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General => Reviews => Topic started by: Perpetual Change on July 23, 2009, 08:52:23 AM

Title: [Movie] Watchmen
Post by: Perpetual Change on July 23, 2009, 08:52:23 AM
So Watchmen is out on DVD. I'm guessing people who skipped it in theaters (thanks to the critics) are going to be wondering if it's worth a rental soon. Short answer? Yes. Here's my review.

"The Dark Knight" this is not, though it's easy to understand the predicament of "Watchmen." For most movie-goers, the ultra-serious trailer that appeared before "The Dark Knight" was a first exposure. The commercials that soon hit airwaves weren't much different. What the advertising for "Watchmen" wasn't able to do was explain to people that, unlike "The Dark Knight", "Watchmen" is VERY much a comic book movie, and a parody of one at that. Understandably, many viewers left theaters that night scratching their heads, wondering what exactly it was they'd just spent the last three hours sitting through.

Snyder executes Moore's work almost flawlessly. Aside from the ending (which, BTW, is better than the comic book's disappointing one), "Watchmen" easily stands as one of the most accurately depicted comic book movies ever. The few omissions leave some viewers out in the cold- but Snyder is a genius at putting emphasis where it counts. A video that plays in the beginning under Bob Dylan's "The Times They Are A'Changing" serves as both a credit roll and a history lesson for those not already familiar with the story's alternate setting. Snyder has also put Moore's political themes at the forefront: there's more Nixon scenes, as some well as some humorous and speculative cameos from the likes of Ronald Reagan, Fidel Castro, and Pat Buchanan.

And yet, the film is almost too short- even three hour long director's cut. As the scenes of the film progresses faithfully to the chapters of the book, with the storytelling focusing on one or maybe two characters at a time and their paths intertwining closer to the end, one gets the impression that Watchmen would have done much better as an eleven or twelve episode mini-series. But then, we wouldn't have the high-budget special effects and choreography that we do now, and those are two aspects of the movie that are worth noting because they're definitely top-notch.

The liberal intellegensia hate this movie, as their press has made quite clear, but that's because they haven't done their homework. Like so many viewers, critics have not been able to pinpoint its place as a parody. Viewers who expect Watchmen is some super serious courtroom drama with masked adventurers playing polarized symbolizations of things like 'law and order' or 'chaos'- that is, people who expect they're getting something like "The Dark Knight"- should approach the movie with more of an open mind. Those who accept it for what it is- a politically fueled dark comic book 'parody' with plenty of serious points as well as laughs- will like the film quite a bit more.

Final Score: 4.5/5; A-
Title: Re: [Movie] Watchmen
Post by: staveoffzombies on July 23, 2009, 04:06:19 PM
Good review.  I thought the movie was fantastically well-made, but it's not for everyone I guess.
Title: Re: [Movie] Watchmen
Post by: toao on July 23, 2009, 04:49:48 PM
I thought it was well worth the watch, I really enjoyed all of it!
Title: Re: [Movie] Watchmen
Post by: Dimitrius on July 24, 2009, 06:54:02 PM
I loooooooooooveeee this movie, just as I love the graphic novel, but I don't think the ending to the novel is disappointing at all, but I like the movie one better and, honestly, doing the whole alien thing for the movie it would've just destroyed it!

Title: Re: [Movie] Watchmen
Post by: orcus116 on July 26, 2009, 07:15:18 PM
The main thing that irked me was the way they handled Ozymandias. In the graphic novel he is depicted as an athlete, incredibly intelligent and essentially the ultimate male. That was a huge part of his character. He was probably the only huge miscast of the movie as he ended up very feminine and not all that menacing. Not forgivable at all considering how important a character he was to the story.

The music choices were a little strange too. "99 Red Balloons" was embarrassing to sit through and "All Along The Watchtower" was strange. They also used the wrong version of Hallelujah. Jeff Buckley's would've been 100 times more relevant.
Title: Re: [Movie] Watchmen
Post by: Dimitrius on July 26, 2009, 07:25:24 PM
There was another thing about Ozymandias that irked me, in the novel you believe he's doing the right thing in his mind, without thinking he's essentially a villain. In the movie you know from the first time he appears he's a bad guy.

