I am excite for the new Doctor.
That is all.
"v. Patrick Troughton"
I see what you did there. :lol
Ooh, a new Dr Who thread.
I don't like it.
"v. Patrick Troughton"
I see what you did there. :lol
So do I. The old thread was wearing a bit thin.
It's a shame that Tenth Planet is probably the most boring regeneration of them all.Be fair, it was the first one ever, and that the time they never expected it to becomes such an iconic thing, it was just a way to deal with Hartnell's ill health but carry the show on.
Ooh, a new Dr Who thread.
I don't like it.
So is everyone getting hype for tomorrow?!Yeah, it's going to be awesome! Gonna watch with some friends tonight and we'll have fish fingers and custard :D
This airs at 5am local time, so I'll watch it as soon as I wake up. This will be my first season of watching Dr Who as it airs, since The Day of the Doctor was my first episode.
Fab episode! Really liking Capaldi already, and I like the way they are hinting at a slightly darker side to his personality.
I also loved the reference back to the "woman in the shop" from the Bells of St. John. I've wondered that a number of times, and at some point recently remembered it again and wondered if they'd ever address it. Should have known to trust Moffat more. :lol
TIL, Kotowboy smiles.
Gorgeous, but sadly too small. :-[
Around the world, Doctor Who is as popular as it has ever been, probably more so, and I suspect those who don't like the new stuff are quite annoyed about that so speak up against it even more.Fucking THIS.
I love when people rant about Doctor Who and prove that all they likely ever watched was the new series, and maybe not even the first season.
Jon Pertwee's Third Doctor was the prototype for "the Doctor lays in bed in his pajamas while recovering from regeneration." Back in, you know, 1970. :lol
If there's one classic Doctor Who episode everyone should have watched by now, it's Genesis of the Daleks.
Haven't seen any of the new episodes, but I don't believe anything can make a Dalek scary. They're just too lame.To this I say:
That entire first series of Doctor Who with Ecclestone really made the Daleks scary. Especially the episode "Dalek"
That entire first series of Doctor Who with Ecclestone really made the Daleks scary. Especially the episode "Dalek"
Ok.
I can't understand what he is saying a lot of the time (talks too quick)
He is too serious. All the jokes come from elsewhere, instead of from him (all doctors since the reboot have been funny)
And, on another note (not just Peter Capaldi)
The stories haven't been all that good.
I can't understand what he is saying a lot of the time (talks too quick)It's definitely not the speed, because he talks MUCH slower than Matt Smith. It's probably just his accent, but I think you'll get used to that.
He is too serious. All the jokes come from elsewhere, instead of from him (all doctors since the reboot have been funny)Disagree strongly here - he jokes a lot but with more of a dry, sarcastic humour (more like Ecclestone than the last two doctors).
And, on another note (not just Peter Capaldi)Fair play, that's a matter of taste/preference.
The stories haven't been all that good.
My dad watches it with me, and closed captioning pisses him off to no end :rollinOk.
I can't understand what he is saying a lot of the time (talks too quick)
He is too serious. All the jokes come from elsewhere, instead of from him (all doctors since the reboot have been funny)
And, on another note (not just Peter Capaldi)
The stories haven't been all that good.
Closed captioning is your friend.
I can't understand what he is saying a lot of the time (talks too quick)It's definitely not the speed, because he talks MUCH slower than Matt Smith. It's probably just his accent, but I think you'll get used to that.
-Do you use it to shrink the surgeons so they can climb inside the patients?:lol Love it.
-Exactly
-Fantastic idea for a movie. Terrible idea for a proctologist.
:lol
Karen Gillan's accent isn't very strong. Capaldi is proper Scottish. I think you'll get used to it - I am already as my girlfriend and her family are Scottish (plus I have a number of Scottish colleagues) and I've followed every line in the two episodes so far!
Do you like any of DW since the reboot?
I thought the ending with shooting the arrow being enough to get them into orbit was beyond ridiculousI've read this comment elsewhere, but what was so ridiculous about it? Obviously it was a bit silly and cheesy, but I've seen people describing it as a plot hole.
I thought the ending with shooting the arrow being enough to get them into orbit was beyond ridiculousI've read this comment elsewhere, but what was so ridiculous about it? Obviously it was a bit silly and cheesy, but I've seen people describing it as a plot hole.
Well yes, that's how escape velocity works. Once you're in orbit you need very little fuel to do anything after that, it's getting into orbit that's the hard part. That's basic real-word science, not even sci-fi.I thought the ending with shooting the arrow being enough to get them into orbit was beyond ridiculousI've read this comment elsewhere, but what was so ridiculous about it? Obviously it was a bit silly and cheesy, but I've seen people describing it as a plot hole.
First of all, requiring gold to power the engines was kinda contrived to fit with the time period of the story, but I can let that one slide easily enough.
And then the Doctor knows they don't have enough gold to make it to orbit, but a tiny little arrow just happens to be enough to push it over the edge to make the difference.
And it wasn't even put into an engine, it was just shot randomly into the side of the ship.Ok I suppose that wasn't really explained. But then from what we saw the gold was being used to make circuitry, rather than as a pure fuel, so it's hardly that outlandish, as the outside of the ship will be connected to the rest of it.
Well yes, that's how escape velocity works. Once you're in orbit you need very little fuel to do anything after that, it's getting into orbit that's the hard part. That's basic real-word science, not even sci-fi.I thought the ending with shooting the arrow being enough to get them into orbit was beyond ridiculousI've read this comment elsewhere, but what was so ridiculous about it? Obviously it was a bit silly and cheesy, but I've seen people describing it as a plot hole.
First of all, requiring gold to power the engines was kinda contrived to fit with the time period of the story, but I can let that one slide easily enough.
And then the Doctor knows they don't have enough gold to make it to orbit, but a tiny little arrow just happens to be enough to push it over the edge to make the difference.QuoteAnd it wasn't even put into an engine, it was just shot randomly into the side of the ship.Ok I suppose that wasn't really explained. But then from what we saw the gold was being used to make circuitry, rather than as a pure fuel, so it's hardly that outlandish, as the outside of the ship will be connected to the rest of it.
For it to be plausible scientifically, it would have made the difference between barely making it into space but burning up from skimming the atmosphere, and achieving escape velocity. That's not what happened at all.Well no, because they stopped that from happening before it got that far. :lol But that's exactly what the Doctor was worried about - that it would burn up, explode, and take out half of England.
That's not how circuitry works either. I can't think of any justification for how that worked.Does that matter though? It's an alien spacecraft, it could work in all sorts of ways. I mean, yeah they could explain how that ship works, where the metal alloy casing for the ship conducts energy from the outside to help power it, for example. That sort of thing, and far more outlandish sciencey ideas, happen in DW all the time. Within the context of the show, it's completely plausible. But I'm glad they don't explain every little thing like that, personally, as I think that would get a bit boring.
I kind of agree with Blob.
Maybe it fares better on a second viewing, I dunno. We'll see.
Where was the nod to Carnival? Must have missed thatWhen the Doctor mentioned the Miniscope at the beginning.
If anything, Q is The MasterSure, just ask him.
The impression I got from the episode was that it was great. But I'm a bit confused though. Was there a hiding-creature or not? I feel like they tried to end it as if there never was anything (given that they always careful to provide an 'alternate explanation' for the weird things that happened), but that means that some things in the episode made little sense.
I think the monsters do exist, but since their whole purpose is to hide, they should never be seen. Clara ended up somewhere in time where the Doctor was still a child, and as a result provided the first instance for the Doctor to experience the 'something under your bed' thing. But in this case, it was Clara, not a monster. This instance may have caused the Doctor's longing of finding the creatures under the beds, but it also resulted in the Doctor understanding not to look for them (the "LISTEN" thing on the blackboard, which was what Clara repeated to the young doctor all the time). I think. :P
Yeah, I really liked 'Listen' even if that Clara bit towards the end in the cottage confused me a bit and was unnecessary.
I was liking Capaldi's Doctor but this episode made me love him!
That was absolutely bloody brilliant!
My two cents - the monsters probably are real. The fact that all the characters seem to conclude that they are not doesn't mean anything - that's the whole point, the things stay hidden. I think that's probably the vibe that Moffat was going for.
And yes, it's very strongly implied that Osron is Danny and Clara's great grandson. But this is Moffat, and if it's very strongly implied then it is almost certainly not that simple. Blob, never trust Moffat!
Also, how the hell can they time travel to Gallifrey? That planet is gone from space and time, right? Isn't the Doctor's new life goal to find it? That would seem unnecessary if he could just time travel back to it with the Tardis.
Really enjoyed this episode! Like others have said, I'm still a bit confused about that whole scene in the children's home if there really was no monster-type-thing (also, the chalk? was that the Doctor's fear actually having the power to write?).
It also seemed to me like they were implying that Clara and Danny get together, since I thought he said Orson was part of Clara's timeline (could be wrong there), plus the toy is a "family" heirloom so there must be some kind of familial connection for him to give it to her.
Really enjoyed this episode! Like others have said, I'm still a bit confused about that whole scene in the children's home if there really was no monster-type-thing (also, the chalk? was that the Doctor's fear actually having the power to write?).
It also seemed to me like they were implying that Clara and Danny get together, since I thought he said Orson was part of Clara's timeline (could be wrong there), plus the toy is a "family" heirloom so there must be some kind of familial connection for him to give it to her.
Also, how the hell can they time travel to Gallifrey? That planet is gone from space and time, right? Isn't the Doctor's new life goal to find it? That would seem unnecessary if he could just time travel back to it with the Tardis.
Also, how the hell can they time travel to Gallifrey? That planet is gone from space and time, right? Isn't the Doctor's new life goal to find it? That would seem unnecessary if he could just time travel back to it with the Tardis.
The Gallifrey of the Time War-the one that was time locked and all that hubbub-is gone from space and time.
Gallifrey of the PAST isn't. It's clearly still tricky and dangerous to go there, but it's still there.
Furthermore, "Listen" is a character study on the Doctor himself. Peter Capaldi turns in one hell of a performance as the Doctor in this episode, presenting us with a Doctor unhinged and obsessed on a Sherlockian level over this old theory of his, being completely willing to risk his own life just for the chance to see if he can find any answers. The Doctor wants to justify his fear by proving the existence of a supposed creature, which might be real. We don't know. We don't have to know. In the end, Clara's realization as to the actual origins of the Doctor's theory could be a red herring, but it offers her, the Doctor and Orson an out from the Doctor's potentially lethal obsession and helps him remember that it's fine to be afraid.
I think a part of The Doctor's personality is that he's always risked his life if only to find answers, and also to help others. In showing The Doctor as a kid, we see Clara effectively helping plant that seed that made him The Doctor, helping him overcome his fear. And this episode was all about defining that core trait, as he feels the need to find answers, and also helps Rupert, even though to me The Doctor looked thoroughly terrified inside as he was telling Rupert not to look. He looked like he was almost in tears. It was subtle, but great. I also think that's why The Doctor didn't just pull the covers off whoever it was, because he was too scared to confirm his subconscious childhood fear. To me that was atypical for him, in a way that worked so perfectly for the episode.
I still don't believe it was supposed to be ambiguous that it could have been a monster. I think it was supposed to be ambiguous throughout the episode, then I feel it was resolved at the end that it was nothing, but that the fear we feel in these moments is a good thing, and we should use it to our advantage to overcome it. I do agree that the episode was making a message that it doesn't matter whether there's really a monster, but I don't think we were supposed to have any doubt by the end, only during the ride. And being such a core part of The Doctor's character that she planted, I don't think she wanted to reveal her part.
Either way, it says a lot about the depth of the episode that we can analyze it at this level, and also come to different conclusions.
That's true, but I don't think we generally, if ever, get scenes like the one where the Doctor unlocks the door of Orson's spaceship and orders Clara to go back into the TARDIS. Yes, the Doctor's curiosity has often found him and his companions in danger and he is often compelled to save others, but this is a bit different from that.
This is a situation where the Doctor is deliberately setting up a potential disaster, just to see what the hell might happen. He chose to unlock the door and he chose to stay outside of the TARDIS while Orson's ship was quickly falling apart around him. All so he can see if he can find out what is causing those noises outside and get an answer to his question.
Eh. I still disagree and I have heard a lot of equally solid arguments from others that there was most certainly a monster in the episode. To me, I feel like the episode loses a fair chunk of its power if you give it a straight answer either way. I like that the ending has left me asking a lot of questions with potentially really interesting answers. We'll never actually get them, but that's fine. The point is that "Listen" has made us all think really hard about the episode. :hefdaddy
And yes, it's very strongly implied that Osron is Danny and Clara's great grandson. But this is Moffat, and if it's very strongly implied then it is almost certainly not that simple. Blob, never trust Moffat!
As always, people online are saying that "Moffat must go".
lol
Really enjoyed this episode! Like others have said, I'm still a bit confused about that whole scene in the children's home if there really was no monster-type-thing (also, the chalk? was that the Doctor's fear actually having the power to write?).
It also seemed to me like they were implying that Clara and Danny get together, since I thought he said Orson was part of Clara's timeline (could be wrong there), plus the toy is a "family" heirloom so there must be some kind of familial connection for him to give it to her.
For the writing on the chalkboard, Clara said it looked like his handwriting, so the alternative is that he had a lapse and didn't realize / forgot that he wrote it himself. Coming from Capaldi's Doctor, it wouldn't surprise me either. :lol
My suspicion is that Orson handed her the toy because he heard the stories passed down about Clara and The Doctor from Danny, including the bit in this episode when Danny was young, and any future episodes where Danny might be a companion. I think there will be a future episode where it clicks for him and realizes that Clara visited him as a kid, and she'll have to introduce The Doctor and bring him into the fold. That's my guess.
Orson said he didn't recognize Clara from family photos, but he made reference to time travel running in the family, so it might all refer only to Danny Pink.
I've mentioned it already, but seeing the date scene with Danny and Clara in Listen cemented that belief for me - that Danny actually killed a woman, which is what Moffat was referencing with him being introduced as a "lady killer", because he sure as isn't a very smooth talker in that date scene. As to who he killed... maybe Missy? I mean, she is in Heaven already and interacts with dead people, so that's one possibility, though I'm not completely sold on that one. But I'm quite willing to bet something that the civilian that Danny killed is a woman.
I *think* i saw that episode but I can't remember.
I'll have to check the synopsis on Wiki.
Basically I barely saw any Chris episodes. I saw most of the David episodes and didn't really like Matt at all. :/
I think Capaldi could wind up being remembered as the best Dr.
At *least* in the RTD / Moffatt era.
I *think* i saw that episode but I can't remember.
