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Dream Theater => Dream Theater => Topic started by: KevShmev on April 27, 2014, 06:49:26 PM

Title: What grade do you give the Score set list?
Post by: KevShmev on April 27, 2014, 06:49:26 PM
I finally bought this on DVD, after avoiding it for so long because of what I always considered a pretty mediocre-looking set list.  After watching it, though, I think a little more of it, thanks to Set 1 coming off better than it looks on paper.  The performances of Afterlife, Raise the Knife, Under a Glass Moon and Innocence Faded are all dynamite, and that is a nice rendition of Another Won.  And ending a set with The Spirit Carries On is always good.

On the flip side, Set 2 is largely unimpressive, for me.  I don't care for 6DOIT as a single piece, and having it as one track on the DVD is really annoying.  I like Vacant, but with the orchestra, no thanks. The Answer Lies Within and Sacrificed Sons were both snoozers.  However, the performance of Octavarium was pretty spectacular.  I mainly bought the DVD because I wanted that to be on at least one of the live DT DVDs I own.  Metropolis as the encore is obviously great. 

Ultimately, I think having the orchestra restricted them, as they obviously felt like they had to do songs that heavily featured strings, like 6DOIT (thanks to the overture) and The Answer Lies Within.  But it severely lessened the set list.

Overall, I'll give the set list a B-, but considering it was an anniversary show and set list, it only gets a C from me.
Title: Re: What grade do you give the Score set list?
Post by: TheGreatPretender on April 27, 2014, 06:55:13 PM
I really love this setlist. I give it a B, but mainly because the setlist for LSFNY and the newest one have been so damn perfect.

But all in all, there isn't a single song on Score that I would change. The only songs on it that I wouldn't call my favorites, are probably the ones that weren't available in live format before, so they're still more than welcome. But Another Won, Raise The Knife, SDOIT and 8VM really give this setlist one amazing edge for both sets.

And I really enjoyed seeing IWBY and TALW live.
Title: Re: What grade do you give the Score set list?
Post by: black_biff_stadler on April 27, 2014, 07:12:04 PM
D

Octavarium is my least favorite DT album and this setlist is loaded with it. I realize they were touring for it with it being the current album and all so I completely cut them slack for having that much of it on there. Where I don't cut them slack is leaving out two of the three songs I can most tolerate from it (TW and PA.) Beyond that, Innocence Faded, The Spirit Carries on, SDOIT, and Vacant are all close to being my least favorite songs from their albums. Having Metropolis and Afterlife were huge bonuses for it though and Anther Won was a nice song for me to discover. All in all, however, I've watched this thing like maybe 3 or 4 times ever and haven't watched it in like 5 years at least. It's just too tedious to sit through all the stuff I, at best, only slightly dislike.
Title: Re: What grade do you give the Score set list?
Post by: KevShmev on April 27, 2014, 07:20:23 PM
Same here, regarding Octavarium.  I don't dislike The Answer Lies Within - it's an enjoyable song, albeit very vanilla -  but how is that good enough to make it on to a set list celebrating 20 years of Dream Theater?  And again, Sacrificed Sons really sticks out like a sore thumb in that 2nd to last spot of the 2nd set (which is normally reserved for something really great). 
Title: Re: What grade do you give the Score set list?
Post by: Rodni Demental on April 27, 2014, 07:23:33 PM
It's great! I always viewed it as the 'family friendly' setlist. And I couldn't agree more that set 1 comes off a lot better than you'd expect. It helped me gain appreciation for 3 songs that I otherwise wasn't into. (Another Won, Raise The Knife, Innocence Faded). I think it has an excellent flow to it, dynamically and chronologically, it's very cool how the first set just chooses one song from each album to represent it (after new material for the introduction). And despite the choices seeming somewhat strange at first, I think they're all great choices to represent each time period.

There's also a lot of contributions from all the current and previous members. I think JM is the only one that doesn't have a song in the set with lyric contributions. And then there's the Orchestra which adds another dimension to all of the songs they play on. I've heard a few complaints about the tuning/timing of the Orchestra but I think these are pretty minor considerations and don't take away from the experience unless you deliberately focus on that sort of thing.

Not to mention Six Degrees and Octavarium at the same show? Total win. I doubt something like that will ever happen again. Regarding the Octarium album choices (seeing as half the album is actually on here), I think they intentionally chose the ones that would benefit more from the orchestra. Making SS and TALW more obvious choices. Although admittedly, I could imagine These Walls might benefit a fair bit from real strings.

Then again, LSFNY and Budakan give Score's setlist a run for it's money. And Chaos in Motion actually has a decent variety of songs too even if it wasn't an official setlist in of itself and just a collection. And Luna Park was a great set of songs that worked perfectly with the new band lineup, it was a lot of the stuff we would have wanted them to still play imo. So in the end, I was never gonna complain about Score's set because I really like how each release has it's own unique flavour of songs. When each live release has a 'greatest hitz' feel to it is the only time I'll complain, otherwise I think DT has always been good at mixing up their setlists, and Score is a great example of this.
Title: Re: What grade do you give the Score set list?
Post by: Kotowboy on April 27, 2014, 07:23:56 PM
I dunno about the setlist but I score the amp that John was using a C+

:neverusethis:
Title: Re: What grade do you give the Score set list?
Post by: KevShmev on April 27, 2014, 07:28:13 PM
  I think DT has always been good at mixing up their setlists, and Score is a great example of this.

Agreed.  If you have every DT officially released live DVD, you have a ton of DT songs, and Score has 10 songs that you won't find as a whole on any other. 

I just that, in a vacuum, it is an average set list, especially by anniversary set list standards.
Title: Re: What grade do you give the Score set list?
Post by: Zook on April 27, 2014, 07:33:04 PM
Well it wasn't their 20th Anniversary anyway, remember?
Title: Re: What grade do you give the Score set list?
Post by: KevShmev on April 27, 2014, 07:38:16 PM
Well it wasn't their 20th Anniversary anyway, remember?

(https://replygif.net/i/926.gif)
Title: Re: What grade do you give the Score set list?
Post by: orcus116 on April 27, 2014, 09:12:24 PM
C. I remember distinctly when they burst into I Walk Beside You after The Root Of All Evil the crowd energy died completely.
Title: Re: What grade do you give the Score set list?
Post by: jammindude on April 27, 2014, 09:25:12 PM
C. I remember distinctly when they burst into I Walk Beside You after The Root Of All Evil the crowd energy died completely.

You were at a different Radio City Music Hall than I was. I remember the entire theater going crazy and every person clapping with their hands in the air.
Title: Re: What grade do you give the Score set list?
Post by: Madman Shepherd on April 27, 2014, 10:14:55 PM
I was going to give it a C because I like the anthology *idea* but I think it was executed pretty poorly.  Song choices were kind of weak overall.  I also don't think it flowed well from two new cuts, a song even diehards don't know that well, to a song most diehard are somewhat familiar but most others aren't, to a well known song with stupid circus music ruining the flow, to a mediocre song from Awake, to a good song that most people don't know, even a lot of diehards, to a singalong song that is kind of overrated....you get the idea. 

To give you an idea of how underwhelming it is, for the current Along for the Ride tour I was not too impressed with the setlist but absolutely LOVED half of it.  After seeing it live, I really don't know if I would change anything INCLUDING the songs I didn't care for like LSOAD and Scarred.  It just flowed pretty great.
Title: Re: What grade do you give the Score set list?
Post by: DarkLord_Lalinc on April 27, 2014, 10:21:11 PM
C.
I feel the setlist choices made the show feel somewhat "unique", but their other 20th Anniversary setlists were better. I totally get how the whole second set was very orchestra-oriented, but they played some songs that feel "weird" as standards to a show that was, in purpose, the culmination of a chapter. The Answer Lies Within? Vacant? Also, as much as I like Metropolis with the orchestra, I find it very sad Learning to Live wasn't played on that show. Some of the very best Learning to Live live performances ever by JLB were on that tour, and I would have loved to have a definitive live version on that recorded properly.
Title: Re: What grade do you give the Score set list?
Post by: ? on April 28, 2014, 12:32:31 AM
D.

Root is an awesome opener, Another Won is pretty cool and the performances of Afterlife, UAGM and Innocence Faded are all great, but apart from those I find the setlist really meh. These Walls would've been a way better song to follow up TROAE, I'm not crazy about Raise the Knife and TSCO has that overlong intro that makes it even less interesting to listen to. I understand that they wanted to play orchestra-friendly stuff in the second set, but it made the selection of songs underwhelming and lacking in variety. Seriously, who wants to hear The Answer Lies Within at a 20th anniversary show? I've never cared about Six Degrees and Octavarium that much, so the fact that they eat up over an hour of the setlist bothers me as well.

