not there any longer. And I don't know why. It was a key element of why I enjoyed DT as much as I did back then.
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I think the tone Petrucci had on Awake is the heaviest he's had.
Heaviest probably, but I think TOT has his best sounding distorted tones.
Cleans were definitely best in the I&W/Awake/FII era.
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There are 33 seeders for the show.
Strange must just be me.. BitTorrent never seems to find any to start the download... never usually happens
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Check your port settings on your router, you may not have the ports open to connect to peers.
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I think the tone Petrucci had on Awake is the heaviest he's had.
I think he multi-tracked a lot on that album to make it sound thicker and heavier. It worked.
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I think the tone Petrucci had on Awake is the heaviest he's had.
I think he multi-tracked a lot on that album to make it sound thicker and heavier. It worked.
I don't think quad-tracking is that much of a difference compared to dual-tracking L and R guitars. Atleast to my ears.
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It is though
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I think the tone Petrucci had on Awake is the heaviest he's had.
I think he multi-tracked a lot on that album to make it sound thicker and heavier. It worked.
I don't think quad-tracking is that much of a difference compared to dual-tracking L and R guitars. Atleast to my ears.
Huge difference.
He's also doing a ton of layering on just about every album. So that's a normal thing.
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I think the tone Petrucci had on Awake is the heaviest he's had.
I think he multi-tracked a lot on that album to make it sound thicker and heavier. It worked.
I don't think quad-tracking is that much of a difference compared to dual-tracking L and R guitars. Atleast to my ears.
Huge difference.
He's also doing a ton of layering on just about every album. So that's a normal thing.
It definitely makes a big difference, but that said, I'm pretty sure JP's on record saying Awake was the only album he did quad tracking of the heavy rhythms.
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I'm pretty sure that's the case as well. It was the case up to and including BC&SL.
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So much uproar about such a small difference! I admit I didn't notice the difference until now and I don't care. I love the band and the logo (both versions), it's stolen anyway :laugh:
https://i0.wp.com/dreamtheater.club/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/4938868763_9001645c5c_b.jpg
https://i0.wp.com/dreamtheater.club/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/sun-embroidery.jpg
Exactly.... but don't write that on Charlie's FB auction page 😉
EXACTLY!!
write it on Kevin Moore's
On a side not image if Kevin Moore did this. When people bashed Rudess on Twitter for being too flashy and bring back Moore, if retweeted all of those.
There would still be certain people that scream, "YOU DON'T KNOW THE FULL STORY!!!" or "HE HAS THE RIGHT TO HIS OPINION!!!1!one!!"
I could tell you the full story, but you wouldn't believe me as you need official proof. And we all know that is never going to happen.
I am not advocating his style of social media, but he has always done straight honest answers back to the beginning of DT.
It seems that there is a large contingent just waiting to pounce the second a tweet, FB post or interview to comment on how he's an uncaring unthinking douche playing the victim. I know, it's the DTF way. What happened to the day when if you didn't like a TV show you changed the channel, now a days you get on social media and scream until nobody can watch it.
Portnoy could come up with a cure for cancer and there will be plenty of people to bash him because his tweet didn't acknowledge is former assistant.
As most of you know, I did a lot of work for DT and now MP. I don't really care one way or the other what he posts on social media. I'm all for constructive commentary and discussion. But he is who he is. All this stuff is not new, and whether he has put DT in the past or not shouldn't matter, it's his business. Every disagreeable tweet, the reaction is like you(all) have never seen it before, as a matter a fact I think people follow his feeds just to bash him. Is it that much fun to be so negative? Just change the channel.
Words to live by.
But I never changed the channel on social media. Never turned it on in the first place.
That said. I have to come here to find out what Dream theater and Portnoy are up to.
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Love New Millennium, one of the better tracks on FII for me. I really like the King Crimson styled rhythmic stuff.
Was going to say that myself. Now I don't have to say it.
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If the writing takes you to the point where you feel you need someone outside your band to perform the part, you took a wrong turn somewhere. Hence i called it poorly written. Maybe not the best phrase. But there is a difference between getting out of your comfort zone to be creative, and straying too far from who you are as an artist.
Wish there was more Pinnick.
Is this the time to bring up Desmond Child?
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Is time to bring up Desmond, child
(https://media.giphy.com/media/eA87ka02BEufm/giphy.gif)
See ya in Another World, my brotha!..
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You Not Me > You or Me
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I think the tone Petrucci had on Awake is the heaviest he's had.
I think he multi-tracked a lot on that album to make it sound thicker and heavier. It worked.
I don't think quad-tracking is that much of a difference compared to dual-tracking L and R guitars. Atleast to my ears.
Huge difference.
He's also doing a ton of layering on just about every album. So that's a normal thing.
It definitely makes a big difference, but that said, I'm pretty sure JP's on record saying Awake was the only album he did quad tracking of the heavy rhythms.
I've always put the heaviness down to the 7 string. And I didn't like it for a long time
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So much uproar about such a small difference! I admit I didn't notice the difference until now and I don't care. I love the band and the logo (both versions), it's stolen anyway :laugh:
https://i0.wp.com/dreamtheater.club/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/4938868763_9001645c5c_b.jpg
https://i0.wp.com/dreamtheater.club/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/sun-embroidery.jpg
Exactly.... but don't write that on Charlie's FB auction page 😉
EXACTLY!!
write it on Kevin Moore's
On a side not image if Kevin Moore did this. When people bashed Rudess on Twitter for being too flashy and bring back Moore, if retweeted all of those.
There would still be certain people that scream, "YOU DON'T KNOW THE FULL STORY!!!" or "HE HAS THE RIGHT TO HIS OPINION!!!1!one!!"
I could tell you the full story, but you wouldn't believe me as you need official proof. And we all know that is never going to happen.
I am not advocating his style of social media, but he has always done straight honest answers back to the beginning of DT.
It seems that there is a large contingent just waiting to pounce the second a tweet, FB post or interview to comment on how he's an uncaring unthinking douche playing the victim. I know, it's the DTF way. What happened to the day when if you didn't like a TV show you changed the channel, now a days you get on social media and scream until nobody can watch it.
Portnoy could come up with a cure for cancer and there will be plenty of people to bash him because his tweet didn't acknowledge is former assistant.
As most of you know, I did a lot of work for DT and now MP. I don't really care one way or the other what he posts on social media. I'm all for constructive commentary and discussion. But he is who he is. All this stuff is not new, and whether he has put DT in the past or not shouldn't matter, it's his business. Every disagreeable tweet, the reaction is like you(all) have never seen it before, as a matter a fact I think people follow his feeds just to bash him. Is it that much fun to be so negative? Just change the channel.
Words to live by.
That's all well and good. But people here are not unfairly "bashing" him. If something he posts or says makes him come across as a prick, that's on him, and it is fair game for discussion. If something he posts or says is positive, that is likewise fair game for discussion about how great it is. Nobody here is unfairly piling on for the sake of piling on--they are commenting on what he himself has said and done. If his posts and public comments themselves weren't so frequently negative, you wouldn't see the negative reactions to them here.
