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Dream Theater => Dream Theater => Topic started by: MirrorMask on November 15, 2016, 03:39:31 AM

Title: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: MirrorMask on November 15, 2016, 03:39:31 AM
I have found nothing on DT's site but a reliable italian website announced three italian dates where DT will perform entirely Images and Words.

http://metalitalia.com/articolo/dream-theater-tre-date-in-italia-con-tutto-images-and-words/

Here's the page for you Google Translate fans, there's a link directly to TicketOne for the presales.

Weird that this comes apparently out of nowhere!
Title: Re: Unconfirmed yet: DT may play the whole I&W in full next year?
Post by: noxon on November 15, 2016, 03:40:39 AM
http://www.dreamtheater.net/tour
Title: Re: Unconfirmed yet: DT may play the whole I&W in full next year?
Post by: MirrorMask on November 15, 2016, 03:42:58 AM
Silly me. I didn't check the tour section, I just looked for the News section 'cause "Images and Words played in full" was kinda warranting a headline.
Title: Re: Unconfirmed yet: DT may play the whole I&W in full next year?
Post by: Lynxo on November 15, 2016, 03:45:58 AM
Seems it leaked to other places as well.

(https://scontent-arn2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/15037163_433425623447794_8912343307081034215_n.jpg?oh=4eb82b40d769e67ec28a61f7c78dfd86&oe=58BD4827)

I guess they're celebrating the 25 year anniversary?
Title: Re: Unconfirmed yet: DT may play the whole I&W in full next year?
Post by: MirrorMask on November 15, 2016, 03:47:42 AM
Ok, so it's official-not-official, since on FB and on DT.net there's not yet the formal announcement... kinda when the album title for The Astonishing was leaked and they had to announce it.
Title: Re: Unconfirmed yet: DT may play the whole I&W in full next year?
Post by: MrBoom_shack-a-lack on November 15, 2016, 04:01:07 AM
Yea just saw an add for it on FB.  :metal
Title: Re: Unconfirmed yet: DT may play the whole I&W in full next year?
Post by: Prog Snob on November 15, 2016, 05:16:43 AM
25 years would be July 7, 2017. I guess they figured they won't be on the road in July so they'll celebrate it earlier. Regardless, I wish I was heading to one of those shows. I will definitely get a bootleg of it. With the advanced notice, hopefully someone will plan to video tape it.
Title: Re: Unconfirmed yet: DT may play the whole I&W in full next year?
Post by: nikatapi on November 15, 2016, 05:18:24 AM
Can't wait to see how Mike plays Take The Time, if i'm not mistaken it's the only song from I&W that hasn't been performed live since he joined the band.
Title: Re: Unconfirmed yet: DT may play the whole I&W in full next year?
Post by: wasteland on November 15, 2016, 05:56:46 AM
No date announced in the UK yet. I hope they do announce some, or I'll be forced to book a plane back to Italy to attend. :D
Title: Re: Unconfirmed yet: DT may play the whole I&W in full next year?
Post by: TheOutlawXanadu on November 15, 2016, 07:01:20 AM
I hope they play it in the US as well!

I know this is going to be blasphemy to some, but do you guys think they should tune their instruments down to make James' life easier? Or maybe even do an alternate arrangement of some of the trickier songs? As boss as James is, most of the I&W tracks are impossible to sing for 20 year-olds, let alone 50 year-olds. :lol
Title: Re: Unconfirmed yet: DT may play the whole I&W in full next year?
Post by: BlobVanDam on November 15, 2016, 07:05:34 AM
I hope they play it in the US as well!

I know this is going to be blasphemy to some, but do you guys think they should tune their instruments down to make James' life easier? Or maybe even do an alternate arrangement of some of the trickier songs? As boss as James is, most of the I&W tracks are impossible to sing for 20 year-olds, let alone 50 year-olds. :lol

I'd rather JLB alter the melodies to suit. Better to just have the vocals wrong than the entire song wrong. :P
Title: Re: Unconfirmed yet: DT may play the whole I&W in full next year?
Post by: AboutToCrash on November 15, 2016, 07:10:24 AM
I hope they go down a couple of steps, James will struggle otherwise, Similar to what rush did for 2112. No shame in doing that. Mid range he sounds fantastic
Title: Re: Unconfirmed yet: DT may play the whole I&W in full next year?
Post by: Sir GuitarCozmo on November 15, 2016, 07:12:28 AM
Okay, I may have to relent and go see them again if this happens.  We'll see.
Title: Re: Unconfirmed yet: DT may play the whole I&W in full next year?
Post by: Zydar on November 15, 2016, 07:16:30 AM
I'm undecided about this. I've already seen them twice, and have really no need to see them again. But I&W is my favourite DT album, and they haven't played ANY song off it when I've seen them.
Title: Re: Unconfirmed yet: DT may play the whole I&W in full next year?
Post by: V_R11 on November 15, 2016, 07:42:02 AM
Love the idea, but they're going to have to make changes. No way JLB can hit the high note in LTL anymore, for example

If they don't bring this to Finland I might have to take a trip to sweden  :corn
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: bosk1 on November 15, 2016, 07:52:07 AM
Changed the thread title since it has been confirmed.
Title: Re: Unconfirmed yet: DT may play the whole I&W in full next year?
Post by: ? on November 15, 2016, 08:02:22 AM
If they don't bring this to Finland I might have to take a trip to sweden  :corn
Same here.
Title: Re: Unconfirmed yet: DT may play the whole I&W in full next year?
Post by: Enigmachine on November 15, 2016, 08:09:14 AM
No date announced in the UK yet. I hope they do announce some, or I'll be forced to book a plane back to Italy to attend. :D

I'm thinking the same thing.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: MirrorMask on November 15, 2016, 08:10:27 AM
Time to brag: I could go all snob on this and say "Eh, been there, done that"  ;D

I actually witnessed DT perform I&W in its entirety, back in 2007 for the 15th anniversary. It was the Gods of Metal festival, DT were second on the bill behind Heaven and Hell, and they started the show with Pull Me Under; nothing strange there, it was a festival, probably a best of setlist, it's only normal to start with your most famous song.

Then James after the song explained the anniversary, and the moment he announced they were performing the whole album, well, do I need to tell you the reaction of the crowd?  ;D

And for the record - he totally nailed the high note in Learning to Live  :metal
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: rumborak on November 15, 2016, 08:12:24 AM
I'd watch that if they come through Boston.

And thumbs up on the stepping down the songs idea. A vocal variation is OK when you play one I&W song, but for a whole album I'd rather have the original melodies.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: bosk1 on November 15, 2016, 08:31:25 AM
People also might want to keep in mind that there is often more time in the typical DT set than would be taken up by only playing Images & Words.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: hefdaddy42 on November 15, 2016, 08:52:12 AM
Well, this is exciting.  Hopefully, they bring that tour to the States as well!
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: nikatapi on November 15, 2016, 08:56:33 AM
So is there going to be a proper announcement from the band, or some kind of press-release?
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: zappafrank2112 on November 15, 2016, 10:32:14 AM
"Hey, guys, buddies, pals, how's about I do the set if you come through the NYC area?  And maybe Boston?  Hell, how about the whole northeast?

/Portnoy
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: Architeuthis on November 15, 2016, 10:38:37 AM
I'm all for it, this would be a fun show to see. It seems thought that the possibility of a dvd from TA might be dwindling. I could be wrong..
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: home on November 15, 2016, 10:39:49 AM
They just posted an update on Facebook, they are playing IaW along with fan favorites. I wasn't planning to go see them again but damn, this sounds really good :azn:
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: Panos_Ytsejam on November 15, 2016, 10:40:15 AM
it's official

https://www.facebook.com/dreamtheater/posts/10153896159262181:0

can't wait to travel to see them again!!
Title: Re: Unconfirmed yet: DT may play the whole I&W in full next year?
Post by: Implode on November 15, 2016, 10:40:24 AM
Can't wait to see how Mike plays Take The Time, if i'm not mistaken it's the only song from I&W that hasn't been performed live since he joined the band.

He'd probably play it exactly like it is in the album.  :P

And I'd totally love to see this. It's a shame it seems like it's only happening thousands of miles away.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: krands85 on November 15, 2016, 11:11:46 AM
Can't wait to see how Mike plays Take The Time, if i'm not mistaken it's the only song from I&W that hasn't been performed live since he joined the band.

He'd probably play it exactly like it is in the album.  :P
 
I hope Jordan decides to play the keyboard solo close to how it is on the album!
Title: Re: Unconfirmed yet: DT may play the whole I&W in full next year?
Post by: Mladen on November 15, 2016, 11:15:34 AM
I'd rather JLB alter the melodies to suit. Better to just have the vocals wrong than the entire song wrong. :P
Good point. And I already have to say it - poor James...  :lol
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: Mebert78 on November 15, 2016, 11:27:13 AM
I love that they put the sparrow in the I&W advertisement.  Love that sparrow.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: Adami on November 15, 2016, 11:29:19 AM
Can't wait to see how Mike plays Take The Time, if i'm not mistaken it's the only song from I&W that hasn't been performed live since he joined the band.

He'd probably play it exactly like it is in the album.  :P
 
I hope Jordan decides to play the keyboard solo close to how it is on the album!

Assuming they play it all to a click, I doubt he'll have the opportunity for an extended jam/keyboard solo.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: Kotowboy on November 15, 2016, 11:39:36 AM
"Hey, guys, buddies, pals, how's about I do the set if you come through the NYC area?  And maybe Boston?  Hell, how about the whole northeast?

/Portnoy

:lol

" I offered to join the band again to play Images IN FULL for the WHOLE TOUR but THEY had other ideas. Carpe Diem. I tried...  : ( "
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: Fritzinger on November 15, 2016, 11:42:11 AM
I will HAVE to see that. Very thrilled.
First thing that came to my mind was also that James might not be able to sing that stuff, especially for a whole tour. I wouldn't mind if they played the whole thing a bit lower.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: MirrorMask on November 15, 2016, 11:48:16 AM
It would be cool to have Don't Look Past Me thrown in, but the only guy who probably even remembers the song exists is not in the band since 2010.

A Change of Seasons as encore would be the icing on the cake  :metal I wonder if they will start or finish with Images and Words, maybe for James' voice it would be better to play it right away rather than having it in the second set.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: kingshmegland on November 15, 2016, 11:50:55 AM
Time to brag: I could go all snob on this and say "Eh, been there, done that"  ;D

I actually witnessed DT perform I&W in its entirety, back in 2007 for the 15th anniversary. It was the Gods of Metal festival, DT were second on the bill behind Heaven and Hell, and they started the show with Pull Me Under; nothing strange there, it was a festival, probably a best of setlist, it's only normal to start with your most famous song.

Then James after the song explained the anniversary, and the moment he announced they were performing the whole album, well, do I need to tell you the reaction of the crowd?  ;D

And for the record - he totally nailed the high note in Learning to Live  :metal

It will be 24 years since I saw them play every song in May of 1993 in Warwick R.I.  I would love to see them play it in order.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: Dublagent66 on November 15, 2016, 12:07:52 PM
Definitely an album that should be played in its entirety.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: Prog Snob on November 15, 2016, 12:32:32 PM
It would be cool to have Don't Look Past Me thrown in, but the only guy who probably even remembers the song exists is not in the band since 2010.

A Change of Seasons as encore would be the icing on the cake  :metal I wonder if they will start or finish with Images and Words, maybe for James' voice it would be better to play it right away rather than having it in the second set.

They should throw in a couple of other songs from that era, too, like the ones you mentioned, like TLF.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: changing_seasons on November 15, 2016, 01:24:13 PM
This sounds amazing! Can James really sing all of I&W though?
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: Architeuthis on November 15, 2016, 01:27:28 PM
This sounds amazing! Can James really sing all of I&W though?
If he can sing all of TA, he can sing all of I&W...
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: Aythesryche on November 15, 2016, 01:28:41 PM
This is awesome. I have no idea where I'll be in Europe when these shows come around, but I will go to the closest one I'm in proximity to. If that ones sold out, I'll go to the next closest one. If not that one, then, then...
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: MirrorMask on November 15, 2016, 01:30:12 PM
They come to my hometown on a saturday. Really, the only way this can get even better is if they offer me the ticket for free  ;D
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: badger on November 15, 2016, 01:35:19 PM
good news :metal
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: gzarruk on November 15, 2016, 01:49:03 PM
Looks like the time for my 1st post on the forum has come. I've been following the threads for a while, but never decided to post untill now.


Don't know if any of you guys saw this, but Mangini tweeted about transcribing two monster songs for the 2017 tour, and I'm pretty sure that "monster" refers to long/epic songs. I first thought about ACOS and/or Octavarium, but now they've confirmed the IAW tour, i'm almost sure they'll play ACOS.


I'll leave the link to his tweet here: https://twitter.com/ManginiMike/status/798421746638618624
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: Dream Team on November 15, 2016, 01:57:13 PM
JLB is probably gonna feel pressured to sing the original notes. Hope common sense takes over, hate to see him injure his vocal cords again.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: Dublagent66 on November 15, 2016, 02:06:22 PM
This sounds amazing! Can James really sing all of I&W though?
If he can sing all of TA, he can sing all of I&W...

Not necessarily.  I think he meant that I&W words has more higher range notes than TA.  JLB has toned down his range quite a bit lately.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: Architeuthis on November 15, 2016, 02:49:28 PM
This sounds amazing! Can James really sing all of I&W though?
If he can sing all of TA, he can sing all of I&W...

Not necessarily.  I think he meant that I&W words has more higher range notes than TA.  JLB has toned down his range quite a bit lately.
There some moments on TA that have very high range notes. That whole album is like a vocal marathon, it's amazing JLB pulls it off. Images and words ain't no walk in the park either. :metal
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: ResultsMayVary on November 15, 2016, 05:20:51 PM
Holy fuck, this better be coming to the US at some point next year.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: chrisbDTM on November 15, 2016, 06:01:02 PM
Please come to the US. I'm skipping this current astonishing run but I'd like to see them play other stuff especially all I&W


Also I'm curious to see how JLB holds up. 2:47ish "pensive fear" section of take the time is gonna be difficult
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: KevShmev on November 15, 2016, 06:07:42 PM
Very smart business move. They have to be aware of the mixed reaction to TA, especially with ticket sales not that great overall lately, so instead of taking time off and then doing the next album, in which some of those fans could slowly slip away from them, they are doing this, which will get a lot of those fans back into the fold right away.  Very smart.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: Jester on November 15, 2016, 06:17:25 PM
I guess if they are going to play an album in its entirety, that'd be the one to pick.

TBH, their catalog is so large now that it would be very hard for them to put together a set I wouldn't enjoy.  I've basically seen this already, so I'd imagine this is more of a treat for the fans that weren't old enough to see them in the early 90s.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: TAC on November 15, 2016, 06:34:35 PM
WOW!
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: Darkstarshades on November 15, 2016, 06:59:49 PM
Again, it's spoiled European fans, just like in 2015 :(
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: BlobVanDam on November 15, 2016, 10:17:42 PM
This sounds amazing! Can James really sing all of I&W though?
If he can sing all of TA, he can sing all of I&W...

Not necessarily.  I think he meant that I&W words has more higher range notes than TA.  JLB has toned down his range quite a bit lately.
There some moments on TA that have very high range notes. That whole album is like a vocal marathon, it's amazing JLB pulls it off. Images and words ain't no walk in the park either. :metal

TA is no comparison vocally to IaW, and that's not meant as a dig at TA's vocals.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: Darkstarshades on November 15, 2016, 10:20:57 PM
There are some notes in TA which are higher than most in I&W.

But I&W is, on average, higher than TA, still, TA has waay much more singing time.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: BlobVanDam on November 15, 2016, 10:46:04 PM
TA occasionally goes higher than the majority of IaW? I'd say that supports IaW being the tougher.
And not only is IaW on average higher, but the phrasing is tougher too. On top of the extra effort of singing higher, it also requires even more endurance on top of that to sing longer passages with more held notes. TA does have a higher percentage of singing in each song, but that should be relatively straightforward for a skilled vocalist like JLB with his trained technique. It's singing in his current natural range with more considerate phrasing.

I agree both albums present their challenges, but TA was written with present day JLB's strengths and abilities in mind. IaW was not. I can't wait to hear how he pulls it off.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: Mosh on November 15, 2016, 10:58:04 PM
Not sure how that is even up for debate. JLB in 1992 was much younger and could hit higher notes more consistently. He would be the first one to tell you that. The Astonishing was an impressive vocal performance but lets not get crazy here.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: Ben_Jamin on November 15, 2016, 11:17:06 PM
James was on fire tonight.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: Adami on November 15, 2016, 11:20:12 PM
James was on fire tonight.

He pulled a Hetfield? Hope he's okay.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: Ben_Jamin on November 15, 2016, 11:27:56 PM
James was on fire tonight.

He pulled a Hetfield? Hope he's okay.

Haha...He killed it on vocals. He even forgot the lyrics to Last Farewell, which was OK.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: Plasmastrike on November 16, 2016, 12:19:48 AM
That's pretty exciting news!!! If this tour finds its way to the usa, i'll definitely get some friends together and go. It would be really cool to me if they played without the click track or whatever for this tour. A guy can dream right?
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: MirrorMask on November 16, 2016, 01:06:22 AM
Very smart business move. They have to be aware of the mixed reaction to TA, especially with ticket sales not that great overall lately, so instead of taking time off and then doing the next album, in which some of those fans could slowly slip away from them, they are doing this, which will get a lot of those fans back into the fold right away.  Very smart.

Yeah, the thought crossed my mind as well... probably it was in the planning all along but it almost feel like "You didn't like The Astonishing as the entirety of the show? ok, fine, we give you our classic album in full, happy now?"
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: Architeuthis on November 16, 2016, 02:28:58 AM
Very smart business move. They have to be aware of the mixed reaction to TA, especially with ticket sales not that great overall lately, so instead of taking time off and then doing the next album, in which some of those fans could slowly slip away from them, they are doing this, which will get a lot of those fans back into the fold right away.  Very smart.

Yeah, the thought crossed my mind as well... probably it was in the planning all along but it almost feel like "You didn't like The Astonishing as the entirety of the show? ok, fine, we give you our classic album in full, happy now?"
        :lol.         Everything is never enough!   
I doubt that's the case, but a funny possibility. I'm sure they are itching to have some fun and play some stuff off their other albums, and Rock!  Smart business move too.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: Ben_Jamin on November 16, 2016, 02:45:02 AM
This night was the night.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: Fritzinger on November 16, 2016, 04:07:49 AM
Do you guys think they'll do Another Day in a stripped down version so James could sing certain passages an octave lower?

Also, I hope they play the Chaos In Motion Version of Surrounded ;) But I think all of that jamming/making songs longer stuff was Portnoy's thing.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: wolfking on November 16, 2016, 04:29:04 AM
This sounds amazing! Can James really sing all of I&W though?
If he can sing all of TA, he can sing all of I&W...

I don't quite get this.  One is almost 25 years older than the other for starters.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: ariich on November 16, 2016, 05:21:13 AM
This would be more exciting if they hadn't already done it for the 15th anniversary.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: Thematt202 on November 16, 2016, 05:29:55 AM
Meh.  I'm gutted that there's not gonna be a proper UK tour for The Astonishing.  Very sad that I'll probably never get to experience the show live.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: Lynxo on November 16, 2016, 06:02:27 AM
This would be more exciting if they hadn't already done it for the 15th anniversary.
Yeah, that's what's confusing to me. How often are they going to celebrate the same album?

...having said that, I might be interested in going. :lol As someone already said, this is a really smart business move. I was so disappointed in TA that I thought I would skip them the next tour but upon hearing this, I was interested again.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: Ad134 on November 16, 2016, 06:48:50 AM
Meh.  I'm gutted that there's not gonna be a proper UK tour for The Astonishing.  Very sad that I'll probably never get to experience the show live.

Huh? The first show of the tour was London!
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: TAC on November 16, 2016, 07:56:48 AM
I&W is one of the Top 3 Vocal Performances these ears have ever heard.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: red barchetta on November 16, 2016, 09:13:25 AM
JLB is probably gonna feel pressured to sing the original notes. Hope common sense takes over, hate to see him injure his vocal cords again.

I've been thinking about that for some time since I heard an old live version of Another day a few months ago.  I don't think they have ever done it but they could possibly think of playing some songs in a lower key.  Rush has done it for many years now.  All of side one of 2112, Freewill and others have been played in a lower key.  Geddy can keep up with those songs, still he sings pretty high for his age and the songs sound very well for our ears.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: bosk1 on November 16, 2016, 09:21:03 AM
I agree both albums present their challenges, but TA was written with present day JLB's strengths and abilities in mind. IaW was not.

I wouldn't even say I&W was written with 1992 JLB's strengths and abilities in mind.  :lol  They basically wrote what they wrote.  But at that stage in their development, they had not yet really put much effort into figuring out how to construct vocals in a way to help out the singer.  Another Day and Take the Time both have extended passages that are close to impossible for just about any singer to pull off live, not only in terms of range, but also in terms of power and breathing space.  And Metropolis is tricky as well just before the instrumental break. 
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: BlobVanDam on November 16, 2016, 09:37:29 AM
I agree both albums present their challenges, but TA was written with present day JLB's strengths and abilities in mind. IaW was not.

I wouldn't even say I&W was written with 1992 JLB's strengths and abilities in mind.  :lol  They basically wrote what they wrote.  But at that stage in their development, they had not yet really put much effort into figuring out how to construct vocals in a way to help out the singer.  Another Day and Take the Time both have extended passages that are close to impossible for just about any singer to pull off live, not only in terms of range, but also in terms of power and breathing space.  And Metropolis is tricky as well just before the instrumental break. 

Very true! They were lucky to hire such an insane vocalist who could pull it off so well, but even 1992 JLB wasn't infallible live either.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: hefdaddy42 on November 16, 2016, 09:45:07 AM
I agree both albums present their challenges, but TA was written with present day JLB's strengths and abilities in mind. IaW was not.

I wouldn't even say I&W was written with 1992 JLB's strengths and abilities in mind.  :lol  They basically wrote what they wrote.  But at that stage in their development, they had not yet really put much effort into figuring out how to construct vocals in a way to help out the singer.  Another Day and Take the Time both have extended passages that are close to impossible for just about any singer to pull off live, not only in terms of range, but also in terms of power and breathing space.  And Metropolis is tricky as well just before the instrumental break.
I agree.

Not as a comparison to JLB by any stretch, but I can sing most of the stuff he sings with DT.  But those parts you mention in Another Day and Take the Time both almost make me pass out/rupture internal organs.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: OpenYourEyes311 on November 16, 2016, 10:02:12 AM
This would be more exciting if they hadn't already done it for the 15th anniversary.

Yes, and the 15th was also a Europe only thing as well. Maybe they'll realize this and bring it Stateside!

(I/we won't shut up about this until we have definitive answers one way or another)
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: bosk1 on November 16, 2016, 10:06:26 AM
Well, for right now at least, it has only been announced for Europe.  So I wouldn't expect it to be for the U.S. as well unless and until we hear otherwise.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: robin5749 on November 16, 2016, 11:25:59 AM
can we call this be kind to james tour, very excited about it but don't want to hear him straining again, he still has a beautiful middle range and occasional high but not the whole gig.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: MirrorMask on November 16, 2016, 11:46:23 AM
Any guesses about if Images and Words will start the show, or will be saved for the second set? they probably should start with it to let James go through the songs with a fresher voice...
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: ? on November 16, 2016, 11:56:19 AM
Any guesses about if Images and Words will start the show, or will be saved for the second set? they probably should start with it to let James go through the songs with a fresher voice...
I hope they'll do it in the second set - when they kicked off last year's anniversary set with Afterlife, Metropolis and Caught in a Web, James' performance was pretty rough, at least in the Wacken stream and the Helsinki show I attended. On the other hand, when they played all those Awake songs in the second set on Along for the Ride tour, he nailed them, so I'd argue that it takes some time for his voice to warm up.

I also agree with those hoping for downtuning - even if James could hit those notes in the original keys, transposing would lessen the strain on his voice and help him preserve it.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: CrimsonSunrise on November 16, 2016, 11:59:04 AM
One of my only DT bucket list items is to see ACOS in it's entirety live.  Seen them a dozen times, but never ACOS :(  Like some have mentioned, it would seem a fitting finale for an I&W's show.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: bosk1 on November 16, 2016, 12:01:04 PM
I wouldn't rule that out.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: nikatapi on November 16, 2016, 12:08:16 PM
Any guesses about if Images and Words will start the show, or will be saved for the second set? they probably should start with it to let James go through the songs with a fresher voice...


My guess:

1st Set: Best of spanning the whole discography
2nd Set: I&W
encore: ACOS
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: gzarruk on November 16, 2016, 12:21:21 PM
Any guesses about if Images and Words will start the show, or will be saved for the second set? they probably should start with it to let James go through the songs with a fresher voice...


My guess:

1st Set: Best of spanning the whole discography
2nd Set: I&W
encore: ACOS


That would be amazing!

If we count all songs from that era, do you think they could play Eve, TLF and DLPM as well?


Also, I think they should, at least, add a couple instrumentals to the set, so James can rest his voice a little more during the show.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: MirrorMask on November 16, 2016, 12:23:30 PM
Any guesses about if Images and Words will start the show, or will be saved for the second set? they probably should start with it to let James go through the songs with a fresher voice...


My guess:

1st Set: Best of spanning the whole discography
2nd Set: I&W
encore: ACOS

Where do I have to sign for this?
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: Dublagent66 on November 16, 2016, 01:27:42 PM
Would be awesome but very difficult to nail down that 1st set and still stay within the time limit depending on song length.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: Thematt202 on November 16, 2016, 01:35:30 PM
Meh.  I'm gutted that there's not gonna be a proper UK tour for The Astonishing.  Very sad that I'll probably never get to experience the show live.

Huh? The first show of the tour was London!

Yup.  One venue in London isn't exactly a UK tour though is it?
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: bosk1 on November 16, 2016, 02:22:56 PM
Any guesses about if Images and Words will start the show, or will be saved for the second set? they probably should start with it to let James go through the songs with a fresher voice...


My guess:

1st Set: Best of spanning the whole discography
2nd Set: I&W
encore: ACOS

If I had to guess, I would say that probably isn't too far off.  Except that I think the "1st set" will probably be about half TA songs.  But that is purely a guess.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: hefdaddy42 on November 16, 2016, 02:31:19 PM
Meh.  I'm gutted that there's not gonna be a proper UK tour for The Astonishing.  Very sad that I'll probably never get to experience the show live.

Huh? The first show of the tour was London!

Yup.  One venue in London isn't exactly a UK tour though is it?
They never do a UK tour.  They do a European tour.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: TAC on November 16, 2016, 02:33:34 PM
It's an EU tour. They're skipping England. ;D




























Sorry.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: RaiseTheKnife on November 16, 2016, 02:39:40 PM
Good chance To Live Forever might finds its way into the setlist.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: TAC on November 16, 2016, 02:42:21 PM
Good chance To Live Forever might finds its way into the setlist.

And Don't Look Past Me.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: bosk1 on November 16, 2016, 03:04:46 PM
Good chance To Live Forever might finds its way into the setlist.

And Don't Look Past Me.
Nobody is.  They were just throwing out song suggestions.  Calm down.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: TAC on November 16, 2016, 03:06:47 PM
Good chance To Live Forever might finds its way into the setlist.

And Don't Look Past Me.
Nobody is.  They were just throwing out song suggestions.  Calm down.

Sure, I'll calm down. It's only a matter of time.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: bosk1 on November 16, 2016, 03:12:46 PM
On an unrelated note, at the job I started last year, we get regular emails from our Technical Assistance Center.  Several times a day, I have momentary confusion as I see emails from "TAC" pop up on my screen, often when I am on DTF. 
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: hefdaddy42 on November 16, 2016, 03:16:49 PM
TAC doesn't know how to email.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: erwinrafael on November 16, 2016, 03:25:37 PM
This would be more exciting if they hadn't already done it for the 15th anniversary.

Well, they did not play any song from it in the last two album tours, so this would be a treat to many fans.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: TAC on November 16, 2016, 03:26:26 PM
TAC doesn't know how to email.

 :rollin

So true!
(http://s2.quickmeme.com/img/06/068d85adaee4952818617906e0d035e97404d6a572247ef8ad4b006b31baafc8.jpg)
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: RaiseTheKnife on November 16, 2016, 04:14:45 PM
Good chance To Live Forever might finds its way into the setlist.

And Don't Look Past Me.

That would truly be a special anniversary.  Unlikely, but awesome!
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: Darkstarshades on November 16, 2016, 06:06:34 PM
This would be more exciting if they hadn't already done it for the 15th anniversary.

I didn't know about DT's existence 10 years ago, neither did many fans. Awesome by me.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: Madman Shepherd on November 16, 2016, 07:14:49 PM
Very smart business move. They have to be aware of the mixed reaction to TA, especially with ticket sales not that great overall lately, so instead of taking time off and then doing the next album, in which some of those fans could slowly slip away from them, they are doing this, which will get a lot of those fans back into the fold right away.  Very smart.

I hate to say it because I've been one of MM-Era DT's biggest supporters and ADTOE is my all time favorite DT record, but if they didn't put this Astonishing stuff to rest, they may have done irreversible damage to my fandom.  I absolutely had no desire to see them.  I actually left halfway through The Astonishing show I saw.  I really am not that excited for any new DT material. 

This announcement does have me excited though and I am not even really a fan of playing albums in their entirety.  I would much rather have a badass setlist of varieties but hey, I&W is a great album (not their best) but it is definitely worth another three hour trip and 70 dollar ticket. 

As far LaBrie's performance...Anothery Day on the Happy Holidays album only had a line or two where he altered the melody and I'll be damned if that isn't my favorite performance of that song.  We'll see but hey, at least they caught my interest again. 
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: Prog Snob on November 16, 2016, 08:22:30 PM
Good chance To Live Forever might finds its way into the setlist.

And Don't Look Past Me.
Nobody is.  They were just throwing out song suggestions.  Calm down.

Sure, I'll calm down. It's only a matter of time.

Sure, it's always all about You, Not Me.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: Evai on November 16, 2016, 10:45:53 PM
Y'know, Take The Time might sound the best it's ever sounded live, since James can back himself up in the chorus now.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: sfam2112 on November 17, 2016, 01:05:42 AM
Very smart business move. They have to be aware of the mixed reaction to TA, especially with ticket sales not that great overall lately, so instead of taking time off and then doing the next album, in which some of those fans could slowly slip away from them, they are doing this, which will get a lot of those fans back into the fold right away.  Very smart.

Dream Theater presents The Apology Live!

(sorry)  :biggrin:
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: devieira73 on November 17, 2016, 05:56:18 AM
Looks like the time for my 1st post on the forum has come. I've been following the threads for a while, but never decided to post untill now.


Don't know if any of you guys saw this, but Mangini tweeted about transcribing two monster songs for the 2017 tour, and I'm pretty sure that "monster" refers to long/epic songs. I first thought about ACOS and/or Octavarium, but now they've confirmed the IAW tour, i'm almost sure they'll play ACOS.


I'll leave the link to his tweet here: https://twitter.com/ManginiMike/status/798421746638618624

Maybe it will costs too much time in the setlist, but if MM is talking about 2 "monster" tracks, I think that probably these are 2 songs on the 20 minutes (or more) mark. And MM already transcribed TCoT. So, maybe ACoS (I guess it's a safe bet) and...Octavarium or ITPoE or ... A Mind Beside Itself ;) or... 6Degress :omg:

Or maybe the second monster track could be around 15 minute mark, which leaves open to a lot of "small epics" not played by MM, like Voices, Lines in the Sand, Home or ITNoG. We'll see.

Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: Dublagent66 on November 17, 2016, 07:49:00 AM

Dream Theater presents The Apology Live!


Sounds like a good title for their next album.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: gzarruk on November 17, 2016, 08:11:58 AM
Don't know if any of you guys saw this, but Mangini tweeted about transcribing two monster songs for the 2017 tour, and I'm pretty sure that "monster" refers to long/epic songs. I first thought about ACOS and/or Octavarium, but now they've confirmed the IAW tour, i'm almost sure they'll play ACOS.


I'll leave the link to his tweet here: https://twitter.com/ManginiMike/status/798421746638618624

Maybe it will costs too much time in the setlist, but if MM is talking about 2 "monster" tracks, I think that probably these are 2 songs on the 20 minutes (or more) mark. And MM already transcribed TCoT. So, maybe ACoS (I guess it's a safe bet) and...Octavarium or ITPoE or ... A Mind Beside Itself ;) or... 6Degress :omg:

Or maybe the second monster track could be around 15 minute mark, which leaves open to a lot of "small epics" not played by MM, like Voices, Lines in the Sand, Home or ITNoG. We'll see.


It depends on what will the other set (not the full IAW album) be. Like you said, ACOS is a safe bet  :tup

I remember I read an interview with Jordan where he said he wants to play more of SDOIT again, but I don't think they'll play the whole 2nd disc.
Also, James said on another interview, before TA was released, that he wanted to sing Take The Time, TMOLS and Disappear again, so we might get those tracks as well.

ITPOE is one of my favorite DT epics, and very underrated imo, and it would be unreal if they played it, but I thin it's very unlikely  :-\
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: don_waka on November 17, 2016, 09:51:20 AM
Was checking my spam folder and found this

Quote
Images, Words & Beyond
Pre-sale and VIP Tickets Start Today!
Dream Theater embarks soon on their monumental European headline tour, celebrating the 25th anniversary of their milestone album, Images & Words. Each performance will include an unparalleled live set of "Images & Words" in its entirety, along with fan favorites from their deep, widely-acclaimed catalogue. Advance tickets and VIP packages, which include a meet and greet, photo with the band, and other exclusive merchandise go on sale today, Thursday, November 17th at 10am local time. Be a part of this historic event!

(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/er0jZv_0r-g/maxresdefault.jpg)
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: Bertielee on November 17, 2016, 10:07:23 AM

Dream Theater presents The Apology Live!


Sounds like a good title for their next album.

Apologise to who? To those who didn't like the album? There is still a lot of people who have liked it (and yes, I got the irony).

B.Lee
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: Darkstarshades on November 17, 2016, 12:54:30 PM
Apology to a bunch of people who miss "BY THE GRACE OF GOD ABOVE EVERYONE SURVIVED ROOOOAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH"


Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: Dublagent66 on November 17, 2016, 01:37:28 PM

Dream Theater presents The Apology Live!


Sounds like a good title for their next album.

Apologise to who? To those who didn't like the album? There is still a lot of people who have liked it (and yes, I got the irony).

B.Lee

"Now wait a minute man.  That's not how it is.  You must be confused."
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: JediKnight1969 on November 17, 2016, 02:07:28 PM
Looks like the time for my 1st post on the forum has come. I've been following the threads for a while, but never decided to post untill now.


Don't know if any of you guys saw this, but Mangini tweeted about transcribing two monster songs for the 2017 tour, and I'm pretty sure that "monster" refers to long/epic songs. I first thought about ACOS and/or Octavarium, but now they've confirmed the IAW tour, i'm almost sure they'll play ACOS.


I'll leave the link to his tweet here: https://twitter.com/ManginiMike/status/798421746638618624

My guess?

-I&W complete
-A change of seasons

Encore:

-Octavarium.

Hell yeah!
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: gzarruk on November 17, 2016, 02:52:16 PM
Looks like the time for my 1st post on the forum has come. I've been following the threads for a while, but never decided to post untill now.


Don't know if any of you guys saw this, but Mangini tweeted about transcribing two monster songs for the 2017 tour, and I'm pretty sure that "monster" refers to long/epic songs. I first thought about ACOS and/or Octavarium, but now they've confirmed the IAW tour, i'm almost sure they'll play ACOS.


I'll leave the link to his tweet here: https://twitter.com/ManginiMike/status/798421746638618624

My guess?

-I&W complete
-A change of seasons

Encore:

-Octavarium.

Hell yeah!


That would be an AMAZING setlist. I just feel bad for James if he has to sing all the high notes on IAW, ACOS and then try to sing "Trapped inside this Octavariuuuuuuuuuuuuum" with that high note there :eek
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: Dublagent66 on November 17, 2016, 03:05:40 PM
I think James knows better than to try to sing all those high notes on tour.  Any singer will tell you that it can't be sustained show after show.  James is pretty good at improvising those sections of songs in order to save his voice.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: Dream Team on November 17, 2016, 03:36:47 PM
Apology to a bunch of people who miss "BY THE GRACE OF GOD ABOVE EVERYONE SURVIVED ROOOOAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH"

 :rollin  :rollin yup, so much this.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: TheOutlawXanadu on November 17, 2016, 04:00:44 PM
The fanboi in me will always be a  :sadpanda: because DT didn't do an Astonishing/Greatest Hits tour after the first Astonishing leg. I think that would have been so awesome and they would have had better attendance. I also think it would have made a ton of sense considering it was basically their 30th anniversary.

That said, I'm sure they'll do something like that in the future, and The Astonishing is one of my favorite albums of theirs, so I'll live. :metal
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: RaiseTheKnife on November 17, 2016, 04:10:47 PM
Here's my recipe for a special one-off U.S. show:

Set One:  I&W complete:
               Pull Me Under (with Erotomania instrumental section)
               Another Day (with Jay Beckenstein)
               Take the Time
               Surrounded
               Metropolis
               Under a Glass Moon
               Wait For Sleep (with Kevin Moore)
               Learning to Live

Set Two:  I&W Selections from ADTOE (haha!):
               On the Backs of Angels
               Lost Not Forgotten
               Outcry
               Far From Heaven
               Breaking All Illusions
               To Live Forever
               Surrender to Reason
               Our New World

Encore:    A Change of Seasons (1993 version)
           
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: bosk1 on November 17, 2016, 04:11:02 PM
I hear you, TOX.  That press sampler they sent out really had a great selection of tracks that gave a good overview of The Astonishing (even if it didn't really give a good feel for the story).  Using that as a basis and making a couple of additions, they could have put together a really tight TA set that they could have paired with a hits set to really generate a lot of interest.  Oh well.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: CDrice on November 17, 2016, 05:04:39 PM
Here's my recipe for a special one-off U.S. show:

Set One:  I&W complete:
               Pull Me Under (with Raw Dog instrumental section)
               Another Day (with Jay Beckenstein)
               Take the Time
               Surrounded
               Metropolis
               Under a Glass Moon
               Wait For Sleep (with Mike Portnoy)
               Learning to Live
           

I felt like you were missing what the fans really want, so I took the liberty to slightly alter your first set.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: RaiseTheKnife on November 17, 2016, 05:28:36 PM
Thank you CDRice, your changes are more appropriate, likely and tasteful.   :lol
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: Pettor on November 18, 2016, 01:20:09 AM
Wow, they are doing 3 concerts in Sweden one being very close to me for the first time. Not really sure why Sweden got all Nordic attention, hope Finland and Norway get some concerts as well :)

So excited for this. I liked TA but felt very hungry for normal DT concert since the last where they celebrated Awake and Scenes was completely insane! Best concert I've seen! Now it's I&W with possibility for a 20+ epic ... I don't find the words to describe the excitement that sentence gives me :omg:

Edit: Actually if I hear 8V again I will be forever grateful ... something I was already previous time I heard 8V. ACOS is pretty damn fine as well.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: Fritzinger on November 18, 2016, 02:18:13 AM
I'll be in Prag. I think ACOS is a good guess, also I think they'll play at least one or two songs from TA, maybe Our New World and A New Beginning (two songs which imho are working well outside the musical concept of the album). Maybe they'll play some of the proggier FII stuff, since it's also its 20th anniversary. Lines In The Sand for example, because they played Trial Of Tears on Along FT Ride. I'd love Hell's kitchen before Lines In The Sand ;)
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: thedrumanimal on November 18, 2016, 02:39:38 AM
Hey guys, I have a problem with my ticket order for Hamburg, Germany. I ordered yesterday (that was the presale, right?) and you ordered directly via the website from DT. When you click the same link today, you are forwarded to Eventim.

My concern is that I did not receive any confirmation mail or anything. Did anyone else had the same problem? Any suggestions? There is a support link, I already dropped them an email...
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: Thematt202 on November 18, 2016, 04:36:07 AM
Meh.  I'm gutted that there's not gonna be a proper UK tour for The Astonishing.  Very sad that I'll probably never get to experience the show live.

Huh? The first show of the tour was London!

Yup.  One venue in London isn't exactly a UK tour though is it?
They never do a UK tour.  They do a European tour.

They usually play several UK dates at venues across the country.  This time they played in London only, so I kinda thought they'd be back later in the year to do the usual run of venues (Leeds, Manchester, Birmingham, Glasgow, etc). 

Ah well, I'll make damn sure I catch the tour for The Astonishing Part 2 in 2018...
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: noxon on November 18, 2016, 05:15:07 AM
Well, they explicitly stated that the first leg of the european tour was a very exclusive tour hitting only a select few cities. They said that if you wanted to see them, you should make travel plans...
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: The Curious Orange on November 18, 2016, 05:20:11 AM
Just the one UK date would be fine with me - so long as I get tickets for it! But it would be nice if they could see their way to a few more UK venues - they are playing 3 dates in Sweden, hardly the most populous of countries.

Travelling to Europe is expensive, both in terms of cost and time off work. America may be massive, but it's relatively cheap to get around.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: Pettor on November 18, 2016, 06:25:38 AM
Yeah the Sweden thingy is confusing. Dream Theater is popular here but not much more than others. Partille Arena where they will play is a concert/sports hall I never heard of before and I live here. It looks good, just that Gothenburg is the big city and Partille just outside. But I would go to UK/Germany to see this and Sweden is cold and nice country, so please visit us  ;D
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: Nofire on November 18, 2016, 07:50:32 AM
Many of you are talking as if this is going to be "an evening with". Has this been confirmed? Just got my tickets for Stockholm and I can't wait!!!
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: mikemangioy on November 18, 2016, 08:31:30 AM
Many of you are talking as if this is going to be "an evening with". Has this been confirmed? Just got my tickets for Stockholm and I can't wait!!!

Yeah it is "An Evening With". One set is I&W, the other set, miscellaneous stuff. At least I think so. They have no opening act, so...
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: MirrorMask on November 18, 2016, 08:51:57 AM
Yup, I've read elswhere it was a 3 hour show.

90 minutes or slightly less of other stuff
60 minutes of I&W

30 minutes of encore, be it ACoS or more songs  ;D
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: Nofire on November 18, 2016, 09:05:17 AM
Yup, I've read elswhere it was a 3 hour show.

90 minutes or slightly less of other stuff
60 minutes of I&W

30 minutes of encore, be it ACoS or more songs  ;D

Aaaaaaw yessss! Here's hoping for TGP/TDS combo they did on the 8VM tour. Not making the effort to see them in Stockholm then still haunts me.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: OpenYourEyes311 on November 18, 2016, 01:43:45 PM
Interesting thought with TGP/TDS combo... they could easily fit the whole 12SS into the set. Could even be something ridiculous like ...

Octavarium
12 Step Suite
-Intermission-
Images And Words
-Encore-
A Change of Seasons

Which made me think... anyone else think maybe they're doing this I&W tour to combat MP's Shattered Fortress next year, which could potentially take away ticket sales from them if they didn't do something cool themselves?
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: Fritzinger on November 18, 2016, 01:50:45 PM
Playing the Twelve Step suite would such a kick in MPs balls and very childish I think. Although I would love to compare the two versions!
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: goo-goo on November 18, 2016, 02:17:34 PM
I'm not sure if DT would play the 12 step suite, ACOS, or The Best of Times as it seems those songs are very personal to MP.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: TheCountOfNYC on November 18, 2016, 02:32:30 PM
I'm not sure if DT would play the 12 step suite, ACOS, or The Best of Times as it seems those songs are very personal to MP.

I don't think ACoS matters much since MP had said that it's about more than his mother. But I agree about the 12SS and absolutely about TBoT.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: Fritzinger on November 18, 2016, 02:33:47 PM
I think they'll never play The Best Of Times, but ACOS seems fine to me. Plus, they have played parts of the 12 Step Suite. But I mean, now that Portnoy will play it with another band this year, it would be kind of an insult to do the same at the same time. Almost as if they were trying to steal his fans away or something.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: Adami on November 18, 2016, 02:53:33 PM
I have no idea why they'd play the 12SS. Not even because of Mike, but because it makes no sense logistically.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: Ben_Jamin on November 18, 2016, 03:00:47 PM
I think we'll finally get the bigger picture live
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: gzarruk on November 18, 2016, 03:49:14 PM
I have no idea why they'd play the 12SS. Not even because of Mike, but because it makes no sense logistically.


I agree, it makes no sense at all. They have played two songs from the suite, but just as DT songs they wanted to play. They definitely have no interest on playing the whole thing from start to finish, that was a Portnoy thing, same way with medleys and covers.

Also, if they did the 12SS, that would bring even MORE comparisons between DT and MP's SF after he performs next year and lots of people would go nuts on either side.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: BlobVanDam on November 18, 2016, 08:33:53 PM
Yeah, I don't see them playing the 12SS in one go, unfortunately. Hopefully they'll finally bring back out TGP or any of the other songs, but given how much time they're already devoting to an entire album, I don't see them devoting another whole hour to the 12SS as an unadvertised afterthought.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: IDontNotDoThings on November 18, 2016, 08:36:50 PM
2017 is also the 20th anniversary of Falling Into Infinity, the 15th anniversary of Six Degrees Of Inner Turbulence, & the 10th anniversary of Systematic Chaos, so my guess is that the extra set will have a notable amount of songs from those albums.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: TheAtliator on November 18, 2016, 08:38:57 PM
Setlist time!

Surrender To Reason
Constant Motion
The Gift of Music
Blind Faith
Only a Matter of Time
Piano Solo/ Three Days
Outcry
Octavarium

Pull Me Under
Another Day
Take The Time
Surrounded
Metropolis Part 1
Under a Glass Moon
Wait for Sleep
Learning to Live

The Enemy Inside
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: Cool Chris on November 18, 2016, 08:55:02 PM
I am normally meh on "It's the xx anniversary of this album, let's play the whole thing!" shows, but this is one I would definitely sign up to go to.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: Ben_Jamin on November 18, 2016, 09:25:16 PM
What if they just played all the Images and Words album spread across the set, but in order. Open with Pull Me Under, end the set with Learning to Live.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: KevShmev on November 18, 2016, 09:31:00 PM
What if they just played all the Images and Words album spread across the set, but in order. Open with Pull Me Under, end the set with Learning to Live.

They won't do it that way, but they ought to, because it would be awesome.

Open Set 1 with the first three songs.
End Set 1 with Surrounded and Metropolis.
Open Set 2 with Under a Glass Moon.
End Set 2 with the last two songs.

 :metal
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: Mladen on November 19, 2016, 03:55:30 AM
Set list time, eh?

1. In the presence of enemies part 1
2. This dying soul
3. Build me up, break me down
4. Home
5. Lines in the sand
6. Wither
7. Surrender to reason
8. Our new world
---
9. Pull me under
10. Another day
11. Take the time
12. Surrounded
13. Metropolis part 1
14. Under a glass moon
15. 1Wait for sleep
16. Learning to live
----
17. Octavarium

This is neither a wishlist nor a prediction. I'm just throwing it out there for fun.  ;D Although some bits of it are fairly realistic.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: Fritzinger on November 19, 2016, 04:17:49 AM
What if they just played all the Images and Words album spread across the set, but in order. Open with Pull Me Under, end the set with Learning to Live.

They won't do it that way, but they ought to, because it would be awesome.

Open Set 1 with the first three songs.
End Set 1 with Surrounded and Metropolis.
Open Set 2 with Under a Glass Moon.
End Set 2 with the last two songs.

 :metal

I wouldn't like that at all. I think, albums like I&W are pieces that are supposed to be listened to as a whole.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: MirrorMask on November 19, 2016, 04:54:02 AM
There are so many albums played in full now, that unless they're concept albums I wouldn't mind having the songs spread throughout the whole set. In this specific case, I'm fine with Images and Words being played in a row.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: JediKnight1969 on November 19, 2016, 05:53:04 AM
I forgot about FII. Maybe they could honor that album the same way they honored SFAM during the DT12 tour with a couple of songs at least. For instance:

Set 1 - I&W

Set 2:

You not me
Burning my soul
Hell's kitchen
Lines in the sand
Take away my pain
Just let me breathe
Anna Lee

Encore:

A change of seasons
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: Mladen on November 19, 2016, 07:03:31 AM
I don't think they'll be honoring some of their least popular albums.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: KevShmev on November 19, 2016, 07:13:16 AM
What if they just played all the Images and Words album spread across the set, but in order. Open with Pull Me Under, end the set with Learning to Live.

They won't do it that way, but they ought to, because it would be awesome.

Open Set 1 with the first three songs.
End Set 1 with Surrounded and Metropolis.
Open Set 2 with Under a Glass Moon.
End Set 2 with the last two songs.

 :metal

I wouldn't like that at all. I think, albums like I&W are pieces that are supposed to be listened to as a whole.

Eh, I disagree.  I&W is not a concept album or one of those albums that has to be played in order; it's a phenomenal album that is a collection of great songs.  They could scatter them throughout the set list in just about any order and it would work about as well.

The exception being Pull Me Under, which I've always thought is a great opener, but poor set closer/encore.  This tour pretty much guarantees that it will kick off the set, which is the way it always should be with that one.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: The Jester on November 19, 2016, 08:44:25 AM
I wish they would come back to Scotland.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: JediKnight1969 on November 19, 2016, 09:26:50 AM
I don't think they'll be honoring some of their least popular albums.

JP thinks FII is great and he's proud of it:

http://www.rockbook.hu/hirek/john-petrucci-interview-label-didnt-have-influence-falling-infinity-album
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: Fritzinger on November 19, 2016, 09:53:46 AM
I think FII is awesome as well!!

Coming back to the "playing I&W completely", I didn't mean that it's like a concept album. I started listening albums as a whole a couple of years back and realized that it makes a lot of sense, even if it's not a concept album. It reflects the artist at the very time when the album came out, and also I think that the artist has a reason why he/she/they put the songs on the record this particular way, and no another way. Some albums have a certain atmosphere to them without following a musical or lyrical concept, for example Gaucho by Steely Dan, Hotel California by Eagles, Joshua Tree by U2. That makes me want to listen to the albums from start to finish.
For example, I think Exposure by Robert Fripp is a collection of a LOT of songs of a LOT of different genres and style, yet for me it is best when you hear the whole thing.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: McNugg on November 19, 2016, 10:24:40 AM
I wish they would come back to Scotland.

Same here!  Not been here since 2012.  Though with this tour i'd happily just take any UK dates at all :(
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: Dream Team on November 19, 2016, 11:34:53 AM
I don't think they'll be honoring some of their least popular albums.

JP thinks FII is great and he's proud of it:

http://www.rockbook.hu/hirek/john-petrucci-interview-label-didnt-have-influence-falling-infinity-album

Unfortunately he's incorrect. FII already got all the love it requires on the Budokan DVD.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: Mladen on November 19, 2016, 12:28:02 PM
http://www.rockbook.hu/hirek/john-petrucci-interview-label-didnt-have-influence-falling-infinity-album
Good for him. If I recall correctly, James isn't. Jordan and Mike don't care since they weren't in the band, and John Myung probably wouldn't be the one to bring up the idea of celebrating Falling into infinity. Even though we don't know his opinion on it.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: rumborak on November 19, 2016, 01:00:25 PM
I have no idea why they'd play the 12SS. Not even because of Mike, but because it makes no sense logistically.

Nobody has mentioned the biggest reason to not play 12SS: in its entirety it drags on and is too repetitive. If they played an "abridged" version, that could be interesting, but I don't think any of the remaining members has much interest in spending a lot of time on the piece.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: Adami on November 19, 2016, 01:05:52 PM
I have no idea why they'd play the 12SS. Not even because of Mike, but because it makes no sense logistically.

Nobody has mentioned the biggest reason to not play 12SS: in its entirety it drags on and is too repetitive. If they played an "abridged" version, that could be interesting, but I don't think any of the remaining members has much interest in spending a lot of time on the piece.

They already played an abridged version of the suite. It's called The Shattered Fortress.



Thank you, thank you. I'll be here all week.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: JediKnight1969 on November 19, 2016, 01:54:23 PM
I don't think they'll be honoring some of their least popular albums.

JP thinks FII is great and he's proud of it:

http://www.rockbook.hu/hirek/john-petrucci-interview-label-didnt-have-influence-falling-infinity-album

Unfortunately he's incorrect. FII already got all the love it requires on the Budokan DVD.

Only 3 songs. My imaginary setlist avoid them.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: Fritzinger on November 19, 2016, 02:38:03 PM
I have no idea why they'd play the 12SS. Not even because of Mike, but because it makes no sense logistically.

Nobody has mentioned the biggest reason to not play 12SS: in its entirety it drags on and is too repetitive. If they played an "abridged" version, that could be interesting, but I don't think any of the remaining members has much interest in spending a lot of time on the piece.

Not quite my opinion. I think the 12SS is a great piece of music and actually holds up the suspense pretty well for being a 55min piece.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: red barchetta on November 19, 2016, 06:30:32 PM
Set list time, eh?

1. In the presence of enemies part 1
2. This dying soul
3. Build me up, break me down
4. Home
5. Lines in the sand
6. Wither
7. Surrender to reason
8. Our new world
---
9. Pull me under
10. Another day
11. Take the time
12. Surrounded
13. Metropolis part 1
14. Under a glass moon
15. 1Wait for sleep
16. Learning to live
----
17. Octavarium

This is neither a wishlist nor a prediction. I'm just throwing it out there for fun.  ;D Although some bits of it are fairly realistic.

A set list like that and I'm front row.  I would not mind they put 3 songs from TA... you know the 3 good ones. ;)
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: Prog Snob on November 19, 2016, 07:56:49 PM
I'd rather them close with ACOS if they're going to pay tribute to Images and Words...or throw in To Live Forever
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: gzarruk on November 19, 2016, 08:55:33 PM
I'd rather them close with ACOS if they're going to pay tribute to Images and Words...or throw in To Live Forever


It would make total sense for them to play both songs since both are from the same era, and they already played a part (Innocence) from ACOS and TLF with Mangini.

That would be an unreal experience.  :metal




I think FII is awesome as well!!

Coming back to the "playing I&W completely", I didn't mean that it's like a concept album. I started listening albums as a whole a couple of years back and realized that it makes a lot of sense, even if it's not a concept album. It reflects the artist at the very time when the album came out, and also I think that the artist has a reason why he/she/they put the songs on the record this particular way, and no another way. Some albums have a certain atmosphere to them without following a musical or lyrical concept, for example Gaucho by Steely Dan, Hotel California by Eagles, Joshua Tree by U2. That makes me want to listen to the albums from start to finish.
For example, I think Exposure by Robert Fripp is a collection of a LOT of songs of a LOT of different genres and style, yet for me it is best when you hear the whole thing.


Completely agree with you! When I was following music production as my carreer, one of the teachers told us that every album should have a concept (not talking about a concept album like SFAM or TA), like a common theme or topic that links all the songs on the album. If a song doesn't fit the tone/theme/concept of the album, he said, it's better to not include it on the album, so that the final product is cohesive and coherent.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: Prog Snob on November 19, 2016, 11:13:29 PM
I'd rather them close with ACOS if they're going to pay tribute to Images and Words...or throw in To Live Forever


It would make total sense for them to play both songs since both are from the same era, and they already played a part (Innocence) from ACOS and TLF with Mangini.

