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General => General Discussion => Topic started by: Skeever on April 07, 2015, 06:27:55 PM

Title: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Skeever on April 07, 2015, 06:27:55 PM
At the risk of sounding like a dumbass for bringing this up with a bunch of relative strangers, I've been thinking about this issue a lot lately and I'm looking for some third opinions.

I'm a guy in my late 20s, and I'm currently a renter. Ever since getting married a year ago, the idea of owning a home has continued to present itself. I've spent a lot of time looking a houses over the last year, and ultimately I've been disappointed by what I've seen, as well as a little bit intimidated by the idea of taking on a mortgage and 30 year loan. It's become obvious that I don't want to live in the houses and/or areas I can afford comfortably, so the next logical step is to look in areas where I'd be paying more.

My parents think I should buy a house, but they are also the type of people who worked 60 hour weeks their entire lives to pay a mortgage. Personally, I'm much happier knowing that I can pay for housing, pay bills, invest, and then still have a good amount of money to enjoy travel, concerts, hobbies, etc., maybe even go back to school. This idea seems completely foreign to the older generation, or at least blue collar folks like my parents. They seem to not understand why anyone wouldn't want to buy a house as soon as possible.

Does anyone care to share any insight on the topic? I'd like to start a family soon, but despite familial pressure I'm just not sure I see the value in purchasing a home. Seems like a ton of stress over nothing. If I have kids, wouldn't it be better and cheaper to just rent a larger apartment in area I wouldn't be able to afford to buy in? And, re: the home is an investment, even from that angle a house seems hard to justify, since my wife and I are priced out of the better areas anyway, why not just rent in them and put what I'm not paying taxes into an IRA or something?
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: eric42434224 on April 07, 2015, 06:39:35 PM
Each areas housing market is different.  Some it is better to rent, some better to buy.  Some people have certain lifestyles that work better in one over the other.  But if you plan to stay in one area, owning is usually the smarter financial decision in the long run.

Some things to consider:
-Your fixed rate 30 year mortgage will have your payment stay the same over the next 30 years.  Your rent will increase constantly.
-We are in a historically low interest rate environment, meaning it is cheap to borrow money.
-You own the equity in your home.  You are leveraging the banks money to gain equity in the property.  The landlord owns the equity in the rental, and you are paying for it.
-You have the ability for capital improvements
-You can use the equity to use to move to a bigger and better home in the future.
-You can still contribute $ to retirement and travel as most mortgages are cheaper than rent.

Dont buy into the hype about people slaving countless hours to pay a mortgage.  You still have to work those hours to pay rent too.

My advice is to price out what you can get for a specific amount for a rental, and what you can get for that same amount with Mortgage/taxes/insurance.

I was renting a house for $2400 a month.  4 bedroom, 2.5 bath, pool.  I bought the SAME EXACT MODEL house, but on a LAKE in the same neighborhood....my morgtage/taxes/insurance/HOA is $1800.  Not only is it cheaper, but I own the equity.  To be fair, I did put 20% down, but it still would be cheaper (Maybe $2050 vs $2400) apples to apples.

Each area in the country is different, but do not discount the values of home ownership.

Its like leasing or buying a car.  You can get a nicer car if you lease as the payments are lower.   But you will always have a lease payment.
If you buy, you car is not as nice, but after 5 years your car payment goes away.  It is cheaper in the long run to buy a house or car, than to rent/lease, no question (at least in most areas).
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Skeever on April 07, 2015, 06:51:45 PM
Each areas housing market is different.  Some it is better to rent, some better to buy.  Some people have certain lifestyles that work better in one over the other.  But if you plan to stay in one area, owning is usually the smarter financial decision in the long run.

Some things to consider:
-Your fixed rate 30 year mortgage will have your payment stay the same over the next 30 years.  Your rent will increase constantly.
-We are in a historically low interest rate environment, meaning it is cheap to borrow money.
-You own the equity in your home.  You are leveraging the banks money to gain equity in the property.  The landlord owns the equity in the rental, and you are paying for it.
-You have the ability for capital improvements
-You can use the equity to use to move to a bigger and better home in the future.
-You can still contribute $ to retirement and travel as most mortgages are cheaper than rent.

Dont buy into the hype about people slaving countless hours to pay a mortgage.  You still have to work those hours to pay rent too.

My advice is to price out what you can get for a specific amount for a rental, and what you can get for that same amount with Mortgage/taxes/insurance.

I was renting a house for $2400 a month.  4 bedroom, 2.5 bath, pool.  I bought the SAME EXACT MODEL house, but on a LAKE in the same neighborhood....my morgtage/taxes/insurance/HOA is $1800.  Not only is it cheaper, but I own the equity.

Each area in the country is different, but do not discount the values of homeownership.

Thanks for the comments. What you're noting has not been my experience at all, though. Right now I pay $900 in rent, and even houses priced as modestly as 130k seem to have me paying at least $1300 per month in mortgage/taxes/insurance/HOA. Not to mention that houses that affordable have not been easy to come by in my area, and get quickly snatched up, and often need a lot of work (something I know nothing about).
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: eric42434224 on April 07, 2015, 06:55:13 PM
First, where do you live?

Second, your numbers seem a bit off to me.
I ran a mortgage calculator on 130k with taxes and insurance, and 1300 is WAAAAAAY too high
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: eric42434224 on April 07, 2015, 06:58:17 PM
$130k home price
5% down ($6500)
Interest rate 4.5%
30 year fixed loan
Property taxes 1.2%
Home owners Insurance $800 yr
Including PMI
HOA $50 mnth

Monthly payment $951

Obviously some variables will change, but damn, $1300 is way off.
Also, you dont need to buy a house...you can buy a condo.  You know that if you are paying $900 to rent your apartment, it is costing LESS to own it, or the owner wouldnt make any cabbage doing so.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Skeever on April 07, 2015, 07:01:58 PM
First, where do you live?

Second, your numbers seem a bit off to me.
I ran a mortgage calculator on 130k with taxes and insurance, and 1300 is WAAAAAAY too high
I live in the Philly suburbs. A typical house costing 130k here will have anywhere between $4-7k annually in taxes. I think tax rate is something like 3-4% usually in Camden County, where I work. So even if that mortgages out to $600 a month or so, you're paying another 500 in taxes, then PMI, insurance, etc.

The sticking point for me has been that the 130k house is either a decent house in a below average area or a something that needs waaaaay too much TLC in a better area (and in that case flippers buy way before you can get your FHA bid in anyway).
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: eric42434224 on April 07, 2015, 07:02:47 PM
what zip code or town?
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Skeever on April 07, 2015, 07:04:47 PM
what zip code or town?

We'd been looking at a number of towns, but this is the county that I work in: https://www.state.nj.us/treasury/taxation/pdf/lpt/gtr14cam.pdf
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: eric42434224 on April 07, 2015, 07:05:08 PM
Skeever, I think you are misinformed about property tax rates.  The highest tax rate in Pensylvania is like 1.25% (Chester County)
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: eric42434224 on April 07, 2015, 07:07:52 PM
what zip code or town?

We'd been looking at a number of towns, but this is the county that I work in: https://www.state.nj.us/treasury/taxation/pdf/lpt/gtr14cam.pdf

Camnden is one of the highest in the country, but the property taxes there will be about 2.5% of fair market value of the house.
2.5% is about double the average.

I think what you showed me was state income tax
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: eric42434224 on April 07, 2015, 07:14:57 PM
First, where do you live?

Second, your numbers seem a bit off to me.
I ran a mortgage calculator on 130k with taxes and insurance, and 1300 is WAAAAAAY too high
I live in the Philly suburbs. A typical house costing 130k here will have anywhere between $4-7k annually in taxes. I think tax rate is something like 3-4% usually in Camden County, where I work. So even if that mortgages out to $600 a month or so, you're paying another 500 in taxes, then PMI, insurance, etc.

The sticking point for me has been that the 130k house is either a decent house in a below average area or a something that needs waaaaay too much TLC in a better area (and in that case flippers buy way before you can get your FHA bid in anyway).

Some areas arent great for home ownership.  Yours personal situation and area might be one.
But at least run the correct numbers before you make a decision.  Your info on taxes was double what it should be.  And dont discount that your mortgage stays the same while rent will increase, and you build equity.  It may be a scarafice for the first few years in what you can afford, but in the long term, home ownership has huge value.

Good luck on your decision!
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: El Barto on April 07, 2015, 07:17:24 PM

Also, you dont need to buy a house...you can buy a condo.  You know that if you are paying $900 to rent your apartment, it is costing LESS to own it, or the owner wouldnt make any cabbage doing so.
Well, not necessarily. My landlady bought this condo back when it was new and moved out once it was paid for.  Aside from taxes and insurance it's all cabbage to her. A quick search tells me I couldn't rent a smaller and generally crappy apartment in this zip for less than $50 more than I'm paying her. Add to that, I've had two rent increases in 5 years, the latest being a whopping $15. If something breaks (that I don't want to fix myself) it's done. She has her HVAC guy and chimney sweep come out regularly, and other than that I almost never hear from her.

Now, that said, I'm pretty interested in what you have to say, so keep it up.

As for what I might suggest to Skeever, from my perspective I only want to buy a house if it's where I want to retire. It's the mortgage free ownership at the end of the rainbow that's the selling point for me. Yet, I can't think of any place in Dallas that I'd want to run out the clock (assuming I even outlive a mortgage). Neighborhoods can change pretty quickly, as well. The house my mom bought for us when I was about 15 was in a nice neighborhood and now it's just terrible, in a terrible subburb that I can't even stand driving into.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: TempusVox on April 07, 2015, 07:20:05 PM
Never give money to someone else so that they can build equity in their own property. If you can build your own equity. And look around for the best deal you can. Maybe that means moving over a zip code or two.

I nearly fell out of my chair even with 1300 monthly mortgage payment. We pay 14,600 each month.  :lol
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Skeever on April 07, 2015, 07:24:10 PM
I may be a bit confused about the rate (not a numbers guy), but I'm certainly not confused about the monthly cost since we've had to think about that a lot in the last few months. The typical house we see for 130-150K here has anywhere from 4k-6k in taxes per year. Here's what I just ran on Zillow (note the small print):

(https://i.imgur.com/n3djIDE.png)

Keep in mind these areas aren't really that great, have schools that are "approaching standard", etc. Also keep in mind this isn't even considering the PMI we'd have to pay with FHA.

Thanks for your patience, though. Your response is basically what we're getting everywhere, i.e., people can't believe buying is so expensive.

As for what I might suggest to Skeever, from my perspective I only want to buy a house if it's where I want to retire. It's the mortgage free ownership at the end of the rainbow that's the selling point for me. Yet, I can't think of any place in Dallas that I'd want to run out the clock (assuming I even outlive a mortgage). Neighborhoods can change pretty quickly, as well. The house my mom bought for us when I was about 15 was in a nice neighborhood and now it's just terrible, in a terrible subburb that I can't even stand driving into.

Yeah, that's an issue for me. Where I live and work (Camden county, NJ, ten miles outside of THE Camden), it seems like all the typical middle class neighborhoods are pretty stagnant, right on the cusp between areas that are doing OK and neighborhoods that are the first to disappear as the working middle class go to hell.

Never give money to someone else so that they can build equity in their own property. If you can build your own equity. And look around for the best deal you can. Maybe that means moving over a zip code or two.

I nearly fell out of my chair even with 1300 monthly mortgage payment. We pay 14,600 each month.  :lol
Well don't I feel even more shitty now  ???
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: eric42434224 on April 07, 2015, 07:29:17 PM

Also, you dont need to buy a house...you can buy a condo.  You know that if you are paying $900 to rent your apartment, it is costing LESS to own it, or the owner wouldnt make any cabbage doing so.
Well, not necessarily. My landlady bought this condo back when it was new and moved out once it was paid for.  Aside from taxes and insurance it's all cabbage to her. A quick search tells me I couldn't rent a smaller and generally crappy apartment in this zip for less than $50 more than I'm paying her. Add to that, I've had two rent increases in 5 years, the latest being a whopping $15. If something breaks (that I don't want to fix myself) it's done. She has her HVAC guy and chimney sweep come out regularly, and other than that I almost never hear from her.

Now, that said, I'm pretty interested in what you have to say, so keep it up.

As for what I might suggest to Skeever, from my perspective I only want to buy a house if it's where I want to retire. It's the mortgage free ownership at the end of the rainbow that's the selling point for me. Yet, I can't think of any place in Dallas that I'd want to run out the clock (assuming I even outlive a mortgage). Neighborhoods can change pretty quickly, as well. The house my mom bought for us when I was about 15 was in a nice neighborhood and now it's just terrible, in a terrible subburb that I can't even stand driving into.

I think your rental experience is the exception rather than the rule.  Almost every rental I have lived in had yearly increases.

And I think your opinion on buying a house to retire in is misguided.  Most people dont do that.  Your LOAN is 30 years, and it is not a requirement to stay there.  If you want to move, you can move, and use equity to leverage the next home.
And if you always rent, the only way you can buy your retirement home mortgage free is to pay cash when you are ready to retire.
Most people that rent cant put away enough money for retirement funds AND a cash home purchase.

Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: eric42434224 on April 07, 2015, 07:31:23 PM
I may be a bit confused about the rate (not a numbers guy), but I'm certainly not confused about the monthly cost since we've had to think about that a lot in the last few months. The typical house we see for 130-150K here has anywhere from 4k-6k in taxes per year. Here's what I just ran on Zillow (note the small print):

(https://i.imgur.com/n3djIDE.png)


That shows nothing about taxes, PMI, insurance, or HOA.
That only shows Principal and Interest on the loan

The taxes in that county are 2.5% of the fair market value of the house.  That is fact and is on the NJ website.  That is VERY high, double the average. 
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Skeever on April 07, 2015, 07:32:25 PM
Note the small print (estimated taxes and insurance).
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: TempusVox on April 07, 2015, 07:34:55 PM

Well don't I feel even more shitty now  ???

Why would you? It's all relative to your experience. I've lived in 130,000 homes and loved them. I wasn't born with a silver spoon in my mouth. You might hate my houses. My mortgage payment doesn't make anyone elses house any less a home. Besides, try cutting my grass sometime. It's a pain in the ass.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: eric42434224 on April 07, 2015, 07:35:36 PM
Note the small print (estimated taxes and insurance).

That means NOTHING.  It is estimated.  Before you make a decision, use real numbers.  Use a more detailed calculator that shows more accurate numbers like property tax rates.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: eric42434224 on April 07, 2015, 07:41:37 PM
https://www.zillow.com/mortgage-calculator/ (https://www.zillow.com/mortgage-calculator/)


Use this calculator and click "advanced" below it.
Use 2.5% for property taxes.
That will actually be higher than you will pay as you will not be taxed on the 130., depending on homestead expemptions etc.
But it will show you worst case scenario for taxes.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: lordxizor on April 07, 2015, 07:45:01 PM
One thing you have to keep in mind is maintenance on a home you own. If you rent, you just call the landlord to fix the furnace or fridge. If you own the home, you have to pay to fix it. The general rule is to assume 2+% of the value of the home per year in maintenance.

In general, I think home ownership is overrated. There are benefits to owning your own home, but there are benefits to renting as well. The flexibility to move when you want to at the end of your lease instead of having to sell a home may be worth something to you. Increasing home values are not guaranteed and historically only barely outpace inflation.

All that said, I am moving into a house we're buying in a few weeks because we want some stability for our family and interest rates are ridiculously low right now. We are going to be paying 3.375%. Plus we want to be able to make the house our own which is difficult to do in a rental.

Don't let anyone tell you that you should buy a house if you don't feel strongly that you want to. There's nothing wrong with renting. You are not "throwing money away" as people like to say. You are paying money for a roof over your head. That getting value for your money. When you buy you throw away absurd amounts of money to the interest, so it's not like you're getting something beneficial out of everything you're paying.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: eric42434224 on April 07, 2015, 07:48:49 PM
From the Zillow calculator:


130k home price
4% down payment $5200
Interest rate 4.3%
30 year fixed

P & I  618 / mnth
Taxes $271 / mnth
Home owners insurance $67 / mth
PMI $102 a month (this goes away after you have 20% equity)

$1057 monthly payment all in.


Not saying home ownership is for you, but at least make sure your arguments against it are sound.
Dont use the "working x hours to pay a mortgage", as you have to work x hours to pay rent too.
Dont use incorrect tax info either.

My advice is to take the emotion out of it and run the CORRECT numbers, and consider the pros and cons, and make an informed and logical decision for you and your family.
Good luck man.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: TempusVox on April 07, 2015, 07:51:35 PM
The biggest factor you should use is do you plan on staying put for more than the next 4 or 5 years? If you plan on moving from the area, then renting is probably the way to go. But if your roots are semi permanent my advice would be to buy a home your family could grow with somewhat. It doesn't need to be your forever home, but it should be something that allows you room if you plan on having kids soon.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: eric42434224 on April 07, 2015, 07:51:54 PM
One thing you have to keep in mind is maintenance on a home you own. If you rent, you just call the landlord to fix the furnace or fridge. If you own the home, you have to pay to fix it. The general rule is to assume 2+% of the value of the home per year in maintenance.

In general, I think home ownership is overrated. There are benefits to owning your own home, but there are benefits to renting as well. The flexibility to move when you want to at the end of your lease instead of having to sell a home may be worth something to you. Increasing home values are not guaranteed and historically only barely outpace inflation.

All that said, I am moving into a house we're buying in a few weeks because we want some stability for our family and interest rates are ridiculously low right now. We are going to be paying 3.375%. Plus we want to be able to make the house our own which is difficult to do in a rental.

Don't let anyone tell you that you should buy a house if you don't feel strongly that you want to. There's nothing wrong with renting. You are not "throwing money away" as people like to say. You are paying money for a roof over your head. That getting value for your money. When you buy you throw away absurd amounts of money to the interest, so it's not like you're getting something beneficial out of everything you're paying.

Agreed.  It depends a LOT on the area they live in (that particular housing market), and what lifestyle and future plans they have.  Sometimes renting is the logical choice.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: lordxizor on April 07, 2015, 07:51:54 PM
PMI $102 a month (this goes away after you have 20% equity)
Not sure about conventional mortgages, but if it's an FHA mortgage, the PMI does not go away unless you refinance and have 20% equity. The rules recently changed on that. I'm likely going to be stuck paying $160 a month for the next 30 years since I'm getting such a low interest rate it may never make sense to refinance.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: eric42434224 on April 07, 2015, 07:52:54 PM
PMI $102 a month (this goes away after you have 20% equity)
Not sure about conventional mortgages, but if it's an FHA mortgage, the PMI does not go away unless you refinance and have 20% equity. The rules recently changed on that. I'm likely going to be stuck paying $160 a month for the next 30 years since I'm getting such a low interest rate it may never make sense to refinance.

You cant pay to get get an appraisal and show you have the equity?
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: lordxizor on April 07, 2015, 07:53:26 PM
PMI $102 a month (this goes away after you have 20% equity)
Not sure about conventional mortgages, but if it's an FHA mortgage, the PMI does not go away unless you refinance and have 20% equity. The rules recently changed on that. I'm likely going to be stuck paying $160 a month for the next 30 years since I'm getting such a low interest rate it may never make sense to refinance.

You cant pay to get get an appraisal and show you have the equity?
Nope. You need to refinance to get rid of the PMI.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: eric42434224 on April 07, 2015, 07:55:18 PM
PMI $102 a month (this goes away after you have 20% equity)
Not sure about conventional mortgages, but if it's an FHA mortgage, the PMI does not go away unless you refinance and have 20% equity. The rules recently changed on that. I'm likely going to be stuck paying $160 a month for the next 30 years since I'm getting such a low interest rate it may never make sense to refinance.

You cant pay to get get an appraisal and show you have the equity?
Nope. You need to refinance to get rid of the PMI.

Well that just sucks.  But I guess it is part of the deal to get a loan with such a low down payment.

Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: lordxizor on April 07, 2015, 08:01:48 PM
PMI $102 a month (this goes away after you have 20% equity)
Not sure about conventional mortgages, but if it's an FHA mortgage, the PMI does not go away unless you refinance and have 20% equity. The rules recently changed on that. I'm likely going to be stuck paying $160 a month for the next 30 years since I'm getting such a low interest rate it may never make sense to refinance.

You cant pay to get get an appraisal and show you have the equity?
Nope. You need to refinance to get rid of the PMI.

Well that just sucks.  But I guess it is part of the deal to get a loan with such a low down payment.


It does indeed suck, but to balance it out they dropped the PMI % payment by half.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: eric42434224 on April 07, 2015, 08:10:37 PM
Increasing home values are not guaranteed and historically only barely outpace inflation.



Even if it just outpaced inflation, at least in appreciated.  And the payment is fixed.

A rental has no appreciation, and the problem also is that rent increases just over inflation as well.


------


Home equity goes up and payment stays the same.

Rental equity stays at zero and payment goes up.

Yes there are a myriad of other factors (area, lifestyle, taxes, insurance, future plans).

Just run the numbers, ask yourself the hard questions about your needs and future, and do a comparison.... and your decision will be apparent

Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: eric42434224 on April 07, 2015, 08:10:51 PM
double post
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: eric42434224 on April 07, 2015, 08:11:27 PM
PMI $102 a month (this goes away after you have 20% equity)
Not sure about conventional mortgages, but if it's an FHA mortgage, the PMI does not go away unless you refinance and have 20% equity. The rules recently changed on that. I'm likely going to be stuck paying $160 a month for the next 30 years since I'm getting such a low interest rate it may never make sense to refinance.

You cant pay to get get an appraisal and show you have the equity?
Nope. You need to refinance to get rid of the PMI.

Well that just sucks.  But I guess it is part of the deal to get a loan with such a low down payment.


It does indeed suck, but to balance it out they dropped the PMI % payment by half.

Well then that sucks only half as much as I thought!  Good luck with the house!
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Skeever on April 07, 2015, 08:29:29 PM
I will admit that a lot of my hesitation toward home owning may stem from a lack of education on personal finance issues. I know how to balance my own budget, but I'm certainly not very knowledgeable on what I should pay for things, how I should go about getting loan, what kind of loan I should get, what I should put down, etc. I guess I should get educated. Easier said than done, though. Part of what's so scary to me is the risk of it all. As a first time home buyer who's also on his first real job, I don't want to make a mistake and I don't want to get ripped off, and I definitely don't want to get in over my head. Unfortunately those are all things which realtors don't seem to care much about. Oh well. I guess I'll figure it out. Slow and steady wins the race, I suppose, and it won't kill me to rent while I try and figure out what's best for me. 
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: eric42434224 on April 07, 2015, 08:32:43 PM
Excellent
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Chino on April 08, 2015, 06:10:50 AM
Keep in mind the following post is coming from a 26 year old CT resident who has only been a home owner for 6 months.

If you want to rent anywhere in CT, you are going to have to share a wall, a ceiling, or a floor. Often times it's more than just one of those things. I hate sharing any face of my living space. Even if I bought a condo, that would have still been an issue. I got a fixed 30 year loan at the stupid low interest rate of 3.25% and I only had to put 3.5% down. After taxes, insurance, PMI, and the bank payment, I'm paying $1282 per month before utilities. My house is 1650 square feet, not counting the finished basement. It has three bed rooms and two full baths. That kind of space rented in this area would be at least $1700 per month (most likely more).

The biggest defense for owning a home (imo) is that if I lived in an apartment for five years at $1500 per month, I'd have spent $90k. I'd then need to find a new place to live with whatever is in my bank account. That $90k would completely disappear from my life forever. WIth the house, even if my property value goes down, I still have an asset I can sell. I have something worth real money. If the housing market picks up, I could actually make money off of the house.

There are some shitty things about owning a house though. Having to maintain the property can be a pain in the ass. I envy my friends in condo complexes that never have to touch a shovel during the winter months. Also, if a major appliance goes, it's on you to replace it. Most apartment complexes take care of that kind of thing (I think).

All I know is, I wouldn't want to have it any other way. It's definitely a little more expensive to own a home vs renting somewhere, but I think the positives outweight the negatives. 
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: cramx3 on April 08, 2015, 06:14:32 AM
I purchased my house almost two years ago with my then fiance.  I was also scared about the commitment of a mortgage,  but I've never been happier with my living arrangements.  If you can afford rent and get a mortgage at around the same monthly rate then it's kind of a no brainer assuming you think you can live there for at least a few years.  When my fiance and I broke up, I was put into some serious crossroads about the house.  My x wanted to sell it, but I loved living there but was just concerned about paying the mortgage myself.  I ended up refinancing (to get my x off the mortgage and property deed) and its the best decision I could have made.  Now every month I gain more (albeit it very slightly) more equity into my home which I can use in the future to either take out loans or purchase a better house down the road.

Also, the biggest benefit is having something that is your own.  No one can stop me from doing what I want to my house or while I am in my house.  I can blast music, make a mess, have a party, redecorate, whatever.

You are married so this doesnt apply, but being a single 30 year old who owns a house has lead my to getting a lot more ladies.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Chino on April 08, 2015, 06:17:52 AM
I will admit that a lot of my hesitation toward home owning may stem from a lack of education on personal finance issues. I know how to balance my own budget, but I'm certainly not very knowledgeable on what I should pay for things, how I should go about getting loan, what kind of loan I should get, what I should put down, etc. I guess I should get educated. Easier said than done, though. Part of what's so scary to me is the risk of it all. As a first time home buyer who's also on his first real job, I don't want to make a mistake and I don't want to get ripped off, and I definitely don't want to get in over my head. Unfortunately those are all things which realtors don't seem to care much about. Oh well.

I knew nothing going in. I called a mortgage broker on a whim who was very helpful. I didn't end up using her because the bank got me a .5% less interest rate, but she still helped get the ball rolling. I got a hold of a realtor we knew and she basically took care of everything (any realtor would. They want that comish). All the stuff I was afraid of not knowing how to do she just ended up doing/guiding me on. Sure I had to call banks and lawyers and stuff, but she helped me through the entire process and made it super easy.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: cramx3 on April 08, 2015, 06:25:45 AM
My mother is a real estate agent and while she is not the most knowledgeable in terms of mortgages and numbers, she knew people who were and being that they were all people who worked with my mom, I knew they would give me trustworthy information.  And definitely shop around for mortgages cause every broker has different tricks up their sleeve and I've had some who flat out told me they couldnt get me a mortgage while others could.  I went in knowing nothing and learned a lot in the process.  I don't think anything is that complicated that one can't learn and figure things out as they go. 
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Stadler on April 08, 2015, 07:32:02 AM
I will admit that a lot of my hesitation toward home owning may stem from a lack of education on personal finance issues. I know how to balance my own budget, but I'm certainly not very knowledgeable on what I should pay for things, how I should go about getting loan, what kind of loan I should get, what I should put down, etc. I guess I should get educated. Easier said than done, though. Part of what's so scary to me is the risk of it all. As a first time home buyer who's also on his first real job, I don't want to make a mistake and I don't want to get ripped off, and I definitely don't want to get in over my head. Unfortunately those are all things which realtors don't seem to care much about. Oh well. I guess I'll figure it out. Slow and steady wins the race, I suppose, and it won't kill me to rent while I try and figure out what's best for me.

Honestly, and I'll take the flack from this, but you sound like you have your mind made up and are finding reasons to justify it.  I have owned five houses in my life - including one in the Philly area, where you are talking about - and I don't share one of your experiences.  Realtors are like any other profession:  there are good ones and there are shysters.  just so happens that near cities (like Philly) there are are more shysters per square mile than in a small town.   

It's already been said, but don't use "small print estimates".  Get REAL numbers.    Also, no one here has factored in closing costs (which could be bad if they come out of your pocket, but which many sellers will pay or contribute to) but also the tax benefit (which is good come tax time; you get to write off all the interest you paid on your investment). 

Also, while I can't argue with the "legwork" aspect of homeownership, if you renters think you are not paying for the snow removal service or the appliances/maintenance, you're not paying attention.   Rental properties are INVESTMENT properties.  The landlords want to make money.  And they factor in the cost of appliance replacement and maintenance and put it in your rent.   Sure, in a condo or apartment complex, it gets spread out among all the properties, but it is likely in a situation like that, it is spread out if you own as well (through common fees or homeowner association fees).   The only difference is in cash flow, but even then, you tend to lose, because you are paying for a replacement appliance that, if you move out before it breaks, you don't even get to use!   

There is always the exception to the rule, and I understand that (so no need to point it out) but as a general proposition, there is no financial way that - apples to apples - renting beats ownership of residential real property.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: King Postwhore on April 08, 2015, 07:34:12 AM
I was tired myself of paying rent.  It was like giving money away.  I wanted my own place to crank my music and movies and not worry about pissing off the neighbors.  At least now the money I'm paying for my house is going to an investment.  There is a sort of pride to owning our house.  I have the escrow rolled into our mortgage and we pay $1510.00 a month.  Without the escrow it's in the low $1100.00.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: cramx3 on April 08, 2015, 07:41:24 AM
The only way renting is better is if you dont plan on staying for a decent amount of time.  The closing costs of purchasing and selling will eat up profits on your investment if you dont stay long enough to earn enough equity or for the property to go up in value.  I think for most people its the commitment to staying in one place that leads to people renting instead of owning. 
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: bout to crash on April 08, 2015, 09:27:31 AM
Agreed with the above post and a lot of the other stuff here. I just bought a condo about a month ago so I'm by no means an expert, but here in Denver it just made sooo much more sense. The market is insane and rents are skyrocketing. I was paying $1045 for a one-bedroom/parking (only because I talked them into a year lease vs. a 6-month last summer), and the guy who moved into my old place is now paying $1140 just for rent. My mortgage payment and HOA are going to be just about the same as what I was paying before, except the new place is almost twice as big. It's not in the hip neighborhood I was in before, but it's only about six miles away. I'm not a hugely committal person so it was a big decision, but really, if I decide I hate this place and need to move in a couple years, I can rent it out and then maybe buy a place in my old hood or whatever. There are lots of options, but right now I don't want to go anywhere... and I never fucking want to move again because moving sucks  :lol

Like Chino said, I did not know a lot about this process going in but my realtor pretty much did everything and walked me through it. I would also recommend talking to a lender to see what the numbers might be like- you're not committing to anything, but the one I worked with was super helpful and made it seem wayyy less scary for me. Property taxes in CO are way lower than in NJ, but still worth looking into. Like eric said, rents are pretty much just going to keep going up while a fixed rate mortgage stays the same. There were other things I wanted to post/agree with but I'm in a rush to get to work so I'll have to come back to this later. Oh, and I have a brother in South Jersey who is very knowledgeable and flips houses if you need a connection  ;)
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Chino on April 08, 2015, 09:37:49 AM
Property taxes in CO are way lower in NJ, but still worth looking into.

Not including the taxes on my car, I pay $4800 per year in property taxes. My city is the third highest in the state.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: bout to crash on April 08, 2015, 10:28:11 AM
Holy crap! Granted my place is a lot smaller than yours, but I think my taxes are like $600?
(PS- I meant to say "way lower than in NJ" in case that wasn't clear- I will fix it)

I know my mom (in North Jersey) pays a ton. A cousin in that area actually had to sell her beautiful inherited house because the property taxes were so high (I think she said over $30,000 a year)  :|
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: King Postwhore on April 08, 2015, 10:36:53 AM
I own a 3 bedroom, one bathroom ranch style house and my taxes are $4000.00.  I have friends with huge houses that pay $11,000 in property taxes.  I don't know how they do it.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: cramx3 on April 08, 2015, 10:44:08 AM
I have a ~1000 sqaure foot two bedroom (technicaly its 3 bedroom but the 3rd would never be used as a bedroom, its an office for me) 1.5 bath house in NJ and my taxes... $6500 so yea its expensive in NJ.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: gmillerdrake on April 08, 2015, 12:05:03 PM
3125 s.f. (2) Story Home, $3800 per year in taxes. If you were to put my house in any of the surrounding counties it'd certainly double the taxes.

There is a lot of good advice about home ownership in this thread. The key points for me is that I'm creating equity for myself instead of a landlord. It's "mine". What we did differently with our recent build of a home and that loan as opposed to when we bought our first home is that we actually educated ourselves on what the heck we were doing   :lol  Meaning, how much $$ to put down, when to lock in rates....should we pay our PMI off in one lump sum (which we did)....just did a lot more research and at least understood the verbatim that industry uses. What ended up being a great thing was that I had (3) different entities vying for our loan. Up until the day I locked in none of them knew who was going to get the business. It was literally a phone call from one guy who offered me a rate...phoned the other two and said 'can you beat it'. I ended up ticking two people off but in the end I didn't really care, I was all about saving as much $$ as possible.


Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Chino on April 08, 2015, 12:25:10 PM
That final call was so akward for me. The really nice mortgage broker that had helped me for over a month couldn't do any better than 3.75%. I told her what the bank was offering (3.25%) me and she said she couldn't even go as low as 3.5% I felt really bad telling her I was going elsewhere. I'm sure that happens literally every day in that profession, but still.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: gmillerdrake on April 08, 2015, 12:55:34 PM
That final call was so akward for me. The really nice mortgage broker that had helped me for over a month couldn't do any better than 3.75%. I told her what the bank was offering (3.25%) me and she said she couldn't even go as low as 3.5% I felt really bad telling her I was going elsewhere. I'm sure that happens literally every day in that profession, but still.

Dude....that's near identical to what I had to do. But it was vice versa. The bank, where this man had walked my wife and I through every step over several months....taught us all the lingo and what all that industry jargin' "really" meant....he couldn't come down the half percent I was gaining with a Mortgage Broker. That call to him was brutal because I liked him a lot. But in the end the amount of money I was saving over the course of the loan I couldn't ignore and be irresponsible like that.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: cramx3 on April 08, 2015, 12:58:33 PM
Sucks but thats business and nothing personal. Got to do whats best for you and even 0.01% differences can make a large difference over the course of a 30 year loan.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Skeever on April 08, 2015, 04:54:04 PM
I have a ~1000 sqaure foot two bedroom (technicaly its 3 bedroom but the 3rd would never be used as a bedroom, its an office for me) 1.5 bath house in NJ and my taxes... $6500 so yea its expensive in NJ.
Yeah, no offense to those who've been really helpful in this thread, but it's obviously some people here aren't really believing how ridiculous NJ taxes can be. In my ballpark, seeing a house 130-150k where you'll need 4-6k annually in taxes is not uncommon at all. People have accused me of making up numbers because I've posted some quick examples that weren't quite right, but I've had real numbers run from the bank several times over the last year, and taxes are always very high. Most of the time the tax is almost doubling the mortgage. In fact, I've never seen a property in NJ where taxes came out to less than 3k annually (those properties are out in the sticks).

My experience thus far has been pretty mixed. Ideally, of course home ownership is better when everything works out. You buy a house, you pay it off, and when it's time to sell it at worst you break even. This on paper is the reason I've been looking at houses on and off for a year or more now. The reality I'm finding is, the houses a young couple can afford aren't in areas I'd want to live, and certainly not areas where I see neighborhoods improving. The other people my age that I know who are buying have gotten in over their heads.

That's why I'm so interesting in reading as many opinions as possible. I know on paper that this should work. What I'm finding is, it does not seem to be working for me at all. I've just been frustrated. I can't find a reasonable place to live and it sucks.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: eric42434224 on April 08, 2015, 05:10:56 PM


The facts are that the property taxes in Camden county NJ is about 2.5% of the property value.  If the county appraises the home value at 130k, then the property taxes will be 2.5% of that.  That will be $3250.  It really is that simple.
That is about double the national average...yes very high...but nowhere near doubling the mortgage P&I.

Instead of anecdotal evidence, call the county and get real numbers to base your decision on..
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Skeever on April 08, 2015, 05:21:50 PM


The facts are that the property taxes in Camden county NJ is about 2.5% of the property value.  If the county appraises the home value at 130k, then the property taxes will be 2.5% of that.  That will be $3250.  It really is that simple.
That is about double the national average...yes very high...but nowhere near doubling the mortgage P&I.

Instead of anecdotal evidence, call the county and get real numbers to base your decision on..

Nobody I know in Camden County NJ plays that little in taxes. You're just going to have to give me this one, because I'm the one who's been here looking at places regularly and having numbers run.

Take a look Eric: https://www.state.nj.us/dca/divisions/dlgs/resources/property_tax.html
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: eric42434224 on April 08, 2015, 05:25:30 PM
https://www.tax-rates.org/new_jersey/camden_county_property_tax (https://www.tax-rates.org/new_jersey/camden_county_property_tax)



Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Skeever on April 08, 2015, 05:30:32 PM
https://www.tax-rates.org/new_jersey/camden_county_property_tax (https://www.tax-rates.org/new_jersey/camden_county_property_tax)

Mine which is actually from the state breaks it down by hood. Not sure what's pulling the average down but I likely haven't looked into those areas due to distance. 10 miles in Camden County is a congested and hellish 10 miles.

Maybe I just need to find a new job in an area where it's cheaper to live ::shrugs::
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: eric42434224 on April 08, 2015, 05:32:58 PM
Agreed.  Those rates suck.  You should be getting daily handy's for those rates.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Skeever on April 08, 2015, 05:45:08 PM
Yeah I should have renamed this thread something like "The Benefits of Home Ownership (Is Living in New Jersey Ever Worth It?)"
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: eric42434224 on April 08, 2015, 05:50:19 PM
Yeah I should have renamed this thread something like "The Benefits of Home Ownership (Is Living in New Jersey Ever Worth It?)"

As I said, it can depend on the area and that particular market.  Your area, coupled with your needs and resources, might not be the best scenario for home ownership.
Just do your due diligence and make the decision...and re-evaluate periodically.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: bout to crash on April 08, 2015, 08:05:45 PM
Yeah I should have renamed this thread something like "The Benefits of Home Ownership (Is Living in New Jersey Ever Worth It?)"

 :lol... I had to ask myself that question when I was done getting my MSW here in CO and had the option to come back to NJ (where most of my family/friends are). I decided that no, it was not worth it for me. I still love Jersey in many ways and I miss things/people there, but I am SO glad I moved to a different part of the country. Denver is more laid back and friendly, cheaper, weather is better, etc. etc. Really the only things I miss are the city, the beach, the pizza and the bagels.

Sort of off-topic from the OP, but have you ever thought about leaving the area? What's keeping you there? I ask because a lot of my friends back in NJ do a lot of complaining about how much this-and-that sucks, but they would never consider moving. It's interesting.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Calvin6s on April 08, 2015, 08:45:04 PM
1.  Rent control.  If you pay $1200/month now, you will more or less pay $1200/month 25 years from now.  The only thing that changes that is the TI in PITI (Principal Interest Taxes Insurance).
2.  I own a home, but rent my office/warehouse space.  I hate renting because every improvement decision begins with "well, how long am I actually going to stay here?  Will they let me?  It isn't as if I get an increased sale value for this improvement"

There are tons of benefits, but those might be the top two I can think of off the top of my head.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Calvin6s on April 08, 2015, 08:50:14 PM
There really is only one positive with renting.  Mobility.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Podaar on April 09, 2015, 03:45:06 AM
Yes, home ownership has always been of financial benefit for me as well. I do remember wondering how I was going to ever make those payments for all those years!  :omg:

The silly thing will be paid off in just a few years now! Time passes, and while it did, my payments stayed steady while my income grew.

One aspect that hasn't been discussed, my favorite benefit from home ownership is fixing the fucker up. I just love home improvement...the planning, execution and the sense of accomplishment.

The idea.
(https://scontent-sjc.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xaf1/v/t1.0-9/292441_4362929760513_1441587684_n.jpg?oh=42aee3276f96377a6627d4b0b08a7c5e&oe=559F03D4)
The plan
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xfa1/v/t1.0-9/418384_4362626472931_202842322_n.jpg?oh=ee6f684f6518c93d970af5904aaeb3ef&oe=55A004DA&__gda__=1437246482_d1c3ea274ddd898f3614223dd78939c6)
The execution
(https://scontent-sjc.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xaf1/v/t1.0-9/303678_4446873059043_857168705_n.jpg?oh=e0dd6c79ed8ac12ea98215efbedf6855&oe=55E133B6)
(https://scontent-sjc.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xaf1/v/t1.0-9/405790_4482500829715_518953624_n.jpg?oh=cb2335a843a4acf587ada275d1406b23&oe=55A56A3E)
(https://scontent-sjc.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xfa1/v/t1.0-9/308065_4680621182600_94912696_n.jpg?oh=f498d5987b94bf4c97cc70b3ad53a6db&oe=55AB9918)
The reality
(https://scontent-sjc.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-frc3/v/t1.0-9/554169_4837108774692_368586340_n.jpg?oh=2d0625411efaa9fa35221085e4a37970&oe=55E628F8)
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Skeever on April 09, 2015, 05:27:11 AM
Sort of off-topic from the OP, but have you ever thought about leaving the area? What's keeping you there? I ask because a lot of my friends back in NJ do a lot of complaining about how much this-and-that sucks, but they would never consider moving. It's interesting.

Family is a big part. One of us has a very sick parent, so we're going through all of that chaos and couldn't move now. But even if that weren't the case, I'd have to think long and hard about moving. I do like the cultural aspect of living in Jersey (if you can't find something to do in Philly, NYC is only a train ride away).
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Chino on April 09, 2015, 05:56:56 AM
That's one of the huge perks of living in CT. There are six states I can get to in about two hours.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: cramx3 on April 09, 2015, 06:00:00 AM
Really the only things I miss are the city, the beach, the pizza and the bagels.

Yes! All good reasons to love NJ.  For me, my family and friends are here so that plays a large role in me sticking around in NJ and yea the taxes are insane, but I live 50 minutes from NYC and 90 minutes from Philly, the beach is a mile away, any store is within 10 miles.  I feel like I am in a great spot for what I like so to me, the taxes are something I will pay to be where I want to be. 

The facts are that the property taxes in Camden county NJ is about 2.5% of the property value.

I am in Monmouth county and doing the math of my taxes 6500 over the cost of my house 250k then thats 2.6% for me.

And to add another benefit of homeownership, just to give an idea of property value.  I bought my house at 250 and thats also what the bank valued the house at as well, but I refinanced last fall and the new value was given at 265k and I have not even done any improvements to the home besides cosmetic improvements.  The value went up due to people buying similar properties in the area at higher prices therefore raising my value without me having to do a whole lot which then let me borrow more money from the bank.  All great things for a home owner!
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: King Postwhore on April 09, 2015, 06:15:05 AM
There really is only one positive with renting.  Mobility.

What's so great about that?  I hated every damn move!
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Chino on April 09, 2015, 06:41:36 AM
There really is only one positive with renting.  Mobility.

What's so great about that?  I hated every damn move!

 :lol I was going to say... moving your stuff is like a journey into the darkest part of your soul. I absolutely hate it. Every single bit of it.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Stadler on April 09, 2015, 06:50:17 AM
There really is only one positive with renting.  Mobility.

What's so great about that?  I hated every damn move!

And even that is an over-rated benefit, because most leases require you to pay out the remainder of the lease (or lose the security deposit), whereas with a house, as Jackie astutely pointed out, you can always rent it out and make money that way.  I work for a large conglomerate who brings good things to life, and so I could be required to move at any time for my job, and I STILL would choose owning over renting every single time. 

Skeever, unless you have some other limitation (can't drive, won't drive) it seems to me there are a lot more options than you are looking at.  If you want to identify a house or two that you are looking at and PM me, I will walk you through as best I can what you are looking at, and show you some alternatives.  Not trying to convince you of anything (it's your call based on your comfort level) but as I and others have said, at LEAST have the right numbers in front of you when you are making the decision. 
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Calvin6s on April 09, 2015, 03:57:55 PM
There really is only one positive with renting.  Mobility.

What's so great about that?  I hated every damn move!

Job opportunities.  I moved to Las Vegas in the 90s and cut me teeth on my profession.  It would have been more difficult if I had a house.  Renting the house is something you can do, but sometimes you get a great renter, sometimes you get the renter from hell.  And now you are driving back on your weekends to pacify them, costing you your sanity and possibly losing focus at your great new job.

But once again:  Home ownership pros = Lots v. Renting pros = one
Just trying to be impartial
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: JayOctavarium on April 09, 2015, 11:45:11 PM
This has got to be the most interesting thread I've read on DTF in a while.


I have very limited knowledge on the subject but one thing that makes buying worthwhile is the $$$.

A year or so ago Panda and I started looking in to the idea of buying a place together. Nothing extravagant... like a condo in the sub $200k range (under $130 would have been preferred.) We met with a broker and ran the numbers and we could have gotten something small (900-1000 square ft), which is exactly like what we are in now (we actually were considering buying the condo are in but the owner doesn't plan on selling yet) and we could have, with everything including HOA payments, been paying like $1100 a month. Right now we pay $1350 a month in rent.

We obviously didn't wind up doing it but it was an eye opener.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Jarlaxle on April 10, 2015, 12:23:21 AM
Your guys' housing market is so cheap. A condo where I am (Saskatchewan, Canada) would run you anywhere frm 180k to 250k. And you can't get a house cheaper than 300k, unless you want to live in Stabsville.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: eric42434224 on April 10, 2015, 06:59:29 AM
Your guys' housing market is so cheap. A condo where I am (Saskatchewan, Canada) would run you anywhere frm 180k to 250k. And you can't get a house cheaper than 300k, unless you want to live in Stabsville.

You are neglecting the exchange rate between US and Canadian Dollar.
300k in Canada is 238k in US.  Big Difference.


And $297k is the average house price in Saskatchewan, Canada.
The average adjusted to Canadian Dollars house price in Ft. Lauderdale, FL is $358k

I think your market is the cheap one
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Stadler on April 10, 2015, 08:05:02 AM
...and we could have, with everything including HOA payments, been paying like $1100 a month. Right now we pay $1350 a month in rent.

Here was the eye-opener for me:  granted, he has additional risk (which is why the premium), but every five months, you're giving him one whole additional mortgage payment. 
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: cramx3 on April 10, 2015, 08:22:24 AM
...and we could have, with everything including HOA payments, been paying like $1100 a month. Right now we pay $1350 a month in rent.

Here was the eye-opener for me:  granted, he has additional risk (which is why the premium), but every five months, you're giving him one whole additional mortgage payment.

And that extra payment every five months goes a long way to paying less interest!  No penalties for paying more on the mortgage so if you can afford to, its a good place to put your money.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: eric42434224 on April 10, 2015, 08:28:41 AM
...and we could have, with everything including HOA payments, been paying like $1100 a month. Right now we pay $1350 a month in rent.

Here was the eye-opener for me:  granted, he has additional risk (which is why the premium), but every five months, you're giving him one whole additional mortgage payment.

And that extra payment every five months goes a long way to paying less interest!  No penalties for paying more on the mortgage so if you can afford to, its a good place to put your money.

Paying down the mortgage is not always the smartest.  If you have a low rate, coupled with tax deuctions, the cost of leveraging the banks money to get the equity of the appreciating asset is just too low to not use.  The extra income stream from the rental would be better served in long term investments (tax deferred retirement if they are allowed).  A properly constructed, asset allocated portfolio, where one dollar cost averages in, will out perform the benefits of paying down a mortgage early in most scenario.s
But you never know the actual scenario of the owner.  Paying down a mortgage early sounds great, b ut it is not always the most efficient thing to do.
Having accessible funds in retirement is easier than having to tap the equity in your properties.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: cramx3 on April 10, 2015, 08:34:26 AM
...and we could have, with everything including HOA payments, been paying like $1100 a month. Right now we pay $1350 a month in rent.

Here was the eye-opener for me:  granted, he has additional risk (which is why the premium), but every five months, you're giving him one whole additional mortgage payment.

And that extra payment every five months goes a long way to paying less interest!  No penalties for paying more on the mortgage so if you can afford to, its a good place to put your money.

Paying down the mortgage is not always the smartest.  If you have a low rate, coupled with tax deuctions, the cost of leveraging the banks money to get the equity of the appreciating asset is just too low to not use.  The extra income stream from the rental would be better served in long term investments (tax deferred retirement if they are allowed).  A properly constructed, asset allocated portfolio, where one dollar cost averages in, will out perform the benefits of paying down a mortgage early in most scenario.s
But you never know the actual scenario of the owner.  Paying down a mortgage early sounds great, b ut it is not always the most efficient thing to do.
Having accessible funds in retirement is easier than having to tap the equity in your properties.

Assuming the interest rate is low (which they are now) then yes, money could be put in better places, but if you owe a lot on a house, even with a low rate, you are still paying a lot of money in interest that you could be saving.  Also for me or others who used an FHA loan, getting to that 20% equity is a goal because you wont have to pay that extra PMI every month which comes out to ~$150 for me.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: eric42434224 on April 10, 2015, 08:55:54 AM
Agreed on the rate.  But it would be reasonable to assume that the property owner refinanced during the past few years and has a good rate.  Also, the majority of income property owners wont buy on FHA, and most wouldnt pay PMI.  I am sure some do and are landlords by necessity and circumstance, but most that own income properties dont.

But to answer you, it does all depend on the individual circumstances.  But the countless times I advise clients on these matters, when the numbers are run, it is usually advised that they do not pay down the mortgage.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: JayOctavarium on April 10, 2015, 09:02:12 AM
The guy who owns the place I rent bought it in cash a couple years ago and plans on renting it out for a few years and then flipping it.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: kirksnosehair on April 10, 2015, 01:14:55 PM
I will admit that a lot of my hesitation toward home owning may stem from a lack of education on personal finance issues. I know how to balance my own budget, but I'm certainly not very knowledgeable on what I should pay for things, how I should go about getting loan, what kind of loan I should get, what I should put down, etc. I guess I should get educated. Easier said than done, though. Part of what's so scary to me is the risk of it all. As a first time home buyer who's also on his first real job, I don't want to make a mistake and I don't want to get ripped off, and I definitely don't want to get in over my head. Unfortunately those are all things which realtors don't seem to care much about. Oh well. I guess I'll figure it out. Slow and steady wins the race, I suppose, and it won't kill me to rent while I try and figure out what's best for me.


I've purchased 2 homes in the last 15 years.  The first one was a 1000 sq ft cottage that cost $172,900 and I'd estimate that we put $20k into upgrades and repairs over the 12 years that we owned it.  I leased apartments before buying the first house.  The last lease we had on a 1 bedroom/1 bath apartment was $1100/month, that was in October of 2000.  When we moved into the first home we bought our mortgage/taxes/etc totaled about $1300/month, so our rent went up, but we went from living in about 600 sq ft to 1000 and that felt HUGE. (for about a week  :facepalm:  )




So anyway, that $1300/month lease was in 2000.  We moved into the house in October of 2000.  On the day we moved out of that house, the exact same apartment that we had lived in prior to the home was leased for $1750/month.  In 12 years of paying the full mortgage payment + $500 every month, by the time we sold the house ($223k) we had accumulated a LOT of equity ($140k) and it was that equity that allowed us to buy the home we live in now, which has more than 3 times the space the last one had.  It's also only about 30 years old.  The other one was 75 years old.


I felt the same way about buying a home that you feel, Skeever.  I was skeptical.  And afraid of getting myself in a big jam that I wouldn't be able to get myself out of.  But the wife and I took the plunge into home ownership and it was probably one of the best things we've ever done to lift ourselves up/challenge ourselves.  There is always going to be some measure of risk in buying a home, but overall I still believe it's the most reliable way to build wealth that average people have available to them.  And to have the benefit of living within the vehicle that is building that wealth for you, it's a win-win and imho it's a no-brainer.  You are practically guaranteed to come out ahead if you buy a home and stay in it for 5+ years.  And the longer you stay the more of the house you own.  Eventually you can borrow against that equity and that gives you a nice way to fund projects to improve your home, which increase the value of your investment...


For me, especially now with the benefit of hindsight, I'd say the benefits of home ownership far outweigh the negatives.  That's been my personal experience.  YMMV



Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: gmillerdrake on July 24, 2015, 08:06:54 AM
this seemed like the most appropriate thread to post this in. I built a small landscape stone wall on our front porch. Every home in our subdivision has these PVC clean out pipes for our sewer...in the front yard, so I've been wanting to hide it. I still need to back fill with dirt...cut the pipe down and then grab some vegetation....but I'm so glad to have this out of the way. After getting the materials in the morning at LOWES ($308.78 worth) and then getting it unloaded at home, I started just at noon. Finished up right around 7:00 pm. Long day, but as I said....happy to have this done.



(https://i791.photobucket.com/albums/yy197/gmillerdrake/5BF35AE3-A372-46FE-BBB5-05581733A5DE.jpg) (https://s791.photobucket.com/user/gmillerdrake/media/5BF35AE3-A372-46FE-BBB5-05581733A5DE.jpg.html)


(https://i791.photobucket.com/albums/yy197/gmillerdrake/727AB4DC-C2F0-40D3-9002-2F0271CC96A6.jpg) (https://s791.photobucket.com/user/gmillerdrake/media/727AB4DC-C2F0-40D3-9002-2F0271CC96A6.jpg.html)


(https://i791.photobucket.com/albums/yy197/gmillerdrake/430006E6-F790-48ED-98B7-F63AF319256C_1.jpg) (https://s791.photobucket.com/user/gmillerdrake/media/430006E6-F790-48ED-98B7-F63AF319256C_1.jpg.html)


(https://i791.photobucket.com/albums/yy197/gmillerdrake/00672A14-C766-460D-A558-8E5F9E85D311.jpg) (https://s791.photobucket.com/user/gmillerdrake/media/00672A14-C766-460D-A558-8E5F9E85D311.jpg.html)


(https://i791.photobucket.com/albums/yy197/gmillerdrake/9C2E357D-43C2-4504-AE84-7696021637CD.jpg) (https://s791.photobucket.com/user/gmillerdrake/media/9C2E357D-43C2-4504-AE84-7696021637CD.jpg.html)

(zoomed in...yeah, that's level  :tup)

(https://i791.photobucket.com/albums/yy197/gmillerdrake/4d27efc7-c68c-4b57-bea3-163bd45d351b.jpg) (https://s791.photobucket.com/user/gmillerdrake/media/4d27efc7-c68c-4b57-bea3-163bd45d351b.jpg.html)


(https://i791.photobucket.com/albums/yy197/gmillerdrake/B5339F65-1461-4E42-A105-F1E855442246_3.jpg) (https://s791.photobucket.com/user/gmillerdrake/media/B5339F65-1461-4E42-A105-F1E855442246_3.jpg.html)


(https://i791.photobucket.com/albums/yy197/gmillerdrake/32DAA5A7-5044-41C0-84C8-FD04D395E0B2_1.jpg) (https://s791.photobucket.com/user/gmillerdrake/media/32DAA5A7-5044-41C0-84C8-FD04D395E0B2_1.jpg.html)


(https://i791.photobucket.com/albums/yy197/gmillerdrake/26E0911C-E43E-43BB-911F-0EE459185489.jpg) (https://s791.photobucket.com/user/gmillerdrake/media/26E0911C-E43E-43BB-911F-0EE459185489.jpg.html)
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: cramx3 on July 24, 2015, 08:17:08 AM
Cool, nice job!  Your street looks like something out of a movie where all the houses are very similar and all clean cut.

Are you going to put plants in there once its backfilled? 
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: gmillerdrake on July 24, 2015, 08:36:50 AM
Cool, nice job!  Your street looks like something out of a movie where all the houses are very similar and all clean cut.

No kidding. That side of the street is very conducive for the 'walk out' basements. The builder offers several different Ranch floor plans but it seems that out of the 20+ homes on that side of the street near all of them chose the same floor plan with similar outdoor finishes. The side of the street I'm on has more 2 story homes. But, they are all very clean and nice looking and what I like is that the Post Office has set up all our mailboxes in one location at the front entrance....so there isn't a mish mash of mailbox designs down the street and it looks more 'open'.

Are you going to put plants in there once its backfilled?

Oh yeah, just don't know what yet. Gonna get it filled in and then start looking in to that.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: King Postwhore on July 24, 2015, 01:57:24 PM
Mindblowing sex without waking the neighbors.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Skeever on July 24, 2015, 06:53:45 PM
Wow, this thread got bumped.

Anyway, you guys might not believe it, but I'm a homeowner now.

Turns out my previous realtor blew in most ways imaginable. After "giving up" here, I contacted a new realtor a few days later who found me a new place in a matter of weeks. She actually explained things to me, helped me find an area I could afford, and was there every step of the way through my settlement process.

To the people who didn't believe me, I can now confirm that taxes are every bit as high in jersey as I claimed initially (suck it, eric) (jk). But still, it's been worth it so far. Yeah I'm paying about $300~ more than I was renting when you factor taxes in, but I can handle it, and it feels so much better to come home to a my own place as night.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: jingle.boy on July 24, 2015, 08:43:44 PM
Nice job Gary.  Levelling out that elevation look so much more natural against your front porch.  Well done.  :tup
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: bout to crash on July 25, 2015, 01:18:10 AM
Nice Gary... and the pup!  :D

Wow, this thread got bumped.

Anyway, you guys might not believe it, but I'm a homeowner now.

Turns out my previous realtor blew in most ways imaginable. After "giving up" here, I contacted a new realtor a few days later who found me a new place in a matter of weeks. She actually explained things to me, helped me find an area I could afford, and was there every step of the way through my settlement process.

To the people who didn't believe me, I can now confirm that taxes are every bit as high in jersey as I claimed initially (suck it, eric) (jk). But still, it's been worth it so far. Yeah I'm paying about $300~ more than I was renting when you factor taxes in, but I can handle it, and it feels so much better to come home to a my own place as night.

Congrats!

My condo is feeling more and more like home- I've gotten some cool furniture and it's decorated just as weirdly as you guys would expect :lol... still trying to find more ways to make it homey, where to put things, etc. but it's getting there. And I have to say, though it would be nice to have a yard and a bit more privacy, I'm REALLY glad I don't have all the responsibility of a house. Maybe if I lived with somebody else, but no way I would be able to keep that shit up on my own.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: gmillerdrake on July 26, 2015, 08:14:46 PM
Tomorrow's project..... :tup


(https://i791.photobucket.com/albums/yy197/gmillerdrake/D104433F-7DFF-427D-BFD0-8DD257D4B113.jpg) (https://s791.photobucket.com/user/gmillerdrake/media/D104433F-7DFF-427D-BFD0-8DD257D4B113.jpg.html)
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Chino on July 27, 2015, 06:51:26 AM
To the people who didn't believe me, I can now confirm that taxes are every bit as high in jersey as I claimed initially (suck it, eric) (jk). But still, it's been worth it so far. Yeah I'm paying about $300~ more than I was renting when you factor taxes in, but I can handle it, and it feels so much better to come home to a my own place as night.

Not to mention that you have an asset you can sell.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Calvin6s on July 27, 2015, 07:45:23 AM
Not to mention that you have an asset you can sell.

And every improvement adds value to your use of the house as well as increasing that asset value.  I don't own my business office and I can't tell you how many decisions are made with a necessary 2-3 year RoI to even be considered.  What if I pay for solar panels and the landlord decides they can now charge more $/SF and raises the rent as high as legally possible.  I'm paying for the improvement twice.  And if I leave, I'm abandoning the investment before it pays for itself.  And you can remove the improvements you made, but it becomes more of a grudge thing at that point as you've already paid labor (and/or time of install).

Same concept with home ownership.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Chino on July 27, 2015, 07:55:00 AM
Not to mention that you have an asset you can sell.

And every improvement adds value to your use of the house as well as increasing that asset value.  I don't own my business office and I can't tell you how many decisions are made with a necessary 2-3 year RoI to even be considered.  What if I pay for solar panels and the landlord decides they can now charge more $/SF and raises the rent as high as legally possible.  I'm paying for the improvement twice.  And if I leave, I'm abandoning the investment before it pays for itself.  And you can remove the improvements you made, but it becomes more of a grudge thing at that point as you've already paid labor (and/or time of install).

Same concept with home ownership.

I feel bad in that regard when I think about buying my house. I bought it off an old Lady who acquired the house in January 2008. She rebuilt the fireplace, in 2014 and put in a new furnace in early 2015. She included over $10k worth of kitchen and laundry appliances with the sale. She finished the attic and added a second full bath. Every room was repainted and she built a patio out back as well. I bought it for $2000 more than she did in 2008. I beat her up pretty good during negotiations, but I wasn't doing it to be an asshole. It was literally all the money I had and she didn't have to play ball.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: cramx3 on July 27, 2015, 08:10:15 AM
Not to mention that you have an asset you can sell.

And every improvement adds value to your use of the house as well as increasing that asset value.  I don't own my business office and I can't tell you how many decisions are made with a necessary 2-3 year RoI to even be considered.  What if I pay for solar panels and the landlord decides they can now charge more $/SF and raises the rent as high as legally possible.  I'm paying for the improvement twice.  And if I leave, I'm abandoning the investment before it pays for itself.  And you can remove the improvements you made, but it becomes more of a grudge thing at that point as you've already paid labor (and/or time of install).

Same concept with home ownership.

I feel bad in that regard when I think about buying my house. I bought it off an old Lady who acquired the house in January 2008. She rebuilt the fireplace, in 2014 and put in a new furnace in early 2015. She included over $10k worth of kitchen and laundry appliances with the sale. She finished the attic and added a second full bath. Every room was repainted and she built a patio out back as well. I bought it for $2000 more than she did in 2008. I beat her up pretty good during negotiations, but I wasn't doing it to be an asshole. It was literally all the money I had and she didn't have to play ball.

On a personal level you feel bad, but that's cause you are a decent guy.  Can't hold yourself back though cause it's a business decision and you got to do what you got to to make it happen, same with her.  At the end of the day, you both agreed.

I bought my house from a very old lady as well.  She had just redone the roofing and she sold the house to me for 20k less than her asking price and then at closing we argued for another 1k for a few minor issues we found in the house that morning that we thought could be costly, although ended up not being costly, but we were close to walking away at that point because we felt like she was lying to us.  Regardless, I'm sure she didn't get the best deal out there and for that I feel bad for her, but I don't feel too bad because she did agree to it all and she got the benefit of not having to deal with people viewing her house (went on the market Friday, we had our agreement the next Monday) which was something she was outspoken about (and my Mother who was my real estate agent, used to effectively get her to settle for a lower price).  It's just business.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: jingle.boy on July 27, 2015, 08:19:02 AM
Would either of you feel bad if you got that kinda deal, or did those kind of negotiations with a non "old-lady"?  So long as you weren't cruel, disrespectful or manipulative, there's nothing to feel bad about in negotiating anything, with anyone.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Chino on July 27, 2015, 08:27:48 AM
Would either of you feel bad if you got that kinda deal, or did those kind of negotiations with a non "old-lady"?  So long as you weren't cruel, disrespectful or manipulative, there's nothing to feel bad about in negotiating anything, with anyone.

I think I'd still feel bad. I don't love the fact that I got someone else's $30K investment for free. Old lady definitely makes it worse though.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: cramx3 on July 27, 2015, 08:36:19 AM
Old lady definitely adds to the feel bad part, and if I was her, I am not sure if I would feel bad or not.  Probably though, and our negotiations only got nasty about one issue that we felt like she was lying about and that same conversation came up when we found more evidence of her lies at the closing table, but even then it was really just the lawyers getting nasty.  There was never ill will from us or the old lady, like I said, it's just business. 
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Stadler on July 27, 2015, 09:39:25 AM
Maybe it's because I've done this so much (in process now of buying my sixth home) or because I a lawyer (no jokes please) but I left the "feel bad" thing behind long ago, for several reasons.  One, the "investment" is purely subjective.  When it comes to homes everyone has their "personal issues", meaning some of those "investments" aren't really.  Just because you spend "$x" dollars on a house doesn't mean that the value goes up the same amount.   In fact, more often than not, it has little if any effect.   Two, can't speak for your case, but in mine (also buying from an elderly couple, been in the house 45 years!!) there are agents and lawyers on both sides, and in fact I played HARDER ball because of the presence of the agent.  I don't know if she felt some obligation to the couple to be a pitbull, but she was totally obnoxious and on several occasions was abusive to our agent.   So for me, gloves were off.  Three, she set the price, and she - as a presumably able and competent adult - had the right at any time to say "no deal". 

Seriously, if you feel that bad and you want to make right, do it on the side out of the transaction, but within the terms of the home purchase you owe it to yourself and your family to cut the best deal you can.  You only have one shot at it (outside of re-financing). 
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: jasc15 on July 27, 2015, 02:07:06 PM
If you really want a house and can afford* one , then buy one, but don't fool yourself into thinking it is a smart investment.  Don't try to time the mortgage interest rates either.  People are paid lots of money and spend their entire careers trying to do that and still can't.  Don't be concerned about the house losing value, because you shouldn't be selling it in a time frame where that is likely to matter.

*i.e., 20% down payment, <28% of cash flow for mortgage payment, and <36% of cash flow for total debt payments, though I intend on having those percentages much less in my case.

A glib, but useful thought on home buying I once came across:

Quote
Owning home is like having an unpaid part-time job working for the bank maintaining their investment. When the mortgage is paid, you get a house that is 30 years older and in need of more repair.

my $.02
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: cramx3 on July 27, 2015, 02:16:27 PM
Like an investment there are risks and market conditions that are out of your control.  Regardless, from my understanding, owning a home is one of the better investments, not because of the profit, but because you get to live there and historically owning the house does give a monetary return besides the emotional return.  Also, timing the mortgage interest helped me save money on my loan.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Calvin6s on July 27, 2015, 02:49:14 PM
I feel bad in that regard when I think about buying my house.

On a related but separate issue, when I bought a house for the sole purpose of reselling it at a higher rate during the Bush years, I had a friend that gave me "that is what makes it so guys like me can never afford a house."

This person is almost old enough to be my father.  And even though what he says holds merit, it is the thinking of an idealistic teenager (and this dude is not stupid).  Me not buying and selling a house is not going to change the marketplace.  It just means I'm going to get old and bitter grumbling how I had my principles.  I could have been financial secure, but I won't sell my soul in the process.  And I would probably be telling this in some sort of government line for financial support.  If you can see an opportunity and you aren't doing anything illegal, you should do it.  If you don't, somebody else will just fill your spot.

On the flip side, I managed to not be left holding any property other than my own residence in 2008.  I even had thoughts (correctly) that I could sell the house for what would be 2 to 3x the value by 2009-2010 and then buy one or even two houses outright.  It would have worked.  And every hunch I had was correct on timing.  But there is something about putting your own home on the gambling table.  What if I was wrong.  And the market just kept going up and I was priced out.  The downside was a long shot, but no matter how confident you are, once you get into the home market, it is very scary to actually get back out.  Sometimes fear wins out over all your instincts no matter how well they have served you.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Stadler on July 28, 2015, 07:34:54 AM
If you really want a house and can afford* one , then buy one, but don't fool yourself into thinking it is a smart investment.  Don't try to time the mortgage interest rates either.  People are paid lots of money and spend their entire careers trying to do that and still can't.  Don't be concerned about the house losing value, because you shouldn't be selling it in a time frame where that is likely to matter.

*i.e., 20% down payment, <28% of cash flow for mortgage payment, and <36% of cash flow for total debt payments, though I intend on having those percentages much less in my case.

A glib, but useful thought on home buying I once came across:

Quote
Owning home is like having an unpaid part-time job working for the bank maintaining their investment. When the mortgage is paid, you get a house that is 30 years older and in need of more repair.

my $.02

That's "Twitter thinking" (used to be "Bumper-sticker thinking" back in the day), meaning, trying to shoehorn and over-simplify a concept that is for better or worse far more complex than it seems down to something quippy for Twitter.  Your quote sounds good, but doesn't hold water under more intense (read: ANY) scrutiny. 

That something is hard to do, and not a 100% sure thing doesn't make it "bad".   
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: jasc15 on July 28, 2015, 08:52:20 AM
That's "Twitter thinking" (used to be "Bumper-sticker thinking" back in the day), meaning, trying to shoehorn and over-simplify a concept that is for better or worse far more complex than it seems down to something quippy for Twitter.  Your quote sounds good, but doesn't hold water under more intense (read: ANY) scrutiny. 

That something is hard to do, and not a 100% sure thing doesn't make it "bad".   
Which is why it is not the basis of my point.  It was a "glib" comment which I added after making my point.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Stadler on July 28, 2015, 12:00:08 PM
That's "Twitter thinking" (used to be "Bumper-sticker thinking" back in the day), meaning, trying to shoehorn and over-simplify a concept that is for better or worse far more complex than it seems down to something quippy for Twitter.  Your quote sounds good, but doesn't hold water under more intense (read: ANY) scrutiny. 

That something is hard to do, and not a 100% sure thing doesn't make it "bad".   
Which is why it is not the basis of my point.  It was a "glib" comment which I added after making my point.

But (respectfully), while you did acknowledge it was "glib", you also said it was "useful" - it is not - and, glib or not, it was in keeping with the remainder of your post, which I - again respectfully - disagree with. 
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: carl320 on September 16, 2015, 12:12:06 PM
Bump, since I've officially began the process of buying a house.  I was pre-approved for a loan through a local credit union today, which (I didn't realize until recently) I should have done before looking at houses.  Never mind that technicality.

No questions (as of now).  Kind of nervous, kind of excited.  Looking forward to finding out what's out there.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: cramx3 on September 16, 2015, 12:27:08 PM
Good luck and check out as much as you can, get different quotes, and hopefully you find a great home
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Calvin6s on September 16, 2015, 04:59:30 PM
I was pre-approved for a loan through a local credit union today, which (I didn't realize until recently) I should have done before looking at houses.

It isn't mandatory, but it gives you leverage and keeps you from rushing the loan price to get a house you *have to have*.

Don't be afraid to reject a loan offer (although in this economy, it probably is tougher to do now).  The odds are there are going to be a few things in the long loan documents you won't like and will just have to accept.  But you don't have to accept everything thrown your way.  I know when I helped my parents sell their house (and use some of the proceeds to pay off the remainder of the old house), I spoke up about something they tried to include that would have added about $10,000+ in a prepayment penalty clause.  After a couple of phone calls, a couple of letters and a couple of predatory law #'s tossed their way, they waived it.  I remember telling the parents "you should have never signed this in the first place" and they said "it was the best loan we could get.  It was that or nothing."  This was about 15 years ago though, but most bad loans are simply because people sign anything put in front of them without realizing they can challenge parts of it.

Having a good relationship with your bank / credit union can help quite a bit as well.  There are tons of books on the process.

Oh, and when you are nearing the end or wrapping it up, the simultaneous feelings of "woo hoo" and "did I just bite off more than I can chew.  Is that fence 1/4" out of alignment?  I think I could have done better" are pretty normal.  After a few payments, it subsides.  And when your friend is mumbling about your rent going up, you will be jumping for joy.  Unless of course the bottom falls out of the market again and you have to wait 5-10 years just to gain back the value of your purchase.

Anthrax Belly of the Beast laugh ... a ha ha.     Ha ha    hahahahahahahahahahaha
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Stadler on September 17, 2015, 07:53:37 AM
Couple things:  do NOT get intimidated by the loan process.  Ever since the market crash it has been an abomination to get a loan.   I have negotiated multiple contracts (commercially) in the $100MM range, and it was nothing like the paperwork I had to do for my recent loan.   I literally sent four 50+ page faxes (imagine the file size if I scanned THAT!) through the process.   

Second, Calvin is right:  as you near the end (and immediately after) your emotions are going to be like those balls on the cover of Octavarium.  Just remember, provided you pass the inspection (those are the best dollars you will ever spend, if you spend them right), there's very little that can't be fixed, repaired, made to look nice, with a little elbow grease and perhaps some help from your friends.

I know for me, I get great joy out of watching the principal go down month to month (even if it is slowly) and knowing I am putting money in my pocket.  Five to ten years isn't long to wait, especially since even with a GOOD market and accounting for moving costs and closing costs, five years is aggressive to see any real return.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Chino on September 17, 2015, 07:55:49 AM
I feel like I must have gotten lucky when I bought my house. It took all of 10 minutes for my bank to give me $150k at 3.25%. I thought I was doing something wrong because it was so easy.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Stadler on September 17, 2015, 08:07:40 AM
I feel like I must have gotten lucky when I bought my house. It took all of 10 minutes for my bank to give me $150k at 3.25%. I thought I was doing something wrong because it was so easy.

Well, full disclosure, I went FHA for several reasons, and I don't think I would have in a perfect world.  That was a lot of the administrative effort.   I needed to stay as liquid as I could, and couldn't bring a ton of cash to the closing.  So - and no red flags, I've done this before - I was able to get a little more house for the same amount of money down.  With three kids, two dogs, and a limited geography, it was the best compromise.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: cramx3 on September 17, 2015, 08:18:03 AM
I went conventional when I purchased the house, but had to go FHA when I refinanced on my own to get my x's name off everything since we went in 50/50 initially.  Didn't exactly have any cash after I paid her out so it was my only option to keep the house (which is close to my friends family, and easy commute to work.... plus I knew it would help scoring a future lady) plus it was a great investment while the rates were still low.  The paperwork is insane and the hours spent with my broker were a lot, stressful, and the thoughts in your mind are like what everyone is saying here, plus I had a lot of emotion running through my from the break up.  The initial buying process was a lot less stressful for me since my mother is a real estate agent so she made things super easy, plus gave me her commission that went back into the house (granite counter tops in the kitchen), and also set me up with a mortgage broker and lawyer who helped for little or no compensation.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: jingle.boy on September 17, 2015, 12:57:22 PM
Thank god for the Canadian banking system. 
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Calvin6s on September 17, 2015, 08:59:01 PM
I feel like I must have gotten lucky when I bought my house. It took all of 10 minutes for my bank to give me $150k at 3.25%. I thought I was doing something wrong because it was so easy.
There's quite a bit more to a loan than that.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Chino on September 18, 2015, 04:08:42 AM
I feel like I must have gotten lucky when I bought my house. It took all of 10 minutes for my bank to give me $150k at 3.25%. I thought I was doing something wrong because it was so easy.
There's quite a bit more to a loan than that.

Thanks for the heads up. I'll email myself from 11 months ago and let me know.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: cramx3 on September 18, 2015, 06:33:21 AM
10 minutes including the actual approval?  Took my bank awhile just to approve the loan after all the paperwork was submitted, which took way more than 10 minutes, heck just 10 minutes to print it all.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Stadler on September 18, 2015, 06:35:31 AM
Thank god for the Canadian banking system.

Don't get me started; this is my fifth house - no defaults, no foreclosures, no bankruptcies, no modifications, EVER - and by FAR the most difficult to purchase.   We HAD a system that worked, but in typical fashion, the knee-jerk "punish the corporation" mentality of certain leadership has, as it inevitably does, trickled down to the consumer as opposed to ACTUALLY punishing the corporation, and well, we are where we are.  This is why Trump sounds so good to so many.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Chino on September 18, 2015, 06:47:28 AM
10 minutes including the actual approval?  Took my bank awhile just to approve the loan after all the paperwork was submitted, which took way more than 10 minutes, heck just 10 minutes to print it all.

It wasn't literally 10 minutes  :lol Sorry if that came off as super serious. I spent about 15-20 minutes on the phone with a mortgage broker and had to fax a few things for identification purposes. The lowest I could get them was 3.5%. I called the guy at Webster Bank that my dad refinanced his mortgage with about two and a half years ago. I talked to him for about 10 minutes and faxed him a few paystubs. The bank approved my loan and called me back in less than a day saying they could do 3.25%. I had the house less than two weeks later. Regardless, I was expecting weeks of going back and forth and wanting to punch stuff, and it ended up being incredibly easy and hassle free.

I found dealing with the closing attorney (sorry Stadler) to be the most difficult part. The guy who was handling my closing (Kie Westby) was also running for attorney general and the election was in the same week as my closing date. He was super hard to reach and bailed about 4 hours before I was supposed to close.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: cramx3 on September 18, 2015, 06:49:47 AM
10 minutes including the actual approval?  Took my bank awhile just to approve the loan after all the paperwork was submitted, which took way more than 10 minutes, heck just 10 minutes to print it all.

It wasn't literally 10 minutes  :lol Sorry if that came off as super serious. I spent about 15-20 minutes on the phone with a mortgage broker and had to fax a few things for identification purposes. The lowest I could get them was 3.5%. I called the guy at Webster Bank that my dad refinanced his mortgage with about two and a half years ago. I talked to him for about 10 minutes and faxed him a few paystubs. The bank approved my loan and called me back in less than a day saying they could do 3.25%. I had the house less than two weeks later. Regardless, I was expecting weeks of going back and forth and wanting to punch stuff, and it ended up being incredibly easy and hassle free.

I found dealing with the closing attorney (sorry Stadler) to be the most difficult part. The guy who was handling my closing was also running for attorney general and the election was in the same week as my closing date. He was super hard to reach and bailed about 4 hours before I was supposed to close.

Wow, that is quick.  As I was reading, I was thinking this sounded just like the pre-approval process. 15 minute phone conversation and bam you get a number.  But since you said you actually closed, I am amazed, but that's great though.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Stadler on September 18, 2015, 06:58:44 AM
The phone parts don't surprise me; in July I had a refi on a second home I own (also to get an ex off the mortgage) basically pre-approved in three phone calls and a Fed Ex package, which kind of sounds like what Chino is describing, but the "close in two weeks", that's a shocker, because even with the painless interaction with the consumer, there is still a lot of "behind the scenes":  appraisals, insurance, closing docs, title search, etc. that even if easy and painless, still takes time to do.   That wasn't too bad because it was not FHA and it was the same lender as the current mortgage, so they had a lot of my info, and had a credit history at their finger tips.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: carl320 on September 19, 2015, 01:26:32 PM
I was under the impression that I needed all of the pay stubs, tax returns, etc. for pre-approval so I had all of that on hand on Wednesday.  I guess that will help speed things up, and possibly help if I am interested in a place.

One gripe though.  I've looked at about ten houses already in a nearby town.  Just for reference, I live in Northern Indiana, 100 miles from Chicago so the COL is pretty low.  I went into the search with (what I thought) was a reasonable budget for the area (50-60k), and the houses I've looked at are junk.  I even raised the budget (90k) and I still find wavy floors, cracked slabs, and houses that smell like cat urine.  I know realtors are trying to sell houses, but do they go into the houses before they are listed? 

Maybe my budget is still way too low for the area I'm looking in...
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: bout to crash on September 19, 2015, 02:53:25 PM
They will probably ask you for your most recent pay stubs and stuff a couple of times during the process. That was annoying.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Stadler on September 21, 2015, 07:11:57 AM
I was under the impression that I needed all of the pay stubs, tax returns, etc. for pre-approval so I had all of that on hand on Wednesday.  I guess that will help speed things up, and possibly help if I am interested in a place.

One gripe though.  I've looked at about ten houses already in a nearby town.  Just for reference, I live in Northern Indiana, 100 miles from Chicago so the COL is pretty low.  I went into the search with (what I thought) was a reasonable budget for the area (50-60k), and the houses I've looked at are junk.  I even raised the budget (90k) and I still find wavy floors, cracked slabs, and houses that smell like cat urine.  I know realtors are trying to sell houses, but do they go into the houses before they are listed? 

Maybe my budget is still way too low for the area I'm looking in...

This is meaningless in a direct way, since geography does play a part, but if you're talking HOUSE, and not condo or town home, my initial impression is that your numbers are unrealistically low if you are unwilling to put in effort (either rehab or cleaning).   Here, where I am (northern Connecticut) double your range, and you're STILL in "cat piss" zone.   Even in South Carolina, where the market is not fully back yet, you can't buy a reasonable townhome for less than $125K. 

As for the realtors, I'm not sure what you're asking them to do?  Their job is to sell the houses brought to them.  Cat urine smell and all.   If it is worth $60k, SOMEONE will buy it.   

What you might try is take a weekend and go the other way:  call an agent, tell them "I want this, that, and the other thing" and see what they show you.  You'll get three or four examples, you'll see what the asking prices are for those examples, then you can sit down with him/her and say "well, here's my desired range, and here's what I'm willing to compromise on" and see if the two circles (the set of houses you want and the set of houses that are for sale) overlap.  If they don't, you have a hard decision to make.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: cramx3 on September 21, 2015, 09:27:06 AM
Also without knowing the area, my initial thought is that budget is too low as well for a house that isn't going to have problems and need work.  I also live in NJ where the prices are ridiculous so I could be completely off base.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Calvin6s on September 21, 2015, 09:48:27 AM
I live in SoCal, so every time (except maybe SanFranBay area) somebody says they paid $X for a house, my first thought is they bought a porta-potty.   :xbones
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: El Barto on January 13, 2017, 10:25:54 AM
Question for the guys (and possibly gals) good with this stuff:

Appears that most of the tax benefits associated with home ownership are based on the interest paid. If one were to buy a house interest free, say, from a family member, would there still be much of a benefit in taxation? Obviously there wouldn't be enough to negate the amount of interest one would pay via traditional mortgage, but there are other aspects I'm curious about.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Stadler on January 13, 2017, 10:33:15 AM
Depends also if you live in the house, if it's your primary house, if there are any tenants, etc.

You get a property tax deduction as well, though it would be much less than the interest aspect.  Finally, depending on how you structure it, there might be a depreciation aspect as well. 

Talk to a tax guy, and if you're loathe to do that (I understand that, by the way) get a copy of TurboTax and play with it.  See what impacts what. 
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: El Barto on January 13, 2017, 12:59:24 PM
Depends also if you live in the house, if it's your primary house, if there are any tenants, etc.

You get a property tax deduction as well, though it would be much less than the interest aspect.  Finally, depending on how you structure it, there might be a depreciation aspect as well. 

Talk to a tax guy, and if you're loathe to do that (I understand that, by the way) get a copy of TurboTax and play with it.  See what impacts what.
That's a good idea. W2s are only a week away and I can play around with HRBlock to see some numbers. In the end the whole thing is going to be convoluted enough that I'll no doubt needs some professional help, though. Just trying to get some general ideas in advance.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: gmillerdrake on August 30, 2017, 08:48:40 AM
Didn't know where to put this but we just had a paver patio with outdoor fire pit built. One of the downsides of subdivision living is the houses are pretty much on top of each other....and with the model house our neighbor built his covered patio and ours are somewhat close together. So, our thought was to build a patio extension off our current covered patio....put a half wall up.....and on the other side of that half wall plant some landscape bushes/trees that will grow vertically that will break up the view a bit. So...we have the patio built....still need to get the landscaping going which I hope to do this fall.

Pics below will show the stages of construction.....


(https://i.imgur.com/6wN76OI.jpg)


(https://i.imgur.com/3rW8OLh.jpg)


(https://i.imgur.com/ilFJAiY.jpg)


(https://i.imgur.com/HjEatrU.jpg)


(https://i.imgur.com/2tluqHe.jpg)


(https://i.imgur.com/GJGiwqQ.jpg)


(https://i.imgur.com/ElN5kET.jpg)


(https://i.imgur.com/DBVhtDa.jpg)


(https://i.imgur.com/LOJgzXw.jpg)


Then I added lamps on Sunday:

(https://i.imgur.com/WXA9JL5.jpg)


I lucked out on the cost of the patio as one of my best friends Father in Law owns a Masonry company and he told me for the past couple years as I talked about this that when I decided to do it he'd hook me up. So I bought the materials and then just paid his guys cash....$30 hr and they nailed it for us. I drew up the design in CAD and they built it.


I'm hoping for some Labor Day sales on patio furniture. We're wanting to get more like a 'social' set....with a couple outdoor love seats and chairs and maybe small table. But I'm planning the inaugural fire for this Friday.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: cramx3 on August 30, 2017, 09:36:32 AM
That looks really nice and well done.  Love the fire pit.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Stadler on August 30, 2017, 09:48:31 AM
Yeah, but hard to film a porno on that with the neighbor's deck eight feet away.  :)
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: gmillerdrake on August 30, 2017, 09:57:30 AM
That looks really nice and well done.  Love the fire pit.

 :tup   thanks. The fire pit is my favorite part....stocked up on wood from my Grandpa's property last weekend so I'm set for some fall bonfires.

Yeah, but hard to film a porno on that with the neighbor's deck eight feet away.  :)

How do you know he's not in the script?   :lol
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Stadler on August 30, 2017, 10:08:23 AM
Yeah, but hard to film a porno on that with the neighbor's deck eight feet away.  :)

How do you know he's not in the script?   :lol

I've seen your neighbor.  :)
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: gmillerdrake on August 30, 2017, 10:14:50 AM
Yeah, but hard to film a porno on that with the neighbor's deck eight feet away.  :)

How do you know he's not in the script?   :lol

I've seen your neighbor.  :)

 :(
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: jingle.boy on August 30, 2017, 11:42:49 AM
Yeah, but hard to film a porno on that with the neighbor's deck eight feet away.  :)

How do you know he's not in the script?   :lol

I've seen your neighbor.  :)

Gary shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Orbert on August 30, 2017, 04:32:49 PM
Is the neighbor's wife in the script?  That's how these things usually work.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: gabeh1018 on August 31, 2017, 11:06:13 PM
Does anyone else live in NJ and love the absurd property taxes and how little your money buys you? I purchased my first home back in April of 2012 in Central jersey. It had caught fire the year before and was purchased by    contractors who redid the entire thing. It sold for 259k. It was a 900 sq foot home and the property taxes were 6600 a year last time I checked. I have since moved to a different house with my wife, but you get the point.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: cramx3 on September 01, 2017, 07:06:16 AM
Does anyone else live in NJ and love the absurd property taxes and how little your money buys you? I purchased my first home back in April of 2012 in Central jersey. It had caught fire the year before and was purchased by    contractors who redid the entire thing. It sold for 259k. It was a 900 sq foot home and the property taxes were 6600 a year last time I checked. I have since moved to a different house with my wife, but you get the point.

Sounds like my house, 1000 sqft, 6600 in taxes, central jersey  :lol

Yea, we don't get much bang for buck with our taxes here, but I love the area and being close to NYC and not far from Philly.  I think that is where I find the value in location (lots of jobs and concerts), not what my tax money returns to me.  I also don't have kids so not like I'm finding value in my local school system (although I support it).
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: jingle.boy on September 01, 2017, 07:11:38 AM
Does anyone else live in NJ and love the absurd property taxes and how little your money buys you? I purchased my first home back in April of 2012 in Central jersey. It had caught fire the year before and was purchased by    contractors who redid the entire thing. It sold for 259k. It was a 900 sq foot home and the property taxes were 6600 a year last time I checked. I have since moved to a different house with my wife, but you get the point.

Sounds like my house, 1000 sqft, 6600 in taxes, central jersey  :lol

Yea, we don't get much bang for buck with our taxes here, but I love the area and being close to NYC and not far from Philly.  I think that is where I find the value in location (lots of jobs and concerts), not what my tax money returns to me.  I also don't have kids so not like I'm finding value in my local school system (although I support it).

So, you're mandatorily paying for something that you don't intend to ever use.  Imagine that! 

Not a dig at you specifically at all - it's a dig at how people can lose their shit over this philosophy for healthcare, but accept it when it comes to (the property tax contribution towards) education.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Chino on September 01, 2017, 07:16:30 AM
Does anyone else live in NJ and love the absurd property taxes and how little your money buys you? I purchased my first home back in April of 2012 in Central jersey. It had caught fire the year before and was purchased by    contractors who redid the entire thing. It sold for 259k. It was a 900 sq foot home and the property taxes were 6600 a year last time I checked. I have since moved to a different house with my wife, but you get the point.

Sounds like my house, 1000 sqft, 6600 in taxes, central jersey  :lol

Yea, we don't get much bang for buck with our taxes here, but I love the area and being close to NYC and not far from Philly.  I think that is where I find the value in location (lots of jobs and concerts), not what my tax money returns to me.  I also don't have kids so not like I'm finding value in my local school system (although I support it).

So, you're mandatorily paying for something that you don't intend to ever use.  Imagine that! 

Not a dig at you specifically at all - it's a dig at how people can lose their shit over this philosophy for healthcare, but accept it when it comes to (the property tax contribution towards) education.

I paid $7600 in tax last year on my house. 1800 sqft and paid $143K for it.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: jasc15 on September 01, 2017, 07:18:10 AM
Does anyone else live in NJ and love the absurd property taxes and how little your money buys you? I purchased my first home back in April of 2012 in Central jersey. It had caught fire the year before and was purchased by    contractors who redid the entire thing. It sold for 259k. It was a 900 sq foot home and the property taxes were 6600 a year last time I checked. I have since moved to a different house with my wife, but you get the point.
I've come to accept it.  I am actually in contract to buy a house in Bergen county right now.  I could pay less tax elsewhere in the country, but there ain't no free lunch.*  This region doesn't experience boom and bust job markets like many other places, and the pay in my field of work is commensurate with the cost of living.  I could move 2 or 3 hours west into PA, get a bigger house for half the price and less than half the property taxes, but I can't earn nearly what I earn here with the job security I currently have.

*I actually briefly considered moving to another division of my company on the other side of the country a few years ago.  It is now scheduled to be shut down, and employees were offered relocation impossibly far away or simply to find another job.  This company is the only regional employer in my industry, and these folks are in a real tough spot.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Stadler on September 01, 2017, 07:22:34 AM
Does anyone else live in NJ and love the absurd property taxes and how little your money buys you? I purchased my first home back in April of 2012 in Central jersey. It had caught fire the year before and was purchased by    contractors who redid the entire thing. It sold for 259k. It was a 900 sq foot home and the property taxes were 6600 a year last time I checked. I have since moved to a different house with my wife, but you get the point.

Sounds like my house, 1000 sqft, 6600 in taxes, central jersey  :lol

Yea, we don't get much bang for buck with our taxes here, but I love the area and being close to NYC and not far from Philly.  I think that is where I find the value in location (lots of jobs and concerts), not what my tax money returns to me.  I also don't have kids so not like I'm finding value in my local school system (although I support it).

So, you're mandatorily paying for something that you don't intend to ever use.  Imagine that! 

Not a dig at you specifically at all - it's a dig at how people can lose their shit over this philosophy for healthcare, but accept it when it comes to (the property tax contribution towards) education.

Not at all the same thing. 

When I pay for YOUR healthcare, and you smoke, drink diet soda (the Devil's Semen), and not bother to get annual checkups, it's money sent to the ether.     When I pay property taxes - which, by the way, I do - not only does not all of it go to "education", but even when it does, it goes to brick and mortar assets that I reap benefits from (indirectly) in other ways.  I am also funding salaries that contribute to the town in various ways, and I also increase - in some cases - the value of my town in terms of desireability and property value.

I live in Northern CT now, and the school system in my town BLOWS.    My son is out, my daughter is out, my other daughter now goes to private school in CT, and my youngest son is in a special program.  We're having him tested and the hope is we can get him out of there and into a special school.  Having said that, there is still value brought to the community for paying for that.   When I lived in Glastonbury, CT, - where the schools are outstanding (Top Ten in the state) - we got a noticeable bump in property values for same.  I grew up in a small(er) town in CT, and they are a top ten in the state school system; what was a farm community (my grandparents built their own house when my mom was a little girl) is now probably a stretch for me financially to live in.  But, also unlike healthcare, I can move a short distance, have all the amenities of my community, and NOT pay for a school system that I don't use, or that doesn't bring me value. 

Contrast with your vaunted healthcare, where people are paying more than ever for healthcare, are being penalized by even HIGHER taxes for not contributing, 80% of Americans want the current system repealed or revamped, and it led good, diligent Americans - who are not racist, who voted for Obama - to decide our best option was a media-whore businessman with no elected experience whatsoever.   

Not at all the same thing. 
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Chino on September 01, 2017, 07:26:47 AM
What Stadler said. I might not ever go to the parks that my taxes pay to upkeep, but if they make families want to move to the town, I see their desire reflected in what they're willing to pay for my house.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: jingle.boy on September 01, 2017, 08:44:24 AM
True to form, you have a refute for anything I comment on - even when I'm being mostly facetious.  At some level, it is similar - A portion of property taxes is put towards the school systems.  If I don't have children, I'm contributing to something that benefits society, but I get no direct benefit from.  This is to some extent the argument I see against the fundamentals of Obamacare.

WHY CAN'T I HAVE A PROPERTY TAX PLAN THAT EXCLUDES WHAT I DON'T USE!?!?!  ESPECIALLY WHEN I LIVE IN A NEIGHBOURHOOD WHERE TRUANCY AND FAILURE RATES ARE SO HIGH!  CLEARLY NOT DOLLARS USED WISELY.

I'm not saying the education system doesn't GET the money, but (to use the healthcare arguments I see/hear) shouldn't the person that has 5 kids be paying more than the person who has zero kids?

As I said, I was being mostly facetious... this need not turn into our usual back and forth point/counter-point.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Stadler on September 01, 2017, 10:08:46 AM
True to form, you have a refute for anything I comment on - even when I'm being mostly facetious.  At some level, it is similar - A portion of property taxes is put towards the school systems.  If I don't have children, I'm contributing to something that benefits society, but I get no direct benefit from.  This is to some extent the argument I see against the fundamentals of Obamacare.

WHY CAN'T I HAVE A PROPERTY TAX PLAN THAT EXCLUDES WHAT I DON'T USE!?!?!  ESPECIALLY WHEN I LIVE IN A NEIGHBOURHOOD WHERE TRUANCY AND FAILURE RATES ARE SO HIGH!  CLEARLY NOT DOLLARS USED WISELY.

I'm not saying the education system doesn't GET the money, but (to use the healthcare arguments I see/hear) shouldn't the person that has 5 kids be paying more than the person who has zero kids?

As I said, I was being mostly facetious... this need not turn into our usual back and forth point/counter-point.

Well, I'm allowed to comment, facetiousness or not. 
 
Second, I'm not really arguing with you per se.   But you have a factual error that is very common but that needs to be addressed:  you DO get a direct, tangible, monetary benefit from the property tax dollars you pay that go to education, regardless of whether you have children in that school system.  You do NOT get the same level of direct, tangible monetary benefit from the tax dollars that go to healthcare.  This isn't opinion, this isn't spin, this is documentable FACT.   (one example: https://www.biggerpockets.com/renewsblog/2011/04/06/school-districts-real-estate-prices/   "One of the most interesting takeaways from this research was the profound effect that a quality school district can have on the housing values in the surrounding community."  Second example: https://www.realtor.com/advice/buy/the-right-school-district-how-much-do-schools-affect-real-estate-prices/  "Half of the home-buying population is willing to pay more than their intended budget to get into the right school district, and more than half would give up other amenities.")
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: jingle.boy on September 01, 2017, 11:44:38 AM
Fair points all around Stadler.  Let me be a little more explicit then on the matter - with no kids in the system, people don't get a direct benefit by consuming the precise service the distribution of funds provides for.  Man I hope I've worded that explicitly enough. 

By the same token, people get a direct benefit of health insurance, whether they consume it or not.  By allowing for affordable healthcare, it's plausible that many people have friends/family/co-workers who can consume the service that is being paid for even if one doesn't actually consume it.

Look, my comment wasn't meant as an absolutely flawless and perfect comparison.  There are some similarities, and I was just poking a little fun at the fact that education contributions by property taxes are commonly accepted.  Imagine this was something just introduced today - a property tax increase/levy that went towards public education.  People without children in the system would lose their shit, and I'd wager everything I've ever owned that the would never buy into the argument that 'it will increase your property values'.

Enough of the digression though, this thread is supposed to be about the benefits, and pride, of home ownership.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Stadler on September 01, 2017, 12:13:22 PM
Fair points all around Stadler.  Let me be a little more explicit then on the matter - with no kids in the system, people don't get a direct benefit by consuming the precise service the distribution of funds provides for.  Man I hope I've worded that explicitly enough. 

By the same token, people get a direct benefit of health insurance, whether they consume it or not.  By allowing for affordable healthcare, it's plausible that many people have friends/family/co-workers who can consume the service that is being paid for even if one doesn't actually consume it.

Look, my comment wasn't meant as an absolutely flawless and perfect comparison.  There are some similarities, and I was just poking a little fun at the fact that education contributions by property taxes are commonly accepted.  Imagine this was something just introduced today - a property tax increase/levy that went towards public education.  People without children in the system would lose their shit, and I'd wager everything I've ever owned that the would never buy into the argument that 'it will increase your property values'.

It came off as a snarky comment to those that have the temerity to call out healthcare for the masses.  As for the "people without children... " comment, maybe you'd win that wager, maybe not, but it would TOTALLY be based on those people not having the first clue about how the system they're complaining about works.   So on that level, I guess you're right, because most of the people commenting either way on healthcare (pro or con) don't have the first clue how it actually works. 

Quote
Enough of the digression though, this thread is supposed to be about the benefits, and pride, of home ownership.

I think it's directly relevant to the topic.   It IS a benefit of homeownership, seeing your investment grow.  Seeing value created.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Cool Chris on September 01, 2017, 01:08:57 PM
Sounds like my house, 1000 sqft, 6600 in taxes, central jersey  :lol

Goddamn I thought the Seattle area had high property taxes. I am about 15 mi outside of that pit and my taxes are around $4,000 for my 1900 sq ft house. But we also have 10% sales tax, and no state income tax. Wonder how that swings the pendulum.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Dellers on September 02, 2017, 01:42:26 AM
Now I feel pretty good living in Norway and in a municipality with no property taxes. Sounds like you guys pay up to 50% of the amount I pay down on my apartment each year just in taxes. Sure, we may have more VAT and such here, but I don't see that making up for that much in property taxes. I know Norway is known for being expensive, but depending on where you live the US is often (significantly) more expensive. It's also more expensive to go on holidays in the US than here, at least lately.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: King Postwhore on September 02, 2017, 08:40:04 AM
Coming home to this view of your yard.  This is a benefit for your soul.

(https://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/550x3500q90/923/CYV6z9.jpg) (https://imageshack.com/f/pnCYV6z9j)
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: gmillerdrake on September 02, 2017, 08:43:02 AM
3200 Sq. Ft.......$4600 taxes. After reading some of these past few posts I feel a bit better about the $4600. That's pretty high considering 'where' I live. It's a pretty rural county but the subdivisions parcel of land that we moved into is one of the higher taxed parcels around.

I just look at it as 'oh well'....it's not like I have the option of not paying them....I mean I guess I could not pay them but I don't feel like dealing with the consequences of that. it is what it is....
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: King Postwhore on September 02, 2017, 08:48:24 AM
I have .98 acres and my taxes are about $4200.00.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: ReaperKK on September 10, 2017, 04:27:27 PM
I haven't read the entire thread but we just built our house and got our property tax bill, we pay $2600 for .40 of an acre.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Podaar on September 11, 2017, 08:22:00 AM
Gary,

Love the patio!

I spent a good portion of my summer covering my old cement patio with travertine tile.

Before:
(https://scontent.fsnc1-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/20479984_10213923419628712_3802752291586899858_n.jpg?oh=b773c3435908e3bd824e9851e6f74699&oe=5A1ACC59)

After:
(https://scontent.fsnc1-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/20621937_10213923419668713_2605180362660830355_n.jpg?oh=c90a5d0a2d15b4b79634c6abb6e606d1&oe=5A60E973)
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: cramx3 on September 11, 2017, 10:02:22 AM
That looks nice, I just got a big chiminea from a family friend giving it away that I need to find a spot for
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: gmillerdrake on September 11, 2017, 12:08:32 PM
Gregg....that is awesome!! The tile looks great and I especially like the half privacy/lattice/planter wall. Had thought of trying something similar on the one side of our patio but opted to go with planting some privacy bushes instead.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: ReaperKK on September 11, 2017, 07:37:55 PM
That's really awesome! I'm hoping we can start at patio next spring.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Podaar on September 12, 2017, 08:20:20 AM
Gregg....that is awesome!! The tile looks great and I especially like the half privacy/lattice/planter wall. Had thought of trying something similar on the one side of our patio but opted to go with planting some privacy bushes instead.

I had the pergola built about six years ago and then I built the planter that same summer. If you ever decide to build one yourself, talk with me. During the intervening years, I learned quite a bit on what not to do. Before we started in on tiling the patio, I spent a few weekends fixing structural weakness in the planter box. It would have been a lot easier to build it right the first time if I'd known what was going to happen over the years.

