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Dream Theater => Dream Theater => Topic started by: Moor on May 13, 2014, 05:31:29 AM

Title: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: Moor on May 13, 2014, 05:31:29 AM
https://www.blabbermouth.net/news/mike-portnoy-weighs-in-on-queensryche-settlement-calls-it-the-right-outcome/

What about the fans MP that followed you and DT throughout this suite? Did you think of htem before making such a statement? However... your thoughts?
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: RodrigoAltaf on May 13, 2014, 06:38:27 AM
 It seems the majority is on autopilot on the anti-Portnoy campaign here on the forum. I´m not one of them. He´s just stating his opinion about QR´s situation, and I do agree he should have made a point of them not being able to perform certain songs which were his idea 100%. I do believe the Octavarium concept was his from start to finish as well?
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: Sir Walrus Cauliflower on May 13, 2014, 06:41:27 AM
It was his idea to do the 12SS, but the AA steps were created by AA, not MP. I don't see him saying he wants the rights to the 12SS now, he just says he sort of wishes he would have, and that he understands why Geoff wanted the rights to Operation Mindcrime. Although at least when DT plays 12SS songs, they sound good, unlike ACoS cover attempts he does with other people. (ACoS is kind of about him too, but still).
I don't think he should have the sole rights to it, but he can play it whever he wants if he decides and finds some band members that are capable.
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: Sir Walrus Cauliflower on May 13, 2014, 06:56:25 AM
It seems the majority is on autopilot on the anti-Portnoy campaign here on the forum. I´m not one of them. He´s just stating his opinion about QR´s situation, and I do agree he should have made a point of them not being able to perform certain songs which were his idea 100%. I do believe the Octavarium concept was his from start to finish as well?

The whole theme of the full circle, 5 and 8 was his idea IIRC, but the album would be just fine without that theme connecting 8VM to the rest of the songs on it. That's just a cool addition, it's not like PA or SS would have suffered too much without those themes. I'm not on the anti-Portnoy campaign, but I think he and the band have both moved on at this point (I hope), and going back through legal processes and interfering with each other's careers and ability to perform songs would be stupid. He wasn't kicked out, he left. not to mention he still plays DT stuff occasionally.
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: 425 on May 13, 2014, 07:03:13 AM
I don't see anything wrong with what Mike said, given the context. And honestly I get why he wouldn't want them to do the whole thing without him. He must know they're playing The Shattered Fortress now and played The Root of All Evil on the ADTOE tour, right? If he does, it's pretty clear cut that he objects to playing the entire thing, not just one or two of the songs. Besides, I don't think Dream Theater is really itching to play the entire 12SS right now, are they?
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: Sir Walrus Cauliflower on May 13, 2014, 07:17:25 AM
I don't see anything wrong with what Mike said, given the context. And honestly I get why he wouldn't want them to do the whole thing without him.

I think you're right about this. He even said "If Dream Theater was to go out there and perform my five-song concept thing..." It seems to be them playing through the whole story he created is what would bother him, not individual songs.
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: mikeyd23 on May 13, 2014, 07:21:58 AM
I don't think MP really said anything wrong here, but didn't he forfeit the right to the songs when he quit the band?
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: son_ov_hades on May 13, 2014, 07:50:36 AM
I think the idea of a band not being legally allowed their songs is ridiculous. Pink Floyd should be able to play The Wall, Queensryche should be able to play Operation: Mindcrime and Dream Theater should be able to play the 12 Step Suite. One the other hand I believe that Roger Waters, Geoff Tate, and Mike Portnoy should play whatever they want from the time they were in their previous bands as well.
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: Sir Walrus Cauliflower on May 13, 2014, 07:55:08 AM
I think the idea of a band not being legally allowed their songs is ridiculous. Pink Floyd should be able to play The Wall, Queensryche should be able to play Operation: Mindcrime and Dream Theater should be able to play the 12 Step Suite. One the other hand I believe that Roger Waters, Geoff Tate, and Mike Portnoy should play whatever they want from the time they were in their previous bands as well.

I think they all should be ABLE to, but playing the 12SS (altogether, not individual songs) should just be left alone out of respect, not because of legal bindings.

I think they should be able to play all their material as well, they wrote and played it with the band, and released it under the band name.
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: Shadow Ninja 2.0 on May 13, 2014, 07:58:05 AM
I'm pretty sure they're not going to play the thing in full, so it's sort of a moot point.
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: son_ov_hades on May 13, 2014, 08:06:11 AM
I think the idea of a band not being legally allowed their songs is ridiculous. Pink Floyd should be able to play The Wall, Queensryche should be able to play Operation: Mindcrime and Dream Theater should be able to play the 12 Step Suite. One the other hand I believe that Roger Waters, Geoff Tate, and Mike Portnoy should play whatever they want from the time they were in their previous bands as well.

I think they all should be ABLE to, but playing the 12SS (altogether, not individual songs) should just be left alone out of respect, not because of legal bindings.

I think they should be able to play all their material as well, they wrote and played it with the band, and released it under the band name.

Well I highly doubt they'd play the whole thing anyway, which is good. I don't want them to but not out of respect for Mike Portnoy, I just hope to never see This Dying Soul live.  :P
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: BlobVanDam on May 13, 2014, 08:06:41 AM
I agree with most of what has been said so far. I don't see that DT would want to play the 12SS in one go at this point, for the very reasons that MP feels so close to it, but they're DT songs, so DT should be free to play them if they chose to. I'd like to hear MP get to perform the full suite one day too, because it works surprisingly better than expected in one go.

Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: ? on May 13, 2014, 08:09:45 AM
I understand MP's view and I agree that DT shouldn't play the suite in full, but I doubt they were ever going to do that anyway.
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: KevShmev on May 13, 2014, 08:36:09 AM
I don't see anything wrong with the stance he took here, although I don't buy his "I didn't think about it" line about getting the rights to the 12SS.  We are supposed to believe that someone as OCD, anal and detail-oriented as Mike Portnoy simply didn't think about trying to get the rights to "his concept and his baby" during the split?  No freaking way.  I just think his pride won't let him admit that quitting the band the way he did probably took away most of his leverage when it came to such demands.

Also, regarding the comments about Floyd, no way did Roger Waters get the last laugh.  Pink Floyd is retired, so it's not like they couldn't decide to tour tomorrow, even without Richard Wright, and not make more money that any of us could count.  They simply have chosen not to work since the mid 90s, except for the Live 8 one-off.  I mean, props to Waters for making boatloads of cash the last few years by being a nostalgia act, something Floyd never resorted to being, but let's have some perspective here, eh?
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: rumborak on May 13, 2014, 08:44:31 AM
I understand MP's view and I agree that DT shouldn't play the suite in full, but I doubt they were ever going to do that anyway.
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: ReaPsTA on May 13, 2014, 08:55:36 AM
Roger Waters has sole songwriting credits on almost the entire Wall album.

12 Step Suite was written by the whole band.

I don't really see how these are analagous.
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: Onno on May 13, 2014, 09:21:50 AM
I don't see anything wrong with what Mike said, given the context. And honestly I get why he wouldn't want them to do the whole thing without him. He must know they're playing The Shattered Fortress now and played The Root of All Evil on the ADTOE tour, right? If he does, it's pretty clear cut that he objects to playing the entire thing, not just one or two of the songs. Besides, I don't think Dream Theater is really itching to play the entire 12SS right now, are they?
Fully agreed. Although the individual songs in the 12SS weren't written solely by MP, he thought of the concept and wrote all the lyrics. He probably did a shitload of arranging too and might have thought of the recurring musical themes. I understand that he wouldn't like DT to perform the whole 12SS from beginning to end.
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: Sir Walrus Cauliflower on May 13, 2014, 09:50:34 AM
Well I highly doubt they'd play the whole thing anyway, which is good. I don't want them to but not out of respect for Mike Portnoy, I just hope to never see This Dying Soul live.  :P

I'd actually love to see it.
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: rumborak on May 13, 2014, 09:51:49 AM
Roger Waters has sole songwriting credits on almost the entire Wall album.

12 Step Suite was written by the whole band.

I don't really see how these are analagous.

I think that's also why the band would never cease control over it. I think at best MP could have gotten the rights of playing the whole thing in its entirety. Which is kinda moot anyway because a) DT likely has no interest in playing it anyway and b) he already has the ability to play whatever DT tune he wants, right?
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: KevShmev on May 13, 2014, 10:09:00 AM
I'd be more interested to know if he insisted on having sole rights to play The Best of Times.  Not that he ever would, as I think I remember him saying it would be too emotional for him to ever play live, but I am sure he'd rather the band never play that song without him.
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: Ben_Jamin on May 13, 2014, 12:00:11 PM
This is why we won't ever see ACOS live ever again...unless they invite MP for a special show.

Sensationalism at its best. But I'm not interested in the MP debate thing, I'm more interested in his view and thoughts.
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: theseoafs on May 13, 2014, 12:09:22 PM
I think that's also why the band would never cease control over it. I think at best MP could have gotten the rights of playing the whole thing in its entirety. Which is kinda moot anyway because a) DT likely has no interest in playing it anyway and b) he already has the ability to play whatever DT tune he wants, right?

MP doesn't need special rights to play the 12SS.  He can play any DT song whenever he wants (e.g. all the PSMS DT covers).  He could see about getting exclusive rights to play the 12SS, though I don't know how he could do that.  No song on a DT album was ever written by MP alone; I don't know how a judge would deem his contributions to those songs more important that they trounce all the other instrumentalists' contributions.
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: mikeyd23 on May 13, 2014, 12:16:24 PM
MP doesn't need special rights to play the 12SS.  He can play any DT song whenever he wants (e.g. all the PSMS DT covers).  He could see about getting exclusive rights to play the 12SS, though I don't know how he could do that.  No song on a DT album was ever written by MP alone; I don't know how a judge would deem his contributions to those songs more important that they trounce all the other instrumentalists' contributions.

Yeah, I'm pretty sure the music is credited to all the instrumentalists and the lyrics are credited to MP for pretty much every song in the 12SS.  So while the idea for the lyrical concepts was his, it would be hard to make a case that the other guys didn't have a right to play the songs if they wanted to.
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: MoraWintersoul on May 13, 2014, 12:29:47 PM
Well I totes get MP, this is a stance he's had consistently for years in relation to which songs wouldn't be performed because they are distinctly "someone's baby" so it's not like he's changing his stance now that he's out of the band, or that the criteria to what constitutes as "a band member's baby" have changed.

Personally, I'd like DT to take the hint and not perform any more of the 12 step songs in the future, nor The Best Of Times. It's one thing when an ex-member of the band has repeatedly stated that he hasn't got any personal connection with the song which is "his baby" (the Kevin/SDV situation), and when you know your ex-drummer is kind of not okay with that or wishes that he had the exclusive right to do it. It's not expressly forbidden but it's kinda unnecessary. But I'm not a DT member thank God.

I'd kinda like to see someone asking Kevin about DT playing SDV now, but only because I'd hope for an answer more interesting than "well it's a Dream Theater song on a Dream Theater album". Dunno what exact interesting but plausible response it could be... maybe "I saw a video and it looks cool, good on them".
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: JayOctavarium on May 13, 2014, 12:31:44 PM
The problem is that TGP is a fan favourite

:(
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: KevShmev on May 13, 2014, 12:39:40 PM
To me, if the band recorded the song and put it on one of their albums, it should be fair game to play it live.  I get not playing something like The Best of Times out of respect, given what the song means to their ex-drummer, but if the song is that personal, then maybe it shouldn't have been released in the first place.  Once it's out there, well, it's out there. :lol :lol
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: MoraWintersoul on May 13, 2014, 12:44:58 PM
Yeah, but then you can also say that the 12-step-suite is equally as personal to Mike, because he said he is. I mean we could get into debates over whether or not death is more personal than recovery (and it wouldn't be the weirdest thing debated on dtf dot com :lol) but ultimately we just have to wait and see whether the band plays it again and how Mike feels about it and vice versa. Obviously DT dudes think everything is fair game, maybe their attitude will change, maybe not.
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: mikeyd23 on May 13, 2014, 12:47:50 PM
To me, if the band recorded the song and put it on one of their albums, it should be fair game to play it live.  I get not playing something like The Best of Times out of respect, given what the song means to their ex-drummer, but if the song is that personal, then maybe it shouldn't have been released in the first place.  Once it's out there, well, it's out there. :lol :lol

Yeah I agree with that.  I don't understand the "DT shouldn't play these songs that are meaningful to MP" perspective really.  They were released as DT songs and MP quit DT.  Therefore, DT can continue to play whatever DT songs they would like, whenever they would like regardless of whether MP may or may not have an emotional tie to the lyrics of those songs.
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: KevShmev on May 13, 2014, 12:48:09 PM
Well, the band has played two of the five 12SS songs thus far since his departure, and considering they've only had two tours since, I think that shows that they have no problem playing those songs.  I doubt they'll ever play the whole thing straight through (Thank GOD!!), but I think most of the songs from it are ones they'll always consider (I see Repentance being the one they'll never play, for obvious reasons).
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: ReaPsTA on May 13, 2014, 12:56:19 PM
(I see Repentance being the one they'll never play, for obvious reasons).

I'd agree it's the least likely song for them to play, but why is it obvious that they'd never play it?
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: KevShmev on May 13, 2014, 12:58:31 PM
The apology section would be strange live without all of the recorded apologies, and playing them live now would be even stranger since most of those who participated are buddies with Portnoy (Neal Morse, Akerfeldt, Chris Jericho, etc.).   I can't see them getting on board with playing the latter half of that song now.
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: rumborak on May 13, 2014, 01:58:24 PM
Also, who would say the "the truth is the truth...." part. That's a very MP-ish thing.
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: ? on May 13, 2014, 02:01:56 PM
MP has played Repentance with Flying Colors (without the second half, I think?) and the song is obviously more important to him, so I can't see DT bothering to do it.
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: Sir Walrus Cauliflower on May 13, 2014, 02:10:30 PM
MP has played Repentance with Flying Colors (without the second half, I think?) and the song is obviously more important to him, so I can't see DT bothering to do it.

DT and Mikael Akerfeldt have played it together too... I thought it was an interesting song choice to play as a collaboration.
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: TAC on May 13, 2014, 02:41:39 PM
I believe Jordan has said that "nothing" is off limits.
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: hefdaddy42 on May 13, 2014, 02:56:35 PM
The only thing I have to say is

This is why we won't ever see ACOS live ever again...unless they invite MP for a special show.
???
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: rumborak on May 13, 2014, 03:06:02 PM
I believe Jordan has said that "nothing" is off limits.

That makes me hopeful for finally seeing MTHIDDRITSS live!
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: JayOctavarium on May 13, 2014, 03:07:20 PM
The only things I can see not getting played again would be TBOT and Repentance. The rest of the AA suite is fair game as well as ACOS (even though I just doubt it will be played anytime soon by DT... not because of MP but just because there is so much more that they haven't played.)
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: TAC on May 13, 2014, 04:07:22 PM
If ACOS is not played on the next leg of this tour, it WILL be included after the next album is released. That is my prediction.
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: Sir Walrus Cauliflower on May 13, 2014, 04:08:58 PM
If ACOS is not played on the next leg of this tour, it WILL be included after the next album is released. That is my prediction.

I want you to be right so badly.
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: rumborak on May 13, 2014, 04:34:37 PM
I agree with TAC. I think ACOS is just around the corner.
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: TAC on May 13, 2014, 04:37:53 PM
I agree with TAC. I think ACOS is just around the corner.

Absolutely. And if for nothing else, it's because the fans are beating this drum.  Although MP had this reputation for being in touch with the fans, this band IS paying attention.

Apparently the second US leg is after the Holidays, right? That means 2015. What year was ACOS released? Convenient, eh?
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: Madman Shepherd on May 13, 2014, 04:39:07 PM
Every time MP refers to something as his "baby" I want to punch kittens. 
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: TheAtliator on May 13, 2014, 04:42:42 PM
^pretty much.
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: TAC on May 13, 2014, 04:44:36 PM
Really? It's how he talks. Why is it so annoying?
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: Madman Shepherd on May 13, 2014, 05:20:34 PM
Perhaps its because he makes it so personal.  It's almost a passive aggressive way of making his contributions supersede anybody elses. 

and then....

THE METAPHORS!!!

"I raised the baby, I changed the baby's diapers.  Whenever the baby had projectile diarrhea, I was there in the line of fire.  I even got a little in my mouth!  I sacrificed so much for my baby.  Now my baby hates me and thinks Mike Mangini is its real father!" 

It gets old. 
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: Sycsa on May 13, 2014, 05:32:12 PM
I'm pretty sure that JP took the lion's share in composing the songs anyway. I hope they'll be playing TGP together with TDS on the second leg instead of TSF.
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: Anguyen92 on May 13, 2014, 05:36:30 PM
Perhaps its because he makes it so personal.  It's almost a passive aggressive way of making his contributions supersede anybody elses. 

and then....

THE METAPHORS!!!

"I raised the baby, I changed the baby's diapers.  Whenever the baby had projectile diarrhea, I was there in the line of fire.  I even got a little in my mouth!  I sacrificed so much for my baby.  Now my baby hates me and thinks Mike Mangini is its real father!" 

It gets old.

It never gets old if people twists the metaphors into something entertaining to read, regardless if it is true or not.
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: Madman Shepherd on May 13, 2014, 06:00:48 PM
Good point.  It's a blessing in disguise. 
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: Laughingplace56 on May 13, 2014, 07:34:12 PM
Not playing the 12SS or ACoS would be the same thing as not playing anything from WDADU-Awake cuz KM left, or nothing from FII or ACoS cuz DS was let go, in my opinion. Personal value or not, they shouldn't be restricted to not palying certain songs just because an ex member who quit on their own wrote them. Not playing say TBoT out of respect is understandable (plus i don't see anyone begging for it live anyway), but I find it more respectful since they've never played it live, and that was a song MP insisted on not playing live for personal values. They've played ACoS over 100 times and TGp-TRoAE 50-150 times each. They never played TSF, but (I think?) only because they were waiting for DT11 to come out and play the entire 12SS as the second set, so that was fair game as well.
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: BlobVanDam on May 13, 2014, 09:46:14 PM
I agree with TAC. I think ACOS is just around the corner.

Absolutely. And if for nothing else, it's because the fans are beating this drum.  Although MP had this reputation for being in touch with the fans, this band IS paying attention.

Apparently the second US leg is after the Holidays, right? That means 2015. What year was ACOS released? Convenient, eh?

They may not even change the setlist at all. There have been other songs and albums that I would have considered a sure bet by this point, and have yet to transpire. Basically, I wouldn't place my bets on anything at this point.

And I just plain hope it doesn't happen anyway. They could do so much better with those 20+ minutes of set time. such as an intermission or drum solo
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: DarkLord_Lalinc on May 13, 2014, 09:57:51 PM
The problem is that TGP is a fan favourite

:(
If The Shattered Fortress was played, I really think The Glass Prison will make a legendary return someday soon.
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: ReaPsTA on May 13, 2014, 09:59:40 PM
I'm pretty sure that JP took the lion's share in composing the songs anyway.

This is a big part of why, for me, it's hard to separate Dream Theater into pre and post MP eras the way MP himself seems to.  Obviously, he was in the band, so he'd feel that way, but...

I think especially after the last two albums, it's become very apparent how, even when MP was the leader of the band, JP was the primary driving force behind the band's music.  When MP talks about any part of DT being his baby, my immediate thought it that JP probably wrote most of it.
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: DarkLord_Lalinc on May 13, 2014, 10:10:06 PM
I do think John Petrucci has been and will always be Dream Theater's key element. There can be Dream Theater without Mike Portnoy, but there can't be Dream Theater without John Petrucci.
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: ReaPsTA on May 13, 2014, 10:14:19 PM
I do think John Petrucci has been and will always be Dream Theater's key element. There can be Dream Theater without Mike Portnoy, but there can't be Dream Theater without John Petrucci.

Bingo.  As a fan, I'd actually find it offputting if the other members continued under the name without him.  I hope I wouldn't be pedantic about it (because we know how sad it was when MP fans honestly hoped the band would dissolve), but I wouldn't like it.
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: theseoafs on May 13, 2014, 10:22:56 PM
If ACOS is not played on the next leg of this tour, it WILL be included after the next album is released. That is my prediction.

This is a good prediction, particularly A) the next tour isn't evening with and B) the new album doesn't close with a mega-epic.  ACOS is not only not off-limits, but its time has probably come.
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: KevShmev on May 13, 2014, 10:34:21 PM
Perhaps its because he makes it so personal.  It's almost a passive aggressive way of making his contributions supersede anybody elses. 

and then....

THE METAPHORS!!!

"I raised the baby, I changed the baby's diapers.  Whenever the baby had projectile diarrhea, I was there in the line of fire.  I even got a little in my mouth!  I sacrificed so much for my baby.  Now my baby hates me and thinks Mike Mangini is its real father!" 

It gets old.

 :rollin :rollin :rollin
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: BlobVanDam on May 13, 2014, 10:36:03 PM
If ACOS is not played on the next leg of this tour, it WILL be included after the next album is released. That is my prediction.

This is a good prediction, particularly A) the next tour isn't evening with and B) the new album doesn't close with a mega-epic.  ACOS is not only not off-limits, but its time has probably come.

Apparently your copy of DT12 cuts off at track 8.
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: gmillerdrake on May 13, 2014, 10:39:24 PM
If I were DT I'd play the thing in its entirety at Sionosphere.....I think them and Winery Dogs are there at the same time....at least I recall reading that. I'd crank it up to 11 and nail every friggin' section. If  not there then somewhere because they did absolutely nothing wrong in that whole ordeal. The only thing they did was handle it in the best way possible and carry on. Those are DT songs.....not MP songs plain and simple and I'd make the point of playing them all just because I could.
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: The Dark Master on May 13, 2014, 11:23:54 PM
Well, I think Mike is pretty much spot on about all the Queensryche stuff, although he's way off on the Waters/Floyd comparison, both in reference to Tate/QR, and to himself/DT.

However, I agree with what gmillerdrake and others have said.  The 12 Step songs are Dream Theater songs, not Mike Portnoy songs.  He wrote the lyrics for them, yes, but the band wrote the music, as a collective.  Additionally, my understanding is that it has primarily always been Petrucci and whoever-the-keyboardist-was-at-the-moment who were the actual songwriters, and Mike's main songwriting contributions were lyrics, arrangements and concepts.  Mike certainly deserves a lot of credit for making DT what it was, and still is, but to act like he was the mastermind behind the band, even for certain specific songs, is ridiculous.