That would be an unreal experience.  :metal



I don't see them playing ACOS too many more times in their career, so now is as good a time as any. I would be exceedingly disappointed if they never played it again in its entirety. It's a Top 5 song and has always been a fan favorite (for most of us at least).
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: Fritzinger on November 20, 2016, 05:33:04 AM
If I had to decide between 8vm & ACOS, it would definitely be 8tvm for me. I would consider it the best song of their career and the first tour I saw was the Systematic Chaos tour, so.. :blush
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: gzarruk on November 20, 2016, 06:04:25 AM
I'd rather them close with ACOS if they're going to pay tribute to Images and Words...or throw in To Live Forever


It would make total sense for them to play both songs since both are from the same era, and they already played a part (Innocence) from ACOS and TLF with Mangini.

That would be an unreal experience.  :metal



I don't see them playing ACOS too many more times in their career, so now is as good a time as any. I would be exceedingly disappointed if they never played it again in its entirety. It's a Top 5 song and has always been a fan favorite (for most of us at least).

That's the problem with their longest songs from older albums, fans love them, but you can't really play them too pften because they tay way too much time from the setlist on a regular tour :-\


If I had to decide between 8vm & ACOS, it would definitely be 8tvm for me. I would consider it the best song of their career and the first tour I saw was the Systematic Chaos tour, so.. :blush


:lol I feel your pain, they've only come to my country once, for the BC&SL tour, and I couldn't go see them, so I've been sad for not going ever since :'(

At least you got to see ITPOE live, that's one of my DT favorotes as well :biggrin:
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: Prog Snob on November 20, 2016, 06:06:32 AM
I'd rather them close with ACOS if they're going to pay tribute to Images and Words...or throw in To Live Forever


It would make total sense for them to play both songs since both are from the same era, and they already played a part (Innocence) from ACOS and TLF with Mangini.

That would be an unreal experience.  :metal



I don't see them playing ACOS too many more times in their career, so now is as good a time as any. I would be exceedingly disappointed if they never played it again in its entirety. It's a Top 5 song and has always been a fan favorite (for most of us at least).

That's the problem with their longest songs from older albums, fans love them, but you can't really play them too pften because they tay way too much time from the setlist on a regular tour :-\


You're right. That's why I'm hoping they will go one more tour adding it into the setlist, even if it's only part of the tour - the New York part.  ;) One can hope.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: Fritzinger on November 20, 2016, 06:12:38 AM
Quote
:lol I feel your pain, they've only come to my country once, for the BC&SL tour, and I couldn't go see them, so I've been sad for not going ever since :'(

At least you got to see ITPOE live, that's one of my DT favorotes as well :biggrin:

Actually no, just the first part ;) I saw the second leg of the SC tour, round the time BC&SL was coming out but they only played AROP from the new album. I was in München (I believe it was 23rd of June 2009), with Neal Morse as supporting act ;) If I recall correctly, that was still part of the SC tour. Correct me if I am wrong. Anyway, it was awesome! I stood out in the rain for a few hours to get in the first line and met my (later) girlfriend for the first time (she's not anymore though :D). Later I found out, that Mike Portnoy recorded a lot of his vocals for The Whirlwind at the very same time, backstage, a few meters away from me. I am very proud of having seen DT with MP. Great day.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: Kotowboy on November 20, 2016, 11:58:53 AM
If I had to decide between 8vm & ACOS, it would definitely be 8tvm for me. I would consider it the best song of their career and the first tour I saw was the Systematic Chaos tour, so.. :blush

Ooh tough choice. Octavarium their best song VS A Change Of Seasons - one of the worst.   :police:
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: Adami on November 20, 2016, 12:01:12 PM
So how will they handle the dual vocal part in ACOS if they play it? In the past James would hold out that long note while Portnoy sang the other line.

Would it just be done via backing tracks? A little underwhelming.

Since it'll be to a click and a bit too robotic for my tastes, I hope they do 8vm since I don't have as strong a connection to it. And obviously DT should be considering my personal feelings toward DT songs as the main deciding factor in all of this.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: Fritzinger on November 20, 2016, 12:06:18 PM
I think this will be the smallest problem. JP can do it.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: Prog Snob on November 20, 2016, 12:44:33 PM
Yeah, this is a no-brainer. I was never found of MP's vocal harmonies anyway. I'll take ACOS with the slight blemish of a click track as opposed to not hearing it at all. It's still them playing it and it's better than not hearing it.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: MirrorMask on November 20, 2016, 01:02:33 PM
So how will they handle the dual vocal part in ACOS if they play it? In the past James would hold out that long note while Portnoy sang the other line.

James can simply skip the long note and continue singing.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: TheAtliator on November 20, 2016, 04:02:55 PM
Set list time, eh?

1. In the presence of enemies part 1
2. This dying soul
3. Build me up, break me down
4. Home
5. Lines in the sand
6. Wither
7. Surrender to reason
8. Our new world
---
9. Pull me under
10. Another day
11. Take the time
12. Surrounded
13. Metropolis part 1
14. Under a glass moon
15. 1Wait for sleep
16. Learning to live
----
17. Octavarium

This is neither a wishlist nor a prediction. I'm just throwing it out there for fun.  ;D Although some bits of it are fairly realistic.


I like this one!!! Just replace Our New World with Moment of Betrayal; that would be SOOO much better IMO  :)
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: sfam2112 on November 20, 2016, 04:32:47 PM
So how will they handle the dual vocal part in ACOS if they play it? In the past James would hold out that long note while Portnoy sang the other line.

On the ACoS mini-tour, he just held the note out and no one sang the other line. But, I imagine JP could handle it.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: gzarruk on November 20, 2016, 04:48:59 PM
Quote
:lol I feel your pain, they've only come to my country once, for the BC&SL tour, and I couldn't go see them, so I've been sad for not going ever since :'(

At least you got to see ITPOE live, that's one of my DT favorotes as well :biggrin:

Actually no, just the first part ;) I saw the second leg of the SC tour, round the time BC&SL was coming out but they only played AROP from the new album. I was in München (I believe it was 23rd of June 2009), with Neal Morse as supporting act ;) If I recall correctly, that was still part of the SC tour. Correct me if I am wrong. Anyway, it was awesome! I stood out in the rain for a few hours to get in the first line and met my (later) girlfriend for the first time (she's not anymore though :D). Later I found out, that Mike Portnoy recorded a lot of his vocals for The Whirlwind at the very same time, backstage, a few meters away from me. I am very proud of having seen DT with MP. Great day.


You got a really nice story there!
I found the setlist for your concert on Setlist fm. Looks like a great setlist! http://www.setlist.fm/setlist/dream-theater/2009/norje-havsbad-norje-sweden-5bd613b0.html

Seems like it was more of a short mini tour or series of few dates before they released the album, the same thing they did playing festivals in Europe just before ADTOE was released, and they were only playing OTBOA from the album.



Since it'll be to a click and a bit too robotic for my tastes, I hope they do 8vm since I don't have as strong a connection to it.


Maybe I'm wrong, but why lots of people seem to think that playing to a click makes it sound robotic?  ???
Every song on every of their studio albums was recorded using a click, same with 99% of albums in general,  and people don't really complain about it. I know it's all about the feel for the show and all that, but the click makes you play everything in sync with the band, lights, videos, etc, and you play the song at the tempo it was supposed to be played on the first place  :biggrin:
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: Adami on November 20, 2016, 04:55:35 PM
Yea, I should clarify that. I used to always play live to a click too, I'm fine with a click. I just feel like (and I know many will disagree with me, so this is just my opinion) that Mangini, in general, is a bit too robotic live (and studio) and I don't think it will mesh too well with ACOS.

Just my opinion of course, and they're free to do whatever.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: bosk1 on November 20, 2016, 11:08:57 PM
Okay, so...I talked to JP last night after the show in Reno, and he shared the set list with me.  First off, no, I will not tell you the entire set list and will not confirm or deny guesses...for the most part.  :biggrin:  I will drop some details here and there, but not enough for people to piece the set together.  But for now, suffice to say:  This is not something to be missed.  People will DEFINITELY enjoy this show.  If you can go to one of these dates, DO IT!
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: Bertielee on November 21, 2016, 12:42:54 AM
Okay, so...I talked to JP last night after the show in Reno, and he shared the set list with me.  First off, no, I will not tell you the entire set list and will not confirm or deny guesses...for the most part.  :biggrin:  I will drop some details here and there, but not enough for people to piece the set together.  But for now, suffice to say:  This is not something to be missed.  People will DEFINITELY enjoy this show.  If you can go to one of these dates, DO IT!

Oh, you, teaser!  :biggrin:

B.Lee
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: TheAtliator on November 21, 2016, 12:47:10 AM
 :omg: :omg: :omg:
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: MirrorMask on November 21, 2016, 02:37:33 AM
Okay, so...I talked to JP last night after the show in Reno, and he shared the set list with me.  First off, no, I will not tell you the entire set list and will not confirm or deny guesses...for the most part.  :biggrin:  I will drop some details here and there, but not enough for people to piece the set together.  But for now, suffice to say:  This is not something to be missed.  People will DEFINITELY enjoy this show.  If you can go to one of these dates, DO IT!

Just for curiosity... he shared in the sense that he told you "We're gonna play this, this and that and also we're gonna do this big epic" or he actually showed you / listed you the entire setlist, song by song? in this second case I thought only Portnoy planned in such advance!
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: gzarruk on November 21, 2016, 04:56:56 AM
Okay, so...I talked to JP last night after the show in Reno, and he shared the set list with me.  First off, no, I will not tell you the entire set list and will not confirm or deny guesses...for the most part.  :biggrin:  I will drop some details here and there, but not enough for people to piece the set together.  But for now, suffice to say:  This is not something to be missed.  People will DEFINITELY enjoy this show.  If you can go to one of these dates, DO IT!

I feel very jealous right now :omg: ;D

Did you ask him about their plans for next year, after the IAW tour? I mean, are they going to tour Asia/Australia for TA? or are they going to take some time off and then start working on the next album?

Anyway, thank you!  :hefdaddy
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: devieira73 on November 21, 2016, 05:29:49 AM
Okay, so...I talked to JP last night after the show in Reno, and he shared the set list with me.  First off, no, I will not tell you the entire set list and will not confirm or deny guesses...for the most part.  :biggrin:  I will drop some details here and there, but not enough for people to piece the set together.  But for now, suffice to say:  This is not something to be missed.  People will DEFINITELY enjoy this show.  If you can go to one of these dates, DO IT!
Bosk, did you ask JP about the DVD from TA live? Thanks!
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: Dream Team on November 21, 2016, 05:50:04 AM
Okay, so...I talked to JP last night after the show in Reno, and he shared the set list with me.  First off, no, I will not tell you the entire set list and will not confirm or deny guesses...for the most part.  :biggrin:  I will drop some details here and there, but not enough for people to piece the set together.  But for now, suffice to say:  This is not something to be missed.  People will DEFINITELY enjoy this show.  If you can go to one of these dates, DO IT!

Hmmm . . . hopefully we'll get a list of North American dates soon.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: krands85 on November 21, 2016, 06:12:20 AM
Okay, so...I talked to JP last night after the show in Reno, and he shared the set list with me.  First off, no, I will not tell you the entire set list and will not confirm or deny guesses...for the most part.  :biggrin:  I will drop some details here and there, but not enough for people to piece the set together.  But for now, suffice to say:  This is not something to be missed.  People will DEFINITELY enjoy this show.  If you can go to one of these dates, DO IT!
You didn't happen to find out if they'll be adding any UK dates did you?  ;D :'(
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: gzarruk on November 21, 2016, 06:14:22 AM
Okay, so...I talked to JP last night after the show in Reno, and he shared the set list with me.  First off, no, I will not tell you the entire set list and will not confirm or deny guesses...for the most part.  :biggrin:  I will drop some details here and there, but not enough for people to piece the set together.  But for now, suffice to say:  This is not something to be missed.  People will DEFINITELY enjoy this show.  If you can go to one of these dates, DO IT!

Hmmm . . . hopefully we'll get a list of North American dates soon.

Would be amazing for North American fans, but I see it very unlikely, considering they just did two US legs for TA. That would take them a lot of time on the road on the same cities, while they haven't even finshed the TA tour (if they plan to continue with it) on other countries.
That would also take them almost  all of 2017 touring, and would push the next album to late 2018 or even early 2019  :-[

We can only speculate, though.  :-\
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: noxon on November 21, 2016, 06:53:37 AM
Color me a bit scared though. They're announcing 4 concerts in norway - we've typically had only one. We're 5 million people here. Add to this the fact that we've been used to ONE concert every two years. Now; over the span of less than two years we will have had 9 concerts - 5 of which are in completely new places for DT.

We have a term when this happens to bands in norway, "Norgesvenner" - Friends of Norway. It's a slighly derogatory term used for bands that are way passed their popularity peak and are touring wherever they can. I'm not saying DT is all there yet, but the waning popularity is plain to see. My job has also become increasingly more difficult. It's REALLY hard to drum up any sort of excitement anymore. I noticed that during the run up to The Astonishing.

I guess it's more of a sickness in the entire music industry though - the money just isnt there as much anymore, and everyone started touring like crazy. But now it's at a point where people are just tired of going to concerts...
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: mikeyd23 on November 21, 2016, 07:20:47 AM
Okay, so...I talked to JP last night after the show in Reno, and he shared the set list with me.  First off, no, I will not tell you the entire set list and will not confirm or deny guesses...for the most part.  :biggrin:  I will drop some details here and there, but not enough for people to piece the set together.  But for now, suffice to say:  This is not something to be missed.  People will DEFINITELY enjoy this show.  If you can go to one of these dates, DO IT!

That's awesome!
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: hefdaddy42 on November 21, 2016, 07:23:02 AM
Okay, so...I talked to JP last night after the show in Reno, and he shared the set list with me.  First off, no, I will not tell you the entire set list and will not confirm or deny guesses...for the most part.  :biggrin:  I will drop some details here and there, but not enough for people to piece the set together.  But for now, suffice to say:  This is not something to be missed.  People will DEFINITELY enjoy this show.  If you can go to one of these dates, DO IT!
:tup
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: Pettor on November 21, 2016, 08:25:54 AM
Color me a bit scared though. They're announcing 4 concerts in norway - we've typically had only one. We're 5 million people here. Add to this the fact that we've been used to ONE concert every two years. Now; over the span of less than two years we will have had 9 concerts - 5 of which are in completely new places for DT.

We have a term when this happens to bands in norway, "Norgesvenner" - Friends of Norway. It's a slighly derogatory term used for bands that are way passed their popularity peak and are touring wherever they can. I'm not saying DT is all there yet, but the waning popularity is plain to see. My job has also become increasingly more difficult. It's REALLY hard to drum up any sort of excitement anymore. I noticed that during the run up to The Astonishing.

I guess it's more of a sickness in the entire music industry though - the money just isnt there as much anymore, and everyone started touring like crazy. But now it's at a point where people are just tired of going to concerts...

I get exactly what you mean. They have 3 concerts in Sweden and only time I ever seen an arena being sold out here is 8V tour when they had a big peak you could actually see posters of them coming here. I don't get how they are supposed to sell out this. I hope it will go well and this works so they can repeat the concept, but worried it will be the opposite.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: bosk1 on November 21, 2016, 09:23:01 AM
Okay, so...I talked to JP last night after the show in Reno, and he shared the set list with me.  First off, no, I will not tell you the entire set list and will not confirm or deny guesses...for the most part.  :biggrin:  I will drop some details here and there, but not enough for people to piece the set together.  But for now, suffice to say:  This is not something to be missed.  People will DEFINITELY enjoy this show.  If you can go to one of these dates, DO IT!

Just for curiosity... he shared in the sense that he told you "We're gonna play this, this and that and also we're gonna do this big epic" or he actually showed you / listed you the entire setlist, song by song? in this second case I thought only Portnoy planned in such advance!

He showed me the exact set list, written out.  Part of the reason it is planned out so far in advance is because they have basically been touring nonstop with only short breaks.  And there is more planned.  They are not going to have a ton of time to rehearse before they start playing this stuff.  So even though it is possible that things could change somewhat between now and the time that tour leg gets going, they have it pretty much dialed in so that they can start rehearsing the set from start to finish and be prepared.  Also, keep in mind that even though Mike Mangini has been in the band 6 years and is both a phenomenal player and a phenomenal student of music, he is still the "new guy" in the band and has not played the majority of the DT catalog, so he has a lot of learning to do any time they add new songs that he has not played.  So a couple of things to keep in mind related to that:

1.  This era of the band has a slightly different mindset than the prior version of the band.  They aren't going for the "fly by the seat of our pants" vibe and just throwing stuff together because it might be fun to try.  The overall band mindset for their live performances is, they want to present shows that are well rehearsed and well produced, and that come across as very polished.  They don't want to, for example, come up with a set of all new material that some or all of the members feel less than 100% ready to present in a very polished form.  They want everyone on stage to feel 100% comfortable with all the material so they can deliver these songs in their best, most energetic form.

2.  The above also means that the sets will not consist of all new material that Mangini has never played before.  To make sure Mike isn't overwhelmed, they will absolutely be playing some songs that they have already played with him on prior tours.  But there will definitely be SOME songs that he has not played on yet.  And...related to that, there will definitely be some songs that the band has not played in a VERY long time (or ever).  They are trying to put together a good mix of new and old, but the overall mindset was along the lines of, "Let's pick songs that we know are crowd pleasers that the audiences have really reacted well to, and let's go out there and just try to have as much fun as possible."  I really think they have done a great job of putting together a set that is going to put huge smiles on most fans' faces. 

3.  Kind of redundant, but just to be clear:  They will be playing songs that Mangini has played live with the band.  Because they are still touring in support of The Astonishing, that album will definitely be represented.  But there will be other songs, both new and old, that Mangini has played with them before.  But again, they consciously decided to pick songs that have really developed a solid live following that audiences have reacted well to.  Having seen the list myself, and knowing what the feedback has been on these forums to a lot of those songs, I agree that they picked GREAT selections from that standpoint.

For now, here's a tidbit about the Images & Words set:  Confirmed that the plan is to play all songs in their entirety!  So, for example, they will not chop the "if there's a pensive fear" verse out of Take the Time.  They are going to go for it, and James is completely on board.  As John put it, "James is going to have to eat his Wheaties for this tour!"  :lol

More later...
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: bosk1 on November 21, 2016, 09:26:10 AM
Okay, so...I talked to JP last night after the show in Reno, and he shared the set list with me.  First off, no, I will not tell you the entire set list and will not confirm or deny guesses...for the most part.  :biggrin:  I will drop some details here and there, but not enough for people to piece the set together.  But for now, suffice to say:  This is not something to be missed.  People will DEFINITELY enjoy this show.  If you can go to one of these dates, DO IT!
Bosk, did you ask JP about the DVD from TA live? Thanks!

I'm so sorry, no, I didn't get a chance to ask that.  The conversation just took a different direction and I didn't get to it.  But John and I plan to try to get caught up on some other things in the near future, so I will try to remember to revisit that.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: hefdaddy42 on November 21, 2016, 09:27:41 AM
bosky, that sounds incredible.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: bosk1 on November 21, 2016, 09:33:20 AM
It will be "epic."  ;)
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: hefdaddy42 on November 21, 2016, 09:39:31 AM
It will be "epic."  ;)
Did you ask if it would be Europe-only, or if it would be coming to the States?
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: bosk1 on November 21, 2016, 09:50:42 AM
Yes, I did ask.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: TAC on November 21, 2016, 09:54:59 AM
Um..and..?
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: MirrorMask on November 21, 2016, 09:58:59 AM
Thanks for the very comprehensive update!

I love how you left out any references to them playing A Change of Seasons, they surely told you to be tight lipped about it...  ;D

Ahaha, just kiddin'. But seriously, thanks for explaining the mindset of the band on this, it's always nice to see how they approach their own shows and performances.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: bosk1 on November 21, 2016, 10:06:01 AM
Um..and..?
Oh, sorry.  Let me be more specific:  He answered.  :biggrin:
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: bosk1 on November 21, 2016, 10:07:41 AM
Thanks for the very comprehensive update!

I love how you left out any references to them playing A Change of Seasons, they surely told you to be tight lipped about it...  ;D

Ahaha, just kiddin'. But seriously, thanks for explaining the mindset of the band on this, it's always nice to see how they approach their own shows and performances.
My general practice is, I do not leak ANYTHING they tell me unless they have clearly given permission.  I do have permission to share some details.  But we have time.  No use spilling the beans about everything just yet.  ;)

I will just say that with respect to some of the speculative songs that have been listed in people's set lists:  Some guesses are correct.  Some are not.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: OpenYourEyes311 on November 21, 2016, 10:39:12 AM
Your "not-answering" if it's coming to the US makes me think it IS coming to the US and you were told not to say anything until the dates have been posted.

And THAT gets me excited.

I'm sure they're waiting until the current tour is over before announcing a new tour. That would make sense and will prevent confusion.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: TheCountOfNYC on November 21, 2016, 11:27:06 AM
Confirmed that the plan is to play all songs in their entiretySo, for example, they will not chop the "if there's a pensive fear" verse out of Take the Time.  They are going to go for it, and James is completely on board.  As John put it, "James is going to have to eat his Wheaties for this tour!"  :lol

So not only are they playing Take the Time (my favorite DT song under 10 minutes) for the first time since Portnoy left, but they're playing it in full?! They better come to America and more specifically NYC.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: MirrorMask on November 21, 2016, 11:30:59 AM
One very minor issue I have with Take the Time live: for whatever reason they chose to just sing the title as backup during the chorus, rather than doing it like on the studio version and sing "it's time to take the time", ascending... instead they just say "Take the time" in a descending way, and it makes a lot of difference, I like way more the studio version and I hope they'll stick to that.

Also, but this just me noticing, James usually sings in Under a Glass Moon "I argue with the clouds, beauty from their eyes" completely skipping "STEALING beauty" from the original lyric. Maybe it's just to deliver the line better and skipping the word makes his breathing easier, dunno.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: bosk1 on November 21, 2016, 11:37:19 AM
One very minor issue I have with Take the Time live: for whatever reason they chose to just sing the title as backup during the chorus, rather than doing it like on the studio version and sing "it's time to take the time", ascending... instead they just say "Take the time" in a descending way, and it makes a lot of difference, I like way more the studio version and I hope they'll stick to that.

Also, but this just me noticing, James usually sings in Under a Glass Moon "I argue with the clouds, beauty from their eyes" completely skipping "STEALING beauty" from the original lyric. Maybe it's just to deliver the line better and skipping the word makes his breathing easier, dunno.
Well, keep in mind that, in the studio, you generally record a song one line at a time.  That is, you sing one line, stop, redo if it isn't "perfect," rest, and then do the next line, etc.  That sometimes results in vocal lines that are near impossible to duplicate live, especially in a band's earlier years, typically.  And kind of similarly with backing vocals, they typically have many, many layered vocal parts in the studio, many of which are by the lead singer.  No offense to him, but I don't think JP could do the ascending vocal chorus line of he wanted to.  :lol  Now if they do the I&W songs to a click and have a backing track for the vocal harmonies, maybe that issue will get sorted out.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: kingshmegland on November 21, 2016, 11:44:12 AM
bosk1 = :soon:

Thanks for the facts boss.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: gzarruk on November 21, 2016, 12:10:21 PM
Your "not-answering" if it's coming to the US makes me think it IS coming to the US and you were told not to say anything until the dates have been posted.

And THAT gets me excited.

I'm sure they're waiting until the current tour is over before announcing a new tour. That would make sense and will prevent confusion.

The only bad aspect of it is that, if they, in fact, tour the US and other places with this IAW anniversary, they would've been touring for almost 2 years with little breaks in between. That would mean the next album would be pushed back for even 2019 :omg: I'd hate to wait that long for a new DT album, considering they'd probably never play another concert here  :'(, and I get very excited for new music from them
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: OpenYourEyes311 on November 21, 2016, 01:18:10 PM
Your "not-answering" if it's coming to the US makes me think it IS coming to the US and you were told not to say anything until the dates have been posted.

And THAT gets me excited.

I'm sure they're waiting until the current tour is over before announcing a new tour. That would make sense and will prevent confusion.

The only bad aspect of it is that, if they, in fact, tour the US and other places with this IAW anniversary, they would've been touring for almost 2 years with little breaks in between. That would mean the next album would be pushed back for even 2019 :omg: I'd hate to wait that long for a new DT album, considering they'd probably never play another concert here  :'(, and I get very excited for new music from them

I totally get that, especially if they don't tour near you. But they've been going non-stop on a write-record-tour process since basically Falling Into Infinity with very little downtime. Even losing a key member didn't slow them down much. They've put out 10 albums in the last 20 years. If they want to slow down the "write/record" process for more "tour" process, I have no problem with that, and I think they've earned the right to do whatever they want to do. I'd only ask that with special tours like this (and, really, the Astonishing tour has been pretty special too), we'd get some sort of live release with it to tide us over until the next album.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: KevShmev on November 21, 2016, 06:27:57 PM
Good info, bosk1.

Regarding songs they've never played with Mangini, I think The Bigger Picture is a good bet.  I remember JLB was a big fan of that one, and I think it will finally find its way in there.  Would be cool to see Surrender to Reason, too, but I'd be happy to see either or both.

Should be interesting to see which Astonishing songs make it on to the set with them going for a set list of the whole catalogue.  Our New World is the easy pick to survive, and I think A New Beginning and Three Days are likely choices as well.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: GasparXR on November 21, 2016, 07:00:47 PM
Exciting! I do hope they come to NA for this tour.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: Darkstarshades on November 21, 2016, 07:03:08 PM
I actually don't know why he skips the word Stealing tho, I've seen guys sing it and say it with no issues at all.

As for Take The Time, that thing is incredibly intense to sing, clearly a song that was written with no singer in mind (just a style)
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: bosk1 on November 21, 2016, 07:04:36 PM
Should be interesting to see which Astonishing songs make it on to the set with them going for a set list of the whole catalogue. 

It isn't the "whole catalog."  They are representing quite a bit of it.  But they aren't representing every single album, and aren't trying to.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: KevShmev on November 21, 2016, 07:06:44 PM
You know what I meant, fool. :P
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: Darkstarshades on November 21, 2016, 07:13:25 PM
UltraDT concert.
Every single song performed.
Around 20 hours-long supershow with everysingle imaginable guest!
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: bosk1 on November 21, 2016, 07:14:35 PM
You know what I meant, fool. :P
No, actually, I thought maybe I misspoke and you interpreted my prior post as "they are going to play something from each album to represent the entire catalog," so I was just clarifying.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: KevShmev on November 21, 2016, 07:15:42 PM
Haha, gotcha.  :tup :tup

This might be better suited for the DVD thread, but if they are going to do a live DVD from this touring cycle, I'd rather see one from next year with all of I&W, some of TA and other miscellaneous songs.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: bosk1 on November 21, 2016, 07:16:45 PM
I'd rather see both, actually.  :)
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: Darkstarshades on November 21, 2016, 07:17:36 PM
I was thinking of having a DVD with the full TA performance and the 3 encores, as well as an entire I&W show.

Nightwish is doing something like that, they're launching two concerts in one dvd release.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: gzarruk on November 21, 2016, 08:09:31 PM
Should be interesting to see which Astonishing songs make it on to the set with them going for a set list of the whole catalogue. 

It isn't the "whole catalog."  They are representing quite a bit of it.  But they aren't representing every single album, and aren't trying to.

I know you can't/don't want to reveal too much from the setlist, but, at least, are you allowed to tell us which albums are NOT going to be represented on their setlist? And, if you can, please tell us  :biggrin:


On a side note, I'm just curious: Did you take notes or a pic from the setlist JP showed you, or you typed all you remembered after you got home? haha
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: red barchetta on November 21, 2016, 09:55:12 PM
Bosk, did JP tell you if they will do a second leg in Canada? Again, Europe are getting a leg with a great setlist. I remember when they toured for DT12, the European tour had in my opinion a much better setlist than the one they played here. Less songs from DT12 and more old songs.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: MirrorMask on November 22, 2016, 01:15:30 AM
Should be interesting to see which Astonishing songs make it on to the set with them going for a set list of the whole catalogue.  Our New World is the easy pick to survive, and I think A New Beginning and Three Days are likely choices as well.

I think too these are likely candidates. Our New World most likely will close the first set (or the second if they start right away with I&W), and the other two songs came down with a roar when they played it at my show.

I would assume also The Gift of Music will be there, maybe starting the show, otherwise they'll start with a standard opener like As I Am or maybe Bridges in the Sky.

The Bigger Picture must find a way somehow in the set also, crossed fingers!
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: noxon on November 22, 2016, 01:25:07 AM
Judging by the reaction from the live shows, A New Beginning is the most obvious choice. Plus, its the narcissistic choice for JP ;)
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: Architeuthis on November 22, 2016, 01:27:59 AM


The Bigger Picture must find a way somehow in the set also, crossed fingers!
[/quote]

 This!
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: V_R11 on November 22, 2016, 01:56:26 AM
Judging by the reaction from the live shows, A New Beginning is the most obvious choice. Plus, its the narcissistic choice for JP ;)

I don't think the audience would mind hearing that solo either
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: Prog Snob on November 22, 2016, 02:03:34 AM

Quote
The Bigger Picture must find a way somehow in the set also, crossed fingers!

 This!

Agreed! Plus Surrender to Reason.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: bosk1 on November 22, 2016, 08:43:25 AM
The opening song is not one I would have picked in a million years as an "opener."  But that's all I'll say about that.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: ToT-147 on November 22, 2016, 10:07:06 AM
The opening song is not one I would have picked in a million years as an "opener."  But that's all I'll say about that.

 :omg: :justjen


Just one little doubt: are they going to play at least one song off SDoIT or ToT that hasn't been played yet with Mangini?..
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: Samsara on November 22, 2016, 10:42:09 AM
Pretty excited I&W is going to get the full album performance treatment. I agree with those that believe the band should tune down, even if just a half step, to make it easier for JLB to sing. The man is still a phenomenal singer, but unless you're a guy like Corey Glover or Glenn Hughes, who seem to get more range with age (how the hell does THAT happen), it's not fair to put JLB under that microscope each night. That's a tough record to sing, even in a tenor's prime.

Not sure if this tour is going beyond Europe, but if it comes stateside, it'd be a real treat.

Been a while since I have been on here. *waves at old timers*
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: jsbru on November 22, 2016, 12:30:29 PM
The opening song is not one I would have picked in a million years as an "opener."  But that's all I'll say about that.

So we at least know that I&W will be set 2?
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: jsbru on November 22, 2016, 12:41:29 PM
This is amazing news, especially if they come to the US.  I'm probably in for some VIP tickets again.

I really thing Bigger Picture or Surrender to Reason are musts.

I'm predicting ACOS based off Mangini's tweet and because it's one that would drive fans nuts.

I think this is clearly a "throwing red meat to the base" kind of tour to sort of make up for TA (even though I don't think they need to make up for anything, as I loved this album).

With that theme, I'd think The Glass Prison has a chance.  And if they're going with some stuff Mangini's already played, we could see the appearance of some of the songs from the new "encore" they've been playing at recent shows: As I Am, Spirit Carries On.

Probably not a lot from Awake, since half of that album was played recently.  I'd be thrilled if the other "epic" Mangini was talking about was A Mind Beside Itself, though.

And Definitely ONW and ANB, and probably TGOM from Astonishing.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: Chino on November 22, 2016, 12:47:59 PM
The opening song is not one I would have picked in a million years as an "opener."  But that's all I'll say about that.

I'm calling it now, it's either Hell's Kitchen or Wait For Sleep.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: gzarruk on November 22, 2016, 12:49:38 PM
Bosk, did JP tell you if they will do a second leg in Canada? Again, Europe are getting a leg with a great setlist. I remember when they toured for DT12, the European tour had in my opinion a much better setlist than the one they played here. Less songs from DT12 and more old songs.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but they played the same exact setlist for all the DT12 tour (excepting a few festival dates that were just a short version of the same set + PMU). I don't know what are you talking about  ???




Quote
The Bigger Picture must find a way somehow in the set also, crossed fingers!

 This!

Agreed! Plus Surrender to Reason.

This!


The opening song is not one I would have picked in a million years as an "opener."  But that's all I'll say about that.

Octavarium maybe?
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: MirrorMask on November 22, 2016, 12:51:23 PM
Yeah, the emphasis on "opener" made me realize that either it's really a random song, like The Bigger Picture or Trial of Tears, or something you'd expect last, like Octavarium or A Change of Seasons.

Or maybe it's just Our New World, dunno  :D
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: Architeuthis on November 22, 2016, 01:00:02 PM
If they played The Bigger Picture, I would prefer it to be later in the show when the sound guy has all the quirks ironed out and the band is loosened up. That would be a good song to wrap up the second set, followed by two heavier encores!
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: gzarruk on November 22, 2016, 01:38:20 PM
If they played The Bigger Picture, I would prefer it to be later in the show when the sound guy has all the quirks ironed out and the band is loosened up. That would be a good song to wrap up the second set, followed by two heavier encores!

It's great to see so much love for TBP and STR here on the forum. Lots of people disliked DT12, but I was listening to it today and still love it! Those two songs are definitely highlights from it  :)
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: jsbru on November 22, 2016, 02:17:10 PM
It's great to see so much love for TBP and STR here on the forum. Lots of people disliked DT12, but I was listening to it today and still love it! Those two songs are definitely highlights from it  :)

LG, TBP and STR are among some of the best songs the band has ever released.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: bosk1 on November 22, 2016, 02:28:17 PM
The opening song is not one I would have picked in a million years as an "opener."  But that's all I'll say about that.

I'm calling it now, it's either Hell's Kitchen or Wait For Sleep.

Interesting.  No, they aren't opening the show with either of those.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: Adami on November 22, 2016, 02:29:02 PM
Opening with Raw Dog.

Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: bosk1 on November 22, 2016, 02:30:31 PM
Well, now that's just plain silly.

Everybody knows Raw Dog is encore material.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: Adami on November 22, 2016, 02:31:21 PM
Well, now that's just plain silly.

Everybody knows Raw Dog is encore material.

Exactly, we all THINK that's how it'll be, which is why they'll open with it.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: Samsara on November 22, 2016, 02:35:15 PM
Well, now that's just plain silly.

Everybody knows Raw Dog is encore material.

 :rollin

Petition for Raw Dog to open the set!
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: gzarruk on November 22, 2016, 03:47:02 PM
Am I the only one who actually likes Raw Dog? I mean, it's not their best instrumental, but it surely has really cool parts in it. I would like to see them play it at least once  :biggrin:
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: CDrice on November 22, 2016, 03:47:35 PM
The opening song is not one I would have picked in a million years as an "opener."  But that's all I'll say about that.

It will be "epic."  ;)

Full performace of Six Degrees Of Inner Turbulence (the song) officially confirmed as the show opener.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: ToT-147 on November 22, 2016, 05:42:19 PM
Am I the only one who actually likes Raw Dog? I mean, it's not their best instrumental, but it surely has really cool parts in it. I would like to see them play it at least once  :biggrin:

No, you're not alone.. There are a lot of us who likes it.. And yeah, they should totally play it live, but if they're going to play one instrumental, I'd rather prefer it's Stream of Consciousness or Hell's Kitchen...
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: TAC on November 22, 2016, 06:09:17 PM
I love Raw Dog. Love It.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: red barchetta on November 22, 2016, 06:10:03 PM
Pretty excited I&W is going to get the full album performance treatment. I agree with those that believe the band should tune down, even if just a half step, to make it easier for JLB to sing. The man is still a phenomenal singer, but unless you're a guy like Corey Glover or Glenn Hughes, who seem to get more range with age (how the hell does THAT happen), it's not fair to put JLB under that microscope each night. That's a tough record to sing, even in a tenor's prime.

Not sure if this tour is going beyond Europe, but if it comes stateside, it'd be a real treat.

Been a while since I have been on here. *waves at old timers*

It would be cleaver to tune down some songs.  Or the front row people would have to catch JLB lungs.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: nattmorker on November 22, 2016, 06:50:14 PM
Am I the only one who actually likes Raw Dog? I mean, it's not their best instrumental, but it surely has really cool parts in it. I would like to see them play it at least once  :biggrin:

No, you're not alone.. There are a lot of us who likes it.. And yeah, they should totally play it live, but if they're going to play one instrumental, I'd rather prefer it's Stream of Consciousness or Hell's Kitchen...

I really like Raw Dog, it's not my favorite instrumental, but i like it.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: KevShmev on November 22, 2016, 06:57:11 PM
The opening song is not one I would have picked in a million years as an "opener."  But that's all I'll say about that.

It's gonna be You Not Me; just fess up now. :biggrin:
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: Adami on November 22, 2016, 06:58:32 PM
My money's on a cover of Semisonic's Closing Time.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: TAC on November 22, 2016, 07:03:10 PM
The opening song is not one I would have picked in a million years as an "opener."  But that's all I'll say about that.

People are assuming that ACOS would be the encore. Well....
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: Prog Snob on November 22, 2016, 08:53:21 PM
I love Raw Dog. Love It.

I bet you would pay big money to see Winger do a cover of it.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: sfam2112 on November 22, 2016, 10:02:27 PM
The opening song is not one I would have picked in a million years as an "opener."  But that's all I'll say about that.

People are assuming that ACOS would be the encore. Well....

But they've opened with that before ;) ...ok, just the first two sections, but still.  ;D
Maybe it's Octavarium. Something I wouldn't have picked or expected as an opener. :P
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: Prog Snob on November 22, 2016, 10:10:59 PM
We could probably narrow it down to a handful of songs and make some educated guesses.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: El Barto on November 22, 2016, 10:52:23 PM
So how did we get from a tweet about transcribing monster songs to this near certainty that they're playing ACoS?
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: Schurftkut on November 22, 2016, 11:01:10 PM
because it's long overdue and a big fan favorite?
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: TheAtliator on November 22, 2016, 11:35:33 PM
The monster song from that one tweet easily could have just been Take The Time or something. That being said, I really hope either A Change of Seasons or even better, Octavarium are in the list, and Mr. Bosk's posts make me think that is totally possible! :)

Certainly there will be a few very special things in this set...
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: Prog Snob on November 23, 2016, 01:46:19 AM
So how did we get from a tweet about transcribing monster songs to this near certainty that they're playing ACoS?

I don't want to think it's near certainty because then I'll be exceedingly disappointed when it's not played.

Oh, and in reference to Bosk's song that he's surprised they're opening up with, maybe it's Pull Me Under. It starts off Images and Words and even though it has been an opening song before, it's more known as a closing/encore track.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: MirrorMask on November 23, 2016, 07:21:17 AM
Gut feeling tells me that I&W will be the second set. Not gonna be displeased either way however.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: Schurftkut on November 23, 2016, 08:02:53 AM
my hope for ACOS is great!! adding octavarium would just be a bonus..
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: HolidaysAnoraks on November 23, 2016, 08:29:18 AM
Just a hunch here, but I'm wondering if they may play a deep cut from WDADU   and / or the I&W demos. Something like The Killing Hand, The Ones Who Help To Set The Sun, or even Don't Look Past Me. If that's the case, perhaps the opener is one of these older, seldom played tracks.

Bosk mentioned that they would be sticking to a certain extent with songs that Mangini has played before because of rehearsal time, and he has played To Live Forever (granted, only once or twice). Just an idea. I've had terrible luck predicting DT setlists in the past, so... :rollin
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: MirrorMask on November 23, 2016, 09:16:11 AM
I'd kill for Don't Look Past Me, but I'm afraid that JR and MM do not even know the song exists, and the other three have forgotten about it. I hope for it but I don't count on it at all.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: bosk1 on November 23, 2016, 09:20:36 AM
Yes, but an important question to ask is, WHO would you kill for it?
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: gzarruk on November 23, 2016, 09:22:31 AM
I'd kill for Don't Look Past Me, but I'm afraid that JR and MM do not even know the song exists, and the other three have forgotten about it. I hope for it but I don't count on it at all.

Well, if they're celebrating not just IAW, but that whole era, that includes DLPM, ACOS, TLF and Eve (surprisingly not mentioned here) as well.

Actually, they could start going through their old setlists from the IAW tour and check which songs they were playing back then. They even played Only a Matter of Time with the March of the Tyrant outro, that was amazing! (there's some videos/audios of it on youtube).

The Killing Hand is a good bet too, but I wouldn't expect more than 1 song from WDADU.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: Dream Team on November 23, 2016, 11:50:19 AM
Can't decide, would I&W make more sense as the second set after James is fully warmed up, or first set while he's fresh  ???

I'm calling it, they're opening with ACOS and closing with OV.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: ToT-147 on November 23, 2016, 11:52:47 AM

Well, if they're celebrating not just IAW, but that whole era, that includes DLPM, ACOS, TLF and Eve (surprisingly not mentioned here) as well.


Eve is from Awake era, not I&W..

And, to be fair, ACoS was finished/recorded in 1995 with Derek, so it shouldn't be counted in that group of songs either..
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: hefdaddy42 on November 23, 2016, 11:59:00 AM

Well, if they're celebrating not just IAW, but that whole era, that includes DLPM, ACOS, TLF and Eve (surprisingly not mentioned here) as well.


Eve is from Awake era, not I&W..
Eve wasn't recorded until the recording sessions for Awake.  But it very much dates to the I&W period, and was performed on the I&W touring cycles.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: kingshmegland on November 23, 2016, 12:10:42 PM

Well, if they're celebrating not just IAW, but that whole era, that includes DLPM, ACOS, TLF and Eve (surprisingly not mentioned here) as well.


Eve is from Awake era, not I&W..
Eve wasn't recorded until the recording sessions for Awake.  But it very much dates to the I&W period, and was performed on the I&W touring cycles.

And some of us can confirm since we saw it live on the I&W tour. ;D
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: bosk1 on November 23, 2016, 12:20:58 PM

Well, if they're celebrating not just IAW, but that whole era, that includes DLPM, ACOS, TLF and Eve (surprisingly not mentioned here) as well.


Eve is from Awake era, not I&W..
Eve wasn't recorded until the recording sessions for Awake.  But it very much dates to the I&W period, and was performed on the I&W touring cycles.

Correct.  And as far as ACOS, the band originally intended for the original version to be included on I&W. 
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: gzarruk on November 23, 2016, 02:00:55 PM
Yep, they played Eve a lot with Kevin before they recorded it on the Awake sessions. Also, ACOS had an earlier version that was intended to appear on IAW, just lile Bosk said, but had to cut it, they also performed it live a few times.

There's footage from both songs being played on the IAW tour on Youtube  :biggrin:

What I don't understand is, they played Eve a lot with both Kevin and Derek, but after Jordan joined, they never ever played it, not even once. It's not like it is a very hard/technical piece, and, even like that, that would be very easy for him. Makes me wonder why they never played it again  :huh:
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: JediKnight1969 on November 23, 2016, 02:12:06 PM
1st set - I&W full

2nd set:

-You not me
-Burning my soul
-Hell´s kitchen
-Lines in the sand
-Take away my pain
-Just let me breathe
-Anna Lee
-A change of seasons

Encore:

-The glass prison
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: ToT-147 on November 23, 2016, 04:23:32 PM
I knew all that.. Was just pointing out that the only two actual songs to be consider as part of I&W, besides the eight tracks that made it to the album, are DLPM and TLF.. I mean, only these would be the songs, because they're celebrating 25 years of "Images and Words - the album", and not "the Images and Words era" (which is way more extended, thus it wouldn't be much sense to even think of an aniversary of that -a long and pretty much undeterminated period-)..

And while it is true that ACoS original version dates from several years before 1995, that's the year they finally recorded it, and it'd be more logical if they celebrate its anniversary according that date (I don't remember JLB mentioning ACoS 20 years last year when they played Innocence, but that was probably because they played the song right after CiaW, and then righ away they linked it to BMS..) And the same goes to Eve: they included it in The Silent Man's single, so that's its year of release.. To think of it as part of I&W it'd be the same as to think of Metropolis pt 2 (the song) as part of FII... while it was composed and meant to be included in FII, it didn't finally take part on it, and instead was developed in another album..

What I don't understand is, they played Eve a lot with both Kevin and Derek, but after Jordan joined, they never ever played it, not even once. It's not like it is a very hard/technical piece, and, even like that, that would be very easy for him. Makes me wonder why they never played it again  :huh:

I'd say that had to do with Portnoy restriction of "we don't play any KM song"... and Eve was one of them, along with WFS and SDVest.. As to why they don't play it now that MP's not in the band, probably because: they have a lot of songs to choose to play live, it's a bonus track after all, ... or they just don't like it.. :-\
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: bosk1 on November 23, 2016, 04:34:59 PM
I knew all that.. Was just pointing out that the only two actual songs to be consider as part of I&W, besides the eight tracks that made it to the album, are DLPM and TLF.. I mean, only these would be the songs, because they're celebrating 25 years of "Images and Words - the album", and not "the Images and Words era" (which is way more extended, thus it wouldn't be much sense to even think of an aniversary of that -a long and pretty much undeterminated period-).

???  How are DLPM and TLF "part of I&W?"  They aren't.  They were written during the lead-up to I&W, but so was ACOS, for example.  Those songs are all on equal footing in terms of being from that era. 

What I don't understand is, they played Eve a lot with both Kevin and Derek, but after Jordan joined, they never ever played it, not even once. It's not like it is a very hard/technical piece, and, even like that, that would be very easy for him. Makes me wonder why they never played it again  :huh:

I'd say that had to do with Portnoy restriction of "we don't play any KM song"... and Eve was one of them, along with WFS and SDVest.. As to why they don't play it now that MP's not in the band, probably because: they have a lot of songs to choose to play live, it's a bonus track after all, ... or they just don't like it.. :-\

No, you are misstating Portnoy.  He never said "we don't play any KM song."  He said, basically, Space Dye Vest is a "Kevin Moore song, not really a Dream Theater song" because Kevin wrote the entire thing himself and brought it in, and it didn't really match the vibe of what they were doing as a band.  He has never said anything about not playing any songs that KM wrote or contributed to.  They have played a bunch of others through the years.  I think it is likely just what you said at the end of your post in terms of it just being a song they don't like very much, and there are plenty of others to choose from.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: gzarruk on November 23, 2016, 04:50:44 PM
What I tried to say is, if they don't like it, why play it lots of times before the lineup change? it's not like Jordan joined and then they suddenly don't like the song. They already had a couple full albums and a few demos/extra songs to play, but chose to play Eve instead. It might be due to Portnoy's excessive control over the sets and stuff, but I still it doesn't make sense  :huh:

Anyway, even if they decide to play Eve or not, they should add at least a couple of instrumental songs to the setlist, imo, so they can give James a break during the show. Either that or songs with very long instrumental breaks (Outcry, anyone?)  ;D

If they add instrumentals, I would LOVE to see SOC get some love, it's one of their best :metal
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: ToT-147 on November 23, 2016, 06:05:28 PM
???  How are DLPM and TLF "part of I&W?"  They aren't.  They were written during the lead-up to I&W, but so was ACOS, for example.  Those songs are all on equal footing in terms of being from that era. 

I mean they're part of that album in some way, as bonus tracks at least.. ACoS and Eve don't count as that, because they were released years after, in a EP format one, and in a single the other.. They're equal about being from the I&W era, yes, but they're not in terms of what really matters here: DT celebrating 25 years of I&W, the album, not the "era"..

No, you are misstating Portnoy.  He never said "we don't play any KM song."  He said, basically, Space Dye Vest is a "Kevin Moore song, not really a Dream Theater song" because Kevin wrote the entire thing himself and brought it in, and it didn't really match the vibe of what they were doing as a band.  He has never said anything about not playing any songs that KM wrote or contributed to.  They have played a bunch of others through the years.  I think it is likely just what you said at the end of your post in terms of it just being a song they don't like very much, and there are plenty of others to choose from.

Either way, is pretty much the same, because I was talking only about the songs that KM composed by his own.. Obviously not about the ones that he helped to make.. And even so, yeah, I know they played WFS several times without KM in the band, but Eve and Space Dye Vest demonstrate well that it was Portnoy's decision..

What I tried to say is, if they don't like it, why play it lots of times before the lineup change? it's not like Jordan joined and then they suddenly don't like the song. They already had a couple full albums and a few demos/extra songs to play, but chose to play Eve instead. It might be due to Portnoy's excessive control over the sets and stuff, but I still it doesn't make sense  :huh:

I don't find it something that hard to guess or understand.. The track was created by KM, and it's obvious that he liked it, but maybe he was the only to like it, or at least the only guy who claimed to play it live.. Once he leave, they hadn't any reason to play it, except the fact that it was, after all, a DT piece that probably have fans who like it..
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: bosk1 on November 23, 2016, 06:40:26 PM
???  How are DLPM and TLF "part of I&W?"  They aren't.  They were written during the lead-up to I&W, but so was ACOS, for example.  Those songs are all on equal footing in terms of being from that era. 

I mean they're part of that album in some way, as bonus tracks at least.. ACoS and Eve don't count as that, because they were released years after, in a EP format one, and in a single the other.. They're equal about being from the I&W era, yes, but they're not in terms of what really matters here: DT celebrating 25 years of I&W, the album, not the "era"..

What are you talking about?  They are not and have never been "bonus tracks" from that album.  Not in any way, shape, or form.  They were "lost" tracks that never even got released on official releases at all.  Eve was only released as a B-side.  ACOS was supposed to have been on I&W if it was up to the band.  They were ready to put it on that album and wanted it on that album.  You aren't making sense.

No, you are misstating Portnoy.  He never said "we don't play any KM song."  He said, basically, Space Dye Vest is a "Kevin Moore song, not really a Dream Theater song" because Kevin wrote the entire thing himself and brought it in, and it didn't really match the vibe of what they were doing as a band.  He has never said anything about not playing any songs that KM wrote or contributed to.  They have played a bunch of others through the years.  I think it is likely just what you said at the end of your post in terms of it just being a song they don't like very much, and there are plenty of others to choose from.

Either way, is pretty much the same, because I was talking only about the songs that KM composed by his own.. Obviously not about the ones that he helped to make.. And even so, yeah, I know they played WFS several times without KM in the band, but Eve and Space Dye Vest demonstrate well that it was Portnoy's decision..

It is the same in terms of him likely being one of the most outspoken.  But your argument was that he is somehow against any "KM song," and that clearly is not the case.  He wanted them to play Eve, and they played it.  He didn't want to play SDV, and nobody else really did either, so they didn't play it.  You tried to make it about being anti-KM songs, and it isn't.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: ToT-147 on November 23, 2016, 07:48:21 PM
What are you talking about?  They are not and have never been "bonus tracks" from that album.  Not in any way, shape, or form.  They were "lost" tracks that never even got released on official releases at all.  Eve was only released as a B-side.  ACOS was supposed to have been on I&W if it was up to the band.  They were ready to put it on that album and wanted it on that album.  You aren't making sense.

Ok, they aren't bonus tracks, altough they are different in the way you just said.. But that was never my point; I just mentioned that to separate DLPM and TLF from ACoS and Eve.. My point is that you're all talking about those four songs in the vein "they're celebrating something about I&W, so they should play those songs too, because they're from I&W era".. The problem with these spectation is that, again, the celebration is about I&W, not its "era".. And while it'd make sense if they play, beside the whole album, DLPM or TLF (because they're what Raise the Knife is in FII, and they played this song as representative of that album in Score), it wouldn't make sense if they play Eve or ACoS as part of the "Images, Words and Beyond" setlist, because they already are in different DT releases: a single and an EP respectively.. Get it now?.. ;)

It is the same in terms of him likely being one of the most outspoken.  But your argument was that he is somehow against any "KM song," and that clearly is not the case.  He wanted them to play Eve, and they played it.  He didn't want to play SDV, and nobody else really did either, so they didn't play it.  You tried to make it about being anti-KM songs, and it isn't.

No.. That's what you interpreted.. I didn't said he was "against" KM's songs.. I just say what I read somewhere in this very forum more than once... that was his decision stop playing those two songs because they were KM's compositios.. I didn't said (because I couldn't remember; I remember it now though) the reason why he made that decision.. Like the previous matter, I don't really see the difference between what I'm saying and what you're saying.. :huh:
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: OpenYourEyes311 on November 23, 2016, 10:03:10 PM
Both To Live Forever and Eve were performed in 1993 on the Images Tour. Then they both were released in 1994 as B-Sides to singles from Awake (TLF on the Lie single, Eve on The Silent Man). To separate them at all is flawed logic. They can be considered as I&W 'era' songs or Awake 'era' songs, but saying that one is I&W and one is Awake is just wrong.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: bosk1 on November 23, 2016, 11:44:31 PM
Yeah, exactly.  But to really get back to the main topic, let me just say that the "Images & Words" part of the set is going to be ONLY Images & Words.  To the extent ANY of those other four songs are going to be played (and I am not saying they are or are not), they would be part of the "and beyond" part of the set.  ;)
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: Pragmaticcircus on November 24, 2016, 04:14:21 AM
Can they play UAGM twice in the set?  :metal
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: gzarruk on November 24, 2016, 04:44:27 AM
Yeah, exactly.  But to really get back to the main topic, let me just say that the "Images & Words" part of the set is going to be ONLY Images & Words.  To the extent ANY of those other four songs are going to be played (and I am not saying they are or are not), they would be part of the "and beyond" part of the set.  ;)

I know the reason of the tour is to celebrate IAW, but looks like the "beyond" part is going to be the most exciting part for all the fans. Really can't wait to see what they come up with, even though I won't have any remote chance of seeing them live  :-\

If we talk about setlists in general, I think they've made GREAT setlists after MP left. The've repeated a couple songs from tour to tour, but still managed to present something interesting and balanced between old and new songs (excluding the TA tour). Their 30th ann. set last year was pretty cool too  :) I wish they released an audio compilation of tracks from that tour, the same way they did with Happy Holidays in 2013.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: KevShmev on November 24, 2016, 07:43:16 AM


If we talk about setlists in general, I think they've made GREAT setlists after MP left. The've repeated a couple songs from tour to tour, but still managed to present something interesting and balanced between old and new songs (excluding the TA tour).

Agreed.  By my count, they've played 77 different original songs live since Mangini joined the band (not counting False Awakening Suite, which they didn't actually play, or the NOMAC tracks, which also aren't actually played live), which is pretty impressive. Now, one could argue that that number is skewed in a high direction by TA having so many songs, but they played a wide variety of songs on the ADTOE tour, the Along for the Ride tour featured only two songs they played at all on the ADTOE tour, and obviously most of the current tour has been nothing but the new album.  If you've seen them on every tour in the last 5-6 years, you've gotten to see a lot of different Dream Theater songs played. :coolio
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: thosava on November 24, 2016, 08:11:32 AM
I've been to two DT shows, the "self titled" tour and The Astonishing Tour. This is like a dream come true, to be able to see I&W in full as i haven't even seen a single song from that album live before. I'm hoping for both ACoS and Octavaium, but even just one of them would make me incredibly happy. Have they ever played two 20-minute songs in a single set before? (I know they've played SDOIT and Octavarium, but SDOIT is more like shorter songs that flow together). Is there even a point in hoping for both ACoS and Octavarium?
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: ToT-147 on November 24, 2016, 08:28:24 AM
Both To Live Forever and Eve were performed in 1993 on the Images Tour. Then they both were released in 1994 as B-Sides to singles from Awake (TLF on the Lie single, Eve on The Silent Man). To separate them at all is flawed logic. They can be considered as I&W 'era' songs or Awake 'era' songs, but saying that one is I&W and one is Awake is just wrong.

