The audio drama Starship Excelsior has announced the release of its latest episode, Tomorrow’s Excelsior.
The USS Excelsior is “on a two-year mission of exploration on the far side of the galaxy,” having arrived there after “passing through [an] ancient Iconian Gateway.”
In Tomorrow’s Excelsior, “Five decades after the U.S.S. Enterprise‘s five-year mission, the Starship Excelsior, NCC-2000, is patrolling the Romulan Neutral Zone, her crew in mourning after a devastating loss. When the Excelsior receives an impossible distress call, from a ship claiming to be the Starship Excelsior, NCC-2000-C, her legendary crew is drawn into a crisis that threatens the galaxy — past, present, and future!”
Half a dozen familiar Trek names are associated with the production, including two regulars from the original series, and various guest stars from the original series (including movies) and from Star Trek: Voyager.
I caught "I, Borg", "The Inner Light", and "Time's Arrow Pt. 1".Voyager did I, Borg better, I, think. Time's Arrow suffers from one of my big problems with TNG, which is that the second part of a two-parter usually falls somewhere between "not as good as the first part" and "holy shit that was awful!" This one is definitely in the latter category. I didn't even mind Mark Twain and Guinan, but the episode itself failed on many levels, despite the first half being very good.
Mostly good, but they got too soft on Hugh.
In Voyager the Borg kinda went from " OMG unstoppable threat - avoid at all costs " to " Meh - we'll work something out as usual ".Yup. And it was the Borg Queen from FC that started that bad trend.
Times Arrow has to be in the conversation about worst Star Trek two parter doesn't it?No. Descent is so much worse than anything they've done there's really no conversation to be had. That's awful by regular TNG standards, much less the short list of two-parters.
I can't stand the way the actor played Mark Twain.My problem with him wasn't so much the actor, but the overly preachy dialog that sounded out of place and condescending as all fuck. He was just there to insult all of us.
Every Single Sentence?? Ended in a really annoying UPswing??
Literally everything He SAID?? Went up at the END??
Enjoy that for two HOURS??
Well, I enjoyed the first hour, for sure.Like I said, the first hour was very good. Data as the Connecticut Yankee was a good premise.
Well, I enjoyed the first hour, for sure.
My problem with him wasn't so much the actor, but the overly preachy dialog that sounded out of place and condescending as all fuck. He was just there to insult all of us.You don't think we deserve it?
SOooooooooooo........
I've been binge watching Star Trek Voyager and ...
..I..I think I now prefer it to TNG.
I'm really glad I got into TNG first. I don't think i could enjoy it now if i'd never seen it.
Not from the likes of Roddenberry. But whether we deserve it or not isn't the point. I watch ST to be entertained. Not to hear about how awful I am for being born in 20th century America. While there has always been some of that commentary, it's rarely as in your face as demonstrated by Mark Fucking Twain.My problem with him wasn't so much the actor, but the overly preachy dialog that sounded out of place and condescending as all fuck. He was just there to insult all of us.You don't think we deserve it?
Yeah, but he was addressing 19th century Americans. At least, in Pt. 1 he was. And Twain certainly had a negative view of the general public.Certainly true. I've been listening to audiobooks of his novels recently, helluva guy, and he had no love for his fellow man; that's for sure. However, the criticisms he levied in the episode were even more applicable to our society than that of the Duke and the King. At least that's the way I felt after watching it. Now I skip that half altogether.
TNG has many episodes worse than Threshold.
The one were the Enterprise evolves and thinks it's a train.
Times Arrow has to be in the conversation about worst Star Trek two parter doesn't it?It's up there for sure. Birthright is always the one duking it out with Time's Arrow for which two-parter I want to see less. At least Descent functions as two hours of dumb, semi-enjoyable action but it's probably number three on the list for me.
TNG has many episodes worse than Threshold.I was all set to disagree with this, but after thinking about it for a bit, I think you might unfortunately be right. :lol
The one were the Enterprise evolves and thinks it's a train.
Ugh. Every time I was scrolling thru the TNG eps and it came to that one - the synopsis made it sound awesome - then i'd start the ep and be like ::) oh bollocks it's THIS one....
I hate holodeck episodes. They're largely a hugely missed opportunity.
You have the chance to create a realm where literally anything is possible. The rules of physics or euclidian geometry don't apply.
Yet you use it to put a guy in a suit of armor on a train.
Voyager was no better. Every holodeck episode was in Sandrines or Da Vinci's workshop.
No imagination AT ALL.
After Hours (Cracked) did a whole episode about that. Even the music comes from our time period because they're all lifeless and soulless.The one were the Enterprise evolves and thinks it's a train.
Ugh. Every time I was scrolling thru the TNG eps and it came to that one - the synopsis made it sound awesome - then i'd start the ep and be like ::) oh bollocks it's THIS one....
I hate holodeck episodes. They're largely a hugely missed opportunity.
You have the chance to create a realm where literally anything is possible. The rules of physics or euclidian geometry don't apply.
Yet you use it to put a guy in a suit of armor on a train.
Voyager was no better. Every holodeck episode was in Sandrines or Da Vinci's workshop.
No imagination AT ALL.
Yeah. I love the way all Star Trek episodes involving Time Travel*, The Holodeck or any Art or Culture ALWAYS come from our history - makes you think how barren/dull the 21st and 22nd century must have been!
*Aside from First Contact.
Yeah. I love the way all Star Trek episodes involving Time Travel*, The Holodeck or any Art or Culture ALWAYS come from our history - makes you think how barren/dull the 21st and 22nd century must have been!
*Aside from First Contact.
Yeah. I love the way all Star Trek episodes involving Time Travel*, The Holodeck or any Art or Culture ALWAYS come from our history - makes you think how barren/dull the 21st and 22nd century must have been!
*Aside from First Contact.
Speaking of this, does anyone know the name of the TOS episode where the Enterprise crew goes back to the Wild West? It's one that I remember from childhood, and I'd like to give it another watch for a laugh..
Masks is a terrible episode for exposing Brent's limited abilities.
He's one of those people that thinks he's really funny but he just isn't. At all.
Making my way through the first season right now of TOS. I'm really enjoying it so far. Finished up "The Conscience Of The King" last night. I can't believe how much I'm getting into TOS because I could never get through it before.
Speaking of this, does anyone know the name of the TOS episode where the Enterprise crew goes back to the Wild West? It's one that I remember from childhood, and I'd like to give it another watch for a laugh..
That's The Spectre of the Gun. One of the more enjoyable episodes from the mostly lame 3rd and final series.
If I was named Siddig El Tahir El Fadil El Siddig Abderrahman Mohammed Ahmed Abdel Karim El Mahdi - i'd change my name too :rollin
Ensign, what's the shield frequency of the Ferengi ship?
The frequency is seve.....
IT DOESN'T MATTER WHAT THE SHIELD FREQUENCY IS! I'm gonna take this photon torpedo, turn it sideways and fire it so far up their Ferengi candy-asses that they'll be able to use the giant cavity to store all of their gold pressed latinum. IF YOU SMEEEEEELLLLLLLLLLELELELELELELELELLLLL WHAT THE WORF. IS. COOKING.
Yeah............. no. :lol
I think I will skip straight ahead to "All Good Things".Despite what some people may say, there is some good stuff in season 7. I like the Gambit two parter, Parallels, The Pegasus, and Lower Decks are all legitimately great episodes, Genesis is dumb, bonkers silliness but I still kinda enjoy it, and I also remember liking Preemptive Strike a lot, but I don't know if it was because the episode was actually good or if it was just that Michelle Forbes was in it.
I think I will skip straight ahead to "All Good Things".Despite what some people may say, there is some good stuff in season 7. I like the Gambit two parter, Parallels, The Pegasus, and Lower Decks are all legitimately great episodes, Genesis is dumb, bonkers silliness but I still kinda enjoy it, and I also remember liking Preemptive Strike a lot, but I don't know if it was because the episode was actually good or if it was just that Michelle Forbes was in it.
But, yeah, there're also quite a few bad episodes in season 7. At the very least skip Masks (gimmicky), Sub Rosa (just... bad), Emergence (just about the most boring holodeck episode ever), and maybe Liaisons (just a dumb episode). Interface is also almost universally reviled but I think it's just passably dull and not offensively like the above episodes or much of season one.
I think I will skip straight ahead to "All Good Things".Despite what some people may say, there is some good stuff in season 7. I like the Gambit two parter, Parallels, The Pegasus, and Lower Decks are all legitimately great episodes, Genesis is dumb, bonkers silliness but I still kinda enjoy it, and I also remember liking Preemptive Strike a lot, but I don't know if it was because the episode was actually good or if it was just that Michelle Forbes was in it.
But, yeah, there're also quite a few bad episodes in season 7. At the very least skip Masks (gimmicky), Sub Rosa (just... bad), Emergence (just about the most boring holodeck episode ever), and maybe Liaisons (just a dumb episode). Interface is also almost universally reviled but I think it's just passably dull and not offensively like the above episodes or much of season one.
Masks and Interface are REALLY bad episodes, but neither of them can hold a candle to Sub Rosa.
Where's jammin and his DAHM CANDLE when you need him?I think I will skip straight ahead to "All Good Things".Despite what some people may say, there is some good stuff in season 7. I like the Gambit two parter, Parallels, The Pegasus, and Lower Decks are all legitimately great episodes, Genesis is dumb, bonkers silliness but I still kinda enjoy it, and I also remember liking Preemptive Strike a lot, but I don't know if it was because the episode was actually good or if it was just that Michelle Forbes was in it.
But, yeah, there're also quite a few bad episodes in season 7. At the very least skip Masks (gimmicky), Sub Rosa (just... bad), Emergence (just about the most boring holodeck episode ever), and maybe Liaisons (just a dumb episode). Interface is also almost universally reviled but I think it's just passably dull and not offensively like the above episodes or much of season one.
Masks and Interface are REALLY bad episodes, but neither of them can hold a candle to Sub Rosa.
I see what you did there ;D
" Friendship 1 "
I like how the tricorders sound the exact same as they did in The Wrath Of Khan.
" Workforce "
Ehhh. Not the most exciting or gripping two parter.
Robert Picardo is 100% the best thing about Voyager. Him and Seven.
Picardo is hilarious.
I love him in everything.
Descent is decent.Beaming the entire damn crew down to the planet, save for Crusher and a handful of scrubs has to be Picard's dumbest moment as captain.
No, it's pretty bad. Maybe it's just the 2nd half being awful, but the entire premise was just really bad. Lore was such a waste of a potentially great character, and it really helped neuter the Borg.
It was really not good whenever Spiner played any character that wasn't Data.Most of the actors were exposed when asked to do things outside their primary characters. The mirror episodes of DS9 are the best examples. Dorn and Spiner are probably the worst in this regard. Avery Brooks plays everything so over the top when he's not Sisko he ruins what should be some great episodes.
Agreed. Sucks to be Carry. Killed stupidly a couple of weeks before they get home." Friendship 1 "I like that episode. Quite bleak by Star Trek standards, aside from fixing up the planet at the end.
I like how the tricorders sound the exact same as they did in The Wrath Of Khan.
Would you rather be named Gates?
If I was named Siddig El Tahir El Fadil El Siddig Abderrahman Mohammed Ahmed Abdel Karim El Mahdi - i'd change my name too :rollin
" Workforce "
Ehhh. Not the most exciting or gripping two parter.
That the one where they are convinced they are workers underground and what not?
Stargate SG-1 has an identical episode. It's so strange.
Woah, just checked, turns out SG-1 did it first. I did not realize that.
And yes, I love that man. It's nice when bald dudes such as myself have a guy like him and Picard to look up to.
"Avery Brooks plays everything so over the top when he's not Sisko he ruins what should be some great."At least Bond villains are supposed to be eccentric. I was thinking of Far Beyond the Stars. Whole lot of bad acting in that one.
"Our Man Bashir" when Brooks is playing the villain........dear God.
Watched "All Good Things" and the retrospective episode "Journey's End", and started Star Trek: First Contact. After that, I will call it a day with STTNG.So did you find Decent as a whole as bad as the rest of us? And did you cover all of S7?
After a short break from Trek I will start Deep Space Nine.
"Descent" was not good, although (as is the norm) Pt. 1 was better than Pt. 2.Watched "All Good Things" and the retrospective episode "Journey's End", and started Star Trek: First Contact. After that, I will call it a day with STTNG.So did you find Decent as a whole as bad as the rest of us? And did you cover all of S7?
After a short break from Trek I will start Deep Space Nine.
I had no interest in Enterprise when it originally aired, and I still have no interest in watching it.
I love the EMG on Voyager. He's always smiling :laugh: :laugh:When I originally watched Season 1 of Voyager, Neelix was a big reason that I stopped watching.
You just love him and hope nothing bad ever happens to him.
Same with Neelix. I don't find either of them irritating. Not like Kes or Deanna.
Voyager " Author, Author "
:rollin When fake Tom Paris has a moustache for no reason.
Actually this is basically a rewrite of the episode where Picard tries to prove that DATA isn't just an object.Certainly came down to the same premise. And the same outcome, as both jurists essentially punted the question. However, Data's episode was strictly courtroom television. The Doctor's episode had a much stronger plot, with the novel being offensive and his friends turning on him before eventually having to defend him as he changed his stance. Measure of a Man was probably the better episode, but it was pretty one dimensional compared to AA.
" Natural Law "That's interesting because it seems to be exactly what ST has always striven to be. I don't recall it being a particularly strong episode, but I'd call it exemplary of Star Trek as a concept for television.
As soon as the barrier was down and those slimy people showed up I was like "sigh...it's going to be one of these episodes"
But it was resolved extremely quickly.
Voyager : Repression
Well that must be the fastest problem solved ever. Entire crew brainwashed - Tuvok mind melds with Chakotay - next scene - everything back to normal.
Ensign, what's the shield frequency of the Ferengi ship?
The frequency is seve.....
IT DOESN'T MATTER WHAT THE SHIELD FREQUENCY IS! I'm gonna take this photon torpedo, turn it sideways and fire it so far up their Ferengi candy-asses that they'll be able to use the giant cavity to store all of their gold pressed latinum. IF YOU SMEEEEEELLLLLLLLLLELELELELELELELELLLLL WHAT THE WORF. IS. COOKING.
Yeah............. no. :lol
You really wouldn't watch an episode where Wesley annoys Worf and gets hit by the Peoples Elbow?
Also Nic Cage as Q doing his batshit mental thing.
I know all of those things very well except Keenser. Who or what is that?
Travis who? :lol Even with the few episodes they gave him about his history etc, he was such a waste of a character. Little more than a seat filler.
So should I know who that guy is, or is it just somebody that spent $350 for the picture.
He's also a regular in The Big Bang Theory. Probably suffered extreme brain rot by this point.
He's also a regular in The Big Bang Theory. Probably suffered extreme brain rot by this point.
Ugh. It boggles my mind how people find that show acceptable.
" could you pass the salt please "
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
" i'm sorry what ? "
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
" Oh i'm sorry - pass the sodium chloride please"
HAHAHAHAHAHAH SCIENCE HAHAHAHAHAH SCIENCE HAHAHA NERDS
I spent a few minutes investigating that possibility. He's actually on a very similar trajectory. Not there yet, though.So should I know who that guy is, or is it just somebody that spent $350 for the picture.
My first thought was Wesley hasn't aged well....
Is it wrong of me to wish for one more film with the TNG cast?
Is it wrong of me to wish for one more film with the TNG cast?
That's actually kinda sad. Many actors aspire to direct, but that episode is openly mocked by fans, and it was the one they gave to her to direct.
I've seen McNeill on a few things, and Burton as well. I don't think I've seen Roxann Dawson's name pop up for directing, but I actually watch a lot of TV, so it's probably shows I've never seen.
Frakes hasn't directed a movie for a long time. Think it was Clockstoppers or thunderbirds but will have to check.
I've seen McNeill on a few things, and Burton as well. I don't think I've seen Roxann Dawson's name pop up for directing, but I actually watch a lot of TV, so it's probably shows I've never seen.
If you check her imdb, she's done a lot of known shows. It's easy to miss if you're not specifically looking out for the credit or don't register the name in those few seconds it's on screen.
Ha ha, I hadn't thought of that, but it makes sense. I know Frakes started out by directing a few TNG episodes, and now I see his name pop up in other shows as well.
I just imagine Gates McFadden trying to expand her resume, and when they ask her what experience she has directing, she says "I directed an episode of Star Trek: The Next Generation." Then they ask her which one, she tells them "Genesis" and they're like "WHAT? GTFO!"
Yea, she is gone for the next couple of weeks but we are going to watch it when she comes back. I have once chance to sell her on a movie and I'm debating on Wrath of Khan or First Contact.
But whatever...
Capt. Kirk is all about dat space. All about dat space.
No tribble :hat
Do we know when the holodeck was invented ?
I'd love to serve under Mistress Beata..Well you certainly do have a type.
So it seems Star Trek Discovery has lost Bryan Fuller as the show runner.
Well....this should be interesting.
Finally finishing up season 1. I never thought I'd be saying this but I'm really looking forward to season 2.
Scheduling was part of it, but budgets were also a factor. CBS was balking at ~6mil/episode. In that regard I consider this a positive aspect. As we've already learned, having money to blow on explosions and CGI wizardry doesn't necessarily make ST better. Fuller made clear that modern fans wanted that, which leads me to believe he was looking to style this more like the movies than ST in general. AFAIC, slash the budget and make them write some damn stories for a change.
Scheduling was part of it, but budgets were also a factor. CBS was balking at ~6mil/episode. In that regard I consider this a positive aspect. As we've already learned, having money to blow on explosions and CGI wizardry doesn't necessarily make ST better. Fuller made clear that modern fans wanted that, which leads me to believe he was looking to style this more like the movies than ST in general. AFAIC, slash the budget and make them write some damn stories for a change.
So it seems Star Trek Discovery has lost Bryan Fuller as the show runner.
Well....this should be interesting.
Yeah, I just read that. Apparently it's scheduling, which I'd accept given they've been pushing back the schedule, however Fuller was the only big positive coming from Discovery, so I'm a little worried about the rest of the buffoons handling the show longer term.Finally finishing up season 1. I never thought I'd be saying this but I'm really looking forward to season 2.
Still TOS, right? S2 has a lot of classics to look forward to.
There's already technically a canon Enterprise F design from Star Trek Online, which actually looks really good, much better than that monstrosity.
There's already technically a canon Enterprise F design from Star Trek Online, which actually looks really good, much better than that monstrosity.
is it the one with a bulbous secondary hull and curved nacelles ?
It's ok I guess - looks a bit like an overweight Voyager.
Thats' it. Nicer than Enterprise J and Voyager I guess. Better than Enterprise C & B for sure.
Funny how over time - the saucer and secondary hull have gotten closer together and merged almost into one thing.
Watching he first episode of season 2 right now with Spock and his Pon Farr, not a strong episode at all. It's nice to see Vulcan though.
Watching he first episode of season 2 right now with Spock and his Pon Farr, not a strong episode at all. It's nice to see Vulcan though.
You fucking kidding? That's a defining episode!
Watching he first episode of season 2 right now with Spock and his Pon Farr, not a strong episode at all. It's nice to see Vulcan though.
You fucking kidding? That's a defining episode!
Indeed.
He didn't want that soup.
I'm watching "Who Mourns for Adonais?" Now I'm trying to think but was Chekov around at all in the first season? I don't remember him at all
Just watched TNG's Too Short a Season, decent episode.
I didn't post about it when I saw it but there were two episodes earlier this season that I found a tad funny, Code of Honor and Justice. One of them had a pretty savage black people planet and the other one a pretty chill Aryan planet, I wonder if these two episodes raised any eyebrows back when they aired, I think they were only 3 episodes apart.
Haha yeah. I like that the super Aryan planet was so much fun that people there ran everywhere, nobody walks, they just run because fun.
And in your professional opinion, what does that tell you about yourself? :lolHaha yeah. I like that the super Aryan planet was so much fun that people there ran everywhere, nobody walks, they just run because fun.
I can just imagine Hitler watching that episode and jerking off while pretending that Crusher was Jewish and then right before he finishes, they don't kill him and he gets angry and starts the holocaust as a result.
Yea, TNG caused the holocaust!
Hm, I don't recall TOS mentioning a general explanation for humans being placed on these planets on a grand scale. TOS didn't generally care about that kind of continuity. The individual episodes probably had their own flimsy explanations, none of which I even recall.
SARGON: A body much as yours, my children, although our minds were infinitely greater.
KIRK: That's twice you've referred to us as my children.
SARGON: Because it is possible you are our descendants, Captain Kirk. Six thousand centuries ago, our vessels were colonising this galaxy, just as your own starships have now begun to explore that vastness. As you now leave your own seed on distant planets, so we left our seed behind us. Perhaps your own legends of an Adam and an Eve were two of our travellers.
MULHALL: Our beliefs and our studies indicate that life on our planet, Earth, evolved independently.
SPOCK: That would tend, however, to explain certain elements of Vulcan prehistory.
SARGON: In either case, I do not know. It was so long ago, and the records of our travels were lost in the cataclysm which we loosened upon ourselves.
I don't take that convo as having any greater implications beyond that episode, just serving the purposes of the story.Why is Sargon's explanation a meaningless plot contrivance and The Chase not?
And as I said earlier, it still does nothing to explain the problem with many of the planets they visited. Spreading humans half a million years ago doesn't begin to explain the planets I mentioned, it would only explain the suspiciously human appearance, which is mostly an accepted contrivance of this kind of scifi anyway.
I don't take that convo as having any greater implications beyond that episode, just serving the purposes of the story.Why is Sargon's explanation a meaningless plot contrivance and The Chase not?
And as I said earlier, it still does nothing to explain the problem with many of the planets they visited. Spreading humans half a million years ago doesn't begin to explain the planets I mentioned, it would only explain the suspiciously human appearance, which is mostly an accepted contrivance of this kind of scifi anyway.
Code of Honour from TNG season 1 is absolute rubbish. Horrifically bad episode. It felt like a TOS leftover.I always thought the first season of TNG was weak. To me it seemed like a show that was trying to find it's footing.
I'm only half way through season one of TNG and I'd say TOS is much more enjoyable to watch and I think there's little chance I'll change my mind about that as I advance through the seasons cause the likability of the TNG cast and characters is no where near as good as their TOS counterparts.
The first two seasons of TNG are weak as shit, but after that the show improves dramatically.
the likability of the TNG cast and characters is no where near as good as their TOS counterparts.
The first two seasons of TNG are weak as shit, but after that the show improves dramatically.the likability of the TNG cast and characters is no where near as good as their TOS counterparts.
Both of these statements are absolutely correct. I agree with Metty about which is the better show, largely for the reason he gave, but the quality of TNG at least makes it a ballgame.
The first two seasons of TNG are weak as shit, but after that the show improves dramatically. TOS managed to find its feet by the middle of the first season.
I spent the last couple of months watching DS9, again. For any of you guys that are watching the series for the first time, definitely give this one a try. Definitely the best star trek series of all.
Code of Honour from TNG season 1 is absolute rubbish. Horrifically bad episode. It felt like a TOS leftover.I always thought the first season of TNG was weak. To me it seemed like a show that was trying to find it's footing.
Who knows, I may change my mind when I get to TNG. I always hated TOS but I'm making my way through it now and I'm loving it.
Sisko was awesome.
The first two seasons of TNG are weak as shit, but after that the show improves dramatically. TOS managed to find its feet by the middle of the first season.
It was obvious why they chose Jeri RyanWhy?
Problem is she's a good actress. So I got From Beyond today and it came with a Starfleet pin!(https://static.rogerebert.com/uploads/movie/movie_poster/from-beyond-1986/large_aFH1zXuPQ2lGt09QlszmsnRtgA9.jpg)
Good way to celebrate its 20th anniversary....... of the 30th anniversary.
That episode is such a great companion to The Trouble With Tribbles. They did an impressive job with the effects for the era.
It's Fast & Furious compared to 2001 pacing.
It's slow moving but it's not *boring* in my opinion. I was engaged ( no pun intended ) the entire time.
When they reached V'Ger I couldn't believe 2 hours had gone by. I was so engrossed.
TMP make me reach for smelling salts. Star Trek is best when the soap opera and action are blended together and there was too much talking and not enough sex in this film.
TMP make me reach for smelling salts. Star Trek is best when the soap opera and action are blended together and there was too much talking and not enough sex in this film.
Pretty sure the guy who played Decker got plenty of that after the movie.
The main problem with TMP is the vast amount of Enrerprise establishing shots.
The main problem with TMP is the vast amount of Enrerprise establishing shots.
But it's sooo pretty! Andrew Probert's refit Enterprise is nothing but pure beauty and design genius that deserves to be celebrated. Add Jerry Goldsmith's music and it's basically a starship porn opera. The drydock sequence gets me every time.
So pretty!
Greetings...
Nef
Like I said, it's a music video. You can really treat the first 15 minutes as an overture.
The Enterprise underwater was one of the most retarded things ever.
The Enterprise underwater was one of the most retarded things ever.
I think it was a cool visual - even though the reason for it being there ..held no water... fnar fnar.. :p
If they could have explained why they had to be underwater and couldn't just beam down from orbit...
But they didn't. It's just because they wanted to see the ship ascending from the ocean and so it did.
As the folks at the Smithsonian discovered, having the Enterprise exist anywhere there's gravity is a scientifically bankrupt idea.
The Enterprise underwater was one of the most retarded things ever.
The Enterprise underwater was one of the most retarded things ever.
We talking the intro to Into Darkness? Yea, that whole opening was one of the major reasons I couldn't get through the whole movie. Just a perfect example of "this looks cool" without making any amount of sense at all.
The good things about TFF are really good, and the bad things are mostly the studio's fault.Nah, it's almost entirely Shatner's fault. His belief that the studio short-changed him is silly. The movie could have been salvaged with a couple of pretty simple changes. Make Sybock any other guy. Making him Spock's brother really is silly. Give him some plausible method for his mind control. Fuck. He could twirl a spiral coin in front of their faces and give them the whole "you're becoming verrrry verrrry sleeepy" routine and it'd have been an improvement. Create a better ending. I've come to realize that making him God wasn't such a problem since none of the crew actually bought into it. If it's just some random cult leader in search of his God that turns out to be a real dick then it's now a much better movie and the camp is forgivable.
The one thing I really don't like is introducing, out of the blue, a half-brother for Spock, who is also never mentioned again in any of the ST mythos. That just doesn't sit well with me, and I wish they had found a different way to tell that story.
*shrugs*
I'm a Shatner follower. He is generally awesome, and studios are generally not. So if he blames the studios, I'm OK with that.
It worked in Galaxy Quest.
I know, I was being an ass. I wonder if the giant rock monster in Galaxy Quest was because one of the writers heard about the giant rock monster that was going to be in STV:TFF and they put it in as a joke/homage.
Yeah, but it could have gone something like this.*shrugs*
I'm a Shatner follower. He is generally awesome, and studios are generally not. So if he blames the studios, I'm OK with that.
He wanted a giant rock monster and the studio said no. I'm not sure that would have been a good idea.
I know, I was being an ass. I wonder if the giant rock monster in Galaxy Quest was because one of the writers heard about the giant rock monster that was going to be in STV:TFF and they put it in as a joke/homage.
It was! :)
I'm in a tough dilemma. I thought Beyond was pretty cool (though not great) but since I'm a completionist, I can't buy it unless I buy Into Darkness, and I just can't bring myself to do that.
I'm in a tough dilemma. I thought Beyond was pretty cool (though not great) but since I'm a completionist, I can't buy it unless I buy Into Darkness, and I just can't bring myself to do that.
Yeah I'm the same. I asked for the first 10 movies for my birthday knowing full well it included Insurrection.
This has nothing to do with the JJ films, and their plot hole riddled excuses for scripts.
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THEY'RE OUT OF ORDER!!!
Do you think Beyond is the worst of the last 3 ? I think it's easily the best.
Do you think Beyond is the worst of the last 3 ? I think it's easily the best.
Yeah I do. There isn't much between them though to be honest for me. The 2009 is just the best for me, with Darkness is just a cigarette paper better than Beyond. All 6 to 7/10 films.
Do you think Beyond is the worst of the last 3 ? I think it's easily the best.
Yeah I do. There isn't much between them though to be honest for me. The 2009 is just the best for me, with Darkness is just a cigarette paper better than Beyond. All 6 to 7/10 films.
:o i think Beyond is vastly superior
To be fair I didn't like it on my first viewing either... The screening was too dark.
Han Bo? Han Bolo? Haribo?
Just watched Nemesis again. I like it. :(
Just watched Nemesis again. I like it. :(
Just watched Nemesis again. I like it. :(
Listen dude, I know we all have suggested a possibility of a therapist before, but after this post I'm recommending being fully institutionalized.
It's for your own good.
Just watched Nemesis again. I like it. :(
I don't understand why insurrection has so much hate. It's not an awful film. The pacing is slow and it does feel more like an episode but it's not terrible.
I don't understand why insurrection has so much hate. It's not an awful film. The pacing is slow and it does feel more like an episode but it's not terrible.
:lol I totally forgot about the zit. I'll make my way to watching the movie again eventually and maybe I won't have rose colored glasses on.
I don't understand why insurrection has so much hate. It's not an awful film. The pacing is slow and it does feel more like an episode but it's not terrible.
I think it's just become the cool thing to hate on it here. The movie is just fine. Nemesis is the obvious stain on the franchise that killed the films.
Star Trek : DS9 : Duel.Been a while, but I think he was making it more believable by pretending to not want to be caught. If he's just shown up and said "hey, Gul Dar'heel here, look at me everybody!" they would have found out in short order that he actually wasn't. If Kira has to dig to figure out who he actually is then she becomes more invested in exposing him as the bad guy.
Just re-watched this. Still a good episode.
If Marritza wanted to be caught as Dar'heel - did he make Kira think he was the filing clerk so she would have the satisfaction of "finding out" he was Gul Dar'heel and then he would
" confess " to get her even more riled up ?
That is probably my favorite episode from the first season. I thought the acting was great and the story was well written. I think DS9 had a decent opening season however I didn't like Kira, I think the way Nana played her was over the top. I definitely think Kira was the weakest main character in the first season but Duet was the first episode that didn't make me roll my eyes when she appeared on screen.
If I had to choose someone for ENT, I'd probably say Phlox, although it doesn't take much to stand out amongst a cast of cardboard cutouts.
If I had to choose someone for ENT, I'd probably say Phlox, although it doesn't take much to stand out amongst a cast of cardboard cutouts.I'd have to go with the ladies for the eye-candy, and that's a terrible thing for a show.
If I had to choose someone for ENT, I'd probably say Phlox, although it doesn't take much to stand out amongst a cast of cardboard cutouts.I'd have to go with the ladies for the eye-candy, and that's a terrible thing for a show.
I think Jolene Blaylock is a better actress than people give her credit for, but Vulcans aren't really the most exciting characters in the world. There's just not a whole lot to do with one day to day.
There are way to many dud characters in Voyager for it to top TNG. The only character on Voyager i'd take over TNG version would be the Doc. (yeah even Wes > Neelix).
There are way to many dud characters in Voyager for it to top TNG. The only character on Voyager i'd take over TNG version would be the Doc. (yeah even Wes > Neelix).
Voyager was much better out of the gate ( as they say ). S1 of TNG is nearly unwatchable now. It's extremely 80s. the constant synthy score, the camera work, the acting.
It's really bad. S2 is slightly better but S3 is where it took off. Voyager is much easier to watch from the get go.
That's an interesting point, but I think the kink that needed to be worked out was Roddenberry. DS9 and VOY both got to start fresh without having his silliness muck things up. TNG had to suffer through 2 years of his utopian fairy-tales. That meant evolving the main characters out of their initial awfulness and a better universe to be set in.There are way to many dud characters in Voyager for it to top TNG. The only character on Voyager i'd take over TNG version would be the Doc. (yeah even Wes > Neelix).
Voyager was much better out of the gate ( as they say ). S1 of TNG is nearly unwatchable now. It's extremely 80s. the constant synthy score, the camera work, the acting.
It's really bad. S2 is slightly better but S3 is where it took off. Voyager is much easier to watch from the get go.
While this is true, Voyager owes its existence to TNG. You had to have those cringe worthy opening seasons of TNG (to establish themselves, and work a lot of kinks out) to ever dream of getting the relatively smooth running Voyager, and the absolutely brilliant DS9. Had either one of those shows been the reintroduction of ST, they would have had the same problems in the beginning that TNG did.
That's an interesting point, but I think the kink that needed to be worked out was Roddenberry. DS9 and VOY both got to start fresh without having his silliness muck things up. TNG had to suffer through 2 years of his utopian fairy-tales. That meant evolving the main characters out of their initial awfulness and a better universe to be set in.There are way to many dud characters in Voyager for it to top TNG. The only character on Voyager i'd take over TNG version would be the Doc. (yeah even Wes > Neelix).
Voyager was much better out of the gate ( as they say ). S1 of TNG is nearly unwatchable now. It's extremely 80s. the constant synthy score, the camera work, the acting.
It's really bad. S2 is slightly better but S3 is where it took off. Voyager is much easier to watch from the get go.
While this is true, Voyager owes its existence to TNG. You had to have those cringe worthy opening seasons of TNG (to establish themselves, and work a lot of kinks out) to ever dream of getting the relatively smooth running Voyager, and the absolutely brilliant DS9. Had either one of those shows been the reintroduction of ST, they would have had the same problems in the beginning that TNG did.
There are way to many dud characters in Voyager for it to top TNG. The only character on Voyager i'd take over TNG version would be the Doc. (yeah even Wes > Neelix).
Voyager was much better out of the gate ( as they say ). S1 of TNG is nearly unwatchable now. It's extremely 80s. the constant synthy score, the camera work, the acting.
It's really bad. S2 is slightly better but S3 is where it took off. Voyager is much easier to watch from the get go.
While this is true, Voyager owes its existence to TNG. You had to have those cringe worthy opening seasons of TNG (to establish themselves, and work a lot of kinks out) to ever dream of getting the relatively smooth running Voyager, and the absolutely brilliant DS9. Had either one of those shows been the reintroduction of ST, they would have had the same problems in the beginning that TNG did.
There are way to many dud characters in Voyager for it to top TNG. The only character on Voyager i'd take over TNG version would be the Doc. (yeah even Wes > Neelix).
Voyager was much better out of the gate ( as they say ). S1 of TNG is nearly unwatchable now. It's extremely 80s. the constant synthy score, the camera work, the acting.
It's really bad. S2 is slightly better but S3 is where it took off. Voyager is much easier to watch from the get go.
There are way to many dud characters in Voyager for it to top TNG. The only character on Voyager i'd take over TNG version would be the Doc. (yeah even Wes > Neelix).
Voyager was much better out of the gate ( as they say ). S1 of TNG is nearly unwatchable now. It's extremely 80s. the constant synthy score, the camera work, the acting.
It's really bad. S2 is slightly better but S3 is where it took off. Voyager is much easier to watch from the get go.
I'd agree that TNG struggled on it's first season. But I'd also say Voyager had a rough start too, I'd take Season 2 of TNG over Season 2 of Voyager (The Kazon season). From that point onwards both shows got better, but the much more enjoyable cast/characters on TNG gives it a large edge for me over Voyager.
One of Voyagers biggest problems (outside it's boring characters) was it pretty much resolved the Federation Maquis feud in it's first episode. This uneasy balance of power should have played out at least over the first season.
There are way to many dud characters in Voyager for it to top TNG. The only character on Voyager i'd take over TNG version would be the Doc. (yeah even Wes > Neelix).
Voyager was much better out of the gate ( as they say ). S1 of TNG is nearly unwatchable now. It's extremely 80s. the constant synthy score, the camera work, the acting.
It's really bad. S2 is slightly better but S3 is where it took off. Voyager is much easier to watch from the get go.
I'd agree that TNG struggled on it's first season. But I'd also say Voyager had a rough start too, I'd take Season 2 of TNG over Season 2 of Voyager (The Kazon season). From that point onwards both shows got better, but the much more enjoyable cast/characters on TNG gives it a large edge for me over Voyager.
One of Voyagers biggest problems (outside it's boring characters) was it pretty much resolved the Federation Maquis feud in it's first episode. This uneasy balance of power should have played out at least over the first season.
Voyager and TNG were equally bad during their early seasons.
TNG found it's momentum during season 3, and Voyager turned around after the Scorpion two-parter.
I'd say DS9 was the most consistently good trek show, from the start.
Nope, never seen them. I like the idea of having no bias or preconceptions about the actors going in though.
Nope, never seen them. I like the idea of having no bias or preconceptions about the actors going in though.
Hmm, I dunno, maybe he made a brief appearance in an 80's Japanese porn film or something too.
Nope, never seen them. I like the idea of having no bias or preconceptions about the actors going in though.
Hmm, I dunno, maybe he made a brief appearance in an 80's Japanese porn film or something too.
Blurred out genitalia does nobody any favors...
Nope, never seen them. I like the idea of having no bias or preconceptions about the actors going in though.
Hmm, I dunno, maybe he made a brief appearance in an 80's Japanese porn film or something too.
Nope, never seen them. I like the idea of having no bias or preconceptions about the actors going in though.
Hmm, I dunno, maybe he made a brief appearance in an 80's Japanese porn film or something too.
Blurred out genitalia does nobody any favors...
Fun fact, they're not blurred. That's just what Japanese genitals look like.
Nope, never seen them. I like the idea of having no bias or preconceptions about the actors going in though.
Hmm, I dunno, maybe he made a brief appearance in an 80's Japanese porn film or something too.
Ahem, I watch '80s films, and I watch Japanese porn, but I do not combine the two.
But now you got me thinking........Nope, never seen them. I like the idea of having no bias or preconceptions about the actors going in though.
Hmm, I dunno, maybe he made a brief appearance in an 80's Japanese porn film or something too.
Blurred out genitalia does nobody any favors...
Fun fact, they're not blurred. That's just what Japanese genitals look like.
It's true. I bought a Japanese fleshlight once, and it was like screwing a game of Tetris.
Spock: Easy, Mister Scott.
Scott: Keep your Vulcan hands off me. Just keep away! Your feelings might be hurt, you green-blooded half-breed!
Spock: May I say that I have not thoroughly enjoyed serving with humans? I find their illogical and foolish emotions a constant irritant.
Scott: Then transfer out, freak!
Kirk: What's happening to us? We've been trained to think in other terms than war. We've been trained to fight its causes, if necessary. Then why are we behaving like a group of savages? Look at me. Look at me. Two forces aboard this ship, each of them equally armed. Has a war been staged for us, complete with weapons and ideology and patriotic drum beating? Even, Spock, even race hatred?
Spock: Recent events would seem to be directed toward a magnification of the basic hostilities between humans and Klingons. Apparently, it is by design that we fight. We seem to be pawns.
Kirk: But what's the game? And whose? And what are the rules?
McCoy: Brain waves show almost paranoid mania. What happened?
Kirk: He lost control. So did I. We're becoming animal warriors.
Four thousand throats can be cut in one night by a running man
Yeah, big fan of the episode. It's just a shame Spock didn't turn as bloodthirsty as the rest of them (but he was definitely going to rip Scotty limb from limb). When Vulcans turn violent they're pretty scary dudes. And as much as I like Kor for the gleefulness of his Klingon ambition, Kang was probably my favorite Klingon. Dude was hardcore. All three of the major Klingons (Kodos) return a hundred years later in DS9 and Kang has grown even more serious and intense in his elder years. Not a guy you want to upset.
Yeah, big fan of the episode. It's just a shame Spock didn't turn as bloodthirsty as the rest of them (but he was definitely going to rip Scotty limb from limb). When Vulcans turn violent they're pretty scary dudes.
And as much as I like Kor for the gleefulness of his Klingon ambition, Kang was probably my favorite Klingon. Dude was hardcore. All three of the major Klingons (Kodos) return a hundred years later in DS9 and Kang has grown even more serious and intense in his elder years. Not a guy you want to upset.
Four thousand throats can be cut in one night by a running man
Range isn't necessary. It's a matter of being cold, calculating and completely dispassionate in your execution of violence. Remember what Mirror Spock said. "If I were to be killed my operatives would avenge my death. And some of them are Vulcans." Who would you be more afraid of, Kirk's goons or Spocks?
As much as I love Nimoy, I don't think he has the range or ability or convincingly play ruthless and bloodthirsty.
If you had told me the Klingon leader in this episode is the same one from every other previous Klingon episode, I wouldn't have questioned you. I guess cause it's my first run through the show that they all look the same to me, I'm a Klingon racist like McCoy heh
But I'm glad to hear there'll be recurring characters from TOS in DS9, looking forward to it.
Four thousand throats can be cut in one night by a running manSimply an ancient Klingon proverb. I suppose it means you can kill as many people as you need as long as you're sufficiently determined and enthusiastic. Mostly I think its just suggests that Klingons are fucking mean.
Oh yeah, what does that mean? I didn't get it.
Four thousand throats can be cut in one night by a running man
Yeah, big fan of the episode. It's just a shame Spock didn't turn as bloodthirsty as the rest of them (but he was definitely going to rip Scotty limb from limb). When Vulcans turn violent they're pretty scary dudes. And as much as I like Kor for the gleefulness of his Klingon ambition, Kang was probably my favorite Klingon. Dude was hardcore. All three of the major Klingons (Kodos) return a hundred years later in DS9 and Kang has grown even more serious and intense in his elder years. Not a guy you want to upset.
As much as I love Nimoy, I don't think he has the range or ability or convincingly play ruthless and bloodthirsty.
Fun Fact : Columbo sent Kirk (twice), Spock and Khan to jail!
If anyone wasn't aware, the documentary For the Love of Spock will be on Netflix (in the U.S., at least) in December.
If anyone wasn't aware, the documentary For the Love of Spock will be on Netflix (in the U.S., at least) in December.
I think I heard Blob scream in ecstasy all the way from Australia.
I just watched the Spock doco. Quite good overall. They got interviews with basically everyone, although I could have done without some of them (I skipped over the people from The Big Bang Theory entirely).
Chaos On The Bridge was alright. My sister-in-law said she watched The Captains on Netflix recently and I said " isn't Sisko completely la la :biggrin: " and she was like
" I know !!! he was completely off his head ! "
I just watched the Spock doco. Quite good overall. They got interviews with basically everyone, although I could have done without some of them (I skipped over the people from The Big Bang Theory entirely).
::) Hey lets talk to these guys from an awful, awful sitcom because it pretends to be about science...
That's always people's defence for that show.. " It has science jokes ! " . I've not seen many episodes I grant you but not once was there ever a science-y joke. It was just incredibly
bad and obvious sitcom writing.
- - - - - - - - - -
Chaos On The Bridge was alright. My sister-in-law said she watched The Captains on Netflix recently and I said " isn't Sisko completely la la :biggrin: " and she was like
" I know !!! he was completely off his head ! "
You're trying to argue that awards and ratings equal quality? On a prog forum?? :lol
You're trying to argue that awards and ratings equal quality? On a prog forum?? :lol
Justin Bieber sells a fuck load of records ! he must be GREAT !!!!
It's pretty awful. But this is the Trek thread. Keep that peasant shit outta here! :blob:
Justin Bieber IS great. Probably the hardest-working guy in show business right now. Great songwriter, decent musician, puts on a hell of a show, and funny as hell and a decent actor to boot. He is incredibly talented, and deserves everything he's gotten.You're trying to argue that awards and ratings equal quality? On a prog forum?? :lol
Justin Bieber sells a fuck load of records ! he must be GREAT !!!!
Justin Bieber IS great. Probably the hardest-working guy in show business right now. Great songwriter, decent musician, puts on a hell of a show, and funny as hell and a decent actor to boot. He is incredibly talented, and deserves everything he's gotten.You're trying to argue that awards and ratings equal quality? On a prog forum?? :lol
Justin Bieber sells a fuck load of records ! he must be GREAT !!!!
Sorry to side track by you guys are the minority. It is widely popular with critics, it's peers. It's a very good show. I know there are some shows that is very good that the populous does not like and I've watched many like that as well but a good show is a good show.
Justin Bieber IS great. Probably the hardest-working guy in show business right now. Great songwriter, decent musician, puts on a hell of a show, and funny as hell and a decent actor to boot. He is incredibly talented, and deserves everything he's gotten.You're trying to argue that awards and ratings equal quality? On a prog forum?? :lol
Justin Bieber sells a fuck load of records ! he must be GREAT !!!!
Sorry to side track by you guys are the minority. It is widely popular with critics, it's peers. It's a very good show. I know there are some shows that is very good that the populous does not like and I've watched many like that as well but a good show is a good show.
S..s..sarcasm green hef?Nope.
Or just to disagree with Kotowboy for the sake of it ?And nope.
Mmm. Yes I think so.inb4 "no"
I don't get it. What do you find in my post to criticize? Or are you just one (two?) of those "It's really popular so it can't possibly be good" people?
lol OK
I don't get it. What do you find in my post to criticize? Or are you just one (two?) of those "It's really popular so it can't possibly be good" people?
If I thought his music was any good at all i'd say so. But i don't. I'm also not against pop music. A song is a song is a song.
His music is Poptarts. take it out of the box and put it in the toaster for 3 mins and you got a #1 single on the charts.
It's not good songwriting. It's about as formulaic and generic as it gets and is written by 20 "producers" and sounds like it was made by a computer in 1 minute.
lol OK
I don't get it. What do you find in my post to criticize? Or are you just one (two?) of those "It's really popular so it can't possibly be good" people?
If I thought his music was any good at all i'd say so. But i don't. I'm also not against pop music. A song is a song is a song.
His music is Poptarts. take it out of the box and put it in the toaster for 3 mins and you got a #1 single on the charts.
It's not good songwriting. It's about as formulaic and generic as it gets and is written by 20 "producers" and sounds like it was made by a computer in 1 minute.
To save the sanity of my friend Blob :lol, I'm PM'd Kotowboy the answer to the question he asked.
You should have probably left it at "If I thought his music was any good at all i'd say so. But i don't." Everything you posted after that showed there was no use talking about it with you (especially in a Star Trek thread).lol OK
I don't get it. What do you find in my post to criticize? Or are you just one (two?) of those "It's really popular so it can't possibly be good" people?
If I thought his music was any good at all i'd say so. But i don't. I'm also not against pop music. A song is a song is a song.
His music is Poptarts. take it out of the box and put it in the toaster for 3 mins and you got a #1 single on the charts.
It's not good songwriting. It's about as formulaic and generic as it gets and is written by 20 "producers" and sounds like it was made by a computer in 1 minute.
:tup Typical hef Response. Lets just leave it at that.
To save the sanity of my friend Blob :lol, I'm PM'd Kotowboy the answer to the question he asked.
Thank you for being a friend.
Atta Girl :tup.FWIW, it isn't electronic. Full band, and a big band too, complete with horn section.
Especially cookie cutter electronic bilge like Justine Bebo
Guys!!!
Knock it off. Or I'll do absolutely nothing since I have no power.
At least they're a BAND. That write and play their own music without 50 rap producers in the studio.I can't believe this is happening, but this entire time, even though the name is clearly typed Bieber everywhere, I just realized that the person I have actually been talking about is not Justin Bieber, but Justin Timberlake.
To save the sanity of my friend Blob :lol, I'm PM'd Kotowboy the answer to the question he asked.
Thank you for being a friend.
I feel like singing 80's sitcoms right now.
I can't believe this is happening, but this entire time, even though the name is clearly typed Bieber everywhere, I just realized that the person I have actually been talking about is not Justin Bieber, but Justin Timberlake.
Fuck me. Yeah, Bieber sucks. lol
At least they're a BAND. That write and play their own music without 50 rap producers in the studio.I can't believe this is happening, but this entire time, even though the name is clearly typed Bieber everywhere, I just realized that the person I have actually been talking about is not Justin Bieber, but Justin Timberlake.
Fuck me. Yeah, Bieber sucks. lol
Does the Spock documentary spoil anything for someone who hasn't finished TOS yet?
Does the Spock documentary spoil anything for someone who hasn't finished TOS yet?I'm gonna have to go with yes on that. I haven't seen it, but it's inconceivable that it wouldn't.
In relation to The Big Bang Theory being pure arse gravy and Simon Pegg - Did anyone love Spaced? That was a proper geek show.
I wouldn't say it spoils anything for TOS, since that doesn't rely on continuity that much, but there's an obvious spoiler for The Wrath of Khan. If you've somehow managed to avoid knowing anything about that movie, then maybe hold off. :lol Otherwise, I don't think it's too spoiler-y. But maybe you'd appreciate it more having seen Nimoy's entire run in Star Trek first.
I love pics like that. I wonder if there is a pic only that has all the enterprises together to show scale.
SASHA / TASHA ?
I don't like her character in TWD at all either, but I haven't seen her in anything else, so I'm willing to give her a fair chance.
Yea, I've already made my way through season one so I'm on the second season now. I had to take a break because of moving.
I don't like her character in TWD at all either, but I haven't seen her in anything else, so I'm willing to give her a fair chance.
I'd be less embarrassed if I had group sex with 5 gorillas in a busy zoo than if I admitted to having seen an entire season of a shit show called Once Upon A Time, in which she had a minor role for a few episodes before getting killed off a few weeks after having been announced to play Sasha on TWD. She was just as awful in that show too and that's really difficult to do since that show has at least three gruesomely bad actors, like parody bad.
So yeah, the only way I'll like her as the lead of the new Star Trek show is if she played an alien with a lot of make up to hide her facial expressions and possibly voice modular, hopefully I'm wrong cause I really wanna like that show.
ADMIRAL [on viewscreen]: Captain Kirk, I sympathise with your wish to stay, but I hope you recognise the necessity that you continue your mission at once.
KIRK: That is a problem, sir.
ADMIRAL [on viewscreen]: Perhaps haven't made myself clear. Let me restate it. You have been relieved of all responsibility for the asteroid ship Yonada. Starfleet Command will take care of the situation. (end of conversation)
SPOCK: I believe it's time to move on.
KIRK: Yes. Those are the orders.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C0WmwXZXgAA-0jK.jpg)
Finally completed my Star Trek Movie collection :neverusethis:
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C0WmwXZXgAA-0jK.jpg)
Finally completed my Star Trek Movie collection :neverusethis:
Because it is. :tup
Because it is. :tup
So it is 2017.
Star Trek The Next Generation's 30th anniversary year !!
It's odd that it follows Star Trek's 50th the very next year.
So it is 2017.
Star Trek The Next Generation's 30th anniversary year !!
It's odd that it follows Star Trek's 50th the very next year.
TNG is obviously an old show, and the first couple of seasons in particular are very dated, but overall I don't think it compares. TOS is so very '60s, not just in look and style, but also it's attitudes.
TNG is obviously an old show, and the first couple of seasons in particular are very dated, but overall I don't think it compares. TOS is so very '60s, not just in look and style, but also it's attitudes.
The 80's were very PC. A fucking Counsellor on in the crew, and on the bridge. It was all very touchy-feely, annoying prime directives to be obeyed, meeting must be had before any action. Sure the effects and technology looks better, but i'd disagree with attitudes - I think the more carefree TOS has dated better than the mollycoddling TOS. Oh and Wesley.....
TNG is obviously an old show, and the first couple of seasons in particular are very dated, but overall I don't think it compares. TOS is so very '60s, not just in look and style, but also it's attitudes.
The 80's were very PC. A fucking Counsellor on in the crew, and on the bridge. It was all very touchy-feely, annoying prime directives to be obeyed, meeting must be had before any action. Sure the effects and technology looks better, but i'd disagree with attitudes - I think the more carefree TOS has dated better than the mollycoddling TOS. Oh and Wesley.....
Today is even more PC. TNG got that direction right. The narrow minded macho attitude of TOS is archaic by today's standards.
And uh let's not mention Wesley. :lol
Today is more PC in some regards I agree but that hasn't bled into TV as much as it did in the 80's where even the cartoons ended with characters talking about the morale of the episode (I'm looking at you He-Man!). There is much more anarchy in TV land now, you wouldn't get a Breaking Bad in the 80's!
and not just for pandering to be PC.
and not just for pandering to be PC.
All i care about. A gay character ! A lesbian ! A trans character !
Just for the sake of it.
In many ways TNG seems more dated than TOS.I certainly agree, based on the attitudes you and Blob refer to. Self-interest and conflict are still very real things. The TOS had these but were able to keep them from being problematic because they were exceptional people. By TNG they had just been bred out of them. I suppose if you live in Norway then it might look more familiar and modern, but here in the US we're all TOS era people.
I think it's really solid for a pilot episode, despite the usual teething problems.
I think it's really solid for a pilot episode, despite the usual teething problems.
But My God - Avery Brooks acting is so bad.
I think it's really solid for a pilot episode, despite the usual teething problems.
But My God - Avery Brooks acting is so bad.
I have no issues with Brooks acting, And i'd say Emissary is the best pilot in the Trek Franchise.
The pilot episodes for the other series, are decent to awful. Caretaker for Voyager, is actually my second favorite pilot episode in the franchise
I haven't seen the episode (or maybe I have, I dunno) but that sounds a lot like that one Voyager episode.
Symbiosis was one of my least favorites out of the whole thing. Rather than the pharmaceutical industry I see it as an overly preachy "don't do drugs, kids" after-school special.
Heart of Glory was good, but Worf's got a long way to go. Unfortunately the death scream seems to get forgotten. Doesn't come up much anymore. Interestingly, Worf and Michael Dorn are responsible for really fleshing out the Klingons. Over TNG and DS9 the Klingon mythos becomes a major, integral thing. Yet Worf comes out looking like a real candy-ass sometimes. I guess it's important for his half-human character, but you see him with his brother and think "why couldn't we have gotten that guy instead?"
Legally it's most likely the right decision. Doesn't change the fact that Paramount is behaving like a butthead because somebody put out a better product.
How can Star Trek Axanar have nothing to do with Star Trek when you've got the guy from Enterprise reprising his role?
I'm sure James Kerwin and Vic Montegna are loading boxes at the Amazon warehouse to make ends meet. You're allowed to pay yourself a salary in a non-profit. If I recall correctly, Axinar wasn't doing anything lots of other guys weren't doing. At worst they were just doing it on a larger scale.
My understanding is that the judge "tossing out the defense" was him declining to dismiss the case outright and sending it to a jury. The jury will likely side with P/CBS, but it's not the same as the judge finding them guilty or anything. Merely that they'll have to try and prove it.
As neither of us have looked through their books we're not qualified to say whether or not they're acting as a 501c. Lawyers and accountants will sort that out. As for me, I'm not out to be their champion. My issues are two-fold. One, I really want to see their film. It looks to me far better than what others (including Bad Robot) are doing. Two, you dumping the whole "ruined it for everybody" on them, as I don't think that's really fair. Paramount, as I said, has been very generous, but they've also refused to offer up any ground rules whatsoever. Axanar does the same things that others have done but on a larger scale and P/CBS decides enough is enough. Fine. Then it enacts (frankly Draconian) rules going forward and says it's all Axanar's fault. Well, there is some basis in that, as they were the ones to finally find out where the line was, but castigating them as solely responsible for killing the goose isn't fair. P/CBS has a good deal of responsibility for what happened, yes, in large part because of their vague generosity, and I think it's largely because of the quality of product Axanar seems capable of producing. That makes them buttheads in my book.
I'm completely unaware of this fan film stuff. Is any of it worth watching?
If CBS/P had placed some rules in effect before Axanar would be be in this situation?My understanding is that the judge "tossing out the defense" was him declining to dismiss the case outright and sending it to a jury. The jury will likely side with P/CBS, but it's not the same as the judge finding them guilty or anything. Merely that they'll have to try and prove it.
As neither of us have looked through their books we're not qualified to say whether or not they're acting as a 501c. Lawyers and accountants will sort that out. As for me, I'm not out to be their champion. My issues are two-fold. One, I really want to see their film. It looks to me far better than what others (including Bad Robot) are doing. Two, you dumping the whole "ruined it for everybody" on them, as I don't think that's really fair. Paramount, as I said, has been very generous, but they've also refused to offer up any ground rules whatsoever. Axanar does the same things that others have done but on a larger scale and P/CBS decides enough is enough. Fine. Then it enacts (frankly Draconian) rules going forward and says it's all Axanar's fault. Well, there is some basis in that, as they were the ones to finally find out where the line was, but castigating them as solely responsible for killing the goose isn't fair. P/CBS has a good deal of responsibility for what happened, yes, in large part because of their vague generosity, and I think it's largely because of the quality of product Axanar seems capable of producing. That makes them buttheads in my book.
It had nothing to do with the quality level. Many other fan films have been equal quality, perhaps paid actors aside. That's just the scapegoat story that Axanar has been feeding to the diehards and uneducated to gain support over the evil IP holder. No fan film including Prelude has been taken down.
In response to the lawsuit, CBS/Paramount did officially release their fan film ground rules (which basically kill fan films for good unfortunately). While there were no official rules prior to that, none were really necessary because everyone else had the sense to respect that they were playing in someone else's yard. The grey area started with crowd funding, which CBS looked over carefully on a case by case basis, and the rule was still very well known to the fan films.
It's not rocket science anyway. No rules should have been necessary to tell you "don't raise a million dollars from fans to live off and fund your own business ventures, and then try to pitch our IP to Netflix." How dumb and ignorant do you have to be?
I've followed the fan film community for a while, and Axanar deserves what's coming to them.
I'm completely unaware of this fan film stuff. Is any of it worth watching?Continues actually wasn't bad. I found it a little preachy, and most of the fan-made stuff relies too heavily on throw-back references (the return of original characters and plot devices). Still, the stories weren't bad in that and while the acting was pretty rough, there's a familiarity and fondness for the characters that makes it nevertheless endearing. Kirk and Spock are still Kirk and Spock and it's fun to see new stories involving them. Their problem is that it takes 6 months to make an episode.
I don't know nearly as much as you two about the subject but I'm curious why you guys care about it at all, we're talking about people who made unauthorized fan fiction and got in trouble for it, is there more to it than that really? Unless what they were doing was exceptionally amazing.What they did wasn't unauthorized. Lots of people have made fan produced material. These folks made a 20 minute or so preview of the movie they were planning to make. Paramount/CBS decided that they didn't like their business model and filed suit. Then proceeded to institute new guidelines that effectively kills fan-made stuff altogether. As for the quality, check out one of the Star Trek Continues episodes, some of which aren't bad at all. As I recall, Fairest of them All seemed pretty good, but you and I seem to have different tastes. Maybe Blob could recommend one. Then watch Prelude to Axanar and see for yourself.
I'm not saying don't blame Axanar, they were the final straw. I'm saying that CBS/P deserves plenty of the blame for never offering any guidance. I'm sure you disbelieve every word out of Mr. Axanar's mouth, but his testimony was that they actively sought guidance and TPTB refused to offer any. There's plenty of blame to go around if we're being honest.
Mr. Peters personally profited from Plaintiffs' intellectual property by paying himself with funds raised from consumers of Plaintiffs' intellectual property and by spending tens of thousands of dollars of those funds on his own personal expenses. Mr. Peters used fan-raised funds to pay for the tires on his Lexus, to service his car, to pay for his gas, each and every week for nearly two years, to pay for his girlfriend's gas for the same time period, to pay for two years of personal phone bills for himself, his girlfriend and Robert Meyer Burnett, to pay for his health insurance, his car insurance, his annual AAA memberships, his TSA airport precheck fee, and his personal travel to conventions, both in the United States and internationally.
Mr. Peters also used these funds to pay for tens of thousands of dollars in restaurant meals. Mr. Peters and his girlfriend were provided with debit cards that they used to pay for these expenses from the Axanar Productions account- which account was populated with funds contributed by Star Trek fans.
After the completion and release of this twenty-minute film, Mr. Peters continued to raise money from fans of Plaintiffs' intellectual property, and he paid himself, and his then-girlfriend, tens of thousands of dollars in "salary" ($65,000) in connection with his Axanar project. Mr. Peters also took the money obtained from fans and rented out a studio in Valencia, California. Peters' stated intent in doing so was to create a film studio (using funds from Star Trek fans) that he could utilize in the future to create for-profit projects.
Further, Mr. Peters' company, Propworx, is housed in the studio facility that was rented and built out using funds from Star Trek fans. Propworx has not paid any rent to Axanar Productions for its use of this facility.
Mr. Peters also appears to have attempted to create a business relationship with Netflix and Amazon based on his infringing Star Trek: Axanar project and, although Christian Gossett, the director of Star Trek: Prelude to Axanar, testified that Mr. Peters told him about these meetings, and Mr. Gossett produced a document showing that such meetings occurred, Mr. Peters has not turned over any documents relating to his negotiations with these entities.
Mr. Peters was also fully aware of the infringing nature of his activities, as over the course of several years, Mr. Peters (a trained attorney) repeatedly sent CBS notices informing CBS that Mr. Peters believed that other entities and fan film creators were engaging in "infringing" conduct. Again, Mr. Peters did not turn over these communications in discovery, although CBS did.
After his first deposition, wherein he was examined regarding the use of funds raised for the Axanar project, Mr. Peters altered the financial summary that he had been produced in this case [Exhibit SS] in order to remove all of the personal charges that he was examined about during his initial deposition. Exhibit A (Peters tr. at 394:20-396:7; 398:24-399:10; 401:7-403:5) (confidential document filed under seal) is a true and correct copy of relevant excerpts from the deposition transcript of Alec Peters taken on November 2, 2016.
The altered financial summary created by Mr. Peters after his initial deposition, which he testified he intends to release to the public in order to show how “transparent” Axanar is, does not contain the auto (car) section, meals section, or health insurance section, or any of the detailed expenditures made by Mr. Peters on himself and his girlfriend.
Mr. Burnett testified that Mr. Peters said that he hoped that making Axanar would allow him to work for CBS, and that CBS should let him “run Star Trek.” Exhibit B (Burnett tr. at 217:22-218:7) (confidential document filed under seal) is a true and correct copy of relevant excerpts from the deposition transcript of Robert Meyer Burnett taken on October 11, 2016.
Mr. Gossett similarly testified that Mr. Peters told him that he hoped that, after creating Axanar, CBS would hire Mr. Peters in some capacity. Attached hereto as Exhibit C (Gossett tr. at 19:15-22:20) are true and correct copies of excerpts from the deposition transcript of Christian Gossett taken on October 22, 2016.
Mr. Peters testified that he told Mr. Gossett and Mr. Burnett that he wanted to use the Axanar project in order to make money from CBS.
Copy/pasting a few tidbits from the documents I read elsewhere-For one thing, those are allegations (apparently taken from briefs), not facts. For another, they don't necessarily mean what you think they do. In fact, assuming they're correct, some of them actually work in Peters's favor. Lastly, some of what you take as proof of profiteering is actually in accordance with standard business practices, including those of 501c corps. Without looking at their books it's impossible for us to know, well, me at least, whether a company car or meal allowances are disallowed.QuoteMr. Peters personally profited from Plaintiffs' intellectual property by paying himself with funds raised from consumers of Plaintiffs' intellectual property and by spending tens of thousands of dollars of those funds on his own personal expenses. Mr. Peters used fan-raised funds to pay for the tires on his Lexus, to service his car, to pay for his gas, each and every week for nearly two years, to pay for his girlfriend's gas for the same time period, to pay for two years of personal phone bills for himself, his girlfriend and Robert Meyer Burnett, to pay for his health insurance, his car insurance, his annual AAA memberships, his TSA airport precheck fee, and his personal travel to conventions, both in the United States and internationally.
Mr. Peters also used these funds to pay for tens of thousands of dollars in restaurant meals. Mr. Peters and his girlfriend were provided with debit cards that they used to pay for these expenses from the Axanar Productions account- which account was populated with funds contributed by Star Trek fans.
After the completion and release of this twenty-minute film, Mr. Peters continued to raise money from fans of Plaintiffs' intellectual property, and he paid himself, and his then-girlfriend, tens of thousands of dollars in "salary" ($65,000) in connection with his Axanar project. Mr. Peters also took the money obtained from fans and rented out a studio in Valencia, California. Peters' stated intent in doing so was to create a film studio (using funds from Star Trek fans) that he could utilize in the future to create for-profit projects.
Further, Mr. Peters' company, Propworx, is housed in the studio facility that was rented and built out using funds from Star Trek fans. Propworx has not paid any rent to Axanar Productions for its use of this facility.
Mr. Peters also appears to have attempted to create a business relationship with Netflix and Amazon based on his infringing Star Trek: Axanar project and, although Christian Gossett, the director of Star Trek: Prelude to Axanar, testified that Mr. Peters told him about these meetings, and Mr. Gossett produced a document showing that such meetings occurred, Mr. Peters has not turned over any documents relating to his negotiations with these entities.
Mr. Peters was also fully aware of the infringing nature of his activities, as over the course of several years, Mr. Peters (a trained attorney) repeatedly sent CBS notices informing CBS that Mr. Peters believed that other entities and fan film creators were engaging in "infringing" conduct. Again, Mr. Peters did not turn over these communications in discovery, although CBS did.
After his first deposition, wherein he was examined regarding the use of funds raised for the Axanar project, Mr. Peters altered the financial summary that he had been produced in this case [Exhibit SS] in order to remove all of the personal charges that he was examined about during his initial deposition. Exhibit A (Peters tr. at 394:20-396:7; 398:24-399:10; 401:7-403:5) (confidential document filed under seal) is a true and correct copy of relevant excerpts from the deposition transcript of Alec Peters taken on November 2, 2016.
The altered financial summary created by Mr. Peters after his initial deposition, which he testified he intends to release to the public in order to show how “transparent” Axanar is, does not contain the auto (car) section, meals section, or health insurance section, or any of the detailed expenditures made by Mr. Peters on himself and his girlfriend.
Mr. Burnett testified that Mr. Peters said that he hoped that making Axanar would allow him to work for CBS, and that CBS should let him “run Star Trek.” Exhibit B (Burnett tr. at 217:22-218:7) (confidential document filed under seal) is a true and correct copy of relevant excerpts from the deposition transcript of Robert Meyer Burnett taken on October 11, 2016.
Mr. Gossett similarly testified that Mr. Peters told him that he hoped that, after creating Axanar, CBS would hire Mr. Peters in some capacity. Attached hereto as Exhibit C (Gossett tr. at 19:15-22:20) are true and correct copies of excerpts from the deposition transcript of Christian Gossett taken on October 22, 2016.
Mr. Peters testified that he told Mr. Gossett and Mr. Burnett that he wanted to use the Axanar project in order to make money from CBS.
Also as I said before - lolz at people siding with Axanar simply because they didn't like the new Star Trek films.I feel safe in assuming that this is directed at me. I'm not siding with Axanar because I like what they did better. I've already said that they're likely to lose this. I'm saying that what they did isn't necessarily what Blob thinks it is, and that Paramount/CBS own some of the responsibility for it.
BUT - where Into Darkness was mostly an original movie and borrowed one scene from The Wrath Of Khan -
I specifically meant scenes from The Wrath Of Khan.
Tribbles are a Star Trek trope. I don't mind Marcus being there as she is an established ST character and you never see how her and Kirk met in TOS.
Force Awakens is almost beat-for-beat A New Hope.
But it's still a better SW movie than Into Darkness is a ST movie but Into Darkness is far far away from being The Wrath of Khan remake everyone says.
Beyond is so much better than Final Frontier and Insurrection - both of which are really underwhelming Trek movies.
Into Darkness is far far away from being The Wrath of Khan remake everyone says.It's not a remake of TWOK. It's an inversion/perversion of TWOK.
Come on, it's more than just the one scene. How about the entire character? The name, the character and history, and of course the way he wasn't even Khan in the first place, then partway through the film he "revealed" himself, which was completely stupid. Also they forgot (or more likely ignored) that what made him one of Kirk's greatest adversaries was their history, which was completely absent.
It was more than just the one scene; it was the entire premise.
So...
According to this board...
Any New Trek film starring Khan as a villain would be a Wrath of Khan REMAKE.
Got it.
If the next one mentions Borg - it would be a complete First Contact copy and paste.
And now you've also learned that Star Trek: Voayger is a remake of TMP since it mentions Voyager. A lot.
Finally.
As I said before - having Khan in a Trek movie doesn't automatically make it a *TWOK REMAKE*.No one disagreed with that (that I saw). It isn't a remake.
As I said before - having Khan in a Trek movie doesn't automatically make it a *TWOK REMAKE*.No one disagreed with that (that I saw). It isn't a remake.
Not for me. The Final Frontier will always be the 2nd worst movie in the franchise.
Not for me. The Final Frontier will always be the 2nd worst movie in the franchise.
For most people it's THE worst. What do you think is worse ? Insurrection ? Motion Picture ( my 4th favourite probably )
Not for me. The Final Frontier will always be the 2nd worst movie in the franchise.
For most people it's THE worst. What do you think is worse ? Insurrection ? Motion Picture ( my 4th favourite probably )
Into Darkness and Nemesis are much worse, TMP is a strong contender too. TFF is bad, but still highly enjoyable for me at least.
Most of Voyager's bridge staff are cardboard. I do think VOY may be the better show compared to TNG and is saved by The EMH and 7 of 9.I believe that's a shift in your opinions. A couple of us have been saying it for years.
That consistency is really what it comes down to. TNG has higher highs than VOY, but over the long run I don't think it averages out as well. I generally tend to assume that all series will be 20% shite, 60% pretty standard, and 20% great. The amount that those move around honestly doesn't change a whole lot between the series. Maybe one breaks down 15/60/25 and another 25/60/15. As a rule, there's pretty close to fifty percent of each series that I'll watch when I'm in the mood to watch ST. The other half only comes up every ten years or so. I think TNG is slightly less than that. DS9 will be slightly higher than that. TOS and VOY right around that.
Thanks for reminding me that Endgame was a piss poor conclusion compared to All Good Things.
AGT is how all grand finales should be done. It was like a TV movie.
I just really wanted to see Harry Kim return home only to find that his parents had gotten over his supposed death years ago and sold all of his stuff and rented out his room to a family of Mexicans.
I wonder if Harry would have to explain to 'his' parents he's not actually their Harry, he died, but don't worry I'm another Harry from a parallel universe and you won't notice the difference because all Harry Kims no matter what weird and strange universe they are from are still the same dull as fuck ensigns.
And apparently it's been delayed again.
He has a young Mark Lenard kinda thing goin' on.
Everybody has their own ideas about what Star Trek was about, but I sure hope they dare to be positive in DSC. That for me may be the single biggest reason for me to keep putting on the show (and movies) repeatedly, because despite all the portrayed conflict, there was a sense of optimism that pervaded it. This might betray my political leanings, but I sure could use a reminder in the next few years that humanity in the long term can rise above its base instincts.
....Blob and I aren't the only ones who can't be swayed it seems.Nah, if I find out he's actually up to no good I'll change my stance. I'm just not swayed by hyperbole and false analogies. Moreover, I've never maintained he was a great guy or that y'all should like him. I don't even think he was in the right insofar as CBS's IP goes. I've only said that he hadn't done anything that others hadn't or that was against the known wishes of CBS. He just did one well enough to raise an alarm. As per CBS's own executives, if it wasn't him it would have been the next guy, as there was an arms race to produce better and better productions. https://youtu.be/KxOkhC8-u3s?t=305 I'm not so keen to defend his actions as right, but rather not worthy of the contempt that BVD has for him, while holding CBS completely blameless.
Hey if JJ had made the best Star Trek movie of all time but you found out he stole $1m from Star Trek fans bank accounts to fund his lifestyle - that would be ok apparently.
My favourite argument is " ::) Axanar is better than the last 3 Star Trek movies ergo he should have every right to raise $1m and spend most of it on himself..."
I think my biggest gripe is actually how it's being broadcast. CBS extras or whatever? That's horrible. You don't use Star Trek to attempt to launch an online streaming services when Netflix and Hulu already exist.
Put this show on Netflix, if you want to put it on a streaming service, you might actually get people watching it. I know I'm definitely not signing up for an extra streaming services just to watch this show.
Unless they do another alt timeline but the fans will hate that as well. . .
I'm truly baffled as to why they set it so early.
AT LEAST they could set it in deep deep deep space - billions of light years from The Federation like Voyager.
But they'll probably set it in on Earth ::)
Setting it ~15 years post-Voyager/Nemesis would have been perfect. Free from running into continuity issues, they can make it as futuristic as they want without contradicting other series, and best of all they could throw in Patrick fucking Stewart as a guest star in the first episode. :metalIf they did that, I WOULD sign up for a new service just for this show.
Seriously, if they did that, I'd shit myself with glee.
I hope that each season will be a different time period.This is what I've been wanting all along. I want an anthology series where every episode is a different story from a different time and place. Show us a story about Captain Ransom and his brutal EMH trying to survive in the delta quadrant. Show us what happened five years after Kirk visited and fucked up the natural development of a planet. Political intrigue on Romulus. Hell, show us the Klingons wiping out every last tribble in the galaxy. Tons of ideas.
Other than the horrific lead, my biggest problem with it is the fact that it's a prequel. A decade before TOS, I'd expect everything about the show to look as or even more primitive than it did on TOS, this show looks like everything will look even more advanced than it did on TNG! This is such a real mind fuck for me, visually I'll never be able to get into it.That's not exactly how it works. The problem is that they can't make it look more primitive than the most futuristic look they could create in the sixties. Hell, the entire bridge was made of wood. While they had to couch around the technology being inferior (getting phasers was a huge deal to them) the Enterprise from Enterprise still looked far more futuristic than NCC1701. Think about how monitors look now compared to how they did 20 years ago, when we all had 80lb CRTs on our desks. Exact same thing with ST. On Enterprise they had actual flat panels. In TOS Kirk was always looking at these things:
I didn't know about the CBS streaming service, if I got a job by the time this rolls out I might get it, I've been looking for an excuse to get it for an easy access to Colbert episodes.
:omg: I .....Nah, I had to agree with you a couple of weeks ago about something. I found it similarly distressing. :lol
I ....can't ........El Barto agreed with something I said about STAR TREK.....
OH WHAT FRESH HELL IS THIS ? *Picard Manoeuvre"
Charlie X was a shit episode, but I don't understand your criticism.
Men like women.
I'm just like :lolpalm: oh ffs every time they encounter some new alien and it goes TELL US ABOUT WOMEN!!!!
I'm just like :lolpalm: oh ffs every time they encounter some new alien and it goes TELL US ABOUT WOMEN!!!!When else does this happen? I suppose The Apple qualifies, although the women were just as curious as the guys.
I'm just like :lolpalm: oh ffs every time they encounter some new alien and it goes TELL US ABOUT WOMEN!!!!When else does this happen? I suppose The Apple qualifies, although the women were just as curious as the guys.
Heh, in Spock's brain the ladies sure did seem a bit naive.I'm just like :lolpalm: oh ffs every time they encounter some new alien and it goes TELL US ABOUT WOMEN!!!!When else does this happen? I suppose The Apple qualifies, although the women were just as curious as the guys.
How about a gender swapped ST then? Mostly female crew finds female adolescent in space. Gets on ship and yells "SHOW ME THE D!"
I really like I, Mudd. It's a fun episode, and Mudd was a good recurring character. I'll even give it a pass for being one of the many episodes where they confuse an AI to death, because Spock's scene with the two girls has always been a favourite of mine. "I love you, however I hate you".APotA is certainly an on the cheap episode, but that never bothered me. Was City on the Edge of Forever any different? They can do cheap episodes in whatever style they want, and it's still the quality of the writing and acting that matter. I enjoyed APotA a great deal simply as one of their comedy episodes. Spock continually buggering the lingo cracked me up. "Riggghhhttt?" "Check!" Same with Scotty. And Mel was great as a mobster.
A Piece of the Action I don't like quite as much. To me it's just one of those "how can we make an episode on the cheap by raiding the costume department" type episodes that doesn't really make sense, although it's still amusing for the silliness factor, as many of those episodes are. Mobster stuff has never appealed to me either.
On a semi-related but not really note, the brunette was the only one of Mudd's women that I thought was hot. Maybe it's because of my aversion to blondes in general, but the other two did nothing for me.
APotA is certainly an on the cheap episode, but that never bothered me. Was City on the Edge of Forever any different? They can do cheap episodes in whatever style they want, and it's still the quality of the writing and acting that matter.
You and every other person on the planet save for Harlan Ellison. City was TOS's masterpiece and Action was a one-off comedy episode so there's really no comparison. I just think insofar as one-off comedy episodes go it was damned entertaining, and the recycling is pretty excusable.APotA is certainly an on the cheap episode, but that never bothered me. Was City on the Edge of Forever any different? They can do cheap episodes in whatever style they want, and it's still the quality of the writing and acting that matter.
That's very true. The main difference was that a time travel setup is more plausible to my scifi mind than an authentic Earth history/location mobster planet (although admittedly the guardian of forever was a pretty major contrivance so that's not perfect either), and I just thought the story/writing was much better. I still enjoyed APOTA for what it was. It didn't take itself too seriously.
I've certainly got nothing against general cheapness and recycled costumes if the story is good. The Twilight Zone is one of my favourite shows of all time, and the majority of that was telling great stories with very little.
As I make my way thru TOS - i'm always surprised how well it holds up. I always imagine SUPER cheap and tacky and over the top .Corbomite Maneuver has always been one of my favorites. I like that it was McCoy's first episode and they really establish him in a big way. That might be the hardest he ever rips into Kirk.
But it's not THAT bad...
There's some good drama in there with the silliness. Like Corbomite Manoeuvre
First series of TNG is probably worse !
I'm currently watching it for the first time and I'm really enjoying it so my vote is yes.
If that's the one I'm thinking of the aliens were over the top stupid, which didn't work well for me. Those guys make Ferengi look like Vulcans. At the same time I wholeheartedly approve of their policy of shooting Geordi at will. That cracked me up.I'm currently watching it for the first time and I'm really enjoying it so my vote is yes.
Reap ! Which episodes have you seen so far ?
I like Where No Man Has Gone Before and The Corbomite Manoeuvre.
.... I like any episode which involves outsmarting an alien.
TNG episode Samaritan Snare was a great example of the 1701 D crew outwitting some stupid aliens.
I think that the fact that they were so over the top stupid added an extra element of danger. Same thing with the Ferengi when they were first introduced. They had an element of ignorance that made them a little more dangerous. However, it didn't take the writers long before some of those elements with the Ferengi were stripped away, or lessened to a great degree.That could certainly be an interesting character device, but I don't think it worked the way they were presented (the Pakled, that is). We're used to seeing ruthless people with guns as the bad guys, and I like the idea of a simpleton in their place. It's an entirely different type of danger. That works well with children, for example, who can't comprehend the consequences of their actions. I think that might have come up in TNG, and it certainly did in TOS, and more successfully in VOY. The Pakled just came off as comic relief, though.
I've wondered for a while how you *write* a good captain ?You have him fix his own mistakes out of a sense of responsibility. I don't honestly remember Picard ever mucking something up, though. Janeway was often saddled with guilt, though, which became a driving force in her character. The other thing is to make them generally upstanding people. There's a reason why Shatner and Stewart both looked to Hornblower as an inspiration.
How do you write that the Captain has the best decisions and that the first officer doesn't ?
You could say that "Picard's choices are based on weighing up all the possibilities and trying to pick the best course of action for everyone and minimising loss ...or worst case scenario "
And that " Riker's choices are based on gut and training rather than experience and knowing that loss may inevitably occur "
It's interesting.
But how do you write that Picard is a good Captain ? You can't have all his decisions be right - obviously sometimes he has to pick the wrong move...
I think that the fact that they were so over the top stupid added an extra element of danger. Same thing with the Ferengi when they were first introduced. They had an element of ignorance that made them a little more dangerous. However, it didn't take the writers long before some of those elements with the Ferengi were stripped away, or lessened to a great degree.That could certainly be an interesting character device, but I don't think it worked the way they were presented (the Pakled, that is). We're used to seeing ruthless people with guns as the bad guys, and I like the idea of a simpleton in their place. It's an entirely different type of danger. That works well with children, for example, who can't comprehend the consequences of their actions. I think that might have come up in TNG, and it certainly did in TOS, and more successfully in VOY. The Pakled just came off as comic relief, though.
Mister Spock, the women on your planet are logical. That's the only planet in this galaxy that can make that claim.
If I touch you again, Your Glory, it'll be to administer an ancient Earth custom called a spanking, a form of punishment administered to spoiled brats.
KIRK: There are no more available, but if that's the only way you can get gratification, I'll arrange to have the whole room filled from floor to ceiling with breakable objects.
DS9 : Far Beyond The Stars.Avery Brooks is generally awful. Most of them were pretty bad in that episode, but Brooks and Michael Dorn were the worst. It's too bad because it's a wonderful idea for an episode, but they're so bad at it that it's pretty much unwatchable in my book.
Can't work out if Avery Brooks meltdown at the end is great acting or really over the top :lol
Giving.....Shatner a...run...for...his.......MONEY !
Also Sisko must be going :dangerwillrobinson: " My Dad is Admiral Cartwright who died 100 years ago and is also a preacher in 1920's America "
Those aren't Klingons.In the JJVerse movies they weren't trying to be Star Trek, so I can see why they'd change them up just to be different. I assumed these people were actually trying to make a new ST series, though. Guess I assumed wrong. I had kind of resigned myself to the idea that they might want to make this one a HBO-style drama, and sadly it seems that I might be right. The old Klingons aren't intimidating anymore, as we've been seeing them for 35 years. They had to reinvent them to make them more threatening.
.........right? :-[
THE FUCK IS THIS
https://trekmovie.com/2017/02/11/breaking-leaked-photo-of-a-crowd-of-klingons-from-the-set-of-star-trek-discovery/
Just watched TNG episode "Conundrum" again. Great episode.
I really like the reveal of "MacDuff". We the audience immediately know he's new but nobody else does. I love it.
I like any episode where they have to piece stuff back together again like "Clues" where they lost several days and Data has to lie to save the crew.
Also inb4 Barto informs me of everything that sucks about these 2 episodes.
I agree. Though Troi is the weak link in both.Just watched TNG episode "Conundrum" again. Great episode.
I really like the reveal of "MacDuff". We the audience immediately know he's new but nobody else does. I love it.
I like any episode where they have to piece stuff back together again like "Clues" where they lost several days and Data has to lie to save the crew.
Also inb4 Barto informs me of everything that sucks about these 2 episodes.
No way, those were good.
Well he does say she was following a pattern up until her final move - which he wasn't expecting..You're never, ever going to be able to make that work, dude.
So..if Data thinks you're playing a certain way then you suddenly deviate from it...
That whole stuff was a bit of a staple for Star Trek, where they would occasionally shoehorn in the "but emotion and gut feeling beat it all in the end, because that's what makes us human" message. In the case of Data it established that despite his brilliance, he was still missing that jenesaisqoui, and thus he still had ways to go in his search for humanity.
Realistically, it made no sense. Especially Data would be painfully aware that humans aren't automata who just reel off a fixed behavior. So, him maneuvering the game to a point where a single "off script" move by Troi could mean he would lose, makes no sense.
I'm not Murican so I don't know when Summer or Fall are supposed to be, but I guess Discovery has been delayed. Again. With any luck they'll just keep delaying this trainwreck until the actual 23rd century.
https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/live-feed/star-trek-discovery-premiere-summer-early-fall-cbs-ceo-says-981164
I meant when we the viewers see two ships side by side and they go
" 500 km and closing "
If it was 500 km away then why are they clearly side by side ??
I meant when we the viewers see two ships side by side and they go
" 500 km and closing "
If it was 500 km away then why are they clearly side by side ??
It's metaphorical.
They're 500 metaphorical km and metaphorically closing.
It's just before its time. In a few hundred years, it'll be common place.
I use it today though. When I try to tell a girl how much I care about her, I say "I feel like we're 200km and closing".
Not sure why I'm single.
I might be imagining it, but I'm sure I remember a throwaway line in either a TOS or TNG episode explaining the viewscreen. Well, not even explaining it, but some civilian was on the bridge and the viewscreen was showing the planet below, but it was from a theoretical point of view many kilometers above the surface so you could get a nice view of the whole planet. They asked how it was even possible. The captain or maybe Spock or Data or someone referred to it as transwhatthefunctional* viewing, and how it's really a virtual image cooked up by the scanners. My impression was that it was meant to explain all the times we see events happening on the surface or pretty much wherever they want, and the crew watches it on the viewscreen on the bridge like they're watching a big-screen TV (which is basically what it is), only virtual.
Or did I imagine all this?
*Some technobabble word
I'm not Murican so I don't know when Summer or Fall are supposed to be, but I guess Discovery has been delayed. Again. With any luck they'll just keep delaying this trainwreck until the actual 23rd century.Trainwreck? Did I miss something, I've been staying away from anything ST related in case of spoilers or just to not get my hopes up too much.
https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/live-feed/star-trek-discovery-premiere-summer-early-fall-cbs-ceo-says-981164
And also it's entertainment. If you'd rather see nothing on screen instead to keep it technically accurate, have fun with that.
Just saying that TNG took until its 3rd year to get really good. but nobody will take that into account.
Just saying that TNG took until its 3rd year to get really good. but nobody will take that into account.
I meant when we the viewers see two ships side by side and they goThis is why we should all be using kellicams.
" 500 km and closing "
If it was 500 km away then why are they clearly side by side ??
I'll leave it to Barto to defend himself. :biggrin:Nah, no point. I'm a big ST fan of many years, so obviously I like the thing. But for some reason KTB sees any criticism as dumping on the entire existence of the franchise.
Just got through "The Deadly Years"; great episode! Season 2 is shaping up to be a lot better than the first. It was a lot of fun seeing the crew as old men.It's strange. Since I grew up watching TOS I mainly saw it randomized in syndication. And since very little ever changed chronologically I mostly can't tell one season from another. The presence of Rand or Chekhov is a giveaway, and Kirk's wraparound tunic, but that's about it. The younger folk are much more accustomed to watching things chronologically. So it always amuses me to hear that one season is better than another. Not questioning your opinion, mind you. You've seen more episodes you liked in S2 than S1. I get it. I've just never been able to picture TOS as seasonal. It's just 72 episodes to me.
Just got through "The Deadly Years"; great episode! Season 2 is shaping up to be a lot better than the first. It was a lot of fun seeing the crew as old men.It's strange. Since I grew up watching TOS I mainly saw it randomized in syndication. And since very little ever changed chronologically I mostly can't tell one season from another. The presence of Rand or Chekhov is a giveaway, and Kirk's wraparound tunic, but that's about it. The younger folk are much more accustomed to watching things chronologically. So it always amuses me to hear that one season is better than another. Not questioning your opinion, mind you. You've seen more episodes you liked in S2 than S1. I get it. I've just never been able to picture TOS as seasonal. It's just 72 episodes to me.
I'll leave it to Barto to defend himself. :biggrin:Nah, no point. I'm a big ST fan of many years, so obviously I like the thing. But for some reason KTB sees any criticism as dumping on the entire existence of the franchise.
There's definitely no plot reason to watch them in order. There are some differences with cast (Rand, Chekov), but there were differences of cast even within that, including Sulu and Uhura having absences here and there. No big deal. And the other minor differences in uniforms and sets are fairly trivial. Most people wouldn't even notice it.
I'll leave it to Barto to defend himself. :biggrin:Nah, no point. I'm a big ST fan of many years, so obviously I like the thing. But for some reason KTB sees any criticism as dumping on the entire existence of the franchise.
It's mainly that I never notice you praising an episode or film. It's nearly always picking holes in them.
I'll leave it to Barto to defend himself. :biggrin:Nah, no point. I'm a big ST fan of many years, so obviously I like the thing. But for some reason KTB sees any criticism as dumping on the entire existence of the franchise.
It's mainly that I never notice you praising an episode or film. It's nearly always picking holes in them.
He praises ToS episodes and movies quite a bit.
I have tons of praise for all of it. There's even a great deal of TNG that I enjoy quite a bit. It's quite easy for me to think the characters, actors and much of the writing sucks ass and still enjoy many of the episodes. I watched Clues and Conundrum recently as they became topical here (and watched The Deadly Years last night for the same reason). Both were very good episodes that I dig watching, but when I see Troi's inane ass beat Data at chess I'm certainly going to call bullshit on that one (why bother with this thread, otherwise).I'll leave it to Barto to defend himself. :biggrin:Nah, no point. I'm a big ST fan of many years, so obviously I like the thing. But for some reason KTB sees any criticism as dumping on the entire existence of the franchise.