And it's great that some know "the full story." But, honestly, if you aren't willing to back up what you say with specifics, you don't really have a right to tell other people they don't know what they're talking about. If you can't share what you know, or just don't think it is appropriate, or just don't want to, that's fine. But, again, if you can't or won't provide facts, don't tell other people what to think.
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bill1971 retweeted
That's all well and good. But people here are not unfairly "bashing" him. If something he posts or says makes him come across as a prick, that's on him, and it is fair game for discussion. If something he posts or says is positive, that is likewise fair game for discussion about how great it is. Nobody here is unfairly piling on for the sake of piling on--they are commenting on what he himself has said and done. If his posts and public comments themselves weren't so frequently negative, you wouldn't see the negative reactions to them here.
And it's great that some know "the full story." But, honestly, if you aren't willing to back up what you say with specifics, you don't really have a right to tell other people they don't know what they're talking about. If you can't share what you know, or just don't think it is appropriate, or just don't want to, that's fine. But, again, if you can't or won't provide facts, don't tell other people what to think.
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One thing I learned the hard way in my time close to a particular band, and running a forum, is if you can't or won't post the full story on something, it's best not to say anything at all. Even if you mean well, by trying to stir excitement for something, unless you're willing to explain it all, it's better to not post a word.
Obviously, there's a lot of drama between the MP and DT. I think most people are smart enough to know there is fault on both sides, no matter who says what.
As for MP's tweets and social media postings, I feel after all this time, he should have a bit more restraint than he does. I think it would serve him better to be a bit more guarded. But he's a grown man, who's had a very successful career. I'm not one to tell him what to do. I can only say what I feel *I* would do in his position.
In regard to responding here -- I've been a member here forever. MP isn't bashed. MP is being criticized for being very loose with his words. And most of that criticism is meant (in my opinion) as constructive, with people wanting MP to do well, and carry himself better - -because we care about him being successful and appreciate the music he's helped create.
If MP has an issue with DTF, perhaps he needs to read the above paragraph I've just written.
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bill1971 retweeted
That's all well and good. But people here are not unfairly "bashing" him. If something he posts or says makes him come across as a prick, that's on him, and it is fair game for discussion. If something he posts or says is positive, that is likewise fair game for discussion about how great it is. Nobody here is unfairly piling on for the sake of piling on--they are commenting on what he himself has said and done. If his posts and public comments themselves weren't so frequently negative, you wouldn't see the negative reactions to them here.
And it's great that some know "the full story." But, honestly, if you aren't willing to back up what you say with specifics, you don't really have a right to tell other people they don't know what they're talking about. If you can't share what you know, or just don't think it is appropriate, or just don't want to, that's fine. But, again, if you can't or won't provide facts, don't tell other people what to think.
:lol :clap:
In regard to responding here -- I've been a member here forever. MP isn't bashed. MP is being criticized for being very loose with his words. And most of that criticism is meant (in my opinion) as constructive, with people wanting MP to do well, and carry himself better - -because we care about him being successful and appreciate the music he's helped create.
Nailed it.
If MP has an issue with DTF, perhaps he needs to read the above paragraph I've just written.
He has been told that very thing several times in the past, including hearing it from me face to face and via email. For whatever reason, it never seems to register.
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In regard to responding here -- I've been a member here forever. MP isn't bashed. MP is being criticized for being very loose with his words. And most of that criticism is meant (in my opinion) as constructive, with people wanting MP to do well, and carry himself better - -because we care about him being successful and appreciate the music he's helped create.
Nailed it.
As someone who has posted negative criticism, this is exactly how I feel. Also, how I feel pretty much all of DTF acts.
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MP isn't bashed.
Couldn't disagree with that any more than I do. Maybe not by EVERYONE, but there are a certain number of people here that if he gave them a medium coffee from Dunkin Donuts, milk no sugar, their first response would be "why medium, you cheap fuck? And I like Starbucks, with sugar next time".
Look in the other thread; Derek retweets something that is subject to some opinion as to whether it was "negative" or not (I think not, but it's up for discussion) and not three posts down someone says "Well, it's to be expected; he's been hanging out with MP and so it's logical that he would pick up Mike's bad habits." What kind of nonsense is that?
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MP isn't bashed.
Couldn't disagree with that any more than I do. Maybe not by EVERYONE, but there are a certain number of people here that if he gave them a medium coffee from Dunkin Donuts, milk no sugar, their first response would be "why medium, you cheap fuck? And I like Starbucks, with sugar next time".
Look in the other thread; Derek retweets something that is subject to some opinion as to whether it was "negative" or not (I think not, but it's up for discussion) and not three posts down someone says "Well, it's to be expected; he's been hanging out with MP and so it's logical that he would pick up Mike's bad habits." What kind of nonsense is that?
Maybe some people would react like that, but the way I see this forum is that if someone out-and-out told MP to go F himself and insulted him, that person would be warned, and eventually banned. The mods and bosk1 ensure that. Just because someone may (if there were no restraints) say that to MP, doesn't mean it is actually permitted here. It's not (to my knowledge).
Let's just be clear -- there are some people who sadly will always be on an MP witch hunt. But forum rules exist to not allow that sort of senseless BS. Granted, there's a fine line between criticism and bashing, and there are comments that straddle the line. But how do you know those people who cross it aren't warned and ultimately, stop? Last I checked, only the person warned and the mods/admin can see that history.
MP also has VERY thin skin. Any comment of criticism seems to always piss him off, even if it is meant in a constructive way because someone cares.
It's very messy. But if MP believes this forum bashes him, or if anyone else does, I think that's a very shallow view of this place, which is a mistake. It's structured so that pointless bashing isn't permitted, whereas criticism is. That's a distinction MP, and some of his apologists (not saying you, Stadler) should keep in mind.
It's also not an easy job walking that fine line as a mod/admin. You don't want to crack down too hard on people, but you also want to make sure the ideals of the forum are upheld. It's a lot harder than people think (trust me on that one), and most of the time, the admin/mods get shit on no matter what they do.
MP's statements tend to bring criticism. But if he wants a truly honest look at how what he says resonates, he need not look anywhere else but here. He just needs to thicken up his skin a bit, because it isn't going to be all flowers and rainbows all the time.
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MP isn't bashed.
Couldn't disagree with that any more than I do.
Then perhaps your expectations of how members of this forum should interact is not in line with how this site is run, and this might not be the place for you. If your view of what is allowed and what actually occurs on this site is that skewed and biased, I don't know what to tell you. Samsara's take is dead-on.
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And most of that criticism is meant (in my opinion) as constructive, with people wanting MP to do well, and carry himself better - -because we care about him being successful and appreciate the music he's helped create.
Samsara, I 100% agree.
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He has been told that very thing several times in the past, including hearing it from me face to face and via email. For whatever reason, it never seems to register.
How was that conversation? I never heard this before. Was he cool about it?
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He has been told that very thing several times in the past, including hearing it from me face to face and via email. For whatever reason, it never seems to register.