The band's performance is really good and I appreciate that there's something from each era, but the song picks could've been way better. Besides, the albums are represented quite unevenly: a 42-minute piece from Six Degrees is followed by a 3-minute song from TOT and the only FII-era song isn't even from the album itself.
Title: Re: What grade do you give the Score set list?
Post by: robwebster on April 28, 2014, 01:22:15 AM
I think it was completionism over quality. They picked well to get tracks that hadn't been on DVDs before, but there's very few A-listers and quite a few B-listers.

The Root of All Evil is just about the heaviest song they've got in there. This gives the show, itself, cohesion - everything feels relatively compatible, everything sits nicely together, so it's not a chore to watch - but it feels like a very narrow view of what DT's about.

I'm enjoying it more, with time. It's got a distinct flavour, and that's good; I pick up Score for a certain type of experience that I can't get from any of the other DVDs, and it's sort of an antidote to Live at Budokan, which showcased the heavier side a lot more. I just wish there were more excellent songs. Vacant into The Answer Lies Within remains one of the weirdest bait-'n'-switches of the band's career. There's a bloody superb version of Stream of Consciousness waiting to be played with an orchestra, something about it just sounds symphonic.
Title: Re: What grade do you give the Score set list?
Post by: Daso on April 28, 2014, 01:53:09 AM
I enjoy it a lot, but it could've been better. They should've played Blind Faith insted of SDOIT (I understand it was for the orchestra so it makes sense, at least), then Vacant + Stream of Consciousness and then do the next part. I'd give it something between a high B and a low A.
Title: Re: What grade do you give the Score set list?
Post by: mirko_metal_88 on April 28, 2014, 01:57:40 AM
Almost perfect, it would have been the absolute perfection with 1 more song from ToT (maybe Endless Sacrifice) and onw less song from 8vm (TALW or Sacrified Sons)

and it would have been I N C R E D I B L E with ACOS in it....best setlist EVER
Title: Re: What grade do you give the Score set list?
Post by: The Curious Orange on April 28, 2014, 02:13:20 AM
I gave it a C. I'm in 2 minds about the setlist. Sometimes I think it's a shame that they didn't release something more representative of the tour - Panic Attack, A Fortune In Lies, Peruvian Skies, As I Am, Endless Sacrifice - and that it's a huge missed opportunity. Other times I think it's good that they included some lesser-played songs - Afterlife, Innocence Faded, Raise the Knife - and I've kind of warmed to it with time.

I never listen to 6DOIT any more. Bits of it are good, but it just goes on too long, and I'm sick and tired of that main refrain (that still sounds like the "lark that is learning to fly" bit of The Sound of Music to me).

That said, Sacrificed Sons and Octavarium sound fantastic with an orchestra.

It's a great show, and really well shot. The sound on the DVD is fine, but the CD is a bit muddy. The setlist remains the one weak link.
Title: Re: What grade do you give the Score set list?
Post by: MirzekDT on April 28, 2014, 02:30:21 AM
Seriously, who wants to hear The Answer Lies Within at a 20th anniversary show?

I do, you are asking like it's well known fact that the song is not good for 20th anniversary show. It was obvious choice because of orchestra and I really enjoy the live version of TALW.
Title: Re: What grade do you give the Score set list?
Post by: Setlist Scotty on April 28, 2014, 03:30:43 AM
Altho I was there and this particular show is one of the best I've seen in general, I'm giving the setlist a C. Personally, I don't have much of a problem with the second set, tho I do agree that it might drag a little. But I take more issue with some of the alternatives that could've been included for set 1 and the encore.

I'd rather have seen them not include IWBY in the first set, which would've allowed the extra space for them to include Peruvian Skies with the excerpts of Wish You Were Here and Wherever I May Roam, and instead of ending the first set with TSCO (which I find boring and waaaaayyyy overplayed), play Home (perhaps with the Tool-inspired edited intro). And instead of Metropolis for the encore (sorry guys, it's OK song, but overrated, IMO), go with LtL which I think would've worked much better with the orchestra. Perhaps swapping in IWBY for TALW in the second set to keep things a little bit more alive in the second set.
Title: Re: What grade do you give the Score set list?
Post by: krands85 on April 28, 2014, 04:26:32 AM
I'd give it a B probably, though it would be hard to give any set that culminates in Octavarium and Metropolis anything less  :lol I think it works pretty well for what they were trying to achieve and the restrictions they had, though there could have been a few better choices here and there. I've never been a big fan of 6DOIT, but I like the idea of having it as a full piece on a live release, especially with the orchestra.

The set can't really compete with LSFNY of course, which is easily their best from a live release. I think Score is a way better set than the one on the current tour, though I'm probably in the minority on that, everyone else seems to love it!
Title: Re: What grade do you give the Score set list?
Post by: adastra on April 28, 2014, 06:10:53 AM
I think that setlist is pretty great! 
I'd only change one thing,  IMO Vacant can't be played without SOC !!!!
Title: Re: What grade do you give the Score set list?
Post by: emtee on April 28, 2014, 06:40:00 AM
I love disc 1 and play it often but it's rare for me to play the other 2. Little nitpicky things keep me from spinning them. Not
separating SDoIT into sections because I always skip the Overture and I don't like the overly long intro on 8V. These are minor
things though, it's just that I like disc 1 best.
Title: Re: What grade do you give the Score set list?
Post by: mikeyd23 on April 28, 2014, 07:07:09 AM
I gave it a B.  The songs themselves are hit or miss for me but the performances of the songs are pretty convincing throughout.
Title: Re: What grade do you give the Score set list?
Post by: ZKX-2099 on April 28, 2014, 07:20:20 AM
Set list: B
Performance: A

Didn't care for Vacant being thrown in there. Would have liked an actual song off FII. Or The Way It Used To Be instead. :metal
Title: Re: What grade do you give the Score set list?
Post by: snapple on April 28, 2014, 07:38:15 AM
B

Another Won and Afterlife save the first disc. Disc 2 is unsalvageable.
Title: Re: What grade do you give the Score set list?
Post by: KevShmev on April 28, 2014, 07:49:16 AM
I was going to give it a C because I like the anthology *idea* but I think it was executed pretty poorly.  Song choices were kind of weak overall.  I also don't think it flowed well from two new cuts, a song even diehards don't know that well, to a song most diehard are somewhat familiar but most others aren't, to a well known song with stupid circus music ruining the flow, to a mediocre song from Awake, to a good song that most people don't know, even a lot of diehards, to a singalong song that is kind of overrated....you get the idea. 

 

Well, when you put it that way...:lol

  I'm not crazy about Raise the Knife and TSCO has that overlong intro that makes it even less interesting to listen to. I understand that they wanted to play orchestra-friendly stuff in the second set, but it made the selection of songs underwhelming and lacking in variety. Seriously, who wants to hear The Answer Lies Within at a 20th anniversary show?

Exactly (regarding your last two points).

As for The Spirit Carries On, that song always goes over HUGE with live crowds, so they could play it at every show and I'd be fine with it.  I think adding a long intro to it every time is definitely unnecessary, however.

I'd rather have seen them not include IWBY in the first set, which would've allowed the extra space for them to include Peruvian Skies with the excerpts of Wish You Were Here and Wherever I May Roam, and instead of ending the first set with TSCO (which I find boring and waaaaayyyy overplayed), play Home (perhaps with the Tool-inspired edited intro). And instead of Metropolis for the encore (sorry guys, it's OK song, but overrated, IMO), go with LtL which I think would've worked much better with the orchestra. Perhaps swapping in IWBY for TALW in the second set to keep things a little bit more alive in the second set.

To me, Metropolis or Learning to Live were obvious choices as the encore for this show, and you can't argue with going for either, given the iconic status both songs hold.  If Metropolis got the nod because it hadn't been played from start to finish on a previous DVD (5YIAL doesn't count since it inexplicably cuts off before the ending), so be it. :biggrin:

I think it works pretty well for what they were trying to achieve and the restrictions they had, though there could have been a few better choices here and there. I've never been a big fan of 6DOIT, but I like the idea of having it as a full piece on a live release, especially with the orchestra.
 

Let's remember that these restrictions were self-imposed.  It didn't have to be that way.