It's mainly that I never notice you praising an episode or film. It's nearly always picking holes in them.
He praises ToS episodes and movies quite a bit.
The Captain of USS Discovery is ... Jason Isaacs !! :DThat is very interesting.
I have tons of praise for all of it. There's even a great deal of TNG that I enjoy quite a bit. It's quite easy for me to think the characters, actors and much of the writing sucks ass and still enjoy many of the episodes. I watched Clues and Conundrum recently as they became topical here (and watched The Deadly Years last night for the same reason). Both were very good episodes that I dig watching, but when I see Troi's inane ass beat Data at chess I'm certainly going to call bullshit on that one (why bother with this thread, otherwise).
And by the way, Kirk didn't beat Spock in chess. At least not in WNMHGB. He just manages to escape a checkmate that Spock had predicted and pisses him off by doing so. "Sure you don't know what annoyance is, Mr. Spock? :lol)
The Captain of USS Discovery is ... Jason Isaacs !! :DThat is very interesting.
I've never heard of or seen this guy before. Same with the other casting announcement of Mary Wiseman, although it looks like she hasn't done much before, unlike this dude.
I've never heard of or seen this guy before. Same with the other casting announcement of Mary Wiseman, although it looks like she hasn't done much before, unlike this dude.
I'm not sure if you've checked on him yet, but he was in the Harry Potter series. I also know him from a Mel Gibson movie called Patriot. Everything that I've heard about him as a person is that he's a great human being, but the characters that most people know him for are absolutely hateful and he does that extremely well in my opinion. His is the first thing that I've heard about the show that makes me hopeful.
Just watched Voyager : Non Sequiter.
There's a scene where a shuttle is leaving spacedock and it's the same shot as Enterprise D leaving the Dyson Sphere in "Relics".
They re-used shots like they re-used actors.
Fun Fact : Kate Mulgrew was sick for one episode of Season 5 so Jeffrey Coombs did it.
Speaking of stock shots, here's another fun fact: The effect used to make the Enterprise D go to warp was so time consuming and difficult to do, that they only ever used the same three shots created for the pilot episode. It's a much easier effect to do in CG. :lolYeah, it's a slit-scan effect, IIRC. I guess that would be a PITA do do repeatedly. I suppose in that episode with The Traveler they just sped it up and slowed it down to make the ship appear longer/shorter.
Yeah, there's a reason why 90% of the ships in Star Fleet seemed to be Excelsior class. Early on they went with what they had model-wise, and then they went with what they could afford budget-wise, which was constantly reusing the existing footage.
Yeah they had a stretched model of the ship just for that one shot.I have no idea why they would do that. The slit-screen effect is what would give them the stretchiness and they already had that. Eh, this is Blob's purview.
Not sure anyone here will get the reference but.....
"Hello to Jason Isaacs!"
Not sure anyone here will get the reference but.....
"Hello to Jason Isaacs!"
I've heard this umpty thrumpty times turned up to eleventy stupid ;) :tup
And it was never with pop foods.
You'll nerve hear about Andorian pizza or Klingon steak.
Andorian Cuban Cigars
I'm actually surprised Kermode liked Into Darkness more than Beyond.
I'd say Beyond is far far better - except for maybe feeling like a BIG movie.
None of the TNG movies did huge business at the Box Office.
Nemesis made less than it cost so I doubt it.
Generations : $118,071,125
First Contact : $146,027,888
Insurrection : $112,587,658
Nemesis : $67,312,826
Compared to Star Trek Into Darkness : $467,381,469
Wow I had no idea Nemesis did that bad, that can't be the WW total can it?
Wow I had no idea Nemesis did that bad, that can't be the WW total can it?
It is. It made like $7m more than its budget.
Worldwide.
And Yes. Wrath of Khan cost $40m. And it looks GREAT. Get a director like Edgar Wright who can use the budget efficiently and you're gold.
Hopefully movies like Deadpool and Logan are showing that a passionate story with a low budget can still perform insanely well.
Yeah, Nemesis tanked hard, which is why it was the nail in the coffin for TNG.
Yeah, Nemesis tanked hard, which is why it was the nail in the coffin for TNG.
I was always under the impression that it was intended to be the final TNG film. Maybe because they killed off Data.
Was that their intention going in?
Yeah, Nemesis tanked hard, which is why it was the nail in the coffin for TNG.
I was always under the impression that it was intended to be the final TNG film. Maybe because they killed off Data.
Was that their intention going in?
I can't remember who it was, possibly Sir Patrick, but one of them was talking about how it being the final TNG film wasn't a thing till after the film came out and that none of the crew thought of it as the last one while making it.
Well, there is a short graphic novel bridging Nemesis and ST09. It's mostly a lot of fan service, but it has all the TNG people.
Data is fully in control of the body and is captain of the enterprise, the rest are..........I forgot, been a long time. But they're all basically what you'd expect.
Wow. I don't know why I never made that connection of TWOK and Nemesis before. Yup, final battle scene with broken-down ships and two captains that view each other as equals. The logical character, who previously uploaded his memory to another being, dies a heroic death by stepping into the heart of a powerful device.
Kinda sad to think that they at this point cloned TWOK twice.
Data made a near perfect Android from scratch.The difference between perfect and near perfect is that the latter blew up after 3 days.
You're telling me that between him & LaForge -
- they couldn't take Lore and make him like Data?
They could just copy Data and replicate any parts they'd need.
And Lore is virtually Data.
It should be easier to just upgrade that.
I always thought Data was a downgrade from Lore since Lore was too perfect
So he made Data to be less emotional.
Yuk
Voyager episode where Harry sends 7 a message back in time which causes the slipstream to dissipate...
.. The slipstream drive goes wrong after 17 seconds every time.
They say it shaved 10 years off their journey in just 16 seconds.
SO JUST USE IT FOR 10 SECONDS AT A TIME ?? :lolpalm:
He definitely looks resigned or happy at the end. Not vengeful.
Watching Voyager. Into.. season 4? when Seven shows up. My other half asked me if I ever noticed that you can see her nipples. I responded with "no shit. I've been staring at them for almost 20 years" :lol
I forget how much of a crush I have on Jerri Ryan until every time I rewatch ST:V.
But she wasn't in The Final Frontier :neverusethis:
I totally recognize how attractive Jerri is, but she was just never the type I was really into.
If I had to pick a full time cast member of any of the STs (as opposed to guest stars) I'd have to pick Ezri Dax. Mmmmmm.
I totally recognize how attractive Jerri is, but she was just never the type I was really into.
If I had to pick a full time cast member of any of the STs (as opposed to guest stars) I'd have to pick Ezri Dax. Mmmmmm.
https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/industry-studios-the-first-fan-funded-movie-studio-film#/I realize that every thing he does for the rest of his life is pure evil, but what specifically about this is a problem? He's not ripping off CBS from on high. He states very clearly that there is no guarantee this will be profitable. He lays out how the money is to be spent and the accounting to guarantee it. Don't like it? Don't give him any money. Seems pretty reasonable to me.
Alec Peters is at it again, folks !
Watching Voyager. Into.. season 4? when Seven shows up. My other half asked me if I ever noticed that you can see her nipples. I responded with "no shit. I've been staring at them for almost 20 years" :lol
I forget how much of a crush I have on Jerri Ryan until every time I rewatch ST:V.
https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/industry-studios-the-first-fan-funded-movie-studio-film#/
Alec Peters is at it again, folks !
2nd choice would probably be a tie between Soto and movie era Troi.
Sato, whateva.
And her haircut was sexy as hell. I love short hair.
Sato, whateva.
And her haircut was sexy as hell. I love short hair.
WTF dude, are you me?
...never mind.About 6 episodes into season 2, myself. It was better than the credit it gets. A couple of the episodes sucked, but some of them were pretty good, and most of them were perfectly decent.
I'm starting to watch Enterprise from the beginning. I've never watched it all the way through. Already don't like T'Pol. Apart from Tuvok - all Vulcans are portrayed as bitchy
sassy back-talking arrogant dicks. All of them. Tuvok is the closest i've seen to Spock i've ever seen anyone play a Vulcan.
Aside from Mark Lenard, Leonard Nimoy and Tim Russ...Most people play a Vulcan as egotistical holier-than-thou interfering and back-talking.
Their lack-of-emotion is portrayed as only negative. It seems like Tim Russ basically copied Nimoy for Tuvok.
Aside from Mark Lenard, Leonard Nimoy and Tim Russ...Most people play a Vulcan as egotistical holier-than-thou interfering and back-talking.
Their lack-of-emotion is portrayed as only negative. It seems like Tim Russ basically copied Nimoy for Tuvok.
I never saw any similarity between Tuvok and Spock.
Well i'm making my way thru ENT a few eps a day.
But it's not particularly exciting yet. I just sort of have it on and browse the net at the same time.
They seem like weaker Voyager episodes at the moment.
Not sure if you're joking but Generations is my favourite TNG movie.
It's Insurrection I don't like.
My thinking on (do we have an acronym for the new show yet, I like STD, seems like it might be applicable) Discovery is that they have a tone they want to set. They want an HBO style drama, intense and dark. Far more so than DS9 ever got, closer to Breaking Bad or something. That's what the modern TV viewing audience likes and actual Star Trek fans don't matter a whit. The best time to do that is before TOS. Afterward every thing was just to cheery. Even during the Dominion War they made sure not to get too dark. If you want gritty then it needs to be early TOS, and my hunch is that they're all about gritty.
Mostly the latter. If they're still intending to start some streaming service around it they're going to need something far more popular than Star Trek. Its serialized nature and the new for no reason Klingons certainly steer me in that direction, as well.
My thinking on (do we have an acronym for the new show yet, I like STD, seems like it might be applicable) Discovery is that they have a tone they want to set. They want an HBO style drama, intense and dark. Far more so than DS9 ever got, closer to Breaking Bad or something. That's what the modern TV viewing audience likes and actual Star Trek fans don't matter a whit. The best time to do that is before TOS. Afterward every thing was just to cheery. Even during the Dominion War they made sure not to get too dark. If you want gritty then it needs to be early TOS, and my hunch is that they're all about gritty.
Personally I'm hoping for hardcore militant Ferengi death soldiers.Only if they wear the enormous codpieces that Roddenberry originally wanted.
Can I get an amen?
Season 3 of ENT for me was well done.
You know, regarding DSC wanting to be more "adult", if they meet any Ferengi, they could show naked women.
I really hope they don't start saying "fuck" left and right just because it's an adult show.
Guys, it's CBS.Yes, but not "network" CBS. It's CBS All Access, which is, by definition, pay TV. No reason it can't be more risque than something on the network.
CBS.
I was going to say that's all the more reason to be glad that Roddenberry's pervy ass is gone, but upon further reflection there are some ST gals that I wouldn't have minded seeing bust out some gratuitous nudity just to appease the producer. And it's not like they didn't manufacture excuses to put T-Pol in those shorts and skimpy top.Guys, it's CBS.Yes, but not "network" CBS. It's CBS All Access, which is, by definition, pay TV. No reason it can't be more risque than something on the network.
CBS.
:DGood episode. I liked how casual the Vulcan captain was when threatening to destroy the other guys' ships. That always made me chuckle.
That chase scene in "Fallen Hero" was pretty exciting. The direction was like a movie.
Vulcans are essentially humans, but with deadpan delivery.
I was going to say that's all the more reason to be glad that Roddenberry's pervy ass is gone, but upon further reflection there are some ST gals that I wouldn't have minded seeing bust out some gratuitous nudity just to appease the producer. And it's not like they didn't manufacture excuses to put T-Pol in those shorts and skimpy top.Guys, it's CBS.Yes, but not "network" CBS. It's CBS All Access, which is, by definition, pay TV. No reason it can't be more risque than something on the network.
CBS.
Vulcans are essentially humans, but with deadpan delivery.
Do you mean that's how you actually see Vulcans? Or how ENT and the new movies and such portray them?
Yeah, I can see that. And it's all the more twisted when you consider that all of those species were far more human than the human characters to begin with. Who was a better representation of humanity, Picard or Quark?Vulcans are essentially humans, but with deadpan delivery.
Do you mean that's how you actually see Vulcans? Or how ENT and the new movies and such portray them?
Especially how ENT treated them I feel.
In general, there is a limited shelf life to any species in ST. They will start out truly alien (1st season TNG Ferengi, TMP Klingons, Species 8472), but the moment they get used in plots, an "erosion towards humanity" starts to happen. For a good story, the audience needs to at least somewhat relate to the aliens, and the only way of doing so is giving the aliens human attributes. So, by the end the Ferengi were an egalitarian socialist species, Vulcans were just humans with deadpan delivery, and Martok educates us that the true battle lies at home with your wife.
Yeah, I can see that. And it's all the more twisted when you consider that all of those species were far more human than the human characters to begin with. Who was a better representation of humanity, Picard or Quark?Vulcans are essentially humans, but with deadpan delivery.
Do you mean that's how you actually see Vulcans? Or how ENT and the new movies and such portray them?
Especially how ENT treated them I feel.
In general, there is a limited shelf life to any species in ST. They will start out truly alien (1st season TNG Ferengi, TMP Klingons, Species 8472), but the moment they get used in plots, an "erosion towards humanity" starts to happen. For a good story, the audience needs to at least somewhat relate to the aliens, and the only way of doing so is giving the aliens human attributes. So, by the end the Ferengi were an egalitarian socialist species, Vulcans were just humans with deadpan delivery, and Martok educates us that the true battle lies at home with your wife.
ENT " Dead Stop " is a decent episode. Reminded me of the Red Dwarf episode Legion though.
Seriously it's almost the same story... Check it out :p
It does not :(
Yeah, they both suck ass.
I just realised that the episode Cogenitor is a lot like the episode where Riker fancies that non-gendered alien.
Haha I watched an episode last week with Dean Stockwell in and I only just twigged that Bakula & Stockwell were Sam and Al in Quantum Leap.
Oops :)
I think Bakula's acting in Enterprise is a lot better .
I was never sure in Quantum Leap if he was any good.
Plus it had a lousy finale.
I mean - they got him back before - they know HOW to do it.
I read elsewhere that " Sam never returned home " because he CHOSE to continue helping people. Not because he couldn't.
I love those moments in Star trek where Aliens get on board the ship and the crew set up a plan to trick them but they pretend it's to help the aliens.
We know that the crew are tricking them but the aliens don't.
In ENT when the religious nutjobs ask Archer to kill a crewmember and Archer chooses himself and says he'll use the execution device and we know it's the transporter
:biggrin:
Watching a TOS episode on BBC America called "Let That Be Your Last Battlefield". The one with the black/white aliens. One of the aliens takes control of the ship, and they start traveling at warp 10+ speeds. I remember an episode of VOY where Tom Paris manages to travel over warp 10, and they refer to it as the warp 10 barrier like nobody had ever exceeded it.
I know that a few of you guys are way more familiar with all of the TOS episodes than I am. Is there a lot of things that were ignored in the later series from TOS?
You can't expect a short lived 1960s scifi show to hold up perfectly when you're building a whole universe off of it decades later, so it's understandable.
Nearly finished with Enterprise.
I really enjoyed Season 3 on the whole but as an entire series - it's pretty dull and unexciting.
I can see why it was cancelled. It's just blah.. with one or two really good episodes.
Shame.
Yea, but that's Star Trek. It's always dealt with politics, diplomacy and social commentary with some hard sci-fi stuff thrown in.
There's probably only a handful of episodes of TNG or DS9 that were hard sci fi too.
Yea, but that's Star Trek. It's always dealt with politics, diplomacy and social commentary with some hard sci-fi stuff thrown in.
There's probably only a handful of episodes of TNG or DS9 that were hard sci fi too.
I guess I want more episodes like " Where Silence Has Lease " . Where the rules of physics are all out the window.
Oh and....Jolene Blaylock :tupI've posted this here before, but for your benefit. . . https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZV-3t4whoRA&t=23s
I should check it out since it's based on Back To The Future - my #1 film of all time.
Nearly finished with Enterprise.Yeah, they never really did find their way. I personally liked the first couple of seasons, but yeah, it could definitely be slow. They tried to ratchet things up with Season 3, and it moved further away from ST. Then they just said fuck'it and started revisiting past episodes all the time. I don't honestly know what their best approach was. Season 3 certainly had the best episodes, but it had the worst, as well. Season 4 was just silly. The first two were probably the most consistent.
I really enjoyed Season 3 on the whole but as an entire series - it's pretty dull and unexciting.
I can see why it was cancelled. It's just blah.. with one or two really good episodes.
Shame.
I have a feeling Discovery is going to make Enterprise look like a classic by comparison, if anything. :lol
House of cards - in space.That sounds better than what I fear to be the case.
I've been thinking more like The Wire.That sounds better still.
And neither sound even remotely like Star Trek.I agree, but they sound at least interesting, which I don't think this new show will be.
The Mirror Universe two parter was pretty boring.Don't forget the catfight with T-Pol and Slutty Hoshi. Also, the intro was excellent. Partly because the alternative is the shit theme song, part of the reason the show never took off, in my opinion, and partly because it was kick ass. I liked the CGI Tholian, and the Gorn was alright. I always like when one of the doctors is Mengelized. Overall it was just more fan-wank, which is pretty much the entire season, but it was a better example.
I know Blob will say it was just an excuse to get Archer in the TOS garb and be on the original Enterprise and I agree.
That all felt so shoved in.
However it was nice to see the original ship shot in ways they couldn't do on TOS. Especially in flight and firing weapons.
What unicorn females are those for?
What unicorn females are those for?
I think Will Smith's son in Independence Day has played opposite him in a few diff things too. I think he was in Fresh Prince if i'm not mistaken...
The young Picard was perfectly cast. The rest were easy, but he was pretty convincing, as I recall.
The young Picard was perfectly cast. The rest were easy, but he was pretty convincing, as I recall.
I think that actor also played Picard's like nephew or something.
SULU: The Enterprise must have blown up. That would explain the high radiation readings, wouldn't it, Captain? If the matter - antimatter engines..
KIRK: Shall we stop guessing, Mister Sulu
SULU: Once in Siberia there was a meteor so great that it flattened whole forests and was felt as far away as
KIRK: Mister Sulu, if I'd wanted a Russian history lesson, I'd have brought along Mister Chekov.
SPOCK: Nine hundred and ninety point seven light years to be exact, Lieutenant.
SCOTT: But that's not possible. Nothing can do that.
SPOCK: Mister Scott, since we are here, your statement is not only illogical but also unworthy of refutation.
SCOTT: What you're saying is that the planet didn't blow up, and the captain and the others, they're still alive!
SPOCK: Please, Mister Scott, restrain your leaps of illogic.
SCOTT: And maybe a wee bit more. I'll sit on the warp engines myself and nurse them.
SPOCK: That position, Mister Scott, would not only be unavailing but also undignified
SCOTT: I'm so close to the flow now it feels like ants crawling all over my body.
SPOCK: Mister Scott, I suggest you refrain from any further subjective descriptions.
In this case, Spock the pacifist having to blow a man's brains all over Elm St. would have been fascinating. Yet he'd be able to rationalize it because he's Spock.
Yikes, I can't imagine a plot like that going down well. In TV you could maybe make it work, but not in Hollywood.
I completely hated her, yet admired her, and I think it says something about how well the character was done for me to feel that way.She was definitely a hard one to get a handle on, because she's simultaneously the awful Tasha and the unknown but typically devious Romulan. It was a good character and a great idea, but I don't think she did anything to actually sell it and make it stand out.
I hated Tasha Yar so much that I cheered loudly when she died so unceremoniously. It was a fitting death for an awful character. I don't recall her later episodes being that amazing either, but certainly better than the weak stuff we got in S1, but that goes for most later episodes.
I hated Tasha Yar so much that I cheered loudly when she died so unceremoniously. It was a fitting death for an awful character. I don't recall her later episodes being that amazing either, but certainly better than the weak stuff we got in S1, but that goes for most later episodes.
Me too. She is one of the main reasons the first season sucked so hard. I'm so glad they got rid of her.
I thought Yesterday's Enterprise was solid and treated her very well. Good comeback. I thought Reunification was a fantastic episode where her character was passable and little more. She didn't add to it, but at least she didn't tank it. She does have that "oh, fucking Vulcans" facepalm moment, though.
When Kes returned to Voyager after her "death", I forget what the episode was, but for some reason she was pissed off and all-powerful or something. It was a pretty stupid episode. I remember reviews saying that Tasha got a shitty death, but they brought her back and made up for it, while Kes had a pretty good original death, so they brought her back and fucked it all up.
I barely even remember Requirm for Methuselah. Didn't realize it was the same writer as The Man From Earth, although I did watch it because of the Trek actors in it. Pretty good, although noticeably low budget.It didn't need a high budget. Overall I thought it was good, occasionally excellent, right up until the last 3 minutes. The ending was completely unnecessary.
I barely even remember Requirm for Methuselah. Didn't realize it was the same writer as The Man From Earth, although I did watch it because of the Trek actors in it. Pretty good, although noticeably low budget.It didn't need a high budget. Overall I thought it was good, occasionally excellent, right up until the last 3 minutes. The ending was completely unnecessary.
Metty: If you're not familiar with it you might want to check out TMfE. It's the same writer as Requiem and a retelling of the Flint character. For the most part it's pretty good, and certainly better than the ST version.
However...THOSE KLINGONS! What the hell? Why would you so radically change such an iconic species? I see no reason at all. Who was complaining about Klingons looking bad beforehand? Ugh.
However...THOSE KLINGONS! What the hell? Why would you so radically change such an iconic species? I see no reason at all. Who was complaining about Klingons looking bad beforehand? Ugh.
It started with JJ trek, and for some odd reason they thought it was a good idea. It's just another mistake in a long line of them as far as I can tell.
However...THOSE KLINGONS! What the hell? Why would you so radically change such an iconic species? I see no reason at all. Who was complaining about Klingons looking bad beforehand? Ugh.
It started with JJ trek, and for some odd reason they thought it was a good idea. It's just another mistake in a long line of them as far as I can tell.
I don't think JJ's Klingons looked quite as awful. This is just.........wow.
In the end, however, it's the mere fact that this is on an independent paid streaming service that stops me from watching it.
Sad really.
By no stretch of the imagination does this connect to the prime universe. From start to finish, it's JJ inspired. If you told me this was a trailer for the next movie, I wouldn't even question it. The bridge looked exactly like the Kelvin with the big viewscreen that the JJ universe uses, the same inspired HUDS, the same random alien designs, the uniforms, the space suits. I don't think anyone working on this show realizes that Captain Kirk existed before 2009.
It also showed nothing of interest. Ok, it has a ship, and some girl dealing with Vulcans, and some things that were called Klingons, except I saw no Klingons. What is this show actually about? Why is it set in this period? And why does it look nothing at all like that period? Just why?
By no stretch of the imagination does this connect to the prime universe. From start to finish, it's JJ inspired. If you told me this was a trailer for the next movie, I wouldn't even question it. The bridge looked exactly like the Kelvin with the big viewscreen that the JJ universe uses, the same inspired HUDS, the same random alien designs, the uniforms, the space suits. I don't think anyone working on this show realizes that Captain Kirk existed before 2009.
It also showed nothing of interest. Ok, it has a ship, and some girl dealing with Vulcans, and some things that were called Klingons, except I saw no Klingons. What is this show actually about? Why is it set in this period? And why does it look nothing at all like that period? Just why?
Because unlike you and me, most people really love the JJ movies and think THAT is how Trek should be, and are going to absolutely love this show on every level.
........unlike you and me.
What moment did they rip off ?Whether or not it plays out as such in the show, the preview was edited so that the captain re-created the "I don't believe in the no-win scenario" scene from TWoK. All she needed to do was say "I don't like to lose" and then whip out an apple after the ship appears out of the clouds.
And now that I think about it, I'm perfectly fine with it being the JJVerse. That leaves the ST that I like out of this whole sorry thing, and my problem with the JJ films wasn't the altered universe but they poor writing and the fact that they were clearly action movies set in space. This doesn't come across like mindless explosions and pew-pew-pew, so if they could muster up something Star Treky in this universe I'd be just fine with it.
TOS is over :sadpanda:
TOS is over :sadpanda:How are you coming with TNG? Should be getting pretty good.
*double checks to confirm what next episode was*I recall hearing John Cleese's take on Holy Grail, and he was disappointed in the Castle Anthrax sketch. He felt the girls weren't hot enough to get the emotional response the scene needed. Seems it was a budget constraint as they couldn't afford to bus in 30 gorgeous girls from London, so they had to settle for Leeds or something and there just wasn't the same selection to choose from. :lol
*exactly what episode I thought*
*does not disagree*
Maybe their actor budget was enough for either 1 really hot chick, or 1 good looking chick with 2 mediocre ones. :lol
BTW, thanks Blob. I'm hooked on that Twitter feed Swear Trek.
*double checks to confirm what next episode was*I recall hearing John Cleese's take on Holy Grail, and he was disappointed in the Castle Anthrax sketch. He felt the girls weren't hot enough to get the emotional response the scene needed. Seems it was a budget constraint as they couldn't afford to bus in 30 gorgeous girls from London, so they had to settle for Leeds or something and there just wasn't the same selection to choose from. :lol
*exactly what episode I thought*
*does not disagree*
Maybe their actor budget was enough for either 1 really hot chick, or 1 good looking chick with 2 mediocre ones. :lol
He thought they needed to be so hot as to be intimidating. I can see his point, as that certainly adds an emotional element that wasn't there. I thought the scene worked fine, as it was fittingly silly for the movie, but I get what he was shooting for.*double checks to confirm what next episode was*I recall hearing John Cleese's take on Holy Grail, and he was disappointed in the Castle Anthrax sketch. He felt the girls weren't hot enough to get the emotional response the scene needed. Seems it was a budget constraint as they couldn't afford to bus in 30 gorgeous girls from London, so they had to settle for Leeds or something and there just wasn't the same selection to choose from. :lol
*exactly what episode I thought*
*does not disagree*
Maybe their actor budget was enough for either 1 really hot chick, or 1 good looking chick with 2 mediocre ones. :lol
I thought the girls were cute enough, at least the two main "doctors" and the ones nearby. The scene worked just fine for me.
How are you coming with TNG? Should be getting pretty good.
And while I probably wouldn't be quite so gung-ho about it, if you really wanted to get full-on ST geek, here's the ideal viewing order as crafted by a planet full of anally retentive nerds. The one thing I certainly would do is plan the overlaps with the series, which would have DS9 beginning after a two-parter in season 6 of TNG.
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1mlBveFfmceuDmR1CVjmJyTYgZY2YFVI-WjYsqDJQ900/edit
Downloaded TAS a couple of weeks ago. Only watched the first episode so far. While I'm just fine with animation, that particular style really doesn't work well for me.
I apologize if this has been discussed (looked on last 2 pages real quick, didn't see it)From Seth McFarlane I'd expect to see a highly detailed snapper on that bridge girl's face. It's so obvious and he's one of the few who could actually get away with it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d8aUuFsXRjU
The Orville - star trek spoof from Seth McFarlane. At least now we won't have to worry if the new Star Trek sucks :D
I apologize if this has been discussed (looked on last 2 pages real quick, didn't see it)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d8aUuFsXRjU
The Orville - star trek spoof from Seth McFarlane. At least now we won't have to worry if the new Star Trek sucks :D
Trek is 50 years old.You raise an interesting point, but there are a few commonalities that most of us liked from the various incarnations. I don't think it's so much about what JJ's movies lacked but more about what they were. Unlike "everybody" I didn't like First Contact for much the same reason. It dumped its source material and replaced it with more action.
What is it supposed to Feel like ?
TNG at it's peak didn't FEEL like TOS.
The TOS movies felt nothing like TOS the series.
The TNG movies - even First Contact - the one that everyone loves - felt nothing like TNG the show.
Enterprise - which was supposed to be 100 years before TOS was more like TNG in "feel"...
Star Trek 2009 was 43 years since TOS began. Of course it was going to be a product of it's time. All Star Trek is. But people keep saying each new iteration isn't Proper Star Trek.
or isn't THEIR Star Trek. Star Trek Beyond was made by huge Trek Fans and was probably the most ST out of the 3 Kelvin movies but it wasn't "proper" ST either.
At this stage I don't even know if people know what they want. I've seen people diss Star Trek Continues and that's as Star Trek as you can get...
I'm not at all shocked that people would prefer Axanar to continue - an illegal rip off - simply because " at least it's not the kelvin Timeline amirite ?! ".
About the only thing I will concede is that Star Trek Into Darkness was mostly surface and no substance and clumsily re used a scene from the Wrath of Khan.
But ST09 and Beyond were both great. People are going to trash Discovery after one episode - forgetting that TNG took about 2 seasons to really get good...
... :\
Trek is 50 years old.
What is it supposed to Feel like ?
TNG at it's peak didn't FEEL like TOS.
The TOS movies felt nothing like TOS the series.
The TNG movies - even First Contact - the one that everyone loves - felt nothing like TNG the show.
Enterprise - which was supposed to be 100 years before TOS was more like TNG in "feel"...
Star Trek 2009 was 43 years since TOS began. Of course it was going to be a product of it's time. All Star Trek is. But people keep saying each new iteration isn't Proper Star Trek.
or isn't THEIR Star Trek. Star Trek Beyond was made by huge Trek Fans and was probably the most ST out of the 3 Kelvin movies but it wasn't "proper" ST either.
At this stage I don't even know if people know what they want. I've seen people diss Star Trek Continues and that's as Star Trek as you can get...
I'm not at all shocked that people would prefer Axanar to continue - an illegal rip off - simply because " at least it's not the kelvin Timeline amirite ?! ".
About the only thing I will concede is that Star Trek Into Darkness was mostly surface and no substance and clumsily re used a scene from the Wrath of Khan.
But ST09 and Beyond were both great. People are going to trash Discovery after one episode - forgetting that TNG took about 2 seasons to really get good...
... :\
What would you say is
i.The best TNG 2 parter
ii. The best Trek Two Parter full stop ?
Was All Good Things a 2 parter ? If so i'd choose that one.
The Best of Both Worlds part 2 probably has the biggest anti-climax.Yeah, although the whole second half is a bit of a letdown.
All Good Things should have been the final movie instead of Nemesis.
It's probably better than all 4 of the movies.
Watching TNG Masks.Yup. All his other characters sucked. But this applies to most of the various casts. When you personify a character it's very easy to portray him well. Shatner didn't have to be a good actor because he was Kirk. Dorn might be the worst actor of the lot, but he was Worf so he was naturally great at being Worf. Outside of the safety net of playing the role they established very few of them really held up. That's why the DS9 mirror universe episodes were so bad. And as good as Far Beyond the Stars could have been, bad acting really dragged it down.
I *love* Brent Spiner as Data.
But literally any other character is just a silly voice and over acting.
:lol I can't imagine Avery Brooks being worse than he was in The Emissary.
:lol I can't imagine Avery Brooks being worse than he was in The Emissary.
He was dreadful in 'Our Man Bashir'.
Nah, he's definitely on something in that Captains doco. :lolI'll make a point to watch the whole thing, but I did watch some youtube snippets before my post, and as a doper myself I didn't think he was coming across as stoned. He did seem fairly loopy, but not stoned. Interestingly, I did see a clip where I thought "wow, maybe the Queen's subjects were right!" but it wasn't anything y'all would have picked up on. I know y'all were referring to him noodling around on the piano with Shatner, and if he's on something it's not grass.
Nah, he's definitely on something in that Captains doco. :lol
Also, I'm not sure if any of you guys seen the early out-takes of VOY with the original actress that was supposed to play the captain, but the show runners definitely made a great decision in replacing her. That should be a good indication as to the quality of work that all of the captains/leaders that we know, and how they did.
I must be the only person on the planet who, judging from the few snippets online with Geneviève Bujold, would have liked to have seen her more than Mulgrew in the role. I never found Mulgrew's "space mom" very convincing.
I must be the only person on the planet who, judging from the few snippets online with Geneviève Bujold, would have liked to have seen her more than Mulgrew in the role. I never found Mulgrew's "space mom" very convincing.
I liked Geneviève Bujold a lot. Okay, mostly I just thought she was hot, but I remember seeing her in a few movies and thought she was fine. But people are right in that somehow her chops as a movie actress didn't translate well to the small screen. I have no idea why. But there are other examples of successful TV actors who couldn't make it in films, and vice versa.
Nah, he's definitely on something in that Captains doco. :lol
Yeah this. He answered any of Shatner's question with a jazz piano riff.
When he did speak - he made little to no sense at all.
His acting in that episode of DS9 where everyone is a human character working at a comic or a newspapers - is awful.That's the one I first referred to. It had the potential to be a stellar episode. Great story and some interesting decisions. Having Weyoun and Dukat be the two cops was inspired. Instead it sucked because of some pretty poor acting. And it wasn't just Brooks.
When he has an emotional breakdown at the end. It's way worse than Shatner's worst acting.
Genuinely terrible acting.
I have absolutely 0 problems with Visitor in her leather Intendant get-up, but yes upon rewatching those episodes, they're all largely forgettable. Though I do think the first one is the best of the lot and is not a bad episode in it's own right.Yeah, part of my problem is that I never found NV even remotely attractive. That was a necessary component to the part she was trying to play. Now if Dax had been the Intedant you've got a whole new series and we probably all remember them more fondly.
Kids ruin everything but Stranger Things.
Star Trek Discovery officially has a September 24 start date, 15 episodes in two chapters. First 8 episodes from Sep 24 - Nov 5. Second half starts in Jan 2018.
https://www.startrek.com/article/star-trek-discovery-sets-premiere-date
https://www.startrek.com/article/remembering-tos-guest-star-skip-homeier-1930-2017?utm_source=fark&utm_medium=website&utm_content=link&ICID=ref_farkI never connected Melakon with Sevrin. However, looking back the voice makes it pretty obvious.
https://www.startrek.com/article/remembering-tos-guest-star-skip-homeier-1930-2017?utm_source=fark&utm_medium=website&utm_content=link&ICID=ref_farkI never connected Melakon with Sevrin. However, looking back the voice makes it pretty obvious.
"The Federation needs men like you, doctor. Men of conscience. Men of principle. Men who can sleep at night... You're also the reason Section Thirty-One exists -- someone has to protect men like you from a universe that doesn't share your sense of right and wrong."
New trailer for STD-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oWnYtyNKPsA
Oh boy. So it's been revealed the main girl was raised by Sarek and Amanda. Harry Mudd is looking like the JJ universe equivalent of Harry Mudd, ie. unrecognizable in any way. The USS Shenzou looks like it's from First Contact (it's basically the Akira). They appear to have Star Wars air lock shields in their hangar bays. The Klingons are also unrecognizable in any way.
STD is a fitting acronym for this show, because it looks like full blown AIDS.
:lol What gave it away?
There's not really much info at the moment. Here's the trailer. It's probably going to entirely disregard the series, given that MGM was planning to reboot the franchise anyway.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pnaEUhfMUKQ
The new SG show will be a 10 episode mini web series, each 10 or so minutes long - a prequel to the original movie. It's just... to quote POTUS "SAD!".
The new SG show will be a 10 episode mini web series, each 10 or so minutes long - a prequel to the original movie. It's just... to quote POTUS "SAD!".
I just don't get it. They had an amazing SG show and ended it on a cliff hanger, and also introduced some of the most fascinating questions that the SG world had ever faced (possible creator aliens) and this is what they do instead? A show that takes place in the 20's or whatever when they had to manually dial the gate by hand and had no clue what to do ever? Eh.
New trailer for STD-Christ. After that I doubt I'll watch it at all. And I thought it was supposed to be in the prime universe? Everything about it is from JJ's. The difference is that while JJ's wasn't even close to ST, it had humor and a wee bit of charm. The nature of what CBS is trying to do precludes either of those. This'll be completely worthless.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oWnYtyNKPsA
Oh boy. So it's been revealed the main girl was raised by Sarek and Amanda. Harry Mudd is looking like the JJ universe equivalent of Harry Mudd, ie. unrecognizable in any way. The USS Shenzou looks like it's from First Contact (it's basically the Akira). They appear to have Star Wars air lock shields in their hangar bays. The Klingons are also unrecognizable in any way.
STD is a fitting acronym for this show, because it looks like full blown AIDS.
Any of you checking our Orville in September?
Second trailer was just released.
That's what it was. I'll wait until a see 4 or 5 episodes. I think you k ow how bad promotion is for shows showing mostly the same crap over and over.
TBH, Universe had potential but it was a giant teen-drama in space. It only got interesting few episodes before it ended.
Any of you checking our Orville in September?
On this one it looks like the actual crew are just a bunch of lazy idiots, which isn't funny to me.
On this one it looks like the actual crew are just a bunch of lazy idiots, which isn't funny to me.
Yet, you continue to hang out with us in the DTF forum? :biggrin:
“One of the first things he ever pitched was his aesthetic for the Klingons and how important it was that they be aesthete,” said executive producer Aaron Harberts. “That they not be the thugs of the universe, that they be sexy and vital and different from what had come before.”
Although the franchise is staying strong with its theatrical film releases, it won’t be in the same vein as the new show. So the Klingons are free to look different in the movies from how they will look in the TV series.So, in order to keep people from being confused that the new series is part of the JJ universe, they decided to create a third universe. Yeah, that makes sense.
This will probably help fans not to assume they are in the same universe.
So, in order to keep people from being confused that the new series is part of the JJ universe, they decided to create a third universe. Yeah, that makes sense.
I feel like the people behind this show aren't aware that Star Trek existed before 2009.
Finally finished TOS. There are some great episodes in the first two seasons but things really slowed down in the third. I don't know if I was just getting bored of the series or if the writing wasn't that great.I always found it to be just a cut below the first two, but not by much. Every season of every ST series has standouts and stinkers. While S3 might have more stinkers it's still got plenty of standouts.
Time to start with seasons 2 of TNG.
Against my better judgement, for the sake of self promotion I submit for your viewing a new Youtube video I made about Captain Kirk. I expect it will be dissected in typical DTF fashion. :lol:tup
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f3jmxX8CIjI
Against my better judgement, for the sake of self promotion I submit for your viewing a new Youtube video I made about Captain Kirk. I expect it will be dissected in typical DTF fashion. :lol
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f3jmxX8CIjI
Against my better judgement, for the sake of self promotion I submit for your viewing a new Youtube video I made about Captain Kirk. I expect it will be dissected in typical DTF fashion. :lol
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f3jmxX8CIjI
I offer my body to you for any sexual activity you may imagine.
Have my babies blob.
I've began to wonder if the entire franchise should be abandoned by both the fan base, and the production companies alike. It doesn't appear that any of the production companies are willing to honor the defining spirit that established the show, and the fan base is never going to be satisfied with the watered-down product that their going to receive. It might be time to put a nail in the coffin lid, and call it a day.
Option number one would make me a happy boy. I'm honestly confused why it's never happened.
Option number one would make me a happy boy. I'm honestly confused why it's never happened.
Because ST has a niche audience. They can't make as much money on a true ST show as they can as the action/melodrama in space that they've been making since 2009.
:facepalm:It's proper ST as much as the JJ movies were. It's created under the same license, and the Bad Robot movies had the same restrictions. The whole thing's pretty screwy. The result of mergers and spin-offs between Paramount, Viacom, and CBS. CBS owns all of the IP, save for the ten movies which belong to Paramount. Bad Robot operates under a special licensing agreement where they get to use much of the IP but have to keep away from the shows already produced. This is what STD is trying to do, but they've opted to reboot the entire thing, yet again.
Though this does finally explain why the Klingons look nothing at all like Klingons.
Is this even an actual Star Trek show? I have no idea how the rights work, but how can it be an official Star Trek show without being allowed to resemble Star Trek?
The show will probably do fine. Fans of the new stuff will love it. Old fans will watch it just to spite it.
Ratings will mix from worst thing ever to amazing and brilliant. They'll make plenty of money and keep things going.
I doubt it'll get the ax.
As I said, I don't really know how the whole thing works when it's only streaming. Maybe I'm just being too optimistic that they'll let it die. :lol
I don't even know what Iron Fist is, but I assume it was bad.
The show will probably do fine. Fans of the new stuff will love it. Old fans will watch it just to spite it.Apparently there are test screenings that suggest otherwise. They found that JJ, Prime, and non-fans all hated it equally. I think they found only about a third of the people who saw it would actually watch it.
Ratings will mix from worst thing ever to amazing and brilliant. They'll make plenty of money and keep things going.
I doubt it'll get the ax.
Can I quickly complain, just a little, how the newest ST trend for the past 10 or so years is to worship strictly the Kirk era stuff? It's great stuff, but I think ST really found its voice between TNG, DS9 and stuff. But it's no longer okay to like that stuff. It's only cool to like the classics. It would be like only liking Adam West era Batman and ignoring Keaton onward. I dunno, I just find it a bit annoying that there's SO much focus on the Kirk era stuff, and the rest of ST is essentially ignored at this point. Outside of some facepalm memes, that is.I have no idea where that's coming from. I haven't seen it and I'm not saying as such. I guess you're speaking of other Star Trek circles. While I wouldn't say that ST caught its stride with TNG, that's mostly because it was a different race altogether after 20 years. Still, I regard the subsequent series just as highly, and in some cases more-so, as TOS. My loyalty is to the prime universe as apposed to JJ's Transformers in Space series. If they were making any series within that universe, regardless of when it's set, I'd be quite excited about it. Hell, I'm excited about Orville, which has far more to do with ST and that universe than STD.
Say what you will about Bill's abilities, but the man gave a great performance.
I don't think that is accurate. Everything I've read is that Harve Bennett watched all the episodes and came up with the idea for a follow up to Space Seed. He didn't feel it had a satisfying resolution, and of course it had the most formidable and compelling antagonist.
You said Meyer went through the shows when it was Bennett. But Meyer had to watch the show as well since he only knew it as the show with the pointy ear guy.
What kind of people are those that got in on this, though? Regular ST fans or journos?
Is this strictly a CBS.com view? Or is there another service streaming it?
I could not be less interested in STD at this stage. Unless the twist is that the entire show is actually Spock's nightmare, I don't think there's anything that can salvage it, even based on what I've seen so far.
The main character alone already takes it to almost breaking point, shoe-horning in some random made up connection to Spock/Sarek (because that worked so well for TFF), creating a seemingly incredibly dull and unrelatable character for an actor coming off a role a lot of people already disliked, but at least they're patting themselves on the back for diversity (which is great and all, but it doesn't automatically make for a good show).
The designs are wrong out of necessity or just because some first time designer wants to follow the latest Hollywood trend, which if they had any respect for the franchise would have been reason enough to rethink the entire idea. They wanted to have their cake and eat it too setting it near TOS, but ended up with the worst of both worlds.
Half of the people involved have either bailed or been fired at various points in production, and many accounts have backed up how much of a mess the whole production has been.
If this show is even mediocre, it will be a miracle.
Yep, that's what I've wanted from the start. They've boxed themselves in worse than Enterprise here, and pulling it off was never going to be easy. Set it post-Nemesis/Voyager, and you can basically do whatever in regards to plot and designs.
My biggest issue is the time setting, how much can they do when we already know what the immediate (and distant) future holds. Set it post anything we've seen in the Star Trek universe, then you can do interesting things like destroy Star Fleet for example.
Also the obvious advancements in effects and visuals aren't so jarring if the show is set further in the future. TOS is limited to what we thought the future would look like from a 1960's view point. Whereas TNG is looking though a 1980's view point - the advancement in visuals, knowledge and technology kind off makes sense as TNG is set after TOS. Discovery should be using all our new knowledge to represent what we think the future looks like from a 2017 perspective - instead it's going to have to limit itself to fitting in with the 1960's future.These would be valid points were it not for the fact that we already know they don't care about any existing canon or style. They're not boxed in because walls don't exist to them. TPTB have already said that we're looking at a different reality based on some goings on with Sarek. When this one crawls across the finish line they'll announce that it was just the first in an anthology, and the next season will be some completely different story in some completely different ST themed reality because. . . Sarek. The next installment could be centered around Ensign Luke Skywalker serving aboard the Starship Galactica for all they care.
Obviously Discovery has completely ignored the visual look of 1960s TOS (except for the hand props, which look excellent) and is just making it look like the new Trek movies. It would have been a hard balance to look both modern and yet consistent with TOS. Definitely possible, but more trouble than they would have put into it. This is why it's never made much sense to go backwards.
Apparently a while back one of the producers, trying to reassure people, announced to the press that they'd hired a staff of Trekies to make sure that the new show didn't step on canon or do something completely contradictory. Only hours later the word got out that the gal was Spock's half sister. :lol
STD has been getting mostly positive or glowing reviews so far! I did not see that coming. :lol
STD has been getting mostly positive or glowing reviews so far! I did not see that coming. :lol
Ummmm from who? :lol I'm guessing people who never watched Star Trek pre-JJ? :lol
How will I ever live?
Also, did anyone else find the dialogue really painfully forced a lot of the time?
Also, did anyone else find the dialogue really painfully forced a lot of the time?
There was a fair bit of exposition, but as it was the pilot I'm willing to accept that for now.
The even sadder part is that Michael Dorn was offered a role on Discovery, but it was such an abysmal sum that he turned it down.
CBS doesn't understand the long time fanbase, they want to bring in all of the casual fans who are familiar with the new movies. They assume the diehard fans will pay up and watch whatever they dish out simply because it bears the Star Trek name.
Maybe the time has passed for the TNG/DS9/VOY era, but it still would have made more sense to me to do something fresh and move forward in the timeline with full creative freedom, than to half-ass a prequel.
What kills me, Blob, is that you have a guy like Michael Dorn who has said on multiple occasions that he'd play Worf again in a heartbeat.
Don't tell me you couldn't center a Trek series on Worf and his Starfleet career, with a few TNG and DS9 starts having recurring roles. Of course you could. And people would watch. Imagine the attention an episode that has "Admiral Picard" starring in it. It'd be huge. But you could base it around Worf, who I feel had the most interesting story to still continue to tell following DS9's ending.
Paramount fumbled, and instead of seeing the answer (IMO) that is staring them in the face, they keep trying to do something different.
Just started watching Season 3 of TNG. Season 2 wasn't so bad, I actually quite enjoyed it.
What kills me, Blob, is that you have a guy like Michael Dorn who has said on multiple occasions that he'd play Worf again in a heartbeat.\
Don't tell me you couldn't center a Trek series on Worf and his Starfleet career, with a few TNG and DS9 starts having recurring roles. Of course you could. And people would watch.
What kills me, Blob, is that you have a guy like Michael Dorn who has said on multiple occasions that he'd play Worf again in a heartbeat.\
Don't tell me you couldn't center a Trek series on Worf and his Starfleet career, with a few TNG and DS9 starts having recurring roles. Of course you could. And people would watch.
I can't be the only one who would find this awful. It would be an implicit admission that they got nothing, and have to cling to the old storylines.
What kills me, Blob, is that you have a guy like Michael Dorn who has said on multiple occasions that he'd play Worf again in a heartbeat.\
Don't tell me you couldn't center a Trek series on Worf and his Starfleet career, with a few TNG and DS9 starts having recurring roles. Of course you could. And people would watch.
I can't be the only one who would find this awful. It would be an implicit admission that they got nothing, and have to cling to the old storylines.
A lot of people like Worf, and ST: The Adventures of Worf could be pretty cool. You can call it clinging to the old storylines, or just sticking with an established character and universe. Giving the people more of what they want, rather than taking a chance on some unknown thing and possibly botching it.
That's a strange argument. Because the ToS crew had two great movies (in 1986 and 1991), we should just ignore 7 years of a TV show?
I think that setup was a poor idea considering it's behind a paywall in the US and they're trying to hook people in.
Orbert is suggesting instead of a making Discovery they should make the new show focusing on the old cast.
Orbert is suggesting instead of a making Discovery they should make the new show focusing on the old cast.
No, I'm not suggesting that at all.
I was responding to Rumby's statement that "It would be an implicit admission that they got nothing, and have to cling to the old storylines." Worf had spin-off potential, and keeping established characters is not the same as clinging to the old storylines. For some reason, you cut off the part where I said that it doesn't make any sense to do it now.
I think that setup was a poor idea considering it's behind a paywall in the US and they're trying to hook people in.
Yeah that's weird. Over here in the UK it's just on Netflix one day after it's shown in the US.
I will not pay at all. I pay for CBS through my cable. It's extortion.
Orbert is suggesting instead of a making Discovery they should make the new show focusing on the old cast.
No, I'm not suggesting that at all.
I was responding to Rumby's statement that "It would be an implicit admission that they got nothing, and have to cling to the old storylines." Worf had spin-off potential, and keeping established characters is not the same as clinging to the old storylines. For some reason, you cut off the part where I said that it doesn't make any sense to do it now.
Sorry my bad.
I haven’t watched he new series but I’ll check it out this weekend. One thing I forgot about my season 2 round up of TNG is that I can’t believe they ended on a clip show.
I haven’t watched he new series but I’ll check it out this weekend. One thing I forgot about my season 2 round up of TNG is that I can’t believe they ended on a clip show.
Writer’s strike. No one’s proud of that pile of turds.
So aside from having a races called Klingon and Vulcan, is there actually anything Star Trek about this? As it stands now, I'm not even interested enough in it to spend 5 minutes steeling it, but if there's potential then I might give it a shot.
So aside from having a races called Klingon and Vulcan, is there actually anything Star Trek about this?
So aside from having a races called Klingon and Vulcan, is there actually anything Star Trek about this?
Well the doors go SWOOSH!!! ;D
One of the more interesting aspects of the two episodes so far is......we still don't really know what or how this show will work. Basically those two episodes were a prologue, we've not yet seen the 'Discovery' ship, we haven't meet most of the cast/crew - the Captain and the Klingon who looked to be setting up as the main antagonist are both dead (presumably). I expect the next episode will tell us a lot more about the show going forwards than these first two have.
So aside from having a races called Klingon and Vulcan, is there actually anything Star Trek about this?
Well the doors go SWOOSH!!! ;D
I honestly don't think it's that far off the mark, I mean it is if you're thinking TNG but there were many points of DS9 and Voyager, and the films that were buried in politics, and war.
The Undiscovered Country to me is one of the best Star Trek had to offer and I wouldn't say discovery was far off from that film. Political intrigue, pushing war, racial unification.
Undiscovered country was a fair bit more intricate and there was some revenge in the mix.
That's certainly true, and beyond that it can be said that DS9 wasn't actually about the war, even during the last 3 seasons. It was still Star Trek. They were still dealing with sci-fi type stuff. Half of any of those seasons is still in the same vein as TOS or TNG. The same can be said of ENT's 3rd season; the one everybody liked. Half the episodes dealt with the Xindi and half of them were typical ST type shows. Hell, in the middle of the Xindi story they cranked out probably the best episode of the series which was just about textbook TNG.So aside from having a races called Klingon and Vulcan, is there actually anything Star Trek about this?
Well the doors go SWOOSH!!! ;D
I honestly don't think it's that far off the mark, I mean it is if you're thinking TNG but there were many points of DS9 and Voyager, and the films that were buried in politics, and war.
The Undiscovered Country to me is one of the best Star Trek had to offer and I wouldn't say discovery was far off from that film. Political intrigue, pushing war, racial unification.
Undiscovered country was a fair bit more intricate and there was some revenge in the mix.
But those shows earned the war. They built that up and made it about the people involve and the ramifications of war on society.
I mean, if DS9 opened up on the Dominion war, we would have cared way less about it. What made it great was seeing characters you've very much established slowly lose or hold on to their humanity in times of moral ambiguity.
So you can completely ignore all nuance and context and just say "they're both war, so what's the difference?" but then you'll continue to be confused as to why people aren't treating them the same way.
Other Trek had these elements, but they were also built upon a lot of elements that Discovery so far is lacking, so it doesn't have the context to work in the same way it did in previous series.
One of the more interesting aspects of the two episodes so far is......we still don't really know what or how this show will work. Basically those two episodes were a prologue, we've not yet seen the 'Discovery' ship, we haven't meet most of the cast/crew - the Captain and the Klingon who looked to be setting up as the main antagonist are both dead (presumably). I expect the next episode will tell us a lot more about the show going forwards than these first two have.
My biggest fear about where the show is going to go is all the "action" poses I see in the trailer for the next episode, and the sheer absurdity that someone in her position, in any imagination of human military existence, would ever be serving aboard a ship, ever again.
I'm not seeing a problem in either of those cases (besides Wil Wheaton just being all around a shitty character :lol).
However this would at least be in line with rest of the JJ universe, with Star Trek 11 giving Captain Kirk command of the Enterprise after cheating his way onto the ship, getting ejected into space, illegally breaking his way back in via transwarp beaming (which was a dumb idea that should never have been added), being a dick to the captain to incite him to punch him, then assuming command of the ship with no authority. Definitely the kind of guy you want in charge of the flagship of the fleet.
Oh no, it was massively dumb. :lol
Besides, it's more excusable for a short lived 1960s scifi TV show to do something silly, than for a big budget modern Hollywood movie. The JJ universe in general is plagued with this kind of stuff.
Big dumb Hollywood action movie plots are not part of the charm of Star Trek for me, sorry. This is why the series have always been infinitely superior to the films, even the older ones.
Speaking of which, I'll hopefully be seeing the anniversary screening of TWOK in a week. :hat Never seen it at the cinema of course, since I wasn't born when it came out!
Speaking of which, I'll hopefully be seeing the anniversary screening of TWOK in a week. :hat Never seen it at the cinema of course, since I wasn't born when it came out!
Phasers on Kill
Big dumb Hollywood action movie plots are not part of the charm of Star Trek for me, sorry. This is why the series have always been infinitely superior to the films, even the older ones.
That's fair enough, we differ there. I'd put Wrath of Khan and First Contact on a par with the very best episodes of their respective shows.
Speaking of which, I'll hopefully be seeing the anniversary screening of TWOK in a week. :hat Never seen it at the cinema of course, since I wasn't born when it came out!
Phasers on Kill
For making me feel old you taHqeq! :lol
Why you wanna do that? Because I'm seeing TWOK, or because I'm that much younger than you? :lol
* The worst part in ST09 for me is the coincidence of Kirk just happening across prime Spock!
* The worst part in ST09 for me is the coincidence of Kirk just happening across prime Spock!
I loved that. Kirk and Spock were butting heads so severely up until that point, so it was nice to see the older Spock give him some advice and tell him that they become very good friends and that he needs Spock in his life and vice versa. It was a good way to communicate that element (since it wasn't going to develop naturally based on how each character was relating to the other) and give Leonard Nimoy a cameo and remain very important to the Kirk/Spock relationship.
Still can't watch it, but here's what I've heard from the critics I generally trust.
People who know nothing but the JJ movies seem to think it's good popcorn entertainment.
People who really like ST are pretty insulted by the whole thing.
Of course there are obvious exceptions. I'm sure there's a few ST fans in this thread alone who absolutely adore STD.
Don't mince words, Blob, what do you really think?
Still can't watch it, but here's what I've heard from the critics I generally trust.
People who know nothing but the JJ movies seem to think it's good popcorn entertainment.
People who really like ST are pretty insulted by the whole thing.
Of course there are obvious exceptions. I'm sure there's a few ST fans in this thread alone who absolutely adore STD.
I think as far as generalizations go, that's about right, and of course there are exceptions on both sides. I've seen life time fans who are enjoying STD so far (dare I say some of the older crowd aren't quite as picky with their entertainment), and maybe there are JJ fans who don't think it has enough explosions or something.
If this was just a new generic scifi drama series, it's passable enough as a poor man's BSG I suppose, and if they just admitted it was JJ universe, maybe I could tolerate the setting, but as prime universe Star Trek, it's impossibly jarring to try and reconcile this with anything we've seen from the first 40 years of the franchise which this claims to connect to.Don't mince words, Blob, what do you really think?
:lol I only wish you were suffering through this too, for support.
As for the whole spores thing, we know it's not gonna work, don't we? Unless they are willing to ignore decades and hundreds of episodes of Star Trek.
I thought they just changed writing staff after 3/4 episodes, but I do recall there some change at that point. It will be interesting to see how much of a noticeable difference there is, although it's a moot point for me, as the show is basically irredeemable at this point.
Michael is a few episodes away from becoming a perfect Mary Sue, ala Star Wars.
I thought they just changed writing staff after 3/4 episodes, but I do recall there some change at that point. It will be interesting to see how much of a noticeable difference there is, although it's a moot point for me, as the show is basically irredeemable at this point.I had actually heard the term "second pilot" bandied about. As I understand it, the first couple of episodes served as a sort of prelude, which would certainly support the idea of a serious retool. I also heard that some of the casting was changed afterward, but that would have been fixed by reshooting certain scenes. It's also possible that the first thee episodes filmed were condensed into one or two that actually aired.
I thought they just changed writing staff after 3/4 episodes, but I do recall there some change at that point. It will be interesting to see how much of a noticeable difference there is, although it's a moot point for me, as the show is basically irredeemable at this point.I had actually heard the term "second pilot" bandied about. As I understand it, the first couple of episodes served as a sort of prelude, which would certainly support the idea of a serious retool. I also heard that some of the casting was changed afterward, but that would have been fixed by reshooting certain scenes. It's also possible that the first thee episodes filmed were condensed into one or two that actually aired.
Hmm If episode 4 is another 'pilot' episode, this will start to get odd.....The first two episodes were the official pilot (being the first episodes and all....) yet they felt more like a prologue, the 3rd episode felt more like a proper pilot (meeting the crew and ship) - now we will have another pilot for episode 4. A tonal shift after 3 episodes isn't great, but as long as they don't recon it into something that looks and feels like the Big Bang Theory doing Star Trek cosplay (we already have The Orville for that :biggrin:) I'm OK with it.If that's the way it's gone then I suspect that second pilot was episode 3 and you should be seeing some continuity now. That jibes with the "retooling after 3 episodes" thing. Presumably the prologue was their original idea (Fuller, perhaps?), and when Moonves decided it was crap they moved along to the new story.
Episode 4 of the Next Gen was the amazingly bad taste 'Code of Honor' with all it's racist glory. There is noway they can create anything worse.........surely.
Out of curiosity, was the Chinese captain part of the prologue and now we're onto Isaacs? That guy's been kind of a dick with his upfront attitude that trekkies can go fuck themselves. This is the guy that gleefully posted that they were going to dump all over the legacy of Kirk and Picard.
* The worst part in ST09 for me is the coincidence of Kirk just happening across prime Spock!
I loved that. Kirk and Spock were butting heads so severely up until that point, so it was nice to see the older Spock give him some advice and tell him that they become very good friends and that he needs Spock in his life and vice versa. It was a good way to communicate that element (since it wasn't going to develop naturally based on how each character was relating to the other) and give Leonard Nimoy a cameo and remain very important to the Kirk/Spock relationship.
It was also super duper contrived that he happened to get jettisoned in that exact same area of space, land on the same planet (or moon or whatever it was), and happened to be within walking distance and stumble across him. But that's typical JJ story telling for you.
He landed on a PLANET and found him. I live in LA, and so do most major Hollywood actors. I never run into them. Ever.
The odds of them finding each other on the same planet, totally by chance, is still astronomical.
He landed on a PLANET and found him. I live in LA, and so do most major Hollywood actors. I never run into them. Ever.
The odds of them finding each other on the same planet, totally by chance, is still astronomical.
If there were ONLY you and one other guy in LA, and the rest of it was abandoned. I think you'd have a much better chance of running into each other. And if there was a third guy in the only building left standing....chances of all three of you bumping into each other just went WAAAAYYYY up.
I believe that "only building standing" shrinks that time by quite a bit because everybody is going to be looking for shelter.
Then, add to that nothing in the movies happens real time. So now you're bringing in a phenomenon that's from just about every film ever made.
I am only pointing out logic. Granted it is MOVIE logic (especially where the time line is concerned), but some of the rest of it isn't that big of a stretch and I honestly think it's one of the lesser points to be bothered by. I mean, the "red matter" I can kinda get. But given the factors that I've made clear, I honestly don't think it's [Spock and Kirk meeting] as big a stretch as you and Blob have made it out to be.
I didn't even really bring it up in the first place. You guys had just been talking about it earlier. And as I was watching it today, a couple of things leaped out at me that made me go, "hey, that really isn't as big a deal as they tried to say it was." I mean, TO ME anyway.
I wish we had "tone in text" because I'm being very chill and even a little bit giggle-y, and I dont' think that's coming across.
He landed on a PLANET and found him. I live in LA, and so do most major Hollywood actors. I never run into them. Ever.
The odds of them finding each other on the same planet, totally by chance, is still astronomical.
It was dumb. The movie was dumb.
It may have been fun. It may have been well made. It may have been likable. It was also very very dumb.
To me, ST09 is not much different than the first Transformers. Big dumb movie that is enjoyable if you completely turn off your brain.
Into Darkness crossed the line into too dumb to enjoy (for me) and Beyond went back to dumb but enjoyable for the most part. I just miss the days when ST wasn't so dumb and it didn't require the brain being turned off, and it wasn't just big popcorn entertainment.
Well the new episode of STD wasn't any better than the last one, just the same old garbage. I can't say it was any worse, because once you hit the bottom of the barrel, there's no further you can go.
Hey writers, "drama" doesn't mean everyone has to be a complete bitch to each other at all times. Nobody on this show is even remotely likable, except for Doug Jones' tall alien dude, and that's no thanks to the writing.
I thought the idea of a spore drive engine was bad, but a spore drive engine that can only be navigated by a giant tardigrade monster? What the fuck is this shit? Thoroughly junk, and not even original junk. The Klingon scenes are beyond tedious to sit through.
I feel like this whole show is just taking a dive to win a bet. There is literally zero entertainment value in this show so far.
Next week will have "Mudd" in it, or should I say, it has a character named Mudd in it. I can already tell that one 's going to be a joy to sit through.
Discovery is improving each episode so far. Actually really enjoyed episode 4, there was a more 'Star Trek' feel to this episode, we got some Science discussion and some ethical questions! The Klingon B-Plot was also good, still not sold on their appearance at all, but they are interesting. Couple of 'Didn't see that coming' moments as well.
It could certainly wind up being a better series.
But you trust me don't you, Adami?
Including myself, there's (I think) 5 people posting here for the most part.
I haven't see it. I don't think El Barto has seen it.
Blob hates it.
The other two dudes absolutely love it.
Discovery is improving each episode so far. Actually really enjoyed episode 4, there was a more 'Star Trek' feel to this episode, we got some Science discussion and some ethical questions! The Klingon B-Plot was also good, still not sold on their appearance at all, but they are interesting. Couple of 'Didn't see that coming' moments as well.
I fast-forward through the Klingon crap since the second episode. Little seems to be said and it drags and they'll eventually show the result of these boring scenes anyway so what's the point in torturing myself by sitting through them? The honorable klingons betraying their leader for some chicken McNuggets...
I’m halfway done through season 3 of TNG and it’s pretty awful, I think season 2 was better. I hope the second half of season 3 picks up.Wow, really? I'll definitely admit that Season 3, like any season of TNG, has its fair share of clunkers, but I think there's some legitimately good television in there. Though, looking at the list of episodes in season 3, it appears that most of my favorites are in the second half so maybe you'll like those better.
STD just got renewed for a second season. I guess like many other STDs, this will keep coming back. :sadpanda:
I didn't mind the swearing. Purely because one of the great missed opportunities of TNG was Picard telling Wesley to 'Get the fuck off my bridge'. ;D
Captain Picard was too classy for that kind of foul language! He'll own you with his eloquence.
Captain Picard was too classy for that kind of foul language! He'll own you with his eloquence.
You should see Stewart on Blunt Talk. You'd lose your cookies hearing his foul mouth.
Lets face it, Star Trek of the past cannot exist in this modern world that we live in. Outside the select few of us, nobody would watch TNG, if it were made today.
Lets face it, Star Trek of the past cannot exist in this modern world that we live in. Outside the select few of us, nobody would watch TNG, if it were made today.
Star Trek's values and morals could definitely still exist in a show, but they require an intelligence and creativity far beyond what these hack writers are shitting out. Those values are more relevant than ever, especially to millennials.
The Orville is basically modern TNG with a dash of comedy anyway, and I think there's definitely a place for it among the generic bleak sameyness of today's shows.
Star Trek's values and morals could definitely still exist in a show, but they require an intelligence and creativity far beyond what these hack writers are shitting out. Those values are more relevant than ever, especially to millennials.
The Orville is basically modern TNG with a dash of comedy anyway, and I think there's definitely a place for it among the generic bleak sameyness of today's shows.
Being episodic is not a core problem, even if it's not your personal preference. Not everything needs to be serialized, nor should it be. Why is being able to watch an individual episode without missing anything a problem? I consider that a huge plus for rewatch value. An individual episode of classic Trek says more than Discovery has said in 6 so far.
It's pretty funny how everyone thought that Discovery would be pretty much dead on arrival, including the producers..
Now it has a pretty decent following, as far as i understand. I wouldn't be surprised if this gets a season 2 or more.
I still haven't seen it so i can't say anything about it..
Episodic is fine, but it's the lack of character growth that bugs me. No one learns, no one develops over the show. Troi, La Forge, Crusher and even Riker are the worst culprits for this.
It probably felt somewhat Trekky because Trek has done it before. :lol And better. But I do much prefer them doingmore straight up scifi stuff like this, than the rest of the drama/war stuff.
I forgot to mention the sillyness of the time travel device just disappearing once the half hour loop limit expired. Hm ok.
Also Mudd's helmet was funky. A stolen Andorian helmet perhaps? I dug the design.
So are there actually standalone episodes in this? I have very little hope for it, but if it is't entirely built around their silly Klingon concept I might check a couple out.
Releasing the time loop comedy relief episode so soon? Hmm... Also, for a ship and a show called Discovery, they aren't doing much discovering. I'm still pissed that they decided to make this during a war and not post-TNG/DS9.
Yeah, it just doesn't fit the dark brooding war theme they've set up. Their few attempts at humour have fallen completely flat.
I don't see it winning over more fans. People who already liked it from the start are enjoying it more than initially, but I haven't seen detractors warm to it. The majority of Trek fans I know think it's weak, and many others simply aren't watching it at all (including in this thread), or abandoned it after a few episodes, perhaps leaving the impression of a more positive reception.
The show has improved a little since the start, but when you set the bar at rock bottom, there is literally nowhere to go but up. The opening two parter was about a 1/10, whereas the best has been maybe a 4/10 in my book. The best of this show is about equivalent to a lower/average S1/2 episode of Enterprise.
Yeah, the first two seasons of TNG were bad, but they were still Star Trek, and under the circumstances it was understandable and forgivable. Discovery doesn't have the potential that TNG did even through the crap. It has betrayed Star Trek on every single level to the point of being irredeemable to me, and there's no excuse for it besides pandering to the GOT crowd that doesn't care for or get Trek. You could give it 7 seasons (god forbid), and it would still be an abomination. Gene Roddenberry would be rolling in his grave to see what his vision has become.
And I'm still genuinely haunted by the image of Klingon tits. Like, how does this even happen? Why? How? I........ I just can't even find the words to express how low this is for the franchise. It makes the Duras sisters and their boob window attire look classy and tasteful by comparison.
Yeah, the first two seasons of TNG were bad, but they were still Star Trek, and under the circumstances it was understandable and forgivable. Discovery doesn't have the potential that TNG did even through the crap. It has betrayed Star Trek on every single level to the point of being irredeemable to me, and there's no excuse for it besides pandering to the GOT crowd that doesn't care for or get Trek. You could give it 7 seasons (god forbid), and it would still be an abomination. Gene Roddenberry would be rolling in his grave to see what his vision has become.
And I'm still genuinely haunted by the image of Klingon tits. Like, how does this even happen? Why? How? I........ I just can't even find the words to express how low this is for the franchise. It makes the Duras sisters and their boob window attire look classy and tasteful by comparison.
Nah I disagree. Roddenberrys new vision for TNG was the major problem with the first two seasons of that show, his perfect utopian humanity with no conflict rule meant boring writing, which Hurley then followed it slavishly. When Hurley left and people like Piller, Moore and Ira Steven Behr joined for season 3 and undid the shackles of Gene's vision, only then did the show improve and actually started winning over the fans. If they'd followed Roddenberrys vision I doubt TNG would have survived much beyond season 3, even with it's odd syndication style.
Roddenberrys vision for TOS and TNG were very different things.
But honestly, some of the best episodes didn't involve any space battles - Q episodes, The Inner Light, Parallels, Family, Sarek, Darmok...
Beings like Q, traversing parallel universes and the amount of time travelling that happens constantly in ST is why it's impossible to say what is canon and what isn't!
Beings like Q, traversing parallel universes and the amount of time travelling that happens constantly in ST is why it's impossible to say what is canon and what isn't!
It's really not. That's a lazy cop-out excuse.
I think my favorite Q episode is the one where he loses his powers and chooses human form (aboard the Enterprise of course) to live out his now-mortal days.
Seasons 3,4 and 5 are the golden years of TNG! So many great episodes!
Further proof these people have absolutely no idea what Star Trek is about. Star Trek is not compatible with Tarantino, like at all.
QT's last movie isn't going to be Star Trek.
And I'm starting to accept that ST just isn't good for the movie format. You need the series format to smooth things out between the good, the bad, and the average.
Rascals. Oh lawdy.
I don't recall Homebound at all (from a quick Google I believe you mean Homeward?), been too long since I've watched them all. Obviously wasn't a stand-out.
I just googled what number episode rascals is so I can make sure I'm blackout drunk during the episode
I just googled what number episode rascals is so I can make sure I'm blackout drunk during the episode
Or just skip it bro. :lol
No I’ve made it a mission to watch all the eps lol
Everyone says they're a big TOS fan (except for JJ who openly hated it, which showed in how much he shat all over it). It was a popular show in the 60s/70s. It doesn't mean they get it on a deeper level level, or are capable of writing a proper Trek movie.
Everyone says they're a big TOS fan (except for JJ who openly hated it, which showed in how much he shat all over it). It was a popular show in the 60s/70s. It doesn't mean they get it on a deeper level level, or are capable of writing a proper Trek movie.
I don't like Tarantino, and what I've seen of his work is the polar opposite of what Trek represents, and he belongs nowhere near the franchise. Making it R rated is further evidence that this is going off course. Discovery had the same freedom, and we got Klingon sex scenes and Starfleet members randomly blurting out the F word for shock value, and not a shred of true Trek to be found.
Screw it. I say go for it. If ST is going to die, let it go out in a blaze of Terrentino glory. I want people calling Uhura the N word. I want 90's hand guns suddenly in use by Klingons. I want a scene where Spock is literally covered head to toe in Romulan blood after massacring them with a sword. I want a 45 minute scene of Chekov and Sulu talking about complete nonsense while helming the enterprise as they pilot it into a black hole. I want Sam Jackson as the enemy. I want all of this.
Christoph Waltz as a Vorta for the win. Yeah, I know they're from a different series, but Paramount probably doesn't and what difference does it make anyway. Sam Jackson can be a Jem Hadar first. "Victory is LIFE, BITCH!"
Screw it. I say go for it. If ST is going to die, let it go out in a blaze of Terrentino glory. I want people calling Uhura the N word. I want 90's hand guns suddenly in use by Klingons. I want a scene where Spock is literally covered head to toe in Romulan blood after massacring them with a sword. I want a 45 minute scene of Chekov and Sulu talking about complete nonsense while helming the enterprise. I want Sam Jackson as the enemy. I want all of this.
Christoph Waltz as a Vorta for the win. Yeah, I know they're from a different series, but Paramount probably doesn't and what difference does it make anyway. Sam Jackson can be a Jem Hadar first. "Victory is LIFE, BITCH!"YES!
Harvey Keitel as a backroom Borg vivisectionist implanting technology while he smokes Pall Mall reds.So Much YES!
:lol wtf. We're now venturing into "so bad it's good" territory here.
What other bad ideas can we pitch for this movie that are still somewhat realistic?
Steve Buscemi as a Ferengi? He's got the teeth for it already.
Steve Buscemi as a Ferengi? He's got the teeth for it already.
That is inspired.
As far as I know Tarantino is neither writing nor directing this.
The actor who played the kid Alexander Rozhenko in TNG has died. It doesn't state a cause of death, but he had some problems didn't he? Pretty sad.I could be wrong, but I don't think he was the troubled one. Seems like the kid that went astray was a Hispanic guy, and I think he might have been in Colorado.
https://www.startrek.com/article/remembering-tng-actor-jon-paul-steuer
Given the stuff at the start, I'm guessing they've ended up in the mirror universe or something? It would bust some people's wishful thinking that this show takes place in the mirror universe (which is a dumb idea anyway, since the mirror universe NEVER had a Federation).
Oh god, Discovery is back. :mehlinGiven the stuff at the start, I'm guessing they've ended up in the mirror universe or something? It would bust some people's wishful thinking that this show takes place in the mirror universe (which is a dumb idea anyway, since the mirror universe NEVER had a Federation).
Looks like I was right, as obvious as it was anyway.
So now they've screwed up with two universes! Wrong uniforms again. Wrong Terran empire logo. At least they're acknowledging Enterprise, although having to acknowledge Enterprise is never good. :lol
More mindless deaths because GOT. Looks like that guy is a Klingon turned human? Although going by The Trouble With Tribbles, it should be easily detectable by a DNA scan, not that well hidden. The Constitution design was wrong. No wonder they tried to disguise it in wireframe. Still much better than the other JJ enterpise designs though.
Whoring? It's called getting work.
Oh god, please don't call it Disco! :lol
Who's left out of the Trek actor directors? Roxanne Dawson, Levar Burton, they could make a season of it!
Oh god, please don't call it Disco! :lolIt's easier to ask who didn't direct an episode. Troi, Data, Kira, Janeway, Seven, and Chakote seem to be about the only ones. It's interesting to look at their directorial resumes. Picard did mostly bad ones. Tim Russ only directed one episode, but it was the very good Living Witness where he demonstrated some talent. Worf and Cisko both seemed to be far better at directing than acting, hitting mostly long balls. I'd say they're both more consistent than Tores, Paris, and Geordi.
I get the feeling that him directing an episode of STD was token fan-service to bring in fans, just like the string of "executive producer" credits etc they handed out like candy to ex-Trek people when the show was first being announced, all of which amounted to nothing. They might throw him another episode in S2 for the same reason.
I could definitely see Orville getting him again though, as they've maintained that strong Trek connection throughout. They've had him, and Robert Duncan McNeill. Who's left out of the Trek actor directors? Roxanne Dawson, Levar Burton, they could make a season of it!
I didn't realize Brooks directed any/many episodes. Actors often direct a episode of a show they're in for the hell of it, but often don't pursue it further. It's a wonder that Brooks directed so many episodes of DS9, then never directed anything else. If you look at some of the ones already mentioned, they've gone on to have quite successful directing careers outside of Trek, doing a lot of major mainstream shows.I don't think it's really for the hell of it. I know there's a ST Director's school, and they pick and choose who gets to give it a shot. I think Tuvok had to ask and ask and ask. My hunch is that if you're a no-name ST actor, McNeil or Briggs, for example, you very likely use it to add another option to your career. It's the diehard ac-tors' that only want to act, very likely Brooks, who don't view it as a future path.
I didn't realize Brooks directed any/many episodes. Actors often direct a episode of a show they're in for the hell of it, but often don't pursue it further. It's a wonder that Brooks directed so many episodes of DS9, then never directed anything else. If you look at some of the ones already mentioned, they've gone on to have quite successful directing careers outside of Trek, doing a lot of major mainstream shows.I don't think it's really for the hell of it. I know there's a ST Director's school, and they pick and choose who gets to give it a shot. I think Tuvok had to ask and ask and ask. My hunch is that if you're a no-name ST actor, McNeil or Briggs, for example, you very likely use it to add another option to your career. It's the diehard ac-tors' that only want to act, very likely Brooks, who don't view it as a future path.
Really lame making the emperor that awful actress from the first couple of episodes. Not just because of her shitty acting, but because it makes the whole thing feel small and narrow. What a coincidence the emperor of the entire Terran empire happens to be one of the closest people to Michael and also bringing back a dead character. Yawn.
That said, these last two episodes have been more passable than the first half of the season, at the very least because there's less established in the mirror universe for them to shit on canon quite as hard.
That said, these last two episodes have been more passable than the first half of the season, at the very least because there's less established in the mirror universe for them to shit on canon quite as hard.
I liked the first half of the season a lot and didn't think I would at all. The first episode of the second half was a little hard for me to absorb but the second one was better. I just hope it doesn't end up being like the walking dead.
The first half of STD actually reminded me a lot of Fear The Walking Dead. Latest series in popular franchise, not good, characters I don't care about at all, badly written forced drama etc. At least I've seen some improvement in STD. Not holding my breath on FWTD or TWD though. :lol
Oh, for fuck's sake. The mirror universe thing that apparently isn't dreadful had me almost ready to watch this. Then they go and do something else to annoy the shit out of me. They should write an episode where Kang, the gorn, Apollo, and that chick from Andromeda team up to fight Trellain, Parmen, and Nomad for control of Emeniar 7. Tomalak can be the surprise spoiler for the 4th act.
The first half of STD actually reminded me a lot of Fear The Walking Dead. Latest series in popular franchise, not good, characters I don't care about at all, badly written forced drama etc. At least I've seen some improvement in STD. Not holding my breath on FWTD or TWD though. :lol
Season 2 of Discovery starring Jeffrey Dean Morgan as Q.
Off subject, I just finally saw the finale to Voyager this morning for the first time... It just ends and that's it. Did they abruptly pull the plug on that series? I never got into Voyager until recently.They knew the end was coming for a while. I think seven seasons was pretty much the established norm so they knew it'd be their last. Blob and I have discussed this a few times and the ending didn't bother me, though it could have been a better episode. TNG didn't really end, as the very next morning after the poker game would just be the same banal shit as usual for all of them. DS9 was the opposite, where everything changes at the end. However, they were able to make the series finale essentially 6 episodes long, so they had no problem spending a full hour doing an epilogue. VOY was like DS9, in that their story is over and they begin a new one, but it wasn't serialized. They had two hours to wrap everything up. They could make a one hour episode and spend the second telling how Chakote gets a job at the academy, Paris opens a night club, and Kim becomes XO on some ship somewhere, ending with a celebratory toast to friendship. Or, they could make a good 2 hour episode, and leave us to fill in the blanks. Like I said, I don't have a problem with that, but the episode should have been better.
I remember hearing about how bad the Enterprise finale was and thinking "oh I'm sure it's not that bad, it's just internet bitching" but nope, it was pretty fucking bad.
The two parter before that makes a much better ending, even if it's not intended as an actual finale.
I've never done a rewatch of S4, except for In a Mirror Darkly I think. Actually, S3 is the only one I've rewatched.
Enterprise, on the other hand, is my example of the worst actual ending to a show I've ever seen (that I can think of).
I never watched the series in order, I just went through each series individually in no particular order. I didn't even watch TOS in airing order, I started off by watching fan favourites first. Not a good idea in retrospect when I got to the remainder. :lolI still maintain that there is no proper order for TOS. As much as people bitch about the third season, they're all 3 a mixed bag, some slightly better than the others.
I still haven't watched any of TAS. One day.
I still maintain that there is no proper order for TOS. As much as people bitch about the third season, they're all 3 a mixed bag, some slightly better than the others.
And fuck it, I still maintain that Spock's Brain is a good fun episode that's no worse than the average. :lol
If big alien knockers endear you to a show then ENT might well be worth your time.
This was pretty funny! :biggrin:
https://youtu.be/v3Nv2R9Acec
I'd still take Enterprise over this garbage any day of the week. And it's got nothing on Voyager or any other real Trek series.
And what's horrific about saying real Trek? This show is absolutely not prime universe regardless of what they say, so therefore I don't consider it real Trek.
For the record, I'm very much looking forward to seeing the 13th Doctor Jodie Whitaker. :tup And Daniel Craig is real Bond, just not a good one. :biggrin:
I'd still take Enterprise over this garbage any day of the week. And it's got nothing on Voyager or any other real Trek series.
And whether it continues or not, I'm annoyed they didn't come up with a reason to ditch that stupid spore drive once and for all. Obviously this kind of drive is not viable in the future, and there needs to be a good reason beyond "Starfleet don't want to use people", because there are so many situations where that is not a reasonable excuse. It's dumb fantasy pseudo-science that has no place as a major story arc, and it makes no sense scientifically or visually. Why does the entire saucer section spin along he Y axis but then the entire ship spins around the Z axis? The VFX guys clearly don't give a shit.
:lol :lol What episode is that from?Similitude. After that, E2, First Flight, Observer Effect, and Carbon Creek are all very good episodes. Personally, I didn't much care for the tone of the overall series. They seemed to want to make a show for modern audiences, and I'm the furthest thing from a modern audience. There were still some good ones in there. In the meantime the JJ movies, and from the 120 seconds of it I've seen, STD both seem to be tailored even more for people that aren't me. The tone and the stylism just suck.
I still have only seen first 2 episodes of Discovery, and the pilot was decent. Broken Bow really set the stage for Enterprise. It felt like a fan made parody. Enterprise does get better in season 3, but I'm really struggling to find a singe great episode. in fact it feels very similar to the Orville, but Orville is very self aware of it's gags and humor. Enterprise was unintentionally funny!
Discovery based on the pilot, is already better than Enterprise. But it doesn't hold a candle to TNG, DS9 etc.
Really hated Doctor's Orders. Nearly as much as the VOY episode they ripped it off from. I just don't like episodes that revolve entirely around a single person.
And I wouldn't mind the need to keep jumping to action sequences, but the action sequences are just as bad about needing to put the ADD viewers into the middle of it. You can't even tell who's shooting at who anymore. Enterprise vs Reliant is an action sequence, yet it's paced in such a way that there's tension. You understand what both ships are doing. Once you get to JJ's movies you're just floating in space while shit flies around you so fast you can't comprehend. I always hated that phasers became blasters in his movies. It makes sense, though. Phasers are too slow to be chaotic and confusing, and that's what he relies upon.
Surprised to see the love for 'Carbon Creek'. Jolene Blalock is lovely to look at, but her limitations as an actress are really exposed in this episode, and it really hurts the story.
She's a crappy actress, but she mostly gets away just by being a Vulcan.Yup. I had no problem with her because she's just fine at being Vulcan. She would have had a much harder time being Seven, essentially the same character, but I couldn't see Jeri Ryan playing a convincing Vulcan, either. In the end, ST actors are essentially just the characters they create. If you invent Spock then playing Spock is a very simple task. Quinto had it much harder. Avery Brooks and Michael Dorn were godawful actors, but they were great as the characters they created. Blalock was fine as T'whatever.
Voyager improved a decent amount once they ditched the awful Kazon for S3,
People need to just get over Enterprise's theme song already. FFS it's just an intro, and it's not that bad.
Yup. Truly terrible. It cracked me up when Seven mentioned in passing that the Borg considered them unworthy of assimilation. They were a net negative. Hell, even the Neelixes of the galaxy were useful to the Borg. And interestingly, the original concept was pretty decent. Another example of Voyager ditching a good premise early on rather than playing it out. They were intended to be the Crips, Bloods, and half a dozen other gangs, competing for everything. Instead they just turned into really lame weekly bad guys.Voyager improved a decent amount once they ditched the awful Kazon for S3,Agreed, they're just hard to even look at characters.
I really think that with a proper theme song they might have gotten an extra season or two. It started the show off on a bad foot and continued to bring it down.QuotePeople need to just get over Enterprise's theme song already. FFS it's just an intro, and it's not that bad.
Yes it is :lol I find it aggravates me and I have to look for the remote to fast forward quickly
Yup. Truly terrible. It cracked me up when Seven mentioned in passing that the Borg considered them unworthy of assimilation. They were a net negative. Hell, even the Neelixes of the galaxy were useful to the Borg. And interestingly, the original concept was pretty decent. Another example of Voyager ditching a good premise early on rather than playing it out. They were intended to be the Crips, Bloods, and half a dozen other gangs, competing for everything. Instead they just turned into really lame weekly bad guys.Voyager improved a decent amount once they ditched the awful Kazon for S3,Agreed, they're just hard to even look at characters.QuoteI really think that with a proper theme song they might have gotten an extra season or two. It started the show off on a bad foot and continued to bring it down.QuotePeople need to just get over Enterprise's theme song already. FFS it's just an intro, and it's not that bad.
Yes it is :lol I find it aggravates me and I have to look for the remote to fast forward quickly
Valentines for Star Trek nerds
(https://imgur.com/MK9yddl.jpg)
I recently obtained CBS all access so we could watch Survivor (kiddos love it) so I started Discovery tonight. Watched the first three episodes. I like it. Seems interesting enough. I’m sure I’ll keep going
I recently obtained CBS all access so we could watch Survivor (kiddos love it) so I started Discovery tonight. Watched the first three episodes. I like it. Seems interesting enough. I’m sure I’ll keep going
It gets better, reaches a decent level - however the final couple of episodes do feel either rushed or tacked on.
I recently obtained CBS all access so we could watch Survivor (kiddos love it) so I started Discovery tonight. Watched the first three episodes. I like it. Seems interesting enough. I’m sure I’ll keep going
It gets better, reaches a decent level - however the final couple of episodes do feel either rushed or tacked on.
I'm particularly impressed with the production and visuals of the show. REALLY well done.
I'm not sure if I remember the ep or whether I'm getting confused with another one.
I only had a quick skim through the memory-alpha article. It looked like an episode I remember based on the preview screenshot, but not so much from the summary. If it's the episode I think, I remember liking the holodeck investigating quite a bit, but I don't recall the other elements at all. So either it wasn't overall memorable, or I'm remembering a different episode.
I recently obtained CBS all access so we could watch Survivor (kiddos love it) so I started Discovery tonight. Watched the first three episodes. I like it. Seems interesting enough. I’m sure I’ll keep going
It gets better, reaches a decent level - however the final couple of episodes do feel either rushed or tacked on.
I'm particularly impressed with the production and visuals of the show. REALLY well done.
If only the script and characters matched up to it. :lol
you're probably going to think it's the greatest thing ever by the end.
I did not require a fine tooth comb to pick it apart, only the knowledge of having actually seen Star Trek pre-2009 JJ Abrams. :P
I'm actually dreading they continue this storyline, with their desperate attempt at fan service with the Enterprise showing up. Screwing up canon for their new little garbage ship is one thing, but leave the Enterprise out of this. I don't want to see them mess around with the Enterprise interior, uniforms, characters, history etc.
Early production and writing was such a trainwreck that nobody thought it would fly. If it crashed and burned as everyone was expecting their fallback was to make it an anthology and reboot the thing next season. I believe they already had Nicholas Meyer writing next season's installment. Turns out that people seem to like it, so there's no reason why they have to reboot it, but they might choose to anyway.
TNG had the excuse of a writer's strike at least. Discovery's has no excuse except that they clearly didn't give a shit.
Discovery's has no excuse except that they clearly didn't give a shit.
TNG had the excuse of a writer's strike at least. Discovery's has no excuse except that they clearly didn't give a shit.
That was only the second series wasn't it? (hence the shorter episode run and the awful 'shades of grey'!).
Alot of the problems with TNG first two series were Gene Roddenbury's boring vision for the show and Maurice Hurley for sticking with it.
Pretty sure it was also first season, hence why they ended up having to use all of the awful Wesley scripts, instead of just choosing one of them. :lol
DS9 bro.
DS9 bro.
So I'm thinking we reboot DS9. Bring back ALL of the actors and all of the characters, but...and here's the catch....they're doing voice work.
Why? Because all of their characters will be transformers.
Sisco can transform into a self-playing piano
Quark can transform into an ATM
Kira can transformer into a bloody tampon
Odo can.....well, he'd be the same character basically.
LET'S DO THIS!
Why was shades of grey bad? I don't remember? TNG was definitely weak in its infancy but look how awesome it became! Discovery got better quickly but seemed like the end was a finale for an experiment. Is Lorca really dead? He was great for the show.It was a clip show. They didn't have any money left, so rather than a proper season finale we got 10 minutes of new footage and 35 worth of flashbacks.
Winding down TNG season 5 and I'm getting kind of bummed that my run through TNG is coming to close altogether. I forgot how great the show shines.Just wait and see how bad season 7 is. They should have known to wrap it up after 6. There just weren't any ideas left.