How was that conversation? I never heard this before. Was he cool about it?
It started off VERY negatively, with him making all sorts of accusations about the forum in general. [So much so that Neal Morse, who was sitting next to him but didn't hear the conversation, and only picked up on the fact that Mike was upset and speaking in an upset tone of voice, turned to me and kind of came after me a bit as well] I was taken aback, but didn't take it too personally because this was back in early 2010 or so, and this iteration of the Dream Theater forums with me running things was still fairly new. I knew that a lot of his perceptions about the forums was second-hand, and was based on information about the how people acted on the old Dream Theater forum and on what had become 5/8, which has much different and much more loose rules about posting criticism. I explained a lot of that and his tone changed somewhat and became much less icy. But I still left feeling like he didn't really get it or care to get it, and had his mind made up. And his subsequent demeanor toward the forums has soured me on that initial interaction. Admittedly, because of that, my memory of the conversation may be somewhat tainted by the subsequent negativity. But I don't think I am too far off.
Scotty was also present for that conversation and may have a different take or may remember details I have forgotten.
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He has been told that very thing several times in the past, including hearing it from me face to face and via email. For whatever reason, it never seems to register.
How was that conversation? I never heard this before. Was he cool about it?
It started off VERY negatively, with him making all sorts of accusations about the forum in general. [So much so that Neal Morse, who was sitting next to him but didn't hear the conversation, and only picked up on the fact that Mike was upset and speaking in an upset tone of voice, turned to me and kind of came after me a bit as well] I was taken aback, but didn't take it too personally because this was back in early 2010 or so, and this iteration of the Dream Theater forums with me running things was still fairly new. I knew that a lot of his perceptions about the forums was second-hand, and was based on information about the how people acted on the old Dream Theater forum and on what had become 5/8, which has much different and much more loose rules about posting criticism. I explained a lot of that and his tone changed somewhat and became much less icy. But I still left feeling like he didn't really get it or care to get it, and had his mind made up. And his subsequent demeanor toward the forums has soured me on that initial interaction. Admittedly, because of that, my memory of the conversation may be somewhat tainted by the subsequent negativity. But I don't think I am too far off.
Scotty was also present for that conversation and may have a different take or may remember details I have forgotten.
Interesting, thank you. Did he know who you were or did you approach him? I guess what I am asking is how did the conversation come up?
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MP isn't bashed.
Couldn't disagree with that any more than I do.
Then perhaps your expectations of how members of this forum should interact is not in line with how this site is run, and this might not be the place for you. If your view of what is allowed and what actually occurs on this site is that skewed and biased, I don't know what to tell you. Samsara's take is dead-on.
Maybe we're using "bashed" in a different way. Bosk, I like it here - I like you, for what I know of you - and unless asked to leave, I'm going nowhere. Perhaps it's my definition, because I agree with a lot of what Samsara wrote in his followup, and I really mean "hypercritical"? I don't think the criticism goes overboard in the sense of being banable ("bannable"?) but I do think that at this point he doesn't garner too much benefit of the doubt from some people. They may feel justified in that, and that's on them.
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Criticism: I think Stadler is an excellent artist, but he lacks certain techniques that are keeping him from excelling. With more practice he could be amazing.
Bashing: Your drawings SUUUUUUUUUJUUUUUUUUUCCCCKKKK!
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MP isn't bashed.
Couldn't disagree with that any more than I do. Maybe not by EVERYONE, but there are a certain number of people here that if he gave them a medium coffee from Dunkin Donuts, milk no sugar, their first response would be "why medium, you cheap fuck? And I like Starbucks, with sugar next time".
Always with the extreme, imaginary scenarios. :lol :lol :lol
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MP isn't bashed.
Couldn't disagree with that any more than I do. Maybe not by EVERYONE, but there are a certain number of people here that if he gave them a medium coffee from Dunkin Donuts, milk no sugar, their first response would be "why medium, you cheap fuck? And I like Starbucks, with sugar next time".
Always with the extreme, imaginary scenarios. :lol :lol :lol
Yeah. There are exactly zero people who would say that.
bill1971 retweeted
That's all well and good. But people here are not unfairly "bashing" him. If something he posts or says makes him come across as a prick, that's on him, and it is fair game for discussion. If something he posts or says is positive, that is likewise fair game for discussion about how great it is. Nobody here is unfairly piling on for the sake of piling on--they are commenting on what he himself has said and done. If his posts and public comments themselves weren't so frequently negative, you wouldn't see the negative reactions to them here.
And it's great that some know "the full story." But, honestly, if you aren't willing to back up what you say with specifics, you don't really have a right to tell other people they don't know what they're talking about. If you can't share what you know, or just don't think it is appropriate, or just don't want to, that's fine. But, again, if you can't or won't provide facts, don't tell other people what to think.
Your opinion of the tweet is unclear. To speculate that you agree with it would just be starting drama.
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bill1971 retweeted
That's all well and good. But people here are not unfairly "bashing" him. If something he posts or says makes him come across as a prick, that's on him, and it is fair game for discussion. If something he posts or says is positive, that is likewise fair game for discussion about how great it is. Nobody here is unfairly piling on for the sake of piling on--they are commenting on what he himself has said and done. If his posts and public comments themselves weren't so frequently negative, you wouldn't see the negative reactions to them here.
And it's great that some know "the full story." But, honestly, if you aren't willing to back up what you say with specifics, you don't really have a right to tell other people they don't know what they're talking about. If you can't share what you know, or just don't think it is appropriate, or just don't want to, that's fine. But, again, if you can't or won't provide facts, don't tell other people what to think.
Your opinion of the tweet is unclear. To speculate that you agree with it would just be starting drama.
[/quote]
Drama? In this thread? No way
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Gah...I forgot the sarcastic green font!
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MP isn't bashed.
Couldn't disagree with that any more than I do. Maybe not by EVERYONE, but there are a certain number of people here that if he gave them a medium coffee from Dunkin Donuts, milk no sugar, their first response would be "why medium, you cheap fuck? And I like Starbucks, with sugar next time".
Always with the extreme, imaginary scenarios. :lol :lol :lol
Well, there is SOME hyperbole, but only to (try to) keep it light and interesting (especially given where this went last time). I'm just expressing my opinion that some - not all, but some - could give more of the benefit of the doubt to Mike. That they don't is purely up to them, and they don't have to do a single thing I say, but while I agree that in a literal sense "zero people would say that", Mike didn't write "Never Enough" for no reason at all.
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MP isn't bashed.
Couldn't disagree with that any more than I do. Maybe not by EVERYONE, but there are a certain number of people here that if he gave them a medium coffee from Dunkin Donuts, milk no sugar, their first response would be "why medium, you cheap fuck? And I like Starbucks, with sugar next time".
