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General => New Political and Religious Forum => Topic started by: Chino on January 05, 2016, 09:29:41 AM

Title: The militia in Oregon.
Post by: Chino on January 05, 2016, 09:29:41 AM
Why don't the feds just cut all utilities to the building?
Title: Re: The militia in Oregon.
Post by: Sir GuitarCozmo on January 05, 2016, 09:40:51 AM
I have little to add to this really, but that I've heard them referred to as Y'all Qaeda and Vanilla Isis.  I lol'd.
Title: Re: The militia in Oregon.
Post by: El Barto on January 05, 2016, 09:56:36 AM
Why don't the feds just cut all utilities to the building?
Eventually they will. However those guys are out there sleeping in -10° weather. They're prepared to make do.

I'm perfectly fine with just ignoring them. Sooner or later you might have to act, but as of right now they're largely irrelevant. What I would suggest is maintaining tons of aerial surveillance. If something does go bad, I'd want all the evidence in the world about what really happened. No amount of video will ever convince the people who think Clinton had the Davidians murdered, but for most of us it'll actually matter.

Also, LOL at the people who think that the near-100 year long encroachment of the federal government in that region is the result of Obama's commie ideology.
Title: Re: The militia in Oregon.
Post by: gmillerdrake on January 05, 2016, 10:04:41 AM
No amount of video will ever convince the people who think Clinton had the Davidians murdered, but for most of us it'll actually matter.

One of the largest travesty's ever....in the history of our country....the federal Government outright storming and murdering it's own citizens just to cover up it's own ineptness and illegal actions, then gets the media to brand it as the fault of the 'crazy cult'.
Title: Re: The militia in Oregon.
Post by: El Barto on January 05, 2016, 10:13:53 AM
No amount of video will ever convince the people who think Clinton had the Davidians murdered, but for most of us it'll actually matter.

One of the largest travesty's ever....in the history of our country....the federal Government outright storming and murdering it's own citizens just to cover up it's own ineptness and illegal actions, then gets the media to brand it as the fault of the 'crazy cult'.
I believe you and I have had this discussion before. The government acted with its customary incompetence, but the cult was crazy and they did barbeque themselves.
Title: Re: The militia in Oregon.
Post by: Chino on January 05, 2016, 10:14:46 AM
I haven't the slightest clue what either of you are saying/talking about. Can you explain like I'm five?
Title: Re: The militia in Oregon.
Post by: gmillerdrake on January 05, 2016, 10:35:33 AM
I haven't the slightest clue what either of you are saying/talking about. Can you explain like I'm five?

Long story short.....the ATF raided the Branch Davidians on the 'claims' that they were selling illegal gun parts....that could modify semi automatic weapons to fully automatic. The Davidians did sell guns, but....they offered to the ATF to come and take a look for themselves.

There was a hearing for more funding for the ATF and I'm assuming they thought that a big 'successful' raid on some bad guys would bolster their case...so they decided to raid the Davidians instead. A shootout occurred and subsequently a long standoff that ended in the compound going up in flames, killing all the Davidans which included children.

What wasn't seen by the public was the fact in the Senate hearings following this failed raid was that all video the ATF shot during the raid went missing, the front door to the Davidian compound went missing (which would have shown which direction the initial bullets were fired from) The ATF claimed the Davidians opened fire....something that was contested by Vernon Howell (David Koresch) over and over in the standoff.

There is FLIR video from a plane that clearly shows agents firing guns at the Davidians when they were trying to escape the fire (which EB and I disagree on who started it) I think the evidence is pretty clear that the government used their modified tanks to smash open the four corners of the building which created a perfect wind tunnel to fuel the fire....then they pumped the nerve gas into the compound from the modified tanks....and threw flash bang grenades into the compound which started the fire. The nerve gas by the way was pumped directly into the room where the kids were.....their bodies were bend over backwards from the reaction to the nerve agent...anyway......

there was a documentary made in the late 90's called 'Rules of Engagement' and it details the Senate meetings and all the evidence which clearly illustrates the government killed those people.

The Cult was nuts.....I'll give them that, but they didn't break any laws.