Privacy bushes are a great idea but you have to be committed to maintaining them. I put up the lattice to grow wisteria over it because I'm a lazy bitch.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: gmillerdrake on September 12, 2017, 09:20:01 AM
Gregg....that is awesome!! The tile looks great and I especially like the half privacy/lattice/planter wall. Had thought of trying something similar on the one side of our patio but opted to go with planting some privacy bushes instead.

I had the pergola built about six years ago and then I built the planter that same summer. If you ever decide to build one yourself, talk with me. During the intervening years, I learned quite a bit on what not to do. Before we started in on tiling the patio, I spent a few weekends fixing structural weakness in the planter box. It would have been a lot easier to build it right the first time if I'd known what was going to happen over the years.

Privacy bushes are a great idea but you have to be committed to maintaining them. I put up the lattice to grow wisteria over it because I'm a lazy bitch.


One Idea I had that I abandoned fearing it may look gaughty was in lieu of the half wall separating my yard from my neighbors I'd use a wood pergula to do so. Was going to go with stamped concrete as well with this option....See these drawings I worked up:

Plan View:

(https://i.imgur.com/Qjq7E9F.png)

Elevation View:

(https://i.imgur.com/lKwSzI1.png)


But, materials alone for that were around $1500 and even though I have a good friend who is a Union Carpenter who said he and a laborer could build it for me with minimal $$ for labor....that'd still have been another $1000-1500. Ultimately I decided to go with the more traditional and 'safe' look of the half wall and plants.


Still need to mulch and put some finishing touches on landscaping but I got them planted

(https://i.imgur.com/T49Mb8G.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/OMWt2Ut.jpg)

And we picked up some end of season outdoor patio furniture as well....'regular' price $1100 which we ended up getting for $400.

(https://i.imgur.com/818qTb2.jpg)

So, I'll try to continue to grow the grass back out with seed....it's coming in good (this pic is a week old) but if it isn't looking good next spring I'll get a pallet of sod and call it even.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Podaar on September 12, 2017, 12:02:10 PM
Looking great!! The evergreens are a nice choice since they're not likely to require much trimming.

I like your pergola design...I probably would have gone with that were I in your shoes. I like as much privacy as I can get away with so that when I'm reading the paper in the morning I can have my robe recklessly thrown open. Ventilation, you understand. Although, it does look like the pergola does quite close to your property line which could cause you difficulties later.

Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: jingle.boy on September 17, 2017, 08:44:36 AM
Late to say this...

Gregg....that is awesome!!

Gary... that patio is sweet.  Personally, I'd try and stick it out with soil/seed.  Sod can be a bitch to take, and if it doesn't, you're pooched for a real long time.  For us, the best time to lay it was in the late fall (at least that's the time here) ... when the over-night is really cool, and there's dew on the sod every single morning.  We did that when we dug up part of our backyard, and the sod took beautifully.  Otherwise, it's a bitch to try and keep it constantly moist.  Of course, it also depends on how the sun moves across your yard - our backyard is relatively shady in the fall.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: King Postwhore on September 17, 2017, 09:10:09 AM
Yeah I'm against sod. you're better off renting an aerator in this rolling it around the area seed and then continually make sure that you're keeping it watered and I'll grow in
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Phoenix87x on September 17, 2017, 02:02:39 PM
I am currently looking for my first place.

Its just me, so at this point I do not not a strait up house. But what do you guys think about condo vs townhouse. Pros? Cons?
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: ReaperKK on September 17, 2017, 02:26:54 PM
If it was just me living alone (no animals or anything like that) I could see myself in a townhome. It'd save so much on the upkeep

There is something nice about having a house though. I remember living in my apartment and hearing all kinds of noises around me and now that I hear nothing but silence it'd be hard to go back.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: cramx3 on September 18, 2017, 01:48:45 PM
I am currently looking for my first place.

Its just me, so at this point I do not not a strait up house. But what do you guys think about condo vs townhouse. Pros? Cons?

You'll be paying an association fee which kind of sucks but has some benefits.  For one, you won't have to worry about the upkeep up the lawn and maybe get access to some shared facilities.  The negative is the rate is not negotiable, you'll be paying it monthly and you may be able to do everything they offer for you for cheaper on your own if you were able to.  For me, when I was looking between condos/townhouse/houses, the fees for a condo/townhouse is what really weighed negatively for me.  Some were up to 300 a month! No thanks.  However you'll have that for a condo or townhouse so one big difference between those two is how close do you like your neighbors?  A townhouse may come with a backyard/private garage and some more separation from your neighbors.
Title: Re: I bought a home
Post by: Phoenix87x on January 29, 2018, 06:02:00 AM
Well, at age 30 I have finally bought my own home. Its been quite a whirlwind of paper work and moving and this and that. But I'm almost fully moved in at this point and I couldn't be happier. It is soooo nice to have your own place. Its a one bedroom, one bath condo that I got for $90,000   I love it.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: gmillerdrake on January 29, 2018, 06:32:55 AM
Congrats! That’s exciting.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: jingle.boy on January 29, 2018, 07:22:09 AM
Congrats! That’s exciting.

+1.  Good on ya Phoenix.  How many square feet out of curiousity?
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: kaos2900 on January 29, 2018, 07:28:04 AM
We're getting ready to put an offer in on our next, and probably last, house. Interesting timing for this thread to get bumped.   :biggrin:
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Phoenix87x on January 29, 2018, 07:53:20 AM
Congrats! That’s exciting.

+1.  Good on ya Phoenix.  How many square feet out of curiousity?

I think its like 664. When I get some time, I'll post some pics
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: lordxizor on January 29, 2018, 07:53:24 AM
I've been getting new siding and got a new roof last fall due to a hail storm last summer. What a colossal pain in the ass. Insurance is covering the majority of the cost, but we're upgrading the siding and doing a few other things that aren't covered. We've had to unexpectedly replace two doors that had water damage that won't be covered by insurance. I have the cash to cover the cost, but it's just a pain. Sometimes I really miss renting. Just call up the landlord and he'll take care of everything. Home ownership definitely has it's advantages, but I'm really on the fence about whether it's worth it. Financially it's definitely not as clear cut as people make you thing with "throwing your money away every month renting".
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: cramx3 on January 29, 2018, 08:40:43 AM
There's definitely ups and downs to both owning and renting.  Sometimes I wish I was renting as well to just call the landlord for issues that I now have to deal with (aka spend money on).  But, I think about all the positives and so far for me, it's still been a clear winner to own.  But I also have no plans on leaving, I think if I had thoughts about moving again, I'd probably just stick to renting.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Chino on January 29, 2018, 08:47:09 AM
My biggest gripe with home owning is the fall cleanup. It takes a solid 3 or 4 saturdays in the fall, and at least 2 more come spring.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: cramx3 on January 29, 2018, 08:51:40 AM
I'm guessing you have lots of trees?  I have not done a fall clean up ever since living in my house.  Just two trees (one small, one larger) on my property and it seems I never have have a leaf problem.  Some overgrown shrouds I can trim for an afternoon in the spring and I pay someone to mow/edge my lawn.  I used to do that myself, but after having my mower and trimmer both break multiple times, I just gave up and took the easy route.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Chino on January 29, 2018, 08:55:31 AM
I'm guessing you have lots of trees?  I have not done a fall clean up ever since living in my house.  Just two trees (one small, one larger) on my property and it seems I never have have a leaf problem.  Some overgrown shrouds I can trim for an afternoon in the spring and I pay someone to mow/edge my lawn.  I used to do that myself, but after having my mower and trimmer both break multiple times, I just gave up and took the easy route.

I live on a small lot (.4 acres) and I have 9 oak trees on my property that are all 80+ years old. The amount of leaves they dump is truly rage inducing. This year I had my backpack leaf blower in one had and a handheld blower in the other. The biggest problem is that they hold onto their leaves for a really long time. It always snows before all the leaves fall off, and then I have to wait until spring to finish cleaning up.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: jingle.boy on January 29, 2018, 09:01:46 AM
I've been getting new siding and got a new roof last fall due to a hail storm last summer. What a colossal pain in the ass. Insurance is covering the majority of the cost, but we're upgrading the siding and doing a few other things that aren't covered. We've had to unexpectedly replace two doors that had water damage that won't be covered by insurance. I have the cash to cover the cost, but it's just a pain. Sometimes I really miss renting. Just call up the landlord and he'll take care of everything. Home ownership definitely has it's advantages, but I'm really on the fence about whether it's worth it. Financially it's definitely not as clear cut as people make you thing with "throwing your money away every month renting".

Really surprised to hear this - especially the financial thing.  Given the real estate market, owning vs renting is a no-brainer to me... especially since I now own my home.  No monthly payment, and I have a 6 figure asset after 20 years of paying.  If I had been renting, I'd have no asset and still be making monthly payments.  Considering my house has gone up in value by about 2.5x, it's a no-brainer.  As a long-term investment, there isn't much more of a sure thing than property (by-and-large)

@ Chino... I hear ya.  I don't have a lot now, but as a kid/teenager I grew up in a town called Oakville - and we backed on to a ravine.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Chino on January 29, 2018, 09:05:58 AM
I've been getting new siding and got a new roof last fall due to a hail storm last summer. What a colossal pain in the ass. Insurance is covering the majority of the cost, but we're upgrading the siding and doing a few other things that aren't covered. We've had to unexpectedly replace two doors that had water damage that won't be covered by insurance. I have the cash to cover the cost, but it's just a pain. Sometimes I really miss renting. Just call up the landlord and he'll take care of everything. Home ownership definitely has it's advantages, but I'm really on the fence about whether it's worth it. Financially it's definitely not as clear cut as people make you thing with "throwing your money away every month renting".

Really surprised to hear this - especially the financial thing.  Given the real estate market, owning vs renting is a no-brainer to me... especially since I now own my home.  No monthly payment, and I have a 6 figure asset after 20 years of paying.  If I had been renting, I'd have no asset and still be making monthly payments.  Considering my house has gone up in value by about 2.5x, it's a no-brainer.  As a long-term investment, there isn't much more of a sure thing than property (by-and-large)

@ Chino... I hear ya.  I don't have a lot now, but as a kid/teenager I grew up in a town called Oakville - and we backed on to a ravine.

Oakville CT?
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: cramx3 on January 29, 2018, 09:10:33 AM
Yea, that does sound miserable (cleaning up the leafs that is).

And damn Jingle, must be nice to free yourself from the mortgage. 

According to zillow, my house is worth 20% more than what I paid for it over the course of 4.5 years living there.  I only have a few investments, but my house is definitely one of them that really works well for me and my lifestyle.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: jingle.boy on January 29, 2018, 09:22:14 AM
Oakville CT?

No... never lived in the US.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Chino on January 29, 2018, 09:22:41 AM
Yea, that does sound miserable (cleaning up the leafs that is).

And damn Jingle, must be nice to free yourself from the mortgage. 

According to zillow, my house is worth 20% more than what I paid for it over the course of 4.5 years living there.  I only have a few investments, but my house is definitely one of them that really works well for me and my lifestyle.

My house was re-appraised by the city and is worth 15%more than it was this time last year. I'm kind of pissed about it because that's going to raise my taxes. I would challenge it, but then they're going to have to come into my house and do a more formal inspection. There are things in my house that can not be seen by any government employee.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: cramx3 on January 29, 2018, 09:27:58 AM
I was re-appraised at 10% more about 2 years ago (when I refinanced to get my ex off the deed) which did raise my taxes, but not a whole lot.  I have that same mentality though, I don't want them snooping around because I made my basement livable since then which would apparently raise my taxes, also other things...
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Stadler on January 29, 2018, 09:34:19 AM
Yea, that does sound miserable (cleaning up the leafs that is).

And damn Jingle, must be nice to free yourself from the mortgage. 

According to zillow, my house is worth 20% more than what I paid for it over the course of 4.5 years living there.  I only have a few investments, but my house is definitely one of them that really works well for me and my lifestyle.

My house was re-appraised by the city and is worth 15%more than it was this time last year. I'm kind of pissed about it because that's going to raise my taxes. I would challenge it, but then they're going to have to come into my house and do a more formal inspection. There are things in my house that can not be seen by any government employee.

"Lettuce".  Yes.  :)
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: jingle.boy on January 29, 2018, 09:35:30 AM
Yea, that does sound miserable (cleaning up the leafs that is).

And damn Jingle, must be nice to free yourself from the mortgage. 

According to zillow, my house is worth 20% more than what I paid for it over the course of 4.5 years living there.  I only have a few investments, but my house is definitely one of them that really works well for me and my lifestyle.

My house was re-appraised by the city and is worth 15%more than it was this time last year. I'm kind of pissed about it because that's going to raise my taxes. I would challenge it, but then they're going to have to come into my house and do a more formal inspection. There are things in my house that can not be seen by any government employee.

Ruffage?

Edit... Ninja'd.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: lordxizor on January 29, 2018, 09:58:36 AM
Really surprised to hear this - especially the financial thing.  Given the real estate market, owning vs renting is a no-brainer to me... especially since I now own my home.  No monthly payment, and I have a 6 figure asset after 20 years of paying.  If I had been renting, I'd have no asset and still be making monthly payments.  Considering my house has gone up in value by about 2.5x, it's a no-brainer.  As a long-term investment, there isn't much more of a sure thing than property (by-and-large)
Historically, real estate values pretty much match inflation, so while things are good now, they won't be forever. I'm paying 3.375% interest on a home that I can expect to gain about 3% a year on average in value over the next 30 years. Add in the maintenance costs, taxes, insurance, upgrades, etc, and it's easy to see why homes are not as great an investment as people want you to think they are.

On my ~$250k home, I will pay about $600k in mortgage, taxes, insurance, etc (not including annual increases in taxes and insurance which of course will happen). I will also put in about 1% of the value of the home annually for maintenance, repairs, upgrades, etc. every year on average, so I will spend another $120,000 on that over 30 years (which I think is probably low given the cost of a new roof or siding). So now I've paid at least $720k for a house that I can expect to be worth about $600k in 30 years if I get average property value increases. By any other investment standards, I've lost money on my investment. But I need a place to live, and ending up with $600k in value in my home isn't too shabby either.

Which isn't to say it's not the right decision for a lot of other reasons. You'll probably come out ahead buying over renting and investing the difference in the stock market (which hardly anyone would do anyway) unless rentals are really cheap in your area or you plan on moving a lot. But I'm hesitant to say a home is a good investment. It's necessary to have a place to live and buying can be the better option, but it's not for everyone.

My math or some of the assumptions may be off by a bit, but the point remains. You'll likely get less out of your house than you put in it over the long term.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: cramx3 on January 29, 2018, 10:04:22 AM
unless rentals are really cheap in your area or you plan on moving a lot

This pretty much nails it for me.  Renting near me is not cheap at all, you will pay more and get less than my house.  I know some paying the same rent per month (~2k) which is the cost of my mortage (interest and insurance included) and they get a small room in a crappy area, where as I have a house (my house is small, so not much more room than an apartment) with a backyard driveway and privacy.  It's kind of a no brainer in my area if you plan on sticking around for at least 5 years.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Chino on January 29, 2018, 10:18:02 AM
Really surprised to hear this - especially the financial thing.  Given the real estate market, owning vs renting is a no-brainer to me... especially since I now own my home.  No monthly payment, and I have a 6 figure asset after 20 years of paying.  If I had been renting, I'd have no asset and still be making monthly payments.  Considering my house has gone up in value by about 2.5x, it's a no-brainer.  As a long-term investment, there isn't much more of a sure thing than property (by-and-large)
Historically, real estate values pretty much match inflation, so while things are good now, they won't be forever. I'm paying 3.375% interest on a home that I can expect to gain about 3% a year on average in value over the next 30 years. Add in the maintenance costs, taxes, insurance, upgrades, etc, and it's easy to see why homes are not as great an investment as people want you to think they are.

On my ~$250k home, I will pay about $600k in mortgage, taxes, insurance, etc (not including annual increases in taxes and insurance which of course will happen). I will also put in about 1% of the value of the home annually for maintenance, repairs, upgrades, etc. every year on average, so I will spend another $120,000 on that over 30 years (which I think is probably low given the cost of a new roof or siding). So now I've paid at least $720k for a house that I can expect to be worth about $600k in 30 years if I get average property value increases. By any other investment standards, I've lost money on my investment. But I need a place to live, and ending up with $600k in value in my home isn't too shabby either.

Which isn't to say it's not the right decision for a lot of other reasons. You'll probably come out ahead buying over renting and investing the difference in the stock market (which hardly anyone would do anyway) unless rentals are really cheap in your area or you plan on moving a lot. But I'm hesitant to say a home is a good investment. It's necessary to have a place to live and buying can be the better option, but it's not for everyone.

My math or some of the assumptions may be off by a bit, but the point remains. You'll likely get less out of your house than you put in it over the long term.

The biggest benefit to having your own home vs renting is your ability to take out a home equity line of credit. My father did that for mine and my sister's college education. We paid him monthly as we would a bank, but we were only paying 3.25% interest on his money vs whatever the rate on the student loans were (I think it was around 7%). 
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Stadler on January 29, 2018, 10:30:54 AM
Really surprised to hear this - especially the financial thing.  Given the real estate market, owning vs renting is a no-brainer to me... especially since I now own my home.  No monthly payment, and I have a 6 figure asset after 20 years of paying.  If I had been renting, I'd have no asset and still be making monthly payments.  Considering my house has gone up in value by about 2.5x, it's a no-brainer.  As a long-term investment, there isn't much more of a sure thing than property (by-and-large)
Historically, real estate values pretty much match inflation, so while things are good now, they won't be forever. I'm paying 3.375% interest on a home that I can expect to gain about 3% a year on average in value over the next 30 years. Add in the maintenance costs, taxes, insurance, upgrades, etc, and it's easy to see why homes are not as great an investment as people want you to think they are.

On my ~$250k home, I will pay about $600k in mortgage, taxes, insurance, etc (not including annual increases in taxes and insurance which of course will happen). I will also put in about 1% of the value of the home annually for maintenance, repairs, upgrades, etc. every year on average, so I will spend another $120,000 on that over 30 years (which I think is probably low given the cost of a new roof or siding). So now I've paid at least $720k for a house that I can expect to be worth about $600k in 30 years if I get average property value increases. By any other investment standards, I've lost money on my investment. But I need a place to live, and ending up with $600k in value in my home isn't too shabby either.

Which isn't to say it's not the right decision for a lot of other reasons. You'll probably come out ahead buying over renting and investing the difference in the stock market (which hardly anyone would do anyway) unless rentals are really cheap in your area or you plan on moving a lot. But I'm hesitant to say a home is a good investment. It's necessary to have a place to live and buying can be the better option, but it's not for everyone.

My math or some of the assumptions may be off by a bit, but the point remains. You'll likely get less out of your house than you put in it over the long term.

You've ignored several plusses, though.  You didn't mention the tax write-off for interest, taxes and insurance.  You didn't mention the value created by having the loan (in the form of a higher credit score - all things being equal) that generally gets you better interest rates elsewhere.   You are also playing a little fast and loose with the time value of money; I think you'd be surprised at how that evens out the investment over time.

I think these discussions also under sell the incremental "over-payment" that most leases have;  I own two houses, and the second was a rental for which I charged $2000 a month, for a house for which I paid about $1600 a month in mortgage.   Fine for me, but from the perspective of the renter, he/they were paying a 25% premium per square foot for their living space.   I can't look you in the eye and say I spent the same level of diligence procuring services that were passed on to the tenant as I did (or do) for services that I absorb (for example, at my own home).   I shovel my own snow, hell or high water, because I'm healthy and able and proud.   I pay a guy to plow the driveway at the rental, at the expense of the tenant.   
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: lordxizor on January 29, 2018, 10:43:15 AM
Yeah, I wasn't intending to catch every plus or minus or trying to be tremendously accurate with the math. And the time value of money is something that seems like an accounting trick to me, but I get it's valuable if you know the details of it. Just trying to point out that buying isn't the slam dunk investment we're frequently lead to believe it is.

And the tax write-off is frequently overblown since really it's only the interest we pay above the standard deduction that saves us any money, which for me is actually nothing since my interest is below the standard deduction. But it is a nice perk if you get above it.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: jingle.boy on January 29, 2018, 10:57:48 AM
I don't know anywhere or any situation where renting would be less expensive (monthly) than buying.  SOMEONE owns the house/property, and except in very rare circumstances, isn't in the renting game to lose money.  Monthly rent incorporates mortgage, insurance, property taxes, and variable expenses on the behalf of the landlord + income for the landlord.  Other than situations where the landlord has already paid off the mortgage, I can't see any situation where rent would be cheaper than owning.  Apartments aside, but it's not an apples-to-apples comparison.

The real rub in home ownership is coming up with the down-payment.  If banks were willing to lend 100% of the purchase price, why would anyone rent?
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: lordxizor on January 29, 2018, 11:09:45 AM
The fees you pay up front when you buy and what you pay the realtor when you sell will quickly eat up any gains if you're living in the house for less than 5 years. So that's one reason. There are places in the country where it's difficult to sell a home, so that would be another reason if you don't want to be tied down.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: cramx3 on January 29, 2018, 11:11:09 AM
The real rub in home ownership is coming up with the down-payment.  If banks were willing to lend 100% of the purchase price, why would anyone rent?

Yea, and that's what FHA loans are for if you haven't saved up the amount yet can show you have the income to make the monthly payments.  I had to do this route after I refinanced because I had to buy out my ex and therefore didn't have any cash to put into the refinance at the time (I practically emptied my bank account during this break up).  The FHA loan came at a cost of monthly mortgage insurance, but even that added it's still cheaper than a rental.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Chino on January 29, 2018, 11:12:42 AM
The real rub in home ownership is coming up with the down-payment.  If banks were willing to lend 100% of the purchase price, why would anyone rent?

Yea, and that's what FHA loans are for if you haven't saved up the amount yet can show you have the income to make the monthly payments.  I had to do this route after I refinanced because I had to buy out my ex and therefore didn't have any cash to put into the refinance at the time (I practically emptied my bank account during this break up).  The FHA loan came at a cost of monthly mortgage insurance, but even that added it's still cheaper than a rental.

I have to pay $157 a month in mortgage insurance (I only put 3.5% down on the house). Sucks.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: lordxizor on January 29, 2018, 11:15:38 AM
We pay PMI too and it does suck. We made a calculated decision to buy 3 years ago rather than wait until we had 20 percent saved. Given that interest rates have gone up and home values have gone up a lot in that time it looks right now like we made the right decision. But I still hate paying that PMI.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: gmillerdrake on January 29, 2018, 11:25:50 AM
We bought our PMI out for $4800 when we first financed. Not a good idea if you're planning to move within 5-7 years but we knew we'd be here for some time so it was worth it. We had some extra savings and took a calculated risk. 'Saved' us $140 a month on our mortgage bill.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: lordxizor on January 29, 2018, 11:27:17 AM
We bought our PMI out for $4800 when we first financed. Not a good idea if you're planning to move within 5-7 years but we knew we'd be here for some time so it was worth it. We had some extra savings and took a calculated risk. 'Saved' us $140 a month on our mortgage bill.
They never mentioned that as an option when we bought. I would have considered it.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Chino on January 29, 2018, 11:36:02 AM
We bought our PMI out for $4800 when we first financed. Not a good idea if you're planning to move within 5-7 years but we knew we'd be here for some time so it was worth it. We had some extra savings and took a calculated risk. 'Saved' us $140 a month on our mortgage bill.

Why would it have been a bad idea if you were to move within 5-7 years ?
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: cramx3 on January 29, 2018, 11:42:56 AM
Closing costs and PMI costs add up to eat any value you might have earned I guess, maybe even eats into it.  I was told not to do an FHA loan if you plan on moving in 5 years.  I live closer to the house I grew up in than anyone else in my family, staying here for the long term is an easy decision for me.  I absolutely hate the moving process too, I could honestly see myself living in my small house till I die.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: jingle.boy on January 29, 2018, 11:50:59 AM
Ok guys... help this Canuck(lehead).  What is PMI and FHA?
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Chino on January 29, 2018, 11:53:27 AM
Closing costs and PMI costs add up to eat any value you might have earned I guess, maybe even eats into it.  I was told not to do an FHA loan if you plan on moving in 5 years.  I live closer to the house I grew up in than anyone else in my family, staying here for the long term is an easy decision for me.  I absolutely hate the moving process too, I could honestly see myself living in my small house till I die.

I have no problem with a small house, at all. That might change when kids enter the mix. The things I do care about though are the size of my yard (It's been a dream of mine to have a private RC track) and a basement with enough open space to have a nice woodshop. Minus the lot I'm on, I think my house is a perfect size. 1800 square feet with 2 full baths, a walk in attic, and a basement that's divided up into 4 different rooms (1 rec, 1 laundry, 2 storage). It's got a screened/glassed in porch and a kitchen that's full of high end appliances with gas and a range that vents outside (came with the house). I can't ask for much else. If I could pick up my house and dump it on another plot of land, I'd do it in a heartbeat.

That's with V living with me though. If it was just me, I'd be cool with like 1000 square feet.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: King Postwhore on January 29, 2018, 11:56:38 AM
PMI is a penalty you pay for not having a % as a down payment when buying a house.  I put down $11,000 when I bought my house, I needed 20% to not get charged the PMI which was $20,000 so i had to pay this tax.  It's bullshit that they get to do this but they do.  My PMI is up in 6 months and I will have an extra $81.00 a month in out pockets.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Grappler on January 29, 2018, 12:03:44 PM
Ok guys... help this Canuck(lehead).  What is PMI and FHA?

Like King said - it's an insurance policy that the bank takes out if you don't put down a high enough percentage when you buy a house.  Should you fail to repay the loan (foreclose), the bank is paid off.  The premium for the insurance is passed off onto the home buyer.  So you're paying a monthly premium for insurance that does not pay out to you at all.  It's total bullshit.

I paid PMI mine for five years, then refinanced once we paid down our principal enough and built up some equity.  We received a lower interest rate and the bank eliminated the $91 PMI premium.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: cramx3 on January 29, 2018, 12:05:00 PM
PMI is a penalty you pay for not having a % as a down payment when buying a house.  I put down $11,000 when I bought my house, I needed 20% to not get charged the PMI which was $20,000 so i had to pay this tax.  It's bullshit that they get to do this but they do.  My PMI is up in 6 months and I will have an extra $81.00 a month in out pockets.

I'm not sure I agree with you on the bullshit part of this.  The PMI is not a tax, it's insurance from the lender that we pay so they feel comfortable giving a loan of money that we, at that point, showed we are not able to pay right then.  I think it's a fair way to get people to buy houses who otherwise would not have been able to.  LIke you said, it goes away once you get to 20%.  I'd be pissed if they kept it throughout the life of the loan.  I got another couple years before I reach that point, then $150 off my tab each month.

And Chino, I hear ya about the family part.   As a single guy (my brother lives with me) I have no issue with the small house that requires small maintenance.  I think I could only have one kid in this house before I'd want to move (its only 2 bedroom and 1.5 bath).  I just think it's more like I have zero kids than I have 2 kids hence why I can realistically see myself in the same spot for the remainder of my life.  I do have nice space in my basement though.  Honestly have put serious thought into building my laundry room into a studio for gaming and live streaming (aka going the full green screen and lighting route).  It's nice to have these options.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Chino on January 29, 2018, 12:07:37 PM
PMI is a penalty you pay for not having a % as a down payment when buying a house.  I put down $11,000 when I bought my house, I needed 20% to not get charged the PMI which was $20,000 so i had to pay this tax.  It's bullshit that they get to do this but they do.  My PMI is up in 6 months and I will have an extra $81.00 a month in out pockets.

I'm not sure I agree with you on the bullshit part of this.  The PMI is not a tax, it's insurance from the lender that we pay so they feel comfortable giving a loan of money that we, at that point, showed we are not able to pay right then.  I think it's a fair way to get people to buy houses who otherwise would not have been able to.  LIke you said, it goes away once you get to 20%.  I'd be pissed if they kept it throughout the life of the loan.  I got another couple years before I reach that point, then $150 off my tab each month.

And Chino, I hear ya about the family part.   As a single guy (my brother lives with me) I have no issue with the small house that requires small maintenance.  I think I could only have one kid in this house before I'd want to move (its only 2 bedroom and 1.5 bath).  I just think it's more like I have zero kids than I have 2 kids hence why I can realistically see myself in the same spot for the remainder of my life. I do have nice space in my basement though.  Honestly have put serious thought into building my laundry room into a studio for gaming and live streaming (aka going the full green screen and lighting route).  It's nice to have these options.

That to me is one of the main perks in buying a house vs renting. Want to build a custom studio in your house? Go for it. Want to grow a shitload of lettuce? Have at it. Want to put 100 holes in the walls? Knock yourself out.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Stadler on January 29, 2018, 12:12:18 PM
We bought our PMI out for $4800 when we first financed. Not a good idea if you're planning to move within 5-7 years but we knew we'd be here for some time so it was worth it. We had some extra savings and took a calculated risk. 'Saved' us $140 a month on our mortgage bill.

Why would it have been a bad idea if you were to move within 5-7 years ?

That cash - that $4800 - operates essentially as an additional deposit at that point, whereas the PMI is for all intents and purposes "amortized" across the life of the loan (with FHA, it does NOT drop off automatically when the loan to value ration exceeds 80%, like with other loans).   
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Stadler on January 29, 2018, 12:14:59 PM
PMI is a penalty you pay for not having a % as a down payment when buying a house.  I put down $11,000 when I bought my house, I needed 20% to not get charged the PMI which was $20,000 so i had to pay this tax.  It's bullshit that they get to do this but they do.  My PMI is up in 6 months and I will have an extra $81.00 a month in out pockets.

I'm not sure I agree with you on the bullshit part of this.  The PMI is not a tax, it's insurance from the lender that we pay so they feel comfortable giving a loan of money that we, at that point, showed we are not able to pay right then.  I think it's a fair way to get people to buy houses who otherwise would not have been able to.  LIke you said, it goes away once you get to 20%.  I'd be pissed if they kept it throughout the life of the loan.  I got another couple years before I reach that point, then $150 off my tab each month.

And Chino, I hear ya about the family part.   As a single guy (my brother lives with me) I have no issue with the small house that requires small maintenance.  I think I could only have one kid in this house before I'd want to move (its only 2 bedroom and 1.5 bath).  I just think it's more like I have zero kids than I have 2 kids hence why I can realistically see myself in the same spot for the remainder of my life. I do have nice space in my basement though.  Honestly have put serious thought into building my laundry room into a studio for gaming and live streaming (aka going the full green screen and lighting route).  It's nice to have these options.

That to me is one of the main perks in buying a house vs renting. Want to build a custom studio in your house? Go for it. Want to grow a shitload of lettuce? Have at it. Want to put 100 holes in the walls? Knock yourself out.

I've lived in rentals where I couldn't even paint the walls if I wanted to.   Fuck that.  I run wires (surround sound), I paint, I've done all kinds of shit in all the houses I've lived in.   
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Stadler on January 29, 2018, 12:18:57 PM
Ok guys... help this Canuck(lehead).  What is PMI and FHA?

PMI is "private mortgage insurance" and like Cram said, it's not a penalty (though it has the perception of penalizing those that can't put down more than 20% in a deposit), but an insurance policy to protect the lender from foreclosure when the loan value is closer to the home value than 20%.   

FHA is the Federal Housing Authority, technically, but in the context of a "FHA loan" it's a loan that is backed, in part, by the FHA, so the lender assumes less risk and therefore can (presumably) give a better deal to the borrower.   It's basically a vehicle to get more people into homes they own.  I have an FHA loan, actually, and do pay PMI.   I will at some point refinance, but the numbers don't quite work for me at this point.   
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: jingle.boy on January 29, 2018, 12:24:45 PM
I figured that's what PMI was, but just wanted to be sure.  We have the same up here, from the gov't run CMHC (Canada Mortgage and Housing Corp).  I'm sure they do other shit, but no one seems to really know or care what.  Basically the same rules.  It's been so long since I had to pay for that, I forget if it was embedded in to the mortgage payment or not.

FHA.. pretty sure we have no such equivalent as it relates to loans/mortgages.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: lordxizor on January 29, 2018, 12:26:03 PM
I'm getting pretty close to 20% equity and would love to refinance to get rid of the PMI, but unfortunately interest rates have gone up enough that I'm not sure it will ever be worth it to refinance since the increased interest will offset the PMI savings. I'll look into it more in a year or so when I for sure have 20% equity. Interest rates were so damn low a few years ago that I may be stuck with PMI for quite a while.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Chino on January 29, 2018, 12:28:20 PM
I'm getting pretty close to 20% equity and would love to refinance to get rid of the PMI, but unfortunately interest rates have gone up enough that I'm not sure it will ever be worth it to refinance since the increased interest will offset the PMI savings. I'll look into it more in a year or so when I for sure have 20% equity. Interest rates were so damn low a few years ago that I may be stuck with PMI for quite a while.

This is my fear as well. I managed to get a 3.5% interest rate. Who knows when they'll be that low again.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: jingle.boy on January 29, 2018, 12:35:11 PM
This is my fear as well. I managed to get a 3.5% interest rate. Who knows when they'll be that low again.

After the next global financial meltdown?
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: gmillerdrake on January 29, 2018, 12:37:39 PM
We bought our PMI out for $4800 when we first financed. Not a good idea if you're planning to move within 5-7 years but we knew we'd be here for some time so it was worth it. We had some extra savings and took a calculated risk. 'Saved' us $140 a month on our mortgage bill.

Why would it have been a bad idea if you were to move within 5-7 years ?

Typically (depending on your payment) it takes 5-7 years to reach that 20% equity in your home when you can then cancel PMI. It's usually when you get to that 80% of the original appraised value when you don't need to pay PMI. 

We chose to pay that off up front banking on the fact we wouldn't move in that time frame you typically pay it down. If we do (we've been there 4 years now) we basically would have been out that money by moving/getting a new loan. It made sense for us because we weren't/aren't planning to move AND we were fortunate enough to have the $$ to pay it off.



Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Stadler on January 29, 2018, 12:38:53 PM
I'm getting pretty close to 20% equity and would love to refinance to get rid of the PMI, but unfortunately interest rates have gone up enough that I'm not sure it will ever be worth it to refinance since the increased interest will offset the PMI savings. I'll look into it more in a year or so when I for sure have 20% equity. Interest rates were so damn low a few years ago that I may be stuck with PMI for quite a while.

This is my fear as well. I managed to get a 3.5% interest rate. Who knows when they'll be that low again.

And you can write off both interest and PMI, so there's no benefit to be had there.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: King Postwhore on January 29, 2018, 12:47:51 PM
PMI is a penalty you pay for not having a % as a down payment when buying a house.  I put down $11,000 when I bought my house, I needed 20% to not get charged the PMI which was $20,000 so i had to pay this tax.  It's bullshit that they get to do this but they do.  My PMI is up in 6 months and I will have an extra $81.00 a month in out pockets.

I'm not sure I agree with you on the bullshit part of this.  The PMI is not a tax, it's insurance from the lender that we pay so they feel comfortable giving a loan of money that we, at that point, showed we are not able to pay right then.  I think it's a fair way to get people to buy houses who otherwise would not have been able to.  LIke you said, it goes away once you get to 20%.  I'd be pissed if they kept it throughout the life of the loan.  I got another couple years before I reach that point, then $150 off my tab each month.

And Chino, I hear ya about the family part.   As a single guy (my brother lives with me) I have no issue with the small house that requires small maintenance.  I think I could only have one kid in this house before I'd want to move (its only 2 bedroom and 1.5 bath).  I just think it's more like I have zero kids than I have 2 kids hence why I can realistically see myself in the same spot for the remainder of my life.  I do have nice space in my basement though.  Honestly have put serious thought into building my laundry room into a studio for gaming and live streaming (aka going the full green screen and lighting route).  It's nice to have these options.

Tell me how many people have 20% to get a house for 1st time buyers?  It's another revenue stream for banks to make more money.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: gmillerdrake on January 29, 2018, 12:51:04 PM
Tell me how many people have 20% to get a house for 1st time buyers?  It's another revenue stream for banks to make more money.

I agree. Seems a bit steep and it's just another way for big money to hammer us. I get they need 'some' protection.....that protection should be them not lending the $$ or just charge the higher risk loans a higher interest rate. Nailing us to the tune of $100-$180 a month extra just because they can is BS.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: cramx3 on January 29, 2018, 12:58:22 PM
PMI is a penalty you pay for not having a % as a down payment when buying a house.  I put down $11,000 when I bought my house, I needed 20% to not get charged the PMI which was $20,000 so i had to pay this tax.  It's bullshit that they get to do this but they do.  My PMI is up in 6 months and I will have an extra $81.00 a month in out pockets.

I'm not sure I agree with you on the bullshit part of this.  The PMI is not a tax, it's insurance from the lender that we pay so they feel comfortable giving a loan of money that we, at that point, showed we are not able to pay right then.  I think it's a fair way to get people to buy houses who otherwise would not have been able to.  LIke you said, it goes away once you get to 20%.  I'd be pissed if they kept it throughout the life of the loan.  I got another couple years before I reach that point, then $150 off my tab each month.

And Chino, I hear ya about the family part.   As a single guy (my brother lives with me) I have no issue with the small house that requires small maintenance.  I think I could only have one kid in this house before I'd want to move (its only 2 bedroom and 1.5 bath).  I just think it's more like I have zero kids than I have 2 kids hence why I can realistically see myself in the same spot for the remainder of my life.  I do have nice space in my basement though.  Honestly have put serious thought into building my laundry room into a studio for gaming and live streaming (aka going the full green screen and lighting route).  It's nice to have these options.

Tell me how many people have 20% to get a house for 1st time buyers?  It's another revenue stream for banks to make more money.

Well, also tell me, how many people who don't put down 20% foreclose and leave it to the bank?  I think it goes both ways here.  The banks take a risk on me, and I pay for it.  I am not trying to defend the banks (shit, I am paying them!) but I am just trying to look at it in a fair way.   I most certainly wouldn't of had a house if it weren't for this.  I would have been put into an apartment where I would struggle to save up that 20% and maybe could buy a house when I am 40.  Since it seems quite a few of us had/have FHA loans, I think we all benefitted from this program.  But also, luckily for this, I am now (slowly) building that home equity and next time I won't have to go the FHA route.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: axeman90210 on January 29, 2018, 12:59:47 PM
Some of you guys are making me jealous with the cost of buying where you live. I'll probably be living at home for another two years while I save up for a down payment on a condo. There's a new condo unit under construction that I walk by every day, and while it's true this is going to be something of a luxury building, the banner on the site advertises that studio condos will start at 600K. Even an older 1 bedroom condo is going for at least 350K.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Cool Chris on January 29, 2018, 01:09:59 PM
Isn't a higher portion of "higher risk loans" going to be attached to minority borrowers, and this charging them a higher rate would be "racist?"
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: cramx3 on January 29, 2018, 01:30:38 PM
Equal housing lenders!  That term is everywhere when doing the paperwork.

Some of you guys are making me jealous with the cost of buying where you live. I'll probably be living at home for another two years while I save up for a down payment on a condo. There's a new condo unit under construction that I walk by every day, and while it's true this is going to be something of a luxury building, the banner on the site advertises that studio condos will start at 600K. Even an older 1 bedroom condo is going for at least 350K.

Well, you just need to get away from the city.  The burbs are where it's at.  The cost of living near the city is ridiculous if you ask me and I certainly don't make the kind of money to afford it either.  But I grew up here, I love it here, and I understand for some people, it's not even an option to move here just because of the city mentality.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: King Postwhore on January 29, 2018, 01:36:14 PM
PMI is a penalty you pay for not having a % as a down payment when buying a house.  I put down $11,000 when I bought my house, I needed 20% to not get charged the PMI which was $20,000 so i had to pay this tax.  It's bullshit that they get to do this but they do.  My PMI is up in 6 months and I will have an extra $81.00 a month in out pockets.

I'm not sure I agree with you on the bullshit part of this.  The PMI is not a tax, it's insurance from the lender that we pay so they feel comfortable giving a loan of money that we, at that point, showed we are not able to pay right then.  I think it's a fair way to get people to buy houses who otherwise would not have been able to.  LIke you said, it goes away once you get to 20%.  I'd be pissed if they kept it throughout the life of the loan.  I got another couple years before I reach that point, then $150 off my tab each month.

And Chino, I hear ya about the family part.   As a single guy (my brother lives with me) I have no issue with the small house that requires small maintenance.  I think I could only have one kid in this house before I'd want to move (its only 2 bedroom and 1.5 bath).  I just think it's more like I have zero kids than I have 2 kids hence why I can realistically see myself in the same spot for the remainder of my life.  I do have nice space in my basement though.  Honestly have put serious thought into building my laundry room into a studio for gaming and live streaming (aka going the full green screen and lighting route).  It's nice to have these options.

Tell me how many people have 20% to get a house for 1st time buyers?  It's another revenue stream for banks to make more money.

Well, also tell me, how many people who don't put down 20% foreclose and leave it to the bank?  I think it goes both ways here.  The banks take a risk on me, and I pay for it.  I am not trying to defend the banks (shit, I am paying them!) but I am just trying to look at it in a fair way.   I most certainly wouldn't of had a house if it weren't for this.  I would have been put into an apartment where I would struggle to save up that 20% and maybe could buy a house when I am 40.  Since it seems quite a few of us had/have FHA loans, I think we all benefitted from this program.  But also, luckily for this, I am now (slowly) building that home equity and next time I won't have to go the FHA route.

Well that was put in in the 90s after the banks went crazy on giving loans durring the 80s's period. They were Their Own Worst Enemy and now we pay for their gluttony.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: cramx3 on January 29, 2018, 01:42:49 PM
There's certainly lots of truth the to banks giving loans to people who shouldn't of gotten them.  I just look at it as I get something and they get something out of the deal, it's not really a one way street even if it works out better for the bank than me.  I am OK with that in this case.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: axeman90210 on January 29, 2018, 01:59:50 PM
Some of you guys are making me jealous with the cost of buying where you live. I'll probably be living at home for another two years while I save up for a down payment on a condo. There's a new condo unit under construction that I walk by every day, and while it's true this is going to be something of a luxury building, the banner on the site advertises that studio condos will start at 600K. Even an older 1 bedroom condo is going for at least 350K.

Well, you just need to get away from the city.  The burbs are where it's at.  The cost of living near the city is ridiculous if you ask me and I certainly don't make the kind of money to afford it either.  But I grew up here, I love it here, and I understand for some people, it's not even an option to move here just because of the city mentality.

Even the burbs are getting crazy. My friend went through a several month hunt trying to find a house in the suburbs (happily enough ended up moving a little over a mile from where I currently am) and it was a nightmare of bidding wars. People offering way over asking price in cash and that kind of stuff. Makes me pray that Newark doesn't get the new Amazon office because I'd hate to see what adding 50k tech workers would do to the housing market.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: cramx3 on January 29, 2018, 02:19:23 PM
True, but the market is good now so competition is happening.  There was little to no competition 5 years ago for me.  I made a low offer (20k under asking price) and was accepted the same weekend.  Had some help with my sweet talking mother (she was my real estate agent, as that is her profession, and she really did work the old lady home owner into the price).  But still, there was no bidding war or anything.  However, my friend bought a house a year ago and said there was a lot of bidding and house hunting.  Definitely sounds like a headache.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Cool Chris on January 29, 2018, 02:29:51 PM
Makes me pray that Newark doesn't get the new Amazon office because I'd hate to see what adding 50k tech workers would do to the housing market.

As someone who is seeing firsthand what this can do to a housing market, I support your praying. Amazon et al has turned Seattle in to the land of the million dollar 600 sf house. That's not to say there are only downfalls. But since this is a discussion about housing, yes wherever Amazon HQ2 sets up shop will see housing prices go berserk.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: jingle.boy on January 29, 2018, 02:38:46 PM
It's pure insurance.  PMI pays for all the people that default on their mortgage, and foreclosure losses.  It's no different than any other kind of insurance.  If you never have a car accident, then car insurance is bull-shit.  If you never get sick, than disability insurance is bull-shit.

If the insurance premiums were born 100% by the banks, then a shit-ton more high-risk people would apply for mortgages (ie, people who can't afford the premiums), and there would be a lot more defaults/foreclosures - raising EVERYONE's cost of borrowing.

Capitalism at it's finest.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: King Postwhore on January 29, 2018, 02:53:05 PM
It's pure insurance.  PMI pays for all the people that default on their mortgage, and foreclosure losses.  It's no different than any other kind of insurance.  If you never have a car accident, then car insurance is bull-shit.  If you never get sick, than disability insurance is bull-shit.

If the insurance premiums were born 100% by the banks, then a shit-ton more high-risk people would apply for mortgages (ie, people who can't afford the premiums), and there would be a lot more defaults/foreclosures - raising EVERYONE's cost of borrowing.

Capitalism at it's finest.

Yup and their mistakes in the 80's have affected us now. 
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Grappler on January 30, 2018, 06:15:08 AM
It's pure insurance.  PMI pays for all the people that default on their mortgage, and foreclosure losses.  It's no different than any other kind of insurance.  If you never have a car accident, then car insurance is bull-shit.  If you never get sick, than disability insurance is bull-shit.

If the insurance premiums were born 100% by the banks, then a shit-ton more high-risk people would apply for mortgages (ie, people who can't afford the premiums), and there would be a lot more defaults/foreclosures - raising EVERYONE's cost of borrowing.

Capitalism at it's finest.

I disagree.  It's bullshit that the banks take out the insurance policy and force the homeowners to pay for it, when it protects only the bank.  That was always my issue with it - why do I have to pay for your protection?

But I have no problem with the bank taking out that insurance - bad things can happen unexpectedly.  It's the reason that we have insurance.  Just because you've never been in a car accident or been ill doesn't mean that it won't happen eventually.  People can lose their jobs, take pay-cuts, and experience all sorts of financial issues that can lead them to defaulting on a mortgage.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: jingle.boy on January 30, 2018, 07:27:29 AM
It's pure insurance.  PMI pays for all the people that default on their mortgage, and foreclosure losses.  It's no different than any other kind of insurance.  If you never have a car accident, then car insurance is bull-shit.  If you never get sick, than disability insurance is bull-shit.

If the insurance premiums were born 100% by the banks, then a shit-ton more high-risk people would apply for mortgages (ie, people who can't afford the premiums), and there would be a lot more defaults/foreclosures - raising EVERYONE's cost of borrowing.

Capitalism at it's finest.
People can lose their jobs, take pay-cuts, and experience all sorts of financial issues that can lead them to defaulting on a mortgage.

I see your point, but I disagree.  It's economics.  If the banks had to bear that cost themselves, interest rates would go up.  All costs are eventually pushed down to the end consumer, or the last link in the value consumption chain.  Property/casualty insurance companies purchase insurance on the insurance they issue you (re-insurance).  You don't think you're bearing that cost in your car insurance premiums?
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Stadler on January 30, 2018, 07:54:29 AM
Tell me how many people have 20% to get a house for 1st time buyers?  It's another revenue stream for banks to make more money.

I agree. Seems a bit steep and it's just another way for big money to hammer us. I get they need 'some' protection.....that protection should be them not lending the $$ or just charge the higher risk loans a higher interest rate. Nailing us to the tune of $100-$180 a month extra just because they can is BS.

But look at what you wrote:  if you're worried about "Big Money" (good tune, really hate the liberal descriptor "Big" before any institution they don't like.  Yes, I know you're not a liberal, but that's the origin of that terminology) why do you give them two options that actually make them the same amount of money but fuck over the little guy?  If they don't give YOU (the person without the 20% down), they WILL give it to someone else who does, meaning, they make their money and you don't have a house, or they charge higher interest, which  means they get their money and you still pay more?  Why wouldn't you take the PMI which actually also affords you some protection, and can fall off the note at the 20% equity point (a higher interest rate will not and would require you to pay additional closing costs, which is yet more money out of your pocket)?   
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Stadler on January 30, 2018, 07:59:51 AM
There's certainly lots of truth the to banks giving loans to people who shouldn't of gotten them.  I just look at it as I get something and they get something out of the deal, it's not really a one way street even if it works out better for the bank than me.  I am OK with that in this case.

This is to King as well, but whoa whoa - why is it the banks' fault that someone got in over their head?   Every President since Reagan, and I only stop there because that's as far back as my direct knowledge goes, has had some program or some initiative to get people into their own homes.  Perhaps the things you guys say aren't true if we don't accept that owning your own home is a good thing, a goal, and a positive for both the people and communities (roots, quality of life, condition of our neighborhoods).  How many of you live in a community and you can tell which houses are "owned" and which are "rented"?   

Having said that, when I got into a little financial trouble around the time of my divorce, it was on me.  I signed the papers, I agreed to the debt, not the bank.   To blame the banks when Joe Blow doesn't make a mortgage payment - or call the bank for a restructuring - is kind of "Bernie thinking".   
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: King Postwhore on January 30, 2018, 08:03:51 AM
That's not the point.  it was the banks who wanted to give out loans like cigarettes to kids in the 50's.  If you were not financially well off to buy a house, then you can't get one.  No even though I was well enough to buy a house I was penalized because big banks saw an opportunity to make more money.  I paid more for their sins, not mine.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Stadler on January 30, 2018, 08:07:20 AM
It's pure insurance.  PMI pays for all the people that default on their mortgage, and foreclosure losses.  It's no different than any other kind of insurance.  If you never have a car accident, then car insurance is bull-shit.  If you never get sick, than disability insurance is bull-shit.

If the insurance premiums were born 100% by the banks, then a shit-ton more high-risk people would apply for mortgages (ie, people who can't afford the premiums), and there would be a lot more defaults/foreclosures - raising EVERYONE's cost of borrowing.


Capitalism at it's finest.

I can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not, but it IS capitalism at it's finest.  The alternative is what was tried with the ACA; fuck those that are healthy (here, financially capable) and make them pay for everyone else.    I think some of you are missing that you don't HAVE to pay PMI forever.  If you get your loan restructured and your property value has risen, PMI bye bye!   It's not a tax that goes forever. 

Plus, think about  it:  the PMI is meant to protect the lender in the event of a foreclosure.  Let's say you lose your job and can't pay for a month or so.   There are times when the PMI company will bridge your loan in order to prevent foreclosure.   Typical losses on a foreclosure can be as much as 30% of home value, and that would all come right from the PMI provider.   Speaking of job loss, some PMI providers will cover temporary, unexpected job losses, again, to prevent a foreclosure they have to pay on.   
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Stadler on January 30, 2018, 08:09:05 AM
It's pure insurance.  PMI pays for all the people that default on their mortgage, and foreclosure losses.  It's no different than any other kind of insurance.  If you never have a car accident, then car insurance is bull-shit.  If you never get sick, than disability insurance is bull-shit.

If the insurance premiums were born 100% by the banks, then a shit-ton more high-risk people would apply for mortgages (ie, people who can't afford the premiums), and there would be a lot more defaults/foreclosures - raising EVERYONE's cost of borrowing.

Capitalism at it's finest.

I disagree.  It's bullshit that the banks take out the insurance policy and force the homeowners to pay for it, when it protects only the bank.  That was always my issue with it - why do I have to pay for your protection?

But I have no problem with the bank taking out that insurance - bad things can happen unexpectedly.  It's the reason that we have insurance.  Just because you've never been in a car accident or been ill doesn't mean that it won't happen eventually.  People can lose their jobs, take pay-cuts, and experience all sorts of financial issues that can lead them to defaulting on a mortgage.

See above; you DO get some protections from that insurance.  The insurance is against foreclosure.  They will often step in - to your advantage - when the outcome can prevent them taking a loss equal to 30% of the home value.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: jingle.boy on January 30, 2018, 08:11:33 AM
I was being 100% serious.  Charge what the market will bear.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Stadler on January 30, 2018, 08:15:15 AM
That's not the point.  it was the banks who wanted to give out loans like cigarettes to kids in the 50's.  If you were not financially well off to buy a house, then you can't get one.  No even though I was well enough to buy a house I was penalized because big banks saw an opportunity to make more money.  I paid more for their sins, not mine.

I don't disagree, but "financially well off" is a subjective term, and it's not JUST "money for mortgage payment".   Compared with even 15 years ago think about all the monthly payments you have.  Cell phone. Spotify.  Cable.   Sirius.   Etc.  So the math that went into buying the house may or may not be valid now.   Plus if you're like my ex-wife, and a house isn't enough - got to furnish it! - buying the house may not be the problem; I may be able to afford the house, but once I take out an unsecured loan (credit card or otherwise) and now can't meet the payments on all of it, I'm fucked, but the bank had no part of that.   Why should they bear the risk of that?   They can't terminated the contract (that's what a mortgage is) except by following costly procedures.    Without PMI, foreclosures would be higher, which will also be spread out to the homeowner, so you're paying either way.   At least this way, there are at least some benefits for you the homeowner, and there's a way to avoid paying it.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: gmillerdrake on January 30, 2018, 08:21:11 AM
Tell me how many people have 20% to get a house for 1st time buyers?  It's another revenue stream for banks to make more money.

I agree. Seems a bit steep and it's just another way for big money to hammer us. I get they need 'some' protection.....that protection should be them not lending the $$ or just charge the higher risk loans a higher interest rate. Nailing us to the tune of $100-$180 a month extra just because they can is BS.

But look at what you wrote:  if you're worried about "Big Money" (good tune, really hate the liberal descriptor "Big" before any institution they don't like.  Yes, I know you're not a liberal, but that's the origin of that terminology) why do you give them two options that actually make them the same amount of money but fuck over the little guy?  If they don't give YOU (the person without the 20% down), they WILL give it to someone else who does, meaning, they make their money and you don't have a house, or they charge higher interest, which  means they get their money and you still pay more?  Why wouldn't you take the PMI which actually also affords you some protection, and can fall off the note at the 20% equity point (a higher interest rate will not and would require you to pay additional closing costs, which is yet more money out of your pocket)?

I don't have an issue with the banks making money on the loans they give out. They're the ones with the $$ to hand out so they should make money on it. But they are ALREADY making money on it with whatever interest rate they charge you. People with good credit get ___ interest rate, bad get ____....great gets ____. It seems simple enough and provides incentive for people to care about their decisions that could affect their credit scores. PMI or whatever loan insurance 'in case' the loan is defaulted on should be assumed by the banks and not by the borrowers.

Or, they could just lower the cost of PMI. Tacking on an additional $100+ to a house payment is brutal for most everyone. I know I could use an extra $100 a month.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: lordxizor on January 30, 2018, 08:24:36 AM
If they didn't charge PMI, they'd just raise the interest rate by an equivalent amount. PMI sucks, but I don't get the backlash against it. The banks will get their money one way or another. And you can get rid of PMI after you have 20% equity in your home. It is my choice to buy a house with less than 20% down, so I chose to have PMI. If I din't like it that much I could have saved fora couple more years toward my down payment.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: cramx3 on January 30, 2018, 08:29:29 AM
If they didn't charge PMI, they'd just raise the interest rate by an equivalent amount. PMI sucks, but I don't get the backlash against it. The banks will get their money one way or another. And you can get rid of PMI after you have 20% equity in your home. It is my choice to buy a house with less than 20% down, so I chose to have PMI. If I din't like it that much I could have saved fora couple more years toward my down payment.

Exactly, I get to live in a house where I otherwise wouldn't be able to for a bit longer.  I got to get in on a house investment in a down market.  It was to my benefit to get the PMI and live here.  It sucks, but it will go away when I meet the requirements and it's what both the bank and I agreed upon.  No one forced this, but I am happy I had this option.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: jingle.boy on January 30, 2018, 08:34:04 AM
If they didn't charge PMI, they'd just raise the interest rate by an equivalent amount.

And then EVERYONE would be "paying" for that cost (of insurance) for the entire life of the mortgage, not just until you have 20% of it paid off.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: King Postwhore on January 30, 2018, 08:41:18 AM
If they didn't charge PMI, they'd just raise the interest rate by an equivalent amount. PMI sucks, but I don't get the backlash against it. The banks will get their money one way or another. And you can get rid of PMI after you have 20% equity in your home. It is my choice to buy a house with less than 20% down, so I chose to have PMI. If I din't like it that much I could have saved fora couple more years toward my down payment.

Before the late 80's I didn't have to worry about PMI.  You are forgetting how the banks mismanaged handing out loans causing them to add PMI to protect themselves from themselves. 
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: gmillerdrake on January 30, 2018, 08:44:46 AM
Before the late 80's I didn't have to worry about PMI.  You are forgetting how the banks mismanaged handing out loans causing them to add PMI to protect themselves from themselves.

This is the gist of it all.

Not arguing against this:

If they didn't charge PMI, they'd just raise the interest rate by an equivalent amount. PMI sucks, but I don't get the backlash against it. The banks will get their money one way or another. And you can get rid of PMI after you have 20% equity in your home. It is my choice to buy a house with less than 20% down, so I chose to have PMI. If I din't like it that much I could have saved fora couple more years toward my down payment.

or this:

Exactly, I get to live in a house where I otherwise wouldn't be able to for a bit longer.  I got to get in on a house investment in a down market.  It was to my benefit to get the PMI and live here.  It sucks, but it will go away when I meet the requirements and it's what both the bank and I agreed upon.  No one forced this, but I am happy I had this option.

but King's point is the source of the frustration. PMI is there because of the fault of the banking industry.....not the borrowers.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Stadler on January 30, 2018, 09:41:53 AM
Tell me how many people have 20% to get a house for 1st time buyers?  It's another revenue stream for banks to make more money.

I agree. Seems a bit steep and it's just another way for big money to hammer us. I get they need 'some' protection.....that protection should be them not lending the $$ or just charge the higher risk loans a higher interest rate. Nailing us to the tune of $100-$180 a month extra just because they can is BS.

But look at what you wrote:  if you're worried about "Big Money" (good tune, really hate the liberal descriptor "Big" before any institution they don't like.  Yes, I know you're not a liberal, but that's the origin of that terminology) why do you give them two options that actually make them the same amount of money but fuck over the little guy?  If they don't give YOU (the person without the 20% down), they WILL give it to someone else who does, meaning, they make their money and you don't have a house, or they charge higher interest, which  means they get their money and you still pay more?  Why wouldn't you take the PMI which actually also affords you some protection, and can fall off the note at the 20% equity point (a higher interest rate will not and would require you to pay additional closing costs, which is yet more money out of your pocket)?

I don't have an issue with the banks making money on the loans they give out. They're the ones with the $$ to hand out so they should make money on it. But they are ALREADY making money on it with whatever interest rate they charge you. People with good credit get ___ interest rate, bad get ____....great gets ____. It seems simple enough and provides incentive for people to care about their decisions that could affect their credit scores. PMI or whatever loan insurance 'in case' the loan is defaulted on should be assumed by the banks and not by the borrowers.

Or, they could just lower the cost of PMI. Tacking on an additional $100+ to a house payment is brutal for most everyone. I know I could use an extra $100 a month.

First, "insurance" costs what it costs.  It gets underwritten and is what it is.   A lesser premium WOULD be a tax or a penalty, because it wouldn't cover the risk.

Second, I respectfully think you're looking at this from the wrong direction.  Why would  the banks assume that charge?   They are going to put their money to work one way or another.  They are going to get their return.  If you, the potential homeowner, want a house, you have only so many options.   With the time value of money being what it is, it's almost NEVER more cost effective to wait until you've saved the 20%, or till your credit score is sufficient to get that extra 1% off your interest rate.   You end up paying more in the long run that way.   

So the option is, higher interest rate for the life of the loan, or PMI for a period of time (roughly ten years on a 250K loan with 3.5% down, FHA numbers).   Funny thing?  On a $250K loan for 30 years, the difference between a 3.75% interest rate and a 4.75% interest rate is.... wait for it Long Beach, wait for it!     Just over $100.   
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: gmillerdrake on January 30, 2018, 09:44:54 AM
I respectfully think you're looking at this from the wrong direction.

I can almost guarantee that  :lol   I don't disagree with any of what you've replied/responded with. It's more of an emotional plea of there 'has' to be a better way.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Stadler on January 30, 2018, 09:46:48 AM

but King's point is the source of the frustration. PMI is there because of the fault of the banking industry.....not the borrowers.

And that's where we disagree.  I don't believe that at all.   The bank didn't force those people to buy those houses.  The bank didn't make the financial choices every month to pay for satellite dishes and iPhones instead of paying for the mortgage.   The bank didn't not call for a modification to the loan to make it possible to catch up (I know three people - personally - that got pushed into a foreclosure process.  Only one of them called and worked through the process of modifying the loan to avoid foreclosure; the other two just simply stopped paying.  Guess which one still owns the house to this day?)   

The note is held by the homeowner.  The homeowner is responsible for the terms of that note.  If the note is defaulted on, that is the responsibility of the homeowner.   
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Stadler on January 30, 2018, 09:49:15 AM
I respectfully think you're looking at this from the wrong direction.

I can almost guarantee that  :lol   I don't disagree with any of what you've replied/responded with. It's more of an emotional plea of there 'has' to be a better way.

I'm not sure I'd argue that point.  There probably is a better way. As a general proposition, I'm not the hugest fan of insurance, so I understand your point.  It's just the better of the two or three options we have right now.   I think my biggest issue isn't any of this stuff, but the post above.  I really have a hard time with any scenario that takes responsibility away from those in the position to make the decision or not.    The banks aren't forcing anyone to do anything with a gun to their head. 
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: King Postwhore on January 30, 2018, 10:01:00 AM

but King's point is the source of the frustration. PMI is there because of the fault of the banking industry.....not the borrowers.

And that's where we disagree.  I don't believe that at all.   The bank didn't force those people to buy those houses.  The bank didn't make the financial choices every month to pay for satellite dishes and iPhones instead of paying for the mortgage.   The bank didn't not call for a modification to the loan to make it possible to catch up (I know three people - personally - that got pushed into a foreclosure process.  Only one of them called and worked through the process of modifying the loan to avoid foreclosure; the other two just simply stopped paying.  Guess which one still owns the house to this day?)   

The note is held by the homeowner.  The homeowner is responsible for the terms of that note.  If the note is defaulted on, that is the responsibility of the homeowner.

While i understand this, it's the bankers who guide the homebuyers on how much they can afford and not guide them into a mortgage that the homebuyer has little understanding.  For example while it was new the adjustable load rates was a bad idea.  People after a year could not handle the loans when it skyrocketed higher than excepted.  It's not that the buyers were dumb, just not full informed by those handing out these new style loans.

In the end it is on the buyer but at that time, they were mislead leading to all the foreclosures.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Stadler on January 30, 2018, 10:19:13 AM
We'll have to respectfully disagree.  We may be talking more philosophy here, but a base assumption of my world view is that if I'm underinformed, it's no one's responsibility but my own.    Doesn't mean I'm right and you're wrong, it just means we're operating under different assumptions.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: King Postwhore on January 30, 2018, 10:21:23 AM
Now we are better educated.  That onslaught in the 80's with all the new and different loans people were not and then banks walking them into bad loans.   The banks were not straightforward then.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: jingle.boy on January 30, 2018, 10:30:35 AM
I don't think that because some group got a better deal in the past than you (royal 'you') are getting today means you're entitled to that deal.  Yeah, the banks over-extended themselves, and adjusted.  Just because someone got a better-than-they-deserved deal doesn't mean you're getting screwed.

Another point... the banks are pushing the cost of mitigating the risk of default to the party that would ultimately be responsible for the default.  I really don't see a problem in this.

I would compare it to the landlord that offers rent + utilities vs rent with utilities included.  You think it's the same rent?  Hell no... they are passing the cost of the utilities down to their customer - either discretely, or embedded into the price of the main 'product'.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Implode on February 02, 2018, 12:38:08 PM
I was looking for the thread a while ago and couldn't find it. Not to interrupt the discussion, but I just closed on my first home on Wednesday. It's just a 1500 sqft townhome, but I'm still really excited about it.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Cool Chris on February 02, 2018, 12:48:40 PM
Congratulations! Give us more deets, brah!
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: cramx3 on February 02, 2018, 12:51:14 PM
I was looking for the thread a while ago and couldn't find it. Not to interrupt the discussion, but I just closed on my first home on Wednesday. It's just a 1500 sqft townhome, but I'm still really excited about it.

Congrats, thats awesome  :yarr
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Phoenix87x on February 02, 2018, 01:31:33 PM
I was looking for the thread a while ago and couldn't find it. Not to interrupt the discussion, but I just closed on my first home on Wednesday. It's just a 1500 sqft townhome, but I'm still really excited about it.

That's awesome. Its a surreal and exciting experience.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Implode on February 02, 2018, 01:47:47 PM
Thanks guys.

Congratulations! Give us more deets, brah!

No interesting deets yet. 2 bed 2.5 bath with extra room to be my cosplay workshop. It's a bit dirty so I need to really clean it, but it's good. Unfortunately I can't really begin to do work on it and move in for a couple weeks, but it's gonna be great.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: ReaperKK on February 03, 2018, 05:05:34 PM
Congrats!
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: millahh on February 03, 2018, 06:37:53 PM
Looks like I'm finally joining the club, we just went under contract on a place, beautiful 1920s house in Maplwood NJ with a (relatively) huge yard.  It was just the second place we looked at, but we knew the market and knew what we wanted.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: ReaperKK on February 03, 2018, 08:26:29 PM
Nice! Congrats millahh, when is the tentative close date?
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: millahh on February 03, 2018, 08:36:50 PM
April 20 is the tentative date, though would ideally push it out a week or two, to minimize paying both rent and mortgage any longer than necessary.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: axeman90210 on February 03, 2018, 10:29:03 PM
Mazel tov sir! We'll have to do beers before the suburbs take you.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: cramx3 on February 04, 2018, 09:21:38 AM
Looks like I'm finally joining the club, we just went under contract on a place, beautiful 1920s house in Maplwood NJ with a (relatively) huge yard.  It was just the second place we looked at, but we knew the market and knew what we wanted.

Nice, that doesn't seem to far away from you now (I think) and into suburbia.  I'll be over by you for the Bon Jovi concert before you move out
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: millahh on February 04, 2018, 11:49:17 AM
Looks like I'm finally joining the club, we just went under contract on a place, beautiful 1920s house in Maplwood NJ with a (relatively) huge yard.  It was just the second place we looked at, but we knew the market and knew what we wanted.

Nice, that doesn't seem to far away from you now (I think) and into suburbia.  I'll be over by you for the Bon Jovi concert before you move out

It's only about a 16 minute drive (at off-peak) from where we are now, and a relatively short train ride as well.

Convening @ the Biergarten (or Barcade) soon will be a sound decision. 
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: gmillerdrake on February 04, 2018, 12:40:07 PM
Looks like I'm finally joining the club, we just went under contract on a place, beautiful 1920s house in Maplwood NJ with a (relatively) huge yard.  It was just the second place we looked at, but we knew the market and knew what we wanted.

 :tup   despite the stress that can come with finding/purchasing a new home it's always exciting as it's a new chapter in your life. Good Luck!!
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Nick on February 06, 2018, 10:39:10 AM
I was looking for the thread a while ago and couldn't find it. Not to interrupt the discussion, but I just closed on my first home on Wednesday. It's just a 1500 sqft townhome, but I'm still really excited about it.

Congrats, you're basically following in our footsteps. Our first and current home was bought Sep. 2016 and is 1,400 square feet. Weird having 2.5 bath in something that size, I must say. In any case we have 3 "bedrooms" and only use the master. One of the rooms is Jennie's office, with a little storage, and the other has her crafting stuff, a closet for my hockey gear, and my electronic drum kit.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: ReaperKK on February 06, 2018, 08:29:49 PM
Looking at this thread just reminds me that even though it can be a pain to keep up with my house it's amazing to have my own space and no one above or below me like my city apartment
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Phoenix87x on February 12, 2018, 06:25:01 AM
I was analyzing my mortgage payments and wow, the interest alone paid each month is 3x the principal. Amazing

(https://s3.amazonaws.com/media.pinterest.com/previews/BLmyVnjG.png)

Thank goodness that 74 grand isn't a mammoth amount overall. My heart goes out to people with 200-300 thousand dollar mortgages. How in the holy hell do people handle payments like that. Damn
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: lordxizor on February 12, 2018, 06:35:08 AM
My heart goes out to people with 200-300 thousand dollar mortgages. How in the holy hell do people handle payments like that. Damn
Yeah, it kinda sucks, but obviously we all buy homes that are within our means to pay for. My mortgage + all the extras is $1700 a month. Renting a similar home would likely be $1800-2000 a month, so I guess it's worth it.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: millahh on February 12, 2018, 06:53:39 AM
Looking at this thread just reminds me that even though it can be a pain to keep up with my house it's amazing to have my own space and no one above or below me like my city apartment

Yeah, I'm not going to miss living above a bar, or having asshole neighbors.  Of course, the cost of that is a mortgage that, while reasonably within our means, is...substantial.  But, such is the nature of having a nice house in a great neighborhood in the NYC metro area.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: kaos2900 on February 12, 2018, 07:24:59 AM
We just bought our second house! The home inspection is scheduled for tomorrow and then we just have to sell our house.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Chino on February 12, 2018, 08:05:24 AM
We just bought our second house! The home inspection is scheduled for tomorrow and then we just have to sell our house.

This is the thing I'm least looking forward to about being a homeowner.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Phoenix87x on February 12, 2018, 08:15:30 AM
We just bought our second house! The home inspection is scheduled for tomorrow and then we just have to sell our house.

This is the thing I'm least looking forward to about being a homeowner.

Me too. It seems like the pain in the ass to end all pain in the asses. Buying was enough of a headache...
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Stadler on February 12, 2018, 08:26:35 AM
I was analyzing my mortgage payments and wow, the interest alone paid each month is 3x the principal. Amazing

(https://s3.amazonaws.com/media.pinterest.com/previews/BLmyVnjG.png)

Thank goodness that 74 grand isn't a mammoth amount overall. My heart goes out to people with 200-300 thousand dollar mortgages. How in the holy hell do people handle payments like that. Damn

Your interest rate is a shade high (but probably not high enough to think about a refi) but you should kind of rethink your complaint about "interest" (which you can get back at tax time as it can be written off) and pray, burn candles, whatever it is you do to give thanks to an unkind cosmos, because your escrow payment is about 20% of mine, and your insurance is about 10% of mine.   
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Cool Chris on February 12, 2018, 08:34:13 AM
My heart goes out to people with 200-300 thousand dollar mortgages. How in the holy hell do people handle payments like that. Damn

I don't think there is a homeowner within 50 miles of me who has a mortgage for less than that.

Yeah, it kinda sucks, but obviously we all buy homes that are within our means to pay for.

Sadly many people buy homes that are not within their means.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: cramx3 on February 12, 2018, 08:50:46 AM
I was analyzing my mortgage payments and wow, the interest alone paid each month is 3x the principal. Amazing

(https://s3.amazonaws.com/media.pinterest.com/previews/BLmyVnjG.png)

Thank goodness that 74 grand isn't a mammoth amount overall. My heart goes out to people with 200-300 thousand dollar mortgages. How in the holy hell do people handle payments like that. Damn

Your interest rate is a shade high (but probably not high enough to think about a refi) but you should kind of rethink your complaint about "interest" (which you can get back at tax time as it can be written off) and pray, burn candles, whatever it is you do to give thanks to an unkind cosmos, because your escrow payment is about 20% of mine, and your insurance is about 10% of mine.

Yea, my interests payments are really high as well just due to being so early in a 30 year loan, that I don't start making that dent into the principal for a bit. I've looked at the numbers (they give like a 10 page printout of each payment of the life of the loan when I signed so I knew exactly what my numbers would look like in year 1 vs 10 vs 25 so this doesn't hit me hard since I understand the why and how this came to be).  But yea, that insurance and tax makes me jealous.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Chino on February 12, 2018, 09:02:29 AM
I was analyzing my mortgage payments and wow, the interest alone paid each month is 3x the principal. Amazing

(https://s3.amazonaws.com/media.pinterest.com/previews/BLmyVnjG.png)

Thank goodness that 74 grand isn't a mammoth amount overall. My heart goes out to people with 200-300 thousand dollar mortgages. How in the holy hell do people handle payments like that. Damn

If it's any consolation. Here is my breakdown for an 1800 Sqft home that cost $143K

Principal Payment: $235.77
Interest Payment: $407.45
Escrow & Insuarance Payment: $682.26
Other Charges: $5.93
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: cramx3 on February 12, 2018, 09:24:20 AM
Why not, from last month:

Quote
Principal Received$402.90
Interest Received$703.81
Escrow Received$859.92
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: gmillerdrake on February 12, 2018, 09:25:24 AM
I was analyzing my mortgage payments and wow, the interest alone paid each month is 3x the principal. Amazing

(https://s3.amazonaws.com/media.pinterest.com/previews/BLmyVnjG.png)

Thank goodness that 74 grand isn't a mammoth amount overall. My heart goes out to people with 200-300 thousand dollar mortgages. How in the holy hell do people handle payments like that. Damn

If it's any consolation. Here is my breakdown for an 1800 Sqft home that cost $143K

Principal Payment: $235.77
Interest Payment: $407.45
Escrow & Insuarance Payment: $682.26
Other Charges: $5.93


Ours on a $270k loan

Principal Payment: $427.28
Interest Payment: $922.16
Escrow & Insuarance Payment: $405.33
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: jingle.boy on February 12, 2018, 10:35:31 AM
Aye Carumba!!!  I'm so glad it's been a long time since I've been on the wrong side of P+I payments.  I bought my first house in 1999, and moved 3 years after that.  Still in the same house - though our runway to moving is going to be about a year or so.   Not to rub it in to anyone, but I paid it off last April.  THAT, ladies and gentlemen, is the benefit of home ownership - less than 20 years, and no more monthly payments.  Ever.  I consider myself very lucky in that regard - between the profit we made on the first house, getting the 2nd house for a steal, re-financing with a shortened amortization period when interest rates bottomed out, and my separation package last year ... we had a run of good things happen to get to this point.

Don't get me started on property taxes though.   :biggrin:
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: millahh on February 12, 2018, 10:42:21 AM
Taxes...sigh.  The yearly on our soon-to-be place are almost $18K.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Cool Chris on February 12, 2018, 10:44:03 AM
Good lord, ours are $4200 and I thought those were high, mainly because of the ~15% increase from last year.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: axeman90210 on February 12, 2018, 10:44:56 AM
Taxes...sigh.  The yearly on our soon-to-be place are almost $18K.

Yeah, the taxes on my parents' place are in that neighborhood as well. Hooray New Jersey  :|
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: jingle.boy on February 12, 2018, 10:45:29 AM
Good lord, ours are $4200 and I thought those were high, mainly because of the ~15% increase from last year.

I'm a tad higher, just under $5k.  Milahh's livin the high life!
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: cramx3 on February 12, 2018, 10:46:29 AM
Good lord, ours are $4200 and I thought those were high, mainly because of the ~15% increase from last year.

I'm a tad higher, just under $5k.  Milahh's livin the high life!

$6700 after last years increase for me, yay NJ
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: kaos2900 on February 12, 2018, 11:33:25 AM
We just bought our second house! The home inspection is scheduled for tomorrow and then we just have to sell our house.

This is the thing I'm least looking forward to about being a homeowner.

In Omaha it's 100% a sellers market right now and houses in our price range are selling same day with competing offers. We were lucky to find our new house so quickly with no competition.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: gmillerdrake on February 12, 2018, 11:57:00 AM
We just bought our second house! The home inspection is scheduled for tomorrow and then we just have to sell our house.

I've been contacted by (4) agents....two of whom I know....in the past three months asking if we'd be willing to sell our house. Apparently, the inventory for our particular price range/square footage etc. is extremely low in the St. Louis area and so we've been told that we could make some good $$.

It is tempting but we love our location, neighbors and the school system the kiddos are in so we are standing pat. But...if we were to sell at the price my buddy told me our house would most certainly sell at....we'd be staring at a $60k gain (prior to paying the costs associated with selling a home) Like I said...tempting but we've decided against it.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: cramx3 on February 12, 2018, 11:59:17 AM
There's something to be said about being happy with all those things that money can't buy (or it will at least cost a large amount).
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Stadler on February 12, 2018, 12:01:07 PM
We just bought our second house! The home inspection is scheduled for tomorrow and then we just have to sell our house.

I've been contacted by (4) agents....two of whom I know....in the past three months asking if we'd be willing to sell our house. Apparently, the inventory for our particular price range/square footage etc. is extremely low in the St. Louis area and so we've been told that we could make some good $$.

It is tempting but we love our location, neighbors and the school system the kiddos are in so we are standing pat. But...if we were to sell at the price my buddy told me our house would most certainly sell at....we'd be staring at a $60k gain (prior to paying the costs associated with selling a home) Like I said...tempting but we've decided against it.

Selling like that is only a sound strategy if you have a fallback plan for living.   You might make $60k, but then you have to buy in that same market, AND absorb the costs of a transaction and a move.   Obviously there are too many variables in something like this to truly judge from an internet forum post, but first blush, you're right to not be greedy and/or short sighted. 
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: gmillerdrake on February 12, 2018, 12:09:03 PM
We just bought our second house! The home inspection is scheduled for tomorrow and then we just have to sell our house.

I've been contacted by (4) agents....two of whom I know....in the past three months asking if we'd be willing to sell our house. Apparently, the inventory for our particular price range/square footage etc. is extremely low in the St. Louis area and so we've been told that we could make some good $$.

It is tempting but we love our location, neighbors and the school system the kiddos are in so we are standing pat. But...if we were to sell at the price my buddy told me our house would most certainly sell at....we'd be staring at a $60k gain (prior to paying the costs associated with selling a home) Like I said...tempting but we've decided against it.

Selling like that is only a sound strategy if you have a fallback plan for living.   You might make $60k, but then you have to buy in that same market, AND absorb the costs of a transaction and a move.   Obviously there are too many variables in something like this to truly judge from an internet forum post, but first blush, you're right to not be greedy and/or short sighted.

Those really are the reasons we've chose to stand pat Bill. It 'sounds' great but when it's all said and done the hassle involved in changing locations, schools, ancillary expenses that moves require etc etc.....it's just simply not worth it.

I mean....we'd be selling our house to try and find the same house  :lol  Plus, we've put a lot of work into it in the four years we've been there and I have a pretty neat plan to finish off our back yard living area....so, it just isn't the right call for us. But when you see the potential for big numbers like that you can get hypnotized by them easily.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: jingle.boy on February 12, 2018, 01:07:43 PM
Hang tight Gary... in 10 years, you'll likely make even more of a killing when you ARE ready make that change.  jingle.kids are gonna be out of the house in less than a year, and at that point there is nothing holding us to our house/city.  The house has appreciated about 2.5x at a conservative estimate, and even if there's a "crash" in the next 12 months, we'd be down to about 2x value from what we paid - and we've only been here 16 years.

There will be another 'sellers' market in the future.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: gmillerdrake on February 12, 2018, 01:24:23 PM
Hang tight Gary... in 10 years, you'll likely make even more of a killing when you ARE ready make that change.  jingle.kids are gonna be out of the house in less than a year, and at that point there is nothing holding us to our house/city.  The house has appreciated about 2.5x at a conservative estimate, and even if there's a "crash" in the next 12 months, we'd be down to about 2x value from what we paid - and we've only been here 16 years.

There will be another 'sellers' market in the future.

Yep. We were really blessed from the get go thanks to a very good decision my wife made on purchasing her first home. She bought a house in St. Louis city about three years before we met for $90k. Really nice home, had off the street parking in the back of the home....really quaint and nice starter home. Yadda Yadda Yadda few years goes by....we meet, get engaged and she decides to sell so when we get married we can find our first home together.

she ended up selling that house for $138k !!! It was spring of 2005 when she sold it....we got married in June of 05' and bought our first starter home. Fast Forward to 2008 and the housing market crash. I can almost guarantee whomever that was that bought her house....unless they are still in it.....took a major hit.
but, that chunk of change she made set us up nice on our first home and the one we have now as far as money down.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: ReaperKK on February 13, 2018, 05:15:01 AM
I was analyzing my mortgage payments and wow, the interest alone paid each month is 3x the principal. Amazing

(https://s3.amazonaws.com/media.pinterest.com/previews/BLmyVnjG.png)

Thank goodness that 74 grand isn't a mammoth amount overall. My heart goes out to people with 200-300 thousand dollar mortgages. How in the holy hell do people handle payments like that. Damn

Our house is $279k and with insurance, taxes, PMI, and principal + interest it comes out to $1740 a month. They just built an apartment complex close to my neighborhood and a 3 bedroom 1400 sqft apartment starts at $1850 a month, I have a brand new house that's 3000 sqft. Granted there are more costs associated to having a home but the advantages (to me) having my own place far outweigh those costs.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Podaar on February 13, 2018, 06:37:49 AM
I was analyzing my mortgage payments and wow, the interest alone paid each month is 3x the principal. Amazing

(https://s3.amazonaws.com/media.pinterest.com/previews/BLmyVnjG.png)

Thank goodness that 74 grand isn't a mammoth amount overall. My heart goes out to people with 200-300 thousand dollar mortgages. How in the holy hell do people handle payments like that. Damn

Just saw this.

The best, reasonable way, to handle interest that I've found is to make an extra payment (or two if you can) annually and have it go toward the principal only (some lending institutions will apply to the interest by default...rotten bastards). It's only truly effective if you can do it from the inception of the loan which, of course, is the most difficult time to do it. By doing that, I cut better than five years off of my 15 year mortgage. That's quite a bit of interest.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: lordxizor on February 13, 2018, 06:45:05 AM
Technically, you're better off taking that extra house payment and investing it in a Roth IRA instead. You don't pay your house off faster, but you get an average of 7% a year in growth as opposed to the 3-5% that your mortgage interest is, plus you can deduct your mortgage interest if you itemize deductions in your taxes. It's definitely nice to get your house paid off faster, but you'll come out ahead investing those extra payments instead.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: millahh on February 13, 2018, 07:24:35 AM
This conversation is doing my head in...our to-be place is $629K, ~$18K/yr in taxes, and is slightly less than 2000 ft^2.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: cramx3 on February 13, 2018, 07:29:54 AM
This conversation is doing my head in...our to-be place is $629K, ~$18K/yr in taxes, and is slightly less than 2000 ft^2.

Hooray New Jersey  :|

yay NJ
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: kaos2900 on February 13, 2018, 10:39:42 AM
This conversation is doing my head in...our to-be place is $629K, ~$18K/yr in taxes, and is slightly less than 2000 ft^2.

The house we bought in a suburb of Omaha is 3700 sqft and we paid $260,000 with $5000 in taxes per year. You can get a lot of house in this City for the money compared to other cities.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: kaos2900 on April 02, 2018, 12:08:11 PM
Our house went live at 9:30 this morning and we already have 10 showings scheduled for today! The market is crazy right now!
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: gmillerdrake on April 02, 2018, 12:13:54 PM
Our house went live at 9:30 this morning and we already have 10 showings scheduled for today! The market is crazy right now!

 :tup    It's definitely a sellers market right now. I personally know three couples who's homes sold within days....one of which was the day they listed. Here's to hoping you guys get an offer tonight!!!
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Grappler on April 02, 2018, 12:34:00 PM
This conversation is doing my head in...our to-be place is $629K, ~$18K/yr in taxes, and is slightly less than 2000 ft^2.

The house we bought in a suburb of Omaha is 3700 sqft and we paid $260,000 with $5000 in taxes per year. You can get a lot of house in this City for the money compared to other cities.

I live in Illinois and pay $6,300 in taxes for a 1,600 square foot house.   :censored
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: ReaperKK on April 02, 2018, 12:40:14 PM
It’s nuts here in Charlotte too. One of our neighbors is selling their house because they are moving to another state and it was on the market for all of two hours.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: gmillerdrake on April 02, 2018, 12:45:22 PM
We are getting new next door neighbors this month. Our neighbor sold his house....took 6 days to sell.....and the new folks are moving in on the 27th this month.

He has a pretty sweet gig actually. He's the Superintendent for the Builder who is building the homes in our subdivision. The way some of his compensation works is that he gets to build a house for cost in whichever community his company is building in.....he lives on site as the community is built....then once they are near completion he moves on to the next.

There's only (3) lots left in our subdivision so he's on to the next. He has a modest Ranch, 1600 sf with an unfinished basement that he told me he built for $215k...just cost. He sold it for $283k. He's been there for (4)  years so that's a nice close to $70k 'bonus'.  :lol 
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: kaos2900 on April 02, 2018, 01:53:33 PM
We just got our first offer. Asking price with information only home inspection, they will beat out any offer up to $12k more than asking price!
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: gmillerdrake on April 02, 2018, 01:58:35 PM
We just got our first offer. Asking price with information only home inspection, they will beat out any offer up to $12k more than asking price!


Wow!!!!     :metal    That's awesome!!!
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Phoenix87x on April 02, 2018, 03:47:34 PM
Damn, that was quick. Awesome
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: lordxizor on April 03, 2018, 07:15:49 AM
I sometimes think we should sell our house and rent for a while waiting for the inevitable correction to housing prices. Seems like things can't keep going up like they have. It feels like the mid-2000's again. Though with interest rates going up things have cooled a little. We just put a brand new roof and siding on our place (thanks hailstorm) which would help the value a bunch. We could probably walk away netting $50-60k after only 3 years in the house. But rental prices are high right now too so it's likely not worth it.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: cramx3 on April 03, 2018, 08:02:06 AM
We just got our first offer. Asking price with information only home inspection, they will beat out any offer up to $12k more than asking price!

Damn, thats pretty awesome.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Implode on April 03, 2018, 09:36:16 AM
I sometimes think we should sell our house and rent for a while waiting for the inevitable correction to housing prices. Seems like things can't keep going up like they have. It feels like the mid-2000's again.

That's something I'm worried about. I just bought a townhome, and I know it's not likely to go up in value, but it'd be nice if I didn't lose a ton of money either. I really hope I didn't buy right before a crash.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: gmillerdrake on April 03, 2018, 09:59:15 AM
We could probably walk away netting $50-60k after only 3 years in the house. But rental prices are high right now too so it's likely not worth it.

We're in the exact same spot as far as the amount of equity we have in our home....although we've been there 4 years. We contemplated a move, maybe a downsize but with three growing boys it just didn't seem logical. We just feel blessed that we're even in the position that we're in so we will call it even. We bought this house with the intention of staying here until at least the boys graduating high school...maybe longer, so we're gonna resist the temptation....put some effort into our house as far as yard work etc. and ride it out.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Nick on April 03, 2018, 10:05:07 AM
Since we bought our house with no money down and seller assist to help with most of the closing costs it'll be a long time till we have to worry about such things! Probably have to live there another 3-4 years worth of payments, with the extra I add in every month till we see any actual equity in the home during a sale.

However I have done several improvements to the home, so hopefully that will help keep its value up or increase it a tad.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: bosk1 on April 03, 2018, 10:07:42 AM
I sometimes think we should sell our house and rent for a while waiting for the inevitable correction to housing prices. Seems like things can't keep going up like they have. It feels like the mid-2000's again.

That's something I'm worried about. I just bought a townhome, and I know it's not likely to go up in value, but it'd be nice if I didn't lose a ton of money either. I really hope I didn't buy right before a crash.
I wouldn't let that worry you UNLESS you believe you are likely to move in the next five years, or if you don't have enough to really afford it in the first place.  Historically, real estate almost always goes up in the long term.  But, yeah, it's easy to get burned in the short term if you buy at a peak and then need/want to leave when you are still upside down or just haven't made enough. 

All that said, there is a lot of wisdom in this simple formula:
-Make sure you have AT LEAST 20% down.
-Make sure the P&I on a 15 year fixed (and preferably tax and insurance as well) is not more than 25% of your take home pay.

If you meet both of those and plan to stay 5 years, you probably stand to gain by buying as soon as you are ready.  If not, start saving.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Chino on April 03, 2018, 10:32:17 AM
I don't know about the generation before mine, but with people in my age bracket, 20% down is basically unheard of. Several of the people I'm close with have bought homes since I bought my first 3.5 years ago, and none of us had anywhere close to 20% to put down. I put down 4%. The number of 25-30 year olds having $35K plus just sitting in savings for a down payment is pretty low.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Cool Chris on April 03, 2018, 10:39:22 AM
20% is definitely a barrier many people will find hard to achieve, but it seems like perhaps people these days are striving to purchase a home earlier in their lives than they did a generation or two ago. The younger you are, the less time you've had to accumulate enough wealth for that 20%.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: bosk1 on April 03, 2018, 10:44:54 AM
Of course.  But notice that I said "save."  I didn't say "find money just sitting in your savings account."  Saving is "unheard of" for a lot of people because they don't make the effort to save.  And when I say "effort," I mean things like sacrificing eating out, going to the game, going on vacation, getting that new, cool "thing," or whatever.  If you save and sacrifice like nobody's business for 3-5 years, you should be able to come up with 20% in most markets.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: mikeyd23 on April 03, 2018, 10:46:00 AM
I don't know about the generation before mine, but with people in my age bracket, 20% down is basically unheard of. Several of the people I'm close with have bought homes since I bought my first 3.5 years ago, and none of us had anywhere close to 20% to put down. I put down 4%. The number of 25-30 year olds having $35K plus just sitting in savings for a down payment is pretty low.

Agreed. Our generation (I'm assuming we are around the same age, I'm 28) simply does not have that kind of money sitting around, it's very rare.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Nick on April 03, 2018, 10:51:16 AM
Of course.  But notice that I said "save."  I didn't say "find money just sitting in your savings account."  Saving is "unheard of" for a lot of people because they don't make the effort to save.  And when I say "effort," I mean things like sacrificing eating out, going to the game, going on vacation, getting that new, cool "thing," or whatever.  If you save and sacrifice like nobody's business for 3-5 years, you should be able to come up with 20% in most markets.

Even if I made all the attempts in the world, the thought of saving 30,000 before age 30 would be nearly impossible. And part of it would come at a cost of paying the absolute minimum towards student loans and the like, which is barely really saving at that point. Frankly I don't know why anybody would want to save to that degree if it means a non-existent quality of life. Perhaps if you've got a well off family taking care of your schooling and living situation so that you can just work to do what you want and save as well that's practical, but otherwise, not really.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: bosk1 on April 03, 2018, 10:57:51 AM
I don't know about the generation before mine, but with people in my age bracket, 20% down is basically unheard of. Several of the people I'm close with have bought homes since I bought my first 3.5 years ago, and none of us had anywhere close to 20% to put down. I put down 4%. The number of 25-30 year olds having $35K plus just sitting in savings for a down payment is pretty low.

Agreed. Our generation (I'm assuming we are around the same age, I'm 28) simply does not have that kind of money sitting around, it's very rare.

I don't think ANY generation had "that kind of money sitting around."  But the difference between us and our grandparents is that they knew how to sacrifice and save so that they eventually would have that kind of money for something they really wanted.  I think too many of us nowadays want to skip right over the "save and sacrifice" part and jump right to the "having money" part.  But it doesn't work like that.

Of course.  But notice that I said "save."  I didn't say "find money just sitting in your savings account."  Saving is "unheard of" for a lot of people because they don't make the effort to save.  And when I say "effort," I mean things like sacrificing eating out, going to the game, going on vacation, getting that new, cool "thing," or whatever.  If you save and sacrifice like nobody's business for 3-5 years, you should be able to come up with 20% in most markets.

Even if I made all the attempts in the world, the thought of saving 30,000 before age 30 would be nearly impossible. And part of it would come at a cost of paying the absolute minimum towards student loans and the like, which is barely really saving at that point. Frankly I don't know why anybody would want to save to that degree if it means a non-existent quality of life. Perhaps if you've got a well off family taking care of your schooling and living situation so that you can just work to do what you want and save as well that's practical, but otherwise, not really.

Then perhaps we are too wrapped up in "quality of life" at the expense of other things?  Personally, I find it much more valuable to sacrifice "quality of life" from age 20 to 30 to find oneself debt free in one's 20s, having their home paid off by mid-40s, and having a ton of money saved up to live off of and be generous with later in life.  I can tell you that, for me personally, I'd rather keep more of my money than pay interest to a bank because I'm in debt.  But to each their own.  I'm offering the best advice I can to the one who asked above.  Your mileage may vary.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Grappler on April 03, 2018, 11:06:56 AM

Even if I made all the attempts in the world, the thought of saving 30,000 before age 30 would be nearly impossible. And part of it would come at a cost of paying the absolute minimum towards student loans and the like, which is barely really saving at that point. Frankly I don't know why anybody would want to save to that degree if it means a non-existent quality of life. Perhaps if you've got a well off family taking care of your schooling and living situation so that you can just work to do what you want and save as well that's practical, but otherwise, not really.

My wife and I did.  We had our car loans, her student loans, and our apartment rent, plus other expenses (gas, renters/auto insurance, cell phone bills, cable bill etc.) over our heads, and we were working our first jobs out of college, so we weren't' really making a ton of money yet.  We had a goal of getting married and buying a home, so we SAVED.  She diverted a portion of her paycheck to the savings account, so twice a month, it was automatically saved.  Our tax returns were not spent on junk each spring.  We would take about $1,500 max (usually less) and take a trip to the beach or Vegas, but the rest was put the bank and saved.  If we received money as a gift, it went into the bank.  I had a mutual fund that my mom had started for me, where I contributed money from the age of 22 to the age of 28 and doubled my contributed money over that time.  When the recession hit in 2008, Bush gave everyone $600 to "stimulate the economy" on their tax return.  Guess what I did?  I used that $600 to pay off my car loan.  I didn't go buy a tv.

Sure, we took a trip once a year, or ate out on occasion.  But we found a way to make things work for us.  We had an affordable apartment that was nice, but not too much money for us (i.e. I'm not keeping up with the Jonses and moving into the city to pay more money to rent an apartment just to say I live in "the city").  Having the dual income was tremendous, but it was up to both of us to not live so extravagantly.

We got married in May one year and in June we put 10% down on a $200,000 home.  So in three years, we had saved $26,000 for a home.

It is possible - but bosk is right.  You can't have EVERYTHING and expect to save.  We didn't have smartphones (iphones had just come out then), we didn't travel the world like my other college friends started doing, we lived within our means and put every dollar we could into saving...while still being able to enjoy our lives without going overboard. 

After 7 years of owning a home, we were able to refinance and had just enough equity to remove the PMI from our mortgage and get into a lower interest rate.  Now, with her quitting work to be a stay at home mom, we're back in the same boat - cutting back on the lifestyle and hobbies to ensure that we have enough money for our home and family's necessities.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Stadler on April 03, 2018, 11:16:52 AM
No judgment here - I certainly don't have the discipline I wish I did when  it came to this stuff - but times are different.  I'm 50.  When I was 22, and fresh out of school, I had a car payment, car insurance, a rent payment, utilities, and that's it.  No subscriptions, no cell phones, no Spotify, no massive cable bill, no internet, no security system, no Sirius Satellite Radio...  I think we lose sight of how quickly "$14.99 a month" adds up to suck a ton of money out of our shorts every month. 
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: bosk1 on April 03, 2018, 11:27:34 AM
No judgment here - I certainly don't have the discipline I wish I did when  it came to this stuff - but times are different.  I'm 50.  When I was 22, and fresh out of school, I had a car payment, car insurance, a rent payment, utilities, and that's it.  No subscriptions, no cell phones, no Spotify, no massive cable bill, no internet, no security system, no Sirius Satellite Radio...  I think we lose sight of how quickly "$14.99 a month" adds up to suck a ton of money out of our shorts every month. 

Well, sure.  But a lot of those things you mention can be eliminated.  And, with all due respect, when one is younger is exactly the time to build that discipline.  Rather than having a car payment at 22, for example, one can instead pay cash for a beater that looks like garbage but runs and gets you from point A to point B.  An extra part time job in the evenings for 3-6 months will get you a car, which saves you that $300-$400 (or whatever) car payment every month (and probably lowers the insurance significantly to boot).  And other than cell phone and Internet, none of those other items you mention are essential either.  Again, it's all about prioritizing what you want.  But even if one isn't saving for a house, I would still submit that learning financial discipline as young as possible is incredibly valuable and leads to a lot more financial opportunities later.  I wish I had done better at it when I was younger, because although I think we are doing pretty well right now, we could be miles ahead if we had had some better advice and applied ourselves a bit differently.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: kaos2900 on April 03, 2018, 11:29:08 AM
We ended up with 14 showings and got 7 offers. We ended up accepting an offer that was originally asking price with an escalating clause where they would beat any bid by $1000 up to $12k more than asking price, no closing costs, and an informational only home inspection. We ended up getting $9k more than asking price.  :metal
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: bosk1 on April 03, 2018, 11:29:57 AM
Nice!  Congrats!
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Chino on April 03, 2018, 11:32:56 AM
We ended up with 14 showings and got 7 offers. We ended up accepting an offer that was originally asking price with an escalating clause where they would beat any bid by $1000 up to $12k more than asking price, no closing costs, and an informational only home inspection. We ended up getting $9k more than asking price.  :metal

Damn. Nice. We have houses in our neighborhood that have been completely remodeled and have still been sitting on the market for the better part of a year now.  I envy you.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: lordxizor on April 03, 2018, 01:49:06 PM
We could probably walk away netting $50-60k after only 3 years in the house. But rental prices are high right now too so it's likely not worth it.

We're in the exact same spot as far as the amount of equity we have in our home....although we've been there 4 years. We contemplated a move, maybe a downsize but with three growing boys it just didn't seem logical. We just feel blessed that we're even in the position that we're in so we will call it even. We bought this house with the intention of staying here until at least the boys graduating high school...maybe longer, so we're gonna resist the temptation....put some effort into our house as far as yard work etc. and ride it out.

We're in a pretty similar boat. We bought our home because it was a home we could stay in for 20 years. Not that we necessarily want to but it would work for our family (3 young boys) as they grow up. Our mortgage is affordable based on my current income, though I'd love my monthly payment to be less. In retrospect i wish we had spend $50k less, but there's nothing I can do about that now. The house we should have bought 3 years ago costs as much as the house we have now and with interest rates being at least 1% higher, we'd have to downgrade a ton to save any money. I don't look at my home as an investment (though it is to some degree, we've had those discussions previously in this thread). It's a place for my family to live that offers a level of stability that renting is unlikely to offer.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: gmillerdrake on April 03, 2018, 04:45:44 PM
We could probably walk away netting $50-60k after only 3 years in the house. But rental prices are high right now too so it's likely not worth it.

We're in the exact same spot as far as the amount of equity we have in our home....although we've been there 4 years. We contemplated a move, maybe a downsize but with three growing boys it just didn't seem logical. We just feel blessed that we're even in the position that we're in so we will call it even. We bought this house with the intention of staying here until at least the boys graduating high school...maybe longer, so we're gonna resist the temptation....put some effort into our house as far as yard work etc. and ride it out.

We're in a pretty similar boat. We bought our home because it was a home we could stay in for 20 years. Not that we necessarily want to but it would work for our family (3 young boys) as they grow up. Our mortgage is affordable based on my current income, though I'd love my monthly payment to be less. In retrospect i wish we had spend $50k less, but there's nothing I can do about that now. The house we should have bought 3 years ago costs as much as the house we have now and with interest rates being at least 1% higher, we'd have to downgrade a ton to save any money. I don't look at my home as an investment (though it is to some degree, we've had those discussions previously in this thread). It's a place for my family to live that offers a level of stability that renting is unlikely to offer.

 :lol    That’s our same situation. We can afford our house/lifestyle but looking back we’ve both admitted we should have been a tad more patient. A house $40-50k Cheaper would work just fine as well.

We got swept away because we were building a home. So, we opted for the largest floor plan with less bells and whistles. But anyway....as I said, we feel fortunate to be where we’re at and have what we have. It’s all easier to see when you look back on it.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Phoenix87x on April 04, 2018, 04:25:38 PM
Oh damn. My neighbors are going at it. This is crazy.