Winding down TNG season 5 and I'm getting kind of bummed that my run through TNG is coming to close altogether. I forgot how great the show shines.
But can a Vulcan and a Trill mate?
All humanoid species can mate. Half the fun of space exploration is seeing the wacky results.
Speaking of which, why do we always see half human aliens, but rarely if ever other half species (except maybe half Vulcan / Romulan). I want to see a half Vulan, half Klingon or something. Never mind the circumstances, I just wanna see it. Or half Orion, half Andorian for a funky aqua colour and stumpy antennae.
He's thinking "dammit, I'm going to have to point and say 'engaged!' again, aren't I?" :biggrin:Well done.
I don't know him, but he looks the part, so I have no problem with that choice. I'm however very disappointed that it confirms they'll be continuing that trainwreck of a storyline, and I dread what they're going to do with the Enterprise and Spock etc. Just leave it the hell alone. They're trying to have it both ways.
I wonder if they could get Quinto to play Spock? Nobody can fill Nimoy's shoes, but Quinto has done a good job with the character.
Anson Mount been cast as Pike for ST:9 Season 2.
I don't know him, but he looks the part, so I have no problem with that choice. I'm however very disappointed that it confirms they'll be continuing that trainwreck of a storyline, and I dread what they're going to do with the Enterprise and Spock etc. Just leave it the hell alone. They're trying to have it both ways.
I wonder if they could get Quinto to play Spock? Nobody can fill Nimoy's shoes, but Quinto has done a good job with the character.
I think the storyline from season 1 is pretty much finished. They managed to pretty much kill of Fullers vision (the Klingon war nonsense) for the show, in those final rushed two episodes. The timeline is always going to be a sore point, but I'm hoping for a better second season (the quality we saw when in the mirror universe episodes consistently would be great). No second season of this or the Orville till next year though I believe?
Anson Mount been cast as Pike for ST:9 Season 2.
LOVED him in ‘Hell on Wheels’. It’ll be interesting to see him go from playing an old West Gun slinger to a Captain of a Space ship :lol
I don't know him, but he looks the part, so I have no problem with that choice. I'm however very disappointed that it confirms they'll be continuing that trainwreck of a storyline, and I dread what they're going to do with the Enterprise and Spock etc. Just leave it the hell alone. They're trying to have it both ways.
I wonder if they could get Quinto to play Spock? Nobody can fill Nimoy's shoes, but Quinto has done a good job with the character.
I think the storyline from season 1 is pretty much finished. They managed to pretty much kill of Fullers vision (the Klingon war nonsense) for the show, in those final rushed two episodes. The timeline is always going to be a sore point, but I'm hoping for a better second season (the quality we saw when in the mirror universe episodes consistently would be great). No second season of this or the Orville till next year though I believe?
I meant the trainwreck of tacking in the USS Enterprise in the finale. I was hoping their desperate fan-service wouldn't extend into S2.
The Orville will be later this year, around the same time as S1 was, which they've already started filming.
I haven't heard any information on them starting filming on Discovery S2 yet, and it looks like that will more likely be 2019. Being a streaming show, it will have a looser production schedule than a TV show.Anson Mount been cast as Pike for ST:9 Season 2.
LOVED him in ‘Hell on Wheels’. It’ll be interesting to see him go from playing an old West Gun slinger to a Captain of a Space ship :lol
I was going to add that he was quite a clean-cut captain too, but that will no doubt change in STD anyway.
Will season 2 be a continuation of S1, or are they going to do something different? If the latter a new show runner would make a lot more sense.
That makes more sense, then. The fallback plan had been to do an anthology if STD crashed and burned. It didn't, but that doesn't mean they won't still do it. Another consideration is that much of the cast probably took new job offers when the conventional wisdom was that there would never be a S2. Since we know that Meyer was writing a story for that fallback option, it wouldn't surprise me if we see a complete retooling.Will season 2 be a continuation of S1, or are they going to do something different? If the latter a new show runner would make a lot more sense.
S1 wrapped up it's arc very quickly and then tacked on the Enterprise at the end. Since they've announced casting for Captain Pike, I assume that will play a decent part in S2.
So not only is Kurtzman in charge of STD, but he's now in charge of creating a whole extended universe for ST.
The dude who tried to make a whole Spider-Man franchise and failed. The dude who tried to make the Dark Universe and failed.
I just do not understand giving this man so many opportunities.
Some higher up execs really don't like Star Trek or the fans and would love to release shit that would piss them off.Perhaps, but I think it's more likely they're just targeting a much broader audience. The execs understand that you don't get butts in seats by having 3 guys talk their way out of a mysterious situation.
Just re-watched the final episode of TNG. One of my favorite episodes of TNG and a really bittersweet final scene.
Just re-watched the final episode of TNG. One of my favorite episodes of TNG and a really bittersweet final scene.
The one thing I disliked about the premise of All Good Things was how Q placed the blame on Picard... but if Q hadn't gone meddling in all three time periods, the anomaly would've never been created! Other than that, it is a fantastic way to close the series.
Picard is back in a new series. I have high hopes for this one.
https://deadline.com/2018/08/patrick-stewart-star-new-star-trek-series-jean-luc-picard-cbs-all-access-1202440156/
Yeah, I'll pass.
So we've got, yet another, universe to deal with now. We already had the prime timeline, the JJ Timeline, the CBS timeline, and now we're getting the CBS timeline TNG. Joy. The nature of their licensing agreement will prohibit them from making it look anything like TNG, so we're basically going to get the cool, optimistic Picard set in basement of the Nostromo.
Yeah, I'll pass.
So we've got, yet another, universe to deal with now. We already had the prime timeline, the JJ Timeline, the CBS timeline, and now we're getting the CBS timeline TNG. Joy. The nature of their licensing agreement will prohibit them from making it look anything like TNG, so we're basically going to get the cool, optimistic Picard set in basement of the Nostromo.
I'm on the fence.
I love Picard. Love him. But this is the same people that made Discovery. It's Alex Kurtzman behind the whole thing.
None of that, minus Stewart, is at all exciting or intriguing.
I will give it a shot only for picard.
Yeah, that's what I was trying to get at. They're going to take cool, optimistic Picard and turn him into something he's very much not. My bet would be that in the intervening 20 years something dreadful happened to him and he's now the morally ambiguous anti-hero, in a Shakesperian style. Old Picard just doesn't fit into the modern world.Yeah, I'll pass.
So we've got, yet another, universe to deal with now. We already had the prime timeline, the JJ Timeline, the CBS timeline, and now we're getting the CBS timeline TNG. Joy. The nature of their licensing agreement will prohibit them from making it look anything like TNG, so we're basically going to get the cool, optimistic Picard set in basement of the Nostromo.
The only part I disagree with is the cool optimistic Picard. I believe he said he was a very different Picard in this.
So I'd assume the darker more moody Picard, if anything.
Is it confirmed that this is yet another spin off timeline? I'm pretty sure they could make aesthetically different looking show, and still make it prime timeline.I don't know if STD is officially considered another timeline, but it is whether they cop to it or not. This show will have to be in the future of that world. Licensing would prevent them from doing the proper TNG timeline. That's why we have new Klingons, ships, uniforms, etc.
I haven't watched a second of Discovery - no interest at all. But I regret not knowing a little about it, because it seems the creative and production teams handling it are the ones that will handle the Picard series. I have heard that people are none-to-pleased with Discovery, so that makes me worry a bit.Don't bet on it. The character you know and love est putain mort. At best you'll get something akin to the First Contact Ahab Picard, but I'm not even hopeful of that.
Fingers crossed. Just like Paramount wants, I'll have to subscribe to watch this, and while I am tentatively in, they really need to make sure the quality of this Picard series lives up to the character. Because (and no offense to fans) ever since Next Gen ended, every series has been progressively worse, IMO (and I am a fan of DS9). So much so I haven't bothered with Discovery, and nothing I've read has made me remotely interested in that.
I haven't watched a second of Discovery - no interest at all. But I regret not knowing a little about it, because it seems the creative and production teams handling it are the ones that will handle the Picard series. I have heard that people are none-to-pleased with Discovery, so that makes me worry a bit.
Fingers crossed. Just like Paramount wants, I'll have to subscribe to watch this, and while I am tentatively in, they really need to make sure the quality of this Picard series lives up to the character. Because (and no offense to fans) ever since Next Gen ended, every series has been progressively worse, IMO (and I am a fan of DS9). So much so I haven't bothered with Discovery, and nothing I've read has made me remotely interested in that.
Can we just get Star Trek away from CBS? God damn.I have no idea how to distinguish between the two. They're so intertwined it's hard to figure out, which is a shame because it's also the reason why nothing makes sense anymore. Actually, that sounds like a pretty good episode of Star Trek. Shame there's nobody left to make it.
Or was Paramount just as awful?
Voy>TNG
I thought you were one of their kind. Confused with Blob, I suppose.
Voy>TNG
(https://memegenerator.net/img/instances/69204169/we-dont-take-kindly-to-your-types-around-here.jpg)
I'm nearing the end of watching DS9 and I'll be moving onto Voyager soon. I took my first step into reading the non-canon stuff. I just bought "A Stitch in Time" by Andrew Robinson, so far so good.I've only read one of them. It was Kobyashi Maru, where the core TOS group are stranded in a shuttle craft and pass the time telling how they dealt with the no win scenario. Scotty took advantage of a theory he'd come up with that worked in simulations but not in practice, and while he didn't beat the scenario he set the record for most Klingons killed. Chekhov got all kill-crazy and self-destructed his ship taking a helluva lot of Klingons with him (as well as the freighter crew). Sulu decided they shouldn't be in the damn neutral zone to begin with and went on about his non-rescuing business. :lol
Has anyone read any of the ST books?
I just tried watching Enterprise again. That intro and song, wtf were they thinking? :tdwn
It seems like they are in a tiny little ship. Were they confined to a small studio or something? Everything looks small and cramped in this series, at least from what I watched.
The cocky dude was a waste of screen time, had no purpose other to waste resources. It was obvious he was going to be written out, I really don't know why they even bothered.
I tried to watch it but it just said Season 2 premiers January 17th. There was no way to watch it. Did they wait til midnight or something?
And I've always maintained that with a proper theme song they would have been much better received. That set the tone for everything.
I really liked the premise of Voyager. Two crews stranded together on the other side of the galaxy. 70+ year trip back home. No guarantees of survival, and a captain and a first officer whose ideals clash at every turn. Against all odds they have to band together to face the unknown.
I really liked the premise of Voyager. Two crews stranded together on the other side of the galaxy. 70+ year trip back home. No guarantees of survival, and a captain and a first officer whose ideals clash at every turn. Against all odds they have to band together to face the unknown.
One of the many stupid things they did with Voyager was resolve this conflict in the pilot. I always thought Voyager was the worst Star Trek spin-off - all the shitty Next Gen writers ended up on that show (Taylor/Braga) while all the good ones went to DS9 (Moore/Behr) - that's why DS9 is far more creative and it's crew get fleshed out.....unlike Voyager's boring crew.
"Q-Less" (teleplay only) (Season 1)
"The Passenger" (teleplay only, with others)
"In the Hands of the Prophets"
"Invasive Procedures" (teleplay only, with John Whelpley) (Season 2)
"Second Sight" (teleplay only, with several others)
"Shadowplay"
"The Wire"
"The Collaborator" (teleplay only, with Ira Steven Behr and Gary Holland)
"The Search, Part I" (story only, with Ira Steven Behr) (Season 3)
"The Search, Part II" (story only, with Ira Steven Behr)
"Second Skin"
"Past Tense, Part I" (story with Ira Steven Behr, teleplay)
"Past Tense, Part II" (story only, with Ira Steven Behr)
"Heart of Stone" (with Ira Steven Behr)
"Prophet Motive" (with Ira Steven Behr)
"Distant Voices" (teleplay only, with Ira Steven Behr)
"Through the Looking Glass" (with Ira Steven Behr)
"Family Business" (with Ira Steven Behr)
"The Adversary" (with Ira Steven Behr)
"The Way of the Warrior" (with Ira Steven Behr) (Season 4)
"Little Green Men" (teleplay only, with Ira Steven Behr)
"Homefront" (with Ira Steven Behr)
"Paradise Lost" (teleplay only, with Ira Steven Behr)
"Bar Association" (teleplay only, With Ira Steven Behr)
"Hard Time" (teleplay Only)
"To the Death" (with Ira Steven Behr)
"Broken Link" (teleplay only, with Ira Steven Behr)
"Apocalypse Rising" (with Ira Steven Behr) (Season 5)
"Trials and Tribble-ations" (story with Ira Steven Behr and Hans Beimler)
"Let He Who Is Without Sin..." (with Ira Steven Behr)
"The Ascent" (with Ira Steven Behr)
"In Purgatory's Shadow" (with Ira Steven Behr)
"By Inferno's Light" (with Ira Steven Behr)
"Ties of Blood and Water" (teleplay only)
"Blaze of Glory" (with Ira Steven Behr)
"Call to Arms" (with Ira Steven Behr)
"Field of Fire" (Season 7)
What's keeping me going is knowing that it's gonna get better and also likeable/interesting characters like Data, Geordi and Worf.
What I'm hoping to see over the next few seasons or on the next spin-offs is a season-long arc of a big disastrous event occurring to the Federation, like an advanced civilization invasion, and the Enterprise being a rouge ship in some kind of under ground resistance, I've always wanted to see something like that. Seeing the Borg revived these hopes for me, but I'm gonna try not to get too attached to the idea.Well, you got a 2 season long war coming up with DS9.
Samaritan Snare: Funniest Star Trek aliens ever! Fun episode, I get the feeling that Geordi would be working at Home Depot if he hadn't joined Star Fleet.Those guys were awesome. Every time they stunned Geordi it cracked me up.
Now the Borg are a pretty freakin grim prospect, I hope/think we'll see them again.
The Borg were excellent villains until FC turned them into pretty generic badguys. Then, not too long after, Janeway starts kicking their ass on a fairly regular basis. For a while they were the one adversary that outclassed the federation in every aspect, save for the coping skills of humanity. That made them superb antagonists. When they just became a badguy of the week and they were pretty bad.QuoteNow the Borg are a pretty freakin grim prospect, I hope/think we'll see them again.
The Borg were the worst part of TNG and any Star Trek for that matter. I always felt like when they had writers block they'd go to the Borg parking lot to fill the void. then the whole resistance is futILE vs futul .... Ughh
Agreed.Humans are eaten alive by the radiation. Data was the only one they could send. While it's possible that they could have sent others once they learned the inhabitants were immune, it's not at all guaranteed that those people didn't acquire the immunity over time. Time the Enterprise crew didn't have. Data really was the only option. But if you have a problem with that, wait until Picard beams every single person off of the ship except Acting Captain Crusher and a hand full of ensigns. :lol
Another thing about this episode, all this happens every now and then, is the odd -almost stupid- selection for the away team. You know there's a community of humans down on that planet and they are somewhat behind on technology, you need to convince them to leave their planet or else an alien force is going to massacre them all. Let's send Data, alone, this seems right up his alley..
The one time it would have made sense for Troi to be on the away team..
Half way through the episode Data called Ricker to tell him basically that these people won't listen to him and the mission if out of his grasp. Ricker tells him something along the lines of "I don't care, try harder, get it done", wtf! that's just bad leadership there heh
Riker is a fun guy. When they cooked up TNG, one obvious question was whether/how would they try to reproduce the dynamic between Kirk, Spock, and McCoy.I don't think recreating the K/S/M dynamic was ever a consideration for TNG. That relied on conflict which was expressly forbidden in the first few seasons (Roddenberry's). Data's role was much like Spocks in that he was the non-human who was there to provide commentary on the human condition. Quark/Odo and Seven of Nine/Tuvok both filled the same role. It wasn't until ENT that they specifically tried to recreate that dynamic (with the non-triad Flox as the outside observer). I'm really not sure what their intention was with Riker, but that applies to most of their crew, though. Worf, Geordie, and Tasha were similarly non-defined. I think they just figured they see what happened with them.
With Picard being the calm, seasoned veteran, and Data kinda being the Spock character, Riker brought the brash, the arrogant. Yeah, the line to Data was kinduva dick thing to say, but it was in character. Riker could definitely be an asshole sometimes.
Humans are eaten alive by the radiation. Data was the only one they could send. While it's possible that they could have sent others once they learned the inhabitants were immune, it's not at all guaranteed that those people didn't acquire the immunity over time. Time the Enterprise crew didn't have. Data really was the only option.
Up The Long Ladder: Good episode. A couple of raised eyebrows for me here, I looked them up and it seems like nobody else thought anything of it so I must have over-thinking it:
1 - Riker murders two almost-fully developed human clones in cold blood.
2 - Picard's plan for these two civilizations dictates that every woman of the under-developed group would have to mate with three men.
Just thought for 90's audience, maybe even now, that these two points would poke somebody the wrong way, but I was wrong.
Up The Long Ladder: Good episode. A couple of raised eyebrows for me here, I looked them up and it seems like nobody else thought anything of it so I must have over-thinking it:
1 - Riker murders two almost-fully developed human clones in cold blood.
2 - Picard's plan for these two civilizations dictates that every woman of the under-developed group would have to mate with three men.
Just thought for 90's audience, maybe even now, that these two points would poke somebody the wrong way, but I was wrong.
I mentioned way earlier in the thread when I started watched TOS that I found a podcast called Mission Log that does commentary and analysis on every Star Trek episode and movie ever made, it was commissioned by Rod Roddenberry so they have access to a lot of paper work and production notes.
I'm usually behind on the podcasts too and I just got around to the podcast about Up The Long Ladder and it turns out the episode writer Melinda Snodgrass did get a lot of angry mail from pro-life activists and organizations.
The Mrs. and I finished binge watching the first season of Discovery (CBS all access had a free week). I've occasionally read, in this thread, how bad of a Trek show it is. What am I missing? Why the disgust?
We thought the stories were good. The driving tech behind the Discovery was original and thought provoking. The actors were great (for the most part).
I especially thought the writing was great, the season twist was really well done. It made sense and I didn't see it coming. I love that, when I look back and think, "Damn, they were setting that shit up for eleven episodes and I was clueless." I think some of the characters were written a bit one dimensional (*cough*Michael Burnam*cough*) but I see why they did that. It appears, from the little we've seen of the second season, that they are remedying that.
So, anyway, educate me. Why should I have hated it?
The Mrs. and I finished binge watching the first season of Discovery (CBS all access had a free week). I've occasionally read, in this thread, how bad of a Trek show it is. What am I missing? Why the disgust?I have no opinion on whether it's good or bad. My objection hasn't been about quality, but simply the fact that it's really no longer Star Trek. Perhaps that's stubborn nostalgia on my part, but I'm a fan of the ST universe. Now that they keep creating new ones, with more and more emphasis on appealing to the ADD audiences of today, it's just never interested me in the slightest.
We thought the stories were good. The driving tech behind the Discovery was original and thought provoking. The actors were great (for the most part).
I especially thought the writing was great, the season twist was really well done. It made sense and I didn't see it coming. I love that, when I look back and think, "Damn, they were setting that shit up for eleven episodes and I was clueless." I think some of the characters were written a bit one dimensional (*cough*Michael Burnam*cough*) but I see why they did that. It appears, from the little we've seen of the second season, that they are remedying that.
So, anyway, educate me. Why should I have hated it?
For one, other Treks don't seem to have plagiarised obscure indie Steam games. Allegedly.
I have no opinion on whether it's good or bad. My objection hasn't been about quality, but simply the fact that it's really no longer Star Trek. Perhaps that's stubborn nostalgia on my part, but I'm a fan of the ST universe. Now that they keep creating new ones, with more and more emphasis on appealing to the ADD audiences of today, it's just never interested me in the slightest.
I'd like to see this game win a lawsuit so that Discovery has to be erased from canon officially. :biggrin:
I have no opinion on whether it's good or bad. My objection hasn't been about quality, but simply the fact that it's really no longer Star Trek. Perhaps that's stubborn nostalgia on my part, but I'm a fan of the ST universe. Now that they keep creating new ones, with more and more emphasis on appealing to the ADD audiences of today, it's just never interested me in the slightest.I'd like to see this game win a lawsuit so that Discovery has to be erased from canon officially. :biggrin:
See, this right here is what I don't get. What does this even mean? I grew up watching Star Trek too. Unlike some of you, I didn't even need to watch it in syndication--although I did all through my teens. I watched every episode of TNG (although only once), was a constant fan of DS9 until it got a bit too soap operaish.
What makes Discovery NOT real Star Trek. You two (Blob and Barto) act like it's self evident, yet I know not of what you speak.
I have no problem disconnecting my brain from what I think is cannon, and enjoying Discovery as it's own thing.
I have no problem disconnecting my brain from what I think is cannon, and enjoying Discovery as it's own thing.
Still not getting it.
What is not canon about Discovery? The spore drive? The head shape of Klingons? The fucking uniforms?
Blob mentioned, the other day, something about their zero-grav suits being too much like Ironman. :lol :blob: Really? In what way does that take away from the story they're telling about the Red Angel? If the producers of Star Trek in the 60's could have had cool shit like that, they would have. Besides, the really stupid thing about watching old ST was how low tech everything was. Should Discovery have stations with analog push buttons, toggle switches and flashing incandescent bulbs instead of touch screens? Is that the problem?
Honestly I blame shows like Big Bang Theory who dumbed down nerd culture to lowest common denominator. Now Star Trek, in the mainstream, is associated only with Kirk and Spock. Some people know Picard, but now EVERYONE knows Kirk and Spock. And since CBS seems to be going for a lowest common denominator audience (bigger is better) then they have to stay with what the audience finds comfortable. The new movies used the love of Kirk/Spock to establish an entire new theme for Star Trek. Big, loud, fast, dark, moody. So now we're stuck with that. Until 2009, that wasn't what Star Trek was about. It was sometimes big, it was sometimes loud, it was sometimes fast, it was sometimes dark and moody, but it was always about more than that. Now all the other stuff is stripped away and it's a big action adventure with bright lights, endless internal drama and more typical scifi dystopian themes. THAT is why we're saying it's not really Star Trek.Insofar as the movies go, I've suggested Fast and Furious in space.
Is it completely unrelated and unrecognizable? No. But it lost the thing that separated Star Trek from stuff like Star Wars. Now it's basically a darker Star Wars.
Anyone hear anything further about DS9 ever seeing the light of day on Blu-ray? I've just about lost hope at this point. I sold my original DVDs more than a decade ago (HUGE mistake), and keep eyeing the big set on Amazon.com, but its only DVD. I'd much prefer Blu-ray. But if I remember, there were some issues with that ever happening. Anyone glued into Trek more than me these days that can give me the latest?
I don't know thing one about it, but it seems pretty likely that there's a rights issue between Paramount and CBS that makes such a thing problematic. If I understand that clusterfuck correctly, DS9 belongs Paramount, but CBS still owns "Star Trek." My hunch would be that CBS wants nothing to do with any further promotion of the TNG era since it doesn't jibe with their re-imagining of the ST universe.Anyone hear anything further about DS9 ever seeing the light of day on Blu-ray? I've just about lost hope at this point. I sold my original DVDs more than a decade ago (HUGE mistake), and keep eyeing the big set on Amazon.com, but its only DVD. I'd much prefer Blu-ray. But if I remember, there were some issues with that ever happening. Anyone glued into Trek more than me these days that can give me the latest?
I doubt it. It would be very cool, but I doubt there'd be enough money in it.
You'll see 600 new versions of ToS before you see Blu Ray for DS9 or Voyager.
It might also be a matter of how it was filmed. I think (at least i think they did with TNG) have to go in and re-do a lot of effects since they were printed directly on to the film. Or something.
So it's probably all of it. No money in it. Rights issue. Lack of interest. Technical problems.
So Blob is that the process that they had to do for TNG?
I would love a remaster but if it doesn't happen then it doesn't happen.
That's a good point, something I haven't really thought about before. Then again, I rarely watch The Emissary and don't remember that episode that well to be honest.I considered the linear time bit, but that just means that the prophets see all things at once. They wouldn't need to "learn" about corporeal life because Sisko's entire life was already known to them.
The only explanation that I can come up with is that because the prophets don't exist in linear time, creating The Sisko so he comes back, etc. doesn't need to go in an A -> B -> C fashion. Whatever version of time, if any, the prophets subscribe to, perhaps it makes sense to them.
Or maybe, their ignorance was feigned on purpose in order to slowly begin Sisko's journey and relationship with them. If they had said from the start, "Hey, Sisko, you're here! Awesome. By the way, just so you know, you had a different mom that you didn't know about, and we made YOU happen. Oh, and we made you an extremely important religious symbol and will go through some tough times the next seven years and then will spend time with us indefinitely after that", he probably would left to go work Surplus Depot Z15 on Qualor II.
I have a wild and pretty crazy theory.Obviously this is the case. The prophets almost never showed up until the end of the story, and at that point the writers just blew off the episodes they'd already appeared in. I sometimes like to point these things out because when Spock calls himself a Vulcanian, or Kirk mixes up shields and deflectors people lose their fucking minds. The same inconsistencies in the "good series" are generally overlooked.
What if....and follow me here.....the writers just didn't have a clue how the prophets were going to be used when they wrote that first episode and it's simply an inconsistency?
Sorry, I'll put the tinfoil hat down now.
When Ricardo was in the TOS episode, his character was over the top, because that's how you did it in the 60's. When Khan was revisited in '82, I loved how he was the same guy 15 years older, same as everyone else. Ricardo Montalbán was awesome.I liked how he was contemplating and ambitious in the first one, and just hate filled and vengeful in the second. He played the two characters well, I thought. My problem with Space Seed was that the girl was so dumb. It took, what, 3 meetings for her to become treasonous? That's a character flaw I'd have picked up on just interviewing somebody for a cashier job.
If you watch it thinking she has an acute nymphomania then it all makes sense, that's the only way I got through that episode.I think I mentioned earlier that I liked the contrast between his two appearances, and this is where it really lies. In Space Seed he was simply ambitious. He wanted to go out and do his own thing and the Enterprise would give him that opportunity. When it didn't pan out he was actually happy with Kirk's "sentence" that he be marooned on a planet he could conquer. Sound motivations, I think. Not unlike any of the conquerors he was compared to. Napoleon in particular. When he came back he was very pissed off at how it worked out. I find this also reasonable. He might have been a little too pissed off at Kirk personally, I'm not sure what he really expected, but such is story telling. I never thought of Ahab as being simply villainous, even if I thought him misguided.
Orbert I didn't like his Khan, neither in Space Seed or Wrath of Khan, I know it's blasphemous opinion among trekkies. I just found it 1- too inconsistent between the two appearances, not just character wise, like why the hell is his skin so much lighter in Wrath of Khan? 2- Too unsympathetic and straightforward villainous, like old Adam West's Batman kinda villains.
After watching Montalbán in these Noir movies I've come to realize that it was just badly written IMO. It's not his fault.
Oh man, just saw the trailer for the DS9 documentary. I am a day 1 backer of that and to see some of that in HD is just mind-blowing. It would be a dream if they remastered that whole thing but I doubt it will ever happen. I'm just glad that so many of us helped catapult this doc into something way more than they had intended since we threw so much money at it. I can't wait for this.So Ezri's looking pretty good nowadays.
https://youtu.be/D4LPDX6uqSM
I bought my ticket earlier today so I'll let you guys know how it is.
So... what do you guys think? I for one was utterly bored by the season finale. I didn't care what happened to anyone really. And the way they tied it to the other show was hilariously lazy.
So if I understand y'alls cryptic posts they created a show based around a ship that had nothing whatsoever to do with Star Trek and made a season out of it. Then they brought the Enterprise, Pike, and Spock alongside it for a season. Then they nuked it away from history a la Armin Tamzarian. Now season 3 will just be the Enterprise and people that actually fit into canon.
I seriously doubt I'd be into it, but if season 3 is simply Pike, Spock, and the Enterprise I'd probably be willing to check it out.
Hey folks, sorry to hijack the thread but I'm looking for suggestions on a Star Trek series to watch. I've only ever seen a few episodes of the original Star Trek with Shatner but it's so low budget, corny, and (honestly) boring that I can't stand it. But I hear the later series, like TNG, are pretty interesting both from a thematic and visual standpoint. I like the idea of watching a scifi series that explores heady/philosophical concepts, but has the fantasy elements and compelling visual elements. Is TNG a good starting point or do I have to watch all the series in order to understand them?
I went with a friend to the 2009 Star Trek film but didn't really understand it beyond there being a Spock and redshirts and some planet destroying red matter. Visually it looked cool...
Which of those would you recommend first for someone who knows next to nothing about Star Trek and that whole universe? Do they connect at all? I think those are the two series I've thought of most.
Kattelox: There's something like 165 episodes of TNG. A handful of them are 9s and 10s. A similar number are 1s and 2. Most are in the middle and mostly come down to your particular tastes and interests. The answer to your question is that the subsequent series, DS9 and VOY both build on a variety of stories and concepts from TNG. You'd be best served by starting at the beginning. You just shouldn't base any objections to a handful of episodes since they're so all over the place. I'd say that about TOS, as well. Out of curiosity, which episodes did you watch?
There's overlap between the three, so that's really the only way to do it. DS9 started in TNG's 5th (of 7) seasons. VOY did the same, starting in DS9's 5th season.Kattelox: There's something like 165 episodes of TNG. A handful of them are 9s and 10s. A similar number are 1s and 2. Most are in the middle and mostly come down to your particular tastes and interests. The answer to your question is that the subsequent series, DS9 and VOY both build on a variety of stories and concepts from TNG. You'd be best served by starting at the beginning. You just shouldn't base any objections to a handful of episodes since they're so all over the place. I'd say that about TOS, as well. Out of curiosity, which episodes did you watch?
I've seen 3 or 4 episodes of the original, I think, and honestly the only thing I remember is that in one, I think the ship gets grabbed by a giant green alien who is a god or something - does that ring a bell? I think it was one of the first episodes but I could be wrong. (caught them on late night, local TV via antenna) The only other stuff I remember is the stuff that made me bored - the old and corny effects and uninteresting dialogue, which is what I was hoping the later series avoided. So I think I'd have a hard time watching the original series if I have to. I like old TV like Gilligan's Island but old scifi with its technological limitations doesn't interest me - I need the quality visuals to accompany the epic scope. (I use that term loosely since TNG was so long ago too but still much later than the original)
EDIT: Seems like TNG -> Deep Space 9 -> Voyager is the suggested path then? Since TNG was first. Neato.
I have tried a few times to do a MAJOR Star Trek rewatch. Which would be Enterprise -> TOS -> TNG -> DS9 -> Voyager with all of the movies in their respective times as well.I skip about 1/3 of TOS. That's right on par with TNG. I have no more desire to sit through The Empath than I do Code of Honor or some terrible story about Troi's mom. DS9 is where that number shrinks dramatically. Of the episodes I really enjoy watching and just put on some time when I want mindless TV on, it's probably about 1/3 from each series. DS9 and VOY do slightly better than TOS and TNG, but it's still pretty close to that either way.
Problem is, I can never make it all the way through TOS. I don't skip episodes, and eventually somewhere in the 2nd season or maybe the beginning of the 3rd, it becomes a chore to watch so I quit. Damn.
I'll try again, but I am not wondering if I am going to need to include freakin Discovery, which I have very little interest in.
Speaking of DS9 I went and saw "What we left behind" and it was ok, at first I came out liking it but the more I think about it the more of a mess it is. There is no real narrative and Ira Behr loved talking about himself in the cast interviews.
The wife and I were flipping channels and caught the only TOS two-parter, "The Menagerie", which was built around the unaired pilot "The Cage".Menagerie is a great episode. It's one I always watch when I get a hankering to revisit TOS (and that was about two weeks ago). It was an excellent way to reuse an existing, unrelated episode and they did it very well.
I kept thinking it was better than I remembered. Yeah, the dialogue was just as cheesy, and the idea of a futuristic pseudo-military organization having a death penalty on the books was silly, and I knew the plot backwards and forwards and even a lot of the dialogue, but somehow it was quite engaging, more than I thought it would be, especially since we've seen all the old episodes at least a dozen times, years ago.
Then that's what I realized was so amazing about it. It looked incredible. We used to watch Star Trek when we were kids, on the old black and white TV in the living room, not the nice one that Mom and Dad watched in the family room. I couldn't remember the last time I sat and actually watched a TOS episode in color. But not only that, on an HDTV. Also, I'm pretty sure what we were watching was the "enhanced" version (I'm not sure of the term) with the updated graphics and effects. I didn't remember the insignia on their uniforms being shiny. The planet viewed on screen looked great. Everything was awesome.
I remember reading about them upgrading the graphics and effects and stuff and I figured it would be obvious and hokey, but it wasn't. I can't say I remember the original look at all (since most viewings were on the old black and white) but this had to be the updated stuff, yet it was integrated and didn't give itself away. It just plain looked great.
I'm still probably not going to buy the series in HD or anything, but now I feel a lot more understanding of those who would. This was the best I've ever seen TOS look.
Speaking of DS9 I went and saw "What we left behind" and it was ok, at first I came out liking it but the more I think about it the more of a mess it is. There is no real narrative and Ira Behr loved talking about himself in the cast interviews.
Speaking of DS9 I went and saw "What we left behind" and it was ok, at first I came out liking it but the more I think about it the more of a mess it is. There is no real narrative and Ira Behr loved talking about himself in the cast interviews.
I largely liked it, but yea it left a lot to be desired.
It was neat to see everyone back and get interviewed. The writers room thing was pretty cool. There was a little bit of insight, but not a ton. I wish someone else had directed it who didn't have such a strong agenda with the documentary. Also the ending was priceless.
Overall I enjoyed it as a reminder of why I like DS9 so much and as a way to feel nostalgic. It's not a great documentary though.
Speaking of DS9 I went and saw "What we left behind" and it was ok, at first I came out liking it but the more I think about it the more of a mess it is. There is no real narrative and Ira Behr loved talking about himself in the cast interviews.
I largely liked it, but yea it left a lot to be desired.
It was neat to see everyone back and get interviewed. The writers room thing was pretty cool. There was a little bit of insight, but not a ton. I wish someone else had directed it who didn't have such a strong agenda with the documentary. Also the ending was priceless.
Overall I enjoyed it as a reminder of why I like DS9 so much and as a way to feel nostalgic. It's not a great documentary though.
I don't want a lot of it spoiled, but can you expand a bit on the "agenda" comment. I'm a huge TNG and DS9 fan. But I don't really partake in any of the online fandom or community info. I just keep my fandom on the shows, and generally ignore everything else. But I'm curious as to what you mean.
Adam I
There is a teaser trailer up for PICARD at Bleeding Cool.
It was pretty sweet. Short, but certainly got my attention.
Adam I
I hate you.
Did it explain why Avery Brooks did not take part? His footage was recorded from way in the past, but he declined to be interviewed for the documentary, right?
The Captains was just about enough Brooks for me. I don't need anymore.Did it explain why Avery Brooks did not take part? His footage was recorded from way in the past, but he declined to be interviewed for the documentary, right?
I didn't see anything about that. This was shot over (I think) like 4-6 years. So multiple people were interviewed in like 2015 and also in 2018 etc. But there was a definite lack of Brooks through much of it.
Honestly, The Captains is a much better documentary if you want more Brooks.
yeah made a comment about the lack of Avery Brooks in a review I finally posted the other day (http://allmediareviews.blogspot.com/2019/05/ot-what-we-left-behind-star-trek-deep.html) on What We Left Behind.
The extras were shared in an article that doesn't necessarily suggest more with Brooks unfortunately.
August 6th is the release date
https://www.iconvsicon.com/2019/05/28/critically-acclaimed-star-trek-documentary-what-we-left-behind-looking-back-at-star-trek-deep-space-nine-to-hit-blu-ray-in-august/
That the writers talk about how the 8th season would have played out is interesting, but you really can't work it like that. Season 7 was based around being the final season, and it is what it is. I suspect the entire 7th season was written with that in mind. They were actually pretty fortunate to know what the time frame was so they could take 25 episodes to wrap everything up. A lot of shows don't get to do that.
With that in mind, I wish there had been two seasons with Ezri. That was a new character they really could have done a lot with, but they had to blow right on through that which made her so interesting. A season to learn how to be a Dax followed by a season of really being Dax would have been a lot better. Just adding an 8th season wouldn't have satisfied that.
That the writers talk about how the 8th season would have played out is interesting, but you really can't work it like that. Season 7 was based around being the final season, and it is what it is. I suspect the entire 7th season was written with that in mind. They were actually pretty fortunate to know what the time frame was so they could take 25 episodes to wrap everything up. A lot of shows don't get to do that.
With that in mind, I wish there had been two seasons with Ezri. That was a new character they really could have done a lot with, but they had to blow right on through that which made her so interesting. A season to learn how to be a Dax followed by a season of really being Dax would have been a lot better. Just adding an 8th season wouldn't have satisfied that.
and they didn't pitch a full 8th season. They wrote the outline for the first episode, which would have been 20 years after season 7, so more a revival than an 8th season. It was surprisingly decent, as brief and basic as it was (outline, no script or anything).
yeah made a comment about the lack of Avery Brooks in a review I finally posted the other day (http://allmediareviews.blogspot.com/2019/05/ot-what-we-left-behind-star-trek-deep.html) on What We Left Behind.
The extras were shared in an article that doesn't necessarily suggest more with Brooks unfortunately.
August 6th is the release date
https://www.iconvsicon.com/2019/05/28/critically-acclaimed-star-trek-documentary-what-we-left-behind-looking-back-at-star-trek-deep-space-nine-to-hit-blu-ray-in-august/
Great blog. Thanks for sharing. It's funny, I grew up liking TNG, but wasn't all that fond of TOS episodes (I liked the feature films though). When DS9 came out, I was just graduating high school, and as things got moving, I was in college. I watched DS9, but didn't really have an affinity for it. I was one of those guys that blended with most crowds. I could hang with the jocks, because I loved sports and I was a pretty good athlete (basketball, tennis, baseball), but then I was also a nerd who loved box scores, and sci-fi/fantasy stuff (Dragonlance, Star Wars, Trek, Batman of course, lol). And then finally, I was also a big metal guy, so I had that sect of friends. It was an interesting time for sure. So, I say all that to say, I never gave DS9 its due, because I was spread thin during the years it aired. I liked it, but wasn't as devoted to it as I was TNG. That changed following me graduating from law school a few years later. The summer after I graduated, I wasn't working for a six-month period, and so I watched the first season, and was immediately hooked. In fact, I loved it so much, I sold all of my TNG seasons (I had purchased all those 100 dollar box sets), to afford the DS9 ones (the original ones). Then I watched the rest of the series religiously, probably four or five episodes a day. TNG was mature, particularly in seasons three through seven, but DS9 just made it, as you said in your blog, more relatable, more down to earth and real human issues. It was the Trek for a more mature, politically-oriented audience. I became an uber fan real quick, and have remained one ever since.
As I got older and had more disposable income, I purchased a lot of carded action figures of the show (I have probably around 30 now, the first run of nine, and then a couple dozen from the sets that followed), plus the DS9 station. In fact, I'm still collecting here and there (just bought some more characters in a lot on eBay). There was just something really different and special about DS9, that frankly, no other Trek show or movie since has captured. I read the whole "continuation" of the series in the books, but after the first five or six books, I felt like it was just getting too long in the tooth and too many personnel changes. It was good, but not AS good as the show, of course.
So suffice it to say, I am completely excited to watch the documentary. I had plans the night of the special screening so I unfortunately had to miss it. But I have pre-ordered the Blu-ray, and I'm currently re-watching the entire series on Netflix for the first time since 2003. I'm at the end of Season One right now. I even re-bought (I had sold my original DVDs probably about 12 or 13 years ago, figuring it would come out on Blu-ray, which it never did) the series on DVD, as Amazon had a special on the box set last week (see my post above).
But everything about the show is just...special. From Sisko's command style and history, to those relationships between the other regular characters, they all seem really REAL. Instead of a utopian future and traveling the stars, which the other Treks had, DS9 was more like - here is real life, taking place hundreds of years from now on a space station. Such a shame Season 8 never came to fruition. But I'm glad that you mentioned the writers talk about what they would have done in the documentary. I can't wait to see it.
Again, thanks for the blog. DS9 is just such a special show, and I'm glad others also give it its proper credit. :tup
What was the Star Trek experience like in Vegas. I always wanted to go but by the time I actually got to Vegas it was already closed down.
Ok finally took the dive to spend the whopping 6 bucks a month. Picard inspired me, and boredom made me make the leap early.
I'm on ep6 of Discovery now, and I'm really digging this show. I like that they jumped right into a continuous storyline feel, keeping me in it fully. Love the characters, especially the lead Burnham. Very....entertained...at yet another iteration of the Klingons, curious to see where they go with this whole thing, especially the Spore Drive. That leaves pretty much any avenue open.
I'm about half way through the alternate universe storyline(eo12 I think) , and this is just fantastic Trek. Loving everything they're doing with it.
I still cannot stand any of the female characters on TNG.. nor can I stand Wesley. But I'm totally digging everybody else right now.
It's crazy to think if Wesley's character was better done, less early-90's-defined, he could have gone on and on and we could have followed his ascension through the ranks on following TV show, etc. But I read that even fans back in the early 90's hated Wesley so I don't know how the writers fucked up so bad. I mean, it's the actor, but it's not entirely the actor.
Season 3 is going super for me.
Incredibly, I don't remember hating Wesley Crusher the way most people do. We watched the series when it first ran, and while I wasn't a teenager anymore, I was still a relatively young nerd geek loser and therefore I identified with Wesley Crusher, and I think we were supposed to. It probably helped that I'd seen the movie Stand By Me and thought it was a great flick. So I already respected Wil Wheaton as an actor, and really, he was one of the few actors I actually knew going into TNG (LeVar Burton was the other).That actually makes a lot of sense. When I was watching it during its first run I was solely interested in catching a buzz, banging my girlfriend, and catching any shows that came through town. God damn Wesley made me sick. :lol
He was annoying as shit the first 2 seasons... then again, most of the characters were. Frankly, it's amazing it made it to S3. I think of the first 50 episodes, like 1/2 dozen are good.They just needed Roddenberry to die. Once Roddenberry and his attorney were shown the door it went over to Berman and Pillar and the show took off.
Anyway, look at Wesley the character. Son of an officer, so lives on board a starship, and not just any starship but the actual flagship of the fleet. Gets to rub elbows with aliens and officers alike, ends up saving the day a couple of times due to his amazing yet somehow unexpected massive IQ, and ends up becoming some kind of transcendent being and heading out to explore other dimensions of the universe with The Traveller. That's a hell of a character arc, and a nerd geek loser's wet dream right there.
Anyway, look at Wesley the character. Son of an officer, so lives on board a starship, and not just any starship but the actual flagship of the fleet. Gets to rub elbows with aliens and officers alike, ends up saving the day a couple of times due to his amazing yet somehow unexpected massive IQ, and ends up becoming some kind of transcendent being and heading out to explore other dimensions of the universe with The Traveller. That's a hell of a character arc, and a nerd geek loser's wet dream right there.
That's pretty much Wesley. The only problem is seeing it written down is a totally different experience to actually watching Wesley. He was a awful character - the main issue is they made his character a humourless know-it-all total dork (not a nerd....and yep there is a difference).
I mean look at this....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x8YciwllLO4
LAFORGE: How could Guinan know that history has been altered if she's been altered along with the rest of us?
DATA: Perhaps her species has a perception that goes beyond linear time.
PICARD: There are many things about her species we can't easily explain.
The war is going very badly for the Federation, far worse than is generally known. Starfleet Command believes defeat is inevitable. Within six months we may have no choice but to surrender. - Picard
GUINAN: Families. There should be children on this ship.
PICARD: What? Children on the Enterprise? Guinan, we're at war.
Attention all hands. As you know, we could outrun the Klingon vessels, but we must protect the Enterprise-C until she enters the temporal rift. And we must succeed. Let's make sure history never forgets the name Enterprise. Picard out.
KLINGON SHIP [Over Comm.]: Federation ship Enterprise. Surrender and prepare to be boarded.Then he jumps to take over operating Riker's station :hefdaddy
PICARD: That will be the day.
TASHA: But there's something more when you look at me, isn't there? I can see it in your eyes, Guinan. We've known each other too long.
GUINAN: We weren't meant to know each other at all. At least, that's what I sense when I look at you. Tasha, you're not supposed to be here.
TASHA: Where am I supposed to be?
GUINAN: Dead.
TASHA: Do you know how?
GUINAN: No. But I do know it was an empty death. A death without purpose.
Top 5 episode.
Can't wait until you get to Best of Both Worlds.
Top 5 episode.
Can't wait until you get to Best of Both Worlds.
That's the end of that season, isn't it....at least he won't have to wait months for the finale like I did.
I can't wait to see his reaction to Inner Light, that might be some of the finest sci-fi ever done.
According to one of the novels (based on a quick google search), the version of Guinan that is still in the Nexus can reach out and give her the "feelings" since it exists outside of space/time, which is how she knew reality was wrong in Yesterday's Enterprise.
Here are 10 really great episodes of TNG that tend to get overlooked in favour of the classics (Inner Light, Measure of a Man, Yesterdays Enterprise, Darmok, Tapestry, Pegasus or Lower Decks.) or episodes that feature recurring characters (Borg, Q, Barclay, ToS guests) or two parters.
So these are 10 episodes that feature none of the above but are really good (and rather forgotten)
- The Drumhead.
- Frame of Mind (Frakes over acting is always fun)
- Timescrape.
- Parallels.
- Conspiracy.
- The Defector.
- The Wounded.
- The Next Phase.
- A Matter of Honor.
- Starship Mine (John-Luc McClane)
Watching Enterprise season 4 right now and it's too bad it didn't continue.
Top 5 episode.Part 1, at least. :lol
Can't wait until you get to Best of Both Worlds.
Top 5 episode.Part 1, at least. :lol
Can't wait until you get to Best of Both Worlds.
In all fairness, I watched BoBW not too long ago and Pt2 isn't bad at all. It's just fundamentally different in tone and production than Pt1. TNG always sucked at season cliffhangers because they were always written and shot six months apart. Midseason two parters were always great. Unification was one of their highlights, and I was always fond of Gambit.
Sins of the Father is coming up, and not only do I suspect that'll get him off pretty hard, it's where a whole lot of great Star Trek begins. Up until that they'd kind of hinted at Worf being more than a lousy security chief, but SotF is where they really decide to move with it. I think Dorn was on record as saying as much. If we do this we're starting something big. You sure about this? Not only is it where Worf becomes a real character instead of "just the Klingon," it's also where the Klingons stop being generic bad guys and begin to really take on some culture of their own.
There are a few key character transition episodes. Jadzia Dax had no place in the show until she decided to eat the heart of the albino Klingon. Next thing you know she's the real deal Dax. Bashir was pretty weak until he turned out to be a mutant. He was much better as Spock than he was as plain ole Bashir. Turning point episodes for key characters, but SotF was probably the most important of them.
Yeah, that's about right. He had some episodes that gave him a chance to be something other than a yes man, I just watched Pegasus the other day, but as a character he never evolved.Top 5 episode.Part 1, at least. :lol
Can't wait until you get to Best of Both Worlds.
In all fairness, I watched BoBW not too long ago and Pt2 isn't bad at all. It's just fundamentally different in tone and production than Pt1. TNG always sucked at season cliffhangers because they were always written and shot six months apart. Midseason two parters were always great. Unification was one of their highlights, and I was always fond of Gambit.
Sins of the Father is coming up, and not only do I suspect that'll get him off pretty hard, it's where a whole lot of great Star Trek begins. Up until that they'd kind of hinted at Worf being more than a lousy security chief, but SotF is where they really decide to move with it. I think Dorn was on record as saying as much. If we do this we're starting something big. You sure about this? Not only is it where Worf becomes a real character instead of "just the Klingon," it's also where the Klingons stop being generic bad guys and begin to really take on some culture of their own.
There are a few key character transition episodes. Jadzia Dax had no place in the show until she decided to eat the heart of the albino Klingon. Next thing you know she's the real deal Dax. Bashir was pretty weak until he turned out to be a mutant. He was much better as Spock than he was as plain ole Bashir. Turning point episodes for key characters, but SotF was probably the most important of them.
It's ironic that Best of Both Worlds hinted at character development with Riker thinking he'd become stale as second in command. That's never followed up on again.....in fact Riker had had his two 'major' character arcs before this - the beard and the trombone :)
I feel like you two watched a different TNG than I did.
The only character that got almost NO real development is Harry Kim.
The others did to varying degrees.
I feel like you two watched a different TNG than I did.In what way? You think the others developed or that Riker was inhuman like the rest of them?
The only character that got almost NO real development is Harry Kim.
The others did to varying degrees.
I feel like you two watched a different TNG than I did.In what way? You think the others developed or that Riker was inhuman like the rest of them?
The only character that got almost NO real development is Harry Kim.
The others did to varying degrees.
New Picard trailer from NYCC....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FySrgrKJguE&feature=share&fbclid=IwAR1LJ_gYjQzpoIJoFLXFG9_MyqG-YOXwsXa4WG4tvnWCjPkSUk4HWbuucyA (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FySrgrKJguE&feature=share&fbclid=IwAR1LJ_gYjQzpoIJoFLXFG9_MyqG-YOXwsXa4WG4tvnWCjPkSUk4HWbuucyA)
I actually just started a Star Trek rewatch too.It never occurred to me to watch ENT first. Huh. Though now that I think about it I never intended to start watching it all the way through, either. I just started watching random TOS episodes, and here we are. I'm trying my best to only skip the completely insufferable ones, which have amounted to a couple per season. Luwaxana Troi's presence is a pretty good indicator. Same with Alexander. Otherwise I'm seeing some stuff I haven't seen in ages.
Currently on 2nd season of Enterprise. Gonna just ignore all Kelvin Timeline stuff.
Unsure if I should include Discovery or not. GAH
Also skipping Animated Series cause it's hard to find.
But yea, Enterprise, into TOS (that's gonna be a slog), the TOS movies, TNG, overlap with DS9, overlap with Voyager, movies in there as well, then Picard I guess, which I'll probably binge for free once it's done airing.
So should I include Discovery? Is it worth it? Only saw the first episode and thought it was Kelvin Timeline stuff on the small screen.
Working my way through DS9 (actually all of ST, which I started about a year ago) and I just wrapped up The Visitor. It's not my favorite episode, frankly I find it so gut wrenching that I seldom want to watch it, but it is the best thing they did. It's DS9's CotEoF. Reading up on a different episode I discovered that Rene Auberjonois was slated to direct it, and due to a scheduling conflict they had to swap episodes, and thus directors. RA is actually a pretty good director, so I suspect he'd have done just fine, but it woudln't have been the same. It's interesting to me how fragile greatness can be. Any number of oddball occurrences create the circumstances by which things happen. In this case, Colme Meaney has to nip off to shoot Con Air or something so they swap the shooting order of the two episodes, and somebody decides to leave the directors in place. Thus leaving an indelible mark on what turns out to be one of their very best episodes. I just always find things like that fascinating.
Another oddball effect from that is that RA's first directing gig turns out to be Hippocratic Oath, obviously starring Colme Meaney. Dude was completely unprepared for it, having been working on the prep for The Visitor, and basically get's tossed into the frying pan where he does an excellent job.
I doing a run through of DS9 myself. TBH, it's mostly a first time run, because I didn't give the show the attention it deserved while it was originally on the air.
Currently 3 episodes into season 6. Thoroughly enjoying it.
Depending on workflow it's not at all uncommon for me to watch 4 episodes in a day. That's not sitting down watching, mind you, but having on while I work. So it really shouldn't take more than two weeks per season.Working my way through DS9 (actually all of ST, which I started about a year ago) and I just wrapped up The Visitor. It's not my favorite episode, frankly I find it so gut wrenching that I seldom want to watch it, but it is the best thing they did. It's DS9's CotEoF. Reading up on a different episode I discovered that Rene Auberjonois was slated to direct it, and due to a scheduling conflict they had to swap episodes, and thus directors. RA is actually a pretty good director, so I suspect he'd have done just fine, but it woudln't have been the same. It's interesting to me how fragile greatness can be. Any number of oddball occurrences create the circumstances by which things happen. In this case, Colme Meaney has to nip off to shoot Con Air or something so they swap the shooting order of the two episodes, and somebody decides to leave the directors in place. Thus leaving an indelible mark on what turns out to be one of their very best episodes. I just always find things like that fascinating.
Another oddball effect from that is that RA's first directing gig turns out to be Hippocratic Oath, obviously starring Colme Meaney. Dude was completely unprepared for it, having been working on the prep for The Visitor, and basically get's tossed into the frying pan where he does an excellent job.
Damn your making good progress, it's taken me 2 years to get to enterprise, now that I'm in season one of enterprise is really rough trying to get through it.
I enjoy the obrien suffering episodes, partially because I think Colm Meaney does such a great job with them
I agree, but that doesn't necessarily make the episodes more appealing to watch. A wonderful depiction of a starving Jew at Auschwitz is certainly something to behold, but that doesn't mean I want to put it on one Saturday afternoon while cleaning house. And truthfully most of them are good Star Trek epsidoes. Some of them are just 40 minute capsules of misery.
I wasn't referring to all filler episodes, but only the O'brian Must Suffer episodes, and only a couple of them. Though I'd apply "40MCoM" to the Luwaxana Troi episodes, too. :lol I like Obrian, and I like the fact that they exploit his good nature once a season. Hell, even the ones I don't like are usually pretty good. They're just not what I want to see when casually watching ST.I agree, but that doesn't necessarily make the episodes more appealing to watch. A wonderful depiction of a starving Jew at Auschwitz is certainly something to behold, but that doesn't mean I want to put it on one Saturday afternoon while cleaning house. And truthfully most of them are good Star Trek epsidoes. Some of them are just 40 minute capsules of misery.
Way to be negative. :lol
On a whole, I've probably skipped three episodes through where I am at, in the last third of Season 5 of my rewatch. There are some clunkers, sure. But every Trek series has them. The format back then makes it almost impossible not to have some clunker/filler episodes. DS9 is by far the most intriguing Star Trek series because of its unique quality of being in one place. But I wouldn't call the episodes that are filler "40 minute capsules of misery." LOL. That's a bit melodramatic. :lol But hey, if you wanna view it that way, you do you my man. :coolio
I am sure it has been talked about like crazy, but while I "get" why DS9 was always the redheaded stepchild, to me, it made Star Trek more human. Anyway, on to Season Seven.I think it's the most "human" because it has the most aliens, and aliens of course represented non-ST humans. While the main cast all spend their time being enlightened and holier-than-thou, you've got Garak, Quark, Dukat, Damar, Kai Ratched, Weyoun, and various one-offs providing the flawed, human perspective and forcing the good guys to deal with them. Sloan is an interesting "human" character, but he's naturally the bad guy.
I just recently finished up season 7.Yes. Not sure what else to tell you.
Am I the only one who really disliked how it ended?
I just recently finished up season 7.
Am I the only one who really disliked how it ended?
Fair enough.I just recently finished up season 7.Yes. Not sure what else to tell you.
Am I the only one who really disliked how it ended?
I'm in the home stretch of season six right now. Just wrapped up Honor Among Thieves. It's one of the most un-Star Trek episodes you'll find, but one of O'Brien's best episodes.
What didn't you like about it hef?It just seemed anticlimactic to me. And the way that the story developed showing that Sisko was basically created/engineered by the prophets to be the emissary kind of wiped away any sense of freewill from his character. Until he decided to get married against their wishes, which caused, well, no repercussions that I could see. And I just didn't buy the Sisko vs. Dukat deathmatch to settle it all, which left Sisko in limbo, until some possible unspecified future date, possibly.
What didn't you like about it hef?It just seemed anticlimactic to me. And the way that the story developed showing that Sisko was basically created/engineered by the prophets to be the emissary kind of wiped away any sense of freewill from his character. Until he decided to get married against their wishes, which caused, well, no repercussions that I could see. And I just didn't buy the Sisko vs. Dukat deathmatch to settle it all, which left Sisko in limbo, until some possible unspecified future date, possibly.
If I'm the only one that didn't like it, that's cool.
Well, I wouldn't call it anticlimactic. The climax happened in the penultimate 2 hours with the final hour being an epilogue of sorts. Your assessment is pretty reasonable, though. I just didn't have a problem with Sisko's sacrifice. Particularly since sacrifice was a recurring theme with the prophets. The prophets did tell him he would find no happiness on Bajor, which is what he'd been clamoring for all along. He was already designing his house, after all. He was Moses, and I'd consider that a helluva repercussion.What didn't you like about it hef?It just seemed anticlimactic to me. And the way that the story developed showing that Sisko was basically created/engineered by the prophets to be the emissary kind of wiped away any sense of freewill from his character. Until he decided to get married against their wishes, which caused, well, no repercussions that I could see. And I just didn't buy the Sisko vs. Dukat deathmatch to settle it all, which left Sisko in limbo, until some possible unspecified future date, possibly.
If I'm the only one that didn't like it, that's cool.
What didn't you like about it hef?It just seemed anticlimactic to me. And the way that the story developed showing that Sisko was basically created/engineered by the prophets to be the emissary kind of wiped away any sense of freewill from his character. Until he decided to get married against their wishes, which caused, well, no repercussions that I could see. And I just didn't buy the Sisko vs. Dukat deathmatch to settle it all, which left Sisko in limbo, until some possible unspecified future date, possibly.
If I'm the only one that didn't like it, that's cool.
The extended universe, at least the first several books, are thought of very highly, and give the story, and Sisko's ultimate fate, a bit more life and color. Haven't read them in years, but recently repurchased the EU that wraps up the Sisko arcs with the prophets.
What didn't you like about it hef?It just seemed anticlimactic to me. And the way that the story developed showing that Sisko was basically created/engineered by the prophets to be the emissary kind of wiped away any sense of freewill from his character. Until he decided to get married against their wishes, which caused, well, no repercussions that I could see. And I just didn't buy the Sisko vs. Dukat deathmatch to settle it all, which left Sisko in limbo, until some possible unspecified future date, possibly.
If I'm the only one that didn't like it, that's cool.
Reaper -- S.D. Perry's novel titled UNITY is the one. That's the Sisko payoff.
The one thing I didn't like was the Bashir-O'Brien ending. I recall thinking the timing of it felt so odd, like "Oh by the way, I'm leaving for Earth, sorry I didn't tell you I was even thinking about this momentous decision, even though I like you more than my wife."
Reaper -- S.D. Perry's novel titled UNITY is the one. That's the Sisko payoff.
Awesome, I think I might skip mission gamma and left hand of destiny and just jump to rising son followed by unity
I don't recall any of that at all. However, I'll be starting S7 in a day or two and I'll certainly be on the lookout for it.The one thing I didn't like was the Bashir-O'Brien ending. I recall thinking the timing of it felt so odd, like "Oh by the way, I'm leaving for Earth, sorry I didn't tell you I was even thinking about this momentous decision, even though I like you more than my wife."
Honestly, I thought it built up that way through Season Seven. Watching through that season now, you see it. How O'Brien feels bad that Julian is alone, but how O'Brien is just sort of becoming more detached from Julian and moving forward with his life. Julian is a friend, but he's dedicated to his family. I felt like it really started with Molly's accident (the time warp thing). So the way they moved on (which I am not up to yet in my rewatch) makes sense to me.
I'm finding it is more difficult than ever to do it (A Stitch in Time - christ that's impossible to get at a reasonable price).
The one thing I didn't like was the Bashir-O'Brien ending. I recall thinking the timing of it felt so odd, like "Oh by the way, I'm leaving for Earth, sorry I didn't tell you I was even thinking about this momentous decision, even though I like you more than my wife."
Honestly, I thought it built up that way through Season Seven. Watching through that season now, you see it. How O'Brien feels bad that Julian is alone, but how O'Brien is just sort of becoming more detached from Julian and moving forward with his life. Julian is a friend, but he's dedicated to his family. I felt like it really started with Molly's accident (the time warp thing). So the way they moved on (which I am not up to yet in my rewatch) makes sense to me.Reaper -- S.D. Perry's novel titled UNITY is the one. That's the Sisko payoff.
Awesome, I think I might skip mission gamma and left hand of destiny and just jump to rising son followed by unity
I don't think its necessary per se, to read it all. But I think if you don't (and haven't) you don't really get a sense of the new character relationships. Once I finish my rewatch of DS9 (I'm not quite midway through Season 7), I am going to re-read both omnibus editions that are available.
The first contains both Avatar novels, and a few other things. The second contains the first couple of Mission Gamma novels. Then from there, I'll probably go right to Unity. I don't own all the EU novels. I once did, and stupidly sold them when I was trying to build a collection of other things. And I'm finding it is more difficult than ever to do it (A Stitch in Time - christ that's impossible to get at a reasonable price).
I don't recall any of that at all. However, I'll be starting S7 in a day or two and I'll certainly be on the lookout for it.
But Trek has never seemed to really lift off on the silver screen. Perhaps it simply isn't meant to. I haven't watched Discovery. Really no interest in it. I have high hopes for Picard, but that is based off Patrick Stewart's brilliance, and the nostalgic feelings of TNG stuff.On that poin't I think you're going to be sorely disappointed. It will have absolutely none of the look and feel of TNG. It'll have one or two of the characters, but they probably won't even be the same as you remember. I have zero expectations of it being something I'll want to watch. Because it's Patrick Stewart I'll probably give the premier a shot, but I suspect it'll just hack me off.
On a different note, about halfway through Season 7 - and the pushing of Ezri down our throats, while understandable, is just too much. Good lord I forgot how featured she is. Jadzia was so likeable, Ezri...it is a chore to really get into her character, and I remember feeling that way on my first watch of the series in 2003.I can see that, but Ezri never really had a chance. Dax wasn't particularly likeable until the second half of the second season. Early on they didn't know what they wanted her to be, and she was kind of bland. When she went off with the Klingons to kill the albino she gained some character, and that's when she started to become the free-spirited badass. Ezri never got the time to develop. Moreover, they set her up with a wonderful story, her complete unpreparedness for being joined, and having to come to terms with it on the fly, but they didn't have the time to let it play out. Too much Dominion war going on to devote time to Ezri's development. She therefore pretty much got relegated to DaxII status, but without any of the charm, and didn't grow much from that.
On that poin't I think you're going to be sorely disappointed. It will have absolutely none of the look and feel of TNG. It'll have one or two of the characters, but they probably won't even be the same as you remember. I have zero expectations of it being something I'll want to watch. Because it's Patrick Stewart I'll probably give the premier a shot, but I suspect it'll just hack me off.
I can see that, but Ezri never really had a chance. Dax wasn't particularly likeable until the second half of the second season. Early on they didn't know what they wanted her to be, and she was kind of bland. When she went off with the Klingons to kill the albino she gained some character, and that's when she started to become the free-spirited badass. Ezri never got the time to develop. Moreover, they set her up with a wonderful story, her complete unpreparedness for being joined, and having to come to terms with it on the fly, but they didn't have the time to let it play out. Too much Dominion war going on to devote time to Ezri's development. She therefore pretty much got relegated to DaxII status, but without any of the charm, and didn't grow much from that.
I mean, if you say so. But none of that stuff is considered canon, is it?What didn't you like about it hef?It just seemed anticlimactic to me. And the way that the story developed showing that Sisko was basically created/engineered by the prophets to be the emissary kind of wiped away any sense of freewill from his character. Until he decided to get married against their wishes, which caused, well, no repercussions that I could see. And I just didn't buy the Sisko vs. Dukat deathmatch to settle it all, which left Sisko in limbo, until some possible unspecified future date, possibly.
If I'm the only one that didn't like it, that's cool.
The extended universe, at least the first several books, are thought of very highly, and give the story, and Sisko's ultimate fate, a bit more life and color. Haven't read them in years, but recently repurchased the EU that wraps up the Sisko arcs with the prophets.
If I'm not mistaken, Terry Farrell was open to making appearances from time to time. Her objection was to the fulltime gig.
I mean, if you say so. But none of that stuff is considered canon, is it?
I've always thought of those books as glorified fan fiction.
Noah Hawley is an amazing writer. That is honestly the only thing exciting about this as I do NOT like the kelvin timeline stuff but I love Hawley.
I’m guessing, however, the studio will neuter him to making a typical mainstream popcorn explosion fest with 5-10% Hawley’s voice.
I never really got that from DS9. With one exception they wrapped up everything, and that exception was entirely Avery Brooks's doing. The Sisko dies and becomes a profit. End of story. He wanted the ambiguity so it wouldn't be just another story where a black man abandons his family. I think it's a bad move, but whatever. From my perspective the guy's dead and buried, thus concluding the show.
If you guys had to choose would you rather get a DS9 post as series movie or Voyager post series movie?
If you guys had to choose would you rather get a DS9 post as series movie or Voyager post series movie?
I'm looking at it from the standpoint of what the writers intended, and not based on the tacked-on ambiguity that was forced upon them. And it is ambiguous. He pops up and says maybe I'll be back someday. What, do we think he's going to return from being a Prophet and settle down with his family in his custom built home on Bajor? The Prophets told him he'd find no peace on Bajor, and he wouldn't spend his life with Cassidy. I think that pretty much covers it, occasional poltergeisting aside.I never really got that from DS9. With one exception they wrapped up everything, and that exception was entirely Avery Brooks's doing. The Sisko dies and becomes a profit. End of story. He wanted the ambiguity so it wouldn't be just another story where a black man abandons his family. I think it's a bad move, but whatever. From my perspective the guy's dead and buried, thus concluding the show.
I disagree. Sisko does not die. That's more of a literal interpretation of him falling to his pit and going to "heaven" with the prophets, and I don't think it is the correct one. He has spent time with the prophets before. He was saved by them, and is WITH them, to return when the time is right (which he tells Kasidy. And again, the baseball is on the desk. It's pretty clear to me that he's not gone permanently. I understand Avery Brooks not wanting it seem like a black man is abandoning his family. I think he was right to want that. But I think saying the "guy's dead and buried" misses the overall point about the Prophets and Sisko's tie to them. They saved him, he saved them, and he'll be back. It's all very clear to me. But that's the beauty of episodes like this, right? We all take it in different ways.
I'm looking at it from the standpoint of what the writers intended, and not based on the tacked-on ambiguity that was forced upon them. And it is ambiguous. He pops up and says maybe I'll be back someday. What, do we think he's going to return from being a Prophet and settle down with his family in his custom built home on Bajor? The Prophets told him he'd find no peace on Bajor, and he wouldn't spend his life with Cassidy. I think that pretty much covers it, occasional poltergeisting aside.
And El B -- I don't know you well, so don't take any of this as me being fired up or whatnot. No disrespect or antagonizing intended. We just disagree on that point is all. :)It's Star Trek. We're supposed to disagree vehemently and spend years debating tiny details. :lol
If I were to go with what Sisko said and not what the intended ending was, then I have to move strongly into Hef's camp that the final episode sucked.Well, we don't have the intended ending, whatever that may be. We only have the ending. All that happened is what happened on screen.
And El B -- I don't know you well, so don't take any of this as me being fired up or whatnot. No disrespect or antagonizing intended. We just disagree on that point is all. :)It's Star Trek. We're supposed to disagree vehemently and spend years debating tiny details. :lol
If I were to go with what Sisko said and not what the intended ending was, then I have to move strongly into Hef's camp that the final episode sucked. Him going off temporarily to be with the Prophets, only to return at some later point just doesn't make any sense. It's a corny ending that doesn't jibe with everything else we've seen from the show, and honestly makes no sense. Also, I've seen the baseball brought up a couple of times, and that doesn't make sense, either. He's non-corporial. Where would he put it? Do they have shelves for knickknacks in the celestial temple? Will he have his own room? A cubicle? Will he carry it around for the rest of time, like Marley's chains?
Something else that never really sat well with me is that he appears in a vision to Cassidy to tell her he'll be gone indefinitely, but why not Jake? He's got this awesome bond with his kid and he's only known Cassidey for what, 3 years? "By the way, tell Jake I said "see ya." That never really seemed right to me.
So in that documentary where the writers brainstorm a season 8, do they discuss the part where Rom get's thrown off the roof of a very tall building? The Ferengi aren't exactly known for being discrete or forgiving, and Rom's going back to fundamentally change their culture to one that apes the hu-mon's "enlightenment." Zek might have been able to pull it off. He was old and respected. Rom's a young idiot that nobody's ever heard of. He wouldn't last a week. Hell, Rom himself set out to assassinate Grand Nagus Quark, and that was over something trivial.
Some of these little details are interesting to me. Like how much does it suck to be the Breen at the end of the war? How many centuries does it take to shake off the stigma of being those guys that jumped in at the very end hoping to be on the winning side? The Kardassians are sympathetic here. The Breen are just a bunch of dicks.
I was being facetious. I just figured while watching WYLB that he was going to be one of those characters with a tragic outcome that gets overlooked.So in that documentary where the writers brainstorm a season 8, do they discuss the part where Rom get's thrown off the roof of a very tall building? The Ferengi aren't exactly known for being discrete or forgiving, and Rom's going back to fundamentally change their culture to one that apes the hu-mon's "enlightenment." Zek might have been able to pull it off. He was old and respected. Rom's a young idiot that nobody's ever heard of. He wouldn't last a week. Hell, Rom himself set out to assassinate Grand Nagus Quark, and that was over something trivial.
Some of these little details are interesting to me. Like how much does it suck to be the Breen at the end of the war? How many centuries does it take to shake off the stigma of being those guys that jumped in at the very end hoping to be on the winning side? The Kardassians are sympathetic here. The Breen are just a bunch of dicks.
Nope, didn't cover any of that at all.
So in that documentary where the writers brainstorm a season 8, do they discuss the part where Rom get's thrown off the roof of a very tall building? The Ferengi aren't exactly known for being discrete or forgiving, and Rom's going back to fundamentally change their culture to one that apes the hu-mon's "enlightenment." Zek might have been able to pull it off. He was old and respected. Rom's a young idiot that nobody's ever heard of. He wouldn't last a week. Hell, Rom himself set out to assassinate Grand Nagus Quark, and that was over something trivial.
Some of these little details are interesting to me. Like how much does it suck to be the Breen at the end of the war? How many centuries does it take to shake off the stigma of being those guys that jumped in at the very end hoping to be on the winning side? The Kardassians are sympathetic here. The Breen are just a bunch of dicks.
Nope, didn't cover any of that at all.
I actually wasn't too fond of the writers room because you had some FANTASTIC people in there who basically got sidelined by Ira and I think 1-2 others who essentially did the whole thing while people like Ron Moore just watched.
Awesome tribute from Nana about Rene.
https://variety.com/2019/tv/news/rene-auberjonois-remembered-by-star-trek-deep-space-nine-castmate-nana-visitor-1203429855/
Is season 1 out yet? Did anyone watch it?
It could be Patrick Stewart reading the Yellow Pages and it'd get renewed for a second season. They know people will watch it even if it sucks.
On an unrelated note, B'Elanna Torres is the worst Klingon in the history of the show. Not talking about the mostly human hybrid chick she normally plays, but the real Klingon half of her as created by the Vedians. All she does is talk. . . . .very. . . . . very. . . . . slow. When Siddig al Twentysevendifferentarabnames played a bad guy he always did the same thing, which sucked, but was nowhere near as bad as Dawson. I've been cruising through VOY and mostly enjoying it, but this is insufferable.
Yep, except Shatner pulled it off. He was fine as both the psycho and the wuss. Dawson not so much.On an unrelated note, B'Elanna Torres is the worst Klingon in the history of the show. Not talking about the mostly human hybrid chick she normally plays, but the real Klingon half of her as created by the Vedians. All she does is talk. . . . .very. . . . . very. . . . . slow. When Siddig al Twentysevendifferentarabnames played a bad guy he always did the same thing, which sucked, but was nowhere near as bad as Dawson. I've been cruising through VOY and mostly enjoying it, but this is insufferable.
They pulled a Shatner?
I just learned that Amazon Prime Video will have Star Trek: Picard videos within 24 hours of their air-date on CBS All Access.
:metal :metal :metal
I just learned that Amazon Prime Video will have Star Trek: Picard videos within 24 hours of their air-date on CBS All Access.The only thing I've seen is that it will be on Amazon Prime internationally.
:metal :metal :metal
I just learned that Amazon Prime Video will have Star Trek: Picard videos within 24 hours of their air-date on CBS All Access.The only thing I've seen is that it will be on Amazon Prime internationally.
:metal :metal :metal
I haven't seen anything about that happening here in the U.S.
Interesting! Perhaps now is the time to finally dig into DS9. I watched it a bit when it first started up, but life is complicated. Watching them all in order would be cool.
Interesting! Perhaps now is the time to finally dig into DS9. I watched it a bit when it first started up, but life is complicated. Watching them all in order would be cool.
Interesting! Perhaps now is the time to finally dig into DS9. I watched it a bit when it first started up, but life is complicated. Watching them all in order would be cool.
Get on this right away.
I don't get what people like about deep six nine. I've tried so many times to watch it but I just lose interest quickly. The show started off weak and did get a little better but IDK. What am I missing?
I don't get what people like about deep six nine. I've tried so many times to watch it but I just lose interest quickly. The show started off weak and did get a little better but IDK. What am I missing?
Deep Six Nine was sexylol
QuoteDeep Six Nine was sexylol
ReaperKK Thanks for the perspective, I appreciate the feedback. Maybe I'll try watching it again but I never felt the way you do about TNG. I felt that the characters in TNG evolved a lot, especially if you watch the 1st season, you can laugh at the low budget and corny acting. I know you can pick apart all of them but I :heart TNG and the characters. As far as the Borg goes, I always felt like they were the solution when they had writers block. I tend to skip most of those episodes.
Wished I found out sooner, Shatner is at the Flynn Theater in Burlington, VT tonight which is only 25 miles from my house. He's hosting a screening of Wrath of Khan. Guess it's kind of a tour.
Caught the first episode of Picard.
Anyone else?
I must say that I was pleased.
That was very satisfying.
Watched Picard and, yeah, loved it.
Then I went and saw some 'professional' reviews and the first one I see complains about how slow and tentative it starts out. SHUT UP! So tired of people just wanting wall-to-wall mindless action. God forbid, we also get intellectually challenged and have to use our brains.
Watched Picard and, yeah, loved it.
Then I went and saw some 'professional' reviews and the first one I see complains about how slow and tentative it starts out. SHUT UP! So tired of people just wanting wall-to-wall mindless action. God forbid, we also get intellectually challenged and have to use our brains.
Whew, that set me off. Anyway, really looking forward to how this plays out.
I heard good things about the first episode!
I'm dying to see Picard, but I don't have any way of seeing this, since there is no CBS All Access in my country! :tdwn
Guess I'll have to wait for Netflix to pick this up..
Watched Picard and, yeah, loved it.
Then I went and saw some 'professional' reviews and the first one I see complains about how slow and tentative it starts out. SHUT UP! So tired of people just wanting wall-to-wall mindless action. God forbid, we also get intellectually challenged and have to use our brains.
Whew, that set me off. Anyway, really looking forward to how this plays out.
Looks like I'll sign up for a few months of CBS to watch this. Ugh.
But as far as your complaint goes.....well, Star Trek has only itself to blame. For the last 11 years or so, Star Trek has actively rebranded itself as a fast paced action explosion fest franchise. While I, and most actual Trek fans prefer the slower more character based stuff, I'm not shocked newer fans are disappointed with something that might resemble actual Trek.
I heard good things about the first episode!
I'm dying to see Picard, but I don't have any way of seeing this, since there is no CBS All Access in my country! :tdwn
Guess I'll have to wait for Netflix to pick this up..
Outside of US and Canada, Amazon Prime was supposed to be streaming it 24 hours after the US air dates (https://www.startrek.com/news/stewart-picard-amazon-prime)
Watched Picard and, yeah, loved it.
Then I went and saw some 'professional' reviews and the first one I see complains about how slow and tentative it starts out. SHUT UP! So tired of people just wanting wall-to-wall mindless action. God forbid, we also get intellectually challenged and have to use our brains.
Whew, that set me off. Anyway, really looking forward to how this plays out.
Why was the technology/science to create more like Data lost?
How smart of him :lol And how come did Q not show up... That's the thing I want them to explain.
Why wouldn't he? He likes to show up in bad situations and make things worse but also help.
Why wouldn't he? He likes to show up in bad situations and make things worse but also help.
Ehhhhhh. I’m not really convinced. That was a good amount of some pretty awful writing. I dunno. This is starting to look like they’re sticking with the modern formula of dark, gritty, lots of twists and mysteries, and typical dramatic tropes.
Ehhhhhh. I’m not really convinced. That was a good amount of some pretty awful writing. I dunno. This is starting to look like they’re sticking with the modern formula of dark, gritty, lots of twists and mysteries, and typical dramatic tropes.
And that's bad how? I'm very much digging this. It's not a space exploration show, that's for sure.
Ehhhhhh. I’m not really convinced. That was a good amount of some pretty awful writing. I dunno. This is starting to look like they’re sticking with the modern formula of dark, gritty, lots of twists and mysteries, and typical dramatic tropes.
And that's bad how? I'm very much digging this. It's not a space exploration show, that's for sure.
Because then it’s just another sci-fi show like most other modern ones. It’s not unique like Star Trek was. It’s just typical.
Also sooo much of the dialogue was the characters speaking to the audience rather than each other. I dunno. The writing just feels mostly lazy and mediocre. If this wasn’t Picard, and didn’t have the great Patrick Stewart, I doubt anyone would care.
I want to like this. I really do. And it has redeeming elements. But it’s also just so mediocre and average and not-unique that I can’t simply give it a pass for not being awful.
It is called Star Trek: Picard.
I'm really enjoying the new show. I always thought Gene's vision of ST was laid out as an all star perfect utopia. In regards to the writing there has been some truly awful, lazy writing in every st series but that's just my opinion.
I personally love the new series and I'm happy it's on.
I'm really enjoying it. I can't believe it took me until halfway through the second episode to remember who Bruce Maddox is. Totally went past me initially.
I'm really enjoying it. I can't believe it took me until halfway through the second episode to remember who Bruce Maddox is. Totally went past me initially.
I can't believe it took me until RIGHT NOW (had to look it up). And I watched Measure of a Man just a couple months ago!
It is called Star Trek: Picard.
I expect Star Trek. And I expect good writing.
Because it's different. Picard isn't a 24 episode season that MANDATES 24 episodes. It can be whatever it wants.
I'm sorry, but this "bad writing of the past excuses bad writing now" is complete BS.
Also the kind of bad writing I'm talking about it is not the same kind of bad writing you're talking about. This isn't made on a relatively low budget for a group of fans you're not quite sure exist and has to appeal to the big masses because it's on cable. It's a streaming only show with a good budget with decades to learn from the mistakes of the past.
On the nose writing that is talking to the audience instead of characters talking to each other, plot twists for no reason, dumb dumb dumb motivations, and things only happening to make the plot move are not acceptable to me. I'm glad you're all perfectly fine with it, but I'm not. I expect them to respect the audience and this show does not seem to. To me.
I'm still hoping it gets better. It has the potential, but it's written very poorly in a different way than Code of Honor or whatever other examples you want cite
Again, doesn’t excuse it.
The difference is that TNG was episodic television and PIC is serialized.
To be fair, that's a recurring theme with series premiers. That's actually why I liked VOY's more than DS9's. The latter was too heavy-handed with its expository dialogue.
1) The characters are largely speaking to the audience and not each other. In that, this isn't what they would say to one another, it's just a lazy way of hand feeding the audience info.
To be fair, that's a recurring theme with series premiers. That's actually why I liked VOY's more than DS9's. The latter was too heavy-handed with its expository dialogue.
1) The characters are largely speaking to the audience and not each other. In that, this isn't what they would say to one another, it's just a lazy way of hand feeding the audience info.
Also, this is just coming back to me, and it didn't bother me THAT much but the whole Mars scene was way over the top. I remember talking to my mom about it and being like "that isn't how racism works!" Even racist people don't sit around all day every day talking about racist stuff. They also talk about normal things. On Mars it was like 95% racist comments toward the robots to really let us know that things were bad. This wasn't day 1, this was years of working together. It just felt unnatural and ham fisted. Again, I get the need, but it really could've been done with more subtlety than "HEY EVERYONE WE RACIST AGAINST ROBOTS!"
I get it dude. You don’t agree with me.
I get it dude. You don’t agree with me.
Well I tried. But we seem to be watching different shows!
Another good episode, I especially am intrigued by Raffi, hope they develop that character and her strained relationship with Picard intact. I expect things to move into overdrive on the overall story arc now that there actually in space.
As a person who identifies with initials for a first name, I fully embraced JL.
Ah, so they made him older to start with. When I watched a clip of the first episode I couldn't believe how old PS seemed.
Another good episode, I especially am intrigued by Raffi, hope they develop that character and her strained relationship with Picard intact. I expect things to move into overdrive on the overall story arc now that there actually in space.
Yeah... but "JL"!?!?! That was bad. Also, Stewart's de-aging was not done very effectively. Otherwise, things are moving forward now.
I often notice the disconnect about how technology moves forward so much in 20 years in current time, but (naturally) isn't representative in the tech of the future. For instance, control panels. In TOS, there are lights and knobs and dials and handles. In TNG, everything is touch screen. Now, we're seeing most things are 3D holograms - Raffi's "iPad", how Rios' ship controls etc... No way to avoid it, it's just a nit I always notice.
Not to change the subject but I started watching deep six nine per your recommendations. If Odo can change his appearance, why does he make himself look like an ugly woman wearing a mask before bed? Shouldn't he shapeshift into Brad Pit?
Not to change the subject but I started watching deep six nine per your recommendations. If Odo can change his appearance, why does he make himself look like an ugly woman wearing a mask before bed? Shouldn't he shapeshift into Brad Pit?Originally he said he just sucked a mimicking human appearances. There's an interesting comment in another 4 or 5 seasons where he's flying around. A Star Fleet Admiral tells him he made a pretty convincing hawk, and he replied "I doubt the other hawks would agree with you." Passable is one thing. Convincing is another.
There are times when they slap the com badge, talk and then never close the channel or say "out" which always made me chuckle since whoever's on the other end would hear the rest of the conversation. Small nits like that always make me laugh a little.
Picard episode 4: at this point, I can't tell if Adami will like this one or not.
But I certainly did.
Picard episode 4: at this point, I can't tell if Adami will like this one or not.
But I certainly did.
Also, I'm starting to think that the writers don't really get who Picard is for the most part. Some definite exceptions, but there's a number of aspects about the character that seem pretty off.More so than the movies where he kept flipping out and turning into John McClain?
sometimes ST:Picard is so talky it almost feels like a documentary, where Patrick Stewart is interviewing various pplYT comments are fun :lol
Also, I'm starting to think that the writers don't really get who Picard is for the most part. Some definite exceptions, but there's a number of aspects about the character that seem pretty off.More so than the movies where he kept flipping out and turning into John McClain?
Also, I'm starting to think that the writers don't really get who Picard is for the most part. Some definite exceptions, but there's a number of aspects about the character that seem pretty off.
That is a fun ep, come to think of it there were a lot of fun eps in voyager.
I'm currently half way through of season 3 of Enterprise and I'm really enjoying it. I'm curious if the show got a full 7 season run what it would've developed into.
I agree with you and I completely forgot that they changed the theme song slightly for season 3 onward.
Also, I'm starting to think that the writers don't really get who Picard is for the most part. Some definite exceptions, but there's a number of aspects about the character that seem pretty off.More so than the movies where he kept flipping out and turning into John McClain?
Well, that didn't bother me quite as much because he was still (minus Nemesis to some degree) the same guy, just needing to adapt to a new situation. It's also why I don't think it suits movies well. Movies need to make it action heavy, which tends to be a bit not-trecky. But even in First Contact and that other one about the dudes who get tons of face lifts and stuff, he was still the same character. He was just that character in situations that required a lot more action. And given that Starfleet is (at least partial) military, that didn't bother me.
This Picard isn't entirely different than the Picard we know, but I feel like the writers read a wiki article on him and missed a few important things. Picard is not comfortable around kids. Picard is largely very formal and proper. This Picard is just having a ball playing with kids with no discomfort at all, and is extremely silly and laid back much of the time. I get that characters change after 20 years, but you kind of have to justify some of it. You can't just change tons of stuff and be like "well that just happens." It's bad writing.
That moment when Picard got very stern with the sometimes British Romulan ninja kid was when I was like "Oh yea, THAT'S Picard" and made me realize how not-Picard he had been at times.
Also, unrelated to the character, but watching the show....is this just a pure capitalist world now? I keep getting hints that the federation has essentially gone (to some degree) capitalist or something. I dunno. It just feels so antithetical to what Star Trek was.
I will say, however, I am enjoying the expansion on the Romulans. After hating what they did with the Klingons in the JJ verse, I like making the Romulans a much more dynamic and diverse peoples, and not just identical soldier/spies.
Also, I'm right that all of the holograms on that ship are the same actor, right?Yes.
Cause I actually really dig that. Having the same actor playing multiple characters like that is actually a really cool idea and speaks to his ego that he'd program that.I like it too.
Sounds like a great idea. And yeah, speaks to his personality, both of his self confidence, and lack of confidence in others.
Reading this thread I come across a lot of great ideas that make me want to give it a chance, and a lot of stupid things that make me roll my eyes and think how typical of modern "Star Trek."
I didn't hate the world of the federation at all. I quite liked it, in fact. I just hated that its finest citizens were soulless drones. I can certainly see how a Federation built for modern audiences would have to look like the US, though. Imagination not really being the target audience's strong suit, and all.
And I gather the super-secret Romulan police are something other than the Tal Shiar? Those guys were so far beyond the pale I hardly see why they'd need their own Section 31 in addition to.
I watched the first episode last night. They very clearly set it in 2020 America, only with newer toys and more diverse architecture. I was actually surprised by how accurate it was in that regard, and fairly disappointed. Showing the corruption of paradise might have been interesting, but they started after the whole thing had turned into a modern shit-show.
And will there be some explanation for how Data painted a daughter he presumably never knew he would have?
I liked the idea of Dahj Bourne. Too bad they killed her. And killed her with exploding puke, no less.
She just got a double dose - exploding gun AND acidic spit/puke.
I laughed typing it, as well.She just got a double dose - exploding gun AND acidic spit/puke.
I have no idea why, but reading this (which is 100% accurate) in a Star Trek thread just makes me laugh.
Fifth episode was the best and fun so far (dodgy accent and eye patch aside). It's got a more standalone feel to it - let's call it the Heist episode. Be interested to see what those not fully engaged in the show make of this one.
Be interested to see what those not fully engaged in the show make of this one.It was terrible.
Be interested to see what those not fully engaged in the show make of this one.It was terrible.
I thought that'd be your response ;DI also grew up on TOS, and I didn't think TNG wasn't Star Trek. I thought it was shit, but it was very much still the same concepts and the same universe.
Just outta curiosity did you watch ToS or TNG (and spin offs) first? - Having personally grew up on the repeats of ToS my reaction to TNG when it was first broadcast is similar to yours with Picard - this is not Star Trek!
Edit: Soup dude, this isn't meant to dissuade your love of this show, at all. I am glad you like it, and hope you continue to love it.
This is a very good assessment. While I like your point about seeing the universe from outside the prism, it seems to me that it's even more fascinating to see the bad side of the Federation while they're still the good guys. You can do a good thing and still produce negative outcomes for others. We've seen this from time to time in the ST universe. Showing the federation as the bad guys is a great idea. Actually making them the bad guys not so much. There aren't any higher morals or ethical calculus driving their actions. They're just dicks. This is the difference between Star Trek and typical dystopia story-telling. One has meaning and one is just a narrative.
Edit: Soup dude, this isn't meant to dissuade your love of this show, at all. I am glad you like it, and hope you continue to love it.
It's all cool mate.
I'll give my take on why I'm quite enjoying it. At it's simple level this show has consequences, something Star Trek has never really dealt with. Actions have meaning now - Star Fleets decisions are being held accountable. Whereas before any number of truely extraordinary things did happen, and there was no consequence. Star Fleet in the spin off shows for me at least always seem smug, actually not altogether disimilar from the Borg - but whereas the Borg take by force, Star Fleet takes but judging a race on if it's fit to join Star Fleet (and then if it pass, it gets assimilated into it's rules and regulations!). And what is it with all the high end Star Fleet officers being corrupt? Admirals are notorious for being bad guys on the shows, that's not a good reflection on the organisation - you rise though the ranks, then when you reach the top you want to change it! I guess what I'm saying is I never truely brought the utopia side.