Always with the extreme, imaginary scenarios. :lol :lol :lol
Yeah. There are exactly zero people who would say that.
bill1971 retweeted
That's all well and good. But people here are not unfairly "bashing" him. If something he posts or says makes him come across as a prick, that's on him, and it is fair game for discussion. If something he posts or says is positive, that is likewise fair game for discussion about how great it is. Nobody here is unfairly piling on for the sake of piling on--they are commenting on what he himself has said and done. If his posts and public comments themselves weren't so frequently negative, you wouldn't see the negative reactions to them here.
And it's great that some know "the full story." But, honestly, if you aren't willing to back up what you say with specifics, you don't really have a right to tell other people they don't know what they're talking about. If you can't share what you know, or just don't think it is appropriate, or just don't want to, that's fine. But, again, if you can't or won't provide facts, don't tell other people what to think.
Your opinion of the tweet is unclear. To speculate that you agree with it would just be starting drama.
Good point. I would like everyone to guess which parts I agree with and omit the rest. :)
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MP isn't bashed.
Couldn't disagree with that any more than I do. Maybe not by EVERYONE, but there are a certain number of people here that if he gave them a medium coffee from Dunkin Donuts, milk no sugar, their first response would be "why medium, you cheap fuck? And I like Starbucks, with sugar next time".
Always with the extreme, imaginary scenarios. :lol :lol :lol
Well, there is SOME hyperbole, but only to (try to) keep it light and interesting (especially given where this went last time). I'm just expressing my opinion that some - not all, but some - could give more of the benefit of the doubt to Mike. That they don't is purely up to them, and they don't have to do a single thing I say, but while I agree that in a literal sense "zero people would say that", Mike didn't write "Never Enough" for no reason at all.
What?!? He didn't write it for himself?!?
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MP isn't bashed.
Couldn't disagree with that any more than I do. Maybe not by EVERYONE, but there are a certain number of people here that if he gave them a medium coffee from Dunkin Donuts, milk no sugar, their first response would be "why medium, you cheap fuck? And I like Starbucks, with sugar next time".
Always with the extreme, imaginary scenarios. :lol :lol :lol
Well, there is SOME hyperbole, but only to (try to) keep it light and interesting (especially given where this went last time). I'm just expressing my opinion that some - not all, but some - could give more of the benefit of the doubt to Mike. That they don't is purely up to them, and they don't have to do a single thing I say, but while I agree that in a literal sense "zero people would say that", Mike didn't write "Never Enough" for no reason at all.
What?!? He didn't write it for himself?!?
I like that song, it's my favorite Muse song.
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MP isn't bashed.
Couldn't disagree with that any more than I do. Maybe not by EVERYONE, but there are a certain number of people here that if he gave them a medium coffee from Dunkin Donuts, milk no sugar, their first response would be "why medium, you cheap fuck? And I like Starbucks, with sugar next time".
Always with the extreme, imaginary scenarios. :lol :lol :lol
Well, there is SOME hyperbole, but only to (try to) keep it light and interesting (especially given where this went last time). I'm just expressing my opinion that some - not all, but some - could give more of the benefit of the doubt to Mike. That they don't is purely up to them, and they don't have to do a single thing I say, but while I agree that in a literal sense "zero people would say that", Mike didn't write "Never Enough" for no reason at all.
What?!? He didn't write it for himself?!?
I like that song, it's my favorite Muse song.
:rollin
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Part 3 is up https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wLxqNFXKQtI (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wLxqNFXKQtI)
and there's already a blabbermouth article...https://www.blabbermouth.net/news/mike-portnoy-i-have-no-longing-to-reunite-with-dream-theater/ (https://www.blabbermouth.net/news/mike-portnoy-i-have-no-longing-to-reunite-with-dream-theater/)
Asked in a new interview with Rockhok how sure he is that he will never get on stage with DREAM THEATER again, Portnoy said (see video below): "Well, I normally dodge these questions, but I'll answer it. The ball's in their court, to be honest. I have no longing to reunite with them; it's not something I necessarily am looking to do or want to do. I'm very content with all the eighty-seven bands I currently have going, so it's something I need. But I would do it for the fans, because I'm a very sentimental person and I have a lot of great, fond memories of those guys and the times. I'm a sentimental guy, so I would never close the door on it. So, really, the ball's in their court, honestly. [But] if you're asking me the odds [of a reunion happening], I would say, don't bet on it, because I know their personalities as well and I don't think they're the type that are looking backwards. Although they're out there playing [the 1992 DREAM THEATER album] 'Images And Words' [in its entirety on tour], but that's their choice."
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Part 3 is up https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wLxqNFXKQtI (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wLxqNFXKQtI)
and there's already a blabbermouth article...https://www.blabbermouth.net/news/mike-portnoy-i-have-no-longing-to-reunite-with-dream-theater/ (https://www.blabbermouth.net/news/mike-portnoy-i-have-no-longing-to-reunite-with-dream-theater/)
Asked in a new interview with Rockhok how sure he is that he will never get on stage with DREAM THEATER again, Portnoy said (see video below): "Well, I normally dodge these questions, but I'll answer it. The ball's in their court, to be honest. I have no longing to reunite with them; it's not something I necessarily am looking to do or want to do. I'm very content with all the eighty-seven bands I currently have going, so it's something I need. But I would do it for the fans, because I'm a very sentimental person and I have a lot of great, fond memories of those guys and the times. I'm a sentimental guy, so I would never close the door on it. So, really, the ball's in their court, honestly. [But] if you're asking me the odds [of a reunion happening], I would say, don't bet on it, because I know their personalities as well and I don't think they're the type that are looking backwards. Although they're out there playing [the 1992 DREAM THEATER album] 'Images And Words' [in its entirety on tour], but that's their choice."
FOR THE FANS :rollin
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Just finished watching the video, really enjoyed the series. I think reading that blabbermouth article gave me a different impression than actually watching the interview (as is usually the case, especially with blabbermouth).
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Part 3 is up https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wLxqNFXKQtI (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wLxqNFXKQtI)
and there's already a blabbermouth article...https://www.blabbermouth.net/news/mike-portnoy-i-have-no-longing-to-reunite-with-dream-theater/ (https://www.blabbermouth.net/news/mike-portnoy-i-have-no-longing-to-reunite-with-dream-theater/)
Asked in a new interview with Rockhok how sure he is that he will never get on stage with DREAM THEATER again, Portnoy said (see video below): "Well, I normally dodge these questions, but I'll answer it. The ball's in their court, to be honest. I have no longing to reunite with them; it's not something I necessarily am looking to do or want to do. I'm very content with all the eighty-seven bands I currently have going, so it's something I need. But I would do it for the fans, because I'm a very sentimental person and I have a lot of great, fond memories of those guys and the times. I'm a sentimental guy, so I would never close the door on it. So, really, the ball's in their court, honestly. [But] if you're asking me the odds [of a reunion happening], I would say, don't bet on it, because I know their personalities as well and I don't think they're the type that are looking backwards. Although they're out there playing [the 1992 DREAM THEATER album] 'Images And Words' [in its entirety on tour], but that's their choice."
FOR THE FANS :rollin
Yeah, I agree with the for the fans. That gets old, but other than that there was no real drama I thought. He said if they called, he would do it. Although I don't know why he equates playing older material with wanting ex members back in the band though.