I am on the 3rd floor and my neighbors pipe apparently has broke and its draining/spraying down into the person's place below her. So the sprayed person was banging on the door of the sprayer and freaking the fuk out. And now they are going at it. Damn

Apparently the sprayer just turned off the valve and the plumber is on the way, but they are both freaking out. Its quite a show
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: jasc15 on April 05, 2018, 10:52:47 AM
My wife and I are fortunate to have higher than median household income for our area, and we bought a house below median price, so even with high property taxes we are not swamped with the house payment.  To me, however, I don't see how the median house is affordable with the median household income around here.  Our utility bill isn't much different from when we rented a 2 bedroom apartment, and we haven't added any other recurring expenses since buying.

We have had our fair share of stress in the 5 months since we moved in.  With the single digit temperatures this winter, we had a few instances of frozen pipes and water leaking into the basement from the kitchen drain.  It wasn't that obvious at first, though.  We noticed water seeping up between 2 of the floor boards in the kitchen, far from any pipes.  It was a mystery that it still unsolved, since we had a plumber come twice to look at it with no real idea what the problem was.  What I will do this spring/summer is to get access to those pipes (which are covered by the only part of the basement ceiling that is finished) and put some heat tape on them with a thermostat control.

We also need to replace our main electrical panel and service cable from the exterior.  We knew this before we purchased, but underestimated the cost.  Every electrician is recommending upgrading to 200 amp service, which i think is totally unnecessary for our 1000 sq ft 2 bedroom ranch, however the price difference is about $500 on a $2500 job.  The biggest potential load would be central AC, which itself can run on a 30 amp circuit I think.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: gmillerdrake on May 25, 2018, 09:40:56 AM
This will be a long post, but wanted to show what I've been up to this spring. We've been on a mission since last Fall to transform our backyard. So, starting last September-ish we had a paito installed...I posted back then but this is what we had before:

(https://i.imgur.com/ElN5kET.jpg)

then we installed the patio:

(https://i.imgur.com/818qTb2.jpg)



So this spring I added some landscaping around that patio....very simple stuff but it enhanced it a bit:  (you can see the planter boxes I build as well for our back of the house windows..added planters to the patio also)

(https://i.imgur.com/S59ykOF.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/48mGG15.jpg)



So....with that portion out of the way there was something that I had wanted to do ever since we moved in. In the picture below (taken 4 years ago) you can kind of see in the bottom right corner where there is a natural rock face....this is where they had chiseled out the rock face to install a storm drain that runs down the back of all our properties. You can also see in that pic how the rock kind of peeks out every now and then along that ridge line. I was convinced that the rock face ran along that ridge line and that it was just backfilled after they installed the storm drain.

(https://i.imgur.com/0hawktD.jpg)

So, Fast Forward 4 years and I remained convinced I could reclaim that portion of my yard which was a small hill.....that I could dig out to the rock face and have a deeper..flatter yard.

Here's the back yard which show the small hill...early this spring (late winter)

(https://i.imgur.com/DPDgxNo.jpg)

You can see in this pic I started carving a bit at the top of the hill to see what all was under that dirt.

(https://i.imgur.com/5bVVJ2T.jpg)

A couple hours in and this is what I uncovered:

(https://i.imgur.com/qL9reXA.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/9cx8Y90.jpg)


So, I thought to myself maybe I just expose the top line of rock and then put a small knee high landscape wall at the bottom of the hill and then landscape/plant all the area between the two. The guy I know who built my patio has an area on his property he calls 'the brick yard' and he told me some time ago that I could use whatever materials I wanted out of there because it's all old stock that he can't use anymore. It's all surplus from old jobs that really isn't enough to start a new one. So, my dad and I went out one day and picked up some nice blocks that otherwise would have probably cost me $3 or $4 bucks a piece at least....these were free:

(https://i.imgur.com/B38jfgw.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/ai9yr5m.jpg)

So I started to dig and carve into the hill a bit....you can see how I thought maybe I'd thrown the wall in and then expose the top rock and landscape in between. BUT....this small strip of digging took me 6 hours and was a pain in the butt!!!!

(https://i.imgur.com/FXIWqSk.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/XIYTYAx.jpg)

So, I got to talking about this with the Son (and guy who actually installed the patio for us last year) and he told me that he was about to renovate his house and needed the construction documents drawn up. I, worked as an architectural draftsman for 7 years...so, he proposed we trade some drawing for some excavation work. Done deal. Moving dirt by shovel, pick and wheel barrel sucks.

He asked me what I wanted to do and I told him my real desire was to dig out all the dirt back and see if that rock face extended all along the back of our property or not. He said he was game....so.....

(https://i.imgur.com/NywdWHe.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/ByyMHck.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/BHnFUfY.jpg)

In (4) short hours he turned that hill into this:


(https://i.imgur.com/2AuFXEh.jpg)

They had just back filled with all the rock that was left over after they installed the storm drain....as I suspected. We used a lot of those large chunks to form a neat little wall and to create a burm on the hill side that was angled to the storm drain in my back yard.

Even after he had did the bulk of the work with the bobcat I ended up wheel barreling (15) loads of small chunks and dumped them into a creek behind my neighbors house. Then I power washed the rock face and started the process of getting it shaped up:

(https://i.imgur.com/eVTffAm.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/xXsSAPQ.jpg)


Did some prep work on the dirt to install sod and seeded the top of the hill with grass and wild flower seed:

(https://i.imgur.com/6KZZNjV.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/awxgYye.jpg)

Notice in that pic ^^^^ that I had moved all of the blocks Clark had given me to the top of the rock face. I still had a plan for those. I still made a small knee high wall about 5 foot back from the rock face front. I also used some of the natural stone we unearthed to create a border at the base of the wall.

(https://i.imgur.com/Td13ru4.jpg)

So then 'all' that was left was to get some mulch and spruce it up. I have plans to plant the upper tier mulched area....probably going to go with perennial grasses and easier to maintain plants like that. Ones that will get some height. Anything behind that small wall I've blasted with wild flower seed and plan to just let that and the burm return to natural state. I planted some Hastas under the trees because it's shady over there but the base of the wall I'm just going to pick a full sun ground cover plant and let it take over. I've stuck a couple ivy sprouts in a couple of the water run off cracks in the wall that have dirt in them....but I know it'll be a season or two before I get the foliage to where I want it. But, here's where I stand today. I can't tell you how satisfying it is to have this more or less done after (4) years of dreaming about it.


(https://i.imgur.com/Dz5EZXX.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/XfAO3AU.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/K9xu23t.jpg)

This is the area that was already chiseled out....I built the base up a bit to add dirt and mulch to plant:

(https://i.imgur.com/Ne1cuiV.jpg)


Pic taken this morning:

(https://i.imgur.com/PUJfQLv.jpg)



There you have it.....my spring time project  :lol    Sorry for the long post but wanted to share with you all....I'm just really excited about it   :biggrin:








Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: lordxizor on May 25, 2018, 09:52:30 AM
Looks awesome!

I had to shell out $10k yesterday on a new AC and furnace. The old ones were original to our 27 year old house, so I knew the end was nearing, but I was hoping to get a couple more years out of them. Especially since I just spent almost all of the money I had saved for house stuff upgrading the exterior after a hailstorm. Happens just in time for a mid-90s temp long weekend too. Can't get the new one installed until Wednesday so we get to sweat it out.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: jingle.boy on May 25, 2018, 10:41:22 AM
That's f'n awesome Gary.  So nice to have a bit of an oasis to enjoy when the weather allows.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: gmillerdrake on May 25, 2018, 10:50:54 AM
Looks awesome!

That's f'n awesome Gary.  So nice to have a bit of an oasis to enjoy when the weather allows.

Thanks  :tup

A couple of our neighbors chose to finish their basements....we're still holding off on that for a while. We really wanted that outdoor space and it's been great so far. The 'grand' plan is to turn our covered patio into a Four Seasons room....but that'll have to wait a bit.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Podaar on May 25, 2018, 10:53:51 AM
Very, very nice, Gary! I'm looking forward to the photos of the area filled with plants.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: gmillerdrake on May 25, 2018, 10:59:23 AM
Very, very nice, Gary! I'm looking forward to the photos of the area filled with plants.

You and me both  :lol   I never realized how expensive planting and landscaping could get. Between the new window planters, changing some things up in the front patio area and the new area around the patio....then the area by the trees.....I've spent a small fortune on plants already.

Gonna be a bit before I can spend $$ on planting up top of the rock face. Probably fall.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Cool Chris on May 25, 2018, 11:23:17 AM
Amazing! My house is on a super small lot, and my backyard isn't much bigger than a postage stamp, but just having that little oasis (as jingle put it) is worth every penny we have spent on it over the years.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Stadler on May 25, 2018, 12:26:05 PM
Here's one for you:  right before we bought the house we're in (August, 2015) we were thisclose to making an offer on another house that happens to be about 0.5 away (about half that as the crow flies).  But someone beat us to the punch.     Well!   It's on the market again.   Don't know if there are issues or not, but it's for sale, at the exact price it sold for back in July/August 2015.

Too soon to consider? 
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Podaar on May 25, 2018, 01:01:16 PM
Whoa, that's tough Stadler. My guess would be that it probably doesn't make a lot of financial sense. Still, I think if I were in your situation it would boil down to how much more you like the other house.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: ReaperKK on May 25, 2018, 06:56:38 PM
That is awesome! I finally babied our yard into somewhat of presentable shape. We are hoping to tackle the screened in porch soon.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: cramx3 on May 28, 2018, 04:13:14 PM
Wow Gary that looks pretty cool and really amazing how you did that
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: gmillerdrake on May 28, 2018, 05:53:46 PM
Wow Gary that looks pretty cool and really amazing how you did that

 :tup Thank you Sir!
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Implode on May 30, 2018, 07:47:15 AM
That's awesome! Now that I own a home, albeit just a townhome, I totally understand why so many people love doing improvement projects. Now every time I go into a hardware store, I want to buy and do everything.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: gmillerdrake on June 01, 2018, 08:29:34 AM
So....ummm......yeah.......


(https://i.imgur.com/x6665ti.jpg)



Been a bit of a whirlwind at the Miller household. Our decision to sell boils down to we really want to get our kiddos into the same school district my wife teaches in. We could send them there now given she's a teacher there  but the transport would be all on us and logistically it's near impossible given start times of the middle and elementary schools...work schedules etc. So we're gonna look for a home in her district which would be ideal. If nothing there then there is a really good district called 'Lindbergh' that we're going to target as well. Not that we dislike where the boys are at now but you always want the best for your kids and there's room for improvement.

Downsize...downsize....downsize. We LOVE this house we built. Really a 'dream' house but we've been going back and forth about do we really need a house this big? Cleaning it alone is a chore (3200 s.f.) then throw in utility costs of dual AC units....etc etc, we got to thinking about what was essential. We're looking to knock it down a notch to maybe 2000-2200 sf....have a nice rec room or finished basement dedicated to the three growing boys but other than that just have the essentials.

It kills me to leave the backyard oasis we created....it's really a relaxing area and I personally put a lot of work into it but I can make something like that wherever we land. Doing the work is most of the fun anyway. We've become great friends with a lot of our neighbors so that's always tough to leave but I know there are a couple of them we will stay in touch with and you can't base decisions that affect your family off of 'emotional' connections like that.

But another factor is financial. Our subdivision is completely built out now and yet still very desired to get into. There have been a few homes go on sale that are selling quick and for a pretty good price. It's really a sellers market right now in St. Louis. We had a few realtors come by and interviewed them and ran numbers and what not and bottom line is even after paying commissions and closing costs.....if we get what we list for.....we'd be taking home right around $100-105k. That's just impossible to ignore. We feel like the time is right to cash in on the equity in our home and re-invest it in another property.

That type of equity to then throw down on the next house we buy could potentially get us into a 15 year loan....or we're really liking the idea of lowering our mortgage payment and socking some $$ away giving us a bit more 'freedom' financially. We're also tinkering with the notion of maybe building again as there is a small (38) lot subdivision being built right now directly across from the High School in the district my wife teaches in....but we don't want to get too carried away because building can get a bit expensive. so we're going to meet with that builder today to run through some floor plan options on a smaller Ranch style house to see if it jives with our budget or not.

It's freaking crazy, but honestly we've talked about moving a few times over the past year or two and finally after seeing what this last house that sold in our subdivisions sold for it kind of prompted us to either  :censored or get off the pot.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: kaos2900 on June 01, 2018, 09:28:58 AM
Good luck! The time to sell is as good as it's going to be for the foreseeable future. It is a sellers market for sure and that is starting to change with the increase in interest rates but my realtor thinks it will stay hot for at least another year. I think I posted that we sold our house in 12 hours and got almost 10 grand more than we were asking. We're moving into a much larger house and I don't plan on moving again for at least another 15-20 years. The equity we're getting is going to allow us to pay off a carand pretty much furnish the whole house so we're set up pretty good for awhile.

Actually, we move in 10 days! We have been waiting for almost 6 months since we "bought" our new home. Exciting times for us though I forgot how much moving sucks.

I was actually to ask how much your patio construction cost. There is an old and small deck on the new home and we want to tear that down and just extend the patio. We had a huge deck on our current home and while it was nice the upkeep was atrocious.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: lordxizor on June 01, 2018, 09:34:50 AM
We're considering the some thing, though not terribly seriously. We could probably sell our place for $100k more than we owe. We recently got a new roof and siding due to a hailstorm so that adds to the value. Th problem is that we don't have a clear idea of what we would do instead. I'd like to get a little less house, but prices and interest rates have both gone up so it's unlikely we'd be able to save any money. So we'll likely stick it out, but I think about at least once a week.

Good luck with the selling process! Enjoy that backyard while you can.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: gmillerdrake on June 01, 2018, 09:41:03 AM
I was actually to ask how much your patio construction cost. There is an old and small deck on the new home and we want to tear that down and just extend the patio. We had a huge deck on our current home and while it was nice the upkeep was atrocious.

Well...we were very fortunate on that. I had a lifelong friend who's father in law and brother in law are brick masons. They primarily do Brick work on commercial buildings but have installed a handful of patios and landscape walls here and there. They cut me a great deal when they had a crew in between jobs last fall. I paid (3) guys $1000 cash each for three days of work....then had to buy the materials at cost which was $6200. So, $9200 in total. BUT I had gotten a quote from a local landscaping company prior to learning Clark and Ben could do it for me and was quoted $17,500. So I saved a significant amount of money....we were super blessed on that one.

And the rock wall excavation was a 'trade' of services. Ben came back and did that work (about 4 hours) for me and I drafted up and prepared a set of construction documents for his house renovation. Took me about 10-12 hours of time to do.

Anyway....that patio work seems to be pretty involved as far as prepping the area and all the substrate that goes down before hand. A lot of manual labor involved. Can get expensive. But keep in mind the patio I had quoted is 25' long by 19' wide with those half walls and fire pit. there's a lot of material there.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: gmillerdrake on June 01, 2018, 09:43:43 AM
We're considering the some thing, though not terribly seriously. We could probably sell our place for $100k more than we owe. We recently got a new roof and siding due to a hailstorm so that adds to the value. Th problem is that we don't have a clear idea of what we would do instead. I'd like to get a little less house, but prices and interest rates have both gone up so it's unlikely we'd be able to save any money. So we'll likely stick it out, but I think about at least once a week.

Good luck with the selling process! Enjoy that backyard while you can.

Thanks. Like I said....we talked about it a few times and finally just said 'lets go for it'. You only live once and I don't think we're risking all that much. Worse case scenario I end up with the same house payment in a bit smaller house without my backyard oasis..... :lol   
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: jingle.boy on June 01, 2018, 12:40:52 PM
If you can afford it, keep making the same payments, and shorten your loan amortization.  When interest rates crashed a number of years ago, we refinanced and took 5 years off the amortization period.  There's nothing like being mortgage free - especially before the kids hit post-secondary.

Good luck pal.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: cramx3 on June 01, 2018, 02:05:16 PM
Well if you think it's the best decision than go for it!  It's definitely a good time to sell if it's something you want to do.  Making a 100k profit sounds really nice too.  I just moved my gf out of her apartment wednesday and must say that moving totally sucks, but if I saw 100k dingling in front me, moving doesn't sound so bad then.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Phoenix87x on June 01, 2018, 08:38:39 PM

Downsize...downsize....downsize. We LOVE this house we built. Really a 'dream' house but we've been going back and forth about do we really need a house this big? Cleaning it alone is a chore (3200 s.f.) then throw in utility costs of dual AC units....etc etc, we got to thinking about what was essential. We're looking to knock it down a notch to maybe 2000-2200 sf....have a nice rec room or finished basement dedicated to the three growing boys but other than that just have the essentials.


You are talking my language. Growing up, I don't know why I was so anxious to try and buy some big house when I grew up, but I'm glad I didn't.

I have a 1 bedroom condo. Its amazingly comfortable and easy to take care of and has everything I need. $90,000 in a nice area and I put $20,000 down so my monthly expenses are super low:

Mortgage is $425
HOA Fee is $275   (which includes heat, water, trash, lawn care)
Electricity is $21

So yeah, Its great to downsize and I love living the minimalist lifestyle. Its nice to not have to live paycheck to paycheck and just use the extra cash to do fun things or save for retirement.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: millahh on June 02, 2018, 08:24:45 PM
That was about the last thing I expected Gary to post...but, good on you guys for being decisive, and for the quantitative/unemotional decision making.

So we're realizing that we don't know shit about landscaping, identifying/maintaining decorative plants, etc.  Any of you folks have a good place you could recommend to start?  Just today realized that we've been mowing over a few strawberry plants, and have like three different species of wild onion growing around the yard....
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: King Postwhore on June 02, 2018, 08:36:35 PM
Well, now you know two spots not to now anymore.   Lol


Map out your yard. It allows you to explore your yard and map out what you want to do.  I've told my wife, "Get it right or I mow over it".
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: ReaperKK on June 03, 2018, 12:43:22 PM
Wow that’s a lot to take home money wise!

What’s funny is my gf and I built a house a couple years ago and it was our dream house. Similar story to you, 3000sq ft brand new home and we did it because our mortgage is so much cheaper than our apartment (we were renting downtown for $2200 a month and our mortgage now is $1700 (all in with taxes, insurance)). Now we are thinking of getting a smaller house with more privacy on a lake. It’s crazy but there are rooms in my house I haven’t been in over a month.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: cramx3 on June 03, 2018, 01:45:48 PM
My mom always says things like "dont you want to live in a huge house some day?" like it is some status symbol or that it's such a life of luxury, but I always say no.  Not unless I become so rich that the maintenance costs are an afterthought.  I just don't need the space nor do I want to take care of all that space.  I have a 1000 sq ft house with a nice front/back yard and a man cave.  I don't need anything more nor do I want anything more. 

Anyway, my next door neighbor's house is on the market and it's got a really high price.  Hoping it sells that high (100k more than what I bought my house for).
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: ReaperKK on June 03, 2018, 06:05:31 PM
I think I had a little bit of that growing up. We were pretty poor growing up so I had to share a room with my little brother until I moved away to college. It sort of became a personal goal to have a large house as it was a sign of success to me, funny how that changes. I spend 40% of my time at home in my office, 40% of my time in the kitchen 20% sleeping.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: lordxizor on June 04, 2018, 06:34:09 AM
Owning a big house is the traditional American dream especially for the baby boomer generation. I think the younger folks (30s and under) are finally seeing that this is not always the best move for everyone and owning more modest homes or even (gasp!) renting long term is better for a lot of people. Buying less than you can afford is much better move financially long term that buying a big beautiful house and stretching yourself.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: gmillerdrake on June 04, 2018, 07:38:26 AM
That was about the last thing I expected Gary to post...

 :lol   You and me both. It was the culmination of multiple variables just colliding all at once. Couldn't be more at peace with it than we are right now...it actually feels like a relief as I thinks it's something we've both been leaning towards wanting to do but were reluctant to just go for it. Just praying we can sell quickly so we can get the kiddos school situation clarified.

So we're realizing that we don't know shit about landscaping, identifying/maintaining decorative plants, etc.  Any of you folks have a good place you could recommend to start?  Just today realized that we've been mowing over a few strawberry plants, and have like three different species of wild onion growing around the yard....

I'm far from a pro but I stick to planting all perennial plants. They'll come back year after year which is nice. The way I chose mine was really color and size. Just threw things together that 'looked' like they went well next to each other and all in all it's turned out pretty well. Just be careful with ground cover plants because those things do what they say they will. Those ground cover species really go gang busters and can take over an area.

Wow that’s a lot to take home money wise!

What’s funny is my gf and I built a house a couple years ago and it was our dream house. Similar story to you, 3000sq ft brand new home and we did it because our mortgage is so much cheaper than our apartment (we were renting downtown for $2200 a month and our mortgage now is $1700 (all in with taxes, insurance)). Now we are thinking of getting a smaller house with more privacy on a lake. It’s crazy but there are rooms in my house I haven’t been in over a month.

Anything we make is going straight towards the next mortgage. Lowering our monthly bill is a primary goal and with that type of equity we'll be getting back and the types of homes we're looking at we should be able to save $300-400 a month from what we're paying now.

We did the same thing when building 4 years ago. Really got swept away in the process and just built the 'dream' scenario. Then, like you mentioned.....you realize that you really don't use 1/4 of your house, like ever. It's such a waste of $$ and space.

I like the idea of the boys each having their own rooms but it's not necessarily an immediate priority in our next house. My brother and I shared a room until I was 16 and our youngest two have already volunteered to share a room in the next house if they have to. Shoot...on any given night in our house now they're all sleeping in the same room with mattresses thrown on the floor. We definitely need/want the house to have a space for them to play. We have a loft area now that is their 'spot' where they play their PS4 or just hang out when buddies are over so a finished basement or similar loft area is a must in the next home. Other than that.....we are really just looking to be practical.

I think I had a little bit of that growing up. We were pretty poor growing up so I had to share a room with my little brother until I moved away to college. It sort of became a personal goal to have a large house as it was a sign of success to me, funny how that changes.

This is totally me. I wouldn't say we were super poor but we definitely weren't wealthy. We never 'wanted' for anything as my parents always found a way for us to have things but we were certainly not rolling in $$. So, I think subconsciously somewhere attaining that 'big' house became a goal just to 'prove' that I had 'made it'. That along with the 'American Dream' that lordxizor spoke about just felt like we should build this big house. It was such a deviation from what we set out to do when we sold our house 4 years ago....but like I said, we really did get swept away once we realized that we 'could' build this house if we wanted to. Never stopping to think if we 'should'....if it was truly the right decision.

But we did and I'm not one to dwell on decisions....once they are made I just work with that set of circumstances and we could theoretically stay in this house the next 20 years and be perfectly fine. But, we both know that's not what's best for our family right now.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Podaar on June 04, 2018, 08:26:49 AM
I'm still pissed that I won't be able to see the oasis full of lush plants. :getoffmylawn: Rationalize it any way you want, Gary. Your still a disappointment.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: King Postwhore on June 04, 2018, 08:35:23 AM
I'm a garden widow until fall right now.  The Queen lives in her sanctuaries unless it rains.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: gmillerdrake on June 04, 2018, 08:39:23 AM
I'm still pissed that I won't be able to see the oasis full of lush plants. :getoffmylawn: Rationalize it any way you want, Gary. Your still a disappointment.

I know...I know....Believe me, that back yard is the only thing that makes me any bit sad about leaving this house. From the patio to that natural rock wall, it's EXACTLY how I envisioned it would look and it's 'this' close to being finished. It's a bummer to leave something that you worked hard making but I'll create something better at the next house.  ;)
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: cramx3 on June 04, 2018, 08:43:43 AM
I'm still pissed that I won't be able to see the oasis full of lush plants. :getoffmylawn: Rationalize it any way you want, Gary. Your still a disappointment.

I know...I know....Believe me, that back yard is the only thing that makes me any bit sad about leaving this house. From the patio to that natural rock wall, it's EXACTLY how I envisioned it would look and it's 'this' close to being finished. It's a bummer to leave something that you worked hard making but I'll create something better at the next house.  ;)

You could also use what you did as a learning experience and do something even cooler for your next home.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: gmillerdrake on June 04, 2018, 08:48:46 AM
I'm still pissed that I won't be able to see the oasis full of lush plants. :getoffmylawn: Rationalize it any way you want, Gary. Your still a disappointment.

I know...I know....Believe me, that back yard is the only thing that makes me any bit sad about leaving this house. From the patio to that natural rock wall, it's EXACTLY how I envisioned it would look and it's 'this' close to being finished. It's a bummer to leave something that you worked hard making but I'll create something better at the next house.  ;)

You could also use what you did as a learning experience and do something even cooler for your next home.

very true. Already know that while it's great and all and we love it.....a 25' long x 20' wide patio is a bit excessive. When I drew it up on CAD it looked like a good fit for that corner of the house but after seeing it built I could have trimmed that down a hair and saved some $$ and yard space and still had a killer patio.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Grappler on June 05, 2018, 07:56:35 AM
9pm last night, after wife, 3-year old and 7-month old are asleep:   Garage door opener control pad starts beeping intermittently with flashing lights. 

Kid's bedrooms are directly above the garage, so I don't want to mess with it too much and wake them up.  So I disconnect the control pad to keep the beeping from continuing and waking them up and research via google (garage door installation company left me with no instructions for the pad).  Google results make me believe that the control pad went kaput, but remotes in the cars will still work.  Don't want to test and wake kids up.

5am - leaving for work....remotes in cars do not open the garage.  Unplug/replug opener.  Lights go on.  Door will not open.   >:(

Hastily disengage door and fight to get it up (I have a side-mounted opener and had to hold the pull handle down with one hand and try to lift the door with a combination of my other hand and a foot, all while dressed for work)  Race to catch the train to work.  Thankfully the garage door company will send someone out this afternoon - worse case will be replacing the entire opener, which I think was about $500 for this model.  Ugh.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: gmillerdrake on June 05, 2018, 08:07:13 AM
^^^^^ Nothing worse than when technology fails....and it's a system that you know little about. Like, you rely on it to work all the time. Automatic Garage door openers are one of them. Probably a 'simple' fix but it's something you/we NEVER really have to fix and when it goes out you're like 'WTF?'
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Grappler on June 05, 2018, 07:06:35 PM
$140 for repairs/maintenance.  The control pad broke down and the tech said it's a common problem (also per my fabulous google searches).  So he replaced it.  I saw last night that the control pad is around $50, so we paid for a bit of labor too.  At least the guy did some maintenance on the rails too.  I just don't have the time right now to futz around with buying a pad on my own and installing it to hope that it works.

At least it's fixed!
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: gmillerdrake on June 05, 2018, 08:20:51 PM
Nothing like dropping a quick $140....geez. Just to make you feel a bit better, our microwave made an interesting ‘pop’ noise a couple nights ago then would not heat anything. Just made a really cool noise almost grinding noise yet it was electrical in nature like it  was going to detonate at any moment.

I stopped by the appliance store we bought it from 4 years ago and asked his opinion on who was best to call for repair. He told me....I called them. It’d have been $130 just to get them to my house....minimum 1 hour labor @ $125 on top of whatever the part/parts they’d have to order.  :omg:

I went back and talked to the manager of the store and he said a new one was $275 before tax (it’s part of the Frigidaire Gallery Series Kitchen Appliance Set) so I just ordered a new one. Picking it up tomorrow.

You gotta love those random, unexpected costs of owning a home.  :tup

Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: jingle.boy on June 05, 2018, 08:36:17 PM
Appliance quality ain't what it used to be.  That said, mrs.jingle and I are still on the same microwave we got when we first moved in together 20 years ago!!
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: gmillerdrake on June 05, 2018, 11:02:30 PM
Appliance quality ain't what it used to be.  That said, mrs.jingle and I are still on the same microwave we got when we first moved in together 20 years ago!!

Things like that are intentionally built to break.  It’s one of the things I detest about a consumerism society.....nothing is built to last anymore it’s all built to stop working after a few short years so you ‘have’ to buy another new one.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: lordxizor on June 06, 2018, 06:08:12 AM
In all fairness to the appliance manufacturers, if consumers demanded high quality and were willing to pay more for it, they would provide it. As a society, we are always looking for the cheapest cost for everything, usually at the expense of quality. We aren't willing to pay $1000 for a microwave that will last 30 years. We'd rather pay $300 for one that will last 5-8 years. We like to bitch about companies no longer providing quality like they used to, but it's our own damn fault they do it.

For me a huge part of it is the insane cost of repairs. When it's over $100 just for them to walk in the door it quickly becomes not worth trying to repair anything anymore.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: jingle.boy on June 06, 2018, 06:33:59 AM
I call bullshit on that.  The technology advancements reduce costs; manufacturing process improvements reduct costs; supply chain efficiencies reduce costs.  That 20-year old microwave I own cost me only a few hun back in 1998.  Appliances that my parents bought in the 70s wouldn't have cost multiple thousands - probably the same $1500-$2000 for a fridge, or $500-$1000 for a dishwasher.  I've gone thru 2 stoves, 3 diswhashers, 3 coffee makers, 2 toaster ovens, and 2 fridges in the last 16 years I've lived in my current house.  I can't believe that is anything but planned obsolescence.

We pay about the same for lower quality shit these days.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: King Postwhore on June 06, 2018, 06:37:01 AM
I'm getting a new Fridge and stove delivered Saturday.  First set We've bought since moving into our house 14 years ago.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: jingle.boy on June 06, 2018, 06:43:46 AM
I'm getting a new Fridge and stove delivered Saturday.  First set We've bought since moving into our house 14 years ago.

Start saving... you'll be buying again in 5-ish years.   :biggrin:
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: lordxizor on June 06, 2018, 06:44:05 AM
I call bullshit on that.  The technology advancements reduce costs; manufacturing process improvements reduct costs; supply chain efficiencies reduce costs.  That 20-year old microwave I own cost me only a few hun back in 1998.  Appliances that my parents bought in the 70s wouldn't have cost multiple thousands - probably the same $1500-$2000 for a fridge, or $500-$1000 for a dishwasher.  I've gone thru 2 stoves, 3 diswhashers, 3 coffee makers, 2 toaster ovens, and 2 fridges in the last 16 years I've lived in my current house.  I can't believe that is anything but planned obsolescence.

We pay about the same for lower quality shit these days.
Not sure if your numbers are inflation adjusted, but you can't forget about that. A $1000 refrigerator in 1970 would cost $6000 today and not many people are spending that much for a refrigerator.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: King Postwhore on June 06, 2018, 06:45:53 AM
I'm getting a new Fridge and stove delivered Saturday.  First set We've bought since moving into our house 14 years ago.

Start saving... you'll be buying again in 5-ish years.   :biggrin:

Kenmore has never done me wrong.......so far.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: King Postwhore on June 06, 2018, 06:47:11 AM
My parents fridge in 1977 cost $359.

Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: lordxizor on June 06, 2018, 06:58:19 AM
Planned obsolescence is certainly part of the problem, but I think that is in large part driven by the consumer. Though there is definitely some corporate greed at play.

A $359 fridge in 1970 would cost over $2000 today, which is not out of the question, but there are tons of fridges for well less than that and I'm guess they sell very well.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: King Postwhore on June 06, 2018, 07:17:04 AM
Oh and there are models out there that do cost that.  SS bodies, with ice and water dispensers.  I got no frills on mine.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: jingle.boy on June 06, 2018, 07:27:47 AM
https://www.usinflationcalculator.com/  -  $359 in 1977 = $1,488 today.

As I said, we're paying about the same today (inflation adjusted) for lesser quality (by-and-large).
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Podaar on June 06, 2018, 07:29:25 AM
I've gone thru 2 stoves, 3 diswhashers, 3 coffee makers, 2 toaster ovens, and 2 fridges in the last 16 years I've lived in my current house.  I can't believe that is anything but planned obsolescence.

Have you ever thought it might be you? Sounds to me like you need to open your check book and buy better quality appliances!


I call bullshit on that.  The technology advancements reduce costs; manufacturing process improvements reduct costs; supply chain efficiencies reduce costs. 

To a point and not indefinitely. The greatest gains in these areas were during the 1990s. Diminishing returns now, unless they move the plant to Singapore, of course.

You want appliances that are built to last and perhaps even become family heirlooms?  Don't buy the least expensive model at the most affordable store.

BTW, Sears has never been a manufacturer of appliances. Everything that has ever worn the label Kenmore, Hotspot or Coldspot is simply another companies product private labeled to Sears. What you're really getting is a Whirlpool, GE or Fridgidare depending on the appliance.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: jingle.boy on June 06, 2018, 07:39:28 AM
I've gone thru 2 stoves, 3 diswhashers, 3 coffee makers, 2 toaster ovens, and 2 fridges in the last 16 years I've lived in my current house.  I can't believe that is anything but planned obsolescence.

Have you ever thought it might be you? Sounds to me like you need to open your check book and buy better quality appliances!

I'll assume you forgot to put that in green font.  ;)  I always go with Consumers Reports highly rated appliances / best value for money.  Last month, our 2-year old coffee maker (Cuisinart - $200... 2nd time we had that model already) just refused to start the brewing cycle.  I buy middle / top shelf precisely because I don't want to be regularly replacing big ticket items.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: King Postwhore on June 06, 2018, 08:05:01 AM
I've gone thru 2 stoves, 3 diswhashers, 3 coffee makers, 2 toaster ovens, and 2 fridges in the last 16 years I've lived in my current house.  I can't believe that is anything but planned obsolescence.

Have you ever thought it might be you? Sounds to me like you need to open your check book and buy better quality appliances!


I call bullshit on that.  The technology advancements reduce costs; manufacturing process improvements reduct costs; supply chain efficiencies reduce costs. 

To a point and not indefinitely. The greatest gains in these areas were during the 1990s. Diminishing returns now, unless they move the plant to Singapore, of course.

You want appliances that are built to last and perhaps even become family heirlooms?  Don't buy the least expensive model at the most affordable store.

BTW, Sears has never been a manufacturer of appliances. Everything that has ever worn the label Kenmore, Hotspot or Coldspot is simply another companies product private labeled to Sears. What you're really getting is a Whirlpool, GE or Fridgidare depending on the appliance.

Yup.  I've known that.  The quality is still very good.  Never had issues and great longevity.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: King Postwhore on June 06, 2018, 08:06:44 AM
Shit. Chad, $200 for a coffee maker?  I've never spent more than $60. :lol
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: jingle.boy on June 06, 2018, 08:14:58 AM
Shit. Chad, $200 for a coffee maker?  I've never spent more than $60. :lol

It has a built in grinder, and is a stainless steel carafe - which seemingly is a rarity these days.

Plus...  CAD
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: cramx3 on June 06, 2018, 08:30:10 AM
I just buy the cheap stuff (assuming it still fits my needs/wants) and have the expectation it won't last.  Nothing does these days.  I just buy the $80 vacuum cleaner and am happy to get a few years out of it and don't think twice when it breaks to toss it and get another cheap one.

If it was something more important, like a fridge, I could see myself going for a better option though.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: King Postwhore on June 06, 2018, 08:38:48 AM
I have this craft style one that you push your cup against a button and the coffee pours out.  No more old school glass.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Stadler on June 06, 2018, 08:48:15 AM
I call bullshit on that.  The technology advancements reduce costs; manufacturing process improvements reduct costs; supply chain efficiencies reduce costs.  That 20-year old microwave I own cost me only a few hun back in 1998.  Appliances that my parents bought in the 70s wouldn't have cost multiple thousands - probably the same $1500-$2000 for a fridge, or $500-$1000 for a dishwasher.  I've gone thru 2 stoves, 3 diswhashers, 3 coffee makers, 2 toaster ovens, and 2 fridges in the last 16 years I've lived in my current house.  I can't believe that is anything but planned obsolescence.

We pay about the same for lower quality shit these days.

And ever-increasing raises for workers doing the same job they did in 1974 raise costs.  Forced healthcare for ALL employees raises costs.  Insurance for lawsuits from morons that burn their taste-buds from hot coffee raises costs.  Unilateral and forced compliance with global environmental standards raises costs.  If  you're going to parse out the "cost of goods sold" you have to go whole hog on that puppy and look at ALL the costs. 

I worked for GE for about a decade, and for a time I was part of the group that had Appliances, Lighting and Consumer Electronics (circuit breakers and shit like that, not coffee pots and stereos).   Single greatest line item in the manufacturing COGS?   HEALTHCARE.  Second biggest?  LABOR.    Wasn't third, but in the top five or so?  ENVIRONMENTAL. 

Goods are not purposefully built to have a shorter life-span, but whoever said that consumers are not willing to pay what it actually costs for quality was spot on.  They're just not.   People pay for features, plain and simple.   Plus you factor in that people don't maintain like they used to - how many times have you vacuumed the dust out of your microwave?  I have a complete DT catalogue that says "NEVER" - and you have a shorter lifespan.     

Oh, and "corporate greed"?  The margin on appliances is as thin as the gossamer wings on a Victoria Secret model.   They would work around 5% to 7% overall (it varied, though, across products; refrigerators weren't the same as, say, air conditioners or stoves).   That's about 1/10th the margin of that phone that's in your hand right now showing videos from Pornhub.   Microsoft and Apple generally are in the 35% range.  Most businesses are in the 20% range.   The geniuses on Shark Tank would laugh you out of the studio if you came in and said "My margins are 5%!".   Mr. Wonderful:  "I'm out!". 
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Podaar on June 06, 2018, 08:49:49 AM
I've gone thru 2 stoves, 3 diswhashers, 3 coffee makers, 2 toaster ovens, and 2 fridges in the last 16 years I've lived in my current house.  I can't believe that is anything but planned obsolescence.

Have you ever thought it might be you? Sounds to me like you need to open your check book and buy better quality appliances!

I'll assume you forgot to put that in green font.  ;)  I always go with Consumers Reports highly rated appliances / best value for money.  Last month, our 2-year old coffee maker (Cuisinart - $200... 2nd time we had that model already) just refused to start the brewing cycle.  I buy middle / top shelf precisely because I don't want to be regularly replacing big ticket items.

And yet, you have replaced your dishwasher 3 times in 16 years. I bought a Fisher Paykel dual in 2001 for $1,400 and have never had it serviced, never had to replace a part and it has only failed once. It failed because I hadn't cleaned the seal on the bottom drawer well enough so water leaked onto the control PC board. The board was designed so well that the troubleshooting guide that came with my machine literally said to dry it out with a hair dryer and press the reset button. Now that's great engineering and it worked like a charm.

I don't know, maybe I have better luck because I tend to schedule in maintenance for my stuff. For example, I clean the dishwasher every two - three months. It takes about 10 minutes and two bottles of this stuff Dishwasher magic (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00OFOZQ7O?tag=amz-mkt-chr-us-20&ascsubtag=1ba00-01000-a0049-win70-other-nomod-us000-pcomp-feature-scomp-wm-5&ref=aa_scomp)

I just buy the cheap stuff (assuming it still fits my needs/wants) and have the expectation it won't last.  Nothing does these days.  I just buy the $80 vacuum cleaner and am happy to get a few years out of it and don't think twice when it breaks to toss it and get another cheap one.

See, this is also what I'm on about. I bought one of the DC14 Dysons in the early 2000's and it still works fantastic. It will probably out live me.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Stadler on June 06, 2018, 08:58:07 AM
As an aside, the frig in my house is best guess 20 years old, and we're looking at a new one.  We've already upgraded the dishwasher, the stove (I went to gas, babay!) and now the frig is next.   They have refrigerators now that I can theoretically reply to you old farts FROM THE TOUCH SCREEN.  How whack is that?  I thought refrigerators were to keep my eggs cold, and give me ice for my vodka soda splash of ginger that I use to escape after the kids go to bed? 

And they have these neat "pocket doors" (I don't know what the marketing phrase is for them) that you can open without opening the full fridge to get your drinks or other small items.   How great/lazy as f*** is that!   :) :) :)
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Grappler on June 06, 2018, 09:01:23 AM
I don't know, maybe I have better luck because I tend to schedule in maintenance for my stuff. For example, I clean the dishwasher every two - three months. It takes about 10 minutes and two bottles of this stuff Dishwasher magic (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00OFOZQ7O?tag=amz-mkt-chr-us-20&ascsubtag=1ba00-01000-a0049-win70-other-nomod-us000-pcomp-feature-scomp-wm-5&ref=aa_scomp)

Vinegar will do the same thing, and it's a lot cheaper.  2 Cups of vinegar in the cycle and it will remove all of the scale buildup in the machine (and on dishes too!). 
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Podaar on June 06, 2018, 09:06:51 AM

Goods are not purposefully built to have a shorter life-span, but whoever said that consumers are not willing to pay what it actually costs for quality was spot on.  They're just not.   People pay for features, plain and simple.   Plus you factor in that people don't maintain like they used to - how many times have you vacuumed the dust out of your microwave?  I have a complete DT catalogue that says "NEVER" - and you have a shorter lifespan.     


The bolded can't be stressed enough. Stad's is dead on with this. Commercial versions of consumer appliances are completely opposite.

All the whizzbang features on consumer Dryers, for example, are not necessary for drying clothes and add complexity that creates failures. Anything man made will fail. Period. Commercial dryers that run day in and day out for decades have a temperature setting and a time setting. That's it. They aren't programmable (unless it's a coin-op), they don't inject steam for "wrinkle-release", they don't have moisture detection, they don't play a happy tune when they're done, they won't send you a text message. All the money spent on manufacturing them goes into making them strong and easy to clean the lint from.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Podaar on June 06, 2018, 09:08:54 AM
I don't know, maybe I have better luck because I tend to schedule in maintenance for my stuff. For example, I clean the dishwasher every two - three months. It takes about 10 minutes and two bottles of this stuff Dishwasher magic (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00OFOZQ7O?tag=amz-mkt-chr-us-20&ascsubtag=1ba00-01000-a0049-win70-other-nomod-us000-pcomp-feature-scomp-wm-5&ref=aa_scomp)

Vinegar will do the same thing, and it's a lot cheaper.  2 Cups of vinegar in the cycle and it will remove all of the scale buildup in the machine (and on dishes too!).

I don't know, we have pretty hard water out here, but I'll give it a try. Really, I need to get off my dead ass and install a quality water softener, that would cure a lot of issues I think.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: jingle.boy on June 06, 2018, 09:12:08 AM
@ Stads and the cost issue.  I'm not disputing your knowledge as it relates to GE, but on the whole, puh-leeze.  First, you're suggesting that wage-inflation is greater than general inflation.  Inflation adjusted earnings are fairly flat since the mid-70s (https://www.aboutinflation.com/_/rsrc/1366246464557/salary-and-inflation/average-earnings-us/us-earnings-inflation-adjusted-male-age-25-historical/US_Earnings_per_year_inflation_adjusted_male_age_25_plus_historical_chart_2012.png).  Second, how many appliances are actually built in the US? I know for TVs and blu-ray players, it's somewhere in the range of 0%.  Samsung and LG are also pretty big players in the general household appliance space.

This wasn't meant to be a discussion on wages and healthcare costs, so I don't want to derail it in that direction.

And yet, you have replaced your dishwasher 3 times in 16 years.

Precisely my point... quality is not what it used to be.  For clarity, I meant to say I'm *on* my 3rd dishwasher - not that I've replaced it 3 times.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: King Postwhore on June 06, 2018, 09:12:48 AM
I was told by a repair guy that the front load washers cost a bot load to repair.  Stay with the top load.  I got an energy saver version of the top load.  Only $550.00.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: lordxizor on June 06, 2018, 09:22:26 AM
There is a certain level of nostalgia about old things as well. Not to say they weren't built stronger and last at least somewhat longer back then, but I think that gets overblown a bit. Everyone looks at their grandparents 1970's fridge that's still running and laments the loss of quality over the years. No one remembers their uncle, cousin, neighbor, and everyone else they know that had to replace their fridge multiple times in the time frame. We look at the one outlier that has lasted a long time and draw conclusions about everything.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Podaar on June 06, 2018, 09:25:54 AM
I was told by a repair guy that the front load washers cost a bot load to repair.  Stay with the top load.  I got an energy saver version of the top load.  Only $550.00.

Yes, top load washer repair parts are generally inexpensive because they are mass produced cheaply, but you also have to repair them more often. Top loaders are also painfully inefficient with water and soap usage, cleaning effectiveness, and water extraction (the higher the extract speed the less time in the dryer).

If you'd spent that same $550.00 on a front load LG with direct drive and reduced features (that no one needs) you'd have been money ahead.

And yet, you have replaced your dishwasher 3 times in 16 years.

Precisely my point... quality is not what it used to be.  For clarity, I meant to say I'm *on* my 3rd dishwasher - not that I've replaced it 3 times.

I don't know, dude. You may be right but I think you may be giving away too much of your personal responsibility...either by the decisions you make about the product you buy or they way the products are treated.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: King Postwhore on June 06, 2018, 09:29:10 AM
Our first front load washer lasted 12 years.  We've had this new one for 2 years.  Our dryer is 14 years old and it only needed the belt replaced once.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Stadler on June 06, 2018, 10:00:28 AM
@ Stads and the cost issue.  I'm not disputing your knowledge as it relates to GE, but on the whole, puh-leeze.  First, you're suggesting that wage-inflation is greater than general inflation.  Inflation adjusted earnings are fairly flat since the mid-70s (https://www.aboutinflation.com/_/rsrc/1366246464557/salary-and-inflation/average-earnings-us/us-earnings-inflation-adjusted-male-age-25-historical/US_Earnings_per_year_inflation_adjusted_male_age_25_plus_historical_chart_2012.png).  Second, how many appliances are actually built in the US? I know for TVs and blu-ray players, it's somewhere in the range of 0%.  Samsung and LG are also pretty big players in the general household appliance space.

This wasn't meant to be a discussion on wages and healthcare costs, so I don't want to derail it in that direction.

I do!  Fuck yeah!  I'm kidding; I don't either, except to say "earnings" and "labor cost" are not the same thing.   The money a company pays to it's employee is a fraction, anywhere from 30 to 70% +/-, of the cost to the company.  And you'd be surprised; the GE plant is in Louisville, KY, and while this might have changed, when I was there, the campus contained the largest privately owned (meaning non-railroad company) railyard in the U.S.   They will source components from outside the US, but a large portion of the assembly is done in the US.   I don't know if they still do, but GE used to put the percentage of US manufacture right on the label.  Hang on, I'll go check the dishwasher......


Precisely my point... quality is not what it used to be.  For clarity, I meant to say I'm *on* my 3rd dishwasher - not that I've replaced it 3 times.

Speaking of "on" your dishwasher, in my dorm at college the laundry room was very popular place during/after dorm parties...  just throwing that out there.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: jingle.boy on June 06, 2018, 11:59:36 AM
Fair point on wages vs fully burdened headcount costs.

And *on* an appliance ... not sure if I'm titillated, or disgusted.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Orbert on June 06, 2018, 12:21:05 PM
Doesn't matter what the guy thinks.  If she's into it, it's a good thing.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: ReaperKK on June 17, 2018, 01:10:40 PM
Welp after getting my lawn in amazing shape this year I'm done trying to fight the heat. We haven't had rain in 2 weeks and I'm tired of watering the lawn wasting water and paying a fortune to do so.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: gmillerdrake on June 17, 2018, 02:19:48 PM
Welp after getting my lawn in amazing shape this year I'm done trying to fight the heat. We haven't had rain in 2 weeks and I'm tired of watering the lawn wasting water and paying a fortune to do so.

Yeah. It’s brutal. We’re forecast for a chance of thunderstorms every day this week but I’ve been watering the  :censored out of our yard given our house is in the market. I fear my next water bill more than anything right now.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: jingle.boy on June 17, 2018, 02:49:20 PM
Welp after getting my lawn in amazing shape this year I'm done trying to fight the heat. We haven't had rain in 2 weeks and I'm tired of watering the lawn wasting water and paying a fortune to do so.

Yeah. It’s brutal. We’re forecast for a chance of thunderstorms every day this week but I’ve been watering the  :censored out of our yard given our house is in the market. I fear my next water bill more than anything right now.

I just spent almost an hour trouble-shooting my in-ground sprinkler (front yard zone was not coming on from the controller), only to make it worse (now 2 zones aren't coming on :zeltar:).  They work just fine when I open the main valve from the outside, but the controller ain't doin shit.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Phoenix87x on June 30, 2018, 01:20:56 PM
Do you guys get a separate, individual bill for the year's school tax?  I just got one out of the blue for like $1400. I thought it was built in the mortgage payment which has some items in escrow like insurance, property tax and I thought school tax, but I guess not.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Cool Chris on June 30, 2018, 01:50:32 PM
Property taxes are usually all rolled in to one bill, which is most often (I thought) paid out of your escrow account.

Maybe your local teacher's union is pissed off at the JANUS decision and taking matters in to their own hands   :biggrin:
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Stadler on June 30, 2018, 09:28:42 PM
Welp after getting my lawn in amazing shape this year I'm done trying to fight the heat. We haven't had rain in 2 weeks and I'm tired of watering the lawn wasting water and paying a fortune to do so.

Yeah. It’s brutal. We’re forecast for a chance of thunderstorms every day this week but I’ve been watering the  :censored out of our yard given our house is in the market. I fear my next water bill more than anything right now.

I just spent almost an hour trouble-shooting my in-ground sprinkler (front yard zone was not coming on from the controller), only to make it worse (now 2 zones aren't coming on :zeltar:).  They work just fine when I open the main valve from the outside, but the controller ain't doin shit.

Check your relays.  I had that problem when I moved in.   
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: jingle.boy on July 01, 2018, 05:06:26 AM
I ended up having to call my landscaper in to fix it.  Long story short, he was just as perplexed about why it wasn't working.  Power was flowing in to the valve, and we could open the valve to 'manually' turn the problem zone on, and the control panel could turn it off, but the panel couldn't 'start' it.  He was going to replace one component of the valve, but the system is so old (made in the 80s) that there aren't any compatible parts.  So, he ended up replacing the entire valve system for all the zones.  Full-day's work - not looking forward to that bill, since we're going to be moving out of this house in the next 12 months!  Oh well, at least I can market it as a "brand new" sprinkler system.   :lol
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: gmillerdrake on July 01, 2018, 08:50:00 AM
A few weeks ago I mentioned we were selling our home.....well, we decided to pull it from the market.

Nothing will make you appreciate what you have more than when you start to look around at homes that are 30 years older than yours in neighborhoods where the ‘life’ seems to be non existent. (Meaning no kids running around, neighbors outside talking to one another etc etc.)

Plus, near all the feedback we received about our home went along the lines of something like “beautiful home....but for that price we could build a new one on our own” or....”love the house but for that price we’d expect granite countertops and new carpet throughout”

Understandable feedback and opinions but we were never going to put new carpet in or granite countertops to sell our house because we really didn’t ‘need’ to sell it. It was an experiment with the market to see if we could get a quick hit sale at asking price and pocket $100k to slap down on our next loan. With school starting mid August and being less than impressed with what we were seeing out there available.....we decided to pull our house and stay put.

Which honestly we all are happy with and feel good about. Like I said, this experience helped us realize how blessed and fortunate we are to be where we’re at. Neighborhood is fun, we’ve made many close friends here and the kiddos get to stay locked in with the friends they’ve made. So it’s all good.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: gmillerdrake on July 01, 2018, 09:00:48 AM
I'm still pissed that I won't be able to see the oasis full of lush plants. :getoffmylawn: Rationalize it any way you want, Gary. Your still a disappointment.

Oasis plan back on!!!! Gotta re-focus and start to put the finishing touches on the back yard. Probably wait until fall being that summer is in full effect now.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: cramx3 on July 09, 2018, 08:54:06 AM
Nothing wrong with testing the market. You got some real feedback and made a better decision knowing what you now know for next time you might be making a move.

A house on my street just hit the market. Literally the same house as mine in terms of original build, but asking price is $120k more than what I paid. I'd be surprised if someone bought it, that seems like too much, but I will be happy if it sells for that.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: jasc15 on July 25, 2018, 12:05:16 PM
Ive begun demolition on my basement which was finished some time in the 70's, and has mold issues.  I've been reading all sorts of opinions on how to properly insulate and water proof basements, but finally came across an authoritative source, the Building Sciences Corporation.

https://buildingscience.com/documents/bareports/ba-0309-renovating-your-basment/view

XPS rigid foam on top of concrete wall allows slow permeation of moisture through, rather than an impermeable barrier which would allow condensation and mold.  This, plus furring strips and drywall, and thats the story.  I'm tired of anecdotes that worked for some guy's house.  You can't stop the moisture, only manage it properly.

Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: cramx3 on July 25, 2018, 12:25:56 PM
You can't stop the moisture, only manage it properly.

Seems like a true statement.

My house has some moisture issues in the basement.  I bought the house and the lady left the AC off in the summer for two months after she moved out before we closed and I moved in.  In the meantime, the basement sweated like crazy, there were small puddles on the concrete floor and wet walls.  We were close to not closing thinking this lady didn't tell us about issues, but realized the airflow was really poor and we could resolve this by just turning on the AC in the house.

Now since then, the AC just makes the basement not sweat, but doesn't really keep the moisture out enough.  The lady had like a vent installed in the basement to remove air from the basement and shoot it outside.  I also got a dehumidifier.  We then added another vent for the central air to push air in the basement.  Eventually my AC unit failed and I got a much better one that has pretty good dehumidifier as well so I stopped using the stand alone and just set the humidity level low in my house and it just runs and takes care of it now.  I pretty much have no issues with moisture anymore.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: The Walrus on July 25, 2018, 12:28:14 PM
This thread is a goldmine of information since I've found myself looking into buying a house. Just want to say thanks :)
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: gmillerdrake on August 02, 2018, 09:19:37 AM
Was at LOWES on Tuesday and noticed they had a bunch of their perennial's considerably marked down....all $1 or less. Despite them not being in full bloom I scooped (52) plants up. Some are fall blooming so there's a good chance they'll bloom this fall....but I had to do it. "List" price total from the tags pre-tax was $318....final bill after tax was $74 and some change.

So here's a couple pics of the 'wall' project from this past spring with some plants planted. I have (3) more I want to buy to plant in the middle of the three sections still open up top....I'm wanting to get some Reddish perennial grasses....anyway.

One thing I did was re-arrange some of the end of the wall boulders I had set in place to create kind of a 'natural' end cap planter, her's a pic with the one in the upper left as a 'before' and the others are 'after':

(https://i.imgur.com/XrxN9bR.jpg)


A couple overview shots:

(https://i.imgur.com/6a5dvKG.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/HLrxSdX.jpg)

And you can see that the wildflower seeds I blasted the backside of the wall with are starting to pop through:

(https://i.imgur.com/c3VPcCw.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/VbXTEme.jpg)


And I took a panoramic for the heck of it:

(https://i.imgur.com/0EzSPt5.jpg)



One thing that sucks and that I have to get on is this heat has destroyed the sod I installed in the spring. Gonna have to throw some TLC into it here in the fall months.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: cramx3 on August 02, 2018, 09:27:23 AM
Nice

I did some weeding last weekend as the brush pickup for the town was this week and damn this is why having a house sucks  :lol  The heat made it so miserable, I kept having to go inside to hydrate and cool off.  I didn't even get to finish, but I got my main goal done.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: jingle.boy on August 02, 2018, 09:49:02 AM
That looks smokin dude!
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: vtgrad on August 02, 2018, 10:26:20 AM
That wall looks great Gary! 

And where have I been... never seen this thread before.  Need to start posting more I guess!

My wife and I threw this down last October:

(https://i358.photobucket.com/albums/oo26/joshuarowland/Firepit%203_zpsveurcwhf.jpg)

(https://i358.photobucket.com/albums/oo26/joshuarowland/Firepit%201_zpsphbhuae5.jpg)

(https://i358.photobucket.com/albums/oo26/joshuarowland/Firepit%202_zpskjsiksin.jpg)

We have enjoyed it immensely since then!  Dug the ring out of the ground ourselves and placed the flagstones and boulders ourselves (one man boulders my a$$)... I designed it and had a friend deliver the stones.  Also dug a few stones out of the Holston River to fill in the gaps.  All in all I'm very pleased with it!
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: gmillerdrake on August 02, 2018, 10:28:43 AM
Nice

That looks smokin dude!

That wall looks great Gary! 

 :tup
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: gmillerdrake on August 02, 2018, 10:30:03 AM
My wife and I threw this down last October:

***snip***

We have enjoyed it immensely since then!  Dug the ring out of the ground ourselves and placed the flagstones and boulders ourselves (one man boulders my a$$)... I designed it and had a friend deliver the stones.  Also dug a few stones out of the Holston River to fill in the gaps.  All in all I'm very pleased with it!

Yeah...that looks awesome!!! Back yard fire pits are so fun. Really good job on that.  :tup
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: vtgrad on August 02, 2018, 10:32:25 AM
My wife and I threw this down last October:

***snip***

We have enjoyed it immensely since then!  Dug the ring out of the ground ourselves and placed the flagstones and boulders ourselves (one man boulders my a$$)... I designed it and had a friend deliver the stones.  Also dug a few stones out of the Holston River to fill in the gaps.  All in all I'm very pleased with it!

Yeah...that looks awesome!!! Back yard fire pits are so fun. Really good job on that.  :tup

Thanks man!  Inside the boulder ring is an actual 2' deep pit lined with river rock and sand, so we really have some raging fires if I don't carefully manage the airflow.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Podaar on August 02, 2018, 10:36:25 AM
I'm planning a fire pit for next year. Good job, vtgrad!

Gary,

I like what you've done and it will look real cool when the plants mature!

Holy shit, your sod took a beating! I've had pretty good luck with seeding in the fall and then over-seeding near the end of winter before last of the snow is gone. All my lawn is blue-grass though, I don't know what kind of grass you grow there so I don't know if my method would work for you.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: cramx3 on August 02, 2018, 10:59:34 AM
Love the fire pit, also love how you pulled some of the stones out of a river yourself  :yarr
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: gmillerdrake on August 02, 2018, 12:15:30 PM
Gary,

I like what you've done and it will look real cool when the plants mature!

Holy shit, your sod took a beating! I've had pretty good luck with seeding in the fall and then over-seeding near the end of winter before last of the snow is gone. All my lawn is blue-grass though, I don't know what kind of grass you grow there so I don't know if my method would work for you.

It was Fescue sod. The issue was two fold. First, I should have prepped the ground a bit better than I did prior to laying the sod. I spread some fertilizer designed for pre-sod dirt but the dirt itself wasn’t very thick/deep. I should have brought in a layer of clean top soil but I didn’t.

Then to make things worse we got hammered in a three week stretch where it was blistering heat outside. Lots of 95 degree plus weather with zero precipitation. I watered the sod but it was just so freaking hot and there is zero shade in that part of the yard. Just got cooked.

I think I’m going to bring in a bit of top soil and spread a light layer across the dead sod.....over seed and just go from there when it cools down in the fall. I think between that and then re-seeding/over seeding in the spring I should be able to get something going. Plus, I bought a sprinkler system that has a timer now so it’s getting regular watering.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: vtgrad on August 02, 2018, 01:56:36 PM
Love the fire pit, also love how you pulled some of the stones out of a river yourself  :yarr

Thank you!  :tup  Pulling the stone out of the Holston River (North Fork runs beside one of my offices) was an adventure for my wife and I; took two five gallon buckets, stood in the middle of the river bed flowing about mid calf, and filled them half-way full each trip so that we could get back up the slope to the truck and dump them.  Made three trips there, four or five trips down-stream several miles and made two or three trips at an old fishing spot of my father's upstream from my office.  Found out later that pulling stones from that river (even the small amount that we pulled and being careful not to pull some much as to change the course of the river) would have landed me in hot water if a game-warden had seen it.  Makes for a good story!

The boulders and flagstone are some Hokie Stone (grey dolomite-limestone) and mostly Virginia Flagstone (Sandstone quartzite).
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: jingle.boy on September 07, 2018, 04:28:44 AM
Fuk you Gawy Miwwerrr... I did buy a house!

https://www.myvisuallistings.com/pfs/263856

I should probably think about selling my existing house now.   :lol

tl;dr... bought a house, moving in Feb 28th

The story:
With the jingle.kids off to school, mrs.jingle and I had always known there was nothing holding us to the city where we live and planned to move shortly after they went off to school.  We love our house and property, but the city is turning to the shits - growing way too fast is causing a lot of other problems.  Ever since jingle.daughter's car accident in June, we've really noticed how dangerous driving is around here, crime is getting really bad, the infrastructure can't support the growth, and we have a huge south-asian population (like, greater than 50%), many who don't seem to adapt to Canadian culture very well (eg, terrible drivers).  I could make an entire huge-assed post just about how much I hate this city and can't get out fast enough, but I digress.

So this summer, we started casually looking around at houses in the Niagara region (somewhat close to where jingle.daughter is going to school - which would give her the option of living at home come 2nd year).  Mrs.jingle is committed (professionally) to staying here in our city until the end of October, so we aren't ready to sell our house until then.  But, we were definitely wanting to buy first, since this will (hopefully) be our 30-year home to live and grow old in together.  We were just looking to get a sense of what we liked/didn't like, where we liked/didn't like, what we could get for our budget etc...  Unless we found the perfect house, we really weren't wanting to buy/move until after Christmas.  Turns out, we found the perfect house.  One of our goals is that we were looking for a place that would be part way between the two schools that the jingle.kids were going to.  The only knock on this house is that it isn't that - it's further away from jingle.son, while still being relatively close enough to jingle.daughter that she could commute.

Absolutely love the house, huge/gorgeous property, move-in ready, end of Feb closing.  It's 5-minutes from the border in Buffalo (hence the big Sabres man-cave (none of which stays).  Pretty much all the stars aligned for us here.  After we saw this one, everything else paled in comparison - and a lot of places we saw were absolute tripe for the price that was being asked.  When we finally came to the realization that everything else we saw was a house, but this place felt like a home...  we knew we found our place.

So, time to start getting the current jingle.house in shape to be sold.  Nothing major... a few minor touchups, and a lot of de-cluttering.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Indiscipline on September 07, 2018, 05:31:40 AM
Very lovely indeed, and the Jacuzzi is just the right not-small-not-large-but-cozy dirty size.

The mancave just screams Music Room.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: ReaperKK on September 07, 2018, 06:18:22 AM
That’s awesome Jingle I’m happy for you!

As for the Asian population I noticed in some areas it’s massive. My buddy lives in markham and I went out for a drive once while he was working and ran into strip malls that had zero English on them.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: jingle.boy on September 07, 2018, 06:55:23 AM
That’s awesome Jingle I’m happy for you!

As for the Asian population I noticed in some areas it’s massive. My buddy lives in markham and I went out for a drive once while he was working and ran into strip malls that had zero English on them.

Yeah, that end of the Greater Toronto Area is highly oriental.  Ours is more Indian/Pakistani
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: axeman90210 on September 07, 2018, 09:06:43 AM
Damn that's a pretty baller house. Petition for username to be changed to jingle.pimp
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: cramx3 on September 07, 2018, 02:36:09 PM
Very nice and congrats jingle.pimp  :yarr
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: gmillerdrake on June 06, 2019, 09:45:33 PM
Little Back Yard Landscaping update. Extended the planting area on the back wall and added another little 'planter' made from rock:

Pre-extension

(https://i.imgur.com/HscqfJX.jpg)

Added a small border wall:

(https://i.imgur.com/hRp63QZ.jpg)

I then removed the grass (sucked...took 4 hours to scalp off and transplant) then laid the under fabric...then mulched...

(https://i.imgur.com/eB39GGz.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/XPrt209.jpg)

$200 Budget...came in at $170...got to planting...

(https://i.imgur.com/pDr7wJj.jpg)

Finished...notice the small additional 'planer' on the front edge..

(https://i.imgur.com/2cB6csz.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/6yrfxOn.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/mZflEYq.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/TxXB2kk.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/UlLggpJ.jpg)




Some of the other foliage I have going around the house. These Rose Bushes were planted last spring so it's about a years growth. They were like $5 at Menard's...just stems really when they went in.

(https://i.imgur.com/xzkJ0sq.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/4FvdMos.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/U3fIXvM.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/nF458TR.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/kBaeWkE.jpg)




I didn't realize how addicting (or expensive) this landscaping/yard work deal would become.



Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Cool Chris on June 06, 2019, 11:07:10 PM
I didn't realize how addicting (or expensive) this landscaping/yard work deal would become.

Truth, brother. It's always like "well, I could do a little bit here and that would be good..." then you think "If I do that, I really should change this up..." and then "if I do that some plants would go well right next to it..." and then you spent $200 on three trips to Home Depot over the course of a weekend.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: gmillerdrake on June 06, 2019, 11:21:18 PM
I didn't realize how addicting (or expensive) this landscaping/yard work deal would become.

Truth, brother. It's always like "well, I could do a little bit here and that would be good..." then you think "If I do that, I really should change this up..." and then "if I do that some plants would go well right next to it..." and then you spent $200 on three trips to Home Depot over the course of a weekend.

Yep. And that’s how it usually goes. I’ve come home with plants merely because they were marked down. Bought one two weeks ago for $23 that was normally $60.  :lol  can’t pass those deals up.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: jingle.boy on June 07, 2019, 05:41:46 AM
Bought one two weeks ago for $23 that was normally $60.  :lol  can’t pass those deals up.

Gezuz, you sound like Mrs.jingle.

But seriously, that looks freakin awesome.  Teach you kids how to weed.  That's the part I hate most.  We don't have a lot of landscaping to do here (previous owners had a pretty good setup), just some touching up to do.  It's the weeding that I'm not fond of.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Stadler on June 07, 2019, 06:27:41 AM
Bought one two weeks ago for $23 that was normally $60.  :lol  can’t pass those deals up.

Gezuz, you sound like Mrs.jingle.

But seriously, that looks freakin awesome.  Teach you kids how to weed.  That's the part I hate most.  We don't have a lot of landscaping to do here (previous owners had a pretty good setup), just some touching up to do.  It's the weeding that I'm not fond of.

I have had that conversation with both wives.  "Honey, look!  It's marked $110 and I only paid $45!"    Yeah, but you paid $45, not $0.   :). 

I love that look, and Gary you did a fine job.  For me the problem is the maintenance.  If that was my yard, I'd hate to see what it looked like in one or two seasons.    (And that's purely my fault; I understand that for some that maintenance work is easy and maybe even therapeutic).
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Podaar on June 07, 2019, 06:54:41 AM
Love it, Gary. I'm a big fan of your use of perennials. Give it a few years and that hillside planter will look like and English garden. One thing I don't envy you is keeping all those climbing roses tame.  :lol  I trimmed the hell out mine just a few months ago and it already looks wild again. Of course, now it's in full bloom so I don't have the heart to cut it back.

Everything looks great. I'm especially happy to see grown up tools being used by fellow DTFers!
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: gmillerdrake on June 07, 2019, 07:30:48 AM
Love it, Gary. I'm a big fan of your use of perennials. Give it a few years and that hillside planter will look like and English garden. One thing I don't envy you is keeping all those climbing roses tame.  :lol  I trimmed the hell out mine just a few months ago and it already looks wild again. Of course, now it's in full bloom so I don't have the heart to cut it back.

Everything looks great. I'm especially happy to see grown up tools being used by fellow DTFers!

I’m looking forward to how it’ll all grow and ‘fill’ the space. I was inspired by an area my mother in law has on her property. I’m hoping for something similar. Those rose plants are my first experience with roses so I’m trying to learn how to maintain them.

Bill....the maintenance is something I actually enjoy. I just like being outside and keeping it all kept up.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: cramx3 on June 07, 2019, 07:36:03 AM
Very nice Gary, but man I can't imagine myself doing all that yard work  :lol unlike you guys, I have zero desire to make my yard look nice and plant fresh plants or anything. 

I cut down a few small trees growing around the edge of my property and did some trimming of the bushes and small trees in front of my house a few weeks ago and that wasn't fun at all.  I actually need to spend time doing weeding myself real soon which is not a fun task either. 

I actually live right next to a home depot though so that's convenient, good thing I don't have that green thumb otherwise I'd be bankrupt.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Podaar on June 07, 2019, 09:26:58 AM
Those rose plants are my first experience with roses so I’m trying to learn how to maintain them.

It's not as hard as some folks make it out to be. Often, climbing roses look best if you keep them contained to one or two canes like you've done in your pictures. You'll get more canes coming up out of the ground that you can just cut off at ground level. After the current canes mature and get thick, you'll start to get nobs where young canes will want to branch out. You can either encourage that or cut them back. It's usually best to to do your trimming early spring just as the leafs are starting to bud. Don't be afraid to really give them a trimming either. You'll get some of your thicker foliage and bigger blooms when you do.

Enjoy.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Podaar on June 08, 2019, 09:43:54 AM
Gary,

Here are my climbing roses.

(https://i.imgur.com/MSMxyPs.jpg)

In early spring, before there was foliage, I cut this sucker way back and removed a pickup truck bed of dead wood and younger canes until looked it like a skeleton of a bush. I left two of the oldest canes per side that had climbed to the top of the arbor and about four one-year-old canes per side to fill in the sides of the arbor. Because of an unusually cool and rainy spring here (2nd wettest spring in Utah history) this monster really grew. The big unruly canes sticking out the front are shoots from one of the younger canes I mentioned before.

I gave it a little trim this morning and now it looks like this.

(https://i.imgur.com/HSiRM8G.jpg)

On the left, notice the brand new canes from this year sprouting up the fence. I'd normally just cut them off at the ground, but Mrs. P wants them to fill in that void where we used to have wild grape vines climbing up the side of the garage.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Stadler on June 08, 2019, 10:11:09 AM
Holy crap; that is fucking BEAUTIFUL.  Those are real? (Not asking to be a dick, but they look SO good.)
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: gmillerdrake on June 08, 2019, 10:37:35 AM
Gregg.....those are Beautiful! Man....they’re really full and tons of flowering.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Podaar on June 08, 2019, 10:54:42 AM
 :lol Stads. Of course they're real...notice all the fallen pedals at the base?!

Gary, yours will look like that too after your canes mature, unless yours are a variety I'm not familiar with.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: ReaperKK on June 08, 2019, 01:44:50 PM
This morning I came home from the dog park and went into my yard and discovered thousands of japanese beetles. I put a few of those traps out and they are all swarming now.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: gmillerdrake on June 11, 2019, 07:24:39 PM
Exact opposite of a 'benefit' of home ownership. Directly under the boys bathroom tub. Thinking the P-Trap/overflow seal is faulty. It's stopped dripping now so at least I know it isn't a busted pipe. Still most likely gonna have to open the ceiling. I gotta guy though....this is the part where I don't mind just paying someone who knows what they're doing to do it.


(https://i.imgur.com/MeCCECY.jpg)
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: TAC on June 11, 2019, 07:27:46 PM
Thank God. A leaky bathroom , and a break from all the pictures of flowers. :lol

I was beginning to thing this was the DTF Wives' thread.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: gmillerdrake on June 11, 2019, 07:28:56 PM
Thank God. A leaky bathroom , and a break from all the pictures of flowers. :lol

I was beginning to thing this was the DTF Wives' thread.

 :rollin
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Stadler on June 12, 2019, 08:18:41 AM
Gary, get someone to do it.  I'll keep this quick (but I swear it's a true story): I'm in my house in GA, by myself.  House is empty, moving trucks gone, wife/kid gone, and I have one quick meeting the next day and I fly to CT to our new house.  So I have ONLY things I can take on a plane left.   I have some food, couple-a beers and a book, and I'm set.  I do one last walk around, and I see a blue tribute candle in our walk-in attic. I say "eh, I'll grab that" and walk across the rafters in my dress shoes to get it.  I get it, I'm walking back and my dress shoes slip, I go down, two feet through the ceiling into the room below and I'm straddling the rafter.  You've got to be kidding me.   I have to fix this.

I've done sheetrock before (and a lot of it, professionally) but I'm stubborn and over-confident, and I have it in my head that I have to only use tools I can carry with me on a plane.  So I get a Dirt Devil (for the insulation and dust), a piece of dry wall, hammer, nails, putty and a trowel.  I'm working off boxes and a milk crate, and I finally, hours later, get it patched, but I know in my heart there's WAY more putty than there should be, and I didn't let the boards settle before I taped them.   Next day, I get a call from our agent, and in this deep Southern drawl he goes "Stadler, what the hell happened in that guest bedroom?"  I knew this when I left in the morning, but it sagged, and it looked like a cocoon had formed on the ceiling.   "I'll have someone come in and do it right this afternoon."

Not my finest hour. 
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: cramx3 on June 12, 2019, 08:20:22 AM
 :rollin
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: jingle.boy on June 12, 2019, 08:35:59 AM
When it comes to plumbing, hire a plumber.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Stadler on June 12, 2019, 08:55:45 AM
When it comes to plumbing, hire a plumber.
I'll do it!  I have a Dirt Devil!   
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Chino on June 12, 2019, 09:03:48 AM
Fuck. I had that same issue in my house. I have a hole in my office ceiling from the shower upstairs. I brought a plumber in and he said "Call someone else, that's too much of a pain in the ass and I really hate doing that work". That was 18 months ago and I just haven't used the upstairs shower since  :lol
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: gmillerdrake on June 12, 2019, 09:06:09 AM
When it comes to plumbing, hire a plumber.

Yep. Learned my lesson at our first home. What started as a 'small' issue with a shower handle that wouldn't shut the water off all the way ended up with me flooding the kitchen below us.

Plumbing is one thing I don't mind paying people who know what they're doing to do. I have a guy coming over at 4:00 today to take a look and let me know what's going on. 



Fuck. I had that same issue in my house. I have a hole in my office ceiling from the shower upstairs. I brought a plumber in and he said "Call someone else, that's too much of a pain in the ass and I really hate doing that work". That was 18 months ago and I just haven't used the upstairs shower since  :lol

 :lol     I'm near certain it's the sealant for that overflow/drip tray for when bath water gets too high. My oldest son had just taken a bath and he fills the tub up nearly to the brim despite my repeated instruction not to. The water leaked for a bit but did stop....this morning it's near bone dry on the ceiling. So, I just need confirmation of my suspicion and a trained pro to seal that sucker back up.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Chino on June 14, 2019, 05:48:24 AM
Here's my office's ceiling hole :(   

The shitty part is, the shower that's causing it isn't even above the hole. It's actually about 12 feet further to the left, beyond my 3D printing rack. It's directly above the downstairs bathroom, which is the room next to this one. I'd possibly have to open up the ceiling in two different rooms to try and find the problem.

(https://i.imgur.com/lWA0CuW.jpg)
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Stadler on June 14, 2019, 06:36:47 AM
Dude, I wish I could keep my workspace as tidy as that (said with admiration and respect, because I DO try.)
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Chino on June 14, 2019, 07:29:04 AM
If you saw the shelving to the left not pictured here, you wouldn't be saying that  :lol :lol
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: ReaperKK on June 15, 2019, 06:49:20 AM
That's a nice office space Chino. I'm currently re-doing my office space it and looks like a complete mess.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: cramx3 on June 15, 2019, 08:28:35 AM
I should share a picture of my living room wall, but I may be a bit too embarrassed to even share that   :lol

My brother had a 120 gallon fish tank, he insisted on taking over his friends tank when his friend moved and I do enjoy fish tanks (I have one in my basement, only 20 gallon) but I didn't want the responsibility that goes with such a large tank.  He promised it was his responsibility.  Pretty much held his side of the deal except now that he moved out.  The fish were huge and I still didn't want the responsibility.  He gave them to a local fish store, we decommissioned the tank, and removed it one day.  The problem, he never installed a back drop behind the tank so the water splashed along the wall in my living room forming some sort of "crust" lets call it from the chemicals in the water.  We scraped it all off which was kind of cool in a way, and now there's like a huge circle of where the paint is gone.  It needs to be sanded down and painted over.  My brother's responsibility, but he seems unresponsive to come over and take care of it and while it bothers me to have this in my home, I also do not want to just take care of it myself.  I'll see him next weekend to bring it back up.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: lordxizor on June 29, 2019, 04:25:55 PM
So I'm trying to figure out if it makes sense to refinance our mortgage. The interest rate would actually go up, but we'd get rid of PMI which makes our monthly payment like $165 less, but less of the payment goes to principle versus the current mortgage. I literally have spreadsheets trying to figure where the break even points are in the several options I have for interest rates and closing costs. I still can't decide if it's worth it. I wish I had a crystal ball to know how long we'll want to stay in this house. Such confusing stuff.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: TAC on June 29, 2019, 04:27:45 PM
So I'm trying to figure out if it makes sense to refinance our mortgage. The interest rate would actually go up, but we'd get rid of PMI which makes our monthly payment like $165 less, but less of the payment goes to principle versus the current mortgage. I literally have spreadsheets trying to figure where the break even points are in the several options I have for interest rates and closing costs. I still can't decide if it's worth it. I wish I had a crystal ball to know how long we'll want to stay in this house. Such confusing stuff.

How long is your mortgage? 30 years? How many years into it are you?
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: gmillerdrake on June 29, 2019, 04:27:49 PM
So I'm trying to figure out if it makes sense to refinance our mortgage. The interest rate would actually go up, but we'd get rid of PMI which makes our monthly payment like $165 less, but less of the payment goes to principle versus the current mortgage. I literally have spreadsheets trying to figure where the break even points are in the several options I have for interest rates and closing costs. I still can't decide if it's worth it. I wish I had a crystal ball to know how long we'll want to stay in this house. Such confusing stuff.

Ugh. Feel for ya. The pros and cons just go back and forth....and what would work for you may not work for me. It’s a tough decision.  Good luck!
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: lordxizor on June 29, 2019, 04:28:49 PM
I'm four years into a 30 year.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Phoenix87x on June 29, 2019, 04:29:37 PM
What's the total amount of the mortgage?

Then what's the current interest rate and then what will be the new interest rate?
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: TAC on June 29, 2019, 04:31:36 PM
I'm four years into a 30 year.

Are you trying to reduce your payment or simply get rid of PMI?
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: lordxizor on June 29, 2019, 04:33:33 PM
The issue is more that I can get a higher interest rate (3.875) and pay less in closing costs or get a lower interest rate (3.5) and pay more in closing costs. I've done the math to show I break even in 15 months at the higher interest rate and 36 months at the lower interest rate versus the current mortgage. The lower interest rate breaks even with the higher interest rate after like 7-8 years. If I knew we'd be here long term, I'd go with the lowest interest rate. Over 10+ years it's a way better deal, but the lowest closing cost is a better deal up through 7 years. Again... If only I could see the future...
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: lordxizor on June 29, 2019, 04:33:54 PM
I'm four years into a 30 year.

Are you trying to reduce your payment or simply get rid of PMI?
Both, though it's only less because I've gotten rid of PMI. P&I is actually higher unless I extend back to 30 years. The plan is to put my monthly saving right back into the principle though to keep my monthly payments the same.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: TAC on June 29, 2019, 04:40:05 PM
Unless you need the $165 a month for other expenses, I'd stay with whatever puts more money to Principle.

Have you considered going to a 20 yr?

In other words, I would never remortgage a 30 year loan, 4 years into it, with another 30 year loan.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: lordxizor on June 29, 2019, 04:44:29 PM
Unless you need the $165 a month for other expenses, I'd stay with whatever puts more money to Principle.

Have you considered going to a 20 yr?

In other words, I would never remortgage a 30 year loan, 4 years into it, with another 30 year loan.
I need to ask about some other terms and run those numbers too. I'm probably going to annoy the crap out of the two guys I'm working with to get tons of different scenarios. Like I said before, I'm going to put my $165 a month savings right back into the mortgage which puts $60+ a month more into principle than the current mortgage.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: lordxizor on June 29, 2019, 04:46:40 PM
I'm capable of doing all the math and spreadsheets to figure out the break even points of the different options. There are just so many options and I'm not sure if it's better to get to the break even point faster or to have better longer term (8+ years) savings.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: TAC on June 29, 2019, 04:52:58 PM
I would go with whatever option allows you to put the most on principle, or less in interest. Be sure not to roll those closing costs into the mortgage.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: lordxizor on June 29, 2019, 04:59:25 PM
I would go with whatever option allows you to put the most on principle, or less in interest. Be sure not to roll those closing costs into the mortgage.
That's my first thought too, however I pay $4000-ish more in closing costs to have $50 a month more go to principle. The break even point on that is a long way out.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: TAC on June 29, 2019, 05:03:12 PM
I would go with whatever option allows you to put the most on principle, or less in interest. Be sure not to roll those closing costs into the mortgage.
That's my first thought too, however I pay $4000-ish more in closing costs to have $50 a month more go to principle. The break even point on that is a long way out.


That is a shit ton in closing costs!
Yeah, that's not worth it. But rolling that into the mortgage, you'll pay that a couple times over in interest.


Good luck, man!


We have financed a couple of times early on before we settled on our current mortgage.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: lordxizor on June 29, 2019, 05:07:16 PM
It's all the points on buying down the interest rate. The higheat interest rate is less than $2000, lowest is $6000.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: cramx3 on July 02, 2019, 04:01:08 PM
Can't you get the lender to drop the PMI once you get 20% ownership?  Or is that you think your home value has gone up enough to meet the 20% but you aren't there based on your current loan and hence the refinance? 
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: King Postwhore on July 02, 2019, 04:03:41 PM
As a matter of fact,  I can get rid of my PMI this month.   Suuuuweeeettt!!
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: TAC on July 02, 2019, 05:23:59 PM
The only thing better than getting rid of PMI is getting rid of PMS.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: King Postwhore on July 02, 2019, 05:44:59 PM
Change of life may be worse. :lol
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: ReaperKK on July 02, 2019, 09:10:32 PM
Can't you get the lender to drop the PMI once you get 20% ownership?  Or is that you think your home value has gone up enough to meet the 20% but you aren't there based on your current loan and hence the refinance? 

Correct, once the house has gained enough equity to hit the 20% mark or you've paid off roughly 20% PMI drops.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Chino on July 03, 2019, 05:59:00 AM
Can't you get the lender to drop the PMI once you get 20% ownership?  Or is that you think your home value has gone up enough to meet the 20% but you aren't there based on your current loan and hence the refinance? 

Correct, once the house has gained enough equity to hit the 20% mark or you've paid off roughly 20% PMI drops.

Can confirm. I just tried to do this last week. At 20% you can apply for the removal of it, and at 22% the bank is by law (at least in CT) required to do away with it automatically. I'm about $5400 on my principle shy of getting rid of my PMI payment ($148 a month). I was hoping the bank would play ball, but understandably they wouldn't budge.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: lordxizor on July 03, 2019, 06:24:34 AM
Can't you get the lender to drop the PMI once you get 20% ownership?  Or is that you think your home value has gone up enough to meet the 20% but you aren't there based on your current loan and hence the refinance? 
FHA loan. The PMI is there forever.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: gmillerdrake on July 06, 2019, 01:20:06 PM
Well....the gmillerdrake's are going Solar! Just had our final consult and went ahead and pulled the trigger. Gonna take advantage of the 30% Federal tax credit while it lasts....and it's going to actually lower our electric bill by about $60 a month.

Only 'bummer' about it that we were hung up on for a bit is that we are taking another loan out for $24k....BUT....after the 30% tax credit gets applied to that it'll be a bit lower. I'm looking at it like I just bought an expensive car. We're gonna make all efforts to pay it off at a good clip and not the 20 year loan term.

We'd been considering it for some time now and just figured 'why not'? Near every review we've read has been positive and the people we know personally have had good experiences, so....with this being the direction things are moving why not jump on board?
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: cramx3 on July 06, 2019, 01:24:54 PM
Your roof is what everyone says.  I put up solar a few years ago, had no issues so far.  Its cheaper and better for the world.  I'm not a fan of the utility companies either so this is a good f you to them too.  I didn't buy mine though, I have a lease agreement type of deal for 20 years.  I think it's better long term to just buy them and eventually turn the profit after those 20 years but I was/am happy to just lower my bills monthly while being green. 
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: ReaperKK on July 06, 2019, 04:30:27 PM
Nice! We had a solar consultation at our house and it doesnt make sense for us at the moment. We have a newer home so it's really well insulated which translates to $90 a month for electric in july and August and significantly less for the rest of the year and I keep my thermostat at 66 all year.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Harmony on December 06, 2019, 05:24:55 PM
I thought about putting this in the 'things that piss me off today' thread, but I know it shouldn't come as a huge surprise.  Our furnace crapped out today.  It's exactly 20 years old, so not wholly unexpected.  The option is to repair the mother board for 1200 vs. 6000 for a whole new furnace.  Ouch.  But we are lucky.  It won't break us.  I reminded my family that for a lot of folks, this would mean not having Christmas at all, so we should remain thankful.

So now I need some advice.  We are planning some fairly major renovations over the next 1-2 years.  We are essentially remodeling the kitchen/family room first and then the master bedroom/bathroom.  The master bedroom is always the coldest room in winter and the hottest room in summer.  There are obviously major needs with regard to weatherizing that part of the house and we aren't sure what all that will entail yet.

So now that we are having to decide between repairing an old furnace or replacing it entirely, is it a good idea to repair now and wait for the major renovations to do the new furnace?  I'm just thinking the weatherizing portion of the remodel may turn up something needed in terms of heating/cooling efficiency that may impact a new unit and the last thing I want to do is shell out 6K now only to be told in 2 years we need a different furnace anyway.

Am I over-thinking this?  I know nothing about HVAC - can you tell?   :blush

Thanks in advance for any advice! 
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Grappler on December 06, 2019, 07:11:08 PM
I thought about putting this in the 'things that piss me off today' thread, but I know it shouldn't come as a huge surprise.  Our furnace crapped out today.  It's exactly 20 years old, so not wholly unexpected.  The option is to repair the mother board for 1200 vs. 6000 for a whole new furnace.  Ouch.  But we are lucky.  It won't break us.  I reminded my family that for a lot of folks, this would mean not having Christmas at all, so we should remain thankful.

So now I need some advice.  We are planning some fairly major renovations over the next 1-2 years.  We are essentially remodeling the kitchen/family room first and then the master bedroom/bathroom.  The master bedroom is always the coldest room in winter and the hottest room in summer.  There are obviously major needs with regard to weatherizing that part of the house and we aren't sure what all that will entail yet.

So now that we are having to decide between repairing an old furnace or replacing it entirely, is it a good idea to repair now and wait for the major renovations to do the new furnace?  I'm just thinking the weatherizing portion of the remodel may turn up something needed in terms of heating/cooling efficiency that may impact a new unit and the last thing I want to do is shell out 6K now only to be told in 2 years we need a different furnace anyway.

Am I over-thinking this?  I know nothing about HVAC - can you tell?   :blush

Thanks in advance for any advice!


If it's a two story, you could add a second (maybe smaller) furnace and separate thermostat to heat that story separately.  Or there are also small fans available that are installed in the ductwork to help push the air farther.  That type of a fan actually solved a heating issue with a cold room in my in-law's house. 
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: lordxizor on December 07, 2019, 06:36:09 AM
For what it's worth, when our AC went out a couple years ago, we choose to replace both that and the furnace rather than paying the $3000+ repair bill. Both were pushing 30 years old though. $1200 isn't too bad for your repairs, but at that age the thing can basically crap out at any time.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Stadler on December 07, 2019, 07:15:59 AM
Do you have an HVAC guy you trust?   Without seeing the layout or knowing what your renovations would be, I feel like you can perhaps have your cake and eat it too.

If the footprint of the house isn't likely going to change with your renovations there should be no problem with the replacement of the furnace unit itself.  If the footprint changes, then you might have issues with capacity and where the "lines" (vents/pipes/returns) are run.  The line location is a renovation problem not a furnace problem, unless there is a chance you will move the furnace too (or need a second unit). But even then, if you already feel you have a capacity problem (because of that current room not getting enough heat/air) you may have a capacity problem anyway, and so whatever upgrade you do now can, with a little foresight, cover your renovation plans.

A reputable HVAC person ought to be able to meet with you for half an hour and give you reasonable advice.  I know for me, unless my renovation plans were WILDLY variable, I wouldn't let the future renovation drive my decision to REPLACE the furnace, only what I replace it with.   Does that make sense?
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Harmony on December 13, 2019, 05:59:45 PM
Yes, it makes sense.  Thanks Stadler, lordxizor, and Grappler.  FTR, we do have a 2 story but the master is on the main floor.  We will not be making renovations that increase the square footage of the home in any way.  I like our HVAC company but they are very clear, "We aren't trying to sell you anything but here are your options."  Yeah, right...

So we went about a week without a furnace.  We decided to do the repair and hope for the best.  The guy who came out to do the repair, found some corrosion on some line and after taking care of that, all seemed well. 

Well...for a few minutes.  Just long enough for us to get our hopes up.  Then it stopped again and now there is some fan that is over-heating which is causing the automatic shut off to trigger.  Of course, this makes the repairs less likely to be successful.  So a new furnace it is!  Oh and a new thermostat and of course, a new AC unit.

Ah yes, the benefits of home ownership indeed.   :censored
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: lordxizor on December 14, 2019, 06:27:27 AM
That sucks. Hope you had some cash laying around or at least got good terms on financing. At least you get to enjoy a warm house again!
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: max_security on December 14, 2019, 07:26:34 AM
I have been in the HVAC industry since 1986. I do commercial control work now but I started in residential and am blessed to have started when residential work was still a craft . There are so many retrofit universal control boards on the market today I'd be surprised if this couldn't be fixed for less than 500 but I'm not sure exactly what you have. 

But it's probably time for the 20 year old furnace to go if you can swing it. And you want one that uses outside air for combustion ( 90+ percent efficiency if this is gas ). The AC may be just as old , if it is get him to price that too ( or get a future replacement rough number ). It's better to do these replacements on your terms , but no heat in December does not leave you in a good position for negotiation or selection.

The cold bedroom is most likely due to poor duct sizing and or routing. The air distribution systems take the biggest hit from bean counters and the greed heads man , yet it is the most critical portion of ac and warm air systems. If the new furnace has a variable speed fan motor it may help with this.

Get a contractor whom you feel shows intelligence and perhaps some passion for their work ( Stadler mentioned ). The best brand to go with is simply the one he works works with . Different areas offer better support from brand to brand ( Trane in my area may be great but maybe not so much somewhere else ) .

Edit : if you haven''t pulled the trigger on anything yet check these guys out , click on find a contractor. Most of these are specifically hot water and steam but some do air systems or will point you to the right people.   

https://heatinghelp.com/
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Chino on March 23, 2020, 06:10:38 AM
I've been wanting to redo my patio for a while now and got started on it this past Saturday. The gazebo I had was too small to fit my smokers and grill collection as well as guests. This larger setup should remedy that some. I was hoping to knock it out in a day, but we were a ladder short and ran out of daylight before getting the roof up.

To the left you can see it's just a lot of decorative rock on the ground. I have no idea why the previous owner did that instead of just using the same slate that the rest of the patio is made from, but I'm going to do away with that. It's a pain in the ass when trying to clean in the fall, so I plan on expanding the slate as well. I know the ideal thing to do would have been to put the new slate down before the gazebo, but I had to make moves. I've had my eye on this gazebo for a while on Costco's website, but they had it in store for $400 less than online (assuming that's because of shipping), so I pulled the trigger.

 (https://i.imgur.com/oDZfcjLl.jpg)
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: ReaperKK on March 23, 2020, 07:04:52 AM
Can't wait to see the final project. I've been getting some stuff around the house done as well. I think this weekend I'm going to tackle putting in irrigation.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: gmillerdrake on March 23, 2020, 07:07:53 AM
Lookin' good Brian! It's always worth it once you complete something like this. Can't wait to see how it turns out.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: millahh on March 23, 2020, 08:00:18 PM
Benefits of home ownership... Two years ago right now, we were in a pretty but kind of claustrophobic apartment in downtown Newark, now we are in a big house out in the suburbs with an unusually large yard.  I cannot imagine spending three months on lockdown in that apartment, not really having anywhere to run or exercise.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: cramx3 on March 24, 2020, 11:02:57 AM
It certainly is nice to have a home and not an apartment in these times.  I couldn't imagine being cramped and plus with some big complexes, it's still kind of hard to keep any social distance.  Meanwhile I have my workout area in my basement, two big screen/nice couch set ups, my office with my computer and green screen, a patio with grill and backyard, all to just use as needed.  Plus a spare bedroom that has turned into my cats second bedroom.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Chino on June 01, 2020, 05:16:10 AM
Making some moves this week at the homestead.

Finally finished getting my new gazebo up. Covid really fucked up putting this together. It took four of us (big dudes) to get the roof up and in place. It was tricky because of the proximity to my house. It made it hard to work on one side.
(https://preview.redd.it/tx8duwps7a251.jpg?width=960&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=6729f36416c2f531d063579e0022f20384032dd2)


I've got a crew coming in on Tuesday and Wednesday and getting $8k worth of tree removal done. Can't freaking wait for that. I'm taking down three monster oaks that are all 50' or taller and a black birch. They're taking 4 scrawny pines and a huge limb off a neighboring oak as well. I couldn't do all the trees I wanted to unfortunately. That would have been upwards of $16K. But this is a good start. My house and property will get more sun now, so that mildew shit will stop building up on my siding (see in pic above).

I'm hoping to have a new roof by the end of summer. We'll see.

Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: jingle.boy on June 01, 2020, 05:53:46 AM
mrs.jingle and I have been doing a crap-ton of yardwork for the past few weeks - relocating some plants, planting some new/extras, and (as I've mentioned in a couple other threads already), hauled about 3-4 yards of river rock (to top up the stone surrounding our pool patio) and crushed stone (to cover our gardens.  Will try to fire up some before/after pics when all is said and done.  Not huge changes, but it gives us a nicer/cleaner look.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Stadler on June 01, 2020, 07:11:04 AM
Chino, that looks sweet.   I spent most of Saturday washing my wife's old house (long story) because the mildew/mold/moss/whatever builds up so fast.  That house is surrounded by 50 to 75 foot pine trees, so all the sun is limited to either the back yard or a sliver of time that doesn't amount to much.  It was a lot of work.   We're going to start selectively removing trees as well.  I want to do it myself, but the wife wants no part of that (I know I can't take down a 75 foot pine tree, but those are likely going to stay; I'm talking about the smaller stuff closer to the house).   :) :) :)
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: eric42434224 on June 01, 2020, 08:49:54 AM
This is my most recent project.  It is just outside my screened in pool area.  I used cedar and stained it with Timber Oil.  I ran hot/cold water from the house, and laid down travertine stone pavers (same as pool deck area).  Built in some LED lights that are under the shelf, and go on at dusk.  Dug down 3 feet for drainage and filled with gravel.  Still going to build in some covered shelves and storage, and a bench when I have time.  Also have a waterproof bluetooth speaker for tunes :).  Didnt use any plans....just built from scratch and fixed my screw-ups as I went along.  A couple posts twisted which made for sme frustrating days....but SOOOO worth it to take showers outside.  My wife and kids use this shower more than our indoor showers!

(https://i.imgur.com/KW0S0TG.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/Ga13pBm.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/GsTwm1c.jpg)
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Chino on June 01, 2020, 09:07:11 AM
Siiick

That came out awesome
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: gmillerdrake on June 01, 2020, 09:34:16 AM
Brian....that gazebo looks good  :tup   Good luck with the tree removal.

Eric.....that turned out awesome!! Real nice work  :tup
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Cool Chris on June 01, 2020, 09:35:55 AM
Didnt use any plans....just built from scratch and fixed my screw-ups as I went along.  A couple posts twisted which made for sme frustrating days...

Dang, nothing I ever do without plans ever comes out well.

My wife and kids use this shower more than our indoor showers!

I totally would too! Outdoor showering is the bomb!
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: TAC on June 01, 2020, 09:43:04 AM
Wow, that outdoor shower thing is great!
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: eric42434224 on June 01, 2020, 09:47:02 AM
Thanks everyone!  Much appreciated.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Chino on June 01, 2020, 09:51:00 AM
I'll ask the question that everyone is wondering but afraid to ask.... or maybe I'm just a perv..

You do it under the stars yet?
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: gmillerdrake on June 01, 2020, 09:52:51 AM
I'll ask the question that everyone is wondering but afraid to ask.... or maybe I'm just a perv..

You do it under the stars yet?

I'd have thought that's a given  :lol
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Lonk on June 01, 2020, 09:53:21 AM
You do it under the stars yet?

Don't need a shower for that  :P
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: gmillerdrake on June 01, 2020, 09:54:57 AM
You do it under the stars yet?

Don't need a shower for that  :P

well...... it depends
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: mike099 on June 01, 2020, 09:58:06 AM
The wife and I paid off our house last week.  We owed 25K and just decided to take it out of savings and be done with it.

We should have had it paid of years ago, but made some dumb mistakes with cars, etc.

My advice for younger folks, is try and get rid of the car payments and pay extra on your mortgage.  You will be surprised how much faster you can pay it off.  Of course first make sure you have an adequate emergency fund.

BYW, that gazebo and outside shower are awesome.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Chino on June 01, 2020, 10:31:57 AM
The wife and I paid off our house last week.  We owed 25K and just decided to take it out of savings and be done with it.

We should have had it paid of years ago, but made some dumb mistakes with cars, etc.

My advice for younger folks, is try and get rid of the car payments and pay extra on your mortgage.  You will be surprised how much faster you can pay it off.  Of course first make sure you have an adequate emergency fund.

BYW, that gazebo and outside shower are awesome.

Thanks on the gazebo. I'd push back against the paying off your mortgage thing a bit pending your age. For a while I was trying to throw an extra $100-$150 a month at my principle payment, then I realized investing that same amount every month instead would lead to more benefits down the road than paying my house off a couple years early. That's what I'm hoping for anyway.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Cool Chris on June 01, 2020, 11:12:05 AM
I was foolishly hoping being furloughed for 2+ months would allow me to work on some house projects. Then I realized I would also be responsible for my 2 year old all day since we aren't taking her to day care. Fortunately we did not have any big projects on our calendar for this year. I was able to build some planter boxes for my wife who wanted to take a stab at growing vegetables and herbs. 
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: jingle.boy on June 01, 2020, 11:41:44 AM
Congrats Mike  :tup.  Nothing more liberating than having no mortgage payments or a lien on your own goddamn property.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: lordxizor on June 01, 2020, 11:42:05 AM
Yeah, in theory you should do better investing that extra money in an S&P 500 index fund rather than paying off your mortgage (assuming you have a good interest rate). But having a paid for house would be pretty awesome. I definitely want to get mine paid off by 60, so I'll probably start accelerating that when I'm 50 or so.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: jingle.boy on June 01, 2020, 11:43:52 AM
Yeah, in theory you should do better investing that extra money in an S&P 500 index fund rather than paying off your mortgage (assuming you have a good interest rate). But having a paid for house would be pretty awesome. I definitely want to get mine paid off by 60, so I'll probably start accelerating that when I'm 50 or so.

I have an economics degree, and every single time I hear someone say "in theory ...", my I'm reminded that in theory, Communism works.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: King Postwhore on June 01, 2020, 12:09:51 PM
Well we accepted a quote to redesign our bathroom.   Mold issues so everything comes down including walls.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: lordxizor on June 01, 2020, 12:59:25 PM
Yeah, in theory you should do better investing that extra money in an S&P 500 index fund rather than paying off your mortgage (assuming you have a good interest rate). But having a paid for house would be pretty awesome. I definitely want to get mine paid off by 60, so I'll probably start accelerating that when I'm 50 or so.
I have an economics degree, and every single time I hear someone say "in theory ...", my I'm reminded that in theory, Communism works.
Maybe "on average" would have been better than "in theory", but yeah, point taken. A guaranteed 4% return (or whatever your interest rate is), which is essentially what prepaying your mortgage gives you, isn't definitely worth considering.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: jingle.boy on June 01, 2020, 01:12:51 PM
Yeah, in theory you should do better investing that extra money in an S&P 500 index fund rather than paying off your mortgage (assuming you have a good interest rate). But having a paid for house would be pretty awesome. I definitely want to get mine paid off by 60, so I'll probably start accelerating that when I'm 50 or so.
I have an economics degree, and every single time I hear someone say "in theory ...", my I'm reminded that in theory, Communism works.
Maybe "on average" would have been better than "in theory", but yeah, point taken. A guaranteed 4% return (or whatever your interest rate is), which is essentially what prepaying your mortgage gives you, isn't definitely worth considering.