Really, it's too bad that there wasn't a live DVD release from the 6DOIT tour, since the set lists on that tour were mostly awesome (not counting the cover shows ;) :lol), and they could have gotten their "6DOIT on a DVD" fix over with then.  The Bucharest ytsejam release sort of took care of this, but that is considered an unofficial release.
Title: Re: What grade do you give the Score set list?
Post by: BlobVanDam on April 28, 2014, 08:02:19 AM
I think for the occasion of an 8V and 20th anniversary DVD, the setlist was great. Not all my own preferences, but well thought out for the occasion.
It showed off JLB's killer vocals on UAGM, Innocence Faded, and a superior vocal performance for TSCO. And this tour is what made me a fan of Afterlife, and this is the best recording we have of that.
Plus finally the long overdue live recording of SDOIT, and with the added bonus of an orchestra (it's a shame the orchestra wasn't great, and I'll never listen to it over the perfection of the studio version). And it had the definitive live versions of the Octavarium tracks that featured the orchestra (could that live version of the title track be any better?), and we got a fantastic and complete video recording of Metropolis.


B

Another Won and Afterlife save the first disc. Disc 2 is unsalvageable.

LOOOOOOOOL

Title: Re: What grade do you give the Score set list?
Post by: ZirconBlue on April 28, 2014, 08:19:07 AM
B- or C+.  I think the orchestra was something of a missed opportunity.  They mostly stuck to songs that originally had strings/orchestra on them in the studio, which makes sense, I guess.  But, I think the one song really enhanced by having the orchestra was Metropolis, where they added something new to the song.  Now, when I'm listening to other versions of Metropolis, I miss that french horn part.
Title: Re: What grade do you give the Score set list?
Post by: The Curious Orange on April 28, 2014, 08:25:16 AM
The Bucharest ytsejam release sort of took care of this, but that is considered an unofficial release.

That Bucharest show is fantastic - Glass Prison, Killing Hand, Scarred, Lines In the Sand, Home, Learning to Live - what more could you want??? And I love the way they shake up the arrangements - I wish they still did that.


I'm not a great fan of the LALP setlist either - too many ADTOE songs, and the choice of older songs is somewhat underwhelming.
Title: Re: What grade do you give the Score set list?
Post by: son_ov_hades on April 28, 2014, 08:52:49 AM
I give it a B. Another Won, Afterlife, Under A Glass Moon, and Raise The Knife make for a pretty great first set. It is dragged down by I Walk Beside You though, that song just seems really out of place in the set. The second set is really unbalanced and it suffers from that. Six Degrees Of Inner Turbulence with the orchestra is the definitive version, even better than the studio. But then Vacant played without Stream Of Consciousness really really weird, The Answer Lies Within and Sacrificed Sons are fine but kind boring, Octavarium is phenomenal, Metropolis is my favorite Dream Theater song but this performance of it is far from the best. Overall the setlist is not the best, but still pretty good.
Title: Re: What grade do you give the Score set list?
Post by: kirksnosehair on April 28, 2014, 08:55:16 AM
D

Octavarium is my least favorite DT album and this setlist is loaded with it. I realize they were touring for it with it being the current album and all so I completely cut them slack for having that much of it on there. Where I don't cut them slack is leaving out two of the three songs I can most tolerate from it (TW and PA.) Beyond that, Innocence Faded, The Spirit Carries on, SDOIT, and Vacant are all close to being my least favorite songs from their albums. Having Metropolis and Afterlife were huge bonuses for it though and Anther Won was a nice song for me to discover. All in all, however, I've watched this thing like maybe 3 or 4 times ever and haven't watched it in like 5 years at least. It's just too tedious to sit through all the stuff I, at best, only slightly dislike.


I feel similarly about Octavarium.    Score is not a DVD I watch too often either.  Dream Theater doing impressions of U2 and Muse....didn't really connect with me.  This all happened during that "Inspiration Corner" era. 


Title: Re: What grade do you give the Score set list?
Post by: BlobVanDam on April 28, 2014, 08:57:33 AM
D

Octavarium is my least favorite DT album and this setlist is loaded with it. I realize they were touring for it with it being the current album and all so I completely cut them slack for having that much of it on there. Where I don't cut them slack is leaving out two of the three songs I can most tolerate from it (TW and PA.) Beyond that, Innocence Faded, The Spirit Carries on, SDOIT, and Vacant are all close to being my least favorite songs from their albums. Having Metropolis and Afterlife were huge bonuses for it though and Anther Won was a nice song for me to discover. All in all, however, I've watched this thing like maybe 3 or 4 times ever and haven't watched it in like 5 years at least. It's just too tedious to sit through all the stuff I, at best, only slightly dislike.


I feel similarly about Octavarium.    Score is not a DVD I watch too often either.  Dream Theater doing impressions of U2 and Muse....didn't really connect with me.  This all happened during that "Inspiration Corner" era. 




They've been doing U2 impressions almost since day 1.
Title: Re: What grade do you give the Score set list?
Post by: snapple on April 28, 2014, 09:03:44 AM
B
Another Won and Afterlife save the first disc. Disc 2 is unsalvageable.

LOOOOOOOOL


I didn't mock your opinions.
Title: Re: What grade do you give the Score set list?
Post by: BlobVanDam on April 28, 2014, 09:11:50 AM
B
Another Won and Afterlife save the first disc. Disc 2 is unsalvageable.

LOOOOOOOOL


I didn't mock your opinions.

To be fair, I didn't give an opinion in this thread before your post. :biggrin:
But sorry anyway. Your comment was so extreme that I couldn't formulate any better response.
Title: Re: What grade do you give the Score set list?
Post by: CrimsonSunrise on April 28, 2014, 09:21:12 AM
I gave it a C, on a good day a B-.  My perfect "A" for the format would have been....


Set 1.

"The Root of All Evil"      
"These Walls"   
"The Killing Hand"      
"Learning to Live"      
"Voices"      
"Raise the Knife"   
"Finally Free" 

Set 2

"6DOIT"
"Stream of Consciousness"
"Sacrificed Sons"
"Octavarium"
"Metropolis Pt. 1"
Title: Re: What grade do you give the Score set list?
Post by: DarkLord_Lalinc on April 28, 2014, 09:25:03 AM
The Bucharest ytsejam release sort of took care of this, but that is considered an unofficial release.
I'm not a great fan of the LALP setlist either - too many ADTOE songs, and the choice of older songs is somewhat underwhelming.
...But that was the point of A Dramatic Tour of Events, wasn't it?  :lol
Title: Re: What grade do you give the Score set list?
Post by: theseoafs on April 28, 2014, 09:35:30 AM
I gave it a C, on a good day a B-.  My perfect "A" for the format would have been....


Set 1.

"The Root of All Evil"      
"These Walls"   
"The Killing Hand"      
"Learning to Live"      
"Voices"      
"Raise the Knife"   
"Finally Free" 

Set 2

"6DOIT"
"Stream of Consciousness"
"Sacrificed Sons"
"Octavarium"
"Metropolis Pt. 1"

Isn't this setlist way too long?
Title: Re: What grade do you give the Score set list?
Post by: emtee on April 28, 2014, 09:42:58 AM
I always wondered if MP was the only guy who picked the set list for that show or, since it was such a significant event, if all the
others were involved too. There is just no way to satisfy everyone in a situation like that. I would have loved to see ACOS as
the encore with the orchestra.
Title: Re: What grade do you give the Score set list?
Post by: Cool Chris on April 28, 2014, 11:05:37 AM
I always wondered if MP was the only guy who picked the set list for that show or, since it was such a significant event, if all the others were involved too.

Were the others ever invovled in those decisions?