First bold line: okay, now THAT was the fact I didn't know..
Second bold line: nope, I never said that.. But let's leave there..

Yeah, exactly.  But to really get back to the main topic, let me just say that the "Images & Words" part of the set is going to be ONLY Images & Words.  To the extent ANY of those other four songs are going to be played (and I am not saying they are or are not), they would be part of the "and beyond" part of the set.  ;)

At some point I was actually about to speculate something about that to make an example.. ;D Now that you're saying it, it totally makes even more sense.. STILL, I hope they play ACoS...

By my count, they've played 77 different original songs live since Mangini joined the band (not counting False Awakening Suite, which they didn't actually play, or the NOMAC tracks, which also aren't actually played live), which is pretty impressive. Now, one could argue that that number is skewed in a high direction by TA having so many songs, but they played a wide variety of songs on the ADTOE tour, the Along for the Ride tour featured only two songs they played at all on the ADTOE tour, and obviously most of the current tour has been nothing but the new album.  If you've seen them on every tour in the last 5-6 years, you've gotten to see a lot of different Dream Theater songs played. :coolio

My count says 85 (and still not counting FAS and the NOMACs), and I'm not counting Innocence, About to Crash and TTtStA/WIMH.. So even more impressive.. I've seen them precisely all these last tours (with MP just saw them in 2010)... and that includes LaLP too!... so I can't really for ask anything else.. :azn:
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: KevShmev on November 24, 2016, 10:17:03 AM
77 or 85, it's a lot. :P :lol

I know some are up in arms about the set lists not rotating from night to night anymore, but like I have said before, while it was fun to check online to see what they played every night, it could be very frustrating to see certain treats on a tour only get played at a few shows or missing out on a song you wanted to hear because it was the odd night in its rotation.  And most people do not have the money or job to where they can travel to see a bunch of shows per tour.  Think of Space Dye Vest on the Along for the Ride tour. Instead of it being a special treat that only a handful of cities got, which might have been the case 10 years ago (had it been played then), it was played at every show and fans everywhere go to see it.  :hat
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: Lalin1974 on November 24, 2016, 03:34:49 PM
The opening song is not one I would have picked in a million years as an "opener."  But that's all I'll say about that.

I would love to see them play The Killing Hand as I have always preferred JLBs version more than Dominici's.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: thosava on November 25, 2016, 02:49:27 AM
This would be my dream-setlist:

Set 1: (about 58 minutes)

-A Change of Seasons
-The Glass Prison
-The Gift of Music
-A New Beginning
-Moment of Betrayal
-Our New World

Set 2: (about 57 minutes)

-Pull Me Under
-Another Day
-Take the Time
-Surrounded
-Metropolis Pt. 1: The Miracle and the Sleeper
-Under a Glass Moon
-Wait for Sleep
-Learning to Live

Encore: (about 24 minutes)

-Octavarium

I tried to keep it a little bit realistic by including four of the best songs from The Astonishing, and i know that the chance of them playing ACoS + Octavarium is very small. As far as i know this setlist only includes four new songs for Mike Mangini to learn (ACoS, Glass Prison, Take the Time and Octavarium).
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: Eldomm on November 25, 2016, 03:38:49 AM
This would be my dream-setlist:

Set 1: (about 58 minutes)

-A Change of Seasons
-The Glass Prison
-The Gift of Music
-A New Beginning
-Moment of Betrayal
-Our New World

Set 2: (about 57 minutes)

-Pull Me Under
-Another Day
-Take the Time
-Surrounded
-Metropolis Pt. 1: The Miracle and the Sleeper
-Under a Glass Moon
-Wait for Sleep
-Learning to Live

Encore: (about 24 minutes)

-Octavarium

I tried to keep it a little bit realistic by including four of the best songs from The Astonishing, and i know that the chance of them playing ACoS + Octavarium is very small. As far as i know this setlist only includes four new songs for Mike Mangini to learn (ACoS, Glass Prison, Take the Time and Octavarium).

Not bad, not bad... ;D :tup
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: krands85 on November 25, 2016, 04:20:18 AM
This would be my dream-setlist:

Set 1: (about 58 minutes)

-A Change of Seasons
-The Glass Prison
-The Gift of Music
-A New Beginning
-Moment of Betrayal
-Our New World

Set 2: (about 57 minutes)

-Pull Me Under
-Another Day
-Take the Time
-Surrounded
-Metropolis Pt. 1: The Miracle and the Sleeper
-Under a Glass Moon
-Wait for Sleep
-Learning to Live

Encore: (about 24 minutes)

-Octavarium

I tried to keep it a little bit realistic by including four of the best songs from The Astonishing, and i know that the chance of them playing ACoS + Octavarium is very small. As far as i know this setlist only includes four new songs for Mike Mangini to learn (ACoS, Glass Prison, Take the Time and Octavarium).

Not bad, not bad... ;D :tup
Yeah that would be phenomenal! I could do without Our New World, but other than that -  :metal :metal :coolio
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: rumborak on November 25, 2016, 06:23:05 AM
I just saw that DT are playing two consecutive nights in Trondheim, Norway. Seems an odd choice, even with an IAW night I somewhat doubt people will be running down the door.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: thosava on November 25, 2016, 06:29:43 AM
I just saw that DT are playing two consecutive nights in Trondheim, Norway. Seems an odd choice, even with an IAW night I somewhat doubt people will be running down the door.
Yeah, but the place they'll be playing only takes 1200 people. I thought this was a weird choice too.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: chwik on November 25, 2016, 06:35:45 AM
I just saw that DT are playing two consecutive nights in Trondheim, Norway. Seems an odd choice, even with an IAW night I somewhat doubt people will be running down the door.

Actually, both shows sold out within four minutes in Trondheim. I got lucky yesterday at the presale (special thanks to my girlfriend :heart). Row four from the stage right in the middle in a thight concert hall with a capacity of 1300.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: gzarruk on November 25, 2016, 07:12:42 AM
This would be my dream-setlist:

Set 1: (about 58 minutes)

-A Change of Seasons
-The Glass Prison
-The Gift of Music
-A New Beginning
-Moment of Betrayal
-Our New World

Set 2: (about 57 minutes)

-Pull Me Under
-Another Day
-Take the Time
-Surrounded
-Metropolis Pt. 1: The Miracle and the Sleeper
-Under a Glass Moon
-Wait for Sleep
-Learning to Live

Encore: (about 24 minutes)

-Octavarium

I tried to keep it a little bit realistic by including four of the best songs from The Astonishing, and i know that the chance of them playing ACoS + Octavarium is very small. As far as i know this setlist only includes four new songs for Mike Mangini to learn (ACoS, Glass Prison, Take the Time and Octavarium).

How do you know there are only going to be 4 new songs for MM?  :o

Your setlist is really amazing, but, reading some of Bosk's posts here, I think they'll be adding at least one song they've never ever played live before, and all the songs on your setlist have been played live by them at some point. That makes me think more of The Bigger Picture and Surrender to Reason. Also, I think they might add at least one FII track, since it will be it's 20th anniversary  :)
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: thosava on November 25, 2016, 07:14:10 AM
How do you know there are only going to be 4 new songs for MM?  :o

Your setlist is really amazing, but, reading some of Bosk's posts here, I think they'll be adding at least one song they've never ever played live before, and all the songs on your setlist have been played live by them at some point. That makes me think more of The Bigger Picture and Surrender to Reason. Also, I think they might add at least one FII track, since it will be it's 20th anniversary  :)

I meant that my speculative setlist only includes 4 new songs for him. And there's probably room for Surrender to Reason/The Bigger Picture in set 1 of my setlist!
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: The Curious Orange on November 25, 2016, 07:33:09 AM
I just saw that DT are playing two consecutive nights in Trondheim, Norway. Seems an odd choice, even with an IAW night I somewhat doubt people will be running down the door.

There must be a big prog metal scene in Norway.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: rumborak on November 25, 2016, 07:56:04 AM
I just saw that DT are playing two consecutive nights in Trondheim, Norway. Seems an odd choice, even with an IAW night I somewhat doubt people will be running down the door.

There must be a big prog metal scene in Norway.

I wouldn't worry about it, it's not a big college town.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: MirrorMask on November 25, 2016, 08:19:38 AM
This would be my dream-setlist:

Set 1: (about 58 minutes)

-A Change of Seasons
-The Glass Prison
-The Gift of Music
-A New Beginning
-Moment of Betrayal
-Our New World

Set 2: (about 57 minutes)

-Pull Me Under
-Another Day
-Take the Time
-Surrounded
-Metropolis Pt. 1: The Miracle and the Sleeper
-Under a Glass Moon
-Wait for Sleep
-Learning to Live

Encore: (about 24 minutes)

-Octavarium

I tried to keep it a little bit realistic by including four of the best songs from The Astonishing, and i know that the chance of them playing ACoS + Octavarium is very small. As far as i know this setlist only includes four new songs for Mike Mangini to learn (ACoS, Glass Prison, Take the Time and Octavarium).

If it's a 3 hour show and Images and Words is 60 minutes and the encore, be it an epic or more songs, is to be expected around 30 minutes or slightly less, I think we may get a non-I&W set of more than one hour, almost 80-90 minutes.

I see them starting with A Change of Seasons, even though I expect is as an encore... still, ACOS would work as a shock opener, Octavarium is too slow and has the climax in the very end. It's 5 minutes of intro, then a slow acoustic piece and when it really start, it's "just" the Medicate section, not exactly a great opener. It works better as the last song, just as you put it.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: CharlesPL on November 25, 2016, 08:28:40 AM
My set :

1. The Glass Prison
2. Just Let Me Breathe
3. The Killing Hand
4. Hell's Kitchen
5. A New Beginning
6. Vacant
7. Stream of Consciousness
8. The Ministry of Lost Souls
9. The Spirit Carries On

-------------------------------

10. Images And Words
11. Don't Look Past Me (world premiere)
12. Eve
13. To Live Forever
14. Disappear

Encore

15. A Change of Seasons or Octavarium
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: thosava on November 25, 2016, 08:42:01 AM
If it's a 3 hour show and Images and Words is 60 minutes and the encore, be it an epic or more songs, is to be expected around 30 minutes or slightly less, I think we may get a non-I&W set of more than one hour, almost 80-90 minutes.

I see them starting with A Change of Seasons, even though I expect is as an encore... still, ACOS would work as a shock opener, Octavarium is too slow and has the climax in the very end. It's 5 minutes of intro, then a slow acoustic piece and when it really start, it's "just" the Medicate section, not exactly a great opener. It works better as the last song, just as you put it.

Yeah you hit the nail on the head with what i was thinking with my setlist with regards to ACoS and Octavarium. I think The Astonishing show was a bit shorter than a usual Evening With, but i guess they could go back to a longer set in the 2017 tour. Let's say they include Surrender to Reason or The Bigger Picture, and a song or two from FII.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: Dream Team on November 25, 2016, 09:45:40 AM
So on this first set of dates I see they have twice asked JLB to do this 3 nights in a row.  :facepalm:
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: KevShmev on November 25, 2016, 11:28:58 AM
I'm sure bosk1 will come in and lay this great idea to rest right away :lol, but it's high time they do Hell's Kitchen and Lines in the Sand back-to-back.  :metal
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: Prog Snob on November 25, 2016, 11:31:22 AM
My set :

1. The Glass Prison
2. Just Let Me Breathe
3. The Killing Hand
4. Hell's Kitchen
5. A New Beginning
6. Vacant
7. Stream of Consciousness
8. The Ministry of Lost Souls
9. The Spirit Carries On

-------------------------------

10. Images And Words
11. Don't Look Past Me (world premiere)
12. Eve
13. To Live Forever
14. Disappear

Encore

15. A Change of Seasons or Octavarium

THAT is an awesome setlist. Not only did you include ACOS, but you picked the best opening song. I've listened to hundreds of bootlegs and can unequivocally say that TGP is the one that always psyches me up the most. It has that energy and, dare I say it, power. You included Eve, TLF, and DON'T LOOK PAST ME. Ffs, play the song already. The only complaint is that you included James Let Me Brie. :lol
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: Polarbear on November 25, 2016, 11:37:11 AM
My set :

1. The Glass Prison
2. Just Let Me Breathe
3. The Killing Hand
4. Hell's Kitchen
5. A New Beginning
6. Vacant
7. Stream of Consciousness
8. The Ministry of Lost Souls
9. The Spirit Carries On

-------------------------------

10. Images And Words
11. Don't Look Past Me (world premiere)
12. Eve
13. To Live Forever
14. Disappear

Encore

15. A Change of Seasons or Octavarium

Not going to lie, that is the "shut up and take my money" setlist!

Only thing that's missing is Raise The Knife.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: thosava on November 25, 2016, 12:40:54 PM
My set :

1. The Glass Prison
2. Just Let Me Breathe
3. The Killing Hand
4. Hell's Kitchen
5. A New Beginning
6. Vacant
7. Stream of Consciousness
8. The Ministry of Lost Souls
9. The Spirit Carries On

-------------------------------

10. Images And Words
11. Don't Look Past Me (world premiere)
12. Eve
13. To Live Forever
14. Disappear

Encore

15. A Change of Seasons or Octavarium

I'm not gonna lie either, i would be pretty dissappointed if this was the set. I don't really care for tracks 2,3,4,6,11,12 and 13 at all. And tracks 7,8,9 and 14 aren't among my first choices for a set either.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: rumborak on November 25, 2016, 02:00:30 PM
So on this first set of dates I see they have twice asked JLB to do this 3 nights in a row.  :facepalm:

Three days of IAW in a row, what could possibly go wrong? :lol
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: KevShmev on November 25, 2016, 02:17:32 PM
The Glass Prison is long overdue to return, but I don't think that would go with bosk1's "I didn't think I'd ever see this as the first song at a concert" statement.

Maybe they'll come out and open up with In the Name of God. :metal
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: SeRoX on November 25, 2016, 03:02:42 PM
My set :

1. The Glass Prison
2. Just Let Me Breathe
3. The Killing Hand
4. Hell's Kitchen
5. A New Beginning
6. Vacant
7. Stream of Consciousness
8. The Ministry of Lost Souls
9. The Spirit Carries On

-------------------------------

10. Images And Words
11. Don't Look Past Me (world premiere)
12. Eve
13. To Live Forever
14. Disappear

Encore

15. A Change of Seasons or Octavarium

16. James LaBrie funeral.

I simply can't imagine JLB could perform this setlist 3 days in a row. Setlist awesome though but I want JLB alive too.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: TAC on November 25, 2016, 03:05:15 PM
16. James LaBrie funeral.
:lol
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: red barchetta on November 25, 2016, 10:13:27 PM
This is my setlist, it includes basically my favorite songs besides de set 1 of I &W.

Set one:  I & W

Second set:
A gift of music
Lines in the sand
Home
when your time has come
About to crash
In the presence of ennemies part 1
The spirit carries on
Breaking all illusions
Our new world

Encore:
Octavarium


That's a 2 hour show before the encore.  Not easy, had to cut some favorites but for me it would be a great setlist. And I have selected songs I have never witness live, only Breaking all illusions and Home I did see live. 
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: Mosh on November 25, 2016, 11:12:39 PM
I always thought it would be pretty funny if they alternated I&W songs with their supposed counterparts on ADTOE.

Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: Adami on November 25, 2016, 11:15:57 PM
I always thought it would be pretty funny if they alternated I&W songs with their supposed counterparts on ADTOE.

Or mess with everyone and play ADTOE in it's entirety instead.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: Ben_Jamin on November 26, 2016, 12:03:55 AM
Haha....

So then the encores are part of the setlist? Because those songs were played tighter than hell.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: Ben_Jamin on November 26, 2016, 12:11:11 AM
Just a hunch here, but I'm wondering if they may play a deep cut from WDADU   and / or the I&W demos. Something like The Killing Hand, The Ones Who Help To Set The Sun, or even Don't Look Past Me. If that's the case, perhaps the opener is one of these older, seldom played tracks.

Bosk mentioned that they would be sticking to a certain extent with songs that Mangini has played before because of rehearsal time, and he has played To Live Forever (granted, only once or twice). Just an idea. I've had terrible luck predicting DT setlists in the past, so... :rollin

You know, JR did post a Geoshred vid that sounded like The Ones Whom To Set The Sun...

If they do play that....my god I'm doing whatever I can to see a show.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: Ben_Jamin on November 26, 2016, 12:19:56 AM
Imagine Vacant being the opener into SOC.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: AboutToCrash on November 26, 2016, 12:35:13 AM
They have to bring the songs down 1 step - 1 1/2 step for images and words. He could easily damage his vocal chords if he constantly tries to hit high notes that you can tell his throat doesn't want to! If they want to maintain his voice they would do that, because I've just listened to images and words and constantly felt sorry for him regarding this tour... there is no shame in lowering the key! He struggled with I&W after the food poisoning incident and that was over 20 years ago.. I would enjoy the show a lot more if the notes were more comfortable for him (Exactly what rush did)
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: red barchetta on November 26, 2016, 02:12:50 AM
Clever thought. I wonder if they ever already lowered a song to make it easier for JLB?
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: Polarbear on November 26, 2016, 02:43:05 AM
This is also something i'd definitely go to see:

Set: 1
1. The Glass Prison
2. Afterlife
3. Bridges in the Sky
4. Misunderstood
5. Endless Sacrifice
6. Lines in the Sand
7. Fatal Tragedy
8. One Last Time
9. Finally Free

Set: 2
1. I&W in it's entirety
2. The Killing Hand
3. Hollow Years
4. Funeral For a Friend/ Love Lies Bleeding
5. Raise The Knife

Encore:
1. Eve/Hells Kitchen Medley
2. A Change of Seasons
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: Bertielee on November 26, 2016, 04:40:15 AM
This is also something i'd definitely go to see:

Set: 1
1. The Glass Prison
2. Afterlife
3. Bridges in the Sky
4. Misunderstood
5. Endless Sacrifice
6. Lines in the Sand
7. Fatal Tragedy
8. One Last Time
9. Finally Free

Set: 2
1. I&W in it's entirety
2. The Killing Hand
3. Hollow Years
4. Funeral For a Friend/ Love Lies Bleeding
5. Raise The Knife

Encore:
1. Eve/Hells Kitchen Medley
2. A Change of Seasons

No cover, please!

B.Lee
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: gzarruk on November 26, 2016, 06:39:30 AM
Definitely no covers or medleys either  :lol
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: ytserush on November 26, 2016, 08:24:26 AM
While I love the art on that poster, I wouldn't think about seeing this concert unless I know what the rest of the set looks like. A new song or two might make it worth it.

They probably have to do this to finance the next album though.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: ToT-147 on November 26, 2016, 11:57:10 AM
reading some of Bosk's posts here, I think they'll be adding at least one song they've never ever played live before, and all the songs on your setlist have been played live by them at some point. That makes me think more of The Bigger Picture and Surrender to Reason. Also, I think they might add at least one FII track, since it will be it's 20th anniversary  :)

I totally missed that, but you're right.. It'll be 6DoIT's 15th anniversary as well.. TGP must be in that setlist!.. :metal

And, about playing TBP and/or STR, well... there aren't more songs that they've never play live.... Except, you know... The Best of Times... but that's not happening.. Although we all want to see dat solo at least once before we die... by seeing that solo.. :lol

Octavarium is too slow and has the climax in the very end. It's 5 minutes of intro, then a slow acoustic piece and when it really start, it's "just" the Medicate section, not exactly a great opener.

You don't simply define that amazing section with those trivial words.. :police:

Maybe they'll come out and open up with In the Name of God. :metal

:omg: I was just thinking that the other day in the bus.. You read my mind..
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: TheAtliator on November 26, 2016, 12:13:36 PM
Clever thought. I wonder if they ever already lowered a song to make it easier for JLB?

They have never. And I hope they never do, it never sounds good on songs that are as intricate and have as many key changes as DT's. JLB makes the appropriate melody changes within the key if it's out of range.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: Ben_Jamin on November 26, 2016, 12:50:05 PM
Clever thought. I wonder if they ever already lowered a song to make it easier for JLB?

They have never. And I hope they never do, it never sounds good on songs that are as intricate and have as many key changes as DT's. JLB makes the appropriate melody changes within the key if it's out of range.

At least he tries as well, unlike most bands I've seen. They either don't bother or put out the mic for most hard parts.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: gzarruk on November 26, 2016, 02:49:15 PM
reading some of Bosk's posts here, I think they'll be adding at least one song they've never ever played live before, and all the songs on your setlist have been played live by them at some point. That makes me think more of The Bigger Picture and Surrender to Reason. Also, I think they might add at least one FII track, since it will be it's 20th anniversary  :)

I totally missed that, but you're right.. It'll be 6DoIT's 15th anniversary as well.. TGP must be in that setlist!.. :metal

And, about playing TBP and/or STR, well... there aren't more songs that they've never play live.... Except, you know... The Best of Times... but that's not happening.. Although we all want to see dat solo at least once before we die... by seeing that solo.. :lol

:lol TBOT has one of the most amazing Petrucci solos ever, but, besides the solo and the Rush-like intro, I don't really like the song that much. To me, it sounds like one of those moments where MP wanted to fit all his lyrics into a song, so they had to make it longer and longer to make room for them to fit. It sounds forced and anti climatic. Also, the lyrics aren't that great, imo.
... even though, after all that, we get THAT solo  :biggrin:

The other songs they haven't played live, if I'm not mistaken, are Don't Look Past Me and Raw Dog, but seeing TBP and STR is more likely :laugh:
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: ToT-147 on November 26, 2016, 03:27:49 PM
:lol TBOT has one of the most amazing Petrucci solos ever, but, besides the solo and the Rush-like intro, I don't really like the song that much. To me, it sounds like one of those moments where MP wanted to fit all his lyrics into a song, so they had to make it longer and longer to make room for them to fit. It sounds forced and anti climatic. Also, the lyrics aren't that great, imo.
... even though, after all that, we get THAT solo  :biggrin:

The other songs they haven't played live, if I'm not mistaken, are Don't Look Past Me and Raw Dog, but seeing TBP and STR is more likely :laugh:

Yeah, I don't like it so much either.. I mean, not as I like the rest of the songs on that album.. :heart

But I meant that that's the song that we know they won't ever play, unless MP comes back for a special show or something like that..

I don't see them playing DLPM or Raw Dog either, so I'm with you in that too..
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: TheAtliator on November 26, 2016, 03:31:32 PM
Outcry
Constant Motion
Surrender to Reason
Through My Words
Fatal Tragedy
Octavarium

--------intermission-----------

The Killing Hand
-
The Gift of Music
A Better Life
Three Days
Moment of Betrayal
-
Pull Me Under
Another Day
Take the Time
Surrounded
Metropolis Part 1
Under A Glass Moon
Wait For Sleep
Learning to Live

----encore-----
Erotomania
Voices
The Silent Man


....Dammit now I really wanna see them open with Outcry
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: gzarruk on November 26, 2016, 04:57:02 PM
:lol TBOT has one of the most amazing Petrucci solos ever, but, besides the solo and the Rush-like intro, I don't really like the song that much. To me, it sounds like one of those moments where MP wanted to fit all his lyrics into a song, so they had to make it longer and longer to make room for them to fit. It sounds forced and anti climatic. Also, the lyrics aren't that great, imo.
... even though, after all that, we get THAT solo  :biggrin:

The other songs they haven't played live, if I'm not mistaken, are Don't Look Past Me and Raw Dog, but seeing TBP and STR is more likely :laugh:

Yeah, I don't like it so much either.. I mean, not as I like the rest of the songs on that album.. :heart

But I meant that that's the song that we know they won't ever play, unless MP comes back for a special show or something like that..

I don't see them playing DLPM or Raw Dog either, so I'm with you in that too..

My bet is that MP will play the song with his Shattered Fortress thing and that'll be it. Hope he gets a guitarist that is able to make the solo justice or he'll be hated for all eternity  :lol


....Dammit now I really wanna see them open with Outcry

Indeed. Outcry is one of my favorite songs from ADTOE and would love to see them bring it back to the set
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: JediKnight1969 on November 26, 2016, 05:08:04 PM
I would love to see them open with Don't look past me.

Option 2: Just let me breathe.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: KevShmev on November 26, 2016, 06:22:18 PM


My bet is that MP will play the song with his Shattered Fortress thing and that'll be it. Hope he gets a guitarist that is able to make the solo justice or he'll be hated for all eternity  :lol


My guess at this point would be Eric Gillette.  His style is just like Petrucci's, and he has the chops to play the 12-step material.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: rumborak on November 26, 2016, 06:58:06 PM
Jim Gilette.

*drops mic*
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: gzarruk on November 26, 2016, 07:23:39 PM


My bet is that MP will play the song with his Shattered Fortress thing and that'll be it. Hope he gets a guitarist that is able to make the solo justice or he'll be hated for all eternity  :lol


My guess at this point would be Eric Gillette.  His style is just like Petrucci's, and he has the chops to play the 12-step material.

I would say Eric and Diejo Tejeida will be part of it. Not sure about the bassist or the vocalist, though.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: TAC on November 26, 2016, 07:26:08 PM
Who is Eric Gilette?
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: gzarruk on November 26, 2016, 07:32:21 PM
Who is Eric Gilette?

The Petrucci clone from... I mean... the guitarist for the new Neal Morse band  :biggrin:
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: TAC on November 26, 2016, 07:39:48 PM
Ok thanks. I had never heard of him.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: gzarruk on November 26, 2016, 08:20:34 PM
Going back to the possible setlists, I remember reading an interview with James where he said he wanted the band to play TTT, Disappear and TMOLS. Do you think any of the last two will make it to the set? Either one would be a great choice, I think  :)
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: KevShmev on November 26, 2016, 08:33:22 PM
The Ministry of Lost Souls is great to play if you want to put the audience to sleep.  That song is too long and too plodding; it just doesn't work live.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: gzarruk on November 26, 2016, 08:50:46 PM
The Ministry of Lost Souls is great to play if you want to put the audience to sleep.  That song is too long and too plodding; it just doesn't work live.

I like the song  :lol but I do get your point. What about Repentance? They only played it once, doesn't require too much effort from James, and the song is actually very cool. I imagine they will include at least one song from SC for it's 10 years and, if you remove all the samples from the end, it isn't that long  :biggrin:
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: ToT-147 on November 26, 2016, 09:44:56 PM
Going back to the possible setlists, I remember reading an interview with James where he said he wanted the band to play TTT, Disappear and TMOLS. Do you think any of the last two will make it to the set? Either one would be a great choice, I think  :)

Wow, do you have the link to that interview?.. I couldn't find it..

Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: Prog Snob on November 26, 2016, 09:48:47 PM
The Ministry of Lost Souls is great to play if you want to put the audience to sleep.  That song is too long and too plodding; it just doesn't work live.

It took me a while to really get into that song. Now, I love the solo and I love the lyrical content, but you're right about the momentum. It's not the best choice for a live song.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: Adami on November 26, 2016, 09:50:50 PM
I think if Ministry had a more smooth middle section and a less....I dunno....direct intro, it would be great. I really like the vocal sections and the music behind it.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: gzarruk on November 26, 2016, 10:00:05 PM
Going back to the possible setlists, I remember reading an interview with James where he said he wanted the band to play TTT, Disappear and TMOLS. Do you think any of the last two will make it to the set? Either one would be a great choice, I think  :)

Wow, do you have the link to that interview?.. I couldn't find it..

If I remember correctly, it was from last year, from the time they were playing the 30th anniversary shows, before they announced anything from TA. I remember I got excited about the posibility of those tracks being played again, but then they went full TA and didn't happen.

Couldn't find it, now, though  :-\ Guess i'll have to save the links next time I read something interesting like that on an interview. But, trust me, I'm not making this up  :lol
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: red barchetta on November 26, 2016, 10:10:40 PM
Clever thought. I wonder if they ever already lowered a song to make it easier for JLB?

They have never. And I hope they never do, it never sounds good on songs that are as intricate and have as many key changes as DT's. JLB makes the appropriate melody changes within the key if it's out of range.

Ok thanks, I understand your point of view.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: bosk1 on November 27, 2016, 12:50:56 AM
Yes, FII will be represented.  No, there will not be any covers.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: Prog Snob on November 27, 2016, 01:09:51 AM
It would be nice to hear Peruvian Skies again, or even New Millenium. Break out the stick!
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: thosava on November 27, 2016, 02:00:16 AM
Yes, FII will be represented.  No, there will not be any covers.

Am i then allowed to ask if the album "A Change of Seasons" is represented?   :angel:
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: Bertielee on November 27, 2016, 02:10:01 AM
Yes, FII will be represented.  No, there will not be any covers.

Phewww! I was afraid for a minute or two. Thanks for the clarification.

B.Lee
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: Mladen on November 27, 2016, 03:06:35 AM
I'd kill to see The Ministry of lost souls live.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: Prog Snob on November 27, 2016, 04:19:26 AM
Yes, FII will be represented.  No, there will not be any covers.

Am i then allowed to ask if the album "A Change of Seasons" is represented?   :angel:

Trick question. Let's see if he falls for it.  :lol
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: MirrorMask on November 27, 2016, 04:28:37 AM
Yes, FII will be represented.  No, there will not be any covers.

Am i then allowed to ask if the album "A Change of Seasons" is represented?   :angel:

He'd probably answer "yes, you're allowed"  ;D

Anyway, to anyone going crazy over the possible shock opener: maybe it's just Our New World. It's not entirely out of this world to kick the set up with a short rocker off the latest album. Then I'm all for being surprised with a badass epic as first song  :coolio
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: thosava on November 27, 2016, 04:47:50 AM
Yes, FII will be represented.  No, there will not be any covers.

Am i then allowed to ask if the album "A Change of Seasons" is represented?   :angel:

He'd probably answer "yes, you're allowed"  ;D

Anyway, to anyone going crazy over the possible shock opener: maybe it's just Our New World. It's not entirely out of this world to kick the set up with a short rocker off the latest album. Then I'm all for being surprised with a badass epic as first song  :coolio

It could be. But my guess is if they are playing songs from The Astonishing, that they will play them in order, like an Astonishing Suite. (Like they did with SFAM on the Along for the Ride tour.)
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: IDontNotDoThings on November 27, 2016, 05:07:41 AM
They're going to play all of the Astonishing but in a completely wrong order that makes no sense.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: IDontNotDoThings on November 27, 2016, 05:08:49 AM
1. Whispers On The Wind
2. Moment Of Betrayal
3. When Your Time Has Come
4. Chosen
5. Our New World
6. 2285 Entr'acte
7. Astonishing
8. The Answer
9. A Life Left Behind
10. The Path That Divides
11. The Hovering Sojourn
12. The Gift Of Music
13. Ravenskill
14. Begin Again
15. Three Days
16. A New Beginning
17. Machine Chatter
18. Descent Of The NOMACS
19. My Last Farewell
20. Dystopian Overture
21. Losing Faythe
22. Lord Nafaryus
23. Heaven's Cove
24. Hymn Of A Thousand Voices
25. A Saviour In The Square
26. Power Down
27. A Tempting Offer
28. Brother, Can You Hear Me
29. Act Of Faythe
30. The Road To Revolution
31. The X Aspect
32. Digital Discord
33. A Better Life
34. The Walking Shadow

Oh yeah & I&W's in there too or something. :corn
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: Fritzinger on November 28, 2016, 03:06:32 AM
I would absolutely love Raw Dog as an opener.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: devieira73 on November 28, 2016, 05:43:00 AM
I don't know if it was already asked to Bosk the following questions, but I have the curiosity to know (if he's allowed to aswer, of course):
1) There will be any b-side on the set list?
2) What albums won't be represented in the set list?
Thanks!
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: bosk1 on November 28, 2016, 10:36:29 AM
Great questions!
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: gzarruk on November 28, 2016, 10:50:23 AM
Great questions!

 :lol I knew it would end up like this. Come on, man, give us at least a tease for an album they won't play any songs from, so we could narrow the options just a little bit. My bet is they skip BC&SL completely.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: Sir GuitarCozmo on November 28, 2016, 10:54:16 AM
I just saw that DT are playing two consecutive nights in Trondheim, Norway. Seems an odd choice, even with an IAW night I somewhat doubt people will be running down the door.

Second set the second night will be a complete run through of Rush's - 2112 album.


I wouldn't worry about it, it's not a big college town.

I wanted you to know that the significance of this comment was not lost on everyone.  :lol
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: bosk1 on November 28, 2016, 11:04:09 AM
If memory serves, I think you are correct about Black Clouds.  But since, at least for now, we are only talking about Europe anyway, that isn't too bad if you consider the fact that, since Mangini joined, Europe has gotten ANTR, TSF, and TCOT.  And they played Wither and AROP on the BCSL tour.  So really, since the album has been released, Europe has gotten every song from that album with the exception of TBOT, which I'm not sure they will ever play anyway.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: devieira73 on November 28, 2016, 11:09:15 AM
Great questions!

 :lol :lol :tup
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: jsbru on November 28, 2016, 11:39:21 AM
So, to sum it all up, from Bosk's hints, it's pretty clear that I&W will be one full set, nothing more, nothing less.  And it's got to be Set 2, because otherwise the opening song would not be surprising.

Set 1 will have something from FII (unless that's in the encore).  Probably nothing from BC&SL.

MM is transcribing two "epic" songs, which fuel speculation of ACOS/Octavarium/6DOIT, but I guess it could maybe include A Mind Beside Itself, too.

But we also know that Set 1/encore will have some stuff MM has already played.  Some of that will likely be a few songs from TA.  That doesn't leave a ton of room for new/unexpected curveballs.  You have to think that one of the unplayed songs will be STR or TBP, too, because MM already knows those.

If they really wanted to go with the "throw red meat to the base" theme, I'd expect Glass Prison, Panic Attack, and maybe As I Am.  Throw in one of their early B-sides and maybe one off WDADU and everyone will be happy.

So Set 1/encore will consist of:
- 3-4 songs off TA
- Something the band has never played live (STR, TBP, a B-side)
- 2 "epics," however that is defined
- Something off FII

There's probably not enough room for both 6DOIT and ACOS in there.  In fact, if ACOS/Octavarium is the encore, there's only a limited amount of songs that can be in Set 1.  Maybe they kill two birds with one stone and Lines in the Sand is one of the "epics."  It's sort of long.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: gzarruk on November 28, 2016, 11:59:59 AM
If memory serves, I think you are correct about Black Clouds.  But since, at least for now, we are only talking about Europe anyway, that isn't too bad if you consider the fact that, since Mangini joined, Europe has gotten ANTR, TSF, and TCOT.  And they played Wither and AROP on the BCSL tour.  So really, since the album has been released, Europe has gotten every song from that album with the exception of TBOT, which I'm not sure they will ever play anyway.

Thanks for the info!  :)

Just to clarify, they never played ANTR live with Mangini, only at the audition. Also, Wither was played for their 30th anniversary tour (with Mangini), which was, wait for it... in Europe  :lol


So, to sum it all up, from Bosk's hints, it's pretty clear that I&W will be one full set, nothing more, nothing less.  And it's got to be Set 2, because otherwise the opening song would not be surprising.

Set 1 will have something from FII (unless that's in the encore).  Probably nothing from BC&SL.

MM is transcribing two "epic" songs, which fuel speculation of ACOS/Octavarium/6DOIT, but I guess it could maybe include A Mind Beside Itself, too.

But we also know that Set 1/encore will have some stuff MM has already played.  Some of that will likely be a few songs from TA.  That doesn't leave a ton of room for new/unexpected curveballs.  You have to think that one of the unplayed songs will be STR or TBP, too, because MM already knows those.

If they really wanted to go with the "throw red meat to the base" theme, I'd expect Glass Prison, Panic Attack, and maybe As I Am.  Throw in one of their early B-sides and maybe one off WDADU and everyone will be happy.

So Set 1/encore will consist of:
- 3-4 songs off TA
- Something the band has never played live (STR, TBP, a B-side)
- 2 "epics," however that is defined
- Something off FII

There's probably not enough room for both 6DOIT and ACOS in there.  In fact, if ACOS/Octavarium is the encore, there's only a limited amount of songs that can be in Set 1.  Maybe they kill two birds with one stone and Lines in the Sand is one of the "epics."  It's sort of long.

Thank you for doing that!  ;D
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: bosk1 on November 28, 2016, 12:11:41 PM
Just to clarify, they never played ANTR live with Mangini, only at the audition. Also, Wither was played for their 30th anniversary tour (with Mangini), which was, wait for it... in Europe  :lol

Oh, okay.  For some reason, I thought I remembered that they played ANTR at a couple of festival shows, but I could be misremembering. 

As for jsbru's surmising, not bad.  As far as "epics," keep in mind that the "mega-epics" you listed are not the only epics in the DT discography.  They have LOTS of epics (although the number will vary depending on your definition of "epic").

As far as the opening song, when I was first shown the set list (JP had it typed out on a document on his phone, and he was holding the phone showing it to me), the opener didn't initially really even register with me.  After I read the entire thing, either Maddi or JP (can't remember which now) asked what I thought of the opener, and I had to scroll back up to see what it was.  My reaction was basically, "Oh...OH, as an OPENER?  Huh. That's kinda cool.  I wouldn't have thought of that."
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: MirrorMask on November 28, 2016, 12:59:17 PM
MM is transcribing two "epic" songs, which fuel speculation of ACOS/Octavarium/6DOIT, but I guess it could maybe include A Mind Beside Itself, too.

Wasn't the quote "monster" songs? which can refer to anything, I'd put even Learning to Live in that list but they've played it some times during his first concerts with the band.

About the surprise opener, it can be a surprise for most of the reasons:
- It's a long epic that usually closes a set.
- It's a ballad or a slowish song.
- It's a random song that in indsight is good to start things off, but you'd never considered it as an opener.
- It's an instrumental... but why waste at the beginning some breathing time for James?
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: aprilethereal on November 28, 2016, 01:32:09 PM
About the surprise opener, it can be a surprise for most of the reasons:
- It's a long epic that usually closes a set.
- It's a ballad or a slowish song.
- It's a random song that in indsight is good to start things off, but you'd never considered it as an opener.
- It's an instrumental... but why waste at the beginning some breathing time for James?

Since bosk mentioned the opener "didn't initially really even register" with him, I'm guessing it might be a pretty short song, like Vacant for example. Although it would definitely be  a little weird to open with Vacant.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: TAC on November 28, 2016, 01:37:45 PM
Bosk, have they EVER opened with this song before?
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: bosk1 on November 28, 2016, 01:55:29 PM
Opened?  No.  And I think the reason it didn't register is that it has been played in recent years, and I knew it is a crowd pleaser.  So despite it being in the #1 slot, I just skimmed right past it without thinking.  Well, that and the fact that I think I was distracted by just the coolness of the fact that John Petrucci was sharing this private information on his phone directly with me, and it kinda took me off my game.  :lol
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: aprilethereal on November 28, 2016, 02:00:52 PM
it has been played in recent years, and I knew it is a crowd pleaser.

Calling it now, they're opening with WIMH/TTTSTA
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: TAC on November 28, 2016, 02:07:11 PM
  Well, that and the fact that I think I was distracted by just the coolness of the fact that John Petrucci was sharing this private information on his phone directly with me, and it kinda took me off my game.  :lol

Totally understandable!


And I'm calling Breaking All Illusions. Or On The Backs Of Angels.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: Ben_Jamin on November 28, 2016, 02:13:48 PM
Blind Faith would be nice.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: HolidaysAnoraks on November 28, 2016, 02:14:23 PM
Just an idea, but perhaps the show opens with an acoustic / stripped down set. They did something similar in the middle of some of the ADTOE shows (I believe they rotated between Far From Heaven / Wait For Sleep and Beneath the Surface / The Silent Man).

Kansas is doing the same thing with their 40th Anniversary Leftoverture shows, and Porcupine Tree opened those special Radio City / Royal Albert Hall shows on the Incident tour with an acoustic set. Just pulling out these examples because DT's setlist structure has been influenced by other bands in the past (although mainly Rush). Both the Porcupine Tree and Kansas setlists feature an opening acoustic set of 4-5 songs, followed by an electric set, then a second set of an entire album followed by an encore.

If DT opened with something acoustic  like Hollow Years or The Spirit Carries On, that would definitely be unexpected.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: TAC on November 28, 2016, 02:16:25 PM
I'm just glad chaossystem isn't around for this. We would've had about 25 possible setlists. ;D
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: thosava on November 28, 2016, 02:58:19 PM
Totally understandable!

And I'm calling Breaking All Illusions. Or On The Backs Of Angels.

Breaking all Illusions was the first to cross my mind too! And i guess The Glass Prison could classify as a "monster song". I'm guessing we'll get TGP and ACOS.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: Adami on November 28, 2016, 03:04:55 PM
A fan favorite that wouldn't be expected to open?

The Spirit Carries On.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: TheCountOfNYC on November 28, 2016, 03:25:07 PM
They could throw a curveball and open with TDoE. It's definitely a crowd pleaser (the fans went nuts for it when I saw them on the AFtR tour) and an instrumental would certainly be unexpected.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: TheAtliator on November 28, 2016, 03:27:24 PM
Full list of DT songs played with Mike Mangini:

Fortune in Lies
Ytse Jam
Afterlife
To Live Forever
Pull Me Under
Another Day
Surrounded
Metropolis Part 1
Under a Glass Moon
Wait For Sleep
Learning to Live
6:00
Caught in a Web
Silent Man
The Mirror
Lie
Lifting Shadows off a Dream
Scarred
ACOS II - Innocence
Space Dye Vest
Burning My Soul
Peruvian Skies
Trial of Tears
Overture 1928/ Strange Deja Vu
Through My Words / Fatal Tragedy
The Dance of Eternity
The Spirit Carries On
Finally Free
The Great Debate
About to Crash
War Inside My Head
Test that Stumped them All
As I Am
Endless Sacrifice
The Root of all Evil
These Walls
Panic Attack
Forsaken
Constant Motion
The Dark Eternal Night
Wither
The Shattered Fortress
The Count of Tuscany
On The Backs of Angels
Build Me Up Break Me Down
Lost Not Forgotten
This is The Life
Bridges in the Sky
Outcry
Far From Heaven
Breaking All Illusions
Beneath The Surface
The Enemy Inside
The Looking Glass
Enigma Machine
Behind the Veil
Along For the Ride
Illumination Theory
The Astonishing (full)


Full list of non-IAW DT songs played with Mike Mangini that they've never before opened with (possible "crowd pleasers" in green):

Ytse Jam
To Live Forever
6:00 (I think...?)
Caught in a Web
Silent Man
The Mirror
Lie
Lifting Shadows off a Dream
Scarred
Space Dye Vest
ACOS II - Innocence
Burning My Soul
Peruvian Skies
Trial of Tears
Through My Words / Fatal Tragedy
The Dance of Eternity <--- Would be neat!
The Spirit Carries On
Finally Free
The Great Debate
War Inside My Head <--- A good prediction!
Test that Stumped them All
Endless Sacrifice <--- This would be neat and unexpected!
These Walls
Panic Attack (have they never opened with this??)
Forsaken
The Dark Eternal Night
Wither
The Shattered Fortress
The Count of Tuscany
On The Backs of Angels <--- This could work!
Build Me Up Break Me Down
Lost Not Forgotten
This is The Life
Outcry <-----Would be my fav opener :)
Far From Heaven
Breaking All Illusions
Beneath The Surface
The Looking Glass
Enigma Machine
Behind the Veil
Along For the Ride
Illumination Theory
The Astonishing (full)
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: MirrorMask on November 28, 2016, 03:36:11 PM
Breaking All Illusions would be badass!!!
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: jsbru on November 28, 2016, 03:57:36 PM
MM is transcribing two "epic" songs, which fuel speculation of ACOS/Octavarium/6DOIT, but I guess it could maybe include A Mind Beside Itself, too.
Wasn't the quote "monster" songs? which can refer to anything, I'd put even Learning to Live in that list but they've played it some times during his first concerts with the band.

You are right...I got confused and was calling it "epic."

https://twitter.com/ManginiMike/status/798421746638618624

Quote
About the surprise opener, it can be a surprise for most of the reasons:
- It's a long epic that usually closes a set.

ACOS would fit here, but then again, bosk said it was something they've played recently.  When you combine the "played recently" hint with the fact that MM was transcribing the monster songs, it doesn't fit very well that the opener is one of the monster songs.  But whether "monster" means the same as "epic," we can't be sure.

Quote
- It's a ballad or a slowish song.

It's possible.  Disappear based on James saying he loved that song?  It hasn't really been all that recent since they've played that to my knowledge.  Along for the Ride?  This is the Life?  The Spirit Carries On?  Vacant?

Quote
- It's an instrumental... but why waste at the beginning some breathing time for James?

This is why I suspect if Raw Dog is the surprise previously unplayed track, it's not going to be the opener.  It would be weird to open without James, and that would also probably stand out more to bosk, and also, of course, they haven't played that recently.

Quote
- It's a random song that in indsight is good to start things off, but you'd never considered it as an opener.

I think this is the highest probability.  Think of songs they've played somewhat recently that aren't necessarily epics that would fall into this category.  That aren't album openers, either, since that wouldn't be all that surprising.  One of the ballads could fit into this category, too.

It's probably not from TA, since that wouldn't be all that surprising or unusual.  Probably not DT 12, because neither TEI or LG would be surprising as openers, and STR and TBP have not been played recently.  Maybe AFTR?

The only ones that would be unusual from ADTOE would be TITL, FFH, or BTS.  Definitely not OTBOA (it already opens an album), or BITS (they already opened with that).  Hard to see how any other song from that album would be notable.

It's not from BC&SL.  I don't know of any song from SC that would make me think twice as an opener.  Nor Octavarium, unless it is the title track.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: jsbru on November 28, 2016, 04:02:47 PM
Full list of DT songs played with Mike Mangini:

Fortune in Lies
Ytse Jam
Afterlife
Pull Me Under
Another Day
Surrounded
Metropolis Part 1
Under a Glass Moon
Wait For Sleep
Learning to Live
6:00
Caught in a Web
Silent Man
The Mirror
Lie
Lifting Shadows off a Dream
Scarred
Space Dye Vest
Burning My Soul
Peruvian Skies
Trial of Tears
Overture 1928/ Strange Deja Vu
Through My Words / Fatal Tragedy
The Dance of Eternity
The Spirit Carries On
Finally Free
The Great Debate
About to Crash
War Inside My Head
Test that Stumped them All
As I Am
Endless Sacrifice
The Root of all Evil
These Walls
Panic Attack
Forsaken
Constant Motion
The Dark Eternal Night
Wither
The Shattered Fortress
The Count of Tuscany
On The Backs of Angels
Build Me Up Break Me Down
Lost Not Forgotten
This is The Life
Bridges in the Sky
Outcry
Far From Heaven
Breaking All Illusions
Beneath The Surface
The Enemy Inside
The Looking Glass
Enigma Machine
Behind the Veil
Along For the Ride
Illumination Theory
The Astonishing (full)


Full list of non-IAW DT songs played with Mike Mangini that they've never before opened with (possible "crowd pleasers" in green):

Ytse Jam
6:00 (I think...?)
Caught in a Web
Silent Man
The Mirror
Lie
Lifting Shadows off a Dream
Scarred
Space Dye Vest
Burning My Soul
Peruvian Skies
Trial of Tears
Through My Words / Fatal Tragedy
The Dance of Eternity <--- Would be neat!
The Spirit Carries On
Finally Free
The Great Debate
War Inside My Head <--- A good prediction!
Test that Stumped them All
Endless Sacrifice <--- This would be neat and unexpected!
These Walls
Panic Attack (have they never opened with this??)
Forsaken
The Dark Eternal Night
Wither
The Shattered Fortress
The Count of Tuscany
On The Backs of Angels <--- This could work!
Build Me Up Break Me Down
Lost Not Forgotten
This is The Life
Outcry <-----Would be my fav opener :)
Far From Heaven
Breaking All Illusions
Beneath The Surface
The Looking Glass
Enigma Machine
Behind the Veil
Along For the Ride
Illumination Theory
The Astonishing (full)

Thanks...this is just what we needed.  Of the ones in green, I'd cross off 6:00 and OTBOA, because it's in no way notable that they'd open the set with a song that also opens an album.

I think The Mirror and Spirit Carries On are really good guesses.  BAI is my personal favorite song since Trail of Tears, to it doesn't seem unusual at all that they'd open with it, but I might be biased. :)
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: jsbru on November 28, 2016, 04:11:39 PM
As for Panic Attack, I think there's a high probability they play it, but it doesn't seem peculiar in any way as an opener.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: ToT-147 on November 28, 2016, 05:21:26 PM
- It's an instrumental... but why waste at the beginning some breathing time for James?

You mean just like in the current tour?.. ;D


Full list of DT songs played with Mike Mangini:

Fortune in Lies
Ytse Jam
Afterlife
Pull Me Under
Another Day
Surrounded
Metropolis Part 1
Under a Glass Moon
Wait For Sleep
Learning to Live
6:00
Caught in a Web
Silent Man
The Mirror
Lie
Lifting Shadows off a Dream
Scarred
Space Dye Vest
Burning My Soul
Peruvian Skies
Trial of Tears
Overture 1928/ Strange Deja Vu
Through My Words / Fatal Tragedy
The Dance of Eternity
The Spirit Carries On
Finally Free
The Great Debate
About to Crash
War Inside My Head
Test that Stumped them All
As I Am
Endless Sacrifice
The Root of all Evil
These Walls
Panic Attack
Forsaken
Constant Motion
The Dark Eternal Night
Wither
The Shattered Fortress
The Count of Tuscany
On The Backs of Angels
Build Me Up Break Me Down
Lost Not Forgotten
This is The Life
Bridges in the Sky
Outcry
Far From Heaven
Breaking All Illusions
Beneath The Surface
The Enemy Inside
The Looking Glass
Enigma Machine
Behind the Veil
Along For the Ride
Illumination Theory
The Astonishing (full)


Neat.. You're only missing from that list To Live Forever and Innocence.. They should also join your "non-IAW DT songs played with MM they've never before opened with" list, but only TLF would join the green list ("crowd pleasers") I guess?..
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: bosk1 on November 28, 2016, 05:32:10 PM
- It's an instrumental... but why waste at the beginning some breathing time for James?

You mean just like in the current tour?.. ;D

That's different, for obvious reasons.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: ToT-147 on November 28, 2016, 06:14:19 PM
- It's an instrumental... but why waste at the beginning some breathing time for James?

You mean just like in the current tour?.. ;D

That's different, for obvious reasons.

Yeah, different from instrumentals like SoC, HK or Erotomania (which are very unlikely to be played as openers) but not different from other cases, like Overture 1928, Overture (if we consider this as one separate "song") or FAS (the one "song" you're all forgetting of the ones they've never played live)..
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: TheAtliator on November 28, 2016, 09:53:37 PM
Neat.. You're only missing from that list To Live Forever and Innocence.. They should also join your "non-IAW DT songs played with MM they've never before opened with" list, but only TLF would join the green list ("crowd pleasers") I guess?..

Oh yeah! I knew I was forgetting something... fixed.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: Lark the Starless on November 28, 2016, 10:46:30 PM
Based on what I've been perusing around the forums, I came up with a setlist that had an opener Bosk wouldn't expect, songs never played before, emphasis on FII, "monster" songs, etc. This clocks in right around 3 hours. What do you guys think?

1st Set

1. The Spirit Carries On
2. The Bigger Picture
3. Erotomania
4. Voices
5. The Silent Man
6. A New Beginning
7. Our New World
8. Hell’s Kitchen
9. Lines in the Sand
10. Peruvian Skies
11. Anna Lee
12. Trial of Tears

2nd Set - Images and Words

13. Pull Me Under
14. Another Day
15. Take the Time
16. Surrounded
17. Metropolis, Pt. 1
18. Under a Glass Moon
19. Wait for Sleep
20. Learning to Live

Encore 1

21. The Glass Prison

Encore 2

22. A Change of Seasons
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: jsbru on November 29, 2016, 12:31:25 AM
Based on what I've been perusing around the forums, I came up with a setlist that had an opener Bosk wouldn't expect, songs never played before, emphasis on FII, "monster" songs, etc. This clocks in right around 3 hours. What do you guys think?

1st Set

1. The Spirit Carries On
2. The Bigger Picture
3. Erotomania
4. Voices
5. The Silent Man
6. A New Beginning
7. Our New World
8. Hell’s Kitchen
9. Lines in the Sand
10. Peruvian Skies
11. Anna Lee
12. Trial of Tears

2nd Set - Images and Words

13. Pull Me Under
14. Another Day
15. Take the Time
16. Surrounded
17. Metropolis, Pt. 1
18. Under a Glass Moon
19. Wait for Sleep
20. Learning to Live

Encore 1

21. The Glass Prison

Encore 2

22. A Change of Seasons

That's really close to what I would guess, although I don't think they'll do that much from FII.  I'd say 2 songs at most.  I'd replace some of them with some more crowd pleasers and at least one B-side.

1st Set

1. The Spirit Carries On
2. The Bigger Picture -or- Surrender to Reason
3. The Glass Prison
4. Burning My Soul/Hell's Kitchen
5. Panic Attack
6. Something from WDADU -or- an earlier B-side like To Live Forever, etc.
7. A New Beginning
8. As I Am
9. Lines in the Sand
10. Our New World
11. Disappear


2nd Set - Images and Words

12. Pull Me Under
13. Another Day
14. Take the Time
15. Surrounded
16. Metropolis, Pt. 1
17. Under a Glass Moon
18. Wait for Sleep
19. Learning to Live

Encore 1

20. Raw Dog

Encore 2

21. A Change of Seasons

Other songs I wouldn't be surprised to see:
- The Enemy Inside
- Looking Glass
- Home
- On the Backs of Angels
- Forsaken
- Vacant/Stream of Consciousness
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: Prog Snob on November 29, 2016, 12:50:33 AM
Raw Dog....really?  :lol
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: krands85 on November 29, 2016, 05:17:31 AM
I'd say 3 hours is quite optimistic!

I had a dream last night that I saw the setlist and the opener was...Along for the Ride - if it turns out to be that I'll be a bit freaked out  :lol There was also no ACOS or 8VM - I really hope that one doesn't come true!
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: SeRoX on November 30, 2016, 04:32:55 AM
I feel like it's Stream of Consciousness + Vacant as an opener.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: w_marano on November 30, 2016, 06:54:22 AM
My bet goes to The Count of Tuscany as the opener!
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: ToT-147 on November 30, 2016, 09:07:37 AM
I feel like it's Stream of Consciousness + Vacant as an opener.

Or Vacant + SoC.. :lol


But either way, THAT would be outstanding..
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: TheAtliator on November 30, 2016, 09:09:12 AM
The Count of Tuscany
On The Backs of Angels
The Gift of Music
Lord Nafaryus
Savior in the Square
When Your Time Has Come
Three Days
In The Presence of Enemies

Lines In the Sand
Anna Lee
Trial of Tears
Images And Words

Octavarium
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: gzarruk on November 30, 2016, 10:24:53 AM
Now I think they'll open with TDEN. It's a song fron SC (10th anniv.), they've played it before with MM on the ADTOE tour, would work great as an opener, and it's one of Mangini's favorite Portnoy songs to play (he's said it a couple times). To me, that's as clear as it gets  ;D
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: TheAtliator on November 30, 2016, 10:32:06 AM
My guess for opener is Endless Sacrifice. Just imagine a DT concert opening with this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tZPRdN5XCpI
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: Ben_Jamin on November 30, 2016, 11:40:48 AM
My bet goes to The Count of Tuscany as the opener!

