How did the mastering come off? As loud all the way as TEI's or did it have room to breathe as well?
Surrender to Reason was a highlight for me.
Vocals were still relatively low in the mix. But I'd say there were a few more high sections than we've heard in recent years. None of the vocal melodies stick out at the moment, but after one listen that doesn't mean much.
You said the mix is raw but do you feel like the instruments were clear and were the drums more audible than on ADToE?
Thanks in advance.
Could you elaborate on FAS being Symphony-X-esque?
And what about The Bigger Picture? :D
Surrender to Reason was a highlight for me.
Can you say more about the overall sound or vibe of this one, since it was one of your favorites?
How was Enigma Machine, especially compared to their others? Was it heavier, faster, cinematic? And how about the bass solo? Did you enjoy it on first listen, or would it have to grow?
You forgot "The Bigger Picture", DOES IT MEAN IT'S FORGETTABLE
Did you get any sense of what the lyrical content is on any of the songs, or was it too hard to pick out the words without having them in front of you?
Thanks again for answering. Very cool of you.
I'm kinda shocked they didn't tell you folks to keep quiet until a certain date. I'd say this will open the flood gates for reviews and I
wouldn't be surprised to see a few pop up at Progarchives very soon.
Congrats and glad you liked the album.
Now we all wait...
Did you tape the session?
/jk
Does the album deserve the name "Dream Theater"?To further expand this question, how much different did you feel it is from previous albums
Does the album deserve the name "Dream Theater"?To further expand this question, how much different did you feel it is from previous albums
Does the album deserve the name "Dream Theater"?
Does the album deserve the name "Dream Theater"?To further expand this question, how much different did you feel it is from previous albums
And what was the overall response by all listeners? Was there a certain kind of mood overall in the room?
Does the album deserve the name "Dream Theater"?To further expand this question, how much different did you feel it is from previous albums
And what was the overall response by all listeners? Was there a certain kind of mood overall in the room?
Thanks for doing this, I bet you are still in some sort of adrenaline rush (hopefully)
It's also the first album in a long time that I don't think includes a song that was long for the sake of it .
And will this album stand the test of time as a true DT classic for decades to come?
:lol
j/k, I just wanted to join in with the overwhelming of the questions.
Did you notice any song structures-rhythmic parts that are new to DT, possible MM influence?
Do you think that the drumming is a step up from ADTOE?
Is JR prominent in the mix, and are there many keyboard solos?
Thanks! :)
It's really awesome that you're answering all these questions. Thanks again!
Since you don't seem to mind terribly being inundated, I'll ask one more. This may be another where you can't remember well enough to say, but I do want to ask in case you do remember.
How much was the orchestra used on this album? To give a frame of reference you could maybe compare it to Octavarium, where it was used only on parts of a few songs, and say whether it was used more or less than that. Again if this is too much detail where you can't recall then obviously don't worry about it, but I figured I'd ask anyway.
So, on behalf of all those bleeding heart audiophiles, did you petition the guys to master their next album 'more thoughtfully'? :lol
Did they serve chocolate cake to enjoy the record?
Did you notice any song structures-rhythmic parts that are new to DT, possible MM influence?
Do you think that the drumming is a step up from ADTOE?
Yes (a couple of bits where MM combines brilliantly with JM).
Yes.
Did you get to hear the easter egg? how long is the silence before?
Any atmospheric solo like in Razor's Edge? How is the solo in The Illumination Theory?
Thanks for the comments dude.
I just really wish people would stop equating poor master with raw. The are =/=.
You can have an album with a raw sound that still sounds great, but usually today it's just not the case.
Garage Inc by Metallica = Raw Sound with great production.
Death Magnetic = Raw sound with horrible production.
What did you think of JLB's vocal melodies? Are they good? Are they catchy, or memorable?
What did you think of JLB's vocal melodies? Are they good? Are they catchy, or memorable?
Are there any moments were JLB goes up in the register?
Did you get to hear the easter egg? how long is the silence before?
Yep. Piano-driven section, with the volume pedal guitar stuff that's in TCOT.
Silence before is probably about 30 seconds, but difficult to judge exactly.
Tough question, but how you'd rank "The Enemy Inside" on the album? Bottom-tier? Is there any song that you'd classify inferior to TEI?
Tough question, but how you'd rank "The Enemy Inside" on the album? Bottom-tier? Is there any song that you'd classify inferior to TEI?
Well I'll rule out FAS in the rankings because of its length.
Preliminary rankings (very early to say really, and of course subject to change):
1. Illumination Theory
2. Surrender to Reason
3. Along for the Ride
4. The Looking Glass
5. Enigma Machine
6. The Bigger Picture
7. The Enemy Inside
8. Behind the Veil
Obviously bear in mind how much more familiar I am with TEI. These rankings mean pretty much nothing right now.
So is the "easter egg" something that flows naturally from the song, or is it completely different and unrelated?
Thanks for the answers and recap! You've got me very excited.
I only have one question, about Illumination Theory. Given that it's long, details are too much to ask for, I get that. But in general, given the overall mood of the piece, how would you compare it to older DT epics? Does it give off more similar vibes to ACOS, 8varium, or SDOIT? Glad that it didn't feel as long as it is, that's always a good sign.
Really, thanks a lot.
Tough question, but how you'd rank "The Enemy Inside" on the album? Bottom-tier? Is there any song that you'd classify inferior to TEI?
Well I'll rule out FAS in the rankings because of its length.
Preliminary rankings (very early to say really, and of course subject to change):
1. Illumination Theory
2. Surrender to Reason
3. Along for the Ride
4. The Looking Glass
5. Enigma Machine
6. The Bigger Picture
7. The Enemy Inside
8. Behind the Veil
Obviously bear in mind how much more familiar I am with TEI. These rankings mean pretty much nothing right now.
Well I guess Behind the Veil didn't click very much with you... anything about that?
Thanks a lot for the info. Just 2 real quick questions from me: what would be the most comparable album in terms of JLB's vocals? And can you hear JM at all (besides his solo)?
Thanks again!
thanks for the answers, you are really cool :tup
Hi everyone, is my first post, so , the question... do you remember the lyrics / theme of Behind the veil? what connection would you make with the recent picture (the kid , the books and the tv) ?
thanks for the answers, you are really cool :tup
thanks for the answers, you are really cool :tup
No he's not! If anything, I'm really cool because I had grounded him, but I let him go anyway. >:( It's all about ME, not HIM!
:biggrin:
How much do you like Enigma Machine relative to DT's other instrumentals?
Hi everyone, is my first post, so , the question... do you remember the lyrics / theme of Behind the veil? what connection would you make with the recent picture (the kid , the books and the tv) ?
thanks for the answers, you are really cool :tup
Whatever people end up thinking about the quality of this album, I don't think anybody will be able to say they've played it safe.
In other news, JP seems to have slimmed down somewhat.
What was it like? Were you all just sitting there, listening intently? Or were you chatting it up with the band members while the music was playing?
How much is JLB present in Illumination Theory (as in time, not how good he's in it), because I remember someone saying that song was mostly instrumental. Was that an exaggerated statement?
It's also the first album in a long time that I don't think includes a song that was long for the sake of it (Outcry, ANTR, TMoLS, Sacrificed Sons).It's about time they fix that problem. Thanks for the info, can't wait for this! :metal
Are there stand out/must-hear guitar solos JP had? which song if so?
I want to ask you about the heaviness vibe of the album. Is that full-of-wankery heaviness like in, for example, This Dying Soul? Are there many solos with uncountless notes per second? In the end, is that heaviness good or bad/wasteful (for example, some sections in BCASL or SC?
Also, are there lots of proggy/odd/fresh sections?
During the Q&A, was it asked/mentioned who wrote what lyrics?
Thanks for all the answers!
Do you agree with the writer from the first listening party that this album has a mainstream tint to it?
Afraid not, there was only time for 3 or 4 questions from fans. A guy from Prog Rock magazine asked a few first.
I couldnt find it if someone already asked this but which ones are the ballads and are they power ballad in type or are they totally different slower songs? Can you remember anything about them?
What other questions were asked that you can remember?
I want to ask you if there were many sections that you 've been left with the feeling that you would like to listen again repeatedly ,to fully enjoy them.
Or sections so interesting at first listen that you found very intriguing.And,is the guitar more prominent than the other instruments?Thanks in advance mate!
Re: the approx 2-minute 'solo' orchestral part you mentioned in Illumination Theory - is it a kind of slow, moody section, like in The Count of Tuscany (that wasn't an orchestra, I know, but you get the part I mean), or was it lively and energetic, like Tchaikovsky on speed?
Some interesting questions here. You guys should keep a lot of these questions in mind for future use. In case, you know, you guys get a chance to ask the members of DT some questions some day. Hypothetically.
Seriously though, most of these questions are about the music itself. I don't think there'd be a point of asking DT, "How would you rate Illumination Theory among the rest of your epics?" or "Hey, JP, did you write any stand out, must hear guitar solos?"
HEY JP - ARE YOU A LOT LESS FATTER THAN YOU USED TO BE ? CHEERS.
Right, bedtime. I'm shattered, but what an evening! I look forward to answering a new raft of questions in the morning.
Right, bedtime. I'm shattered, but what an evening! I look forward to answering a new raft of questions in the morning.
Shattered Fortress
Yes. that was what I was implying :clap:
There are no horses on dt12.
Some interesting questions here. You guys should keep a lot of these questions in mind for future use. In case, you know, you guys get a chance to ask the members of DT some questions some day. Hypothetically.
There are no horses on dt12.
I KNEW IT! FINE, I'M NOT BUYING IT THEN! :rant:
The only question I really have is, "how much better would the recording have been if MP :hefdaddy was doing the drums and writing"? I assume, "much"?
Sorry, couldn't help myself :loser: :facepalm:
There are no horses on dt12.
I KNEW IT! FINE, I'M NOT BUYING IT THEN! :rant:
There could be Donkeys.
Some interesting questions here. You guys should keep a lot of these questions in mind for future use. In case, you know, you guys get a chance to ask the members of DT some questions some day. Hypothetically.
There could be Donkeys.
IT'S NOT THE SAME!!
There could be Donkeys.
IT'S NOT THE SAME!!
Wait, no! It'll be even better! Better than horses, even.... Zebras!
Nah, Zebras are way cooler. Zebras are like Progressive Horses.
Yea. Horses are like Owner Of A Lonely Heart and Zebras are like Close To The Edge.
Some interesting questions here. You guys should keep a lot of these questions in mind for future use. In case, you know, you guys get a chance to ask the members of DT some questions some day. Hypothetically.Hypothetically, of course.
Nah, I'd say Drama. :biggrin:Yea. Horses are like Owner Of A Lonely Heart and Zebras are like Close To The Edge.
I take it that means Unicorns are like Relayer? :tup
Some interesting questions here. You guys should keep a lot of these questions in mind for future use. In case, you know, you guys get a chance to ask the members of DT some questions some day. Hypothetically.Hypothetically, of course.
Every time I see this guy :rant: I just have to stop, watch and laugh for awhile :rant::rant::rant::rant: :lolThere are no horses on dt12.
I KNEW IT! FINE, I'M NOT BUYING IT THEN! :rant:
There could be Donkeys.
IT'S NOT THE SAME!!
Wait, no! It'll be even better! Better than horses, even.... Zebras!
There could be these
(https://i598.photobucket.com/albums/tt64/gsxr1000john/how-to-draw-my-little-pony_1_000000000334_5_zpseedce68b.jpg~original) (https://s598.photobucket.com/user/gsxr1000john/media/how-to-draw-my-little-pony_1_000000000334_5_zpseedce68b.jpg.html)
You couldn't be more wrong... Everyone knows..
Donkeys < Zebras < Horses < Unicorns
I have a few questions. As many may or may not know, I'm the one who created/transcribed that MIDI file. I have a list of a few questions regarding the accuracy of it.
-Based on the notes that I plotted in my midi, how accurate is my transcription? (Using a percentage)
-Does the MIDI contain a lot of missing notes compared to the real song?
-Approximately at what point during the song does the part from my midi begin at?
-What kind of instrument patch is used during the part of my MIDI? (Orchestral strings? Piano?)
-Is the actual speed of that part faster, the same, or slower than the speed at which I chose for the MIDI?
-As you know, that recent audio/video snippet of MM playing a part from FAS in Ep. 4 of DT's studio mini-series and my MIDI file are from the same song. Does that snippet come in before or after the MIDI I created?
-Lastly, did anyone in the listening party mention anything about the MIDI I transcribed? :biggrin:
Also, is the weird vocal scatting heard in the 3rd episode of DT's "In the Studio" mini-series present anywhere on the actual album? If so, then which song does it occur in?
Wait, no! It'll be even better! Better than horses, even.... Zebras!There could be Donkeys.
IT'S NOT THE SAME!!
There could be these
(https://i598.photobucket.com/albums/tt64/gsxr1000john/how-to-draw-my-little-pony_1_000000000334_5_zpseedce68b.jpg~original) (https://s598.photobucket.com/user/gsxr1000john/media/how-to-draw-my-little-pony_1_000000000334_5_zpseedce68b.jpg.html)
You couldn't be more wrong... Everyone knows..
Donkeys < Zebras < Horses < Unicorns
Did you notice any song structures-rhythmic parts that are new to DT, possible MM influence?
Do you think that the drumming is a step up from ADTOE?
Yes (a couple of bits where MM combines brilliantly with JM).
Yes.
Was that horrendous scat singing in there?!
There are plenty of wacky keyboard moments, though not on the piano as far as I can remember.Were there any piano parts or was it all synth?
There are plenty of wacky keyboard moments, though not on the piano as far as I can remember.Were there any piano parts or was it all synth?
Also, is the weird vocal scatting heard in the 3rd episode of DT's "In the Studio" mini-series present anywhere on the actual album? If so, then which song does it occur in?
Also, is the weird vocal scatting heard in the 3rd episode of DT's "In the Studio" mini-series present anywhere on the actual album? If so, then which song does it occur in?
Since Eren has answered the rest, let me hint at this. Does the scat itself appear? Not really, but there is something "similar". When you hear it you'll immediately understand what the video was trying to show...
Since Eren has answered the rest, let me hint at this. Does the scat itself appear? Not really, but there is something "similar". When you hear it you'll immediately understand what the video was trying to show...
There are plenty of wacky keyboard moments, though not on the piano as far as I can remember.Were there any piano parts or was it all synth?
Since he said the crazy moments weren't on the piano, that leads me to believe that there were piano parts, just not crazy ones.
From a guitarists POV I'd like to know how many standard 6/7 string songs there were as opposed to alternate tunings.
I guess that would be difficult to answer really.
So, did many of the songs seem to have that down tuned effect?
Thank you for taking your time and posting so quickly! :tup
Not sure if this was asked before, but how is the transition from FAS to TEI?
Ah, here's a question!
Could you distinguish the seaboard on the songs? (assuming you know how it sounds like :D)
I think this has not been asked yet, how are Jordan sounds and presence in the CD? Does he use cool new sounds and makes nice fresh sections? Or is he limited to wankery solos and chording stuff? Thank you again! :laugh:
Also, is there any senseless solo, AROP style?
Any Continuum or Morphwiz?
Do you remember any improvisational passages in the vein of SFAM?
Also,were there any sections that left you with your jaws dropped ,at first listen?And did the album ,as a whole,give you the impression of a very technical one?