And we only ever really saw the universe from the point of view of the federation, we rarely get to see it from outside that bubble, and what it's really like out there. I quite enjoy that side, and Picard is struggling to adapt - although he's been out of Star Fleet for 14 years, he's basically retired to his chateua - now he's seeing Space without the prism of a Star Fleet uniform.
The gore, the sweating I'm not so keen - I suppose it adds a realism, but it doesn't effect my enjoymenr. The language itself is the biggest misstep for me, everyone seems to speak 21st century - that's the thing i'd change. Oh and the incest twins, those guys yeah.....
I’m starting to get there with ya Adami. This was a pretty bad episode, that just introduced 2 new mystery subplots - Raffi’s story, and Abigail’s. Picard was a secondary character this episode. The gore and swearing seems to be solely for the sake of “look, we’re not on network TV, so let’s do something a borderline R rated”. I’m fully expecting a tit-flash before the end of the series.
“Modern dystopian Sci-Fi” is exactly it - simply with a bunch of throwback nods to TNG and Voyager.
Maybe they're playing him as the idealistic old fool to set up the story for a huge crash for him?
Regardless of whether you are enjoying or not enjoying Picard, can we at least be happy that Seven appears to no longer to be with that sad sack of shite Chakotay.
Regardless of whether you are enjoying or not enjoying Picard, can we at least be happy that Seven appears to no longer to be with that sad sack of shite Chakotay.
Agreed
Regardless of whether you are enjoying or not enjoying Picard, can we at least be happy that Seven appears to no longer to be with that sad sack of shite Chakotay.
Agreed
I wouldn't be surprised, if we find out that both Janeway and Chakotay are six feet under at this point..
I still haven't seen a single episode of Picard, but I have caught up with the story more or less. The changing of the Federation seems to be a huge controversy in this show, but is it truly so hard to believe? We saw the Federation change before our very eyes during the TNG era. The Borg attack and the Dominion invasion caused the Federation to change, from the idealistic utopia that it is in the beginning of TNG to the entity we see in the Picard.
Remember that DS9 arc where that one admiral attempted to take control of the Federation, to change it into a more totalitarian government to counter the Dominion invasion? He failed, but the Synthetic attack on Mars could have been the thing, that allowed someone similar to succeed where he had failed.
I actually liked Chakotay. I mean, not all the time, but he was an interesting idea for a character that, like many of the characters on Voyager, was neutered. He had a lot of potential though.
I actually liked Chakotay. I mean, not all the time, but he was an interesting idea for a character that, like many of the characters on Voyager, was neutered. He had a lot of potential though.
I just found him a lazy wishy-washy mess of every native american/mystic cliche (vision quests, animal guides, meditation chants...ugh). But yeah he was sidelined after a while, I know Beltran has gone on record saying he was just picking up his paycheck towards the end, as he stopped caring about the character. Voyager would have been so much better if there tension between Star Fleet and The Maquis was actually allowed to develop, rather than just ending it in the Pilot, then Chakotay might have been an interesting character if he didn't just full in line...
Totally. It felt like a very odd decision to purposefully create a very tense situation and then just diffuse it after one episode.
I actually liked Chakotay. I mean, not all the time, but he was an interesting idea for a character that, like many of the characters on Voyager, was neutered. He had a lot of potential though.
I just found him a lazy wishy-washy mess of every native american/mystic cliche (vision quests, animal guides, meditation chants...ugh). But yeah he was sidelined after a while, I know Beltran has gone on record saying he was just picking up his paycheck towards the end, as he stopped caring about the character. Voyager would have been so much better if there tension between Star Fleet and The Maquis was actually allowed to develop, rather than just ending it in the Pilot, then Chakotay might have been an interesting character if he didn't just full in line...
I actually liked Chakotay. I mean, not all the time, but he was an interesting idea for a character that, like many of the characters on Voyager, was neutered. He had a lot of potential though.
I just found him a lazy wishy-washy mess of every native american/mystic cliche (vision quests, animal guides, meditation chants...ugh). But yeah he was sidelined after a while, I know Beltran has gone on record saying he was just picking up his paycheck towards the end, as he stopped caring about the character. Voyager would have been so much better if there tension between Star Fleet and The Maquis was actually allowed to develop, rather than just ending it in the Pilot, then Chakotay might have been an interesting character if he didn't just full in line...
So I don't know if this is true or not but I heard on a ST podcast I listen to that VOY hired a consultant for the native american stuff and it turned out the dude they hired was a complete fraud and had no idea what he was talking to in regards to native american history and culture.
Shocking moment.....I mostly liked the episode.
It was character driven which was a nice change. Allison Pills character is pretty bad and the ending was very dumb. The rest of it? Not bad!
Shocking moment.....I mostly liked the episode.:clap:
It was character driven which was a nice change. Allison Pills character is pretty bad and the ending was very dumb. The rest of it? Not bad!
6B) Legalos or whatever staying behind. WHY?!?! How are you defending Picard who just left? You're not accomplishing anything. You're just being a plot device, not a character. Now Picard is on a random planet with a deadly robot and he has no protection. Good job numb nuts.I thought that at first as well, but Hugh said something about taking a few minutes to power down the system after they left, so any pursuers could potentially be able to follow them through until that was done. In which case it would be good to have someone there to dissuade such pursuit.
6B) Legalos or whatever staying behind. WHY?!?! How are you defending Picard who just left? You're not accomplishing anything. You're just being a plot device, not a character. Now Picard is on a random planet with a deadly robot and he has no protection. Good job numb nuts.I thought that at first as well, but Hugh said something about taking a few minutes to power down the system after they left, so any pursuers could potentially be able to follow them through until that was done. In which case it would be good to have someone there to dissuade such pursuit.
The concept seems a little dumb to me, but Hugh said it.
6B) Legalos or whatever staying behind. WHY?!?! How are you defending Picard who just left? You're not accomplishing anything. You're just being a plot device, not a character. Now Picard is on a random planet with a deadly robot and he has no protection. Good job numb nuts.I thought that at first as well, but Hugh said something about taking a few minutes to power down the system after they left, so any pursuers could potentially be able to follow them through until that was done. In which case it would be good to have someone there to dissuade such pursuit.
The concept seems a little dumb to me, but Hugh said it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EigIujKxDcE
I’ll give you Sushi. I’m better than that. But the Romulan characters, I honestly can’t remember their names. Elron? I dunno.
Found this, pretty funny but emphasizes my point why I thought it was dumb and a sign of the bad lazy writing that has become commonplace.This one is better :lol https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LuGdT6VWUqs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_9wDASisvEc&feature=emb_logo
Also quick question.I'm watching a video right now explainig all of the rights issues. Damn, they made a mess of things.
I know there's some issues with who holds design rights? Which is the why the klingons look so dumb now?
I was wondering why, except for the establishing Enterprise D show in the first episode, we haven't seen a single Starfleet design ship? Is it that they can't?
Cause every ship design, minus the classic warbird, has been extremely generic and typical modern sci-fi. I miss the Star Trek designs. I wonder if they're even allowed to use them though?
Also, I don't watch those kinds of reviews since they are inherently bias toward positive reviews. I'd rather watch people who have no incentive to be extra kind and supportive.
Also, I don't watch those kinds of reviews since they are inherently bias toward positive reviews. I'd rather watch people who have no incentive to be extra kind and supportive.
Oh, yeah. They're not reviews at all but just kind of an "after-show". But they do have some interesting interview segments.
Okay, so what the hell was it saying when she was scanning pictures and the other crap in her room? I am so annoyed watching this show, I have to turn the volume way up to hear what the hell they are saying and then all of a sudden it's so fucking loud it can wake the dead. So, of course, I turn it back down and then I'm back to going wtf did they say? :tdwn
Soup, you’re still doing that thing. It doesn’t matter if the borg were written inconsistently at times in the past. That never justifies bad writing. The only thing you’re implying is that your standards are low, not that the writing isn’t dumb.
We cool. I ain’t no soup nazi.
I think that’s a big difference though. Your standards are low. Mine aren’t. Star Trek is important to me, so I never go looking for mindless entertainment.
We cool. I ain’t no soup nazi.
I think that’s a big difference though. Your standards are low. Mine aren’t. Star Trek is important to me, so I never go looking for mindless entertainment.
Don't get me wrong I love Star Trek. I grew up on repeats of ToS and watched TNG when it was first broadcast, and DS9 is one of my favorite shows. But I've always put the dumb writing, silly episodes, science magic as part of Star Trek's charm. As long as it's not boring me, I'm generally cool with it (that's why I'm not so keen on Voyager and Enterprise as much, because a found a lot of their episode boring)
Don't know whether or not your into Doctor Who Adami. But now there is a show that I'm really, really struggling with right now. Under Russel T Davis and Steven Moffat the show was glorious fun, but since Chris Chibnell came on aboard as the show writer it's so flat and lifeless. I guess that's how you feel about Picard?
I actually refuse to watch Dr. Who. Not because it's bad, but because I'm a completionist and would need to watch from Ep 1. And lord knows that ain't gonna happen with Dr. Who.
I feel like the writers either don't care enough to try or ....wait....this is the same guy who wrote Transformers movies.
I think, if nothing else, those resumes give a good indication of how the studio sees the franchise.CBS view the ST catalog as nothing more than a merchandising stream. Putting butts in seats is all that matters. As awful as the resume is from an artistic standpoint, how much money do you think it made?
They want it to be like Marvel, or Star Wars, or Transformers. But Star Trek is Star Trek and has a unique voice. The studio clearly has no idea what that voice is and is trying to match it to other voices it knows and it keeps failing.
I think, if nothing else, those resumes give a good indication of how the studio sees the franchise.CBS view the ST catalog as nothing more than a merchandising stream. Putting butts in seats is all that matters. As awful as the resume is from an artistic standpoint, how much money do you think it made?
They want it to be like Marvel, or Star Wars, or Transformers. But Star Trek is Star Trek and has a unique voice. The studio clearly has no idea what that voice is and is trying to match it to other voices it knows and it keeps failing.
Also, I've come to realize that from a writing standpoint they view Picard as a completely different universe than TNG. They have no obligations to that and could just as easily have made him Juan Lucien de Picardo, had they wished.
That's basically what they did. I didn't watch it, but my recollection is that you still had people named Adama, Starbuck, Boomer, etc. in largely the same roles they originally had. Paramount/Bad Robot did the same thing. They just didn't want to call it a reboot so they crafted a cover story[ies]. The obvious one about the new timeline created by, eh, some shit. Then the invented "prime" universe which is the original reboot before "some shit" happened. Internally Picard now is an alternate universe Picard, thus unaffected by all of that pointless TNG stuff. He's the Picard from Bad Robot's universe.I think, if nothing else, those resumes give a good indication of how the studio sees the franchise.CBS view the ST catalog as nothing more than a merchandising stream. Putting butts in seats is all that matters. As awful as the resume is from an artistic standpoint, how much money do you think it made?
They want it to be like Marvel, or Star Wars, or Transformers. But Star Trek is Star Trek and has a unique voice. The studio clearly has no idea what that voice is and is trying to match it to other voices it knows and it keeps failing.
Also, I've come to realize that from a writing standpoint they view Picard as a completely different universe than TNG. They have no obligations to that and could just as easily have made him Juan Lucien de Picardo, had they wished.
Do you think they would have been better just rebooting the universe entirely - like they did with Battlestar? Or setting the new shows in the JJ verse. Rather than continuing along the old time line.
I think, if nothing else, those resumes give a good indication of how the studio sees the franchise.CBS view the ST catalog as nothing more than a merchandising stream. Putting butts in seats is all that matters. As awful as the resume is from an artistic standpoint, how much money do you think it made?
They want it to be like Marvel, or Star Wars, or Transformers. But Star Trek is Star Trek and has a unique voice. The studio clearly has no idea what that voice is and is trying to match it to other voices it knows and it keeps failing.
Also, I've come to realize that from a writing standpoint they view Picard as a completely different universe than TNG. They have no obligations to that and could just as easily have made him Juan Lucien de Picardo, had they wished.
Do you think they would have been better just rebooting the universe entirely - like they did with Battlestar? Or setting the new shows in the JJ verse. Rather than continuing along the old time line.
Edit: And I apologize for much I'm going off in this thread. I said I'd keep my thoughts to myself in Star Wars because it doesn't mean much to me, but I am letting loose here. Star Trek is important to me.
Hey Adami. Episode 7 is a real treat, I really hope you enjoy it - I think you will.
, but I'm always open minded about it.
, but I'm always open minded about it.
I can see that, and respect it. That's why I really hope you enjoy this one! I look forward to your opinion whatever you feel.
Lastly, and not about the episode, why is everyone talking about the gore? I kept reading about it, even here. I mean yea, they shot some Borg I guess and Hugh got his neck stabbed, but none of it was super gory at all. Reading the random thoughts ahead of time (by accident) had me FREAKING OUT that they were going to brutally murder the Riker kid. I would have immediately quit the show if they had, so luckily they did not. But still, it's not gory. It's dumb, but not gory, at least this episode. The dumb 7 of 9 episode was though.
The evil Romulan bad girl is just.......bad. A little too mustache twirly for me.
In terms of gore, I was referring to that blonde chick taking the pill with that extreme, stupid, close up on her annoying face. Another thing , as they keep pointing it out, it seems like they just don't want Picard to be Picard. Because of his condition, he's just a "plot device", not a character. He just walks around aimlessly and others fix his shit for him. I don't think he's done one meaningful thing in this show yet.
Lastly, and not about the episode, why is everyone talking about the gore? I kept reading about it, even here. I mean yea, they shot some Borg I guess and Hugh got his neck stabbed, but none of it was super gory at all. Reading the random thoughts ahead of time (by accident) had me FREAKING OUT that they were going to brutally murder the Riker kid. I would have immediately quit the show if they had, so luckily they did not. But still, it's not gory. It's dumb, but not gory, at least this episode. The dumb 7 of 9 episode was though.
It's 2020 and the internet, twitter is just mostly a cesspit of circle jerking negativity. People just seem happy to hate. I've seen people hating Picard because it's full of swearing and gore, and I've seen people hating Picard because it's 'woke' (like Star Trek was never woke...). Most of these people aren't even watching the show, just repeating the bile the incels on youtube are spewing out. Constructive criticism (like your feedback) is fine - but negativity for negativities sake...just sad. It's even worse thesedays because everything has to now be viewed though a left or right wing political bias.
Anyway Troi was my MVP last night. Which was a massive surprise, as it only really felt like the developed her character properly in 'First Contact' - and this felt like a continuation of that Troi.The evil Romulan bad girl is just.......bad. A little too mustache twirly for me.
Agreed. Not a great character anyway, but not helped by a hammy 'villiany' performance by the actress. Worst thing in the show for me.
A site I love for all things Star Trek is Jammers site. A pure Star Trek fan who has has been writting reviews for Star Trek for years - every episode of all the shows, and a few other shows similar in vein to Star Trek (Orville, BSG). His reviews are purely from a Trek's fan point of view with no bullshit. And he's built up a fanbase who can happy comment on the reviews/episodes.
https://www.jammersreviews.com/
Well worth a look. He didn't like episode 5 of Picard at all (7 of 9 episode with Eyeball gore).
You should really check out the greatest discovery and greatest gen podcasts. It's two who love star trek who go through every episode and review it. There is a lot of comedy to it but they are sincere in their appreciation for ST. The Greatest Gen has reviewed all of TNG and is in season 6 of DS9 and The Grestest Discovefy has reviewed all of Disco, short treks and is now doing Picard.
The scene with Deanna talking to Jean-Luc in her late son's bedroom had me welling up slightly.
You should really check out the greatest discovery and greatest gen podcasts. It's two who love star trek who go through every episode and review it. There is a lot of comedy to it but they are sincere in their appreciation for ST. The Greatest Gen has reviewed all of TNG and is in season 6 of DS9 and The Grestest Discovefy has reviewed all of Disco, short treks and is now doing Picard.
You should really check out the greatest discovery and greatest gen podcasts. It's two who love star trek who go through every episode and review it. There is a lot of comedy to it but they are sincere in their appreciation for ST. The Greatest Gen has reviewed all of TNG and is in season 6 of DS9 and The Grestest Discovefy has reviewed all of Disco, short treks and is now doing Picard.
Just listened to the forth episode and nearly crashed my car after an exchange that went something like this....
- Four episodes into the show (TNG) and they've all ready had Picard offer to surrender twice, way to build a heroic captain.
- I think they are just trying to establishing his credentials.
- What?
- He's French.
I can’t say it was the dumbest episode yet, but it sure tried to be.
The table scene between Picard and Soji was good, but that's it. Rest of the episode was terrible.
I generally think one of the bigger issues is old Star Trek was at it's core a work based show, each week/episode we'd see the crew at work having to solve a problem.
Modern Trek has chosen to go with long story arcs whereas before the Star Trek Universe was shown though the eyes of these one shot stories, and frankly if you put it all together it's complete nonsense. To start with how many God like entities have we seen?
A show like 'The Expanse' for instance setup their universe for their story and things make sense, because there isn't 500+ episodes of scattershot lore and strange power levels to adhere to. And people get upset or angry when they see something that isn't in line with old Trek, depict the fact old Trek itself has huge lore inconsistencies anyway!
Should they go back and just make another work based Trek? One story episodes? Well Voyager and Enterprise showed that that style had probably run it's course. The Orville does a similar thing, but that has the advantage of not being Trek, so the humour is it's own thing and it can create it's own lore....and even that isn't doing great in the ratings.
I'm not sure if this was aimed at me or just a general defense of new Trek, but if you think my issue with Picard is that it's longer story arcs and not random unrelated episodes then I have done an awful job at conveying my complaints. I love longer story arcs and have 0 issues with them at all.
DS9 did them wonderfully. As did season 3 of Enterprise (which I just finished and thought was awesome). BSG is one of my favorite shows and was basically a multiple season long story. So no, longer arcs are NOT one of the issues with modern Trek. It might be what a few random people complain about, but it's hardly an issue most people have with it.
We just seem to see Star Trek very differently. It's all good. Glad you're digging the new direction. I'm sad I'm not.
We just seem to see Star Trek very differently. It's all good. Glad you're digging the new direction. I'm sad I'm not.
I'm enjoying both Disco and Picard enough. I think both are better than Voyager and Enterprise, they could be better though. But neither are top tier TV for me (The Expanse is the best space Sci-Fi show I'm watching). Only peak DS9 i'd class as consistent top tier TV from Trek. The problem is there are so many great shows on at the minute making room to watch em all is hard!
While I'd say that the worst episodes of Enterprise or Voyager are WAY worse than the worst episodes of Picard, I would very much put both of those shows above Picard as a while. Granted, that's not a fair comparison since I'm comparing 7 seasons of one show and 4 seasons of another to (as of now, I think) 8 episodes. Voyager and Enterprise definitely have more than eight episodes that are worse than Picard.
And while I totally agree that it's hard (I'd say damn near impossible) to make room to watch all the current shows, I have spent so much of my last month and next month studying for a licensure test, that I refuse to start watching anything new. I'll watch my weekly shows, since it's safe from binge temptation, but beyond that it's just youtube and Shark Tank. Though I am, now and again, watching Enterprise as part of my huge Star Trek rewatch.
You forgot the only episode of any Star Trek I refuse to rewatch. The series finale for Enterprise. A lot of episodes are bad, but none are as actively insulting. Though Picard is making an effort.I didn't forget it. I just found worse candidates. Also, if you watch the edited version without Troi and Riker it's nowhere near as insufferable.
You forgot the only episode of any Star Trek I refuse to rewatch. The series finale for Enterprise. A lot of episodes are bad, but none are as actively insulting. Though Picard is making an effort.I didn't forget it. I just found worse candidates. Also, if you watch the edited version without Troi and Riker it's nowhere near as insufferable.
One episode of Voyager and Trek in general that I dislike, that doesn't get enough hate is 'The Q and the Grey'. Basically Q turns up on Voyager and asks Janeway to mate with him.....Awful. First half is a Q trying to serenade Janeway with a series of painfully unfunny terrible set comedy routines. Then we get a jealous female Q turn up and more terrible love triangle comedy...then we get some strange re-ienactment of the American Civil War, because metaphor reasons.....Over time Q became a comedic character. Sort of like Scotty in the movies. That was a shame. Though in this case it was DS9 that transformed him. I think that's where the sense of menace disappeared. The same thing happened with the Borg becoming villains of the week (FC, I would say). That said, I thought Death Wish was very good.
The whole thing is just terrible and completely shites on the established lore of Q (and the Q).
And all the time Q is hitting on Janeway - she never says, OK I'll do it but you have to send us home, you know the whole premise of the show.
This episode also features Neelix's stupid island holo-program - which appeared for about 5 episodes and was embarrassing in every one.
Generally those Worst Trek episode lists are full of hokey, goofy episodes - bad obviously, but you can take something from them by laughing at how stupid they are. The worst ones are the flatout boring episodes TNG's 'Devil's Due', DS9's 'Chrysalis' or Voy 'Unforgettable' for example, completely devoid of anything interesting.
Suffering through The Fight (VOY) got me thinking about the worst episodes of VOY, and by extension each of the franchises. Listing favorite episodes happens here once or twice a year, but I don't recall anybody trying to list their least favorite, so here goes.
The Empath--Let's torture McCoy for a day or two and see how it goes.
And the Children Shall Suck
The Lights of Zetar-- as a kid it always creeped me out with the garbled voices coming out of people. As an adult it creeps me out anytime Scotty is trying to get laid.
The Child--The last thing TNG needed was giving Troi a maternal sentimentality to whine on and on about.
The OUtcast--Partly because androgynous peopled creep me out, and partly because it was stupid. When they need somebody to score with a person who's not attractive as a male or a female they think of Riker?
Masks--Not only did it not make any sense, but Spiner sucks as anybody not named Data.
Profit and Lace--Ferengi attitudes towards women are fine the way they are. Leave them alone, FFS.
Move Along Home--Stupid game followed by stupider ending.
Crossover--None of the DS9 mirror universe episodes are any good, but the one that started it sucked the most. Frankly, killing Sisko then made the next four more tolerable.
Threshold--Fucking lizards, man.
The Fight--I don't even know that it's supposed to be about, and I just watched [most of] it.
The Thaw--Just insufferable.
Extinction--"one of the singularly most embarrassing episodes of Star Trek I've ever been involved with." (Braga)
North Star--Yeah! A Western!
Coginitor--Great, more androgynous people.
Really, TNG and DS9 could have been made up entirely of Luwaxana episodes. Also, I've only made it through The FIght most recently, so I'm not entirely up on seasons six and seven of VOY, and all of ENT.
Yeah, unsettling isn't usually what I want from ST. You'll notice a trend in my picks with that in mind.Suffering through The Fight (VOY) got me thinking about the worst episodes of VOY, and by extension each of the franchises. Listing favorite episodes happens here once or twice a year, but I don't recall anybody trying to list their least favorite, so here goes.
The Empath--Let's torture McCoy for a day or two and see how it goes.
And the Children Shall Suck
The Lights of Zetar-- as a kid it always creeped me out with the garbled voices coming out of people. As an adult it creeps me out anytime Scotty is trying to get laid.
The Child--The last thing TNG needed was giving Troi a maternal sentimentality to whine on and on about.
The OUtcast--Partly because androgynous peopled creep me out, and partly because it was stupid. When they need somebody to score with a person who's not attractive as a male or a female they think of Riker?
Masks--Not only did it not make any sense, but Spiner sucks as anybody not named Data.
Profit and Lace--Ferengi attitudes towards women are fine the way they are. Leave them alone, FFS.
Move Along Home--Stupid game followed by stupider ending.
Crossover--None of the DS9 mirror universe episodes are any good, but the one that started it sucked the most. Frankly, killing Sisko then made the next four more tolerable.
Threshold--Fucking lizards, man.
The Fight--I don't even know that it's supposed to be about, and I just watched [most of] it.
The Thaw--Just insufferable.
Extinction--"one of the singularly most embarrassing episodes of Star Trek I've ever been involved with." (Braga)
North Star--Yeah! A Western!
Coginitor--Great, more androgynous people.
Really, TNG and DS9 could have been made up entirely of Luwaxana episodes. Also, I've only made it through The FIght most recently, so I'm not entirely up on seasons six and seven of VOY, and all of ENT.
The Thaw?? :huh:
I thought it was the best episode of the first 2 seasons, excluding the pilot. That scene between Janeway and "Fear" was outstanding. I thought the episode was almost unsettling at times, and ramped up the intensity nicely into a great ending!
I don't know about specific episodes but any mirror episode is usually fist-gnawingly hammy. I still shudder thinking of Nerys in black leather, purring and writhing like she's in Cats, and I stand as someone who found her fairly attractive.She was certainly nicely built, so that should have come off far better than it did. Her acting ruined a decisive advantage she should have had.
In fact, that whole hammy baddy in black leather cliche they have always done is so patheticly bad it makes my brain hurty.Ezri pulled it off. And let's not forget mirror universe Hot Slutty Hoshi.
I don't know about specific episodes but any mirror episode is usually fist-gnawingly hammy. I still shudder thinking of Nerys in black leather, purring and writhing like she's in Cats, and I stand as someone who found her fairly attractive.She was certainly nicely built, so that should have come off far better than it did. Her acting ruined a decisive advantage she should have had.QuoteIn fact, that whole hammy baddy in black leather cliche they have always done is so patheticly bad it makes my brain hurty.Ezri pulled it off. And let's not forget mirror universe Hot Slutty Hoshi.
I don't know about specific episodes but any mirror episode is usually fist-gnawingly hammy. I still shudder thinking of Nerys in black leather, purring and writhing like she's in Cats, and I stand as someone who found her fairly attractive.She was certainly nicely built, so that should have come off far better than it did. Her acting ruined a decisive advantage she should have had.QuoteIn fact, that whole hammy baddy in black leather cliche they have always done is so patheticly bad it makes my brain hurty.Ezri pulled it off. And let's not forget mirror universe Hot Slutty Hoshi.
In some cases bad enough to ruin what should have been very good episodes. Far Beyond the Stars could have been fantastic, were it not for the terrible acting. As I've long said, most of them were pretty bad. They're fantastic as their own characters, but as soon as you ask them to be somebody else it shows their flaws. Spiner is the classic example of that. The mirror universe episodes relied on them playing caricatures of their own characters, and that just meant hamming it up all over the place.I don't know about specific episodes but any mirror episode is usually fist-gnawingly hammy. I still shudder thinking of Nerys in black leather, purring and writhing like she's in Cats, and I stand as someone who found her fairly attractive.She was certainly nicely built, so that should have come off far better than it did. Her acting ruined a decisive advantage she should have had.QuoteIn fact, that whole hammy baddy in black leather cliche they have always done is so patheticly bad it makes my brain hurty.Ezri pulled it off. And let's not forget mirror universe Hot Slutty Hoshi.
As great as DS9 was, two of it's main cast (arguably THE two main characters) were quite hammy actors - Nana and Avery. Avery's performance in the show was generally quite odd - he could go completely flat to full Shatner in the space of a few lines!
In some cases bad enough to ruin what should have been very good episodes. Far Beyond the Stars could have been fantastic, were it not for the terrible acting. As I've long said, most of them were pretty bad. They're fantastic as their own characters, but as soon as you ask them to be somebody else it shows their flaws. Spiner is the classic example of that. The mirror universe episodes relied on them playing caricatures of their own characters, and that just meant hamming it up all over the place.I don't know about specific episodes but any mirror episode is usually fist-gnawingly hammy. I still shudder thinking of Nerys in black leather, purring and writhing like she's in Cats, and I stand as someone who found her fairly attractive.She was certainly nicely built, so that should have come off far better than it did. Her acting ruined a decisive advantage she should have had.QuoteIn fact, that whole hammy baddy in black leather cliche they have always done is so patheticly bad it makes my brain hurty.Ezri pulled it off. And let's not forget mirror universe Hot Slutty Hoshi.
As great as DS9 was, two of it's main cast (arguably THE two main characters) were quite hammy actors - Nana and Avery. Avery's performance in the show was generally quite odd - he could go completely flat to full Shatner in the space of a few lines!
I don't know about specific episodes but any mirror episode is usually fist-gnawingly hammy. I still shudder thinking of Nerys in black leather, purring and writhing like she's in Cats, and I stand as someone who found her fairly attractive.She was certainly nicely built, so that should have come off far better than it did. Her acting ruined a decisive advantage she should have had.QuoteIn fact, that whole hammy baddy in black leather cliche they have always done is so patheticly bad it makes my brain hurty.Ezri pulled it off. And let's not forget mirror universe Hot Slutty Hoshi.
As great as DS9 was, two of it's main cast (arguably THE two main characters) were quite hammy actors - Nana and Avery. Avery's performance in the show was generally quite odd - he could go completely flat to full Shatner in the space of a few lines!
Brooks didn't go full ham. Brooks just well full Brooks.
Found the first part of the Picard finale quite underwhelming. The direction was oddly flat too. Hopefully part two will be better.
Found the first part of the Picard finale quite underwhelming. The direction was oddly flat too. Hopefully part two will be better.
Maybe I’ll love it haha.
I will state further that the pacing of the show is the best part of it, and I'm afraid it is something they will do away with. It's the intricate dialog and slower pacing that makes it so much more personal.
I was an OG fan from the TOS days. (well....not the original run, although I did see TMP in theaters when it was first released)
I saw TNG from day one and loved most of it.
I feel the way most people do about the movies...with the exception that I adore Insurrection for personal reasons.
Never could get into DS9, but I heard it got better, so I want to revisit it.
Wanted to love Voyager because I loved the premise, but it mostly fell flat. Some brilliant flashes on occasion, but I still enjoy it for what it is.
Didn't like Discovery at all. Doesn't feel like Star Trek at all. Couldn't get past the first few episodes. Calling that show ST is just wrong to me.
However, Picard is another story. I **LOVE** this show. I absolutely feel that this show captures what Star Trek is now. There's a dash of the old, and making it fresh and original at the same time. It's a mishmash of familiarity and new elements (not new per se, but new to ST) that are sometimes needed to give things a fresh perspective.
I will state further that the pacing of the show is the best part of it, and I'm afraid it is something they will do away with. It's the intricate dialog and slower pacing that makes it so much more personal.
You’re free to dismiss my criticism if you’d like.
Glad you’re loving the show. As I’ve said many times, I’m glad others love it. I wish I was as well. I really did want to like it.
I’d respond more in detail if you’re open minded enough to read it but since you essentially just dismissed all of my objections as nonsensical, I’m not sure it’s worth the effort on my part. Happy to be wrong though.
I’ve made multiple more in depth posts of my issues. But it becomes redundant and time consuming to critically discuss every single issue I have with the show. I’ve even praised certain aspects of the show. Before insulting me, please reread those.
I can't disagree with a single thing you wrote. Don't know about the robot god species from Voyager ... I only ever watched a handful of episodes here and there. Rios' feelings for Agnes seem weird to me - they schtooped once, and now he acts like she's his high-school sweetheart. I too like Raff's actress, but the character as an on-again / off-again addict, spygames ex-Starfleet officer is just ... I don't comprehend her characters purpose or what she's really there for. Too many events have happened that just seemed to have no purpose. I very much get what you're saying that characters are more of a plot device than anything else - Narek the most.
Just finished Picard, and it ended in pretty grand style, though I would have liked to see the Federation and the Romulans really throw down. Stupid diplomacy...
I'll wait for everyone else to catch up before digging into the big spoilery thingys.
Just finished Picard, and it ended in pretty grand style, though I would have liked to see the Federation and the Romulans really throw down. Stupid diplomacy...
I'll wait for everyone else to catch up before digging into the big spoilery thingys.
I'll watch it in like an hour after my phone session. I'll even try, no matter what, to avoid the words dumb and stupid in my review. :yarr
:lol
You're take on it Adami should be... Interesting... Especially the ending.
Yeah, the only thing that kind of pissed me off is how they used the sci fi writer's perogative of inventing the doo-hickey process to get out of the situation they wrote themselves into. That and the battle scene could've been 1000 times more epic for sure.
She has gotten unbelievably sexier with age man. :hefdaddy
I never ever saw the movie or the show, and that closing shot just screamed it at me.Nah, she's always been highly protective of those things.
Also, very disappointed we didn't get a Jeri Ryan tittie flash. Maybe they're holding that for S2.
So cool to see him in a space ship and uniform! Felt massively forced but it did make me smile.
So cool to see him in a space ship and uniform! Felt massively forced but it did make me smile.
I think that is a great way to describe it. Massively forced, but made me smile.
Apparently it was also a reshoot. Seems the F bomb admiral was originally supposed to be the person who saves the day. Makes more sense, but not as psychological manipulative.
After part one I was worried, but this was actually quite a solid piece of work.
- After constantly looking like a man out of touch, Picard came good - saved the day with a speech. Pure TNG.
- Data gets a proper send off, addresses that naff death from Nemesis.
- Hey Chakotay you dull sack of shite - your wife dumped you. Now she's into ladies. Haha!
- People who've been complainin about bad writing......are firefly fans! Thats like taking the piss outta someone's diet while munching down on a Mcdonalds. ;D
- At the start I feared this was going to be a multiple mystery box show (like BSG or Lost) but by the end of had tied pretty much everything up quite neatly.I
- Season 2 needs Worf.
In terms of comparison to Discovery I think I'd go Disco S2 > Picard > Disco S1.
Michael Chabon Answers Fan Questions About ‘Star Trek: Picard’ Finale Loose Ends, Season 2,and More (https://trekmovie.com/2020/03/28/michael-chabon-answers-fan-questions-about-star-trek-picard-finale-loose-ends-season-two-and-more/)
Michael Chabon Answers Fan Questions About ‘Star Trek: Picard’ Finale Loose Ends, Season 2,and More (https://trekmovie.com/2020/03/28/michael-chabon-answers-fan-questions-about-star-trek-picard-finale-loose-ends-season-two-and-more/)
I had such little respect for him based solely on his writing, but after that? Pure hack. No respect at all anymore. His continued involvement astonishes me.
Michael Chabon Answers Fan Questions About ‘Star Trek: Picard’ Finale Loose Ends, Season 2,and More (https://trekmovie.com/2020/03/28/michael-chabon-answers-fan-questions-about-star-trek-picard-finale-loose-ends-season-two-and-more/)
Michael Chabon Answers Fan Questions About ‘Star Trek: Picard’ Finale Loose Ends, Season 2,and More (https://trekmovie.com/2020/03/28/michael-chabon-answers-fan-questions-about-star-trek-picard-finale-loose-ends-season-two-and-more/)
Not sure why but I've always thought he was Tempus Vox.
Never mind.
So, I didn't finish Into Darkness, couldn't stomach past the first 20 minutes or so.That's come up several times, though, including twice in the late sixties. Mudd's androids were already doing that, as was Nurse Chappel's old man (and we all appreciate what he did). And at least one person stuck his marbles in Data's noggin.
However, a lot of reviews said an issue they had was that, by the end, they had essentially discovered the cure for death in some super blood or something.
Didn't Picard also just discover the cure for all death? I mean, if you can so easily just download everyone's consciousness into a new perfect body............you've eliminated death. That is a pretty big sign of lazy writing because I guaran-god damn-tee that the obvious implications and ramifications will never be examined beyond.....MAYBE...how Picard feels about it himself.
So, I didn't finish Into Darkness, couldn't stomach past the first 20 minutes or so.That's come up several times, though, including twice in the late sixties. Mudd's androids were already doing that, as was Nurse Chappel's old man (and we all appreciate what he did). And at least one person stuck his marbles in Data's noggin.
However, a lot of reviews said an issue they had was that, by the end, they had essentially discovered the cure for death in some super blood or something.
Didn't Picard also just discover the cure for all death? I mean, if you can so easily just download everyone's consciousness into a new perfect body............you've eliminated death. That is a pretty big sign of lazy writing because I guaran-god damn-tee that the obvious implications and ramifications will never be examined beyond.....MAYBE...how Picard feels about it himself.
That really sucks. Especially since it served literally no purpose what so ever and was as cheap as anything.Summed up the whole show, especially Picard's entire role in it.
Didn't Picard also just discover the cure for all death? I mean, if you can so easily just download everyone's consciousness into a new perfect body............you've eliminated death. That is a pretty big sign of lazy writing because I guaran-god damn-tee that the obvious implications and ramifications will never be examined beyond.....MAYBE...how Picard feels about it himself.
Canon or not Soong's wife was a one-episode character. Picard is the franchise of this show, and *the* lead character of 7 seasons + 4 movies. Slightly different impact of this happening to him vs Soong's wife.
First, yes I remember that episode off the quick description. And it falls under what I said before, it was always the case of the person behind it being dead and the secret dying with them. So that IS in fact quite different. Soong did that to his wife, and as far as I know it was actually presented that she was NOT the actual wife, but a recreation of her after the fact and they just let her believe she was real out of sympathy. Also, again, the secret behind the science was to have been lost with Soong.
To your first point, from a story telling perspective, it's in line with what I've said. You didn't address this, but she was presented as a recreation of Soong's wife, not his actual wife in an immortal body.
And the transporters can't fix death. You can't teleport a dying person somewhere and end up with a living person with perfect health and immortality. I think the most they demonstrated was being able to filter out certain pathogens or something, but that was it. So no, it's not the same.
The fact they continually referred to events of Nemesis, suggests it is a direct continuation of THAT ST universe.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EUYB8TgUYAAL6GZ?format=jpg&name=large)
Just thought this was really nice.
Still disagree about the transporters being used to cause immortality. But whatever, it's really not a big deal at all.If I'm not mistaken Picard is being produced under the Bad Robot license terms, which means that it's necessarily different from the original ST universe by some arbitrarily defined percentage. Moreover, the producers have always been clear that Star Trek exists in an infinite number of universes. Granted, they're doing an awful lot to connect it to the original universe, PS is executive producer which might have something to do with it, but it's not the same universe as TNG-ENT. I posted a video about all of this a couple of weeks ago.
Also, Bart, that's not the first time you've said that about Picard. While I agree that the Picard of 2020 has little in common with the Picard of 87-200whatever, have the creators stated that this is in a different universe? As far as I know, they keep hammering in that this is a direct sequel to the TNG movies/universe etc. While it CLEARLY doesn't feel like that at all, I just attribute that to the awful writers, and not it being in a different universe.
It does improve greatly, and the second season is outstanding, but I also concede that we have different standards for what comprises 'outstanding' in the Trek world.
It does improve greatly, and the second season is outstanding, but I also concede that we have different standards for what comprises 'outstanding' in the Trek world.
Well I’m gonna watch all of it either way. And I’ll be as open minded as I can.
Honestly I’m least excited for TOS. Some genius episodes. But so many episodes that are painful to get through for a variety of reasons.
On that note, I really wish the animated series got more attention. The writing had to be more compact to fit in a half hour "kids" show...but it's the same writers that were used in ToS. And in many ways, they didn't have the restrictions they had in ToS because special effects weren't as much of an issue. If you needed a freaky alien or a lush background, you could just draw it instead of doing makeup and having a set built.
Not sure if many people realize that, while it was not considered "canon" for years...the legal rights were secured just a few years ago, and it is now considered the de facto "Season 4" of ToS. So it is now canon. And the writing is surprisingly adult considering it was supposed to be a Saturday morning kids show. I don't think it gets enough love. If you haven't seen it, watch it.
On that note, I really wish the animated series got more attention. The writing had to be more compact to fit in a half hour "kids" show...but it's the same writers that were used in ToS. And in many ways, they didn't have the restrictions they had in ToS because special effects weren't as much of an issue. If you needed a freaky alien or a lush background, you could just draw it instead of doing makeup and having a set built.
Not sure if many people realize that, while it was not considered "canon" for years...the legal rights were secured just a few years ago, and it is now considered the de facto "Season 4" of ToS. So it is now canon. And the writing is surprisingly adult considering it was supposed to be a Saturday morning kids show. I don't think it gets enough love. If you haven't seen it, watch it.
I'm gonna be completely honest with you, the only reason I don't watch TAS is because I can't stand the animation style. I know that's shallow and I'm missing out on great stories, and maybe I'll watch it one day, but I generally just skip it.
I remember when the animated series was on, and my friends and I scoffed at the idea. I mean, we were just idiot kids, but Star Trek was a "real" show, and the idea of reducing it to a Saturday-morning cartoon seemed quite an insult to the show, and by extension, to its fans.
But I caught a couple of episodes, and was quite surprised by how sophisticated the stories were, and was particularly impressed by the voice actors, how much they sounded like the original cast. I didn't realize at the time that most of the original cast actually did the voice work. Yeah, the animation is bad, but for a cartoon show in 1973 or whatever it was, that wasn't an issue.
And Doohan voiced pretty much every other character.I remember when the animated series was on, and my friends and I scoffed at the idea. I mean, we were just idiot kids, but Star Trek was a "real" show, and the idea of reducing it to a Saturday-morning cartoon seemed quite an insult to the show, and by extension, to its fans.
But I caught a couple of episodes, and was quite surprised by how sophisticated the stories were, and was particularly impressed by the voice actors, how much they sounded like the original cast. I didn't realize at the time that most of the original cast actually did the voice work. Yeah, the animation is bad, but for a cartoon show in 1973 or whatever it was, that wasn't an issue.
Actually, they were originally only going to get Shatner, Nimoy, and Kelly. But Nimoy cried foul and pointed out that they were cutting the diversity out of the show by not using Nicholls, Takei, and Koenig. So Nimoy went to bat and got Nicholls and Takei hired on...but they still couldn't afford Koenig. But they made that up to him by buying and using one of his written scripts for the show. "The Infinite Vulcan"
Yes. The theme song is awful. Awful.
Yes. Some of the secondary characters were bland, like whatever the black kid's name is.
Yes. The first two seasons are a bit boring.
Yes. The last season is mostly fan fic.
Many of the characters are pretty damn good. Hoshi is a bit meh at times, but she has great moments. I maintain that Phlox, Trip, T'Pol, and Archer are great characters and Reed even has some good moments.
The boring episodes aren't so bad. They can be, but they have some really amazing episodes those first two seasons.
The third season is like 90% amazing. A handful of dumb filler episodes that can be erased, but that happens with any 22 or whatever episode season. But season 3 did what a lot of Picard tried to do and actually succeeded at it as far as the moral ambiguity goes.
And yes, while season 4 is largely (though not entirely) fan fic style of TOS, it's really well done. I'm enjoying the hell out of it.
Enterprise literally has zero standout characters! They are all like a bland soup of people..
Voyager has Seven and The Doctor (and Tuvok IMO), Discovery has Saru and Picard has Raffi.
I Still maintain that Enterprise is still EASILY the worst spinoff show Star Trek has ever had.
Season 3 was gitting on all cylinders. When UPN halfway through the 4th season started to bump the show on different nights it killed it.
The one with Khan Noonian Soong didn't work for me. I didn't like Spiner, and while the augments could have been good characters, there was just too much going on. It tried to be too much at once, which was often a problem with season 4. The one with the Andorians was pretty good. Didn't care for the one with Peter Weller, though I always like him. The thing with the Organians didn't work, but was a good idea. IaMD was hit and miss. I honestly don't remember the one with the Klingons. So overall S4 was pretty marginal, I thought.Season 3 was gitting on all cylinders. When UPN halfway through the 4th season started to bump the show on different nights it killed it.
Dunno. But with a few exceptions I think season 4 was great. First two episodes were meh. The Orion one was meh but a lot of the rest really pretty damn good. Of course it seems a lot of people had no attachment to the crew, which may have been an issue. I loved them. But I can see why the show would be meh if you don’t care much for the crew.
Been way to soft on Enterprise, didn't really want to piss it's fans off......but I'm in a bad mood and need to rant at something!!
Enterprise killed the ST revival. So many bad decisions in it's creation - first and foremost making Braga the Showrunner, a hack who'd used up his few good idea's years ago and was now riffing of the same boring storylines over and over.
Let's list other mistakes.
- That theme song. Probably the one thing people remember about the show - it's terrible.
- T'Pol. Hey guys - remember when Voyager was on the verge of the axe then we added a sexy woman and the show survived? Let's start with a sexy woman this time...............Ok but you struck lucky with Jeri Ryan, yes she loooked great - but she could act, infact she was bloody great as 7, elevating the material. So Enterprise gives us T'Pol and promises us the sexiest Star Trek ever (Way to misjudge your fans...) Jolene Blalock is wooden, actually somehow (given the shite scripts) manages to make everything worse. But Sideboobs and sexy massages.....go fuck yourself Braga.
- The show trying to be a little more like original Star Trek with three main characters and a bunch of lesser ones (and ohboy were they lesser). But original Trek had Kirk, Spock and Bones....Enterprise had Archer, Tucker and T'Pol - need I say anymore.......and once those 3 failed to carry the show they tried turn it into a more ensemble cast, but no one cared about the other characters by then.
- Archer - "oh boy." Scott is a decent actor in the right role. A hangdog everyman - but as a Starship captain. No. Stick him in engine room as a put upon chief engineering and that'd be fine.
- When it was on the verge of axing at the end of season 2 because it was shite and most of the fans hated it. Panic! Fans love DS9 - let's rip them off and do an all out war series. So we get Xindi war - which isn't ever close to being as good as the Dominion war and has a crap ending, because Enterprise writers aren't as good. But at least it's watchable.
- Season 4 got a new showrunner in Manny Coto. After Enterprise he joined Dexter in 2010 (From Season 5 onwards, when it went downhill).....So this dude has been involved in two of the worst last episodes ever written in Enterprise and Dexter. He co-wrote the final episode of Dexter, let that sink in.
- But of course the final episode of Enterprise was of course written by Braga and Berman. Completely tone deaf to what the fans wanted, it seems approriate these hacks put the final nail in the ST coffin for years. Braga would go in the do Threshold, Tera Nova & Flashforward - all axed after one season. Yet the guy still gets work.
Don't worry I completely accept Disco season one is a mess. Those first 2 (maybe 3?) Episodes were written by Brian Fuller - who it appeared had a really odd plan with what he wanted to do with the show. Then he left - most of season 1 is course correction. Although it still does some weird stuff, and this show will always by hampered by Burnham who is dull and those boring klingons.
Don't worry I completely accept Disco season one is a mess. Those first 2 (maybe 3?) Episodes were written by Brian Fuller - who it appeared had a really odd plan with what he wanted to do with the show. Then he left - most of season 1 is course correction. Although it still does some weird stuff, and this show will always by hampered by Burnham who is dull and those boring klingons.
I looked it up, looks like Bryan was one of like 4 writers. Why are you placing the blame on him when the other writers have set that direction for Disco and Picard?
Ah. I gotcha.
So I didn't do research, but did anyone ever explain why the Klingons are essentially a different species?
Ah. I gotcha.
So I didn't do research, but did anyone ever explain why the Klingons are essentially a different species?
(https://i.imgur.com/RXFEucL.gif)
I think I read that they just wanted to make Klingons more scary and alien, generally. (They do get more hair in Season 2.) I generally approved of what they did with the Klingons in Discovery, tho. They've often come across as very one-dimensional in the past but they are quite varied and intimidating in ST:D. The scenes are often too long and a bit dull but it was good to see them as a brutal-looking threat with some unstable zeal.
(That DS9 Trouble With Tribbles episode is a contender for best Trek episode ever, in my book)
4 episodes or so into Discovery.
Do these writers just hate Star Trek? Good lord. Everyone is such a dick. Everything is dark and ultra gritty. The spore drive is just plain dumb.
4 episodes or so into Discovery.
Do these writers just hate Star Trek? Good lord. Everyone is such a dick. Everything is dark and ultra gritty. The spore drive is just plain dumb.
Fullers 'dark and gritty' influence. You'll see them try and reverse this as the season progresses. Same with the Klingon stuff. The show definatly suffers the weak first season syndrome that's plagued all the spin off shows, it's not TNG levels of badness but it doesn't really find it's grove till a couple of mid season episodes (sadly the last couple of episodes are weak also). There are also say to many twists in season one too, a lot are probabky the writers trying to course correct.
4 episodes or so into Discovery.
Do these writers just hate Star Trek? Good lord. Everyone is such a dick. Everything is dark and ultra gritty. The spore drive is just plain dumb.
Fullers 'dark and gritty' influence. You'll see them try and reverse this as the season progresses. Same with the Klingon stuff. The show definatly suffers the weak first season syndrome that's plagued all the spin off shows, it's not TNG levels of badness but it doesn't really find it's grove till a couple of mid season episodes (sadly the last couple of episodes are weak also). There are also say to many twists in season one too, a lot are probabky the writers trying to course correct.
I think it depends on type of badness. I don't see this badness as "better" than TNG's badness. They're just very different ways of being bad. I gotta say, this is hard to get through. I'll still do it, but I literally don't like any character minus Doug Jones and they're even trying to make him unlikable.
And maybe it is Fuller's fault, but Picard was just as guilty of all of this stuff.
Like I said, different kinds of bad. Context changes a few things. Bad from the late 80's of a show establishing a voice is different than bad from the mid-late 2010's with a show that has 40+years of a philosophy established and then very quickly pissing all over it.
Relative newcomer:
So outside of the JJ Abraham films and the first season of Discovery I had never seen any Star Trek. I know those aren't really representative for Star Trek and a lot of fans seem to dislike them, but from a newcomer's perspective I really enjoyed the 2009 film and Beyond quite a bit (into darkness dissapointed me though). I was entertained by Discovery when it launched on Netflix, I did not have any major issues with it but don't recall a lot from it either, I have not seen season 2.
That being said, because I like Patrick Stewart and the concept of Star Trek, I decided to give TNG a go. I will be honest, at first (like ten episodes in) I thought it was pretty damn bad, sometimes downright awful, and I watch plenty of old "dated"stuff so it isn't just the age. Still, it was oddly entertaining and the internet taught me it will become a lot better. One of the best scifi/superhero seasons ever to me was in Agents of Shield (s4) and the first season of that was really bad (though nowhere near that early TNG episode with the black tribal people, good lord). Sometimes these shows need time to find footing. Turns out that was indeed the case and with some googling I watched a couple of "essential" episodes in s1 and s2 and then watched season 3. I really enjoyed season 3 (and the start of s4 which I also watched). I think it has a great cast of characters and some of the subject matters are interesting/handled really well. I will definitely continue watching it.
From this comes a question. I think the original series may not be for me. But am interested in the films. Are they accessible without having seen the original series? Furthermore, I am also interested in the films of TNG (after I finished the series). Are they worth it? They are not on any streaming services over here so I have to buy them, so that is why I ask.
When Star Trek even though DS9 was being done, it was a niche show that had almost no mainstream appeal.
When Star Trek even though DS9 was being done, it was a niche show that had almost no mainstream appeal.
I think you are underestimating how much of an event the launch of TNG was back in 87. The original series had been regaining popularity throughout the 80s from constant repeats and the run of successful movies (TNG debuted shortly after The Voyage Home had been a box office smash). To say it was niche and not mainstream is naive when you look at the figures, and not just in the US.
Agree about Burnham though, she maybe gets slightly better in Season 2 - but still meh.
I remember the debut of TNG quite well, and while it was a big deal, it was very much not mainstream. It was a big deal because nightly news programs were telling people about the return of Star Trek twenty years after it was cancelled. Everybody knew about it. A whole lot talked about it. Plenty watched the premier. A relative few liked it and followed it.
As for myself, I was pretty typical. I watched the premier and said "uh, that was, different." I watched the first couple of seasons intermittently. I started watching regularly when it started to get good. I was captivated by the time Best of Both Worlds rolled around. That's pretty much the history of TNG, and relative to, say, Cosby, L.A. Law, Cheers, et al, it was a minor blip on the radar while it was happening.
And why did they do such a massive redesign of the Enterprise at the end? I mean, that ship was in TOS, TNG, Enterprise, and DS9 (to varying degrees) and they always tried to respect the original design as much as possible. But this design was just straight out of the JJ Abrams movies.
I think Discovery did a good job with redesigning the original Enterprise. It is faithful to the original 60's model while being updated tastefully. I especially like the interior, and that is going to get shown more in season 2.I just checked out the STD Enterprise bridge on YT, and I agree. Very nicely done. Quite faithful to the original and still halfway modern looking.
I think this redesign is far better than the variant in JJ's movies.
I think Discovery did a good job with redesigning the original Enterprise. It is faithful to the original 60's model while being updated tastefully. I especially like the interior, and that is going to get shown more in season 2.I just checked out the STD Enterprise bridge on YT, and I agree. Very nicely done. Quite faithful to the original and still halfway modern looking.
I think this redesign is far better than the variant in JJ's movies.
Remember that this is Sarek ten years previous and he's got a bunch of stuff going on, that you'll get to in season 2.
I have no idea what the context here is, but it seems to me that Vulcans, and Sarek in particular, have always been pragmatic bastards perfectly capable of violence. What was it Spock said, "my father is perfectly capable of killing, both efficiently and logically?" One of my favorite scenes from ENT was when a Vulcan ship came to the rescue just in a nick of time, and the captain says, in the most understated voice imaginable, "tell them to surrender their weapons or we'll destroy their ship." There's no question that they'd do it without reservation as, after all, Vulcans never bluff. If they were the police they'd announce "come out with your hands up or we'll blow up your house in 5-4-3. . ." Like I said, I don't know what the logic was, but I can see Sarek using logic to justify preemptive killing or even genocide.Remember that this is Sarek ten years previous and he's got a bunch of stuff going on, that you'll get to in season 2.
I think it just hits closer to home for me cause I really really loved Mark Lenard as Sarek and consider him essentially the perfect Vulcan. So I'm likely to dislike many other people's takes on him. But he's also just written....yea I dunno. Telling Michael that it's perfectly logical to hate all Klingons because of what happened to her or that it's only logical to commit genocide. I feel like Vulcan logic used to be more ideal and the way it's been portrayed for the last however many years is closer to just how humans feel in general. So I'll likely not be happy with it but I can tolerate it. The actor isn't bad at all. I just don't like how they wrote him. Especially when he was in his coma and they decided the only way for him to interact was through matrix fighting with Michael? It's just the writing is so not Vulcan. Even if it's 10 years earlier.
I have no idea what the context here is, but it seems to me that Vulcans, and Sarek in particular, have always been pragmatic bastards perfectly capable of violence. What was it Spock said, "my father is perfectly capable of killing, both efficiently and logically?" One of my favorite scenes from ENT was when a Vulcan ship came to the rescue just in a nick of time, and the captain says, in the most understated voice imaginable, "tell them to surrender their weapons or we'll destroy their ship." There's no question that they'd do it without reservation as, after all, Vulcans never bluff. If they were the police they'd announce "come out with your hands up or we'll blow up your house in 5-4-3. . ." Like I said, I don't know what the logic was, but I can see Sarek using logic to justify preemptive killing or even genocide.Remember that this is Sarek ten years previous and he's got a bunch of stuff going on, that you'll get to in season 2.
I think it just hits closer to home for me cause I really really loved Mark Lenard as Sarek and consider him essentially the perfect Vulcan. So I'm likely to dislike many other people's takes on him. But he's also just written....yea I dunno. Telling Michael that it's perfectly logical to hate all Klingons because of what happened to her or that it's only logical to commit genocide. I feel like Vulcan logic used to be more ideal and the way it's been portrayed for the last however many years is closer to just how humans feel in general. So I'll likely not be happy with it but I can tolerate it. The actor isn't bad at all. I just don't like how they wrote him. Especially when he was in his coma and they decided the only way for him to interact was through matrix fighting with Michael? It's just the writing is so not Vulcan. Even if it's 10 years earlier.
Yeah, I'll buy that. Though wasn't it a human he was speaking to? I'd agree with his logic there, but only as a prelude to why you shouldn't do it anyway.I have no idea what the context here is, but it seems to me that Vulcans, and Sarek in particular, have always been pragmatic bastards perfectly capable of violence. What was it Spock said, "my father is perfectly capable of killing, both efficiently and logically?" One of my favorite scenes from ENT was when a Vulcan ship came to the rescue just in a nick of time, and the captain says, in the most understated voice imaginable, "tell them to surrender their weapons or we'll destroy their ship." There's no question that they'd do it without reservation as, after all, Vulcans never bluff. If they were the police they'd announce "come out with your hands up or we'll blow up your house in 5-4-3. . ." Like I said, I don't know what the logic was, but I can see Sarek using logic to justify preemptive killing or even genocide.Remember that this is Sarek ten years previous and he's got a bunch of stuff going on, that you'll get to in season 2.
I think it just hits closer to home for me cause I really really loved Mark Lenard as Sarek and consider him essentially the perfect Vulcan. So I'm likely to dislike many other people's takes on him. But he's also just written....yea I dunno. Telling Michael that it's perfectly logical to hate all Klingons because of what happened to her or that it's only logical to commit genocide. I feel like Vulcan logic used to be more ideal and the way it's been portrayed for the last however many years is closer to just how humans feel in general. So I'll likely not be happy with it but I can tolerate it. The actor isn't bad at all. I just don't like how they wrote him. Especially when he was in his coma and they decided the only way for him to interact was through matrix fighting with Michael? It's just the writing is so not Vulcan. Even if it's 10 years earlier.
I think there's a line. I didn't buy Sarek not only advocating for genocide but also letting the emporer from the mirror universe take command of the Discovery and then lie about the whole thing to the crew. It was just way too much.
Also his logic seemed so human most of the time. It's only logical to want to kill all the Klingons, after all, they killed your parents. No. That's not Vulcan logic, that's human logic.
Sarek especially seemed not driven 100% by cold logic but also by a wisdom. Sure you could calculate when genocide is the most favorable outcome, but I feel like a greater wisdom would overrule that.I never really got that from Sarek. It was Spock that seemed to have the virtue of wisdom. Even towards the end Sarek always came across as a pragmatic hardass, motivated entirely by logic.
He was talking to a human raised largely on Vulcan by Sarek and Amanda. So basically a Vulcan.
And you might be right about Sarek. When I rewatch TOS and the movies, maybe I’ll reevaluate Sarek. I’m just going off memory which might be off.
I don’t care about screen time. I only care if a Sarek found slick!
Though I still don't understand why they've essentially tried their hardest to totally shun the Star Trek aesthetic and go as generic sci-fi as possible. It's all very pretty, don't get me wrong, but it just lacks that unique Star Trek flavor. Between this and Picard, the aesthetic (and only that) is much more akin to Firefly, Star Wars or Guardians of the Galaxy. Those are all great aesthetics, but I just want Star Trek to look like Star Trek. If you want to change it, update it, cool, but do so in the same spirit, which they aren't.
So, I gotta say. I think I'm through episode 5 of 6 of season 2 and I'm digging it!
It's not brilliant, but it's so much better and rather enjoyable. It really needs to slow the hell down, but for a modern take, it's not bad.
Looking forward to the second half of the season!
So, I gotta say. I think I'm through episode 5 of 6 of season 2 and I'm digging it!
It's not brilliant, but it's so much better and rather enjoyable. It really needs to slow the hell down, but for a modern take, it's not bad.
Looking forward to the second half of the season!
Good to hear!!
I'm willing to bet you'll have the Red Angel reveal though!
God damn I am loving Pike.
I obviously have no real opinions on him from ToS, given his limited role, and as much as I like Bruce Greenwood, I am liking this version of Pike the best.
I'm starting the last season of Voyager and I'm really not looking forward to finishing it as I've really grown to like it overall. It's a shame that most of the characters are.. just there, but they still add to the overall feel of the show. I was surprised to see The Rock in one of the episodes :lolI'm about halfway through S6, and I'm kind of in the same boat about not wanting to suffer through the end. Overall I think it's a very good show, but it really started to tank near the end, much like TNG. There's a weird problem that they have. Seven was an excellent character, and exactly what they needed. At the same time her arrival changed the dynamic so the style of the shows changed, as well. Beltran and Wang have both been pretty outspoken about how bad the final seasons were, and in retrospect they're exactly right. It's become more about the characters than the situations they find themselves in, which are invariably just plot contrivances. It almost feels more like a sitcom, or some awful family show than science fiction. There are still some good episodes, but a lot are just awful. When TNG or DS9 did set pieces it could work because the characters are well-defined and stay mostly within their roles, or required to act outside of them. I just watched Virtuoso and it's like they forgot who the Dr. and Janeway were. They certainly weren't the same two people from the previous hundred or so episodes.
Totally.But even when they got all nice and cozy with each other they were producing good episodes. There seems to be a marked change at the end of 5/beginning of 6 where the writing just fell apart, and stories were being cranked out with no real understanding of the characters involved. They just stopped being grounded. I just wrapped up the conspiracy theory episode. Where Chakote and Janeway arm themselves and accuse each other of being enemy agents because of a 3 minute power point presentation by 7/9. Who are these people and what are they doing on a starship? It's like the writer had never heard of these people before.
It was a bit surprising, as it began with the idea of conflicting marquis and Starfleet crew on the same ship but that went away quite early on and everyone became really quite comfy and reasonable all the time. Which is nice but not very dramatic.
Next Generation:
Season 1: Gene Roddenberry
Season 2: Roddenberry, Maurice Hurley
Seasons 3-4: Roddenberry, Rick Berman, Michael Piller
Seasons 5-6: Berman, Piller
Season 7: Berman, Piller, Jeri Taylor
It's worth noting that Roddenberry's direct control was curtailed significantly after the first season due to his declining health and pressure from the studio. Also, while Piller was still given a credit as executive producer and showrunner on season 7, his input was relatively limited as he was mostly focusing on DS9 at the time, hence why Jeri Taylor became an executive producer and showrunner for season 7.
DS9:Missing in that is Behr's writing partner Robert Wolf Hewitt, who deserves just as much credit for creating the dominion. Behr had come up with the concept of a Dominion that was spooky and controlling the Gamma quadrant. My understanding is that "Wofie" went home for the weekend and came back with an outline for the whole Founder/Vorta/Jem H'dar structure, thus creating the Dominion as we know it. If you look at his writing credits, RWH was their Babe Ruth for writing.
Seasons 1-3: Berman, Piller
Seasons 4-7: Berman, Ira Steven Behr
From what I've read or heard in interviews, it seems that Berman overall had very little direct input into DS9 after the first season as he preferred to focus on TNG and Voyager. Also it appears that while Behr was only a writer and episode producer for the first 3 seasons, his role in shaping the overarching story was immense (the creation of the Dominion and subsequent plotlines were largely his doing), and even before Piller left after season 3, Behr was already being groomed as his replacement as showrunner so that Piller could focus more on Voyager. This is probably why I found DS9 to be the most consistent of all the shows in terms of quality, given that so much of it was the product of one guy's creative vision.
Voyager:Yeah, it's certainly worth noting that Braga was banging/married to Jeri Ryan for all of that. It's no surprise that the writing took a decidedly different turn towards the end when Seven showed up in the cast.
Seasons 1-2: Berman, Piller
Seasons 3-4: Berman, Piller, Taylor
Seasons 5-6: Berman, Brannon Braga
Season 7: Berman, Kennith Biller
It's a damn shame that Piller left Trek after season 4 of Voyager as it appeared that the show was just starting to find it's legs with the introduction of Seven of Nine. While most of the episodes that were focused on her and the Borg were pretty consistently good for the remainder of the series, it seems that after Piller left all the other characters just kind of fell by the wayside, perhaps because Berman, Braga and Biller didn't really know what to do with them (other then the Doctor, who is the other highlight of the show). The writing of Janeway fluctuates wildly from one episode to the next (was she by the book like Picard, or more of a risk-taker like Kirk?) while everyone else is just relegated to their niche and forgotten, only to be trotted out for the sake of plot necessity or variety of character focus. Which is a damn shame, as the show is pretty well cast and Kate Mulgrew is an immensely talented actress.
Hey guys, long time no see!:tup
Next Generation:
Season 1: Gene Roddenberry
Season 2: Roddenberry, Maurice Hurley
Seasons 3-4: Roddenberry, Rick Berman, Michael Piller
Seasons 5-6: Berman, Piller
Season 7: Berman, Piller, Jeri Taylor
It's worth noting that Roddenberry's direct control was curtailed significantly after the first season due to his declining health and pressure from the studio. Also, while Piller was still given a credit as executive producer and showrunner on season 7, his input was relatively limited as he was mostly focusing on DS9 at the time, hence why Jeri Taylor became an executive producer and showrunner for season 7.
If you haven't seen it, you might check out Chaos on the Bridge, which is Shatner's documentary about the first few seasons. Rodenberry was largely gone during S2. Hurley really didn't like the show at all. If I'm not mistaken he was a Hill Street Blues writer, and thought ST was just stupid. And Roddenberry's lawyer, apparently the world's biggest asshole, was meddling in the writing the whole time. The first couple of seasons were a real mess. It wasn't until Roddenberry was completely gone and his lawyer had been banned from the studio that Piller and Berman got things on track.
QuoteDS9:Missing in that is Behr's writing partner Robert Wolf Hewitt, who deserves just as much credit for creating the dominion. Behr had come up with the concept of a Dominion that was spooky and controlling the Gamma quadrant. My understanding is that "Wofie" went home for the weekend and came back with an outline for the whole Founder/Vorta/Jem H'dar structure, thus creating the Dominion as we know it. If you look at his writing credits, RWH was their Babe Ruth for writing.
Seasons 1-3: Berman, Piller
Seasons 4-7: Berman, Ira Steven Behr
From what I've read or heard in interviews, it seems that Berman overall had very little direct input into DS9 after the first season as he preferred to focus on TNG and Voyager. Also it appears that while Behr was only a writer and episode producer for the first 3 seasons, his role in shaping the overarching story was immense (the creation of the Dominion and subsequent plotlines were largely his doing), and even before Piller left after season 3, Behr was already being groomed as his replacement as showrunner so that Piller could focus more on Voyager. This is probably why I found DS9 to be the most consistent of all the shows in terms of quality, given that so much of it was the product of one guy's creative vision.
Yeah... there was that too. Jeri Ryan is a great actress and easy on the eyes, and Seven's character arc basically wrote itself, so I won't complain about the amount of screentime she got. It's just disappointing that all the other characters, with the exceptions of Janeway and the Doctor were relegated to very limited character niches, but then again, I wonder how much of it was just Trek running out of ideas. For example, Chakotay's whole "ex-terrorist first officer" shtick had already been done with Kira, and with much more depth, so how much more could they explore that concept over the course of yet another 7 season show?QuoteVoyager:Yeah, it's certainly worth noting that Braga was banging/married to Jeri Ryan for all of that. It's no surprise that the writing took a decidedly different turn towards the end when Seven showed up in the cast.
Seasons 1-2: Berman, Piller
Seasons 3-4: Berman, Piller, Taylor
Seasons 5-6: Berman, Brannon Braga
Season 7: Berman, Kennith Biller
It's a damn shame that Piller left Trek after season 4 of Voyager as it appeared that the show was just starting to find it's legs with the introduction of Seven of Nine. While most of the episodes that were focused on her and the Borg were pretty consistently good for the remainder of the series, it seems that after Piller left all the other characters just kind of fell by the wayside, perhaps because Berman, Braga and Biller didn't really know what to do with them (other then the Doctor, who is the other highlight of the show). The writing of Janeway fluctuates wildly from one episode to the next (was she by the book like Picard, or more of a risk-taker like Kirk?) while everyone else is just relegated to their niche and forgotten, only to be trotted out for the sake of plot necessity or variety of character focus. Which is a damn shame, as the show is pretty well cast and Kate Mulgrew is an immensely talented actress.
:tupQuoteHey guys, long time no see!:tup
Any season 2 update Adami?
Old school Star Trek query for you. In The Enemy Within, their transporter is broken and they can't beam up the away party. Why couldn't they take one of the little vessels and take that instead? Are we supposed to believe they weren't around until the movies started happening?
A shuttle had been suggested initially during the production of "The Enemy Within", but was ultimately rejected due to the cost.[1] It was raised again in Oliver Crawford's pitch for "The Galileo Seven". Series creator Gene Roddenberry attempted to persuade executives at Desilu Productions that the prop was needed for both this episode and his plan for "The Menagerie", but they rejected this again because of the budget. This delayed production on "The Galileo Seven" for more than two months.
I just read that the Captain Pike series is well under way and will be called Star Trek: Strange New Worlds. ;D
(And that the Section 31 series has been put on hold, which is also good news, AFAIC)
Classic Star Trek show about future and optimism.. from the same people that gave us Picard and Discovery? I am hopeful but.. at the same time I don't believe it.
So.. I just finished Voyager. That ending is so bad it's hilarious. Worse than Enterprise's. Did they suddenly cancel the show and they had to finish the arc fast or what? There's no buildup, there's no resolution. Hey, we're back lol - the end.
So.. I just finished Voyager. That ending is so bad it's hilarious. Worse than Enterprise's. Did they suddenly cancel the show and they had to finish the arc fast or what? There's no buildup, there's no resolution. Hey, we're back lol - the end.
Personally I thought Picard was the best first season of Star Trek we have had since TOS. I want Worf in Season 2 though.
Personally I thought Picard was the best first season of Star Trek we have had since TOS. I want Worf in Season 2 though.
Fair enough. :tup
I’d put Picard as the worst first season of any Star Trek. Boom.
Like who? The show barely had Picard as a character. Or do you mean Broody guy Template 1, Attempt at comedy relief template 2, etc? Two things Picard lacked the most - Star Trek and character.Personally I thought Picard was the best first season of Star Trek we have had since TOS. I want Worf in Season 2 though.
Fair enough. :tup
Picard for me was coherient, tonally sound and introduced some decent new characters
So, continuing on my (almost) all encompasing Star Trek rewatch, I'm back to TOS. I've seen most of the episodes once or so, a few twice. Not even sure I've seen the third season. I'm MUCH more familiar with TOS crew from the movies.Try and go into S3 with an open mind. I honestly never thought of it as much different than the first two. There were crappy episodes in all three seasons, and some really good ones in each. There's only a slightly different ratio of crap to good. S3 still has some very good ones, some perfectly average ones, and some stinkers. The only real distinction I've found between the seasons is that the bottom third of S1 was consistently very good. Best string of great episodes they've done.
So after Discovery and Enterprise, I was really worried that I wouldn't be able to get back into TOS because of the extremely low production value, cringy acting, and questionable plots that were there just to save money.
That said? I'm loving it. I obviously recognize a lot of these flaws, but they don't bug me for the most part. I'm just super invested in the characters and what's going on.
Miri was the last episode I saw, and it really wasn't great, but I'm still loving most of it.
I doubt I'll be singing this tune by the time I get to season 3, but we'll see!
So, continuing on my (almost) all encompasing Star Trek rewatch, I'm back to TOS. I've seen most of the episodes once or so, a few twice. Not even sure I've seen the third season. I'm MUCH more familiar with TOS crew from the movies.Try and go into S3 with an open mind. I honestly never thought of it as much different than the first two. There were crappy episodes in all three seasons, and some really good ones in each. There's only a slightly different ratio of crap to good. S3 still has some very good ones, some perfectly average ones, and some stinkers. The only real distinction I've found between the seasons is that the bottom third of S1 was consistently very good. Best string of great episodes they've done.
So after Discovery and Enterprise, I was really worried that I wouldn't be able to get back into TOS because of the extremely low production value, cringy acting, and questionable plots that were there just to save money.
That said? I'm loving it. I obviously recognize a lot of these flaws, but they don't bug me for the most part. I'm just super invested in the characters and what's going on.
Miri was the last episode I saw, and it really wasn't great, but I'm still loving most of it.
I doubt I'll be singing this tune by the time I get to season 3, but we'll see!
Looking at S3 on Wiki there's a picture of the DVD set, and it's a redshirt.
Just been researching the Star Trek films. Last night was Insurrections - only the second time I've watched it all the way through, I forced myself to the end last night. This isnt just the worst Star Trek film (by a mile) it's probably the worst Star Trek fullstop. The plot is dull and it makes no sense and it throw all the good will 'First Contact' created, it's a cesspit of bad choices.
Just been researching the Star Trek films. Last night was Insurrections - only the second time I've watched it all the way through, I forced myself to the end last night. This isnt just the worst Star Trek film (by a mile) it's probably the worst Star Trek fullstop. The plot is dull and it makes no sense and it throw all the good will 'First Contact' created, it's a cesspit of bad choices.
It’s not great but it’s not bad. I’d put Final Frontier, Nemesis, Into
Darkness, and Beyond as worse. I’d tie it with Star Trek 09.
Edit: Maybe id also tie it with Beyond.
Just been researching the Star Trek films. Last night was Insurrections - only the second time I've watched it all the way through, I forced myself to the end last night. This isnt just the worst Star Trek film (by a mile) it's probably the worst Star Trek fullstop. The plot is dull and it makes no sense and it throw all the good will 'First Contact' created, it's a cesspit of bad choices.
It’s not great but it’s not bad. I’d put Final Frontier, Nemesis, Into
Darkness, and Beyond as worse. I’d tie it with Star Trek 09.
Edit: Maybe id also tie it with Beyond.
You are forgetting the 1st movie. That was dull from start to finish.
Quite liked Insurrection. I felt it was fairly quiet, which was nice for a movie. Felt a lot like an episode to me.
Quite liked Insurrection. I felt it was fairly quiet, which was nice for a movie. Felt a lot like an episode to me.
The problem is the good guys 'The Bak'u' are total wankers. There are like 600 of them and they want the entire planet to themselves - and they aren't even indigenous to the planet. They kick the badguys 'The Son'a' of the planet (not sure how as the Bak'u are supposed to be peace loving, renouncing technology hippy dicks) because the Son'a want to embrace the fountain of youth and actually make something of the gift.
The fact the enterprise crew sides with the Bak'u is wrong. And then we have Star Fleet represented by yet another evil admiral (seriously does Star Fleet have more evil old white men in charge than the Trump administration right now?) acting all cloak and dagger (aka not remotely Star Fleet).
Basically all the motivations of all factions are totally wrong. Throw in the cheap looking production (seriously looks like some one changed the camera lens for the bottom of a milk bottle). The fact hardly any of the cast get anything to do (Worf gets a zit, Troi and Crusher talk about their tits...). The action is dull, the story even if the motivations made sense would still be boring. Nothing remotely interesting or memorable happens in the dirge - that's why it's the worst Star Trek for me anyway.
/quote]
I have to agree with some of this. Except maybe the Bak'u stuff. It's been a bit since I've seen it, but I don't remember them kicking the people off the planet as much as them leaving. But I might have it wrong. But yea, you're right that it's a whole damn planet. ST and (and most sci-fi shows) have the same issue of portraying a whole planet as one small town. Hell, the long faced dudes could just move 100 miles away and should be fine. Though I can't agree with you thinking of the Bak'u as villains. I think the federation sided with them because they weren't the ones trying to actually commit genocide.
But you're totally right about Star Fleet. In fact....ironically....that's very similar (though on a smaller scale) to some of my issues with Star Fleet in Picard. It's all horrible and such.
Also agree that the movies tended to focus too much on Picard and Data. Everyone else tended get the shaft in the last two movies, which is a real shame.
That's an interesting analysis. Hadn't thought about it like that before. However, the long faced guys weren't just wanting to use the planet, they were wanting to bottle it up and sell it. If they had wanted to turn one of the continents into the new Ryza then it wouldn't have been an issue. They were wanting to kick the Baku off of it and rip away the atmosphere or some shit. My problem with it was the same as the other TNG films. The movie characters weren't the same as the series characters. Picard's tendencies towards Ramboism. Data is permanently emotional. Troi is perfect starfleet officer, capable of filling every role on a starship. I understand why they did it, it's what modern cinema audiences want, but it's not what I want.Quite liked Insurrection. I felt it was fairly quiet, which was nice for a movie. Felt a lot like an episode to me.
The problem is the good guys 'The Bak'u' are total wankers. There are like 600 of them and they want the entire planet to themselves - and they aren't even indigenous to the planet. They kick the badguys 'The Son'a' of the planet (not sure how as the Bak'u are supposed to be peace loving, renouncing technology hippy dicks) because the Son'a want to embrace the fountain of youth and actually make something of the gift.
The fact the enterprise crew sides with the Bak'u is wrong. And then we have Star Fleet represented by yet another evil admiral (seriously does Star Fleet have more evil old white men in charge than the Trump administration right now?) acting all cloak and dagger (aka not remotely Star Fleet).
Basically all the motivations of all factions are totally wrong. Throw in the cheap looking production (seriously looks like some one changed the camera lens for the bottom of a milk bottle). The fact hardly any of the cast get anything to do (Worf gets a zit, Troi and Crusher talk about their tits...). The action is dull, the story even if the motivations made sense would still be boring. Nothing remotely interesting or memorable happens in the dirge - that's why it's the worst Star Trek for me anyway.
I'll agree about changing the characters too much for the movies. I didn't mind some of them, like emotional Data, but Picard did become too much of an action star. And like I said, the emphasis became WAY too heavy on Picard and Data. Riker was largely lost, Troi was lost, Worf was a joke, Crusher was....was she there? I forget, and Geordi was cool actually.
Luckily, for me at least, I was so invested in the characters by that point that I was able to follow them for the most part.
Definitely. And they were kind of onto something with it being permanently fused into his noggin, something he was stuck with and didn't know how to cope with, but that was an idea for the series and not the remaining few movies. Kind of like Ezri Dax. A wonderful character arc for them to explore, but implemented when there was no time to actually do anything with it. In Data's case it was really just a gimmick.I'll agree about changing the characters too much for the movies. I didn't mind some of them, like emotional Data, but Picard did become too much of an action star. And like I said, the emphasis became WAY too heavy on Picard and Data. Riker was largely lost, Troi was lost, Worf was a joke, Crusher was....was she there? I forget, and Geordi was cool actually.
Luckily, for me at least, I was so invested in the characters by that point that I was able to follow them for the most part.
Problem with Data being emotional was it wasnt a natural evolution during the course of the show, sure he was always curious and tried to become more human - but he never really grew that much. His change just came instantly from a software upgrade, very cheap.
Still enjoying TNG, early season 5 now. I think Picard, Worf and Data are the best characters. The rest of the main cast is good, but I don't like Troi that much to be honest and I am a bit neutral on Geordi.
Also ordered a dvd collection with all the pre-Abrams films, the stardate collection. First dvd set I bought in ages, cost me 20 euro's (blu ray was 65 euros, streaming legally 3 per film with a time limit, so opted DVD).
I always figured Geordie was the epitome of the nerd stereotype. He's the Chief Engineer on the flagship; he is Nerd Extraordinaire. So being more comfortable with the boy genius and the ultimate AI dude, and totally clueless with women, fits right into that.
The character of Troi seemed to come about when they had planning meetings on what the bridge crew of the next generation starship would look like (as in its composition). In the Star Trek universe, the only model they had at the time was TOS. Spock was first officer, but also the Science Officer and had a regular station on the bridge. McCoy obviously was Chief Medical Officer and they literally had to come up with excuses for him to visit the bridge. But the trio of Kirk, Spock, and McCoy were the core of the main cast, and Kirk constantly looked to Spock and McCoy for advice and insight.
On the TNG bridge, there's the three chairs, so the captain has constant access to his first officer for advice, and on the other side... whoever it is that would be basically next-gen McCoy. The Counselor position was created. Someone with empathic abilities, someone experienced and expert in dealing with novel situations and reading them immediately, and advising the captain accordingly. Indispensible during first-contact situations, resolving conflicts, etc. Unfortunately, the writers rarely came up with more than "He's hiding something" or "I sense fear, Captain" or "I advise caution" and the character/position became a joke. But she was pretty and had nice boobs, so it was okay.
That was my take, anyway.
I'll agree on some of it. I liked Season 2 a lot, I just didn't dislike Season 3 as much as you did, despite some of the episodes being pretty meh. I also don't think it was the action that did it for me since I've been pretty outspoken about that not being what I like about ST.It's not that I dislike S3 at all. As I pointed out, there's a lot of good stuff in there. And insofar as bad guys go, the Xindi are a great idea and generally well done. I'm mostly just pushing back on the common perception that S3 was the highlight of the series. I think S2 was better.
I will also agree that Bakula was a great captain that CAN NOT do dark and brooding at all. Dude just seems too naturally nice.
I think the T'Pol and Tucker thing was good actually. I don't have to hold them to identical recreations of Spock/McCoy and let that ruin it, I thought they built their romance pretty well over a long period of time. I also didn't have a problem with her addiction as a concept, though it could've been written better.
And Kotow, the idea of Guinan as the actual counselor on the ship.....was not something that had occurred to me. Not only is it actually true, but it really represented how a lot of people saw therapy. Don't go to a therapist, go to a bar. Sad, but you got a good point.
I'll agree on some of it. I liked Season 2 a lot, I just didn't dislike Season 3 as much as you did, despite some of the episodes being pretty meh. I also don't think it was the action that did it for me since I've been pretty outspoken about that not being what I like about ST.It's not that I dislike S3 at all. As I pointed out, there's a lot of good stuff in there. And insofar as bad guys go, the Xindi are a great idea and generally well done. I'm mostly just pushing back on the common perception that S3 was the highlight of the series. I think S2 was better.
I will also agree that Bakula was a great captain that CAN NOT do dark and brooding at all. Dude just seems too naturally nice.
I think the T'Pol and Tucker thing was good actually. I don't have to hold them to identical recreations of Spock/McCoy and let that ruin it, I thought they built their romance pretty well over a long period of time. I also didn't have a problem with her addiction as a concept, though it could've been written better.
And Kotow, the idea of Guinan as the actual counselor on the ship.....was not something that had occurred to me. Not only is it actually true, but it really represented how a lot of people saw therapy. Don't go to a therapist, go to a bar. Sad, but you got a good point.
As for Tucker/T'Pol, it's not that I'm holding them to be recreations of Spock and McCoy. They clearly had a similar dynamic, though, and it was better when they were mostly adversarial. Honestly, even had they not gotten together, I think they'd changed Tucker's character too much, anyway. He's better at brooding than Bakula, but it was still an unnecessarily dark turn, I think. Maybe it would have worked out on its own, but combined with T'Pol he was just too different, I think.
Agree completely. I like that there was a mistrust and resentment that was gradually assuaged. That applied to Soval, as well. Not too long ago I watched Cease Fire, and Soval's parting words were "Your presence here has not been... overly meddlesome." Enough for Shran to comment "I think he likes you!" The development of the Vulcan/Human relationship was one of the better things about the show.I'll agree on some of it. I liked Season 2 a lot, I just didn't dislike Season 3 as much as you did, despite some of the episodes being pretty meh. I also don't think it was the action that did it for me since I've been pretty outspoken about that not being what I like about ST.It's not that I dislike S3 at all. As I pointed out, there's a lot of good stuff in there. And insofar as bad guys go, the Xindi are a great idea and generally well done. I'm mostly just pushing back on the common perception that S3 was the highlight of the series. I think S2 was better.
I will also agree that Bakula was a great captain that CAN NOT do dark and brooding at all. Dude just seems too naturally nice.
I think the T'Pol and Tucker thing was good actually. I don't have to hold them to identical recreations of Spock/McCoy and let that ruin it, I thought they built their romance pretty well over a long period of time. I also didn't have a problem with her addiction as a concept, though it could've been written better.
And Kotow, the idea of Guinan as the actual counselor on the ship.....was not something that had occurred to me. Not only is it actually true, but it really represented how a lot of people saw therapy. Don't go to a therapist, go to a bar. Sad, but you got a good point.
As for Tucker/T'Pol, it's not that I'm holding them to be recreations of Spock and McCoy. They clearly had a similar dynamic, though, and it was better when they were mostly adversarial. Honestly, even had they not gotten together, I think they'd changed Tucker's character too much, anyway. He's better at brooding than Bakula, but it was still an unnecessarily dark turn, I think. Maybe it would have worked out on its own, but combined with T'Pol he was just too different, I think.
I guess I should've said I don't dislike what you dislike about it as much, and I like more about it. My bad.
I didn't have a problem with what they did with T'Pol or Trip at all. Again, totally agree about Bakula, but I actually really liked the other characters, even if they didn't do a whole lot most of the time.
I think, with T'Pol at least, it was interesting how they set up the Vulcans to be rather different than they were by the time of TOS and how T'Pol was an indication of some of that evolution, as well as a sign of their primitive past as well. Spock was a much more evolved Vulcan, and I see T'Pol and those folk as a middle ground between how they used to be and how they eventually become.
Not a slight on Marina of course as an actress - she was great in Picard... But Troi was the most pointless and useless character in TNG.
If anyone on board Enterprise wanted proper counselling - they always went to Guinan. Who gave actual good advice and never passed out or had a hissy fit at the slightest thing.
-
When I think of Troi episodes I always think of "Where ARE youuuu?" or the music box episode where she's pretty much just whinging the entire time.
Yea, I don't know who this show is for.
You seem to need to be decently familiar with ST to really appreciate it but also be 10 years or younger to enjoy the style/humor. I don't see those two circles overlapping much. It just looked like a little kid's show but in a setting that little kids have no interest in. This just seems terribly thought out.
Star Trek: Strange New Worlds on the other hand I cannot wait for.So I'm out of the loop here. If I understand this, STD S3 is off to the future, and the current crew of STD S2 will be in SNW. That about right? The one thing I've seen is that SNW will be episodic, and with a crew I can actually appreciate, that would certainly be worth watching. It'd be nice to actually see one hour episodes of ST again. Though I have my doubts that with Kurtzman calling the shots it won't suck.
Star Trek: Strange New Worlds on the other hand I cannot wait for.So I'm out of the loop here. If I understand this, STD S3 is off to the future, and the current crew of STD S2 will be in SNW. That about right? The one thing I've seen is that SNW will be episodic, and with a crew I can actually appreciate, that would certainly be worth watching. It'd be nice to actually see one hour episodes of ST again. Though I have my doubts that with Kurtzman calling the shots it won't suck.
That's even better. After your review of STD I kind of wanted to see S2, but can't bear the thought of suffering through the inanity of S1. Seems like I can just wait for this and get exactly what I wanted all along, without all of the silliness.Star Trek: Strange New Worlds on the other hand I cannot wait for.So I'm out of the loop here. If I understand this, STD S3 is off to the future, and the current crew of STD S2 will be in SNW. That about right? The one thing I've seen is that SNW will be episodic, and with a crew I can actually appreciate, that would certainly be worth watching. It'd be nice to actually see one hour episodes of ST again. Though I have my doubts that with Kurtzman calling the shots it won't suck.
Kinda. SNW will be Pike on the Enteprise and his crew. So Pike, Spock, Number 1, etc. I don't think anyone else from STD will be on it.
I mean maybe? They have the right set up to make a fantastic show. Anson was a fantastic Pike. The dude who played Spock...did fine, despite it not really being Spock. Rebecca was a great number 1. The Enterprise looked good. They got a much better tone as well.What I've read is that SNW is supposed to be all standalone episodes. While I'm sure plenty will be "kill the bad guy" types, I'm not sure they can do that for an entire season. And the fact that they're doing this episodically makes me think that maybe they are trying to cater to the oldschool types who want sci-fi and whatnot.
But it's the same show runners who gave us 2/3 awful seasons and 1 good but not great one. So it's really up in there if it's any good. If they still think Star Trek is a bunch of shoot em up action pieces where the season focuses on stopping a bad guy but that it should have lots of humor because fans demand it (and only because fans demand it) it might still be pretty meh.
Controversial :
I think Star Trek Enterprise S3 is the best Season of any Trek show.
I'm quickly coming to the conclusion that S2 of ENT is better than the far more popular S3. S3 has Similitude, which is probably the best thing they ever did, but by and large the good/bad episodes average out about the same. And maybe not even. It certainly had more excitement, which I suppose people appreciate, but it was mostly towards the end, and people often overlook the fact that less than half of the episodes are actually related to the Xindi. Mixed into all of that you've got utter shit like Northstar, Exile, Hatchery, and Extinction. S2 didn't have the highs (Similitude, X2), but it didn't have as many dogs, and was generally more consistent.
The bigger point, though, is that the characters were better in S2. First and foremost, Bakula doesn't do dark and brooding very well, and he damn sure tried to be in every episode. He was better than he got credit for at being an explorer and generally upright ship's captain. He flat out sucked as a vengeful and desperate captain. Plus the whole T'pol and Tucker thing. I'm pretty sure TOS never tried to have Spock fuck McCoy, and it's probably because they new it would be stupid (and creepy). Plus the thing with T'Pol turning into a junky. They radically changed the nature of these characters and in most cases it was a downgrade.