Furthermore, I always felt that MP's choosing not to play certain songs because they were too close to certain past members was a bit biased.  He wouldn't play Space-Dye Vest cause it was written entirely by Kevin Moore.... and yet they still played Wait For Sleep (music & lyrics by Moore) quite regularly throughout their careers, and had no problem playing other songs with Kevin's lyrics (including a certain Top 10 hit single).  Likewise, he didn't want to play Anna Lee after Derek left because it was very much a "Derek song", and yet, Mike and JP have both commented that Derek was the driving force behind writing Lines In The Sand, a song that was played many times after Derek left.  Why?  Because it's  MP's favorite song from FII.

Bottom line, if it's on a Dream Theater album, it's a Dream Theater song.  And Dream Theater has the right to play any song off a Dream Theater album.  Period.  Mike chose to leave the band.  He has no right to complain about what they can and cannot play.
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: ? on May 13, 2014, 11:53:33 PM
"I raised the baby, I changed the baby's diapers.  Whenever the baby had projectile diarrhea, I was there in the line of fire.  I even got a little in my mouth!  I sacrificed so much for my baby.  Now my baby hates me and thinks Mike Mangini is its real father!" 
Holy crap :rollin
This is a good prediction, particularly A) the next tour isn't evening with
Who said that? ??? James said he likes this format more than touring with a support band, so I could see them continuing that way.
Furthermore, I always felt that MP's choosing not to play certain songs because they were too close to certain past members was a bit biased.  He wouldn't play Space-Dye Vest cause it was written entirely by Kevin Moore.... and yet they still played Wait For Sleep (music & lyrics by Moore) quite regularly throughout their careers, and had no problem playing other songs with Kevin's lyrics (including a certain Top 10 hit single).  Likewise, he didn't want to play Anna Lee after Derek left because it was very much a "Derek song", and yet, Mike and JP have both commented that Derek was the driving force behind writing Lines In The Sand, a song that was played many times after Derek left.  Why?  Because it's  MP's favorite song from FII.
I wholeheartedly agree.
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: farsight on May 14, 2014, 02:13:45 AM
Oh whoa [3x]

You know you love me, I know you care
Just shout whenever, and I'll be there
You are my love, you are my heart
And we will never ever ever be apart

Are we an item? Girl, quit playing
We're just friends, what are you saying?
Say there's another and look right in my eyes
My first love broke my heart for the first time
And I was like...

Baby, baby, baby oooh
Like baby, baby, baby nooo
Like baby, baby, baby oooh
I thought you'd always be mine (mine)
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: RaiseTheKnife on May 14, 2014, 04:22:03 AM
I'd kinda like to see someone asking Kevin about DT playing SDV now, but only because I'd hope for an answer more interesting than "well it's a Dream Theater song on a Dream Theater album". Dunno what exact interesting but plausible response it could be... maybe "I saw a video and it looks cool, good on them".

I asked JP if he heard any feedback from Kevin about DT playing SDV, and his response was "No.  None."

I would find it amusing if Kevin responded to a fans inquiry by chiming "oh yeah, I heard about that when the royalty checks started to arrive."  Just my hypothetical. 
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: ? on May 14, 2014, 04:45:28 AM
I would find it amusing if Kevin responded to a fans inquiry by chiming "oh yeah, I heard about that when the royalty checks started to arrive."  Just my hypothetical.
Future Blabbermouth headline:

"Former DREAM THEATER Bandmates Financed Kevin Moore's Medical Studies By Playing His Song Live"

(I know the royalties wouldn't be nearly big enough but... :lol)
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: JediKnight1969 on May 14, 2014, 05:19:35 AM
I don't see anything wrong with the stance he took here, although I don't buy his "I didn't think about it" line about getting the rights to the 12SS.  We are supposed to believe that someone as OCD, anal and detail-oriented as Mike Portnoy simply didn't think about trying to get the rights to "his concept and his baby" during the split?  No freaking way.  I just think his pride won't let him admit that quitting the band the way he did probably took away most of his leverage when it came to such demands.

Also, regarding the comments about Floyd, no way did Roger Waters get the last laugh.  Pink Floyd is retired, so it's not like they couldn't decide to tour tomorrow, even without Richard Wright, and not make more money that any of us could count.  They simply have chosen not to work since the mid 90s, except for the Live 8 one-off.  I mean, props to Waters for making boatloads of cash the last few years by being a nostalgia act, something Floyd never resorted to being, but let's have some perspective here, eh?

THIS.
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: mikeyd23 on May 14, 2014, 07:44:14 AM
Perhaps its because he makes it so personal.  It's almost a passive aggressive way of making his contributions supersede anybody elses. 

Totally agree, he always seems to phrase things and give himself more credit than he might deserve. Especially since....
I do think John Petrucci has been and will always be Dream Theater's key element. There can be Dream Theater without Mike Portnoy, but there can't be Dream Theater without John Petrucci.

JP is the driving force behind DT music, always has been and always will be.  Sure, MP penned the lyrics to the 12SS about something personal to him, but who wrote all those riffs, chord progressions, solos, melodys, etc...etc...?  JP and JR.  Do you see JP and JR calling pretty much all the DT music that has been composed since SFAM "their baby", nope you don't.  I can't even imagine JP speaking about a song a taking more credit than other members or even insinuating that he deserved more credit.  In fact, its the opposite, every time JP discusses songs and the writing process, he goes out of his way to credit the entire group and give everyone credit for contributing in the way they feel inspired or comfortable to contribute.
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: rumborak on May 14, 2014, 08:03:45 AM
It's the same reason why big dogs bark far less than small dogs. They don't need to, their authority is tacitly understood.
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: BlobVanDam on May 14, 2014, 08:09:31 AM
In this article, he never claims he wrote the music, or denies anyone else in DT writing credit. He says the 12SS as a concept was his "baby", which makes perfect sense when you consider what the topic meant to him personally.
Come on, people. Everybody knows babies can have more than just one parent! :lol :marriageanalogy:

Slow news period, huh?
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: KevShmev on May 14, 2014, 08:16:40 AM
Right, but while he didn't do it this time, he can sometimes word things in a way that make it seem like he did it all.  I remember him talking once about how he played the demo of The Best of Times (with him singing) at his father's funeral, which is a very touching thing, and added that it was a song that he wrote, but when you say, "a song that I wrote," the implication is that you wrote the music and the lyrics. 

To go back to rumborak's point, I've always found that a bizarre character trait of Mike Portnoy's.  Yes, he did a shit ton of stuff for the band over the years, and he was gonna damn sure let us all know that he did it all.  It's like if you are an actor who is always helping out various charities, yet feels the need to constantly publicize it: the satisfaction is in actually doing it, not in shouting to the world that you are doing it.  He would justify it as setting the facts straight, like if some fans online suggested that others might have done this or that, but it far too often came across as chest-pounding.
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: ReaPsTA on May 14, 2014, 08:38:09 AM
It's the same reason why big dogs bark far less than small dogs. They don't need to, their authority is tacitly understood.

It sounds dumb, but the fact there was zero power struggle within the band after MP left says a lot.
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: nikatapi on May 14, 2014, 08:57:25 AM
Right, but while he didn't do it this time, he can sometimes word things in a way that make it seem like he did it all.  I remember him talking once about how he played the demo of The Best of Times (with him singing) at his father's funeral, which is a very touching thing, and added that it was a song that he wrote, but when you say, "a song that I wrote," the implication is that you wrote the music and the lyrics. 

To go back to rumborak's point, I've always found that a bizarre character trait of Mike Portnoy's.  Yes, he did a shit ton of stuff for the band over the years, and he was gonna damn sure let us all know that he did it all.  It's like if you are an actor who is always helping out various charities, yet feels the need to constantly publicize it: the satisfaction is in actually doing it, not in shouting to the world that you are doing it.  He would justify it as setting the facts straight, like if some fans online suggested that others might have done this or that, but it far too often came across as chest-pounding.

Yeah this seems to be a common misconception, i mean Tate is an asshole, but at least he wrote music and lyrics. Mike definitely was behind the concept and the lyrics, but his musical contributions were mostly structure suggestions, it's not like he composed the music, added riffs etc. I'm sure he wrote most of the vocal melodies though, which is a contibution, but it's not writing a song.

He has a point as far as the concept is concerned, but overall i think it would be unfair for him to want to have sole performing rights for the 12SS, since the music was written mainly by JP and JR. Not that DT would play the whole suit live, but as a thought it seems kind of silly.
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: rumborak on May 14, 2014, 09:07:53 AM
It's the same reason why big dogs bark far less than small dogs. They don't need to, their authority is tacitly understood.

It sounds dumb, but the fact there was zero power struggle within the band after MP left says a lot.

It's also not exactly conjecture. Paul Northfield in that recent interview laid it plain out: JP is the songwriting heavyweight in the band, with JR and MP maybe of equal but far lesser impact. As Northfield pointed out, MP has vast musical knowledge, but in the end he's not gonna write the riffs or chord progressions or solos. His influence was inevitably at the "maybe we should switch around A and B" level, and likely rhythm stuff.
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: puppyonacid on May 14, 2014, 09:25:37 AM
I get that same impression regarding JP. I've always kinda figured he was and is the main music writer. I know JR will contribute with progressions and arrangements as does JM (there are some kickass DT riffs that were JMs idea) but I get the feeling most songs germinate with JP.

I've often wondered if that's why we're not seeing another solo album from him anytime soon. He may not feel the need on an artistic level as he must be pretty satisfied on a creative level with his output from DT.

I've never subscribed to the idea that a lyricist is credited as a "songwriter". Painstakingly constructing an 8 minute piece of music that is harmonically, rhythmically and melodically interesting is  a bit trickier than penning lyrics to a finished article.

I could write 10sets of lyrics to 10 pre-set pieces of music a lot quicker than writing that music in the first place. And lets face it, the music in DT would be just as interesting regardless of the lyrical content.
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: ? on May 14, 2014, 09:27:37 AM
Right, but while he didn't do it this time, he can sometimes word things in a way that make it seem like he did it all.  I remember him talking once about how he played the demo of The Best of Times (with him singing) at his father's funeral, which is a very touching thing, and added that it was a song that he wrote, but when you say, "a song that I wrote," the implication is that you wrote the music and the lyrics. 

To go back to rumborak's point, I've always found that a bizarre character trait of Mike Portnoy's.  Yes, he did a shit ton of stuff for the band over the years, and he was gonna damn sure let us all know that he did it all.  It's like if you are an actor who is always helping out various charities, yet feels the need to constantly publicize it: the satisfaction is in actually doing it, not in shouting to the world that you are doing it.  He would justify it as setting the facts straight, like if some fans online suggested that others might have done this or that, but it far too often came across as chest-pounding.
Yeah this seems to be a common misconception, i mean Tate is an asshole, but at least he wrote music and lyrics.
Actually, Queensryche members have pointed out that Tate never wrote any music, just lyrics. At least MP never claimed he wrote 81% of DT's music! :lol
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: theseoafs on May 14, 2014, 11:02:06 AM
This is a good prediction, particularly A) the next tour isn't evening with
Who said that? ??? James said he likes this format more than touring with a support band, so I could see them continuing that way.

Sorry, I was typing on mobile and fucked that up.  That should read "particularly if the next tour IS evening with", which I realize is the opposite of what I said.
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: IdoSC on May 14, 2014, 12:00:56 PM
It seems like he's seriously considering to claim the rights on these songs and honestly, if he's gonna do that, he's completely dead to me by now. Sorry for sounding like a hater, but it was his fault for leaving the band, it was his damn decision, and he's been trying to go all Roger Waters/Geoff Tate about it since as if he wants it to be a "milestone" in the band's career. But he's not either of these people, DT is not either of these bands, and the fans are definitely not the same. We don't need nor do we want an ugly breakup, is it so bad if both sides are allowed to play every song on their own?
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: IdoSC on May 14, 2014, 12:06:53 PM
The problem is that TGP is a fan favourite

:(
If The Shattered Fortress was played, I really think The Glass Prison will make a legendary return SOMEDAY SOOOOOOOOOOON.
Fixed.

(had to :( )
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: KevShmev on May 14, 2014, 12:13:30 PM
Well, I doubt most fans consider the 12SS one of the band's true milestones, and it certainly doesn't compare to how The Wall is to Floyd and Mindcrime is to Queensryche.  It's a personal milestone of Mike Portnoy alone, which is why he has such an attachment to it.  You can't blame him for that, if nothing else.
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: TAC on May 14, 2014, 12:22:20 PM
No, you can't blame him for that.
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: hefdaddy42 on May 14, 2014, 12:42:42 PM
It seems like he's seriously considering to claim the rights on these songs
No it doesn't.
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: rumborak on May 14, 2014, 01:30:06 PM
I think MP is smart enough to know he would never get them. So no, he's not considering it.

And yeah, the comparison with The Wall falls apart from the simple fact that The Wall is one of the most iconic albums of all time. If The Wall is the main concert, the AAA suite is the guy handing out fliers right after the highway exit to the venue.
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: theseoafs on May 14, 2014, 02:19:12 PM
the AAA suite

Hello, rearview mirror, so glad to see you my friend...
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: Sycsa on May 14, 2014, 02:43:19 PM
The Wall is one of the most iconic albums of all time.
That's not really saying much though and it's just one step away from making the fallacious popular=good argument. I'm a classic prog guy and I like The Wall, but in terms of how much I enjoy it (the only really important criteria when evaluating music), it doesn't come close neither to the AA suite, nor to Floyd's earlier output. That bass does sound nice though. In terms of popularity, you're dead on that it's a bad comparison as MP couldn't make a living off the AA suite.
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: TAC on May 14, 2014, 02:46:46 PM
The Wall is one of the most iconic albums of all time.
That's not really saying much though and it's just one step away from making the fallacious popular=good argument. I'm a classic prog guy and I like The Wall, but in terms of how much I enjoy it (the only really important criteria when evaluating music), it doesn't come close neither to the AA suite, nor to Floyd's earlier output. That bass does sound nice though.
Huh?

I don't care for it either but that doesn't make it any less iconic.
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: Grizz on May 14, 2014, 03:05:24 PM
"I raised the baby, I changed the baby's diapers.  Whenever the baby had projectile diarrhea, I was there in the line of fire.  I even got a little in my mouth!  I sacrificed so much for my baby.  Now my baby hates me and thinks Mike Mangini is its real father!"
The problem is that TGP is a fan favourite

:(
If The Shattered Fortress was played, I really think The Glass Prison will make a legendary return SOMEDAY SOOOOOOOOOOON.
Fixed.

(had to :( )
the AAA suite

Hello, rearview mirror, so glad to see you my friend...
This thread might be better than Psychosane exercises.
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: rumborak on May 14, 2014, 03:10:10 PM
Yeah, Sycsa, your own personal enjoyment of the albums in question is rather irrelevant. The Wall was the pinnacle of Pink Floyd's career, and it's voted #87 in Rolling Stone's 500 Best Albums of All Time.
The only even marginal comparison would be if MP wanted to have the rights to IAW or SFAM. DT no longer being able to to perform songs from either of those albums would be a monumental blow. Whereas the 12SS, other than TGP it would probably be met with a "bummer. Oh well." by DT.
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: MoraWintersoul on May 14, 2014, 03:16:28 PM
the AAA suite

Hello, rearview mirror, so glad to see you my friend...
fuck ahahahahhahahahah
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: rumborak on May 14, 2014, 03:21:29 PM
The Shattered Bumpers
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: Madman Shepherd on May 14, 2014, 04:24:23 PM
It's the same reason why big dogs bark far less than small dogs. They don't need to, their authority is tacitly understood.

It sounds dumb, but the fact there was zero power struggle within the band after MP left says a lot.

It's also not exactly conjecture. Paul Northfield in that recent interview laid it plain out: JP is the songwriting heavyweight in the band, with JR and MP maybe of equal but far lesser impact. As Northfield pointed out, MP has vast musical knowledge, but in the end he's not gonna write the riffs or chord progressions or solos. His influence was inevitably at the "maybe we should switch around A and B" level, and likely rhythm stuff.

Which is why I always thought it was a bit much when people referred to MP as taking care of the arrangement.  Sure he did do a lot of that but JP seems to be very much the guy in charge and if he felt strongly about something, I think he would probably get his way being that he was the main songwriter.  When it came to the concepts, JP was more willing to let Mike drive the ship behind stuff like the AA Suite and the whole 5/8 stuff.  (Of course, I think the SFAM concept was more Petrucci's with strong input by MP).

I think the band in its current state is more centrally driven by JP but also more open to input by the other guys.  When things don't go their way I think they are more satisfied that it is for the right reasons.  for instance, JLB apparently submitted at least three different lyrics for ADTOE but only one was chosen.  His only response when asked (this was in a foreign country and I never did get to see the full interview)  was, "I'm not sure why they weren't chosen" but he didn't seem bitter at all.  Just sorta like, "He, if thats the worst thing about this album then I can't get too upset"

Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: Madman Shepherd on May 14, 2014, 04:26:14 PM
the AAA suite

Hello, rearview mirror, so glad to see you my friend...
fuck ahahahahhahahahah

The Shattered Bumpers

This Dying Battery

The Route of All Evil
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: Grizz on May 14, 2014, 04:34:49 PM
The Shattered Bumpers
Quote from: lonestar link=topic=35260.msg1604128#msg1604128
It's DT's nice way of saying "prepare your anus, we're going in dry."
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: Rodni Demental on May 14, 2014, 06:15:43 PM
Just one or two points (or ten  :lol) regarding the subject of this topic. Although I'll start with saying, all of these guys had contributions to the songs, they have split writing credit for almost all of the music, and the lyrics seem to be credited above the composition, although I'm not sure if that's intentional or related to the perspective of MP/JP/ The rest of DT about the significance of lyric credits. In any case, it's clear that all the members have music contributions that we can only speculate when it comes down to who gave more input to which song.  So it seems obvious that no one member should have any particular claim over any one song. In fact there are only 2 examples (maybe 3?) that even have single writing credits, and I think it's The Silent Man and Beneath The Surface (and Space Dye Vest). But, I still don't see how JR didn't contribute to the music composition in BTS because there's string movements and a keyboard solo..

But I mostly wanted to say; I think some of you guys are understating the relevance of the drum patterns in the composition. It's something Nearl Peart said that left an impression on me, and it's something I am inclined to agree with, I wouldn't quote me directly, but it was along the lines of: Drums are usually the subject of rock music, they don't have to be, but more often than not, the drums are the key ingredient and basis for the progression and movement of the song. Also, we practically universally use the subject of the kick and the snare to define and separate aspects of the music, and the cymbalwork is the glue that holds the focal points of that rhythm together. Lyrics are another rhythmic aspect of the music, because the structure and annunciation of the word is what determines which beats are emphasised by the phrasing of the lyrics. This shows that lyrics play an integral role in the rhythm and structure of a song, equally as much as they determine the lead melody (which is what we normally assume as the primary role of vocals).

It seems that as a drummer and a lyricist he's established a very profound understanding of the relationship between these functions in music composition and he could describe this idea far more elegantly than my attempt. But part of my point is, a bunch of you guys seem to be discounting drums from the composition to a certain extent. I mean a drummer doesn't (traditionally) write chord progressions or melodies based on scales, but they do determine the mood and lay a basis for other subjects within the music to fit. Also, a drummer is normally more aware of the arrangement of a piece than anyone else because their sections are based on differing phrases of bars for each section or movement. Melodic instruments and singers have phrasing too, but to different effect, and normally with the drumming as a basis or foundation. And some of the motifs and progressions made by JR/JP wouldn't have been generated without the drumbeat that gave them the foundation for some of those ideas. I'm obviously assuming that they write as a group and so the would have bounced ideas off of each other like this. Of course not to say that any one individual member couldn't have come up with an idea on their own and tried to integrate it into the compositions, but I'm betting that most of the time the ideas are spontaneous, and naturally form and grow from each others ideas.

Which leads me to:
I've never subscribed to the idea that a lyricist is credited as a "songwriter". Painstakingly constructing an 8 minute piece of music that is harmonically, rhythmically and melodically interesting is  a bit trickier than penning lyrics to a finished article.

I could write 10sets of lyrics to 10 pre-set pieces of music a lot quicker than writing that music in the first place. And lets face it, the music in DT would be just as interesting regardless of the lyrical content.

I would argue the opposite here mostly from amateur experience. But it's an example of how different strokes work for different folks I guess. But I would write 10 pieces of music well before I had 10 sets of lyrics to go with them. Lyrics are painstakingly difficult for me to come up with (if I don't want them to seem fake and I want them to come from a sincere and honest place) but I could hop on my keyboard and bust out some progressions and have something resembling a 'song' well before I could even consider what it could be about lyrically.

Pretty much, the end results the same because as far as this discussion goes, I don't think any one person should have more right to any one DT song than any other current/ex member. I do however think that during this discussion, that more credit should be recognised for the drum patterns and lyrics as these elements are absolutely crucial in defining the musical and lyrical subject of a song yet often dismissed or taken for granted. I'm not even a drummer, and funnily enough (along with lyrics), drum patterns are the hardest part of a song for me to create personally, but I don't see how it's any less important or relevant in the composition of the music. Not to mention, as DT fans, we take expert level drumming for granted to the point where the only thing to complain about with MM is the production of his sound. But I tell ya what, if Dream Theater pulled an Avenged Severfold with their new drummer, we'd be complaining about something quite different as they've completely simplified the 'subject' of their drumming with the new album.
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: Dream Team on May 14, 2014, 06:59:59 PM
Nice post ^. MP's genius behind the kit is a BIG aspect of the appeal of the classic DT songs.
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: Sycsa on May 14, 2014, 10:40:29 PM
Yeah, Sycsa, your own personal enjoyment of the albums in question is rather irrelevant. The Wall was the pinnacle of Pink Floyd's career, and it's voted #87 in Rolling Stone's 500 Best Albums of All Time.
The only even marginal comparison would be if MP wanted to have the rights to IAW or SFAM. DT no longer being able to to perform songs from either of those albums would be a monumental blow. Whereas the 12SS, other than TGP it would probably be met with a "bummer. Oh well." by DT.
You missed my point here, or else you wouldn't be backing up your arguments with the Rolling Stone magazine. I never questioned the monumental impact of The Wall, I just said that it's not a good argument to belittle the 12SS based on relative popularity alone. Also, The Dark Side of the Moon sold better, so I wouldn't call The Wall the unquestionable pinnacle of PF's career (although it does win the sales game if you double its sales as they do it for double albums, which isn't a good way to measure relative popularity). 
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: lithium112 on May 15, 2014, 12:40:35 PM
<post>

Excellent post. Would agree with again.
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: RoeDent on May 15, 2014, 12:46:56 PM

That makes me hopeful for finally seeing MTHIDDRITSS live!

Sorry, but what on earth is that?!  :eek
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: Scorpion on May 15, 2014, 12:56:05 PM
Mike Thinks He's Dee Dee Ramone Introducing a Song Song.