Title: Re: The militia in Oregon.
Post by: hefdaddy42 on January 05, 2016, 10:40:22 AM
If a group of armed, militant black men took over a Federal building in, say, Atlanta, would it be treated differently than this episode is being treated?  I would say yes.
Title: Re: The militia in Oregon.
Post by: Chino on January 05, 2016, 10:50:56 AM
If a group of armed, militant black men took over a Federal building in, say, Atlanta, would it be treated differently than this episode is being treated?  I would say yes.

I'd say the take over of any federal building other than this one would have gotten a response much different than what we've seen so far. The building they are in is in the middle of nowhere and gets less foot traffic than my bathroom at home. These guys couldn't pick a safer place to squat.

If an all black militia took over this same building in the exact same fashion, and were acting in the same manner, I think the feds reaction would have been exactly the same. If an all black militia took over a federal building in Atlanta, I'm not sure what the result would be. I think in the name of the second amendment, white militiamen would jump in and join.

Title: Re: The militia in Oregon.
Post by: El Barto on January 05, 2016, 11:18:44 AM
(which EB and I disagree on who started it)
No, actually we disagree on there was gunplay at all. Muzzle flashes are very consistent when seen on video. They last 1 frame (at 30 FPS). They don't change. The average duration of the glints seen on the FLIR video average 7 frames in duration. They're light and thermal reflections seen in IR.

And a few side points: If LEA is serving a lawful warrant, do you get to shoot at them? They were overheard torching the place in pretty good detail, which would fulfill DK's prophecies. The survivors are very clear on the fact that they were expecting to martyr themselves in fulfillment of that prophecy.

You might check out the Frontline documentary on the affair. Even-handed, as they usually are.
Title: Re: The militia in Oregon.
Post by: gmillerdrake on January 05, 2016, 12:00:08 PM
You might check out the Frontline documentary on the affair. Even-handed, as they usually are.

You know what....you told me about this one the last time we talked about this and I completely forgot to check it out. I need to do that because the only doc I've watched was the 'Rules of Engagement' one and it did tend to lean to the side of the Davidians.

And, I want to clear up that I'm not defending DK.....dude was a whack job that raped little girls. The sad part is that the little girls he did rape had parents that gave permission to DK to do so....and in Texas at that time parental consent is all that he needed.
Title: Re: The militia in Oregon.
Post by: El Barto on January 05, 2016, 12:25:27 PM
You might check out the Frontline documentary on the affair. Even-handed, as they usually are.

You know what....you told me about this one the last time we talked about this and I completely forgot to check it out. I need to do that because the only doc I've watched was the 'Rules of Engagement' one and it did tend to lean to the side of the Davidians.
Yeah, I remember watching W:RoE and finding it a little to pushy towards the guy's beliefs. Frontline makes it a point to talk to everybody it can to get the all around picture.  In this case it's the interviews with the FBI negotiator that are most enlightening. He's the first to admit that the FBI/ATF bungled it in many ways, himself included, but he had a lot of time invested in bringing that thing to a safe conclusion and was devastated by what happened. If you want a great analysis of all of the mistakes the FBI made it's the thing to see. Their mistakes led to the Davidians killing themselves, but that's not the same as knocking the walls down, gassing them, shooting escapees and torching the place.
Title: Re: The militia in Oregon.
Post by: kaos2900 on January 05, 2016, 01:57:31 PM
If a group of armed, militant black men took over a Federal building in, say, Atlanta, would it be treated differently than this episode is being treated?  I would say yes.

I'd say the take over of any federal building other than this one would have gotten a response much different than what we've seen so far. The building they are in is in the middle of nowhere and gets less foot traffic than my bathroom at home. These guys couldn't pick a safer place to squat.

If an all black militia took over this same building in the exact same fashion, and were acting in the same manner, I think the feds reaction would have been exactly the same. If an all black militia took over a federal building in Atlanta, I'm not sure what the result would be. I think in the name of the second amendment, white militiamen would jump in and join.

This. I'm not saying agree with what they are doing, but they are handling this in a way different matter than a group like BLM would. This by my definition is a civil protest. Doesn't matter what color you skin is but how you act that should illicit the response.
Title: Re: The militia in Oregon.
Post by: Cool Chris on January 05, 2016, 02:08:34 PM
This by my definition is a civil protest.

As much I think taking over a federal building is an act of terrorism more than a "civil protest," I can't help but appreciate they are going this route rather than marching through traffic or taking over a shopping center.
Title: Re: The militia in Oregon.
Post by: Chino on January 05, 2016, 02:27:08 PM
This by my definition is a civil protest.

