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General => Polls/Survivors => Topic started by: The Letter M on December 22, 2016, 05:03:45 PM
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This will be the home thread for all of the DT 2017 survivor results and posts, as well as any questions and comments I or participants might have about the survivor as a whole.
At the start of the new year, I will begin with the band's first two albums - yes, I will be running 2 albums concurrently, as I did with Rush earlier this year. It'll help get the survivor moving along as the band have 13 albums, and I also plan on doing The Majesty Demos and collected B-Sides, then the typical Consolation and Finals Rounds.
As usual each of the albums will get 3 winners, the top two of each will automatically move on to the Finals, and the third place will get a second change in the Consolation Rounds. The ONLY exception to this rule will be the band's last album, The Astonishing, whose top 4 tracks will go onto the Finals, and 5th and 6th will go on to the Consolation Rounds (carrying on the tradition of doing so with long double albums like The Lamb Lies Down On Broadway and Snow).
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Warm-Up Survivor - The Studio Albums
01, Scenes From A Memory
02. Images And Words
03. Six Degrees Of Inner Turbulence
04. Awake
05. A Dramatic Turn Of Events
06. Octavarium
07. Train Of Thought
08. The Astonishing
09. Falling Into Infinity
10. Systematic Chaos
11. Black Clouds & Silver Linings
12. Dream Theater
13. When Dream And Day Unite
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Bonus Survivor - The Live Albums
01. Score
02. Live Scenes From New York
03. Live At Budokan
04. Breaking The Fourth Wall
05. Live At Luna Park
06. Live At The Marquee
07. Once In A LIVEtime
08. Chaos In Motion 2007-2008
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Bonus Survivor - The Album Artwork/Covers
01. Scenes From A Memory
02. Train Of Thought
03. Six Degrees Of Inner Turbulence
04. Octavarium
05. Awake
06. Images And Words
07. The Astonishing
08. Systematic Chaos
09. A Change Of Seasons
10. Black Clouds & Silver Linings
11. A Dramatic Turn Of Events
12. Falling Into Infinity
Dream Theater
14. When Dream And Day Unite
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When Dream And Day Unite
01. The Killing Hand
02. A Fortune In Lies
03. The Ytse Jam
04. Afterlife
05. Only A Matter Of Time
06. The Ones Who Help To Set The Sun
07. Light Fuse And Get Away
08. Status Seeker
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Images And Words
01. Metropolis Part 1: The Miracle And The Sleeper
02. Learning To Live
03. Take The Time
04. Pull Me Under
05. Surrounded
06. Under A Glass Moon
07. Another Day
08. Wait For Sleep
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Awake
01. Scarred
02. The Mirror
03. Voices
04. Space-Dye Vest
05. 6:00
06. Caught In A Web
07. Lifting Shadows Off A Dream
08. Lie
09. Erotomania
10. Innocence Faded
11. The Silent Man
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Falling Into Infinity
01. Trial Of Tears
02. Lines In The Sand
03. Peruvian Skies
04. Hell's Kitchen
05. Hollow Years
06. Anna Lee
07. New Millennium
08. Burning My Soul
09. Take Away My Pain
10. Just Let Me Breathe
11. You Not Me
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Metropolis Part 2: Scenes From A Memory (By Track)
01. Home
02. Finally Free
03. Fatal Tragedy
04. Strange Déjà Vu
05. Beyond This Life
06. Overture 1928
07. The Dance Of Eternity
08. The Spirit Carries On
09. One Last Time
10. Through Her Eyes
11. Through My Words
12. Regression
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Metropolis Part 2: Scenes From A Memory (By Scene)
01. Scene Six: Home
02. Scene Nine: Finally Free
03. Scene Three: I. Through My Words / II. Fatal Tragedy
04. Scene Two: I. Overture / II. Strange Déjà Vu
05. Scene Seven: I. The Dance Of Eternity / II. One Last Time
06. Scene Four: Beyond This Life
07. Scene Eight: The Spirit Carries On
08. Scene Five: Through Her Eyes
09. Scene One: Regression
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Six Degrees Of Inner Turbulence
01. The Glass Prison
02. Disappear
03. The Great Debate
04. Misunderstood
05. Blind Faith
06. Six Degrees Of Inner Turbulence
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Train Of Thought
01. In The Name Of God
02. Stream Of Consciousness
03. This Dying Soul
04. Endless Sacrifice
05. As I Am
06. Vacant
07. Honor Thy Father
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Octavarium
01. Octavarium
02. The Root Of All Evil
03. Sacrificed Sons
04. These Walls
05. Panic Attack
06. Never Enough
07. The Answer Lies Within
08. I Walk Beside You
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Systematic Chaos
01. In The Presence Of Enemies
02. The Ministry Of Lost Souls
03. Forsaken
04. Constant Motion
05. The Dark Eternal Night
06. Repentance
07. Prophets Of War
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Black Clouds & Silver Linings