From a guitarists POV I'd like to know how many standard 6/7 string songs there were as opposed to alternate tunings.
I guess that would be difficult to answer really.
So, did many of the songs seem to have that down tuned effect?
As I Am, Honor Thy Father, In The Name Of God, A Nightmare To Remember are in C tuning.
Endless Sacrifice, I Walk Beside You, Never Enough, Forsaken, A Rite Of Passage and Lost Not Forgotten are in D tuning.
Stream Of Consciousness and The Root Of All Evil are in Eb tuning.
Home is in Drop D.
These Walls is in A tuning (baritone).
Panic Attack and (I believe) Wither are in Bb tuning (baritone).
Maybe I forgot some, but even if not, that's a lot of songs anyway.
Space dye vest is in drop dI thought Blind Faith was played an octave down from the standard EADGBE tuning? I didn't know SDV is in drop D, but then again the quadruple rhythm guitar tracks sound so heavy throughout the album that it's hard to figure it out.
Blind faith is played with a silhouette bass A tuned
Were there any questions or info on the tour? Orchestra? Advanced indications on the general theme of the set list (more new, classics, songs not performed before or in a while)?
Thanks for sharing!
Could you tell the various sections of FAS and IT?
By the way, I think I noticed the 'snarling pig' make an appearance at one point.
I keep reading about this snarling pig and keep meaning to listen out for it...
Where is the best place to hear it ( on any song ) ?
I keep reading about this snarling pig and keep meaning to listen out for it...
Where is the best place to hear it ( on any song ) ?
Did you make notes during the listening process or are you just taking this from your memory? Were you allowed at all to make any kind of notes?
After quick browsing , I didn't see this question answered before; What DT album did it resemble the most? :P
By the way, I think I noticed the 'snarling pig' make an appearance at one point.
As the snarling pig is in The Enemy Inside, that's no surprise. :P
But let me reiterate, despite having familiar elements, this does not sound like any other DT album. It's new ground for the band.That's great news! Thanks a lot for all the cool information man :tup
Did the album remind you of chocolate cake?
I did not see this question. How would you rate MM performance in this album as compared to ADTOE?
Don't know if you'll be able to answer that one...but let's try this: What are the most memorable individual moments (or spots, if you wish) of JR, JLB, MM, JP and JM? Can you remember in which song do you heard anything mindblowing from each one of them?
Were there any questions or info on the tour? Orchestra? Advanced indications on the general theme of the set list (more new, classics, songs not performed before or in a while)?JLB mentioned in a recent interview that they haven't really decided on that sort of thing yet. I think he said they'd likely have some meetings in the fall to discuss what sort of show they want to put on.
Thanks for sharing!
Thanks for answering, that is so great!
Let me ask you just one more thing...is there any baritone from JP?
Are there songs that are difficult to follow on the first listen? You know, songs that you cannot reproduce in your head unless you hear them quite a few times.
Also, are JLB's vocals higher or lower (register-wise, not in the mix) than ADTOE?
FAS is very symphonic, very heavy. Reminds me a lot of Oculus Ex Inferni. It also includes the drum section from the latest In the Studio clip.
But let me reiterate, despite having familiar elements, this does not sound like any other DT album. It's new ground for the band.
I love Symphony X but I really dislike Oculus. Not sure what to think :-\
I love Symphony X but I really dislike Oculus. Not sure what to think :-\
I love Symphony X but I really dislike Oculus. Not sure what to think :-\
Dude, that sentance is an oxymoron.
Oh, there's choral voices...
I love Symphony X but I really dislike Oculus. Not sure what to think :-\
Dude, that sentance is an oxymoron.
You mean, because Symphony X fans should never use the word "think" to describe something they are capable of doing?
I love Symphony X but I really dislike Oculus. Not sure what to think :-\
Dude, that sentance is an oxymoron.
You mean, because Symphony X fans should never use the word "think" to describe something they are capable of doing?
I was just kidding. To me OEI is like the definition of modern SX. I didn't mean to imply that their opinion wasn't valid. I probably should have used an emoticon after to indicate that it was said in jest. Apologies.
Mmmmm. Pizza.
Just got home from attending, have not had time to read through the whole thread, but think me and my wife were sat next to Cyber.
My thoughts were that the 5.1 mix might not be the best to listen to as the vocals tend to get lost in the mix, MM drums are well up front.
On this album MM & JMX work the best as a rhythm section than on any previous album I can think of.
JMX bass sound is far dirtier than previously. Even though there are some INSANE drum parts at times MM leaves space for other in the band where before MP might have filled the space with a fill run or something.
The Rush sounds are still there, the beginning of 1 track made me think of a Farewell to Kings era Rush.
The underlying felling is that this is METAL, almost reminiscent of Train of Thought.
Sorry if this is a fragmented review but my 2 year old is crawling all over me.
On this album MM & JMX work the best as a rhythm section than on any previous album I can think of.
The Rush sounds are still there, the beginning of 1 track made me think of a Farewell to Kings era Rush.
JMX bass sound is far dirtier than previously.
Nothing will bury a bass like over distortion.
Slight rumble but with a nice fat upper - mid range will make it stand out.
mmm.. Myung decided to get down and dirty...
Just got home from attending, have not had time to read through the whole thread, but think me and my wife were sat next to Cyber.
My thoughts were that the 5.1 mix might not be the best to listen to as the vocals tend to get lost in the mix, MM drums are well up front.
On this album MM & JMX work the best as a rhythm section than on any previous album I can think of.
JMX bass sound is far dirtier than previously. Even though there are some INSANE drum parts at times MM leaves space for other in the band where before MP might have filled the space with a fill run or something.
The Rush sounds are still there, the beginning of 1 track made me think of a Farewell to Kings era Rush.
The underlying felling is that this is METAL, almost reminiscent of Train of Thought.
Sorry if this is a fragmented review but my 2 year old is crawling all over me.
Were you the guys who spilled the beer? :lol
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BMzCUi75jIY (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BMzCUi75jIY)
If it sounds like this it will be purr-fect :3
JMX bass sound is far dirtier than previously. Even though there are some INSANE drum parts at times MM leaves space for other in the band where before MP might have filled the space with a fill run
Just got home from attending, have not had time to read through the whole thread, but think me and my wife were sat next to Cyber.
My thoughts were that the 5.1 mix might not be the best to listen to as the vocals tend to get lost in the mix, MM drums are well up front.
On this album MM & JMX work the best as a rhythm section than on any previous album I can think of.
JMX bass sound is far dirtier than previously. Even though there are some INSANE drum parts at times MM leaves space for other in the band where before MP might have filled the space with a fill run or something.
The Rush sounds are still there, the beginning of 1 track made me think of a Farewell to Kings era Rush.
The underlying felling is that this is METAL, almost reminiscent of Train of Thought.
Sorry if this is a fragmented review but my 2 year old is crawling all over me.
Were you the guys who spilled the beer? :lol
Yep, that was the wife. I don't drink so didn't enjoy the evening as much as her.
Just got home from attending, have not had time to read through the whole thread, but think me and my wife were sat next to Cyber.
My thoughts were that the 5.1 mix might not be the best to listen to as the vocals tend to get lost in the mix, MM drums are well up front.
On this album MM & JMX work the best as a rhythm section than on any previous album I can think of.
JMX bass sound is far dirtier than previously. Even though there are some INSANE drum parts at times MM leaves space for other in the band where before MP might have filled the space with a fill run or something.
The Rush sounds are still there, the beginning of 1 track made me think of a Farewell to Kings era Rush.
The underlying felling is that this is METAL, almost reminiscent of Train of Thought.
Sorry if this is a fragmented review but my 2 year old is crawling all over me.
Were you the guys who spilled the beer? :lol
Yep, that was the wife. I don't drink so didn't enjoy the evening as much as her.
Have u passed the point when your enjoyment is dependant on the amount of consumed alcohol :p
I mostly listen to classical when I'm drunk ;DKeep a drink to hand for a couple of sections on "Dream Theater" then.
I love Symphony X but I really dislike Oculus. Not sure what to think :-\
Dude, that sentance is an oxymoron.
You mean, because Symphony X fans should never use the word "think" to describe something they are capable of doing?
Cyberdrummer...are there any songs that hit you as instant classics first listen? For example....the first time I heard Breaking All Illusions....it just had this vibe of "wow they're probably gonna play this song at every show for the rest of their career" to me. Even on the first listen.
Okay, didn't know that. I thought Home was the only DT song in Drop D.Misunderstood.
Cyberdrummer...are there any songs that hit you as instant classics first listen? For example....the first time I heard Breaking All Illusions....it just had this vibe of "wow they're probably gonna play this song at every show for the rest of their career" to me. Even on the first listen.Sorry for answering in place of Cyberdrummer, but the track that stuck with me was The Looking Glass.
Cyberdrummer...are there any songs that hit you as instant classics first listen? For example....the first time I heard Breaking All Illusions....it just had this vibe of "wow they're probably gonna play this song at every show for the rest of their career" to me. Even on the first listen.
is there enough moments of piano keyboards in the album??
Are the heavier songs all toward the beginning or are they in the middle and end also? What other album could you compare the heaviness too? I have heard TEI but I mean the other heavy parts.
Also, how long approximately is FAS?
Also, how long approximately is FAS?
Two questions:
If you had to pick one standout musician from the album, who would it be and why?
Also
Do you think this album will divide the fanbase based upon prior reactions to albums, or do you think this will be a more generally favorably-received release?
Thanks :)
Two questions:
If you had to pick one standout musician from the album, who would it be and why?
Also
Do you think this album will divide the fanbase based upon prior reactions to albums, or do you think this will be a more generally favorably-received release?
Thanks :)
I'd say MM. There was a bit of pressure on him to put his stamp on DT's music, and he did that. He's a machine.
I think it will be more divisive than ADTOE, and that's because it isn't as safe.
I think it will be more divisive than ADTOE, and that's because it isn't as safe.Would you say it's their riskiest album? Why?
TOT meets 8VM? Hell yes.
Cyberdrummer...are there any songs that hit you as instant classics first listen? For example....the first time I heard Breaking All Illusions....it just had this vibe of "wow they're probably gonna play this song at every show for the rest of their career" to me. Even on the first listen.Sorry for answering in place of Cyberdrummer, but the track that stuck with me was The Looking Glass.
Certainly had the chorus hook line.
TOT meets 8VM? Hell yes.
Well not really. This album is still a different beast altogether.
TOT meets 8VM? Hell yes.
Well not really. This album is still a different beast altogether.
Would you say it's heavy like Train Of Thought but varied like Octavarium ?
I like when they do varied. Octavarium is my favourite album by far.
Can you give an approximate length to each track (just from what you remember of course)?
Would you say that the album as a whole is as long as most of their other albums?
Thanks!
I have NEVER heard of a near 8 minute song fitting on a 7" vinyl. I thought 7 mins was the max.
This reminds me a lot of Octavarium's track lengths. Lots of "shorter" songs and one epic. Nice stuff.
Cyber, can you describe JM's bass solo?
cyberdrummer, I've got a question:
How high would you rank TBP among other DT ballads?
Cyber, can you describe JM's bass solo?
What song has the heaviest guitar riff on the album? Are there better riffs than on TEI? I found the riffs in that song a little unsatisfying.
Whenever people refer to tbp as a ballad I have to think... It's the heaviest ballad I've ever heard ;) the easiest comparioson is probably the ministry of list souls without the instrumental parts...
Beneath the surface 2 with double bass drums
Beneath the surface 2 with double bass drums
I don't know why but I immediately thought about this:
Until one day I stop caring
ROOOAAAAOAOAORRRRRRRR!!!!!!!
:lol
Beneath the surface 2 with double bass drums
I don't know why but I immediately thought about this:
Until one day I stop caring
ROOOAAAAOAOAORRRRRRRR!!!!!!!
:lol
"Nothing you can do to change me
But accept me as I am
As I aaaaaammmmm
YEAH!"
How about BTV? I'm disappointed that didn't make as big of an impression on people ? :-\
I'm sorry if I missed the thread where this was mentioned but, how did this come about?
This discussion starts with 'so I got back' and I was thinking, from where? What happened?=)
Apologies if I missed that part, I looked. And MANY thanks for posting and putting up with all our questions! So appreciated, the excitement is already so great.
I'm sorry if I missed the thread where this was mentioned but, how did this come about?
This discussion starts with 'so I got back' and I was thinking, from where? What happened?=)
Apologies if I missed that part, I looked. And MANY thanks for posting and putting up with all our questions! So appreciated, the excitement is already so great.
Cyberdrummer and a couple of others went to a listening party in London for the new DT album. JP, JLB and JR was there too.
How about BTV? I'm disappointed that didn't make as big of an impression on peopleIt's because it's a pretty straight rocker, kinda like black album era Metallica in the riff department with some anthemy vocals. It's a song that could just as well have existed on sc.
:-\
Cyberdrummer.... Any segues in the album?
How about BTV? I'm disappointed that didn't make as big of an impression on peopleIt's because it's a pretty straight rocker, kinda like black album era Metallica in the riff department with some anthemy vocals. It's a song that could just as well have existed on sc.
:-\
"Nothing you can do to change meHa. I have sung that from the very first time I heard the song :lol
But accept me as I am
As I aaaaaammmmm
YEAH!"
Thank you Cyberdrummer :tup
One question: that french named movement in IT, does it contain french lyrics (probaby not but I'm just curious)?
Thank you Cyberdrummer :tup
One question: that french named movement in IT, does it contain french lyrics (probaby not but I'm just curious)?
No, it's instrumental.
He says there aren't.
How exactly does a Hugh Grant comedy sound?
Noxon confirmed this too. I'm glad. Not really a fan of songs segwaying into each other. I mean, it works for SFAM which pretty much works best when listened to as a whole, but for Octavarium, the segways get kind of annoying, like the end of Panic Attack or the Al Qaeda chatter at the beginning of Sacrificed Sons. Thank God for the Gretest Hit version.
I agree. I actually made edited versions of These Walls, Panic Attack and Never Enough in Audacity so that I had versions of those songs that stand alone (taking off the heartbeat and clock from These Walls, the Never Enough-style synth solo from Panic Attack and adding it to Never Enough, and the chanting from Never Enough).
Not really a fan of songs segwaying into each other.So you don't think it's cool when songs use these to transition into each other:
I have NEVER heard of a near 8 minute song fitting on a 7" vinyl. I thought 7 mins was the max.
Any potentially cringe-worthy stuff from LaBrie? Like overstraining, overemphasizing syllables, or poor pronunciation.
"Beneath the Surfesssssss..."
"Beneath the Surfesssssss..."
"Sorry aboat the short sat."
Did that scat singing MM did in the studio vid was a drum part to any song? In the vid I just thought he mumbled out a drum part...
Any potentially cringe-worthy stuff from LaBrie? Like overstraining, overemphasizing syllables, or poor pronunciation.
Any potentially cringe-worthy stuff from LaBrie? Like overstraining, overemphasizing syllables, or poor pronunciation.
To LaBrie's credit, I think he has gotten a lot better with it. Don't know if it's the coaching with Vendera but his latest solo album, you can CLEARLY hear what he sings.
Hey cyberdrummer, how would you compare some of the best songs on Dream Theater to Breaking all Illusions? That is, how would Breaking all Illusions rank if it were on the new album (best on the album, somewhere in the middle?)