Voyager and Enterprise is mostly just plain lazy writing, barely any better than sodding Star Gate. If you were doing a good ST characters list you'd probably include a couple from Voyager - Doc and 7 (maybe Tuvoc) and maybe Trip from enterprise......that's pretty thin picking - especially when you factor in all the plain bad or terrible ones on those two shows.
Voyager and Enterprise is mostly just plain lazy writing, barely any better than sodding Star Gate. If you were doing a good ST characters list you'd probably include a couple from Voyager - Doc and 7 (maybe Tuvoc) and maybe Trip from enterprise......that's pretty thin picking - especially when you factor in all the plain bad or terrible ones on those two shows.
WOAH WOAH WOAH
Stargate is amazing!
Just got through the first episode of Lower Decks and I liked it, however I like most things :lol. It's a different vibe from the rest of trek but it's a lot of fun if you are a fan of the spastic style of rick and morty.
Now if we want to discuss truly boring sci fi - I nominate Blade Runner.
Now if we want to discuss truly boring sci fi - I nominate Blade Runner.
Insurrections.
Now if we want to discuss truly boring sci fi - I nominate Blade Runner.
Insurrections.
:tup
All Good Things should have been the final TNG movie and Insurrection should have been a 2 part episode.
But I do like some things. It looks good. The CGI isn't half bad. And I like how it ties into TOS, though there are some lore inconsistencies. Like a Klingon D7 battlecruiser a 100 years before they are even introduced in DIS season 2. :lolThe producers often took designs and designations from the old tile game Starfleet Battles. That's definitely where the D7 designation came from, and the D6 and D7 were basically identical from the outside. Different weapons and other systems, but the same hull design. You could make the case that the ship in ENT was a D6, albeit a brand spanking new one, I'd imagine. However, the model they used was actually a K'tinga class cruiser, blowing that theory all to hell. :lol According to Memory Alpha they created a new model to use, presumably a D5, but the producers didn't like it and had them reuse an existing model.
So another ST where the Fed is dead. Hopefully it's half as decent as Andromeda.
So another ST where the Fed is dead. Hopefully it's half as decent as Andromeda.
So another ST where the Fed is dead. Hopefully it's half as decent as Andromeda.
I hope it's a lot better than Andromeda! That show started garbage and somehow got worse the longer it went on.
So another ST where the Fed is dead. Hopefully it's half as decent as Andromeda.
I hope it's a lot better than Andromeda! That show started garbage and somehow got worse the longer it went on.
I’ve never seen it, but if you hate it, it’s probably fantastic. ;D
So another ST where the Fed is dead. Hopefully it's half as decent as Andromeda.
I hope it's a lot better than Andromeda! That show started garbage and somehow got worse the longer it went on.
I’ve never seen it, but if you hate it, it’s probably fantastic. ;D
:biggrin:
How you end up getting on with ToS? I think the last I saw you'd make a start and you were enjoying more than expected.
Anyone watching lower decks? My wife and I saw the first two episodes and we really enjoyed it. But we have not caught up on the most recent ones. However, I did just read an article that said that John DeLancey made an appearance as Q and one of the newer ones and now I feel like I have to catch up.
I caught maybe the first half of the first episode of Lower Decks. Some neat ideas, but meh. I had a lot of tech problems that didn't let me finish the episode, but I just didn't feel like going out of my way to finish it. Maybe I'll try again one day. Other than "HEY MEMBER THAT?!?!" I just didn't see the appeal.
Yes, I member that. Now what?
I’m with Reaper. I absolutely love LD. I think it’s the best of the new ST shows, and the season finale was brilliant.
My wife wants to catch up on Disco, but I was so put off by S1 that I didn’t even bother with 2. I thought Picard was really good, but I’m enjoying LD even more. And by more I mean A LOT more.
I’m with Reaper. I absolutely love LD. I think it’s the best of the new ST shows, and the season finale was brilliant.
My wife wants to catch up on Disco, but I was so put off by S1 that I didn’t even bother with 2. I thought Picard was really good, but I’m enjoying LD even more. And by more I mean A LOT more.
I'm only judging it from the first episode and I have heard it does improve.....but my issue which I admit is probably personal is that I just don't like the idea of crossing between real and animated in a franchise, to me they have their own set of rules. It makes it even worse when the tone is different, Lower Decks is clearly going for more comedy. I hate to go all Adami - but I just can't class this a ST ;D
I'm all for a really chilled out season after the first two seasons - and Picard - had the massive apocalyptic end of the universe story.
They need to scale it back a lot.
I did see it. What's the big bad apocalyptic threat as revealed in S3 E1 ?
I did see it. What's the big bad apocalyptic threat as revealed in S3 E1 ?
You lost me. Besides all dilithium exploding and obliterating everything that resembled civilization leaving only a generic post apocalyptic lawless land? Seems apocalyptic enough to me.
I did see it. What's the big bad apocalyptic threat as revealed in S3 E1 ?
You lost me. Besides all dilithium exploding and obliterating everything that resembled civilization leaving only a generic post apocalyptic lawless land? Seems apocalyptic enough to me.
According to the story it happened 150 years in the past. It's not a current threat to be stopped by E 13.
Do you really want yet another weekly crew on a starship encounters a problem and solve it in 45 minutes show again ?Yes.
It's a fan show - made as closely to TOS as possible. James Doohan's son plays Scotty. Grant imahara (RIP) plays Sulu.
It was billed as the 4th season of TOS and tries to get the look and feel and writing as close as possible to TOS.
It's what all the "True Star Trek Fans ™ " say they want - i.e. TOS again - but they still hate it anyway.
Also - yeah I wan't blown away with Picard and a lot of it i didn't like - but I don't have to watch it. I couldn't give two shits about a Section 31 show.
Here's a clip of Star trek Continues. https://youtu.be/3G-ziTBAkbQ?t=67
It actually wasn't bad at all. It takes some time to "get used to." It's somewhat cheaply made, and there's a ceaseless amount of fan wank, but they did a pretty nice job under the circumstances. The problem I have with this (and other such fan-fics) is the need to constantly bring back older characters (and they're all admirals now). Just because Grace Lee Whitney's niece wants to be in a Star Trek episode doesn't mean you should write an episode starring Admiral Rand. The first episode of STC is the return of Apollo, who basically does the exact same thing he did in WMfA. Nevertheless, the original stuff they did was largely enjoyable. It's a shame they could only crank out 1 or 2 a year.It's a fan show - made as closely to TOS as possible. James Doohan's son plays Scotty. Grant imahara (RIP) plays Sulu.
It was billed as the 4th season of TOS and tries to get the look and feel and writing as close as possible to TOS.
It's what all the "True Star Trek Fans ™ " say they want - i.e. TOS again - but they still hate it anyway.
I haven't seen it, but I assume it's for the same reason "true star trek fans" don't love every single episode of any of the shows either. You still need quality. Fan shows of any sort usually miss the quality mark. Just because it IS something, doesn't mean it's a good something.
Do you really want yet another weekly crew on a starship encounters a problem and solve it in 45 minutes show again ?
Also, I say Star Trek in name only because....much like Picard, if you change a few minor details (even less in this episode) then it doesn't resemble Star Trek at all. It felt like a mix of modern Star Wars and any of the generic sci-fi shows that are showing up on Netflix like Lost in Space. If I want Star Wars or Lost in Space or what not, I'll watch those. I come to see Star Trek to see Star Trek.
If I go to a Chinese place and order Lo Mein and they bring me what is essentially fettucine alfredo, I'm gonna be upset. Not because I don't like fettucine alfredo, but because I can get that at any number of Italian places. I wanted lo mein, which I'm now told doesn't exist because they want the masses wanted fettucine alfredo. You can't lose your identity to gain more fans or else you're not gaining fans, you're just becoming something else that they already liked in the first place.
Then find someone else who makes Lo Mein.
Do you really want yet another weekly crew on a starship encounters a problem and solve it in 45 minutes show again ?
It sounds like there will be a show to scratch this itch, the coming Pike show.
For what it's worth I read a few critic reviews who were given the first four episodes and they all say that episodes 3 & 4 are the better ones with a more old school Trek vibe - be warned though episode 2 seemed to get some flak, one reviewed compared it to Stardust City Rag.
One of the worst episodes of trek ever made. It can't be that bad :P
Thoroughly enjoyed season 3 ep 1 of Discovery last night. Loads of fun and looked terrific. Can't wait to what happens next. :)
Put me down as a happy customer, enjoying a freshly cooked plate of trek cuisine with no need for the dishes to be the same as I ate decades ago. The restaurant defines what trek cuisine is, not the other way around.
"Change is the essential process of all existence." Spock
Thoroughly enjoyed season 3 ep 1 of Discovery last night. Loads of fun and looked terrific. Can't wait to what happens next. :)
Put me down as a happy customer, enjoying a freshly cooked plate of trek cuisine with no need for the dishes to be the same as I ate decades ago. The restaurant defines what trek cuisine is, not the other way around.
"Change is the essential process of all existence." Spock
But when you remove almost anything that defined it as Trek and instead replace it with a bunch of things that are already widely available in a multitude of other shows, then it's Trek in name only in my own personal opinion.
So, Kirstie Alley is a trump supporter and scientologist....
In other news Robin Curtis was great in The Wrath Of Khan...
But when you remove almost anything that defined it as Trek and instead replace it with a bunch of things that are already widely available in a multitude of other shows, then it's Trek in name only in my own personal opinion.
Sorry you're not more entertained by it. It does suck to be disappointed by a favourite franchise. But I'm curious as to what you're actually referring to.
What aspects that "define something as Trek" do you feel have been removed? And what things from other non-Trek shows have replaced them?
I like Trek and discussing it. What defines Trek to you?While I think they occasionally took it too far, the potential future of humanity was an idealized future where everything was just super. That was Roddenberry's whole reason for making it. He wanted it to be hopeful. Once they started making movies they switched from a wonderful outlook to a future that looked just like modern, typically fucked up America. Modern Trek has a dystopian feel, which is a shame. As I see it, it's made for modern audiences, and modern audiences don't want to see a different, better mankind. They just want to see us win.
To me it appeals on several levels. Firstly, cool things like the spaceships. Secondly, it's a potential future history of humanity. Thirdly, it often addresses morals and philosophy. And last it has an adventure element to it.
As far as definition, it is defined as Trek to me by being part of that story thread that takes place in the universe that has warp drive, Starfleet, time travel, and other civilizations.
Dystopian sums up every single one of my issues.
I LOVE ST...but Discovery, and even the Picard series just had a dark, sinister, 'corruption is everywhere' vibe that just wears on me. Our current world is so, so messed up, and sometimes I just want to escape...to the 24th century!
Everytime I watch a classic TNG episode, I marvel at how well they balance a positive outlook with shades of grey.
To me, and possibly just to me, Star Trek has several defining characteristics as well as some tertiary characteristics. I feel that the defining characteristics have been deemed undesirable recently and people are focusing on the tertiary characteristics.
So I'd say the defining characteristics are as follows. And these are just off the top of my head and probably not complete.
1) A future that represents humanity becoming what we always hoped we would. The humans/federation represent that idealism, while the aliens represent the ambiguity and current issues we face. That way it still shows people confronting very relevant problems of humanity while doing so from the assumption that while we've already conquered much of this on our own, thus giving a bright future, we still have more to learn. It was never about making the future seem as bad as the present. It was about handling the present problems with the hope of the future. Take away that hope and it's just a reflection of right now, which is what every one else is already doing.
2) The final frontier, or "where no one has gone before" is more about us than about space. Space is the metaphor. I think, in my interpretation, this is exactly what Q was talking about in All Good Things. It's not about mapping star charts and nebula, it's about finding deeper and unknown aspects of our own humanity and potential.
3) Confronting, often times difficult, political, social, theological, etc dilemmas and challenging the viewer to go on that journey as well. Which is why Kirk, Spock, and Bones worked from the get go. They always had a bit of an ID, Ego, Superego element, even if they were often changing which represented what. It was the journey of examining these issues.
4) This is not what we want, but what we need. I think, but might be wrong, that it was Gene Roddenbery that said to give people what they need, not what they want. Star Trek wasn't (though it was in some more minor ways) about chasing and following social trends, but about doing what they think the people should be looking for. When you chase trends, you're just part of ever changing and ever fading zeitgeist of immediacy. When you strive for something beyond that, you tend to serve a different purpose. Star Trek used to inspire people to become officers, scientists, engineers, astronauts. Not because they wanted to give people what they want, but to give people what they didn't know they needed. How many people became astronauts because of Star Trek Into Darkness?
Then there's the tertiary stuff. The frosting on the cake that doesn't define the cake, but makes it more fun etc.
1) Space battles
2) Creative visuals
3) Good guys beating the bad guys
4) Excitement and thrills
I feel people have shifted the focus to the tertiary stuff, which almost all sci-fi also has. Which is what makes this, to me, Trek in name only. It has all that tertiary stuff that I can easily find a bunch of other places. Every thing about Star Trek for the last 10 years I can easily find in Star Wars, Firefly, Lost in Space (the new one) or one of the other dozens of Netflix original sci-fi shows. I feel people want crazy visuals and excitment and Star Trek is now trying to fill those needs. When people say they want Star Trek set in the distant future or to go to places where the laws of nature are all weird, it's just to get cool visuals. That's it. There's nothing to be learned or gained from that other than entertainment. And, maybe it's just me and maybe I'm way off, but to me Star Trek was more than just entertainment. Now? Since Abrams? Just entertainment.
Now, you can all dissect what I said and point out that Star Trek didn't always do all of those things and had moments that ran contrary to it, and you'd be missing my entire point. But this is why I say it's Trek in name only currently. Fun? Sure. Disco season 2 was a lot of fun. I hope the Pike show might be a bit more Trek, but I doubt it. With Pike Trek, I'm looking forward to fun sci-fi. I hope I'm wrong. Disco season 1 was just no fun at all. It was just modern typical sci-fi which I don't like much. Season 3 is off to a bad start but can always become fun the way season 2 did. Picard was just a complete mess of nonsense to me. I just don't think the people running Star Trek want to do Star Trek. They want to make a fun exciting product that the people want. But to me, that's never been what Star Trek was about.
To me, and possibly just to me, Star Trek has several defining characteristics as well as some tertiary characteristics. I feel that the defining characteristics have been deemed undesirable recently and people are focusing on the tertiary characteristics.That's pretty beautiful.
So I'd say the defining characteristics are as follows. And these are just off the top of my head and probably not complete.
1) A future that represents humanity becoming what we always hoped we would. The humans/federation represent that idealism, while the aliens represent the ambiguity and current issues we face. That way it still shows people confronting very relevant problems of humanity while doing so from the assumption that while we've already conquered much of this on our own, thus giving a bright future, we still have more to learn. It was never about making the future seem as bad as the present. It was about handling the present problems with the hope of the future. Take away that hope and it's just a reflection of right now, which is what every one else is already doing.
2) The final frontier, or "where no one has gone before" is more about us than about space. Space is the metaphor. I think, in my interpretation, this is exactly what Q was talking about in All Good Things. It's not about mapping star charts and nebula, it's about finding deeper and unknown aspects of our own humanity and potential.
3) Confronting, often times difficult, political, social, theological, etc dilemmas and challenging the viewer to go on that journey as well. Which is why Kirk, Spock, and Bones worked from the get go. They always had a bit of an ID, Ego, Superego element, even if they were often changing which represented what. It was the journey of examining these issues.
4) This is not what we want, but what we need. I think, but might be wrong, that it was Gene Roddenbery that said to give people what they need, not what they want. Star Trek wasn't (though it was in some more minor ways) about chasing and following social trends, but about doing what they think the people should be looking for. When you chase trends, you're just part of ever changing and ever fading zeitgeist of immediacy. When you strive for something beyond that, you tend to serve a different purpose. Star Trek used to inspire people to become officers, scientists, engineers, astronauts. Not because they wanted to give people what they want, but to give people what they didn't know they needed. How many people became astronauts because of Star Trek Into Darkness?
Then there's the tertiary stuff. The frosting on the cake that doesn't define the cake, but makes it more fun etc.
1) Space battles
2) Creative visuals
3) Good guys beating the bad guys
4) Excitement and thrills
I feel people have shifted the focus to the tertiary stuff, which almost all sci-fi also has. Which is what makes this, to me, Trek in name only. It has all that tertiary stuff that I can easily find a bunch of other places. Every thing about Star Trek for the last 10 years I can easily find in Star Wars, Firefly, Lost in Space (the new one) or one of the other dozens of Netflix original sci-fi shows. I feel people want crazy visuals and excitment and Star Trek is now trying to fill those needs. When people say they want Star Trek set in the distant future or to go to places where the laws of nature are all weird, it's just to get cool visuals. That's it. There's nothing to be learned or gained from that other than entertainment. And, maybe it's just me and maybe I'm way off, but to me Star Trek was more than just entertainment. Now? Since Abrams? Just entertainment.
Now, you can all dissect what I said and point out that Star Trek didn't always do all of those things and had moments that ran contrary to it, and you'd be missing my entire point. But this is why I say it's Trek in name only currently. Fun? Sure. Disco season 2 was a lot of fun. I hope the Pike show might be a bit more Trek, but I doubt it. With Pike Trek, I'm looking forward to fun sci-fi. I hope I'm wrong. Disco season 1 was just no fun at all. It was just modern typical sci-fi which I don't like much. Season 3 is off to a bad start but can always become fun the way season 2 did. Picard was just a complete mess of nonsense to me. I just don't think the people running Star Trek want to do Star Trek. They want to make a fun exciting product that the people want. But to me, that's never been what Star Trek was about.
It's been said many times before, but I still think it bares repeating,I don't think it's a particularly good show, but there's no question that Seth Macfarlane is much, much better at doing Star Trek than anybody at Paramount/CBS. He's done a couple of stories that rival the best of what ST had to offer, even if his way of telling them isn't really my bag.
The Orville is more or less doing Star Trek, how I prefer and like it.
It's a shame there likely will only be one more season, but better than none.
It's been said many times before, but I still think it bares repeating,
The Orville is more or less doing Star Trek, how I prefer and like it.
It's a shame there likely will only be one more season, but better than none.
It hammers home the point. To be fair, part of Orville's problem is that it's just s weird duck of a show. It's still very much the case that CBS/Paramount are in the money-making business, and they're catering to the masses. People want explosions rather than exploration. I have not, and I don't think Adami has ever denied that we are in the minority here.It's been said many times before, but I still think it bares repeating,
The Orville is more or less doing Star Trek, how I prefer and like it.
It's a shame there likely will only be one more season, but better than none.
Doesn't this kind off prove the point that old format Trek isn't popular enough anymore. The Orville has never really found a big enough audience depict starting out with a good time slot - and since then it's had to find a new home of hulu (which is a bit of a graveyard) and now it's ending, whereas Disco announced a forth season before the third even aired.
Also great post there Adami - don't agree with it all, but kudos for putting it out there.
I don't recall anybody here saying Orville was just like TNG. I said that it was better at writing Star Trek stories than Star Trek is. And I'm right.
I don't recall anybody here saying Orville was just like TNG. I said that it was better at writing Star Trek stories than Star Trek is. And I'm right.
Well The Orville if basically a rip off of TNG with a few words changed, a lot of the stories 'borrowed' heavily from Trek too. So yeah it obviously close in tone to Trek because it doesn't have any ambition above that.....aside from a bit more comedy. In terms of actual creative writing and humour peak Red Dwarf is far better sci fi show.
I don't recall anybody here saying Orville was just like TNG. I said that it was better at writing Star Trek stories than Star Trek is. And I'm right.
Well The Orville if basically a rip off of TNG with a few words changed, a lot of the stories 'borrowed' heavily from Trek too. So yeah it obviously close in tone to Trek because it doesn't have any ambition above that.....aside from a bit more comedy. In terms of actual creative writing and humour peak Red Dwarf is far better sci fi show.
I wouldn't call it a ripoff, but there's no doubt they borrowed from plenty of ST (and other sci-fi) stories and tropes. I think what Seth was particularly good at was pulling from multiple bits and combining them into new stories. The best of the Orville episodes are often two or three previous ideas merged into a new story. The planet with the sunroof was a fine example. The planet was essentially Yonada (TOS-For the World is Hollow. . .), and the antagonist was the frequent sci-fi villain, the minister who's also the defender of the faith. You see him everywhere. One specific story and one widely used trope combined into a good, new episode.I don't recall anybody here saying Orville was just like TNG. I said that it was better at writing Star Trek stories than Star Trek is. And I'm right.
Well The Orville if basically a rip off of TNG with a few words changed, a lot of the stories 'borrowed' heavily from Trek too. So yeah it obviously close in tone to Trek because it doesn't have any ambition above that.....aside from a bit more comedy. In terms of actual creative writing and humour peak Red Dwarf is far better sci fi show.
I wouldn't call it a ripoff, but there's no doubt they borrowed from plenty of ST (and other sci-fi) stories and tropes. I think what Seth was particularly good at was pulling from multiple bits and combining them into new stories. The best of the Orville episodes are often two or three previous ideas merged into a new story. The planet with the sunroof was a fine example. The planet was essentially Yonada (TOS-For the World is Hollow. . .), and the antagonist was the frequent sci-fi villain, the minister who's also the defender of the faith. You see him everywhere. One specific story and one widely used trope combined into a good, new episode.I don't recall anybody here saying Orville was just like TNG. I said that it was better at writing Star Trek stories than Star Trek is. And I'm right.
Well The Orville if basically a rip off of TNG with a few words changed, a lot of the stories 'borrowed' heavily from Trek too. So yeah it obviously close in tone to Trek because it doesn't have any ambition above that.....aside from a bit more comedy. In terms of actual creative writing and humour peak Red Dwarf is far better sci fi show.
The crewmember being subjected to stupid and arbitrary rules on a strange planet is a common enough theme in sci-fi, and ST certainly ran with it. I don't recall a planet being governed by astrology before, though. Same with the Facebook planet. New spins on old stories. Kelly becomes God was a combination of Wink of an Eye (VOY) and Prime Directive (TNG). Not sure there's any ripoff there, and an excellent episode. Seth's made no secret of this being an homage to ST, but I think he deserves some credit for crafting some excellent stories, even if many of the ideas do have roots in the ST universe.
I don't recall anybody here saying Orville was just like TNG. I said that it was better at writing Star Trek stories than Star Trek is. And I'm right.
Well The Orville if basically a rip off of TNG with a few words changed, a lot of the stories 'borrowed' heavily from Trek too. So yeah it obviously close in tone to Trek because it doesn't have any ambition above that.....aside from a bit more comedy. In terms of actual creative writing and humour peak Red Dwarf is far better sci fi show.
Yes RD series 6 was classic. 7 was awful 8 was better 9 was alright and 10 onwards has almost been classic RD. I havent seen the new special yet.
I thought the exact opposite :lol
Adami do you think you'll stick with the show no matter how bad it gets or is there a point where you'll give it up?
I thought the exact opposite :lol
Adami do you think you'll stick with the show no matter how bad it gets or is there a point where you'll give it up?
I thought the exact opposite :lol
Adami do you think you'll stick with the show no matter how bad it gets or is there a point where you'll give it up?
I finally got around to Spock's Brain and..
..it wasn't the hilarious disaster I was expecting.
It was nowhere near as terrible as Threshold or Code Of Honor Or Stardust City Rag. It was FINE...
Typical 60s Star trek silly. But not AWFUL.
I remember when the parasitic ice (don't get me started) was eating the ship as they tried to escape. I kept thinking, ohhhhhh it's Star Trek...they're going to analyze the ice and figure some cool science/tech way to find a way ou.........no? They're just gonna push harder on the gas and hope it works? Dammit.
Edit: On my huge rewatch, just starting Season 3 of ToS and we're on Spock's Brain. I'd rank Discovery above this episode, if it helps. :biggrin:
I remember when the parasitic ice (don't get me started) was eating the ship as they tried to escape. I kept thinking, ohhhhhh it's Star Trek...they're going to analyze the ice and figure some cool science/tech way to find a way ou.........no?:
I remember when the parasitic ice (don't get me started) was eating the ship as they tried to escape. I kept thinking, ohhhhhh it's Star Trek...they're going to analyze the ice and figure some cool science/tech way to find a way ou.........no?:
They probably didn't have spare episode time to spout techobabble for 5 minutes then conclude they could escape if they modify the main deflector array again.
Just popped in to say that I can't get enough of Tig Notaro on Discovery. I could watch her character all day. She's turning into one of my favorites.
Just popped in to say that I can't get enough of Tig Notaro on Discovery. I could watch her character all day. She's turning into one of my favorites.
I agree, I love every scene with her in it.
Just popped in to say that I can't get enough of Tig Notaro on Discovery. I could watch her character all day. She's turning into one of my favorites.
I agree, I love every scene with her in it.
Yes, I love that Reno stayed with the crew and Tig Notaro became a series regular.
I'd also like to raise Doug Jones as Saru to the pedastal. He displayed very TNG-era Picard qualities in the last episode, as he tried to negotiate with the outlaw courier and when he took the moral high ground against Giorgiou. I can totally see him becoming the new captain of the ship.
Despite Michael Burnham being top built as the main star of the show, Saru, Reno and Empress Giorgiou are the standout characters so far IMO.
I'm hoping Picard was just a gigantic mis-fire and that the Pike and Spock series Strange New Worlds will be a LOT lighter in tone and episodic - with a reset every week.As far as CBS is concerned Picard was a bullseye. No misfire there. However, it does look like they're trying to make SNW more akin to TOS. I'm pretty sure they've said it will definitely be episodic, which is a huge improvement in my book.
MAYBE a B - story thread that continues through the series - but no cliffhangers every episode etc.
It basically needs to be a modern update of TOS.
I hate hate hate serialised fiction as I don't want to watch essentially the same story for 10 years like Walking Dead or Game Of Thrones. I am just NOT interested.
No matter how good a show starts off - ( everyone raved about LOST's first season then by the end NOBODY liked it )... they pretty much ALWAYS sag in the middle or end up
shit by the end or get cancelled so you've wasted your time.
The only reason I enjoy Discovery is that it's literally like 15 episodes of one story - then the next season is a brand new story - and there's still some stand alone eps in there too.
Strange New Worlds needs to be everything Picard wasn't. Episodic. Bright and optimistic. Humorous a la the on-the-bridge wrap ups like TOS had where it pans out of the bridge
after a spock quip. etc etc.
Star Trek Discovery Season 3 so far is great. It feels like a new show. The future is where the show should have been this whole time.
Season 2 felt like they were making up for Season 1 and was just to get them to the future and now Season 3 feels like
" This is what we wanted to do all along but TPTB wanted a Game of Thrones TOS prequel with bald Klingons "
Episode 3 " People Of Earth " felt just like a modern TNG episode.
Excited to see where this season goes and future seasons ( S4 was confirmed btw - but how often do we hear it's gonna get cancelled any day now gatekeepers ? )
🖖🏼😊 .
Yeah, liked it a lot. I dunno who who wanted what with the first 2 seasons but this tone feels great.
SPOILERS
The main woman from United Earth had no presence/charisma whatsoever.
The time travel loss/grief headfuck with Tilly was really good.
I liked the Titan/Earth diplomacy fix but it felt incredibly fast. I felt that season 2 was really cool but was often running at double speed. I could tolerate things a little slower.
All the ships just exploded? What will that be? Romulans? Section 31?
The visuals are amazing.
That was an outstanding episode.
I’ll write a review and remove any negative opinions.
There it is.
That was an outstanding episode.
Agreed, best of the season.
That was an outstanding episode.
Agreed, best of the season.
I don't know about this being best of the season so far, but very solid episode regardless!
I’ll write a review and remove any negative opinions.
There it is.
I’ll write a review and remove any negative opinions.
There it is.
Genuinely surprised by this. This to me felt closest in line to TNG disco has been. The story beats and even sets (A cave, Trill clothing) felt 80's/90's Trek and most importantly the tone of the episode felt that way too (a nod to 20th century culture!). Very old school trek vibe for me.
If it helps, I disliked it for different reasons than all of season 1 and the first 2 episodes of this season.
I understand that they were TRYING to do a classic Trek type thing. And, on some level, I do actually appreciate the attempt. But I feel it was just so shallow and superficial that it showed they just didn't "get" Trek at all. The concept of a human unfortunately bonding with a Trill symbiont and having to go the home planet to connect with it because of the mismatch is a perfectly classic Trek thing to do. I agree 100%. But I just thought the execution fell flat for me. I get why many people feel the ending (with the former hosts coming together) was very emotional and so forth. But it felt cheap. It felt like manufactured emotion due to the good acting/music cues. I just feel the writers on this show are not very good. I like most of the actors, and even a good amount of the characters. But the writing is....just really dumb to me. I get it that I'm on a rather small island on this one, and that's cool. If you guys think the writing is fantastic or great, then brilliant. Maybe I'm wrong about all of it. But I feel the way I feel.
I did, mostly, enjoy the 3rd episode. (third, right? When they go back to earth?) and just found out Frakes directed it. So that makes sense.
I had one beef, which was the casting of Grey Tal (spelling?) - who I found toe-curlingly hard to watch. I mean, really hard. Awful. (Shudder...) So much so that it pulled me out of that event's impact completely. Why was Adira dating a 12 year old? Really v surprised they went with that choice.
Blimey. I'll just put it down to my getting old, then! ;D
Blimey. I'll just put it down to my getting old, then! ;D
No he looked insanely young.
It definitely felt like two 12 year olds getting it on.
Blimey. I'll just put it down to my getting old, then! ;D
Two things I can say about episode 6 of Discovery.
1. It looks like it cost a fortune.
2. Adami will hate this episode.
Two things I can say about episode 6 of Discovery.
1. It looks like it cost a fortune.
2. Adami will hate this episode.
Did not like it.
Did not like it.
Called it!
To be honest I wasn't overly keen on this one either.
Certainly looked the part, but I didn't find it overly engaging.
Burnham doing twatish Burnham things...
Saru made to look weak...
That weird spinning camera lingering kiss...
And the transport joke was mildly amusing once, didn't need repeating 4 times...
Did not like it.
Called it!
To be honest I wasn't overly keen on this one either.
Certainly looked the part, but I didn't find it overly engaging.
Burnham doing twatish Burnham things...
Saru made to look weak...
That weird spinning camera lingering kiss...
And the transport joke was mildly amusing once, didn't need repeating 4 times...
S3 is easily the best season of Discovery so far
Yeah I did notice how much Burnham was whispering dramatically.)
Are they going after the AMSR crowd ? ;D
It reminds me of modern day Doctor Who - where every episode seemed to end in a tearful confession or denouement.
It's like - you don't have to do that EVERY week ffs.
i gotta say, I'm rooting for Tilly in her new [Spoiler] position on Discovery. To me, it felt a bit like Nog, who got he's big break in Starfleet in that one S3 episode of DS9.
I just hope they stop treating her like a Neelix- level "comic" relief, and start shaping her into a more interesting character. :lol
Watched the latest episode - was OK. Bit disappointed how one dimensional it's becoming - go somewhere (Earth, Trill Planet, Star Fleet head quarters, Vulcan) meet with suspicion but ultimately win them over.
Watched the latest episode - was OK. Bit disappointed how one dimensional it's becoming - go somewhere (Earth, Trill Planet, Star Fleet head quarters, Vulcan) meet with suspicion but ultimately win them over.
You forgot something. Michael is the only person in the universe who can do whatever it is they need to do.
Help the trill? HAS TO BE MICHAEL!
Broker peace between earth and some random peeps? HAS TO BE MICHAEL!
Help the alien guy who has a member of his species 10 feet away? HAS TO BE MICHAEL!
Get info from Vulcan? HAS TO BE MICHAEL!
I read a good review that pointed out that Tilly was only made the new number 1 because she had the most lines of anyone else, as opposed to any logical explanation at all.
I read a good review that pointed out that Tilly was only made the new number 1 because she had the most lines of anyone else, as opposed to any logical explanation at all.
I didn't mind that to be honest, it kindoff works because it was Saru's choice we've seen Saru totally trusts Tilly......and we've been shown the thing that hurts Saru most about having to demote Burnham is despict their friendship he simply can't trust her to follow his command.
Watched the latest episode - was OK. Bit disappointed how one dimensional it's becoming - go somewhere (Earth, Trill Planet, Star Fleet head quarters, Vulcan) meet with suspicion but ultimately win them over.
You forgot something. Michael is the only person in the universe who can do whatever it is they need to do.
Help the trill? HAS TO BE MICHAEL!
Broker peace between earth and some random peeps? HAS TO BE MICHAEL!
Help the alien guy who has a member of his species 10 feet away? HAS TO BE MICHAEL!
Get info from Vulcan? HAS TO BE MICHAEL!
Yeah the show could definitely use a couple of Burnham-lite episodes soon. It looked like we were going to get to know some of the b-crew members a bit more early on - instead it's been more Burnham heavy than ever........even characters like Culber, Reno and Georgiou seem to go missing every other episode.
Culber is the black doctor dude and Stamets boyf.
Reno is the sassy wisecracking engineer who they picked up from the Hiawatha in S2.
Owo is the black pilot girl who sits up front with Detmer ( one eye ).
Rhys and Bryce are the 2 dudes who stand near the back. Oh and Nillson is the blond girl who used to play Airiam but they killed off her character and bought her back as a human.
( For some reason - another actor played Airiam for the episode where she goes bye bye out of an airlock )
I *think* I read that blond girl didn't want to spend hours in make up every day to play Airiam anymore so they recast for the ep where you get an info dump about her life
only for her to die - so you're supposed to feel something.
Yup. We 100% need more Rhys, Bryce and Owo stories.
Plus more of the CMO and apparently we've not even seen the warp core or Chief Engineer yet...
I'm assuming that the black female doctor is the CMO but I can't remember if they said yet.
Imagine getting to S3 of TOS or TNG without yet seeing the engine room, or La Forge or Beverly Crusher.
Watched the latest episode - was OK. Bit disappointed how one dimensional it's becoming - go somewhere (Earth, Trill Planet, Star Fleet head quarters, Vulcan) meet with suspicion but ultimately win them over.
You forgot something. Michael is the only person in the universe who can do whatever it is they need to do.
Help the trill? HAS TO BE MICHAEL!
Broker peace between earth and some random peeps? HAS TO BE MICHAEL!
Help the alien guy who has a member of his species 10 feet away? HAS TO BE MICHAEL!
Get info from Vulcan? HAS TO BE MICHAEL!
I can't understand the people who are genuinely like " Black Woman as the lead ? I'm done with Star Trek. "The problem wasn't a black woman lead. Nobody cared about Sisko, and Uhuru was not only a beloved character, she was a main character in the Abrams movies, on par with K/S/M. Where people objected was shoehorning into the lead a black woman for no other reason than diversity's sake. And that applied across the cast, IIRC. I might well be wrong, but I thought having the only white male character be gay created the bigger uproar than the black woman star. In any case, if the character works then it's not a problem. If the character is miscast then it's a problem. I have no idea how Burnham worked out, but she seems to get mixed reviews.
It's like Good. it doesn't want you.
Terrible episode. Contender for worst of the season thus far.
Terrible episode. Contender for worst of the season thus far.
Yes but you literally say that every week.
Terrible episode. Contender for worst of the season thus far.
I'm with Adami.
I'm with Adami.
Every episode I hope Giorgiou dies. I don't hate Michelle Yeoh - but answering literally...LITERALLY everything said to her with a snarky comment got REALLY irritating.
It reminded ME?
of the WAY ?
That one guy SPOKE ?
In Time's ARROW ?
Every single LINE ?
The same WAY ?
for Two HOURS ?
It's not in the top half of Star Trek movies (I don't count the JJ movies there),
The characters are, sadly, much much duller versions of themselves, and it's missing a lot of the essential character elements that made that crew what they were.
The characters are, sadly, much much duller versions of themselves, and it's missing a lot of the essential character elements that made that crew what they were.
The script is adapted from the pilot episode of the never made Star Trek Phase II series, I can imagine a lot of the dialog was lifted straight from those pages, because like you I don't think original crew feel right in The Motion Picture....on Khan everyone is back though!
The original one missed the entire barn. I saw it when it was first released and it made zero sense. It wasn't until they re-released the director's cut that they put enough of the story back in to be cogent, and it was pretty good. I've always thought it best to just consider the first 20 minutes the overture. It's essentially just two long music videos with some intermittent, non-important dialogue cut in. Once you get passed that it picks up quite a bit.The characters are, sadly, much much duller versions of themselves, and it's missing a lot of the essential character elements that made that crew what they were.
The script is adapted from the pilot episode of the never made Star Trek Phase II series, I can imagine a lot of the dialog was lifted straight from those pages, because like you I don't think original crew feel right in The Motion Picture....on Khan everyone is back though!
And apparently the cast felt the same way. Seems most if not all of them have commented that they felt the movie missed the mark. Though I think I liked it more than they did haha.
That episode where it's the crew of DS9 but in the past and they're all journalists...
When Sisko breaks down at the end - his acting is beyond hammy. It's so cringey.
This is a recurring thing among all ST actors. They invent their characters so they're necessarily perfect at portraying them. When they're asked to play somebody outside of their main character most of them suck something awful. Good actors can pull it off. ST actors just get hammy. That's what made all of DS9's mirror universe episodes so bad.That episode where it's the crew of DS9 but in the past and they're all journalists...
When Sisko breaks down at the end - his acting is beyond hammy. It's so cringey.
Yeah that's rough also playing a Bond villain in the 'Our Man Bashir' episode.......Jesus!
DS9 also my favourite Trek but there are certainly many cringe moments. Brooks was a bizarre lead. Really unpredictable. When you see him interviewed it starts to make sense. Man's a crazy jazz cat. 😊
I mostly hate Data but love that drinking scene in Generations.
That episode where it's the crew of DS9 but in the past and they're all journalists...
When Sisko breaks down at the end - his acting is beyond hammy. It's so cringey.
That Captains doc is pretty weird - Shatner is a bit of a odd ball anyway (but yeah Avery definitely out nutjobs him).
On the flipside Rene Auberjonois is amazing as Odo gives the character real pathos - maybe my favorite Star Trek performance.
That episode where it's the crew of DS9 but in the past and they're all journalists...
When Sisko breaks down at the end - his acting is beyond hammy. It's so cringey.
I actually thought that was one of the best performances of the cast, especially Avery Brooks.
That Captains doc is pretty weird - Shatner is a bit of a odd ball anyway (but yeah Avery definitely out nutjobs him).Can't argue about Shatner being an odd bird, but after watching that I thought he was a much better interviewer than people give him credit for. A lot of what he was doing was trying to illicit more complex answers from people after hearing something that intrigued him. He'd be listening to someone talk about something and you could see him light up when some aspect of that answer piqued his interest. He'd follow up with a story about himself that lead to exactly what he wanted to get out of the person he was talking to. What a lot of people called self-centeredness I saw as subtle manipulation. I thought it was fun to watch.
On the flipside Rene Auberjonois is amazing as Odo gives the character real pathos - maybe my favorite Star Trek performance.
That Captains doc is pretty weird - Shatner is a bit of a odd ball anyway (but yeah Avery definitely out nutjobs him).Can't argue about Shatner being an odd bird, but after watching that I thought he was a much better interviewer than people give him credit for. A lot of what he was doing was trying to illicit more complex answers from people after hearing something that intrigued him. He'd be listening to someone talk about something and you could see him light up when some aspect of that answer piqued his interest. He'd follow up with a story about himself that lead to exactly what he wanted to get out of the person he was talking to. What a lot of people called self-centeredness I saw as subtle manipulation. I thought it was fun to watch.
On the flipside Rene Auberjonois is amazing as Odo gives the character real pathos - maybe my favorite Star Trek performance.
Can't argue about Shatner being an odd bird, but after watching that I thought he was a much better interviewer than people give him credit for.
a pretty funny guy. He guest hosted an episode panel show here in the UK called 'Have I Got News For You' I was expecting a car crash....but he was genuinely great fun on it.
In fact - I don't need to watch it to know that he "hilariously" beams in to the host chair.
Because i've been into Trek since the mid 80s and every single show with a star trek guest does it.
Every. Single. One.
Same diff !
I guess HIGNFY is a little less on the nose. They'd make a sh*t effect and make a big deal out of it being a sh*t effect. That's what I love about English humour.
I watched a 12 min film starring Brent Spiner last night where he is playing himself and starts singing out of the blue and swearing profusely...
It's been my theory for a while now that Brent is the Shatner of TNG. He thinks it's all about him and only plays up his Star Trek credentials when it suits HIM. ***
They both think they're hilarious and awesome when they're really just annoying.
Then it hit me yet a third time.
Brent Spiner.... Bill Shatner.... Both B.S. :lol
*** I bet he was only coaxed back to play Data for Picard S1 if he could get a producers and writers credit etc etc...
Discovery S3 is such an improvement on S2 that I wonder how the hell they messed up so badly with Picard.
S3 is more like a modern TNG so far. With the morality stuff. S2 just felt like they made it up as thy went along and had to tie everything up in the last episode.
STII is my favorite movie and I could talk about it for hours.
Don't worry, I won't. Adami very sufficiently outlined its brilliance.
Just noticed there is only three episodes of Disco left this season.
I know, man. ;)
The guy in the last episode of Discovery was said to have crossed from the Kelvin universe to the Discovery universe, so I read.
I don't have a problem with time travel, parallel universes, warp drives, transporters, spore drives, time crystals, replicators or anything else, tbh. It's all fantasy afaic.
Star trek Beyond is 100% the best of the 3 "abrams" movies - even though he didn't direct it. Although it's quite a murky film. They really needed the same DOP as 2009 and Into Darkness.Funny you mention the DP. I actually agree with you. With a better director of photography the first 8 or so minutes would have been excellent. The next two hours were going to be shit either way, but at least there'd be something redeeming about the movie. I really liked the breakdown in negotiations to start the movie and Kirk's monologue about the pointlessness of what they're doing. I just didn't like the constant rolling of the camera everywhere. What's wrong with straight lines from time to time? Once they get to the snow globe it just becomes another action flick with familiar characters battling the generic alien of the week.
I don't have a problem with time travel, parallel universes, warp drives, transporters, spore drives, time crystals, replicators or anything else, tbh. It's all fantasy afaic.
It’s not what. It’s how. They can’t just write whatever they want and say “it’s fantasy, stop wanting it to be well thought out”.
If so, that might be where I just totally stop taking this seriously.
The next two hours were going to be shit either way, but at least there'd be something redeeming about the movie. I really liked the breakdown in negotiations to start the movie and Kirk's monologue about the pointlessness of what they're doing. I just didn't like the constant rolling of the camera everywhere. What's wrong with straight lines from time to time? Once they get to the snow globe it just becomes another action flick with familiar characters battling the generic alien of the week.
So I am so conflicted on the most recent 2 parter. I mean...I didn't hate it. I actually kind of enjoyed a lot of it. But I also recognize that it's terrible. I dunno? Maybe this team just should've done Mirror Universe Trek instead of this. Their sensibilities seem to be more in line with the Terran Empire than Starfleet. I think it'd make more sense to just make everything mirror universe rather than constantly making the prime universe as dark as humanly possible at every turn.
Anyway, I'm glad she's gone. She was fun for a bit but so 1 dimensional that I could only see her from a certain angle. I thought the Guardian of Forever coming back was duuuuumb. I thought almost everything about the episodes were duuuuuumb. I thought the writing was duuuuumb. But somehow, maybe the acting/directing, I didn't despise the episodes. I'd still give them a 5-6/10, but that's a big step up from the 3/10 I've been considering most of this season.
Well there's been a Section 31 spin off in the works for ages now.
I'm not sure where she has gone back to - but is there even a Section 31 in the Mirror Universe ?
I feel like S31 is supposed to be the covert / militaristic side of Starfleet.
The Terran Empire is just flat out evil.
Discovery is losing me now, the run of the last few episodes is probably the lowest point since the pilot. Mandolorian is so fanwanky and stupid now it'd make JJ roll his eyes.
Thank fuck The Expanse is back.
//I hate shitting on Star Trek (apart from Insurrections) but this is really bleh now...
You'd be fine. It's set about 5 years or so after Return of the Jedi. It features some characters from some of the animated shows, but I've never seen any of those and I never felt lost.Discovery is losing me now, the run of the last few episodes is probably the lowest point since the pilot. Mandolorian is so fanwanky and stupid now it'd make JJ roll his eyes.
Thank fuck The Expanse is back.
//I hate shitting on Star Trek (apart from Insurrections) but this is really bleh now...
I'm starting to feel the same way about Discovery. Off topic for the ST thread but I've only seen the SW prequels and original trilogy, how lost would I be watching the Mandalorian?
This is actually heading towards being the worst season of new Trek.
Also.. I've paid a lot of suspension-of-disbelief to the holodeck account so far, but give me a freakin break; people can walk in on each other's personalized programs?! Let's say LaForge and Riker can.. because of their rank, fine, but is there just one holodeck? To be used by one person at a time and if you enter it; you walk right into that person's fantasy? They never referred to different holodeck
They pretty much always say " He is on Holodeck (x) " as in 2 or 3 etc...
The Most Toys.....I always had a problem with the ending. Data cannot kill a living being and cannot tell a lie. But he both intended to kill Fajo and then lied about it. .
Also - Data is fast and extremely strong. He could have dodged the phaser blast and rendered Fajo unconscious easily - OR just stunned him with a lower setting.
I've seen this same question elsewhere and nobody can agree on a definitive answer.
However - for my money - Data would have 'fessed up to Riker about having no other course of action - and that if he had tried to escape again - Fajo would have definitely killed more people
and that he had no other option. Like in the episode with the repair - robots which Data realises are self-aware and he disobeys a direct order and locks out the transporters - putting actual
Back to TNG with a decent 3-episode stretch!I originally guessed 10 years for you to get through it all. Looks like I should have gone with 20.
Hollow Pursuits: Didn't like the actor playing Barclay, the holodeck scenes were obviously designed to be funny but were flat as fuck. However, I think this episode heavily inspired an episode I saw of The Orville so it was fun seeing where all that came from.
Also.. I've paid a lot of suspension-of-disbelief to the holodeck account so far, but give me a freakin break; people can walk in on each other's personalized programs?! Let's say LaForge and Riker can.. because of their rank, fine, but is there just one holodeck? To be used by one person at a time and if you enter it; you walk right into that person's fantasy? They never referred to different holodeck chambers or anything like that, when you say someone's in the holodeck, it's that one room everybody heads to.
The Most Toys: An excellent episode with a strong ToS vibe to it. No Data episode has failed me thus far! The actor and the writing for the character is still exceptional, it seems to me like Data and Pickard were the only two characters that the writers had a clear understanding of from the get-go.
Fajo.. a standard ToS-type villain, made special by an amazing actor. All his one-on-one scenes with Data were simply outstanding, especially the last one. His portrayal of confidence that Data won't kill him, mixed with mock pity of Data's predicament, quickly turning into the realization that Data is indeed contemplating murder which turns into unspoken despair, I just loved that scene! And I only spoke of Fajo's half of it, Spiner's subtle acting was just as phenomenal here.
I looked up the guy, his name is Saul Rubinek, criminally underused actor IMO. We almost didn't even get him for this, I found a different actor (https://youtu.be/hcN4upJ3FQ4) was originally set to play Fajo.
Do you guys think Data intentionally shot the gun? We know for sure the gun was shot, it didn't feel like Data's intent was meant to be ambiguous, even though it would have been cool if it were. But Data seemingly lying to Riker about it, cast some doubt for me. Data can't lie, right?
I find it a little silly whenever we're reminded that everything needs to happen within the main cast of characters and the guest stars. Data's gone! We need someone to replace him at ops; that heavily technical navigational job, Oh I know, let's get the chief of security to do it! I mean, we already know his name and he's like a few feet away from where we need him to be heh
Sarek: At first I thought "Pretty sure that's Spock's dad" then I was "Pretty sure that's the same actor who played Spock's dad in ToS", so I paused to check and was happy to confirm it!
This has got to be the first direct connection to ToS since I briefly saw Bones in the pilot!
I enjoyed seeing the crew acting more human, that heated argument between LaForge and Wesley, yeah it was a bit forced, but it felt more natural and human than most conversations on the show.
Then Picard said SPOCK!
It was pretty cool, I've come to consider TnG a very separate and detached universe than ToS over the 3 season seasons and it was cool to see it acknowledge it again.
I need to watch the movies after Wrath of Khan, I should know where the ToS characters are supposed to be, or else TNG may spoil it sooner or later, I feel.
I did a little geek digging, to see if Sarek being 200 years old adds up. So Kirk's mission was from 2207 to 2212 according to Wikipedia and Data said in the first season that TnG is happening in 2364, which should make Sarek somewhere in his mid-50's when we saw him on ToS.. Spock possibly being 30, I dunno.
The episode itself was cool.
I think I'm finally at peace with the actor playing Riker, I think he found a happy medium by late season 3.
I originally guessed 10 years for you to get through it all. Looks like I should have gone with 20.
As for The Most Toys, I agree about Saul Rubinek. He's been great in everything I've seen him in. In Unforgiven he was somewhat naive, looking to others to teach him what's going on. In True Romance he's cocky and powerful. Here he's confident but very thoughtful and methodical. Well rounded actor and good at whatever he does.
I shared the problem with the ending. Data would have had no problem greasing the guy. He very clearly posed an imminent threat to the others around him, especially after wasting his girlfriend just to watch it happen. His options were to shoot the guy or surrender and let the situation continue. Since he had know way of knowing he was going to be beamed out, he had to act. My problem was lying about it afterward. I suppose it is possible that he was just throwing out some plausible deniability, like Orbert suggests, but Data would necessarily insist on putting every single detail into his log. His nature would prevent him from leaving it at "eh, beats me."
We're talking about a guy who single-handedly humiliated an entire Romulan invasion fleet, and saved the federation in the process, and then submitted himself for disciplinary action as soon as he was done because he didn't follow orders exactly to the letter. Lying about a icing a guy is well beyond his capabilities.
Ironically enough for me - I don't find Lwaxana annoying. I mean she is obviously written to be gregarious and outspoken and flamboyant -
- but Majel plays her *PERFECTLY*. The episode where she reveals that Deanna had a sister who died - Majel's acting is heartbreaking.
On the other hand - Deanna is not written to be irritating and useless - but she always is - and Guinan is the true ships counsellor.
The first season I couldn't stand Troi. "THE PAIN!"
But over the seasons they got her character right.
Ironically enough for me - I don't find Lwaxana annoying. I mean she is obviously written to be gregarious and outspoken and flamboyant -
Nothing so far this season as awful as Stardust City Rag.
At least we have Strange New Worlds coming too. Which is based on TOS - will be episodic and lighter in tone.
I'm not one of those Trekkers that just wants TNG over and over but SNW needs to be basically TOS updated.
People prefer Generations over First Contact? Ok.... ;DYeah, I agree. At the same time, Picard was playing Picard, though. That's the last time that would happen.
I mean Generations did do what it was marketed to do - put Kirk and Picard together.......but everything else is so surrounding that is so bad. Even the Kirk and Picard scenes aren't that great mainly because Shatner is playing Shatner rather than Kirk.
Picard had completely different show-runners and writers to Discovery.
Anywho, as part of my big re-watch, I saw Search for Spock a few days ago.The Klingons were all pretty dumb, but I liked Lloyd a lot. I don't remember recall any problem with the actions scenes, and in fact thought the loss of Enterprise was very well done. It's definitely early 80s looking, but it played out very well and you could always tell who was doing what. Part of what I dislike so much about the JJA movies is that you can never tell who's shooting what at who. The space battles are all confusing messes. TSfS, and of course TWoK were exactly how I like to see that sort of thing done.
I gotta say.....it's exactly what I remembered it being. It's not bad, it's not very good. It's right in the middle of the road. As much as I love Christopher Lloyd, I think he was just not the right choice for the character, despite doing an okay job. I dunno. The rest of the Klingons seemed uncharacteristically dumb as well. They don't know what a countdown is? I dunno. I feel like if the script had a few more run throughs before the final draft, it would've been improved. Also the action, for lack of a better word, was just not super well directed. I think this might have been Nimoy's first big directing gig. He got the character stuff great but his action directing wasn't great and kind of held the movie back.
That said, the character work IS really good. Stealing the Enterprise was a ton of fun and all the of actors got to shine. It really brought out what we loved about that crew. Also Kirk hearing his son was killed was just very well done. Shatner's acting in Khan and this is a real step up from the joke people generally tend to make him out to be.
Not much more to say because the movie just didn't inspire me to say a ton. It's enjoyable and fun but not great and pretty forgettable. That said, very excited to watch Voyage Home when I do. My girlfriend has never seen Star Trek, but is a big sci-fi geek beyond it. I'm thinking showing her Voyage Home as her introduction since it's pretty fun, lighter, well done, and you don't really need to know a ton of the history/lore to enjoy it.
Anywho, as part of my big re-watch, I saw Search for Spock a few days ago.The Klingons were all pretty dumb, but I liked Lloyd a lot. I don't remember recall any problem with the actions scenes, and in fact thought the loss of Enterprise was very well done. It's definitely early 80s looking, but it played out very well and you could always tell who was doing what. Part of what I dislike so much about the JJA movies is that you can never tell who's shooting what at who. The space battles are all confusing messes. TSfS, and of course TWoK were exactly how I like to see that sort of thing done.
I gotta say.....it's exactly what I remembered it being. It's not bad, it's not very good. It's right in the middle of the road. As much as I love Christopher Lloyd, I think he was just not the right choice for the character, despite doing an okay job. I dunno. The rest of the Klingons seemed uncharacteristically dumb as well. They don't know what a countdown is? I dunno. I feel like if the script had a few more run throughs before the final draft, it would've been improved. Also the action, for lack of a better word, was just not super well directed. I think this might have been Nimoy's first big directing gig. He got the character stuff great but his action directing wasn't great and kind of held the movie back.
That said, the character work IS really good. Stealing the Enterprise was a ton of fun and all the of actors got to shine. It really brought out what we loved about that crew. Also Kirk hearing his son was killed was just very well done. Shatner's acting in Khan and this is a real step up from the joke people generally tend to make him out to be.
Not much more to say because the movie just didn't inspire me to say a ton. It's enjoyable and fun but not great and pretty forgettable. That said, very excited to watch Voyage Home when I do. My girlfriend has never seen Star Trek, but is a big sci-fi geek beyond it. I'm thinking showing her Voyage Home as her introduction since it's pretty fun, lighter, well done, and you don't really need to know a ton of the history/lore to enjoy it.
My only real problem with it was the rebirth of Spock, and then his growth being tied to the rapid aging of the planet. Everything works out so there's just enough time for him to bang Saavik and leave at exactly the same age he was when he died. Also, Sarek explains it to Kirk like leaving your marbles in somebody else's head is the most natural thing in the world. And then when they get to Vulcan it turns out that actually doing something with those marbles is super rare and dangerous. Honestly, none of that made any sense. So, I suppose, the entire premise of the movie. :lol
Still, I always liked it more than most. It's just got a good 80's Trek feel to it.
From The Dark Knight Thread - joker is so crazy - he'd never get anything done
Sidebar : the phrase " you ain't shit " makes me laugh because it literally looks like " You aren't shit " - in other words " You're great ". ;D
So when I see pathetic instagram or twitter posts from women that say " men ain't shit " i'm like " aww, thank you ! " :D
(https://i.ibb.co/JQWW2h5/vlcsnap-2021-01-05-00h17m56s779.png) (https://ibb.co/0tppZwh)I figured you'd dig this one quite a bit. Now, transport yourself back to 1990 and imagine this as a season cliffhanger where there was 4 months between "fire" and the second part. That was a long wait. Truth be told, in the original multi-month format I thought the second half was a letdown. This is a recurring thing with TNG season cliffhangers. The first part is typically great and the second part is anti-climactic. Watching as you are may smooth that along, though. In any case, it was still excellent.
I took this screencap to mark the baddest ass TNG moment yet IMO.
So I started this episode, I saw it was an 1.5 hours long, I thought "I'll do the usual 20 minutes and call it a night".
Next thing I knew; I finished it and preparing to do a second run through.
This fuckin episode.. this is some next level shit.
How much money was spent on this? The effects are fuckin marvelous by 90's standards and more than acceptable by today's standards!
The Borg! It's so cool that this happened with an alien race that we already encountered and had some idea of how they operate, they didn't just drop something new on us, monster-of-the-week style.
The Borg, what a bad ass concept for villains, they are one, they are all, utterly selfless, relentless, calculated, pragmatic and almost invincible. If they come back from this and learnt from it; I'd be very interested to know how they could be defeated again.
The Borg, so confident that you "ain't shit", that they'd let you beam aboard and just walk around their ship.. cause you ain't shit.
The Borg, is this ship their entire fleet? entire race? do they have a home planet? Can you imagine fighting.. hell, two of these ships?!
Riker was a boss, I wish the actor was better for this episode, but his lines carried the load sufficiently.
Towards the end when it sounded like everybody wanted to prevent the Borg ship from self-destructing because reasons; I literally went "nope, nope, nope, nope, nope, nope, nope" and Riker came through for me haha
Again, this ups the level big time and I need to not to expect this often, if not ever again, for all I know I could be heading back into a Lwaxana episode again soon.
TNG Seasons 4 - 6 are mostly great. 7 has some dodgy eps which are still fun though.
We don't talk about sub rosa....
Sidebar : the phrase " you ain't shit " makes me laugh because it literally looks like " You aren't shit " - in other words " You're great ". ;D
So when I see pathetic instagram or twitter posts from women that say " men ain't shit " i'm like " aww, thank you ! " :D
It's a low-end southern American thing, heavily used in cowboy movies and hiphop/rap music heh, I've been enjoying it the last couple of years ;D
It relies on the fact that if you are "the shit", that means you're real deal.
The worst one of the sorts is when I started working in the south and someone will tell me over the radio "There ain't nothing in this tank", I'd go "So what's in it then?" and the situation would take a minute to resolve :lol
TNG Seasons 4 - 6 are mostly great. 7 has some dodgy eps which are still fun though.
We don't talk about sub rosa....
Oh god. Thanks for reminding me. Other than the final episode of Enterprise (which I still consider worse than anything else for different reasons) I'm not skipping anything and will have to endure Sub Rosa. Eesh.
I think one of my favorite treatment of Klingons, in conjunction with the gestalt of their portrayal, was in Enterprise when Archer was on trial and he had a Klingon lawyer who talked about the fact that lots of Klingons aren't warriors but that they are looked down upon. I thought this added a good amount of depth. Yes, the warrior race is the face of the empire but they have scientists and doctors and lawyers and teachers who are the foundation of the empire but are treated as lesser than.Yeah, they really were assholes. Even the lawyer (Martok, IIRC) understood how fatally flawed they were, yet still defended his place in the system until Archer convinced him otherwise. Ezri was the one that really got it. The Klingons are dying, and it's about damn time. Worf was, as she pointed out, the most honorable man around, and even he was having to cover up for the hypocrisy of the Empire, for its own good.
I always liked the Klingons, although I liked them a lot more in the TNG and after iterations than the OG versions.I don't know about all that. Kor was the quintessential Klingon. Aside from being the model, he was also took pride and pleasure in being amazingly ruthless. A close runner up is going to be Kang. He was icy cold and yet still capable of not being a mindless drone. A lot of the TNG Klingons seemed to be, like I said before, cartoonish. Very few of them have any depth. It's difficult to see how the Klingons could actually have an empire looking solely at the TNG version. They're just too stupid and driven by mania. The TOS Klingons seemed to have more substance. If nothing else they could at least manage the people and tech that they conquered.
S3 disco trek has individual transporters. They can get from anywhere on the ship to anywhere on the ship in a second.
Tilly - who has no business being in Command. She's the typical ASDGHJKL Omgggggggggggggg Twitter type girl. She never would have passed the Academy or made it to Ensign.
I thought you said John Harrison for a moment. I was like - well - he had the Botany Bay and then stole the Uss Vengeance... Oh wait you mean Alan Ruck.
The Finale was crap. Just a series of cliffhanger moments (not remotely tense ones either) linked together by a bunch of technobabble. Osyraa goes back to being pure cartoon after showing a little bit more in the previous episode. The mystery of the burn is just so underwhelming, and did I miss any explaination as to what the music meant? And what was with all those 180 camera spins!
There was a rumour that Voyager towards the end of it's run the writers would just dish out lines of dialog to the characters purely based on giving them something to do in big crew scenes. There was a scene like this is this Finale. Burnham has just sent Tilly a coded message (to do with Birthdays and Fireworks) and as Tilly works it out the other crew with her all take it in turns to speak - it looked awful (and it didn't help that what they were saying was pure technobabble!).
Oh God the turbo lift scenes....wow, so bad.
I've defended this show from the off, I actually saw potential in Season 1 (some of the middle episodes are very good). Season 2 I thought was great Trek (and I appear to be the only person who liked Picard!)......but this season in particular the second half has been poor. We also have the potential that the best character in Saru (although the writers constantly tried to make him look bad in this series) isn't going to be in it anymore, or will play a much smaller role.
Why show Reno once in the entire finale in a pointless aftermath scene...what purpose did that do?
...and I hope they never find away to bring Gray back, because he's awful.
I've never seen ferris Bueller. Not least cause I hate Matthew broderick. His acting is appalling.
People always cite Ferris as one of his good performances. And then can't name another.
He always sounds so flat and like he's reading his lines for the first time from a card off camera.
I'm also not keen on that John Hughes style of film - except for Home Alone...
I also really disliked The Breakfast Club.
RE : Everyone having a line to give actors something to say... They frequently did that in Conference Room scenes in TNG too.
It would start with Picard then would literally go around the table until every character said one line.
I guess it's ok when it's "proper" Star Trek though...
I hear that Strange New Worlds will be really tonally brighter and episodic - basically like a modern day TOS.
I cannot wait for that. I really enjoyed Ethan as Spock and Anson was perfect as Pike.
Plus we get to see that beautiful updated Enterprise every week.
Which in my view - is a way nicer design than the 1966 OG one.
----
I didn't enjoy Emperor G as a character so i'm glad she's gone to wherever she's gone. And Tilly is annoying as fuck. Apart from that I don't dislike any of the main crew.
I’m watching The Most Toys again. It occurred to me that whenever they talk to someone onI never thought about it before, but I suppose that is a plot necessity. I wonder how many times they've shot a scene, only to realize that her presence ruins the entire story, and then had to re-do it after sending her off to craft services. It must have happened before.
the viewer - and we the audience know they’re lying; Troi is conveniently not there
to tell Picard they’re full of s💩t.
Admiral Vance is super watchable and has some of that serious, fatherly quality that a senior officer needs.
All that, plus it's got "double dumbass on you!"
And I love it! It's a Star Trek movie without a single big space battle. I think, and I might be wrong, the only time a phaser is fired is when Kirk needs to lock a door in the hospital. I don't think they had any other fighting going on, minus possibly Chekov trying to escape the naval ship.
The broader generally more fun versions of the crew we see on Voyage Home are the ones we see in the JJ movies.
The broader generally more fun versions of the crew we see on Voyage Home are the ones we see in the JJ movies.
No.
The broader generally more fun versions of the crew we see on Voyage Home are the ones we see in the JJ movies.
No.
Yes.
It's good to be disagreeing again, I feel we've been agreeing way to much recently ;D
The Voyage Home is GREAT.
In other news - the actress who plays Sylvia Tilly has revealed she is queer *** despite being married to the actor who played Andorian Ryn on the show. I always thought queer was a pejorative word.
Although Michael Stipe says he prefers being called queer and not Gay. I guess some people don't like it and others don't mind it ?
*** - her words
The Voyage Home is GREAT.LGBTQ? I think it's one of those things that's been "reclaimed."
In other news - the actress who plays Sylvia Tilly has revealed she is queer *** despite being married to the actor who played Andorian Ryn on the show. I always thought queer was a pejorative word.
Although Michael Stipe says he prefers being called queer and not Gay. I guess some people don't like it and others don't mind it ?
*** - her words
Of course I am late but have you all checked out Star Trek Fan Films. They can be a loot of fun!For the series, New Voyages never worked for me. I give them credit for what they accomplished, but neither the stories nor the acting were sufficient. Continues was actually perfectly decent. It looked alright, the stories were better, and the acting was a bit better. You could actually watch Kirk and Spock play chess and appreciate it for what it represented. The movies were always just terrible looking. Even nowadays, when they can shoot a great looking movie in their garage with iPhones, they still look terrible. And then there's Axanar, which suffered the exact opposite problem. It looked too good, thus creating an entirely different set of problems.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Trek_fan_productions
Of course I am late but have you all checked out Star Trek Fan Films. They can be a loot of fun!For the series, New Voyages never worked for me. I give them credit for what they accomplished, but neither the stories nor the acting were sufficient. Continues was actually perfectly decent. It looked alright, the stories were better, and the acting was a bit better. You could actually watch Kirk and Spock play chess and appreciate it for what it represented. The movies were always just terrible looking. Even nowadays, when they can shoot a great looking movie in their garage with iPhones, they still look terrible. And then there's Axanar, which suffered the exact opposite problem. It looked too good, thus creating an entirely different set of problems.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Trek_fan_productions
I have the same issue with all of them, though. All too often they rely on callbacks, and cameos from B players in the original series. And all of the B players are admirals now. Continues worked pretty well with original stories. At the same time they get Apollo to come back and basically re-do his episode, and it's pretty weak. The movies seemed to suffer even more from this, as you can't get it started unless you've got Tuvok, Admiral Rand, and Sulu's great granddaughter involved.
People always cite Ferris as one of his [Matthew Broderick's] good performances. And then can't name another.
Not surprising that I think this is exactly right. I don't dislike FB, but I do think it's a bit overrated. Wargames is what I think of when Broderick comes up. To this day I still offer to piss on spark plugs for people when things are going wrong, but nobody's taken me up on it yet.
One of my favorite 80s movies, then, and now: WarGames. I am not a Ferris Bueller fan. I somehow missed it and only saw it much later, when it just felt like one of those silly 80s movies. To me, WarGames is the quintessential Broderick performance.
In my all-time rankings of military officers/NCOs in film, Beringer is my favorite General.Don't know if you're into Breaking Bad/Better Call Saul (you should be), but I just discovered last night that General Berringer (or Uncle Bob, if you're a few years older) played the rancher being evicted by Kim's client. They made him so old an haggard he was unrecognizable, though in retrospect the voice probably should have been a dead giveaway. He was only in three episodes, but he was great.
In my all-time rankings of military officers/NCOs in film, Beringer is my favorite General.Don't know if you're into Breaking Bad/Better Call Saul (you should be), but I just discovered last night that General Berringer (or Uncle Bob, if you're a few years older) played the rancher being evicted by Kim's client. They made him so old an haggard he was unrecognizable, though in retrospect the voice probably should have been a dead giveaway. He was only in three episodes, but he was great.
But I'll keep Prime for the 30 days incase I want to buy something and not pay postage :D :D
Star Trek : Lower Decks is on Amazon Prime today outside the US. It's all 10 episodes so they're gonna have a boat load of free trials that get cancelled after a day. :lolI really like the idea of it, and the animation doesn't bother me at all. The high speed, madcap style wasn't the problem isn't really my thing, but I didn't hate it or anything. My only problem was that I just didn't find it very funny. The jokes just fell flat, I thought.
I was dreading it but I saw the 1st episode and it was better than I was expecting. I thought it would be a third rate Family Guy clone but it was actually not bad.
I like the TNG setting as well.
Right - time to get my free trial so i can watch it ;D :D
Edit : Done ! But I'll keep Prime for the 30 days incase I want to buy something and not pay postage :D :D
Also the scene where Spock and Bones face their pain was actually really well done. I love that Spock acknowledged that he needed his pain and did not choose to give it up. I thought that was a great moment.
Final Frontier definitely deserves it's reputation way more than Into Darkness or Nemesis...
Also the scene where Spock and Bones face their pain was actually really well done. I love that Spock acknowledged that he needed his pain and did not choose to give it up. I thought that was a great moment.
Long time since I've seen the film but I'm pretty sure it's Kirk that doesn't give up his pain isn't it.
Final Frontier isn't as bad as its reputation.
"So human"
Yeah, that was painful. And it's been a while, so Spock may also have said something about needing his pain, but I think what soupy is talking about is the scene where Sybok wants to take away Kirk's pain and Kirk argues with him and refuses the procedure. That was the scene that came to mind for me as well; Kirk's scene. Maybe it was mass hallucination.
It's been a long time since I've seen it but I really like The Final Frontier.
I think even Shatner admitted it was a great but failed experiment.
So I've enjoyed Star Trek....but judging from the comments in this thread I'm not nearly as ST educated as a few of you. I started with TNG which I loved......then watched and enjoyed 'Enterprise'.....seen all the movies old and new.....and have seen the first two seasons of 'Discovery'.....need to get to S3 as I really dig that show as well.
My question is....is Deep Space 9 or Voyager worth the time investment?
Yes. Very much so.
DS9 is the best of the series IMO.
Avery Brooks acting in DS9 " The Emissary " is really bad though.I agree, but it's pretty typical for him. And the writing is worse than his acting, honestly. The premise was great, but there was just too much clumsy exposition.
I still have to binge watch DS9. a few years ago I binge watched all of VOY and then ENT. I just need to START DS9 and then i'm sure i'll end up finishing it.The first three seasons are actually pretty good. They just suffer from not being about the Dominion. Since we know how good it will become it's pretty underwhelming out of the gate. They also hadn't really hammered out the characters yet. Dax in particular didn't really click until midway through S2, and it was the end of S2 when Garak really became a character.
Since we know how good it will become it's pretty underwhelming out of the gate.
One of the things i'm glad Trek mostly dropped for good after TNG S3 isTwo things to remember. One, it was 1987. Attitudes towards women were very different. Since the TNG crew were essentially post-human, the aliens portrayed modern humanity and viewing women as pretty things you want to fuck wasn't shameful as it is now. The other thing is that Roddenberry was pervy as all getout. They were constantly having to scrub his hyper-sexualized story lines out. If you noticed a change in S3 that was pretty understandable as that's when he was mostly gone from the production.
* Alien beams aboard Enterprise
" Greetings i'm captain Pic..."
Alien : " SHOW ME ALL THE WOMEN ".
S1 of TNG is terrible for it. There's that one episode where Riker and Worf are just walking around and Riker flat out asks Worf is he likes sex.
DS9
TNG/TOS
STD
ENT
VOY
PICARD
DS9
TNG/TOS
STD
ENT
VOY
PICARD
To be consistent, shouldn't Discovery be abbreviated DIS?
Either of those would be better than Disco.
Either of those would be better than Disco.
Discos dead man.
DS9
TNG/TOS
STD
ENT
VOY
PICARD
To be consistent, shouldn't Discovery be abbreviated DIS?
DIS just doesn’t seem as potentially infections. I see STD going more viral. Just catchier.
Oh look it's Eddie Izzard. Doesn't SHE look different.
Oh look it's Eddie Izzard. Doesn't SHE look different.
Eddie is a transvestite, not a transsexual. And he's fucking awesome.
If you're gonna be a homophobe, at least get your fucking shit straight.
Oh look it's Eddie Izzard. Doesn't SHE look different.
Eddie is a transvestite, not a transsexual. And he's fucking awesome.
If you're gonna be a homophobe, at least get your fucking shit straight.
Actually, and IN NO WAY is this post defending Kotow's extremely rude post, but Eddie currently identifies as gender-fluid and goes by she/her pronouns. It's a relatively new revelation though, so you might not have known.
There's a whole lot more going on in TUC. TWoK is pretty straightforward. It's a revenge story, we already know the players, and we can fill in a lot of it ourselves. TUC is a political thriller. There's a ton of content that needs to be shown to make it work. Still, it didn't feel rushed to me. I thought it was paced surprisingly well given how much is going on. To me it just didn't look as good. TUC was nearly 10 years after Khan, and the special effects had improved immeasurably, but Khan just looks better to me. TUC looks almost like television, while TWoK looks like classic cinema. I suppose they were already a few years into TNG, so they were probably borrowing a lot of the same technique.
Nevertheless, I agree with Adami. Second best, and the only one that even comes close to Khan.
And I still love "not me you idiot! Him!" Partly because that was what he came up with, and partly because it actually worked. Gotta love it when Kirk wins.
Well, he risked his own life to definitively save the high chancellor's. He exposed a conspiracy that included people on his own side. He's got proof that the Klingon's own military brass were behind the murder he's accused of committing. Plus there's the whole "we need their help to live" component. I'm pretty sure he's kind of off the hook for the assassination at that point.There's a whole lot more going on in TUC. TWoK is pretty straightforward. It's a revenge story, we already know the players, and we can fill in a lot of it ourselves. TUC is a political thriller. There's a ton of content that needs to be shown to make it work. Still, it didn't feel rushed to me. I thought it was paced surprisingly well given how much is going on. To me it just didn't look as good. TUC was nearly 10 years after Khan, and the special effects had improved immeasurably, but Khan just looks better to me. TUC looks almost like television, while TWoK looks like classic cinema. I suppose they were already a few years into TNG, so they were probably borrowing a lot of the same technique.
Nevertheless, I agree with Adami. Second best, and the only one that even comes close to Khan.
And I still love "not me you idiot! Him!" Partly because that was what he came up with, and partly because it actually worked. Gotta love it when Kirk wins.
When I said it feels rushed I meant in the production and writing - not the pacing.
Like - when Kirk shows up at the end - he's wanted for murder essentially.
He just says " Your father called the future the undiscovered country - some people can be scared of change "
Then everyone applauds and thats that and hes not wanted anymore.
Thats the whole film really.
And for the record I wasn't being 'a homophobe' - I was just pointing out Eddie's recent revelation in an - albeit clumsy - lighthearted fashion.
The trouble with text is it's hard to convey.
Apologies if it seemed that way. :-*
Well in that scene - he just shows up right at the last second - saves the chancellor and Gorkon's daughter is like " cool - forget everything " - just instantly.
She didn't know in that moment about Valeris or the Vulcans. Then Kirk suddenly forgives all Klingons for David's death.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L0G_qfAsVl4
Visited this place twice since it’s just across the bridge from my home in Vermont. The bridge is absolutely incredible, 100% accurate. My Instagram profile is a photo of me in the Captain’s Chair 🖖.
They're completely fine compared to
Code Of Honor
Justice ( Wesley crushes a flower )
Angel One
They're completely fine compared to
Code Of Honor
Justice ( Wesley crushes a flower )
Angel One
They're completely fine compared to
Code Of Honor
Justice ( Wesley crushes a flower )
Angel One
Been watching season 1 of TNG and it's not great. However, it does have some pretty good moments. Where No One Has Gone Before is a solid episode, very classic Trek in tone, but well executed and intriguing. I just finished the one where the Ferengi screw with Picard's head with his old ship. Not a bad episode actually. They made the Ferengi way less dumb and silly and gave them a bit more character, also Stewart's acting really sells it.
Now, when an episode like Justice is a bit more difficult. First off, it's a terrible episode, but I did think it had SOME points of merit that just didn't work in the final product. The philosophical discussions about the justice system and interfering with the prime directing COULD have been good, but sadly the script was just so terrible...SO terrible...and the acting was atrocious that none of the potential points of interest managed to help what is sadly an inexcusably awful episode.
Let's see how it keeps going!
Seems it flew under the news radar a bit, and didn't see it mentioned here... not sure if worthy of its own thread. Christopher Plummer passed away. Congrats on a stellar career.
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/c/c7/General_Chang.JPG)
What a shock - pure hatred in a Star Trek thread ;D
It's nowhere near Big Bang theory levels of awful.
TBBT is literally
" Hello "
" Hello "
Laugh track : HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAA
So I just watched S4E2 of DS9. The Visitor. Really well done. I don't remember ever seeing it before now. It did kind of kick me in the gut a little, since my father died when I was 18.The Visitor isn't my favorite episode, it's a little too heavy to just randomly throw on, but it probably is the single best thing they did. The first time I saw that it was more than a little kick to the gut. Tony Todd was great and Avery Brooks, surprisingly, nailed it.
It's from a Police Academy film - although I'm not sure which one, at a guess I'd say 3 or 4.
Several of the Police Academy regulars have died now. So a long planned 8th film probably won't happen.
Hightower. Tackleberry. Lassard. Hooks.
(also because i'm kotoboy or something - inb4 someone tells me that "four people is not several lol")
Edit : Also Red Letter Media said that in Film School - they used the Police Academy series as an example of a franchise that makes less and less money with each iteration
then when it no longer makes a profit (7) - they stop.
What would be the difference? Even if they reused Picard, Riker, and the gang, they'd still just be generic action characters.I would hope that any such Star Trek would not become a generic sci-fi action show.
What would be the difference? Even if they reused Picard, Riker, and the gang, they'd still just be generic action characters.
Karl Urban is PERFECT as Bones. Anton Yelchin was great as Chekov (RIP). I'm ambivalent about Pegg but i'm ambivalent about him anyway.
Telling fans to "fuck off" when they guessed Benedict was Khan was a huge no-no for me.
Karl Urban is PERFECT as Bones. Anton Yelchin was great as Chekov (RIP). I'm ambivalent about Pegg but i'm ambivalent about him anyway.
Telling fans to "fuck off" when they guessed Benedict was Khan was a huge no-no for me.
Pegg and Frost are only good when Edgar Wright is directing.
Run Fatboy Run was just OK and Paul was cack.
Apparently Edgar is writing Baby Driver 2 and he has a new horror movie out this year :)
I've loved everything Edgar has done so far : Spaced, Shaun. Fuzz, Worlds End. Scott Pilgrim. Baby Driver.
Pegg and Frost are only good when Edgar Wright is directing.
Run Fatboy Run was just OK and Paul was cack.
Apparently Edgar is writing Baby Driver 2 and he has a new horror movie out this year :)
I've loved everything Edgar has done so far : Spaced, Shaun. Fuzz, Worlds End. Scott Pilgrim. Baby Driver.
I agree about the dream team of Frost, Pegg and Wright. Though I actually did enjoy Run Fatboy Run. It wasn't anywhere near the movies by the big 3 but i really enjoyed it. I actually need to see Baby Driver. Not sure why I haven't yet. Gotta get on that.
Enterprise season 3 was surprisingly good, to be honest!
All the plot threads introduced throughout the season really came together at the end!
Onto season 4...
In his first appearance they should deep-fake him so that he looks like he did in 1990, and then he takes one look at Picard and says "egads, you look ancient," and then have him change to look as old as Stewart.
Given how lazy I see the writing for these things to be, anyone else think Q will just snap and make Picard human again?
Q is a odd one for me. John played the part really well - but the whole omnipresent God powers (with a child like arrogance) just feel out of place.
Q is a odd one for me. John played the part really well - but the whole omnipresent God powers (with a child like arrogance) just feel out of place.
In a fictional outer space show ?
SNW needs to be basically The Original Series but made in the 21st Century. Episodic. Bright. Fun. No Torture. Or Swearing JUST CAUSE.
Q is a odd one for me. John played the part really well - but the whole omnipresent God powers (with a child like arrogance) just feel out of place.
In a fictional outer space show ?
Personally I think so. The power level of the Q are generally out of kilter with the rest of the universe we see.
Q is a odd one for me. John played the part really well - but the whole omnipresent God powers (with a child like arrogance) just feel out of place.
In a fictional outer space show ?
Personally I think so. The power level of the Q are generally out of kilter with the rest of the universe we see.
DSC series 3 was the best so far. The trailer for S4 has yet another universe threatening threat and
looks like more action over story. We shall see. I wish we got more stand alone episodes.
DSC series 3 was the best so far.
DSC series 3 was the best so far.
Personally think Season 2 was the best by some way. Season 3 had huge potential and started well enough but the Burn resolution and the Emerald Chain villains were really lackluster - the finale was just plain bad.
Did you see that the actor who played Borg Hugh in TNG had to leave twitter cause he tweeted something really positive like
" I love all my brothers and sisters! "
And got inundated with angry tweets from people saying shit like " UM EXCUSE ME THERE ARE MORE THAN TWO GENDERS "
and he was like " Thats it - I was just trying to be positive and as usual people prefer to spread hate. Goodbye "
When will this pathetic cult of being TRIGGERFENDED finally fuckin die ?
Darmok and Jalad at Lunch
(https://i.imgur.com/dzrE3sq.jpg)
Did you see that the actor who played Borg Hugh in TNG had to leave twitter cause he tweeted something really positive like
" I love all my brothers and sisters! "
And got inundated with angry tweets from people saying shit like " UM EXCUSE ME THERE ARE MORE THAN TWO GENDERS "
and he was like " Thats it - I was just trying to be positive and as usual people prefer to spread hate. Goodbye "
When will this pathetic cult of being TRIGGERFENDED finally fuckin die ?
When they stop forcing 2 year olds to switch genders?
Christ’s sake. Maybe take that stuff somewhere else?Definitely. And the sad part is that there were so many ST episodes dealing with gender issues that could have been used as a segue. "So I was watching that TNG episode where Riker falls in love with the creepy androgynous alien, and it got me thinking. . ." :lol
I like that SNW is episodic so they don't have to do OMG UNIVERSE ENDING THREAT STAY TUNED.
I like that SNW is episodic so they don't have to do OMG UNIVERSE ENDING THREAT STAY TUNED.
The Voyage HAM :rollin
Ham is such a funny word as it is.
The Final Fondue. The Undiscovered Bounty.
Talking of Lower Decks, I didn't get on with it when it came out but have gone back to it and am currently really enjoying it. Very Trek.
Talking of Lower Decks, I didn't get on with it when it came out but have gone back to it and am currently really enjoying it. Very Trek.
I've heard this a lot. I really didn't like the first 3 episodes much at all, does it really get a lot better?
Talking of Lower Decks, I didn't get on with it when it came out but have gone back to it and am currently really enjoying it. Very Trek.
I've heard this a lot. I really didn't like the first 3 episodes much at all, does it really get a lot better?
Hmm, I wouldn't say it's that different... I've only just watched episode 5. Maybe I just got used to it. Maybe I got desperate for something to watch. Dunno. But enjoying it.
Talking of Lower Decks, I didn't get on with it when it came out but have gone back to it and am currently really enjoying it. Very Trek.
I've heard this a lot. I really didn't like the first 3 episodes much at all, does it really get a lot better?
Hmm, I wouldn't say it's that different... I've only just watched episode 5. Maybe I just got used to it. Maybe I got desperate for something to watch. Dunno. But enjoying it.
I don't really understand why it need to be a comedy, the wackiness doesn't really fit Star Trek for me. But I'll give it another go - The Orville got better once it started to drop the silliness.
Talking of Lower Decks, I didn't get on with it when it came out but have gone back to it and am currently really enjoying it. Very Trek.
I've heard this a lot. I really didn't like the first 3 episodes much at all, does it really get a lot better?
Hmm, I wouldn't say it's that different... I've only just watched episode 5. Maybe I just got used to it. Maybe I got desperate for something to watch. Dunno. But enjoying it.
I don't really understand why it need to be a comedy, the wackiness doesn't really fit Star Trek for me. But I'll give it another go - The Orville got better once it started to drop the silliness.
I've not seen The Orville. LD isn't that funny, really. Some chuckles, sure, but doesn't have me rolling. Just feels like a lighter Trek at this point.
On a kind off related/unrelated note 'Lower Decks' is the best episode of TNG season 7 I think?That's not saying much, but it's a solid episode. Certainly one of a small handful of really good ones from an otherwise miserable season.
Vedek Winn I could live without, but if I hate her that much, she was doing her job, too.Kai/Vedek Winn is one of the best characters on the show. She truly got the soap opera/professional wrestler concept that being hated on television is just as good as being loved. More importantly, she really evolves throughout the show. As hateful as she is, her griefs aren't without merit. She really was one of the most faithful, and the prophets totally shit on her. And of course she redeems herself at the end. The writing and her portrayal are excellent, both on a episodic level, and in the overall big picture. She's great in 40 minute increments and great over the course of 7 years.
Winn is so hateful. The actor always nails it.
I liked how Minister Jaro (Langella) and Vedek Winn were clearly allies, and you think "Oh shit, those two working together will be a real problem" but then their alliance unraveled over certain philosophical differences. Both seemed to truly have the best interests of Bajor in mind, which is how they'd gotten as far together as they had. But Winn was willing to cross some lines that Jaro wasn't, and vice versa, and things came apart for them.I think their parting of ways was strictly political, as opposed to philosophical. She simply saw the winds turning and jumped ship. Keep in mind that Jaro didn't know of the Kardasian involvement, and would have been just as pissed off about it as she, or anybody else would have been. They were still philosophically aligned. He simply got played and she knew that she needed to distance herself from him. At the end of the day Winn has three prominent traits. She's a true believer, but you probably haven't seen that part of her yet. She's manipulative as all get out, and you have seen that. Above all else, she's ambitious. You're seeing that now. Because of the first part, her ambition isn't entirely a bad thing. As you said, the best bad guys know truly believe in what they're doing, and she no doubt believes that attaining power in any way possible is what the prophets want of her.
The best villains are the ones who are intelligent and believe that what they're doing is right. If you're lucky, their means are ultimately their undoing, as former allies go "hey, wait... I never said we'd go that far". If you're not lucky, well, the bad guys win.
I've said it before and I'll say it again, DS9 works because of the ancillary characters. With the possible exception of Dax, Quark, and Odo, none of the main cast are particularly interesting. It's Garak, Winn, Weyoun, Dukat, and Damar that make it all worth watching.
I agree with the notion that DS9 has a really strong cast all around. I think the only weak link for me was Kira and Bashir in the first couple of seasons. They were so over the top that it was hard to take them seriously but after season 3 or so they really mellowed out.
This is the thing that I think gets missed when judging the new shows: the great shows (and DS9 is my favourite) took a pretty long time to get great.
I had an opposite reaction to disco. I thought season 1 and 2 we're great and season 3 took a drastic dip in quality
It's a good point. They should have got it by now.I had an opposite reaction to disco. I thought season 1 and 2 we're great and season 3 took a drastic dip in quality
Me too, pretty much. Season 2 was my favourite but did have some things that bothered me. Session 3 was pretty tiresome in the main. I soooo want it to be good. Season 4 could be make or break for me.
Picard - Just finished this last night so I haven't dug back through the comments on it to get the overall consensus....but for me, it was a massive let down. Rudimentary writing and storyline with one predictable moment after another. It was actually kind of sad to watch them taint the legacy of Cpt. Picard. The entire Data 'send off' in the final episode ruined that legacy of sacrifice as well for me. There was no need for that other than fan service. All in all it was an 'ok' show....I'm sure I'll watch S2 when it comes out....but in my eyes it wasn't a very good show.It was a terrible show with two great aspects. Jeri Ryan looks great now. Better than she did in VOY. And Juan Solo with all of the Emergency Holograms was a great idea. I'll watch the next season for those two things, but I'm pretty sure it'll suck.
Picard - Just finished this last night so I haven't dug back through the comments on it to get the overall consensus....but for me, it was a massive let down. Rudimentary writing and storyline with one predictable moment after another. It was actually kind of sad to watch them taint the legacy of Cpt. Picard. The entire Data 'send off' in the final episode ruined that legacy of sacrifice as well for me. There was no need for that other than fan service. All in all it was an 'ok' show....I'm sure I'll watch S2 when it comes out....but in my eyes it wasn't a very good show.It was a terrible show with two great aspects. Jeri Ryan looks great now. Better than she did in VOY. And Juan Solo with all of the Emergency Holograms was a great idea. I'll watch the next season for those two things, but I'm pretty sure it'll suck.
The only thing I have hope for in season 2 is Marc Bernardin being a writer. He’s a smart dude that knows how to tell a good story. Unsure how much influence he will actually have but he’s good to have on the team.
I'd argue that Picard had the second best first season of any Star Trek show (behind TOS).
The Riker/Troi scenes were incredibly well done.
Yeah it's so odd. It made me feel icky for some reason. Picard is dead. He's just a copy of himself.
My remarks aren't as comprehensive when I watch a whole bunch of episodes over a couple of days, but here goes what I remember:You're in a fairly awful stretch of S4. The good news is that it'll turn the corner pretty soon. The second half of S4 has some great stuff in it.