That would be epic and a nice opener. Comes in soft, then it  hits. Then JLB enters saying hello "city"
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: Sir GuitarCozmo on November 30, 2016, 11:45:10 AM
(http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd232/skydivingninja/DTComix.png)
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: Prog Snob on November 30, 2016, 01:05:10 PM
 :rollin

Tell me you did that yourself.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: Sir GuitarCozmo on November 30, 2016, 01:12:54 PM
I wish.  Skydivingninja put that one together.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: Adami on November 30, 2016, 03:47:11 PM
My guess for opener is Endless Sacrifice. Just imagine a DT concert opening with this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tZPRdN5XCpI

Oh god that was immensely boring. Maybe it's because I don't like the song in general, but that seems to be a prime example of the click track working against them. The whole time I just kept thinking "SPEED UP FOR THE LOVE OF MOORE"
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: bosk1 on November 30, 2016, 03:58:26 PM
One more hint about the opening song:  I am listening to it right now.  :biggrin:
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: thosava on November 30, 2016, 04:00:41 PM
One more hint about the opening song:  I am listening to it right now.  :biggrin:
Tell us exactly when the song is over, so we can calculate the duration of the song. ;D
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: bosk1 on November 30, 2016, 04:02:30 PM
Duration is less than 25 minutes.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: TheAtliator on November 30, 2016, 04:02:59 PM
One more hint about the opening song:  I am listening to it right now.  :biggrin:

Because you clicked on the link  :biggrin:
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: thosava on November 30, 2016, 04:04:11 PM
Duration is less than 25 minutes.
Oh then i think i know which one. It's the one that's longer than 1 minute right?
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: TheAtliator on November 30, 2016, 04:04:49 PM
I'm going to make one modification that would be awesome:

Illumination Theory
On The Backs of Angels
The Gift of Music
Lord Nafaryus
Savior in the Square
When Your Time Has Come
Three Days
In The Presence of Enemies

Lines In the Sand
Anna Lee
Trial of Tears
Images And Words

Octavarium

 :metal :metal :metal :metal
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: Kotowboy on November 30, 2016, 04:17:21 PM
One more hint about the opening song:  I am listening to it right now.  :biggrin:

Ytse Jam.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: bosk1 on November 30, 2016, 04:23:35 PM
I am listening to Epica now.  And...that is actually sort of a hint too.  But probably not in the way you all think.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: TheAtliator on November 30, 2016, 04:29:38 PM
En
(Eo)
Ep

......
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: TheAtliator on November 30, 2016, 04:31:56 PM
No it's Never Enough.

Sure of it now. "Recent years" does not mean only Mangini
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: Adami on November 30, 2016, 04:37:05 PM
No it's Never Enough.

Sure of it now. "Recent years" does not mean only Mangini

I lost track, but didn't he say a fan favorite? Of all DT songs, I think Never Enough least qualifies.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: TheAtliator on November 30, 2016, 04:38:22 PM
No it's Never Enough.

Sure of it now. "Recent years" does not mean only Mangini

I lost track, but didn't he say a fan favorite? Of all DT songs, I think Never Enough least qualifies.

Crowd pleaser I think. And I think that can qualify.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: Adami on November 30, 2016, 04:42:56 PM
No it's Never Enough.

Sure of it now. "Recent years" does not mean only Mangini

I lost track, but didn't he say a fan favorite? Of all DT songs, I think Never Enough least qualifies.

Crowd pleaser I think. And I think that can qualify.

If Never Enough qualifies as a crowd pleaser, then so does literally every single DT song including Raw Dog.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: Lark the Starless on November 30, 2016, 04:46:27 PM
Personally, I don't think Never Enough would be enough of a "crowd pleaser," let alone an opener.

My gut says it'll be "The Spirit Carries On."
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: thosava on November 30, 2016, 04:56:29 PM
I was wondering when we should even hope to know the setlist? Will Bosk be able to tell us before the tour, or do we have to wait until the first concert of the 2017 tour to find out?
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: TheAtliator on November 30, 2016, 05:04:15 PM
Well, either Endless Sacrifice or Never Enough is my guess. Maybe NE is the more obvious hint that is misleading.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: JRuless on November 30, 2016, 05:11:59 PM
I am listening to Epica now.  And...that is actually sort of a hint too.  But probably not in the way you all think.

I see: a Red hair singer and as it is part of TA tour I think they start with A New Beginning
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: Cool Chris on November 30, 2016, 05:28:29 PM
Never Enough? Good lord why? It's not a bad song, but I'd rather hear them play Epica's Never Enough.

Endless Sacrifice always slays live, but would not be a good opener.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: TheAtliator on November 30, 2016, 05:33:41 PM
DT is now reading this forum and rethinking their choice  :lol
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: bosk1 on November 30, 2016, 05:34:56 PM
IT'S NOT NEVER ENOUGH!  :lolpalm:
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: Adami on November 30, 2016, 05:36:53 PM
A Nightmare to Remember.

There you go. Calling it. Phoning it in. Or something.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: Ben_Jamin on November 30, 2016, 05:38:43 PM
Forsaken
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: TheAtliator on November 30, 2016, 05:57:49 PM
IT'S NOT NEVER ENOUGH!  :lolpalm:

 :rollin Ok  :-\
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: TAC on November 30, 2016, 06:06:10 PM
I am listening to Epica now.  And...that is actually sort of a hint too.  But probably not in the way you all think.


It's an epic! Gotcha! 8V or ACOS.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: CDrice on November 30, 2016, 06:12:20 PM
IT'S NOT NEVER ENOUGH!  :lolpalm:


But it has to be! In fact the whole show has to only be that song played over and over because, as you all know, everything is Never Enough .
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: RaiseTheKnife on November 30, 2016, 07:57:29 PM
Yes, but an important question to ask is, WHO would you kill for it?


Just catching up on this thread.  Sounds like ILLUMINATION THEORY will be the opener.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: Prog Snob on November 30, 2016, 08:21:27 PM
Yes, but an important question to ask is, WHO would you kill for it?


Just catching up on this thread.  Sounds like ILLUMINATION THEORY will be the opener.

That is on my list of possibilities.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: Adami on November 30, 2016, 08:25:53 PM
Yea, that sounds pretty good.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: Mosh on November 30, 2016, 08:36:29 PM
False Awakening Suite followed by Illumination Theory. I remember reading on here that the album was originally going to be sequenced this way, so it would be cool to hear it in that sequence.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: TheAtliator on December 01, 2016, 12:51:00 AM
On my list of possibilities as well. It would be totally epic
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: SwedishGoose on December 01, 2016, 03:02:05 AM
Yes, but an important question to ask is, WHO would you kill for it?


Just catching up on this thread.  Sounds like ILLUMINATION THEORY will be the opener.

That is on my list of possibilities.

But Illumination Theory would be defined as a "monster" song and Mangini would not have to transcribe that. Would DT play IT, ACoS and 8VM on the tour...

Or did Mangini litterally mean monster songs, as in songs about monsters?
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: Prog Snob on December 01, 2016, 04:21:45 AM
Yes, but an important question to ask is, WHO would you kill for it?


Just catching up on this thread.  Sounds like ILLUMINATION THEORY will be the opener.

That is on my list of possibilities.

But Illumination Theory would be defined as a "monster" song and Mangini would not have to transcribe that. Would DT play IT, ACoS and 8VM on the tour...

Or did Mangini litterally mean monster songs, as in songs about monsters?

He has played it many times before. I don't see it as being a major deal to relearn it. It's one of a few possibilities. I'll put the rest up later.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: SwedishGoose on December 01, 2016, 05:21:03 AM
Quote from: Prog Snob
He has played it many times before. I don't see it as being a major deal to relearn it. It's one of a few possibilities. I'll put the rest up later.

Indeed... and as he said he was transcribing two "monstersongs" for the tour this would be a third one. I don't think they would play three "monstersongs".
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: Prog Snob on December 01, 2016, 05:24:17 AM
Do we know that 8V is one of them?
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: Prog Snob on December 01, 2016, 05:24:50 AM
Ohhh, they're opening with 8V. Hmmm That fits with bosk not expecting it to be an opening song.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: SwedishGoose on December 01, 2016, 05:41:03 AM
Do we know that 8V is one of them?

We don't know other than MM had to transcribe two "monstersongs"

It's my guess and hope that those two are ACOS and 8VM
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: SwedishGoose on December 01, 2016, 05:41:50 AM
Ohhh, they're opening with 8V. Hmmm That fits with bosk not expecting it to be an opening song.

Would be amazing...
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: Lynxo on December 01, 2016, 06:41:48 AM
Or did Mangini litterally mean monster songs, as in songs about monsters?
The Dark Eternal Night confirmed.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: gzarruk on December 01, 2016, 06:59:03 AM
They aren't opening with 8V, Bosk said they've been playing the opening song on the last couple years.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: hefdaddy42 on December 01, 2016, 07:14:52 AM
IT'S NOT NEVER ENOUGH!  :lolpalm:
IT'S NEVER NEVER ENOUGH
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: Mosh on December 01, 2016, 08:55:21 AM
I'm also going to guess that there will be a chunk of set devoted to FII.

Or Trial of Tears as the opener? That would be a pretty epic way to start the show IMO.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: Sir GuitarCozmo on December 01, 2016, 09:02:15 AM
IT'S NOT NEVER ENOUGH!  :lolpalm:
IT'S NEVER NEVER ENOUGH

Such a great song.  :metal

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uzZlZ1ylX48
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: thosava on December 01, 2016, 09:28:46 AM
If they actually chose Never Enough, I would wonder if it was intentionally symbolic for the mixed reactions to The Astonishing.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: ToT-147 on December 01, 2016, 09:33:50 AM
Something very logical and that no one has mentioned yet is the great possibility of them playing at least one song of SDoIT, giving the ocassion of its 15th anniversary.. When it was SFaM's 15th anniversary they actually played 4 songs from it in the encore.. My guess is they'll play more than one song, and the same goes to FII, that resembles the case of Awake (20th annyversary) of which they actually played half of the album..

Anyway, I think they don't have much more room than playing two or three songs at most from each of those albums, because the main celebration is I&W.. But even so, I think they will -or should- be playing songs from SDoIT, and one of those could definitely be TGP... since this one totally matches the "monster song" description..
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: gzarruk on December 01, 2016, 11:39:31 AM
Something very logical and that no one has mentioned yet is the great possibility of them playing at least one song of SDoIT, giving the ocassion of its 15th anniversary.. When it was SFaM's 15th anniversary they actually played 4 songs from it in the encore.. My guess is they'll play more than one song, and the same goes to FII, that resembles the case of Awake (20th annyversary) of which they actually played half of the album..

Anyway, I think they don't have much more room than playing two or three songs at most from each of those albums, because the main celebration is I&W.. But even so, I think they will -or should- be playing songs from SDoIT, and one of those could definitely be TGP... since this one totally matches the "monster song" description..

I agree! Although they have 3 album anniversaries to cover (IAW, SDOIT, SC) + a few TA songs + monster songs + TBP/STR + B-sides... they just can't fit everything into it  :-\
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: ToT-147 on December 01, 2016, 12:15:17 PM
Something very logical and that no one has mentioned yet is the great possibility of them playing at least one song of SDoIT, giving the ocassion of its 15th anniversary.. When it was SFaM's 15th anniversary they actually played 4 songs from it in the encore.. My guess is they'll play more than one song, and the same goes to FII, that resembles the case of Awake (20th annyversary) of which they actually played half of the album..

Anyway, I think they don't have much more room than playing two or three songs at most from each of those albums, because the main celebration is I&W.. But even so, I think they will -or should- be playing songs from SDoIT, and one of those could definitely be TGP... since this one totally matches the "monster song" description..

I agree! Although they have 3 album anniversaries to cover (IAW, SDOIT, SC) + a few TA songs + monster songs + TBP/STR + B-sides... they just can't fit everything into it  :-\

But I was guessing that one of those "monster songs" (or probably the two of them) could be from any of those albums.. TGP and LitS, e.g., are both epic and hard songs to play for any mortal.. Besides, I'm not counting SC, because I don't know if they've ever celebrated a 10th anniversary of an album before.. I wouldn't do that, especially if you're already celebrating three anniversaries more..

Having said all that, they've done several 3 hour shows and "an evening with" so I don't think time would be a problem for them.. :lol
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: jsbru on December 01, 2016, 02:41:02 PM
I am listening to Epica now.  And...that is actually sort of a hint too.  But probably not in the way you all think.

Never heard of them, but my own cover band has a female vocalist, so I'll be listening to this on the ride home for potential material!
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: gzarruk on December 01, 2016, 02:46:05 PM
Something very logical and that no one has mentioned yet is the great possibility of them playing at least one song of SDoIT, giving the ocassion of its 15th anniversary.. When it was SFaM's 15th anniversary they actually played 4 songs from it in the encore.. My guess is they'll play more than one song, and the same goes to FII, that resembles the case of Awake (20th annyversary) of which they actually played half of the album..

Anyway, I think they don't have much more room than playing two or three songs at most from each of those albums, because the main celebration is I&W.. But even so, I think they will -or should- be playing songs from SDoIT, and one of those could definitely be TGP... since this one totally matches the "monster song" description.

I agree! Although they have 3 album anniversaries to cover (IAW, SDOIT, SC) + a few TA songs + monster songs + TBP/STR + B-sides... they just can't fit everything into it  :-\

But I was guessing that one of those "monster songs" (or probably the two of them) could be from any of those albums.. TGP and LitS, e.g., are both epic and hard songs to play for any mortal.. Besides, I'm not counting SC, because I don't know if they've ever celebrated a 10th anniversary of an album before.. I wouldn't do that, especially if you're already celebrating three anniversaries more..

Having said all that, they've done several 3 hour shows and "an evening with" so I don't think time would be a problem for them.. :lol

DT has so much good material that, even with a 3 hour set, they can't fit all the songs they would like to  :lol
As an example, I remember Petrucci saying they wanted to include Only a Matter of Time on the AFTR tour, but couldn't because they were already playing too much stuff  :'(
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: jsbru on December 01, 2016, 02:47:50 PM
Yes, but an important question to ask is, WHO would you kill for it?


Just catching up on this thread.  Sounds like ILLUMINATION THEORY will be the opener.

I don't think that's a terrible guess, but it's not necessarily a "crowd pleaser," and MM said he was transcribing two "monster" tracks.  We're not sure if "monster" means "longer," but if it does, he would not have to transcribe that one.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: cramx3 on December 01, 2016, 02:53:35 PM
Yes, but an important question to ask is, WHO would you kill for it?


Just catching up on this thread.  Sounds like ILLUMINATION THEORY will be the opener.

I don't think that's a terrible guess, but it's not necessarily a "crowd pleaser," and MM said he was transcribing two "monster" tracks.  We're not sure if "monster" means "longer," but if it does, he would not have to transcribe that one.

I would guess he doesn't need to transcribe ANTR as well since that was a track to perform on his audition.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: bosk1 on December 01, 2016, 02:54:28 PM
The opener is definitely a monster track.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: cramx3 on December 01, 2016, 02:57:12 PM
The opener is definitely a monster track.

The Glass Prison pleaseee
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: thosava on December 01, 2016, 02:58:14 PM
The opener is definitely a monster track.

A Change of Seasons please!
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: Samsara on December 01, 2016, 02:58:31 PM
DT is covering Extreme's (It's A) Monster?!?!?!?!?!   :metal :metal :metal :metal






 :lol
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: CharlesPL on December 01, 2016, 02:58:43 PM
TMoLS ?
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: jsbru on December 01, 2016, 03:01:50 PM
I guess there's two ways to take that new information.

1) Either there's three "monster" tracks total during the show (one as the opener that DT has been playing "recently" that MM doesn't need to transcribe, and two later in the show that he does), or

2) "Recently" includes stuff from before MM joined the band.

It's not TCOT because bosk said nothing from BC&SL that he remembers, and he'd obviously remember that one.  But it could be another "monster" track from that time period that MM has yet to play, but that has some "crowd pleaser" cred.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: jsbru on December 01, 2016, 03:07:17 PM
I guess there's a third possibility...MM for some reason needs to "transcribe" a song that he already has played but has not necessarily "transcribed."  But I find that unlikely if it's a song he's played live, so...
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: gzarruk on December 01, 2016, 03:09:46 PM
I would say it's one of the epics they've played live with him, like IT, BAI or even Outcry
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: thosava on December 01, 2016, 03:11:09 PM
Bosk can you say something about if the opener has been mentioned by anyone in this thread recently?
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: MirrorMask on December 01, 2016, 03:20:33 PM
Bosk can you say something about if the opener has been mentioned by anyone in this thread recently?

Someone posted a list of ALL the songs Mangini played with the band. So by default yes, it has been posted  ;D

I would say it's one of the epics they've played live with him, like IT, BAI or even Outcry

Nothing is set in stone but I think we can be quite sure that finally the time for The Bigger Picture and Surrender to Reason has come. That with at least a big epic and stuff from The Astonishing and all the rest makes me doubt that they're gonna go overkill on DT12 and play Illumination Theory as well.

My bet is on Breaking all Illusions. But I don't wanna know, I want at most suspect it and go "Yeah, I was right!" at my concert but I don't wanna fully know.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: jsbru on December 01, 2016, 03:21:20 PM
I would say it's one of the epics they've played live with him, like IT, BAI or even Outcry

Could be.  I could see a set with BAI, TOT/LOTS, and ACOS for an encore.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: bosk1 on December 01, 2016, 03:26:15 PM
I can pretty much guarantee someone is going to figure it out based on my last clue, so I'm not saying anything else.  There is more than enough to piece together exactly which song it is, so I'm not going to give any more away.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: goo-goo on December 01, 2016, 03:41:32 PM
The opener is definitely a monster track.

The Dark Eternal Knight RRRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOOAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRR!

*(since it's a monster track  :rollin)
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: thosava on December 01, 2016, 03:51:49 PM
I'm gonna guess Enigma Machine for now. Certainly works as an energetic and never before played opener. And i saw that epica had an album called something with enigma. But i do think it might be something more epic (longer).
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: bosk1 on December 01, 2016, 03:52:31 PM
The opener is definitely a monster track.

The Dark Eternal Knight RRRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOOAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRR!

*(since it's a monster track  :rollin)

Okay, well now you're just being silly.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: gzarruk on December 01, 2016, 03:54:37 PM
The opener is definitely a monster track.

The Dark Eternal Knight RRRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOOAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRR!

*(since it's a monster track  :rollin)

 :lol I actually thought of TDEN befor Bosk posted that. It fits all the conditions, Mangini loves it, and, he just mentioned it on a FB a couple days ago (as an example, I know, but the fact that he remembered it first is not a coincidence, imo)
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: Mosh on December 01, 2016, 04:26:26 PM
My money is on TDEN. JP loves that song too.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: ToT-147 on December 01, 2016, 05:29:14 PM
they have 3 album anniversaries to cover (IAW, SDOIT, SC) + a few TA songs + monster songs + TBP/STR + B-sides... they just can't fit everything into it  :-\

But I was guessing that one of those "monster songs" (or probably the two of them) could be from any of those albums.. TGP and LitS, e.g., are both epic and hard songs to play for any mortal.. Besides, I'm not counting SC, because I don't know if they've ever celebrated a 10th anniversary of an album before.. I wouldn't do that, especially if you're already celebrating three anniversaries more..

Having said all that, they've done several 3 hour shows and "an evening with" so I don't think time would be a problem for them.. :lol

DT has so much good material that, even with a 3 hour set, they can't fit all the songs they would like to  :lol
As an example, I remember Petrucci saying they wanted to include Only a Matter of Time on the AFTR tour, but couldn't because they were already playing too much stuff  :'(

lol.. I know that.. I was talking about the hypotetical show you brought.. They can easily play all that.. It's actually way less than three hours, and I repeat that I don't see why SC should be in the list..
I also remember JP or some other DT member saying they couldn't play much long songs because that would imply less quantity of pieces to play.. But then again, I don't see the problem in this particular tour, even when I&W, the TA songs, the monster songs and the two other anniversaries..

Nothing is set in stone but I think we can be quite sure that finally the time for The Bigger Picture and Surrender to Reason has come. That with at least a big epic and stuff from The Astonishing and all the rest makes me doubt that they're gonna go overkill on DT12 and play Illumination Theory as well.

My bet is on Breaking all Illusions. But I don't wanna know, I want at most suspect it and go "Yeah, I was right!" at my concert but I don't wanna fully know.

How would be more overkill playing IT than playing BAI??.. :huh:
They've played BAI a lot more than IT, and throughout different tours, while IT was only played on the AFTR tour..

I hope that if they're gonna play something from ADToE it's everything but OtBoA, BitS and BAI..
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: gzarruk on December 01, 2016, 06:46:52 PM
How would be more overkill playing IT than playing BAI??.. :huh:
They've played BAI a lot more than IT, and throughout different tours, while IT was only played on the AFTR tour..

I hope that if they're gonna play something from ADToE it's everything but OtBoA, BitS and BAI..

I would love it if it was LNF or Outcry or even TITL. So much good songs on ADTOE to pick from  ;D
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: TAC on December 01, 2016, 06:51:28 PM
The opener is definitely a monster track.

Thinking IPTOE.... Now that would be totally unexpected.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: HolidaysAnoraks on December 01, 2016, 11:22:14 PM
Thinking that Bosk's clue about the opener being a "monster" track may be a reference to the Peruvian Skies lyric. If by chance Peruvian Skies is the opener, perhaps DT is starting the show with a FII suite like the Awake and SFAM suites from the AFTR tour.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: IDontNotDoThings on December 01, 2016, 11:23:13 PM
My bets on TDOE.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: the keyboard wizard on December 01, 2016, 11:44:52 PM
I would bet too on Peruvian Skies as in the lyrics there is "I'm the monster you created". Plus, it has already been played by Mangini and it has never been an opener (if I do remember well). And I think it's a crowd pleaser (I love the Metallica-like riffs and the Pink Floyd mood)

Edit : bosk1 said he was listening to Epica and the first singer of Epica had a band called... Trail of Tears (not trial I know but it could be a clue?)
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: V_R11 on December 02, 2016, 12:15:44 AM
Don't know if this has been mentioned, but will the setlist be 100% same throughout the whole tour?
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: jsbru on December 02, 2016, 12:42:49 AM
TDEN makes sense with respect to the "monster" song because of the lyrics, as well as most of the other criteria, but I don't see how it fits in with the Epica hint.

We know it's not Never Enough (no way they open the show with a song about how their fans suck  ;) ).  But Epica also has a song called Caught in a Web.  DT did play that on the ADTOE tour.  Not sure how that's "monster" though.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: MirrorMask on December 02, 2016, 01:05:51 AM
Personally I'd prefer Never Enough over The Dark Eternal Night, both as an opener and in general. While it slightly gets better live, I never ever liked the song and I think it's worse than You Not me when it comes to "try something different".

Lucky ones those who like the song, they have 9 minutes more of DT discography to enjoy  ;D
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: TheAtliator on December 02, 2016, 01:36:13 AM
Played in last 5 years, Never opened with, non-obvious "opener" choice, crowd pleaser, not on BC&SL, under 25 min (lol), definite "monster track", plus Epica hint....

Makes me want to narrow down the list to:


-Peruvian Skies (because of monster lyric? but does that make it a monster track?)
-Trial of Tears (I don't see this being a good opener)
-The Dance of Eternity
-Endless Sacrifice
-The Dark Eternal Night
-Lost Not Forgotten
-Outcry
-Breaking All Illusions
-Illumination Theory


Also, the "I am listening to it right now" hint was posted as post #397 in the thread... Any coincidence track 3 on 1997's FII says "monster" in the lyric, and falls under every category that was hinted??
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: HolidaysAnoraks on December 02, 2016, 01:58:12 AM
See, the reason I would guess Peruvian Skies over The Dark Eternal Night is because TDOE isn't exactly hard for me to picture as an opener. It's a high energy metal track that begins with an in-your-face guitar riff.
Sure, TDOE may not be a predictable opening song, but Bosk has hinted that he wouldn't have imagined the opener for this upcoming tour.  IMO, Peruvian Skies better fits this description. Just my guess, though.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: thosava on December 02, 2016, 02:02:23 AM
It could be Peruvian Skies, but i'm not betting on it. It was only played 15 times in 2011, and once in 2010 (and before that it was in 2006). I don't know if that qualifies as a crowd pleaser in recent years. I don't think it would work well as an opener either as it's very calm in the first few minutes. And i don't know why Petrucci would ask Bosk specifically about what he though about Peruvian Skies as an opener. But it would fit the criteria of "Monster Track" if it just means that the word monster is mentioned in the lyrics.

I think the clue monster track is the most important, as he said that someone would be guaranteed to figure it out based on that last clue.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: HolidaysAnoraks on December 02, 2016, 02:29:47 AM
Whoops, for some reason I thought Peruvian Skies had been played more than that. Agreed on the monster clue.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: TheAtliator on December 02, 2016, 02:49:41 AM
That's why I'd go for IT, BAI, or my absolute favorite option, Outcry.

If it's IT I can totally imagine that first chord with the drum roll and lighting and the way everyone cheers as soon as it starts, and Live Die Kill being the big vocal enterance... but I can't imagine James nailing Persuite of Truth at all in the early side of the set. Maybe...

BAI would be amazing of course, but Outcry would just make for the most glorious and insane, unexpected opener, and the song has every element of classic DT.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: thosava on December 02, 2016, 02:54:59 AM
I was thinking about Outcry as well. It fits the monster track clue, if monster track means a longer song. It also fits monster track in lyrical content as it's about a revolution against a dictator or tyrant (often described as monsters). It's also certainly epic sounding, if the clue about epica was just that the song was epic. It's unexpected, but i could see it working very well as an opener!
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: HolidaysAnoraks on December 02, 2016, 03:20:14 AM
Bosk said he thought someone would figure out the opener based on the monster clue. While Outcry would be a cool opener, I don't that the monster connection there would be that strong of a giveaway, if that makes sense.
 I also got the impression that the Epica connection doesn't necessarily mean that the track is an "epic", because Bosk hinted that the connection wasn't quite that obvious. Just my $0.02, though.
Personally, I'd dig Outcry as an opener.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: Ben_Jamin on December 02, 2016, 03:23:54 AM
I Am The Killing HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAND!
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: krands85 on December 02, 2016, 04:57:13 AM
With all this frenzied discussion about what the opener might be, it would be amazing if he was just trolling us all with fake hints  :lol
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: ToT-147 on December 02, 2016, 09:14:49 AM
The opener is definitely a monster track.

Thinking IPTOE.... Now that would be totally unexpected.

But they have opened with that one before... Still:

With all this frenzied discussion about what the opener might be, it would be amazing if he was just trolling us all with fake hints  :lol

Ikr.. :lol
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: JediKnight1969 on December 02, 2016, 09:23:11 AM
Breaking all illusions.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: hefdaddy42 on December 02, 2016, 10:27:36 AM
DT is totally opening the show with Free Bird.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: gmillerdrake on December 02, 2016, 10:31:31 AM
ITPOE would be a cool opening song. Killer intro, and it's an all around cool song and it's an 'epic'.....
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: Dream Team on December 02, 2016, 11:52:16 AM
TDEN would be so underwhelming. Please play something great, this is a celebration of I&W after all.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: kingshmegland on December 02, 2016, 11:57:07 AM
DT is totally opening the show with Free Bird.

Whipping Post the 73'd, 26 minute version.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: jsbru on December 02, 2016, 12:06:48 PM
TITL also talks about "cast[ing] off the monsters inside."

Don't see how that relates to Epica, either, but I thought I'd just throw that out there.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: ToT-147 on December 02, 2016, 12:20:17 PM
ITPOE would be a cool opening song. Killer intro, and it's an all around cool song and it's an 'epic'.....

It would be cool indeed.. But it's not.. Check this:

Bosk, have they EVER opened with this song before?

Opened?  No.  And I think the reason it didn't register is that it has been played in recent years, and I knew it is a crowd pleaser.  So despite it being in the #1 slot, I just skimmed right past it without thinking.

And... just in case: http://www.setlist.fm/setlist/dream-theater/2009/stadio-brianteo-monza-italy-23d67023.html
Plus, they haven't played any part of ItPoE in recent years.. So it's not that one..

If he's not playing with us :lol, the opener is among these songs:

Played in last 5 years, Never opened with, non-obvious "opener" choice, crowd pleaser, not on BC&SL, under 25 min (lol), definite "monster track", plus Epica hint....

Makes me want to narrow down the list to:


-Peruvian Skies (because of monster lyric? but does that make it a monster track?)
-Trial of Tears (I don't see this being a good opener)
-The Dance of Eternity
-Endless Sacrifice
-The Dark Eternal Night
-Lost Not Forgotten
-Outcry
-Breaking All Illusions
-Illumination Theory

Although I would remove from that list TDoE (because there just no way they're openning with that one) and Peruvian Skies because is not a "monster song" at all.. MM wouldn't have written his tweet making a reference about the lyric of a song, it doesn't make any sense.. Then, I don't feel that ES, LNF and Outcry are too much of "crowd pleasers"...

So I'd say it's between Trial of Tears, TDEN, BAI or IT..

Just one question though: why not Scarred, Finally Free or The Great Debate?.. The three of them match the description too.. :justjen
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: bosk1 on December 02, 2016, 12:48:01 PM
TITL also talks about "cast[ing] off the monsters inside."

Don't see how that relates to Epica, either, but I thought I'd just throw that out there.
The opening song doesn't relate to Epica.  But the fact that I was listening to Epica when I was is a clue.

Just one question though: why not Scarred, Finally Free or The Great Debate?.. The three of them match the description too.. :justjen
Interesting.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: Tony From Long Island on December 02, 2016, 01:14:19 PM
I Am The Killing HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAND!

I think I can say with almost 100% certainty that they won't open with The Killing Hand   :-)



"For those who understand . . . I extend my hand . . . . to the doubtful I demand . . . take me as I am . .  ."     I'd love that as an opener
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: jsbru on December 02, 2016, 02:25:18 PM
Just one question though: why not Scarred, Finally Free or The Great Debate?.. The three of them match the description too.. :justjen

If these three are "interesting," the only one that strikes me as unusual as an opener is Finally Free.  I'd say that is a fan favorite.  It's lyrics talk about Friday afternoon, though, and bosk was listening to it on a Thursday afternoon (although if he works at a defense firm, I'm sure Thursday, Friday, Saturday all might seem like the same day to him  ;) )..

I don't know of TGD as a crowd pleaser or something that strikes me as odd to open with.

I love Scarred, but I don't that it's a fan favorite generally.

I guess Bosk is in Pacific time, so his posts were at 2:58 and 3:23 on a Thursday afternoon--the first listening to the mystery track, and the second listening to Epica.

That's a 25 minute gap, and the song is less than 25 minutes.  But we don't know for sure that his second post is when he started listening to Epica.

Nothing I can think of relates to "Thursday" in a DT song, so it might have something to do with the time.

Where is clocks guy when you need him...  :lol
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: jsbru on December 02, 2016, 02:26:30 PM
.

oops
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: bosk1 on December 02, 2016, 02:28:58 PM
Try to remember to PM me the day before the first show, and I will connect the dots for you and tell you exactly where you have been right and where you have been off in your analysis. 
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: Tony From Long Island on December 02, 2016, 02:30:44 PM
" . . . . . I love Scarred, but I don't that it's a fan favorite generally. . . . . . "


Interesting you should say that.   A former band I was in  played Scarred . . . along with Glass Moon, Pull Me Unda, and bits from Change of Seasons . . .      Of course I had been booted by that point because I am not nearly competent enough of a guitarist to play DT!

Scarred was one of our favorite DT songs.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: jsbru on December 02, 2016, 02:40:22 PM
" . . . . . I love Scarred, but I don't that it's a fan favorite generally. . . . . . "


Interesting you should say that.   A former band I was in  played Scarred . . . along with Glass Moon, Pull Me Unda, and bits from Change of Seasons . . .      Of course I had been booted by that point because I am not nearly competent enough of a guitarist to play DT!

Scarred was one of our favorite DT songs.

It's in my Top 4.  BAI, TTT, Scarred, and ToT.

They're all kind of similar in style and length.  Could be described as mini-epics.  It's hard for me to decide between those four which is my all-time favorite, as each of them probably have been at some point.  I think currently it's ToT by a hair, although I am learning BAI on guitar right now.

Three of those four were played on the BTFW DVD, so that was a treat.  And TTT will definitely be on this upcoming tour.

With that said, I always thought these were more popular with a select group of hardcore fans than with the general fan base.  But other than that, they all fit within the criteria listed.

I don't know how the timing of bosks posts implicate any one of them, either.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: bosk1 on December 02, 2016, 02:44:10 PM
I am listening to Epica again right now.  But not for any reason that relates to DT.  I just wanted to listen to them.  So I just thought I would share that here so people would speculate as to whether it might mean something.  It doesn't.  :corn
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: jsbru on December 02, 2016, 02:46:39 PM
I'll be listening to them in a minute, too, because I'll be heading Home.  Plaintiffs attorneys don't work Friday afternoons.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: bosk1 on December 02, 2016, 02:48:55 PM
:lol  I know.  Or after 4:00 p.m.  That's why I eventually took a government job.  I liked plaintiffs' attorneys' hours, but placed a bit more value on my immortal soul than to be one.

EDIT:  By the way, if I understood some of your earlier posts correctly, you were not previously familiar with Epica.  For the vast majority of bands, I would probably not recommend a live release as an introduction.  But Epica is the exception.  I recommend checking out Retrospect.  It is an excellent introduction to a huge chunk of their discography, and it was a great live performance.  The video is cool as well, but the lighting at that show was odd and was not conducive to being captured on a live video release and can be distracting.  If you watch it, you will see what I mean.  But outstanding release.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: Samsara on December 02, 2016, 03:08:05 PM
They should open with Vacant...just to piss everyone off.  :lol
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: jsbru on December 02, 2016, 03:24:36 PM
Whoops...Wednesday afternoon.

Can't see how that's significant quite yet.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: thosava on December 02, 2016, 03:52:41 PM
He was listening to the song in the afternoon. Probably while watching a crimson sunset, in the chill of November the 30th.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: bosk1 on December 02, 2016, 03:54:39 PM
I'll always remember...
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: TheAtliator on December 02, 2016, 03:55:43 PM
Just one question though: why not Scarred, Finally Free or The Great Debate?.. The three of them match the description too.. :justjen
Interesting.

I was thinking of keeping those included, but I just don't see how they could open with FF, and the other two are only my favorites, probably not crowd pleasers.


The 25-minute difference between listening to the song and listening to Epica could mean that the song is almost 25 minutes long, but there could have also just been a gap between songs. It could also mean Illumination Theory if Epica comes after Dream Theater alphabetically in Bosk's iTunes you don't have the Astonishing in your library so IT is the last DT song  :justjen :huh: :rollin
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: TheAtliator on December 02, 2016, 03:58:11 PM
I don't see how "Innocence" is a "monster" song, and they have already opened with the Crimson Sunrise...
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: bosk1 on December 02, 2016, 04:01:59 PM
I am listening to The Astonishing right now.  I use Windows Media Player.  :mrlol:
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: RaiseTheKnife on December 02, 2016, 04:08:01 PM
Shattered Fortress is another candidate which I have not seen bandied around much here yet, though Illumination Theory seems more likely in my opinion.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: TheAtliator on December 02, 2016, 04:08:52 PM
Well you considered ToTs "question" and there were 20 minutes between posts so it's Illumination Theory
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: ToT-147 on December 02, 2016, 04:09:33 PM
Just one question though: why not Scarred, Finally Free or The Great Debate?.. The three of them match the description too..

If these three are "interesting," the only one that strikes me as unusual as an opener is Finally Free.  I'd say that is a fan favorite.  It's lyrics talk about Friday afternoon, though, and bosk was listening to it on a Thursday afternoon (although if he works at a defense firm, I'm sure Thursday, Friday, Saturday all might seem like the same day to him  ;) )..

I don't know of TGD as a crowd pleaser or something that strikes me as odd to open with.

I love Scarred, but I don't that it's a fan favorite generally.

Instead, I think the most unusual of the three is TGD.. Regarding Scarred, I do think is a fan favorite; at least judging by the polls I've seen here (including the DT league, in which IIRC has always ranked ninth) and in other places about the best songs..

Having said that, I agree with FF being the more plausible option of these three.. But I guess we'll see... ;D
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: thosava on December 02, 2016, 04:14:18 PM
Yeah i'm starting to believe it might be Illumination Theory too. I have already seen it live, so was hoping for another mega-epic on this tour, but Illumination Theory is a great song too!
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: ToT-147 on December 02, 2016, 04:46:53 PM
Yeah.. Me too.. :metal

EDIT:

I'd say it's between Trial of Tears, TDEN, BAI, IT... or Finally Free..
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: jsbru on December 03, 2016, 03:28:48 AM
Finally Free does sort of follow from the end of The Astonishing...
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: Octavarious on December 03, 2016, 04:38:58 PM
Since MP would be touring with the 12 step suite, I don't expect that any of these songs would be featured in a show which would tour about the same time. Am I right?
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: V_R11 on December 04, 2016, 12:20:43 PM
Wouldn't IT require them touring with an orchestra?
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: MirrorMask on December 04, 2016, 12:22:13 PM
Wouldn't IT require them touring with an orchestra?

It was never required during the whole DT12 tour so I wouldn't see why it would need one now.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: ToT-147 on December 04, 2016, 01:06:08 PM
Since MP would be touring with the 12 step suite, I don't expect that any of these songs would be featured in a show which would tour about the same time. Am I right?

Good point.. :'(

Wouldn't IT require them touring with an orchestra?

It was never required during the whole DT12 tour so I wouldn't see why it would need one now.

Hmmm.. I don't know.. Now that I'm thinking in that section, it'd be a bit strange if they don't skip it or something like that.. What would they do while the orchestral section is played on the background?.. Show the same visual the AFTR tour had?... a different one?.. Mmmm...
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: TheAtliator on December 04, 2016, 01:12:23 PM
They should do something clever with that part to actually play it live between JP and JR, not necessarily to sound exactly like the original, but to play the melody. It would be nice to hear acoustic guitar and piano or something.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: KevShmev on December 04, 2016, 01:13:20 PM
Since MP would be touring with the 12 step suite, I don't expect that any of these songs would be featured in a show which would tour about the same time. Am I right?

Nah.  If they end up not playing any of those songs, that won't be the reason why, nor should it be.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: thosava on December 04, 2016, 02:12:12 PM
They should do something clever with that part to actually play it live between JP and JR, not necessarily to sound exactly like the original, but to play the melody. It would be nice to hear acoustic guitar and piano or something.

That's a great idea! It's always cool with alternate live versions of songs.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: gzarruk on December 04, 2016, 04:11:28 PM
I just watched the live version of Outcry from LALP and...wow, what a song! Hope they play it again on the next tour. One of the best from the MM era.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: YtseJamittaja on December 05, 2016, 11:45:15 AM
OMG OMG OMG I just bought a meet&greet ticket for Helsinki show!!! :caffeine: :caffeine:

:2metal: :2metal:
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: jsbru on December 05, 2016, 01:37:05 PM
Maybe it is Octavarium.  It was played during the tour where they recorded "Score."  They haven't played it with MM (as far as I know, but I'm not an expert on what they've played on every leg of every tour), but that could qualify as "recent."  Razor's Edge was also part of Schmedly Wilcox a few years later.  It's 24 minutes, which meets bosk's critera, and would fit in between his listening to it and his listening to Epica.  This would fit in with MM having to translate it as well.

ACOS would sort of fit as well, being 23 minutes, but they've already opened with Crimson Sunrise, and really haven't played that whole song recently.  But it does have "chill of November" in it, and bosk was listening to it on the last day of November.  And they have played parts of this song as recently as last year.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: julien_fr on December 05, 2016, 02:58:39 PM
TITL also talks about "cast[ing] off the monsters inside."

Don't see how that relates to Epica, either, but I thought I'd just throw that out there.
The opening song doesn't relate to Epica.  But the fact that I was listening to Epica when I was is a clue.

Just one question though: why not Scarred, Finally Free or The Great Debate?.. The three of them match the description too.. :justjen
Interesting.


It's Finally Free IMHO.

bosk1 finds interesting that the song is being suspected as the opener. I agree with jsbru, that reduces the hypothesis to those 3 songs Scarred, Finally Free or The Great Debate.
Opening the show with Scarred or TGD would be an unexpected choice because it has never been done, but still a good thing to hear them as openers.
But Finally Free? That is really unexpected! (especially if they play the tape "You are once again surrounded by a brillant white light...")

First, it's a fan favorite.

He emphasized the fact that they did not open with that song.
Bosk, have they EVER opened with this song before?
Opened?  No.  And I think the reason it didn't register is that it has been played in recent years, and I knew it is a crowd pleaser.  So despite it being in the #1 slot, I just skimmed right past it without thinking.
So I though they may have closed with it in the recent years.
It appears that, during the 2014 tour, they played songs from SFAM for it's birthday (saw them twice in Paris that year).
And they closed with Finally Free.

bosk1 is an Epica listener, maybe he just fees good when he listen to them ?
He was listening to them friday December 2nd, so he was "feeling good this that friday afternoon"... ?
That Epica part relly needs improvement.

Finally, It's a monster song because...
well first Portnoy
second it's 12 minutes long (and bosk1 seem to have a different idea of what an epic song is ; you may think an epic is 20-minutes long, but to him, it may be 10-minutes ?)
and then during the last 4 minutes, the drums seems to be really difficult (to me as a non-drummer).
Mangini would not want to improvise that part, but play it the way it has been written by Portnoy, hence the fact he wants to transcribe it...

What do you think ?
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: Fritzinger on December 05, 2016, 05:15:26 PM
But Finally Free has already been played by Mangini. BTW, I didn't like what he did at the end of the song.. Portnoy completely killed it at the end, it was HIS big moment of the Live Scenes album imho. Mangini just played some rhythmical variations and easy polyrhythms. Cmon MM you're better than that.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: kingshmegland on December 05, 2016, 05:22:53 PM
Finally Free would be a terrible opener. 
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: Prog Snob on December 05, 2016, 08:18:48 PM
Finally Free would be a terrible opener. 

I concur. But A Change of Seasons wouldn't be.  :metal
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: julien_fr on December 06, 2016, 03:07:19 AM
But Finally Free has already been played by Mangini. BTW, I didn't like what he did at the end of the song.. Portnoy completely killed it at the end, it was HIS big moment of the Live Scenes album imho. Mangini just played some rhythmical variations and easy polyrhythms. Cmon MM you're better than that.

Did I miss the fact that the opener is a song never played by MM ?
Can bosk1 tell us if we are getting closer, or if we are completely out of it ?

I agree that MM did "ok" on that song.
He seems like a man with such humility and lack of confidence, so maybe he hesitates to do his own stuff on the songs...
For instance, listen to the Score version of Afterlife ; at the beginning, MP does some different stuff on the cymbals from how the songs has been written.
But during the 30th anniversary tour, MM did... nothing more than what's been written. I mean, c'mon this doesn't seem too hard to improvise a little bit.
Or maybe he is held back by the other members ? Dunno.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: red barchetta on December 06, 2016, 06:26:57 AM
But Finally Free has already been played by Mangini. BTW, I didn't like what he did at the end of the song.. Portnoy completely killed it at the end, it was HIS big moment of the Live Scenes album imho. Mangini just played some rhythmical variations and easy polyrhythms. Cmon MM you're better than that.

Did I miss the fact that the opener is a song never played by MM ?
Can bosk1 tell us if we are getting closer, or if we are completely out of it ?

I agree that MM did "ok" on that song.
He seems like a man with such humility and lack of confidence, so maybe he hesitates to do his own stuff on the songs...
For instance, listen to the Score version of Afterlife ; at the beginning, MP does some different stuff on the cymbals from how the songs has been written.
But during the 30th anniversary tour, MM did... nothing more than what's been written. I mean, c'mon this doesn't seem too hard to improvise a little bit.
Or maybe he is held back by the other members ? Dunno.

He is for sure taking less space than MP. But how much can he really improvise?
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: gzarruk on December 06, 2016, 07:08:40 AM
But Finally Free has already been played by Mangini. BTW, I didn't like what he did at the end of the song.. Portnoy completely killed it at the end, it was HIS big moment of the Live Scenes album imho. Mangini just played some rhythmical variations and easy polyrhythms. Cmon MM you're better than that.

Did I miss the fact that the opener is a song never played by MM ?
Can bosk1 tell us if we are getting closer, or if we are completely out of it ?

I agree that MM did "ok" on that song.
He seems like a man with such humility and lack of confidence, so maybe he hesitates to do his own stuff on the songs...
For instance, listen to the Score version of Afterlife ; at the beginning, MP does some different stuff on the cymbals from how the songs has been written.
But during the 30th anniversary tour, MM did... nothing more than what's been written. I mean, c'mon this doesn't seem too hard to improvise a little bit.
Or maybe he is held back by the other members ? Dunno.

He is for sure taking less space than MP. But how much can he really improvise?

If he changes too much the parts, people start complaining that he's disrespectful to the songs. If he plays it the same way, people complain that he didn't put much effort on it. He just can't win :sad:

About Afterlife, did you hear the whole song? He changed the pattern on the guitar/keyboard unison line, playing it with the bell on his 2 rides vs the origina which is just "normal" drumming. Mangini's take sounds much better. He did something similar with Panic Attack.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: TheOutlawXanadu on December 06, 2016, 07:13:31 AM
My apologies if this has already been mentioned - and it probably has - but last night, the band said that they will probably bring the I&W tour to America as well. I hope they do indeed! :hefdaddy

Petrucci also said that the shows in Europe are selling really well and almost sold out in many places, so that was good to hear as well. :tup
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: TAC on December 06, 2016, 07:15:09 AM
My apologies if this has already been mentioned - and it probably has - but last night, the band said that they will probably bring the I&W tour to America as well. I hope they do indeed! :hefdaddy

Petrucci also said that the shows in Europe are selling really well and almost sold out in many places, so that was good to hear as well. :tup

No apologies needed!
That's great on both points.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: cramx3 on December 06, 2016, 07:15:38 AM
My apologies if this has already been mentioned - and it probably has - but last night, the band said that they will probably bring the I&W tour to America as well. I hope they do indeed! :hefdaddy

Petrucci also said that the shows in Europe are selling really well and almost sold out in many places, so that was good to hear as well. :tup

No apologies needed!
That's great on both points.

 :metal I definitely am glad to hear that
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: goo-goo on December 06, 2016, 07:28:58 AM
My apologies if this has already been mentioned - and it probably has - but last night, the band said that they will probably bring the I&W tour to America as well. I hope they do indeed! :hefdaddy

Petrucci also said that the shows in Europe are selling really well and almost sold out in many places, so that was good to hear as well. :tup

Seems like there will no time to go into the studio and write/record a new album.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: hefdaddy42 on December 06, 2016, 09:08:14 AM
My apologies if this has already been mentioned - and it probably has - but last night, the band said that they will probably bring the I&W tour to America as well. I hope they do indeed! :hefdaddy

Petrucci also said that the shows in Europe are selling really well and almost sold out in many places, so that was good to hear as well. :tup
Stole my post lol
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: gzarruk on December 06, 2016, 10:23:53 AM
My apologies if this has already been mentioned - and it probably has - but last night, the band said that they will probably bring the I&W tour to America as well. I hope they do indeed! :hefdaddy

Petrucci also said that the shows in Europe are selling really well and almost sold out in many places, so that was good to hear as well. :tup

Seems like there will no time to go into the studio and write/record a new album.

That's bad news for me and all the fans who will never get a DT concert anywhere close to them  :'(
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: Kotowboy on December 06, 2016, 10:32:42 AM
My apologies if this has already been mentioned - and it probably has - but last night, the band said that they will probably bring the I&W tour to America as well. I hope they do indeed! :hefdaddy

Petrucci also said that the shows in Europe are selling really well and almost sold out in many places, so that was good to hear as well. :tup

Probably a relief for all involved if The Astonishing tour was poorly attended. :tup

If it's a big success - maybe they'll think about doing other classic albums too. Awake ?
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: goo-goo on December 06, 2016, 10:50:24 AM
My apologies if this has already been mentioned - and it probably has - but last night, the band said that they will probably bring the I&W tour to America as well. I hope they do indeed! :hefdaddy

Petrucci also said that the shows in Europe are selling really well and almost sold out in many places, so that was good to hear as well. :tup

Probably a relief for all involved if The Astonishing tour was poorly attended. :tup

If it's a big success - maybe they'll think about doing other classic albums too. Awake ?

I really hope they do this also for Awake.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: YtseJamittaja on December 06, 2016, 11:05:50 AM
I place my bets to The Dance of Eternity as opener. Monster track, they have never opened with it but played it recently, they opened with instrumental on TA tour too. And that Epica clue was, I think, that it's not that long track because Bosk was listening that track and right after some Epica.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: TheAtliator on December 06, 2016, 11:06:34 AM
I hope they do it for WDADU again and SDOIT and Octavarium and SC. And in a 10 years for ADTOE
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: SwedishGoose on December 06, 2016, 11:16:57 AM
I hope they do it for WDADU again and SDOIT and Octavarium and SC. And in a 10 years for ADTOE

I hope they do 5, 10, 15 and 20th anniversarys of The Astonishing...
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: krands85 on December 06, 2016, 11:23:15 AM
My apologies if this has already been mentioned - and it probably has - but last night, the band said that they will probably bring the I&W tour to America as well. I hope they do indeed! :hefdaddy

Petrucci also said that the shows in Europe are selling really well and almost sold out in many places, so that was good to hear as well. :tup
Have they said whether or not more European dates will be added, or is the full list confirmed?
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: noxon on December 06, 2016, 11:34:29 AM
There will be more dates for the spring gap.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: MirrorMask on December 06, 2016, 11:48:20 AM
I place my bets to The Dance of Eternity as opener. Monster track, they have never opened with it but played it recently, they opened with instrumental on TA tour too.

Well, it's only mandatory to open with Dystopian Overture and Overture 1928 back in the day given they're concept albums and the instrumental overture is right at the beginning.

Starting a show with an instrumental is anticlimatic (Where is the singer?) and robs James of some relax time in the middle of the set, sure they could play a second instrumental in the middle but I just don't see them starting with one.

About Awake being played in full... I would go in "Shut up and take my money" mode if they'd announce such a tour, but they've just played the exact half of it the tour before this. Can't see them doing just that, adding "only" the first half, in two years.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: ToT-147 on December 06, 2016, 11:56:39 AM
^^^^ Yeap.. All of that.. ^^^^
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: Architeuthis on December 06, 2016, 12:06:11 PM
No need to see them re-hash all of Awake, they just played half of it on DT12 tour. I'd much rather see something more from Octavarium and a couple songs from DT12 that didn't get played,, cough,, Bigger Picture, Behind The Veil..
 2017 sounds like it's gonna be a fun tour for them where they can relax and really ROCK!   Perhaps ditch the click track and cut loose. Bring in a monster light show.  :metal
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: ToT-147 on December 06, 2016, 12:10:56 PM
I'd much rather see something more from Octavarium and a couple songs from DT12 that didn't get played,, cough,, Bigger Picture, Behind The Veil.. Surrender to Reason

FTFY.. ;)
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: gmillerdrake on December 06, 2016, 12:16:11 PM
Breaking All Illusions would be an unexpected, yet cool opener
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: Architeuthis on December 06, 2016, 12:18:51 PM
I somehow wouldn't be surprised if Never Enough was the opener.  :lol :metal
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: krands85 on December 06, 2016, 12:19:33 PM
There will be more dates for the spring gap.
:tup
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: bosk1 on December 06, 2016, 12:20:18 PM
I'd much rather see something more from Octavarium and a couple songs from DT12 that didn't get played,, cough,, Bigger Picture, Behind The Veil.. Surrender to Reason

FTFY.. ;)
Yes.  Good fix.

Breaking All Illusions would be an unexpected, yet cool opener
Indeed.  It would be.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: TAC on December 06, 2016, 12:22:46 PM
Breaking All Illusions would be an unexpected, yet cool opener
Indeed.  It would be.

Confirmed!!!! Thanks Bosk! :D

Of course I called it a week ago!
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: thosava on December 06, 2016, 12:25:05 PM
So the opener is Breaking all Illusions, and Surrender to Reason is in the set. Or it could just be that bosk is messing with us :lol
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: bosk1 on December 06, 2016, 12:29:15 PM
I am just agreeing that it would be an unexpected, yet cool opener. 

And that one of those two songs from DT12 is in the set.  Honestly, I forget which one, so even if I wanted to tell you, I couldn't.  :lol
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: Architeuthis on December 06, 2016, 12:35:40 PM
Oh but that solo in BTV !
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: TheAtliator on December 06, 2016, 02:21:28 PM
OMGOMGOMG

I hope it's Surrender to Reason!!  :biggrin: :biggrin:
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: Architeuthis on December 06, 2016, 03:29:44 PM
OMGOMGOMG

I hope it's Surrender to Reason!!  :biggrin: :biggrin:
The Bigger Picture would by my first choice.  :)
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: Prog Snob on December 06, 2016, 08:15:27 PM
OMGOMGOMG

I hope it's Surrender to Reason!!  :biggrin: :biggrin:
The Bigger Picture would by my first choice.  :)

Yeahhh. It's a tough choice between those two.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: gzarruk on December 06, 2016, 08:31:42 PM
OMGOMGOMG

I hope it's Surrender to Reason!!  :biggrin: :biggrin:
The Bigger Picture would by my first choice.  :)

Yeahhh. It's a tough choice between those two.

(http://i0.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/006/759/both.png)
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: Prog Snob on December 06, 2016, 08:41:58 PM
(http://25.media.tumblr.com/87b5b674e1d8f66202fb04d34b0d4993/tumblr_mwfpc2Fgyd1qan42po4_250.gif)
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: red barchetta on December 07, 2016, 08:17:24 AM
Still, it looks as they are doing another leg just in Europe as far as I see on their site.  No dates yet for North America so if it's the end of it, it will be a shame not being able to get that very good setlist live.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: goo-goo on December 07, 2016, 09:24:57 AM
Since Bosk1 was listening to Epica, I would think the DT opening song would be False Awakening Suite. It was kind of specifically written to be the opening theme for any DT show.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: bosk1 on December 07, 2016, 09:42:36 AM
???  What would me listening to Epica have to do with False Awakening Suite?  I don't understand the connection you are making.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: V_R11 on December 07, 2016, 01:46:52 PM
Since Bosk1 was listening to Epica, I would think the DT opening song would be False Awakening Suite. It was kind of specifically written to be the opening theme for any DT show.