Sure.... I guess if he's kind enough he can answer both questions ;)
I have to say that Breaking All Illusions still hasn't clicked for me.
It's a good song, yes but I don't see it as "outstanding" as others do.
I have to say that Breaking All Illusions still hasn't clicked for me.
It's a good song, yes but I don't see it as "outstanding" as others do.
I felt the same way about ADTOE after I listened thru is once or twice but after listening thru it a few more times I am really beginning to like it quite a bit.I have to say that Breaking All Illusions still hasn't clicked for me.
It's a good song, yes but I don't see it as "outstanding" as others do.
IMO Breaking All Illusions is the best track from ADTOE , but that doesn't really say much cos' ADTOE is propably my least favourite DT album :P
But yeah, BAI has some good melodies!
I think I like IT better than 8v (the song)...
BAI is their best song since SDOIT for me.
I think I like IT better than 8v (the song)...
BAI is their best song since SDOIT for me.
I agree!
I apologize if this has been addressed already.
JP has mentioned recently that the new wave of progressive metal has influenced him to a degree. So are there any parts in the record where you see clear references to Periphery, BTBAM or Animals as Leaders?
I apologize if this has been addressed already.
JP has mentioned recently that the new wave of progressive metal has influenced him to a degree. So are there any parts in the record where you see clear references to Periphery, BTBAM or Animals as Leaders?
For me, Tesseract are one of those bands that sound really good, but aren't that remarkable, sounds a bit harsh, but I say that as a big fan of their first album, their second album just didn't really do anything for me.
Do you happen to recall whether or not there were any spoken word samples used on this album?
Do you happen to recall whether or not there were any spoken word samples used on this album?
Pretty certain there weren't.
I saw earlier in the thread (at least I think) that you mentioned the album was heavy, like TOT heavy or something else entirely?In case you missed it Cyber.
The style of songs is varied. The song structures don't vary a great deal. I'd say it's as heavy as ToT, but not so much in terms of the riffage. It's a different kind of heaviness, brought about by its unrelenting nature, and in part by the loudness of the mix itself.
Tough question, but how you'd rank "The Enemy Inside" on the album? Bottom-tier? Is there any song that you'd classify inferior to TEI?
Well I'll rule out FAS in the rankings because of its length.
Preliminary rankings (very early to say really, and of course subject to change):
1. Illumination Theory
2. Surrender to Reason
3. Along for the Ride
4. The Looking Glass
5. Enigma Machine
6. The Bigger Picture
7. The Enemy Inside
8. Behind the Veil
Obviously bear in mind how much more familiar I am with TEI. These rankings mean pretty much nothing right now.
Tough question, but how you'd rank "The Enemy Inside" on the album? Bottom-tier? Is there any song that you'd classify inferior to TEI?
Well I'll rule out FAS in the rankings because of its length.
Preliminary rankings (very early to say really, and of course subject to change):
1. Illumination Theory
2. Surrender to Reason
3. Along for the Ride
4. The Looking Glass
5. Enigma Machine
6. The Bigger Picture
7. The Enemy Inside
8. Behind the Veil
Obviously bear in mind how much more familiar I am with TEI. These rankings mean pretty much nothing right now.
:facepalm:
:facepalm:
With all due respect, Bosk, FourthHorseman said "if TEI is a bottom 2 song on DT12, we will have a top 5 album." He didn't say "TEI is a bottom 2 song, so DT12 is a top 5 album." I think his comment is perfectly reasonable and shouldn't warrant a :facepalm: .
Look, I understand that cyberdrummer's rankings are based on one listen and that he's had more of a chance to hear TEI. Yes, this may skew his rankings (in what direction, I don't even know?? :lol ) , but isn't the fact that he put TEI bottom 2, and not, say, top 2, worthy of a comment? I think it is! I had the same hopefully reaction as Horseman when I saw TEI was bottom 2, and I'm certain that you did too.
Leon
:facepalm:
With all due respect, Bosk, FourthHorseman said "if TEI is a bottom 2 song on DT12, we will have a top 5 album." He didn't say "TEI is a bottom 2 song, so DT12 is a top 5 album." I think his comment is perfectly reasonable and shouldn't warrant a :facepalm: .
Look, I understand that cyberdrummer's rankings are based on one listen and that he's had more of a chance to hear TEI. Yes, this may skew his rankings (in what direction, I don't even know?? :lol ) , but isn't the fact that he put TEI bottom 2, and not, say, top 2, worthy of a comment? I think it is! I had the same hopefully reaction as Horseman when I saw TEI was bottom 2, and I'm certain that you did too.
Leon
:facepalm:
:biggrin:
Hopefully I'll get to listen to Illumination Theory today. :metalReally? That's great!! I hope you'll share your thoughts with us! =)
Hopefully I'll get to listen to Illumination Theory today. :metal
I was chosen by Sweden Rock Magazine to attend a listening party in Stockholm this afternoon but it seems we'll not be hearing the entire record, just some selected songs. I could be wrong though.
I was chosen by Sweden Rock Magazine to attend a listening party in Stockholm this afternoon but it seems we'll not be hearing the entire record, just some selected songs. I could be wrong though.
It's exactly like Six Degrees (the suite) intro.
Great! And shame they didn't choose Zydar too! No Zydar? No party! :D
I'll do my best to take some mental notes but I can't promise that they'll be very detailed. Knowing myself and how insanely hyped I am I'll probably be way too excited when the music starts playing to be able to really focus on the details. :angel:
(https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/Smileys/default/tard.gif)
Haha, sorry.
I haven't eaten anything all day so I really need to go eat something before I start sorting through my memories. What I can tell you Swedish fans though is this: there will be a concert in Stockholm! :metal
SO ENERGY
SO HUNGRY
He'll have forgotten everything by the time he comes to type it out! :lol
Haha, sorry.:omg: :omg: :omg:
I haven't eaten anything all day so I really need to go eat something before I start sorting through my memories. What I can tell you Swedish fans though is this: there will be a concert in Stockholm! :metal
Can this stop before it becomes a 2+ page long thing? :mehlin
9. Illumination Theory
I seem to also remember... wind chimes
Nothing worse than a new album that leaves you cold. Just that feeling of : :| why aren't I enjoying this ?
Thank you so much for that, mate! That was really lovely. :)
Now fly, you fool! Questions are coming. :laugh:
Did anyone who has heard the album smile whilst listening to it / get shivers / goosebumps / do a bit of a head bob in certain sections?
To me - an album fails if it doesn't make you react in any way.
Nothing worse than a new album that leaves you cold. Just that feeling of : :| why aren't I enjoying this ?
Great post!Amen.
I don't know if I'm looking too much forward into the new CD, but that mixture of I&W, Awake and modern DT can become an amazing music disc.
Well, I'm really hyped up.
You made some comparisons with songs I really enjoy, that makes me way more anxious to hear it myself!
But I wanna know...how about JM in this new record? What can you tell about his contribution and performance?
Meatrose, thanks for sharing your thoughts of the new album with us!
First impression, can you tell me if IT feels (in your opinion) cohesive or forced?
What song does it seem like it has the Myung lyrics?
DT12 makes me think of some kind of cross-breed between Images And Words and Awake with a "modern DT twist"... or something like that.
If I had to try to describe my first impressions of the album by referring to other DT albums I would have to say that the songwriting on DT12 makes me think of some kind of cross-breed between Images And Words and Awake with a "modern DT twist"...
Did anyone who has heard the album smile whilst listening to it / get shivers / goosebumps / do a bit of a head bob in certain sections?
To me - an album fails if it doesn't make you react in any way.
Nothing worse than a new album that leaves you cold. Just that feeling of : :| why aren't I enjoying this ?
If I had to try to describe my first impressions of the album by referring to other DT albums I would have to say that the songwriting on DT12 makes me think of some kind of cross-breed between Images And Words and Awake with a "modern DT twist"...
(https://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i238/hefdaddy42/funny/shocked_zps22e17bf3.jpg)
If I had to try to describe my first impressions of the album by referring to other DT albums I would have to say that the songwriting on DT12 makes me think of some kind of cross-breed between Images And Words and Awake with a "modern DT twist"...
If I had to try to describe my first impressions of the album by referring to other DT albums I would have to say that the songwriting on DT12 makes me think of some kind of cross-breed between Images And Words and Awake with a "modern DT twist"...
If I had to try to describe my first impressions of the album by referring to other DT albums I would have to say that the songwriting on DT12 makes me think of some kind of cross-breed between Images And Words and Awake with a "modern DT twist"...
(https://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i238/hefdaddy42/funny/shocked_zps22e17bf3.jpg)
(https://www.reactiongifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/mind_blown.gif)
Haha! I feel that I probably need to address this statement of mine. My intention was not to blow people's expectations out of proportion. Dream Theater does not sound like any of those albums but if I had to reference their previous releases it would be those two and the reason for that would be the type of songwriting that seems to have given birth to the songs. I was not talking about quality or how well it's likely to rank. That being said, I'm also not insinuating that it's not potentially "up there", just that it's way, way too soon for me to even be thinking about stuff like that.
Let's see, after a good night's sleep I'm going to add a couple of things. Note that these are not real "opinions", I'm just trying to predict what I might end up thinking in the future after having listened to the album for a while.
Wild prediction #1: The album does not have a "bad song". I'll probably think that the weakest track on DT is stronger than the weakest tracks on most of their other albums.
Wild prediction #2: While being a consistently good album none of the "highlights" or "defining moments" will quite measure up to those of some of their previous releases. (Which would make it similar to ADTOE in that regard, in my opinion I should add)
Wild prediction #3: I'll probably think that The Enemy Inside is one of the weakest tracks on DT, if not the weakest.
Wild prediction #4: None of the songs will feel as if it was extended to be longer than it needed to be for the sake of it being longer.
Wild prediction #5: None, or at least very few of the fast/technical sections will feel as if it's fast and/or technical just for the sake of it.
Wild prediction #6: This will be considered to be the most melodically driven album of Dream Theater's "Roadrunner era".
Wild prediction #2: While being a consistently good album none of the "highlights" or "defining moments" will quite measure up to those of some of their previous releases. (Which would make it similar to ADTOE in that regard, in my opinion I should add)
I actually found the " karma starts the signal " moment in Breaking All illusions to be an anti-climax :(Agreed. I kinda have the same problem with Outcry. Great songs, could've ended better.
It almost comes out of nowhere and then the song ends almost immediately after.
It *always* sounds like there should be one more line of lyrics after that...
Edit: Ninja'd by TheGreatPretender.
I would like any of you to elaborate on this point:QuoteWild prediction #2: While being a consistently good album none of the "highlights" or "defining moments" will quite measure up to those of some of their previous releases. (Which would make it similar to ADTOE in that regard, in my opinion I should add)
It's the same for me with Bridges In The Sky. It should have ended with the high note in "Shaman take my HAAAAAND" that appears earlier in the song, but it doesn't.Yea, that's true too. Doesn't bother like the others though.
Edit: Ninja'd by TheGreatPretender.
But does this album have Apocalyptic Fun Flakes ?Or Apocalyptic James LaBrie?
(https://www.internationalvapersclub.com/images/smilies/panic.gif)
Huhhhh !But does this album have Apocalyptic Fun Flakes ?Or Apocalyptic James LaBrie?
(https://www.internationalvapersclub.com/images/smilies/panic.gif)
Thanks for the info, Meatrose. :tup
I would like any of you to elaborate on this point:QuoteWild prediction #2: While being a consistently good album none of the "highlights" or "defining moments" will quite measure up to those of some of their previous releases. (Which would make it similar to ADTOE in that regard, in my opinion I should add)
cyberdrummer pretty much said the exact same thing that I was going to say. An album may not have Peaks of Awesomeness (let's trademark that expression) that are as high as those of some other album but still have a higher level of average awesomeness. This is sort of how ADTOE beats some of DT's other albums in my opinion.
Wild prediction #6: This will be considered to be the most melodically driven album of Dream Theater's "Roadrunner era".
There are certain sections that stick out as clear and absolute defining moments for me, absolutely. The solo for "The Looking Glass" is one example, bass driven backing section with some beautiful organs layered between, and a damn good emotional guitar solo from JP. Shivers.(https://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/smiley-excited001.gif)
The riff that leads "Surrender to Reason", with some absolutely insane drumming and again with those organs. Very much "Deep Purplish".
And "Illumination Theory" after the orchestra has played... There's this insane drum sticks and jazzy piano section that just brings the song to a whole 'nother level.
I don't think you should be afraid that there won't be any lasting "defining moments" on this album - but they'll most definitively be different from any other defining moments you've heard from this band.
There are certain sections that stick out as clear and absolute defining moments for me, absolutely. The solo for "The Looking Glass" is one example, bass driven backing section with some beautiful organs layered between, and a damn good emotional guitar solo from JP. Shivers.
The riff that leads "Surrender to Reason", with some absolutely insane drumming and again with those organs. Very much "Deep Purplish".
And "Illumination Theory" after the orchestra has played... There's this insane drum sticks and jazzy piano section that just brings the song to a whole 'nother level.
I don't think you should be afraid that there won't be any lasting "defining moments" on this album - but they'll most definitively be different from any other defining moments you've heard from this band.
There's a reason my review is over 7000 words long...
Seems to get longer each time you refer to it. :lol
Seems to get longer each time you refer to it. :lol
I thought the biggest anti-climax was in Bridges In The Sky. I mean, the way the final "hand" went down instead of up just sounded kind of... Ugly... IMO. And completely derails what's an otherwise near perfect song.
:eyebrows:Seems to get longer each time you refer to it. :lol
That's what happens when you're given time to polish it all day long...
Seems to get longer each time you refer to it. :lol
That's what happens when you're given time to polish it all day long...
Thanks for sharing your thoughts, Meatrose! :tup
Wild prediction #6: This will be considered to be the most melodically driven album of Dream Theater's "Roadrunner era".
Wild prediction #6: This will be considered to be the most melodically driven album of Dream Theater's "Roadrunner era".
It's been kind of hard to get a sense of this album from the comments. It sounds like cinematic is the key feature. It's going to be
interesting to see how we all absorb this. I've noticed that the ratings on Progarchives have gone steadily down to about 3.5 now.
I've always considered that site to be a decent sounding board for the "average" concensus. Oh well...nothing will block my ability
to listen with a completely open mind on 9/24.
It's been kind of hard to get a sense of this album from the comments. It sounds like cinematic is the key feature. It's going to be
interesting to see how we all absorb this. I've noticed that the ratings on Progarchives have gone steadily down to about 3.5 now.
I've always considered that site to be a decent sounding board for the "average" concensus. Oh well...nothing will block my ability
to listen with a completely open mind on 9/24.
It's been kind of hard to get a sense of this album from the comments. It sounds like cinematic is the key feature. It's going to be
interesting to see how we all absorb this. I've noticed that the ratings on Progarchives have gone steadily down to about 3.5 now.
I've always considered that site to be a decent sounding board for the "average" concensus. Oh well...nothing will block my ability
to listen with a completely open mind on 9/24.
Same. Remember when I read Ulver's Perdition City reviews. Many where just waaay negative, but I decided to give it a try anyway. Well, after many years, I still believe it's a real masterpiece.
I say this in my reviews- and i'm paraphrasing here; it's not my fav dt album, but it's not among my least favs either. I'd say it's above average, but the average being what it is means it's a pretty good one. But i doubt anything will reach as high for me as 90s dt, which is why i'm sticking with above average.How do you rank ADToE?