Also I don't know why he would need to forgive them. He left the band.
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He probably still needs to forgive that they did not go with his idea of a hiatus of indetermined time.... even when he said he would settle for a five year hiatus they told him no.
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https://youtu.be/kj_8E3FOU4s?t=6s
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Also I don't know why he would need to forgive them. He left the band.
https://youtu.be/kj_8E3FOU4s?t=6s
Indeed.
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But mayby in his eyes he was forced to leave the band as they did not budge and allow a hiatus instead...
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Part 3 is up https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wLxqNFXKQtI (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wLxqNFXKQtI)
and there's already a blabbermouth article...https://www.blabbermouth.net/news/mike-portnoy-i-have-no-longing-to-reunite-with-dream-theater/ (https://www.blabbermouth.net/news/mike-portnoy-i-have-no-longing-to-reunite-with-dream-theater/)
Asked in a new interview with Rockhok how sure he is that he will never get on stage with DREAM THEATER again, Portnoy said (see video below): "Well, I normally dodge these questions, but I'll answer it. The ball's in their court, to be honest. I have no longing to reunite with them; it's not something I necessarily am looking to do or want to do. I'm very content with all the eighty-seven bands I currently have going, so it's something I need. But I would do it for the fans, because I'm a very sentimental person and I have a lot of great, fond memories of those guys and the times. I'm a sentimental guy, so I would never close the door on it. So, really, the ball's in their court, honestly. [But] if you're asking me the odds [of a reunion happening], I would say, don't bet on it, because I know their personalities as well and I don't think they're the type that are looking backwards. Although they're out there playing [the 1992 DREAM THEATER album] 'Images And Words' [in its entirety on tour], but that's their choice."
FOR THE FANS :rollin
Yeah, I agree with the for the fans. That gets old, but other than that there was no real drama I thought. He said if they called, he would do it. Although I don't know why he equates playing older material with wanting ex members back in the band though.
Also I don't know why he would need to forgive them. He left the band.
Maybe I'm missing something, but where is "forgiveness" even mentioned? ???
EDIT: Never mind. I didn't read the article and was going off of what was quoted. I see it now. Yeah, I mean, as far as what you said, there really isn't anything to "forgive" on its face. But I don't really hold that comment against him because: (1) he may subjectively feel that that he was "wronged" by the band not hearing him out and understanding his need for a hiatus, or (2) something that may have happened or may have been said behind the scenes that we know nothing about, or (3) the band not responding to him when he was attempting to communicate with them after the break during the time they were going through all the legal stuff, or (4) something we just know nothing about. But in any case, not a big deal that he said that, IMO.
I do somewhat take umbrage with his repeated "the ball is in their court." Not that there's anything wrong with that on its face. But it somewhat implies that the band should make the call, and it is again sort of passively deflecting and saying "it's them, not me. I'd do it for you guys, the fans, but they aren't making it happen." Even if that isn't what he means, again, it's on him to measure his words and their impact before he utters them. But again, in the grand scheme of things, not a huge deal.
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In the video he talks about forgiving..... although not clearly about forgiving DT. He talks about how he would be open to meet up with any of the bands he has played in and mentions Transatlantic and O.S.I
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He doesn't hold grudges, but he hates at least one Canadian.
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About the interview, I was avoiding to listen some Shattered Fortress performance, because hopefully I'll be at São Paulo show, but... well, I'm really impressed from what I heard/saw on the footage's interview, specially the vocal departament, VERY good job! Ross is very close of James tone, amazing!
I like a lot the part where MP talked about Derek to "reclaim back the progressive metal throne!". That's the spirit, guys! I'm sure they will loose this fight (DT team :coolio), but I'm also pretty sure that they'll make a great album in this crusade! :tup :tup :tup
Just a question, that I guess nobody has never asked or the band never adressed about: why Kevin Moore haven't any writting credit on ACoS and neither Derek on any part of SFaM?
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To me the most interesting tidbit from that interview was that he would consider reuniting with O.S.I. I was rather under the impression that, given his past comments about his experience with them, he would never be open to playing with Kevin Moore again.
...anyone see what I did there? ::)
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To me the most interesting tidbit from that interview was that he would consider reuniting with O.S.I. I was rather under the impression that, given his past comments about his experience with them, he would never be open to playing with Kevin Moore again.
...anyone see what I did there? ::)
gtfo
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To me the most interesting tidbit from that interview was that he would consider reuniting with O.S.I. I was rather under the impression that, given his past comments about his experience with them, he would never be open to playing with Kevin Moore again.
...anyone see what I did there? ::)
The ball is in Kevin Moore's court.
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Just a question, that I guess nobody has never asked or the band never adressed about: why Kevin Moore haven't any writting credit on ACoS and neither Derek on any part of SFaM?
Writing credits are a funny thing. Based on my general knowledge of how things often go in bands, I am going to make a couple of educated guesses that it was one or a combination of the following:
(1) Even though Kev played on the initial demo/live versions of ACOS and Derek played on the initial demo version of the SFAM instrumental, it could be that neither of them contributed substantially to the writing of either of those. Or, based on how writing credit is done internally within the band, even if they did contribute somewhat, it might not have been enough for the band to consider giving them writing credit for it.
(2) Sometimes, even if some initial ideas are from a certain band member and they subsequently leave the band before the song is finished, they might not get credit. Depends on the band. I'm not aware of DT doing that, but I can't rule it out.
(3) It might be that they waived credit in their agreements when they left the band.
But, ultimately, we don't know.
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The moment we've been waiting for.... part 3
https://youtu.be/wLxqNFXKQtI
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Just a question, that I guess nobody has never asked or the band never adressed about: why Kevin Moore haven't any writting credit on ACoS and neither Derek on any part of SFaM?
Writing credits are a funny thing. Based on my general knowledge of how things often go in bands, I am going to make a couple of educating guesses that it was one or a combination of the following:
(1) Even though Kev played on the initial demo/live versions of ACOS and Derek played on the initial demo version of the SFAM instrumental, it could be that neither of them contributed substantially to the writing of either of those. Or, based on how writing credit is done internally within the band, even if they did contribute somewhat, it might not have been enough for the band to consider giving them writing credit for it.
(2) Sometimes, even if some initial ideas are from a certain band member and they subsequently leave the band before the song is finished, they might not get credit. Depends on the band. I'm not aware of DT doing that, but I can't rule it out.
(3) It might be that they waived credit in their agreements when they left the band.
But, ultimately, we don't know.
Cool, Bosk, thanks! IMO it's hard to imagine that they, as keyboardists, they hadn't some substancial inputs on those epic songs (what Metropolis II was at the time). They seem a truly collaborative instrumental effort by all the band.
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I remember Blaze Bayley complaining about not receiving writing credits for Blood Brothers, Dream of Mirrors and a third song off Brave New World.
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I wonder if Derek got bought out. Meaning, Hey, you're out of the band. Anything we may have jammed on belongs to us but here's a nice check.