Umm,no. They have opened with that. Besides,wasn't it supposed to be an unexpected opener?
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: bosk1 on December 07, 2016, 01:51:54 PM
Yeah, I'll just say straight away that that isn't it.  I mean, they could bring it back as their intro tape.  I don't know what intro they are planning on using, as that wasn't on the list I saw.  But in terms of an actual first song they are going to play, that isn't it.  But I am still curious as to what the supposed connection between that and Epica is.  I didn't understand that.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: goo-goo on December 07, 2016, 01:52:21 PM
???  What would me listening to Epica have to do with False Awakening Suite?  I don't understand the connection you are making.

LOL instrumental, orchestral...what Epica does in most of their songs  ;D

Edit: A Nightmare to Remember as opener?
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: Prog Snob on December 07, 2016, 02:16:42 PM
He must have fallen and hit his head.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: bosk1 on December 07, 2016, 02:17:13 PM
I'd like to fall and hit his head.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: goo-goo on December 07, 2016, 02:23:30 PM
I'd like to fall and hit his head.

LOL  :yarr

Anyways, not to derail anymore from this thread..

Which Images and Words song(s) are you looking forward to hear live? I am looking forward for Learning to Live....I get the goosebumps every single time I hear it.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: bosk1 on December 07, 2016, 02:29:36 PM
For me personally, I've seen the ones I really like (Pull Me Under, Metropolis, Wait For Sleep, and Learning To Live).  I don't care to ever see the others, for the most part, except that I think TTT would be cool live (assuming James can do it--man, that "pensive fear" verse is BRUTAL!), so I am looking forward to that, even though it's not otherwise a song I am very fond of.  I am more looking forward to some of the "...and beyond" songs.  Especially as if I was going to actually tell you guys.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: TAC on December 07, 2016, 02:32:58 PM
TTT would be awesome. It's not really played that often.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: cramx3 on December 07, 2016, 02:35:17 PM
Such a tease  :lol

I&W is my all time favorite album and LtL is my favorite DT song (which out of the 12 or so times I've seen them, they have not played), so seeing that live would really be awesome.  I can't wait for some US dates.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: thosava on December 07, 2016, 02:41:57 PM
Do we have to wait until the first show to know the setlist? That's so far away that i might just stop thinking about it for now  :lol
Are you allowed to tell us if any 20-minute type song is in the set at least?
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: hefdaddy42 on December 07, 2016, 02:43:23 PM
Are you allowed to tell us if any 20-minute type song is in the set at least?
Yes.  We are allowed to tell you.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: Samsara on December 07, 2016, 02:48:05 PM
I'd like to fall and hit his head.

I could, but will not, comment.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: bosk1 on December 07, 2016, 02:48:33 PM
Do we have to wait until the first show to know the setlist?

Yes.  Well, pretty much.  I am allowed to share some information.  But I am going to be judicious about it and not give away too much before the first show.

Are you allowed to tell us if any 20-minute type song is in the set at least?

No.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: Samsara on December 07, 2016, 02:57:14 PM
I personally hope James alters the Images and Words performance so he can sing without straining and give a solid performance each night. Unless he's Glenn Hughes, he's not going to be able to hit that stuff night after night. To my ear, tuning down a half step will help JLB, and really enable him and the entire band to enjoy the performance, instead of trying to replicate a record made 25 years ago.

A half-step isn't much, but it gives a singer enough.

If they don't, and do it as recorded, them James needs to change some of the lines. Unlike chief bosk, I am actually more excited to hear I&W in its entirety, rather than the beyond material. Particularly if that beyond material is post-FII.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: thosava on December 07, 2016, 03:03:38 PM
Yes.  Well, pretty much.  I am allowed to share some information.  But I am going to be judicious about it and not give away too much before the first show.

How about which albums are represented?
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: bosk1 on December 07, 2016, 03:18:20 PM
I personally hope James alters the Images and Words performance so he can sing without straining and give a solid performance each night. Unless he's Glenn Hughes, he's not going to be able to hit that stuff night after night. To my ear, tuning down a half step will help JLB, and really enable him and the entire band to enjoy the performance, instead of trying to replicate a record made 25 years ago.

A half-step isn't much, but it gives a singer enough.

No downtuning.  They are playing the original arrangements.  I specifically asked that.  That isn't to say that James won't alter some of the lines a bit or will go for harmonies instead of reaching for some of the high notes.  I would expect that that will happen.  But the band isn't altering any of the arrangements or downtuning.  JP's exact quote to me was, "James is going to have to eat his Wheaties this tour." 

That said, I guess we shouldn't completely rule it out since they haven't yet even started the tour.  If during the rehearsals, it is apparent that it is just too much, or if after a few shows, he is really struggling, they could always alter the plan.  But as it stands right now, they plan to play them as written.

Unlike chief bosk, I am actually more excited to hear I&W in its entirety, rather than the beyond material. Particularly if that beyond material is post-FII.

I am looking forward to the material up-to-and-including FII, as well as post-FII. 
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: Samsara on December 07, 2016, 03:20:31 PM
Bummer. I mean, if James pulls it off, awesome. But the likelihood of him struggling with that record at times is high. Wish they'd help him out, but hopefully he gets the pipes in shape and lets it rip.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: MirrorMask on December 07, 2016, 03:45:58 PM
Do we have to wait until the first show to know the setlist? That's so far away that i might just stop thinking about it for now  :lol

Personally, I'll wait until MY show to know the setlist  ;D

Surprises at a show of a band you like are always better than knowing the setlist, it would be like going to see a movie after having read the entire sinopsys of it, ending included.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: Prog Snob on December 07, 2016, 08:22:21 PM
I am looking forward to the material up-to-and-including FII, as well as post-FII.

So...everything. :lol  :biggrin:

Such a tease  :lol

I&W is my all time favorite album and LtL is my favorite DT song (which out of the 12 or so times I've seen them, they have not played), so seeing that live would really be awesome.  I can't wait for some US dates.

Then I won't tell you I've seen it played live many times.  :biggrin:

For me personally, I've seen the ones I really like (Pull Me Under, Metropolis, Wait For Sleep, and Learning To Live).  I don't care to ever see the others, for the most part, except that I think TTT would be cool live (assuming James can do it--man, that "pensive fear" verse is BRUTAL!), so I am looking forward to that, even though it's not otherwise a song I am very fond of.  I am more looking forward to some of the "...and beyond" songs.  Especially as if I was going to actually tell you guys.

I'm so curious to hear how he pulls some of those notes off. I can't fault him for not being able to. The guys over 50 years old ffs.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: ToT-147 on December 07, 2016, 08:50:30 PM
Are you allowed to tell us if any 20-minute type song is in the set at least?
Yes.  We are allowed to tell you.

 :lol

Wait.. So you know the setlist too?..


A half-step isn't much, but it gives a singer enough.

I think you're all forgetting that to tuning down a song, JM, JR and JP would have to relearn it... and that takes some real time, even for them.. Bear in mind that they've been playing the same songs for very long time by now... especially I&W, which is their most played live album.. That little help it would provide for james it doesn't compare with the effort the rest of the guys would have to do to provide it..
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: BlobVanDam on December 07, 2016, 09:02:36 PM
A half-step isn't much, but it gives a singer enough.

I think you're all forgetting that to tuning down a song, JM, JR and JP would have to relearn it... and that takes some real time, even for them.. Bear in mind that they've been playing the same songs for very long time by now... specially I&W, which is their most played live album.. That little help it would provide for james it doesn't compare with the effort the rest of the guys would have to do to provide it..


None of them have to relearn the song. Guitars can be tuned down, and keyboards can be transposed.

Regardless, I'm against DT tuning down, or bands tuning down in general. I want to hear it at correct pitch.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: ToT-147 on December 07, 2016, 09:13:18 PM
None of them have to relearn the song. Guitars can be tuned down, and keyboards can be transposed.

Regardless, I'm against DT tuning down, or bands tuning down in general. I want to hear it at correct pitch.

Guitars can be, but the sound it's not the same.. And about keyboards, trust me that is a pain the ass having to transpose every sound you're using, and just for one tour..

But yeah, I agree about not tuning down.. Is really easy to notice and is very distracting to the show..
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: Schurftkut on December 08, 2016, 04:43:37 AM
How cool would it be if they started with About to crash (reprise) ? :metal
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: w_marano on December 08, 2016, 04:51:57 AM
How cool would it be if they started with About to crash (reprise) ? :metal

Love that song!  :heart
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: hefdaddy42 on December 08, 2016, 07:20:12 AM
Are you allowed to tell us if any 20-minute type song is in the set at least?
Yes.  We are allowed to tell you.

 :lol

Wait.. So you know the setlist too?..
I know at least half of it.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: ToT-147 on December 08, 2016, 08:13:50 AM
Are you allowed to tell us if any 20-minute type song is in the set at least?
Yes.  We are allowed to tell you.

 :lol

Wait.. So you know the setlist too?..
I know at least half of it.

lol.. But we all know at least half of the set... ::)
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: bosk1 on December 08, 2016, 08:17:42 AM
I am looking forward to the material up-to-and-including FII, as well as post-FII.

So...everything. :lol  :biggrin:

Well...yes.  :lol  But what I was getting at was that there is really cool stuff on both sides of FII that will be getting played. 
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: SwedishGoose on December 08, 2016, 09:01:48 AM
I am looking forward to the material up-to-and-including FII, as well as post-FII.

So...everything. :lol  :biggrin:

Well...yes.  :lol  But what I was getting at was that there is really cool stuff on both sides of FII that will be getting played.

Anything cool from FII?
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: bosk1 on December 08, 2016, 09:04:17 AM
Yes
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: gzarruk on December 08, 2016, 10:44:08 AM
But from FII FII or demo FII? (or both?) :biggrin:
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: MirrorMask on December 08, 2016, 11:17:05 AM
But from FII FII or demo FII? (or both?) :biggrin:

99,9% it will be FII, I'd daresay Portnoy was the only one interested in the deep cuts and the alternate / demo versions.

And personally, I'm not longing to listen to Burning My Soul only for the song to stop in the middle to play the least interesting half of Hell's Kitchen.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: w_marano on December 08, 2016, 12:07:56 PM
But from FII FII or demo FII? (or both?) :biggrin:

99,9% it will be FII, I'd daresay Portnoy was the only one interested in the deep cuts and the alternate / demo versions.

And personally, I'm not longing to listen to Burning My Soul only for the song to stop in the middle to play the least interesting half of Hell's Kitchen.

10000% Agreed!
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: V_R11 on December 08, 2016, 12:32:53 PM
I am looking forward to the material up-to-and-including FII, as well as post-FII.

So...everything. :lol  :biggrin:

Well...yes.  :lol  But what I was getting at was that there is really cool stuff on both sides of FII that will be getting played.

Anything cool from FII?

I really want Peruvian Skies
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: ToT-147 on December 08, 2016, 12:53:11 PM
I am looking forward to the material up-to-and-including FII, as well as post-FII.

So...everything. :lol  :biggrin:

Well...yes.  :lol  But what I was getting at was that there is really cool stuff on both sides of FII that will be getting played.

Anything cool from FII?

I really want Peruvian Skies

Again?.. ;D https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HdBeeph0aFM

I'd prefer HK instead, although I assume they're going to play more than one song from FII..
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: gzarruk on December 08, 2016, 02:26:15 PM
But from FII FII or demo FII? (or both?) :biggrin:

99,9% it will be FII, I'd daresay Portnoy was the only one interested in the deep cuts and the alternate / demo versions.

And personally, I'm not longing to listen to Burning My Soul only for the song to stop in the middle to play the least interesting half of Hell's Kitchen.

With the exception of Raise the Knife, I don't care too much about the FII demos either, I was just asking to see if Bosk gave us some more details about it  :biggrin:
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: jsbru on December 08, 2016, 03:08:04 PM
He did narrow it down slightly.  Now we know there's at least one FII song.  That was sort of apparent anyway, as it's the 20th anniversary, but now we know for sure.

There's not going to be a TON of room for other stuff in the first set, because we already have at least 3 songs from TA and at least one from FII (although I'd bank on possibly two).  So there's likely to be more than one album with no representation at all.  BC&SL was one that we already know won't have any.

I still think there's a strong possibility of STR and/or TBP.  My guess is at least one, but possibly both.  Once you factor all that in, there's only 3-5 more songs to be accounted for, depending on whether there's an epic or not.  I don't think there will be much from Awake, since a lot of that has been played recently.  Although  it's been sort of a while since we've seen Erotomania/Voices.  I feel like there's got to be at least from MP2.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: erwinrafael on December 09, 2016, 01:06:21 AM
I think I know what the opening song is.

A crowd pleaser - so most likely in DT Division 1
Never played as an opener before
Played recently - so it's been played by Mangini BUT
A monster track - that needs to be transcribed by Mangini, so it is difficult to play on the drums
Bosk1 listens to Windows Media Player, which arranges albums based on alphabetical order
DT and Epica both have an album named Score
Epica's Score comes in 25 minutes after bosk1 listens to the song
The last song in DT's Score audio CD is Octavarium. But it's not played in recent years.
So it's not DT's Score audio CD. It's an audio rip of DT's Score DVD
What song comes in in the last 25 minutes of DT's Score DVD?

THE GREAT DEBATE

Which is why bosk hinted he is listening to it right now. It also means he's listening to the DTF faithful having a great debate on what the opening song is. :lol
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: devieira73 on December 09, 2016, 05:10:00 AM
If I remember correctly, JP said in some interview (or to someone here on DTF) that, at the last tour they played TGD, this song always had a cold reception from the crowd. So I guess DT will not open with that one. In fact, because of this, I guess DT will never play TGD live again, at least at a "regular" show, not celebreting any 6 Degrees anniversary.
I think they will not open with any of the 2 monsters songs mentioned by Mangini. These 2 songs were recently transcribed by him, right? According to Bosk,  the opener it's a song already played by Mangini ("played in recent tours").
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: MirrorMask on December 09, 2016, 05:12:28 AM
I hope it's Breaking All Illusions, I don't want them to open with The Dark Eternal Night... or to play it ever again at the shows I will attend  ;D

Maybe it's Illumination Theory, but my of course unsustained guess is that DT12 will be represented by the "missing" songs, The Bigger Picture and Surrender to Reason.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: Chino on December 09, 2016, 06:24:00 AM
I hope it's Breaking All Illusions, I don't want them to open with The Dark Eternal Night... or to play it ever again at the shows I will attend  ;D


I find TDEN to be incredibly boring.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: cramx3 on December 09, 2016, 01:10:51 PM
I hope it's Breaking All Illusions, I don't want them to open with The Dark Eternal Night... or to play it ever again at the shows I will attend  ;D


I find TDEN to be incredibly boring.

I wouldn't say boring, but I'm not a big fan of the song.  I'd be fine if they did not play this at anymore DT shows I attend having seen it at least 3 times.

Maybe they open with Learning to Live and are actually playing Images and Words backwards? 
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: TAC on December 09, 2016, 01:11:47 PM
But Bosk said it was a song they've never opened with, right?
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: cramx3 on December 09, 2016, 01:14:16 PM
But Bosk said it was a song they've never opened with, right?

They've opened with Learning to Live before?
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: mikeyd23 on December 09, 2016, 01:27:13 PM
Maybe they open with Learning to Live and are actually playing Images and Words backwards?

That actually might be really cool.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: TAC on December 09, 2016, 01:33:18 PM
But Bosk said it was a song they've never opened with, right?

They've opened with Learning to Live before?

http://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=30775.0
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: cramx3 on December 09, 2016, 01:37:03 PM
But Bosk said it was a song they've never opened with, right?

They've opened with Learning to Live before?

http://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=30775.0

Figured it would be from the good ole days.  That'd be an interesting opener though.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: gzarruk on December 09, 2016, 01:43:29 PM
But Bosk said it was a song they've never opened with, right?

They've opened with Learning to Live before?

http://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=30775.0

Figured it would be from the good ole days.  That'd be an interesting opener though.

Don't think that's a good idea, though. LTL is one of those songs that could be used for the climax of the show. If you start with it, how do you even top that or mantain that momentum going through the rest of the set?  :eek
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: cramx3 on December 09, 2016, 01:47:16 PM
But Bosk said it was a song they've never opened with, right?

They've opened with Learning to Live before?

http://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=30775.0

Figured it would be from the good ole days.  That'd be an interesting opener though.

Don't think that's a good idea, though. LTL is one of those songs that could be used for the climax of the song. If you start with it, how do you even top that or mantain that momentum going through the rest of the set?  :eek

While I agree with your point, the ending of such a set would be PMU which is also another climax type of song since it's a popular one.  DT have plenty of good climax hitting songs though.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: gzarruk on December 09, 2016, 01:51:42 PM
While I agree with your point, the ending of such a set would be PMU which is also another climax type of song since it's a popular one.  DT have plenty of good climax hitting songs though.

Of course they can pull it and it would end up being good, I just don't think it would be the best move. It's like using your hidden ace at the start of the game. You can, but you probably shouldn't  :biggrin:
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: cramx3 on December 09, 2016, 01:56:46 PM
Yea, being that LtL is my favorite DT song, I'd rather it be at the end personally too
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: ToT-147 on December 09, 2016, 02:46:29 PM
I still think there's a strong possibility of STR and/or TBP.  My guess is at least one, but possibly both.

my of course unsustained guess is that DT12 will be represented by the "missing" songs, The Bigger Picture and Surrender to Reason.

Actually, one of those songs WILL BE played, Bosk already confirmed that... although he apparently forgot which one.. :justjen
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: erwinrafael on December 14, 2016, 08:55:03 PM
Given that I am sticking to my guess that the opening is The Great Debate based on bosk's clues, that there is at least one FII song, either StR or TBP would be played, at least 3 Astonishing songs, here is the set I came up with:

Set 1:
The Great Debate (the unexpected opener)
The Gift of Music
The Root of all Evil (crowd pleaser)
Chosen
Surrender to Reason (the song not played before)
A New Beginning
Hell's Kitchen/Lines in the Sand (the first monster track)
Our New World

Set 2:
Pull Me Under
Another Day
Take the Time
Surrounded
Metropolis Pt. 1
Under a Glass Moon
Wait for Sleep
Learning to Live

Encore:
A Change of Seasons (the second monster track)

18 songs. around 2 and a half hours just like BTFW.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: phospheneSOI on December 15, 2016, 09:21:31 AM
So UK dates have been announced, I've been checking relentlessly cos I had this feeling they might do my home city Cardiff and it turns they are playing here. The idea of seeing Images and Words performed 10 minutes down the road with me was so exciting.

But I'm not going.

My friends and I had a group chat (7 of us). We all loved DT as teenagers (some of us still listen to the band, others seldom) but - despite the fact we all think I&W is great and loved the idea of having a big social night out together - we've decided to pass.

1) Ticket prices are extortionate. Compared to what I paid for the likes of King Crimson, Steven Wilson, Snarky Puppy etc in the same city they're having a laugh if they think they - especially with JLB's unpredictable vocals - are worth that.

As a comparison, Peter Gabriel played the same venue a year ago... much bigger band, his usual excellent visuals and stage show... half the price. I cannot get my head around it.

2) It's seated. In the Motorpoint Arena. Seated in one of ours theaters would have felt intimate and nice - but seated in the Motorpoint is cold, stale and a very underwhelming experience.

My friends and I wanted to be able to cluster round in a little gang, have a sing-song and drinks together, be able to go out and have a cig when there's maybe a song we've seen before etc. Seated in the Motorpoint takes all that experience away.


So yeah, we're not going. I'm genuinely quite sad but it's really about value for money. We all said that if tickets were around £40 before booking fees we would have gone. DT have lost out on £280 worth of ticket sales... and to be honest I imagine many more fans around my age (28) will feel exactly the same.

Cardiff also has a strong metal scene but a lot of the metallers who might have attended as casual fans will not do a seated gig either... it's a fairly big venue the Motorpoint so good luck DT...

(Edit: just in case a pendant tries to get me, there are a small amount of cheap seats around the £40 mark but that doesn't change anything, I'd expect all seats to be around that and even then would massivly prefer standing for that price).
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: Tony From Long Island on December 15, 2016, 09:31:22 AM
I am also concerned about prices, as I am not exactly flowing in the dough.

However, I haven't seen DT since 1999 (saw them about 20 times during the 90's and then I was locked up from '01 til '13).   I would have to get permission to go, so I didn't ask to see the last tour since I am not fond of The Astonishing.

However, when they play Long Island - which I am sure they will do - I will go.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: noxon on December 15, 2016, 02:13:14 PM
DT doesn't set the ticket prices. DT sets the price for the show. It's up to the tour booker/promoter to fit the price into the venue they've chosen. If the tour booker decides they want to book a 2000 seater, and have to charge twice of that of which they would've charged for a 4000 seater, then thats their choice.

Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: MirrorMask on December 15, 2016, 03:11:02 PM
I would assume also the venue itself has a fee for booking it that influences the price.

There's a local folk artist that I follow, I saw him in two still medium-big places (venues played by Avantasia and Alice Cooper) and the ticket was 20 euros, when he played the same basket arena that DT always play the ticket was 32 euro, and next year he will play in the Meazza Stadium and the price is around 50 euros. Eeek.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: Madman Shepherd on December 15, 2016, 03:34:48 PM
Like someone else said, we probably won't be hearing The Great Debate again live. 

They actually took it out of the ADTOE set because they felt it wasn't getting a good reception.  Thank god I saw them before they took it out as it was one of the highlights.  The Happy Holidays version is also incredible.  So thankful we got a live version of that released (and for freeeeeee!)
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: Dream Team on December 15, 2016, 06:41:00 PM
Like someone else said, we probably won't be hearing The Great Debate again live. 

They actually took it out of the ADTOE set because they felt it wasn't getting a good reception.  Thank god I saw them before they took it out as it was one of the highlights.  The Happy Holidays version is also incredible.  So thankful we got a live version of that released (and for freeeeeee!)

I envy you. Sucks that so few others appreciate TGD.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: ToT-147 on December 15, 2016, 08:01:18 PM
Ticket prices are extortionate. Compared to what I paid for the likes of King Crimson, Steven Wilson, Snarky Puppy etc in the same city they're having a laugh if they think they - especially with JLB's unpredictable vocals - are worth that.

They are worth that, and more than that too.. If you don't have the money, now that's another thing.. And I've been there.. Two years ago I didn't have enough money and the ticket was, indeed, too much expensive for me.. Fortunately my brother bought me the ticket, and it was the best show I've ever seen on a stage of any kind..

About James' performance, I can't really complain either.. He was fine in most of the times I went to see them, and especially outstanding in that AFTR show, and well... in LaLP :angel:..
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: Madman Shepherd on December 15, 2016, 09:59:02 PM
Like someone else said, we probably won't be hearing The Great Debate again live. 

They actually took it out of the ADTOE set because they felt it wasn't getting a good reception.  Thank god I saw them before they took it out as it was one of the highlights.  The Happy Holidays version is also incredible.  So thankful we got a live version of that released (and for freeeeeee!)

I envy you. Sucks that so few others appreciate TGD.

Funny thing is, I really didn't appreciate it until shortly before the tour.  I always skipped that song.  I can't remember what finally got me into it.  I think I may have cheated and looked at the set or maybe I just had it on the background and it was too inconvenient to skip and it just finally clicked. 

Either way, DT were right about the cold reception but damn it, I tuned out the bad reception and focused on an amazing performance of an amazing song. 
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: gzarruk on December 15, 2016, 10:15:51 PM
Like someone else said, we probably won't be hearing The Great Debate again live. 

They actually took it out of the ADTOE set because they felt it wasn't getting a good reception.  Thank god I saw them before they took it out as it was one of the highlights.  The Happy Holidays version is also incredible.  So thankful we got a live version of that released (and for freeeeeee!)

I envy you. Sucks that so few others appreciate TGD.

Funny thing is, I really didn't appreciate it until shortly before the tour.  I always skipped that song.  I can't remember what finally got me into it.  I think I may have cheated and looked at the set or maybe I just had it on the background and it was too inconvenient to skip and it just finally clicked. 

Either way, DT were right about the cold reception but damn it, I tuned out the bad reception and focused on an amazing performance of an amazing song.

TGD is my favorite song from SDOIT. Would be really sad if they never play it again  :'(
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: Anguyen92 on December 15, 2016, 11:35:24 PM
My friends and I had a group chat (7 of us). We all loved DT as teenagers (some of us still listen to the band, others seldom) but - despite the fact we all think I&W is great and loved the idea of having a big social night out together - we've decided to pass.

1) Ticket prices are extortionate. Compared to what I paid for the likes of King Crimson, Steven Wilson, Snarky Puppy etc in the same city they're having a laugh if they think they - especially with JLB's unpredictable vocals - are worth that.

My friends and I wanted to be able to cluster round in a little gang, have a sing-song and drinks together, be able to go out and have a cig when there's maybe a song we've seen before etc. Seated in the Motorpoint takes all that experience away.

So yeah, we're not going. I'm genuinely quite sad but it's really about value for money. We all said that if tickets were around £40 before booking fees we would have gone. DT have lost out on £280 worth of ticket sales... and to be honest I imagine many more fans around my age (28) will feel exactly the same.

Cardiff also has a strong metal scene but a lot of the metallers who might have attended as casual fans will not do a seated gig either... it's a fairly big venue the Motorpoint so good luck DT...

It's the interesting thing about it.  Alter Bridge recently headlined at Motorpoint Arena in Cardiff with a four-band bill and they were charging around 30-35 pounds and that was roughly the price for 6-7 arenas in their UK tour and from what I hear that didn't sell too greatly (far from a flop, but it wasn't a "great" success, but that could be blamed with the oversaturation of big bands touring the UK around the autumn).  Though, I heard one guy from Ultimate-Guitar making a comment where even though they sold all the tickets out for their show in the O2 Arena in London, there were loads of tickets in secondary market sites that was charging in the three digits.

I don't think DT though would have any issues regarding secondary market sales where people are putting ticket prices in three digits though I do hear some grumblings in areas like the Download Festival (probably the biggest hard rock/heavy metal festival in the UK) Forum that was also complaining about the steep-ish price that could turn off casual fans from attending this thing (even if they like Images and Words).  Don't know what the promoters were thinking about setting this price though.  It's been that sort of price in the last few tours as well.  Do they really expect fans to pay that much for a band with the popularity like DT even if they are going three hours a night?
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: rumborak on December 16, 2016, 02:30:47 AM
There's also the danger of being perceived as a nostalgia act by the general public when you start touring for an old album of yours and charge exorbitant prices.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: noxon on December 16, 2016, 04:34:36 AM
DT is having -5- concerts in norway in february. One of those concerts is in the venue they usually play.

This is not good...
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: kingshmegland on December 16, 2016, 04:55:09 AM
There's also the danger of being perceived as a nostalgia act by the general public when you start touring for an old album of yours and charge exorbitant prices.

As long as a band continues to release new music that nostalgic tours are ok.  When you don't come out with music in 10 years and still tour, that's when it feels nostalgic.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: SwedishGoose on December 16, 2016, 05:10:52 AM
Definitivt a nostalgia act... the last tour was just one album in it's entirity  ::)
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: Estiui on December 16, 2016, 05:33:13 AM
Barcelona confirmed, YESSSSS  :hefdaddy

New theory about bosk's messages: he was listening to the song before Epica, so it's a song that precedes an epic.  :laugh:
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: rumborak on December 16, 2016, 05:42:26 AM
There's also the danger of being perceived as a nostalgia act by the general public when you start touring for an old album of yours and charge exorbitant prices.

As long as a band continues to release new music that nostalgic tours are ok.  When you don't come out with music in 10 years and still tour, that's when it feels nostalgic.

For the most part I agree, but as a counterexample I would bring up Extreme. Saw them for the Pornograffitti tour this year, and while Sausades exists, and they played songs from it, I would still label the whole tour a nostalgia tour.

For me it's actually mostly about the money you charge. By charging large amounts of money you consciously focus on affluent (read: older) fans who grew up with the album. It moves the focus away from gaining new fans.

Again, not necessarily saying DT is at that stage. Then again it's hard to put yourself into the mind of a general metal fan who is only peripherally aware of DT. For them a tour like that might mean something different than to us.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: kingshmegland on December 16, 2016, 06:05:53 AM
I get the money part.  I shy away from those shows.  But as an example if Extreme comes out with a new album, I'm ok with these "anniversary" tours.  I choose for the most part, to skip them
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: mikeyd23 on December 16, 2016, 06:25:34 AM
Yeah, one tour celebrating an anniversary of your most popular album doesn't make you a nostalgia act, especially when all your other touring still is mainly in support of a new album with new music.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: Jinx on December 16, 2016, 10:25:18 PM
Sorry to go back to the opener discussion...

What I would like to know is whether this song is from a MM era album or not?
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: theinuu on December 18, 2016, 10:31:42 PM
I would guess that the opener will be These Walls. It has been played in the MM-era, it is a crowd pleaser and and it has been never used as an opener (I guess?). IMHO, the intro of the song fits as a show opener but the song itself as an opener is not an obvious choice.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: Stewie on December 18, 2016, 10:48:15 PM
I'm really not sure how they expect James to possibly pull this off... No disrespect intended, but they need to seriously take his vocal limitations into account moving forward. As much as I love The Astonishing, when I saw them on this tour he was straining and struggling the whole way thru the show. It was painful. After the show I asked my girlfriend what she thought, and she said "the instrumentalists were amazing, but I couldn't understand a single word from the singer". And it's true, because when he's straining THAT much to hit the notes, his pronunciation and articulation goes out the window; vocals basically get reduced to nonsensical wailing at that point.

I really like The Astonishing, but I feel like they didn't really take into account how hard it would be for him to pull off those parts night after night on tour. It's one thing to do it in the studio, where you can do as many takes as you need, but an entirely different ball game live. So...not sure how on earth they think James will be able to pull this I&W tour off. It'll probably end up sounding like Wacken...and we all know how terrible that was.

Speaking of which, that reminds me - why the hell would you open up a show with Afterlife and Metropolis?! Those are two of the hardest songs to sing live, and it makes absolutely zero sense to expect James to pull them off right out of the gate. If anything, they should've been at the end of the show, after he's been able to warm up nicely. Like how did they not think of that? Surely James would've looked at that and said yeah, that's not a good idea. I feel like overall the band has made some really bizarre decisions post MP, many of which make no sense to me. Anyway, I think they could re-arrange some of the parts to make them more suitable for his current range. I'd much rather hear a slightly altered arrangement that sounds in tune than the *original* that sounds painful, and is embarrassing and drags down the rest of the band. But hey, what do I know.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: Cyclopssss on December 19, 2016, 01:14:51 AM
I'll see them in Amsterdam in april.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: AboutToCrash on December 19, 2016, 06:46:20 AM
I'm really not sure how they expect James to possibly pull this off... No disrespect intended, but they need to seriously take his vocal limitations into account moving forward. As much as I love The Astonishing, when I saw them on this tour he was straining and struggling the whole way thru the show. It was painful. After the show I asked my girlfriend what she thought, and she said "the instrumentalists were amazing, but I couldn't understand a single word from the singer". And it's true, because when he's straining THAT much to hit the notes, his pronunciation and articulation goes out the window; vocals basically get reduced to nonsensical wailing at that point.

I really like The Astonishing, but I feel like they didn't really take into account how hard it would be for him to pull off those parts night after night on tour. It's one thing to do it in the studio, where you can do as many takes as you need, but an entirely different ball game live. So...not sure how on earth they think James will be able to pull this I&W tour off. It'll probably end up sounding like Wacken...and we all know how terrible that was.

Speaking of which, that reminds me - why the hell would you open up a show with Afterlife and Metropolis?! Those are two of the hardest songs to sing live, and it makes absolutely zero sense to expect James to pull them off right out of the gate. If anything, they should've been at the end of the show, after he's been able to warm up nicely. Like how did they not think of that? Surely James would've looked at that and said yeah, that's not a good idea. I feel like overall the band has made some really bizarre decisions post MP, many of which make no sense to me. Anyway, I think they could re-arrange some of the parts to make them more suitable for his current range. I'd much rather hear a slightly altered arrangement that sounds in tune than the *original* that sounds painful, and is embarrassing and drags down the rest of the band. But hey, what do I know.

Completely agree, I saw the Astonishing live on the first date only weeks after the release and he sung like he recorded the album 20 years prior, He was overall poor. Though the performance did get far better towards the end of the show, but I think when you hear his solo stuff he seems to be singing in his perfect range which is why he sounds so much better. I don't think JP takes his range into consideration much because since MP left I have noticed a lot of higher notes and melodies (In comparison to 8VM, SC and BC&SL). Melodies that he no doubt struggles to recreate live. It's a shame because out of almost any singer I know, I have never seen such a gulf in quality between studio and live performances... He sings things differently, He almost sounds like a different person. He gets good nights but overall I think him performing Images and Words in it's entirety the pitch it was originally created will not end well. I usually try and defend him as much as I can but he's been very poor live recently. I have no problem with his studio sound, In fact he is one of my favourite all time singers when it comes to the studio, But surely he and the rest of the band must realise how he sounds live? I have no issues with singers not being able to hit certain notes or make mistakes live but to sound like a totally different person is strange to say the least. It's bearable for long time DT fans because they are anticipating these types of performances before the show, but if you're taking a friend and trying to introduce them to the pioneers of the genre and they hear that, they must think what the earth is going on?
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: Jinx on December 19, 2016, 07:11:05 AM
Exactly the same as AboutToCrash, I saw them on that very first show in London and as soon as he struggled with Gift of Music I feared the worst with regards to the rest of the night. Alas, as the night went on he got into it (bar Moment of Betrayal which was a nightmare!).

As soon as this was announced I just kept thinking about how Another Day, Learning to Live and Take The Time will sound. James struggled back on that Chaos in Motion DVD with TTT so who knows what could happen.

As it is I'm taking a mate who has been very skeptical of the band referring to the as a poor Pink Floyd tribute. Hopefully James doesnt let me down! (My friend changed his tune a bit after seeing Mike Mangini on LALP actually - fancies himself a bit of a drummer)
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: Evai on December 19, 2016, 01:35:21 PM

Speaking of which, that reminds me - why the hell would you open up a show with Afterlife and Metropolis?! Those are two of the hardest songs to sing live, and it makes absolutely zero sense to expect James to pull them off right out of the gate.

Well, the setlist was another one of those chronological ones they like to do.. Gotta tell the history of the band, who cares about the singing quality!
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: Anguyen92 on December 19, 2016, 05:27:27 PM
^^ The singing quality is the one of the more vital aspects of a live show.  A poor singing performance can really affect people's enjoyment of the show, even if the music playing is strong.  I get telling the history of the band, but maybe they could have made better choices that can accommodate JLB's current voice and how it would hold in a two month tour.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: Stewie on December 19, 2016, 07:47:48 PM
Exactly - the singing can really make it or break it. I can't tell you how many times I've introduced a friend to DT, they start to really get into the studio albums, but the minute they hear some of his live singing, they're done. It really drags down the rest of the band, badly. Which is a shame, because for long-time fans, we know he can sing and has the potential to sound awesome. What he's going thru is due to nothing more than simple aging. It's just life. He's not any less talented - I just think they need to start taking his current singing limitations into account, and be smarter about it. They need to be realistic...when a band gets older, I prefer them to embrace their age and own it, than try to pretend like they can still pull out all the stops from their youthful days.

And, as far as the Wacken setlist being chronological - there was really no need for that, whatsoever. They already did that on the 8V tour, and it really didn't make sense to do it again on a festival tour. They weren't celebrating anything in particular, so for that reason especially, it made zero sense. Those songs should've been at the end of the set, greatly increasing his chances to do them justice.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: ? on December 20, 2016, 01:04:03 AM
I'm pretty sure Evai was being sarcastic. :P

But yeah, I thought playing those songs in the chronological order wasn't a great idea - not just because of James' voice, but the pacing as well. Metropolis as the second song and Behind the Veil as the closer? Come on!
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: Cyclopssss on December 20, 2016, 03:37:47 AM
Well then they need to adjust their writing to Jame's abilities. Come on, it's not rocket science. Fates did it. It's the smart thing to do. He just can't get up there anymore, then adjust the parts.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: rumborak on December 20, 2016, 04:43:41 AM
The problem is, there's a LOT of fans out there who equate good singing with F#s and G5s.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: Kotowboy on December 20, 2016, 05:39:30 AM
The problem is, there's a LOT of fans out there who equate good singing with F#s and G5s.

And people who think a solo is only any good if it's super fast and complex.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: rumborak on December 20, 2016, 05:59:24 AM
I hope they drop the no-camera thing again. I wouldn't mind seeing some videos of shows. If they really don't release any DVD of TA, that tour may become the Forgotten Tour.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: hefdaddy42 on December 20, 2016, 08:04:30 AM
I hope they drop the no-camera thing again. I wouldn't mind seeing some videos of shows.
I asked Maddi (JP's guitar tech) about that rule when I saw them earlier this month.  He said that rule will die with the end of The Astonishing, cameras will be allowed again (unless any particular venue has an issue with them).
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: cramx3 on December 20, 2016, 08:17:12 AM
I hope they drop the no-camera thing again. I wouldn't mind seeing some videos of shows.
I asked Maddi (JP's guitar tech) about that rule when I saw them earlier this month.  He said that rule will die with the end of The Astonishing, cameras will be allowed again (unless any particular venue has an issue with them).

While I didn't like the rule, it at least makes sense in a broadway theater sense of the way the show was presented... but let's get back to rock n roll concerts and ditch the rules.  :metal
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: julien_fr on December 20, 2016, 10:11:13 AM
And, as far as the Wacken setlist being chronological - there was really no need for that, whatsoever. They already did that on the 8V tour, and it really didn't make sense to do it again on a festival tour. They weren't celebrating anything in particular, so for that reason especially, it made zero sense. Those songs should've been at the end of the set, greatly increasing his chances to do them justice.

That wasn't just a festival tour, they were celebrating their 30th anniversary.
The idea was to play one song per album they had released.
On festivals, the setlist was shortened ; but on bigger venues (= DT Show + Guests), they played the complete one-song-per-album setlist, in the chronological album release order.
I saw them in Arles, France, and we had that complete setlist. I saw them few days later in Barcelona at the Barcelona Rock Fest and they had dropped Caught in a Web, A Change of Seasons pt. II, About to Crash, and Wither.
Mostly because they had less time, obviously.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: Bertielee on December 20, 2016, 12:32:55 PM
And, as far as the Wacken setlist being chronological - there was really no need for that, whatsoever. They already did that on the 8V tour, and it really didn't make sense to do it again on a festival tour. They weren't celebrating anything in particular, so for that reason especially, it made zero sense. Those songs should've been at the end of the set, greatly increasing his chances to do them justice.

That wasn't just a festival tour, they were celebrating their 30th anniversary.
The idea was to play one song per album they had released.
On festivals, the setlist was shortened ; but on bigger venues (= DT Show + Guests), they played the complete one-song-per-album setlist, in the chronological album release order.
I saw them in Arles, France, and we had that complete setlist. I saw them few days later in Barcelona at the Barcelona Rock Fest and they had dropped Caught in a Web, A Change of Seasons pt. II, About to Crash, and Wither.
Mostly because they had less time, obviously.

Hello, fellow French forumer. Enjoy your stay here!

B.Lee
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: CB on December 20, 2016, 12:36:22 PM
The problem is, there's a LOT of fans out there who equate good singing with F#s and G5s.

And people who think a solo is only any good if it's super fast and complex.

They confuse art with sport ::)

And I will never understand why people think it's necessary for a male vocalist to sing in the soprano range... I actually prefer a more natural sound.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: Tony From Long Island on December 20, 2016, 01:48:50 PM
I guess that depends on your definition of "natural."         

Males have been making a living singing high notes since the beginning of time.      See "Farinelli"   (but, of course, Farinelli was a castrato, so he was not "natural").


Also, I am not aware of anything in the Dream Theater catalog that would be considered "Soprano"  sung by a male.  Ya might wanna do  a bit of research on what a soprano is.     Very little of what JLB sings is in falsetto.   Just my opinion, but what do I know . . .
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: Tony From Long Island on December 20, 2016, 01:58:36 PM
The problem is, there's a LOT of fans out there who equate good singing with F#s and G5s.

And people who think a solo is only any good if it's super fast and complex.


As the Late Great Peppi Marchello said:   "Speed Ain't Nothing Without Class"
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: rumborak on December 20, 2016, 03:19:02 PM
But, as Fat Mr Crab and Uli Rottweiler used to say on dt.net, "speed = emotion". So, who are we to believe?
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: CB on December 20, 2016, 03:44:09 PM
I guess that depends on your definition of "natural."         

Males have been making a living singing high notes since the beginning of time.      See "Farinelli"   (but, of course, Farinelli was a castrato, so he was not "natural").


Also, I am not aware of anything in the Dream Theater catalog that would be considered "Soprano"  sung by a male.  Ya might wanna do  a bit of research on what a soprano is.     Very little of what JLB sings is in falsetto.   Just my opinion, but what do I know . . .


I have to clarify. I wasn't talking about JLB singing falsetto (and if he does it fits the part of the song). I was talking about (Prog)Metal singers and high notes in general. What I meant is that I don't see the necessity for male vocalists to sing notes in the soprano RANGE (referring to the F#s and G5s). Opera tenors don't have to do that. Extremely high notes are so important for metal fans that some actually propose bands should change their singer every 10 years ...  of course it's just my personal taste, but I don't think notes in the stratosphere make a song better, but they lead to trouble when the singer gets older and the natural drop of range happens.
I didn't mean DT/JLB sound unnatural, it's just that in some songs (not DTs) very high vocal parts just don't sound good in my ears. I know nobody will agree but Queen of the Reich is one of them, in the high parts the voice is just too piercing and thin for me, and I like GTs voice a lot when he's singing in a tenor range.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: Stewie on December 20, 2016, 09:18:07 PM
I hope they drop the no-camera thing again. I wouldn't mind seeing some videos of shows.
I asked Maddi (JP's guitar tech) about that rule when I saw them earlier this month.  He said that rule will die with the end of The Astonishing, cameras will be allowed again (unless any particular venue has an issue with them).

Hmm...interesting. That almost makes me wonder if they made that rule specifically because of how horrible JLB sounds on this tour? I find it crazy to think that such an incredibly talented bunch of musicians would be oblivious to it. Or perhaps JLB himself requested this, out of sheer embarrassment? Seems reasonable to me, but who knows.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: KevShmev on December 20, 2016, 09:36:16 PM
  That almost makes me wonder if they made that rule specifically because of how horrible JLB sounds on this tour? I find it crazy to think that such an incredibly talented bunch of musicians would be oblivious to it. Or perhaps JLB himself requested this, out of sheer embarrassment? Seems reasonable to me, but who knows.

This is a joke, right?

And an extremely poor one, at that.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: Stewie on December 20, 2016, 09:40:42 PM
  That almost makes me wonder if they made that rule specifically because of how horrible JLB sounds on this tour? I find it crazy to think that such an incredibly talented bunch of musicians would be oblivious to it. Or perhaps JLB himself requested this, out of sheer embarrassment? Seems reasonable to me, but who knows.

This is a joke, right?

And an extremely poor one, at that.

Um, nope. Don't see why you think it's a "poor joke" just because you disagree. The fact of the matter is that he has had a very hard time singing this tour, and many others have noticed it as well. Seems logical that he would've at some point made that request. Apparently I've offended you, so...sorry.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: KevShmev on December 20, 2016, 09:43:49 PM
  That almost makes me wonder if they made that rule specifically because of how horrible JLB sounds on this tour? I find it crazy to think that such an incredibly talented bunch of musicians would be oblivious to it. Or perhaps JLB himself requested this, out of sheer embarrassment? Seems reasonable to me, but who knows.

This is a joke, right?

And an extremely poor one, at that.

Um, nope. Don't see why you think it's a "poor joke" just because you disagree. The fact of the matter is that he has had a very hard time singing this tour, and many others have noticed it as well. Seems logical that he would've at some point made that request. Apparently I've offended you, so...sorry.

You have not offended me.  I was just chuckling at what I thought was a poor attempt at a joke, but oh wait, you were serious.

Okay, first... :lol :lol :lol :lol

Second, the band made this request before the tour started, so it's not like they decided on the fly, "Hey, our singer sounds awful; let's ban cameras!"

Third, JLB takes shit from some fans on every tour, some of which he deserves, because he can be very hit or miss live.  When I saw him, he was mostly fine, except for a handful of moments where he tried to overdo it (which I am not sure why he still does that).

Fourth, the I&W material will be much more difficult to sing than the TA stuff, so how would it make sense to allow cameras again, if that were the reason?
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: Stewie on December 20, 2016, 09:58:58 PM
  That almost makes me wonder if they made that rule specifically because of how horrible JLB sounds on this tour? I find it crazy to think that such an incredibly talented bunch of musicians would be oblivious to it. Or perhaps JLB himself requested this, out of sheer embarrassment? Seems reasonable to me, but who knows.

This is a joke, right?

And an extremely poor one, at that.

Um, nope. Don't see why you think it's a "poor joke" just because you disagree. The fact of the matter is that he has had a very hard time singing this tour, and many others have noticed it as well. Seems logical that he would've at some point made that request. Apparently I've offended you, so...sorry.

You have not offended me.  I was just chuckling at what I thought was a poor attempt at a joke, but oh wait, you were serious.

Okay, first... :lol :lol :lol :lol

Second, the band made this request before the tour started, so it's not like they decided on the fly, "Hey, our singer sounds awful; let's ban cameras!"

Third, JLB takes shit from some fans on every tour, some of which he deserves, because he can be very hit or miss live.  When I saw him, he was mostly fine, except for a handful of moments where he tried to overdo it (which I am not sure why he still does that).

Fourth, the I&W material will be much more difficult to sing than the TA stuff, so how would it make sense to allow cameras again, if that were the reason?

Eh, I don't know man. All those points you made can be easily dismissed. In response to your second point, they could've very feasibly anticipated that it would be very difficult for JLB to pull off live night after night, hence the "no video recording" rule. As for your third point, JLB has indeed taken criticism his whole career, however the difference in quality between studio recording and live presentation is arguably the most on this tour, and it seems reasonable that he would've made such a request, to at least limit it to the people who were actually there. Perhaps it's a stretch, but that's why I said in my original post - it almost makes me wonder. It's just a theory - I'm not saying this is the case. As per your fourth point, I don't know if I&W is actually harder to sing, but in the event that it is, you make a very solid point there.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: Adami on December 20, 2016, 10:01:31 PM
It seems (based on what I've seen) that JLB sounds no real better or worse than other tours.

So picking this tour to do that crazy illogical thing you suggested is crazy illogical.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: Stewie on December 20, 2016, 10:04:53 PM
It seems (based on what I've seen) that JLB sounds no real better or worse than other tours.

So picking this tour to do that crazy illogical thing you suggested is crazy illogical.

Really? From what little footage there is...he's reaaaally struggling bad. He's been straining really hard to hit the notes; basic pronunciation and articulation is completely absent, and often times it's hard to even make out what the lyrics are. Compared to footage from other tours, it is hands down the worst I've heard him in a long, long time. And the shows I've attended on this tour have been no different, so...don't know what else to tell you really.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: BlobVanDam on December 20, 2016, 10:11:39 PM
Regardless of how good or bad he may be singing on the tour, the idea is ludicrous. As has been pointed out, this rule was in place from the start of the tour, not in response to live reception. If they thought he sounded that bad that they didn't want any evidence of it, banning cameras wouldn't make much difference. If they felt he sounded that bad, they wouldn't be delivering the show to audiences, because word of mouth still exists. There would be many more effective solutions to that problem.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: Prog Snob on December 20, 2016, 10:16:14 PM
Especially considering there were plenty of audio bootlegs for the tour. The banning of video cameras was more to keep the display of the show a surprise, I'm assuming.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: AboutToCrash on December 21, 2016, 04:28:58 AM
for such a lyrically dominant album it simply couldn't be understood live.. This was the first night at the London Palladium too so there were no shows before it. When I saw them twice on the tour DT12 tour he was far better. I think this tour out of all previous required the most focus on articulation so it's a shame, I know he can do better!
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: Jinx on December 21, 2016, 04:44:00 AM
I thought that the no cameras rule was due to them playing these theaters where that rule is most likely standard. Especially at the Palladium there was proper no camera signs up everywhere anyway. Theater's doing, not the band's.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: noxon on December 21, 2016, 06:14:33 AM
The camera rule was -expressly- the bands wishes. The guards at the Oslo venue were pretty annoyed by having to chase down and toss out people with cameras, as they usually didnt do this at that venue.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: mikeyd23 on December 21, 2016, 06:33:22 AM
It seems (based on what I've seen) that JLB sounds no real better or worse than other tours.

So picking this tour to do that crazy illogical thing you suggested is crazy illogical.

Really? From what little footage there is...he's reaaaally struggling bad. He's been straining really hard to hit the notes; basic pronunciation and articulation is completely absent, and often times it's hard to even make out what the lyrics are. Compared to footage from other tours, it is hands down the worst I've heard him in a long, long time. And the shows I've attended on this tour have been no different, so...don't know what else to tell you really.

I gotta ask... Stewie did you actually see TA live? Or are you basing your opinion off of a few random YouTube videos?
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: erwinrafael on December 21, 2016, 06:43:45 AM
for such a lyrically dominant album it simply couldn't be understood live.. This was the first night at the London Palladium too so there were no shows before it. When I saw them twice on the tour DT12 tour he was far better. I think this tour out of all previous required the most focus on articulation so it's a shame, I know he can do better!

JLB always has rough nights on the first two to three shows of a tour.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: Peter Mc on December 21, 2016, 08:04:36 AM
JLB sang the Awake and SFAM stuff incredibly well (to perfection really) on the AFTR tour so no reason to think he will be unable to pull off I&W.  He may strain here and there but people, as usual, seem to be judging off poor quality youtube footage rather than going to a show and judging for yourself (not everyone obviously).  He did struggle a little vocally when I saw TA at London Palladium on opening night but it was opening night and the whole band (MM aside) seemed very nervous and static, he was not so bad that it detracted from the show though.  I'm sure they probably loosened up as the tour went on.

I'd love to know why someone like Bruce Dickinson who strains all over the place singing Iron Maiden songs live does not get anything like the same level of criticism.  James La Brie sings old DT songs much better than he sings old Maiden songs.  That's not to shit on Dickinson either as Maiden are an awesome live band and I love them, I just accept that he can't hit the high notes in Run To The Hills and live with it, the crowd usually drowns him out singing along anyway. 

I can't wait to see I&W live, it is my favourite album by any band ever, just perfection from the first note to the last, there's not one second of the album I don't adore.  For that reason I was happy to pay whatever they wanted!  Am hoping for ACOS as well but trying not to build my hopes up too much.  Would love 8V as well though as, for some reason, I missed that tour so have never seen it live.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: hefdaddy42 on December 21, 2016, 09:04:01 AM
FWIW, I saw the last show of the Astonishing tour, and JLB was on fire that night.  Great performance.

Stewie, your theory about why no cameras were allowed is wrong.  Had nothing to do with JLB's vocals. 
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: Stewie on December 21, 2016, 09:17:44 AM
It seems (based on what I've seen) that JLB sounds no real better or worse than other tours.

So picking this tour to do that crazy illogical thing you suggested is crazy illogical.

Really? From what little footage there is...he's reaaaally struggling bad. He's been straining really hard to hit the notes; basic pronunciation and articulation is completely absent, and often times it's hard to even make out what the lyrics are. Compared to footage from other tours, it is hands down the worst I've heard him in a long, long time. And the shows I've attended on this tour have been no different, so...don't know what else to tell you really.

I gotta ask... Stewie did you actually see TA live? Or are you basing your opinion off of a few random YouTube videos?

I guess you missed the last sentence of my post? Yeah, I saw TA live - three different times, actually. JLB sounded awful on all three. Again, I'm not trying to bash the guy - I love his vocals, and I know he has the potential to sound awesome. All I was saying earlier in the thread is that his current singing limitations don't allow for that kind of singing live anymore, especially night after night. I think the band should start taking that into account more, moving forward. As far as the no camera rule and me briefly wondering if it had anything to do with JLB's vocals, it probably didn't. I was just entertaining the possibility, however "ludicrous" it might be. But, as several others have pointed out since then, that is probably not the case. I have no problem with saying yeah, you guys are probably right, it was stupid logic. I was just wondering about it. That's all.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: mikeyd23 on December 21, 2016, 09:20:32 AM
I guess you missed the last sentence of my post? Yeah, I saw TA live - three different times, actuallyl. JLB sounded awful on all three. Again, I'm not trying to bash the guy - I love his vocals, and know he has the potential to sound awesome. All I was saying earlier in the thread is that his current singing limitations don't allow for that kind of singing live anymore, especially night after night. I think the band should start taking that into account more, moving forward. As far as the no camera rule and me briefly wondering if it had anything to do with JLB's vocals, it probably didn't. I was just entertaining the possibility, however "ludicrous" it might be. But, as several others have pointed out since then, that is probably not the case. I have no problem with saying yeah, you guys are probably right, it was stupid logic. I was just wondering about it. That's all.

I totally missed that part of your post, sorry! When I saw TA live, James was probably the MVP of the night. He was incredible, sorry the shows you hit didn't strike you the same.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: Stewie on December 21, 2016, 09:24:39 AM
It's alright! I know he has always had on and off nights, it just sucks that he had off nights the times I was trying to get my girlfriend and friends into the band lol. At the end I was saying "Guys, I promise he usually sounds WAY better than this!"

EDIT - again, everyone, can't stress enough that I mean no disrespect towards JLB - I love his singing, love all his work with DT, solo albums, etc. I'm just saying that maybe going forward the band should make adjustments for him, because I feel bad for him. It's not his fault; it's just the natural progression of aging and how it affects the vocal chords. He's still incredibly talented, and I love the sound of his voice. I just feel bad for him when he sounds that off and you can't understand the lyrics because of how much he is straining. And, as much as I LOVE The Astonishing, I think maybe for future records they might want to take into account how hard it is to pull off that kind of singing live, that's all. As far as singing older material goes, perhaps changing some of the lines to suit his current range, or playing the songs in a lower tuning, who knows?
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: cramx3 on December 21, 2016, 09:27:51 AM
Out of the 12 or so times I have seen DT, I have never walked away thinking anything negative about JLB's performance, usually it's talked about in a positive light.  Not that he's always been perfect, as I've heard some bad parts, but for the length of the concert, he's usually been great overall. 
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: Stewie on December 21, 2016, 09:31:53 AM
Out of the 12 or so times I have seen DT, I have never walked away thinking anything negative about JLB's performance, usually it's talked about in a positive light.  Not that he's always been perfect, as I've heard some bad parts, but for the length of the concert, he's usually been great overall.

I've seen DT 26 times now, and out of those 26, he has sounded freaking amazing probably 23 of them (he may have been a tad flat here and there, but overall KILLED it most of the show). Again, I'm talking about his performance on THIS tour - I'm NOT referring to anything else.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: cramx3 on December 21, 2016, 09:34:37 AM
Out of the 12 or so times I have seen DT, I have never walked away thinking anything negative about JLB's performance, usually it's talked about in a positive light.  Not that he's always been perfect, as I've heard some bad parts, but for the length of the concert, he's usually been great overall.

I've seen DT 26 times now, and out of those 26, he has sounded freaking amazing probably 23 of them (he may have been a tad flat here and there, but overall KILLED it most of the show). Again, I'm talking about his performance on THIS tour - I'm NOT referring to anything else.