With regards to ratings... I think it'll end up as a 3,5 on progarchives even after release. Maybe up to 3.8.
How do you rank ADToE?
Have to say, thanks to cyber and Meatrose, and of course noxon as well, for all the snippets of information. It really is building quite a nice hype for me - I'm pretty good at approaching things with minimal expectation or preconception, but this is one of those cases where I do find it quite exciting and all these little tidbits are contributing nicely to that!
i wish i could! sept 9th.SOMEONE! HURRY! GET THE COUNTDOWN CLOCK!
Same. Remember when I read Ulver's Perdition City reviews. Many where just waaay negative, but I decided to give it a try anyway. Well, after many years, I still believe it's a real masterpiece.
I say this in my reviews- and i'm paraphrasing here; it's not my fav dt album, but it's not among my least favs either. I'd say it's above average, but the average being what it is means it's a pretty good one. But i doubt anything will reach as high for me as 90s dt, which is why i'm sticking with above average.
With regards to ratings... I think it'll end up as a 3,5 on progarchives even after release. Maybe up to 3.8.
No, it does! And it's what I wanted to hear frankly. ADTOE too lacked the big, immediately discernible moment, but with later listenings a lot of peaks surfaced (the guit solo in BAI, "karma starts the signal", the BTS solo and so on). Hopefully DTDT will behave similarly! :tup
For me, the defining moments in ADTOE are the 1st "Shaman take my hand" (then comes the Final Fantasy 8 section :rollin) and BAI 9:06...OH MY GOD! I'M NOT THE ONLY ONE WHO THINKS OF FF8 WHEN I LISTEN TO THAT PART! YES!
Other cool moments are the piano melody in Outcry(with that bassline behind ::)) after the instrumental section, LNF Petrucci's solo and the guitar riff before the keyboard one,BITS solos :tup
OH MY GOD! I'M NOT THE ONLY ONE WHO THINKS OF FF8 WHEN I LISTEN TO THAT PART! YES!
For me, the defining moments in ADTOE are the 1st "Shaman take my hand" (then comes the Final Fantasy 8 section :rollin) and BAI 9:06...OH MY GOD! I'M NOT THE ONLY ONE WHO THINKS OF FF8 WHEN I LISTEN TO THAT PART! YES!
Other cool moments are the piano melody in Outcry(with that bassline behind ::)) after the instrumental section, LNF Petrucci's solo and the guitar riff before the keyboard one,BITS solos :tup
For me, the defining moments in ADTOE are the 1st "Shaman take my hand" (then comes the Final Fantasy 8 section :rollin) and BAI 9:06...OH MY GOD! I'M NOT THE ONLY ONE WHO THINKS OF FF8 WHEN I LISTEN TO THAT PART! YES!
Other cool moments are the piano melody in Outcry(with that bassline behind ::)) after the instrumental section, LNF Petrucci's solo and the guitar riff before the keyboard one,BITS solos :tup
There are more of us than you might think :tup
Yeah, pretty sure everyone who has played FF8 noticed that the first time they heard it.For me, the defining moments in ADTOE are the 1st "Shaman take my hand" (then comes the Final Fantasy 8 section :rollin) and BAI 9:06...OH MY GOD! I'M NOT THE ONLY ONE WHO THINKS OF FF8 WHEN I LISTEN TO THAT PART! YES!
Other cool moments are the piano melody in Outcry(with that bassline behind ::)) after the instrumental section, LNF Petrucci's solo and the guitar riff before the keyboard one,BITS solos :tup
There are more of us than you might think :tup
@cyberdrummer
how heavy is this album altogether? From what im hearing it sounds very light prog rock like the I&M and Awake days. Is Enemy pretty much the only track with some really headbangable riffs?
Have to say, thanks to cyber and Meatrose, and of course noxon as well, for all the snippets of information. It really is building quite a nice hype for me - I'm pretty good at approaching things with minimal expectation or preconception, but this is one of those cases where I do find it quite exciting and all these little tidbits are contributing nicely to that!
Yeah, we are so lucky we didn't hear it yet... :rant:
A photo from last week:
*snip*
A photo from last week:
*snip*
Is this the first we see from cyber-D? :D
And by the way, I had no idea JR was there as well! :oMe either.
Not for me, I've met you in person. :PA photo from last week:
*snip*
Is this the first we see from cyber-D? :D
Haha it might well be.
James doesn't seem excited at all, he's like "can we leave and have dinner, please?"
Yeah, it has to be the new kiwi diet.He's eating everything but kiwi? :neverusethis:
I'm assuming all of this kiwi talk is in reference to his radio interview a few days ago...?
I'll bet that blogger who was scolding DT for having a listening party for a bunch of suits and not for the fans feels pretty fuckin stupid right about now.
extremely advanced age!
DT posted a pic from the visit to Stockholm.
(https://i.imgur.com/6xJMhdH.jpg)
Where are you, Meatrose?
Wow, JP is definitely slimming down, looks good though!
All that chocolate cake must be lo-fat then.
Wow, JP is definitely slimming down, looks good though!
He probably hasn't had time to hit the gym with recording and promoting the album. :P
All that chocolate cake must be lo-fat then.
Or metaphorical. The cake was a lie!
All that chocolate cake must be lo-fat then.
Or metaphorical. The cake was a lie!
That means his guitar sound is actually dry as a dead dingo's donger :omg:
All that chocolate cake must be lo-fat then.
Or metaphorical. The cake was a lie!
That means his guitar sound is actually dry as a dead dingo's donger :omg:
I'm starting to think you're far more Australian than I am. :lol
Looks a lot more tooooneeeed now if you ask me.FTFY :neverusethis:
That's cause he's not on tour anymore, so he can eat really healthy instead of whatever they can find while they're on the road.
I think it's his roots coming through white. He is in his 50's now.
:rollin :rollin :rollin :rollin :rollinI think it's his roots coming through white. He is in his 50's now.
"And you ask me why my hair's gray "
A couple of people commenting on the Shaman's blog who have listened to the album ranks The Looking Glass, IT, The Bigger Picture and Surrender to Reason as the best songs in the album.
In particular a guy has given his opinions on the general quality of the album (sorry for the bad traslation from spanish, is not my language). Nothing really new from what we already know, though...
I post that in this thread in order to see if cyber and Meatrose can confirm these assessments.
'IT is not worse than Octavarium. That I assure you. The majority will like IT more than 8V.
Among the short songs, there is some jewel, and you' ll discover what they are, because it is not hard to do.
The rest of the album takes a positive evaluation at least.
When I heard the album last week, it was obvious to me that TEI was going to be the single, for the kind of song it is because the other tracks, even the shorter ones, are more complex especially for the public not used to the prog.
The album is a gem from top to bottom, no weaknesses in any time or place. It's a question of taste, but TBP, TLG and EM fascinated me (all the songs did, and I won't say anything about IT, because it's from another planet).
Jordan said some time ago that Mike Mangini was the "shining star" of this work, and his statement is true, but there are many highlights of everyone else.'
[Asking the similarities with ADTOE or any other album]:
'At various points yes (TEI clearly reminds OTBOA).
However, DT12 has elements of all discs (seems they did that intentionally, and that's why they self titled the album).
On this album predominate ADTOE, SDOIT, I & W, Octavarium, WDADU and SFAM vibes, but it' s heavier than all those.
ADTOE for me was very good. This is a little better.
What happens with every DT album is that it ends up being something very personal for everyone. Never unanimous judgements with them, beceause many fans tend to over-analyze too much rather than enjoy the music, although SC and BCSL are considered the weakest from the majority of the fans.
Still, I think many people will dislike DT12, but is far superior to ToT which achieved wide acceptance.
For example, there are some people who miss Portnoy, while I consider DT has improved musically with Mangini (Portnoy could not play many drum parts in ADTOE and much less of the superbly performed ones on DT12).
You will hear and judge. It's the album that synthesizes DT more clearly.
[...]
DT12 is pretty good (I heard him completely for several days), but we need to hear it several times to capture what the band got.
It's their best work since the great SDOIT.
All that stands out in DT12: how well Mangini fits to the band, how good is Petrucci as producer without Portnoy, Muyng's return to prominence, the increasingly smarter musical approach from Rudess, how is LaBrie's voice revitalized and the hard work of Rich Chycki.'
another user:
'The mix is the sharpest from FII. The warmth of LaBrie is even higher than that shown in ADTOE. This album sounds very solid, and contains some heavy [loud] moments, but is generally maintained to a comfort zone [in terms of loudness] in which sounds incredibly good.
It's a story, but more abstract than SFAM. You'll see, it's a pretty epic story about fighting against yourself and overcome, or so I understood.'
The solo in TEI definitely reminds me of OTBOA and I can see why someone could see similarities between some other parts of the songs as well.
The solo in TEI definitely reminds me of OTBOA and I can see why someone could see similarities between some other parts of the songs as well.
It's their best work since the great SDOIT.
It's their best work since the great SDOIT.
I doubt it, it will already be a surprise if it is better than 8varium at least
My first thought is that they were kind of similar too. It must be the key. For the first week after listening the TEI, whenever i tried to hum the melody, I always morphed it into OTBOA.Pretty much this. After listening to TEI OTBOA always kept playing in my head.
You all are fucking nuts. Octavarium is fantastic.It's their best work since the great SDOIT.
I doubt it, it will already be a surprise if it is better than 8varium at least
Being better than Octavarium won't be much of an accomplishment; nor will it be a claim for being their "best work to date." It'll just mean they didn't make the worst album of their careers.
Guys, don't take that comments too seriously. Anyone can post in my blog, and this past month there have been many trolls and fake listeners. But it's funny to see that translation, usually my work is the other way around! :lol
nor will it be a claim for being their "best work to date."
A lot of the riffs in between verses of both songs are in a similar vein. The style of the two songs are so different that it doesn't really matter anyway.The solo in TEI definitely reminds me of OTBOA and I can see why someone could see similarities between some other parts of the songs as well.
I don't think some similarities in the solo justify calling two songs that sound completely different similar. I just don't get it.
Being better than Octavarium won't be much of an accomplishment; nor will it be a claim for being their "best work to date." It'll just mean they didn't make the worst album of their careers.You all are fucking nuts. Octavarium is fantastic.
Being better than Octavarium won't be much of an accomplishment; nor will it be a claim for being their "best work to date." It'll just mean they didn't make the worst album of their careers.You all are fucking nuts. Octavarium is fantastic.
:metal
Being better than SDOIT on the other hand doesn't sound like a big accomplishment.
You all are fucking nuts. Octavarium is fantastic.
SDOIT is their best album, you silly boy.
Well, he has a point in that every single album DT has released has been splitting the fanbase. The first one I recall was FII, which had a huge negative reaction. SFAM was much more positively recieved but even there there were fans who just couldn't stand the change in direction from the preceding albums. SDOIT is the one that sticks to my memory as the one with the most harsh fan reactions - but it may be that i've become so adjusted to half of the fans not liking an album by now that i don't react to it anymore. We even did an interview with Mike Portnoy at that time where he covered the fact that people are so split in reactions to whatever they do, and the reason we asked that question was because of how the album was recieved...I completely agree with all of this. And to be honest, it's not just DT, it's basically the case with all bands who have a very large and diverse fanbase and have been around for a long time. They pick up so many fans from different backgrounds and tastes that the fanbase is full of different likes and dislikes. So any particular album or song will please some and repel others.
the melodic movements and the way the songs progress and "evolve" is more creative and quirky, more so than on any of their releases from this century.
the melodic movements and the way the songs progress and "evolve" is more creative and quirky, more so than on any of their releases from this century.
:o exactly what I like and expect from them. If the result is different from any other album because of that I'll be so happy! can't wait!!!
Hey Noxon, I remember when you had first heard the album, it seemed like you were leaning toward it not being one of their best, in your opinion. Since then, have you listened to it more and maybe changed your mind and started to like it more? Is it growing on you? Or do you kinda stand by your initial feelings of it?I'm also interested in this.
the melodic movements and the way the songs progress and "evolve" is more creative and quirky, more so than on any of their releases from this century.
:o exactly what I like and expect from them. If the result is different from any other album because of that I'll be so happy! can't wait!!!
Hey Noxon, I remember when you had first heard the album, it seemed like you were leaning toward it not being one of their best, in your opinion. Since then, have you listened to it more and maybe changed your mind and started to like it more? Is it growing on you? Or do you kinda stand by your initial feelings of it?
the melodic movements and the way the songs progress and "evolve" is more creative and quirky, more so than on any of their releases from this century.
:o exactly what I like and expect from them. If the result is different from any other album because of that I'll be so happy! can't wait!!!
Absolutely. However, my mind is about to explode: is this album heavier and more melodic at the same time?
"There's enough old and new here to keep any Dream Theater fan happy as well as attracting even more new fans, proving to us all that Dream Theater still has much life in it and will be with us for many many years to come. This is an album that fans will love, I'm sure of it."
This is the best thing I've heard about the album.Hey Noxon, I remember when you had first heard the album, it seemed like you were leaning toward it not being one of their best, in your opinion. Since then, have you listened to it more and maybe changed your mind and started to like it more? Is it growing on you? Or do you kinda stand by your initial feelings of it?
My initial reaction to the album was very much colored by the way it sounds, and it just wasn't that pleasant for me. It was a case of hearing fatigue where the loudness caused none of the melodies to stick. I found the album to be bland and melodyless, but it turned out that the reason for it was the way I was listening to the album (too loud) and that colored my judgments a lot. After i broke the album down, and started listening to single elements, i found qualities in there that are very very good. And this is not a reaction i'm alone with - several of the other promo holders i've spoken too has had the same reaction...
So I'd say the album has improved a lot. In fact, it's very much opposite of what SC and BCSL was in the regard - where I initially ranked the album much higher than I do now. But i mean, there's 12 albums, and four of them will require superhuman feats of musicianship to break their nostalgic power they hold over me, so NO album will probably ever be much more than "above average" for me as --- unless DT becomes as proficient as Frank Zappa was and releases 50 more albums :D
"There's enough old and new here to keep any Dream Theater fan happy as well as attracting even more new fans, proving to us all that Dream Theater still has much life in it and will be with us for many many years to come. This is an album that fans will love, I'm sure of it." <- part of my conclusion in my review.
It's denser. It's more "wall of sound"-ish. The songs themselves are actually much more "images and words" in heavyness if you just listen to what the instruments actually do (melodywise).
No, what i mean is that the songs are more like images and words in terms of the rhythms and notes played, but the volume and the power of the allover sound (it's very busy, very loud) of the album is what makes us think it's heavy.
I completely understand your point about hearing fatigue. I had the same issue with The Enemy Inside, where i almost didn't like it at all at the beginning since it was a tiring listen.
After many listens though, i enjoy it very much. Hopefully this won't be an issue with the album since i know what to expect.
Estiui: The album keeps up that volume and and constant barrage of sound for at least the first four songs (and in actuality most of the album), so...
No, what i mean is that the songs are more like images and words in terms of the rhythms and notes played, but the volume and the power of the allover sound (it's very busy, very loud) of the album is what makes us think it's heavy.