By and large, it depends how risk averse people are.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Chino on June 01, 2020, 01:17:05 PM
Yeah, in theory you should do better investing that extra money in an S&P 500 index fund rather than paying off your mortgage (assuming you have a good interest rate). But having a paid for house would be pretty awesome. I definitely want to get mine paid off by 60, so I'll probably start accelerating that when I'm 50 or so.

Well, that's why I said "pending your age". I made that decision when I was 26. It'd be a different choice to make if it was a 40+ year old looking at the same problem. Starting that at a young age and having that extra money in the market for an additional 10 years should be well worth it. If I was later in my life, getting rid of that mortgage payment might look more appealing though.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: eric42434224 on June 01, 2020, 03:29:13 PM
Yeah you guys got it.  Depends on risk, time frame, rates, investment, etc.  I will throw in another factor.... taxes.  Maybe you can write off mortgage interest.... maybe the investment is tax free or tax deferred, etc.

And to answer another question:  can’t see a ton of stars from the shower lol.... pretty developed here..... not like back home in upstate NY and VT.  But due to a lack of hand rails like in a normal shower, I am building the bench so it is safer and more comfortable to “look at the stars” whilst in the shower with Mrs. 42434224.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Chino on June 01, 2020, 03:46:22 PM
 :hat
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: lordxizor on June 01, 2020, 03:55:20 PM
Yeah, in theory you should do better investing that extra money in an S&P 500 index fund rather than paying off your mortgage (assuming you have a good interest rate). But having a paid for house would be pretty awesome. I definitely want to get mine paid off by 60, so I'll probably start accelerating that when I'm 50 or so.

Well, that's why I said "pending your age". I made that decision when I was 26. It'd be a different choice to make if it was a 40+ year old looking at the same problem. Starting that at a young age and having that extra money in the market for an additional 10 years should be well worth it. If I was later in my life, getting rid of that mortgage payment might look more appealing though.
Yeah, I figure 10+ years in the market is going to beat 3.75% return nearly every time. Less than 10 years, paying off the mortgage and getting a guarantees 3.75% sounds much more appealing.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: eric42434224 on June 01, 2020, 04:14:13 PM
Yeah, in theory you should do better investing that extra money in an S&P 500 index fund rather than paying off your mortgage (assuming you have a good interest rate). But having a paid for house would be pretty awesome. I definitely want to get mine paid off by 60, so I'll probably start accelerating that when I'm 50 or so.

Well, that's why I said "pending your age". I made that decision when I was 26. It'd be a different choice to make if it was a 40+ year old looking at the same problem. Starting that at a young age and having that extra money in the market for an additional 10 years should be well worth it. If I was later in my life, getting rid of that mortgage payment might look more appealing though.
Yeah, I figure 10+ years in the market is going to beat 3.75% return nearly every time. Less than 10 years, paying off the mortgage and getting a guarantees 3.75% sounds much more appealing.

Nothing wrong with that calculus.  Just remember not to deplete emergency funds to get that “feel good” of paying off the mortgage.  Other higher debt, and emergency savings take priority....but I’m sure you already know that. :tup
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: lordxizor on June 01, 2020, 06:29:12 PM
Of course. I'm debt free apart from the mortgage already and have plenty of cash for a rainy day. I'm a good 10 years from feeling like it'd be better to pay off the mortgage than to invest.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: cramx3 on June 01, 2020, 11:53:11 PM
I will throw in another factor.... taxes.  Maybe you can write off mortgage interest....

This, for my loan being relatively early in a 30 year, I get a huge tax return writing off the interest and the pmi plus the property tax, not that it pays for it all, but these are reasons why I get a nicer tax return compared to others.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: eric42434224 on June 02, 2020, 06:39:40 AM
I will throw in another factor.... taxes.  Maybe you can write off mortgage interest....

This, for my loan being relatively early in a 30 year, I get a huge tax return writing off the interest and the pmi plus the property tax, not that it pays for it all, but these are reasons why I get a nicer tax return compared to others.

Well not anymore right?  It is the higher standard deduction, so you aren’t itemizing and taking the actual mortgage interest deduction, correct?
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: lordxizor on June 02, 2020, 06:47:32 AM
I will throw in another factor.... taxes.  Maybe you can write off mortgage interest....

This, for my loan being relatively early in a 30 year, I get a huge tax return writing off the interest and the pmi plus the property tax, not that it pays for it all, but these are reasons why I get a nicer tax return compared to others.
The tax deductions for mortgages are overhyped for most people. With the standard deduction being so high these days, most homeowners don't itemize anymore (especially if it's a couple). Plus the tax deduction is really only what you can write off above the standard deduction. If you itemize $15,000 and the standard deduction is $12,200, you write off $2,800. In the 22% tax bracket, that saves you $616. Nice, but not enough to get too excited about.

Buying a house for the tax deduction on the mortgage interest is a bit like having kids for the tax credit. It's a nice bonus, but shouldn't really be much of a consideration in deciding to buy a home.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: hunnus2000 on June 02, 2020, 07:43:16 AM
The biggest motivation for buying a house should be as an investment if you're in a situation to afford a 15 or 30 year note and have a stable job (I know, tough to say in these weird times) then real estate is the best investment.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: lordxizor on June 02, 2020, 08:10:02 AM
The home you live in is a terrible investment. Real estate is only really an investment if you're generating revenue by renting it out.

For example, say you buy a $200k house at 4% interest. You will pay $144k total in interest over a 30 year mortgage. Assume your home value appreciates by 4% a year (which is around average) and you put 1% of the value of the home back into the home in improvements every year (on the low side, but reasonable).

After 30 years, you have a paid off home worth $625k. You've paid:
Principle: $200k
Interest: $144k
Upkeep: $112k
Total: $456k

You make a "profit" of $169k if you were to sell at that point (this ignore realtors fees, property taxes, insurance, cash out refis or home equity loans, etc for simplification). That's about a 37% return on your investment, which over 30 years is not great (in reality it would be less due to the above costs removed for simplicity).

To compare, I could put $300 a month into an S&P 500 index fund (total investment of $108k), get below average returns of 7%, and have $366k after 30 years. That's 240% return over 30 years.

Yes, the math is simplified and not exact and ignores several factors, but you can see how the home you live in is actually not a great investment. But your home is more than just an investment, it's your home. That's why we're willing to put up with poor returns on it because it's more than just a money generating thing. Just don't delude yourself into thinking it's a great investment. For most people, who are not diligent investors, it may be the only way they generate any wealth, so it that regard, it is a good thing to buy a home. But a diligent investor in the stock market should be able to get much, much higher returns than their home. None of this mentions that almost no one stays in their home for 30 years and is moving every 5 years or so and is playing realtor and closing fees that eat into their profits.

Rental properties are a completely different story. They are usually on par with stock investing if done right.


Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: jingle.boy on June 02, 2020, 10:18:06 AM
Payments to home + property is a better investment than payments to rent. I think that’s the point that’s being made. As an investment alone, you're more than likely to get better a return on capital elsewhere. But, as an investment that also covers your living expenses, it’s hard to beat it.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: lordxizor on June 02, 2020, 10:24:13 AM
Payments to home + property is a better investment than payments to rent. I think that’s the point that’s being made. As an investment alone, you're more than likely to get better a return on capital elsewhere. But, as an investment that also covers your living expenses, it’s hard to beat it.
A lot of the time, but not even close to always. It depends a lot on the cost of buying versus renting. It's pretty easy to argue for many people that they'd be better off renting and investing the difference. The trick is that almost no one invests the difference. So from a practical standpoint, if you're planning to live in the same place for 5+ years, you're almost assuredly better off buying. But if you're a diligent saver/investor/budgeter, it's not so simple.

My point is mostly that you shouldn't view the house you live in as an investment. The "investment" part of it doesn't return a whole lot compared to good investments. Your home is closer to a forced savings vehicle than an investment.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: jingle.boy on June 02, 2020, 10:52:44 AM
I think your reasoning is flawed.  In your example:

After 30 years, you have a paid off home worth $625k. You've paid:
Principle: $200k
Interest: $144k
Upkeep: $112k
Total: $456k

you've also paid your primary shelter with all these expenses.

In your example:

I could put $300 a month into an S&P 500 index fund (total investment of $108k), get below average returns of 7%, and have $366k after 30 years. That's 240% return over 30 years.

You've paid precisely $0 in primary shelter costs over 30 years.  Add on minimum $800/mo with a 0% return, and your total outlay increases by $288k.  Total investment $396k for return of $258k (300/mo CAGR'd at 7%) is only 65%.

Also, 7% Avg CAGR for 30 years is pretty aggressive.
And real estate growth at 4% is pretty low.

Just sayin.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Stadler on June 02, 2020, 11:13:00 AM
Nicely done, Chad.  Seriously. 
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: lordxizor on June 02, 2020, 12:03:21 PM
S&P 500 averages over 9% annually
Quick research showed 3-5% on home appreciation historically, so I chose the middle ground.

My assumption on the $300 a month is that you could save $300 a month renting versus buying, in which case you end up with roughly twice as much money versus buying a house. Sure, the % gains can be interpreted different ways.

Anyway, the point wasn't to nitpick the math, only to show that a house you live in is not a "good" investment by the same measures you use to measure a "good investment" in stocks. It's a home that you get to live in that happens to gain equity over time.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: hunnus2000 on June 02, 2020, 12:14:09 PM
I can see where the math is pretty cut and dry but mortgage interest and upkeep of the property is, at least to me, the CODB. Build a pool? Yes it will raise the value of the property but just don't expect to get your full money back that you paid to install it. Foundation problems? Got to fix it. Interest? If you have a mortgage then you can't get around it.

If you keep your house for long enough and work to pay off the mortgage then you can come away with a windfall which is what I refer to as "Now Money"


 
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: jingle.boy on June 02, 2020, 12:16:10 PM
It's a home that you get to live in that happens to gain equity over time.

On this, we absolutely agree.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: eric42434224 on June 02, 2020, 12:16:27 PM
I have found that you end up paying less all in with buying, than renting.  And that gap increases as rent goes up over time.  Sure the other costs of owning go up too (taxes, insurance, repairs) but not as much as rent.... plus the majority of ownership cost (mortgage P&I) stays stable, then goes away after XX years.  Not sure where one can show a Stable amount, much less $300 surplus, with Renting vs owning over time.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: lordxizor on June 02, 2020, 04:02:06 PM
That's a good point. If you actually stay put for the long term in the same home and don't do cash out refis, you can have a payment way below what rent would be after a couple decades.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: cramx3 on June 02, 2020, 05:11:42 PM
My rent would go up every year in my last apartment. My 30 year mortgage however has been the same mostly. Slight increases as taxes and insurance go up, but not much on a year to year basis like rent would. Also I've refinanced a couple times and might again, its lowered my payment, and kept it stable at that lower rate each time.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: TAC on June 02, 2020, 07:20:51 PM
My rent would go up every year in my last apartment. My 30 year mortgage however has been the same mostly. Slight increases as taxes and insurance go up, but not much on a year to year basis like rent would. Also I've refinanced a couple times and might again, its lowered my payment, and kept it stable at that lower rate each time.

Are you paying points every time you refi? Put that number spread out over your mortgage to make sure that payment is indeed going down.

And please tell me you don't make the points park of the loan.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: King Postwhore on June 02, 2020, 07:23:10 PM
Every refinance turns that clock back on how long. I stopped that after the 1st refinance. 
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: TAC on June 02, 2020, 07:27:57 PM
Every refinance turns that clock back on how long. I stopped that after the 1st refinance.

Well, as long as you don't refi at the original term. If you're 5 years into a 30 year mortgage, you refi at 25 or better yet for 20, but never again at 30.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: King Postwhore on June 02, 2020, 07:46:57 PM
Right but anyone early on is looking to refinance. 
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: jingle.boy on June 02, 2020, 07:54:15 PM
I refinanced twice. Both times I kept my payment the same, just lowered my amortization period. Ultimately, with the help of my severance package, I was able to eliminate my mortgage in less than 18 years from buying my first house.

And not to debate the point any further, but my last house almost tripled in value in 17 years.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: King Postwhore on June 02, 2020, 07:56:51 PM
That's what we are working on with the upgrades. Porches are next years upgrades. 
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Podaar on June 03, 2020, 06:57:53 AM
Interesting discussion about the financial aspects. But for me, truly, the benefits are all about the tranquility of home. Always having a place you're eager to be at. The sense of permanence and your own island in a sea of troubles.

(https://i.imgur.com/fsmzGm0.jpg)
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: jingle.boy on June 03, 2020, 08:28:06 AM
Interesting discussion about the financial aspects. But for me, truly, the benefits are all about the tranquility of home. Always having a place you're eager to be at. The sense of permanence and your own island in a sea of troubles.

(https://i.imgur.com/fsmzGm0.jpg)

(https://media0.giphy.com/media/3oEjHYibHwRL7mrNyo/giphy.gif)
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: lordxizor on June 03, 2020, 08:34:16 AM
Interesting discussion about the financial aspects. But for me, truly, the benefits are all about the tranquility of home. Always having a place you're eager to be at. The sense of permanence and your own island in a sea of troubles.

(https://i.imgur.com/fsmzGm0.jpg)
That is definitely a huge benefit.

On the flip side, when I've owned a home (like now), I am constantly thinking about improvements that I'd like to make or seeing the imperfections that bug me. So it's difficult for me to feel that sense of tranquility. When I rented a house before this house, I didn't give a shit about any of that because it wasn't my house. I honestly prefer renting in many ways, but buying made financial sense for us.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: cramx3 on June 03, 2020, 08:41:35 AM
Both times I refinanced (once to get my x off the loan/deed, second to lower my payment) where both one year into the 30 years so I didnt mind adding another year since I was just getting started.  Was thinking about doing another refinance, but now that I'm 5 years into this loan, I'm not really thinking I'd want another 30 year unless it was significantly cheaper, but I'd be OK doing a 15 or 20 year if I can keep it relatively the same monthly price.   According to zillow (I know its not accurate, but its better than my own wild guess)  my house is worth 24% more than what it was valued on my last refinance, that and removing PMI while interests rates are low are a big reason why I may want to refinance.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Grappler on June 03, 2020, 09:41:27 AM
We just closed on our second refinance.  Our first was 5 years into a 30 year loan, which got us to a lower rate and dropped PMI.  And now 5 years later again.  Both times, we've taken a 30 year loan.  Extending the loan sucks. But we know we have the option to pay more and make extra principal payments when we can, and we always round our payment up and chip away at the principal.

We went from a 5.3-ish interest rate to 4.25 and now we have a 3.125 rate.  That was the only goal each time. We have never pulled the equity out and taken any cash.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: lordxizor on June 03, 2020, 10:02:07 AM
I refied last year to primarily get rid of PMI (my interest rate actually went up slightly) saving us $150 a month. Wish I would have waited a year given that I could do 0.5-0.75% lower now than I did then. If rates drop much farther it may be worth refinancing again. I also extended the term out to another 30 years, but we were only 4 years into our mortgage at that point.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: eric42434224 on June 03, 2020, 11:18:34 AM
Podaar made a great point.  The home, to me at least, is a sanctuary, where I can go to feel safe, secure, and at peace.  So much so that I spent upwards of 70k to build an outdoor sanctuary where I feel like I'm at a resort.  The outdoor shower (posted earlier) was the final, or at least latest piece. 
There is a screened in pool overlooking a small lake.  The (covered by roof, not pool) patio area is 40'x14', and has a sectional with fire pit, an 8 person dining table, and a kitchen area with grill, fridge, and counters/drawers.cabinets.  Also have a 60' TV with 5.1 surround sound system -  even around the pool.  I will post pictures soon.

Here is a nice sunset from my back patio area:
We get sunsets like this literally every other day.

(https://i.imgur.com/mysqqnq.jpg)
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: cramx3 on June 03, 2020, 11:20:56 AM
Very nice, and good points about it being YOUR space.  There's something to be said about having a place on this earth that you own, can do what you want with, and can feel as free and comfortable about as much as possible in this world.  I think about this when I blast concert videos in my basement and know that I can do it without pissing neighbors off. 
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Podaar on June 03, 2020, 11:21:11 AM
That's awesome Eric! Love it.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Chino on June 03, 2020, 11:25:45 AM
That's where my head is at as well. Eventually I just want to be on a property that feels like a getaway every time I relax outside. I don't care if I'm losing money on it or not. But that's a ways away. Working on my equity now in hopes of getting there eventually.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: lordxizor on June 03, 2020, 11:29:26 AM
That's where my head is at as well. Eventually I just want to be on a property that feels like a getaway every time I relax outside. I don't care if I'm losing money on it or not. But that's a ways away. Working on my equity now in hopes of getting there eventually.
I would love to do that as well. For me, my biggest fear is spending ton of money to customize things only to have to move for some reason. We've talked about moving somewhere warmer or our ultimate dream of being able to live on the road and travel the country while still working and homeschooling the kids. There are just so many things to be saving cash for, it's hard to come up with enough to do the stuff around the house we want to do.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: ReaperKK on June 03, 2020, 02:21:26 PM
Podaar made a great point.  The home, to me at least, is a sanctuary, where I can go to feel safe, secure, and at peace.  So much so that I spent upwards of 70k to build an outdoor sanctuary where I feel like I'm at a resort.  The outdoor shower (posted earlier) was the final, or at least latest piece. 
There is a screened in pool overlooking a small lake.  The (covered by roof, not pool) patio area is 40'x14', and has a sectional with fire pit, an 8 person dining table, and a kitchen area with grill, fridge, and counters/drawers.cabinets.  Also have a 60' TV with 5.1 surround sound system -  even around the pool.  I will post pictures soon.

Here is a nice sunset from my back patio area:
We get sunsets like this literally every other day.

(https://i.imgur.com/mysqqnq.jpg)

Awesome pic, makes me want to move back to florida for the epic sunsets.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Cool Chris on June 06, 2020, 09:33:45 PM
Not sure if I should put here or in 'Mildly Irritated' thread (if you read my birthday post there you'd understand).

June 03, fridge dies. June 06, water heater dies. Covid-19 stimulus check, goodbye. I do love my home. We just aren't getting along these past 4 days.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: TAC on June 07, 2020, 05:08:04 PM
Not sure if I should put here or in 'Mildly Irritated' thread (if you read my birthday post there you'd understand).

June 03, fridge dies. June 06, water heater dies. Covid-19 stimulus check, goodbye. I do love my home. We just aren't getting along these past 4 days.

Chris, you remember the George Bush stimulus checks right?

Monday-washer dies
Tuesday -dryer dies
Wednesday-check arrives
Friday-buy new washer and dryer

which was pretty much what that check was intended for.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Chino on June 08, 2020, 09:25:01 AM
So I got a bunch of trees removed last week and I love how it came out. However, my lawn if getting hit by the direct summer sun for the first time in possibly several decades. My grass has browned really fast, and I have no idea what to do about that.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: gmillerdrake on June 08, 2020, 09:36:02 AM
So I got a bunch of trees removed last week and I love how it came out. However, my lawn if getting hit by the direct summer sun for the first time in possibly several decades. My grass has browned really fast, and I have no idea what to do about that.

Oh yeah.....that grass was probably like 'WTF?!"  :lol   There are some pretty affordable timers and sprinkler connections that would allow you to control watering your lawn regularly. I think that's about all you can do is keep it hydrated.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: lordxizor on June 08, 2020, 09:45:42 AM
So I got a bunch of trees removed last week and I love how it came out. However, my lawn if getting hit by the direct summer sun for the first time in possibly several decades. My grass has browned really fast, and I have no idea what to do about that.

Oh yeah.....that grass was probably like 'WTF?!"  :lol   There are some pretty affordable timers and sprinkler connections that would allow you to control watering your lawn regularly. I think that's about all you can do is keep it hydrated.
This. And it's also possible that shade friendly grass varieties were previously growing there and it needs to be replanted with sun friendly grass varieties.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Chino on June 08, 2020, 10:59:12 AM
So I got a bunch of trees removed last week and I love how it came out. However, my lawn if getting hit by the direct summer sun for the first time in possibly several decades. My grass has browned really fast, and I have no idea what to do about that.

Oh yeah.....that grass was probably like 'WTF?!"  :lol   There are some pretty affordable timers and sprinkler connections that would allow you to control watering your lawn regularly. I think that's about all you can do is keep it hydrated.
This. And it's also possible that shade friendly grass varieties were previously growing there and it needs to be replanted with sun friendly grass varieties.


Stupid question... can I plant grass seed at any time of the year? I was really hoping this wasn't the case, but I wouldn't be surprised. The woman who had the house before me was hardcore into gardening. She was meticulous about everything. When I moved in, the back hill looked like some kind of ornate garden from Japan or something. That's not my thing. She's be heartbroken if she saw it now. I laid waste to it yesterday.

(https://i.imgur.com/vSnMyvr.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/pGxCXj5.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/wicxOg7.jpg)


It might be hard to tell from the pics, but that hill behind my gazebo is actually all ledge, with four tiers between my house and the neighbors (I'm on a mountain). Those tiers are what the previous owner did all fancy. I whacked the lower two of the four and put a bunch of that mesh stuff down before adding some stone. I didn't read the bags at the hardware store, and like an asshole assumed they covered 10sqft each. Turns out they were only fivers and I got half the stone I needed, so I'm going to have to make a second trip, maybe today after work. I've also been woods diving for larger rocks. If you look at the lower-most tier, I built up another layer of rock to act as a barrier to help hold the smaller stones in when I have to inevitably leaf blow it. That second tier is going to be a bit more of a challenge because the wall's in crappier shape.

I'm going to place a couple of large planters around the stone filled with flowers and whatnot, and add a stone bench and a bird bath somewhere to the mix as well. I'll be working in a tasteful crawler course for my 1/24 scale RCs as well  :coolio It feels good to be making so much progress so fast. I've neglected my yard a bit the last two years, having to pick up a weekend job and all. Covid has given me so much time back, it's been nice being able to actually get some stuff done while the sun's shining.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: lordxizor on June 08, 2020, 11:03:33 AM
So I got a bunch of trees removed last week and I love how it came out. However, my lawn if getting hit by the direct summer sun for the first time in possibly several decades. My grass has browned really fast, and I have no idea what to do about that.

Oh yeah.....that grass was probably like 'WTF?!"  :lol   There are some pretty affordable timers and sprinkler connections that would allow you to control watering your lawn regularly. I think that's about all you can do is keep it hydrated.
This. And it's also possible that shade friendly grass varieties were previously growing there and it needs to be replanted with sun friendly grass varieties.


Stupid question... can I plant grass seed at any time of the year? 
I'll start by saying I am far from a grass expert, but I was looking into overseeding my yard and patching a few bare spots. I read that early spring or late summer/fall is best. You want the grass to be well established before the dry, hot times of summer if you plant in the spring, or to be well established before going dormant for the winter. So now's not the best time to plant. The thing I read said to wait until late August if you miss the spring window.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: jingle.boy on June 08, 2020, 11:17:39 AM
Early or late in the season is indeed best.  You need to keep the seeds from drying out.  And spread them on top of good quality soil - they need something to latch on to.

Oh, and get your rock delivered by the yard or 1/2 yard.  Unless you have to invest in a wheelbarrel and shovel as well.  overall, much more cost effective than paying for it to be bagged in 40 or 50 pound increments.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Chino on June 08, 2020, 11:50:31 AM
Early or late in the season is indeed best.  You need to keep the seeds from drying out.  And spread them on top of good quality soil - they need something to latch on to.

Oh, and get your rock delivered by the yard or 1/2 yard.  Unless you have to invest in a wheelbarrel and shovel as well.  overall, much more cost effective than paying for it to be bagged in 40 or 50 pound increments.

Yeah, I considered that, but my yard is not conducive to a wheelbarrow unfortunately. It's hard to describe, but if you looked at my property in person, you'd get it immediately. With the way that hill is tiered, I'd have to be carrying everything up it anyway, so the only benefit to the bulk drop off would be the cost savings. But after the amount of crap I had to move yesterday and am going to have to move again, I'm kind of okay paying the premium just to have everything neatly in bags that can just be dropped wherever I need them.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: jingle.boy on June 08, 2020, 11:56:57 AM
Fair enough.  It's just fresh on my mind, as I've hauled 8 yards of various rock since last Saturday.  Thank god it's finished.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: hunnus2000 on June 08, 2020, 12:07:56 PM
Speaking of growing grass, my yard is mainly weeds with a little grass thrown in for good measure. My landscaper neighbor tells me that all I need is weed and feed but the main problem is we have a 10lb min-pin and every product I research says that it's safe for pets "if you follow their instructions". Usually they want the pets out of the yard for a period of time which isn't the most practical for us or the dog.

Anyone have any advice to kill the weeds and get the grass to grow?
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Chino on June 08, 2020, 12:12:15 PM
Speaking of growing grass, my yard is mainly weeds with a little grass thrown in for good measure. My landscaper neighbor tells me that all I need is weed and feed but the main problem is we have a 10lb min-pin and every product I research says that it's safe for pets "if you follow their instructions". Usually they want the pets out of the yard for a period of time which isn't the most practical for us or the dog.

Anyone have any advice to kill the weeds and get the grass to grow?

Can you do it in segments? Weed half the lawn and restrict the dog to the other half and then switch?
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: hunnus2000 on June 08, 2020, 01:29:56 PM
Speaking of growing grass, my yard is mainly weeds with a little grass thrown in for good measure. My landscaper neighbor tells me that all I need is weed and feed but the main problem is we have a 10lb min-pin and every product I research says that it's safe for pets "if you follow their instructions". Usually they want the pets out of the yard for a period of time which isn't the most practical for us or the dog.

Anyone have any advice to kill the weeds and get the grass to grow?

Can you do it in segments? Weed half the lawn and restrict the dog to the other half and then switch?

That's a real good idea that I had not thought of. Is there any product that one favors over another?
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: lordxizor on June 08, 2020, 05:22:54 PM
I'm using an online mail order service called Lawn Serv this summer. They send me a box every month with the products I need to apply. They test a sample of my soil to see what nutrients it's deficient in. There's an all natural option (with no weed control) and even in the option I did with weed control, all of the fertilizers are natural (plant and fish based) and pet friendly. So far so good after two months. The weeds are more under control than they've been in years. Though the first fertilizer smelled a bit like a fishy swamp, but it dissipated quickly.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: hunnus2000 on June 09, 2020, 06:52:20 AM
I'm using an online mail order service called Lawn Serv this summer. They send me a box every month with the products I need to apply. They test a sample of my soil to see what nutrients it's deficient in. There's an all natural option (with no weed control) and even in the option I did with weed control, all of the fertilizers are natural (plant and fish based) and pet friendly. So far so good after two months. The weeds are more under control than they've been in years. Though the first fertilizer smelled a bit like a fishy swamp, but it dissipated quickly.

This looks promising.

Thanks for the tip!  :tup
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Chino on July 21, 2020, 08:46:49 AM
(The fact that I'm even making this post makes me feel old)

Exciting day yesterday, folks. Over the weekend, I finally had it with my Echo weed wacker, so I stopped at Home Depot to buy a replacement. I said to well with an ICE and settled on a cordless 60V Dewalt model. Holy. Fucking. Shit.... the power on this thing is absolutely unreal. On the low setting I'd say it has the same power (if not more) my Echo did, and on high it's just ridiculous. It sawed through everything I put in its path, including some tree saplings. I did everything in the yard I needed to and then just went into the woods and started blasting through stuff, primarily to get an idea how long the battery lasts. I got bored and went in before it ran out, so that's cool.

So PSA: If you're in the market for a new wacker, consider one of those. 
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: gmillerdrake on July 21, 2020, 09:38:02 AM
(The fact that I'm even making this post makes me feel old)

Exciting day yesterday, folks. Over the weekend, I finally had it with my Echo weed wacker, so I stopped at Home Depot to buy a replacement. I said to well with an ICE and settled on a cordless 60V Dewalt model. Holy. Fucking. Shit.... the power on this thing is absolutely unreal. On the low setting I'd say it has the same power (if not more) my Echo did, and on high it's just ridiculous. It sawed through everything I put in its path, including some tree saplings. I did everything in the yard I needed to and then just went into the woods and started blasting through stuff, primarily to get an idea how long the battery lasts. I got bored and went in before it ran out, so that's cool.

So PSA: If you're in the market for a new wacker, consider one of those.


 :lol    Your preface is pretty funny.....but yeah....I'm about to go and switch to battery weed whacker and blower. The ones I have now are corded and are pain in the butt. I bought a KOBALT electric mower last year and it's been great so I think I'm going to buy an additional 40V battery and get the battery whacker and blower.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: jingle.boy on July 21, 2020, 09:45:59 AM
I’ve got the Kobalt mower (had it for years), and blower. Most of my other tools, including trimmer, are Black & Decker... only the 20V batteries tho. 40V makes a huge difference in both power and holding a charge. I go thru 3 batteries to trim the grass - mind you, I have an acre of property.

<awaits dirty jokes>
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: hunnus2000 on July 21, 2020, 10:33:14 AM
We made the jump to battery a couple of years ago. We have an Oregon blower, weed eater and push mower and all three products are awesome!
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: King Postwhore on July 21, 2020, 10:34:06 AM
Yeah, my weed wacker uses a lithium battery.  I don't use a leaf blower anymore. I collect them with my lawnmower and toss them in the woods.  Though my Craftsman lawnmower uses gas.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Chino on July 21, 2020, 10:39:50 AM
I'm on the fence about getting a battery powered leaf blower. I have a bunch of oaks on my property and spend 20+ hours a year between fall and spring clearing hundreds of pounds of leaves (usually wet). I currently use a Husqvarna backpack blower that clocks in just shy of a 300mph breath. Is battery technology at a point yet where it can match that kind of performance for a sustained period of time? I'd love to get a battery-powered blower, but I'm not sure if they're up to snuff yet, for my needs anyway.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: gmillerdrake on July 21, 2020, 10:44:01 AM
I'm on the fence about getting a battery powered leaf blower. I have a bunch of oaks on my property and spend 20+ hours a year between fall and spring clearing hundreds of pounds of leaves (usually wet). I currently use a Husqvarna backpack blower that clocks in just shy of a 300mph breath. Is battery technology at a point yet where it can match that kind of performance for a sustained period of time? I'd love to get a battery-powered blower, but I'm not sure if they're up to snuff yet, for my needs anyway.

Yeah I can understand that. For me it's practical because in large part I'm only blowing grass clippings off the concrete or a small batch of leaves. Large jobs like that makes perfect sense to stick with the power and duration.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Stadler on July 21, 2020, 12:43:23 PM
This makes me feel like a neanderthal. I have a Stihl weedwacker and chainsaw (both gas), and a Craftsman blower and mower (both gas).  I suppose if I ever want to date Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez I need to switch to batteries. 

(I'm just making a joke there, just to say I get that there's a benefit to the environment if I switch.)
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: jingle.boy on July 21, 2020, 12:47:10 PM
This makes me feel like a neanderthal. I have a Stihl weedwacker and chainsaw (both gas), and a Craftsman blower and mower (both gas).  I suppose if I ever want to date Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez I need to switch to batteries. 

(I'm just making a joke there, just to say I get that there's a benefit to the environment if I switch.)

Well, I inherited a John Deere tractor that's probably gonna give me cancer from the emissions it's pumping off, so I'm not 100% green.  Also, the snowthrower is full gas.  Not sure I've ever seen a battery operated snow-thrower, though I wouldn't doubt they're coming.

@ Brian... yeah, I doubt you're gonna find a cost-effective option to match your rocket pack equivalent.  I dunno if 80V models might match it, but then it's gonna be a bitch on your forearms carrying it around.  The 40V is already cumbersome enough that I wouldn't want to be carrying it around for much more than 20-30 minutes at a time.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Chino on July 21, 2020, 12:50:45 PM
(I'm just making a joke there, just to say I get that there's a benefit to the environment if I switch.)

Even if there was no added benefit to the environment itself, I can think of plenty of other perks.

- I hate working on gas engines. Speed controllers, batteries, and brushless motors are very much in my wheelhouse. I think they are easier for the public in general to service themselves as well.
- Reduced noise. You can beat the heat and start yard work earlier without having to worry about waking/pissing off the neighbors
- Increased level of comfort while in use. An electric motor isn't going to want to shake itself apart like an ICE, making them easier to handle for long periods of time.
- NO PULL STARTERS!
- Can converse with neighbors without having to turn the machine off and back on (a PTIA with a backpack blower).
- Wall mounted battery charges take up way less room in a shed or garage than gas cans
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Chino on July 21, 2020, 12:56:31 PM
This makes me feel like a neanderthal. I have a Stihl weedwacker and chainsaw (both gas), and a Craftsman blower and mower (both gas).  I suppose if I ever want to date Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez I need to switch to batteries. 

(I'm just making a joke there, just to say I get that there's a benefit to the environment if I switch.)

Well, I inherited a John Deere tractor that's probably gonna give me cancer from the emissions it's pumping off, so I'm not 100% green.  Also, the snowthrower is full gas.  Not sure I've ever seen a battery operated snow-thrower, though I wouldn't doubt they're coming.

@ Brian... yeah, I doubt you're gonna find a cost-effective option to match your rocket pack equivalent.  I dunno if 80V models might match it, but then it's gonna be a bitch on your forearms carrying it around.  The 40V is already cumbersome enough that I wouldn't want to be carrying it around for much more than 20-30 minutes at a time.

I've seen electric snow blowers with a single stage, but I don't think I've ever seen a two stage one electrified. I'd be shocked if we didn't see those emerge within the next decade.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: lordxizor on July 21, 2020, 12:59:22 PM
We're finally getting our act together to get some stuff done around the house. New flooring, trim, and paint. We've been wanting to do something for years, but have been paralyzed with indecision on what to do. We're now basically deciding that good is better than perfect. Almost anything would be better than what we have now.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Chino on July 21, 2020, 01:04:11 PM
We're finally getting our act together to get some stuff done around the house. New flooring, trim, and paint. We've been wanting to do something for years, but have been paralyzed with indecision on what to do. We're now basically deciding that good is better than perfect. Almost anything would be better than what we have now.

And "perfect" doesn't last that long anyway.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Podaar on July 21, 2020, 01:04:33 PM
We made the switch to all battery yard equipment a couple of years ago (Ego brand). Mower, string trimmer, blower, edger, tiller head for the string trimmer. I've had to replace the string trimmer head (40 bucks) 'cause Mrs. P has a tendency to run it along the ground so the plastic wore down. Other than that, I'll never go back. The battery has enough juice to get through the entire sequence of mow, trim, edge, clean up with the blower...and then some.

If my Cub Cadet snow thrower ever dies, I'll get an Ego snow thrower too.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: hunnus2000 on July 21, 2020, 01:13:20 PM
(I'm just making a joke there, just to say I get that there's a benefit to the environment if I switch.)

Even if there was no added benefit to the environment itself, I can think of plenty of other perks.

- I hate working on gas engines. Speed controllers, batteries, and brushless motors are very much in my wheelhouse. I think they are easier for the public in general to service themselves as well.
- Reduced noise. You can beat the heat and start yard work earlier without having to worry about waking/pissing off the neighbors
- Increased level of comfort while in use. An electric motor isn't going to want to shake itself apart like an ICE, making them easier to handle for long periods of time.
- NO PULL STARTERS!
- Can converse with neighbors without having to turn the machine off and back on (a PTIA with a backpack blower).
- Wall mounted battery charges take up way less room in a shed or garage than gas cans

All great points! One of the reasons we migrated to battery is that when we lived in Dallas, 5 of our immediate neighbors used the same landscape service and they would come on Saturday and if they didn't make it on Saturday, they would work on Sunday and during football season, that would piss me off!!  >:(

Imagine, it's 75 degrees outside, the house is open and a pot of chili is on the stove and your favorite football team is about to kick-off and the noise of power equipment goes on for the next 2 hours!  :censored :censored :censored :censored :censored

That's the main reason why we went battery powered when we moved.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Stadler on July 21, 2020, 01:24:58 PM
(I'm just making a joke there, just to say I get that there's a benefit to the environment if I switch.)

Even if there was no added benefit to the environment itself, I can think of plenty of other perks.

- I hate working on gas engines. Speed controllers, batteries, and brushless motors are very much in my wheelhouse. I think they are easier for the public in general to service themselves as well.
- Reduced noise. You can beat the heat and start yard work earlier without having to worry about waking/pissing off the neighbors
- Increased level of comfort while in use. An electric motor isn't going to want to shake itself apart like an ICE, making them easier to handle for long periods of time.
- NO PULL STARTERS!
- Can converse with neighbors without having to turn the machine off and back on (a PTIA with a backpack blower).
- Wall mounted battery charges take up way less room in a shed or garage than gas cans

It's funny; I am totally the opposite with respect to gas engines.  That's what I grew up on, and can basically make them do what I want.  The batteries are a foreign experience.

You've got me on everything else, by far.   My father in law has electric lawn equipment; I may stop by and see his and see them in action. 
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: cramx3 on July 21, 2020, 01:29:21 PM
I'm not a fan of the gas powered equipment.  I just find it annoying to have to go out and buy the gas and store it.  I use a lawn service so I'm not out there doing it myself anymore, but I did start to move my equipment to electric and have been using a 100ft extension cord because I was concerned about the batteries not lasting.  It works for me because my lawn isn't that big so while moving the power cable is a PITA, at least I know it's going to work.  But yea, lawn work is not my thing at all and I have no desire to ever do it again.... (as I wait for my mexican contractor to clear my front and back yard)
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Chino on July 21, 2020, 01:32:34 PM
(I'm just making a joke there, just to say I get that there's a benefit to the environment if I switch.)

Even if there was no added benefit to the environment itself, I can think of plenty of other perks.

- I hate working on gas engines. Speed controllers, batteries, and brushless motors are very much in my wheelhouse. I think they are easier for the public in general to service themselves as well.
- Reduced noise. You can beat the heat and start yard work earlier without having to worry about waking/pissing off the neighbors
- Increased level of comfort while in use. An electric motor isn't going to want to shake itself apart like an ICE, making them easier to handle for long periods of time.
- NO PULL STARTERS!
- Can converse with neighbors without having to turn the machine off and back on (a PTIA with a backpack blower).
- Wall mounted battery charges take up way less room in a shed or garage than gas cans

It's funny; I am totally the opposite with respect to gas engines.  That's what I grew up on, and can basically make them do what I want.  The batteries are a foreign experience.


Someone gave me an ICE power washer last summer. To start it and keep it running, the trigger needed to always be pulled. I used it once for about 10 minutes, and now it wont even start. What's your diagnosis?
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Skeever on July 21, 2020, 02:02:50 PM
I see this thread on the front page constantly and always forget that I started it. I'm glad that it has been useful to a lot of people!

I was at the bottom in terms of depression/anxiety over the idea of home ownership when I started this thread, and now I'm 5 years in.

Just for shits and giggles, I went back to see whether it was worth it. So far, living in the house has definitely been "more expensive" - my rent would have still be lower than my mortgage. But it's hard to put a price on how much more I get in terms of lifestyle (in additional to the possibility of building equity). Especially this year, with COVID, being a homeowner has really been clutch. I can't imagine being stuck in that 1BR apartment (or even 2BR) still.

There are definitely stresses, though. Last year my HVAC went. This year I needed a new roof. This stuff had me cursing the name of homeownership and wishing I had stayed a renter. But there are less downs than ups. Overall, I'm glad that we decided to buy. One day when money's not a thing, a nice condo with a balcony somewhere between the city and the country would be preferable. But this will do for now...
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: cramx3 on July 21, 2020, 02:10:14 PM
Especially this year, with COVID, being a homeowner has really been clutch. I can't imagine being stuck in that 1BR apartment (or even 2BR) still.

This x100. Not even just being stuck in a smaller place, but being confined to a shared building/property where everyone else is also stuck in their apartments.  I loved my old apartment, it was 2BR and we had a balcony on the back corner of the property so about the most distant from everyone else, but even then, I feel like I'd be agitated and likely agitating others myself during this time we are in.

I have three rooms (bed, couch in the living room, desk in my office), a basement, and a patio to rotate when I work from home so I never get too stale staying in the same spot which is really helpful for someone like myself who quickly gets antsy when sitting in the same spot for an extended time.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Stadler on July 21, 2020, 02:14:38 PM
(I'm just making a joke there, just to say I get that there's a benefit to the environment if I switch.)

Even if there was no added benefit to the environment itself, I can think of plenty of other perks.

- I hate working on gas engines. Speed controllers, batteries, and brushless motors are very much in my wheelhouse. I think they are easier for the public in general to service themselves as well.
- Reduced noise. You can beat the heat and start yard work earlier without having to worry about waking/pissing off the neighbors
- Increased level of comfort while in use. An electric motor isn't going to want to shake itself apart like an ICE, making them easier to handle for long periods of time.
- NO PULL STARTERS!
- Can converse with neighbors without having to turn the machine off and back on (a PTIA with a backpack blower).
- Wall mounted battery charges take up way less room in a shed or garage than gas cans

It's funny; I am totally the opposite with respect to gas engines.  That's what I grew up on, and can basically make them do what I want.  The batteries are a foreign experience.


Someone gave me an ICE power washer last summer. To start it and keep it running, the trigger needed to always be pulled. I used it once for about 10 minutes, and now it wont even start. What's your diagnosis?

The trigger on the actual washer wand?    That's really odd; first thought is a leak or crack in block, or a short of some kind.   ICE are a triangle:  fuel, air, spark.  If you interrupt one of those, you lose.  But the water delivery is usually out of that loop, so that's an interesting problem.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: jingle.boy on July 21, 2020, 04:44:31 PM
There are definitely stresses, though. Last year my HVAC went. This year I needed a new roof. This stuff had me cursing the name of homeownership and wishing I had stayed a renter. But there are less downs than ups. Overall, I'm glad that we decided to buy. One day when money's not a thing, a nice condo with a balcony somewhere between the city and the country would be preferable. But this will do for now...

I've been in this house for 16 months and have had to...

Replace 2 sump pumps
Replace the septic pump (but that was my own dumbass fault fault)
Replace pool furnace
Replace generator
re-pave a portion of the driveway

All (sans the septic pump) courtesy of the previous owners neglect and/or inheriting aged-out appliances.

I'm hoping there's still a few years left on the furnace and AC unit, and the lawn tractor.  :lucien:
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: King Postwhore on July 21, 2020, 04:57:20 PM
We spent $2,900.00 on the bathroom remodel.  Next year it's a new porch.   Plus painting our living room and hallway then a nee carpet. 
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: jingle.boy on July 21, 2020, 06:14:55 PM
We spent $2,900.00 on the bathroom remodel.  Next year it's a new porch.   Plus painting our living room and hallway then a nee carpet.

From the Knights?
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Orbert on July 21, 2020, 06:27:13 PM
Year after next, it's new shrubbery for the front yard.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: jingle.boy on July 21, 2020, 06:29:11 PM
Year after next, it's new shrubbery for the front yard.

(http://replygif.net/i/1187.gif)
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: King Postwhore on July 21, 2020, 06:30:50 PM
We spent $2,900.00 on the bathroom remodel.  Next year it's a new porch.   Plus painting our living room and hallway then a nee carpet.

From the Knights?

I can't get that damn Knight to get a job and his own place!
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: TAC on July 21, 2020, 06:35:12 PM
Year after next, it's new shrubbery for the front yard.

(http://replygif.net/i/1187.gif)

Yay for new shrubs, O!

Why are we cheering for shrubs?
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: King Postwhore on July 21, 2020, 06:36:03 PM
And just like that, the spotlight is off me.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: jingle.boy on July 21, 2020, 08:03:25 PM
And just like that, the spotlight is off me.

 :rollin :rollin :rollin
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Orbert on July 21, 2020, 09:32:23 PM
And just like that, the spotlight is off me.

Dude, you were the one who mentioned nee carpet next year, presumably from the Knights as jingle pointed out.

(https://i.imgur.com/NWL97SL.jpg)

Obviously you have to follow it up with shrubbery.

(https://i.imgur.com/PawpoxC.jpg)

But you have to get it from this guy:

(https://i.imgur.com/U9mbyQC.jpg)
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: jingle.boy on July 21, 2020, 10:19:33 PM
Yeah, but the spotlight is off of him because of Tim’s complete and utter lack of knowledge in pop culture.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Cool Chris on July 21, 2020, 10:22:40 PM
Yeah, but the spotlight is off of him because of Tim’s complete and utter lack of knowledge in pop culture.

And apparently automobile technology, based on the chat thread.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Snow Dog on July 21, 2020, 10:45:34 PM
There are definitely stresses, though. Last year my HVAC went. This year I needed a new roof. This stuff had me cursing the name of homeownership and wishing I had stayed a renter. But there are less downs than ups. Overall, I'm glad that we decided to buy. One day when money's not a thing, a nice condo with a balcony somewhere between the city and the country would be preferable. But this will do for now...

I've been in this house for 16 months and have had to...

Replace 2 sump pumps
Replace the septic pump (but that was my own dumbass fault fault)
Replace pool furnace
Replace generator
re-pave a portion of the driveway

All (sans the septic pump) courtesy of the previous owners neglect and/or inheriting aged-out appliances.

I'm hoping there's still a few years left on the furnace and AC unit, and the lawn tractor.  :lucien:

Did your house not come with a home warranty for the first year, or are rules different in Canada for this sort of thing? We bought a new house in March and the previous owners paid for one for us per the contract our realtor negotiated. It saved our ass when the furnace crapped out and needed replacing literally just a month later. One $75 service call, and the rest was paid for by the warranty. Amazing.

And don’t get me started on previous owner neglect/incompetence. We’re still finding things that need to be addressed.  I’m not the handiest of guys, but I know for sure I could have done a better job than they did with some things. I should have known we’d have a road ahead when they didn’t even have the common damn courtesy to pick up the dog shit in the yard before moving out...
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: jingle.boy on July 22, 2020, 06:29:25 AM
Uhhh... "previous owners" should've been your hint that it wasn't a new home purchase  :biggrin:.  The house was built in 2006
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Snow Dog on July 22, 2020, 07:55:15 AM
And I suppose I phrased things unclearly in saying we got a new home as well, just new to us. Our house was built in 2002, but we still had a home warranty attached to the sale to protect us from big ticket expenses if things failed. That’s why I wasn’t sure if Canada allows that sort of thing as well when buying a house.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: jingle.boy on July 22, 2020, 08:19:42 AM
Ah ... gotchya.  No, I've never heard of buying a warranty on a resold home (and I missed the part where you explained "the previous owner" too!  :lolpalm:

I've never heard of that as a practice here - Real Estate law up here operates under the premise of Caveat Emptor.  Home inspections are done just to ensure everything is on the up-and-up, and buyers can ask the sellers to make any reparations if necessary, or reduce the offer price ... but I've never heard of a 3rd-party warranty.

In some regards, it helped us too, as our last house that we sold, the roof was on it's last legs, and the buyers neglected to get that checked out.  They tried to come back at us to pay for it - with a letter from their lawyer and everything.  Our lawyer spent about 5 minutes drafting up a tersely worded response that it was THEIR negligence in not identifying this as a problem, and go pound sand.

Caveat emptor.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Orbert on July 22, 2020, 08:34:06 AM
When we bought our house, I believe some kind of warranty was required in order to secure financing.  It was our first (and likely only) house, and kinda scary, so I probably would've liked some kind of warranty anyway.  The house was built in the 1960's, and if something big like the furnace died or the bathroom plumbing blew up, that would mean missing house payments while we scramble for cash.  I wouldn't want that, and the financing companies sure don't.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Skeever on July 22, 2020, 08:53:41 AM
We spent $2,900.00 on the bathroom remodel.  Next year it's a new porch.   Plus painting our living room and hallway then a nee carpet.

Whaaaat? That's low. I've had a few quotes on that as well and the lowest bids were for something like 10g.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: cramx3 on July 22, 2020, 08:57:11 AM
My house was sold to me including a 1 year home warranty.  I think it's fairly common in the US.  Of course my AC didn't die until after the warranty expired.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Orbert on July 22, 2020, 09:41:10 AM
I seem to recall that the warranty was required, and automatically added to the house payment, until we'd paid down a certain percentage of the principal, something like 20%, then we could drop it.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: gmillerdrake on July 22, 2020, 09:46:39 AM
I seem to recall that the warranty was required, and automatically added to the house payment, until we'd paid down a certain percentage of the principal, something like 20%, then we could drop it.

I think you might be thinking of PMI Insurance. PMI typically disappears after 20% or so.....we chose to just pay ours off upfront rather than have it part of our payment. Usually PMI takes 6/7 years to pay off of its part of your loan.....we paid $4300 up front to not have the additional $130 a month on our loan.

If you’re gonna move within that 6/7 year timeframe upfront PMI payoff is not a good idea. We knew we weren’t going anywhere for a while so we paid ours off.


As far as the year warranty.....we had that with our first home which came in handy as we ended up needing a new water heater within months.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Stadler on July 22, 2020, 09:53:45 AM
I've owned five houses in my life, and only two had warranties of any kind and both of those were from the builder from whom we bought the house.   I know my stepson was under contract for a home recently and when the inspection came back, the seller offered to throw in a one-year warranty, but the deal fell through before that could be agreed upon.   As an attorney, I'm skeptical; I can't imagine a warranty seller agreeing up front to "warranting' things like 20-year old roofs or 20-year old boilers, which is where your sinkholes appear.  I don't need a warranty on a new roof.  I need to make sure when the roof does finally get replaced in 20 years that I don't now have to pay for a complete replacement of all the underlying plywood.   
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: hunnus2000 on July 22, 2020, 09:58:45 AM
Anybody can get a warranty on their existing house and I actually recommend it if you're in an older home. Also, if your getting a loan then it's the bank that requires an inspection and I would NEVER buy a house without getting an inspection.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: cramx3 on July 22, 2020, 10:01:08 AM
Now i thought an inspection was mandatory but not the warranty.  I really dont know, only bought one house and my mother being the real estate agent made it pretty simple for me and I believe it was her who said it was a good idea to get the warranty.  My house is from 1968 so it's not very new, but I haven't thought about purchasing a warranty since the original one expired years ago.  I usually don't buy warranties on anything, it seems like I spend the money and then get no benefit as the stuff always breaks right after the warranty expires.  It's like the appliances are aware.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: hunnus2000 on July 22, 2020, 10:08:17 AM
Now i thought an inspection was mandatory but not the warranty.  I really don't know, only bought one house and my mother being the real estate agent made it pretty simple for me and I believe it was her who said it was a good idea to get the warranty.  My house is from 1968 so it's not very new, but I haven't thought about purchasing a warranty since the original one expired years ago.  I usually don't buy warranties on anything, it seems like I spend the money and then get no benefit as the stuff always breaks right after the warranty expires.  It's like the appliances are aware.

An inspection is required because the bank is loaning you money. If you pay with cash then no inspection is required. Warranties to my knowledge are not required but are used as an enticement to buy the property. My last house in Dallas was a rental property where the owner had lived in California so it made sense to have a warranty and I kept the warranty for about 3 years after we bought the house.

Also, I now buy extended warranties on many products I buy because it is NOT your imagination, products are not made to last a lifetime.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Orbert on July 22, 2020, 10:15:32 AM
I seem to recall that the warranty was required, and automatically added to the house payment, until we'd paid down a certain percentage of the principal, something like 20%, then we could drop it.

I think you might be thinking of PMI Insurance. PMI typically disappears after 20% or so.....

You're right, it was PMI.


Nevermind.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: eric42434224 on July 22, 2020, 10:53:31 AM
I seem to recall that the warranty was required, and automatically added to the house payment, until we'd paid down a certain percentage of the principal, something like 20%, then we could drop it.

I think you might be thinking of PMI Insurance. PMI typically disappears after 20% or so.....we chose to just pay ours off upfront rather than have it part of our payment. Usually PMI takes 6/7 years to pay off of its part of your loan.....we paid $4300 up front to not have the additional $130 a month on our loan.

If you’re gonna move within that 6/7 year timeframe upfront PMI payoff is not a good idea. We knew we weren’t going anywhere for a while so we paid ours off.


As far as the year warranty.....we had that with our first home which came in handy as we ended up needing a new water heater within months.

I would think pre-paying the PMI is a mistake regardless of how long you live in the house.  If the value of the house increases, Along with you paying down loan, you can pay for an appraisal and show you have 20% equity.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Snow Dog on July 22, 2020, 11:01:20 AM
My house was sold to me including a 1 year home warranty.  I think it's fairly common in the US.  Of course my AC didn't die until after the warranty expired.

We plan on re-upping the warranty when it expires for this very reason. Both the AC and water heater were listed as “consider replacement” on the inspection, so we’re going to keep it active till at least the AC dies.

Sucks that warranties aren’t a thing for house purchases in Canada, jingle. That’s the ultimate in caveat emptor right there.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: jingle.boy on July 22, 2020, 11:06:52 AM
Up here, inspections are just good business practice, but not required by financiers as a condition of financing.  Typically Offers of purchase come with two conditions - full financial approval, and inspection report.  Most people get "pre" approved, but the bank wants to know exactly how much money you'll need, full address, age of the house etc... before giving final approval.  The inspection report will typically give the buyer 24-48 hours to modify the offer (ie, lower the price because the roof is shot, or whatever; or require the sellers to make repairs) if necessary.  When we sold our house, the insurance company of the buyers required an inspection on our fireplace (because it was wood-burning).  That's the only time I've heard of a 3rd party requiring something.  There are mortgage insurance requirements as well.  But until this morning, I'd never heard of a warranty being part of a resell transaction.

Live and learn.

Curious, Snow Dog... how much is the warranty?
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Snow Dog on July 22, 2020, 11:17:05 AM
I’d have to look it up for a sure figure on our purchase, but something to the tune of $400-500/yr if I remember right.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Skeever on July 30, 2020, 06:26:23 AM
New roof goin' up!
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: lordxizor on August 01, 2020, 07:03:13 AM
We have a baby due the end of October, so what do we decide to do? All new flooring on our main floor, new floorboard trim throughout the house, painting all other trim to match, new paint on virtually all of the walls, and painting the ceiling on the main floor. All done by ourselves with help from my father-in-law. It's going to be a busy few months! We've been wanting to do something for years and it'll be nice to finally get it done.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: ReaperKK on August 01, 2020, 07:07:59 AM
That sounds like a lot of work but I'm sure it'll come out great. We had our house painted a few months ago and it really changes the feel of the place.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: lordxizor on August 01, 2020, 07:10:58 AM
That sounds like a lot of work but I'm sure it'll come out great. We had our house painted a few months ago and it really changes the feel of the place.
Yeah, I've painted two of my kids rooms so far and it's amazing what a fresh coat of paint will do.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Podaar on August 03, 2020, 06:32:18 AM
We have a baby due the end of October, so what do we decide to do? All new flooring on our main floor, new floorboard trim throughout the house, painting all other trim to match, new paint on virtually all of the walls, and painting the ceiling on the main floor. All done by ourselves with help from my father-in-law. It's going to be a busy few months! We've been wanting to do something for years and it'll be nice to finally get it done.

Do yourself a favor and buy one of these spray guns (https://www.amazon.com/Graco-17M359-GRACO-Ultra-Airless/dp/B06XCRDR8X/ref=sxin_7_ac_d_rm?ac_md=0-0-Z3JhY28gdGMgcHJv-ac_d_rm&cv_ct_cx=graco+tc+pro&dchild=1&keywords=graco+tc+pro&pd_rd_i=B06XCRDR8X&pd_rd_r=990a5e55-6bbc-4346-8446-7ad20e1f88ee&pd_rd_w=GMghH&pd_rd_wg=FB1zr&pf_rd_p=e3dc9e0c-9eab-4c3e-b43a-ba36f8522e14&pf_rd_r=D9PJCB48MS3NN2GT1X53&psc=1&qid=1596457864&sr=1-1-12d4272d-8adb-4121-8624-135149aa9081). The cordless one is about $100 more. You'll thank me.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: lordxizor on August 03, 2020, 07:00:39 AM
We have a baby due the end of October, so what do we decide to do? All new flooring on our main floor, new floorboard trim throughout the house, painting all other trim to match, new paint on virtually all of the walls, and painting the ceiling on the main floor. All done by ourselves with help from my father-in-law. It's going to be a busy few months! We've been wanting to do something for years and it'll be nice to finally get it done.

Do yourself a favor and buy one of these spray guns (https://www.amazon.com/Graco-17M359-GRACO-Ultra-Airless/dp/B06XCRDR8X/ref=sxin_7_ac_d_rm?ac_md=0-0-Z3JhY28gdGMgcHJv-ac_d_rm&cv_ct_cx=graco+tc+pro&dchild=1&keywords=graco+tc+pro&pd_rd_i=B06XCRDR8X&pd_rd_r=990a5e55-6bbc-4346-8446-7ad20e1f88ee&pd_rd_w=GMghH&pd_rd_wg=FB1zr&pf_rd_p=e3dc9e0c-9eab-4c3e-b43a-ba36f8522e14&pf_rd_r=D9PJCB48MS3NN2GT1X53&psc=1&qid=1596457864&sr=1-1-12d4272d-8adb-4121-8624-135149aa9081). The cordless one is about $100 more. You'll thank me.
We got a paint sprayer, but not one as nice as that. Worked well on all the new trim. I'm going to use it on the ceilings and doors for sure as well as any more trim we need to buy.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: ReaperKK on August 04, 2020, 06:32:59 AM
I know I'm getting old when I'm excited about the pressure washer I just ordered.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: cramx3 on August 04, 2020, 08:17:15 AM
I know I'm getting old when I'm excited about the pressure washer I just ordered.

 :lol I may need one myself.  Yesterday had a bunch of mexicans over to clear up all the overgrown trees, bushes, and weeds around my house.  Now I can see how badly my house and fences need to be power washed.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: ReaperKK on August 04, 2020, 08:19:25 AM
It's strangely stratifying pressure washing something.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: hunnus2000 on August 04, 2020, 08:56:31 AM
I want a pressure washer but I think I would only use it once every two years or so.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Stadler on August 04, 2020, 09:10:05 AM
It's strangely stratifying pressure washing something.


This.   It's hard to explain.   
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: cramx3 on August 04, 2020, 09:15:37 AM
It's strangely stratifying pressure washing something.


This.   It's hard to explain.

I've heard some people say they enjoy painting, I don't get that, but I'll agree here that pressure washing is a bit enjoyable.  It does get old quick enough (as in, I'm not enjoying it anymore while I still need to do it).  I think it's just the wielding of something powerful that is fun and you get the instant gratification of seeing the cleanse.  My contractor who did the yard work for me offered a guy to do the pressure wash but I think that's something I'd rather do myself for this reason.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Chino on August 04, 2020, 09:18:13 AM
Here's some power washing porn

https://old.reddit.com/r/powerwashingporn/top/


I might be in the market for a new power washer. I got one for free two years ago, but it never worked quite right, and now I can't get it to start. I don't know if I should just bring it to a place for repair, or if I should pull the trigger on a new one.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Stadler on August 04, 2020, 09:38:05 AM
Here's some power washing porn

https://old.reddit.com/r/powerwashingporn/top/


I might be in the market for a new power washer. I got one for free two years ago, but it never worked quite right, and now I can't get it to start. I don't know if I should just bring it to a place for repair, or if I should pull the trigger on a new one.

They're reasonably priced, but if you have a guy near you, it's probably worth a quick look.   I got mine for free too, from a family friend who couldn't get it started either.   It's a Briggs-Stratton motor - i.e. rock solid - and it was $75 and a cleaning/tuneup and it was running perfectly.  I get vapor lock now and again, after I've used it a fair amount, but other than that, it runs like new.   These are not complicated engines, and unless it's just shot, usually can be fixed pretty cheap (now if it runs, but doesn't pump, that's a different story; at that point it's probably worth it to buy a new one rather than replace the pump and all the seals and stuff.)
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Stadler on August 04, 2020, 09:40:12 AM
It's strangely stratifying pressure washing something.


This.   It's hard to explain.

I've heard some people say they enjoy painting, I don't get that, but I'll agree here that pressure washing is a bit enjoyable.  It does get old quick enough (as in, I'm not enjoying it anymore while I still need to do it).  I think it's just the wielding of something powerful that is fun and you get the instant gratification of seeing the cleanse.  My contractor who did the yard work for me offered a guy to do the pressure wash but I think that's something I'd rather do myself for this reason.

I did the whole house this past spring, and by the nature of the work, I had my raincoat on but was still soaked through.   My family got a big kick out of seeing me, but it was a fun weekend.   Seriously, it was fun, plus I got the pride of seeing the house without that green film that had been there since we bought the place. 
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Chino on August 04, 2020, 09:44:25 AM
Here's some power washing porn

https://old.reddit.com/r/powerwashingporn/top/


I might be in the market for a new power washer. I got one for free two years ago, but it never worked quite right, and now I can't get it to start. I don't know if I should just bring it to a place for repair, or if I should pull the trigger on a new one.

They're reasonably priced, but if you have a guy near you, it's probably worth a quick look.   I got mine for free too, from a family friend who couldn't get it started either.   It's a Briggs-Stratton motor - i.e. rock solid - and it was $75 and a cleaning/tuneup and it was running perfectly.  I get vapor lock now and again, after I've used it a fair amount, but other than that, it runs like new.   These are not complicated engines, and unless it's just shot, usually can be fixed pretty cheap (now if it runs, but doesn't pump, that's a different story; at that point it's probably worth it to buy a new one rather than replace the pump and all the seals and stuff.)

So when I got it, it worked perfectly, with the exception that the trigger needed to be pulled in order to start it and keep the engine running. If you let it go, it'd turn off. No idea what that could be. Like I said in another post, I'm a speed controller and brushless motor kind of guy  :lol
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Stadler on August 04, 2020, 09:58:51 AM
Here's some power washing porn

https://old.reddit.com/r/powerwashingporn/top/


I might be in the market for a new power washer. I got one for free two years ago, but it never worked quite right, and now I can't get it to start. I don't know if I should just bring it to a place for repair, or if I should pull the trigger on a new one.

They're reasonably priced, but if you have a guy near you, it's probably worth a quick look.   I got mine for free too, from a family friend who couldn't get it started either.   It's a Briggs-Stratton motor - i.e. rock solid - and it was $75 and a cleaning/tuneup and it was running perfectly.  I get vapor lock now and again, after I've used it a fair amount, but other than that, it runs like new.   These are not complicated engines, and unless it's just shot, usually can be fixed pretty cheap (now if it runs, but doesn't pump, that's a different story; at that point it's probably worth it to buy a new one rather than replace the pump and all the seals and stuff.)

So when I got it, it worked perfectly, with the exception that the trigger needed to be pulled in order to start it and keep the engine running. If you let it go, it'd turn off. No idea what that could be. Like I said in another post, I'm a speed controller and brushless motor kind of guy  :lol

Yeah, I remember we talked about that.   Internal combustion engines are spark, fuel and air.   The trigger on the sprayer should have no effect on any of those (on all the pressure washers I've ever seen, it's a mechanical valve controlling the water flow).  The only thing it could be would be a short that removes/allows the spark, far less likely, a leak that having the trigger NOT pulled is interrupting air or fuel flow, and the relief of pressure upon pulling the trigger allows the motor to run.   THAT, if you haven't fixed it, may be a reason for a new one. 
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: ReaperKK on August 04, 2020, 02:49:21 PM
It's strangely stratifying pressure washing something.


This.   It's hard to explain.

I've heard some people say they enjoy painting, I don't get that, but I'll agree here that pressure washing is a bit enjoyable.  It does get old quick enough (as in, I'm not enjoying it anymore while I still need to do it).  I think it's just the wielding of something powerful that is fun and you get the instant gratification of seeing the cleanse.  My contractor who did the yard work for me offered a guy to do the pressure wash but I think that's something I'd rather do myself for this reason.

I think I mentioned it earlier but I hate painting. I painted a tons years ago when I was working at the hotel and I never, ever want to do it again.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Chino on August 04, 2020, 05:26:16 PM
If I build a model or something, I absolutely love painting. When it comes to homes, inside and out, hard pass.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: jingle.boy on August 04, 2020, 06:54:58 PM
I'm ok with it, so long as there aren't a lot of angles or cuts.  We hired for the last job we did, because our main floor here had a couple of vaulted areas, lots of angles and cuts to manage around.  Four square walls, and I'm good.  Otherwise, pay the pros.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Cool Chris on August 04, 2020, 07:55:01 PM
A pressure washer is definitely one of those things that once I got one, I couldn't believe I had lived without one for so long.

And nobody likes painting. That and drywall work are among the most hated jobs at my company that we all have to do, as pretty much every job will require some amount of each.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: lordxizor on August 05, 2020, 04:47:31 AM
Painting can be ok at times. It's certainly satisfying to see the finished work, but it can be annoying while you're doing it. I've been waiting a lot of trim and doors the last few days. That's worse than walls somehow.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Stadler on August 05, 2020, 11:39:10 AM
Downside of homeownership!   Tropical Storm Isaias came through and we got about four hours of sustained tropical storm force winds.  I lost a tree at my house, and power was out from 8:30 last night to about 11:00 this morning, and at my son's house, better with power (only about four hours without) but three trees came down, one blocking the road (so I felt obligated to move it) and the other two each taking sections out of the back yard fence.   Yay. 

(And can I just say, people are dicks.   I'm not well-known in the neighborhood, good or bad, but I'm out there in 30 mph winds, moving a good portion of tree by myself so the road is passable (it's the main way into a lakefront neighborhood, even though I'm not on the lake) and I'm getting beeps, and dirty looks, and.... you know, fuck you.  I could have very easily called the town and said "I can't do this" and left it.   I'm lucky I'm able-bodied and enjoy that work; the branches were big enough to require a chainsaw.)
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: jingle.boy on August 05, 2020, 02:42:42 PM
Were they honking cuz you weren't moving fast enough?  If you weren't moving the tree, where the fuck were they gonna go?  Sorry, maybe I'm just not picturing the situation correctly.  Tree blocks road; good samaritan is moving said tree; other drivers honk and give dirty looks.

Does not compute.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: cramx3 on August 05, 2020, 05:36:05 PM
My buddy a local cop was working during the storm and was positioned to block off a road with a downed tree on a powerline.  He was so annoyed with all the people who asked if they could pass. I saw the picture too, a huge tree completely covering the road.  Like how dumb are you to think you could drive through that, not only that though, the powerline buried underneath the tree.  People are such selfish assholes at times.  I would have given those people a middle finger and just turned around and walked away.  If I felt inclined, would come back after they realized they were assholes and left.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Stadler on August 06, 2020, 10:30:56 AM
Were they honking cuz you weren't moving fast enough?  If you weren't moving the tree, where the fuck were they gonna go?  Sorry, maybe I'm just not picturing the situation correctly.  Tree blocks road; good samaritan is moving said tree; other drivers honk and give dirty looks.

Does not compute.


That was pretty much it.  Like I was holding them up.   Jokes on them, though; my stepson's dad lives over there too, and they didn't lose power until YESTERDAY, and it's still off.  I don't really believe in karma but if I did......... 
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: cramx3 on August 06, 2020, 10:33:47 AM
That was pretty much it.  Like I was holding them up.   Jokes on them, though; my stepson's dad lives over there too, and they didn't lose power until YESTERDAY, and it's still off.  I don't really believe in karma but if I did.........

The power has been so weird in my area.  I got my power back the evening of the storm, but yesterday I lost it again for like 5 minutes, but my friend a few miles away who lost it at the same time didn't get his back for another 3 hours.  Then I heard of people losing it TODAY. My guess is some of the work to fix the down lines meant they needed to or maybe accidently, took down other power working lines in an effort to fix the bigger picture.  Just seemed weird.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Phoenix87x on August 18, 2020, 10:06:22 AM
Does anyone pay extra beyond their regular monthly mortgage payment? I feel like everything is just going to interest  :P
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: ReaperKK on August 18, 2020, 10:38:23 AM
I toss an extra payment or two a year towards principal to try and chip away at it.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Chino on August 18, 2020, 10:56:33 AM
Does anyone pay extra beyond their regular monthly mortgage payment? I feel like everything is just going to interest  :P

I do a little bit. Every year I pay maybe two months worth of principal more. I used to do a lot more, but stopped. I decided I could make way more money investing the money I was throwing at the principal and would be better off that way long term.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: jingle.boy on August 18, 2020, 11:09:41 AM
I toss an extra payment or two a year towards principal to try and chip away at it.

I always wanted and meant to, but never did - there was always higher interest debt to pay down first, as well as RRSP (our equivalent of 401k) and TFSA (Tax Free Savings Account) contributions to make.  Given how low mortgage rates were for most of the time I carried a mortgage, it was financially more prudent to prioritize these things ahead of additional mortgage payments.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Chino on August 18, 2020, 11:14:44 AM
disregard
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: cramx3 on August 18, 2020, 11:23:24 AM
I toss an extra payment or two a year towards principal to try and chip away at it.

I always wanted and meant to, but never did - there was always higher interest debt to pay down first, as well as RRSP (our equivalent of 401k) and TFSA (Tax Free Savings Account) contributions to make.  Given how low mortgage rates were for most of the time I carried a mortgage, it was financially more prudent to prioritize these things ahead of additional mortgage payments.

While this is a good reason not to pay more into it, for me, it's just a mindset.  My mortgage is the same every month and should be (besides the tax increases) the same for the life of the 30 year loan.  It's such a long term thing, that I don't see it the same as my car loan where I drop more every payment so that I can clear the loan sooner than later.  I don't see myself hacking away at the 30 year loan so easily that I'd just rather put any extra money somewhere else (like the car loan, or towards a vacation).  I've always just kind of treated my mortgage like paying rent except in the end, I'll have some equity in those payments.

I really need to refinance though

I looked at zillow the other day and my house is now worth almost 100k more than what I paid for it.  That right there is a nice benefit to home ownership.  Bought in when the market was way down and its only been climbing up.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: hunnus2000 on August 18, 2020, 11:30:59 AM
I toss an extra payment or two a year towards principal to try and chip away at it.

I always wanted and meant to, but never did - there was always higher interest debt to pay down first, as well as RRSP (our equivalent of 401k) and TFSA (Tax Free Savings Account) contributions to make.  Given how low mortgage rates were for most of the time I carried a mortgage, it was financially more prudent to prioritize these things ahead of additional mortgage payments.


While this is a good reason not to pay more into it, for me, it's just a mindset.  My mortgage is the same every month and should be (besides the tax increases) the same for the life of the 30 year loan.  It's such a long term thing, that I don't see it the same as my car loan where I drop more every payment so that I can clear the loan sooner than later.  I don't see myself hacking away at the 30 year loan so easily that I'd just rather put any extra money somewhere else (like the car loan, or towards a vacation).  I've always just kind of treated my mortgage like paying rent except in the end, I'll have some equity in those payments.

I really need to refinance though

I looked at zillow the other day and my house is now worth almost 100k more than what I paid for it.  That right there is a nice benefit to home ownership.  Bought in when the market was way down and its only been climbing up.

I don't know your situation but we started out on a 30 year note and years later refinanced on a 15 year note. We only had 50K on our note when we sold it for 3 times what we bought it for. If you refinance then seriously consider a 15 year note. Also, they say if you apply an extra monthly payment per year you can pay off the note quicker.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: kirksnosehair on August 18, 2020, 11:46:33 AM
OK, but paying 1 extra monthly payment per year on a 30-year fixed rate mortgage will shave 7 years off.  I've already paid one mortgage off that way.  In fact, we did it in 17 years because we made more than 1 extra payment per year. 


Our current home's value has soared since we moved in and we've been here 7 years now.  We're going to refinance very soon and it will be a 15 year note at 2.7% - those rates are freaking insanely good.  This is going to save us almost $75,000 in interest payments we would have made if we flipped our current note into another 30-year.  I'm too old for that shit, lol 
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: cramx3 on August 18, 2020, 12:34:46 PM
Of course if you pay more you will shorten the life of the loan, but the loan is so long and the payments so large that I just would rather put that money somewhere else personally.  BUt also, I will be looking at a 15 year refinance.  I may be able to reduce the years significantly without paying much more per month. 
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: jingle.boy on August 18, 2020, 01:10:37 PM
OK, but paying 1 extra monthly payment per year on a 30-year fixed rate mortgage will shave 7 years off. I've already paid one mortgage off that way.  In fact, we did it in 17 years because we made more than 1 extra payment per year. 

Fair point, and completely accurate mathematically speaking.  On the other hand,  one could invest that money into a $401k which will probably deliver higher returns over the course of its life than the interest on a mortgage.  Even with the increase in equity in the house, paying down a liability vs investing in an asset is oftentimes a matter of choice. 

One should always look to decrease the amortization period when refinancing.  Keep (if it's possible) the bi-weekly payment the same (and for God's sake, pay bi-weekly, not twice a month or monthly!!!) and reduce the amortization.  That's what I did every time I financed.  My first mortgage was 25-years in 1999.  I moved once, and refinanced twice, and shaved 6 years off the total period.  Luckily, with the severance from my mid-life retirement, I was able to paydown my entire balance when I would've still had 2 years left.  Mortgage free after 17.5 years.  :fistpump:
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: hunnus2000 on August 19, 2020, 07:12:56 AM
It's quite a rocking feeling being mortgage free!  :metal

On a separate subject - anyone have the unfortunate experience of dealing with moles?
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: lordxizor on August 19, 2020, 08:01:39 AM
I've decided when I hit 50 (I'm 39 now) I'll start paying off the mortgage faster, but until then I'm socking away everything extra into my 401k and Roth IRA. The compounding growth of those investments should far outweigh the benefits of paying of a 3.5% mortgage faster. Once I'm 50, there's less time for investments to grow before retirement, and I really want to have my mortgage paid off prior to retiring (currently gunning to retire at age 58).
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Stadler on August 19, 2020, 08:02:22 AM
It's quite a rocking feeling being mortgage free!  :metal

On a separate subject - anyone have the unfortunate experience of dealing with moles?

Insiders giving your secrets away?  Not really.   I confided once in a "friend" at work and found out they were sleeping with the finance person; that was awkward.  And I said some stuff to my ex-wife's new boyfriend that got back to her, but I should have expected that.   But that's about it.

EDIT:  Sorry.  I re-read that and you probably don't mean insiders giving your secrets away.  Moles are serious, and you need to get them checked out.  They could well lead to skin cancer.  I haven't had any yet, but my dad has (so I should be diligent) and my wife has a mole on her back that we're watching, to see if it changed shape or color.

EDIT 2:  Of COURSE you mean those pesky buggers that dig up your yard.  I've avoided that problem largely through the years, but it seems I have that problem now.  Or at least SOMETHING digging a warren in my side yard (it could be rabbits, because we have two that we see regularly in our yard).   My grandfather used to have them bad (picture Bill Murray in Caddyshack, but dressed like the guy in that painting "American Gothic") and he used to smoke them out or use those insidious traps that drove a spike down through the soil.  They're a pain in the ass and you have to deal with them, because they will interfere with any underground utilities and make your lawn look a mess. 
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: jingle.boy on August 19, 2020, 09:00:20 AM
Leave it to a Lawyer to think about "moles" in three different contexts, and in that order.  Took you a while to remember you were in the "home ownership" thread?  :lol
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: gmillerdrake on August 19, 2020, 09:09:01 AM
We're going to refinance very soon and it will be a 15 year note at 2.7% -

Once I get started at the new job I just accepted and get a couple paychecks in we are going to refinance to a 15 year. We were in the end stages of refinancing when I got furloughed. I pulled out of the process because our lender offered a 'covid 19' deferment program to help with people who had lost jobs or were furloughed so I wanted to take advantage of it.

Essentially the program is interest and principle get back loaded onto the loan and you just make your escrow payment. You could choose this option in 3 month increments up to 1 year. When you come off of the program you can then choose to either make the payments you missed or then just add them to the back end of your loan.

We 'technically' could have continued to make the payments but it'd have really put a strain on us.....so, I just chose to utilize the option.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: kirksnosehair on August 19, 2020, 11:49:25 AM
OK, but paying 1 extra monthly payment per year on a 30-year fixed rate mortgage will shave 7 years off. I've already paid one mortgage off that way.  In fact, we did it in 17 years because we made more than 1 extra payment per year. 

Fair point, and completely accurate mathematically speaking.  On the other hand,  one could invest that money into a $401k which will probably deliver higher returns over the course of its life than the interest on a mortgage.  Even with the increase in equity in the house, paying down a liability vs investing in an asset is oftentimes a matter of choice. 

One should always look to decrease the amortization period when refinancing.  Keep (if it's possible) the bi-weekly payment the same (and for God's sake, pay bi-weekly, not twice a month or monthly!!!) and reduce the amortization.  That's what I did every time I financed.  My first mortgage was 25-years in 1999.  I moved once, and refinanced twice, and shaved 6 years off the total period.  Luckily, with the severance from my mid-life retirement, I was able to paydown my entire balance when I would've still had 2 years left.  Mortgage free after 17.5 years.  :fistpump:


We'll be done in 8 more years.  That will be the last mortgage for me, I think.  I'll be 65 and we'll be looking at retirement communities in Georgia so I can be near my son and grandkids.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: hunnus2000 on August 19, 2020, 11:56:57 AM
It's quite a rocking feeling being mortgage free!  :metal

On a separate subject - anyone have the unfortunate experience of dealing with moles?

EDIT 2:  Of COURSE you mean those pesky buggers that dig up your yard.  I've avoided that problem largely through the years, but it seems I have that problem now.  Or at least SOMETHING digging a warren in my side yard (it could be rabbits, because we have two that we see regularly in our yard).   My grandfather used to have them bad (picture Bill Murray in Caddyshack, but dressed like the guy in that painting "American Gothic") and he used to smoke them out or use those insidious traps that drove a spike down through the soil.  They're a pain in the ass and you have to deal with them, because they will interfere with any underground utilities and make your lawn look a mess.

Ding ding ding! Yes - this one!

You're hilarious dude.  :D
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Stadler on August 19, 2020, 01:49:50 PM
Leave it to a Lawyer to think about "moles" in three different contexts, and in that order.  Took you a while to remember you were in the "home ownership" thread?  :lol

Blowing off steam, my friend.  That was all just to amuse myself, more or less.  :)
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: jingle.boy on August 19, 2020, 03:04:00 PM
Leave it to a Lawyer to think about "moles" in three different contexts, and in that order.  Took you a while to remember you were in the "home ownership" thread?  :lol

Blowing off steam, my friend.  That was all just to amuse myself, more or less.  :)

(http://replygif.net/i/1401.gif)
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: ReaperKK on August 19, 2020, 04:33:01 PM
For an anniversary gift my wife got someone to do the lawn for the rest of the year and I think I may just keep it next year. This guy did a much better job than I have ever done in less time and u also didn't have spend time in the crazy heat we have.

This sound stupid but I feel like less of a man and home owner having someone do the lawn :lol
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: cramx3 on August 19, 2020, 06:12:15 PM
My lawn was just done today by my new weekly mower, Sergio. I have no shame in saying I want nothing to do with taking care of my lawn. Sergio also did all a huge job for me with all the weeds and overgrown trees and bushes. Spent a lot of money but well worth it.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: jingle.boy on August 19, 2020, 06:21:19 PM
My lawn was just done today by my new weekly mower, Sergio. I have no shame in saying I want nothing to do with taking care of my lawn. Sergio also did all a huge job for me with all the weeds and overgrown trees and bushes. Spent a lot of money but well worth it.

So, a handy?
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: TAC on August 19, 2020, 06:34:42 PM
My lawn was just done today by my new weekly mower, Sergio. I have no shame in saying I want nothing to do with taking care of my lawn. Sergio also did all a huge job for me with all the weeds and overgrown trees and bushes. Spent a lot of money but well worth it.

Sergio??

(https://media1.tenor.com/images/04620388a3bb1c01e57b1a3868b3c85e/tenor.gif?itemid=5204028)
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: jingle.boy on August 19, 2020, 06:37:58 PM
Glorious!
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: TAC on August 19, 2020, 06:39:46 PM
Sergiox3 style!
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Stadler on August 20, 2020, 07:22:52 AM
^^ :) :) :)   

That's funny.  We need some "reaction videos" by Sergio as he conquers your lawn.  :) 
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: cramx3 on August 20, 2020, 07:44:00 AM
 :rollin
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Chino on August 20, 2020, 07:53:12 AM
I never had to mow a lawn until I bought my house. We never owned any lawn equipment growing up. My parents had a crew come in once a week. It's an overrated experience.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: The Walrus on August 20, 2020, 07:55:54 AM
My lawn was just done today by my new weekly mower, Sergio. I have no shame in saying I want nothing to do with taking care of my lawn. Sergio also did all a huge job for me with all the weeds and overgrown trees and bushes. Spent a lot of money but well worth it.

Sergio??

(https://media1.tenor.com/images/04620388a3bb1c01e57b1a3868b3c85e/tenor.gif?itemid=5204028)

I bet you don't even know what that GIF is from. It's hilarious.  :rollin :rollin
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: cramx3 on August 20, 2020, 07:59:13 AM
Chappelle show?  That gif is hysterical

I never had to mow a lawn until I bought my house. We never owned any lawn equipment growing up. My parents had a crew come in once a week. It's an overrated experience.

My parents would have me mow the lawn and in return my dad would buy the WWF pay per views for me, that was our deal.  I must say I never loved doing the yard work, but I really liked wrestling those days.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: The Walrus on August 20, 2020, 08:06:14 AM
Mowing the grass rocks as an adult. I throw on some music and go to town. Actually when I was a kid the flip switched as soon as I got an iPod - that suddenly made yard work so much more bearable. I love when the grass is super tall. It's like washing a REALLY dirty car, it feels so satisfying to see such a difference.

And yeah, it's the gay America skit from Chappelle's Show  :lol

I'm being hyperbolic here, but I don't trust people who don't cut their own grass.  :lol
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Stadler on August 20, 2020, 08:06:33 AM
I dunno; I'm old school like that, it seems.  We had a service for a while, but I usually cut mine.  I do the weed whacking too, and I even bought a "burn barrel" to put in the woods to occasionally burn the clippings and twigs/sticks I pick up around the yard.  It takes time, and it's not easy in 95 degree heat, but it's decent exercise to get outside and sweat a little bit.

Back when I worked at GE, I worked with two brothers that were a lot more hands-on, and they would diss some of the senior executives with "that guy doesn't cut his own lawn".  Didn't really make sense to me at the time but I sort of get it now.   (Not saying I AGREE, just that I get it.)
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: lordxizor on August 20, 2020, 08:24:39 AM
I bought a new, electric lawn mower this season and now have my kids mow the lawn. I pay them $5 to mow while I sit and drink a beer while supervising. Having kids is finally good for something! :)
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: jingle.boy on August 20, 2020, 09:28:40 AM
I bought a new, electric lawn mower this season and now have my kids mow the lawn. I pay them $5 to mow while I sit and drink a beer while supervising. Having kids is finally good for something! :)

The lot at our last house, which was decent sized, but not nearly the acre field I have now, jingle.kids (as teenagers) owned responsibility for mowing - also with an cordless mower.  5 summers of bliss having them do it.  Now, mrs.jingle/jingle daughter take care of the smaller side/backyard, and I/jingle.son split responsibility for the side field/front year.  Still takes almost 2 hours for that even with a tractor.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: kirksnosehair on August 21, 2020, 01:50:31 PM
My lawn was just done today by my new weekly mower, Sergio. I have no shame in saying I want nothing to do with taking care of my lawn. Sergio also did all a huge job for me with all the weeds and overgrown trees and bushes. Spent a lot of money but well worth it.


I haven't mowed my lawn or done any yard work since I moved into the house I'm in now.  It really boils down to time for me.  I don't get a lot of free time and a large portion of the free time I do get is spent at the gym, staying in shape so I can keep working and paying the bills.  I'd rather play my guitar or hang out with my grand kids or my dogs than mow the lawn.  So I pay to have the yard maintained.  I consider myself very fortunate that I can afford such things.

Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: hunnus2000 on August 22, 2020, 08:11:29 AM
There is absolutely no shame in having a landscaping company do the yardwork! I mowed, edged, trimmed the hedges and pruned the trees and raked the leaves - once in the winter and once in the spring. After about 4 years of that, I said fuck it and got a service and was never happier. I also maintained my pool and in the last year we were in the house, I said fuck it and got a pool service and was wondered why I hadn't done this earlier.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: lordxizor on August 22, 2020, 11:43:57 AM
Yeah, if you can afford it, there's no shame in hiring a professional to do the work you hate to do.

I spent this week ripping out our flooring, the laminate came up easy, but ripping up 1/4" plywood with two layers of linoleum on it in the dining and kitchen was a pain in the ass to say the least. The new stuff is going in today with the help of my brothers in law. Looking good so far. I just hope the wife is happy with it.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: TAC on August 22, 2020, 05:45:32 PM
A couple summers ago when I had my hernia done, we paid to have the lawn cut. I have a full acre, and the guy charged me $35 or $45 every two weeks for the whole thing. Well worth it.

I was going to hire him the following summer, but he kind of neglected the Spring Cleanup, and that was that. I'm back to mowing.


I generally hate the thought of it. but once I get going, it is prime music listenage.

Takes about a 30/40 minutes for the front and about an hour and a half, with breaks, to do the back.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: ReaperKK on August 22, 2020, 05:50:22 PM
Yeah, if you can afford it, there's no shame in hiring a professional to do the work you hate to do.

I spent this week ripping out our flooring, the laminate came up easy, but ripping up 1/4" plywood with two layers of linoleum on it in the dining and kitchen was a pain in the ass to say the least. The new stuff is going in today with the help of my brothers in law. Looking good so far. I just hope the wife is happy with it.

Did you use one of those peelers to get the linoleum up? What are you putting down?

A couple summers ago when I had my hernia done, we paid to have the lawn cut. I have a full acre, and the guy charged me $35 or $45 every two weeks for the whole thing. Well worth it.

I was going to hire him the following summer, but he kind of neglected the Spring Cleanup, and that was that. I'm back to mowing.


I generally hate the thought of it. but once I get going, it is prime music listenage.

Takes about a 30/40 minutes for the front and about an hour and a half, with breaks, to do the back.

I like doing the lawn too when it's nice outside in the spring and fall but now temps are in the mid 90's and it takes about 2 hours to do the lawn and it's a killer. The guy I got has some really nice stuff lawn equipment so he knocks it out in 40 minutes.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: jingle.boy on August 22, 2020, 06:22:29 PM
I generally hate the thought of it. but once I get going, it is prime music listenage.

Takes about a 30/40 minutes for the front and about an hour and a half, with breaks, to do the back.

Ditto. It’s about a 90 minute job for me start to finish. Faster this time of year, because it’s been so dry the last 2 August’s. We only have 3 trees on our property, so there isn’t a lot of shade, and it’s pretty dry ecology - It’s all clay about 2 inches down. in the spring and early summer, it’s 2+hrs.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: TAC on August 22, 2020, 08:06:39 PM
I generally hate the thought of it. but once I get going, it is prime music listenage.

Takes about a 30/40 minutes for the front and about an hour and a half, with breaks, to do the back.

Ditto. It’s about a 90 minute job for me start to finish. Faster this time of year, because it’s been so dry the last 2 August’s. We only have 3 trees on our property, so there isn’t a lot of shade, and it’s pretty dry ecology - It’s all clay about 2 inches down. in the spring and early summer, it’s 2+hrs.

Well, I think you said you had a rider. It's all walking for me. I haven't cut my back in at least a month. But it's been so hot, it's not growing like crazy.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: ReaperKK on August 22, 2020, 08:37:59 PM
You guys are lucky. This year we've had a lot of rain and a crab grass explosion despite the preimergent treatments I did.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: lordxizor on August 23, 2020, 03:55:26 AM
Yeah, if you can afford it, there's no shame in hiring a professional to do the work you hate to do.

I spent this week ripping out our flooring, the laminate came up easy, but ripping up 1/4" plywood with two layers of linoleum on it in the dining and kitchen was a pain in the ass to say the least. The new stuff is going in today with the help of my brothers in law. Looking good so far. I just hope the wife is happy with it.

Did you use one of those peelers to get the linoleum up? What are you putting down?
There was two layers of linoleum over a 1/4" plywood layer. I started trying to rip up the linoleum until I realized the plywood was there. It was easier to just pry up the plywood. We put down premium vinyl planks. Basically looks like wood but made out of plastic. With 4 young boys, we wanted to go with something waterproof and durable. Looks great so far. Need to get all the trim on next.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: ReaperKK on August 23, 2020, 06:09:20 AM
Nice, a few of my friends put down vinyl planks and I think they are really nice.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: jingle.boy on August 23, 2020, 06:09:41 AM
You guys are lucky. This year we've had a lot of rain and a crab grass explosion despite the preimergent treatments I did.

There’s been a shit ton of crabgrass in my area too. And a handful of other weeds as well.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: cramx3 on August 23, 2020, 02:47:20 PM
This orbweaver has made a home next to my back door on my patio, it's web stretches about 5 feet across from the railing near the door (my back door has 3 steps down to the patio) to the side of my house.  Typically I'm not really into having such huge insects close by, but I'm so fascinated when I grill or just chill outside and watch it weave the web or when it wraps up and eats a fly it caught.  If I had kids or an outdoor pet, I'd probably put an end to it, but it seems harmless although big and nasty looking.  I don't know if this is actually a benefit of home ownership, but I'm totally fascinated by the nature on my small property

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EgHckofWkAAHkZ0?format=jpg&name=small)
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: axeman90210 on August 23, 2020, 08:41:22 PM
Nope, I think it's time for you to find someplace new to live.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: ReaperKK on August 24, 2020, 06:56:56 AM
We have a few of those in the summertime, I try not to bother them as they end up killing a ton of flies.

Has anyone here fixed peeling latex paint? There is a spot in my guest bathroom where the curtain rod was put back on wet paint. I just tried moving the rod higher and ended up peeling a bit of the paint. Is it just sand - patch - paint over the spot?
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Stadler on August 24, 2020, 07:19:13 AM
I generally hate the thought of it. but once I get going, it is prime music listenage.

Takes about a 30/40 minutes for the front and about an hour and a half, with breaks, to do the back.

Ditto. It’s about a 90 minute job for me start to finish. Faster this time of year, because it’s been so dry the last 2 August’s. We only have 3 trees on our property, so there isn’t a lot of shade, and it’s pretty dry ecology - It’s all clay about 2 inches down. in the spring and early summer, it’s 2+hrs.

Well, I think you said you had a rider. It's all walking for me. I haven't cut my back in at least a month. But it's been so hot, it's not growing like crazy.

This seems like a different thread, now.  ;)
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Stadler on August 24, 2020, 07:24:52 AM
We have a few of those in the summertime, I try not to bother them as they end up killing a ton of flies.

Has anyone here fixed peeling latex paint? There is a spot in my guest bathroom where the curtain rod was put back on wet paint. I just tried moving the rod higher and ended up peeling a bit of the paint. Is it just sand - patch - paint over the spot?


Pretty much, unless there's damage to the wallboard underneath.   You have to be very careful with sanding, though; you want to sand enough to feather the edges of the old paint, so you don't have that "crater" look when you're done, but you DO NOT want to to scuff whatever the surface is underneath.  If it's wallboard, it's essentially paper, and so it will have the tendency to "ball up" and hard to cover smoothly.  And with water/steam, if you don't get it covered, that will potentially lead to problems.   I'm not trying to scare you, because it's not a big deal, just be careful.

Use a REALLY fine sandpaper.  The higher the number the better; I would go 220, myself.  (Softball tossed....)
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: ReaperKK on August 24, 2020, 07:35:58 AM
Cool I'll give it a shot, I'll send the bill for my work to my father-in-law who put the rod up in the first palce
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Nick on August 24, 2020, 09:32:17 AM
On a separate subject - anyone have the unfortunate experience of dealing with moles?

I've got 6.02x10^23 problems, but moles aren't one of them.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: jingle.boy on August 24, 2020, 01:42:44 PM
On a separate subject - anyone have the unfortunate experience of dealing with moles?

I've got 6.02x10^23 problems, but moles aren't one of them.

Funny, I was just coming in here to say that I now have a mole problem. Caught one mofo literally as he was digging in my backyard, and watched a second slip under my fence. Mole traps around here aren’t easy to find, and amazon.ca has a shit selection.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: King Postwhore on August 24, 2020, 01:47:06 PM
I've got them. Holes everywhere in this spring and I could never find them.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: hunnus2000 on August 24, 2020, 03:14:17 PM
Well, I guess I will try traps next year or even this year. They say you have got to eliminate the food source (worms, grubs etc..) which is a good idea because we have red robins all over the place in the spring. They feed off the bugs and worms in the yard but they also shit all over the place (bastards!). They also say douse the yard with castor oil (or some shit like that) but where do you get enough of that junk in bulk? I've got a 10lb mini-pin that often eats grass and that's the last thing I need is for him to eat castor oil and puke all over the place.

Must kill moles! Must kill moles! Die moles die!!!!!  >:(
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Stadler on August 24, 2020, 03:32:24 PM
Karma kills, man.  I made that joke above and I was over at my wife's old house and front and back yards are just a MAZE of moles.   MF. 
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Phoenix87x on September 14, 2020, 05:49:24 AM
Anyone ever consider having an Epoxy seal done in the garage?

I enjoy tooling around in the garage, so I think I will look in to this when I buy a house. Here's a before and after of what it looks like:




(https://garagefloorsdfw.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/03/Before-Epoxy-Garage-Floor-Coating-1.jpg)
(https://37mgpg233jth1kxy6u2scmhu-wpengine.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/03/After-Epoxy-Garage-Floor-1.jpg)
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Podaar on September 14, 2020, 06:14:13 AM
I've seen it done a lot. I'm going to have mine done next summer after I do some renovations to the electrical and change out the cabinets in my garage. That particular floor looks like one of those professional installations where the epoxy is actually quite thick--almost an 1/8th of an inch. That would be tricky to do on your own. You'd need some pretty good ventilation and chemical mask protection.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Stadler on September 14, 2020, 07:27:34 AM
Ditto to all of that. 
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: gmillerdrake on September 14, 2020, 07:29:17 AM
There are some cool ways to resurface and finish concrete. I’ve seen it also to where it’s made to look like hardwood flooring. I’m sure it’s not cheap but it looks incredible. 
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Phoenix87x on September 14, 2020, 08:01:00 AM
In every house I lived at growing up, the garage was always dark and dingy looking. I think the epoxy makes it look sleek, clean and inviting. 
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Orbert on September 14, 2020, 08:41:43 AM
It looks great.  It makes it look like another room in the house, to the point where I'd feel weird driving my car in and parking on it.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: cramx3 on September 14, 2020, 08:44:20 AM
I really like that look and feel.  I remember a few friends growing up had those type of garages and I always liked them.  Felt cleaner too. 
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: lordxizor on September 14, 2020, 07:31:43 PM
Unless you're planning on hanging out in the garage, which plenty of people do, I don't really see the point. I'd rather spend my money sprucing up the areas I want to spend time in.

Our new flooring, trim and painting virtually every surface in the house is closer to done than just starting at this point. It's looking really nice. Wish we had done it years ago.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Grappler on September 14, 2020, 07:40:46 PM
Yeah, cars leak, or even just drip dry from rain and snow.  Garage floors get dirty.  No sense in having a pretty floor that's going to be constantly dirty.

I just noticed that one of my kids left the garden hose trickling for a few days.  It was raining a bunch and I had no need to go outside, but a few days prior, the rain let up and they played in the sprinkler while I was at the office.  Can't wait for the next water bill.   :censored

On a more positive note, I just put in a new storm door and it feels so good to have something new and not all banged up.  The old one had been on the house for a very, very long time.  I also don't have to swap out the screen and full glass panels anymore.  It's a split door, and the top of the glass pulls down with a hide-a-way screen. 
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: cramx3 on September 14, 2020, 07:41:57 PM
Unless you're planning on hanging out in the garage, which plenty of people do, I don't really see the point. I'd rather spend my money sprucing up the areas I want to spend time in.

Our new flooring, trim and painting virtually every surface in the house is closer to done than just starting at this point. It's looking really nice. Wish we had done it years ago.

Well yea, prioritize for sure.  I say this as someone who has a car port, not a garage :lol
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Stadler on September 15, 2020, 06:08:57 AM
I think it depends on what your needs are.   I've never had that at any of the houses I've owned (I think seven).   Having said that, I've gotten back into working on my cars.   I think all things being equal, I might consider it at this point.   My... uncle-in-law (is that a thing?  It's my father-in-law's brother) had it done, but he uses his garage as a car park but also as a sort of rec area as well.  He's got a dart board in there, one of those bowling games where you sprinkle the saw dust, and a TV.   
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Orbert on September 15, 2020, 07:33:33 AM
My... uncle-in-law (is that a thing?  It's my father-in-law's brother)

I've always figured you can make up whatever relationship is necessary for the situation, as long as you follow the established "rules" for such things.  Years ago, our neighbor Kevin was into model railroading, had a pretty nice layout, and we bonded a bit over that (plus our mutual love of prog music - he's the guy who took me to see Rush Counterparts at the Capital Center).  One time he showed me the latest issue of Model Railroader magazine, and it featured a big writeup on the new layout from one of the foremost guys in the hobby, Bruce Chubb.  I took a look at it, and said "Yeah, I've seen that."  The new magazine?  It just came out.  "No, I've seen the layout.  He invited us over for an operating session a couple of months ago."

Kevin just about lost his shit.  "You ran trains on this layout?  How do you know Bruce Chubb?"  I told him that Bruce is my step-uncle-in-law.  He's the brother of the guy that my wife's mom married.  She's a widow and he's a widower; it was the second marriage for each of them.  I'm pretty sure that "step-uncle-in-law" isn't used very often, but that's who is he is to me.

And since this falls loosely under "Benefits of Home Ownership", let me tell you a little bit about this layout.  Bruce and Janet built their new house specifically for the basement.  Well, they didn't build it themselves, but they had it built from Bruce's design.  He's an engineer (electrical, not the kind who drives trains, although he's done that, too).  The house is a single level, three-car garage at one end, kitchen, living room, dining room, library, Janet's craft room, probably some other rooms I'm forgetting, and bedrooms at the other end.  The house seemed to go on for acres.  And the entire basement below it, including under the garage, was the "train room" (https://model-railroad-hobbyist.com/magazine/mrh2019-10/sunset-valley).  It is mind-blowing.  Through custom circuitry of his own design, each operator is assigned a train, and the box they hold controls that train.  Throttle, brakes, horn.  My son drove a train for half an hour, through mountains and towns, and barely covered a fraction of the layout.  This was 25 years ago; that level of tech hadn't been invented yet.  Well, actually it had; Bruce is the guy who invented it.  He designed the circuit boards that people still use today.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Stadler on September 15, 2020, 10:04:42 AM
I LOVE model trains.   There's an annual exposition in Springfield at "The Big E" that is just model trains.  Four buildings with nothing but train layouts and vendors.  It's amazing.   There's even one built entirely out of Lego trains.

(The train people are an intense sort, though, and there's not a ton of humor; at one point I was watching this fantastic HO scale layout, and the guy even went so far as to spray graffiti on the side of the cars.   I noted that, and the realism generally, and the guy stopped the consist (that's what you call the entire length of the train) to show me some coal cars he had.  I said I liked the graffiti touch, and he said "thanks, but I'm especially proud of my loads".    I said "I bet you are!" and he looked at me like I had just taken a dump on his floor.)
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: The Walrus on September 15, 2020, 10:33:02 AM
I plan on buying my first home next year if everything goes well and the only thing that worries me is repairing stuff that goes wrong. And I'm talking like big repairs, what happens if my basement floods? If the roof starts leaking? (even though my friend, whose home I'll be buying, just got a new roof) Hell if the washer breaks I may as well buy a whole new washer because I am not a handyman, I can handle small things but that's it. I'm also naturally paranoid and anxious, so that doesn't help.