01. The Count Of Tuscany
02. A Nightmare To Remember
03. The Shattered Fortress
04. Wither
05. The Best Of Times
06. A Rite Of Passage
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A Dramatic Turn Of Events
01. Breaking All Illusions
02. Bridges In The Sky
03. On The Backs Of Angels
04. Outcry
05. This Is The Life
06. Beneath The Surface
07. Lost Not Forgotten
08. Far From Heaven
09. Build Me Up, Break Me Down
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Dream Theater
01. Illumination Theory
02. Surrender To Reason
03. The Bigger Picture
04. The Enemy Inside
05. Behind The Veil
06. The Looking Glass
07. Along For The Ride
08. Enigma Machine
09. False Awakening Suite
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The Astonishing
01. Three Days
02. Moment Of Betrayal
03. A Life Left Behind
A Tempting Offer
05. A Better Life
06. A Savior In The Square
07. Dystopian Overture
08. The Path That Divides
09. Lord Nafaryus
10. A New Beginning
11. The Gift Of Music
12. The X Aspect
13. Ravenskill
14. Heaven's Cove
15. When Your Time Has Come
16. The Walking Shadow
17. Our New World
18. Chosen
19. The Road To Revolution
20. Astonishing
21. The Answer
Act Of Faythe
My Last Farewell
24. Brother, Can You Hear Me?
25. Hymn Of A Thousand Voices
26. Begin Again
27. Losing Faythe
28. 2285 Entr'acte
29. Whispers On The Wind
30. Digital Discord
Machine Chatter
32. Descent Of The Nomacs
The Hovering Sojourn
Power Down
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Cleaning Out The Closet & Other B-Sides
01. A Change Of Seasons
02. To Live Forever
03. Eve
04. Speak To Me
05. Raise The Knife
06. Don't Look Past Me
07. The Way It Used To Be
08. Cover My Eyes
09. Where Are You Now?
10. You Or Me
11. Raw Dog
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The Majesty Demos
01. A Vision
02. March Of The Tyrant
03. Cry For Freedom
04. Another Won
05. Vital Star
06. Two Far
07. The School Song
08. Your Majesty
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Consolation Rounds
01. Take The Time
02. Fatal Tragedy
03. Voices
04. The Great Debate
05. Peruvian Skies
06. Sacrificed Sons
07. On The Backs Of Angels
08. The Bigger Picture
09. Forsaken
10. The Shattered Fortress
11. A Savior In The Square
12. A Better Life
13. This Dying Soul
14. Eve
15. The Ytse Jam
16. Cry For Freedom
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The Finals
01. Octavarium
02. A Change Of Seasons
03. Metropolis Part 1: The Miracle And The Sleeper
04. Learning To Live
05. Home
06. Breaking All Illusions
07. Take The Time
08. Trial Of Tears
09. The Glass Prison
10. Finally Free
11. Scarred
12. In The Name Of God
13. Bridges In The Sky
14. The Mirror
15. The Root Of All Evil
16. Fatal Tragedy
17. In The Presence Of Enemies
18. The Count Of Tuscany
19. Stream Of Consciousness
20. Disappear
21. The Ministry Of Lost Souls
22. Lines In The Sand
23. Illumination Theory
24. Moment Of Betrayal
25. Three Days
26. Surrender To Reason
27. A Nightmare To Remember
28. A Tempting Offer
29. A Life Left Behind
30. The Killing Hand
31. A Fortune In Lies
32. To Live Forever
33. A Vision
34. March Of The Tyrant
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-Marc.
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Eaglery following. :tup
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For the most part, all of the albums are their typical, normal retail release (WDADU, IAW, Awake, FII, TOT, 8VM, BC&SL, ADTOE, DT12, and TA), but for three albums, I wanted to bring a few points up:
Scenes From A Memory - I've decided to run this one with 9 options, those being the 9 "Scenes" of the album. Yes, I know the album technically has 12 TRACKS, but I wanted to change things up a bit, as I'm sure previous DT Survivor Runners have done it with the 12 tracks, and I think that's a bit unfair to pieces like "Through My Words" (which is a great prelude to "Fatal Tragedy") and "One Last Time" (which is a great cool-down from the insanity of "The Dance Of Eternity"). Those paired pieces just BELONG together, and I want to see how the results will change based on that.
Six Degrees Of Inner Turbulence - At first, I wasn't sure if I wanted to do it, but I've decided to run this one with 6 options, letting the title track exist as one cohesive piece (as the band wanted us to view it, going so far as to index the entire piece as one track on Score). I'm sure previous survivor runners did this as separate parts as well, and I know that as one whole piece, it will obviously place in the top 2, but I think a lot of fans would be upset if I tore the piece apart. I bet not even one part of the song would make it to the top 2 spots for SDOIT on their own.
Systematic Chaos - This one I took some personal liberties with. I've decided to run this one with 7 options, piecing together the epic "In The Presence Of Enemies" as it was originally conceived in the studio before it was split up for the sake of album pacing. The rest of the album's 6 tracks are laid out in the order I've been listening to it for the last 4-5 years, so I hope that doesn't confuse anyone. And yes, I spliced the wind sounds going out of TMOLS to crossfade into the wind sounds going into "Forsaken". It works perfectly!
In addition to the 13 studio albums, I'll also be running survivors for these other DT songs:
The Majesty Demos - In addition to the 6 regular TMD songs, I've included "The School Song" and "Cry For Freedom". Granted they were never recorded with vocals, but I think some might find them better than some of the main TMD tracks anyway!
Cleaning Out The Closet & Other B-Sides - I almost thought to just throw "A Change Of Seasons" into the Finals without putting it in any other survivors first, because let's face it, it'll probably make it to the Top 10, if not at least the Top 5, but I figured I'd let it face off against the other B-Sides and Non-Album tracks, including the odd instrumental "Raw Dog" and the alternate studio recording "You Or Me" (technically a different song, kind of, and it did get a full-on studio recording).
-Marc.
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This will be good!
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I essentially agree with all the choices, having 9 choices for Scenes instead of 12 makes it more "compact" and therefore a bit less difficult to vote for, since the album is widely regarded as their masterpiece and it has 12 tracks instead of the only 6 of Black Clouds and Six Degrees.
Also I agree with Six Degrees being one song, to separate the tracks would made the album survivor too scattered, and it needs to stand on its own.
Looking forward to all of this! :tup
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Looks good, I'm ready.
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I disagree about Scenes having 9 songs instead of 12 for the sole reason that it combines one of the best songs on the album (TDoE) with one of the worst (OLT) which gives TDoE a worse chance of advancing to the finals.
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I disagree about Scenes having 9 songs instead of 12 for the sole reason that it combines one of the best songs on the album (TDoE) with one of the worst (OLT) which gives TDoE a worse chance of advancing to the finals.
I am certainly not a fan of this either. I think something like this should have been put to a vote
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I disagree about Scenes having 9 songs instead of 12 for the sole reason that it combines one of the best songs on the album (TDoE) with one of the worst (OLT) which gives TDoE a worse chance of advancing to the finals.
I am certainly not a fan of this either. I think something like this should have been put to a vote
If you guys feel so strongly about it, I can start a poll about it. I didn't think there'd be much objection to it, but I'd like to hear what the other 30+ participants will say.
-Marc.
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The Majesty Demos - In addition to the 6 regular TMD songs, I've included "The School Song" and "Cry For Freedom". Granted they were never recorded with vocals, but I think some might find them better than some of the main TMD tracks anyway!
Yes!!! Me.. ;D
Cry for Freedom is awesome..