Watch the list continue to grow and you'll come to hate Spiner as much as the rest of us. Really, anytime he has to step outside of Data he's pretty bad.
While certainly not universal, I think it's generally accepted round these parts that Spiner is very limited. He is Data; he essentially created the character and because of what we know Data to now be, you're right that nobody could do it better. Like most Trek actors, though, asked to step outside of the roles they created they don't do so well. In his case, several of them are quite honestly awful. Hell, the fact that Kowtowboy and I actually agree on this point is really quite telling. :lolQuoteWatch the list continue to grow and you'll come to hate Spiner as much as the rest of us. Really, anytime he has to step outside of Data he's pretty bad.
:tdwn Who is the rest of us? Spiner did such an excellent job carrying an otherwise ridiculous role, turning them into dynamic characters. No one could be a better Data and his related characters. Anyone who hates him and his roles outside of Data, dare yourself to do better. What would you have done better? All hail Spiner :metal
I'm gonna agree and disagree with Bart on different points. I agree that Spiner was largely terrible outside of Data (within ST, he was fantastic in Out to Sea). But I disagree with the assumption that people are unsurprisingly good when they had to essentially create the character. We're not talking about how good Sirtis was as Troi or how good Gates was as Crusher or even Wil as Crusher. They had as much control and originality over those characters as Spiner did and they were (mostly) not very good. So I want to give Spiner more credit for how good he was as Data and not dismiss it as "he created the character and thus could only be good at it."I think that might have something to do with the fact that they were both weak characters. I think there's a recurring theme of distinctly average, if not bad actors being brilliant at portraying the actors they create. Spiner is just one. Shatner. Avery Brooks. Dorn was terrible. I thought Siddig was perfect as Bashir, but he might have been the worst of the lot. Just watch any mirror universe episode and you're in for some truly awful acting. The reality is that, so long as you get to keep at it for a while, creating a character will always be easier than portraying a different one, and that often hides a lack of real talent.
Whilst I think every character he did outside of Data ( including Data with emotion chip. same mannerisms and whiny voice ).. was pretty much the exact same...Absolutely. I'm through being your puppet!
I generally agree with your assessment of these. Where we differ is Brothers, which I thought was terrible. Data is a great character, and Spiner is great at making him work, but Lore, and all of the other characters Spiner plays are just awful. I guess you've only seen him play 3 "Soong" characters. Watch the list continue to grow and you'll come to hate Spiner as much as the rest of us. Really, anytime he has to step outside of Data he's pretty bad.
:D I love seeing it when it's supposed to be the same actor twice and the one you see from behind is so obviously a completely different actor.Maybe, but "not me you idiot, him" was one of Kirk's finest moments, simply because it worked. :lol
That or it's really bad compositing . Thomas and Will Riker looked ok but Star trek VI looked terrible
" Shoot him he's the one! " Pointing nowhere near Kirk. TNG probably had a bigger budget than The Undiscovered Country.
Yes but you could argue that eyepatch guy knew exactly which one was Martia and wanted to kill her anyway and gloat to Kirk.
Could you?
Could you?
Well I said it so It must be wrong.
Could you?
Well I said it so It must be wrong.
Datas 'emotion chip' felt like the writers noticing they were coming to the end of the show and panicking as the realised they had done absolutely nothing with Data becoming more human. The emotion chip was a lazy device just so they could say they revolved his arc.The emotion chip in the series was a great idea, in that they explored it but never really used it (save for Descent, which is very likely the dumbest thing they ever did in the entire franchise). It was the movies where they felt they needed to turn him into something else, just as they did with the rest of the crew. He became a joke character, much like Scotty in the TOS movies. Movie TNG just couldn't stand to leave anything alone insofar as established characters go. And by giving Spiner an opportunity to essentially play a new character they demonstrated, yet again, how bad he is at it.
Datas 'emotion chip' felt like the writers noticing they were coming to the end of the show and panicking as the realised they had done absolutely nothing with Data becoming more human. The emotion chip was a lazy device just so they could say they revolved his arc.The emotion chip in the series was a great idea, in that they explored it but never really used it (save for Descent, which is very likely the dumbest thing they ever did in the entire franchise). It was the movies where they felt they needed to turn him into something else, just as they did with the rest of the crew. He became a joke character, much like Scotty in the TOS movies. Movie TNG just couldn't stand to leave anything alone insofar as established characters go. And by giving Spiner an opportunity to essentially play a new character they demonstrated, yet again, how bad he is at it.
I liked Insurrection better than most of their movies. The fact that it was a two-part episode is a big reason why. It still suffered from the same problem as the other movies, though. None of the characters were really the same from the series. Picard goes rogue. The crew all behave like teenagers. Data remains a clown. Like I said, they just can't leave well enough alone.Datas 'emotion chip' felt like the writers noticing they were coming to the end of the show and panicking as the realised they had done absolutely nothing with Data becoming more human. The emotion chip was a lazy device just so they could say they revolved his arc.The emotion chip in the series was a great idea, in that they explored it but never really used it (save for Descent, which is very likely the dumbest thing they ever did in the entire franchise). It was the movies where they felt they needed to turn him into something else, just as they did with the rest of the crew. He became a joke character, much like Scotty in the TOS movies. Movie TNG just couldn't stand to leave anything alone insofar as established characters go. And by giving Spiner an opportunity to essentially play a new character they demonstrated, yet again, how bad he is at it.
And yet when they did do one movie that was essentially not a movie but a fantastic two-part episode (Insurrection…and yes, that was an extremely popular criticism, that it felt too much like a great episode and not so great movie) people ragged on it non stop.
Full disclosure, that’s my favorite ST film for exactly the reasons everyone else hated it.
Do you realize that most of that behavior is explained in the plot line. The effects of the briar patch and all that…Of course I do. They just bothered to make an excuse for it this time. Still the same phenomenon.
Apart from Over acting Data - all the characters are essentially the same and the Enterprise looks GREAT.Right up until Troi crashes it into a planet. :lol
Datas 'emotion chip' felt like the writers noticing they were coming to the end of the show and panicking as the realised they had done absolutely nothing with Data becoming more human. The emotion chip was a lazy device just so they could say they revolved his arc.The emotion chip in the series was a great idea, in that they explored it but never really used it (save for Descent, which is very likely the dumbest thing they ever did in the entire franchise). It was the movies where they felt they needed to turn him into something else, just as they did with the rest of the crew. He became a joke character, much like Scotty in the TOS movies. Movie TNG just couldn't stand to leave anything alone insofar as established characters go. And by giving Spiner an opportunity to essentially play a new character they demonstrated, yet again, how bad he is at it.
And yet when they did do one movie that was essentially not a movie but a fantastic two-part episode (Insurrection…and yes, that was an extremely popular criticism, that it felt too much like a great episode and not so great movie) people ragged on it non stop.
Full disclosure, that’s my favorite ST film for exactly the reasons everyone else hated it.
All right, I'm all quarantined up on COVID and I'm watching at an accelerated rate, so I can't do justice to the episode by episode remarks thing. Shame, I had fun typing it up the last couple of posts.You're almost through the weak part of S4. The second half is considerably better. And yes, they're bluffing you.
Random thoughts though:
- I liked Reunion, shame Worf's hot half-human girlfriend was killed.
When Picard went to see K'mpec and the latter asked him to "arbitrate the struggle for power" over who leads the Klingon empire and Picard declines; K'mpec seems to find that answer unexpected or unwarranted for some reason. Picard looked like if it wasn't for diplomacy he would have said "Because your people are assholes and will spend hours yelling at me during normal conversations, it's what you do" :lol
- A lot of what I thought of Future Imperfect is similar to Remember Me. Again, I tried to figure out what's going on with Riker before the reveal, failed, then found their explanation too silly. The resolve made it obvious they just wanted to show me that alternate world of the Enterprise 16 years later, which is an interesting premise visually and would have been cool if the resolve -again- wasn't so silly and weakly written. It would have actually worked if they left at the whole "Romulan seeking secret Federation base location" deal.
It was cool to see Geordi without his VISOR, I don't think I've seen the actor's eyes before.
Hey things sure are different in the 24th century, but in the 21st; it used to be a kiss ass move to name your kid after your boss heh
- Final Mission, bye bye Wesley? are you bluffing TNG?! Good episode though, the kid did good.
The scenes in the cave were very reminiscent of some TOS stuff. While the stuff out in the desert looked beautiful IMO.
As bad as it may be I'm sure I'll still watch it. :lolI'll certainly watch the first couple of episodes. I probably won't want to stick with it, but most likely I will, for the two things about it that actually interest me. As bad as the show is, I do still enjoy Juan Solo and MILF Seven of Nine.
It's hardly an original storyline, I can think of several episodes from the various shows that have the go back in time to fix the future - and two of the film's. On the plus side quite often these are good episodes/films.The fish out of water trope tends to work very well in ST. CotEoF is about as good as Trek got. STIV is generally well liked by fans. VOY did it very well with Future's End. Even ENT and Carpenter Street made it work. Those weren't trying to be dark and edgy, though. Those came from typical Star Trek series and, Carpenter Street excepted, were still trying to keep with the generally light ST motif. The underlying problem is that Picard (series) is still trying to be something very different than Star Trek, and using a tried and proven formula isn't going to be enough to make it work. They'll find plenty of other ways to make it awful, disregarding the otherwise helpful plot device.
Yeah most of the "Oh God it's this one" episodes are in Seasons 1 - 3
Lower Decks still great fun.
I thought it kind of sucked, but I'd agree with you on that. If nothing else at least it understands what Star Trek is, rather than just phasers, Klingons, and a handful of popular characters (all of which are different every incarnation).Lower Decks still great fun.
I get laughed at in ST threads, but I honestly think it’s the best ST show on right now.
Lower Decks S1 was way more enjoyable than Disco and Picard S1.
:flame: Plus it has a great opening title sequence. The theme for Disco just sort of gives up and then plays the TOS theme.
But I don't really care about any of them too much. I'm going to wait til Picard S2 and Lower Decks S2 have finished their run then get a free month of Prime to binge watch them.
I might watch Disco as it happens. We shall see.
Maybe Star Trek Prodigy will be a touch more dramatic.
but I couldn't get into any of the Star Wars animated shows either.
Pretty good, thorough Retrospective on Star Trek Voyager, which seeing/remembering, once again reminded me how much I used to love Star Trek in the 90's.That was very good. I didn't always agree with him, but it was an excellent presentation, and he did justice to both the strengths and the flaws of the series.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h8lNTPXE6s4
Script finished.
Cast and Crew hired.
Locations scouted.
Sets and props all built.
Principal Photography.
Post production. / Sound mixing / Editing.
Whatever mastering is in the film world...
Promotion and release to cinemas.
All in 10 months.
Yeah I think 2,4 and 6 are the Big Three of the TOS movies.
If anything I think 1 is under rated.
Script finished.
Cast and Crew hired.
Locations scouted.
Sets and props all built.
Principal Photography.
Post production. / Sound mixing / Editing.
Whatever mastering is in the film world...
Promotion and release to cinemas.
All in 10 months.
If anything I think 1 is under rated and *isn't* just "LOL ITS SO BORING !!!!!!!!!11111"
I actually love the pacing.
How TF do people constantly make fun of The Motion Picture's pacing and not 2001 ? Or Blade Runner ?
How TF do people constantly make fun of The Motion Picture's pacing and not 2001 ? Or Blade Runner ?There were no prior iterations of 2001 or Blade Runner on film with which to compare those films. The pacing was the pacing, and is perfect for those films.
It's also the case that nobody watched 2001 for the story. Hell, nobody even knows what the story is. People watched it because it was an impressive bit of eye candy (and still is). While Blade Runner had a story and some decent characterizations, much like 2001 it was still about bringing people into a fascinating world they hadn't seen before. Again, it was more about the what you were seeing than the story you were watching.
ST was different in that regard. We wanted a Star Trek story (and IMO, got one). I think they also wanted some 2001 in there, though (and accomplished that, as well). What I don't get is the characters being unrecognizable. They were a bit more serious, but to me they all seemed pretty much the same, save for Spock who got rebooted in the interim.
Yeah, you're right. That's kind of what I was getting at with Blade Runner. It's about taking you someplace. I just don't think either are story-driven. And taking the viewer someplace is also what I think TMP was going for on some level.It's also the case that nobody watched 2001 for the story. Hell, nobody even knows what the story is. People watched it because it was an impressive bit of eye candy (and still is). While Blade Runner had a story and some decent characterizations, much like 2001 it was still about bringing people into a fascinating world they hadn't seen before. Again, it was more about the what you were seeing than the story you were watching.
ST was different in that regard. We wanted a Star Trek story (and IMO, got one). I think they also wanted some 2001 in there, though (and accomplished that, as well). What I don't get is the characters being unrecognizable. They were a bit more serious, but to me they all seemed pretty much the same, save for Spock who got rebooted in the interim.
I'm gonna disagree about 2001. It's definitely not just eye candy. While the "plot" is quite....odd....and convoluted, I'd say the movie is more about an experience, rather than just something pretty to look at. I'd also add that they got kind of ST characters on sedatives.
It's also the case that nobody watched 2001 for the story. Hell, nobody even knows what the story is. People watched it because it was an impressive bit of eye candy (and still is). While Blade Runner had a story and some decent characterizations, much like 2001 it was still about bringing people into a fascinating world they hadn't seen before. Again, it was more about the what you were seeing than the story you were watching.
ST was different in that regard. We wanted a Star Trek story (and IMO, got one). I think they also wanted some 2001 in there, though (and accomplished that, as well). What I don't get is the characters being unrecognizable. They were a bit more serious, but to me they all seemed pretty much the same, save for Spock who got rebooted in the interim.
I'm gonna disagree about 2001. It's definitely not just eye candy. While the "plot" is quite....odd....and convoluted, I'd say the movie is more about an experience, rather than just something pretty to look at. I'd also add that they got kind of ST characters on sedatives.
Also watched the Discovery S4 trailer earlier. Other than it looking beautiful I'm not feeling encouraged. I want it to be great but nothing about it made me go "Ooo". But we'll see.
Also watched the Discovery S4 trailer earlier. Other than it looking beautiful I'm not feeling encouraged. I want it to be great but nothing about it made me go "Ooo". But we'll see.
At least Saru was back, I was worried he'd been written out the show at the end of series 3.
Worst Trek character is probably Troi.
Worst Trek character is probably Troi.
I disagree, Harry Kim is the worst IMO.Ship's councilor Deanna Troi was pretty week. As a random, regularly occurring bimbo, Troi was alright. We can all name decent Troi-centric episodes. She brought the ensemble down as a whole, but she wasn't without her moment's.
But I feel the Voyager crew were bland.
Speaking of Voyager...
I don't know if anybody else caught on to this, but Robert Beltran is returning as Chakotay in the new ST: Prodigy animated series. Hopefully they can expand his character in the show, as he got the raw deal during Voyager. :lol
Kate Mulgrew is also confirmed to return as Janeway.
I don't know much about ST: Prodigy...
Yea I thought it was going to be a kids show.Definitely a kid's show. Produced for Nickelodeon, and it looks absolutely awful from an adult perspective. Seems Kurtzman is trying to flood the market with as much pseudo-Trek as he can dream up. In a few years there will probably be more Kurzman material than original.
DS9, amazingly, was all good characters, with the slight exception of Bashir.
DS9, amazingly, was all good characters, with the slight exception of Bashir.
Even Tam Elbrun was better than the hot garbage that was the DS9 characters.
That's a lot of "True Star trek Fans" stance.
It is for Red Letter Media. " We love Star trek " = " We love TNG everything else is shit ".
Well, since he's using a TNG character to bag on the rest of it, probably not. Tin Man was a crappy episode, and I didn't much like Tam Elbrun, but he actually was a pretty interesting character. I don't think I'd use him as the baseline for crappy characters in general.
DS9, amazingly, was all good characters, with the slight exception of Bashir.
Even Tam Elbrun was better than the hot garbage that was the DS9 characters.
Had to look him up. No memory of him at all. :biggrin:
What's your view? Am I sensing a TNG-is better-than-everything stance?
Exactly it's the same old crap.Maybe that's true of people who base their opinions solely on RLM, but then those people will never like anything, will they. RLM proves quite well that there's nothing you can't rag on successfully, and that there are people out there who will gladly change their tune because of it. No matter what your favorite movie is, RLM can make it look tragically flawed. I'm not sure why people actually pay attention to them.
Everything comes around. In 20 years if there's a completely new show / cast / crew / showrunner etc.
People will be going " Man this is SHIT. Discovery was not so bad after all " then it will be super trendy to love Discovery.
Just likes it now super trendy to love the Star Wars prequels cause people don't like the new Star Wars.
:lolpalm:
RLM also said that when reviewing The Rise Of Skywalker " NO. The new films being bad does not somehow make the prequels good. "...
I just watched the DS9 episode "Defiant" and have a question.Pretty sure that was just Tom Riker's way of ending a difficult situation. He didn't really have a plan for dealing with chance encounters, and he didn't know O'Brien well enough to bluff his way through a social encounter. I thought it was actually pretty smooth, as O'Brien, an enlisted man, isn't going to press the issue with an officer. He politely excused himself and that was that.
Thomas Riker (the duplicate of Will Riker created by a transporter accident and introduced in TNG) arrives on Deep Space Nine. He presents himself as Will Riker, and he and Major Kira head over to the Defiant to check it out. O'Brien is on board doing some maintenance, and I was thinking "Ah yes, these two served on the Enterprise together for years." But it's not a happy reunion.
O'Brien looks up and sees Riker, says something, and Riker just looks at him and says "I have nothing to say to you." O'Brien leaves. He looks disappointed by Riker's reaction, but not really surprised. Obviously something happened between them, but I can't remember what it was. And remember that at this point we still think it's Will Riker. Was there some kind of problem when O'Brien left the Enterprise to serve on DS9? What was Riker referring to?
Was O Brien the guy that was transpo chief when Thomas Riker was created ?I thought Tom Riker was created by the ship he was serving on at the time. Enterprise just found him however many years later.
I just watched the DS9 episode "Defiant" and have a question.Pretty sure that was just Tom Riker's way of ending a difficult situation. He didn't really have a plan for dealing with chance encounters, and he didn't know O'Brien well enough to bluff his way through a social encounter. I thought it was actually pretty smooth, as O'Brien, an enlisted man, isn't going to press the issue with an officer. He politely excused himself and that was that.
Thomas Riker (the duplicate of Will Riker created by a transporter accident and introduced in TNG) arrives on Deep Space Nine. He presents himself as Will Riker, and he and Major Kira head over to the Defiant to check it out. O'Brien is on board doing some maintenance, and I was thinking "Ah yes, these two served on the Enterprise together for years." But it's not a happy reunion.
O'Brien looks up and sees Riker, says something, and Riker just looks at him and says "I have nothing to say to you." O'Brien leaves. He looks disappointed by Riker's reaction, but not really surprised. Obviously something happened between them, but I can't remember what it was. And remember that at this point we still think it's Will Riker. Was there some kind of problem when O'Brien left the Enterprise to serve on DS9? What was Riker referring to?
Probably confused the bejeezus out of O'Brien, though. :lol
I can't understand those people who HATE Discovery yet they keep watching it to make sure IT STILL SUCKS and everyone needs to know it does.Me neither.
DS9, amazingly, was all good characters, with the slight exception of Bashir.
Even Tam Elbrun was better than the hot garbage that was the DS9 characters.
Had to look him up. No memory of him at all. :biggrin:
What's your view? Am I sensing a TNG-is better-than-everything stance?
I've still never watched DS9 in full. But something just stops me from watching it. Dunno. Something about it becoming more of a one story show and really political and all that.Neither DS9 nor ENT were ever one story shows. People act like ENT S3 was nothing but Xindi, but in reality more than half of the episodes were completely unrelated, save for a throwaway line at the beginning along the lines of "we're following a lead on the Xindi super-weapon that's taking us into an uncharted region of space." Or, they have a story idea and they just tweak it so that the bad guys are Xindi instead of, say, Klingons or Nazis, but doesn't do anything to advance the story. I mean, was Carpenter Street a Xindi story or a standard ST time travel story?
Although I did Enjoy the entire Xindi arc of Enterprise.
One day I will watch it.
I've still never watched DS9 in full. But something just stops me from watching it. Dunno. Something about it becoming more of a one story show and really political and all that.
Although I did Enjoy the entire Xindi arc of Enterprise.
One day I will watch it.
The Phantom Menace and Attack of the Clones aren't just bad Star Wars films - they are actually shit and boring films, Revenge of the Sith is an improvement in just being plain bang average.
Pretty fuckin sad that I don't have enough time to come in and talk with y'll about the episodes I'm watching, I'm trying to keep mental notes but I'll probably forget it all hehYou don't need to watch them for the sake of Unification (good episode, BTW). You should watch them because for the most part they're quite entertaining. Since your main objection to them is [bizarrely] Khan, you won't have that problem again.
This, however, demanded that I take 5 minutes to roll by and ask about. So I'm at a season 5 episode called Unification. To my surprise I saw in the prologue that Spock is in this. If you recall I was turned off from the movie after Wrath of Khan and haven't seen any other remaining ones, so as far as I'm concerned Spock is dead, except I know he's not because I saw Into Darkness and Beyond. Well also cause the follow-up to Khan is laughably titled "The Search For Spock" :lol
So the question, do I need to go back and watch the rest of the.. TOS movies? is that what you call them?, anyway do I need to see them before carrying on Unification?
Discovery Season 4 starts next week - That completely caught me by surprise, I thought Picard 2 was coming first. Appariently the first episode is called 'Kobayashi Maru'.
I'm pleased to see Doug Jones (Saru) is still listed in the credits, I hope he is still is a main character, rather than a occasional appearance. I'm not so keen to see 'Grey' is on the credits though, I really didn't like (or understand) him at all.
And find some time to post about episodes. People watching these things for the first time is about the only thing worth a damn in this thread.
I'm pleased to see Doug Jones (Saru) is still listed in the credits, I hope he is still is a main character, rather than a occasional appearance. I'm not so keen to see 'Grey' is on the credits though, I really didn't like (or understand) him at all.
I'm all for inclusion OBVIOUSLY. It's Star Trek after all. But it's like - they've had zero LGBT characters in trek until Disco came along which was always odd to me - but now they're going a bit too far.
I don't think i've ever seen you say anything positive about Trek EVER...And if anyone does - here comes El Barto to explain why you're wrong... so yeah irony and all..."Ever," huh. Sounds pretty definitive to me. How bout a mere two sentences prior to that where I said the remaining TOS movies were "quite entertaining?" Or the sentence before that where I said Unification was a "good episode?"
Errr no...I'm speaking in general terms. If somebody asks if you're a positive or negative person you're almost certainly going to go with negative. With that in mind I think you only notice the negative things I have to say about ST, as evidenced by your quoting of a post where I say several favorable things about ST to point out that I never, ever say anything good about the franchise.
I'm almost never dissing Trek . I love TNG Voyager Enterprise and all 13 movies. I just don't like Insurrection as much as most people.
I even love Into Darkness and The Motion Picture. I like Disco despite it's problems and i'm gonna reserve judgement on Picard until its 3rd season or so.
TNG S1 was terrible. And we all know how good that got.
People watching these things for the first time is about the only thing worth a damn in this thread.
True, but then it kinda begs the question: Can Founders in general emulate faces properly and it's just Odo who can't quite get it right? We've seen him turn into pieces of equipment, furniture, a drinking glass, sometimes apparently breaking the law of conservation of mass (if it even applies here) but he can't do a human face, something he's seen and studied for years?Founders can not only imitate humanoids perfectly, they can emulate specific people of any race. They're very good at it. Odo is simply not good at it. He does get better, but it takes him a few hundred years. Thinking back, the only time I recall him taking on the appearance of another person it was one of the other founders, so not much of a stretch.
Basically this is just what Odo looks like, and in the beginning there was a justification/explanation for it that has become a bit specious over time and inconsistent with what we've seen and how things have developed. It's probably one of those things that they really would rather the viewers just not think about.
Honestly, his suckiness at being a changeling is a minor mystery, at best. If you really want to get into the weeds try figuring out his combadge.
Also, I don't know if you've picked up on it or not, it's not obvious, but Garak is Scorpio (https://villains.fandom.com/wiki/Scorpio_(Dirty_Harry)). Not only is it fitting, but it kind of makes you see him differently.
It's funny when people have relationships with Odo - but only cause he APPEARS humanoid.
They're basically in love with a puddle.
A little off topic but I want this so bad https://mycherrytree.com/collections/frontpage/products/star-trek-picard-diskotrek-borg-cube-record-playerThat is pretty amazing.
You don't need to watch them for the sake of Unification (good episode, BTW). You should watch them because for the most part they're quite entertaining. Since your main objection to them is [bizarrely] Khan, you won't have that problem again.
I don't think i've ever seen you say anything positive about Trek EVER...And if anyone does - here comes El Barto to explain why you're wrong... so yeah irony and all...
20 minutes into The Search For Spock and :hefdaddy CHRISTOPHER LLOYD AS A KLINGON COMMANDER!!!! SIGN ME THE FUCK UP haha
And just one year away from Back To The Future, that's prime Lloyd right there. Perfecting casting for a Klingon!
Remind me, is this the same Enterprise from the TOS days? Or is it a ship that's modeled after it so Star Fleet called it Enterprise?
At the time, reactions were much more mixed than yours. Lloyd was known primarily for his role on the TV show "Taxi" as the guy who is either perpetually stoned, or had done so many drugs in his past that his mind was literally blown away. It was hard to say, and ultimately didn't much matter.
When he was fighting with Kirk and shouted "Give me Genesis!!" the theater was laughing because it was so absurd. Jim Ignatowski in Klingon makeup fighting James MF Kirk. His voice was exactly the same, and in an odd way, his mannerisms as well.
Maybe a little less.
NCC-1701 is the same ship. It had a major overhaul refit at the start of Star Trek: the Motion Picture. When they get a new ship it gets a new letter designation NCC-1701-A appears in IV, V, and VI. The ship on TNG is the Enterprise-D (NCC-1701-D).
Until you pointed that out, I hadn't really noticed that 1701-B, the Excelsior class version, would have been built and launched only a few years after 1701-A. Looks like they got 7 years out of it. According to MA, it was a refit of a different Constitution class starship redesignated Enterprise. Interesting idea, and goes to show how much they loved them some Kirk. While the rest of Starfleet was moving forward, Excelsior was already in service, they threw together another ship (to replace the one he stole and blew up :lol), so that he could wind down his career in his own ship.Remind me, is this the same Enterprise from the TOS days? Or is it a ship that's modeled after it so Star Fleet called it Enterprise?
NCC-1701 is the same ship. It had a major overhaul refit at the start of Star Trek: the Motion Picture. When they get a new ship it gets a new letter designation NCC-1701-A appears in IV, V, and VI. The ship on TNG is the Enterprise-D (NCC-1701-D).
I'm aware of Taxi and I've been wanting to see it cause I also like Danny Devito, but I just can't stand the Independence Day guy at all.
To me he is, and only ever was, Doc. Brown. But I think he makes a good Klingon in a TOS context, he definitely wouldn't work with the TNG Klingons at all haha
I'm nearing the end of Season 3 of my DS9 watch, and a few episodes ago there was a brief scene with someone named Leeta who is pretty and has large breasts. She lamely approached Dr. Bashir about having a (fake) cough for a few days. Bashir gets a lewd smile and offers to examine her right away. That's all we see of her.Let's just say that the costume did her a huge favor.
I just watched "Facets", the episode where Jadzia Dax gets to "meet" her previous hosts via their memories being extracted telepathically and placed temporarily into others, who then act as "hosts" so Jadzia can actually converse host-to-host with Curzon, Tobin, and the others, not through the Dax symbiont. Sure, okay, whatever.
But it starts with the volunteers for this little project, people that Jadzia has chosen because she's closest to them, and for some reason Leeta is one of them. Apparently she's gone from a walk-on to regular cast and one of Jadzia's closest friends in the span of a few episodes, without even appearing on screen during that time. Well she is pretty, and has large breasts, but come on. Can Star Trek casting be any more ridiculous? (Wait, don't answer that. This was before Voyager axed Kes for Seven of Nine.)
The Voyage Home was fun, and meant to be a fun conclusion to the ST II-III-IV movie trilogy. Lots of great moments in that one.
I even like the new Saavik better than the original. I just think Robin Curtis makes a better Vulcan than Kirstie Alley.
Come to think of it, I also have no idea why Kirk, an admiral, is still in a captain's chair of a starship
As far as The Search For Spock goes, that movie has a remarkable abundance of plot holes, but it's emotional drive -with Spock at it's center- sufficiently compensates. I know they wanted David's death to hit me harder but I had totally forgotten that Kirk had a son in the first place when I started watching this movie, that's on me though. Come to think of it, I also have no idea why Kirk, an admiral, is still in a captain's chair of a starship.. I need to read some recaps on the first two movies.
Bird of prey uncloaking next to that small ship = the stuff nightmare are made of, it's magnitude is Lovecraftian as fuck.I'm not sure I recall the scene exactly, but I damn sure remember the music.
He is in the captain's chair because he hijacked the ship. Which probably shouldn't be as easy as it turned out to be.
Robin Curtis was certainly snootier. I didn't think Kirstie Alley was a bad Vulcan, but if you want Vulcan arrogance, Robin Curtis was definitely the way to go. That said, Kirstie was smokin hot back then, even with the ears and the eyebrows. She gets the nod from me.
My DS9 watch continues.The Visitor was absolutely gut wrenching. It's one that I rarely watch, gotta be in the right kind of mood, but it's also quite possibly the best episode of the series. I rank it easily in the top three, alongside the also legendary Pale Moonlight. Between Kern and the older Jake, Tony Todd was one of the unsung heroes of the franchise.
Now into Season 4, which from what I've heard, is where things really take off. Worf is now on board, due to and following the events of the two-hour season premier. I have to admit, I'm kinduv intrigued and drawn in by the more serial approach, but I prefer less political bullshit with my science fiction. The Cardassians were this series' main bad guys, but now in the face a mutual and greater threat from The Dominion, we are uneasy allies of sorts. Meanwhile, the Klingons, as boneheaded as ever (pun possibly intended), have basically declared war on both the Cardassians and the Federation, all because they suspect that the Cardassians have been infiltrated by The Dominion and we (the UFP) weren't going to help them attack the Cards without at least some kind of proof. Great, so the Klingons at war with literally everybody, including The Dominion. And they (the Klingons) thought this was a good idea?
Then in the next episode, we take a breather with "The Visitor" which I'd heard was a great episode, one of the best. It was, absolutely. A very unusual episode, one with something of a built-in reset button (and which probably should have had more longer-lasting impact on Sisko), but it's about the journey, and it was a great journey. Tony Todd as the older Jake Sisko was excellent, and I was moved to tears more than once. Maybe because my own father passed away earlier this year, but probably not, since I'm actually a softie when it comes to that. Losing someone, then getting them back for a few minutes, only to lose them again, repeat, that's gotta suck. Didn't have much to do with the Dominion arc, but I'm fine with that. I don't want every single episode to be part of a grand story; I actually like when they figure out how to fit "regular" episodes in, and this was a great episode, so cool, I'll take it.
Not that anyone cares - but Disco S4 wont be on Netflix in the UK. ::)
Apparently it'll wait until Paramount Plus launches next year.
I'm really not bothered. I'm sure i'll see it eventually.
Then in the next episode, we take a breather with "The Visitor" which I'd heard was a great episode, one of the best. It was, absolutely. A very unusual episode, one with something of a built-in reset button (and which probably should have had more longer-lasting impact on Sisko), but it's about the journey, and it was a great journey. Tony Todd as the older Jake Sisko was excellent, and I was moved to tears more than once. Maybe because my own father passed away earlier this year, but probably not, since I'm actually a softie when it comes to that. Losing someone, then getting them back for a few minutes, only to lose them again, repeat, that's gotta suck. Didn't have much to do with the Dominion arc, but I'm fine with that. I don't want every single episode to be part of a grand story; I actually like when they figure out how to fit "regular" episodes in, and this was a great episode, so cool, I'll take it.Spending a few more minutes pondering The Visitor. For one, does Sisko even remember the experience? I thought it was kind of vague on that topic, and if so, you're right, it should have affected him more than it did.
Not that anyone cares - but Disco S4 wont be on Netflix in the UK. ::)
Apparently it'll wait until Paramount Plus launches next year.
I'm really not bothered. I'm sure i'll see it eventually.
" Voyager - J is so stupid. Why is it so flat ? Why are the nacelles just floating ? Programable Matter? What the hell is that? w..."
• It's fiction
• It's the 33rd century
• 1,000 years ago an iPhone would have been IMPOSSIBLE
• It's supposed to be entertainment.
• If you dont like it dont watch it.
RE : The Scene where Kirk is cooking eggs in Generations.Jesus Fuck.
I was thinking about this scene - and I may be reading too much into it. But Kirk has 2 eggs and breaks one.
Thus the saying you cant make an omelette without breaking any eggs.
Kirk dies helping Picard - who lives. They can't stop Soran without one of them dying.
At least i'm not a bald fat cunt.
At least i'm not a bald fat cunt.Well, if you didn't want to post here anymore, all you had to do was ask.
At least i'm not a bald fat cunt.
Nice. I loved DS9 to bits. So much great stuff in there.
Anyone seen any Disco S4? No idea when we'll be getting it in the UK at present.
I'm nearing the end of Season 3 of my DS9 watch, and a few episodes ago there was a brief scene with someone named Leeta who is pretty and has large breasts. She lamely approached Dr. Bashir about having a (fake) cough for a few days. Bashir gets a lewd smile and offers to examine her right away. That's all we see of her.
Nice. I loved DS9 to bits. So much great stuff in there.
Anyone seen any Disco S4? No idea when we'll be getting it in the UK at present.
Same boat. Looks like we have to wait for Paramount + (or whatever it's called) to arrive in the UK, which is currently defined as 'early next year'. To be honest I can't face yet another streaming service - I'm already on Netflix, Prime and Disney+. I'm also guessing Prime will lose Picard and Lower Decks?
Nice. I loved DS9 to bits. So much great stuff in there.
Anyone seen any Disco S4? No idea when we'll be getting it in the UK at present.
Same boat. Looks like we have to wait for Paramount + (or whatever it's called) to arrive in the UK, which is currently defined as 'early next year'. To be honest I can't face yet another streaming service - I'm already on Netflix, Prime and Disney+. I'm also guessing Prime will lose Picard and Lower Decks?
I feel much the same. If that strike season is there I'll sign up for a month but i won't keep another one on the go at all times.
Meanwhile, Orbert is watching Deep Space Nine and is into Season FourAll good stuff. Seasons 4 and 5 are kind of the calm before the storm. There's plenty of Dominion intrigue, and some set piece episodes, but they've still got plenty of time for basic sci-fi stuff. It's basically the cold war half of the Dominion war.
Holy Shit, this show is really firing on all cylinders right now. Even when they revisit classic or clichéed sci-fi themes and tropes, they're doing them well and coming up with reasonably interesting and entertaining stories.
Hippocratic Oath - O'Brien and Bashir crash land and are captured by some Jem'Hadar who happen to be trying to beat their addiction to ketrecel white, which is basically what enslaves them to the Founders. As the episode title suggests, there are disagreements about whether the priority is helping the Jem'Hadar or getting the hell out of there.
Indiscretion - Gul Dukat has a half-Bajoran daughter? Dukat and Kira spend some quality time together? Kasidy Yates might be finding a place to stay on DS9? Well, two out of three ain't bad.
Rejoined - Torias Dax, one of Jadzia Dax's previous hosts, died in an accident. His widow was another Trill, who eventually died and whose symbiont, Kahn, is now Lenara Kahn. Trill law forbids Dax and Kahn getting back together, or acknowledging each other at all, but hey, they were in love then, and they still are, doesn't matter if they're both in new hosts now. It gets complicated. Apparently "the kiss" was controversial at the time (Lenara is female, and so is Jadzia) but in true sci-fi fashion, no one on the show has any problem with that; it's that symbionts aren't supposed to reassociate. Pretty cool exploration into Trill culture.
Starship Down - The title comes from the movie "Gray Lady Down" which had to do with submarines sneaking around in the depths, trying to find and kill each other. It was revisited in the TOS episode "Balance of Terror" and the Mutara Nebula scene in "STII: The Wrath of Kahn". Here, it's The Defiant and two Jem'Hadar ships. They come up with a few new takes on a classic scenario. Also, Worf learns not to be such an asshole to the guys in Engineering who are just trying to, you know, save everyone's lives.
Little Green Men - Remember when the TOS Enterprise visited Earth back in the 20th century? Wouldn't it be wacky if the Ferengi did kinda the same thing? Better yet, it all plays out like in "Escape from the Planet of the Apes" complete with sympathetic scientists and sterotypical military asshats. Yeah, I know, it's sounds horrible, but I found it to be pretty fun.
The writing has been tight. The stories have been new like only Star Trek can do, old and worn, and everything in between, but always entertaining or at least interesting. I'm really digging this.
I'm nearing the end of Season 3 of my DS9 watch, and a few episodes ago there was a brief scene with someone named Leeta who is pretty and has large breasts. She lamely approached Dr. Bashir about having a (fake) cough for a few days. Bashir gets a lewd smile and offers to examine her right away. That's all we see of her.
I've actually met Chase Masterton who played Leeta the Dabo Girl. It was at a Trek convention thingy.
Nice. I loved DS9 to bits. So much great stuff in there.
Anyone seen any Disco S4? No idea when we'll be getting it in the UK at present.
Same boat. Looks like we have to wait for Paramount + (or whatever it's called) to arrive in the UK, which is currently defined as 'early next year'. To be honest I can't face yet another streaming service - I'm already on Netflix, Prime and Disney+. I'm also guessing Prime will lose Picard and Lower Decks?
I feel much the same. If that strike season is there I'll sign up for a month but i won't keep another one on the go at all times.
I know someone at work who has a hacked firestick, basically it's now a kodi box - he can watch pretty much whatever he wants, including all the new film releases. I used to be dead against this kind off stuff - but I'm tiring of all these streaming site now and i'm toying with getting my firestick done too. :yarr
Yea….it’s not good. Not insultingly bad like season 1 or Picard but not good and just blah.
I did face palm a bit at how they dealt with the reaction to the Deus Ex Machina of Picard.
"Looks like someone tried to use this technology with someone named....picard?"
"So now everyone has an immortal perfect synth body and death is no longer a concern?"
"Oh no, turns out it was a bad idea so everyone just moved on....NEXT!"
This show is hot garbage. I'm struggling to enjoy it or even make sense of wtf is happening half the time. I hear all of these people watching it with captions on so they know what is happening. :tdwn
Since there's somebody watching through for the first time, you might want to spoiler-proof that.
My problem with the Ezri thing was that they didn't have time to do it right. It was rushed because the whole thing was coming to an end. The idea of her being all screwed in the head because she wasn't prepared was a great one. I'd have like to see a bit more of her as a basket-case before really coming to terms with it all.
I just reached the end of Season 1 of Discovery, and just when I thought they were kinda getting good (not consistently good, but getting there), they pull a turd out of a hat and call it the Season 1 Finale. Seriously, WTF? I've heard that Season 2 is probably the best, then it goes downhill again from there, and right now I'm wondering if it's worth it to stick around. From many accounts, Season 4 is the most WTF of all.
I can forgive them for the tech and Klingons, it wasn't like the TOS fell inline with the canon of the future series. Also in season 2 of Disco they sort of bring back the old tech with the re-introduction of the Enterprise.
I think Discovery has a lot of potential, but they completely painted themselves into a corner by placing it 10 years before Kirk and Company yet insisting that it takes place in the same timeline. The graphics and tech are light years ahead of TOS. They've introduced new species and concepts that are nowhere in TOS. The species that do exist (Klingons) look nothing like they do in TOS. And sometimes the writing is just plain dumb.There are actually 3 timelines, rather than two. The original, the Bad Robot, and the Bad Robot alternate created in ST2009. When they say "prime" timeline or universe they simply mean that it's not the one altered by that Nero guy where Vulcan was destroyed. While they sort of imply that it's the original timeline, it's not, both for legal and creative reasons.
I'll probably start Season 2, but I'm also working through DS9, and it's amazing how a show 20+ years older is so much better than any of the "new" shows.
Watch season 2 then let it go, is my advice. If only to get some red hot Captain Pike action.
Fair enough. However, from what I've read, they are aiming at a classic Trek type of show for Strange New Worlds. They're clearly NOT aiming for that with Discovery.
So that leaves us with what, a bunch of stories set in a "similar" universe where most people and things are the same as what we've been watching for 50 years, except for whatever's different, in which case it's just different and we should just deal with it? Why the fuck even bother?Because they're raking in money and the reality is that most people won't even care, and the people who do already hate it anyway. It's basically a reboot. They just never wanted to call it that because they wanted the original Trekkies to come aboard with it. Some did, but mostly they're catering to a newer audience.
:lol
Discovery seems to be trying to do new things, be a different kind of Trek, etc. And there's nothing wrong with that, but the show still has to be good. I don't care if it's edgy or dark or has the first Trek F-bomb or the first Trek gay marriage or the first Trek naked Klingon boobs, I care if the show is good. If it ain't good, I ain't watching.
(naked Trill boobs, maybe)
Maybe I'm just being dense, but how can a show set well before TOS have a ship named after a captain that won't be born for hundreds of years?
Also, Memory Alpha is really becoming a train wreck at this point. I'm not sure what choice there was in the matter, but having competing and conflicting universes really makes the thing hard to follow. Case in point, the number of Constitution class starships built, which seems to be greater in the past than it was in TOS.
Haven't been watching Season 4 of disco because it's not available in the UK right now, but I'm keeping an eye on the reviews of the individual episodes. The latest episode 'Stormy Weather' seems to being hailed of something of a classic and Discos best episode yet.
Maybe I'm just being dense, but how can a show set well before TOS have a ship named after a captain that won't be born for hundreds of years?
Also, Memory Alpha is really becoming a train wreck at this point. I'm not sure what choice there was in the matter, but having competing and conflicting universes really makes the thing hard to follow. Case in point, the number of Constitution class starships built, which seems to be greater in the past than it was in TOS.
It’s just extremely tired and unrealistic that Michael HAS to be the one with the speech or heroics. If anything she should face a court martial every other episode. Not to mention it’s baffling the level of loyalty the crew shows her given she consistently bucks the system and is rogue in her decision making.
Anyway…..I can’t imagine this gets renewed for another season. It’s a bummer because I’d really love to see a new, good, Star Trek show.
Haven't been watching Season 4 of disco because it's not available in the UK right now, but I'm keeping an eye on the reviews of the individual episodes. The latest episode 'Stormy Weather' seems to being hailed of something of a classic and Discos best episode yet.
Definitely not. Super boring and just quite....poor. Yes, it's more "sci fi" than anything else, but it's still just not very compelling or well written.
It’s just extremely tired and unrealistic that Michael HAS to be the one with the speech or heroics. If anything she should face a court martial every other episode. Not to mention it’s baffling the level of loyalty the crew shows her given she consistently bucks the system and is rogue in her decision making.
Anyway…..I can’t imagine this gets renewed for another season. It’s a bummer because I’d really love to see a new, good, Star Trek show.
This season especially just seems....so uncompelling. I mean....I get the plot of an artificial.......something....that will destroy the universe....or whatever, but what about the characters? The only thing they seem to want us to care about thus far is the computer having emotions, which is being handled in SUCH a casual and silly way that I can't take it seriously. I mean even when whatever his name is lost his planet, they just don't seem to be paying it much attention other than in the background. It's just a bunch of 2 dimensional characters trying to solve a meaningless mystery since they've done this EVERY season thus far. We know they will figure out the blah blah blah and save the whatever and Michael will be the only person who can do it and they will learn something about friendship and family. It's just hard to care.
Haven't been watching Season 4 of disco because it's not available in the UK right now, but I'm keeping an eye on the reviews of the individual episodes. The latest episode 'Stormy Weather' seems to being hailed of something of a classic and Discos best episode yet.
Definitely not. Super boring and just quite....poor. Yes, it's more "sci fi" than anything else, but it's still just not very compelling or well written.
Fair enough. I've not seen it so was only going off the reviews, maybe it's being overrated as it was apparently written by one of the BSG remake writers.
Yeah, I get that. I just figured they went back the next season so they could do something different. Like maybe go back to prehistoric Earth and muck about with history or something. I assumed they'd do a different nonsensical universe each season. I didn't assume a show set before ST would basically turn into a show set in the 29th century.Maybe I'm just being dense, but how can a show set well before TOS have a ship named after a captain that won't be born for hundreds of years?
Also, Memory Alpha is really becoming a train wreck at this point. I'm not sure what choice there was in the matter, but having competing and conflicting universes really makes the thing hard to follow. Case in point, the number of Constitution class starships built, which seems to be greater in the past than it was in TOS.
They time jumped in season 2, 1000 years into the future.
Haven't been watching Season 4 of disco because it's not available in the UK right now, but I'm keeping an eye on the reviews of the individual episodes. The latest episode 'Stormy Weather' seems to being hailed of something of a classic and Discos best episode yet.
Definitely not. Super boring and just quite....poor. Yes, it's more "sci fi" than anything else, but it's still just not very compelling or well written.
Fair enough. I've not seen it so was only going off the reviews, maybe it's being overrated as it was apparently written by one of the BSG remake writers.
The episode in question wasn't awful, just boring. I can see the BSG stuff, but what made BSG work wasn't just the sci-fi tech talk, it was the setting, the characters, the overall story, etc. This episode had all the sci-fi tech talk of BSG but none of the other stuff. It honestly felt 2 hours long despite being regular length. Ah well.
Some of the Q episodes are pretty weak, but plenty are very good. I can't call him a shit actor or a chit character on the basis of his better episodes. Tapestry is one of my favorites of the series, and AGT was certainly the ultimate way to wrap things up. I don't like him in the comedy episodes, Q-Pid and Q and the Grey are terrible, but when he's being sinister he's very good. He also shows excellent development throughout the series (which they burn in the subsequent series).
I'm enjoying season 5 so much that I'm seriously considering starting it over after I'm done, I know it's ridiculous.At this point, Deep Space 9 had just started. There were three seasons where they overlap. An argument could be made that you should be watching both right now, but that would be a helluva undertaking. Knowing what the rest of us know now, you'll be better off getting right into DS9 when you wrap up TNG, though.
I'm enjoying season 5 so much that I'm seriously considering starting it over after I'm done, I know it's ridiculous.At this point, Deep Space 9 had just started. There were three seasons where they overlap. An argument could be made that you should be watching both right now, but that would be a helluva undertaking. Knowing what the rest of us know now, you'll be better off getting right into DS9 when you wrap up TNG, though.
Also, I guess that means you're through with O'Brien. His farewell scene was in DS9, but he should be out of TNG for good. And for what it's worth, his Everyman nature works great in DS9. He's part of the main cast there and the show wouldn't be the same without him. Something that may help make him more likeable is to consider how he fits into the Starfleet universe. He's a career enlisted man. He's surrounded by all of these people who went to the Academy hoping to be a starship captain some day, making first contact and battling ethical conundrums. O'Brien just wants to work 9-5 and go home to his family. He kind of bridges the gap between Federation idealism and normal, real life people. He's a total outlier.
As for the actors/characters, in ST series I always found the lines blurred so much that they're hard to separate. The reality is that Shatner, Nimoy, Stewart, and plenty of others you've never heard of define the characters they create. Shatner is Kirk. Stewart is Picard. Whether they're good actors or not they work because the characters they portray posses the same qualities their acting brings to it. Spiner is a terrible actor, but he was brilliant with Data because he portrayed him in a way that was natural for him. He played him to his own strengths, which is what they all do. (His lack of talent comes into focus seeing him play 25 other Soong type characters.) To this point, Sirtis and McFadden didn't have to blow their way to the top (TNG was hardly the Everest of acting gigs in 1987, BTW). They were simply naturals at being the whiny/milquetoast characters Roddenberry was looking for.
Also, Wil Wheaton is actually fairly charismatic. After being the most despised character in ST for quite some time (until Neelix came along), he's quietly made a career out of just being a pretty cool dude.
I just checked the dates though, I'm not there just yet, latest TNG episode I've seen aired on May 4th, 1992. DS9 pilot aired on January 4th, 1993, which barely lines up with season 6 episode 12 of TNG.I'll be damned. I thought there was a whole lot more overlap than that. I guess Worf not showing up on DS9 until S4 threw me, as well as DS9 and VOY both having not quite 3 years of overlap. Looking at the episodes, though, DS9 would have begun right after the 2-parter Chain of Command, which makes perfect sense.
Yeah, I get that. I just figured they went back the next season so they could do something different. Like maybe go back to prehistoric Earth and muck about with history or something. I assumed they'd do a different nonsensical universe each season. I didn't assume a show set before ST would basically turn into a show set in the 29th century.
Yeah, I get that. I just figured they went back the next season so they could do something different. Like maybe go back to prehistoric Earth and muck about with history or something. I assumed they'd do a different nonsensical universe each season. I didn't assume a show set before ST would basically turn into a show set in the 29th century.
The original plan for the show was an anthology series where each subsequent season would be set in a later time period. But that was a couple of show-runners ago, and they seem to have just decided to skip to the end.
Instead we got.......this.
I'd say it all starts with the writing. While a better actress could've brought bad writing to better life, it's still just poor story telling. Michael isn't very good, I agree, but I blame the writing for all of this.
And I think Saru is actually well done. Though I'm a fan of Doug Jones.
Patrick Stewart is a phenomenal actor, and even he couldn't save his own show. The writing for modern Trek is just bad. I wish it weren't, but it just really is. With some exceptions.
Riker: One survivor. It's a Borg. Male, adolescent. He's badly hurt.
Data: Sir, there is no indication of other Borg activity within sensor range.
Picard: Away team, prepare to return to the ship.
Me: Yep, go, go, go.
Crusher: Captain, we can't
Me: What.. what "we can't"?
Crusher: Leave him here. He won't survive.
Riker: I think the Captain understands that.
Crusher: I don't.
Me: Fuck you!
Riker: The Borg usually collect their dead.
Crusher: He's not dead.
Me: *face-palm*
Riker: The transmission that we intercepted was probably a homing signal. We have to assume they're on their way.
Crusher: Let me at least stabilise his condition, give him a chance of surviving until they get here.
Me: Bitch you gonna get everybody kiiiiiiiillleeed!!
Picard: Your concern is noted, Doctor, but any intervention on our part would alert the Borg to our having been here.
Me: Thank you sir!
Crusher: I'm afraid we've turned that corner already.
Me: No, we haven't!!
Worf: Kill it now. Make it appear that it died in the crash. Leave no evidence that we were ever here.
Me: What the Klingon said.
Picard: Security measures must be taken before we beam it on board.
Me: God damn it..
Let me tell you something. When that kid's big brothers come looking for him, they're not going to stop until they find him. And then they're going to come looking for us, and they will destroy us. And they will not do any of the soul-searching that you are apparently doing right now. - Guinan to LaForge
Guinan: Resistance is futile..
Borg: Resistance is futile.
Guinan: It isn't. My people resisted when the Borg came to assimilate us. Some of us survived.
Borg: Resistance is not futile?
Guinan: No. But thanks to you, there are very few of us left. We're scattered throughout the galaxy. We don't even have a home any more.
Borg: What you are saying is that you are lonely.
Guinan: What?
Borg: You have no others. You have no home. We are also lonely.
Guinan: If you're going to use this person..
Picard: It's not a person, damn it, it's a Borg!
Guinan: If you are going to use this person to destroy his race, you should at least look him in the eye once before you do it. Because I am not sure he is still a Borg.
Picard: Because it's been given a name by a member of my crew doesn't mean it's not a Borg. Because it's young doesn't mean that it's innocent. It is what it is, and in spite of efforts to turn it into some kind of pet I will not alter my plans.
Picard: But you are Borg.
Borg: No. I am Hugh.
For shits and giggles, if this was a modern 10 episode TV season I'd make it as:Yeah, you and I have starkly different opinions on ST. :lol
1. Redemption (1.5 hrs season premiere)
2. Silicon Avatar
3. Conundrum
4. Ethics
5. The Outcast
6. Cause & Effect
7. The First Duty
8. The Perfect Mate
9. I, Borg
10. The Inner Light
It would be interesting to find out how Hugh factors in at the next Borg encounter, really looking forward to that, I really hope they don't abandon that story.Be careful what you wish for.
QuoteIt would be interesting to find out how Hugh factors in at the next Borg encounter, really looking forward to that, I really hope they don't abandon that story.Be careful what you wish for.
Be sure to put the most worthless person you know in charge on your way out the door.QuoteIt would be interesting to find out how Hugh factors in at the next Borg encounter, really looking forward to that, I really hope they don't abandon that story.Be careful what you wish for.
Yea....prepare for a real descent in quality.
Alright, I'll leave now.
But Alex Kurtzman is already in charge.Huh. I wonder which one has more experience making Star Trek suck? :lol
Just read that S3 of PICARD has been halted due to four dozen positive covid cases between cast and crew. The surprising thing to me is that they were filming S3 already? Guess with Stewarts age they want to bank as much Cpt. Picard as possible.
Just read that S3 of PICARD has been halted due to four dozen positive covid cases between cast and crew. The surprising thing to me is that they were filming S3 already? Guess with Stewarts age they want to bank as much Cpt. Picard as possible.
Yea, that took me by surprise as well. I was like "They're still filming season 2? I guess it's just some....oh it's season 3!"
Clearly the people running the show are just oblivious as to what is going on. I can't imagine a season of Trek as poorly received as Picard season 1 was and now they've gone ahead with season 3 without even seeing the feedback to season 2?
Just read that S3 of PICARD has been halted due to four dozen positive covid cases between cast and crew. The surprising thing to me is that they were filming S3 already? Guess with Stewarts age they want to bank as much Cpt. Picard as possible.
I have two explanations (aside from GMD's notion that they just want to get as much from PS as they can before he kicks off). One is that there's overlap between S2 and S3. Kind of like a two-part episode. It just makes sense to shoot a lot of it together. The other is that they know people with still watch it, both because of Stewart, and because it's got some commonalities with the Star Trek universe. Here is a thread full of people who ostensibly like Star Trek. We all come here to discuss it. I haven't seen anybody here defend STD S4. From what I gather it's a total shit show. Yet I haven't seen anybody give up on it. People are still watching it just to talk about how awful it is. I doubt the people at whatever streaming network it is really care why you guys watch it. You do and that's what matters. There's a floor to PIC viewership. There will always be X number of people who will watch it no matter what. So long as revenue from X is greater than production costs Y, you keep making it. Not to mention that combining two productions lowers Y.
I have two explanations (aside from GMD's notion that they just want to get as much from PS as they can before he kicks off). One is that there's overlap between S2 and S3. Kind of like a two-part episode. It just makes sense to shoot a lot of it together. The other is that they know people with still watch it, both because of Stewart, and because it's got some commonalities with the Star Trek universe. Here is a thread full of people who ostensibly like Star Trek. We all come here to discuss it. I haven't seen anybody here defend STD S4. From what I gather it's a total shit show. Yet I haven't seen anybody give up on it. People are still watching it just to talk about how awful it is. I doubt the people at whatever streaming network it is really care why you guys watch it. You do and that's what matters. There's a floor to PIC viewership. There will always be X number of people who will watch it no matter what. So long as revenue from X is greater than production costs Y, you keep making it. Not to mention that combining two productions lowers Y.
I haven't seen anybody here defend STD S4. From what I gather it's a total shit show. Yet I haven't seen anybody give up on it. People are still watching it just to talk about how awful it is.
Well, it sounds like they've profited from you not cancelling for over a year. In any case, we really have no idea how the ins and outs of producing, selling, and broadcasting/streaming a series like this work. You subscribing to the service is certainly part of it, but lots of corporate entities are paying lots of other corporate entities here. My hunch is that it's not your $5 or $10/mo that's their cash cow, though. The number of viewers is part of a balance sheet, and that number means money from other sources. I'm sure demographics fit into it. I suspect kickbacks from Netflix and cable companies do, as well. From what I gather, there's also advertizing revenue from the $5 package. Suffice it to say, viewership probably matters far more than just the direct monthly fees.I have two explanations (aside from GMD's notion that they just want to get as much from PS as they can before he kicks off). One is that there's overlap between S2 and S3. Kind of like a two-part episode. It just makes sense to shoot a lot of it together. The other is that they know people with still watch it, both because of Stewart, and because it's got some commonalities with the Star Trek universe. Here is a thread full of people who ostensibly like Star Trek. We all come here to discuss it. I haven't seen anybody here defend STD S4. From what I gather it's a total shit show. Yet I haven't seen anybody give up on it. People are still watching it just to talk about how awful it is. I doubt the people at whatever streaming network it is really care why you guys watch it. You do and that's what matters. There's a floor to PIC viewership. There will always be X number of people who will watch it no matter what. So long as revenue from X is greater than production costs Y, you keep making it. Not to mention that combining two productions lowers Y.
I'm not sure that's how it works on streaming though. I have had whatever service they're on for over a year now. Me watching Discovery or Picard now doesn't profit them at all since most people keep their subscriptions because they forget to cancel. They need more viewers, more people subscribing. So if Picard or Discovery are bringing in new people, then that's a reason to keep them going despite reviews/quality. Or else Netflix wouldn't cancel every show after 3-4 seasons.
I haven't seen anybody here defend STD S4. From what I gather it's a total shit show. Yet I haven't seen anybody give up on it. People are still watching it just to talk about how awful it is.
Totally. And I can't explain my desire to continue watching it. I generally don't like continually trashing shows and if it's bad I just stop watching. But, I think it's because I really 'want' to like it....I dig all things Star Trek.....and the potential Discovery has for being a really good show is there. It certainly has the $$$ behind it because the production is top notch.
Just read that S3 of PICARD has been halted due to four dozen positive covid cases between cast and crew. The surprising thing to me is that they were filming S3 already? Guess with Stewarts age they want to bank as much Cpt. Picard as possible.
Clearly the people running the show are just oblivious as to what is going on. I can't imagine a season of Trek as poorly received as Picard season 1 was and now they've gone ahead with season 3 without even seeing the feedback to season 2?
Just read that S3 of PICARD has been halted due to four dozen positive covid cases between cast and crew. The surprising thing to me is that they were filming S3 already? Guess with Stewarts age they want to bank as much Cpt. Picard as possible.
Clearly the people running the show are just oblivious as to what is going on. I can't imagine a season of Trek as poorly received as Picard season 1 was and now they've gone ahead with season 3 without even seeing the feedback to season 2?
The first season of TNG, Voyager, DS9, Enterprise, Disco and Lowe Decks were all generally panned as hard or harder.
Just read that S3 of PICARD has been halted due to four dozen positive covid cases between cast and crew. The surprising thing to me is that they were filming S3 already? Guess with Stewarts age they want to bank as much Cpt. Picard as possible.
Clearly the people running the show are just oblivious as to what is going on. I can't imagine a season of Trek as poorly received as Picard season 1 was and now they've gone ahead with season 3 without even seeing the feedback to season 2?
The first season of TNG, Voyager, DS9, Enterprise, Disco and Lowe Decks were all generally panned as hard or harder.
Just read that S3 of PICARD has been halted due to four dozen positive covid cases between cast and crew. The surprising thing to me is that they were filming S3 already? Guess with Stewarts age they want to bank as much Cpt. Picard as possible.
Clearly the people running the show are just oblivious as to what is going on. I can't imagine a season of Trek as poorly received as Picard season 1 was and now they've gone ahead with season 3 without even seeing the feedback to season 2?
The first season of TNG, Voyager, DS9, Enterprise, Disco and Lowe Decks were all generally panned as hard or harder.
Just read that S3 of PICARD has been halted due to four dozen positive covid cases between cast and crew. The surprising thing to me is that they were filming S3 already? Guess with Stewarts age they want to bank as much Cpt. Picard as possible.
Clearly the people running the show are just oblivious as to what is going on. I can't imagine a season of Trek as poorly received as Picard season 1 was and now they've gone ahead with season 3 without even seeing the feedback to season 2?
The first season of TNG, Voyager, DS9, Enterprise, Disco and Lowe Decks were all generally panned as hard or harder.
My fellow Trek fans and I all accepted TNG, DS9 and Voyager at the time, a few grumbles aside. We weren't exposed to any opinions of critics at the time. We didn't use the internet for that then and it wasn't a big launch here in the UK. I worked in a video store so we got them on VHS long before syndication brought them to TV channels. If i had to describe the mainstream reaction over here it would be indifference rather than disapproval.
Knocked out another few DS9 episodes. I think DS9 found the best balance between episodic storytelling and the overarcing story.Ironically, this is actually what ENT got right. Both shows remained episodic, despite massive story arcs. There were plenty of breaks from the action in DS9's last 3 seasons. "While patrolling behind the lines we came across something unusual. . ." and then you go off on standard ST sci-fi fair. ENT did the same thing: "while following a lead on the Xindi super-weapon we received a strange radio hail. . ." Just make a reference to the bigger story, and maybe change a line or two to reflect recent events, and you can make any episode you want.
To me, at least Enterprise felt like actual "Star Trek" and I would sooner rewatch it over any of the Kurtzman BS.
Lower Decks isn't really a prequel, is it? It's post-TNG.Lower Decks is animated, and to my knowledge, isn't it mostly for laughs, and not really propelling the narrative forward? Either way, I don't care. Likewise, I'm not going to watch Prodigy, either.
Discovery seasons 3-4 are set in the far future, so no longer a prequel, I guess.
Lower Decks isn't really a prequel, is it? It's post-TNG.Lower Decks is animated, and to my knowledge, isn't it mostly for laughs, and not really propelling the narrative forward? Either way, I don't care. Likewise, I'm not going to watch Prodigy, either.
Discovery seasons 3-4 are set in the far future, so no longer a prequel, I guess.
I know that Discovery is currently in the far future, but it is still a prequel series.
Lower Decks isn't really a prequel, is it? It's post-TNG.Lower Decks is animated, and to my knowledge, isn't it mostly for laughs, and not really propelling the narrative forward? Either way, I don't care. Likewise, I'm not going to watch Prodigy, either.
Discovery seasons 3-4 are set in the far future, so no longer a prequel, I guess.
I know that Discovery is currently in the far future, but it is still a prequel series.
And it’s only in the far future because of how poorly they planned the story and the poor execution of that story.
Lower Decks isn't really a prequel, is it? It's post-TNG.Lower Decks is animated, and to my knowledge, isn't it mostly for laughs, and not really propelling the narrative forward?
Discovery seasons 3-4 are set in the far future, so no longer a prequel, I guess.
That's part of my problem with modern Trek right there. Which show is the "current" timeline? That was never a problem before. Now it's too much to keep up with (for me and my taste).Lower Decks isn't really a prequel, is it? It's post-TNG.Lower Decks is animated, and to my knowledge, isn't it mostly for laughs, and not really propelling the narrative forward?
Discovery seasons 3-4 are set in the far future, so no longer a prequel, I guess.
Yes, it's more comedic, but it's a different ship with a different crew that has their own continuing narrative. There's some appearances/references of other characters from that Star Trek era, most notable being Captain Riker.
Lower Decks isn't really a prequel, is it? It's post-TNG.Lower Decks is animated, and to my knowledge, isn't it mostly for laughs, and not really propelling the narrative forward? Either way, I don't care. Likewise, I'm not going to watch Prodigy, either.
Discovery seasons 3-4 are set in the far future, so no longer a prequel, I guess.
I know that Discovery is currently in the far future, but it is still a prequel series.
And it’s only in the far future because of how poorly they planned the story and the poor execution of that story.
I would think it was planned.
And keep in mind that they already totally reversed direction once when the first 4 or so episodes didn't work the way they wanted.Lower Decks isn't really a prequel, is it? It's post-TNG.Lower Decks is animated, and to my knowledge, isn't it mostly for laughs, and not really propelling the narrative forward? Either way, I don't care. Likewise, I'm not going to watch Prodigy, either.
Discovery seasons 3-4 are set in the far future, so no longer a prequel, I guess.
I know that Discovery is currently in the far future, but it is still a prequel series.
And it’s only in the far future because of how poorly they planned the story and the poor execution of that story.
I would think it was planned.
I honestly don't think so Joe. I think they thought "It'd be cool to show a young Spock and Cpt. Pike! Let's do it......uh oh.....we're now right in the timeframe where ALL the other OT characters should be around also. How do we get away from that? I know.....lets throw them 1000 years into the future!!!! Were the show/story more well written I'd agree that they 'had' to have known where it was going but I don't think they did. At all.
Disco changed alot. In the first season it was dark, there was gore, swearing and even a Klingon nipple. Now it's all crying, hugging and melodrama!
Just read that S5 for Discovery has been ordered....so that's baffling. 'They' have to know what type of reception this show is getting?
Just read that S5 for Discovery has been ordered....so that's baffling. 'They' have to know what type of reception this show is getting?
All they care about is how many people are watching it. And, apparently, Star Trek Discovery is their #1 show (https://screenrant.com/star-trek-discovery-paramount-plus-viewership-details/).
They tried to do something different, but still Star Trek. But that takes more than just using the same names, same species. All the deviations, all the new stuff, has to be balanced by a clear adherence to the "rules", to what makes it Star Trek. It has to still "feel" like Star Trek.
The problem is that at this point, there have been so many iterations, so many different versions, that some people seem to think that as long as you call it The United Federation of Planets and have Klingons and Andorians, you can do whatever you want and say it's still Star Trek. And some people will eat it up. But I totally understand those who have trouble with it and really wish it was more like the Trek they know and love.
It's not a bad show as such and to be honest aside from The Expanse (which is now finished) there aren't many other top quality sci-fi shows out there right now.
It's not a bad show as such and to be honest aside from The Expanse (which is now finished) there aren't many other top quality sci-fi shows out there right now.
S1 was 'alright'......S2 was good and showed promise.......since then it's been a train wreck. I luv me some Sci-Fi and WANT to like this show. But it's comically bad at this point. I literally watch it only because of how bad it is. Like EB pointed out in an earlier conversation about this.....there truly must be something about how disliking a show fires off crap in your brain just like liking a show does. Because there's zero reason as far as storyline and/or acting to have continued watching this show. Yet I still do.
As I mentioned before, the end of 5 and the beginning of 6 is as good as it got for my money. And while it didn't really jump out at me at first, Rocks and Shoals is a top 3 episode for me.
Meanwhile, I'm still working through DS9. Season 5 just ended, Season 6 and the war with The Dominion has finally officially started.
Discovery resumed this week.
And GOD DAMN was it boring.
Discovery resumed this week.
And GOD DAMN was it boring.
Strange New Worlds starts in May, I think.
Dare I hope? Dare I?
Anson Mount was great as Capt. Pike. When that story arc on Discovery ended, I was bummed. I would watch a series with him as Pike and the Enterprise crew before Kirk & Co., and apparently this is what they decided to do, so I'm cautiously optimistic.
Discovery resumed this week.
And GOD DAMN was it boring.
Discovery resumed this week.
And GOD DAMN was it boring.
Yeah....I'm probably just going to stop commenting on it. It's my bad for continuing to watch but at this point I can't stop for some reason. Despite how horrible it is. IF there are folks here that like it....more power to you....but, I don't really have anything good to say about the show. Don't want to continue to rag on it because I could just stop watching it. I just can't believe how bad it is.
https://trekmovie.com/2022/02/15/breaking-star-trek-2023-movie-to-reunite-kelvin-crew-production-set-to-start-by-end-of-year/
https://trekmovie.com/2022/02/15/breaking-star-trek-2023-movie-to-reunite-kelvin-crew-production-set-to-start-by-end-of-year/
ST 2009 and ST Beyond were pretty good imo. And I do like the cast of Kelvin films. Karl Urban is a great McCoy and I think Pine and Quinto were pretty good Kirk and Spock.
I'll be interested to see what comes out of this.
The first five minutes or so were great. Perhaps as good as anything they've done in this series. As soon as the movie starts proper it quickly turns to garbage. I've long maintained that you can take the first two movies and combine them into a pretty good 90 minute flick. The characterizations are good enough for that. I'd simply add the first five of Beyond as a coda, ending it on a rather depressing note. Seems fitting.https://trekmovie.com/2022/02/15/breaking-star-trek-2023-movie-to-reunite-kelvin-crew-production-set-to-start-by-end-of-year/
ST 2009 and ST Beyond were pretty good imo. And I do like the cast of Kelvin films. Karl Urban is a great McCoy and I think Pine and Quinto were pretty good Kirk and Spock.
I'll be interested to see what comes out of this.
I think Beyond gets a little worse each viewing, and I didn't really like it much when I walked out of the cinema........it's just so forgettable. Be happy to see this crew get a better sendoff, really like 09 and Into Darkness.
https://trekmovie.com/2022/02/15/breaking-star-trek-2023-movie-to-reunite-kelvin-crew-production-set-to-start-by-end-of-year/Shit
really fun and exciting and help take ‘Star Trek’ into areas that you’ve just never seen before.
we have a bunch of other stories that we’re talking about that we think will be really exciting
No interest, but maybe a trailer or something will change my mind.I've never actually seen them as a crew. I think that's part of the problem. We never see them all actually working alongside each other. It's a whole bunch of different set pieces with various combinations of them. How much screen time did all of the principles get on the bridge at the same time? Between 3 films I'd be surprised if it were more than five minutes. In the right movie that's something that could easily change. The actors all get along well with each other, and they've been doing this for 13 years. It'd actually be cool to see them as an ensemble working together. I wouldn't expect it, though. Breaking them into smaller units creates more opportunities for "excitement."
I actually just don't like the crew....or the updated setting....or the stories....or the scripts....or the directing....or any of it.
I like the actors mostly, and even some of the individual characters, but I just can't get into them as a crew.
They caught the spirit of ToS really well. Keeping the playfulness of interactions of the 'trinity' of Kirk, Spock and McCoy and updated the B characters to flesh them out, the only thing lacking across all 3 of those films was a worthy villain for the cast to play against. But those films are just a heap of fun, and that should be at the heart of Trek - which is something I hope they bring back on Strange New Worlds.
They caught the spirit of ToS really well. Keeping the playfulness of interactions of the 'trinity' of Kirk, Spock and McCoy and updated the B characters to flesh them out, the only thing lacking across all 3 of those films was a worthy villain for the cast to play against. But those films are just a heap of fun, and that should be at the heart of Trek - which is something I hope they bring back on Strange New Worlds.
I get that, but I don't necessarily agree.
I think they attempted to catch they spirit of TOS. And they tried, on paper. But people being snarky with each other and lots of wink wink jokes between them doesn't make that spirit accurate. They changed Spock considerably from ToS, so trying to recreate the same trio with a vastly different Spock also kind of undercut things. Instead of the overly emotional Bones, the largely devoid of emotion and super logical Spock, and the middle ground human Kirk, you have the snarky Bones, the snarky Spock, and the snarky Kirk.
Also why does Star Trek need a villain? I get that it CAN work and it HAS worked, but so so rarely. Of all the ST films, how many had direct villains that were also great? Kahn, obviously. The Borg. Maybe Sauron or whatever, but he was more of a plot device. Star Trek is about the journey, the exploration, the mission etc. Not good guy shooting up/beating up/whatever bad guy. That's every other action movie, which was never what Star Trek was about.
I think a super telling thing in that article was that they arrived at their destination by means of focus group testing. That's about where Star Trek is and why it keeps going wrong.
We started Discovery season 4. Ugh. Apparently none of the showrunners read any of the online critiques of this show because they don't do a damned thing about the things that people pretty much unanimously hate. Long boring speeches, especially when there's supposedly a countdown going on. Michael Burnham is always right and always awesome and the only possible person who can save everyone, despite how many times she's wrong and not awesome and people die. Everything looks fucking fantastic, but doesn't make any goddamn sense. Ships that break up into small fragments, then reassemble, while flying? Why? Nothing is just okay; everything is either fucking horrible or super amazing sparkle cake. Melodrama! Angst! Pain! Death!
Still watching it because Mrs. Orbert and I are down to one show that we watch together, and this is it. I am watching a show that totally sucks ass in order to fulfill my husbandly duties. I'm not sure if that makes me a good person or just an idiot, but I feel stupider after every episode of STD, so probably both.
I really liked season 1 of Picard, so you can take this with a pinch of salt..........but I really enjoyed episode 1 of season 2, like really, really enjoyed.
I really liked season 1 of Picard, so you can take this with a pinch of salt..........but I really enjoyed episode 1 of season 2, like really, really enjoyed.
I’m a fan of one of the new writers and season 2 of discovery impressed me. I’ll watch Picard when I get some time but my expectations are low.
I haven’t hidden my thoughts that season 1 was maybe my lowest ranking Star Trek thing ever.
season 2 of discovery impressed me.
season 2 of discovery impressed me.
No question it was the best season. I had high hopes for the series going forward after S2 as it felt like it was gaining some traction. Then......
I really liked season 1 of Picard, so you can take this with a pinch of salt..........but I really enjoyed episode 1 of season 2, like really, really enjoyed.
I’m a fan of one of the new writers and season 2 of discovery impressed me. I’ll watch Picard when I get some time but my expectations are low.
I haven’t hidden my thoughts that season 1 was maybe my lowest ranking Star Trek thing ever.
Goldsman or Matalas?
anomaly in space that threatens the galaxy.
I really liked season 1 of Picard, so you can take this with a pinch of salt..........but I really enjoyed episode 1 of season 2, like really, really enjoyed.
I’m a fan of one of the new writers and season 2 of discovery impressed me. I’ll watch Picard when I get some time but my expectations are low.
I haven’t hidden my thoughts that season 1 was maybe my lowest ranking Star Trek thing ever.
Goldsman or Matalas?
Star Trek fans - enough fan service, we want new things!
Star Wars fans - enough with the new things we want fan service!
Also, I'm disliking the Picard episode more as I think about it.
Juan Solo - STOP FIRING! EVERYONE STOP FIRING!
Everyone - LET'S KEEP SHOOTING AND STUFF!
Literally no need for Guinan in that episode.
Is there really a Star Trek character named Juan Solo?
Is there really a Star Trek character named Juan Solo?
Oh no. I can’t remember the dudes name to save my life and he’s basically Han Solo but Spanish.
Is there really a Star Trek character named Juan Solo?
Oh no. I can’t remember the dudes name to save my life and he’s basically Han Solo but Spanish.
Ah, there was a great show...
Ah, there was a great show...
I never got the appeal.
Ah, there was a great show...
I never got the appeal.
You love Picard but don't like Firefly.
(https://media.giphy.com/media/n8SkNR77udWlG/giphy.gif)
Picard is the greatest TV show ever made and Firefly is pure garbage and needs to be destroyed
I'm gonna run that through a modern internet translator.Picard is the greatest TV show ever made and Firefly is pure garbage and needs to be destroyed
Ah, there was a great show...
I never got the appeal.
Ah, there was a great show...
I never got the appeal.
Well, if you thought Malcolm Reynolds was a Han Solo ripoff, I don't think you were paying much attention to the show. Other than both belonging to the "loveable rogue" character class, they are very different.
Other than that, they are definitely not alike in any way though lolAh, there was a great show...
I never got the appeal.
Well, if you thought Malcolm Reynolds was a Han Solo ripoff, I don't think you were paying much attention to the show. Other than both belonging to the "loveable rogue" character class, they are very different.
Both men are smugglers who have reckless streaks and have no problem conning their way to greater profit and personal gain at the expense of their own lives. They are egotistical and commanding prefering things be done their way, especially on the ships they command and love. Both have female objects of desire who generally try to court by acting like chauvinist pricks. Oh and both start there adventure when they are convinced to help out a brother and sister... ;D
Ah, there was a great show...
I never got the appeal.
Well, if you thought Malcolm Reynolds was a Han Solo ripoff, I don't think you were paying much attention to the show. Other than both belonging to the "loveable rogue" character class, they are very different.
Both men are smugglers who have reckless streaks and have no problem conning their way to greater profit and personal gain at the expense of their own lives. They are egotistical and commanding prefering things be done their way, especially on the ships they command and love. Both have female objects of desire who generally try to court by acting like chauvinist pricks. Oh and both start there adventure when they are convinced to help out a brother and sister... ;D
Ah, there was a great show...
I never got the appeal.
Well, if you thought Malcolm Reynolds was a Han Solo ripoff, I don't think you were paying much attention to the show. Other than both belonging to the "loveable rogue" character class, they are very different.
Both men are smugglers who have reckless streaks and have no problem conning their way to greater profit and personal gain at the expense of their own lives. They are egotistical and commanding prefering things be done their way, especially on the ships they command and love. Both have female objects of desire who generally try to court by acting like chauvinist pricks. Oh and both start there adventure when they are convinced to help out a brother and sister... ;D
This is like astrology, where you make the statements vague enough that they can apply to a large number of people.
Just finished Picard S2 E2.
I don't know. The story is now, I guess, set up. I like Q, but I am not crazy about the "repair the past" trope. We'll see.
Heard a lot of praise for that episode of Discovery across the web - but I haven't been able to watch this season in the UK. Also heard a lot of praise for episode 2 of Picard too, which I will watch this evening.
I'm not seeing all the praise some of you are for Picard. I mean, it was mostly coherent, but just so shallow.
I'm not seeing all the praise some of you are for Picard. I mean, it was mostly coherent, but just so shallow.
Q: I've put you in an alternate future, but don't worry....you won't be alone.
Picard: Oh? Who did you put on my team? My crew of the Enterprise that I've known for close to 40 years and trust with my life?
Q:.....no
Picard: My former Stargazer crew that served under me for the establishment of my career?
Q:....no
Picard:....then who?
Q: Those people you spent like a week with recently?
Lazy writing!Agreed. The same phenomena happened to all of these various characters, thrown into a world they don't recognize, and they just happen to all get together and assemble for whatever the mission is.
There’s no reason at all for what they did. Simply because “it’s their show” is bad writing. I’m sorry.
Lazy writing!
There’s no reason at all for what they did. Simply because “it’s their show” is bad writing. I’m sorry.
Lazy writing!
There’s no reason at all for what they did. Simply because “it’s their show” is bad writing. I’m sorry.
That's like saying in a starship of hundreds why does the important shite only happen to the same 8 characters.
The two aren't mutually exclusive. Also, I'd add cheapness into the equation, as well. It's a lot cheaper to shoehorn in an existing character to a situation than to pay somebody else to do it. It rarely bothers me. I get it. At the same time it's occasionally taken to stupid extremes and that does bug me. When the Borg attack there are probably 15 guys you'd rather have at tactical than Neelix.Lazy writing!
There’s no reason at all for what they did. Simply because “it’s their show” is bad writing. I’m sorry.
That's like saying in a starship of hundreds why does the important shite only happen to the same 8 characters. Lazy writing or just how TV shows have worked forever...
And still quite different than Q choosing people he has never met or had any interaction with, or likely never even really knew about.
This cast is way better than Disco's.
This cast is way better than Disco's.
I'll agree there! Minus Allison Pill and L. Ron. I'd take Saru over them.
I also realized that, for the most part, I have no idea what most anyone on Discovery does. Like, I get that Michael is the captain (and everything else needed at the moment) and Saru is the first officer. Stamits is the engineer and his husband is the doctor. But everyone else? No clue. They just kind of seem to do whatever whenever. Like you could swap any of them with any of them and it wouldn't matter.
Picard definitely has more.....defined....characters if nothing else.
Also is that robot girl not part of season 2 or will she just join later? Also looking forward to seeing the Soong relative in 2024 being just Brent Spiner. That is some strong DNA there my man, haha.
So apparently SNW season 2 will feature Kirk.
Big eh from me.
Not sure how you mean that, but from a production standpoint there's no risk at all. No matter how badly they blunder the thing the same people will still tune in to see it. They can try all of the strange things they want because there's no downside, and if they manage to do Kirk right they might get a few more viewers.So apparently SNW season 2 will feature Kirk.
Big eh from me.
Hmm. Sounds risky.
Not sure how you mean that, but from a production standpoint there's no risk at all. No matter how badly they blunder the thing the same people will still tune in to see it. They can try all of the strange things they want because there's no downside, and if they manage to do Kirk right they might get a few more viewers.So apparently SNW season 2 will feature Kirk.
Big eh from me.
Hmm. Sounds risky.
Picard episode 3 and the final episode of this season of discovery aired today.
Since I’m trying to avoid negative reviews, I’ll stop there.
Did anyone else notice how the walking dead began to really suck when Michael Burnham was there? Did anyone else notice how Star Trek began to really suck when Michael Burnham was there?
Did anyone else notice how the walking dead began to really suck when Michael Burnham was there? Did anyone else notice how Star Trek began to really suck when Michael Burnham was there?
Picard episode 3 and the final episode of this season of discovery aired today.
Since I’m trying to avoid negative reviews, I’ll stop there.
3rd episode of Picard wasn't great. I only mentioned about Disco killing it's cast and now we had this.....I don't get it, unless he returns then that just makes it cheap.
I guess the finale of disco sucked?
And it's not that finale sucked, it was basically two halves. The first half was just such typical explosions, tension, drama, everything is bad, blah blah blah, with a HUGE advancement in tech that made no sense, and then the second half was mostly just a big happy ending that didn't really do much for me. I get that a lot of people equate happy to good, but I don't.
Was season 4 worse than 3?
Was season 4 worse than 3?
Similar? I honestly don't even remember a ton about season 3 but it feels pretty similar in quality for the most part. Though I do think that 3/4 of the second to last episode this season was pretty legit good, though not great.
Was season 4 worse than 3?
I am so glad I never started Discovery.
I’d give season 2 a shot. I didn’t like season 1 at all the way most people did. But once it became about Pike instead, it got better.Nah
Not fantastic, but had good elements.
I’d give season 2 a shot. I didn’t like season 1 at all the way most people did. But once it became about Pike instead, it got better.Nah
Not fantastic, but had good elements.
But thanks
I like Picard but the most recent episode worries me.
But with The Expanse ending what other Space Sci-Fi shows is anyone enjoying? I watched Lost In Space to middle of Season 2 then gave up as it wasn't very engaging to say the least, Another Life is probably one of the most boring shows ever, Avenue 5 was a massive letdown. The Star Wars stuff is complete fluff and has a massive problem not wanting to moving away from it's legacy. I guess we have The Orville coming back but with that being in production hell for a couple of years and pretty much the final season I'm not sure how strong it'll be (and it's a show that has a history of inconsistency).
Anything else?
I believe TNG introduced the holodeck, and DS9 introduced the holosuite. The "suite" part of it seemed appropriate because it was part of Quark's bar/casino, and I think it was understood that holodecks -- whether or not anyone admitted it -- were often used in a way that would add "/brothel" to Quark's establishment. A "suite" sounds nicer, fancier, and somehow cleaner because this is Star Trek. TV-PG.Mostly what you typed. Also, the holosuite in Quark's was tiny. It looked pretty small when it was powered down. The holodeck on TNG was massive in comparison. Doesn't seem to make much difference in usage, though, as they had no problem putting a baseball field and 24 or so players in Quark's.
The question is: What is the difference between a holodeck and a holosuite?
The question is: What is the difference between a holodeck and a holosuite?
I am actually really shocked at how bad the new Picard episode was. I think it's the first time I was truly in awe of it rather than just let down.
Honestly, after that episode I might really quit. Which is a real shame. We’ll see.
Honestly, after that episode I might really quit. Which is a real shame. We’ll see.
Just admit it, you're a masochist. Any sensible person would've quit after Discovery S2 if they hated it as much as you do.
That's pretty understandable. At the same time, I have no relationship with whatever Discovery is. I'll watch the JJVerse movies because of that relationship. I'll watch Picard because of that relationship. I'll watch SNW because of it. STD might as well be a Yugoslavian sitcom for all it means to me.Honestly, after that episode I might really quit. Which is a real shame. We’ll see.
Just admit it, you're a masochist. Any sensible person would've quit after Discovery S2 if they hated it as much as you do.
Like Orbert said, it's my relationship to Star Trek. it's not just some new show. I've been a trek fan for as long as I can remember. So it's hard to simply walk away, you know?
That's pretty understandable. At the same time, I have no relationship with whatever Discovery is. I'll watch the JJVerse movies because of that relationship. I'll watch Picard because of that relationship. I'll watch SNW because of it. STD might as well be a Yugoslavian sitcom for all it means to me.Honestly, after that episode I might really quit. Which is a real shame. We’ll see.
Just admit it, you're a masochist. Any sensible person would've quit after Discovery S2 if they hated it as much as you do.
Like Orbert said, it's my relationship to Star Trek. it's not just some new show. I've been a trek fan for as long as I can remember. So it's hard to simply walk away, you know?
I watched the new episode of Picard.
Do you know what the best thing about seeing 25th century people back in time during the 21st century?
It's a trick question. There are no good things about it.
Can't say I see it that way, but it's all good. Luckily we each have Star Trek stuff that works for us.
I had a look at who wrote the last episode, someone with barely any writing credits to their name - 2 episodes of Superman & Lois being the biggest thing. I don't get why on a show where the story in continuous you need to keep bringing in new writers all the time. The showrunner plus a couple of writers who share the vision is enough, there is only 10 episodes per season here!!!
TNG was self contained episodes though, as long as the episode resolved itself they should be free to write anything (including rapey ghost candles ;D) as long as everything was reset by the time the credits rolled.
If you are wanting to tell a story arc over 10 episodes I just don't get why you'd get writers in for one episode, the last episode of Picard wasn't just bad writing it was tonely different to the previous episodes!!!
2) Speaking of terrible Trek, I'm doing my huge ST rewatch, currently alternating episodes between TNG season 7 and DS9 season 2. What's my next episode? Sub Rosa. Oh god. Wish me luck!
2) Speaking of terrible Trek, I'm doing my huge ST rewatch, currently alternating episodes between TNG season 7 and DS9 season 2. What's my next episode? Sub Rosa. Oh god. Wish me luck!
Do not light that candle!
2) Speaking of terrible Trek, I'm doing my huge ST rewatch, currently alternating episodes between TNG season 7 and DS9 season 2. What's my next episode? Sub Rosa. Oh god. Wish me luck!
Do not light that candle!
2) Speaking of terrible Trek, I'm doing my huge ST rewatch, currently alternating episodes between TNG season 7 and DS9 season 2. What's my next episode? Sub Rosa. Oh god. Wish me luck!
Do not light that candle!
Survived it. Ugh what a bad episode. Not the same kind of bad as Picard but it’s basically an awful soap opera episode that got turned into a Trek episode. Even the acting was soap opera quality.
2) Speaking of terrible Trek, I'm doing my huge ST rewatch, currently alternating episodes between TNG season 7 and DS9 season 2. What's my next episode? Sub Rosa. Oh god. Wish me luck!
Do not light that candle!
Survived it. Ugh what a bad episode. Not the same kind of bad as Picard but it’s basically an awful soap opera episode that got turned into a Trek episode. Even the acting was soap opera quality.
Better or worse than Masks?
Finally watched latest episode of Picard. Oof…..I mean, this is comical now. I legit believe that I could sit down and write a better episode…..heck, season…..than what they’re doing now. I’ve watched countless hours of TV/Series/Movies and I 100% believe I could do better. Not trying to claim greatness or anything like that…..just have seen enough to know what is ‘good’ and what stinks. This show stinks.
Finally watched latest episode of Picard. Oof…..I mean, this is comical now. I legit believe that I could sit down and write a better episode…..heck, season…..than what they’re doing now. I’ve watched countless hours of TV/Series/Movies and I 100% believe I could do better. Not trying to claim greatness or anything like that…..just have seen enough to know what is ‘good’ and what stinks. This show stinks.
At least the Hispanic doctor is cute.
2) Speaking of terrible Trek, I'm doing my huge ST rewatch, currently alternating episodes between TNG season 7 and DS9 season 2. What's my next episode? Sub Rosa. Oh god. Wish me luck!
Do not light that candle!
Survived it. Ugh what a bad episode. Not the same kind of bad as Picard but it’s basically an awful soap opera episode that got turned into a Trek episode. Even the acting was soap opera quality.
Better or worse than Masks?
At least the Hispanic doctor is cute.
2) Speaking of terrible Trek, I'm doing my huge ST rewatch, currently alternating episodes between TNG season 7 and DS9 season 2. What's my next episode? Sub Rosa. Oh god. Wish me luck!