Still feels odd to me, he sounded great twice on this tour for me.  I was actually amazed how well he pulled most of it off (and he did have rough spots).  Everyone has different experiences, but sounds like your got some bad luck or something then.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: Stewie on December 21, 2016, 09:37:12 AM
Out of the 12 or so times I have seen DT, I have never walked away thinking anything negative about JLB's performance, usually it's talked about in a positive light.  Not that he's always been perfect, as I've heard some bad parts, but for the length of the concert, he's usually been great overall.

I've seen DT 26 times now, and out of those 26, he has sounded freaking amazing probably 23 of them (he may have been a tad flat here and there, but overall KILLED it most of the show). Again, I'm talking about his performance on THIS tour - I'm NOT referring to anything else.

Still feels odd to me, he sounded great twice on this tour for me.  I was actually amazed how well he pulled most of it off (and he did have rough spots).  Everyone has different experiences, but sounds like your got some bad luck or something then.

Eh, who knows. I know he didn't just struggle during the three shows I attended - from what little footage there is from this tour, it sounds like overall it has been pretty consistently difficult for him to pull off. Now, I'm not saying he hasn't had some good nights on the tour too. If he sounded awesome at the shows you attended, I'm glad. Having said that, I'm pretty sure if the do release a DVD/Bluray of TA, it will have to be severely touched up.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: bosk1 on December 21, 2016, 09:44:39 AM
He sounded really good at the two shows I saw as well.  But there have been plenty of shows where people have reported him not sounding good as well.  Seems pretty consistent with most tours, actually.  Some nights he nails it; some nights he is off; some nights are a mixed bag. 
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: Stewie on December 21, 2016, 09:48:46 AM
Anyway, don't want to get the thread further off topic - I am very much looking forward to the I&W tour, despite my concerns for JLB. Hopefully it'll be awesome!
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: mikeyd23 on December 21, 2016, 10:07:32 AM
He sounded really good at the two shows I saw as well.  But there have been plenty of shows where people have reported him not sounding good as well.  Seems pretty consistent with most tours, actually.  Some nights he nails it; some nights he is off; some nights are a mixed bag.

This is definitely true of James, on most DT tours he has great nights and not so great nights. TA tour was more vocal-heavy than probably any other DT tour, so maybe the great nights from James seemed greater and the not so great nights seemed not so greater....
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: Dream Team on December 21, 2016, 10:35:18 AM
He was great in April but not as good in October for me. Sounded GREAT in the lower registers but incomprehensible on a lot of the higher notes.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: jsbru on December 21, 2016, 10:36:05 AM
He sounded pretty close to perfect in Chicago.  There wasn't a single point of the night where I thought, "hey, he really missed that part."
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: Tony From Long Island on December 21, 2016, 10:53:40 AM
He sounded really good at the two shows I saw as well.  But there have been plenty of shows where people have reported him not sounding good as well.  Seems pretty consistent with most tours, actually.  Some nights he nails it; some nights he is off; some nights are a mixed bag.

I'll say it again, I give JLB mountains of respect for his ability to even sing these songs at his age.   I can barely hit those notes now - and I am only 42.    Some days I can, some days I can't.    Long Live JLB!
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: lucasembarbosa on December 21, 2016, 06:11:13 PM
Just bought my ticket for the Portugal presentation (perhaps the last show of European leg?) and my concern is exactly this, that James' voice may sound worn and tired (as maybe the other guys as well, who knows) in the last shows... I know they are professional musicians and are pretty sure of what is their limit in terms of physical and mental capacity, but I think to myself if they're not going to burst themselves with this extensive touring thing.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: Architeuthis on December 25, 2016, 11:35:12 AM
I saw on FB this morning that they are going to announce North American tour dates soon.  :metal
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: cramx3 on December 25, 2016, 04:33:29 PM
I saw on FB this morning that they are going to announce North American tour dates soon.  :metal

 :metal

I believe it also said Asia dates
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: Bill on December 26, 2016, 03:20:27 PM
As a complete Christmas surprise, my wife bought me a ticket for Manchester in April. Paid way over the odds...just 8 rows from the front. Will be the first time I've seen DT, at the age of 56, discovered them a year ago. So excited!
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: gzarruk on December 26, 2016, 03:26:12 PM
As a complete Christmas surprise, my wife bought me a ticket for Manchester in April. Paid way over the odds...just 8 rows from the front. Will be the first time I've seen DT, at the age of 56, discovered them a year ago. So excited!

That's amazing! Congrats.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: Bill on December 27, 2016, 01:55:29 AM
As a complete Christmas surprise, my wife bought me a ticket for Manchester in April. Paid way over the odds...just 8 rows from the front. Will be the first time I've seen DT, at the age of 56, discovered them a year ago. So excited!

That's amazing! Congrats.

Thanks - I'm a lucky guy. I'm semi retired and will be living in Spain by then - flying back to the uk for the show.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: Bertielee on December 27, 2016, 07:43:20 AM
As a complete Christmas surprise, my wife bought me a ticket for Manchester in April. Paid way over the odds...just 8 rows from the front. Will be the first time I've seen DT, at the age of 56, discovered them a year ago. So excited!

That's amazing! Congrats.

Thanks - I'm a lucky guy. I'm semi retired and will be living in Spain by then - flying back to the uk for the show.

Fantastic! The firts DT show is always something especially special! ;)

B.Lee

Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: cramx3 on December 27, 2016, 04:22:23 PM
As a complete Christmas surprise, my wife bought me a ticket for Manchester in April. Paid way over the odds...just 8 rows from the front. Will be the first time I've seen DT, at the age of 56, discovered them a year ago. So excited!

That's amazing! Congrats.

Thanks - I'm a lucky guy. I'm semi retired and will be living in Spain by then - flying back to the uk for the show.

 :metal :metal :metal you will have a blast
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: TheAtliator on December 28, 2016, 09:53:17 PM
Just to clarify, they never played ANTR live with Mangini, only at the audition. Also, Wither was played for their 30th anniversary tour (with Mangini), which was, wait for it... in Europe  :lol

Oh, okay.  For some reason, I thought I remembered that they played ANTR at a couple of festival shows, but I could be misremembering. 


Hey, just curious, it's been killing me... How did they do the growl section in your mismemory?  :D
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: bosk1 on December 29, 2016, 08:12:34 AM
Just to clarify, they never played ANTR live with Mangini, only at the audition. Also, Wither was played for their 30th anniversary tour (with Mangini), which was, wait for it... in Europe  :lol

Oh, okay.  For some reason, I thought I remembered that they played ANTR at a couple of festival shows, but I could be misremembering. 


Hey, just curious, it's been killing me... How did they do the growl section in your mismemory?  :D

There isn't a "growl part" in the song.  But as to the Portnoy part you are referring to, James just sang it fairly normally, as I recall.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: ToT-147 on December 29, 2016, 08:48:49 AM
 :lol
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: gzarruk on December 29, 2016, 12:28:17 PM
Just to clarify, they never played ANTR live with Mangini, only at the audition. Also, Wither was played for their 30th anniversary tour (with Mangini), which was, wait for it... in Europe  :lol

Oh, okay.  For some reason, I thought I remembered that they played ANTR at a couple of festival shows, but I could be misremembering. 


Hey, just curious, it's been killing me... How did they do the growl section in your mismemory?  :D

There isn't a "growl part" in the song.  But as to the Portnoy part you are referring to, James just sang it fairly normally, as I recall.

This confirms that, in fact, it never happened  :biggrin:
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: TheAtliator on December 29, 2016, 03:46:29 PM
 :lol Yay!! Makes sense. He'd probably make it more like TDEN where he sings really gritty but on a note. And maybe they'd use a track along with it that's more growly.

Or yelly, or whatever you call it in ANTR. The song has the death growl is mixed in, quieter I think.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: cramx3 on December 29, 2016, 05:18:38 PM
If they played ANTR I am sure JLB would sing it and then most likely be criticized, I am fine with him singing it because that part was never great with MP and while I never thought it ruined the song or anything, if JLB sang it, I think it would probably be better and not with JLB growling or screaming it because that's not his strength IMO and hence the likely criticisms because I bet he would try to honor it by being more gritty.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: ToT-147 on December 29, 2016, 05:46:49 PM
I always imagine that if they play ANtR now that Portnoy's gone, it should be Peter Wildoer, as a special gest, the one singing that section.. Just for the few that don't know this: James knows the guy... and I think he could simply ask him to do that, at least for some shows -e.g. while playing in Sweden and near there-, not the entire tour obviously..








(https://youtu.be/zI4OKUWPthU?t=296)
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: Mosh on December 29, 2016, 07:34:29 PM
Backing track.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: Architeuthis on December 30, 2016, 11:38:14 AM
If they are gonna do a 15 min epic, I would prefer Illumination theory or TCOT over ANTR.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: ToT-147 on December 30, 2016, 02:13:24 PM
If they are gonna do a 15 min epic, I would prefer Illumination theory or TCOT over ANTR.

Oh, but we were just talking about future tours.. Bosk said no song from BC&SL will be played in this IW&Beyond tour..
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: romanticrocker on January 02, 2017, 08:18:15 AM
I'd be insulted if they don't do this tour in the USA I have been wanting and praying they do this live since I never knew they existed back when it came out so I need to hear it live
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: Schurftkut on January 02, 2017, 08:54:36 AM
 I've seen all the songs from I&W throughout the 3 concerts i attended. Since they haven't played ACOS since the tour before i knew about them i'm just really hoping for that one..
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: Stewie on January 02, 2017, 08:59:52 AM
I'd be insulted if they don't do this tour in the USA I have been wanting and praying they do this live since I never knew they existed back when it came out so I need to hear it live

They announced on Facebook the other day that there will be USA dates posted soon, so keep an eye on it!
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: KevShmev on January 02, 2017, 09:11:42 AM
I've seen all the songs from I&W throughout the 3 concerts i attended. Since they haven't played ACOS since the tour before i knew about them i'm just really hoping for that one..

I've seen eight DT concerts over the years and have yet to see them play Learning to Live. Meanwhile, I've seen A Change of Seasons, Space Dye Vest twice and Lie and Lifting Shadows Off a Dream thrice.  How's that for strange? :lol
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: MirrorMask on January 02, 2017, 09:17:42 AM
I've seen A Change of Seasons at my second DT concert ever and never since... and I got Images and Words in full 10 years ago. Still I won't miss this  ;D
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: Architeuthis on January 02, 2017, 10:33:28 AM
Saw them play ACOS on the TOT tour, it was awesome!  Have yet to see them play Octavarium in its entirety. The played part of it (the Razors Edge) on the SC progessive nation tour..
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: red barchetta on January 02, 2017, 09:31:26 PM
I'd be insulted if they don't do this tour in the USA I have been wanting and praying they do this live since I never knew they existed back when it came out so I need to hear it live

I feel the same about hoping they tour in Montreal since I had no interest of their last tour.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: Mladen on January 03, 2017, 04:41:18 AM
The three I&W songs that I've yet to see live are Another day, Take the time and Learning to live, so this could be the opportunity. Seems like there won't be any Eastern Europe dates, though, I think their popularity has dropped here and the crowds have been getting smaller over the years, so I don't have a good feeling about this.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: bosk1 on January 03, 2017, 09:28:42 AM
I always imagine that if they play ANtR now that Portnoy's gone, it should be Peter Wildoer, as a special gest, the one singing that section.. Just for the few that don't know this: James knows the guy... and I think he could simply ask him to do that, at least for some shows -e.g. while playing in Sweden and near there-, not the entire tour obviously..








(https://youtu.be/zI4OKUWPthU?t=296)

???  No.  I like Peter, but his screamy vocal style would not fit this song.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: ToT-147 on January 03, 2017, 12:14:57 PM
I always imagine that if they play ANtR now that Portnoy's gone, it should be Peter Wildoer, as a special gest, the one singing that section.. Just for the few that don't know this: James knows the guy... and I think he could simply ask him to do that, at least for some shows -e.g. while playing in Sweden and near there-, not the entire tour obviously..








(https://youtu.be/zI4OKUWPthU?t=296)

???  No.  I like Peter, but his screamy vocal style would not fit this song.

Yeah, I kind of I agree with that.. But I don't see James doing it.. And someone will have to.. A backing track would be a bad decision IMO..

Except they invite Portnoy just to sing that part.. Because that's very likely.. ;D
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: bosk1 on January 03, 2017, 12:17:12 PM
Why don't you see James doing it?  He sang it when they played it after Portnoy left.  There is no reason why he wouldn't if they ever played the song again (which I hope they eventually do, because it slays).
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: cramx3 on January 03, 2017, 12:21:18 PM
Yea, JLB singing that part will be fine IMO.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: gzarruk on January 03, 2017, 12:41:54 PM
Why don't you see James doing it?  He sang it when they played it after Portnoy left.  There is no reason why he wouldn't if they ever played the song again (which I hope they eventually do, because it slays).

You mean at the drummer audition? We never got to see footage of that part from the auditions. I agree that James could do it (even better) with no problem.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: bosk1 on January 03, 2017, 01:11:07 PM
Why don't you see James doing it?  He sang it when they played it after Portnoy left.  There is no reason why he wouldn't if they ever played the song again (which I hope they eventually do, because it slays).

You mean at the drummer audition? We never got to see footage of that part from the auditions. I agree that James could do it (even better) with no problem.

No.  Didn't they play it at the first couple of festival shows after Mangini joined?  Or am I thinking of TCOT?
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: cramx3 on January 03, 2017, 01:37:59 PM
Why don't you see James doing it?  He sang it when they played it after Portnoy left.  There is no reason why he wouldn't if they ever played the song again (which I hope they eventually do, because it slays).

You mean at the drummer audition? We never got to see footage of that part from the auditions. I agree that James could do it (even better) with no problem.

No.  Didn't they play it at the first couple of festival shows after Mangini joined?  Or am I thinking of TCOT?

I think you are thinking TCOT.  I don't recall ANTR ever being played live by MM. 

But you also may be confusing the MP vocal lines from say TSF that were (to my limited knowledge and judgement from the BtFW) seemingly dubbed and sung by JP.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: gzarruk on January 03, 2017, 02:17:43 PM
Why don't you see James doing it?  He sang it when they played it after Portnoy left.  There is no reason why he wouldn't if they ever played the song again (which I hope they eventually do, because it slays).

You mean at the drummer audition? We never got to see footage of that part from the auditions. I agree that James could do it (even better) with no problem.

No.  Didn't they play it at the first couple of festival shows after Mangini joined?  Or am I thinking of TCOT?

You're thinking of TCOT  :lol https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h8rmptU24e4

The only BC&SL songs they've played live since Mangini joined are TCOT, TSF and Wither.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: TheCountOfNYC on January 03, 2017, 06:53:37 PM
Why don't you see James doing it?  He sang it when they played it after Portnoy left.  There is no reason why he wouldn't if they ever played the song again (which I hope they eventually do, because it slays).

You mean at the drummer audition? We never got to see footage of that part from the auditions. I agree that James could do it (even better) with no problem.

No.  Didn't they play it at the first couple of festival shows after Mangini joined?  Or am I thinking of TCOT?

You're thinking of TCOT  :lol https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h8rmptU24e4

The only BC&SL songs they've played live since Mangini joined are TCOT, TSF and Wither.

Oh man I can't believe they only played half of the album.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: DarkLord_Lalinc on January 03, 2017, 07:32:53 PM
This is the only arrangement there is, guys.

10/10 would watch again

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WTn4U-0kT4I
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: Adami on January 03, 2017, 07:37:34 PM
This is the only arrangement there is, guys.

10/10 would watch again

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WTn4U-0kT4I

Oh man, I forgot how bad that was. Portnoy really needs to never growl like that.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: DragonAttack on January 04, 2017, 01:03:04 PM
Well, I went through all the posts and hints before offering a setlist that has elements that could work:

This Is The Life
(other 'monster' tracks could be TDEN, Forsaken, or 'Enemies' part TWO….but I doubt it)
As I Am
These Walls or I Walk Beside You
Constant Motion
Burning My Soul/Hell's Kitchen/Burning My Soul
The Bigger Picture

Pull Me Under
Another Day
Take The Time
Surrounded
Metropolis

intermission……yes, thinking way outside of the box

Under A Glass Moon
Wait For Sleep
Learning To Live/The Crimson Sunset

(tape…'X aspect' bagpipes)
A New Beginning
The Enemy Inside
Through My Words/Fatal Tragedy
the final two segments can alternate as ending the 'concert proper' and the encore

Saviour In The Square intro/Our New World
Solitary Shell/About To Crash/Grand Finale

Breaking All Illusions
The Razor's Edge

(or 'A Change of Seasons' 'Big Medley' ;))
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: bosk1 on January 04, 2017, 01:16:03 PM
Wow, you guys are STILL trying to figure that out?  :lol

Okay, well, I'll say this, if it wasn't clear already:
-Some of The Astonishing will be played.  It isn't a lot.  But considering that it is their newest album, that should not be a surprise.  I honestly can't remember which tracks. 
-Of the two tracks from DT12 that have not been played thus far, one of them will be played.  Honestly, at this point, I'd tell you which one.  But I don't remember.  :lol

Also, the FII track is sorry, I won't tell you
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: kingshmegland on January 04, 2017, 01:22:43 PM
 :lol
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: hefdaddy42 on January 04, 2017, 01:53:29 PM
JLB totally wouldn't divulge any info on the setlist to me.  He treated it like it was a state secret  :lol

He was totally cool about it, nicest guy in the world, he just wouldn't tell me anything.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: kingshmegland on January 04, 2017, 01:56:41 PM
you should have Hefnotoad him.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: hefdaddy42 on January 04, 2017, 01:57:43 PM
you should have Hefnotoad him.
Too many civilians around.

:hefnotoad:
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: MirrorMask on January 04, 2017, 02:14:12 PM
JLB totally wouldn't divulge any info on the setlist to me.  He treated it like it was a state secret  :lol

He was totally cool about it, nicest guy in the world, he just wouldn't tell me anything.

He was right. The setlist of a show is the equivalent of reading the fully synopsis on Wikipedia of a movie. It tells you everything that happens but just as a cold, clinical fact, without the emotion and excitement of actually seeing the whole thing.

Honestly, while it is culturally accepted that movie spoilers are a bad thing, I long for the time that we finally recognize that also concert spoilers are something to worry about.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: kingshmegland on January 04, 2017, 02:41:59 PM
You don't have to worry about spoilers if you have self control.  I do not have self control.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: rumborak on January 04, 2017, 02:50:20 PM
I can only speak for myself, but setlist spoilers are nowhere near movie spoilers. In fact, to me setlist spoilers aren't spoilers at all. It's like being handed the evening program when you walk into a classical concert.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: MirrorMask on January 04, 2017, 02:57:15 PM
You don't have to worry about spoilers if you have self control.  I do not have self control.

I do have self control. I'm actually paranoid about it  ;D when Iron Maiden started touring last year I stopped checking ANY of their videos on YouTube (to avoid suggestions, that are always recent), disabled notifications on FB groups about them, and stayed away from the topic about it on this forum.

This time around it will be a lot easier, just a few days of the tour and I'll already be seeing them in Milan so I'll just have to avoid this thread and the Concerts section for a week.

I can only speak for myself, but setlist spoilers are nowhere near movie spoilers. In fact, to me setlist spoilers aren't spoilers at all. It's like being handed the evening program when you walk into a classical concert.

I disagree speaking for myself as well, while I understand the comparison, to me a concert it's not a Winamp playlist performed by the actual musicians. It's a show, a performance, a presentation, it's the whole excitement and adrenaline rush of enjoying live music. I can forget about time (hard to forget that only 7 songs are missing when you know the setlist), I can hope for my favorite song to be played, I can listen in anticipation to the funny or witty introduction the singer is doing trying to figure out which song it is, and so on.

This especially in metal, and more specific with Dream Theater that have an "anything goes" attitude to setlists, so potentially any song could be played. It's not a boyband concert where everyone just want to hear the hits, and the hits is what they get.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: DragonAttack on January 04, 2017, 03:01:10 PM
Figure out the possible setlist?  Heck, no, though I know I nailed eight of the songs. ;)

A semi wish list of my own, that keeps things moving, and is under 3 hours.  Along with the intermission, as something different.  After all, they're playing I&W in its entirety.  No one said they had to play it without a break.  I could see them alternating it before/after the intermission.  Would keep things somewhat 'fresh' each night.

'The Glass Prison' could be the first tune after the LP.  For all we know, 'Bombay Vandaloo' can make an appearance.  I DO know that Susan Boyle's 'I Dreamed A Dream' won't be the taped intro (or will it?)
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: bosk1 on January 04, 2017, 03:05:39 PM
There is an instrumental.  It is not Bombay Vandaloo.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: cramx3 on January 04, 2017, 03:09:37 PM
I've always had a hard time controlling myself to avoid the setlist spoilers, but it depends on the band.  If it's one of my favorite bands, I typically don't want to know because the excitement of "what are they going to play next" is a legit awesome feeling when you hear the first chord and OMG they are playing this!  However, for bands I am not totally into I like to look at the set so I can get to listen to the songs before the show and have a feel for the band and the music presented towards me.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: MirrorMask on January 04, 2017, 03:09:56 PM
Bosk, just for curiosity, what part are you most excited about? seeing the whole Images and Words album, or the rest of the songs that make up the "and beyond" part? of course this is personal because it depends on how much you love i&W, how many songs off it you've already heard live etc but generally speaking, what do you think it's the not-to-miss part of the show, I&W or the rest?
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: rumborak on January 04, 2017, 03:19:07 PM
There is an instrumental.  It is not Bombay Vandaloo.

gnos sdrawkcab ehT

Calling it right now.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: hefdaddy42 on January 04, 2017, 03:26:14 PM
*holds out for Moon Bubbles*
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: goo-goo on January 04, 2017, 04:10:26 PM
There is an instrumental.  It is not Bombay Vandaloo.

Would like to see Mangini playing Stream of Consciousness. I think there's a lot of room for changes in that song.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: ToT-147 on January 04, 2017, 04:58:54 PM
There is an instrumental.

Excellent news!..


Must be HK or SoC.... :azn:

Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: Adami on January 04, 2017, 05:01:41 PM
There is an instrumental.  It is not Bombay Vandaloo.

Would like to see Mangini playing Stream of Consciousness. I think there's a lot of room for changes in that song.

As long as he doesn't change my favorite fill.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: rumborak on January 04, 2017, 05:02:40 PM
*holds out for Moon Bubbles*

It will never happen, but man would love to hear Black Ice live.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: bosk1 on January 04, 2017, 05:18:49 PM
Bosk, just for curiosity, what part are you most excited about? seeing the whole Images and Words album, or the rest of the songs that make up the "and beyond" part? of course this is personal because it depends on how much you love i&W, how many songs off it you've already heard live etc but generally speaking, what do you think it's the not-to-miss part of the show, I&W or the rest?
For me, I am more excited about the "beyond" part of the set list.  Specifically, I am excited about the DT12 song and the encore--neither of which have ever been played at a show I have attended.  The encore was actually supposed to have been played at a show I attended in the past, but had to be cut at the last minute.

Believe it or not, Images doesn't really excited me all that much.  I feel like I've seen the definitive version of Pull Me Under from the recent Reno show (mosh pit included).  I've seen great versions of Metropolis and Wait for Sleep.  I can't imagine a better version of Learning To Live than the one on LSFNY, although I would still enjoy seeing it.  And as much as I love James, I'm not confident they can pull off good versions of TTT or Another Day (and I don't even like Another Day anyway).  I mean, I'm not knocking them playing I&W.  Just saying that, for my tastes, it doesn't excite me as much as the other stuff.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: TheAtliator on January 04, 2017, 05:50:24 PM
The encore was actually supposed to have been played at a show I attended in the past, but had to be cut at the last minute.

Didn't this happen with A Change of Seasons at some point?
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: TheAtliator on January 04, 2017, 06:29:21 PM
Yea.... Pretty sure that happened in 2004, and in San Fransisco (Near where Bosk lives)  :biggrin:
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: Stewie on January 04, 2017, 07:40:35 PM
And as much as I love James, I'm not confident they can pull off good versions of TTT or Another Day (and I don't even like Another Day anyway)

Not without altering some of the really high parts, at least.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: kingshmegland on January 04, 2017, 07:54:02 PM
I've always been of the mind that I know singers can't hit those notes so I'm ok that they,might drop tune.  I want to see a few old songs.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: Mosh on January 04, 2017, 08:18:33 PM
Assuming this comes to Denver, I'll be excited for I&W. It's pretty unique from other bands who do other full album tours because I've only heard one song from I&W live. With most other bands they already play a handful of songs from their most well known album at every show.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: gzarruk on January 04, 2017, 08:52:10 PM
The encore was actually supposed to have been played at a show I attended in the past, but had to be cut at the last minute.

Didn't this happen with A Change of Seasons at some point?

If that's the case, that would be amazing! Also, it fits the whole IAW era celebration and all that.

Also, Bosk, we're already less than a month away from the start of the tour, are you going to drop some more info on the following days/weeks, and/or even reveal a couple songs? (with a huge SPOILER mark before)  :biggrin:
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: red barchetta on January 04, 2017, 09:28:55 PM
Wow, you guys are STILL trying to figure that out?  :lol

Okay, well, I'll say this, if it wasn't clear already:
-Some of The Astonishing will be played.  It isn't a lot.  But considering that it is their newest album, that should not be a surprise.  I honestly can't remember which tracks. 
-Of the two tracks from DT12 that have not been played thus far, one of them will be played.  Honestly, at this point, I'd tell you which one.  But I don't remember.  :lol

Also, the FII track is sorry, I won't tell you.

If you know the setlist preciselly (which I doubt) just tell us what it will be. It's not a big secret anyway. After a couple of shows, we will have a perfect idea of what we will get, starting with the european shows and then wait a couple of shows to see the changes for the north american tour. That's pretty much how it goes. No offence Bosk, just assuming that you don't necessaraly have the exact songs already chosen and for sure to be played.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: red barchetta on January 04, 2017, 09:32:11 PM
I can only speak for myself, but setlist spoilers are nowhere near movie spoilers. In fact, to me setlist spoilers aren't spoilers at all. It's like being handed the evening program when you walk into a classical concert.

 :tup
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: SystematicThought on January 04, 2017, 09:34:36 PM
As long as he doesn't change my favorite fill.
Which is?
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: red barchetta on January 04, 2017, 09:39:41 PM
I do like to know the setlist. But for weeks I avoid listening to the band so I will be starving for it. And for today's cost of an evening to a concert, I want to have a pretty good idea of what's in it. That's why I follow the band concerts on setlist.com
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: Adami on January 04, 2017, 09:49:42 PM
As long as he doesn't change my favorite fill.
Which is?

6:30
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: jsbru on January 04, 2017, 10:02:08 PM
I'm calling it now, Hell's Kitchen is the instrumental.  ACOS is the encore.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: erwinrafael on January 04, 2017, 11:39:56 PM
There is an instrumental.  It is not Bombay Vandaloo.

Nice, so my setlist prediction is still on track.  :lol

Given that I am sticking to my guess that the opening is The Great Debate based on bosk's clues, that there is at least one FII song, either StR or TBP would be played, at least 3 Astonishing songs, here is the set I came up with:

Set 1:
The Great Debate (the unexpected opener)
The Gift of Music
The Root of all Evil (crowd pleaser)
Chosen
Surrender to Reason (the song not played before)
A New Beginning
Hell's Kitchen/Lines in the Sand (the first monster track)
Our New World

Set 2:
Pull Me Under
Another Day
Take the Time
Surrounded
Metropolis Pt. 1
Under a Glass Moon
Wait for Sleep
Learning to Live

Encore:
A Change of Seasons (the second monster track)

18 songs. around 2 and a half hours just like BTFW.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: Peter Mc on January 05, 2017, 06:56:32 AM
I thought there were 3 tracks from DT12 that were not played, 3 in a row in fact, The Bigger Picture, Behind The Veil and Surrender to Reason.  I think TBP and BTV are two standout easily accessible tracks on DT12 so can never understand why they weren't played.  Would love to hear both of them before STR, although that is still a decent song.  Still got my fingers crossed for ACOS and getting more excited based on what has been said recently.  I notice MP's forum has banned all discussion of Dream Theater now after people were discussing DT playing ACOS and whether it was ok to play it in MP's absence taking into account the subject matter.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: mikeyd23 on January 05, 2017, 06:57:41 AM
As long as he doesn't change my favorite fill.
Which is?

6:30

Could it be any other fill? As soon as you said that, it was the first one I thought of  :lol
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: rumborak on January 05, 2017, 07:04:03 AM
I've always been of the mind that I know singers can't hit those notes so I'm ok that they,might drop tune.  I want to see a few old songs.

Has anyone ever checked whether they already do this? I certainly don't have perfect pitch, so I wouldn't be able to tell if they already dropped a song or two by a full note.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: BlobVanDam on January 05, 2017, 07:08:36 AM
I've always been of the mind that I know singers can't hit those notes so I'm ok that they,might drop tune.  I want to see a few old songs.

Has anyone ever checked whether they already do this? I certainly don't have perfect pitch, so I wouldn't be able to tell if they already dropped a song or two by a full note.

DT? Nope.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: kingshmegland on January 05, 2017, 07:18:44 AM
No they haven't but I'd be OK with it.  Father Time always wins and I go in knowing that the singers jut can't do what they did in their 20's.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: erwinrafael on January 05, 2017, 07:25:49 AM
I thought there were 3 tracks from DT12 that were not played, 3 in a row in fact, The Bigger Picture, Behind The Veil and Surrender to Reason.  I think TBP and BTV are two standout easily accessible tracks on DT12 so can never understand why they weren't played.  Would love to hear both of them before STR, although that is still a decent song.  Still got my fingers crossed for ACOS and getting more excited based on what has been said recently.  I notice MP's forum has banned all discussion of Dream Theater now after people were discussing DT playing ACOS and whether it was ok to play it in MP's absence taking into account the subject matter.

BTV has been played in the 30th anniversary shows.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: hefdaddy42 on January 05, 2017, 07:55:44 AM
If you know the setlist preciselly (which I doubt) just tell us what it will be. It's not a big secret anyway.
Don't doubt it.  Getting it straight from JP himself is a pretty good sign.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: bosk1 on January 05, 2017, 08:13:24 AM
Also, Bosk, we're already less than a month away from the start of the tour, are you going to drop some more info on the following days/weeks, and/or even reveal a couple songs? (with a huge SPOILER mark before)  :biggrin:

Yes.

If you know the setlist preciselly (which I doubt) just tell us what it will be. It's not a big secret anyway.

I was shown the exact, entire set list.  So, from that perspective, I do know exactly what will be played, as well as the song order (assuming they do not alter the set list).  That said, as I have already mentioned, I did not write it down and do not remember all of it.  And I didn't write it down because, first off, it would have been tacky, given the context of JP being excited about it and offering to let me in on the big "secret" that, at the time, they had just decided only a few days before.  And second, I just didn't want to.  We'll all know the specifics sooner or later.  There really isn't any need for me to have written down all the specifics.  I remember most of it, but not all.  So I couldn't tell you the entire set list even if I wanted to. 

That said, I also don't want to.  Not that I want to deliberately hide things from you guys.  But it was something that was shared with me in confidence.  JP was truly excited to let me in on it.  And he gave me pretty wide latitude to share some things to generate excitement and let you guys in on it as well.  But even though he didn't specifically say not to share the entire set list, he didn't need to--it is pretty self-explanatory that, while he said I could share some things to generate excitement, that would not include posting the entire set list from start to finish.  That just isn't going to happen, for what should be obvious reasons.  I'm glad almost everybody seems to understand that.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: rumborak on January 05, 2017, 08:18:21 AM
No they haven't but I'd be OK with it.  Father Time always wins and I go in knowing that the singers jut can't do what they did in their 20's.

I for sure would be fine with it. A step down barely makes any difference in terms of the overall music, but if it means James not struggling, I'm all for it.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: bosk1 on January 05, 2017, 08:25:55 AM
It really depends on the song.  I have heard plenty of bands tune down, and it sounds fine.  Others, not so much.  I can even think of an example of one show where some songs in the same show sounded fine while others sounded off.  Tesla starting downtuning a lot of their songs a few years back to compensate for Jeff Keith losing some of his range.  When I saw them a few years back, a friend pointed out during the show that they were tuning down on some songs.  I hadn't even noticed.  But then they got to Edison's Medicine, and it sounded horrible.  Just muddy and plodding, and tuning it down somehow just sucked all the energy and life from it.  I couldn't tell you sonically why it works for some songs and not others.  But it really can have a bad effect on some songs.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: rumborak on January 05, 2017, 08:29:33 AM
It might depend on how you go about the downtuning. If you actually tune all the strings down and then play the regular frets on the strings, that's probably fine. But if you instead use a regularly tuned guitar and for example instead of a regular Em (which is mostly open strings) instead play a bar Dm on the 5th fret, that will majorly affect the sound.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: nikatapi on January 05, 2017, 11:55:29 AM
It might depend on how you go about the downtuning. If you actually tune all the strings down and then play the regular frets on the strings, that's probably fine. But if you instead use a regularly tuned guitar and for example instead of a regular Em (which is mostly open strings) instead play a bar Dm on the 5th fret, that will majorly affect the sound.

I think downtuning the guitar is a given in such cases, otherwise the musicians would have to relearn all the material in a different way.
It's actually quite admirable that DT still keep the original tuning, most of the other bands of the same era have downtuned, Fates Warning for example have been dropping their tuning live, and it sounds pretty great. Iron Maiden also play a step lower live, and it also sounds fine.

On the other hand, personally i think it would sound weird for DT, since i've been used to the original version being played live and i think it would confuse my ears a little bit.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: Jinx on January 05, 2017, 12:52:05 PM
Bosk can you say whether this will be one static setlist throughout? Or a couple that can be rotated (like on the ADTOE tour)
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: red barchetta on January 05, 2017, 12:52:26 PM
I think that it's good if they downtune some songs.  I prefer that than seeing JLB struggle and sounding badly while trying to reach a high note.  And thank you Bosk for the explanation about the setlist.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: bosk1 on January 05, 2017, 01:09:35 PM
Bosk can you say whether this will be one static setlist throughout? Or a couple that can be rotated (like on the ADTOE tour)
At least the way they had it planned, it is just a single set list.  Not that that couldn't change, but I don't think it will. 

I think that it's good if they downtune some songs.  I prefer that than seeing JLB struggle and sounding badly while trying to reach a high note.  And thank you Bosk for the explanation about the setlist.
Honestly, I don't see it happening unless James were to ask for them to do it.

No problem on the explanation.  More to follow.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: MirrorMask on January 05, 2017, 02:27:25 PM
Anyway, I'm stoked that to you the Images and Words part is not even the best one  :metal
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: Ben_Jamin on January 05, 2017, 02:58:15 PM
I can't wait for the tour without an anniversary set or theme. Then we get a full on unknown of what they would play. I mean, it's cool they're doing this, but once the new album is done I hope that tour will be the one to have a full on random setlist.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: onnet5 on January 06, 2017, 05:02:35 AM
Got my tickets through - they say "Plus Special Guests" is this just a mistake/generic thing put on the ticket?

(http://i.imgur.com/lo9TiQJ.jpg)
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: MirrorMask on January 06, 2017, 05:07:21 AM
I would assume so.

Anyway, we've all heard the album a gazillion times that I was giving for granted how much it was overplayed in the setlists.

I've realized that I don't hear Pull Me Under and Surrounded since 2012, Metropolis since 2009, and the rest since 2007. So the whole album played live will actually be a rarity in my recent DT concerts history!
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: Laughingplace56 on January 06, 2017, 03:23:56 PM
Has Anyone considered the possibility of them opening with the I&W set, but play the album in REVERSE? If they're still in the WWRD mindset, they did that with the R40 tour. They played their discography backwards (new to old). That'd certainly be a new opener for them. And before someone says it, the reoccurrence of the WFS Melody in LTL does not mean they have to be played in the normal order. Other than that, there is no relation between the two songs.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: bosk1 on January 06, 2017, 04:29:52 PM
No, they aren't doing that.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: Adami on January 06, 2017, 04:32:15 PM
Is there any possibility that Dream Theater will be playing live somewhere off stage, or behind the stage, while an elaborate puppet show is presented on stage, miming the instruments?

If not, they should consider it.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: cramx3 on January 06, 2017, 04:39:34 PM
Is there any possibility that Dream Theater will be playing live somewhere off stage, or behind the stage, while an elaborate puppet show is presented on stage, miming the instruments?

If not, they should consider it.

Explain why  :lol  Avenged Sevenfold should do that though
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: Adami on January 06, 2017, 06:05:44 PM
I have no logical explanation.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: cramx3 on January 06, 2017, 06:23:48 PM
Good enough for me
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: MirrorMask on January 07, 2017, 04:46:58 AM
The only order change that would make sense in I&W would be to have Metropolis as the opener. Playing it in reverse would be a terrible flow, to start up with Learning to Live and then have Wait for Sleep is just.... no.

Slightly off-topic, Metallica did that twice. They played the black album in reverse, and it made somehow sense to have the biggest hits like Sad But True and Enter Sandman at the end, but they played also Ride the Lightning in reverse, which was very weird 'cause Fight Fire with Fire is the perfect opener and The Call of Ktulu is the perfect closer.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: Mosh on January 07, 2017, 10:39:18 AM
I don't think I&W as it is flows all that well live.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: ToT-147 on January 07, 2017, 03:09:12 PM
I don't think I&W as it is flows all that well live.

Probably if they just skip WfS it would flow a lot better.. :neverusethis:
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: DarkLord_Lalinc on January 07, 2017, 03:50:05 PM
I don't think I&W as it is flows all that well live.
Have you seen it played that way?
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: TAC on January 07, 2017, 03:51:12 PM
Pretty sure I&W played in ANY order flows well live!
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: craig1928 on January 07, 2017, 06:20:47 PM
I think it'd be a fatal tragedy to tell everyone what the opener is
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: Setlist Scotty on January 07, 2017, 08:14:06 PM
The only order change that would make sense in I&W would be to have Metropolis as the opener.
Actually, that would make perfect sense since Metropolis was originally planned to be the opening song to IaW, and PMU the opening track to "side 2". But the higher ups wanted PMU to be the opening track and Metropolis opening "side 2". They also wanted IaW to be called "Dream Theater" which the band didn't want. So they came up with the compromise of leaving the album title as the band wanted it, but having PMU open the album.

Personally, I prefer Metropolis as the opening track to the album and to a live show, so I'd be perfectly happy if they did that. But it won't happen.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: TAC on January 07, 2017, 08:18:39 PM

Actually, that would make perfect sense since Metropolis was originally planned to be the opening song to IaW, and PMU the opening track to "side 2". But the higher ups wanted PMU to be the opening track and Metropolis opening "side 2". They also wanted IaW to be called "Dream Theater" which the band didn't want. So they came up with the compromise of leaving the album title as the band wanted it, but having PMU open the album.
That's interesting.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: ToT-147 on January 07, 2017, 09:16:45 PM

Actually, that would make perfect sense since Metropolis was originally planned to be the opening song to IaW, and PMU the opening track to "side 2". But the higher ups wanted PMU to be the opening track and Metropolis opening "side 2". They also wanted IaW to be called "Dream Theater" which the band didn't want. So they came up with the compromise of leaving the album title as the band wanted it, but having PMU open the album.
That's interesting.

Wow, didn't know that..
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: Mosh on January 07, 2017, 09:30:27 PM
I don't think I&W as it is flows all that well live.
Have you seen it played that way?
Well there's the fan club CD from when they played it in 2008 or whatever. I agree with those saying that Metropolis is a better opener. Metropolis in the middle is the major thing for me, although I'm not sure where I'd have Pull Me Under or Under a Glass Moon.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: IDontNotDoThings on January 07, 2017, 09:40:41 PM
The only order change that would make sense in I&W would be to have Metropolis as the opener.
Actually, that would make perfect sense since Metropolis was originally planned to be the opening song to IaW, and PMU the opening track to "side 2". But the higher ups wanted PMU to be the opening track and Metropolis opening "side 2". They also wanted IaW to be called "Dream Theater" which the band didn't want. So they came up with the compromise of leaving the album title as the band wanted it, but having PMU open the album.

Personally, I prefer Metropolis as the opening track to the album and to a live show, so I'd be perfectly happy if they did that. But it won't happen.

Having to transition from Metropolis to Another Day would be quite jarring.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: Setlist Scotty on January 07, 2017, 09:57:22 PM
Having to transition from Metropolis to Another Day would be quite jarring.
Moreso than Another Day following the abrupt ending of PMU? I disagree. Just did a playlist in iTunes swapping the two tracks, and honestly I think Metropolis is a much better lead into Another Day. Even in the live setting, I'd wager it would be better. But different strokes for different folks.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: Mosh on January 07, 2017, 11:10:42 PM
Having to transition from Metropolis to Another Day would be quite jarring.
Moreso than Another Day following the abrupt ending of PMU? I disagree. Just did a playlist in iTunes swapping the two tracks, and honestly I think Metropolis is a much better lead into Another Day. Even in the live setting, I'd wager it would be better. But different strokes for different folks.
Agreed. It's a nice come down after the craziness of Metropolis. With Under a Glass Moon it just feels like they're kicking it up a notch. It's pretty cool on the album but maybe too exhausting live.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: MirrorMask on January 08, 2017, 04:01:33 AM
I never knew that Metropolis was meant to be the album opener, nor that the label wanted them to have a self-titled 20+ years before it actually happened. You're a living DT wiki Scotty  :hefdaddy
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: Mladen on January 08, 2017, 04:20:46 AM
As far as I'm concerned, if an album flows well as you listen to it at home, it will flow just as well if you hear it live. There's no difference.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: KevShmev on January 08, 2017, 07:36:10 AM
Perhaps, but as amazing and awesome as I&W is, I would never put it on a list of albums with amazing flow. It's more or less an album that is a collection of great songs, rather than an album that comes off as really having a specific flow, IMO, even if many of us might be used to the flow by now because of many listens.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: MirrorMask on January 08, 2017, 07:38:20 AM
It's just 8 songs and, to make a grand simplification, three songs are "slow". There aren't many ways to rearrange 3 "normal" songs, 2 "epic" songs and 3 "slow" songs.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: erwinrafael on January 08, 2017, 07:50:17 AM
I&W flows quite well. It's like a short concert

Rocking opener
Ballad after high energy
Upbeat long song
Slow things down again
EPIC
Fun song after the epicnesss
Short ballad leading to the
EPIC Closer.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: BlobVanDam on January 08, 2017, 07:53:44 AM
I've never had a problem with the flow of IaW.
Regardless, when you're playing a whole album live, it's expected to be in album order. People know it in album order, so they'll anticipate it in album order. If you break that expectation, people will be confused and possibly disappointed by not hearing the desired song next, even if you're getting to it later.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: Evai on January 08, 2017, 09:31:41 AM
Yeah... Once an album is released, the order of the songs is part of the musical journey. Even if the songs aren't technically related. Changing the order of IaW is akin to changing the order of TA or Scenes. It wouldn't be the album anymore.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: Mosh on January 08, 2017, 11:58:40 AM
I've never had a problem with the flow of IaW.
Regardless, when you're playing a whole album live, it's expected to be in album order. People know it in album order, so they'll anticipate it in album order. If you break that expectation, people will be confused and possibly disappointed by not hearing the desired song next, even if you're getting to it later.
Yes, definitely don't think they should mess with the order. But I also think it's not comparable to Scenes or TA in that you could change the order without ruining the flow of the album. You might even improve it.

As far as I'm concerned, if an album flows well as you listen to it at home, it will flow just as well if you hear it live. There's no difference.
I disagree. Sequencing an album and putting together a live setlist are two different things. With an album you're looking at variables like putting more accessible songs toward the beginning, creating a certain atmosphere with the order of songs, having the right variation of dynamics/tempos. With a live setlist, much more emphasis is placed on maintaining the energy level of a live show. You also run into logistical things like which songs are smoothest to transition to. Back when Portnoy was writing the setlists he would place songs with the same alternate tunings together so JP would have one less guitar change. Sometimes a song is perfect to open the album but not as effective as an album opener. For an example of this, see the ADTOE tour when they opened with BITS and not Angels.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: Tony From Long Island on January 09, 2017, 12:30:32 PM
I'm looking forward to seeing New York dates.   Hopefully they will play the Paramount again.    It will be my first DT show since I think 1999 (when Big Wreck opened).     However, I did see them enough times in the 90's to last a lifetime!~
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: LudwigVan on January 09, 2017, 12:34:09 PM
I'm looking forward to seeing New York dates.   Hopefully they will play the Paramount again.    It will be my first DT show since I think 1999 (when Big Wreck opened).     However, I did see them enough times in the 90's to last a lifetime!~

The Paramount would be nice.  Was there for their last appearance there a few years back.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: cramx3 on January 09, 2017, 12:46:14 PM
I'm looking forward to seeing New York dates.   Hopefully they will play the Paramount again.    It will be my first DT show since I think 1999 (when Big Wreck opened).     However, I did see them enough times in the 90's to last a lifetime!~

I really like the Beacon Theater for sound, but I enjoyed seeing them at Hammerstein Ballroom as well.  Mostly because Hammerstein has a general admission floor which I prefer since I like to stand and rock out.  Of course I would take Radio City again as well, but I don't see that happening for this tour.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: Tony From Long Island on January 09, 2017, 12:49:36 PM
Well, I only prefer the paramount for convenience.  I live in Suffolk County.   I've only seen it on TV.    Haven't been there.     But I used to play at two places near it!
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: cramx3 on January 09, 2017, 01:18:46 PM
Well, I only prefer the paramount for convenience.  I live in Suffolk County.   I've only seen it on TV.    Haven't been there.     But I used to play at two places near it!

True, yea Paramount is a bit too far out in LI for me although if it were a weekend or something then I could make it work.  But if we are really talking convenience, I would love to see DT comes to the Count Basie Theater in Red Bank NJ again.  That venue is actually perfect size for them IMO. 
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: Tony From Long Island on January 09, 2017, 01:26:13 PM
if I think off the top of my head, here are the places I have seen DT:

Sparks!!    Total dump!!  Loved it!!
Malibu
Mulcahys
The Manhattan Center   (Damn the Machine opened - great album!)
Roseland?   (Did I see them at roseland?)
Somewhere in Old Bridge NJ  (with Big Wreck)

I know I'm forgetting something
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: cramx3 on January 09, 2017, 02:14:19 PM
If you saw them in Old Bridge than that was probably the Birch Hill, RIP.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: Tony From Long Island on January 09, 2017, 02:43:41 PM
Yup!  That was it!     I think I saw them with Big Wreck twice, maybe it was two consecutive nights
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: Jinx on January 12, 2017, 08:16:21 AM
I think it'd be a fatal tragedy to tell everyone what the opener is

You can imagine the lights go out, False Awakening Suite plays, curtain raises...

"Alone at night, I feel so strange..."

 :yarr
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: Mebert78 on January 12, 2017, 10:34:08 AM
Well, I only prefer the paramount for convenience.  I live in Suffolk County.

Me too! 

On related note, I was wondering if the DT guys would consider inviting Kevin Moore to make an appearance at the I&W show in NY.  Who knows, Kevin might feel differently about appearing now that Portnoy is gone.  If that happened, it would be the bomb diggity.     
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: mikemangioy on January 12, 2017, 10:53:55 AM
I think it'd be a fatal tragedy to tell everyone what the opener is

You can imagine the lights go out, False Awakening Suite plays, curtain raises...

"Alone at night, I feel so strange..."

 :yarr

That wouldn't be bad at all!

I'm so excited. There are still more than two weeks away, but I'm already pumped! It's gonna be my second DT gig, and I picked really cool spots this time!
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: Jinx on January 12, 2017, 12:17:47 PM
Personally from the hints we've been given I am leaning towards The Dark Eternal Night. Not a usual opener, but would get the crowd going from the off! Plus I would love to see it live!!
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: gzarruk on January 12, 2017, 05:31:40 PM
Either TDEN or TMW/FT would be amazing openers. I'm not going to see any concerts (don't live in Europe or Asia or US), but I'm also very excited to see the setlist they're playing, hope to see many clips on youtube after the first couple shows  :D
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: bosk1 on January 12, 2017, 05:34:26 PM
Interesting guesses.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: ToT-147 on January 12, 2017, 05:46:14 PM
I think it'd be a fatal tragedy to tell everyone what the opener is

You can imagine the lights go out, False Awakening Suite plays, curtain raises...

"Alone at night, I feel so strange..."

 :yarr

That wouldn't be bad at all!

I'm so excited. There are still more than two weeks away, but I'm already pumped! It's gonna be my second DT gig, and I picked really cool spots this time!

Are you by any chance seeing them on January 31?..

Because -little story- : my brother and his gf (both argentinians, like me) are going to Europe for the first time in their lives for three weeks between this and the next month.. So, my brother couldn't miss the oportunity to see DT outside the country, even more giving that he missed the show in the Luna Park last year, and he's seeing them in Rome on that date.. :metal
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: gzarruk on January 12, 2017, 06:20:35 PM
Because -little story- : my brother and his gf (both argentinians, like me) are going to Europe for the first time in their lives for three weeks between this and the next month.. So, my brother couldn't miss the oportunity to see DT outside the country, even more giving that he missed the show in the Luna Park last year, and he's seeing them in Rome on that date.. :metal

Oh, man, I wish I was able to do the same thing and visit near countries like Argentina, Chile or Brazil. Looks like we (Peruvian fans) won't ever get another DT show and the saddest part is that it isn't necessarily because of the band's management decisions, but because of how terrible the music business is here  :'(
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: Jinx on January 12, 2017, 09:13:38 PM
Interesting guesses.

Interesting reply.  :hat

Well done for not giving the game away though bosk, God knows if I was given info like that I would be sharing all day  :blush
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: IDontNotDoThings on January 12, 2017, 09:19:10 PM
Interesting guesses.

Interesting reply.  :hat

(http://i.imgur.com/XHKnT5L.png)
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: the keyboard wizard on January 13, 2017, 07:01:11 AM
Personally from the hints we've been given I am leaning towards The Dark Eternal Night. Not a usual opener, but would get the crowd going from the off! Plus I would love to see it live!!
Well, IMO it's the worst DT song ever (with Raw Dog) so starting the gig with TDEN would not be cool for me. And starting the setlist with a song from Systematic Chaos which is not the most loved album ever would be strange. Fatal Tragedy would be cool and unexpected (and Mangini has already played the song).
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: Jinx on January 13, 2017, 07:06:53 AM
Its a live crowd favourite.
They've played it before.
Its not a song they have opened with before.
 :metal
Also they CAN'T play a song from their most loved album because they are playing the whole of it in the 2nd set  ;D

EDIT: get what you were trying to say now about SC. Nevermind haha
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: mikemangioy on January 13, 2017, 07:14:40 AM
I think it'd be a fatal tragedy to tell everyone what the opener is

You can imagine the lights go out, False Awakening Suite plays, curtain raises...

"Alone at night, I feel so strange..."

 :yarr

That wouldn't be bad at all!

I'm so excited. There are still more than two weeks away, but I'm already pumped! It's gonna be my second DT gig, and I picked really cool spots this time!

Are you by any chance seeing them on January 31?..

Because -little story- : my brother and his gf (both argentinians, like me) are going to Europe for the first time in their lives for three weeks between this and the next month.. So, my brother couldn't miss the oportunity to see DT outside the country, even more giving that he missed the show in the Luna Park last year, and he's seeing them in Rome on that date.. :metal

Oh man that's great! Unfortunately I'll see them on the 30th, so we won't be able to meet  :-\
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: MirrorMask on January 13, 2017, 07:54:20 AM
I'm also one of the biggest non-fans of The Dark Eternal Night, I'll go in resigned at the idea that it's the opener so if it's not that, all the better  ;D
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: bosk1 on January 13, 2017, 08:17:46 AM
Well, I've stayed away from further hints for the time being because, for the DT12 song, I've given you a 50/50 shot, and for 3 other songs, I've given enough hints to have given those away to the point that, although I haven't confirmed it, all three have been guessed correctly by people in this thread.  So, 4 non-I&W songs have been hinted at and guessed.

I will say again, though, for the vast majority of fans, even if you somehow found nothing else to like in the rest of the set, I&W and the encore alone will make you VERY happy you went.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: mikemangioy on January 13, 2017, 08:32:17 AM
Bosk, can you tell us the rough number of non-I&W songs or is it off limits?
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: bosk1 on January 13, 2017, 08:54:36 AM
Oh, gosh, I don't remember.  Rather than try to reconstruct the entire thing from memory, I'll just say this:  While I didn't sit there and calculate the set length, it appeared to be about "normal" for their "evening with" sets.  There is one mega-epic.  The rest of the songs are "typical" DT-length songs.  So...probably around 8-10 other songs or so.  Off the top of my head, I am specifically remembering 6 non-I&W songs, not including the ones from The Astonishing, and I feel like I am forgetting one. 
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: Joshgirouard on January 13, 2017, 09:00:11 AM
That's awesome bosk1. Thanks for the hints !
I was wondering when we can expect the I&W north anerican dates ? They announced via social media that they would be announced soon , and that was about 18 days ago . If you can't answer it's not a big deal , I was just wondering since I'll be away in Australia and the time difference is 14 hours and I don't want to miss out

Thanks 🤘
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: bosk1 on January 13, 2017, 09:10:47 AM
I don't know the timing of the announcement for those dates.  At the time when I spoke to JP and Maddi about it, they had just finalized the plans for the Europe tour and were in discussions about whether they could bring it to the U.S.  JP told me they were leaning toward making it happen, but not to say anything because it wasn't "officially" a go yet.  It wasn't long after that before they announced it.  But I haven't spoken to them since because they were busy wrapping up the tour, planning on taking time off with their families for the holidays, and then getting right into rehearsals.  Might be time to drop them a line and check on a couple of things though...
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: Tony From Long Island on January 13, 2017, 09:14:26 AM
Well, I only prefer the paramount for convenience.  I live in Suffolk County.

Me too! 

On related note, I was wondering if the DT guys would consider inviting Kevin Moore to make an appearance at the I&W show in NY.  Who knows, Kevin might feel differently about appearing now that Portnoy is gone.  If that happened, it would be the bomb diggity.   

I feel kinda dumb for not knowing anything about Heat between MP and Kevin Moore.    Can someone give me the short version?
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: fadetoblackdude7 on January 13, 2017, 09:27:26 AM
I have a pretty big bet with my best friend over whether or not they'll play The Glass Prison - here's hoping!

Also, Bosk - were you told/shown what the visuals are gonna be like for this tour?
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: bosk1 on January 13, 2017, 09:30:58 AM
Well, I only prefer the paramount for convenience.  I live in Suffolk County.

Me too! 

On related note, I was wondering if the DT guys would consider inviting Kevin Moore to make an appearance at the I&W show in NY.  Who knows, Kevin might feel differently about appearing now that Portnoy is gone.  If that happened, it would be the bomb diggity.   

I feel kinda dumb for not knowing anything about Heat between MP and Kevin Moore.    Can someone give me the short version?
Kevin has never spoken about it, so we don't really know.  I think the speculation is that he just didn't care too much for Mike, and that that may have been a contributing factor in him leaving and not wanting to come back and work with them again.  But we don't know that to be the case. 

From Mike's side, as far as I know, he got along fine with Kev when Kev was in the band.  But during the Awake recording sessions, as you know, Kev became distant and withdrawn.  When he then abruptly left, I think Mike sort of took it personally and felt like it was not cool the way Kev left them stranded.  The lyrics to Raise The Knife are basically Mike venting his feelings about it.