I disagree about Scenes having 9 songs instead of 12 for the sole reason that it combines one of the best songs on the album (TDoE) with one of the worst (OLT) which gives TDoE a worse chance of advancing to the finals.
Well, I just voted for the 9 songs option, and IMO TDoE is not only the best on that album, but in the entire discography.. What you're saying is right, but, paraphrasing Marc, "let's face it": TDoE won't be in the finals either way.. :-[
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As a heads up, I will be implementing the "Votes only visible when the round is closed" option for future Album Survivors. This will prevent people from offensive/defensive voting, that is, voting for another song (that they don't necessarily feel is THEIR OWN least favorite) just to save a song they like from being voted out. I figure this will be the most fair way to approach this, especially with upwards to 40 votes each round, I'd like things to be as fair as possible, especially since not everyone who votes posts their vote, so no one will be able to know which song(s) have which votes, unless everyone replies with their vote.
-Marc.
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As a heads up, I will be implementing the "Votes only visible when the round is closed" option for future Album Survivors. This will prevent people from offensive/defensive voting, that is, voting for another song (that they don't necessarily feel is THEIR OWN least favorite) just to save a song they like from being voted out. I figure this will be the most fair way to approach this, especially with upwards to 40 votes each round, I'd like things to be as fair as possible, especially since not everyone who votes posts their vote, so no one will be able to know which song(s) have which votes, unless everyone replies with their vote.
-Marc.
In doing that, you're taking the "survivor" right out of the game, as in trying to keep my favorite song surviving. May as well change the name of the whole thing to "vote out your least favorite song."
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As a heads up, I will be implementing the "Votes only visible when the round is closed" option for future Album Survivors. This will prevent people from offensive/defensive voting, that is, voting for another song (that they don't necessarily feel is THEIR OWN least favorite) just to save a song they like from being voted out. I figure this will be the most fair way to approach this, especially with upwards to 40 votes each round, I'd like things to be as fair as possible, especially since not everyone who votes posts their vote, so no one will be able to know which song(s) have which votes, unless everyone replies with their vote.
-Marc.
In doing that, you're taking the "survivor" right out of the game, as in trying to keep my favorite song surviving. May as well change the name of the whole thing to "vote out your least favorite song."
Perhaps, but I feel like a lot of non-posted votes happen in response to the majority of posted votes, and so those who don't post will vote for something in retaliation to the majority of posted votes. At that point, those who are actively posting in the threads with their votes and reasons behind them are left with no chance of their favorites surviving.
Also - for as long as I can remember, a Survivor has ALWAYS been voting out your least favorite of the options (with very few changes). Doing so means you pick what you feel is the weakest link, the one that isn't strong enough TO survive, much like in the reality tv show. The one player (or song) that people vote for is the one they feel is the weakest, or least favorite, and so, it becomes the one that does not survive. We shouldn't vote off songs so our favorites DO survive. If you wanted that, then it would be a "vote for your favorite", which would quickly become less exciting as the rounds progressive (and we're left picking between two songs that few people care about).
The whole point in picking your least favorite is to ramp up the excitement, because despite the results, the majority is usually something that many fans agree with, so when we're down to, for example, Metropolis Pt. 1 and Learning To Live on IAW, it becomes an exciting race to see which one takes the top spot - not that that matters much, top 2 songs go to the finals anyway.
If you think it's unfair to run the rounds withholding the results until it's closed, I can not do it that way. I would enjoy hearing others' opinions on this matter first. I won't begin the first rounds for WDADU and IAW until January 1st, so we've got a couple days until I start them.
-Marc.
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Ok.. I vote for the "Votes only visible when the round is closed" option..
I think is a complex issue, since on one side the game is called "survivor", which implies we should vote whatever song in order to keeping "alive" our favorite one; and, on the other side, the only rule is to vote (out) your least favorite song each round, so according to this you must vote for the song you like less, or the one you more dislike, etc, but never having in mind your favorite song..
The thing is that, IMO, the latter is the only relevant aspect of the two, because what's important is the content of the game, and not just its name.. The word "survivor" for itself doesn't represent any specific rule..
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Well, since not everyone post their votes in the comments and you can't see them before you actually vote - and once you cast a vote that's it - I don't see that much difference in seeing the votes or not, if at all it leaves a bit of uncertainty.
Furthermore, when you see the final results, you can already see which song got "almost" eliminated and you can decide anyway to vote against it to save your favorite song...
See this scenario: I blindly vote against The Dark Eternal Night in the SC Survivor. I see that everyone is voting Prophets of War instead and it gets eliminated, and Constant Motion got just one vote less than Forskaen, my favorite song, which I want to prerserve, while nobody else voted for TDEN.
I can decide anyway to vote against Constant Motion next time around since I would know anyway that nobody else is voting my least favorite song (TDEN) just yet.
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I've been forced to vote tactically (the tactic being 'guess what the majority would vote for') now out of sheer frustration that my favourite songs are eliminated far too early. Like with all democracies, for your vote to actually matter, you have to go along with the crowd.
Survivor is a game. And games have tactics and strategy. You're denying us our right to choose the way we vote.
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Like I said in the Haken survivor, it just comes down people playing this for different reasons. We've got Group A, who play to get an interesting and honest look on how the fans view the albums/songs of an artist/band, and Group B who play it as a game they're trying to win through strategy. No one way is necessarily wrong, but it gets frustrating for Group A when the honest result they're looking for is constantly compromised by Group B.
I don't know if there's a way around this though. People just have different motivations for doing this.
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You cannot prevent that from happening, the only thing this changes is people have to wait until the round closes before being able to decide what 'needs' to be voted strategically to protect their favourites. At the cost of no one being able to see the results while actually voting, which to me, takes away a lot of the fun of survivors.
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Well, since not everyone post their votes in the comments and you can't see them before you actually vote - and once you cast a vote that's it - I don't see that much difference in seeing the votes or not, if at all it leaves a bit of uncertainty.
The difference is that no one will be able to post the partial results through comments like "OMG X song is about to lose" or "I knew X wouldn't receive any votes", or even being more precise, which it usually happens..
Furthermore, when you see the final results, you can already see which song got "almost" eliminated and you can decide anyway to vote against it to save your favorite song...
But anyway, I didn't think of this before.. And I guess you're right.. It'd be almost the same..