As much I think taking over a federal building is an act of terrorism more than a "civil protest," I can't help but appreciate they are going this route rather than marching through traffic or taking over a shopping center.

I'm still waiting for it to unfold. These people have too much pride to just get up and walk away, and I highly doubt their demands (are we even sure of what those are exactly?) will be met. I feel like something is bound to happen eventually.
Title: Re: The militia in Oregon.
Post by: hefdaddy42 on January 05, 2016, 02:37:12 PM
This by my definition is a civil protest. Doesn't matter what color you skin is but how you act that should illicit the response.
So if you break into a Federal building and occupy it while heavily armed, but you're polite about it, it's OK?

I really don't get how this is being handled and viewed at all. 
Title: Re: The militia in Oregon.
Post by: El Barto on January 05, 2016, 02:43:33 PM
Some of them will be prosecuted, eventually, but there's no reason to turn it into a bloodbath. The siege of Alcatraz lasted 19 months. Like I said before, you isolate them and leave them be for a while. Some will get bored and leave. In a few months you go in and round up whoever's left. Prosecute those guys. I reckon they have until wildfire season to ignore them.


edit: A bit of reading suggests that it won't take anywhere near that long. They're laughably undermanned and unprepared. Bundy's been pleading for more people to join his cause, but it doesn't seem to be happening. Moreover, the local townsfolk want them to leave. The Man's best bet is to offer up a token gesture as a way to save face and they'll give up on their own. Then send them a bill for cleaning up the mess they made.

Interestingly, one of them provided an address to send necessary supplies to, which presumably they're relying on the US postal service to deliver.  :lol
Title: Re: The militia in Oregon.
Post by: El Barto on January 05, 2016, 02:56:11 PM
I have little to add to this really, but that I've heard them referred to as Y'all Qaeda and Vanilla Isis.  I lol'd.
We can now add: YeeHadists and Yokel Haram to the lexicon.  :lol
Title: Re: The militia in Oregon.
Post by: Podaar on January 05, 2016, 07:06:06 PM
I don't know why, but Yokel Haram is kicking my ass.  :rollin
Title: Re: The militia in Oregon.
Post by: Cool Chris on January 05, 2016, 07:42:38 PM
Those names are pretty hilarious.

Seriously, EB is right, this should end soon, they don't have any backing from the locals. But this can't be allowed to set a precedent.

Also, there's this from ABC News: "Man Behind Armed Oregon Band Says He's on Mission From God."

(http://bluraymedia.ign.com/bluray/image/article/118/1182433/the-blues-brothers-20110718015714670-000.jpg)
Title: Re: The militia in Oregon.
Post by: El Barto on January 05, 2016, 10:43:51 PM
Seriously, EB is right, this should end soon, they don't have any backing from the locals. But this can't be allowed to set a precedent.
I think the way you prevent this from becoming a precedent is by ignoring their silly asses right on into pathetic irrelevance.
Title: Re: The militia in Oregon.
Post by: Chino on January 06, 2016, 05:54:58 AM
Seriously, EB is right, this should end soon, they don't have any backing from the locals. But this can't be allowed to set a precedent.
I think the way you prevent this from becoming a precedent is by ignoring their silly asses right on into pathetic irrelevance.

Agreed. I understand there's freedom of the press, but I wish we could just tell the media that they can't go within a half mile of the building. Give these guys no press. Show them no attention whatsoever. Cut off the power and running water. They'll be gone in two weeks. Once everything settles, charge everyone in there with breaking and entering.
Title: Re: The militia in Oregon.
Post by: Prog Snob on January 06, 2016, 06:10:52 AM
Seriously, EB is right, this should end soon, they don't have any backing from the locals. But this can't be allowed to set a precedent.
I think the way you prevent this from becoming a precedent is by ignoring their silly asses right on into pathetic irrelevance.

I doubt that will stop someone else from doing the same exact thing a year from now. The media won't be able to stay away from it, especially if it's a chance for the liberal media to show another consequence of the "dangers of guns."
Title: Re: The militia in Oregon.
Post by: El Barto on January 06, 2016, 08:05:18 AM
Seriously, EB is right, this should end soon, they don't have any backing from the locals. But this can't be allowed to set a precedent.
I think the way you prevent this from becoming a precedent is by ignoring their silly asses right on into pathetic irrelevance.