I'll have to check the synopsis on Wiki.
Basically I barely saw any Chris episodes. I saw most of the David episodes and didn't really like Matt at all. :/
Go do yourself a favor and watch the entirety of Chris's run ASAP. It's literally only thirteen episodes, but some of the best Who episodes ever are in that season (i.e. Dalek) and Chris was one of the absolute best Doctors ever. In fact, up until Capaldi arrived, I'd say he was easily the best of the Modern Who Doctors.
Tennant's first season was about equal overall imo, as it undoubtedly had its fair share of crap too, such as Love and Monsters, and Fear Her.
I think I'd give it the slight edge for the two parters though, and it also had The Girl in the Fireplace, but there wasn't that much difference in quality. I think the quality was on a gradual increase for all of the RTD era, but the Tennant episodes were better just for having Tennant to carry them.
Honestly IMO, the series with Eccleston is a must see. Especially The Empty Child/ The Doctor Dances. And i don't get why Eccleston is constantly rated so low in the fandom, in my list he is fifth after Tom Baker/ Pertwee/ Davison and Capaldi.
The last episode got me thinking. What if there were monsters after all. What if this episode was a teaser for a new enemy, something they are gonna use later, maybe in series 9? Some invisible alien race, that is gonna cause some headache for the doctor later. If i remember correctly, The Silence were introduced in a same way.
Tennant's first season was about equal overall imo, as it undoubtedly had its fair share of crap too, such as Love and Monsters, and Fear Her.
I think I'd give it the slight edge for the two parters though, and it also had The Girl in the Fireplace, but there wasn't that much difference in quality. I think the quality was on a gradual increase for all of the RTD era, but the Tennant episodes were better just for having Tennant to carry them.
I'm honestly cringing just reading this. :lol
Series 1 is probably my favorite season of NuWho so far, although Series 5 is a strong contender too, so to see it being compared to what is probably my absolute least favorite season is astounding. But that's the thing with opinions; we all have 'em.
Also I have to disagree with Ecceleston vs. Tennant as far as their acting goes. Both are terrific actors, but I personally prefer the more subtle approach that Ecceleston demonstrated.
Tennant's first season was about equal overall imo, as it undoubtedly had its fair share of crap too, such as Love and Monsters, and Fear Her.
I think I'd give it the slight edge for the two parters though, and it also had The Girl in the Fireplace, but there wasn't that much difference in quality. I think the quality was on a gradual increase for all of the RTD era, but the Tennant episodes were better just for having Tennant to carry them.
I'm honestly cringing just reading this. :lol
Series 1 is probably my favorite season of NuWho so far, although Series 5 is a strong contender too, so to see it being compared to what is probably my absolute least favorite season is astounding. But that's the thing with opinions; we all have 'em.
Also I have to disagree with Ecceleston vs. Tennant as far as their acting goes. Both are terrific actors, but I personally prefer the more subtle approach that Ecceleston demonstrated.
I just found Eccelston to be completely wrong for the part of The Doctor. He looked like a thug, and always had that out of place goofy smile. He wasn't believable as The Doctor as all of the more recent ones were.
S5 is my favourite, so at least we can find some common ground, but I have no idea how S1 could be considered on par with that. I'd easily consider it the weakest of the RTD era, and I'm not that big on any of the RTD era to begin with. Heck, the best thing about the RTD era was still Moffat. :lol
Well, for starters, neither season is completely perfect. Both have some duds in them; S1 has the Slitheen stories and S5 has The Beast Below, Victory of the Daleks and The Vampires of Venice. But both have some pretty freaking incredible episodes too.
I do agree that Moffat was generally the best thing about RTD's run, but I do think that he's generally suffered a bit in quality since taking over as showrunner. This series seems to be a return to form on his part.
Eccleston was the first doctor I saw, so for that whole "first" season, he was naturally the only doctor in my mind, and watching him regenerate away was sad. Now after seeing it all I think both Tennant and Smith were better Doctors, but Eccleston will always be that first one for me. So I like every doctor of the new-who era.
Eccleston was the first doctor I saw, so for that whole "first" season, he was naturally the only doctor in my mind, and watching him regenerate away was sad. Now after seeing it all I think both Tennant and Smith were better Doctors, but Eccleston will always be that first one for me. So I like every doctor of the new-who era.I like them all as well. Even with the classic era there aren't any that I dislike, though of course I much prefer some to others. But I enjoy the variety of having different Doctors with different personalities.
The only episodes from Nine's run I never cared for were the Slitheen episodes. I enjoyed End of the World. Sounded like something Douglas Adams would have written
Nope, just those three I believe. And Capaldi is the first to sound properly Scottish (McCoy slightly did, but not really).
such as Love and Monsters, and Fear Her.
Are you saying those episodes were good?
Are you saying those episodes were good?
I liked the concept of Fear Her, despite its flaws.
The biggest thing I hated about Fear Her was that the little girl was a terrible actress IMO
Are you saying those episodes were good?
The biggest thing I hated about Fear Her was that the little girl was a terrible actress IMO
The majority of kids on TV are. And it was a stupid story too.
At least Love and Monsters was the fun kind of stupid that was so bad that it's almost good.
Finally got to catch "Listen." Holy crap, that was one of the best, most interesting episodes of DW I've ever seen.
I think it was definitely left ambiguous as to whether the hiding monsters are real. That is the power of the story.
Wasn't bad but wasn't that great either. Seems like the season so far is rotating between one good and one meh episode. And in concept it reminded me a lot to Hide.
Next week's episode looks like another "filler" episode. I don't mean that as a negative thing, it just doesn't appear to be like an important episode to the season.I dunno, hard to tell. It certainly seems to do more than previous episodes on the whole Clara/Danny thing, which seems to be a big part of the arc (having met Orson as well). As is often the case with Moffat, we won't really know until the end of the season!
Next week's episode looks like another "filler" episode. I don't mean that as a negative thing, it just doesn't appear to be like an important episode to the season.I dunno, hard to tell. It certainly seems to do more than previous episodes on the whole Clara/Danny thing, which seems to be a big part of the arc (having met Orson as well). As is often the case with Moffat, we won't really know until the end of the season!
Next week's episode looks like another "filler" episode. I don't mean that as a negative thing, it just doesn't appear to be like an important episode to the season.I dunno, hard to tell. It certainly seems to do more than previous episodes on the whole Clara/Danny thing, which seems to be a big part of the arc (having met Orson as well). As is often the case with Moffat, we won't really know until the end of the season!
Oh right, the Danny Pink thing! Moffat has a writing credit on it too. The Doctor currently knows very little of Clara's latest love interest, so things will likely progress there. I was only thinking of the monster itself, so it doesn't seem to be a really pivotal episode.
But even then, we may still see more of Missy and the promised land. This week looks to be another robot, and we've already had a few other robots involved with that story line. Coincidence? Maybe, but I'm all for more robots. :lol
What's so special about Kill The Moon?
What is Hinchcliffe? I want to know whether it's something that should excite me or not. :lol
Eh, I'm not really into classic Who, so that doesn't excite me. Nothing about that episode jumps out at me, but I'm sure it will be fantastic like the rest of the season. The season arc is unfolding so slowly and subtly that I can't wait to see the later half of the season and how it all comes together.
I think he's still more Pertwee mixed in with Smith
Well, put one of the most alien doctors of all time undercover as a janitor, the comedy alone should be worth it! Plus, I think it will kickstart the chain of events leading up to all the future developements.
Another good episode. My favourite attribute of the current Doctor is that he's a bit of a jerk to people, so this was a great episode for him. Lots of funny lines. I underestimated this episode.
After the trailer for The Caretaker, everyone was saying that the random school teacher looked like the 11th Doctor, which I thought was just going to be a small nugget at best. I liked that it became an important part of the story. :lol
I wonder if in future The Doctor will still have the invisibility watch? If it was one-use, they probably should have had it destroyed or worn out or something.
Really liked the episode. 12th seems to developing a bit more of a wider personality than before, which is awesome.
I'm amazed that neither of you, nor any of the other Whovians here at DTF, are raving about the moment in the episode where 12 whistles Pink Floyd. :lol
So yeah, 12 is definitely my Doctor now. :tup
Aaaand I must have missed that! Did he really?
Aaaand I must have missed that! Did he really?
Incredible
I enjoyed the episode though one scene made me absolutely hate Danny.
Here's my review for both Time Heist and The Caretaker.This being the first time I've seen your avatar.... That is fucking genius! Love it :rollin
~
Two weeks ago, I decided that I would do a weekly review of each airing episode of Doctor Who Series 8. One week in, I botched it up by never bothering to write a review for Time Heist. As a result, I figured that I might as well get back to the swing of things by doing a two-part review.
With the airing of Time Heist, I am reminded that Doctor Who is a show that is all about change. Companions come and go, the Doctor regenerates and the showrunners switch around into other projects. As a result, there are that many more fans out there that can love Doctor Who, because it’s ultimately an eclectic show.
Unfortunately, change does not please everyone. Sure, nothing can please everyone, but change often frightens people. It’s understandable. After all, the new Doctors and companions tend to take awhile for the general fanbase to accept and appreciate.
I point all of this out because the changes that we have seen thus far in Series 8 have all been things that I have absolutely adored. Peter Capaldi’s weekly performances as the darker and more alien Twelfth Doctor has been exactly what I wanted from the show. I think it says a lot that my previous Top 3 Doctors before Twelve were Four, Seven and Nine.
The first half of Series 8 has been comprised of a blend of old and new. Every episode has featured a veteran Who screenwriter, all working with a brand new and very different Doctor. Everything has been either a romp or a character piece. The villains, aside from Rusty, haven’t been very interesting at all. However we’ve gotten to see a lot from Twelve already and Clara has finally been properly established as a singular and definitive character, rather than being an all-encompassing idea (“The Impossible Girl”).
I loved episodes like Into the Dalek and Listen, because they embraced the best and most interesting elements of Capaldi’s Doctor. These are bold and thought-provoking episodes. After all of the silly romps and adventures we had with the Eleventh Doctor, this was a great change for me.
Time Heist, like Robot of Sherwood, is an incredibly basic romp. Ms. Delphox and the two other members to the Doctor and Clara’s team are simple characters. There isn’t much to see about them, though I will give them credit for being better fits to the Twelfth Doctor than the Paternoster Gang were in Deep Breath.
It’s rather odd to think about how average this episode feels, because Doctor Who hasn’t ever really had a full-on heist episode before. By all accounts, this episode should feel far more exciting and original than it did.
Someone pointed out to me that a mistake the episode makes is having the Doctor trick himself and the rest of the team, rather than it being about the Doctor and the team tricking security the entire way through. The tension of the episode is inward, rather than outward. This would work brilliantly in a horror or psychological thriller episode like Listen or Into the Dalek, but it feels incredibly flat here.
I will give credit to the episode’s direction. When Peter Capaldi described this episode as being a “cross between Ocean’s Eleven and 2001,” I figured the latter comparison would be more of a reference to the incredible cinematography featured. In that regard, I completely agree with Mr. Capaldi.
Of the episodes that comprised the first half of Series 8, the three I looked most forward to were Into the Dalek, Listen and The Caretaker. While all three were episodes that had veteran Who scribes to their credit, these were scribes that had a habit of making interesting and dynamic episodes for the show, unlike the generic scripts of Robot of Sherwood and Time Heist.
The Caretaker is a tricky episode to talk about, because it tries to be to Twelve what The Lodger was for the Eleventh Doctor, while also trying to set up the plot for the second half of Series 8. As a result, it leaves me with mixed feelings like Deep Breath did at the start of the season.
Don’t get me wrong, The Caretaker has plenty of hilarious moments. Gareth Roberts comes up with some very interesting and memorable jokes that are well delivered by the cast, whereas Mark Gatiss’s decidedly average script for Robot of Sherwood was elevated entirely by great acting. There’s something that I feel is far more rewarding and memorable in seeing the Doctor whistle Pink Floyd’s “Another Brick in the Wall” than the squabbling that comprised most of Robot of Sherwood.
As with Into the Dalek and Listen, The Caretaker is very much a character piece. We finally get a lot more to see from Danny, we see Clara’s struggle in attempting to prevent her three lives (personal-human, personal-Doctor and professional) come crashing together and we get a little bit of a better understanding how nasty Twelve can get.
The core problem with this episode is Danny and Clara’s relationship. I enjoyed watching the seeds of their romance being planted in Into the Dalek and Listen, but The Caretaker breaks the rule of “Show, don’t tell” in order to move their relationship into a more ‘serious’ position. If you pay close attention to Danny’s dialogue when he speaks to Courtney’s parents and cross-examine that with the dialogue said in Into the Dalek, you’ll learn that there has been a subtle year long time-skip somewhere in-between Listen and The Caretaker.
Presumably, this was all done in order to add credit to Clara’s declaration of love to Danny during the three-way argument between them and the Doctor that occurs in the middle of the episode. While it helps a little bit, it still doesn’t change the fact that this episode is forcing us to like Danny, as well as his relationship with Clara. We’re informed that they’re in love, rather than actually getting to see it for ourselves throughout the series thus far.
As stated before, The Caretaker gives us a bigger view into the darker parts of Twelve’s personality. He’s incredibly grumpy and more than a little bit manipulative. Not to mention his previously established disliking of soldiers, which results in some pretty big tension between him and Danny. Furthermore, we see how envious and jealous the Doctor is of Danny and his relationship with Clara.
The other weak point of the episode is the Mons- er, Robot of the Week. It’s just there. Sure, this episode isn’t supposed to be about the robot, but it felt like a waste of a really good design. Maybe next time!
With the first half of Series 8 out of the way, I now turn towards the second half with a great deal of excitement and eagerness. From what I understand, the final shifts into what will really define Peter Capaldi’s era as the Doctor will be made in next week’s episode, Kill the Moon, which is pinned by the first of three new writers, Peter Harness. I am eager to see how the new blood will influence the show and Capaldi’s run, especially since it is supposed to transition into a much darker and scarier direction, which is exactly what I love about Doctor Who.
Remember fellow Whovians: Change is a part of the show.
Time Heist: 7.5 out of 10
The Caretaker: 8 out of 10
This being the first time I've seen your avatar.... That is fucking genius! Love it :rollin
I liked the episode except for two things: 1) we're suppose to believe and d'aaaaww that Clara "loves" Danny even though all interaction we've seen from them is either awkward conversations where Clara makes Danny feel bad or straight up arguments. Yeeeaaah... no. 2) Danny went from crying in front of his class and being timid and awkward to somersaulting-over-lasers and being judgmental in just over, what, 50 minutes of screentime in 6 episodes? Where's the character growth?