Compositional masterpice, I tell you.
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: rumborak on May 15, 2014, 01:27:45 PM
Props to you Scorpion for actually decoding that :lol

And yes, masterpiece.
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: wasteland on May 15, 2014, 01:41:16 PM
Mike Thinks He's Dee Dee Ramone Introducing a Song Song.

Compositional masterpice, I tell you.

I used to quote this song before it was cool  :rollin
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: kirksnosehair on May 15, 2014, 01:53:55 PM
I do think John Petrucci has been and will always be Dream Theater's key element. There can be Dream Theater without Mike Portnoy, but there can't be Dream Theater without John Petrucci.


All you have to do is listen to Petrucci's solo album or even LTE and you can hear his stamp, which is all over everything Dream Theater has ever released.  I agree that Dream Theater can exist and continue largely unscathed without Portnoy, but the loss of Petrucci would mark the end of Dream Theater as we know it.  At least as far as any new material they released after such a huge change. 


I don't see that happening anytime soon, though.







Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: tiagodon on May 15, 2014, 03:41:13 PM
Side question: is Mike Mangini capable of composing a piece like that?
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: Scorpion on May 15, 2014, 04:43:35 PM
Props to you Scorpion for actually decoding that :lol

And yes, masterpiece.

Eh, there's only so many DT songs with more than 5 words... :lol
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: Sir Walrus Cauliflower on May 15, 2014, 05:32:00 PM
<post>

Excellent post (2)

I very much agree with you on the matter of writing lyrics. I'm terribly picky about the words I use (I rephrase an essay about 6 times  :lol), so phrasing and annunciation that sound proper are extremely difficult for me to dream up. On the other hand, I've got probably 50 different lyrical themes floating around I could choose, it's just putting them to a rhythm.

I haven't done an extensive amount of this though. It's just for fun every now and then.
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: rumborak on May 15, 2014, 05:42:05 PM
Side question: is Mike Mangini capable of composing a piece like that?

I don't see why he couldn't, disregarding of course the fact that he probably would not want to.
I think people sometimes like to elevate the 12SS to this glorious magnum opus of Mike Portnoy, as if the whole thing was this grandiose thing that is the epitome of his artistic work. To qquote The Man himself: "Upon finishing the Suite in 2009, he reflected that he had "dug [himself] into a hole with it. It was a nice idea seven years ago... After a while it became like an obligation hanging over my head, like a homework assignment." He said that he "didn't know if [he] would have done it" if he knew how big the Suite was going to be: "If I had realized what I was getting myself into five albums ago... I think maybe I would have written one song that encompassed all twelve steps"

While there are good parts to the 12SS, it is so massively bloated and forcefully self-referential that I have no desire to see it live in its entirety.
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: orcus116 on May 15, 2014, 06:05:10 PM
Has anyone actually listened to the songs in a row? Do they even work as a cohesive set of songs that you could call a suite?
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: TAC on May 15, 2014, 06:06:32 PM
Has anyone actually listened to the songs in a row? Do they even work as a cohesive set of songs that you could call a suite?

I personally have never done it. Don't really care for 3/5 of it.
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: Madman Shepherd on May 15, 2014, 06:13:48 PM
Side question: is Mike Mangini capable of composing a piece like that?

I don't see why he couldn't, disregarding of course the fact that he probably would not want to.
I think people sometimes like to elevate the 12SS to this glorious magnum opus of Mike Portnoy, as if the whole thing was this grandiose thing that is the epitome of his artistic work. To qquote The Man himself: "Upon finishing the Suite in 2009, he reflected that he had "dug [himself] into a hole with it. It was a nice idea seven years ago... After a while it became like an obligation hanging over my head, like a homework assignment." He said that he "didn't know if [he] would have done it" if he knew how big the Suite was going to be: "If I had realized what I was getting myself into five albums ago... I think maybe I would have written one song that encompassed all twelve steps"

While there are good parts to the 12SS, it is so massively bloated and forcefully self-referential that I have no desire to see it live in its entirety.

Same here.  I still think it is cool when one new song that is self referential comes out once every two years but to hear them all back to back for 50 something minutes is a bit of a drag. 

On the flip side we do get to hear a grown man growl/yell "COURTESY!!!"  which is funny. 
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: theseoafs on May 15, 2014, 07:08:31 PM
Has anyone actually listened to the songs in a row? Do they even work as a cohesive set of songs that you could call a suite?

If you enjoy all the individual pieces, I see no reason why you wouldn't like the suite.  Having said that, most people here seem to have one or more songs they don't care for as much.
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: Sir Walrus Cauliflower on May 15, 2014, 07:22:27 PM
Has anyone actually listened to the songs in a row? Do they even work as a cohesive set of songs that you could call a suite?

I have, actually. I found I liked Repentance more in the context of the suite. It's a nice little break from heavier songwriting (TGP, TDS, TROAE) and bridges the gap between the first 3 songs and TSF's summary of the suite nicely. I'd say it actrually works pretty well.
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: Anguyen92 on May 15, 2014, 08:51:04 PM
Has anyone actually listened to the songs in a row? Do they even work as a cohesive set of songs that you could call a suite?

Well, I'm going to listen to it now and, after an hour, I'll see if it works or not.
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: RaiseTheKnife on May 15, 2014, 09:21:52 PM
I can only profess that hearing TGP followed by TDS live was mind stomping awesome (Anaheim 2006).  Simply put, the reprising riffs have far more impact.  I say this as someone who is not particualrly fond of TDS.  When coupled with TGS in live setting, its a whole new monster.

Following that live experiece I created a AA Suite playlist to listen to the whole thing.  Regardless of what you think of each song individually, I'm willing to bet that hearing it all the way through would be a transformative experience.  Too bad that seems highly unlikely now.
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: Tis BOOLsheet on May 15, 2014, 09:24:54 PM
https://www.blabbermouth.net/news/mike-portnoy-weighs-in-on-queensryche-settlement-calls-it-the-right-outcome/

What about the fans MP that followed you and DT throughout this suite? Did you think of htem before making such a statement? However... your thoughts?

Maybe so, but it belongs to DT and not exclusively to MP. Furthermore none of that music would have been possible without the band.

(Responding to the thread title)
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: Anguyen92 on May 15, 2014, 09:36:20 PM
All right, I'm on the final song.  I say as a whole, it works, but, man, there's a lot to take in.  Repentance and The Root of All Evil was pretty good, the two songs before it?  Not really my cup of tea.  The Shattered Fortress is off to a decent start, backup vocals otherwise.

I'm not too beat about it if they would never play it in its entirety, though.
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: jammindude on May 15, 2014, 09:38:13 PM
Has anyone actually listened to the songs in a row? Do they even work as a cohesive set of songs that you could call a suite?

Well, I'm going to listen to it now and, after an hour, I'll see if it works or not.

I actually have a mix that crossfades the entire thing into a single piece. It's also got The Mirror at the beginning (which I've mixed with the ending of Lie, so it comes out exactly like the LSFNY version)

It's one of my favorite DT discs.  :tup
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: BlobVanDam on May 15, 2014, 09:48:56 PM
Has anyone actually listened to the songs in a row? Do they even work as a cohesive set of songs that you could call a suite?

Of course it does. How would it not be a suite? It actually works a lot better as a whole suite than you'd think. It's just as cohesive as say AMBI.
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: hefdaddy42 on May 16, 2014, 06:20:13 AM
Yeah, it works.  But man, it's a lot.  I am not normally in the mood for something like that.
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: Kotowboy on May 16, 2014, 06:50:38 AM
Has anyone actually listened to the songs in a row? Do they even work as a cohesive set of songs that you could call a suite?

Of course it does. How would it not be a suite? It actually works a lot better as a whole suite than you'd think. It's just as cohesive as say AMBI.

It definitely works better than A Change Of Seasons.
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: hefdaddy42 on May 16, 2014, 07:04:02 AM
Not in any way, shape, or form.
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: kirksnosehair on May 16, 2014, 07:38:46 AM
Yeah, I don't get that either  ???
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: ? on May 16, 2014, 08:00:14 AM
Has anyone actually listened to the songs in a row? Do they even work as a cohesive set of songs that you could call a suite?
Of course it does. How would it not be a suite? It actually works a lot better as a whole suite than you'd think. It's just as cohesive as say AMBI.
It definitely works better than A Change Of Seasons.
lol
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: Zook on May 16, 2014, 09:34:09 AM
It could only be completely his if he wrote the music too. Nice try, Geoff.
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: bosk1 on May 16, 2014, 11:07:18 AM
Side question: is Mike Mangini capable of composing a piece like that?

I don't see why he couldn't, disregarding of course the fact that he probably would not want to.
I think people sometimes like to elevate the 12SS to this glorious magnum opus of Mike Portnoy, as if the whole thing was this grandiose thing that is the epitome of his artistic work. To qquote The Man himself: "Upon finishing the Suite in 2009, he reflected that he had "dug [himself] into a hole with it. It was a nice idea seven years ago... After a while it became like an obligation hanging over my head, like a homework assignment." He said that he "didn't know if [he] would have done it" if he knew how big the Suite was going to be: "If I had realized what I was getting myself into five albums ago... I think maybe I would have written one song that encompassed all twelve steps"

While there are good parts to the 12SS, it is so massively bloated and forcefully self-referential that I have no desire to see it live in its entirety.

Excellent post, every word of it.  I actually like it as a whole piece, but similarly to how Mike felt about composing it, it does just get very cumbersome as it grinds on.  I like most of the songs that compose it, but even to take The Glass Prison as an example, I LOVE that song, but it still suffers by having a few parts that wear on for just a bit too long.  To me, that is amplified in other songs later in the suite.  I think the whole thing could have been a bit better if Mike and the guys had realized early on that it would benefit from making some of the parts more concise and focused, and not worrying as much at the end about reprising everything that had come before.  But c'est la vie. 

Has anyone actually listened to the songs in a row? Do they even work as a cohesive set of songs that you could call a suite?

I have, actually. I found I liked Repentance more in the context of the suite. It's a nice little break from heavier songwriting (TGP, TDS, TROAE) and bridges the gap between the first 3 songs and TSF's summary of the suite nicely. I'd say it actrually works pretty well.

Same here.  But for the reasons mentioned above, I am like most others in that I rarely listen to the whole thing. 
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: Dublagent66 on May 16, 2014, 11:34:47 AM
"the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."  Yeah, he said that about DT too.  I would say mostly his concept but not completely.  Lyrically, yeah 100% but he couldn't have done it without the artistic contributions from the others.  So, I have a problem when he says "completely".

I have the entire suite on 1 CD.  Also, have a 12SS playlist but haven't listened to it in it's entirety for quite some time.  TBH, the whole thing got rather old.  The only reason I'd go back and listen to it straight through is for old times sake.

Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: rumborak on May 16, 2014, 11:55:30 AM
Excellent post, every word of it.  I actually like it as a whole piece, but similarly to how Mike felt about composing it, it does just get very cumbersome as it grinds on.  I like most of the songs that compose it, but even to take The Glass Prison as an example, I LOVE that song, but it still suffers by having a few parts that wear on for just a bit too long.  To me, that is amplified in other songs later in the suite.  I think the whole thing could have been a bit better if Mike and the guys had realized early on that it would benefit from making some of the parts more concise and focused, and not worrying as much at the end about reprising everything that had come before.  But c'est la vie. 

I think had MP stuck around, what they could have done is to spend some time on all the songs, and then maybe create an "abridged 12SS" that maybe only focuses on the unique and "salient" parts of each song. So, e.g. heavily cut down the stretched end part of TGP, cut down the "aaah" part of TSF etc. I think frankly, you could bring it down to 30 minutes, and you would have an epic of density and awesomeness to the level of ACOS.
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: Dublagent66 on May 16, 2014, 03:20:12 PM
Yeah, that makes sense and might have worked.  I just went back and checked it out on my playlist (for old times sake).  I like the songs individually rather than strung together.  Although, the abrupt transition between the end of TGP and beginning of TDS is kinda cool.  Still, I go back and listen to ACOS and it's just flatout awesome.  12SS really doesn't even come close.  If MP wants to be really proud of something, ACOS should've been it.
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: orcus116 on May 16, 2014, 04:37:46 PM
Has anyone actually listened to the songs in a row? Do they even work as a cohesive set of songs that you could call a suite?

Of course it does. How would it not be a suite? It actually works a lot better as a whole suite than you'd think. It's just as cohesive as say AMBI.

Of course? It's a set of songs written in five separate song writing sessions instead of together. Sure they share some variations on riffs and the same general theme but just by picturing them individually in my head I can't imagine them really flowing together except for maybe TGP and TDS.
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: Ben_Jamin on May 16, 2014, 05:02:41 PM
I'm interested in how they wouldve transitioned TDS-> TROAE and so on. It sounds quite odd with them being differently produced and mixed, so I bet it would have sounded better live.
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: TAC on May 16, 2014, 05:10:39 PM
Excellent post, every word of it.  I actually like it as a whole piece, but similarly to how Mike felt about composing it, it does just get very cumbersome as it grinds on.  I like most of the songs that compose it, but even to take The Glass Prison as an example, I LOVE that song, but it still suffers by having a few parts that wear on for just a bit too long.  To me, that is amplified in other songs later in the suite.  I think the whole thing could have been a bit better if Mike and the guys had realized early on that it would benefit from making some of the parts more concise and focused, and not worrying as much at the end about reprising everything that had come before.  But c'est la vie. 

I think had MP stuck around, what they could have done is to spend some time on all the songs, and then maybe create an "abridged 12SS" that maybe only focuses on the unique and "salient" parts of each song. So, e.g. heavily cut down the stretched end part of TGP, cut down the "aaah" part of TSF etc. I think frankly, you could bring it down to 30 minutes, and you would have an epic of density and awesomeness to the level of ACOS.

That's an interesting thought.
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: Kotowboy on May 16, 2014, 05:38:17 PM
Has anyone actually listened to the songs in a row? Do they even work as a cohesive set of songs that you could call a suite?
Of course it does. How would it not be a suite? It actually works a lot better as a whole suite than you'd think. It's just as cohesive as say AMBI.
It definitely works better than A Change Of Seasons.
lol

LOL
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: orcus116 on May 16, 2014, 05:56:38 PM
I'm interested in how they wouldve transitioned TDS-> TROAE and so on. It sounds quite odd with them being differently produced and mixed, so I bet it would have sounded better live.

Live gives you the ability to segway a little more fluidly.
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: Grizz on May 16, 2014, 07:10:03 PM
Yeah, that makes sense and might have worked.  I just went back and checked it out on my playlist (for old times sake).  I like the songs individually rather than strung together.  Although, the abrupt transition between the end of TGP and beginning of TDS is kinda cool.  Still, I go back and listen to ACOS and it's just flatout awesome.  12SS really doesn't even come close.  If MP wants to be really proud of something, ACOS should've been it.
I think that ACoS had more input from the others than 12SS though.
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: As I Am on May 16, 2014, 09:39:06 PM
https://www.blabbermouth.net/news/mike-portnoy-weighs-in-on-queensryche-settlement-calls-it-the-right-outcome/

What about the fans MP that followed you and DT throughout this suite? Did you think of htem before making such a statement? However... your thoughts?

As always, MP makes perfect sense. I could totally see it being heartbreaking if DT did the 12SS without him, but honestly, I think DT has too much character to do that anyway.
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: BlobVanDam on May 16, 2014, 10:27:44 PM
Has anyone actually listened to the songs in a row? Do they even work as a cohesive set of songs that you could call a suite?

Of course it does. How would it not be a suite? It actually works a lot better as a whole suite than you'd think. It's just as cohesive as say AMBI.

Of course? It's a set of songs written in five separate song writing sessions instead of together. Sure they share some variations on riffs and the same general theme but just by picturing them individually in my head I can't imagine them really flowing together except for maybe TGP and TDS.

Have you ever actually listened to them together to even judge it as a whole? It works well.
AMBI is on the same album, and that doesn't even flow very well as a suite. It literally just cuts off on Voices and starts TSM, despite sharing the musical ideas throughout.
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: rumborak on May 16, 2014, 10:33:41 PM
I have actually listened to it once, but the transitions weren't the problem. It's that it drags too much, and the self-references are cool when you haven't heard the reference in a long time, but when the thing just happened 3 minutes earlier, it gets old.
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: BlobVanDam on May 16, 2014, 10:39:39 PM
It wouldn't be much of a suite if there was nothing to musically tie it together. ???
The only time the reusing of musical themes becomes at all a problem for me is TSF, which does just feel like a medley, rather than just using the same musical themes, but even that surprisingly works better than expected as a whole. Still a very flawed song/section though.
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: ? on May 16, 2014, 11:34:10 PM
I wonder what the transition from TDS to TROAE would've been like live. I remember hearing a fan remix where the ending of TDS goes straight into the main riff of TROAE and that might've been a good transition, but the songs are in different tunings so JP would've had to switch guitars between the songs.
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: BlobVanDam on May 16, 2014, 11:38:36 PM
I wonder what the transition from TDS to TROAE would've been like live. I remember hearing a fan remix where the ending of TDS goes straight into the main riff of TROAE and that might've been a good transition, but the songs are in different tunings so JP would've had to switch guitars between the songs.

I always believed the intro would have remained intact as time for JP to switch guitars. I think that was probably planned that way.
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: robwebster on May 17, 2014, 05:26:12 AM
I have actually listened to it once, but the transitions weren't the problem. It's that it drags too much, and the self-references are cool when you haven't heard the reference in a long time, but when the thing just happened 3 minutes earlier, it gets old.
Ahhh, if it's good enough for Awake and Scenes from a Memory! Self-references used to be DT's golf - Space-Dye Vest isn't far from the Mirror quote, and The Mirror reprise itself comes only about three minutes after the original song ended.

I think the only issue with playing it live would be the intensity - and even then, it's just The Glass Prison and This Dying Soul sitting back to back. It's currently structured a bit like...

1. Heavy
2. Heavy
3. Rock
4. Brooding
5. Heavy

Switch that to...

1. Heavy
2. Psychedelic
3. Rock
4. Brooding
5. Heavy

And it's a bit more diverse - but was never going to happen, not with Six Degrees and Train of Thought back to back! This Dying Soul's got a few psychedelic elements, that chorus is lush. Even now, though, I don't think it'd take much to sustain an audience's interest. If they can make their visual show as strong as it has been on this tour, if they can really tell a story musically and visually, I see no reason the Twelve Step Suite wouldn't be absolutely stellar in a live environment. Always used to sit on the side of, "That's... quite a long suite," but on the heels of this tour I think they could, and would want to, do it justice.
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: hefdaddy42 on May 17, 2014, 06:21:42 AM
I like all 5 songs (some more than others), but I think that bloating is a problem common to 4 of the 5.  TROAE feels about right, but all of the others are just too long, so sitting through the whole thing would be a chore for me.

But I would be absolutely shocked if the current lineup ever played the entire suite in one sitting.
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: Madman Shepherd on May 17, 2014, 11:11:09 AM


As always, MP makes perfect sense. I could totally see it being heartbreaking if DT did the 12SS without him, but honestly, I think DT has too much character to do that anyway.

Too much character but more than that, practically zero interest I suspect...
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: TheGreatPretender on May 17, 2014, 01:06:03 PM


As always, MP makes perfect sense. I could totally see it being heartbreaking if DT did the 12SS without him, but honestly, I think DT has too much character to do that anyway.

Too much character but more than that, practically zero interest I suspect...

Yeah, this. I'm really glad they're performing the songs individually though.

As for the subject at hand, I'm not a fan of the whole, "this is my baby and that's not my baby" crap. If a song was written and released by a band, then the song should belong to the band. Period. Which is why I think it's totally fair that they're playing Space-Dye Vest, even though it wasn't only KM's concept and his 'baby', but he wrote the whole thing from beginning to end. Which, I highly doubt MP wrote every note of the 12SS and came up with all the riffs all by himself.

The situation with Queensryche was different because Tate was actively battling for the retention of the Queensryche band name, so they were basically fighting for the ownership of the band, and giving him OMC and OMC2 was kind of like the consolation prize for not getting the rights to the band name Queensryche. It's a completely different situation than when someone leaves a band of their own accord, and the band still stays together and finds a replacement member. If the band says, "We want to stay together and continue recording, and we don't even want you to leave the band," and the member says, "Well, too bad, I'm leaving anyway," then I think they're in no position to say, "And I'm taking this song and that song with me, so you can't play them anymore, and I can." Which, granted, MP didn't do, but now he says he should have, and I think that would've been a dick move, if he did do it.
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: Tis BOOLsheet on May 17, 2014, 07:41:16 PM
Honestly, even if MP were still in the band, I doubt the entire suite (in full length) would be performed in one night. That is asking a lot of your bandmates, not to mention the audience. Correct me if I am wrong, but there has not been overwhelming sustained interest to hear this thing in it's entirety in one night.

Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: rumborak on May 17, 2014, 10:02:42 PM
Who knows how the other guys feel about the 12SS anyway. Keep in mind that for 5 straight albums they got roped into this thing, with a fifth of each album being consumed by it. If MP got tired of it by the end, I can only assume some of the others were even more so. I remember doing a big sigh of relief when BCSL came out, because that meant the 12SS was finally done with.
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: BlobVanDam on May 17, 2014, 11:15:04 PM
They've continued to play a song from the 12SS on each tour since MP left so far (TROAE , TSF), including one that hasn't been played before and not particularly popular. MP got tired of it because he had to come up with lyrical contributions that fitted a specific, narrow "step". Musically, I don't see that it would be any more tiring than writing any other song. If anything, it would be a bit easier, because you have a starting point already.

As you said, who knows how the other guys feel about the 12SS. I think some people just want to believe that DT don't much like it, when there's no real evidence for that.
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: theseoafs on May 18, 2014, 09:28:13 AM
MP got tired of it because he had to come up with lyrical contributions that fitted a specific, narrow "step". Musically, I don't see that it would be any more tiring than writing any other song. If anything, it would be a bit easier, because you have a starting point already.

Eh.  Remember Tom Sawyer:  work is whatever a body is obliged to do.  It may not have been super thrilling for the band to churn out all those reprises, rehash all those riffs, when other musical ideas may have seemed more interesting to them.  Of course, that would be pure speculation, because the only one who has talked about regretting the 12SS is MP himself.

I think some people just want to believe that DT don't much like it, when there's no real evidence for that.

Common theme on the forum these days.  "DT probably doesn't like the 12SS very much."  "DT thinks that Raw Dog sucks."  "DT probably hates You Not Me themselves."  Really, people just want to believe the band's musical taste is equivalent to their own.
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: hefdaddy42 on May 18, 2014, 10:03:29 AM
Common theme on the forum these days.  "DT probably doesn't like the 12SS very much."  "DT thinks that Raw Dog sucks."  "DT probably hates You Not Me themselves."  Really, people just want to believe the band's musical taste is equivalent to their own.
I think there is more evidence for B and C there than there is for A (for which there is none).
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: robwebster on May 18, 2014, 11:13:48 AM
There's not really evidence for any of them, though, is there?