I mean look at his reactions after the squid explodes in the novel, he's genuinely happy, and on the movie he looks like a mad scientist.
Title: Re: [Movie] Watchmen
Post by: orcus116 on July 26, 2009, 07:32:34 PM
Yes, that exactly. That first thing you mentioned is partly why the ending works so well in both the novel and the movie.
Title: Re: [Movie] Watchmen
Post by: Perpetual Change on July 26, 2009, 07:44:42 PM
I didn't make note of this in my review, but I found the music transitions as well as the dialogue a lot less jarring at home than in the Theaters. Probably because no one in my house was laughing, unlike the theater crowd.
Title: Re: [Movie] Watchmen
Post by: Dimitrius on July 26, 2009, 07:47:54 PM
I actually thought some of the music selections was spot on, like The Sound of Silence in the cemetery scene and Hallelujah in Archie scene. A lot of people were laughing at that in the theaters, but it goes perfect with what Dan was going through.


And the opening credits are easily the best opening credits to a movie I've ever seen.
Title: Re: [Movie] Watchmen
Post by: ReaPsTA on July 26, 2009, 09:59:36 PM
I actually thought some of the music selections was spot on, like The Sound of Silence in the cemetery scene and Hallelujah in Archie scene. A lot of people were laughing at that in the theaters, but it goes perfect with what Dan was going through.

And the opening credits are easily the best opening credits to a movie I've ever seen.

Sound of Silence was an odd choice but I kind of liked it. Everything about the Owl Ship sex scene was awful, especially relative to how well it was done in the comic. Dave Gibbons did it with taste and a sense of humor while still being sexy. The movie version is really intense soft-core porn.

Watchtower makes sense because Moore quoted it at the end of the chapter where Night Owl and Rorschach approach Ozy's fortress. The lyrics are perfect, but your mileage might vary when it comes to the music. As a song it's great, but I dunno how well it fits into that scene.
Title: Re: [Movie] Watchmen
Post by: Scurvy!Dreams on July 27, 2009, 01:57:30 AM
I don't know, I think the movie sex scene was pretty humorous too.

And what's wrong with 99 Red Balloons? That's a fantastic song.
Title: Re: [Movie] Watchmen
Post by: XJDenton on July 27, 2009, 06:25:46 AM
I agree that Ozymandias was probably the weakest part of the movie. The music choices didnt irk me too much but sometimes they felt as if they'd just been laid on top rather than mixed in if that makes sense.
Title: Re: [Movie] Watchmen
Post by: orcus116 on July 27, 2009, 09:31:09 AM
I don't know, I think the movie sex scene was pretty humorous too.

And what's wrong with 99 Red Balloons? That's a fantastic song.

Didn't fit the scene at all and the fact that they played through the entire song made the whole scene very distracting. I might need to check the comic again but I'm pretty sure that wasn't one of the musical cues like Watchtower was.
Title: Re: [Movie] Watchmen
Post by: RandalGraves on July 27, 2009, 09:56:48 AM
This may be blasphemy, but I prefer the version of Watchtower created for Battlestar . . .
Title: Re: [Movie] Watchmen
Post by: ariich on July 30, 2009, 04:51:23 PM
Really good review PC, I agree with pretty much everything.

I also agree with orcus that Ozy was not cast well. He just wasn't nearly charming enough and always seemed creepy, so it didn't seem a shock when he turned out to be the villain (well, villain-ish!)

However, I thought the soundtrack was awesome. The choice of Hallelujah was pretty hilarious, but apart from that everything was 1) a good choice of song, and 2) fit well with what was happening.