Mike said in, I think, Lifting Shadows that they were worried he would sue. So he didn't. I wonder if Derek just said "ok best of luck" and anything he may have had a hand in coming up with he figured there was no point in making an issue about it.
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The Metropolis Part 2 jam was one of, what, six "songs" that didn't make it to FII, so I doubt Sherinian thought much of it would amount to anything, much less the genesis of what would become a huge record for them after his departure, so I doubt he had much thought to signing away co-writing rights to it.
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I remember Blaze Bayley complaining about not receiving writing credits for Blood Brothers, Dream of Mirrors and a third song off Brave New World.
Finding out that Blood Brothers was written during the time period of VXI suddenly makes SO MUCH SENSE.
SO MUCH SENSE
SO MUCH SENSE
SO MUCH SENSE
SO MUCH SENSE
SO MUCH SENSE
SO MUCH SENSE
SO MUCH SENSE
SO MUCH SENSE
SO MUCH SENSE
SO MUCH SENSE
SO MUCH SENSE
SO MUCH SENSE
SO MUCH SENSE
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To me the most interesting tidbit from that interview was that he would consider reuniting with O.S.I. I was rather under the impression that, given his past comments about his experience with them, he would never be open to playing with Kevin Moore again.
...anyone see what I did there? ::)
The ball is in Kevin NoMoore's court.
fixt
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I remember Blaze Bayley complaining about not receiving writing credits for Blood Brothers, Dream of Mirrors and a third song off Brave New World.
Finding out that Blood Brothers was written during the time period of VXI suddenly makes SO MUCH SENSE.
SO MUCH SENSE
SO MUCH SENSE
SO MUCH SENSE
SO MUCH SENSE
SO MUCH SENSE
SO MUCH SENSE
SO MUCH SENSE
SO MUCH SENSE
SO MUCH SENSE
SO MUCH SENSE
SO MUCH SENSE
SO MUCH SENSE
SO MUCH SENSE
:rollin well said!!!
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From live videos what I have seen Eric does really good job with this lineup. I could say he plays solos better than JP himself nowadays! He really is the right guy there!!
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The moment we've been waiting for.... part 3
https://youtu.be/wLxqNFXKQtI
As I expected doesn't reveal too much
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I wonder if Derek got bought out.
I can't remember where I might have heard anything to give me that impression, but I believe that this is the case for both Kevin and Derek.
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Anyone going tonight to the show in NY?
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Anyone going tonight to the show in NY?
I'll be there as well as Nick, cram, milllahhh, I think I heard el barto was going to be in town. Was thinking of heading here beforehand, it's about half a mile from the venue.
https://barcadestmarks.com/
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Anyone going tonight to the show in NY?
Oh, I'll be there alright! Should be the absolute best Dream Theater show in 8 years! :metal
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Anyone going tonight to the show in NY?
Oh, I'll be there alright! Should be the absolute best Dream Theater show in 8 years! :metal
Except that it's not Dream Theater playing, but keep up the good shtick! :lol :lol
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Call it a covershow if you want, it's still a fantastic show
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I thought it was a great show. Mike chose very well when he went with the Haken guys. It was like a cover show, and I certainly missed JLB, and missed JP at times, but it was like a cover show done right. They were totally prepared and of course the setlist was great and it was really cool to see.
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You know whats funny that I just thought about, Didn't MP say he didn't want to play ACoS because DT decided to do it and didn't want to have competition between the two?
Yet, here we are with someone in his own progressive metal band making it like a comptetition, "No cheese-wiz-botz" and the like.
If Shattered Fortress came closer this way, I would have went and saw it. But either way life happens and can't either way.
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Anyone going tonight to the show in NY?
I'll be there as well as Nick, cram, milllahhh, I think I heard el barto was going to be in town. Was thinking of heading here beforehand, it's about half a mile from the venue.
https://barcadestmarks.com/
Leaving with Nick shortly, probably will be at Barcade for around 4pm.
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Anyone here go to the Shattered Fortress show last night? How was it?
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Anyone here go to the Shattered Fortress show last night? How was it?
Nick, Axeman & Cram all did.
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Anyone here go to the Shattered Fortress show last night? How was it?
It was really awesome. I'll write up a review later today and will have video to share.
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I was there. Really fun show and I'm glad I went but about halfway through This Dying Soul I was just wishing they had played Scenes all the way through.
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I was there. Really fun show and I'm glad I went but about halfway through This Dying Soul I was just wishing they had played Scenes all the way through.
Well shit, you could have joined for the group picture!
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Great show last night! I was kinda hoping they might pull out a Falling Into Infinity song in celebration of the album's 20th anniversary, but I'm getting greedy. Also, Eric Gilette is not human!
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Great show last night! I was kinda hoping they might pull out a Falling Into Infinity song in celebration of the album's 20th anniversary, but I'm getting greedy. Also, Eric Gilette is not human!
I had hoped they would have too. I think Sons of Apollo will probably play a FII track in its set, however, at some point.
It's really a shame that Portnoy can't bring this all over the U.S. (I totally get why he can't). Besides you, Mike, I had a bunch of other friends there last night, and they all said it was amazing. That element DT has been missing...
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Simply INCREDIBLE performance last night! Not too mention the LOVE, ENERGY & PASSION that was in that room last night :hefdaddy THIS is what is missing from DT since MP left. Not their fault per se since MP was the passionate one in the band and the one who brought the excitement! I give major props to Haken who absolutely NAILED everything, while Eric Gillette is inhuman! :metal
A few times I would just look out through the crowd (from my great vantage point in the VIP deck) and see a sea of happy faces head banging, fist raising, singing loudly and loving every second of it!
I'd absolutely LOVE for MP and this band to tour again (maybe in 2/3 years) and deliver another completely different DT set list, because THIS is how DT music SHOULD be played LIVE!
Looking forward to the I&W show in November, but there's NO WAY it could possibly come close to matching the performance last night!
THANK YOU MP!!!!!!!!!! :hefdaddy :hefdaddy :hefdaddy
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I was there and it was awesome, as others have said. Loved the set (VERY Scenes heavy), and the band was incredible. Ross sounded great, Eric was perfect, the rest of the band never skipped a beat (except when they did... in Home, and MP had to recover - which he did quite nicely). My ONLY complaint was that with the setlist being what it was, the night FLEW by. Overture/Stange Deja Vu felt like one song... then Mirror... then 12Step... it was like it was over before it started. I was happy they did a 3-song encore, but even that went really quick.
Something I noticed on my way out (I hadn't looked at the setlist beforehand)... but the show was eerily similar the DT's 2014 tour. BTFW has Overture 1928, Strange Deja Vu, The Mirror, The Shattered Fortress, The Dance of Eternity, and Finally Free. I'm not complaining about it, and I get why those songs were played for both of those tours, but I just thought it was interesting, and not sure if anyone else had noticed it.