Arguably a bit of evidence for C, we know Mike Portnoy didn't like You Not Me (or You Or Me), but he's gone now - John Petrucci loved rewriting You Or Me, he learned loads from Desmond Child and was completely on board with the label's vision; he's historically been far more positive than the fanbase of the time were. Raw Dog, we don't really know anything about either way, but absence of evidence isn't evidence of absence. They've not played it, but they've not been rotating setlists since they started, and it'd hardly be a priority - I think the idea of the band hating their own music is a bit of a message board fantasy.
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: tiagodon on May 18, 2014, 12:13:24 PM
There's not really evidence for any of them, though, is there?

Arguably a bit of evidence for C, we know Mike Portnoy didn't like You Not Me (or You Or Me), but he's gone now - John Petrucci loved rewriting You Or Me, he learned loads from Desmond Child and was completely on board with the label's vision; he's historically been far more positive than the fanbase of the time were. Raw Dog, we don't really know anything about either way, but absence of evidence isn't evidence of absence. They've not played it, but they've not been rotating setlists since they started, and it'd hardly be a priority - I think the idea of the band hating their own music is a bit of a message board fantasy.

Well... I have a band. I've been playing with bands and doing some gigs for almost 8 years now. Sometimes I have to play and accept material brought by the other members of the band just because I'm in a band. It's like a marriage. You have to let go sometimes for the greater good. Yes, I have to play stuff I don't like. If we are 5 in a band, maybe 2 think that way and 3 like the material. I can't say "the band", as a whole, likes or dislikes this or that. For each DT song, it would be reasonable to assume that maybe at least one of them don't like the song.
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: The Letter M on May 18, 2014, 12:17:19 PM
There's not really evidence for any of them, though, is there?

Arguably a bit of evidence for C, we know Mike Portnoy didn't like You Not Me (or You Or Me), but he's gone now - John Petrucci loved rewriting You Or Me, he learned loads from Desmond Child and was completely on board with the label's vision; he's historically been far more positive than the fanbase of the time were. Raw Dog, we don't really know anything about either way, but absence of evidence isn't evidence of absence. They've not played it, but they've not been rotating setlists since they started, and it'd hardly be a priority - I think the idea of the band hating their own music is a bit of a message board fantasy.

Well... I have a band. I've been playing with bands and doing some gigs for almost 8 years now. Sometimes I have to play and accept material brought by the other members of the band just because I'm in a band. It's like a marriage. You have to let go sometimes for the greater good. Yes, I have to play stuff I don't like. If we are 5 in a band, maybe 2 think that way and 3 like the material. I can't say "the band", as a whole, likes or dislikes this or that. For each DT song, it would be reasonable to assume that maybe at least one of them don't like the song.

You might lose some people if you use that analogy. :lol

-Marc.
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: robwebster on May 18, 2014, 12:46:11 PM
There's not really evidence for any of them, though, is there?

Arguably a bit of evidence for C, we know Mike Portnoy didn't like You Not Me (or You Or Me), but he's gone now - John Petrucci loved rewriting You Or Me, he learned loads from Desmond Child and was completely on board with the label's vision; he's historically been far more positive than the fanbase of the time were. Raw Dog, we don't really know anything about either way, but absence of evidence isn't evidence of absence. They've not played it, but they've not been rotating setlists since they started, and it'd hardly be a priority - I think the idea of the band hating their own music is a bit of a message board fantasy.

Well... I have a band. I've been playing with bands and doing some gigs for almost 8 years now. Sometimes I have to play and accept material brought by the other members of the band just because I'm in a band. It's like a marriage. You have to let go sometimes for the greater good. Yes, I have to play stuff I don't like. If we are 5 in a band, maybe 2 think that way and 3 like the material. I can't say "the band", as a whole, likes or dislikes this or that. For each DT song, it would be reasonable to assume that maybe at least one of them don't like the song.
Oh, yeah, it's reasonable to assume they're not hot on every song - James LaBrie doesn't like New Millennium. But there's this sort of thing where people project themselves onto the band members.
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: KevShmev on May 18, 2014, 12:49:47 PM
Perhaps, but the fact that the band hasn't played You Not Me on any tour since the FII tour (and they barely played it on that one) indicates that they probably don't think much of it, otherwise they would have played it by now, especially since it doesn't have an asterisk by it like Anna Lee did when Portnoy was in the band (since he considered it a Derek song) or like Space Dye Vest (same thing, but it being a Kevin song).

They've only toured twice since the release of Raw Dog, so time will tell if they like that enough to ever play it, but I'd be surprised.
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: rumborak on May 18, 2014, 02:57:02 PM
I am 99.5% sure Raw Dog will never be performed live.
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: Scorpion on May 18, 2014, 02:59:24 PM
If MP were still in the band, I could totally see the main riff or the solo section from Raw Dog making an appearance in Instrumedley 2.0, but since the guys currently in the band don't seem to be very big on medleys (I think JP once said that he doesn't like them? Or was it JLB? Not sure.), I think the odds of Raw Dog appearing in future sets are rather slim.
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: robwebster on May 18, 2014, 04:14:09 PM
Perhaps, but the fact that the band hasn't played You Not Me on any tour since the FII tour (and they barely played it on that one) indicates that they probably don't think much of it
Well! It indicates Mike Portnoy didn't think much of it... but, we already knew that. They haven't really played Hell's Kitchen, either, Mike preferred it in Burning My Soul - doesn't mean it's got a black mark with the current lineup.

Raw Dog wouldn't be much of a priority, tucked away onto some digital EP. Agree that it's unlikely to see live play, but that doesn't necessarily mean they're unsatisfied with how it came out.
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: orcus116 on May 18, 2014, 04:22:08 PM
Most casual fans probably don't even know it exists.
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: chaotic_ripper on May 19, 2014, 03:55:33 AM
I'm sure the thing with YNM is that the band knows it's not real popular...so they don't play it.
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: Invisible on May 20, 2014, 04:13:40 AM
I've actually listened to the whole suite seven or eight times this year, and it would work wonderfully if they shortened some bits of The Glass Prison and This Dying Soul(the two more bloated ones) and the apology section of Repentance. Cut some bits and you have a killer 50 minutes epic, and I'm not even a metal fan. I always thought it was a very well done job, TROAE and Repentance provide a much needed breath of the heaviness before the big finale that is The Shattered Fortress, which only makes sense to me in the context of whole suite, the return of every part with an epic tweak has a great impact, alone by itself the song does feel like a medley and loses much of the drama. It's actually a masterwork, maybe better than A Change of Seasons(not as great as Octavarium and Six Degrees).

I think if done well, with a good stage production it can be a killer live. Too bad MP didn't stay to see it through, as they probably won't play it without him. It's one thing to play an individual song, but the whole thing does feel a little too much Portnoy to play it without him, even if it wouldn't be wrong. I always thought Roger Waters was a dick for what he did, even if The Wall was his idea. I know this is not the same, as Waters also wrote most of the music by himself, the ones he didn't he didn't win the exclusive rights for, namely Another Brick In The Wall Part II, Hey You, Comfortably Numb, Run Like Hell, and I think Young Lust(too lazy to look it up).
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: Setlist Scotty on May 20, 2014, 01:22:11 PM
As I said in another thread, I wouldn't be surprised in the least bit that if DT were to perform the whole 12 Step Suite, that it would come off much better than many people here imagine it would, just as TSF is much better live than many people here thought it would be, before they started performing it. That said, I can't imagine them doing the suite all the way thru unless at some future point MP were to rejoin them, and right now I can't see that happening.
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: tiagodon on May 20, 2014, 01:52:13 PM
DT is going to perform The 12 Step Suite on the first gig after the glorious return of Mr. Portnoy! God has spoken!
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: JayOctavarium on May 20, 2014, 01:58:48 PM
So they're never playing it? Good to know.
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: Dublagent66 on May 20, 2014, 02:35:42 PM
Yeah, that's right around the same day hell freezes over.
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: JayOctavarium on May 20, 2014, 02:37:05 PM
lol




And the day Petrucci renounces his carnivorism.
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: The Dark Master on May 20, 2014, 03:01:03 PM
I think the band likes the songs in the 12SS just fine, they simply have no interesting in playing it live in it's entirety.  It's nearly an hour from start to finish, that is a huge chunk of concert time that could be spent playing material from a much wider selection of their cataloge with a much more dynamic variety (except for Repentance, all of the 12SS songs are lengthy balls to the wall prog metal shred-frests).  As has already been stated, since MP left they have played a song from the suite at most of their concerts, so I don't think anyone in the band has a problem with the songs.  It's just with MP gone, there really is no one in the band motivated to play the whole thing all at once.

As for Raw Dog, that was pretty much a throw-away track that they did for a promo EP for a video game (not even for the game itself).  If that never gets played life, it will most likely be because no one really cares about the song.  Hell, I would not be surprised if some of them forgot they even wrote and recorded Raw Dog.
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: Rodni Demental on May 20, 2014, 03:44:28 PM
I think an abridged version would have been the way to go. Turn it into something the length of Six Degrees then it's just a tiny bit more viable for a setlist. I mean, they're using chunks of set for selective/abridged parts of albums right now so it's not like it's necessarily the most impractical concept to play. I suppose it's a matter of one of the members actually desiring to make this happen, because I'm guessing MP would have been more the man to abridge the suite as he was the one originally arranging the pieces.
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: JayOctavarium on May 20, 2014, 05:45:06 PM
I still say just play The Glass Prison and The Shattered Fortress back to back... maybe with a few minutes of an overture of other 12SS riffs and what not either before TGP or in between the two.


Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: Cable on May 31, 2014, 03:18:53 PM
My favorite transition is from Repentence to TSF. Although not the most natural, it sounds great. I cut the first 20 seconds of the instrumental TSF intro and placed it instead of the normal TSF, as the instrumental starts full volume instead of the fade in. It hits so hard after the more laid back ending of Repentence.
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: RaiseTheKnife on May 31, 2014, 05:06:48 PM
I am in 100% accord with  ^THIS ^

That was my first impression when I listened to TSF.
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: Kotowboy on June 01, 2014, 06:04:57 AM
DT is going to perform The 12 Step Suite on the first gig after the glorious return of Mr. Portnoy! God has spoken!

Some people still think he's coming back one day ? :lol
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: Super Dude on June 01, 2014, 09:20:09 AM
Babies.
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: BlueRoseOrchestra on June 01, 2014, 11:03:51 AM

But I mostly wanted to say; I think some of you guys are understating the relevance of the drum patterns in the composition. It's something Nearl Peart said that left an impression on me, and it's something I am inclined to agree with, I wouldn't quote me directly, but it was along the lines of: [i]Drums are usually the subject of rock music, they don't have to be, but more often than not, the drums are the key ingredient and basis for the progression and movement of the song. Also, we practically universally use the subject of the kick and the snare to define and separate aspects of the music, and the cymbalwork is the glue that holds the focal points of that rhythm together. Lyrics are another rhythmic aspect of the music, because the structure and annunciation of the word is what determines which beats are emphasised by the phrasing of the lyrics. This shows that lyrics play an integral role in the rhythm and structure of a song, equally as much as they determine the lead melody (which is what we normally assume as the primary role of vocals). [/i]

it all boiled down to that the drums are only like the basic structures of songs. drums, rhythms or simply beats are the subject of music in general and not just rock in particular. the time signatures holds the music and keeps it in place. w/o the vital ingredients a series of time signature bars or drum sections are just hollow structures with no functions.  guitars, keyboards or even bass, can create main melodies, but drums serves to hold them in place. Mangini was clever enough to apply the complex patterns towards Petrucci and Rudess' melodies. as i recall Petrucci has said for the current album the members picked each song they feel close to for writing the lyrics which means the vocal melodies were already composed be4 lyrics were written, i dunno if thats correct to assume for all of their previous albums. James wrote quite a few lyrics for the songs but does that mean he wrote the vocal or main melodies of the songs?

It seems that as a drummer and a lyricist he's established a very profound understanding of the relationship between these functions in music composition and he could describe this idea far more elegantly than my attempt. But part of my point is, a bunch of you guys seem to be discounting drums from the composition to a certain extent. I mean a drummer doesn't (traditionally) write chord progressions or melodies based on scales, but they do determine the mood and lay a basis for other subjects within the music to fit. Also, a drummer is normally more aware of the arrangement of a piece than anyone else because their sections are based on differing phrases of bars for each section or movement. Melodic instruments and singers have phrasing too, but to different effect, and normally with the drumming as a basis or foundation. And some of the motifs and progressions made by JR/JP wouldn't have been generated without the drumbeat that gave them the foundation for some of those ideas. I'm obviously assuming that they write as a group and so the would have bounced ideas off of each other like this. Of course not to say that any one individual member couldn't have come up with an idea on their own and tried to integrate it into the compositions, but I'm betting that most of the time the ideas are spontaneous, and naturally form and grow from each others ideas.

i dont get the impression that anybody here is attempting or implying to discount Portnoy's input as a drummer and lyricist. each member excluding Myung has had their own side projects and even James composed the music on his solo albums. in all the projects Portnoy's involved, from Transatlantic, Flying Colors to the current Winery Dogs, the music were composed as a group similar to Dream Theater style. there isn't any evidence of him writing an entire piece all by himself or has done solo albums like Petrucci and Rudess. drumming as the foundation only provides the basic layout. and no doubt Portnoy developed and arranged it into complex patterns. but ADToE was still written w/o drum parts and was later programmed by Petrucci and then added inputs from Mangini.



Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: hefdaddy42 on June 01, 2014, 03:33:31 PM
Myung has had side projects, and AFAIK, JLB doesn't actually compose very much on his solo albums.
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: BlueRoseOrchestra on June 01, 2014, 06:06:37 PM
Myung has had side projects, and AFAIK, JLB doesn't actually compose very much on his solo albums.

yes i have completely put those behind my mind since they are not currently active.
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: jmasterx on June 01, 2014, 06:25:02 PM
2022 tour (20th anniversary of the first 12ss song) or 2019 tour (10th anniversary of finishing 12ss)  might seem appropriate to play it with Portnoy in a one off show.
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: Ravenfoul on June 02, 2014, 03:51:32 PM
2022 tour (20th anniversary of the first 12ss song) or 2019 tour (10th anniversary of finishing 12ss)  might seem appropriate to play it with Portnoy in a one off show.
Yeah, but aside from 'would they want to' would they even know or recognize those as actual things? In my mind I'm thinking probably no.
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: rumborak on June 02, 2014, 05:42:19 PM
I'd be rather surprised if DT was still around in 2022.
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: TAC on June 02, 2014, 05:51:39 PM
I'd be rather surprised if DT was still around in 2022.

You think so?
It's only 7 1/2 years away.
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: The Letter M on June 02, 2014, 05:55:24 PM
I'd be rather surprised if DT was still around in 2022.

You think so?
It's only 7 1/2 years away.

Well, given their ages, I'd say 2020/2022 would be their limit. If they stay on schedule with little deviation, they'd have 3 to 4 more studio albums in that time, getting us to Studio Album #15 or 16. I'd say that's a pretty big achievement.

Does anyone know when their current contract with RoadRunner Records runs out? That might be a good indicator as to when they may throw in the towel. I mean 2015 will (likely) see the band's 13th album as well as their 30th anniversary. 2020 would see the band's 35th anniversary, and possibly a tour on their 15th album. A lot of landmarks going on here, so I don't see them quitting until at LEAST 2021 or 2022.

-Marc.
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: rumborak on June 02, 2014, 06:44:43 PM
I'd be rather surprised if DT was still around in 2022.

You think so?
It's only 7 1/2 years away.

I personally think they're on the home stretch, yeah. Before DT12 came out, I made the prediction "two more after this one", and I think that's still the case (I.e. two more albums total).
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: theseoafs on June 02, 2014, 06:50:09 PM
2022 tour (20th anniversary of the first 12ss song) or 2019 tour (10th anniversary of finishing 12ss)  might seem appropriate to play it with Portnoy in a one off show.

Yeah, and 2016 would be the most appropriate year for DT to release a concept album about George W. Bush's presidency, given that that year will be his 70th birthday.  Doesn't mean it's going to happen.
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: Sir Walrus Cauliflower on June 02, 2014, 07:19:05 PM
2022 tour (20th anniversary of the first 12ss song) or 2019 tour (10th anniversary of finishing 12ss)  might seem appropriate to play it with Portnoy in a one off show.

Yeah, and 2016 would be the most appropriate year for DT to release a concept album about George W. Bush's presidency, given that that year will be his 70th birthday.  Doesn't mean it's going to happen.

I'd buy it.

But seriously, they've already devoted half their setlist this tour to playing albums that had anniversaries, and the 12SS seems to be considered a pretty important piece from what I see on sites other than this. I doubt the Portnoy thing will ever happen, but the celebrating the 12SS anniversary doesn't seem too far fetched.
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: tiagodon on June 03, 2014, 07:31:35 AM
Steven Tyler is almost 70 years old and the man is still rockin like a teenager!
DT performances are so at ease. They barely move on stage. They can go on till they are in their 80s!
Of course it wouldn´t be healthy to play gigs night after night. Maybe one per week...
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: rumborak on June 03, 2014, 08:54:08 AM
I was listening/watching several early DT videos a while ago, and JP's playing was insanely fluid, with the most difficult runs having perfect definition and clarity. I can't say that is still the case these days. A lot of his fast runs just "run together" for a lack of a better term.
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: ZirconBlue on June 03, 2014, 02:46:44 PM
I was listening/watching several early DT videos a while ago, and JP's playing was insanely fluid, with the most difficult runs having perfect definition and clarity. I can't say that is still the case these days. A lot of his fast runs just "run together" for a lack of a better term.

George Lynch talks about how eventually his body-building interfered with his playing.  I don't know if JP's been doing it enough to have similar issues.
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: TheGreatPretender on June 03, 2014, 04:18:07 PM
Of course it wouldn´t be healthy to play gigs night after night.

They'll play every event. They'll be forever in the stage lights.
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: Grizz on June 03, 2014, 07:17:55 PM
Over and over, scene by scene,
Like a recurring nightmare cinema machine. (DT vs. DT?)
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: Mosh on June 03, 2014, 09:33:13 PM
My favorite transition is from Repentence to TSF. Although not the most natural, it sounds great. I cut the first 20 seconds of the instrumental TSF intro and placed it instead of the normal TSF, as the instrumental starts full volume instead of the fade in. It hits so hard after the more laid back ending of Repentence.
On my edit, I start the fade in for TSF as soon as the "Truth is the truth" line comes in. Works seamlessly. :)
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: Super Dude on June 03, 2014, 09:35:18 PM
For their sakes, I hope they throw in the towel by 2022. And have a final farewell show with MP or KM.
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: robwebster on June 04, 2014, 12:41:30 AM
Rush are 15 years John Petrucci's senior, and they're still going. He won't be the age Alex and Geddy are now 'til 2028, and Rush don't look like they're hanging it up any time soon. They're career musicians, and they love their job.

Jordan Rudess would turn 72, in 2028! I wouldn't be surprised if he wanted to get out of metal by then. But 2022 seems like a pretty arbitrary place to stop. They're aging, as we all are - not fossilising.
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: Madman Shepherd on June 04, 2014, 12:48:55 PM
I think I remember in an interview they even said they have at least 3 more albums in them, signifying that they have indeed thought about calling it a day sometime in the next ten years or so. 

Even then, I doubt they will necessarily have a farewell tour.  They may just scale things back.  Still record albums and do abbreviated tours.  Even then, touring is EXPENSIVE!  This last tour, I think I counted 3 semi trucks and at least two tour buses.  You need to have long tours to turn a profit. 



For their sakes, I hope they throw in the towel by 2022. And have a final farewell show with MP or KM.

Mike Portnoy said that in retrospect, he was glad Kevin Moore turned down the invitation to perform at the Score concert because then it would have been all about him and not the band.  Using Portnoy's reasoning, I doubt they will have a farewell show with MP or KM. 
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: rumborak on June 04, 2014, 12:51:49 PM
I think any statement by MP regarding KM has to be taken with this (https://www.ranchcity.com/assets/images/products/SBH--METAL.jpg).
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: ? on June 04, 2014, 12:55:13 PM
I think two or three more albums is a realistic expectation. I can't see DT carrying on after Jordan turns 65, unless he gets replaced with a younger keyboardist.
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: Madman Shepherd on June 04, 2014, 01:02:33 PM
I think any statement by MP regarding KM has to be taken with this (https://www.ranchcity.com/assets/images/products/SBH--METAL.jpg).

A salt lick? 
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: Madman Shepherd on June 04, 2014, 01:04:07 PM
I think two or three more albums is a realistic expectation. I can't see DT carrying on after Jordan turns 65, unless he gets replaced with a younger keyboardist.

I just saw Philip Glass in concert and he is 77.  Granted, his touring schedule is not nearly as brutal as Dream Theater's BUT I think DT would choose a reduced schedule over replacing Jordan. 
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: rumborak on June 04, 2014, 01:37:01 PM
I can totally see Jordan wanting to branch out more in his late career. Maybe play some classical concerts, have weirdo über-prog projects etc.
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: Another_Won on June 04, 2014, 01:53:43 PM
I think any statement by MP regarding KM has to be taken with this (https://www.ranchcity.com/assets/images/products/SBH--METAL.jpg).

A salt lick?
:lol  . . . with a [huge] grain of salt.  The picture does it more justice than just saying it.
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: Madman Shepherd on June 04, 2014, 02:39:02 PM
I think any statement by MP regarding KM has to be taken with this (https://www.ranchcity.com/assets/images/products/SBH--METAL.jpg).

A salt lick?
:lol  . . . with a [huge] grain of salt.  The picture does it more justice than just saying it.

But....thats not one big grain of salt, that is several thousand grains of salt lumped together. 

#literalwednesday #imjustbeinganasshole #hashtag
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: haceeb on June 04, 2014, 03:09:57 PM
https://www.blabbermouth.net/news/mike-portnoy-weighs-in-on-queensryche-settlement-calls-it-the-right-outcome/

What about the fans MP that followed you and DT throughout this suite? Did you think of htem before making such a statement? However... your thoughts?
Yes, what about us? I think he only cares about his ego.
Q: Why you aren't down to earth? MP: Eff off.
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: Grizz on June 04, 2014, 05:25:36 PM
I think any statement by MP regarding KM has to be taken with this (https://www.ranchcity.com/assets/images/products/SBH--METAL.jpg).

A salt lick?
:lol  . . . with a [huge] grain of salt.  The picture does it more justice than just saying it.