You cannot prevent that from happening, the only thing this changes is people have to wait until the round closes before being able to decide what 'needs' to be voted strategically to protect their favourites. At the cost of no one being able to see the results while actually voting, which to me, takes away a lot of the fun of survivors.
Actually, I thought that probably it'd be more fun if we don't know the results until the rounds end because that way we'd have a bit of intrigue that otherwise is completely absent.. In that aspect, what we've been doing until now is like playing poker and seeing the cards of your opponents before betting..
TL/DR: after reading the comments above, whichever of the options it'd be fine for me.. I don't play strategically anyway and, although I'd do want to see honest rather than "tactic" results, I don't know what the solution would be to see them..
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To me the "tactic" votes have influence only in the mid-range songs. The least liked songs are gonna go out pretty soon anyway and the most favorite ones are gonna win anyway. If enough people love a song, there's no need to "team up" for it since that song would go far.
Take the Octavarium and Systematic Chaos albums for example. I personally like a lot I Walk Beside You and Forsaken, by strategic vote I could save them for a round or two, but do you picture me (or anybody else) by sole calculation to get I Walk Beside You winning over Octavarium or Forsaken winning over In the Presence of Enemies? not a chance in hell.
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That's precisely the kind of thinking I'm against to.. If we're playing this game just to know what song would win, then it wouldn't have much sense to do the amount of rounds we do.. We should instead just make a plain poll and there you'll have what's the most liked song..
One of the purpose of the game is to let people know the entire DTF ranking of DT songs -or at least the more representative that it could be-, and not only the winner or the few most favorite songs.. That'd be boring since we already know among which songs is the winner (ACoS, 8V, maybe BAI).. I wanna know how far will survive the songs *I* like the most, and I think that's the case for many of us..
But yeah, opinions....
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One of the purpose of the game is to let people know the entire DTF ranking of DT songs -or at least the more representative that it could be
It should be, but not enough people participate. And not enough people are willing to put in the time to participate through the entire process. This was seen in DT the League last year, when we had over 50 participants in one of the Week 1 tournaments, and it dropped to less than half of that in Week 2, and never got even close to reaching those figures again. Heck, many members don't even know P&S exists, or they choose to ignore it. It's a shame, as it would be cool to try and push for more of a genuine consensus on the community's most popular DT song, to say at the end of all this, that [winning song] is the definitive Forum Champion.
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When Dream And Day Unite's Final Round's Results:
A Fortune In Lies 18 (54.5%)
The Killing Hand 15 (45.5%)
01. The Killing Hand
02. A Fortune In Lies
03. The Ytse Jam
04. Afterlife
05. Only A Matter Of Time
06. The Ones Who Help To Set The Sun
07. Light Fuse And Get Away
08. Status Seeker
And by three votes, the album's token epic "The Killing Hand" reigns supreme! Either way, both it and the opening track "A Fortune In Lies" get to advance to the finals, while the instrumental "Ytse Jam" gets another shot in the Consolation Rounds (though to be honest, it will probably be one of the first tracks to go in that survivor).
Images And Words's Final Round's Results:
Metropolis Pt. 1 13 (34.2%)
Learning To Live 25 (65.8%)
01. Metropolis Part 1: The Miracle And The Sleeper
02. Learning To Live
03. Take The Time
04. Pull Me Under
05. Surrounded
06. Under A Glass Moon
07. Another Day
08. Wait For Sleep
With nearly double the votes, the closing epic "Learning To Live" takes second place, but both it and "Metropolis Pt. 1" gets to advance to the finals, with "Take The Time" getting another shot in the Consolation Rounds, where it might actually do well!
Thanks to everyone who has participated so far through these first two albums! Oddly enough, both WDADU and IAW have the same number of tracks, so without tie-breakers, it was easy to run them simultaneously. I hope the same goes for Awake and FII as both albums have 11 tracks each!
After Awake and FII, I plan to run TWO VERSIONS of SFAM - one with 12 options (the LP's 12 indexed tracks), and one with 9 options (separated by the album's 9 scenes). After that, I want to poll everyone on what they feel is the better results, and if there's a huge difference between the two for one way or the other, then we will use the results from the more popular end-ranking (which will of course, likely affect the Top 3 of the album).
If for some reason the Top 3 remain largely unchanged between the two albums (For example, if in the 12-track one, Home and The Spirit Carries On go to the finals and Finally Free gets third, and in the 9-track one the same top 3 remain, but the rest of the ranking is different), then I'll use those top 3. If there's a huge difference because of the track layout, then I'd still like to poll everyone about which ranking they'd like to see used in the finals!
-Marc.
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Awake's Final Round's Results:
The Mirror 27 (64.3%)
Scarred 15 (35.7%)
01. Scarred
02. The Mirror
03. Voices
04. Space-Dye Vest
05. 6:00
06. Caught In A Web
07. Lifting Shadows Off A Dream
08. Lie
09. Erotomania
10. Innocence Faded
11. The Silent Man
The album's longest track takes the top spot, while its seventh track places second. "Voices" goes on to fight again in the Consolation rounds.
Falling Into Infinity's Final Round's Results:
Lines In The Sand 26 (63.4%)
Trial Of Tears 15 (36.6%)
01. Trial Of Tears
02. Lines In The Sand
03. Peruvian Skies
04. Hell's Kitchen
05. Hollow Years
06. Anna Lee
07. New Millennium
08. Burning My Soul
09. Take Away My Pain
10. Just Let Me Breathe
11. You Not Me
The album's longest track takes the top spot, while its seventh track places seco-...wait...that's REALLY weird. Anyways, "Peruvian Skies" goes on to the Consolation rounds for another chance to take a place in the Finals.
Now we move on to a double-dip of SFAM survivors, then a poll between which results we will use in the finals! This will last a couple more weeks, then we'll move on to SDOIT and TOT.
-Marc.
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Haven't been involved til now because I rarely frequent this subforum, so I didn't even realize it was happening.