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As someone who has seen both the Shattered Fortress and the Images and Words show, I have to disagree. But I suppose it depends on what you are looking for, and any show is certainly a different experience with MP behind the kit. It really was great to see him doing that music again and starting it off with Scenes material made it really cool. I was glad to have seen that show. That having been said, it still wasn't DT and I'd prefer to have the DT guys doing their stuff. This was great as a one off thing.
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I was there. Really fun show and I'm glad I went but about halfway through This Dying Soul I was just wishing they had played Scenes all the way through.
Your air keyboard expression strip was on point though
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I was hoping to read that after the Scenes... songs MP presented the band and there appeared JP, JR, JLB and JM to perform the 12 steps with MP for one night only at NY
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That would be hard with DT being in Australia. :)
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Guys, try to keep the Shattered Fortress stuff here. I'm leaving the MP thread open, but as long as the discussion is about this here, or Sons of Apollo in that thread no reason to have a third MP thread going on.
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That would be hard with DT being in Australia. :)
Oh yes, I know, I was ony dreaming awaken
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Last night was the best concert I've ever been to, and that's saying a lot considering how many bands I have seen. It truly felt like an experience, and you can tell how much love went into this from all members. Eric Gillette is a monster, Ross Jennings was the perfect choice to sing Labrie's parts, and the rest of the Haken guys killed it to the point that I consider the next local Haken show a must see. And of course, Mike was a beast as usual. He is just so much fun to watch play. If this is how Dream Theater shows were with MP in the band, then I'm truly sorry that I never got to see them before he left. I can't stress enough how great this was.
Also, Next to None were great.
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Really awesome concert last night. The vibe in the building was great. Sold out and packed to the top. Loud energetic crowd. The sound was pretty good where I was. I had a VIP ticket so I got to watch from the balcony, which was packed, but after moving around, I finally found a spot with a decent view. Caught the last, and long, song from Next To None. They were better than I expected. It was pretty clear a lot of the Portnoy extended family was there to support as well, which was cool. No matter the twitter shit or whatever MP gets (and sometimes deserves) he really put together something special last night. It didn't feel like most concerts. I can't remember the last time a Dream Theater show was that energetic. Crowd chanting and singing along. As for the performance, it was much better than I expected. I love Haken and knew the guys had the chops, but it actually sounded like it could have been DT. There were a few parts that weren't pulled off as well as DT would have, but it felt fine to me. It felt live and raw, something DT hasn't felt in concert for awhile for me. Eric's guitar playing was superb. Ross's vocals were on spot, and dare I say, actually better than Labrie at this point. Not meant to knock on Labrie (I love him) but Ross really impressed me a few weeks ago with Haken and seeing him pull off DT and I am just floored with how good of a performer he really is. I guess I wasn't crazy about Eric's vocals, needed a bit more power behind his voice and when MP sang, I wasn't totally digging it, even if it made sense within the song (Repentance). It definitely seemed the SFAM songs were the big hits of the night. Really happy I came out for this concert. Huge DT fan and it felt like this concert hit on so many things missing in DT's live show.
Mike Portnoy's Shattered Fortress Live New York City (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8bwd95zKRm4) (got MP's entire speech in there)
One of my favorite moments, the guitar outro to This Dying Soul https://twitter.com/Cramx3/status/912387981952024578 (https://twitter.com/Cramx3/status/912387981952024578)
and some pics...
(https://scontent.fewr1-3.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/22041966_164632480782013_8525073901327008968_o.jpg?oh=2d1f4ef719a7e9e58de66725fe1c99d4&oe=5A84BBC8)
(https://scontent.fewr1-3.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/21768910_164632590782002_583988070437960361_o.jpg?oh=798e0971819fe1fc72491d5c12fe17ff&oe=5A40EFE4)
(https://scontent.fewr1-3.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/21768727_164632570782004_8975782751100110640_o.jpg?oh=372ba5e79554a482e9623c1f5bfbe689&oe=5A3E2143)
(https://scontent.fewr1-3.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/22042245_164632510782010_828123792978418443_o.jpg?oh=e26fa3a438183fef3abaaf9ccd1d387c&oe=5A54E6FB)
(https://scontent.fewr1-3.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/21993122_164632604115334_818153619225831590_o.jpg?oh=a24127050f487358269fe072a0208dd8&oe=5A877EC3)
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That's cool, Cram!
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Now we know the Perruccis were there.
(https://image.ibb.co/h8yLOk/22045735_957774894383483_1293571835345621284_n.jpg) (https://ibb.co/ntTy9Q)
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Would not shock me in the slightest if JP is there too. The guys were friends since they were what, 18?
The issue now in DT is -- they have a drummer they want to do right by, and JLB is more comfortable without MP. If one day MM leaves of his own accord, and MP and JLB can iron out their issues, MP will be back in DT. I wouldn't hold my breath, but stranger things have happened.
Glad that the Petrucci fam and the Portnoy fam are still friends.
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Would not shock me in the slightest if JP is there too.
I think JP is on tour with DT now, no? They were in Australia I thought.
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Would not shock me in the slightest if JP is there too. The guys were friends since they were what, 18?
The issue now in DT is -- they have a drummer they want to do right by, and JLB is more comfortable without MP. If one day MM leaves of his own accord, and MP and JLB can iron out their issues, MP will be back in DT. I wouldn't hold my breath, but stranger things have happened.
Glad that the Petrucci fam and the Portnoy fam are still friends.
If DT were to one day reunite with MP, and JLB stuck around, that'd be great. What concerns me with that scenario is that MP would try to pick up where he left off with BCSL, and I don't want that. No more "tough guy vocals". Also, he'd probably pull a Hagar/Roth and refuse to play the "other drummer's" songs.
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Now we know the Petruccis were there:
(https://image.ibb.co/h8yLOk/22045735_957774894383483_1293571835345621284_n.jpg) (https://ibb.co/ntTy9Q)
something something marriage analogy something
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Now we know the Petruccis were there:
(https://image.ibb.co/h8yLOk/22045735_957774894383483_1293571835345621284_n.jpg) (https://ibb.co/ntTy9Q)
something something marriage analogy something
Portnoy... Mormon?
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:rollin :rollin :rollin
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(https://image.ibb.co/h8yLOk/22045735_957774894383483_1293571835345621284_n.jpg) (https://ibb.co/ntTy9Q)
MP to JP:
“Hey John now that you’re away, look who came to visit us”
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Okay... I should know this, but who is who?
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Okay... I should know this, but who is who?
I believe from left to right: JP's daughter, JP's wife, MP's wife, MP's daughter.
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Okay... I should know this, but who is who?
The guy in the front is MP.
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Okay... I should know this, but who is who?
The guy in the front is MP.
THAT's what he looks like?
I always pictured a camel...
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Okay... I should know this, but who is who?
The guy in the front is MP.
THAT's what he looks like?
I always pictured a camel...
:rollin
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Would not shock me in the slightest if JP is there too. The guys were friends since they were what, 18?
The issue now in DT is -- they have a drummer they want to do right by, and JLB is more comfortable without MP. If one day MM leaves of his own accord, and MP and JLB can iron out their issues, MP will be back in DT. I wouldn't hold my breath, but stranger things have happened.