Also, there's no reason Clara should be either running late or just getting off from the TARDIS to their dates... it's a freaking time machine!!!
I liked the episode except for two things: 1) we're suppose to believe and d'aaaaww that Clara "loves" Danny even though all interaction we've seen from them is either awkward conversations where Clara makes Danny feel bad or straight up arguments. Yeeeaaah... no. 2) Danny went from crying in front of his class and being timid and awkward to somersaulting-over-lasers and being judgmental in just over, what, 50 minutes of screentime in 6 episodes? Where's the character growth?
Also, there's no reason Clara should be either running late or just getting off from the TARDIS to their dates... it's a freaking time machine!!!
I liked the episode except for two things: 1) we're suppose to believe and d'aaaaww that Clara "loves" Danny even though all interaction we've seen from them is either awkward conversations where Clara makes Danny feel bad or straight up arguments. Yeeeaaah... no. 2) Danny went from crying in front of his class and being timid and awkward to somersaulting-over-lasers and being judgmental in just over, what, 50 minutes of screentime in 6 episodes? Where's the character growth?
As I mentioned in my review, it seems Moffat sneaked in a subtle timeskip in The Caretaker. If you pay attention to when Danny is talking to Courtney's parents, you'll find out that he's been teaching at the school for a year now (he had just joined in Into the Dalek). Still, it breaks the "Show, don't tell" rule and makes me disappointed with how they handled him and his romance with Clara.QuoteAlso, there's no reason Clara should be either running late or just getting off from the TARDIS to their dates... it's a freaking time machine!!!
Actually, I can think of a reason: accidentally meeting her past self, which is an established no-no in the show. Still, I could imagine her trying to find ways around it.
That stuff bugs me too. Point 1 is the same thing we got with River, where they skipped showing all of the relevant stuff to make it feel believable, although Clara/Danny has still been much better in that regard, because we have seen them establish a real relationship, we just saw pretty much nothing between the awkward first date, and being apparently completely in love. We never saw that dynamic change, or really saw why Clara would like this bumbling weirdo.
And there's no reason Clara couldn't have taken some time to clean herself up before returning back to her time. The tan was understandable, since that's going to last a while, but the fish people? Girl, at least look in a mirror before going on your date! And maybe change your clothes at some point? :lol
If you pay close attention to Danny’s dialogue when he speaks to Courtney’s parents and cross-examine that with the dialogue said in Into the Dalek, you’ll learn that there has been a subtle year long time-skip somewhere in-between Listen and The Caretaker.I don't think it's forcing anything - I thought it was pretty obvious that she hadn't realised that she loved him prior to saying that, as it came out suddenly and surprised all three of them.
Presumably, this was all done in order to add credit to Clara’s declaration of love to Danny during the three-way argument between them and the Doctor that occurs in the middle of the episode. While it helps a little bit, it still doesn’t change the fact that this episode is forcing us to like Danny, as well as his relationship with Clara. We’re informed that they’re in love, rather than actually getting to see it for ourselves throughout the series thus far.
Sorry to be a parrot :p
Just finished Time Heist. I still have the same problem - as much as I enjoy watching Capaldi and I know it's only a short runtime to shove everything in ...
But these 4 people woke up in a place with no memory and told to rob a bank and they all sort of go " Yep, definitely " and get on with it immediately.
I think DW would work a lot better if it had Sherlock's run time. You could have time to write in and film all the discussions and motivations.
Capaldi is very Tom Baker though. Agreed.
Currently downloading The Caretaker.
But these 4 people woke up in a place with no memory and told to rob a bank and they all sort of go " Yep, definitely " and get on with it immediately.Well, no, they didn't. In fact they all looked very sceptical until they heard the recordings of themselves pledging to do it.
Agreed. But there still wasn't much deliberating after that or " what do we do then ? " .
I can understand where Kotowboy is coming from here, actually. Moffat apparently isn't a very big fan of doing two-parters and tries to push for as many singular episodes per season as possible.I'm not aware that it's a general preference (as Kotow mentioned before, the Sherlock running time is much longer). But I remember him saying in interviews around the mid-point in series 6 that Doctor Who had been doing regular two-parters since it came back, and they wanted to switch to individiual episodes for a while, so that each episode was a bit more standalone/more of an event.
I can understand where Kotowboy is coming from here, actually. Moffat apparently isn't a very big fan of doing two-parters and tries to push for as many singular episodes per season as possible.
I do think that played a part in why Series 7 wasn't as strong as it could have been, because the writers struggled in making the episodes paced right under such a short time span. Aside from maybe Time Heist, I think Series 8 has done a pretty good job in making the singular episode pace work to its advantage. That being said, Robot of Sherwood is easily the weakest episode so far, not because of pacing but because of how generic it felt.
I personally don't think pace had anything to do with it. S7 wasn't good stories told badly, they were just weak stories, which wouldn't have improved by drawing them out longer.
While the double episodes were usually the better ones of the RTD era, they also often felt overly drawn out for what they were. Doctor Who is a fast paced show. I prefer them just having longer episodes if needed, as they do for the specials, and the S8 opener. To me that's a good middle ground that lets them expand the episode with more of those extra moments, without the padding that their double episodes often have. And it means the episode is only as long as it needs to be, instead of being compelled to fill 2 x 45 minutes. Usually I love the idea of double episodes in scifi, but for Doctor Who, I'm pretty indifferent to it.
But I don't have a problem with the pacing of the show. I actually like the changes they've made this season to editing, and the new things they've been trying. I still think this season is on track to be the best of the modern era.
I still have caretaker to watch tonight. :)
Finally caught up tonight by watching Time Heist and The Caretaker both tonight. I really loved them. It's really cool that Robot of Sherwood is the 'worst' episode yet this series, but it's still quite good! It's a lot better than a few other 'lows' like The Rings of Akhaten or Victory of the Daleks.
Top 5 Steven Moffat scripts, go!
1. Silence in the Library / Forest of the Dead
2. The Day of the Doctor
3. Listen
4. Blink
5. The Pandorica Opens / The Big Bang
Top 5 Steven Moffat scripts, go!
1. Silence in the Library / Forest of the Dead
2. The Day of the Doctor
3. Listen
4. Blink
5. The Pandorica Opens / The Big Bang
For the RTD era, I much prefer Moffat's single episodes to his doubles. I still liked those episodes, but I don't rank them as highly as Blink or The Girl in the Fireplace, which were clear standouts for me.
1. Silence In The Library / Day Of The Doctor / ListenCheat!
2. The Impossible Astronaut / Day Of The Moon
3. The Girl In The Fireplace
4. Blink
5. Pandorica
Ban me! :P1. Silence In The Library / Day Of The Doctor / ListenCheat!
2. The Impossible Astronaut / Day Of The Moon
3. The Girl In The Fireplace
4. Blink
5. Pandorica
Ok. :neverusethis:Ban me! :P1. Silence In The Library / Day Of The Doctor / ListenCheat!
2. The Impossible Astronaut / Day Of The Moon
3. The Girl In The Fireplace
4. Blink
5. Pandorica
May I just say that I am excited as hell for the next episode? I've read three different spoiler-free reviews and nobody has anything bad to say about it. Plus, it's supposed to be dark, scary, some great characters and have an awesome moral dilemma at the heart - which is basically everything that I want from Doctor Who.I'm hearing it's quite similar to Waters of Mars but even more dark/bleak in some ways.
May I just say that I am excited as hell for the next episode? I've read three different spoiler-free reviews and nobody has anything bad to say about it. Plus, it's supposed to be dark, scary, some great characters and have an awesome moral dilemma at the heart - which is basically everything that I want from Doctor Who.
Kill The Moon is my favourite episode of the season without a doubt. That was incredible.
I know it's Doctor Who, but the science was really bad here. Again, no need to tell me what show I am talking about.
Not sure how I felt about it besides the ending. That scene between the Doctor and Clara made it worth the adventure.
Sorry, your review lost me at "masterpiece". :lol :P
I thought the Clara/Doctor stuff was excellent, and I liked how different his approach was to past Doctors to helping humanity.
But as an overall episode, there were just too many issues from the start that lost me. It wasn't a bad episode, but it had the kind of fundamental problems that also brought Robot of Sherwood down too. It was still much much better than Robot of Sherwood, due to the great character stuff, but the underlying story upon which they built those character moments wasn't all that strong.
I expect on second viewing I'll appreciate the character stuff even more, but I think the story just holds it back.
I agree with some of the stuff said above. I thought the story was an absolutely interesting concept, but had some flaws in the details through which it was presented. The acting was great, though I am really bothered by Courtney. She annoys the hell out of me. Jenna Coleman did a fantastic job with that last scene between her and the Doctor. Probably my favorite scene from the episode because of her acting.
Besides - when they were all on the beach looking up at the moon breaking apart - it looked gorgeous.
I find it really random/arbitrary which episodes people decide to complain about the science. I can't see what was any worse in this episode than in, well, most episodes. :lol
And yeah, fantastic episode!
See, I agree with the science being especially weak this episode, and it's largely for the reasons that Blob stated. However, since the episode doesn't exactly centre on that anyway, I don't really find it all that bad - though a convincing science backdrop might have elevated this one to the top spot of the season. But at the heart of this episode remains Clara and the increasingly straining relationship with the Doctor, and while the situation she was put in was engineered through a manner of scientific impossibilities, that doesn't take away from the fact that the relationship was realistically developed and extremely well portrayed by our two leads.
Plus that shot of the moon breaking up did look gorgeous.
It's not arbitrary.Well, I think people have defined some criteria for what counts as bad science and what counts as acceptable, but I find those criteria pretty arbitrary. Apart from the bit where Courtney started floating (which wasn't so much bad science as simply being unexplained), I didn't think ANYTHING in this episode was any better or worse than pretty much any other episode.
that must be the oldest joke known to man :PWell, in itself yes, but in this context it's more a reference to a key line from one of the episodes in series 1.
I really enjoyed tonight's episode, and I just have to say, Clara was looking SMOKIN'! :heart
In terms of the angry Clara thing, I was a bit surprised at first, but then they made it clear that a few weeks had passed where they hadn't seen each other. So in plot terms it all makes sense, we just didn't get to see it, which is a shame. I thought they covered it very nicely - right from the start you could tell something was up.
I really enjoyed tonight's episode, and I just have to say, Clara was looking SMOKIN'! :heart
She's looked amazing all season, and tonight was still one of her better ones. I think my favourite is still when she stepped out of the TARDIS at the start of Robot of Sherwood with the long hair and dress. :heart
I don't think so, just how much of an influence Tom Baker's performance is on Capaldi as the Doctor. He draws a LOT from that.
Speaking of the Fourth, anybody catch the jelly babies?
I wonder if Capaldi suggested he channel the 4th Doctor or whether it was a decision by the writers / creators.
Anyway - I can't help but smile every time he references T. Baker with the
" There used to be more circles on the wall " or " I miss my long scarf " and of course the jelly babies. Seems he can imitate his voice quite well too.
Speaking of the Fourth, anybody catch the jelly babies?Yeah that cracked me up. Especially because the professor guy seemed to think it was perfectly normal and selected a particularly exquisite one. :lol
I enjoyed Time Heist but couldn't get past the paradox of how it all went down (like, how did she call him if he wasn't there giving the number to her, but how did he get there without her calling?).
Having known some street graffiti artists and seen some work around where I live, I can.
You should be well used to causality loops by now with Doctor Who! :lol
RE : the end of the world.
I was surprised the 9th just let Cassandra(?) die. I thought The Doctor didn't let anyone die. Even if they were murderers ?
I'm not familiar with Chris' Doctor that much though.
RE : the end of the world.
I was surprised the 9th just let Cassandra(?) die. I thought The Doctor didn't let anyone die. Even if they were murderers ?
I'm not familiar with Chris' Doctor that much though.
About the only comment I have to make about this week's is the people who try to apply science to Doctor Who are going to flip their wigs over this one. :lol
It had the opposite effect on me: After watching it, I'm dreading what the show might become. :( I have little confidence at this point and you're not helping. :lol
Just watched In The Forest Of Night. It was okay to watch, definitely not my favourite of this series so far. Maybe even my least favourite.
The 'Next week' preview of the series finale was amazing. I probably will watch both episodes back to back though; I can't stand having to wait a week between two parts of a double episode :lol
Am I overreacting? Probably. :\
Yeah, I totally see what you're saying but him being incidental doesn't bother me. In the beginning Clara's all like "Kids, this is The Doctor. He's gonna fix everything." And that's usually the formula, but here it wasn't and that's actually kinda cool. Sure, he was the one who figured out the trees weren't dangerous but do we really think the humans would've had time to wipe out a significant enough amount of them out to nullify their effect?Yeah the principle doesn't bother me at all, like you say it's kinda cool and it's good to have a bit of variety. I think it's probably more the writing generally, and I didn't feel the story held together that well.
I've seen some reviews which say that he's completely pointless because if he hadn't been there, everything would have been fine, but people who say that weren't paying attention because he was the one who realised that the trees were good and got the humans not to stupidly kill them all. So in that moment he was pretty pivotal. But he did feel a little incidental for much of the story.
Please no. If River Song is never in the show again, it would still be too much River Song. :lol
Theoretically, it would have to be the virtual River Song, as I don't really see how else it could work with her timeline. It's been implied that Missy was the woman who gave Clara The Doctor's number in the shop, which if that's the case, I don't think it could work. Also it would seem too obvious with Missy saying she's The Doctor's girlfriend (or whatever it was).
I've seen a lot of fan theories for other characters she could possibly be, everything from River Song to The Master, but I'm hoping Missy isn't an existing character at all, and is just a new character that will be explained in the finale.
:biggrin: Right. So I plan to miss next weeks episodeSame here. Gonna do it with some friends, should be fun! :)
Then download both of the finale and watch the entire thing on one evening. Saves waiting.
So I come here as a total n00b on the show. Never watched the original show and haven't watched a single episode on the revival show. Is it necessary to have some knowledge on the original show before you start on the revival because i'm a bit overwhelmed by the amount of seasons I have to get truth on just the revival.
Oh and a word of warning - the way it starts is pretty low-budget in terms of effects, and the very first episode is quite cheesy in terms of style/direction. Those things may not bother you at all anyway, in which case great, but if you're a bit unsure, stick with it because in those regards it gets (mostly) better and better.
Oh and a word of warning - the way it starts is pretty low-budget in terms of effects, and the very first episode is quite cheesy in terms of style/direction. Those things may not bother you at all anyway, in which case great, but if you're a bit unsure, stick with it because in those regards it gets (mostly) better and better.