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Metropolis Part 2: Scenes From A Memory (By Scene)'s Final Round's Results:
Scene Six: Home 19 (48.7%)
Scene Nine: Finally Free 20 (51.3%)
01. Scene Six: Home
02. Scene Nine: Finally Free
03. Scene Three: I. Through My Words / II. Fatal Tragedy
04. Scene Two: I. Overture / II. Strange Déjà Vu
05. Scene Seven: I. The Dance Of Eternity / II. One Last Time
06. Scene Four: Beyond This Life
07. Scene Eight: The Spirit Carries On
08. Scene Five: Through Her Eyes
09. Scene One: Regression
By just ONE vote, "Home" beats out "Finally Free" and claims the top spot. The way it's currently looking in the "By Track" Survivor, the top 3 will essentially be the same, except that "Fatal Tragedy" won't be paired with "Through My Words". If the Top 3 end up being exactly the same, the only voting difference would be whether or not I include "Through My Words" with "Fatal Tragedy" in the Consolation Rounds (assuming FT will place third in the other survivor, which seems highly likely).
-Marc.
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By just ONE vote, "Home" beats out "Finally Free" and claims the top spot. The way it's currently looking in the "By Track" Survivor, the top 3 will essentially be the same, except that "Fatal Tragedy" won't be paired with "Through My Words". If the Top 3 end up being exactly the same, the only voting difference would be whether or not I include "Through My Words" with "Fatal Tragedy" in the Consolation Rounds (assuming FT will place third in the other survivor, which seems highly likely).
-Marc.
I think with the top three being the same, going by track would give a far more accurate representation of our votes. In the "By Track" survivor, Through My Words was the second song eliminated which means that in the "By Scene" survivor, Fatal Tragedy carried it to the top three.
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By just ONE vote, "Home" beats out "Finally Free" and claims the top spot. The way it's currently looking in the "By Track" Survivor, the top 3 will essentially be the same, except that "Fatal Tragedy" won't be paired with "Through My Words". If the Top 3 end up being exactly the same, the only voting difference would be whether or not I include "Through My Words" with "Fatal Tragedy" in the Consolation Rounds (assuming FT will place third in the other survivor, which seems highly likely).
-Marc.
I think with the top three being the same, going by track would give a far more accurate representation of our votes. In the "By Track" survivor, Through My Words was the second song eliminated which means that in the "By Scene" survivor, Fatal Tragedy carried it to the top three.
That's a good point. I think I'll run with that, if the results for the Top 2 happen to be the exact same.
-Marc.
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In the "By Track" survivor, Through My Words was the second song eliminated which means that in the "By Scene" survivor, Fatal Tragedy carried it to the top three.
Yeah, although is obvious that it happened that way because TMW is too short, and, so to speak, it doesn't spoil nor even change significally the song; actually, the vast majority think they complement very well each other and that the only propose of TMW is to serve as a prelude to FT.. But if FT would've share the scene with, let's say, Through Her Eyes, I think it wouldn't have make it to the third place..
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Metropolis Part 2: Scenes From A Memory (By Track)'s Final Round's Results:
Home 15 (46.9%)
Finally Free 17 (53.1%)
01. Home
02. Finally Free
03. Fatal Tragedy
04. Strange Déjà Vu
05. Beyond This Life
06. Overture 1928
07. The Dance Of Eternity
08. The Spirit Carries On
09. One Last Time
10. Through Her Eyes
11. Through My Words
12. Regression
Looks like "Finally Free" places second, once again, but by 2 votes rather than 1, and with 7 less votes overall. Perhaps those folks either didn't get a chance to vote, or just assumed the results would be the same. Not that it matters TOO much since both songs will advance to the finals, regardless of which one was voted first and second, but in both cases, "Home" took the top spot, so congrats to "Home"!
In the poll to decide which version to use for Consolation/Third Place:
Track 05 - Fatal Tragedy 18 (58.1%)
Scene Three: I. Through My Words / II. Fatal Tragedy 13 (41.9%)
Looks like JUST the track "Fatal Tragedy" will represent SFAM in the Consolation rounds, leaving behind it's Scene partner "Through My Words". I find it oddly coincidental that in BOTH survivors, FT managed to secure third place, which made decided between the two survivors' results a bit easier.
Now that the double-whammy of SFAM Survivors is over, we're moving on to the 6th and 7th albums, featuring some of the band's heaviest and most experimental material to that time!
-Marc.
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Six Degrees Of Inner Turbulence's Final Round's Results:
The Glass Prison 17 (38.6%)
Disappear 27 (61.4%)
01. The Glass Prison
02. Disappear
03. The Great Debate
04. Misunderstood
05. Blind Faith
06. Six Degrees Of Inner Turbulence
In what's sure to be one of the most surprising survivor rankings of this whole thing, the title epic went out first, leaving the rest of the album to fend off for the top 2 spots. As suspected, the opening heavy-hitter, "The Glass Prison" takes the top spot, but typical dark horse "Disappear" beat out the other longer songs from disc 1, securing a place in the Finals alongside TGP.
Train Of Thought ends tomorrow night, Octavarium has just begun, and Systematic Chaos will begin tomorrow. We are BLAZING through this survivor, folks, so I hope we continue this high level of participation all the way to the end! I've never run a survivor with over 40 voters before, so it's been quite a treat seeing the results every day, sometimes changing the leader by the hour! It's been VERY exciting! Thanks again to everyone for voting as we reach the half-way point of the albums!
-Marc.
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Train Of Thought's Final Round's Results:
Stream Of Consciousness 25 (71.4%)
In The Name Of God 10 (28.6%)
01. In The Name Of God
02. Stream Of Consciousness
03. This Dying Soul
04. Endless Sacrifice
05. As I Am
06. Vacant
07. Honor Thy Father
SOC loses to ITNOG, which takes the top spot but both go on to the Finals. What a very expected result! For once, a ranking that seemed to line up with most people's expectations. I don't see that happening again any time soon...
Anyways, not that SDOIT and TOT are done, we're getting through the meat of 8VM and SC, both of which should end on the same night. After that, we'll begin the first rounds of BC&SL and ADTOE, though the latter will probably be interrupted a bit as I am going away for a trip from February 16th to the 19th, so no updates will occur unless I manage to get some down-time in between my busy schedule. We'll see!
-Marc.
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We are breezing through this! It's only been 5 weeks (ish) since the main survivor started, and we're already into Octavarium and Systematic Chaos!
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We are breezing through this! It's only been 5 weeks (ish) since the main survivor started, and we're already into Octavarium and Systematic Chaos!
The Astonishing could take a while to get through.