I can't wait to see the director's cut, but I have no idea when or even if it's coming out in the UK, which is really lame.
Title: Re: [Movie] Watchmen
Post by: AcidLameLTE on July 30, 2009, 04:54:06 PM
I can't wait to see the director's cut, but I have no idea when or even if it's coming out in the UK, which is really lame.
I just ordered it on blu-ray from America. What confuses me most is that it's region free SO WHY ISN'T IT OUT IN THE UK YET?
Title: Re: [Movie] Watchmen
Post by: Dimitrius on July 30, 2009, 07:16:16 PM
Because you're silly Brits.
Title: Re: [Movie] Watchmen
Post by: antigoon on July 31, 2009, 12:39:39 AM
and you don't brush your teeth enough

:neverusethis:
Title: Re: [Movie] Watchmen
Post by: AcidLameLTE on July 31, 2009, 01:54:59 AM
AT LEAST WE'RE NOT OBESE
Title: Re: [Movie] Watchmen
Post by: Dimitrius on July 31, 2009, 10:43:04 AM
But you're closer to the French and me or the Americans, instant fail!
Title: Re: [Movie] Watchmen
Post by: AcidLameLTE on July 31, 2009, 10:43:49 AM
But you're closer to Canada than me...and Nick.
Title: Re: [Movie] Watchmen
Post by: Dimitrius on July 31, 2009, 10:46:28 AM
But you're closer to Canada than me...and Nick.
Nick is closer to Canada than me, Nick does not fail as hard as the French, though.
Title: Re: [Movie] Watchmen
Post by: AcidLameLTE on July 31, 2009, 10:48:05 AM
Hef and bosk own France though so it must be better now.
Title: Re: [Movie] Watchmen
Post by: Dimitrius on July 31, 2009, 10:49:01 AM
I heard it still doesn't have military victory.
Title: Re: [Movie] Watchmen
Post by: AcidLameLTE on July 31, 2009, 10:49:32 AM
Yeah because all the French are dead.
Title: Re: [Movie] Watchmen
Post by: ariich on July 31, 2009, 05:08:57 PM
I can't wait to see the director's cut, but I have no idea when or even if it's coming out in the UK, which is really lame.
I just ordered it on blu-ray from America. What confuses me most is that it's region free SO WHY ISN'T IT OUT IN THE UK YET?
Ahhhh, is Bluray entirely region free?! We only got a player recently and I only have one disc so far, so am not really up to date with all this stuff.
Title: Re: [Movie] Watchmen
Post by: AcidLameLTE on July 31, 2009, 06:03:13 PM
Not entirely but most blu-rays are (there's only 3 regions with blu-ray: A, B and C, instead of 4 trillion ones with DVD).

This site is good for checking:

https://www.blu-ray.com/

It's just a lot easier to make blu-rays region free now that everyone uses the same amount of lines per screen (720/1080i/1080p).
Title: Re: [Movie] Watchmen
Post by: Ouda on August 01, 2009, 03:55:40 PM
But you're closer to Canada than me...and Nick.

Being closer to Canada is the best thing you can do, next to being closer to Poland. FRENCH SUCKS!!!! ENGLISH ENGLISH ENGLISH!!!
Title: Re: [Movie] Watchmen
Post by: ariich on August 02, 2009, 05:41:28 AM
Not entirely but most blu-rays are (there's only 3 regions with blu-ray: A, B and C, instead of 4 trillion ones with DVD).

This site is good for checking:

https://www.blu-ray.com/

It's just a lot easier to make blu-rays region free now that everyone uses the same amount of lines per screen (720/1080i/1080p).
Yeah found another site that tests them all, looks like it's pretty easy to find anything with a simple google search.

Ordered Watchmen :D

Did you use amazon? I ordered it through the US amazon, and even with the middle shipping option (8-16 days rather than 18-32 days) it comes to under £20, which is how much the regular version costs in stores, and much cheaper than ordering the import through amazon UK, which was £27 I think.
Title: Re: [Movie] Watchmen
Post by: AcidLameLTE on August 02, 2009, 05:42:42 AM
I got it on Ebay for £17 (including postage).
Title: Re: [Movie] Watchmen
Post by: Dimitrius on August 02, 2009, 11:48:52 AM
Arrich just got pwned.
Title: Re: [Movie] Watchmen
Post by: ariich on August 02, 2009, 12:09:57 PM
Arrich just got pwned.
Meh, £2 difference. And I could have got it for less and waited longer, but I want it sooner :P
Title: Re: [Movie] Watchmen
Post by: Dimitrius on August 02, 2009, 12:58:36 PM
Arrich just got pwned.
Meh, £2 difference. And I could have got it for less and waited longer, but I want it sooner :P
Ariich didn't get that pwned.
Title: Re: [Movie] Watchmen
Post by: ariich on August 02, 2009, 01:08:10 PM
:lol :tup

Although at least I know how to spell my username :P
Title: Re: [Movie] Watchmen
Post by: Dimitrius on August 02, 2009, 01:18:10 PM
For some reason I've always write a double "r" instead of "i".