Looking forward to joining the homeowner club though eventually. The first thing I'm gonna do is put a piano in it :)
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Chino on September 15, 2020, 11:00:01 AM
I LOVE model trains.   There's an annual exposition in Springfield at "The Big E" that is just model trains.  Four buildings with nothing but train layouts and vendors.  It's amazing.   There's even one built entirely out of Lego trains.

(The train people are an intense sort, though, and there's not a ton of humor; at one point I was watching this fantastic HO scale layout, and the guy even went so far as to spray graffiti on the side of the cars.   I noted that, and the realism generally, and the guy stopped the consist (that's what you call the entire length of the train) to show me some coal cars he had.  I said I liked the graffiti touch, and he said "thanks, but I'm especially proud of my loads".    I said "I bet you are!" and he looked at me like I had just taken a dump on his floor.)

I'm redoing what was my hydroponics room in my basement and turning it into a proper hobby room. My printers will be down there along with all of my RC gear, and the plan is to have a behemoth of a work table that's 11'x5' (and outlets galore) so I can have multiple projects in flight at the same time without everything being on top of everything else. I've dug out my old n-scale stuff and bought a couple of new (heavily used) locomotives for testing purposes. I never did model railroading when I had my own money. I would do it as a kid and would have to wait for a birthday or Christmas money to buy stuff (or wait until dad needed something done that he didn't want to do). I'd love to build a proper layout now that I'm older. Nothing huge, maybe a 3'x5' if I can get a layout with the track that small. I'm more into the scenery and terrain building, and the trains are more of an afterthought, so I'm not going to get too hardcore with working yards and track changes. Most likely just a single loop with a tunnel and a bridge. I wish the Bachmann locomotives weren't such garbage. Their steam engines are some of the best looking in the business, but I've never had one that worked as intended.

There was a gentleman in one of my RC clubs years ago that was really into HO scale. He had a layout that spanned multiple rooms in his house. Each room basically had its own themed track, and the trains would run from room to room via tunnels through the walls. It was awesome. You'd be in one room and a train would roll in and not show up again for another 4 or 5 minutes. It was really cool.

When I bought my house I wanted to build a new layout, but didn't really have the time or space to commit to one. I had some leftover building kits that I had never put together and snagged a jewelry display case at a flea market for $10. It was a fun project.

(https://i.imgur.com/5ZAtRK5.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/2a4pk3g.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/iAikVqD.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/dBi4pkz.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/pX2S5N5.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/jDPKDj5.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/JgYPRXa.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/jsXVzfu.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/qDM1oxZ.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/tCjHeZm.jpg)
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Stadler on September 15, 2020, 11:05:54 AM
Normal feelings and fears. It's likely the biggest purchase that you'll ever make.  But having been down that path before, this is the one case that insurance is your friend.   It won't cover you if you don't keep up on your maintenance and repairs, and it won't cover you on things like washers/driers, but if something egregious happens, you have SOME protection. 

Just make sure that the $500 or whatever you spend on a home inspection is a good spend.  Someone reputable, someone with experience.   He/she will likely give you a list of 20 or 30 things, and you're going to think "what piece of shit did I agree to BUY?"  but in reality, that's not the point.  EVERY HOUSE, even new construction, has SOMETHING that can be done better/different.  But whether you get price relief on (or get the seller to fix) the big things, you now have a list of things to just keep an eye on.

I'm going through this now with my stepson and his wife; they are closing in a matter of days on their first home, and the inspection report was 25 pages long.  The wife was all "f--- this noise, we're bailing! This house sucks!"  We walked through, got the seller to take care of the three or four bigger items, and the rest are things to be taken care of piece meal over the next couple years.  Replacing outlets.  Regrading the back yard.   Stuff like that. 
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: hunnus2000 on September 15, 2020, 11:12:09 AM
^^^^^^^^
This

Also, around these parts, you can pick up a piano for free. Homeowners just want it out of their house.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Stadler on September 15, 2020, 11:15:00 AM
I LOVE model trains.   There's an annual exposition in Springfield at "The Big E" that is just model trains.  Four buildings with nothing but train layouts and vendors.  It's amazing.   There's even one built entirely out of Lego trains.

(The train people are an intense sort, though, and there's not a ton of humor; at one point I was watching this fantastic HO scale layout, and the guy even went so far as to spray graffiti on the side of the cars.   I noted that, and the realism generally, and the guy stopped the consist (that's what you call the entire length of the train) to show me some coal cars he had.  I said I liked the graffiti touch, and he said "thanks, but I'm especially proud of my loads".    I said "I bet you are!" and he looked at me like I had just taken a dump on his floor.)

I'm redoing what was my hydroponics room in my basement and turning it into a proper hobby room. My printers will be down there along with all of my RC gear, and the plan is to have a behemoth of a work table that's 11'x5' (and outlets galore) so I can have multiple projects in flight at the same time without everything being on top of everything else. I've dug out my old n-scale stuff and bought a couple of new (heavily used) locomotives for testing purposes. I never did model railroading when I had my own money. I would do it as a kid and would have to wait for a birthday or Christmas money to buy stuff (or wait until dad needed something done that he didn't want to do). I'd love to build a proper layout now that I'm older. Nothing huge, maybe a 3'x5' if I can get a layout with the track that small. I'm more into the scenery and terrain building, and the trains are more of an afterthought, so I'm not going to get too hardcore with working yards and track changes. Most likely just a single loop with a tunnel and a bridge. I wish the Bachmann locomotives weren't such garbage. Their steam engines are some of the best looking in the business, but I've never had one that worked as intended.

There was a gentleman in one of my RC clubs years ago that was really into HO scale. He had a layout that spanned multiple rooms in his house. Each room basically had its own themed track, and the trains would run from room to room via tunnels through the walls. It was awesome. You'd be in one room and a train would roll in and not show up again for another 4 or 5 minutes. It was really cool.

When I bought my house I wanted to build a new layout, but didn't really have the time or space to commit to one. I had some leftover building kits that I had never put together and snagged a jewelry display case at a flea market for $10. It was a fun project.

(https://i.imgur.com/5ZAtRK5.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/2a4pk3g.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/iAikVqD.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/dBi4pkz.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/pX2S5N5.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/jDPKDj5.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/JgYPRXa.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/jsXVzfu.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/qDM1oxZ.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/tCjHeZm.jpg)

Apparently that case is in the same league as Croc heelies.   ;)

On the Bachmann trains; my kid loves them (but he doesn't have a layout, he just likes the trains themselves, the detail and such) are the workings something that can easily be tuned?   Meaning, is it always the same thing, or is it a matter of shoddy materials/workmanship all around?
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Chino on September 15, 2020, 11:16:24 AM
Normal feelings and fears. It's likely the biggest purchase that you'll ever make.  But having been down that path before, this is the one case that insurance is your friend.   It won't cover you if you don't keep up on your maintenance and repairs, and it won't cover you on things like washers/driers, but if something egregious happens, you have SOME protection. 

Just make sure that the $500 or whatever you spend on a home inspection is a good spend.  Someone reputable, someone with experience.   He/she will likely give you a list of 20 or 30 things, and you're going to think "what piece of shit did I agree to BUY?"  but in reality, that's not the point.  EVERY HOUSE, even new construction, has SOMETHING that can be done better/different.  But whether you get price relief on (or get the seller to fix) the big things, you now have a list of things to just keep an eye on.

I'm going through this now with my stepson and his wife; they are closing in a matter of days on their first home, and the inspection report was 25 pages long.  The wife was all "f--- this noise, we're bailing! This house sucks!"  We walked through, got the seller to take care of the three or four bigger items, and the rest are things to be taken care of piece meal over the next couple years.  Replacing outlets.  Regrading the back yard.   Stuff like that.

My home inspection report cost $700 and was 66 colored pages when finished. Worth every penny IMO. He pointed out everything, not just potential issues. There were areas that I guess are points of common problems in a house and he made it a point to document and explain why that wasn't the case in the one I was buying. He took pictures of perfectly good stuff and noted things like "no evidence of termites, water, or mold along ______", or took multiple pictures of the old knob and tube wiring with a multi-meter connected to it showing it was no longer active. By the time I was all said and done, I was able to negotiate an additional $4k or so off my offer because of the inspection.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Chino on September 15, 2020, 11:19:14 AM
On the Bachmann trains; my kid loves them (but he doesn't have a layout, he just likes the trains themselves, the detail and such) are the workings something that can easily be tuned?   Meaning, is it always the same thing, or is it a matter of shoddy materials/workmanship all around?

In my experience, it either comes down to terrible solder jobs resulting broken connections, or wheels literally falling off of the locomotives. Two different models I had had issues with the wiring, and two different other models had the wheel problem. They're great display pieces, they just aren't great on the tracks.

I personally cannot solder on that scale. HO scale isn't too difficult, but N scale is a bitch.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Grappler on September 15, 2020, 11:22:33 AM
Normal feelings and fears. It's likely the biggest purchase that you'll ever make.  But having been down that path before, this is the one case that insurance is your friend.   It won't cover you if you don't keep up on your maintenance and repairs, and it won't cover you on things like washers/driers, but if something egregious happens, you have SOME protection. 

Keep in mind that insurance is for accidental damage only.  If a windstorm rips up your roof, or a tree crashes through your window, then you can file a claim.  If the roof is just 30 years old and leaks due to wear and tear, then insurance won't pay.  It's just like car insurance - you can't claim an oil leak that develops over time, but you can claim an accident that caused damage.

I was a first-time homebuyer 11 years ago and it took me a good year or two to get comfortable with home repairs.  Something would need a bit of repair and I'd have to figure out a way to handle it, and a call to my dad is still my first tactic if it's beyond me.  Some I can do myself, or with my dad or father in law, some I've hired others to fix for me.  You quickly learn that your home is your primary expense and asset, so cutting back on spending so you can save up money to have available in an emergency helps.

Youtube is also your friend - I'm always looking up stuff on youtube for a how-to video when something is broken or isn't working like it should.  Chances are, someone has already figured the answer out and you can replicate it yourself. 

Now that I've owned a home for 11 years, I'd advise people to pay attention to the location of the home in the same manner that they would the aesthetics.  Is it uphil or downhill?  Are the homes a few streets over higher or lower?  Drive by the home when it's raining to see if water flows down the street or if it flows towards the house.  My house is on a hill, so water runs away in 3 directions.  It's caused some issues with my yard, as dirt washes away, but my basement is 100% dry. 
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: hunnus2000 on September 15, 2020, 12:45:23 PM
When my wife and I bought our house in Dallas in 1999, one of the first things she said was 'pray for a really bad hail storm'. Sure enough, a couple of years later - we got one and a a new roof courtesy of insurance. Fast forward to 2017 and we got another hail storm and another new roof but one thing I learned is never get a 50 year roof as insurance will only pay to repair the damaged part of the roof whereas they will replace the entire 30 year roof. At least that was my experience and in Dallas, you can count on getting a new roof every 15 years or so. 
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: ReaperKK on September 18, 2020, 02:47:36 PM
Anyone ever consider having an Epoxy seal done in the garage?

I enjoy tooling around in the garage, so I think I will look in to this when I buy a house. Here's a before and after of what it looks like:




(https://garagefloorsdfw.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/03/Before-Epoxy-Garage-Floor-Coating-1.jpg)
(https://37mgpg233jth1kxy6u2scmhu-wpengine.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/03/After-Epoxy-Garage-Floor-1.jpg)

My buddies parents did this to their detached garage and it was awesome. Easy to clean and it was also heated so it was always warm to walk on in winter.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Phoenix87x on September 30, 2020, 08:02:29 AM
Anybody have any recommendations on the best thing to use to clean the bathtub/shower?

I've got hardwater and soap scum going on and have tried a couple things and didn't get much success. What do you guys use?
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Chino on September 30, 2020, 08:03:05 AM
Anybody have any recommendations on the best thing to use to clean the bathtub/shower?

I've got hardwater and soap scum going on and have tried a couple things and didn't get much success. What do you guys use?

Also interested in this. I haven't found anything that works. Maybe it's something in my water.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Podaar on September 30, 2020, 08:26:05 AM
CLR and a lot of scrubbing is the best I've found. Use good ventilation though. Shit is nasty.

That being said, once you get things clean I recommend a daily shower spray like this

(https://images.truevalue.com/getimage.asp?id=722234&ImageType=2&NoImageType=2&ColorImageSize=3&LineArtImageSize=3)

You just keep it in the shower and when your finished you lightly spray it on the wet surfaces and shower head. Once of prevention, etc.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Grappler on September 30, 2020, 08:51:32 AM
CLR has a tub/tile cleaner that works well.  For the last few years, I've used Mrs. Meyers' brand cleaning products, which are more all-natural.  They have a shower cleaner as well.   You can also use vinegar - that works incredibly well to cut through hard-water and scale build up. 
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Stadler on September 30, 2020, 09:17:24 AM
My wife has us using vinegar as well. 

I'd also recommend having a spray in the shower (or near) and using it frequently in between more formal cleanings.  The longer you go (even if it doesn't look bad) the harder it is.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: ReaperKK on October 03, 2020, 07:13:01 AM
Anybody have any recommendations on the best thing to use to clean the bathtub/shower?

I've got hardwater and soap scum going on and have tried a couple things and didn't get much success. What do you guys use?

Bar keepers friend with a magic eraser worked for me. We have diamond hard water at my house and hardwater stains are everywhere, this is the only thing I found that works.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Phoenix87x on October 08, 2020, 09:38:25 AM
Couldn't find the magic eraser in the store, but I did get some Barkeepers friend and so far its working pretty well. The first go around got half of the stuff up and then the 2nd go around got it looking pretty good all around, so I'm pretty happy.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: ReaperKK on October 10, 2020, 07:07:29 AM
nice :tup glad it's helping somewhat.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Chino on April 06, 2021, 09:59:11 AM
It's warming up outside and it looks like expensive season is just around the corner!

I scheduled two big projects today and both should be done in the next 3-6 weeks pending material availability.

1) One of my chimneys (the one over the furnace) is in bad shape. The original terracotta lining is crumbling in on itself and the top/cap disappeared in a storm a while back. They're going to be relining the chimney with stainless steel, doing some plumbing/duct work in the basement, and recapping it. Thankfully, the chimney for the fireplace seems to be in fine shape.

2) The roof. This one I'm pissed about a bit. I was going to do it last year along with my gutters, but I opted to do gutters only and instead get $8k worth of trees removed. Now, with the prices we're seeing everywhere, the roof without new gutters is still $2K more than the estimate last year with them  :tdwn. They're doing the shed too, and I'm going to double the size of the skylight in the finished attic. It needs to be replaced anyway. It's starting to leak.

Once those jobs are done, I really only have two projects left - Replacing the rear sill of the house and fixing my upstairs shower/office ceiling. Hopefully I can wrap them all up by the end of 2022. Owning a house was way easier when there were two incomes in it  :lol
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: cramx3 on April 06, 2021, 10:08:03 AM
I've got some home projects that I really need to work on as well.  Painting the living room, fixing a leak in my outdoor hose nozzle, and then power washing the house, fence, and shed.  These three things I've been putting off and it's really starting to become time for me to act on them, especially the power washing as the siding of my house is quite disgusting right now, but I need to fix the hose nozzle first....
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Chino on April 06, 2021, 10:54:25 AM
I've got some home projects that I really need to work on as well.  Painting the living room, fixing a leak in my outdoor hose nozzle, and then power washing the house, fence, and shed.  These three things I've been putting off and it's really starting to become time for me to act on them, especially the power washing as the siding of my house is quite disgusting right now, but I need to fix the hose nozzle first....

Shit. I forgot all about that. I need to do that too! I came home a couple months back and mine was blown off the house. Water was coming out at full pressure for who knows how many hours. It made a hell of an ice scene in my backyard. Pretty sure water froze in the pipe because I never turned it off at the end of fall, and the faucet broke off when it expanded inside the pipe.

My sister's BF is giving my power washer a once over. He's handy and the ICE on it isn't running properly. My house needs a cleaning so bad.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: gmillerdrake on April 06, 2021, 11:01:50 AM
We're about to undertake a nice little project as well. When we built 7 years ago we just had the basic contractor grade carpet installed because at the time our boys were 8,7 and 3 so we knew the carpet would get trashed no matter what with three boys growing up. We just said....lets get through it until they're a bit older and then we will replace it. Well, it's 7 years later and the carpet is well past the point of needing to be replaced.

But we're going to go with hardwood in lieu of carpet. The living room, my office, the formal dining room and foyer will be replaced with hardwood and we're going to re-paint our main floor as well all as a part of our 'Phase 1'. We're looking at new curtains and curtain rods.....I have a guy who is going to do the base board for us and crown molding also.

 'Phase 2' is replacing the carpet upstairs in the loft and bedrooms with carpet later this summer after we've got the kids rooms (and ours) in order which is going to be a massive overhaul in itself. The older two are now full blown teenagers and their rooms need to be decluttered of all the 'kid' stuff that's accumulated....need to get rid of the loft beds that they've outgrown and get them 'real' beds....it's just gonna be no fun at all  :lol  So we figured we should just start with the main floor and get that done then move on rather than try to do it all at once.



This is the hardwood we're going with, it's overlapping our kitchen tile so we could see how it looked. We liked the mixture of lighter tones with the darker, and it's 'real' 3/4" thick hardwood so it leaves us the option to be able to sand down and re-stain at a later date if we really wanted to. The planks come in lengths of anywhere from 7' to 18".



(https://i.imgur.com/PHAnpgR.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/2KTxDId.jpg)



Then, as a part of the project we wanted to change it up a bit with our traditional looking fireplace, so:


(https://i.imgur.com/EAdfwpI.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/mCupyyp.jpg)

I think once we re-paint and get the darker flooring in the new look of the fireplace will really fit in. We like how it turned out though. Took less than three hours to make the change.


Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: cramx3 on April 06, 2021, 11:23:50 AM
That hardwood looks really nice  :yarr

Pretty sure water froze in the pipe because I never turned it off at the end of fall, and the faucet broke off when it expanded inside the pipe. 

Yea, this was a home owner noob mistake I made, forgot to turn the water off for the hose.  Luckily, only the nozzle froze and now leaks when I turn the water on, none of the indoor piping froze or got damaged.  It still works just poorly and with a leak outdoors, but not well enough for a power washer to use it.  Because it works just enough, it's been something I haven't really bothered to fix but now I really need it.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: jingle.boy on April 06, 2021, 12:00:50 PM
Frozen pipes ain't no fun to fix.

Nice floors Gary... looks fairly similar to ours - though ours are already "distressed", so I never worry about the dog mucking them up, or dropping anything, or scraping them.  It's a real bonus.  Also, we went the engineered route - we had real hardwood in the last place.  Can't exactly remember why, just that the style we wanted was an engineered floor.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: gmillerdrake on April 06, 2021, 12:10:32 PM
we went the engineered route - we had real hardwood in the last place.  Can't exactly remember why, just that the style we wanted was an engineered floor.

Our second choice was engineered. The quality of engineered is as every bit as good as hardwood itself.....especially these days. We just ended up liking the look of this one a little bit more.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: kirksnosehair on April 06, 2021, 12:17:24 PM

I'll tell you what's really been blowing my mind lately is the rapidly rising value of our home.  We've been in this house for 8 years this coming August and its value has increased by nearly 50% which I find simultaneously exhilarating and worrisome.  Exhilarating because, holy shit, what an investment! :eek   Worrisome because, holy shit, what a bubble!

We've seen this movie before.  This is my second home.  My first one was a starter home that we purchased at a very, very high point in the market cycle, like we're at right now.  The house was WAY overpriced.  By probably 20% or more.  I don't know if anyone remembers but back around 2006 the housing bubble began to burst.  It REALLY dropped off in 2008 and as a result we were under water on our mortgage by almost $100k.  We never intended to stay in that house for more than about 5 years, but we ended up having no choice but to stay and keep paying down the mortgage until 2013 when we were finally able to GTFO and buy the house we're in now.

We are ABSOLUTELY in a housing bubble right now and it's going to crash and burn at some point.  We have no plans of selling this one anytime soon.  We consider it our "forever home" with "forever" really meaning until my mother dies.  That may not happen for another 10 or 15 years, she's only 77 and in reasonably good health. 
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Stadler on April 06, 2021, 12:24:42 PM
I've got some home projects that I really need to work on as well.  Painting the living room, fixing a leak in my outdoor hose nozzle, and then power washing the house, fence, and shed.  These three things I've been putting off and it's really starting to become time for me to act on them, especially the power washing as the siding of my house is quite disgusting right now, but I need to fix the hose nozzle first....

Shit. I forgot all about that. I need to do that too! I came home a couple months back and mine was blown off the house. Water was coming out at full pressure for who knows how many hours. It made a hell of an ice scene in my backyard. Pretty sure water froze in the pipe because I never turned it off at the end of fall, and the faucet broke off when it expanded inside the pipe.

My sister's BF is giving my power washer a once over. He's handy and the ICE on it isn't running properly. My house needs a cleaning so bad.

I did mine this past spring and it's a lot of work, but it's SO satisfying to see when it's done. 

I built my deck in the fall, so I'm pricing out the railings now (I kept them off because of snow; good thing I did!).   I did a fair amount of painting over the winter, so that's done.  I finished the last part of the last room this Sunday (I'm rather anal about that, so when I paint, if I haven't already, I change out the electric outlets and switches, with new covers; it's irrational but dirty faded electrical outlets bugs me).   These first couple of weekends I've also been burning in the back yard, all the piled up brush and stuff.  I finished it this past Friday (I had off) and I'm pretty psyched.  All that's left for me after the railings is a good inside clean; I won't tackle anything new since we're likely putting it on the market here in the late spring.

For the hoses, get the hose bibb with the frost proof device (https://www.amazon.com/Prier-P-164D12-Quarter-Turn-Anti-Siphon-Outdoor/dp/B0051966QW/ref=sr_1_7?dchild=1&keywords=frost+proof+hose+bibb&qid=1617733248&sr=8-7); they range from about $25 to about $45 (I just picked that one because I know Prier and it's got the best picture of it.)  Mine has that, and if it gets too cold, underneath that circular metal cap (which pops off) is a plastic and rubber 'disk' (which you can either reset or replace, depending).   Mine actually popped out twice this winter, which means I dodged TWO "Winter Classics" in my backyard!   You still should shut off your water, but if you forget or get a freak cold spell, this might save you!

(https://i.imgur.com/O37dAJN.jpg)
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: cramx3 on April 06, 2021, 12:32:59 PM
I'll have to look into that, thanks
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Stadler on April 06, 2021, 12:35:12 PM

I'll tell you what's really been blowing my mind lately is the rapidly rising value of our home.  We've been in this house for 8 years this coming August and its value has increased by nearly 50% which I find simultaneously exhilarating and worrisome.  Exhilarating because, holy shit, what an investment! :eek   Worrisome because, holy shit, what a bubble!

We've seen this movie before.  This is my second home.  My first one was a starter home that we purchased at a very, very high point in the market cycle, like we're at right now.  The house was WAY overpriced.  By probably 20% or more.  I don't know if anyone remembers but back around 2006 the housing bubble began to burst.  It REALLY dropped off in 2008 and as a result we were under water on our mortgage by almost $100k.  We never intended to stay in that house for more than about 5 years, but we ended up having no choice but to stay and keep paying down the mortgage until 2013 when we were finally able to GTFO and buy the house we're in now.

We are ABSOLUTELY in a housing bubble right now and it's going to crash and burn at some point.  We have no plans of selling this one anytime soon.  We consider it our "forever home" with "forever" really meaning until my mother dies.  That may not happen for another 10 or 15 years, she's only 77 and in reasonably good health. 

We DO have plans to sell.   And the market as it stands is going to burst, for sure, but this isn't 2007.  Where I am (northern CT, right near the Mass. border) the inventory is almost zero.  We're planning on moving two towns west of us (to be closer to fam, far better schools, and to allow my father-in-law to come live with us) and my wife checked: there is LITERALLY not one house that is for sale in that town under $700k that isn't under contingency.    Here's what happened: when COVID hit so bad in NYC, enterprising realtors here in northern CT starting listing their houses IN MANHATTAN.  We were getting an influx of money from the City, and people started paying exhorbitant prices.  But it's not just prices:  houses are going as-is (meaning, no renegotiation after inspection).  Some are going NO INSPECTION AT ALL.  Many are cash offers.  We looked at a house a couple weeks ago, and they listed on Thursday, and got six offers, three of them cash, all over asking price, by the end of the weekend.  As relatively undesirable as my town is, it's starting to bleed over and we're seeing it now too.

Here's my dilemma, as a businessman:  I KNOW I'm buying on the high end.  What I've got to look at is runway.   My house is maxed out; people are moving out of my town, they're closing schools (we had two high schools; they just consolidated them into one).   If get out at the premium I think I can (nowhere near 50% but still pretty, pretty good, if my agent is to be trusted) I will be selling at near top dollar.  The trick is to find a house in the new town that I'm overpaying for but which has more upside long term. 
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: gmillerdrake on April 06, 2021, 12:39:54 PM
]I'll tell you what's really been blowing my mind lately is the rapidly rising value of our home.

We are ABSOLUTELY in a housing bubble right now and it's going to crash and burn at some point.  We have no plans of selling this one anytime soon

Yeah....it's comical what the 'value' of our home is right now. It's certainly a sellers market and there's little doubt that this housing bubble is going to burst....question is 'when'?

We have no plans to sell anytime soon either. We're here until all the kids are at least graduated high school so that's a minimum 7 more years if we moved right when our youngest graduated which probably won't happen. So, we're looking 10-15 years from now. My brother in law criticized our choice in color of hardwood saying while that may be our taste it's limiting the resale to a specific buyer.....which, I 'get' his point but at the same time I really don't give a  :censored about who is going to like our choice in hardwoods in 15 years.  :lol  I'll cross that bridge when we get there.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: cramx3 on April 06, 2021, 12:41:21 PM
The zillow estimate on my tiny house is bonkers.  But as my sister told me over the weekend, "I can see you living the rest of your life there" and honestly, so can I. 
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Chino on April 06, 2021, 12:44:13 PM

I'll tell you what's really been blowing my mind lately is the rapidly rising value of our home.  We've been in this house for 8 years this coming August and its value has increased by nearly 50% which I find simultaneously exhilarating and worrisome.  Exhilarating because, holy shit, what an investment! :eek   Worrisome because, holy shit, what a bubble!

We've seen this movie before.  This is my second home.  My first one was a starter home that we purchased at a very, very high point in the market cycle, like we're at right now.  The house was WAY overpriced.  By probably 20% or more.  I don't know if anyone remembers but back around 2006 the housing bubble began to burst.  It REALLY dropped off in 2008 and as a result we were under water on our mortgage by almost $100k.  We never intended to stay in that house for more than about 5 years, but we ended up having no choice but to stay and keep paying down the mortgage until 2013 when we were finally able to GTFO and buy the house we're in now.

We are ABSOLUTELY in a housing bubble right now and it's going to crash and burn at some point.  We have no plans of selling this one anytime soon.  We consider it our "forever home" with "forever" really meaning until my mother dies.  That may not happen for another 10 or 15 years, she's only 77 and in reasonably good health. 

It's nuts.

My house is estimated at its highest value since it was built in 1927, roughly 40% more than I paid for it in October 2013, and $84K more than I currently owe on it.

Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: kirksnosehair on April 06, 2021, 12:47:33 PM
I don't think the bubble will begin bursting until interest rates begin to climb.  But I'm no real estate guy. 


I just checked on Zillow and yes, I realize it's not scientific in any way, but holy shit:



LAST 30 DAY CHANGE
+$28,778 (+5.3 %)



 :o   :eek   :o


According to Zillow my home's value has increased by almost $30k in 30 days.  What the actual fuck?  :rollin


Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Stadler on April 06, 2021, 12:48:21 PM
]I'll tell you what's really been blowing my mind lately is the rapidly rising value of our home.

We are ABSOLUTELY in a housing bubble right now and it's going to crash and burn at some point.  We have no plans of selling this one anytime soon

Yeah....it's comical what the 'value' of our home is right now. It's certainly a sellers market and there's little doubt that this housing bubble is going to burst....question is 'when'?

We have no plans to sell anytime soon either. We're here until all the kids are at least graduated high school so that's a minimum 7 more years if we moved right when our youngest graduated which probably won't happen. So, we're looking 10-15 years from now. My brother in law criticized our choice in color of hardwood saying while that may be our taste it's limiting the resale to a specific buyer.....which, I 'get' his point but at the same time I really don't give a  :censored about who is going to like our choice in hardwoods in 15 years.  :lol  I'll cross that bridge when we get there.

Short of the crazy stuff - orange walls (like my stepson has) or an odd material - it's crazy to try to guess.    If I'm looking at the right photo, that wood is nothing odd or out of the ordinary; for every person that hates it, there will be one that likes it.  And if you're 15 years out, you can guarantee it's going to look dated just by definition, so go with what makes you happy. 

See, we're right where you say you would have to be to move.  I've got a stepson that now has his own house, a kid, and one on the way, in that other town.  I've got a daughter that is in her second year of college and already said "I'm not living in CT when I get out."  I've got a stepdaughter who is on her own in NC.   My stepson is on the spectrum and needs more schooling that our current town can give him.  And I have a father-in-law that just retired and he lives 45 minutes from all of us and wants to be closer.   It's like the stars aligned.   Now if only the market will cooperate!  :)
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: kirksnosehair on April 06, 2021, 12:52:07 PM
]I'll tell you what's really been blowing my mind lately is the rapidly rising value of our home.

We are ABSOLUTELY in a housing bubble right now and it's going to crash and burn at some point.  We have no plans of selling this one anytime soon


Yeah....it's comical what the 'value' of our home is right now. It's certainly a sellers market and there's little doubt that this housing bubble is going to burst....question is 'when'?

We have no plans to sell anytime soon either. We're here until all the kids are at least graduated high school so that's a minimum 7 more years if we moved right when our youngest graduated which probably won't happen. So, we're looking 10-15 years from now. My brother in law criticized our choice in color of hardwood saying while that may be our taste it's limiting the resale to a specific buyer.....which, I 'get' his point but at the same time I really don't give a  :censored about who is going to like our choice in hardwoods in 15 years.  :lol  I'll cross that bridge when we get there.


Short of the crazy stuff - orange walls (like my stepson has) or an odd material - it's crazy to try to guess.    If I'm looking at the right photo, that wood is nothing odd or out of the ordinary; for every person that hates it, there will be one that likes it.  And if you're 15 years out, you can guarantee it's going to look dated just by definition, so go with what makes you happy. 

See, we're right where you say you would have to be to move.  I've got a stepson that now has his own house, a kid, and one on the way, in that other town.  I've got a daughter that is in her second year of college and already said "I'm not living in CT when I get out."  I've got a stepdaughter who is on her own in NC.   My stepson is on the spectrum and needs more schooling that our current town can give him.  And I have a father-in-law that just retired and he lives 45 minutes from all of us and wants to be closer.   It's like the stars aligned.   Now if only the market will cooperate!  :)


I have to agree with Stadler on this.  You make the home YOU want to live in NOW.  Not the home you THINK you MIGHT sell in 10 or 15 years.  As Stadler pointed out, for every person who doesn't like the hardwood floors you chose there will be at least 1 who DOES like it.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: jingle.boy on April 06, 2021, 01:00:20 PM
Housing prices are cray cray everywhere.  Sell high; buy high.

This is the last home I anticipate on buying for at least another 25-30 years.  Downsize when we don't want or can't maintain a house/property of this size is all I see in our future.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: kirksnosehair on April 06, 2021, 01:17:10 PM
Same for us.  In fact, once we sell this place we'll most likely be on Social Security and Medicare and retired so we'll be moving to Colorado and I doubt we'll be buying again when we're down to 10 or 15 years left in our entire lives.  But as I've posted elsewhere I never say "never" because circumstances can change in an instant.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: gmillerdrake on April 06, 2021, 03:00:24 PM
]I'll tell you what's really been blowing my mind lately is the rapidly rising value of our home.

We are ABSOLUTELY in a housing bubble right now and it's going to crash and burn at some point.  We have no plans of selling this one anytime soon


Yeah....it's comical what the 'value' of our home is right now. It's certainly a sellers market and there's little doubt that this housing bubble is going to burst....question is 'when'?

We have no plans to sell anytime soon either. We're here until all the kids are at least graduated high school so that's a minimum 7 more years if we moved right when our youngest graduated which probably won't happen. So, we're looking 10-15 years from now. My brother in law criticized our choice in color of hardwood saying while that may be our taste it's limiting the resale to a specific buyer.....which, I 'get' his point but at the same time I really don't give a  :censored about who is going to like our choice in hardwoods in 15 years.  :lol  I'll cross that bridge when we get there.


Short of the crazy stuff - orange walls (like my stepson has) or an odd material - it's crazy to try to guess.    If I'm looking at the right photo, that wood is nothing odd or out of the ordinary; for every person that hates it, there will be one that likes it.  And if you're 15 years out, you can guarantee it's going to look dated just by definition, so go with what makes you happy. 

See, we're right where you say you would have to be to move.  I've got a stepson that now has his own house, a kid, and one on the way, in that other town.  I've got a daughter that is in her second year of college and already said "I'm not living in CT when I get out."  I've got a stepdaughter who is on her own in NC.   My stepson is on the spectrum and needs more schooling that our current town can give him.  And I have a father-in-law that just retired and he lives 45 minutes from all of us and wants to be closer.   It's like the stars aligned.   Now if only the market will cooperate!  :)


I have to agree with Stadler on this.  You make the home YOU want to live in NOW.  Not the home you THINK you MIGHT sell in 10 or 15 years.  As Stadler pointed out, for every person who doesn't like the hardwood floors you chose there will be at least 1 who DOES like it.

Yeah....that's the approach we're taking. For anyone who's paid attention to the times I've mentioned this particular brother in law.....it's on par for him to inject something like that into a conversation.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: orcus116 on April 06, 2021, 05:08:06 PM
I don't think the bubble will begin bursting until interest rates begin to climb.  But I'm no real estate guy. 


I just checked on Zillow and yes, I realize it's not scientific in any way, but holy shit:



LAST 30 DAY CHANGE
+$28,778 (+5.3 %)



 :o   :eek   :o


According to Zillow my home's value has increased by almost $30k in 30 days.  What the actual fuck?  :rollin

Same with me to an extent although the "suburb of New York City" market I'm in is starting to dip down a little bit. I ended up getting a great deal on my house since I bought it from my parents as they moved down to Myrtle Beach and they were only looking to cover their mortgage down there so Zillow's value is about $55-60K more than I bought it. I just find it amusing to check in on every once in awhile.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Cool Chris on April 06, 2021, 09:06:18 PM
Once those jobs are done, I really only have two projects left...

C'mon Chino, any homeowner knows you are never truly done. There will always be more projects :-)

Whomever referenced the increased cost of repair/remodeling, as that is the source of my employment, I can vouch for the fact that materials are becoming noticeably more costly. The price of lumber is up something around 180%.

Also, regarding flooring, the last three houses where we replaced the floor we used Lifeproof vinyl plank flooring. I really like the look of it, and would consider it in my home should I ever want to replace our hardwoods.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: ReaperKK on April 07, 2021, 06:17:12 AM
Housing prices are cray cray everywhere.  Sell high; buy high.

Same here, our house went up in value almost $100k in a matter of 4 years. My wife keeps looking at places for us to move to however prices have risen everywhere, not just our neighborhood :lol
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: ReaperKK on April 07, 2021, 06:17:46 AM
Once those jobs are done, I really only have two projects left...

C'mon Chino, any homeowner knows you are never truly done. There will always be more projects :-)

This is 100% the truth, if I was single I'd be living in a condo/townhouse.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Podaar on April 07, 2021, 06:24:08 AM
Whomever referenced the increased cost of repair/remodeling, as that is the source of my employment, I can vouch for the fact that materials are becoming noticeably more costly. The price of lumber is up something around 180%.

I can attest to this. We're in the middle of a pretty large remodel right now. I can't believe how little lumber I got for $1000.  >:(

Also, regarding flooring, the last three houses where we replaced the floor we used Lifeproof vinyl plank flooring. I really like the look of it, and would consider it in my home should I ever want to replace our hardwoods.

I just had a pallet of Cali Bamboo (https://www.calibamboo.com/product-mocha-best-engineered-hardwood-flooring-7014006501.html) delivered. I've put this product in two other rooms in my home and love it. It's harder than the back of your head and looks beautiful. I can't wait to get to the stage where we're actually laying flooring... still a long way to go yet.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Snow Dog on April 07, 2021, 01:21:50 PM
I'll agree with the housing market being nuts and definitely bubbling.  I bought my first home in 2012 at the near bottom of the market.  My wife and I lived there until beginning of last year, and when we sold that house and moved into this one, the selling price had increased 80% over what I bought it for eight years prior.  That's nuts to me, but we were able to take advantage of that profit to get into the home we're in now.

The problem we're seeing around here though is that there's a lot of people who can't afford to live here now.  There's more homeless people and camps than I've ever seen in the 13 years that I've lived here.  Homes sell in less than a few days, rent prices are crazy, and housing availability in general is basically nonexistent unless you get lucky.  The fires that swept through the valley last year and displaced thousands of people (much of whom are low income and didn't have homeowner's/renter's insurance) have also added to the difficulty.  A patient of mine has also said that the price of building materials has essentially doubled or more, and they still can't keep their shelves stocked with lumber.  It also makes for a situation of higher prices, but there's not enough income around here to sustain that.


C'mon Chino, any homeowner knows you are never truly done. There will always be more projects :-)


I'll attest to this as well.  I swear I've done more projects in the one year I've lived in this house than I ever did in the eight that I owned my old one.  And once that list of projects is done, I'm sure my wife will happily find more for me.  Haha
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: kirksnosehair on April 08, 2021, 01:55:02 PM
When I loved into my neighborhood in 2013 the average home on my block was selling for about $369,000


That same block 8 years later the average home price is $540,000


If you wonder why people who sell real estate are mostly very well off, this is why. 


One sale and they're raking in $20k to 30k or more



Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: lordxizor on April 16, 2021, 04:59:58 AM
We need some additional space and are thinking of finishing our basement to add about 700 square feet, including another bedroom and bathroom. We've gotten a couple of quotes and they're higher than I was hoping for. We've debated moving as well, but there's basically nothing around that meets our needs in our budget. I was hoping to do some of the work ourselves, but after really digging into it, basically beyond framing, we'd have to hire almost all of the rest of it out. I really don't want to take out a loan, but that's the only way we could afford to pay someone to do all of it. Life is expensive sometimes.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: hunnus2000 on April 16, 2021, 07:23:32 AM
From my understanding, building supplies are in short supply and the pricing has skyrocketed. That could be the reason for the high construction price.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Snow Dog on April 16, 2021, 07:47:39 AM
From my understanding, building supplies are in short supply and the pricing has skyrocketed. That could be the reason for the high construction price.

Exactly this. Just a month ago, I had to build a small platform frame to support my kid’s crib mattress so I could lower it to the floor and keep him from climbing out. Two ten foot 2x4s cost me a little over $20.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: lordxizor on April 16, 2021, 07:54:17 AM
From my understanding, building supplies are in short supply and the pricing has skyrocketed. That could be the reason for the high construction price.
Yeah, that doesn't help, but I think the bulk of the cost that I was quoted is labor. I did a rough estimate on the cost of 2x4s that I would need and it's around $2k. Drywall, wiring, and carpet isn't all going to add up to $75k. Skilled labor is expensive.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: romdrums on April 16, 2021, 08:08:46 AM
Our next project is new windows for the house, along with hopefully fixing the electricity in our living room.  For some reason, the circuit breaker keeps tripping in the living room.  We had electricians come out to fix the problem a few weeks ago, and then it started happening again.  The electrical work in our house is nuts, especially in the living room.  It feels like the previous owners did some "upgrades" that ended up screwing everything up.  For instance, there was a light switch on one of the walls that actually controlled all of the outlets in the room, so if you accidentally hit it, it turned everything off: the TV, the PS4, and all of the lights.  There are two other dead switches that don't do anything.  Dead outlets, etc.  Plus, all of the outside outlets on the front of the house are dead as well.  When we run Christmas decorations, we have to do it off of an extension cord running from the back of the house.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: gmillerdrake on April 16, 2021, 09:12:47 AM
new windows for the house,

Man....we need these as well but it just never ends. Even with us putting in this hardwood....we now need to look into new area rugs for three rooms and one for our foyer.....I'm near done with re-painting our main level which was a few hundred bucks for paint and materials.....our furniture is over 15 years old and has endured three boys growing up on it so we're in 'need' of new furniture.....the list can go on and on.

We did good with the initial cost of the flooring replacement. We came in $830 over budget and that was because I had the guy change our base boards from 4-1/4" high to 5-1/4" high....it was a much neater looking profile and they look slick. We knew there would be some additional $$$ to be spent on misc. items but it seems we may have underestimated what we thought was necessary and what we really want  :lol 
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Podaar on April 16, 2021, 09:29:31 AM
Romdroms,

I've spent 20 years slowly replacing all the bad electrical wiring by the previous owner(s). My home was originally built in 1967 and has three previous owners. The original wiring was black fiber wrapped 12 gage Romex.

The second owner (late 70s to early 80's) enclosed the carport a home day care business attached to their house. They definitely knew very little about code and had crazy ideas about construction and wiring. They would use almost anything they could find. I've found 10, 12, and 14 gage Romex (these are 20 amp circuits) and sometimes three wire cable (BWR) with no ground.

The third owner (late 80's to Mid 90's) was an idiot who considered himself a construction wizard. He extended the front of the house to enclose the porch and expanded the "day care" area and incorporated it into the overall living space of the house. The numerous things he did wrong (not to mention his lack of style) are probably for another post but the biggest hurdle has been that the entire main floor he sheeted all the walls in 1/2" OSB before covering them in drywall (at today's lumber prices, can you imagine what that would cost?). This makes it nearly impossible to trace electrical issues or moving fixtures because of the difficulty of cutting through both drywall and chipboard. When my wife brought up remodeling the main floor last Fall, I said okay, but if we do, I'm unsheathing every wall and cleaning up the electrical. She reluctantly agreed.

I've found no less than six J boxes (uncovered) buried in the walls and I'm only halfway through! Keep in mind, that my home being built in the '60's has a pretty decent crawl space under all this that makes it a wiz to run a new line if. But no, it appears if he wanted to put an outlet in a different location, he would just run a line from the old box to the new one and then bury the old under OSB and sheetrock. One wall had no ground connected to the last two outlets on the circuit because (it appears) he ran out of three wire Romex and just grabbed some white and black solid 14 gage wire (did I mention that these are 20 amp circuits?). Just yesterday, I discovered that one entire circuit was wired to the load connection of a GFCI outlet in the kitchen. If you press the test button the ceiling light in the dining room would go out but the outlet it was supposed to be protecting (2 feet away) was still live.  :lol

Anyway, I feel your pain with the problems in your living room. Best of luck!
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Dublagent66 on April 16, 2021, 10:28:37 AM
I bought my house in Feb 2017 for $220k.  Now it's worth $333k.  Not a bad chunk of equity in 4 years since I only owe $160k.  Yeah, it's a sellers market right now, but I ain't going anywhere.  Refinanced last year at 3.0% (down from 4.62% when I bought it).  It's all a part of AAgent66's early retirement plan at age 60 (5 years).
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: romdrums on April 16, 2021, 03:04:06 PM
@Podaar, I think the previous owners had a multi-generational home going on, and the homeowner's dad considered himself "handy".  They painted all of the wood trim white, in fact they painted the whole house white (except the kitchen cabinets, and the downstairs bathroom, which they painted hot pink!), but they didn't use any primer or painter's tape, so there's paint splotches on the bathroom tile, door handles, etc.  We had to repaint the whole house before we moved in, but you can see all of his shoddy "handy work" on door hinges and things like that.  The previous owner was really proud of his work, too, going out of her way to mention that her dad did all of the "improvements" when we did the close.  She even asked us if we liked it!  I think the living room was re-wired to accommodate a home office and a decorative fire place.  Weird stuff!  With the windows, there's like 4 different styles of windows in the house, and some of the wooden frames have rotted.  We bought the house five years ago, and we've replaced the furnace and the A/C, and we got a new roof last fall.  It was in better shape than most of the houses we ended up looking at back when we were house hunting.  Lots of the older houses in our area had foundation cracks, which was really surprising. 
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Stadler on April 17, 2021, 10:45:00 AM
I'm a stickler for that kind of stuff.  I've already said that when I paint a room (the first time), I change out all the outlets and switches, putting new ones in.   It looks better, and it helps me understand the fuse boxes (in my humble experience, the handwritten labels for each circuit breaker might as well be a jumble puzzle for all the accuracy - or lack thereof - that I've found over the years).   I will also do the faucets sometimes (I did the kitchen and two out of the three bathrooms in my current house) and the door hinges.  It's a lot of work, and it can cost you, but the look is undeniable.

Now that we're considering moving again, I've sort of reconciled that I will be doing it all over again.   Since this is original owner territory, I'm hoping the effort is a little less - at least with regards to tracing out the circuit breakers and the plumbing.

As for materials, they ARE more expensive, but I agree with Lordxizor; it's not all of it.   I just finished this myself, and I think materials were between $2500 and $3000.   I had one quote that was for $10k to do the same work:

(https://i.imgur.com/iSoJVXT.jpg)(https://i.imgur.com/RTdQDBT.jpg)
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Cool Chris on April 17, 2021, 01:07:39 PM
Being in the industry, a couple comments:

My boss's phone is ringing off the hook. We have hired two laborers in the past couple weeks, and he is either turning down jobs, or booking people well in to the summer. I am at home improvement/lumber yards sometimes multiple times a day, and they are always packed. Both with homeowners and contractors, though I couldn't say what the ratio is.

Re: electrical. Few things frustrate the crew more than tearing open walls and seeing poor, homeowner-quality electrical work that they have to spend hours trying to figure out and remedying.

And what the hell??

... the biggest hurdle has been that the entire main floor he sheeted all the walls in 1/2" OSB before covering them in drywall
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Super Dude on April 18, 2021, 06:25:47 AM
I haven't read any of the rest of the thread, but the benefit is equity. If you can afford mortgage payments long enough to hold onto a starter house for about 10-15 years, it'll be a huge help to you on house #2. The more you pay into house #1, the lower you can make your mortgage payments on #2, especially if you've done improvements on #1 so that you can sell it at a profit.

All of this assumes a pretty decent and stable income though, be warned. I know a lot of people can't afford to do what I'm describing.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: lordxizor on April 18, 2021, 07:01:30 AM
I haven't read any of the rest of the thread, but the benefit is equity. If you can afford mortgage payments long enough to hold onto a starter house for about 10-15 years, it'll be a huge help to you on house #2. The more you pay into house #1, the lower you can make your mortgage payments on #2, especially if you've done improvements on #1 so that you can sell it at a profit.

All of this assumes a pretty decent and stable income though, be warned. I know a lot of people can't afford to do what I'm describing.
That's not as sure a thing as you make it sound, but yes, ideally that's the advantage of owning. Add in maintenance costs, upgrades, insurance, etc, and owning a home is not the right choice for everyone. But for many people it's really the only way they manage to gain any wealth, if they don't keep cashing out their equity.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Super Dude on April 18, 2021, 07:39:03 AM
I haven't read any of the rest of the thread, but the benefit is equity. If you can afford mortgage payments long enough to hold onto a starter house for about 10-15 years, it'll be a huge help to you on house #2. The more you pay into house #1, the lower you can make your mortgage payments on #2, especially if you've done improvements on #1 so that you can sell it at a profit.

All of this assumes a pretty decent and stable income though, be warned. I know a lot of people can't afford to do what I'm describing.
That's not as sure a thing as you make it sound, but yes, ideally that's the advantage of owning. Add in maintenance costs, upgrades, insurance, etc, and owning a home is not the right choice for everyone. But for many people it's really the only way they manage to gain any wealth, if they don't keep cashing out their equity.

Oh yeah, by no means, hence my little disclaimer at the end. Insurance is one less thing I worry about though, since I have rolled it into my mortgage payments.

But yeah, this shit is expensive as balls. It more than pays for itself if you're able to hold on long enough, but the holding on part is definitely hard.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Orbert on April 18, 2021, 08:39:20 AM
I am now a true homeowner, meaning I just paid it off and own the house free and clear.  I came into some money earlier this year, and once everything cleared the bank, I paid off the mortgage eight years early.

To be honest, I expected a little more fanfare or something.  On the website for the mortgage company it shows a zero balance and a record of my payment, but also shows that my next regular payment is due on May 1.  So I called and talked to a customer service person, and she verified that the loan is completely paid off, and their website just has this glitch where it never clears the "next payment due".  She mused that I could log in three years from now and it will still show my next payment due on May 1, 2021.  But I'll be getting my payoff letter and package in the mail.

The other day FedEx delivered an envelope from them, my payoff package.  Inside was a single sheet of paper, basically an ad for them.  "We hate goodbyes" but call us for any of your future mortgage needs, etc.  Big bold letters saying "Call us at 1-800-bla-blah to see what we can offer you."  It did say that they recently received my payoff and hate to see me go.  I was expecting some kind of confirmation that I'm free and clear, and I thought that since it's mine now, don't I get the title to put in my safe box?  Some kind of document saying that the house is mine?  I feel like there should be more, but I've never done this before, so maybe my mind had created this entire scenario.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: gmillerdrake on April 18, 2021, 09:41:25 AM
I think I've shared this story in this thread before but, a really good purchase by my wife before we met put us in a great spot as far as equity that still continues to this day. The first house she bought was in a really nice neighborhood in the city of St. Louis, and it was one of only a few city houses that had a private carport/garage behind the home. She bought it for $92k in 2002.

We met in 2003....engaged in 2004....married in 2005. Right before we got married she sold her city home (at the height of the crazy housing market then....and right before the crash in 08') for $136k. We were able to use that equity to buy a nice starter home....which, when we sold that in 2013 due to the market then we 'only' sold it for $5k above our purchase price but we still had all that equity.

With our home now, it's insane the equity we have even before these recent inflated estimates. That's one of the reasons we considered selling a couple years ago. We were told what our house would list at and our jaws hit the ground so we tried to sell real quick and see if we could bank some $$$. I'm glad we didn't. Anyway, a great purchase by her 20 years ago really did wonders for us.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: jingle.boy on April 18, 2021, 09:49:35 AM
I am now a true homeowner, meaning I just paid it off and own the house free and clear.  I came into some money earlier this year, and once everything cleared the bank, I paid off the mortgage eight years early.

Fuckin eh man!!!  :hifive:  That's an awesome feeling.  I know what you mean about the fanfare.  I basically got nothing.  I printed off something myself that showed the balance on my loan to be $0, and was going to have a 'mortgage burning' party or something, but it just never worked out.  Not having a mortgage payment every two weeks has been glori-fucking-ous!
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Super Dude on April 18, 2021, 10:57:40 AM
I am now a true homeowner, meaning I just paid it off and own the house free and clear.  I came into some money earlier this year, and once everything cleared the bank, I paid off the mortgage eight years early.

To be honest, I expected a little more fanfare or something.  On the website for the mortgage company it shows a zero balance and a record of my payment, but also shows that my next regular payment is due on May 1.  So I called and talked to a customer service person, and she verified that the loan is completely paid off, and their website just has this glitch where it never clears the "next payment due".  She mused that I could log in three years from now and it will still show my next payment due on May 1, 2021.  But I'll be getting my payoff letter and package in the mail.

The other day FedEx delivered an envelope from them, my payoff package.  Inside was a single sheet of paper, basically an ad for them.  "We hate goodbyes" but call us for any of your future mortgage needs, etc.  Big bold letters saying "Call us at 1-800-bla-blah to see what we can offer you."  It did say that they recently received my payoff and hate to see me go.  I was expecting some kind of confirmation that I'm free and clear, and I thought that since it's mine now, don't I get the title to put in my safe box?  Some kind of document saying that the house is mine?  I feel like there should be more, but I've never done this before, so maybe my mind had created this entire scenario.

Good for you, mang. I'm trying to do like insanity-level payments over the next year, which is supposed to help me pay off completely by 2028. I'm not going to do that, I'm planning to be out of this house long before then, but as I said, I'm hoping it'll help me immensely in paying down house #2.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: gmillerdrake on April 18, 2021, 11:35:49 AM
I am now a true homeowner, meaning I just paid it off and own the house free and clear.  I came into some money earlier this year, and once everything cleared the bank, I paid off the mortgage eight years early.

That truly is awesome. It feels like I may never see that day  :lol  But, we did refinance a few months back and the rate we locked in at changed our payment to where we 'save' $514 a month. All I've done is not alter what I was originally paying and am just putting $500 a month towards principle. It'll be nice to see that principle start to whittle down quicker over the years by doing that.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Grappler on April 19, 2021, 07:06:36 AM
I hate the term "starter home," and the common expectation that you're supposed to sell your home and keep moving on to bigger and bigger houses.  My parents have stayed in their 1,600 square foot home for the last 44 years.  They considered moving once when we were younger and chose not to.  I've been in my house, which is a little smaller than theirs, for 12 years, and a year ago we learned that we wouldn't make much money on a sale, so moving didn't make sense.  We keep making improvements to our home and changing things when we can.  There's nothing wrong with staying put.

I'd love a bigger house with more space for my kids.  But it doesn't work financially for us - my wife would have to go back to work full time and my young kids would be in daycare/school for 12 hours every day.  That's not much of a life for them, just for us to feel like we're moving up.

Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Podaar on April 19, 2021, 08:19:12 AM
I am now a true homeowner, meaning I just paid it off and own the house free and clear.  I came into some money earlier this year, and once everything cleared the bank, I paid off the mortgage eight years early.

To be honest, I expected a little more fanfare or something.  On the website for the mortgage company it shows a zero balance and a record of my payment, but also shows that my next regular payment is due on May 1.  So I called and talked to a customer service person, and she verified that the loan is completely paid off, and their website just has this glitch where it never clears the "next payment due".  She mused that I could log in three years from now and it will still show my next payment due on May 1, 2021.  But I'll be getting my payoff letter and package in the mail.

The other day FedEx delivered an envelope from them, my payoff package.  Inside was a single sheet of paper, basically an ad for them.  "We hate goodbyes" but call us for any of your future mortgage needs, etc.  Big bold letters saying "Call us at 1-800-bla-blah to see what we can offer you."  It did say that they recently received my payoff and hate to see me go.  I was expecting some kind of confirmation that I'm free and clear, and I thought that since it's mine now, don't I get the title to put in my safe box?  Some kind of document saying that the house is mine?  I feel like there should be more, but I've never done this before, so maybe my mind had created this entire scenario.

That's awesome, Orbert! It's a good feeling.

I don't know if your experience will be like ours, but the title company sent us our title/deed a few months after the fact. It's currently sitting quietly in our safety deposit box.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: cramx3 on April 19, 2021, 08:25:22 AM
I hate the term "starter home," and the common expectation that you're supposed to sell your home and keep moving on to bigger and bigger houses.  My parents have stayed in their 1,600 square foot home for the last 44 years.  They considered moving once when we were younger and chose not to.  I've been in my house, which is a little smaller than theirs, for 12 years, and a year ago we learned that we wouldn't make much money on a sale, so moving didn't make sense.  We keep making improvements to our home and changing things when we can.  There's nothing wrong with staying put.

I'd love a bigger house with more space for my kids.  But it doesn't work financially for us - my wife would have to go back to work full time and my young kids would be in daycare/school for 12 hours every day.  That's not much of a life for them, just for us to feel like we're moving up.

The term makes sense for people who can't afford what they truly want/need as their family grows.  But for many, your first home doesn't need to be a "starter" home.  I don't see myself leaving my house anytime soon.  8 years in and I could see myself being there forever.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Skeever on April 19, 2021, 08:44:38 AM
I haven't read any of the rest of the thread, but the benefit is equity. If you can afford mortgage payments long enough to hold onto a starter house for about 10-15 years, it'll be a huge help to you on house #2. The more you pay into house #1, the lower you can make your mortgage payments on #2, especially if you've done improvements on #1 so that you can sell it at a profit.

All of this assumes a pretty decent and stable income though, be warned. I know a lot of people can't afford to do what I'm describing.

Never liked that argument when I started this thread, because you know what increasing in value way more than the value of my home? The S&P500. Now, that's an assumption that might be getting tested a little bit in the future, though. But given that it generally seems to be true, why not funnel all the home costs into an investment account? The odds of the market taking and your property value tanking don't seem to be that different - heck, last time they both happened at he same time. 

Also I'm dubious over what people consider to be "improvements". Those granite countertops and stainless steel appliances might look tacky in 10 years when you go to sell. Maybe that pool you put in is a liability for someone else. And so on.

Ultimately, I did decide to buy, because 1.) there were several homes in my area that I could live in for around the same monthly cost as renting, 2.) I didn't plan on moving for 5-10 years, and 3.) I could get way more space this way.

I'd say it's working out, though it's had its ups and downs. In terms of financial gain, I do have a bit of equity, but I also opened a 401k 5 years ago and the modest investments I've put into that make it a far larger asset for me than the equity I have in my home. Had I stayed renting and doubled the amount I put into investments, I'd probably be looking at biggest houses today. But I can honestly say that I've enjoyed living in a house, in general my quality of life has been much better than when I was renting 5+ years ago.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Podaar on April 19, 2021, 08:47:36 AM
So, I bought a rotary hammer this weekend.

Our home has a crapload of ugly, pale-blue, tile. Part of our current renovation is to remove said tile from the floor where our planned parlor (great-room in modern parlance) will be--basically a sitting space off the kitchen with a big screen TV. The plan is to replace it with bamboo flooring as mentioned earlier in this thread. Saturday morning it was time to get a few rows off the floor to make room for drywalling so that we aren't doing demolition near fresh walls. I figured that the previous owner had put Hardie backer board over the subfloor and then used thinset on top of that to set the tile. But, no! The stupid bastard smeared thin set over the subfloor, laid a layer of fiber mesh and then covered the mesh with a half-inch layer of shower base (I forget what that's called, but it's very much like sanded grout). Then when that dried he used mastic to adhere the tile to that layer.

My original plan, was to cut the grout a few rows from the wall (messy job with an abrasive blade on the circular saw even with dust extraction), get a pry bar under the Hardie board, pry it up enough to get wedges set across a wide section, and the just drive them evenly across. Fail. The effort, noise and mess left behind was just too much. It took us a few hours to remove maybe six tiles and a crapload of thin set was being left behind. We figured there must be a better way, so we watched YouTube videos and the consensus seemed to be we needed a rotary hammer with a thinset removal chisel bit. Looking at the tool rental pages at the box stores, it looked like we'd be spending a minimum of $40 per day, or about $300 for a week.

Mrs. P suggested we go to Harbor Freight and get a cheap one to do the job, but I noticed there were higher powered, better reviewed models at Jeff's Place. So I ordered this one (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07WR99CMM?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2_dt_b_product_details) and it arrived yesterday afternoon. I never imagined, as a homeowner, I'd need a rotary hammer but this sucker works like a charm. It removed a dozen tiles in just a few minutes. On the lower setting, using this chisel (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07WK2JNS5?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2_dt_b_product_details), it will remove the crap from the subfloor pretty smoothly.

If ya'll need to drill a big ass hole in concrete, you're welcome to borrow this!  :)
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Orbert on April 19, 2021, 08:56:42 AM
I am now a true homeowner, meaning I just paid it off and own the house free and clear.  I came into some money earlier this year, and once everything cleared the bank, I paid off the mortgage eight years early.

To be honest, I expected a little more fanfare or something.  On the website for the mortgage company it shows a zero balance and a record of my payment, but also shows that my next regular payment is due on May 1.  So I called and talked to a customer service person, and she verified that the loan is completely paid off, and their website just has this glitch where it never clears the "next payment due".  She mused that I could log in three years from now and it will still show my next payment due on May 1, 2021.  But I'll be getting my payoff letter and package in the mail.

The other day FedEx delivered an envelope from them, my payoff package.  Inside was a single sheet of paper, basically an ad for them.  "We hate goodbyes" but call us for any of your future mortgage needs, etc.  Big bold letters saying "Call us at 1-800-bla-blah to see what we can offer you."  It did say that they recently received my payoff and hate to see me go.  I was expecting some kind of confirmation that I'm free and clear, and I thought that since it's mine now, don't I get the title to put in my safe box?  Some kind of document saying that the house is mine?  I feel like there should be more, but I've never done this before, so maybe my mind had created this entire scenario.

That's awesome, Orbert! It's a good feeling.

I don't know if your experience will be like ours, but the title company sent us our title/deed a few months after the fact. It's currently sitting quietly in our safety deposit box.

Bold mine.  That's what was confusing/disappointing, I guess.  I was expecting the "package" to include the title/deed and some kind of statement that it is now mine, free and clear.  Something to make it official.  Instead, it was just a form letter from the mortgage company saying I'd paid them off.

It makes sense that the title company would handle the transfer of title.  I hadn't thought of that.  And of course it's not really a huge priority for them, so getting it a couple months later also makes perfect sense.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: lordxizor on April 19, 2021, 08:57:24 AM
I haven't read any of the rest of the thread, but the benefit is equity. If you can afford mortgage payments long enough to hold onto a starter house for about 10-15 years, it'll be a huge help to you on house #2. The more you pay into house #1, the lower you can make your mortgage payments on #2, especially if you've done improvements on #1 so that you can sell it at a profit.

All of this assumes a pretty decent and stable income though, be warned. I know a lot of people can't afford to do what I'm describing.

Never liked that argument when I started this thread, because you know what increasing in value way more than the value of my home? The S&P500. Now, that's an assumption that might be getting tested a little bit in the future, though. But given that it generally seems to be true, why not funnel all the home costs into an investment account? The odds of the market taking and your property value tanking don't seem to be that different - heck, last time they both happened at he same time. 

Also I'm dubious over what people consider to be "improvements". Those granite countertops and stainless steel appliances might look tacky in 10 years when you go to sell. Maybe that pool you put in is a liability for someone else. And so on.

Ultimately, I did decide to buy, because 1.) there were several homes in my area that I could live in for around the same monthly cost as renting, 2.) I didn't plan on moving for 5-10 years, and 3.) I could get way more space this way.

I'd say it's working out, though it's had its ups and downs. In terms of financial gain, I do have a bit of equity, but I also opened a 401k 5 years ago and the modest investments I've put into that make it a far larger asset for me than the equity I have in my home. Had I stayed renting and doubled the amount I put into investments, I'd probably be looking at biggest houses today. But I can honestly say that I've enjoyed living in a house, in general my quality of life has been much better than when I was renting 5+ years ago.
For the most part I agree that the home you live in is not a great investment. I mostly don't enjoy owning because I care too much about the home. When I rent I don't care if the lawn is crappy or if the cabinets need to be repainted. But I've decided that I'm never not going to own a home again because it's a.good hedge against inflation. My mortgage payment is the same for the next 30 years. If the value of the dollar goes way down over that time, my mortgage payment will be dirt cheap while rents will have kept up with inflation.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Stadler on April 19, 2021, 10:33:20 AM
BUt the comparison to the S&P isn't entirely apples to apples.   You don't HAVE to invest.  You can if you want, and it makes sense to, but you won't freeze if you don't, you won't die if you don't, your shit won't be stolen if you don't.    You DO, reasonably, need a place to live; to keep you warm and dry, safe and protect whatever it is you're carrying through this mortal coil.   The RENT you pay is a negative investment.  It's not doing ANYTHING for you, economically, and in fact, you're probably OVERPAYING for your space, once you factor in no equity, first/last/security deposit, and any profit your landlord is making. 

In other words, unless you live for free, or in a cardboard box (also free), the money from your HOME isn't likely going directly into a S&P account.   And by owning, you get the equity you build, AND you get any tax write-offs you might get from carrying the mortgage.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Skeever on April 19, 2021, 10:57:14 AM
BUt the comparison to the S&P isn't entirely apples to apples.   You don't HAVE to invest.  You can if you want, and it makes sense to, but you won't freeze if you don't, you won't die if you don't, your shit won't be stolen if you don't.    You DO, reasonably, need a place to live; to keep you warm and dry, safe and protect whatever it is you're carrying through this mortal coil.   The RENT you pay is a negative investment.  It's not doing ANYTHING for you, economically, and in fact, you're probably OVERPAYING for your space, once you factor in no equity, first/last/security deposit, and any profit your landlord is making. 

In other words, unless you live for free, or in a cardboard box (also free), the money from your HOME isn't likely going directly into a S&P account.   And by owning, you get the equity you build, AND you get any tax write-offs you might get from carrying the mortgage.

And the closing costs, and the upkeep. The amounts I've paid for a new HVAC and a new roof would probably eat away at any equity I think I've earned. But at the end of the day, buying here is far cheaper than renting where I live, in fact I could not have rented an equivalent property that would have been suitable for me for anything less than maybe my current monthly payment + $300-500.  So, worth it for me, I think.  If just barely, from a financial point of view.

But also, what people want out of a living situation is not always a purely financial decision. That is why I simply do not like when people act like homebuying is a financial imperative. It's not. A dollar into your home can almost always be worth more somewhere else when it comes to finances.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: jingle.boy on April 19, 2021, 08:16:45 PM
Pretty sure we've had this debate on previous pages.

It's not. A dollar into your home can almost always be worth more somewhere else when it comes to finances.

As an investment alone, you're historically correct.  But you also then have to pay a living expense, and $1 into rent is something that earns absolutely nothing other than a roof over your head.  $1 into your home earns you a piece of an asset, and the roof over your head.  In financial terms, rent is an operating expense, and only that.  Mortgage is financing an asset, while avoiding that operating expense.

Unless rent + investing > mortgage in your area, I see no situation where $1 towards home ownership is less valuable than $1 in rent.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Cool Chris on April 19, 2021, 08:29:49 PM
Without judging who is (more) right on this topic, it makes me think of some friends whom I actually worked for. They were (not very successful) real estate investors who viewed their properties as investments, and readily admitted to such. Having known them for as long and as well as I did, I can say with certainty that they never felt like the houses they lived in were ever a home. It was never important to them, but it is important to many, and something that is very hard to quantify.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Fiery Winds on April 19, 2021, 09:01:24 PM
The rent vs. buy question is something I've been thinking about a lot recently. I'm single, living in the SF bay area and while I have no plans to move, I'm having a hard time justifying a decision to build equity when it would mean my monthly living expense would increase anywhere from 2-4x (currently renting a house with 2 roommates). As Skeever pointed out, I feel that I would be better served saving/investing that extra cash into the market. As a renter, I didn't have to pay to have the trees trimmed this past winter because it was a danger to the neighbor's roof. I didn't have to pay to replace the fence on either side of us in the backyard. And I also didn't have to pay to replace the dishwasher and replace aging plumbing under the sink last month.

That said, I've considered a longer commute and purchasing a small condo, and that may be what I end up doing if/when my current situation runs its course (landlord's decide to sell, roommates move out, etc.)
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: TAC on April 19, 2021, 09:04:35 PM
The rent vs. buy question is something I've been thinking about a lot recently. I'm single, living in the SF bay area and while I have no plans to move, I'm having a hard time justifying a decision to build equity when it would mean my monthly living expense would increase anywhere from 2-4x (currently renting a house with 2 roommates).

Not sure how old you are, but at what point do we stop living with roommates?
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Fiery Winds on April 19, 2021, 09:38:10 PM
34. Why the negative view on roommates? When the rent for a 1bd/1ba apt. averages between 1.8-2.2k and you can pay about half that to room with 2 friends, that seems frugal to me.

I've been here for about 8 years now, back when it was literally what I could afford, and now that my career is set and I could technically stretch my paycheck to make the mortgage+everything else, I don't see the rush. I view it as an opportunity to bank the savings as long as I can.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: jingle.boy on April 20, 2021, 04:48:32 AM
34. Why the negative view on roommates? When the rent for a 1bd/1ba apt. averages between 1.8-2.2k and you can pay about half that to room with 2 friends, that seems frugal to me.

I've been here for about 8 years now, back when it was literally what I could afford, and now that my career is set and I could technically stretch my paycheck to make the mortgage+everything else, I don't see the rush. I view it as an opportunity to bank the savings as long as I can.

Fair points... and I wasn't thinking about those that are single and living with roommates (my bad).  My comments were based on the costs/expenses for families.  To that end, for you, rent+investments is very likely < mortgage+homeowner expenses.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Super Dude on April 20, 2021, 05:14:01 AM
34. Why the negative view on roommates? When the rent for a 1bd/1ba apt. averages between 1.8-2.2k and you can pay about half that to room with 2 friends, that seems frugal to me.

I've been here for about 8 years now, back when it was literally what I could afford, and now that my career is set and I could technically stretch my paycheck to make the mortgage+everything else, I don't see the rush. I view it as an opportunity to bank the savings as long as I can.

Fair points... and I wasn't thinking about those that are single and living with roommates (my bad).  My comments were based on the costs/expenses for families.  To that end, for you, rent+investments is very likely < mortgage+homeowner expenses.

True. My post was written from a family perspective.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: TAC on April 20, 2021, 06:08:42 AM
34. Why the negative view on roommates? When the rent for a 1bd/1ba apt. averages between 1.8-2.2k and you can pay about half that to room with 2 friends, that seems frugal to me.

I've been here for about 8 years now, back when it was literally what I could afford, and now that my career is set and I could technically stretch my paycheck to make the mortgage+everything else, I don't see the rush. I view it as an opportunity to bank the savings as long as I can.

Yeah, that all makes sense. I didn't mean to make it sound so condescending.


I had gotten married and divorced in my mid 20's and when I moved out I moved into a house with three other people (who I did not know, I answered an ad), where my rent was just $250. This was back in '95-'96. I was there for not quite a year. But I viewed it as transitional. I could've never envisioned myself living long term like that.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Skeever on April 20, 2021, 07:25:09 AM
Unless rent + investing > mortgage in your area, I see no situation where $1 towards home ownership is less valuable than $1 in rent.

Rent + investing is probably the "cheaper" option for most areas in this country. Especially those cities with big job markets. And especially for a young person who considers being able to pack up and go where opportunity calls as one of their advantages. Sure you get something back from that $1 you put into your house, after you take out the taxes, PMI, insurance, upkeep costs, and so on. Maybe like 20% of my monthly payment goes into equity. You can find another place for your dollar that can beat that, even if you have to rent, and especially if you don't want to be a homeowner or don't want to settle. I don't see it as a financial imperative, or much of a financial benefit, compared to other things, despite being a homeowner personally. And that's good news for young people today because we are experiencing, once again, a historic shortage of affordable housing that is available to them. That's all I'm saying.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Stadler on April 20, 2021, 08:32:22 AM
The rent vs. buy question is something I've been thinking about a lot recently. I'm single, living in the SF bay area and while I have no plans to move, I'm having a hard time justifying a decision to build equity when it would mean my monthly living expense would increase anywhere from 2-4x (currently renting a house with 2 roommates). As Skeever pointed out, I feel that I would be better served saving/investing that extra cash into the market. As a renter, I didn't have to pay to have the trees trimmed this past winter because it was a danger to the neighbor's roof. I didn't have to pay to replace the fence on either side of us in the backyard. And I also didn't have to pay to replace the dishwasher and replace aging plumbing under the sink last month.

That said, I've considered a longer commute and purchasing a small condo, and that may be what I end up doing if/when my current situation runs its course (landlord's decide to sell, roommates move out, etc.)

Skeever is right when you're discussing the DIFFERENCE.    If renting, all in, costs $1000 a month, and buying, all in, costs $2000 a month, then sure, there are situations where it makes sense.   No question.    But if the rent and buy are close or identical (forget about if buying is CHEAPER) then it's not an opinion.   It's simply math, and math that has been done by millions of people over decades.    If your dwelling expenses are $1000/month, and you're renting, the "investment" value is negative.  It's cash out (sometimes more than just the rent value) and with zero return.  If you're buying, then when you consider ALL factors, including equity and tax impacts, it's positive (even if markets drop; your value in terms of equity is your base purchase price unless and until you SELL or refinance).  And that doesn't even consider that you likely have greater purchasing power with the house (leveraging). Hell, if you had sure-fire investments that you knew would return, you could even take a home equity line and invest THAT, if you're feeling bold, and come out even further ahead (I'm a shade too old and conservative for that move). 

The way Skeever first wrote it, it seemed to imply that dwelling expenses were a discretional spend, and that's only true after a certain point or in extenuating circumstances (I'm not considering those that squat on their freind's couches, or opt to live with their parents, though even in those scenarios, I think there are benefits to home ownership). 
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: lordxizor on April 20, 2021, 08:45:25 AM
You gotta make sure you include upkeep and repair expenses in your comparison though. Many forget that and think that their mortgage is $200 cheaper than rent so they're saving money. We've averaged around $400 a month in repairs,  renovations, and random small expenses since we've moved in. None of those expenses would have been present if we were renting. Still makes sense for us to own, but not by that much. If we'd seen average home value gains instead of crazy big gains over the last few years we'd be about breaking even. Basically we're only ahead because we got lucky with home value increases.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Chino on April 20, 2021, 09:41:03 AM
You gotta make sure you include upkeep and repair expenses in your comparison though. Many forget that and think that their mortgage is $200 cheaper than rent so they're saving money. We've averaged around $400 a month in repairs,  renovations, and random small expenses since we've moved in. None of those expenses would have been present if we were renting. Still makes sense for us to own, but not by that much. If we'd seen average home value gains instead of crazy big gains over the last few years we'd be about breaking even. Basically we're only ahead because we got lucky with home value increases.

In the 30 years my parents have owned their house (original owners), they've had to:

Get a driveway done twice - $25K
30 years of lawn mowing service - $18K give or take
30 years of snow plowing the driveway - $18K give or take
New well - $15K
All new windows front and back - $12K
New septic tank - $5K
Furnace replaced - $6K
Central air install - $6K
Two roofs - $25K
4 stain jobs - $20K

Those are just the big jobs I can think of off hand. I'm sure my father could give me a have dozen more. Since buying the house, they've also converted every room and hallway from carpet/linoleum to hardwood. Multiple refrigerators, dishwashers, washing machines, dryers, and water purifiers in the basement have been replaced throughout the years.

Just the basic shit has cost them $150K over 30 years, on top of the $220K they bought the new house for.

I often have the talk with my father about whether or not buying makes more sense financially. It's really entirely circumstantial. In my parents' case, they are not going to come out that far ahead if you ended up doing all the math. But my dad always said "I bought this house because it's where I wanted to live and was a good place to raise a family, not as an investment". I'm sure plenty here will point out the unnecessary expenses of paying someone to mow the lawn or pay someone to do the driveway, but my dad's time was more important to him (there was also a zoning rule that prohibited a shed, and he didn't want to give up the garage to lawn equipment). He could have done the lawn after work on his own, but he wanted to help coach my baseball team and my sister's soccer team, or make music or something instead. The premium that came with the cost of owning that house gave him the life he wanted. He made plenty of other investments elsewhere. Never saw the house as one.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Skeever on April 20, 2021, 10:06:20 AM
The rent vs. buy question is something I've been thinking about a lot recently. I'm single, living in the SF bay area and while I have no plans to move, I'm having a hard time justifying a decision to build equity when it would mean my monthly living expense would increase anywhere from 2-4x (currently renting a house with 2 roommates). As Skeever pointed out, I feel that I would be better served saving/investing that extra cash into the market. As a renter, I didn't have to pay to have the trees trimmed this past winter because it was a danger to the neighbor's roof. I didn't have to pay to replace the fence on either side of us in the backyard. And I also didn't have to pay to replace the dishwasher and replace aging plumbing under the sink last month.

That said, I've considered a longer commute and purchasing a small condo, and that may be what I end up doing if/when my current situation runs its course (landlord's decide to sell, roommates move out, etc.)

Skeever is right when you're discussing the DIFFERENCE.    If renting, all in, costs $1000 a month, and buying, all in, costs $2000 a month, then sure, there are situations where it makes sense.   No question.    But if the rent and buy are close or identical (forget about if buying is CHEAPER) then it's not an opinion.   It's simply math, and math that has been done by millions of people over decades.    If your dwelling expenses are $1000/month, and you're renting, the "investment" value is negative.  It's cash out (sometimes more than just the rent value) and with zero return.  If you're buying, then when you consider ALL factors, including equity and tax impacts, it's positive (even if markets drop; your value in terms of equity is your base purchase price unless and until you SELL or refinance).  And that doesn't even consider that you likely have greater purchasing power with the house (leveraging). Hell, if you had sure-fire investments that you knew would return, you could even take a home equity line and invest THAT, if you're feeling bold, and come out even further ahead (I'm a shade too old and conservative for that move). 

The way Skeever first wrote it, it seemed to imply that dwelling expenses were a discretional spend, and that's only true after a certain point or in extenuating circumstances (I'm not considering those that squat on their freind's couches, or opt to live with their parents, though even in those scenarios, I think there are benefits to home ownership).

This is a good thought I hadn't considered. Until you sell or refi (or I guess get reassessed?) you could always borrow against what you have in the value of your home, even if the neighborhood has tanked, and even if someone on the pedo watch list moved in next door.

But I made my initial comment in response to another poster who said they were doing everything they could to aggressive pay down their mortgage as fast as they could. I've gotten in the habit of paying a little extra principal each month myself, but I still feel it's a relatively bad way to invest a dollar. Although, who knows. Maybe you're money's best in an emergency fund these days. And maybe that emergency fund is best in a safe. I know absolutely nothing, at the end of the day.

I also agree with Chino. And, a lot of times, people aren't being realistic about what their house really cost them. The thing is, it's about what YOU want. The number of neighborhoods where you could "own" it for close to what you needed to pay on a monthly basis to rent it are diminishing. And for some people, having to deal with surprising to the order of 5-20k every few years is just going to be added stress and pressure. Not everyone wants to deal with that, and I just want people to know that if they feel home ownership is not something they're interested in, they aren't really missing out on some singular financial opportunity. There are many ways to invest, and home ownership can be a high maintenance and stressful way to to it where you might not come out ahead.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Stadler on April 20, 2021, 10:32:42 AM
If the landlord knows what they're doing, you're paying some or all of that in your rent too.    I don't mean to be snarky or insensitive, but if it didn't make sense to own over rent there would be no landlords. 
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Skeever on April 20, 2021, 11:15:04 AM
If the landlord knows what they're doing, you're paying some or all of that in your rent too.    I don't mean to be snarky or insensitive, but if it didn't make sense to own over rent there would be no landlords.

You're not being snarky or insensitive, you're just doing a lot of "yea, but!" and selectively picking out things I have said to  do your best in making something into a debate. I guess it's fun for you to never let any other post stand without being subject to your personal scrutiny. Have at it, but I've got other things to do today, and this is my last post on the topic for the foreseeable future, so the fun will end for your soon unless someone else wants to provide the free entertainment.

All I said is people need to look at their own situation and what makes sense for them. A dollar into a mortgage might not be as good as a dollar elsewhere. A dollar in a mortgage is not surefire thing, and certainly not surefire enough to impose upon young renters faced with a historically terrible housing market as some kind of financial no-brainer. I think I am lucky to find what I found, when I found it. Faced with the same decision today, I'm not sure what I would do.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Stadler on April 20, 2021, 11:47:46 AM
If the landlord knows what they're doing, you're paying some or all of that in your rent too.    I don't mean to be snarky or insensitive, but if it didn't make sense to own over rent there would be no landlords.

You're not being snarky or insensitive, you're just doing a lot of "yea, but!" and selectively picking out things I have said to  do your best in making something into a debate. I guess it's fun for you to never let any other post stand without being subject to your personal scrutiny. Have at it, but I've got other things to do today, and this is my last post on the topic for the foreseeable future, so the fun will end for your soon unless someone else wants to provide the free entertainment.

All I said is people need to look at their own situation and what makes sense for them. A dollar into a mortgage might not be as good as a dollar elsewhere. A dollar in a mortgage is not surefire thing, and certainly not surefire enough to impose upon young renters faced with a historically terrible housing market as some kind of financial no-brainer. I think I am lucky to find what I found, when I found it. Faced with the same decision today, I'm not sure what I would do.

Thanks for the personal comments, I'll take them into consideration.  But this isn't about "me" or my debating style; what I've tried to do is be as considerate and gentle as I could, and still point out that you're calling out very specific, very narrow exceptions to the rule, looking at very limited data (and thereby not comparing apples to apples) and I'm trying to as kindly as I can point out that "yeah, sure, you MIGHT be right IN THAT SPECIFIC INSTANCE", but in the VAST majority of cases, it's not a close call.   

You do you.  Rent, buy, squat.  Invest where you feel most comfortable.   Don't care.   But let's not pretend that the math that has been done millions of times over the better part of a century is "50-50" or "case-by-case".   It's not.   
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: jingle.boy on April 20, 2021, 12:31:20 PM
Unless rent + investing > mortgage in your area, I see no situation where $1 towards home ownership is less valuable than $1 in rent.

Rent + investing is probably the "cheaper" option for most areas in this country.

Wow.  I'm surprised at this.  Not challenging the statement, just surprised.  I'm not sure how that can be the case for anyone renting a standalone dwelling (ie, "rent" is simply someone else's mortgage + uplift)

I guess in my own personal experience, my house was an excellent investment (all expenses considered), AND it paid for my (family's) shelter over the last 22 years.  If I'd dumped my cost of shelter into rent - being the only income earner to absorb that rent - I see no possibility how I would have been able to invest enough of a surplus to earn the current equity I have in my home (not to mention the quality of dwelling I would have been able to afford).  Again, for single folks who can spread the cost of rent across room-mates, there's likely some merit in Skeever's point.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Stadler on April 20, 2021, 12:49:21 PM
Unless rent + investing > mortgage in your area, I see no situation where $1 towards home ownership is less valuable than $1 in rent.

Rent + investing is probably the "cheaper" option for most areas in this country.

Wow.  I'm surprised at this.  Not challenging the statement, just surprised.  I'm not sure how that can be the case for anyone renting a standalone dwelling (ie, "rent" is simply someone else's mortgage + uplift)

I guess in my own personal experience, my house was an excellent investment (all expenses considered), AND it paid for my (family's) shelter over the last 22 years.  If I'd dumped my cost of shelter into rent - being the only income earner to absorb that rent - I see no possibility how I would have been able to invest enough of a surplus to earn the current equity I have in my home (not to mention the quality of dwelling I would have been able to afford).  Again, for single folks who can spread the cost of rent across room-mates, there's likely some merit in Skeever's point.

But at the risk of incurring Skeever's wrath again, that's not apples to apples.   You can get roommates to spread across a mortgage too.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: cramx3 on April 20, 2021, 01:23:49 PM
My Mom and I often talk about this (she's a real estate agent and found/sold me my house) that buying that house and keeping it after breaking up with my x who wanted to sell it badly was the best financial decision I've ever made.  I still thank her for pushing me in that direction to buy and not rent anymore.  Even as a single dude, it's cheaper than renting an apartment here in terms of mortgage vs. rent.  Obviously the house upkeep comes at a cost, but my gains from the market so far have really outpaced any of my expenses.  I definitely have not spent $100k on my house in the last 8 years, but apparently that's the amount it's value has increased by. 
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: kirksnosehair on April 20, 2021, 01:26:24 PM
I have never received a financial benefit of any kind from renting anything.   
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: jingle.boy on April 20, 2021, 02:49:13 PM
Unless rent + investing > mortgage in your area, I see no situation where $1 towards home ownership is less valuable than $1 in rent.

Rent + investing is probably the "cheaper" option for most areas in this country.

Wow.  I'm surprised at this.  Not challenging the statement, just surprised.  I'm not sure how that can be the case for anyone renting a standalone dwelling (ie, "rent" is simply someone else's mortgage + uplift)

I guess in my own personal experience, my house was an excellent investment (all expenses considered), AND it paid for my (family's) shelter over the last 22 years.  If I'd dumped my cost of shelter into rent - being the only income earner to absorb that rent - I see no possibility how I would have been able to invest enough of a surplus to earn the current equity I have in my home (not to mention the quality of dwelling I would have been able to afford).  Again, for single folks who can spread the cost of rent across room-mates, there's likely some merit in Skeever's point.

But at the risk of incurring Skeever's wrath again, that's not apples to apples.   You can get roommates to spread across a mortgage too.

I'm not quite following you.  What's not apples-to-apples?  On your latter point, are you suggesting 3 dudes purchase a house together, and 3-way co-sign a 25-year mortgage?  Does that actually happen?  I'm not sure if I'm being facetious or not!
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: kirksnosehair on April 20, 2021, 02:52:43 PM
I've known a few unmarried couples who have bought houses together but in 57 years I've never met 3 dudes or 3 gals or any combination thereof who went in 1/3 each on a 30-year mortgage.  I'm not saying it doesn't happen, but I don't think a three-way mortgage (mortgagoutwoi?) is too common  ;)
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: cramx3 on April 20, 2021, 02:55:49 PM
Unless rent + investing > mortgage in your area, I see no situation where $1 towards home ownership is less valuable than $1 in rent.

Rent + investing is probably the "cheaper" option for most areas in this country.

Wow.  I'm surprised at this.  Not challenging the statement, just surprised.  I'm not sure how that can be the case for anyone renting a standalone dwelling (ie, "rent" is simply someone else's mortgage + uplift)

I guess in my own personal experience, my house was an excellent investment (all expenses considered), AND it paid for my (family's) shelter over the last 22 years.  If I'd dumped my cost of shelter into rent - being the only income earner to absorb that rent - I see no possibility how I would have been able to invest enough of a surplus to earn the current equity I have in my home (not to mention the quality of dwelling I would have been able to afford).  Again, for single folks who can spread the cost of rent across room-mates, there's likely some merit in Skeever's point.

But at the risk of incurring Skeever's wrath again, that's not apples to apples.   You can get roommates to spread across a mortgage too.

I'm not quite following you.  What's not apples-to-apples?  On your latter point, are you suggesting 3 dudes purchase a house together, and 3-way co-sign a 25-year mortgage?  Does that actually happen?  I'm not sure if I'm being facetious or not!

My brother lived with me for a few years.  He paid me rent.  I think, technically, I should have reported that to the IRS, but who's going to notice?

Or you can do the ole silicon valley tv show way where one guy owned the house and rents it out to aspiring tech geeks who give him a % of their apps they develop while living there.

But seriously, I'm sure there's plenty of instances of one owner renting out rooms in their house.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: TAC on April 20, 2021, 02:56:40 PM
I've known a few unmarried couples who have bought houses together but in 57 years I've never met 3 dudes or 3 gals or any combination thereof who went in 1/3 each on a 30-year mortgage.  I'm not saying it doesn't happen, but I don't think a three-way mortgage (mortgagoutwoi?) is too common  ;)

 :lol

Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: lordxizor on April 21, 2021, 08:02:43 AM
I have never received a financial benefit of any kind from renting anything.   
The financial benefit to the renter is the costs you may have incurred had you owned, which you can't really quantify. Maybe you missed out on having to pay $10k+ for home repairs by renting instead of buying. Or maybe the city would have assessed you your share of the cost of redoing your road had you bought. Maybe you would have paid $5k to upgrade a few fully functional things for cosmetic reasons. In all of those cases, renting, though the rent payment may be higher than the equivalent mortgage payment, could save you money. If you buy a house and stay there for 10+ years, those expenses average out to likely being less than what it would have cost to rent. If you're moving around every few years, if you're unlucky and have those major type of expenses, plus the cost of moving can easily become more expensive than renting.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Stadler on April 21, 2021, 09:59:59 AM
Unless rent + investing > mortgage in your area, I see no situation where $1 towards home ownership is less valuable than $1 in rent.

Rent + investing is probably the "cheaper" option for most areas in this country.

Wow.  I'm surprised at this.  Not challenging the statement, just surprised.  I'm not sure how that can be the case for anyone renting a standalone dwelling (ie, "rent" is simply someone else's mortgage + uplift)

I guess in my own personal experience, my house was an excellent investment (all expenses considered), AND it paid for my (family's) shelter over the last 22 years.  If I'd dumped my cost of shelter into rent - being the only income earner to absorb that rent - I see no possibility how I would have been able to invest enough of a surplus to earn the current equity I have in my home (not to mention the quality of dwelling I would have been able to afford).  Again, for single folks who can spread the cost of rent across room-mates, there's likely some merit in Skeever's point.

But at the risk of incurring Skeever's wrath again, that's not apples to apples.   You can get roommates to spread across a mortgage too.

I'm not quite following you.  What's not apples-to-apples?  On your latter point, are you suggesting 3 dudes purchase a house together, and 3-way co-sign a 25-year mortgage?  Does that actually happen?  I'm not sure if I'm being facetious or not!

No, not necessarily, but it's not out of the question.  But that's not where I was going with the comment.   I was referring to the idea that all these analyses are seemingly looking at one line on a balance sheet and gaming one variable to make it seem like a rent is more cost effective, while ignoring all the other lines and variables.   I'm sorry I might be coming across as a dick here, but in the COVID thread there are pages and pages of discussions about "facts" and to me this is a similar case.   This isn't opinion, this is straight math, and math that has been done by countless people over 100 years of private home ownership.   Whether it's one person or three or five or ten, rent is money thrown away.  There is NO return on that money, and in fact, depending how you calculate it, it's a negative return.   All you're doing is cutting losses by splitting rents.   If you buy, all the things that we've said are benefits that now apply.   Even if you look at the repair costs, it's not all one line of "cash outlay".  Every repair impacts the value of a home; having a roof that is five years old is more valuable, in terms of resale, than one that is 20 years old.   If you hook up water and gas to the city, that is a benefit to your property value as compared to septic and a propane tank.  So your cash outlay is NOT dollar for dollar an expense.   In some states, there are tax benefits to those improvements.   If we're back to the one line item - the cash outlay each month for rent/mortgage payment - even on the "own" side, there are ways of cutting that.  Get roommates.   I haven't in a while, but we've had roommates in our house before who are not on the mortgage but help cut expenses.   In my case, that money went to the mortgage.   My stepdaughter may move in with my stepson, and pay rent, thus cutting his mortgage.    The monthly cash outlay per person or in total doesn't change ALL the other math.  It's just a matter of degree.

And I still maintain, having been a landlord, that your rent covers many if not all of the types of improvements we're discussing.  And that's a WORSE deal, since you're paying the landlord for a new roof that you may never actually see a benefit of.   That you will NEVER get the appreciation on.   It is flat wrong to assume you're paying for a new boiler as an owner and not paying for it as a renter.   It's just a different time scale; as a renter you're paying proactively in installments as opposed to the reactive lump sum as an owner.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: jingle.boy on April 21, 2021, 11:42:28 AM
Ok, I feel ya now.  And I'm with you 100% on all of that.  I mean, NO landlord is looking to simply break-even.  Rent is ultimately ALL the costs of maintaining a dwelling, PLUS margin/profit for the landlord.  And no equity in the end.  I think there is merit in some of what others have said regarding the bottom-line finances of rent vs own, but for my personal situation, it's a no-brainer.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: kirksnosehair on April 21, 2021, 01:46:16 PM
I have never received a financial benefit of any kind from renting anything.   
The financial benefit to the renter is the costs you may have incurred had you owned, which you can't really quantify. Maybe you missed out on having to pay $10k+ for home repairs by renting instead of buying. Or maybe the city would have assessed you your share of the cost of redoing your road had you bought. Maybe you would have paid $5k to upgrade a few fully functional things for cosmetic reasons. In all of those cases, renting, though the rent payment may be higher than the equivalent mortgage payment, could save you money. If you buy a house and stay there for 10+ years, those expenses average out to likely being less than what it would have cost to rent. If you're moving around every few years, if you're unlucky and have those major type of expenses, plus the cost of moving can easily become more expensive than renting.


That's a lot of "maybes"


Here's what I know based on my own personal experience with renting versus owning.  We rented a 2-bedroom apartment for many years.  When we first moved in the rent was $900/month or $10,800/year.  We lived in that apartment for about 5 years and the rent when up by $100 a month each year.  So rent went like this:


Year 1: $900/month = $10,800/year
Year 2: $1,000/month = $12,000/year
Year 3: $1,100/month = $13,200/year
Year 4: $1,200/month = $14,400/year
Year 5: $1,300/month = $15,600/year
----------------------------------------------------------------
Total:-------------------= $66,200 rent paid over 5 years


My return on that $66,200 paid in rent = $0.00 - I paid the rent.  I traded dollars for the ability to occupy a space in someone else's building for a predetermined period of time.  Those rent payments entitled me to nothing other than the ability to legally occupy that space for the agreed to period of time.  Once that period of time ended, I had to remove myself and my property from that space.


Compare that to the finances of owning our first home:


Mortgage payment: $1,098/month but we paid $1,500/month to pay down extra on the principle of the loan.  When we had been there for 5 years we refinanced the mortgage for a lower interest rate, but our payments were $1,500/month for 5 years:


Year 1: $1,500/month = $18,000/year
Year 2: $1,500/month = $18,000/year
Year 3: $1,500/month = $18,000/year
Year 4: $1,500/month = $18,000/year
Year 5: $1,500/month = $18,000/year
--------------------------------------------
Total:--------------------- $90,000 mortgage payments over 5 years



Remember, I said our actual mortgage payment was $1,098/month but we paid $1,500 so every month we paid $402 on the principle or $4,824/year so over the first 5 years of the mortgage we paid $24,120 of extra principle, which increased our equity in the property by...$24,120


Between our $30,000 down payment when we bought the home, the $24,120 in extra principle we paid on the loan and the march of time, after living in the home for 5 years its appraised value went from $172,900 (original purchase price) to $197,900 (appraised value at the time we refinanced) which is a $25,000 appreciation in our investment.  So, that left us with about $49,120 in equity.


In 5 years until we refinanced we did about $15,000 in maintenance and repairs, mostly spent on a new roof, new furnace and paving the driveway. 


  $49,120 - equity
- $15,000 - maintenance
------------------
  $34,120


So to review, after 5 years of renting an apartment, when we moved out we got our security deposit back: $900


After 5 years of living in our first home, paying the mortgage and paying for regular maintenance and repairs and such: $34,120 in equity.  Cash value.


And 5 years later that $34k in equity had ballooned up to $77k while the remaining balance on the mortgage was under $100k.  We paid off that mortgage and used that $77k in equity for the down payment on the home we're in now - our "forever home" and we've now been there for almost 8 years and that $77k in equity we got by making that initial down payment has grown to over $200k in equity today.


If you want to rent, by all means, rent.  It's a free country but there is no denying that in most cases owning a home is far more financially beneficial than renting.   You can pay someone else's mortgage or you can pay your own.  We choose to pay our own.


Here's a fun fact:
The exact same 2-bedroom/1-bathroom apartment I am referring to above now costs $2,300/month to rent.  That's almost $400/month more than my current mortgage payment.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Skeever on April 21, 2021, 01:56:33 PM
Literally no one in this thread has said that renting is always cheaper or better than owning. What people, myself included, have said is that sometimes renting is the better financial option, and that sometimes the money you put into your home (whether deciding to purchase to begin with, or deciding to pay down a mortgage faster instead of using them money for something else - which was the catalyst for my involvement in the current conversation) could be better spent elsewhere. As I have said myself in this thread, for me it depended on 1.) the amount of space I wanted, 2.) the cost of renting vs buying and 3.) the amount of time that I thought I wanted to spend in my location. Everyone in this thread who has written about how owning was better for them seems to have met similar criteria that I had laid out for myself. That said, even though I decided to buy, I do not agree that trying to pay down my mortgage faster is as good a use of my money as just putting more into a retirement or investment account. Hence why I've come to the conclusion for myself that "a dollar put in my home could probably be better spent elsewhere".

Another thing assumed is that people want something more than a 1 or 2 Br apartment. Maybe I'm quite happy not living in a standalone dwelling, and instead living in a building in the city, where the jobs are better, and maybe I don't need a car, and I can spend all the money I'd be spending on a house on other investments. By the way, how does the electric bill in my 1br compare to the guy trying to keep a 5br house cool in a warming world, by the way? Did we talk about that? I often hear coworkers talk about electric bills north of of $500 in the summer.

 It comes down to the person's individual wants, needs, and aspirations.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: kirksnosehair on April 21, 2021, 02:51:49 PM
Literally no one in this thread has said that renting is always cheaper or better than owning.


I guess it's a good thing the word "always" doesn't even appear anywhere in my post, then  ;)
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: kirksnosehair on April 21, 2021, 02:54:44 PM
By the way, how does the electric bill in my 1br compare to the guy trying to keep a 5br house cool in a warming world, by the way? Did we talk about that? I often hear coworkers talk about electric bills north of of $500 in the summer.


I have solar panels on my roof and I actually have a positive cash flow on my electricity because I generate more than I use  :biggrin:


I haven't met anyone who rents and has solar panels but I suppose you could hang something out the window.  :corn






Edit: Forgot to add: My out of pocket cost for the solar panels was $0.00 and there is no lien on my property.  I am leasing the panels, and the electricity I am generating and selling back to National Grid pays the lease payment on top of the positive monthly cash flow. 


I already contribute the maximum amount allowed to my 401k so for me I could not imagine ever paying someone else's mortgage again.  I'd rather pay my own instead.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: lordxizor on April 21, 2021, 02:56:41 PM
I'm glad your situation worked out in your advantage kirk. For most people over a 5 year span buying is better than renting. Within 3 years of moving into our home, we have to replace all of the siding and roof which was mostly covered by insurance but ended up costing us about $7k out of pocket and we paid about $10k for a new furnace and AC. That doesn't include a bunch of other minor cosmetic improvements we did. Over that 3 year period, I'm guessing that we would have been better off renting if you factor in the closing costs on buying the home in the first place. But in the 3 years since, the scales have tipped the other other way and buying has been better, but that's mainly due to historically high value increases in homes, and historically low interest rates.

I think owning a home is a bit like investing in the stock market. In the short term, you'll usually come out ahead, but there is a good chance you can lose money. In the long term you'll almost always come out ahead unless you invest in a very poor stock or property.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: kirksnosehair on April 21, 2021, 03:03:46 PM
I'm glad your situation worked out in your advantage kirk. For most people over a 5 year span buying is better than renting. Within 3 years of moving into our home, we have to replace all of the siding and roof which was mostly covered by insurance but ended up costing us about $7k out of pocket and we paid about $10k for a new furnace and AC. That doesn't include a bunch of other minor cosmetic improvements we did. Over that 3 year period, I'm guessing that we would have been better off renting if you factor in the closing costs on buying the home in the first place. But in the 3 years since, the scales have tipped the other other way and buying has been better, but that's mainly due to historically high value increases in homes, and historically low interest rates.

I think owning a home is a bit like investing in the stock market. In the short term, you'll usually come out ahead, but there is a good chance you can lose money. In the long term you'll almost always come out ahead unless you invest in a very poor stock or property.


Uh, OK, but I literally don't know and have never met a homeowner who "lost money" on a house they stayed in more than 5 years but I admit that I only know maybe 50 people who own homes so that may not be a statistically significant enough number of people. 
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: gmillerdrake on April 21, 2021, 03:06:28 PM
Just emailed the County Assessor as the bi annual real estate assessments of our home arrived. Based off this assessment my yearly taxes are going to jump from $4,674.90 to $5,220.30. Homey don't play that. I utilized my right to challenge the assessment and basically structured the argument as one against the frail, manipulated real estate dreamscape going on right now with property values....saying, we all know it's gonna crash and when it does I'd then be stuck paying an inflated tax based off of the make believe market they assessed my home against. Will it work? I'll let you know. The second year we were here in our new home I did something similar and was able to get them to hold off on raising my assessed value.....maybe I'll get lucky again.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Skeever on April 21, 2021, 03:06:57 PM
Literally no one in this thread has said that renting is always cheaper or better than owning.


I guess it's a good thing the word "always" doesn't even appear anywhere in my post, then  ;)

No worries. I guess I misunderstood your intent by sharing all that.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: kirksnosehair on April 21, 2021, 03:10:17 PM
I can certainly understand that different people have different circumstances.


I don't know squat about stocks and I'm too old to be taking risks at 57 so for me real estate is the way to go, just based on my own personal history with it.