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We are breezing through this! It's only been 5 weeks (ish) since the main survivor started, and we're already into Octavarium and Systematic Chaos!
The Astonishing could take a while to get through.
Yes, although I'm assuming that M's usual practice of multiple-voting for early rounds of long albums will make it go a little bit quicker than 34 days.
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We are breezing through this! It's only been 5 weeks (ish) since the main survivor started, and we're already into Octavarium and Systematic Chaos!
The Astonishing could take a while to get through.
Yes, although I'm assuming that M's usual practice of multiple-voting for early rounds of long albums will make it go a little bit quicker than 34 days.
This is indeed the plan. The first round will allow voters to vote off 7 songs, which should help everyone vote off the NOMAC tracks, which I assume will all be the first to go anyways. Second round will have 6 votes, third to have 5 and so on and so forth. At the seventh round, it'll b e single-votes only, and single-song eliminations from there on out.
This is a practice I've done with many double-length LPs - The Lamb Lies Down On Broadway, Snow, and Testimony.
-Marc.
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Smart move for the Nomac tracks, didn't expect however an "early carnage" of so many songs!
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Well, typically, I try to cast out the X-number of songs that votes are allowed, so for the first round of TA, people will vote for 7 songs, so I will eliminate the 7 songs with the most votes, unless there's a tie along the way that results in either 6 or 8 songs. In which case, if the 8th (or above) tied song yields more votes than half the number of voters, they'll be eliminated anyway.
For example, let's say the 5 NOMAC tracks all go out, but then 3 more tracks all get 21 votes, and there are 40 voters. Those three tracks, in addition to the other 5, will all go out, resulting in 8 losers in the first round. It will vary by round, of course, depending on the results, but it should help expedite the process of elimination given that the album has 34 tracks.
-Marc.
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Octavarium's Final Round's Results:
The Root Of All Evil 36 (83.7%)
Octavarium 7 (16.3%)
01. Octavarium
02. The Root Of All Evil
03. Sacrificed Sons
04. These Walls
05. Panic Attack
06. Never Enough
07. The Answer Lies Within
08. I Walk Beside You
As expected, the title-track epic places first, though what's a bit unexpected, the opening track (and continuation of "Octavarium") also follows the epic to the finals! "Sacrificed Sons" gets a second chance in the Consolation Rounds.
Systematic Chaos's Final Round's Results:
The Ministry Of Lost Souls 32 (82.1%)
In The Presence Of Enemies 7 (17.9%)
01. In The Presence Of Enemies
02. The Ministry Of Lost Souls
03. Forsaken
04. Constant Motion
05. The Dark Eternal Night
06. Repentance
07. Prophets Of War
The album's two longest tracks get to move on to the Finals, as almost anyone could have predicted. What few may have predicted was how CLOSE "Forsaken" made it, but it gets to go on to the Consolation Rounds.
Those two albums certainly had some intense rounds!!! Let's see how these next two go. As a heads up, I will be on a short vacation from the 16th to the 19th, but I will try to complete the ADTOE Survivor those nights when I can update. If not, it'll get completed whenever I get back. BC&SL should finish before I leave next Thursday.
-Marc.
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Black Clouds & Silver Linings' Final Round's Results:
A Nightmare To Remember 35 (79.5%)
The Count Of Tuscany 9 (20.5%)
01. The Count Of Tuscany
02. A Nightmare To Remember
03. The Shattered Fortress
04. Wither
05. The Best Of Times
06. A Rite Of Passage
By an OVERWHELMING majority, TCOT takes the top spot while ANTR gets second, but both get to move on to the Finals, with TSF getting another chance in the Consolation Rounds. Now that the songs from the 12SS are done, it's interesting to note that "Repentance" was the only one of the five not to reach the Top 3 of it's respective album!
We'll be wrapping up ADTOE this week (hopefully I can update while I am away), then on Sunday night (or Monday morning), I will begin the rounds for The Astonishing and the B-Sides DT12!
-Marc.
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What about DT12?
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What about DT12?
WHOOPS! Got ahead of myself. Next week I will start TA and DT12. My bad :facepalm:
AFTER DT12 finishes, I will start the B-Sides Survivor, and then after TA finishes, The Majesty Demos Survivor. Then after ALL of that, the road to finals - Consolation Rounds will begin!!!
Then, 33 rounds of Finals to determine the ultimate DT song in this survivor!
-Marc.
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I still can't believe we're onto the latest DT albums and it's only mid-February. I know there's still a fair way to go, but I was thinking we'd be at this point in late March or early April. Handy thing with running two albums at a time, I suppose.
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I still can't believe we're onto the latest DT albums and it's only mid-February. I know there's still a fair way to go, but I was thinking we'd be at this point in late March or early April. Handy thing with running two albums at a time, I suppose.
Two albums going at once and half the time to vote. This is flying by.
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What about DT12?
no, let's just forget that ever happened
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A Dramatic Turn Of Events' Final Round's Results:
Bridges In The Sky 26 (76.5%)
Breaking All Illusions 8 (23.5%)
01. Breaking All Illusions
02. Bridges In The Sky
03. On The Backs Of Angels
04. Outcry
05. This Is The Life
06. Beneath The Surface
07. Lost Not Forgotten
08. Far From Heaven
09. Build Me Up, Break Me Down
This was a fairly predictable outcome, especially since the beginning when it seemed like both BAI and BITS would definitely go to the Finals, though I didn't expect OTBOA to make it to the Consolation over Outcry.
Whenever I get up tomorrow morning, I'll begin the first rounds for DT12 and TA (which will have a 7-vote option for every voter, so please be sure to vote for 7 tracks!).
-Marc.
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Dream Theater's Final Round's Results:
Surrender To Reason 25 (61%)
Illumination Theory 16 (39%)
01. Illumination Theory
02. Surrender To Reason
03. The Bigger Picture
04. The Enemy Inside
05. Behind The Veil
06. The Looking Glass
07. Along For The Ride
08. Enigma Machine
09. False Awakening Suite
"The Bigger Picture" goes on to the Consolation Rounds, while the epic album closer "Illumination Theory" goes to the Finals with "Surrender To Reason". Overall, I'm surprised that "The Enemy Inside" made it so high up on the list, and above "Behind The Veil" no less, but other than that, I am pretty content with this final ranking.