Title: Re: [Movie] Watchmen
Post by: ariich on August 02, 2009, 03:37:58 PM
For some reason I've always write a double "r" instead of "i".


That is why you fail.
Title: Re: [Movie] Watchmen
Post by: Dimitrius on August 02, 2009, 03:51:46 PM
No, it's called dyslexia.

 :P
Title: Re: [Movie] Watchmen
Post by: Jamariquay on August 02, 2009, 06:50:40 PM
No, it's called dyslexia.

 :P

That's lesdyxia.


I enjoyed Watchmen for what it was, but I still maintain that doing a direct literal adaptation of the book (which Snyder did very well for the most part) is not the best way to go about it. It was a faithful adaptation yes; that does not necessarily translate into "good movie." What we got was an overlong, poorly paced, tonally confusing monster of a movie with, granted, quite a few awesome moments and unfortunately, more than a few moments that fell flat.

Most egregiously, I hated what they did with Ozymandias. It was way too obvious that he was supposed to be the "villain" in the movie, whereas in the book Moore went for a much more nuanced approach. Snyder by contrast had Ozymandias come across as almost cartoonishly supervillainesque. Bleah. Also, during Ozymandias' "35 minutes ago" speech, I felt nothing. Not shock, not horror.... nothing. Hell, I almost missed it, it was so nonchalantly delivered. Nonchalance isn't necessarily a bad thing, but how they framed it in the book really hit home the horror of What Had Just Happened.

On the other hand, I think Ozymandias' master plan itself worked much better in the movie. Giant Cthulu-esque squid thing? Sure, works great in the comic. Xanatos-esque plot to harness Manhattan's destructive power and at once alienate him from the human race? Y'know, I hate to say it, but it works. It works damn well. And you know what? This is exactly the kind of adaptation that I wish Snyder had done more of: Rather than literally adapting the source material, he made a clear shift away from the book in favor of something that would work better on the big screen, and it worked fine.

(And yes, you could argue that the Ozymandias-tonal-shift thing was another example of Snyder changing aspects of the book to better fit the film; the big difference here is that the Ozymandias thing didn't work for me at all, whereas the changes to the nature of his plan did. Taking risks is all well and good, but its up to you to actually make them, yknow, work).

As I said, I did enjoy the movie for what it was. But, "what it was" in this case is more of a Greatest Hits of the book, rather than a well-crafted film that stands on its own merits.
Title: Re: [Movie] Watchmen
Post by: ReaPsTA on August 02, 2009, 09:57:29 PM
Jamariquay nailed it better than I ever have.

You know another movie-only scene that works really well? When Rorscach is getting his clothes from within the prison (a good move in general to compress the plot), and he sees the psychologist. He puts on his mask and says "Your turn doctor. Tell me! What do you see?" It says so much about their relationship in so little time.  Rorsach's force of will, the doctor's lack of really understanding. Snyder needed to find emotional themes in the book like that and write more new scenes to express those themes succinctly, then in turn find more shit to cut out of the movie adaption.

In terms of things that work great in the comic but didn't translate well on film, Manhattan on Mars is a big one. I was reading that on the toilet and felt like someone had slipped me a pot brownie. It's so trippy and surreal. In the film it just... doesn't... work. I'd have to rewatch it to really know why.

One big thing Synder in my mind just got completely wrong was amping up the violence. The stylized fight sequences hurt the premise of the movie (guys without super powers in costumes) when they're performing martial arts far beyond human capacity. Even Ozy was taken too far in this regard. Also, in a movie partially about the value of human life, it hurts that idea when Dan and Laurie are killing people left and right.

It's not like this shouldn't have been done at all. The prison breakout needed to be a legit action set piece. I thought making the assassination attempt on Ozy more exciting was a good idea, though the execution wasn't so great. But why did saving the people from the fire need to be an action sequence? Not only was tons of great dialog lost, but it felt untruthful.