But hearing the noise of the record being played is one of the best parts D:No, what i mean is that the songs are more like images and words in terms of the rhythms and notes played, but the volume and the power of the allover sound (it's very busy, very loud) of the album is what makes us think it's heavy.
so lets hope the hd tracks / vinyl sounds much better right? ;)
For me the HD tracks of ADTOE sounds great! even better than my vinyl cause we dont hear any noises from the vinyl being played ;D
I think that I&W is a fatiguing album because of its sound (production, whatever)Never heard this one before.
I think that I&W is a fatiguing album because of its sound (production, whatever)Never heard this one before.
Sorry Noxon, I didn't mean to start up the hoard of questions! :facepalm: :lol
Guys,what kind of emotions did the album provoke to you?I am asking Noxon,Cyberdrummer and Meatrose who have listened to the whole album.Would you say it's an emotional album or a technical one?And finally,is there any part that could cause tears to the listener(of joy,sadness,thrill or any kind,just pure emotion)?
I actually found the " karma starts the signal " moment in Breaking All illusions to be an anti-climax :(Agreed. I kinda have the same problem with Outcry. Great songs, could've ended better.
It almost comes out of nowhere and then the song ends almost immediately after.
It *always* sounds like there should be one more line of lyrics after that...
Then there are the "answer" in songs that provide solace, guidance and comfort, and these songs are more uplifting and spiritual.This makes me very happy. The spiritual side of DT has always been my favorite aspect of their music. :2metal:
I am expecially drawn by the "emotional rollercoaster" remark.
It's denser. It's more "wall of sound"-ish. The songs themselves are actually much more "images and words" in heavyness if you just listen to what the instruments actually do (melodywise).
in every one except illumination theory and the instrumentals, the song names are prominently displayed as the centerpiece of the chorus.
in every one except illumination theory and the instrumentals, the song names are prominently displayed as the centerpiece of the chorus.
in every one except illumination theory and the instrumentals, the song names are prominently displayed as the centerpiece of the chorus.
Does that mean that he says the name of the songs in the middle of each chorus? :neverusethis:
The Bigger Picture, The Bigger Picture
The Bigger Picture, The Bigger Picture
The Bigger Picture, The Bigger Picture
The Bigger Picture, The Bigger Picture
in every one except illumination theory and the instrumentals, the song names are prominently displayed as the centerpiece of the chorus.
Damn. I hate how DT always does that.
in every one except illumination theory and the instrumentals, the song names are prominently displayed as the centerpiece of the chorus.
Damn. I hate how DT always does that.
Why? Isn't that what most bands do?in every one except illumination theory and the instrumentals, the song names are prominently displayed as the centerpiece of the chorus.
Damn. I hate how DT always does that.
I always point back to Bridges in the Sky. The Shaman's Trance was the PERFECT title for that song, but it got replaced with something that just seems so generic in hindsight. I'm not suggesting that most titles should be a little different, but it would be nice to see a little variety.
I've always preferred Bridges in the Sky. It sounds much more fascinating and not cheesy like The Shaman's Trance.Agreed, Bridges in the Sky is much more interesting and poetic.
I've always preferred Bridges in the Sky. It sounds much more fascinating and not cheesy like The Shaman's Trance.
I've always preferred Bridges in the Sky. It sounds much more fascinating and not cheesy like The Shaman's Trance.
This.
I'm glad they changed the title too. The Shaman's Trance sounds very out of place compared to the rest of the titles.
ADTOE had their least "cheesy" song titles in my opinion which was a nice change.
The Test That Stumped Them All is another one. :tupI've always preferred Bridges in the Sky. It sounds much more fascinating and not cheesy like The Shaman's Trance.
This.
I'm glad they changed the title too. The Shaman's Trance sounds very out of place compared to the rest of the titles.
ADTOE had their least "cheesy" song titles in my opinion which was a nice change.
Agreed.
Also, I usually don't mind when a name is said in the song.. but it's a lot more interesting when it isn't said as prominently, an example being Breaking All Illusions. Or songs where the name isn't said at all, but just alluded to or referenced (The Great Debate comes to mind, but that song's original title was actually said in the song ::) )
Agreed.
Also, I usually don't mind when a name is said in the song.. but it's a lot more interesting when it isn't said as prominently, an example being Breaking All Illusions. Or songs where the name isn't said at all, but just alluded to or referenced (The Great Debate comes to mind, but that song's original title was actually said in the song ::) )
The Test That Stumped Them All is another one. :tup
Agreed.
Also, I usually don't mind when a name is said in the song.. but it's a lot more interesting when it isn't said as prominently, an example being Breaking All Illusions. Or songs where the name isn't said at all, but just alluded to or referenced (The Great Debate comes to mind, but that song's original title was actually said in the song ::) )
Panic Attack? I don't think they ever specifically use the line in the song, even though the entire song is about it. I don't know what the original/working title might have been so I could be totally off-base here.The Test That Stumped Them All is another one. :tup
No it is: "Hoping to find in me the answer to the test that stumped them all".
You're fuckin right. How did I forget that? What about ACOS. All that's said is "seasons change" right? And Regression, I don't think it does in About To Crash, nor do I think it does in ITPOE or HTF. But that's just off the top of my head. I could be wrong again. Hmmmm..The Test That Stumped Them All is another one. :tup
No it is: "Hoping to find in me the answer to the test that stumped them all".
I've always preferred Bridges in the Sky. It sounds much more fascinating and not cheesy like The Shaman's Trance.
This.
I'm glad they changed the title too. The Shaman's Trance sounds very out of place compared to the rest of the titles.
ADTOE had their least "cheesy" song titles in my opinion which was a nice change.
Also, I usually don't mind when a name is said in the song.. but it's a lot more interesting when it isn't said as prominently, an example being Breaking All Illusions. Or songs where the name isn't said at all, but just alluded to or referenced (The Great Debate comes to mind, but that song's original title was actually said in the song ::) )Under a Glass Moon is another good example for the first (good thing they didn't call it Praying for Time) and Scarred for the second. A Nightmare to Remember is the only song off the top of my head which starts and ends with the same phrase. Are the any others?
Also, I usually don't mind when a name is said in the song.. but it's a lot more interesting when it isn't said as prominently, an example being Breaking All Illusions. Or songs where the name isn't said at all, but just alluded to or referenced (The Great Debate comes to mind, but that song's original title was actually said in the song ::) )Under a Glass Moon is another good example for the first (good thing they didn't call it Praying for Time) and Scarred for the second. A Nightmare to Remember is the only song off the top of my head which starts and ends with the same phrase. Are the any others?
Maybe I've got the meaning of "cheesy" wrong but how's "Bridges In The Sky" not cheesy?Even if it were cheesy which it's not, how could it be more cheesy than The Shaman's Trance?
Maybe I've got the meaning of "cheesy" wrong but how's "Bridges In The Sky" not cheesy?
Maybe I've got the meaning of "cheesy" wrong but how's "Bridges In The Sky" not cheesy?Even if it were cheesy which it's not, how could it be more cheesy than The Shaman's Trance?
Maybe I've got the meaning of "cheesy" wrongYeah, maybe so.
I still maintain that the album should have been named "Bridges In The Sky" and the song named "The Shaman's Trance".Bridges in The Sky would be an awesome album title.
It also wouldn't have spawned all of the "OHMYGERD, THEY'RE REFRENCING PORTNOY LEAVING AND JABBING AT HIM?" comments that A Dramatic Turn of Events did :rollinI still maintain that the album should have been named "Bridges In The Sky" and the song named "The Shaman's Trance".Bridges in The Sky would be an awesome album title.
Also matches the album art a little better - seem to recall that was the intention back when Hugh Syme was googling clowns.I still maintain that the album should have been named "Bridges In The Sky" and the song named "The Shaman's Trance".Bridges in The Sky would be an awesome album title.
Do song titles like "False Awakening", "Live, Die, Kill" and "Embracing Circle" suggest that a Metropolis Part 3 might be on the way?
Or, it could be a concept album about the Hulk.
I don't think it's a continuation of anything other than there various themes and images to which the band occasionally returns.
Oh,and how would you describe JP playing on the album?Does it have new elements or is it something noteworthy?
Noxon,which song has the best perfomance of each of the band members-in your opinion-?
I know, right?Or, it could be a concept album about the Hulk.
This. I'm so hoping it's this.
I know, right?
It's about time they had a follow up to Awake.
:djhef:
It must be more than two, surely? A divine being such as Hef must have more than us mere mortals.:djhef:
:eek How many emoticons do you have?
Oh,and how would you describe JP playing on the album?Does it have new elements or is it something noteworthy?Noxon,which song has the best perfomance of each of the band members-in your opinion-?
I don't think it's a continuation of anything other than there various themes and images to which the band occasionally returns.
Sure. They might even be pulling our legs. Dunno. I just thought it might be fun to discuss something meaty.
"Enemy Inside" is more interesting to me than just about anything from the previous album. I've probably listened to it more this week than any of Dramatic Turn's tracks in the past year. I mean, there were some good tunes on the last album -- and quite possibly James LaBrie's absolute best singing ever -- but my heart just didn't love it. Enemy Inside seems to have more soul, and the track listing for the new album suggests more intellectual depth is on the way, no matter what.
So even if my idle speculation above is complete nonsense, I still think it's worth something that the band is thinking in terms of epic material -- yes, agreed, the various themes they often return to -- rather than a simple collection of disconnected and relatively shallow songs, which is what I felt of the previous album.
I don't think it's a continuation of anything other than there various themes and images to which the band occasionally returns.
Enemy Inside seems to have more soul,
What do you mean by this? :huh:
They're like tribbles. I don't keep up.:djhef:
:eek How many emoticons do you have?
Do song titles like "False Awakening", "Live, Die, Kill" and "Embracing Circle" suggest that a Metropolis Part 3 might be on the way?
Why? Isn't that what most bands do?in every one except illumination theory and the instrumentals, the song names are prominently displayed as the centerpiece of the chorus.
Damn. I hate how DT always does that.
Meatrose called it a "song", he wasn't much sure about that though ..
Yeah, maybe it's what most bands do... but DT is not just a regular band... They not ALWAYS do that..Well, I didn't say regular bands, I said most bands. I don't even know what "regular band" means. :lol However...
They don't in these songs:Exactly, they do it for some of their songs, and they have done it for one of the songs on this album, so it seems pretty much par for the course for them. Interesting that you posted that list though, hadn't realised they had so many songs like that on SC.
- Scarred
- A Change of Seasons
- Regression
- The Great Debate (first called "Conflict at Ground Zero", so it would be the opposite case to BitS/TST)
- Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence (or, if you want: About to Crash and About to Crash (reprise))
- Honor Thy Father
- Panic Attack
- In the Presence of Enemies
- Repentance
- Prophets of War
- The Ministry of Lost Souls
- In the Presence of Enemies
And now we should also add to the list "Illumination Theory"
Maybe these facts (excluding the last one), are also part of the reasons why this is (if not their most) one of their most underrated albums...
Maybe these facts (excluding the last one), are also part of the reasons why this is (if not their most) one of their most underrated albums...
Maybe these facts (excluding the last one), are also part of the reasons why this is (if not their most) one of their most underrated albums...
Nah, they don't like it because most think SC it's simply not good or because it doesn't compare to other albums(the majority of the fans will rank SC in the bottom).
Quote from: ToT-147Maybe these facts (excluding the last one), are also part of the reasons why this is (if not their most) one of their most underrated albums...
I'd be worried if people made opinions about albums based on such small (and imho unimportant) details.
I quote myself then.. I said: "part of the reasons"... Little part of the reasons I should have "say" (write)... Anyway, sorry for having diverted the post's main topic..
To go back to the subject, I got to ask this... Noxon, seems like you haven't just heard the album in a Listening Party.. Maybe you explain it before, sorry in that case.. But, how did you obtain it? if I may ask.. I guess you have exceptional access to it or something.. ???
I'm not sure the majority rank it at the very bottom. I think at least an equal number of fans would say that WDADU is their least favorite, and then you'll also have a significant number who will put BCSL there. Then there are smaller numbers who will put another album like 8VM, ToT or FII at the bottom. I think you could say maybe 30% or even a little more of fans put SC at the bottom, but I would not be so quick to say a majority. It's not like a St. Anger type of thing where most people agree that it is significantly worse than the rest of their discography. There is not a consensus to that effect.
I quote myself then.. I said: "part of the reasons"... Little part of the reasons I should have "say" (write)... Anyway, sorry for having diverted the post's main topic..
To go back to the subject, I got to ask this... Noxon, seems like you haven't just heard the album in a Listening Party.. Maybe you explain it before, sorry in that case.. But, how did you obtain it? if I may ask.. I guess you have exceptional access to it or something.. ???
He's been reviewing Dream Theater albums for a good time now, so he got a promo copy.
I mean, most of the people who don't like SC (being fan or not) haven't heard it the enough times it takes to get to understand it in its complexity and artistic rarity... Only giving it the proper time they should be able to judge it.. That is, pretty much as all, (not just, I always say) a personal opinion..
Or, it could be a concept album about the Hulk.
So, if i don't like an album, i don't understand the complexity of it? Didn't know that, i will go listen to St.Anger again, maybe it's a masterpiece :justjen
Ow man, don't complicate things, when i said "in the bottom", i didn't meant the absolutely WORST, just one of the 3 or 4 most low rated albums by the fans... even the majority of people that aren't DT fans but like their music a bit will agree to that (about Systematic Chaos)
I mean, most of the people who don't like SC (being fan or not) haven't heard it the enough times it takes to get to understand it in its complexity and artistic rarity...I have listened to SC quite a few times and it has only gotten worse. When I got it I thought it was a cool record, but later I started to see more and more flaws in the songs.
I mean, most of the people who don't like SC (being fan or not) haven't heard it the enough times it takes to get to understand it in its complexity and artistic rarity... Only giving it the proper time they should be able to judge it.. That is, pretty much as all, (not just, I always say) a personal opinion.. So I'm just saying it.. SC is different from the other albums also in that way.. It takes longer than usual to digest than any other DT album (which btw it's already too long by itself)..
Actually, that's another reason for that low appreciation, which of course exists... I'll only modify your last sentence by this one: Specially the majority of people that aren't DT fans but like their music a bit will agree to that (about Systematic Chaos)...
I mean, most of the people who don't like SC (being fan or not) haven't heard it the enough times it takes to get to understand it in its complexity and artistic rarity... Only giving it the proper time they should be able to judge it.. That is, pretty much as all, (not just, I always say) a personal opinion.. So I'm just saying it.. SC is different from the other albums also in that way.. It takes longer than usual to digest than any other DT album (which btw it's already too long by itself)..
Actually, that's another reason for that low appreciation, which of course exists... I'll only modify your last sentence by this one: Specially the majority of people that aren't DT fans but like their music a bit will agree to that (about Systematic Chaos)...
I mean, most of the people who don't like SC (being fan or not) haven't heard it the enough times it takes to get to understand it in its complexity and artistic rarity... Only giving it the proper time they should be able to judge it.. That is, pretty much as all, (not just, I always say) a personal opinion.. So I'm just saying it.. SC is different from the other albums also in that way.. It takes longer than usual to digest than any other DT album (which btw it's already too long by itself)..
I love SC, but no. The whole "you don't like the album because you don't understand it" argument is ridiculous. Also, I think SC is one of the easiest DT albums to get into, together with 8VM (and maybe ADTOE).
It's definitely not in my bottom..