But....thats not one big grain of salt, that is several thousand grains of salt lumped together. 

#literalwednesday #imjustbeinganasshole #hashtag
Isn't every grain of salt several thousand grains of salt lumped together?
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: Madman Shepherd on June 04, 2014, 06:06:02 PM
I think any statement by MP regarding KM has to be taken with this (https://www.ranchcity.com/assets/images/products/SBH--METAL.jpg).

A salt lick?
:lol  . . . with a [huge] grain of salt.  The picture does it more justice than just saying it.

But....thats not one big grain of salt, that is several thousand grains of salt lumped together. 

#literalwednesday #imjustbeinganasshole #hashtag
Isn't every grain of salt several thousand grains of salt lumped together?

I got a C- in high school chemistry...and that was a very lenient teacher so I am not the man to ask. 
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: Rodni Demental on June 04, 2014, 08:02:20 PM
Sorry for large post, I would have trimmed the quotes but just wanted to retain context.


But I mostly wanted to say; I think some of you guys are understating the relevance of the drum patterns in the composition. It's something Nearl Peart said that left an impression on me, and it's something I am inclined to agree with, I wouldn't quote me directly, but it was along the lines of: [i]Drums are usually the subject of rock music, they don't have to be, but more often than not, the drums are the key ingredient and basis for the progression and movement of the song. Also, we practically universally use the subject of the kick and the snare to define and separate aspects of the music, and the cymbalwork is the glue that holds the focal points of that rhythm together. Lyrics are another rhythmic aspect of the music, because the structure and annunciation of the word is what determines which beats are emphasised by the phrasing of the lyrics. This shows that lyrics play an integral role in the rhythm and structure of a song, equally as much as they determine the lead melody (which is what we normally assume as the primary role of vocals). [/i]

it all boiled down to that the drums are only like the basic structures of songs. drums, rhythms or simply beats are the subject of music in general and not just rock in particular. the time signatures holds the music and keeps it in place. w/o the vital ingredients a series of time signature bars or drum sections are just hollow structures with no functions.  guitars, keyboards or even bass, can create main melodies, but drums serves to hold them in place. Mangini was clever enough to apply the complex patterns towards Petrucci and Rudess' melodies. as i recall Petrucci has said for the current album the members picked each song they feel close to for writing the lyrics which means the vocal melodies were already composed be4 lyrics were written, i dunno if thats correct to assume for all of their previous albums. James wrote quite a few lyrics for the songs but does that mean he wrote the vocal or main melodies of the songs?

I think the subject was said as Rock music because I guess that's the type of music Rush generalise themselves with. But I think the 'subject' of music doesn't HAVE to be drums. It's just a very familiar, and ideal rhythmic device to hold other notes, progressions and melodies together. Surely there are other types of expressions that can 'hold' music together so to speak although I struggle to think of anything other than electronic/digital sounds, ie. synthetic drums. Our perception is too limited :lol But also, I wouldn't automatically assume that vocal melodies were pre-written, I figured it was a primary role for a lyricist to develop the melody. Besides, it's pretty limiting to impose words on a predetermined melody. There might be a generalised motif that is implied by the other instruments but I think composing credit is due to a vocalist who writes lyrics and determines vocal melodies, even if they're altering predetermined lines and stretching or contracting a melody to fit their words.


It seems that as a drummer and a lyricist he's established a very profound understanding of the relationship between these functions in music composition and he could describe this idea far more elegantly than my attempt. But part of my point is, a bunch of you guys seem to be discounting drums from the composition to a certain extent. I mean a drummer doesn't (traditionally) write chord progressions or melodies based on scales, but they do determine the mood and lay a basis for other subjects within the music to fit. Also, a drummer is normally more aware of the arrangement of a piece than anyone else because their sections are based on differing phrases of bars for each section or movement. Melodic instruments and singers have phrasing too, but to different effect, and normally with the drumming as a basis or foundation. And some of the motifs and progressions made by JR/JP wouldn't have been generated without the drumbeat that gave them the foundation for some of those ideas. I'm obviously assuming that they write as a group and so the would have bounced ideas off of each other like this. Of course not to say that any one individual member couldn't have come up with an idea on their own and tried to integrate it into the compositions, but I'm betting that most of the time the ideas are spontaneous, and naturally form and grow from each others ideas.

i dont get the impression that anybody here is attempting or implying to discount Portnoy's input as a drummer and lyricist. each member excluding Myung has had their own side projects and even James composed the music on his solo albums. in all the projects Portnoy's involved, from Transatlantic, Flying Colors to the current Winery Dogs, the music were composed as a group similar to Dream Theater style. there isn't any evidence of him writing an entire piece all by himself or has done solo albums like Petrucci and Rudess. drumming as the foundation only provides the basic layout. and no doubt Portnoy developed and arranged it into complex patterns. but ADToE was still written w/o drum parts and was later programmed by Petrucci and then added inputs from Mangini.

I don't think anyone was implying to discount drums or lyrics completely, but it was clear that they weren't necessarily being recognised or appreciated as the critical devices that they are, especially in a discussion about relevance of roles in composition. Because there are different methods, there are potentially imaginably unlimited possibilities to how a composition can turn out. If you reverse the roles, you can imply drum patterns by composing the other instruments first which is what happened with ADTOE. But we know this was a unique method and a first for DT at the time, and even then I still think Mike Mangini should be given more credit for his interpretations because I'm sure his patterns were more interesting and probably more creative, and certainly more real than some pre-sequenced, segmented semi-complex bee boo bops.

---

One last thing.. I can't find who said it but someone mentioned something about making assumptions based on what we would personally do, and then imposing our perception and ideas onto our own versions of JP/JR/MP etc. Well regarding Jordan; he doesn't have an age limit to when he'll stop playing keyboard... (Perhaps a part from his deathday which not even he could possibly know). Which probably means he doesn't have a limit to when he'll be done with DT. I think we've only just recently passed the halfway point and that they'll have a decent collection of about 20+ albums before it's over. At least, that's the best outcome that I'd prefer to buy into.  :angel:
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: Madman Shepherd on June 08, 2014, 06:19:03 PM
New interview with MP where he talks about his baby.  In this case, the 12SS, although DT is also his baby, as is almost anything hes done.

Also, people badmouth him as much as people badmouth Axl Rose and Geoff Tate (often by quoting him verbatim).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0c3rhzLHoZQ&feature=player_embedded
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: Madman Shepherd on June 08, 2014, 09:30:33 PM
In response to the question:  Is there still hope for a new LTE studio album to happen in the future?

Quote from: Mike Portnoy
I never say never (and in fact would do another LTE session tomorrow if the others were into it)
 
I'm pretty sure there's two other members that probably feel the same as me...sadly, I get the feeling the fourth member is not nearly as sentimental as the three of us and doesn't seem to have any interest in ever looking back...shame really...
 
I'd LOVE to be proven wrong...life's way too short for grudges...
Carpe Diem!

I hope nobody twists his words around.... :facepalm:
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: KevShmev on June 08, 2014, 09:33:56 PM
New interview with MP where he talks about his baby.  In this case, the 12SS, although DT is also his baby, as is almost anything hes done.

Also, people badmouth him as much as people badmouth Axl Rose and Geoff Tate (often by quoting him verbatim).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0c3rhzLHoZQ&feature=player_embedded

Timestamp? (for those of us who don't want to listen to the entire 19-minute interview)
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: Madman Shepherd on June 08, 2014, 10:22:14 PM
A little after the 12:00 mark
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: PetFish on June 08, 2014, 10:31:23 PM
Why the freaking hell would MP even say something like that?  What's the damn point?  Just say "I'd love to do more LTE stuff, we'll see what happens" or something.

JFC, man, seriously.
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: Setlist Scotty on June 08, 2014, 10:42:36 PM
A little after the 12:00 mark
Talking about the 12SS actually starts at about the 17:00 mark.
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: KevShmev on June 08, 2014, 11:45:21 PM
A little after the 12:00 mark
Talking about the 12SS actually starts at about the 17:00 mark.

Cool, thanks.  Interesting that he (and probably DT) isn't allowed to talk about the legal terms of their breakup.  Granted, I suspect that is standard, but it must kill him to have to keep quiet since he prides himself of telling like it is (from his point of view).
 
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: Madman Shepherd on June 09, 2014, 12:14:39 AM
A little after the 12:00 mark
Talking about the 12SS actually starts at about the 17:00 mark.

Cool, thanks.  Interesting that he (and probably DT) isn't allowed to talk about the legal terms of their breakup.  Granted, I suspect that is standard, but it must kill him to have to keep quiet since he prides himself of telling like it is (from his point of view).

Yeah it is kind of standard to have to keep it quiet which is kind of funny how Queensryche got to give a lot of the details.  I wouldnt doubt if Portnoy's was somewhat similar as far as DT having to pay out his share to him.  Unlike Queensryche, it looks like MP has to immediately stop using the DT logo or the name to advertise himself.  He also had to stop selling DT related DVDs by the 1st of the year, hence the clearance sale he had, though it worked out great for me.  I ended up picking up every drum cam he had that had a commentary with it.  I'm not really interested in his drumming necessarily but love the behind the scenes info he gave. 
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: Zook on June 09, 2014, 02:39:17 AM
Is he talking about Tony Levin? I thought he was on good terms with JP and JR. Did he have a fallout with Levin?
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: ReaPsTA on June 09, 2014, 03:04:35 AM
I hope nobody twists his words around.... :facepalm:

What's so hard about this?:

"Even though it would be weird, JP and JR would be really into it I think.  TL though is busy with his own stuff at the moment.  For me, JP, and JR, LTE is a really important and special part of our lives.  While TL certainly enjoyed the project and came back for a reunion in 2008, he doesn't feel nearly as emotionally attached to it.  He's doing a King Crimson reunion tour right now and god knows what else.  LTE isn't something he's super interested in right now."

Can I be hired to be MP's PR director?
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: MoraWintersoul on June 09, 2014, 04:15:54 AM
I haven't listened to it yet, are we absolutely sure he's talking about Levin? I think he is, by the looks of it.

What's so hard about this?:

"Even though it would be weird, JP and JR would be really into it I think.  TL though is busy with his own stuff at the moment.  For me, JP, and JR, LTE is a really important and special part of our lives.  While TL certainly enjoyed the project and came back for a reunion in 2008, he doesn't feel nearly as emotionally attached to it.  He's doing a King Crimson reunion tour right now and god knows what else.  LTE isn't something he's super interested in right now."

Can I be hired to be MP's PR director?
I'd hire you, that's so much better than what he said.

Also, they *could* get Billy Sheehan, or Sean Malone, or whomever.
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: ? on June 09, 2014, 05:26:40 AM
That LTE quote reminds me of the childish "3 DT members responded to my email, 2 didn't" tweet :facepalm: I got the impression he was referring to JP, but who knows... JP has said he's been exchanging emails with MP occasionally, but I think the scars left by the split probably haven't healed enough to make him want to work with MP yet. On the other hand, it might be that JP simply wants to concentrate on DT and use the spare time to work on his solo album.
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: nobloodyname on June 09, 2014, 06:56:57 AM
It's JP, without a shadow of a doubt.
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: mikeyd23 on June 09, 2014, 07:09:23 AM
Man, I keep trying to give MP the benefit of the doubt in these situations but he continues to make it difficult! In this same interview, he talks about honestly and how he is always honest with the fans and that sometimes his "honestly" makes some fans upset.  The problem is that there is a fine line between honestly and to much detail from his perspective. Usually, he ends up providing to much detail from his side of any given story and makes it look like he's throwing others under the bus. In this case it was either JP or TL from LTE (could be either one in my opinion), as ? pointed out in the past its been other DT members as well.

I agree that people should be honest, but there is a way to handle being honest with a little more tact. Ironically enough, I feel like JP is incredibly good at exactly that.  Telling the truth but presenting the truth with tact and leaving out details the general public doesn't need to know in order to not make others look bad who are involved in the situation.
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: phentalmyst on June 09, 2014, 07:23:00 AM
MP made mention of a grudge in that LTE post, which leads me to believe he's referring to JP, not TL.
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: KevShmev on June 09, 2014, 07:51:44 AM
I assumed he was talking about Petrucci, since Levin has never struck me as someone who has a problem revisiting the past (see: his recent tours with Peter Gabriel). 

As for being honest, like I've always said, sure, Portnoy tells it like it is, from it is always from his point of view, so it often comes across as a skewed distortion of the facts, ones that make him look as good as possible, and quite often someone else not so good.
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: Mladen on June 09, 2014, 07:53:54 AM
I thought you people commenting he was talking about Tony Levin were sarcastic. It's rather obvious to me that it's JP that's apparently ''holding grudges''.
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: gentaishinigami on June 09, 2014, 09:32:01 AM
Yeah... can't see that being about anyone but JP.

Some serious shit must have went down behind closed doors for JP to feel as burned as he has.  He seems to have gone into serious-business lawyer-up mode once MP left.  He's usually so cool and calm and seems like things don't much bother him.  Then again, who knows what kind of verbal exchanges could have gone down back during the break up.

You don't act like that just because the other guy wanted to leave.  There was some stuff going on/said that he took mega personally.  Knowing MP's complete lack of a verbal filter, that doesn't seem too unlikely of course.
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: ReaPsTA on June 09, 2014, 09:33:39 AM
Okay, so:

"Well, the reality is that right now JP isn't really into the idea.  When I left DT, JP took it especially hard.  All the sudden, he was forced to be a band leader.  This sounds cool, but I wanted to leave in part because I was tired of all the different responsibilities.  I mentioned that I can't talk about the legal side of went down, but it was obviously tough.  And, from DT's perspective, JP was the main person dealing with all that.  To me, that stuff is just business, but for JP I guess it isn't.  Me, JR, and TL I think would happily make a new LTE CD, but we can't do it without John.  I hope he comes around."
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: Madman Shepherd on June 09, 2014, 09:47:01 AM
Dude, he is totally talking about Tony Levin.  Remember when Mike mentioned in every interview that Levin's Chapman Stick was too small?  It got to the point where people were creating user names like "TinyTonysChapStick" and they had to bring in Chris Collins as a backup in case Levin refused to go on for their infamous Carnegie Hall show?

I probably fabricated that

But yeah, he is definitely talking about Petrucci.  JP used to say the standard "I've talked to Mike a few times and I wish him well."  One time he even divulged a little detail about how uncomfortable with the A7X tour which I was surprised at how candid he was.  As someone else stated, he is in big time "lawyer/legal mode" and says as little as possible now.  One of those most recent video interview with JP they brought up MP and he just said, "I just want to look to the future and not look at the past."  When they asked a followup question, he replied with the same "I just want to look to the future."  His second response was especially awkward.  Of course, despite its awkwardness, it was a far more classy answer than what MP just gave. 
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: gentaishinigami on June 09, 2014, 09:52:05 AM
Those fake PR answers are too long.  Just say:

"Well, I'm very busy lately with *insert project name* and I know the other guys are busy with *insert name*, but if things ever line up I'd love to make another LTE album."
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: puppyonacid on June 09, 2014, 09:53:47 AM
How about this for awkward

So MP, JR and JP get together for another LTE record and during rehearsals MP starts jamming some DT grooves life Home or 6:00 or whatever.

Or(!!) even worse, something from the last two albums!

I would not know where to put myself!
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: MoraWintersoul on June 09, 2014, 09:54:45 AM
Okay, so:

"Well, the reality is that right now JP isn't really into the idea.  When I left DT, JP took it especially hard.  All the sudden, he was forced to be a band leader.  This sounds cool, but I wanted to leave in part because I was tired of all the different responsibilities.  I mentioned that I can't talk about the legal side of went down, but it was obviously tough.  And, from DT's perspective, JP was the main person dealing with all that.  To me, that stuff is just business, but for JP I guess it isn't.  Me, JR, and TL I think would happily make a new LTE CD, but we can't do it without John.  I hope he comes around."

Or, how I imagine someone more like JP would phrase it:
"I'd love to do it, and will accept the call whenever I get it."

Paints him as willing and laid-back, but puts the ball in their court.
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: gentaishinigami on June 09, 2014, 09:56:30 AM
Okay, so:

"Well, the reality is that right now JP isn't really into the idea.  When I left DT, JP took it especially hard.  All the sudden, he was forced to be a band leader.  This sounds cool, but I wanted to leave in part because I was tired of all the different responsibilities.  I mentioned that I can't talk about the legal side of went down, but it was obviously tough.  And, from DT's perspective, JP was the main person dealing with all that.  To me, that stuff is just business, but for JP I guess it isn't.  Me, JR, and TL I think would happily make a new LTE CD, but we can't do it without John.  I hope he comes around."

Or, how I imagine someone more like JP would phrase it:
"I'd love to do it, and will accept the call whenever I get it."

Paints him as willing and laid-back, but puts the ball in their court.

Also not good because we're assuming JP actually doesn't want to do it as MP said, so that would allow MP to come back with "Well, I did call and he subbed me".  Gotta give an answer that says basically nothing for it to be a real pr answer!  :biggrin:

Edit: Misread, coming from MP that wouldn't be such a bad answer.
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: ReaPsTA on June 09, 2014, 09:57:57 AM
Okay, so:

"Well, the reality is that right now JP isn't really into the idea.  When I left DT, JP took it especially hard.  All the sudden, he was forced to be a band leader.  This sounds cool, but I wanted to leave in part because I was tired of all the different responsibilities.  I mentioned that I can't talk about the legal side of went down, but it was obviously tough.  And, from DT's perspective, JP was the main person dealing with all that.  To me, that stuff is just business, but for JP I guess it isn't.  Me, JR, and TL I think would happily make a new LTE CD, but we can't do it without John.  I hope he comes around."

Or, how I imagine someone more like JP would phrase it:
"I'd love to do it, and will accept the call whenever I get it."

Paints him as willing and laid-back, but puts the ball in their court.

Good alternative.

I just don't like short answers that are too obviously written by PR consultants and/or lawyers.  They come off as fake in an alienating way.
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: gentaishinigami on June 09, 2014, 09:58:44 AM
Okay, so:

"Well, the reality is that right now JP isn't really into the idea.  When I left DT, JP took it especially hard.  All the sudden, he was forced to be a band leader.  This sounds cool, but I wanted to leave in part because I was tired of all the different responsibilities.  I mentioned that I can't talk about the legal side of went down, but it was obviously tough.  And, from DT's perspective, JP was the main person dealing with all that.  To me, that stuff is just business, but for JP I guess it isn't.  Me, JR, and TL I think would happily make a new LTE CD, but we can't do it without John.  I hope he comes around."

Or, how I imagine someone more like JP would phrase it:
"I'd love to do it, and will accept the call whenever I get it."

Paints him as willing and laid-back, but puts the ball in their court.

Good alternative.

I just don't like short answers that are too obviously written by PR consultants and/or lawyers.  They come off as fake in an alienating way.

Indeed, but that's how you kinda have to give interviews so that they don't get twisted around or make you sound bad later.

MP knows this though, he just chooses not to follow it.  He basically said the above in that youtube interview.  Maybe hes a masochist and secretly enjoys it.  :P
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: Madman Shepherd on June 09, 2014, 10:16:42 AM
How about this for awkward

So MP, JR and JP get together for another LTE record and during rehearsals MP starts jamming some DT grooves life Home or 6:00 or whatever.

Or(!!) even worse, something from the last two albums!

I would not know where to put myself!

haha, I could only imagine

MP: "Hey guys, remember THIS one?!"  *plays 6:00 intro*

JP: "Yeah, Mangini played it with us on the last tour.  Sounded great."

MP: *sad face*
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: Grizz on June 09, 2014, 03:25:32 PM
How about this for awkward

So MP, JR and JP get together for another LTE record and during rehearsals MP starts jamming some DT grooves life Home or 6:00 or whatever.

Or(!!) even worse, something from the last two albums!

I would not know where to put myself!

haha, I could only imagine

MP: "Hey guys, remember THIS one?!"  *plays 6:00 intro*

JP: "Yeah, Mangini played it with us on the last tour.  Sounded great."

MP: *sad face*
What if he started playing one of the MM-era songs?
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: Madman Shepherd on June 09, 2014, 03:38:47 PM
How about this for awkward

So MP, JR and JP get together for another LTE record and during rehearsals MP starts jamming some DT grooves life Home or 6:00 or whatever.

Or(!!) even worse, something from the last two albums!

I would not know where to put myself!

haha, I could only imagine

MP: "Hey guys, remember THIS one?!"  *plays 6:00 intro*

JP: "Yeah, Mangini played it with us on the last tour.  Sounded great."

MP: *sad face*
What if he started playing one of the MM-era songs?

Well its kind of like a marriage.  If you got back with your ex would you want to look through his vacation pictures and sex tapes with their ummm, other drummer? 

:marriageanalogy:
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: Zook on June 09, 2014, 03:47:04 PM
Is it normal to have sex tapes?
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: The Letter M on June 09, 2014, 03:50:59 PM
Is it normal to have sex tapes?

Well yeah, dats and masters too.

-Marc.
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: Skeever on June 09, 2014, 04:40:43 PM
i REALLY don't see any issue with anything MP said...
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: rumborak on June 09, 2014, 05:46:09 PM
I haven't listened to it yet, are we absolutely sure he's talking about Levin? I think he is, by the looks of it.

What's so hard about this?:

"Even though it would be weird, JP and JR would be really into it I think.  TL though is busy with his own stuff at the moment.  For me, JP, and JR, LTE is a really important and special part of our lives.  While TL certainly enjoyed the project and came back for a reunion in 2008, he doesn't feel nearly as emotionally attached to it.  He's doing a King Crimson reunion tour right now and god knows what else.  LTE isn't something he's super interested in right now."

Can I be hired to be MP's PR director?
I'd hire you, that's so much better than what he said.

Also, they *could* get Billy Sheehan, or Sean Malone, or whomever.

The guy from Cheers plays bass? Who knew.
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: MoraWintersoul on June 09, 2014, 06:24:24 PM
Do I have to google that reference because I'm 21, or...?  :-\
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: Setlist Scotty on June 09, 2014, 10:12:48 PM
I haven't listened to it yet, are we absolutely sure he's talking about Levin? I think he is, by the looks of it.

What's so hard about this?:

"Even though it would be weird, JP and JR would be really into it I think.  TL though is busy with his own stuff at the moment.  For me, JP, and JR, LTE is a really important and special part of our lives.  While TL certainly enjoyed the project and came back for a reunion in 2008, he doesn't feel nearly as emotionally attached to it.  He's doing a King Crimson reunion tour right now and god knows what else.  LTE isn't something he's super interested in right now."

Can I be hired to be MP's PR director?
I'd hire you, that's so much better than what he said.

Also, they *could* get Billy Sheehan, or Sean Malone, or whomever.