The biggest failing of Watchmen as a film though, and I say this over and over again, is the lack of a cinematic story. A comic can juggle multiple characters and hold them together with broad ideas and character themes. In a movie, it just doesn't work. I don't think you literally need a single protagonist whose eyes you see the movie through who the whole movie centers around. But there needs to be some element of that, and the movie didn't have that.

From what I can tell, the movie seems to center the story around Manhattan. It's been a while since I saw it, but that was the general impression I got based on how it was constructed. Huge mistake. Aside from his lack of screen time, a big part of his character is his lack of humanity, something that's crucial for a main character.

The main character in the movie really should have been Dan/Night Owl. He has a distinct emotional and character arc that carries through the film. Retired from the superhero business through a lack of will. Finds through his adventures that there IS a reason they put on the costumes, goes to fight Ozy, and looses. The new ending even helps this arc out by letting him see Rorsach die, and then unleashing his rage on Ozy. But it just never felt like the story focused on him and put him at its center.

Just to end on a positive note, I thought the casting, except Matthew Goode as Ozy, was phenomenal. Even though you could certainly complain about Malin Ackerman, I still felt like I was seeing Silk Spectre II on the screen, which does say something. Even Matthew Goode did a good job with what he was given. The casting and direction was wrong, but I can't fault him as an actor.
Title: Re: [Movie] Watchmen
Post by: ariich on August 03, 2009, 04:44:28 PM
I disagree that the focus was on Manhattan, I thought there was a great balance between him, Dan and to some extent Rorschach (although obviously as a character he doesn't really develop).
Title: Re: [Movie] Watchmen
Post by: AcidLameLTE on August 07, 2009, 12:22:56 PM
ariich, has your copy of Watchmen arrived yet? Mine did today :biggrin:
Title: Re: [Movie] Watchmen
Post by: ariich on August 08, 2009, 11:04:09 AM
Nah not yet, but it has been shipped.

Everything seems to be taking a while to get here, probably due to London postal strikes. >:(
Title: Re: [Movie] Watchmen
Post by: XJDenton on August 08, 2009, 12:12:36 PM
Nah not yet, but it has been shipped.

Everything seems to be taking a while to get here, probably due to London postal strikes. >:(

There's a postal strike? Fair enough. Just as well nobody ever sends me anything.

:(
Title: Re: [Movie] Watchmen
Post by: ariich on August 08, 2009, 04:26:32 PM
Are you in London? I thought your usual hang out spots were Reading and Isle of Wight? :P

I believe it's only certain areas where there's a strike, or something like that.
Title: Re: [Movie] Watchmen
Post by: XJDenton on August 08, 2009, 08:29:53 PM
I've been in london for the last 10 months. I'm sure I mentioned it at some point
Title: Re: [Movie] Watchmen
Post by: ariich on August 09, 2009, 04:31:13 AM
:omg: HOW DID I NOT KNOW THIS? What is it that you're up to here? Continuing along the academic route?

Also, are you coming to PN at Wembley in October?
Title: Re: [Movie] Watchmen
Post by: XJDenton on August 09, 2009, 08:03:09 AM
Fraid so. :p I'm doing a PhD at imperial, I live in Ealing atm. As for PN, I'm not sure atm, as I have a wedding the same day and so I'd need to leave that early if I was going to see it.
Title: Re: [Movie] Watchmen
Post by: ariich on August 09, 2009, 10:20:19 AM
Ah brilliant, can't believe I didn't know that :lol Hope you do decide to come to PN, but would understand if not!

Anyway, enough hijacking of the thread.

My Watchmen bluray has not arrived yet >:(
Title: Re: [Movie] Watchmen
Post by: AcidLameLTE on August 09, 2009, 10:50:27 AM
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA. I WATCHED MINE THE OTHER DAY.
Title: Re: [Movie] Watchmen
Post by: ariich on August 09, 2009, 12:57:25 PM
SHUT UP I HACK YOU
Title: Re: [Movie] Watchmen
Post by: Dimitrius on August 10, 2009, 04:36:42 PM
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA. I WATCHED MINE THE OTHER DAY.
Have you seen the Maximum Movie Mode?
Title: Re: [Movie] Watchmen
Post by: ariich on August 14, 2009, 12:03:33 PM
YES! My copy finally arrived!

