DreamTheaterForums.org Dream Theater Fan Site
Dream Theater => Dream Theater => Topic started by: WildeSilas on December 16, 2013, 04:03:23 PM
-
So I was thinking about this and the obvious answer is "no." They surely wouldn't mention KM or DS, so why MP? But then I considered the fact that at this point in their career, these Grammy nominations aren't coming so much because DT is making better albums than they were ten or twenty years ago. Much like Jethro Tull years ago with the Metallica fiasco, the nominations are a nod to DT's longevity and arguably their entire body of work.
That said, I think it's absolutely unnecessary to thank MP in an acceptance speech because the guys are always moving and looking forward not back. MP had no association with either of the last two albums, so why mention him at all? At the same time, it might be classy on their part to throw his name into the "thank you's" to acknowledge his considerable contribution to their career up to this point. Plus, it kind of sucks for MP that they started getting these nominations right after he quits. Tbh, I've been a little uncomfortable with how quick some of the other band members are to point out that the writing team has always been JR and JP, when MP was obviously a big part of it as well. You can't re-write that history and I think it would be a cool move on their part to tip their hat to him in that scenario.
Thoughts?
-
Yes they should, in the same way that they'll thank their families, even though they had no hand in writing the actual song they're nominated for. Without Portnoy's work, Dream Theater would not be where they are, they would have nowhere near the fame and respect they now have, so he deserves a nod in my opinion, out of respect for his 25 years.
-
Perhaps MP was not involved in writing the last two albums, but the band has definitely come a long way musically, and a lot of the influence and the sound that now is part of the essence of the band have come from elements brought in by MP in the time he was present. On the other hand, I'm not quite sure if all the members of the band would be quite comfortable with doing it, and it wouldn't be appropriate to do something when not everyone agrees since it can lead to further issues.
I guess one also has to consider that MP's departure was rather voluntary and it could've brought much more trouble than it did (as far as we know), and he could have been a member of the band and get nominated (most likely, considering I'm with those who believe the nominations are partly a nod at the endurance and relevance the band has gained) if it had been his decision.
I don't really know if he would be mentioned if it was up to me. It would be a nice thing to do and I think MP would appreciate it a lot, but what is going on at the moment is the most important thing and if everyone isn't up to it (or if anyone actually feels like throwing in the idea of giving a shout out to MP) they shouldn't really do it.
-
No.
Next?
-
I think if the mic ends up closest to JP, JR or perhaps even MM, it'll happen and if it ends up closest to JLB it won't. And if it ends up closest to JMX the world will explode.
-
"We would like to thank Mike Portnoy for quitting the band. If he was still in the band, we probably wouldn't have written this song, and wouldn't have been nominated for a Grammy."
-
"We would like to thank Mike Portnoy for quitting the band. If he was still in the band, we probably wouldn't have written this song, and wouldn't have been nominated for a Grammy."
:omg: Yeah, that. :tup That's a bit dark, but yeah, they are not going to say that.
-
They're not going to win, so it probably doesn't matter.
-
Yeah, definitely.
-
They're not going to win, so it probably doesn't matter.
That, but if they do, I think they should. They wouldn't be where they are without MP's contribution (or any of the other current members for that matter), and I see the nomination as more about the band rather than the song, so MP is still a big part of that.
-
If they thank MP, they have to thank Chris Collins too.
-
:lol
-
If they thank MP, they have to thank Chris Collins too.
I know you're kidding, but actually, that's a good point. As much as MP did for them, I think it'd be better if they kind of generalized it and said something like, "Thanks to everyone who's ever been a part of the DT family. You helped mold this band into what it is today."
I do think it would be kind of weird to just thank MP of all people, unless they list him among various names of crew, management, family and friends, etc.
-
Ehhh. MP certainly deserves credit for DT place in progressive Rock history....25 years of influence and making music with them and all. But, the Grammy nominations came AFTER he left.....they may created great songs with him that could have been Grammy nomination worthy.....but never got the nod. He always insisted that's not why they made music....maybe they never submitted ballots when he was in the band? Who knows. Point is...they never were nominated with him in the band.
I don't think just because he was in a band for 25 years and then after he left them high and dry for the reason(s) he did that if, they had won before or if they win now....he deserves in any way to be thanked for winning them. He had no creative input on the songs that they've written without him...of which two were nominated for Grammys.
With that being said, knowing the class that JP has and how genuinely nice JR and MM are....they would probably somehow mention MP and thank him......just because they are that nice and genuine. They certainly don't Owe it to him for any reason IMO
To me....if any thanks are given to him it should be for giving them the inspiration, the drive and fuel to go out and write some incredible music and have the chance to bring a drummer in who's constantly trying to improve and do what it takes to be a member of the team.
-
If they thank MP, they have to thank Chris Collins too.
I know you're kidding, but actually, that's a good point. As much as MP did for them, I think it'd be better if they kind of generalized it and said something like, "Thanks to everyone who's ever been a part of the DT family. You helped mold this band into what it is today."
This.
Maybe not for Chris Collins but definitely Dominici, Moore and Sherinian, since they all had input original DT CD's.