It seems that he had somewhat gotten past it.  But then years later, when he tried a couple of times to get Kev to reunite with the band for a show, and Kev declined, it seems that Mike felt like Kev was snubbing the band, and his ill feelings toward Kev were given new life. 

That's my take on it.

I have a pretty big bet with my best friend over whether or not they'll play The Glass Prison - here's hoping!

Also, Bosk - were you told/shown what the visuals are gonna be like for this tour?

No, I have no idea about the visuals.  Sorry.  It could be that, after the pretty elaborate setup for The Astonishing, that they are scaling back the visuals to focus on the music.  Or the stuff they did for The Astonishing may have inspired some cool things for this tour.  Or something in between.  I have no idea.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: Tony From Long Island on January 13, 2017, 09:39:36 AM
Thanks for the info Bosk - I think you said  I& W in one spot when you meant to say Awake.


When I first heard about the WDAD-RE-unite  show, I was kinda bummed that Kevin Moore wasn't there.

Everyone has their quirks and particular personality traits.  I've been in several bands. I understand.   If I tried today to get my main band to reform - if only to just jam - I know there's at least one person  (probably two) that would say "absolutely not" although I've never had harsh words with either of them.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: mikeyd23 on January 13, 2017, 09:41:59 AM
No, I have no idea about the visuals.  Sorry.  It could be that, after the pretty elaborate setup for The Astonishing, that they are scaling back the visuals to focus on the music.  Or the stuff they did for The Astonishing may have inspired some cool things for this tour.  Or something in between.  I have no idea.

Honestly, for this tour, I'd be cool with a super-simple stage production, really clean with just one big video screen (like the one from the DT12 tour).
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: bosk1 on January 13, 2017, 09:55:52 AM
Thanks for the info Bosk - I think you said  I& W in one spot when you meant to say Awake.

Oh, right.  Good catch.  Fixed.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: MirrorMask on January 13, 2017, 10:56:55 AM
About the visuals, I'm assuming some kind of intro video for Images and Words. Not that there HAS to be some fancy stuff, the music is all that matters, but it would feel plain to just turn out the lights again and then Pull Me Under starts.

Anyway, it's not that I exactly complained when they played half Awake and they started right off the bat with The Mirror  ;D
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: mikeyd23 on January 13, 2017, 11:10:05 AM
Yeah a video intro before the I&W portion of the set would be cool, but like I said, I feel like after TA tour, a stripped back super clean stage with a video screen would be more than enough and a nice change of pace.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: Jinx on January 13, 2017, 11:15:08 AM
Well, I've stayed away from further hints for the time being because, for the DT12 song, I've given you a 50/50 shot, and for 3 other songs, I've given enough hints to have given those away to the point that, although I haven't confirmed it, all three have been guessed correctly by people in this thread.  So, 4 non-I&W songs have been hinted at and guessed.

I will say again, though, for the vast majority of fans, even if you somehow found nothing else to like in the rest of the set, I&W and the encore alone will make you VERY happy you went.

So the DT12 song (hopefully The Bigger Picture), A Change of Seasons, Dark Eternal Night aaaaaannd Fatal Tragedy (or These Walls)
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: cramx3 on January 13, 2017, 11:38:02 AM
Yeah a video intro before the I&W portion of the set would be cool, but like I said, I feel like after TA tour, a stripped back super clean stage with a video screen would be more than enough and a nice change of pace.

Personally I don't see the point in going backwards with the visuals.  If DT has the equipment to put on a cool visual show to go with the music, they should do it.  Whether that is TA type of screens or DT12 types of screens or something different (please no ADTOE screens, I think those were my least favorite).  Unless DT plans on playing small clubs, they shouldn't go backwards with the stage show.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: mikeyd23 on January 13, 2017, 11:39:45 AM
Personally I don't see the point in going backwards with the visuals.  If DT has the equipment to put on a cool visual show to go with the music, they should do it.  Whether that is TA type of screens or DT12 types of screens or something different (please no ADTOE screens, I think those were my least favorite).  Unless DT plans on playing small clubs, they shouldn't go backwards with the stage show.

I hear you, but I don't know if I see it as "going backwards" more like just taking a different approach.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: Jinx on January 13, 2017, 12:18:50 PM
I loved the screen on the Along for the Ride tour. Was massive and everyone in the building could see them so no one really missed out. As cramx3 pointed out, the ADTOE cube things were not great.

Oh bosk one more thing - will the mighty drum solo retur  this time round? Or any songs on that setlist where Mangini could do his thing for a few minutes (as in Enigma Machine)?
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: Tony From Long Island on January 13, 2017, 12:25:12 PM
I've never been a fan of Drum solos, no matter who's playing them.  I'd rather have a song in that spot - an instrumental if they want to give James a few mins to chill. 

While we're at it guitar solos can go too!     I want to hear THE BAND  :-)
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: fadetoblackdude7 on January 13, 2017, 12:26:54 PM
I've never been a fan of Drum solos, no matter who's playing them.  I'd rather have a song in that spot - an instrumental if they want to give James a few mins to chill. 

While we're at it guitar solos can go too!     I want to hear THE BAND  :-)

I really like solos that set the mood, like the one JP does on score before spirit.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: mikeyd23 on January 13, 2017, 12:29:53 PM
I've never been a fan of Drum solos, no matter who's playing them.  I'd rather have a song in that spot - an instrumental if they want to give James a few mins to chill. 

While we're at it guitar solos can go too!     I want to hear THE BAND  :-)

I really like solos that set the mood, like the one JP does on score before spirit.

Yup, I loved when DT used to do extended solo jams in intros or outros, or lengthening the solo section in the middle of a song.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: MirrorMask on January 13, 2017, 12:30:43 PM
The intro jams are particuarly entertaining since you're there guessing where they will lead and how the actual song will tie in.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: bosk1 on January 13, 2017, 12:31:34 PM
Oh bosk one more thing - will the mighty drum solo retur  this time round? Or any songs on that setlist where Mangini could do his thing for a few minutes (as in Enigma Machine)?
I didn't see a designated spot in the set list for a drum solo.  But that said, it was a list of the songs to be played/rehearsed, so it didn't have other stuff on it that you would see in a finalized set list, such as spots where James addresses the crowd, etc.  So it could be that solo spots are indeed intended, but just weren't on the list yet at that stage.  No idea.  There is a spot in the set list where it would be logical to have an extended JP solo, if they so intend.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: mikeyd23 on January 13, 2017, 12:37:11 PM
The intro jams are particuarly entertaining since you're there guessing where they will lead and how the actual song will tie in.

Agreed. Like you mentioned, TSCO on Score is a great example, as is HY on LaB.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: KevShmev on January 13, 2017, 12:38:31 PM
The best thing about a drum solo is it gives some of us a chance for a piss break.  :tup :tup
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: Jinx on January 13, 2017, 12:57:16 PM
Another thing I would like to see is something similiar to the the intermission videos on the AFTR tour. They were quite funny actually, was something to keep me entertained during the break!
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: bosk1 on January 13, 2017, 01:05:45 PM
Yeah, that stuff was great.  I'm not sure I would expect something like that on this tour.  Again, I think the focus may likely be on the music and "fun" aspect.  But as people are hopefully getting from the last 3 tours, the present incarnation of the band is really focused on the production side of their shows.  They love that.  So I'm sure we'll be seeing other cool things in the future.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: cramx3 on January 13, 2017, 01:08:59 PM
Oh bosk one more thing - will the mighty drum solo retur  this time round? Or any songs on that setlist where Mangini could do his thing for a few minutes (as in Enigma Machine)?
I didn't see a designated spot in the set list for a drum solo.  But that said, it was a list of the songs to be played/rehearsed, so it didn't have other stuff on it that you would see in a finalized set list, such as spots where James addresses the crowd, etc.  So it could be that solo spots are indeed intended, but just weren't on the list yet at that stage.  No idea.  There is a spot in the set list where it would be logical to have an extended JP solo, if they so intend.

The end of A New Beginning.  But add me to the list of people who don't really like seeing the solo spots.  I have no issues with extended jams or intros/outros though.  I just want to see the band, not really someone just dominating their instrument alone.  We all know they can do it and we've all seen/heard them from previous releases.  Give me another song!  Or a band jam.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: Tony From Long Island on January 13, 2017, 01:26:35 PM
I've never been a fan of Drum solos, no matter who's playing them.  I'd rather have a song in that spot - an instrumental if they want to give James a few mins to chill. 

While we're at it guitar solos can go too!     I want to hear THE BAND  :-)

I really like solos that set the mood, like the one JP does on score before spirit.

Yup, I loved when DT used to do extended solo jams in intros or outros, or lengthening the solo section in the middle of a song.

Oh yeah, I have no problem with extended intros or improvising in the middle sections, etc.   That's great and part of the greatness of DT.  I just don't care for Solos just to solo, whether it's drums, guitar or keys.

I almost ALWAYS skip the solo tracks when I am playing a live album.   (especially the CC Deville solos on Poison live albums!  yech!!)
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: Setlist Scotty on January 13, 2017, 02:53:14 PM
Kevin has never spoken about it, so we don't really know.  I think the speculation is that he just didn't care too much for Mike, and that that may have been a contributing factor in him leaving and not wanting to come back and work with them again.  But we don't know that to be the case. 

From Mike's side, as far as I know, he got along fine with Kev when Kev was in the band.  But during the Awake recording sessions, as you know, Kev became distant and withdrawn.  When he then abruptly left, I think Mike sort of took it personally and felt like it was not cool the way Kev left them stranded.  The lyrics to Raise The Knife are basically Mike venting his feelings about it.

It seems that he had somewhat gotten past it.  But then years later, when he tried a couple of times to get Kev to reunite with the band for a show, and Kev declined, it seems that Mike felt like Kev was snubbing the band, and his ill feelings toward Kev were given new life. 

That's my take on it.
Honestly, I think Mebert was incorrect in implying that Kev's issues had to do with MP, so now he would be interested in a reunion with DT for a show/song...unless of course Mebert knows something he's not divulging. Do you?

Until Mebert says otherwise though, I don't think MP was the whole reason why Kev refused to reunite with DT in the past. Don't forget that MP did 2 OSI albums with Kev - if Kev had issues with MP, he wouldn't have been willing to be a part of OSI at all. And recall what Kev's response was when turning down the offer to do the show that ended up being LSFNY - something to the effect of "why would I want to play an old song just for the sake of it?" The man is clearly not into nostalgia, which is how he views the idea of reuniting with DT.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: bosk1 on January 13, 2017, 03:02:39 PM
That's all very true.  Good point.  Not having followed any of Kev's work outside of DT (and not having any interest in it), I had forgotten OSI even existed, much less Mike's involvement.  But that said, Mike also said some pretty harsh things about Kev much later, after that.  And whether or not those things might be true or whether or not he was justified isn't the point; I think the point still stands that it is hard to imagine that not being a barrier to Kev coming back to play with the band while Mike was still there.  But ultimately, we don't know what is or was going through his mind.  All we can do is guess based on the info we have.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: ytserush on January 13, 2017, 03:54:10 PM
Based on what Kevin has said and based on the music he's done after he left, I'd have to think Kevin's reasons have more to do with where his head is these days.

I understand completely why he left when I first heard the music, but other than maybe Space Dye Vest there is no obvious hint of the musical direction he wanted to go in.

Obviously he kicked his decision around for a while, but I've always wondered when it was first considered (that he wanted to pursue his musical direction not necessarily his decision to leave the band.)
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: bosk1 on January 13, 2017, 03:59:05 PM
Oh, certainly.  From what we have to go on, that seems like the reason he left.  I'm not saying that anything between him and Mike was the reason he left.  I'm just saying that, to answer your question above, even conceding what Scotty said, some of the stuff that Mike said afterward could very well have been a barrier to him coming back again.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: Madman Shepherd on January 13, 2017, 04:03:10 PM
I don't think MP had anything to do with Kevin leaving DT.  He was growing distant from the WHOLE band including his high school buddy John Petrucci.  Didn't JP write Innocence Faded in part because of the growing distance with him and Kevin?

I also don't think MP had much to do with Kevin not wanting to reunite with DT.  I'm sure his "Kevin No Moore" comments sealed the deal about them not having much of a relationship but up to that point his relationship was pretty non-existent anyway with the exception of emailing each other once in a rare while anyway.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: gzarruk on January 13, 2017, 04:38:26 PM
Well, Kevin joining them for a guest spot on one of these shows would be very cool, but I don't see it ever happening. As some already said on the last few posts, Kevin isn't interested in playing the old DT songs, and that's fine tbh. However, he actually wrote lyrics for a Fates Warning song on their previous studio album (DIADL), so it would be amazing if they ever got Kevin to collaborate with lyrics on a song or two on a new DT album.

About them being still in contact, I don't think they talk too much, either, but these posts made me remember a tweet James sent to Kevin and he actually replied very open about hanging together.
Here's the link: https://twitter.com/kevnmoore/status/652556056078483456
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: sfam2112 on January 14, 2017, 12:23:34 AM
Sorry if it's been asked already but I didn't catch it if it was. Will WDaDU be represented in the set? In an interview during the DT12 tour, JP mentioned that they considered "Only A Matter of Time" for that tour but it (obviously) didn't make the cut. I was wondering if it (or any song from it) might make it this time around. :)
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: dodido253 on January 14, 2017, 02:31:39 AM
https://twitter.com/ManginiMike/status/816021462188429312
Good chances for drum solo lol
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: ? on January 14, 2017, 06:16:41 AM
I don't believe Kevin left DT because of MP, but from what I've read, there was a lot of tension between the two of them during the first OSI sessions, and I doubt it was a coincidence that Kevin became much more reluctant to talk about DT in interviews after that. That said, even now that MP is gone, I still find it unlikely that Kevin would suddenly want to perform with the band again, because to date he's only played one solo show and none with OSI, so live performances of any kind are clearly not high on his priority list.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: Jinx on January 14, 2017, 07:11:42 AM
https://twitter.com/ManginiMike/status/816021462188429312
Good chances for drum solo lol

Good spot. Wonder what the song could be??

Bosk my friend and knowledge keeper - could you say how many songs off of TA there are? If I was gonna whittle it down to say, 4 songs I would have:

The Gift of Music
Three Days
A New Beginning
Our New World

Which clocks in at 20 mins approx.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: gmillerdrake on January 14, 2017, 09:32:37 AM
Still waiting for the North American dates...... :\      they said 'coming soon' quite some time ago.....
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: Eldomm on January 14, 2017, 10:38:05 AM
https://twitter.com/ManginiMike/status/816021462188429312
Good chances for drum solo lol

Good spot. Wonder what the song could be??

Bosk my friend and knowledge keeper - could you say how many songs off of TA there are? If I was gonna whittle it down to say, 4 songs I would have:

The Gift of Music
Three Days
A New Beginning
Our New World

Which clocks in at 20 mins approx.

I'd say:

The Gift of Music
A New Beginning
Moment of Betrayal
Our New World
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: bosk1 on January 14, 2017, 12:37:58 PM
Bosk my friend and knowledge keeper - could you say how many songs off of TA there are?

I don't remember.  I didn't pay close attention to that and just kind of glossed over the TA songs, since I knew there were going to be TA songs anyway.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: bosk1 on January 14, 2017, 12:45:09 PM
https://twitter.com/ManginiMike/status/816021462188429312
Good chances for drum solo lol

This is purely a guess, but I'm thinking maybe it comes in the middle of Take the Time or Metropolis.  The reason I am guessing that is simply because it would provide a longer break for James during some of the more challenging material in the set, and both of those songs have instrumental passages that would lend themselves to a drum break.  But beyond that, as I said, that is purely a guess.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: Jinx on January 14, 2017, 02:36:07 PM
I was thinking at between 12.5 and 13 mins of the (unconfirmed) A Change of Seasons.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: Setlist Scotty on January 14, 2017, 07:22:39 PM
I don't believe Kevin left DT because of MP, but from what I've read, there was a lot of tension between the two of them during the first OSI sessions, and I doubt it was a coincidence that Kevin became much more reluctant to talk about DT in interviews after that.
While there was definitely tension between the two of them, I don't recall there being a significant reduction in Kev's willingness to talk about DT. From what I remember, he tried to distance himself from the band as soon as he left, and earlier on, learned to avoid addressing anything DT-related.
 
 
I was thinking at between 12.5 and 13 mins of the (unconfirmed) A Change of Seasons.
Since when does a band have a drum solo in the opening song?
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: Rushspirit2112 on January 14, 2017, 07:57:37 PM
How do you know it's the opening song? That'd be pretty badass IMO.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: Mosh on January 14, 2017, 11:21:38 PM
I would rather them not throw a drum solo in the middle of a song that didn't have one originally. Drum solos are bad enough, but they can really kill the vibe of a song. Also don't want to have it stuck in a (hopefully) eventual live album. I like what they did with Enigma Machine in 2014. Something like that would be good.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: Prog Snob on January 14, 2017, 11:53:08 PM
If there's any song on Images where a drum solo would fit, it would be at the end of the solo in Under A Glass Moon.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: Adami on January 14, 2017, 11:54:43 PM
Probably been mentioned, but which songs from I&W have been played with Mangini?
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: Prog Snob on January 15, 2017, 12:02:55 AM
PMU, Metropolis. Any others?
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: ? on January 15, 2017, 12:32:35 AM
I don't believe Kevin left DT because of MP, but from what I've read, there was a lot of tension between the two of them during the first OSI sessions, and I doubt it was a coincidence that Kevin became much more reluctant to talk about DT in interviews after that.
While there was definitely tension between the two of them, I don't recall there being a significant reduction in Kev's willingness to talk about DT. From what I remember, he tried to distance himself from the band as soon as he left, and earlier on, learned to avoid addressing anything DT-related.
Exhibit A from 2000 with plenty of DT comments (http://www.oocities.org/hume2112/chromakeyint.html) ;D
Probably been mentioned, but which songs from I&W have been played with Mangini?
Everything except TTT, as far as I know.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: TheAtliator on January 15, 2017, 12:40:38 AM
Probably been mentioned, but which songs from I&W have been played with Mangini?
Everything except TTT, as far as I know.

Correct. And Another Day was only played once.

How do you know it's the opening song? That'd be pretty badass IMO.

Judging from what Bosk said, I think it's the encore:

The encore was actually supposed to have been played at a show I attended in the past, but had to be cut at the last minute.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: erwinrafael on January 15, 2017, 01:14:20 AM
So the set is 3 hours, based on this Mangini post:

"3hr Tour Songs+foot speed practice=0 sweat. Football pass patterns w/10 yr old= sweat! 7yr old did cartwheels for 5hrs on our balance beam."
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: Adami on January 15, 2017, 01:16:30 AM
Yea, I'd say anywhere from 2 and a half to 3 hours. Since I doubt he'd say "2hr and 39 minute Tour Songs...."
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: Jinx on January 15, 2017, 03:22:56 AM
I seriously cannot wait for this. All doubts on JLBs ability to nail everything aside, the thought of finally seeing Metropolis live makes me verrry excited!

I really hope they go balls to the wall first set. It would be insane to see TDEN, PA, TGP all in the same set.

EDIT: Also bosk has stated there will be an instrumental. What are we thinking it could be? I was leaning towards the one-two of Hells Kitchen into Lines in the Sand but I know a lot of people would love Stream of Conciousness
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: Mladen on January 15, 2017, 03:47:20 AM
I'd love Stream of consciousness, but Erotomania is more likely.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: MirrorMask on January 15, 2017, 03:52:49 AM
I'd love Stream of consciousness, but Erotomania is more likely.

Especially if it segues into Voices!  :metal
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: Schurftkut on January 15, 2017, 08:42:01 AM
no love for Ytsejam? that one could include that drumsolo bit ;-)
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: DarkLord_Lalinc on January 15, 2017, 01:22:57 PM
no love for Ytsejam? that one could include that drumsolo bit ;-)
I hope not. They already played that in the ADTOE tour and they have tons of better instrumental songs lol.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: Setlist Scotty on January 15, 2017, 04:07:24 PM
I don't believe Kevin left DT because of MP, but from what I've read, there was a lot of tension between the two of them during the first OSI sessions, and I doubt it was a coincidence that Kevin became much more reluctant to talk about DT in interviews after that.
While there was definitely tension between the two of them, I don't recall there being a significant reduction in Kev's willingness to talk about DT. From what I remember, he tried to distance himself from the band as soon as he left, and earlier on, learned to avoid addressing anything DT-related.
Exhibit A from 2000 with plenty of DT comments (http://www.oocities.org/hume2112/chromakeyint.html) ;D
Point taken!  :tup
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: goo-goo on January 15, 2017, 06:56:10 PM
Very interesting read:

I found this bit interesting:
"2112: Or maybe just your favorite Dream Theater album, sound-wise.

KM: I don’t know. I think the best sounding album is Images and Words. I think my sound is better on Awake, even though I hate the mix. The mix is terrible on Awake. But I like the sounds used on Awake better."

Kind of funny he feels that way because I love the production on Awake very much. It's probably my favorite DT mix.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: Mosh on January 15, 2017, 07:22:03 PM
Keyboards are low in the mix and not very present for the most part, maybe that's why he hates it. IIRC, they mixed it after Kevin announced he was leaving the band.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: noxon on January 16, 2017, 07:26:26 AM
I used to have Kevin Moore on MSN Messenger. We used to talk about Chroma Key stuff a lot, because at the time I was hosting some videos for him on my University server. This was back in 2002-2003, I'd say.

Once I asked him if it would be possible to get an interview for the DT fanzine.

...

I never heard from him again.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: MirrorMask on January 16, 2017, 07:40:19 AM
That calls for a meme  :lol

"When you have Kevin Moore on MSN... but you ask him about DT and he blocks you"
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: SwedishGoose on January 16, 2017, 10:47:03 AM
Will see the tour on the 18th of February.

Have started listening through the albums in order of release. First two albums done... just a few left :-)
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: Tony From Long Island on January 16, 2017, 11:23:33 AM

KM: I don’t know. I think the best sounding album is Images and Words. I think my sound is better on Awake, even though I hate the mix. The mix is terrible on Awake. But I like the sounds used on Awake better."

Kind of funny he feels that way because I love the production on Awake very much. It's probably my favorite DT mix.

Oh yeah!  I love everything about Awake.  I wish he would have elaborated on what he thought was wrong with the mix.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: Evai on January 16, 2017, 12:14:55 PM
It's a big wash of indistinct reverb, a far cry from the punchy, direct sound of IaW. (I love Awake)
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: jsbru on January 16, 2017, 01:21:44 PM
Sorry if it's been asked already but I didn't catch it if it was. Will WDaDU be represented in the set? In an interview during the DT12 tour, JP mentioned that they considered "Only A Matter of Time" for that tour but it (obviously) didn't make the cut. I was wondering if it (or any song from it) might make it this time around. :)

Only a Matter of Time is on Live at Budokan, and Fortune in Lies is on Live at Luna Park, so if they play something from that album, I'd hope it would be something new.

With that said OAMOT is definitely my favorite song from that album, so...
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: TAC on January 16, 2017, 01:25:07 PM
The Killing Hand is long overdue.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: jsbru on January 16, 2017, 01:46:51 PM
Either TDEN or TMW/FT would be amazing openers. I'm not going to see any concerts (don't live in Europe or Asia or US), but I'm also very excited to see the setlist they're playing, hope to see many clips on youtube after the first couple shows  :D

I can't for the life of me figure out what TMW/FT stands for.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: mikeyd23 on January 16, 2017, 01:48:00 PM
I can't for the life of me figure out what TMW/FT stands for.

Through My Words/Fatal Tragedy
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: jsbru on January 16, 2017, 01:49:29 PM
No wonder.  I was looking at their alphabetized song list, and both of those started with "Scene III," so I missed them!  :D
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: gzarruk on January 16, 2017, 01:50:36 PM
I can't for the life of me figure out what TMW/FT stands for.

Through My Words/Fatal Tragedy

 :lol I should just write the full song names next time, but yes, those are the songs I meant.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: jsbru on January 16, 2017, 02:16:52 PM
1st Set

1. The Spirit Carries On
2. The Bigger Picture -or- Surrender to Reason
3. The Glass Prison
4. Burning My Soul/Hell's Kitchen
5. Panic Attack
6. Something from WDADU -or- an earlier B-side like To Live Forever, etc.
7. A New Beginning
8. As I Am
9. Lines in the Sand
10. Our New World
11. Disappear


2nd Set - Images and Words

12. Pull Me Under
13. Another Day
14. Take the Time
15. Surrounded
16. Metropolis, Pt. 1
17. Under a Glass Moon
18. Wait for Sleep
19. Learning to Live

Encore 1

20. Raw Dog

Encore 2

21. A Change of Seasons

Other songs I wouldn't be surprised to see:
- The Enemy Inside
- Looking Glass
- Home
- On the Backs of Angels
- Forsaken
- Vacant/Stream of Consciousness

I think I only want to make a few changes to this after the other hints have been dropped:

1st Set

1. The Dark Eternal Night (not a figurative "monster" track, but the lyrics do literally say "monstrous") The Dance of Eternity
2. The Bigger Picture -or- Surrender to Reason (I'm leaning toward STR)
3. Moment of Betrayal
4. Burning My Soul/Hell's Kitchen (the Instrumental, the representation from FII)
5. The Gift of Music
6. Something from WDADU -or- an earlier B-side like To Live Forever, etc.
7. A New Beginning
8. As I Am (part of the late US tour encore)
9. Lines in the Sand (the other "epic" and part of FII, consistent with 15th anniversary of album)
10. Spirit Carries On (part of the late US tour encore)
11. Our New World


2nd Set - Images and Words

12. Pull Me Under
13. Another Day
14. Take the Time
15. Surrounded
16. Metropolis, Pt. 1
17. Under a Glass Moon
18. Wait for Sleep
19. Learning to Live

Encore 1

20. A Change of Seasons
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: fadetoblackdude7 on January 16, 2017, 04:52:12 PM
What are the hints that Bosk has given us? (Too lazy to backtrack pages) I know he said either TBP or STR, and a few songs from TA but forget the others
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: TAC on January 16, 2017, 08:02:59 PM
He's given two hints so far!


1. I know
2. You guys don't



 ;D
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: gzarruk on January 16, 2017, 09:58:46 PM
He's given two hints so far!


1. I know
2. You guys don't

 :rollin


 ;D
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: jsbru on January 16, 2017, 11:23:54 PM
Including the encore songs from this latest Astonishing tour is my own surmising, because they really only have a month and a half to learn any new songs, and that month and a half includes the holidays, which I'm sure they spent relaxing with their families.

If MM is spending time learning ACOS, he doesn't have a ton of time to learn other new stuff.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: Prog Snob on January 16, 2017, 11:30:48 PM
This is Mike Mangini we're talking about. It'll take him 10 minutes per 5 seconds of song to figure out how he wants to play it.  :biggrin:
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: dodido253 on January 17, 2017, 05:05:47 AM
My guess for the opener would be Home - SFAM.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: MirrorMask on January 17, 2017, 05:35:29 AM
My guess for the opener would be Home - SFAM.

Crossing fingers for this!!! it would be a slow burn start of the show but it's not so bad thinking about it, to hear the noises at the beginning and the guys slowly appearing on stage and then full lights when they hit the "whawha!" part.

False Awakening Suite seguing into the opening riff of The Dark Eternal Night with the spotlight on Petrucci would work quite well too, but damn I dislike that song  :lol
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: gzarruk on January 17, 2017, 01:45:29 PM
The opener is a song they've already played live with Mike, and they haven't played Home with him yet. If I had to pick a SFAM song they haven't played in recent years to add to the setlist, it would be Beyond This Life.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: jsbru on January 17, 2017, 04:00:16 PM
With that said, I might be reading too much into Bosk's "Interesting" comment at either TDEN or TMW/FT being the opener.  Previously in the thread, he also said "Interesting" to Scarred, Finally Free or The Great Debate.  And confirmed that BAI would be "an unexpected, yet cool opener".  IT, TSCO, and were also guessed as the opener, but no comment in response from Bosk.

So he might be trying to throw us off.

He did say that the opener was a "monster" track though.  But not necessarily a mega-epic.  The only songs with "Monster" in the lyrics are TDEN ("monstrous"), TITL ("cast off the monsters inside"), A Tempting Offer ("You monster, leave my son alone"), A Fortune in Lies ("the heart of this monster creation"), Behind the Veil ("What kind of monster would come to feast"), and Peruvian Skies ("I'm the monster you created").  If it's not this, than it's got to be "monster" in some other way, either due to length, complexity, epic-ness, or heaviness.

We know it's not:
BTV, because BP/STR is the only song from DT12
6DOIT, because it's under 25 minutes

He didn't specifically say Mangini played it, only that it was played "recently," but that it has never been an opener.  I suppose "recently" could mean one of Portnoy's last tours, given that DT has been a band almost 30 years.

It's hard to sum up all the clues but we have:

1. Played "recently" - some people are assuming this means MM has played it, but that's not necessarily true
2. "Monster" track
3. Never opened with
4. Interesting as opener; not one Bosk would have picked "in a million years," but not one so obscure as to jump out at him right away
5. It's a "crowd pleaser"
6. Bosk was listening to at 3:58pm Pacific time, the afternoon of Wednesday, Nov. 30, and then listening to another band at 4:23pm, 25 minutes after that, and this is some how a clue, but not necessarily because it was Epica he was listening to after.
7. It's already been guessed, but we don't know by whom
8. Under 25 min. (this only eliminates one song, but it is what it is)
9. Not on I&W due to process of elimination (obviously)
10. Not on BC&SL
11. Probably not on DT12, since we know the only track from that album is BP/STR, which are sort of inconsistent with many of the other clues.
12. Probably not ACOS, because that hasn't been played recently, except for ATTSTA and Innocence, but these don't really fit in as "monster" tracks by themselves.
13. Probably not WDADU or a B-side, because that's unusual enough that Bosk wouldn't overlook it at first
14. Probably not 6DOIT, since TGP and the title track are eliminated for other reasons, and none of the others have either been played recently or are crowd pleasers.
15. Probably not on TA, as very few of those could be considered "monster" tracks, except the "monster" lyrics in ATO, which seems pretty random that they'd pick this song out of everything else on that album
15. Specifically, it's not Never Enough
1g. Specifically, it's not FAS

That's really all the clues in one place.

Either the clues are too vague, or I'm just missing something, because none of those hints really give it away to me.  There's a number of possibilities for each one.  Someone guessed it right though, perhaps randomly, perhaps not.

I do have to say that TDEN is not inconsistent with any of those.  The only one that's a stretch is "crowd pleaser," but I'm not really sure.  It has very mixed popularity on this board, but that might just be hardcore fans, and the more general fan base might love it.  I've never been at a show where they played it, though, so I can't judge the reaction.

My guess is that it's probably on Awake, FII, SFAM, TOT, Octavarium, SC, or ADTOE.  And that it's a crowd-pleasing monster track from one of these.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: bosk1 on January 17, 2017, 04:09:39 PM
Interesting.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: jsbru on January 17, 2017, 04:14:55 PM
Dammit!!
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: bosk1 on January 17, 2017, 04:18:23 PM
1. Played "recently" - some people are assuming this means MM has played it, but that's not necessarily true.
No, it has been played since MM joined.  I think I said that, but if I didn’t, that is what I meant.
4. Interesting as opener; not one Bosk would have picked "in a million years," but not one so obscure as to jump out at him right away.
It didn’t jump out at me because it has been played recently, it has been played fairly often since its release, and it is a crowd pleaser.  But JP had just shown me the screen on his phone where he had it written, and I was reading quickly and trying to take it in, so it didn’t register that it was the opener.  It wasn’t until we had scrolled through the entire thing and he (or maybe it was Maddi?) asked me what I thought of the opener, and I had to ask him to scroll back.
6. Bosk was listening to at 3:58pm Pacific time, the afternoon of Wednesday, Nov. 30, and then listening to another band at 4:23pm, 25 minutes after that, and this is some how a clue, but not necessarily because it was Epica he was listening to after.
The fact that it was Epica is absolutely a clue, but just not in the way people were guessing.  It has nothing to do with any specific Epica song or lyrics.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: bosk1 on January 17, 2017, 04:28:37 PM
To sort of restate the principle behind the clue in your #6:  http://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=28146.msg1102967#msg1102967
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: jsbru on January 17, 2017, 05:13:04 PM
1. Well that solidifies my guess that it's not on 6DOIT, because everything but TGD has not been played since MM joined, except for scattered parts of 6DOIT (but not the song as a whole).

I guess if I go album to album (using data from setlist.fm)

If it's on Octavarium, it's either PA or TW, because nothing else has been played with MM exceot for TROAE, but they opened with that before.  Each could be described as a "monster" track due to either heaviness or length, and the former is really a crowd pleaser, but TW doesn't really fit in this category.  PA is not really all that remarkable as an opener, and they may have even opened with it before.

Could be Forsaken, CM, or TDEN from SC.  ITPOE hasn't been played by MM.  The rest are not crowd pleasers.  TDEN is the most likely to be considered a "monster" track of the three due to heaviness and lyrics.  I don't know if the other two have ever opened a set before.

On TOT, Endless Sacrifice does sort of check all the boxes, it's been played a lot, it's long enough to be monstrous by length, and at least to my knowledge, has not been used as an opener.  I think it's the next best guess from TDEN.  As I Am has also been played a lot, but it's been used as an opener.  Everything else from this album pre-dates the Mangini days.

They've played everything from Awake too much for me to look up which ones they've opened with before, but I don't think they've ever done so with Scarred, which is on my "good guess" list.  Also, other than tracks 3-5, they've played this whole album in the Mangini era, so it's hard to guess which other one it might be from this album. TSM and SDV are not monster in any way, and LSOAD isn't really either, so you can knock those off, too.  6:00 not unusual for an opener. I previously said it could be CIAW due to Epica having an identically-named song. So it could be tracks 2, 7, 8, and 10 off this album.

ADTOE is just too hard to narrow down, because it's all been played during the Mangini days.  BITS has been used as an opener, and OTBOA is not remarkable as an opener in any way.  But there's two good crowd-pleaser choices from this album in BAI and Outcry.  And Outcry hasn't been played all that recently (2011 was the last time).

SFAM is probably the hardest to guess, since a lot of it has been played since MM has joined the band, and there's too many songs for me to check if they are the opener.

For FII, ToT fits the bill.  So does Peruvian Skies, but that strikes me as a good opener, and they might have even opened with it before (they've played it too many times for me to look it up.  But it also has the "monster" lyric, and we know there's a FII track in the set somewhere.

Best guesses given the above, in order of what I think, are TDEN, Endless Sacrifice, Breaking All Illusions, Scarred, CIAW, Trial of Tears, or something from SFAM that they haven't opened with yet.

Of all of these, the only one I see any significant relationship with to Epica is CIAW due to song name.  It doesn't strike me as an unusual opener, though.
  I guess it doesn't have to do with an individual song name or lyrics.  I think I'd probably take CIAW off then.

IOW, I'm still confused.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: IDontNotDoThings on January 17, 2017, 05:24:28 PM
Have they opened with The Ytse Jam before?
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: bosk1 on January 17, 2017, 06:01:17 PM
Well, back to the Epica clue, it has to do with the fact that I was listening to that particular band after listening to Dream Theater.  It's Epica after Dream Theater that is the clue.  Song names, lyrics, etc. are not relevant.  Only the timing is relevant.  That clue alone doesn't narrow down the specific song, and doesn't necessarily narrow it down to the specific album, but it does help in significantly narrowing it down to a much smaller set of albums.  And then your other deductive reasoning strands can probably narrow it down from there to a very small set of songs.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: TAC on January 17, 2017, 06:04:49 PM
Enigma Machine
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: bosk1 on January 17, 2017, 06:08:37 PM
:faceplam:

...when the facepalm is so severe that you can't even spell it right.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: CDrice on January 17, 2017, 06:09:31 PM
To sort of restate the principle behind the clue in your #6:  http://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=28146.msg1102967#msg1102967

Kind of out of topic, but thanks for sharing this thread. It's awesome  :lol
It's just unfortunate that it never came to a proper end.

As for the clue, I have no idea other than it could be one of their epic since you can't spell Epica without it.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: TAC on January 17, 2017, 06:12:46 PM
:faceplam:

...when the facepalm is so severe that you can't even spell it right.

That's called a :kingplam:




Just a shot as Enigma is in one of their album titles.

Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: IDontNotDoThings on January 17, 2017, 06:17:47 PM
bosk, do you not have any ELP album?  :huh:
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: IDontNotDoThings on January 17, 2017, 06:22:43 PM
Song names, lyrics, etc. are not relevant.  Only the timing is relevant.

I'm guessing this means that you don't sort songs by song title.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: jsbru on January 17, 2017, 06:24:48 PM
So then if your songs were all organized in alphabetical order on your playlist (which I think someone mentioned), with the artist name first followed by the song name, and you don't have a ton of bands on there, you might have been listening to Ytse Jam.

Which would definitely give me a double-take as an opener.

All the other stuff at the end of DT's song list alphabetically either doesn't fit, or is on I&W.

I guess it is pretty "monster" in a way.

Even so, it's hard to believe it survived the entire duration of Mike Portnoy's rotating set-lists without ever being used as an opener.  I tend to discount the odds of their earlier stuff meeting that criterion for just this reason.  But perhaps simply opening up without the full band is just the quirk this song needed to survive all that without being the opener.

Then again, as I randomly peruse their setlists, it seems like they opened with Metropolis Pt. 1 basically every show for their first 7 years.  And Ytse Jam basically got close to zero play during the rotating setlist days.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: TAC on January 17, 2017, 06:26:31 PM
It's Finally Free.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: bosk1 on January 17, 2017, 06:33:43 PM
bosk, do you not have any ELP album?  :huh:
Nope.  But I can tell by this question and the next that you definitely get it.
Song names, lyrics, etc. are not relevant.  Only the timing is relevant.

I'm guessing this means that you don't sort songs by song title.
Nope.  My work computer has Windows Media Player.  I have not modified the settings.  It sorts by artist, then album within the artist, alphabetically.

I have never listened to When Dream and Day Unite at work.

Good questions.  :tup
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: TAC on January 17, 2017, 06:35:34 PM
Bosk, what did you listen to after Epica? Nightwish?
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: bosk1 on January 17, 2017, 06:37:49 PM
I don't remember.  But I have two Epica albums loaded.  One is a double album, and the other is a triple (Retrospect), so I doubt I got through them all.  :lol  But if I did, Fates Warning would have been next.  Then Flotsam.  :metal
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: jsbru on January 17, 2017, 06:39:17 PM
If the alphabetical theme is right and you don't have DT's entire catalog on your playlist, I suppose Trial of Tears and This is the Life could qualify.

TOT is sort of a monster mini-epic.  TITL has the "monster" lyric.  Both are sort of unusual as openers, but TITL hasn't been played all that much (just on the tour that spurned LALP).  It's hard to forget that tour, because that's where the video cuts to that super-hot DT chick singing along. Nevertheless, I wouldn't put it in the fan favorite category, even though I like it a lot.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: bosk1 on January 17, 2017, 06:41:24 PM
???  Really?
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: IDontNotDoThings on January 17, 2017, 06:42:15 PM
No, it's alphabetical by albums, so Train Of Thought is last, meaning it's either Stream Of Consciousness or In The Name Of God.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: TAC on January 17, 2017, 06:43:44 PM
  Then Flotsam.  :metal

 :metal

If the alphabetical theme is right and you don't have DT's entire catalog on your playlist, I suppose Trial of Tears and This is the Life could qualify.

How are you figuring the alphabetical theme?
Dream Theater
Epica
F.....song starts with an F

...or the album starts with an F
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: jsbru on January 17, 2017, 06:46:04 PM
No, it's alphabetical by albums, so Train Of Thought is last, meaning it's either Stream Of Consciousness or In The Name Of God.

Yeah, I didn't see that until after I posted my post.

Nevertheless, both of the songs you list here haven't been played by Mangini (unless setlist.fm is wrong), so...
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: bosk1 on January 17, 2017, 06:46:16 PM
No, it's alphabetical by albums, so Train Of Thought is last, meaning it's either Stream Of Consciousness or In The Name Of God.

Yeah, if your logic is correct, you kind of have to guess at which albums I have loaded on my work computer.  But if your logic is correct, then even without knowing, you could still narrow it down to a few.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: jsbru on January 17, 2017, 06:55:34 PM
Well now that opens up a couple of possibilities.  One of which has already been guessed.  Another has not been guessed.  I find this second possibility pretty hilarious, but I also find it hard to believe that Bosk doesn't have that album on his work computer.  But he said it has been guessed, so...

It follows in a narrative sense from the end of TA, but it's not really a great choice for an opener.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: IDontNotDoThings on January 17, 2017, 07:02:23 PM
Okay, so neither SOC or ITNOG have been played live, the next album back in alphabetical order is Systematic Chaos, but neither TMOLS or ITPOE have been played live by Mangini either.

Then there's SDOIT, which is greater than 25 minutes.

Then there's Octavarium, in which neither SS or the title track have been played live by Mangini.

EDIT: Actually, Octavarium HAS been played live with Mangini, so this could actually still be a possibility!

Then Metropolis II, which means it could be TDOE, OLT, TSCO or FF, & being one of DT's most highly regarded albums, I find it hard to believe that bosk wouldn't have this on his computer.

One Last Time hasn't been played live with Mangini, but the other three have, & all three could be considered crowd-pleasers. TSCO may have been opened with, but I'm not sure, & it's also the only one of the three that maybe isn't a "monster track".

That leaves TDOE & FF. Personally speaking, I don't think Finally Free would work well as an opener at all, so, like I said before
My bets on TDOE.

That could also be why bosk said he was "listening to it now" when we were discussing possibilities, because he was listening to an argument that was bound to go on forever.  :lol (Edit: this pun could also be applied to Octavarium too)

also ninja'd  :P

Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: Jinx on January 17, 2017, 07:11:49 PM
I reckon its Panic Attack then by what has been said so far
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: IDontNotDoThings on January 17, 2017, 07:12:59 PM
I reckon its Panic Attack then by what has been said so far

What makes you say that?
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: Jinx on January 17, 2017, 07:30:25 PM
Well from what bosk said:

It has been played recently - 2015 on the 30th anniversary tour
It has been played fairly often since release - in fact according to setlist.fm it has been played each year since 05 (bar a 4 year window between 2011 and 2014)
Its a crowd favourite

Also he was listening to it at 3:58 (this one is a grasp at straws  :facepalm: )

EDIT: Its also a "monster" track in that its just damn brutal and heavy

2nd EDIT: Maybe bosk listened to PA, Never Enough and Sacrificed Sons (thats 8VM album order) before moving onto Epica - what length do those 3 songs equal?
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: jsbru on January 17, 2017, 07:37:40 PM
Okay, so neither SOC or ITNOG have been played live, the next album back in alphabetical order is Systematic Chaos, but neither TMOLS or ITPOE have been played live by Mangini either.

Then there's SDOIT, which is greater than 25 minutes.

Then there's Octavarium, in which neither SS or the title track have been played live by Mangini.

Then Metropolis II, which means it could be TDOE, OLT, TSCO or FF, & being one of DT's most highly regarded albums, I find it hard to believe that bosk wouldn't have this on his computer.

He would have to be listening to the end of TDOE when he posted, but it does fall within what's possible with that time frame.  Of the four listed, it's probably the most "monster."  All four would be unusual as openers, for different reasons.  And any song from that album has been played enough that it probably wouldn't catch your eye at first.

However, OLT has not been played with Mangini yet.  It really depends on whether he posted when he just started listening to Epica, or whether he posted sometime into that album.

Anyhow, we don't know what albums he has on his work computer, and a lot of otherwise good guesses come at/near the ends of albums (Scarred, Trial of Tears, BAI).  Of course, two of those are from albums that start with "A", so if that's a clue, it's not much of a clue at all.  :D
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: jsbru on January 17, 2017, 07:41:50 PM
Anyway, I'm not asking for more clues, because to narrow it down from here would simply give it away.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: Jinx on January 17, 2017, 07:42:45 PM
Bosk can you please tell me, when the curtain drops and the band starts, will the first thing we hear be a 7 second bass intro?
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: jsbru on January 17, 2017, 07:49:30 PM

That leaves TDOE & FF. Personally speaking, I don't think Finally Free would work well as an opener at all, so, like I said before
My bets on TDOE.


That would fill the "it's already been guessed" category.  But the other two possibilities were also already guessed.  So that one doesn't narrow it down, either.

I'd say your guess has to be the odds-on favorite at this point, though.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: erwinrafael on January 17, 2017, 07:51:16 PM
Nope.  My work computer has Windows Media Player.  I have not modified the settings.  It sorts by artist, then album within the artist, alphabetically.

I have never listened to When Dream and Day Unite at work.

Good questions.  :tup

That's the default WMP setting? I thought it is just alphabetical by albums regardless of the artist, which is how my WMP runs. :lol
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: TAC on January 17, 2017, 07:54:06 PM
That leaves TDOE & FF. Personally speaking, I don't think Finally Free would work well as an opener at all, so, like I said before
My bets on TDOE.

Remember Bosk also thought that about the opener as well.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: jsbru on January 17, 2017, 07:56:44 PM
Yeah, but TDOE would also be weird as an opener for the same reason Ytse Jam would.  Opening the set without the full band.  You see that name and at first think "of course, they've played that a lot," but it might not sink in that it's an instrumental until someone makes you look at it again.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: TAC on January 17, 2017, 07:59:49 PM
What clue leads you to believe it could be an instrumental? Ytsejam is not what I consider a "monster" track.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: jsbru on January 17, 2017, 08:03:41 PM
What clue leads you to believe it could be an instrumental? Ytsejam is not what I consider a "monster" track.

No clue...it's just a coincidence that my interpretation of the existing clues (rightly or wrongly) has lead me to two different instrumentals.

And then any instrumental would also qualify it for being unusual as an opener, so it's specifically (but not exclusively) consistent with that clue.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: Jinx on January 17, 2017, 08:06:33 PM
So if bosk was listening to PA then carried on through NE and SS that is 25 minutes give or take a second.

I'm saying its Panic Attack
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: IDontNotDoThings on January 17, 2017, 08:23:37 PM
Anyhow, we don't know what albums he has on his work computer, and a lot of otherwise good guesses come at/near the ends of albums (Scarred, Trial of Tears, BAI).  Of course, two of those are from albums that start with "A", so if that's a clue, it's not much of a clue at all.  :D

Actually, WMP doesn't count a's or the's as words when alphabetising, so A Dramatic Turn Of Events would be listed under "D". Pretty much everything else you said still applies though.

Nope.  My work computer has Windows Media Player.  I have not modified the settings.  It sorts by artist, then album within the artist, alphabetically.

I have never listened to When Dream and Day Unite at work.

Good questions.  :tup

That's the default WMP setting? I thought it is just alphabetical by albums regardless of the artist, which is how my WMP runs. :lol

It goes Artist (Alphabetical) > Album (Alphabetical) > Track (Chronological), so for example:

Dream Theater > Train Of Thought > Stream Of Consciousness
Dream Theater > Train Of Thought > In The Name Of God
Dream Theater > When Dream & Day Unite > A Fortune In Lies
Dream Theater > When Dream & Day Unite > Status Seeker
Dream Theater > When Dream & Day Unite > The Ytse Jam
Dream Theater > When Dream & Day Unite > The Killing Hand
Dream Theater > When Dream & Day Unite > Light Fuse & Get Away
Dream Theater > When Dream & Day Unite > Afterlife
Dream Theater > When Dream & Day Unite > TOWHTSTS
Dream Theater > When Dream & Day Unite > Only A Matter Of Time
Epica > Consign To Oblivion > Hunab K'u (A New Age Dawns, Prologue)
Epica > Consign To Oblivion > Dance Of Fate

etc.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: IDontNotDoThings on January 17, 2017, 08:38:24 PM
Also worth noting:
There is an instrumental.  It is not Bombay Vandaloo.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: Prog Snob on January 17, 2017, 08:49:57 PM
They're opening with Showdown.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: bosk1 on January 17, 2017, 08:57:13 PM
Anyhow, we don't know what albums he has on his work computer, and a lot of otherwise good guesses come at/near the ends of albums (Scarred, Trial of Tears, BAI).  Of course, two of those are from albums that start with "A", so if that's a clue, it's not much of a clue at all.  :D

Actually, WMP doesn't count a's or the's as words when alphabetising, so A Dramatic Turn Of Events would be listed under "D". Pretty much everything else you said still applies though.

Nope.  My work computer has Windows Media Player.  I have not modified the settings.  It sorts by artist, then album within the artist, alphabetically.

I have never listened to When Dream and Day Unite at work.

Good questions.  :tup

That's the default WMP setting? I thought it is just alphabetical by albums regardless of the artist, which is how my WMP runs. :lol

It goes Artist (Alphabetical) > Album (Alphabetical) > Track (Chronological), so for example:

Dream Theater > Train Of Thought > Stream Of Consciousness
Dream Theater > Train Of Thought > In The Name Of God
Dream Theater > When Dream & Day Unite > A Fortune In Lies
Dream Theater > When Dream & Day Unite > Status Seeker
Dream Theater > When Dream & Day Unite > The Ytse Jam
Dream Theater > When Dream & Day Unite > The Killing Hand
Dream Theater > When Dream & Day Unite > Light Fuse & Get Away
Dream Theater > When Dream & Day Unite > Afterlife
Dream Theater > When Dream & Day Unite > TOWHTSTS
Dream Theater > When Dream & Day Unite > Only A Matter Of Time
Epica > Consign To Oblivion > Hunab K'u (A New Age Dawns, Prologue)
Epica > Consign To Oblivion > Dance Of Fate

etc.

That is correct.  So knowing that WDADU is not in the running, but it is an album that is later in the alphabet, that would narrow it down.  Again, assuming that that is what I was hinting at...  ;)
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: fischermasamune on January 17, 2017, 11:40:45 PM
Bosk, were you listening to WDADRU by any chance?
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: IDontNotDoThings on January 17, 2017, 11:47:22 PM
They haven't played TOWHTSTS, OAMOT or TLF with Mangini, & Metropolis is already part of I&W, so he couldn't have been.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: sfam2112 on January 17, 2017, 11:57:40 PM
or TLF with Mangini

Well, just once. :)
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: IDontNotDoThings on January 17, 2017, 11:59:52 PM
or TLF with Mangini

Well, just once. :)

Shit, you're right...  :-\
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: MirrorMask on January 18, 2017, 01:09:09 AM
Damn now I'm getting my hopes up for Panic Attack  :biggrin:

Anyway, this guessing game is fun but I don't really wanna find out. For sure Panic Attack is an unusual but effective way to start up the gig, I was imaging a sudden spotlight on Petrucci for the initial riff od Dark Eternal Night but also the spotlight on Myung for the bass intro would be cool!
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: w_marano on January 18, 2017, 06:37:28 AM
Damn now I'm getting my hopes up for Panic Attack  :biggrin:

Anyway, this guessing game is fun but I don't really wanna find out. For sure Panic Attack is an unusual but effective way to start up the gig, I was imaging a sudden spotlight on Petrucci for the initial riff od Dark Eternal Night but also the spotlight on Myung for the bass intro would be cool!

My bet goes to Panic Attack too!
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: Laughingplace56 on January 18, 2017, 06:40:05 AM
IF the hint was that Epica would come up alphabetically after DT, and the album's are sorted the way erwinrafael said, War/Test would fit the 25 min space (assuming bosk doesn't have SC, ToT or WDADU on his work computer). TTTSTA-Losing Time is ~25min.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: Jinx on January 18, 2017, 06:55:08 AM
Guys its Panic Attack.
PA > NE > SS = 25 mins
Instead of Octavarium he went to Epica. (Epic)a.

Its Panic Attack.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: MirrorMask on January 18, 2017, 07:06:00 AM
Imagine if the setlist, while final at the moment it was shared with Bosk, went under some revisions and at the last minute they decided to change the opener, making all this speculation useless  ;D
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: Eldomm on January 18, 2017, 08:04:08 AM
Why everyone is excluding Bosk has Train of Thought in his PC? And, why is no one mentioning Endless Sacrifice?
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: DarkChestOfWonders on January 18, 2017, 08:10:15 AM
That's a really good question.  And related to that, why are people insisting on albums that the clues have eliminated?  Based on the clues, I have it narrowed down to 2 likely albums, which narrows it down to around 3 songs. 
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: ToT-147 on January 18, 2017, 12:09:59 PM
EDIT: Actually, Octavarium HAS been played live with Mangini, so this could actually still be a possibility!

What?... No, it hasn't...



Ok.. So:

After reading the last pages, I came up with the conclusion that none of that, except maybe one thing, changed what I thought months ago:

I'd say it's between Trial of Tears, TDEN, BAI, IT or Finally Free..

Back then I discarded three songs, because: I didn't "feel that ES, LNF and Outcry are too much of "crowd pleasers"..." Now I'm not sure if I should have discarded all of those..

Because of this: the one thing it's different now is that we could narrow that list down to one song, but only if the hint about Epica is right.. Meaning: if the clue is actually about the alphabetical order in which he was listening both bands.. Although even the actual clue about this is confusing.. He said "I have never listened to When Dream and Day Unite at work." But that doesn't mean he has every DT album but that one.. That only means he doesn't have WDADU.. Moreover, even if he does have TOT on his computer, then that doesn't necessarily mean he has all the songs from it..

I guess we'll have to wait.. Just 12 days to go!..
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: Jinx on January 18, 2017, 12:50:12 PM
Having listened to ES, I'm just not sure it has enough energy in the intro to open  :-\
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: jsbru on January 18, 2017, 03:24:20 PM
IF the hint was that Epica would come up alphabetically after DT, and the album's are sorted the way erwinrafael said, War/Test would fit the 25 min space (assuming bosk doesn't have SC, ToT or WDADU on his work computer). TTTSTA-Losing Time is ~25min.

But the song is less than 25 minutes.

I suppose we could re-kindle the debate as to whether 6DOIT  is one song or eight.  But I don't think Bosk really wants that.  :D
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: jsbru on January 18, 2017, 03:25:38 PM
Guys its Panic Attack.
PA > NE > SS = 25 mins
Instead of Octavarium he went to Epica. (Epic)a.

Its Panic Attack.

That reasoning seems totally arbitrary.  It could basically be any song in their library if he was skipping songs like that.  In which case, the "hint" would have no meaning at all.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: jsbru on January 18, 2017, 03:27:10 PM
Why everyone is excluding Bosk has Train of Thought in his PC? And, why is no one mentioning Endless Sacrifice?

Already been discussed.  Only two songs on ToT were played with MM, and one of them, As I Am, has been used before as an opener.

ES was the other, and was one of my top guesses, but it's nowhere near the end of that album, so Epica would not flow from that.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: bosk1 on January 18, 2017, 03:37:02 PM
I haven't worked out the timing.  But if, hypothetically, I was toward the end of that song when I first posted that I was listening to "the song," and hypothetically, that album is loaded on my computer, and I then let the rest of the album play, and then it went to Epica because there are no other Dream Theater albums after "T," that would work, wouldn't it?  Hypothetically.