It depends where you choose to start. That's definitely true if he starts with Series 1 and the Ninth Doctor, but the effects and stuff are improved if he starts at Series 5 and the Eleventh Doctor. Either place would be a great place to start watching the show at.
For sure, I was basing my comments on his posts which suggested that he'd be starting from s1. Which I do think is the best place to start.Oh and a word of warning - the way it starts is pretty low-budget in terms of effects, and the very first episode is quite cheesy in terms of style/direction. Those things may not bother you at all anyway, in which case great, but if you're a bit unsure, stick with it because in those regards it gets (mostly) better and better.
It depends where you choose to start. That's definitely true if he starts with Series 1 and the Ninth Doctor, but the effects and stuff are improved if he starts at Series 5 and the Eleventh Doctor. Either place would be a great place to start watching the show at.
It' s ok guys i'm not gonna abandon the show just because the production standard wasn't fully fletched at S1, the production standard usually gets higher when the budget increase, i'm aware of that and will continue no matter what. I begin with S1 and work myself up, should be interesting given my complete lack of knowledge of anything Dr Who related.
That's a nice idea in theory, but I know I couldn't possibly have the willpower to do it. I'm gonna be right here after seeing the first episode speculating away on the finale. :lol
Will sure do! :tupIt' s ok guys i'm not gonna abandon the show just because the production standard wasn't fully fletched at S1, the production standard usually gets higher when the budget increase, i'm aware of that and will continue no matter what. I begin with S1 and work myself up, should be interesting given my complete lack of knowledge of anything Dr Who related.
Awesome! I personally started with S1 (though with episode 3, for some unfathomable reason) and it turned out fine, so don't worry. While there is plenty of iffy stuff in the RTD era, the high points are just as high as the later seasons.
Also, please report back with any reactions to episodes watched and what you thought of them.
Though I am, at the same time, quite disappointed by the fact that the BBC revealed that there would be Cybermen in this finale - that would have been such an amazing reveal that was cheapened because it was basically obvious the moment the Dark Water and its refractory properties were explained.
... Well, that was pretty damn awesome.
I don't think we've ever had such a slow burner as a finale episode 1 before, but if worked perfectly. Missy was great, Seb was hilarious, that scene at the volcano (hello Mt. Doom!)... everything just came together to a perfect episode that was so much creepier than 95% of everything that Who has ever done.
Though I am, at the same time, quite disappointed by the fact that the BBC revealed that there would be Cybermen in this finale - that would have been such an amazing reveal that was cheapened because it was basically obvious the moment the Dark Water and its refractory properties were explained.
Still, on the whole, this was AMAZING. Easily my favourite of the season, and considering the season's strength, that's not something that I'm saying lightly.
And any episode that starts off with Danny Pink being killed is fine by me. :lol It says a lot about their relationship that he couldn't figure a single thing to say to prove it was him. When he was saying "I love you", I figured he was going to recall her last words to him before he died, but nope.
And any episode that starts off with Danny Pink being killed is fine by me. :lol It says a lot about their relationship that he couldn't figure a single thing to say to prove it was him. When he was saying "I love you", I figured he was going to recall her last words to him before he died, but nope.
I don't really understand your hate for Danny, but even so, don't you think that you're being a little hard on the guy? He just died, he's talking to his still-alive girlfriend, and she keeps insisting on him not being real. Don't you think that should cut him some slack? Plus, I think it's very possible that Clara is just afraid of Danny being a fake and getting attached to him again, to have that explained, and is thus being hyper-critical - keep in mind that there is a whole portion of the story ommitted, and we don't see the things that Danny says, so I don't understand why you're immediately jumping to the conclusion that shows him in the worst possible light.
Yeah but they had no choice really, because they filmed loads of scenes of the Cybermen at St Paul's Cathedral with loads of people watching. When they do public filming like that, they have no choice but to reveal the details they can't hide.Though I am, at the same time, quite disappointed by the fact that the BBC revealed that there would be Cybermen in this finale - that would have been such an amazing reveal that was cheapened because it was basically obvious the moment the Dark Water and its refractory properties were explained.
Yeah, they revealed far too much in advance in the official trailers, so they ruined the big reveal, but it was still cool seeing all of the pieces come together, and it didn't hurt the episode one bit. Awesome episode. I can't wait for the conclusion.
Such a great episode!
SPOILERSYeah but they had no choice really, because they filmed loads of scenes of the Cybermen at St Paul's Cathedral with loads of people watching. When they do public filming like that, they have no choice but to reveal the details they can't hide.Though I am, at the same time, quite disappointed by the fact that the BBC revealed that there would be Cybermen in this finale - that would have been such an amazing reveal that was cheapened because it was basically obvious the moment the Dark Water and its refractory properties were explained.
Yeah, they revealed far too much in advance in the official trailers, so they ruined the big reveal, but it was still cool seeing all of the pieces come together, and it didn't hurt the episode one bit. Awesome episode. I can't wait for the conclusion.
The logo (small circle and big circle) looking like a Cyberman's eye was a great touch that I didn't spot at first,
:lolThe logo (small circle and big circle) looking like a Cyberman's eye was a great touch that I didn't spot at first,
I didn't notice either, until those doors closed and we saw the two logos next to each other and that *duh duh duuuuuuh* music played. Okay, maybe it wasn't the *duhduhduuh*, but it might as well have been.
Blob, I love you.
That's fantastic Blob. :D
Pardon the self pimping, but I made a Doctor Who video that I think you guys would appreciate.
Lego Doctor Who - The Time of the Doctor (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_FWP23X7JE4)
If you can help share the vid around other places on the interwebs, I'll give out free hugs or whatever.
I give it 12 out of 11 ;) :tup
Pardon the self pimping, but I made a Doctor Who video that I think you guys would appreciate.
Lego Doctor Who - The Time of the Doctor (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_FWP23X7JE4)
If you can help share the vid around other places on the interwebs, I'll give out free hugs or whatever.
I give it a 12 ou-I give it 12 out of 11 ;) :tup
Oh goddamnit! :lol
So, are we still calling Capaldi the 12th Doctor even with the inclusion of The War Doctor ?
I must watch that episode really. Just for Tom Baker if nothing else...
Wait a minute...did he just pull a chicken leg out of his ass? :lol
Pardon the self pimping, but I made a Doctor Who video that I think you guys would appreciate.lol
Lego Doctor Who - The Time of the Doctor (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_FWP23X7JE4)
If you can help share the vid around other places on the interwebs, I'll give out free hugs or whatever.
Yeah, Missy's still alive. No way Moffat would have the stones to kill off the Master.
Yeah, Missy's still alive. No way Moffat would have the stones to kill off the Master.
You can't kill off any Doctor Who villian, even if you tried. At any time in the future someone can just bring them back with a quick explanation.
I just watched the Doctor Who Extra for this episode, and they were joking that The Master would always get definitively killed, then come back the next time with the explanation "I escaped". :lol
Heck, in The Last of the Timelords, he died without regenerating, and then his body was burned, yet HE CAME BACK!
I'm pretty sure Missy wasn't killed, but instead teleported out, perhaps with an automatic failsafe for this very occurence, since she created these Cybermen. They used the same blue effect for her "death" as they did when she teleported off the plane. The Cyberman shots didn't cause that kind of damage, they made big flamey fireballs earlier in the episode.
I'm pretty sure Missy wasn't killed, but instead teleported outI don't think that's even in question - the teleport was blue (which she had at the end) and the obliteration was orange. So, yeah she obviously got away.
The ending had some lovely stuff, but felt a little awkwardly unresolved. I imagine it'll be tied up in the Christmas special though.
Did anybody notice that the intro supported Clara's cold opening claim that she was the Doctor?
Jenna was billed before Capaldi. (It's always been Doctor first, anybody else second)
and
It showed her eyes instead of Capaldi's.
So I enjoyed it a lot more on the second time viewing. I dunno, maybe I just wasn't in the mood yesterday, who knows. It's still not my favourite finale, and the setup in Dark Water is still slightly better than Death in Heaven, but it is incredibly satisfying. This might now be my favourite nuWho season/series.
1. Listen
2. Mummy on the Orient Express
3. Dark Water/Death in Heave
4. Flatline
5. Kill the Moon
6. Deep Breath
7. Into the Dalek
8. Time Heist
9. The Caretaker
10. Robot of Sherwood
11. In the Forest of the Night
So I enjoyed it a lot more on the second time viewing. I dunno, maybe I just wasn't in the mood yesterday, who knows. It's still not my favourite finale, and the setup in Dark Water is still slightly better than Death in Heaven, but it is incredibly satisfying. This might now be my favourite nuWho season/series.
1. Listen
2. Mummy on the Orient Express
3. Dark Water/Death in Heave
4. Flatline
5. Kill the Moon
6. Deep Breath
7. Into the Dalek
8. Time Heist
9. The Caretaker
10. Robot of Sherwood
11. In the Forest of the Night
I don't get why people rate Robot of Sherwood so low! I thought that was one of the best of the series, and that's coming from me - a guy who usually hates episodes set in the past. How come you don't rate it highly? :)
Blob, that was utterly fantastic. Hats off to you, sir.
I watched the whole two-part finale today. Loved it. Don't really know to say what else, though I hope Clara gets some great last moments in the Christmas Special if that really is her last episode. Michelle Gomez was a fantastic Master. Even though the ending was a bit open, I can wait till the Christmas Special. It's really cool that Nick Frost is playing Santa :lol
I'm amazed at how negative the response has been for Death in Heaven on the rest of the internet, even by Moffat hater standards (I'm not saying anyone here who dislikes the episode is a hater).From the places I've seen, it hasn't been that negative, pretty mixed overall actually and more positive than the general response has been in quite a long time. Of course, Moffat haters will spew the same stuff over and over again whatever happens which skews things, but I don't know why anyone would take that seriously. :lol The BBC (fortunately) doesn't.
I certainly thought there were flaws with the final, and it didn't quite meet my expectations, but I still thought it was a good end to the season, and Missy alone made that episode.
He is dead.Good.
PRAISE YE :hefdaddyHe is dead.Good.
Blob, your video was posted by The Nerdist. You are going big-time, buddy!
Is he supposed to be a thing? :lolWell, HE thinks so. He had his own show on BBCAmerica, and hosted their specials on the premiere of the new season of Doctor Who.
How did the host of Singled Out go to becoming practically the authority on geekdom? :lolHe is lucky, smart, and is a hard worker.
Blob, your video was posted by The Nerdist. You are going big-time, buddy!
Are they a thing? I saw it, along with a few other sites that posted it, but I don't know these sites.
The Doctor Who Facebook page posted it separately, which got me 100,000 views overnight. Downright kind of them! :hat
My badIt's all good :tup
I'm quite enjoying the show so far, except for the two episodes they were just on the TARDIS doing nothing but going crazySAY WHAT?
I recently started on the original series of Doctor Who, currently on The Screaming Jungle. I swear Susan does nothing but cry and scream. :lol
Some of them, definitely. Victoria Waterfield, gorgeous as she was, was useless and just screamed all the time. Others like Zoe Heriot and Sarah Jane Smith were awesome though.I recently started on the original series of Doctor Who, currently on The Screaming Jungle. I swear Susan does nothing but cry and scream. :lol
I found that with the majority of classic female companions; they seem to just serve as the catalyst for getting the Doctor in troublesome situations.
Some of them, definitely. Victoria Waterfield, gorgeous as she was, was useless and just screamed all the time. Others like Zoe Heriot and Sarah Jane Smith were awesome though.I recently started on the original series of Doctor Who, currently on The Screaming Jungle. I swear Susan does nothing but cry and scream. :lol
I found that with the majority of classic female companions; they seem to just serve as the catalyst for getting the Doctor in troublesome situations.
I've only skimmed the 8th Doctor's movie. What did that introduce aside from the failed idea of being half human?I can't remember exactly what now, but I remember noticing two or three things that hadn't ever happened/existed previously but which I was familiar with from the modern series.
And is it just me, or did the Doctor overreact a bit to Ian at the end of the Sensorites?The first Doctor was pretty damn grumpy sometimes. :lol
"At least they know where they're going"
"OH YEAH? WELL YOU CAN F*** RIGHT OFF"
Those two animated episodes were very cheaply done. Nasty hybrid 2D/3D facial animation, and a bunch of different animation styles that clashed horribly from shot to shot, and frantic confusing editing. So so many close ups. Still, better than having audio only.Is that one of the official BBC animations? They are fairly cheap, the point wasn't to try and fully replicate the originals, just to give an idea of what is going on visually to accompany the sound. I've watched some episodes that are audio-only with accompanying still shots, and it just doesn't work, so having ANY kind of animation is a blessing.
The Doctor laying out the guard with the shovel to the back of the head was unexpected. But rather than serious concussion or death, it simply put him to sleep.The Doctor has gone through different phases. He wasn't always the pacificst he is now. The third Doctor in particular was quite a fighter.
The Doctor ditched Susan pretty easily. Hey, I'll just leave my 15 year old grand daughter on a ruined planet in the aftermath of a Dalek attack with some creeper she just met and fell in love with where I currently have no means of returning reliably.I dunno about that, I think that scene is really nicely done. Certainly other companions leave with considerably less fanfare (though admittedly they aren't his family)
:lol What's the deal with her parents anyway?I'm not sure that's ever been addressed in the show.
It isn't. However, there is a very convoluted explanation in an extended novel featuring the Seventh Doctor called Lungbarrow. If you're interested, I can go into detail about that, but it's not canon anyway.Quote:lol What's the deal with her parents anyway?I'm not sure that's ever been addressed in the show.
Really excited for the Christmas special. :metal
The episode title for the Series 9 premiere has been revealed aswell, I'll put it in small The Magician's Apprentice
I'd be very happy for Clara to stay on a bit longer as they have a really interesting dynamic going on at the moment. Title hints at a new companion, but (a) that could be Moffat's usual trickery, and (b) even if it is a new companion, it doesn't mean Clara is departing yet.
Spoilers ahead, obviously.
While watching it, the opening scene was among the dumbest shit I've ever seen, and I had very little faith that anything in the rest of the episode could redeem it. But it actually did, for which I am very glad.
Nice to have you back on board, Lynxo! I pretty much agree with you on the overall season. This was a great one.
My only major complaint is that too many things happen to be on Earth in Clara's time. The Caretaker, Flatline, In The Forest of the Night, Dark Water / Death in Heaven, and Last Christmas. That's almost half the season. What is it about Clara and London that makes it such an alien magnet? :lolI agree to a certain excent. But I really wouldn't consider In The Forest Of The Night and Last Christmas as usual Earth-centered episodes. Both felt as outer wordly to me as the ones taking place on another planet entirely, at least to me. But yeah, in a sense I agree with you. It's always fun when the Doctor Who creators really explore the universe and their imagination.