Actually, that's another reason for that low appreciation, which of course exists... I'll only modify your last sentence by this one: Specially the majority of people that aren't DT fans but like their music a bit will agree to that (about Systematic Chaos)...
I mean, most of the people who don't like SC (being fan or not) haven't heard it the enough times it takes to get to understand it in its complexity and artistic rarity... Only giving it the proper time they should be able to judge it.. That is, pretty much as all, (not just, I always say) a personal opinion.. So I'm just saying it.. SC is different from the other albums also in that way.. It takes longer than usual to digest than any other DT album (which btw it's already too long by itself)..
Holy hell this is ridiculous.
I pretty much have determined I shouldn't DTF without caffeine.
Holy hell this is ridiculous.
You obviously only think it's ridiculous because you haven't read it the enough times it takes to get to understand it in its complexity.
I mean, most of the people who don't like SC (being fan or not) haven't heard it the enough times it takes to get to understand it in its complexity and artistic rarity.WTF are you high?
I pretty much have determined I shouldn't DTF without caffeine.
:caffeine:
:lol :lolI mean, most of the people who don't like SC (being fan or not) haven't heard it the enough times it takes to get to understand it in its complexity and artistic rarity.WTF are you high?
I mean, most of the people who don't like SC (being fan or not) haven't heard it the enough times it takes to get to understand it in its complexity and artistic rarity.WTF are you high?
I mean, most of the people who don't like SC (being fan or not) haven't heard it the enough times it takes to get to understand it in its complexity and artistic rarity...I have listened to SC quite a few times and it has only gotten worse. When I got it I thought it was a cool record, but later I started to see more and more flaws in the songs.
You said the album needs multiple listens before you "get" it and I just wanted to say that I enjoyed it at first, but later on it has started to look weaker in my eyes. I'm not talking about the album negatively because I haven't listened to it carefully enough - I criticize it because it hasn't stood the test of time for me.
Holy hell this is ridiculous.
You obviously only think it's ridiculous because you haven't read it the enough times it takes to get to understand it in its complexity.
Do I see this becoming a short-lived DT-Side meme? :biggrin:
I mean, most of the people who don't like SC (being fan or not) haven't heard it the enough times it takes to get to understand it in its complexity and artistic rarity...I have listened to SC quite a few times and it has only gotten worse. When I got it I thought it was a cool record, but later I started to see more and more flaws in the songs.
I just went to sleep and now I wake up and get all this!!.. Don't know whether to be like this: :o, like this: :laugh:, or just like this: :huh:
I could quote all of you, but I felt some lazy so I just took this replay... It's perfect to what I was trying to express.. I never said neither you should like the album nor you would like it by listening for what deserves (TO ME).. "it has only gotten worse".. That's precisely a judgment.. And I clearly said: "Only giving it the proper time they should be able to judge it"... Not to like it: to judge it.... and that it's relative too, and depends on either one and his own perspective..
And, again, this is just my point of view.. In fact, I actually did apply that also with the so hated St. Anger and with the pretty underrated IM's A Matter of Life and Death, and these both I ended up liking it... Another one was FII, but, though it didn't become worse, I never liked so much as the rest of the albums...
Please, don't distort my words.. Although it was funny see how you reacted...
This was my sequence of expressions: :eek - :facepalm: - :smiley: - :lol
The whole "you don't like the album because you don't understand it" argument is ridiculous.
Most definitively. The most obvious ones would be Rush (The Looking Glass and particularly Surrender To Reason) and Metallica (Behind the Veil).
Hmm! Very interesting! And you said Surrender to Reason was one of your favorites on the album, right? Or am I getting people mixed up in my mind?
Also, how strong would you consider the lyrical aspect of the album?
Hmm! Very interesting! And you said Surrender to Reason was one of your favorites on the album, right? Or am I getting people mixed up in my mind?
I said that.
For me, it's albums post ToT that haven't stood the test of time. In all honesty, Octavarium was the first album I began skipping tracks on. With SC and BC&SL, it was even worse because I only listened to the albums 4 or 5 times in full and then only tracks. It was better with ADToE because I stopped skipping tracks. BUT I am waiting for another album that will last for more than a month for me. Let's wait and see.
B.Lee
EDIT : you're right Stray Seed, we should keep this talk for another place.
The whole "you don't like the album because you don't understand it" argument is ridiculous.
Thank God, though i be alone in this (or "on this", i'm not american :P)
Most definitively. The most obvious ones would be Rush (The Looking Glass and particularly Surrender To Reason) and Metallica (Behind the Veil).
Oh... Shit.
Older Metallica, like 80s Metallica, or more recent Metallica?
I may be completely wrong, but I think he mentioned Enter Sandman.
Last time I really heard Metallica in a DT song, we got Peruvian Skies. Could be awesome.
Also, to me, Metallica's problem has never been that they couldn't write good music. They have long had problems with knowing how much of use of a musical idea is too much (St. Anger) and with quality control (Load and Reload). Dream Theater has not had either one of these problems.
Hmm! Very interesting! And you said Surrender to Reason was one of your favorites on the album, right? Or am I getting people mixed up in my mind?
I said that.
Ah, right. Well then, would you agree with noxon that it's got a Rush influence? Just curious here. :)
You're saying that 8V, SC and BC&SL didn't "last" for more than a month to you?!!.. Well, I feel sorry for you then..
N/C/M: do you guys think this new DT album will last for more than a month?..
The whole "you don't like the album because you don't understand it" argument is ridiculous.
Thank God, though i be alone in this (or "on this", i'm not american :P)
I already clarified I never said such a thing...
I mean, most of the people who don't like SC (being fan or not) haven't heard it the enough times it takes to get to understand it in its complexity and artistic rarity
Last time I really heard Metallica in a DT song, we got Peruvian Skies. Could be awesome.
Actually I think the first three tracks on TOT are all significantly influenced by Metallica, Endless Sacrifice being the "Fade to Black/Sanitarium/One" structured style
I'd love to hear another song where it sounds like they're having as much fun.
Actually I think the first three tracks on TOT are all significantly influenced by Metallica, Endless Sacrifice being the "Fade to Black/Sanitarium/One" structured style
Saying your music is influenced by Coldplay is a massive insult to Labrie.
I like The Edge more than I like U2 - whom I do like.
hate Coldplay because Chris is a shit singer but the 2nd album has about 5 good songs on it.
As far as DT12 is concerned, I was pleasantly surprised to hear JP say that the album was influenced by Periphery and in particular Animals as Leaders. I hope to hear a little injection of that in the new album; AAL is a great (relatively) new progressive metal band. This should produce a far better than saying your new prog metal album was influenced by U2 and Coldplay :lol
I'm not sure what you mean by "quality control", but I always see Load/Reload and FII in the same path...
Oh, and you didn't mention the Metallica's biggest problem (IMO): their quantity of music..
I mean, I agree with you, they always have had that ability to writing nice music, but, 4 albums in 22 years??!!!... THAT's a problem....
I've never listened to Bleeding Me, but the first part of Peruvian screams Pink Floyd. Maybe that's because of the Have A Cigar jam.
Anyway, I'm glad that experiment for DT is dead and done with.
I don't hear Metallica in Constant Motion at all.Last time I really heard Metallica in a DT song, we got Peruvian Skies. Could be awesome.
Not Constant Motion? And that was... not great.
Maybe we should keep this thread on thoughts about the upcoming album?Just sayin..
The whole "you don't like the album because you don't understand it" argument is ridiculous.
Thank God, though i be alone in this (or "on this", i'm not american :P)
I already clarified I never said such a thing...
You said exactly that:I mean, most of the people who don't like SC (being fan or not) haven't heard it the enough times it takes to get to understand it in its complexity and artistic rarity
James' vocals in Constant Motion are very Hetfield.
Given that DT established their style many years before Death Magnetic ever came out, and didn't noticeably change their style in a way that is apparently influenced by that album on the two albums they've released since then, I'd say no.James' vocals in Constant Motion are very Hetfield.See, I don't think so. Maybe the combination of James and Mike's singing on the verses where they double combine to make a He
The only time I've ever heard James sounding Hetfield-esque is on "AS I AAAAYAAAA-AAAAAM! YEAH!"
So, again, stop saying bullshit about my opinion.... Don't change my words... Read first, then write a comment....
This. What you are claiming you didn't say is pretty much exactly what you said. A and B the two quotes.So, again, stop saying bullshit about my opinion.... Don't change my words... Read first, then write a comment....
I know this is horribly off-topic, buy seriously, are you kidding me? There's no need to be that harsh. And I didn't change your words. At least not their meaning. Get over it :facepalm:
:chillSeriously
This. What you are claiming you didn't say is pretty much exactly what you said. A and B the two quotes.
Now let's please get back on topic.
Why exactly does the Looking Glass harken back to the Images & Words days?
:chillSeriously
Back on topic. Noxon, Cyberdrummer, or whoever else heard the album: Is The Enigma Machine more of a technical showcase ala Erotomania or The Dance Of Eternity or is it a bit more song based like Stream Of Consciousness or Overture 1928? Sorry if this has already been asked, I've tried to follow this thread from the start, but I may have missed some.
JP mentioned it has the kind of sequencing / variety of Octavarium. I imagine it will be more like a "mixed grill" of DT styles.
Back on topic. Noxon, Cyberdrummer, or whoever else heard the album: Is The Enigma Machine more of a technical showcase ala Erotomania or The Dance Of Eternity or is it a bit more song based like Stream Of Consciousness or Overture 1928? Sorry if this has already been asked, I've tried to follow this thread from the start, but I may have missed some.
More like the former. It's very technical.
For the guys who've listened to the album, do think the sequence of the songs is good? Is there a point where the album becomes tiring because of continued heavy songs? Thanks!
I'm one that prefer ToT over SDOIT for instance
I don't even want to begin to speculate as to what it would be "better than", as that's entirely subjective. I mean, I'm one that prefer ToT over SDOIT for instance and I don't think I'm among the majority there.(https://segafans.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/mother-of-god.jpg)
I don't even want to begin to speculate as to what it would be "better than", as that's entirely subjective. I mean, I'm one that prefer ToT over SDOIT for instance and I don't think I'm among the majority there.
Okay, as of right now: SFAM-IAW-AWAKE-FII-DT12-ADTOE-TOT-SDOIT-8V-BCSL-SC-WDADU
There really is no point to that because no one else will rank the same albums identically to him. All that list will do is give you a pre-conceived notion of how the album sounded based on someone else's opinion.
Just wait for the album to come out and rank it yourself.
Very simple question to N / C / M: It is different to ADTOE?..
I mean, judging by its style, sound, feeling...
Very simple question to N / C / M: It is different to ADTOE?..
I mean, judging by its style, sound, feeling...
I am pretty sure they said that it is a completely different album not only to ADToE but to all the others.
Very simple question to N / C / M: It is different to ADTOE?..
I mean, judging by its style, sound, feeling...
I am pretty sure they said that it is a completely different album not only to ADToE but to all the others.
Correct. It really sounds like no other DT album.
JM is on fire on this album. Especially on Surrender to Reason.
I'm not sure it has been mentioned, but there's several of places where there's basically just drums and bass covering the groove while the guitar (or keyboard) does soloing (and keys/guitar maybe as a background effect to fill out the sound). JM is on fire on this album. Especially on Surrender to Reason.
I'm not sure it has been mentioned, but there's several of places where there's basically just drums and bass covering the groove while the guitar (or keyboard) does soloing (and keys/guitar maybe as a background effect to fill out the sound). JM is on fire on this album. Especially on Surrender to Reason.
And I also have the feeling that STR is the Myunger this time around.
It is also a verb!
I Myung
You Myung
He/She Myungs
We Myung
They Myung
And the classic past tense: Myung'd!
It is also a verb!
I Myung
You Myung
He/She Myungs
We Myung
They Myung
And the classic past tense: Myung'd!
How 'bout the Italian Far Past tense?
Io Myungai
Tu Myungasti
Egli/Ella Myungò
Noi Myungammo
Voi Myungaste
Essi Myungarono
Anyway, it's great to hear that JM is very involved musically as well as lyrically. I always loved what I suppose are the results of his imput.
/IT: Vabbé, è un refuso! Ci mancherebbe che io non sappia la terza plurale :P
I'm not sure it has been mentioned, but there's several of places where there's basically just drums and bass covering the groove while the guitar (or keyboard) does soloing (and keys/guitar maybe as a background effect to fill out the sound). JM is on fire on this album. Especially on Surrender to Reason.
Okay, as of right now: SFAM-IAW-AWAKE-FII-DT12-ADTOE-TOT-SDOIT-8V-BCSL-SC-WDADU
The only album that even remotely sounds like it was influenced by a past album is ADTOE, and even that's a bit of a stretch.I think Black Clouds is the album with the least identity. You could comfortably describe Black Clouds as a sort of watered down Systematic Chaos mixed with a watered down Awake.
I can confirm, he is indeed a monster. So much more freedom on this album.
I can confirm, he is indeed a monster. So much more freedom on this album.
THATS BECAUSE HE ACTUALLY PLAYED ON THIS ONE. PETRUCCI RECORDED ALL THE DRUMS ON ADTOE
I'm not sure it has been mentioned, but there's several of places where there's basically just drums and bass covering the groove while the guitar (or keyboard) does soloing (and keys/guitar maybe as a background effect to fill out the sound). JM is on fire on this album. Especially on Surrender to Reason.
Black Clouds to me strengthens the stereotype that Dream theater is just mindless wankery and I wouldn't want that album to be representative of the band.
Black Clouds to me strengthens the stereotype that Dream theater is just mindless wankery and I wouldn't want that album to be representative of the band.
Black Clouds to me strengthens the stereotype that Dream theater is just mindless wankery and I wouldn't want that album to be representative of the band.
Besides the wankery, there is so many embarassing moments too :facepalm:
Black Clouds to me strengthens the stereotype that Dream theater is just mindless wankery and I wouldn't want that album to be representative of the band.
I'm not so sure what do you mean by "wankery".. If you by that mean virtuosism, duet solos and complex technical parts.. let's see.. Let's go in order.. You'd have out of it:
1- ANTR: Intro, Beautiful Agony's part and Outro..
2- AROP: The whole song but its instrumental section
3- WITHER: The whole song
4- TSF: This is maybe the only one you can put in that category (despite Recieve, which adds the so needed balance to the song itself), with (IMO) JP's best solo in his all life (and that's hard to decide)...
5- TBOT: Where's the "wankery" on this one?.. :-\
6- TCOT: And, finally, this one has everything... Their best song since ITNOG... (should I say "IMO"? I think that's very clear... No need to do that)
Besides all this, you can't put 'mindless' and 'Dream Theater' in the same sentence.. That's an unforgivable aberration.. :censored
PS: You meant you "don't want..." or "wouldn't want..." 'Cause these are pretty different...
And I'm in the vast minority of people who like JR's solo in TSF.
6- TCOT: And, finally, this one has everything... Their best song since ITNOG...(should I say "IMO"? I think that's very clear... No need to do that)
I always have seen BC&SL as their most representative album...???
I always have seen BC&SL as their most representative album...???
I always have seen BC&SL as their most representative album...???
Allright, I'm puzzled. Hoping he was joking honestly, 'cuz to me BC&SL is definitely their worst album EVER. I mean, I'm pretty sure they can't do something more disappointing than that. But maybe that's just me.