Hard me to to rate this setlist, since one ~40 minute long song drags it down from a high B to a low D. B/B-.
Title: Re: What grade do you give the Score set list?
Post by: DarkLord_Lalinc on April 28, 2014, 12:13:09 PM
I always wondered if MP was the only guy who picked the set list for that show or, since it was such a significant event, if all the
others were involved too. There is just no way to satisfy everyone in a situation like that. I would have loved to see ACOS as
the encore with the orchestra.
MP was the main force driving the setlist truck for many years. It's well known that the other guys were comfortable with MP's decision taking in this department, so they just let him do his thing.
Title: Re: What grade do you give the Score set list?
Post by: KevShmev on April 28, 2014, 12:40:08 PM
Right, but I always figured that if one of the other guys really wanted to play a song, or really didn't want to play a song, he'd take that into strong consideration.
Title: Re: What grade do you give the Score set list?
Post by: Dublagent66 on April 28, 2014, 12:46:59 PM
I gave it an "A" since I think it is the best live recording they have produced so far with the variety of songs they had to pick from.  Although, the setlist itself could've been better I suppose.  That is totally a matter of opinion, but I look at how the chosen songs were performed.  Everything sounded great.
Title: Re: What grade do you give the Score set list?
Post by: emtee on April 28, 2014, 12:49:34 PM
I've been a fan since the day PMU hit radio so I'm aware of MP's set list background. I just wondered for this show only, since
everyone's family members were there and because it was a capsule of the entire career, if the others were involved this one
time.
Title: Re: What grade do you give the Score set list?
Post by: ReaPsTA on April 28, 2014, 12:58:13 PM
The setlist decisions in score were more political than creative.  It had to be three hours because of curfew.  It had to feature 5 songs from Octavarium (including TROAE to start the show and 8vm to close the second set), one from each other album, Another Won, an an encore of either Metropolis or WFS/LTL.

Because of the orchestra thing, certain songs had to be there.  You couldn't bring out an orchestra and not do Six Degrees, TALW, or SS (also, SS had to be there because of the New York factor).  You had to end with Metropolis, because it's one of the three most iconic DT songs.  You had to put in Raise the Knife for the FII section because it's such an excellent goodie.

So, when you consider all the decisions you're forced into because of politics, you have like no flexibility in the setlist:

TROAE
[8vm song]
Another Won
[WDADU song]
[I&W song]
[Awake song]
Raise the Knife
[SFaM song]

-------

Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence
[ToT song]
TALW
SS
8vm

-------

Metropolis

Also, you have less than an hour to work with because of the curfew.

So, what ended up happening is that a lot of shorter, less iconic songs ended up having to fill the gaps.
Title: Re: What grade do you give the Score set list?
Post by: KevShmev on April 28, 2014, 01:08:22 PM
Eh, most of those "had"s are not true at all. 

They didn't have to do five songs from 8V.

They didn't have to do SS because of NY.

They didn't have to have an orchestra in the first place.

etc.
Title: Re: What grade do you give the Score set list?
Post by: ReaPsTA on April 28, 2014, 01:29:05 PM
They didn't have to do five songs from 8V.

It was their setlist format from the tour.  They weren't going to change it.  They should have, but they weren't going to.

Quote
They didn't have to do SS because of NY.

It was a damned if you do damned if you don't thing.  Everyone was waiting for it.  No one would have been happy if it wasn't there.  No one's happy that it is.  It has too much symbolic meaning relative to how good a song is.

Quote
They didn't have to have an orchestra in the first place.

I agree, but the impression I get from the people at the show is that the orchestra was a huge thrill and made the night really special.

Another thing - they shouldn't have played at a venue with a curfew.  They needed to go extra innings for such a huge show.

But they didn't do these things, and so now we're debating the quality of their 25th anniversary show, something which shouldn't be happening.
Title: Re: What grade do you give the Score set list?
Post by: KevShmev on April 28, 2014, 01:39:02 PM
I don't agree about the venue.  RCMH is a famous place, and the show looks spectacular because it's there.  And it's not like three hours isn't enough time, especially when you think about the several minutes wasted with that pointless intro to The Spirit Carries On (which is awesome as is; no need for the extended intro, especially when on a time clock).
Title: Re: What grade do you give the Score set list?
Post by: Dream Team on April 28, 2014, 05:21:00 PM
Gave it a C. First set is an A, with amazing performances.  Second set ddrrraaaaaggggssss. And the Bucharest setlist will never be topped (or equaled).
Title: Re: What grade do you give the Score set list?
Post by: bosk1 on April 28, 2014, 05:43:57 PM
I don't agree about the venue.  RCMH is a famous place, and the show looks spectacular because it's there.  And it's not like three hours isn't enough time, especially when you think about the several minutes wasted with that pointless intro to The Spirit Carries On (which is awesome as is; no need for the extended intro, especially when on a time clock).

This.  And as much as I actually like Jordan's noodling around on the intro to Octavarium, I think the same holds true there as well.  I think each one of the "restrictions" Reap mentioned is perfectly valid, and I am glad they did it that way, even if it painted them into a corner.  But while I actually do like the set list quite a bit, it could have been a bit better with just a bit more planning. 

If they had to break one rule of the above, for me, it would have been the "5 songs from Octavarium" rule.  Take out TALW, which I think you would honestly be hard pressed to find more than a handful of fans who were glad it was included.  Remove that and the two solo spots, and suddenly, you have quite a bit more freedom.  In fact, you would have almost precisely the exact amount of time you would need to include SOC with orchestra after Vacant, which would have been truly epic, IMO. 
Title: Re: What grade do you give the Score set list?
Post by: Setlist Scotty on April 28, 2014, 06:24:31 PM
Right, but I always figured that if one of the other guys really wanted to play a song, or really didn't want to play a song, he'd take that into strong consideration.
And he did. When MP wanted to cover Ozzy's Revelation (Mother Earth), JL objected to it (he apparently hates that song), so MP chose Diary of a Madman instead.

The setlist decisions in score were more political than creative.  It had to be three hours because of curfew.  It had to feature 5 songs from Octavarium (including TROAE to start the show and 8vm to close the second set), one from each other album, Another Won, an an encore of either Metropolis or WFS/LTL.
I don't think it's quite that cut and dry. Yes, there was a curfew. But most of the setlist choices were because the songs had not been featured on a video previously. That's why you got Vacant, but not SOC (which just was on L@B). And MP bemoaned to me the fact that he included half of the title track to SDoIT on L@B, not realizing at the time he wrote the setlist for Budokan, that on the following tour they would do the RCMH show, but it was a given that the title track should be performed at this show.

And as for the "having to feature 5 songs from 8v", sorry chief, but you're wrong on that one. Besides the special shows where they covered another album and the shows that didn't have 2 sets separated by an intermission, there are other shows where there were not 5 songs from 8v. Here's what I found:
6 - https://www.mikeportnoy.com/dates/tourography/?show=869
6 - https://www.mikeportnoy.com/dates/tourography/?show=879
6 - https://www.mikeportnoy.com/dates/tourography/?show=880
6 - https://www.mikeportnoy.com/dates/tourography/?show=881
8 - https://www.mikeportnoy.com/dates/tourography/?show=882
6 - https://www.mikeportnoy.com/dates/tourography/?show=890
4 - https://www.mikeportnoy.com/dates/tourography/?show=894
8 - https://www.mikeportnoy.com/dates/tourography/?show=897
4 - https://www.mikeportnoy.com/dates/tourography/?show=909
4 - https://www.mikeportnoy.com/dates/tourography/?show=911
4 - https://www.mikeportnoy.com/dates/tourography/?show=914
3 - https://www.mikeportnoy.com/dates/tourography/?show=915
4 - https://www.mikeportnoy.com/dates/tourography/?show=916
4 - https://www.mikeportnoy.com/dates/tourography/?show=917
4 - https://www.mikeportnoy.com/dates/tourography/?show=920
4 - https://www.mikeportnoy.com/dates/tourography/?show=921
3 - https://www.mikeportnoy.com/dates/tourography/?show=922
4 - https://www.mikeportnoy.com/dates/tourography/?show=923

So while more than half the shows featured 5 8v songs, there are enough shows to prove that this was not a requirement as you suggest.
Title: Re: What grade do you give the Score set list?
Post by: Madman Shepherd on April 28, 2014, 08:27:07 PM


If they had to break one rule of the above, for me, it would have been the "5 songs from Octavarium" rule.  Take out TALW, which I think you would honestly be hard pressed to find more than a handful of fans who were glad it was included.

Except they would probably never really care to play that again, as evidenced by every tour since then, and the mediocre fan reaction, so it was probably their only chance to put it on a live album. 
Title: Re: What grade do you give the Score set list?
Post by: KevShmev on April 28, 2014, 10:01:21 PM
A number of those songs haven't been played at all, or barely played, since the RCMH show.  Hindsight can be a funny thing, but several of those songs definitely look like curious choices when you consider that.  Hell, even Innocence Faded has barely been played live ever.  Not sure how much it was played on the Awake tour (it wasn't on the first leg, which I saw), but, aside from the ending being tacked on to the end of Scarred on the FII tour, I think the handful of times it was played around the time of the RCMH show is about all it has been played live.