Agreed. I understand there's freedom of the press, but I wish we could just tell the media that they can't go within a half mile of the building. Give these guys no press. Show them no attention whatsoever. Cut off the power and running water. They'll be gone in two weeks. Once everything settles, charge everyone in there with breaking and entering.
It's the press coverage that's showing us how underwhelming these people really are. Let them talk all they want. The more they try to look impressive, yet come across as weak, the more they'll look like losers when they walk out of there.
Title: Re: The militia in Oregon.
Post by: Stadler on January 06, 2016, 11:33:27 AM
Pretty much have zero to add to this that el Barto hasn't said already in half the words.   
Title: Re: The militia in Oregon.
Post by: El Barto on January 06, 2016, 09:49:27 PM
So first the townsfolk want them gone. Then the local constabulary said it wants them gone. Now they got the Indians pissed at them.  :lol

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2016/01/06/oregon-standoff-leader-compares-effort-rosa-parks/78345968/

Gotta say, if anybody has a right to bitch about land being stolen it's the red man. Not sure how Bundy can really formulate an argument against them.
Title: Re: The militia in Oregon.
Post by: lonestar on January 07, 2016, 12:31:20 AM
So first the townsfolk want them gone. Then the local constabulary said it wants them gone. Now they got the Indians pissed at them.  :lol

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2016/01/06/oregon-standoff-leader-compares-effort-rosa-parks/78345968/

Gotta say, if anybody has a right to bitch about land being stolen it's the red man. Not sure how Bundy can really formulate an argument against them.

It would take some serious stretching to wiggle an argument there for sure.
Title: Re: The militia in Oregon.
Post by: Genowyn on January 07, 2016, 12:44:35 AM
A good video (besides the mistake on the capital) on why the whole thing is absurd: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5e7-7vWWW6Y
Title: Re: The militia in Oregon.
Post by: Stadler on January 07, 2016, 06:59:38 AM
Honestly, I know "race" has been mooted by some as being an element in this, but there is one commonality at this point for me.   I couldn't care any less about the militia in Oregon than I could about the latest "#blacklivesmatter" attention-grab, I'm sorry, I mean "protest". 

They've both exhausted their 15 minutes with me.
Title: Re: The militia in Oregon.
Post by: Prog Snob on January 07, 2016, 07:44:02 AM
#proglivesmatter 
Title: Re: The militia in Oregon.
Post by: Stadler on January 07, 2016, 08:14:11 AM
^^^ Haha, yes, yes they do.  :)
Title: Re: The militia in Oregon.
Post by: jasc15 on January 13, 2016, 03:58:41 PM
This is my contribution to this thread:

Oregon Miltia Idiot Upset Because People Are Sending Bags of Dicks (http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=4ea_1452637853)
Title: Re: The militia in Oregon.
Post by: El Barto on January 13, 2016, 06:13:02 PM
 :lol
Quote
As for the Bag Of Dicks business, the company was launched in Austin during SXSW last year, and the mention in the militia's video is basically a bag of free advertising -- grabbing thousands of eyes from the original Facebook post and all the blogs that followed. Now, the company is offering people a 25% discount when sending a Bag Of Dicks to Ritzheimer at his general mail address in Burns, Oregon.
"When the Oregon Militia posted their address asking for snacks, obviously we had to act," the company said in a blog post (http://shipabagofdicks.com/blogs/blog). "And act we did...by blasting our thousands of email subscribers with a promo code to send those 'brave souls' Bags Of Dicks."
"It's the American way to help our brothers in arms in any way we can," the Bag Of Dicks company wrote. "We're proud the Oregon Militia is enjoying our tasty Bags Of Dicks. They could certainly use the high fructose sugar rush to help keep their stronghold safe from police, bears, and elderly gift shop patrons."
Title: Re: The militia in Oregon.
Post by: Chino on January 14, 2016, 03:43:01 AM
This is my contribution to this thread:

Oregon Miltia Idiot Upset Because People Are Sending Bags of Dicks (http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=4ea_1452637853)

That just shows the intelligence level of these people. That man has no idea what kind of door he just opened by showing that. The internet is about to show its true wrath.