If you look at the markets, they basically follow each other.  The real estate market is a bit steadier, but it climbs and falls pretty evenly with the Dow


By the way, the reason I shared all that is because the thread is titled "The Benefits of Home Ownership" so I was just trying to explain why I think it's been beneficial to me.



Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: kirksnosehair on April 21, 2021, 03:14:05 PM
Just emailed the County Assessor as the bi annual real estate assessments of our home arrived. Based off this assessment my yearly taxes are going to jump from $4,674.90 to $5,220.30. Homey don't play that. I utilized my right to challenge the assessment and basically structured the argument as one against the frail, manipulated real estate dreamscape going on right now with property values....saying, we all know it's gonna crash and when it does I'd then be stuck paying an inflated tax based off of the make believe market they assessed my home against. Will it work? I'll let you know. The second year we were here in our new home I did something similar and was able to get them to hold off on raising my assessed value.....maybe I'll get lucky again.


Jeez, what a racket!  That's one of the downsides to owning: Real Estate taxes.  I wish my tax bill was that low.  We're up around $10k/year in property tax  :facepalm:

Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: TAC on April 21, 2021, 03:25:38 PM
I have never looked at any financial ramifications of my home. Sure we bought something we could afford. We've put two additions on, but before each, we gauged the market, and even had a buyer once, but we could never really buy our way back into town.

So for me, the real benefit of home ownership was giving my kids a nice place to grow up.




Jeez, what a racket!  That's one of the downsides to owning: Real Estate taxes.  I wish my tax bill was that low.  We're up around $10k/year in property tax  :facepalm:

Wow!

We were at $5746 last year. That's actually $60 less than the previous year.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: gmillerdrake on April 21, 2021, 04:02:00 PM
Just emailed the County Assessor as the bi annual real estate assessments of our home arrived. Based off this assessment my yearly taxes are going to jump from $4,674.90 to $5,220.30. Homey don't play that. I utilized my right to challenge the assessment and basically structured the argument as one against the frail, manipulated real estate dreamscape going on right now with property values....saying, we all know it's gonna crash and when it does I'd then be stuck paying an inflated tax based off of the make believe market they assessed my home against. Will it work? I'll let you know. The second year we were here in our new home I did something similar and was able to get them to hold off on raising my assessed value.....maybe I'll get lucky again.


Jeez, what a racket!  That's one of the downsides to owning: Real Estate taxes.  I wish my tax bill was that low.  We're up around $10k/year in property tax  :facepalm:

That's insane Barry....I can't imagine that! There are areas in and around St. Louis where they'd be staring at that type of real estate tax or more. Where I'm at, in the county I'm in, very rural.....this is a pretty high assessment.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: cramx3 on April 21, 2021, 04:04:55 PM
Lucky, my property taxes are approaching $7k a year and I bet my house and property are smaller than all of yours! That's living in NJ.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: LudwigVan on April 21, 2021, 04:09:39 PM
My property taxes approach 18k.  :mehlin   Nassau county NY :facepalm:
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: TAC on April 21, 2021, 04:15:36 PM
WOW!!
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: LudwigVan on April 21, 2021, 04:20:35 PM
And that’s one of the reasons I’m retiring out of state.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Skeever on April 21, 2021, 04:38:46 PM
That reminds me what I realized when I started this thread. I should have preferenced anything I said about homeowning maybe not being as worth it with the fact that I live in New Jersey 
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Cool Chris on April 21, 2021, 06:15:29 PM
My property taxes approach 18k.  :mehlin   Nassau county NY :facepalm:

Holy crap!
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Snow Dog on April 21, 2021, 08:23:29 PM
Holy Christ you guys! People here are always bitching about how high property tax is in Oregon, and I usually agree when I’m paying $3.6k for a .2 acre lot and house. Come to find out that’s nothing compared to other parts of the country. Hot damn!
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Cool Chris on April 21, 2021, 08:30:01 PM
So for me, the real benefit of home ownership was giving my kids a nice place to grow up.

A friend of mine and I were having a conversation about this the other day. He found himself in a situation where they had to sell their house and rent an apartment, and he felt like he wasn't providing his family with a good home. I told him a home is more than just four walls and a ceiling. Not everyone can afford a home (especially around here!) but aside from the financial ramifications, providing your kids with a nice, safe, comfortable place to call hoome should be every parent's job #1.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: TAC on April 21, 2021, 08:34:51 PM
So for me, the real benefit of home ownership was giving my kids a nice place to grow up.

A friend of mine and I were having a conversation about this the other day. He found himself in a situation where they had to sell their house and rent an apartment, and he felt like he wasn't providing his family with a good home. I told him a home is more than just four walls and a ceiling. Not everyone can afford a home (especially around here!) but aside from the financial ramifications, providing your kids with a nice, safe, comfortable place to call hoome should be every parent's job #1.

So I didn't mean that to say that if we had an apartment, we wouldn't be able to provide a home. I understand not everyone can afford a home. And I have no disrespect to anyone in that situation.

My point was that I never viewed my house as having anything to do with being a financial asset.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Cool Chris on April 21, 2021, 09:03:32 PM
Right and sorry, that was what I was getting at in the conversation with my friend I referenced. He felt his apartment was somehow less of a home because he didn't own it, and I didn't know if that was fair because it was (in my estimation) a nice place for him and his family, even if it wasn't where he was hoping to be, either structurally or financially at that point in his life.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Chino on April 22, 2021, 06:38:18 AM
Holy Christ you guys! People here are always bitching about how high property tax is in Oregon, and I usually agree when I’m paying $3.6k for a .2 acre lot and house. Come to find out that’s nothing compared to other parts of the country. Hot damn!

Last year I paid $5,800 in property taxes on my 1700sqft house. I live on a .18 acre lot and have street parking. I live in arguably one of the least desirable cities in my state, and the mill rate is something like 57%


Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Stadler on April 22, 2021, 08:31:29 AM
I have never received a financial benefit of any kind from renting anything.   
The financial benefit to the renter is the costs you may have incurred had you owned, which you can't really quantify. Maybe you missed out on having to pay $10k+ for home repairs by renting instead of buying. Or maybe the city would have assessed you your share of the cost of redoing your road had you bought. Maybe you would have paid $5k to upgrade a few fully functional things for cosmetic reasons. In all of those cases, renting, though the rent payment may be higher than the equivalent mortgage payment, could save you money. If you buy a house and stay there for 10+ years, those expenses average out to likely being less than what it would have cost to rent. If you're moving around every few years, if you're unlucky and have those major type of expenses, plus the cost of moving can easily become more expensive than renting.


That's a lot of "maybes"


Here's what I know based on my own personal experience with renting versus owning.  We rented a 2-bedroom apartment for many years.  When we first moved in the rent was $900/month or $10,800/year.  We lived in that apartment for about 5 years and the rent when up by $100 a month each year.  So rent went like this:


Year 1: $900/month = $10,800/year
Year 2: $1,000/month = $12,000/year
Year 3: $1,100/month = $13,200/year
Year 4: $1,200/month = $14,400/year
Year 5: $1,300/month = $15,600/year
----------------------------------------------------------------
Total:-------------------= $66,200 rent paid over 5 years


My return on that $66,200 paid in rent = $0.00 - I paid the rent.  I traded dollars for the ability to occupy a space in someone else's building for a predetermined period of time.  Those rent payments entitled me to nothing other than the ability to legally occupy that space for the agreed to period of time.  Once that period of time ended, I had to remove myself and my property from that space.


Compare that to the finances of owning our first home:


Mortgage payment: $1,098/month but we paid $1,500/month to pay down extra on the principle of the loan.  When we had been there for 5 years we refinanced the mortgage for a lower interest rate, but our payments were $1,500/month for 5 years:


Year 1: $1,500/month = $18,000/year
Year 2: $1,500/month = $18,000/year
Year 3: $1,500/month = $18,000/year
Year 4: $1,500/month = $18,000/year
Year 5: $1,500/month = $18,000/year
--------------------------------------------
Total:--------------------- $90,000 mortgage payments over 5 years



Remember, I said our actual mortgage payment was $1,098/month but we paid $1,500 so every month we paid $402 on the principle or $4,824/year so over the first 5 years of the mortgage we paid $24,120 of extra principle, which increased our equity in the property by...$24,120


Between our $30,000 down payment when we bought the home, the $24,120 in extra principle we paid on the loan and the march of time, after living in the home for 5 years its appraised value went from $172,900 (original purchase price) to $197,900 (appraised value at the time we refinanced) which is a $25,000 appreciation in our investment.  So, that left us with about $49,120 in equity.


In 5 years until we refinanced we did about $15,000 in maintenance and repairs, mostly spent on a new roof, new furnace and paving the driveway. 


  $49,120 - equity
- $15,000 - maintenance
------------------
  $34,120


So to review, after 5 years of renting an apartment, when we moved out we got our security deposit back: $900


After 5 years of living in our first home, paying the mortgage and paying for regular maintenance and repairs and such: $34,120 in equity.  Cash value.


And 5 years later that $34k in equity had ballooned up to $77k while the remaining balance on the mortgage was under $100k.  We paid off that mortgage and used that $77k in equity for the down payment on the home we're in now - our "forever home" and we've now been there for almost 8 years and that $77k in equity we got by making that initial down payment has grown to over $200k in equity today.


If you want to rent, by all means, rent.  It's a free country but there is no denying that in most cases owning a home is far more financially beneficial than renting.   You can pay someone else's mortgage or you can pay your own.  We choose to pay our own.


Here's a fun fact:
The exact same 2-bedroom/1-bathroom apartment I am referring to above now costs $2,300/month to rent.  That's almost $400/month more than my current mortgage payment.

AND, you left off benefits:  if you itemized your taxes, you had savings there.  If you leveraged your home in ANY way - including having your credit score go up allowing you access to lower-interest-rate loans for other things like cars - you had savings there.   Your math is 100% correct and shows, clearly, the benefits, and it's STILL selling it short. 
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Stadler on April 22, 2021, 08:36:10 AM
By the way, how does the electric bill in my 1br compare to the guy trying to keep a 5br house cool in a warming world, by the way? Did we talk about that? I often hear coworkers talk about electric bills north of of $500 in the summer.


I have solar panels on my roof and I actually have a positive cash flow on my electricity because I generate more than I use  :biggrin:


I haven't met anyone who rents and has solar panels but I suppose you could hang something out the window.  :corn






Edit: Forgot to add: My out of pocket cost for the solar panels was $0.00 and there is no lien on my property.  I am leasing the panels, and the electricity I am generating and selling back to National Grid pays the lease payment on top of the positive monthly cash flow. 


I already contribute the maximum amount allowed to my 401k so for me I could not imagine ever paying someone else's mortgage again.  I'd rather pay my own instead.

I'm moving two towns over at the end of June, and that is the second call I'm going to make (first is a generator, since that part of the state loses power at a ridiculously high frequency).   I've been looking at that for a while, but haven't pulled the trigger because of that potential move.

Absent improvements like that, though, utility rates aren't really a measure of the difference between renting and owning; you use the power/water/gas you use, depending on the space.  Whether you're renting or not doesn't change the usage. 
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: jingle.boy on April 22, 2021, 09:11:14 AM
Generator... had to replace the one that was original to this house last year (and that wadn't cheap!).  None-the-less, while it has only kicked in a handful of times, knowing it's there and will kick on in 10 seconds is very comforting - especially since we're on septic, and have TWO sump pumps because of the ecology around here.  Those sump pumps kick in almost hourly at all times of the year.  I sure as hell wouldn't want to be without power for any extended period of time.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Stadler on April 22, 2021, 09:49:16 AM
Generator... had to replace the one that was original to this house last year (and that wadn't cheap!).  None-the-less, while it has only kicked in a handful of times, knowing it's there and will kick on in 10 seconds is very comforting - especially since we're on septic, and have TWO sump pumps because of the ecology around here.  Those sump pumps kick in almost hourly at all times of the year.  I sure as hell wouldn't want to be without power for any extended period of time.

That's us; well pump.   Plus, it seems like when power goes out, it stays out around here.   My stepson lives in the town we're moving to, and at least once each of the last two years, he's lost power for multiple days.  I have no problem with a day or even two, but once we get into three-day territory, with kids and work and all that, it becomes something different.  Plus my father-in-law lives by himself even further out in the boon-docks, and I want a safe place for him to go in case of emergency (he's lost his power three for over a week several times over the past few years).  The house is pre-wired for the generator, so it's only the unit I need, just a matter of sizing it correctly.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: jingle.boy on April 22, 2021, 12:11:44 PM
Wow... I think I'd start worrying about things after 8-12 hours.  Especially in the winter (furnace is on the generator; AC is not).  Being able to use water and the toilet is also high on my list of priorities.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Cool Chris on April 22, 2021, 12:30:07 PM
Owning a snow blower, generator, or a sump pump (I am not even sure I know what that is) is out of my realm.of experience.

And did someone here (maybe Chino) say that having a shed was not allowed on his property? What the heck kind of zoning law is that?
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: kirksnosehair on April 22, 2021, 12:40:23 PM
The generator is a good idea, but also you should definitely look into solar.  The programs and incentives they have right now are incredible.  They literally paid us to install it.  They wrote me a $1,500 check when I signed up and called a "Signing incentive." I remember thinking "this has got to be some kind of scam" so I had our lawyer look it all over and he green-lighted it.  Said we'd be kicking ourselves later for not taking the plunge so we did it.  Definitely turned out to be a great deal.


We went from having a $400/month average bill on electricity to a positive cash flow of anywhere from $40/month winter and summer to $150/month in fall and spring when we're using neither the heat nor the AC.  We didn't have to come up with any cash to get the panels installed.  We started getting the positive cash flow after about 30 days of operation.  I've had those panels for 6 years now.  $4,800 year in savings times 6 years just shy of $29k in savings.



Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: kirksnosehair on April 22, 2021, 12:44:41 PM
Owning a snow blower, generator, or a sump pump (I am not even sure I know what that is) is out of my realm.of experience.

And did someone here (maybe Chino) say that having a shed was not allowed on his property? What the heck kind of zoning law is that?


Most planned communities have a governing body of people who run the development.  They're the people who get the street lamps installed, maintain the sidewalks and grass, etc.  They're sometimes referred to as an "HOA" or "Home Owner's Association" and you have them with just about all of the newer planned communities.  My son lives in one.  You can only paint your house certain colors and use certain styles of siding, etc.  The idea is that no one in the neighborhood can turn their house into a Sanford & Son's style junkyard, driving property values in the neighborhood into the toilet.


It's a good concept, but you give up a lot of freedom.  We decided to stay out of HOA style neighborhoods so we can do basically whatever we want with the house and property.

Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Stadler on April 22, 2021, 12:53:51 PM
The generator is a good idea, but also you should definitely look into solar.  The programs and incentives they have right now are incredible.  They literally paid us to install it.  They wrote me a $1,500 check when I signed up and called a "Signing incentive." I remember thinking "this has got to be some kind of scam" so I had our lawyer look it all over and he green-lighted it.  Said we'd be kicking ourselves later for not taking the plunge so we did it.  Definitely turned out to be a great deal.


We went from having a $400/month average bill on electricity to a positive cash flow of anywhere from $40/month winter and summer to $150/month in fall and spring when we're using neither the heat nor the AC.  We didn't have to come up with any cash to get the panels installed.  We started getting the positive cash flow after about 30 days of operation.  I've had those panels for 6 years now.  $4,800 year in savings times 6 years just shy of $29k in savings.

That's fucking insane.  I'm going to do it, and I'm hoping for like half of that.   

 :tup
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Cool Chris on April 22, 2021, 01:11:26 PM
Kirk, I am president of our HOA  :yarr
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: gmillerdrake on April 22, 2021, 02:22:46 PM
Just emailed the County Assessor as the bi annual real estate assessments of our home arrived. Based off this assessment my yearly taxes are going to jump from $4,674.90 to $5,220.30. Homey don't play that. I utilized my right to challenge the assessment and basically structured the argument as one against the frail, manipulated real estate dreamscape going on right now with property values....saying, we all know it's gonna crash and when it does I'd then be stuck paying an inflated tax based off of the make believe market they assessed my home against. Will it work? I'll let you know. The second year we were here in our new home I did something similar and was able to get them to hold off on raising my assessed value.....maybe I'll get lucky again.


Yeah.....short version of the email I just received back is that they basically told me......"Tough shit, deal with it"  :lol
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: jingle.boy on April 22, 2021, 02:33:00 PM
Just emailed the County Assessor as the bi annual real estate assessments of our home arrived. Based off this assessment my yearly taxes are going to jump from $4,674.90 to $5,220.30. Homey don't play that. I utilized my right to challenge the assessment and basically structured the argument as one against the frail, manipulated real estate dreamscape going on right now with property values....saying, we all know it's gonna crash and when it does I'd then be stuck paying an inflated tax based off of the make believe market they assessed my home against. Will it work? I'll let you know. The second year we were here in our new home I did something similar and was able to get them to hold off on raising my assessed value.....maybe I'll get lucky again.


Yeah.....short version of the email I just received back is that they basically told me......"Tough shit, deal with it"  :lol

(https://mindofbrosephus.files.wordpress.com/2016/07/wp-1467732300521.jpg?w=584)

"Suck it up, buttercup"
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: kirksnosehair on April 22, 2021, 03:13:30 PM
The generator is a good idea, but also you should definitely look into solar.  The programs and incentives they have right now are incredible.  They literally paid us to install it.  They wrote me a $1,500 check when I signed up and called a "Signing incentive." I remember thinking "this has got to be some kind of scam" so I had our lawyer look it all over and he green-lighted it.  Said we'd be kicking ourselves later for not taking the plunge so we did it.  Definitely turned out to be a great deal.


We went from having a $400/month average bill on electricity to a positive cash flow of anywhere from $40/month winter and summer to $150/month in fall and spring when we're using neither the heat nor the AC.  We didn't have to come up with any cash to get the panels installed.  We started getting the positive cash flow after about 30 days of operation.  I've had those panels for 6 years now.  $4,800 year in savings times 6 years just shy of $29k in savings.

That's fucking insane.  I'm going to do it, and I'm hoping for like half of that.   

 :tup


We're in a somewhat unusual situation where my house faces exactly south/south west and I have a very large and relatively flat roof onto which we've mounted 32 panels.  The sun is so strong on my front door in the summer time that we can't even grab the door knob to open it.  We're in the process of replacing the door with a fiberglass one.  According to the reports they send me we are generating more electricity than any other house in my neighborhood, but the guy next door who has an even bigger place has panels going in by the same company this week so our reign as the neighborhood electricity generating champions may be coming to an end.  :lol


Still, it's pretty fucking cool to be selling energy back to the utility instead of paying a bill  :biggrin:


When the project manager told us we had a chance of actually making money on our electricity I was incredulous and I told him I'd be very surprised to see something like that happen.  But it not only happened, it happened immediately.  From the day those panels went live we've never paid for electricity again. 
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Grappler on April 23, 2021, 07:13:52 AM
Just emailed the County Assessor as the bi annual real estate assessments of our home arrived. Based off this assessment my yearly taxes are going to jump from $4,674.90 to $5,220.30. Homey don't play that. I utilized my right to challenge the assessment and basically structured the argument as one against the frail, manipulated real estate dreamscape going on right now with property values....saying, we all know it's gonna crash and when it does I'd then be stuck paying an inflated tax based off of the make believe market they assessed my home against. Will it work? I'll let you know. The second year we were here in our new home I did something similar and was able to get them to hold off on raising my assessed value.....maybe I'll get lucky again.


Yeah.....short version of the email I just received back is that they basically told me......"Tough shit, deal with it"  :lol

I did that a few years ago - challenged my home's assessment to try and get my property taxes reduced.  I went online, filled out the form and selected comparable homes in the surrounding town(s) where the homes sold for less than my home's appraised value.

The county came back with three other comparable homes that had higher sale values and said "we feel your assessment is correct."   I'm not sure how I can win on that one.   My house and my neighbor's house are virtually identical.  When his assessment and mine get out of whack someday, then I'll try again.  I don't think it's worth the effort and it's not worth paying a lawyer. 
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: gmillerdrake on April 23, 2021, 08:06:20 AM
Just emailed the County Assessor as the bi annual real estate assessments of our home arrived. Based off this assessment my yearly taxes are going to jump from $4,674.90 to $5,220.30. Homey don't play that. I utilized my right to challenge the assessment and basically structured the argument as one against the frail, manipulated real estate dreamscape going on right now with property values....saying, we all know it's gonna crash and when it does I'd then be stuck paying an inflated tax based off of the make believe market they assessed my home against. Will it work? I'll let you know. The second year we were here in our new home I did something similar and was able to get them to hold off on raising my assessed value.....maybe I'll get lucky again.


Yeah.....short version of the email I just received back is that they basically told me......"Tough shit, deal with it"  :lol

I did that a few years ago - challenged my home's assessment to try and get my property taxes reduced.  I went online, filled out the form and selected comparable homes in the surrounding town(s) where the homes sold for less than my home's appraised value.

The county came back with three other comparable homes that had higher sale values and said "we feel your assessment is correct."   I'm not sure how I can win on that one.   My house and my neighbor's house are virtually identical.  When his assessment and mine get out of whack someday, then I'll try again.  I don't think it's worth the effort and it's not worth paying a lawyer.

Yeah.....it was a longshot but $45 increase a month is $45 a month. It's not a massive increase relatively speaking but I thought it was worth a shot.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: jingle.boy on April 23, 2021, 09:08:11 AM
Totally.  "No" is the worse they could say??  It's not like you'll get "You're right, we actually should assess it higher"  :biggrin:
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: gmillerdrake on April 23, 2021, 09:19:26 AM
Totally.  "No" is the worse they could say??  It's not like you'll get "You're right, we actually should assess it higher" :biggrin:

 :lol   Wouldn't have that been a kick in the nuts   
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Phoenix87x on April 25, 2021, 05:30:39 PM
Any idea when you guys think housing prices will come back down? I was looking to get something modest, but the prices are way to high for my blood right now.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Stadler on April 26, 2021, 06:57:30 AM
From what I understand, not for a while.  One of the drivers is that there aren't any foreclosures out there.  I would think that at least until that process starts up, you're going to see a seller's market.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Chino on April 26, 2021, 06:57:59 AM
Any idea when you guys think housing prices will come back down? I was looking to get something modest, but the prices are way to high for my blood right now.

That's such a hard question to answer. It could be years. One would think the demand would eventually have to come down, but there's lots of talk now of possible student loan forgiveness. If that were to happen, I know 3 or 4 people that would be house hunting the next day. I imagine that'd ring true for a lot of people in my age bracket, and I think that would drive further demand.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: cramx3 on April 26, 2021, 07:19:01 AM
Also add in the current cost to build, the housing supply just isn't there right now.  It really sucks for those who want to purchase.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: hunnus2000 on April 26, 2021, 07:44:32 AM
Any idea when you guys think housing prices will come back down? I was looking to get something modest, but the prices are way to high for my blood right now.

That's such a hard question to answer. It could be years. One would think the demand would eventually have to come down, but there's lots of talk now of possible student loan forgiveness. If that were to happen, I know 3 or 4 people that would be house hunting the next day. I imagine that'd ring true for a lot of people in my age bracket, and I think that would drive further demand.

I really hope that happens. This would help younger people participate in the economy pumping $$ into our economy. It's a win - win for everyone.

As far as when will prices come down? In 25 years of home ownership, I have not seen prices go down in any significant manner. My parents bought their house in Dallas for 20K (back in the day). We sold it back in 2017 for 385K.  We bought our house in 1997 for 157K and sold it in 2017 for 410K. I wouldn't count on prices going down anytime soon.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Stadler on April 26, 2021, 07:58:55 AM
Also add in the current cost to build, the housing supply just isn't there right now.  It really sucks for those who want to purchase.

That's in part because of the lack of foreclosures.  There's nothing to balance the pure market aspect of these transactions.  I put my house up as "coming soon" today (it goes live Friday) and already have a showing lined up.  There's something like four houses in my entire town in a similar size/age/price range. That's an insanely low inventory (there are 45,000 people in my town).  My agent was telling me this morning that he was working with a young couple with a 9-month old, and they put in EIGHT offers over the past few weeks, and finally landed one, and that was in part because the seller wanted to sell to them; that seller had something like six offers to pick from. 
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Chino on April 26, 2021, 08:10:02 AM
Also add in the current cost to build, the housing supply just isn't there right now.  It really sucks for those who want to purchase.

That's in part because of the lack of foreclosures.  There's nothing to balance the pure market aspect of these transactions.  I put my house up as "coming soon" today (it goes live Friday) and already have a showing lined up.  There's something like four houses in my entire town in a similar size/age/price range. That's an insanely low inventory (there are 45,000 people in my town).  My agent was telling me this morning that he was working with a young couple with a 9-month old, and they put in EIGHT offers over the past few weeks, and finally landed one, and that was in part because the seller wanted to sell to them; that seller had something like six offers to pick from.

The house next door to me went on the market four weeks ago. I got a Zillow alert when it went live, and within an hour of it being listed it had over 600 views and almost 100 saves. There was legit traffic in my my neighborhood the entire afternoon. There were multiple realtors showing the house at once. It was crazy. The house was taken off the market the next day and it's been "under contract" on Zillow ever since.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: cramx3 on April 26, 2021, 08:16:52 AM
Also add in the current cost to build, the housing supply just isn't there right now.  It really sucks for those who want to purchase.

That's in part because of the lack of foreclosures.  There's nothing to balance the pure market aspect of these transactions.  I put my house up as "coming soon" today (it goes live Friday) and already have a showing lined up.  There's something like four houses in my entire town in a similar size/age/price range. That's an insanely low inventory (there are 45,000 people in my town).  My agent was telling me this morning that he was working with a young couple with a 9-month old, and they put in EIGHT offers over the past few weeks, and finally landed one, and that was in part because the seller wanted to sell to them; that seller had something like six offers to pick from.

The house next door to me went on the market four weeks ago. I got a Zillow alert when it went live, and within an hour of it being listed it had over 600 views and almost 100 saves. There was legit traffic in my my neighborhood the entire afternoon. There were multiple realtors showing the house at once. It was crazy. The house was taken off the market the next day and it's been "under contract" on Zillow ever since.

The house next to me was flipped.  It foreclosesed like 2 years ago but didn't sell until last fall.  It was gutted and the pictures on zillow actually look really nice.  Like a HUGE upgrade.  It went on sale a few weeks ago.  Noticed the for sale sign on a friday morning, when I got home from work there were cars all over lined up to see it and that went on the entire weekend.  Zillow says its under contract now.  Listed at over 60K more than what Zillow says my house is worth.  Granted, this house is slightly larger (had an addition) and has a pool, plus the recent work done on it so it definitely should be worth more than mine.... but I can't help but think if this sells at it's listing price, it'll be another boost to my home value.  Sadly, I've kind of enjoyed no one living next door.  The way our patios are set up, they can see me pretty easily so I won't have as much privacy in my backyard as I currently do.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: lordxizor on April 26, 2021, 10:56:02 AM
I've heard even with the inevitable foreclosures caused by the pandemic there will still be a severe shortage of homes for those who want to buy. If I were in the market for a home I would not be waiting to see if prices go down. It's like timing the stock market. Generally not a great idea.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: gmillerdrake on April 26, 2021, 06:23:06 PM
So the wife and I went out last Saturday to look for area rugs being that we're putting hardwood flooring in. Need (3).....dining room, office and living room. We found one we liked at Sams for the dining room then headed to a home decor store called 'At Home'   We found two more we liked that did the trick but the thing with these freaking 8x10 area rugs is they aren't cheap.....a couple hundred bucks each.

We get to the check out and the young girl rings us up and she says "Your total is $555.67"....to which I respond with a total 'dad' quote by saying (after noticing her name tag)......"Feel free to throw your employee discount on there Nichole".  She looks at me and says "Do you want me to?".....to which I say "That's totally up to you"

A couple quick punches to the register then she says "That'll be $416.76"   :omg:   I said, "Nichole, you don't need to do that, I was kidding around"   She just said "It's OK, I don't mind helping out when I can"    I told her 'thank you' and that I hoped something really nice happened for her in the next few days.

On the way to our car my wife asked me if I felt guilty and I was like 'absolutely not'. I've used that line or a variant of it in countless moments shopping throughout the years to which I usually get a fake laugh or annoyed look.....this time it paid off.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: TAC on April 26, 2021, 07:00:12 PM
A couple quick punches to the register then she says "That'll be $416.76"   :omg:   I said, "Nichole, you don't need to do that, I was kidding around"   She just said "It's OK, I don't mind helping out when I can"    I told her 'thank you' and that I hoped something really nice happened for her in the next few days.

Well if you call a suspension and termination as something really nice happening to her...
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: wolfking on April 26, 2021, 07:24:34 PM
So the wife and I went out last Saturday to look for area rugs being that we're putting hardwood flooring in. Need (3).....dining room, office and living room. We found one we liked at Sams for the dining room then headed to a home decor store called 'At Home'   We found two more we liked that did the trick but the thing with these freaking 8x10 area rugs is they aren't cheap.....a couple hundred bucks each.

We get to the check out and the young girl rings us up and she says "Your total is $555.67"....to which I respond with a total 'dad' quote by saying (after noticing her name tag)......"Feel free to throw your employee discount on there Nichole".  She looks at me and says "Do you want me to?".....to which I say "That's totally up to you"

A couple quick punches to the register then she says "That'll be $416.76"   :omg:   I said, "Nichole, you don't need to do that, I was kidding around"   She just said "It's OK, I don't mind helping out when I can"    I told her 'thank you' and that I hoped something really nice happened for her in the next few days.

On the way to our car my wife asked me if I felt guilty and I was like 'absolutely not'. I've used that line or a variant of it in countless moments shopping throughout the years to which I usually get a fake laugh or annoyed look.....this time it paid off.

Personally, I would never ever contemplate in my wildest dreams saying that to the check out person.  Would be just awkward for both.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: gmillerdrake on April 26, 2021, 09:05:53 PM
So the wife and I went out last Saturday to look for area rugs being that we're putting hardwood flooring in. Need (3).....dining room, office and living room. We found one we liked at Sams for the dining room then headed to a home decor store called 'At Home'   We found two more we liked that did the trick but the thing with these freaking 8x10 area rugs is they aren't cheap.....a couple hundred bucks each.

We get to the check out and the young girl rings us up and she says "Your total is $555.67"....to which I respond with a total 'dad' quote by saying (after noticing her name tag)......"Feel free to throw your employee discount on there Nichole".  She looks at me and says "Do you want me to?".....to which I say "That's totally up to you"

A couple quick punches to the register then she says "That'll be $416.76"   :omg:   I said, "Nichole, you don't need to do that, I was kidding around"   She just said "It's OK, I don't mind helping out when I can"    I told her 'thank you' and that I hoped something really nice happened for her in the next few days.

On the way to our car my wife asked me if I felt guilty and I was like 'absolutely not'. I've used that line or a variant of it in countless moments shopping throughout the years to which I usually get a fake laugh or annoyed look.....this time it paid off.

Personally, I would never ever contemplate in my wildest dreams saying that to the check out person.  Would be just awkward for both.

I said it with a very joking and kidding presentation......as we were in line and raining out she was talking with us and was very personable. I say dumb crap like that all the time kidding around.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Chino on April 27, 2021, 03:21:03 AM
Yeah... If that were my business, I'd fire that person before they could say "I'm sorry". That owner gives that discount in good faith to their employees. The cashier has no right to do what they did, especially since we're talking about $100+ here and not a dime on a cup of coffee or something.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Podaar on April 27, 2021, 05:04:14 AM
In my mind, ya'll are ragging on Gary for the wrong reasons.

So the wife and I went out last Saturday to look for area rugs being that we're putting hardwood flooring in.

What the actual fuck? You're putting in beautiful hardwood floors, so it's time to spend a $1,000 on shitty area rugs? Why not just re-carpet, Gary?

:getoffmylawn:
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: jingle.boy on April 27, 2021, 06:52:23 AM
In my mind, ya'll are ragging on Gary for the wrong reasons.

So the wife and I went out last Saturday to look for area rugs being that we're putting hardwood flooring in.

What the actual fuck? You're putting in beautiful hardwood floors, so it's time to spend a $1,000 on shitty area rugs? Why not just re-carpet, Gary?

:getoffmylawn:

My thoughts precisely.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Chino on April 27, 2021, 06:59:17 AM
I prefer area rugs over the hardwood as well. If the cat/dog beats them up, they can be replaced easily. They're easy to roll up and bring somewhere to be cleaned. You can swap them out without too much fuss if you decide to change your room's décor. You can resell them when the time comes. They protect the hardwood from the living room coffee table that I'm constantly repositioning. Etc. 
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Stadler on April 27, 2021, 06:59:53 AM
I actually don't see the problem.   Carpets, especially wall-to-wall, are a permanent, inflexible fixture.   If you decide to switch the room use, or rearrange the layout, you're stuck.    Dog takes a massive shit on the rug?  Roll it up, and bite the $125 bullet.   I remember someone - not me - left a pool of vomit on the floor in the bedroom of the condo we rented when we moved back to Connecticut, and it was a hefty chunk out of my security deposit because it wasn't as easy as cutting out a 3' by 3' square and replacing it.  I did exactly the same thing in my upstairs bedrooms (all except the master, but only because I ran out of time).   Makes perfect sense to me.   

EDIT:  Ninja'd by Chino.    :tup
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: cramx3 on April 27, 2021, 07:53:37 AM
I have a few area carpets on my hardwood floors.  I don't see the issue.  I also don't see any issue with the girl giving a discount.  She didn't have to and she made a nice gesture, if only more of those people existed in this world. (and I'm making the assumption this girl doesn't regularly abuse her discount).  Having said that, I would feel to awkward to even joke about such a thing.  Last week a work vendor took us out to lunch and he got a milkshake with his burger.  He joked to the waiter saying the manager told him he could have a free refill and laughed as it was clearly a joke.  The waiter was so confused and just said thats not how it works.  OK not very funny joke, but the vendor did it AGAIN when he finished his milkshake which actually made me a little uncomfortable.  Like the joke wasn't very funny because the waiter didn't like it or get it.  It got real awkward.  After our meal, the waiter gave the guy a free milkshake.  ???  Now to me, that was a nice gesture but also our vendor was kind of a dick about it vs. just making a joke.  Very awkward IMO.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: jingle.boy on April 27, 2021, 08:01:48 AM
After I dropped $24 Gs to put hardwood on my entire main floor, I certainly wasn't going to cover up 25% of it with area carpet(s).  We got a style of wood that was "distressed", so I have no worry about the dogs' nails roughing it up, or denting/scratching it - it already looks that way.

That's just me.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: ReaperKK on April 27, 2021, 09:23:27 AM
I prefer area rugs over the hardwood as well. If the cat/dog beats them up, they can be replaced easily. They're easy to roll up and bring somewhere to be cleaned. You can swap them out without too much fuss if you decide to change your room's décor. You can resell them when the time comes. They protect the hardwood from the living room coffee table that I'm constantly repositioning. Etc. 

I feel the same way, I hate carpets but area rugs I'm cool with. My dream house will have zero carpets.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: gmillerdrake on April 28, 2021, 11:50:31 AM
After I dropped $24 Gs to put hardwood on my entire main floor, I certainly wasn't going to cover up 25% of it with area carpet(s).  We got a style of wood that was "distressed", so I have no worry about the dogs' nails roughing it up, or denting/scratching it - it already looks that way.

We have a rug to go under my desk, under the formal dining room table, and under the main rooms furniture. All things I don't want sliding around damaging the flooring. There will be plenty of 'open' floor to showcase the new hardwood....it's not something we're too concerned about.


And....man, tough crowd concerning the comment I made to the cashier. I've always engaged employees of the stores I frequent....even other customers. I like random conversations and talking with people. The fact that I mentioned that to her was something that I said joking with her after a minute or two of conversation. It's foreign to me that it seemed out of place or awkward.....I have these types of interactions nearly every time I go out places.

'Should' she have used her employee discount towards me? Probably not....but then again, I didn't hold a gun to her head. I don't know 'why' she chose to go ahead and do it? Again...it was a joke that fit the conversation we had. Maybe she was relived that my wife and I weren't berating her like the two hoosiers that just checked out right in front of us....who were yelling at her and another kid about the 'sale' items being non existent. We engaged her in a nice little banter almost intentionally because it was clear the D Bags in front of us were horrible humans and I personally wanted to cheer the kid up. Anyway.....based off the comments I guess I'm in the minority when  it comes to just talking and making silly jokes with strangers. Whatevs'
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: jingle.boy on April 28, 2021, 11:59:26 AM
Tough crowd indeed. And btw, my comments on the carpets were not judgmental... just my opinion.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: hunnus2000 on April 28, 2021, 12:03:23 PM
After I dropped $24 Gs to put hardwood on my entire main floor, I certainly wasn't going to cover up 25% of it with area carpet(s).  We got a style of wood that was "distressed", so I have no worry about the dogs' nails roughing it up, or denting/scratching it - it already looks that way.

We have a rug to go under my desk, under the formal dining room table, and under the main rooms furniture. All things I don't want sliding around damaging the flooring. There will be plenty of 'open' floor to showcase the new hardwood....it's not something we're too concerned about.


And....man, tough crowd concerning the comment I made to the cashier. I've always engaged employees of the stores I frequent....even other customers. I like random conversations and talking with people. The fact that I mentioned that to her was something that I said joking with her after a minute or two of conversation. It's foreign to me that it seemed out of place or awkward.....I have these types of interactions nearly every time I go out places.

'Should' she have used her employee discount towards me? Probably not....but then again, I didn't hold a gun to her head. I don't know 'why' she chose to go ahead and do it? Again...it was a joke that fit the conversation we had. Maybe she was relived that my wife and I weren't berating her like the two hoosiers that just checked out right in front of us....who were yelling at her and another kid about the 'sale' items being non existent. We engaged her in a nice little banter almost intentionally because it was clear the D Bags in front of us were horrible humans and I personally wanted to cheer the kid up. Anyway.....based off the comments I guess I'm in the minority when  it comes to just talking and making silly jokes with strangers. Whatevs'

Well to be fair, in many restaurants, you can order a one off dish that's not on the menu but the regular customers know about. We fou
nd this out in New Orleans on our honeymoon.
In your case, the store may have an unwritten policy to give people a discount if they ask. I have no idea but because I don't know, I wasn't going to give you shit about it....
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: jingle.boy on April 28, 2021, 02:02:09 PM
We have a rug to go under my desk, under the formal dining room table, and under the main rooms furniture. All things I don't want sliding around damaging the flooring. There will be plenty of 'open' floor to showcase the new hardwood....it's not something we're too concerned about.

Wanted to come back to this.  I got the below for my office chair.  Way better than having a carpet or one of those mats.  A very worthwhile $30 investment.  They're basically roller blade wheels. 

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/81YrTVJgGzL._SX342_.jpg)
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: gmillerdrake on April 28, 2021, 02:03:44 PM
We have a rug to go under my desk, under the formal dining room table, and under the main rooms furniture. All things I don't want sliding around damaging the flooring. There will be plenty of 'open' floor to showcase the new hardwood....it's not something we're too concerned about.

Wanted to come back to this.  I got the below for my office chair.  Way better than having a carpet or one of those mats.  A very worthwhile $30 investment.  They're basically roller blade wheels. 

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/81YrTVJgGzL._SX342_.jpg)

That looks like a sweet solution
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: jingle.boy on April 28, 2021, 02:29:01 PM
Absolutely.  And they're sturdy as fuck.  Two years on with these, and they are no worse for me sitting in this chair about 6 hours a day I'd guess (accounting for all the times I get up for coffee, lunch, nature etc...)
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Spiritus on April 28, 2021, 02:50:46 PM
Bought my first home the other month with my girlfriend.
So we were living 5 years renting then in mid March our washer broke.  We let the landlady know, yada yada, she replaced it. Then she also said she needs to sell condo. Said she wants to sell vacant starting in June. Long story short its been a fucking crazy 1.5 months looking for house in this covid chaos and horrible market.
Rent prices are to me a fucking disgusting ripoff now and renting again was out of the question. Same condo we were renting would now cost almost double. Our landlord never raised our rent and was low from day one. Amazing and fair woman.
Buying even in this high priced market was the best/better option.
So we found "the one" for us and getting keys next Friday. We are happy. And can't wait to just be moved in and moving on with life.
Hmm, I should get back to packing. Procrastinating too much and the woman is giving me hell about more and more as the move in date nears. She will be home soon so I  might as well open up a box and make it loom like I am doing stuff.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Stadler on April 29, 2021, 07:16:01 AM
And....man, tough crowd concerning the comment I made to the cashier. I've always engaged employees of the stores I frequent....even other customers. I like random conversations and talking with people. The fact that I mentioned that to her was something that I said joking with her after a minute or two of conversation. It's foreign to me that it seemed out of place or awkward.....I have these types of interactions nearly every time I go out places.


That's me too, Gary.  I love that.  When I travel for work, I'll almost never just sit in my hotel.  After work, after dinner (or sometimes for dinner) I'll grab a book and go sit in a local bar.  There's always someone to talk to, and - at least before COVID - the VAST majority - like 95% or better - are willing to chat with you.  You meet some interesting people.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Skeever on April 29, 2021, 12:18:04 PM
In the middle of a ReFi currently. It's stressful but it should be for the best. Still I don't think I'll feel totally at ease until that first statement arrives and I see that it indeed is what I've agreed to.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: wolfking on April 30, 2021, 06:03:19 PM
After I dropped $24 Gs to put hardwood on my entire main floor, I certainly wasn't going to cover up 25% of it with area carpet(s).  We got a style of wood that was "distressed", so I have no worry about the dogs' nails roughing it up, or denting/scratching it - it already looks that way.

We have a rug to go under my desk, under the formal dining room table, and under the main rooms furniture. All things I don't want sliding around damaging the flooring. There will be plenty of 'open' floor to showcase the new hardwood....it's not something we're too concerned about.


And....man, tough crowd concerning the comment I made to the cashier. I've always engaged employees of the stores I frequent....even other customers. I like random conversations and talking with people. The fact that I mentioned that to her was something that I said joking with her after a minute or two of conversation. It's foreign to me that it seemed out of place or awkward.....I have these types of interactions nearly every time I go out places.

'Should' she have used her employee discount towards me? Probably not....but then again, I didn't hold a gun to her head. I don't know 'why' she chose to go ahead and do it? Again...it was a joke that fit the conversation we had. Maybe she was relived that my wife and I weren't berating her like the two hoosiers that just checked out right in front of us....who were yelling at her and another kid about the 'sale' items being non existent. We engaged her in a nice little banter almost intentionally because it was clear the D Bags in front of us were horrible humans and I personally wanted to cheer the kid up. Anyway.....based off the comments I guess I'm in the minority when  it comes to just talking and making silly jokes with strangers. Whatevs'

It's weird, if you ever came across me in public, you would genuinely think I'm the most rudest and arrogant prick you've ever come across with.  Yet if I were the cashier at work, I'd have a full length conversation with you about anything, without the discount. 
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Cool Chris on April 30, 2021, 09:10:13 PM
Bought my first home the other month with my girlfriend.

Congrats! Looking back on it, it seemed like I didn't fully appreciate the purchase as much as I do now.

In the middle of a ReFi currently. It's stressful but it should be for the best. Still I don't think I'll feel totally at ease until that first statement arrives and I see that it indeed is what I've agreed to.

Did mine a couple weeks ago. Thought it was a pretty simple process. Notary even came to our house to sign so we didn't have to go anywhere.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: hunnus2000 on May 01, 2021, 07:49:53 AM
I've gone through a couple of Refi's. Painless and all done through the mail but I didn't need a notary. These days, it should all be done electronically with digital signatures.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Cool Chris on May 01, 2021, 09:15:17 AM
There are, and maybe always will be, some dogs that require "wet ink."
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: lordxizor on May 01, 2021, 06:01:50 PM
I had to do my refi with a notary in person. Super annoying. It should all be e-signature.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: ReaperKK on May 02, 2021, 07:37:23 AM
We have a rug to go under my desk, under the formal dining room table, and under the main rooms furniture. All things I don't want sliding around damaging the flooring. There will be plenty of 'open' floor to showcase the new hardwood....it's not something we're too concerned about.

Wanted to come back to this.  I got the below for my office chair.  Way better than having a carpet or one of those mats.  A very worthwhile $30 investment.  They're basically roller blade wheels. 

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/81YrTVJgGzL._SX342_.jpg)

That looks like a sweet solution

What is the benefit of the rollerblade wheels? Is it to protect your floor from getting damaged? I'd love to get rid of the area rug in my office.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: jingle.boy on May 03, 2021, 06:01:03 AM
That’s it precisely Kay. Traditional chair wheels will scratch the shit out of a hardwood floor. These wheels have done nothing to my floor in 2 years.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: ReaperKK on May 03, 2021, 06:37:54 AM
Sold! Can't wait to get them.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: gmillerdrake on May 03, 2021, 10:30:56 AM
In the middle of a ReFi currently. It's stressful but it should be for the best. Still I don't think I'll feel totally at ease until that first statement arrives and I see that it indeed is what I've agreed to.

Same. We ReFi'd a couple months back and the whole process just made me uneasy. Everything was on the up and up....but it's so much personal information and then the amount of documents you sign....I just feel like they could have slipped anything into those forms and I wouldn't have known.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: jingle.boy on May 03, 2021, 11:14:52 AM
In the middle of a ReFi currently. It's stressful but it should be for the best. Still I don't think I'll feel totally at ease until that first statement arrives and I see that it indeed is what I've agreed to.

Same. We ReFi'd a couple months back and the whole process just made me uneasy. Everything was on the up and up....but it's so much personal information and then the amount of documents you sign....I just feel like they could have slipped anything into those forms and I wouldn't have known.

Like what?  Brussel sprouts?  :lol
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: gmillerdrake on May 03, 2021, 11:45:52 AM
In the middle of a ReFi currently. It's stressful but it should be for the best. Still I don't think I'll feel totally at ease until that first statement arrives and I see that it indeed is what I've agreed to.

Same. We ReFi'd a couple months back and the whole process just made me uneasy. Everything was on the up and up....but it's so much personal information and then the amount of documents you sign....I just feel like they could have slipped anything into those forms and I wouldn't have known.

Like what?  Brussel sprouts?  :lol

Exactly. I don't know.....no matter how many times I read crap like that I feel like I've missed something .
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Orbert on May 23, 2021, 07:07:24 AM
Inspired by the "Thermostat Simulator" in the humor thread


When I was growing up, it was always too cold or too hot in our house (to me).  If it was too cold in the winter, my mom would say "Put a sweater on!" and if it was too hot she'd say "Go outside!"  I never understood that one.  It's like 80 in the house but it's 90 outside, so I guess I'll stay inside.  We were all about saving money on heating and cooling.  My dad even got one of those fancy programmable thermostats so it would change the temp at night vs during the day.  That way it could always be too cold or too hot in our house, automatically!

Now I have my own place, and we did the same thing for a while, always being careful about the thermostat to save money.  Then one day I remembered one other thing my mom used to say.  "When you pay the bills, you can set it however you want."  That's right!  So now I make it as cool as I want in the summer, or as warm and cozy as I want in the winter.  My heating bill is higher in the winter and my electric bill is higher in the summer, but I don't care.  That's the cost of doing business.  I'll pay an extra $30 a month or whatever to be comfortable in my own home.

That's a benefit of being a homeowner.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Stadler on May 23, 2021, 08:39:46 AM
Inspired by the "Thermostat Simulator" in the humor thread


When I was growing up, it was always too cold or too hot in our house (to me).  If it was too cold in the winter, my mom would say "Put a sweater on!" and if it was too hot she'd say "Go outside!"  I never understood that one.  It's like 80 in the house but it's 90 outside, so I guess I'll stay inside.  We were all about saving money on heating and cooling.  My dad even got one of those fancy programmable thermostats so it would change the temp at night vs during the day.  That way it could always be too cold or too hot in our house, automatically!

Now I have my own place, and we did the same thing for a while, always being careful about the thermostat to save money.  Then one day I remembered one other thing my mom used to say.  "When you pay the bills, you can set it however you want."  That's right!  So now I make it as cool as I want in the summer, or as warm and cozy as I want in the winter.  My heating bill is higher in the winter and my electric bill is higher in the summer, but I don't care.  That's the cost of doing business.  I'll pay an extra $30 a month or whatever to be comfortable in my own home.

That's a benefit of being a homeowner.

HAHAHA, I love that.

I just had this conversation with my kid, who's getting her own apartment here shortly.  You get to decide, but you have to cover the consequences.   
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: gmillerdrake on May 23, 2021, 09:21:37 AM
Inspired by the "Thermostat Simulator" in the humor thread


When I was growing up, it was always too cold or too hot in our house (to me).  If it was too cold in the winter, my mom would say "Put a sweater on!" and if it was too hot she'd say "Go outside!"  I never understood that one.  It's like 80 in the house but it's 90 outside, so I guess I'll stay inside.  We were all about saving money on heating and cooling.  My dad even got one of those fancy programmable thermostats so it would change the temp at night vs during the day.  That way it could always be too cold or too hot in our house, automatically!

Now I have my own place, and we did the same thing for a while, always being careful about the thermostat to save money.  Then one day I remembered one other thing my mom used to say.  "When you pay the bills, you can set it however you want."  That's right!  So now I make it as cool as I want in the summer, or as warm and cozy as I want in the winter.  My heating bill is higher in the winter and my electric bill is higher in the summer, but I don't care.  That's the cost of doing business.  I'll pay an extra $30 a month or whatever to be comfortable in my own home.

That's a benefit of being a homeowner.

Yep....same here.

Do you guys have 'Budget Billing' available through your energy provider? Where they average the years cost out and charge you the same amount each month....at the end of they cycle the cost will adjust according to the last cycles usage? We live in close to 3300 sq. ft. and I'm currently paying $180 a month for my AC/Heating. Since we've been here in 2014 it's never been over $200 a month....usually fluctuates between $160-200.

We're a 70-72 degree house in the summer and 76-78 degree house in the winter. What I really miss about this house is having an attic fan. Due to the way we had loft ceilings built on our second floor there's no spot to put one. This is the first home I've been in where I didn't have one. I freaking love a good attic fan night. Get that cool night air circulating through the house.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Cool Chris on May 23, 2021, 09:58:40 AM
76-78? Dang. Mine is never set to more than 70 in the coldest of times. It is usually at 68 throughout the year.

Been without hot water for a week now. Water heater stopped working. Did some basic troubleshooting, replaced a couple parts. I try to address smple problems and save $$ on professional service calls when I can. Not this time. Apparently Rheem says they have had problems with the unit we have (that is less than a year old) so they are covering the replacement. I could handle the install but since they are covering it I'll let a pro handle it this time. The downside ismwe gotta wait till Wednesday.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: cramx3 on May 24, 2021, 11:38:51 AM
yeah, my parents would say similar to me growing up if I was too hot or too cold "do you pay the bills?" and "you can set it to whatever you want when you have your own house" and well yeah, I sure do! Usually 69 in the winter and 78 in the summer.  Ill crank up the AC for bedtime in the summer though, I need it cool to sleep comfortably. 
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Stadler on May 24, 2021, 01:17:10 PM
And then some of us go and get married and that ship sails again.  :)   I've been married twice, and while the two women are generally not alike, they both tend to like to live in meat lockers in the summer, and saunas in the winter.  :) :)
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Chino on May 24, 2021, 01:25:42 PM
78? Holy shit. I don't think I've ever seen my thermostat above 72, and that's when I had the flu  :lol Any hotter than that and I'd be dripping sweat. Come summer time, I get my house as close to 60 as my air conditioners can get me.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Skeever on May 24, 2021, 01:48:14 PM
We keep the thermostat around 72 year round. I don't think it's much more expensive than leaving the windows open and then only having the thermostat kick on when you can't bear it anymore. The whole system works more efficiently when you keep the temperature pretty steady.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: cramx3 on May 24, 2021, 02:23:43 PM
78? Holy shit. I don't think I've ever seen my thermostat above 72, and that's when I had the flu  :lol Any hotter than that and I'd be dripping sweat. Come summer time, I get my house as close to 60 as my air conditioners can get me.

My central air unit is actually overpowered for my house so when it's running, it feels colder than the temperature reading.  Also, I spend more time in the basement these days where it's always cooler.  I just need it really cold for bed time and I do take into considerations the cost like my father before me  :lol
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: kirksnosehair on May 24, 2021, 02:33:07 PM
Holy shit 76 - 78 degrees in the winter?!  :eek    I have never heard of anyone keeping their house that warm.  I mean I know you live in the south so your heating bills are probably peanuts compared to mine but we keep the thermostat on 68 during winter days and we turn it down to 62 at night.  In the summertime we keep the house at 72 degrees during the day when we're both at work but when we come home it goes back down to 70 and when we go to bed we set it to 65.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: jingle.boy on May 24, 2021, 04:15:40 PM
We're 72-74 in the winter; and we aim to keep the house below 80 in the summer by jacking that sucker down to 72 overnight, then just let it gradually rise during the day.  That helped on the bills when we had Time of Use pricing, but now the provincial government mandated the option to have a fixed rate.  Based on our usage, the fixed rate only costs less than 10 dollars a month more - and the convenience to run whatever we want (laundry, dishwasher, AC ...) whenever we want is more than worth it.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Grappler on May 24, 2021, 06:47:56 PM
I've been in my house for 12 years.  For all 12 of those years, our attic fan has had a giant rattle.  You'd turn it on and it would be loud.  You could hear it two floors below - I've always just figured that's what it sounds like.

Yesterday, I was up on the roof cleaning the gutters and the attic fan was on.  I was watching it bounce and saw that one side was nailed down.  I experimented by holding it down or pressing down on the shingles on one side of it and the bouncing was greatly reduced. 

For 12 years, I have been using the attic fan while only one side was actually nailed down to the roof.  The other half of the mount was just loose under the shingles and causing the rattle.  Went up there today, ran three screws into it as close as I could get them to the fan and covered them with big globs of silicone caulk.  The fan is so much quieter now - I just never realized how bad it was. 

Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: King Postwhore on May 24, 2021, 06:48:10 PM
We're vampires.   68 during the winter and it turns down to 62 at night. I'd rather wrap up in a blanket.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Cool Chris on May 24, 2021, 09:51:38 PM
We're 72-74 in the winter; and we aim to keep the house below 80 in the summer by jacking that sucker down to 72 overnight, then just let it gradually rise during the day.  That helped on the bills when we had Time of Use pricing, but now the provincial government mandated the option to have a fixed rate.  Based on our usage, the fixed rate only costs less than 10 dollars a month more - and the convenience to run whatever we want (laundry, dishwasher, AC ...) whenever we want is more than worth it.

You aim to keep the house below 80?!?! If my house gets above 72 I start losing my mind!

And what the heck is up with " the convenience to run whatever we want (laundry, dishwasher, AC ...)" I've never heard of "Time of Use" Pricing or Fixed Rate Pricing.

We're vampires.   68 during the winter and it turns down to 62 at night. I'd rather wrap up in a blanket.

68 and 64 for me.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Stadler on May 25, 2021, 05:22:30 AM
78? Holy shit. I don't think I've ever seen my thermostat above 72, and that's when I had the flu  :lol Any hotter than that and I'd be dripping sweat. Come summer time, I get my house as close to 60 as my air conditioners can get me.

My central air unit is actually overpowered for my house so when it's running, it feels colder than the temperature reading.  Also, I spend more time in the basement these days where it's always cooler.  I just need it really cold for bed time and I do take into considerations the cost like my father before me  :lol

That's something I've suspected for a while now in my current house:  the number is actually a relative number and not the "actual temperature".   I can't really prove it - I guess I could take the temperature somewhere in the house, but that's so dependent on where you are (I have an open-ish floor plan on the first floor, and a more traditional layout on the second floor) that I could get four different readings from four different locations.   I really sort of judge where I'm at by how often the boiler and the air handling unit are on.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: jingle.boy on May 25, 2021, 05:51:20 AM
And what the heck is up with " the convenience to run whatever we want (laundry, dishwasher, AC ...)" I've never heard of "Time of Use" Pricing or Fixed Rate Pricing.

About 10 years ago, the electric companies replaced all meters with "smart" meters, so they know the usage by the hour.  In efforts to manage demand (and increase profits no doubt), there are low-mid-high tiers to the pricing:

As an example:
(https://npei.ca/userfiles/TOU_SUMMER_RATES.JPG)

These are the summer rates; winter flips the mid and on-peak times.  As you can see, the on-peak is more than double the off-peak.  It wasn't until the pandemic that the gov't mandated a fixed rate option - which is slightly higher than mid-peak

So yeah, if I was still on time-of-use pricing, it would be very expensive running the appliance hogs (washer/dryer, dishwasher, AC, pool filter) during the day.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: ReaperKK on May 25, 2021, 05:59:14 AM
I could never do 70+ degrees in the house. My mom keeps it at 74 and it's a sauna when I visit. We keep our thermostat at 68 however when the wife leaves to travel for work I crank it down to 65.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Chino on May 25, 2021, 06:41:26 AM
78? Holy shit. I don't think I've ever seen my thermostat above 72, and that's when I had the flu  :lol Any hotter than that and I'd be dripping sweat. Come summer time, I get my house as close to 60 as my air conditioners can get me.

My central air unit is actually overpowered for my house so when it's running, it feels colder than the temperature reading.  Also, I spend more time in the basement these days where it's always cooler.  I just need it really cold for bed time and I do take into considerations the cost like my father before me  :lol

That's something I've suspected for a while now in my current house:  the number is actually a relative number and not the "actual temperature".   I can't really prove it - I guess I could take the temperature somewhere in the house, but that's so dependent on where you are (I have an open-ish floor plan on the first floor, and a more traditional layout on the second floor) that I could get four different readings from four different locations.   I really sort of judge where I'm at by how often the boiler and the air handling unit are on.

Fill up a dozen glasses of water and set them up all over the house. Put them in different rooms near windows, appliances, heaters, coffee tables, etc and let them sit for a few hours so their temperature equalizes to that of their surroundings. Walk around with a meat thermometer and check them all. You'll find the hot/cold zones of your house with ease and have an actual representation of the temperature swings around your home.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Stadler on May 25, 2021, 06:54:27 AM
78? Holy shit. I don't think I've ever seen my thermostat above 72, and that's when I had the flu  :lol Any hotter than that and I'd be dripping sweat. Come summer time, I get my house as close to 60 as my air conditioners can get me.

My central air unit is actually overpowered for my house so when it's running, it feels colder than the temperature reading.  Also, I spend more time in the basement these days where it's always cooler.  I just need it really cold for bed time and I do take into considerations the cost like my father before me  :lol

That's something I've suspected for a while now in my current house:  the number is actually a relative number and not the "actual temperature".   I can't really prove it - I guess I could take the temperature somewhere in the house, but that's so dependent on where you are (I have an open-ish floor plan on the first floor, and a more traditional layout on the second floor) that I could get four different readings from four different locations.   I really sort of judge where I'm at by how often the boiler and the air handling unit are on.

Fill up a dozen glasses of water and set them up all over the house. Put them in different rooms near windows, appliances, heaters, coffee tables, etc and let them sit for a few hours so their temperature equalizes to that of their surroundings. Walk around with a meat thermometer and check them all. You'll find the hot/cold zones of your house with ease and have an actual representation of the temperature swings around your home.

Genius.  I'm moving in July, and I'm going to do that.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: cramx3 on May 25, 2021, 07:44:02 AM
78? Holy shit. I don't think I've ever seen my thermostat above 72, and that's when I had the flu  :lol Any hotter than that and I'd be dripping sweat. Come summer time, I get my house as close to 60 as my air conditioners can get me.

My central air unit is actually overpowered for my house so when it's running, it feels colder than the temperature reading.  Also, I spend more time in the basement these days where it's always cooler.  I just need it really cold for bed time and I do take into considerations the cost like my father before me  :lol

That's something I've suspected for a while now in my current house:  the number is actually a relative number and not the "actual temperature".   I can't really prove it - I guess I could take the temperature somewhere in the house, but that's so dependent on where you are (I have an open-ish floor plan on the first floor, and a more traditional layout on the second floor) that I could get four different readings from four different locations.   I really sort of judge where I'm at by how often the boiler and the air handling unit are on.

My house is pretty small, I think it just has to do with being near a vent and you'll really feel it vs. being in the middle of the room.  All the vents are close to the couches and my bed, I don't typically chill in the dead center of my living room or office and of course the kitchen is typically hotter than the rest of the house as there's only one vent and if I'm in the kitchen for an extended time, it's because I'm cooking and creating heat.  I did attempt to put a ceiling fan in there but the ceiling is too low, if you were tall, you'd be in danger.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: kirksnosehair on May 25, 2021, 01:53:07 PM
We're vampires.   68 during the winter and it turns down to 62 at night. I'd rather wrap up in a blanket.


I'm with you, man! 
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Phoenix87x on July 31, 2021, 07:57:02 AM
With rates being low, is anyone planning on refinancing?
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: T-ski on July 31, 2021, 09:11:09 AM
We’ve lived in our house for almost 17 years, saved up enough to finish the balance on our mortgage and now have zero house payments for hopefully the rest of our lives.

Feels good man.

(https://i.imgur.com/DnJQccq.jpg)
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Cool Chris on July 31, 2021, 10:05:00 AM
With rates being low, is anyone planning on refinancing?

I did about this time last year. Will save me tens of thousands and will be paid off sooner.

T-ski, love it. Except for the lawn... if those are weeds, get on that!!!  :)
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: gmillerdrake on July 31, 2021, 10:30:53 AM
We’ve lived in our house for almost 17 years, saved up enough to finish the balance on our mortgage and now have zero house payments for hopefully the rest of our lives.

Feels good man.

(https://i.imgur.com/DnJQccq.jpg)


That's awesome!!!! I can't imagine what that feeling must feel like!!!!
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: TAC on July 31, 2021, 10:31:04 AM


T-ski, love it. Except for the lawn... if those are weeds, get on that!!!  :)

You wouldn’t want to see my lawn.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: gmillerdrake on July 31, 2021, 10:32:29 AM
With rates being low, is anyone planning on refinancing?

We refinanced last fall....definitely worth it. It dropped our payment by $530 dollars.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: T-ski on July 31, 2021, 10:47:42 AM
With rates being low, is anyone planning on refinancing?

I did about this time last year. Will save me tens of thousands and will be paid off sooner.

T-ski, love it. Except for the lawn... if those are weeds, get on that!!!  :)

Believe it or not, the lawn looks better now then when we moved in so I take that as a win.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Chino on July 31, 2021, 10:51:41 AM
With rates being low, is anyone planning on refinancing?

I've been debating it. I'm 7.5 years into a 30 year note, but my interest rate is only 3.25% as it is. I have a PMI payment of $140ish a month that I wouldn't mind getting rid of though.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Cool Chris on July 31, 2021, 11:36:12 AM
I moved from a 30 to a 15 year term, which raised my monthly rate a bit but will save me over the long haul.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: jingle.boy on August 01, 2021, 06:06:00 AM
We’ve lived in our house for almost 17 years, saved up enough to finish the balance on our mortgage and now have zero house payments for hopefully the rest of our lives.

Feels good man.

That's awesome!!!! I can't imagine what that feeling must feel like!!!!

I can!  :neverusethis:  You'll get there one day Gary.

T-ski... welcome to the club  :hifive:

However, mrs.jingle and I really want (need) to re-model our kitchen - it's horribly small (for our purposes/liking), and directly attached to the main floor living room (open concept).  Anyone watching TV either has to pause or crank the volume whenever someone else is in the kitchen doing anything even as simple as running the tap.  So, what was initially just planned to be a kitchen (only) remodel is beginning to morph into a bigger renovation, adding a new master bedroom as a partial 2nd level (we're in a bungalow at the moment).  We're gonna have a designer in to discuss options and costs in a couple of weeks.

Technically, we'd still be "mortgage" free, but we'd be debt financing it against our LOC.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: cramx3 on August 02, 2021, 10:23:15 AM
With rates being low, is anyone planning on refinancing?

I've been debating it. I'm 7.5 years into a 30 year note, but my interest rate is only 3.25% as it is. I have a PMI payment of $140ish a month that I wouldn't mind getting rid of though.

I'm basically the same.  I keep getting mail from lenders telling me to call them to do this.  I really think I should, but I may want to do this:

I moved from a 30 to a 15 year term, which raised my monthly rate a bit but will save me over the long haul.

I kind of don't want to start another 30 year count down.  If I could get a 15 year note that when considering a lower rate and no PMI, maybe it could be similar to what I currently pay per month.  I really need to speak to one of these people who keep mailing me.

The zillow estimate on my house is wayyyy more than what I paid for it on my mortgage, so I think that also might significantly help me if it gets re-appraised. 
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: hunnus2000 on August 03, 2021, 07:57:46 AM
To those of you on the fence about refinancing to a 15 year note - DO IT!!

Your monthly payment will not go up that much and it's a quick way to build up equity. I'm not sure what the requirements for PMI is these days but it's pretty much a scam IMO.

Also, there's some calculation that if you pay one extra payment per year, you can payoff the house in something like 10 years (or something like that).

There's nothing like being a true home owner!  :tup
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Chino on August 03, 2021, 08:40:01 AM
Also, there's some calculation that if you pay one extra payment per year, you can payoff the house in something like 10 years (or something like that).

There's nothing like being a true home owner!  :tup


I've never done out all the math, but I throw an extra $100 at my payment every month. It knocks 3 or 4 principal payments (pending what my current taxes are) off every year.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Chino on September 02, 2021, 06:08:31 AM
6" of water in the basement and two flooded cannabis tents. Joy!
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: jingle.boy on September 02, 2021, 07:52:32 AM
6" of water in the basement and two flooded cannabis tents. Joy!

Oh snap!!  That's some nasty looking flooding going on down there.  Hope your insurance isn't going to dick you around.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: cramx3 on September 02, 2021, 09:27:40 AM
My sump pumps were put to work last night (and still going before I left for work this morning).  My local area was fortunate but damn a lot of the surrounding areas are destroyed from the flooding.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Chino on September 07, 2021, 05:55:38 AM
6" of water in the basement and two flooded cannabis tents. Joy!

Oh snap!!  That's some nasty looking flooding going on down there.  Hope your insurance isn't going to dick you around.

Turns out I'm not covered for flooding below ground level. Luckily the only thing that seems effed is my hot water heater. One of my best buds is an HVAC technician by trade and he stopped over on Sunday. We had the thing apart and he was able to diagnose the problem. I'm struggling to find the part in stock anywhere. I'm guessing it's pretty in demand seeing as most people I know had some degree of flooding issues last week.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Stadler on September 07, 2021, 06:32:54 AM
I don't know what "part" you're needing but when I bought my house in July, I knew going in that my AC didn't work, and I gambled that it was something fixable.   Turns out it was coolant and a controller board.   They filled the coolant on site, but I had to wait almost two weeks for the controller board - a standard part on every system that has a thermostat - to be back-ordered.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Chino on September 07, 2021, 06:34:34 AM
Was that your recent move? I wonder if it was because of the chip shortage.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Stadler on September 07, 2021, 06:41:10 AM
Was that your recent move? I wonder if it was because of the chip shortage.

Yeah. This last July.   I think it was exactly that.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Harmony on October 19, 2021, 02:34:34 PM
I looked around a bit but didn't see any thread about home remodeling.  Apologies if this isn't in the right spot but...

We are starting the 2nd phase of our remodeling adventures now that we are officially empty nesters.  One of the bedrooms upstairs is being turned into a workout/yoga studio.  One issue we've had with the rooms upstairs is that basically the folks downstairs can hear every footfall.  Imagine what it sounds like when a 200 pound man is doing jumping jacks or I'm on the treadmill.  LOUD.

Our contractor advised us to look into cork flooring. And so far, I'm pretty impressed with the looks of what I'm seeing online and the fact that it is a good choice for low impact to the environment.  Reasonably priced, good cushioning.  It will definitely be a great sound buffer too.

Has anyone here worked with cork flooring and if so, what would you say are the pros/cons?
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Stadler on October 19, 2021, 02:55:06 PM
I'm more interested in the sound part; I have an office that is unfinished, but right below the kitchen.  I'm going to refinish it over the winter (I hope) but I have to deal with the fact that whenever my 250-lb. step son and/or the dogs are in the kitchen it's like trying to work at a NASCAR race.    :tdwn

As for cork, I've never had it in my home(s), but I know it to be soft, and so if you have work-out equipment and what not, you may need additional coverings, whether it's a mat or a rug or something.  I think it can last pretty long if you take care of it, but that could mean refinishing if the wear becomes noticeable.  I'd be worried about it swelling too, if it gets wet. 
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Cool Chris on October 20, 2021, 09:46:09 PM
I can ask the guys at work. I've only been at it for a couple years, but I've never heard of cork flooring. Sound between floors has never come up on any of our projects, except for one family, who insisted on 5/8 drywall and rock wool insulation throughout their basement, to dampen the noise as much as possible.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Harmony on October 21, 2021, 06:49:30 PM
So apparently - like everything else - cork flooring is not readily available right now.  So we are going with a vinyl overlay on top of cork.  Kind of a 2 in 1.  Hopefully it will help with the sound issue.  We should know by January so I will report back.

I'm kinda bummed about not getting to consider it because I thought it sounded really cool.  This will look good though.  I haven't gotten the price yet.  I seem to have a knack for picking out the most expensive shit.  I'm certain this won't be the exception.   :lol
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: jingle.boy on October 22, 2021, 04:42:38 AM
I've got these in my workout room, and in another storage room in our basement (which is currently doubling as jingle.son's 'school' room).  They're laid right on the concrete floor and are absolutely fantastic at insulating from the cold of the concrete.  Obviously, I've got no idea how they are at insulating from sound/footfalls below, but given how good they are with the temperature, I've got to believe they'd be pretty good at absorbing sound and vibration.

(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/817JE9g3iJL._AC_SX425_.jpg)

If you go this route, I highly suggest the 3/4" thickness.  You can get 'em on Amazon.  They were about $2CAD/sq ft.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Chino on October 22, 2021, 06:15:06 AM
I've got those things all over. They're great! I use them for kneeling on whenever I'm working on stuff around the house or servicing something like my snow blower.

Before messing up my back and getting away from the rower and heavy weights, I had them in my workout space. They were excellent.
(https://scontent-lga3-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.18169-9/10372595_10155113525010111_9126406233427975030_n.jpg?_nc_cat=106&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=ba80b0&_nc_ohc=FMekGRfPHfwAX8_bnzd&_nc_ht=scontent-lga3-2.xx&oh=bc9ae78901e5783fd48d2d680d1e41b3&oe=6199D3DF)

This is what the space looks like now  :lol
(https://scontent-lga3-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/119697168_10164107836725111_1584009886844939471_n.jpg?_nc_cat=104&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=jBxFRYJ6tIEAX-UxbgL&_nc_ht=scontent-lga3-2.xx&oh=faf089ae82d3a47318e89f2e8ef7b25c&oe=6196BD74)
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Stadler on October 22, 2021, 06:43:31 AM
I've got these in my workout room, and in another storage room in our basement (which is currently doubling as jingle.son's 'school' room).  They're laid right on the concrete floor and are absolutely fantastic at insulating from the cold of the concrete.  Obviously, I've got no idea how they are at insulating from sound/footfalls below, but given how good they are with the temperature, I've got to believe they'd be pretty good at absorbing sound and vibration.

(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/817JE9g3iJL._AC_SX425_.jpg)

If you go this route, I highly suggest the 3/4" thickness.  You can get 'em on Amazon.  They were about $2CAD/sq ft.

That looks like the stuff that is on the floor at most hockey/ice-skating rinks.  It will last just about forever under normal use. 
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Stadler on October 22, 2021, 06:45:18 AM
I've got those things all over. They're great! I use them for kneeling on whenever I'm working on stuff around the house or servicing something like my snow blower.

Before messing up my back and getting away from the rower and heavy weights, I had them in my workout space. They were excellent.
(https://scontent-lga3-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.18169-9/10372595_10155113525010111_9126406233427975030_n.jpg?_nc_cat=106&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=ba80b0&_nc_ohc=FMekGRfPHfwAX8_bnzd&_nc_ht=scontent-lga3-2.xx&oh=bc9ae78901e5783fd48d2d680d1e41b3&oe=6199D3DF)

This is what the space looks like now  :lol
(https://scontent-lga3-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/119697168_10164107836725111_1584009886844939471_n.jpg?_nc_cat=104&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=jBxFRYJ6tIEAX-UxbgL&_nc_ht=scontent-lga3-2.xx&oh=faf089ae82d3a47318e89f2e8ef7b25c&oe=6196BD74)

What is that on the floor of the new space?  I like the look of that.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: jingle.boy on October 22, 2021, 06:46:29 AM
That's a nice bench (the workout one).  I wish I had one with a leg curl attachment.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Chino on October 22, 2021, 06:55:49 AM

What is that on the floor of the new space?  I like the look of that.

I'm guessing 30+ year old linoleum that I've scrubbed clean maybe 3 times in the 7 years I've been in the house  :lol

That's a nice bench (the workout one).  I wish I had one with a leg curl attachment.

I got that whole setup with weights for $100 a couple years ago and sold it all for $450 at the beginning of Covid.

This might be a good time to find that sort of thing used online. Lots of people bought stuff when the gyms closed and are looking to dump it as they get back into the gyms.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Harmony on October 22, 2021, 08:34:32 AM
No offense Jingle, but my flooring will have a bit more of an esthetic look.  Think yoga/dance studio with a treadmill and stationary bike and maybe a few hand weights.  Less 24 hour fitness.   :P

But hey - we all have our own visions and as long as it gets the job done in regard to health and fitness, then it is a win/win.


(https://i.imgur.com/YPRaxRq.jpg)
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: jingle.boy on October 22, 2021, 11:19:41 AM
No offense Jingle, but my flooring will have a bit more of an esthetic look.  Think yoga/dance studio with a treadmill and stationary bike and maybe a few hand weights.  Less 24 hour fitness.   :P

Well then, you'd get a chuckle out of my setup (https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=44215.msg2725875#msg2725875))
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Harmony on October 22, 2021, 11:39:32 AM
Hey you did a great job on that!  It looks so much better than the before photos.

Nice equipment too.   ;) :-*
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: jingle.boy on October 22, 2021, 12:42:50 PM
Hey you did a great job on that!  It looks so much better than the before photos.

Nice equipment too.   ;) :-*

:heybaby:

 :rollin
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: ReaperKK on January 19, 2022, 02:53:12 PM
With rates being low, is anyone planning on refinancing?

I just saw this and my wife and I refinanced at the end of last year. We wanted to do some home improvements and we did a cash out refi. Our original loan was 3.5% for 30 years, we have about 25 years left on our loan so we refi'd to 20 years at 2.83% and took 60k out for various projects. Our monthly payment went up only $260 a month.

Speaking of home projects our first project started. The first floor is getting all new floors, we are getting rid of the engineered hardwood and bought some vinyl plank. I feel bad for the dudes ripping the old floor up, apparently the glue used was intense and what should've taken a day is taken 3 days to tear it up. So much cursing coming from downstairs :lol

I've been buying lunch for them daily to hopefully ease the suckiness that is our floor lol.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: jingle.boy on January 19, 2022, 02:57:18 PM
With rates being low, is anyone planning on refinancing?

I just saw this and my wife and I refinanced at the end of last year. We wanted to do some home improvements and we did a cash out refi. Our original loan was 3.5% for 30 years, we have about 25 years left on our loan so we refi'd to 20 years at 2.83% and took 60k out for various projects. Our monthly payment went up only $260 a month.

Speaking of home projects our first project started. The first floor is getting all new floors, we are getting rid of the engineered hardwood and bought some vinyl plank. I feel bad for the dudes ripping the old floor up, apparently the glue used was intense and what should've taken a day is taken 3 days to tear it up. So much cursing coming from downstairs :lol

I've been buying lunch for them daily to hopefully ease the suckiness that is our floor lol.

So long as they didn't give you a fixed price quote, I'm sure they'll manage.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Cool Chris on January 19, 2022, 06:25:05 PM
Working in remodeling, I can say there are few things that will cause the profanity to fly like starting to demo a floor and realizing it is glued down.

We put in vinyl plank at most of our jobs. I installed it in our bathrooms last year. Great way to enhance a room without blowing up your budget (or your back).
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: ReaperKK on January 19, 2022, 06:39:20 PM
Yea, we initially wanted to just lay the plank over our existing floor but because it's textured the manufacturer won't warranty the floor and we have a high chance for moisture and mold issues.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: lordxizor on February 07, 2022, 05:02:21 AM
We had an offer on a new house accepted on the 31st. Busted our asses to get our house on the market on the 4th. And had 6 offers by the 6th. Absolutely crazy times in the real estate market right now. I'm happy with what we're getting for our current home as we plan a bunch of updates in the new house right away. Looking forward to a new chapter in the xizor household.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: gmillerdrake on February 07, 2022, 06:54:56 AM
We had an offer on a new house accepted on the 31st. Busted our asses to get our house on the market on the 4th. And had 6 offers by the 6th. Absolutely crazy times in the real estate market right now. I'm happy with what we're getting for our current home as we plan a bunch of updates in the new house right away. Looking forward to a new chapter in the xizor household.

That's exciting! Congrats and good luck on finding the right spot for your next chapter to begin!  :tup
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: lordxizor on February 07, 2022, 09:31:02 AM
We had an offer on a new house accepted on the 31st. Busted our asses to get our house on the market on the 4th. And had 6 offers by the 6th. Absolutely crazy times in the real estate market right now. I'm happy with what we're getting for our current home as we plan a bunch of updates in the new house right away. Looking forward to a new chapter in the xizor household.

That's exciting! Congrats and good luck on finding the right spot for your next chapter to begin!  :tup
We're moving a whopping 15 miles away to a slightly larger house with a little over an acre of land. With 4 kids we need more room to breathe!

Now I get to play the game today of working with two different mortgage lenders and trying to get them to reduce their closing costs to get a better deal. I'm questioning whether it's worth too much effort to save a few hundred bucks on closing costs when we're talking about nearly half a million dollars for the house. But a couple hundred bucks for a few minutes of effort isn't so bad I guess.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: gmillerdrake on February 08, 2022, 07:04:03 PM
I just spent an hour cleaning the house because the cleaning lady is coming tomorrow? This is what my wife asked me and the boys to do. Makes zero sense but you have to pick your battles. Not the hill I’ll die on today.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Cool Chris on February 08, 2022, 07:46:34 PM
Have had this conversation at home a few times. My wife grew up with a cleaning lady at her house, I did not. I thought the appropriate course would be to leave the place a pig sty and pay the lady to take care of it, but she said the lady's job was to clean, not tidy. Meaning, for example, vacuuming the floor, not picking up all the crap first to get to it. So her family had to "clean," or tidy up, before the gal could "clean." Made sense when she explained it.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: TAC on February 08, 2022, 07:54:16 PM
I just spent an hour cleaning the house because the cleaning lady is coming tomorrow? This is what my wife asked me and the boys to do. Makes zero sense but you have to pick your battles. Not the hill I’ll die on today.

 :lol


A few years ago, we used someone to help clean the house. This was when my wife was taking on more responsibility at work, and my job was not forgiving at all, along with ...our kids. My wife would be freaking out..."The cleaning lady is coming tomorrow, we have to straighten this place out." :lol
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: gmillerdrake on February 08, 2022, 08:35:35 PM
Have had this conversation at home a few times. My wife grew up with a cleaning lady at her house, I did not. I thought the appropriate course would be to leave the place a pig sty and pay the lady to take care of it, but she said the lady's job was to clean, not tidy. Meaning, for example, vacuuming the floor, not picking up all the crap first to get to it. So her family had to "clean," or tidy up, before the gal could "clean." Made sense when she explained it.

This is essentially it. And I do get it. It’s just funny and ironic.

I will say…..I resisted for years my wife’s petition to utilize a cleaning lady. We have a lot of neighbors that use one…..she has been asking for some time. Then one of my best friends tells me how he just gave in on the cleaning lady request and that it was the best thing ever.

So, I relented and sure enough…..it’s pretty sweet. We only use her once a month but I’ll be damned if it isn’t incredible. The grab bars on our glass sliding shower doors look like they’re floating in mid air. Just all the nooks and crannies spic and span and the last time she came she cleaned my coffee pot. I’d have sworn she just bought a new one of the same model.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: TAC on February 08, 2022, 08:42:33 PM
Yeah, that was the same here, Gary. Our neighbors used a girl, and my wife approached her. I resisted as well. I mean, how demeaning? :lol

But since my wife was the one that really CLEANED the house, I gave in. I kind of felt bad that I didn't do enough, but being gone over 11 hours a day and having two young kids...I'm not sure what else I could do. I clean, but apparently I don't...clean. :lol
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: KevShmev on February 08, 2022, 08:47:00 PM
Have had this conversation at home a few times. My wife grew up with a cleaning lady at her house, I did not. I thought the appropriate course would be to leave the place a pig sty and pay the lady to take care of it, but she said the lady's job was to clean, not tidy. Meaning, for example, vacuuming the floor, not picking up all the crap first to get to it. So her family had to "clean," or tidy up, before the gal could "clean." Made sense when she explained it.

This is essentially it. And I do get it. It’s just funny and ironic.

I will say…..I resisted for years my wife’s petition to utilize a cleaning lady. We have a lot of neighbors that use one…..she has been asking for some time. Then one of my best friends tells me how he just gave in on the cleaning lady request and that it was the best thing ever.

So, I relented and sure enough…..it’s pretty sweet. We only use her once a month but I’ll be damned if it isn’t incredible. The grab bars on our glass sliding shower doors look like they’re floating in mid air. Just all the nooks and crannies spic and span and the last time she came she cleaned my coffee pot. I’d have sworn she just bought a new one of the same model.

I may have to hit you up for this lady's number, Gary, as I bought a condo last spring and was thinking of having a cleaning person come in here and there to do the deep cleaning.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: King Puppies and the Acid Guppies on February 08, 2022, 10:48:33 PM
So my wife and I payed off our mortgage on our house last month. I can't tell you how good a feeling it is to have no house payment, to not have to owe anyone anything for our house (other than property tax.... :\ )

Now we can start putting more money into savings and into improving the house. Thinking of completely re-landscaping the backyard, which is about 3/4 of an acre. It's already fenced in, but it needs some TLC.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: jingle.boy on February 09, 2022, 05:44:20 AM
So my wife and I payed off our mortgage on our house last month. I can't tell you how good a feeling it is to have no house payment, to not have to owe anyone anything for our house (other than property tax.... :\ )

Yeah, that is a pretty sweet feeling.  :hifive:

On the cleaning service topic, we were the exact opposite.  mrs.jingle for years would lament about how much cleaning she did, and I would continually encourage us to get a service.  But then she'd fight against it - and I mean FIGHT.  I never got it - complain about a problem, but then absolutely refuse to take an action that will solve the problem.  And cleaning is not the only topic that I could apply that sentence to - but this is the home ownership thread, not the relationship thread.   :D
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Podaar on February 09, 2022, 06:07:00 AM
So my wife and I payed off our mortgage on our house last month. I can't tell you how good a feeling it is to have no house payment, to not have to owe anyone anything for our house (other than property tax.... :\ )

Yeah, that is a pretty sweet feeling.  :hifive:


Welcome to the mortgage free club. It's a happy place.

When Mrs. P retired she cancelled our cleaning service, figuring (I guess) that since she'll be home all the time she can do it. Now, y'all don't have to tell her, but she's not as good as the service. I mean, neither one of us is messy and we aren't comfortable with clutter, so it's not like a roach motel or anything. But it was awful wonderful to have everything glass (mirrors, shower walls, windows) polished to perfection one per month. They always got the corners, the tile in the shower, the dust bunnies under the bed. Last week I pulled down a bottle of Scotch from the bar top shelf and there was 1/32 of dust on its shoulders. I sighed and got out a bar towel and pulled every bottle down a cleaned them. I miss Sadie and her crew.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Stadler on February 09, 2022, 07:32:25 AM
I would have a cleaning person in here in a HEARTBEAT.   My wife is old school, "I can do it!" (as a teenager, going through school, she worked as a cleaning person at a local hotel).   But it takes time, and it's too easy to get interrupted mid-stream.   We did use one for a while when we both worked full time and it was golden.   I haven't been able to get back to that so far.

And yes, I would rather pay them to clean the toilets, showers and rugs than clean up my soiled underwear. So we straighten up before they arrive. ;)
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: ReaperKK on February 09, 2022, 09:00:31 AM
We've tried a few cleaning services and haven't really found one we liked. I was really anti-housekeeping for a long time and felt like it was a unnecessary expense but after I buckled and got someone to come once a month at my apartment a few years ago I would easily sacrifice going out for a meal to afford having a housekeeper.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Stadler on February 09, 2022, 09:25:56 AM
We've tried a few cleaning services and haven't really found one we liked. I was really anti-housekeeping for a long time and felt like it was a unnecessary expense but after I buckled and got someone to come once a month at my apartment a few years ago I would easily sacrifice going out for a meal to afford having a housekeeper.

The one rub:  They almost ALWAYS start out a house afire, cleaning like little gremlins, then after about six months, give or take, you start to see where they take the shortcuts.   
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: hunnus2000 on February 09, 2022, 09:35:13 AM
We've tried a few cleaning services and haven't really found one we liked. I was really anti-housekeeping for a long time and felt like it was a unnecessary expense but after I buckled and got someone to come once a month at my apartment a few years ago I would easily sacrifice going out for a meal to afford having a housekeeper.

I was like this too and was always like - we're an empty nest, there's NO reason why we can't keep this place clean. Well, the truth is we suck at basic house cleaning. So we got someone to come in weekly for 50.00 a week and it was really nice to come home from work each week to have your bedsheets changed and floors mopped not to mention clean toilets.

We've since moved and I am looking for someone to come in once a month. And yes - they will eventually take shortcuts.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: ReaperKK on February 09, 2022, 09:45:18 AM
We've tried a few cleaning services and haven't really found one we liked. I was really anti-housekeeping for a long time and felt like it was a unnecessary expense but after I buckled and got someone to come once a month at my apartment a few years ago I would easily sacrifice going out for a meal to afford having a housekeeper.

The one rub:  They almost ALWAYS start out a house afire, cleaning like little gremlins, then after about six months, give or take, you start to see where they take the shortcuts.   

Very true, it's why we have had such a hard time finding a good service in Charlotte. I loved the person we had in Florida, she was awesome.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: cramx3 on February 09, 2022, 09:46:26 AM
I really should hire a cleaning service.  As a solo dude with a cat in the house, I definitely don't keep up with the cleaning as much as I should.  I don't like clutter, so everything's usually put away and the house isn't a mess, but I don't scrub the hard to get places nearly enough and my desire to is very low.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: ReaperKK on February 09, 2022, 09:51:38 AM
Give it a shot Cram, it's really is nice. We have the house cleaned once a month.

I still maintenance clean around the house. We have a German Sheperd who sheds all the time so I vacuum daily but it's not the level the cleaners do it.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: hunnus2000 on February 09, 2022, 10:10:38 AM
Give it a shot Cram, it's really is nice. We have the house cleaned once a month.

I still maintenance clean around the house. We have a German Sheperd who sheds all the time so I vacuum daily but it's not the level the cleaners do it.

Do you mind if I ask how much per month? My neighbor pays 150.00 per month to clean basically a trailer. We have a 2 story house.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Stadler on February 09, 2022, 10:13:38 AM
Give it a shot Cram, it's really is nice. We have the house cleaned once a month.

I still maintenance clean around the house. We have a German Sheperd who sheds all the time so I vacuum daily but it's not the level the cleaners do it.

Do you mind if I ask how much per month? My neighbor pays 150.00 per month to clean basically a trailer. We have a 2 story house.

I was paying $150 every three weeks, if memory serves.  Four bedrooms, two and a half baths.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: hunnus2000 on February 09, 2022, 10:29:29 AM
Give it a shot Cram, it's really is nice. We have the house cleaned once a month.

I still maintenance clean around the house. We have a German Sheperd who sheds all the time so I vacuum daily but it's not the level the cleaners do it.

Do you mind if I ask how much per month? My neighbor pays 150.00 per month to clean basically a trailer. We have a 2 story house.

I was paying $150 every three weeks, if memory serves.  Four bedrooms, two and a half baths.

That's actually not bad.



Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: gmillerdrake on February 09, 2022, 11:03:48 AM
Give it a shot Cram, it's really is nice. We have the house cleaned once a month.

I still maintenance clean around the house. We have a German Sheperd who sheds all the time so I vacuum daily but it's not the level the cleaners do it.

Do you mind if I ask how much per month? My neighbor pays 150.00 per month to clean basically a trailer. We have a 2 story house.

We're right at that $160.00. She's usually there for 4 hours....maybe a touch more but no less than that. Once a month. We're in a 2 story, 2.5 baths.....decent size 3200 sq. ft. home. It's one lady and she freaking gets after it. She's essentially our subdivisions cleaning lady.....there are a ton of neighbors that use her.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: vtgrad on February 09, 2022, 11:33:55 AM
We had an offer on a new house accepted on the 31st. Busted our asses to get our house on the market on the 4th. And had 6 offers by the 6th. Absolutely crazy times in the real estate market right now. I'm happy with what we're getting for our current home as we plan a bunch of updates in the new house right away. Looking forward to a new chapter in the xizor household.

That's exciting! Congrats and good luck on finding the right spot for your next chapter to begin!  :tup
We're moving a whopping 15 miles away to a slightly larger house with a little over an acre of land. With 4 kids we need more room to breathe!

Now I get to play the game today of working with two different mortgage lenders and trying to get them to reduce their closing costs to get a better deal. I'm questioning whether it's worth too much effort to save a few hundred bucks on closing costs when we're talking about nearly half a million dollars for the house. But a couple hundred bucks for a few minutes of effort isn't so bad I guess.

Not sure where you are in the country, but UWM (United Wholesale Mortgage) is currently offering an Appraisal Credit up to $600 for Primary Residence purchases.  If you're working with a Broker (and you should be  :biggrin:), ask if they work with UWM and if so, ask them to price you.  UWM is normally fairly quick for Conventional Market depending upon Appraisal timing (my average is 20-days).

If you're making a 10% or greater down-payment, you may also receive an Appraisal Waiver from Fannie or Freddie; the originator will know once the file has been run through DU/LPA.

If you're not working with a Mortgage Broker that has UWM in the fold, PM me and I'll find you a trustworthy (as far as I can tell anyway) Broker in your state that can help you.  $600 in savings isn't nothing...
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: lordxizor on February 09, 2022, 12:33:18 PM
We had an offer on a new house accepted on the 31st. Busted our asses to get our house on the market on the 4th. And had 6 offers by the 6th. Absolutely crazy times in the real estate market right now. I'm happy with what we're getting for our current home as we plan a bunch of updates in the new house right away. Looking forward to a new chapter in the xizor household.

That's exciting! Congrats and good luck on finding the right spot for your next chapter to begin!  :tup
We're moving a whopping 15 miles away to a slightly larger house with a little over an acre of land. With 4 kids we need more room to breathe!

Now I get to play the game today of working with two different mortgage lenders and trying to get them to reduce their closing costs to get a better deal. I'm questioning whether it's worth too much effort to save a few hundred bucks on closing costs when we're talking about nearly half a million dollars for the house. But a couple hundred bucks for a few minutes of effort isn't so bad I guess.

Not sure where you are in the country, but UWM (United Wholesale Mortgage) is currently offering an Appraisal Credit up to $600 for Primary Residence purchases.  If you're working with a Broker (and you should be  :biggrin:), ask if they work with UWM and if so, ask them to price you.  UWM is normally fairly quick for Conventional Market depending upon Appraisal timing (my average is 20-days).

If you're making a 10% or greater down-payment, you may also receive an Appraisal Waiver from Fannie or Freddie; the originator will know once the file has been run through DU/LPA.

If you're not working with a Mortgage Broker that has UWM in the fold, PM me and I'll find you a trustworthy (as far as I can tell anyway) Broker in your state that can help you.  $600 in savings isn't nothing...
Thanks for the offer. I already have the financing squared away. I went back and forth between a couple local mortgage providers and got the closing costs as low as I could. The guy I went with said he's surprised more people don't do what I did. He was able to discount me an additional $500 (on top of the other discounts he originally offered) to get my business just because I sent him the costs of the other guy, which were lower at the time. It never hurts to ask. $500 on a nearly half million dollar mortgage is pretty negligible, but I spent maybe 2 hours total to save $500. $250 and hour is a pretty good use of my time.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Harmony on February 09, 2022, 01:10:14 PM
Paying for a housekeeper twice a month is the best money I spend.  Hands down.  I pay $135 each time including tip.  We have a large-ish house 3 bedrooms, 2 1/2 baths.  With the amount of cat hair my fuzz balls put out, just getting the floors super cleaned every 2 weeks is worth every penny.  Plus it forces us to keep up with the clutter that accumulates as we must tidy up before our gal comes.  We've been paying for this service for easily over 20 years now.

I have another question for home owners out there.  Do you purchase a home warranty for appliances/plumbing/electrical repairs?  I was talking to a friend yesterday who pays $40 a month for hers and she loves it.  Her furnace just went out and they paid all the repair costs and she got to choose the repair service she wanted.  She was also saying that as appliances are typically kaput after 7 years, not having to pay the cost to replace them is paying for the warranty annually.  Our washer/dryer and stove are probably due to die in the next couple of years (hopefully) so we are considering it.  The cost of appliances are staggering.  We just had the mother board on our stove replaced today (it took 2 months to get the part) and it was $350.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: cramx3 on February 09, 2022, 01:56:15 PM
When I purchased my house, I purchased a home warranty to cover the costs of potentially failing appliances that came with the house for 2 years.  That expired.  I never used it during that time frame and I never renewed it.  My experience with any paid warranty type of service is that it always expires right before something breaks  :lol so I'm not a big fan of purchasing such things, but I can see cases where it ends up being beneficial.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: vtgrad on February 09, 2022, 03:25:01 PM
We had an offer on a new house accepted on the 31st. Busted our asses to get our house on the market on the 4th. And had 6 offers by the 6th. Absolutely crazy times in the real estate market right now. I'm happy with what we're getting for our current home as we plan a bunch of updates in the new house right away. Looking forward to a new chapter in the xizor household.

That's exciting! Congrats and good luck on finding the right spot for your next chapter to begin!  :tup
We're moving a whopping 15 miles away to a slightly larger house with a little over an acre of land. With 4 kids we need more room to breathe!

Now I get to play the game today of working with two different mortgage lenders and trying to get them to reduce their closing costs to get a better deal. I'm questioning whether it's worth too much effort to save a few hundred bucks on closing costs when we're talking about nearly half a million dollars for the house. But a couple hundred bucks for a few minutes of effort isn't so bad I guess.

Not sure where you are in the country, but UWM (United Wholesale Mortgage) is currently offering an Appraisal Credit up to $600 for Primary Residence purchases.  If you're working with a Broker (and you should be  :biggrin:), ask if they work with UWM and if so, ask them to price you.  UWM is normally fairly quick for Conventional Market depending upon Appraisal timing (my average is 20-days).

If you're making a 10% or greater down-payment, you may also receive an Appraisal Waiver from Fannie or Freddie; the originator will know once the file has been run through DU/LPA.

If you're not working with a Mortgage Broker that has UWM in the fold, PM me and I'll find you a trustworthy (as far as I can tell anyway) Broker in your state that can help you.  $600 in savings isn't nothing...
Thanks for the offer. I already have the financing squared away. I went back and forth between a couple local mortgage providers and got the closing costs as low as I could. The guy I went with said he's surprised more people don't do what I did. He was able to discount me an additional $500 (on top of the other discounts he originally offered) to get my business just because I sent him the costs of the other guy, which were lower at the time. It never hurts to ask. $500 on a nearly half million dollar mortgage is pretty negligible, but I spent maybe 2 hours total to save $500. $250 and hour is a pretty good use of my time.

You're welcome  :tup  Offer extends to everyone... I'm happy to help!
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Grappler on February 10, 2022, 08:47:56 AM
No to the cleaning person.  We do it ourselves.  It's a 1,600 square foot house and is manageable.  I used to do the entire house in one day before we had kids.  Now, it gets messy.  I used to have some serious arguments about that, but I've learned to be more lax with the cleaning to have a happier household.

We have never bought a home warranty, aside from when we bought the house and it was included.  I have enough mechanical people in my family that can help out when needed.  My dad is a retired HVAC technician, so he's always around to help keep the furnace and AC running, and I get ideas from him when I need them.  Getting him out of the house and working with his hands again is a good thing.

The gas valve went out on our dryer and it was leaking gas about a year ago.  When it was running, it would burn the gas off, but when it was not running, the drum would fill up with gas and would smell.  We replaced the part for half the cost of a new dryer. 

We've been fortunate that our income and focus on building up our savings account allows us to buy a new appliance.   So far, it's just been a new washer, dryer, dishwasher and microwave over the last 6 years.  Not because any of them truly went out, but simply because they were old and needed to be replaced.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: ReaperKK on February 10, 2022, 02:24:25 PM
Give it a shot Cram, it's really is nice. We have the house cleaned once a month.

I still maintenance clean around the house. We have a German Sheperd who sheds all the time so I vacuum daily but it's not the level the cleaners do it.

Do you mind if I ask how much per month? My neighbor pays 150.00 per month to clean basically a trailer. We have a 2 story house.


Sorry for responding so late. The last cleaner we had was $210 a month for our two story 2500sq ft house
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Chino on April 21, 2022, 07:36:01 AM
Tax money was deposited this morning and I am shopping for a new fridge. My currently one is on it's last leg after a few years of limping along. Not a single one I've looked at can fit through the doorways of my house (1927 doorways). I have no clue how the current one got in. My best guess is it was either disassembled outside and brought in, or the door frames were removed. The doorframes look older than me though, so I don't think that was it.

Please advise.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: gmillerdrake on April 21, 2022, 07:41:15 AM
Tax money was deposited this morning and I am shopping for a new fridge. Not a single one I've looked at can fit through the doorways of my house (1927 doorways). I have no clue how the current one got in. My best guess is it was either disassembled outside and brought in, or the door frames were removed. The doorframes look older than me though, so I don't think that was it.

Please advise.

Just had this issue last year and my house was only 7 years old at the time and the doorways are standard. I did what you mentioned, I took off the doors and the handle to the freezer below and then reassembled once inside. The newer fridge's are pretty 'easy' to take the doors off....just a pain in the butt having to do it.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Chino on April 21, 2022, 08:04:49 AM
Tax money was deposited this morning and I am shopping for a new fridge. Not a single one I've looked at can fit through the doorways of my house (1927 doorways). I have no clue how the current one got in. My best guess is it was either disassembled outside and brought in, or the door frames were removed. The doorframes look older than me though, so I don't think that was it.

Please advise.

Just had this issue last year and my house was only 7 years old at the time and the doorways are standard. I did what you mentioned, I took off the doors and the handle to the freezer below and then reassembled once inside. The newer fridge's are pretty 'easy' to take the doors off....just a pain in the butt having to do it.

Damn. I was hoping to avoid that. Part of the cost is getting it delivered and hooked up in the kitchen. I don't want to have to coordinate with someone else on delivery day to have them give me a hand.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: gmillerdrake on April 21, 2022, 08:14:09 AM
Damn. I was hoping to avoid that. Part of the cost is getting it delivered and hooked up in the kitchen. I don't want to have to coordinate with someone else on delivery day to have them give me a hand.

Yeah...it's a bummer for sure. Like I said though....it's not overly complicated, just a nuisance to deal with. You're probably looking at 10 minutes or so to uncrate/unpack......20 minutes to take off the doors.....5-10 moving it inside then another 20 minutes or so to put the doors back on. A solid hour of work before you start your hookup.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Stadler on April 21, 2022, 05:42:33 PM
Tax money was deposited this morning and I am shopping for a new fridge. Not a single one I've looked at can fit through the doorways of my house (1927 doorways). I have no clue how the current one got in. My best guess is it was either disassembled outside and brought in, or the door frames were removed. The doorframes look older than me though, so I don't think that was it.