As for Revelation (Mother Earth), I wonder if JLB really hates that song, or if he was just worried that he couldn't do it justice (Ozzy is hardly a great vocalist, but he has some songs that I can't imagine anyone else singing well, simply because of how unusual his delivery is).
Title: Re: What grade do you give the Score set list?
Post by: Setlist Scotty on April 28, 2014, 10:59:20 PM
If they had to break one rule of the above, for me, it would have been the "5 songs from Octavarium" rule.  Take out TALW, which I think you would honestly be hard pressed to find more than a handful of fans who were glad it was included.
Except they would probably never really care to play that again, as evidenced by every tour since then, and the mediocre fan reaction, so it was probably their only chance to put it on a live album.
I actually thought about that, and I agree that's probably one of the reasons why MP included it in the set. Otherwise, I can imagine IWBY actually being in its place, sounding good with the orchestra, and freeing up the space of the second song (following TRoAE) for something else like Panic Attack.
 
 
A number of those songs haven't been played at all, or barely played, since the RCMH show.  Hindsight can be a funny thing, but several of those songs definitely look like curious choices when you consider that. 
I wouldn't put it passed MP to have included some of the song choices just for the rarely played factor.
 
 
Hell, even Innocence Faded has barely been played live ever.  Not sure how much it was played on the Awake tour (it wasn't on the first leg, which I saw), but, aside from the ending being tacked on to the end of Scarred on the FII tour, I think the handful of times it was played around the time of the RCMH show is about all it has been played live.
IF is definitely one of the most rarely played songs from Awake, altho it actually was played on the first few dates of the Waking Up the World tour before being dropped. Then, as you said, they resurrected the instrumental outro, which they tacked on to 6:00 for some later Waking Up the World shows, besides adding it at the end of Scarred for some shows (tho I believe those shows were from World Tourbulence, not Touring Into Infinity), playing it for some late 1995 shows, and finally including it at shows on the last leg of the 20th Anniversary tour.
Title: Re: What grade do you give the Score set list?
Post by: ReaPsTA on April 28, 2014, 11:45:59 PM
And as for the "having to feature 5 songs from 8v", sorry chief, but you're wrong on that one. Besides the special shows where they covered another album and the shows that didn't have 2 sets separated by an intermission, there are other shows where there were not 5 songs from 8v. Here's what I found:
6 - https://www.mikeportnoy.com/dates/tourography/?show=869
6 - https://www.mikeportnoy.com/dates/tourography/?show=879
6 - https://www.mikeportnoy.com/dates/tourography/?show=880
6 - https://www.mikeportnoy.com/dates/tourography/?show=881
8 - https://www.mikeportnoy.com/dates/tourography/?show=882
6 - https://www.mikeportnoy.com/dates/tourography/?show=890
4 - https://www.mikeportnoy.com/dates/tourography/?show=894
8 - https://www.mikeportnoy.com/dates/tourography/?show=897
4 - https://www.mikeportnoy.com/dates/tourography/?show=909
4 - https://www.mikeportnoy.com/dates/tourography/?show=911
4 - https://www.mikeportnoy.com/dates/tourography/?show=914
3 - https://www.mikeportnoy.com/dates/tourography/?show=915
4 - https://www.mikeportnoy.com/dates/tourography/?show=916
4 - https://www.mikeportnoy.com/dates/tourography/?show=917
4 - https://www.mikeportnoy.com/dates/tourography/?show=920
4 - https://www.mikeportnoy.com/dates/tourography/?show=921
3 - https://www.mikeportnoy.com/dates/tourography/?show=922
4 - https://www.mikeportnoy.com/dates/tourography/?show=923

So while more than half the shows featured 5 8v songs, there are enough shows to prove that this was not a requirement as you suggest.

Now I'm just really confused.  Only having 4 8vm songs would have really helped the set as a whole.

Hell, even Innocence Faded has barely been played live ever.  Not sure how much it was played on the Awake tour (it wasn't on the first leg, which I saw), but, aside from the ending being tacked on to the end of Scarred on the FII tour, I think the handful of times it was played around the time of the RCMH show is about all it has been played live.

Weirdly, IF is the one semi-obscure song on the album that I actually really really like.  Because Score's production is so different from Awake's (more emphasize on tone, midrange, and an overall sweeter sound), it's cool to hear Innocence Faded (a very melodic song) in an environment that shows its strengths in a different way from the album.  The performance is virtually perfect, and the song in general is underrated.

But most of the setlist choices were because the songs had not been featured on a video previously. That's why you got Vacant, but not SOC (which just was on L@B). And MP bemoaned to me the fact that he included half of the title track to SDoIT on L@B, not realizing at the time he wrote the setlist for Budokan, that on the following tour they would do the RCMH show, but it was a given that the title track should be performed at this show.

I mean, it's not like I don't see the logic in this at all, but to me it doesn't mean very much.  Like, the LAB Six Degrees songs and the versions on Score aren't even the same songs to me.  The orchestra, production, and performances make them so different.  SoC is on Budokan, but I'm down for a version with an orchestra.  There's enough room in the world for three versions of the song (including the studio one).
Title: Re: What grade do you give the Score set list?
Post by: PixelDream on April 29, 2014, 04:59:58 AM
Score presents Dream Theater as a symphonic, progressive band. As much as I love the heavy Train of Thought material, I really prefer the expansiveness of the music that's on Score. Lots of rare songs (the rendition of Raise the Knife is just great), and their big epics (Octavarium, Six Degrees) make for a very interesting setlist. Adding to that, even 'The Spirit Carries On' gets improved on greatly when compared to LSFNY.
Title: Re: What grade do you give the Score set list?
Post by: Dream Team on April 29, 2014, 09:38:32 AM
Regarding Innocence Faded, I just think that 2nd verse precludes if from being played live most of the time (kind of the same situation as Take The Time).
Title: Re: What grade do you give the Score set list?
Post by: kirksnosehair on April 29, 2014, 12:45:40 PM
D

Octavarium is my least favorite DT album and this setlist is loaded with it. I realize they were touring for it with it being the current album and all so I completely cut them slack for having that much of it on there. Where I don't cut them slack is leaving out two of the three songs I can most tolerate from it (TW and PA.) Beyond that, Innocence Faded, The Spirit Carries on, SDOIT, and Vacant are all close to being my least favorite songs from their albums. Having Metropolis and Afterlife were huge bonuses for it though and Anther Won was a nice song for me to discover. All in all, however, I've watched this thing like maybe 3 or 4 times ever and haven't watched it in like 5 years at least. It's just too tedious to sit through all the stuff I, at best, only slightly dislike.


I feel similarly about Octavarium.    Score is not a DVD I watch too often either.  Dream Theater doing impressions of U2 and Muse....didn't really connect with me.  This all happened during that "Inspiration Corner" era. 




They've been doing U2 impressions almost since day 1.


Such as?
Title: Re: What grade do you give the Score set list?
Post by: robwebster on April 29, 2014, 12:48:43 PM
I think To Live Forever was U2 influenced, wasn't it? That's pre James LaBrie, I think.* Speak to Me, massively, a few years later. It's a voice they've always toyed around with.



*From Spyro Gyra, right?
Title: Re: What grade do you give the Score set list?
Post by: ZirconBlue on April 29, 2014, 12:52:19 PM
I think To Live Forever was U2 influenced, wasn't it? That's pre James LaBrie, I think.* Speak to Me, massively, a few years later. It's a voice they've always toyed around with.

 


*From Spyro Gyra, right?

To Live Forever was specifically directly inspired by U2 after the band saw "Rattle & Hum".
Title: Re: What grade do you give the Score set list?
Post by: robwebster on April 29, 2014, 12:57:21 PM
Hurrah! I knew I remembered something like that. A quick Google search for "to live forever" u2 didn't turn up much, and adding "dream theater" was little better. Thank you!
Title: Re: What grade do you give the Score set list?
Post by: KevShmev on April 29, 2014, 01:02:42 PM
Okay, but DT's U2-inspired songs still sound almost nothing like U2.  Many like to say I Walk Beside You sounds like U2, but, no, it really doesn't.  I mean, if you only know U2 casually, I can see why one might think that, but as a longtime huge fan of the band, that song sounds nothing like U2.
Title: Re: What grade do you give the Score set list?
Post by: robwebster on April 29, 2014, 01:24:03 PM
On the other hand... you're a longtime huge fan of the band! You know them a lot, lot better than anyone else - and that probably makes your criteria for "sounds like U2" a lot narrower. I know my dogs' faces, so I could easily pick them out of a lineup of the same breed, but to anyone else they'd just look like... a row of similar dogs!