It's not really about whether it feels other worldly (Last Christmas was a very alien dream setting), it's just the fact that coincidentally bad alien shit is happening in Clara's exact location at that exact point in time. It's beyond coincidence, and it bugged me. I still liked most of those episodes (except Forest of the Night, which can die in a fire).Ah, I get you. :) Still, couldn't the same be said about every Who episode ever? They just stumble upon trouble after trouble wherever they go. :lol
It's not really about whether it feels other worldly (Last Christmas was a very alien dream setting), it's just the fact that coincidentally bad alien shit is happening in Clara's exact location at that exact point in time. It's beyond coincidence, and it bugged me. I still liked most of those episodes (except Forest of the Night, which can die in a fire).Ah, I get you. :) Still, couldn't the same be said about every Who episode ever? They just stumble upon trouble after trouble wherever they go. :lol
That's been an issue for DW for quite a while now, I know those sorts of complaints were made during RTD's time as well - too many Earth settings.It's not really about whether it feels other worldly (Last Christmas was a very alien dream setting), it's just the fact that coincidentally bad alien shit is happening in Clara's exact location at that exact point in time. It's beyond coincidence, and it bugged me. I still liked most of those episodes (except Forest of the Night, which can die in a fire).Ah, I get you. :) Still, couldn't the same be said about every Who episode ever? They just stumble upon trouble after trouble wherever they go. :lol
Oh absolutely, but I've accepted them randomly stumbling upon trouble in random times and places, it's just when it all happens in one minutely tiny area of space and time repeatedly, it goes beyond my ability to suspend disbelief.
Haha yeah. It's worth sticking with, and it's interesting to see how the show developed over the years. The pace definitely picks up, though very gradually. I definitely found some of the early stories really dragged out unnecessarily, particularly some of Hartnell's. Even by Troughton's time they'd mostly got a little tighter.
Blob, have you reached The Time Meddler yet on your Classic Who perusal?
SPOILER ALERT - she will play Arya Stark and the Doctor will restore her to Winterfell and give her a pet Dalek.She plays Arya Stark in her current form in the show. Brutal. Merciless. She kills the Doctor. Painfully.
That didn't tell us much at all and I am still extremely excited.
Though nothing excites me as much as the extremely dope shades that the Doctor is donning.
Whenever there's a new female character that appears to possibly be someone the Doctor already knows, there's always speculation that she's any of the previous female Time Lords (Time Ladies?). Or indeed, these days the male ones too, in the case of Missy.
So main options:
- Susan
- Jenny
- River
- The Rani (highly unlikely)
Anyway trailer looked awesome. Only watched it once and it was pretty fast paced, but it definitely looked exciting. And am I right in thinking we saw both Davos and Scaro?
Hmm, will have to re-watch!Anyway trailer looked awesome. Only watched it once and it was pretty fast paced, but it definitely looked exciting. And am I right in thinking we saw both Davos and Scaro?
I think no to the former and yes to the latter.
Yeah, I didn't see Davros, but that city could have been a Dalek city, though Skaro (if it is indeed that) looked remarkable unburnt.
The planet is definitely Skaro, it just screams the 60's Dalek building designs.
In any case-- beautiful trailer. I think this has potential to be the best series of DW yet-- a confident, comfortable Doctor, a comfortable companion, an amazing cast of reoccurring characters, the return to two parters, and the more cinematic quality the trailer showcased. I am really hyped.
I cannot wait to see Capaldi rock out with a guitar and sunglasses.
From the trailers they seem to be pushing the Doctor into even more darker areas. I wonder how that is going to turn out, if true. It seems to be a little bit too much or at least getting close.
It would be a cool nugget if when Capaldi is playing guitar he is actually playing a song of the punk band that he was a member of in his youth.
I saw the title of an article on IGN that gave me this info. I cannot for the life of me understand how this isn't considered a major spoiler. I mean, it's a main character leaving the show!It's an actor leaving one job for another job, which has already been announced.
An amazing first episode! The episode had me excited from that first reveal of Davros.Yeah seriously, that was brilliant and unexpected. That was one of my favourite series openers.
An amazing first episode! The episode had me excited from that first reveal of Davros.Yeah seriously, that was brilliant and unexpected. That was one of my favourite series openers.
I thought the same at the end of the last season. Everyone was going about "did Missy survive?!" and it was bleedin' obvious.
Though seriously, does ANYBODY think that Clara and Missy are dead? I mean, it's like they weren't even trying to hide their teleportation away, yet some online reviews I've seen treat it as the big mystery.
I thought the same at the end of the last season. Everyone was going about "did Missy survive?!" and it was bleedin' obvious.
Though seriously, does ANYBODY think that Clara and Missy are dead? I mean, it's like they weren't even trying to hide their teleportation away, yet some online reviews I've seen treat it as the big mystery.
I thought the same at the end of the last season. Everyone was going about "did Missy survive?!" and it was bleedin' obvious.
Though seriously, does ANYBODY think that Clara and Missy are dead? I mean, it's like they weren't even trying to hide their teleportation away, yet some online reviews I've seen treat it as the big mystery.
The Doctor shredding Eruption while standing on a tank in the middle ages wearing sunglasses is an image that I never knew I wanted.
I thought he meant himself when he said "who created Davros?".
I just realized watching back that The Doctor actually plays part of Hey Mickey as Missy enters.
I can't figure out what he's playing as he's riding in on the tank. The riff sounds sorta familiar, but I can't place it (right after Eruption). And obviously he plays Pretty Woman when he spots Clara/Missy. Am I missing anything?
(And I'll just ignore that he's in drop D at the start, then is seemingly back in standard tuning when playing Pretty Woman, then magically has a wah pedal :blob: )
We knew The Doctor wouldn't kill Davros, but I can't believe I didn't think of killing the hands! That was a nice ending.
Very cool episode. I'd say these two episodes were better than anything series 8 had to offer.
I like Missy's weirdness, but it did get a bit much at times here though.
And since series 8 was more episodic, I'd also like to see an a bit more serialised season this year. I tend to like those the most. But they seem to be setting something up at least with the confession, so it all looks good.
Each to their own. I vastly prefer a different story every week. I cannot bear having to wait a week for a conclusion. I hate it.
Hopefully they are done with this for a while and we can get some actual fun DW episodes and stories now. 8 seasons of fan service is enough, time to bury the Daleks for a few years.
I have no idea, but I've never liked Daleks or Cyberman, although they've had decent episodes with them in the past. I'll have to rewatch the first 5 seasons again, I was just glued to the screen when I was exposed to DW for the first time a few years ago and something from then is missing for me - would be interesting to see if I feel like that because it was my first time or was there actually something special about those seasons that is lacking now.Each to their own. I vastly prefer a different story every week. I cannot bear having to wait a week for a conclusion. I hate it.
A week is nothing. I'll gladly wait a week between the two-part stories.Hopefully they are done with this for a while and we can get some actual fun DW episodes and stories now. 8 seasons of fan service is enough, time to bury the Daleks for a few years.
Don't they have to include the Daleks at least once a season? I think I heard that somewhere, or did I dream that?
I find that the best Hartnell episodes come later in his time as Doctor. The Space Museum is pretty good, but my favourites are The Time Meddler and The War Machines.
Looking forward to next week's, it looks interesting and Toby Whithouse's episodes are generally really good.
While I've tried checking out the audio-only episodes without proper video, I just couldn't sit through it, which unfortunately means a lot of skipping, which will be even more sad once I get to the second Doctor.
So there's some spin off being in the works in some school Is this the school from last season? Sounds pretty bad.
It really is a shame that most of the second doctor episodes are missing because he is my favorite. I actually watched all of the reconstructions and I will say that some of them are very hard to sit through. I do however recommend at least trying to watch the recons of both of troughtons dalek storys along with Fury from the deep.
I'll try. I already skipped The Daleks' Master Plan, and I hate skipping Dalek stories! If I don't get to them now, I'll probably come back to them later once I'm done with all of the surviving episodes. What are the odds they'll ever recover these episodes? :(
Corey Taylor from Slipknot is the voice of " The Fisher King " in the next episode along with Peter "Darth Maul" Serafinowicz !
Ughhh. Two part episode. Bollocks. ::)
I don't mind the sonic glasses for now, but I wouldn't want them to be a permanent thing.
Didn't know the whole series is going to be two-parters though.
As I understand it, even those that aren't strictly two-parters are connected. Like The Girl Who Died/The Woman Who Lived. Different writers but same director and clearly a connection.Didn't know the whole series is going to be two-parters though.
it's not all two-parters, but 8 out of 12 episodes are two-parters
I got that right up until a new Doctor appeared. How does that work?
Sorry, I didn't even think of how confusing the randomly turning into another person thing is to a new viewer. :lolI'd say it's actually pretty well signposted in the episode. Nine only briefly explains it, but he does do so.
Sorry, I didn't even think of how confusing the randomly turning into another person thing is to a new viewer. :lolI'd say it's actually pretty well signposted in the episode. Nine only briefly explains it, but he does do so.
That doesn't explain how holograms can hold objects though - but that can be explained easily in this type of show:lol Red Dwarf reference?
" yadda yadda hard light blah de blah moving on "
Blob: The War Machines is pretty great and probably my favourite First Doctor story. Shame so much of Troughton's run is missing, but what is there is fantastic.
That doesn't explain how holograms can hold objects though - but that can be explained easily in this type of show:lol Red Dwarf reference?
" yadda yadda hard light blah de blah moving on "
I love Missy! Amazing character. I still don't like Peter Capaldi, though.
Capaldi is fantastic. He has elements of almost every doctor. I also really liked Matt Smith because he modeled his performance after Patrick Troughton.
I get the paradox thingy ( BTTF fan ) - but I missed the bit about why the ghosts were summoning more ghosts if the fisher king had been dead all along ?
So, I think I figured out the whole Maisie Williams thing (if this has already been mentioned, I apologize). She is a new character, and that part in the trailer is from her second episode. Well played Moffat, well played
And Blob, you can't tell anything from a trailer, I'm sure they payoff will be better than you expect...
Didn't really dig this one, and thought it was a bit of a waste of Maisie Williams.
I also don't like what they're doing with Clara this season. I'm sure this is all related to this being her final season and is leading to whatever they have planned for her sendoff, but given that there's a vocal subset of fans who seem to hate her, it's not a good direction.I genuinely don't know what this means - what direction are they taking her? And there's a vocal subsection of fans that hates literally everything, so Moffat and co have the right approach in just ignoring that and telling the stories they want to tell.
I also felt that after the initial attention brought to his face in Deep Breathe, his revelation in this episode was a bit of a letdown. It was cool as a callback, but is that it? His face was just a reminder? Is that even something he needed to be reminded about when he regenerated?I didn't think it was a letdown at all, I thought the idea behind it was excellent and is something that the show touches on from time to time.
I also don't like what they're doing with Clara this season. I'm sure this is all related to this being her final season and is leading to whatever they have planned for her sendoff, but given that there's a vocal subset of fans who seem to hate her, it's not a good direction.I genuinely don't know what this means - what direction are they taking her? And there's a vocal subsection of fans that hates literally everything, so Moffat and co have the right approach in just ignoring that and telling the stories they want to tell.
Her character is beginning to validate some of the bitching. She's becoming smug and acting like she's as clever and important as the Doctor, stepping in for the big speeches, and speaking in place of the Doctor. It's becoming a bit grating. I still like her, but it's starting to irk me.
They're setting Clara up as a pseudo-Doctor because something very bad is going to happen as a result of her become more calloused and Doctor-ish. I'm all for it.
They're setting Clara up as a pseudo-Doctor because something very bad is going to happen as a result of her become more calloused and Doctor-ish. I'm all for it.
They're setting Clara up as a pseudo-Doctor because something very bad is going to happen as a result of her become more calloused and Doctor-ish. I'm all for it.
I get that feeling, although I'm not happy about it. :lol But it definitely seems they're setting her up for a fall, and The Doctor is going to feel bad about it.
You can watch it live using iPlayer, can't you?
A bit better than last week's episode, but still nothing on the first four. While last week's episode had a very rushed pace at the end for the sake of Ashildr's character, this week's episode had a somewhat slow pace in the first half for the sake of Ashildr's character.
"Swift" didn't seem at all bothered about dyingHow so? He was joking precisely because he knew that as long as he kept the crowd laughing he remained alive. He was definitely bothered.
and his joy at being alive afterwards was unwarranted.See above.
Then Ashildr went from not caring about anyone to suddenly caring about everyoneWell, yes, that was the whole point. The Doctor knew that she didn't really not care about anyone. It wasn't a sudden change, it was a sudden realisation.
]Well, yes, that was the whole point. The Doctor knew that she didn't really not care about anyone. It wasn't a sudden change, it was a sudden realisation.
It's nice when the threat/problem is second to the character development and interaction sometimes.Agreed, and usually I'm not all that interested in what the threat is in Doctor Who. Perfect example: Vincent and the Doctor. Absolutely rubbish monster, but superb episode, one of the very best.
I'd say Love and Monsters is the example of a bad DW episode. Forest of the Night is Citizen Kane compared to that.
I really like the Enemy of the World, definitely one of my favourite classic stories. Tomb is also great.
And yeah, Jamie is awesome and Victoria is kinda rubbish but gorgeous. Pretty soon you'll meet Zoe (think she joins in the Wheel in Space) who is best of all worlds - cute AND awesome (which isn't to say that Jamie isn't cute of course :P ).
But is she cuter than Victoria? :biggrin:IMO, yes. Though that may be influenced by the fact that she's less useless. :lol
Aren't you a fan of Classic Who, Kotow? Those used to have 4-6 parters, which meant LOADS of "to be continued"s. :P
As far as I can tell, next week's episode is completely unrelated. No "to be continued...", different writer, I think it's just meant to leave it open as part of the horror story thing, to make the little kiddies scared of sleep or popular 1950s music or something.
That's pretty huge then. I mean, like, end of humanity huge. That's what was at stake right? And the Doctor failed. And is everything alright with Clara now? She was in the Morpheus chamber as well. I'd be surprised if this was indeed the last of all of this we heard.I believe a sequel is planned, but for a future season so presumably not Clara-related.
So I just got hugely spoiled by Facebook, but apparently
Capaldi confirmed tomorrow's episode is Clara's last
Man, that was a really good episode. Looks like it's going to be an interesting run to the end of the season!
Definitely, and as is so often the case, the way things were going were part of the story arc. I never understand why people get really whiny about things like that (Clara becoming too cocky) before having the chance to see how it plays out.Man, that was a really good episode. Looks like it's going to be an interesting run to the end of the season!