The guy from Cheers plays bass? Who knew.
You clearly didn't. Sean Malone plays bass. Sam Malone on Cheers played baseball.
rumby = FAIL
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: hefdaddy42 on June 10, 2014, 12:04:37 PM
LOL

"where everybody knows your name"

"except rumby"
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: bosk1 on June 10, 2014, 12:07:06 PM
:rollin
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: Anguyen92 on June 10, 2014, 06:24:31 PM
Okay, so:

"Well, the reality is that right now JP isn't really into the idea.  When I left DT, JP took it especially hard.  All the sudden, he was forced to be a band leader.  This sounds cool, but I wanted to leave in part because I was tired of all the different responsibilities.  I mentioned that I can't talk about the legal side of went down, but it was obviously tough.  And, from DT's perspective, JP was the main person dealing with all that.  To me, that stuff is just business, but for JP I guess it isn't.  Me, JR, and TL I think would happily make a new LTE CD, but we can't do it without John.  I hope he comes around."

Or, how I imagine someone more like JP would phrase it:
"I'd love to do it, and will accept the call whenever I get it."

Paints him as willing and laid-back, but puts the ball in their court.

Also not good because we're assuming JP actually doesn't want to do it as MP said, so that would allow MP to come back with "Well, I did call and he subbed me".  Gotta give an answer that says basically nothing for it to be a real pr answer!  :biggrin:

Catching up on some of these posts, but :tup .  I thought the exact same thought you did except I thought he would say "I did call you, and you didn't pick up, you bas*ard" except he would not say bas*ard since no one says that in this scenario.
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: 425 on June 11, 2014, 08:00:18 PM
That LTE quote reminds me of the childish "3 DT members responded to my email, 2 didn't" tweet :facepalm: I got the impression he was referring to JP, but who knows... JP has said he's been exchanging emails with MP occasionally, but I think the scars left by the split probably haven't healed enough to make him want to work with MP yet. On the other hand, it might be that JP simply wants to concentrate on DT and use the spare time to work on his solo album.

I don't think this has been brought up with regard to this (and I don't want to stir the pot too much, but I think this is relevant and interesting enough to at least be worthy of brief discussion), but I think it's worth mentioning since this I think is the first clear indication we've had that things aren't okay between MP and JP: I don't remember the scenario and information surrounding that tweet—I wasn't around at the time—but is there any possibility that JP was not one of the three? I mean, I know it was assumed that the three were JP, JR and MM, but is it possible that this assumption was false and it was JR, MM and either JLB or JMX?
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: Zook on June 11, 2014, 08:07:56 PM
Considering how much shit was said about JLB in the guise of others comments and his own, I doubt JLB will ever speak to MP again.
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: King Postwhore on June 11, 2014, 08:15:50 PM
LOL

"where everybody knows your name"

"except rumby"


 :lol
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: ReaPsTA on June 11, 2014, 11:48:49 PM
The three members are obviously JP (if only because of legal stuff), JR (who I think is the only current member of the band to have seen MP in person since he left) and MM (who's said publicly multiple times that he considers MP a friend).
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: ? on June 12, 2014, 12:18:33 AM
That LTE quote reminds me of the childish "3 DT members responded to my email, 2 didn't" tweet :facepalm: I got the impression he was referring to JP, but who knows... JP has said he's been exchanging emails with MP occasionally, but I think the scars left by the split probably haven't healed enough to make him want to work with MP yet. On the other hand, it might be that JP simply wants to concentrate on DT and use the spare time to work on his solo album.

I don't think this has been brought up with regard to this (and I don't want to stir the pot too much, but I think this is relevant and interesting enough to at least be worthy of brief discussion), but I think it's worth mentioning since this I think is the first clear indication we've had that things aren't okay between MP and JP: I don't remember the scenario and information surrounding that tweet—I wasn't around at the time—but is there any possibility that JP was not one of the three? I mean, I know it was assumed that the three were JP, JR and MM, but is it possible that this assumption was false and it was JR, MM and either JLB or JMX?
It was around the time DT got their first Grammy nomination, and MP said he congratulated them. I'm pretty sure James and JMX were the ones who didn't reply (can't blame them). It seems that JP is ok with being in contact with MP, but it's not like they're friends again. I wish MP would've simply said "I emailed them congratulating on the Grammy nomination" instead of playing the victim card again...
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: RodrigoAltaf on June 12, 2014, 04:14:01 AM
 I still like Mike.
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: mikeyd23 on June 12, 2014, 06:53:53 AM
Yeah I'd guess the 2 members that didn't respond were JLB and JMX.  It seems like those were the relationships that were most strained before MP left DT and have continued to be strained since his departure.
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: Madman Shepherd on June 12, 2014, 10:36:56 AM
That LTE quote reminds me of the childish "3 DT members responded to my email, 2 didn't" tweet :facepalm: I got the impression he was referring to JP, but who knows... JP has said he's been exchanging emails with MP occasionally, but I think the scars left by the split probably haven't healed enough to make him want to work with MP yet. On the other hand, it might be that JP simply wants to concentrate on DT and use the spare time to work on his solo album.

I don't think this has been brought up with regard to this (and I don't want to stir the pot too much, but I think this is relevant and interesting enough to at least be worthy of brief discussion), but I think it's worth mentioning since this I think is the first clear indication we've had that things aren't okay between MP and JP: I don't remember the scenario and information surrounding that tweet—I wasn't around at the time—but is there any possibility that JP was not one of the three? I mean, I know it was assumed that the three were JP, JR and MM, but is it possible that this assumption was false and it was JR, MM and either JLB or JMX?
It was around the time DT got their first Grammy nomination, and MP said he congratulated them. I'm pretty sure James and JMX were the ones who didn't reply (can't blame them). It seems that JP is ok with being in contact with MP, but it's not like they're friends again. I wish MP would've simply said "I emailed them congratulating on the Grammy nomination" instead of playing the victim card again...

I remember somewhere either MP or JP or both confirmed that they had emailed a few times, so did JR, and MM like has been said, always mentions him and Mike are friends (though i wouldn't doubt if it is kind of a one sided friendship now).

Both JLB and JM not only seem to have bad blood (and i don't blame them in the slightest) but they also seem the least active with technology.  JLB goes through spurts where he is active on twitter but otherwise those two are also the most elusive during DTs time off.  The combination of all of that pretty much confirms in my mind that those two were the ones that didn't email back.  Of course, like ? said, MP could have just said he emailed the guys and left it at that, but that doesn't fit the narrative of him being a straight shooter even though if he was really a straight shooter, he would have given us all of the details of who exactly the other two were.  This way, though, he gets to be more passive aggressive.  Classic. 
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: KevShmev on June 12, 2014, 10:55:09 AM
As much as he prides himself on telling it like it is, it is still astonishing to me that someone as old as him and who has been in the public eye as long as he has, still doesn't understand that some things, no matter how true they might be, are better left unsaid. 
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: Madman Shepherd on June 12, 2014, 11:02:18 AM
As much as he prides himself on telling it like it is, it is still astonishing to me that someone as old as him and who has been in the public eye as long as he has, still doesn't understand that some things, no matter how true they might be, are better left unsaid.

...or that telling half the story isn't really telling it like it is. 
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: olddtfan51@gmail.com on June 12, 2014, 12:25:42 PM
I cant help but feel when Portnoy refers to Dream Theater as his baby his band. That he makes JP and JM feel as if they where nothing more than side men in Mike Portnoy's Dream Theater. :yeahright :tdwn
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: ? on June 12, 2014, 12:42:37 PM
Both JLB and JM not only seem to have bad blood (and i don't blame them in the slightest)
Exactly. Did MP really expect a reply from them after he had liked some anti-JLB comments on his FB page and complained about JMX not spending time with the rest of the band in interviews? ::)
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: Madman Shepherd on June 12, 2014, 02:57:21 PM
Both JLB and JM not only seem to have bad blood (and i don't blame them in the slightest)
Exactly. Did MP really expect a reply from them after he had liked some anti-JLB comments on his FB page and complained about JMX not spending time with the rest of the band in interviews? ::)

Oh c'mon, he apologized to James for believing the out of context headline from Blabbermouth.net....which is the same as not apologizing to James. 
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: gentaishinigami on June 12, 2014, 05:39:01 PM
I cant help but feel when Portnoy refers to Dream Theater as his baby his band. That he makes JP and JM feel as if they where nothing more than side men in Mike Portnoy's Dream Theater. :yeahright :tdwn

I agree. I bet that is where a lot of the soured feelings stem from too.

*Baseless speculation*
I could see MP in the final "verbal fight" with the guys on leaving/them taking a break saying something along the lines of "I got this band to where it is, it's what it is because of me!" I could then see JP saying "Oh, really? OK, I'll show you otherwise!"
*End baseless speculation*
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: bosk1 on June 12, 2014, 06:19:19 PM
I cant help but feel when Portnoy refers to Dream Theater as his baby his band. That he makes JP and JM feel as if they where nothing more than side men in Mike Portnoy's Dream Theater. :yeahright :tdwn

I agree. I bet that is where a lot of the soured feelings stem from too.

*Baseless speculation*
I could see MP in the final "verbal fight" with the guys on leaving/them taking a break saying something along the lines of "I got this band to where it is, it's what it is because of me!" I could then see JP saying "Oh, really? OK, I'll show you otherwise!"
*End baseless speculation*

Yeah, I HIGHLY doubt anything like that was ever said or even implied.
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: BlobVanDam on June 13, 2014, 12:53:42 AM
I cant help but feel when Portnoy refers to Dream Theater as his baby his band. That he makes JP and JM feel as if they where nothing more than side men in Mike Portnoy's Dream Theater. :yeahright :tdwn

BABIES HAVE MULTIPLE PARENTS! :lol


This thread is why we can't have nice things.
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: Madman Shepherd on June 13, 2014, 12:03:53 PM
I cant help but feel when Portnoy refers to Dream Theater as his baby his band. That he makes JP and JM feel as if they where nothing more than side men in Mike Portnoy's Dream Theater. :yeahright :tdwn

BABIES HAVE MULTIPLE PARENTS! :lol


This thread is why we can't have nice things.

Dream Theater is a test tube baby. 
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: tiagodon on June 13, 2014, 04:11:40 PM
Well, this thread has hit mysterious waters... Lol
I feel like MP was really the heart of the band. DT sound has changed a big deal since MP left.
My deduction is that he really had the composition process in his hands.
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: hefdaddy42 on June 13, 2014, 04:39:20 PM
Except for the fact that he didn't.
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: Zook on June 13, 2014, 04:51:40 PM
Well, this thread has hit mysterious waters... Lol
I feel like MP was really the heart of the band. DT sound has changed a big deal since MP left.
My deduction is that he really had the composition process in his hands.

DT would sound like Adrenaline Mob at this point if MP was still in the band.
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: King Postwhore on June 13, 2014, 05:16:23 PM
Well, this thread has hit mysterious waters... Lol
I feel like MP was really the heart of the band. DT sound has changed a big deal since MP left.
My deduction is that he really had the composition process in his hands.

Except for the fact that he didn't.

This. 
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: The Letter M on June 13, 2014, 05:31:36 PM
Well, this thread has hit mysterious waters... Lol
I feel like MP was really the heart of the band. DT sound has changed a big deal since MP left.
My deduction is that he really had the composition process in his hands.

Except for the fact that he didn't.

This.

Composition? Not so much.
Arrangement? Definitely so.

And MP knew how to arrange music. His lack or inability to properly compose music like the rest of the band (and any members of any band he's been a part of) is really diminished by his ability to take music, whether its on a song-level or on an album-level, and arrange it strategically. As a man who LOVES music, LOVES albums, he really does know how to craft albums with great track orders (I can't really hear how Transatlantic's Bridge Across Forever would sound good in any other order) and create songs with exciting arrangements.

-Marc.
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: 425 on June 13, 2014, 05:58:36 PM
I just want to register my agreement with everything The Letter M said and my appreciation for Mike Portnoy in general.
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: Sir Walrus Cauliflower on June 13, 2014, 06:26:09 PM
I feel like MP was really the heart of the band. DT sound has changed a big deal since MP left.
My deduction is that he really had the composition process in his hands.

I would agree that he had a decent impact on their sound, but "heart and soul"  seems very exaggerated. Their sound tends to change with the release of every album,  and I would say the difference between TOT and 8VM, and maybe even SC is just as drastic as ADTOE and DT12.
if SC, BCASL and Portnoy's side projects are an example of where that heart and soul were taking DT,  I don't want it. The band's last 2 albums sound more energized and inspired than SC and BCASL... in my opinion
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: KevShmev on June 13, 2014, 07:05:48 PM
Well, this thread has hit mysterious waters... Lol
I feel like MP was really the heart of the band. DT sound has changed a big deal since MP left.
My deduction is that he really had the composition process in his hands.

I cannot imagine why you would deduce that, since there are no facts to back it up. ???

I feel like MP was really the heart of the band. DT sound has changed a big deal since MP left.
My deduction is that he really had the composition process in his hands.

I would agree that he had a decent impact on their sound, but "heart and soul"  seems very exaggerated. Their sound tends to change with the release of every album,  and I would say the difference between TOT and 8VM, and maybe even SC is just as drastic as ADTOE and DT12.
if SC, BCASL and Portnoy's side projects are an example of where that heart and soul were taking DT,  I don't want it. The band's last 2 albums sound more energized and inspired than SC and BCASL... in my opinion

See, now that I cannot agree with.  It's true that DT usually throws some twists and turns at us, but pretty much every album has DT's signature sound, which is undeniably them. 
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: Skeever on June 13, 2014, 07:09:11 PM
I don't think the sound/quality of the last two DT albums have as much to do with Mike as they do with John. I agree that the last two albums are slightly better than the two before them, but it's not because MP is gone, but more because MP being gone has given Johnny P something to prove as a songwriter! Maybe he was feeling a bit complacent on Black Clouds.

Just my theory anyway.
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: Sir Walrus Cauliflower on June 13, 2014, 07:33:11 PM
Well, this thread has hit mysterious waters... Lol
I feel like MP was really the heart of the band. DT sound has changed a big deal since MP left.
My deduction is that he really had the composition process in his hands.

I cannot imagine why you would deduce that, since there are no facts to back it up. ???

I feel like MP was really the heart of the band. DT sound has changed a big deal since MP left.
My deduction is that he really had the composition process in his hands.

 Their sound tends to change with the release of every album

See, now that I cannot agree with.  It's true that DT usually throws some twists and turns at us, but pretty much every album has DT's signature sound, which is undeniably them.

Well yes, the core sound is the same. They are still Dream Theater. I didn't mean they went from bluegrass to Crunk-core,  just that there have always been twists and turns.

Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: Madman Shepherd on June 13, 2014, 08:39:51 PM
Well, this thread has hit mysterious waters... Lol
I feel like MP was really the heart of the band. DT sound has changed a big deal since MP left.
My deduction is that he really had the composition process in his hands.

Except for the fact that he didn't.

This.

Composition? Not so much.
Arrangement? Definitely so.

And MP knew how to arrange music. His lack or inability to properly compose music like the rest of the band (and any members of any band he's been a part of) is really diminished by his ability to take music, whether its on a song-level or on an album-level, and arrange it strategically. As a man who LOVES music, LOVES albums, he really does know how to craft albums with great track orders (I can't really hear how Transatlantic's Bridge Across Forever would sound good in any other order) and create songs with exciting arrangements.

-Marc.

I think his position of "arranger" is way overstated.  Yes, he had a big hand in arranging but no I don't think he did any more than JP in that category.  In fact, I think he probably did significantly less than JP.  Still, he undeniably had a heavy hand in a lot of the ideas and concepts.  Certainly more so than JLB or JM.  When it cam to music, JP was clearly the leader with heavy input from JR.  When it came to arrangements, JP was clearly the leader with heavy input from MP. 
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: Cable on June 13, 2014, 09:20:35 PM
We cannot forgot he wrote the vocal melodies for basically what sounds like all songs he did lyrics for. So that gives him at least 10-15 songs of having a decent role. And of course the concepts/ideas, and maybe some arrangements as everyone else has been mentioning. As the band jammed on stuff instrumentally, MP would suggest trying a riff more often than this, or that. This is clear from watching studio stuff.

But progression wise MP had less input than JM or JR would have had is my guess, and of course nothing like JP. And that really is what makes songs appealing. I doubt MP was saying 'ok, during this section, lets do a B>G>D progression.' Sure, MP created probably the vast majority of the foundation of songs. But is a house a house with a foundation only?

Which is why MP comparing himself to Roger Waters as he frequently does is so far off. RW wrote basically all of The Wall, on top of many other songs... solely. RW probably did the lion's share of the progressions, and melodies. MP I'm guessing cannot claim the progressions part at all. So I find that comparison not fitting at all.

MP should aptly compare himself to Lars Ulrich, which is basically right on the money. Lars co-writes basically all the stuff, but I doubt Lars is suggesting chord changes; Hetfield does. Lars also was the main engine of that machine for a long time with legwork outside of the music, as was MP.

Until MP steps out like Phil Collins or Nick D'Virgilio, and actually writes a majority of a solo album, he will be Lars to me of the Prog world.
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: Grizz on June 13, 2014, 10:02:00 PM
...except for the negative connotations to Lars's talent, attitude, ego, taste in equipment, and how Lars was never amidst a dispute with Metallica over copyrights...
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: Cable on June 13, 2014, 10:11:34 PM
...except for the negative connotations to Lars's talent, attitude, ego, taste in equipment, and how Lars was never amidst a dispute with Metallica over copyrights...

I disagree. How often have people mentioned that since MP leaving him not being as good as MM? Missing parts at times, not practicing like everyone else. Clearly MP is beyond Lars. It wasn't meant to be a tic for tac verbatim comparison. Many people are more talented than Roger Waters too, and in some people's opinions MP very well could be better at his instrument than RW.

MP has an ego, like everyone else. Not as big as Lars, but why are we talking about this right now? Because MP felt like number 1 in the band.

Taste in equipment? Lars uses the same drums last time I knew!

Wouldn't this go down the same way if Lars were to leave Metallica though? Every single song that I can remember said Hetfield/Ulrich, with a combination of someone else occasionally.
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: ? on June 13, 2014, 10:25:58 PM
Dream Theater is a test tube baby.
I'm tempted to sig this :lol :clap:
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: BlueRoseOrchestra on June 13, 2014, 10:29:44 PM
the jamming sessions from the drummer auditions gave alot of insights to their songwriting process, especially Take This for the Pain documentary. it is obvious that the 4 guys can easily handle everything w/o Portnoy. my theory is that the band credited songwriting as a whole due to the share of each individual instrumental compositions. obviously the guitars and riffs and chord progressions composed majority of the music along with keyboard, bass and drums. as i agree Petrucci is behind the bigger portion of the composition but he still has limited knowledge of the complex rhythms and drum patterns compared to a real drummer.  if its some other mediocre music i'm sure most guitar players or musicians that doesnt play drums is able to handle. but with music as complex as Dream Theater it requires a real professional drummer with advance knowledge of complex drumming in order to fill the inputs for the drum parts. and thats what Petrucci stated in the drummer auditions that they need a drummer to understand what is going on musically instead of just excel at drum performance.

as far as for the concepts i think it was still Petrucci taking the bigger part. i recall from an interview where he mentioned he always has been intrigued by the diseases of the mind. Scenes and Six Degrees were both psychological concepts. in the Systematic Chaos documentary, it was mostly him discussing about the darker concepts being the most easiest subject matter to dive into. he wanted the music to be "minor and not happy". the lyrics of the two epic songs in Black Clouds, Nightmare and Count of Tuscany were written by him of his personal experiences.

in production and arrangement they probably had an equal share or possibly larger input from Portnoy. but Petrucci handled it himself very well for the last 2 albums which leads me to think either he worked up himself really good or he actually still had the greater input over Portnoy in those areas.
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: tiagodon on June 14, 2014, 05:30:50 AM

But progression wise MP had less input than JM or JR would have had is my guess, and of course nothing like JP. And that really is what makes songs appealing. I doubt MP was saying 'ok, during this section, lets do a B>G>D progression.' Sure, MP created probably the vast majority of the foundation of songs. But is a house a house with a foundation only?


Well, I'm thinking as a drummer. I am a drummer. He probably wouldn't suggest a B>G>D progression, but he would say: "Let's slow it down in this part... Let's put some more wildness in this part here and I'm gonna use the double bass... No, I didn't like that riff, why don't you break it down and let's try something more jazzy... Add a funk vibe there... This song is too long, let's end it right here..." etc. etc.
I would bet he did it all a lot!
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: CrimsonSunrise on June 17, 2014, 02:08:39 AM
I'm going back to pg 1 or 2.  I sure hope the speculation of ACOS hitting a setlist in the near future is correct.  I think I've seen DT a dozen times now since 2001, and have never seen ACOS in it's entirety.  Fingers are crossed!
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: lithium112 on June 17, 2014, 11:09:23 AM
It's always been assumed in these discussions that MP didn't and/or wasn't able to write any of the music, and was exclusively responsible for drums and arrangements. Have we ever had any confirmation of this from the band? I mean, he did go to Berklee and so he must have had compositional skills. And based on the Systematic Chaos documentary we know that he contributed to vocal melodies and harmonies. Was there some interview where any of the members specifically talked about this or are people just speculating?
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: Setlist Scotty on June 17, 2014, 11:20:35 AM
It's always been assumed in these discussions that MP didn't and/or wasn't able to write any of the music, and was exclusively responsible for drums and arrangements. Have we ever had any confirmation of this from the band? I mean, he did go to Berklee and so he must have had compositional skills. And based on the Systematic Chaos documentary we know that he contributed to vocal melodies and harmonies. Was there some interview where any of the members specifically talked about this or are people just speculating?
I can guarantee that MP does contribute to the actual writing - how much he contributed, I don't know, but it's safe to assume that it was less than JP and JR. He was the one that came up with the main riff in ARoP, and I recall him saying that he came up with the opening drum pattern in UaGM that I think influenced the writing of the song. Also, while it was credited to the band, NM was only written musically by DS, JM and MP. While it's possible that all MP did was arrange NM, and that DS and JM wrote all the actual music parts, it's unlikely. I'm sure that there are many other instances of MP actually contributing musical ideas that have not been identified, altho it's pretty established that they are far less than what JP and JR do.
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: hefdaddy42 on June 18, 2014, 08:25:44 AM
I have no doubt that he contributed actual composition, as opposed to merely arrangement.
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: DarkLord_Lalinc on June 18, 2014, 09:42:00 AM
The thing about ACOS is that they have so much epic/long songs now... They seem to have their "the more recent, the better the epic" mentality on since...well, forever; and that probably means they do not have plans of playing that any time soon. It's probably far more likely that we're going to see Octavarium (no problems here, favorite DT song), ITPOE or Illumination Theory live before ACOS. Oh, how I wish to be proved wrong... I would absolutely love to see ACOS live nowadays.
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: rumborak on June 18, 2014, 08:42:50 PM
Out of curiosity, I take it the "main riff" of AROP is to mean the one under the verse? That one strikes me as something a drummer would come up with (I quite like it). The other stuff I think you have to have the instrument in your hands to come up with (e.g. the opening bass line).
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: FlyingBIZKIT on June 18, 2014, 08:45:32 PM
I hope MP and JLB hold hands into the sunset one day
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: BlobVanDam on June 18, 2014, 10:22:28 PM
Out of curiosity, I take it the "main riff" of AROP is to mean the one under the verse? That one strikes me as something a drummer would come up with (I quite like it). The other stuff I think you have to have the instrument in your hands to come up with (e.g. the opening bass line).