I'm a huge, huge fan of Muse, and wouldn't say Prophets of War sounds anything like them aside from the Take a Bow intro. It's got more Queen and Metallica. But people disagree!
Title: Re: What grade do you give the Score set list?
Post by: Invisible on April 29, 2014, 05:06:08 PM
I'm also a big fan of U2 and I definitely hear the influences on To Live Forever(The Unforgettable Fire-Joshua Tree-R&H era), some bits of Lifting Shadows(the last chorus, not the overall feel of the song), Speak To Me, The Way It Used To Be, Trial of Tears. Not to say they sound similar at all, I can't imagine U2 coming up with none of those or I Walk Beside You(actually U2 never done something that poppy as that song), but the influences are there. I remember picking out more, but right now I'm not listening to either. But I think the main influence U2 has is on DT is some of JP writing style, the whole spiritual/christian imaginary(am I spelling it right?) thing sometimes has similar points, again, not saying they are carbon copies or obvious.

As for the thread topic, I'm torn between A- and B+. I wasn't thrilled at all when I saw the setlist, but when I listened to the concert I was amazed, and I wasn't a fan back then, it was my very first exposure to a lot of songs, Six Degrees included and it floored me. Having two epics was amazing, but I think ACOS would've been overkill on top of the other two. Could it have been been better? Without the orcherstra, definetely, but since they had that they took full advantage. I thought Vacant followed by The Answer Lies Within was a beautiful moment and I don't like the latter at all. And I would've skipped SS but I understand why it's there. The intro of The Spirit Carries On doesn't work on relisten, but the first time was amazing.

Would I've chose the same songs? Hell no. It is unbalanced and everything, and Raise The Knife, as good as it is, is a poor representation of FII, so is Innocence Faded compared to Caught In A Web or Lifting Shadows to make it breathe a little, but still a great show so I can't complain about anything.
Title: Re: What grade do you give the Score set list?
Post by: Invisible on April 29, 2014, 05:10:18 PM
I'm a huge, huge fan of Muse, and wouldn't say Prophets of War sounds anything like them aside from the Take a Bow intro. It's got more Queen and Metallica. But people disagree!
Well, Muse have a strong Queen influence in quite a number of songs so saying you hear the other is not exactly denying it. I hear both, the Muse-ism is the electronic Take A Bow plus that riff and James way of singing that makes the combo for people saying it sounds like Muse.
Title: Re: What grade do you give the Score set list?
Post by: TAC on April 30, 2014, 02:13:15 PM
I finally bought this on DVD, after avoiding it for so long because of what I always considered a pretty mediocre-looking set list.  After watching it, though, I think a little more of it, thanks to Set 1 coming off better than it looks on paper.  The performances of Afterlife, Raise the Knife, Under a Glass Moon and Innocence Faded are all dynamite, and that is a nice rendition of Another Won.  And ending a set with The Spirit Carries On is always good.

On the flip side, Set 2 is largely unimpressive, for me.  I don't care for 6DOIT as a single piece, and having it as one track on the DVD is really annoying.  I like Vacant, but with the orchestra, no thanks. The Answer Lies Within and Sacrificed Sons were both snoozers.  However, the performance of Octavarium was pretty spectacular.  I mainly bought the DVD because I wanted that to be on at least one of the live DT DVDs I own.  Metropolis as the encore is obviously great. 

Ultimately, I think having the orchestra restricted them, as they obviously felt like they had to do songs that heavily featured strings, like 6DOIT (thanks to the overture) and The Answer Lies Within.  But it severely lessened the set list.

Overall, I'll give the set list a B-, but considering it was an anniversary show and set list, it only gets a C from me.

I agree Kev. I remember getting up the morning after and seeing the set, thinking, damn, I'm glad I got what I got in Boston the show before.

That first disc is incredible. Another Won, Raise The Knife, Innocence Faded are great performances.

Plus:
And this tour is what made me a fan of Afterlife, and this is the best recording we have of that.
Same here.


BUT, I am also not a fan of wasting 42 minutes on 6 D's.  And as one track?? But I have played the shit out of that first disc.

I Walk Besides You is a killer song live. I wasn't a fan of it really, but when they played it in Boston it went over fantastic.
Title: Re: What grade do you give the Score set list?
Post by: DarkLord_Lalinc on April 30, 2014, 02:41:49 PM
Right, but I always figured that if one of the other guys really wanted to play a song, or really didn't want to play a song, he'd take that into strong consideration.
This was probably the case, although there were a couple of things that made me think. JLB has stated that New Millennium is one of his least favorite DT tunes, and that song was played regularly during the 6DOIT and TOT tours. Maybe JLB didn't care much about the song being played or he didn't speak his mind back then, I don't know; but there were a couple of DT live show peculiarities over MP's last years in the band that made me wonder about these subject matters.
Title: Re: What grade do you give the Score set list?
Post by: robwebster on April 30, 2014, 02:44:26 PM
I'm a huge, huge fan of Muse, and wouldn't say Prophets of War sounds anything like them aside from the Take a Bow intro. It's got more Queen and Metallica. But people disagree!
Well, Muse have a strong Queen influence in quite a number of songs so saying you hear the other is not exactly denying it. I hear both, the Muse-ism is the electronic Take A Bow plus that riff and James way of singing that makes the combo for people saying it sounds like Muse.
Muse didn't really channel Queen that much 'til The Resistance, which didn't come out until after BCSL! I think the Queen influence has more to do with DT being fans of Queen than DT being fans of Muse who are fans of Queen.
Title: Re: What grade do you give the Score set list?
Post by: Rodni Demental on April 30, 2014, 05:51:35 PM
Just sayin.. Regarding 2 songs. 6DOIT and TALW. Both of these tracks are perfect for Score. I won't argue that Six Degrees was a flawless performance, but it's a very strong performance and I tend to listen to it over the studio one, but mainly because it always feels fresh and different. Who cares about the time, it was the perfect chance to play it and it's right where it needs to be on Score (Same with 8vm, except I don't know how we could get a better version of this one). I feel the same way about The Answer Lies Within, it's absolutely the definitive version of the song, this one I will say is flawless and I hardly ever listen to the Octavarium version unless I'm listening to the whole album. Besides, if it's really as unpopular as the impression some people will put off, then at least we've got the definitive version out of the way and it won't need to be in any other releases. Unlike some songs that really need an update (ACOS).
Title: Re: What grade do you give the Score set list?
Post by: KevShmev on April 30, 2014, 11:37:16 PM
I finally bought this on DVD, after avoiding it for so long because of what I always considered a pretty mediocre-looking set list.  After watching it, though, I think a little more of it, thanks to Set 1 coming off better than it looks on paper.  The performances of Afterlife, Raise the Knife, Under a Glass Moon and Innocence Faded are all dynamite, and that is a nice rendition of Another Won.  And ending a set with The Spirit Carries On is always good.

On the flip side, Set 2 is largely unimpressive, for me.  I don't care for 6DOIT as a single piece, and having it as one track on the DVD is really annoying.  I like Vacant, but with the orchestra, no thanks. The Answer Lies Within and Sacrificed Sons were both snoozers.  However, the performance of Octavarium was pretty spectacular.  I mainly bought the DVD because I wanted that to be on at least one of the live DT DVDs I own.  Metropolis as the encore is obviously great. 

Ultimately, I think having the orchestra restricted them, as they obviously felt like they had to do songs that heavily featured strings, like 6DOIT (thanks to the overture) and The Answer Lies Within.  But it severely lessened the set list.

Overall, I'll give the set list a B-, but considering it was an anniversary show and set list, it only gets a C from me.

I agree Kev. I remember getting up the morning after and seeing the set, thinking, damn, I'm glad I got what I got in Boston the show before.

 

I remember getting home that night and checking dt.net to see what the set list was.  And when I did, I was like, "Wait, that is what they played?  That was their 20th anniversary set list?"  It was just so underwhelming.  And I was not alone in that regard at the time.
Title: Re: What grade do you give the Score set list?
Post by: GPedrosa on April 30, 2014, 11:50:37 PM
That's great for me, but could be so much better.
Title: Re: What grade do you give the Score set list?
Post by: Podaar on October 30, 2017, 09:01:14 AM
This weekend I had occasion to be in the kitchen for hours and picked Score to be my soundtrack to cooking. I haven't listened to this concert in nearly 10 years and I was floored with how effortlessly awesome it was...and all from what I would consider a "B" list of DT tunes.