Yeah, this was a big transitional episode. It's a fitting end to this season's arc of Clara being reckless like The Doctor and being overconfident. Hopefully I don't have to see too much shit from the Clara haters celebrating her being gone. :'(
Next week's episode looks good. Capaldi can definitely carry an episode on his own.Hell yeah, I love unusual things like that so am very intrigued.
Definitely, and as is so often the case, the way things were going were part of the story arc. I never understand why people get really whiny about things like that (Clara becoming too cocky) before having the chance to see how it plays out.Man, that was a really good episode. Looks like it's going to be an interesting run to the end of the season!
Yeah, this was a big transitional episode. It's a fitting end to this season's arc of Clara being reckless like The Doctor and being overconfident. Hopefully I don't have to see too much shit from the Clara haters celebrating her being gone. :'(
This was probably the best episode of Doctor Who (and consequently of any TV series) that I have ever seen. If there is anything fair in the way this sorry world spins, awards should rain on the heads of Peter Capaldi, Steven Moffat and Rachel Talaley.
I have a few questions. First of all, if he'd been there 7000 years and there were that many skulls, shouldn't there have been no room left after 2 billion years? :lol Like, I was expecting him to dive and just land on a pile of skulls.No, bone breaks down over time as well (just much slower than flesh), so after millions of years the oldest skulls would have desolved to nothing. Though after 2 billion years the water will have been largely bone matter. :lol
Just read on twitter thatYeah I did think that might be the case; initial reaction was obviously that it was the Doctor, but that would require Moffat to resurrect the whole Paul McGann half-human thing.
POSSIBLE SPOILER
" The Hybrid is ME " could refer to Ashildr.
Why your hands ?
Why not kick it or use a shovel ?
:biggrin:
Because punching your way through 20 feet of a wall harder than diamonds with your bare hands is just more badass ;)
I have a few questions. First of all, if he'd been there 7000 years and there were that many skulls, shouldn't there have been no room left after 2 billion years? :lol Like, I was expecting him to dive and just land on a pile of skulls.No, bone breaks down over time as well (just much slower than flesh), so after millions of years the oldest skulls would have desolved to nothing. Though after 2 billion years the water will have been largely bone matter. :lol
Why your hands ?
Why not kick it or use a shovel ?
:biggrin:
So now the Doctor is just an exact copy of himself.
Given how much he's been through in time and space, with the constant dematerialization and transporting he's done, he was probably a copy thousands of times over long before this episode too. And then there's regeneration.Exactly, and I think his ongoing monalogue explained that well. Every time you "teleport", you're converted into a signal and that signal is used to create a perfect copy of you. So this was just a case of repeatedly using the same signal.
The memory of 2 billion years of being tormented and killed? Yep, that would truly suck. :lol
Imagine looking up at the stars, realizing 2 billion years have gone by, and realizing you've lived and died possibly a billion times trying to escape. That's bleak enough already.
One minor niggle: why didn't the diamond wall reset (other than storytelling purposes?), was there any explanation for that?
One minor niggle: why didn't the diamond wall reset (other than storytelling purposes?), was there any explanation for that?
Good point, I don't believe there was. Maybe because it was meant to be a way out all along? I don't know.
I saw the joke coming from second one but it still cracked me up.
I don't think I have ever agreed with your opinion on Doctor Who (just an observation - as long as it's not bashing, I don't particularly care what other people think about things I like, I just found it curious. :P ).I get that a lot, on a variety of subjects. I'm used to it :). Not exactly sure why I don't like a large part of the show anymore, after that season break before the Ponds retired the show has been lacking something substantial and most of the stories haven't drawn me in like they used to and I can't quite put my finger on what's that.
Imagine looking up at the stars, realizing 2 billion years have gone by, and realizing you've lived and died possibly a billion times trying to escape. That's bleak enough already.
Got to be a hell of a lot more than 1 billion times though don't you think? He was there for 2 billion years, and each cycle felt like it might have covered a few days. So more like a few hundred billion tries.
Also, just because I've done it after every episode: rankings!
1. Heaven Sent
2. The Zygon Invasion / The Zygon Inversion
3. Face the Raven
4. Under the Lake / Before the Flood
5. The Magician's Apprentice / The Witch's Familiar
6. The Girl Who Died / The Woman Who Lived
7. Sleep No More
Peter Jackson is set to direct 3 future episodes of Doctor Who!
I also wonder if the hybrid has something to do with Missy
I also wonder if the hybrid has something to do with Missy
:tup
Gawd, Sleep No More was bad.
Gawd, Sleep No More was bad.
Did ANYONE like that episode?
Gawd, Sleep No More was bad.
Did ANYONE like that episode?
EDIT: As I thought, pretty much the entire internet says that this episode sucked because it brought Clara back and shows that nobody actually dies on the show.
Oh well, their loss. I liked it.
I'm sure some people (especially Moffat haters) will bitch that Clara actually survived somehow
Mark Gatiss, maybe?
So....
Clara isn't actually alive OR dead at the moment...Which means she could crop up again in the future...
Is she going back to Gallifrey to be put back in the trap street or will she go off on her own with Ashildr for a while first ?
EDIT: As I thought, pretty much the entire internet says that this episode sucked because it brought Clara back and shows that nobody actually dies on the show.
Oh well, their loss. I liked it.I'm sure some people (especially Moffat haters) will bitch that Clara actually survived somehow
Called it! So predictable.
It's a family show that's intended to be suitable for children. I don't expect them to do anything too brutal to the characters. The only companions of the modern era that really died were Amy and Rory, and even that was off screen by living out their lives together until they were old and died of natural causes.
Yeah the emotional stuff at the end was really nicely done, and I'm really glad Moffat went and brought River's story full circle as that definitely felt missing!
That one I'm not sure they'll do, though you never know with Moffat. It wouldn't be so much of a hanging thread though, as they didn't show how any of 1-8 or 9 got there either.
I was positively surprised by the Christmas special (which I only just got around to watching for some reason), but it would probably still rank among the bottom of the season for me, but that's mainly due to how astoundingly good the season has been.
The final third of the episode was amazing.
I actually don't like the fact that they've started tying the entire story together.
I actually don't like the fact that they've started tying the entire story together.
Why? It doesn't stop them from having random adventures, but it gives you an epic payoff at the end of the season. The earlier seasons had similar loose arcs across the season too.
Since the 9th Doctor only lasted one season (and was awful), this is possibly the first time you've had to really go through previous Doctor withdrawal. The cycle is the same every time. You miss the old Doctor at first, then end up loving the new one. Get used to it. :biggrin:
Was that post serious? :lol
Don't get too used to those nasty colorful plastic toy Daleks, because they ditch them very quickly after the unanimously negative fan reaction. They appear maybe once or twice more in S5, then I don't think they appear again.
Was that post serious? :lol
Don't get too used to those nasty colorful plastic toy Daleks, because they ditch them very quickly after the unanimously negative fan reaction. They appear maybe once or twice more in S5, then I don't think they appear again.
Not in the least. I legitimately really liked the 9th doctor (never saw any of the doctors before that).
As for the daleks, why didn't people like them? We saw several variations throughout the season. Why were those particular ones hated? I thought they looked really great.
Was that post serious? :lol
Don't get too used to those nasty colorful plastic toy Daleks, because they ditch them very quickly after the unanimously negative fan reaction. They appear maybe once or twice more in S5, then I don't think they appear again.
Not in the least. I legitimately really liked the 9th doctor (never saw any of the doctors before that).
As for the daleks, why didn't people like them? We saw several variations throughout the season. Why were those particular ones hated? I thought they looked really great.
The proportions are horrible, they're monstrously huge, and look like cheap tacky kid's toys rather than a threatening metallic cyborg death robot. They were iDaleks. The original Dalek design is so iconic, they shouldn't have tried to mess with it.
I'm 6 episodes into season 5, and I'm not really digging the new doctor or Emilia :-\
I actually don't like the fact that they've started tying the entire story together. I liked it a lot more when every episode was just a random adventure.What is this I don't even.
Each to their own I guess. Though I would say that there's nothing wrong with the series 5 Daleks, but you should start getting used to the world of Doctor Who fandom, where people react more strongly to things than is really warranted. :lol
Hell Bent made a big impression on me. I'm pretty claustrophobic as it is.
And I know he didn't remember the previous 4.5bn years ( was there a line in there that said he did remember? Surely that's not possible since each "new" Doctor was brand new and died
restarting the cycle so memories weren't transferred )... but still. Nightmarish.
There was a line he said towards the end of the episode " I remember each time ".
I wonder what that meant.
I like how when we join him - he's already many many cycles in as the water is already full of skulls.
Who knows how far he'd punched back the wall the first time we see it ?
It took him roughly 4 and a half billion years to get through 20ft of wall. The first cycle we saw was approximately 7,000 years into his stay according to The Doctor's calculations.:lol Nice.
With those numbers, I believe he had already worn through about 0.0095mm on the first loop we saw. :blob:
Zoe was super duper annoying in this first appearance. DUR DUR LOGIC DUR DUR CALCULATIONS. I get the feeling they were trying to cash in on Spock's success with her character.SHUT UP DON'T DARE DIS ZOE
The Dominators - I quite liked this one. Zoe is already much better here.Ok I'll let you off.
Zoe was super duper annoying in this first appearance. DUR DUR LOGIC DUR DUR CALCULATIONS. I get the feeling they were trying to cash in on Spock's success with her character.SHUT UP DON'T DARE DIS ZOEQuoteThe Dominators - I quite liked this one. Zoe is already much better here.Ok I'll let you off.
Literally minutes after I said "you know, I like that they're keeping Rory around. It's cool that the Doctor is travelling with a couple this time around", Rory goes and gets eaten by time and erased from all of existence.
The dual dream episode with the chirping birds was awesome.
:lol Yeah, it was only her first story she really grated on me, because they really pushed the logic thing. I'm fine with her now that she's settled into the normal companion role.:lol Yeah, I think they wanted to make it clear that she wasn't a Victoria-style "runs around looking cute but being useless" companion. She is awesome though, definitely one of my favourites ever.
I'm half way through The Mind Robber at the moment. Enjoying it a lot more than I expected to from the description.That's a pretty fun story. :tup
QuoteI'm half way through The Mind Robber at the moment. Enjoying it a lot more than I expected to from the description.That's a pretty fun story. :tup
So, no stirrings yet on the new companion? Are they keeping it under wraps, you think?
They scope of the story was bigger than they could fully showThis basically sums up classic Who. It gets made fun of a lot for it, but I think focussing on the writing and acting and not worrying too much about production values reveals a lot to enjoy and makes it kind of endearing.
They scope of the story was bigger than they could fully showThis basically sums up classic Who. It gets made fun of a lot for it, but I think focussing on the writing and acting and not worrying too much about production values reveals a lot to enjoy and makes it kind of endearing.
:(None of his episodes have been bad at all, IMO they've all be solid, but they also haven't been among the best (42 probably being the strongest). But it's a little different being a guest writer as to some extent you're asked to do something, and need to fit it in with the character and story arcs being determined by someone else. It's quite different being a showrunner.
Didn't Chibnall write some episodes already? I think he wrote 42, which was good, and something else that was pretty bad.
Moffat's episodes in the RTD era were already clear standouts, and I don't feel there's any one clear standout in the Moffat era aside from Moffat himselfFor me there are definitely non-Moffat standouts in the Moffat era, particularly the following:
What did you think about Jo? It took me a while to warm up to her. She seemed so ditzy when compared to Liz
Speaking of Sarah Jane and the 3rd Doctor, I'm really looking forward to your reaction to Invasion of the Dinosaurs. It's one of my favourite Classic Who stories ever but I very rarely see it mentioned by anyone. :\
Speaking of Sarah Jane and the 3rd Doctor, I'm really looking forward to your reaction to Invasion of the Dinosaurs. It's one of my favourite Classic Who stories ever but I very rarely see it mentioned by anyone. :\
The story itself I remember enjoying. Shame about the actual dinosaurs though. :lol
Fixed.Speaking of Sarah Jane and the 3rd Doctor, I'm really looking forward to your reaction to Invasion of the Dinosaurs. It's one of my favourite Classic Who stories ever but I very rarely see it mentioned by anyone. :\
The story itself I remember enjoying. Shame about the actual dinosaurs though. :lol
They weren't perfect, true, but that kinda comes with the territory of being made in the 70's on a show with a limited budget. :P
plan wasn't well thought out ... didn't make a whole lot of sense ... a few inconsistencies in how it was applied ... some nice ideas in there though.This sums up my feeling towards quite a lot of the Pertwee era. :lol I also think that his Doctor isn't nearly as engaging as Troughton or T. Baker - if he had been, it might have been easier to overlook some of the other issues. With the Fourth Doctor, even in the weakest stories, he was written and acted in a such a way that made him hugely enjoyable to watch, even when the story made no sense.
I'll definitely be getting back to it some time, I just needed a break. There's so much I'm excited to see coming up though, including many of the 3rd Doctor's stories, and of course I have the entire run of Tom Baker to look forward to!
Peter Davison is a good Doctor too.
Who else would have the rights ?
Invent a new type of Dalek called Kaled.
Yeah. I do love the Daleks, but there are so many other ideas to explore too.I'm pretty sure that's just made up nonsense.
I've heard repeatedly that the BBC need to use the Daleks every year by contractual obligation or something to do with the rights to the Daleks, but I don't know if that's just internet rumour.
Yeah. I do love the Daleks, but there are so many other ideas to explore too.I'm pretty sure that's just made up nonsense.
I've heard repeatedly that the BBC need to use the Daleks every year by contractual obligation or something to do with the rights to the Daleks, but I don't know if that's just internet rumour.
I hated Matt Smith and LOVED Capaldi. i think he's up there with the best Doctor's ever.
I love 10, 11 and 12, but I've never much liked 9. They tried to make him rough and edgy, but he always had that stupid goofy grin even when he was supposed to be angry. I love the rest about equally though.
I think Capaldi's Doctor has gotten even better in S9. I did like the darker side in S8, but he more so natural as the quirky uncle/grandpa thing now.
I love 10, 11 and 12, but I've never much liked 9. They tried to make him rough and edgy, but he always had that stupid goofy grin even when he was supposed to be angry. I love the rest about equally though.This exactly. I just never bought 9.
I think Capaldi's Doctor has gotten even better in S9. I did like the darker side in S8, but he more so natural as the quirky uncle/grandpa thing now.
What kind of Doctor Who fan doesn't know the numbers?
What kind of Doctor Who fan doesn't know the numbers?
To be fair the numbers thing is kind off screwy since the whole War Doctor stuff!