Now we move on to the Cleaning Out The Closet/B-Sides/Non-Album Tracks Survivor, and when that is over, The Majesty Demos! One those are done, along with The Astonishing, the Consolation Rounds will begin (sometime around the the 17th or 18th of March). IF things plan out just right, the Finals will begin at the start of April (hopefully the 1st, if not, then the 2nd or 3rd). The Finals will carry us through early May. *nudge nudge*
-Marc.
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Since a couple of the other band-survivors here are doing them, I've decided that, during the Consolation Rounds, I'll also start an Album Artwork survivor, covering the band's 13 studio albums, and perhaps I'll throw in ACOS (since it's cover art is very in-line with IAW and Awake).
During the Finals, I may do one or two more spin-off survivors. If anyone has any ideas or suggestions, feel free to lob them at me here. I had thought about doing "Vocals" and "Instruments" survivors, or perhaps do a Live Album survivor (covering the 8 major live albums released officially by the band). I could also do a "Singles Survivor", pitting the 26 officially released singles from the band (according to the Dream Theater discography wiki page). That could be a fun one as I don't think I've seen a "Singles Survivor" before.
-Marc.
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Cover artworks and live albums sound fun!
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Cleaning Out The Closet & Other B-Sides' Final Round's Results:
A Change Of Seasons 1 (3.6%)
To Live Forever 27 (96.4%)
01. A Change Of Seasons
02. To Live Forever
03. Eve
04. Speak To Me
05. Raise The Knife
06. Don't Look Past Me
07. The Way It Used To Be
08. Cover My Eyes
09. Where Are You Now?
10. You Or Me
11. Raw Dog
The early instrumental "Eve" moves on to the Consolation Rounds while "To Live Forever" and "A Change Of Seasons" both advance to the finals!
We're wrapping up The Astonishing and starting The Majesty Demos. Since I cannot start the Consolation Rounds until BOTH of those album survivors are finished, I'll probably begin the "Album Artwork" Survivor after TA finishes (since there are only 4 more rounds for it left anyway, while TMD has 7 more rounds).
-Marc.
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The Astonishing's Final Round's Results:
Three Days 14 (43.8%)
Moment Of Betrayal 18 (56.3%)
01. Three Days
02. Moment Of Betrayal
03. A Life Left Behind
A Tempting Offer
05. A Better Life
06. A Savior In The Square
07. Dystopian Overture
08. The Path That Divides
09. Lord Nafaryus
10. A New Beginning
11. The Gift Of Music
12. The X Aspect
13. Ravenskill
14. Heaven's Cove
15. When Your Time Has Come
16. The Walking Shadow
17. Our New World
18. Chosen
19. The Road To Revolution
20. Astonishing
21. The Answer
Act Of Faythe
My Last Farewell
24. Brother, Can You Hear Me?
25. Hymn Of A Thousand Voices
26. Begin Again
27. Losing Faythe
28. 2285 Entr'acte
29. Whispers On The Wind
30. Digital Discord
Machine Chatter
32. Descent Of The Nomacs
The Hovering Sojourn
Power Down
As decided by voting, and by ONE VOTE, the plan to take the top 4 to the Finals wins, which means 5th and 6th place songs will advance to the Consolation Rounds, which will begin Tomorrow!
-Marc.
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The Majesty Demos' Final Round's Results:
A Vision 3 (30%)
March Of The Tyrant 7 (70%)
The Majesty Demos
01. A Vision
02. March Of The Tyrant
03. Cry For Freedom
04. Another Won
05. Vital Star
06. Two Far
07. The School Song
08. Your Majesty
The album epic, "A Vision", takes the top spot, but both it and "March Of The Tyrant" move on to the Finals! "Cry For Freedom" made it to the Consolation Rounds, but was promptly eliminated in the first round. Nice try, CFF, better luck next time.
Now we move on through the rest of the Consolation Rounds, as well as the side-survivor of the Album Artwork/Covers, and whenever that ends, I may do another "for fun" survivor, perhaps one for the officially released live albums.
-Marc.
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A live album survivor would be interesting
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The Album Artwork's Final Round's Results:
Scenes From A Memory 14 (36.8%)
Train Of Thought 24 (63.2%)
01. Scenes From A Memory
02. Train Of Thought
03. Six Degrees Of Inner Turbulence
04. Octavarium
05. Awake
06. Images And Words
07. The Astonishing
08. Systematic Chaos
09. A Change Of Seasons
10. Black Clouds & Silver Linings
11. A Dramatic Turn Of Events
12. Falling Into Infinity
Dream Theater
14. When Dream And Day Unite
Looks like SFAM takes the top spot, much to some fan's disappointment. As one voter said, perhaps the love for the music was being projected onto the album artwork. I agree with another voter's opinion when they said that artwork doesn't really appeal to me that much, at least not enough to think much of it. Certainly, IMO, SFAM doesn't really do much for me. Sure, graphically it tries to throw in a lot of ideas from the album's lyrics, but I think TOT fits the mood and feel of the album without having to be a patchwork of artistic interpretations of lyrical ideas.
Anyways, now that that survivor is over, we move on to our next "bonus survivor" in The Live Albums! It'll be a shorty, only 7 rounds as there are only 8 officially released live albums to this point. After that one runs its course, I'm open to suggestions for another DT-related survivor. Perhaps, if it isn't too controversial, maybe one of DT's members, including only members who have been a part of the band's album recordings (from WDADU onward). That would be interesting...or perhaps I can revive my pair of "DT Longest Songs" and "DT Shortest Songs" survivors, where I took the longest and shortest songs from each album and put them in a survivor. The results were quite interesting when I did those last, but that was back in 2010, before ADTOE, so there's a couple new epics to throw into that. Or perhaps I can do a "Just The Epics" Survivor? Maybe I can take the first-song-out from each album survivor and pit them against each other, to see which songs DTF thinks is the worst of the worst!
-Marc.
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Out of those, I'd be interested in the DT's member survivor..
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An eventual "longest songs" survivor for me shouldn't have just the longest song of each album, it should start from a time limit, 12 or 15 minutes songs for example. This would penalize The Astonishing, but it would be even weirder to have a longest songs survivor with The Count of Tuscany in but not A Nightmare to Remember which is longer than Learning to Live for example.
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Out of those, I'd be interested in the DT's member survivor..