Now, maybe it's because I'd spent the past couple of weeks exploring newly released music and struggling to find "the awesome" in them: or maybe it's just that at this point in time DT was just a spectacular live act (JLB sounded great): perhaps it was just my mood, but man this was a very uplifting listen and I was singing along and really enjoying myself. It's been awhile since music has moved me like that.

Just imagine if the first disc had more killer and less filler and if the orchestra would have been in tune with the band on the other discs!  :lol
Title: Re: What grade do you give the Score set list?
Post by: don_waka on October 30, 2017, 09:23:25 AM
A.

This is actually their last live performance without crappy songs on it.


 :hefdaddy Raise the Knife
Title: Re: What grade do you give the Score set list?
Post by: Grappler on October 30, 2017, 09:29:04 AM
F.  I really dislike Octavarium and it's my least favorite DT record.

I love the ideas of playing a suite of songs in order based on each album's release date, and I love the performance of Metropolis with an orchestra.  Beyond that, the only songs I care for on this album are Under a Glass Moon, Innocence Faded and Metropolis. 

I've never been a fan of the full SDIOT suite, nor the title track to Octavarium, so those performances don't have much worth to me.  Also agree that it's a very underwhelming set for a 20th anniversary show with very few hits, and a lot of under-played classics.
Title: Re: What grade do you give the Score set list?
Post by: nattmorker on October 30, 2017, 01:10:05 PM
C. It was a good setlist, I love Octavarium & SDOIT but I don't care much for The Answer lies within and Raise the Knife, I would prefer something like Hell's Kitchen, JLMB (I know I'm in the minority about that song) or LITS for the FII spot.
Title: Re: What grade do you give the Score set list?
Post by: El Barto on October 30, 2017, 01:12:22 PM
I'd probably give it a C, or maybe C-.  I Squawk Beside You was really a bummer coming after Root, and I'd be happy never hearing Spirit again. Otherwise the first half was rock-solid. The second set was built around the orchestra, and for the most part it was wasted effort. I was just fine with 6°, but a lot of the other stuff just didn't work for me. I gather they were wanting to do Sacrificed Sons because of NYC and all, but it came across as dull. 8V was great, but Metropolis was a let down. I think it was Setlist Scotty that said they should have gone with LtL instead, and he's absolutely correct. The orchestra could have been made to work with that, but shoe-horning it into Metro kind of sucked.

I enjoyed the show and I'm happy to have been there, but the LSfNY show would have totally kicked its ass. In fact, using Live Scenes as a benchmark, Score just got downgraded to a D.
Title: Re: What grade do you give the Score set list?
Post by: cramx3 on October 30, 2017, 01:47:44 PM
Went with B, but maybe more so a B-.  Gets lots of praise for songs like Another Won and Raising the Knife, but for me, mostly loses out with 6DOIT.  It's not one of my favorite DT tracks and it takes up so much set time, plus is actually one track on the CD/DVD  :facepalm: .  Having Octavarium also really helps the setlist.  I personally really like Sacrificed Sons here as well. 
Title: Re: What grade do you give the Score set list?
Post by: mikeyd23 on October 30, 2017, 01:56:28 PM
Gave it a B a couple years ago when this poll opened, and I'd still stick with that.
Title: Re: What grade do you give the Score set list?
Post by: Dave_Manchester on October 30, 2017, 02:06:48 PM
I'll give it a C. The first disc is an interesting survey of their albums up that point, with a couple of rarities thrown in. Disc 2 is the weakest of the 3. I'm not a fan of the song Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence, and so making it all one track (plus the very flat orchestral intro/overture) doesn't endear me to it. Disc 3 is magnificent.

Live at Budokan and Breaking The Fourth Wall are my two favourite live releases of theirs in terms of setlist.
Title: Re: What grade do you give the Score set list?
Post by: The Walrus on October 30, 2017, 02:08:01 PM
I think the set for Score is incredible. A+. Honestly, I think it's the only time I listen to Sacrificed Sons!
Title: Re: What grade do you give the Score set list?
Post by: Podaar on October 30, 2017, 02:12:24 PM
Just to clarify, I bumped this thread because I listened to this album over the weekend for the first time in a decade. I agree with all the sentiments that it's a sub-par set list by DT's standards. (I originally gave it a C in this poll)

My larger point was even with all that going against it it was infinitely more enjoyable and effortlessly more impressive than every bit of music I've been struggling to find enjoyment from over the past several weeks.
Title: Re: What grade do you give the Score set list?
Post by: Dublagent66 on October 30, 2017, 02:56:21 PM
As I said in my original post when this thread was made, the set list itself is highly subjective and I can see why some don't prefer it to other shows.  But, I think the venue, the sound and the performance more than make up for it.  That said, I really didn't mind the set list and still don't.  I never really cared for SS, but it sounded good on the DVD.  Afterlife and Another Won were awesome.  Don't think I ever heard RTK before that DVD came out and the live version is awesome.  Overall, even though the orchestra sounded a little quirky from time to time, I enjoyed Score very much.  Still do.
Title: Re: What grade do you give the Score set list?
Post by: MirrorMask on October 31, 2017, 04:16:41 AM
My only minor complaint is that Falling Into Infinity had no "proper" songs on the set, just a leftover. Sure, that leftover is better than half the album probably, and I understand that with the time contraints something had to give, but to have an album song and a b-side song off FII during the "normal" shows and having just a leftover in the DVD, feels a bit incomplete.

Technically, every album and even the demo got a song released on said album played live, but Falling Into Infinity didn't.
Title: Re: What grade do you give the Score set list?
Post by: pg1067 on November 03, 2017, 03:15:38 PM
I'll start with the caveat that I got this on DVD very soon after it came out and have watched it many times, but I usually focus on the orchestra songs.

The Root of All Evil:  I'd have preferred Panic Attack, but TRoAE is a good opener.
I Walk Beside You:  Worst song on 8VA.  HATE the chorus.
Another Won:  Meh...
Afterlife:  It's an ok song, but there are many better songs on WDADU.
Under a Glass Moon:  I'm in the minority here, but I've never been a fan of this song.
Innocence Faded:  One of the worst songs on Awake.
Raise the Knife:  I don't know this song other than its appearance on Score.  I know it's an MP-fanboy favorite, but I don't recall being impressed by it.
The Spirit Carries On:  It's fine in the context of SFAM as a whole, but I'm not a huge fan of it as a stand-alone song.

SDOIT:  LOVE LOVE LOVE this -- especially with the orchestra!
Vacant:  It's a cool piece for what it is, but nothing remarkable.
The Answer Lies Within:  Solid choice.
Sacrificed Sons:  Love it.
8VA:  Same comments as with SDOIT.  The MP backing vocals really stand out here.  Only negative is the expanded JR-wanking intro, which I almost always FFWD through.
Metropolis:  Love, but it didn't benefit much from having the orchestra.

All in all, the second set gets a strong A, but the first set is no better than a C- (so I guess that averages to a B or B-).
Title: Re: What grade do you give the Score set list?
Post by: bosk1 on November 03, 2017, 03:21:33 PM
Okay, but the thing is, once they decided to play SDOIT, which you say you love, that pretty much locked in the entire rest of the set list.  I would have loved a few substitutions here and there.  But there really is very little room to have changed hardly ANYTHING in the set. 
Title: Re: What grade do you give the Score set list?
Post by: TAC on November 03, 2017, 03:40:21 PM
Okay, but the thing is, once they decided to play SDOIT, which you say you love, that pretty much locked in the entire rest of the set list.  I would have loved a few substitutions here and there.  But there really is very little room to have changed hardly ANYTHING in the set.

Exactly.

Honestly, devoting 40+ minutes to 6 D's would be my complaint.
Title: Re: What grade do you give the Score set list?
Post by: pg1067 on November 03, 2017, 04:26:01 PM
Okay, but the thing is, once they decided to play SDOIT, which you say you love, that pretty much locked in the entire rest of the set list.  I would have loved a few substitutions here and there.  But there really is very little room to have changed hardly ANYTHING in the set.