And, FYI, I know that song is one of the ones DCOW was considering.  But I can tell you that I have not specifically discussed the set list with her.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: jsbru on January 18, 2017, 03:40:42 PM
I mean, it's somewhat arbitrary because we don't know exactly what albums Bosk has on his work computer, and "monster" could mean a number of different things, but a lot of you guys are guessing songs that have conclusively been eliminated (or at least made extremely unlikely) by other, more finite clues.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: jsbru on January 18, 2017, 03:47:14 PM
I haven't worked out the timing.  But if, hypothetically, I was toward the end of that song when I first posted that I was listening to "the song," and hypothetically, that album is loaded on my computer, and I then let the rest of the album play, and then it went to Epica because there are no other Dream Theater albums after "T," that would work, wouldn't it?  Hypothetically.

And, FYI, I know that song is one of the ones DCOW was considering.  But I can tell you that I have not specifically discussed the set list with her.

ES would not work out with that timing, even at the very end of the song.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: IDontNotDoThings on January 18, 2017, 05:12:46 PM
EDIT: Actually, Octavarium HAS been played live with Mangini, so this could actually still be a possibility!

What?... No, it hasn't...

Oh... setlist.fm counts covers as playings of the song.  :facepalm:

I haven't worked out the timing.  But if, hypothetically, I was toward the end of that song when I first posted that I was listening to "the song," and hypothetically, that album is loaded on my computer, and I then let the rest of the album play, and then it went to Epica because there are no other Dream Theater albums after "T," that would work, wouldn't it?  Hypothetically.

And, FYI, I know that song is one of the ones DCOW was considering.  But I can tell you that I have not specifically discussed the set list with her.

ES would not work out with that timing, even at the very end of the song.

In The Name Of God 14:16|14:16
Stream Of Consciousness 11:16|25:32
Vacant 2:57|28:29
Honour Thy Father 10:12|38:41
Endless Sacrifice 11:24|50:05

So if bosk was listening to Endless Sacrifice, it'd be a minimum of 38:41 & a maximum of 50:05 before the album would be over. I.E. more than 25 minutes.



Okay, so here's what we know:
- It's a monster track
- It's a crowd pleaser
- It hasn't been opened with, but it's still not unusual to be played
- It has been played live by Mangini
- It comes in the last 25 minutes of whatever album it's on (this could mean live albums as well)
- Albums that come later in the alphabet are more likely
- It's not from WD&DU, I&W (duh), BC&SL or DT12
- There is an instrumental in the set, but we don't know if it's the opener

Right now I'm constructing a list of possibilities, I'll get back to this thread later.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: Jinx on January 18, 2017, 05:45:16 PM
Right so lets someone compile a list of songs from the album Octavarium onwards (alphabetically) that they have played with MM. And lets go from there.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: bosk1 on January 18, 2017, 05:47:04 PM
....and Bosk1 has not discussed the set list with DCOW.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: Jinx on January 18, 2017, 06:08:34 PM
....and Bosk1 has not discussed the set list with DCOW.

Call me stupid but who or what is DCOW?  ???

EDIT dont worry I've worked it out haha
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: Rushspirit2112 on January 18, 2017, 06:24:54 PM
I'm thinking it's BAI because it's in the last 25 minutes of the album, its been played with Mangini, but it's not really a monster track that I thought of.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: IDontNotDoThings on January 18, 2017, 06:25:44 PM
Based on these hints:
- It has been played live by Mangini
- It comes in the last 25 minutes of whatever album it's on (this could mean live albums as well)
- It's not from WD&DU, I&W (duh), BC&SL or DT12



Awake
- Lie
- Lifting Shadows Off A Dream
- Scarred
- Space-Dye Vest

Breaking The Fourth Wall
- Overture 1928
- Strange Deja Vu

A Dramatic Turn Of Events
- Outcry
- Far From Heaven
- Breaking All Illusions
- Beneath The Surface

Dream Theater 12 (I can't remember if bosk deconfirmed DT12 or not, so just in case he didn't...)
- Along For The Ride
- Illumination Theory

Falling Into Infinity
- Trial Of Tears

Live At Luna Park
- Build Me Up, Break Me Down
- Caught In A Web

Metropolis 2
- The Dance Of Eternity
- The Spirit Carries On
- Finally Free
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: Rushspirit2112 on January 18, 2017, 06:29:19 PM
Bosk, does Outcry count on that list because the song does not start in the last 25 minutes?
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: IDontNotDoThings on January 18, 2017, 06:33:17 PM
He hasn't denied the possibilty...

if, hypothetically, I was toward the end of that song when I first posted that I was listening to "the song," and hypothetically, that album is loaded on my computer, and I then let the rest of the album play, and then it went to Epica
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: Jinx on January 18, 2017, 07:02:58 PM
Didnt we come to the conclusion it was an album toward the end of the alphabet?


Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: cramx3 on January 18, 2017, 07:10:46 PM
I'm pretty sure Bosk mentioned at one point that songs in this thread that were mentioned will be played.  So I'm too lazy to do this, but if you cross reference the list from IDontNotDoThings with what other posters have guessed, it could limit this list. 

AKA I doubt anyone has guessed Space-Dye Vest, Beneath the Surface, Along for the Ride, or Build Me Up, Break Me Down.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: IDontNotDoThings on January 18, 2017, 07:43:25 PM
Didnt we come to the conclusion it was an album toward the end of the alphabet?

I tried this with every studio & live album DT've released & all the albums in the 2nd half of the alphabet don't have songs in their last 25 minutes that fulfill the criteria.

I'm pretty sure Bosk mentioned at one point that songs in this thread that were mentioned will be played.  So I'm too lazy to do this, but if you cross reference the list from IDontNotDoThings with what other posters have guessed, it could limit this list. 

AKA I doubt anyone has guessed Space-Dye Vest, Beneath the Surface, Along for the Ride, or Build Me Up, Break Me Down.

I looked for that post all around the thread but I couldn't find it. I'm not saying it doesn't exist (because it probably does), but if you could link the post to me, we could find out for certain.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: Prog Snob on January 18, 2017, 07:48:16 PM
Based on these hints:
- It has been played live by Mangini
- It comes in the last 25 minutes of whatever album it's on (this could mean live albums as well)
- It's not from WD&DU, I&W (duh), BC&SL or DT12



Awake
- Lie
- Lifting Shadows Off A Dream
- Scarred
- Space-Dye Vest

Breaking The Fourth Wall
- Overture 1928
- Strange Deja Vu

A Dramatic Turn Of Events
- Outcry
- Far From Heaven
- Breaking All Illusions
- Beneath The Surface

Dream Theater 12 (I can't remember if bosk deconfirmed DT12 or not, so just in case he didn't...)
- Along For The Ride
- Illumination Theory

Falling Into Infinity
- Trial Of Tears

Live At Luna Park
- Build Me Up, Break Me Down
- Caught In A Web

Metropolis 2
- The Dance Of Eternity
- The Spirit Carries On
- Finally Free

If this is still about the opening song choice, don't forget he said it was a song he said was an unusual choice to open the show with.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: IDontNotDoThings on January 18, 2017, 08:03:26 PM
I'm pretty sure Bosk mentioned at one point that songs in this thread that were mentioned will be played.  So I'm too lazy to do this, but if you cross reference the list from IDontNotDoThings with what other posters have guessed, it could limit this list. 

AKA I doubt anyone has guessed Space-Dye Vest, Beneath the Surface, Along for the Ride, or Build Me Up, Break Me Down.

I looked for that post all around the thread but I couldn't find it. I'm not saying it doesn't exist (because it probably does), but if you could link the post to me, we could find out for certain.

I found it (I think)

Well, I've stayed away from further hints for the time being because, for the DT12 song, I've given you a 50/50 shot, and for 3 other songs, I've given enough hints to have given those away to the point that, although I haven't confirmed it, all three have been guessed correctly by people in this thread.  So, 4 non-I&W songs have been hinted at and guessed.

I will say again, though, for the vast majority of fans, even if you somehow found nothing else to like in the rest of the set, I&W and the encore alone will make you VERY happy you went.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: RaiseTheKnife on January 18, 2017, 08:12:31 PM
Gee, we're still debating whether or not Illumination Theory is the setlist opener?
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: IDontNotDoThings on January 18, 2017, 08:19:26 PM
Gee, we're still debating whether or not Illumination Theory is the setlist opener?

Again, I don't remember whether or not bosk outright denied that the opener would be from DT12, I'm just putting it on the list to cover my bases in case that isn't the case.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: RaiseTheKnife on January 18, 2017, 08:56:07 PM
Yeah, don't mind me.  We'll all find out soon enough in a matter of days.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: IDontNotDoThings on January 18, 2017, 08:57:43 PM
With the  help of the "it's been mentioned in the thread" hint, I've narrowed it down further:

- Scarred [194]
- Outcry [73]
- Far From Heaven [29]
- Breaking All Illusions [192]
- Along For The Ride [97]
- Illumination Theory [93]
- Trial Of Tears [261]
- Caught In A Web [226]
- The Dance Of Eternity [397]
- The Spirit Carries On [453]
- Finally Free [282]

The number in brackets is how many times it's been played live according to setlist.fm, so it's possible to determine which are crowd-favourites

FFH, AFTR & TSCO are unlikely to be considered "monster tracks", but since it's subjective I'll leave them on the list anyway.




& one more thing, I dug around the DT album ranking thread for a bit & found this:
Now that there are 12 and I have had #12 long enough to be somewhat objective about it:

1.  Six Degrees
2.  Scenes
3.  A Dramatic Turn of Events
4.  DT12
5.  I&W
6.  Awake
7.  Octavarium
8.  Systematic Chaos
9.  TOT
10.  FII
11.  Black Clouds
12.  WDADU

The main thing I notice about this is that most of the later-alphabet albums (WD&DU, TOT, SC, 8VM) are all in the bottom half of his rankings. The only exception is Six Degrees, which is #1. Take this as you will.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: erwinrafael on January 18, 2017, 09:06:46 PM
TDOE is basically the Metropolis instrumental on steroids, so it is Images and Words Beyond. :P

Still sticking with my The Great Debate prediction although it's very unlikely. :lol
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: ToT-147 on January 18, 2017, 09:25:21 PM
Right so lets someone compile a list of songs from the album Octavarium onwards (alphabetically) that they have played with MM. And lets go from there.

First: we already have.. Second: you're pointing out only two hints out of the several Bosk has giving us, and one of them is wrong: he didn't say the song is from 8V onwards.. If you're deducting that basing on the Epica clue, then you should attend to this comment of his:

So knowing that WDADU is not in the running, but it is an album that is later in the alphabet, that would narrow it down.  Again, assuming that that is what I was hinting at...  ;)

This and the word "hipotetical" repeated enfatically in recent comments imply that we might be wrong about that hint from the beginning..

Finally: I think, as @ProgSnob stated before, that the songs' list @IDontNotDoThings made doesn't fit the hints' list he settled earlier:

Okay, so here's what we know:
- It's a monster track
- It's a crowd pleaser
- It hasn't been opened with, but it's still not unusual to be played
- It has been played live by Mangini

- It comes in the last 25 minutes of whatever album it's on (this could mean live albums as well) PROBABLY
- Albums that come later in the alphabet are more likely PROBABLY
- It's not from WD&DU, I&W (duh), BC&SL or DT12
- There is an instrumental in the set, but we don't know if it's the opener

*The bold, the "probably"s and the strikethrough are mine..

In my case, I've already write down the songs that satisfy all those conditions, although giving more importance to the bold hints and none to the "PROBABLY" hints..

IF the Epica hint is as 'we' think it is -and so, Bosk would only be trying to confuse us by saying that is only a possibility-, then the options of my list would be reduced to only five songs divided in two groups, each one of them with one different condition:

Trial of Tears
Finally Free                             [if the song is at the last 25 minute of the album]
Breaking All Illusions               
Illumination Theory

Endless Sacrifice                     [if the song is from the last DT album, alphabetically]



Still sticking with my The Great Debate prediction although it's very unlikely. :lol

That song is discarded if not for the "alphabetical order" thing, then for the crowd pleaser condition..
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: bosk1 on January 18, 2017, 10:36:57 PM
My goodnessm  Y'all need to learn your alphabet.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: erwinrafael on January 18, 2017, 11:24:28 PM
Still sticking with my The Great Debate prediction although it's very unlikely. :lol

That song is discarded if not for the "alphabetical order" thing, then for the crowd pleaser condition..

Yeah, except it comes in 25 minutes before the end of the Score DVD Disc 2, which, for all we know, bosk could have ripped the audio of.  :lol
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: IDontNotDoThings on January 18, 2017, 11:46:05 PM
I wasn't considering DVD's, but I find it a little unlikely that bosk would rip the audio from the DVDs. Still possible, but somewhat unlikely.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: IDontNotDoThings on January 18, 2017, 11:49:58 PM
My goodnessm

I'm going to start saying this from now on.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: jsbru on January 19, 2017, 01:18:53 AM
Based on these hints:
- It has been played live by Mangini
- It comes in the last 25 minutes of whatever album it's on (this could mean live albums as well)
- It's not from WD&DU, I&W (duh), BC&SL or DT12



Awake
- Lie
- Lifting Shadows Off A Dream
- Scarred
- Space-Dye Vest

Breaking The Fourth Wall
- Overture 1928
- Strange Deja Vu

A Dramatic Turn Of Events
- Outcry
- Far From Heaven
- Breaking All Illusions
- Beneath The Surface

Dream Theater 12 (I can't remember if bosk deconfirmed DT12 or not, so just in case he didn't...)
- Along For The Ride
- Illumination Theory

Falling Into Infinity
- Trial Of Tears

Live At Luna Park
- Build Me Up, Break Me Down
- Caught In A Web

Metropolis 2
- The Dance Of Eternity
- The Spirit Carries On
- Finally Free

I already pretty much did this a few pages back.  DT12 is effectively eliminated, because we know there's only one song, either STR/TBP, from that album in the setlist, and of course they have never played either of those live with MM.

It also has to be a "monster" track, so FFH, BTS, SDV and LSOAD are pretty much eliminated.

Otherwise, that's pretty much the same list I came up with, other than I didn't factor in the live albums, which still could be possible I guess.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: jsbru on January 19, 2017, 01:24:41 AM
Still sticking with my The Great Debate prediction although it's very unlikely. :lol

That's still not a terrible guess, because out of the 3 tracks they've played parts of with MM from that album, it's the only one that isn't eliminated outright by other clues.

I just don't really think that's ever been a "crowd pleaser."
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: Tomislav95 on January 19, 2017, 04:08:57 AM
Can someone tell me why it cant' be Illumination Theory?
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: IDontNotDoThings on January 19, 2017, 04:19:29 AM
Can someone tell me why it cant' be Illumination Theory?

IT was on both mine & ToT's lists, who's saying it can't be?

But if jsbru is correct, bosk confirmed that there was only one DT12 song & it was TBP or STR, neither of which could be the opener because they've never been played live before.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: Tomislav95 on January 19, 2017, 04:26:06 AM
Can someone tell me why it cant' be Illumination Theory?

IT was on both mine & ToT's lists, who's saying it can't be?

But if jsbru is correct, bosk confirmed that there was only one DT12 song & it was TBP or STR, neither of which could be the opener because they've never been played live before.
Oh ok.
I just thought if he had artists sorted alphabetically and albums chronologically (and no TA loaded) IT would be last song.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: Jinx on January 19, 2017, 04:37:42 AM
My goodnessm  Y'all need to learn your alphabet.

I think more hints are needed   :facepalm:
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: IDontNotDoThings on January 19, 2017, 04:39:25 AM
Can someone tell me why it cant' be Illumination Theory?

IT was on both mine & ToT's lists, who's saying it can't be?

But if jsbru is correct, bosk confirmed that there was only one DT12 song & it was TBP or STR, neither of which could be the opener because they've never been played live before.
Oh ok.
I just thought if he had artists sorted alphabetically and albums chronologically (and no TA loaded) IT would be last song.

Albums are actually sorted alphabetically as well on Windows Media Player, so WD&DU would be the last album & OAMOT would be the last song.

That said, bosk said he doesn't listen to WD&DU on his work computer & if you trace back alphabetically & only count songs in the last 25 minutes of their album, then eliminate songs they haven't played the MM, & you get my first list. Then eliminate songs people haven't guessed & you get my second list.

Also jsbru, I can't seem to find the quote from bosk saying that TBP/STR was the only song from DT12 to be played, could you link to that in the thread? Thanks in advance.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: IDontNotDoThings on January 19, 2017, 04:43:07 AM
My goodnessm  Y'all need to learn your alphabet.

I think more hints are needed   :facepalm:

A comes before B
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: Jinx on January 19, 2017, 04:59:12 AM
Yeah but people are still suggesting IT and FF and the such. DT is out, MPt2 is out, basically any album title in the first half of the alphabet (at least) are out.

If the albums are towards the latter of the alphabet then we've got 8VM, TOT, SC, 6DOIT. That leaves:
TROAE, These Walls, Panic Attack
As I Am, ES
Forsaken, CM, TDEN
WIMH, TTTSTA

Personally I'm thinking we are getting the wrong end of that Epica clue because assuming that the album has played out in full none of those songs match that particular criteria.
I actually think Panic Attack most fits the criteria bosk has given, but as I said I think we need more clues.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: IDontNotDoThings on January 19, 2017, 05:03:50 AM
1000th reply  ;D

Personally I'm thinking we are getting the wrong end of that Epica clue because assuming that the album has played out in full none of those songs match that particular criteria.

I was just thinking about this, but else could the Epica clue refer to? Bosk said that it had nothing to do with song titles or lyrics, only timing, & that I was on the right track asking him if he had an ELP album. I'm not sure how many other things that could mean, but I suppose it's still up for interpretation.  :justjen :corn
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: Jinx on January 19, 2017, 05:15:07 AM
1000th reply  ;D

Personally I'm thinking we are getting the wrong end of that Epica clue because assuming that the album has played out in full none of those songs match that particular criteria.

I was just thinking about this, but else could the Epica clue refer to? Bosk said that it had nothing to do with song titles or lyrics, only timing, & that I was on the right track asking him if he had an ELP album. I'm not sure how many other things that could mean, but I suppose it's still up for interpretation.  :justjen :corn

I got pretty shot down for this earlier on in the thread but IF bosk listened to Panic Attack, then went on to listen to Never Enough and Sacrificed Sons - that totals 25 mins. Now, the next song on that album is obviously Octavarium - an epic. Its pretty far fetched but its all to do with timing. Plus Panic Attack fits all of the other criteria as I said.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: fischermasamune on January 19, 2017, 06:27:54 AM
Perhaps Bosk is using a version of Windows Media Player which puts The Astonishing under the letter T. I don't know what would be a monster track of the disc 2, so if the the disc 1 was the last album, the "monster" track A Tempting Offer fits in the description.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: ToT-147 on January 19, 2017, 06:51:49 AM
Yeah, basically there are two clues that aren't clear.. One is that the song is "a monster track".. IIRC Bosk never clarified what this means... i.e., if it means necessarily "epic": at least *I* took it that way, because of his reaction when ppl was mentioning songs that spoke about monsters or was "monstrous" somehow" and he said "now you're being silly" or something like that.. Because I take monster-track as epic-track (also because of the MM's tweet, although Bosk could have easily used that to mislead us), I discard a lot of songs that fit the other criteria (Panic Attack, Caught in a Web, Peruvian Skies, TSCO, etc)..

And the other is the Epica thing.. Again, if this hint is what all are saying it is (last 25 minute of albums at the end of the alphabet), then that leaves no songs at all if we consider the "played live with Mangini" and the "epic track" conditions... Well, actually, there is one, but we'd have to think that he doesn't have TOT, TA, SC, SDOIT and 8V on his work computer.. Song would be Finally Free (or TSCO, OLT or TDoE if we don't think the song is an epic and it could be an instrumental)..

PS: note that earlier on in this very thread Bosk said that he thought ANtR was played live with Mangini.... so he could easily be thinking that they played let's say ItNoG or Sacrificed Sons with MM and then any of these could be the song.. :lol

Still sticking with my The Great Debate prediction although it's very unlikely. :lol

That song is discarded if not for the "alphabetical order" thing, then for the crowd pleaser condition..

Yeah, except it comes in 25 minutes before the end of the Score DVD Disc 2, which, for all we know, bosk could have ripped the audio of.  :lol

I don't know about that, but even in that case, Train of Thought would come after Score.. But if you're right, and he doesn't have TOT on his computer, then the song is definitely TGD... because, after all, the "crowd pleaser" condition is the more subjective I suppose..
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: Jinx on January 19, 2017, 07:23:55 AM
The thing about TGD is... they havent played it a lot. Bosk said the song in question has been played recently and quite frequently since release too.

I have no idea really, we seem to be going in circles. Think I'm gonna back out and leave you guys to it!
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: Rushspirit2112 on January 19, 2017, 08:22:53 AM
What if the Opener is "Our New World"? It's been played with Mangini, Last 25 minutes of the album, a crowd pleaser, and been played quite frequently since it's release.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: erwinrafael on January 19, 2017, 08:56:43 AM
Still sticking with my The Great Debate prediction although it's very unlikely. :lol

That song is discarded if not for the "alphabetical order" thing, then for the crowd pleaser condition..

Yeah, except it comes in 25 minutes before the end of the Score DVD Disc 2, which, for all we know, bosk could have ripped the audio of.  :lol

I don't know about that, but even in that case, Train of Thought would come after Score.. But if you're right, and he doesn't have TOT on his computer, then the song is definitely TGD... because, after all, the "crowd pleaser" condition is the more subjective I suppose..

Don't take my prediction seriously. When I made it, I thought bosk's Media Player is like mine which is sequenced alphabetically by album regardless of Artist (Epica has an album also titled Score).  :lol
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: hefdaddy42 on January 19, 2017, 09:27:30 AM
What if the Opener is "Our New World"? It's been played with Mangini, Last 25 minutes of the album, a crowd pleaser, and been played quite frequently since it's release.
I don't think that can be considered a monster track, by any definition of the term.

You guys are so cute with all of this.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: erwinrafael on January 19, 2017, 09:50:35 AM
If I would have my way, though, DT would do an Images and Words Overture instrumental as intro. But that is asking too much, especially since I will never ever see them live.  :lol
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: bosk1 on January 19, 2017, 10:15:55 AM
What if the Opener is "Our New World"? It's been played with Mangini, Last 25 minutes of the album, a crowd pleaser, and been played quite frequently since it's release.
I don't think that can be considered a monster track, by any definition of the term.

Not to mention, the alphabet.  But people seem to be completely disregarding that anyway, so...  :dunno:
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: jsbru on January 19, 2017, 10:20:39 AM
What if the Opener is "Our New World"? It's been played with Mangini, Last 25 minutes of the album, a crowd pleaser, and been played quite frequently since it's release.

I had thought about that, actually.  It fits most of the hard criteria, but it's a stretch to think of it as a "monster" track (it's shorter, somewhat simple musically, and it's uplifting), and it doesn't seem all that interesting or unusual as an opener--at least to me.

Also, as someone just mentioned, supposedly WMP excludes opening articles while sorting albums, so TA would be at the start of his DT list.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: jsbru on January 19, 2017, 11:08:46 AM
....and Bosk1 has not discussed the set list with DCOW.

So because Bosk had to repeat this, I'm guessing this is a clue of some sort, but I can't really figure it out at this point.  The only song specifically alluded to by DCOW was ES, in that she was agreeing that it shouldn't be ruled out.  So without discussing the setlist with her, that's the only song he could have known she was considering.

ES fits all the criteria but the Epica one.  Maybe it's not safe to assume Bosk simply let his playlist play naturally.  Maybe he skips a few of the songs in the latter half of ToT.  :-\
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: jsbru on January 19, 2017, 11:14:00 AM
Also jsbru, I can't seem to find the quote from bosk saying that TBP/STR was the only song from DT12 to be played, could you link to that in the thread? Thanks in advance.

My recollection was that it was more explicit, but going back to check, it's more implied.  Twice he referred to STR/TBP as "the DT 12 song" in replies 742 and 826. (emphasis added).

I suppose that could mean "the DT 12 song that we were talking about, excluding the other DT 12 song that I haven't hinted at specifically," but it seems unlikely.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: hefdaddy42 on January 19, 2017, 11:53:49 AM
....and Bosk1 has not discussed the set list with DCOW.

So because Bosk had to repeat this, I'm guessing this is a clue of some sort
Yes, I would think so.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: bosk1 on January 19, 2017, 12:41:20 PM
....and Bosk1 has not discussed the set list with DCOW.

So because Bosk had to repeat this, I'm guessing this is a clue of some sort, but I can't really figure it out at this point.  The only song specifically alluded to by DCOW was ES, in that she was agreeing that it shouldn't be ruled out.  So without discussing the setlist with her, that's the only song he could have known she was considering.

ES fits all the criteria but the Epica one.  Maybe it's not safe to assume Bosk simply let his playlist play naturally.  Maybe he skips a few of the songs in the latter half of ToT.  :-\

No, it was not a clue.

No, my knowledge of what songs she was considering is not limited to what she posted here.  I know exactly what songs/albums she was considering.  That is exactly where the clues should have led her.  She got it 100% right.

Based on the information you have, ES absolutely fits the criteria for the Epica clue.  Not sure how it doesn't.  TOT is clearly near the end of the alphabet.  A couple of other albums are as well.  Octavarium clearly is not.  I have no idea why this concept is so difficult to grasp.

And, no, I wasn't skipping songs.  You guys couldn't possibly know if I was skipping songs, so it wouldn't be fair for me to say that was a legitimate clue if I had skipped songs and thus made the song order/timing arbitrary.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: Jinx on January 19, 2017, 12:48:24 PM
So it IS ES?

Little fact - the first DT song that I fell in love with and got me hooked!
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: bosk1 on January 19, 2017, 12:50:02 PM
It could be.  It is one of 3 or 4 songs that fit the criteria.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: Jinx on January 19, 2017, 12:52:18 PM
Awwww bosk you meany :(

Out of interest, seeing as though you seem to disregard Octavarium songs as a choice, are we looking at 6DOIT and SC as albums being able to fit criteria too? I'm all confused about it tbh
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: Samsara on January 19, 2017, 01:17:07 PM
*popsintoseewhatsnew*

Bosk doing his bosk thing.  :rollin

*departs*

P.s. bring tour stateside!

Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: jsbru on January 19, 2017, 01:43:46 PM
It could be.  It is one of 3 or 4 songs that fit the criteria.

Well, it's not within 25 minutes of the end of ToT (it's something like 38), so I must be misunderstanding the criteria or relying on some additional false assumption.

Other than that, it seems to fit the criteria perfectly, though.  I had it ranked #2 after TDEN before this whole renewed discussion of alphabetized albums.  I eliminated both because neither are within 25 minutes of the end of the album, despite both albums being close to the end of DT's alphabetized list of albums.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: jsbru on January 19, 2017, 02:11:43 PM
Also, I double-checked.  WMP's default sorting goes:

1. Band name (alphabetically)
2. Album name (alphabetically, excluding leading articles like "A" and "The")
3. Track order on album

So "The Astonishing" would be sorted under "A".  And ADTOE would be sorted under "D".

One curious thing...I don't know what DT12 would show up as.  I don't have that one on any of my computers.  If the album name shows up as blank, does it sort it at the beginning of the list or the end?  I suppose I could be wrong about it being implied that there is only one song from DT12.  But I think it is unlikely anyways for two other reasons.  One, bosk said that there's only one mega-epic, so if IT is the opener, than there's no ACOS, which I kind of think is the encore.  Two, it's somewhat popular, but not necessarily a "crowd pleaser."  And they haven't necessarily played it "a lot."
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: ToT-147 on January 19, 2017, 02:32:37 PM
Ok, after these new incomes, I think we can erase for good the "25 minutes" criteria.. This, as I said before, was never a true hint, since it was never written down by Bosk... it was rather deducted from the fact that he was listening to the song exactly 25 minutes before listening Epica.. But I checked the earlier pages of this thread and realized that there are two more things we (at least the ones who are now debating this stuff) overlooked from the start:

1- Coincidentally or not, Bosk said, before the "I am listening to Epica now", that the duration of the opener is less than 25 minutes. So maybe that unconsciously led us to reaffirm that the "25 minutes" hint was real..

2- And this is hilarious, but user TheAtliator wrote this comment hours before Bosk said that he was listening to the song: <<My guess for opener is Endless Sacrifice. Just imagine a DT concert opening with this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tZPRdN5XCpI>>.. So he could have easily listened to ES by clicking on the link, as actually the same user guessed right after, whether joking or not..


PS: yeah, I'm unemployed and have nothing more to do.. ;D
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: jsbru on January 19, 2017, 02:41:29 PM
The sad thing is that I'm not unemployed.  But I am a bit obsessive about solving puzzles.  Sometimes that helps with my work.  I have spent too much time trying to guess this though!  :D

Anyhow, Bosk said he was not skipping tracks.  So I can't figure it out.  Maybe WMP just doesn't sort the way we think it's sorting.  I'm just going to throw in the towel.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: IDontNotDoThings on January 19, 2017, 03:01:10 PM
Based on the information you have, ES absolutely fits the criteria for the Epica clue.  Not sure how it doesn't.  TOT is clearly near the end of the alphabet.  A couple of other albums are as well.  Octavarium clearly is not.  I have no idea why this concept is so difficult to grasp.

The fact that you're so persistent in saying ES fits the criteria makes me think you either didn't see the post where I calculated the times, or that the Epica hint means something different than what we thought.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: ToT-147 on January 19, 2017, 03:03:39 PM
The sad thing is that I'm not unemployed.  But I am a bit obsessive about solving puzzles.  Sometimes that helps with my work.  I have spent too much time trying to guess this though!  :D

Anyhow, Bosk said he was not skipping tracks.  So I can't figure it out.  Maybe WMP just doesn't sort the way we think it's sorting.  I'm just going to throw in the towel.

 :lol

Yeah, I'm here too because I like puzzles, I was kidding...

About the WMP thing, I checked and mine leaves "The Astonishing" at the start of the list as well (and it also excludes the "A" in "ADToE"), so I think that might be a definitive fact, since I have never changed the setting of the program, and neither Bosk has according to what he said..

And I do have DT12.. It simply comes after ADToE and before FII (oddly enough, the album doesn't show its actual cover but only a black image, like the black album itself)..

So, reorganizing my list once more after this last hint (I assume it must be the last since within almost ten days we'll know not only this song but the entire setlist), I also have only two songs (and I can't see how they can be "3 or 4", again, except he doesn't have TOT and SC on his computer), and they're the same you pointed out earlier.. Although I don't see how the ToT's song is a "crowd pleaser"... on the other hand, we might have the winner in SC..
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: jsbru on January 19, 2017, 03:37:13 PM
Bosk seems to really like Epica, though, but yet he only has 2 of their albums on his work computer.  And no ELP.

It's entirely possible that he just doesn't have a huge collection on there, and that he listens to music in other ways at work more frequently (Spotify, I-tunes, etc.).

If that's the case, it's at least plausible that the last album is MP2:SFAM.  There's two and if you stretch it, 3 songs at the end of that album that could be a good fit.

But didn't I just say I was going to throw in the towel?  :facepalm: :D
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: ToT-147 on January 19, 2017, 03:57:19 PM
Yeah, that's also an option.. I thought about it before.. If we assume he doesn't have every DT album, then the other song that should come around again is the one from 8V..

But the songs on SFaM are more likely somehow to me.. After all, he said "interesting" after I brought to the table those three new songs: two that would be absolutely discarded now (Scarred and TGD) and that one from SFaM..

But didn't I just say I was going to throw in the towel?  :facepalm: :D

Actually I was just thinking this is kind of a cool game.. You realized that when you find yourself enjoying more trying to figure out a song before a bunch of hints rather than knowing which song actually is.. :lol
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: IDontNotDoThings on January 19, 2017, 04:06:13 PM
The only things that throw me off this conclusion are
1) bosk seemed really intent on saying that ES fit the Epica clue somehow
& 2) bosk's favourite DT album (circa 2014) was SDOIT, so I'm not sure why he wouldn't have that album on his work computer
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: Jinx on January 19, 2017, 05:44:06 PM
So, reorganizing my list once more after this last hint (I assume it must be the last since within almost ten days we'll know not only this song but the entire setlist), I also have only two songs (and I can't see how they can be "3 or 4", again, except he doesn't have TOT and SC on his computer), and they're the same you pointed out earlier.. Although I don't see how the ToT's song is a "crowd pleaser"... on the other hand, we might have the winner in SC..

This is the problem I had - I cant find 3 or 4 that fit exactly. Some may fit some criteria, some may fit others.

Anyway, is the song from SC we are guessing at TDEN then? If we have brought it down to those two, ES or TDEN then I am torn to decide which I would rather see anyway!  :metal
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: ToT-147 on January 19, 2017, 05:49:48 PM
The only things that throw me off this conclusion are
1) bosk seemed really intent on saying that ES fit the Epica clue somehow
& 2) bosk's favourite DT album (circa 2014) was SDOIT, so I'm not sure why he wouldn't have that album on his work computer

Well, I discarded SDoIT because the end of the album (and almost half of it) is the title track alone, and he said the song was under 25 minutes, thus discarding -at least for the opener- precisely only that song.. TGD can't be either, because if that's his favorite album, then he should have both albums and not just the first..

Man, I wish they play SOMETHING new from either SDoIT or ToT!..

But you're right.. Is like he wants us to believe is that one, when probably is something else, like SC's or 8V's songs..

Anyway, is the song from SC we are guessing at TDEN then?

Yes... And as for me, I'd say that's the most plausible option.. I remember Bosk was emphatic in saying the song was definitely a monster track..
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: sfam2112 on January 19, 2017, 05:56:41 PM
They're opening with Karn Evil 9  :biggrin:


...or not  :facepalm: :corn
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: Evai on January 19, 2017, 06:03:10 PM
How about they start off with a big RIFF. And then the drums come in like boomdabang. And then the bass player starts like BOOM BOOM BOOM. And then the singer is like Woaaaaah. And then a big piece of chocolate cake appears on the screen behind them, but you can't see because the keyboard player has started going bleepidybloop widdle wow wow
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: Adami on January 19, 2017, 06:05:37 PM
-looks around thread-



















(http://wfny2.shoutitoutdesign.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/12/m8qnbZt.jpg)
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: IDontNotDoThings on January 19, 2017, 06:12:30 PM
Guys... what if...















...they're opening with an Epica cover?
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: Jinx on January 19, 2017, 06:24:40 PM
How about they start off with a big RIFF. And then the drums come in like boomdabang. And then the bass player starts like BOOM BOOM BOOM. And then the singer is like Woaaaaah. And then a big piece of chocolate cake appears on the screen behind them, but you can't see because the keyboard player has started going bleepidybloop widdle wow wow

Go on about the chocolate cake tho  :corn
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: IDontNotDoThings on January 19, 2017, 06:28:38 PM
Guys, I was doing a little more digging around & I found something that might be interesting.

Take a look at how WMP sorts the tracks on my copy of SDOIT:
(http://i.imgur.com/bnFTA77.png)

It sorts each disc like they're both being played simultaneously.

This means that if bosk has a version of Six Degrees that has the title track as one singular track, then WMP would sort his songs like this:
- The Glass Prison
- Six Degrees Of Inner Turbulence
- Blind Faith
- Misunderstood
- The Great Debate
- Disappear

It's obviously not going to be Misunderstood or Disappear, since neither have been played by MM, but if bosk doesn't have TOT or SC on his work computer, that means the only option would be The Great Debate.  :eek






(if we're right about the Epica hint that is...)
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: ToT-147 on January 19, 2017, 06:36:14 PM
Yeah, that could be too.. Also, it'd fit with him saying "interesting" to those three songs, among which was Conflict at Ground Zero..

But then again... crowd pleaser?.. :-\
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: IDontNotDoThings on January 19, 2017, 06:37:12 PM
:dunno:
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: jsbru on January 19, 2017, 06:48:50 PM
Yeah, TGD can't be considered a "crowd pleaser."  MM has played it, but not since 2011, and before that 2004.  So that's not all that "frequently since it's release" either.

Still, that's an interesting development.

Speaking of great debates, maybe in addition to looking up Bosk's favorite album, someone should look up his position on the Great Debate of the "Is 6DOIT 8 tracks or just one" thread.  MM has played both TTTSTA and WIMH, and both have been played pretty frequently.  Either would be a little bit unexpected as an opener, sort-of fan favorites (it's a popular album in general), and they're parts of a monster track, but it's kind of a stretch to call them monsters by themselves.  Not great options to be sure, but a stretch to fit something viable into the Epica framework.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: IDontNotDoThings on January 19, 2017, 06:52:56 PM
I was actually just looking through the archives to see if either one had been opened with. So far neither, but About To Crash has been opened with, which is another SDOIT segment that's been played with MM.

Anyway, I'll look into it.

Edit: Found it:
But that said, your arguments miss the point.  The band has weighed in and told us whether it is one song or two, so any arguments to the contrary really miss the point.  The fact is, the band wrote it as one song, intended it to be considered one song, and presented it that way live on the tour to represent the song as it was intended.  And they have been clear about that from the start.  The fact that they played only part 1 on a few occasions does not really change anything.  They did the same with parts of ACOS and Six Degrees as well, but that does not magically transform those separate parts into separate songs. 
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: Jinx on January 19, 2017, 07:53:13 PM
Weird how your WMP has put both sets of songs like that. Mine just has Disc One then Disc 2 seperately :/

I think we've narrowed it down to two now - Endless Sacrifice or The Dark Eternal Night.

Incidentally about ES, was watching a clip from 2011 - it is so good live and since they let JR loose with the Zen Riffer on it its got even better. Am hoping for it in the set regardless!
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: jsbru on January 19, 2017, 08:16:09 PM
ES is also #33 on their all-time most-played list (despite being released midway through their career), it's long enough to be "monster," and I think fans like it.  If Bosk says it's not ruled out, then it's not ruled out, but I ruled out TDEN for the same reason...so they should both probably be on the table.

FF and TDOE still have to be on the table, though, because they actually are within the 25 minutes, the album is in the back half of their catalog alphabetically, and they do fit all other criteria.

TSCO is a stretch as far as "monster" track goes, but it does have sort of an epic feel to it (monster in the emotional sense?), so it also has to be at least borderline considered.  Especially since it was on the recent Astonishing encore, meaning that it's already fresh in the band's minds.  If it's not the opener, I'd put money on it appearing somewhere in the setlist.  Same with As I Am.

Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: bosk1 on January 19, 2017, 08:25:09 PM
I don't remember if I said it had been played "a lot," but what I meant was, considering how many tour cycles they've had since its release, it seems to have had a good share of plays.

I also don't specifically remember saying the song is under 25 minutes.  But I'll clarify:  It is.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: TAC on January 19, 2017, 08:28:11 PM
I don't remember if I said it had been played "a lot," but what I meant was, considering how many tour cycles they've had since its release, it seems to have had a good share of plays.

Then that rules out Finally Free.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: bosk1 on January 19, 2017, 08:36:52 PM
As fun as this is, I'm actually kinda surprised you guys haven't instead tried to focus on clues trying to figure out what the FII song is.  Or what the instrumental is.  But oh well.  Since we're focused on others, I'm not gonna give those away.

Also, the ADTOE song is one that many people will definitely be happy with.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: IDontNotDoThings on January 19, 2017, 08:39:00 PM
the ADTOE song

There's only one?
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: jsbru on January 19, 2017, 08:43:05 PM
As fun as this is, I'm actually kinda surprised you guys haven't instead tried to focus on clues trying to figure out what the FII song is.  Or what the instrumental is.  But oh well.  Since we're focused on others, I'm not gonna give those away.

Well, there haven't been many clues about all of those above, other than there's a FII track on the setlist, and there's also an instrumental.

Quote
Also, the ADTOE song is one that many people will definitely be happy with.

But now we're really starting to narrow down the possibilities.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: jsbru on January 19, 2017, 08:53:47 PM
I guess as to the other songs in Set 1/encore, Bosk said there's 2-4 songs from TA, and 6-7 songs from the rest of the catalog (in the first set).

1 is either STR or TBP (and probably no other on this album, because it was described as "the" track)
1 is on FII
1 is on ADTOE (and probably no other on this album, because it was described as "the" track)
The remaining 3-4 are not on BC&SL, DT12, ADTOE, I&W, or TA

Also (and these can all overlap with each other, and mostly with the above):
1 is the opener, a "monster" track that MM has played before (so can't be the DT12 one)
2 are "monster" tracks that MM had to transcribe
1 is the instrumental
1 is a mega-epic
1 is fitting for a drum solo
1 is possibly a good place for an extended guitar solo

Let me know if I'm forgetting something.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: cramx3 on January 19, 2017, 09:01:07 PM
I guess as to the other songs in Set 1/encore, Bosk said there's 2-4 songs from TA, and 6-7 songs from the rest of the catalog (in the first set).

1 is either STR or TBP (and probably no other on this album, because it was described as "the" track)
1 is on FII
1 is on ADTOE (and probably no other on this album, because it was described as "the" track)
The remaining 3-4 are not on BC&SL, DT12, ADTOE, I&W, or TA

Also (and these can all overlap with each other, and mostly with the above):
1 is the opener, a "monster" track that MM has played before (so can't be the DT12 one)
2 are "monster" tracks that MM had to transcribe
1 is the instrumental
1 is a mega-epic
1 is fitting for a drum solo
1 is possibly a good place for an extended guitar solo

Let me know if I'm forgetting something.

Hell's kitchen hopefully
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: IDontNotDoThings on January 19, 2017, 09:14:42 PM
Let's go through my list:

- I don't think many people would enjoy FFH as the ADTOE song (not that it was really a monster song anyway)
- Outcry could've only been represented in 2 tours, but was only represented in 1 of them, so it hasn't really had a good share of plays based on how many tour cycles it's had
- Breaking All Illusions wouldn't be nearly surprising enough to be mentioned so intentionally vaguely by bosk as "the ADTOE song"
- Illumination Theory is unlikely, since it has only been in 1 of 1 possible tour cycles  :lol
- Same applies to AFTR, & it isn't a monster track either
- Caught In A Web & The Spirit Carries On could apply to the "surprising number of plays for how many tour cycles it's had" (especially the latter), but they're by no means epic monster tracks.
- Scarred & TDOE haven't really been represented in DT's setlists that much, only recently has they gotten that many live plays
- The Great Debate isn't a crowd-pleaser, & from what I could find, there aren't any versions of SDOIT that include the title song as one track
- Finally Free would be my answer at this point, but the era between 2009-2013 where it was hardly played at all is giving me the opposite impression, in fact, there's only been five years where the song was played that often: 2000, 2004, 2007, 2008 & 2014.

tl;dr I'm confused :dunno:
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: ToT-147 on January 19, 2017, 09:35:07 PM
Let's go through my list:

Why don't you have neither ES nor TDEN on that list?.. jsbru and I think is actually only between those two.. Well, he also said those three songs from SFaM, but FF is discarded, TSCO it isn't at all related to a "monster track", and....

As fun as this is, I'm actually kinda surprised you guys haven't instead tried to focus on clues trying to figure out what the FII song is.  Or what the instrumental is.

.... this obviously rules out TDoE as well..

there haven't been many clues about all of those above, other than there's a FII track on the setlist, and there's also an instrumental.

Ikr.. :lol
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: jsbru on January 19, 2017, 09:44:47 PM
So going from there, given that there will be 10-11 songs in Set 1, the mega-epic is probably the encore, especially if there are other "monster" tracks that could be mini-epics taking up a lot of time.

Hell's Kitchen is kind of a good guess, because it kills three birds with one stone (FII, instrumental, extended guitar solo).  But TDOE, if it's still in the running for the opener, also does that.

Out of the mega-epics, it's probably not 6DOIT (definitely too long to fit in the first set, and too long for an encore).  It's also probably not IT, due to "the" DT12 track being TBP/STR, and due to the fact that MM has not transcribed 2 "monster" tracks, one of which is probably this mega-epic.  In other words, it's probably ACOS, 8VM or somewhat possibly ITPOE.  I like to personally consider A Mind Beside Itself one epic track, because I think they all go together, but I think that's somewhat out of the mainstream of thought on that.

The only one of their instrumentals that can be ruled out really is EM.

A lot of songs could be a good place for extended guitar and drum solos, including basically all the instrumentals.  ANB of course for the guitar solo, and that's pretty much assured to be on the setlist.

As for the albums:
BAI, OTBOA and Outcry are popular songs from ADTOE, probably in that order.

From FII, LOTS, ToT, and PS are either long enough to be "monster" tracks or have monster in the lyrics.  MM would not have to transcribe ToT or PS, though.  I don't think it's going to be any of the multiple ballads from this album, and it's probably not NM either, since James hates playing that one.

In fact, the easiest one to narrow down would be the non mega-epic monster track that MM does have to transcribe.  We can rule out basically everything after SC, and of course it's not I&W or ACOS, and it's hard to see how anything on WDADU fits in.  And then from there, it's probably not something he's already played.  The only songs from Awake he hasn't played are IF, Erotomania, and Voices.  It could be Voices.  On FII, the only monsterish song MM hasn't played is LITS.  He's played a lot of SFAM, but surprisingly, he hasn't yet played Home, which is sort of monsterish.  TGP is also a really good guess here, and the only one that would really fit from 6DOIT.  There's a few on ToT that would fit (TDS, SOC, ITNOG).  SOC would also fill the instrumental category. Nothing on 8VM really fits.  I think this can be narrowed down to about 7 songs: Voices, Home, LITS, TGP, TDS, SOC, or ITNOG.  Interestingly, except for LITS, none of these other possibilities are on any of the albums we know from which there will be a song.  So either the FII song is LITS -or- we can narrow down a fourth song to one of six choices.

Other than what I underlined above, it's kind of hard to glean anything else really specific about what else is in the setlist.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: Jinx on January 20, 2017, 03:16:42 AM
As fun as this is, I'm actually kinda surprised you guys haven't instead tried to focus on clues trying to figure out what the FII song is.  Or what the instrumental is.  But oh well.  Since we're focused on others, I'm not gonna give those away.

Also, the ADTOE song is one that many people will definitely be happy with.

God I hope the ADTOE one is Bridges. Or Outcry, I could live with that too.

As far as FII is concerned, I'm still hoping for HK > Lines.

Btw, I know bosk has stated about the instrumental BUT has he stated there is only one of them? I'm still saying HK.

Bosk - will SDOIT have any representation as far as this tour goes?
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: TheCountOfNYC on January 20, 2017, 05:01:25 AM
Ten days until the first show of the tour and subsequent reveal of the setlist and the wait is killing me.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: Awaken on January 20, 2017, 05:24:08 AM
Any news/rumors about when US Dates will be announced?  Setlist would be nice, but until I see US dates it's just a list of songs I won't be able to see live
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: devieira73 on January 20, 2017, 09:45:53 AM
Well, after all the efforts of many of us (but mine;-)), there's my final guess:

1st Set
1. The Dark Eternal Night
2. The Gift of Music
3. Moment of Betrayal
4. Erotomania
6. Outcry
7. Surrender to Reason
8. A New Beginning
9. A New World
10. As I Am
11. The Spirit Carries On
12. Lines in the Sand

2nd Set - Images and Words
Encore A Change of Seasons
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: ToT-147 on January 20, 2017, 09:58:55 AM
As fun as this is, I'm actually kinda surprised you guys haven't instead tried to focus on clues trying to figure out what the FII song is.  Or what the instrumental is.  But oh well.  Since we're focused on others, I'm not gonna give those away.

Also, the ADTOE song is one that many people will definitely be happy with.

God I hope the ADTOE one is Bridges. Or Outcry, I could live with that too.

As far as FII is concerned, I'm still hoping for HK > Lines.

Btw, I know bosk has stated about the instrumental BUT has he stated there is only one of them? I'm still saying HK.

Bosk - will SDOIT have any representation as far as this tour goes?

Yeah, bring on Outcry and/or HK!...

About the instrumental, I think since he's talking in singular, it is just one.. Same goes for the FII song, and the ADToE song..
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: bosk1 on January 20, 2017, 01:05:50 PM
:rollin  I've been listening to this album this way for so long that I forgot that I had revised the track list/order.  Oops.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: Joshgirouard on January 20, 2017, 01:37:54 PM
I think He must have rearranged the double disk album (six degrees) to not play as track 1,1,2,2 etc but rather disc one and then disk 2 in sequence because won sorts double discs by tracks and not album one then album 2. TGD falls within 25 min from the end of that album so thats my confirmed guess now , it's a monster track and Mangini has played it before but hasn't been used as an opener

TGD
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: ToT-147 on January 20, 2017, 01:44:06 PM
Six degrees confirmed !!! He must have rearranged the double disk album to not play track 1,1,2,2 etc but rather disc one and then disk 2 . TGD falls within 25 min from the end of that album so thats my confirmed guess now !!!

TGD

I don't get it.. So you're implying he skips disc 2? (and, again, that he doesn't have SC and TOT)..
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: Jinx on January 20, 2017, 02:09:00 PM
:rollin  I've been listening to this album this way for so long that I forgot that I had revised the track list/order.  Oops.

 :facepalm: no wonder certain things made no sense  :lol
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: jsbru on January 20, 2017, 02:25:18 PM
Best guesses given the above, in order of what I think, are TDEN, Endless Sacrifice, Breaking All Illusions, Scarred, CIAW, Trial of Tears, or something from SFAM that they haven't opened with yet.

So then I have to take my original list, and re-adjust it.

Best guesses, in order of what I think, are Endless Sacrifice, TDEN, or an outside shot at two on SFAM: FF, TDOE.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: bosk1 on January 20, 2017, 02:35:53 PM
Well, you guys apparently got really distracted by the 25 minute thing.  So in terms of song run times and eliminating specific songs on albums based on the run time of other songs, forget about that.  But in terms of figuring out which albums it could be, that's your key.  And once you do that, songs that actually work for other reasons are still limited to the 3 or 4 I was originally thinking.  I mean, if we were using WDADU as an example (and I picked that one because I have already told you it ISN'T that album, so you know I am speaking hypothetically only), you can eliminate all but 2 or 3 songs simply because MM hasn't played them (I think they have only played Afterlife and AFIL, as far as I can recall, but I may be missing a song or two).  So still, it isn't hard to narrow it down. 

And they aren't opening with TDOE.  I mean, really, would you honestly expect them to open with an instrumental?  With the exception of an overture on a concept album (SFAM or TA), or an intro-specific track like FAS, they've never done that, and I wouldn't expect them to.

EDIT:  And not that this means anything, but just wanted to say:  I'm listening to Epica right now.  :lol
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: Jinx on January 20, 2017, 03:01:28 PM
So the three or four songs from TOT and SC that MM has played with the band are As I Am, Endless Sacrifice, Constant Motion and TDEN.

Theyve opened with AIA and CM so the two left over are the choices.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: Setlist Scotty on January 20, 2017, 03:03:14 PM
Well, after all the efforts of many of us (but mine;-)), there's my final guess:

1st Set
1. The Dark Eternal Night
2. The Gift of Music
3. Moment of Betrayal
4. Erotomania
6. Outcry
7. Surrender to Reason
8. A New Beginning
9. A New World
10. As I Am
11. The Spirit Carries On
12. Lines in the Sand

2nd Set - Images and Words
Encore A Change of Seasons
I haven't been privy to the setlist, but I'd guess this is probably close to what it is. Maybe YJ instead of Erotomania, maybe ES instead of AIA, maybe Home instead of LitS (altho I'm guessing LitS is it), maybe LNF instead of Outcry (altho I'd also guess Outcry) and probably 1 less TA song which I'd guess is ONW.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: jsbru on January 20, 2017, 03:13:52 PM
As long as everyone's revising:

1st Set

1. The Dark Eternal Night
2. Surrender to Reason
3. The Gift of Music
4. Hell's Kitchen
5. Lines in the Sand
6. Moment of Betrayal
7. As I Am
8. A New Beginning
9. The Spirit Carries On
10. Our New World
11. Breaking All Illusions


2nd Set - Images and Words

12. Pull Me Under
13. Another Day
14. Take the Time
15. Surrounded
16. Metropolis, Pt. 1
17. Under a Glass Moon
18. Wait for Sleep
19. Learning to Live

Encore 1

20. A Change of Seasons
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: jsbru on January 20, 2017, 03:22:49 PM
With TDEN a close second for opener.  I wanted to put BAI on there, but it's been on not just the last one, but the last two Blu Rays.  I don't know...maybe they play it again instead of Outcry.

The above would be an awesome setlist, IMO.

One thing I just thought about is that, for the instrumental, Eve shouldn't be excluded, since there was an earlier allusion to B-sides from the I&W era.  You have Eve, Ytse Jam, Erotomania, HK, TDOE, and SoC to chose from (EM is eliminated).
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: Jinx on January 20, 2017, 03:41:28 PM
No one else wants Panic Attack in the set? :(

I would be happy to have both ES and TDEN in the set too
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: IDontNotDoThings on January 20, 2017, 05:20:38 PM
I know I'm going to catch a lot of criticism for this, but I'm just listening to my EP version of Systematic Chaos on iTunes and appreciating how amazingly awesome it is when you rearrange the tracks a bit and cut out the 21 minutes of PoW and TMOLS that, to me, create way too much of a lull that make me lose interest in the album.

My track list and track order:
ITPOE1
ITPOE2
Forsaken
Constant Motion
Repentence
TDEN

Perfection.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: ToT-147 on January 20, 2017, 05:24:00 PM
Well, you guys apparently got really distracted by the 25 minute thing. 

Even though I warned that it wasn't an actual hint because you never said anything about it, you did lead us to believe it was some sort of clue, through your "I'm listening this" posts..

Anyway.. I also knew the opener couldn't be TDoE, but it was on the possibilities until you clarified in an earlier post that the instrumental was a different 'song', and the same with FII's and ADToE's songs..
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: TheAtliator on January 20, 2017, 05:39:05 PM
Ok this means it can be:

Scenes (not likely)-
Through My Words
Fatal Tragedy
Spirit Carries On
Finally Free

Six Degrees-
The Great Debate
War Inside My Head
Test that's stumped them All

Systematic-
Forsaken
The Dark Eternal Night

Train-
Endless Sacrifice

And I still think ES is a good possibility, and maybe Forsaken (are vampires monsters?), or TDEN if it could be a crowd pleaser. Endless Sacrifice is my guess
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: CrimsonSunrise on January 20, 2017, 06:06:40 PM
My musical life just won't be complete unless I see ACOS in it's entirety at least once.  Been hitting every DT SoCal show since'01 (except for maybe 1 or 2) and have yet to see it.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
Post by: jsbru on January 20, 2017, 06:29:38 PM
Wow, nice find IDNDT.  I was going with ES because it's been played more, it's probably more of a crowd pleaser, its long enough to be "monster," it's on an album later in the alphabet than SC, and because Bosk said "and there's no other albums starting with T" (or something like that).  But I think he could have been speaking hypothetically.  TDEN had on its side the "monsterous" lyric and fit all the other criteria pretty well.

But then again, we know that Bosk also just thought ES was within 25 minutes of the end of ToT, so he had to have a reason for that, too.  So maybe he rearranges all of his albums.

Anyway, it's now probably likely that the opener is NOT within the last 25 minutes of the album, because it seems from his last comment that it wouldn't be but for his rearranging tracks.  IOW, FF is out.

Probably more like ES/TDEN (toss-up) with a huge gap between them and third place, which could still maybe be Panic Attack.
Title: Re: DT to play the whole I&W in fu