"We're going to keep doing work". By work, does he mean squatting in a tax funded building while begging people over the internet to send them free stuff so they can continue to squat?
Title: Re: The militia in Oregon.
Post by: jasc15 on January 14, 2016, 06:38:43 AM
I watched a video which made an excellent point:  If government claims of ownership are illegitimate, which is the claim of these folks, then any claim of private ownership resulting from the homestead act and related acts are also illegitimate since it was never the government's property to give.

The idea that private ownership exists outside of some government framework is absurd, when you really think about it.  If I claim a piece of land, what makes it mine?  There must be some legal framework to prevent others from making claims on "my" property.  Otherwise it is simply feudalism where I have to defend my claim with force, and nothing prevents a more powerful force from taking it from me.  Private ownership cannot exist without government.
Title: Re: The militia in Oregon.
Post by: Stadler on January 14, 2016, 06:56:38 AM
I watched a video which made an excellent point:  If government claims of ownership are illegitimate, which is the claim of these folks, then any claim of private ownership resulting from the homestead act and related acts are also illegitimate since it was never the government's property to give.

The idea that private ownership exists outside of some government framework is absurd, when you really think about it.  If I claim a piece of land, what makes it mine?  There must be some legal framework to prevent others from making claims on "my" property.  Otherwise it is simply feudalism where I have to defend my claim with force, and nothing prevents a more powerful force from taking it from me.  Private ownership cannot exist without government.

Please don't ruin this by trying to baffle them with reason, logic and fact.  :) 
Title: Re: The militia in Oregon.
Post by: hefdaddy42 on January 14, 2016, 08:28:08 AM
So nothing has been done about these douchenozzles yet?

I've gotta be honest, that pisses me off a little. 
Title: Re: The militia in Oregon.
Post by: El Barto on January 14, 2016, 09:01:03 AM
They've got a meeting with the locals tomorrow and I suspect they're told to GTFO. At this point I reckon they're looking for an excuse to give up. What they're doing is insignificant in the grand scheme, so I consider this fantastic strategy.
Title: Re: The militia in Oregon.
Post by: Chino on January 14, 2016, 10:12:22 AM
They've got a meeting with the locals tomorrow and I suspect they're told to GTFO. At this point I reckon they're looking for an excuse to give up. What they're doing is insignificant in the grand scheme, so I consider this fantastic strategy.

I reckon that deep down a lot of them are hoping for an excuse to use their trigger fingers.
Title: Re: The militia in Oregon.
Post by: jasc15 on January 14, 2016, 11:20:32 AM
Yeah I feel some of them would like nothing more than a firefight with some federal officials.
Title: Re: The militia in Oregon.
Post by: Sir GuitarCozmo on January 14, 2016, 11:35:38 AM
'Murca
Title: Re: The militia in Oregon.
Post by: Genowyn on January 14, 2016, 12:06:56 PM
Yep.
Title: Re: The militia in Oregon.
Post by: Chino on January 15, 2016, 09:31:41 AM
Good read;

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/jan/14/armed-oregon-militia-federal-law-legal-experts-prosecution-prison-fines

Quote
Over the past two weeks, the militia have made themselves at home in a number of federal buildings, using the site’s kitchens, beds, offices, museum and other buildings. The Guardian has repeatedly witnessed occupiers driving federal vehicles around the compound. Other reporters have also observed members of the militia accessing government computers and possibly using employee ID badges left on site.


Title: Re: The militia in Oregon.
Post by: SystematicThought on January 26, 2016, 09:03:04 PM
And now we've got violence, death, and arrests

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/27/us/oregon-armed-group-arrest-bundy.html?_r=0 (http://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/27/us/oregon-armed-group-arrest-bundy.html?_r=0)
Title: Re: The militia in Oregon.
Post by: El Barto on January 26, 2016, 09:19:37 PM
I hope Johnny had a helluva lot of video surveillance happening when this went down. As I've said, no amount of video in the world will sway the true believers, but I'd just as soon see a high level of CYA in something like this.

And the [lack of] support from the right is pretty interesting. FOX has the story halfway buried, and their minions posting comments are pretty much of the good riddance mindset. It's Obama's fault, of course, but a rather trivial offense in the grand scheme.
Title: Re: The militia in Oregon.
Post by: Chino on January 27, 2016, 06:23:58 AM
If the police didn't have every dash and body cam aimed at this situation, this could get ugly. One of the victim's children posted to Facebook;

Quote
"I want the world to know how my father was murdered today. His hands were in the air and he was shot in the face by the American authorities. Ammon Bundy reported there are six witnesses to this evil."