As for the matter, I think they don't have to but they should.
-
You left out some choices...
What are Dream Theater going to do with Mike Portnoy?
Should they let him be thanked at the awards ceremony?
-
Without Portnoy's work, Dream Theater would not be where they are, they would have nowhere near the fame and respect they now have, so he deserves a nod in my opinion
The same could be said for Kevin Moore, since his writing was crucial on I&W, which they wouldn't be nearly as popular without, not to mention him writing the lyrics for the song that gave them their big break, Pull Me Under. Should they thank him, too? ;)
As much as MP did for them, I think it'd be better if they kind of generalized it and said something like, "Thanks to everyone who's ever been a part of the DT family. You helped mold this band into what it is today."
I like this answer. :tup :tup
-
If they thank MP, they have to thank Chris Collins too.
I know you're kidding, but actually, that's a good point. As much as MP did for them, I think it'd be better if they kind of generalized it and said something like, "Thanks to everyone who's ever been a part of the DT family. You helped mold this band into what it is today."
I do think it would be kind of weird to just thank MP of all people, unless they list him among various names of crew, management, family and friends, etc.
Good points all around.
-
If they were nominated for a lifetime achievement award and won, sure. But now they are nominated for a song that MP had no part of. So no.
-
If they were nominated for a lifetime achievement award and won, sure. But now they are nominated for a song that MP had no part of. So no.
:tup
-
If they were nominated for a lifetime achievement award and won, sure. But now they are nominated for a song that MP had no part of. So no.
This. And if they thanked MP, they should also say thanks to everyone who has been part of the band at some point.
-
Option 3.
-
Not if James gets hold of the mic.
-
If they were nominated for a lifetime achievement award and won, sure. But now they are nominated for a song that MP had no part of. So no.
This is how I feel as well. I also thought (previously posted by another user above) about the thanking everyone more-or-less indirectly for where they are today.
-
Not if James gets hold of the mic.
-
It's been 3 years now since MP left. Given that I don't remember any mention of past members in previous award shout-outs, I don't see the necessity to give a shout-out to MP. And yeah, this would be for a specific song that MP had absolutely nothing to do with.
-
If they were nominated for a lifetime achievement award and won, sure. But now they are nominated for a song that MP had no part of. So no.
Totally agree with this.
-
I think they should give a shout out to the DTF.
-
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/55966936/pics/godno.gif)
-
:rollin
-
"Thanks to DTF for the
facts CSI filter and MIDI!"
-
"We would like to thank Mike Portnoy for quitting the band. If he was still in the band, we probably wouldn't have written this song, and wouldn't have been nominated for a Grammy."
:biggrin:
It's for this particular song, which MP had no part of writing (and from his comments he doesn't like the direction the band have gone in since he left). If it was a lifetime achievement award, fair enough.
-
Not at all. ADToE and s/t had their first Grammy nominations because they're way better then the heavility MP-influenced Systematic chaos and b&sl. So really, they owe both nods to MP not being in the band.
-
They are probably going to have about 15 seconds for thank yous so I doubt they are going to have time to thank Chris Collins and Steve Stone...or John Myung.
-
It's not a lifetime achievement award. So no, not in any way.
-
Not at all, this is a song written without MP in the band.
-
If they win, they better do a shout-out to the Mob, for no particular reason.
After listening to "The Dearly Departed", I'd be scared to have any connections to those guys and not give them their due.
-
I voted no. Totally respect MP and the years he put in, but if they win an award for a song and he wasn't a part of the song, they shouldn't give him a shout out.
-
A less facetious answer. This is the subtext of what thanking MP for a song he didn't play on or write is.
"We'd also like to thank the guy who threatened to hold our careers hostage for an extended period of time, who then, when told that was unacceptable, left the band, and spent several months creating passive aggressive drama on various social media outlets. We'd also like to diminish the value of the performances of the drummer who replaced him in the band and actually performed on our two Grammy nominated songs."
The Grammy nod is for The Enemy Inside, not the entire career of Dream Theater.
-
A less facetious answer. This is the subtext of what thanking MP for a song he didn't play on or write is.
"We'd also like to thank the guy who threatened to hold our careers hostage for an extended period of time, who then, when told that was unacceptable, left the band, and spent several months creating passive aggressive drama on various social media outlets. We'd also like to diminish the value of the performances of the drummer who replaced him in the band and actually performed on our two Grammy nominated songs."
Or it could denote nothing more than thanking a founding member of 25 years for contributing to getting them to where they are today. Wtf.
-
Yup.
"Oh, and we'd like to thank Mike and everyone else who helped us endure so much sucess over our careers to get to this point."
Some of you guys are really overthinking it.
-
Yup.
"Oh, and we'd like to thank Mike and everyone else who helped us endure so much sucess over our careers to get to this point."
Some of you guys are really overthinking it.
-
Yup.
"Oh, and we'd like to thank Mike and everyone else who helped us endure so much sucess over our careers to get to this point."
Some of you guys are really overthinking it.
It seems to me like the proponents of thanking MP are the ones overthinking it. They were nominated for a song which he had nothing to do with. No reason to thank him specifically. Seems pretty simple to me.