Please advise.

Just had this issue last year and my house was only 7 years old at the time and the doorways are standard. I did what you mentioned, I took off the doors and the handle to the freezer below and then reassembled once inside. The newer fridge's are pretty 'easy' to take the doors off....just a pain in the butt having to do it.

Damn. I was hoping to avoid that. Part of the cost is getting it delivered and hooked up in the kitchen. I don't want to have to coordinate with someone else on delivery day to have them give me a hand.

If they are delivering and hooking up, they ought to do the door thing.  You might have to smile nice, and palm them a $20 after they're done, but they should do that.  Not every house has 48" doorways.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: cramx3 on April 22, 2022, 09:45:18 AM
Tax money was deposited this morning and I am shopping for a new fridge. Not a single one I've looked at can fit through the doorways of my house (1927 doorways). I have no clue how the current one got in. My best guess is it was either disassembled outside and brought in, or the door frames were removed. The doorframes look older than me though, so I don't think that was it.

Please advise.

Just had this issue last year and my house was only 7 years old at the time and the doorways are standard. I did what you mentioned, I took off the doors and the handle to the freezer below and then reassembled once inside. The newer fridge's are pretty 'easy' to take the doors off....just a pain in the butt having to do it.

Damn. I was hoping to avoid that. Part of the cost is getting it delivered and hooked up in the kitchen. I don't want to have to coordinate with someone else on delivery day to have them give me a hand.

If they are delivering and hooking up, they ought to do the door thing.  You might have to smile nice, and palm them a $20 after they're done, but they should do that.  Not every house has 48" doorways.

I would have assumed it's included in the service myself, but I could be wrong.  Got me thinking if I'd have this same issue (I think so) when I eventually have to replace my fridge. Mine is quite old from the previous owner and I REALLY do actually want a more modern one, but with this one still in good shape, there's just little reason to force that upgrade. 
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: ProfessorPeart on April 22, 2022, 10:52:09 AM
I moved into my house which was a brand new build in 2007. The fridge we bought was too big for the front door. The delivery guys disassembled it, brought it in and then put it back together.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Skeever on April 22, 2022, 11:10:26 AM
Anybody have any experience with sustainable (note: grassless) landscaping?
I've gotten the idea because 1.) I hate mowing, 2.) grass is, often, very boring 3.) there are areas of my yard that just suck to mow (so let's start there first).

Other than tear up the turf, spread some topsoil, and plant some natives, I've got no idea where to start... any pointers very welcomed  :biggrin:
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: MinistroRaven on April 22, 2022, 04:01:19 PM
https://insta-turf.com/

I created their website BTW.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Grappler on April 29, 2022, 11:36:40 AM
Looks like I might be buying a new house this summer. 

My wife wants to get back to full-time work and is searching for a full-remote position.  Our current home is a raised-ranch (quad-level) with an open-ish floor plan.  No rooms have doors aside from bedrooms and bathrooms.  We don't have a spare bedroom for an office.  So she wants a bigger house.  With the pandemic over the last 2 years, we've all been in the house more often and on top of each other most days.  We have nowhere to hide when we need to take important phone calls for work.

She has her heart set on a certain neighborhood in our town with bigger houses and bigger prices.  If nothing works out, we can still stay here.  No biggie.  Our agent sent out mailers and we prepared our house and had photos taken, should we decide to move.   There was no action in that subdivision.  I tried to join their restricted Facebook group and messaged back and forth with the resident that admins the group.  He put a feeler out in the group on my behalf and connected me with a homeowner that is moving out of state this summer.  He was going to sell his house "for sale/by owner." 

We were able to tour the house last weekend and fell in love with it.  It's perfect for our family and needs, while still being in the same school district and boundary, so my daughter doesn't have to change schools.  It's a great, friendly neighborhood, at the end of a quiet court/cul-de-sac, and within walking/biking distance to our town's brand new library and a public park.  My current home is close to the school, but on a main artery street where cars and delivery trucks routinely do in excess of the 25mph speed limit.   Over the last few years, more people have moved in with louder cars, which affect all of our sleep, as well as the safety issue of them playing in the driveway with cars zooming past all the time.

We'll be submitting an offer next week.  The homeowner seems to be working with our agent for now, which is a good sign.  The downside is saying goodbye to our home of 12 years, where we brought our kids home from the hospital and raised them for the first several years of their lives.  I know this house inside and out, having put blood, sweat and tears into it, and that bothers me a little to walk away from my hard work.  A few months ago, i was dreading this process, but I'm realizing that we do need this change as a family and it will be better for all of us.  More to come in the following weeks/months, if all goes well!
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: gmillerdrake on April 29, 2022, 12:45:00 PM
Best of luck Grappler!!!  That's exciting!
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Grappler on May 04, 2022, 12:58:46 PM
Best of luck Grappler!!!  That's exciting!

Thanks, it's been crazy.  Looks like it's all going to be official very soon.  I had a full-on breakdown today, trying to balance the stress of everything with my job stress - buying this new home, having to get ready to sell our current home, a tremendously busy job workload, and kids that are driving me up the wall...and on top of everything, our 13 year old tv burned up last night and died, so I had to buy a new tv today.  It was embarrassing, but apparently I needed to let those emotions out, even if it was just in front of my wife.

I have to spend an extra $5,000 on the house to make up for my agent's commission (I don't have any experience in doing a For Sale By Owner and don't have the time to hire my own real estate lawyer.).  In the end though, this is the forever/dream house for the family and will make our lives better, even if our mortgage and property tax amounts are going to increase, though it should still remain affordable for us with a little tightening of the budget. 

So if that's what it takes, so be it.  The seller is really nice, threw in a pool table, outdoor pergola and a couch for the extra $5K and is happy to be selling his home to another family to raise their kids in, as they look to downsize.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Dublagent66 on May 04, 2022, 03:15:10 PM
Not exactly a buyer's market in terms of home value, but getting low rates while you still can is the compelling factor I suppose.  But does it really matter?  For instance, 5 years ago when I bought my 2nd house, it was $220k at 4.62%.  However, my down payment was 20%, so the loan was only $176k.  Now, it's worth twice that much and the rates are around 3.5% now?  You're still paying more interest and not to mention the extra down payment you'd need to keep the mortgage payment reasonable.  I certainly wouldn't want to be a first time buyer in today's market.  It could end up being 2008 all over again.  Perhaps even worse.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Stadler on May 05, 2022, 05:47:12 AM
Look, I'm sure it's a function of incomplete information and me not getting the full story, but sort of confused why you'd pay $5k in cash when (depending where you live) you can have a quality real estate lawyer on your case for less than half that.  Good real estate counsel is relatively easy to find since there are so many sources for referrals (anyone who's bought a house, anyone who's sold a house, any real estate agent, many tenants, many landlords...)
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Chino on May 05, 2022, 05:51:25 AM
Look, I'm sure it's a function of incomplete information and me not getting the full story, but sort of confused why you'd pay $5k in cash when (depending where you live) you can have a quality real estate lawyer on your case for less than half that. Good real estate counsel is relatively easy to find since there are so many sources for referrals (anyone who's bought a house, anyone who's sold a house, any real estate agent, many tenants, many landlords...)

My guy was running for CT attorney general at the time and ghosted on my closing date because an event came up :lol
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Grappler on May 05, 2022, 06:48:17 AM
Look, I'm sure it's a function of incomplete information and me not getting the full story, but sort of confused why you'd pay $5k in cash when (depending where you live) you can have a quality real estate lawyer on your case for less than half that.  Good real estate counsel is relatively easy to find since there are so many sources for referrals (anyone who's bought a house, anyone who's sold a house, any real estate agent, many tenants, many landlords...)

I don't have the time to find a lawyer and spend time on it for various reasons (work, family).  We wanted to work with a realtor, the buyer didn't.  So our realtor cut her commission in half and the offer increased by that same amount so the buyer can walk away with the total amount that he wants.

It is what it is.  We're getting a pool table, outdoor pergola and big sectional couch for that $5K, so it's not like i'm just throwing it away.  There is some added value on our end.

Bottom line - both parties are happy and came to an agreement.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: cramx3 on May 05, 2022, 08:22:31 AM
Not exactly a buyer's market in terms of home value, but getting low rates while you still can is the compelling factor I suppose.  But does it really matter?  For instance, 5 years ago when I bought my 2nd house, it was $220k at 4.62%.  However, my down payment was 20%, so the loan was only $176k.  Now, it's worth twice that much and the rates are around 3.5% now?  You're still paying more interest and not to mention the extra down payment you'd need to keep the mortgage payment reasonable.  I certainly wouldn't want to be a first time buyer in today's market.  It could end up being 2008 all over again.  Perhaps even worse.

I thought the fed just bumped rates and they are closer to 5% now
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Stadler on May 05, 2022, 09:21:50 AM
Look, I'm sure it's a function of incomplete information and me not getting the full story, but sort of confused why you'd pay $5k in cash when (depending where you live) you can have a quality real estate lawyer on your case for less than half that.  Good real estate counsel is relatively easy to find since there are so many sources for referrals (anyone who's bought a house, anyone who's sold a house, any real estate agent, many tenants, many landlords...)

I don't have the time to find a lawyer and spend time on it for various reasons (work, family).  We wanted to work with a realtor, the buyer didn't.  So our realtor cut her commission in half and the offer increased by that same amount so the buyer can walk away with the total amount that he wants.

It is what it is.  We're getting a pool table, outdoor pergola and big sectional couch for that $5K, so it's not like i'm just throwing it away.  There is some added value on our end.

Bottom line - both parties are happy and came to an agreement.

And that's all that matters.   (I'm being sincere, here).   
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Grappler on May 05, 2022, 09:29:43 AM
Look, I'm sure it's a function of incomplete information and me not getting the full story, but sort of confused why you'd pay $5k in cash when (depending where you live) you can have a quality real estate lawyer on your case for less than half that.  Good real estate counsel is relatively easy to find since there are so many sources for referrals (anyone who's bought a house, anyone who's sold a house, any real estate agent, many tenants, many landlords...)

I don't have the time to find a lawyer and spend time on it for various reasons (work, family).  We wanted to work with a realtor, the buyer didn't.  So our realtor cut her commission in half and the offer increased by that same amount so the buyer can walk away with the total amount that he wants.

It is what it is.  We're getting a pool table, outdoor pergola and big sectional couch for that $5K, so it's not like i'm just throwing it away.  There is some added value on our end.

Bottom line - both parties are happy and came to an agreement.

And that's all that matters.   (I'm being sincere, here).

Thanks!

All of my home projects come down to time vs. money.  I can do something myself and save money, but it takes longer for me to do. Or I can hire someone, spend more money, but have it done quicker.  This time, I figured a little extra money will just make the process easier for ME to deal with, during a ridiculously busy time of the year.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Grappler on May 12, 2022, 07:40:42 AM
Bump.

We signed the contract on the new house.  Our current home was listed yesterday.  Over 500 views on Zillow in less than 24 hours.  14 confirmed showings for the next two days - thankfully, the majority of them fall between 3pm-7pm tonight, so we don't have to constantly be in and out of the house.  I may drive over to the library and use their wi-fi, since I'm working from home today and don't want to shut down for 30 minutes here or there around lunchtime for the two showings then.

Here's to hoping these showings and an open house on Saturday lead to an offer or two!  It's such a pain in the ass to tidy up the house and make it as spotless as possible with two young kids who also either need attention or want to re-make their messes. 
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: lordxizor on May 12, 2022, 07:45:21 AM
Bump.

We signed the contract on the new house.  Our current home was listed yesterday.  Over 500 views on Zillow in less than 24 hours.  14 confirmed showings for the next two days - thankfully, the majority of them fall between 3pm-7pm tonight, so we don't have to constantly be in and out of the house.  I may drive over to the library and use their wi-fi, since I'm working from home today and don't want to shut down for 30 minutes here or there around lunchtime for the two showings then.

Here's to hoping these showings and an open house on Saturday lead to an offer or two!  It's such a pain in the ass to tidy up the house and make it as spotless as possible with two young kids who also either need attention or want to re-make their messes. 
If the market is anything like it was a few months ago, and your house is a decent place and priced appropriately, you should have offers this weekend. I know things have slowed down a little but with the higher interest rates, but I think it's still very much a sellers market. Good luck! It's really nice to only have to deal with showings for one weekend.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Grappler on May 14, 2022, 06:33:02 AM
We had about 15 showings within a 24-28 hour time span.  Received an offer first thing yesterday morning....and three additional offers throughout the day.  I nitpick the hell out of my house and it amazed me to see a number of people want to buy it.

We're accepting the first offer - it's a younger couple who want to buy the house and start a family here, just like we did.  They came in at $30,000 over asking price, which blows my mind.  We're seling the house for $98,000 more than when we bought the house 13 years ago, though a lot of that is because of the upgrades:  newer roof, siding, front/rear entry doors, windows, some carpet, kitchen counters/sink, light fixtures, privacy fence and more.  I bet we've put $50K to $60K of upgrades into the house over those years, if not more.

Oh, and they don't want a home inspection either, which is fantastic for us.  :)  Not that our house is in bad shape (it isn't), but it saves us from having to offer money back to them for an old furnace/AC, etc. 

Kind of nice to know that we'll be making this couple's weekend once we sign the paperwork and send it off. 
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: King Postwhore on May 14, 2022, 07:50:33 AM
Cracking the ice today. 1st mowing of the lawn today.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: TAC on May 14, 2022, 07:55:53 AM
Cracking the ice today. 1st mowing of the lawn today.

I did my front last week. Our back is pretty long so we're having it done. Hopefully they come today.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: hunnus2000 on May 14, 2022, 08:20:40 AM
We had about 15 showings within a 24-28 hour time span.  Received an offer first thing yesterday morning....and three additional offers throughout the day.  I nitpick the hell out of my house and it amazed me to see a number of people want to buy it.

We're accepting the first offer - it's a younger couple who want to buy the house and start a family here, just like we did.  They came in at $30,000 over asking price, which blows my mind.  We're seling the house for $98,000 more than when we bought the house 13 years ago, though a lot of that is because of the upgrades:  newer roof, siding, front/rear entry doors, windows, some carpet, kitchen counters/sink, light fixtures, privacy fence and more.  I bet we've put $50K to $60K of upgrades into the house over those years, if not more.

Oh, and they don't want a home inspection either, which is fantastic for us.  :)  Not that our house is in bad shape (it isn't), but it saves us from having to offer money back to them for an old furnace/AC, etc. 

Kind of nice to know that we'll be making this couple's weekend once we sign the paperwork and send it off.

It sounds like they gave an all cash offer? That could explain the no home inspection but otherwise that's great news!

Congrats!  :metal
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: King Postwhore on May 14, 2022, 08:22:47 AM
Cracking the ice today. 1st mowing of the lawn today.

I did my front last week. Our back is pretty long so we're having it done. Hopefully they come today.

Going to make a playlist before I mow.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Grappler on May 14, 2022, 10:34:19 AM
We had about 15 showings within a 24-28 hour time span.  Received an offer first thing yesterday morning....and three additional offers throughout the day.  I nitpick the hell out of my house and it amazed me to see a number of people want to buy it.

We're accepting the first offer - it's a younger couple who want to buy the house and start a family here, just like we did.  They came in at $30,000 over asking price, which blows my mind.  We're seling the house for $98,000 more than when we bought the house 13 years ago, though a lot of that is because of the upgrades:  newer roof, siding, front/rear entry doors, windows, some carpet, kitchen counters/sink, light fixtures, privacy fence and more.  I bet we've put $50K to $60K of upgrades into the house over those years, if not more.

Oh, and they don't want a home inspection either, which is fantastic for us.  :)  Not that our house is in bad shape (it isn't), but it saves us from having to offer money back to them for an old furnace/AC, etc. 

Kind of nice to know that we'll be making this couple's weekend once we sign the paperwork and send it off.

It sounds like they gave an all cash offer? That could explain the no home inspection but otherwise that's great news!

Congrats!  :metal

The opposite actually.  They are a young couple with little money.  Low down payment of 5%.

Part of me feels bad that they are overpaying for this house, but the reality is that we have updated the hell out of the house with big ticket things.  It's my right to sell for as much money as the market and appraisal allows., and it is helping me buy an even bigger home and asset.

No inspection because just about everything in the house is newer and they are comfortable with the homes condition, and they wanted to show us how much they love and want the house. 
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: cramx3 on May 16, 2022, 08:50:08 AM
Don't feel bad.  They made that offer not you.  Congrats on the sale though  :yarr
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: jingle.boy on May 16, 2022, 11:06:27 AM
Cracking the ice today. 1st mowing of the lawn today.

Did mine on the weekend too.  It was too damned wet/soggy/mushy to attempt to get the tractor through it until now.

I'm absolutely flabergasted anyone would buy a house without an inspection.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: cramx3 on May 16, 2022, 12:01:41 PM
I'm absolutely flabergasted anyone would buy a house without an inspection.

Me too, but that's been fairly common in this housing market.  Anything to get an edge to accept your offer.  I'm just glad I'm not a buyer because I wouldn't be comfortable without an inspection, but if that was the only way to get the house I wanted... maybe I would?
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: hunnus2000 on May 16, 2022, 12:23:38 PM
I'm absolutely flabergasted anyone would buy a house without an inspection.

Me too, but that's been fairly common in this housing market.  Anything to get an edge to accept your offer.  I'm just glad I'm not a buyer because I wouldn't be comfortable without an inspection, but if that was the only way to get the house I wanted... maybe I would?

Usually, it's the mortgage lender that requires an inspection but I have no idea if it's a State by State requirement.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: cramx3 on May 16, 2022, 12:27:16 PM
I'm absolutely flabergasted anyone would buy a house without an inspection.

Me too, but that's been fairly common in this housing market.  Anything to get an edge to accept your offer.  I'm just glad I'm not a buyer because I wouldn't be comfortable without an inspection, but if that was the only way to get the house I wanted... maybe I would?

Usually, it's the mortgage lender that requires an inspection but I have no idea if it's a State by State requirement.

Yeah, but a lot of people are paying cash these days.  Where they get it? I have no idea.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Chino on May 16, 2022, 01:44:44 PM
I'm absolutely flabergasted anyone would buy a house without an inspection.

Me too, but that's been fairly common in this housing market.  Anything to get an edge to accept your offer.  I'm just glad I'm not a buyer because I wouldn't be comfortable without an inspection, but if that was the only way to get the house I wanted... maybe I would?

Usually, it's the mortgage lender that requires an inspection but I have no idea if it's a State by State requirement.

Yeah, but a lot of people are paying cash these days.  Where they get it? I have no idea.

Most houses being bought outright in cash are not being bought by the people who will be living in it. Cash buyouts are coming from those giant rental companies that already have thousands of properties in their portfolio and have the capital to throw around.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Grappler on May 17, 2022, 07:11:18 AM
The couple buying my house is definitely not paying cash.  They only have 5% down, and they're using their agent's preferred lender.  My agent told me that banks don't require it (at least here in Illlinois), and they'd really shit a brick if they did see the inspection report, noting all of the imperfections and bad things about the property that they're lending hundreds of thousands of dollars for.

It's just a tool to protect the prospective buyer so they can know what they're getting into.  I had the inspection performed at my new home yesterday, and it gives me a starting point to know what I need to handle immediately vs. several years down the line.  Once I get settled in, I can start working on correcting some of the issues. 

So the couple buying my house is trusting that all of the upgrades and work I've done to improve the home is solid, vs. having it inspected.  That's fine by me, as it's less ammo to try and nickel and dime their offer down several thousand dollars afterwards.   And like above, it gets their offer on top of the pile over all others.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Orbert on May 17, 2022, 08:50:08 AM
When we bought our house in '99, also here in Illinois, the inspection was basically required.  Maybe not by law, but we were told that no one was going to lend us the money if they didn't have some idea of how worthy it was.  That made sense, but your explanation also makes sense.  So maybe it's because the market has changed so much since then, or something.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: lordxizor on May 17, 2022, 08:58:17 AM
Inspections are definitely not required by most lenders. Appraisals are though. An appraiser would note any serious damage, but they aren't looking into the attic or testing our the furnace.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Stadler on May 18, 2022, 07:01:00 AM
I'm absolutely flabergasted anyone would buy a house without an inspection.

Me too, but that's been fairly common in this housing market.  Anything to get an edge to accept your offer.  I'm just glad I'm not a buyer because I wouldn't be comfortable without an inspection, but if that was the only way to get the house I wanted... maybe I would?

Usually, it's the mortgage lender that requires an inspection but I have no idea if it's a State by State requirement.

Yeah, but a lot of people are paying cash these days.  Where they get it? I have no idea.

Most houses being bought outright in cash are not being bought by the people who will be living in it. Cash buyouts are coming from those giant rental companies that already have thousands of properties in their portfolio and have the capital to throw around.

Or flippers.  My wife does closings, and I know of three cash transactions in the last six months she was involved in and all three were people who were likely going to flip the house in a matter of months.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: lordxizor on May 18, 2022, 07:06:17 AM
At the height of the buying frenzy last year, I know of one person who borrowed the cash for their new house from their parents and then took out a mortgage after the purchase was complete to repay them. Other people were selling their homes for millions in high cost of living areas like CA and then moving to a lower cost of living place and using the cash to buy their new home outright. People were using many different means to come up with the cash to be a more attractive offer so they had a chance at snagging the home they wanted.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: jingle.boy on May 18, 2022, 07:35:56 AM
At the height of the buying frenzy last year, I know of one person who borrowed the cash for their new house from their parents and then took out a mortgage after the purchase was complete to repay them. Other people were selling their homes for millions in high cost of living areas like CA and then moving to a lower cost of living place and using the cash to buy their new home outright. People were using many different means to come up with the cash to be a more attractive offer so they had a chance at snagging the home they wanted.

Someone want to explain to my why (in the US) "paying cash" makes a difference?  I've never heard of this as having any kind of meaningful impact or relevance here in Canada.  As a seller, I don't care where the money comes from, so long as I get the price on the contract paid on the date of the contract.

What gives?
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Stadler on May 18, 2022, 07:52:45 AM
At the height of the buying frenzy last year, I know of one person who borrowed the cash for their new house from their parents and then took out a mortgage after the purchase was complete to repay them. Other people were selling their homes for millions in high cost of living areas like CA and then moving to a lower cost of living place and using the cash to buy their new home outright. People were using many different means to come up with the cash to be a more attractive offer so they had a chance at snagging the home they wanted.

Someone want to explain to my why (in the US) "paying cash" makes a difference?  I've never heard of this as having any kind of meaningful impact or relevance here in Canada.  As a seller, I don't care where the money comes from, so long as I get the price on the contract paid on the date of the contract.

What gives?

It doesn't to the Seller, unless "timing" is your thing.  Having a mortgage takes longer from offer to close, and there is always the risk that after you're under contract, the Buyer can't get a mortgage and you lost x amount of time off market (plus the perception of having had a failed transaction; people might wonder why).  For the Buyer, there are more hoops to go through and likely it will cost more in out of pocket money. 
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: lordxizor on May 18, 2022, 09:47:09 AM
At the height of the buying frenzy last year, I know of one person who borrowed the cash for their new house from their parents and then took out a mortgage after the purchase was complete to repay them. Other people were selling their homes for millions in high cost of living areas like CA and then moving to a lower cost of living place and using the cash to buy their new home outright. People were using many different means to come up with the cash to be a more attractive offer so they had a chance at snagging the home they wanted.

Someone want to explain to my why (in the US) "paying cash" makes a difference?  I've never heard of this as having any kind of meaningful impact or relevance here in Canada.  As a seller, I don't care where the money comes from, so long as I get the price on the contract paid on the date of the contract.

What gives?

It doesn't to the Seller, unless "timing" is your thing.  Having a mortgage takes longer from offer to close, and there is always the risk that after you're under contract, the Buyer can't get a mortgage and you lost x amount of time off market (plus the perception of having had a failed transaction; people might wonder why).  For the Buyer, there are more hoops to go through and likely it will cost more in out of pocket money. 
Yeah, it's all a risk and timing thing for the seller. Mortgages fall through at the last second for lots of reasons. And a cash buyer can close within days potentially, whereas 3-4 weeks is the minimum for someone getting a mortgage.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: jingle.boy on May 18, 2022, 09:49:52 AM
At the height of the buying frenzy last year, I know of one person who borrowed the cash for their new house from their parents and then took out a mortgage after the purchase was complete to repay them. Other people were selling their homes for millions in high cost of living areas like CA and then moving to a lower cost of living place and using the cash to buy their new home outright. People were using many different means to come up with the cash to be a more attractive offer so they had a chance at snagging the home they wanted.

Someone want to explain to my why (in the US) "paying cash" makes a difference?  I've never heard of this as having any kind of meaningful impact or relevance here in Canada.  As a seller, I don't care where the money comes from, so long as I get the price on the contract paid on the date of the contract.

What gives?

It doesn't to the Seller, unless "timing" is your thing.  Having a mortgage takes longer from offer to close, and there is always the risk that after you're under contract, the Buyer can't get a mortgage and you lost x amount of time off market (plus the perception of having had a failed transaction; people might wonder why).  For the Buyer, there are more hoops to go through and likely it will cost more in out of pocket money. 
Yeah, it's all a risk and timing thing for the seller. Mortgages fall through at the last second for lots of reasons. And a cash buyer can close within days potentially, whereas 3-4 weeks is the minimum for someone getting a mortgage.

Is pre-approval not a thing in the US?  I've never *not* gotten a pre-approval from my lender before house-hunting.  Then again, I've never bought/sold an empty house that could be turned over in a matter of days.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: lordxizor on May 18, 2022, 09:54:53 AM
At the height of the buying frenzy last year, I know of one person who borrowed the cash for their new house from their parents and then took out a mortgage after the purchase was complete to repay them. Other people were selling their homes for millions in high cost of living areas like CA and then moving to a lower cost of living place and using the cash to buy their new home outright. People were using many different means to come up with the cash to be a more attractive offer so they had a chance at snagging the home they wanted.

Someone want to explain to my why (in the US) "paying cash" makes a difference?  I've never heard of this as having any kind of meaningful impact or relevance here in Canada.  As a seller, I don't care where the money comes from, so long as I get the price on the contract paid on the date of the contract.

What gives?

It doesn't to the Seller, unless "timing" is your thing.  Having a mortgage takes longer from offer to close, and there is always the risk that after you're under contract, the Buyer can't get a mortgage and you lost x amount of time off market (plus the perception of having had a failed transaction; people might wonder why).  For the Buyer, there are more hoops to go through and likely it will cost more in out of pocket money. 
Yeah, it's all a risk and timing thing for the seller. Mortgages fall through at the last second for lots of reasons. And a cash buyer can close within days potentially, whereas 3-4 weeks is the minimum for someone getting a mortgage.

Is pre-approval not a thing in the US?  I've never *not* gotten a pre-approval from my lender before house-hunting.  Then again, I've never bought/sold an empty house that could be turned over in a matter of days.
Pre-approval is basically required these days. Our realtor literally wouldn't have even showed us a house without one. Closing still takes at least 3 weeks after an offer is accepted even with pre-approval. It almost seems like the mortgage companies don't actually do anything with the pre-approval info until there's actually an accepted offer.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: gmillerdrake on May 18, 2022, 10:58:15 AM
We split a 20 cubic yard dumpster with some neighbors and it's sitting in my driveway right now.....and just throwing away 8 years of stuff that we either haven't touched since we moved into our house or that was just taking up space. It's such a nice feeling decluttering like this. We have it until next Monday so I'm just taking a few hours a night and chucking stuff in there...as are our neighbors.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: lordxizor on May 18, 2022, 11:03:53 AM
We split a 20 cubic yard dumpster with some neighbors and it's sitting in my driveway right now.....and just throwing away 8 years of stuff that we either haven't touched since we moved into our house or that was just taking up space. It's such a nice feeling decluttering like this. We have it until next Monday so I'm just taking a few hours a night and chucking stuff in there...as are our neighbors.
I would love so much to do this. We just moved and in our hurry we didn't have time to properly purge. My wife and I have a fundamental disagreement on what we need, so it'll never happen, but I would throw out literally half of the stuff we have in our home that isn't furniture. I would be a full on minimalist if it were up to me. I love purging and getting rid of stuff.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: cramx3 on May 18, 2022, 11:09:03 AM
I've been wanting to get a small dumpster myself to clean out my shed and basement.  I hate clutter so much and I have quite a bit of it now in my storage areas that need to go.  I've just been lazy but I keep telling myself I want to get it done this year. 
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Stadler on May 18, 2022, 11:34:39 AM
At the height of the buying frenzy last year, I know of one person who borrowed the cash for their new house from their parents and then took out a mortgage after the purchase was complete to repay them. Other people were selling their homes for millions in high cost of living areas like CA and then moving to a lower cost of living place and using the cash to buy their new home outright. People were using many different means to come up with the cash to be a more attractive offer so they had a chance at snagging the home they wanted.

Someone want to explain to my why (in the US) "paying cash" makes a difference?  I've never heard of this as having any kind of meaningful impact or relevance here in Canada.  As a seller, I don't care where the money comes from, so long as I get the price on the contract paid on the date of the contract.

What gives?

It doesn't to the Seller, unless "timing" is your thing.  Having a mortgage takes longer from offer to close, and there is always the risk that after you're under contract, the Buyer can't get a mortgage and you lost x amount of time off market (plus the perception of having had a failed transaction; people might wonder why).  For the Buyer, there are more hoops to go through and likely it will cost more in out of pocket money. 
Yeah, it's all a risk and timing thing for the seller. Mortgages fall through at the last second for lots of reasons. And a cash buyer can close within days potentially, whereas 3-4 weeks is the minimum for someone getting a mortgage.

Is pre-approval not a thing in the US?  I've never *not* gotten a pre-approval from my lender before house-hunting.  Then again, I've never bought/sold an empty house that could be turned over in a matter of days.
Pre-approval is basically required these days. Our realtor literally wouldn't have even showed us a house without one. Closing still takes at least 3 weeks after an offer is accepted even with pre-approval. It almost seems like the mortgage companies don't actually do anything with the pre-approval info until there's actually an accepted offer.

This exactly.  When I moved last July, 90% of the houses we looked at needed a "pre-approval", so I got one and gave it to my agent.   My sale required a pre-approval for each visit, though I think we allowed one couple to come see it without.  Just because you have a pre-approval does NOT mean you are going to close.  Not even close.  I think it's a fair question "what are pre-approvals for", but there is a reason; it does weed out a certain portion of the potential market, and it does absolutely preclude the "lookie-Lou's" from showing up; I know the thought had crossed our mind that my wife's ex (douche) would come through the house, with only his agent as "tour guide".
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: cramx3 on May 18, 2022, 11:37:31 AM
If I recall from my experience, the pre-approval was super easy to get too.  It does seem to weed some people out of bothering house sellers for a house they can't afford especially in a market like today where you're going to get a lot of interest when you put the house up for sale. 

My good friend who just got a town house had to actually up his pre-approval working with his agent.  It was originally blocking him from a lot of the houses he wanted and I guess they agreed that it could be higher since he got a higher amount pre-approved and eventually got a mortgage and the town house he wanted.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Stadler on May 18, 2022, 11:50:08 AM
We split a 20 cubic yard dumpster with some neighbors and it's sitting in my driveway right now.....and just throwing away 8 years of stuff that we either haven't touched since we moved into our house or that was just taking up space. It's such a nice feeling decluttering like this. We have it until next Monday so I'm just taking a few hours a night and chucking stuff in there...as are our neighbors.

I'm with you 100%.  I can't fill an entire dumpster in a timeframe that makes it feasible, but I've taken to every Saturday taking a load to the dump, then stopping at Dave's Luncheonette for breakfast.  I'm usually home before the rest of the fam is up and at 'em, so it's a win win.  I get the release from throwing shit away, and a home-cooked breakfast to boot.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: jingle.boy on May 18, 2022, 12:12:54 PM
We split a 20 cubic yard dumpster with some neighbors and it's sitting in my driveway right now.....and just throwing away 8 years of stuff that we either haven't touched since we moved into our house or that was just taking up space. It's such a nice feeling decluttering like this. We have it until next Monday so I'm just taking a few hours a night and chucking stuff in there...as are our neighbors.

Here's your motto for the next week - When in doubt, throw it out.

We split a 20 cubic yard dumpster with some neighbors and it's sitting in my driveway right now.....and just throwing away 8 years of stuff that we either haven't touched since we moved into our house or that was just taking up space. It's such a nice feeling decluttering like this. We have it until next Monday so I'm just taking a few hours a night and chucking stuff in there...as are our neighbors.

I'm with you 100%.  I can't fill an entire dumpster in a timeframe that makes it feasible, but I've taken to every Saturday taking a load to the dump, then stopping at Dave's Luncheonette for breakfast.  I'm usually home before the rest of the fam is up and at 'em, so it's a win win.  I get the release from throwing shit away, and a home-cooked breakfast to boot.

Which is it?  :lol
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Stadler on May 18, 2022, 12:36:32 PM
We split a 20 cubic yard dumpster with some neighbors and it's sitting in my driveway right now.....and just throwing away 8 years of stuff that we either haven't touched since we moved into our house or that was just taking up space. It's such a nice feeling decluttering like this. We have it until next Monday so I'm just taking a few hours a night and chucking stuff in there...as are our neighbors.

Here's your motto for the next week - When in doubt, throw it out.

We split a 20 cubic yard dumpster with some neighbors and it's sitting in my driveway right now.....and just throwing away 8 years of stuff that we either haven't touched since we moved into our house or that was just taking up space. It's such a nice feeling decluttering like this. We have it until next Monday so I'm just taking a few hours a night and chucking stuff in there...as are our neighbors.

I'm with you 100%.  I can't fill an entire dumpster in a timeframe that makes it feasible, but I've taken to every Saturday taking a load to the dump, then stopping at Dave's Luncheonette for breakfast.  I'm usually home before the rest of the fam is up and at 'em, so it's a win win.  I get the release from throwing shit away, and a home-cooked breakfast to boot.

Which is it?  :lol

If and/or when you come visit, we'll go to Dave's and you'll realize there is no inconsistency there at all. :) :) :)
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Chino on May 18, 2022, 12:43:12 PM
I get what you mean, Stads. The Cosmic Omelet and Uncle Bob's Ham and Eggers come to mind. Definitely "home-cooked".
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: jingle.boy on May 18, 2022, 12:47:00 PM
I was mostly being facetious - it's a nit of mine when people refer to restaurant meals as "home cooked".  The two things are literally the opposite of one another - unless Dave's Luncheonette has you sitting at his kitchen table.   :lol
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Stadler on May 18, 2022, 03:53:53 PM
I was mostly being facetious - it's a nit of mine when people refer to restaurant meals as "home cooked".  The two things are literally the opposite of one another - unless Dave's Luncheonette has you sitting at his kitchen table.   :lol

Ah, then you're right.  But at Dave's, you can see in the window to the kitchen, he'll shoot the shit with you while he cooks and you see it from skittle to counter.   It's home cooked in every sense EXCEPT I didn't sleep there the night before (Dave may have.)
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: jingle.boy on May 18, 2022, 04:43:20 PM
I was mostly being facetious - it's a nit of mine when people refer to restaurant meals as "home cooked".  The two things are literally the opposite of one another - unless Dave's Luncheonette has you sitting at his kitchen table.   :lol

Ah, then you're right.  But at Dave's, you can see in the window to the kitchen, he'll shoot the shit with you while he cooks and you see it from skittle to counter.   It's home cooked in every sense EXCEPT I didn't sleep there the night before (Dave may have.)

That's awesome.  Those places are the best.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Grappler on August 05, 2022, 11:16:38 AM
Looks like I might be buying a new house this summer. 

We closed on the home from my prior post and moved in a week ago today.  The process was smooth overall, though not without a couple of mental breakdowns from me (I've never moved from one home to another - just simple moves from home to college, to apartment, to a house).  The amount of "stuff" that we had to pack was ridiculous, and I underestimated how much we had.  That caused some issues with the movers and not having enough space in the trucks, but we fit the excess into several car-loads and made it. 

The new house is an extra 1,000 square feet than we used to have and the space is amazing.  I've been shaking my head at the laziness of the prior owners - the second night in the home, I was on a ladder at 2am to re-hang a ceiling fan that was wobbling so badly that it made a loud ticking sound all night long.  Things all around the house are missing screws or busted (like the forced air floor vents, or old door knobs that stuck so badly you could lock yourself out, despite the door being unlocked) - they spent their time and money on entertaining space.  So that's a big plus, but there are lots of little things I have to tweak and upgrade.  That caused a second breakdown yesterday as I've spent a full week stressing about packing up, moving, unpacking and starting to fix things...then trying to get back to my job, of which I missed a ton of work while off.

Today is a much better day for me and I'm finally relaxing after talking with my wife about my stress and I settling into a new routine here. 
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: jingle.boy on August 05, 2022, 12:07:13 PM
Congrats!!  The tasks never end. Key word there - NEVER.  ;D

 :|
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Stadler on August 05, 2022, 01:14:59 PM
Looks like I might be buying a new house this summer. 

We closed on the home from my prior post and moved in a week ago today.  The process was smooth overall, though not without a couple of mental breakdowns from me (I've never moved from one home to another - just simple moves from home to college, to apartment, to a house).  The amount of "stuff" that we had to pack was ridiculous, and I underestimated how much we had.  That caused some issues with the movers and not having enough space in the trucks, but we fit the excess into several car-loads and made it. 

The new house is an extra 1,000 square feet than we used to have and the space is amazing.  I've been shaking my head at the laziness of the prior owners - the second night in the home, I was on a ladder at 2am to re-hang a ceiling fan that was wobbling so badly that it made a loud ticking sound all night long.  Things all around the house are missing screws or busted (like the forced air floor vents, or old door knobs that stuck so badly you could lock yourself out, despite the door being unlocked) - they spent their time and money on entertaining space.  So that's a big plus, but there are lots of little things I have to tweak and upgrade.  That caused a second breakdown yesterday as I've spent a full week stressing about packing up, moving, unpacking and starting to fix things...then trying to get back to my job, of which I missed a ton of work while off.

Today is a much better day for me and I'm finally relaxing after talking with my wife about my stress and I settling into a new routine here.

Dude, I've done that move now... I've owned six homes.  And EVERY. SINGLE. ONE. I've gone through and painted every room and in all but one case I've changed out each switch and electrical socket (and cover).  In doing so, you always find stuff like loose fixtures, etc.   It's part of opening the "present" of your new home.  This last one, we've changed out probably 75% of the light fixtures as well, and I'll probably do a few more, as well as more detailed cleaning (I have a duct cleaner coming in not next week but the week after; another good tip for a new homeowner!)
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Grappler on August 05, 2022, 01:52:47 PM
Congrats!!  The tasks never end. Key word there - NEVER.  ;D

 :|

It's part of opening the "present" of your new home. 


I know, I just had to come to terms with it, since we spent 13 years in our prior home and updated it to our liking.  I spent $600 at Menards a few days after moving in, buying all sorts of things that we want to change out soon. 
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: jingle.boy on August 05, 2022, 02:34:40 PM
Bill… I’m with ya. Our last house (we were there 15 years, every surface was altered at least once - all walls and ceiling painted one or two times; all floors redone (including the garage). Every switch changes (don’t think I changed all the outlets tho). And definitely all fixtures (so as to match mrs.jingle’s tastes)

Been at our current home 3 years now … pretty much close to the same already. Though, I hired painters for the main floor job.

Still gotta gather some before/after pics of our landscaping reno that was just completed.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: ReaperKK on August 06, 2022, 07:25:15 AM
Congrats!!  The tasks never end. Key word there - NEVER.  ;D

 :|

Congratulations, and to echo Jingle yes they never end. We bought a house in a new development so it was brand new and the task list was never ending.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: jingle.boy on August 06, 2022, 08:00:32 AM
I'm off to build a little deck area for our dogs to sit in the shade when we're around the pool.   :lol
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: ReaperKK on August 06, 2022, 08:15:54 AM
That's awesome Jingle. We had no intentions on fencing in our yard until we got a dog, then we had to build a fence :lol
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Nick on August 06, 2022, 02:33:12 PM
A little while back I experimented in some small areas with rubber mulch. That has done really well, so today while I was at work Jennie weeded the garden and then when I got home we bought 30 bags of rubber mulch. All garden areas are looking a lot better now.

Which is nice for us, and hopefully the next folks as well. After 6 years in the same spot we've both decided we'd like to get out of our townhouse and into a single home. We're lightly looking at places as they become available. That said we want to make the next home stick, and we're in no rush, so nothing imminent. But hopefully this time next year we are in a nearby, but different spot.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: jingle.boy on August 06, 2022, 06:43:28 PM
I was looking at that rubber mulch. Hot damn it’s ‘spensive.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Nick on August 06, 2022, 06:51:53 PM
I was looking at that rubber mulch. Hot damn it’s ‘spensive.

Around here at least it wasn't too much more expensive, and I know in this case we might not see the benefit long term, but the thought of placing it once and being done really appeals to me.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: axeman90210 on August 08, 2022, 07:36:19 AM
This isn't quite home ownership, but there's no separate thread for home rentership :lol As some of you may know, just a few days ago I up and moved down to Florida (Orlando suburbs) for a job I took during the pandemic. Still unpacking and in the process of buying a bunch of furniture, but I'm pretty excited. I've got a one year lease on this place, and once I get settled and have a feel for the area I'll be turning my attention towards buying.

The exterior (car not mine)
(https://i.imgur.com/sabUKIH.jpg)

The main living room space when you first enter the house.
(https://i.imgur.com/8daViBw.jpg)
The plan here is a couple chairs near the front, records and guitars along the left wall, a counter height table in the middle, and then a tall drawer/shelf piece to serve as a bar along the back wall.

The kitchen
(https://i.imgur.com/xwHZnrr.jpg)
An electric stove is going to be a major adjustment, but overall happy with the amount of cabinet/counter space.

The family room off to the side of the kitchen
(https://i.imgur.com/8i6U0ay.jpg)
I've already got a new TV and a sound bar, they're just sitting on the floor right now. Should have a couch and an entertainment center in place by the weekend.

My bedroom
(https://i.imgur.com/0uX80Hq.jpg)
Currently sleeping on an inflatable mattress, my mattress should be arriving tomorrow (although the bed frame won't get here for a few weeks). Grabbed a nice dresser from a local antique store that fits perfectly against the back wall of the closet, so that's all loaded up.

Last but not least, the pool
(https://i.imgur.com/gVBwLER.jpg)
It looks like there's a hot tub, but as best I can tell there aren't any controls for it and it's just a separate sitting area for the pool.

Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: gmillerdrake on August 08, 2022, 09:47:19 AM
That looks fantastic!!!  I've seen that enclosed pool set up in a LOT of homes in Florida. I'm assuming it's due to a large amount of mosquitos or bugs? Or is there some other indigenous animal that is designed to keep out?

Either way....it looks like a sweet set up  :tup
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Chino on August 08, 2022, 09:48:27 AM
That looks fantastic!!!  I've seen that enclosed pool set up in a LOT of homes in Florida. I'm assuming it's due to a large amount of mosquitos or bugs? Or is there some other indigenous animal that is designed to keep out?

Either way....it looks like a sweet set up  :tup

Keeps out gators too!
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Phoenix87x on August 12, 2022, 03:14:22 PM
Do you guys think the housing market is getting ready to crash again? And if so when do you think this is going to happen?
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Nick on August 12, 2022, 06:45:24 PM
I'm hoping it crashes between us closing a deal on selling our current home and putting in an offer on our next one. :lol

Seriously though, things are coming down which is great for us since we're looking to upsize. I figure for every dollar that comes off of our current home, $1.50 is coming off of whatever we look to move into.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Stadler on August 15, 2022, 09:59:43 AM
Do you guys think the housing market is getting ready to crash again? And if so when do you think this is going to happen?

I don't think "CRASH"; I think leveling off.  Things will catch up slowly, and prices will regulate slowly. There's no real impetus for people to panic and scramble to keep their powder dry; that alone will help minimize the chances of a real crash.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: cramx3 on August 15, 2022, 12:24:50 PM
I'm no expert, but my understanding is that inventory is still low so a crash isn't too likely.  But the market will, as Stadler stated, level off due to the increased rates.  If I look on zillow, my house value is still going up, but not as crazy as it was last year.  It's definitely slowing down or leveling off. 
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Nick on August 23, 2022, 05:13:37 PM
Well, we're officially on the home-selling side of things for the first time: https://www.redfin.com/PA/Quakertown/286-Johnson-Ln-18951/home/39085736

In our last move we had weeks to get everything from our old apartment to the new house. This time will be... different.

The plan of attack right now is to sell with a contingency that we must find suitable housing, and then we must find said housing. The end result will still be us closing on our current home and then closing on a new home in the same day, with technically a few hours of homelessness. I am not looking forward to that move at all.

We're being very picky in what we're looking for in our new home, so hopefully our agent is right and we see a good bit more homes listed after Labor Day.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: King Postwhore on August 23, 2022, 07:24:44 PM
I feel a 3 bedroom for the monsters to have. Lol
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Cool Chris on August 23, 2022, 08:30:40 PM
Holy shit $245,000 for a sfr? In my zip code the median list price is $750,000.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: King Postwhore on August 23, 2022, 08:32:37 PM
That's F'ing nuts Chris!! 
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Cool Chris on August 23, 2022, 08:47:08 PM
https://thejimmychuang.com/listing/WA/Seattle/103-Bellevue-Avenue-E-a-98102/150160979

Quote
Once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to purchase a parking space in The Marq Condominium. Spacious designated parking #15 in a secure garage, easily fit a full-sized sedan. 24/7 Access. Pet-friendly building with no rental cap and high association reserves. Mere steps from lively capitol hill and everything the city has to offer! Parked and enjoy the hippest bars, restaurants, cafes, and nightlife. Light rail Station, Amazon Go, and Whole Foods Market are just a few blocks away. Not living in the building? Great investment for additional city parking or feel free to rent out. Not to be missed.

$38,000 for a parking space.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Nick on August 23, 2022, 09:15:43 PM
Holy shit $245,000 for a sfr? In my zip code the median list price is $750,000.

If it makes you feel any better (it won't), we paid 153k when we bought it in 2016.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: faizoff on August 24, 2022, 06:46:00 AM

 
This isn't quite home ownership, but there's no separate thread for home rentership :lol As some of you may know, just a few days ago I up and moved down to Florida (Orlando suburbs) for a job I took during the pandemic. Still unpacking and in the process of buying a bunch of furniture, but I'm pretty excited. I've got a one year lease on this place, and once I get settled and have a feel for the area I'll be turning my attention towards buying.


Late in replying, meant to comment earlier. Congrats on the move axeman! House looks great, extremely hot market in Orlando esp the suburbs. Good luck with your home search, I've been looking in Tampa close to two years but prices just aren't coming down in the areas I'm interested.


That looks fantastic!!! I've seen that enclosed pool set up in a LOT of homes in Florida. I'm assuming it's due to a large amount of mosquitos or bugs? Or is there some other indigenous animal that is designed to keep out?

Either way....it looks like a sweet set up  :tup


In Florida, at least in some of the cities like Orlando and Tampa, there are a billion trees planted in every subdivision. Those screens help in keeping the leaves out of the pools. Almost every pool I've seen has those screens for that purpose, the leaves getting everywhere is a pain to deal with during fall.

Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Stadler on August 24, 2022, 07:02:32 AM
Well, we're officially on the home-selling side of things for the first time: https://www.redfin.com/PA/Quakertown/286-Johnson-Ln-18951/home/39085736

In our last move we had weeks to get everything from our old apartment to the new house. This time will be... different.

The plan of attack right now is to sell with a contingency that we must find suitable housing, and then we must find said housing. The end result will still be us closing on our current home and then closing on a new home in the same day, with technically a few hours of homelessness. I am not looking forward to that move at all.

We're being very picky in what we're looking for in our new home, so hopefully our agent is right and we see a good bit more homes listed after Labor Day.

Don't rule out a closing, with a one-week residual. That used to be a deal-breaker (I would NEVER EVER let someone stay in a home that I now had title to), but it's not in today's market; we stayed in our old home for 30 days after closing a year ago.  It was a GODSEND. 
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Grappler on August 24, 2022, 11:41:59 AM
New home fun:

Prior owners advised us of an occasional sewer gas smell in the basement.  "it's just the floor drains - put water into them...."   Two weeks ago, I was over by the main sewer pipe leading out of the basement and it smelled AWFUL.  Raw sewage odors were coming from it.  Had a plumber out and he confirmed that the seal was broken.  He came by this morning to do the repairs and re-seal the connection, but he checked the condition of the sewer pipe in the ground first.  The cast iron pipe has sheared off and broken in the ground - waste water is leaching out into the soil, and if left untouched, the sewer pipe would eventually clog with TP at the break and sewage and waste water would back up into the home.  So we now have to have it dug up in the front yard/garden bed and a new pipe installed.

Thankfully, I have underground utility coverage on my homeowners insurance.  It should be covered, subject to the $500 deductible.  Much better than having to cough up the full $3,500 bill.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Nick on August 24, 2022, 06:23:55 PM
New home fun:

Prior owners advised us of an occasional sewer gas smell in the basement.  "it's just the floor drains - put water into them...."   Two weeks ago, I was over by the main sewer pipe leading out of the basement and it smelled AWFUL.  Raw sewage odors were coming from it.  Had a plumber out and he confirmed that the seal was broken.  He came by this morning to do the repairs and re-seal the connection, but he checked the condition of the sewer pipe in the ground first.  The cast iron pipe has sheared off and broken in the ground - waste water is leaching out into the soil, and if left untouched, the sewer pipe would eventually clog with TP at the break and sewage and waste water would back up into the home.  So we now have to have it dug up in the front yard/garden bed and a new pipe installed.

Thankfully, I have underground utility coverage on my homeowners insurance.  It should be covered, subject to the $500 deductible.  Much better than having to cough up the full $3,500 bill.

Not a fun situation, but you had a double positive whammy of sorting this in time and having it covered by insurance, so this should hopefully end well for you!

---

We're off to a very promising start as home sellers. Basically first tour today was from an investor who already owns several units in my townhouse HOA community. Official offer will likely come tomorrow, but basically he's going to be offering us list price with a long rentback option. Biggest thing we're waiting to see is how much per month he would plan to charge us in rent. Unless it's something astronomical our realtor is basically saying we should absolutely take this deal, and it has some major advantages.

Pros:
-No strict deadline to move out after closing.
-We can set a closing date on a new house and then stop renting ~2 weeks later, giving us a very easy move within that period.
-Ready to close in 10 days, meaning selling is done immediately and we can just 100% focus on buying.

Cons:
-I was realistically hoping to get about 5k over asking.
-We're paying more for rent than we would be for our mortgage. Based on comparable rentals, probably like $600/month. The longer we search, the more it costs us.

The ability to find our dream home with no major pressure, along with an easy move means we will 99% take this if the agreement doesn't have anything insane in it.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Nick on August 25, 2022, 04:00:12 PM
And...... we're sold. We have to get and sign a lease within 3 days, but assuming that happens, all is good.

We basically pay $600 more than our mortgage for 3 months (during which we hope to be out), and $850 more than our mortgage after that.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: lordxizor on August 26, 2022, 06:29:53 AM
And...... we're sold. We have to get and sign a lease within 3 days, but assuming that happens, all is good.

We basically pay $600 more than our mortgage for 3 months (during which we hope to be out), and $850 more than our mortgage after that.
Is it too late to stop the sale and just rent out your current home once you move out and pocket that $850 a month yourself?
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Nick on August 26, 2022, 01:15:26 PM
And...... we're sold. We have to get and sign a lease within 3 days, but assuming that happens, all is good.

We basically pay $600 more than our mortgage for 3 months (during which we hope to be out), and $850 more than our mortgage after that.
Is it too late to stop the sale and just rent out your current home once you move out and pocket that $850 a month yourself?

That's a fantastic question. Right out of the gate the thought arose from our realtor of using our current property as an investment property and buying a new house. Couple of issues. Firstly, we don't have the liquid assets to buy a new house. I mean, we could do a 3% down loan, but then it'll get loaded with PMI, we'll have a higher interest rate, and it wouldn't be ideal. Secondly there is a good chance we wouldn't get approved for a house in the range we're looking at while also holding on to our current mortgage. And lastly, is that neither of us are in a place where we want to start being landlords.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Nick on August 29, 2022, 07:49:31 PM
We have our new home. :D

https://www.redfin.com/PA/Richlandtown/144-2nd-St-18955/home/173785517

Closing our current home on Sep. 7.
Closing on our new home on Oct. 14.

We plan to utilize our rent back until ~Oct. 31 assuming our new landlord allows us to do a partial month (likely from how he's handled everything thus far), or worst case scenario until Nov. 7 if we have to do full months. So we'll have at least two weeks of overlap where we are renting our current home while also owning our new home, giving us plenty of time to transition.

Plenty of early projects being considered for the new property:
-Immediate must is transferring the charger for both of our cars to the new house.
-Finding suitable window for cats and hanging their bird feeder outside it.
-Long term definitely want some sort of catio or outdoor area for the cats.
-One cool feature about this property is the garage and house have roofs that are perpendicular to one another, meaning that one has to have a semi-ideal facing for solar. I'd definitely like to invest in that, and the roofs are only 5 years old.
-We had talked about wherever we move building a media closet, and this place has a ton of options for it. She has a ton of books and I have a ton of CDs/DVDs, so I want to build sliding shelves for everything within a closet type area. Might be hard to describe, but hopefully I can draw a sketch at some point.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: hunnus2000 on August 30, 2022, 06:20:01 AM
That's exciting!

Good luck to you and your family Nick!  :tup
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: ReaperKK on August 30, 2022, 06:22:41 AM
That's a beautiful house Nick congrats!
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Chino on August 30, 2022, 07:51:13 AM
Noice! I like how it's tucked away in its only little nook off the main road.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Grappler on August 30, 2022, 08:35:07 AM
Nice house!



I'm still waiting for my sewer issue to be completed.  Work was scheduled for Monday.  Rain on Sunday pushed it off to today, so the equipment didn't destroy our yard.

The contractor's truck broke down on the way to my house.  Rescheduled again for Thursday.   >:(

In the meantime, I have to re-arrange my work schedule so I can be home on Thursday.  I'll be missing one of my kid's preschool days tomorrow while I'm in the office.  Also, the smell in the house is worse, and with the seal broken around the pipe and wall, the smell is coming into the walls of the home.  My daughter's bedroom (2 stories above the basement) smells like a toilet.  It's awful.  She slept in our bed last night, and likely will for the next 2 nights unless the smell dissipates.

I can't wait for this to be finished. 
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: TAC on August 30, 2022, 08:38:52 AM
Nice!

Looks close enough that you can stumble home from the Gruvers Beer Bar!
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: cramx3 on August 30, 2022, 08:42:27 AM
That's a nice home and a quick sale.  Sounds like things worked out really well.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Lonk on August 30, 2022, 08:59:17 AM
Nice home, really good yard space too!
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: gmillerdrake on August 30, 2022, 09:13:40 AM
Very nice home Nick  :tup  Super exciting for you guys.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Nick on August 30, 2022, 10:14:25 AM
Nice home, really good yard space too!

Thanks everyone, and funnily enough this was one of the few strikes against the property! We wanted a small yard, but this was really nice and not huge so we were happy with it.

The other major issue the house has, is a slight oddity in its setup. The bathrooms are in the basement and 1st floor, with the intended master on first floor. Ideally we want to have a floor between my gaming/music area and the bedroom to help with sound at night since she goes to bed 2 hours before me.

So we may try to get a tiny half bath on the top floor, depending on how sound travels.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Cool Chris on August 30, 2022, 06:20:00 PM
First off... what the heck is picture 24?

Secondly, so happy to hear you found a great place. I remember when we bought our house, I went through some hard times before I met my wife, and was happy to have a roof over my head. I thought owning a home wasn't going to be in my future. It's not the biggest or grandest home, but it's our home, and I love being here. I hope you feel the same about yours. 
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: KevShmev on August 30, 2022, 07:07:55 PM
Not sure I mentioned this in this thread or not, but I bought a condo last year and moved into it last May (nearly 16 months ago). 

The basement is finished and just as nice as the upstairs.  The other day, I saw the 2nd snake in six months down there. :eek :eek

Based on the look of it and everything I have read, it was probably a ring-necked snake.  Looks more like a worm than a snake, and is fairly harmless, but it is still a bit creepy.  The advantage is that those things probably keep away other critters like spiders (amazingly, I have barely seen any of these since moving in), mice, etc.  Still, I would rather not see them.  :lol :lol

I talked to some of my neighbors last night, all of whom said they occasionally see them in their places as well and they usually just pick them up and throw them outside.  I ain't about to do that.

This means it is time to move, right?  :lol :lol
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: TAC on August 30, 2022, 07:14:55 PM
Kev, every now and then I get a snake at the bottom of my stairs leading to my basement. I usually just get some grill tongs to grab them. I actually saw a little one a few weeks ago. It was the first one I had seen in a few years.

My back yard is filled with them.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: wolfking on August 30, 2022, 07:21:46 PM
Snakes are fine.  The ones over here can kill you but they are more scared of you than them and won't attack or try to bite you unless you really try and piss them off.  I've had a few encounters. 
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: KevShmev on August 30, 2022, 07:30:27 PM
Okay, your posts are making me feel a little better about it, but it is still a bit weird.  I do have a critter control guy coming out tomorrow, so I will see what he says.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: TAC on August 30, 2022, 07:32:16 PM
He'll just use that foamy stuff to fill up any cracks along your sill.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: KevShmev on August 30, 2022, 07:32:49 PM
He'll just use that foamy stuff to fill up any cracks along your sill.

And hopefully bring some life-size bubble wrap for me. :P :lol
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: TAC on August 30, 2022, 07:35:02 PM
He'll just use that foamy stuff to fill up any cracks along your sill.

And hopefully bring some life-size bubble wrap for me. :P :lol

How are you going to let him in while you're standing on your coffee table?
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Podaar on August 30, 2022, 07:35:50 PM
Don’t listen to them , Kev. Nuke your condo from orbit. It’s the only way to be sure!
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: KevShmev on August 30, 2022, 07:49:29 PM
I may need to borrow Rick Dalton's flame thrower.

(https://c.tenor.com/6R9RCMrt_GoAAAAC/flame-thrower-leonardo-dicaprio.gif)
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: wolfking on August 30, 2022, 08:10:18 PM
Okay, your posts are making me feel a little better about it, but it is still a bit weird.  I do have a critter control guy coming out tomorrow, so I will see what he says.

I'm not sure what it's like over there, but here, they are literally everywhere, you just never really see them.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Nick on August 30, 2022, 09:06:27 PM
First off, on the snake discussion, while I have nothing against snakes, if that or anything of that size was in my home I'd want to know how it got there and stop it from happening in the future. Even if nothing else comes through that hole, wildlife related, it's still a climate control loss and a potential water issue.

First off... what the heck is picture 24?
Secondly, so happy to hear you found a great place. I remember when we bought our house, I went through some hard times before I met my wife, and was happy to have a roof over my head. I thought owning a home wasn't going to be in my future. It's not the biggest or grandest home, but it's our home, and I love being here. I hope you feel the same about yours. 

Picture 24 is a little area that leads to the sump pit and sump pump within that. Basically if a home has a decent chance that super heavy rains could lead to water in the basement (which is 95% of homes in my area), the sump pit is a hole in the lowest point for that water to gather, and then the sump pump gets that water pushed out to a place where it is no longer going to flow towards the house.

I have to say, on the second point, we are incredibly fortunate. I was very hesitant moving where we live now. I didn't want a townhouse, but going that route allowed us to get something a lot newer and nicer than we otherwise would have with a very limited budget at the time. My wife pushed for where we're at and I'm glad I gave in on it as we did really well with the space for many years. This time around we're not spending a million dollars on something ridiculous, but we had a bigger budget, stayed within it, and we both got a house we really think we can both make work for a really long time. Time will tell, but we're hopeful.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Cool Chris on August 30, 2022, 10:37:27 PM
Ah. Sump pumps exist around here, and I know a few families that have one. But I've never actually seen one. I always thought they were set up in a crawlspace.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Nick on August 31, 2022, 06:12:48 AM
Ah. Sump pumps exist around here, and I know a few families that have one. But I've never actually seen one. I always thought they were set up in a crawlspace.

I mean, it all depends on the layout of the basement, and even though this isn't a literal crawl space, it's in a random unfinished corner of the basement, so same basic premise.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: KevShmev on August 31, 2022, 06:13:58 AM
And.......I saw another one last night, this time upstairs.  :facepalm: :facepalm:

It is definitely a ring-necked snake, as I stood over it and took a good look.  Really small, like a longer worm, and with a yellow ring around its neck.  I tried to trap it with a piece of Tupperware thinking that I could show it to the critter guy later today, but when I came back out a few minutes later, it was gone.  Little dickens managed to squeeze itself out. Snakes... :lol :lol :lol

The good news is that these kind are definitely harmless, based on everything I have read, but I still want to see what I can do to keep them from showing their slimy selves.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Stadler on August 31, 2022, 08:06:54 AM
Snakes are fine.  The ones over here can kill you but they are more scared of you than them and won't attack or try to bite you unless you really try and piss them off.  I've had a few encounters.

Not sure why I'm quoting you, but I have a pond in my back yard and so I have snakes.  I've seen three of them and good size - last one was a four foot water snake, the body was about the diameter of one of those White Claw cans.  Scary, but harmless. 

I think if you have an infestation, it's worth looking at why, but if you see one every couple months or so, probably rest easy; I'm going to guess you do not have a mice problem.   Or an insect problem.  Up here I think there are only like two or three poisonous types of snakes in CT (I know of a type of rattlesnake and a type of copperhead; I think there's a water snake that is poisonous as well); you need to watch out for those but even then, they are not like boa constrictors or cobras where you die in 12 minutes without an antidote.   They only bite when attacked/threatened, and are generally harmless.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: cramx3 on August 31, 2022, 08:12:56 AM
Snakes would freak me out too.  I already don't like having the house centipedes in my basement.  Luckily my cat deals with any pests that may show up so I don't really have any issues. 
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: wolfking on August 31, 2022, 03:19:39 PM
I used to be shit scared of them, but it wasn't until my first encounter with a brown snake that made me ease up a little.  Seeing this deadly snake more scared of me made me more comfortable.  Also had an encounter with a red belly black snake and same deal, was trying to find an exit as opposed to trying to kill someone.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: cramx3 on August 31, 2022, 03:30:03 PM
My issue is I have rarely seen snakes where I live.  They do exist, gartner snakes are known to be in NJ and I've seen one only a handful of times in my life.  I feel like I'd adapt if they were more common, but maybe not.  I'm not so scared of being bitten because as you state, they are more scared of you, but they are just a creepy animal.  I never liked working with them when I worked in a pet store either even though I thought the boas were kind of cool and tame. 
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: faizoff on September 08, 2022, 09:13:33 PM
Include me in the club of home ownership to an overpriced home for some undersized sq footage on an overcrowded lot in an over supervised neighborhood.  :biggrin:




Closed on Wednesday, got a ton of shit to do now. First order of business is to redo kitchen counter tops. Man cave is probably last on the list or probably not even on it lol.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Cool Chris on September 28, 2022, 10:53:51 PM
I don't want to post the link from my local news because it autoplays a video which I hate, so just quoting modified text.

Quote
...calculating the estimated monthly payment using a 6.25% mortgage rate and 10% down payment on a 30-year mortgage... a potential buyer in these cities must make the annual income listed to purchase a "starter home"...

San Jose ($245,234)
San Francisco ($239,933)
Los Angeles ($195,294)
Honolulu ($191,109)
San Diego ($186,645)
Boston ($183,855)
Seattle ($170,170)

We should re-title this thread "The Benefits of Home Ownership if You Bought Your House More That a Few Years Ago."
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Phoenix87x on September 29, 2022, 03:33:28 AM
I don't want to post the link from my local news because it autoplays a video which I hate, so just quoting modified text.

Quote
...calculating the estimated monthly payment using a 6.25% mortgage rate and 10% down payment on a 30-year mortgage... a potential buyer in these cities must make the annual income listed to purchase a "starter home"...

San Jose ($245,234)
San Francisco ($239,933)
Los Angeles ($195,294)
Honolulu ($191,109)
San Diego ($186,645)
Boston ($183,855)
Seattle ($170,170)

We should re-title this thread "The Benefits of Home Ownership if You Bought Your House More That a Few Years Ago."

That's mental and its not any better outside the cities either.

In the PA suburbs, If you want anything more than a condemned shack on the wrong side of the tracks you are looking at $500k on average for what would have been a $300,000 or less house pre covid.

I want to have kids, but am kinda glad I don't have any at the moment since I can't afford prices like that.

Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Stadler on September 29, 2022, 08:51:05 AM
But isn't this all the "benefits of home-ownership"?  I mean, I get that you have to be able to get on the elevator, but these things are cyclical, and the point is, to get on WHEN YOU CAN.  I've been a straight up homeowner since 1999, with the exception of a few short years around the divorce.  So, yeah, maybe at any one snapshot in time it looks bad, or is hard, but over time, when the opportunities arise, be ready to move.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: cramx3 on September 29, 2022, 10:25:43 AM
True, but it still raises the bar for entry.  It's just not very easy for someone to enter the market right now. I feel very fortunate to be a 9 year home owner at this point.  One of the best decisions (both personally and financially) I've ever made.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Chino on September 29, 2022, 02:10:13 PM
True, but it still raises the bar for entry.  It's just not very easy for someone to enter the market right now. I feel very fortunate to be a 9 year home owner at this point.  One of the best decisions (both personally and financially) I've ever made.

Dude, same. In two weeks I'll have owned my house for eight years. I hate so many aspects of it, but it was still a great call. I'm so freaking thankful I did that. I have several friends who rented apartments or houses for the last several years who are looking to get into a more permanent place, and it seems miserable out there. Between rents, mortgages, and interest rates going up, you're kind of effed. I'm so glad I got the rate and price of house I did back in 2014.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: faizoff on September 29, 2022, 02:19:57 PM
I wasn't feeling that great with the ~5% rate I got last month but it's looking a lot better than ~7% that's for sure. Already getting so much work done, now due to the winds from the hurricane last night, a few shingles flew off. At least there are no leaks that I could see. I would've done them myself, but am hiring a roof guy to look at it tomorrow.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Phoenix87x on September 29, 2022, 02:23:09 PM
Say for instance, student loans actually get unfrozen in January do you see the housing prices being affected?

I would think, if suddenly people had another $1000 ish monthly payment, that's less money to go toward a house (and mortgage payments) and then the market may adjust?
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Nick on September 29, 2022, 04:10:26 PM
I see a bunch of threads on Reddit about housing values and mortgage rates and what will happen and if timing is right and such, and the answers always come down to, and I agree with, that a house (if it's your primary residence) is far more important in that capacity than as an investment. So if you find something that is right for you, and you can afford it, then that's all that matters. I know right now that rates are higher than what we agreed to a month or two ago. And I know at some point they will certainly be lower again, but at the end of the day just excited to close in two weeks on a house we're excited about.

To your exact question however, I don't think it has a *huge* effect. As people with that much being unfrozen is likely a small percentage of the overall market. 

Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: cramx3 on November 11, 2022, 03:58:27 PM
Not really a benefit, but my HVAC unit stopped working earlier this week.  A tech came by today, the motor blower failed (makes sense based on what I was experiencing). Good news, the part is covered under warranty which would have cost $3k.  Bad news, they don't have it in stock so I have a freezing weekend in my house and I still have to pay quite a bit for labor to replace it on Monday.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: jingle.boy on November 11, 2022, 07:41:57 PM
Shit always goes wrong between Friday even8ng, and Monday morning
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Grappler on November 28, 2022, 08:42:08 AM
My daughter has been hearing "footsteps" at night.  Yesterday, she said she heard it above her room, in the attic.  We've had a mouse issue in the attic over the garage and I know the prior homeowners had mice in the second story attic.  So I was going to take a few mouse traps in that attic to see if I caught anything.  I go up there yesterday evening and as I'm looking around, I look up to see this....

(https://scontent-dfw5-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/316300984_10230365585068201_3270301599681336145_n.jpg?_nc_cat=101&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=rxymdnEAao8AX-FvM7f&tn=XOAJaxyNOLkTErdp&_nc_ht=scontent-dfw5-1.xx&oh=00_AfCKLwZXccIdDMZONUDUETnbEGLvbsfZCUvQ-qefnoly0g&oe=638994CF)

I have a bat in my attic!  I thought it was a dead mouse at first, until I saw the wings on the side.  I quickly took a picture and closed up the attic before it could wake up.  I think I heard it bang around into some metal vents and ductwork at 4:45am today.  I called some wildlife companies for removal and they all told me that by law, they can't touch the bat until the spring because of the dwindling population of bats.  I can only have it removed if it gets into the living space of the home.

I'm amazed that I have to leave the thing alone and let a pest hibernate in my own attic through the winter and then get it removed in the spring.  Meanwhile, I have to hope that it doesn't find a way into the living space of my home.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: cramx3 on November 28, 2022, 09:01:32 AM
Wow, that's pretty messed up that they won't remove it.  Like, you don't need to kill it so I don't see why they can't help you.  That sucks.

But you can always go the Black Sheep route, bats are attracted to light!  :lol
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: jingle.boy on November 28, 2022, 09:03:22 AM
Surely there's a live trap or something you can bait.  I do it with chipmunks (outside) that are constantly burrowing around my foundation and under my patio.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Grappler on November 28, 2022, 09:30:47 AM
I may look into that.  One company is going to contact me to put me on the waitlist for springtime bat removal/exclusion.  It's supposed to be hibernating time for them, but I may look into some sort of trap just in case it is active.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Nick on November 28, 2022, 09:48:03 AM
Been working on the biggest project at the new house, and one of the most fun and interesting I've ever done.

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/4eaNnd0lmcKkYcQ4nrabS2bnU9cPcGuzWwADWg3L7AAeDsBqzbO7g3wQCwKyj6oSJ01dJIvtALEZYhPbWXddFzGzCYUVTBMf7DQwTFu9JQwTxTr8f7DLhbdbT99BPiUrX6o8oZhENiI=w2400)

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/1TO5OHIZbUZ6jO9MeczKn_yRFqgGBUfVW5l-JIBW7-gxRCUrYUAhsFEOQ9l89sZPOSRnJIAJofG4G_wTEGtvC1nVFvjVZHK_p2mkeK8N1sCGQgli2POjc3St6dWjukM1fHt7oVTV2lE=w2400)

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/4C8tRmxlmfhkYpzxRJtKKxZEdLW1GCDFxfMZmd4WRdgiGsiltWV-L4tBfD1zHsF46uE1938MhHtgM_BIMRdDArzyiqiLbdyJfGAYqMPADLWkcc8s1udxhPOrX71Y45ChyZj-NkUaRM4=w2400)

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/ibONHzYfWW3GB5nSSUlkaWf_PonvHQ-dAu4CFgjYDkjwPngBn6tnOxYT9ue9Ik1o2OaaKRur7JLUAGU8Tg9ztZDmi6dtcWDJotXG-8OYH8FN6W1riNPRS2640RhhV68zIC92rmvnsWM=w2400)

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/ZK1SuG3fdpk5v98CQEiXm5t-2_WZvYdKyWi3DsaQNC89IqZf6cGu171W3waA2RX2vSBfM6LCNz5KRadacEKLtZEoInOiPp2K0sapfh0VmmWJTIEpjULuLGwiyEL_kHvjm3ENC-LH0l4=w2400)

Ran short on the wire fencing, but that is supposed to arrive today. Assuming it does I'll have this done this week. Will still add stuff to the inside as time goes by, but it will be functional.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: hunnus2000 on November 28, 2022, 10:11:03 AM
^^^^^^^^^

What the heck are you building dude? A Cat walk?
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Nick on November 28, 2022, 10:13:26 AM
^^^^^^^^^

What the heck are you building dude? A Cat walk?

I mean, we call it a Catio, but basically the same thing. We have 5 cats, two will absolutely go bonkers over it, two more will likely use it regularly, especially on nice days, and the last one... well, you probably can't win them all, but hopefully she checks it out.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: jingle.boy on November 28, 2022, 10:18:30 AM
Do you have a bomb shelter?
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Chino on November 28, 2022, 10:43:37 AM
I can't see the pics!
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: gmillerdrake on November 28, 2022, 11:12:14 AM
Cool idea.....pretty neat thing for the cats to have access to.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Nick on November 28, 2022, 11:33:57 AM
Do you have a bomb shelter?

I finally have a basement, one step at a time!

Cool idea.....pretty neat thing for the cats to have access to.

Yeah, really looking forward to seeing the two boys enjoy it!

I can't see the pics!

Hmm, weird, I'll make an album for you: https://photos.app.goo.gl/J3XRLcFAPEBWHFQf8

And that actually includes all pictures thus far, not just the few I posted.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Cool Chris on November 28, 2022, 06:33:45 PM
I'd use the Castle Doctrine to justify the removal of that bat.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: TAC on November 28, 2022, 06:36:36 PM
That....is very interesting Nick.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Nick on November 28, 2022, 10:27:35 PM
I'd use the Castle Doctrine to justify the removal of that bat.

That you're allowed to eliminate anything you want as long as it's a straight line away and you have line of sight?
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Chino on November 29, 2022, 05:59:50 AM
Great job on the catio, Nick!
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Grappler on November 29, 2022, 08:01:39 AM
I'd use the Castle Doctrine to justify the removal of that bat.

I've thought about it.  I really considered bundling up and using a BBQ tongs to grab it while it sleeps and stuff it into a bag or box.  But I don't want to risk getting bitten and having to go through rabies shots.  I have a wildlife company coming today to quote and get me on the waitlist for the spring removal and exclusion (sealing up the attic better to prevent more from coming in) and any clean-up.

I don't think there is a way for it to access the living space.  It should be hibernating very soon.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: cramx3 on November 29, 2022, 08:10:23 AM
Do what I did when I took down the wasp nest that was being built on the side of my house.... wear a few layers of clothes and don't have any skin open to be bitten.   :lol
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Grappler on November 29, 2022, 08:24:20 AM
Do what I did when I took down the wasp nest that was being built on the side of my house.... wear a few layers of clothes and don't have any skin open to be bitten.   :lol

I've done that as well.  My wife wants to respect the law since it's a protected species and because bats eat mosquitos.  She also doesn't want me to risk being bitten since we have kids.  I don't mind fighting wasps or mice, but sometimes it's best to leave certain animals to the professionals.  I was just shocked to find out that something I consider to be a pest can only be removed from an attic during a certain period of time throughout the year.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: lordxizor on November 29, 2022, 09:36:16 AM
My daughter has been hearing "footsteps" at night.  Yesterday, she said she heard it above her room, in the attic.  We've had a mouse issue in the attic over the garage and I know the prior homeowners had mice in the second story attic.  So I was going to take a few mouse traps in that attic to see if I caught anything.  I go up there yesterday evening and as I'm looking around, I look up to see this....

(https://scontent-dfw5-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/316300984_10230365585068201_3270301599681336145_n.jpg?_nc_cat=101&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=rxymdnEAao8AX-FvM7f&tn=XOAJaxyNOLkTErdp&_nc_ht=scontent-dfw5-1.xx&oh=00_AfCKLwZXccIdDMZONUDUETnbEGLvbsfZCUvQ-qefnoly0g&oe=638994CF)

I have a bat in my attic!  I thought it was a dead mouse at first, until I saw the wings on the side.  I quickly took a picture and closed up the attic before it could wake up.  I think I heard it bang around into some metal vents and ductwork at 4:45am today.  I called some wildlife companies for removal and they all told me that by law, they can't touch the bat until the spring because of the dwindling population of bats.  I can only have it removed if it gets into the living space of the home.

I'm amazed that I have to leave the thing alone and let a pest hibernate in my own attic through the winter and then get it removed in the spring.  Meanwhile, I have to hope that it doesn't find a way into the living space of my home.
Can you figure out where it's getting in? If so, wait for it to fly out when it gets dark, seal it up, and it'll be stuck outside and will need to find a new home. Assuming it's going out at night. If it's not it will die before too long.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: gmillerdrake on November 29, 2022, 09:45:32 AM
Totally 'get' the need to rid the bat from your house.....the feces is not a good thing and you don't want them to make camp in your attic.

BUT.....it's good to have bats around. Those things eat literally multiple thousands of insects and mosquitos a night. I installed a 'bat house' in a very large tree behind my house on the edge of the wood line. Far enough away that they're not a nuisance but close enough to where they devour the pest insects at night.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Grappler on November 29, 2022, 09:52:03 AM
Can you figure out where it's getting in? If so, wait for it to fly out when it gets dark, seal it up, and it'll be stuck outside and will need to find a new home. Assuming it's going out at night. If it's not it will die before too long.
[/quote]

No, and there could be tons of areas where it is getting in - the house used to be wood.  I've been dealing with woodpeckers making holes in some of the wood trim pieces around the windows and having to repair those holes.  When I'm in the attic, I can see areas where there were holes in the wood that haven't been repaired, and the vinyl siding is the only covering.  So if something can get under the siding, it can work its way up to the second floor and enter the attic through numerous gaps and holes.   

The prior owners of this house didn't really keep up with things like that.  I'll eventually get to it as time allows.  Right now, I don't have much of an interest in going up in the attic while the bat is still there.   :lol
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Grappler on November 30, 2022, 07:21:39 AM
Update - the bat is gone.  The wildlife company came over to give me a quote and put me on a list for spring-time bat removal.  When the guy went up in the attic to look it over, he said there was a little guano, but not much.  The bat was in the same spot, just hanging from the peak and sleeping.  He looked at me and asked if it was ok if he removed it right then.  I told him to go ahead!   :metal

He thinks it was just a fluke and likely just had one bat up there as opposed to an infestation or a colony that had been roosting.  He did lay out some paper underneath the peak, in case some bats burrowed under the insulation to hibernate.  If they come out in the spring, we'll see clear evidence of droppings on the paper. 

Cost $225, but I was happy to be rid of the critter and now I can do some work up there this winter to fix some things that I want to address. 
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: jingle.boy on November 30, 2022, 07:58:33 AM
Good news
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Harmony on December 05, 2022, 06:24:54 PM
Do you have a bomb shelter?

I finally have a basement, one step at a time!

Cool idea.....pretty neat thing for the cats to have access to.

Yeah, really looking forward to seeing the two boys enjoy it!

I can't see the pics!

Hmm, weird, I'll make an album for you: https://photos.app.goo.gl/J3XRLcFAPEBWHFQf8

And that actually includes all pictures thus far, not just the few I posted.

Love this!  I said on the cat appreciation thread that we are considering making one as part of our next remodeling phase.  We still have to run it by our contractor though.  We may have to wait until we redo the deck but we can at least work on getting the doors installed.  Any advice for the planning phase and things to consider that we probably haven't yet?

How are the cats enjoying it?
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: faizoff on December 13, 2022, 05:54:17 AM
Do you guys have any smart devices hooked up to your home? After closing our home, I went through what all our previous owners had set up. They had a smart thermostat from American Standard for their AC and an LG oven that can connect via their app. We then bought more smart enabled appliances with Google Nest cams, doorbell and speakers. Also added LG washer and dryer that connects to the LG app as well.

I tested out one of those smart bulbs for a lamp and it's pretty cool how you can control the brightness, color temperature, etc.. They do cost more than the regular bulbs and I'm not going to bother with the rest of the house with those smart bulbs.

The amount of options available is insane and the sky is the limit with these things. Any here set anything up for their home?
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: hefdaddy42 on December 13, 2022, 07:48:04 AM
My wife is in the field of risk and compliance, so we will never ever have a lot of smart devices in our home.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Stadler on December 13, 2022, 08:12:16 AM
We have a fair amount and like them.  That said, the sooner that companies like Xfinity can have two wi-fi nets in a house the better.  It's a pain to manage.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: ReaperKK on December 13, 2022, 08:13:02 AM
Do you guys have any smart devices hooked up to your home? After closing our home, I went through what all our previous owners had set up. They had a smart thermostat from American Standard for their AC and an LG oven that can connect via their app. We then bought more smart enabled appliances with Google Nest cams, doorbell and speakers. Also added LG washer and dryer that connects to the LG app as well.

I tested out one of those smart bulbs for a lamp and it's pretty cool how you can control the brightness, color temperature, etc.. They do cost more than the regular bulbs and I'm not going to bother with the rest of the house with those smart bulbs.

The amount of options available is insane and the sky is the limit with these things. Any here set anything up for their home?

The only things I can think of is one Alexa in the bedroom, our security system, and half the house has Philips smart bulbs which are awesome.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Grappler on December 13, 2022, 08:14:54 AM
I hate smart devices.  I don't want to control a lot of things from my house via my phone, and I don't want a lot hooked up to the internet where it could get hacked (or if I lose my phone, someone would have access to my front door, etc.).  I don't mind being old school when it comes to home safety.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Chino on December 13, 2022, 08:27:47 AM
The only smart devices I have are a few outlets in my workshop that allow me to shut down my 3D printers remotely. I have a pet cam facing my printing wall that I can view from my phone, and I can remote shut down if I'm not home and I observe a problem.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: faizoff on December 13, 2022, 09:20:05 AM
My wife is in the field of risk and compliance, so we will never ever have a lot of smart devices in our home.

Any particular examples you can mention that has red flags for compliance and risk issues?
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Nick on December 13, 2022, 09:22:30 AM
Do you have a bomb shelter?

I finally have a basement, one step at a time!

Cool idea.....pretty neat thing for the cats to have access to.

Yeah, really looking forward to seeing the two boys enjoy it!

I can't see the pics!

Hmm, weird, I'll make an album for you: https://photos.app.goo.gl/J3XRLcFAPEBWHFQf8

And that actually includes all pictures thus far, not just the few I posted.

Love this!  I said on the cat appreciation thread that we are considering making one as part of our next remodeling phase.  We still have to run it by our contractor though.  We may have to wait until we redo the deck but we can at least work on getting the doors installed.  Any advice for the planning phase and things to consider that we probably haven't yet?

How are the cats enjoying it?

Two cats thus far are absolutely loving it. One in particular will go out even in the rain and/or really cold. Hell, one morning he hopped in the shower with me, got soaked, and 10 minutes later was out there in 40 degree weather.

As far as things to consider, I'd say the one thing I kind of screwed up, or might redo a bit is how I connected the catio to the house. Probably less of an issue if you put it right up against. The other thing is know going in if you want an open roof like I have or want an actual roof. If the latter you'll want clear for sunlight, but then have to worry about sloping and knowing how to put that on correctly. And keep in mind, I have no formal training in building or most of what I'm doing, so a lot of winging it, and there are probably a few things I didn't consider in this.

Do you guys have any smart devices hooked up to your home? After closing our home, I went through what all our previous owners had set up. They had a smart thermostat from American Standard for their AC and an LG oven that can connect via their app. We then bought more smart enabled appliances with Google Nest cams, doorbell and speakers. Also added LG washer and dryer that connects to the LG app as well.

I tested out one of those smart bulbs for a lamp and it's pretty cool how you can control the brightness, color temperature, etc.. They do cost more than the regular bulbs and I'm not going to bother with the rest of the house with those smart bulbs.

The amount of options available is insane and the sky is the limit with these things. Any here set anything up for their home?

I re-built my smart home within a month of moving in to our new house. Couple of key components:

Smart Hub: Used Wink in the past and SmartThings now, spend a few $ to get a good hub so you have full Z-Wave/Zigbee support. Will greatly increase your product availability as opposed to relying on WiFi.

Smart Lock: I use Schlage Connect. Hate having to use keys, haven't used a home key in 5 years. My car doesn't use a key. I keep 1 key in my wallet for the main door at work and that's it.

Smart Switches: You can use bulbs for temperature/brightness control, but I greatly prefer wiring in smart switches (using Zigbee GE switches right now) for lighting control so you still easily have a normal switch option as well as smart control.

Smart Doorbell: Used to use Ring, but have happily switches to Nest on the new home. Been working great, and I have the version for homes without doorbell wiring.

Smart Thermostat: Used Nest previously, but heating system in the new house is primarily a pellet stove which doesn't work with that. However if your system is compatible, highly recommend Nest. 

Smart Cameras: Wyze. Dirt cheap good cameras. Doesn't integrate as well with other stuff, but for $20 you can basically get a constant feed on anything.

My favorite thing about pulling it all together is automations and routines. I have a 4 button widget on my phone. First one is for leaving the house, shuts off all lights and locks the doors. Next is for coming home during the day, just unlocks the back door. Then for coming home at night, unlocks and turns on certain lights. And finally sleep, which locks doors and turns off all switches except for the bedroom fan. And all those can be voice command activated as well. I suppose I should have noted earlier almost every room as a Google mini, speaker, or screen hub. Kitchen in particular has one with a screen that makes cooking and setting timers super helpful.

Lastly I can smart link certain things, in the new house that has been helpful on some lights that should go together, but are wired on different switches. So on the smart end of things I'm able to link them so if one turns on/off it sends a command to the other to do the same, and like magic it's like they are on the same switch.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Orbert on December 13, 2022, 09:43:26 AM
I hate smart devices.  I don't want to control a lot of things from my house via my phone, and I don't want a lot hooked up to the internet where it could get hacked (or if I lose my phone, someone would have access to my front door, etc.).  I don't mind being old school when it comes to home safety.

This is me, almost.  I won't use the word "hate" because I really just don't care about them.  If other people want to control their appliances, lights, whatever, from their phones, fine.  But I have no need, and no desire.  The security issues are the biggest concern.  I'm not going to be out somewhere and suddenly remember that I didn't lock the front door or change the thermostat.  I did that before I left, and if I didn't, I'll live with the consequences.  If it's on the Internet, it can be hacked.  If it's on my phone, someone else gets it if I lose my phone (which has never happened, but you never know for sure).

If the only way to lock or unlock my front door is by turning a key or lever, that's as secure as I'm gonna be.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Chino on December 13, 2022, 10:06:13 AM
I feel like I'm getting old. I just closed on a home equity line of credit and it's kind of exciting  :lol

I've had to put a number of unexpected vet bills and home repairs on Lowes and Costco credit cards ranging from 18%-21% interest. The line of credit is only 6.8% interest (wish I got it a year ago - would have probably been in the 4s.), and I plan on consolidating all my debt into that line. My interest payments have been a gut punch lately. 

Is there anything to know/be cognizant of with a HELoC that I might not be thinking/aware of?
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Stadler on December 13, 2022, 10:11:56 AM
I feel like I'm getting old. I just closed on a home equity line of credit and it's kind of exciting  :lol

I've had to put a number of unexpected vet bills and home repairs on Lowes and Costco credit cards ranging from 18%-21% interest. The line of credit is only 6.8% interest (wish I got it a year ago - would have probably been in the 4s.), and I plan on consolidating all my debt into that line. My interest payments have been a gut punch lately. 

Is there anything to know/be cognizant of with a HELoC that I might not be thinking/aware of?

Only thing I can think of is expiration date/balloon payment.  My dad had one on his condo, and he was making the interest-only payments religiously, and added in a little extra to cover some principal, but it didn't buy down the whole nut.  The line expired and he had a balloon payment that he couldn't liquidate.  So we renegotiated another loan - this time more of a second mortgage - to cover the remaining amount. Not earth-shattering or career-ending, but still a pain in the ass, especially when coupled with all the other stuff we went through (and which I wrote about here). 
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: cramx3 on December 13, 2022, 10:23:20 AM
No smart devices in my house.  I'm really not into that kind of stuff, although a Ring would be something I'd consider or some sort of basic security cameras.  I'm not too worried about being robbed or anything, but there has been increased home entries in my area lately that have made me consider the idea.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Chino on December 13, 2022, 10:42:54 AM
I feel like I'm getting old. I just closed on a home equity line of credit and it's kind of exciting  :lol

I've had to put a number of unexpected vet bills and home repairs on Lowes and Costco credit cards ranging from 18%-21% interest. The line of credit is only 6.8% interest (wish I got it a year ago - would have probably been in the 4s.), and I plan on consolidating all my debt into that line. My interest payments have been a gut punch lately. 

Is there anything to know/be cognizant of with a HELoC that I might not be thinking/aware of?

Only thing I can think of is expiration date/balloon payment.  My dad had one on his condo, and he was making the interest-only payments religiously, and added in a little extra to cover some principal, but it didn't buy down the whole nut.  The line expired and he had a balloon payment that he couldn't liquidate.  So we renegotiated another loan - this time more of a second mortgage - to cover the remaining amount. Not earth-shattering or career-ending, but still a pain in the ass, especially when coupled with all the other stuff we went through (and which I wrote about here).

I'm 99.99% certain there's not a balloon condition on my line of credit. I believe it's open indefinitely (mortgage and LOC are through the same bank), the only stipulation being a renegotiation of the interest amount on a certain date. I believe it's 10 years. If I pay the balance off in less than a year, I have pay a $400 penalty because the bank doesn't get as much interest as they would have like/planned on. There's also a condition in there that I need to have the balance paid off before selling my house if I were to do that at any point in the future.   

I'm going to go back though and look for anything about a balloon payment. I had one on my Mini Cooper and it was pain in the ass when the engine decided to shit itself a year earlier than I was hoping it would. I had to get a new car and pay off that balloon payment ($6K) at the same time. The Mini was worth nowhere close to that dollar amount on account of the blown engine. It sucked. 
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: hefdaddy42 on December 13, 2022, 11:05:38 AM
My wife is in the field of risk and compliance, so we will never ever have a lot of smart devices in our home.

Any particular examples you can mention that has red flags for compliance and risk issues?
I don't know about compliance, but plenty of risk.

A bad actor doesn't have to hack your bank account directly.  They have access by hacking your fridge, or your thermostat, or whatever smart device you have.  Once they do that, they can get to everything else.  When it's all connected, it's all vulnerable.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: jingle.boy on December 13, 2022, 02:02:20 PM
We have a fair amount and like them.  That said, the sooner that companies like Xfinity can have two wi-fi nets in a house the better.  It's a pain to manage.

Just buy some mesh routers yourself.  I've got Deco branded ones, that also carry IP signals through the electrical between the routers.  I used to think that was BS, but the strength of the wifi signal coming out of my pool shed in the summer begs to differ.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: jingle.boy on December 13, 2022, 02:07:08 PM
I feel like I'm getting old. I just closed on a home equity line of credit and it's kind of exciting  :lol

I've had to put a number of unexpected vet bills and home repairs on Lowes and Costco credit cards ranging from 18%-21% interest. The line of credit is only 6.8% interest (wish I got it a year ago - would have probably been in the 4s.), and I plan on consolidating all my debt into that line. My interest payments have been a gut punch lately. 

Is there anything to know/be cognizant of with a HELoC that I might not be thinking/aware of?

Only thing I can think of is expiration date/balloon payment.  My dad had one on his condo, and he was making the interest-only payments religiously, and added in a little extra to cover some principal, but it didn't buy down the whole nut.  The line expired and he had a balloon payment that he couldn't liquidate.  So we renegotiated another loan - this time more of a second mortgage - to cover the remaining amount. Not earth-shattering or career-ending, but still a pain in the ass, especially when coupled with all the other stuff we went through (and which I wrote about here).

I'm 99.99% certain there's not a balloon condition on my line of credit. I believe it's open indefinitely (mortgage and LOC are through the same bank), the only stipulation being a renegotiation of the interest amount on a certain date. I believe it's 10 years. If I pay the balance off in less than a year, I have pay a $400 penalty because the bank doesn't get as much interest as they would have like/planned on. There's also a condition in there that I need to have the balance paid off before selling my house if I were to do that at any point in the future.   

I'm going to go back though and look for anything about a balloon payment. I had one on my Mini Cooper and it was pain in the ass when the engine decided to shit itself a year earlier than I was hoping it would. I had to get a new car and pay off that balloon payment ($6K) at the same time. The Mini was worth nowhere close to that dollar amount on account of the blown engine. It sucked.

I had an unsecured HELOC with my mortgage for years, and always used it to pay down my credit card debt.  There's really no other way to go.  I assume your HELOC is unsecured?  And to that end, you have a fixed rate?  Nice.  US banks are very generous.  Even with a secured HELOC (since I own my house),  it's still "variable" Prime +.75% I think.  The only condition on my HELOC is that the proceeds of the sale of my house must go to pay any outstanding HELOC balance.  I just had the bank re-appraise my house/property earlier in the summer so that I could take advantage of the real estate boom lately, and increase my HELOC limit.  Let's just say I'l NEVER come anywhere close to hitting it.

I remember that story about your Mini  :tdwn. 
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Cool Chris on December 13, 2022, 11:49:48 PM
If the only way to lock or unlock my front door is by turning a key or lever, that's as secure as I'm gonna be.

That's about where I'm at in my life. In some ways, I am very gadget-y, but not when it comes to home automation. My front door and back slider are always locked unless we are working/playing in the yard, and we enter/leave through the garage. I can manage everything else by hand.

I do have a security camera on my porch, and the wife and kids each have an Echo Dot (sigh...) but they only use one for occasional music listening. 
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Chino on December 14, 2022, 06:21:33 AM
I feel like I'm getting old. I just closed on a home equity line of credit and it's kind of exciting  :lol

I've had to put a number of unexpected vet bills and home repairs on Lowes and Costco credit cards ranging from 18%-21% interest. The line of credit is only 6.8% interest (wish I got it a year ago - would have probably been in the 4s.), and I plan on consolidating all my debt into that line. My interest payments have been a gut punch lately. 

Is there anything to know/be cognizant of with a HELoC that I might not be thinking/aware of?

Only thing I can think of is expiration date/balloon payment.  My dad had one on his condo, and he was making the interest-only payments religiously, and added in a little extra to cover some principal, but it didn't buy down the whole nut.  The line expired and he had a balloon payment that he couldn't liquidate.  So we renegotiated another loan - this time more of a second mortgage - to cover the remaining amount. Not earth-shattering or career-ending, but still a pain in the ass, especially when coupled with all the other stuff we went through (and which I wrote about here).

I'm 99.99% certain there's not a balloon condition on my line of credit. I believe it's open indefinitely (mortgage and LOC are through the same bank), the only stipulation being a renegotiation of the interest amount on a certain date. I believe it's 10 years. If I pay the balance off in less than a year, I have pay a $400 penalty because the bank doesn't get as much interest as they would have like/planned on. There's also a condition in there that I need to have the balance paid off before selling my house if I were to do that at any point in the future.   

I'm going to go back though and look for anything about a balloon payment. I had one on my Mini Cooper and it was pain in the ass when the engine decided to shit itself a year earlier than I was hoping it would. I had to get a new car and pay off that balloon payment ($6K) at the same time. The Mini was worth nowhere close to that dollar amount on account of the blown engine. It sucked.

I had an unsecured HELOC with my mortgage for years, and always used it to pay down my credit card debt.  There's really no other way to go.  I assume your HELOC is unsecured?  And to that end, you have a fixed rate?  Nice.  US banks are very generous.  Even with a secured HELOC (since I own my house),  it's still "variable" Prime +.75% I think.  The only condition on my HELOC is that the proceeds of the sale of my house must go to pay any outstanding HELOC balance.  I just had the bank re-appraise my house/property earlier in the summer so that I could take advantage of the real estate boom lately, and increase my HELOC limit.  Let's just say I'l NEVER come anywhere close to hitting it.

I remember that story about your Mini  :tdwn.

Yeah. I have a fixed rate for 10 years, and then it gets renegotiated to whatever the current market rate is. That could come back to bite me on the ass, but we'll have to wait and see. 

"The only condition on my HELOC is that the proceeds of the sale of my house must go to pay any outstanding HELOC balance."

That's how mine is as well. I worded it terribly.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: TAC on December 14, 2022, 06:33:04 AM
Renegotiating in 10 years is good. I think our HELOC was fixed for a certain amount of time, but then became variable.

We rolled whatever was left on our mortgage and HELOC into one mortgage a couple of years ago when the rates were rock bottom.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Stadler on December 14, 2022, 10:11:11 AM
We have a fair amount and like them.  That said, the sooner that companies like Xfinity can have two wi-fi nets in a house the better.  It's a pain to manage.

Just buy some mesh routers yourself.  I've got Deco branded ones, that also carry IP signals through the electrical between the routers.  I used to think that was BS, but the strength of the wifi signal coming out of my pool shed in the summer begs to differ.

But I was wanting two separate networks:  Log all the home automation into "Stadler's Home Automation WiFi Network" and log all the computers and phones and guests into "Stadler's Infotainment WiFi Network".   As I understand it I can't have two separate, autonomous WiFi networks in one home off one account.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Stadler on December 14, 2022, 10:12:21 AM
I feel like I'm getting old. I just closed on a home equity line of credit and it's kind of exciting  :lol

I've had to put a number of unexpected vet bills and home repairs on Lowes and Costco credit cards ranging from 18%-21% interest. The line of credit is only 6.8% interest (wish I got it a year ago - would have probably been in the 4s.), and I plan on consolidating all my debt into that line. My interest payments have been a gut punch lately. 

Is there anything to know/be cognizant of with a HELoC that I might not be thinking/aware of?

Only thing I can think of is expiration date/balloon payment.  My dad had one on his condo, and he was making the interest-only payments religiously, and added in a little extra to cover some principal, but it didn't buy down the whole nut.  The line expired and he had a balloon payment that he couldn't liquidate.  So we renegotiated another loan - this time more of a second mortgage - to cover the remaining amount. Not earth-shattering or career-ending, but still a pain in the ass, especially when coupled with all the other stuff we went through (and which I wrote about here).

I'm 99.99% certain there's not a balloon condition on my line of credit. I believe it's open indefinitely (mortgage and LOC are through the same bank), the only stipulation being a renegotiation of the interest amount on a certain date. I believe it's 10 years. If I pay the balance off in less than a year, I have pay a $400 penalty because the bank doesn't get as much interest as they would have like/planned on. There's also a condition in there that I need to have the balance paid off before selling my house if I were to do that at any point in the future.   

I'm going to go back though and look for anything about a balloon payment. I had one on my Mini Cooper and it was pain in the ass when the engine decided to shit itself a year earlier than I was hoping it would. I had to get a new car and pay off that balloon payment ($6K) at the same time. The Mini was worth nowhere close to that dollar amount on account of the blown engine. It sucked.

I had an unsecured HELOC with my mortgage for years, and always used it to pay down my credit card debt.  There's really no other way to go.  I assume your HELOC is unsecured?  And to that end, you have a fixed rate?  Nice.  US banks are very generous.  Even with a secured HELOC (since I own my house),  it's still "variable" Prime +.75% I think.  The only condition on my HELOC is that the proceeds of the sale of my house must go to pay any outstanding HELOC balance.  I just had the bank re-appraise my house/property earlier in the summer so that I could take advantage of the real estate boom lately, and increase my HELOC limit.  Let's just say I'l NEVER come anywhere close to hitting it.

I remember that story about your Mini  :tdwn.

Not calling you out, just wanting to understand... how do you have a HELOC that isn't secured?   If it's tied to the equity in your home, isn't by definition that a secured loan? 
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: jingle.boy on December 14, 2022, 11:00:11 AM
I don't know.  It's just the kind of products the banks up here offer.  In my mind, prior to owning the house outright, it's backed by the equity I have (had) in my home, but because I don't have 100% ownership of the asset, it's an unsecured (and thus, lower limit / higher interest rate) loan.  If I default against my HELOC payments, they don't have an asset to put a lien on against me - thus it's an unsecured loan (in the eyes of the bank)

Now that I own the house, If I default against the HELOC, they can put a lien on the house, and be guaranteed they get their coin as a secured creditor.