Although it has arrived earlier than the new Dear Hunter album, which I ordered through Amazon UK, and earlier than Watchmen. DAMN POSTAL STRIKE! >:(
Title: Re: [Movie] Watchmen
Post by: BlessedInsanity on August 27, 2009, 04:09:27 AM
I absolutely loved every single second of that movie. nuff said :P
Title: Re: [Movie] Watchmen
Post by: ThroughHerEyesDude6 on September 04, 2009, 04:02:11 AM
I enjoy hearing so much about DTF's thoughts on the movie. But I have one question from watching it for the first time yesterday:

Manhattan can potentially see into the future and know when something will happen, given no tachyon interference from explosions sending time askew. If he was helping Ozy with the implements of destruction in the movie, how could he not guess Ozy's plan? Isn't he always able to see what happens, save for explosions of that magnitude?

Otherwise I thought it was a decent movie. At first I was mad as hell that they didn't stick with the original alien ending, but after while I understood why they didn't keep it.
A. If it was kept, they would have had to keep the side story of the island with the missing journalist.
B. More emphasis would have to be put on Ozy's experimentation with new species (ie. Bubastis), which in turn could lead to more focus on Oxy's backstory, eating up more on screen time for the viewer, yadda yadda yadda people bored as hell.
C. It would cost a metric crapton to try and duplicate the monster special effects wise as well as makeup so on ans so forth.


And all of these are viable reasons to try and mix it up, I'm ok with that. However, there is also a good reason to keep it the way it was.
A. The existence of life beyond earth is chilling and scary to any human. to bring it to earth will cause a widespread fear causing fighting nations to come to peace with their 'now' minuscule quarrels.
It's a very real thing to learn that we are not alone. And I won't lie, I'd be scared shitless. Maybe more crapless than shitless. Shit takes effort. Crap just falls out. But you get my point...

Nonetheless, there are more reasons to go without it. Personally, I think the movie was alright. It's more of a "movie-I'll-watch-now-and-wait-a-few-months-to-rent-from-Blockbuster-again", but still decent.
Title: Re: [Movie] Watchmen
Post by: Dimitrius on September 04, 2009, 09:18:13 AM
Manhattan can potentially see into the future and know when something will happen, given no tachyon interference from explosions sending time askew. If he was helping Ozy with the implements of destruction in the movie, how could he not guess Ozy's plan? Isn't he always able to see what happens, save for explosions of that magnitude?

He didn't know because of the tachyons, he could see into the future, but in the future the tachyons were distorting his view so he didn't know Ozy was planning the explosion.
Title: Re: [Movie] Watchmen
Post by: Dark Master Of Sin on September 04, 2009, 09:32:01 AM
I own this movie and have watched it upwards of 20 times. Easily an amazing movie, but I still wish they had followed the comic better. But oh well, all and all both the comic and the movie are amazing.
Title: Re: [Movie] Watchmen
Post by: ReaPsTA on September 04, 2009, 02:06:26 PM
I own this movie and have watched it upwards of 20 times. Easily an amazing movie, but I still wish they had followed the comic better. But oh well, all and all both the comic and the movie are amazing.

I thought many of the movie's best parts involved taking liberties with the comic. Particularly the new ending.
Title: Re: [Movie] Watchmen
Post by: Dimitrius on November 25, 2009, 03:37:43 PM
Oh herro there


(https://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r215/dimitrius21/2009-11-25183559.jpg)
Title: Re: [Movie] Watchmen
Post by: Cyclopssss on July 03, 2013, 07:14:41 AM
I´m watching it at the moment, great movie so far.... :tup
Title: Re: [Movie] Watchmen
Post by: Full Speed on July 03, 2013, 11:14:02 AM
I've only seen it once, but I didn't really like it. I can't pinpoint why exactly, but to me it just felt like a soulless retread of the source material. I thought the only redeeming qualities it had were the intro credit sequence and Jackie Earle Haley's acting.
Title: Re: [Movie] Watchmen
Post by: Nick on July 03, 2013, 01:12:57 PM
I'm watching a thread about Watchmen which is a film about watching Watchmen.