Agreed.
An eventual "longest songs" survivor for me shouldn't have just the longest song of each album, it should start from a time limit, 12 or 15 minutes songs for example. This would penalize The Astonishing, but it would be even weirder to have a longest songs survivor with The Count of Tuscany in but not A Nightmare to Remember which is longer than Learning to Live for example.
I'm not a fan of this in principle... as the main survivor is more than enough for the "long" songs.... but I do prefer your way over the way proposed for sure.
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An eventual "longest songs" survivor for me shouldn't have just the longest song of each album, it should start from a time limit, 12 or 15 minutes songs for example. This would penalize The Astonishing, but it would be even weirder to have a longest songs survivor with The Count of Tuscany in but not A Nightmare to Remember which is longer than Learning to Live for example.
The longest song survivor would be kind of pointless considering the two songs that have the best shot at winning are also the two favorites to win the regular survivor as well.
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Didn't think of that, most likely you're right.
Another whacky idea for a spinoff: the battle of the parts, or movements... having compete by name all the sections of A Change of Seasons, Six Degrees, Octavarium and In the Presence of Enemies. Throw in the 12 steps separated for a major mess :lol
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Didn't think of that, most likely you're right.
Another whacky idea for a spinoff: the battle of the parts, or movements... having compete by name all the sections of A Change of Seasons, Six Degrees, Octavarium and In the Presence of Enemies. Throw in the 12 steps separated for a major mess :lol
This was done a while ago (possibly even by our current host; I can't remember).
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Didn't think of that, most likely you're right.
Another whacky idea for a spinoff: the battle of the parts, or movements... having compete by name all the sections of A Change of Seasons, Six Degrees, Octavarium and In the Presence of Enemies. Throw in the 12 steps separated for a major mess :lol
This was done a while ago (possibly even by our current host; I can't remember).
I have indeed run DT Movements Survivors, for every song that has had 3 or more individually named movements, but this was before ADTOE, so there'd be 2 new songs to add to the mix!
-Marc.
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Consolation's Final Round's Results:
Take The Time 14 (38.9%)
Fatal Tragedy 22 (61.1%)
01. Take The Time
02. Fatal Tragedy
03. Voices
04. The Great Debate
05. Peruvian Skies
06. Sacrificed Sons
07. On The Backs Of Angels
08. The Bigger Picture
09. Forsaken
10. The Shattered Fortress
11. A Savior In The Square
12. A Better Life
13. This Dying Soul
14. Eve
15. The Ytse Jam
16. Cry For Freedom
Nearly 2-to-1, FT places second behind TTT, but both move on to the finals! Not too surprisingly so, considering IAW and SFAM are two of the band's most well-known and renowned albums, but hardcore and casual fans alike.
As you all know, the Finals have now begun, and over the next month, we'll chop away our majority-voted least favorite songs until we determine the top song!
Until then, I'd like to run a couple more fun survivors, so I'll take another day to think about which to do next, or see if there are any other suggestions posted here before I start one! If I do the "Movements" survivor again, it'd be the Twelve-Step Suite (all 12 movements), as well as the 8 songs with movements (ACOS, TKH, TOT, SDOIT, 8VM, ITPOE, FAS, and IT), then a Finals consisting of the Top Movement from each of those 9 sets facing off against each other. If this sounds interesting, then please let me know here and I'll start that one up! It'll run just as long, if not a bit longer than the actual Finals themselves, so it would carry us all the way through early May.
-Marc.
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I was hoping to find the Finals results from the last completed DT Survivor (2011-12, I believe), in order to compare the results from that one to this one, 6 years later. Alas, I could not. All I remember is that Learning to Live was the champion of that survivor, and it's finished 4th this year.
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I was hoping to find the Finals results from the last completed DT Survivor (2011-12, I believe), in order to compare the results from that one to this one, 6 years later. Alas, I could not. All I remember is that Learning to Live was the champion of that survivor, and it's finished 4th this year.
I think pre-2012, a lot of threads were deleted, so unless the survivor-runner kept that information handy in a text file or email somewhere, it's probably lost data.
-Marc.
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I found this page, with results (well, top 25) from 2005-2010:
https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=3364.0 (https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=3364.0)
I'm not sure if 2011 and 2012 actually got completed.
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I found this page, with results (well, top 25) from 2005-2010:
https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=3364.0 (https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=3364.0)
I'm not sure if 2011 and 2012 actually got completed.
Hmm...the 2010 one has Learning to Live as the champion, so that might have been the last one completed. Looking at the latter pages of threads for P&S, I can see that the 2012 Survivor was unfinished, and the League took over that December for its 2013 edition. I'm going to assume that 2010 was the last one then, and compare from there. Thanks for finding this!
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The Finals' Final Round's Results:
Octavarium 25 (49%)
A Change Of Seasons 26 (51%)
By just one vote, ACOS loses to 8VM, so the latter-released epic takes the top spot, but both were very worthy contenders for the gold!
Regardless of whatever has been going on with certain fun-hating, attention-seeking, no-life-having users with multiple accounts, this was a fun survivor to run and I'm glad it generated so much participation and discussion! Thanks to everyone who stuck through it with their best and honest intentions and efforts throughout! I applaud you all for being able to get through this massive survivor with me!
I hope to do this again some day if there is a decent amount of people willing to play along again!
-Marc.
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The Finals' Final Round's Results:
Octavarium 25 (49%)
A Change Of Seasons 26 (51%)
By just one vote, ACOS loses to 8VM, so the latter-released epic takes the top spot, but both were very worthy contenders for the gold!
Regardless of whatever has been going on with certain fun-hating, attention-seeking, no-life-having users with multiple accounts, this was a fun survivor to run and I'm glad it generated so much participation and discussion! Thanks to everyone who stuck through it with their best and honest intentions and efforts throughout! I applaud you all for being able to get through this massive survivor with me!
I hope to do this again some day if there is a decent amount of people willing to play along again!
-Marc.
Thank you for running this. It was a blast to participate in.
And FWIW, Octavarium had a stranglehold on the League for years and was going to place in a high spot anyway. It's not like Raw Dog won. It sucks that one person tried to ruin this, but at least a fan favorite took the gold.
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I see it as basically a tie anyway between two of DT's biggest epics, thanks M for running this! :metal