Do not light that candle!
Survived it. Ugh what a bad episode. Not the same kind of bad as Picard but it’s basically an awful soap opera episode that got turned into a Trek episode. Even the acting was soap opera quality.
Better or worse than Masks?
Worse. Masks was bad....but it had some cool ideas that just were awfully executed. And despite the terrible script and community theater level acting by Brent Spiner, Patrick Stewart managed to give a dignified and committed performance. Plus the general concept of ancient mythology coming to life is a neat idea, even if executed in the worst way. Sub Rosa just had....nothing. Nothing at all.
Worse. Masks was bad....but it had some cool ideas that just were awfully executed. And despite the terrible script and community theater level acting by Brent Spiner, Patrick Stewart managed to give a dignified and committed performance. Plus the general concept of ancient mythology coming to life is a neat idea, even if executed in the worst way. Sub Rosa just had....nothing. Nothing at all.
Worse. Masks was bad....but it had some cool ideas that just were awfully executed. And despite the terrible script and community theater level acting by Brent Spiner, Patrick Stewart managed to give a dignified and committed performance. Plus the general concept of ancient mythology coming to life is a neat idea, even if executed in the worst way. Sub Rosa just had....nothing. Nothing at all.
Is Sub Rosa the worst Trek episode from the TNG - Enterprise era? I really hated those Irish holodeck episodes on Voyager (and the Lizard Sex episode), and obviously 'Code of Honour' needs to be mentioned. And as great as DS9 is it still had 'Profit and Lace'.
Yeah, I may forego the rest of Picard. I don't have enough time to watch bad TV.
Yeah, I may forego the rest of Picard. I don't have enough time to watch bad TV.
I hadn't been keeping current on Picard, and just watched Ep2 last night. After Ep1, I had some thoughts that there might be something decent going on (the Guinan scene notwithstanding, Ep1 was pretty decent). Alas, we're going to do the whole time travel to fix something bad that happened in the past *AND* it was Q doing that bad thing to create the bad future? FFS, can no one come up with something original? Having read thru everyone's posts I've come to this same conclusion as Hef.
My disposable time is too limited and precious to invest it this way.
Against my better judgement, I watched Episode 5, and the fuckery (IMO) continues.
I think that's it for me.
Against my better judgement, I watched Episode 5, and the fuckery (IMO) continues.
I think that's it for me.
I'm not watching it, but I looked up some IMBD reviews out of curiosity. There were only a few at the time but they focused on how, besides the slow pacing, it was absolutely brilliant. I am just not sure who is watching this and reviewing it on IMDB to consistently give it high marks. I guess Picard really does have an audience that loves it.
Edit: Guess I checked too early. Rating on IMDB has dropped from 9 to 7.4 or something over the last few hours.
Biggest shocker for me: Kai Winn's first name! :omg: I just went "Now wait just a damned minute..." I had no idea.
So... coincidence?
Biggest shocker for me: Kai Winn's first name! :omg: I just went "Now wait just a damned minute..." I had no idea.
One letter away from sharing a name with Commander Adama, but ends up sharing with Kai Winn.
Parenting fail!
Now that's funny. Can't wait to see all you purists in pain watching next season. LolWon't have to worry about me. I gave up on it ages ago.
Unfortunately, those in power do not stick to Roddenberry's principles of the future.
There slogan is, "Make War, not Love."
Unfortunately, those in power do not stick to Roddenberry's principles of the future.
There slogan is, "Make War, not Love."
Sadly Roddenberry had lost the plot with TNG. The first two seasons are him in power, it's no surprise it got better on season 3 when Berman, Pillar, Moore, Ira Stevens etc...took over. Roddenberry even wanted Patrick Stewart to wear a wig (there is a picture online..).
As for the TNG cast returning - it's going to be difficult as the episodic reset nature of TNG episodes meant that the characters didn't really change for 7 seasons, they had the their traits and personalities that fitted the structures of that show. New Trek being continuous stories events on episodes carry forward, so the characters have to change/evolve (not that they are doing a good job of this to be honest...). I think a guest appearance for an episode or two is that best they can do - like Troi and Ryker in season one, that actually worked well allowed them to be as we remembered without the burden of them needed to be affected by the drama (and to be fair Troi had rarely been better).
Personally.....I'd have preferred a series based around Riker rather than Picard. Picard is 'played out' and we all know and love that character. I think you'd have had more opportunity for an interesting story if they'd have focused on Riker or even Warf. It'd have been different and not been constrained by the lore of Picard.
Fun fact: Episodes 3 and 4 were directed by Lea Thompson, probably best known as Lorraine McFly, Marty's mom. Going back in time, trying to right past wrongs, etc.
Uh, thanks. That would have been a cool surprise.
I think I’m 2 or 3 episodes behind now on Picard. Maybe I’ll let them build up and just binge it all one night
I think I'll do something similar at some point. I'm enjoying the break and watching it all at once is a bit easier to swallow.
And I'm only doing this cause bringing the TNG crew back is enough for me to at least try season 3. It's a weakness, I know.
I think that when the team eventually jumps back to their correct time, Rios will elect to stay behind.
I think that when the team eventually jumps back to their correct time, Rios will elect to stay behind.
I'm thinking that too. That'll annoy me if so, firstly because I like the character and secondly why do they keep losing/swapping the crew on these New Trek shows?
It seemed like Discovery was constantly killing off characters and bringing in new ones, and sometimes bringing back ones you thought were dead or just written off. Landry, Lorca, Georgiou, Airiam... and then of course when we leapt into the 34th century (or whatever TF it is now) anyone we didn't take with us was written off. Tyler, Sarek, etc.
But we barely even met the bridge crew until the second season; I don't think most people knew most of their names. I still don't know all their names.
Hey now, there's nothing WOKE about making Stacey Abrams the president of the god damn planet. :lol
I often really do think we just watch Star Trek so differently.
I often really do think we just watch Star Trek so differently.
It all depends if you think of 'woke' as some derogatory term, or you see it as being actively attentive to important facts and issues (especially issues of racial and general social justice). The latter applies to Trek. The former is just a modern form of trolling by angry people who seem to spend way to much time hating things.
I often really do think we just watch Star Trek so differently.
It all depends if you think of 'woke' as some derogatory term, or you see it as being actively attentive to important facts and issues (especially issues of racial and general social justice). The latter applies to Trek. The former is just a modern form of trolling by angry people who seem to spend way to much time hating things.
Since I used the term I’ll address this. As I mentioned……I agree that shows are a good platform to address social issues, especially when they’re well done.
Discovery however is extremely over the top with the level to which it goes to incorporate these things into the show. To the point of the story/show suffers for it. Since this isn’t P/R I’ll leave it at that.
I was agreeing with Gary's criticism of how it's being handled, now that they're doing it. One of my main draws to trek is their social commentary. It's just that Discovery and Picard do a very VERY bad job at it.
ST may always have been "woke" but for the most part, it was done in a less cartoony way. It had more depth to it when illustrating their points and they didn't base their starting point in an example that is dictated by a 24h news cycle. Or at least rarely did. Take Picard for example and the whole plot about ICE and illegals. Cartoony evil white guy - dem ICE agents really go there just cos they hate immigrants.
They try to tackle big problems and their examples are shallow and will be irrelevant within a few months or years. It's like they're presenting us with children's understanding of complex issues. And they don't even point out any solutions, they're just pointing things out - environment bad, immigration bad, racism bad, sexism bad. Things are bad. All their points would fall apart and be irrelevant if they just went to Sweden or Norway for example, instead of that one section of LA. What happens in some parts of the US does not apply to the rest of the damn world lol. It doesn't even apply to all of America.
Not to mention they won't allow a straight, caucasian man to step foot on the bridge of Discovery (or actually anywhere on that ship). Although the last time they did (Cpt. Pike) it was by far the most interesting and well written character the show has seen (outside of Philippa Georgiou)
I'm down with depicting diversity and/or showing that women can do everything a man can do and all that.....but they've diversified themselves right out of an interesting or compelling storyline IMO.
Ok. So we are on episode 9 of Picard now and it's...................utter shit. I defended Season 1, but this, this is now just awful - the writers are just making stuff up on the fly now, with no internal logic or continuity, episode 9 honestly made me angry.
Ok. So we are on episode 9 of Picard now and it's...................utter shit. I defended Season 1, but this, this is now just awful - the writers are just making stuff up on the fly now, with no internal logic or continuity, episode 9 honestly made me angry.Super excited about binging it in the background before season 3 comes out haha.
Ok. So we are on episode 9 of Picard now and it's...................utter shit. I defended Season 1, but this, this is now just awful - the writers are just making stuff up on the fly now, with no internal logic or continuity, episode 9 honestly made me angry.
Super excited about binging it in the background before season 3 comes out haha.
On another note, about to finish season 1 of Voyager and season 3 of DS9.
I keep forgetting just how good the DS9 characters are. And while Voyager has it's very meh episodes and bland characters (such as Kim), it has some great moments and episodes. Honestly, as much as everyone hates Neelix, I think I'm more anti-Kes. I just am not even sure what they're going for with her and she's boring as all hell. Neelix isn't great, and I know he gets worse, but he still has some good moments and the actor is much better than Jennifer.
Kes was a great idea on paper, but was just poorly executed. And honestly that's on the writers and not Lien. Saddling her with Neelix was dumb (and a little creepy). More importantly, they generally ignored the one thing that would make her interesting. She could have been the requisite observer of the human condition as seen from a teenager all the way to an elder. That might have been interesting.
Chakotay, hmm. I think the writers really missed the mark on bringing in his spirtuality and stuff, but I don't mind the character.
Chakotay, hmm. I think the writers really missed the mark on bringing in his spirtuality and stuff, but I don't mind the character.
Unfortunately, they hired a fraud Native American consultant for the show.
On the last episode of season 1 of Voyager and I think Roxanne Dawson needs some awards for delivering the line “get the cheese to sickbay” without laughing.
Chakotay is the only real crap Trek character where the actor is a major reason the character sucks. Beltran gives such a dull, flat performance in a role that needs someone much more dynamic, then the guy boasts about phoning it in on later seasons because the writers had given up on his character. Yeah the mystic Indian stuff isn't good, but it could have be tolerable is they had an actor who embraced it and had fun with its stupidity, instead you had a guy who just looks bored.
Paris got a promotion.
Paris would have been a terrible first officer. While ST never really showed it much, the XO is supposed to be the bad cop. Paris was too easy going, and to put him into that role would have been to completely change his character. If Chakotay were sacked it'd be Tuvok all the way. Interestingly, the only time they ever really got the first officer thing right was the DS9 episode Valiant, when they had that awful blonde cunt terrorizing Jake. Data serving as Jelico's XO was also on point.Paris got a promotion.
When they got rid of Kes and replaced her with Seven they also should have dumped Chakotay and promoted Paris to second in command. Instead they ruined Paris in the later seasons by sticking him in a tedious never ending up and down romance with Torres.
Oh Christ I forgot about the Seven/Chakotay thing.Same applies to Seven/Chakotay. That was only the last few episodes. I think the difference is that they only invented that one as a device for the series finale. The Worf/Troy thing didn't actually serve any purpose at all. It was just a pathetic attempt to do something, anything, because they were so completely out of ideas by that point.
And while Worf and Troi was bad, luckily it barely existed. So I can easily look past it.
While the last season definitely had some stinkers, I don’t see it nearly as negatively as you do. I think they were largely doing fine. I’d call the Word/Troi thing a major misstep. Not them being out of ideas.Data's brother
Data has nightmaresPhantasms, I loved that episode :lol Cellular peptide cake :metal
with mint frosting, I believe.
While the last season definitely had some stinkers, I don’t see it nearly as negatively as you do. I think they were largely doing fine. I’d call the Word/Troi thing a major misstep. Not them being out of ideas.Data's brother
Gerdi's mom
Troi's mom
Data's mom
Worf's other brother
Crusher's grandmother
Worf's adult son
Picard's son
When a third of your episodes involve relatives of characters you either just invented or keep dredging up, you're officially out of ideas.
On top of that, Data has nightmares, warp travel be bad, the Enterprise becomes sentient, Wesley becomes an Indian, Spiner overacting his freakin ass off. . .Man, what a shit show. To be fair, there were also some very good episodes in there. Gambit, Lower Decks as an oddball, Thine Own Self, and of course All Good Things. It's just kind of clear that they were grasping at straws for stories to tell, and some of the better ones were probably punted off to DS9.
Yeah, I wasn't trying to suggest that the season totally sucked. In truth my like/dislike ratio probably isn't terribly far off from yours. I just think they were completely out of ideas, and it resulted in a higher number of awful episodes and a generally inferior season. That's what led to the ridiculous Worf/Troi thing.While the last season definitely had some stinkers, I don’t see it nearly as negatively as you do. I think they were largely doing fine. I’d call the Word/Troi thing a major misstep. Not them being out of ideas.Data's brother
Gerdi's mom
Troi's mom
Data's mom
Worf's other brother
Crusher's grandmother
Worf's adult son
Picard's son
When a third of your episodes involve relatives of characters you either just invented or keep dredging up, you're officially out of ideas.
On top of that, Data has nightmares, warp travel be bad, the Enterprise becomes sentient, Wesley becomes an Indian, Spiner overacting his freakin ass off. . .Man, what a shit show. To be fair, there were also some very good episodes in there. Gambit, Lower Decks as an oddball, Thine Own Self, and of course All Good Things. It's just kind of clear that they were grasping at straws for stories to tell, and some of the better ones were probably punted off to DS9.
I can agree on some of that, but we obviously have a little different taste. Which is cool.
Just going through season 7 episodes now, it looks like I like about 17 of the 24 episodes. Not all of those 17 are amazing, but they're all good by me. So I'd call that good enough.
with mint frosting, I believe.
Delicious! (watch to the end):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lsNrPPYCRMc
Also:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KMFZ0XDK3uY
Just going through season 7 episodes now, it looks like I like about 17 of the 24 episodes. Not all of those 17 are amazing, but they're all good by me. So I'd call that good enough.
1) I think you're looking at it knowing the result ahead of time. YOU know she had to send cyclops to die, and you know you could make that same call easily. But she didn't know what to do. She had to figure out that was the answer when it wasn't obvious at all.
I'll agree it wasn't necessary and it wasn't well written, but the worst thing ST has done? Not even close.
Picard season 2 finale. Meh...Wesley.
Picard season 2 finale. Meh...Wesley.
Huh?
Like normal Wesley or god of the Travelers Wesley?
I've read some reviews and it's all over the place. What I've read sounds awful though.
Anyone watch Strange New Worlds yet? I haven't had the time yet, but I hope to soon.
You loved Picard season 2 or just 1?
Watched episode 1 of SNW.
Not bad. Some dumb moments, and feels like a prequel to the Kelvin movies more than anything else. I didn't like the Khan girl, whoever she is, very much at all, but the rest of the cast is good. They really struck gold with Anson Mount. And it did have the spirit of Star Trek, for the most part.
I could have done without the 2021/2022 politics is bad! moment, but it was quick enough and not super highlighted.
Overall, worth watching. Hope it continues like this. Pretty good, and definitely benefits being compared to Picard and Discovery, because without those two, I think this would largely be seen as mediocre, but people will think it's amazing when compared to those two.
Edit: The Kirk twist was cute, though I hope it's not a big part of the story.
Assignment: Earth, with Gary Seven, the cute 60s Terri Garr, and Earth on the brink of nuclear Armageddon.
Edit: I can't recall examples of Star Trek TOS making direct references to what was happening in the late 60's without allegory, however you may be right that they did it, and since I'm watching it in the 90's/2000's and later, it didn't hit the same way this did. So, if they really did that, I'll concede the point, but still say I don't like it. There's creative ways to do this, and I don't think that's an example of it.
That being said, I really liked the final interaction of Picard and Q. While it was super cheesy, I liked the line "Even gods have favorites"! Shows that despite everything, Q has always respected Picard.Between All Good Things and Tapestry I've always recognized a sort of kinship, even if Picard never appreciated it. Q was meddlesome, and occasionally a dick, but he did really seem to like some of them. Janeway actually came around to understanding that.
Credit where credit is due.
Watched the Picard finale. I mean, it was better than I thought it would be, and I really enjoyed the last interaction between Picard and Q.
But the show itself is not good.
Watched the Picard finale. I mean, it was better than I thought it would be, and I really enjoyed the last interaction between Picard and Q.
But the show itself is not good.
I may just have to knock this one out to get it out of the way. I'm pretty far behind though...only watched three episodes so far. But you're the fourth or fifth person to say that the Picard / Q interaction was something to see....so, may just need to get this one done.
Episode was cool….had the chance to get heavy handed with the anti everything America but they nipped it in the bud quick enough just to make the point.
I'll go on record as saying the Picard/Q moment was really well done.
Episode was cool….had the chance to get heavy handed with the anti everything America but they nipped it in the bud quick enough just to make the point.
That they did, though that narrative was some seriously low hanging fruit for sure. (not that it's totally wrong, we got problems for sure, but still, very easy pickings)
Not sure if I'm going to dig their new take on Nurse Chapple. We'll have to see. She comes off as a little too Gen Z for me.
Watched ep 2 last night and thought it was meh soooooo I have low expectations to say the least lolWatched the Picard finale. I mean, it was better than I thought it would be, and I really enjoyed the last interaction between Picard and Q.
But the show itself is not good.
I may just have to knock this one out to get it out of the way. I'm pretty far behind though...only watched three episodes so far. But you're the fourth or fifth person to say that the Picard / Q interaction was something to see....so, may just need to get this one done.
Those first 3 episodes were probably the best, certainly the first two were!
That red dress was worth the price of admission all by itself! :rollin :rollin :rollin
That red dress was worth the price of admission all by itself! :rollin :rollin :rollin
Two episodes in to SNW and it’s already infinitely better than Discovery or Picard.
Two episodes in to SNW and it’s already infinitely better than Discovery or Picard.
Yea, I really enjoyed the second episode.
This is what the ST reboot series should've been. If they had released this instead of Discovery or Picard, the attitude toward ST might be a lot better than it is now. Let's hope it keeps it up.
Loving episode 3!
I honestly thought they would never figure it out, but they did it!
Loving episode 3!
I honestly thought they would never figure it out, but they did it!
Yup. Another good episode!
Though, the Andorian is getting a bit annoying. Dunno why they NEED the super arrogant condescending character, but oh well.
Loving episode 3!
I honestly thought they would never figure it out, but they did it!
Yup. Another good episode!
Though, the Andorian is getting a bit annoying. Dunno why they NEED the super arrogant condescending character, but oh well.
Oh come now. In TOS, that was Spock! ;D
Loving episode 3!
I honestly thought they would never figure it out, but they did it!
Yup. Another good episode!
Though, the Andorian is getting a bit annoying. Dunno why they NEED the super arrogant condescending character, but oh well.
Loving episode 3!
I honestly thought they would never figure it out, but they did it!
Yup. Another good episode!
Though, the Andorian is getting a bit annoying. Dunno why they NEED the super arrogant condescending character, but oh well.
For some reason, I remember being an arrogant douche as a typical Andorian trait..I could totally be wrong here of course.
Also another solid episode, totally agree. Glad they're not trying to establish some huge story arc and just having fun with it for a change.
Loving episode 3!
I honestly thought they would never figure it out, but they did it!
Yup. Another good episode!
Though, the Andorian is getting a bit annoying. Dunno why they NEED the super arrogant condescending character, but oh well.
For some reason, I remember being an arrogant douche as a typical Andorian trait..I could totally be wrong here of course.
Also another solid episode, totally agree. Glad they're not trying to establish some huge story arc and just having fun with it for a change.
You're totally right for the most. The only other Andorian we've spent any actual time with was Shran. I guess Jeffrey Combs just gave him such charm that his arrogance didn't annoy me haha. But yea, he was an arrogant little twat. So it tracks. I just want to like all the characters, and I'm even coming around to the Khan girl. I just need to get on board with the Andorian and Nurse Chapple.
But suffice to say that BNW has rekindled a big spark in me.
I liked Episode 3 pretty much overall. Number One's monologuing went on a bit too long for my taste, and for a moment I was ready to call Michael Burnham-level rambling, but then it stopped finally and it was okay.But suffice to say that BNW has rekindled a big spark in me.
Brave New Worlds?
And it certainly helps that they've got some decent writing, finally.
SNW has both and it’s refreshing.
As someone who has seen not even 1 second of Discovery, am I correct to assume they used an event from *that* show as the launching point for SNW - similar to how Wolf 359 was used as a launching point for DS9? Not super relevant in the grand scheme of things, but a story point from one show that demonstrates a mild connection to the new show?
SNW has both and it’s refreshing.
How's the actually show episode storytelling so far? Are they pure old school Trek of complete individual stories per episode (where everything resets at the end), or is there an arc, and things hangover from episode to episode.
Sam is Kirk's brother. He didn't really have much story in TOS, other than dying. They went to a planet where Sam lived with this family and some weird alien things killed most of them including Sam. That's about it.
Sam is Kirk's brother. He didn't really have much story in TOS, other than dying. They went to a planet where Sam lived with this family and some weird alien things killed most of them including Sam. That's about it.
Gotchya. So, again... nice fan service, but nothing too threatening involving him will happen if this series is also canon to TOS. Again, I didn't watch Discovery, but seem to recall there were some timeline deviations introduced. So, is SNW linear to TOS?
Ehh….first season of Discovery wasn’t bad…..second was decent……but since then it’s a mess. There’s quite a bit of co tent in this thread detailing why so no need to rehash……simply put…..it’s Horribly written and acted.
Progmetty
You should at least check the newest episode of The Orville. Seth pretty much jettisoned the comedy altogether. At first he was trying to do his homage to TNG with a bit of his own style of humor wrapped around it…but I think since he knows this is his last hurrah, he’s doubled down on the drama and made a pretty heavy intro to his third and final season. I’m curious to see what you’d think. I don’t think I laughed once. But I was pleasantly surprised.
Sam is Kirk's brother. He didn't really have much story in TOS, other than dying. They went to a planet where Sam lived with this family and some weird alien things killed most of them including Sam. That's about it.
Gotchya. So, again... nice fan service, but nothing too threatening involving him will happen if this series is also canon to TOS. Again, I didn't watch Discovery, but seem to recall there were some timeline deviations introduced. So, is SNW linear to TOS?
SNW is years before TOS. Looks like around 8-10? Not 100% sure when Pike is supposed to have been disfigured in TOS, if it was long before or during the show. I think during. And we're 10 years from that.
I think the Sam Kirk thing was mostly to throw off fans, but it seems James T will be joining us next season, which I'm not fond of, but such is life.
It should be 13 years before The Menagerie, I went back and rewatched The Menagerie recently.Big fan of The Menagerie. Great job of overlaying the Kirk crew with the original story. And Spock's part of it is excellent.
Another good episode…..although I have a feeling I should have known who those characters were but my limited ST knowledge has hindered that understanding
Another good episode…..although I have a feeling I should have known who those characters were but my limited ST knowledge has hindered that understanding
In the Original Series episode "Amok Time", Spock travels to Vulcan to officially marry T'Pring. The Vulcan version of "if anyone objects..." is that the bride-to-be has the right to require that the groom-to-be fight for her. T'Pring is basically tired of waiting for Spock to decide between his career and her, and she has chosen this dude named Stonn over him. We met Stonn in this episode; he was the guy working with her at the rehab place.
The guy at the very end, Aspen/Angel's husband, is Sybok, Spock's half-brother from STV: The Final Frontier.
The fanservice and constant callbacks (callforwards?) to TOS canon is mostly well-done, augmenting lore while not really contradicting it, but it's starting to feel like they're stuffing in as much as of it as they can per episode, rather than letting it unfold more organically.
Not to mention as El Barto stated, everybody’s using 21st century colloquialisms. Show has great potential but they need to clean up some crap.Did somebody refer to the pon farr as "Vulcans going cray cray?" :lol
There is ABSOLUTELY. NO. REASON. to rewrite Spock’s backstory. It was established Vulcans don’t kiss. In TOS he hadn’t seen T’Pring since their engagement as children. They could have picked any other male character to depict navigating a relationship instead of shoe-horning Spock into it and ret-conning. That’s JJ Abrams level garbage. Not to mention as El Barto stated, everybody’s using 21st century colloquialisms. Show has great potential but they need to clean up some crap.
There is ABSOLUTELY. NO. REASON. to rewrite Spock’s backstory. It was established Vulcans don’t kiss. In TOS he hadn’t seen T’Pring since their engagement as children. They could have picked any other male character to depict navigating a relationship instead of shoe-horning Spock into it and ret-conning. That’s JJ Abrams level garbage. Not to mention as El Barto stated, everybody’s using 21st century colloquialisms. Show has great potential but they need to clean up some crap.
I'm glad I'm not a purist. It seems exhausting.
I get what you mean, but at the same time, what was the point of laying all of the foundations of the franchis for decades if they were irrelevant? Especially with this, the original fanatic genre fanbase?There is ABSOLUTELY. NO. REASON. to rewrite Spock’s backstory. It was established Vulcans don’t kiss. In TOS he hadn’t seen T’Pring since their engagement as children. They could have picked any other male character to depict navigating a relationship instead of shoe-horning Spock into it and ret-conning. That’s JJ Abrams level garbage. Not to mention as El Barto stated, everybody’s using 21st century colloquialisms. Show has great potential but they need to clean up some crap.
I'm glad I'm not a purist. It seems exhausting.
I get what you mean, but at the same time, what was the point of laying all of the foundations of the franchis for decades if they were irrelevant? Especially with this, the original fanatic genre fanbase?There is ABSOLUTELY. NO. REASON. to rewrite Spock’s backstory. It was established Vulcans don’t kiss. In TOS he hadn’t seen T’Pring since their engagement as children. They could have picked any other male character to depict navigating a relationship instead of shoe-horning Spock into it and ret-conning. That’s JJ Abrams level garbage. Not to mention as El Barto stated, everybody’s using 21st century colloquialisms. Show has great potential but they need to clean up some crap.
I'm glad I'm not a purist. It seems exhausting.
Finally, SNW sent a landing party to my place in the UK last night. Watched the first episode.
Enjoyed it. Wasn't blown away but looking forward to more. Pike is terrific. The references to what happened in Disco S2 I found to be very effective. Love the positivity about the federation, and the first contact scenario was really well done.
Good fun!
Finally, SNW sent a landing party to my place in the UK last night. Watched the first episode.
Enjoyed it. Wasn't blown away but looking forward to more. Pike is terrific. The references to what happened in Disco S2 I found to be very effective. Love the positivity about the federation, and the first contact scenario was really well done.
Good fun!
I'm hoping to get beamed aboard later today (depends if Paramount Plus is on the firestick). So I may join you on this 8 week mission to explore Strange New Worlds.
Finally, SNW sent a landing party to my place in the UK last night. Watched the first episode.
Enjoyed it. Wasn't blown away but looking forward to more. Pike is terrific. The references to what happened in Disco S2 I found to be very effective. Love the positivity about the federation, and the first contact scenario was really well done.
Good fun!
Have they just dropped the first episode or have they released upto where the US is at?
I'm hoping to get beamed aboard later today (depends if Paramount Plus is on the firestick). So I may join you on this 8 week mission to explore Strange New Worlds.
Nice. I needn't have been nervous about dropping in Trek verbage too liberally. :lol
I found it on Prime as channel add-on, in case that's an easy route for you.
One thing that I like about the show is that, after the first ~4 episodes or so, I felt like I knew most of the main crew far better than I ever did the crew on Discovery.
One thing that I like about the show is that, after the first ~4 episodes or so, I felt like I knew most of the main crew far better than I ever did the crew on Discovery.
Yep. Way better writing and acting.....you can certainly 'feel' the characters more which makes you get into them and care more. I bolded 'acting' because if this series does anything it has shown that Discovery and Picard (outside of Stewart and Ryan to an extent) fall WAY short in the acting department.....the folks cast in those roles are simply not good.
One thing that I like about the show is that, after the first ~4 episodes or so, I felt like I knew most of the main crew far better than I ever did the crew on Discovery.
Yep. Way better writing and acting.....you can certainly 'feel' the characters more which makes you get into them and care more. I bolded 'acting' because if this series does anything it has shown that Discovery and Picard (outside of Stewart and Ryan to an extent) fall WAY short in the acting department.....the folks cast in those roles are simply not good.
I don't agree with that to be honest, most of the actors in the modern shows are better than several of the 80's and 90's shows casts.
I'd argue Doug Jones and Wilson Cruz are doing good work on Discovery. But I mostly agree with you.
One thing that I like about the show is that, after the first ~4 episodes or so, I felt like I knew most of the main crew far better than I ever did the crew on Discovery.
Yep. Way better writing and acting.....you can certainly 'feel' the characters more which makes you get into them and care more. I bolded 'acting' because if this series does anything it has shown that Discovery and Picard (outside of Stewart and Ryan to an extent) fall WAY short in the acting department.....the folks cast in those roles are simply not good.
I don't agree with that to be honest, most of the actors in the modern shows are better than several of the 80's and 90's shows casts.
While that may be true....there's not a single actor/actress on Discovery for instance that is believable in their role....or compelling....or that does anything to bring the character to life. They're just reading a script. SNW on the other hand is choc full of actors/actresses that are believable and that near immediately forced the viewer to connect with them.
I'd still have to disagree. You've highlighted Stewart as one of the strengths, personally thought he was one of the weakness, probably an age thing, but he just looked lost most of the time. Whereas Cabrera was great, but given barely anything to work with - then dumped from the show. The writing is the problem, not the actors. No one phones it in like Beltran and is as hopeless as McFadden!!
One thing that I like about the show is that, after the first ~4 episodes or so, I felt like I knew most of the main crew far better than I ever did the crew on Discovery.
Yep. Way better writing and acting.....you can certainly 'feel' the characters more which makes you get into them and care more. I bolded 'acting' because if this series does anything it has shown that Discovery and Picard (outside of Stewart and Ryan to an extent) fall WAY short in the acting department.....the folks cast in those roles are simply not good.
Still need to see the newest episode, but overall I'd say it's not the best ST show by a stretch. It has great moments and meh moments. But...it's an actual ST show. Which, as far as I feel, is the first real ST show since Enterprise.
Still need to see the newest episode, but overall I'd say it's not the best ST show by a stretch. It has great moments and meh moments. But...it's an actual ST show. Which, as far as I feel, is the first real ST show since Enterprise.
I wouldn’t say it’s *THE* best, but I stand by my claim that it’s the best ST TV show in 30 years hands down.
Still need to see the newest episode, but overall I'd say it's not the best ST show by a stretch. It has great moments and meh moments. But...it's an actual ST show. Which, as far as I feel, is the first real ST show since Enterprise.
I wouldn’t say it’s *THE* best, but I stand by my claim that it’s the best ST TV show in 30 years hands down.
It's better than DS9 and Voyager and some of TNG?
I mean.....no? It's hard to compare 6-7 episodes (or whatever it's been) to 4 years of Enterprise, but if you want to say it's better than Enterprise, I'd let that go.
It's the hair.
YesStill need to see the newest episode, but overall I'd say it's not the best ST show by a stretch. It has great moments and meh moments. But...it's an actual ST show. Which, as far as I feel, is the first real ST show since Enterprise.
I wouldn’t say it’s *THE* best, but I stand by my claim that it’s the best ST TV show in 30 years hands down.
It's better than DS9 and Voyager and some of TNG?
It's the hair.
:lol Well yeah....it's quite the style. But in all seriousness, his charisma as an actor and just overall 'quality' of the way he portrays that role is fantastic. Honestly, I know I keep harping on it but the entire cast on this show are noticeably more talented actors than in Discovery and Picard. I know it has a some to do with the writing but for whatever reason this case seems more 'professional' than the others.
Episode 4 was a real good one. Still yet to be won over by La'an Noonien-Singh (angry girl is angry) or Doctor M'Benga (completely outshone by Nurse Chapel) yet though.
I think I like La'an. There's a lot to mine there if they can give it the space to be natural.
Why did #1 get arrested? I watched 3 times and couldn't understand what they said and I refuse to watch with captions on.
Ep 6 was terrific. Felt exactly like classic Trek. Fully on board with this now. :tup
Ep 6 was terrific. Felt exactly like classic Trek. Fully on board with this now. :tup
Yeah I liked that one too.
Had a cool ending, I thought. Not sure it was a great finale, but was a cool episode.
There's a video of the side by side comparison of 'Balance of Terror' from the OT....pretty neat. Having never watched a single episode of the OT (I got into Trek with ANG) I wasn't aware of how much influence BOT had on this episode. It was all really well done.Balance of Terror was wonderful. And it was largely a scene by scene retelling of The Enemy Below, with Shatner and Mark Leonard in the Mitchum and Curd Jurgens roles. Wonderful movie, too.
https://gizmodo.com/star-trek-strange-new-worlds-finale-balance-of-terror-1849165568
David Warner passed away :'(
I've really been hoping to see Gul Madred again, but the article that I read upon Warner's death, mentioned he only appeared in Star Trek once.
Phenomenal actor, amazing role and a great episode.
RIP David Warner and bye bye Gul Madred, there are 4 lights, you dick!
David Warner passed away :'(
I've really been hoping to see Gul Madred again, but the article that I read upon Warner's death, mentioned he only appeared in Star Trek once.
Phenomenal actor, amazing role and a great episode.
RIP David Warner and bye bye Gul Madred, there are 4 lights, you dick!
David Warner passed away :'(
I've really been hoping to see Gul Madred again, but the article that I read upon Warner's death, mentioned he only appeared in Star Trek once.
Phenomenal actor, amazing role and a great episode.
RIP David Warner and bye bye Gul Madred, there are 4 lights, you dick!
He was also Chancellor Gorkon in Star Trek VI.
She's told the story of how she met Martin Luther King during the show's run, and was surprised to find he was a fan of hers, and how he convinced her to stay with the show when she was considering leaving. He told her of the importance she had for the viewers, seeing a black woman as on officer on the bridge, even if she often didn't have much to do or say. Thank you for keeping the hailing frequencies open for us, Nichelle.
Yeah, fingers crossed for a couple of banging episodes.
Watched it. Say it, Soupy.
Watched it. Say it, Soupy.
Killing a main character - It doesn't help that Hemmer was a good and unique character! I just don't get it.
What was the last 10 seconds UK thing you mentioned, out of interest?
Another thing about SNW - I love the Spock/Chapel thing.
I'm not sure why but SNW Pike isn't as good as Disco Pike
Another thing about SNW - I love the Spock/Chapel thing.
I think they are the two best characters. I'm not sure why but SNW Pike isn't as good as Disco Pike - maybe they are trying to make him too likeable?
I'm not sure why but SNW Pike isn't as good as Disco Pike
Will respectfully disagree with you on this one. If not for Pike/Anson Mount SNW's doesn't work. He elevates the show to a new level and everyone else (actors) feed off his awesomeness.
Another thing about SNW - I love the Spock/Chapel thing.
I think they are the two best characters. I'm not sure why but SNW Pike isn't as good as Disco Pike - maybe they are trying to make him too likeable?
Well, I will disrespectfully disagree you chav, manky, pikey, trollop! (Thank you google)
You and I seem like a yin yang on Star Trek. We just seem to like mostly the opposite stuff with a little in common. But you know what means?
(https://c.tenor.com/yzT87sw2SZgAAAAC/tom-cruise-jerry-maguire.gif)
I'm not sure why but SNW Pike isn't as good as Disco Pike
Will respectfully disagree with you on this one. If not for Pike/Anson Mount SNW's doesn't work. He elevates the show to a new level and everyone else (actors) feed off his awesomeness.
That's pretty much what happened in season 2 of Disco. Just think he was a more natural character then, he's still good but in SNW undoubtedly though, but the writing is nearly all about reminding us how likeable he is, whereas on Disco the character was pretty much a blank canvas and it was the sheer awesomeness of Mounts performance that won me over.
Liked the last episode, although it played the time travel trick to ramp tension in a way that was always simply going to be reset, it was still a well written story and it gave us Pike front and centre being the emotional core which helped with the issues I had with the character I mentioned last week. But there was one major issue with this episode.....the Kirk actor was weak, flat performance lacking the fun and charisma of Kirk and felt way to much like he was trying to act like Kirk than being natural (like Chris Pine did so well). He also seemed to be too old for young Kirk and weirdly looked like the love child of Bruce Campbell and Jim Carrey.
Liked the last episode, although it played the time travel trick to ramp tension in a way that was always simply going to be reset, it was still a well written story and it gave us Pike front and centre being the emotional core which helped with the issues I had with the character I mentioned last week. But there was one major issue with this episode.....the Kirk actor was weak, flat performance lacking the fun and charisma of Kirk and felt way to much like he was trying to act like Kirk than being natural (like Chris Pine did so well). He also seemed to be too old for young Kirk and weirdly looked like the love child of Bruce Campbell and Jim Carrey.
For whatever reason, it's an immensely bland take on arguably the most iconic sci-fi character ever.
You going for Disco season 4 DoctorAction? I'm toying with starting it.......Adami - Disco 4 better or worst than 3?
For whatever reason, it's an immensely bland take on arguably the most iconic sci-fi character ever.
I'm toying with starting it.......Adami - Disco 4 better or worst than 3?
Apparently the guy who played Hemmer was blind in real life. Wonder if that's a case for the appropriation thread.
In any case, he might have been my favorite character. Shame to see him go, but his death was a good one. At least he didn't get the Tasha Yar or Jadzia treatment.
I haven't seen the last episode yet, but the season certainly seemed to start stronger than it finished. The fairy tail thing was insufferable. There was way too much with the gorn and Spock's girlfriend(s). And while Pike is not only the greatest captain in Federation history, he's starting to take on a Mike Brady-like appearance as the galaxy's greatest dad. Still like the show, and I'm looking forward to the next season, but it's not without its flaws.
At this point my favorite character is looking like Ortega. Didn't like her at first, but she's actually taken on a bit of an everyman kind of persona as the one character that doesn't have some overly dramatic backstory. She seems like a normal chick who's content to just enjoy her lot in life. Apparently the actress patterned her character after Riker, and it kind of shows. Be good at your job and have fun when you're not working. Not very many of those in the modern ST universe.
Lower Decks season 3 premiered. I loved it. It’s been bumped from 1st to 2nd favorite new ST show thanks to SNW, but it’s still refreshing and wonderful.
After it was over, P+ started Star Trek:Prodigy, which I didn’t even know existed. But 10 minutes in, it feels more like Star Wars Rebels than a Star Trek show.
I have never watched Discovery. No plans to.Do what I did. Just watch all of the scenes with Q on Youtube and skip the rest. Like you I have no interest in the series, but putting a fitting end to the Q story was a damn fine thing to do. And it was nice for Picard to finally give him the appreciation he deserved.
My wife and I subscribed to Paramount Plus the last couple of weeks and we watched the first season of Picard. For context, I'm a lifelong Trekker. Fell in love with the original crew feature films when I started watching them in the 80s, TNG was "my crew," DS9 is my favorite Trek series. I watched some of Voyager, and a little bit of Enterprise. I liked them okay, but much less than DS9, TNG and the original crew. That said, I did not really care for how TNG translated to the big screen. After Generations, which was pretty good, I thought the subsequent TNG films were worse and worse. My wife has seen the Trek films, sporadic episodes, and she thinks its all okay. She's a sci-fi fan, just not a huge Trek fan.
I say all that in preface to our reaction to Picard. Put simply - the plot was all over the place. I know some folks likely haven't seen it, so I'll try to be vague. But while I really liked the premise of where Picard was, what was troubling him, and how he as a person got further back to what we all remember, all the side points and plots were all over the map, many of them being unnecessary. The new characters (particularly the one that calls him JL) were all just half-baked and silly to me. The...(again, trying to be vague) "lets throw these folks in there" mentality of the first season was silly. The funny thing is, the on screen chemistry between Picard and those familiar folks was perfect. But it just felt like things were slapped in there. The half baked storyline of the...young Romulan...got introduced, and never really had a chance to properly develop.
Ultimately, the resulting end of season 1, and what happened with Picard was...not surprising. I called it early in the series as events unfolded and that "condition" kept being mentioned and what could fix it. And it made sense. But everything to get there...just so many unnecessary things. I know Paramount is desperate to make Star Trek popular again with the masses, particularly given what Star Wars has done in recent years for Disney. But trotting a legendary character like Picard out there, and then haphazardly throwing in so much garbage (did we really need what's her name vaping? I'm no prude, and have a bad mouth myself, but was all the vulgarity necessary? Trek never needed that before, etc.), it really left me annoyed.
The ending with...Picard's main hangup, I thought was...fitting. But how they got there left a lot to be desired, IMO.
We won't be watching Season 2.
Do what I did. Just watch all of the scenes with Q on Youtube and skip the rest. Like you I have no interest in the series, but putting a fitting end to the Q story was a damn fine thing to do. And it was nice for Picard to finally give him the appreciation he deserved.
I know I'll have to finish watching season 2 (or at least I've decided to) at some point before season 3 comes out. But the idea of rewatching season 1 or even the few episodes I've already seen of season 2 just makes my dick shrivel.
Do what I did. Just watch all of the scenes with Q on Youtube and skip the rest. Like you I have no interest in the series, but putting a fitting end to the Q story was a damn fine thing to do. And it was nice for Picard to finally give him the appreciation he deserved.
He made Picard a better person. JLP would probably be the first to admit that. Even when Q was being bothersome it was usually still in Picard's/humanity's best interest. When Q introduced the Borg, Picard's closing thought was that he might have done them a favor. A kick in their complacency, as he put it. He certainly did him a solid in Tapestry, giving him the benefit of perspective. Picard admitted a debt of gratitude. He pretty much saved the day in All Good Things. Without his intervention the anomaly wipes everything out. And yet Picard's initial reaction every time he saw Q was an exasperated "Oh, what do you want now?" From what I can tell Q's involvement in this last season of Picard was much of the same, teaching Picard a valuable lesson, but this time Picard recognized the fondness Q's shown in him. "Even gods have their favorites."Do what I did. Just watch all of the scenes with Q on Youtube and skip the rest. Like you I have no interest in the series, but putting a fitting end to the Q story was a damn fine thing to do. And it was nice for Picard to finally give him the appreciation he deserved.
I've always hated Q, so, to me, the "appreciation he deserved" is what he got from Sisko.
What I've seen and read about season 2 of Picard, Q's purpose is whatever the plot wants it to be at any given moment. Apparently (and this is just based on reviews) his final stated purpose flies in the face of whatever he did prior.
He made Picard a better person. JLP would probably be the first to admit that. Even when Q was being bothersome it was usually still in Picard's/humanity's best interest. When Q introduced the Borg, Picard's closing thought was that he might have done them a favor. A kick in their complacency, as he put it. He certainly did him a solid in Tapestry, giving him the benefit of perspective. Picard admitted a debt of gratitude. He pretty much saved the day in All Good Things. Without his intervention the anomaly wipes everything out. And yet Picard's initial reaction every time he saw Q was an exasperated "Oh, what do you want now?" From what I can tell Q's involvement in this last season of Picard was much of the same, teaching Picard a valuable lesson, but this time Picard recognized the fondness Q's shown in him. "Even gods have their favorites."Do what I did. Just watch all of the scenes with Q on Youtube and skip the rest. Like you I have no interest in the series, but putting a fitting end to the Q story was a damn fine thing to do. And it was nice for Picard to finally give him the appreciation he deserved.
I've always hated Q, so, to me, the "appreciation he deserved" is what he got from Sisko.
Tuvok is a lieutenant and he's been in Star Fleet since at least the Kirk days. Dude isn't an Admiral by now? I feel like a human character tends to go from Ensign to Captain within a few decades. Tuvok's been doing this for over 100 years and not even a commander yet? Same with Spock and any other Vulcan. Just seems odd.
Haven't posted much about my rewatch, but I am on season 5 of Voyager, season 7 of DS9 and I just watched Insurrection.Was it ever mentioned how long he was out of star fleet between serving on the Excelsior and serving later under Janeway? He mentioned there was a significant gap before he rejoined SF. We also don't know how long he was undercover with the Maquis. I suppose it's possible he spent a few years going full on Donnie Brasko on them. He also spent a very long time teaching at the academy (both Vulcan and Star Fleet), and it's certainly possible that rank won't advance as quickly. Suffice it to say, there's no way he was "doing this" for over 100 years. His time serving on a starship might have been fairly limited, and that's really the only reference we have.
DS9 has been fantastic with a few misses, but god damn is it good. Voyager has been more misses, but I'm still really enjoying it despite that. Not nearly as good as DS9 or TNG, but a lot of good stuff. Insurrection was a re-write away from being a great movie, but still was mostly enjoyable.
That said, I did have one thought. Why does it take Vulcans so long to work their way up the rank system?
Tuvok is a lieutenant and he's been in Star Fleet since at least the Kirk days. Dude isn't an Admiral by now? I feel like a human character tends to go from Ensign to Captain within a few decades. Tuvok's been doing this for over 100 years and not even a commander yet? Same with Spock and any other Vulcan. Just seems odd.
According to MA it was 50 years between his tour on Excelsior and his return to Star Fleet, where he had to re-complete academy training. That thing with Sulu must have really pissed him off. Sixteen years teaching at the academy. Four years stationed on Jupiter Station. By the time of Caretaker, when he was 107 years old, he'd actually spent very little of his life "in space."
On the part of my DS9 rewatch where a Bajoran looking Dukat keeps addressing Winn as Adami in a seductive tone, and it's deeply unsettling.
On the part of my DS9 rewatch where a Bajoran looking Dukat keeps addressing Winn as Adami in a seductive tone, and it's deeply unsettling.
Cautiously optimistic. I too hope that they can go out on a high note.
On the part of my DS9 rewatch where a Bajoran looking Dukat keeps addressing Winn as Adami in a seductive tone, and it's deeply unsettling.
Just finished DS9.
What a great finale. Just a tremendous show. I think I was more intrigued and impressed by Nana and Kira and her whole arc this time. But really, this was just a fantastic show.
Still have 2 seasons of Voyager left and then that awful Nemesis movie.
Hmm... Spaceship!!
Could it be a better TNG send-off than Nemesis, though? I'll probably give it a go for the cast and characters. I've not watched S2 - do you think it'll matter?
Hopefully it's not abysmal, but the trailer is too dramatic, too serious and over the top for me.
I do like the two Moriarty episodes. They came up while I was down with C19. No idea how (or why) you'd base a whole series on him, though. He was a good single episode antagonist. Also, if Worf actually is a pacifist now that'd be pretty funny.Hopefully it's not abysmal, but the trailer is too dramatic, too serious and over the top for me.
Very serious. And then freaking Moriarti shows up and I almost clicked out of it.
1 of the top 5 most Murdered Franchises
https://youtu.be/UGeOxeBoJvA?t=441
1 of the top 5 most Murdered Franchises
https://youtu.be/UGeOxeBoJvA?t=441
That's just angry clickbait nonsense.
1 of the top 5 most Murdered Franchises
https://youtu.be/UGeOxeBoJvA?t=441
That's just angry clickbait nonsense.
Can't say I disagreed with him in pretty much everyhting he said...
I'm 3 episodes into Strange New Worlds and very much enjoying the episodic nature. WAY better than Picard and Discovery.
I'm 3 episodes into Strange New Worlds and very much enjoying the episodic nature. WAY better than Picard and Discovery.
Seriously the best new ST show. I hope it’s getting all the praise and attention it deserves because I haven’t seen a lot of buzz around it. But maybe I just missed it.
I'm 3 episodes into Strange New Worlds and very much enjoying the episodic nature. WAY better than Picard and Discovery.
Seriously the best new ST show. I hope it’s getting all the praise and attention it deserves because I haven’t seen a lot of buzz around it. But maybe I just missed it.
I hope it doesn't suffer from Bumblebee syndrome. Where the first 4-5 whatever Transformers movies had become SO bad that even though Bumblebee was really good, it was too little too late and the awfulness of the other movies ruined its chances. I hope Picard and Discovery and their awfulness hasn't ruined SNW's chances.
I'm 3 episodes into Strange New Worlds and very much enjoying the episodic nature. WAY better than Picard and Discovery.
Seriously the best new ST show. I hope it’s getting all the praise and attention it deserves because I haven’t seen a lot of buzz around it. But maybe I just missed it.
I hope it doesn't suffer from Bumblebee syndrome. Where the first 4-5 whatever Transformers movies had become SO bad that even though Bumblebee was really good, it was too little too late and the awfulness of the other movies ruined its chances. I hope Picard and Discovery and their awfulness hasn't ruined SNW's chances.
I thought the Bumblebee syndrome was when an average movie gets overrated by by virtue of the fact that the previous films were so terrible that even something half competent seems really good by contrast. ;D
Kira is your default angry Bajoran lady, almost a clone of Michelle Forbes TNG character, except Kira is very one dimensional, although she does not have an irritating presence. Another character that clearly has much potential to grow.
I feel like it would have been awesome to just bring Michelle Forbes character over here, instead of writing Kira, since Forbes has been gone from TNG for at least a season.
I'm back on Star Trek after a few month hiatus.Always enjoy reading your ST posts.
Towards the end of TNG's season 7 and DS9's season 2, I'm very much enjoying swinging between them by airdate until TNG ends.
So many thoughts I wanted to share along the way since I last posted here, although that's not what I came to talk about.
I'll miss TNG when it's over, that show really looped onto itself though; season 7 almost matches season 1 in quality, it's come full circle :lol
Real quick though, anyone here ever lived in a rental apartments complex in the U.S maybe familiar with the sight of the two in-house handymen going around the complex in a golf cart, fixing everything that needs to be fixed, from changing light bulbs to spraying for pests and beyond. I don't know why but the frequency of which we see Data and Georgi crawl around the Enterprise with a toolbox to fix this or that in the later seasons, just got me to the point where I can't help but think of the two handymen from the apartments heh
But I'm here to say DS9 is blowing me away, truly excellent so far. I feel like I shouldn't name certain aspects that I like about it since I'm sure I'll leave a lot of stuff out. Season 1 came out firing on all cylinders, more great episodes than average ones, but I dare say their season 2 matches TNG's season 4 in quality, that shit is just so well written! I can only imagine what they could have done without the budget and technological limitations of 1990's TV.
When it comes to cast, with DS9 we start with more likeable actors than I did with TNG. I was initially not impressed by Sisko, whom the actor plays with the same approach he would for playing a high school principal for some reason, but he grew on me fast, for the most part he feels like one of the cast, not the main character, unlike what we had with Kirk and Picard. Dude is very.. mundane? Might not be the right word, but he just wants to do his job and get off at 5, maybe 3 on Friday. Which is funny cause he's got himself an engineer that matches his energy level perfectly heh
Speaking of old O'Brien, the actor has changed his approach significantly here. As soon as he got on DS9 his sleeves got permanently rolled up and he now sports a Scotty attitude of the highest I'm-giving-her-all-she's-got caliber, which is fine; better than what he was on TNG.
Dax is played by a weak actress, just like Troi was, but the actress playing Dax is beautiful, so she's good. May sound sexist, but I apply the same standard to actors. It also helps that Dax is a WAY more interesting character on paper than Troi ever was. I make the comparison cause they're both the weakest links on start up.
Bashir, what a fucking ass, easily the worst character on paper. I'm hoping he either gets Tasha-Yar'ed soon or gets some better writing for his character. I actually hope for the latter since I know Doran Martell is capable of fine acting.
Odo is a very interesting character, his very presence and role on DS9 is a stretch in the context of the world. The actor is excellent and the character seems to already show so many layers to look forward to.
Kira is your default angry Bajoran lady, almost a clone of Michelle Forbes TNG character, except Kira is very one dimensional, although she does not have an irritating presence. Another character that clearly has much potential to grow.
I feel like it would have been awesome to just bring Michelle Forbes character over here, instead of writing Kira, since Forbes has been gone from TNG for at least a season.
Last but not least; Quark. Easily my favorite. Most entertaining to watch and best actor on the show, under a ton of make-up; he still managed to make this character shine beyond anything I would have expected from a Ferengi. There were never any odds that one of my favorite Star Trek characters ever could be a Ferengi, that dude made it happen.
There hasn't been a scene on DS9 with Quark present that he doesn't force me to stay fixated on him, he's never just there, never just waiting to say his line, so many little nuances and reactions. Quark is probably the most complete character on this shows, as in the most fully fleshed out and absorbed by his actor.
So much more I'd like to share about how TNG and DS9 have been since I last posted but I gotta run, will try to stop by again soon!
This is shitty:It was wrong to tell her. At the same time, regardless of how we each define it, I think the producers are allowed to seek out maximum sex appeal if that's what they're angling for. They saw what it did for VOY and were looking for the same thing. I don't think that's any big secret. And it probably worked to their advantage in the long run.
https://trekmovie.com/2023/01/04/supernatural-actress-kim-rhodes-was-rejected-as-tpol-on-star-trek-enterprise-for-wrong-body-type/
Crusher's Grandmother's candle
No snark.
What did you find charming and engaging about Voyager? For me it was generally consistent in its mediocrity, which made it OK to watch but rarely registered more than I shrug. Even the shows strongest attribute 'The Doctor' was generally served poorly as episodes whereby he was the main focus were more often than not weak.
BUT THAT RED DRESS!!!
Finished Picard season 2. I could write a whole lot about what I hated about this show. Instead, I will say that I thought it was WITHOUT using the word dumb.
The show was ....absurd, cretinous, daft, foolish, half-witted, idiotic, inane, moronic, thick, dense, dim-written, brainless, obtuse, naïve, blithering, imbecilic and doltish.
And while it made no sense in context, out of context the goodbye between Picard and Q was well done only because of those two actors.
So happy to be done and hoping season 3 is better.
At this point I'm Charlie Brown and Picard is that damn Lucy and the football.
I know what's going to happen. It keeps happening. They pretend like it won't happen but I know better.
And I'm still going to try anyway because I'm a sucker.
And while it made no sense in context, out of context the goodbye between Picard and Q was well done only because of those two actors.
At this point I'm Charlie Brown and Picard is that damn Lucy and the football.
I know what's going to happen. It keeps happening. They pretend like it won't happen but I know better.
And I'm still going to try anyway because I'm a sucker.
You're such a masochist. I'd advise coming up with a safe word for S3 in case they really go off the rails.
At this point I'm Charlie Brown and Picard is that damn Lucy and the football.
I know what's going to happen. It keeps happening. They pretend like it won't happen but I know better.
And I'm still going to try anyway because I'm a sucker.
Did I see Moriarty in that trailer??
You what would be great?
If it was all those brain worms from Season 1! It was all a conspiracy! You thought they were just a one off that disappeared and was forgotten…but NOOOOOOOOO!!! It was them all along!!!
Did I see Moriarty in that trailer??More importantly, did I see the Narada in that trailer?
Did I see Moriarty in that trailer??
-sigh-....yes....yes you did.
Also newest and last trailer.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lw0pg11OzCQ
This one looks completely atrocious and almost like they're just trolling the fans. It's like they said "Well, we clearly have way too much explosions and fighting and stuff.....so....let's keep doing that but also make fun of ourselves for doing it so people will be okay with it."
I will happily be your Star Trek canary in the coalmine. :lol
I'll tune in for Season 3. If it looks horrid by the end of episode 3, I'll check out. The trailer...didn't do much for me.
I think part of TNG's charm was the warmth and light. The whole television series was well-lit, and had this very familiar style to it. I'm not sure how else to describe it. Then everyone got cold and dark with the feature films, and I just never felt like TNG worked with that kind of production. Too early to tell, but this looks, based on the trailer, as more of the same.
I'll tune in for Season 3. If it looks horrid by the end of episode 3, I'll check out. The trailer...didn't do much for me.
I think part of TNG's charm was the warmth and light. The whole television series was well-lit, and had this very familiar style to it. I'm not sure how else to describe it. Then everyone got cold and dark with the feature films, and I just never felt like TNG worked with that kind of production. Too early to tell, but this looks, based on the trailer, as more of the same.
I was thinking the same thing. The Enterprise-D was always so bright and spacious. Since then, ships have been getting progressively more dark and cramped.
Annie Werching passed away at 45! R.I.P.
I was hoping for some reassurance that I did not, in fact, see what I thought I saw.Did I see Moriarty in that trailer??More importantly, did I see the Narada in that trailer?
Boy, I hope not.
I was hoping for some reassurance that I did not, in fact, see what I thought I saw.Did I see Moriarty in that trailer??More importantly, did I see the Narada in that trailer?
Boy, I hope not.
You what would be great?
If it was all those brain worms from Season 1! It was all a conspiracy! You thought they were just a one off that disappeared and was forgotten…but NOOOOOOOOO!!! It was them all along!!!
Ha! I believe that was supposed to be the start of a big story arc for TNG but like you said it was never referred again................till now!
I'll tune in for Season 3. If it looks horrid by the end of episode 3, I'll check out. The trailer...didn't do much for me.
I think part of TNG's charm was the warmth and light. The whole television series was well-lit, and had this very familiar style to it. I'm not sure how else to describe it. Then everyone got cold and dark with the feature films, and I just never felt like TNG worked with that kind of production. Too early to tell, but this looks, based on the trailer, as more of the same.
I think Strange New Worlds Enterprise was decently bright and well lit. At least on par with TOS.
I'll tune in for Season 3. If it looks horrid by the end of episode 3, I'll check out. The trailer...didn't do much for me.
I think part of TNG's charm was the warmth and light. The whole television series was well-lit, and had this very familiar style to it. I'm not sure how else to describe it. Then everyone got cold and dark with the feature films, and I just never felt like TNG worked with that kind of production. Too early to tell, but this looks, based on the trailer, as more of the same.
Picard's fault - he only allows 4 lights.
Someone posted a review of Picard Season 3 and it's brutal. But also funny and completely believable.
Don’t watch ‘Star Trek: Picard’ season three, it’ll only encourage them (https://finance.yahoo.com/news/star-trek-picard-season-three-paramount-plus-preview-review-080010650.html)
Someone posted a review of Picard Season 3 and it's brutal. But also funny and completely believable.
Don’t watch ‘Star Trek: Picard’ season three, it’ll only encourage them (https://finance.yahoo.com/news/star-trek-picard-season-three-paramount-plus-preview-review-080010650.html)
Yeah.....i don't think even if Adami endorses it that I'll waste my time on that....or finishing out S2.
Also, not sure if anyone has seen/heard these, but Trip and Reed from Enterprise have their own Star Trek podcast where they do lengthy interviews with various Trek folk. I haven't seen much but what I have seen was pretty good. They get pretty blunt and honest about things, as do their guests, and go into some interesting depth.
Yeah.....i don't think even if Adami endorses it that I'll waste my time on that....or finishing out S2.
Seconded. But I think we can be quite assured that Adami won’t be endorsing this tripe.
Yeah, it's actually quite horrifying.Also, not sure if anyone has seen/heard these, but Trip and Reed from Enterprise have their own Star Trek podcast where they do lengthy interviews with various Trek folk. I haven't seen much but what I have seen was pretty good. They get pretty blunt and honest about things, as do their guests, and go into some interesting depth.
Hmmm....interesting. Although I'd be more interested in a T'pol old school fitness video?
Yeah, it's actually quite horrifying.Also, not sure if anyone has seen/heard these, but Trip and Reed from Enterprise have their own Star Trek podcast where they do lengthy interviews with various Trek folk. I haven't seen much but what I have seen was pretty good. They get pretty blunt and honest about things, as do their guests, and go into some interesting depth.
Hmmm....interesting. Although I'd be more interested in a T'pol old school fitness video?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ov7bmslydJY&ab_channel=WorldBeauty_entertainment
The thing is it doesn’t matter how bad it is. They won’t learn or care. A portion of the fan base will think it’s amazing and will love what I assume are 20-30 referrences and be perfectly satisfied with “oh I remember that!”I mean, I'm still gonna watch it.
Everyone else will be brushed off as haters, gatekeepers, purists, Stadlers, or people who just don’t appreciate change and anything new. It makes no difference.
Well, it's a trainwreck but I'll keep on watching it. For a moment I thought Crusher was badly CGI generated.
I will see that the score is glorious. Which makes sense, because it is just lifted themes of Jerry Goldsmith from the films.
But it sounds great.
I also really liked Captain Shaw. And by "liked" I mean, he's a son of a bitch (he deleted Riker's jazz library from the Titan!) and I hate him, but the actor is great and I love watching him.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/movies/news/star-trek-the-motion-picture-gets-new-direct-sequel-with-original-cast/ar-AA17x8pJ?fbclid=IwAR0Kw0196HrAzE2sJ5FHcs5N6zsyBUFTtnO0qBU7G3sVVh3qwky0b2fX_AUNot animated form. It's a comic book.
The original 1st Film sequel in animated form coming with original cast
https://www.msn.com/en-us/movies/news/star-trek-the-motion-picture-gets-new-direct-sequel-with-original-cast/ar-AA17x8pJ?fbclid=IwAR0Kw0196HrAzE2sJ5FHcs5N6zsyBUFTtnO0qBU7G3sVVh3qwky0b2fX_AUNot animated form. It's a comic book.
The original 1st Film sequel in animated form coming with original cast
Interesting how many references and callbacks, even to TOS were in this first episode:
https://youtu.be/BBqgSS7VhM8 (https://youtu.be/BBqgSS7VhM8)
Interesting how many references and callbacks, even to TOS were in this first episode:
https://youtu.be/BBqgSS7VhM8 (https://youtu.be/BBqgSS7VhM8)
This annoys me without even knowing the details. Can't ST just be a good story? I am just so sick of 500 easter eggs and references. I don't watch ST for member berries, but they know it's what sells. Crappy episode? Who cares, I saw so many things I remembered. It's just so cynical and insulting.
The only thing I really didn't like was that raffia chick. Anything and everything she did or said made little sense.
I’m less than 5 minutes into episode one, and it’s SO STAR WARS I CANNOT BELIEVE IT!!
I’m less than 5 minutes into episode one, and it’s SO STAR WARS I CANNOT BELIEVE IT!!
Of season 3? It gets better. Then it gets worse and then back and forth but the first 5-10 min are awful.
Spoilers....
Jack is Picards son? Are they saying accents are genetic? Also the actor was born in 1988. Does that mean He was born when TNG started? Or is he playing a 20 year old for some reason and Beverly had him when she was 53? All of it is stupid. Hoping it's a fake out, but that would be dumb too.
Ugh.
Picard and Crusher got it on in when they were under the influence of the mind altering thing in 'The Naked Now'. Crusher gave Picard added a memory suppressant to his antidote, so he'd forget. Crusher found out she was pregnant and requested a transfer once the bump started to show, the enterprise got a new Doctor in Pulaski, while Crusher gave birth on Earth. Crusher returned to the enterprise once she'd found a suitable adoptor and recovered emotionally.
Simples.... ;D
Picard and Crusher got it on in when they were under the influence of the mind altering thing in 'The Naked Now'. Crusher gave Picard added a memory suppressant to his antidote, so he'd forget. Crusher found out she was pregnant and requested a transfer once the bump started to show, the enterprise got a new Doctor in Pulaski, while Crusher gave birth on Earth. Crusher returned to the enterprise once she'd found a suitable adoptor and recovered emotionally.
Simples.... ;D
Sadly they might actually do that. I hadn’t thought of using season 2 as an explanation but it’s just dumb enough to happen.
Picard and Crusher got it on in when they were under the influence of the mind altering thing in 'The Naked Now'. Crusher gave Picard added a memory suppressant to his antidote, so he'd forget. Crusher found out she was pregnant and requested a transfer once the bump started to show, the enterprise got a new Doctor in Pulaski, while Crusher gave birth on Earth. Crusher returned to the enterprise once she'd found a suitable adoptor and recovered emotionally.
Simples.... ;D
Sadly they might actually do that. I hadn’t thought of using season 2 as an explanation but it’s just dumb enough to happen.
Shot me down! I was quite proud of that :-\
On a side note I going to binge watch this when it's all available, only want to pay for 1 month paramount +.
Why is he British? Having a British dad doesn't give you an accent.
Picard and Crusher got it on in when they were under the influence of the mind altering thing in 'The Naked Now'. Crusher gave Picard added a memory suppressant to his antidote, so he'd forget. Crusher found out she was pregnant and requested a transfer once the bump started to show, the enterprise got a new Doctor in Pulaski, while Crusher gave birth on Earth. Crusher returned to the enterprise once she'd found a suitable adoptor and recovered emotionally.
Simples.... ;D
Sadly they might actually do that. I hadn’t thought of using season 2 as an explanation but it’s just dumb enough to happen.
Shot me down! I was quite proud of that :-\
On a side note I going to binge watch this when it's all available, only want to pay for 1 month paramount +.
Here in my country, I can watch Picard with my Prime Video account. Screw Paramount+ ;D. Sadly I would need a Paramount+ subscription for Strange New Worlds..
Why is he British? Having a British dad doesn't give you an accent.
- Beverly 'John Mcclane' Crusher - No, no and no. Also maybe I'm wrong here but doesn't Bev cutting off the rest of the crew for 20 years contradict canon?
- Beverly 'John Mcclane' Crusher - No, no and no. Also maybe I'm wrong here but doesn't Bev cutting off the rest of the crew for 20 years contradict canon?
Every time I see the word "canon" related to ST it's kind of jarring. That was a concept that became meaningless 15 years ago, and now it's something so completely warped and twisted it has no real meaning or relevance.
Agree about Frakes. Dude is just fun as hell to watch and still feels like Riker.
Mostly agree about the new captain. A real dick, but one you understood and could get behind. But then in episode 2 he is just content letting Riker and Picard die. I get the logic, but that is NOT what Starfleet is about at all, so he lost a lot of points with me based solely on that.
Agree about Frakes. Dude is just fun as hell to watch and still feels like Riker.
Mostly agree about the new captain. A real dick, but one you understood and could get behind. But then in episode 2 he is just content letting Riker and Picard die. I get the logic, but that is NOT what Starfleet is about at all, so he lost a lot of points with me based solely on that.
He was putting his crew before 2 people but we know the old axiom. The needs of one.........
I'm saying I agree with you. Any of the old series, they've charge right in and try to sav their own. I was just pointing out what Kirk would do. And Picard. and Janeway. And Sisko....
To be fair, we don't know what all Starfleet captains do. We've only seen a relative handful, and by default (since they are the ones that star in shows) they have been depicted as being the best of the best, the paragons in their fields. I have no expectation that all captains conduct their commands the same way. Not all military officers conduct their commands the same way, and for that matter, not all supervisors/managers conduct their business the same way.Agree about Frakes. Dude is just fun as hell to watch and still feels like Riker.
Mostly agree about the new captain. A real dick, but one you understood and could get behind. But then in episode 2 he is just content letting Riker and Picard die. I get the logic, but that is NOT what Starfleet is about at all, so he lost a lot of points with me based solely on that.
He was putting his crew before 2 people but we know the old axiom. The needs of one.........
But that's not what Starfleet does. And his response was like "well....they knew what they were doing, so screw them."
You get creative and find ways to help. That's what a Starfleet captain does.
Agree about Frakes. Dude is just fun as hell to watch and still feels like Riker.
I have that, on my bookshelf as we speak, alongside Star Trek Chronology: The History of the Future from the same time period.Agree about Frakes. Dude is just fun as hell to watch and still feels like Riker.
It won't feel like ole Riker unless he pulls out a trombone, or steps over the back of a chair - assuming Frakes can without breaking a hip.
Also, I meant to post this earlier, but the whole "raise shields" when the ship is at Red Alert is so annoying. I had a Technical Manual (https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Star_Trek:_The_Next_Generation_Technical_Manual) for Enterprise D (probably still have it around somewhere), and in one chapter, it details what happens to the ship functions at yellow and red alert. Shields automatically go to full at Red Alert.
(https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/memoryalpha/images/f/f3/Star_Trek_The_Next_Generation_Technical_Manual_(US_1st).jpg/revision/latest?cb=20120415173604&path-prefix=en)
I had the 1975 original. Plus the blueprints. :biggrin:Agree about Frakes. Dude is just fun as hell to watch and still feels like Riker.
It won't feel like ole Riker unless he pulls out a trombone, or steps over the back of a chair - assuming Frakes can without breaking a hip.
Also, I meant to post this earlier, but the whole "raise shields" when the ship is at Red Alert is so annoying. I had a Technical Manual (https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Star_Trek:_The_Next_Generation_Technical_Manual) for Enterprise D (probably still have it around somewhere), and in one chapter, it details what happens to the ship functions at yellow and red alert. Shields automatically go to full at Red Alert.
(https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/memoryalpha/images/f/f3/Star_Trek_The_Next_Generation_Technical_Manual_(US_1st).jpg/revision/latest?cb=20120415173604&path-prefix=en)
What canon even exists in the time period between Nemesis and Picard?
At this point I wouldn't be shocked if Riker took out his trombone and beat someone to death with it.
At this point I wouldn't be shocked if Riker took out his trombone and beat someone to death with it.
I don't condone violence against women, but just saying if he did this to Raffi....
Not sure Wesley can be killed at this point, since he is the Traveller.
At this point I wouldn't be shocked if Riker took out his trombone and beat someone to death with it.
I don't condone violence against women, but just saying if he did this to Raffi....
What canon even exists in the time period between Nemesis and Picard?
There's a comic book that takes place leading into ST 2009 that bridges it with the TNG people. I don't remember the details but I know B4 became Data who is now a captain. I know the rest show up too and I think that was said to be canon.
I'd say sorry for the spoilers, but honestly? The only spoiler alert is that everything is awful.
But yes, he shows up. You can just youtube the scene. Seeing it completely out of context makes absolutely NO difference. Seeing it in the show itself didn't help it make any more sense that it does in a standalone clip.
I'd say sorry for the spoilers, but honestly? The only spoiler alert is that everything is awful.Didn't it turn out that he and the Traveler are Controllers, a la Gary Seven? I mean, at this point why the hell not? If you're going to shoehorn in pointless callbacks, at least choose interesting ones.
But yes, he shows up. You can just youtube the scene. Seeing it completely out of context makes absolutely NO difference. Seeing it in the show itself didn't help it make any more sense that it does in a standalone clip.
I'd say sorry for the spoilers, but honestly? The only spoiler alert is that everything is awful.Didn't it turn out that he and the Traveler are Controllers, a la Gary Seven? I mean, at this point why the hell not? If you're going to shoehorn in pointless callbacks, at least choose interesting ones.
But yes, he shows up. You can just youtube the scene. Seeing it completely out of context makes absolutely NO difference. Seeing it in the show itself didn't help it make any more sense that it does in a standalone clip.
He's Gary Seven's Boss? Criminy.I'd say sorry for the spoilers, but honestly? The only spoiler alert is that everything is awful.Didn't it turn out that he and the Traveler are Controllers, a la Gary Seven? I mean, at this point why the hell not? If you're going to shoehorn in pointless callbacks, at least choose interesting ones.
But yes, he shows up. You can just youtube the scene. Seeing it completely out of context makes absolutely NO difference. Seeing it in the show itself didn't help it make any more sense that it does in a standalone clip.
Yea, they work above people like Gary 7. And while I wouldn't call that an interesting callback, I get you. But mostly it's cause he shows up randomly and tells whatever character Brent Spiner playing's daughter and is like "I'm a watcher, we control space and time or something, come be one with us" for no reason what so ever.
Episode 2 was bleh.
Great to see Worf again, shame he's in Raffi's side of the story. Jack seems an OK character I guess. I did like the unspoken scene between Bev and Picard when he realises Jack is his son. Aside from that not much I took from it, are we really going Wrath of Khan next episode?!
Worf killed an unarmed Ferengi half his size. :lol
At least I think he did. That's what it sounded like, but I couldn't see shit. Seems like they weren't content with just making the federation atmospherically and temperamentally dark. They had to make it literally dark now, too.
I think you might be missing the joke, chaver.Worf killed an unarmed Ferengi half his size. :lol
At least I think he did. That's what it sounded like, but I couldn't see shit. Seems like they weren't content with just making the federation atmospherically and temperamentally dark. They had to make it literally dark now, too.
Best I remember he just started decapitating everyone because that’s what a damn warrior does. Cuts off everyone’s head.
(https://i.imgur.com/qtUPpuk.jpg)
Just watched episode 3. Terrible.
I feel like people will like this one a lot more, but it was so much of what I don't like about modern Trek. Everything is dark, gritty, no one is good, conspiracies everywhere, everyone hates everyone, there's no sense of structure or order, it's just chaos all the time.
And the fact that it's better than season 2 doesn't make it remotely good.
Just watched episode 3. Terrible.
I feel like people will like this one a lot more, but it was so much of what I don't like about modern Trek. Everything is dark, gritty, no one is good, conspiracies everywhere, everyone hates everyone, there's no sense of structure or order, it's just chaos all the time.
And the fact that it's better than season 2 doesn't make it remotely good.
Exactly! That's what I said last season!Just watched episode 3. Terrible.
I feel like people will like this one a lot more, but it was so much of what I don't like about modern Trek. Everything is dark, gritty, no one is good, conspiracies everywhere, everyone hates everyone, there's no sense of structure or order, it's just chaos all the time.
And the fact that it's better than season 2 doesn't make it remotely good.
Just go with the flow... It's the Star Trek Multiverse of Madness.
For my part I'm looking at the entire product. Kind of like the tone it sets. TNG was a good show with a good atmosphere that occasionally cranked out stories about horny candles. Despite the low parts it was still a show I liked. Picard (only speaking for the first season, but that hardly matters), was a bad show, though it might well have some good parts. It's not something I enjoy watching, despite occasionally seeing something I like.Exactly! That's what I said last season!Just watched episode 3. Terrible.
I feel like people will like this one a lot more, but it was so much of what I don't like about modern Trek. Everything is dark, gritty, no one is good, conspiracies everywhere, everyone hates everyone, there's no sense of structure or order, it's just chaos all the time.
And the fact that it's better than season 2 doesn't make it remotely good.
Just go with the flow... It's the Star Trek Multiverse of Madness.
But honestly, some of the criticism seems a little harsh to me. Is it perfect? No. But I seem to remember a metric ton of episodes of all of the ST shows that had, shall we say, subpar writing/characterization/plot development. And if you say that doesn't matter, I would just say that it should be all held to the same standard. IMO
I really liked episode 3. Best episode of Picard, and maybe the best episode of Trek since DS9. Some good character moments, exciting action and a couple of twists. I'm sure they'll screw it up next week though 😄
I really liked episode 3. Best episode of Picard, and maybe the best episode of Trek since DS9. Some good character moments, exciting action and a couple of twists. I'm sure they'll screw it up next week though 😄
And we're back to disagreeing! YAY!
Though there were definitely elements I liked. Very few sadly, but we also seem to look for different things.
Not 100% sure how I feel about the villain twist. Won't discuss spoilers for now, but I feel like the idea itself was fine but executed in a pretty awful way, just super rushed and without much meaning. Also don't love how Picard and Riker just so quickly turned on each other, felt forced. Though the two of them (before that) on screen is great to see and it was cool seeing Bev be a doctor again. Even though everyone seemed so needlessly rude to her, but this is modern Trek is all about everyone being a dick to everyone.
https://deadline.com/2023/03/star-trek-discovery-end-fifth-season-canceled-early-2024-paramount-plus-1235277382/
https://deadline.com/2023/03/star-trek-discovery-end-fifth-season-canceled-early-2024-paramount-plus-1235277382/And nothing of value was lost.
Leading up to the final season, Paramount+ will honor the show’s groundbreaking storytelling
Picard S3E3 was ok. There's certainly a lot - LOT - of small moments to nit-pick over - many already mentioned (thanks Adami! :biggrin:)*. My biggest beef was in the false tension that the Titan might actually be destroyed. The only time I can remember tension about the ship being destroyed was in Cause and Effect. That opening segment, when we literally saw the Ent-D blown to bits was like :omg:
Seriously - no anyone actually believes that everyone is about to die. Show me the entire ship getting blown up, and then I'll be like 'ok, how are they going to get out of this one?'.
Picard S3E3 was ok. There's certainly a lot - LOT - of small moments to nit-pick over - many already mentioned (thanks Adami! :biggrin:)*. My biggest beef was in the false tension that the Titan might actually be destroyed. The only time I can remember tension about the ship being destroyed was in Cause and Effect. That opening segment, when we literally saw the Ent-D blown to bits was like :omg:
Seriously - no anyone actually believes that everyone is about to die. Show me the entire ship getting blown up, and then I'll be like 'ok, how are they going to get out of this one?'.
*Others:
"Fire everything you've got"... four photon torpedoes. :lol
'we'll come in behind them and they'll be a sitting duck' .... like they don't have aft shields?
So brief diversion from Picard, but I want to just mention The Shuttlepod Show youtube channel one more time with the dudes who played Trip and Reed. I've been watching a lot of it, interviews with each other, Brannon Braga, Armin Shimmerman, Rick Berman, Jeffrey Combs, etc. and I'm currently watching one with Walter Keonig.
It's actually really interesting. They get a lot of blunt talk about behind the scenes on Star Trek. You get more honesty out of this than I've seen much other places, and a lot of these people are just really interesting to listen to and come off as cool normal people.
Anyway, I strongly suggest it if you're a big Trek fan, even if you're not a huge Enterprise fan.
https://www.youtube.com/@ShuttlepodShow
I'm sure I'll be back kicking and screaming about Picard soon enough. :biggrin:
The scene between Beverly and Picard was so weak, in particular her dialogue. While it "makes sense", the fact that her reasoning is somehow valid is just hilarious. And Whorf.. the "I don't do that anymore" guy, who just murdered 5 people, one of which was completely unarmed. I expect the bad writing, I just am not sure how it passes any checks and feedback from the actors (who supposedly do readings first) and higher ups. It gives me the impression that if I were a fly on the wall in those meetings, I would hear a lot of "OK, good enough, lets move on to the next scene".
The scene between Beverly and Picard was so weak, in particular her dialogue. While it "makes sense", the fact that her reasoning is somehow valid is just hilarious. And Whorf.. the "I don't do that anymore" guy, who just murdered 5 people, one of which was completely unarmed. I expect the bad writing, I just am not sure how it passes any checks and feedback from the actors (who supposedly do readings first) and higher ups. It gives me the impression that if I were a fly on the wall in those meetings, I would hear a lot of "OK, good enough, lets move on to the next scene".
I read it as Worf playing the 'Good cop' role.
The scene between Beverly and Picard was so weak, in particular her dialogue. While it "makes sense", the fact that her reasoning is somehow valid is just hilarious. And Whorf.. the "I don't do that anymore" guy, who just murdered 5 people, one of which was completely unarmed. I expect the bad writing, I just am not sure how it passes any checks and feedback from the actors (who supposedly do readings first) and higher ups. It gives me the impression that if I were a fly on the wall in those meetings, I would hear a lot of "OK, good enough, lets move on to the next scene".
I read it as Worf playing the 'Good cop' role.
You might be giving the writers too much credit. Remember in the trailer where he said he's a pacifist now? Guess maybe he was joking and he's actually just a stone cold murderer at this point? Just feels too much L. Ron's thing where he kept saying choose life while murdering everyone.
I really liked episode 3. Best episode of Picard, and maybe the best episode of Trek since DS9. Some good character moments, exciting action and a couple of twists. I'm sure they'll screw it up next week though 😄
And we're back to disagreeing! YAY!
Though there were definitely elements I liked. Very few sadly, but we also seem to look for different things.
Not 100% sure how I feel about the villain twist. Won't discuss spoilers for now, but I feel like the idea itself was fine but executed in a pretty awful way, just super rushed and without much meaning. Also don't love how Picard and Riker just so quickly turned on each other, felt forced. Though the two of them (before that) on screen is great to see and it was cool seeing Bev be a doctor again. Even though everyone seemed so needlessly rude to her, but this is modern Trek is all about everyone being a dick to everyone.
The scene between Beverly and Picard was so weak, in particular her dialogue. While it "makes sense", the fact that her reasoning is somehow valid is just hilarious. And Whorf.. the "I don't do that anymore" guy, who just murdered 5 people, one of which was completely unarmed. I expect the bad writing, I just am not sure how it passes any checks and feedback from the actors (who supposedly do readings first) and higher ups. It gives me the impression that if I were a fly on the wall in those meetings, I would hear a lot of "OK, good enough, lets move on to the next scene".
I read it as Worf playing the 'Good cop' role.
You might be giving the writers too much credit. Remember in the trailer where he said he's a pacifist now? Guess maybe he was joking and he's actually just a stone cold murderer at this point? Just feels too much L. Ron's thing where he kept saying choose life while murdering everyone.
I really liked episode 3. Best episode of Picard, and maybe the best episode of Trek since DS9. Some good character moments, exciting action and a couple of twists. I'm sure they'll screw it up next week though 😄
And we're back to disagreeing! YAY!
Though there were definitely elements I liked. Very few sadly, but we also seem to look for different things.
Not 100% sure how I feel about the villain twist. Won't discuss spoilers for now, but I feel like the idea itself was fine but executed in a pretty awful way, just super rushed and without much meaning. Also don't love how Picard and Riker just so quickly turned on each other, felt forced. Though the two of them (before that) on screen is great to see and it was cool seeing Bev be a doctor again. Even though everyone seemed so needlessly rude to her, but this is modern Trek is all about everyone being a dick to everyone.
At least you got an answer to the question about Jack's accent!
Watched bits of some of the podcasts over the weekend. First and foremost, it's a trip to realize that Wesley Crusher is 50 years old now. As for his show, since it seems centered around the new ST episodes it's of little use to me. And from what I could tell it mostly just seems to be an infomercial for how great they are.
I did watch quite a bit of a different show where Wheaton was interviewed for an hour and a half and it was quite interesting. Dude sure doesn't like his folks much. That one wasn't actually a ST podcast, but has had a few different ST actors on it.
Lastly was Shuttle-pod. For one thing, if I met either of those guys on the street I wouldn't have any idea who they were, despite being quite familiar with Enterprise. My issue with their podcast was that neither of them ever struck me as particularly interested in ST to begin with. I might be wrong, but it just seems to me like they're using their resume to do a podcast. Nothing wrong with that, but it just seems odd. It'd be like Chakote and Harry Kim doing a show about VOY.
I do like the idea of ST actors interviewing other people from the show and generally talking shop, but so far none of the options are really working for me.
The one I [partly] watched from the ENT guys was with Quark. He had a somewhat interesting background [he got into acting to get laid], but I didn't get far enough in to actually cover any ST ground. Mostly they've just had minor guys from ENT, but it looks like Combs and Dorn have both done their show, so I'll certainly give them another shot.Watched bits of some of the podcasts over the weekend. First and foremost, it's a trip to realize that Wesley Crusher is 50 years old now. As for his show, since it seems centered around the new ST episodes it's of little use to me. And from what I could tell it mostly just seems to be an infomercial for how great they are.
I did watch quite a bit of a different show where Wheaton was interviewed for an hour and a half and it was quite interesting. Dude sure doesn't like his folks much. That one wasn't actually a ST podcast, but has had a few different ST actors on it.
Lastly was Shuttle-pod. For one thing, if I met either of those guys on the street I wouldn't have any idea who they were, despite being quite familiar with Enterprise. My issue with their podcast was that neither of them ever struck me as particularly interested in ST to begin with. I might be wrong, but it just seems to me like they're using their resume to do a podcast. Nothing wrong with that, but it just seems odd. It'd be like Chakote and Harry Kim doing a show about VOY.
I do like the idea of ST actors interviewing other people from the show and generally talking shop, but so far none of the options are really working for me.
You mean the official CBS one with Will Wheaton? Yea, that's just a big commercial for the show.
As for the Enterprise guys, you're right that they're likely cashing in on the ONE thing people might know them from to get this off the ground. Can't fault them for that, but they're actually pretty good at what they do. They're still working on getting the better guests but even the little ones they have had have been interesting to see what life is like for C list actors and how Star Trek was from a behind the scenes perspective with little room for sugar coating anything. It's not super ground breaking, but I've been enjoying the hell out of it.
And I think there actually was a very short lived Voyager podcast with Kim and maybe Paris?
I guess it’s more like the lower decks of podcasts. The dude who played Silik or even Chekov. Not huge names and definitely not going to be A listers but they were fascinating to listen to just about how careers like that work and so forth.
They did say they never really got to know Jolene very much at all, that she was incredibly private and not very open. They talk about Scott like he’s the greatest guy on earth but admitted they lost contact with him and are honestly probably not sure how to even reach him to be on the show.
I guess it’s more like the lower decks of podcasts. The dude who played Silik or even Chekov. Not huge names and definitely not going to be A listers but they were fascinating to listen to just about how careers like that work and so forth.
They did say they never really got to know Jolene very much at all, that she was incredibly private and not very open. They talk about Scott like he’s the greatest guy on earth but admitted they lost contact with him and are honestly probably not sure how to even reach him to be on the show.
I can believe that (well maybe second greatest behind Keanu obs..)
I'd assume there was a bit of that camaraderie going on with DS9, as well. If nothing else two of them got married, and I know Odo remained very close with several of them. With the later shows I could certainly see how it'd become a little too professional to actually enjoy. Not to mention some inherent tensions going on with VOY.I guess it’s more like the lower decks of podcasts. The dude who played Silik or even Chekov. Not huge names and definitely not going to be A listers but they were fascinating to listen to just about how careers like that work and so forth.
They did say they never really got to know Jolene very much at all, that she was incredibly private and not very open. They talk about Scott like he’s the greatest guy on earth but admitted they lost contact with him and are honestly probably not sure how to even reach him to be on the show.
I can believe that (well maybe second greatest behind Keanu obs..)
Turns out the cast and everyone else hated the finale as well, Scott included.
But yea, it was also interesting to learn that behind the scenes for most Trek was pretty business heavy, while TNG was the only one where people were often laughing and having fun and staying close friends.
I've heard Avery wasn't a lot of fun on set, not bad or anything, just keen to keep it professional. I'm sure I've heard Dorn say there was a difference between TNG and DS9 in terms of fun too.This doesn't surprise me. Avery Brooks strikes me as the sort that'd take things far too seriously. We've all heard the stories about how Patrick Stewart began by taking it all too seriously, but learned to lighten up when the rest of the cast took the piss out of him. Avery would probably die on that hill.
It wasn't much but I think this is the best Picard episode out of all the seasons so far. It's probably the first episode I didn't hate and for the most of it, it resembled the characters as I knew them. Still, plenty to disagree and not like but it wasn't offensive, imo.
Recently started DS9 from ep1... and woooo its definitely season 1 lol I know better to come.
Recently started DS9 from ep1... and woooo its definitely season 1 lol I know better to come.
Wasn’t as bad as I remembered when I rewatched, but definitely gets a lot better. That said one of my top 5 episodes is in season 1.
Recently started DS9 from ep1... and woooo its definitely season 1 lol I know better to come.
Wasn’t as bad as I remembered when I rewatched, but definitely gets a lot better. That said one of my top 5 episodes is in season 1.
Duet?
Poor Adami.
I meant what you said about not wanting to shit on it since other people like it. Or whatever it was you said lolPoor Adami.
Hey, I said I didn't hate. I'd call down right meh, which, again, is high praise for a Picard episode. There were some really good moments in here and some even better ideas that I just didn't were handled as well as they could've been. But I enjoyed it and didn't want to strangle a baby while watching it.
I meant what you said about not wanting to shit on it since other people like it. Or whatever it was you said lolPoor Adami.
Hey, I said I didn't hate. I'd call down right meh, which, again, is high praise for a Picard episode. There were some really good moments in here and some even better ideas that I just didn't were handled as well as they could've been. But I enjoyed it and didn't want to strangle a baby while watching it.
I wonder how he managed to get that captain's seat, considering he's mental state. :lolThis is exactly the first thought I had when he started blabbering about it. Which is why I thought his whole reasoning is just terrible writing.
I wonder how he managed to get that captain's seat, considering he's mental state. :lolThis is exactly the first thought I had when he started blabbering about it. Which is why I thought his whole reasoning is just terrible writing.
So, I took the plunge and watched the first four episodes of Season Three of Picard.
For background, I watched Season One, and I hated it. I skipped Season Two, I hated Season One so bad. I won't go into spoilers for Season Three, just in case folks here haven't seen it. All I WILL say, is that I like it better than Season One by a mile. That is likely due to...the familiar characters.