-
Yup.
"Oh, and we'd like to thank Mike and everyone else who helped us endure so much sucess over our careers to get to this point."
Some of you guys are really overthinking it.
Of course, then it would be debated on whether they mean Mike Portnoy or Mike Mangini. Even if he is right there.
-
No.
Next?
This
-
I'm actually hoping MP pulls a Kanye West.
"I'm gonna let you finish, but I have to say without me you would be nothing! NOTHING!!!"
-
If they thank MP, they have to thank Chris Collins too.
I know you're kidding, but actually, that's a good point. As much as MP did for them, I think it'd be better if they kind of generalized it and said something like, "Thanks to everyone who's ever been a part of the DT family. You helped mold this band into what it is today."
I do think it would be kind of weird to just thank MP of all people, unless they list him among various names of crew, management, family and friends, etc.
agreed.
-
Yup.
"Oh, and we'd like to thank Mike and everyone else who helped us endure so much sucess over our careers to get to this point."
Some of you guys are really overthinking it.
It seems to me like the proponents of thanking MP are the ones overthinking it. They were nominated for a song which he had nothing to do with. No reason to thank him specifically. Seems pretty simple to me.
Well, I don't think it's as simple as a band gets nominated on the basis of one good song. I know that's what the award is for, but you simply have to take the other factors into account. I'm sure the people handing these things out aren't "underthinking" it, so why should we?
-
I'm actually hoping MP pulls a Kanye West.
"I'm gonna let you finish, but I have to say without me you would be nothing! NOTHING!!!"
More like:
"Hey yo JLB, JLB, Ima let you finish but, The Winery Dogs had one of the best songs of all time."
-
:lol..........:umno:
-
I'm actually hoping MP pulls a Kanye West.
"I'm gonna let you finish, but I have to say without me you would be nothing! NOTHING!!!"
More like:
"Hey yo JLB, JLB, Ima let you finish but, The Winery Dogs had one of the best songs of all time."
OF ALL TIME!!!!!!!! :lol
-
Yup.
"Oh, and we'd like to thank Mike and everyone else who helped us endure so much sucess over our careers to get to this point."
Some of you guys are really overthinking it.
It seems to me like the proponents of thanking MP are the ones overthinking it. They were nominated for a song which he had nothing to do with. No reason to thank him specifically. Seems pretty simple to me.
Well, I don't think it's as simple as a band gets nominated on the basis of one good song. I know that's what the award is for, but you simply have to take the other factors into account. I'm sure the people handing these things out aren't "underthinking" it, so why should we?
You're talking about a "token nomination" out of respect for a shunned career? It can happen, but no reason to think that's the case this year.
Maybe the last one, which was, you know, their first ever nomination. That one, I could see more. But this is not that one.
-
Yup.
"Oh, and we'd like to thank Mike and everyone else who helped us endure so much sucess over our careers to get to this point."
Some of you guys are really overthinking it.
It seems to me like the proponents of thanking MP are the ones overthinking it. They were nominated for a song which he had nothing to do with. No reason to thank him specifically. Seems pretty simple to me.
Well, I don't think it's as simple as a band gets nominated on the basis of one good song. I know that's what the award is for, but you simply have to take the other factors into account. I'm sure the people handing these things out aren't "underthinking" it, so why should we?
You're talking about a "token nomination" out of respect for a shunned career? It can happen, but no reason to think that's the case this year.
Maybe the last one, which was, you know, their first ever nomination. That one, I could see more. But this is not that one.
Not a token nomination. I'm just making the assumption a little bit of thought goes into the background, history and past successes of prospective nominees when making the decisions. I don't think it can be just on the merit of the song alone - otherwise, it would be two weird a coincidence that DT's lead single got the nomination on two consecutive albums.
-
I picked the last option, meaning they kick JP out of the band with the message "So long and thanks for all the
salmonfish."
-
I wish Winery Dogs got nominated for something. The tension of having DT and MP in the same building would of been interesting. Camera shots of MP when DT is accepting the award would be great tv. Or the fairy tale situation when DT calls MP to the stage to accept the Grammy with them. Big group hug and all lol!
-
My first reaction was they don't NEED to, since he wasn't really a part of the making of DT12. But after some thought, he's helped DT get where they are for DT12. Without him, DT12 might've not sounded the same. I hope that made any sense whatsoever. :P
-
Well, they won't be doing an acceptance speech at the Grammys even if they win, as they will be across the ocean playing a concert while the Grammys are going on.
However, they usually don't announce that category live anyways (it just scrolls by on the bottom like a news ticker), so even if they put out a "Thank you" video after the fact, I still don't think they should necessarily thank MP.
-
Well, they won't be doing an acceptance speech at the Grammys even if they win, as they will be across the ocean playing a concert while the Grammys are going on.
However, they usually don't announce that category live anyways (it just scrolls by on the bottom like a news ticker), so even if they put out a "Thank you" video after the fact, I still don't think they should necessarily thank MP.
If that's the case, the sweet twist would be for MP to accept the award on their behalf and make some sort of interesting speech regarding it.