What kind of Doctor Who fan doesn't know the numbers?
:lol And the Daleks and the Time Lords and the entire universe came to fear the name........ Pepe.https://imgur.com/a/EwKKc :D
Agreed. Although the DW movie had some pretty big flaws, I liked the Doctor and I've really liked what I've heard of his Big Finish audio dramas. And then I loved the Night of the Doctor, so it's a huge shame that they didn't make more of that.What kind of Doctor Who fan doesn't know the numbers?
To be fair the numbers thing is kind off screwy since the whole War Doctor stuff!
Not really. It was made very clear that the War Doctor doesn't affect the numbering on the technicality of not referring to himself as The Doctor (although I don't know what exactly he did refer to himself as. Maybe The Executioner, or The Doombringer, or the Destructionator, or Stormageddon Dark Lord of All)
I would have liked to see 8 instead of the War Doctor though, finally get some good screen time, instead of just the regeneration in Night of the Doctor. Not that I had a problem with John Hurt as the War Doctor, but it would have been nice for 8 to get a big ending.
:lol:lol And the Daleks and the Time Lords and the entire universe came to fear the name........ Pepe.https://imgur.com/a/EwKKc :D
Anyone else planning on getting The Power of the Daleks when it's released. Animated version of the first Troughton story using the original audio. I'm really looking forward to this.
Finally got to see the Christmas special. I thought it was fun and harmless, and was a good vehicle for Capaldi to portray his version of the Doctor. I also liked that it addressed the last night (24 years) of River Song. However, I don't like that they used Matt Lucas as Nardole to do it. I find the actor unnerving in every role I've seen him in, and he has never once played a character that is likable, including in Doctor Who. Hopefully he won't continue into the new season.
I liked the fat guy. He looked adorable. I didn't get why they brought River Song into this, I thought this was about losing Clara. The episode felt pointless, though.It wasn't about Clara at all, it was about the death of River Song in the aftermath of "The Husbands of River Song", last year's Christmas special, which was the last episode of Doctor Who that aired.
This is what happens when you have an entire year between episodes. It took time for it to register with me that it was about River Song, especially as I try to block River Song out of my mind. :lolI had just rewatched the last episode recently, so it was fresh in my mind. I thought about it as soon as it said "24 years later..." or whatever.
Third Doctor in a row to do 3 seasons in 4 years. I'll miss Capaldi a lot, but I'm also glad that Capaldi will finish his run with Moffat, and the next guy will have a fresh start, as was the case with Moffat/Smith. I hope S10 is as strong as S8/9 and that Capaldi gets a solid conclusion.Same here.
Third Doctor in a row to do 3 seasons in 4 years. I'll miss Capaldi a lot, but I'm also glad that Capaldi will finish his run with Moffat, and the next guy will have a fresh start, as was the case with Moffat/Smith. I hope S10 is as strong as S8/9 and that Capaldi gets a solid conclusion.
Graham Norton :biggrin:
They've done multi-Doctor stories before, but have they ever done a multi-Master one before? I haven't seen enough of the classic series.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/doctorwho/entries/9ecdaaa1-10e1-45a7-a266-bdd7a1adcdf2
Why is BBC America showing a canceled series? Is it just something to fill the time slot until they get something new or are they hoping to revive it for the American audience
I don't think there's any trick, Doctor Who is usually quite up front about revealing these things themselves, unless there's a specific reason to keep the surprise. Apparently he's appearing as The Master in the same episode as Missy, so I think we're just going to get a cool multi Master story, that may act as closure for Simm to regenerate into Missy, since that was never explained.
Whoa, now that I think about it, Simm's Master was stuck at the end of the time war. Capaldi's first on screen appearance was technically in Day of the Doctor helping the other Doctors end the time war. Maybe we're finally going to see how Capaldi got involved in Day of the Doctor (which I've been waiting for since day 1), and see how Simm escaped the time war and became Missy. Kill two birds with one stone in a big send off for Capaldi. The brief shot of Simm in the trailer definitely appears to be the time war, so it makes sense. The last we saw of Missy, she was aligned with the Daleks. She could also be involved in the time war.
Also, I don't know if a new Doctor has even been cast yet, but I get the feeling we won't see Capaldi's full regeneration until the Christmas special. I think the 12th episode will end with the regeneration process just starting.
I don't put any stock in that at this point. Kris Marshall has been one of the rumoured names since the start, so it obviously wouldn't surprise me one bit, but I'm not taking it as anything more than rumour until anything is confirmed either.
I don't think there's any trick, Doctor Who is usually quite up front about revealing these things themselves, unless there's a specific reason to keep the surprise. Apparently he's appearing as The Master in the same episode as Missy, so I think we're just going to get a cool multi Master story, that may act as closure for Simm to regenerate into Missy, since that was never explained.My timey-wimey theory (which I'm sure others have suggested but I haven't seen it) is that it's Missy who kills the Master in order for him to regenerate into Missy. There would be something so perfectly Moffat about that. :lol
Whoa, now that I think about it, Simm's Master was stuck at the end of the time war. Capaldi's first on screen appearance was technically in Day of the Doctor helping the other Doctors end the time war. Maybe we're finally going to see how Capaldi got involved in Day of the Doctor (which I've been waiting for since day 1), and see how Simm escaped the time war and became Missy. Kill two birds with one stone in a big send off for Capaldi. The brief shot of Simm in the trailer definitely appears to be the time war, so it makes sense. The last we saw of Missy, she was aligned with the Daleks. She could also be involved in the time war.
Also, I don't know if a new Doctor has even been cast yet, but I get the feeling we won't see Capaldi's full regeneration until the Christmas special. I think the 12th episode will end with the regeneration process just starting.
Anyway very strong season opener, I like Bill a lot so far! And it nicely set up some story arc stuff with the vault without going too overboard on it.
The voice from the puddle sounded Ice Warrior-y to meI dunno, not enough of a horrible lisp.
. The museum they used for the location was beautiful. The whole episode looked amazing.
took a long time to get going then ended with a quick way to easy resolution.That can be said about lots of episodes in the last few seasons I think, which to me is part of why I've enjoyed it less.
It's a shame there weren't four knocks on the door at the end, amirite? :neverusethis:
They killed a kid last week, so I'll call it even. :lol
I'm gonna have to wait til this series is on Netflix. Every other season since Chris Ecclestone is so ...nope, they haven't been in over a year. They are on amazon prime though, I believe all nine season
The first two episodes of the Monk trilogy have been fine, but a little disjointed so far. I'm not really seeing the need for the Monks 'simulation' earth, hopefully we will get a good payoff next week.
Agree with all of this, I loved the whole simulation episode, and it set up the second one perfectly. These slightly longer story arcs (2-3 episodes, or longer) are where I think DW is normally at its best, barring the occasional standout standalone episode (like Blink or Listen).The first two episodes of the Monk trilogy have been fine, but a little disjointed so far. I'm not really seeing the need for the Monks 'simulation' earth, hopefully we will get a good payoff next week.
The simulation was so that they knew the best time and location on Earth to conquer it by consent (which for a yet unknown reason is apparently something they needed), and presumably also so they know the best strategy to rule the planet. I'm sure we'll find out more about all of that in the next episode now that they're ruling Earth.
It was a little coincidental that the simulation date that The Doctor discovered the Monks and their plan happened to align with the real world time of the end of the world though, and I'm sure it wasn't necessary for them to do it that way, but nonetheless I thought it made for really good standalone plots for the individual episodes.
I also liked that the factor that they didn't account for that allowed The Doctor to save the planet (ignoring Bill's fuckup to save The Doctor) was their own presence. Their simulations accounted for The Doctor and they still calculated they'd conquer the planet, but The Doctor was only able to track down the source of the plague because the Monks were there on Earth monitoring it in reality. Or maybe their simulation did factor in all of that, since their plan did succeed.
The first two episodes of the Monk trilogy have been fine, but a little disjointed so far. I'm not really seeing the need for the Monks 'simulation' earth, hopefully we will get a good payoff next week.
The simulation was so that they knew the best time and location on Earth to conquer it by consent (which for a yet unknown reason is apparently something they needed), and presumably also so they know the best strategy to rule the planet. I'm sure we'll find out more about all of that in the next episode now that they're ruling Earth.
It was a little coincidental that the simulation date that The Doctor discovered the Monks and their plan happened to align with the real world time of the end of the world though, and I'm sure it wasn't necessary for them to do it that way, but nonetheless I thought it made for really good standalone plots for the individual episodes.
I also liked that the factor that they didn't account for that allowed The Doctor to save the planet (ignoring Bill's fuckup to save The Doctor) was their own presence. Their simulations accounted for The Doctor and they still calculated they'd conquer the planet, but The Doctor was only able to track down the source of the plague because the Monks were there on Earth monitoring it in reality. Or maybe their simulation did factor in all of that, since their plan did succeed.
Agree with all of this, I loved the whole simulation episode, and it set up the second one perfectly. These slightly longer story arcs (2-3 episodes, or longer) are where I think DW is normally at its best, barring the occasional standout standalone episode (like Blink or Listen).The first two episodes of the Monk trilogy have been fine, but a little disjointed so far. I'm not really seeing the need for the Monks 'simulation' earth, hopefully we will get a good payoff next week.
The simulation was so that they knew the best time and location on Earth to conquer it by consent (which for a yet unknown reason is apparently something they needed), and presumably also so they know the best strategy to rule the planet. I'm sure we'll find out more about all of that in the next episode now that they're ruling Earth.
It was a little coincidental that the simulation date that The Doctor discovered the Monks and their plan happened to align with the real world time of the end of the world though, and I'm sure it wasn't necessary for them to do it that way, but nonetheless I thought it made for really good standalone plots for the individual episodes.
I also liked that the factor that they didn't account for that allowed The Doctor to save the planet (ignoring Bill's fuckup to save The Doctor) was their own presence. Their simulations accounted for The Doctor and they still calculated they'd conquer the planet, but The Doctor was only able to track down the source of the plague because the Monks were there on Earth monitoring it in reality. Or maybe their simulation did factor in all of that, since their plan did succeed.
Kris Marshall was the main rumour last time, and possibly the time before as well.
I still think this season is slightly above 8, but it ain't got shit on 9.
I still think this season is slightly above 8, but it ain't got shit on 9.
8 had some major stinkers, but it also had some of my favourite regular episodes, like Listen, Flatline and Time Heist, and imo got off to a stronger start.
This season is more consistent, and it does beat S8 in ways, but S8's high points make up for that for me. I agree there's not a huge margin between them, but it feels like a bit of a letdown for the sendoff of both Capaldi and Moffat.
And I agree S9 slays them. Possibly the best season of the modern series.
I thought Mummy On The Orient Express was great, although I preferred the aforementioned eps more, and I don't rank it as highly.
S7 was very patchy, but damn, the end of that season made up for all of it. S5 was probably my favourite season until S9, and S8 is very close too.
I just thought it was a bit lazy going back to the Cybermen again, like almost a repeat from 2 seasons ago, except with Danny being replaced by Bill. Would have kind of liked instead to know what Missy was planning with the Daleks
So, Jenna's appearing in the Christmas special. I guess they're going to do a repeat of what Karen did for Matt's regen
Something that's been bothering me with the last episode. Why can't Missy try to regenerate? Like, what would happen? It's been my understanding that Time Lords can take a whole lot of damage. I assume all of them are created equally and the Doctor isn't more special
I don't even have an idea of who the rumoured candidates were.https://www.digitalspy.com/tv/cult/feature/g24518/everyone-rumoured-to-play-new-doctor-who/ :P
I just hate how Chinball kept saying he was aiming to keep the Doctor male, unless this was a last minute kind of thing. How long ago was she cast?First rule of being Dr Who showrunner: lie about everything.
Even better. I don't recall that reference, so I'll be sure to take notice when I get to it in my rewatch.The reference in the Doctor's Wife was when he talked about the Corsair (when they found the memory cubes or whatever they were called) and he mentioned that at least a couple of the Corsair's incarnations had been female.
Still, I don't feel the show was quite ready for it when they cast Capaldi. This time, it almost felt inevitable. We've had Michelle Gomez's fantastic portrayal of Missy over the past 3 series, we saw a white male regenerate into a black female in Hell Bent, and The Doctor's conversation with Bill in World Enough and Time felt like it was bringing it all together ready for this to eventuate. I don't know if this was their plan all along, or whether it just came together that way this time, but I think they've done a good job setting it up, and I'm confident in their casting choice.
So I'm definitely excited and interested to see what S11 brings.
I'm much more concerned with how they write the character because of the gender, rather than the gender itself. Doctor Who since it's return (and sometimes in the old show) has the habit of making the female characters the more strong, sensible ones, more streetwise - often the morale compass. The males (and certainly including the Doctors) are often socially inept, aloof, geeky and childish. If this continues we will have a perfect female Doctor and a comedy sidekick male.For me that dynamic has never been a female/male thing but a human/2000-year-old-alien thing. There's definitely scope to do something a bit different with the show and give it an exciting refresh now, but I don't see them making the Doctor any less alien and the companions any less human (whether they're male or female).
To make Jodie work as the Doctor they have to be willing to give her flaws.
As usual, it will probably take a few episodes before the character is fully formed, and we've got a new showrunner on top of that, so I'm not going to be too critical right out of the gate.Absolutely. If only Twitter was similarly rational.
For me that dynamic has never been a female/male thing but a human/2000-year-old-alien thing. There's definitely scope to do something a bit different with the show and give it an exciting refresh now, but I don't see them making the Doctor any less alien and the companions any less human (whether they're male or female).
I'm not sure I agree with your generalisation. Rose and Amy were incredibly impulsive and not very sensible. I'd say Rory was more level-headed than Amy (albeit a classic bumbling Englishman). Donna was a total nutter. Apart from the Doctor, I don't see any particular trend in male and female characters.
For me that dynamic has never been a female/male thing but a human/2000-year-old-alien thing. There's definitely scope to do something a bit different with the show and give it an exciting refresh now, but I don't see them making the Doctor any less alien and the companions any less human (whether they're male or female).
It's more the way the show has been written. The male characters are often childish buffoons with poor social skills (The Doctor, Rory, Micky etc) and the women have generally been written as more street(or space)wise, sensible and strong. As a dynamic it works pretty well, but if you reverse it and have a strong, sensible Doctor there isn't much need for a companion, unless they go for the male comedy sidekick.
It's not really a complaint as such. I just hope they are able to make Jodie's Doctor still have the right quirky traits and a slightly skewed moral compass, rather than she's female therefore we can't possibly give her any negative silliness that a lot of the assistants suffered.