I believe he came up with that opening riff, ie. the bass line one.
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: KevShmev on June 18, 2014, 11:07:40 PM
I've always thought that that main riff in A Rite of Passage was a slight retweaking of the In the Name of God riff.  It's subtle, but it's there. 
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: ? on June 19, 2014, 12:04:20 AM
It sounds more like Misunderstood to my ears.
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: BlobVanDam on June 19, 2014, 12:07:21 AM
It sounds more like Misunderstood to my ears.

It does sound a little reminiscent of the post-chorus riff. I don't hear any similarity at all with ITNOG. Not even the same scale.
But a lot of riffs have similarities due to the way riffs are formed, so it doesn't matter.
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: Setlist Scotty on June 19, 2014, 07:33:00 AM
Out of curiosity, I take it the "main riff" of AROP is to mean the one under the verse? That one strikes me as something a drummer would come up with (I quite like it). The other stuff I think you have to have the instrument in your hands to come up with (e.g. the opening bass line).
I believe he came up with that opening riff, ie. the bass line one.
Correct - for clarification, it's the riff repeated for the first 35 seconds of the song.
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: Madman Shepherd on June 19, 2014, 11:56:49 AM
Out of curiosity, I take it the "main riff" of AROP is to mean the one under the verse? That one strikes me as something a drummer would come up with (I quite like it). The other stuff I think you have to have the instrument in your hands to come up with (e.g. the opening bass line).

Mike does play some guitar.  I've seen videos of him shredding.  I think he actually played Eruption relatively accurately.  I wouldnt doubt if he actually played it on the guitar or bass. 

For being how open he is about some stuff, it is always funny when he keeps stuff quiet.  Perhaps he was never public with this because AROP is most peoples least favorite on Black Clouds (not me, it is actually my favorite).
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: TheLordOfTheStrings on June 21, 2014, 03:13:48 AM
In regards to the OP - he claims that concept is ENTIRELY his own... the lyrical concept is his, no doubt. Buuuuuuuuut... the musical concept on the other hand.... we all know who wrote that.. and his name ISN'T Mike Portnoy...
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: Skeever on June 21, 2014, 06:53:29 AM
Mike seems to be pretty knowledgeable musically, so I don't buy that he couldn't come up with his own compositions. If you watch the making of Kaleidoscope, documentary, Mike is holding his own talking about the songs with the guys and seems very music literate.
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: Setlist Scotty on June 21, 2014, 08:14:38 AM
In regards to the OP - he claims that concept is ENTIRELY his own... the lyrical concept is his, no doubt. Buuuuuuuuut... the musical concept on the other hand.... we all know who wrote that.. and his name ISN'T Mike Portnoy...
And no one, including MP would dispute that point of who wrote most of the music - the man has always been upfront and honest (see the thread about their appearance on Headbanger's Ball in 1994 for reference). However, while he may not have written much of the actual music, you can be sure that he was heavily involved with the arranging of it.

In any case, just like in the case of Geoff Tate (who it should be noted wrote only lyrics - NO music - but he'd never admit to that), because it was a concept that MP came up with, that is why MP in hindsight says he should've included that as part of the agreement, just as Tate did.
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: TheLordOfTheStrings on June 23, 2014, 12:08:25 AM
But seriously though, the point is, don't release something with your band if you want them to never be able to play if in the event of your departure. Save shit like that for a solo album or whatever. If the song was released by Dream Theater, or Pink Floyd or whoever, then Dream Theater, or Pink Floyd, etc should have every right to play it.
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: rumborak on June 23, 2014, 07:30:37 AM
How do you know upfront how long you're gonna stick with a band?

I think if MP *really* wanted to, he could play the material (after all he has played several DT songs since his departures), and DT would care little. It's more of a logistical problem for MP than anything else.
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: bosk1 on June 23, 2014, 09:53:25 AM
But seriously though, the point is, don't release something with your band if you want them to never be able to play if in the event of your departure. Save shit like that for a solo album or whatever. If the song was released by Dream Theater, or Pink Floyd or whoever, then Dream Theater, or Pink Floyd, etc should have every right to play it.

Actually, that is NOT the point at all.  He never says DT should not have the right to play any of it, and he has never tried to prevent them from doing so.  It is you who is missing the point of what Mike was saying and taking the quote to a place he never intended.
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: TheLordOfTheStrings on June 26, 2014, 03:11:57 AM
But seriously though, the point is, don't release something with your band if you want them to never be able to play if in the event of your departure. Save shit like that for a solo album or whatever. If the song was released by Dream Theater, or Pink Floyd or whoever, then Dream Theater, or Pink Floyd, etc should have every right to play it.

Actually, that is NOT the point at all.  He never says DT should not have the right to play any of it, and he has never tried to prevent them from doing so.  It is you who is missing the point of what Mike was saying and taking the quote to a place he never intended.
The fact that he brought up the 12 step suite to use as an example while talking about the Queensryche situation indicates a desire for them to never play it in it's entirety. He even clearly states he'd be heartbroken if they did.
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: Setlist Scotty on June 26, 2014, 07:13:42 AM
But seriously though, the point is, don't release something with your band if you want them to never be able to play if in the event of your departure. Save shit like that for a solo album or whatever. If the song was released by Dream Theater, or Pink Floyd or whoever, then Dream Theater, or Pink Floyd, etc should have every right to play it.

Actually, that is NOT the point at all.  He never says DT should not have the right to play any of it, and he has never tried to prevent them from doing so.  It is you who is missing the point of what Mike was saying and taking the quote to a place he never intended.
The fact that he brought up the 12 step suite to use as an example while talking about the Queensryche situation indicates a desire for them to never play it in it's entirety. He even clearly states he'd be heartbroken if they did.
That is correct - playing the 12 Step Suite in it's entirety. But your previous post strongly implies that MP had a problem with them playing *any* part of the 12SS, which is not true. Maybe that's not what you meant, but that's how it sounds. And I think that's what Bosk is referring to.
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: TheLordOfTheStrings on July 04, 2014, 05:00:24 PM
But seriously though, the point is, don't release something with your band if you want them to never be able to play if in the event of your departure. Save shit like that for a solo album or whatever. If the song was released by Dream Theater, or Pink Floyd or whoever, then Dream Theater, or Pink Floyd, etc should have every right to play it.

Actually, that is NOT the point at all.  He never says DT should not have the right to play any of it, and he has never tried to prevent them from doing so.  It is you who is missing the point of what Mike was saying and taking the quote to a place he never intended.
The fact that he brought up the 12 step suite to use as an example while talking about the Queensryche situation indicates a desire for them to never play it in it's entirety. He even clearly states he'd be heartbroken if they did.
That is correct - playing the 12 Step Suite in it's entirety. But your previous post strongly implies that MP had a problem with them playing *any* part of the 12SS, which is not true. Maybe that's not what you meant, but that's how it sounds. And I think that's what Bosk is referring to.
Oh, yes, I was referring to it in it's entirety. But my point is, each of those songs were released by Dream Theater - not Mike Portnoy. So if Dream Theater wanted to play those songs in their respective order, then there should be no problem with it legally. I can understand him being upset about it on a personal level, but I'd find it rather immature if he had decided to try to take legal action like in this whole Queensryche situation. That's all I was saying.
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: KevShmev on July 04, 2014, 11:17:26 PM
I think most would agree that, yes, Dream Theater has the right to play any or all of the 12SS, but the point is that playing all of it straight through (regardless of whether you personally want to see it or not) could be considered a bit disrespectful considering what it clearly means as a whole to their ex-bandmate.  And I am sure they know that.
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: nikatapi on July 05, 2014, 02:34:19 AM
I think most would agree that, yes, Dream Theater has the right to play any or all of the 12SS, but the point is that playing all of it straight through (regardless of whether you personally want to see it or not) could be considered a bit disrespectful considering what it clearly means as a whole to their ex-bandmate.  And I am sure they know that.

Aside from that, i don't think that they would really want to do it, i'm not sure if even the fans would want it.
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: BlobVanDam on July 05, 2014, 02:55:52 AM
I think most would agree that, yes, Dream Theater has the right to play any or all of the 12SS, but the point is that playing all of it straight through (regardless of whether you personally want to see it or not) could be considered a bit disrespectful considering what it clearly means as a whole to their ex-bandmate.  And I am sure they know that.

Aside from that, i don't think that they would really want to do it, i'm not sure if even the fans would want it.

I don't think you can generalize for the fans. I think a lot of people would want to see it, myself included. I agree that DT probably wouldn't play it as a whole out of respect regardless of that though, but I'm glad they've continued to play the individual songs, because they are still DT's songs at the end of the day, and it would be a loss if they considered them off-limits.
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: nikatapi on July 05, 2014, 03:31:12 AM
Ι didn't want to generalize, but i believe that in a context of a DT show, playing the whole thing would be something that would make the setlist very one-sided. And it's not like they would play something that is universally praised, there are people who don't like Repentance or TSF, so that was my point. It's just too much time focused on a piece that is not very coherent and popular as a whole, at least from the opinions i've read so far.
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: rumborak on July 05, 2014, 08:34:33 AM
I think one can definitely generalize that playing it wouldn't be shoe-in like, say, playing ACOS. How large the percentage of people would be who wouldn't like seeing the whole thing, is hard to say. But on here it has already been met with mixed feelings. It would be a gamble, that's for sure.
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: BlobVanDam on July 05, 2014, 08:51:51 AM
I think people greatly overestimate how much DTF represents the general fanbase. I think in practice, it would go down very well with the crowd.
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: KevShmev on July 05, 2014, 08:54:07 AM
I think the first three songs would probably go over well with live crowds, but Repentance would suck the life out of it, and The Shattered Fortress would get the "Okay, can we get something different now?" reaction, especially since it didn't get much of a reaction at either show I saw back in April.
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: rumborak on July 05, 2014, 09:14:33 AM
If they could whittle it down to a 30-minute epic, I think it could be rock solid. But yeah, with all the self-referencing between the songs, it would start to get boring about 30 minutes in.
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: Zook on July 05, 2014, 10:33:57 AM
If they could whittle it down to a 30-minute epic, I think it could be rock solid. But yeah, with all the self-referencing between the songs, it would start to get boring about 30 minutes in.

I've yet to experience this.
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: PetFish on July 05, 2014, 08:59:26 PM
I feel like I need to get on my soapbox here for a minute.

I'll always hold hope that one day Portnoy will play with the guys again for a special show or shows but here's the problem I'm having that I'd hoped fiercely would go away as time went on:

MP just doesn't know how to let anything go.  He just always seems to take shots at anyone when he has the chance.  Backhanded "compliments".   Passive-aggressive statements.  All that crap.

Look at a recent one where someone asked him about doing another LTE (live or album(?)) and he said (paraphrasing) "three of us want to but apparently one person doesn't want to look back and reminisce about the past" or something along those lines.  Rather than say "we're looking into it and I hope we can get together" he just has to say something like this and then leave us, the "fans", to speculate on wtf is going on.

I don't get it.  It's also like he's upset that the guys aren't talking shit about him so that makes him feel like he has to talk more and more shit to try and get some kind of negative reaction from them.

The thing that people always praise MP for is that he's open and honest and isn't afraid to speak his mind and "free speech" and all that.  That is a total bullshit cop-out.  Just because you CAN say whatever the hell you want, doesn't mean you SHOULD.  Some people just don't have that filter and it's unfortunate but inexcusable.

Both sides could have helped each other with their careers and held on to some great times and future reunions, but instead we get this, and it would be just as awkward now as it was 5 years ago if MP was on stage with DT after the separation all because MP just can't let things go.  This is why I'm not holding my breath for any kind of reunion cuz people can't heal when their scars are constantly being picked at.

Ok, I'm done, I'll always trust to hope, but it seems to have forsaken these lands.
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: Madman Shepherd on July 06, 2014, 08:35:10 PM
 :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm:


Quote from: Mike Portnoy
Lots of bickering over my Floyd comments. OK, I'ill meet the Gilmour fans half-way and say "real" Pink Floyd is BOTH Gilmour/Waters TOGETHER



then....

Quote from: Mike Portnoy retweeting what a fan posted
Very much like "real" Dream Theater is Portnoy/Petrucci.



 :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm:
 :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm:
 :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm:
 :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm:
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: Anguyen92 on July 06, 2014, 09:02:06 PM
I checked that retweet and saw a lot of snarkiness from the responses (pretty much expected) though I liked this response.

Quote
many would add Kevin Moore to that but Mike was happy to continue after he quit. Cant blame DT for continuing
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: bl5150 on July 06, 2014, 09:07:19 PM
Any chance the first tweet might have been angling for that exact response re DT ?  ::)
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: Grizz on July 06, 2014, 09:16:29 PM
Aw fuck  :facepalm:!
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: Sir Walrus Cauliflower on July 06, 2014, 10:46:15 PM
He seems to have such an immature mentality about the situation. The cheap little jabs and passive aggressive attitude is the kind of stuff I expect to see from broken up freshman couples in high-school, not a well respected and successful prog musician... It's almost like he doesn't take any responsibilty at this point for leaving.

You don't see Mangini liking or reposting comments that say "the REAL Berklee has Mike Mangini teaching there"

He also commented "Congrats guys!" when Haken beat DT in the Prog Sphere HoF competition of Facebook... Which is fine, but he didn't say anything to anybody else in any round throughout the whole competition until Haken beat DT (as far as I know).
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: DarkLord_Lalinc on July 06, 2014, 10:47:08 PM
lolpornoy
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: PetFish on July 06, 2014, 10:56:59 PM
:facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm:
 :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm:
 :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm:
 :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm:

Somehow, this just doesn't quite say it.  We need some new breed of facepalm graphic that can encompass the current ludicrous level of MPs facepalm status.
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: PetFish on July 06, 2014, 11:04:08 PM
MP has really gone off the deep end.  Maybe it's all part of his self-fulfilling rock icon delusion where he puts himself so far above anyone else he basically thinks he's God... and can create and destroy bands at-will and after 25 years all us regular folk will "get it" as the master plan it was this whole time and how far ahead of our time he was musically and blah blah blah.

Why do other artists even want to work with such a delusional egomaniac?  As soon as he decides it's over, it's over, and then the bridges get burned down and he moves on.  There is another organism on this planet that behaves in such a way... a virus.
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: Grizz on July 06, 2014, 11:42:07 PM
You know, I love MP, and think that most of the shit this forum said on his personality and actions was way overboard...
But I can't defend this. He went full retard with that retweet.
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: The Dark Master on July 07, 2014, 12:41:07 AM
Quote from: Mike Portnoy
Lots of bickering over my Floyd comments. OK, I'ill meet the Gilmour fans half-way and say "real" Pink Floyd is BOTH Gilmour/Waters TOGETHER


Very much like "real" Dream Theater is Portnoy/Petrucci.




Y'know, I read comments like this, and I have to wonder; what kind of response is he expecting to get from saying shit like this?  Does he honestly think that the majority of the Dream Theater fanbase is going to say "Fuck yeah!  You said it, Mike!"?  The last album with Portnoy sold 40k copies in it's first week, the first album without MP sold 36k (and the most recent one sold the same), so that means that 9/10ths of Dream Theater fans were willing to buy a Portnoy-less DT album blind.  So while there may be that 1 in 10 disgruntled DT fan who thinks that Mike was the band (and to be honest, I think it is way less then even 1 in 10), the simple fact is that most fans just moved on.

I think this is where Mike's whole thing about viewing the fans as his friends, as well as having been the biggest fan of his own band, really becomes a problem.  Because he seems to view the fans as his friends, he expects to be able to speak his mind without consequence, and he also expects the fans to have his back out of blind loyalty.  Futhermore, because he was the biggest fan of DT during his time in the band, it seems like he assumes that his opinions about DT are the predominant opinions of the fanbase as a whole.  But the simple truth of the matter is that it just doesn't work that way.  Bands change lineups all the time, and while there are those occasional splits that end up breaking careers, more often then not, the fans just get over the loss and move on.  Dream Theater fans got over the loss of Kevin Moore, it seems they have gotten over the loss of Mike Portnoy as well.

If, in the mind of Mike Portnoy, Dream Theater became a completely different band after he left, fine, but he needs to realize that most DT fans would disagree, and he comes across as being petty, passive-aggressive, and more then a little bit self-centered whenever he makes comments like this. I don't expect him to get over not being in DT overnight, but the sooner he is able to let go of the past, the better things will be, for him and for everyone else.
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: Madman Shepherd on July 07, 2014, 01:03:10 AM
Quote from: Mike Portnoy
Lots of bickering over my Floyd comments. OK, I'ill meet the Gilmour fans half-way and say "real" Pink Floyd is BOTH Gilmour/Waters TOGETHER


Very much like "real" Dream Theater is Portnoy/Petrucci.




Y'know, I read comments like this, and I have to wonder; what kind of response is he expecting to get from saying shit like this?  Does he honestly think that the majority of the Dream Theater fanbase is going to say "Fuck yeah!  You said it, Mike!"?  The last album with Portnoy sold 40k copies in it's first week, the first album without MP sold 36k (and the most recent one sold the same), so that means that 9/10ths of Dream Theater fans were willing to buy a Portnoy-less DT album blind.  So while there may be that 1 in 10 disgruntled DT fan who thinks that Mike was the band (and to be honest, I think it is way less then even 1 in 10), the simple fact is that most fans just moved on.



And also, record sales in general went down during that time so DT might not even lost any fanbase really.  They have expanded their stage show and I'm assuming have put a lot of extra money into it.   Attendance figures are steady for the most part.  There was the second leg of the ADTOE tour when they only pulled in 700 in Ohio but that was also the third time they had played in Ohio in the last year and it was a smaller market than usual.

But you were on point with everything you said.  I would add that I would LOVE to hear MP just own up to what he has said.  I would actually respect the hell out of it.  I wouldn't agree with it but I would at least respect it.  He always goes off on a tangent saying, "I wear my heart on my sleeve and I always shoot straight.  People are going to criticize me no matter what I say." 

So first of all, no he doesn't shoot straight because he will retweet or like something on facebook and then say, "I have a right to retweet what I want!"  Nobody of course says he doesn't.

Second, people are not going to criticize him no matter what he says.  He just had a tweet about Indian food and....thats cool, I guess.  I like Indian food.  HE HAS NO RIGHT TO EAT IT....k, sorry, I got carried away.  I guess I really will criticize him for anything. 

He even responded to a post I made on his forum recently and it was very bizarre to be "called out" by a guy I respected for a long time (and bought $100 bucks of cover band DVDs from in the last 6 months).  He couldn't fathom that nothing he has done since he left DT has interested me and called me a tough customer (which I guess it is good that he acknowledged I am a customer...and have given him a shitload of money).  He also listed all of the bands he has been in or played with since he left DT...I guess I should have responded that Bigelf and Fates Warning weren't "real" and don't count. 

Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: nikatapi on July 07, 2014, 01:21:40 AM
Well, probably MP feels a little bitter about how everyone moved on, both Dream Theater and the majority of the fans, and with every chance he gets he tries to stay in the spotlight.
Whatever, keep making music, if you are not happy with the outcome, the success, or the money, remember it was your choice to leave the band, and in bands you can't always have your way, there are other people involved.
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: hefdaddy42 on July 07, 2014, 06:43:30 AM
MP has really gone off the deep end.  Maybe it's all part of his self-fulfilling rock icon delusion where he puts himself so far above anyone else he basically thinks he's God... and can create and destroy bands at-will and after 25 years all us regular folk will "get it" as the master plan it was this whole time and how far ahead of our time he was musically and blah blah blah.

Why do other artists even want to work with such a delusional egomaniac?  As soon as he decides it's over, it's over, and then the bridges get burned down and he moves on.  There is another organism on this planet that behaves in such a way... a virus.
You need to tone it down.  This looks like outright bashing to me.
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: King Postwhore on July 07, 2014, 06:56:00 AM
Hef, you're on vacation.  No working.
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: rumborak on July 07, 2014, 07:17:59 AM
Gotta love Portnoy. Where would this forum be without him. We'd be making daisy chains and skipping around on meadows, and who wants that shit anyway.
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: Stadler on July 09, 2014, 12:35:06 PM
Hahaha, didn't take long to be able to read a post and be able to tell the poster just by the content.  Some of you WOULD criticize Mike no matter what he says.

"He's not being honest!"  "He's too honest!"  "He's only telling his side of the story" "He shouldn't give all those details!"

Please.

All of this - all the statements, the tweeets, the re-tweets - are all made in the context of the relationship between the parties and we are NOT those parties.   How do any of you know for a fact that the "Portnoy/Petrucci" comment was meant with malice?  How do you know that wasn't an olive branch of sorts for John?   We should have learned from Lennon/McCartney, Jagger/Richards, and/or Simmons/Stanley that these things are complicated and not easily analyzed from the outside.


As for the playing of songs/suites, while there are no legal restrictions generally, the parties can agree to anything they want.  If DT was willing, and received what they felt was fair compensation in return (need not be money) they can certainly agree that they will not perform some or all of the suite.   This is not uncommon at all, and I don't see what the uproar is.   Mike can ask for whatever he wants, and DT can give him whatever they want.  Why is the idea of two entities reaching an agreement on something so offensive to so many people (especially if you don't have an axe to grind against one or both of the entities)?
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: Sir Walrus Cauliflower on July 09, 2014, 01:38:19 PM
Hahaha, didn't take long to be able to read a post and be able to tell the poster just by the content.  Some of you WOULD criticize Mike no matter what he says.

"He's not being honest!"  "He's too honest!"  "He's only telling his side of the story" "He shouldn't give all those details!"

Please.

All of this - all the statements, the tweeets, the re-tweets - are all made in the context of the relationship between the parties and we are NOT those parties.   How do any of you know for a fact that the "Portnoy/Petrucci" comment was meant with malice?  How do you know that wasn't an olive branch of sorts for John?   We should have learned from Lennon/McCartney, Jagger/Richards, and/or Simmons/Stanley that these things are complicated and not easily analyzed from the outside.