This article actually has a lot of quotes that I'm not seeing elsewhere.
http://www.infowars.com/eyewitness-oregon-militiaman-murdered-by-cops-he-had-his-hands-in-the-air/
Title: Re: The militia in Oregon.
Post by: kaos2900 on January 27, 2016, 06:39:21 AM
This whole situation has just been strange. And yes, I hope they have film of the shooting or you are going to see more situations like these. People are already fed up with the federal government as it is. It wouldn't surprise me if the FBI "loses" the footage somehow.
Title: Re: The militia in Oregon.
Post by: El Barto on January 27, 2016, 08:11:53 AM
If the white gun nuts now have to adopt Hands Up Don't Shoot it's going to be priceless.
Title: Re: The militia in Oregon.
Post by: Chino on January 27, 2016, 08:13:10 AM
 :lol :lol
Title: Re: The militia in Oregon.
Post by: Stadler on January 27, 2016, 10:36:18 AM
Does it make me a bad person that I absolutely could not care less about this whole thing?   My general interest in politics and current affairs should not be in doubt, but this is... <YAWN>.
Title: Re: The militia in Oregon.
Post by: jasc15 on January 27, 2016, 11:28:31 AM
If the white gun nuts now have to adopt Hands Up Don't Shoot it's going to be priceless.
They are already adopting elements of this:

Quote from: http://www.reuters.com/article/us-oregon-militia-idUSKCN0V5080
The protester [Jason] Patrick likened Finicum’s death to the killing of Tamir Rice, an unarmed 12-year-old African American boy fatally shot by police outside a Cleveland recreation center in 2014. The officers were not charged.

"The government can kill who they want for whatever reason they want with impunity," Patrick said.
Title: Re: The militia in Oregon.
Post by: jasc15 on January 27, 2016, 11:35:03 AM
Does it make me a bad person that I absolutely could not care less about this whole thing?   My general interest in politics and current affairs should not be in doubt, but this is... <YAWN>.
I tend to remain on a "low information diet"*, as the below blogger explains.  Maybe it's defeatist, but I can't change the course of societal momentum.  No individual can.

Quote from: http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2013/10/01/the-low-information-diet/
Last night, a military friend of mine mentioned the impending doom to me, which is the first I had heard of the situation. Unfortunately that triggered a late night of sweaty reading on my part, catching up on the history of this predicament, cursing the bullshit and the rhetoric of the responsible members of congress, and generally being pissed off about things.  But after an uneasy sleep and a slightly groggy morning, I opened my shutters and found a clear blue sky with bright yellow sun, singing birds, and my lovely family running up to me to request hugs and breakfast. And thus, my plans for today do not include reading any more of the news.

*of course I realize I've posted in this thread about the situation in question.
Title: Re: The militia in Oregon.
Post by: Ben_Jamin on January 27, 2016, 12:09:42 PM
Oooo. The shit just hit the fan.

I hope they have video or else it's gonna cause some massive backlash against cops.
Title: Re: The militia in Oregon.
Post by: El Barto on January 27, 2016, 03:56:16 PM
So the dead guy is the one that made it clear that he was willing to die for the cause, and that he'd rather be shot than arrested. I suppose that's why Obama ordered a death squad to go and execute him.

Sources from within LEA said that they lit up two vehicles which pulled over. One remained stopped and the other took off. After driving into a snow bank the driver jumped out brandishing a gun and was promptly shot. Given the guy's attitude that actually seems rather plausible.
Title: Re: The militia in Oregon.
Post by: orcus116 on January 27, 2016, 04:27:32 PM
I'm actually surprised/bummed that there wasn't a higher body count.
Title: Re: The militia in Oregon.
Post by: Chino on January 28, 2016, 06:23:21 AM
Welp, after being arrested and having his #2 killed, Bundy has called for the remaining squatters to pack up and leave. Let's see how serious these guys really are.
Title: Re: The militia in Oregon.
Post by: Stadler on January 28, 2016, 07:36:05 AM
If the white gun nuts now have to adopt Hands Up Don't Shoot it's going to be priceless.
They are already adopting elements of this:

Quote from: http://www.reuters.com/article/us-oregon-militia-idUSKCN0V5080
The protester [Jason] Patrick likened Finicum’s death to the killing of Tamir Rice, an unarmed 12-year-old African American boy fatally shot by police outside a Cleveland recreation center in 2014. The officers were not charged.