But in watching these four episodes over the weekend, I think I nailed down why I just really haven't enjoyed Trek shows since DS9 ended (and a bit of Voyager). Now, hear me out on this. What I am going to say is just my personal opinion, obviously, my take may be very different than yours, or what you watched Trek for back in the day. But it dawned on me that the major reason I haven't gotten into Trek series' is because of the de-emphasis of the utopian society. The warmth. The "we'll get there" attitude that was understatedly inserted into the original series, expertly weaved throughout TNG, and still permeated DS9 and the first couple seasons of Voyager that I watched.
It's really hard to put into words, but along with the cinematography being all dark and cold now, that hope for the future has gone dark as well. I felt Enterprise was very cold and bleak. (And kinda weird to see a ship that in some ways looked more advanced than the TNG 1701-D, given it came before it. LOL.) The feature films, starting with First Contact...same thing. And everything following.
IIRC, Roddenberry had passed before DS9, and obviously before Voyager. But his sense of a utopian future for humankind kept going for a bit. It really has, at least for me, gone missing. And that was really the underpinning of why Trek worked, at least for me. It may not be... "realistic" in the sense of what we understand to be "the real world" and how things likely would happen, but it didn't need to be. It was science fiction. The stuff now, it feels like there's an emphasis to make it feel like reality, and with that, came the darkness and cold. Less warmth. And for me, it really has impacted my enjoyment of Trek.
Just watching Picard Season Three, it really struck me that was missing (You'd figure I would have noticed by now). Anyway, the season so far is good. Not great, but good. I could live without the pointless swearing, and some of the forced jokes. But I definitely think the season is much, much better than season one so far.
The problem with Roddenberry's Trek (which is ToS though to TNG season 2) is the women were either fluff or terribly written.
So, I took the plunge and watched the first four episodes of Season Three of Picard.I certainly agree with your greater point. The ST universe has been increasingly darker to match the interests of the modern audience. Not to mention a certain amount of jingoism (much of it might as well just be 24 in space). I think the problem is that there needed to be a balance between Roddenberry's altruistic, albeit horny notions about our future, and the conflict the writers were so keen to introduce. You can compare TNG S1 and ENT S3 for the ends of the spectrum. TNG S1 was boring because the humans were boring. They were lifeless paragons trying to be wonderful in a cruel universe. When Roddenberry was forced out they started phasing in some conflict while still keeping the lofty ideals. This was when ST was at its finest. Eventually that stopped selling, and more modern writers wanted to focus on conflict above all else.
For background, I watched Season One, and I hated it. I skipped Season Two, I hated Season One so bad. I won't go into spoilers for Season Three, just in case folks here haven't seen it. All I WILL say, is that I like it better than Season One by a mile. That is likely due to...the familiar characters.
But in watching these four episodes over the weekend, I think I nailed down why I just really haven't enjoyed Trek shows since DS9 ended (and a bit of Voyager). Now, hear me out on this. What I am going to say is just my personal opinion, obviously, my take may be very different than yours, or what you watched Trek for back in the day. But it dawned on me that the major reason I haven't gotten into Trek series' is because of the de-emphasis of the utopian society. The warmth. The "we'll get there" attitude that was understatedly inserted into the original series, expertly weaved throughout TNG, and still permeated DS9 and the first couple seasons of Voyager that I watched.
It's really hard to put into words, but along with the cinematography being all dark and cold now, that hope for the future has gone dark as well. I felt Enterprise was very cold and bleak. (And kinda weird to see a ship that in some ways looked more advanced than the TNG 1701-D, given it came before it. LOL.) The feature films, starting with First Contact...same thing. And everything following.
IIRC, Roddenberry had passed before DS9, and obviously before Voyager. But his sense of a utopian future for humankind kept going for a bit. It really has, at least for me, gone missing. And that was really the underpinning of why Trek worked, at least for me. It may not be... "realistic" in the sense of what we understand to be "the real world" and how things likely would happen, but it didn't need to be. It was science fiction. The stuff now, it feels like there's an emphasis to make it feel like reality, and with that, came the darkness and cold. Less warmth. And for me, it really has impacted my enjoyment of Trek.
Just watching Picard Season Three, it really struck me that was missing (You'd figure I would have noticed by now). Anyway, the season so far is good. Not great, but good. I could live without the pointless swearing, and some of the forced jokes. But I definitely think the season is much, much better than season one so far.
TNG S1 was boring because the humans were boring. They were lifeless paragons trying to be wonderful in a cruel universe. When Roddenberry was forced out they started phasing in some conflict while still keeping the lofty ideals. This was when ST was at its finest. Eventually that stopped selling, and more modern writers wanted to focus on conflict above all else.
SNW is far from perfect, but it actually does keep most of the enlightenment and optimism from the original shows. It's the first thing they've done in a while where it seems like the Federation wouldn't be a bad place to live, rather than the most dystopian parts of modern America which seems to be the milieu of modern Trek.TNG S1 was boring because the humans were boring. They were lifeless paragons trying to be wonderful in a cruel universe. When Roddenberry was forced out they started phasing in some conflict while still keeping the lofty ideals. This was when ST was at its finest. Eventually that stopped selling, and more modern writers wanted to focus on conflict above all else.
Great way to put it, and glad you got my overall point. I saw the ads for SNW. Not sure I want to jump in. But yeah, the modernization of it all has taken away from ST's charm.
TNG S1 was boring because the humans were boring. They were lifeless paragons trying to be wonderful in a cruel universe. When Roddenberry was forced out they started phasing in some conflict while still keeping the lofty ideals. This was when ST was at its finest. Eventually that stopped selling, and more modern writers wanted to focus on conflict above all else.
Great way to put it, and glad you got my overall point. I saw the ads for SNW. Not sure I want to jump in. But yeah, the modernization of it all has taken away from ST's charm.
One of the reason the first two seasons of TNG are rough is because of the constant preaching of their Undeniable Moral Superiority which feels handed out with the uniform. Picard is pretty awful to begin with, more like a walking/talking rulebook with limited social skills, it also doesn't help those early episodes are so dry and generally lacking charm or humour, thankfully they mostly turned it around.The UMS is pure Roddenberry. "Mankind has evolved beyond all of you primitive sleazeballs." The guy was both a blessing and a curse. I'm grateful that he invented the thing, but he was a real menace. The writers needed conflict to actually write good stories, but it simply didn't exist in his world. Subsequently the first couple of seasons were mostly a power struggle with everybody losing. When they finally promoted Roddenberry out of the way they were able to write better stuff, which is how we wound up with Q Who and Best of Both Worlds. And Thankfully these guys were good enough to combine the two worlds;. Roddenberry's UMS and interesting, conflict driven stories. This carried right on over to DS9 and VOY, where the human crew were always morally superior, but far, far less interesting than the aliens who represented actual humanity.
But the reason I love DS9 the most is that it's was willing to use shades of grey in its storytelling.
The condition you are describing is definitely the biggest downfall of Picard for me, Samsara.
I finally watched Picard episode 4. It wasn't horrible. Some cool ideas, and some not so cool. Some of the execution was actually pretty good, but as usual a lot of it was kinda clunky.
After watching the TOS episode "Mirror, Mirror" a dozen or more times over the years, someone pointed out something I'd never noticed before.
(https://imgur.com/dqltVtl.jpg)
In the mirror universe, Spock and Kirk each have a personal bodyguard. Spock's is the Vulcan, obviously, and he's watching Kirk. Kirk's bodyguard is watching Spock. I never noticed that before.
Also, "mirror Kirk" in the brig of the prime Enterprise is yelling a bunch of stuff, including "Where's my personal guard?"
This isn't the best Trek ever by any stretch, but still a huge improvement over the previous 2 seasons. I was thinking that, so far this feels like a TNG movie told over 10 episodes. It's not hard to see that, with some changes, this story could have worked as the Fifth TNG movie.
Not the best Trek, but the last 3 episode run has been the best Trek has been since DS9 without a doubt - of course it'll probably undo all it's good work from now ;D
Not the best Trek, but the last 3 episode run has been the best Trek has been since DS9 without a doubt - of course it'll probably undo all it's good work from now ;D
Oh son, no. There have been good and even some great moments, but even this season of Picard is not great, thus far. As a whole. A great Ro arc doesn't make up for how bad so much else is.
Strange New Worlds is better than this for sure, as was the majority of Enterprise.
This is okay sci-fi with great moments, but it's hardly even Trek.
Yes, the song is not great. The show wasn't bad, if boring. And sometimes bad.
But again, you and I define Trek differently. If you like the dark, gritty, mysteries on top of mysteries, everyone is angry and evil, then this is the stuff for you.
And DS9 wasn't like this. They just ventured into it on occasion, which is why it worked. It was a balancing act. AND DS9 was very well written (mostly). Modern Trek doesn't have the optimism, hope, inspiration to balance out the dark stuff and the writing is (mostly) just quite bad.
And again, BSG was very well written.
And again, BSG was very well written.
For the first two seasons + the New Caprica arc.
Though I felt similar about Attack of the Clones when I first saw that heaping pile of trash.
Strange New Worlds is better than this for sure, as was the majority of Enterprise.I mean, if you say so. But I don't care about either of those shows, as they are basically prequels that were both unnecessary.
Strange New Worlds is better than this for sure, as was the majority of Enterprise.I mean, if you say so. But I don't care about either of those shows, as they are basically prequels that were both unnecessary.
I hope the next Trek show is set after Picard in the timeline, so we can have stories about what happens NEXT.
I can’t believe SNW and Enterprise were both mentioned in the same sentence. Enterprise isn’t fit to lick SNW’s boots.
I can’t believe SNW and Enterprise were both mentioned in the same sentence. Enterprise isn’t fit to lick SNW’s boots.
Enterprise had the better Doctor, but that's about it.
The stories in much of Enterprise may be boring and quite bland, but they make sense.
The stories in much of Enterprise may be boring and quite bland, but they make sense.
That's because most of the them were rehashes or slight variations on themes we'd seen before. Enterprise is a example of a show just phoning it in, characters barely had any personally and the plots are as generic as they come. When they found out the theme song was generally hated - their solution, speed it up slightly.... :facepalm:.
The stories in much of Enterprise may be boring and quite bland, but they make sense.
That's because most of the them were rehashes or slight variations on themes we'd seen before. Enterprise is a example of a show just phoning it in, characters barely had any personally and the plots are as generic as they come. When they found out the theme song was generally hated - their solution, speed it up slightly.... :facepalm:.
Don't fully agree, and I'm done ripping on the song. But if given the choice between buttered noodles, and undercooked noodles with gravy, sprinkles, coconut shavings, and broken glass, I'm going with buttered noodles. Even though buttered noodles are not at all original, boring, phoned in etc.
Amanda Plummer deserves a Razzie for her ridiculous first-year-of-drama-club overacting.
Episode 6 was good, probably a little weaker than the last few, but still enjoyable. A lot to unpack though, but no spoilers till more have watched it.
Prediction : Adami will have a fuckton of issues with this episode and get full mouth of shards of glass!
Focus on this fact and you’ll have a lot more fun.
It’s obscene how much better this is than Nemesis. If this is to be the TNG crew’s final stand, I’m just so happy that they gave them something that is downright Shakespeare compared to that rancid turd.
Amanda Plummer deserves a Razzie for her ridiculous first-year-of-drama-club overacting.
Any moment now I expect Michael Jeter to enter the scene in full drag and carrying balloons.
https://youtu.be/rmfGLfWqlzA
I think there are call backs because it's been 30 year (20 for the movies, I'd guess) so many new fans don't know the characters plus they haven't been together in 20 + years. Vets like you don't like the call backs because you are versed in the Trek world.
I think there are call backs because it's been 30 year (20 for the movies, I'd guess) so many new fans don't know the characters plus they haven't been together in 20 + years. Vets like you don't like the call backs because you are versed in the Trek world.
Can't say I agree. They didn't show the Defiant, Voyager, Bounty, Kirk, a Tribble, Moriarty, a crow etc for fans who aren't familiar with it. Or else they'd just be confused and tune out. They did it for people who already know all of those things so that those people can be like "HEY I REMEMBER THAT! I LIKE THAT THING!" and that's kind of it. It's cheap, it's a little insulting, and sadly, it REALLY works well. This will probably be the highest rated episode thus far simply because of how much nostalgia was in it.
And I'm not annoyed because I'm already familiar with those things. I'm annoyed by the WAY it's being done and the purpose it seems to serve. If they want to use nostalgia as a clever way to better tell a good story or inform character, awesome! Having Hugh was a (surprisingly) good example of using nostalgia to further the story. Sadly it wasn't a good story, but he was used well for the most part. But this was just pointing at things and say "member that?" I just can't get behind that kind of lazy use of call backs.
Edit: Anyway, I feel like I'm in the minority on this if not alone, so I'll stop harping on it.
I get that nostalgia sells and it's apparently what most people want, but if you're going to do nostalgia, you have to put in effort.Honestly, that's the best way to work in the kinds of nostalgia they were using. Makes sense that it would be in a museum. Makes sense you would see a lot of that kind of thing in that kind of museum. Makes a lot more sense than somehow incorporating the Defiant into the storyline, or whatever.
They literally went to a nostalgia museum.
Guess we're just on two different pages with that.*hugs*
#brohug
I get that nostalgia sells and it's apparently what most people want, but if you're going to do nostalgia, you have to put in effort.Honestly, that's the best way to work in the kinds of nostalgia they were using. Makes sense that it would be in a museum. Makes sense you would see a lot of that kind of thing in that kind of museum. Makes a lot more sense than somehow incorporating the Defiant into the storyline, or whatever.
They literally went to a nostalgia museum.
I would be pissed if they WEREN'T incorporating at least some nostalgia. Nostalgia is why there's a show. Seasons 1 & 2 had very little, and they sucked out loud. The two aren't necessarily related, but they aren't necessarily NOT related, either.
1. Season 3
2. Season 4
3. Season 5
4. Season 6
5. Season 2
6. Season 7
7. Season 1
Season 3 was TNG at it's height IMO. From there it was a slow decline, but the next 3 seasons were still excellent to good. Seasons 2, 7 and 1 are much lower in quality, although each of them have some standout episodes.
some ugly lady that smokes that is a changeling?
She was in 9 episodes on TNG, culminating in S7 and Preemptive Strike. I don't remember the episode in tremendous detail, but she essentially defected from Starfleet to re-join the Maquis.
I remember watching TNG during its original broadcast, and the episode with Deanna and Beverly working out together. Even as I was admittedly enjoying what was on screen, I was simultaneously embarrassed that they were actually doing it. TNG was finally starting to gain some traction and be taken seriously as a show, and now we have this. Great job keeping things 100% on the level, guys. And I'm not sure what was worse: that they thought it was a good idea to do this to appeal to the incels, or that maybe they were right.
I don't recognize the shot of the Trill babes making out. DS9? I've only been through that series once.
As long as ya dunnit liyte that dahm cahndle!
I don't recognize the shot of the Trill babes making out. DS9? I've only been through that series once.
I’m sure everyone will be shocked, but I thought the episode was pretty meh.I...agree with all of this.
Nothing awful about it. And I really loved the stuff between Brent and Levar. But the rest was just generic and boring.
Whatever’s backstory is cliche and uninteresting. Thus making the overall plot uncompelling to me. And while I really am digging the actor who plays Jack, I am completely over his character. He’s nothing but a living mystery box. Just mystery after mystery and not much else to go on.
Shrug.
Oh. I was initially really enjoying that surprising cameo (kudos to keeping both of them thus far under wraps) until it became pointless. Hope it comes back around in a more meaningful. The Ro cameo was great. This was just meaningless unfortunately. Hope whatever other cameos they have kept secret have more emotional weight. .
Yeah bit of a dud that one. Stalled the plot to throw in a pointless cameo (that nobody wanted) and they gave a terrible performance too If you are doing Changelings maybe include cameos from the show that heavily featured Changelings.....
Yeah bit of a dud that one. Stalled the plot to throw in a pointless cameo (that nobody wanted) and they gave a terrible performance too If you are doing Changelings maybe include cameos from the show that heavily featured Changelings.....
I get it though. 7 would go to people she trusts most and he's on that list. She's not going to find Bashir or anything, they don't know each other.
But it was pointless. I was happy to see it (I liked voyager a lot more than you) until it was revealed that it meant nothing.
Huh? You lost me there.
Huh? You lost me there.
I meant they could have used Worf instead of 7 as the person who reaches out to a former crew member, then you could have a DS9 cameo, someone whose encountered the Changelings. Maybe no one from that cast is available though. And yes as you've said that would have given Worf something to do.
Yeah bit of a dud that one. Stalled the plot to throw in a pointless cameo (that nobody wanted) and they gave a terrible performance too If you are doing Changelings maybe include cameos from the show that heavily featured Changelings.....
Yeah bit of a dud that one. Stalled the plot to throw in a pointless cameo (that nobody wanted) and they gave a terrible performance too If you are doing Changelings maybe include cameos from the show that heavily featured Changelings.....
Huh? I wouldn't say Tim Russ gave a bad performance at all. He was spot on as Tuvok, and he was just as I remembered him from VOY.
Also, am I remembering wrong, or were Picard and Beverly ready to just straight up execute Vadik? Insanely not only out of character from who they were on TNG but who they are on the damn show thus far.
I really enjoyed the last. If they are going to do this nostalgia trip this season I'm going to be really disappointed if we don't get someone from DS9 other than a small photo of Odo.
I really enjoyed the last. If they are going to do this nostalgia trip this season I'm going to be really disappointed if we don't get someone from DS9 other than a small photo of Odo.
A Kira or Quark cameo wouldn't surprise me. But I'm still hoping for god Sisko to save the day and beat back the dominion a second time.
Also, this is supposed to just be a small(ish) rebel group of changelings right? Can't we have some good changelings show up to help? That would be a cool twist.
What’s everyone thinking, Jack is likely part changeling? Too obvious?
Did you guys hear about this? To me, it sounds about as much fun as having my arse filled with potato salad by a high pressure hose. :azn:
https://trekmovie.com/2023/03/30/breaking-star-trek-starfleet-academy-series-officially-annnounced/
(https://trekmovie.com/2023/03/30/breaking-star-trek-starfleet-academy-series-officially-annnounced/)
I dunno about you guys, but I am absolutely pumped to see a crew of very diverse cadets have to work together to uncovery the deeply entrenched conspiracy and escape the ruthless fist of theYou might be right, but it won't be a crew of diverse cadets. It'll be 12 gung-ho, hyper-nationalistic members of Red Squad.Terran EmpireFederation.
"Kurtzman will be co-showrunner alongside Noga Landau (creator of CW’s Nancy Drew and writer on Syfy’s The Magicians)."
I tried The Magicians a few years ago, it didn't hold my interest beyond a few episodes though.
Can we get Ira Steven Behr back on Star Trek.
I dunno about you guys, but I am absolutely pumped to see a crew of very diverse cadets have to work together to uncovery the deeply entrenched conspiracy and escape the ruthless fist of theYou might be right, but it won't be a crew of diverse cadets. It'll be 12 gung-ho, hyper-nationalistic members of Red Squad.Terran EmpireFederation.
Fair enough. I just know that Red Squad will be a huge part of it. I'm thinking they're the only reason to do the Academy show in the first place. Probably the Sec 31 recruiter factors into it, as well, so we can spin off to an official 24 set in the new Star Trek universe.I dunno about you guys, but I am absolutely pumped to see a crew of very diverse cadets have to work together to uncovery the deeply entrenched conspiracy and escape the ruthless fist of theYou might be right, but it won't be a crew of diverse cadets. It'll be 12 gung-ho, hyper-nationalistic members of Red Squad.Terran EmpireFederation.
From the people that made Stacey Abrams president of earth? Nah. It'll be a bunch of cadets from UCLA. I can see a bunch of hyper-nationalist Red Squad dudes being antagonists.
I would much rather see a show about Captain Shaw and his crew. Star Trek: Titan.
I would much rather see a show about Captain Shaw and his crew. Star Trek: Titan.
I would much rather see a show about Captain Shaw and his crew. Star Trek: Titan.
Good episode, but I'm really tired of the fact that, in this season that is supposed to be a celebration of TNG, the main character is Jack.
Fuck that guy already.
Good episode, but I'm really tired of the fact that, in this season that is supposed to be a celebration of TNG, the main character is Jack.
Fuck that guy already.
Good episode, but I'm really tired of the fact that, in this season that is supposed to be a celebration of TNG, the main character is Jack.
Fuck that guy already.
Would you rather it was his (half) brother instead !
Good episode, but I'm really tired of the fact that, in this season that is supposed to be a celebration of TNG, the main character is Jack.
Fuck that guy already.
Not gonna comment on today's episode yet.
But...
FUCKIN' SOLIDS.
:rollin
Not gonna comment on today's episode yet.
But...
FUCKIN' SOLIDS.
:rollin
I am very not into using that language in Star Trek and even I chuckled at that line.
BUT WHAT IS BEHIND THE RED DOOR?!??!?!?!
NNNOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
BUT WHAT IS BEHIND THE RED DOOR?!??!?!?!
Neelix.
BUT WHAT IS BEHIND THE RED DOOR?!??!?!?!
Neelix.
BUT WHAT IS BEHIND THE RED DOOR?!??!?!?!
Neelix.
HAH!
I'll make a bet it's something dumb like the Pah-wraiths.
I can't imagine they'll make it something original, not when they can link it to some member berry from Star Trek past.
Yeah, F-bombs rarely work for me because they're usually just sprinkled into the dialogue to make it edgy or something, but her delivery was perfect. And I hated her character pretty much the entire time she was on screen (and most of the time she wasn't).
Yeah, F-bombs rarely work for me because they're usually just sprinkled into the dialogue to make it edgy or something, but her delivery was perfect. And I hated her character pretty much the entire time she was on screen (and most of the time she wasn't).
I almost never think this, myself. Depends what your personal attitude to swearing is, possibly.
To quote comedian Frankie Boyle: "In Scotland, the word "fucking" is just a warning that a noun is on it's way"
BUT WHAT IS BEHIND THE RED DOOR?!??!?!?!
Neelix.
HAH!
I'll make a bet it's something dumb like the Pah-wraiths.
I can't imagine they'll make it something original, not when they can link it to some member berry from Star Trek past.
Right. Why would changelings curse in Terran?
BUT WHAT IS BEHIND THE RED DOOR?!??!?!?!
Neelix.
HAH!
I'll make a bet it's something dumb like the Pah-wraiths.
I can't imagine they'll make it something original, not when they can link it to some member berry from Star Trek past.
BUT WHAT IS BEHIND THE RED DOOR?!??!?!?!
Neelix.
HAH!
I'll make a bet it's something dumb like the Pah-wraiths.
I can't imagine they'll make it something original, not when they can link it to some member berry from Star Trek past.
This isn't far-fetched at all. Given the connection with changelings, I was wondering if it would be the Pah-wraiths...or...perhaps a doorway to the Prophets and the return of Sisko?
Who knows. Enjoying Season 3, but I still can't help but feel like Deep Space Nine got the shaft. Which sucks. :lol
I haven't heard anything about a voyager revival.
Although, if you keep pressing the matter, they might throw you a bone and do a 10 episode Neelix spin off which will be even darker and grittier than Picard.
Although, if you keep pressing the matter, they might throw you a bone and do a 10 episode Neelix spin off which will be even darker and grittier than Picard.
Everyones least favorite jealous sexual predator Neelix is back in more grooming storylines! Lock up your Ocampa's.
Although, if you keep pressing the matter, they might throw you a bone and do a 10 episode Neelix spin off which will be even darker and grittier than Picard.
Everyones least favorite jealous sexual predator Neelix is back in more grooming storylines! Lock up your Ocampa's.
Hey, if falling in love with and grooming a two year old is wrong, I don't wanna be right.
What was behind the door? Well it was already predicted by someone else in this thread and it was soooooo dumb.
What was behind the door? Well it was already predicted by someone else in this thread and it was soooooo dumb.
Please don't tell me it was Neelix!
I'm actually curious just how much nostalgia they're going to cram into the last episode.I'm not sure how much is left.
What was behind the door? Well it was already predicted by someone else in this thread and it was soooooo dumb.
Please don't tell me it was Neelix!
Better. It was Tuvix!
I’ve been surprised by the lack of Wesley. Or did he die and I forgot?
OK, so I just watched the most recent episode.
Adami….my dear friend… you are literally among my top 3 favorite people here, and I honestly feel a measure of brotherly love for you.
…but… you’re wrong and I’m going to tell you why. :lol :lol
The reason why the heavy nostalgia works right now, on this show, right now can be summed up in one word. NEMESIS.
The way you felt about the first two seasons of Picard is exactly the way I felt about Nemesis. It is the only Star Trek that ever actively pissed me off with how terrible it was. And the fact that it was the TNG crew’s last hurrah made it all the more insulting. Even as I think about it now, it irritates me. It would be like if Metallica had retired right after releasing St. Anger and Lulu back to back. That’s how bad Nemesis was. The TNG crew deserved better, and they knew it. Even as they were trying to promote Nemesis there was an air of disappointment. They knew they had all been robbed of a decent send off, and they shared their fan’s disappointment.
But now, TNG finally has a halfway decent “victory lap”. We NEEDED this. Heck, THEY NEEDED THIS. This is to TNG what The Undiscovered Country was to the OG crew. Ya, it’s not Wrath of Khan, but it was a way to get the stink of FF out of everyone’s mouth.
But ya, it was pretty nostalgia heavy. I’ll give you that. I just hope you rethink it from that perspective and warm up to it a bit more.
Nothing but bromance for ya…
Im shocked the same people writing those came up with a plot involving the borg hiring the changelings to input secret Picard DNA into transporters to take over everyone under 25 (and clearly a lot older than that) after the Starfleet (for some reason) decided it was a brilliant idea to create a star ship hive mind.
Seeing the crew back on the Enterprise D felt great, I just wish everything leading up to that was better.
Since we are now talking spoilers, I was initially disappointed that the Borg were behind all this. But they were the greatest enemy of the TNG era, so it's fitting that the TNG crew fights against them in their final victory lap. And hopefully, this means that everything that happened to the Borg in Picard season 2 is now retconned! The Borg queen is also played by Alice Krige once again! She is the Borg queen from First Contact.
And while the Borg scheme to assimilate the younger generation using transporters is pretty dumb imo, I did like the retcon that explained the irumodic syndrome, and linked it to Picard's post-assimilation Borg powers from First Contact.
I loved the return of Enterprise D, as everyone else also did. It's great that they build the bridge set again from scratch, and I hope that there are more Enterprise D sets not yet revealed. I'd love to see Ten Forward again!
This season is not perfect, but it is a fitting full circle to the TNG crew. I think this really could have worked as the fifth TNG movie, and I would have gone to see this in a theater. Let's hope the final episode delivers!
I never thought it was the Pah-Wraiths because there has been no connection to DS9 (Changelings aside) during the first 8 episodes. The Borg were really the only villains of note in TNG and their episodes were fan favourites, as well as First Contact be far and away the best TNG film.
I never thought it was the Pah-Wraiths because there has been no connection to DS9 (Changelings aside) during the first 8 episodes. The Borg were really the only villains of note in TNG and their episodes were fan favourites, as well as First Contact be far and away the best TNG film.
I agree this is probably how the writers thought, and that's why I think it's largely fan-fiction. Satisfying or not. Because they weren't interesting in trying to tell a good story. They were interesting in reminding fans about what they liked about the show. And that's cool, I just wish they ALSO wrote a good story.
I never thought it was the Pah-Wraiths because there has been no connection to DS9 (Changelings aside) during the first 8 episodes. The Borg were really the only villains of note in TNG and their episodes were fan favourites, as well as First Contact be far and away the best TNG film.
I agree this is probably how the writers thought, and that's why I think it's largely fan-fiction. Satisfying or not. Because they weren't interesting in trying to tell a good story. They were interesting in reminding fans about what they liked about the show. And that's cool, I just wish they ALSO wrote a good story.
Compared to Season 2 this is a good story!
I read somewhere it was Patrick Stewart who didn't want the original crew in 'Picard', which is weird and a massive shame - I know you aren't the biggest fan but even you'll admit this season is a massive upgrade on what went before.
And that's what I care about because the rest is all so crazy stupid and ultimately won't matter because you know we'll win anyway.Yeah, but imagine if they want to be "original" and modern and edgy and decide to surprise us by killing off one or some of the main characters. That's totally something I can see them thinking it's a cool idea.
And that's what I care about because the rest is all so crazy stupid and ultimately won't matter because you know we'll win anyway.Yeah, but imagine if they want to be "original" and modern and edgy and decide to surprise us by killing off one or some of the main characters. That's totally something I can see them thinking it's a cool idea.
When the Borg attacked in TNG and the Federation and basically all known humanoid life was in danger, it was a serious threat and scary as hell.
When the Founders attacked in DS9 and the Federation and basically all known humanoid life was in danger, it too was a serious threat and scary as hell.
I can see them including a main cast death or two, but I have the feeling that Shaw was the sacrificial lamb. The rest will survive. Maybe Jack will die or become something else, kinda like Wesley did. That's so lame and predictable that they'll probably do something like that.
For all of this season's flaws, the biggest for me is killing off Shaw. Terrible move.
That would be even worse.For all of this season's flaws, the biggest for me is killing off Shaw. Terrible move.
It's possible he survived? I mean it's Star Trek so there are numerous ways he could be brought back to life if they wanted too.
Killing Picard or Data would be meaningless given Picard's died once this show and Data has already died twice.
I do believe that Frakes and Spiner have said that none of them will die. But who knows?
Sad that "what twist will they make" is one of the only things there is to talk about with this show.
Hey now! Only my mother gets to call me a miserable gatekeeping cunt!
Aside from watching a few scenes on YT, I skipped over S2 and don't miss it. You guys make it sound like S3 is worth watching. Perhaps I'll DL it and give it a shot. It honestly sounds just as stupid as the first season, but with enough nostalgia to keep it at least amusing.
https://youtu.be/JW_P3SRrExwSo we're back to TNG era Klingons now? Sure. Why not.
Strange New Worlds Season 2 trailer!
I've been giving SNW a rewatch (very slowly), and I really like the idea, and most of the cast, but I'm just not crazy about the execution. They get just enough right to make it feel kinda-sorta like Star Trek, but they also do some silly things which kind of offsets. I'm glad they're doing it, and for the most part I dig it, but it's far from perfect. Frankly, instead of killing the blind guy they could have killed the security chick and solved a whole boatload of problems.
Did not realize they were doing post credits. Will stick around for it.I didn't either. I saw it almost by accident because I just left the show running while I got up and was moving around, so I had to go back and rewind a little to catch the whole thing.
Aside from watching a few scenes on YT, I skipped over S2 and don't miss it. You guys make it sound like S3 is worth watching. Perhaps I'll DL it and give it a shot. It honestly sounds just as stupid as the first season, but with enough nostalgia to keep it at least amusing.
I've been giving SNW a rewatch (very slowly), and I really like the idea, and most of the cast, but I'm just not crazy about the execution. They get just enough right to make it feel kinda-sorta like Star Trek, but they also do some silly things which kind of offsets. I'm glad they're doing it, and for the most part I dig it, but it's far from perfect. Frankly, instead of killing the blind guy they could have killed the security chick and solved a whole boatload of problems.
Based on what little I've seen on YT, the production is my biggest issue. I can't see anything because it's all so dark. Maybe it's just the clips I've seen, but it seems like no matter where they are there aren't any lights on.Aside from watching a few scenes on YT, I skipped over S2 and don't miss it. You guys make it sound like S3 is worth watching. Perhaps I'll DL it and give it a shot. It honestly sounds just as stupid as the first season, but with enough nostalgia to keep it at least amusing.
I've been giving SNW a rewatch (very slowly), and I really like the idea, and most of the cast, but I'm just not crazy about the execution. They get just enough right to make it feel kinda-sorta like Star Trek, but they also do some silly things which kind of offsets. I'm glad they're doing it, and for the most part I dig it, but it's far from perfect. Frankly, instead of killing the blind guy they could have killed the security chick and solved a whole boatload of problems.
Biggest problem I have with it is the amount of ret-conning, and shoe-horning in stupid romances so they can relate to 21st century audiences. But the production values are probably the best of any Trek show yet and the actors are mostly very good.
Based on what little I've seen on YT, the production is my biggest issue. I can't see anything because it's all so dark. Maybe it's just the clips I've seen, but it seems like no matter where they are there aren't any lights on.Aside from watching a few scenes on YT, I skipped over S2 and don't miss it. You guys make it sound like S3 is worth watching. Perhaps I'll DL it and give it a shot. It honestly sounds just as stupid as the first season, but with enough nostalgia to keep it at least amusing.
I've been giving SNW a rewatch (very slowly), and I really like the idea, and most of the cast, but I'm just not crazy about the execution. They get just enough right to make it feel kinda-sorta like Star Trek, but they also do some silly things which kind of offsets. I'm glad they're doing it, and for the most part I dig it, but it's far from perfect. Frankly, instead of killing the blind guy they could have killed the security chick and solved a whole boatload of problems.
Biggest problem I have with it is the amount of ret-conning, and shoe-horning in stupid romances so they can relate to 21st century audiences. But the production values are probably the best of any Trek show yet and the actors are mostly very good.
Watched the Picard finale this morning.
...
Definitely a better wrap-up for the crew than fucking Nemesis.
https://youtu.be/JW_P3SRrExw
Strange New Worlds Season 2 trailer!
Guinan was not needed. Just the original seven. I kept it together but the poor wife was pretty emotional :D.
Oh yeah, the D versus the Borg cube was pretty silly, but Beverly totally rocking the weapons console was pretty cool. Then they all just looked at her and she said Hey a lot's happened in the last 20 years and it was kinda badass.
I think if someone were to edit together all of the scenes of the crew getting back together and hanging out, you know....the only parts people seem to be talking about positively, you'd have a good 45 minute special reunion show.
For a moment I was thinking I want to see Captain 7's adventures. Until I saw who the Number One is.
For a moment I was thinking I want to see Captain 7's adventures. Until I saw who the Number One is.
Jack is "special counselor to the captain" or some shit. Basically 7 wants to keep an eye on him. Wasn't the first officer one of Geordi's daughters? I didn't really have a problem with her.
So that scene is setting up another spinoff series? Is that just a rumor, or confirmed?Nothing is official yet. But just this morning, I saw an interview with Sir Patrick in Variety where he indicated that if such a show was to go forward, he would be willing to make the occasional guest appearance.
Ok
Love the idea of a Captain Seven show, but I don't enjoy Raffi or Jack. I thought the struggling addict Raffi in S1 was a fresh take on a Starfleet officer but I've since fallen in with the majority - she's a yawnfest. And Jack doesn't click for me. I was really hoping they'd bring back Shaw somehow and it'd be Shaw and Seven. They were fantastic together.
Watched the Picard finale this morning. For everyone who has been disappointed in the season, I'm not sure this will alleviate any of your specific concerns. Some really cool visuals, and some really big bullshit to go along with it.
It definitely was not the season that I would have written for this show, but I was more or less satisfied with what I got. Definitely a better wrap-up for the crew than fucking Nemesis.
Just an FYI: there is a post-credits scene that I am reasonably sure that Adami will hate lol
The worst thing about the season is the term 'member berries'. I'm guessing some snarky Youtuber dug it up in their review, now it's the go to term when criticising the show - I've seen it so many places it's ironically like the these people have been assimilated in the the Borg collective/hivemind and all spout out the same lines.
The worst thing about the season is the term 'member berries'. I'm guessing some snarky Youtuber dug it up in their review, now it's the go to term when criticising the show - I've seen it so many places it's ironically like the these people have been assimilated in the the Borg collective/hivemind and all spout out the same lines.
I stand by my use of the term member berries. Especially in this context when I specifically used it. A good amount of things at that time seemed to be presented so the audience would remember them and served no other purpose.
Remember Kirk? Remember tribbles? Remember Moriarty? Remember Star Trek IV? Remember the Defiant? Remember the OG Enterprise? Etc. Cut all of that out and it makes 0 impact on anything that happened.
Not every minute of every episode of every season of ever tv show has to have an “impact” to the plot line. “Fucking solids” didn’t have an impact, but everyone seemed to enjoy that.
The worst thing about the season is the term 'member berries'. I'm guessing some snarky Youtuber dug it up in their review, now it's the go to term when criticising the show - I've seen it so many places it's ironically like the these people have been assimilated in the the Borg collective/hivemind and all spout out the same lines.
I stand by my use of the term member berries. Especially in this context when I specifically used it. A good amount of things at that time seemed to be presented so the audience would remember them and served no other purpose.
Remember Kirk? Remember tribbles? Remember Moriarty? Remember Star Trek IV? Remember the Defiant? Remember the OG Enterprise? Etc. Cut all of that out and it makes 0 impact on anything that happened.
Completely honest, I hadn't seen you use it (if it felt like an attack on you, it wasn't - or well it kind off is in an unintended way ;D) I've only really been looking at reviews since the whole thing ended. Just curious, did you use it organically, or did you pick it from someone else? I'll be honest I've never heard of it before (appariently it comes from an 8 year old episode of Southpark, or something). As a huge Doctor Who fan I'd have thought I'd seen it before, as Doctor Who is always choc full of 'Member Berries'.
No worries. Yes, I got it from South Park as well. I believe they may have coined it or at least popularized it. I'm using it the way the word was meant to use in the episode, which was about Star Wars, oddly enough, and it was living berries just saying "member" this or that? So that's how I see it. Member berries can be fine if used well within a cool context. But just telling us stuff to remember, especially when it's in the middle of a completely non-engaging and poorly written story, stands out as cheap and annoying to me, and hopefully not many other people.
Yea, I've written enough about my issues with it. I still enjoyed it a lot more than any other Picard season and most of Discovery. I think I've been pretty fair but I don't want to go on any tirades or anything. So I'll leave it for now. I don't have any new thoughts at the moment.I don't think you've been unfair in the slightest.
For the ending poker game, they filmed for 45 minutes and let the actors completely flow and ad lib. That's awesome.
Yea, I've written enough about my issues with it. I still enjoyed it a lot more than any other Picard season and most of Discovery. I think I've been pretty fair but I don't want to go on any tirades or anything. So I'll leave it for now. I don't have any new thoughts at the moment.I don't think you've been unfair in the slightest.
For the ending poker game, they filmed for 45 minutes and let the actors completely flow and ad lib. That's awesome.
Amazing. And what a fitting end with Picard finally joining them. Just perfect.
I figured that @hefs comment was the case. And Picard did join them at the end of All Good Things. "I should have done this long ago" ... "You were always welcome".
Yea, I've written enough about my issues with it. I still enjoyed it a lot more than any other Picard season and most of Discovery. I think I've been pretty fair but I don't want to go on any tirades or anything. So I'll leave it for now. I don't have any new thoughts at the moment.
Random thought.....Jack was more Kirk than Picard, David was more Picard than Kirk.
That..........is actually a pretty interesting observation. Jack was very Kirk like and probably would have been a better Kirk than whoever is playing him on SNW.
I watched 'The Motion Picture' last night for the first time in many, many years (decades) - I was genuinely shocked to hear the TNG theme tune over the closing credits, I didn't realise that wasn't original for TNG.
That..........is actually a pretty interesting observation. Jack was very Kirk like and probably would have been a better Kirk than whoever is playing him on SNW.
Yeah. I'd actually forgotten Kirk was in SNW till the trailer for Season 2.
I watched 'The Motion Picture' last night for the first time in many, many years (decades) - I was genuinely shocked to hear the TNG theme tune over the closing credits, I didn't realise that wasn't original for TNG.
And sure enough, Frakes was on the most recent Shuttlepod Show. Oddly, I didn't find it as interesting as some of the other, second tier guys, you get more of the business side of things with them, but Riker's a pretty funny guy.As for the Enterprise guys, you're right that they're likely cashing in on the ONE thing people might know them from to get this off the ground. Can't fault them for that, but they're actually pretty good at what they do. They're still working on getting the better guests but even the little ones they have had have been interesting to see what life is like for C list actors and how Star Trek was from a behind the scenes perspective with little room for sugar coating anything. It's not super ground breaking, but I've been enjoying the hell out of it.The one I [partly] watched from the ENT guys was with Quark. He had a somewhat interesting background [he got into acting to get laid], but I didn't get far enough in to actually cover any ST ground. Mostly they've just had minor guys from ENT, but it looks like Combs and Dorn have both done their show, so I'll certainly give them another shot.
And I think there actually was a very short lived Voyager podcast with Kim and maybe Paris?
I think the problem is that the more interesting you could be, either as a host or a guest, the busier you probably are. You're not going to see Picard and Seven hosting their own podcast, awesome though it might be. Similarly they're not going to spend two hours on a Saturday hanging out talking shop with Trip and Malcolm. Two notable names that haven't been on their show are Archer and T'pol. One is probably pretty busy actually acting, and the other is so fucking rich she probably never leaves her own private island. I think that kind of sums up the dilemma.
And to that end, I give props to Frakes. He is busy. He was successful. He's likely got mad money. He still finds time to so these sorts of shows.
And sure enough, Frakes was on the most recent Shuttlepod Show. Oddly, I didn't find it as interesting as some of the other, second tier guys, you get more of the business side of things with them, but Riker's a pretty funny guy.As for the Enterprise guys, you're right that they're likely cashing in on the ONE thing people might know them from to get this off the ground. Can't fault them for that, but they're actually pretty good at what they do. They're still working on getting the better guests but even the little ones they have had have been interesting to see what life is like for C list actors and how Star Trek was from a behind the scenes perspective with little room for sugar coating anything. It's not super ground breaking, but I've been enjoying the hell out of it.The one I [partly] watched from the ENT guys was with Quark. He had a somewhat interesting background [he got into acting to get laid], but I didn't get far enough in to actually cover any ST ground. Mostly they've just had minor guys from ENT, but it looks like Combs and Dorn have both done their show, so I'll certainly give them another shot.
And I think there actually was a very short lived Voyager podcast with Kim and maybe Paris?
I think the problem is that the more interesting you could be, either as a host or a guest, the busier you probably are. You're not going to see Picard and Seven hosting their own podcast, awesome though it might be. Similarly they're not going to spend two hours on a Saturday hanging out talking shop with Trip and Malcolm. Two notable names that haven't been on their show are Archer and T'pol. One is probably pretty busy actually acting, and the other is so fucking rich she probably never leaves her own private island. I think that kind of sums up the dilemma.
And to that end, I give props to Frakes. He is busy. He was successful. He's likely got mad money. He still finds time to so these sorts of shows.
Apparently LaForge is coming up on the next one.
What did he say? Summarize as much as you like. I probably won't look up the podcast.Here's where they talk about it. Probably less than five minutes.
New trailer for SNW 2. Was dreading the Lower Decks crossover - but pleased to see they aren't using animation.
New trailer for SNW 2. Was dreading the Lower Decks crossover - but pleased to see they aren't using animation.
Yea, the trailer didn't do much for me. Not necessarily cause of the show, but the trailer was just so all over the place.
And now I feel a need to watch all of Lower Decks so I'm not in the dark. God dammit.
Not necessarily a good thing imo - that guy does not scream "Kirk" to me.
I tried to watch Lower Decks, and got a good half dozen or so episodes in, but the frenetic nature of it was really offputting for me. It felt hard to take seriously if the show wasn't taking itself seriously. So I wasn't exactly dreading the crossover, but it wasn't doing anything for me. But apparently they've had characters cross over from other Star Trek series, so it makes some sense to have the Lower Decks characters be live action on the live action show. So now I'm kinda looking forward to it, although I'm not sure if it'll get me to give Lower Decks another shot.
I tried to watch Lower Decks, and got a good half dozen or so episodes in, but the frenetic nature of it was really offputting for me. It felt hard to take seriously if the show wasn't taking itself seriously. So I wasn't exactly dreading the crossover, but it wasn't doing anything for me. But apparently they've had characters cross over from other Star Trek series, so it makes some sense to have the Lower Decks characters be live action on the live action show. So now I'm kinda looking forward to it, although I'm not sure if it'll get me to give Lower Decks another shot.
I find it really hard to class Lower Decks as Canon. Not just because it's animated, but because the tone (and the physics of the world) are completely different. I mean I love a good wacky animated show, but it doesn't fit Trek for me - also even taking the Trek out of it, it's still not very good, or funny.
I am Vinz, Vinz Clortho, Keymaster of Gozer. Volguus Zildrohar, Lord of the Sebouillia. Are you the GATEKEEPER!?
I absolutely LOVE Lower Decks. That and SNW saved Star Trek for me. I was about to give up entirely before those two shows came along.
Totally fair.
Rewatched the first episode. Yea, not good at all. At least it was about a problem to solve and not a huge bad villain, so that's a plus. But yea, it was so frenetic, rapid, hyper, and essentially a list of references at times that it was hard to care.
I'll try to power through.
And my statement about Picard really was more about seasons 1 and 2. While I didn't love season 3 as much as everyone else, it was easy enough to watch.
I absolutely LOVE Lower Decks. That and SNW saved Star Trek for me. I was about to give up entirely before those two shows came along.
I'm the same. Initially rejected LD, until a mate said it was his favourite new Trek. Went back to it and have loved it.
I have zero interest in watching Lower Decks.I guess your interest is... lower than the decks.
If I don’t finish it, is anyone able to explain how a show set in or after TNG is able to cross over with Pike and such?
As a Star Trek noob I just started watching TNG, it seems like the best place to start. I did some research and saw that pretty much everyone ranked season 1-2 as the worst ones, so I jumped straight into season 3. I've only seen two episodes so far but I really like it. Did I do right in skipping the first two seasons? Did I miss something vital to the overall plot?
As a Star Trek noob I just started watching TNG, it seems like the best place to start. I did some research and saw that pretty much everyone ranked season 1-2 as the worst ones, so I jumped straight into season 3. I've only seen two episodes so far but I really like it. Did I do right in skipping the first two seasons? Did I miss something vital to the overall plot?If you're going to commit to watching ST, you should probably go all in. In for an ore, in for a krona, or something like that. I mean, are you interested in watching 125 episodes, but not 175?
If you're not a completionist, it might be easier to list episodes to skip since even the meh ones are still fun and stuff.
I'd just skip over Code of Honor, The Last Outpost, Justice, Angel One, Up the Long Latter, and Shades of Grey.
I'd say the rest, while not all great, all have some value.
I feel VI is the equal of those 3. Probably better than III and IV IMO.
Your take on 6 Adami?
As I’ve gotten older, I’m always surprised at how well TMP has aged for me. It’s just that the pacing of the movie is a lot more like earlier classic sci-fi films like The Andromeda Strain or Planet of the Apes. Once you get into that head space, it’s actually an excellent film.
To tell you the truth, I’ve just grown to appreciate the slower pace of the older “pre-Star Wars” films across the board. It was about 20 years ago that I began to realize that SW was not only a game changer in the SFX department, but it was the first movie that “machine gunned” the plot at you. There’s hardly a breathable moment in the film (maybe the brief scene with Obi Wan talking to Luke on Tatooine). Don’t get me wrong, I still love SW, but it seems like most action and sci-fi films from that day forward are edited by Freddy Krueger with ADD on a sugar high. Going back to when movies just slowed down and let things develop seems very refreshing.
(https://i.postimg.cc/8P6qv6c1/FB-IMG-1685924450974.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
As I’ve gotten older, I’m always surprised at how well TMP has aged for me. It’s just that the pacing of the movie is a lot more like earlier classic sci-fi films like The Andromeda Strain or Planet of the Apes. Once you get into that head space, it’s actually an excellent film.
To tell you the truth, I’ve just grown to appreciate the slower pace of the older “pre-Star Wars” films across the board. It was about 20 years ago that I began to realize that SW was not only a game changer in the SFX department, but it was the first movie that “machine gunned” the plot at you. There’s hardly a breathable moment in the film (maybe the brief scene with Obi Wan talking to Luke on Tatooine). Don’t get me wrong, I still love SW, but it seems like most action and sci-fi films from that day forward are edited by Freddy Krueger with ADD on a sugar high. Going back to when movies just slowed down and let things develop seems very refreshing.
Jammin, my dude, I ask this as I finish the 3rd episode of Lower Decks.....how can you complain that modern sci fi is too ADHD but love Lower Decks?!?!
Anyway, this is an odd show. It is, to me, at its heart an actual Star Trek show. In that it's about characters dealing with problems/situations through creative solutions. It's not about an evil villain or the world/galaxy/whatever about to be destroyed.
But it's soooooo hard to watch. Though I admit, at the end of the 3rd episode when in future they refer to Miles as the most important member of Star Fleet, I had a big smile on my face.
I don’t see how anyone can love Futurama and NOT love Lower Decks.
I don’t see how anyone can love Futurama and NOT love Lower Decks.Why not? One is an original comedic cartoon, and the other is purportedly Star Trek. Two different things.
I don’t see how anyone can love Futurama and NOT love Lower Decks.Why not? One is an original comedic cartoon, and the other is purportedly Star Trek. Two different things.
You're right about that.I don’t see how anyone can love Futurama and NOT love Lower Decks.Why not? One is an original comedic cartoon, and the other is purportedly Star Trek. Two different things.
Not liking it doesn't stop it being Star Trek.
I like V more than most, too. A lot of people hate on it, but I truly don't get it. They weren't on a "mission to find God"; Kirk quite clearly didn't think it was God and asked him why God would need a starship. Laurence Luckinbill as Sybok was great. "What would you be willing to do if someone could take away your life's greatest pain or regret?" I thought was an interesting question to explore. I even liked the campfire scenes and "Row, Row, Row Your Boat". Spock gets it! He can sing!
ST:V has some good scenes, but the sum of those scenes is definitely greater than the film as a whole.
ST:V has some good scenes, but the sum of those scenes is definitely greater than the film as a whole.
5 > 4.
Yeah that's definitely a hot take. Care to elaborate?
There’s an old Vulcan proverb that says:
Ask men what their favorite Star Trek film is, and they’ll say Wrath of Khan.
Ask women what their favorite Star Trek film is, and they’ll say “THE ONE WITH THE WHALES!!!”
:angel: :angel:
There’s an old Vulcan proverb that says:
Ask men what their favorite Star Trek film is, and they’ll say Wrath of Khan.
Ask women what their favorite Star Trek film is, and they’ll say “THE ONE WITH THE WHALES!!!”
:angel: :angel:
STIV:TVH is Trek gone too cosy, smirky 80's family comedy for my taste. Not a genre I have a problem with, but not what I wanted from Trek.
I have a bunch more peevs with it. That's no tension, they're not in outer space, not in the future, there's no Enterprise, Spock is not quite Spock yet, there's no baddie, the whales plot bores me, the whale scientist is annoying.
STIV:TVH is Trek gone too cosy, smirky 80's family comedy for my taste. Not a genre I have a problem with, but not what I wanted from Trek.
I have a bunch more peevs with it. That's no tension, they're not in outer space, not in the future, there's no Enterprise, Spock is not quite Spock yet, there's no baddie, the whales plot bores me, the whale scientist is annoying.
After II and III they were going for something lighter in spirit and tone. And while I don't want to challenge your assessment, plenty of good TOS episodes were not focused on the Enterprise, outer space, or a Baddie. If the lack of tension ruins it for you or you found the plot boring, that is a fair criticism.
There’s an old Vulcan proverb that says:
Ask men what their favorite Star Trek film is, and they’ll say Wrath of Khan.
Ask women what their favorite Star Trek film is, and they’ll say “THE ONE WITH THE WHALES!!!”
:angel: :angel:
I haven't seen that one yet, I'm planning to watch it this weekend.
There’s an old Vulcan proverb that says:
Ask men what their favorite Star Trek film is, and they’ll say Wrath of Khan.
Ask women what their favorite Star Trek film is, and they’ll say “THE ONE WITH THE WHALES!!!”
:angel: :angel:
I haven't seen that one yet, I'm planning to watch it this weekend.
Okay I watched The Voyage Home on Saturday. It was a pretty good movie, leaning a bit more on the humour side of things this time. Wrath Of Khan is still my favourite though.
Which TNG movies do you recommend? I'm going through the TNG series now.
There’s an old Vulcan proverb that says:
Ask men what their favorite Star Trek film is, and they’ll say Wrath of Khan.
Ask women what their favorite Star Trek film is, and they’ll say “THE ONE WITH THE WHALES!!!”
:angel: :angel:
I haven't seen that one yet, I'm planning to watch it this weekend.
Okay I watched The Voyage Home on Saturday. It was a pretty good movie, leaning a bit more on the humour side of things this time. Wrath Of Khan is still my favourite though.
Which TNG movies do you recommend? I'm going through the TNG series now.
I’m completely in the minority, but Insurrection is absolutely my favorite TNG movie.Well, it feels like a mediocre two part episode that was made into a bad film.
Most people hate it for the same reason I love it. It feels like a really fantastic two-part TV episode that was made into a film.
I’m completely in the minority, but Insurrection is absolutely my favorite TNG movie.It might be my favourite, too, but only because it's the one that least annoys me. FC is certainly the better movie, but it's the one that most made a mockery out of Picard. Generations might be the most down to earth of them, but I just found it mostly boring, and occasionally dumb. I didn't care for the bad guys in Insurrection, and the premise wasn't great, but they dialed back the Ramboism quite a bit, so at least it felt like TNG.
Most people hate it for the same reason I love it. It feels like a really fantastic two-part TV episode that was made into a film.
Rewatched the SNW S1 finale just now to remind me of it before S2 starts tomorrow. Apart from that rather baffling Jim Kirk casting (him not being the focus of the show makes it easy for me to see past), really good stuff. V much looking forward to season 2.
Also Gary, not sure if I just missed what you're talking about.
Also Gary, not sure if I just missed what you're talking about.
That little girls parents were both women......the one scene shot of the Enterprise transport tech. was a very effeminate looking and sounding man. Like I said, I don't really care all that much and should probably do some work on my end to just get used to it. But after watching Discovery go of the deep end I'd prefer to see SNW stick to the story and not wind up focused on pimping an agenda.
Also Gary, not sure if I just missed what you're talking about.
That little girls parents were both women......the one scene shot of the Enterprise transport tech. was a very effeminate looking and sounding man. Like I said, I don't really care all that much and should probably do some work on my end to just get used to it. But after watching Discovery go of the deep end I'd prefer to see SNW stick to the story and not wind up focused on pimping an agenda.
I mean. Sure. I agree that Discovery went off the rails a bit. But your examples were barely on screen and not brought any attention to.
Multiple instances in this episode of those little choices……maybe not as in the face as Discovery (yet).
In the 60's the movement was women's rights, and sexual liberation and anti war. So that was some of the naritive in the original show.
Today's movements are about equality for race & sexual orientation/gender. So today's Star Trek is leaning that way today. It's not so shocking when you think about it.
Also Gary, not sure if I just missed what you're talking about.
That little girls parents were both women......the one scene shot of the Enterprise transport tech. was a very effeminate looking and sounding man. Like I said, I don't really care all that much and should probably do some work on my end to just get used to it. But after watching Discovery go of the deep end I'd prefer to see SNW stick to the story and not wind up focused on pimping an agenda.
I mean. Sure. I agree that Discovery went off the rails a bit. But your examples were barely on screen and not brought any attention to.
Meh first episode.
Liked parts of it, but tuned out once it became a dark gritty conspiracy show.
Does Star Trek realize it can be other things these days?
I guess they were bound to rip off another ST movie after ripping off Khan for so many years, and UC was a logical step, but it was a bit too blunt.
the one scene shot of the Enterprise transport tech. was a very effeminate looking and sounding man.
Meh first episode.
Liked parts of it, but tuned out once it became a dark gritty conspiracy show.
Does Star Trek realize it can be other things these days?
I guess they were bound to rip off another ST movie after ripping off Khan for so many years, and UC was a logical step, but it was a bit too blunt.
Yeah I agree with this. I liked the build up enough but once the medical team started beating up Klingon warriors with their bare hands I kind off checked out. Also the new engineer....ouch (Lwaxana vibes) that's going to be a hard sell, her voice alone bugged the hell out of me.
I just watched it, and I knew what he was talking about, and agree that it wasn't too much... yet? As others have said, just present it, put it out there, it's normal. Discovery called attention to it, and that's not the way. If Strange New Worlds continues to do it the way they did this episode, no fanfare, we'll be fine. We shall see.Quoting Orbert, but I'd like to hear from others.
I just watched it, and I knew what he was talking about, and agree that it wasn't too much... yet? As others have said, just present it, put it out there, it's normal. Discovery called attention to it, and that's not the way. If Strange New Worlds continues to do it the way they did this episode, no fanfare, we'll be fine. We shall see.Quoting Orbert, but I'd like to hear from others.
Since I never watched any of it, I'm curious. Were they just doing plots that centered around queer folk, or were they being preachy about it? I'm thinking about Orville, and while the whole Bortus angle was a little unsettling, I never felt like they were trying to convert me. They might have spent too much time on it, but that was really just not aligning with my interests. I wouldn't have called it an agenda. And if they're just doing episodes centered around these people, like Bortus, I might not have been interested, but I can't really complain that they're trying to appeal to others who might like that sort of thing.
It does seem reasonable to me that during the Klingon War, everyone was trained to fight. And from the beginning, our new doctor has given off the vibe of a dark past. But what bugged me was the performance enhancement drug angle. Which is literally a 100% rip off from season 2 of Jessica Jones. That irritated the crap out of me and took me out of that moment.
If you think the member berries are to much in Picard you'll really struggle with LD.
I really should have watched this before Picard. I'd have become completely numb to the nostalgia. This show is basically Star Trek: References.
It's not even nostalgia in this show. It's just an endless stream of references that serve no purpose.
Nearing the end of the 2nd season of Lower Decks.OK, I will continue to avoid it.
Not sure if the writing is getting a little better, or if I'm just becoming numb to the assault. I'm leaning toward the latter.
I really should have watched this before Picard. I'd have become completely numb to the nostalgia. This show is basically Star Trek: References.
It's not even nostalgia in this show. It's just an endless stream of references that serve no purpose.
The worst part isn't the meh writing, the annoying characters, the terrible energy, or the fact that 95% of any episode is them referencing other Star Trek shows.
It's the fact that story wise, and structure wise, this is the closest thing to what I consider real Trek out there. It annoys me.
If you think the member berries are to much in Picard you'll really struggle with LD.
I really should have watched this before Picard. I'd have become completely numb to the nostalgia. This show is basically Star Trek: References.
It's not even nostalgia in this show. It's just an endless stream of references that serve no purpose.
If you think the member berries are to much in Picard you'll really struggle with LD.
I really should have watched this before Picard. I'd have become completely numb to the nostalgia. This show is basically Star Trek: References.
It's not even nostalgia in this show. It's just an endless stream of references that serve no purpose.
Good lord, were you right.
I'm on the first episode of season 3 and it's just so damn many references.
Second episode was alright.....I don't mind a little courtroom drama every now and then and they did a good enough job tying all the rules and what not together to allow Una to return to duty.
Anson Mount has to be happy though......hasn't had to really do jack sh%t to earn a paycheck yet through two episodes. :lol
I got the feeling episode 2 was probably going to be the first episode, but probably wanted an action episode first so they got swapped - examples why the new witch engineer characters didn't show up.
Adami, I’m so sorry…
…that the bug up your ass had to die. :biggrin:
I got the feeling episode 2 was probably going to be the first episode, but probably wanted an action episode first so they got swapped - examples why the new witch engineer character didn't show up.
Last episode of season 3 of LD also wasn’t bad.
Ok…and I say this as SNW’s biggest fan…
That was the worst thing I have ever seen with the Star Trek label on it. Well, actually, I take that back. Nemesis was worse, but not by much.
I feel like Adami did after season 1 of Picard.
I’m usually very forgiving, but that was just awful. How could such a great show have such a huge turd in only the third episode of its second season?
I really hope this is just this series’ “Code of Honor”. Maybe we can just forget this ever happened.
When we first met Pike in STD (that acronym still cracks me up)
But people didn't like the show so thought it funnier to use STD, instead.Damn, who died and made you Stadler? :lol
I liked it! Not perfect, but really good and fun.
I’m just really surprised at everyone’s reactions. I get it. “Tastes and all” but I rather enjoyed all 3 seasons of Picard, and I love Lower Decks, and I think that up until now SNW has been the best new ST show since TNG. But that episode just felt contrived, poorly written, ham fisted, derivative, and just flat out laughable.
I’m just confused I guess.
I think a lot of this with SNW is that the casting is really good, the chemistry is there and they're writing to the strengths of the actors.
It's weird we are 3 episodes in and we have barely seem Pike!
Anson Mount has to be happy though......hasn't had to really do jack sh%t to earn a paycheck yet through two episodes. :lol
Anson Mount's wife had a baby shortly before filming, so they wrote around his availability.
Just watched SNW episode 3. Kind off agree with most, fun. (Although the car chase was really bad).
As for new Kirk - said it last season lovechild of Carrey and Bruce Campbell.
Just watched SNW episode 3. Kind off agree with most, fun. (Although the car chase was really bad).
It was a dreadful car chase. You get more thrills and spills when I'm picking up last-minute milk at the local Spar.
There was a car chase? No memory of that. Clearly not an endorsement.
I liked it! Not perfect, but really good and fun.
And Orbert is totally right, he's Jim Carrey in some ways. I couldn't put my finger on it, but that's totally it!
I liked this one, too. Adventure of the week, with some continuity to previous episodes and lore. That's the way, uh-huh (uh-huh), I like it.
This week's is great. Possibly my favourite SNW ep yet.
:lol I'm not an Evil Dead guy and I can't think of anything I've actually seen Bruce Campbell in, but I've seen stillls, and this is 100% correct.I've given this advice to several people and they've all appreciated it afterward. I doubt you'll take it, but I'd be remiss not to offer it up. Take a plate, put it on you coffee table, and dump a big pile of grass on it. Get to loading bowls and watch Evil Dead II. It's a totally different movie than the first, and not as silly as Army of Darkness. A perfect blend of dark comedy and horror.
Slightly underwhelmed by this week's. Fine but wasn't pumped. Kirk getting more Kirk-y.
Is JTK a regular character now? The two ships just always in the same neighborhood teaming up or something?
Is JTK a regular character now? The two ships just always in the same neighborhood teaming up or something?
I’m behind a few episodes, but he’s only shown up I think once this season thus far and it was an alternate reality thing.
He was also in the last episode too. Actually the actors performance is really growing on me - he's playing a slightly more dorky version of the character, but it works fine. Also while complimenting the cast - I think Ethan Peck's portrayal of Spock is fantastic, much better than Zachary Quinto (who always felt like a watered down Nimoy).
so it's a bit tough to see a completely new Uhura that has little in common with the other one, but I mostly dig it.
Watched all of about a minute of the crossover episode.....don't know any of those characters so just skipped it. I liked this weeks episode....got a little more backstory for some characters.
Good episode - but I'm starting to get a little off put by Pike’s consistent passiveness with… everything. He seems to exist in nearly every episode this season as a captain on the sidelines letting the crew just act however impulsively and unprofessionally as they want. He's just starting to come across as a weak Captain.
Yeah they're kinda going anti-TOS where Kirk was pretty much the focus of every episode. But that's what's in these days, teams and ensembles.
Yeah they're kinda going anti-TOS where Kirk was pretty much the focus of every episode. But that's what's in these days, teams and ensembles.
Which is fine. They’ve got a good cast. Let them shine. But they also have a great character in Pike. Just hope they find more of a balance and not have him so pushed to the sidelines.
Yeah they're kinda going anti-TOS where Kirk was pretty much the focus of every episode. But that's what's in these days, teams and ensembles.
Which is fine. They’ve got a good cast. Let them shine. But they also have a great character in Pike. Just hope they find more of a balance and not have him so pushed to the sidelines.
It's not just him playing a smaller role, he's just become so passive - I know him being relatable and everyone's mate is a huge part of his charm and that's great....but this season he seems to be lacking any authority.
Ok…who’s ready to buy the soundtrack to listen to in the car?
I was really starting to love this episode, but once again they had to go too far. KIRK DID NOT KNOW HE HAD A CHILD!! :facepalm:
I was really starting to love this episode, but once again they had to go too far. KIRK DID NOT KNOW HE HAD A CHILD!! :facepalm:
So was this like a Treehouse of Horror episode, where they just make a random episode that exists outside of the real world? Or was there some sort of spacial anomaly or virus that caused them to all sing?
Based on the 2 minutes I saw on YT, they've got one cast member who can sing and 17 metric shit-tons of autotune. And judging from the amount of autotune, the rest of the cast must be truly awful.
How long is it before Pike melts his face off? Judging from the amount of Kirk it seems kind of obvious that they're setting things up for the subsequent seasons where it's a proper TOS reboot. He's a recurring character at this point, and they'll introduce one of Sulu, Scott, or McCoy pretty soon.
Another great episode, afaic. Love how much different stuff they're doing in this season. The Klingon part was awesome!
So was this like a Treehouse of Horror episode, where they just make a random episode that exists outside of the real world? Or was there some sort of spacial anomaly or virus that caused them to all sing?
Based on the 2 minutes I saw on YT, they've got one cast member who can sing and 17 metric shit-tons of autotune. And judging from the amount of autotune, the rest of the cast must be truly awful.
How long is it before Pike melts his face off? Judging from the amount of Kirk it seems kind of obvious that they're setting things up for the subsequent seasons where it's a proper TOS reboot. He's a recurring character at this point, and they'll introduce one of Sulu, Scott, or McCoy pretty soon.
Spatial anomaly…and yes, there’s actually a scientific-ish explanation.
I thought it was fun. There is a crap ton of auto tune, but considering the story line and the fact that they are using their existing actors and not actual singers, I think it works.
I am quite disappointed in how this season has turned out so far. I'm amazed at what some of you are amazed by.
I feel this has been a perfectly watchable and generally enjoyable season, but it's also been most extremely lightweight (at times it feels like a work based comedy) and generally lacking much in the way of the exploration/adventure aspect of Trek. I feel like with the potential they have with this cast they could do something really special (hopefully in the future).
No spoilers but season finale was great.
Yea. I’m digging SNW a lot more than the other shows. So happy to see it keep going. But I just read that they’re going to be bringing in even more TOS characters moving forward.I said a week ago they're very clearly backdooring this into a TOS series. That's the only reason they'd make JTK a recurring character. My guess is that the Enterprise is Pike's ship for one more season and it'll be Kirk's for S4. Either McCoy or Sulu will be along around S3E3 or 4, and the other will be a season 3 finale arrival. Honestly, it's not a bad way to go about this. I just wish people would stop thinking of this as the prime timeline when it's so obviously not.
I just wish ST would love past this nostalgia phase. Sooooo much of modern Trek is nostalgia and I’m over it. Make something new and original in the spirit of ST and not needing to rely on reminding us about other ST all the time.
Yea. I’m digging SNW a lot more than the other shows. So happy to see it keep going. But I just read that they’re going to be bringing in even more TOS characters moving forward.
I just wish ST would move past this nostalgia phase. Sooooo much of modern Trek is nostalgia and I’m over it. Make something new and original in the spirit of ST and not needing to rely on reminding us about other ST all the time.
I'd probably prefer the same route. The truth is that they're using familiarity as a crutch. As much as they want to say that this is the same Star Trek in the same universe it's very clearly not. It honestly seems like they're using callbacks and known characters more for the gee-wiz moments than to actually use them for what they were. While I certainly think the tone of this is a big step forward, and they are trying to pay homage to the original idea, they're really just exploiting the actual characters.Yea. I’m digging SNW a lot more than the other shows. So happy to see it keep going. But I just read that they’re going to be bringing in even more TOS characters moving forward.
I just wish ST would move past this nostalgia phase. Sooooo much of modern Trek is nostalgia and I’m over it. Make something new and original in the spirit of ST and not needing to rely on reminding us about other ST all the time.
I'm with you. The time jump from S2 - S3 in Discovery moved us into the new but the, I don't know, approach/style/shitness blew that opportunity.
What's your fancy? For me, a brand new crew, minimal links to existing characters or aliens but doing that classic physical/moral exploration thing. I'm happy with a ship or station. Maybe both. Starfleet is the rigid but respected moral status quo. The open style of SNW is entrancing. I love it and want more of it but don't know how it would feel when not infused with the 60s throwbacks.
Yea. I’m digging SNW a lot more than the other shows. So happy to see it keep going. But I just read that they’re going to be bringing in even more TOS characters moving forward.
I just wish ST would move past this nostalgia phase. Sooooo much of modern Trek is nostalgia and I’m over it. Make something new and original in the spirit of ST and not needing to rely on reminding us about other ST all the time.
Yea. I’m digging SNW a lot more than the other shows. So happy to see it keep going. But I just read that they’re going to be bringing in even more TOS characters moving forward.
I just wish ST would move past this nostalgia phase. Sooooo much of modern Trek is nostalgia and I’m over it. Make something new and original in the spirit of ST and not needing to rely on reminding us about other ST all the time.
This complaint baffles me. From day 1….No from before day one when they announced a series about Pike’s Enterprise pre-TOS…it was obvious that they only had a limited timeline before they ran into the TOS years. So they really don’t have any choice but to make sure that, by the time Pike has his accident and Kirk takes over, the TOS cast is in place. Anyone who’s not already there would HAVE to be brought in at some point or none of this will make any sense at all.
So the lack of Pike in season 2 had nothing to do with the writers or trying to force in Kirk and the TOS crew. Turns out, Mount's wife gave birth a few months before shooting began and he asked for a reduced role in the season in order to spend time with his wife and newborn. It apparently was to continue to be a very Pike centric show but they agreed to his request and re-jiggered a bunch of scripts and his shooting schedule to allow for it. I imagine that next season will be a return to Pike, whenever all the strikes end and they can actually work on it.
I’m taking the time to pull out my BluRay’s and do my very first start to finish binge watch of TOS. As much as I’m familiar with probably 90% of these episodes, I’ve never actually sat down and watched them from beginning to end.
Something struck me as The Menagerie started. We’ve all been thinking that SNW couldn’t have more than a 5 year lifespan, but Spock states here that he served under Pike for 11 years. So there’s that.
I’m taking the time to pull out my BluRay’s and do my very first start to finish binge watch of TOS. As much as I’m familiar with probably 90% of these episodes, I’ve never actually sat down and watched them from beginning to end.
Something struck me as The Menagerie started. We’ve all been thinking that SNW couldn’t have more than a 5 year lifespan, but Spock states here that he served under Pike for 11 years. So there’s that.
A few years ago I started (and this year finished) my complete ST rewatch (minus the animated series) and TOS was not always easy to get through. I made sure not skip anything but really wanted to at times.
I might watch it one day. I think for me the animation style just was hard to sit through. I saw an episode or two and it was good but the style was distracting.
A few years ago I started (and this year finished) my complete ST rewatch (minus the animated series) and TOS was not always easy to get through. I made sure not skip anything but really wanted to at times.
I will be going through the animated series as well. It’s a part of my boxed set, and since the rights were re-acquired it has been officially declared “season 4 of TOS”. It’s the same writers and cast. And as far as I know, they mostly used story ideas from what would’ve been season 4 or stories they couldn’t use before because of budgetary issues.
Never understood those who dismiss TAS just because it’s animated. It’s actually not the “Saturday Morning Kids Show” that it appears to be. I’ve watched a few episodes and it’s surprisingly good.
Any of my fellow Niners getting the Autobiography of Benjamin Sisko next month?
During The Sisko Day events in the spring, the author had to stay silent on some direct questions about Sisko. But he slyly hinted that questions about Sisko's existence post-DS9 would be answered. Really looking forward to the book.
I felt like they had some idea what to do with Neelix and Kes, but it either wasn't fully worked out ahead of time or it changed over time. The idea of a species with such a short lifespan should have led to some interesting storylines, but it really didn't pan out. Instead they focused on how naive she was, and how Neelix was trying to be her guardian or surrogate parent, despite being pretty naive himself in a number of ways. The Internet was still in its infancy in some ways, but I remember the Usenet message boards, and once it was pointed out that Kes was only like 1.5 years old or something (though an adult in her species lifetime) there was a weird vibe.This is all pretty much correct, except I'd say that Neelix wanted to fuck her more than be a surrogate parent; that was simply part and parcel with his goal. I'd said a while back that they should have aged Kes in real time for her species (1 year per season), so she'd be a pretty old 8½ after the series run. Apparently they'd had the exact same idea but never really went ahead with it. The thing is, a whole lot of characters start off this way. They've got a general idea of how they want them to go, but it changes on the fly towards what works best. Troi was one example. Jadzia Dax was a better example. The character she became was vastly different than what was originally planned. I think with Kes she just never really got any direction. Part of that's on the writers, and part of that is probably on Lien. In ST the actors dictate quite a bit of the qualities of the character.
fan-made apparently, but this would a huge deal if it actually happened (along with in the comments, talking about Ronald D. Moore and Robert Hewitt Wolfe taking over the franchise).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2PbOqlimFlo
Insofar as I can tell, Wolfie has never been associated with Kurtzman.fan-made apparently, but this would a huge deal if it actually happened (along with in the comments, talking about Ronald D. Moore and Robert Hewitt Wolfe taking over the franchise).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2PbOqlimFlo
Where have you read about Moore and Wolfe taking over?
I'd imagine they're sticking with the Kurtzman gang forever.
So the latest thing I’ve heard about a new ST movie is that it takes place decades before the 2009 movie.
Why?
So the latest thing I’ve heard about a new ST movie is that it takes place decades before the 2009 movie.
Why?
So the latest thing I’ve heard about a new ST movie is that it takes place decades before the 2009 movie.
Why?
Is it genuinely set in that time period, or another 'current crew' time travel adventure in the past?
Skip the Ben Sisko book, I finished it last year and it was the most disappointing thing I've read the past year. I won't get into spoilers or anything like that but it jammed back full of fan service and a large chunk of the book is a DS9 character recap.
So the latest thing I’ve heard about a new ST movie is that it takes place decades before the 2009 movie.A remake of City on the Edge of Forever. These people seem hellbent to shit all over people's favourites, so why not this one?
Why?
Skip the Ben Sisko book, I finished it last year and it was the most disappointing thing I've read the past year. I won't get into spoilers or anything like that but it jammed back full of fan service and a large chunk of the book is a DS9 character recap.
That's not cool. Ugh. Thanks. If you get a moment, DM me the spoilers. Interested to know what the fan service is.
So the latest thing I’ve heard about a new ST movie is that it takes place decades before the 2009 movie.A remake of City on the Edge of Forever. These people seem hellbent to shit all over people's favourites, so why not this one?
Why?
I watched it again the other night, and holly shit, what a great episode. As good as the franchise got. It occurs to me that it is something that could be redone, for one simple reason. When Kirk and Spock go through the portal he tells Scott that if they fail they'll each need to take a stab at it (happiness, at least, Captain). Since ST always takes the 6 main characters anywhere important, there's no reason why they couldn't have 3 teams going back in time to try and salvage the situation.
It could also create the situation Roddenberry originally envisioned for a new movie where Spock the sometimes pacifist would have to assassinate somebody for the sake of history.
You asked why the new movie would take place decades before the first. I suggested that maybe they have to go back in time to kill Edith Keeler.So the latest thing I’ve heard about a new ST movie is that it takes place decades before the 2009 movie.A remake of City on the Edge of Forever. These people seem hellbent to shit all over people's favourites, so why not this one?
Why?
I watched it again the other night, and holly shit, what a great episode. As good as the franchise got. It occurs to me that it is something that could be redone, for one simple reason. When Kirk and Spock go through the portal he tells Scott that if they fail they'll each need to take a stab at it (happiness, at least, Captain). Since ST always takes the 6 main characters anywhere important, there's no reason why they couldn't have 3 teams going back in time to try and salvage the situation.
It could also create the situation Roddenberry originally envisioned for a new movie where Spock the sometimes pacifist would have to assassinate somebody for the sake of history.
Hm? You kind of lost me here. Did I miss a new story?
You asked why the new movie would take place decades before the first. I suggested that maybe they have to go back in time to kill Edith Keeler.So the latest thing I’ve heard about a new ST movie is that it takes place decades before the 2009 movie.A remake of City on the Edge of Forever. These people seem hellbent to shit all over people's favourites, so why not this one?
Why?
I watched it again the other night, and holly shit, what a great episode. As good as the franchise got. It occurs to me that it is something that could be redone, for one simple reason. When Kirk and Spock go through the portal he tells Scott that if they fail they'll each need to take a stab at it (happiness, at least, Captain). Since ST always takes the 6 main characters anywhere important, there's no reason why they couldn't have 3 teams going back in time to try and salvage the situation.
It could also create the situation Roddenberry originally envisioned for a new movie where Spock the sometimes pacifist would have to assassinate somebody for the sake of history.
Hm? You kind of lost me here. Did I miss a new story?
There is actual evidence that in fact all of Enterprise was a holosuit program created by Riker (rather than just the finale).Is it better than all of DS9 being a part of Bennie's hallucination?
There is actual evidence that in fact all of Enterprise was a holosuit program created by Riker (rather than just the finale).Is it better than all of DS9 being a part of Bennie's hallucination?
There is actual evidence that in fact all of Enterprise was a holosuit program created by Riker (rather than just the finale).Is it better than all of DS9 being a part of Bennie's hallucination?
Yeah. 90% of holosuit episodes are trash and 90% of Enterprise episodes are trash. Math don't lie ;D
Which part is inaccurate?There is actual evidence that in fact all of Enterprise was a holosuit program created by Riker (rather than just the finale).Is it better than all of DS9 being a part of Bennie's hallucination?
Yeah. 90% of holosuit episodes are trash and 90% of Enterprise episodes are trash. Math don't lie ;D
Don't make me come back there!
I'll take your word for it. I never liked the concept for Enterprise, so I never watched it.
I rejoice for you in your enjoyment.I'll take your word for it. I never liked the concept for Enterprise, so I never watched it.
That's cool. Definitely not for everyone and definitely the least good of the five main Treks. But I still enjoyed it even if few others did.
Which part is inaccurate?There is actual evidence that in fact all of Enterprise was a holosuit program created by Riker (rather than just the finale).Is it better than all of DS9 being a part of Bennie's hallucination?
Yeah. 90% of holosuit episodes are trash and 90% of Enterprise episodes are trash. Math don't lie ;D
Don't make me come back there!
Having watched all of TNG, DS9, and even Voyager, I figured I'd give Enterprise a try. I don't remember now if it was the very first episode, or if I'd missed it and caught another early episode, but I remember it having a horrible theme song, and that they'd decided to go with a "hot Vulcan babe". The first scene I saw was some kind of excuse to have them strip to their underwear and take a cosmic shower, co-ed. I mean, yeah she was cute, but if "new Trek" had stooped to this level of fanboyservice, then I was out.
Having watched all of TNG, DS9, and even Voyager, I figured I'd give Enterprise a try. I don't remember now if it was the very first episode, or if I'd missed it and caught another early episode, but I remember it having a horrible theme song, and that they'd decided to go with a "hot Vulcan babe". The first scene I saw was some kind of excuse to have them strip to their underwear and take a cosmic shower, co-ed. I mean, yeah she was cute, but if "new Trek" had stooped to this level of fanboyservice, then I was out.I think the theme song is one of the reasons the show failed so hard. That was just a bad idea. As for having T'pol (and occasionally Hoshi :tup) running around with little on, there's no reason that can't be part of an otherwise good episode. The problem is only if you rely on that at the expense of everything else, and I don't think they ever did that. Vulcan titties were a side, not an entree, and ENT was hardly the first ST series to offer that up.
Part of this opinion has to be simply me getting older, and being way more nitpicky, but I just feel the quality of all Star Trek stuff has plummeted since DS9. I know Voyager has its fans, and Voyager was okay, but I always felt like it was (forgive me, those of you who are hardcore Voyager fanatics) just done to give more of a reboot to the whole "five-year mission" of the TOS. I felt Next Generation made sense, particularly as it got into its middle seasons, and DS9 was a unique perspective. But after that, it just flopped for me, including the feature films. I watched Voyager, Enterprise, and tried watching most of the rest (I did watch Picard Season 3 in-full and enjoyed the fan service), but it just doesn't feel as legit. Didn't connect.
It just feels forced. Even the stuff with good conceptual ideas (Lower Decks) isn't really at the quality level or connects as impactful as TOS, TNG and DS9.
I know it's just one simple opinion, and I don't mean to offend. I just wish it was different (for me) so I could really love Star Trek again. I thought Picard Season 3 was great closure for TNG. But seriously, I'm not at all interested in Seven and Raffi and continuing adventures of them. Nor do I care to see what old man Picard does.
I wish someone on their team was able to come up with something in the Star Trek universe that truly felt (to me) to be very novel and interesting.
I'll take your word for it. I never liked the concept for Enterprise, so I never watched it.
That's cool. Definitely not for everyone and definitely the least good of the five main Treks. But I still enjoyed it even if few others did.
Shatner documentary " You Can Call Me Bill" premiering this week
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kKVutwU9Kns
Shatner documentary " You Can Call Me Bill" premiering this week
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kKVutwU9Kns
Awesome! Old Bill is an icon for sure.
Method acting? From the way I see it he's about the exact opposite of a method actor. I'm not knocking on the guy, I'm a big fan, but his style is very much unique.Shatner documentary " You Can Call Me Bill" premiering this week
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kKVutwU9Kns
Awesome! Old Bill is an icon for sure.
I'm in!
Shatner has been made fun of for his method acting but people don't understand how actors, back in the day, actually performed. Has anyone watched The Devils Rain? Classic cheese but one of my favorites!
Method acting? From the way I see it he's about the exact opposite of a method actor. I'm not knocking on the guy, I'm a big fan, but his style is very much unique.Shatner documentary " You Can Call Me Bill" premiering this week
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kKVutwU9Kns
Awesome! Old Bill is an icon for sure.
I'm in!
Shatner has been made fun of for his method acting but people don't understand how actors, back in the day, actually performed. Has anyone watched The Devils Rain? Classic cheese but one of my favorites!
Method acting? From the way I see it he's about the exact opposite of a method actor. I'm not knocking on the guy, I'm a big fan, but his style is very much unique.Shatner documentary " You Can Call Me Bill" premiering this week
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kKVutwU9Kns
Awesome! Old Bill is an icon for sure.
I'm in!
Shatner has been made fun of for his method acting but people don't understand how actors, back in the day, actually performed. Has anyone watched The Devils Rain? Classic cheese but one of my favorites!
Well, I think he's the very embodiment of method acting as he really immersed himself into expressive acting which is what method acting is.
Shatner is the opposite of method acting.Disagree.
Instead of asking "How can I become this character?" he asks "How can this character become me?"
Yeah, but that doesn't have anything to do with Method acting.Shatner is the opposite of method acting.Disagree.
Instead of asking "How can I become this character?" he asks "How can this character become me?"
Method acting, known as the Method, is a range of rehearsal techniques, as formulated by a number of different theatre practitioners, that seeks to encourage sincere and expressive performances through identifying with, understanding, and experiencing a character's inner motivation and emotions.
He does have a live theater background as actors from his era commonly had. Live theater emphasis what could be called "over-acting" but it's necessary in a live performance which he had experience in.
Yeah, but that doesn't have anything to do with Method acting.Shatner is the opposite of method acting.Disagree.
Instead of asking "How can I become this character?" he asks "How can this character become me?"
Method acting, known as the Method, is a range of rehearsal techniques, as formulated by a number of different theatre practitioners, that seeks to encourage sincere and expressive performances through identifying with, understanding, and experiencing a character's inner motivation and emotions.
He does have a live theater background as actors from his era commonly had. Live theater emphasis what could be called "over-acting" but it's necessary in a live performance which he had experience in.
Daniel Day Lewis didn't PLAY Abraham Lincoln, he WAS Abraham Lincoln, for the entirety of that shoot, on and off set, 24/7. William Shatner is not Captain Kirk, he just plays William Shatner playing Captain Kirk.
It's the live theater experience that defined the way he played Captain Kirk. He's playing him as if it's a stage production. While some stage actors do dig into method acting, it's a very different thing than the traditional hammy, loud approach. The DDL as Lincoln thing is a good analogy, and at no point does DDL ever think "how should I do this." He just does it because he is Lincoln. Shatner, by his own admission, was always looking at how best to portray Kirk in any given scene, which is exactly the opposite of the method. Owing in part to the fact that they were doing something kind of new on TV, and nobody was entirely sure how it should be presented. He never was Kirk.Shatner is the opposite of method acting.Disagree.
Instead of asking "How can I become this character?" he asks "How can this character become me?"
Method acting, known as the Method, is a range of rehearsal techniques, as formulated by a number of different theatre practitioners, that seeks to encourage sincere and expressive performances through identifying with, understanding, and experiencing a character's inner motivation and emotions.
He does have a live theater background as actors from his era commonly had. Live theater emphasis what could be called "over-acting" but it's necessary in a live performance which he had experience in.
It's the live theater experience that defined the way he played Captain Kirk. He's playing him as if it's a stage production. While some stage actors do dig into method acting, it's a very different thing than the traditional hammy, loud approach. The DDL as Lincoln thing is a good analogy, and at no point does DDL ever think "how should I do this." He just does it because he is Lincoln. Shatner, by his own admission, was always looking at how best to portray Kirk in any given scene, which is exactly the opposite of the method. Owing in part to the fact that they were doing something kind of new on TV, and nobody was entirely sure how it should be presented. He never was Kirk.Shatner is the opposite of method acting.Disagree.
Instead of asking "How can I become this character?" he asks "How can this character become me?"
Method acting, known as the Method, is a range of rehearsal techniques, as formulated by a number of different theatre practitioners, that seeks to encourage sincere and expressive performances through identifying with, understanding, and experiencing a character's inner motivation and emotions.
He does have a live theater background as actors from his era commonly had. Live theater emphasis what could be called "over-acting" but it's necessary in a live performance which he had experience in.
It is still fun to watch Shatner in his parts. I agree. I said in my first post I wasn't bagging on him as I was a big fan. I (and others) are simply saying that his approach is pretty much the polar opposite of method acting. That's not a knock against him.It's the live theater experience that defined the way he played Captain Kirk. He's playing him as if it's a stage production. While some stage actors do dig into method acting, it's a very different thing than the traditional hammy, loud approach. The DDL as Lincoln thing is a good analogy, and at no point does DDL ever think "how should I do this." He just does it because he is Lincoln. Shatner, by his own admission, was always looking at how best to portray Kirk in any given scene, which is exactly the opposite of the method. Owing in part to the fact that they were doing something kind of new on TV, and nobody was entirely sure how it should be presented. He never was Kirk.Shatner is the opposite of method acting.Disagree.
Instead of asking "How can I become this character?" he asks "How can this character become me?"
Method acting, known as the Method, is a range of rehearsal techniques, as formulated by a number of different theatre practitioners, that seeks to encourage sincere and expressive performances through identifying with, understanding, and experiencing a character's inner motivation and emotions.
He does have a live theater background as actors from his era commonly had. Live theater emphasis what could be called "over-acting" but it's necessary in a live performance which he had experience in.
Well I can't agree with you on this. Lincoln the movie, sucked. We couldn't make more than 40 minutes before we bailed. BUT, it's still fun to watch Shatner in his parts and I celebrate him and will see the movie which is no where close to where I live. :(
Well I can't agree with you on this. Lincoln the movie, sucked. We couldn't make more than 40 minutes before we bailed.What does that have anything to do with it?
Instead of asking "How can I become this character?" he asks "How can this character become me?"
Also did anyone else realize that Jack wasn’t really mini Picard but was essentially being Kirk? They kept talking about how Jack is so much like Jean Luc but other than the accent, it never really seemed that way. But he was a dead ringer for a mini British Kirk.
in favor of Star Trek: Michael Burnham is Fucking Amazing at Everything.
I've watched the first four seasons of Discovery
The chase scene on Arrakis or whatever was filmed like a Michael Bay Transformers scene. Just so over the top and the characters are so calm that the juxtaposition both eliminates any sense of adventure of energy and also eliminates any reason to care what is happening.
Obviously it was my love for Dream Theater that brought me to these boards, but their last 3 albums have done nothing for me to be honest. Its really been this Star Trek thread that kept me coming back, but watching those first two episodes of Discovery ( after forcing my way though Season 4) I just feel completely numb towards it, I think my time here is done.
Per Variety, Season 5 of Lower Decks will be the last, and Strange New Worlds has been renewed for Season 4 (even though I think Season 3 is still filming).