As for the playing of songs/suites, while there are no legal restrictions generally, the parties can agree to anything they want.  If DT was willing, and received what they felt was fair compensation in return (need not be money) they can certainly agree that they will not perform some or all of the suite.   This is not uncommon at all, and I don't see what the uproar is.   Mike can ask for whatever he wants, and DT can give him whatever they want.  Why is the idea of two entities reaching an agreement on something so offensive to so many people (especially if you don't have an axe to grind against one or both of the entities)?

My problem isn't that he gives details and is honest, it's that he presents them when everyone else has moved on, and typically in a seemingly contrived way to make light of himself. If he wants to be open and talk about the situation, whatever... It's hard to believe it's still a thing by now, but he can say what he wants, it's just that for the sake of everyone, he should try not to be an arse.

Also, that statement may not have been meant with malice, but it sure makes it sound like "the magic of DT is gone without me". That may not have been what he meant, and if it isn't he should probably be a little more more clear. If it is what he meant, then I completely disagree with him 100% and I think it's a rude and pointless comment.
Also, of course this stuff is complicated. If you think it shouldn't be analyzed from the outside, I would think you would have a problem with MP tweeting and Facebooking everything to the public. That's why I think it's more respectful of the current members of DT to move on and keep it private.

Also, I don't think anybody is offended by the idea of an agreement, just with him acting as if he wrote and deserves creddit for 100% of the 12SS.
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: Setlist Scotty on July 09, 2014, 01:50:16 PM
Also, I don't think anybody is offended by the idea of an agreement, just with him acting as if he wrote and deserves creddit for 100% of the 12SS.
:facepalm:

And therein is where the problem lies, because he NEVER EVER claimed to be responsible for for writing the whole thing himself. Yes, he came up with the concept, probably came up with some musical ideas, encouraged other ideas out of the guys and was probably largely responsible for the arranging of those songs, but he never claimed as if he wrote it, nor is he acting like he did. He'll be the first to tell you himself. But obviously, it is something that is deeply personal to him, so that is why he made the comment that he wished he would've included that in his agreement with DT, just as Tater did regarding the Mindcrime albums with QR.
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: Madman Shepherd on July 09, 2014, 01:58:01 PM
Hahaha, didn't take long to be able to read a post and be able to tell the poster just by the content.  Some of you WOULD criticize Mike no matter what he says.

"He's not being honest!"  "He's too honest!"  "He's only telling his side of the story" "He shouldn't give all those details!"

Please.

You're right.  100% of what he tweets/retweets INFURIATES ME!  I just checked out his twitter and can you BELIEVE he retweeted a post praising him for being able to drum AND air drums at the same time?!?!?!  THE NERVE!!!  I was going to leave it at that but I couldn't help but notice a day or two ago he promoted...yes, PROMOTED a Winery Dogs show.  What disgusting behavior!!!  No matter what he says I will be here to criticize it.  You have figured us Mike Portnoy hater taters out, Stadler. 

Quote
All of this - all the statements, the tweeets, the re-tweets - are all made in the context of the relationship between the parties and we are NOT those parties.   How do any of you know for a fact that the "Portnoy/Petrucci" comment was meant with malice?  How do you know that wasn't an olive branch of sorts for John?   



...and a branch of thorns to John Myung, James LaBrie, and Jordan Rudess? 
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: Stadler on July 09, 2014, 02:42:19 PM
My problem isn't that he gives details and is honest, it's that he presents them when everyone else has moved on, and typically in a seemingly contrived way to make light of himself. If he wants to be open and talk about the situation, whatever... It's hard to believe it's still a thing by now, but he can say what he wants, it's just that for the sake of everyone, he should try not to be an arse.

Well, in some instances, he's being asked a question.  I'd rather this current scenario than have him pull a "Blackmore" and have certain questions be off limits.   And as for the "arse" comment, see below...

Quote
Also, that statement may not have been meant with malice, but it sure makes it sound like "the magic of DT is gone without me". That may not have been what he meant, and if it isn't he should probably be a little more more clear. If it is what he meant, then I completely disagree with him 100% and I think it's a rude and pointless comment.
Also, of course this stuff is complicated. If you think it shouldn't be analyzed from the outside, I would think you would have a problem with MP tweeting and Facebooking everything to the public. That's why I think it's more respectful of the current members of DT to move on and keep it private.

Also, I don't think anybody is offended by the idea of an agreement, just with him acting as if he wrote and deserves creddit for 100% of the 12SS.

This whole section speaks WAY more about the listener than it does about Mike.   I didn't at ALL think it sounded like "the magic of DT is gone without me".   I took it totally like "we really had something special".   For all his enthusiasm for his current projects, he has no "Petrucci" now.   Even Neal Morse, while a collaborator, isn't the "Page" to Portnoy's "Plant".   I can see a guy like Mike, with his immense knowledge of music, and his respect for legacy and history (including his own) being wistful about not having that partner in crime anymore.   

As for the last thing, he DOES deserve 100% credit, at least for the concept!   It wasn't [insert other band member]'s sobriety that formed the basis of the lyrical concept.    If I was the interviewer, I would have asked him if he would have minded if the band did the suite instrumentally.   That would have been a good indicator of what he was really thinking about.

I truly believe if Mike said "I like ice cream!!" someone would complain that he dissed cheesecake, and he should really think more about what he tweets!!
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: TAC on July 09, 2014, 02:54:46 PM
Also, I don't think anybody is offended by the idea of an agreement, just with him acting as if he wrote and deserves creddit for 100% of the 12SS.
:facepalm:

And therein is where the problem lies, because he NEVER EVER claimed to be responsible for for writing the whole thing himself. Yes, he came up with the concept, probably came up with some musical ideas, encouraged other ideas out of the guys and was probably largely responsible for the arranging of those songs, but he never claimed as if he wrote it, nor is he acting like he did. He'll be the first to tell you himself. But obviously, it is something that is deeply personal to him, so that is why he made the comment that he wished he would've included that in his agreement with DT, just as Tater did regarding the Mindcrime albums with QR.

It's amazing that some people have not grasped this concept yet.

You're right.  100% of what he tweets/retweets INFURIATES ME!  I just checked out his twitter and can you BELIEVE he retweeted a post praising him for being able to drum AND air drums at the same time?!?!?!  THE NERVE!!!  I was going to leave it at that but I couldn't help but notice a day or two ago he promoted...yes, PROMOTED a Winery Dogs show.  What disgusting behavior!!!  No matter what he says I will be here to criticize it.  You have figured us Mike Portnoy hater taters out, Stadler. 

Is this post made in seriousness or sarcasm?
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: Madman Shepherd on July 09, 2014, 03:26:04 PM


You're right.  100% of what he tweets/retweets INFURIATES ME!  I just checked out his twitter and can you BELIEVE he retweeted a post praising him for being able to drum AND air drums at the same time?!?!?!  THE NERVE!!!  I was going to leave it at that but I couldn't help but notice a day or two ago he promoted...yes, PROMOTED a Winery Dogs show.  What disgusting behavior!!!  No matter what he says I will be here to criticize it.  You have figured us Mike Portnoy hater taters out, Stadler. 

Is this post made in seriousness or sarcasm?

Do we seriously have to post everything in green that we intend to be sarcastic?  You can't possibly think there is a single person in the world who would take issue with an artist promoting their upcoming shows on twitter, can you?





I truly believe if Mike said "I like ice cream!!" someone would complain that he dissed cheesecake, and he should really think more about what he tweets!!

He just had a post about Indian food.  Find me one person that is offended he chose Indian food over a nice cold bowl of Borscht.
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: Shadow Ninja 2.0 on July 09, 2014, 03:26:53 PM
*raises hand*
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: Madman Shepherd on July 09, 2014, 03:29:55 PM
*raises hand*

JUST LET THE MAN EAT HIS FUCKING INDIAN FOOD!!!1!1 >:( :censored











 :tup
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: Stadler on July 09, 2014, 03:36:56 PM
...and a branch of thorns to John Myung, James LaBrie, and Jordan Rudess?

Maybe.  Maybe not.  As I said before, it is in the context of the parties' relationship and the context of the discussion.  The analogy was "Gilmour/Waters".   Not "Gilmour/Waters/Mason/Wright".   Perhaps Myung/LaBrie/Rudess would not be thin-skinned.  Perhaps they would look at it more positively, giving their bandmate of over 25 years the benefit of the doubt.   Perhaps they would have read the entire tweet string and recognized it wasn't a snub, but Mike was just keeping to the format.   Point isn't that I have the answer, the point is there are multiple possible answers and yours is only one (and an exceedingly negative one, at that). 
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: TAC on July 09, 2014, 03:44:25 PM


You're right.  100% of what he tweets/retweets INFURIATES ME!  I just checked out his twitter and can you BELIEVE he retweeted a post praising him for being able to drum AND air drums at the same time?!?!?!  THE NERVE!!!  I was going to leave it at that but I couldn't help but notice a day or two ago he promoted...yes, PROMOTED a Winery Dogs show.  What disgusting behavior!!!  No matter what he says I will be here to criticize it.  You have figured us Mike Portnoy hater taters out, Stadler. 

Is this post made in seriousness or sarcasm?

Do we seriously have to post everything in green that we intend to be sarcastic?  You can't possibly think there is a single person in the world who would take issue with an artist promoting their upcoming shows on twitter, can you?

Alright, man. I haven't read the entire thread to know your position. People have posted some crazy shit here, and your post was pretty outrageous. OK. Glad to know you weren't serious.
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: Sir Walrus Cauliflower on July 09, 2014, 04:15:58 PM
Also, I don't think anybody is offended by the idea of an agreement, just with him acting as if he wrote and deserves creddit for 100% of the 12SS.
:facepalm:

And therein is where the problem lies, because he NEVER EVER claimed to be responsible for for writing the whole thing himself. Yes, he came up with the concept, probably came up with some musical ideas, encouraged other ideas out of the guys and was probably largely responsible for the arranging of those songs, but he never claimed as if he wrote it, nor is he acting like he did. He'll be the first to tell you himself. But obviously, it is something that is deeply personal to him, so that is why he made the comment that he wished he would've included that in his agreement with DT, just as Tater did regarding the Mindcrime albums with QR.

It's amazing that some people have not grasped this concept yet.

Okay, I was wrong to say he's acting like he wrote 100%. I should have said that it seems people don't like the idea of him getting rights to songs that had significant portions written by other members. I didn't actually mean he was trying to take 100%, I was trying to get a point across. You can read pretty easily what I think about the article right on the first page of the thread.

My problem isn't that he gives details and is honest, it's that he presents them when everyone else has moved on, and typically in a seemingly contrived way to make light of himself. If he wants to be open and talk about the situation, whatever... It's hard to believe it's still a thing by now, but he can say what he wants, it's just that for the sake of everyone, he should try not to be an arse.

Well, in some instances, he's being asked a question.  I'd rather this current scenario than have him pull a "Blackmore" and have certain questions be off limits.   And as for the "arse" comment, see below...

Quote
Also, that statement may not have been meant with malice, but it sure makes it sound like "the magic of DT is gone without me". That may not have been what he meant, and if it isn't he should probably be a little more more clear. If it is what he meant, then I completely disagree with him 100% and I think it's a rude and pointless comment.
Also, of course this stuff is complicated. If you think it shouldn't be analyzed from the outside, I would think you would have a problem with MP tweeting and Facebooking everything to the public. That's why I think it's more respectful of the current members of DT to move on and keep it private.

Also, I don't think anybody is offended by the idea of an agreement, just with him acting as if he wrote and deserves creddit for 100% of the 12SS.

This whole section speaks WAY more about the listener than it does about Mike.   I didn't at ALL think it sounded like "the magic of DT is gone without me".   I took it totally like "we really had something special".   For all his enthusiasm for his current projects, he has no "Petrucci" now.   Even Neal Morse, while a collaborator, isn't the "Page" to Portnoy's "Plant".   I can see a guy like Mike, with his immense knowledge of music, and his respect for legacy and history (including his own) being wistful about not having that partner in crime anymore.   

It does say a lot about the listener I guess, and that way of looking at it is probably more realistic.

And yes, he does deserve complete credit for the idea to put the AA suite into songs. I just don't think he should have exclusive rights to play them when the other members contributed a lot. I don't think there's anything wrong with him bringing it up, though.
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: Setlist Scotty on July 09, 2014, 05:23:45 PM
I should have said that it seems people don't like the idea of him getting rights to songs that had significant portions written by other members.
<snip>
And yes, he does deserve complete credit for the idea to put the AA suite into songs. I just don't think he should have exclusive rights to play them when the other members contributed a lot. I don't think there's anything wrong with him bringing it up, though.
Once again, he is not against the other guys playing individual songs that make up the 12SS. In fact, I doubt he'd take issue with them even playing the TGP/TDS combo. But playing all 5 songs together as the full suite is the issue he would want to have exclusively.
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: Sir Walrus Cauliflower on July 09, 2014, 05:43:19 PM
I should have said that it seems people don't like the idea of him getting rights to songs that had significant portions written by other members.
<snip>
And yes, he does deserve complete credit for the idea to put the AA suite into songs. I just don't think he should have exclusive rights to play them when the other members contributed a lot. I don't think there's anything wrong with him bringing it up, though.
Once again, he is not against the other guys playing individual songs that make up the 12SS. In fact, I doubt he'd take issue with them even playing the TGP/TDS combo. But playing all 5 songs together as the full suite is the issue he would want to have exclusively.

That's pretty much what I said on the first page of this thread.
I don't see anything wrong with what Mike said, given the context. And honestly I get why he wouldn't want them to do the whole thing without him.

I think you're right about this. He even said "If Dream Theater was to go out there and perform my five-song concept thing..." It seems to be them playing through the whole story he created is what would bother him, not individual songs.

I also said:
I think they all should be ABLE to, but playing the 12SS (altogether, not individual songs) should just be left alone out of respect, not because of legal bindings.
Which I said because I think a band should be able to play material released under it's name, especially when 4/5 members who also helped develop the suite are still there.

I never said that he was against the other guys played individual songs that make up the 12SS.
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: Madman Shepherd on July 09, 2014, 06:03:47 PM
...and a branch of thorns to John Myung, James LaBrie, and Jordan Rudess?

Maybe.  Maybe not.  As I said before, it is in the context of the parties' relationship and the context of the discussion.  The analogy was "Gilmour/Waters".   Not "Gilmour/Waters/Mason/Wright".   Perhaps Myung/LaBrie/Rudess would not be thin-skinned.  Perhaps they would look at it more positively, giving their bandmate of over 25 years the benefit of the doubt.   Perhaps they would have read the entire tweet string and recognized it wasn't a snub, but Mike was just keeping to the format.   Point isn't that I have the answer, the point is there are multiple possible answers and yours is only one (and an exceedingly negative one, at that).

 :lol

You mean there are more opinions out there than just mine?  More interpretations of the tweet? Thanks for arguing against a point I never made.  This revelation blows me away. 

There are some people here that will take issue with anything I have to say!!!!!



Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: bosk1 on July 09, 2014, 06:08:30 PM
I should have said that it seems people don't like the idea of him getting rights to songs that had significant portions written by other members.
<snip>
And yes, he does deserve complete credit for the idea to put the AA suite into songs. I just don't think he should have exclusive rights to play them when the other members contributed a lot. I don't think there's anything wrong with him bringing it up, though.
Once again, he is not against the other guys playing individual songs that make up the 12SS. In fact, I doubt he'd take issue with them even playing the TGP/TDS combo. But playing all 5 songs together as the full suite is the issue he would want to have exclusively.

Exactly (as has repeatedy been said thoughout the thread).  And as has also been repeated, there is a HUGE difference between:  (1) On one hand, wistfully saying ("wistfully" is the perfect word here--thanks, Stadler) "gee, in hindsight, I guess it would have been cool if I had asked the rest of the band if they would agree to not play the entire 12SS, because that is something vey personal to me and was my concept" vs. (2) on the other hand, vindictively saying "I regret that I didn't legal force the band to give up all rights to ever playing the 12SS in its entirety."  I am as certain as can be under the circumstances that Mike was saying #1 and not #2.
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: Zook on July 09, 2014, 09:35:11 PM


You're right.  100% of what he tweets/retweets INFURIATES ME!  I just checked out his twitter and can you BELIEVE he retweeted a post praising him for being able to drum AND air drums at the same time?!?!?!  THE NERVE!!!  I was going to leave it at that but I couldn't help but notice a day or two ago he promoted...yes, PROMOTED a Winery Dogs show.  What disgusting behavior!!!  No matter what he says I will be here to criticize it.  You have figured us Mike Portnoy hater taters out, Stadler. 

Is this post made in seriousness or sarcasm?

Do we seriously have to post everything in green that we intend to be sarcastic?  You can't possibly think there is a single person in the world who would take issue with an artist promoting their upcoming shows on twitter, can you?





I truly believe if Mike said "I like ice cream!!" someone would complain that he dissed cheesecake, and he should really think more about what he tweets!!

He just had a post about Indian food.  Find me one person that is offended he chose Indian food over a nice cold bowl of Borscht.

Actually, the fact that he chose Indian food over Mexican does upset me a little.
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: SystematicThought on July 09, 2014, 10:27:05 PM
Quote from: Sir Walrus Cauliflower link=topic=41546.msg1830091#msg1830091 date
Also, of course this stuff is complicated. If you think it shouldn't be analyzed from the outside, I would think you would have a problem with MP tweeting and Facebooking everything to the public.
A7X did. I remember an interview back after they announced their new drummer that when MP came to them and said he quit Dream Theater, they told him that he should reconsider that and reexamine his decision. He said that he already put out his press release, which I don't think they thought was a good idea. In the same interview they said they didn't like how much he tweeted and used Facebook. They liked his openness with fans, but that some things are better left out of the public realm.
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: TheGreatPretender on July 09, 2014, 10:29:34 PM
A7X did. I remember an interview back after they announced their new drummer that when MP came to them and said he quit Dream Theater, they told him that he should reconsider that and reexamine his decision. He said that he already put out his press release, which I don't think they thought was a good idea. In the same interview they said they didn't like how much he tweeted and used Facebook. They liked his openness with fans, but that some things are better left out of the public realm.

Of course, I can't help but imagine at the time they were thinking something along the lines of, "Ah shit, all the DT fans are gonna blame us for this."
I don't blame them for asking him to reconsider.
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: Madman Shepherd on July 09, 2014, 10:51:35 PM


You're right.  100% of what he tweets/retweets INFURIATES ME!  I just checked out his twitter and can you BELIEVE he retweeted a post praising him for being able to drum AND air drums at the same time?!?!?!  THE NERVE!!!  I was going to leave it at that but I couldn't help but notice a day or two ago he promoted...yes, PROMOTED a Winery Dogs show.  What disgusting behavior!!!  No matter what he says I will be here to criticize it.  You have figured us Mike Portnoy hater taters out, Stadler. 

Is this post made in seriousness or sarcasm?

Do we seriously have to post everything in green that we intend to be sarcastic?  You can't possibly think there is a single person in the world who would take issue with an artist promoting their upcoming shows on twitter, can you?





I truly believe if Mike said "I like ice cream!!" someone would complain that he dissed cheesecake, and he should really think more about what he tweets!!

He just had a post about Indian food.  Find me one person that is offended he chose Indian food over a nice cold bowl of Borscht.

Actually, the fact that he chose Indian food over Mexican does upset me a little.

It might have something to do with John Myung being Mexican that influenced his decision  :-\
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: Sir Walrus Cauliflower on July 09, 2014, 10:54:21 PM
A7X did. I remember an interview back after they announced their new drummer that when MP came to them and said he quit Dream Theater, they told him that he should reconsider that and reexamine his decision. He said that he already put out his press release, which I don't think they thought was a good idea. In the same interview they said they didn't like how much he tweeted and used Facebook. They liked his openness with fans, but that some things are better left out of the public realm.

Of course, I can't help but imagine at the time they were thinking something along the lines of, "Ah shit, all the DT fans are gonna blame us for this."
I don't blame them for asking him to reconsider.

I'm sure that was a very uncomfortable situation for them. Sort of like when you're a kid at a friend's and their parents start arguing, so you just sort of tell your friend to calm down because you want to come over again.
Despite the weird analogy, I really do think they handled the situation well.
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: Zook on July 09, 2014, 11:22:16 PM


You're right.  100% of what he tweets/retweets INFURIATES ME!  I just checked out his twitter and can you BELIEVE he retweeted a post praising him for being able to drum AND air drums at the same time?!?!?!  THE NERVE!!!  I was going to leave it at that but I couldn't help but notice a day or two ago he promoted...yes, PROMOTED a Winery Dogs show.  What disgusting behavior!!!  No matter what he says I will be here to criticize it.  You have figured us Mike Portnoy hater taters out, Stadler. 

Is this post made in seriousness or sarcasm?

Do we seriously have to post everything in green that we intend to be sarcastic?  You can't possibly think there is a single person in the world who would take issue with an artist promoting their upcoming shows on twitter, can you?





I truly believe if Mike said "I like ice cream!!" someone would complain that he dissed cheesecake, and he should really think more about what he tweets!!

He just had a post about Indian food.  Find me one person that is offended he chose Indian food over a nice cold bowl of Borscht.

Actually, the fact that he chose Indian food over Mexican does upset me a little.

It might have something to do with John Myung being Mexican that influenced his decision  :-\

Are you implying that Portnoy doesn't like Myung because he's black?
Title: Re: MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."
Post by: Madman Shepherd on July 10, 2014, 10:12:56 AM


You're right.  100% of what he tweets/retweets INFURIATES ME!  I just checked out his twitter and can you BELIEVE he retweeted a post praising him for being able to drum AND air drums at the same time?!?!?!  THE NERVE!!!  I was going to leave it at that but I couldn't help but notice a day or two ago he promoted...yes, PROMOTED a Winery Dogs show.  What disgusting behavior!!!  No matter what he says I will be here to criticize it.  You have figured us Mike Portnoy hater taters out, Stadler. 

Is this post made in seriousness or sarcasm?

Do we seriously have to post everything in green that we intend to be sarcastic?  You can't possibly think there is a single person in the world who would take issue with an artist promoting their upcoming shows on twitter, can you?





I truly believe if Mike said "I like ice cream!!" someone would complain that he dissed cheesecake, and he should really think more about what he tweets!!

He just had a post about Indian food.  Find me one person that is offended he chose Indian food over a nice cold bowl of Borscht.

Actually, the fact that he chose Indian food over Mexican does upset me a little.

It might have something to do with John Myung being Mexican that influenced his decision  :-\

Are you implying that Portnoy doesn't like Myung because he's black?

I have a right to say whats on my mind/tweet/retweet/like posts on facebook that I want to like!!!!

...but yes, thats exactly what I'm implying

 :tup