I think that's the gist of how it works.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Stadler on December 14, 2022, 11:08:19 AM
I don't know.  It's just the kind of products the banks up here offer.  In my mind, prior to owning the house outright, it's backed by the equity I have (had) in my home, but because I don't have 100% ownership of the asset, it's an unsecured (and thus, lower limit / higher interest rate) loan.  If I default against my HELOC payments, they don't have an asset to put a lien on against me - thus it's an unsecured loan (in the eyes of the bank)

Now that I own the house, If I default against the HELOC, they can put a lien on the house, and be guaranteed they get their coin as a secured creditor.

I think that's the gist of how it works.

Here, generally speaking, "equity" is that portion which you DO own, and if you default on your obligations, the home (to the extent of the equity) is fair game, only the HELOC is subordinate to the primary mortgage, if any.  Anything else is just a regular credit line and usually significantly higher in interest rate than a HELOC (which can be commensurate with a regular mortgage).
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: jingle.boy on December 14, 2022, 12:10:01 PM
Fair enough.  Whether it was technically a HELOC, or just an unsecured Line of Credit marketed as kind-of-a-HELOC, it's what the bank called it.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: jingle.boy on December 14, 2022, 12:15:07 PM
But to your point, I'm not sure how an institution can "secure" a loan to an asset the loanee don't fully own.  Any "equity" in a home is only as good as the potential selling price.  So, if market says my house is worth $500k; my mortgage balance is $300k, it's not like I have actual equity of $200k that a bank can secure their loan against.  That $200k is unrealized, and the mortgage issuer has first rights to their money over any other loan.  I default and walk away from my house or file for bankruptcy, the HELOC issuer is boned.  Mortgage issuer gets the property.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Nick on December 14, 2022, 12:21:50 PM
But to your point, I'm not sure how an institution can "secure" a loan to an asset the loanee don't fully own.  Any "equity" in a home is only as good as the potential selling price.  So, if market says my house is worth $500k; my mortgage balance is $300k, it's not like I have actual equity of $200k that a bank can secure their loan against.  That $200k is unrealized, and the mortgage issuer has first rights to their money over any other loan.  I default and walk away from my house or file for bankruptcy, the HELOC issuer is boned.  Mortgage issuer gets the property.

Keep in mind, I may be completely off base on this, but I believe that's not quite how it works. In that instance the bank can't just walk away with 200k because someone stopped making payments. In this instance if the bank sells the house, and walk away with 150k (lower price for quick sell, agent fees, whatever), and there is a 50k HELOC, they would have to hand that 50k over at this time, I believe.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Samsara on December 14, 2022, 12:32:26 PM
we will never ever have a lot of smart devices in our home.

Same.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: cramx3 on December 14, 2022, 01:13:13 PM
we will never ever have a lot of smart devices in our home.

Same.

I can't say never ever to this.  Things change very fast these days with tech.  I'm not into the smart home stuff today, but I can't rule out 10 years from now.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Nick on December 14, 2022, 02:05:50 PM
we will never ever have a lot of smart devices in our home.

Same.

I can't say never ever to this.  Things change very fast these days with tech.  I'm not into the smart home stuff today, but I can't rule out 10 years from now.

Plus, you don't want to run the risk of sounding extremely old like the other two. :D
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: hefdaddy42 on December 14, 2022, 02:23:51 PM
har de har
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Stadler on December 15, 2022, 07:36:42 AM
Is there a smart device to keep those damn kids off my lawn?
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Chino on December 15, 2022, 07:38:09 AM
Is there a smart device to keep those damn kids off my lawn?

Yup!
https://youtu.be/J9GsispJr74?t=148
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Stadler on December 15, 2022, 07:44:12 AM
Is there a smart device to keep those damn kids off my lawn?

Yup!
https://youtu.be/J9GsispJr74?t=148

I'M IN!!!!
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: ReaperKK on December 15, 2022, 08:45:18 AM
So speaking of smart devices are new appliances just came in which are wifi enabled for some reason.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: jingle.boy on December 15, 2022, 08:56:13 AM
Is there a smart device to keep those damn kids off my lawn?

Yup!
https://youtu.be/J9GsispJr74?t=148

I'M IN!!!!

What the hell is the town/city doing just ending the sidewalk right in the middle of his lawn??
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: lordxizor on December 15, 2022, 10:47:44 AM
But to your point, I'm not sure how an institution can "secure" a loan to an asset the loanee don't fully own.  Any "equity" in a home is only as good as the potential selling price.  So, if market says my house is worth $500k; my mortgage balance is $300k, it's not like I have actual equity of $200k that a bank can secure their loan against.  That $200k is unrealized, and the mortgage issuer has first rights to their money over any other loan.  I default and walk away from my house or file for bankruptcy, the HELOC issuer is boned.  Mortgage issuer gets the property.

Keep in mind, I may be completely off base on this, but I believe that's not quite how it works. In that instance the bank can't just walk away with 200k because someone stopped making payments. In this instance if the bank sells the house, and walk away with 150k (lower price for quick sell, agent fees, whatever), and there is a 50k HELOC, they would have to hand that 50k over at this time, I believe.
The banks don't get to keep your equity. In this scenario, the primary mortgage holder forces the sale of the home (likely at lower than normal market value) and gets to keep the first $300k plus fees. HELOC is next in line and they get their loan repaid plus fees. Anything left over at that point goes to the homeowner that defaulted on their mortgage.  In this scenario it's far better for the homeowner to just sell their house if they have more equity than their mortgage plus HELOC. It's when the homeowner is underwater that banks get nothing.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: jingle.boy on December 15, 2022, 12:18:26 PM
But to your point, I'm not sure how an institution can "secure" a loan to an asset the loanee don't fully own.  Any "equity" in a home is only as good as the potential selling price.  So, if market says my house is worth $500k; my mortgage balance is $300k, it's not like I have actual equity of $200k that a bank can secure their loan against.  That $200k is unrealized, and the mortgage issuer has first rights to their money over any other loan.  I default and walk away from my house or file for bankruptcy, the HELOC issuer is boned.  Mortgage issuer gets the property.

Keep in mind, I may be completely off base on this, but I believe that's not quite how it works. In that instance the bank can't just walk away with 200k because someone stopped making payments. In this instance if the bank sells the house, and walk away with 150k (lower price for quick sell, agent fees, whatever), and there is a 50k HELOC, they would have to hand that 50k over at this time, I believe.
The banks don't get to keep your equity. In this scenario, the primary mortgage holder forces the sale of the home (likely at lower than normal market value) and gets to keep the first $300k plus fees. HELOC is next in line and they get their loan repaid plus fees. Anything left over at that point goes to the homeowner that defaulted on their mortgage.  In this scenario it's far better for the homeowner to just sell their house if they have more equity than their mortgage plus HELOC. It's when the homeowner is underwater that banks get nothing.

Right ... and I didn't mean to suggest the HELOC issue is COMPLETELY boned, but they are at least second in line, and with no guarantee as to what equity might be left over, they might be slightly boned.

Like I said, maybe my "unsecured" LOC was just marketed to me as a HELOC.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Stadler on December 15, 2022, 01:15:30 PM
But to your point, I'm not sure how an institution can "secure" a loan to an asset the loanee don't fully own.  Any "equity" in a home is only as good as the potential selling price.  So, if market says my house is worth $500k; my mortgage balance is $300k, it's not like I have actual equity of $200k that a bank can secure their loan against.  That $200k is unrealized, and the mortgage issuer has first rights to their money over any other loan.  I default and walk away from my house or file for bankruptcy, the HELOC issuer is boned.  Mortgage issuer gets the property.

Keep in mind, I may be completely off base on this, but I believe that's not quite how it works. In that instance the bank can't just walk away with 200k because someone stopped making payments. In this instance if the bank sells the house, and walk away with 150k (lower price for quick sell, agent fees, whatever), and there is a 50k HELOC, they would have to hand that 50k over at this time, I believe.
The banks don't get to keep your equity. In this scenario, the primary mortgage holder forces the sale of the home (likely at lower than normal market value) and gets to keep the first $300k plus fees. HELOC is next in line and they get their loan repaid plus fees. Anything left over at that point goes to the homeowner that defaulted on their mortgage.  In this scenario it's far better for the homeowner to just sell their house if they have more equity than their mortgage plus HELOC. It's when the homeowner is underwater that banks get nothing.

Right ... and I didn't mean to suggest the HELOC issue is COMPLETELY boned, but they are at least second in line, and with no guarantee as to what equity might be left over, they might be slightly boned.

Like I said, maybe my "unsecured" LOC was just marketed to me as a HELOC.

Here, that $200k is not considered wholly unrealized.  Banks use appraisals to quantity that amount, and most lenders will use some percentage of "L/E" (Loan to equity).  80% is common. 90% is not unheard of.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: jingle.boy on December 15, 2022, 04:58:49 PM
That's crazy.  Even my existing HELOC (secured against my house), only goes to 65% of the appraised value - which the bank appraises, and they already low-ball the market value.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: lordxizor on December 15, 2022, 06:34:12 PM
I can say from personal experience that a secondary lien holder can and will sue a homeowner going through a foreclosure if they believe that can recoup something that way since they'll get nothing from a foreclosure sale. The 2008 crash wasn't super kind to us.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: cramx3 on February 27, 2023, 10:04:32 AM
Big changes been happening at my house.  Last November my gf made it known she wanted to move in so we started putting some things in motion to make that happen.  A month ago we had a dumpster for the weekend, cleared out soooo much stuff from my house. We filled the entire dumpster.

Then my gf's dad came by in a borrowed pick up and we did a few rounds dumping two sets of couches I had in my house.

Then yesterday we finished going through all cabinets and every other nook and cranny in the house to get rid of garbage and free up space.

Today we have painters starting the paint job for almost the entire house.  There's lots of wall damages throughout too (from having a huge fish tank, or from my brother breaking the bedroom wall somehow, and just basic wear and tear from the kitchen).  So they are fixing all the walls and then painting.

We went couch shopping over the weekend and found one we love, it'll be delivered in a couple weeks, well after the paint job is finished.

Looks like my gf is moving in after I get back from Singapore in a couple weeks and my house will be fresh and feeling new. Exciting times, but its been busy with the house work.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Stadler on February 27, 2023, 10:06:07 AM
That's awesome!!!   Congratulations.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: cramx3 on February 27, 2023, 10:11:09 AM
Thanks, it's been a much needed overhaul. 
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: lordxizor on February 27, 2023, 10:11:30 AM
Sounds like a great change!

It would be happiest day of my life (almost literally) if I could fill up a dumpster with extra crap from our house that I don't want. My wife and my biggest disagreement is the amount of stuff that is reasonable to have around.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: cramx3 on February 27, 2023, 11:10:32 AM
Yeah, I'm pretty big on not holding onto junk, but I ended up collecting a bunch from my brother living with me for awhile and when my parents moved to florida a lot of their junk ended up in my basement and even from when my x moved out like 8 years ago.  My mother was so jealous because my dad is the one who refuses to get rid of things, and my mom wishes she could get a dumpster for my dads stuff.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Podaar on February 28, 2023, 06:16:24 AM
@ cramx3

Awesome news about the refresh. I'm a believer in making changes to your environment that are mutual. Helps to make a home for the both of you.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: cramx3 on February 28, 2023, 08:02:19 AM
@ cramx3

Awesome news about the refresh. I'm a believer in making changes to your environment that are mutual. Helps to make a home for the both of you.

I would say what has made this transition not bad is that my gf and I have been on the same page.  She's mostly driving this if I'm being honest but she has been great at noticing when I'm needing to slow things down and she'll hit the brakes a bit. Our communication has been good and we've both been agreeing on things.  She's getting her own room in my house because she works from home, so that's her office which means she isn't forcing me to like give up my closet for example.  Like the ltitle things, we've easily come to agreement on.  My only push backs have been to take our time with this, she lives with her parents so it's not like she has to be out or deal with a lease, so my only concern was not to rush things.  Do it right and not let either of us get stressed about it.  So far it's been great. 

Sadly, my cat is having the most trouble adjusting  :lol
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Cool Chris on March 01, 2023, 09:13:55 PM
Our communication has been good and we've both been agreeing on things.  She's getting her own room in my house because she works from home, so that's her office which means she isn't forcing me to like give up my closet for example. Like the ltitle things, we've easily come to agreement on

Can a mod archive this post so we can follow up on it in a few years to see how well it's holding up? :p
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: cramx3 on March 02, 2023, 07:31:00 AM
Our communication has been good and we've both been agreeing on things.  She's getting her own room in my house because she works from home, so that's her office which means she isn't forcing me to like give up my closet for example. Like the ltitle things, we've easily come to agreement on

Can a mod archive this post so we can follow up on it in a few years to see how well it's holding up? :p

 :lol oh for sure, but starting off that way is a good beginning

And I'm a little bit annoyed by a delay in the paint job on my house because the guy didn't actually source the paint before he started  :facepalm: should be done tomorrow though, it's just annoying because I won't be there to give the final say if it's good or if I have issues before we give the final payment.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Harmony on May 30, 2023, 09:35:59 PM
So we are entering phase 3 of our home remodeling adventure.  This time it is the main bedroom/bath which includes a jetted tub replacement.  Part of the bedroom - where the bed and furniture is - is sunken.  You take 2 steps down into that part from the entry level which includes tub, small room with shower stall and commode, vanity, and closets.  The sunken area of the bedroom has very high ceilings - up to the height of the 2 story home.  It is a very large and open room.

We are planning to bring the ceiling down a bit in an a-frame design with a wood beam down the center.  This matches other styles throughout the home and will bring continuity to the space.  We will also finally be able to have a nice ceiling fan.

We love our contractor.  He's old school, very reliable and we have been extremely happy with his work on the other phases of our home.  His wife is a realtor in the area and so she's a great resource as to what is hot on the market and gets to go to all the swanky new homes and see what is trending.  They actually buy and flip houses on the side.  This guy is such a workaholic!

So we trust that they know what they are doing.  And he knows me and my husband are getting ready to retire so we are an aging couple and are looking to make little changes to help us adapt over the next phase of our lives.  He is suggesting that we bring up the floor in the main bedroom.  It would definitely be safer for an older person no doubt.  But I am a little concerned that lowering the ceiling and raising the floor is going to make our nice big bedroom space, smaller and less interesting.  I know it sounds like this could be a money grab, but he says it will only add about a grand to the final quote.

I'm just curious as to any thoughts some of you homeowners may have.  Maybe someone here has had to tackle something similar?  It feels like such a big decision.  My rational brain says function over style.  But having a sunken bedroom is unique and interesting.  My creative side is saying, "Don't do it!" 

Aside - We are also getting part of our quote to add a catio off the bedroom and onto our deck.  We'll see if it fits into the budget but we are definitely putting in the cat door now to make this happen down the line if not now.  I'm so excited!!
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Cool Chris on May 30, 2023, 10:44:59 PM
Contractor here... can't say I've been part of a project that leveled out a sunken room. I guess the major (only?) practical value would be for fewer stairs for elderly people to manage. Is the ceiling lowering purely for aesthetics, and the ceiling fan? We've done a lot of work at a house that has a master bedroom that I imagine is what you are working towards. The ceiling was about 12' at its apex, with a beam and fan. It seems plenty big to me. I don't know if I've seen any bedrooms with ceilings much higher.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Podaar on May 31, 2023, 05:08:25 AM
In my mind, it depends on the size of the sunken area. Does it basically cover the entire room with just a walkway around, or is it only, say, half of the floorspace?

I think I'd agree with the contractor and make it all one level, for two reasons. Two levels are impractical and don't really add anything to the decor without a lot of expense. Sunken floors give me a 70's, Hugh Hefner, swanky, chinky-chinky-chow, vibe.  :)
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: cramx3 on May 31, 2023, 08:30:49 AM
Just my opinion here and I'm no building engineer or anything but you mentioned already being in a two story house. So I'm assuming you walk up a flight a stairs already to get to the bed room.  If doing that flight of stairs is any concern for you as you are getting older, than maybe those extra couple steps in the bedroom should be taken care of.  If you both have great legs and the stairs are not an issue.  I don't think I'd mess with it.  I guess the next question, on a similar note, do you have any history of falling or issues with those steps?  If so, maybe raise it.  Do you worry about being able to see the stairs as you get older, if so, maybe you should raise it.  If you feel perfectly safe about those stairs, then I wouldn't do it.  I'm pretty big of "don't fix what's not broken".
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Nick on May 31, 2023, 10:43:42 AM
A timely bump of this thread.

So basically prior to us buying our house there was a massive tree in the yard that was cut down. But instead of having the stump removed, they opted to leave it decorated instead. Just like the tree in the front of the house, it had mulch around it, and then a ring of larger stones. Although we now have a sizeable yard, it always bothered me that this thing is smack dab in the middle of it. So I decided to get rid of it. Easier said then done.

First step was I took the stones and mulch from the stump and doubled up what was around the tree in front. Easy. Then I decided I'd chip away with a chainsaw. Not so easy. Between the massive size and any dirt immediately dulling my blades, it quickly turned from "I can knock this out if I just do it a bit each day" to "there is no fucking way this is happening." So, time to finally test the hitch that had been unused on my care for 2.5 years now. Rented a grinder and a trailer to get it home. Took a solid 2.5-3 hours of grinding work.

I moved about 5 wagon loads to the other tree. I loaded 5 big moving crates full of sawdust onto the trailer to dump off at the dumpster at my work this morning. And I'm confident there is still enough left over to fill in and flatten the area. Cut through a LOT of wood with that thing.

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/ISYbdywJIIktPVGtZgmcwQm1FlSzbX8bHPiloPTgU_qP2qntYDFx63hke6V2HKZ9uNcYAfzi38pCD5ZWut9c3_ekmCI5Qy7VjBJSIPEdxbTS0DNRetqfDyybYPw3i84PKBCtH9X9sv0=w2400)

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/ZB92OzDwYdVaGSWNHHw5F_UemtjBSQij8LV-EOKk9RDkp4NsfSpWdNIu0LNRGSUVO0QZnW6jyHsIKGnYpUJBIaW8F69pO4N59lIi4dQoPN23Q_wUyA17-lbVjYfaXBwqAiqn8GPNjVs=w2400)

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/fdyARjpaL7iaUK8GxS9vmuGdWj4y-6h-ykbvyIxwxQBou1A7AECAD85tj07ueUkXyvXDasKsdkqxwT1AIITI89rPHUpr2CgoJoClLy0uJflzXgX5MqpJJtzvL9KSiqb6AF_tNZ1Qb74=w2400)

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/4Uk78emD_hThCIK3YLQzyaFQv8_ABk6ev2zMttcBu60jmP6YPFa6VnAzNt8UFjSwnUnfouYpMD2d9ry-uatt9P45wwx8qV_VCLmHVIwg8_Z3kAdCqCc19wbzFFKgVhvhewwDCMN6yE0=w2400)

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/PLBe82oYeM9T_5P8UrjyNod-FyjILnyL_5raQ0ynil7IAS8m8wtJ9nWHPd18E42wBVsHx667eHF4ybgaRxY_JaBl6oMI6ZLW4L1i04l70oiUH9nSIrddujN4lNWvcdEkWIR-P1pzQUs=w2400)
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Harmony on June 01, 2023, 08:26:32 AM
Wow Nick - that looks like a fuck ton of hard work.  We have a tree on our property adjacent to our drive way that I'd love to take out.  Well it isn't really at tree because they cut the big tree decades ago, leaving the stump and now the 'new tree' has grown from the base of the stump and while it doesn't look terrible, I'd much prefer a beautiful weeping crabapple tree there (much smaller and compact).  Plus the roots of it has caused our driveway to buckle and crack.   I don't want to even think about how much it would cost to get it removed and repair the driveway.  :censored

Thanks everyone for the opinions on the remodel question.  Cram - the master is on the main floor.  We don't have a history of falling, but I did break my foot (not because of the stairs) a few years ago and negotiating just those 2 stairs with crutches was no fun.  There is no railing for those 2 stairs and nothing to hold onto.  But I hear what you say about "if it isn't broken, don't fix it" and that is typically my go-to response to things as well.  Podaar the sunken area is half of the entire space.  When you walk into the master, the jacuzzi tub is in front of you, the closets, vanity and small enclosed shower/commode area to the right.  Turn to the left and step down into the space where the king bed is and furniture/t.v.  We also have french doors there that open onto the deck.  Raising the floor will now mean stairs or a ramp down to the deck so that was another issue that arises by lifting up the floor.

I have a friend who is an interior designer and is familiar with our space.  Her opinion was to raise the floor.  She feels having one level will make the entire space look bigger.  And since our ceiling is so high, bringing it down a little bit and making it an a-line will not make it feel boxy or cramped.  I think we've just lived with this for so long it is hard to imagine a different look.

Our contractor emailed me and says he has an idea for the entire space that he wants to show us.  We'll see how much that costs us we like it.   :P
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Stadler on June 01, 2023, 08:35:10 AM
Are heating and cooling a factor for you? 
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Harmony on June 01, 2023, 08:37:26 AM
Totally - that room is the hottest in summer and coldest in winter.  So bringing the floor up and ceiling down will definitely help with that.  We are also re-insulating the space under the floor and adding a heat/air vent.  And the ceiling fan.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: hefdaddy42 on June 01, 2023, 10:52:58 AM
We noticed lights flickering in our kitchen, and some kitchen appliances not working as they normally do.  We have an electrician come out, and it turns out we should have 240 volts total coming into the home, on two legs of 120 volts each.  One of ours was at 114, and the other was at 130, which is a hazard.  So after having the electric company come out and verify that the problem is on our side of the electrical exchange and not theirs (thanks for that), we had to get a new meter box on the outside of the house.  Parts, labor, permits, etc = somewhere north of $3,000 to make sure my toast comes out the way I like it and the house doesn't burn down.

A BARGAIN.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Stadler on June 01, 2023, 10:56:16 AM
We noticed lights flickering in our kitchen, and some kitchen appliances not working as they normally do.  We have an electrician come out, and it turns out we should have 240 volts total coming into the home, on two legs of 120 volts each.  One of ours was at 114, and the other was at 130, which is a hazard.  So after having the electric company come out and verify that the problem is on our side of the electrical exchange and not theirs (thanks for that), we had to get a new meter box on the outside of the house.  Parts, labor, permits, etc = somewhere north of $3,000 to make sure my toast comes out the way I like it and the house doesn't burn down.

A BARGAIN.

They don't own up to the meter?   
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: lordxizor on June 01, 2023, 11:57:01 AM
I want to plant a ton of trees along the back of my property without spending a ton of money. I'm looking at hybrid poplars which grow crazy fast.  Mostly looking to block the view of the neighborhood behind us. Our neighborhood is larger lots and more unique homes and behind us are a bunch of new McMansions. Not super close to us, but don't love the view through their back windows. Anyone ever done anything similar? I'd probably need 12 trees and I'm ok buying small and letting them grow over the next several year. Hybrid poplars can grow up to 8 feet a year once established.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Chino on June 01, 2023, 12:08:01 PM
I want to plant a ton of trees along the back of my property without spending a ton of money. I'm looking at hybrid poplars which grow crazy fast.  Mostly looking to block the view of the neighborhood behind us. Our neighborhood is larger lots and more unique homes and behind us are a bunch of new McMansions. Not super close to us, but don't love the view through their back windows. Anyone ever done anything similar? I'd probably need 12 trees and I'm ok buying small and letting them grow over the next several year. Hybrid poplars can grow up to 8 feet a year once established.

Costco sells arborvitaes for like $21 each and they're already 4' tall or so. Best deal around! Even if you're not a member, sign up for a year just for that and it'll pay for itself. 
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: lordxizor on June 01, 2023, 12:12:48 PM
I want to plant a ton of trees along the back of my property without spending a ton of money. I'm looking at hybrid poplars which grow crazy fast.  Mostly looking to block the view of the neighborhood behind us. Our neighborhood is larger lots and more unique homes and behind us are a bunch of new McMansions. Not super close to us, but don't love the view through their back windows. Anyone ever done anything similar? I'd probably need 12 trees and I'm ok buying small and letting them grow over the next several year. Hybrid poplars can grow up to 8 feet a year once established.

Costco sells arborvitaes for like $21 each and they're already 4' tall or so. Best deal around! Even if you're not a member, sign up for a year just for that and it'll pay for itself. 
We just bought some apples trees from Costco. I'm not sure arborvitaes are really the look I'm hoping for, but that's a good suggestion.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: hefdaddy42 on June 02, 2023, 09:06:51 AM
We noticed lights flickering in our kitchen, and some kitchen appliances not working as they normally do.  We have an electrician come out, and it turns out we should have 240 volts total coming into the home, on two legs of 120 volts each.  One of ours was at 114, and the other was at 130, which is a hazard.  So after having the electric company come out and verify that the problem is on our side of the electrical exchange and not theirs (thanks for that), we had to get a new meter box on the outside of the house.  Parts, labor, permits, etc = somewhere north of $3,000 to make sure my toast comes out the way I like it and the house doesn't burn down.

A BARGAIN.

They don't own up to the meter?
They do.  Up to the meter, the readings were correct.  They got screwy once our outside panel got involved.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: faizoff on June 03, 2023, 11:18:52 PM
Less than a year into home ownership and the first major repair arises (at least I think it's going to be major). Some 15+ years ago, the previous owner installed a torchdown roof over our the lanai/back porch, this roof covers the entire lanai area and is screened in which gives a nice small enclosed area for the kids to play. Well today two of the plywood ceiling panels crashed in the middle of the night while we were watching Mindhunter on Netflix. It's creepy enough to watch a show about serial killers and the accompanying brutal violence, and to hear a loud crashing sound during the episode scared the shit out of us.

Not sure what the damage is, will have to get someone to look at it and give us the bad news on how much this is going to set up back.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: faizoff on June 05, 2023, 10:37:25 AM
Got an estimate and it's going to set me back almost a grand. Wonderful.


(https://imgur.com/NI1SfPm.jpg)

Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: DragonAttack on June 05, 2023, 04:41:31 PM
I’m glad no one was under it when it fell!
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: King Postwhore on June 05, 2023, 04:44:32 PM
Thankfully no one was hurt.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: jingle.boy on June 05, 2023, 09:16:07 PM
Everyone survived!

RAAAAAAWWWRRRRR!
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Cool Chris on June 05, 2023, 09:21:34 PM
How did the plywood just fall completely off?
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: faizoff on June 05, 2023, 10:13:54 PM
Yeah thank god it happened in the night when the kids weren't playing in the porch. I shudder to think this happening during the day. No warning sign that it was sagging or failing. It looked pristine, I have no clue why it fell off like that. It's also not plywood like I assumed, it's regular gypsum dry wall. I believe it was installed around 2007 some 16 years ago. I spoke to a few neighbors and they think it should've been nailed in with screw-nails rather than the straight nails. One block of the ceiling wall fell in tact while another broke in half. My initial idea was to just replace the broken/fallen piece but now I'm rethinking if the whole thing was done this way, what are the chances the other pieces fall too.

I would like to talk to a couple of contractors and specialists about what they think happened, humidity? improper fastening? who knows. There doesn't seem to be any leaking anywhere, wood underneath looks solid. Really odd.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Cool Chris on June 05, 2023, 10:44:09 PM
Contractor here... There are nails designed for drywall. If done properly, a whole sheet shouldn't just give way like that. If the drywall shows no sign of moisture, I don't have any immediate thoughts.

As it appears to be a significant portion of the ceiling, you might be better off replacing the whole thing. You could have just the hole repaired, but by the time that was taped, mudded, textured, and painted to match, it wouldn't be much more costly to do the whole thing. But yes get a professional out there to see it and maybe they can identify something that you want to address now that it is opened.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: faizoff on June 05, 2023, 10:54:43 PM
Thanks for your input, I am getting it looked at by a couple of contractors and probably just suck up the cost and get the entire ceiling redone unless I get assurances that the others won't have the same fate. Can the other panels be re-fastened? Is that even possible, like reinforce them?
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Cool Chris on June 05, 2023, 11:08:56 PM
Yes, just screw the existing pieces in to the joists. Because no one is going to see the ceiling up close, a bit of spackle and paint could be sufficient to cover up the new holes. 
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: cramx3 on June 06, 2023, 11:07:53 AM
Damn, that sucks and to have it at that timing  :lol

Recently had a random incident of what I presume to be a bird breaking a window.  Can't confirm as I didn't see / hear it happen, but I noticed a hole in one of the windows and was like wtf?! Based on the location, for it to be a ball, someone would have had to have been within 10 ft or so of the window to hit that spot (meaning in my backyard) so I think that's unlikely.  No bird body or ball around.  OH well.  After having a couple ridiculous estimates (they wanted to redo the entire window and not just replace just the glass) someone did it for $400 including the cost of the window glass.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Harmony on June 06, 2023, 04:07:49 PM
Freak dangerous shit happening at the house has always been a fear of mine.

When I was in first grade we had a huge fir tree in our yard and it went down into the street in a storm, blocking the road for most of a day.  I always remember my dad saying that if the wind had been blowing the other way, it would've crashed into our house.

My fears have matured now into stray bullets from a drive by shooting.  I'm only partially kidding.  We live on a corner lot and a couple of years ago a car passing by threw a bunch of lit fireworks into our yard, hitting near the wall of the room we were sitting in.  Freaked me the fuck out.  I know it was just stupid ass kids but still...

Anyway, I echo others here - thank god that didn't go down when your kids or you were out there.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: TAC on June 06, 2023, 08:18:53 PM
When we moved into our house, during the first week or so that we were here, our house was shot at with a paint pellet gun. Sprayed the whole front of the house. Apparently, we weren't targeted as they shot at a number of houses on our street.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Podaar on June 07, 2023, 06:16:57 AM
My house was shot with an arrow once.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Nick on June 07, 2023, 07:44:50 AM
I used to be a homeowner like you, but then I took an arrow to the foundation.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Stadler on June 07, 2023, 08:05:44 AM
I used to be a homeowner like you, but then I took an arrow to the foundation.

HAHAHA, I get that reference!!!!  :)
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: DragonAttack on June 07, 2023, 09:52:20 AM
Thanks for your input, I am getting it looked at by a couple of contractors and probably just suck up the cost and get the entire ceiling redone unless I get assurances that the others won't have the same fate. Can the other panels be re-fastened? Is that even possible, like reinforce them?

Curious if you've looked into a hanging ceiling with tiles? 

Or...and maybe this sounds a bit 'different':  removing what's left, and leaving the joists exposed?  That's how my current basement is, which we've had for twelve years.  I thought of putting in a hanging ceiling after I put up paneling to cover the cement walls two years ago, but to be honest, it has a charm I rather like.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: faizoff on June 07, 2023, 09:19:40 PM

Curious if you've looked into a hanging ceiling with tiles? 

Or...and maybe this sounds a bit 'different':  removing what's left, and leaving the joists exposed?  That's how my current basement is, which we've had for twelve years.  I thought of putting in a hanging ceiling after I put up paneling to cover the cement walls two years ago, but to be honest, it has a charm I rather like.

I haven't thought about that, one of my neighbors suggested shiplap paneling for the ceiling which is similar to what you're suggesting with the barren wooden framework. Good suggestions for something down the line when we're thinking of converting the lanai to a sunroom.

I had a handyman come today and he said it's almost assuredly the humidity that caused the boards to fall. He said since December he's fixed 54 prior fallen ceilings similar to ours, it's always either some water leak or moisture buildup. He did mention that there were minor fixes and patching done before so it's possible the previous owner saw sagging boards. Either way, the guy today was awesome and said he'd secure it with screw nails on his dime, as he too has children and doesn't like the idea of just replacing the boards and not making sure the other boards were secure. He'll finish tomorrow and I've going to make sure he knows how thankful for going the extra mile.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: faizoff on June 12, 2023, 03:03:40 PM
Do you guys paint the ceiling with a sprayer or just a regular roller? I used a roller for the primer and while it wasn't that much of a pain, doing the paint with a roller again doesn't sound like fun. I was thinking of getting a sprayer and doing with that but there a million to choose from. The Ceiling area is about 250 sq ft. give or take. Might complete the whole thing in about 2 hours or so is my guess with a roller as I've already prepped the place. Is a sprayer worth it?
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Stadler on June 12, 2023, 03:27:33 PM
Do you guys paint the ceiling with a sprayer or just a regular roller? I used a roller for the primer and while it wasn't that much of a pain, doing the paint with a roller again doesn't sound like fun. I was thinking of getting a sprayer and doing with that but there a million to choose from. The Ceiling area is about 250 sq ft. give or take. Might complete the whole thing in about 2 hours or so is my guess with a roller as I've already prepped the place. Is a sprayer worth it?

I rely on the experts here, but I have not had luck with a sprayer on the ceiling. It made a mess and was hard to get good coverage.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: ReaperKK on June 12, 2023, 05:17:22 PM
Painting and electrical is the one thing I pay the pros to do. I spent my 20s painting rooms at a hotel I ran and I simply dont ever want to do it again. The guys who painted the house last time used a roller for everything.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Grappler on June 12, 2023, 06:13:16 PM
I've painted ceilings with a roller while standing on a ladder.  I feel like I have better control vs. standing on the floor and using a pole connected to the roller handle.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Cool Chris on June 12, 2023, 10:34:20 PM
We have a sprayer and only one guy will use it, and even then only under certain circumstances, and just to do primer. Just roll it, it will look much better with less hassle, even if it is time-consuming.

Painting and electrical is the one thing I pay the pros to do.

As a contractor, mind if I add plumbing to the "leave this to the pros" list?  :)
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: faizoff on June 13, 2023, 05:01:27 AM
Thanks for the feedback all, roller it is.



Painting and electrical is the one thing I pay the pros to do.

As a contractor, mind if I add plumbing to the "leave this to the pros" list?  :)


Yeah I'd think plumbing would be on that list too.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: lordxizor on June 13, 2023, 05:49:42 AM
If you've got popcorn ceilings, rolling can be a struggle. I've had the popcorn come right off while rolling. I've sprayed ceilings as well and it's a huge mess. I wouldn't do it again, but I admittedly had a cheap sprayer.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Podaar on June 13, 2023, 06:09:46 AM
Depends on the sprayer, and how committed you are to the finish. I have a Graco Magnum X7. With the right tip, a little practice, and proper prep. It's way cleaner, easier and takes a fraction of the time. Especially true if the ceiling is heavily textured and/or has a lot of trim work.  Yet, it's an expensive machine, and I never would have gotten it except I end up painting quite frequently, between our own home and helping with my kid's properties.

But, yeah for 250 square feet, I'd just roll it.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: jingle.boy on June 13, 2023, 06:20:58 AM
As far as electrical goes, I’ve got no problems changing a fixture, or switch, or receptacle. Anything beyond that, I’m hiring someone.

Same with plumbing. I’ll change a faucet, or install a toilet, but anything that requires work on the copper or ABS, I’m out.

Painting … I’ve hired once to do my whole main floor. Mrs.jingle and I are competent enough to do the simple things (rectangle rooms, no problem), but was worth saving the time and hassle to hire for the bigger job. A 3-person crew came in and had the whole thing done in one day. And we’ve got a lot of different angles and slopes to our ceilings, plus crown moulding in a lot of places.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: faizoff on June 13, 2023, 06:27:20 AM
If you've got popcorn ceilings, rolling can be a struggle. I've had the popcorn come right off while rolling. I've sprayed ceilings as well and it's a huge mess. I wouldn't do it again, but I admittedly had a cheap sprayer.

Thank God the outdoor patio doesn't have popcorn ceiling. I hate those. The ceiling is already textured and admittedly is an easy straight forward job.

The rest of my house indoors has popcorn ceiling and will have to find a time and chance to get rid of it. Should've done it before moving.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Stadler on June 13, 2023, 06:46:16 AM
Popcorn ceilings were invented by the devil, no doubt.  HATE them.

Electrical:  I will do anything electrical up to the connection to the box. I don't f--- with that, but I know how to run outlets and what not.   I did have a pro do the wiring for my generator, though.

Plumbing: Like Chad, I will install fixtures, but when it comes to the piping, we're calling the pro in to do the heavy lifting.

Painting: I used to do all my own painting. I like doing it and I like HOW I do it.  I take all the outlet covers off, all the fixtures down, all the HVAC controllers, and I PAINT.  There are no "circles" or "covered spots" in rooms I've painted.  There's no "painting around" things.  I have painted virtually EVERY room in every house I've ever owned, except for one (Charlotte, which we bought new).  Having said that, I was traveling a lot this past year with my parents, and we finally hired a guy to paint the kids bathroom and one of the bedrooms... and since then he's done the hall, the stairwell, and my kitchen.  My painting days are probably over; it's not worth it.  The guy does it as his second job, and he's good.   Good enough for me!  (Not going to lie, though: I HAVE gone around and touched up things so it's the way I would do it!) :)
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: ReaperKK on June 13, 2023, 07:00:56 AM
Thanks for the feedback all, roller it is.



Painting and electrical is the one thing I pay the pros to do.

As a contractor, mind if I add plumbing to the "leave this to the pros" list?  :)


Yeah I'd think plumbing would be on that list too.

Plumbing is definitely on the list too.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Nick on June 13, 2023, 09:25:59 AM
It depends for me. I do a fair bit of electrical, but I have two good friends who are electricians who will do things for me reasonably beyond that. Plumbing I've thankfully never had major issues. Had to replace the pipe coming from the wall to a toilet once, redo toilet guts once, and installed a garbage disposal.

I do not paint.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: cramx3 on June 13, 2023, 09:42:04 AM
I don't do anything!

Seriously though, I'm not handy at all nor do I have any desire to become handy.  I've replaced switches and outlets but nothing more for electric work.  I've only replaced the guts of a toilet once before, nothing more for plumbing and I likely wouldn't even attempt to do anything if it came to the pipes.  I hate painting ( just had the house almost completely painted, not by me), this is definitely the most doable of the things here for me, but it's probably also the most tedious.  I painted some of the house when I moved in (2 full rooms) and it was a nightmare for me hence just paying someone recently.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Jamesman42 on June 13, 2023, 09:49:50 AM
I'm not very handy either, though I have learned or attempted to do small things beyond my comfort zone with good results. I installed all the blinds when we bought our house, and painted the kids' bedrooms (with the help of my MIL). Even learning how to hang things up felt like a big accomplishment to me :lol
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: cramx3 on June 13, 2023, 09:54:41 AM
I'm not very handy either, though I have learned or attempted to do small things beyond my comfort zone with good results. I installed all the blinds when we bought our house, and painted the kids' bedrooms (with the help of my MIL). Even learning how to hang things up felt like a big accomplishment to me :lol

Yes! After my office was painted, I will admit, I was a bit intimidated on how to hang all my concert memorabilia, but I got it all hung including some shelving.  Not really difficult at all, but I definitely felt intimidated that I would screw up the new paint job. 
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: hefdaddy42 on June 13, 2023, 10:16:35 AM
I am also not in any way handy, although last weekend I operated a hedge trimmer.  That was actually kind of fun.

I just pretended it was a lightsaber.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Orbert on June 13, 2023, 10:58:01 AM
Did you make the humming sound as you swept it back and forth?
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Jamesman42 on June 13, 2023, 11:50:05 AM
He screamed because he pretended it was double-sided.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Dublagent66 on June 13, 2023, 12:19:28 PM
I hire landscapers to do my yardwork.  Who has time to do that crap anyway?  lol
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: jingle.boy on June 13, 2023, 07:27:45 PM
You are talking about nature’s outdoor foliage, right?
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: TAC on June 13, 2023, 07:28:35 PM
I am also not in any way handy, although last weekend I operated a hedge trimmer.  That was actually kind of fun.

I just pretended it was a lightsaber.

May the forest be with you.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: King Postwhore on June 13, 2023, 07:32:40 PM
I am also not in any way handy, although last weekend I operated a hedge trimmer.  That was actually kind of fun.

I just pretended it was a lightsaber.

May the forest be with you.

Brush Maul.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Cool Chris on June 13, 2023, 07:52:16 PM
One mistake many homeowners make with painting is going cheap on the materials. Get quality paint, brushes, rollers... it really does affect the final product.

I love my hedge trimmer. I have very few hedges to trim, so I rarely use it unfortunately.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: faizoff on June 13, 2023, 09:40:02 PM
What brushes/rollers do you recommend Chris? I just picked this one  (https://www.homedepot.com/p/6-Piece-Plastic-Tray-Applicator-Kit-HD-RS-601-SP/319877662)randomly from Home Depot for the primer. It was decent, did the job and didn't break or anything. For paint I was going to get a flat white exterior Sherman-Williams exterior.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Cool Chris on June 13, 2023, 10:15:02 PM
That would be fine for the primer. If you go to Sherwin, we usually get their Purdy Marathon roller covers. Everyone on our crew seems to have their own brush they like. Spend $15 on one, take care of it, and it will last a long time and do a quality job.

We usually job out exterior paint jobs; for interior jobs we typically get Sherwin Williams Emerald paint. I believe there is an Emerald for exterior.

One thing I found I was doing wrong for so long was 1) not getting enough paint on my roller and 2) spreading it too thin on the walls. Once I was alerted to those issues and improved them, my painting got significantly better.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Stadler on June 14, 2023, 06:22:13 AM
That would be fine for the primer. If you go to Sherwin, we usually get their Purdy Marathon roller covers. Everyone on our crew seems to have their own brush they like. Spend $15 on one, take care of it, and it will last a long time and do a quality job.

We usually job out exterior paint jobs; for interior jobs we typically get Sherwin Williams Emerald paint. I believe there is an Emerald for exterior.

One thing I found I was doing wrong for so long was 1) not getting enough paint on my roller and 2) spreading it too thin on the walls. Once I was alerted to those issues and improved them, my painting got significantly better.

I'm a cheap bastard, so I would always try to stretch the paint as far as I could... in hindsight, you have to suck it up and let the paint do it's work.  $35 for another can (or $20 for a quart, if it's that tight) is small expense for not seeing a 4 foot by 4 foot patch of wall that is nominally covered - there are no patches showing through - but doesn't have enough paint to "set" the finish.  It'll look flat, or at the right angle and in the right light, it will look dull.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: hefdaddy42 on June 14, 2023, 11:06:40 AM
I hire landscapers to do my yardwork.  Who has time to do that crap anyway?  lol
We do too, for most of it.  My neighbor has the hedge trimmer and my wife wanted to borrow it, so we had fun with it.

Did you make the humming sound as you swept it back and forth?
I did, but no one could hear because the trimmer was so damn loud.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Orbert on June 14, 2023, 11:23:33 AM
Yeah, I realized that that would be an issue.  But it's good that you made the sounds anyway.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Jamesman42 on June 14, 2023, 11:29:34 AM
My wife and I have discussed off and on about painting the rest of our house (inside). We are thinking of just hiring someone because our lives are busy with two careers and two toddlers. We are tired of the white, semi-bare walls.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: hefdaddy42 on June 14, 2023, 01:18:22 PM
I'm a big believer in hiring painters.

And movers.

And, well, whomever I can hire to do correctly the around-the-house shit that I most definitely will fuck up.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Orbert on June 14, 2023, 01:34:52 PM
We had to replace our kitchen faucet and I didn't feel like climbing under the sink, turning off the water and removing the old faucet, installing the new one, etc., so I figure we call a plumber.  We're "members" of the local plumbing, heating & cooling company (pay a small monthly for discounts on service and purchases, plus free annual check-ups on furnace, AC, etc.) so I figured yeah it'll be a couple hundred bucks probably, but I'd still rather pay that than do all that myself.  I'm getting too old for this shit.

Seven hundred fucking dollars.  To install a new kitchen faucet that only cost $250 in the first place.  Also, the guy shared with me that the faucet itself, you know, is a rather low-end piece of hardware.  Low end?  Yeah, plastic innards, chrome-plated plastic, not really meant to last more than five or 10 years.  Well, shit.  We are planning on selling the house in maybe the next five or ten years, so I guess it doesn't have to last any longer than that, but now I know.  I mean, there were the $200 faucets at Home Depot and fancier ones and fancier ones that went all the way up to like $1000.  Now I know why.  Solid metal fittings and all that.

So that was annoying, paying three times as much as I'd paid in the first place to have a POS faucet installed.  But it's done.  The kicker is, I don't even like the new faucet.  The sprayer is weird and has a bizarre spray pattern, but we couldn't exactly try it out at the store first.  I just assumed it would be like any normal sprayer.  But after spending nearly a grand buying and installing it, we're sticking with it until we sell the house.  The benefits of home ownership.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: lordxizor on June 14, 2023, 01:36:56 PM
Yep. I'd rather do it all myself than pay an absurd amount of money for someone to do it for me. I do draw the line at electricity or natural gas though. I don't need to electrocute anyone or blow up my house.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Orbert on June 14, 2023, 01:39:28 PM
I guess I just didn't realize how much it would cost.  I know they charge by the hour, but the last time we had a plumber out, he had to fix a toilet which took a few hours, and it cost like $200, so I figured installing a faucet would be similar.  If I'd known how much it would be, I probably would've done it myself, and dealt with the soreness and pain later.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Dublagent66 on June 14, 2023, 02:13:09 PM
I'm a big believer in hiring painters.

And movers.

And, well, whomever I can hire to do correctly the around-the-house shit that I most definitely will fuck up.

Yeah, I get it.  Not a handyman myself either. lol
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: faizoff on June 14, 2023, 02:20:35 PM
We had to replace our kitchen faucet and I didn't feel like climbing under the sink, turning off the water and removing the old faucet, installing the new one, etc., so I figure we call a plumber.  We're "members" of the local plumbing, heating & cooling company (pay a small monthly for discounts on service and purchases, plus free annual check-ups on furnace, AC, etc.) so I figured yeah it'll be a couple hundred bucks probably, but I'd still rather pay that than do all that myself.  I'm getting too old for this shit.

Seven hundred fucking dollars.  To install a new kitchen faucet that only cost $250 in the first place.  Also, the guy shared with me that the faucet itself, you know, is a rather low-end piece of hardware.  Low end?  Yeah, plastic innards, chrome-plated plastic, not really meant to last more than five or 10 years.  Well, shit.  We are planning on selling the house in maybe the next five or ten years, so I guess it doesn't have to last any longer than that, but now I know.  I mean, there were the $200 faucets at Home Depot and fancier ones and fancier ones that went all the way up to like $1000.  Now I know why.  Solid metal fittings and all that.

So that was annoying, paying three times as much as I'd paid in the first place to have a POS faucet installed.  But it's done.  The kicker is, I don't even like the new faucet.  The sprayer is weird and has a bizarre spray pattern, but we couldn't exactly try it out at the store first.  I just assumed it would be like any normal sprayer.  But after spending nearly a grand buying and installing it, we're sticking with it until we sell the house.  The benefits of home ownership.

I can't recall if I posted in this thread or the exasperated thread, I had a plumber once quote me some $3,000 worth of work when I asked how much for installing 3 sinks in our house. He wanted to charge $300 per sink install and additionally wanted to replace the T junctions in our walls due to them being higher for a proper drain. I got another plumber to check the work and he did the 3 sink install plus garbage disposal plus a shower head disposal for a total of $650. I always get multiple quotes for any work these days and this is a primary reason why.


As for lawn service, I do it all myself, I find it oddly soothing mowing the lawn. Plus I have a smallish yard to maintain, waste to have someone do it for me every week or two.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Jamesman42 on June 14, 2023, 06:23:15 PM
I'm a big believer in hiring painters.

And movers.

And, well, whomever I can hire to do correctly the around-the-house shit that I most definitely will fuck up.

Yeah, we had movers for our new house as well. Completely worth it.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Grappler on June 15, 2023, 06:47:53 AM
Seven hundred fucking dollars.  To install a new kitchen faucet that only cost $250 in the first place. 

We had toilets that would run on and off in our prior house.  Being a newer homeowner, I didn't know much about how toilets work, so I called a plumber.  They charged me $300 for less than an hour's worth of work and a $15 replacement part.  After that, I watched some youtube videos and started changing out the fill and flush valves inside of the toilet tanks myself.

Same goes for faucets.  I hate crawling under the sink, but it's cheaper to do it myself. 

I had a chimney sweep charge me $150 to clean my chimney and it took him 10 minutes and he was out the door and gone.  I bought the brush myself and would then just go up on the roof and clean the chimney myself after that.  I always tell my wife that it's time vs. money.  We can save time, but spend money hiring someone.  Or spend time and save money by doing it ourselves. 
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Orbert on June 15, 2023, 07:00:22 AM
The time vs money thing is big, but "effort" also plays into it.  I'm 61 this year, and feeling it.  The idea of crawling under the sink and lying on my back in that position, which is uncomfortable already, for however long it takes to do the necessary work, was really turning me off.  Plus there's the possibility that I wouldn't be able to do it anyway, and I'd be sore for days for nothing.  I figured for a couple hundred bucks, I'd pay someone else to do it.  I'm not that bad off.  I just grossly underestimated how much it would cost.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: hefdaddy42 on June 15, 2023, 07:32:47 AM
The time vs money thing is big, but "effort" also plays into it.  I'm 61 this year, and feeling it.  The idea of crawling under the sink and lying on my back in that position, which is uncomfortable already, for however long it takes to do the necessary work, was really turning me off.  Plus there's the possibility that I wouldn't be able to do it anyway, and I'd be sore for days for nothing.  I figured for a couple hundred bucks, I'd pay someone else to do it.  I'm not that bad off.  I just grossly underestimated how much it would cost.
:tup
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: lordxizor on June 15, 2023, 07:41:42 AM
I generally assume hiring someone will cost twice as much as I think it should
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: EPICVIEW on June 15, 2023, 10:17:45 PM
The time vs money thing is big, but "effort" also plays into it.  I'm 61 this year, and feeling it.  The idea of crawling under the sink and lying on my back in that position, which is uncomfortable already, for however long it takes to do the necessary work, was really turning me off.  Plus there's the possibility that I wouldn't be able to do it anyway, and I'd be sore for days for nothing.  I figured for a couple hundred bucks, I'd pay someone else to do it.  I'm not that bad off.  I just grossly underestimated how much it would cost.

I hear ya   I got 2 houses and just one of me... I can do a lot and I do but yea Im tearing myself up more and more, , lately my rule is if I can do it and its not critical Ill do it ,,, if its immediate and I dont have the tools and time is an issue I will pay extra to let a pro do it and I then have them fix something else that is gonna need it to head off a problem,   I just had new motor put on well when I was just gonna have them do the tank , but saved on the "bundle " lol  , my chick likes to remind me I m not gettin and younger and loves when I complain about the back or various broken bones or torn cartilage or other random inflicted pain

but hell Id not what to do without chores and fixin the cars  LOL
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Cool Chris on June 15, 2023, 10:34:31 PM
We had to replace our kitchen faucet and I didn't feel like climbing under the sink, turning off the water and removing the old faucet, installing the new one, etc., so I figure we call a plumber.  We're "members" of the local plumbing, heating & cooling company (pay a small monthly for discounts on service and purchases, plus free annual check-ups on furnace, AC, etc.) so I figured yeah it'll be a couple hundred bucks probably, but I'd still rather pay that than do all that myself.  I'm getting too old for this shit.

Seven hundred fucking dollars.  To install a new kitchen faucet that only cost $250 in the first place....

I won't question your desire to not contort your body beyond comfort at this stage in your life, but as someone who works in the industry, that is ridiculous, especially the upsell.

Why would you have to turn the water off though, you weren't changing the valves, right?
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: jingle.boy on June 16, 2023, 05:54:59 AM
Movers are worth every penny.  When I was in uni and single, I'd always rented a truck, gathered a few buddies, and done it my/ourself.  After my first house, we hired, and I would never not hire movers again.  Man alive do you accumulate a lot of shit.

When we moved 4.5 years ago, they had the entirety of the inside of our house packed and loaded into a truck in less than 6 hours.  That was Day 1.  Day two was all the stuff we'd already packed in totes and stored at my in-laws, plus all the shit in my garage, shed, and outdoor furniture.

Add to that a 3-hour 1-way drive, and unloading all that shit.

Worth every goddamned penny.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: lordxizor on June 16, 2023, 05:57:26 AM
I moved my entire house last year for a few hundred bucks. Movers would have cost several thousand. It was a pain in the ass and hard work, but totally worth the savings. Now, ask me to do that again in a decade when I'm in my 50s and I might say something different (though my sons will be old enough to do all the heavy lifting at that point).
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Stadler on June 16, 2023, 06:28:04 AM
Movers are worth every penny.  When I was in uni and single, I'd always rented a truck, gathered a few buddies, and done it my/ourself.  After my first house, we hired, and I would never not hire movers again.  Man alive do you accumulate a lot of shit.

When we moved 4.5 years ago, they had the entirety of the inside of our house packed and loaded into a truck in less than 6 hours.  That was Day 1.  Day two was all the stuff we'd already packed in totes and stored at my in-laws, plus all the shit in my garage, shed, and outdoor furniture.

Add to that a 3-hour 1-way drive, and unloading all that shit.

Worth every goddamned penny.

This is me, too.   And on my last move, my wife sort of gave me shit about it, and so we went "halfway"; movers packed almost everything, then moved the big shit and we'd do the rest.  It was too much and I finally called another moving company to move the rest.  (It's a longer story than that, but the rest isn't really relevant).
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: jingle.boy on June 16, 2023, 06:57:22 AM
We did all the packing; movers did the moving.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: faizoff on June 16, 2023, 06:58:49 AM
We did all the packing; movers did the moving.

Same here. The movers we got were solid and did the job so fast, it would've taken me a full day, they did the whole thing (loading and unloading) in 4 hours minus travel time.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: hefdaddy42 on June 16, 2023, 06:59:44 AM
We did all the packing; movers did the moving.
Same when we moved 5 years ago.

Like you said, worth every penny.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Orbert on June 16, 2023, 08:55:28 AM
We had to replace our kitchen faucet and I didn't feel like climbing under the sink, turning off the water and removing the old faucet, installing the new one, etc., so I figure we call a plumber.  We're "members" of the local plumbing, heating & cooling company (pay a small monthly for discounts on service and purchases, plus free annual check-ups on furnace, AC, etc.) so I figured yeah it'll be a couple hundred bucks probably, but I'd still rather pay that than do all that myself.  I'm getting too old for this shit.

Seven hundred fucking dollars.  To install a new kitchen faucet that only cost $250 in the first place....

I won't question your desire to not contort your body beyond comfort at this stage in your life, but as someone who works in the industry, that is ridiculous, especially the upsell.

Why would you have to turn the water off though, you weren't changing the valves, right?

I'd have to shut off the feeds to the faucet itself, not the main.  But our house was built in the 60's, and the feeds are old and have these dumb oval-shaped knobs that probably moved alright 60 years ago, but I'd be laying on my back with not much room to move, trying to turn them tightly enough to cut off the feeds to the sink.  If I don't/can't get them totally shut off, I get wet when I remove the old lines, and at that point water is coming out the entire time I'm trying to crank down hard enough to cut it off.  I ran into that when I replaced the faucet in the downstairs bathroom 20 years ago, and I wasn't even upside down inside a cabinet at the time.  Pain in the ass.  40-year-old Orbert was willing to do it to save a buck or two.  60-year-old Orbert said Fuck that, I'll pay someone to do it.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Harmony on August 15, 2023, 03:13:16 PM
So we are in full prepare mode for our main bedroom/bathroom remodel beginning in October.

I'm trying to get a specific toilet for this project that is the same model as the one we got for our upstairs bathroom - out of stock of course.  Lots to choose from so then I start thinking...maybe I should look into a modern bidet/commode combo.  Remember when Covid hit and you couldn't find TP anywhere?  Yeah...maybe that's the way to go.

I start looking at some options and at first I'm not looking at the prices or anything and I finally find one that looks like it might be a good one for our space and it is fucking 8 grand.

Some of the other ones are 10 grand.   :o

Who pays 8 grand for a toilet? 
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: King Postwhore on August 15, 2023, 04:08:33 PM
Al Bundy? :lol
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Cool Chris on August 15, 2023, 06:04:34 PM
Harmony, working for a remodeling company, I hope all goes well. Our standard off-the-shelf toilet we install in most homes runs $279 last time I bought one. We have installed some higher end biden units, but the office special orders those so I don't see the receipts for them.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Harmony on August 15, 2023, 07:47:31 PM
Harmony, working for a remodeling company, I hope all goes well. Our standard off-the-shelf toilet we install in most homes runs $279 last time I bought one. We have installed some higher end biden units, but the office special orders those so I don't see the receipts for them.

That's funny ^^  :D

Thanks.  The one we installed upstairs in early 2022 was around $350.  I can see current pricing for the same one as $450 now but out of stock.  Everything went up in price over the last year, for sure.

Anyone know anything about shiplap?  We have 2 accent walls of wood slats and the designer thought it would look great to carry through to the bedroom on the wall behind the bed and what you'd see as you entered the space.  Well...contractor came in at $3100 for the wall.  He's recommending shiplap but I don't know much about it.

At this point, I'm thinking paint in a nice accent color would be fine based on price. 
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Cool Chris on August 15, 2023, 07:54:42 PM
Whoops! Long day here!

Shiplap isn't something we've done for the time I've been with the company.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: King Postwhore on August 15, 2023, 07:57:09 PM
I found it easier to replace a whole toilet then replacing the flush valve.  Oh the war stories there
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Cool Chris on August 15, 2023, 08:06:18 PM
We have had clients spend $30k+ on a bathroom remodel, completely gutting everything and redoing everything from the ground up, and choose to re-use their existing toilet instead of spend the $250-300 for a new one. Toilets will last a long, long time, but why not splurge and get a brand new one if  literally everything else in the bathroom is brand new?
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Harmony on August 15, 2023, 08:15:50 PM
Plus as we get older, having a chair-height or taller commode can make a huge difference.  Older toilets seem to be mostly the short ones.

Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Orbert on August 15, 2023, 08:52:51 PM
Taller is easier to onto and off of, but supposedly the lower ones are better to use, as they are closer to squatting, which how we evolved and thus more natural and efficient.  That too becomes more important as you get older.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: jingle.boy on August 16, 2023, 04:09:01 AM
Taller is easier to onto and off of, but supposedly the lower ones are better to use, as they are closer to squatting, which how we evolved and thus more natural and efficient.  That too becomes more important as you get older.

Squatty Potty  :metal
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: hefdaddy42 on August 16, 2023, 06:21:02 AM
I've already told my wife that one of our next projects needs to be replacing all of our toilets with taller ones lol
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: TheOutlawXanadu on August 16, 2023, 09:08:02 AM
We are currently in the process of selling our house and it is very stressful lol. Holy cow, are some people inconsiderate. We even had one person book FOUR showings on the same day because they couldn't make their mind up when they wanted to come (our real estate agent made them just pick a time :lol). And then people will leave feedback like, "Not interested... Too far from work", in which case I'm not even sure why they came by in the first place! :rollin

I really hope we're done by the end of the month. :millahhhh
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: lordxizor on August 16, 2023, 09:37:37 AM
We are currently in the process of selling our house and it is very stressful lol. Holy cow, are some people inconsiderate. We even had one person book FOUR showings on the same day because they couldn't make their mind up when they wanted to come (our real estate agent made them just pick a time :lol). And then people will leave feedback like, "Not interested... Too far from work", in which case I'm not even sure why they came by in the first place! :rollin

I really hope we're done by the end of the month. :millahhhh
I loved selling our place a year and a half when things were nuts. List on Friday. 6 offers by Sunday. Having to deal with showings over the course of weeks or months has got to be awful.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Grappler on August 16, 2023, 10:21:35 AM
We are currently in the process of selling our house and it is very stressful lol. Holy cow, are some people inconsiderate. We even had one person book FOUR showings on the same day because they couldn't make their mind up when they wanted to come (our real estate agent made them just pick a time :lol). And then people will leave feedback like, "Not interested... Too far from work", in which case I'm not even sure why they came by in the first place! :rollin

I really hope we're done by the end of the month. :millahhhh

When we originally looked at houses in 2009, there were some houses we booked showings at and didn't even go inside (i.e., there was no garage).  One house smelled so strongly like cat pee when we opened the door that we just turned around and walked out.  So there are some circumstances where showings may not go as well as you'd think, but I agree - don't go look at a house if you think it may not suit your needs. 

When we sold in 2022, our showings went well, but the market was really hot at the time.  We had booked 20+ showings over the course of two days and had 3 offers within 24 hours of that first day of showings.  We cancelled the remainder of the showings then, but it was beyond stressful to try to work from home, keep the house clean as the kids just wanted to make messes, and be in and out of the house those two days.


My summer home headache has been a smelly basement.  Last year, we took care of a basement sewer pipe smell.  This summer, the basement started smelling gross again.  Over a few weeks, we determined the smell was related to the air conditioner, likely the drain pan.  My dad showed me how to access the pan and put little tablets in there that are biocides and kill growth like mold and bacteria that grow in the condensation that wouldn't drain.  It would neutralize the smell for a day, then it would come raging back.  I'd pour bleach in the drain pipe, and would get the same result.  It was so frustrating - then my dad suggested we replace the drain pipe itself, which I had considered.  Fixed the problem - though it was irritating that it took two months to figure that out.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Harmony on August 17, 2023, 04:42:00 PM
So it has been a rollercoaster of a week.  Last week we made some big headway by choosing our tile flooring.  I fell in love with our final choice and it really started to feel like things were coming together.

So then yesterday I get a text from my contractor that the tile is discontinued.  It was all I could do to hold it together because every other choice we were making was based off of that tile - paint color for the walls, paint color for the closet doors, paint color for the vanity.  I had semi-picked out light fixtures and hardware to accent the tile choice.  It felt like we had spent literally dozens of hours making choices that now were in the scrap heap because the tile was unavailable.

Today, the tile gods were smiling on us.  I heard from our designer that the discontinued tile WASN'T our tile choice and that we can still get the tile we fell in love with.  I'm doing the happy dance and breathing a huge sigh of relief.

But of course, the tile gods were not done laughing at us.  My contractor just texted me that our tile choice is more than double the budget we had set in place.  If I didn't know my designer and my contractor well, I'd be suspicious that this is all some sort of bait and switch.  But it's not.  It's just that everything is fucking expensive. 

We are still getting that tile.  Because now I can't let the tile gods win.   :lol
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Orbert on August 17, 2023, 05:48:04 PM
That's the spirit!  Don't let the tile gods win, because if you do, the gods of paint, closet doors, and light fixtures will all figure you for a lightweight and will mess with you as well.  And that would really suck.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Cool Chris on August 17, 2023, 09:36:28 PM
Glad you got your first choice, even if it was over budget. Take before and after pictures for us, if you feel comfortable doing so.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Stadler on August 18, 2023, 09:22:33 AM
Taller is easier to onto and off of, but supposedly the lower ones are better to use, as they are closer to squatting, which how we evolved and thus more natural and efficient.  That too becomes more important as you get older.

Squatty Potty  :metal

I have little stools in each of the bathrooms I use (one doubles as the stool my grandkids use when they brush their teeth or wash their hands) and they are INDISPENSABLE.  I get the joy of a higher toilet, but it doesn't match - for me - the joy of a full evacuation that the squatting position gives you.  I'm too cheap for actually buying the Squatty Potty, but my real-life hack does the job just fine. 

It's made going in hotels and whatnot difficult, actually.   
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Stadler on August 18, 2023, 09:32:02 AM
We are currently in the process of selling our house and it is very stressful lol. Holy cow, are some people inconsiderate. We even had one person book FOUR showings on the same day because they couldn't make their mind up when they wanted to come (our real estate agent made them just pick a time :lol). And then people will leave feedback like, "Not interested... Too far from work", in which case I'm not even sure why they came by in the first place! :rollin

I really hope we're done by the end of the month. :millahhhh

That whole implementation of the concept of "feedback" bugs the shit out of me.  I was buying lights for my Jeep and one of the ratings was one star.  Why?  The guy didn't like the color of the amber lamp.  It's AMBER.  100% of all cars have an amber lamp, and they don't vary by much (because of federal safety standards).  In any event, you not liking the color isn't a product flaw, it's your personal taste.   Why does that merit one star?    I travel, so I use Yelp! a lot to find restaurants and bars.  I don't have a ready example right now, but some of the criteria on which stars are given or withheld are mind-boggling!  Does using a different brand of ketchup than your personal favorite merit star reductions?  I see the arguments both ways, but for me, I'm not so arrogant that I think the entire world should use MY preferred brand of ketchup.  ;)
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: PMSummer on August 18, 2023, 02:06:49 PM
I had some interesting folks come by when selling a house a decade or two ago. One person was super focused on the potential noise levels around the neighborhood. They asked for a detailed noise report, complete with recordings of typical sounds throughout the day – from the neighbor's lawnmower to the distant train passing by. I didn't know I was selling a soundproof chamber!
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Orbert on August 18, 2023, 03:32:20 PM
A detailed noise report seems a bit extreme, but if I'm buying a house, I'd like to have some idea what I'm getting into, and that includes train tracks nearby, barking dogs, etc.

Being in the Chicago suburbs, depending on the wind direction, we're in the flight path for O'Hare airport, one of the busiest in the country.  It's rare, but when planes are coming in over our house every few minutes, it's noticeable.  This happens maybe one or two days a month, tops, but if it was every day, I would want to know that ahead of time.  As it happens, when we were looking at the house, we spent a little time outside checking it out, the backyard, etc., and it was very quiet the whole time.  If it had been on one of the days when planes were flying over every few minutes, it might have been a different story.

One of the houses we looked at happened to be near a creek at the end of the street.  We didn't even know it was there, but we happened to be checking out the house in the late afternoon, early evening when the mosquitos were out, and it was brutal.  Just standing out front looking at the house and chatting with our agent, we were getting feasted upon.  We finally looked around and noticed the creek, and wrote off that house.  If it's like that every day during the summer, even if only for a few hours or whatever, forget it.  I'd just as soon find another house.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Cool Chris on August 18, 2023, 08:19:31 PM
We are currently in the process of selling our house and it is very stressful lol. Holy cow, are some people inconsiderate. We even had one person book FOUR showings on the same day because they couldn't make their mind up when they wanted to come (our real estate agent made them just pick a time :lol). And then people will leave feedback like, "Not interested... Too far from work", in which case I'm not even sure why they came by in the first place! :rollin

Where are people leaving feedback? When we looked at houses, if we didn't find one suitable for us, we just moved on to the next one. We didn't leave feedback anywhere.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: TheHoveringSojourn808 on August 21, 2023, 03:28:35 PM
i think the decision to own a home should be based on individual circumstances and financial readiness. while it offers stability and potential financial benefits, the upfront and ongoing costs, along with the risks tied to the market's volatility, should be carefully considered.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Harmony on August 21, 2023, 05:01:08 PM
Glad you got your first choice, even if it was over budget. Take before and after pictures for us, if you feel comfortable doing so.

Yeah I will!  Thanks for the reminder.  I need to do a walk through with my camera before we break ground for sure.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Cool Chris on August 30, 2023, 09:31:43 AM
This is one of the more fascinating approaches to home "ownership" I have ever seen.

https://www.king5.com/article/money/markets/real-estate/seattle-co-living-situation-200k-shared-home/281-74418541-5d6c-440f-99b0-1c6ad8ff0b35

Quote
A new listing advertises a luxury home for only $200,000 in Crown Hill, a few blocks north of Seattle's Ballard neighborhood. It's undoubtedly a sweet deal when you consider how, this summer, Seattle homes sold for a median price of $800,000.

But there is one caveat: you would own only 25% of the home.

Eileen said you would technically own a private room and bathroom for $200,000, and then across the hallway on the same floor, somebody else would own the home's other bedroom and bathroom for $200,000. You would have to be okay with sharing the whole downstairs, which comes furnished with the other occupant.

I can't imagine what the text of these purchase and sale agreements would look like.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: cramx3 on August 30, 2023, 09:37:37 AM
I get splitting rent, but splitting a home ownership seems a bit much.  I got to think this is a way for people to break into the market to build equity for a future home because of how difficult it is right now otherwise.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: lordxizor on August 30, 2023, 09:48:51 AM
I can't imagine doing that. I guess it's kind of like owning a condo with a shared common space. Who gets to decide about new furniture, or home improvements, or which insurance to carry? Sounds like a nightmare to me
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Stadler on August 30, 2023, 10:00:03 AM
I have a LOT of questions about that.   it's one thing to bear the risk of your neighbor across the street moving, and perhaps the people that move in will be loud, or untidy, or whatever.  But across the HALL? 
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Chino on August 30, 2023, 10:02:19 AM
I'd move back in with my parents before I ever shared equity in a home with other people/strangers. That sounds like a nightmare at every turn.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Orbert on August 30, 2023, 10:24:09 AM
Ditto what everyone else is saying.  It's back to the days of sharing an apartment with relative strangers, which I'm thrilled to know I left behind me years ago, only worse because you actually co-own the place.

If you're really, really lucky, you split the place with a sibling or cousin and their family, and you happen to all get along.  That's the only scenario that even makes sense to me.  Otherwise yeah, total nightmare scenario.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Chino on August 30, 2023, 10:44:45 AM
Ditto what everyone else is saying.  It's back to the days of sharing an apartment with relative strangers, which I'm thrilled to know I left behind me years ago, only worse because you actually co-own the place.

If you're really, really lucky, you split the place with a sibling or cousin and their family, and you happen to all get along. That's the only scenario that even makes sense to me.  Otherwise yeah, total nightmare scenario.

Based on what I've seen happen to families over the verbiage in wills, I still don't think I'd chance it. Money makes people weird.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: TheHoveringSojourn808 on August 30, 2023, 11:44:46 AM
count me outta the group that's sharin' a home ownership situationship with a stranger!!
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Train of Naught on September 15, 2023, 10:01:52 AM
We are currently in the process of selling our house and it is very stressful lol. Holy cow, are some people inconsiderate. We even had one person book FOUR showings on the same day because they couldn't make their mind up when they wanted to come (our real estate agent made them just pick a time :lol). And then people will leave feedback like, "Not interested... Too far from work", in which case I'm not even sure why they came by in the first place! :rollin

I really hope we're done by the end of the month. :millahhhh

When we originally looked at houses in 2009, there were some houses we booked showings at and didn't even go inside (i.e., there was no garage).  One house smelled so strongly like cat pee when we opened the door that we just turned around and walked out.  So there are some circumstances where showings may not go as well as you'd think, but I agree - don't go look at a house if you think it may not suit your needs. 

When we sold in 2022, our showings went well, but the market was really hot at the time.  We had booked 20+ showings over the course of two days and had 3 offers within 24 hours of that first day of showings.  We cancelled the remainder of the showings then, but it was beyond stressful to try to work from home, keep the house clean as the kids just wanted to make messes, and be in and out of the house those two days.


My summer home headache has been a smelly basement.  Last year, we took care of a basement sewer pipe smell.  This summer, the basement started smelling gross again.  Over a few weeks, we determined the smell was related to the air conditioner, likely the drain pan.  My dad showed me how to access the pan and put little tablets in there that are biocides and kill growth like mold and bacteria that grow in the condensation that wouldn't drain.  It would neutralize the smell for a day, then it would come raging back.  I'd pour bleach in the drain pipe, and would get the same result.  It was so frustrating - then my dad suggested we replace the drain pipe itself, which I had considered.  Fixed the problem - though it was irritating that it took two months to figure that out.

I totally can relate to what you are saying. I was searching a few months ago for a new place, and all what I've seen was disastrous. Bad smell in every kitchen I entered, and all the backyards I saw were like a jungle.

Anyway, I bought one in bad condition and renovated it. It was a big headache for me, but no alternatives.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Orbert on September 15, 2023, 10:34:16 AM
Oh man, that brings back memories of some of the houses we looked at when we were shopping...

One absolutely reeked of fish.  It hit you in the face the second you opened the front door.  There was a Korean family living there and they were preparing dinner at the time, but man, the way the smell seemed to permeate the entire building seemed to indicate that the smell was permanently embedded into the very walls and floors.  Also, there were three bedrooms, but we couldn't even check out two of them.  One had a sleeping child in it that they didn't want to disturb, and the other... I don't even remember.  Doesn't matter, since we weren't going to buy that one anyway.  Our agent was pretty disgusted and said he'd have words with the selling agent.  This was an arranged, scheduling showing, and a complete waste of our time.

One house seemed okay until we got to the basement.  Unfinished concrete slab, which wasn't a deal-breaker since the house I grew up in was like that.  Lay out some rugs, or get it carpeted, and the kids'll have somewhere to play.  The deal-breaker was that the slab had a huge fissure in it with actual water and dirt visible underneath.  Again, our agent could not believe that someone had listed the house in this condition.

Another one had the characteristic smell of "dampness" (water damage) in the basement.  You can tell.

These were houses that people were trying to sell.  It hadn't occurred to them that they might want to make them, you know, presentable?
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: faizoff on September 21, 2023, 05:25:11 PM
After one year of home ownership, the AC coil went kaput. Unit is only 2 years old so part is under warranty but will have to pay labor cost.

Going to spend one night without an AC in this blistering Florida 90 F.

At least the guy has a spare and will replace tomorrow.

Yay more repairs
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: King Postwhore on September 21, 2023, 06:57:39 PM
Fuuuuck.

Gotca quote to replace all my gutters with the leaf shields.  $2100.00. Not bad.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Orbert on September 21, 2023, 09:03:29 PM
Not bad at all!  Mine were over $6000.00.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Chino on September 23, 2023, 03:03:55 AM
Damn. I got that done back in summer 2020 and it was only $1600. That was with them thinking I was getting a roof too.

I wonder what it'd cost at today's prices. I was talking to the contractor who did $8500 in tree removal for me that same summer. He said that same job would easily be $12,000 today. Probably more because I didn't need to rent cops for the two days to shut down my road. Covid had nobody on the roads, so they rolled the dice and didn't hire them.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: King Postwhore on September 23, 2023, 05:22:32 AM
Not bad at all!  Mine were over $6000.00.

Leave guard, white. My house is probably smaller than yours Bob.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Orbert on September 24, 2023, 06:50:09 AM
We went with a company called LeafFilter.  We looked at Leaf Guard and all the others, and maybe it was just that the LeafFilter guy was a good salesman, but I never did understand how Leaf Guard was supposed to work.  It always looked to me like the leaves would not just flow over the little slit, but could easily drop into the troughs.  LeafFilter was more expensive, but with the lifetime warranty blah blah blah, it seemed worth it.  Also, yeah, we've got a lot of roofline.  It's a split-level house with a carport.  Much linear footage equals mucho dinero.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: jingle.boy on September 24, 2023, 06:55:58 AM
We went with a company called LeafFilter.  We looked at Leaf Guard and all the others, and maybe it was just that the LeafFilter guy was a good salesman, but I never did understand how Leaf Guard was supposed to work.  It always looked to me like the leaves would not just flow over the little slit, but could easily drop into the troughs.  LeafFilter was more expensive, but with the lifetime warranty blah blah blah, it seemed worth it.  Also, yeah, we've got a lot of roofline.  It's a split-level house with a carport.  Much linear footage equals mucho dinero.

We had the LeafFilter guy out over the summer.  Sorry Bob, but it's a borderline scam.  High pressure sales tactics (ie, sign now or the price goes away), and their first quote started at $8000, and after 15 minutes of saying "no" to him, the price eventually worked it's way down to about $2000.  Even after another "we're not deciding today", and we were getting pretty fed up with him, he wanted to call his "regional VP" to speak with us.  Mrs.jingle lost her shit on him, and I practically had to throw him out of our backyard.  Did a little research afterwards, and the reviews of the product were pretty mixed.

It was the exact same selling tactics as time-shares, except in my backyard (and I didn't get a free DVD player) :lol
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Orbert on September 24, 2023, 03:46:47 PM
Well, shit.  The reviews we checked all seemed pretty positive.  It was a lot of money, but I figured if it was a superior product with a lifetime guarantee, then it made sense that it would cost more.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: T-ski on October 27, 2023, 05:45:19 PM
So we’ve got a bit of a conundrum.

Our home insurance company sent us a letter about three months ago saying they would no longer be working with the agency we were going through so we needed to find a new insurance company. We worked with the agency and found a company we felt good about, did the paperwork and everything and thought we were set.

Yesterday we received a letter from the new insurance company saying they are terminating our coverage after they did a visual inspection of our house. Their reasonings were mildew stains on our garage (which takes 15 minutes to clean with our power washer), one crack in our foundation (it’s an 80 year old house), and our roof, which is about 15 years old, has “significant granular loss and is at the end of its life.” (which is not true at all).

I’d fix the crack but weather conditions in Wisconsin currently aren’t conducive to an effective fix and no way in hell am I paying for a new roof.

We now have approximately a month to find a new insurance company and are completely nervous another inspection will yield the same result.

Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: jingle.boy on October 28, 2023, 06:30:08 AM
Da Fuq?  I've never heard of a home inspection for home insurance.  Then again, I think the general market and coverage for HI is different up here.  Like, my coverage only is for truly catastrophic issues (fire, floods, weather damage etc ...)  If my roof leaks, or I need to replace it ... that's on my own dime.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: axeman90210 on January 25, 2024, 05:25:29 AM
Soooooo any advice for a hopeful soon-to-be first-time homebuyer?
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Grappler on January 25, 2024, 07:50:13 AM
Soooooo any advice for a hopeful soon-to-be first-time homebuyer?

Have fun and don't be afraid to make it "your own." 
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Stadler on January 25, 2024, 07:57:28 AM
Soooooo any advice for a hopeful soon-to-be first-time homebuyer?

- Keep up with the little stuff.  Little stuff almost always becomes big stuff, and big stuff is almost always more expensive than the little stuff.

- Be realistic.  Shit's gonna happen, and it's part of doing business. 

- Have fun with it.  It's YOURS.  Make it yours. 

If this is on the horizon for you, I'm happy for you.  Good luck!!! 

(Oh, bonus tip: during the purchase phase, don't hesitate to get experts in to help you.  If you want an inspection? Don't let them bully you into not doing it; you can do an inspection without it being grounds for ending the purchase contract, which is what some sellers are worried about.  It's a weird psychological thing, but that water problem that you knew about and knowingly walked into "feels" better than the same - or lesser - water problem that you find out about six months after purchase.)
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: lordxizor on January 25, 2024, 08:06:39 AM
Make sure you budget and save for repairs and maintenance. You'll have a few small things every year and a big thing every few years. And learn to do minor maintenance and repairs yourself. You can find anything on YouTube.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: hefdaddy42 on January 25, 2024, 08:20:57 AM
Start watching HGTV immediately.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: cramx3 on January 25, 2024, 08:38:27 AM
Make sure you budget and save for repairs and maintenance. You'll have a few small things every year and a big thing every few years. And learn to do minor maintenance and repairs yourself. You can find anything on YouTube.

10 years in my house and I'm still a terrible handy man.  I can't do shit  :lol thankfully, my gf moved in last year and her father has been super helpful with showing me how to do some things (replaced the hose valve otuside the house that froze, replaced the bath drain that started leaking, hooked me up with his power wash - he offered to do my house, I said no and did it myself, but he was there to help if needed).  I've been fortunate for that regard because those are kind of simple fixes that I could never do on my own and would pay a lot more money to get a professional in. 

I actually do have a much larger project to tackle this year.  My front steps are crumbling.  It's becoming a safety hazard as it's leading to the hand rails losing stability.  I need to get that fixed before someone gets hurt and sues me. Thinking the spring though because with the winter weather, it's going to deteroriate the steps further and so just got to survive with it a little longer.  I'll hire someone, no way I know what I'm doing there and my gf's father says he's got a guy. (my landscaper also offered to take on the job, but I'm not terribly trustworthy of him to do that).
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Nick on January 25, 2024, 08:39:55 AM
Soooooo any advice for a hopeful soon-to-be first-time homebuyer?

If you're hopeful, I'm assuming you haven't had an offer accepted yet? In that case it's be realistic in your search. Especially when it comes to your abilities and what you're comfortable with. Know what your top priorities are, no what you can and can't live with. When it comes to things to be worked on, think about how soon, if you're able to do it, or if you'll have the additional funds to have someone else do it.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: axeman90210 on January 25, 2024, 04:14:23 PM
Thanks all. I'm still early in the process, I have a realtor and have been talking with a couple mortgage providers this week to gauge rates and my budget.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Jamesman42 on January 25, 2024, 07:05:16 PM
Fill your house with stuff at your leisure as you make it your own. Maybe that's more true for me with 2 kids and not much time, but we took years to settle in and make our house feel like it was ours. We still want some things done, most importantly to paint the white walls, but it will get there. Part of the journey.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Cool Chris on January 25, 2024, 07:09:39 PM
So we’ve got a bit of a conundrum....

What was the result of this?

axeman90210,

Make sure you budget and save for repairs and maintenance. You'll have a few small things every year and a big thing every few years. And learn to do minor maintenance and repairs yourself. You can find anything on YouTube.

This, but while I don't mean to discount what others have said, but regarding maintenance and repairs, keep in mind just because you watched a TikTok or YouTube video of someone installing an outlet, that doesn't make you a journeyman electrician.  :)  Sometimes it's just better to call a professional. Doing remodeling we see lots of "homeowner work" that usually ends up with us doing work more to fix the crappy work they did before we can get on with what we were originally hired to do.

Regarding the purchase, we did ours in 2009, in a totally different economic period. Unless there is an underlying urgency, I would start off by saying be patient.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Jamesman42 on January 25, 2024, 07:13:44 PM
Our dishwasher recently was malfunctioning, and reading online how to fix it, it was straightforward and yet I had to get near cables but also some standing water at the bottom. I just don't like taking a chance of doing something wrong and getting electrocuted so I had the guy come out and look. I would've done it right but it wasn't worth the small and probably unwarranted fearful chance.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Podaar on January 26, 2024, 05:18:38 AM
Regarding the purchase, we did ours in 2009, in a totally different economic period. Unless there is an underlying urgency, I would start off by saying be patient.

This seems wise, to me. Odds are that interest rates will continue to fall until summer.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: hefdaddy42 on January 26, 2024, 06:52:42 AM
Sometimes it's just better to call a professional.
In my experience, you can remove that "sometimes" lol
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Chino on January 26, 2024, 06:54:21 AM
Soooooo any advice for a hopeful soon-to-be first-time homebuyer?

Have fire extinguishers and plungers in multiple, easy to access locations. 

Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: cramx3 on January 26, 2024, 08:07:06 AM
Regarding the purchase, we did ours in 2009, in a totally different economic period. Unless there is an underlying urgency, I would start off by saying be patient.

This seems wise, to me. Odds are that interest rates will continue to fall until summer.

Patience is definitely a good thing to have in home buying.  And while I also lean to believe rates will drop, I wouldn't use that as a reason to hold off potentially buying a house you might fall in love with.  You just can't predict the market, but if the house is "the one" then I don't think there's a wrong time to buy (assuming you can afford it and are safe in your job).
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: lordxizor on January 26, 2024, 09:39:36 PM
Patience is really hard in my experience when purchasing a home. Of course there's never a perfect house, so you could always be waiting for that next house that's just a little better, or a little cheaper. I've never felt great about the houses we've bought. I always feel like we comprimised too much and paid too much. But we also had some unique criteria this last time which made houses that fit rare (5+ bedroom on more than an acre). Someday maybe we'll build the perfect house on the perfect land, but probably not. Just find a house that checks most of the boxes, that you feel pretty good about, make a reasonable offer, and hope for the best.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: faizoff on January 26, 2024, 09:53:07 PM
Budget for unexpected repairs. In my one year of home ownership, I've had an unexpected patio ceiling collapse, an AC coil replacement and I just won the lottery a few hours ago with a burst water pipe in my lawn in the front yard. I'm in Florida so no freezing pipes though it has been unexpectedly cold on and off. Either way, not sure how much this is going to set me back and what portion of it I can DIY it.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Podaar on January 27, 2024, 05:06:51 AM
Make friends with the following people, and be certain that they owe you favors: A journeyman electrician, a plumber, an HVAC tech, a carpenter, a finish carpenter (they're different), and anyone who can lift 250 lbs over their head without grunting. Optionally, a sheet-rocker, a bricklayer, and a tile setter.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: jingle.boy on January 27, 2024, 05:12:04 AM
Soooooo any advice for a hopeful soon-to-be first-time homebuyer?

Have fire extinguishers and plungers in multiple, easy to access locations.

Agreed.  Bedside table for the latter is crucial!

Budget for unexpected repairs. In my one year of home ownership, I've had an unexpected patio ceiling collapse, an AC coil replacement and I just won the lottery a few hours ago with a burst water pipe in my lawn in the front yard. I'm in Florida so no freezing pipes though it has been unexpectedly cold on and off. Either way, not sure how much this is going to set me back and what portion of it I can DIY it.

This.  So.  Much.

Also, plan to do minor improvements (eg, paint, light fixtures, door/cupboard handles ... ) so that you can make the house fit your own style.  The longer you leave it in the condition you moved in, the more it can feel like you're simply living in someone else's house.  Within a few years of owning both of my last two houses, we'd painted every surface (walls and ceilings), and replaced the flooring (all of it in my last house; main floor in my current house).

Make friends with the following people, and be certain that they owe you favors: A journeyman electrician, a plumber, an HVAC tech, a carpenter, a finish carpenter (they're different), and anyone who can lift 250 lbs over their head without grunting. Optionally, a sheet-rocker, a bricklayer, and a tile setter.

Good advice.  If you can't make those friends, at least know a reliable local mom/pop place for most of that - especially plumbing and HVAC.  We've had emergency plumbing and heat issues, and you want those people showing up pronto.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: King Postwhore on January 27, 2024, 06:00:01 AM
This year I need to purchase a new furnace. A lot of green there bruhs.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: jingle.boy on January 27, 2024, 06:15:12 AM
This year I need to purchase a new furnace. A lot of green there bruhs.

Did that last summer ... the AC went first, and the furnace was just as old and bound to go at any time, so we double-dipped - better discount when you combine the purchase, and last thing I need is the furnace dying in the middle of January.  We already had 2 other issues (naturally, both on a Sunday morning in winter) with the furnace.  I was kinda amazed to hear them say that furnace/AC are lucky to last 20 years nowadays.  I had to replace the furnace on my last house at 26 years.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: King Postwhore on January 27, 2024, 06:25:14 AM
My nephew works in the field so well get a discount. We have a tankless hot water system. I'm lucky to get 5 minutes of hot water for a shower.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Podaar on January 27, 2024, 06:44:29 AM
My nephew works in the field so well get a discount. We have a tankless hot water system. I'm lucky to get 5 minutes of hot water for a shower.

Really?! Your unit is severely undersized then (not a euphemism). I have a tankless and I can shower indefinitely while the dishwasher and laundry washer are running.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: King Postwhore on January 27, 2024, 06:49:52 AM
My nephew works in the field so well get a discount. We have a tankless hot water system. I'm lucky to get 5 minutes of hot water for a shower.

Really?! Your unit is severely undersized then (not a euphemism). I have a tankless and I can shower indefinitely while the dishwasher and laundry washer are running.

Gregg, my furnace is also 30 years old. Funny though, the sink has endless hot water.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: jingle.boy on January 27, 2024, 07:20:04 AM
My nephew works in the field so well get a discount. We have a tankless hot water system. I'm lucky to get 5 minutes of hot water for a shower.

Really?! Your unit is severely undersized then (not a euphemism). I have a tankless and I can shower indefinitely while the dishwasher and laundry washer are running.

Yeah... that's the whole point of a tankless... it's a constant stream of hot water.  My only beef with it is how long it takes to actually get the flow of hot water going.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: jammindude on January 27, 2024, 12:00:03 PM
For the first time in my life, I’m actually fairly financially stable. I’m two years into a salaried position as a building inspector for a small, local, fairly prosperous jurisdiction. But I only fairly recently got “back to black” and haven’t had the opportunity to save much. In fact, I make enough to get by, but I don’t have a lot off the top to stash away.

But now I’m 20 years into this home and I feel like everything is going to hit critical mass very soon.

I have a huge rear deck that is in massive need of repair. It is my only means of egress to the back yard, so I can’t just eliminate it.

My furnace is making horrible noises and is on the verge of going belly up.

I have a HUGE maple tree in my backyard that is in desperate need of topping. But I need to have it assessed as well.

There’s also an old hot tub shell in the backyard that the previous owner turned into a planter and planted a Japanese maple in it. Which was beautiful when we moved in, but a few over 100 degree days two summers ago killed the tree, and the hot tub shell/planter is falling apart and become an attraction for critters.

I’ve only got about 150k left on what is pretty much a 750k home…but it needs TLC and I’m not sure if I can afford payments on a home improvement loan or not.

So ya…this house needs about 50k of work.  We had the roof redone 17 years ago…but that might need to be redone within the next 5 years as well
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: DragonAttack on January 27, 2024, 03:42:07 PM
'New' home owner?  Depending on the age of your home, it could have the old clay pipes as the main drainage to your area's drains.  Eventually, tree roots will crack them and grow into.  We've been here for twelve years, and in our community of 369 homes, we'll see a handful having them dug up every year.  Our turn came last year.  Fortunately, it happened the day after returning from a trip, so the dog/house sitter didn't have to experience the back up (and I caught it before there was a huge mess in the basement while doing laundry).  $7800 later....

If we were to move, we'd mention that repair as a big selling point.

Home inspections:  some miss the obvious, like overwired fuse boxes, or water line shut off valves right above a fuse box (a big no-no).

Don't be turned off by the colors in the house.  We repainted all the rooms in our two homes we purchased but one.  Look at reasonable potential.
Hell, I finally panelled our small basement three years ago.  Being retired allowed me to remove the old shelving and closets and spruce it up at a decent daily pace.  Part of the joy is making the home into 'yours'.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Stadler on January 28, 2024, 08:06:25 AM
'New' home owner?  Depending on the age of your home, it could have the old clay pipes as the main drainage to your area's drains.  Eventually, tree roots will crack them and grow into.  We've been here for twelve years, and in our community of 369 homes, we'll see a handful having them dug up every year.  Our turn came last year.  Fortunately, it happened the day after returning from a trip, so the dog/house sitter didn't have to experience the back up (and I caught it before there was a huge mess in the basement while doing laundry).  $7800 later....

If we were to move, we'd mention that repair as a big selling point.

Home inspections:  some miss the obvious, like overwired fuse boxes, or water line shut off valves right above a fuse box (a big no-no).

Don't be turned off by the colors in the house.  We repainted all the rooms in our two homes we purchased but one.  Look at reasonable potential.
Hell, I finally panelled our small basement three years ago.  Being retired allowed me to remove the old shelving and closets and spruce it up at a decent daily pace.  Part of the joy is making the home into 'yours'.

I think maybe excepting the new houses we bought in Georgia and Charlotte, I've painted, myself, every room in every house I've ever owned.  The color of the walls doesn't even remotely factor into the purchase decision; though, having said that, if you see that the house hasn't been painted in decades, that is an indicator - maybe - of how they maintained the place.  I also change out every plug outlet and switch to new when I paint the room, but I admit that may be a bit over the top (though not, again, depending on the age of the house).
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: T-ski on January 28, 2024, 09:27:34 AM
So we’ve got a bit of a conundrum....

What was the result of this?

Found another insurance company and everything is fine. Still a little ticked that we had to go through what we did.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: T-ski on January 28, 2024, 09:37:21 AM
Soooooo any advice for a hopeful soon-to-be first-time homebuyer?

All good advice so far. If you don’t have a basic tool set get one or ask for them as gifts.

Is it going to be a long term house or a short term house? When we bought ours 20 years ago we knew we didn’t want to move anymore, so we made sure the neighborhood, school district, commute, etc all were what we wanted.

Budget, budget, budget. Shit will happen.

Man cave no matter what.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: hefdaddy42 on January 29, 2024, 09:13:28 AM
So we’ve got a bit of a conundrum....

What was the result of this?

Found another insurance company and everything is fine. Still a little ticked that we had to go through what we did.
:tup
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: axeman90210 on February 17, 2024, 06:47:59 AM
I'm trying to decide if my doubts right now are practical or just me being gunshy about the biggest expenditure of my life. In talking with some mortgage companies, I can probably only put down 15% as a down payment if I buy this summer so that I leave money behind for closing costs and whatnot, which means PMI on my mortgage. Or, I can rent for another year, go through another year-end bonus cycle at work, and comfortably put down the full 20% next year. Also a decent chance that rates are better next year. anyway.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Nick on February 17, 2024, 07:58:13 AM
I think it would be worth waiting if you can just comfortably stay put where you are right now. If you have to move again to stay someplace for just a year, then it might be worth just paying the little extra PMI.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: King Postwhore on February 17, 2024, 08:01:54 AM
I agree with Nick. PMI is a 10 year ordeal. What's one year more compared to 10 with PMI.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: hunnus2000 on February 17, 2024, 08:47:32 AM
I'm trying to decide if my doubts right now are practical or just me being gunshy about the biggest expenditure of my life. In talking with some mortgage companies, I can probably only put down 15% as a down payment if I buy this summer so that I leave money behind for closing costs and whatnot, which means PMI on my mortgage. Or, I can rent for another year, go through another year-end bonus cycle at work, and comfortably put down the full 20% next year. Also a decent chance that rates are better next year. anyway.

PMI is a scam IMO. Depending on your lender, they end up selling the mortgage to a large bank and your just giving away extra money to that bank.

From a website:
https://frameworkhomeownership.org/get-rid-of-pmi?gad_source=1&gclid=Cj0KCQiAz8GuBhCxARIsAOpzk8y8YHwWAL2dcRNdp2xUplHKUBFL9J1he6Gzl2_PZuM60lFh06LYuOoaAgbTEALw_wcB

MAY 25 2021
Let’s face it: PMI is a pain in the butt.

Private mortgage insurance is required for most loans with a less than 20% down payment. Since lower down payment loans tend to be risky, lenders typically require a private mortgage insurance policy to reduce their exposure if the borrower defaults on their loan. In other words, PMI is put in place to protect lenders, but you’re the one who pays for it.

The good news is that PMI won’t last forever. Here’s how it can go away: 

Cancel it at 20% equity
Since PMI applies to buyers with less than 20% as a down payment, once you reach 20% equity, you can request that it be canceled.


There's good information on this website.

2 things I recommend if you can swing it:

1) Go for a 15 year note instead of a 30 year
2) Make an extra payment every month - you would be surprised on how quickly you're paying on the principal.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: Stadler on February 18, 2024, 07:25:17 AM
I'm trying to decide if my doubts right now are practical or just me being gunshy about the biggest expenditure of my life. In talking with some mortgage companies, I can probably only put down 15% as a down payment if I buy this summer so that I leave money behind for closing costs and whatnot, which means PMI on my mortgage. Or, I can rent for another year, go through another year-end bonus cycle at work, and comfortably put down the full 20% next year. Also a decent chance that rates are better next year. anyway.

PMI is a scam IMO. Depending on your lender, they end up selling the mortgage to a large bank and your just giving away extra money to that bank.

From a website:
https://frameworkhomeownership.org/get-rid-of-pmi?gad_source=1&gclid=Cj0KCQiAz8GuBhCxARIsAOpzk8y8YHwWAL2dcRNdp2xUplHKUBFL9J1he6Gzl2_PZuM60lFh06LYuOoaAgbTEALw_wcB

MAY 25 2021
Let’s face it: PMI is a pain in the butt.

Private mortgage insurance is required for most loans with a less than 20% down payment. Since lower down payment loans tend to be risky, lenders typically require a private mortgage insurance policy to reduce their exposure if the borrower defaults on their loan. In other words, PMI is put in place to protect lenders, but you’re the one who pays for it.

The good news is that PMI won’t last forever. Here’s how it can go away: 

Cancel it at 20% equity
Since PMI applies to buyers with less than 20% as a down payment, once you reach 20% equity, you can request that it be canceled.


There's good information on this website.

2 things I recommend if you can swing it:

1) Go for a 15 year note instead of a 30 year
2) Make an extra payment every month - you would be surprised on how quickly you're paying on the principal.

I' won't go so far as to say "scam", but Nos. 1 and 2 here are spot on.   You have to make sure it can be canceled, though; on some notes it's NOT without refinancing, and THAT'S where it gets to be a scam, since refinancing DOES cost money and if the new terms aren't optimal enough, you can end up losing money over all.

For me, I don't think "PMI only" would be enough to not buy.  But it's certainly a factor.  If you have a place to live, and it's not (like Nick said) something you're going to have to pay twice for a move), if you feel rates are going to move meaningfully, the PMI is just icing on the cake to holding off for a year. If you have nowhere to live, and you have a great house to go to, and a great rate, I wouldn't let "just PMI" turn me away unless you can't have it automatically removed at 20%.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: cramx3 on February 18, 2024, 07:46:22 AM
2 things I recommend if you can swing it:

1) Go for a 15 year note instead of a 30 year
2) Make an extra payment every month - you would be surprised on how quickly you're paying on the principal.

1 -  for sure, if you can make those payments, a 15 year loan would be a great idea, generally.

2 - I guess this might make sense due to high interest rates today?  This, to my knowledge, has been a no no for all that I've known though as that money is better put in the market or other investments than paying off a mortgage early.  Granted, I feel like sometimes this is a mental game and I've even thrown a some extra cash at times into my mortgage just to see that balance go down  :lol

As for the PMI question.

I'd say wait it out.  Unless you think you've found a dream home that is worth it.  Wait a year and saving that PMI will be huge in the long run, plus maybe interest rates are better.  But if you can afford it and find a home you don't want to pass on, then it is harder to say to wait it out.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: ReaperKK on February 18, 2024, 08:51:40 AM
I'm trying to decide if my doubts right now are practical or just me being gunshy about the biggest expenditure of my life. In talking with some mortgage companies, I can probably only put down 15% as a down payment if I buy this summer so that I leave money behind for closing costs and whatnot, which means PMI on my mortgage. Or, I can rent for another year, go through another year-end bonus cycle at work, and comfortably put down the full 20% next year. Also a decent chance that rates are better next year. anyway.

PMI is a scam IMO. Depending on your lender, they end up selling the mortgage to a large bank and your just giving away extra money to that bank.

From a website:
https://frameworkhomeownership.org/get-rid-of-pmi?gad_source=1&gclid=Cj0KCQiAz8GuBhCxARIsAOpzk8y8YHwWAL2dcRNdp2xUplHKUBFL9J1he6Gzl2_PZuM60lFh06LYuOoaAgbTEALw_wcB

MAY 25 2021
Let’s face it: PMI is a pain in the butt.

Private mortgage insurance is required for most loans with a less than 20% down payment. Since lower down payment loans tend to be risky, lenders typically require a private mortgage insurance policy to reduce their exposure if the borrower defaults on their loan. In other words, PMI is put in place to protect lenders, but you’re the one who pays for it.

The good news is that PMI won’t last forever. Here’s how it can go away: 

Cancel it at 20% equity
Since PMI applies to buyers with less than 20% as a down payment, once you reach 20% equity, you can request that it be canceled.


There's good information on this website.

2 things I recommend if you can swing it:

1) Go for a 15 year note instead of a 30 year
2) Make an extra payment every month - you would be surprised on how quickly you're paying on the principal.

I' won't go so far as to say "scam", but Nos. 1 and 2 here are spot on.   You have to make sure it can be canceled, though; on some notes it's NOT without refinancing, and THAT'S where it gets to be a scam, since refinancing DOES cost money and if the new terms aren't optimal enough, you can end up losing money over all.

For me, I don't think "PMI only" would be enough to not buy.  But it's certainly a factor.  If you have a place to live, and it's not (like Nick said) something you're going to have to pay twice for a move), if you feel rates are going to move meaningfully, the PMI is just icing on the cake to holding off for a year. If you have nowhere to live, and you have a great house to go to, and a great rate, I wouldn't let "just PMI" turn me away unless you can't have it automatically removed at 20%.

To piggyback of Stad's post make sure you can actually cancel PMI. Our first mortage was an FHA mortgage where you could not cancel PMI. We refinanced to a ridiculously low interest rate and got the PMI knocked off.
Title: Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
Post by: hunnus2000 on February 18, 2024, 09:21:28 AM
I could have sworn that we were able to avoid PMI because of the way our loan was structured but it's been over 25 years ago. It could have been that we didn't with a big financial company like Chase but a smaller Lendor who then sold the mortgage to Chase. I definitely remember getting that letter in the mail.

Anyway, there should be ways to get around it. (I think)