I was just thinking if it would be a nice thread to rank the albums based on how they represent the band, but I don't know if it would work or dissolve into a chaotic mess :lol
You could make the argument that the latest album always best represents the band, because it captures the most recent definition of what the band feels represents them (especially in this case given DT's comments about DT12)This has always been the case for me. Each new album that comes out is my favorite of their catalogue for at least 3 months after it's released. Probably because every new album has something unique to distinguish it from the older stuff. It took about 8 months to a year for ADTOE to blend in with the catalogue. And by "blend in" I mean stand out a little less than when brand new.
To me, there are very few redeeming qualities about BC&SL, I really don't get how people like it.I'm the opposite, I genuinely don't understand how some DT fans can dislike it so much. The last few minutes of ANTR drag on and AROP is not very exciting, but the rest of the album is really damn good.
The worst is when people put it above I&W. ???
At least it's better than SC...
For me, both SC and BCSL are very clearcut examples of focusing on the parts that made people hate DT in the first place - technique over songs. They're very technically proficient albums, but on the way there they just lose something important in the song writing, so we end up with songs like Ministry of Lost Souls and A Nightmare to Remember that feel disjointed and just lack cohesion. Both albums also very much feel very "DT by numbers", with the exception of certain tracks or sections that just stick out as fresh and original. Unfortunately, the transitions between everything just feels a bit cut and paste for me, and formulaic. That's not to say there's not a lot of redeeming factors on the albums themselves, but there's also a reason why I put them as far behind when it comes to ranking the albums.
And that's the thing - ADTOE didn't feel like this as much, and DT doesn't feel like it at all. DT is songfocused first and foremost. It's melody and riffs. It's not about 100000 notes per second solo exchanges.
I honestly haven't found that with any of DT's albums
For me, both SC and BCSL are very clearcut examples of focusing on the parts that made people hate DT in the first place - technique over songs. They're very technically proficient albums, but on the way there they just lose something important in the song writing, so we end up with songs like Ministry of Lost Souls and A Nightmare to Remember that feel disjointed and just lack cohesion. Both albums also very much feel very "DT by numbers", with the exception of certain tracks or sections that just stick out as fresh and original. Unfortunately, the transitions between everything just feels a bit cut and paste for me, and formulaic. That's not to say there's not a lot of redeeming factors on the albums themselves, but there's also a reason why I put them as far behind when it comes to ranking the albums.
And that's the thing - ADTOE didn't feel like this as much, and DT doesn't feel like it at all. DT is songfocused first and foremost. It's melody and riffs. It's not about 100000 notes per second solo exchanges.
For me, both SC and BCSL are very clearcut examples of focusing on the parts that made people hate DT in the first place - technique over songs. They're very technically proficient albums, but on the way there they just lose something important in the song writing, so we end up with songs like Ministry of Lost Souls and A Nightmare to Remember that feel disjointed and just lack cohesion. Both albums also very much feel very "DT by numbers", with the exception of certain tracks or sections that just stick out as fresh and original. Unfortunately, the transitions between everything just feels a bit cut and paste for me, and formulaic. That's not to say there's not a lot of redeeming factors on the albums themselves, but there's also a reason why I put them as far behind when it comes to ranking the albums.
And that's the thing - ADTOE didn't feel like this as much, and DT doesn't feel like it at all. DT is songfocused first and foremost. It's melody and riffs. It's not about 100000 notes per second solo exchanges.
ADTOE is way more technical than BC&SL. The problem with BC&SL is the format. If you're going to release an album with only 6 songs, then they better all be good and they're just not. To me it's a bookend album with 4 flat songs in the middle (AROP being the best of the 4). So by the math, only 33% of the record is listenable.
We're it me I would have shortened ANTR by a minute or two, gotten rid of Wither, made TSF about half as long, gotten rid of TBOT and written 4 or 5 more 3-6 minute songs. But that's just me ;D
For me, both SC and BCSL are very clearcut examples of focusing on the parts that made people hate DT in the first place - technique over songs. They're very technically proficient albums, but on the way there they just lose something important in the song writing, so we end up with songs like Ministry of Lost Souls and A Nightmare to Remember that feel disjointed and just lack cohesion. Both albums also very much feel very "DT by numbers", with the exception of certain tracks or sections that just stick out as fresh and original. Unfortunately, the transitions between everything just feels a bit cut and paste for me, and formulaic. That's not to say there's not a lot of redeeming factors on the albums themselves, but there's also a reason why I put them as far behind when it comes to ranking the albums.
And that's the thing - ADTOE didn't feel like this as much, and DT doesn't feel like it at all. DT is songfocused first and foremost. It's melody and riffs. It's not about 100000 notes per second solo exchanges.
I couldn't agree more, especially with the bolded part.
For me, both SC and BCSL are very clearcut examples of focusing on the parts that made people hate DT in the first place - technique over songs. They're very technically proficient albums, but on the way there they just lose something important in the song writing, so we end up with songs like Ministry of Lost Souls and A Nightmare to Remember that feel disjointed and just lack cohesion. Both albums also very much feel very "DT by numbers", with the exception of certain tracks or sections that just stick out as fresh and original. Unfortunately, the transitions between everything just feels a bit cut and paste for me, and formulaic. That's not to say there's not a lot of redeeming factors on the albums themselves, but there's also a reason why I put them as far behind when it comes to ranking the albums.
And that's the thing - ADTOE didn't feel like this as much, and DT doesn't feel like it at all. DT is songfocused first and foremost. It's melody and riffs. It's not about 100000 notes per second solo exchanges.
ADTOE is way more technical than BC&SL. The problem with BC&SL is the format. If you're going to release an album with only 6 songs, then they better all be good and they're just not. To me it's a bookend album with 4 flat songs in the middle (AROP being the best of the 4). So by the math, only 33% of the record is listenable.
We're it me I would have shortened ANTR by a minute or two, gotten rid of Wither, made TSF about half as long, gotten rid of TBOT and written 4 or 5 more 3-6 minute songs. But that's just me ;D
Nuh uh. Your maths is flawed
Observe
BC&SL is 75 minutes long. ANTR and TCoT total roughly 35 minutes in length. That equates to 46.6% of the album.
This moment of pedanticism was brought to you by the number bore and some letters.
I'm with the general consenses here for BC&SL.
I can't wholly understand why SC gets the rap it does though. I think that everything bar PoW stands up as worthy DT songs. SC isn't perhaps the strongest album but I can't understand why it's derided the way it is. Just my opinion though.
I'm with the general consenses here for BC&SL.
I can't wholly understand why SC gets the rap it does though. I think that everything bar PoW stands up as worthy DT songs. SC isn't perhaps the strongest album but I can't understand why it's derided the way it is. Just my opinion though.
I always have seen BC&SL as their most representative album...???
Allright, I'm puzzled. Hoping he was joking honestly, 'cuz to me BC&SL is definitely their worst album EVER. I mean, I'm pretty sure they can't do something more disappointing than that. But maybe that's just me.
WDADU
I always have seen BC&SL as their most representative album...???
Allright, I'm puzzled. Hoping he was joking honestly, 'cuz to me BC&SL is definitely their worst album EVER. I mean, I'm pretty sure they can't do something more disappointing than that. But maybe that's just me.
WDADU
Even if you don't like WDADU, it can't possibly be considered "disappointing". Young kids making their first record without any $, I'd say it was a rousing success when looked at in that light. Now Falling Into Infinity, talk about disappointing . . . :(
Even if you don't like WDADU, it can't possibly be considered "disappointing". Young kids making their first record without any $, I'd say it was a rousing success when looked at in that light. Now Falling Into Infinity, talk about disappointing . . . :(
I always have seen BC&SL as their most representative album...???
Allright, I'm puzzled. Hoping he was joking honestly, 'cuz to me BC&SL is definitely their worst album EVER. I mean, I'm pretty sure they can't do something more disappointing than that. But maybe that's just me.
WDADU
Even if you don't like WDADU, it can't possibly be considered "disappointing". Young kids making their first record without any $, I'd say it was a rousing success when looked at in that light. Now Falling Into Infinity, talk about disappointing . . . :(
I'm with the general consenses here for BC&SL.
I can't wholly understand why SC gets the rap it does though. I think that everything bar PoW stands up as worthy DT songs. SC isn't perhaps the strongest album but I can't understand why it's derided the way it is. Just my opinion though.
I agree. SC is a weird album in as much as it's the only DT album that I have to be in the right mood for. The rest of their catalogue is something I can listen to anytime. But the fact is that there is a ton of awesome stuff going on in SC, I just think it has a very specifi vibe (dare I say one dinemsional).I kind of agree with both of these - I think Systematic Chaos is one-dimensional, and deliberately so, but it's a dimension that's often absent from the rest of DT's stuff. I can see why Systematic Chaos was loathed at the time; if you've waited two years for the next dose of DT, and that's not your preferred brand, of course you're not going to like it, and it's impossible to know how long that aspect of their identity is going to endure. Three albums later, though, I think we're at a point where it's ceased to be dangerous. It's just a big, frothy comic book album, and I think the band's oeuvre is way, way richer for it. Don't get me wrong, I don't think DT have ever been the group of pensive philosophers that some of their fans try to will into existence - all their albums are a little less "meditation," a little more "malarkey" - but I don't think they've ever been as solidly whimsical as they were on SC.
I'm with the general consenses here for BC&SL.
I can't wholly understand why SC gets the rap it does though. I think that everything bar PoW stands up as worthy DT songs. SC isn't perhaps the strongest album but I can't understand why it's derided the way it is. Just my opinion though.I agree. SC is a weird album in as much as it's the only DT album that I have to be in the right mood for. The rest of their catalogue is something I can listen to anytime. But the fact is that there is a ton of awesome stuff going on in SC, I just think it has a very specifi vibe (dare I say one dinemsional).I kind of agree with both of these - I think Systematic Chaos is one-dimensional, and deliberately so, but it's a dimension that's often absent from the rest of DT's stuff. I can see why Systematic Chaos was loathed at the time; if you've waited two years for the next dose of DT, and that's not your preferred brand, of course you're not going to like it, and it's impossible to know how long that aspect of their identity is going to endure. Three albums later, though, I think we're at a point where it's ceased to be dangerous. It's just a big, frothy comic book album, and I think the band's oeuvre is way, way richer for it. Don't get me wrong, I don't think DT have ever been the group of pensive philosophers that some of their fans try to will into existence - all their albums are a little less "meditation," a little more "malarkey" - but I don't think they've ever been as solidly whimsical as they were on SC.
I'm glad they made Systematic Chaos in 2007, rather than a more classic Dream Theater album. They expanded their identity, rather than restating it as I'd argue they did on the following two albums. (2011, by necessity, to great effect - 2009, I think possibly more out of fatigue, and less compelling for me.)
So here's another question, what other song do you think would be a good choice for a single?
So here's another question, what other song do you think would be a good choice for a single?
The Bigger Picture would be good though there are several viable candidates. The Looking Glass, Surrender To Reason and Along For The Ride would probably also be good choices from what I remember.
Props to you for making the most forced joke ever :lol :-*
If the trend stays the same, fans will hate it for a year or two then love it. Just my view.
To me, there are very few redeeming qualities about BC&SL, I really don't get how people like it.I'm the opposite, I genuinely don't understand how some DT fans can dislike it so much. The last few minutes of ANTR drag on and AROP is not very exciting, but the rest of the album is really damn good.
The worst is when people put it above I&W. ???
Production:
This whole album sounds like trash to me. Everything is just compressed to all holy hell and it makes it a pain to listen to. There is just nothing remarkable about the sounds on this album. Nothing new, nothing good. It's just all there, up front, in your face in a bad way. Portnoy's drums are all too loud, and there was no room for Myung or Jordan to be heard (much of this has to do with the actual compositions of the songs though)
BC&SL, I really don't get how people like it. The worst is when people put it above I&W. ???
Besides the wankery, there is so many embarassing moments too :facepalm: [:facepalm:]
6- TCOT: And, finally, this one has everything... Their best song since ITNOG...(should I say "IMO"? I think that's very clear [It seems like not]... No need to do that)
What about Octavarium? [excellent song, but 'even' TMOLS it's above that one IMO]
Allright, I'm puzzled. Hoping he was joking honestly, 'cuz to me BC&SL is definitely their worst album EVER. I mean, I'm pretty sure they can't do something more disappointing than that. But maybe (?) that's just me.
For the guys who've listened to the album, do think the sequence of the songs is good? Is there a point where the album becomes tiring because of continued heavy songs? Thanks!
Now, that's a good question...
I also had this doubt at some point.. I'm sure that the first 4 tracks are quite balanced each other [you have Intro, Heavy song, melodic song (should we say "ballad"?), and the Instrumental] but, what about the rest?...
I love the 90% of their music. The other 10 percent? I "just" like it.
Extremely generic metal sounds and in structure. To me the songwriting was just incredibly forgettable for this album. The only redeeming parts of the album were the beautiful agony section, and parts of The Count.
Embarrasing moments? Yeah, you know where I find those? Right in Surrounded and Wait for Sleep
QuoteEmbarrasing moments? Yeah, you know where I find those? Right in Surrounded and Wait for Sleep
You have got to be kidding me
Embarrasing moments? Yeah, you know where I find those? Right in Surrounded and Wait for Sleep... Right in Lifting Shadows, in Space-Dye-Vest:huh:
Embarrasing moments? Yeah, you know where I find those? Right in Surrounded and Wait for Sleep... Right in Lifting Shadows, in Space-Dye-Vest:huh:
QuoteEmbarrasing moments? Yeah, you know where I find those? Right in Surrounded and Wait for Sleep
You have got to be kidding me
Yeah, but his opinion is wrong.
I love the 90% of their music. The other 10 percent? I "just" like it.
Apologies for slightly chopping up your post, but I think this sentiment deserve another post just to emphasize it. This is why I've had such trouble choosing my top 50. They're all amazing songs.
Yeah, but his opinion is wrong.
What to say about THAT?... You're not getting at all the IMO part, are you?... Let's put it this way: I clearly have expressed my thoughts.. Thus, I can't be wrong.. Only if I'd have said "that's the general opinion", only then it could be wrong...
I love the 90% of their music. The other 10 percent? I "just" like it.
Apologies for slightly chopping up your post, but I think this sentiment deserve another post just to emphasize it. This is why I've had such trouble choosing my top 50. They're all amazing songs.
Finally.. :tup Thank you for making me feel that at least someone agrees with something I say.. And I agree that matter needs to be in some other post..
Yeah, but his opinion is wrong.
What to say about THAT?... You're not getting at all the IMO part, are you?... Let's put it this way: I clearly have expressed my thoughts.. Thus, I can't be wrong.. Only if I'd have said "that's the general opinion", only then it could be wrong...
For me, both SC and BCSL are very clearcut examples of focusing on the parts that made people hate DT in the first place - technique over songs. They're very technically proficient albums, but on the way there they just lose something important in the song writing, so we end up with songs like Ministry of Lost Souls and A Nightmare to Remember that feel disjointed and just lack cohesion. Both albums also very much feel very "DT by numbers", with the exception of certain tracks or sections that just stick out as fresh and original. Unfortunately, the transitions between everything just feels a bit cut and paste for me, and formulaic. That's not to say there's not a lot of redeeming factors on the albums themselves, but there's also a reason why I put them as far behind when it comes to ranking the albums.