"The government can kill who they want for whatever reason they want with impunity," Patrick said.

I guess with Corey Haim's passing, which rules out a sequel to The Lost Boys, he's got a lot more time on his hands.   What about Speed 3? 
Title: Re: The militia in Oregon.
Post by: El Barto on January 28, 2016, 08:40:09 AM
I only heard the tail end of it this morning, but it appeared to be an audio clip of the driver of the second car saying that the dead guy really did charge the cops. If their own side is admitting to this it'll only be the really lost cause types that stick with the "Executed by Obama" story.
Title: Re: The militia in Oregon.
Post by: Chino on January 28, 2016, 08:43:47 AM
I only heard the tail end of it this morning, but it appeared to be an audio clip of the driver of the second car saying that the dead guy really did charge the cops. If their own side is admitting to this...

I've heard similar reports. If that is true, that'd explain why Bundy is asking them to stand down. I imagine if this guy was truly executed by the police, he'd be telling them to hold their ground and while trying to stir up an internet shit storm. If this is proven to be true, this dead guy's actions (who I believe had a death wish) just spoiled the whole party and lost them all credibility.

In a twisted way, I'm anxiously awaiting for footage.
Title: Re: The militia in Oregon.
Post by: Chino on January 28, 2016, 08:46:56 AM
http://mashable.com/2016/01/27/militia-live-stream-defendyourbase/#icvawreuSuqw

Quote
On Wednesday, the men and women remaining at the compound prepared for war — and invited the whole world to watch them do it.

They launched a series of live streams beginning Wednesday afternoon on the "DefendYourBase" YouTube channel. The live video shows men, wearing camouflage and carrying rifles, fortifying their position and preparing for a shootout with the federal government.
Title: Re: The militia in Oregon.
Post by: jasc15 on January 28, 2016, 12:43:05 PM
Finicum's daughter already used the word "martyr" to describe him.

http://www.ktvz.com/news/lavoy-finicums-tearful-daughter-says-hes-now-a-martyr/37675976
Title: Re: The militia in Oregon.
Post by: Chino on January 28, 2016, 12:50:05 PM
Finicum's daughter already used the word "martyr" to describe him.

http://www.ktvz.com/news/lavoy-finicums-tearful-daughter-says-hes-now-a-martyr/37675976

She also said;

"I want the world to know how my father was murdered today. His hands were in the air and he was shot in the face by the American authorities. Ammon Bundy reported there are six witnesses to this evil."

Title: Re: The militia in Oregon.
Post by: El Barto on January 28, 2016, 01:05:25 PM
And yet her brother refused to say anything of the sort. When asked if his father was a martyr or a troublemaker he deflected the question. He did however suggest that he was pissed off that he valued that cause more than his family.

I will say that while I'm pretty confident this knucklehead chose to go out in a blaze of gunfire, I'm more than a little dismayed that The Man is providing any more detail. Time and time again we see that the more he tries to keep things quiet the more it feeds the conspiracy nuts. Moreover if there isn't video of what went down I'd probably be inclined to side with the whack jobs for the simple reason that The Man is clearly too fucking stupid to be attempting LE actions in the first place.
Title: Re: The militia in Oregon.
Post by: Chino on January 29, 2016, 07:37:46 AM
So the FBI released the aerial footage of the shooting. He initially came out of the vehicle with his hands up and reached down to his waste several times. Looked like he wanted to shoot the officer in front of him and then was caught off guard by the cop hiding in the woods.

Looked completely justified to me.
Title: Re: The militia in Oregon.
Post by: El Barto on January 29, 2016, 09:27:47 AM
Well, he didn't charge at them, as initially reported, but he wasn't exactly behaving like somebody wanting to surrender, either. It looks like he was reaching inside his jacket after being surprised by the cop behind him. However, in this case you want video that actually clears them, and this in no way qualifies. It's ambiguous enough to leave plenty of room for the whackjobs.
Title: Re: The militia in Oregon.
Post by: jasc15 on February 02, 2016, 02:15:58 PM
Are these clowns of the "sovereign citizen" ideology?  It seems that some of their ideas fit, but their words don't sound as totally disjointed as other sovereign citizens'.