I guess this is directed at me, but it doesn't make much sense.  Nothing in the first set is "locked in."  Maybe I'm not understanding your point, and it's obviously a subjective thing, but if I were picking songs for the non-orchestra set (the orchestra set is fine as is):

1. Play Panic Attack instead of Root (they're almost exactly the same length).
2. Another Won can stay as being representative of the pre-WDADU period.
3. Swap out Afterlife for The Killing Hand or Only a Matter of Time (+1-3 minutes).
4. Drop I Walk Beside You (that more than makes up for using a longer WDADU song, and there are already plenty of 8VA songs).
5. Substitute Surrounded for UAGM (-1.5 minutes).
6. Substitute 6:00 or Lifting Shadows for Innocence Faded (6:00 is almost exactly the same length, and LSOAD is only about 30 seconds longer).
7. Substitute Burning My Soul and Hell's Kitchen for Raise the Knife (-2 minutes).
8. Substitute Fatal Tragedy for TSCO (or, since the I&W and FII substitutions save about 3.5 minutes, play Home or Finally Free).
Title: Re: What grade do you give the Score set list?
Post by: bosk1 on November 03, 2017, 05:05:17 PM
Okay, but the thing is, once they decided to play SDOIT, which you say you love, that pretty much locked in the entire rest of the set list.  I would have loved a few substitutions here and there.  But there really is very little room to have changed hardly ANYTHING in the set.

I guess this is directed at me, but it doesn't make much sense.  Nothing in the first set is "locked in." 

Yeah, it was locked in because of the pre-determined format of the show.  They were featuring Octavarium AND going chronologically through their career.  AND they had severe time constraints on that show (and were fined for going over as it was).  Most of the Octavarium songs were locked in.  But I'll go through your list.

1. Play Panic Attack instead of Root (they're almost exactly the same length).

I love Panic Attack, but there was no way this was going to happen.  They were opening shows on the tour with Root.  That was a lock.  And given that they wanted to use the Octavarium album as a theme, there was no way they were going to open the show that got filmed with anything but the album opener.

2. Another Won can stay as being representative of the pre-WDADU period.

Yeah, that was a lock as well.  They had few options for the Majesty period, and this was the best they could have chosen, IMO.

3. Swap out Afterlife for The Killing Hand or Only a Matter of Time (+1-3 minutes).

The time crunch is the problem.  There is no way they could add longer songs unless they swapped in something shorter somewhere else in the show, and there weren't really many opportunities to do that.  I'm with you that those are better songs.  But no way they could do either of them.

4. Drop I Walk Beside You (that more than makes up for using a longer WDADU song, and there are already plenty of 8VA songs).

As with Root, this was a lock from Octavarium.  It was the lead single.  No way they aren't playing it on that tour.

5. Substitute Surrounded for UAGM (-1.5 minutes).

Yeah, this would work, since it was shorter.  I'm not sure it buys them much though.  That isn't really gaining much time, and IMO, it is a lesser song, so there isn't really incentive to do that.  But yeah, it is a possibility that could have worked.

6. Substitute 6:00 or Lifting Shadows for Innocence Faded (6:00 is almost exactly the same length, and LSOAD is only about 30 seconds longer).

For my personal tastes, 6:00 would have been nice.  But a LOT of people were happy with Innocence Faded, given that it hadn't really been played.  See my prior comments about longer songs for LSOAD.  Plus, I'm not feeling like they needed another softer, atmospheric song.  They had enough of that.

7. Substitute Burning My Soul and Hell's Kitchen for Raise the Knife (-2 minutes).

They've never played that combo, so I'm not seeing it.  They could have also saved time with Peruvian Skies, which WAS played on the tour.  But understand that you are in a minority on wanting anything but RTK.  Fans overall were REALLY glad they pulled that one out.  But yes, I concede that they theoretically COULD HAVE saved time in the FII spot.

8. Substitute Fatal Tragedy for TSCO (or, since the I&W and FII substitutions save about 3.5 minutes, play Home or Finally Free).

I was starting to feel TSCO burnout by this time.  But it's sort of a "hit," and the atmosphere fit the show well.  And to make room for those other songs, again, time constraints.

Look, I'm not arguing that it wasn't technically possible to make some changes here and there.  But given what they wanted to do, what songs they had rehearsed and prepared for the tour already, and the constraints they were under, they really didn't have much wiggle room.  They had some.  But not much.  I was giddy when they played the last two parts of SDOIT at the show just before the NYC show, because I was SURE that that meant Six Degrees in its entirety.  I'm really glad they did it.  But doing that came at a price in terms of what else they could do with the set list.  In an ideal world, they wouldn't have had to worry about time constraints and could have done a few things differently.  But given what they had to work with, they had to pretty much rely on the shortest songs available in most spots.  I can't really criticize.
Title: Re: What grade do you give the Score set list?
Post by: Madman Shepherd on November 03, 2017, 05:13:20 PM


2. Another Won can stay as being representative of the pre-WDADU period.

Yeah, that was a lock as well.  They had few options for the Majesty period, and this was the best they could have chosen, IMO.



I think that was also the first song they had written as a band at Berklee so that one would absolutely be played at this show. 
Title: Re: What grade do you give the Score set list?
Post by: Adami on November 03, 2017, 05:56:37 PM
As a set list? I loved it. I would get rid of TSCO, but I would always get rid of that song. Replace it with something more interesting.

The execution of some stuff like 6DOIT was a bit of a let down, but I think as a set list it was great.
Title: Re: What grade do you give the Score set list?
Post by: TheCountOfNYC on November 03, 2017, 07:11:07 PM
I gave it a B. It’s a great set list but not their best (that would be LSFNY). There’s a few songs that bring it down and could have been replaced by something better (Innocence Faded for example) but having all of SDoIT and 8vm makes it amazing, and other songs like AW, UaGM, RtK, TSCO, SS, and Metropolis make it even better.
Title: Re: What grade do you give the Score set list?
Post by: DT1138 on November 15, 2017, 09:33:29 AM
Performance: A
Setlist: C

Perhaps I would have enjoyed it more in person.  My least favorite list of songs ever done by DT.  And throw all the rocks or whatever you want at me....not a fan of Spirit Carries On.
Title: Re: What grade do you give the Score set list?
Post by: pg1067 on November 15, 2017, 10:58:06 AM
Yeah, it was locked in because of the pre-determined format of the show.  They were featuring Octavarium AND going chronologically through their career.  AND they had severe time constraints on that show (and were fined for going over as it was).  Most of the Octavarium songs were locked in.  But I'll go through your list.

My point was that choosing to play SDOIT didn't "lock in" anything else.  There may well have been many reasons why the band felt constrained to play some of the songs they did, but those reasons have little or nothing to do with playing SDOIT.  And, I was aware of the time issues, which is why I kept the running count of how my choices for other songs impacted the overall set length.  Ultimately, this is all about personal preferences, and none of this will take us back in time and change what they did.
Title: Re: What grade do you give the Score set list?
Post by: bosk1 on November 15, 2017, 11:10:09 AM
My point was that choosing to play SDOIT didn't "lock in" anything else.  There may well have been many reasons why the band felt constrained to play some of the songs they did, but those reasons have little or nothing to do with playing SDOIT.

I'm not sure how you can possibly say that.  I mean, I think it's pretty clear how and why they were locked in once they decided to go with SDOIT, but...okay.  :dunno:
Title: Re: What grade do you give the Score set list?
Post by: Chino on November 15, 2017, 11:14:08 AM
Great setlist for a concert, but a poor setlist for a live DVD. We already had live recordings of several of the songs, and too much was from a single album. It didn't really feel like it did the "20 year anniversary" justice.

That being said, I was in the 8th row and loved every second of the show.
Title: Re: What grade do you give the Score set list?
Post by: Lethean on November 15, 2017, 12:00:52 PM
I gave it an A. Had I been allowed to choose the setlist it probably would have been different, but this is still a great set and it turned out so well.  I like most of the songs on Awake better than Innocence Faded, for example, but after hearing it I'm glad they did it - it turned out so well and I'm glad to have this version.
Title: Re: What grade do you give the Score set list?
Post by: robbob on December 16, 2017, 11:12:38 PM
Just gave the DVD a listen after not hearing it for about 2 years.  Gave the setlist a B grade. Only thing that pulls it down for me were IWBY, Vacant and TALW. All kind of meh songs. Sacrificed Sons is not one of my favorites either.

Orchestra set was cool, obviously made sense to do the whole 6 Degrees suite along with Octavarium, Metropolis is always awesome.

But what I really love about it is the run of songs on the first set, from Another Won thru Raise the Knife. All great songs with just enough Prog, straight Rock and Melodic stuff without going overboard on any one style. Think it works great. The whole first set is a good intro for newcomers to DT's music.

Overall the band is on fire, easily best sounding live recording of the band, the mix of all instruments is perfect to me. And James is awesome, enough said.