And that's the thing - ADTOE didn't feel like this as much, and DT doesn't feel like it at all. DT is songfocused first and foremost. It's melody and riffs. It's not about 100000 notes per second solo exchanges.
ADTOE is way more technical than BC&SL. The problem with BC&SL is the format. If you're going to release an album with only 6 songs, then they better all be good and they're just not. To me it's a bookend album with 4 flat songs in the middle (AROP being the best of the 4). So by the math, only 33% of the record is listenable.
We're it me I would have shortened ANTR by a minute or two, gotten rid of Wither, made TSF about half as long, gotten rid of TBOT and written 4 or 5 more 3-6 minute songs. But that's just me ;D
Nuh uh. Your maths is flawed
Observe
BC&SL is 75 minutes long. ANTR and TCoT total roughly 35 minutes in length. That equates to 46.6% of the album.
This moment of pedanticism was brought to you by the number bore and some letters.
Yeah, but his opinion is wrong.
What to say about THAT?... You're not getting at all the IMO part, are you?... Let's put it this way: I clearly have expressed my thoughts.. Thus, I can't be wrong.. Only if I'd have said "that's the general opinion", only then it could be wrong...
Relax ToT, he was obviously joking (it was actually pretty funny ;D).
Look, in a few days i'll be able to post my review, and it'll answer just about all the questions you people have.
Wat.
Surrounded is heavenly. Fuck what my friends would think, some of them would probably find it heavenly too.
ToT-147 I think that you are in the minority and nothing is wrong with that it just shocks most fans on this board.It really shouldn't though. Pretty much every possible opinion has been posted here at some point, so anyone who is still shocked by someone having a different opinion to them or even to the majority is really just being childish.
ToT-147 I think that you are in the minority and nothing is wrong with that it just shocks most fans on this board.It really shouldn't though. Pretty much every possible opinion has been posted here at some point, so anyone who is still shocked by someone having a different opinion to them or even to the majority is really just being childish.
ToT-147 I think that you are in the minority and nothing is wrong with that it just shocks most fans on this board.It really shouldn't though. Pretty much every possible opinion has been posted here at some point, so anyone who is still shocked by someone having a different opinion to them or even to the majority is really just being childish.
But Surrounded is awesome.
See? Never heard someone sayin LTL is weak ;D Didn't think there was a lot of I&W detractors :)
You mean Mangini?Nah, he's been through the trial period, he's cool.
See? Never heard someone sayin LTL is weak ;D Didn't think there was a lot of I&W detractors :)
100% of I&W detractors are ones that got into the band recently.
Not even slightly true! The bloke who got me into Dream Theater hated Images and Words, and I've been a fan for almost ten years now, so we're talking roughly half a career ago.See? Never heard someone sayin LTL is weak ;D Didn't think there was a lot of I&W detractors :)
100% of I&W detractors are ones that got into the band recently.
See? Never heard someone sayin LTL is weak ;D Didn't think there was a lot of I&W detractors :)
100% of I&W detractors are ones that got into the band recently.
See? Never heard someone sayin LTL is weak ;D Didn't think there was a lot of I&W detractors :)
100% of I&W detractors are ones that got into the band recently.
Other way round! He's saying everyone who hates Images and Words is a new fan, not that every new fan hates Images and Words.See? Never heard someone sayin LTL is weak ;D Didn't think there was a lot of I&W detractors :)
100% of I&W detractors are ones that got into the band recently.
Untrue. I've only been a fan a few months and IAW is one of my favorite albums of all time.
Other way round! He's saying everyone who hates Images and Words is a new fan, not that every new fan hates Images and Words.100% of I&W detractors are ones that got into the band recently.
Untrue. I've only been a fan a few months and IAW is one of my favorite albums of all time.
It's nonsense either way, but reverse-nonsense!
Is there a notion then that I&W has dated? Or is it just because it sounds so different to their more recent output?
I'd argue against it sounding dated, certainly in a negative way. I think it has a timeless element to it.
But if it sounds dated at all sonically there can only be one reason. Impossibru triggured drumzzz
I think it sounds a bit dated, and a product of its era, so I can fully understand if people don't like that sound.
I think it sounds a bit dated, and a product of its era, so I can fully understand if people don't like that sound.
It definitely sounds like the era it was released, but I think that's what I love about it. I'm not sure I'd like it so much if it was released now. It has a certain charm to it.
I have been a long time fan, and was introduced to the band just after Awake was released, and was given I&W and Awake at the same time to listen to. I didn't mind I&W, but loved Awake - and that still holds true. I&W is okay to me, and I like it a lot from Metropolis onwards - and, it is probably where I fell in love with Jimmy LB'S voice - but I always felt, and still feel, it is somewhat overrated, and thats from a long time fan. I still find some parts of it kinda corny and 'meh', and the sax in Another Day just kills the song and makes me cringe, detracting from what could have been a much better song in my mind. I found Awake was just more daring, menacing and cohesive, and i far preferred it, and still do - containing some of my very faves to this day..
I whole heartedly agree with that.Haha, "factually wrong in my opinion".. I like that :tup
But your opinion about Metropolis is factually wrong in my opinion
I think it sounds a bit dated, and a product of its era, so I can fully understand if people don't like that sound.
It definitely sounds like the era it was released, but I think that's what I love about it. I'm not sure I'd like it so much if it was released now. It has a certain charm to it.
Not really a question directed towards anyone that has listened to the album already, but do we know if Mangini will be writing any lyrics for this album?
Not really a question directed towards anyone that has listened to the album already, but do we know if Mangini will be writing any lyrics for this album?
Nope, sorry.
Not really a question directed towards anyone that has listened to the album already, but do we know if Mangini will be writing any lyrics for this album?
Nope, sorry.
Not really a question directed towards anyone that has listened to the album already, but do we know if Mangini will be writing any lyrics for this album?
Nope, sorry.
Wait!.. How do you know that?...
Do you know who are the lyric writers on the album?...
'Cause that would it be a nice one...
Interesting information about the lyrical content of the album. Also revealed is that JMX wrote "Surrender to Reason," and James did not write any lyrics this time around.I stand corrected.
James confirmed in his recent interview that he decided to step back from the lyric-writing job for this album because of his heavy involvement with writing the words for his studio album.
Wish JM would write more lyrics. Maybe it's just a coincidence, but the songs he writes lyrics too tend to be better than the average DT tune.
I would really love to see some JR lyrics in DT. I know he hasn't written much in the way of lyrics, but his lyrics on Rhythm of Time were nice, and especially on Tear Before the Rain.
I don't know about Jordan writing DT lyrics... I have one of his albums where he sings something like "I talk to the wind, but the wind does not hear"... :tdwn
I would really love to see some JR lyrics in DT. I know he hasn't written much in the way of lyrics, but his lyrics on Rhythm of Time were nice, and especially on Tear Before the Rain.I just discovered this album, had no idea he ever wrote lyrics. Is that him singing on the alt mixes of Beyond Tomorrow and Tear Before The Rain?
I don't know about Jordan writing DT lyrics... I have one of his albums where he sings something like "I talk to the wind, but the wind does not hear"... :tdwnSo basically he likes King Crimson a lot?
I don't know about Jordan writing DT lyrics... I have one of his albums where he sings something like "I talk to the wind, but the wind does not hear"... :tdwn
the enemy inside is a very good representation of the lyrics on the album...
the enemy inside is a very good representation of the lyrics on the album...So pretty good? I'm not sure how you feel about them but I think they describe PTSD pretty well and are not cheesy.
the enemy inside is a very good representation of the lyrics on the album...So pretty good? I'm not sure how you feel about them but I think they describe PTSD pretty well and are not cheesy.
Not sure about Beyond Tomorrow, but Tear Before the Rain was Kip Winger.I would really love to see some JR lyrics in DT. I know he hasn't written much in the way of lyrics, but his lyrics on Rhythm of Time were nice, and especially on Tear Before the Rain.I just discovered this album, had no idea he ever wrote lyrics. Is that him singing on the alt mixes of Beyond Tomorrow and Tear Before The Rain?
Not sure about Beyond Tomorrow, but Tear Before the Rain was Kip Winger.I would really love to see some JR lyrics in DT. I know he hasn't written much in the way of lyrics, but his lyrics on Rhythm of Time were nice, and especially on Tear Before the Rain.I just discovered this album, had no idea he ever wrote lyrics. Is that him singing on the alt mixes of Beyond Tomorrow and Tear Before The Rain?
James confirmed in his recent interview that he decided to step back from the lyric-writing job for this album because of his heavy involvement with writing the words for his studio album.
He wrote lyric-writing, so I guess he means lyric-writing.
On the album itself, yeah, but I think the alt mixes were indeed JR, can't remember though.Not sure about Beyond Tomorrow, but Tear Before the Rain was Kip Winger.I would really love to see some JR lyrics in DT. I know he hasn't written much in the way of lyrics, but his lyrics on Rhythm of Time were nice, and especially on Tear Before the Rain.I just discovered this album, had no idea he ever wrote lyrics. Is that him singing on the alt mixes of Beyond Tomorrow and Tear Before The Rain?
"8:47:39 PM: Animated: Hey Jordan, I have a question I've been asking myself ever since you joined Dream Theater. Will you ever contribute lyrically on a DT album? If not, is it because the band won't let you or are you simply not interested in writing lyrics?This is incredibly irresponsible of me... but "DT police" was such a curiously familiar phrase, so I googled it. And it's one he used during the ADToE sessions. I didn't realise it went back as far as 2003.
8:48:16 PM: JordanR: I have an interest in writing lyrics
8:48:22 PM: JordanR: It's an interesting thing actually
8:48:53 PM: JordanR: I feel that the band is very established in there ways and that would be a very new elelment so I do not feel an urgent need to bring lyrics in
8:49:17 PM: JordanR: One day I might write some though and just try my luck with the DT police and see if they like them!!"
Yea I meant the alt mixes, not the actual album. The alt mixes are definitely not Kip Winger.On the album itself, yeah, but I think the alt mixes were indeed JR, can't remember though.Not sure about Beyond Tomorrow, but Tear Before the Rain was Kip Winger.I would really love to see some JR lyrics in DT. I know he hasn't written much in the way of lyrics, but his lyrics on Rhythm of Time were nice, and especially on Tear Before the Rain.I just discovered this album, had no idea he ever wrote lyrics. Is that him singing on the alt mixes of Beyond Tomorrow and Tear Before The Rain?
I'm willing to speculate that the door is open for Jordan or Mike Mangini to write lyrics if ever they submit any and they are seen as being good by the rest of the band. This is supported by the fact that in the interview where JLB said he did not write any lyrics, he also quotes John Petrucci as saying "you got to write a couple, man!" This is encouraging to me about the lyrics situation in Petrucci-led DT, because it seems like though JP seems to really enjoy writing lyrics, he has nothing against the other members of the band also writing some and in fact encouraged James having more of a voice in the lyrics.
I also will speculate, though, that we are unlikely to see a JR or MM lyrical contribution. It's possible, but I think Jordan would have gone for it by now if he was going to, and while Mike could, I suppose, he hasn't really mentioned anything about having an interest in it. I think for the foreseeable future, the vast majority of lyrics will continue to be Petrucci's with one song per album by Myung and one or two on most albums from LaBrie.
But who would JR ask permission to now? I think that back in '03 the struggle (if any) would've been with MP, but he's no longer in the band. I don't think JP would say "no" to another member of the band writing lyrics, since that brings up something new to the band and takes some work off his shoulders.
I think that him taking a step back from the lyric writing process due to him having recently written a lot of lyrics for his solo album is not a sign of weakness or that he's not feeling involved or motivated enough. On the contrary I think it shows that he really cares about the material and that he decided to do what he thinks is best for the album.
I think so, I haven't heard otherwise.
Even though I haven't heard The Enemy Inside, I'm pretty sure I'd disagree.So you haven't seen TEI's lyric video yet? It features DT in Mordor, fighting a troll. After slaying the monster, a dragon comes out, DT looks at each other, and the video ends with a scene that reminds me of a Manowar cover. It's power metal as fck.
Nope, I have neither seen nor heard it.Even though I haven't heard The Enemy Inside, I'm pretty sure I'd disagree.So you haven't seen TEI's lyric video yet? It features DT in Mordor, fighting a troll. After slaying the monster, a dragon comes out, DT looks at each other, and the video ends with a scene that reminds me of a Manowar cover. It's power metal as fck.
:rollinEven though I haven't heard The Enemy Inside, I'm pretty sure I'd disagree.So you haven't seen TEI's lyric video yet? It features DT in Mordor, fighting a troll. After slaying the monster, a dragon comes out, DT looks at each other, and the video ends with a scene that reminds me of a Manowar cover. It's power metal as fck.
The melodies in both songs are power metal inspired to my ears. Also the held power chords in the chorus of BITS are a frequently used power metal guitar technique.
I think so, I haven't heard otherwise.
:lol :rollin :lolEven though I haven't heard The Enemy Inside, I'm pretty sure I'd disagree.So you haven't seen TEI's lyric video yet? It features DT in Mordor, fighting a troll. After slaying the monster, a dragon comes out, DT looks at each other, and the video ends with a scene that reminds me of a Manowar cover. It's power metal as fck.
The melodies in both songs are power metal inspired to my ears. Also the held power chords in the chorus of BITS are a frequently used power metal guitar technique.
Seriously? Held power chords are a power metal influence according to you? Come on.
Ok, We'll agree to disagree.
So, this new DT album.... :metal
U: Jag inser att det är irriterande för skapande musiker att hela tiden jämföras med andra artister och band. Jag refererar dock själv flera gånger i min recension av "Waiting..." till Dream Theater. Vad tycker ni om den liknelsen? Finns det något fog för jämförelser i ert tycke?From https://www.tartareandesire.com/urkraft/intervjuer/seventhwonder.php
A: "Images and Words" är enligt mig tveklöst den viktigaste och bästa platta som släppts inom genren vi kallar prog-metall idag. Den satte normen för allt. Att jämföras med den är en ren ära och jag kan bara tacka och bocka åt ett dylikt omdöme. Faktum är att jag sällan blir irriterad av något sådant. Hela människan fungerar ju genom generaliseringar och referenser - självklart måste det även vara tillåtet inom musiken. Däremot håller man ju inte alltid med det som skrivs och det kan ju vara irriterande, men vilket mynt saknar två sidor?
U: Finns det några artister ni/du skulle säga ha influerat er musik på ett påtagligt sätt?
A: Visst! Grunden har vi ju från våra gamla hjältar som Maiden, Europe, Helloween, Mr. Big etc och det progressiva kommer ju mycket från Dream Theater och Symphony X, tveklöst.
Ok, We'll agree to disagree.
So, this new DT album.... :metal
No, we must continue to argue! :P
Personal attack. Reported.:implode:
The melodies in both songs are power metal inspired to my ears. Also the held power chords in the chorus of BITS are a frequently used power metal guitar technique.
Seriously? Held power chords are a power metal influence according to you? Come on.
Yes. It's a defining PM rhythm guitar technique. Usually one chord per bar.
What i mean is that both in ADTOE and the 2 new songs, he is playing odd time signatures but he is playing in a pretty straightforward way, is there any parts where he changes the feel while the rest of the band is playing over the same rhythm?Along For The Ride's outro, I guess?
There is are definite power metal elements in LNF, and in the very occasional older DT tune as well. It's not overbearing though, and rare.