Back to this point, I completely forgot that Moffat introduced the possibility of gender change in his very first scene as showrunner, when the newly regenerated Matt Smith initially thought he was female because he had long hair. So it will have been a full 8 years since the idea was first introduced to the Doctor actually becoming female.Even better. I don't recall that reference, so I'll be sure to take notice when I get to it in my rewatch.The reference in the Doctor's Wife was when he talked about the Corsair (when they found the memory cubes or whatever they were called) and he mentioned that at least a couple of the Corsair's incarnations had been female.
Still, I don't feel the show was quite ready for it when they cast Capaldi. This time, it almost felt inevitable. We've had Michelle Gomez's fantastic portrayal of Missy over the past 3 series, we saw a white male regenerate into a black female in Hell Bent, and The Doctor's conversation with Bill in World Enough and Time felt like it was bringing it all together ready for this to eventuate. I don't know if this was their plan all along, or whether it just came together that way this time, but I think they've done a good job setting it up, and I'm confident in their casting choice.
So I'm definitely excited and interested to see what S11 brings.
We've also seen that time lords can change skin colour since that same season, when River Song regenerated.
But when are they really going to break barriers and make The Doctor a ginger? :neverusethis:(https://0.tqn.com/d/menshair/1/S/E/O/-/-/Curly-Red-Afro-Man.jpg)
I'm just hoping Capaldi and Moffat get a great final episode.Obviously I hope it's good, but I'm not expecting some huge grand finale like RTD had. I seem to remember reading something about the end of S10 being the big dramatic finale for Capaldi and Moffat with the Christmas special being more a sort of coda. I guess we'll see.
Have you seen the Youtube video of this? A lot of your casting is similar. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bCv5o7n_mtk&t=6s
So, the new companions have been announced, and it looks like we've got three companions for the first time in the modern series.Pretty much - they've often had multiple companions (Amy/Rory, Bill/Nardole) and sometimes they've had three at once but never for an extended run. It's not clear from the announcements if these are all companions in the traditional sense or if it's more a set of recurring characters.
So, the new companions have been announced, and it looks like we've got three companions for the first time in the modern series.Pretty much - they've often had multiple companions (Amy/Rory, Bill/Nardole) and sometimes they've had three at once but never for an extended run. It's not clear from the announcements if these are all companions in the traditional sense or if it's more a set of recurring characters.
Sounds great anyway, the Doctor + 1 companion dynamic can get very samey.
I haven't seen Broadchurch at all, so I only have his Doctor Who episodes to judge from. I still really like The Power of Three, and Dinosaurs on a Spaceship was fun, but the rest of his episodes were really weak imo.But then some people who loved Moffat's standalones under RTD have hated his tenure as showrunner (completely unfairly) so just goes to show how different the two roles are.
Hopefully Chibnall will work better as showrunner than he did as a regular writer, but Moffat's episodes were always clear standouts even during the RTD era.
I haven't seen Broadchurch at all, so I only have his Doctor Who episodes to judge from. I still really like The Power of Three, and Dinosaurs on a Spaceship was fun, but the rest of his episodes were really weak imo.But then some people who loved Moffat's standalones under RTD have hated his tenure as showrunner (completely unfairly) so just goes to show how different the two roles are.
Hopefully Chibnall will work better as showrunner than he did as a regular writer, but Moffat's episodes were always clear standouts even during the RTD era.
I generally agree with that too, although I think S8/9 are arguably the best of the modern series (5 and 6 were great too). S10 feels like Moffat was Who'd out though, I don't know. I hope Capaldi can still go out with a bang.
What do you expect them to do with her hair? That's how her hair is.
It was a perfect send off. Just a long love letter to Capaldi and his Doctor. It didn't need a crazy plot. Just a light, easy episode. I'm going to miss him so much. I just loved his Doctor.
Of course, I see people online already ripping Moffat to shreds for either a boring episode or destroying the history of Who or whatever else they can think of. People are slamming him for the new Doctor crashing the Tardis because it's a woman. If they knew anything then they would know he was not involved in anything after the regeneration. Everything after the change is written by the incoming showrunner which is Chibnall. That won't stop the Moffat haters club.
It was a perfect send off. Just a long love letter to Capaldi and his Doctor. It didn't need a crazy plot. Just a light, easy episode. I'm going to miss him so much. I just loved his Doctor.
Of course, I see people online already ripping Moffat to shreds for either a boring episode or destroying the history of Who or whatever else they can think of. People are slamming him for the new Doctor crashing the Tardis because it's a woman. If they knew anything then they would know he was not involved in anything after the regeneration. Everything after the change is written by the incoming showrunner which is Chibnall. That won't stop the Moffat haters club.
I jokingly thought about whether people would mention a female crashing the TARDIS.
Which is totally forgetting that the first thing 11 did after regeneration was crash the TARDIS (for the exact same reason 13 crashed it, because the regeneration damaged the TARDIS). The first thing 12 did after generating is forget how to even pilot the TARDIS and crash it. 3 in a row. I hope they don't feel like they have to walk on eggshells with everything 13 does for fear of being viewed as sexist or whatever. The Doctor has always been a flawed person.
Now that I have had some time to digest the episode, I do have one major criticism. If the Doctor is supposed to originally be from the future, how does he not know what a browser history. I know they wanted to show how progressive the Doctor has become since being the First, but when you take in the larger context, it doesn't make sense.
Yes, and why does an alien being from an insanely advanced culture where people can cross-gender regenerate reflect 1960s human views on gender equality. This show was never really about making sense to me, but it’s fun so it’s okay.
I've now seen two Doctors regenerate this week. First was of course the 12th Doctor, and I just saw Pertwee's regeneration into Tom Baker. Pertwee's final season seemed much stronger than previous seasons to me, although his final story was a bit weak, as was his death. But it's the first time regeneration is mentioned by name IIRC, so that still makes it notable.
I've only watched the first episode with Tom Baker so far, but he's stolen every scene he's in. From what little I'd seen in the past, I knew I'd like him, but I can already see why he's the favourite of the original series. He's so wacky and fun, and I look forward to finally seeing his era.
(because British people want to watch dancing instead)Pretty much perfect summary. :lol
I only saw the first few minutes (the game was on in another room). And in the opening scenes I felt like she was channeling Tennant. Not in a bad way. In a way I thought it was brilliant to weave a sense of the familiar into such an iconic moment in Dr Who history.
Actually the theme was the only thing I wasn't so keen on. I liked that it's the closest they've done to the classic sound in terms of style, but I'm not a fan of also going with 60s BBC production values for it, especially when the show itself feels very refreshed.
Oh and I enjoyed the cliffhanger. Sounds like maybe they're doing that Classic Who thing of basically unconnected stories, but with regular cliffhangers to set up the next one.
we didn't even get an explanation of why he wanted to change history.What? He literally explicitly said why he was doing it - he told Ryan he wanted "you people" back in their place.
A murderous alien traveled back in time to "fix" history. On earth. In the US only. He's such a racist that this is the only thing he cares about after being released from a prison for very dangerous people. Human history must be a very popular subject in intergalactic schools I guess.we didn't even get an explanation of why he wanted to change history.What? He literally explicitly said why he was doing it - he told Ryan he wanted "you people" back in their place.
Basically he's a massive racist from the future who hates that Rosa's action spawned a civil rights movement that ended up leading to equality, and wanted to undo it.
Again, what? He's not an alien and he's not doing it because he wants to only change this one incident. He's a human from the future who clearly hates racial equality, and as Blob said in his post, has determined that Rosa's action was the crucial turning point when it comes to civil rights. By stopping that from happening, everything else that spawns from it in the future doesn't happen.A murderous alien traveled back in time to "fix" history. On earth. In the US only. He's such a racist that this is the only thing he cares about after being released from a prison for very dangerous people. Human history must be a very popular subject in intergalactic schools I guess.we didn't even get an explanation of why he wanted to change history.What? He literally explicitly said why he was doing it - he told Ryan he wanted "you people" back in their place.
Basically he's a massive racist from the future who hates that Rosa's action spawned a civil rights movement that ended up leading to equality, and wanted to undo it.
That is worse than having no motivation, which is why I didn't take it at face value. Maybe I am not supposed to give the benefit of the doubt to the current writing team then.
Oh, one more thing. So, I was thinking that they always say that history is very sensitive in Who and other time travel shows. But then they always portray changing the future as something that's OK or at most not something to be worried about. But when you time travel, your current future is also the past, depending on where you are so unless you're at the end of time, isn't it just as bad to mess with it?The way that Doctor Who and a lot of other sci-fi shows/movies/books/games address this is the concept that there are hard and soft events. Some things absolutely have to happen for the timeline to function - if they are changed then the ramifications are enormous and could even threaten the fabric of space-time. Other events are soft and flexible and can be changed, within reason, without destroying the universe.
Paging Blob and other time travel enthusiasts.
I kind of assumed he came from the time that Captain Jack originally came from as he had the same time travel device.Certainly possible. He was also locked up in the Stormcage, which was where River Song was imprisoned.
Peter Capaldi was my fave of the RTD Reboot era. I didn't see his final series or any of Jodie as I dont have a TV and you have to pay to watch iPlayer on catch up
and just never bothered to seek it out elsewhere...
the show clearly got worse once Russel T Davies left.
Agreed.the show clearly got worse once Russel T Davies left.
Disagree. Moffat as showrunner, Smith as the Doctor and Amy + Rory as companions was the best period for me (that's seasons 5 & 6).
I have no idea how the show lost so many viewers during his run.
The rating were sliding during the end of the Matt Smith era. I think the reason is simply this was the time streaming TV really started to take off (in the UK at least) - and TV show quality ramped up with massive budget - all of a sudden Doctor Who no longer seemed top tier TV.I think that's probably right. Doctor Who has always been a show with production values that have been good for its budget, and it's got away with it because most shows even at the higher-budget end still didn't look that great. But suddenly once literally millions of dollars an episode were being invested and shows looked comparable with Hollywood movies, a gulf in quality opened up.
So, looks like Doctor Who is coming out with an all star monster episode called Flux on Halloween, featuring new baddies called RavagesActually Flux is the name of series 13. It's a single 6-parter story. But yes the first episode airs on Halloween, which is quite fun.
Not a doctor who guy but he was fantastic in Sex Ed.
Hopefully the writing they give him is better, Whitaker was wasted on what they came up with.
Not a doctor who guy but he was fantastic in Sex Ed.
Surprises me. I'd have thought it'd be your thing.
Not a doctor who guy but he was fantastic in Sex Ed.
Surprises me. I'd have thought it'd be your thing.
I’m a completionist. So if I start a show, I have to watch all of it. No way I can do that with Dr. Who so Ive just avoided it.
Not a doctor who guy but he was fantastic in Sex Ed.
Surprises me. I'd have thought it'd be your thing.
I’m a completionist. So if I start a show, I have to watch all of it. No way I can do that with Dr. Who so Ive just avoided it.
The easy thing to do is to treat the old and new versions as separate shows and start with Chris Eccleston when it was brought back in 2006(?). It was written as a fresh start so new fans could enjoy it without prior lore of the original run.
Not a doctor who guy but he was fantastic in Sex Ed.
Surprises me. I'd have thought it'd be your thing.
I’m a completionist. So if I start a show, I have to watch all of it. No way I can do that with Dr. Who so Ive just avoided it.
The easy thing to do is to treat the old and new versions as separate shows and start with Chris Eccleston when it was brought back in 2006(?). It was written as a fresh start so new fans could enjoy it without prior lore of the original run.
Nope haha. Sadly my brain doesn't work that way. Plus, even if I did do that, that's 16 years of a show? I ain't got that time. I have Star Trek to watch!
Not a doctor who guy but he was fantastic in Sex Ed.
Surprises me. I'd have thought it'd be your thing.
I’m a completionist. So if I start a show, I have to watch all of it. No way I can do that with Dr. Who so Ive just avoided it.
The easy thing to do is to treat the old and new versions as separate shows and start with Chris Eccleston when it was brought back in 2006(?). It was written as a fresh start so new fans could enjoy it without prior lore of the original run.
Nope haha. Sadly my brain doesn't work that way. Plus, even if I did do that, that's 16 years of a show? I ain't got that time. I have Star Trek to watch!
It's a British show - we don't produce 22 episodes a year!
It looks like old seasons will not be on Disney+. Boo.
Seems like to catch up I have to buy them on Amazon.
It looks like old seasons will not be on Disney+. Boo.
Seems like to catch up I have to buy them on Amazon.
It looks like old seasons will not be on Disney+. Boo.
Seems like to catch up I have to buy them on Amazon.
I've been doing a run through from Season 1 with Eccleston on HBO. I think I would rank these modern day doctors/series:
Tennant - I think I most prefer companion Donna episodes
Smith - the entire River Song stuff is great, huge story arcs and touching moments
Eccleston - solid story arc, Rose is great
Whittaker - She's very likable, but the show is even more preachy and repetitive. Oh another Dalek or Cybermen episode.... again....
Capaldi - So hard to watch. Once the Impossible Girl stuff was over with Clara, it was a mess
Despite the writing flaws, Capaldi himself was often a joy to watch. His demeanor felt more like a classic doctor than anyone else, and his performance and interaction with Alex Kingston in the final River Song episode was absolutely incredible.
Despite the writing flaws, Capaldi himself was often a joy to watch. His demeanor felt more like a classic doctor than anyone else, and his performance and interaction with Alex Kingston in the final River Song episode was absolutely incredible.
I warmed up to Capaldi as time went on. It has been said that Capaldi and Moffat had discussed Capaldi's Doctor being more of a grumpy Doctor. So, the writers wrote him that way, but then Capaldi added extra grumpiness on top of that. So, they ended up with a more cantankerous personality than intended. The edges get filed off as he goes along.
I know that this new stuff is going to be on Disney+, but isn't the old stuff still on MAX? Not the really old stuff, but from Eccleston - on.I checked last night. The answer is yes, it's still on MAX.
Despite the writing flaws, Capaldi himself was often a joy to watch. His demeanor felt more like a classic doctor than anyone else, and his performance and interaction with Alex Kingston in the final River Song episode was absolutely incredible.
I warmed up to Capaldi as time went on. It has been said that Capaldi and Moffat had discussed Capaldi's Doctor being more of a grumpy Doctor. So, the writers wrote him that way, but then Capaldi added extra grumpiness on top of that. So, they ended up with a more cantankerous personality than intended. The edges get filed off as he goes along.
I don’t know, riding in on a tank, playing a guitar, while wearing shades seemed exactly the opposite of cantankerous to me
Wow, so no spoilers, but was not expecting what we got in The Giggle. Davies really has brought the camp back to the show. Very interested in the future now.