Glad that the Petrucci fam and the Portnoy fam are still friends.
If DT were to one day reunite with MP, and JLB stuck around, that'd be great. What concerns me with that scenario is that MP would try to pick up where he left off with BCSL, and I don't want that. No more "tough guy vocals". Also, he'd probably pull a Hagar/Roth and refuse to play the "other drummer's" songs.
I don't think it's just JLB and that the band wants to stand by MM. I think Jordan is also a lot happier with MM - not because he doesn't like Mike as a person, but I think he feels more comfortable with his role and not feeling pushed into directions that perhaps he doesn't care for.
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Would not shock me in the slightest if JP is there too. The guys were friends since they were what, 18?
The issue now in DT is -- they have a drummer they want to do right by, and JLB is more comfortable without MP. If one day MM leaves of his own accord, and MP and JLB can iron out their issues, MP will be back in DT. I wouldn't hold my breath, but stranger things have happened.
Glad that the Petrucci fam and the Portnoy fam are still friends.
If DT were to one day reunite with MP, and JLB stuck around, that'd be great. What concerns me with that scenario is that MP would try to pick up where he left off with BCSL, and I don't want that. No more "tough guy vocals". Also, he'd probably pull a Hagar/Roth and refuse to play the "other drummer's" songs.
Honestly, with all due respect to MP (who is my all time favorite drummer), there are quite a few MM parts that I don't think he could physically play even if he wanted to. Their drumming styles are completely different (hell, despite his immense ability, there are some points with MM when DT plays older songs that I catch myself saying "that doesn't sound right") so I can't even imagine how MM's parts would sound with MP playing them.
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Would not shock me in the slightest if JP is there too. The guys were friends since they were what, 18?
The issue now in DT is -- they have a drummer they want to do right by, and JLB is more comfortable without MP. If one day MM leaves of his own accord, and MP and JLB can iron out their issues, MP will be back in DT. I wouldn't hold my breath, but stranger things have happened.
Glad that the Petrucci fam and the Portnoy fam are still friends.
If DT were to one day reunite with MP, and JLB stuck around, that'd be great. What concerns me with that scenario is that MP would try to pick up where he left off with BCSL, and I don't want that. No more "tough guy vocals". Also, he'd probably pull a Hagar/Roth and refuse to play the "other drummer's" songs.
Honestly, with all due respect to MP (who is my all time favorite drummer), there are quite a few MM parts that I don't think he could physically play even if he wanted to. Their drumming styles are completely different (hell, despite his immense ability, there are some points with MM when DT plays older songs that I catch myself saying "that doesn't sound right") so I can't even imagine how MM's parts would sound with MP playing them.
I think he could still play the MM era songs, but he´d play them his own way. He did play Apocalypse 1470 B.C. with PSMS, a Derek Sherinian song that´s rather complex, and simplified it a lot.
An hey, wasn´t there a guy who posted on YouTube some videos of the drum parts of ADTOE "as if they were played by MP"? I saw this years ago and can´t find it anymore, but the result was amazing. The dude had all MP´s mannerisms and fills down to a T!!!
But even if MP returns to DT, I don´t think he´d want to play MM´s songs. I guess we´ll have to wait and see.
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In case anyone missed it in the picture thread, here is our group shot from NYC:
(https://www.wpapu.com/images/DTF04.jpg)
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Nice hat, Mill!
Cram looks possessed.
Stadler...Oxford shirt??
..and I can't believe the smartest guy on DTF is a Caveman! (apparently the only one who knows how to actually flick a bird)
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Nice hat, Mill!
Cram looks possessed.
Stadler...Oxford shirt??
..and I can't believe the smartest guy on DTF is a Caveman! (apparently the only one who knows how to actually flick a bird)
Dude, that's my concert shirt. I wear it to just about every show (and I'll wear a band shirt or something underneath). Was wearing it when I met my favorite musician of all time ever - Ritchie Blackmore - and it goes with me to shows ever since. Since that time I've hopped the gate and got to within five rows of Chris Cornell for Temple of the Dog (and a picture in the NY Daily News), got front row for Neal Morse (and met them, though that wasn't really "luck"), went on-stage and sang "I Love It Loud" with Gene Simmons (along with about 10 other old, fat guys), shook Keith Urban's hand (and got an autograph for my wife and daughter), and got to hang with Cram for two shows in New York City. It makes the experience better. If you saw it up close, it's a fucking mess; holes in the collar, strings from the sleeves and buttons... but it gets me where I need to go. I'll be wearing it next month when I see Yngwie... maybe he'll unleash the fury!
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Alright alright.. :lol
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Nice hat, Mill!
Cram looks possessed.
Stadler...Oxford shirt??
..and I can't believe the smartest guy on DTF is a Caveman! (apparently the only one who knows how to actually flick a bird)
Looks like the only one doing it wrong to me.
There's really no wrong way to flip a bird, but I can't even get my hand like that.
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I don't know who Beardy is, but that's how you're supposed to.
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I don't know who Beardy is, but that's how you're supposed to.
That's El Beardo
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I don't know who Beardy is, but that's how you're supposed to.
Says who?
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Nice to see some DTF members having a group photo at a show. Care to let us know who's who, please? :smiley:
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Nice to see some DTF members having a group photo at a show. Care to let us know who's who, please? :smiley:
Left-to-right:
me, El Barto, Stadler, cramx3, Nick, Axeman
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Kudos for El Barto having one hell of a beard. Also, I like how the forum moderator is the only one wearing full pants. :lol
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I didn't know there was a right or wrong way to give the finger, but I think I should get some credit for a double bird.
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I love how, if you didn't know better, Barto looks like a crazed photobomber that nobody knew was there, but who, minutes after the pic was taken, lured the other 5 back to his lair and consumed them all in a cannibalistic orgy.
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I love how, if you didn't know better, Barto looks like a crazed photobomber that nobody knew was there, but who, minutes after the pic was taken, lured the other 5 back to his lair and consumed them all in a cannibalistic orgy.
:lol
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In case anyone missed it in the picture thread, here is our group shot from NYC:
(https://www.wpapu.com/images/DTF04.jpg)
You guys should have stood together at the show with a big sign saying "Yes. we at DTF are still a "thing"!!"
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:lol
Totally!
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Would have been awesome :rollin :rollin
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Anyone here could recommend me a really good audio bootleg from this tour? Thanks!
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Yeah, that'd be awesome!.. I only know about a good multiangle video on YouTube (of the cruise show anyways)... but a bootleg gotta be even better..
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I asked because the YouTube videos are cool and all, but often with a lot of clipping in the audio.
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I found this: https://www.guitars101.com/forums/f145/mike-portnoys-shattered-fortress-2017-07-14-loreley-germany-flac-aud-440209.html
I've only heard Overture 1928 and the quality is good.
There's also this one that I didn't download, but it is rated as A-:
https://www.guitars101.com/forums/f145/mike-portnoys-shattered-fortress-2017-11-24-sydney-australia-flac-aud-16bit-44khz-499001.html